Religious Extremists Sharing Tips

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Sinn Fein and Hamas: together at last.

And the IRA head is now reporting to Barack Obama. What could go wrong?

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – The leader of Irish Republican Army-linked Sinn Fein party met with the head of the internationally shunned Hamas government during a two-day visit to Gaza and said he plans to brief President Obama’s special Mideast envoy about his contacts.

Gerry Adams, a key player in Northern Ireland’s peace process, met with Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh late Wednesday and planned more talks with officials of the Islamic militant group Thursday.

Haniyeh’s meeting with Adams, at an undisclosed location in Gaza City, was not announced ahead of time.

“We want to help. We support the Palestinian people,” Adams said.

Adams told The Associated Press in an interview Wednesday he said he met Obama’s special Mideast envoy George Mitchell in Washington last month and told him of his plan to visit Gaza. He said he plans to “brief the Irish government, friends in the U.S., others I deal with internationally, and that would include Sen. Mitchell.”

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361 comments
1 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:38:35pm

Gerry Adams- I never trusted that asshole.

2 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:39:53pm

LOL, I thought things couldn't get any stranger.

3 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:39:59pm

And the Irish Republican Army is religiously Catholic? Yes, no?

4 jcm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:40:41pm

Well fuck, let's just invite the scurvy pirates too!

5 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:41:00pm

Returning to the Troubles.

Sad.

6 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:41:24pm

How long must we sing this song?

7 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:08pm

Why would he want to brief President Obama’s special Mideast envoy about his contacts?

Oh, Yeah..“We want to help. We support the Palestinian people.”

F*cker.

8 Mithrax  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:11pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

How long must we sing this song?

Upding for the song reference.

9 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:20pm

Terrorists helping terrorists...

10 SteveC  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:25pm

Oh, this is going to bring The Troubles to a whole new level.

11 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:42:56pm

re: #8 Mithrax

I cant believe the news today
Oh, I cant close my eyes and make it go away
How long...
How long must we sing this song?
How long? how long...

cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...

Broken bottles under childrens feet
Bodies strewn across the dead end street
But I wont heed the battle call
It puts my back up
Puts my back up against the wall

Sunday, bloody sunday
Sunday, bloody sunday
Sunday, bloody sunday (sunday bloody sunday...)
(allright lets go!)

And the battles just begun
Theres many lost, but tell me who has won
The trench is dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters torn apart

Sunday, bloody sunday
Sunday, bloody sunday

How long...
How long must we sing this song?
How long? how long...

cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...
Tonight...

Sunday, bloody sunday (tonight)
Tonight
Sunday, bloody sunday (tonight)
(come get some!)

Wipe the tears from your eyes
Wipe your tears away
Wipe your tears away
I wipe your tears away
(sunday, bloody sunday)
I wipe your blood shot eyes
(sunday, bloody sunday)

Sunday, bloody sunday (sunday, bloody sunday)
Sunday, bloody sunday (sunday, bloody sunday)
(here I come!)

And its true we are immune
When fact is fiction and tv reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die

The real battle yet begun (sunday, bloody sunday)
To claim the victory jesus won (sunday, bloody sunday)
On...

Sunday bloody sunday
Sunday bloody sunday...

12 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:43:42pm

And people were wondering where CBBHO sided on the issue.

13 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:43:55pm

Nuts. Absolutely stark raving nuts.

14 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:44:27pm

Obama also signed off on letting the Palestinian "Liberation" Organization keep an office in Washington DC today. (Drudge had link today)

Palestinian Queen Rania of Jordan said Obama can give them a state, in an interview April 8 issue of HOLA magazine.

15 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:44:50pm

re: #11 Sharmuta

I cant believe the news today
Oh, I cant close my eyes and make it go away
How long...
How long must we sing this song?
How long? how long...

cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...

Broken bottles under childrens feet
Bodies strewn across the dead end street
But I wont heed the battle call
It puts my back up
Puts my back up against the wall

Sunday, bloody sunday
Sunday, bloody sunday
Sunday, bloody sunday (sunday bloody sunday...)
(allright lets go!)

And the battles just begun
Theres many lost, but tell me who has won
The trench is dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters torn apart

Sunday, bloody sunday
Sunday, bloody sunday

How long...
How long must we sing this song?
How long? how long...

cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...
Tonight...

Sunday, bloody sunday (tonight)
Tonight
Sunday, bloody sunday (tonight)
(come get some!)

Wipe the tears from your eyes
Wipe your tears away
Wipe your tears away
I wipe your tears away
(sunday, bloody sunday)
I wipe your blood shot eyes
(sunday, bloody sunday)

Sunday, bloody sunday (sunday, bloody sunday)
Sunday, bloody sunday (sunday, bloody sunday)
(here I come!)

And its true we are immune
When fact is fiction and tv reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die

The real battle yet begun (sunday, bloody sunday)
To claim the victory jesus won (sunday, bloody sunday)
On...

Sunday bloody sunday
Sunday bloody sunday...

I still don't know how people get words up so fast, but I like U2. Upding.

16 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:45:15pm
17 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:46:00pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

How long must we sing this song?

As long as humanity exists that song will be sung. I'll let Billy Joel sing it for us:

Youtube Video
18 Zimriel  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:46:05pm

re: #3 Walter L. Newton

And the Irish Republican Army is religiously Catholic? Yes, no?

No. They're "Catholic" like the Croat Ustasche was "Catholic". Sinn Fein and the IRA are just plain ethnic fascists.

19 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:46:05pm

re: #9 lawhawk

Terrorists helping terrorists...

* * * *
Sinn Fein also helped Basque terrorist ETA, which I wouldn't be surprised aids Al Qaeda in Spain. Fraternal thuggish organizations all.

20 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:46:09pm

re: #14 alegrias

Obama also signed off on letting the Palestinian "Liberation" Organization keep an office in Washington DC today. (Drudge had link today)

Palestinian Queen Rania of Jordan said Obama can give them a state, in an interview April 8 issue of HOLA magazine.

I thought HOLA was Spanish? :)

21 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:46:21pm

I am afraid my real opinion on mr. adams is delete worthy. The world will be a slightly better place when he is gone. That's about as far as I think I can go.

22 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:00pm

re: #3 Walter L. Newton

And the Irish Republican Army is religiously Catholic? Yes, no?

Er, I asked a this question, doesn't anyone know?

23 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:21pm

re: #16 Iron Fist

So the Irish Republican Army has decided that anti-Semitism becomes them? Lovely. Just when I thought things couldn't get worse....

Damn. And all my good drugs are gone.

Gives one mixed emotions about stopping "mules" from Mexico, doesn't it?

24 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:37pm

I thought the IRA was dead? Clinton didn't heal our wounds on that one? WTF?

25 pink freud  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:46pm

France has balls, America has none.

Sinn Fein in bed with Hamas, reporting to 0bama.

/and in other news, the sun will rise in the west in the morning.

Bizarro World.

26 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:52pm

re: #18 Zimriel

No. They're "Catholic" like the Croat Ustasche was "Catholic". Sinn Fein and the IRA are just plain ethnic fascists.

They identify themselves as Catholics, yes, no, I don't want opinion, I was looking for an answer. Nevermind.

27 SteveC  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:47:59pm

re: #16 Iron Fist

So the Irish Republican Army has decided that anti-Semitism becomes them? Lovely. Just when I thought things couldn't get worse....

Damn. And all my good drugs are gone.

Maybe we need to think about suspending the Iron Fist Rule. These days you NEED to be drunk to post!

28 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:05pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

As long as humanity exists that song will be sung.

You have a constrained vision! I agree, but it's still maddening to see a relapse in one of my ancestral lands. In fact, my Irish ancestors fled Northern Ireland. This is very sad for me.

29 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:13pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton

Er, I asked a this question, doesn't anyone know?

I think IRA is (are?) Catholic.

30 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:30pm

They should also share tips on how to medicate themselves.

31 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:38pm

re: #24 eddiespaghetti

I thought the IRA was dead? Clinton didn't heal our wounds on that one? WTF?

Nope- like hamas, they were allowed to continue their so-called "political" wing.

32 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:48:51pm

re: #19 alegrias

* * * *
Sinn Fein also helped Basque terrorist ETA, which I wouldn't be surprised aids Al Qaeda in Spain. Fraternal thuggish organizations all.

Yep, all the Marxist tools screaming that the CIA founded Al-Quaeda should take a long look at most of the planet's assorted domestic terrorists spoilt brats with bombs. From Colombia to Spain to Germany through Palestine and Japan and Ireland, the heads all lead to the body - the KGB.

33 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:49:03pm

re: #3 Walter L. Newton

And the Irish Republican Army is religiously Catholic? Yes, no?

By heritage, and some by practice. Ideologically, they've always had a strong Leninist flavor.

34 pink freud  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:49:37pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton

Er, I asked a this question, doesn't anyone know?

Some are protestant; majority Catholic though, AFAIK.

35 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:49:37pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton

Er, I asked a this question, doesn't anyone know?

Yes. They are "religiously Catholic" in the same sense as Al-Queda is "religiously" Islamic.

36 Irish Rose  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:49:41pm

I saw evidence of pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas sympathy when I travelled western (rural) Ireland a few years ago.

Disconcerting, to say the least

37 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:49:42pm
Adams told The Associated Press in an interview Wednesday he said he met Obama’s special Mideast envoy George Mitchell in Washington last month and told him of his plan to visit Gaza. He said he plans to “brief the Irish government, friends in the U.S., others I deal with internationally, and that would include Sen. Mitchell.”

A twofer! We can stab our British allies in the back and our Israeli allies in the front at the same time!

38 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:50:02pm

And now we add to the long list of people who embarass the hell out of me just by sharing Irish heritage in public...

39 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:50:16pm

re: #16 Iron Fist

So the Irish Republican Army has decided that anti-Semitism becomes them? Lovely. Just when I thought things couldn't get worse....

Damn. And all my good drugs are gone.

And some of our own Congresspeople have at times sided with the IRA. Peter King of New York was once very supportive of the IRA, as was John Lennon.

40 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:50:59pm

re: #29 Unakite

I think IRA is (are?) Catholic.

I got it from Google, they have both Catholic and Protestant members. So, in general they are Christians.

Well, I'll say it again. If you have EVER questioned how in the world could what have happened in the 1930's had happened... then please, please...

Pay attention this time, because you are going to get the answer again, close up and personal, just for you.

Irish Christians and Hamas, yep, nationalism on the march.

41 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:51:30pm
42 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:51:31pm

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

And some of our own Congresspeople have at times sided with the IRA. Peter King of New York was once very supportive of the IRA, as was John Lennon.

Believe me when I say that support did not go down well in the UK. The nuttier folks even saw it as offical US government support for the IRA.

43 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:51:57pm

re: #35 jwb7605

Yes. They are "religiously Catholic" in the same sense as Al-Queda is "religiously" Islamic.

No, I found it on google, they are Christians as in the same sense as Christians.

44 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:52:13pm

re: #31 Sharmuta

Aka Sin fein?

45 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:52:26pm

re: #20 Unakite

I thought HOLA was Spanish? :)

* * * *
Yes, I read it in the Spanish publication. Palestinian Queen Rania is on the cover in a ruffly dress and they say she is one of the most "charismatic" women in the world.

I'll translate one paragraph: "Obama's heart is in the right place, he understands he has to end the suffering in the Middle East and that both palestinians and Israelis need to live in peace and liberty." bla bla bla

46 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:52:38pm
Youtube Video
47 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:52:44pm

IRA not so inactive after all.

48 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:52:44pm

re: #28 Sharmuta

You have a constrained vision! I agree, but it's still maddening to see a relapse in one of my ancestral lands. In fact, my Irish ancestors fled Northern Ireland. This is very sad for me.

It's a sad day for all those who hate terror and murder.

49 Mad Mullah  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:52:52pm

Thus, Arthur Griffith, the founder of Sinn Fein, was blatantly anti-semitic; Sean Russell, chief of staff of the IRA during the Second World War, died on a German submarine and was buried at sea wrapped in the swastika; Eamon de Valera, neutralist head of government during the Second World War, objected when the Irish Independent printed pictures of Belsen after the liberation of the camps; and Sean South, a republican hero of the 1956 border campaign, was also noted for his anti-Jewish sentiments.
Significantly, the Republic of Ireland was the last country in the EU to allow Israel to establish an embassy on its soil.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

50 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:53:23pm

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

I got it from Google, they have both Catholic and Protestant members. So, in general they are Christians.

Well, I'll say it again. If you have EVER questioned how in the world could what have happened in the 1930's had happened... then please, please...

Pay attention this time, because you are going to get the answer again, close up and personal, just for you.

Irish Christians and Hamas, yep, nationalism on the march.

Interesting, thanks. Being American-Irish (yay, I hyphenated), and knowing the angst between Catholics and protestants in Ireland, I never knew the IRA was composed of both.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:53:26pm

re: #35 jwb7605

Yes. They are "religiously Catholic" in the same sense as Al-Queda is "religiously" Islamic.

I don't think the analogy works. Al Qaeda's agenda is, among other things, Islamic, the IRA doesn't really give a damn if anyone else is Catholic.

52 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:53:46pm

More from Gerry Adams:

Sinn Féin leader: Gaza open-air prison

Gerry Adams, leader of the Irish left-wing Sinn Féin, met with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Gaza Wednesday night, British news outlets reported Thursday.

"This is an open-air prison," the UK's Guardian quoted the Sinn Féin president as saying.

53 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:53:59pm

re: #41 Iron Fist

Now that there's FUNNY!
/Larry the Cable Guy

54 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:54:01pm

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

The IRA are largely catholic, they are fighting the largely protestant British in northern Ireland to unify Ireland under one state.

55 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #48 Dark_Falcon

It's a sad day for all those who hate terror and murder.

Yes.... More Irish children are going to die because of this fucker and his minions.

56 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:54:45pm

re: #41 Iron Fist

I've thought about getting in a methadone program but you've got to shoot smack bnefore they'll give you the methadone. What's the sense in that? If I had smack, I wouldn't need the methadone...

[Joke, people, joke. No live smack was hurt in the production of this advertisement]

Damn, I thought it was funny even without the qualifier! :)

57 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:54:46pm

IRA 1996 Manchester bombing. 200 injured.

58 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:55:00pm

re: #29 Unakite

Mostly Catholic, but some of the other:

59 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:55:17pm

re: #29 Unakite

I think IRA is (are?) Catholic.

Sinn Fein is most definitely Catholic. As to whether they are good Catholoics, that's not for me to say.

60 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:55:31pm

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

And some of our own Congresspeople have at times sided with the IRA. Peter King of New York was once very supportive of the IRA, as was John Lennon.

* * * *
The Kennedys have never disavowed them, nor stopped fundraising for them, I've read somewhere. Fact check me please.

61 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:55:44pm

The one thing I hated about the Rattle and Hum album was it didn't include this incredible version of Sunday Bloody Sunday. Haunting opening

Youtube Video
62 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:55:52pm

JACK RYAN LIVES!

63 gmsc  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:56:07pm

re: #38 SanFranciscoZionist

And now we add to the long list of people who embarass the hell out of me just by sharing Irish heritage in public...

I had a friend who had a strong Irish heritage, but he had times, like you, where he wanted to disavow his Irish heritage, and once mentioned he wished there were something symbolic he could do to show it, like wearing a black band around his arm or something.

I told him, "If you're trying to disassociate yourself from unethical Irishmen, I'm not sure a black velvet band is the best approach . . ."
;)

64 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:56:16pm

re: #54 Boxy_brown

The IRA are largely catholic, they are fighting the largely protestant British in northern Ireland to unify Ireland under one state.

I got the info I needed. They are White Christians teaming up with Hamas, that tells me everything.

65 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:56:36pm

Chronology of Provisional IRA actions

66 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:56:46pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the analogy works. Al Qaeda's agenda is, among other things, Islamic, the IRA doesn't really give a damn if anyone else is Catholic.

Back when I was a kid (and the Kingston Trio even made a song about the IRA), I thought it was a Catholic-Protestant thing, which was fighting for "Irish Independence", e.g. against the Church of England.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:56:47pm

re: #54 Boxy_brown

The IRA are largely catholic, they are fighting the largely protestant British in northern Ireland to unify Ireland under one state.

Most of the people in the Irish state they visualize joining Northern Ireland on to, on the other hand, curse them out freely as a load of murdering bastards, so it's an interesting relationship.

68 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:56:58pm

Bono: FUCK the revolution!

Youtube Video
69 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:57:24pm

re: #59 Catttt

Sinn Fein is most definitely Catholic. As to whether they are good Catholoics, that's not for me to say.

Well, if they are teaming up with Hamas, then we know in the least they are going to be good anti-semites.

And really, to be a GOOD anti-semite, it helps to be a GOOD Christian.

70 eastvillageinfidel  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:57:29pm

I think the IRA is probably mostly Catholic, but their agenda was more nationalistic - namely uniting all of Ireland. They are terrorist assholes in any case.

71 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:57:59pm

re: #55 Sharmuta

Yes.... More Irish children are going to die because of this fucker and his minions.

exactly...it's insane

72 itellu3times  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:05pm

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

I got it from Google, they have both Catholic and Protestant members. So, in general they are Christians.

Well, I'll say it again. If you have EVER questioned how in the world could what have happened in the 1930's had happened... then please, please...

Pay attention this time, because you are going to get the answer again, close up and personal, just for you.

Irish Christians and Hamas, yep, nationalism on the march.

Hey, that kind of stuff can give nationalism a bad name. Is Hamas even "nationalist", versus pan-galactic-Islamicist? And Ireland is already a nation, y'know. These are just violent fascists looking for an excuse.

73 researchok  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:18pm

Don't forget, Gerry Adams is banned from entering the US- terror ties.

74 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:23pm

Really, I wonder what is the power behind the movement to keep this shit alive?

Yes, it's the good old Communist International Conspiracy.

I am NOT joking.

75 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:29pm

re: #42 Fenboy

Believe me when I say that support did not go down well in the UK. The nuttier folks even saw it as offical US government support for the IRA.

It wasn't official support, but the Irish community in the USA has long had a soft spot for the IRA. Much of the IRA's operating budget came from the USA, most of it grassroots contributions "For The Lads".

76 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:41pm

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

Well, if they are teaming up with Hamas, then we know in the least they are going to be good anti-semites.

And really, to be a GOOD anti-semite, it helps to be a GOOD Christian.

That's not fair or correct.

77 Gus  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:58:59pm

Sinn Fein Deaths

Rather large list of people murdered by Sinn Fein.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:59:04pm

re: #63 gmsc

I had a friend who had a strong Irish heritage, but he had times, like you, where he wanted to disavow his Irish heritage, and once mentioned he wished there were something symbolic he could do to show it, like wearing a black band around his arm or something.

I told him, "If you're trying to disassociate yourself from unethical Irishmen, I'm not sure a black velvet band is the best approach . . ."
;)

Ah, I don't want to disavow it, I just want the power to excommunicate people.

You have to understand, I've got Jewish, Irish Catholic, and Irish Protestant ancestors, so this is one of those articles inclined to raise my blood pressure steeply...

/

79 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:59:23pm

re: #72 itellu3times

Hey, that kind of stuff can give nationalism a bad name. Is Hamas even "nationalist", versus pan-galactic-Islamicist? And Ireland is already a nation, y'know. These are just violent fascists looking for an excuse.

Whatever, good Christians and good Islamics having a little anti-semite reunion.

80 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 7:59:42pm

re: #74 MandyManners

Meh, they're just clapped out '60s rejects with nowhere to go. Once they die off they'll leave nothing of note.

81 Neo Con since 9-11  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:00:30pm

Memo
From Benjamin Netanyahu
To Gordon Brown.
I propose a trade. We will take the IRA if we can send you Hamas. At least those IRA bastards called ahead before blowing up a pub.
Love
Bibi

82 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:00:31pm

re: #73 researchok

Don't forget, Gerry Adams is banned from entering the US- terror ties.

But, ShortShit isn't.

83 Scion9  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:02pm

re: #16 Iron Fist

So the Irish Republican Army has decided that anti-Semitism becomes them?

It's not just the IRA unfortunately. They are just taking everything they view as "Irish" to an unapologetic extreme and that includes taking Ireland's infamous 'casual', mainstream Jew-hate to genocidal lunatic levels.

84 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:15pm

re: #68 Sharmuta

I am legal, I am not running from high unemployment for the record. But, that song rocks!

85 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:19pm

re: #80 Fenboy

Meh, they're just clapped out '60s rejects with nowhere to go. Once they die off they'll leave nothing of note.

You're wrong.

Ever heard of Antonio Gramsci?

86 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:26pm

Charles? If no one else has noted it, Sinn Fein is socialist, and regards its "religious" identity as more an "ethnic" one.

Or so they used to tell me in the Irish bars.

87 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:28pm

re: #76 Boxy_brown

That's not fair or correct.

Hmmmm, what was the motivation for all that anti-Jewish stuff that had been going on for almost 2000 years? Some Egyptian fascists?

88 Colonel Panik  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:43pm

The IRA has been playing footsie with the Islamic terrorists since the 1970's. IRA Terrorists have trained with the PLO, the PLO has supplied them with weapons for years and recently the Israelis were tracking an IRA sniper who was attacking Israeli soldiers in Gaza. The car bomb was an IRA invention.

If you go to Belfast, in the Republican neighborhoods you will see murals denouncing Ariel Sharon and supporting the PLO/Fatah, and now probably, Hezbollah.

In the Loyalist neighborhoods, you will see murals glorifying the Presbyterian Scotch-Irish influence on the settling of America and the American Revolution.


And in answer to your question Walter, the IRA's predominant belief is Marxism, but they put on a "Catholic" jacket to play the Irish American suckers in Boston for money and arms.

I had the unpleasant experience of being in an Irish pub in Millbrae California, shortly after 9/11 and listening to an exiled IRA "activist" give an alcohol fueled rant against George Bush and in favor Bin Laden. His Irish-American bar mates were getting very nervous the longer I stared at them, and they eventually encouraged him to leave. I hope they thought I was an FBI agent.

89 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:01:47pm

re: #84 eddiespaghetti

I am legal, I am not running from high unemployment for the record. But, that song rocks!

It's a moving performance.

Youtube Video
90 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:02:03pm

re: #85 MandyManners

Point.

91 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:02:30pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

Whatever, good Christians and good Islamics having a little anti-semite reunion.

I think the IRA types were allied with mid-east terrorists since the 1960s, at least.

92 onepistoffyid  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:02:32pm

It is indeed ironic that the Irish would side with Israel's enemies since the British persecuted both the Jews and the Irish....but as usual, Jew hatred trumps all.

I wonder how long Mr. Adams thinks a Protestant or a Catholic would survive in Gaza without the protection of the Israeli military?

93 Colonel Panik  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:02:40pm

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

Well, if they are teaming up with Hamas, then we know in the least they are going to be good anti-semites.

And really, to be a GOOD anti-semite, it helps to be a GOOD Christian.

The IRA are not "good Christians". They are Marxist terrorists with a Christian veneer.

94 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:02:51pm

IRA. Middle East. South America.

I'M LIVING IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION!

95 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:02:57pm

I am currently studying at a University, and it is fascinating to watch things Zombie has talked about on these boards pop up in front of me.

96 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:03:02pm

re: #89 Sharmuta

Oh, and I am irish!

97 gmsc  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:03:14pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, I don't want to disavow it, I just want the power to excommunicate people.

You have to understand, I've got Jewish, Irish Catholic, and Irish Protestant ancestors, so this is one of those articles inclined to raise my blood pressure steeply...

/

Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about other people. Be the best descendant of your Jewish, Irish Catholic, and Irish Protestant ancestors that you can be, and don't worry about those who share your heritage but dishonor it.

I'm not sure of much of my heritage, beyond people coming generically from "Western Europe", but I can guarantee you that, whatever my lineage, there are knuckleheads, scolds and thugs who share it. I can't worry about them.

98 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:03:31pm

re: #96 eddiespaghetti

Oh, and I am irish!

I think I'm going to take my Irish flag out of storage.

99 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:03:34pm

re: #84 eddiespaghetti

I am legal, I am not running from high unemployment for the record. But, that song rocks!

Ditto, on all three points.

100 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:04:07pm

re: #88 Colonel Panik

They didn't fear you were FBI; they know who the Feebs are.

They feared you were a seriously p.o.'d American.

101 gmsc  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:04:23pm

re: #96 eddiespaghetti

Oh, and I am irish!

OK, now I'm confused about the use of "spaghetti" in your screenname . . .

102 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:04:33pm

re: #89 Sharmuta

It's a moving performance.


[Video]

we are everyone's refuge

103 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:04:40pm

re: #90 Fenboy

Point.

I have no counter-point.

104 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:04:48pm

Of course- the stalkers will claim we're beating up on Christians again.

105 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:04:52pm

re: #93 Colonel Panik

The IRA are not "good Christians". They are Marxist terrorists with a Christian veneer.

Yea, I know the old "they're not really Christian" argument.

106 yesandno  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:04:53pm

To Hell in a Handbasket.....

and we thought we were raising ourselves up.

107 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:05:07pm

re: #91 Dianna

I think the IRA types were allied with mid-east terrorists since the 1960s, at least.

Claire Sterling.

108 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:05:35pm

re: #102 albusteve

we are everyone's refuge

Yes, we are.

And this is another example of why America kept religion out of politics.

109 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:05:43pm

re: #89 Sharmuta

It's a moving performance.


[Video]

Bono and U2 are generally good for superb performances. U2 is probably the best band to have emerged since the Beetles broke up.

110 gmsc  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:02pm

re: #94 MandyManners

IRA. Middle East. South America.

I'M LIVING IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION!

Don't forget the spend crazy Democrat-majority congress!

Now, if only we had another Reagan in the White House. :(

111 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:18pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

Whatever, good Christians and good Islamics having a little anti-semite reunion.

It goes WAY beyond that. It's all about the forward march of the Communitst International.

112 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:21pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

Of course- the stalkers will claim we're beating up on Christians again.

Ok, well give them a code name so it doesn't look like we are stating facts and truths. We wouldn't want any anti-idiotarian thinking happening here.

113 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:37pm

re: #89 Sharmuta

I gotta say, for a rock star, Bonno has to be one of the better ones. I have a thin skin for Holywood douche bags, but he hasn't raised my hackles...

114 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:40pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

That's because they're not.

The IRA/Sinn Fein types view their "Catholicism" as an ethnic identity.

115 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:41pm

re: #87 Walter L. Newton

Hmmmm, what was the motivation for all that anti-Jewish stuff that had been going on for almost 2000 years? Some Egyptian fascists?

It depends on the particulars of the "anti-Jewish stuff".

So you are stating that Christianity is inherently anti-semetic. (Anti Jewish.) There have been people who have identified themselves as "Christians" who have committed crimes against the Jews for sure, but it is in contradiction of the teachings of the theology. Writing off the theology as inherently "against Jews" is wrong.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:49pm

re: #66 jwb7605

Back when I was a kid (and the Kingston Trio even made a song about the IRA), I thought it was a Catholic-Protestant thing, which was fighting for "Irish Independence", e.g. against the Church of England.

To some extent, although it's more of a political and ethnic fight. Northern Ireland consists of the six counties (Down, Derry, Tyrone, Antrim and Armagh...and another one...Fermanagh...I THINK that's right) with a majority Protestant population. There's a long history of intense ethnic-religious feuding and governmental discrimination against Catholics, and violent paramilitary groups with their own partisan agendas--the sort of thing that went on all over Ireland, before Independence, but is now history, thank God, except for a few stupid people who still cheer on the fighting in the North.

I'd love to see a united Ireland, but it's not worth more people dying--thank God, things have gotten so very much better since the eighties, and God willing, they'll stay that way.

Gerry Adams can kiss my Judeo-Celtic ass.

117 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:06:58pm

re: #96 eddiespaghetti

Oh, and I am irish!

I thought so from the comment, but the spaghetti threw me.

118 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:09pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

WTF?

119 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:09pm

re: #94 MandyManners

IRA. Middle East. South America.

I'M LIVING IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION!

An old Kingston Trio song keeps coming back to me lately:

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain

.....

But, we know for certain
That some lucky day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away.
----------------------

Swap countries around, and same story, different era.

120 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:15pm

re: #91 Dianna

I think the IRA types were allied with mid-east terrorists since the 1960s, at least.

They got moat of their heavy arms from Libya.

121 jaunte  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:24pm

re: #108 Sharmuta

Yes, we are.

And this is another example of why America kept religion out of politics.

Say it again, a million times.

122 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:32pm

re: #106 yesandno

To Hell in a Handbasket... and we thought we were raising ourselves up.

It's all going to hell in a hand basket, the only conflict right now is an argument over the size of the hand basket.

123 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:32pm

re: #101 gmsc

It just sounded kool....

124 Etaoin Shrdlu  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:37pm

IRA-PLO cooperation: A long, cozy relationship

Article last week in the Jerusalem Post.

125 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:41pm

re: #103 MandyManners

What I meant was "Good Point". You are right about the Gramscians. My current list of lecturers includes the following, in a UK university, from far left to...less left:
Greek Communist
English Socialist
American Democrat
Bulgarian Centrist

What I was referring to was the Marxist terrorists themselves as a dead end.

126 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:45pm

re: #108 Sharmuta

Yes, we are.

And this is another example of why America kept religion out of politics.

we are devolving backwords...there will be hell to pay...I am very pessimistic

127 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:53pm

re: #15 Unakite

I despise that uuber-wanker, Bone-Head.

128 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:07:53pm

re: #121 jaunte

This is another example of why America kept religion out of politics!

129 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:08:06pm

re: #94 MandyManners

IRA. Middle East. South America.

I'M LIVING IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION!

Here's some music from that time to go with the news:

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
130 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:08:43pm

re: #113 eddiespaghetti

I gotta say, for a rock star, Bonno has to be one of the better ones. I have a thin skin for Holywood douche bags, but he hasn't raised my hackles...

Bono is lame musically...he's all about drama

131 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:09:16pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

Ok, well give them a code name so it doesn't look like we are stating facts and truths. We wouldn't want any anti-idiotarian thinking happening here.

WHAT?

132 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:09:50pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

To some extent, although it's more of a political and ethnic fight. Northern Ireland consists of the six counties (Down, Derry, Tyrone, Antrim and Armagh...and another one...Fermanagh...I THINK that's right) with a majority Protestant population. There's a long history of intense ethnic-religious feuding and governmental discrimination against Catholics, and violent paramilitary groups with their own partisan agendas--the sort of thing that went on all over Ireland, before Independence, but is now history, thank God, except for a few stupid people who still cheer on the fighting in the North.

I'd love to see a united Ireland, but it's not worth more people dying--thank God, things have gotten so very much better since the eighties, and God willing, they'll stay that way.

Gerry Adams can kiss my Judeo-Celtic ass.

I suggest you look up the Donegal Brigade. And what the IRA command had to do about it.

Many, many of the active IRA/Provos (at least through the 1980's) were from the Republic of Ireland. Where do you think the arms were coming from, anyway?

133 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:10:28pm

re: #127 WhiteRasta

I despise that uuber-wanker, Bone-Head.

me too...rock and roll is entirely foreign to them

134 HelloDare  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:10:31pm

I don't like this outsourcing. I think Bill Ayers should have met with Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. Screw Gerry Adams. /

135 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:10:38pm

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

Well, if they are teaming up with Hamas, then we know in the least they are going to be good anti-semites.

And really, to be a GOOD anti-semite, it helps to be a GOOD Christian.

Bullshit.

136 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:10:51pm

re: #120 Boxy_brown

They got moat of their heavy arms from Libya.

Light arms they bought everywhere. They tended to ship them out of the west coast, oddly - I never quite figured how that worked, but that was their route.

137 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:11:06pm

re: #130 albusteve

Bone-Head is another rich, tax evading wanker.

138 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:11:14pm

re: #130 albusteve

I grew up on Joshua tree, does that make me lame? don't answer that!

139 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:11:26pm

Irish Republican Army–Abwehr collaboration in World War II [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

140 gmsc  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:11:28pm

re: #94 MandyManners

IRA. Middle East. South America.

I'M LIVING IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION!

Scary thought – The college freshman who started college last fall weren't even born yet when Reagan left office. As a matter of fact, 0bama is the first president in their entire life whose last name was neither Bush nor Clinton.

Remember the Berlin Wall coming down? None of the freshman who began college last fall were alive yet.

141 Catttt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:03pm

re: #127 WhiteRasta

I despise that uuber-wanker, Bone-Head.

I totally agree.

142 jaunte  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:09pm

re: #128 Sharmuta

Unfortunately groups like the Clan-na-Gael here kept the IRA in funds.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:17pm

re: #72 itellu3times

Hey, that kind of stuff can give nationalism a bad name. Is Hamas even "nationalist", versus pan-galactic-Islamicist? And Ireland is already a nation, y'know. These are just violent fascists looking for an excuse.

My perception, and I may be wrong--it happens--is that Hamas is teetering toward 'pan-galactic Islamicist' (what a phrase), but is still keeping, or at least tolerating some of the trappings of the 60s-70s-80s Marxist/ethnic/liberation rhetoric that makes them appealing to the Western left. They're currently essentially a hybrid (my opinion) once again, but will probably continue to go Islamicist, and rely on their catspaws to go on filling in the oppressed indigenous peoples rhetoric for them.

144 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:20pm

re: #119 jwb7605

An old Kingston Trio song keeps coming back to me lately:

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain

.....

But, we know for certain
That some lucky day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away.
----------------------

Swap countries around, and same story, different era.

I searched for those lyrics, for a YOUTUBE song.

HA!

145 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:26pm

Has Archie enjoyed the U2 though?

146 abolitionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:38pm

Some background on Adams: I'll never deal with Adams again, says Bush - updated 12 March 2005
Excerpts:

President Bush personally ordered that Gerry Adams be frozen out of official engagements during his visit to America, furious that the Sinn Fein leader had betrayed his efforts to help to re-start the Northern Ireland peace process.
[snip]
Mr Bush was enraged to learn that at the same time as he was pressing Mr Adams late last year to relaunch the power-sharing deal, Sinn Fein's armed wing, the IRA, was planning the £26 million Northern Bank raid in Belfast
[snip]
For decades, Irish republicanism has been a source of strain in Anglo-American relations as successive British governments have tried to persuade Washington to clamp down on IRA fundraising in the US. As prime minister, John Major was so angry when President Clinton first granted Mr Adams a visa in 1994 that he refused to take his telephone calls.
147 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:39pm

Everyone -

Difference is THIS - Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein never wanted to conquer and obliterate the UK "back in the day." They DID want to annex "N.I." to the Republic, whether the Republic desired it or not.
Gerry Adams & Co. have settled for less. Effectively, a "Better Deal" for the Catholic residents of "N.I." (Which they could have had in 1969, by the way.)
If Gerry Adams urges a settlement like his with the UK to HAMAS, all well and good. If he comes to give them succor - "...May His Soul Be In Hell, Half an Hour Before G-d Knows He Is Dead..."

-S-

148 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:39pm

re: #137 WhiteRasta

Bone-Head is another rich, tax evading wanker.

good for thee...etc...another pinhead leftists rolling around in his multi millions telling people how to live

149 Wishing  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:12:53pm

re: #89 Sharmuta

It's a moving performance.


[Video]

Great performance. And his hair is clean. (that gets points in my book!)

150 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:00pm

re: #130 albusteve

Not to mention, he raised $ for Africa with the Bush admin (who I know he hated) and did it with a smile. Point is, he is not a Dixie Chick wanting to make a point in the papers...

151 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:06pm

re: #134 HelloDare

I don't like this outsourcing. I think Bill Ayers should have met with Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. Screw Gerry Adams. /

Bill Ayers can meet with Hamas, as long as the meeting is ended by the arrival of a Israeli Smart Bomb.

/joking

Hamas Delenda Est.

152 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:15pm

I'm sticking the U2 in the spinoffs.

153 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:20pm

re: #144 MandyManners

I searched for those lyrics, for a YOUTUBE song.

HA!

YOU FOUND IT? Link? Please please please?

154 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:23pm

re: #115 Boxy_brown

It depends on the particulars of the "anti-Jewish stuff".

So you are stating that Christianity is inherently anti-semetic. (Anti Jewish.) There have been people who have identified themselves as "Christians" who have committed crimes against the Jews for sure, but it is in contradiction of the teachings of the theology. Writing off the theology as inherently "against Jews" is wrong.

I don't care if it is against the "theology." The fact of the matter is THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH is the vehicle that kept anti-semitism alive for almost 2000 years.

And at time during those 2000 years, other "folks" helped out, but bottom line is, right up to Vatican II, the Jews were considered "christ killers."

So, I don't care what is in your heart. It's easy for you to say "they weren't really Christians" after the fact, but guess what, they were Christians.

They identified themselves as Christians, they had hundreds and hundreds of churches, schools, meeting places, convents, retreats, thousands and thousands of books, million and millions of members, a fortune in land, property, money power and politics.

And they had an open campaign and hatred for Jews.

Plain, simple, historical fact.

And we still see it, as in this little thread about the IRA.

155 solomonpanting  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:29pm
Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams Thursday denounced the Israel-led blockade on Gaza as having turned the coastal strip into an "open-air prison," news agencies reported.
"This is a total denial of the rights of the people of Palestine. This is an open-air prison," The Guardian quoted the Sinn Fein president as saying during a visit to the Hamas-ruled territory. "People can't travel out of here, they can't travel in."

And the IRA head is now reporting to Barack Obama.

Obama might as well listen to Reverend Wright.
Oh....

156 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:39pm

re: #140 gmsc

Scary thought – The college freshman who started college last fall weren't even born yet when Reagan left office. As a matter of fact, 0bama is the first president in their entire life whose last name was neither Bush nor Clinton.

Remember the Berlin Wall coming down? None of the freshman who began college last fall were alive yet.

Oh, my.

That's a challenge.

157 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:43pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

Yea, I know the old "they're not really Christian" argument.


People do shitty things to one another for whatever excuse comes in handy at any given moment. If you are given a book that says "up, up, up" and you use it as an excuse to go down whose fault is that?

Unless you can come up with a section in the testaments that says set up a concentration camp...

158 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:50pm

re: #140 gmsc

Wow, that's something to stop and think about.

159 Dianna  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:13:54pm

re: #138 eddiespaghetti

I grew up on Joshua tree, does that make me lame? don't answer that!

You are not alone, except that I was in and out of college, and it was the soundtrack for my life for a while there.

160 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:18pm

re: #110 gmsc

Don't forget the spend crazy Democrat-majority congress!

Now, if only we had another Reagan in the White House. :(

gmsc -

(Ducking Ashtray) - We will in 2012, and boy will SHE be pissed.

-S-

161 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:28pm

re: #130 albusteve

Bono is lame musically...he's all about drama

Uhh...what am I missing? Isn't that what a lot of rock music is about?

162 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:38pm

re: #141 Catttt

Uuber-wanker wants to spend my tax dollars on his own pet causes while dodging taxes in his own country.

I'd like to spit on him, except I would not like to dirty my spit.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:40pm

re: #81 Neo Con since 9-11

Memo
From Benjamin Netanyahu
To Gordon Brown.
I propose a trade. We will take the IRA if we can send you Hamas. At least those IRA bastards called ahead before blowing up a pub.
Love
Bibi

When the suicide bombings started to become routine during the second Intifada, I kept staring at the news, and saying "Hell, who would have thought I'd be nostalgic for the f****ing IRA?"

164 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:51pm

re: #140 gmsc

Heck, I was only 6, and I'm pushing 25 now...

165 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:14:53pm

re: #145 Sharmuta

But of course...in between cleaning my kitchen...

166 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:15:09pm

This continues the trend.... groups outside of AQ's direct influence are switching from fundamentalism back to early terror days of nationalism and revolutionary dialectic. This fits well with our new administration and their lean.

167 Desert Dog  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:15:22pm

re: #138 eddiespaghetti

I grew up on Joshua tree, does that make me lame? don't answer that!

That's an newer one, I started with Boy

They look like they are 12 years old

Youtube Video
168 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:15:25pm

re: #150 eddiespaghetti

Not to mention, he raised $ for Africa with the Bush admin (who I know he hated) and did it with a smile. Point is, he is not a Dixie Chick wanting to make a point in the papers...

if I had his platform I could raise money too...no big deal...he needs to do some Toot's and maybe some Marley

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:15:42pm

re: #83 Scion9

It's not just the IRA unfortunately. They are just taking everything they view as "Irish" to an unapologetic extreme and that includes taking Ireland's infamous 'casual', mainstream Jew-hate to genocidal lunatic levels.

I've never felt Ireland was particularly anti-Semitic. When I've travelled there, I've certainly never felt it the way I do in England.

170 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:15:49pm

re: #159 Dianna

I was in high skool!

171 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:15:53pm

re: #153 jwb7605

YOU FOUND IT? Link? Please please please?

No. I did not. If I had, I would've posted it.

172 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:16:04pm

re: #157 Boxy_brown

People do shitty things to one another for whatever excuse comes in handy at any given moment. If you are given a book that says "up, up, up" and you use it as an excuse to go down whose fault is that?

Unless you can come up with a section in the testaments that says set up a concentration camp...

I HAVE 2000 years of Christian history. Case closed.

173 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:16:19pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

I apologise unreservedly for my dipshit countrymen,

174 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:16:48pm

re: #161 Unakite

Uhh...what am I missing? Isn't that what a lot of rock music is about?

no...it's about Chuck Berry and Little Richard

175 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:17:31pm

re: #168 albusteve

Toots? I know Marley, good as well!

176 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:17:48pm

Maybe it's time to study the history or the Reagan Admnistration.

177 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:17:49pm

re: #174 albusteve

no...it's about Chuck Berry and Little Richard

Are there any post 1980 bands you respect musically?

178 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:31pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

Are there any post 1980 bands you respect musically?

I like the B52's.

179 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:39pm

re: #175 eddiespaghetti

Toots? I know Marley, good as well!

Toot's and the Mayalls...Burning Spear etc...these people know suffering

180 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:44pm

OT
Empire Strikes Back

The Vatican REJECTED Obama's appointment of Caroline Kennedy as ambassador to the Vatican.

(Today's Washington Times Front Page Article: "Vatican Frowns on Envoy Prospects")

181 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:48pm

re: #173 Fenboy
So you are not from Bostons Back Bay Fens?

182 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:49pm

OF

183 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:55pm

Terrorists don't change their stripes, and cannot be trusted to lay down their guns and participate in democracy. I don't care what country, what conflict. They are not honest brokers- ever.

184 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:56pm

re: #171 MandyManners

No. I did not. If I had, I would've posted it.

I hadn't thought of typing in the LYRICS.
I did that, and it yielded this link.

Youtube Video

It's well worth the listen!

185 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:18:57pm

re: #141 Catttt

I totally agree.

I respect your view, but I'm still enjoying the song!

186 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:19:05pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

Are there any post 1980 bands you respect musically?

the Stones

187 Wishing  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:19:14pm

re: #180 alegrias

OT
Empire Strikes Back

The Vatican REJECTED Obama's appointment of Caroline Kennedy as ambassador to the Vatican.

(Today's Washington Times Front Page Article: "Vatican Frowns on Envoy Prospects")

Dayum, she can't even buy a decent gig!

188 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:19:25pm

Twisting from a thread about the IRA to music, go girls!

189 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:19:38pm

re: #180 alegrias

OT
Empire Strikes Back

The Vatican REJECTED Obama's appointment of Caroline Kennedy as ambassador to the Vatican.

(Today's Washington Times Front Page Article: "Vatican Frowns on Envoy Prospects")

LINK?

NOW.

190 gmsc  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:19:43pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Oh, my.

That's a challenge.

re: #158 sngnsgt

Wow, that's something to stop and think about.

Here's a more complete list to give you an idea of their mindset. Among the most eye-catching facts about this year's college freshman:

• The NC-17 rating has been around longer than they have.

• Clarence Thomas has been sitting on the Supreme Court all their lives.

• They don't remember Roseanne Barr performing the national anthem.

• Off shore drilling in the US has been prohibited all their lives.

191 Desert Dog  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:19:53pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

I don't care if it is against the "theology." The fact of the matter is THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH is the vehicle that kept anti-semitism alive for almost 2000 years.

And at time during those 2000 years, other "folks" helped out, but bottom line is, right up to Vatican II, the Jews were considered "christ killers."

So, I don't care what is in your heart. It's easy for you to say "they weren't really Christians" after the fact, but guess what, they were Christians.

They identified themselves as Christians, they had hundreds and hundreds of churches, schools, meeting places, convents, retreats, thousands and thousands of books, million and millions of members, a fortune in land, property, money power and politics.

And they had an open campaign and hatred for Jews.

Plain, simple, historical fact.

And we still see it, as in this little thread about the IRA.

Let's round them all up then! We'll get them and those nasty muslims, and those odd Jewish people, get them too! Woooohoooo! Round them all up!
Those "RELIGIOUS" people are all E-VILLLLLLLL! They bring nothing to the table!

////////////////////

192 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:07pm

re: #175 eddiespaghetti

I once spent a wonderful evening at Jarrett Park, Montego Bay and saw Toots Hibbert, Bob Marley and Peter Tosh in one evening.

193 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:14pm

re: #186 albusteve

the Stones

They formed back in the 60's. so I'll take that as a no.

194 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:14pm

re: #181 snowcrash

Ha! I get that quite a bit here. In fact I'm from The Fens.

195 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:16pm

re: #162 WhiteRasta

Uuber-wanker wants to spend my tax dollars on his own pet causes while dodging taxes in his own country.

I'd like to spit on him, except I would not like to dirty my spit.

* * * *
Exactly, Bono's another tax cheater. Socialism for thee, but not for me! Plus sending private planes to get his hat? Talk about eco-hypocrite & lecturing gasbag.

196 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:20pm

re: #186 albusteve

the Stones

that's not fair amigo...yes there are plenty of good bands and great playing out there...I get you

197 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:35pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

Are there any post 1980 bands you respect musically?

Dark_Falcon -

THE POLICE/Sting, Men at Work, The Go-Go's and The Tubes. That is about all.

-S-

198 stuiec  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:38pm

In the 1970s, the PLO and the IRA had extensive links.

Even in the 1990s, there were IRA operatives on "exchange" programs with FARC in Colombia.

Funny that the Obama Administration doesn't think there's a global war on terror: terror organizations around the globe have long been offering each other mutual aid, training and support through a loose global web of connections.

And they spread "expertise" through formal and informal channels:

Modern suicide bombings were first operationally employed during the early 1980s in southern Lebanon by the Amal and Hezbollah groups. The technique spread to the Tamil Tigers in 1987 and to Hamas in 1993. Over the ensuing decade, an increasing number of terrorist groups have engaged in suicide bombings: Palestine Islamic Jihad in 1994, Kurdistan Workers Party in 1996, al-Qaeda in 1998, Chechens in 2000, and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades in 2002.13 With the exception of the Kurdistan
Workers Party, this pattern has been part of a radical Islamic global insurgency against the United States and its allies since 1993.
199 Desert Dog  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:20:39pm

re: #192 WhiteRasta

I once spent a wonderful evening at Jarrett Park, Montego Bay and saw Toots Hibbert, Bob Marley and Peter Tosh in one evening.

I bet you got stoned by osmosis at that show! Sounds like Rasta Paradise!

200 yesandno  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:21:00pm

re: #180 alegrias

OT
Empire Strikes Back

The Vatican REJECTED Obama's appointment of Caroline Kennedy as ambassador to the Vatican.

(Today's Washington Times Front Page Article: "Vatican Frowns on Envoy Prospects")

The Pope is definately with it!

201 pink freud  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:21:19pm

re: #189 MandyManners

From the Telegraph.

202 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:21:23pm

re: #183 Sharmuta

I had a pet theory as to why the IRA agreed to the so called truce in 05, i.e. they were just getting old and were more interested making money.

203 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:21:33pm

re: #192 WhiteRasta

I once spent a wonderful evening at Jarrett Park, Montego Bay and saw Toots Hibbert, Bob Marley and Peter Tosh in one evening.

there you have it...unless you have done this you cannot know the power of repression

204 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:21:42pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

I don't care if it is against the "theology."


Just details, eh?

The fact of the matter is THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH is the vehicle that kept anti-semitism alive for almost 2000 years.


Lots of things have kept it alive, that doesn't make them congruent with the teachings of Christ. (Note that I am an agnostic, btw)

And at time during those 2000 years, other "folks" helped out, but bottom line is, right up to Vatican II, the Jews were considered "christ killers."


Well, that's not particularly "Christian", now is it? You need to take that up with the Vatican.

So, I don't care what is in your heart.


Well, I am starting not to care what's coming out of your mouth.

It's easy for you to say "they weren't really Christians" after the fact, but guess what, they were Christians.


Not if they were murdering for the sake of Christianity.

They identified themselves as Christians,


Lots of people identify themselves with things they don't understand or abuse.

Looks like you got a chip on your shoulder Walter, when you conflate it to the extent that you have it's bigotry.

205 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:21:51pm

Party at Sharmuta's when mr. adams meets his Maker.

206 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:21:55pm

re: #195 alegrias

Fark, if I just hate that guy.

207 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:22:18pm

re: #190 gmsc

Oh jeez, I'd better go get another beer, I think I'm gonna' need it.

208 OldLineTexan  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:22:21pm

re: #171 MandyManners

No. I did not. If I had, I would've posted it.

Here ya go

209 jaunte  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:22:25pm

re: #183 Sharmuta

Terrorists don't change their stripes, and cannot be trusted to lay down their guns and participate in democracy. I don't care what country, what conflict. They are not honest brokers- ever.

The insanity of the IRA can be measured by the fact that they were willing to ally themselves with Nazi Germany to fight the British. They would simply have been the next country swallowed up if Britain had fallen.
Likewise their current flirtation with Islamists posing as Palestinian nationalists.

210 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:23:03pm

re: #184 jwb7605

I hadn't thought of typing in the LYRICS.
I did that, and it yielded this link.



It's well worth the listen!

Got a case of the warm-and-fuzzies!

*grumble*

211 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:23:13pm

re: #199 Desert Dog

The show went on all night until dawn. What a great night it was.

212 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:23:15pm

re: #176 MandyManners

Maybe it's time to study the history or the Reagan Admnistration.

* * * *
Lesson for today:

When marxists took over a medical college and held Americans hostage, Reagan INVADED the island of Grenada.

213 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:23:34pm

re: #192 WhiteRasta

Nice, wish we could all do our best concerts again. Mine was Plant/Page 1995 in the Columbia Gorge!

214 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:23:43pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

I don't care if it is against the "theology." The fact of the matter is THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH is the vehicle that kept anti-semitism alive for almost 2000 years.

And at time during those 2000 years, other "folks" helped out, but bottom line is, right up to Vatican II, the Jews were considered "christ killers."

So, I don't care what is in your heart. It's easy for you to say "they weren't really Christians" after the fact, but guess what, they were Christians.

They identified themselves as Christians, they had hundreds and hundreds of churches, schools, meeting places, convents, retreats, thousands and thousands of books, million and millions of members, a fortune in land, property, money power and politics.

And they had an open campaign and hatred for Jews.

Plain, simple, historical fact.

And we still see it, as in this little thread about the IRA.

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thing, but part of the reason was they had to wait until the seventh (eighth, sorry, not a historian) century for another "religion" to pop up and be even worse anti-semites.

215 albusteve  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:23:43pm

re: #199 Desert Dog

I bet you got stoned by osmosis at that show! Sounds like Rasta Paradise!

you have not lived musically til you have been to a raggae event in Jamaica...they take this stuff world wide now but I am talking 1975 or so...you had to be there

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:24:19pm

re: #115 Boxy_brown

It depends on the particulars of the "anti-Jewish stuff".

So you are stating that Christianity is inherently anti-semetic. (Anti Jewish.) There have been people who have identified themselves as "Christians" who have committed crimes against the Jews for sure, but it is in contradiction of the teachings of the theology. Writing off the theology as inherently "against Jews" is wrong.

More complicated than that. Some of the 'people who identified themselves as Christians' were leaders of the Church, and of nations that identified themselves as Christian nations. Rather a lot of them, actually.

I am pleased to state that those days are almost over, and, thank God, the Enlightenment, and Vatican Two and a whole lot of other stuff has changed the world greatly. And 'the theology' has stated all kinds of stuff in the past 2000 years, some of it deeply and inherently anti-Jewish.

I bring this up, not because I want to offend Christians here, but because I occasionally get into tiffs with people around here around the 'theology' and inherent nature of Islam. If Christianity can get beyond some of the horrific stuff that went down in its name over the centuries, I think Islam can have its own Enlightenment, and get through the crap it's in the middle of now.

My two cents.

217 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:24:43pm

re: #202 MrPaulRevere

I had a pet theory as to why the IRA agreed to the so called truce in 05, i.e. they were just getting old and were more interested making money.

MrPaul Revere-

BINGO, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding - Yours is a WINNER. Seems like NOW they can screw with other peoples nations through their "good behavior."

-S-

218 Killian Bundy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:24:58pm

re: #180 alegrias

OT
Empire Strikes Back

The Vatican REJECTED Obama's appointment of Caroline Kennedy as ambassador to the Vatican.

(Today's Washington Times Front Page Article: "Vatican Frowns on Envoy Prospects")

That makes several now. How long is Obama going to keep offering up pro-abortion candidates, does he think he can wear down the Pope with this strategy?

/immovable object

219 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:25:00pm

For SanFranciscoZionist, here's something to make you feel better, a sensible Irishman (and one of the few academics I have genuine respect for).

220 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:25:25pm

re: #194 Fenboy
The original! Very interesting.

221 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:25:32pm

re: #215 albusteve

Word! Yea!

222 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:25:47pm

re: #140 gmsc

Scary thought – The college freshman who started college last fall weren't even born yet when Reagan left office. As a matter of fact, 0bama is the first president in their entire life whose last name was neither Bush nor Clinton.

Remember the Berlin Wall coming down? None of the freshman who began college last fall were alive yet.

I'm proud to say I have a piece of the Berlin wall (and Reagan was the first president I voted for when I was old enough to vote). :)

223 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:25:48pm

re: #189 MandyManners

LINK?

NOW.

* * * *
I'd love to link but don't know how on this newfangled Mac thingy.

It's on the print edition of April 9-10, 2009.

"Vatican Frowns on Envoy Prospects: Obama's pro-choice policies pose Catholic conflict"

224 mikalm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:25:55pm

Walter, it's Good Friday and Easter weekend. Could you please lay off the militant-secularist bigotry?

225 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:26:00pm

re: #191 Desert Dog

Let's round them all up then! We'll get them and those nasty muslims, and those odd Jewish people, get them too! Woooohoooo! Round them all up!
Those "RELIGIOUS" people are all E-VILLLLLLLL! They bring nothing to the table!

////////////////////

Religious people are wonderful people, at least the ones I know. But you want to just deny 2000 years of Christian history, make believe that it was "those other Christians" that push all that Jew hatred, you know, those folks who "called themselves Christians."

Funny, it was really hard for the Jews during those 2000 years to tell the difference. Why, because there was no difference. Except for some scatter gnostic groups, mainstream Christianity was anti-Jew.

I don't want to round anyone up, except possibly any folks who will start this shit up again, and mind you, it has reared it's ugly head again, big time, and this article above just backs that up.

So, your hyperbole does not change the truth. Unless you want to rewrite history, which some folks have tried over the years.

226 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:26:03pm

Anyone who doesn't understand the signifcance of this is either young, dumb or full of shit.

227 Desert Dog  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:26:15pm

re: #215 albusteve

you have not lived musically til you have been to a raggae event in Jamaica...they take this stuff world wide now but I am talking 1975 or so...you had to be there

I saw Steele Pulse here years ago (back when people still lit up at concerts). Nothing compared to seeing the real deal though

228 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:26:18pm

Real nice talk.
Just what our Christian friends care to read here at LGF on Good Friday.

229 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:26:25pm

re: #212 alegrias

* * * *
Lesson for today:

When marxists took over a medical college and held Americans hostage, Reagan INVADED the island of Grenada.

alegrias -

Invade, hell! - He blew out the Grenada Government in the process - a case for Regime Change if there ever was one.

-S-

230 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:26:57pm

re: #212 alegrias

* * * *
Lesson for today:

When marxists took over a medical college and held Americans hostage, Reagan INVADED the island of Grenada.

True.

It is not applicable to what's going on now.

231 Fenboy  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:27:09pm

re: #229 Dr. Shalit

alegrias -

Invade, hell! - He blew out the Grenada Government in the process - a case for Regime Change if there ever was one.

-S-

And it sure as hell slammed the breaks on Soviet infiltration of the Carribbean beyond Cuba.

232 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:27:10pm

re: #189 MandyManners

LINK?

NOW.

* * * *
Vatican Rejects Caroline Kennedy article is written by John Phillips and James Morrison

233 stuiec  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:27:14pm

re: #119 jwb7605

Also puts one in mind of Tom Lehrer's We Will All Go Together (When We Go).

234 WhiteRasta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:27:41pm

re: #215 albusteve

Steve, ever heard of the Third World Band? I went to school with the lead guitarist. True story.

235 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:28:20pm

re: #233 stuiec

Also puts one in mind of Tom Lehrer's We Will All Go Together (When We Go).

Another classic near the top of my list!

236 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:28:29pm

re: #186 albusteve

the Stones

They're not post-1980. They just lingered.

237 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:28:33pm

re: #223 alegrias

* * * *
I'd love to link but don't know how on this newfangled Mac thingy.

It's on the print edition of April 9-10, 2009.

"Vatican Frowns on Envoy Prospects: Obama's pro-choice policies pose Catholic conflict"

I cannot accept this, alegrias.

GIVE A LINK.

238 mikalm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:28:38pm

re: #228 unrealizedviewpoint

Real nice talk.
Just what our Christian friends care to read here at LGF on Good Friday.

What I said above. I hear more of this kind of rhetoric here all the time, and it's getting tiresome.

239 Wishing  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:29:02pm

re: #232 alegrias

* * * *
Vatican Rejects Caroline Kennedy article is written by John Phillips and James Morrison

story

240 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:29:04pm

re: #226 MandyManners

Anyone who doesn't understand the signifcance of this is either young, dumb or full of shit.

You forgot "all the above", I think.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:29:08pm

re: #173 Fenboy

I apologise unreservedly for my dipshit countrymen,

Ahh, I wouldn't bother. We've all got idiots. Yours may work out...

242 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:29:19pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist


I bring this up, not because I want to offend Christians here, but because I occasionally get into tiffs with people around here around the 'theology' and inherent nature of Islam. If Christianity can get beyond some of the horrific stuff that went down in its name over the centuries, I think Islam can have its own Enlightenment, and get through the crap it's in the middle of now.

I see what you are saying and yes, the church, particularly the vatacan had not lived up to the words it preaches. However, there is no equivalant in the bible for the overt antisemitism or "anti every other religion" teachings of the Koran.

To say that Jews were "Christ killers" misses the whole, entire, complete point of the story. It doesn't mean anything unless it is humanity that killed Christ.

243 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:29:49pm

re: #232 alegrias

* * * *
Vatican Rejects Caroline Kennedy article is written by John Phillips and James Morrison

LINK! LINK! LINK!

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:30:09pm

re: #183 Sharmuta

Terrorists don't change their stripes, and cannot be trusted to lay down their guns and participate in democracy. I don't care what country, what conflict. They are not honest brokers- ever.

Irgun?

(yes, I'm poking with a stick, but it's a serious question...)

245 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:30:29pm

re: #204 Boxy_brown

Lots of people identify themselves with things they don't understand or abuse.

Looks like you got a chip on your shoulder Walter, when you conflate it to the extent that you have it's bigotry.

That's your little easy way out, a way not to have to deal with the facts, put me down, try to undermine the person himself, the one who is speaking truth.

I really don't care if you are a believer or not, agnostic, or whatever. It's an empty point on your part, it doesn't change any of the history, facts or truth.

Then I guess there has been only a hand full of "real" Christians in the last 2000 years, if we use your "after the fact" logic.

Damn, a lot of fucking people have lost their lives just to support such a small group of true Christians.

Sad.

246 Wishing  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:30:36pm

re: #243 MandyManners

LINK! LINK! LINK!

mandy go up four and you will find it...it says STORY highlighted in blue

247 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:30:36pm

re: #238 mikalm

What I said above. I hear more of this kind of rhetoric here all the time, and it's getting tiresome.

FridayNightDrinkingThread maybe...

248 wiffersnapper  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:30:51pm

Fein InSINNity

249 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:30:51pm

re: #222 Unakite

I'm proud to say I have a piece of the Berlin wall (and Reagan was the first president I voted for when I was old enough to vote). :)

Unakite -

Good for you. I don't - AND - I am old enough, by a bit, to remember it GOING UP in 1961. Was Happy as Hell to see it come down in 1989, even though my first Presidential vote was for George McGovern in 1972 - a long story- too long for this discussion.

-S-

250 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #174 albusteve

no...it's about Chuck Berry and Little Richard

Gotcha! Different generations. :)

251 Colonel Panik  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:31:25pm

re: #234 WhiteRasta

Steve, ever heard of the Third World Band? I went to school with the lead guitarist. True story.

96 degrees...in the shade...

252 alegrias  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:31:57pm

re: #218 Killian Bundy

That makes several now. How long is Obama going to keep offering up pro-abortion candidates, does he think he can wear down the Pope with this strategy?

/immovable object

* * * *
Pink FLoyd had a song whose refrain comes to mind:

Hey, Obama, leave the Pope alone!
He don't need your crappy appointments.

253 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:32:50pm

re: #242 Boxy_brown

I see what you are saying and yes, the church, particularly the vatacan had not lived up to the words it preaches. However, there is no equivalant in the bible for the overt antisemitism or "anti every other religion" teachings of the Koran.

To say that Jews were "Christ killers" misses the whole, entire, complete point of the story. It doesn't mean anything unless it is humanity that killed Christ.

The point is far from missed, it fucking happened, end of story. Of course it doesn't mean anything to you, because you want to make believe it never happened and sweep it under the table.

254 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:32:54pm
Mr Obama was reportedly seeking to reward John F Kennedy's daughter, who publicly gave her support to his election bid. She had been poised to replace Hillary Clinton as New York senator,...

So?

255 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:32:58pm

re: #190 gmsc

Here's a more complete list to give you an idea of their mindset. Among the most eye-catching facts about this year's college freshman:

• The NC-17 rating has been around longer than they have.

• Clarence Thomas has been sitting on the Supreme Court all their lives.

• They don't remember Roseanne Barr performing the national anthem.

• Off shore drilling in the US has been prohibited all their lives.

One thing for which they can count their blessings and ask the older generation, WTF?

256 coldwarrior  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:33:22pm

re: #249 Dr. Shalit

Unakite -

Good for you. I don't - AND - I am old enough, by a bit, to remember it GOING UP in 1961. Was Happy as Hell to see it come down in 1989, even though my first Presidential vote was for George McGovern in 1972 - a long story- too long for this discussion.

-S-

been there, done that :)

257 stuiec  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:33:33pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

My sentiments exactly.

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:33:50pm

re: #222 Unakite

I'm proud to say I have a piece of the Berlin wall (and Reagan was the first president I voted for when I was old enough to vote). :)

My dad's got one. A friend of his was in Berlin when it went down, and he said his thoughts in order were:

1. It's the end of Communism. Oh my God.
2. I am so lucky to be standing here witnessing this, not just in my lifetime, but with my own eyes.
3. I don't have to do any Christmas shopping this year.

He put them in shadow boxes, with labels and a 'certificate of authenticity' he created himself.

259 mikalm  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:34:15pm

Okay, I'm not in the mood to spar with the bitter, angry drunk tonight. See y'all later.

260 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:34:36pm

STOP THIS BULLSHIT NOTION NOW.

261 eddiespaghetti  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:35:15pm

Standard fodder for us, should we cut back on missile defense with the North Koreans deploying missiles?

Answer: No!

- F-22?: Best discussion I have heard, via HH: No!

262 nyc redneck  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:35:42pm

gerry fookin' adams
makes me wonder if he ever believed in anything bigger than himself.
of course he wants to meet w/ o.
they have a lot in common.
self-aggrandizing, self-promoting opportunistic fools.

fck gerry adams and the accent he rode in on.

263 coldwarrior  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:36:09pm

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

i came back with 200 pounds of wall in boxes i have about 6 ounces left!

264 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:36:19pm

re: #242 Boxy_brown

I see what you are saying and yes, the church, particularly the vatacan had not lived up to the words it preaches. However, there is no equivalant in the bible for the overt antisemitism or "anti every other religion" teachings of the Koran.

To say that Jews were "Christ killers" misses the whole, entire, complete point of the story. It doesn't mean anything unless it is humanity that killed Christ.

Thank you, both for hearing me out and responding thoughtfully, and also because what you said just now, I think, is going to be useful to me with some stuff I've been thinking out about religion and politics...I'll make a mess of it if I try to verbalize it now.

Happy Easter all.

265 stuiec  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:37:06pm

re: #237 MandyManners

I cannot accept this, alegrias.

GIVE A LINK.

As the kitteh said, "Srsly?" Google is your friend -- specifically and only in the context of finding links instantly.

266 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:37:56pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

SF Zionist -

Back in "the day" - those of Torah - Our Jews were also a pretty barbaric people. Pretty good militarily too. We have certainly "mellowed" over the years.
Islam can do the same certainly. The question is - will the rest of the World wait? - AND - can it afford to? There lies the RUB.

-S-

267 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:38:38pm

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

That's your little easy way out, a way not to have to deal with the facts, put me down, try to undermine the person himself, the one who is speaking truth.

Well, no, what you are saying is not the truth as I see it unless you can point out where the bible tells Christians to persicute Jews. If you can I will gladly shut right the hell up.

I really don't care if you are a believer or not, agnostic, or whatever.

'K.


Then I guess there has been only a hand full of "real" Christians in the last 2000 years, if we use your "after the fact" logic.

Indeed. One of the reasons that I am not a Christian, other than the whole "You probably just rot" thing is because I couldn't begin to "walk the walk".

Regardless, pinning antisemitism on Christianity is an unfair rap. I don't know what you were taught but when I was dragged away to Sunday school as a child I was thought that Jews were our friends. re: #253 Walter L. Newton

The point is far from missed, it fucking happened, end of story. Of course it doesn't mean anything to you, because you want to make believe it never happened and sweep it under the table.

268 LC LaWedgie  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:39:05pm

Seems to me that Irish republicanism is more about national separation... religion is merely an identity used to justify it.

It sure as hell ain't "Christian."

269 pink freud  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:39:27pm

re: #243 MandyManners

LINK! LINK! LINK!

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

270 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:40:14pm

It's late and I'm tired. I'm not up to a debate. However, there is no such thing as "the Christian church:" since the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches split in 1054. The first Christians were Jewish. Christianity as defined in the New Testament does not call for the persecution of ANYONE. That antisemitism and persecution occurred throughout history I do not dispute (although I do question 2000 years); I do deny that such practice is inherent to Christianity.

271 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:40:26pm

re: #208 OldLineTexan

OLT, did you see that link I put up on an old thread that has some old shepherds (Baaa Studs) doing some very funny things with sheep? I know what you're thinking, but I know YOU would think it was as funny as I did--since Texas is CATTLE country. I know this is o/t and Imma gonna getta inna trouble, but would you like me to post it again--it's so worth it.

272 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:40:38pm

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

The point is far from missed, it fucking happened, end of story. Of course it doesn't mean anything to you, because you want to make believe it never happened and sweep it under the table.

OK, I Know people who lived through it, I have been to Dachau... The idea that I want to "pretend it didn't happen" gets a big Fuck You from Boxy. Anything else you ignorant prick?

273 OldLineTexan  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:41:23pm

re: #271 katemaclaren

OLT, did you see that link I put up on an old thread that has some old shepherds (Baaa Studs) doing some very funny things with sheep? I know what you're thinking, but I know YOU would think it was as funny as I did--since Texas is CATTLE country. I know this is o/t and Imma gonna getta inna trouble, but would you like me to post it again--it's so worth it.

A&M is where men are men and sheep are nervous.

/

274 rumcrook  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:41:24pm

the IRA are not religious extremists thier political extremists and terrorists.

275 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:41:36pm

re: #264 SanFranciscoZionist

Thank you, both for hearing me out and responding thoughtfully, and also because what you said just now, I think, is going to be useful to me with some stuff I've been thinking out about religion and politics...I'll make a mess of it if I try to verbalize it now.

Happy Easter all.

Thanks for that.

276 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:41:44pm

re: #249 Dr. Shalit

Unakite -

Good for you. I don't - AND - I am old enough, by a bit, to remember it GOING UP in 1961. Was Happy as Hell to see it come down in 1989, even though my first Presidential vote was for George McGovern in 1972 - a long story- too long for this discussion.

-S-

Cool. I was alive when it went up, but just. I was two when it went up, so no memory. I was in Berlin a few months after most of it came down, though. There were still a few sections standing and you could break pieces off (hardest concrete in the world) :)

277 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:42:05pm

re: #273 OldLineTexan

rotflmao! I forgot!

278 OldLineTexan  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:42:19pm

re: #274 rumcrook

the IRA are not religious extremists thier political extremists and terrorists.

Indeed, they aren't running about dousing heathens with holy water, are they?

279 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:42:42pm

re: #261 eddiespaghetti

eddiespaghetti -

Maybe - IF - the F-22 system can be made "Pilotless" with a 22 year old Ex - gamer in, say, Nevada flying it.
As - I assume - the current Administration is unwilling to do so, the answer is a resounding NO!

-S-

280 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:43:04pm

re: #270 goddessoftheclassroom

It's late and I'm tired. I'm not up to a debate. However, there is no such thing as "the Christian church:" since the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches split in 1054. The first Christians were Jewish. Christianity as defined in the New Testament does not call for the persecution of ANYONE. That antisemitism and persecution occurred throughout history I do not dispute (although I do question 2000 years); I do deny that such practice is inherent to Christianity.

Make it 1700 years, from Constantine onward. I don't care what the hebrew or greek scriptures "tell" the flock to do, it's the facts of what they did that matters.

Saying it's not in scripture doesn't make it not so.

281 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:44:41pm

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

My dad's got one. A friend of his was in Berlin when it went down, and he said his thoughts in order were:

1. It's the end of Communism. Oh my God.
2. I am so lucky to be standing here witnessing this, not just in my lifetime, but with my own eyes.
3. I don't have to do any Christmas shopping this year.

He put them in shadow boxes, with labels and a 'certificate of authenticity' he created himself.

That's funny. I like #3. We gave a piece to my wife's aunt and that's exactly what she did, put it in a shadow box.

282 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:44:54pm

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

Make it 1700 years, from Constantine onward. I don't care what the hebrew or greek scriptures "tell" the flock to do, it's the facts of what they did that matters.

Saying it's not in scripture doesn't make it not so.

As I said, I'm not up to a debate. I do not agree with you, and you do not agree with me. Let us go in peace.

283 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:45:15pm

re: #272 Boxy_brown

OK, I Know people who lived through it, I have been to Dachau... The idea that I want to "pretend it didn't happen" gets a big Fuck You from Boxy. Anything else you ignorant prick?

I apologize, it's evident that you have no grasp of the subject and it's not fair for me to continue pushing this issue with you.

Besides, it appears that you have reached an point that you have nothing to say, except base insults. Whoopee.

284 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:45:47pm

Here it is--just for you! Please watch oh please oh please!

Your text to link...

285 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:46:38pm

re: #278 OldLineTexan

Indeed, they aren't running about dousing heathens with holy water, are they?

No...they'd be a lot more fun if they did, though.

286 Unakite  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:47:37pm

re: #266 Dr. Shalit

SF Zionist -

Back in "the day" - those of Torah - Our Jews were also a pretty barbaric people. Pretty good militarily too. We have certainly "mellowed" over the years.
Islam can do the same certainly. The question is - will the rest of the World wait? - AND - can it afford to? There lies the RUB.

-S-

No, the question is, will the rest of the world keep making excuses? AND no, it cannot afford to.

287 Ateam  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:47:41pm

From time to time I need to mention my horrible English -- spelling, grammar, using wrong time verbs -- sorry so much for that.

To the point > meeting with murderer Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, meaning Mr. Gerry Adams is the same terrorist he was ever been.

288 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:47:53pm

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

Hey Walt--are you related to Isaac?
Get it? I'm trying to make you smile.

289 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:48:45pm

re: #286 Unakite

Unakite -

"Thanx" - That is all.

-S-

290 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:49:54pm

re: #288 katemaclaren

Hey Walt--are you related to Isaac?
Get it? I'm trying to make you smile.

I'm fine. And I am not drunk (as some above have suggested, I don't drink a bit), nor am I mad.

But thanks for the reminder, yes, I'll crack a smile, and take a deep breath.

Cheers.

291 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:49:54pm

OLT--That link was for YOU
Power to the Sheeple!

292 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:49:56pm

re: #283 Walter L. Newton


I apologize, it's evident that you have no grasp of the subject and it's not fair for me to continue pushing this issue with you.


So in other words you can't point out where the Bible instructs Christians to persecute Jews. Got cha.


Besides, it appears that you have reached an point that you have nothing to say, except base insults.


Call me a Holocaust denier and that's what you get unless you are within arms reach. It's - not - OK.

293 OldLineTexan  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:50:42pm

re: #291 katemaclaren

OLT--That link was for YOU
Power to the Sheeple!

Thanks, kate, but it just went to the thread ... can you give me a post number?

294 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:51:00pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

Ahhh. That's better. I think you are so witty--it's a side of you that I really enjoy.
Cheers back.

295 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:51:14pm

OK Everyone -

Too close to 12:00 AM EDST - "NyTol."

-S-

296 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:51:35pm

OLT
#284

297 OldLineTexan  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:51:43pm

re: #295 Dr. Shalit

OK Everyone -

Too close to 12:00 AM EDST - "NyTol."

-S-

G'nite, Doc.

298 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:54:49pm

re: #292 Boxy_brown

Call me a Holocaust denier and that's what you get unless you are within arms reach. It's - not - OK.

I'm dropping it. I don't want to argue with you any more. It has become non-productive, for that I am sorry. I don't agree with you, not in the slightest, but we have come to an stopping point.

299 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 8:55:04pm

re: #292 Boxy_brown

Boxy with moxy--where did you get that cute nic?
;-)
When I see "brown" I think of this
Your text to link...

Happy Easter!

300 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:00:15pm

re: #299 katemaclaren

Boxy with moxy--where did you get that cute nic?

It's from a silly cartoon, "Aqua Teen Hunger Force", Boxy Brown is the imaginary friend of one of the characters. "A-#1 duke of New York". I grew up in New York so I stumbled on that when registration was open. Thanks-

301 OldLineTexan  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:00:49pm

re: #300 Boxy_brown

It's from a silly cartoon, "Aqua Teen Hunger Force", Boxy Brown is the imaginary friend of one of the characters. "A-#1 duke of New York". I grew up in New York so I stumbled on that when registration was open. Thanks-

ATHF ... I like the Mooninites

302 stuiec  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:00:52pm

re: #267 Boxy_brown

Well, no, what you are saying is not the truth as I see it unless you can point out where the bible tells Christians to persicute Jews. If you can I will gladly shut right the hell up.

Here are a couple of passages that have been used for theological justification for the persecution of Jews.

John 8:39-47

39 Abraham is our father," they answered.

"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would[a] do the things Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 4 5 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

and

Revelation 2:8-11

8 To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

Revelation 3:7-13

7 To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

And when Martin Luther broke with Rome, he developed his own theory of why the Jews ought to be persecuted by Christians: On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543.

303 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:01:57pm

re: #298 Walter L. Newton

I don't agree with you, not in the slightest, but we have come to an stopping point.

Fair enough.

304 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:04:58pm

re: #300 Boxy_brown

I like it!

305 stuiec  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:05:00pm

re: #278 OldLineTexan

Indeed, they aren't running about dousing heathens with holy water, are they?

Religion is just a convenient proxy by which Irishmen divide between Irish descended from Irish and Irish descended from Scots. After all these centuries, the (Protestant) Scots-Irish are still considered foreigners.

306 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:06:21pm

re: #301 OldLineTexan

So, did you see it? ;-)

307 katemaclaren  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:13:24pm

Well, everyone, I really have to go to sleep before dawn! So goodnight and happy days. We're getting a ton of rain tomorrow--I'm glad I'm too old for Easter egg hunts. The last one I went to was about 15 years ago. I was covering it for the paper and when I got there at 9:20 a.m. (10 minutes before it was supposed to start--I couldn't find a place to park. By the time I parked and walked up to the park it was 9:35--the place was a WRECK--a few crying kids, a few angry ones, a few gloating ones--but NO more EGGS! All 3,000 eggs had been found, stepped on, or kicked down a ground hog hole with that five minutes. Cellophane Easter grass, in those true-to-nature colors like pink, orange, blue and green was strewn over the entire park. I reallllly wish I had a video of the start of that hunt! I could have won the America's Funniest Home Video competition.

308 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:23:03pm

re: #302 stuiec

Here are a couple of passages that have been used for theological justification for the persecution of Jews.

Yikes... Bible studies... Whelp, it looks like pretty thin stuff to be basing an argument for persecuting the Jews, especially considering Christ was a Jew talking to Jews. I submit to you that the people who seek out spinets of text as justification for their actions are ignoring the larger context of the work are just looking for an excuse to behave in a way that is fundamentally against the broader teachings. I will admit though, that someone who wanted to hate could probably find some passages to use as a fig-leaf for their actions.

309 stuiec  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:41:35pm

re: #308 Boxy_brown

Yikes... Bible studies... Whelp, it looks like pretty thin stuff to be basing an argument for persecuting the Jews, especially considering Christ was a Jew talking to Jews. I submit to you that the people who seek out spinets of text as justification for their actions are ignoring the larger context of the work are just looking for an excuse to behave in a way that is fundamentally against the broader teachings. I will admit though, that someone who wanted to hate could probably find some passages to use as a fig-leaf for their actions.

You would admit that Martin Luther making an extended argument that Jews are liars deserving of persecution would carry some weight in Christian Northern Europe of his time, wouldn't you?

As far as the use of fig leaves by people predisposed to anti-Semitism and seeking a Scriptural justification -- Google 'synagogue of satan' and check the first link (should be to the domain 'antichristconspiracy'). You'll find some sick stuff that would have been considered mainstream perhaps up to the late 18th century -- and later, in some places. Apparently it was good enough to justify things like the expulsions of Jews from England and Spain, the ghettoization of Jews in much of Europe, and various pogroms and local genocides over the centuries.

In 2000, I went on a vacation trip to Ferrara, Italy, with my oldest two daughters, who were 11 and 9 at the time. We visited the Jewish quarter -- during the time of the Spanish expulsion in 1498, the Duke of Este, ruler of Ferrara, invited the Spanish and Portuguese Jews to come live as free men in his city. That arrangement lasted until the Papal forces conquered Emilia-Romagna and instituted the ghetto for the Jews, building an iron gate to lock them in at night (on penalty of death). When Napoleon conquered the area, the gates of the ghetto were taken down -- but they were rebuilt after Napoleon's fall and the reconquest by the Papal States. Only with the establishment of the Italian Kingdom were the ghetto gates permanently opened. The Jewish Museum in Ferrara's synagogue currently exhibits the only set of ghetto keys not in the Vatican's own collection; the ghettoes being officially established by the Roman Catholic Church, the keys to all the gates belonged to the Church, which graciously loaned that one set to the Ferrara Jewish Museum.

310 dkorta  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:44:22pm

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

Make it 1700 years, from Constantine onward. I don't care what the hebrew or greek scriptures "tell" the flock to do, it's the facts of what they did that matters.

Saying it's not in scripture doesn't make it not so.

As a student of history ( I assume), you should be aware that the original Christians were mainly Jews. At the time, they were considered a sect by the Jews, who were then a fairly formidable force in the Roman Empire. And as a minority sect, Christians were occasionally treated harshly by some in the Jewish society from which they sprang. People, being people, remember these things.

Your anger at the fact that the Jews have been badly mistreated by elements of Christian society for the last 17 centuries or so should be addressed to someone who has been alive the entire time. To my knowledge, that includes no one who posts here.

311 Ateam  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:54:32pm

re: #307 katemaclaren

Well, everyone, I really have to go to sleep before dawn! So goodnight and happy days. We're getting a ton of rain tomorrow--I'm glad I'm too old for Easter egg hunts. The last one I went to was about 15 years ago. I was covering it for the paper and when I got there at 9:20 a.m. (10 minutes before it was supposed to start--I couldn't find a place to park. By the time I parked and walked up to the park it was 9:35--the place was a WRECK--a few crying kids, a few angry ones, a few gloating ones--but NO more EGGS! All 3,000 eggs had been found, stepped on, or kicked down a ground hog hole with that five minutes. Cellophane Easter grass, in those true-to-nature colors like pink, orange, blue and green was strewn over the entire park. I really wish I had a video of the start of that hunt! I could have won the America's Funniest Home Video competition.

Two nights ago, while celebrating Passover night, I gave my youngest nephews a present reassemble on Biology, Evolution, Way of life ways.
It's went Right.

312 RebelDebater  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 9:55:23pm

re: #308 Boxy_brown

Yes the point is....there is support for anti-semitism in scripture that Christians HAVE used throughout history to persecute Jews...that is a simple, indisputable fact. It is part of Christian history to persecute Jews and they DID most DEFINITELY foster and foment anti-semitism. Christians today use the bible all the time to justify anti-semitism...so I don't really see where the arguing is here?!

P.S. My personal belief is that no one should be surprised by ignorant hate coming from people who believe in these fairy tales...

313 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 10:42:43pm

Walter L. Newton,

And the Irish Republican Army is religiously Catholic? Yes, no?

No. Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams are the political wing of the Official IRA, which is avowedly Marxist.

I don't know how "religious extremists sharing tips" is applicable here.

314 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 10:51:05pm

re: #313 Dirk Diggler

Walter L. Newton,

No. Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams are the political wing of the Official IRA, which is avowedly Marxist.

I don't know how "religious extremists sharing tips" is applicable here.

Agreed. "Catholic" to the IRA is a gang color.

315 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:00:25pm

Gerry Adams is a POS.

316 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:00:38pm
317 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:02:24pm

Occasional Reader,

Long time, no chat. How's life been treating you?

318 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:12:38pm
319 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:24:48pm

re: #317 Dirk Diggler

Occasional Reader,

Long time, no chat. How's life been treating you?

Okily dokily. But... Going to bed.

320 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:32:46pm

Occasional Reader,

Okily dokily. But... Going to bed.

Have a good one.

321 Boxy_brown  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:40:17pm

re: #309 stuiec
Forgive the gap, I had to take a walk.

You would admit that Martin Luther making an extended argument that Jews are liars deserving of persecution would carry some weight in Christian Northern Europe of his time, wouldn't you?


I would say that it would have been more damaging to European Jews after the reformation. Luther's first target was Catholicism but yes, he was a ranting antisemite as well.

As far as the use of fig leaves by people predisposed to anti-Semitism and seeking a Scriptural justification -- Google 'synagogue of satan' and check the first link (should be to the domain 'antichristconspiracy').


You know it's a reeeeealy happening Friday night for me when I am reading the best works of Benjamin H. Freedman. ("An insider in the world Zionist conspiracy") Thanks stuiec, you introduce me to the nicest, most well adjusted folks.

"Apparently it was good enough to justify things like the expulsions of Jews from England and Spain"


Or could it have been an excuse (Fig leaf) to do so because Jews could lend money with interest and Christians couldn't? Becoming a threat to the political establishment... That seems to be the prevailing explanation as to why they got along better in northern protestant Europe where Christians could make loans with interest than Southern Catholic Europe where they couldn't. It's whythe Rothschild family was the target of such ire.

the ghettoes being officially established by the Roman Catholic Church, the keys to all the gates belonged to the Church,


Well, again, has the Catholic church always been true to the teachings of Christianity? More to the point, have Catholics in the church always behaved like good Christians? People can be creeps regardless whatever code they profess to have followed, be it Martin Luther, Benjamin Freedman or the Duke of Este. (Ive actually seen Ferrara by the way, not the gates but he museum. It's between Bologna and Venice.)
I am going to go from the specific to the broad if you don't mind. You have seen the people holding up the "John 3:16" signs at baseball games, right? They do that because it is considered the quintessence of the of the whole shebang: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish..."
When it is said that Jews are "Christ killers" it simply ignores the entire premise of the story, that God sent his son down to save humanity. ("The world") To try to pin the blame on one group of people. ANY one group of people renders the message that "Christ died for our sins" null and void. It simply becomes the "hate the Jews" religion or the "hate the Romans" religion. The story is that this gift to mankind was killed in the most brutal way imaginable by mankind. (Which is pretty much what we do) If it was Just the Pharisees responsible than it would be pretty easy on the rest of us and what would be the point?
When you put that in context with the rest of the story, the sermon on the mount, (Do un to others, turn the other cheek, judge not, lest ye be judged, yada yada...) It becomes obvious to anyone who cares to listen that this guy, this Jew, was not about ghettos or Zyklon B or any of the other rotten things that have been done whether in the name of Christianity or not. If "Christians" have said otherwise, well, they don't get it or more likely, they are just using it as a tool to manipulate the ignorant. Whether you believe it or not, what you do with it or don't is all up to you.
(Somewhere my grandmother is laughing at all this... hauling me away from Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner finally paid a dividend.)

That's all I got, happy Passover and Happy Easter.

322 wordsworth  Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:48:33pm

Yeah, just to reiterate the earlier comment someone made, the PLO and the IRA have been in bed for decades. The first intifadah had IRA support, and Arafats guerillas received some IRA training.

323 ashan  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 12:17:27am

re: #88 Colonel Panik

The IRA has been playing footsie with the Islamic terrorists since the 1970's. IRA Terrorists have trained with the PLO, the PLO has supplied them with weapons for years and recently the Israelis were tracking an IRA sniper who was attacking Israeli soldiers in Gaza. The car bomb was an IRA invention.

If you go to Belfast, in the Republican neighborhoods you will see murals denouncing Ariel Sharon and supporting the PLO/Fatah, and now probably, Hezbollah.

We know that the IRA trained PLO terrorists for years.
The most recent IRA involvement in PLO (Fatah) terror attacks was in 2002, at a checkpoint near Ofra in Samaria ("West Bank"), where 10 Israelis, including 3 civilians were murdered by an IRA agent or IRA contract killer with a bolt-action rifle.

Israel Defense Minister Ehud Barak was pushed very hard by anti-Israel agent Tony Blair to let terror leader Adams into Gaza, albeit not from the Israeli border. Barak, who is well-known for being a pushover, is the one who I would call responsible for this security fiasco. He could have said to Blair:
1. We'll let him in from the Rafah border on the condition that we arrest him and bring him to justice for his active support and training of PLO terrorists, who have murdered Israelis over the years.
2. We have the right to arrest him if the UK keeps threatening to arrest Israeli officials on trumped up "human rights" violations if they visit the UK.

324 Kiernan  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 1:05:56am

W-wow. I guess there are reasons I don't spend much time on LGF anymore.
And this thread would be an obvious example.

Maybe one or two of you could actually read a history of Ireland, or possibly even use Google to have the tiniest bit of perspective regarding the hundreds of years and millions of lives involved in Ireland's struggles?


Anti-Catholic bias? Check.
Self-important demagogues? Check.
Profanity laced screeds? Check.

Okay, I think you get the idea.

Have fun talking amongst yourselves.

325 hellosnackbar  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 3:14:59am

Re#313 dirk diggler,
The official IRA were a Marxist organisation whose goal was a communist
all Ireland republic.
The provisional IRA was an organisation set up in the sixties when catholics demanded fair treatment from a protestant ascendancy which blatantly discriminated against them (quite justified).
However a new organisation appeared (the provos)which milked the catholic identity and squashed the officials by bullying and killing them.
TheBritish army were sent in and unfortunately on that fateful sunday a belligerent crowd faced a battalion of paratroopers(trained in belligerence).
It is said that MartinMcGuinness fired a shot in the direction of the paras
and reflexly they fired back killing a few demonstrators.
McGuinness has always denied this but if he didn't ;he knows who did.
This one event generated immense sympathy especially from the erzatz
"IRISH" in America who organised funding for them to continue what was
a long campaign of murder and intimidation.
The provos morphed into very sophisticated urban terrorists linking with ETA,PLO,FARC,etc.
The British government would have been quite happy to cede NI to Ireland but that would have ment betraying "the Protestants"(British citizens) and seen to capitulate to a bunch of criminal murderers.
As long as the protestants were in a majority there was no possibility.
Furthermore many catholics didn't want a united Ireland as the republic was demonstably poorer than now.
Eventually the IRA realised that they could never win(911 saw to that)
and joined the political process.
The loyalist terrorists also saw there was no future in futher activity.
That leaves only mad diehards like the "real IRA" and the "continuity IRA
who have recently murdered three people.(two soldiers waiting for a pizza delivery).
Martin McGuinness to his credit has called them traitors.
What Adams is up to with this statement of Hamas support is a puzzle.
Hamas demanding a quid pro quo for past solidarity?
Adams as a former terrorist assuming the role of negotiater between
Hamas and Israel?(very fanciful but then Adams is a narcissist).
The most likely explanation is that Adams is simply joining the disgusting
throng of leftist idiots who have added antisemitism to their unholy
ideology.
Either way one should never forget that Adams is a POS with blood on his hands.

326 po8crg  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 4:24:15am

#325 has it pretty much right.

The honest description of pIRA/Sinn Féin is ex-terrorists.

Their real objective was a single Irish state. Northern Ireland contains about a million people who don't want to be in an Irish state; they want to be (and are) British. The million Brits (mostly Protestant) in Northern Ireland oppressed the three-quarters-of-a-million Catholics there. In the sixties, there was a civil rights movement asking for equal treatment for the Catholics. The pIRA exploited that movement.

Ultimately, they got civil rights but didn't get the majority of the people in Northern Ireland forced into a country they didn't want to be in.

There is, for me, a really important lesson - terrorists often exploit a legitimate grievance; it's worth resolving a legitimate grievance even if it ends up giving a terrorist one of the things they say they want. If you do, you cut the ground from under the terrorists. That's the other half (as well as 911) of why pIRA had to give up - the Catholics in NI stopped supporting them because they knew that a United Ireland was impossible and they knew that they'd be treated fairly in NI now, unlike in the 1950s.

The ordinary Palestinian is legitmately pissed off at his crappy life. They'll stop backing Hamas when that life isn't crappy. The problem is that it's Hamas that's making their life crappy and they haven't noticed that yet.

327 Bradley F  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 4:59:00am

Q: What do you get when you cross a Member of Hamas with a member of Sinn Fein?

A: A Class 'AAA' firebomber with an interest in pints, fags, Glasgow Celtic football club and starting scraps on Patrick Street at three in the morning.

328 harrisonp  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 9:41:26am

i've been reading the site a while, but never got a cohesive idea of what LGF's stance on what to actually do with the palestinians is.

329 Jimmah  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 10:15:47am

re: #324 Kiernan

W-wow. I guess there are reasons I don't spend much time on LGF anymore.
And this thread would be an obvious example.

Maybe one or two of you could actually read a history of Ireland, or possibly even use Google to have the tiniest bit of perspective regarding the hundreds of years and millions of lives involved in Ireland's struggles?

Anti-Catholic bias? Check.
Self-important demagogues? Check.
Profanity laced screeds? Check.

Okay, I think you get the idea.

Have fun talking amongst yourselves.

Persecution complex? Check.
Ad Hominem? Check.
Whining about the occasional swearie? Check.
Nothing of substance to contribute? Check!

330 JamesG  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 11:47:24am

Sinn Fein being called religious extremists?

Charles, you are going off the deep end. They are about as Religious as a Bill Mahr. You are starting to come of as bad a propagandist as those you berate. You will spin any story to fit your view no matter how ridiculous. LGF used to be a great site to keep informed on things outside of the MSM, now it just seems to be a place to rant and rave. You are losing your objectivity. It seems you want to be right and to argue more than to use real logic and facts. Its just disappointing.

331 loup-garou  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 1:09:53pm

The IRA have been working with Islamic fundies for years.
i recall reading about a IRA sniper operating in Iraq and picking off Americans back in 05

332 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 1:19:06pm

I found an interesting article about the history of IRA-PLO ties on Jpost.

333 charles_martel  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 1:27:20pm

This is nothing new for the IRA. Where do you think they got all their explosives in the 70's? Libya.

334 Dirk Diggler  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 1:46:15pm

hellosnackbar,

Sinn Fein has been drifting leftwards since the 1960's. "Wealth re-distribution" and "economic equality" are called out in their political platform. Nary a mention of anything religious. Nothing about making Catholicism the official religion of Ireland, placing Ireland under the rule of the Pope, or expelling non-Catholics.

Ultimately neither the Provisionals (which are primarily motivated by Irish nationalism), nor the Official IRA (which are avowedly Marxist), nor the Real IRA (which are nothing more than criminals) have religious motivations. To characterize these organizations, any of them, as "religious extremists" is flat out wrong.

335 Obsidiandog  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 5:21:29pm

re: #73 researchok

Don't forget, Gerry Adams is banned from entering the US- terror ties.

I wonder how long that will last during this administration

336 EE  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 7:10:11pm

Hamas has not done a thing to help the Palestinians live a better life. Its efforts have only been to murder and terrorize Jews.

It should be clear to anyone that helping Hamas in no way means helping the Palestinians to live better.

It may be that the IRA terrorists foresee that states are involved in creating a Hamas-dominated Palestinian state, which would be a terrorist irredentist state dedicated to continual war against Israel. It may be that they would like to get involved in getting a piece of that action, perhaps seeing that they have something to offer militarily for which they could be rewarded. A Hamaside state could offer others lots of opportunities for providing arms, training, explosives and ammo, and for being well paid for it. As for funding, even the Obama administration has offered Hamas-ruled Gaza hundreds of millions of dollars, and much of that is going to provide a slush fund for Hamas for purchasing the means of war and terrorism.

337 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 7:49:19pm

re: #330 JamesG

Sinn Fein being called religious extremists?

Charles, you are going off the deep end. They are about as Religious as a Bill Mahr. You are starting to come of as bad a propagandist as those you berate. You will spin any story to fit your view no matter how ridiculous. LGF used to be a great site to keep informed on things outside of the MSM, now it just seems to be a place to rant and rave. You are losing your objectivity. It seems you want to be right and to argue more than to use real logic and facts. Its just disappointing.

This is a good one.

Oh no! Sinn Fein aren't "religious extremists" at all! Those thousands of bombings, murders, and people tortured to death were for a real cause! Not for religious extremism.

I'll try to get back to logic soon, so I can understand how the IRA had nothing to do with religion.

338 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 7:50:29pm

And now we have people at LGF defending the IRA, even when they hold talks with Hamas.

Are we having fun yet?

339 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 8:06:00pm

re: #330 JamesG

Disgusting! The IRA has nothing but blood on their hands- the blood of innocent people, and you're berating Charles? I think your priorities in who you should be focusing on here are extremely skewed.

340 stuiec  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 8:25:33pm

re: #321 Boxy_brown

Here is a bold statement, tell me whether you believe it is more true than false or more false than true:

Until the 19th Century -- possibly the 20th -- not many Christians religious scholars or institutions showed much interest in defending Jews and Judaism from the scurrilous people who twisted Christian Scripture, principles and institutions for anti-Semitic purposes or for purposes of demonizing Jews for political and economic gain.

341 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 8:28:15pm

Saying a person is anti-Catholic because they don't support the IRA is like saying a person can't be a Christian if they accept evolution. Screw you JamesG!

342 Salamantis  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 8:29:27pm

This link's for Boxy:

[Link: www.christianhistorytimeline.com...]

343 stuiec  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 8:41:30pm

re: #337 Charles

This is a good one.

Oh no! Sinn Fein aren't "religious extremists" at all! Those thousands of bombings, murders, and people tortured to death were for a real cause! Not for religious extremism.

I'll try to get back to logic soon, so I can understand how the IRA had nothing to do with religion.

Sinn Fein and the IRA have as much to do with Catholic extremism as the PLO and Fatah in the 1970s had to do with Islamic extremism.

Catholicism in Northern Ireland is a rough indicator of one's ancestry as Irish Irish, and Protestantism is a rough indicator of Scots Irish descent. The radicals among the Irish Irish of Northern Ireland have hated the Scots Irish since the latter were brought over to colonize Ireland for the British crown. The IRA killed Orangemen because they deemed them "invaders" with "no right to the land," on exactly the same basis on which the PLO and various secular terror groups attacked Israelis.

And, in fact, in the 1970s the PLO and the IRA had extensive connections and gave each other mutual support, as in this mural: PLO-IRA One Struggle.

Sinn Fein embracing Hamas has much more to do with their reflexive hatred of Israel going back decades and their view that Hamas, not Fatah, currently represents the active segment of the valiant struggle to destroy the invader state. Not everyone who supports religious extremist murderers is a religious extremist: sometimes they're secular opportunists taking advantage of the religious extremists' willingness to murder a common enemy, and sometimes they're political extremists who feel the religious extremists are acting in a way that reinforces their political ideology.

And the kicker in this is that if the IRA represented a religious agenda, it might be possible to defuse it through an appeal to shared Christian values between Catholics and Protestants -- but as they represent an agenda of ethnic cleansing and giving back to the Scots Irish the oppression that the Irish Irish suffered under British rule, religious arguments have had and will have no effect on them.

344 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 8:49:54pm

re: #343 stuiec

Don't they use religion to target their enemies?

345 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 8:51:10pm

re: #343 stuiec

Sinn Fein and the IRA have as much to do with Catholic extremism as the PLO and Fatah in the 1970s had to do with Islamic extremism.

I'm half Irish. Sorry, but it's ludicrous to try to argue that religion wasn't part of the Troubles.

346 stuiec  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 9:28:33pm

re: #345 Charles

I'm half Irish. Sorry, but it's ludicrous to try to argue that religion wasn't part of the Troubles.

"Part of" or "driving force"?

Europe has seen plenty of wars driven by the religious divide between Catholics and Protestants. Do you feel that what drove Sinn Fein and the IRA to murder, maim and terrorize Protestants in Northern Ireland was a desire to force those Protestants to accept the Pope as the infallible representative of God on Earth? Or was it something less lofty and more prosaic, like they wanted to put those descendants of interlopers in their proper place as a minority within a united Ireland?

A thought exercise: if the Orangemen had all converted to Catholicism a hundred years ago but retained their pride in Orange history, would they not have been targeted by Republicans because of their religious harmony?

One Sunday morning, as I was going to Mass,
I met a bloody Orangeman and killed him for his past,
Killed him for his past and sent his soul to Hell,
And when he got there he'd a strange tale to tell.

Chorus: Falderaddle-rye, Falderaddle-rye,
Falderaddle-rye-raddy,
There's whiskey in the jar.

When an Orangeman dies and his toes turn cold,
The worms'll have his body and the Devil has his soul,
The Devil he's a-laughing, a-singing out for joy,
'I've a warm spot picked out for you, me bold Orange boy!'

If I had two yards of an Orangeman's skin,
I'd make it into drums for the bold Fenian Men,
The drums they would rattle, the fifes they would play,
And we'd all go to Mass on Saint Patrick's Day.

347 stuiec  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 9:37:23pm

re: #344 Sharmuta

Don't they use religion to target their enemies?

Irish Republicans use religion to tell who belongs to the enemy tribe and who doesn't. As do the the Unionists. They aren't engaged in a struggle to convert the other side to a particular confessional view.

By contrast, Hamas believes that they are serving the Islamic faith by struggling to reacquire Muslim land for the Dar-al-Islam.

348 Boxy_brown  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 9:49:51pm

re: #340 stuiec

Ill go with the "more true than false" option stuiec. Sorry, I wasn't around to set them straight.

re: #342 Salamantis

It is easy to see how grievously Christians in Germany erred in their support of Adolf Hitler, but we must be careful not to judge them as if they were somehow different from ourselves.

Well, yes and no. No; because some people don't hop on bandwagons and get sucked up into movements so easy or check their brains/humanity at the door and trust in some dear leader to follow to make everything better at the cost of the perennial scapegoat. Even in the time that we are referencing, the cultural climate and allowing for some elasticity for the concepts of "right" and "wrong" there are still some things that are unequivocally wrong. Be it Einzatsgruppen or aircraft full of people being flown into buildings full of people or My Lai, etc. To say otherwise is to wallow in the same moral equivalence that says that everything is contextual.

Yes; because in the sense that cruelty is a part of human nature and we need to recognize it in ourselves. That's not peculiar to any specific philosophy/people/theology/geography though. Rwanda, Armenia, Sudan, Cambodia, on and on and on... bear that out. It's entirely true that some philosophies/people/theologies are congruent with and encourage the brutality and inhumanity that people of good will try to suppress. I submit though, that the people who have used Christianity as an excuse to to allow the worst aspects of their nature free reign have entirely missed the point of the whole exercise.

Nothing like a nice loooong debate on religion to ratchet up the personal discomfort, eh?

349 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 9:50:18pm

re: #346 stuiec

"Part of" or "driving force"?

Who said "driving force?" Not me. But since you brought it up, I would definitely call religion a driving force in that mess. And I don't need to quote James Joyce to explain why.

350 stuiec  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 10:24:15pm

re: #349 Charles

Who said "driving force?" Not me. But since you brought it up, I would definitely call religion a driving force in that mess. And I don't need to quote James Joyce to explain why.

Then I guess we differ on the definition of "religious extremists." I think of religious extremists as people who push an extremist agenda -- up to and including terrorism and murder -- from a religious, doctrinal motivation, like Hamas and like the Society of St. Pius X.

I see Sinn Fein and the IRA (and the Provos and the 'Real IRA') as pushing an extremist agenda based on a tribal identity that happens to fall along sectarian lines. Even though the Pope denounces Irish Republican terrorism as he does Lefebvrite extremism, I don't think the Republicans commit terrorism out of a conviction that they are better Catholics than the Pope or the true heirs of the true teachings of the true Church.

I think it's easier to fight a disease when you diagnose it accurately. Is my diagnosis wrong?

351 Zimriel  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 11:27:17pm

Okay, since I seem to be getting called out for a "no true Scotsman" fallacy... I will eat crow and say that, yes, I have found the IRA to be riddled with religious extremists. Many of them are secular; but many of the rest are near-schismatic reactionaries. What I find in Ireland is the Bishops attacking the IRA, and local priests ignoring the Bishops. They are all living in a Mel Gibson dreamworld.

For background, I am a convert to Catholicism, and British. I hate the IRA. They bombed train stations in London when I was there. There is NO WAY I would have chosen this faith if I thought that the Church was involved in terrorism - that it was a Latinate caliphate, declaring jihads against the sectarians.

Unfortunately the Church's stance against terrorist activity doesn't always stop individual Catholics from committing grave sins - especially if they're surrounded by like-minded haters.

I find that there have been Catholic priests involved in IRA terror. Father Jim Chesney helped carry out the Claudy bombing 31 July 1972. Bobby Sands, a convicted IRA man, was also a Catholic.

This should not be a surprise. There have also been Catholic priests involved in "liberation theology" movements in the Third World, which have led to socialist uprisings there. And, I've already mentioned the Ustasche.

These people do not see the Church the way I see her. I see the Church as an organisation of people who follow a universal standard of human happiness on Earth. These people -including local Irish priests - seem to be using the Church as a marker for some crude ethnic identity. Bobby Sands himself was given a choice to be obedient to his Bishop and devout to the Cause; he chose the Cause. Martin MacGuinness preferred to attend a Gaelic mass than to listen to his Bishop denounce him in English. I could find other examples if I weren't so depressed to continue.

I think, and I think most Catholics agree with me, that Croat paramilitaries and the IRA are an embarrassment. They certainly do not help us in any way. If I were in the hierarchy, I would recommend the Church demand their repentance of violence and of support for violence; under threat of excommunication.

352 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 12:07:52am

re: #341 Sharmuta

Saying a person is anti-Catholic because they don't support the IRA is like saying a person can't be a Christian if they accept evolution. Screw you JamesG!

JamesG's point was not to absolve the IRA or to associate Catholicism with support for the IRA. JamesG, when you cut the anti-LGF insults, said this : "Sinn Fein being called religious extremists?...They are about as Religious as a Bill Mahr."

JamesG was trying to absolve religion of association with the IRA. Like I was - and you didn't tell me "screw you"...

JamesG does however deserve downdings just for insulting LGF, which he was given no right to do; and for not going to the 'Web on the topics of Church involvement in the IRA, which by that point in the argument should have been done by all involved. (I suspect Charles has some devastating evidence at hand, although as per his usual style he's been letting the trolls stew in their preconceptions rather than trouncing them outright with this evidence.)

Posts 325-6 are good summaries of the Leftist, atheist faction of the "Republican" side; but they should know that, sadly, there is also a Catholic faction. The good news for the rest of us Catholics is that the pro-IRA priests are acting outside Church authority. The bad news is that the Church has been too lenient about these thugs in frocks.

353 Dirk Diggler  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 12:42:44am

Zimriel,

Martin MacGuinness preferred to attend a Gaelic mass than to listen to his Bishop denounce him in English.

Martin MacGuinness joined the Marxist wing of the IRA before switching sides to the Provisional IRA (PIRA) in 1970. MacGuinness claims he was "confused" at the time. Personally I'm convinced he's still Marxist to the core.

After all, the infiltration and radicalization of existing social structures, particularly labor unions and political organizations, is a common tactic of Marxist revolutionaries.

354 Kiernan  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 12:53:26am

re: #329 Jimmah

Persecution complex? Check.
Noting anti-Catholic bias in the many posts above doesn't mean I have a persecution complex.

Ad Hominem? Check.
Argumentum ad hominem? No. That's like when you don't like Hillary's politics, so you call her fat. You might not be fat.

Whining (sic) about the occasional swearie (sic)? Check.
I wasn't "whining". Ross Perot whined about "swearing" in the Navy.
The posts above speak for themselves.

Nothing of substance to contribute? Check!
My contribution to this thread is that I am pointing out the inferior writing and reasoning abilities, along with the religious hatred, of the people who have no clue about the Irish Republican struggle, yet feel compelled to
inflict their short comings on this important blog.

Thanks for responding.
A-and, have a Happy Easter.


355 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 12:55:20am

re: #354 Kiernan

There is no "anti-Catholic" bias here. Just an anti-terrorist bastards bias.

356 bullskin  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 2:30:30am

One of those few convicted for the M11 in Spain was caught in jail with ETA terrorists phone numbers in his pocket.
But of course, ETA with a death toll now of 943 had nothing to do. Didn't they?.

357 StillAMarine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 3:38:16am

Gerry Adams and Ismail Haniyeh together in Gaza?
One well placed Israeli bomb would have gotten rid of two nuisances at once.

358 Jimmah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:24:38am

re: #354 Kiernan

Noting anti-Catholic bias in the many posts above doesn't mean I have a persecution complex.

You confuse anti-terrorist with anti-catholic.

Argumentum ad hominem? No. That's like when you don't like Hillary's politics, so you call her fat. You might not be fat.

I said 'ad hominem', no more than that. I was noting your insult directed at LGF posters, not suggesting you had committed a fallacy. You added 'argumentum' in order to create a strawman you could knock down. Silly, and of course, fallacious.

I wasn't "whining".

I'm afraid you were.

My contribution to this thread is that I am pointing out the inferior writing and reasoning abilities, along with the religious hatred, of the people who have no clue about the Irish Republican struggle, yet feel compelled to
inflict their short comings on this important blog.

You haven't made a single valid point. There is no religious hatred on show here, but there is a hatred and intolerance of terrorism. It doesn't matter how valid the original cause/struggle is, anyone who resorts to deliberately targetting innocent civilians and blowing them up is a terrorist. Most people here seem to be very clear on that.

359 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:30:00am

This is lovely.

Criticize creationists and they call you "anti-Christian."

Criticize the IRA, even when they're freaking meeting with Hamas, and they call you "anti-Catholic."

If I criticize a Michael Moore movie, maybe they'll call me "anti-cinema."

360 decaffeine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:05:22pm

I don't comment much and I haven't read the 350 + comments here, but connections between Islamic groups and the IRA are not new. Sinn Fein is basically a training and consulting company for bomb makers. They were involved with training the FARC in Colombia, the Madrid train bombers, Palestinian bomb makers and even a few in Iraq. This is how they fund their organization with a little help from the Castro brothers as well.

361 Joel  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:46:26pm

re: #124 Etaoin Shrdlu

IRA-PLO cooperation: A long, cozy relationship

Article last week in the Jerusalem Post.

Thanks so much for that article. Very chilling.


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