1 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:02:43pm

Gonna share the inevitable love letters coming your way?

2 Big Steve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:02:48pm

the world is truly getting smaller

3 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:03:05pm

I saw a video of Bush receiving a medal from the king. Did he ever really bow?

4 Big Steve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:03:39pm

but they forgot to use the word "gadfly" when describing you...

5 Big Steve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:04:26pm

re: #3 coquimbojoe

I saw a video of Bush receiving a medal from the king. Did he ever really bow?

Ok slowly back out of the room.....go back three days.....and catch up on this site.

6 Racer X  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:04:46pm

Obama bowed.

Bush leaned over to accept a medal. Same with Cheney.

7 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:04:54pm

good on you charles!

8 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:05:09pm

Wow, nice hat tip, Charles. Not to mention the nod for Rathergate.

Hello, readers of HispanicBusiness.com. Welcome!

9 Jimash  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:06:02pm

re: #3 coquimbojoe

No. But he kissed and held hands. So the basic point is made.
And I guess they don't just hand out those King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit awards to anybody. You have to be on the list.

10 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:06:05pm

Check out the left sidebar. It's the most popular story on their site.

11 CynicalConservative  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:06:22pm

Sorry to be O/T so early. Single Muslim Advertising!?!?!?!?!? Right Sidebar.

12 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:06:38pm

Single Muslim dot com? I'm sure they really want their banner ads running here./

13 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:06:39pm

I see that I can join singlemuslim.com for free.

14 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:06:41pm

re: #6 Racer X

Obama bowed.

Bush leaned over to accept a medal. Same with Cheney.

No, Bush bowed to accept a medal.

And imagine the screaming if Barack Obama had been given a medal by King Abdullah.

15 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:07:16pm

re: #5 Big Steve

Ok slowly back out of the room.....go back three days.....and catch up on this site.

I was here. The article also says Bush was receiving a medal. Didn't read the whole thread, but I am pretty sure it wasn't the same. Anyways, I expect jackassery from Obama and don't really care what he does. Bush took a while before I expected the jackassery. His grew to be more asshattery if you wanna split hairs...

16 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:07:33pm

re: #6 Racer X

please,king abdullah has the chap stick of the last eight administrations(minimally)on his ass

17 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:07:45pm

re: #9 Jimash

No. But he kissed and held hands. So the basic point is made.
And I guess they don't just hand out those King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit awards to anybody. You have to be on the list.

Yeah I saw all that. Stomach still upset.

18 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:07:46pm

As a nation we kowtow too much to another nation that lacks basic human rights. They can start by breaking ground for a church and recognizing Israel fully.

19 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:07:59pm

The point being that it is absurd to be outraged at just Obama's deference to the Saudis when many American Presidents have been doing the same for a long time now.

20 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:08:04pm

re: #11 CynicalConservative

Sorry to be O/T so early. Single Muslim Advertising!?!?!?!?!? Right Sidebar.

And Arab Lounge at the top! WTF?

21 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:08:06pm

Uh oh. Quicksand in the middle of the road. It's a quagmire!

22 The Other Les  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:08:23pm

re: #14 Charles

No, Bush bowed to accept a medal.

And imagine the screaming if Barack Obama had been given a medal by King Abdullah.

I would shrug and say, "so what else is new?"

23 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:09:11pm

George W. Bush pandered to the Saudis throughout his entire presidency. If you don't think that's true, you're in denial.

And he was following a long line of presidents who pandered to the Saudis. Barack Obama's bow was the least offensive thing a US President has done.

24 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:09:23pm

If it wasn't for space jesus I'd have the lowest rated comment of the day. he's beating me by 50 dings.

25 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:09:24pm

I have to watch Bush bowing for myself. The video in this link isn't working for me.
Is there a link to the previous thread where I can find this video?

26 Jimash  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:10:12pm

I think it was that look of RUSHING to bow that bothered me. And maybe it was just the wrong time to do it.
He must really want one of them medals !

27 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:10:23pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout
Kilgore,what did you post now?...
oh yeah,bring back the space pope!

28 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:11:10pm

re: #23 Charles

George W. Bush pandered to the Saudis throughout his entire presidency. If you don't think that's true, you're in denial.

And he was following a long line of presidents who pandered to the Saudis. Barack Obama's bow was the least offensive thing a US President has done.

But the denials in Egypt.....

Maybe the bow was just ass kissing calisthenics, you know a warm up President do before getting in the sack with the Saudis...

29 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:11:33pm

Carpet bombing with hate mail from the unhinged to begin in 3... 2... 1...

30 Boxy_brown  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:11:34pm

Obama bowed

Bush Bowed

Carter gets on his knees...

31 Geepers  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:11:47pm

So are we trying to prove that Bush was just as bad as Obama, or that Obama is just as bad as Bush?

32 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:07pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

If it wasn't for space jesus I'd have the lowest rated comment of the day. he's beating me by 50 dings.

He has a talent. What did you do?

33 Racer X  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:08pm

re: #14 Charles

No, Bush bowed to accept a medal.

And imagine the screaming if Barack Obama had been given a medal by King Abdullah.

I get that Charles, I really do. Bush leaned over to have a medal put around his neck.

What Obama did was totally different. No medal. Clearly a display of reverence. I do not think Obama should be impeached over it. Ridiculed yes.

I agree with you completely that Bush and just about every president in the past 50 years has been sucking up to the Saudis. That is what needs to change.

Did I mention that I love Global Warming?

34 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:25pm

re: #25 LGoPs

I have to watch Bush bowing for myself. The video in this link isn't working for me.
Is there a link to the previous thread where I can find this video?

35 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:28pm

re: #23 Charles

OT: Just in case you were thinking of running with the Nesara thing you should know there are two Nesara groups, each claiming that the other is a crazy cult. At least one of them is crazy, probably both.

36 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:30pm

re: #31 Geepers

So are we trying to prove that Bush was just as bad as Obama, or that Obama is just as bad as Bush?

I'm not trying to prove anything.

37 WhiteRasta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:32pm

Well, the truth is an offense......but not a sin.

38 snowcrash  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:32pm

Obama did not bow. White House says Obama is a tall guy making a double handed handshake. Works for me. lol

39 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:38pm

re: #31 Geepers

That the whole thing is alot of adoe about nothing.

40 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:51pm

re: #31 Geepers

Just that disproportionate and/or hypocritical outrage is asinine.

41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:12:54pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Dude! What's the matter with you? You know you cannot speak of St. Palin in any way other than with glowing praise.
/

42 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:13:11pm

re: #27 Boondock St. Bender

It was a news story about Palin. Some people find news stories offensive.

43 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:13:25pm

As long as we don't develop our own energy resources, we all bow to the Saudis every time we put a nozzle into our car to fill it up.

44 Emerald  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:13:27pm

With all the real faults Obama has, why waste time and energy on something so unproductive?

45 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:13:28pm

re: #31 Geepers

So are we trying to prove that Bush was just as bad as Obama, or that Obama is just as bad as Bush?

I think we have to clearly understand the foolishness of all our leaders.

46 avanti  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:13:44pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

If it wasn't for space jesus I'd have the lowest rated comment of the day. he's beating me by 50 dings.

I can kick both your asses on a good day. Give me a AGW thread and I'll show you.:)

47 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:14:06pm

re: #41 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm hoping to get the Palin blogs to start a campaign to ban me from the internet.

48 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:14:14pm

re: #31 Geepers

So are we trying to prove that Bush was just as bad as Obama, or that Obama is just as bad as Bush?

*Ahem*

re: #19 Slumbering Behemoth

The point being that it is absurd to be outraged at just Obama's deference to the Saudis when many American Presidents have been doing the same for a long time now.

49 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:14:45pm
50 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:14:52pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

I'm hoping to get the Palin blogs to start a campaign to ban me from the internet.

We were putting together a fund to buy you some Ban Roll-on.....

51 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:14:58pm

Impeach my gas tank? IMPEACH MY GAS TANK?
And replace it with what? A windmill? Manufactured without oil?

/hamsters?

52 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:15:18pm

re: #31 Geepers

So are we trying to prove that Bush was just as bad as Obama, or that Obama is just as bad as Bush?

Or that CNN is just as bad as Fox.
Or that Beck is just as crazy as Olberman.
And on and on...

53 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:15:27pm

If a U.S. President announced we were going to stop being 'friendly' with the Sauds and rely only on domestic energy production, I don't think many people would be cheering.

54 Racer X  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:15:33pm

re: #43 jcm

As long as we don't develop our own energy resources, we all bow to the Saudis every time we put a nozzle into our car to fill it up.

Eggzactly!

55 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:15:39pm

re: #46 avanti

You won't get much of a fight out of me either way on global warming. I'm a skeptic but it's not a topic I'm informed enough to debate.

56 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:15:58pm

Lots of hate mail coming in today. I've been a bad, bad conservative.

57 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:16:07pm

re: #50 coquimbojoe

They still sell that stuff....very seventies (ban ,not deoderant in general)

58 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:16:09pm

Etta James is singing on dancing with the stars..
Gawd..I love that woman

59 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:16:15pm

re: #50 coquimbojoe

The stink is a fascist lie!

60 monkey den  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:16:25pm

re: #23 Charles

Barack Obama's bow was the least offensive thing a US President has done.

I appreciate, and agree with, your larger point Charles but I can't agree with this. Obama had the enthusiasm of Ozone from "Breakin."

61 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:16:38pm

re: #49 buzzsawmonkey

I found Obama's bow offensive.

I found Bush's bow offensive, too--but less so because I did not consider him to be as suspect as Obama as far as his overall plans for the country were concerned. If that makes me un-evenhanded, I can live with that.

In the meantime, Obama could have done a buck and wing for the Saudis, or groveled prostrate on the ground, and I wouldn't mind too much--if it did not seem as if he were hell-bent, with a Democratic Congressional majority at his back, on remaking the country into something entirely different from what it was and is.

Buzz, you express well the dissonance I find in myself over the two bowing episodes.

62 Arbalest  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:17:02pm
63 Joel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:17:13pm

Obama sucks. "America is not a Christian, Jewish or Muslim nation" - yeas thankfully there is no state religion but we are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values.

64 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:17:19pm

re: #56 Charles
Charles,have you been tipping sacred cows again?

65 CynicalConservative  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:17:52pm

re: #56 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in today. I've been a bad, bad conservative.

You know you're over the target when....

66 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:18:20pm

re: #34 pink freud

Thanks but I can't get youtube at work. I did go back and find the original thread on this subject and tried the video but it doesn't work. I don't think it's blocked because it processes with a wheel of death and then just stops........
I'll try it at home.

67 mike(in)savage  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:18:27pm
68 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:18:29pm

re: #44 Emerald

With all the real faults Obama has, why waste time and energy on something so unproductive?

We have serious national security concerns and a financial mess on our hands and people want to focus on this like it's the worst thing this man's done or waste time talking about his wife's clothes. Reality is there is a long history of deference to the Saudis and those bent out of shape about 0bama's bow are severely missing the target.

It's superficial and doesn't address any sort of solution to the underlying problem of middle east energy dependency, and it's just to score cheap political points.

69 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:18:42pm

Can't wait to get my self outfitted with one o' them fancy new Segway-Pumas made right her in the good ol' US of A.

70 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:18:50pm

re: #61 LGoPs

Buzz, you express well the dissonance I find in myself over the two bowing episodes.

A bow should NEVER be viewed out of context.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

71 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:18:51pm

re: #63 Joel

Obama sucks. "America is not a Christian, Jewish or Muslim nation" - yeas thankfully there is no state religion but we are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values.

Yes, and can anyone name one positive thing Islam has done for America?

72 Opinionated  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:18:59pm

re: #14 Charles

No, Bush bowed to accept a medal.

Every single Gold Medal Olympic winner I have ever seen at the award ceremony "bows" to get the medal placed around their neck.

Are we to consider them bowing to the presenter?

For the life of me I don't understand your point. Lets even concede that Bush bowed, is that a surprise? He also held hands and sword danced with them. Reason being that the Bush family are pretty much owned by the Saudis.

How that that absolve Obama? He has no generational business interests with the Saudis. He has something much worse- an innate respect for that prick of a King.

73 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:19:08pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

If it wasn't for space jesus I'd have the lowest rated comment of the day. he's beating me by 50 dings.

Want me to go help you get the lowest count?

74 Rancher  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:19:47pm

IIRC we blasted Bush, not for the bow that wasn't a bow, but certainly for the hug and kiss.

75 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:20:00pm

re: #63 Joel

Obama sucks. "America is not a Christian, Jewish or Muslim nation" - yeas thankfully there is no state religion but we are a nation founded partially on Judeo-Christian values.

FTFY, FOC

76 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:20:28pm
77 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:20:29pm

Where BDS meets ODS.

78 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:20:37pm

re: #69 Capitalist Tool

Can't wait to get my self outfitted with one o' them fancy new Segway-Pumas made right her in the good ol' US of A.

Don't worry..the segway 2 wheel electric car will be available next year..
For 120k you can get the car in black..

79 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:20:41pm

re: #49 buzzsawmonkey

I was also upset with Bush's hand holding with the Saudi King - I do make the distinction that hand holding and accepting a medal does not equate to submissiveness, which is what the Obama bow was - an act of submitting.

I'm not looking at impeaching over this - a verbal smack down is what is in order here. At the end of the day, both Republicans and Democrats are too willing to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed by the Saudis. That is the bigger issue.

80 Opinionated  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:20:42pm

re: #14 Charles

And imagine the screaming if Barack Obama had been given a medal by King Abdullah.

He's working on it.

81 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:21:12pm

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

I'm not beaming about the bows. I wish that both Bush and Obama were made of sterner stuff. Then I would not fear for the ship of state.

That was stern of you.

82 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:21:30pm
83 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:21:50pm

re: #81 LGoPs

That was stern of you.

Sorry....just realized I re-used your pun.
Shame on me. Bad punster....baaaad punster.

84 Aviator  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:22:02pm

HoosierHoops
Evening
Recovered from last night?

85 Joel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:22:15pm

re: #71 kansas

Not one.

Obama is going to give us appeasement abroad and eventually hyper inflation at home. It will take a two decades to recover from the financial mess he is leading us into.

86 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:22:18pm

Spencer is slamming LGF over at JW.

87 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:22:22pm

re: #71 kansas

Yes, and can anyone name one positive thing Islam has done for America?

Invented Zero?

88 itellu3times  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:22:43pm

I heard on the radio today "Obama was just picking up something he dropped."

89 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:22:54pm

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

I'm not beaming about the bows. I wish that both Bush and Obama were made of sterner stuff. Then I would not fear for the ship of state.

You used up too many good puns. You should be keeled for that......

90 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:22:56pm

re: #56 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in today. I've been a bad, bad conservative.

You strike me as a bad, bad Classical Liberal.

Take that as a compliment.

91 Aviator  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:23:10pm

re: #88 itellu3times

I heard on the radio today "Obama was just picking up something he dropped."

His pants?

92 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:23:45pm

re: #82 buzzsawmonkey

Well, the Ka'aba provided a model for Apple's New York store.

I had to Google that one.

93 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:23:48pm

When I meet a Japanese, I bow.
Big fucking deal.
Courtesy, observing a custom, who the fuck cares?

IT'S the "0"s politics, stupid!

94 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:23:54pm

re: #72 Opinionated

For the life of me I don't understand your point. Lets even concede that Bush bowed, is that a surprise? He also held hands and sword danced with them. Reason being that the Bush family are pretty much owned by the Saudis.

How that that absolve Obama? He has no generational business interests with the Saudis. He has something much worse- an innate respect for that prick of a King.

Obviously, you don't understand my point, because I haven't posted a single word that "absolves" Obama. In fact, I've made it very clear that I'm disgusted by every American president who kowtows to the religious apartheid kingdom.

And that means EVERY American president, because they all have, and until we get serious about alternative energy sources it's going to continue.

95 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:05pm

re: #50 coquimbojoe

JOE!

How have you been?

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:05pm

re: #72 Opinionated

It's not about absolving Obama, that's not the point. The point is that it's absurd to be outraged at just Obama's deference to the Saudis when many American Presidents have been doing the same for a long time now.

97 paradox42  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:12pm

re: #71 kansas

Yes, and can anyone name one positive thing Islam has done for America?

The Islamic Wing of the Metropolitan Museum of Art has some beautiful pieces in it. Other than that I'm drawing a blank.

98 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:16pm

re: #88 itellu3times

I heard on the radio today "Obama was just picking up something he dropped."

our status as a nation?

99 Racer X  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:18pm

I'm gonna bow out. A friend just showed up with some AGW Kool-Aid, and we're going to twist up a fatty to celebrate Obama's successful G20 Summit.

Peas out.

100 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:20pm

Nesara reminds me a lot of the Moonies.

101 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:27pm

I don't want to spend 4 years listening to sniping about how Obama is doing this or that.

I actually heard a local conservative talk show host jumping on Obama for stopping in Bagdad without telling us. How many fucking times did Bush stop in Bagdad as a surprise? The host never mentioned that the men seemed glad to see him, that the President is doing right by acknowledging the troops, that it was good for the troops.

He just kept ragging on Obama about doing it period, what in gods name is Obama thinking, stopping to see the troops, he was so against the war.

Bullshit (and I bet we get a lot of it. ODS big time).

102 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:35pm
103 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:24:49pm

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

I'm not beaming about the bows. I wish that both Bush and Obama were made of sterner stuff. Then I would not fear for the ship of state.

I've a sinking feeling that you're right.

104 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:25:08pm

re: #87 Capitalist Tool

Invented Zero?

Well, that would be neither positive or negative.

105 Jimash  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:25:22pm

re: #87 Capitalist Tool

Invented Zero?

Coffee.
Scimitar
Flying Carpet. ( Which would be in full production at bargain prices had we not invaded Iraq)/////////

106 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:25:42pm

re: #84 Aviator

HoosierHoops
Evening
Recovered from last night?

I seriously wanted to stay in bed today..No more Men's College Hoops.
Thank gawd for baseball season..To make matters worse..Obama picked the winner! I'm standing on the edge ready to jump!
/not really..It's too dang cold outside

107 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:25:51pm

re: #86 Irish Rose

Pathetic.

108 itellu3times  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:26:07pm

Philippine fisherman catch and eat a megamouth shark

A MEGAMOUTH shark, one of the world's most elusive species, was caught, carved up and eaten by fishermen from a town in the Philippines, the environmental conservation group WWF said today.

So rare are megamouth shark sightings that each find is given a number - this one, caught by fishermen from the coastal town of Donsol - was the 41st ever seen or captured in the world.

But Elson Aca, a Donsol WWF representative, said it was butchered and its meat sauteed in coconut milk as a local delicacy, against the organisation's device.

The 4m, half-tonne megamouth was snared by fishermen trawling for mackerel off the Bicol peninsula on Luzon island.

(photo)
...

I just wanted to post anything with "megamouth" in it.

109 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:26:38pm

re: #86 Irish Rose

Spencer is slamming LGF over at JW.

Not interested. He runs a hate site, and I'm no more or less concerned with what Spencer says than with what Stormfront says.

110 monkey den  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:26:39pm

re: #94 Charles

....I'm disgusted by every American president who kowtows to the religious apartheid kingdom.

There's the nut right there.

111 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:26:41pm

re: #23 Charles

George W. Bush pandered to the Saudis throughout his entire presidency. If you don't think that's true, you're in denial.

And he was following a long line of presidents who pandered to the Saudis. Barack Obama's bow was the least offensive thing a US President has done.

RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!

112 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:26:47pm
113 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:02pm

re: #108 itellu3times

Is that like a Megahead?

114 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:11pm

re: #102 buzzsawmonkey

Feel the luff.

Sorry. I didn't mean to sound like I was bo'sun you around

115 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:17pm

re: #104 kansas

Well, that would be neither positive or negative.

Sure makes it easier to keep track of your new $50,000+ personal bailout debt.

116 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:37pm

re: #108 itellu3times

Philippine fisherman catch and eat a megamouth shark

I just wanted to post anything with "megamouth" in it.

Sheesh! If you got it, flaunt it! Jealous updings!

117 Aviator  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:39pm

re: #106 HoosierHoops

I seriously wanted to stay in bed today..No more Men's College Hoops.
Thank gawd for baseball season..To make matters worse..Obama picked the winner! I'm standing on the edge ready to jump!
/not really..It's too dang cold outside

Would have been nice to see MSU win, but no doubt who the best team was.

118 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:43pm
119 Joel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:43pm

re: #72 Opinionated

Good points. Even if Bush bowed (which I do not accept at all) doe that excuse Obama's obsequiousness to those murdering bastards? We always criticized presidents of both parties for their sucking up to the House of Saud. Obama has so far proven to be a total poseur in foreign policy and frankly Hillary has not impressed me at all as Secretary of State.

Bush is no longer president. I think he was ultimately a poor president but I think Obama's misrule will make a lot of us nostalgic for Bush (just as we did for Jerry Ford vis-a-vis Jimmy Carter).

120 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:49pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Shit, what happened?

121 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:27:52pm
122 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:28:52pm

re: #112 Afrocity

What happened?

123 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:28:56pm

re: #116 jwb7605

Sheesh! If you got it, flaunt it! Jealous updings!

BigMouth beer

124 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:28:56pm

re: #118 buzzsawmonkey

I take all the jibing here with good nature.

That's the sprit........good for you.

125 Jimash  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:29:03pm

re: #118 buzzsawmonkey

I take all the jibing here with good nature.

Just a shot across the ...wait for it... bow.

126 Opinionated  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:29:08pm

re: #94 Charles

Obviously, you don't understand my point, because I haven't posted a single word that "absolves" Obama. In fact, I've made it very clear that I'm disgusted by every American president who kowtows to the religious apartheid kingdom.

And that means EVERY American president, because they all do, and until we get serious about alternative energy sources it's going to continue.

No argument. None. I go further then you in my repulsion of those characters.

Maybe you don't realize, and maybe it's just me, but I read what you write on Obama's bow as minimizing its importance and symbolism.

I think it was important, telling and odious- even if others have done similarly acts. He is the President now and on him, and what he does, we must focus.

He bowed and I was disgusted and remain disgusted. And fearful of what it portends.

127 WhiteRasta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:29:08pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Hey, Afrocity hello. What are you referring to?

128 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:29:56pm
129 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:30:06pm

re: #106 HoosierHoops

I seriously wanted to stay in bed today..No more Men's College Hoops.
Thank gawd for baseball season..To make matters worse..Obama picked the winner! I'm standing on the edge ready to jump!
/not really..It's too dang cold outside

MSU needed about 7 players on the court and still might have been tough.

130 swamprat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:30:08pm

"Burn him! Burn him!"

Wait.

"He's right-wing nut!"

How do we know?

"He turned me into Sarah Palin!"

Really?

"I got better."

We can determine this scientifically; What raves, is self-righteous, and piously right-wing?

"I see where you are going....So if he weighs as much as Rush Limbaugh;..."

He would be a conservative pundit!

"Can we get Rush onto a truck scale?"

131 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:30:47pm

re: #115 Capitalist Tool

Sure makes it easier to keep track of your new $50,000+ personal bailout debt.

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

Obama could slip the Saudi king the tongue if he wanted to, as far as I'm concerned--if he'd back off on bankrupting the coal industry, agree to drill here, and start looking into nuclear power.

No coal, no oil, no nuclear. That clear?

132 rightwinger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:30:49pm

In fact Bush did not bow. He did what comes naturally when you have someone put a medal around your neck who is shorter than you. That is a fact. This is completely different than a bow which is what BHO did.

A second consideration is should we deal with the Saudis on a level that has our president accepting medals. I agree with Charles on this. The answer is 'NO'.

But Bush didn't bow. Obama did.

133 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:30:54pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Evening lizards.

Afrocity saw want went on in Alabama today.
Afrocity is now ARMED.

Get thee to a range, and get thee some instruction.

Armed is one thing.

Armed and skilled is whole other thing.

134 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:30:56pm
135 Emerald  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:31:26pm

re: #68 Sharmuta

We have serious national security concerns and a financial mess on our hands and people want to focus on this like it's the worst thing this man's done or waste time talking about his wife's clothes. Reality is there is a long history of deference to the Saudis and those bent out of shape about 0bama's bow are severely missing the target.

It's superficial and doesn't address any sort of solution to the underlying problem of middle east energy dependency, and it's just to score cheap political points.

Exactly. What is to be gained by making a big deal out of this? No one's particularly happy about what he did, but it's not like he's the only president to ever do it.

This type of posturing is counterproductive. No one takes it seriously, and it distracts people from the real issues. The Obama presidency is seriously flawed. There's no need to make stuff up to make him look bad when he's doing a perfectly good job of that by himself.

136 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:31:27pm

re: #112 Afrocity

hush child, ain't nobody's bussiness.

137 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:31:46pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

If it wasn't for space jesus I'd have the lowest rated comment of the day. he's beating me by 50 dings.

He's your own... personal... SpaceJesus...

Someone to take your dings
Among other things
Your own... personal... SpaceJesus
Someone to take your dings
He's the Troll King

When you're a troll
who has posted a poll
and the lizards yelled back
and Mandy sent you a WHACK
He'll bang on his keyboard
and your dings'll got overboard

Take second best
on an SJ flamefest;
You have been blest
so take a good rest.
He will deliver.
He's the downding forgiver...

138 summergurl  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:32:40pm

re: #56 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in today. I've been a bad, bad conservative.

It's because you drink Chardonnay - switch to something like Pinot Grigio or maybe a nice red and watch the compliments roll in

139 swamprat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:32:58pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Congratulations!
Now get some training.

140 Opinionated  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:33:14pm

re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth

It's not about absolving Obama, that's not the point. The point is that it's absurd to be outraged at just Obama's deference to the Saudis when many American Presidents have been doing the same for a long time now.

I'm outraged at every one.

I don't know how many comments I wrote here and on other boards about Bush's handholding.

For me, this was worse. And not because it was Obama. The sight of an American President spontaneously bowing- with a slight bended knee- to a Saudi makes me sick.

141 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:33:46pm

re: #127 WhiteRasta

Hey, Afrocity hello. What are you referring to?



Murder suicide
. 5 dead.

142 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:33:53pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

If it wasn't for space jesus I'd have the lowest rated comment of the day. he's beating me by 50 dings.

Braggin' or complainin'? ;)

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:33:57pm

re: #136 brookly red

Good point. Some things are better left unsaid.

144 xshaisu  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:34:03pm

Can we move on? There are more important things to be worried about that the President bowing.

145 monkey den  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:34:06pm

re: #139 swamprat

...and get your high cap clips while they're legal.

146 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:34:26pm

re: #140 Opinionated

The sight of an American President spontaneously bowing- with a slight bended knee- to a Saudi makes me sick.

Admit it. If it saved you money on gas you wouldn't care.

147 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:34:58pm
148 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:35:01pm

re: #134 Afrocity

Are you going to get a permit to "carry"?
Is that even possible in Chicago?
Not here.

149 WhiteRasta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:35:11pm

re: #141 lawhawk

Lord have mercy. How horrible...

150 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:35:18pm

re: #144 xshaisu

Can we move on? There are more important things to be worried about that the President bowing.

I'd like to move on too, but that's unfortunately not up to us; that's up to the weirdos spreading this silliness.

151 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:35:32pm

re: #144 xshaisu


Nope, go start your own blog. Bye.

152 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:35:35pm

re: #134 Afrocity

Tired of hearing about freakazoids coming in and shooting people because they are having a shit year.
Three people were killed on the very same corner that I catch a bus to the university (IN FRONT OF THE UNIVERSITY). No place is safe.
Got my shells. I dont know how to use it but I am gonna learn so I will see about registering it tomorrow.

They have "permit to carry concealed" laws down there like we have over here in Oklahoma? A most- handy law.

153 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:35:43pm
154 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:35:52pm

re: #134 Afrocity

Go get some instruction - I hope where you got the gun ensured it was something you can shoot. I am all for being armed - I am, but I've spent a lot of time learning how and discovering what I can, and more importantly, cannot handle accurately.

155 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:36:03pm

re: #132 rightwinger

In fact Bush did not bow. He did what comes naturally when you have someone put a medal around your neck who is shorter than you. That is a fact. This is completely different than a bow which is what BHO did.

Right. He didn't bow. He just put his hands by his side, bent forward from the waist, and received a medal.

It was NOT A BOW. Just keep telling yourself that.

156 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:36:29pm

re: #140 Opinionated

Ok, cool. It's just that some folks are seeing this discussion as making excuses for Obama's deference when that is not the case.

157 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:36:39pm

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

Good point. Some things are better left unsaid.

uh, huh.

158 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:36:53pm

If I were president I would bow to the Saudi king if say, they were paying us $1K per barrel to take all that nasty oil off their hands.
Since that's not the case I want to know why our presidents are bowing to the Saudi king.

159 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:36:57pm

re: #146 kansas

It does save us money on gas, and I still care. It's pathetic we are in a position that requires us to maintain a cordial relationship with the Sauds.

160 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:36:57pm
161 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:37:09pm

re: #147 taxfreekiller

What does the Republican Black Caucus have to say?

162 Opinionated  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:37:23pm

re: #146 kansas

Admit it. If it saved you money on gas you wouldn't care.

I'll gladly pay more for gas if those creeps - the hive of Islamic terrorism and hateful teachings- had no political influence in our country.

163 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:37:34pm

re: #155 Charles

Right. He didn't bow. He just put his hands by his side, bent forward from the waist, and received a medal.

It was NOT A BOW. Just keep telling yourself that.

"Bowing (also called stooping) is the act of lowering the torso and head as a social gesture in direction to another person or symbol. It is most prominent in Oriental cultures but it is also typical of nobility and aristocracy in many countries and distinctively in Europe. Sometimes the gesture may be limited to lowering the head. It is especially prominent in China, Korea, India, and Japan where it may be executed standing or kneeling."

164 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:37:41pm
165 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:37:47pm

re: #71 kansas

Yes, and can anyone name one positive thing Islam has done for America?

Algebra (al Jabbar)

166 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:37:54pm

re: #109 Charles

Not interested. He runs a hate site, and I'm no more or less concerned with what Spencer says than with what Stormfront says.

Speaking of Stormfront.org, Charles... have you seen the post over at Stormfront.org entitled, "ROBERT SPENCER IS A GOD!"

It's from 2006, and they link directly to both Jihadwatch and Dhimmiwatch.

I won't link it here, of course.

They sure do love him over there.

167 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:38:27pm

re: #166 Irish Rose

*snicker*

168 swamprat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:38:33pm

re: #116 jwb7605

re: #108 itellu3times

Flavor is a cross between baby seal and spotted owl.

169 paradox42  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:39:23pm

re: #146 kansas

Admit it. If it saved you money on gas you wouldn't care.

I'd pay $4 if it meant we could tell those fascists to FOAD.

170 WhiteRasta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:39:50pm

re: #168 swamprat

Whooping Crane has it's own distinct flavor....

171 xshaisu  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:40:00pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton
Bye!

172 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:40:09pm
173 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:40:26pm
174 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:41:04pm

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

"Bowing (also called stooping) is the act of lowering the torso and head as a social gesture in direction to another person or symbol. It is most prominent in Oriental cultures but it is also typical of nobility and aristocracy in many countries and distinctively in Europe. Sometimes the gesture may be limited to lowering the head. It is especially prominent in China, Korea, India, and Japan where it may be executed standing or kneeling."

I would never stoop to bow

175 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:41:08pm
176 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:41:19pm

re: #165 rawmuse

Islam the religion developed Algebra? I don't see that Googling the word quickly. Says the word is Arabic but the Babylonians devloped Algebra. But I'll have to look closer at that.

177 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:41:28pm

re: #172 Capitalist Tool

Yikes! Some things are better left unsaid.

178 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:41:43pm

re: #134 Afrocity

Tired of hearing about freakazoids coming in and shooting people because they are having a shit year.
Three people were killed on the very same corner that I catch a bus to the university (IN FRONT OF THE UNIVERSITY). No place is safe.
Got my shells. I dont know how to use it but I am gonna learn so I will see about registering it tomorrow.

Very seriously.

Think long. Think hard about this.

Are you willing to kill someone?

Now is the time to think about it.
Now is the time to ask the question.
Are you willing to kill someone?

It not a frivolous question.
It's at the very core of armed self defense.

You have to be willing to kill.
Kill to prevent harm to others or to yourself.

If the situation every arises, that is not the time to ask the fundamental question. It is time to react, to evaluate the situation and act on the threat.

Decide now.

If you don't decide now, if the time comes that moment you hesitate in thinking about it will mean the difference in your own survival.

Armed defense is not a a deterrence unless you are willing to implement it.

/ self defense preach mode off.

179 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:41:54pm

re: #175 onyxraven1979

LGF is definitely anti-jihad, but is also definitely not conservative. That is more apparent each day.

Never claimed to be. It's anti-idiotarian, do you know what that means?

180 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:42:14pm

re: #169 paradox42

I'd pay $4 if it meant we could tell those fascists to FOAD.

You did pay $4 and you will again. That's what Obama wants.

181 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:42:32pm

For the curious, here is the medal that was awarded to President Bush

The King Abdul Aziz order of Merit
Awarded: For meritorious service while in government office, for extraordinary deeds of bravery, and for other deeds of service to the state.[Link: www.omsa.org...]


This is what our Presidents do to keep our fuel prices low.

182 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:42:34pm
183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:42:44pm

re: #175 onyxraven1979

LGF is anti-idiotarian, which makes it more conservative than many so-called "conservative" blogs.

184 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:42:53pm

re: #176 kansas

Islam the religion developed Algebra? I don't see that Googling the word quickly. Says the word is Arabic but the Babylonians devloped Algebra. But I'll have to look closer at that.

It may be disputed, possibly, but the Islamic merchants used it widely and brought it to the Western world.

185 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:43:28pm

re: #173 Afrocity

do what you gotta do but don't post it...

186 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:43:45pm
187 Opinionated  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:44:00pm

Charles. I linked this on one of the other threads.

If you didn't see it, may I suggest you take a look

Barack takes a bow

[Link: washingtontimes.com...]

188 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:44:05pm

re: #170 WhiteRasta

Whooping Crane has it's own distinct flavor....

I once read an article that said a certain enzyme was created in the skull of the baby harp seal when by the animal was clubbed, and this enzyme was a sure cure for cancer. Too bad the magazine was National Lampoon.........

189 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:44:16pm

re: #175 onyxraven1979

If i remember correctly,Charles has been saying that for years.He seemed displeased when LGF was up for best conservative blog.Being conservative does not make one an anti-idiotarian.being an anti-idiotarian makes one an anti-idiotarian.

190 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:44:40pm

re: #184 rawmuse

It may be disputed, possibly, but the Islamic merchants used it widely and brought it to the Western world.

They adapted it (like many things)...

"There are three theories about the origins of Arabic algebra. The first emphasizes Hindu influence, the second emphasizes Mesopotamian or Persian-Syriac influence, and the third emphasizes Greek influence. Many scholars believe that it is the result of a combination of all three sources.[22]"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

191 paradox42  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:44:53pm

re: #180 kansas

You did pay $4 and you will again. That's what Obama wants.

If it means we can tell the Saudis to go to hell, its worth it. I'm not optimistic about that though.

The only politician ever seemed serious about dumping the Saudis was Rudy. The rest are all bought and owned.

192 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:44:56pm

re: #144 xshaisu

Can we move on? There are more important things to be worried about that the President bowing.

Bad blog behavior. Shows you are ancy. And it's rude. And you didn't give any idea of what you thought was more important. And given the first impression, I kinda doubt moving to your interest would be any better.

193 swamprat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:44:56pm

re: #144 xshaisu

Can we move on? There are more important things to be worried about that the President bowing.

Absolutely agree;
Socialist agenda, wrecking the economy, ruining our energy sources, diplomacy errors, crony-ism, appointing the inept and dishonest, etc.

Thanks for putting us on the right track.

194 WhiteRasta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:45:09pm

re: #188 IslandLibertarian

Snort, snort.....

195 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:45:09pm
196 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:46:01pm

re: #195 Afrocity

I would not have the thing in my house if I were not gonna use it.

just what I told my second wife before she got the boot

197 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:46:04pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton
dammit!beat me to it...and as usual more eloqent as well...grumble

198 xshaisu  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:46:26pm

To sit here and fuss because Obama did something past Presidents have done...no wonder conservatives are losing their grip.

199 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:47:07pm

Good night, dear Lizards.

200 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:47:12pm

re: #189 Boondock St. Bender

If i remember correctly,Charles has been saying that for years.He seemed displeased when LGF was up for best conservative blog.Being conservative does not make one an anti-idiotarian.being an anti-idiotarian makes one an anti-idiotarian.

Exactly.
They're two different things.

201 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:47:20pm

oh poo...you're not much fun

202 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:47:32pm
203 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:47:34pm

re: #199 goddessoftheclassroom

Good night, dear Lizards.

Good night goddess, congrats!

204 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:47:48pm

OT
VOLUME 2 update and plea for help.
Click my nic.

205 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:48:13pm

re: #178 jcm

Very seriously.

Think long. Think hard about this.

Are you willing to kill someone?

Now is the time to think about it.
Now is the time to ask the question.
Are you willing to kill someone?

It not a frivolous question.
It's at the very core of armed self defense.

You have to be willing to kill.
Kill to prevent harm to others or to yourself.

If the situation every arises, that is not the time to ask the fundamental question. It is time to react, to evaluate the situation and act on the threat.

Decide now.

If you don't decide now, if the time comes that moment you hesitate in thinking about it will mean the difference in your own survival.

Armed defense is not a a deterrence unless you are willing to implement it.

/ self defense preach mode off.

I grew up with guns. I never carry one now. I figured I would run into a situations where I would have to use it. I only keep them in a closest in case I run into civil unrest. The rodney king riots were an example. I was walking in Pioneer Square at 3 PM and was verbally threatened by 4 different people by the time I got to work. That won't happen again. I was unarmed and mostly meet the bluster with an attitude. I probably would have pulled a gun that day. The thin blue line was all too apparent that day.

206 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #195 Afrocity

I would not have the thing in my house if I were not gonna use it.

Good.

I made the decision a long time ago. Mass shooting in a McDonalds in CA. I couldn't understand how that many people would sit there and get shot.

I would not be one who didn't go down without a fight.

207 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #199 goddessoftheclassroom

Night! Sleep well!

208 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:49:08pm

re: #202 taxfreekiller

Nancy Pelosi makes Obama bow.

Oh baloney. Obama makes Nancy Pelosi positively pale in comparison.
/

209 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:49:16pm

re: #198 xshaisu

To sit here and fuss because Obama did something past Presidents have done...no wonder conservatives are losing their grip.

Because the blog owner (and a lot of the commenters) don't believe that any of our politicians should be bowing or showing deference to the Saudis... got that?

And Charles runs this blog, and you are simply a guest with no rights except the rights that he gives you. And I assure you, if you keep complaining about the topic of this thread (or any threads) Charles will block you account.

It's his house, you play by his rules. He doesn't like to be told what topics to post.

Got it?

210 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:49:48pm
211 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:50:35pm

re: #176 kansas

Islam the religion developed Algebra? I don't see that Googling the word quickly. Says the word is Arabic but the Babylonians devloped Algebra. But I'll have to look closer at that.

John Derbyshire has a book "Unknown Quantity" about that. And yeah, it was taken over from the Greeks.

Islam as a religion didn't contribute one thing to the sum of human achievement. It has given us no knowledge of the universe that couldn't have been found through science, and it was a net loss as to our moral and ethical development as compared with Augustine and the Talmud (unless, VERY arguably, you were an Arab bandit pagan). Arabs who happened to live under Islamic rule, and various people who happened to be Muslim, did contribute; but for every one Avicenna, there were ten Ghazalis out to declare him a heretic.

212 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:50:50pm

re: #173 Afrocity

It's a shotgun and I have online form.

Exactly how is a shotgun going to keep you safe at the bus stop?

213 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:50:52pm

You know, Bill Clinton caught the same sort of nonsense for doing exactly what Reagan and Bush 41 did.

Again, I go round with my fellow fundie Christians who's veins bulge when I explain to then how we are NOT a Christian country.

To all my brothers and sisters in Christ, just remember when you get your way and get the crosses and creches on public lands that demographics--like payback--are a bitch. One day in the not too distant future, when a minaret is raised on the courthouse square, the Muslims will thank you for setting the precedent for them.

214 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:50:52pm

re: #210 brookly red

for the last time, please do not post for a matter of record information that could be used against you some time down the road.

whoa...even if they want to?

215 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:50:56pm

re: #204 reine.de.tout

I can do some gardening stuff for you. I'm really good with that. I'll also send in my Udon recipe when I get a chance. Things have been a little hectic with me lately. I hope to have a little more free time soon.

216 Opinionated  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:51:07pm

To those of you who think the bow is unimportant.

If I told you that spontaneously someone bowed to the Saudi King upon being introduced. That's all you know about that person.

If I then asked you which side of the Arab/Israel conflict that person will likely identify with- what's your answer?

217 Jimash  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:51:29pm

re: #212 Spare O'Lake

Exactly how is a shotgun going to keep you safe at the bus stop?

Very large handbag.

218 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:51:34pm
219 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:51:41pm

recommend delete on #195 and #210 :^(

220 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:51:51pm
221 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:51:58pm

what is online shotgun form?....what am I missing?

222 swamprat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:51:58pm

re: #198 xshaisu

To sit here and fuss because Obama did something past Presidents have done...no wonder conservatives are losing their grip.

Other presidents put us a trillion dollars in debt?

Oh.

You mean the stupid "bow".

You are right. It is inconsequential compared to everything else.

223 xshaisu  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:52:06pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

I completely agree with Charles.

224 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:52:11pm

re: #184 rawmuse

It may be disputed, possibly, but the Islamic merchants used it widely and brought it to the Western world.

Well, I was referring to Obama's claiming all the positives things here in America that are the result of Islam. I am simply unable to easily list anything, whereas with Jews and Christians I can easily see positives from their teachings.

225 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:52:25pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

I can do some gardening stuff for you. I'm really good with that. I'll also send in my Udon recipe when I get a chance. Things have been a little hectic with me lately. I hope to have a little more free time soon.

I thought that would appeal to you. I hope others join in with some garden ideas too.

226 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:52:28pm

re: #210 brookly red

I think it's important to keep quite about the ownership of certain things, not because it could be used against you, but because you never know who might overhear such discussion and get the idea you have something worth stealing.

227 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:52:53pm

re: #210 brookly red

for the last time, please do not post for a matter of record information that could be used against you some time down the road.

Agreed, I need hardly add, but don't quote something that is a danger to unsuspecting posters. . . !

228 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:53:28pm

re: #134 Afrocity

I dont know how to use it but I am gonna learn so I will see about registering it tomorrow.

Please, take the time, spend the money and take a course.

229 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:53:35pm

re: #155 Charles

Right. He didn't bow. He just put his hands by his side, bent forward from the waist, and received a medal.

It was NOT A BOW. Just keep telling yourself that.

Charles, I'm probably going to get blown up for this but here goes. I can't see the video here at work to judge for myself but what I would be looking for is this. Was Bush's gesture part of his greeting to the Saudi? Because if it was I would be disgusted because I think no American president should bow as a sign of subservience to anyone. He represents the American people and would be symbolizing the submission of the American people themselves. National pride should preclude this.
However, if he was bending over to receive the award - that I would see as a different matter. It would represent nothing more than a physical act to assist in the bestowing of the award. Whether the award should be accepted is another matter entirely and has no bearing on the issue of whether or not obeisance is being displayed to a foreign ruler.

230 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:53:39pm

re: #211 Zimriel

John Derbyshire has a book "Unknown Quantity" about that. And yeah, it was taken over from the Greeks.

Islam as a religion didn't contribute one thing to the sum of human achievement. It has given us no knowledge of the universe that couldn't have been found through science, and it was a net loss as to our moral and ethical development as compared with Augustine and the Talmud (unless, VERY arguably, you were an Arab bandit pagan). Arabs who happened to live under Islamic rule, and various people who happened to be Muslim, did contribute; but for every one Avicenna, there were ten Ghazalis out to declare him a heretic.

Islam contributed the word Assassin.

231 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:53:42pm

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

232 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:54:26pm
233 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:54:32pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

Popiel's Pocket Nuke!

234 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:54:34pm

re: #228 Wendya

Please, take the time, spend the money and take a course.

to use a shotgun?...do they even have a course for that?

235 summergurl  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:54:34pm

re: #223 xshaisu

I completely agree with Charles.

Down dinged you for being a smart ass or a suck up, or both

236 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:54:45pm

re: #232 buzzsawmonkey

Goodnight, all.

Good night Buzz......
:)

237 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:55:35pm

re: #229 LGoPs

As a country do we?

1. Kowtow to the Saudi's?
2. Treat them with the respect they treat us with?
3. Expect them to be subservient to us?

238 Jimash  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:55:36pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Image: Smith.jpg

239 sawblade88  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:55:54pm

re: #184 rawmuse

Algebra is a joint effort; really a continuous development. You can trace it back to Babylon, through China and India to Persia. The name 'algebra' comes from al-jabr, which is Arabic. It's clear that the Persians and Arabs developed a lot of it, and most sources credit them with originating algebra, c. 820, with credit to Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī.

240 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:55:59pm

re: #221 albusteve

what is online shotgun form?....what am I missing?

A FOID application can be downloaded from the Illinois State Police website at [Link: www.isp.state.il.us...] or applications may be obtained at most retail stores where firearms are sold.

241 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:55:59pm

re: #230 hazzyday

Islam contributed the word Assassin.

That was just the Isma'ili Shi`a; other Muslims viewed them like we'd view David Koresh. (trying to be fair here)

242 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:56:04pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

This Ruger LCP has been recommended for small hands:
[Link: www.ruger-firearms.com...]

243 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:56:08pm

re: #225 Sharmuta

I thought that would appeal to you. I hope others join in with some garden ideas too.

You can get tobacco seeds online- easy to find on ebay.
Take the ones you don't need (they are very tiny and you usually get a whole bunch for price) and learn to make Fukuoka seed balls- then scatter them all over the place in wild areas where mowers won't go.

244 xshaisu  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:56:14pm

And I'm not telling what Charles should or should not post. I'm speaking in reference to people making a big deal from this bow when it is nothing more than a distracting from the larger issues.

245 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:56:24pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

A 38 revolver, 2 1/2 to 3 inch barrel. They have very light weight ones.

246 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:56:43pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

...never mind.

247 ciaospirit  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:56:59pm

Some info on HispanicBusiness. Not that it means anything.

HISPANIC BUSINESS® magazine won the prestigious Maggie Award for "Best Business & Finance Magazine," and we are syndicated by the New York Times Company.


The Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) Maggie Awards recognize exceptional contributions by the media and arts and entertainment industries that enhance the public's understanding of reproductive rights and health care issues, including contraception, sex education, teen pregnancy, abortion, and international family planning.

248 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:56:59pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

just go look at them all....just like picking out silverware or whatever,,,,there is no secret to ti

249 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:57:20pm

re: #243 Capitalist Tool

See #204

250 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:57:22pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

Good for you. I am happy with my decision.

251 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:57:22pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

Browning or Beretta .380

252 swamprat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:57:49pm

re: #244 xshaisu

And I'm not telling what Charles should or should not post. I'm speaking in reference to people making a big deal from this bow when it is nothing more than a distracting from the larger issues.

Please elaborate. And be specific.

253 Mad Mullah  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:57:49pm

Since we are comparing Bush to Obama and their interaction with the Saudis, I thought of one more significant difference in their behavior.

When Bush was receiving the medal, did he do anything differently than anybody else receiving the medal? I don't believe that he did. I believe that Cheney was mentioned in an earlier thread.

Now on to Obama, did Obama do anything differently than the other world leaders in the room who greeted the king? Why yes he did, I don't believe that the others bowed to Saudis in the shameful way that Obama did. Obama went out of his way to do something that nobody else present did.

254 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:57:59pm

re: #240 Afrocity

A FOID application can be downloaded from the Illinois State Police website at [Link: www.isp.state.il.us...] or applications may be obtained at most retail stores where firearms are sold.

usually the dealer takes care of that stuff...just wondered

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:58:13pm

re: #13 kansas

I see that I can join singlemuslim.com for free.

Are you a single Muslim, though?

256 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:59:04pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

I would have bought a handgun, but you cannot own one in Chicago

257 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:59:10pm

re: #246 Spare O'Lake

...never mind.

I'm a redhead, in that department I prefer heavy lifting.

258 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:59:16pm

re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you a single Muslim, though?

Well, neither actually, but the ad did not mention any requirements.

259 Aviator  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:59:28pm

re: #242 jaunte

This Ruger LCP has been recommended for small hands:
[Link: www.ruger-firearms.com...]

The only problem is .380 ammunition is very hard to find right now.

260 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:59:44pm

re: #205 hazzyday

I probably would have pulled a gun that day. The thin blue line was all too apparent that day.


That's why proper training is really necessary. With the right to keep and bear arms comes the responsibility of proper use. I've been in some frightening situations and taken a lot of verbal abuse but I've never drawn my weapon because when you're armed, you've got a responsibility NOT to let a situation escalate. I don't give a shit if someone calls me everything but a child of God.... I just let it bounce right the hell off. Unless someone draws a gun or knife on me or attempts to physically restrain me, the gun stays holstered.

261 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:59:47pm

re: #253 Mad Mullah

Since we are comparing Bush to Obama and their interaction with the Saudis, I thought of one more significant difference in their behavior.

When Bush was receiving the medal, did he do anything differently than anybody else receiving the medal? I don't believe that he did. I believe that Cheney was mentioned in an earlier thread.

Now on to Obama, did Obama do anything differently than the other world leaders in the room who greeted the king? Why yes he did, I don't believe that the others bowed to Saudis in the shameful way that Obama did. Obama went out of his way to do something that nobody else present did.

I noticed Bush's sword behavior and remember it disquieted me for a President to do that. I moved on past it and let it be.

262 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 6:59:56pm

re: #256 Afrocity

I would have bought a handgun, but you cannot own one in Chicago

contact the ACLU...file a lawsuit

263 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:00:12pm

re: #258 kansas

Well, neither actually, but the ad did not mention any requirements.

Well, I would expect, from the title of the site, that "single" and "muslim" plays into the equation somewhere, don't you think? Or is it just me?

264 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:00:14pm

re: #206 jcm

Good.

I made the decision a long time ago. Mass shooting in a McDonalds in CA. I couldn't understand how that many people would sit there and get shot.

I would not be one who didn't go down without a fight.

It's very hard to think about what you would do in any given situation. I have never had a shot fired at me in anger (accidentally is another matter). I have talked with several combat vets from several wars and the one constant is that when you are fired upon, your training "takes over". In other words, soldiers become conditioned to those types of situations. It is very hard for someone without that conditioning to speculate how they will react. There is the way I hope I would act, especially if my children and loved ones are about. The reality, though, is that we are all just as likely to fight with our feet and look for the nearest exit.

The worst thing about owning a firearm is not being ignorant about how to discharge it--it's not being confident that you can discharge it. You never want to be shot with your own gun.

265 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:00:20pm

Thanks for the advice all, I'm making a short list.

266 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:00:44pm

re: #217 Jimash

Very large handbag.

hack saw. back saw. shotgun no one saw.

267 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:01:00pm

re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you a single Muslim, though?

I have to say, they really should know better than to advertise here. That would be like running an ad for CatholicMatch.com at Jack Chick's site...

268 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:01:05pm

re: #265 Irish Rose

Thanks for the advice all, I'm making a short list.

Don't forget the Popiel's Pocket Nuke, put that on top of your list.

269 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:01:18pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

Find a range with rentals.

.380s are small, lightweight and easy to handle. But you have to put lead on target, it not going to knock anyone down.

There are a wide variety of compact semi-auto handguns from 9mm up to .45.

Spend the time, and rental cost to try a wide variety. What works for me, won't work for you.

The most important thing is that you are comfortable with the firearm, can handle it easily, that you can consistently put lead on target without undo effort.

A primary defensive firearm is one that has to be completely automatic to use, you can't and don't have time to think about grip, aim etc...

The other piece to that is training once find a comfortable fit.

270 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:01:30pm

re: #261 hazzyday

I noticed Bush's sword behavior and remember it disquieted me for a President to do that. I moved on past it and let it be.

Which might be a good decision on the Obama - Saudi dispute. Let it go.

271 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:01:35pm

re: #268 Walter L. Newton

Don't forget the Popiel's Pocket Nuke, put that on top of your list.

Is that anything like the Noisy Cricket?

272 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:02:08pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

I think revolvers are "safer" because it is easy to see
if it is loaded. Also, if it misfires, you just pull the trigger
again. An automatic on the other hand, if it misfires,
you have to slam the clip, re-rack it, etc.

273 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:02:27pm

re: #214 albusteve

whoa...even if they want to?

OK, let's say some one was to shoot and wound an intruder, are you with me? the intruder then sues and their lawyer produces a blog thread "suggesting" that the party of the first part was in some way "looking forward" to shooting someone (like their client) are you with me? and in the case of an illegal, "depriving them of their rights" ... talk all you want, but my advise is STFU.

274 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:02:29pm

re: #245 NonNativeTexan

I have a 38 special revolver - it's one of my favorites because it's very uncomplicated.

If people are in apartments, they should consider Glaser safety slugs - the goal is to eliminate the risk of the bad guy NOT shoot through walls and unintended targets.

275 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:02:33pm
276 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:03pm

I don't believe in guns, I prefer to insert the bullets manually./

277 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:05pm

re: #263 Walter L. Newton

Well, I would expect, from the title of the site, that "single" and "muslim" plays into the equation somewhere, don't you think? Or is it just me?

Excellent point. But I'm not Little, or Green, nor am I a Football.

278 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:19pm

re: #260 Wendya

That's why proper training is really necessary. With the right to keep and bear arms comes the responsibility of proper use. I've been in some frightening situations and taken a lot of verbal abuse but I've never drawn my weapon because when you're armed, you've got a responsibility NOT to let a situation escalate. I don't give a shit if someone calls me everything but a child of God.... I just let it bounce right the hell off. Unless someone draws a gun or knife on me or attempts to physically restrain me, the gun stays holstered.

Yah I go without and try and talk my way out of any difficult situations. But sometime I don't recognize trouble soon enough. I figure if I were to kill someone I would end up in jail for life unless it was at home. If they kill me. It won't bother me. But your advice is well taken. Recognize an actual threat and never point a gun at anyone unless you are going to use it. Basic firearms safety. Walk away if you are angry. Cool down. Talk it out.

279 Mad Mullah  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:21pm

re: #261 hazzyday

I noticed Bush's sword behavior and remember it disquieted me for a President to do that. I moved on past it and let it be.

I agree that episode is best forgotten, and so is the holding hands like gay lovers. However, maybe it's just me, but I see a huge symbolic difference between those episodes and the Obama bow, especially when taking Obama's roots and his associations into consideration.

280 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:28pm

re: #253 Mad Mullah

Call me when 0bama does the sword dance.

281 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:35pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

For home defense? I'd go with a 20 gauge shotgun. Less recoil and easy to use. My 79 year old mother has no problem handling one and it has sufficient stopping power (depending on load) within a home.

282 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:40pm

re: #63 Joel

Obama sucks. "America is not a Christian, Jewish or Muslim nation" - yeas thankfully there is no state religion but we are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values.

We are a nation founded, if we be founded on any religious values at all, on Christian, heck, PROTESTANT values.

The "Judeo-" refers strictly to what Protestant Christians chose to take from Christianity's historical base in Judaism. It falsely implies an inclusion of living Jews and their values in the founding of the country.

I ain't saying we Yidden didn't have good luck with the U.S., because we surely did, but 'Judeo-Christian' suggests something about the founding of the nation that is not true.

283 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:49pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Something that you can operate. Seriously--if you have small hands, you might not be able to work the slide release in some larger pistols. Something that not only fits your hand but where your fingers can touch all the controls.

284 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:52pm

re: #277 kansas

Excellent point. But I'm not Little, or Green, nor am I a Football.

You're not? I am. I thought we all were. Damn.

285 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #268 Walter L. Newton

Just ordered one from ebay. Thanks for the tip!

286 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:04:02pm

Sorry to jump in; I'm watching the fairly startling "Frontline" about the BAE/Saudi Arabia bribery deal.

Crazy stuff.

The Saudis threatened Blair to drop the investigation, or they would stop cooperating on terrorism (implicitly suggesting that AQ would hit Britain again).

Former FBI director Louis Freeh currently fucking well REPRESENTS Prince Bandar.

/spit

287 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:04:06pm

re: #264 calcajun

It's very hard to think about what you would do in any given situation. I have never had a shot fired at me in anger (accidentally is another matter). I have talked with several combat vets from several wars and the one constant is that when you are fired upon, your training "takes

288 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:05:01pm

re: #275 Iron Fist

9mm or .38. My ex-wife was a very small woman, and she carried a S&W 659. Berettas are nice, but they are a little big for carrying. If you prefer a revolver either a .38 or .357. Personally, I'd go with the .357 because you can always practice with .38s and carry with full-power .357 loads. That makes the .357 a bit more flexible.

You are probably going to want to stay away from .44s or .45s. Although Dianna has a Kimber in .45. You might ask her about the recoil. I don't generally mind it, but I don't especially mind a .44 Magnum, either.

Speaking of thicker bullets- Charter Arms makes a really nice little
.44- special 5-shot revolver that is small and not a bit hard to control.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:05:19pm

re: #82 buzzsawmonkey

Well, the Ka'aba provided a model for Apple's New York store.

By that standard, the Kaaba provided a model for any cube-shaped thing.

That store doesn't look anything like the Kaaba.

290 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:05:26pm

re: #264 calcajun

It's very hard to think about what you would do in any given situation. I have never had a shot fired at me in anger (accidentally is another matter). I have talked with several combat vets from several wars and the one constant is that when you are fired upon, your training "takes over". In other words, soldiers become conditioned to those types of situations. It is very hard for someone without that conditioning to speculate how they will react. There is the way I hope I would act, especially if my children and loved ones are about. The reality, though, is that we are all just as likely to fight with our feet and look for the nearest exit.

The worst thing about owning a firearm is not being ignorant about how to discharge it--it's not being confident that you can discharge it. You never want to be shot with your own gun.

I've been through LE training including shoot no-shoot sims. In lieu of tons of training, one can think through everyday situations. If I'm sitting in McD's and a gunmen comes in what will I do? You can mind game a lot of scenarios that way.

Also be dead certain of the local self defense laws, when and when you can't use lethal force.

291 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:05:33pm

re: #273 brookly red

OK, let's say some one was to shoot and wound an intruder, are you with me? the intruder then sues and their lawyer produces a blog thread "suggesting" that the party of the first part was in some way "looking forward" to shooting someone (like their client) are you with me? and in the case of an illegal, "depriving them of their rights" ... talk all you want, but my advise is STFU.


So take your own advice/

292 JHW  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:05:54pm

re: #204 reine.de.tout

OT
VOLUME 2 update and plea for help.
Click my nic.

Just sent you some Indian Fry Bread recipes.

293 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:05:58pm

re: #287 albusteve

What happened there? You cut out on us, buddy.

294 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:06:10pm

re: #273 brookly red

OK, let's say some one was to shoot and wound an intruder, are you with me? the intruder then sues and their lawyer produces a blog thread "suggesting" that the party of the first part was in some way "looking forward" to shooting someone (like their client) are you with me? and in the case of an illegal, "depriving them of their rights" ... talk all you want, but my advise is STFU.

why are you so hostile?

295 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:06:21pm

Here is a bit of context from Daniel Pipes back in 2003..
The Scandal of U.S.-Saudi Relations

In November 1990, President George H.W. Bush went to the Persian Gulf region with his wife and top congressional leaders at Thanksgiving time to visit the 400,000 troops gathered in Saudi Arabia, whom he sent there to protect that country from an Iraqi invasion. When the Saudi authorities learned that the President intended to say grace before a festive Thanksgiving dinner, they remonstrated; Saudi Arabia knows only one religion, they said, and that is Islam. Bush acceded, and he and his entourage instead celebrated the holiday on the U.S.S. Durham, an amphibious cargo ship sitting in international waters.

But at least he didn't bow.

296 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:06:30pm

re: #285 ArmyWife

Just ordered one from ebay. Thanks for the tip!

Can I get one too? Only problem is my Visa limit is only 2 trillion - is that enough?

297 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:06:38pm

re: #281 Wendya

For home defense? I'd go with a 20 gauge shotgun. Less recoil and easy to use. My 79 year old mother has no problem handling one and it has sufficient stopping power (depending on load) within a home.

Great advice for home use- especially in apartments or in town in general... someone upthread already mentioned going through walls.

298 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:06:44pm

re: #287 albusteve

bad fu...

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:07:27pm

re: #97 paradox42

The Islamic Wing of the Metropolitan Museum of Art has some beautiful pieces in it. Other than that I'm drawing a blank.

Let's try this exercise with the Hindus, now.

300 Elcid  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:07:59pm

re: #112 Afrocity

Evening lizards.

Afrocity saw want went on in Alabama today.
Afrocity is now ARMED.

And lovely arms, they are. Grab a good bud and go out and practice, if you've never fired a shotgun. Skeet shooting if you are able...good for reactions of "things" coming from any direction.

Once you are comfy with it, know that the racking sound of a shotgun has stopped many a fool, without firing...but as mentioned earlier..be ready to pull the trigger.

301 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:08:17pm

re: #279 Mad Mullah

I agree that episode is best forgotten, and so is the holding hands like gay lovers. However, maybe it's just me, but I see a huge symbolic difference between those episodes and the Obama bow, especially when taking Obama's roots and his associations into consideration.

Creationist Muslims will interpret all of Obama's actions in the middle east as a sign that Obama is a good muslim. He can only distinguish himself by setting an example of supporting Israel fully.

302 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:08:46pm

re: #277 kansas

Excellent point. But I'm not Little, or Green, nor am I a Football.

Your avatar says otherwise!

I dropped off to answer an e-mail from a new facebook friend I found using the wayback machine (think 1961) from High School/Church.
I returned, and see we have a new poster named [deleted].

What did I miss?

303 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:09:09pm

re: #293 calcajun

What happened there? You cut out on us, buddy.

I was going to mention that the recruits during WW2 had a hell of a time firing their weapons in return to hostile fire...being exposed and all...it was a real problem but improved dramatically during the VN era with full auto weapons for most troops...

304 WhiteRasta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:09:23pm

Here is a bad-ass all American pistol:

[Link: www.magnumresearch.com...]

Not for small hands.

305 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:09:51pm

So what the heck does the Obama bow story have to do with "Hispanic Business", anyway?

Odd.

306 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:09:59pm

re: #290 jcm

I've been through LE training including shoot no-shoot sims. In lieu of tons of training, one can think through everyday situations. If I'm sitting in McD's and a gunmen comes in what will I do? You can mind game a lot of scenarios that way.

Also be dead certain of the local self defense laws, when and when you can't use lethal force.

I know it. They are different everywhere. Growing up in NOLA, the rule was it was OK if they were still in the house--and the NOPD would help you drag them back in, too. Texas has its "Castle" laws. Again, there is they way I think I'd like to react, and then there are natural instincts. Unless I take a combat shooting course--and I'd like to--I am not sure of how I would react.

307 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:10:03pm

Gotta scoot. See you later lizards.

308 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:10:06pm

re: #294 albusteve

why are you so hostile?

I am not hostile, I am trying to be protective... do what you gotta do, just don't leave a big long trail of stuff that can be use against you behind. Does that make sense?

309 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:10:08pm

Hey Lizards! It's still cold in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland. The snow from last night did melt.

I've been ponding this Saudi Oil conundrum for awhile. I don't really like to see the leaders of the West bowing to anyone. As far as I am concerned there is no human to whom I'd subject myself to in that manner (well at least not in the last 2000 years). Ok, maybe the Pope or one of my parents in an extreme circumstance.

Anyway, the fact is that because of "demon" oil, the West has been able to raise the standard of living for EVERYONE. What would happen if we suddenly had no oil? This is a list of products which are made affordable and in mass quanitites because of crude oil.

Would I like to see us depleting our own reserves? Why not use up the ME oil first? I know that sounds horrible, but WTF. We create the technology, we do the work. The Saudi's couldn't get oil from the ground without us (or another developed country albiet)

In the end, we are not going to live without crude oil and maintain the level of peace and prosperity we want. This is not Heaven, it is Earth. We have to make choices.

310 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:10:39pm

re: #305 Occasional Reader

...And it's the most popular story on their site. Odd.

311 sleepyone  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:10:46pm

My hair is splitting.

312 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:10:50pm

re: #304 WhiteRasta

Here is a bad-ass all AmericanIsraeli pistol:

[Link: www.magnumresearch.com...]

Not for small hands.

FIFY

313 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:11:05pm

re: #253 Mad Mullah

Kissing Saudi ass is kissing Saudi ass. Whether it's done sitting, standing, or spinning in a circle, it's still kissing ass.

314 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:11:23pm

re: #228 Wendya

AMEN.

315 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:11:41pm

re: #240 Afrocity

A FOID application can be downloaded from the Illinois State Police website at [Link: www.isp.state.il.us...] or applications may be obtained at most retail stores where firearms are sold.

I am of the opinion that everyone in Illiniois should get one. Whether you shoot, or a gun or not. The more out there, the more difficult to for the tyrants to confiscate.

316 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:11:59pm

re: #302 jwb7605

Your avatar says otherwise!

I dropped off to answer an e-mail from a new facebook friend I found using the wayback machine (think 1961) from High School/Church.
I returned, and see we have a new poster named [deleted].

What did I miss?


One of us made a comment about a weapon they have, and how they would use it if necessary. Someone else felt that comment could be used against them should they actually have to use it. Premeditated or something like that. The comment was removed. It really wasn't that bad.

317 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:12:14pm

re: #305 Occasional Reader

So what the heck does the Obama bow story have to do with "Hispanic Business", anyway?

Odd.

I think they just don't expect a 'conservative' to be sane. It's like a two-headed cat to them. An oddity.

318 WhiteRasta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:12:19pm

re: #312 Occasional Reader

Israeli? No shit?

319 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:12:26pm

re: #273 brookly red

OK, let's say some one was to shoot and wound an intruder, are you with me? the intruder then sues and their lawyer produces a blog thread "suggesting" that the party of the first part was in some way "looking forward" to shooting someone (like their client) are you with me? and in the case of an illegal, "depriving them of their rights" ... talk all you want, but my advise is STFU.

Not to mention numerous mentions by said poster of current and "recommended lifetime use" of xanax", current use of ambien, diagnosed anxiety disorder, reference to freaking out on numerous occasions (including thinking 'kkk person was at the door, leaving a bus because someone was staring, etc etc), all attesting to prior frame and state of mind ....combined with an avatar that supposedly reveals true identity of said poster.

Not a good situation all the way around.

320 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:12:29pm

re: #296 Spare O'Lake

You have score some of that "fake" paypal money that has hit the black market. But don't tell anyone else, ok?

321 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:12:47pm

re: #308 brookly red

I am not hostile, I am trying to be protective... do what you gotta do, just don't leave a big long trail of stuff that can be use against you behind. Does that make sense?

telling people to STFU seems hostile to me...whatever

322 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:12:58pm

I forgot in my rantings:

How are you-all this evening and what are we talking about?

:0

323 Killian Bundy  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:13:06pm

Electricity Grid in U.S. Penetrated by Spies

Cyberspies have penetrated the U.S. electrical grid and left behind software programs that could be used to disrupt the system, according to current and former national-security officials.

The spies came from China, Russia and other countries, these officials said, and were believed to be on a mission to navigate the U.S. electrical system and its controls. The intruders haven't sought to damage the power grid or other key infrastructure, but officials warned they could try during a crisis or war.

"The Chinese have attempted to map our infrastructure, such as the electrical grid," said a senior intelligence official. "So have the Russians."

The espionage appeared pervasive across the U.S. and doesn't target a particular company or region, said a former Department of Homeland Security official. "There are intrusions, and they are growing," the former official said, referring to electrical systems. "There were a lot last year."

Many of the intrusions were detected not by the companies in charge of the infrastructure but by U.S. intelligence agencies, officials said. Intelligence officials worry about cyber attackers taking control of electrical facilities, a nuclear power plant or financial networks via the Internet.

Authorities investigating the intrusions have found software tools left behind that could be used to destroy infrastructure components, the senior intelligence official said. He added, "If we go to war with them, they will try to turn them on."

/so, will they turn it off before Obama makes it too expensive to afford anyway?

324 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:13:11pm

re: #306 calcajun

I know it. They are different everywhere. Growing up in NOLA, the rule was it was OK if they were still in the house--and the NOPD would help you drag them back in, too. Texas has its "Castle" laws. Again, there is they way I think I'd like to react, and then there are natural instincts. Unless I take a combat shooting course--and I'd like to--I am not sure of how I would react.

That's funny.

325 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:13:19pm

re: #274 ArmyWife

If people are in apartments, they should consider Glaser safety slugs - the goal is to eliminate the risk of the bad guy NOT shoot through walls and unintended targets.

I've been thinking of picking some up. But I wonder if they'll cause feeding problems in my Kimber M1911.

326 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:13:41pm

re: #234 albusteve

to use a shotgun?...do they even have a course for that?

Yes, they do as a matter of fact.

327 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:13:52pm

re: #321 albusteve

I'm inclined to think brookly red has a point.

328 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:13:58pm

re: #323 Killian Bundy

This may have negative consequences for all those electric cars we are apparently clamoring to get.

329 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:17pm

re: #303 albusteve

I was going to mention that the recruits during WW2 had a hell of a time firing their weapons in return to hostile fire...being exposed and all...it was a real problem but improved dramatically during the VN era with full auto weapons for most troops...

The SLA Marshall article I read years ago was an eye-opener; 4 of every 7 combat vets in WWII discharged their weapons--the others thought that semi-auto fire was useless. That's why the M-1 gave way to the M-14 and then the M-16. What they found now is most effective--and what the M-16 has designed into it now--is the three round burst feature.

330 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:25pm
331 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:25pm

Give me a fucking break.
Everyone is so wrapped up with trying to not have ODS that they are digging up everything that Bush did also. Who gives a shit? All POTUS's are in bed with the oil tycoons. GET OVER IT! Why aren't we paying attention to the defense slash and the ACORN raise? Jesus Christ almighty!

332 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:27pm

re: #282 SanFranciscoZionist

We are a nation founded, if we be founded on any religious values at all, on Christian, heck, PROTESTANT values.

The "Judeo-" refers strictly to what Protestant Christians chose to take from Christianity's historical base in Judaism. It falsely implies an inclusion of living Jews and their values in the founding of the country.

I ain't saying we Yidden didn't have good luck with the U.S., because we surely did, but 'Judeo-Christian' suggests something about the founding of the nation that is not true.

G-d bless you, SFZionist; but Protestantism was founded by people who replaced a lot of Catholic tradition with readings of the Old Testament, and input from Judaism. For instance, Luther's Bible went back to the Hebrew, and whatever was not found there got relegated to "Apocrypha". Luther actually thought that making all these concessions would incite Jews to switch over (it didn't work, but that's another issue).

I think that "Judaeo-Christian reactionary" is a fairly good approximation of Protestantism... especially some of the mainline churches these days, which are playing down the doctrine of Trinity. (I am NOT saying, here, which of these faiths is "true"! So please have mercy...)

333 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:35pm

re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist

By that standard, the Kaaba provided a model for any cube-shaped thing.

They ripped it off from the Borg, anyway.

(Um, I think buzzsaw was being sarcastic.)

334 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:43pm

re: #259 Aviator

The only problem is .380 ammunition is very hard to find right now.

Really... Why?

I was thinking of taking my PPK to the range this weekend.

335 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:48pm

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]

336 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:52pm

re: #325 Occasional Reader

I don't know enough to answer that. Wish I was home. Mr. ArmyWife is a gun guru and would have some story to go with his answer.

337 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:14:55pm

I'm waiting for a Phasor. Is it set to stun or not?

338 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:15:03pm

re: #325 Occasional Reader

I've been thinking of picking some up. But I wonder if they'll cause feeding problems in my Kimber M1911.

Nope.

I also have some hollow points and snake load, all frangible rounds that won't go through the walls. I've never had the slightest problem with them, either in my Kimber or my little Ruger.

339 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:15:08pm

So lowering your head to have a medal placed around your neck is the equivalent to a deep waist bow as a subject bows to a Sovereign? They are equivalent? The same thing? Connoting the same thing? Really? allrighty then... If anybody finds a video of Bush or any other President bowing as part of his formal greeting please post a link.

340 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:15:10pm

re: #319 pink freud

Not to mention numerous mentions by said poster of current and "recommended lifetime use" of xanax", current use of ambien, diagnosed anxiety disorder, reference to freaking out on numerous occasions (including thinking 'kkk person was at the door, leaving a bus because someone was staring, etc etc), all attesting to prior frame and state of mind ....combined with an avatar that supposedly reveals true identity of said poster.

Not a good situation all the way around.

I agree but it seems people can post whatever they want until they get deleted or yanked...who knows what people will say, that's their business

341 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:15:31pm

re: #327 Dianna

I'm inclined to think brookly red has a point.

So am I ...a very valid one.

342 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:15:37pm

Wow, it's a gun thread in the middle of a multi-sided food fight... cool!

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:15:48pm

re: #211 Zimriel

John Derbyshire has a book "Unknown Quantity" about that. And yeah, it was taken over from the Greeks.

Islam as a religion didn't contribute one thing to the sum of human achievement. It has given us no knowledge of the universe that couldn't have been found through science, and it was a net loss as to our moral and ethical development as compared with Augustine and the Talmud (unless, VERY arguably, you were an Arab bandit pagan). Arabs who happened to live under Islamic rule, and various people who happened to be Muslim, did contribute; but for every one Avicenna, there were ten Ghazalis out to declare him a heretic.

But if Jews get to count Salk, surely Muslims get to count Avicena. Medieval Islam did produce great scholars and artists.

And the Talmud's importance to world civilization is actually pretty minimal, except for its use as a wealth of cutesy, out-of-context quotes for anthology of cutesy out-of-context quotes. I say this as someone with enormous reverence for the text, I just don't see it having much impact outside the Jewish world.

344 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:15:53pm

what is comes down to for me, is not the deep humiliating full on bow vs the head nod to get a medal, it is the person paying doing the act.
i trust pres. bush despite his show of respect to the saudi king, to ultimately
put america first. and he has.
o has done nothing but dump on america and belittle us. this is the face of his
pandering to islam. anything that he does that shows his allegiance to the enemy
just makes me trust him less.
and of course i will focus on it. because it is just another display of his
being enamored of the enemy.
how much more do we need than his flouncing up and dropping over from the waist, when he wasn't receiving a medal, when he wasn't introduced formally,
when he could have just shook the guys hand.

345 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:16:08pm

re: #331 NYCHardhat

Give me a fucking break.
Everyone is so wrapped up with trying to not have ODS that they are digging up everything that Bush did also. Who gives a shit? All POTUS's are in bed with the oil tycoons. GET OVER IT! Why aren't we paying attention to the defense slash and the ACORN raise? Jesus Christ almighty!

Herbal tea is good for stress, or so I've heard.

346 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:16:09pm
347 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:16:11pm

Afrocity, my nick is blue, please email me.

348 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:16:13pm

re: #327 Dianna

I'm inclined to think brookly red has a point.

he can make his point yes...

349 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:16:29pm

re: #335 Charles

now THAT is something to frame for prosperity. What in the heck could be better than being mentioned in Playboy, I ask you?

350 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:16:53pm

re: #335 Charles

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]

This is huge. Playboy! I'm thinking playmates are reading this thread right now. I need to clean up my act.

351 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:16:58pm

re: #345 Irish Rose

Herbal tea is good for stress, or so I've heard.

Thank you Rose. I will stay with my Irish whiskey. ;)

352 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:17:11pm

re: #335 Charles

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]


Charles reads Playboy! *snicker*

/kidding, I know you just read it for the articles

353 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:17:13pm

re: #318 WhiteRasta

Israeli? No shit?

I confirm my absence of shit. Israeli Defense Industries. Kind of an impractical pistol, IMHO. (Ammo is also crazy expensive, so I'm told.)

354 stuiec  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:17:15pm

re: #94 Charles

Obviously, you don't understand my point, because I haven't posted a single word that "absolves" Obama. In fact, I've made it very clear that I'm disgusted by every American president who kowtows to the religious apartheid kingdom.

And that means EVERY American president, because they all have, and until we get serious about alternative energy sources it's going to continue.

It would help if Congress and the President would permit more domestic fossil fuel exploration and production, onshore and offshore, while we engage in the transition. It would also help if we started building more nuclear power generating stations right away.

What are the odds of those things happening?

(On a related note, I hope that Israel's apparent discovery of a large offshore natural gas field is real. It would help in so many dimensions of geopolitics.)

355 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:17:30pm

re: #325 Occasional Reader

I've been thinking of picking some up. But I wonder if they'll cause feeding problems in my Kimber M1911.

What are these again? I live in an apartment.

356 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:17:35pm

re: #349 ArmyWife

now THAT is something to frame for prosperity. What in the heck could be better than being mentioned in Playboy, I ask you?

Getting the centerfold?

357 summergurl  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:17:45pm

re: #335 Charles

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]

I would say prepare for the onslaught of visitors but then again I doubt anyone reads that mag, more like gazes at it.

358 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:17:49pm

I wish we had the Lounge back.
@#$%!

359 solomonpanting  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:07pm

re: #282 SanFranciscoZionist

We are a nation founded, if we be founded on any religious values at all, on Christian, heck, PROTESTANT values.

The "Judeo-" refers strictly to what Protestant Christians chose to take from Christianity's historical base in Judaism. It falsely implies an inclusion of living Jews and their values in the founding of the country.

I ain't saying we Yidden didn't have good luck with the U.S., because we surely did, but 'Judeo-Christian' suggests something about the founding of the nation that is not true.

You may be interested in a different perspective.

360 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:14pm

re: #335 Charles

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]

Charles, that's an article.

Oh, wait...

361 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:14pm

re: #317 Charles

I think they just don't expect a 'conservative' to be sane. It's like a two-headed cat to them. An oddity.

Um... I *do* hope you're not qualifying all those of us who respectfully disagree with you on the Obama bow thing as "insane".

362 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:14pm

re: #319 pink freud

Not to mention numerous mentions by said poster of current and "recommended lifetime use" of xanax", current use of ambien, diagnosed anxiety disorder, reference to freaking out on numerous occasions (including thinking 'kkk person was at the door, leaving a bus because someone was staring, etc etc), all attesting to prior frame and state of mind ....combined with an avatar that supposedly reveals true identity of said poster.

Not a good situation all the way around.


Yeah, I would not say on one post that I had PTSD and on the next that I bought a shotgun that wasn't registered yet, but hey some folks just don't get it.

363 gmsc  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:19pm

re: #352 Irish Rose

/kidding, I know you just read it for the articles

NSFW joke:
I read Playboy just for the articles. I have to, all the other pages are stuck together!

364 irongrampa  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:29pm

re: #281 Wendya


Absolutely. Even #6 shot at 6-9 feet is more than sufficient.

365 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:31pm

re: #258 kansas

Well, neither actually, but the ad did not mention any requirements.

They might want to work on that.

366 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:40pm

Oh, with Playboy on our side, does that mean the male posters here can haz free boobies? WANT

367 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:46pm

re: #346 Afrocity

Thanks to Iron Fist I had the confidence. I was told that it was bad to have one. My dad was not happy with me but then again he can't have one because he has been in jail for murder. I feel okay about it. It is my constitutional right. I feel safer.

How do you feel about concealed carry laws? In Texas, personal crime (rape, muggings etc.) have all dropped dramatically since the concealed carry law went into effect. And, there has not been a spate of shootings either. Funny, gun owners acting responsibly. Who would have thunk it.

368 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:18:57pm

re: #340 albusteve

I agree but it seems people can post whatever they want until they get deleted or yanked...who knows what people will say, that's their business

Sure, anyone can post anything. Brooklyn red's point was that certain information - posted on a public blog - can be used against that person.

As for it being their business ....yes, it is theirs and everyone who is reading, which is the reason the person posts it in the first place ...to make it everyone's business (else, why post the info at all?)

369 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:05pm

re: #329 calcajun

The SLA Marshall article I read years ago was an eye-opener; 4 of every 7 combat vets in WWII discharged their weapons--the others thought that semi-auto fire was useless. That's why the M-1 gave way to the M-14 and then the M-16. What they found now is most effective--and what the M-16 has designed into it now--is the three round burst feature.

good summary....that's what I was referring to but was anecdotal more or less

370 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:13pm

re: #282 SanFranciscoZionist

We are a nation founded, if we be founded on any religious values at all, on Christian, heck, PROTESTANT values.

The "Judeo-" refers strictly to what Protestant Christians chose to take from Christianity's historical base in Judaism. It falsely implies an inclusion of living Jews and their values in the founding of the country.

I ain't saying we Yidden didn't have good luck with the U.S., because we surely did, but 'Judeo-Christian' suggests something about the founding of the nation that is not true.

Moses > Jesus > Western Civilization > Enlightenment > USA. Break the chain and you don't get here and you don't go anywhere.

371 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:20pm

re: #356 kansas

I'm thinking that Charles isn't exactly the normal centerfold. Unless they've taken a new approach and are widening their target audience to hetero females and gay males.

372 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:30pm

re: #319 pink freud

Not to mention numerous mentions by said poster of current and "recommended lifetime use" of xanax", current use of ambien, diagnosed anxiety disorder, reference to freaking out on numerous occasions (including thinking 'kkk person was at the door, leaving a bus because someone was staring, etc etc), all attesting to prior frame and state of mind ....combined with an avatar that supposedly reveals true identity of said poster.

Not a good situation all the way around.

If any of it's even real.

373 The Shadow Do  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:33pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

Some time ago I bought my quite petite wife a very nice Charter Arms .22LR revolver thinking it would fit her just so and be perfect for self defense. Wrong. Pop, pop, pop - could not hit a target. Then she picked up my SW .357mag with a 5" barrel and proceeded to knock the heart out of every target she was presented - and she was not a shooter! She did not like the lightweight, easy to handle gun as it turned out. Go to a range and shoot all kinds of stuff. You never know.

374 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:42pm

re: #357 summergurl

I would say prepare for the onslaught of visitors

Open registration?

375 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:47pm

re: #325 Occasional Reader

I've been thinking of picking some up. But I wonder if they'll cause feeding problems in my Kimber M1911.

I tried them on the range with a Kimber 1911 and didn't have any misfeeds. Kimber makes a very good pistol and I've fed a wide variety of ammo including a magazine of really dirty wolf through it with no problems.

376 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:48pm

re: #267 Zimriel

I have to say, they really should know better than to advertise here. That would be like running an ad for CatholicMatch.com at Jack Chick's site...

It may be automated. We say "Muslim" a certain number of times, and the machine gives us an ad.

377 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:07pm

Boys. *eye roll*

378 summergurl  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:18pm

re: #358 Zimriel

I wish we had the Lounge back.
@#$%!

For God's sake man - don't go there!

Distract yourself with a donut or something.

379 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:24pm

re: #224 kansas

The Jews gave us Don Rickles, for which I am grateful.

380 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:27pm

This shithead already has term two in his pocket if he keeps distracting us from the bigger things going on.

381 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:34pm

re: #371 ArmyWife

Ewwww.

382 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:41pm

re: #355 Afrocity

What are these again? I live in an apartment.

Glaser Safe-T-Slugs.

Basically, instead of a solid bullet, it's a cluster of pellets suspended in liquid Teflon. TREMENDOUS stopping power, as long as the bad guy is not wearing body armor; and tends not to blow through the bad guy and pierce walls and such.

383 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:46pm

re: #335 Charles

LGF getting mentioned in Playboy? Smoking Jacket Media..

384 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:20:58pm

re: #380 NYCHardhat

That may be his major talent.

385 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:21:23pm

re: #377 Sharmuta

Boys. *eye roll*

women *eyes light up*

386 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:21:29pm

re: #249 Sharmuta

thank you

387 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:21:31pm

re: #380 NYCHardhat

This shithead already has term two in his pocket if he keeps distracting us from the bigger things going on.

So why are folks on the right insisting on playing along?

388 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:21:36pm

re: #362 brookly red

Yeah, I would not say on one post that I had PTSD and on the next that I bought a shotgun that wasn't registered yet, but hey some folks just don't get it.

PLUS having a father with a murder conviction who was just over for a visit. This gets stranger and stranger.

389 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:21:42pm

re: #377 Sharmuta

Boys. *eye roll*

That's hot. Did I see a woman just roll her eyes!

390 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:07pm

re: #373 The Shadow Do

Some time ago I bought my quite petite wife a very nice Charter Arms .22LR revolver thinking it would fit her just so and be perfect for self defense. Wrong. Pop, pop, pop - could not hit a target. Then she picked up my SW .357mag with a 5" barrel and proceeded to knock the heart out of every target she was presented - and she was not a shooter! She did not like the lightweight, easy to handle gun as it turned out. Go to a range and shoot all kinds of stuff. You never know.

She's like my wife. First time out with my .45, she puts three in the head and six in the chest at 30 feet. She did that three more times. Now, if there's a bump in the night, she's the family's first responder.

391 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:08pm

re: #363 gmsc

I'm one of those types who subscribed to Playboy despite the articles. I let my subscription expire when they characterized domestic terrorist Rod Coronado as a "speaking troof to power" type that was having his rights trampled on by "Da Man"

392 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:20pm

re: #363 gmsc

NSFW joke:
I read Playboy just for the articles. I have to, all the other pages are stuck together!

I am glad you are feeling better, gmsc. The dead thread missed you. :-)

393 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:35pm

re: #313 Slumbering Behemoth

Kissing Saudi ass is kissing Saudi ass. Whether it's done sitting, standing, or spinning in a circle, it's still kissing ass.

But if you can spin in a circle without moving your grounded foot, you may be a Sufi master.

I don't think they kiss much Saudi ass, though. Are there Sufis in Saudi? They don't seem like folks the Saudis would have much patience for.

394 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:36pm

re: #387 Sharmuta

So why are folks on the right insisting on playing along?

I don't know. You tell me. Why are we focusing on a fucking "bow" and trying to equate Bush with this turd.

395 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:36pm

re: #370 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Moses > Jesus > Western Civilization > Enlightenment > USA. Break the chain and you don't get here and you don't go anywhere.

I'd replace "Western Civilization" with the more specific "Monks" > "Universities". (I don't count the Renaissance as Christian.)

396 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:58pm
397 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:23:07pm

re: #335 Charles

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]

From your link:

Little Green Footballs managed to turn up some video of Bush making the same bow....

Can we agree on one thing, please?

No, it was not "the same bow".

Leaving all other questions/issues aside for the moment:

It was not "the same bow". Even if a... erm... Playboy blogger says so.

398 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:23:18pm

re: #394 NYCHardhat

I don't know. You tell me. Why are we focusing on a fucking "bow" and trying to equate Bush with this turd.

It's less painful than the reality of what is happening to us?

399 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:23:45pm

re: #368 pink freud

Sure, anyone can post anything. Brooklyn red's point was that certain information - posted on a public blog - can be used against that person.

As for it being their business ....yes, it is theirs and everyone who is reading, which is the reason the person posts it in the first place ...to make it everyone's business (else, why post the info at all?)

don't know...I must have led with my chin...I understand the point perfectly but as for myself I'm very reluctant to tell others what to post...no big deal...I think some people here are way to explicit with their private affairs

400 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:23:47pm

re: #388 pink freud

Can you shoot me a personal email? My address book isn't set up on this laptop yet (in my temporary abode).

401 summergurl  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:23:55pm

re: #374 Irish Rose

Open registration?

402 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:23:57pm

Speaking of Hef, here he is in a Weezer video. Just don't bring too many dudes..

Beverly Hills

403 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:24:19pm

re: #398 kansas

It's less painful than the reality of what is happening to us?

I guess I will be purchasing that AR-15.

404 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:24:41pm

re: #375 Wendya

I tried them on the range with a Kimber 1911 and didn't have any misfeeds. Kimber makes a very good pistol and I've fed a wide variety of ammo including a magazine of really dirty wolf through it with no problems.

I love learnin' me some new stuff. What is "wolf"?

405 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:24:49pm

re: #361 Occasional Reader

Um... I *do* hope you're not qualifying all those of us who respectfully disagree with you on the Obama bow thing as "insane".

No, not at all! Some are insane, it's true. (See: Pamela Geller.)

Others are just wrong.

406 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:25:41pm
407 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:25:47pm

re: #404 Occasional Reader

I love learnin' me some new stuff. What is "wolf"?

Steel ammo. Inexpensive for the most part.

408 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:25:57pm

re: #71 kansas

Yes, and can anyone name one positive thing Islam has done for America?

Yes. Without it we wouldn't have that snappy Marine anthem..."From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli"....

Case rested.

409 gmsc  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:09pm

re: #392 pink freud

I am glad you are feeling better, gmsc. The dead thread missed you. :-)

Thanks!

Wait . . . the dead thread? What's Jerry Garcia's band up to now?

410 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:32pm

I'm actually pissed they qualified your claim to fame as uncovering a "reporting flub" by 60 minutes.

Turbo tax flubs, Bone headed flubs, what the flub?

411 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:38pm

re: #388 pink freud

PLUS having a father with a murder conviction who was just over for a visit. This gets stranger and stranger.

you have the right to remain silent... if you give up this right...

412 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:40pm

re: #355 Afrocity

What are these again? I live in an apartment.

1911 is the classic style of .45 caliber semi-auto handgun. The design dates to 1911.

413 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:40pm

Gotta go--until the morrow!

414 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:43pm

re: #332 Zimriel

G-d bless you, SFZionist; but Protestantism was founded by people who replaced a lot of Catholic tradition with readings of the Old Testament, and input from Judaism. For instance, Luther's Bible went back to the Hebrew, and whatever was not found there got relegated to "Apocrypha". Luther actually thought that making all these concessions would incite Jews to switch over (it didn't work, but that's another issue).

And Luther got mean and vengeful when his PR plan failed him, but yes, another issue. ;)

I don't deny the historical/textual connection at all, at least as regards the Tanach, but the fact is, historical Judaism since the beginning of the rabbinic era plays practically no role in Christian theology or consciousness.

I'll have rachmones--I just get crabby about 'Judeo-Christian' as a phrase. It puts an implied pressure on Judaism to be the kind of Judaism Christians envision. IMHO. So I tend to ask 'what does that mean'?

415 kansas  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:43pm

re: #408 coquimbojoe

Yes. Without it we wouldn't have that snappy Marine anthem..."From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli"....

Case rested.

Golf applause.

416 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:44pm

re: #405 Charles

No, not at all! Some are insane, it's true. (See: Pamela Geller.)

Others are just wrong.

But can we be insanely wrong?

417 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:26:49pm

re: #335 Charles

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]

Oh my goodness, I saw naked shoulders.

418 wiffersnapper  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:27:01pm

Dang, people are discovering (albeit too late) that brains are for thinking, not spoonfeeding!

419 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:27:20pm

re: #406 Afrocity

Don't worry Sharmuta. I have decided that it wouldn't have shit to do with it's life if it were not sweating me./

Arrogant. I like that.

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:27:22pm

re: #333 Occasional Reader

They ripped it off from the Borg, anyway.

(Um, I think buzzsaw was being sarcastic.)

Oh, I assumed so. Just being silly.

421 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:27:39pm

re: #400 ArmyWife

Sent.

422 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:27:50pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

Grab some paper out of your printer and fan yourself STAT. We can't have you all hot and bothered and such.

423 stuiec  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:27:57pm

re: #309 ggt

In the end, we are not going to live without crude oil and maintain the level of peace and prosperity we want. This is not Heaven, it is Earth. We have to make choices.

I'm pretty sure we'll be able to replace "rock oil" in our economy the same way we replaced whale oil. There's enough energy arriving on Earth from the Sun, or moving around the Earth with the gravitational pull of the Moon, or escaping as heat from the Earth's mantle, or emanating from the radioactive decay of the crust, that humankind can exist indefinitely without having to rely on the "fossilized sunshine" in oil and gas.

That said, there would be no reason to hurry to switch over from oil in a crash program -- but for the geopolitics of oil and the fact that American domestic production of oil and gas is off-limits in so many places where oil and gas happen to be.

424 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:28:12pm

re: #412 jcm

1911 is the classic style of .45 caliber semi-auto handgun. The design dates to 1911.

The Hand Cannon

425 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:28:14pm

re: #412 jcm

1911 is the classic style of .45 caliber semi-auto handgun. The design dates to 1911.

John Moses Browning's classic M-1911A--the earlier one had that nasty 45-degree grip.

426 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:28:57pm

re: #419 NYCHardhat

Arrogant. I like that.

You said it my fellow Daily Kos hate list maker.

427 gmsc  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:29:07pm

re: #71 kansas

Yes, and can anyone name one positive thing Islam has done for America?

You know what Islam has contributed to modern society? Zero! (Literally.)

428 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:29:23pm

re: #399 albusteve

don't know...I must have led with my chin...I understand the point perfectly but as for myself I'm very reluctant to tell others what to post...no big deal...I think some people here are way to explicit with their private affairs

Absolutely no disagreement with that last, albusteve.

429 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:29:24pm

re: #352 Irish Rose

Charles reads Playboy! *snicker*

/kidding, I know you just read it for the articles

I read it for the articles.

After my husband has read it for the naked ladies.

We get maximum use out of the magazine that way.

430 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:29:25pm

Wolf ammo comment thread:
[Link: www.gunandgame.com...]

431 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:29:33pm

re: #426 Afrocity

You said it my fellow Daily Kos hate list maker.

LMAO. I do feel like I walk with a swagger now.

432 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:30:38pm

re: #412 jcm

1911 is the classic style of .45 caliber semi-auto handgun. The design dates to 1911.

But that's not important right now...

-Airplane!

433 Mithrax  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:30:55pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

But that's not important right now...

-Airplane!

And don't call me Shirley!

434 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:09pm

re: #421 pink freud

Thanks. Replied!

435 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:13pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

But that's not important right now...

-Airplane!

I developed a drinking problem....

Airplane!

436 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:17pm

Email me NYChardhat.

437 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:37pm

re: #316 kansas

One of us made a comment about a weapon they have, and how they would use it if necessary. Someone else felt that comment could be used against them should they actually have to use it. Premeditated or something like that. The comment was removed. It really wasn't that bad.

My wife asked me if I had my black powder rifle registered.
I told her I was unaware that I needed to register it. I built it from parts.
Then I said "If we ever got in a situation where I needed my black powder rifle to defend this place, what fucking difference would it make, anyway?"

She doesn't disagree with the logic.

438 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:40pm

This really shouldn't cause much of a stir. It's a shame that more bloggers on the right aren't more honest about it. Many of them complained when Bush kissed the Saudis asses but now they pretend it never happened.

439 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:48pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

All bodily functions under control now?

440 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:53pm

re: #406 Afrocity

Don't worry Sharmuta. I have decided that it wouldn't have shit to do with it's life if it were not sweating me./

I'm really beginning to wonder about this one. Stinky Beaumont is throwing red flags at me, and I've been trying to ignore them, but it's getting more difficult.

441 David Simon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:53pm

re: #335 Charles

Playboy Magazine's blogger is also flabbergasted:

[Link: www.playboy.com...]

From your link:

The right-wing blogosphere seems determined to prove its intellectual vacuity on a daily basis

Huh? The dude writes for Playboy. A certain glass house aphorism comes to mind...

442 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:53pm

re: #424 NYCHardhat

The Hand Cannon

Well, yes.

I love both of mine.

And no, I have never attempted two-gun mojo.

443 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:31:57pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

Me too...I've got to take my nitro pills./

444 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:32:45pm

re: #423 stuiec

I'm pretty sure we'll be able to replace "rock oil" in our economy the same way we replaced whale oil. There's enough energy arriving on Earth from the Sun, or moving around the Earth with the gravitational pull of the Moon, or escaping as heat from the Earth's mantle, or emanating from the radioactive decay of the crust, that humankind can exist indefinitely without having to rely on the "fossilized sunshine" in oil and gas.

That said, there would be no reason to hurry to switch over from oil in a crash program -- but for the geopolitics of oil and the fact that American domestic production of oil and gas is off-limits in so many places where oil and gas happen to be.

Can the energy from the Sun produce the tangible products we rely on every day? This is about a lot more than energy. Sure, we can find subsitutes for plastics etc, but will they be affordable in the quanitity we need them.

445 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:33:12pm

re: #423 stuiec

We don't need to totally get out of it. Just enough to create a glut in the market.

446 SteveC  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:33:29pm

re: #440 Charles

I'm really beginning to wonder about this one. Stinky Beaumont is throwing red flags at me, and I've been trying to ignore them, but it's getting more difficult.

This is the XO. Launch the Vipers.

447 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:33:47pm

re: #440 Charles

I'm really beginning to wonder about this one. Stinky Beaumont is throwing red flags at me, and I've been trying to ignore them, but it's getting more difficult.

sorry i will be good.

448 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:33:53pm

re: #443 dapperdave

Me too...I've got to take my nitro pills./

Hell, I'm gonna have some pop, with real sugar.

449 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:34:16pm

re: #440 Charles

I'm really beginning to wonder about this one. Stinky Beaumont is throwing red flags at me, and I've been trying to ignore them, but it's getting more difficult.

WTF?

450 okiej  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:34:36pm

re: #231 Irish Rose

Speaking of guns, my fiance wants to buy me a nice little handgun to keep in the house, and we're going to do some shopping this weekend.

I have small hands and need something that is lightweight and easy to handle... what do you all suggest?

Ruger LCP

[Link: www.ruger.com...]

or,
Ruger LCR

[Link: www.ruger.com...]

451 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:34:37pm

re: #442 Dianna

Well, yes.

I love both of mine.

And no, I have never attempted two-gun mojo.

You are badass.

452 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:34:51pm

re: #440 Charles

I'm really beginning to wonder about this one. Stinky Beaumont is throwing red flags at me, and I've been trying to ignore them, but it's getting more difficult.

I'm totally creeped out dude

453 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:34:56pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

This really shouldn't cause much of a stir. It's a shame that more bloggers on the right aren't more honest about it. Many of them complained when Bush kissed the Saudis asses but now they pretend it never happened.

Which is an absolute own goal from those right-wing bloggers.

Those bloggers could have quite credibly linked their old posts bashing Bush, then cited Moore, then made some snark about Obama's "Change!1" and finally (having made their point) registered their disgust. No-one here would have noticed, except to link to them and say "what they said".

:facepalms:

454 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:35:10pm

re: #370 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Moses > Jesus > Western Civilization > Enlightenment > USA. Break the chain and you don't get here and you don't go anywhere.

Moses>Yehuda ha-Nasi>Gamliel>Rabbenu Gershenon>Haskalah--break that chain and you don't get here either, but it's also a different chain.

I'm not arguing against a deep historical connection between Christianity and it's Jewish roots. Just clarifying that Moses' importance to Christianity does NOT mean that post-Mosaic Jews were accorded an even vaguely equal cultural and theological input into the founding of what are now sometimes called 'Judeo-Christian values".

455 gmsc  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:35:20pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

But that's not important right now...

-Airplane!

re: #435 NYCHardhat

I developed a drinking problem....

Airplane!

Trivia Time: What was the name of the actor who played the guy who got into Stryker's cab in the beginning of the movie, and was still in the cab with the meter running at the end of the movie?

Hint: He's more known for his work in politics than his acting roles (Airplane was the only movie this man was ever in).

456 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:35:25pm

re: #355 Afrocity

What are these again? I live in an apartment.

They're fragmenting rounds. They break up when they hit a wall, so they don't go through and hurt people on the other side. If Chicago's handgun ban were repealed, such rounds in a docile caliber might be a good home defense system for you.

457 SteveC  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:35:37pm

re: #448 Walter L. Newton

Hell, I'm gonna have some pop, with real sugar.

I saw cases and cases of Mexican Coca-Cola in a warehouse store today! Do they still have real sugar as an ingredient?

458 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:35:45pm

re: #451 NYCHardhat

You are badass.

No, I'd be badass if I claimed to be good at two-gun mojo! I'm just a woman who shoots .45.

Though it's always cute at the range.

459 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:35:48pm

re: #452 albusteve

I'm totally creeped out dude

Seconded.
Too much similarity with recent events elsewhere, and I would not want that associated with LGF.

460 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:36:00pm

re: #242 jaunte

This Ruger LCP has been recommended for small hands:
[Link: www.ruger-firearms.com...]

Hubby has this Ruger revolver.

It's old, it's big and it's heavy.

And it will hit whatever it is generally pointed at; no need for a great deal of accuracy. Might be good in a situation that has you shaking in your boots.

461 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:36:02pm

re: #404 Occasional Reader

I love learnin' me some new stuff. What is "wolf"?

Russian made ammo. It's a steel cased bullet that has a coating over it that would leave a residue in your firearm. They've replaced the formula with something that is a little cleaner now. I buy it because I'm not a reloader and it's cheap(er). I ran it though everything but one Taurus that would misfeed every round.

462 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:36:35pm

re: #458 Dianna

No, I'd be badass if I claimed to be good at two-gun mojo! I'm just a woman who shoots .45.

Though it's always cute at the range.

Bold part equals badass in my book.

463 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:36:41pm

re: #455 gmsc

Trivia Time: What was the name of the actor who played the guy who got into Stryker's cab in the beginning of the movie, and was still in the cab with the meter running at the end of the movie?

Hint: He's more known for his work in politics than his acting roles (Airplane was the only movie this man was ever in).

Howard Jarvis of Prop. 19 fame.

464 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:37:04pm

re: #459 jwb7605

Seconded.
Too much similarity with recent events elsewhere, and I would not want that associated with LGF.

I wish I hadn't have said that tho...oh well

465 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:37:06pm

Afro - did you say your purchased this shotgun today? Because of an incident that happened today?

466 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:37:28pm

re: #460 reine.de.tout

Hubby has this Ruger revolver.

It's old, it's big and it's heavy.

And it will hit whatever it is generally pointed at; no need for a great deal of accuracy. Might be good in a situation that has you shaking in your boots.

I want one!
Does that need to be registered?

467 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:37:57pm

re: #460 reine.de.tout

My dad has a Spanish knockoff of that, I think. Heavy is right.

468 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:38:00pm

Lowering your head to take a medal and bowing when you meet someone are two different things. Combine this shit with the "we are not a christian nation" bullshit and Obama can kiss my fuckin ass.

469 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:38:28pm

re: #464 albusteve

I wish I hadn't have said that tho...oh well

It was either you or me, so now it's both. It's the right thing to worry about.

470 gmsc  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:38:49pm

re: #463 Dianna

Howard Jarvis of Prop. 19 fame.

Yep – Except that it was Prop. 13.

471 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:38:54pm

re: #462 NYCHardhat

Bold part equals badass in my book.

Cute as hell online, too, IMO. I'm a fan. :-)

472 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:38:57pm

re: #468 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Lowering your head to take a medal and bowing when you meet someone are two different things. Combine this shit with the "we are not a christian nation" bullshit and Obama can kiss my fuckin ass.

We aren't a Christian nation.

473 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:38:57pm

re: #453 Zimriel

Which is an absolute own goal from those right-wing bloggers.

Those bloggers could have quite credibly linked their old posts bashing Bush, then cited Moore, then made some snark about Obama's "Change!1" and finally (having made their point) registered their disgust. No-one here would have noticed, except to link to them and say "what they said".

:facepalms:

there is a general resistance to reality these days...there are gutters on all sides of the path you know?..wtf ever happened to brute honesty?

474 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:39:12pm

re: #452 albusteve

yeah now you say that...

475 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:39:40pm

I just think it's more than a little odd that someone would post this kind of stuff in a thread that's guaranteed to be checked out by the people I just linked to.

I'm not a big believer in coincidences, and this isn't the first time I've been seeing the red flags.

476 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:39:56pm

re: #469 jwb7605

It was either you or me, so now it's both. It's the right thing to worry about.

OK, I must have missed something.

477 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:40:05pm

re: #442 Dianna

Well, yes.

I love both of mine.

And no, I have never attempted two-gun mojo.

I have to admit, a guy at the range got me looking lustfully at his Wilson Combat custom piece the other day.

Hopefully Kimber didn't see me...

478 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:40:08pm

re: #457 SteveC

I saw cases and cases of Mexican Coca-Cola in a warehouse store today! Do they still have real sugar as an ingredient?

YES. People drive truckloads over the border (illicitly), and people pay too much for them at taquerias in the Mission for that pure sugar taste.

479 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:40:24pm

re: #473 albusteve

there is a general resistance to reality these days...there are gutters on all sides of the path you know?..wtf ever happened to brute honesty?

RACIST!
////
does that help answer your question?

480 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:40:30pm

re: #472 Walter L. Newton

GMTA.

481 Afrocity  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:40:32pm

re: #465 ArmyWife

Afro - did you say your purchased this shotgun today? Because of an incident that happened today?

It is from my uncle. Couldv'e had it months ago but felt uneasy, so I waited. Then just thought about classes. I finally committed to that and getting it. Iron posted this week said nothing was wrong and take course so I am. Honestly here (Chicago) it seems only the bad guys have them.

482 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:40:36pm

re: #460 reine.de.tout

Hubby has this Ruger revolver.

It's old, it's big and it's heavy.

And it will hit whatever it is generally pointed at; no need for a great deal of accuracy. Might be good in a situation that has you shaking in your boots.

whoa!...I love it...John Wayne!

483 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:41:22pm

re: #472 Walter L. Newton

Has any President in the history of our country ever said that shit? Especially in a foreign country. Fuck em.

484 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:41:24pm

re: #466 jwb7605

I want one!
Does that need to be registered?

Not here, that I know of.
I've never had any reason to even get the thing out, THANK GOODNESS.
I hope my life continues on that same path.

485 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:41:44pm

re: #470 gmsc

Yep – Except that it was Prop. 13.

You are right! Too many years and propositions.

486 Mithrax  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:41:51pm

Woot! Jays win 5-4!

Now if they can only keep up this pace in August :P

487 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:42:00pm

re: #474 brookly red

yeah now you say that...

I rarely judge...

488 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:42:02pm

re: #460 reine.de.tout

Hubby has this Ruger revolver.

It's old, it's big and it's heavy.

And it will hit whatever it is generally pointed at; no need for a great deal of accuracy. Might be good in a situation that has you shaking in your boots.

That's a good revolver. And if you run out of ammo, it's heavy enough to knock someone out with.

489 gmsc  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:42:49pm

re: #483 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Has any President in the history of our country ever said that shit? Especially in a foreign country. Fuck em.

John Adams once signed a document to that effect.

490 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:43:05pm

The two bows. Or three.

Obama

GWB kisses a guy later some bow to him while he doesn't and shakes their hand as they do. There is a cultural difference on some of this. In some of these countries it's perfectly normal for men to kiss and to hold hands. It's cultural.

I don't see a video of GWB bowing, but you know Pres. Obama would have been raked over the political coals as an arrogant bastard if he didn't bow to the Saudi's. He's in the limelight as far as protocols go, and is known not to understand them well. How many people has he offended now off handedly?

491 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:43:06pm

re: #488 Wendya

That's a good revolver. And if you run out of ammo, it's heavy enough to knock someone out with.

Sorta exactly the point.

492 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:43:07pm

re: #483 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Has any President in the history of our country ever said that shit? Especially in a foreign country. Fuck em.

Our own constitution says that. And Bush bowed, I don't care if it was to get the metal or get butt fucked, he bowed.

We are not a christian nation and Obama was speaking the truth.

493 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:43:14pm

re: #479 jwb7605

RACIST!
////
does that help answer your question?

actually it might...or something down that road

494 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:43:17pm

re: #484 reine.de.tout

Not here, that I know of.
I've never had any reason to even get the thing out, THANK GOODNESS.
I hope my life continues on that same path.

I hope so, too.
I just like antique black powder stuff.
My dad taught me to not require more than one shot.

495 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:43:22pm

re: #477 Occasional Reader

I have to admit, a guy at the range got me looking lustfully at his Wilson Combat custom piece the other day.

Hopefully Kimber didn't see me...

If your personal Kimber saw you, it probably watched you with the inanimate equivalent of an indulgent smile.

496 capitalist piglet  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:43:50pm

I posted this on the other thread, but by the time I had confirmed it, the thread was dead.

My best friend is a Navy veteran who served on a submarine rescue ship, the U.S.S. Kittiwake. He participated in the Gulf War.

He was given a medal by the Saudis, as was everyone he served with. It is authorized to be worn on American uniforms. It was accompanied by a certificate of appreciation from the Saudi king. I've seen the medal - it's quite elaborate.

I just thought that might come as a surprise to some folks. A lot of American military personnel have medals from the Saudis, apparently.

497 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:44:26pm

re: #486 Mithrax

Woot! Jays win 5-4!

Now if they can only keep up this pace in August :P

I dinged you up..I really like that attitude!

498 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:04pm
499 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:11pm

re: #475 Charles

I just think it's more than a little odd that someone would post this kind of stuff in a thread that's guaranteed to be checked out by the people I just linked to.

I'm not a big believer in coincidences, and this isn't the first time I've been seeing the red flags.

I see links all over the internet to LGF on this story. Throw them a creationist bone.

500 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:19pm

re: #475 Charles

I said all I got to say...

501 Mithrax  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:20pm

re: #497 HoosierHoops

I dinged you up..I really like that attitude!

As long as we can act as a spoiler to either those damn Yankees or Sox I don't care if we finish in 1st.

502 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:28pm

re: #472 Walter L. Newton

We aren't a Christian nation.

Yes, we are. Christianity does not have a place in the government, and rightly so, but it does inform our nations morals and values. Such values informed the Abolitionist movement, as well most of our social reform movements. America is a Christian nation.

503 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:35pm

re: #498 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Bye.

504 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:58pm

Some people can't keep their wits about them.

505 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:45:59pm

That was really lovely.

506 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:17pm

Here's a weapon I'd like:
[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

507 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:26pm

Whoa! I was about to report a nasty comment, and it vanished just as I clicked!

Magic!

BTW, I don't like seeing Thieves' talk anywhere.

508 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:32pm

SecretInternetDoucheBag

Soooooooo. was that an alias?

//

509 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:38pm

re: #440 Charles

I'm really beginning to wonder about this one. Stinky Beaumont is throwing red flags at me, and I've been trying to ignore them, but it's getting more difficult.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

510 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:39pm

Were I in the mood to buy a handgun for personal defense (I am not. I have never purchased a handgun; very, very, very, very seldom carry a handgun, haven't really owned all that many handguns, and do not see at the present time a real need for me to start buying handguns.) I would look real close at the various models of handguns that fire both the .410 shotshell and the .45 long Colt cartridge.

Then I'd load a mix of .410 buckshot and .45 long Colt.

But that's just me.

511 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:44pm

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]re: #481 Afrocity

Huh. Based on this, I thought you purchased this gun as you referenced the need for a FOID.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I was curious as to how you avoided the 24 hour waiting period that Illinois requires.

512 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:48pm

498 gets the gate. I'll go fire up the grill, its a good night for a troll roast.

513 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:46:51pm

re: #502 Dark_Falcon

Yes, we are. Christianity does not have a place in the government, and rightly so, but it does inform our nations morals and values. Such values informed the Abolitionist movement, as well most of our social reform movements. America is a Christian nation.

No, it is not. The founding fathers specifically wrote the Constitution to avoid being identified as a "Christian nation," or as any kind of religious nation. This is extremely well documented.

514 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:47:04pm

I missed it, I was right here and I missed it!

dang.

515 gmsc  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:47:20pm

bbl

516 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:47:24pm

re: #489 gmsc

John Adams once signed a document to that effect.

That would be the treaty which Washington drafted with the Bey of Tripoli. (Which the Tripolitanians and the rest of the Barbary gentlemen promptly trampled on, but I digress.) The point stands that Constitutionally, we are not a Christian nation.

Culturally, we are Massachusetts Puritans who pretend to be secular. Our ruling class is, anyway...

517 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:47:25pm

Cleanup on aisle#498
not very classy.

518 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:47:45pm

re: #509 Occasional Reader

Maybe I'm missing something here.

OR, write me.

519 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:47:52pm

re: #457 SteveC

I saw cases and cases of Mexican Coca-Cola in a warehouse store today! Do they still have real sugar as an ingredient?

Si.

520 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:47:56pm

re: #510 razorbacker

Were I in the mood to buy a handgun for personal defense (I am not. I have never purchased a handgun; very, very, very, very seldom carry a handgun, haven't really owned all that many handguns, and do not see at the present time a real need for me to start buying handguns.) I would look real close at the various models of handguns that fire both the .410 shotshell and the .45 long Colt cartridge.

Then I'd load a mix of .410 buckshot and .45 long Colt.

But that's just me.

the Taurus Judge...hell of a beast

521 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:48:00pm

re: #483 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Has any President in the history of our country ever said that shit?

Thomas Jefferson made that point very clear. Here are a couple examples..

"I am for freedom of religion, and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendency of one sect over another." --Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1799. ME 10:78

"Believing... that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." --Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptists, 1802. ME 16:281

522 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:48:02pm

re: #454 SanFranciscoZionist

Point taken. What I perceive to be "Judeo-Christian" is Mosaic Law coupled with the teachings of Jesus. That synergy put Man's mind right and put us on the correct path for the good things that came later.

523 sngnsgt  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:48:14pm

InternetDoucheBag is secret no more!

524 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:48:41pm

re: #518 Dianna

OR, write me.

tell me too, ok?

525 solomonpanting  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:49:06pm

re: #492 Walter L. Newton

We are not a christian nation and Obama was speaking the truth

Ours is not a Christian government, but is a Christian nation, if determined solely by religious affiliation.

526 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:49:30pm

re: #502 Dark_Falcon

Yes, we are. Christianity does not have a place in the government, and rightly so, but it does inform our nations morals and values. Such values informed the Abolitionist movement, as well most of our social reform movements. America is a Christian nation.

And the Hammurabi Code predates Hebrew moral and values, and it is evident to all document critics that many of the basic moral codes in the Hebrew Scriptures were borrowed from the Hammurabi Codes. So what, America is a Babylonian nation?

527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:49:34pm

Really working hard on learning rudimentary geography for the next few days. Can you really live without me?

528 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:49:44pm

Bush and Obama both bowed. The difference is Obama liked it.

/ That's my unsubstantiated story and I'm sticking to it (even though it's a total fabrication.)

529 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:50:20pm

Hmmm, if Obama said "Christian Nation"? That would translate to some other nations as as "We are not a Christian Theocracy"?

530 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:50:26pm

re: #527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nope. Sorry. Past that map behind your monitor and glance at it on occasion.

531 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:50:43pm

re: #514 ggt

You and I both blinked at the same time.

532 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:51:03pm

re: #531 dapperdave

You and I both blinked at the same time.

gmba

533 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:51:06pm

re: #525 solomonpanting

Ours is not a Christian government, but is a Christian nation, if determined solely by religious affiliation.

Which religion?

534 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:51:08pm

re: #524 ggt

tell me too, ok?

Write me!

535 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:51:20pm

re: #525 solomonpanting

Ours is not a Christian government, but is a Christian nation, if determined solely by religious affiliation.

I disagree.

536 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:51:21pm

re: #521 Mich-again

Thomas Jefferson made that point very clear. Here are a couple examples..

Pfft! Thomas Jefferson! What did he know?

/jefferson bible

537 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:51:48pm

re: #522 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Point taken. What I perceive to be "Judeo-Christian" is Mosaic Law coupled with the teachings of Jesus. That synergy put Man's mind right and put us on the correct path for the good things that came later.

OK--I may not like the phrase itself, but I know exactly what you mean, and agree, insofar as the result was the United States.

538 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:51:55pm

re: #520 albusteve

the Taurus Judge...hell of a beast

I thought that was the only one. It's not. Seems like just about anything chambered for the .45 long Colt will work just fine.

539 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:52:14pm
No, it is not. The founding fathers specifically wrote the Constitution to avoid being identified as a "Christian nation," or as any kind of religious nation. This is extremely well documented.

Washington's Farewell Address 1796

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. ...

Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of american, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the Independence and Liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts, of common dangers, sufferings, and successes. ...

What they wanted to avoid was a State religion, not a Christian nation. A nation built on Judeo-Christian traditions.

540 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:52:44pm

Here we go again.

541 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:52:48pm

re: #526 Walter L. Newton

And the Hammurabi Code predates Hebrew moral and values, and it is evident to all document critics that many of the basic moral codes in the Hebrew Scriptures were borrowed from the Hammurabi Codes. So what, America is a Babylonian nation?

Basically, folks, we're all West Semites here...

542 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:52:58pm

re: #526 Walter L. Newton

And the Hammurabi Code predates Hebrew moral and values, and it is evident to all document critics that many of the basic moral codes in the Hebrew Scriptures were borrowed from the Hammurabi Codes. So what, America is a Babylonian nation?

These sorts of conversations always end up with two sides talking past one another. We should all agree that our "Social Contract" is Roman (I like) and our dominant culture is Calvinist (I don't like). With the Babylonians, you're bringing usul al-fiqh - uh, I mean legal ethics into it; that largely depends on which state you're in, but if you're not from Louisiana then I'll throw in dear old England into that mix.

543 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:53:27pm

Groundhog Day!

544 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:53:28pm

re: #519 razorbacker

Si.

Jones Soda has cane sugar.

545 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:53:31pm

re: #518 Dianna

OR, write me.

Done.

546 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:53:49pm

re: #540 Charles

Here we go again.

Things would be much smoother if you quit inserting annoying facts, you know.

547 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:53:50pm

re: #542 Zimriel

Why do you say our social contract is Roman?

548 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:53:51pm

re: #536 Charles

HE OWNED A KORAN!11eleventy!(shows you can't trust him)
/

549 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:53:58pm

re: #513 Charles

No, it is not. The founding fathers specifically wrote the Constitution to avoid being identified as a "Christian nation," or as any kind of religious nation. This is extremely well documented.

Charles, I meant what I said only in the context of of America's culture. Our Constitution and laws are informed by that culture but are not religious in nature and are written so as to be neutral towards all religions. America is culturally Christian, legally it is not and should not be. I was trying to recognize America's culture, no more.

550 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:54:00pm

re: #544 hazzyday

Jones Soda has cane sugar.

Also, Hansen's.

551 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:54:04pm

re: #539 thebigolddog

Did you know Washington was a Deist? He never even wrote Jesus' name.

552 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:54:09pm

Hoo, boy... here we go.

/waiter? Check please.

553 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:54:35pm

re: #544 hazzyday

Jones Soda has cane sugar.

I can't find Jones. But Sam's has pallets of Mexican Coca-Cola all the time.

554 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:54:45pm

I agree that Louisianans follow the legal ethic of Hammurabi.

555 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:55:36pm

re: #552 Irish Rose

Hoo, boy... here we go.

/waiter? Check please.

Come on.Have one more beer with the Hoopster..Let's see what happens

556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:55:52pm

I'm not really a ding whore (yes, I am) but, I typed the following sentence...
"Biden is a douche"

8 times. EIGHT!

Guess how many dings I got? C'mon, guess.

A ZERO A POINT ZERO!

You can do better...

Just sayin....

557 SteveC  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:56:13pm

While I was an Birmingham, Alabama for my second heart surgery, we met a Methodist minister and his wife and developed a friendship that lasted for years. Once when we were visiting his home, he showed me and my father a gun that he described as a "22 on a 38 frame." It's main claim to fame was that it had belonged to the minister's cousin, Joel Chandler Harris.

The minister and his wife have both passed on and they didn't have any children. I have no idea what happened to that gun, but I hope that some one who appreciates it's history got it.

558 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:56:21pm

re: #538 razorbacker

I thought that was the only one. It's not. Seems like just about anything chambered for the .45 long Colt will work just fine.

I considered one...there are two barrel lengths...but I like my Stoeger 12ga...I did not pursue it any further....who knows what's out there....lots of options....I thought about cutting down a 20ga gasser for home D...of course there are problems with that concept

559 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:56:31pm
Did you know Washington was a Deist? He never even wrote Jesus' name

I know what he said to the Nation on his way out the door. A speech often quoted for its important admonishments. I note however these admonishments are often overlooked. I wonder why that is?

560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:56:42pm

re: #533 Walter L. Newton

Which religion?

The one of my choosing. What's your fucking problem!?

561 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:56:50pm

re: #556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm not really a ding whore (yes, I am) but, I typed the following sentence...
"Biden is a douche"

8 times. EIGHT!

Guess how many dings I got? C'mon, guess.

A ZERO A POINT ZERO!

You can do better...

Just sayin....

I gave you a pity upding.

562 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:56:51pm

re: #542 Zimriel

These sorts of conversations always end up with two sides talking past one another. We should all agree that our "Social Contract" is Roman (I like) and our dominant culture is Calvinist (I don't like). With the Babylonians, you're bringing usul al-fiqh - uh, I mean legal ethics into it; that largely depends on which state you're in, but if you're not from Louisiana then I'll throw in dear old England into that mix.

Bottom line is, our moral and values and laws were not given to us from god. It is a combination of many centuries of social experiments, and the actual foundation go as far back as Hammurabi. This is plain truth.

563 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:56:51pm

Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?

-James Madison

564 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:57:09pm

re: #537 SanFranciscoZionist

I should clarify. I said "correct path" when I should have said "path". History will ultimately judge if it was correct or not.

565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:57:16pm

re: #552 Irish Rose

Rose? How are you?

566 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:57:28pm

I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together.

-James Madison

567 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:57:32pm

re: #547 Dianna

Why do you say our social contract is Roman?

It's the ideal of different branches of government, each a rival to one another, none allowed to stay too powerful, and (mostly) with fixed terms of service. All of this is written down in a written code, amended through strict legal channels, and understood via precedent and legislation.

And we call one of our legislatures a "Senate", so there's that too.

568 solomonpanting  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:57:45pm
Religious Self-Identification of the U.S. Adult Population: 2008:

Total Christian...............................................173,402,000

Your results may vary.

569 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:57:48pm

Cool, a hot thread!

570 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:58:13pm

what if say Gary Coleman bestowed a medal

you prit-near have to get down on one knee to accept it

would that be considered a bow, curtsy, genuflection, etc ?

571 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:58:30pm

re: #558 albusteve

I'd not cut down a barrel, myself. But aren't there 18.5" 20 guage barrels available for the old Mossberg 500s?

572 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:58:33pm

re: #561 jwb7605

Pity dings are cool.

573 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:58:57pm

Since it's obviously Turtles all the way down.

We are a Turtle Nation!

;-P

574 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:59:35pm

re: #567 Zimriel

It's the ideal of different branches of government, each a rival to one another, none allowed to stay too powerful, and (mostly) with fixed terms of service. All of this is written down in a written code, amended through strict legal channels, and understood via precedent and legislation.

And we call one of our legislatures a "Senate", so there's that too.

Oh, dear.

575 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:59:41pm

re: #556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, Fats, I mean, after all.

It's pretty well public knowledge.

576 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:59:49pm

re: #572 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pity dings are cool.

I wish I could give you a BIG one. How's are you doing tonight with the smokes?

577 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:02pm

re: #573 jcm

A turtle changed my life. Not that you care.

578 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:07pm
579 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:12pm

God, I just love Benjamin Franklin. This hasn't much to do with the topic, it's just a bit of Franklin on religion that I adore.

You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been questioned upon it. But I cannot take your curiosity amiss, and shall endeavor in a few words to gratify it.

Here is my creed.
-I believe in one God, the creator of the universe.
-That he governs by his providence.
-That he ought to be worshipped.
-That the most acceptable service we render to him is doing good to his other children.
-That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this.

These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire,

I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity;
though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble.

I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure.

I love that. "I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble". He wrote that at eighty-four.

580 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:19pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians of any faith, in exclusion of all other Sects?

-James Madison

Building on Madison.

581 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:24pm

re: #573 jcm

Since it's obviously Turtles all the way down.

We are a Turtle Nation!

;-P

At least those of us who read Terry Pratchett!

582 Irish Rose  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:26pm

re: #565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Rose? How are you?

Not too bad tonight, trying to enjoy some ice cream.

583 Wendya  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:38pm

re: #570 Adrenalyn

would that be considered a bow, curtsy, genuflection, etc ?

I believe it would be considered embarrassing.

584 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:00:38pm

By virtue of the fact the framers sought enough to identify freedom of religion within the Constitution, it suffices to say this country is not a "Christian nation" in the way other countries affiliate their religion and government.

We are not a "Christian Republic" affording preferred status according to religious belief, quite the opposite.

I think a better argument, is that much of our law, and way of government drew inspiration from Judeo-Christian principles, thus inspiring the founders to be mindful of the history, and thrust of this belief, without making it a qualification for full citizenship.

Now, if you want to make the argument of why the hell we have our very own circus clown going to real religious states emphatically declaring this to begin with, & making apologies for us , I think is a valid discussion.

585 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:01:06pm
586 Wishing  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:01:10pm

re: #304 WhiteRasta

Here is a bad-ass all American pistol:

[Link: www.magnumresearch.com...]

Not for small hands.

Israeli gun, not American. They do make the Baby Eagle, for small handed peeps.

587 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:01:14pm

re: #574 Dianna

Oh, dear.

Am I in trouble again?

588 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:01:31pm

re: #562 Walter L. Newton

Bottom line is, our moral and values and laws were not given to us from god. It is a combination of many centuries of social experiments, and the actual foundation go as far back as Hammurabi. This is plain truth.

Walter, I can't agree with you there.

The Truth is the Truth. It matters not a whit if a person believes they come from G-d or from history. It endures.

589 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:01:36pm

re: #562 Walter L. Newton

Bottom line is, our moral and values and laws were not given to us from god. It is a combination of many centuries of social experiments, and the actual foundation go as far back as Hammurabi. This is plain truth.

Walter, I have to part company with that sentiment, because I believe we got the laws from God.
I agree with FBV, though.

All that stuff is faith. I've got my reasons, as do you and everybody else on this forum.

I actually think God predates the Hammurabi.

590 SteveC  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:01:40pm

re: #570 Adrenalyn

what if say Gary Coleman bestowed a medal

Witch medal? The International Honorary Order of the Lollypop Guild?

591 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:01:42pm

re: #564 Kreuzueber Halbmond

I should clarify. I said "correct path" when I should have said "path". History will ultimately judge if it was correct or not.

Noted.

592 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:02:11pm

re: #576 Walter L. Newton

Doin' great. Have had quite a bit of beer (Iron Fist Rule be damned!) not one smoke. I'm fine Walter. Thanks.

Have a (tad bit) shorter fuse. But, it's cool.

593 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:02:21pm

re: #558 albusteve

I considered one...there are two barrel lengths...but I like my Stoeger 12ga...I did not pursue it any further....who knows what's out there....lots of options....I thought about cutting down a 20ga gasser for home D...of course there are problems with that concept

Careful about that "cutting down" business. Leave 18 inches, plus a little extra (for the avoidance of doubt), or Uncle Same can get very, very cranky.

594 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:02:33pm

re: #554 Zimriel

I agree that Louisianans follow the legal ethic of Hammurabi.

er - what?

595 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:02:44pm

re: #573 jcm

Since it's obviously Turtles all the way down.

We are a Turtle Nation!

;-P

The Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles


Turtles are bright eyed, bushy tailed, fearless and unafraid folk with a fighter pilot attitude. They think clean, have fun a lot, and recognize the fact that you never get anyplace in life worthwhile unless you stick your neck out.


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

596 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:03:14pm

I will smoke again. But won't buy any.

597 capitalist piglet  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:03:19pm

re: #496 capitalist piglet

I posted this on the other thread, but by the time I had confirmed it, the thread was dead.

My best friend is a Navy veteran who served on a submarine rescue ship, the U.S.S. Kittiwake. He participated in the Gulf War.

He was given a medal by the Saudis, as was everyone he served with. It is authorized to be worn on American uniforms. It was accompanied by a certificate of appreciation from the Saudi king. I've seen the medal - it's quite elaborate.

I just thought that might come as a surprise to some folks. A lot of American military personnel have medals from the Saudis, apparently.

And lest anyone think I'm talking out of my rump : ), here is the Saudi medal members of our military received:

Image: medaldesertt.gif

598 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:03:27pm

re: #584 formercorpsman

I think a better argument, is that much of our law, and way of government drew inspiration from Judeo-Christian principles, thus inspiring the founders to be mindful of the history, and thrust of this belief, without making it a qualification for full citizenship.

I would add Greco-Roman thought, that gave birth to democracies and republics.

599 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:03:50pm

ok, I just thought of a reason to support Charles on this
and I hope it is his meaning

but if he is trying to say that 0bama is a bad as Bush
and trying to nudge the left for electing essentially, another Bush

then fine, I can dig it

600 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:06pm

re: #539 thebigolddog

Washington knew that Thomas Jefferson thought Christians were essentially kooks for believing the details in the Gospels, yet he chose Jefferson for a Cabinet position. And here you can read what Jefferson said about him after Washington's death.

"His mind was great and powerful ... as far as he saw, no judgment was ever sounder. It was slow in operation, being little aided by invention or imagination, but sure in conclusion ...

"Perhaps the strongest feature in his character was prudence, never acting until every circumstance, every consideration, was maturely weighed; refraining if he saw doubt, but, when once decided, going through his purpose, whatever obstacles opposed.

"His integrity was the most pure, his justice the most inflexible I have ever known ...

"He was, indeed, in every sense of the words, a wise, a good and a great man ... On the whole, his character was, in its mass, perfect ... it may truly be said, that never did nature and fortune combine more perfectly to make a man great ..."

200+ years ago they knew politics should be separate from Religion.

601 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:24pm

re: #593 Occasional Reader

Uncle Same

[sigh]

602 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:37pm

re: #587 Zimriel

Am I in trouble again?

I'm a little too tired and distracted to give you a full lecture, but I would try picking up Robin Lane Fox's book, The Classical World.

603 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:37pm

re: #594 reine.de.tout

er - what?

They gouge eyes.

(/uh, I don't know!)

604 jwb7605  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:40pm

So if you guys melt down over Glenn Beck and stuff, ponder this:

I'm a "Murder She Wrote" addict, and it just came on.

Later!

605 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:47pm

re: #588 ggt

Walter, I can't agree with you there.

The Truth is the Truth. It matters not a whit if a person believes they come from G-d or from history. It endures.

It doesn't matter if you agree with me here. Facts are facts, but there is no way I can make you agree to the truth. The Code of Hammurabi predated the Hebrew codes and laws and MANY of the codes and laws found in the Hebrew scriptures reflect that.

It's not a mystery, it's not even a fact that is debated by secular scholars.

So, there is a difference between belief and knowledge. Believe what you will, I know better.

606 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:50pm

Yawn. A large majority of American citizens since the founding of our country have been some flavor of Christian. The United States of America, by constitutional definition, is a country forbidden to have an established religion. Therefore, the country is not Christian (or anything else) but the citizens are (for the most part.) If all the citizens of the USA converted to Islam or Scientology or Flying Spaghetti Monsterism the country's religious status (none) would not change.

607 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:04:54pm

Okay... see y'all in a few days.

I am studying (non-USA) geography HARD.

Really. Didn't know how much I didn't know.

608 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:05:10pm

re: #585 Sharmuta

George Washington attitude toward Religion can be found in the man's own words. The admonition he gave to the country he fathered in his last, and one of his most important addresses. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit with your 2009 world view but his words are clear and unmistakable.

609 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:05:13pm

re: #571 razorbacker

I'd not cut down a barrel, myself. But aren't there 18.5" 20 guage barrels available for the old Mossberg 500s?

don't know...my Stoeger is 18.25 pistol grip pump and I love it...had a buddy who had a 20ga auto and I fell in love with thing years ago...plenty for home D
[Link: www.stoegerindustries.com...]

610 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:05:14pm

re: #604 jwb7605

So if you guys melt down over Glenn Beck and stuff, ponder this:

I'm a "Murder She Wrote" addict, and it just came on.

Later!

Glenn Beck is a buttplug.

611 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #596 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I will smoke again. But won't buy any.

You don't know how hard I am laughing right now.

When I quit, my still-smoking friends soon learned to run away at my approach.

"Sure I'll give you a cigarette. Wanna lay down right there and have me pump your lungs in and out for you too?"

612 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:05:32pm

re: #595 Dustyvet

The Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles


Turtles are bright eyed, bushy tailed, fearless and unafraid folk with a fighter pilot attitude. They think clean, have fun a lot, and recognize the fact that you never get anyplace in life worthwhile unless you stick your neck out.


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Turtles are bushy-tailed? Where are you getting these turtles from?

613 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:05:41pm

re: #596 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I will smoke again. But won't buy any.

Don't do neither, please.

614 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:06:14pm

re: #612 SanFranciscoZionist

Turtles are bushy-tailed? Where are you getting these turtles from?

Turtles R US...:)

615 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:06:25pm

re: #607 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay... see y'all in a few days.

I am studying (non-USA) geography HARD.

Really. Didn't know how much I didn't know.

Night, hold the smokes. I'm routing for ya.

616 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:06:27pm

re: #600 Mich-again

The man's words speak for themselves. It's amazing how people can simply deny them. Funny actually.

617 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:06:34pm

re: #605 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter if you agree with me here. Facts are facts, but there is no way I can make you agree to the truth. The Code of Hammurabi predated the Hebrew codes and laws and MANY of the codes and laws found in the Hebrew scriptures reflect that.

It's not a mystery, it's not even a fact that is debated by secular scholars.

So, there is a difference between belief and knowledge. Believe what you will, I know better.

You sound like the Christian Whacko's who know the truth as well.

Right and Wrong is Right and Wrong.

618 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:06:36pm

re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist

They gouge eyes.

(/uh, I don't know!)

I'm a Louisianan.
Never knew about the eye-gouging.
(/I don't know either).

619 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:06:49pm

I have to say, we are all more likely to learn something reading quotes from the Founding Fathers than from reading whatever stupid thing Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Keith Olberant, or Chris Matthews said today. Rock on Lizards.

620 pink freud  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:06:54pm

re: #592 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Doin' great. Have had quite a bit of beer (Iron Fist Rule be damned!) not one smoke. I'm fine Walter. Thanks.

Have a (tad bit) shorter fuse. But, it's cool.

W00T! Good luck, FBV, I am rooting for you!

621 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:07:02pm

re: #598 Sharmuta

I would add Greco-Roman thought, that gave birth to democracies and republics.

Not to mention the English legal code, in all its glory, and the Iroquois League.

622 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:07:03pm

re: #602 Dianna

I'm a little too tired and distracted to give you a full lecture, but I would try picking up Robin Lane Fox's book, The Classical World.

On Kindle at Amazon, $9.99.

623 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:07:08pm

It's not productive to say whether or not we get our morals and values from God. I believe that I get mine from God, and that so does the Pope; but that is on the plane of faith, and I cannot ethically apply it to history. Especially not American history, because if there's one thing I do know it's that we are not a Catholic nation.

(Mexico, on the other hand, really did initially constitute itself as a Catholic nation on independence, albeit a tolerant one. But they threw that off; not sure exactly when, but definitely during the time of the Revolution.)

624 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:07:19pm

re: #608 thebigolddog

As are his actions and the words he didn't use, such as the fact he didn't take Communion, and never wrote "Jesus Christ". No one denies that Christianity played a role, but if you're going to paint the Founders as deeply religious men, you'll get a fight, because it's just not true. They were mostly Deists, and that's a fact.

625 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:07:20pm

re: #596 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I will smoke again. But won't buy any.

That is a CLASSIC non-quitter "quitter" copout. Cold turkey, man. Just do it.

626 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:07:48pm

re: #598 Sharmuta

Indeed.

I have been trying to keep my posts tighter anymore. I have the tendency to write some long stuff.

Click my football. MTS. Marcus Tullius Cicero.

Now I am going over History of the World in my mind. The burning chariot scene.

627 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:07:50pm

Goodnight, hombres. I need to get some rest. I believe showing up for work late on my second day may not be met with enthusiasm! I have to break the new boss in SLOWLY to my little quirk of never being on time. Ever.

628 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:08:09pm

re: #622 jaunte

On Kindle at Amazon, $9.99.

My mom got it for me Christmas before last.

629 capitalist piglet  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:08:23pm

re: #621 SanFranciscoZionist

Not to mention the English legal code, in all its glory, and the Iroquois League.

Thank you for pointing that out! My aforementioned best friend is Mohawk, and he reminds me of this every chance he gets. : )

630 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:08:25pm

re: #625 Occasional Reader

That is a CLASSIC non-quitter "quitter" copout. Cold turkey, man. Just do it.

Remember the shorter fuse part?

FUCK OFF!

Nothing personal.

631 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:08:46pm

re: #607 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay... see y'all in a few days.

I am studying (non-USA) geography HARD.

Really. Didn't know how much I didn't know.

If you don't mind contributing some rice through a UN program, check out FreeRice.com. They have a geography game that is lots of fun.

632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:08:55pm

re: #627 ArmyWife

I'M IN CHESTER! HOW'S THE NEW JOB?

633 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:09:04pm

re: #628 Dianna

My spending at Amazon has increased quite a bit thanks to the readers at LGF.

634 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:09:27pm

re: #617 ggt

You sound like the Christian Whacko's who know the truth as well.

Right and Wrong is Right and Wrong.

No GGT, I'm not, what's your problem? I'm stating fact, set in stone fact, can't be changed, scholars have already gone around the block on this, over and over, it's settled.

I know fact, you know truth, truths are adaptable, facts are unchangeable.

635 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:09:29pm

re: #633 jaunte

My spending at Amazon has increased quite a bit thanks to the readers at LGF.

I know how that goes!

636 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:09:59pm

re: #626 formercorpsman

It wasn't meant to chastise you- but rather to contribute additionally to your comment. There was a lot of Enlightenment thinking that went into the formation of this country, and it's all worthy of being valued for what it helped to bring forth- our beloved America.

637 albusteve  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:10:11pm

re: #593 Occasional Reader

Careful about that "cutting down" business. Leave 18 inches, plus a little extra (for the avoidance of doubt), or Uncle Same can get very, very cranky.

I know...but I fired one, sawed off both ends....3 and 1...damn

638 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:10:32pm

re: #630 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Remember the shorter fuse part?

FUCK OFF!

Nothing personal.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

639 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:10:35pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'M IN CHESTER! HOW'S THE NEW JOB?

Chester New Jersey?

640 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:10:37pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Chester where, if I may ask?

641 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:10:41pm

re: #625 Occasional Reader

That is a CLASSIC non-quitter "quitter" copout. Cold turkey, man. Just do it.

I remember waay back in the day when a friend made the famous quote "I'll quit when the price hits a buck a pack." Ha. Its almost $7 a pack here now and people keep buying them.

642 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:10:41pm

re: #616 thebigolddog

The man's words speak for themselves. It's amazing how people can simply deny them. Funny actually.

He was a Mason. He would have to himself his own understanding of Christianity. What was intimate to him he would not reveal to an unkind interpretation. He could have had a personal knowledge of Christ and preferred not to exercise it in the open, or he could have been more like Franklin. These people did talk to each other about these things. Being a Deist does not exclude one from having a knowledge of Christ.

643 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:11:07pm

re: #638 Occasional Reader

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Duh- he's having withdrawl.

644 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:11:14pm

Any day that included the view from Dead Horse Point is a wonderful day. Today I had a wonderful day. Crashing tonight in Moab.

645 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:11:23pm

re: #633 jaunte

My spending at Amazon has increased quite a bit thanks to the readers at LGF.

Mine, too.
FORTUNATELY, much is available for Kindle, so now at least my house is no longer completely overrun with books. Just sort of tolerably overrun - a new room would be nice.

646 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:11:31pm

re: #638 Occasional Reader

What the fuck is wrong with you?

He's quitting smoking.

Oh, the joys of doing that when you're not so sick you don't care!

647 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:11:36pm

re: #594 reine.de.tout

It was the Babylonian inspiration for the 10 commandments.

648 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:11:39pm

re: #642 hazzyday

He was a Mason. He would have to himself his own understanding of Christianity. What was intimate to him he would not reveal to an unkind interpretation. He could have had a personal knowledge of Christ and preferred not to exercise it in the open, or he could have been more like Franklin. These people did talk to each other about these things. Being a Deist does not exclude one from having a knowledge of Christ.

No, as a Mason, he would have to have his own understanding of god.

649 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:11:49pm

re: #636 Sharmuta

I know that Sharmuta, its cool.

I really was thinking about the pot burning scene from the movie though.

650 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:12:02pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

NO WAY! I'M IN CHESTER!

651 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:12:06pm

re: #634 Walter L. Newton

No GGT, I'm not, what's your problem? I'm stating fact, set in stone fact, can't be changed, scholars have already gone around the block on this, over and over, it's settled.

I know fact, you know truth, truths are adaptable, facts are unchangeable.

From your original post:
" Bottom line is, our moral and values and laws were not given to us from god"

There is no way this can be proven or disproven.

652 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:12:15pm

re: #647 Killgore Trout

It was the Babylonian inspiration for the 10 commandments.

I was wondering why he specified "Louisianans".

653 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:12:25pm

re: #642 hazzyday

His words speak for themselves. Plain and clear for all to read and understand. QED.

654 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:12:54pm

re: #644 bosforus

Any day that included the view from Dead Horse Point is a wonderful day. Today I had a wonderful day. Crashing tonight in Moab.

Hey Bos, long time no see how are things? You still in Happy Valley?

655 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:13:09pm

re: #638 Occasional Reader

Oh, c'mon. I thought it was funny.

Sorry if I offended. You know I love ya.

Really. Was just a joke.

I'm fine.

656 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:13:47pm

re: #652 reine.de.tout

I was wondering why he specified "Louisianans".

I think he was just taking the long way around to a joke. Sometimes the direct route is best.

657 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:13:47pm

re: #650 ArmyWife

NO WAY! I'M IN CHESTER!

Way! I am right down the street!

658 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:13:55pm
659 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:14:07pm

re: #645 reine.de.tout

My kids are close to moving out, so I'm anticipating library room.

660 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:14:51pm

re: #649 formercorpsman

I know that Sharmuta, its cool.

I really was thinking about the pot burning scene from the movie though.

Pot burning is another thread. ;)

661 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:14:56pm

re: #657 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm going to wave out of my window. Tell me if you can see me.

662 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:14:57pm

re: #654 coquimbojoe

Hey Bos, long time no see how are things? You still in Happy Valley?

Yup. Good to hear from you too! I've been MIA for the last two months for the same reason I'm in Moab tonight and Blanding tomorrow night. Work. I've been driving all over Utah. I've put in 15,000 miles. This is the last week. :)

663 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:15:11pm

re: #658 Iron Fist

You know fist, I want to respond to that so bad.

I ain't gonna do it brother.

664 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:15:16pm

re: #624 Sharmuta

As are his actions and the words he didn't use, such as the fact he didn't take Communion, and never wrote "Jesus Christ". No one denies that Christianity played a role, but if you're going to paint the Founders as deeply religious men, you'll get a fight, because it's just not true. They were mostly Deists, and that's a fact.

I would say they were deeply religious, many of them, or at least very interested in religion--just not necessarily traditionally religious. Which I admire in them--they thought all their principles through, and came to their own conclusions.

I think the Adamses stayed pretty traditional Congregationalists. (I'm sorry, I know I'm always on about John Adams, I'm very slowly working through a biography of him, and occasionally I have a new factoid.)

665 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:15:18pm

re: #651 ggt

From your original post:
" Bottom line is, our moral and values and laws were not given to us from god"

There is no way this can be proven or disproven.

It is FACT that the basic 10 statements of the Hebrew scriptures were based on the Code of Hammurabi. Now, if you want to figure out if god gave this to the Babylonians, go for it.

666 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:15:36pm

re: #658 Iron Fist

That's right up there with being the official taste tester for the Moonlight Bunnyranch.

Heh.

You'll get that job, right after I land my gig as the personal massage therapist for the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show.

667 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:15:42pm

re: #661 ArmyWife

I'm going to wave out of my window. Tell me if you can see me.

Are you a little person?

668 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:00pm

The USA was conceived and founded by religious men. There is no way to say this is not the case. We just got lucky and the Christianity our founders embraced was also infused with many of the tenets of the Enlightenment, where reason and later, science, began to replace the super-natural and superstitious. So, we got the Sermon on the Mount mixed with a little Hobbes and a nice dose of Locke.

We still live in a religious country - perhaps not as Christian as some wish. But, a belief in a higher being (God) was almost universal in the USA until only recently. That is also a fact that cannot be disputed.

The age we live in has been jaded and altered by the cultural upheavals that occurred in the last century. Europe was quite religious up until the Great War and then a cultural shift took place. The USA was slower to change as we were insulated to the advent of all the "isms" that took root in Europe and other parts of the world. We are still considerably more Christian than any other western country by far.

So, what is wrong with that? let people believe what they want to believe, just as long as nobody tells me what to worship (or not worship)

669 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:02pm

re: #662 bosforus

Yup. Good to hear from you too! I've been MIA for the last two months for the same reason I'm in Moab tonight and Blanding tomorrow night. Work. I've been driving all over Utah. I've put in 15,000 miles. This is the last week. :)

Nice. Hows the new bride?

670 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:03pm

re: #657 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Way! I am right down the street!

I asked you, Chester where.

671 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:04pm

re: #593 Occasional Reader

Careful about that "cutting down" business. Leave 18 inches, plus a little extra (for the avoidance of doubt), or Uncle Same can get very, very cranky.

Is he married to Auntie Mame?

672 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:05pm

re: #608 thebigolddog

George Washington attitude toward Religion can be found in the man's own words. The admonition he gave to the country he fathered in his last, and one of his most important addresses. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit with your 2009 world view but his words are clear and unmistakable.

And then you went and mistook them.

Washington was using the "bully pulpit" to call for a religious and conservative popular culture. He wouldn't have dreamt of legislating a faith for all Americans to follow, or some kind of "dhimmitude" where Christians would be preferentially drafted into the elite.

In short, he wanted a religious people, not a religious state..

673 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:27pm

re: #667 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Umm.. well, not in the Wizard of Oz sense, but I'm 5'2. With my shoes on.

674 traderjoe9  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:30pm

re: #155 Charles

Right. He didn't bow. He just put his hands by his side, bent forward from the waist, and received a medal.

It was NOT A BOW. Just keep telling yourself that.

I agree; it's disgusting that Bush, Obama, and past U.S presidents would continue to associate with this evil country. Saudi Arabia is perhaps the prime violator of human rights in the world (and yet has the audacity to accuse Israel of human rights violations) and while US presidents should not be expected to bow to any foreign diplomat, especially not to one from Saudi Arabia.

What upsets me, and I'm sure everybody else - if this hasn't already been mentioned in this thread - is Barack and Michelle Obama's disregard for established etiquette regarding the queen. Moreover, Obama - a guest in the queens palace - gives the queen a simple handshake. Yet to Saudi Arabia he reflexively bows down.

A case could be made that this is just a simple mistake or isolated incident, and that Michelle simply wasn't informed about an etiquette six decades in the making. However, then you could also make the case that all of Obama's other incidents and associations have also been one big coincidence.

I'm in no way suggesting that Obama is a secret Muslim - that's preposterous. But nobody can deny that a great many of his "mentors" and "advisers" and "inspirations" are anti-American, anti-Semite, communist garbage. These connections have been played down and ignored by the media as much as possible, and liberals simply don't give a shit, considering they are also anti-American, anti-Semite garbage.

It seems I went on a tangent. My point is - Obama's bowing to Saudi Arabia, and his and Michelle's apparent disregard for the palace's etiquette isn't merely one incident. In reality, its very reflective of the president himself.

675 Gus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:43pm

re: #56 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in today. I've been a bad, bad conservative.

Evening.

Caught this on O'Reily this afternoon in which Newt Gingrich said on Obama:

Now the fact is the State Department cannot learn after 30 years of trying to deal with the Iranian dictatorship, after 20 years of trying to deal with the North Korean dictatorship, after years of trying to get the U.N. to do something good, after years of trying to get the Europeans to do something good, we keep coming back with this naive view that somehow if we smile at him, if we say nice things to them, if we bow to the Saudi king, which the president did, which I thought was frankly not very good when President Bush did it. And I don't think it's very good when President Obama does it. I don't think Americans ought to bow to kings.

Thus Newt Gingirch stated on nationwide TV "if we bow to the Saudi king, which the president did, which I thought was frankly not very good when President Bush did it." You might be in close company with Newt Gingrich on the matter.

Link also has the transcript.

676 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:51pm

re: #638 Occasional Reader

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Drunk and jonesing.

677 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:53pm

re: #670 Walter L. Newton

VA

678 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:16:57pm

re: #645 reine.de.tout

Mine, too.
FORTUNATELY, much is available for Kindle, so now at least my house is no longer completely overrun with books. Just sort of tolerably overrun - a new room would be nice.

My music buying has gone way up with the music threads.

679 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:17:00pm

So, I'm watching the O'Reilly Factor. Apparently, the Obama administration is claiming that Obama did not bow to the King of Saudi Arabia.

Up until now, I didn't care that he bowed. Now I am angry. Why the Hell is he denying something that he obviously did and was videotaped doing? That's just stupid.

680 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:17:25pm

re: #624 Sharmuta

As are his actions and the words he didn't use, such as the fact he didn't take Communion, and never wrote "Jesus Christ". No one denies that Christianity played a role, but if you're going to paint the Founders as deeply religious men, you'll get a fight, because it's just not true. They were mostly Deists, and that's a fact.

Washington and John Adams and some other people attended a Catholic Mass in Philadelphia during the Continental Congress. Thought that was an interesting factoid as well. Adams was a little taken aback by all the bling in the church, but liked the homily. He wrote home to Abigail about it.

681 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:17:33pm

re: #677 ArmyWife

VA

Ok, I was just wondering.

682 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:17:45pm

re: #669 coquimbojoe

Nice. Hows the new bride?

Doing great, other than battling depression due to my absence. But I can hardly blame her for that.

683 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:17:53pm

re: #679 NukeAtomrod

Yes, the stupidity is annoying.

684 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:17:58pm

re: #679 NukeAtomrod

He's either stupid or he wants people to be distracted.

685 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:17:59pm

re: #670 Walter L. Newton

I asked you, Chester where.

Chester, VA... 20 minutes, South of Richmond, VA!

686 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:18:11pm

re: #647 Killgore Trout

It was the Babylonian inspiration for the 10 commandments.

Born in Arizona,
Moved to Babylonia,
King Tut!

687 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:18:12pm

Ok, seriously. I'm going to bed. FBV, stay OFF Rt. 10 tomorrow if you are feeling grouchy from withdraws!

688 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:18:16pm

re: #665 Walter L. Newton

It is FACT that the basic 10 statements of the Hebrew scriptures were based on the Code of Hammurabi. Now, if you want to figure out if god gave this to the Babylonians, go for it.

Sigh, this is an unproductive conversation and I'm not going to continue it.

689 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:18:17pm

re: #664 SanFranciscoZionist

I would say they were deeply religious, many of them, or at least very interested in religion--just not necessarily traditionally religious. Which I admire in them--they thought all their principles through, and came to their own conclusions.

I think the Adamses stayed pretty traditional Congregationalists. (I'm sorry, I know I'm always on about John Adams, I'm very slowly working through a biography of him, and occasionally I have a new factoid.)

I would say they were deeply spiritual men. Many of them had strong opinions on organized religion.

690 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:18:33pm

re: #685 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Chester, VA... 20 minutes, South of Richmond, VA!

Did you know Army Wife is in Chester VA?

691 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:18:44pm

re: #629 capitalist piglet

Thank you for pointing that out! My aforementioned best friend is Mohawk, and he reminds me of this every chance he gets. : )

No problem! I like to bring up the Iroquois League, it lets me prove that I can spell "Iroquois".

692 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:18:47pm

re: #680 SanFranciscoZionist

Washington and John Adams and some other people attended a Catholic Mass in Philadelphia during the Continental Congress. Thought that was an interesting factoid as well. Adams was a little taken aback by all the bling in the church, but liked the homily. He wrote home to Abigail about it.

I grew up Congregationalist, and our church was nice, but restrained.

693 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:19:15pm

re: #688 ggt

Sigh, this is an unproductive conversation and I'm not going to continue it.

Typical response. I have no problem with your faith, but you can't address my facts.

694 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:19:18pm
695 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:19:29pm

re: #656 Killgore Trout

I think he was just taking the long way around to a joke. Sometimes the direct route is best.

Well, for me it is, that's fer sure.
I don't usually understand "subtle".

696 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:19:39pm

re: #666 Occasional Reader

You'll get that job, right after I land my gig as the personal massage therapist for the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show.


Need an assistant?

We're cool, no?

697 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:19:41pm

re: #672 Zimriel

Uh huh. They are clear and unmistakeably. Easily understood by any honest person.

Evidently my words on the other hand are really obtuse since you seem to not have understood them at all.

698 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:20:09pm

re: #676 MandyManners

Drunk and jonesing.

Savage around?

699 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:20:15pm

re: #679 NukeAtomrod

You realize that you answered your own question with your last line, don't you?

700 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:20:16pm
701 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:20:23pm

re: #687 ArmyWife

That's my short cut! Watch out!

702 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:20:42pm

re: #693 Walter L. Newton

Typical response. I have no problem with your faith, but you can't address my facts.

No, I'm afraid you're being a bit hectoring. GGT was addressing the ultimate source of morality, not the textual descent of a certain bit.

Not a criticism, just an observation.

703 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:20:51pm

secrist...OUT!

704 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:20:57pm

re: #701 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

eeekkkk! Goodnight!

705 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:21:13pm

re: #702 Dianna

No, I'm afraid you're being a bit hectoring. GGT was addressing the ultimate source of morality, not the textual descent of a certain bit.

Not a criticism, just an observation.

Thank you, Dianna.

706 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:21:14pm

Re, Louisiana and Hammurabi: Louisiana follows the Civil Code for its basic law, which is based on Roman law, which is based on older Near Eastern codes like the Greeks', which ultimately derives from the Near Eastern codes of which Hammurabi's is the best known, although we might also cite Lipit-Ishtar etc.

707 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:21:15pm

re: #696 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Need an assistant?

We're cool, no?

Yeah, I suppose.

708 Silvergirl  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:21:15pm

re: #668 Desert Dog

There you have a succinct little statement on religion and the founding of the country that I can find no fault with. Nicely done.

709 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:22:06pm

re: #698 coquimbojoe

Savage around?

Who?

710 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:22:21pm

re: #694 buzzsawmonkey

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

Yes, the archaeological records of the Code of Hammurabi predate any discovered record of the Biblical codes. So what?

Does this "prove" that the Biblical laws which resemble those in the Code of Hammurabi are derived from Hammurabi--or merely that the Code of Hammurabi was an imperfect form of earlier revelation? In other words, that the imperfect perception of the divine at the time of Hammurabi contained--imperfection notwithstanding--some elements of the true?

Or, let's take another tack. Let us say that the laws set forth by Hammurabi were merely the "result of many centuries of social experiment." Does that preclude the Divine hand in the guidance of those "social experiments"--or, more mundanely, the fact that the "social experiments" which proved beneficial were those which were favored by the Deity? No.

Well, actually, yes. If you have read any documentary criticism of Hebrew scriptures, you already know that most scholars agree that there was a borrowing.

And you are probably aware of other tales in Hebrew scriptures that can be traced to earlier sources.

And for you last point, you can only assume, believe, hope that those points are true, you have no facts to back them up.

711 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:22:28pm
712 coquimbojoe  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:23:14pm

re: #709 MandyManners

Who?


Savagenation he was always drunk and unruly. Hiya Mandy how are things and hows junior?

713 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:23:38pm

re: #668 Desert Dog

We still live in a religious country

As evidence to your point, Courts regularly sentence alcohol-related offenders to attend X number of AA meetings and/or rehab where they preach the 12-step method. And unless there is a new PC 12-step program, its chock full of references to G*.

714 traderjoe9  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:24:09pm

re: #605 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter if you agree with me here. Facts are facts, but there is no way I can make you agree to the truth. The Code of Hammurabi predated the Hebrew codes and laws and MANY of the codes and laws found in the Hebrew scriptures reflect that.

It's not a mystery, it's not even a fact that is debated by secular scholars.

So, there is a difference between belief and knowledge. Believe what you will, I know better.

Doesn't rally matter. Nobody's following them anyway.

715 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:24:32pm

re: #694 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe he's the God of all people? Now I wonder does the Koran fit into this picture? Because one things for sure, our nations founding fathers were not Muslims.

716 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:24:41pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

I would say they were deeply spiritual men. Many of them had strong opinions on organized religion.

Yeah, fair enough. I think what I love about all of them is that they seem free of that haunting fear about the afterlife that so haunts Calvinist writings from an earlier time. Franklin's assumption is just so simple: if he is wrong about the divinity of Jesus, he will find out about it in the due course of time. No fear of damnation, a simple assumption in the justice and fair play of the universe.

717 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:24:43pm

re: #705 ggt

Thank you, Dianna.

Sorry. In a sense -you are right, we are talking about two different things, belief and knowledge, which are not always compatible. I have been too harsh.

718 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:25:06pm

re: #711 Iron Fist

Oh no. Lets put it this way. Something totally befitting if we were bellied up to the bar though.

719 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:25:51pm

Our core Judeo-Christian morals, our embracing of "natural laws" (some call them "God given"), our American work ethic and ingenuity, and our luck to be at the right place at the right time has all combined to make the USA what it is today. Downgrade, dismiss or flat out deny Christianity had a large part in shaping this country all you want, it will still be true.

It was a combination of many things, that has made us what we are today. Sadly, I think the some of latest influences that shaping our country are dangerous. Political correctness and moral equivalency will be our downfall. They both veer to far from the formula that has allowed us to thrive were so many other cultures and civilizations have not.

720 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:01pm

yahoo reporting movie stars are making less per film now. How heartbreaking. ///

721 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:04pm

re: #694 buzzsawmonkey

or, more mundanely, the fact that the "social experiments" which proved beneficial were those which were favored by the Deity? No.

"Why does God need a starship to 'experiment'?"

-James T. Kirk

722 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:15pm

re: #717 Walter L. Newton

Sorry. In a sense -you are right, we are talking about two different things, belief and knowledge, which are not always compatible. I have been too harsh.

apology accepted. I was trying to convey that, but it is too late at night for my mind to come up with the correct wording. I'm not much for late-night semantics.

723 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:28pm

re: #720 Sharmuta

yahoo reporting movie stars are making less per film now. How heartbreaking. ///

BAILOUT!

724 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:41pm

I'm going to go take a walk, then figure out if I'm going to try to finish the piece of dialogue I've been ruminating over.

If a fight breaks out while I'm out, I'm sorry.

725 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:52pm

re: #686 Spare O'Lake

Born in Arizona,
Moved to Babylonia,
King Tut!

Buried with a donkey
He's my favorite honkey

726 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:58pm

re: #716 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, fair enough. I think what I love about all of them is that they seem free of that haunting fear about the afterlife that so haunts Calvinist writings from an earlier time. Franklin's assumption is just so simple: if he is wrong about the divinity of Jesus, he will find out about it in the due course of time. No fear of damnation, a simple assumption in the justice and fair play of the universe.

Ben is my second favorite Founder after Washington- what an amazing man. What an amazing life.

727 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:26:59pm

re: #720 Sharmuta

yahoo reporting movie stars are making less per film now. How heartbreaking. ///

Bail 'em out!

728 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:27:09pm

re: #723 Occasional Reader

BAILOUT!

Tea Party!

729 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:27:12pm

re: #724 Dianna

I'm going to go take a walk, then figure out if I'm going to try to finish the piece of dialogue I've been ruminating over.

If a fight breaks out while I'm out, I'm sorry.

Are you addressing that to me? :)

730 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:27:31pm

re: #323 Killian Bundy

Electricity Grid in U.S. Penetrated by Spies

/so, will they turn it off before Obama makes it too expensive to afford anyway?

Was that the Con-nuker bug?

731 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:27:38pm

re: #728 Sharmuta

Tea Party!

Ron Paul!

732 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:27:45pm

re: #712 coquimbojoe

Savagenation he was always drunk and unruly. Hiya Mandy how are things and hows junior?

I had no idea.

Things are quiet here.

733 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:27:54pm

re: #717 Walter L. Newton

Sorry. In a sense -you are right, we are talking about two different things, belief and knowledge, which are not always compatible. I have been too harsh.

Judaism was the first monotheistic religion. It has never pretended to be the source of all morality.

734 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:28:04pm

re: #725 Kosh's Shadow

Buried with a donkey
He's my favorite honkey

Born in Arizona
Got a Condo made of Stone-uh.

735 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:28:04pm

re: #679 NukeAtomrod

So, I'm watching the O'Reilly Factor. Apparently, the Obama administration is claiming that Obama did not bow to the King of Saudi Arabia.

Up until now, I didn't care that he bowed. Now I am angry. Why the Hell is he denying something that he obviously did and was videotaped doing? That's just stupid.

He's trusting in his Sith mind trick. Darth Bama plans to waves his hand and say. "This is not the gesture you were looking for."

736 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:28:06pm

re: #731 Slumbering Behemoth

Ron Paul!

Glenn Beck!

737 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:28:10pm

This is interesting.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

738 itellu3times  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:28:17pm

Want some more reasons to fear and loathe the Obamanation?

From Powerline:
Curtailing our representative democracy -- the Obama administration signals its intent

The Obama administration continues to populate key legal positions with leftist lawyers and, especially, law professors. The selection of Harold Koh, the dean of Yale Law School, to be the State Department's legal advisor is the latest example, and among the most disconcerting.

And now, back to American Idol.

739 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:28:38pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

Glenn Beck!

Group Sargassum!

740 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:28:40pm

re: #457 SteveC

I saw cases and cases of Mexican Coca-Cola in a warehouse store today! Do they still have real sugar as an ingredient?

To hell with the sugar--do they still use the ORIGINAL ingredient?

741 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:29:14pm

re: #679 NukeAtomrod

So, I'm watching the O'Reilly Factor. Apparently, the Obama administration is claiming that Obama did not bow to the King of Saudi Arabia.

Up until now, I didn't care that he bowed. Now I am angry. Why the Hell is he denying something that he obviously did and was videotaped doing? That's just stupid.

is his middle name off limits again?
i did hear it was pronounced loudly w/ emphasis when he was introduced in
turkey. barack HUSSEIN obama to much applause.
the problem is, o bowed impetuously, gushing w/ enthusiasm to impress the king w/ his subservience.
and o has seen the video.
he is denying out of desperation in the face of evidence that refutes his words.
it is not possible to respect him.

742 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:29:52pm

re: #713 Mich-again

As evidence to your point, Courts regularly sentence alcohol-related offenders to attend X number of AA meetings and/or rehab where they preach the 12-step method. And unless there is a new PC 12-step program, its chock full of references to G*.

Isn't it "a higher power"?

743 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:30:09pm

re: #733 Spare O'Lake

Judaism was the first monotheistic religion.

I thought Akhenaten started the first one? I am not a historian.

744 JimmyTheClaw  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:30:28pm

re: #23 Charles

George W. Bush pandered to the Saudis throughout his entire presidency. If you don't think that's true, you're in denial.

And he was following a long line of presidents who pandered to the Saudis. Barack Obama's bow was the least offensive thing a US President has done.

amen

745 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:30:34pm

re: #721 Occasional Reader

"Why does God need a starship to 'experiment'?"

-James T. Kirk

You're quoting Star Trek V? That movie was the worst of the Star Trek Movies.

746 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:30:41pm

I'm calling it a night.

IT'S A "NIGHT".

There. I said it.

Good night.

747 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:30:43pm

Domestically produced Coke uses corn sweeteners instead of real sugar because our Government put a tariff on imported sugar.

748 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:30:54pm

re: #733 Spare O'Lake

Judaism was the first monotheistic religion. It has never pretended to be the source of all morality.

Wrong... this guy sort of forced it, but he came up with the idea first, at least in recorded history...

"The first monotheist in history seems to be the penultimate Hyksos King of Avaris, named Apophis, who took Sutheck (Set) to be his sole deity, and enforced this god on the population by means of banning worship of all other gods, and allowing the sacred animals of the Egyptians to be killed. Following the second intermediate period, Akhnaton replicated the monotheism of Apothis but with the Aten disk as the one-god of monotheism."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

749 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:04pm

weet dreams all!

750 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:05pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

Glenn Beck!

Alex Jones!
/flop

751 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:05pm

re: #679 NukeAtomrod

So, I'm watching the O'Reilly Factor. Apparently, the Obama administration is claiming that Obama did not bow to the King of Saudi Arabia.

Up until now, I didn't care that he bowed. Now I am angry. Why the Hell is he denying something that he obviously did and was videotaped doing? That's just stupid.

Perhaps they're trying to fuel the fire the right seems to want to have over this thus keeping our eyes off the real ball? Watch the Birdie.

752 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:26pm

re: #750 Slumbering Behemoth

Illuminaughty!

753 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:29pm

re: #724 Dianna

I'm going to go take a walk, then figure out if I'm going to try to finish the piece of dialogue I've been ruminating over.

If a fight breaks out while I'm out, I'm sorry.

sorry that you missed it?

754 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:34pm

re: #407 calcajun

Steel ammo. Inexpensive for the most part.

Make that steel case ammo- not for reloading, as opposed to brass case ammo.

755 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:35pm

re: #745 Dark_Falcon

You're quoting Star Trek V? That movie was the worst of the Star Trek Movies.

Yeah, but it was a memorable line.

along with:

"first star to the right . . ."

756 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:31:53pm

re: #699 razorbacker

You realize that you answered your own question with your last line, don't you?

Yes. And, unfortunately, I am also seeing a pattern of behavior. Obama says "Don't be ridiculous. I am not a socialist. I don't want to control any banks or corporations." and simultaneously forces banks to take taxpayer money and dictates how the banks must behave and fires the CEO of GM and dictates what types of cars it can make and supports legislation to cap the salaries of all employees of all companies.

He's so blatantly dishonest, it's stunning. And he's still getting a pass on every news outlet, including FoxNews! I actually surprised every American isn't running around ranting like Glenn Beck huffing paint!

757 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #748 Walter L. Newton

Okay, I was almost right.

758 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:33:17pm

re: #740 calcajun

To hell with the sugar--do they still use the ORIGINAL ingredient?

Ah, you mean cocaine. The answer is no. I've drunk bottles from Mexico and they do not taste very different. They may be better for you, using sugar instead of corn syrup.

759 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:33:25pm

re: #742 MandyManners

Isn't it "a higher power"?

I believe the steps refer to God. or maybe it was a small "g" god.

760 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:33:25pm

re: #752 Sharmuta

Illuminaughty!

Zionist Plot!

761 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:33:36pm

re: #744 JimmyTheClaw

amen

It's all oil pandering. It is what it is. It's not worth mentioning. The whole "story" is merely a drop from the I.V. bag from the media to keep people watching.

762 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:33:51pm

re: #755 ggt

Yeah, but it was a memorable line.

along with:

"first star to the right . . ."

Ripping off "Peter Pan" and that was Star Trek VI, and another...Oh my God. I need to get out more.

763 wee fury  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:34:03pm

Glen Beck.
possibly --
Curly Stooge.

764 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:34:41pm

re: #756 NukeAtomrod

Yes. And, unfortunately, I am also seeing a pattern of behavior. Obama says "Don't be ridiculous. I am not a socialist. I don't want to control any banks or corporations." and simultaneously forces banks to take taxpayer money and dictates how the banks must behave and fires the CEO of GM and dictates what types of cars it can make and supports legislation to cap the salaries of all employees of all companies.

He's so blatantly dishonest, it's stunning. And he's still getting a pass on every news outlet, including FoxNews! I actually surprised every American isn't running around ranting like Glenn Beck huffing paint!

Did he actually ever say "I am not a Socialist" or just dodge the question by invoking GW Bush?

765 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:35:34pm

re: #758 Dark_Falcon

corn syrup.

There is a special place in Hell for Earl Butz and his plan to save the corn growers of America by making all food makers use that crap.

766 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:35:45pm

re: #659 jaunte

My kids are close to moving out, so I'm anticipating library room.

Right now it's my dining room.
books cover 3 walls.
LIterally.

767 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:35:55pm

re: #755 ggt

Yeah, but it was a memorable line.

along with:

"first star to the right . . ."

Actually it was "second star to the right...". The line is borrowed from Peter Pan. That line is from Star Trek VI, which is a much better movie. Christopher Plummer made a great antagonist for Kirk.

768 Silvergirl  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:35:56pm

I've arrived late. What is the talk of turtles? Is it the candy or "Elenore, gee I think you're swell . . . "

769 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:36:33pm

I'm amazed that so many people continue to insist that the founding fathers intended America to be a "Christian nation," when it is blindingly obvious that they specifically wrote the Constitution to prevent this from being the case. The separation of church and state was vitally important to those men; they had fled a Europe in which the consequences of enshrining a national religion were horribly clear, and this was one of the strongest imperatives they knew -- that they would do everything in their power to prevent it from happening in the New World.

Read the words of Thomas Jefferson if you don't understand this. Jefferson thought deeply about this subject.

So many people these days have forgotten these lessons, and want to return to a mythical religious country that never existed. Were the early settlers of America Christians for the most part, and did they attend church and pray? No one can argue otherwise. But they kept their worship separate from the concept of governance, because they knew from their own experience how disastrous it could be if America lost sight of its origins and reverted to religious rule.

770 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:36:36pm

re: #756 NukeAtomrod

Yes. And, unfortunately, I am also seeing a pattern of behavior. Obama says "Don't be ridiculous. I am not a socialist. I don't want to control any banks or corporations." and simultaneously forces banks to take taxpayer money and dictates how the banks must behave and fires the CEO of GM and dictates what types of cars it can make and supports legislation to cap the salaries of all employees of all companies.

He's so blatantly dishonest, it's stunning. And he's still getting a pass on every news outlet, including FoxNews! I actually surprised every American isn't running around ranting like Glenn Beck huffing paint!

patience, patience....

771 calcajun  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:36:51pm

re: #767 Dark_Falcon

Actually it was "second star to the right...". The line is borrowed from Peter Pan. That line is from Star Trek VI, which is a much better movie. Christopher Plummer made a great antagonist for Kirk.

You need to get out more, too.//

772 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:36:55pm

re: #745 Dark_Falcon

You're quoting Star Trek V? That movie was the worst of the Star Trek Movies.

Yet, you watched it...

On that topic, I'm looking forward to my DS9 dvd tonight. Next one up has got to be the LGF favourite: "In The Pale Moonlight".

"IT'S A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE" - the Romulan

773 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:36:58pm

re: #720 Sharmuta

And when will athletes have to do the same? I actually can remember when a family could go to a baseball game, and still have enough money to buy food for the next month. Bet some lizards are too young to remember those days!

Imagine if scientists were paid super star salaries for their research, as well as the research facilities.

Somehow our values have become skewered in a lot of cases.

774 Racer X  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:37:03pm

re: #747 Mich-again

Domestically produced Coke uses corn sweeteners instead of real sugar because our Government put a tariff on imported sugar.

That and the corn subsidies made HFCS cheaper.

Cane sugar tastes way better. Coke produces a "Kosher" mix in 2 liter bottles around Passover and can be identified by a yellow cap. No corn syrup.

775 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:37:11pm

A little OT

My Internet Security Suite expires next month. I currently use Kaspersky Internet Security. What do you fellow lizards use and can anyone recommend a good one? We have three laptops and a desktop here in the Dog House.

776 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:37:46pm

re: #756 NukeAtomrod

And he's still getting a pass on every news outlet, including FoxNews!

What else can they do? They went so far into the tank for Marse Obama that they just can't quit cold turkey.

They'd have to back out real slow, if they were so inclined. But hey, Marse Obama speaks for, as well as to, them.

So why should they not give him a pass?

Man. You act like journalists are supposed to report news or something. They don't see it like that. They want to 'make a difference', and you can't very well do that by being at all conservative, now can you?

777 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:37:57pm

re: #769 Charles

I regret that I have but one ding to give.

778 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:38:00pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

Glenn Beck!

Nesara!

779 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:38:00pm

re: #765 calcajun

There is a special place in Hell for Earl Butz and his plan to save the corn growers of America by making all food makers use that crap.

Pile the ADM and Monsanto execs (and similar ilk) and all of their Congressional stooges right in there in hell with Earl Butts.

780 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:38:19pm

re: #773 NY Nana

And when will athletes have to do the same? I actually can remember when a family could go to a baseball game, and still have enough money to buy food for the next month. Bet some lizards are too young to remember those days!

Imagine if scientists were paid super star salaries for their research, as well as the research facilities.

Somehow our values have become skewered in a lot of cases.

Or teachers.

781 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:38:34pm

Some thoughts on religion in politics from Barry Goldwater:

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
-- Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)

782 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:38:34pm

re: #774 Racer X

That and the corn subsidies made HFCS cheaper.

Cane sugar tastes way better. Coke produces a "Kosher" mix in 2 liter bottles around Passover and can be identified by a yellow cap. No corn syrup.

I'll be sure to buy a bottle.

783 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:38:48pm

re: #775 Desert Dog

Honestly, I don't use anything and my comps run fine.

784 Racer X  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:39:00pm

re: #765 calcajun

There is a special place in Hell for Earl Butz and his plan to save the corn growers of America by making all food makers use that crap.

What is wrong with Corn Syrup?

785 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:39:02pm

re: #764 Capitalist Tool

Did he actually ever say "I am not a Socialist" or just dodge the question by invoking GW Bush?

From a New York Times interview:

Q. The first six weeks have given people a glimpse of your spending priorities. Are you a socialist as some people have suggested?

A. You know, let’s take a look at the budget – the answer would be no.

786 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:39:03pm

re: #769 Charles

Can I has sekularizm?

787 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:39:12pm

re: #771 calcajun

You need to get out more, too.//

You ain't kindin' brother.

788 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:39:41pm

re: #775 Desert Dog

A little OT

My Internet Security Suite expires next month. I currently use Kaspersky Internet Security. What do you fellow lizards use and can anyone recommend a good one? We have three laptops and a desktop here in the Dog House.

Don't. Buy. Norton.

I've run BitDefender and, yes, Kaspersky and not had a problem... and AVG is free, so it's good assuming you're not spending all your time downloading leet warez.

789 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:40:00pm

re: #769 Charles... and they had no need to look further than Salem for examples.

790 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:40:28pm

re: #784 Racer X

Costs more than sugar, doesn't taste as good, and the price is supported by our taxes.

791 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:40:39pm

re: #788 Zimriel

Don't. Buy. Norton.

Amen to that! Norton IS a virus if you ask anyone who's used it.

792 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:40:46pm

re: #781 jaunte

Barry was da man. I am gonna have to swing by the library and check out that book Sharmuta keeps pestering us about. :)

793 Gus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:40:54pm

Guess I should post the video here.

Go to 4:06 to hear Newt Gingrich say:

"if we bow to the Saudi king, which the president [Obama] did, which I thought was frankly not very good when President Bush did it."

794 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:41:14pm

re: #772 Zimriel

Yet, you watched it...

On that topic, I'm looking forward to my DS9 dvd tonight. Next one up has got to be the LGF favourite: "In The Pale Moonlight".

"IT'S A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE" - the Romulan

I've seen every Star Trek movie since Star Trek IV in the theater. I'm not a trekkie but I have enjoyed most of them.

795 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:41:33pm

re: #773 NY Nana

And when will athletes have to do the same? I actually can remember when a family could go to a baseball game, and still have enough money to buy food for the next month. Bet some lizards are too young to remember those days!

Imagine if scientists were paid super star salaries for their research, as well as the research facilities.

Somehow our values have become skewered in a lot of cases.

Well thank you for not selling out & taking the $$ for selling carbon credits.

796 Wishing  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:41:38pm

re: #769 Charles

I'm amazed that so many people continue to insist that the founding fathers intended America to be a "Christian nation," when it is blindingly obvious that they specifically wrote the Constitution to prevent this from being the case. The separation of church and state was vitally important to those men; they had fled a Europe in which the consequences of enshrining a national religion were horribly clear, and this was one of the strongest imperatives they knew -- that they would do everything in their power to prevent it from happening in the New World.

Read the words of Thomas Jefferson if you don't understand this. Jefferson thought deeply about this subject.

So many people these days have forgotten these lessons, and want to return to a mythical religious country that never existed. Were the early settlers of America Christians for the most part, and did they attend church and pray? No one can argue otherwise. But they kept their worship separate from the concept of governance, because they knew from their own experience how disastrous it could be if America lost sight of its origins and reverted to religious rule.

Exactly Charles, yet just today I heard Hannity quoting on and on from Jefferson, I think, demanding that it was INTENDED to be Christian. That was surely their only point of reference, by experience, but they were rigorous in keeping this OUT of the Constitution.

797 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:41:38pm

re: #747 Mich-again

Look for Coca Cola that has the kosher for Passover symbol on the cap. It is the real thing: sugar. It is usually sold out by now, though.

798 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:42:27pm

re: #792 Slumbering Behemoth

Barry was da man. I am gonna have to swing by the library and check out that book Sharmuta keeps pestering us about. :)

The Conscience of a Conservative!

799 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:42:31pm

re: #778 Killgore Trout

Nesara!

Stormfront!
/blech

800 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:42:32pm

re: #776 razorbacker

On this topic, I must admit naïveté. I just never learn.

801 voluble  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:08pm

I think Charles is just upset that Bambi didn't get one of those spiffy gold medals that Bush did. At least then we would have had something to stick in the treasury.

Speaking of sanity going out of style, I told my wife that if I ever say something as supremely absurd as "impeach my gas tank" to just go ahead and shoot me in the head because nothing in there could possibly be of any further use to me. WTF does that even mean?

Let's face it, Bush pushed back the tide of radical Islamism on several fronts. He tried to jump start our domestic energy production but the left in this country has decided that it is more important to take a 1 in a million chance at saving a single polar bear than it is to keep the price of energy down. That this would enrich our enemies, impoverish us and fund terrorism was of less concern to them. Obama is funding Hamas and playing footsy with the Iranians. Out of all of the churches in the US he chose to attend a virulently anti-semitic one that made no bones of its support for Hezbollah. Obama has no street cred when it comes to any issue but especially not when it comes to facing down Islamic radicalism or terrorism in general.

So yeah, when a guy with this history, who was raised in a madrassa no less (Saudi funded or not) bows his head to the keeper of Mecca it has an entirely different connotation. He may not be a Muslim but he has third world ideals and a third rate intellect. He simply isn't smart enough or self-aware enough to understand the symbolism of what he did... but you can bet it isn't lost on our enemies who have him pegged as the weak and feckless fool that his is.

That we have people on the right wanting to play gotcha games by trying (and so far failing) to find a picture of Bush bowing to the Saudi King so as to paint some moral equivalence between the two presidents is certainly every bit as insane as those who want to impeach Obama for being out of his depth. In fact, I would say it is more so.

Given the all out assault being waged on our economy, and the relentless pursuit of a radical death cult to obtain atomic weapons I would think we could find more important things to discuss.

802 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:17pm

re: #793 Gus 802

Guess I should post the video here.

Go to 4:06 to hear Newt Gingrich say:

"if we bow to the Saudi king, which the president [Obama] did, which I thought was frankly not very good when President Bush did it."

Why- that damned RINO! Oh, wait.

803 wee fury  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:18pm

re: #763 wee fury

Glen Beck.
possibly --
Curly Stooge.


804 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:24pm

re: #797 NY Nana

Look for Coca Cola that has the kosher for Passover symbol on the cap. It is the real thing: sugar. It is usually sold out by now, though.

I hope we have some for tomorrow night. My girlfriend did the shopping, I don't know if she got some.

805 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:25pm

re: #738 itellu3times

A million droplets of bullshit become a rushing torrent nonsense.
- The Zen of Killgore
/Trout Ching

806 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:35pm
807 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:38pm

re: #769 Charles

I'm amazed that so many people continue to insist that the founding fathers intended America to be a "Christian nation," when it is blindingly obvious that they specifically wrote the Constitution to prevent this from being the case. The separation of church and state was vitally important to those men; they had fled a Europe in which the consequences of enshrining a national religion were horribly clear, and this was one of the strongest imperatives they knew -- that they would do everything in their power to prevent it from happening in the New World.

Read the words of Thomas Jefferson if you don't understand this. Jefferson thought deeply about this subject.

So many people these days have forgotten these lessons, and want to return to a mythical religious country that never existed. Were the early settlers of America Christians for the most part, and did they attend church and pray? No one can argue otherwise. But they kept their worship separate from the concept of governance, because they knew from their own experience how disastrous it could be if America lost sight of its origins and reverted to religious rule.

Gee, Charles, you're just askin' for more love letters.

Ding+!

808 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:43:52pm

re: #772 Zimriel

Yet, you watched it...

On that topic, I'm looking forward to my DS9 dvd tonight. Next one up has got to be the LGF favourite: "In The Pale Moonlight".

"IT'S A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE" - the Romulan

That was definitely one of the better DS9 episodes.

809 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:44:18pm

re: #798 Sharmuta

The Conscience of a Conservative!

That's the one. I'm gonna hafta hit the library website and see if they have a copy.

810 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:44:20pm

re: #791 bosforus

Amen to that! Norton IS a virus if you ask anyone who's used it.

I use Norton, and I've always liked it.

811 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:44:21pm

re: #788 Zimriel

Don't. Buy. Norton.

I've run BitDefender and, yes, Kaspersky and not had a problem... and AVG is free, so it's good assuming you're not spending all your time downloading leet warez.

I second the Norton sentiment...
free AVG is now v8.5, but dl's can be tricky - it's very easy to dl a subscription version.
Malwarebytes' mbam.exe is almost a must- have tool against current threats.

812 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:44:24pm

re: #799 Slumbering Behemoth

My UFO death cult beats your neo-nazi ethnic nationalism
/itchin' for a fight

813 Gus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:44:29pm

re: #802 Sharmuta

Why- that damned RINO! Oh, wait.

Incoming! Yeah, when I heard that this morning I did a double take. Newt Gingirch said what? Was bored and watching some Fox News videos online.

814 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:44:53pm

re: #807 jcm

Gee, Charles, you're just askin' for more love letters.

Ding+!

Ya know what a "love letter is?" (David Lynch's Blue Velvet)

815 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:45:34pm

re: #812 Killgore Trout

My UFO death cult beats your neo-nazi ethnic nationalism
/itchin' for a fight

FACT.

816 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:45:38pm

re: #793 Gus 802

Guess I should post the video here.

Go to 4:06 to hear Newt Gingrich say:

"if we bow to the Saudi king, which the president [Obama] did, which I thought was frankly not very good when President Bush did it."

Obviously Newt Gingrich is a RINO. I think we should organize a hate mail campaign.

Or maybe I could forward all the hate mail I've gotten for saying the same damned thing.

817 Racer X  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:46:18pm

re: #797 NY Nana

Look for Coca Cola that has the kosher for Passover symbol on the cap. It is the real thing: sugar. It is usually sold out by now, though.

Yellow Cap looks to be the identifier for the "Passover" Coke with sugar.

818 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:46:23pm

re: #794 Dark_Falcon

I've seen every Star Trek movie since Star Trek IV in the theater. I'm not a trekkie but I have enjoyed most of them.

What is that quote- "Grow long and prosper"... no wait- that was a "Debbie Does-" or something.
nevermind

819 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:46:24pm

re: #801 voluble

You're a dork that has completely missed the point, and apparently has trouble reading.

820 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:46:25pm

re: #814 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone appreciate Blue Velvet anymore? I haven't seen it in a really long time. Does it still hold up?

821 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:46:27pm

re: #810 Dark_Falcon

I use Norton, and I've always liked it.

Well then I stand corrected. But every computer I've seen it removed from (about 4 comps) run blissfully faster without it. But I suppose I will now start saying, Anyone who's used Norton, excluding Dark_Falcon, says Norton IS a virus.

822 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:46:52pm

re: #806 Iron Fist

Randy Weaver learned that one the hard way.

823 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:47:08pm

re: #801 voluble

And another Troll insults the host. It's alright, gives us each an extra portion of Gamey Buttocks. I've got some Coca-Cola made with sugar, so now all we need is the chips.

824 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:47:19pm

re: #815 Walter L. Newton

It's tough to beat a ufo death cult.

825 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:47:27pm

re: #820 Killgore Trout

Does anyone appreciate Blue Velvet anymore? I haven't seen it in a really long time. Does it still hold up?

Does for me, I have it. I don't know, I haven't showed it to anyone new in years, I need to take it out and try it on a few people.

826 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:47:37pm

re: #748 Walter L. Newton

Wrong... this guy sort of forced it, but he came up with the idea first, at least in recorded history...

"The first monotheist in history seems to be the penultimate Hyksos King of Avaris, named Apophis, who took Sutheck (Set) to be his sole deity, and enforced this god on the population by means of banning worship of all other gods, and allowing the sacred animals of the Egyptians to be killed. Following the second intermediate period, Akhnaton replicated the monotheism of Apothis but with the Aten disk as the one-god of monotheism."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I'm no historian but I believe that traditional Jewish dating makes Abraham as old or older than those guys. Besides, they worshipped nature and objects, not a spiritual God. And anyways, Moses kicked Pharaoh's ass.

827 Gus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:47:53pm

re: #816 Charles

Obviously Newt Gingrich is a RINO. I think we should organize a hate mail campaign.

Or maybe I could forward all the hate mail I've gotten for saying the same damned thing.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe now we can disperse some of the accusations you've been getting. Now we gave Gingrich on the record saying the same thing.

828 WindHorse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:47:58pm

re: #820 Killgore Trout

don't fuckin' look at me.....

829 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:48:23pm

re: #824 Killgore Trout

It's tough to beat a ufo death cult.

Not if you have a club.

830 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:48:33pm

re: #820 Killgore Trout

Does anyone appreciate Blue Velvet anymore? I haven't seen it in a really long time. Does it still hold up?

My copy is backed up twice and holding up pretty well.

831 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:48:48pm

re: #788 Zimriel

Don't. Buy. Norton.

I've run BitDefender and, yes, Kaspersky and not had a problem... and AVG is free, so it's good assuming you're not spending all your time downloading leet warez.

I don't think AVG is free anymore, but I use it (5 systems to protect, and they were the only ones with a good price for a 5 system license). I've had few problems, and they are usually responsive for support. Not always.
My newer machine came with McAfee, and has given me more trouble than AVG. I've had to reinstall it once (although that problem might be due to Vista; the problem was, Vista didn't think McAfee was working, but McAfee's tech support said it was).
Every so often, McAfee thinks it needs a reboot, and rebooting doesn't solve it. I have to edit the Registry to fix it.

I used Kaspersky with Parallels on my Mac until the license ran out (it comes with Parallels), and it was good. It also found stuff in email archives that AVG didn't.

832 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:49:02pm

re: #818 Capitalist Tool

What is that quote- "Grow long and prosper"... no wait- that was a "Debbie Does-" or something.
nevermind

SMACK!

833 Dianna  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:49:03pm

re: #753 brookly red

sorry that you missed it?

No. re: #816 Charles

Obviously Newt Gingrich is a RINO. I think we should organize a hate mail campaign.

Or maybe I could forward all the hate mail I've gotten for saying the same damned thing.

You'll get even more, because you said it first.

834 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:49:09pm

re: #816 Charles

Threadable?

835 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:49:13pm

re: #825 Walter L. Newton

That's one I should rewatch. I'm sure Eraser Head will still hold up. Not sure about Blue Velvet. If nothing else Lynch was a genius of his time.

836 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:49:58pm

re: #821 bosforus

Well then I stand corrected. But every computer I've seen it removed from (about 4 comps) run blissfully faster without it. But I suppose I will now start saying, Anyone who's used Norton, excluding Dark_Falcon, says Norton IS a virus.

I hope I did not offend. I was just giving my 2 cents.

837 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:50:01pm

re: #775 Desert Dog

McAfee is pretty much like listerein, tastes awful but works.

838 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:50:09pm

re: #820 Killgore Trout

Does anyone appreciate Blue Velvet anymore? I haven't seen it in a really long time. Does it still hold up?

Er, I just checked, I don't have it. It must have gone south after one of the marriages, don't remember which one. When did that movie come out on DVD, that would help me date which ex got it.

839 WindHorse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:50:10pm

Frank?

840 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:50:51pm

re: #831 Kosh's Shadow

AVG was still free as of last month, when I downloaded it onto this machine.

They'd like for you to buy a copy, but there is still a free version.

841 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:51:07pm

re: #834 Sharmuta

I don't know if I'd endorse Newt on anything these days. I'm not sure what direction he's headed.

842 traderjoe9  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:51:15pm

re: #826 Spare O'Lake

I'm no historian but I believe that traditional Jewish dating makes Abraham as old or older than those guys. Besides, they worshipped nature and objects, not a spiritual God. And anyways, Moses kicked Pharaoh's ass.

Monotheism is very wide a category; there are many subcategories to it. It wouldn't be prudent to compare Judaism with the purportedly monotheistic religions that preceded it. Their concept of the singular 'God,' (like you said) even if in accordance with the required requisites to be in the monotheist religion club, is completely and radically different that that of Judaisms.

843 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:51:22pm

re: #839 WindHorse

Frank?

And beans?

844 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:51:22pm

re: #835 Killgore Trout

Full frontal of Isabella Rossellini back in the day? Footage like that always holds up.

845 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:51:36pm

re: #797 NY Nana

Look for Coca Cola that has the kosher for Passover symbol on the cap. It is the real thing: sugar. It is usually sold out by now, though.

Wait! Corn isn't kosher? I did not know that.

846 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:51:53pm

re: #841 Killgore Trout

I don't know if I'd endorse Newt on anything these days. I'm not sure what direction he's headed.

It's not endorsing to show the man saying the same thing.

847 stevieray  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:52:04pm

re: #775 Desert Dog

A little OT

My Internet Security Suite expires next month. I currently use Kaspersky Internet Security. What do you fellow lizards use and can anyone recommend a good one? We have three laptops and a desktop here in the Dog House.

Mine (Zone Alarm Security Suite) expires next week. Today I dumped it from my XP desktop and Vista laptop. I pick up Kaspersky on a 30 trial.

I wouldn't recommend Zone Alarm. It has a nasty habit of corrupting its database, which means you must uninstall it and reinstall it. And that means it has to relearn all of your routines... a whole lot of pop-up bubbles to click.

Why are you dumping Kaspersky?

848 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:52:12pm

re: #840 razorbacker

AVG was still free as of last month, when I downloaded it onto this machine.

They'd like for you to buy a copy, but there is still a free version.

OK. I thought they dropped the free version. Is it 7 or 8? 7.0 was great; 7.5 was s.l.o.w and 8.0 got fast again.

849 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:52:20pm

re: #844 Slumbering Behemoth

Good point. I retract my skepticism.

850 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:53:11pm

re: #780 Sharmuta

Or teachers.

Good point....and for RN's, who are leaving the field in droves despite a much higher salary than I earned...total burnout because of what has happened to our hospitals since Shrillary started her super secret 'health care plan' as First No Lady...and that MD's are now also thinking of another career in fear of what Hussein will do.

We still have the very best health care, but for how long? I have heard horror stories about people with insurance having to pay up front for any hospital procedure, while illegals only have to walk into an ER, and get top notch care.

Veterans are being screwed, and those who are unemployed? May G-d help them.

This is not a brave new world..it is being turned into the old USSR by Hussein and his buddies.

Sorry for the rant, but it in only April 7, 2009....and he has enough time to destroy our country. He certainly seems determined to do it.

851 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:53:23pm

re: #848 Kosh's Shadow

OK. I thought they dropped the free version. Is it 7 or 8? 7.0 was great; 7.5 was s.l.o.w and 8.0 got fast again.

8.0

852 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:53:28pm

re: #836 Dark_Falcon

I hope I did not offend. I was just giving my 2 cents.

Ha ha ha, you did not offend at all! I was just having fun with it. If Norton's working great for you then by all means recommend it and say so! You did not offend. I think maybe my intended humor was just being a little too dry. Sorry 'bout that. :)

853 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:53:30pm

re: #844 Slumbering Behemoth

Full frontal of Isabella Rossellini back in the day? Footage like that always holds up.

Yep.

854 brookly red  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:53:35pm

re: #833 Dianna

You'll get even more, because you said it first.

awwwwww,

855 WindHorse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:53:38pm

re: #843 Sharmuta

(I think Dennis Hopper's name was Frank...)

856 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:54:15pm

re: #846 Sharmuta

It's just my paranoia. I'm looking crossways at everybody these days. Newt, tea parties, 3rd parties, Paulian economics.
It'll get better once I start smoking pot again.

857 bosforus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:54:26pm

I don't normally put myself into this conversation but the John Adams quote:

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

I don't know the original source for this either so I don't know its context but I haven't heard this quote addressed by "the other side" of the argument. I know it says nothing about Christianity but I'd still like to hear some thoughts about it.

858 SFTech  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:54:40pm

re: #797 NY Nana

They wanted a Christian nation NOT a Christian controlled government like the Church of England. There is a huge difference between keeping religion out of public office and getting rid of all together.

It seems like we've accepted the absurd as normal but normal and moral is not allowed.
I can get a sex change paid for by the City of San Francisco, but I can't get into office if I state I'm a Christian?
Our supervisors don't want the military to recruit on campuses but we can have transgender bathrooms?
Oh yeah, dedicated Muslim prayer rooms but if it was a Christian prayer room they would burn it down.

When the sick and perverse take over there is no room for God, because religion sets boundaries and limits on acceptable actions.

859 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:54:46pm

re: #835 Killgore Trout

That's one I should rewatch. ... If nothing else Lynch was a genius of his time.

True enough and then some, but WTH is the deal with Inland Empire?

860 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:54:51pm

re: #849 Killgore Trout

re: #853 Walter L. Newton

Count down to *eyeroll*, in 5, 4, 3.......

861 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:55:00pm

re: #855 WindHorse

(I think Dennis Hopper's name was Frank...)

Frank Booth

862 WindHorse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:55:12pm

re: #856 Killgore Trout

....just don't inhale.....

863 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:55:17pm

re: #856 Killgore Trout

Hakunna Matata.

864 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:55:36pm

re: #848 Kosh's Shadow

OK. I thought they dropped the free version. Is it 7 or 8? 7.0 was great; 7.5 was s.l.o.w and 8.0 got fast again.

8.5 is current v- it's still free but take care to not dl paid v.

865 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:55:52pm

re: #847 stevieray

Mine (Zone Alarm Security Suite) expires next week. Today I dumped it from my XP desktop and Vista laptop. I pick up Kaspersky on a 30 trial.

I wouldn't recommend Zone Alarm. It has a nasty habit of corrupting its database, which means you must uninstall it and reinstall it. And that means it has to relearn all of your routines... a whole lot of pop-up bubbles to click.

Why are you dumping Kaspersky?

I'm not, yet. I was just curious what everyone else used. Kaspersky has been pretty good....no problems at all. My only complaint is the time it takes to do a system scan....hours sometimes.

866 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:56:06pm

Good night folks, I'm gone to snuggle up with my shotgun wife.

867 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:56:50pm

It's a thread!
->

868 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:57:31pm

re: #804 Walter L. Newton

Good luck! It sells out very fast every year, but we don't buy it, as we are both diabetics, and our family and friend understand. They stick with the diet stuff at the Seders and during the year.

I should be doing some cooking now, but am on a break. ;)

869 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:57:50pm

Just to point out the irony, folks ban handguns, and so now other folks are substituting shotguns. (Coach guns, even.)

Sort of like the 10-round magazine limit in the "assault weapons" ban drove some folks to bigger caliber pistols.

870 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:58:19pm

re: #850 NY Nana

Nana, I am a PA working in ortho for 20 years now.

I could go on for freakin days. The public has no idea. None at all.

Not only the bullshit, and the horror stories, but everyone has one of those g-d-damned family and medical leave act forms now.

Got a carbuncle on your ass? FMLA form.

871 jcm  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:58:36pm

re: #827 Gus 802

That's what I was thinking. Maybe now we can disperse some of the accusations you've been getting. Now we gave Gingrich on the record saying the same thing.

That would mean no more "We Got Mail" threads!

:-(

872 WindHorse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:59:45pm

Dennis Hopper, what a lovable anti-hero....

873 Gus  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:00:07pm

re: #871 jcm

That would mean no more "We Got Mail" threads!

:-(

I kind of like those. Now I'm going to get the emails! No wait. :)

874 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:00:17pm

re: #870 formercorpsman

Nana, I am a PA working in ortho for 20 years now.

I could go on for freakin days. The public has no idea. None at all.

Not only the bullshit, and the horror stories, but everyone has one of those g-d-damned family and medical leave act forms now.

Got a carbuncle on your ass? FMLA form.

What's a carbuncle, anyhow?

875 stevieray  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:00:34pm

re: #865 Desert Dog

I'm not, yet. I was just curious what everyone else used. Kaspersky has been pretty good....no problems at all. My only complaint is the time it takes to do a system scan....hours sometimes.

I think those long scans are par for the course. For the past two weeks, I've been looking at the options, and as part of my research, I always check out the user forums... see what the current users of the suite are complaining about.

Every thinks their antivirus scan takes too long... literally every user forum has many complaints about that. I guess its because there are a lot of viruses to check for, and a lot of files to check.

876 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:00:51pm

re: #874 Capitalist Tool

Precisely.

877 WindHorse  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:01:32pm

carbuncles = not good....

878 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:02:14pm

re: #778 Killgore Trout

Nesara!

Nesara 2!

(Didn't you say there are 2 groups?)

879 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:03:05pm

re: #851 razorbacker

8.0

Good, then. I have the full version, which checks web sites, etc., but that is just a bonus; I paid because my wife is in business, and the free version isn't for commercial use.

880 realwest  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:03:58pm

re: #781 jaunte
Hi juante - nothing as good as quoting a classic - and Barry Goldwater was a classic conservative. I miss his honesty, his rigorous applications of his core principles to himself and to those who professed to want to politically, be on his side.
And of course his sense of humor. Geez, Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley Jr. truly represented the best of Conservatism in this country.
No "religious right", no fascists, just an adherence to integrity, personal morality, small government, low taxes, a (relatively - they were both wealthy men) level playing field, strong individual initiative and responsibility, and a strong national defense.
Now we have CEO's of large Life Insurance Companies sticking their mitts out for a TARP congressional handout (I put that story in the spin-off links). Not to mention all of the other folks looking to glom onto the "free money" government - at least in Obama's (and Pelosi and Reid's) government seem all to willing to give them for a price to be named later.

881 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:04:17pm

re: #874 Capitalist Tool

Actually, it is not very much fun at all. It is a line from some comedian years ago that always stuck in my memory bank. I like it for no specific reason, other than I like the way it sounds.

I will say however, everyone has an FMLA form.

You should like one up sometime, and see how many times the government can ask the same question 6 different ways.

882 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:04:36pm

re: #875 stevieray

I think those long scans are par for the course. For the past two weeks, I've been looking at the options, and as part of my research, I always check out the user forums... see what the current users of the suite are complaining about.

Every thinks their antivirus scan takes too long... literally every user forum has many complaints about that. I guess its because there are a lot of viruses to check for, and a lot of files to check.


Exactly.
Look at how many files get scanned! 500 GB drives just have a lot of data. And those aren't exactly large nowadays.
At least the computer is still usable during a scan; it used to make the system so slow I'd have to run it when I wasn't using the computer.

883 acwgusa  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:04:44pm

Any bets if I see my Tesla Model S, or my $5000 back from Mr. Musk, come 2011?

884 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:05:02pm

Look one up online sometime. PIMF

885 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:05:33pm

re: #848 Kosh's Shadow

I just put in 8.5 the other day (free) and so far, so good.

886 realwest  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:06:07pm

re: #791 bosforus Uh, no, I've used Norton Internet Security Suite for about 4 years now and have (knock on wood) never been infected.

887 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:06:12pm

Have a good night guys.

888 jaunte  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:07:10pm

re: #880 realwest

Hi realwest - I hope one of our younger conservatives can be inspired by his example. It's rare to find a politician that says what they think.

889 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:09:03pm
890 JimmyTheClaw  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:11:42pm

re: #56 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in today. I've been a bad, bad conservative.

remember its the quality of the hate mail not the quantity

891 stevieray  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:11:43pm

re: #886 realwest

Uh, no, I've used Norton Internet Security Suite for about 4 years now and have (knock on wood) never been infected.

The latest version of Norton gets really good reviews from the pc mags and websites. That's a big change -- they used to get panned pretty harshly. They say its smaller and lighter than it used to be.

892 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:12:42pm
893 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:16:21pm
894 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:24:47pm

re: #892 Iron Fist

I saw an interesting court ruling the other day that seems to legalize automatic weapons. Don't remember where, I'll look and see if I can find it again.

895 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:27:07pm

re: #870 formercorpsman

G-d bless you. No, the public does not know, and they are in for a very rude awakening. When I was diagnosed as a Type 2 (actually a Type 1 1/2; I am on 2 different insulins for the rest of my life, and also on tight control) 14 or so years ago? My Endocrinologist would give me a thorough check up every 12 weeks, and then have me come into his office to chat. Now? 5 minutes if I am lucky. The practice has grown so much that there are 4 Endocrinologists, and they really could use a moving walkway.

My husband is also a diabetic now...I actually diagnosed him. Thank G-d he is on no oral med or insulin...just tight control and a wife who gives him 'The Look'....and he never paid the bill I sent him for diagnosing him so early on ;)....his blood glucose was around 144 when I picked up on it literally through a misunderstanding, while mine was well over 400. We both have a lot of Type 2's in our families.

And with Shrillary's Noah's Ark theory re specialists? We are short so many Endocrinologist during what is nearly an epidemic. Too many people have to go to a family practitioner, as there are no Endocrinologists nearby.

Obstetricians? In some areas, women have to go out of state, as the insurance they pay is so exorbitant that they can no longer pay it, and just practice being GYN's.

Medication prices are obscenely high, far more than they should be due to the lobbyists and also the damned adverts on TV, radio, newspapers and magazines....a patient walks in with the name of a new med, asks for a script, and gets it, in place of a talk with the MD.

It will take years after the regime of The One and Shrill to fix the mess they are making. All of us will pay for it...some with our lives. Uh, make that decades. I fear for my kids and grandkids, and am waiting for The One to have my husband and me consigned to an ice flow in Alaska...we are now in our early 70's.

And people like you will be so stressed out and over-burdened that you will look for another field of employment, thus losing the best of the best.

896 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:27:42pm
897 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:41:25pm

re: #817 Racer X

Aaaaagh! I forgot that one little matter! Thanks for the enlightenment. ;)

898 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 9:51:44pm
899 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 10:01:15pm

re: #898 Iron Fist

I seem to recall that this was a recent Volkokh Conspiracy post. I'm having a hell of a time finding it, though.

They referenced Miller, IIRC.

900 stuiec  Wed, Apr 8, 2009 12:05:44am

re: #444 ggt

Can the energy from the Sun produce the tangible products we rely on every day? This is about a lot more than energy. Sure, we can find subsitutes for plastics etc, but will they be affordable in the quanitity we need them.

If the demand for oil for energy drops to zero, it means the Earth's remaining oil reserves can be devoted to chemical feedstocks.

And if you postulate an abundant supply of cheap energy, you don't have to worry about substitutes for plastics. You can synthesize long-chain hydrocarbons whenever you need them. And if I recall correctly, the component molecules of polymers like polyester and polystyrene have short carbon chains.

901 formercorpsman  Wed, Apr 8, 2009 5:49:12am

re: #895 NY Nana

Yes. Sad but true.

It will be a disaster.

902 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 8, 2009 11:36:25am

Congratulations, Charles. I get the paper version of this publication, and they are kind of a two-headed cat themselves. Generally, "hispanics" tend toward the liberal, while business people tend toward the conservative, so the need for balance is prominent. Then there are the pro-diversity ones who argue that hiring from a foreign country doesn't count. Their coverage of Alberto Gonzales was nuanced. Quite the balancing act. With pratfalls.


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