Pensacola Tea Party Coopted by Paulians

US News • Views: 5,164

Truthers and Ron Paul “activists” have apparently hijacked the management of the Tea Party in Pensacola, Florida.

I apologize for sending this to list addressees individually. However, I was so shocked by Mr. A*’s words and the “activist” website where he has his email address (meetthetruth.com) that I felt it prudent to contact everyone directly.

It is perfectly appropriate to suggest that signs be legible and coherent and their messages peaceful. But this is an exercise of First Amendment rights. NOBODY has any business telling demonstrators what to say or why they’re participating. This is the sort of “message control” leftist gangs like ACORN engage in.

Unlike Mr. A* I am NOT “protesting private banking institutions.” I am demonstrating against *our elected representatives* - at every level - who have abused our trust by rewarding bad corporate and personal behavior with taxpayer money, mortgaging our grandchildren’s future, and expanding the role of government. I am demonstrating in favor of free markets and individual responsibility.

Most disturbing: the website which hosts Mr. A*’s email address (meetthetruth.com) is an antiglobalist, antiwar conspiracy-theory group. Among its tamer claims is that the 9/11 attack was an inside job done by “Zionists.” This is just the kind of association the media would love to jump on to discredit to the entire Tea Party movement.

If this is any indication of who’s trying to run the show, count me out. It’s hard enough being a conservative without this kind of baggage.

Here’s the website of the new coordinator. (Link goes to Google’s cache.)

It’s the return of Ron Paul.

Mutated, secretive, and pissed off.

Jump to bottom

452 comments
1 NYCHardhat  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:03:12pm

Where will the sane go?

2 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:04:33pm

Insani-Tea Party.

3 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:04:39pm
If this is any indication of who’s trying to run the show, count me out. It’s hard enough being a conservative without this kind of baggage.

Absolutely!

And to tell the truth, a couple of my democrat friends are surprised to learn I'm not a Nirther. The kooks are making it almost impossible to tell anyone you're a conservative without getting strange looks. Thanks, assholes.

4 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:04:49pm

re: #2 Bloodnok

Clever!

5 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:05:42pm

The conservatives were throwing a potluck and their cousins showed up in a beat up station wagon with a jug of moonshine.

6 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:06:06pm

Charles, look in the health tab, they are also raving anti-vaccine kooks.

7 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:06:18pm

Tea has turned into Cool-Aid.

8 NYCHardhat  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:06:33pm

re: #5 DaddyG

The conservatives were throwing a potluck and their cousins showed up in a beat up station wagon with a jug of moonshine.

Cousins? These are the shithead frat brothers you used to hate in college.

9 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:06:48pm

Street politics is not the answer, the kooks will always take over.

We need to provide an alternative to the crazies, not become their mirror image.

10 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:07:11pm

re: #6 MrPaulRevere

Charles, look in the health tab, they are also raving anti-vaccine kooks.

That seems to be a bipartisan thing, which affects wannabe hippies badly.

11 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:07:15pm

Are these folks associated with the Society for the Preservation of Wooden Toilet Seats?

(aka The Birch John Society)

12 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:07:36pm

re: #2 Bloodnok

Insani-Tea Party.

winna!

13 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:08:22pm

re: #6 MrPaulRevere

Charles, look in the health tab, they are also raving anti-vaccine kooks.

Of course. It's the new Moronic Convergence.

14 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:09:00pm
15 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:10:50pm

Paulians think they're about the Constitution, but they're really anarchists.

16 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:11:18pm
17 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:11:29pm

I hope it's INSANITY
A bold statement of individuality.

18 jdog29  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:11:33pm

If this Tea Party movement, whatever it is, has a real groundswell of support from Independents, Dem's and Repub's, one meeting taken over by anyone of any stripe won't matter.

If there is to be a legitimate take over of the senate or house in 2010 the message will have to be as focused and as organized as the "Contract with America." Any kind of Socialist Lite products or candidates won't generate enough energy to move any numbers.

19 Truck Monkey  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:11:36pm

RON PAUL!

20 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:12:35pm

re: #16 taxfreekiller

Nancy Pelosi
Chuck Schummer
B. Obama
VP Biden
John F. Kerry
Al Gore
Bill Clinton
Harry Reid
just Democrats
Just bat shit crazy
Just in control of your every act.

Do not look.

If I look, then I wouldn't be able to bitch about 0bama's pizza. ///

Stay on target, tfk. Maybe some others will notice and quit watching the birdie.

21 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:12:48pm

It's the return of Ron Paul.

Mutated, secretive, and pissed off.

22 theuglydougling  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:12:54pm

Just great. The media will use this to beat down the movement as a whole. Too bad they couldn't be bothered to point out all the Jew-hate in the so-called peace protests. Just more of the same double standard: ten so-called peace activists (who actually are pro-Hamas) show up for a rally and it's all over the news. But a thousand anti-tax protesters won't make the news unless pictures can be taken of a few kooks.

23 rawmuse  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:13:01pm

Hey, where can I find a parade to jump in front of? /

24 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:13:34pm

Ron Paul part duh.

25 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:13:40pm

re: #21 Charles

It's the return of Ron Paul.

Mutated, secretive, and pissed off.

Can we have a monster movie?

26 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:14:05pm

re: #23 rawmuse

Hey, where can I find a parade to jump in front of? /

Just get in between glenn back and pitchfork.

27 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:14:09pm

re: #21 Charles

I'll take 50 more Ron Pauls over one more Pelosi

28 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:14:31pm

re: #25 Dianna

Can we have a monster movie?

Ron Paulzilla!

29 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:14:34pm

Nancy and Harry....


30 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:15:17pm

re: #23 rawmuse

Hey, where can I find a parade to jump in front of? /

As you're being chased out of town , hold your head high and make it look like you're leading the parade

Former Bostop Mayor Kevin White, always one step ahead of an indictment!

31 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:15:51pm

re: #30 sattv4u2

As you're being chased out of town , hold your head high and make it look like you're leading the parade

Former BostopN Mayor Kevin White, always one step ahead of an indictment!

32 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:17:20pm

re: #28 Gus 802

Ron Paulzilla!

Excellent!

33 jdog29  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:17:55pm

If I'm not ready to be dragged through the mud with lies then I'm not ready. If I'm not ready for dirt about people I don't even know, much less my actual family members to be dragged through the mud with lies as well, then I'm not ready.

If I'm not ready to have every last detail of my life investigated and taken out of context along with every behavior I've ever even been associated with magnified to the point I can't even recognize it, then I'm not ready.

I'm not ready

Frodo has failed.
Obama has the ring.

34 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:18:07pm

re: #32 Dianna

Excellent!

Gracias. I was thinking about Japanese monsters of modern lore.

35 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:18:47pm

Atlantas "Tea Party" is on the 15th. Hannity is broadcasting his radio show from it live.

36 theuglydougling  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:19:02pm

re: #25 Dianna

Reminds me of that old SNL skit: "The Thing That Wouldn't Leave"

37 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:19:12pm

Ron Paul on the theory of evolution:

38 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:19:24pm

Rosicrucianism?

39 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:19:26pm

re: #33 jdog29

[SNIP]
I'm not ready

Frodo has failed.
Obama has the ring.

wow.
upding.

40 Steve Rogers  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:19:44pm

Are these types truly the majority of the conservative and/or libertarian movement in today's world? Or are they just the loudest or biggest camera hogs?

At times I get so depressed and wonder not just how, but if, it is possible to take back the limited government, pro-science party.

41 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:20:47pm

re: #35 sattv4u2

Atlantas "Tea Party" is on the 15th. Hannity is broadcasting his radio show from it live.

wow ,, the organizers have a link to Pajamas Media who has a "PJTV Coalition Tea Party Show Kickoff " up

42 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:20:52pm

re: #34 Gus 802

Gracias. I was thinking about Japanese monsters of modern lore.

The depths of my love for Japanese Monster Movies (from the 50's and 60's) is bottomless. In high school, whenever there was a marathon, there were a group of us who'd camp in somebody's living room and have a great time.

43 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:21:12pm

"Were not all dumb in the South, we just can't keep the stupidest of us off of the TV." -Jeff Foxworthy

This has broad applcation in politics.

44 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:21:59pm

re: #42 Dianna

The depths of my love for Japanese Monster Movies (from the 50's and 60's) is bottomless. In high school, whenever there was a marathon, there were a group of us who'd camp in somebody's living room and have a great time.

I used to watch them as a kid on TV. They have "Son of Godzilla" over at Hulu which I watched last week. It's kind of the cute monster movie.

45 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:22:06pm

This is what happens when you don't care. We've known this was coming for a long time now. Tea Party supporters didn't flood the national organizers with outraged emails about the nuts that were infiltrating. There was no outrage that UFO cults like Nesara were organizing at least two of the Tea Parties that I found. Tea Party supporters just bitched at me for exposing. They didn't care. Why haven't Tea Party supporters flooded email boxes begging for announcements that StormFront nazis are not welcome at Tea Parties? Glenn Reynolds and Michelle Malkin are just pushing a conspiracy theory that they are being infiltrated by lefties. Why don't they do something about the nuts that are really involved?

I couldn't give a shit. I think the Tea Parties have the wrong agenda but those of you who supported the idea should have spoken up and at least made an attempt to keep the nuts out. The nuts are now in control becuase you didn't care. The Tea Parties are only going to embarrass themselves.

46 The Other Les  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:22:08pm

re: #9 Ringo the Gringo

Street politics is not the answer, the kooks will always take over.

We need to provide an alternative to the crazies, not become their mirror image.

Ayn Rand never called herself a conservative. If fact she felt that some conservatives, the ones with the bipartisan tendencies, deserved to occupy a hotter section of Hell.

As a result Rand called herself and those who followed her Radicals for Capitalism. Perhaps we should think of ourselves as Radicals for Liberty and Sanity.
.

47 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:22:13pm

re: #38 MandyManners

Rosicrucianism?

Which set? The folks who have a fun Egyptian museum in San Jose, or the folks who are still looking for the Philosphers' Stone?

48 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:22:18pm

If there wasn't a Ron Paul, George Soros would have to invent one.

49 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:22:31pm

re: #33 jdog29

Frodo has failed.
Obama has the ring.

*whack*

This is no time to go wobbly.

Now, buck up, jdog.

50 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:22:46pm

re: #40 Steve Rogers

Are these types truly the majority of the conservative and/or libertarian movement in today's world? Or are they just the loudest or biggest camera hogs?

At times I get so depressed and wonder not just how, but if, it is possible to take back the limited government, pro-science party.

No doubt.

51 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:10pm

re: #47 Dianna

Which set? The folks who have a fun Egyptian museum in San Jose, or the folks who are still looking for the Philosphers' Stone?

Take a peek.

52 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:10pm

Happy Passover/Easter everyone.

Has anyone kept count of how many palestinian children were kidnapped today and had their blood drained for matzos?

I bet that was the talk in all the mosques in the so called "palestine" today.

Whipping up the barbarians into a blood lusting frenzy of suicide bombing and murder.

53 The Other Les  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:14pm

re: #11 DaddyG

Are these folks associated with the Society for the Preservation of Wooden Toilet Seats?

(aka The Birch John Society)

The last time I was a wooden toilet seat it was in a Liberal house.

54 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:14pm

re: #40 Steve Rogers
I would settle for limited Government. Then the radicals of all stripes can practice their peculiar beliefs in private obscurity.

Unfortunately we are now defining community as the whole world and handing over tremendous power to all kinds of community organizers.

55 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:18pm

Credibility, crumbling...

56 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:21pm

re: #6 MrPaulRevere

They also say that Prescott Bush was involved in the death of JFK. Amazing what you find when you poke around those sites.

57 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:48pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

I said this on the last thread:

This is what happens when you start a grassroots movement with no controlling organizational body. It's a rudderless ship, and now the kooks are running the show.

58 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:23:57pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

Paulians think they're about the Constitution, but they're really anarchists.

They strike me as thugs who are constantly looking for opportunities to play act their American Revolution fantasies. By using the language and imagery of the American Revolution they do it a great disservice.

59 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:24:20pm

re: #51 MandyManners

Take a peek.

I'm afraid to.

I've got a bunch of research tabs open, and my reading is making my head reverberate.

60 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:24:27pm
61 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:24:35pm

"The god Of The New World Order".

Egads. LEARN SOME GRAMMAR!

62 The Other Les  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:24:44pm

re: #21 Charles

It's the return of Ron Paul.

Mutated, secretive, and pissed off.

Let me say that I'm sorry I went Libertarian and voted for Ron Paul in 1988.

63 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:25:05pm

re: #53 The Other Les

The last time I was a wooden toilet seat it was in a Liberal house.


Did you wipe with paper, plastic or recyclable towels? //

64 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:25:13pm

re: #59 Dianna

I'm afraid to.

I've got a bunch of research tabs open, and my reading is making my head reverberate.

This might give you some kicks and grins, Dianna.

65 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:25:33pm

re: #63 DaddyG

Did you wipe with paper, plastic or recyclable towels? //

TMI

66 rain of lead  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:26:26pm

hey guys
sorry to go ot but I would like to ask a favor
today in middle tenn at 12:40 pm a line of thunderstorms roared through
rutherford co. as many as 12 tornadoes struck Murfreesboro tn
a mother and baby were killed and 35 people were hurt. so far a 100
homes are damaged or destroyed.
if anyone sees GOC could you ask her to say a prayer for those involved
or say one yourself on this very tragic good friday.
here is a link showing the damage. on the left is a slideshow on the right is a series of vids #1 at 1:40 shows the tornado going right across a
crowed interststate hwy.
[Link: www.wkrn.com...]
thank you all

67 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:26:38pm

re: #63 DaddyG

Sheryl Crowe says you only need one sheet of toilet paper......

68 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:26:47pm

re: #62 The Other Les

Let me say that I'm sorry I went Libertarian and voted for Ron Paul in 1988.

That's ok I have a Ross Perot in my closet.

69 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:27:20pm

re: #63 DaddyG

Did you wipe with paper, plastic or recyclable towels? //

Sham-WOW!

70 The Other Les  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:27:36pm

re: #63 DaddyG

Did you wipe with paper, plastic or recyclable towels? //

I brought my own paper.

71 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:27:57pm

re: #67 whiterasta

Sheryl Crowe says you only need one sheet of toilet paper......

One more music star who's hand I will never shake.

72 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:28:11pm

re: #57 Sharmuta

I said this on the last thread:

This is what happens when you start a grassroots movement with no controlling organizational body. It's a rudderless ship, and now the kooks are running the show.

backfire...oh well

73 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:28:38pm

re: #71 DaddyG

Ewwwww.... you got that right.....

74 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:28:41pm

re: #46 The Other Les

Radicals for The Constitution, Capitalism and The Individual!
I'm all for it!

75 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:28:49pm

re: #58 Bloodnok

They strike me as thugs who are constantly looking for opportunities to play act their American Revolution fantasies. By using the language and imagery of the American Revolution they do it a great disservice.

They too are unconstrained. They would tear down society in order to build their utopia.

76 Salamantis  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:28:54pm

Geez; me and a friend were thinking of checking this thing out (I live in P'cola), but now I'm not sure whether I want to, or even where to go...

77 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:29:00pm

re: #66 rain of lead

We're (Metro Atlanta Ga.) are getting those storms right now. There have been a couple of confirmed funnel clouds. We're under a "watch" and a "warning" until 10:30 tonight

78 hazzyday  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:29:04pm

The seattle tea party.

When: April 15, 5:45 pm - 7:45 pm
Where: Downtown Seattle, Westlake Park at the Arch, 410 Pine St.

There's a Starbucks across the corner with a view. I'm gonna go just to see how crazy it is. Usually Seattle in this area always has some craziness going on. One of the top drug dealing locations is just west towards the Pike Place market.

79 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:29:18pm

re: #53 The Other Les

The last time I was a wooden toilet seat it was in a Liberal house.

Heh. When I built the second bathroom I so wanted to use this wooden seat and lid that I had. Not to be, as the hinge bolts were so far gone that I ruined the seat trying to get them off.

Beautiful wood, with a smooth, even grain. Would have looked nice.

80 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:30:14pm

re: #79 razorbacker

Heh. When I built the second bathroom I so wanted to use this wooden seat and lid that I had. Not to be, as the hinge bolts were so far gone that I ruined the seat trying to get them off.

Beautiful wood, with a smooth, even grain. Would have looked nice.

Splinters can be a bear.

81 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:30:26pm

re: #76 Salamantis

I would say go, if for no other reason to observe and report. I'd love to hear a first hand account.

82 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:30:37pm

re: #61 MandyManners

"The god Of The New World Order".

Egads. LEARN SOME GRAMMAR!

Dollar bill. Masons. Skull and Bones. Bohemian Grove. Flag of Israel. Map of D.C.. Baphomet. Anton La Vey. Pres. Bush. Verichip.

83 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:30:37pm

re: #77 sattv4u2

Be careful and be safe. My niece is at university in Atlanta.....

84 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:30:50pm

re: #63 DaddyG

Did you wipe with paper, plastic or recyclable towels? //

Corn husks.

85 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:18pm

re: #69 sngnsgt

Sham-WOW!

The post of the night.

86 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:22pm

Gotta run Lizards. Its been fun typing for a couple of hours but now I face the challenge of helping my beautiful bride get a bath with two casts on her ankles.

Also- going to check on my cousins in middle TN and make sure they weathered the storms.

Later Lizards.

87 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:30pm

if a political 'movement' started with an organizational body, and a controlling coalition of co-ordination then by definition it would not be a grassroots endeavor...jus sayin

88 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:32pm

re: #76 Salamantis

Geez; me and a friend were thinking of checking this thing out (I live in P'cola), but now I'm not sure whether I want to, or even where to go...

Better to go and add credence to "normal" protesters than to let the nuts run the show

89 hazzyday  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:48pm

re: #62 The Other Les

Let me say that I'm sorry I went Libertarian and voted for Ron Paul in 1988.

Libertarians have some good ideas, except that the leaders they choose are always whack jobs.

90 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:51pm

re: #76 Salamantis

Geez; me and a friend were thinking of checking this thing out (I live in P'cola), but now I'm not sure whether I want to, or even where to go...

Why not go and mock at will?

91 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:52pm

re: #69 sngnsgt

OBTW, shamwow guy was beat up by a hooker.

92 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:31:56pm

re: #66 rain of lead

Aw Crap.

My wife and I sat outside on the front porch last night enjoying the mighty light show from a line of thunderstorms moving west to east. Beautiful.

News today reports that Mena, AR, was hit hard by a Force 3 tornado. Much destruction, several injuries.

93 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:32:35pm

re: #92 razorbacker

Aw Crap.

My wife and I sat outside on the front porch last night enjoying the mighty light show from a line of thunderstorms moving west to east. Beautiful.

News today reports that Mena, AR, was hit hard by a Force 3 tornado. Much destruction, several injuries.

I'm looking out my window seeing one of those shows now!

94 Egregious Philbin  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:32:52pm

Ah yes, the Paultards, those better than thou assholes with the thousands of signs about the Revolution! And, of course as anyone who is not a delusional loser knows, Ron got slaughtered, over and over.

But, you can't keep a good kook down.

Xenu wept

95 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:32:54pm

re: #76 Salamantis

Geez; me and a friend were thinking of checking this thing out (I live in P'cola), but now I'm not sure whether I want to, or even where to go...

I e-mailed Charles' link to a friend who strikes me as a potential participant. He gets sucked into sensational stories, he's an unblinking "conservative", etc. and suggested he give some thought to avoiding the Denver party, because of infiltration from both extreme sides.

I hope these parties fizzle. I'd rather see the MSM guffawing about things being poorly attended than read about sensational acts of craziness.

96 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:33:01pm

re: #68 DaddyG

That's ok I have a Ross Perot in my closet.

That was the second time I could vote, and I voted for G.H.W. Bush. (The first time, I voted CPUSA.)

97 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:33:12pm
98 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:33:20pm

re: #91 eddiespaghetti

OBTW, shamwow guy was beat up by a hooker.

Shamwow's not acceptable as payment for services rendered?

99 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:33:23pm

re: #80 DaddyG

Splinters can be a bear.

They can indeed.

Of greater concern are splits in the seat. *Ouch. Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, would someone please come help me off this thing!*

100 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:33:25pm

re: #89 hazzyday

And Democrat leaders are normal?

101 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:33:49pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

This is what happens when you don't care. We've known this was coming for a long time now. Tea Party supporters didn't flood the national organizers with outraged emails about the nuts that were infiltrating. There was no outrage that UFO cults like Nesara were organizing at least two of the Tea Parties that I found. Tea Party supporters just bitched at me for exposing. They didn't care. Why haven't Tea Party supporters flooded email boxes begging for announcements that StormFront nazis are not welcome at Tea Parties? Glenn Reynolds and Michelle Malkin are just pushing a conspiracy theory that they are being infiltrated by lefties. Why don't they do something about the nuts that are really involved?

I couldn't give a shit. I think the Tea Parties have the wrong agenda but those of you who supported the idea should have spoken up and at least made an attempt to keep the nuts out. The nuts are now in control becuase you didn't care. The Tea Parties are only going to embarrass themselves.

A thousand up-dings for that. The fact is like you state is that this is what will happen if people say to look the other way. The fact is is that the kooks represent both sides of the political spectrum with each one overlapping the other in a psychotic milieu. The reality is that they don't have a well defined political side -- left or right.

However, the Tea Parties represent a political spectrum leaning right of center. Or at least they were supposed to at the onset. The "left" is not infiltrating these Tea Parties as a plot to undermine the Tea Parties. The kooks are infiltrating that movement on their own and looking the other way will only enlarge their presence.

Frankly, it may be beyond their control now given that there doesn't seem to be much oversight or motivation to control its members. It has indeed become a convergence.

102 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:34:12pm

re: #97 Racer X

Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond

very nice choice...is there a metaphore in there?

103 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:34:30pm
It is consistent for the unconstrained vision to promote equalitarian ends by unequalitarian means

-Thomas Sowell

It's not just for leftists.

104 pink freud  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:34:36pm

re: #77 sattv4u2

Sattv4u2, could you please drop me an email? My nic is blue. Thanks.

105 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:34:44pm

And CNN guy had meth and a noose around his junk.

106 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:34:56pm

re: #100 burntjohn

And Democrat leaders are normal?

No. They're just covered up.

107 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:35:05pm

re: #102 albusteve

very nice choice...is there a metaphore in there?

Oh yes!

108 rain of lead  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:35:06pm

re: #92 razorbacker

in Tenn this is not uncommon.
I can recall many spring storms on easter weekend that result in tornadoes
death and destruction. :(

109 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:35:38pm

YIKES ,,,,,, just lost a small pinetree at the back of my yard. I think it fell on the stockade fence.

110 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:36:08pm

re: #66 rain of lead

hey guys
sorry to go ot but I would like to ask a favor
today in middle tenn at 12:40 pm a line of thunderstorms roared through
rutherford co. as many as 12 tornadoes struck Murfreesboro tn
a mother and baby were killed and 35 people were hurt. so far a 100
homes are damaged or destroyed.
if anyone sees GOC could you ask her to say a prayer for those involved
or say one yourself on this very tragic good friday.
here is a link showing the damage. on the left is a slideshow on the right is a series of vids #1 at 1:40 shows the tornado going right across a
crowed interststate hwy.
[Link: www.wkrn.com...]
thank you all

Oh, dear me. I'd heard that there were tornadoes in MTn, I had no idea there were that many. I'll keep them in my thoughts and prayers.

111 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:36:57pm

re: #106 jwb7605

More like botox and teleprompters.
heheheeeee

112 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:36:58pm

Sean Hannity is ranting about America being a "Christian nation" now.

113 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:37:47pm
“You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right”

114 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:38:01pm

re: #112 Charles

Sean Hannity is ranting about America being a "Christian nation" now.

Give him a break. He devoted a bunch of time to Tea Parties first!

115 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:38:10pm

Thomas Sowell, as reported by David Warren...

"Perhaps the scariest aspect of our times is how many people think in talking points, rather than in terms of real world consequences."

and

He is the opposite of the current U.S. president, who, despite a semi-fatherless start, lucked out at every stage, and has consistently traded on race. Which is not to say I'm against luck, per se, nor against exploiting one's natural advantages. I am instead calling attention to what can be done without luck and advantages. Obama's youthful memoirs are well-written and captivating, but narcissistic; I would recommend The Autobiography of Malcolm X for better insights into American black experience. And I would recommend Sowell's A Personal Odyssey for something that defeats both, by refusing to politicize the personal.

We learn by suffering; Sowell knows that, and has learned. We advance by finding advantages in what at first sight are only limitations and oppressions; by turning the tables on fate. This is an individual, not a collective operation; it begins with that refusal to make an excuse. In moments Sowell reminds me almost of Solzhenitsyn, turning a Siberian prison camp into an elite finishing school of hard knocks, and graduating from it, magna cum laude.

Well said, and I envy his writing skill.

116 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:38:18pm

It looks like the Tea Partiers in Boston are going to cover themselves in glory. I mean what can go wrong with this imagery?

Plan: You and all of your libertarian/conservative friends. Bring yourself, some tea, a bit of pulled pork, some signs, a costume (Mohawk Native American, late 18th century colonial, or pig), and party like it’s 1773

117 Truck Monkey  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:38:29pm

re: #98 jcm

Shamwow's not acceptable as payment for services rendered?

He tried to clean up the mess with a Shamwow.

118 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:38:38pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

This is what happens when you don't care. We've known this was coming for a long time now. Tea Party supporters didn't flood the national organizers with outraged emails about the nuts that were infiltrating. There was no outrage that UFO cults like Nesara were organizing at least two of the Tea Parties that I found. Tea Party supporters just bitched at me for exposing. They didn't care. Why haven't Tea Party supporters flooded email boxes begging for announcements that StormFront nazis are not welcome at Tea Parties? Glenn Reynolds and Michelle Malkin are just pushing a conspiracy theory that they are being infiltrated by lefties. Why don't they do something about the nuts that are really involved?

I couldn't give a shit. I think the Tea Parties have the wrong agenda but those of you who supported the idea should have spoken up and at least made an attempt to keep the nuts out. The nuts are now in control becuase you didn't care. The Tea Parties are only going to embarrass themselves.

Word.

119 rawmuse  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:39:02pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

In America, we have freedom of association. You are staying home, and that is fine, I probably will also. Others get to exercise their First Amdt. rights, and that is just the way it is.

I think you get wrapped a little tight at times, and the invective gets to be a little much, but no offense intended.

120 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:39:12pm

re: #112 Charles

Sean Hannity is ranting about America being a "Christian nation" now.

he's jumped the shark....c'ya

121 rain of lead  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:39:48pm

these storms are not to be taken lightly
if you follow my link at 66 you can see what damage they do
the two who were killed mother and baby were sucked out of their house
and blown across the street. another family had the debris of another
house dropped on theirs.

122 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:40:10pm

Is this the right time to mention, the Paulians are linked up with the Vlaams Belang Euro-trash-neo-nazis?

Paranoid political extremist poison.

123 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:40:21pm

re: #66 rain of lead

hey guys
sorry to go ot but I would like to ask a favor
today in middle tenn at 12:40 pm a line of thunderstorms roared through
rutherford co. as many as 12 tornadoes struck Murfreesboro tn
a mother and baby were killed and 35 people were hurt. so far a 100
homes are damaged or destroyed.
if anyone sees GOC could you ask her to say a prayer for those involved
or say one yourself on this very tragic good friday.
here is a link showing the damage. on the left is a slideshow on the right is a series of vids #1 at 1:40 shows the tornado going right across a
crowed interststate hwy.
[Link: www.wkrn.com...]
thank you all

I'm having trouble with the link. Was MTSU hit?

124 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:40:24pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

The nuts are now in control becuase you didn't care.

Its not my day to babysit every fricking lunatic out there.

The Tea Parties are only going to embarrass themselves.

Oh well.

125 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:40:47pm

re: #121 rain of lead

Freaking horrible. What a nightmare.

126 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:41:15pm

re: #113 Catttt

Promoting mindless gun violence again, I see.

*If that isn't from 'Revolver' then please ignore this post*

127 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:41:56pm

re: #108 rain of lead

in Tenn this is not uncommon.
I can recall many spring storms on easter weekend that result in tornadoes
death and destruction. :(

Remember the one that hit a church in Alabama and killed the preacher's child?

Also, West Tennessee has been slammed in January and February--Jackson's been hit by three tornadoes.

128 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:42:06pm

re: #61 MandyManners

"The god Of The New World Order".

Egads. LEARN SOME GRAMMAR!

Your right. There grammar is bad. I gave up commenting on people's grammar on blogs long ago because it takes to much time and rarely does anything but keep some people from commenting alot sometimes and stifling them to.

I give the above paragraph a D+.

129 rain of lead  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:42:17pm

re: #123 MandyManners

not directly, but just about all of murfreesboro got damage in some form or fashion

130 cowbellallen  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:42:24pm

re: #112 Charles

Sean Hannity is ranting about America being a "Christian nation" now.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims. Jews and Hindus.... and non believers." - Barack Obama.

131 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:42:25pm

*The Pink Floyd video is cranked up way too loud*

132 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:42:35pm

re: #119 rawmuse

I agree with Killgore. This "movement" is headed toward the cliff, because the adults are behaving like angry children, and nobody seems to care enough to keep the kooks out.

133 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:42:49pm

re: #116 Bloodnok

It looks like the Tea Partiers in Boston are going to cover themselves in glory. I mean what can go wrong with this imagery?

I have an idea. Puppets! Build giant puppets of Benjamin Franklin, Adam Smith, and Ron Paul!

//

134 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:12pm

re: #126 razorbacker

Promoting mindless gun violence again, I see.

*If that isn't from 'Revolver' then please ignore this post*

Silly. You know it's on The White Album. :D

How about “Give Peace and Chance,” “All you need is Love,” and “Let it Be"?

135 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:14pm

re: #115 razorbacker

Thomas Sowell is my new hero, and a brilliant man. I do not know how to properly convey the constrained vs. unconstrained visions to all of you, I just think everyone should read A Conflict of Visions and get it directly from Mr Sowell himself. He's forever changed how I will view politics.

I'm terrified of the unconstrained vision I see on the right as much as I am from the same vision on the left. They do not support the Constitution, a thoroughly constrained document. Those that profess to love the Constitution while simultaneously desiring to destroy the society that document has given us have no idea what they're doing.

136 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:20pm

re: #122 Kenneth

Is this the right time to mention, the Paulians are linked up with the Vlaams Belang Euro-trash-neo-nazis?

Paranoid political extremist poison.

And not to belabor the point, but the same people are almost always creationists.

137 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:29pm

re: #57 Sharmuta

Very true.

138 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:38pm

re: #104 pink freud

Sattv4u2, could you please drop me an email? My nic is blue. Thanks.

On its way

139 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:42pm

re: #128 David IV of Georgia

Your right. There grammar is bad. I gave up commenting on people's grammar on blogs long ago because it takes to much time and rarely does anything but keep some people from commenting alot sometimes and stifling them to.

I give the above paragraph a D+.

"No, Sweetheart, I can't come to bed now. There is someone writing on the internet and he is wrong."

140 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:46pm

re: #133 Gus 802

I have an idea. Puppets! Build giant puppets of Benjamin Franklin, Adam Smith, and Ron Paul!

//

And we can us the old barn!

141 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:43:54pm

Get yourselves a copy.

Concerning Dissent and Civil Disobedience
by Abe Fortas

142 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:44:08pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Thanks.

143 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:44:18pm

re: #128 David IV of Georgia

Your right. There grammar is bad. I gave up commenting on people's grammar on blogs long ago because it takes to much time and rarely does anything but keep some people from commenting alot sometimes and stifling them to.

I give the above paragraph a D+.

LOL!
I also expect you'll be harder on yourself once goddessoftheclassroom sees it.

144 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:44:33pm

I shall refrain from commenting on the Tea Parties until I have attended one. The next nearest one is on the 15th for me.

145 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:45:11pm

re: #132 Charles

I agree with Killgore. This "movement" is headed toward the cliff, because the adults are behaving like angry children, and nobody seems to care enough to keep the kooks out.

As much as I would like a grass roots movement to oppose the current direction we've taken. I have to agree.

146 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:45:32pm

re: #112 Charles

America was founded on a particular set of Christian beliefs: self-responsibility, moral accountabilty and righteousness. The values imbedded in those beliefs continue to permeate the the American polity today, Republican & Democrat, left & right, conservative and liberal. One doesn't have to be actively Christian to be formed & influenced by those values.

Maybe a better way to say it is that America is a nation of Christian culture.

147 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:45:47pm

re: #140 Catttt

And we can us the old barn!

No flutes and poetry readings though. Giant Revolutionary puppets are one things but we can't have flutes and poetry.

//

148 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:45:54pm

The Tea Party was effectively discredited the day they picked that laughable name. It's just spun downwards from there.

Didn't anybody see the Paulians coming when people started showing up in bunched-up knee breeches and hokey periwigs?

My theory: Wingnuts on the right saw just how much fun the moonbats on the left had with their Bush Derangement Syndrome circle-jerks for eight full years. Now it's their turn. We're only seeing the tip of the ODS iceberg as it begins its ineluctable meltdown. Can our very own Code Puce and Raging Grandpas be far behind?

But it's sure a gas to watch the DAQ (daily anserinity quotient) soar ever higher.

Meanwhile, as I said on the "set us on fire" thread, someone needs to tell Beck that mixing Ritalin and crack is not a smart lifestyle choice. I don't care how much he wuvs his cawntwee.

149 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:46:43pm

re: #7 HelloDare

Tea has turned into Cool-Aid.

re: #7 HelloDare

Tea has turned into Cool-Aid.

True, and that Kool-Aid will prove politically fatal to anyone who drinks it.

150 trolamc  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:47:35pm

Face it... the "grab my piece of power pie people" are all over the Tea Party ideas and everywhere they happen, competing with folks from ACORN and Soros sponsored miscreants the wonderful mainstream media will be quick to point out the heinous, belligerent, ridiculous, destructive, hateful messages that will be foisted upon the good people that just want lower taxes and less government.... give me an aspirin.

151 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:47:43pm

re: #134 Catttt

Silly. You know it's on The White Album. :D

How about “Give Peace and Chance,” “All you need is Love,” and “Let it Be"?

Funny what sticks in your head. From my younger, slightly more foolish days...

In my hours of darkness
Mother Mary comes to me
Preaching words of wisdom
Let it Be

*from memory, so it may be off some.*

152 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:47:46pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

True, and that Kool-Aid will prove politically fatal to anyone who drinks it.

Burning Man Tea Parties!

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:47:55pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

Yup, sadly it's going to get much worse over the next 4-8 years. This is only the beginning.

154 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:48:15pm

re: #136 Charles

Back in 2004 you ran a picture, or maybe somebody linked to it, of Ron Paul with a group of Euro-neo-nazis. Same sewer.

155 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:48:41pm

re: #133 Gus 802

I have an idea. Puppets! Build giant puppets of Benjamin Franklin, Adam Smith, and Ron Paul!

//

I am already cringing at the prospect of protesters dressed as Native Americans. I don't see how that can come off without a major cultural insult.

156 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:48:42pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

Where the hell is the modern day equivalent of Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan?

157 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:48:45pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

Black Rednecks and White Liberals is a must read, a genuine eye opener. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

158 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:48:59pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

[SNIP]
ineluctable meltdown.
[SNIP]

upding for making me consult the dictionary!
David IV of Georgia: take notes!

159 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:49:05pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

So I guess protest is not allowed unless it's approved protest.
We await instructions.

160 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:49:34pm

I really really though sanity would prevail in America. It didn't. We (you) elected a President who is dragging us all right towards socialism. Everyone knew he had radical friends and mentors and no one cared. Everyone knew he had fairly close to ZERO experience running anything. He won anyway.

Now there are those here who say he is not doing that bad. Are you fucking kidding me? He is meeting every expectation I had and then some (NOT a good thing).

Now its MY responsibility to reign in Glenn Beck / Ron Paul and their Tea Party gang? Fuck that.

I write my congressman every week! I'm certain I am now on his spam list.

Gah!

I need a drink.

161 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:49:40pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Yup, sadly it's going to get much worse over the next 4-8 years. This is only the beginning.

the Prophet speaks!....we are entering the age of Heinlein

162 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:49:48pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

The Tea Party was effectively discredited the day they picked that laughable name. It's just spun downwards from there.

Didn't anybody see the Paulians coming when people started showing up in bunched-up knee breeches and hokey periwigs?

My theory: Wingnuts on the right saw just how much fun the moonbats on the left had with their Bush Derangement Syndrome circle-jerks for eight full years. Now it's their turn. We're only seeing the tip of the ODS iceberg as it begins its ineluctable meltdown. Can our very own Code Puce and Raging Grandpas be far behind?

But it's sure a gas to watch the DAQ (daily anserinity quotient) soar ever higher.

Meanwhile, as I said on the "set us on fire" thread, someone needs to tell Beck that mixing Ritalin and crack is not a smart lifestyle choice. I don't care how much he wuvs his cawntwee.

Guess you are just going to have to vote for Obama again.

163 jamgarr  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:49:56pm

The phrase "Obama's first term" is becoming ubiquitous on the MSM.

164 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:50:16pm

re: #145 jcm

As much as I would like a grass roots movement to oppose the current direction we've taken. I have to agree.

Grassroots doesn't mean anarchy. The tea party people should have formed a real organization from the beginning. They didn't, and the result is now any kook can come along and claim leadership in an area.

Likewise, grassroots doesn't mean easy. It takes work. This whole tea party thing is half assed, and now we're all seeing it as such.

165 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:50:16pm

Death metal concert - I fit right in there.

Israel support rally at the Holocaust Memorial - I am obviously not Jewish, but lots of non-Jewish people turn out, and I fit in too.

Tea Party - I just don't think so. It sounds like a combination of boring and check your mind at the door and fattening.

166 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:50:27pm

OT: I converted my second Kumquat to my aeroponic growing system today. It works great and the plant are happy. I need to change the water and use a fresh bucket every 2-4 weeks. Beats the hell out of daily watering.

167 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:50:35pm

re: #132 Charles

I agree with Killgore. This "movement" is headed toward the cliff, because the adults are behaving like angry children, and nobody seems to care enough to keep the kooks out.

The Tea Party movement needs a Stinky to ban the nuts when they show up.

168 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:50:52pm

re: #157 MrPaulRevere

Black Rednecks and White Liberals is a must read, a genuine eye opener. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Thanks. I might end buying all his books.

169 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:51:12pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

OT: I converted my second Kumquat to my aeroponic growing system today. It works great and the plant are happy. I need to change the water and use a fresh bucket every 2-4 weeks. Beats the hell out of daily watering.

works for pot also

just sayin!
////

170 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:51:30pm

*Has anyone seen where my voters have gone? They have charged off again. I must find them, and run out ahead of the pack, for I am their leader*

171 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:51:40pm

re: #151 razorbacker

*from memory, so it may be off some.*

IMHO, that's part of the brilliance of a lot of the Beatles stuff - you remember it.

172 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:51:46pm

re: #155 Bloodnok

I am already cringing at the prospect of protesters dressed as Native Americans. I don't see how that can come off without a major cultural insult.

Ditto. The garb costumes kind of fits a certain cultural stereotype. That's why I immediately thought about the puppets on the leftists side in which they are constantly chided for their giant puppets at protests. I can see this fast becoming another skit.

173 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:51:52pm

I do not get it, every moodbat tinfoil-hat libtard can debate and disagree with any administration.
But those on the right must adhere to some format?
Screw that!

174 pink freud  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:52:02pm

re: #139 razorbacker

"No, Sweetheart, I can't come to bed now. There is someone writing on the internet and he is wrong."

LOL! One of my favorite xkcd's.

175 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:52:12pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

The Tea Party movement needs a Stinky to ban the nuts when they show up.

there goes the mighty 1st...

176 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:52:28pm

re: #164 Sharmuta

Grassroots doesn't mean anarchy. The tea party people should have formed a real organization from the beginning. They didn't, and the result is now any kook can come along and claim leadership in an area.

Likewise, grassroots doesn't mean easy. It takes work. This whole tea party thing is half assed, and now we're all seeing it as such.

Very true. Sadly, very true.

177 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:52:33pm

re: #156 whiterasta

Where the hell is the modern day equivalent of Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan?

We cannot wait for a great leader. Not every crisis has one. Sometimes you have to win lead by lesser people.

178 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:52:39pm

re: #172 Gus 802

Ditto. The garb costumes kind of fits a certain cultural stereotype. That's why I immediately thought about the puppets on the leftists side in which they are constantly chided for their giant puppets at protests. I can see this fast becoming another skit.

And of course a bar-b-q.

179 theuglydougling  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:52:56pm

With regards to comment #45 and #132---

Part of the problem is that if there is any kind of controlling organization to keep the loons out, the reliably leftist media will beat us over the heads about how - insert conservative/republican bogeyman here - is controlling and coordinating everything and that it's not really a grassroots movement. Of course that same media never has a problem with similar conflicts on their side. And they will never point their own loons, organized or not. In that sense we can never win. It will always be an uphill battle, and if there is any success in that battle, then insert same bogeyman.

180 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:53:00pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

We cannot wait for a great leader. Not every crisis has one. Sometimes you have to win lead by lesser people.

Or become great yourself in order to lead.

181 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:53:37pm

re: #169 sattv4u2

I'm stiking with Basil, Kumquats and Wasabi for now.

182 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:53:45pm

re: #178 Catttt

And of course a bar-b-q.

Mmmm, tasty. The last thread was almost a pizza thread.

183 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:54:01pm

So, is the point here that the 'tea party' concept itself is fine (anti trillion dollar debt for years to come). But, the right has been negligent in that it has allowed Paulians and other assorted kooks to co-opt the concept?

184 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:54:13pm

re: #176 jcm

It's a bit like advertising you have free beer- you're bound to get less than savory customers when you do something like that.

185 cowbellallen  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:54:21pm

I don't know if you guys knew this, but the same guy that did Borat has a new movie coming out where he's a gay fashion designer. He tricked Ron Paul into giving an interview... I don't want to really spoil it in case people don't want to know, but he ridicules Paul in it and it'll prolly hurt his reputation.

186 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:54:34pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I'm stiking with Basil, Kumquats and Wasabi for now.

That'd be a great name for a rock band.

*Dave, is that you?*

187 freetoken  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:54:40pm

So I decided to try and dig into the other videos of the person who posted the "Burn the books" video (which I posted earlier in the day in spin-offs), just in-case she was one of those alleged provocateurs.

From her other videos I gather she is a college age person interested in posting weird or campy short videos, from a small town in OH. Nothing to overtly indicate political activism. Her Youtube page has several religious themed "interests" listed but one cannot tell if they are sincere or meant to be mocking.

From that same tea party (in the same small town in OH it would appear) she posted some other short videos:

The apparent organizer recognizes her (and her companion), calling them by name, at the beginning:


(the "fire" comment sounds like nervous banter to me.)

Pledge of Allegiance:


(her comments at the end ?)

Anyway, she doesn't really sound like a provocateur, just someone who isn't taking this stuff very seriously (which, considering everything else, is probably a good thing) and doesn't quite know what to do.

We do get to see some more interesting characters at this meeting though:

Pen waver (and energetically at that) wants, among others, Skousen's book The 5000 Year Leap as mandatory reading in schools.

What to make of all of this? My thoughts are that these people at the "tea party" are classic small town blue collar demographic, videographed by a college age woman who doesn't know what to think of it all.

188 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:55:06pm

re: #183 eddiespaghetti

So, is the point here that the 'tea party' concept itself is fine (anti trillion dollar debt for years to come). But, the right has been negligent in that it has allowed Paulians and other assorted kooks to co-opt the concept?

Yep.

189 Truck Monkey  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:55:09pm

Who, in any protest movement, can control who shows up at their events? Seriously. I am sure that I could show up smelling badly and sporting a giant puppet head in any left wing anti war march or protest. I could even create problems that would reflect poorly on the march/protest organizers. We on the right are not used to agitating and protesting. Tough, given the parameters, to keep the movement "pure".

190 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:55:11pm

re: #183 eddiespaghetti

So, is the point here that the 'tea party' concept itself is fine (anti trillion dollar debt for years to come). But, the right has been negligent in that it has allowed Paulians and other assorted kooks to co-opt the concept?

The creators of this "movement" have been negligent in that they didn't form an organizational body to control the message. Now any kook can jump on board.

191 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:55:50pm

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the obnoxious Alex Jones show up at a tea party with his bullhorn.

192 FQ Kafir  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:55:51pm

Great.

The current state of affairs gives the Paulians a perfect insipid soup in which to multiply. I've met a few Paulians in my time. Mentally, they are downright indigestible.

193 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:56:05pm

I got a pot of coffee to make, laundry to do and a dog to walk.
Some folks here are really getting under my skin tonight.

194 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:56:43pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

Yea. Crap. I see your point. Some are born great, some are made great and some have greatness thrust up them.

Right now, we have none of the above.

195 burntjohn  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:57:11pm

re: #183 eddiespaghetti

You can vote for Obama again and simply give up like the left wants you to do.

196 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:57:15pm

re: #175 albusteve

there goes the mighty 1st...

What does that mean?

197 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:57:19pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

This is what happens when you don't care. We've known this was coming for a long time now. Tea Party supporters didn't flood the national organizers with outraged emails about the nuts that were infiltrating. There was no outrage that UFO cults like Nesara were organizing at least two of the Tea Parties that I found. Tea Party supporters just bitched at me for exposing. They didn't care. Why haven't Tea Party supporters flooded email boxes begging for announcements that StormFront nazis are not welcome at Tea Parties? Glenn Reynolds and Michelle Malkin are just pushing a conspiracy theory that they are being infiltrated by lefties. Why don't they do something about the nuts that are really involved?

I couldn't give a shit. I think the Tea Parties have the wrong agenda but those of you who supported the idea should have spoken up and at least made an attempt to keep the nuts out. The nuts are now in control becuase you didn't care. The Tea Parties are only going to embarrass themselves.

I think you are right, the "tea parties" are going to end up being an embarrassment.

It is unfortunate, but I noticed that several of the tea party organizers in different places began to actively seek associations with what they thought were like-minded groups, probably to get the attendance numbers up - and there were groups just ready and willing and able to "help" out, bringing along their own brand of peculiar.

It isn't that people didn't want the nuts to be kept out - it's that the organizers actively sought the association of the nuts, without fully understanding who or what they were associating with. And if the numbers are sufficient, I think some organizers don't care who are what they are associating with.

198 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:57:31pm

re: #91 eddiespaghetti

I saw that, check out The Smoking Gun

199 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:57:48pm

no amount of money and organization and sanction can keep your movement clean...some people have a hard time with that...you can disavow someone all you want and they will still show up at your party...what's all the fuss about?...they are there for the exposure and the MSM will give it to them...there is some undo criticism of the tea party people here but no alternatives are ever put forth...e-mails won't keep the unwanted away, thats just wishful thinking

200 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:57:56pm

re: #191 MrPaulRevere

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the obnoxious Alex Jones show up at a tea party with his bullhorn.

Alex Jones is all over the "tea parties." Check out infowars.com.

The kooks are having a field day with this.

201 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:57:57pm

re: #195 burntjohn

You can vote for Obama again and simply give up like the left wants you to do.

That seems to be the extent of the alternatives.

202 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:58:30pm

re: #190 Sharmuta

The creators of this "movement" have been negligent in that they didn't form an organizational body to control the message. Now any kook can jump on board.

Actually, in some places, "any kook" is being courted to join, I think.

203 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:58:48pm

re: #197 reine.de.tout

[SNIP]
It isn't that people didn't want the nuts to be kept out - it's that the organizers actively sought the association of the nuts, without fully understanding who or what they were associating with. And if the numbers are sufficient, I think some organizers don't care who are what they are associating with.


Another classic case of "reaching across the aisle"?

204 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:58:51pm

The original Tea Party was to protest the government taxing people without representing them. The government is now spending money they don't have without representation. The tea parties sound like a great idea to wake D.C. up that we are not blind to their financial malfeasance. Unfortunately poorly organized spontaneous outrage has allowed paranoids and fools to have a public soapbox.

205 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:59:35pm

re: #202 reine.de.tout

Actually, in some places, "any kook" is being courted to join, I think.

They do it to inflate their numbers not realizing that it keeps the sane people observing on the sidelines from getting involved. Very counterproductive.

206 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:59:45pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

What does that mean?

how do you ban people from a lawful assembly?...with a stern word and unfriendly glare?

207 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 6:59:55pm

re: #185 cowbellallen

I don't know if you guys knew this, but the same guy that did Borat has a new movie coming out where he's a gay fashion designer. He tricked Ron Paul into giving an interview... I don't want to really spoil it in case people don't want to know, but he ridicules Paul in it and it'll prolly hurt his reputation.

That's like claiming that if someone ends up on Sat. Night Live, that it will hurt their reputation.

The Ron Paul scene is funny, yes Paul didn't realize that it was a set up, but hey, it's not going to hurt anyone.

If anything, he'll be seen as "cool" for appearing in a scene with Bruno (comedian Sasha Baron Cohen).

IMHO

208 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:00:04pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I'm stiking with Basil, Kumquats and Wasabi for now.

Basil is a good cover !

//

209 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:00:26pm

I paid just a little too much in taxes to the State of California. Now they are dragging their feet in giving me my refund. Bastards.

I will NOT make this mistake again.

210 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:00:55pm

re: #173 burntjohn

I do not get it, every moodbat tinfoil-hat libtard can debate and disagree with any administration.
But those on the right must adhere to some format?
Screw that!

So, what's the Right's answer to Swollen Scrotum Man?

211 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:10pm

re: #190 Sharmuta

How unfortunate, I wonder what the media coverage will portray? I imagine because of the aforementioned problems, it will either be: ignored or ridiculed. Probably, the later.

Or, it could be cleaned up prior to Aprill 15th aka Michelle Malkin. Not counting on it...

212 Killer Tomato  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:11pm

So where would we have this energy directed?
I have no problem with attending the tea party nearest me and distributing handouts, but what would you all recommend that they say?
Who should people contact? (other than their elected officials)
What should people do?
Groups?
Websites?
What?

213 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:15pm

re: #190 Sharmuta

The creators of this "movement" have been negligent in that they didn't form an organizational body to control the message. Now any kook can jump on board.

Are you talking about the Tea Party people, or the Democrat Party!?!?!?

//// (sort of)

214 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:24pm

re: #200 Charles

Alex Jones is all over the "tea parties." Check out infowars.com.

The kooks are having a field day with this.

I think since February? He's actually had others that he himself themed as Tea Parties.

Of course it's being ignored or they want to ignore this but that won't change things. In the end I'm pretty sure they'll just want to blame you for pointing this out.

215 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:26pm

re: #185 cowbellallen

Sacha Baron Cohen, he's really, really obnoxious and hilarious. I just about busted a gut seeing him doing the Ali G thing on a flight from the UK.

216 jaunte  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:26pm

re: #210 MandyManners

So, what's the Right's answer to Swollen Scrotum Man?

It may have something to do with bagpipes.

217 hazzyday  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:33pm

re: #209 Racer X

I paid just a little too much in taxes to the State of California. Now they are dragging their feet in giving me my refund. Bastards.

I will NOT make this mistake again.

Sounds Barbaric, Almost makes one stay hungry.

218 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:01:47pm

re: #206 albusteve

how do you ban people from a lawful assembly?...with a stern word and unfriendly glare?

It isn't that people should be banned from assembly -
It's that the "tea party" groups in various locations are trying to get their attendance numbers up, are associating with groups that are well-formed that are taking over the agenda.

219 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:02:30pm

re: #209 Racer X

I paid just a little too much in taxes to the State of California. Now they are dragging their feet in giving me my refund. Bastards.

I will NOT make this mistake again.

* * * *
Turbotax asks you if you want the IRS to earmark any refund towards your 2009 indebtedness. Yes, give Obama your money interest free!

220 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:02:32pm

OT- pirate report on radio - "The Navy wants to not use force if at all possible."

Worthless.

221 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:02:33pm

re: #210 MandyManners

So, what's the Right's answer to Swollen Scrotum Man?

Glenn Beck.

222 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:02:47pm

re: #210 MandyManners

So, what's the Right's answer to Swollen Scrotum Man?

Must....fight off....mental image......

223 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:01pm

re: #218 reine.de.tout

It isn't that people should be banned from assembly -
It's that the "tea party" groups in various locations are trying to get their attendance numbers up, are associating with groups that are well-formed that are taking over the agenda.

I know that...that is not the thrust of my post, in response to banning people from your assembly

224 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:01pm

re: #195 burntjohn

Vote for obama again? What makes you say that?

225 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:06pm

re: #210 MandyManners

So, what's the Right's answer to Swollen Scrotum Man?

Call me old fashioned, but conservatives should not show up at rallies with uniquely situated genitalia on display.

226 Killian Bundy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:07pm

The hypothetical "Tea Party" isn't until July in Chicago at Lake Michigan.

/accept no substitute for the Santelli brand

227 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:40pm

re: #220 Walter L. Newton

OT- pirate report on radio - "The Navy wants to not use force if at all possible."

Worthless.

That's what I figured.

228 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:45pm

re: #183 eddiespaghetti

For me, no. I'm not a fan of Obama's budget and all the wasteful entitlement programs. Although I'm in favor of progressive taxation I don't want him to raise taxes an the rich. I make a living off rich people so I'm happy when they have money.
The Tea Party's opposition to bailing out the banks is a problem for me. The biggest mistake made in this crisis was letting Lehman Brothers fail. Repeating that same mistake another dozen times is not a good idea. Like it or not we need to save our financial infrastructure (which hinges on about a dozen banks). If we let them collapse we're going to see runs on banks. Everybody will rush to get their money out before they collapse. This will accelerate the process. Even banks that aren't in trouble will fail because nobody knows which banks are safe. Everybody will just keep their money at home. Your employer will have the same problem, if he doesn't get his money out in time you'll get no paycheck. You won't be able to pay your rent. ATM machines will be cleaned out and shut down.
It's really an apocalyptic scenario. Ron Paul is open about this. He wants to destroy the financial infrasture so he can abolish the FED and go back to the gold standard for the dollar. Regular conservatives have an instinct against the bailouts and are just being duped into supporting Ron Paul's destructive agenda.

229 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:45pm

re: #183 eddiespaghetti

So, is the point here that the 'tea party' concept itself is fine (anti trillion dollar debt for years to come). But, the right has been negligent in that it has allowed Paulians and other assorted kooks to co-opt the concept?

It's more than that.

Only about 20% or so on either end of the spectrum are active and pay attention to the issues.

For the 60% in the middle they get "informed" by Tom Brokjaw, The Perky One and other talking heads at 6pm over dinner.

The media will be more than glad to paint the any movement on the right with the kookiest element.

The folks in the middle will look at the tea party movement, and not get the message of lower taxes, lower spending etc.... they'll get the message of kooks.

230 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:47pm

re: #193 burntjohn

I got a pot of coffee to make, laundry to do and a dog to walk.
Some folks here are really getting under my skin tonight.

And, I'm sure you're getting under some folks' skin tonight, bj. No problem. It all comes out in the wash.

231 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:03:52pm

re: #220 Walter L. Newton

Jimmy Carter is now secretary of the navy?

232 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:04:02pm

Cya tomorrow Lizards. Storm has stopped. Have to go out to see what damage it has wrought. I know I lost one tree and part of a fence !

233 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:04:21pm

re: #210 MandyManners

So, what's the Right's answer to Swollen Scrotum Man?

Swollen Head Sean Hannity.

234 pink freud  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:04:43pm

re: #225 Catttt

Call me old fashioned, but conservatives should not show up at rallies with uniquely situated genitalia on display.

Prude!

////////////////

:D

235 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:04:55pm

re: #204 David IV of Georgia

The original Tea Party was to protest the government taxing people without representing them. The government is now spending money they don't have without representation. The tea parties sound like a great idea to wake D.C. up that we are not blind to their financial malfeasance. Unfortunately poorly organized spontaneous outrage has allowed paranoids and fools to have a public soapbox.

That pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell.

236 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:05:00pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

well said...your're on a roll

237 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:05:02pm

re: #210 MandyManners

So, what's the Right's answer to Swollen Scrotum Man?

Men on the right already have big brass ones. No inflation necessary!

*ducks*

238 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:05:24pm

re: #223 albusteve

I know that...that is not the thrust of my post, in response to banning people from your assembly

It's not my assembly . . .

239 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:05:46pm

re: #220 Walter L. Newton

OT- pirate report on radio - "The Navy wants to not use force if at all possible."

Worthless.

Guess they're hoping for a meet-up with kinder, gentler, moderate pirates, yes? Good luck with that, Navy.

240 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:05:52pm

re: #238 reine.de.tout

It's not my assembly . . .

I saw that...bad wordage

241 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:05:53pm

re: #236 albusteve

well said...your're on a Troll

thats just not right !

//

242 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:05:54pm

re: #216 jaunte

It may have something to do with bagpipes.

*burying head in hands*

243 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:06:30pm

re: #221 Sharmuta

Glenn Beck.

Oh, he's way out there.

244 rawmuse  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:06:33pm

re: #132 Charles

I agree with Killgore. This "movement" is headed toward the cliff, because the adults are behaving like angry children, and nobody seems to care enough to keep the kooks out.

Well, I have done what I can do. Staying home. Working to pay my taxes. As usual.

245 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:06:41pm

This whole pirate/hostage BS is reminding me soooo much of 1979.....

246 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:06:50pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I believe you are right about the banks.

247 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:07:00pm

re: #222 Mithrax

Must....fight off....mental image......

Good luck with that.

248 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:07:06pm

re: #220 Walter L. Newton

OT- pirate report on radio - "The Navy wants to not use force if at all possible."

Worthless.

At the risk of criticism, I was thinking earlier that going out of the way to make sure the life of the Captain is spared is about as bright as stopping an assault in a battle would be if the Commanding Officer was captured.

I truly do not understand why the Captain is an exception.

249 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:07:15pm

re: #206 albusteve

how do you ban people from a lawful assembly?...with a stern word and unfriendly glare?

when they spout craziness, you make it clear you don't agree with them. Don't allow tem speaks slots and make sure in both the invitations and follow-up reports that crazies are unwelcome at your event. There will always be some crazies on our side, but firm action can keep the damage they do to an acceptable minimum.

250 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:07:23pm

re: #225 Catttt

Call me old fashioned, but conservatives should not show up at rallies with uniquely situated genitalia on display.

Goes without saying.

251 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:07:49pm

re: #247 MandyManners

Good luck with that.

Yeah. It ain't working none too well.

Thanks for the next month's worth of nightmares :P

252 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:07:55pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

Swollen Head Sean Hannity.

DING! DING! DING!

253 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:08:32pm

Alright. Enough bitching. Here is my solution:

Stand down.

Let the current administration do their thing. I have strong doubts that they will be successful at resolving any of our current problems. If they do great.

But we should not take the focus OFF of Washington. The Tea PArties are doing just that - shifting the focus away from Obama and onto themselves.

Bad move.

254 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:08:44pm

re: #221 Sharmuta

Glenn Beck.

A big dick-head?

255 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:08:49pm

re: #244 rawmuse

Well, I have done what I can do. Staying home. Working to pay my taxes. As usual.

I have a bit of difficulty accepting that is the only thing we can do in order to aid our country. The tea party idea may not be it, but there has to be another way.

256 jamgarr  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:08:54pm

re: #250 MandyManners

Goes without saying.


An enormous schwanzstuker!

257 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:08:56pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

ron paul is unconstrained- he would tear down the very society he claims to want to save in order to build up his utopia.

258 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:09:11pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I'm really close to agreeing with you on this one. I may even give it an upding.

259 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:09:35pm

re: #237 jcm

Men on the right already have big brass ones. No inflation necessary!

*ducks*

DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING!

Or, should it be:

CLANGCLANGCLANG?

260 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:10:06pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

Swollen Head Sean Hannity.

I wonder if sean vanity is seething that beck is getting more attention these days.

261 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:10:07pm

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

when they spout craziness, you make it clear you don't agree with them. Don't allow tem speaks slots and make sure in both the invitations and follow-up reports that crazies are unwelcome at your event. There will always be some crazies on our side, but firm action can keep the damage they do to an acceptable minimum.

how do you know that?...firm action? they love that stuff...controlling the media is the solution....when you tell someone they are unwelcome at your event, three times more show up for the next one...

262 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:10:27pm

re: #251 Mithrax

Yeah. It ain't working none too well.

Thanks for the next month's worth of nightmares :P

Have you ever seen the photographs?

263 Racer X  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:10:57pm

Goin for a walk.

biab

264 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:11:02pm

re: #255 Boxy_brown

I have a bit of difficulty accepting that is the only thing we can do in order to aid our country. The tea party idea may not be it, but there has to be another way.

I would like to see conservatives quietly take over newspapers ripe for the picking, starting with the NYT, Boston Globe, etc.

Until something that happens, abandon all hope, I'm afraid.

265 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:11:16pm

re: 205 Sharmuta

re: #202 reine.de.tout

Actually, in some places, "any kook" is being courted to join, I think.

They do it to inflate their numbers not realizing that it keeps the sane people observing on the sidelines from getting involved. Very counterproductive.

John Wesley, the Anglican priest who accidentally started Methodism, was invited to preach at some churches in Ireland. When he returned, people asked him: "How many people joined the church?" "How many people rededicated their lives to God?" His reply, "There were some blessed retractions." (in other words, some people left the church) Sometimes it is better to have smaller numbers. Sometimes it is desirable to cut a few sick cows from the herd.

266 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:11:21pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

Agreed, but we have a progressive tax structure last time I looked...

The only thing that is not progressive as far as taxes is a sales tax or a tax on cigs (po people love them cigs)...

Bailing out the banks was required to forestall a total meltdown in the financial market, period. Does it suck, yep. Should we penalize them, tbd.

JCM; I hope not, that is the whole point of the tea party, me thinks.?

267 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:11:24pm

re: #245 whiterasta

This whole pirate/hostage BS is reminding me soooo much of 1979.....

Right. Because Reagan would have gone in there with guns blazing and spattered the American captain with his captors' intestinal contents, saving him without a scratch.

Is the point to make a point, or is it to save the life of this poor man?

What about the American-owned ship and crewmen that were held hostage for 56 days under Bush?

You think the options would be different under McCain? Get a grip!

Piracy on the high seas is not a frakkin' Rambo movie.

268 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:11:48pm

re: #253 Racer X

Alright. Enough bitching. Here is my solution:

Stand down.

Let the current administration do their thing. I have strong doubts that they will be successful at resolving any of our current problems. If they do great.

But we should not take the focus OFF of Washington. The Tea PArties are doing just that - shifting the focus away from Obama and onto themselves.

Bad move.

But, what kind of power do we have in D.C. with a buncha' fucking RINO's such as Specter, Snowe and Collins?

HELL, EVEN CANTOR VOTED TO HAVE THE AIG BONUSES TAXED AT 90 PER CENT!

269 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:12:00pm

re: #262 MandyManners

Have you ever seen the photographs?

Yes. I have. That's why I'm fighting off the image.

If I hadn't seen them I'd have said "What are you guys talking about?". But I've seen them, and wish, oh I wish I'd never have seen them :P

270 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:12:01pm

re: #264 jwb7605

I would like to see conservatives quietly take over newspapers ripe for the picking, starting with the NYT, Boston Globe, etc.

Until something likethat happens, abandon all hope, I'm afraid.


Like, the like like disappeared!

271 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:12:23pm

re: #256 jamgarr

An enormous schwanzstuker!

Any kin to the governor of California?

272 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:12:46pm

re: #248 jwb7605

At the risk of criticism, I was thinking earlier that going out of the way to make sure the life of the Captain is spared is about as bright as stopping an assault in a battle would be if the Commanding Officer was captured.

I truly do not understand why the Captain is an exception.

i don't want to see anyone "sacrificed," but this is fucking too much. This has now been going on for years, pull off by people who don't even answer to a government, people who don't answer to a local authority, a world authority or a moral authority.

These Somali's are vermin, scum, no better than some cheap mafia thugs on the streets of New York, and what in the world is the world doing treating them like some after school special.

Fuck this shit, stop them, now, with an action that will determine the whole future of the Somali pirate business... arrrgggggghhhh matey.

273 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:13:18pm

re: #260 Sharmuta

I wonder if sean vanity is seething that beck is getting more attention these days.

I think Beck's popularity is fleeting. Kinda' like a two-headed calf.

274 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:13:26pm

Speaking of kooks, some joker was on local radio last night calling the original Boston tea party racist because they dressed up like American Indians.

275 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:13:27pm

re: #264 jwb7605

I would like to see conservatives quietly take over newspapers ripe for the picking, starting with the NYT, Boston Globe, etc.

Until something that happens, abandon all hope, I'm afraid.

I'd rather those papers do their jobs as journalists rather than be a right leaning version of what they are today.

276 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:14:02pm

re: #264 jwb7605

I would like to see conservatives quietly take over newspapers ripe for the picking, starting with the NYT, Boston Globe, etc.

Until something that happens, abandon all hope, I'm afraid.

We are going toward a paradigm where people seek out whatever media best confirms their pre-existing prejudices, IMHO. Yes, we need much better media efforts and manipulation on the "right' but we are probably going to be seeing diminishing returns, especially from the print media.

A more center right version of the daily show would probably be as or more effective.

277 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:14:05pm

re: #258 Racer X

I've been checking around to see if anyone reputable has written about what a hypothetical banking collapse would look like in the modern world. The only thing I find is stuff from the Great Depression, which was pretty bad. I have yet to have anyone tell me what it would be like if we lost 50% of our financial structure. I'd guess a good run on banks would take out 70-80% but I'm just guessing.

Saving the banks is a bummer but I don;t see any other reasonable way around it. What we should be more concerned with is how to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

278 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:14:24pm

re: #267 Cato the Elder

Right. Because Reagan would have gone in there with guns blazing and spattered the American captain with his captors' intestinal contents, saving him without a scratch.

Is the point to make a point, or is it to save the life of this poor man?

What about the American-owned ship and crewmen that were held hostage for 56 days under Bush?

You think the options would be different under McCain? Get a grip!

Piracy on the high seas is not a frakkin' Rambo movie.

I wonder if the piracy would have continued unchecked under a McCain presidency.

279 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:15:07pm

re: #269 Mithrax

Yes. I have. That's why I'm fighting off the image.

If I hadn't seen them I'd have said "What are you guys talking about?". But I've seen them, and wish, oh I wish I'd never have seen them :P

For me, seeing the photographs diffused a lot of crazy imagery.

280 jamgarr  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:15:15pm

re: #270 jwb7605

Like, the like like disappeared!


A seven-foot tall, three-foot wide monster? - could be.

281 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:15:22pm

re: #273 MandyManners

I think Beck's popularity is fleeting. Kinda' like a two-headed calf.

More like a monkey with four asses.

-South Park reference

282 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:16:04pm

re: #264 jwb7605

I would like to see conservatives quietly take over newspapers ripe for the picking, starting with the NYT, Boston Globe, etc.

Until something that happens, abandon all hope, I'm afraid.

* * *
why throw good money after bad, in a medium that's going down?

283 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:16:12pm

re: #272 Walter L. Newton

i don't want to see anyone "sacrificed," but this is fucking too much. This has now been going on for years, pull off by people who don't even answer to a government, people who don't answer to a local authority, a world authority or a moral authority.

These Somali's are vermin, scum, no better than some cheap mafia thugs on the streets of New York, and what in the world is the world doing treating them like some after school special.

Fuck this shit, stop them, now, with an action that will determine the whole future of the Somali pirate business... arrrgggggghhhh matey.


"sacrifice" and losing a man in a rescue attempt are two different things.
Standing down is unacceptable.
I say that as a former military person with a son in the military, and have heard John McCain echo similar sentiments.
If it were my own son, I would not want the country to back off on his behalf. Choices have been made, and sometimes there are unwanted consequences.

284 jamgarr  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:16:14pm

280 was supposed to be in response to 271

285 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:16:41pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

More like a monkey with four asses.

-South Park reference

I think I vaguely recall that one.

286 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:00pm

re: #283 jwb7605

"sacrifice" and losing a man in a rescue attempt are two different things.
Standing down is unacceptable.
I say that as a former military person with a son in the military, and have heard John McCain echo similar sentiments.
If it were my own son, I would not want the country to back off on his behalf. Choices have been made, and sometimes there are unwanted consequences.

287 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:10pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

I've been checking around to see if anyone reputable has written about what a hypothetical banking collapse would look like in the modern world. The only thing I find is stuff from the Great Depression, which was pretty bad. I have yet to have anyone tell me what it would be like if we lost 50% of our financial structure. I'd guess a good run on banks would take out 70-80% but I'm just guessing.

Saving the banks is a bummer but I don;t see any other reasonable way around it. What we should be more concerned with is how to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

I do. Let the damn banks fail, people will get hurt, a lot of people, really hurt, and the folks in the street will make sure it doesn't happen again for a long time.

Fill in the back story yourself!

288 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:13pm

re: #284 jamgarr

280 was supposed to be in response to 271

Was not.

289 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:23pm

re: #276 Boxy_brown

We are going toward a paradigm where people seek out whatever media best confirms their pre-existing prejudices, IMHO. Yes, we need much better media efforts and manipulation on the "right' but we are probably going to be seeing diminishing returns, especially from the print media.

A more center right version of the daily show would probably be as or more effective.

For most of America's history the newspapers were like that. The 'objective' media is a Post WWII phenomenon driven by the initial scarcity of TV channels and the resultant need for news programs to appeal to the widest possible audiance.

290 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:23pm

re: #279 MandyManners

For me, seeing the photographs diffused a lot of crazy imagery.

lol

I work with tons of liberals, most of whom are reasonable people, but there are a few that I think "Soon, soon you folks shall be amongst them!"

291 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:42pm

OT

What would 0bama hope to gain by releasing Reagan's records?

292 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:45pm

re: #265 David IV of Georgia

Sometimes it is desirable to cut a few sick cows from the herd.

I agree, which is why I don't mind pissing off the unconstrained in the GOP.

293 FQ Kafir  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:51pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

More like a monkey with four asses.

-South Park reference

Alas, like a shooting star, he must reach a zenith (prime time), before winking out.

294 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:17:54pm

re: #278 MandyManners

I wonder if the piracy would have continued unchecked under a McCain presidency.

Right. Bush couldn't/didn't do a thing to quell it, but McCain and Palin would have shut it down with a moose gun and a wolf helicopter. Or maybe they'd have sent in Track or Truck or Troop to do the job. Or even Bristle.

295 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:18:10pm

re: #283 jwb7605

I put it in quotes, for the Avanti's lurking around here. Of course I agree with you 100 percent.

296 jamgarr  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:18:14pm

re: #288 MandyManners

Was not.


I didn't say it was a good response.

297 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:18:17pm

re: #286 albusteve

bullshit...you would be crapping your britches to see him bought out...pay the pirates and get the skipper back...it aint the Alamo yet

298 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:18:20pm

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

I do. Let the damn banks fail, people will get hurt, a lot of people, really hurt, and the folks in the street will make sure it doesn't happen again for a long time.

Fill in the back story yourself!

Might you not feel otherwise if you had a huge chunk of change and a child you're trying to prepare for life?

299 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:18:22pm

re: #282 alegrias

* * *
why throw good money after bad, in a medium that's going down?

I have this stupid theory that people might buy news that was actually fit to print.

Might be a stupid theory, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

300 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:18:45pm

re: #267 Cato the Elder

..."What about the American-owned ship and crewmen that were held hostage for 56 days under Bush?..."

I'm not familiar with that situation. Please enlighten me.

301 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:18:56pm

re: #290 Mithrax

lol

I work with tons of liberals, most of whom are reasonable people, but there are a few that I think "Soon, soon you folks shall be amongst them!"

I woner what SCM does for a living.

302 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:19:00pm

re: #285 MandyManners

I think I vaguely recall that one.

It was from the episode where Professor Mephisto creates a mutant version of Stan.

303 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:19:10pm

re: #291 sngnsgt

OT

What would 0bama hope to gain by releasing Reagan's records?

I thought there was a law that declassified materials after 20 years or so.

304 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:19:58pm

re: #296 jamgarr

I didn't say it was a good response.

(U R s'pose ta say "Waz 2".)

305 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:20:14pm

re: #283 jwb7605

"sacrifice" and losing a man in a rescue attempt are two different things.
Standing down is unacceptable.
I say that as a former military person with a son in the military, and have heard John McCain echo similar sentiments.
If it were my own son, I would not want the country to back off on his behalf. Choices have been made, and sometimes there are unwanted consequences.

The larger looming issue is a bunch of Thugocracies are watching this very closely to get a measure of the man in the White House.

So far the response appears weak, and the Thugs are taking notes.

306 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:20:24pm

re: #291 sngnsgt

OT

What would 0bama hope to gain by releasing Reagan's records?

A political education, if he reads them.

307 IslandLibertarian  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:20:25pm

re: #42 Dianna

The depths of my love for Japanese Monster Movies (from the 50's and 60's) is bottomless.

Just for you..........

308 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:20:29pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

All the bs about this being the worst downturn since 1929 is bunk! Let me remind you all that a recession is defined by two successive declines in GDP. A Depression is more fuzzy, defined by either: a decline in real GDP exceeding 10%, and 2) a recession lasting 3 or more years.

Are we there yet?

309 jamgarr  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:20:31pm

re: #304 MandyManners

(U R s'pose ta say "Waz 2".)


Ooooof!

310 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:20:44pm

re: #304 MandyManners

(U R s'pose ta say "Waz 2".)

Word.

311 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:20:55pm

re: #294 Cato the Elder

Right. Bush couldn't/didn't do a thing to quell it, but McCain and Palin would have shut it down with a moose gun and a wolf helicopter. Or maybe they'd have sent in Track or Truck or Troop to do the job. Or even Bristle.

Now, where did I say that? Please, show me my words.

312 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:21:24pm

re: #289 Dark_Falcon

For most of America's history the newspapers were like that. The 'objective' media is a Post WWII phenomenon driven by the initial scarcity of TV channels and the resultant need for news programs to appeal to the widest possible audiance.

Quite right. With the internet though and 50000 channels of crap on the tv it has become even more stratified. People are getting their information in a way that also fulfills some other need... they can get the headlines and another reason to hate Bush, etc... and message is becoming even more tailored to the viewer.

313 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:21:28pm

re: #294 Cato the Elder

It is ridiculous for America to be held hostage by a bunch of bare footed, illiterate barbarians.

Ridiculous.

314 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:21:38pm

re: #301 MandyManners

I woner what SCM does for a living.

Probably something quite banal and unassuming.

315 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:21:43pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

It was from the episode where Professor Mephisto creates a mutant version of Stan.

Okay. I didn't see it. I must've read about it here.

316 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:21:54pm

Yeah- it's the Freedom of Information Act. They have to release these documents.

317 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:21:55pm

re: #300 whiterasta

..."What about the American-owned ship and crewmen that were held hostage for 56 days under Bush?..."

I'm not familiar with that situation. Please enlighten me.

Looking for citation as we type...

318 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:22:05pm

re: #307 IslandLibertarian

The depths of my love for Japanese Monster Movies (from the 50's and 60's) is bottomless.

Just for you..........

Monster movies? I love monster movies...Cheepnis

319 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:22:15pm

re: #313 whiterasta

It is ridiculous for America to be held hostage by a bunch of bare footed, illiterate barbarians.

Ridiculous.

we are very good at it...experts

320 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:22:26pm

re: #298 MandyManners

Might you not feel otherwise if you had a huge chunk of change and a child you're trying to prepare for life?

Nope. we've reach the edge, whether anyone has noticed. All the niceties need to go the way of the dodo. It's not a game show, there is no runners up in what is happening right now.

It's time for tough decisions.

321 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:22:45pm

re: #314 Mithrax

Probably something quite banal and unassuming.

A C.P.A.!

322 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:22:54pm

I can see it now though- the right will go nuts that 0bama's releasing this information and disregard the law he's actually upholding, while continuing to not go after the man on real policy issues. *sigh*

323 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:23:51pm

re: #321 MandyManners

A C.P.A.!

I'm trying to make a bean counting joke, but it just isn't coming.

324 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:23:57pm

re: #320 Walter L. Newton

Nope. we've reach the edge, whether anyone has noticed. All the niceties need to go the way of the dodo. It's not a game show, there is no runners up in what is happening right now.

It's time for tough decisions.

yeah right....America's image is worth sacrificing your son for?

325 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:01pm

re: #322 Sharmuta

I can see it now though- the right will go nuts that 0bama's releasing this information and disregard the law he's actually upholding, while continuing to not go after the man on real policy issues. *sigh*

Have u seen my burdie?

326 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:07pm

re: #305 jcm

The larger looming issue is a bunch of Thugocracies are watching this very closely to get a measure of the man in the White House.

So far the response appears weak, and the Thugs are taking notes.

Exactly.

327 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:16pm

re: #319 albusteve

Yea, you are correct, unfortunately.

328 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:24pm

re: #300 whiterasta

..."What about the American-owned ship and crewmen that were held hostage for 56 days under Bush?..."

I'm not familiar with that situation. Please enlighten me.

It was in China.

That was a vastly different situation because we were dealing with a nation-state that plays a significant role in international affairs and actually does care about its image.

329 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:28pm

re: #311 MandyManners
Cato sees it as an excuse to drag Palin's kids into a discussion.

330 Killer Tomato  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:34pm

Let me try this again.

So where would we have this energy directed?
I have no problem with attending the tea party nearest me and distributing handouts, but what would you all recommend that they say?
Who should people contact? (other than their elected officials, I plan to include those addresses, emails, phones & faxes)
Groups?
Websites?
Books?

We're going to have a slew of people who are unhappy with the present administration/government gathered in specific places and instead of providing them with useful information and recommendations, we're simply going to cede them to the kooks?

I can do this on my own, but you're the smartest, most politically aware and savvy group I know; I was hoping for a little assistance here.

331 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:41pm

re: #313 whiterasta

It is ridiculous for America to be held hostage by a bunch of bare footed, illiterate barbarians.

Ridiculous.

"America" is not being held hostage. One poor, brave man is. You want to play Rambo at his expense? Really?

332 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:24:54pm

re: #325 Bloodnok

Have u seen my burdie?

Yes

333 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:25:05pm

re: #316 Sharmuta

Yeah- it's the Freedom of Information Act. They have to release these documents.

Oh, gosh. Filling out and filing one of these is better than sex.

334 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:25:08pm

re: #324 albusteve

yeah right....America's image is worth sacrificing your son for?

bad fu....DRINK!

335 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:25:56pm

Keel haul all pirates, questions?

336 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:25:58pm

re: #299 jwb7605

I have this stupid theory that people might buy news that was actually fit to print.

Might be a stupid theory, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

* * * * *
Now would be the time to test your theory of buying crappy lefty rags low, and turning a profit with a decent product. Good luck!

337 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:26:00pm

re: #330 Killer Tomato

Let me try this again.

So where would we have this energy directed?
I have no problem with attending the tea party nearest me and distributing handouts, but what would you all recommend that they say?
Who should people contact? (other than their elected officials, I plan to include those addresses, emails, phones & faxes)
Groups?
Websites?
Books?

We're going to have a slew of people who are unhappy with the present administration/government gathered in specific places and instead of providing them with useful information and recommendations, we're simply going to cede them to the kooks?

I can do this on my own, but you're the smartest, most politically aware and savvy group I know; I was hoping for a little assistance here.

An excellent question.

338 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:26:04pm

re: #320 Walter L. Newton

Nope. we've reach the edge, whether anyone has noticed. All the niceties need to go the way of the dodo. It's not a game show, there is no runners up in what is happening right now.

It's time for tough decisions.

We'll have to agree to disagree, Walter.

339 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:26:08pm

Everyone -

Really too bad. The Paulians have economics about right. as for the rest, they are at best in the 1880's. Last time I looked, the Common Era Calendar read 2009.

-S-

340 SteveC  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:26:29pm

re: #305 jcm

The larger looming issue is a bunch of Thugocracies are watching this very closely to get a measure of the man in the White House.

So far the response appears weak, and the Thugs are taking notes.

VP Biden did say that Obama would be tested within six months. To mangle a Jeff Foxworthy line, "Here's your test!"

341 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:26:30pm

re: #323 Mithrax

I'm trying to make a bean counting joke, but it just isn't coming.

DON'T FORGET THE FRANKS!

342 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:26:52pm

re: #283 jwb7605

"sacrifice" and losing a man in a rescue attempt are two different things.
Standing down is unacceptable.
I say that as a former military person with a son in the military, and have heard John McCain echo similar sentiments.
If it were my own son, I would not want the country to back off on his behalf. Choices have been made, and sometimes there are unwanted consequences.

Sure if the captain's life can be spared without giving in to the pirats' demands, we should do so. However, if it were my son, my brother or my father being held hostage by those pirates, although it would be much harder to say, I say let them never set foot on dry land again. No ransom, no arrests, no quarter.

343 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:27:11pm

re: #324 albusteve

yeah right....America's image is worth sacrificing your son for?

Was Pearl Harbor worth the eventual sacrifice of several million sons?
We could easily have conceded Hawaii and stayed out of Europe.

344 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:27:16pm

re: #323 Mithrax

I'm trying to make a bean counting joke, but it just isn't coming.

And, I'll ignore everything after "but" in your post.

345 The Other Les  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:27:19pm

From the Gosh, What A Surprise, Department:

“Curly Bill” was so-called because of his head of thick, curly black hair. After the death of “Old Man” Clanton, he became the leader of the “Cowboys” gang of cattle rustlers in Tombstone, Arizona. He also worked for a while as a tax collector for Cochise County Sheriff John Behan.

346 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:27:22pm

re: #341 MandyManners

DON'T FORGET THE FRANKS!

a pot full of bawney fwanks!.....mmmmm!

347 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:27:28pm

re: #305 jcm

The larger looming issue is a bunch of Thugocracies are watching this very closely to get a measure of the man in the White House. So far the response appears weak, and the Thugs are taking notes.

They are not afraid of us. People like that have one very big advantage over us, always have. That's a total disregard for human life. When a human being is valued as no better than another token, a check, a means of commerce, whether it be slavery or simply a walking bomb, they hold the upper hand.

While the west doesn't go to those extremes, in the past we have simply made the hard decisions, and that is, to kill the enemy, to hurt the enemy, to do permanent damage to the other side.

It's a fact of existence, no, we can't all get along, and there are times you have to hurt another human being.

We've gotten real close to loosing that knowledge, the ability to protect ourselves, the moral freedom to kill when necessary.

348 freetoken  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:27:40pm

To follow up on my last post... about the people we see in those videos from the small OH town:

While I labeled them "blue collar", it is also clear that some of them are something more specified than that. For example, the guy concerned about communists and electronic mischief (low-brow variant of Bircher), the Constitution Party brown shirt (classic Bircher), and the pen waver who wants the Mormon-ized variant of John Birch (Skousen) as required high school reading - all of these paint a pretty clear picture of what this movement is about.

Even if the videographer herself wants to mostly mock the idea (maybe? I'm uncertain about this as young folk in small midwestern towns suffer tremendously from boredom - I know, been there done that), the participants in that group that we have been shown really are not those with whom I personally want to be associated.

Call me an elitist if you will, or even a "liberal" (though that would seem weird to me), but those people participating in that bar are practicing a form of a national religion whose doctrines are built upon suspicion, ignorance, and misplaced loyalties.

349 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:27:57pm

re: #329 snowcrash

Cato sees it as an excuse to drag Palin's kids into a discussion.

I was trying to figure out the strange words. Thanks for the tip-off.

350 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:28:06pm

re: #343 jwb7605

Was Pearl Harbor worth the eventual sacrifice of several million sons?
We could easily have conceded Hawaii and stayed out of Europe.

don't get the question...sorry

351 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:28:07pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

Never got an answer, guess the case is closed.

352 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:28:17pm

re: #316 Sharmuta

Yeah- it's the Freedom of Information Act. They have to release these documents.

Ahh, the headline leads one to think it's something 0bama did as a jab at Reagan.

353 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:28:51pm

re: #341 MandyManners

DON'T FORGET THE FRANKS!

Franks and beans! Franks and Beans!

ok. Now I feel unclean after that :P

354 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:28:58pm

re: #340 SteveC

VP Biden did say that Obama would be tested within six months. To mangle a Jeff Foxworthy line, "Here's your test!"

Pirates are warm up quiz.

355 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:29:33pm

re: #300 whiterasta

..."What about the American-owned ship and crewmen that were held hostage for 56 days under Bush?..."

I'm not familiar with that situation. Please enlighten me.

Here's one version of the story.

356 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:29:48pm

re: #352 sngnsgt

Ahh, the headline leads one to think it's something 0bama did as a jab at Reagan.

Of course! The msm wants us to fly off the handle and ignore the man's policies. It's standard deflection. They know some on the right will attack this without thinking. Don't listen to them.

357 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:29:49pm

re: #331 Cato the Elder

I disagree with you, there. It is not only America being held hostage.

It is the whole world being held hostage by these barbarians.

They should be dealt with in the most deadly and punitive manner possible.

358 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:29:56pm

re: #331 Cato the Elder

"America" is not being held hostage. One poor, brave man is. You want to play Rambo at his expense? Really?

Well, yes and no.

I'll take the "no" for now. It is not up to the U.S.A. to pay the ransom. That is up to the company's insurance folks.

359 WindHorse  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:30:23pm

if Captain Phillips dies, I will be so pissed.....

360 Killian Bundy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:31:01pm

All 19 of the top banks passed the "stress test" and Wells Fargo reported record earnings yesterday.

/just sayin'

361 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:31:04pm
362 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:31:28pm

re: #359 WindHorse

if Captain Phillips dies, I will be so pissed.....

me too...there is no excuse to lose him...so far

363 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:31:40pm

re: #331 Cato the Elder

"America" is not being held hostage. One poor, brave man is. You want to play Rambo at his expense? Really?


What's with the Rambo analogy?

364 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:32:00pm

FARC hostages. Finally released on a deal worth 20 million dollars including US monies payed for the release according to reports.

The three were seized by the rebels as they conducted an anti-drug mission for the Pentagon in February 2003.

Released in 2008. Held for 5 years.

See FARC leaders were paid millions to free hostages

365 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:32:36pm

re: #335 eddiespaghetti

Keel haul all pirates, questions?

Let's check in with Skippy Squirrel, shall we?

366 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:33:19pm

re: #330 Killer Tomato

Let me try this again.

So where would we have this energy directed?
I have no problem with attending the tea party nearest me and distributing handouts, but what would you all recommend that they say?
Who should people contact? (other than their elected officials, I plan to include those addresses, emails, phones & faxes)
Groups?
Websites?
Books?

We're going to have a slew of people who are unhappy with the present administration/government gathered in specific places and instead of providing them with useful information and recommendations, we're simply going to cede them to the kooks?

I can do this on my own, but you're the smartest, most politically aware and savvy group I know; I was hoping for a little assistance here.

* * * * *
Assuming any of the Tea Party attendees sat out the last Presidential election, their energy could be pointed at using the existing mechanisms for redress of grievances, namely their government representatives. We have elected officials at the city, county, state, national level. Most normal political parties have meetings every month, whether Young Republicans, College Republicans, etc.

ACORN and union people's whole purpose is to AFFECT ELECTIONS.

We should encourage people to use their VOTE power strategically, and get informed.

367 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:33:28pm

re: #355 Cato the Elder

Thanks. I rest my case.

These barbarians should be terminated with extreme prejudice.

368 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:33:30pm

re: #346 albusteve

a pot full of bawney fwanks!.....mmmmm!

Frank and beans! Frank and beans!

369 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:33:55pm

re: #365 MandyManners

Let's check in with Skippy Squirrel, shall we?

What the hell was that? Did he say "pantaloons" to me?

I need a drink.

370 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:34:08pm

re: #347 Walter L. Newton

They are not afraid of us. People like that have one very big advantage over us, always have. That's a total disregard for human life. When a human being is valued as no better than another token, a check, a means of commerce, whether it be slavery or simply a walking bomb, they hold the upper hand.

While the west doesn't go to those extremes, in the past we have simply made the hard decisions, and that is, to kill the enemy, to hurt the enemy, to do permanent damage to the other side.

It's a fact of existence, no, we can't all get along, and there are times you have to hurt another human being.

We've gotten real close to loosing that knowledge, the ability to protect ourselves, the moral freedom to kill when necessary.

Well said.

In this case, Capt. Phillips is caught in a very unfortunate place and time. That is; larger issues loom over this pirate situation, and many eyes observing it consider our deference for the life of one man weakness.

371 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:34:09pm

re: #355 Cato the Elder

Here's one version of the story.

The MV Biscaglia is a chemical tanker managed by Ishima Pte. Ltd. of Singapore and held by Industrial Shipping Enterprises Management Company LLC of Stamford, Connecticut, USA.

It was a Liberian flagged ship owned by a company in Singapore that is a subsidiary of an American one.


"In addition to the three security guards who escaped by jumping into the sea, 25 Indian and two Bangladeshi are members of the crew."

Not quite the same thing here...

372 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:34:14pm

re: #350 albusteve

don't get the question...sorry

I took your question to ask if the image of this country was worth the sacrifice (I have serious problems with that term) of one man.

The short answer is yes.

373 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:34:37pm

re: #346 albusteve

a pot full of bawney fwanks!.....mmmmm!

Oh heck.

374 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:35:08pm

re: #363 jwb7605

What's with the Rambo analogy?

you don't see it?....all your flag waving bravado will not get this guy back safely...a lot of people here want to fuck up the Somalis in spite of the fact they have our guy and seem to think that some new found principle is more important than his life...really? you don't see it?

375 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:35:18pm

re: #360 Killian Bundy

All 19 of the top banks passed the "stress test" and Wells Fargo reported record earnings yesterday.

/just sayin'

I don't understand any of this. It all seems to be a set up to me. A few months ago, these banks couldn't print toilet paper and now they are making billions of NEW money.

Come on, no, that doesn't make sense, where is all the "profit" coming from, how suddenly are OTHER businesses doing so good so the bank can in turn do so good?

I've admitted here before that I am a financial idiot, but I'm not stupid.

This is a scam. If they are doing "ok" right now, it's because someone bunch of muckety-mucks just gave themselves some big bonus' or raises or made some nice pocket change, so they have to brag that things are rosey so we don't realize that they are stealing us blind.

376 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:35:27pm

re: #353 Mithrax

re: #368 MandyManners

GMTA

377 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:35:30pm

re: #335 eddiespaghetti

Keel haul all pirates, questions?

That's all well and good, but you have to catch 'em first.

378 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:35:32pm

Elect me as President, and I will put Iron Fist at the State Department.

379 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:35:57pm

re: #368 MandyManners

Frank and beans! Frank and beans!

I wanna talk to the Kid...get some tips here...put him on

380 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:36:19pm

re: #339 Dr. Shalit

While Paul and others pay lip service to the 'Austrian school' of economics, it seems to me they have more in common with mercantilism...[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

381 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:36:40pm

re: #364 Gus 802

FARC hostages. Finally released on a deal worth 20 million dollars including US monies payed for the release according to reports.


Released in 2008. Held for 5 years.

See FARC leaders were paid millions to free hostages

Betancourt?

She has BRASS CLIT.

382 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:36:49pm

re: #372 jwb7605

I took your question to ask if the image of this country was worth the sacrifice (I have serious problems with that term) of one man.

The short answer is yes.

my answer is definately no...

383 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:37:08pm

re: #381 MandyManners

Betancourt?

She has BRASS CLIT.

Is she a Klingon? //

384 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:37:10pm

re: #369 Bloodnok

What the hell was that? Did he say "pantaloons" to me?

I need a drink.

Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

385 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:37:32pm

re: #10 jwb7605

That seems to be a bipartisan thing, which affects wannabe hippies badly.

Great. There's one thing that Americans from all political stripes can come together on, and it's anti-vaccination craziness?

Figures.

386 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:37:38pm

re: #365 MandyManners

Wait tell September for talk like a pirate day, then we will get those Somali bastards!

387 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:37:42pm

re: #381 MandyManners

*spit take*

388 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:37:49pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

Elect me as President, and I will put Iron Fist at the State Department.

* * * *
You strike me as just another community organizer....///

389 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:37:52pm

o/t
Sorry, but I found this--and realized that the French have certainly changed. AND, the world is watching us--handle pirates. Read down and see what the papers in India are saying:

Sarkozy Engages Pirates - Obama Ducks Questions?
Tom Suhadolnik
While four pirates armed with AK47s bobbing in a lifeboat hold a US Navy destroyer at bay, a French commando team storms a sailboat held by pirates and rescues French citizens. The world truly has gone mad.

According to the BBC, President Sarkozy's office released a statement saying a French sailboat, seized Saturday off the coast of Somalia, was the target of a French commando raid Thursday. The French sail boat had four adults and one child on board. According to the release, two pirates and a hostage were killed in the operation and three others taken prisoner. This is the third time in recent memory French commandos have been used to free hostages held by pirates in the region.

Meanwhile in the USA, when asked about an American being held hostage by Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden, President Obama refused to answer any questions. Various reports say Obama has delegated the handling of this incident to high level administration officials and military commanders.

Unlike the pirates killed by French commandos, the pirates holding the American seem emboldened. There have been various reports today that allies of the pirates holding the American have requested and receiving backup from other pirates. Several large vessels seized with the last few weeks are heading to the site of a standoff.

The Times of India may have the most succinct description of the standoff between the US Navy and the pirates and its implications.

The Indian Ocean standoff between an $800 million United States Navy destroyer and four pirates bobbing in a lifeboat showed the limits of the world's most power military as it faces a booming pirate economy in a treacherous patch of international waters.

390 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:38:27pm

re: #379 albusteve

I wanna talk to the Kid...get some tips here...put him on

See my No. 373, please.

391 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:39:30pm

re: #374 albusteve

We have been putting up with this BS for years. Now, all of a sudden this one guy is important?

Deal with them.

We will be better off in the long run.

392 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:39:36pm

Well, I've expanded my idea on the ether. Put a sub under the life boat and extend a gas line up to the raft and release an ether gas. Then while they are all sleeping either take command of the raft or scoop them into an LST.

Crazy idea I know.

393 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:39:40pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

Elect me as President, and I will put Iron Fist at the State Department.

Put me in as SecDef and I'll rename the thing Department of War.

We fucked up when we dropped that title.

394 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:40:00pm

re: #351 eddiespaghetti

Never got an answer, guess the case is closed.

Yes, he answered me. He was referring to a perceived threat to the 1st Amendment if people could be banned from public assemblies.

395 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:40:30pm

re: #377 Catttt

They have, the problem is we turn em over to Kenya cause of lawyers and the law of the sea! We should kill them on site, that is the only way they will stop.

396 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:41:16pm

re: #375 Walter L. Newton

It's not a scam. They are not stealing you blind. You sound like you've flipped your lid.

Wells Fargo's earnings surprise was due to an increase in mortgage originations. At the same time, it's just one part of a complex situation, where banks will have to set aside more money to cover rising delinquencies.

397 jamgarr  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:41:24pm

Department of Don't Fuck With Us

398 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:41:27pm

re: #374 albusteve

you don't see it?....all your flag waving bravado will not get this guy back safely...a lot of people here want to fuck up the Somalis in spite of the fact they have our guy and seem to think that some new found principle is more important than his life...really? you don't see it?

I am not waving a fucking bravado flag.
I do not want the world watching this country, now that there are multiple U.S. Navy ships on site, agreeing to demands made by four pirates.

I also am not in favor of attacking Somalia.

No. I don't see it.
I fail to see how this is a "new found principle", as well.
Some guy named Jefferson originally stated "millions for defense, not a penny in tribute". I was young at the time.

399 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:41:56pm

re: #392 Gus 802

Well, I've expanded my idea on the ether. Put a sub under the life boat and extend a gas line up to the raft and release an ether gas. Then while they are all sleeping either take command of the raft or scoop them into an LST.

Crazy idea I know.

I LIKE it!

400 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:41:57pm

re: #393 MandyManners

Put me in as SecDef and I'll rename the thing Department of War.

We fucked up when we dropped that title.

I proposed a new branch of government.

Department of Gaze

401 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:30pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

I am confused, standard..

402 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:38pm

re: #399 katemaclaren

I LIKE it!

Thanks. I've always thought that certain non-lethal chemical agents are underutilized.

403 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:56pm

You can tell this isn't Scotland. The motto is: No one harms me with impunity.

404 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:43:00pm

re: #393 MandyManners

Put me in as SecDef and I'll rename the thing Department of War.

We fucked up when we dropped that title.

Department of War needs a theme song.

405 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:43:42pm

re: #375 Walter L. Newton

I don't understand any of this. It all seems to be a set up to me. A few months ago, these banks couldn't print toilet paper and now they are making billions of NEW money.

Come on, no, that doesn't make sense, where is all the "profit" coming from, how suddenly are OTHER businesses doing so good so the bank can in turn do so good?

I've admitted here before that I am a financial idiot, but I'm not stupid.

This is a scam. If they are doing "ok" right now, it's because someone bunch of muckety-mucks just gave themselves some big bonus' or raises or made some nice pocket change, so they have to brag that things are rosey so we don't realize that they are stealing us blind.

Well, Walter, if I were to give you upteen zillion dollars at no interest and let you loan it out and charge interest on it don't you think that you might somehow find a way to turn a profit?

I'll bet even a broke-down magical thespian might pull that off.

406 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:43:54pm

re: #371 Boxy_brown

Not quite the same thing here...

Umm-humm. For Indians and Bangladeshis we pay ransom, but for Captain Phillips we should use torpedos, is that what you're saying?

My point is, if the company felt the right thing to do was hold off and negotiate for the safe release of those people, why is everybody second-guessing the Navy and by extension the POTUS in this situation? It's a sign of weakness? Really?

It's a sign of responsibility and compassion.

They're on a lifeboat, for Pete's sake. Not going anywhere. Running out of water, shitting in their sandals. Time is on our and Captain Phillips's side.

And yet it's being compared to Iran and Carter? Puh-leeze.

Ceterum censeo piratas esse delendos. On that, Whiterasta and I can agree.

407 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:44:11pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

Great. There's one thing that Americans from all political stripes can come together on, and it's anti-vaccination craziness?

Figures.

That and Tea Parties.
I sometimes have trouble determining which political stripe a lunatic is wearing.

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:44:13pm

re: #67 whiterasta

Sheryl Crowe says you only need one sheet of toilet paper......

I'll accept my frugal great-aunts' suggestions about how much toilet paper to use, at least in their homes.

Sheryl Crowe, on the other hand...

409 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:44:27pm

re: #391 whiterasta

We have been putting up with this BS for years. Now, all of a sudden this one guy is important?

Deal with them.

We will be better off in the long run.

yes, he is that important...the feds fucked up a year ago by not taking this stuff seriousy...now people want to sacrifice this guy to boost our national ego and create some image that we don't fuck around...bullshit...get him back then deal with the issue the proper way...flag waving nationalism is not worth the guy's LIFE!...the feds blew it

410 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:45:09pm

re: #392 Gus 802

Well, I've expanded my idea on the ether. Put a sub under the life boat and extend a gas line up to the raft and release an ether gas. Then while they are all sleeping either take command of the raft or scoop them into an LST.

Crazy idea I know.

Just release SEALS with their tools.

411 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:45:11pm

Upstairs topic looks too good to pass up.

412 Killian Bundy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:45:19pm

re: #375 Walter L. Newton

Wells Fargo’s record profits push Dow higher

The banking industry received a shot in the arm Thursday morning when Wells Fargo & Co. said it expects record first-quarter earnings of $3 billion, defying estimates from analysts and sending its stock soaring. The bank earned $2 billion in first-quarter 2008.

Wells Fargo’s stock jumped $3.80, or 25.5 percent, to $18.69 in early Thursday trading. Broader markets also increased dramatically on the Wells Fargo report, with the Dow Jones industrial average going up strongly.

San Francisco-based Wells Fargo said it anticipates earnings after preferred dividends of about 55 cents per share and revenue to increase 16 percent to $20 billion. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters forecast profit of 23 cents per share on revenue of $19 billion.

Wells Fargo’s revenue was boosted by its mortgage banking operations, as the company received about $190 billion in mortgage applications, a 64 percent jump from the fourth quarter. Roughly $83 billion of that volume came in March, when announced governmental programming sent interest rates tumbling. The majority of that was refinance applications with roughly 25 percent coming from home purchases.

/reality is what it is

413 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:45:26pm

re: #404 jcm

Department of War needs a theme song.

I'm sure this won't work, but still.....

414 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:45:33pm

re: #367 whiterasta

Thanks. I rest my case.

These barbarians should be terminated with extreme prejudice.

Before or after we wear them down to the point where they hand over Captain Phillips?

And why didn't Bush do anything about it?

415 Killer Tomato  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:46:04pm

re: #398 jwb7605
CHARLES COTESWORTH PINCKNEY, American minister to France, letter to Timothy Pickering, October 27, 1797, relating the American response to a French request for a tribute or bribe.—State Papers and Publick Documents of the United States, 3d ed., vol. 3, p. 492 (1819). The French had seized several American ships.
The wording of this quotation usually reads: “… not a penny.” For further discussion of the wording used by Pinckney and of the quotation frequently but mistakenly attributed to Pinckney—“Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute,” actually said by Robert Goodloe Harper—see The Home Book of Quotations, ed. Burton Stevenson, 10th ed., p. 63 (1967) and “Notes and Queries,” South Carolina Historical and Genealogical Magazine, vol. 1, pp. 100–103, 178–79 (1901).

Bartleby

416 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:14pm

re: #410 Kosh's Shadow

Just release SEALS with their tools.

I'M SHOUTING, I KNOW. It's to keep from screaming: WHY DON'T THEY DO THAT? RELEASE THE SEALS WITH THEIR TOOLS FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING HOLY--this man may DIE because of all this dithering. Does anyone think maybe we are just trying to starve them or make them cry for water? What's the temp over there?

417 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:47pm

re: #116 Bloodnok

It looks like the Tea Partiers in Boston are going to cover themselves in glory. I mean what can go wrong with this imagery?

"Then tonight we're gonna party like it's 1699..."

418 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:54pm

I've found a sheet of paper with a code of numbers hidden in The Kid's room. Busy for a while.

419 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:14pm

re: #409 albusteve

Dammit, I just hate when you are right......

420 whiterasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:49pm

re: #414 Cato the Elder

After.....

421 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:56pm

re: #398 jwb7605

I am not waving a fucking bravado flag.
I do not want the world watching this country, now that there are multiple U.S. Navy ships on site, agreeing to demands made by four pirates.

I also am not in favor of attacking Somalia.

No. I don't see it.
I fail to see how this is a "new found principle", as well.
Some guy named Jefferson originally stated "millions for defense, not a penny in tribute". I was young at the time.

Jefferson does not matter any more...we need to think for ourselves...I want this guy back in the worst way and millions of dollars are meaningless...beyond that I am highly in favor of attacking Somalia as you put it...who gives a shit about the money?, why?...get him back and bill the pirates for it

422 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:49:48pm

re: #418 MandyManners

I've found a sheet of paper with a code of numbers hidden in The Kid's room. Busy for a while.

I didn't phrase that correctly. I've found what appears to be a code written on a

Oh, fuck it.

bbwic

423 Emperor Norton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:50:00pm

Wells Fargo is doing better only because it received a $25 billion gift from TARP. As for 19 big banks passing the stress test, the Fed has ordered all of them not to reveal the results.

424 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:50:02pm

re: #418 MandyManners

I've found a sheet of paper with a code of numbers hidden in The Kid's room. Busy for a while.

Send it to GMSC, he's a numbers whiz.

425 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:50:58pm

re: #419 whiterasta

Dammit, I just hate when you are right......

don't be...you are thinking the same thing in some way bro

426 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:51:27pm

re: #386 eddiespaghetti

Wait tell September for talk like a pirate day, then we will get those Somali bastards!

Dont forget to use proper pirate grammar.

427 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:52:35pm

Here's a Billy Collins poem to think about:
NOSTALGIA
Remember the 1340's? We were doing a dance called the Catapult.
You always wore brown, the color craze of the decade,
and I was draped in one of those capes that were popular,
the ones with unicorns and pomegranates in needlework.
Everyone would pause for beer and onions in the afternoon,
and at night we would play a game called "Find the Cow."
Everything was hand-lettered then, not like today.
Where has the summer of 1572 gone? Brocade sonnet
marathons were the rage. We used to dress up in the flags
of rival baronies and conquer one another in cold rooms of stone.
Out on the dance floor we were all doing the Struggle
while your sister practiced the Daphne all alone in her room.
We borrowed the jargon of farriers for our slang.
These days language seems transparent a badly broken code.
The 1790's will never come again. Childhood was big.
People would take walks to the very tops of hills
and write down what they saw in their journals without speaking.
Our collars were high and our hats were extremely soft.
We would surprise each other with alphabets made of twigs.
It was a wonderful time to be alive, or even dead.
I am very fond of the period between 1815 and 1821.
Europe trembled while we sat still for our portraits.
And I would love to return to 1901 if only for a moment,
time enough to wind up a music box and do a few dance steps,
or shoot me back to 1922 or 1941, or at least let me
recapture the serenity of last month when we picked
berries and glided through afternoons in a canoe.
Even this morning would be an improvement over the present.
I was in the garden then, surrounded by the hum of bees
and the Latin names of flowers, watching the early light
flash off the slanted windows of the greenhouse
and silver the limbs on the rows of dark hemlocks.
As usual, I was thinking about the moments of the past,
letting my memory rush over them like water
rushing over the stones on the bottom of a stream.
I was even thinking a little about the future, that place
where people are doing a dance we cannot imagine,
a dance whose name we can only guess.

428 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:53:05pm

re: #391 whiterasta

We have been putting up with this BS for years. Now, all of a sudden this one guy is important?

Deal with them.

We will be better off in the long run.

That is my feeling too. The issue is not America's image or whatever price they think the captain's life is worth. They need to be dealt with, not simply bought off again and again. I really hope the captain comes home safe and sound, but not at the price of enabling and encouraging the pirates to continue. There are naval vessels patrolling the area—can't they at least form convoys?

BTW, I am descended from French pirates on my father's side.

429 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:54:13pm

re: #414 Cato the Elder

Before or after we wear them down to the point where they hand over Captain Phillips?

And why didn't Bush do anything about it?

Yeah? This happened only a couple of months after his watch--Why didn't W do something to prevent this!
/

430 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:54:49pm

re: #428 David IV of Georgia

That is my feeling too. The issue is not America's image or whatever price they think the captain's life is worth. They need to be dealt with, not simply bought off again and again. I really hope the captain comes home safe and sound, but not at the price of enabling and encouraging the pirates to continue. There are naval vessels patrolling the area—can't they at least form convoys?

BTW, I am descended from French pirates on my father's side.

get our guy back and reduce the pirates accordingly...his life is worth thousands of theirs and more...he's a friggin AMERICAN

431 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:55:22pm

re: #428 David IV of Georgia

That is my feeling too. The issue is not America's image or whatever price they think the captain's life is worth. They need to be dealt with, not simply bought off again and again. I really hope the captain comes home safe and sound, but not at the price of enabling and encouraging the pirates to continue. There are naval vessels patrolling the area—can't they at least form convoys?

BTW, I am descended from French pirates on my father's side.

Well, the FRENCH non-pirates (commandos) have just rescued some pirate-held hostages today. See my comment upthread.

432 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:15pm

re: #328 MandyManners

It was in China.

That was a vastly different situation because we were dealing with a nation-state that plays a significant role in international affairs and actually does care about its image.

Mandy -

It was ALSO to one degree or another a Spy Plane. Former President Bush &/or his administration did NOT handle it really well. Let's see how President Obama handles "The Pirates" citizens of a "state, non-nation."

-S-

433 Bloodnok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:32pm

re: #430 albusteve

get our guy back and reduce the pirates accordingly...his life is worth thousands of theirs and more...he's a friggin AMERICAN

Exactly. No solution we take should jeopardize that man's life. No matter how angry we are at the kidnappers and how serious a point we need to make. There is time for all of that.

434 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:00:11pm

re: #429 katemaclaren

Yeah? This happened only a couple of months after his watch--Why didn't W do something to prevent this!
/

Talking about all the piracy that went on during his tenure. Of course.

In 75, Julius Caesar was captured by Cilician pirates, who infested the Mediterranean sea. The Romans had never sent a navy against them, because the pirates offered the Roman senators slaves, which they needed for their plantations in Italy. As a consequence, piracy was common.

In chapter 2 of his Life of Julius Caesar, the Greek author Plutarch of Chaeronea (46-c.120) describes what happened when Caesar encountered the pirates. The translation below was made by Robin Seager.

First, when the pirates demanded a ransom of twenty talents, Caesar burst out laughing. They did not know, he said, who it was that they had captured, and he volunteered to pay fifty. Then, when he had sent his followers to the various cities in order to raise the money and was left with one friend and two servants among these Cilicians, about the most bloodthirsty people in the world, he treated them so highhandedly that, whenever he wanted to sleep, he would send to them and tell them to stop talking.

For thirty-eight days, with the greatest unconcern, he joined in all their games and exercises, just as if he was their leader instead of their prisoner. He also wrote poems and speeches which he read aloud to them, and if they failed to admire his work, he would call them to their faces illiterate savages, and would often laughingly threaten to have them all hanged. They were much taken with this and attributed his freedom of speech to a kind of simplicity in his character or boyish playfulness.

However, the ransom arrived from Miletus and, as soon as he had paid it and been set free, he immediately manned some ships and set sail from the harbor of Miletus against the pirates. He found them still there, lying at anchor off the island, and he captured nearly all of them. He took their property as spoils of war and put the men themselves into the prison at Pergamon. He then went in person to [Marcus] Junius, the governorof Asia, thinking it proper that he, as praetor in charge of the province, should see to the punishment of the prisoners. Junius, however, cast longing eyes at the money, which came to a considerable sum, and kept saying that he needed time to look into the case.

Caesar paid no further attention to him. He went to Pergamon, took the pirates out of prison and crucified the lot of them, just as he had often told them he would do when he was on the island and they imagined that he was joking.

435 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:25pm

re: #433 Bloodnok

Exactly. No solution we take should jeopardize that man's life. No matter how angry we are at the kidnappers and how serious a point we need to make. There is time for all of that.

Right-o. See my #434.

436 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:02:25pm

re: #283 jwb7605

"sacrifice" and losing a man in a rescue attempt are two different things.
Standing down is unacceptable.
I say that as a former military person with a son in the military, and have heard John McCain echo similar sentiments.
If it were my own son, I would not want the country to back off on his behalf. Choices have been made, and sometimes there are unwanted consequences.

jwb7605 -

Have "your SIX" on this one. Real shame that ROE's were not flexible enough when the Captain jumped overboard, before recapture. Could have made Pres. Obama a hero. Maybe he is too afraid of offending certain people. Too Bad, So Sad.

-S-

437 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:05:26pm

re: #430 albusteve

get our guy back and reduce the pirates accordingly...his life is worth thousands of theirs and more...he's a friggin AMERICAN

I'm not saying we should not wait nor try to save the captain's life. We can wait weeks or months if need be. We can drop them food. We can give them another boat if the lifeboat becomes unseaworthy. But we should not let them go away thinking piracy is worth the risk.

438 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:05:53pm

re: #431 katemaclaren

Well, the FRENCH non-pirates (commandos) have just rescued some pirate-held hostages today. See my comment upthread.

Lost a couple of the hostages in the process, too. Good outcome?

As I said, the pirates and Captain Phillips are in a bloody lifeboat. They are surrounded. Do you want to gun them down and risk the Captain's life to prove a point?

439 popskull  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:12pm

Damn! You guys are all over the pirates now. Well, I was gonna say:

Some of you are wishing that the grassroots movement around the "Tea Parties" would not be so embarrassing.

I suspect the primary reason is that the movement is negative in attitude — these folks know what they don't like; they don't seem to know, however, what they do want.

It's one thing to say that the bailouts are bringing socialism, and that's bad, or that raising taxes on the top bracket by three points is class warfare, and that's evil. What they're not saying is: "here is our alternate, superior plan."

I can't see that they have one.

Last year you witnessed the success of a grassroots movement which elected our new President. The movement drew its fuel partially from a backlash against Bush's value system, but more importantly, it fed on a positive movement for liberal values.

We saw something similar in 1979-80, with the Reagan Revolution.

When sane, moderate conservatives put forth a positive program of fiscal responsibility, separation of church and state, and firm but prudent foreign policy, the conservatives will return to influence and power.

440 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:23pm

re: #22 theuglydougling

Just great. The media will use this to beat down the movement as a whole. Too bad they couldn't be bothered to point out all the Jew-hate in the so-called peace protests. Just more of the same double standard: ten so-called peace activists (who actually are pro-Hamas) show up for a rally and it's all over the news. But a thousand anti-tax protesters won't make the news unless pictures can be taken of a few kooks.

Welcome to the world of the San Francisco Bay Area. Local media coverage by habit, ignores the pro-Israel (the real peace crowd) side and focuses entirely on the pro-Intifada, pro-Hamas "peace protesters." Our spokespeople have appeared in numerous interviews that are routinely eliminated in favor of camera shots of an unruly crowd screaming for the 'right of return'.

It's sad that the tea party protest has been hijacked. Once again, there is a need to form a formal nonprofit group, with a steering commmittee and membership dues, etc. Something to keep the kook out while promoting reason and sanity.

441 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:58pm

re: #438 Cato the Elder

Lost a couple of the hostages in the process, too. Good outcome?

As I said, the pirates and Captain Phillips are in a bloody lifeboat. They are surrounded. Do you want to gun them down and risk the Captain's life to prove a point?

No, I don't. I keep remembering the Star Trek film where Spock doesn't understand why the entire crew would risk their lives to save the one person--him. Then the tables are turned--and he gets it. I'm in the Saving Private Ryan category. I just feel frustrated, frightened for him and very sad. VERY sad. I have a lump in my throat as I am typing and tears are filling my eyes. ...and I'm not kidding. AND, I loved the info about Caesar . God. I wish I had read things like that before. Now, I'll have to read Plutarch. When I began reading Patrick O'Brian's books, never would I have thought I'd find myself reading all the books I could find on the Napoleanic wars! Thanks!

442 wiffersnapper  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:28:20pm

Ron Lawl

443 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:43:31pm

re: #441 katemaclaren

My pleasure!

And hang on - I have a feeling this is going to work out right.

Then we put Caesar's plan into effect...

444 Arbalest  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:43:58pm

More ointment. Preparation G didn't work.

445 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:53:02pm

re: #434 Cato the Elder

This story reminded me of a story in Histories of the Fathers (written in about the year 420), by Palladius, Bishop of Heleopolis, Egypt:

Melania the Great was related to some of the most powerful and influential people in Rome. After becoming widowed, she traveled to Egypt with a few servants and didn't bother or fuss about the pomp and luxury people of her stature usually insist upon. Some local governor found out that she seemed to have a great deal of money and had her arrested, thinking to enrich himself by bribes, ransom or theft. In prison, she sent him a note: I am the daughter of such and such a man ... . Do not treat lightly my poor garb and estate, for I have the power to exalt myself if it pleaseth me to do so, and thou hast no authority either to hamper me in this fashion or to carry off my property. Now in order that thou mayest not dare to do anything in ignorance, and so fall under condemnation, behold, I send thee this message; for it is toward senseless and foolish men we should act in a masterful manner, and with pride, even as our noble rank enableth us to do, and should treat them as fools and men of no understanding. The governor apologized to Melania, freed her, and begged her forgiveness. He then gave orders that she should be allowed to go wherever she wished without hindrance.

446 Syrah  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 10:24:41pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

Elect me as President, and I will put Iron Fist at the State Department.

I am glad that you have finally changed your mind.

Do you need a Washington State Campaign Manager?

447 Wendya  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:59:25pm

re: #46 The Other Les

As a result Rand called herself and those who followed her Radicals for Capitalism. Perhaps we should think of ourselves as Radicals for Liberty and Sanity.
.

I kind of like the capitalism part.

I was doing some research on an ancestor and ran across a listing from a Sacramento city directory in the late 1800s. The directory listed the name, address and occupation of the citizens. My G-G-Grandfather listed his occupation as "capitalist".

448 SixDegrees  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 12:44:17am

re: #18 jdog29

If this Tea Party movement, whatever it is, has a real groundswell of support from Independents, Dem's and Repub's, one meeting taken over by anyone of any stripe won't matter.

If there is to be a legitimate take over of the senate or house in 2010 the message will have to be as focused and as organized as the "Contract with America." Any kind of Socialist Lite products or candidates won't generate enough energy to move any numbers.

But even a tiny number of Flat Earthers, Creationists and Theocrats will be enough to drive people away from the GOP, as it has in the last couple elections.

The Tea Parties have turned into a freak show. I strongly suspect they're being funded by George Soros.

449 SixDegrees  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 12:48:33am

re: #438 Cato the Elder

Lost a couple of the hostages in the process, too. Good outcome?

As I said, the pirates and Captain Phillips are in a bloody lifeboat. They are surrounded. Do you want to gun them down and risk the Captain's life to prove a point?

Exactly right. They're not going anywhere, and neither are we. Unless the situation escalates to the point where the captain is in imminent danger of harm, there's no point at all in excess bravado. There's plenty of time for retribution later.

450 SixDegrees  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 12:49:40am

re: #439 popskull

Damn! You guys are all over the pirates now. Well, I was gonna say:

Some of you are wishing that the grassroots movement around the "Tea Parties" would not be so embarrassing.

I suspect the primary reason is that the movement is negative in attitude — these folks know what they don't like; they don't seem to know, however, what they do want.

It's one thing to say that the bailouts are bringing socialism, and that's bad, or that raising taxes on the top bracket by three points is class warfare, and that's evil. What they're not saying is: "here is our alternate, superior plan."

I can't see that they have one.

Last year you witnessed the success of a grassroots movement which elected our new President. The movement drew its fuel partially from a backlash against Bush's value system, but more importantly, it fed on a positive movement for liberal values.

We saw something similar in 1979-80, with the Reagan Revolution.

When sane, moderate conservatives put forth a positive program of fiscal responsibility, separation of church and state, and firm but prudent foreign policy, the conservatives will return to influence and power.

Yup. Totally agree.

451 SixDegrees  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 1:11:52am

re: #389 katemaclaren

o/t
Sorry, but I found this--and realized that the French have certainly changed. AND, the world is watching us--handle pirates. Read down and see what the papers in India are saying:

Sarkozy Engages Pirates - Obama Ducks Questions?
Tom Suhadolnik
While four pirates armed with AK47s bobbing in a lifeboat hold a US Navy destroyer at bay, a French commando team storms a sailboat held by pirates and rescues French citizens. The world truly has gone mad.

According to the BBC, President Sarkozy's office released a statement saying a French sailboat, seized Saturday off the coast of Somalia, was the target of a French commando raid Thursday. The French sail boat had four adults and one child on board. According to the release, two pirates and a hostage were killed in the operation and three others taken prisoner. This is the third time in recent memory French commandos have been used to free hostages held by pirates in the region.

Meanwhile in the USA, when asked about an American being held hostage by Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden, President Obama refused to answer any questions. Various reports say Obama has delegated the handling of this incident to high level administration officials and military commanders.

Unlike the pirates killed by French commandos, the pirates holding the American seem emboldened. There have been various reports today that allies of the pirates holding the American have requested and receiving backup from other pirates. Several large vessels seized with the last few weeks are heading to the site of a standoff.

The Times of India may have the most succinct description of the standoff between the US Navy and the pirates and its implications.

The Indian Ocean standoff between an $800 million United States Navy destroyer and four pirates bobbing in a lifeboat showed the limits of the world's most power military as it faces a booming pirate economy in a treacherous patch of international waters.

One of the hostages was killed in the French attack. Not exactly a good outcome.

Another point: this doesn't seem to work as a deterrent. This was the third such incident involving the French recently, so whatever message they're trying to send isn't getting across.

Finally: blowing holes in the ocean underneath the pirates - and their hostages - doesn't solve anything. It's the same failed approach used in the War on Drugs - attack the dealers, while leaving the organizations that gather and distribute the drugs and it's leaders intact.

The solution to the problem lies on the Somali coast, not in a tiny lifeboat hundreds of miles offshore. And at the moment, there is increasing chatter indicating that a rather large Naval force is deploying to that area. So perhaps this problem will be addressed correctly, rather than with the "Ya! Let's blow sumthin' up now, dammit!" approach.

452 MJBrutus  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 6:23:41pm

re: #112 Charles

Sean Hannity is ranting about America being a "Christian nation" now.

Egads, I heard home on XM on the ride home blathering the same crap. Reading selected quotes from Adams, etc. Refusing to acknowledge what Adams and our other founders had to say about involvement of religion in government. What really gets me about his and the other rants is the total ignorance of the fact that Christian doctrine is what gave us the government we rebelled from and our founders vowed to prevent from happening to Americans again!


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