Press Release from DHS on ‘Right-Wing Extremism’ Report

The hyperventilating continues, and now the Department of Homeland Security has been forced to respond to the flood of distorted stories.

STATEMENT BY U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY JANET NAPOLITANO ON THE THREAT OF RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM

The primary mission of this department is to prevent terrorist attacks on our nation. The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States. I was briefed on the general topic, which is one that struck a nerve as someone personally involved in the Timothy McVeigh prosecution.

Let me be very clear: we monitor the risks of violent extremism taking root here in the United States. We don’t have the luxury of focusing our efforts on one group; we must protect the country from terrorism whether foreign or homegrown, and regardless of the ideology that motivates its violence.

We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist activity but we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs. We take seriously our responsibility to protect the civil rights and liberties of the American people, including subjecting our activities to rigorous oversight from numerous internal and external sources.

I am aware of the letter from American Legion National Commander Rehbein, and my staff has already contacted him to set up a meeting next week once I return from travel. I will tell him face-to-face that we honor veterans at DHS and employ thousands across the department, up to and including the Deputy Secretary.

As the department responsible for protecting the homeland, DHS will continue to work with its state and local partners to prevent and protect against the potential threat to the United States associated with any rise in violent extremist activity.

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379 comments

1 Mithrax  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:58:58am

Think it'll work?

2 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:59:13am
We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist man-caused disaster activity

FIFJ

(fixed it for Janet)

3 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:59:22am
The primary mission of this department is to prevent terrorist attacks on our nation.

Holy sh*t.

They said "terrorism."

4 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:00:09pm

The usual prescription for hyperventilation is a paper bag.

5 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:00:31pm

.....but we won't monitor the Mosques.

6 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:00:31pm

DHS (a pointless agency IMHO, but I thought that when Bush created it) could've been more up front with this by releasing a statement when the report first came out. As usual, for a government agency, they let the problem fester.

7 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:00:37pm

It's obviously a fake, she never would have said terrorism. /

8 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:01:04pm
We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist activity but we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs

I doubt this statement is literally true. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't "monitor ideology" to SOME extent, in the course of tracking possibly violent groups.

Anyway, it's good that DHS clarified.

9 nikis-knight  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:02:00pm

re: #3 Ben Hur

Holy sh*t.

They said "terrorism."


Someone hasn't been reading her memos.
Or else its okay to use if it isn't in regards to poor oppressed disater-causing minorities?

10 Gang of One  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:02:31pm

Fine and well, but was there another document that addressed "Left-wing extremism"?

11 brookly red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:02:33pm

re: #7 Mars Needs Neocons

It's obviously a fake, she never would have said terrorism. /

/ it is OK to use the word domestically...

12 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:03:39pm
13 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:03:40pm

re: #10 Gang of One

Fine and well, but was there another document that addressed "Left-wing extremism"?

I saw one in the spinoff links earlier today. It might be in the spinoff for the dead thread, or one of the threads from yesterday.

14 Oingo Boingo  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:03:49pm

I have to disagree with Charles on this one, and go with the AmLeg Commander.

Sorry.

15 alegrias  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:03:52pm

There was one man sporting a "Right Wing Extremist" sign at the Lafayette Square Tax Tea Party in DC. That was stupid, but his first amendment right.

16 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:04:00pm

Why do I think that if Janet was a Republican, and the report was about Leftwingers, the Lizards would be pleased as punch?

17 vagabond trader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:04:05pm

re: #3 Ben Hur

Apparently, it's acceptable to use the dread word when referring to right wing loons. The others are those who must not be offended.

18 jaunte  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:04:19pm

re: #10 Gang of One

Yes, Thanos posted a link in the spinoffs. The report was mostly concerned with leftist 'cyberterrorism.'

19 Salem  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:04:38pm

So there's hyperventilating and then there's approval, with nothing in between. Yeah, sure....

20 hebrewtoyou  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:05:01pm

re: #10 Gang of One
Yes, there was, but it very specific about naming actual threats from actual left-wing groups who resort to violence. ELF is one such example.

I think people are certainly exaggerating the chilling nature of the memo on right-wing extremism, but it does worry me that the document was issued without any specific groups or threats named.

Very peculiar.

21 jcbunga  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:05:09pm

It may be venting but when The One has to distance himself from his own department head's report I think a little venting is in order.

22 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:05:32pm

I just get the feeling that there is one group out there that is not being tracked, monitored, etc to this extent.

The primary mission of this department is to prevent terrorist attacks on our nation. The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States. I was briefed on the general topic, which is one that struck a nerve as someone personally involved in the Timothy McVeigh prosecution.

When I read that, I can't beleive they aren't speaking about Islamists.

Can we expect the DHS to reach out to these right wing radicals for cultural sensitivity training?

Will the FBI work hand in hand with these groups, or groups that support the right wing radicals to avoid any embarrassing situations, humiliations?

23 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:05:49pm

One thing is for sure; Lefties are using this report as "proof" that rightwingers are as big of a threat to America as Islamic Terrorists. I know this because just this morning I received a number of emails from Leftwing friends, linking to this report, trying to warn me that my views are dangerous and extreme. Also, among my friends on Facebook, this report is being referenced as proof that rightwingers are dangerous, crazy racist nuts.

And the timing of the release of this report with the Tea Parties today just further confirms this view.

24 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:05:54pm
25 alegrias  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:06:40pm

re: #8 Occasional Reader

I doubt this statement is literally true. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't "monitor ideology" to SOME extent, in the course of tracking possibly violent groups.

Anyway, it's good that DHS clarified.

* * * * *
Crack Congressional delegations visiting Fidel Castro last week saw no political dissidents whose ideology differed from Fidel & Raul's excellent socialist workers' paradise platform of red revolucion.

26 KingKenrod  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:07:24pm
We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist activity but we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs. We take seriously our responsibility to protect the civil rights and liberties of the American people, including subjecting our activities to rigorous oversight from numerous internal and external sources.

That's fine for the DHS.

But the report was prepared by the DHS and sent to local law enforcement, which may have completely different attitudes about the very broad spectrum of behavior mentioned in the report.

27 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:07:27pm

And my first gut reaction was, Militias are suddenly a problem again?

We haven't heard a thing about them for years?

28 vagabond trader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:08:33pm

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo

So, were you able to convince them that you aren't dangerous? I would never tolerate such an insult from a "friend."

29 Mithrax  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:08:35pm

re: #27 Ben Hur

And my first gut reaction was, Militias are suddenly a problem again?

We haven't heard a thing about them for years?

Yeah. Aside from one or two flare ups, pretty much 8 years or so, really.

30 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:09:22pm
As the department responsible for protecting the homeland, DHS will continue to work with its state and local partners to prevent and protect against the potential threat to the United States associated with any rise in violent extremist activity.

As it should be. I will oppose CAIR , right wingers and leftist animal rights nuts who try to obfuscate for extremists in their midst by seething over their hurt feelings. Public safety and the stability of the country take precedent over your political sensitivities. Too bad.

31 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:09:23pm
32 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:09:41pm

re: #27 Ben Hur

And my first gut reaction was, Militias are suddenly a problem again?

We haven't heard a thing about them for years?

Since the last time a Democrat held the Oval Office.

What a coincidence.

33 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:10:12pm

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo

That's my big question about this particular report.

Why was it released now? Regardless of what it says or does not say (reporters never really get into reports like this, they prefer sound bites), why was it released now since it was apparently commissioned back in 2008 or 2007?

Releasing it now, as opposed to earlier, seems to be more of a political stunt by the administration.

34 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:11:25pm

re: #20 hebrewtoyou

Yes, there was, but it very specific about naming actual threats from actual left-wing groups who resort to violence. ELF is one such example.

I think people are certainly exaggerating the chilling nature of the memo on right-wing extremism, but it does worry me that the document was issued without any specific groups or threats named.

Very peculiar.

Was that the one from the Dept of Energy?

35 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:11:55pm

re: #16 american sabra

Why do I think that if Janet was a Republican, and the report was about Leftwingers, the Lizards would be pleased as punch?

Pardon me for saying so, but I find this comment quite disingenuous.

Anyone talking extremism on any side of the fence doesn't please me in the slightest.

36 gander  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:12:07pm

I say let them be on the defensive this time.

37 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:12:13pm

I don't question the report or the fact it was begun last year. I question the timing of the release. This was specifically given to the press so they could all say, "Ignore all the protests, it's just a bunch of marginalized lunatic fringe right wingers". It isn't a coincidence that it was released the week of the tea parties.

38 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:12:16pm

re: #33 Honorary Yooper

That's my big question about this particular report.

Why was it released now? Regardless of what it says or does not say (reporters never really get into reports like this, they prefer sound bites), why was it released now since it was apparently commissioned back in 2008 or 2007?

Releasing it now, as opposed to earlier, seems to be more of a political stunt by the administration.

It appears to have been leaked.
And to coin a phrase, yes, I question the timing.

39 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:12:18pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I will oppose CAIR , right wingers and leftist animal rights nuts

Will you oppose "left-wngers", too?

40 vagabond trader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:12:37pm

re: #25 alegrias

Useful idiots, completely oblivious to the racism and oppression of the Castro regime.

41 anchors_aweigh  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:12:58pm

Manet rocks.

42 KingKenrod  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:13:14pm

re: #33 Honorary Yooper

That's my big question about this particular report.

Why was it released now? Regardless of what it says or does not say (reporters never really get into reports like this, they prefer sound bites), why was it released now since it was apparently commissioned back in 2008 or 2007?

Releasing it now, as opposed to earlier, seems to be more of a political stunt by the administration.

Well, it was leaked, not released to the public. However, since an incident from early April is mentioned in the report, it was certainly sent from DHS within the last 10 days.

43 Gang of One  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:13:26pm

re: #20 hebrewtoyou

Yes, there was, but it very specific about naming actual threats from actual left-wing groups who resort to violence. ELF is one such example.

I think people are certainly exaggerating the chilling nature of the memo on right-wing extremism, but it does worry me that the document was issued without any specific groups or threats named.

Very peculiar.

Yes, I recall now that Thanos had posted a spin-off and that it was specific to those groups -- This current report seems to take all right-wing/conservative/libertarian ideology as a threat, not just groups suchas KKK, Aryan Nations, etc. Wonder if the DHS would pursue agents such as MeCha and the Aztlanistas ... La Raza, and their ilk?

44 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:13:28pm

re: #35 MrSilverDragon

Pardon me for saying so, but I find this comment quite disingenuous.

Anyone talking extremism on any side of the fence doesn't please me in the slightest.

One thing I will say; the report seems awfully heavy on the speculation side, rather light on the actual evidence side.

45 markx  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:13:52pm

Hang on, here we go, Round 2.

46 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:14:00pm

re: #20 hebrewtoyou


but it does worry me that the document was issued without any specific groups or threats named.

It worries me also, because this administration is expert in post modernist rhetorical gymnastics.

They can make anything mean whatever they want it to.

47 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:14:27pm

re: #5 Ben Hur

.....but we won't monitor the Mosques.


Good point Ben!

48 vagabond trader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:14:28pm

Chicago politics.

49 AZDave  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:14:30pm

Believe me when I say Arizona's lose was not America's gain.

50 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:14:57pm

re: #35 MrSilverDragon

Pardon me for saying so, but I find this comment quite disingenuous.

Anyone talking extremism on any side of the fence doesn't please me in the slightest.

The problem isn't with extremists per se, its with a particular political administration characterizing fairly moderate opposition views as "extremist".

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with this Homeland security view.

Its NOT "extremist" to protest massive unprecedented and hugely wasteful gov't spending.

51 sfcmac  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:15:06pm

Charles,
"...distorted stories..." Really? DID YOU READ THE DHS DOCUMENT? It's impossible to take it out of context.
The following are excerpts:
(U//LES) "Rightwing extremists are harnessing this historical election as a recruitment tool. Many rightwing extremists are antagonistic toward the new presidential administration and its perceived stance on a range of issues, including immigration and citizenship, the expansion of social programs to minorities, and restrictions on firearms ownership and use. Rightwing extremists are increasingly galvanized by these concerns and leverage them as drivers for recruitment. From the 2008 election timeframe to the present, rightwing extremists have capitalized on related racial and political prejudices in expanded propaganda campaigns, thereby reaching out to a wider audience of potential sympathizers."
Didja get that? If you have problems with Obama’s tax/spend/bailout, and his pusillanimous foreign policy (pandering to America’s enemies), then you’re a "racist".
Assigning a thinly-veiled “threat label” to Tea Party and bailout protesters:
(U//FOUO) "Rightwing extremist chatter on the Internet continues to focus on the economy, the perceived loss of U.S. jobs in the manufacturing and construction sectors, and home foreclosures. Anti-Semitic extremists attribute these losses to a deliberate conspiracy conducted by a cabal of Jewish “financial elites.” These “accusatory” tactics are employed to draw new recruits into rightwing extremist groups and further radicalize those already subscribing to extremist beliefs. DHS/I&A assesses this trend is likely to accelerate if the economy is perceived to worsen."
If you support getting American citizenship the legal way:
(U//FOUO) "Over the past five years, various rightwing extremists, including militias and white supremacists, have adopted the immigration issue as a call to action, rallying point, and recruiting tool. Debates over appropriate immigration levels and enforcement policy generally fall within the realm of protected political speech under the First Amendment, but in some cases, anti-immigration or strident pro-enforcement fervor has been directed against specific groups and has the potential to turn violent."
And he’s reserved a section for animosity against military veterans:
(U//FOUO) "DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat. These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the capabilities of extremists—including lone wolves or small terrorist cells—to carry out violence. The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today."
Big Brother will keep an eye on dissent:
(U//FOUO) "DHS/I&A will be working with its state and local partners over the next several months to ascertain with greater regional specificity the rise in rightwing extremist activity in the United States, with a particular emphasis on the political, economic, and social factors that drive rightwing extremist radicalization".
If you raise hell over Obama's socialist policies, you're a "threat". Atrocities carried out by Islamic terrorists are now referred to as “man-caused disasters”, but apparently Bamster and company have no problem calling American war veterans, Americans opposed to illegal aliens, and Americans who support the 2nd Amendment, “terrorists”.
I’m an outspoken critic of Obama, an Iraq War/Army veteran, anti-illegal alien, and I’m a gun owner; therefore, I’m a “security threat” to the socialist regime in D.C. Given the intimidation tactics and extortion of taxpayers on the part of Obama’s authoritarian state, it’s obvious who the real terrorists are.
"Distorted" my ass.

52 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:15:07pm

re: #47 reloadingisnotahobby

Good point Ben!


You sound surprised!

53 Gang of One  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:15:23pm

re: #27 Ben Hur

And my first gut reaction was, Militias are suddenly a problem again?

We haven't heard a thing about them for years?

And the number of homeless will miraculously decrease?
/

54 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:15:46pm

So, does Andy McCarthy count as a "hyperventilating blogger?"
[Link: tinyurl.com...]

55 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:16:56pm

Don't think that they're not monitoring THIS site as a right wing nut site.

56 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:17:08pm

I can't see that Napolitanos statement cleared up much of anything.
The report that was 'leaked" talked about a lot of could be dangers from "one issue" extremists.
The only example used was McVeigh. I would really have like to have heard some more examples.

57 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:17:16pm

re: #52 Ben Hur

Not suprised.............

58 MarkX  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:17:23pm

Okay.

My predication …. 5 more lizards will be banned before this thread is closed.

59 Mithrax  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:17:49pm

re: #55 Ben Hur

Don't think that they're not monitoring THIS site as a right wing nut site.

*moons the monitors*

There we go, defiant AND classy! :P

60 brookly red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:17:53pm

re: #56 opnion

I can't see that Napolitanos statement cleared up much of anything.
The report that was 'leaked" talked about a lot of could be dangers from "one issue" extremists.
The only example used was McVeigh. I would really have like to have heard some more examples.

I think it may have made thing worse.

61 jaunte  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:18:27pm

re: #27 Ben Hur

And my first gut reaction was, Militias are suddenly a problem again?

We haven't heard a thing about them for years?

It may be similar to the way that the homeless become a bigger issue in the media under Republican administrations.

62 RaiderDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:18:35pm

Sorry Charles. I'm with Michelle Malkin on this one.

Again, think of the reaction of the MSM and the civil liberties left if the Bush Administration published a report on "left-wing extremists" in 2003 just before the start of anti-war protests...

Again. The report reads like a Southern Poverty Law Center press release.

63 Salem  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:18:50pm

Stop hyperventilating, you Nazis!

64 nikis-knight  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:19:23pm

Frankly, I don't like the use of the word extreme. Too subjective. As the politcal center continues to shift leftward I'm sure it won't be long until I'm extreme, in thought if not in action. Heck, Ward Cleaver is probably a right-wing extremist by the end of the Obama administration.

It is violent groups, right left or center, that need monitoring, or groups advocating violence. All the rest need to be left alone, apathetic, moderate, or extreme.

65 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:19:24pm

re: #35 MrSilverDragon

Well sir, you would be in the minority. In all the years I've read here, very few if any Republicans admit they have extremists in their midsts. Instead, they go to Zombie's blog, look at all the loonies dressed as horsies or teddy bears, others who wear the pally scarf or carry anti-Semitic signs and get all smug about it, because it's only THEM that are crazy loons, or dangerous crazy loons. It's never US. Seems like this DHS report is a reality check for the Right, but they won't admit it. Talk about disingeneous.

I'll stay a registered Independent awhile longer, thank you.

66 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:19:39pm

re: #60 brookly red

I think it may have made thing worse.

At least there would have been some foundation. This seems to me like a sheep herder having a wolf problem & getting prepared to fend off Polar Bears.

67 rb4269  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:19:46pm

Right wing militias are the same thing when the left is in power as the 'homeless' are when they are out of power - just one more rhetorical tool. What happened to all the hundreds of thousands of 'homeless' who reappeared when George Bush was elected? Even when mortgage foreclosures are at an all time high under a leftist administration there are no reports of homelessness. The spectre of militia extremism is a cue to the commercial news media to do their political duty and spread the meme and redirect peoples attention.

68 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:20:28pm

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo
I don't think the timing of the release was an accident, regardless of when the report was written.

69 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:20:46pm

re: #62 RaiderDan

Sorry Charles. I'm with Michelle Malkin on this one.

Again, think of the reaction of the MSM and the civil liberties left if the Bush Administration published a report on "left-wing extremists" in 2003 just before the start of anti-war protests...

Again. The report reads like a Southern Poverty Law Center press release.


An upding!

70 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:20:50pm

re: #67 rb4269

Right wing militias are the same thing when the left is in power as the 'homeless' are when they are out of power - just one more rhetorical tool. What happened to all the hundreds of thousands of 'homeless' who reappeared when George Bush was elected? Even when mortgage foreclosures are at an all time high under a leftist administration there are no reports of homelessness. The spectre of militia extremism is a cue to the commercial news media to do their political duty and spread the meme and redirect peoples attention.

Suddenly, soldiers are no longer committing suicide in record numbers. If at all.

71 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:21:03pm

re: #50 looking closely

The problem isn't with extremists per se, its with a particular political administration characterizing fairly moderate opposition views as "extremist".

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with this Homeland security view.

Its NOT "extremist" to protest massive unprecedented and hugely wasteful gov't spending.

I definitely agree with you on that, no question. My issue was with the particular post to which I was responding, and my perceived characterization from that post.

72 gander  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:21:03pm

We need a code word. Let's call - saying or thinking negative things about people and groups whom aren't left wing or politically correct - being an Alarmist or engaging in Alarmism. For example:
"That Yale professor is such an Alarmist."
"The current administration in Washington is engaging in Alarmism again."
"We are joining together to oppose Alarmism"
"The Daily Kos is an Alarmist hotbed."

73 KingKenrod  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:21:10pm

I think John Hinderaker has a good take on the document without venturing into wacko territory:

[Link: www.powerlineblog.com...]

74 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:21:13pm
We don’t have the luxury of focusing our efforts on one group.

Why does she consider "focusing on one group" to be a luxury?
Doesn't that mean that she is admitting that she would like to do just that if she could?

75 capitalist piglet  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:21:25pm

re: #15 alegrias

There was one man sporting a "Right Wing Extremist" sign at the Lafayette Square Tax Tea Party in DC. That was stupid, but his first amendment right.

I would have interpreted that as sarcasm. Do you think it may have been?

76 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:21:31pm

re: #62 RaiderDan

Again, think of the reaction of the MSM and the civil liberties left if the Bush Administration published a report on "left-wing extremists" in 2003 just before the start of anti-war protests...

Interesting comparison. But one correction; the report was leaked, not published.

Of course, it could have been deliberately leaked, etc.

77 meh130  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:22:00pm

Does anyone really believe the government is so incompetent it takes it a year or more to produce a 10-page report that is filled with nothing but generalizations, and containing no specifics?

Hinderaker took the lack of specifics to task. Malkin compared the detail devoid, 10-page right-wing report to the rich with specifics (to include names and logos) in the 40-page ecoterrorist report.

Neither Malkin's nor Hinderaker's stories were distorted. Hyperventilating, in the case of Malkin, might be in order. Certainly not with Hinderaker.

78 Daria Emmons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:22:02pm

This letter says nothing and does not answer any of the criticisms of the DHS Report.

79 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:22:14pm

re: #76 Occasional Reader

Interesting comparison. But one correction; the report was leaked, not published.

Of course, it could have been deliberately leaked, etc.

Isn't that the definition of leaked?

80 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:22:37pm

re: #15 alegrias

There was one man sporting a "Right Wing Extremist" sign at the Lafayette Square Tax Tea Party in DC. That was stupid, but his first amendment right.

If it's the one I saw, that label was below a portrait of George Washington. Definite sarcasm.

81 Archimedes  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:23:03pm

This is the part of that statement that is key:

We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist activity but we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs.

That strikes me as reasonable.

82 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:23:21pm

re: #79 Ben Hur

Isn't that the definition of leaked?

[shaking fist in impotent rage]

You know what I mean.

Could have been "leaked" on orders from Napolitano, etc.

83 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:23:22pm

I'm a little disappointed by the DHS reference to the recruitment of veterans. While I do understand that there are a few who would like to use their training and skills (e.g. Timothy McVeigh) to harm this country, the vast majority of folks who have served and are currently serving (myself included) are good, decent, loyal and patriotic Americans who are driven by a desire to serve their Country and their fellow man. From my experience, the vast majority of military folks are also fairly conservative but also accept President Obama as the legitimate CIC and as such owe him their loyalty and their lives if necessary. I'm not saying that there are military members who would like to take up with fringe organizations, I just wish that DHS (I'm a member of this department) would have parsed the wording a bit better and not given the impression that they were generalizing about veterans as a group.

84 AZDave  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:23:23pm

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo

One thing is for sure; Lefties are using this report as "proof" that rightwingers are as big of a threat to America as Islamic Terrorists. I know this because just this morning I received a number of emails from Leftwing friends, linking to this report, trying to warn me that my views are dangerous and extreme. Also, among my friends on Facebook, this report is being referenced as proof that rightwingers are dangerous, crazy racist nuts.

And the timing of the release of this report with the Tea Parties today just further confirms this view.

Don't need any DHS report on Leftwingers being a threat to America. That they are is by definition of Leftwingers.

85 brookly red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:23:32pm

re: #76 Occasional Reader

Interesting comparison. But one correction; the report was leaked, not published.

Of course, it could have been deliberately leaked, etc.

/well if they can't even keep their own documents safe...

86 Hawaii69  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:24:20pm

re: #10 Gang of One

Fine and well, but was there another document that addressed "Left-wing extremism"?

Yes, and both of these documents were intitated during the Bush administration.

They must have just come to the conclusion that
ELF torching Lincoln Navigators, while a crime, wasn't
likely to spur violence in the streets.

87 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:24:22pm

re: #5 Ben Hur

.....but we won't monitor the Mosques.

Has DHS actually said that? (Genuine question)

88 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:24:44pm

re: #82 Occasional Reader

[shaking fist in impotent rage]

You know what I mean.

Could have been "leaked" on orders from Napolitano, etc.

Well, if was deliberately leaked (is there any other kind?), wouldn't someone have to give the order?

LOL!

89 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:24:59pm

One of the great things about America is the ability of citizens to cause change without violence. It may require organization, but not violence.

Terrorism* is wrong, whatever words you attach to it.

*violence aimed at civilians, children, and non-combatants for the purpose of intimidating other citizens or causing governmental instability

90 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:25:13pm

re: #65 american sabra

Well sir, you would be in the minority. In all the years I've read here, very few if any Republicans admit they have extremists in their midsts. Instead, they go to Zombie's blog, look at all the loonies dressed as horsies or teddy bears, others who wear the pally scarf or carry anti-Semitic signs and get all smug about it, because it's only THEM that are crazy loons, or dangerous crazy loons. It's never US. Seems like this DHS report is a reality check for the Right, but they won't admit it. Talk about disingeneous.

I'll stay a registered Independent awhile longer, thank you.


With the rather relevant caveat that I have yet to see a right wing protest matching the insanity on display at the ones that Zombie covers, I think anyone intellectually honest would admit that there ARE so-called rightwing extremists, (of which Timothy McVeigh would be an archetype).

Its also probably reasonable to assume that that the current Obama administration is going to either motivate them, increase their numbers, or both. . .in much the same way that the Bush administration motivated left-wing extremists.

Again, the issue here is to what extent this report is characterizing or demonizing legitimate political dissent as "extremism".

91 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:25:49pm

re: #87 Occasional Reader

Has DHS actually said that? (Genuine question)

I remember the debate came up after 9/11 (Terrorist attack in '01, for the lurkers)

I think everyone thought that self monitoring was the way to go.

92 nikis-knight  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:25:52pm

re: #65 american sabra

Seems like this DHS report is a reality check for the Right, but they won't admit it.

Specifics are required to adequately check reality. Which apparently this report lacks.

93 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:26:15pm

This report may have been in production for a year or not, but it is truly suspect. It attempts to set up fear of the Boggeyman " all of those "Crazed Right Wing Zealots"
IMO the "leak" is to put a chill on dissent , that could be directed at Obama.

94 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:26:42pm

re: #67 rb4269

What happened to all the hundreds of thousands of 'homeless' who reappeared when George Bush was elected?

Ironically, this particular problem is only going to get worse in the near term:

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

95 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:27:26pm

re: #37 Mars Needs Neocons

I don't question the report or the fact it was begun last year. I question the timing of the release. This was specifically given to the press so they could all say, "Ignore all the protests, it's just a bunch of marginalized lunatic fringe right wingers". It isn't a coincidence that it was released the week of the tea parties.

I'm trying to patient here, but it has been pointed out over and over that this report WAS NOT GIVEN TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

It was released as a threat assessment to law enforcement, and someone leaked it -- and by the way, it first started showing up on ... wait for it ... prisonplanet.com.

I repeat, because this just keeps coming up: IT WAS NOT RELEASED TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

96 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:28:18pm

re: #93 opnion

This report may have been in production for a year or not, but it is truly suspect. It attempts to set up fear of the Boggeyman " all of those "Crazed Right Wing Zealots"
IMO the "leak" is to put a chill on dissent , that could be directed at Obama.

I'd like to see the data her people used to write the report.

Maybe they took data given to them from the last administration and formed it to suit their agenda.

97 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:28:30pm

You know I've never really used LGF Spy before and it's really eye opening to what happens on dead threads and the behavior of comment snipers. Almost makes me want to spring for a second monitor.

98 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:28:38pm
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A will be working with its state and local partners over the next
several months to ascertain with greater regional specificity the rise in rightwing
extremist activity in the United States, with a particular emphasis on the political, economic, and social factors that drive rightwing extremist radicalization.

I'm troubled by this quotation at the very end of the Assessment. It is my God given right as an American to hold political views and to express them. I don't see this as Black Helicoptering. I see this as a formal document put out by my government that identifies a wide range of vaguely defined views, many of which I do believe in, and lump them into potentially dangerous categories that need watching.
Like I said, I'm troubled.

99 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:28:40pm

The clinical paranoia in evidence here is extremely disturbing.

I'm talking about the thread. Not the DHS report.

100 Adrenalyn  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:28:51pm

exactly as I said

this is all about the power of suggestion
anoter day, another right wing bash

keep up the mantra, using any means possible
to keep the mantra up that right wing is bad

left wing is good

keep feeding the animals until they eat you

101 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:29:07pm

re: #95 Charles

I'm trying to patient here, but it has been pointed out over and over that this report WAS NOT GIVEN TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

It was released as a threat assessment to law enforcement, and someone leaked it -- and by the way, it first started showing up on ... wait for it ... prisonplanet.com.

I repeat, because this just keeps coming up: IT WAS NOT RELEASED TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

Charles, you are correct on this one. The FOUO (For Official Use Only) tags in the report indicate that it was an internal memo. Quite frankly, the person who leaked a FOUO document even if it was UNCLAS should be in a fair amount of trouble. I know I would be.

102 J.S.  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:29:08pm

re: #91 Ben Hur

A couple of weeks ago (on CNN's ticker) there was a note about how Muslims (in city X?) were convinced that their mosques had been infiltrated by FBI agents...

103 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:29:22pm

re: #16 american sabra

Why do I think that if Janet was a Republican, and the report was about Leftwingers, the Lizards would be pleased as punch?


Right, because nobody here bitched about Bush or his fiscal policies.

104 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:30:02pm

re: #90 looking closely

With the rather relevant caveat that I have yet to see a right wing protest matching the insanity on display at the ones that Zombie covers, I think anyone intellectually honest would admit that there ARE so-called rightwing extremists, (of which Timothy McVeigh would be an archetype).

Its also probably reasonable to assume that that the current Obama administration is going to either motivate them, increase their numbers, or both. . .in much the same way that the Bush administration motivated left-wing extremists.

Again, the issue here is to what extent this report is characterizing or demonizing legitimate political dissent as "extremism".

I think Sabra is being disingenuous. I know I'm perfectly aware of right wing extremism, living in MT. I think everyone else here is perfectly aware of the dangerous right wing. But, I've come to the conclusion that as you go too far right you wind up left and vice versa. A good example is the stormfront type racists siding with Mama Moonbat.

105 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:30:02pm

re: #102 J.S.

A couple of weeks ago (on CNN's ticker) there was a note about how Muslims (in city X?) were convinced that their mosques had been infiltrated by FBI agents...

Good.

106 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:30:13pm

re: #82 Occasional Reader

[shaking fist in impotent rage]

You know what I mean.

Could have been "leaked" on orders from Napolitano, etc.

Knowing what I know of Obama's Chicago-style politics, I would not put it past the administration to "leak" the report, and then claim to be searching for the leakers.

I've gotten way too cynical living here in Illinois, but the cynicism is often, unfortunately, found to be true.

107 meh130  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:30:17pm

re: #62 RaiderDan

Sorry Charles. I'm with Michelle Malkin on this one.

Again, think of the reaction of the MSM and the civil liberties left if the Bush Administration published a report on "left-wing extremists" in 2003 just before the start of anti-war protests...

Again. The report reads like a Southern Poverty Law Center press release.

There was a left wing report published by the DOE in April 2001 (roughly the same time frame in the Bush administration as we are in the Obama administration). However, the 2001 DOE Left Wing report is a 33-page report rich with details, to include four pages of endnotes.

Speaking of the SPLC, Hinderaker took apart the claims around Iraq/Afghanistan vets in extremest groups. The original source was a SPLC report. Hinderaker exposed the data as bad within six hours of reading the report, referencing the FBI. Compare that to the thousands of man hours which went into the report, which never fact-checked the claim, not even with the FBI. What, is there a new Gorelick wall between DHS and DOJ?

This report is weak. It is like a high school level report. It is so generic to be dangerous.

108 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:30:32pm

re: #97 Idle Drifter

You know I've never really used LGF Spy before and it's really eye opening to what happens on dead threads and the behavior of comment snipers. Almost makes me want to spring for a second monitor.

Picture In Picture!

109 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:30:53pm

re: #65 american sabra

Seems like this DHS report is a reality check for the Right, but they won't admit it. Talk about disingeneous.

"Reality?" In a report based on broad-brush generalizations worthy of a daily newspaper's horoscope column? That report cites no numbers, hides behind weasel-words like "could," "might," and "may," and is almost fact-free. In fact, it is fact-free: the two incidents it describes as part of its "open source" research are chock-full of errors:
[Link: justoneminute.typepad.com...]

This report looks like it took about an hour to throw together, not the "more than a year" DHS claims. As for being a reality check, it's about as reality-based as Obama's deficit projections.

110 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:31:08pm

re: #95 Charles

My apologies for saying given. I meant leaked. Though I feel the two aren't far apart.

111 rusty_armor  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:31:11pm

"I am aware of the letter from American Legion National Commander Rehbein, and my staff has already contacted him to set up a meeting next week once I return from travel. I will tell him face-to-face that we honor veterans at DHS and employ thousands across the department, up to and including the Deputy Secretary."

Fine. But why did she specifically mention the American Legion? Very, very stupid to say the least. I am not so convinced as most of you that it was a mere oversight. And when she says “I will tell him face-to-face”, that sounds a little snarky to me as well.

~rusty

112 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:31:17pm

re: #95 Charles

I'm trying to patient here, but it has been pointed out over and over that this report WAS NOT GIVEN TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

It was released as a threat assessment to law enforcement, and someone leaked it -- and by the way, it first started showing up on ... wait for it ... prisonplanet.com.

I repeat, because this just keeps coming up: IT WAS NOT RELEASED TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

Charles, I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, but I honestly don't see what difference it makes whether this was formally released by the government or leaked. Maybe I have a big blind spot but I don't see the relevance.

113 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:31:26pm

re: #65 american sabra

Well sir, you would be in the minority. In all the years I've read here, very few if any Republicans admit they have extremists in their midsts. Instead, they go to Zombie's blog, look at all the loonies dressed as horsies or teddy bears, others who wear the pally scarf or carry anti-Semitic signs and get all smug about it, because it's only THEM that are crazy loons, or dangerous crazy loons. It's never US. Seems like this DHS report is a reality check for the Right, but they won't admit it. Talk about disingeneous.

I'll stay a registered Independent awhile longer, thank you.

I would be in the minority in thinking that extremism on any side is a bad thing? You think I don't believe that they're aren't "loons" on both sides of the fence? Do you see me as that naive, even though we've never met?

I was merely retorting to your comment stating that if roles were reversed, we'd suddenly become blonde-headed cheerleaders of the cause. I strongly disagree.

114 wltzacrsstxs  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:31:29pm

But here's the thing. DHS's sacrificial lamb said "I can't answer that" twice when asked these questions:
1. Is DHS going to be monitoring Tea Parties?
2. Does DHS consider the organizers of Tea Parties to be right wing extremists?

He had no problem offering one word no answers on various other questions.

Which means the answer to both questions above was yes.

115 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:31:40pm

Just a question, does anybody think that a White House with Rham Emmanuel is above getting a report like this out there to damage the Tea Parties among other things? Nobody in Chicago would be surprised.

116 MarkX  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:31:49pm

I’m confused (a common state for me).

If this assessment was for LEO, could it not been released by someone in a local LE as opposed to someone in DHS?

117 alegrias  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:32:13pm

OT

Hey, Ron Paul wants the government to allow privateers to seize enemy pirate ships and keep the loot!

(His idea was reported by Fox News)

118 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:32:27pm

Here's the latest kookspiracy from the daily paul, it's in our spinoffs and folks with common sense might want to go out and ding this "the gov't wants to steal ur babeez!" spinoff link down....

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

119 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:32:30pm

Is the leaker a whistle-blower or traitor?

Discuss.

120 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:32:59pm

given what we have seen from the left and the o administration,i don't trust them at all.
they are a bunch of underhanded conniving thugs so of course it is reasonable to see this report as biased and manipulative.
and the timing of its release as more than suspect.
look what they did to 'joe the plumber', look how o gives the finger to
people, and remember how the authorities in st. louis county threatened to go after anyone saying' bad things' abt. o.
to trust that the o machine is going to rise to the occasion and be honest and truthful in a report of this nature is not possible.
too much abt. them tells me otherwise.
and i understand why the american legion commander is upset.
this report maligns the troops, no matter what the intent.

121 MarkX  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:33:00pm

re: #119 Ben Hur

see my #116

122 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:33:01pm

re: #115 opnion

Just a question, does anybody think that a White House with Rham Emmanuel is above getting a report like this out there to damage the Tea Parties among other things? Nobody in Chicago would be surprised.

It would be a Rahm type of stunt to leak such a report. He's not above the act by any means.

123 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:33:27pm

Good Night Lizards. See some of you on the LNDT.

Play Nice.:)

124 anchors_aweigh  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:33:41pm

"Right-Wing" extremist warnings are nothing new in the LE community. Yes, this particular Threat Assessment is more anecdotal than others I have seen, but it is really not out of the ordinary. In fact, I will bet that it was released to the public by a "Right-Winger" to stir-up people just prior to the Tea parties. A false-flag op.

Professional security risk managers continually assess risk from all potential threat vectors. "Threat" is just one component of "Risk", so don't get your panties in a wad because those who do security risk analysis for a living, are actually doing their job. Looking at all potential threat vectors.

DHS I&A was just doing their job by providing Threat data to the security risk managers. A Threat Assessment is the entering argument when doing a security risk analysis, not the end product.

125 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:33:47pm

re: #98 LGoPs

I'm troubled by this quotation at the very end of the Assessment. It is my God given right as an American to hold political views and to express them. I don't see this as Black Helicoptering. I see this as a formal document put out by my government that identifies a wide range of vaguely defined views, many of which I do believe in, and lump them into potentially dangerous categories that need watching.
Like I said, I'm troubled.

Doesn't that say the opposite of this :

We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist activity but we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs
126 caligal  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:33:56pm

As someone who is planning on attending my local tea party this afternoon, I think the ruckus was also fueled by the lack of oversight/inclusion on the part of DHS on such groups as acorn, code pink and other extreme groups from the opposing side.
This is my constitutional right to complain in a mild manner way. Thankfully, where I live it will not get ugly.

127 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:33:57pm

re: #121 MarkX

see my #116

Translate, please.

128 brookly red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:34:01pm

re: #119 Ben Hur

Is the leaker a whistle-blower or traitor?

Discuss.

If the leak was intentional, then neither.

129 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:34:10pm

re: #122 Honorary Yooper

It would be a Rahm type of stunt to leak such a report. He's not above the act by any means.

No he's not.

130 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:34:19pm

re: #108 debutaunt

Picture In Picture!

I don't have that feature on my monitor.

131 caligal  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:34:33pm

re: #105 Ben Hur

I hope it is true.

132 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:34:38pm

re: #51 sfcmac

"the perceived loss of U.S. jobs in the manufacturing"

I'm pretty sure there are ACTUAL jobs which have been lost in Detroit as well as Rockford, IL and other industrial cities.

133 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:08pm

re: #130 Idle Drifter

I don't have that feature on my monitor.

I don't either, but it would make be blink constantly.

134 alegrias  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:16pm

I still think the idiot at the DC Tea Party with his "Right Wing Extremist" sign was asking for trouble.

135 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:30pm

re: #106 Honorary Yooper

Knowing what I know of Obama's Chicago-style politics, I would not put it past the administration to "leak" the report, and then claim to be searching for the leakers.

I've gotten way too cynical living here in Illinois, but the cynicism is often, unfortunately, found to be true.

I'm a cynic too, or maybe just a realist but I would be surprised if they didn't do that.......

136 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:36pm

re: #133 debutaunt

I don't either, but it would make be blink constantly.

And me too.

137 Hawaii69  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:37pm

re: #67 rb4269

Right wing militias are the same thing when the left is in power as the 'homeless' are when they are out of power - just one more rhetorical tool. What happened to all the hundreds of thousands of 'homeless' who reappeared when George Bush was elected? Even when mortgage foreclosures are at an all time high under a leftist administration there are no reports of homelessness. The spectre of militia extremism is a cue to the commercial news media to do their political duty and spread the meme and redirect peoples attention.


A

rhetorical tool

bombed a federal building in 1995, killing 168 people

138 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:39pm
139 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:44pm

re: #127 Ben Hur

Translate, please.

LEO = Law Enforcement Officers
LE = law enforcement
DHS = Dept. of Homeland Security

140 Right mind left  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:35:58pm

re: #108 debutaunt

Picture In Picture!

re: #130 Idle Drifter

I don't have that feature on my monitor.

It's a PIP!

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:36:13pm

re: #51 sfcmac

Charles,
"...distorted stories..." Really? DID YOU READ THE DHS DOCUMENT? It's impossible to take it out of context.
The following are excerpts:
(U//LES) "Rightwing extremists are harnessing this historical election as a recruitment tool. Many rightwing extremists are antagonistic toward the new presidential administration and its perceived stance on a range of issues, including immigration and citizenship, the expansion of social programs to minorities, and restrictions on firearms ownership and use. Rightwing extremists are increasingly galvanized by these concerns and leverage them as drivers for recruitment. From the 2008 election timeframe to the present, rightwing extremists have capitalized on related racial and political prejudices in expanded propaganda campaigns, thereby reaching out to a wider audience of potential sympathizers."
Didja get that? If you have problems with Obama’s tax/spend/bailout, and his pusillanimous foreign policy (pandering to America’s enemies), then you’re a "racist".
.

I'm going to agree that if specific organization descriptors are not given, that's a failing, but the fact is, crazies, real flat-out crazies, are in fact doing just that, and they're not organizing tax protests, they're talking about race war and blowing shit up. These people are out there, have been for a long time, and law enforcement keeps an eye on them.

The point is not that anyone who dislikes the Obama administration is a threat. The point is that the people who are threats are capitalizing on the Obama administration.

If you think I'm in denial, ok. THat's my take on it for now.

142 TheSextons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:36:18pm

re: #62 RaiderDan

Sorry Charles. I'm with Michelle Malkin on this one.

Again, think of the reaction of the MSM and the civil liberties left if the Bush Administration published a report on "left-wing extremists" in 2003 just before the start of anti-war protests...

Again. The report reads like a Southern Poverty Law Center press release.

Agreed.

There is an entire section in the report devoted to "Disgruntled Veterans." However, there are no facts, beyond Timothy McVeigh, cited in the report which support the report's argument that "disgruntled veterans" are increasingly linking up with rightwing extremist groups and neo-nazis.

Further, the report cites many "rightwing" groups being "antagonistic" to the new President's policies on immigration, extending social programs to minorities (as if there was a previous "whites-only" policy for recipients of entitlement benefits), and "citizenship." Leaving "antagonistic" undefined, we are left to guess what kind of views openly posted on a blog or written in a letter to the editor of a local newspaper will cause one to be labeled a "rightwing extremist" needing to be monitored by the federal government.

By all means, monitor any group threatening violence or amassing weapons with a stated intent of overthrowing the government, regardless of what fringes of the political spectrum the group might reside at. But this report is a crock. And being concerned about it does not render one a nutcase conspiracy theorist.

I guess now the American Legion should be monitored... it appears that it is being antagonistic to the president's efforts monitoring all disgruntled veterans.

143 Right mind left  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:36:26pm

re: #136 debutaunt

And me too.

Oh no, I'm seeing double

144 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:36:39pm

re: #137 Hawaii69

bombed a federal building in 1995, killing 168 people

McVeigh was not actually part of a militia.

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:37:00pm

re: #55 Ben Hur

Don't think that they're not monitoring THIS site as a right wing nut site.

Hi!

146 Athens Runaway  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:37:11pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

I've seen this before.

Mr. Johnson is only 1-2 months away from following Andrew Sullivan's lead (i.e., claiming to be a brave independent but digging in 100% behind the Democrats on every single issue).

As long as Barack Obama doesn't officially convert to Islam during his term, there's nothing he can do that will earn Charles' criticism. No matter what Obama does, Charles will simply point to an upset right-winger, say the right-wing is "hyperventilating," and on that basis refuse to criticize Obama's policies. It's a variant of the "hey-look-over-there" strategy.

That's okay, Charles. It was fun while it lasted. It's a shame to lose you, but whatever. We have to move forward.

There's just no place here for an OUTLAW.

Someone's begging for a banhammering...

147 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:37:17pm

re: #90 looking closely

I would very much disagree with your first paragraph. A bunch of wackos screaming BURN THE BOOKS (what Charles posted the other day) and how President Obama is a commie pinko nutjob who can't wait to turn this country into Germany in 1941 and how he's going to barge into your home and steal your guns... well that's just about as loony as what goes on in the streets of San Fran.

Btw, people here honestly think that Ms. Burn the Books in that video was a leftie plant... my point exactly.

I also recall the lunatic fringe during the Terri Schiavo scandal. All rightwingers. Charles wasn't popular that day either....

As I recall, the "commie hysteria" went on in the Clinton admin as well as the threat of him taking your guns. None of which happened then nor will happen now, but who here will believe. Well I thought it was SOME here... but I'm beginning to see that it's pretty widespread.

I see this report as a warning, plain and simple, to police depts primarily. And I was thinking the same thing the other day when I first started to see the Tea Parties forming. Scared the hell outa me and still does.

148 rb4269  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:37:39pm

re: #89 EmmmieG

For leftists terror violence was is and always will be a legitimate form of political expression (unless the perpetrators are from the right)

149 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:37:40pm

Where do I fall into this definition?
I'm a Christian ,Check
I'm Prolife,Check
I believe in small Gov't,Check
I practice my second Amendment rights,Check
FERVENTLY(see above),Check
Oh yea, I'm White,Check
I'm so screwed!

150 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:37:41pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

Out of line sir. Charles is maintaining a level head in the midst of a hurricane of lunacy. I strongly suggest you take a deep breath before denigrating your host.

151 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:38:28pm

re: #104 Mars Needs Neocons

Are you getting snow?
We've had it since this morning but it isnt sticking on the roads.

152 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:38:31pm

re: #55 Ben Hur

Don't think that they're not monitoring THIS site as a right wing nut site.

I'm right wing and I'm a nut, but I am not a right wing nut.

153 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:38:32pm

re: #133 debutaunt

I don't either, but it would make be blink constantly.

How big would the monitor would have to be so I could read the PiP? I'm not spending the money for a flat screen TV...although it would make for an interesting experience for video games.

154 Athens Runaway  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:38:34pm

All right Lizards, I'm off to the Columbus, OH Tea Party with all my fellow hyperventilating right-wing extremists. I'll have pictures and stories, for sure.

155 cmarks  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:38:37pm

"hyperventilating" LOLOL

156 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:38:49pm

re: #117 alegrias

OT

Hey, Ron Paul wants the government to allow privateers to seize enemy pirate ships and keep the loot!

(His idea was reported by Fox News)


At one time I thought Ron Paul was just a harmless fool. How wrong I was.

157 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:38:55pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

As long as Barack Obama doesn't officially convert to Islam during his term, there's nothing he can do that will earn Charles' criticism.

Um... have you actually been reading any thread topics lately?

158 Utah Chris  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:39:06pm

I wonder if they are planning on going back and looking at the Weather Underground yoyo's still running around making a name for themselves or is this outside the scope of DHS? It makes my stomach flop every time I see that yoyo's name in the news again when his clan found a way to escape prosecution 40 years ago.

159 notutopia  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:39:11pm

re: #117 alegrias

OT

Hey, Ron Paul wants the government to allow privateers to seize enemy pirate ships and keep the loot!

(His idea was reported by Fox News)

You are misquoting an old constitutional caveat called marquism.
The privateers are paid a bounty fee. Not Loot.

Used heavily during the Revolution and the War of 1812, letters of marque serve as official warrants from the government, allowing privateers to seize or destroy enemies, their loot and their vessels in exchange for bounty money.

The letters also require would-be thrill seekers to post a bond promising to abide by international rules of war.
[Link: www.politico.com...]

160 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:39:26pm

re: #134 alegrias

I still think the idiot at the DC Tea Party with his "Right Wing Extremist" sign was asking for trouble.

Seems like satire. I walked through Federal Plaza in Chicago this afternoon where a Tea Party was forming.
It seemed like a good natured crowd & nothing like a bunch of Right Wing fanatics.

161 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:39:50pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

You sir are an idiotarian. Charles is being rightfully cautious on this issue. There may be disagreements here between the host and some of the commentors, but that does not by any means mean Charles is going the way of Andrew Sullivan. They are a natural by-product of discussion in a forum which Charles has been very kind of offer us.

Why don't you just piss off, Daryl?

162 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:39:52pm

re: #152 ConservatismNow!

I'm right wing and I'm a nut, but I am not a right wing nut.

I dube thee.....Sir/Madam WINGNUT!

163 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:01pm

re: #147 american sabra

Oh, give it a rest. Scared of the tea parties? Grow the hell up.

164 Deseeded  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:05pm

So when does the DHS release the "Left-Wing Extremism" and "Evil Jew Conspiracy" reports? :p

165 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:08pm

ok, so we have folks smuggling nukular material throught US banks; we have places like Islamberg being ignored; we've gotten rid of the terms "enemy combatant" and "terrorist attack" when referring to Islamist groups; we're on the verge of opening up gitmo and giving them welfare; but for a year+ (according to many) this group has been working on the threat of "right wing violence" due to the slumping economy and the election of Obama (which, incidently, only occurred a few months ago, and the economy really began its slump more recently than that)?

The FBI even has (rather, had) a reachout program to CAIR and other Islamist apologists, but now we worry that the fear is right wing extremism? Any cook can pull a Virginia Tech or Oklahoma City. I'm not sure what any agency can do to stop such events where one person goes off the deep end.

Left wing groups have been blowing things up for years, and some eventually get pardoned, but now we have to worry about people because they are unhappy they lost their job, unhappy about immigration policies, or unhappy about potential firearms bans? That encompasses a lot of folks who aren't necessarily "extremists."

They should be pissed off.

This report, as vague as it is, may has well included unruly martians as potential threats. No specifics, just some vague descriptions of extremists, that include "groups that reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority." Really?

There is no actual data on anything in the report. Not a single iota of evidence that anything they say is true, other than the stockpiling of ammunition in certain areas, which is measurable and defendable, I suppose.

another blog tears the report apart pretty well, undermining its central premise. It states: "...the “outsourcing of jobs” outrage didn’t get stoked by the Right. That outrage got fed by the Democrats in the last two elections, and it’s a feature of the same anti-globalization loons of the hard Left that continually disrupt G-20 summits as they violently did in London. "

This whole DHS report is a liberal wet dream.

Marginalize anyone who doesn't believe in big federal government, marginalize anyone who supports the right to bear arms, marginalize anyone who dissents with the current administration on a multitude of issues, marginalize those with strong opinions on abortion, and marginalize those with strong feelings about immigration.

Ofcourse we didn't need to worry about left wingers holding sings of Bush up with the Hitler mustache. No need to do anything about the left wing loons trying to stop trains carrying war material by pouring concrete on rail road tracks (Olympia, WA). No need to worry about left wing groups attacking military recruiter offices. No, those are all just fine.

Instead we need to worry about those that support federalism, the 2nd Ammendment, and the right to life.

If this is any sort of focus by DHS (after, removing any references to Islamic terrorism in any documents, of course) we are in big trouble.

166 Hawaii69  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:15pm

re: #20 hebrewtoyou

Yes, there was, but it very specific about naming actual threats from actual left-wing groups who resort to violence. ELF is one such example.

I think people are certainly exaggerating the chilling nature of the memo on right-wing extremism, but it does worry me that the document was issued without any specific groups or threats named.

Very peculiar.


The report on Right Wing Extremism named specific examples as well, regardless of naming a specific
group.

There's nothing peculiar about it unless you're looking for it to be.

167 Right mind left  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:18pm

re: #153 Idle Drifter

How big would the monitor would have to be so I could read the PiP? I'm not spending the money for a flat screen TV...although it would make for an interesting experience for video games.

Well the PiP feature comes in many screen sizes so you can choose half screen or small corner boxes...depends on if you use bifocals or not !

168 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:24pm

re: #154 Athens Runaway

Be safe!

169 oh_dude  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:50pm

Just two questions...

1. Why didn't an "equivalent" type of report ever emerge during the eight years of the Bush presidency?

2. Is it just a coincidence that the report is focused on "right wing" extremists now that a mostly left-wing cabinet runs the government?

Just curious.

170 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:57pm

re: #114 wltzacrsstxs

But here's the thing. DHS's sacrificial lamb said "I can't answer that" twice when asked these questions:
1. Is DHS going to be monitoring Tea Parties?
2. Does DHS consider the organizers of Tea Parties to be right wing extremists?

He had no problem offering one word no answers on various other questions.

Which means the answer to both questions above was yes.

To be fair, they'd be foolish not to monitor them, just in case.

171 'Nam Grunt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:41:02pm

Seems to me that Napolitano and Obama are nervous and trying to start a cover up, hey, tea party's DO work.

172 brookly red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:41:09pm

re: #164 Deseeded

huh?

173 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:41:14pm

re: #104 Mars Needs Neocons
OK Mars! where have you been? How have you been? Did you get a good job?

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:41:26pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert


There's just no place here for an OUTLAW.

Wow. You must be cool.

/got a motorcycle?

175 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:41:34pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

Mr. Johnson is only 1-2 months away from following Andrew Sullivan's lead

And given Charles' professed admiration for Daryl Hannah, I really doubt he's into "bears".

So there.

176 alegrias  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:41:57pm

re: #159 notutopia

You are misquoting an old constitutional caveat called marquism.
The privateers are paid a bounty fee. Not Loot.

Used heavily during the Revolution and the War of 1812, letters of marque serve as official warrants from the government, allowing privateers to seize or destroy enemies, their loot and their vessels in exchange for bounty money.

The letters also require would-be thrill seekers to post a bond promising to abide by international rules of war.
[Link: www.politico.com...]

* * * *
Thanks for explaining this.

177 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #95 Charles

I'm trying to patient here, but it has been pointed out over and over that this report WAS NOT GIVEN TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

It was released as a threat assessment to law enforcement, and someone leaked it -- and by the way, it first started showing up on ... wait for it ... prisonplanet.com.

I repeat, because this just keeps coming up: IT WAS NOT RELEASED TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.


That does tend to minimize concerns about deliberate leaking to affect "tea parties" but it still doesn't legitimate the document's content. Just look at it. . .the whole thing is a tissue of speculation.

Report here.

(U//LES) The DHS/Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) has no specific information that domestic rightwing* terrorists are currently planning acts of violence, but rightwing extremists may be gaining new recruits by playing on their fears about several emergent issues. The economic downturn and the election of the first
African American president present unique drivers for rightwing radicalization and recruitment.

— (U//LES) Threats from white supremacist and violent antigovernment groups during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry out violent acts. Nevertheless, the consequences of a prolonged economic downturn—including real estate foreclosures, unemployment, and an inability to obtain credit—could create a fertile recruiting environment for rightwing
extremists and even result in confrontations between such groups and government authorities similar to those in the past.
— (U//LES) Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first African American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new members, mobilize existing supporters, and broaden their scope and appeal through propaganda, but they have not yet turned to attack planning.
(U//FOUO) The current economic and political climate has some similarities to the 1990s when rightwing extremism experienced a resurgence fueled largely by an economic recession, criticism about the outsourcing of jobs, and the perceived threat to U.S. power and sovereignty by other foreign powers.

178 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:42:23pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

Bye now. You take care.

179 Kragar  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:42:28pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow. You must be cool.

/got a motorcycle?

or an Indian sidekick

180 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:42:28pm

re: #117 alegrias

OT

Hey, Ron Paul wants the government to allow privateers to seize enemy pirate ships and keep the loot!

(His idea was reported by Fox News)

Actually that's probably the first thing he's said, that I almost agree with.

181 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:42:48pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

I've seen this before.

Mr. Johnson is only 1-2 months away from following Andrew Sullivan's lead (i.e., claiming to be a brave independent but digging in 100% behind the Democrats on every single issue).


You're cuckoo.

182 alegrias  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:42:49pm

re: #163 VioletTiger

Oh, give it a rest. Scared of the tea parties? Grow the hell up.

* * * *
Thank you.

183 Deseeded  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:42:57pm

re: #172 brookly red

huh?

Well, I assume there has to be more reports on the various type of "extremism" that we have at any given time on our soil.... ;)

184 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:43:04pm

re: #151 Eowyn2

Are you getting snow?
We've had it since this morning but it isnt sticking on the roads.

Yep, since last night. Starting to melt off though. Really wet.

185 'Nam Grunt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:44:17pm

re: #138 Daryl Herbert

You are exactly an idiot, where the hell did you come from kos?

186 Emerald  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:44:31pm

Facts are such pesky little details. They just get in the way of blind, irrational ranting.

187 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:44:53pm

re: #179 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

or an Indian sidekick

Who was that masked man?

Well, he's banned now.

188 alegrias  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:45:07pm

re: #163 VioletTiger

Oh, give it a rest. Scared of the tea parties? Grow the hell up.

* * * *
The handful of POLICE in front of the White House Tea Party was bored to tears by the peaceful crowd of Tax protesters wielding umbrellas in the downpour.

189 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:45:20pm

re: #122 Honorary Yooper

It would be a Rahm type of stunt to leak such a report. He's not above the act by any means.

I have to admit, that was my first thought. Others have mentioned the details and footnotes in the 2001 report on left-wing threats. By comparison, this one seems incomplete and unfinished, almost like it's a draft document. I am not saying this is what happened, but I could envision a scenario in which an incomplete report was leaked for political purposes shortly before the tax day events in order to cast suspicion on the participants. And what better way to discredit the movement than by leaking it to Alex Jones?

I've got to run, there's a black helicopter waiting for me outside...

190 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:45:44pm

re: #124 anchors_aweigh

"Right-Wing" extremist warnings are nothing new in the LE community. Yes, this particular Threat Assessment is more anecdotal than others I have seen, but it is really not out of the ordinary. In fact, I will bet that it was released to the public by a "Right-Winger" to stir-up people just prior to the Tea parties. A false-flag op.

Professional security risk managers continually assess risk from all potential threat vectors. "Threat" is just one component of "Risk", so don't get your panties in a wad because those who do security risk analysis for a living, are actually doing their job. Looking at all potential threat vectors.

DHS I&A was just doing their job by providing Threat data to the security risk managers. A Threat Assessment is the entering argument when doing a security risk analysis, not the end product.

I have to disagree. I don't think this was a right wing leak, specifically because, it discredits the tea parties rather than drawing attention to them. I know most right wingers (not extremist types) have been wanting press attention, but not attention that marginalizes them and makes them look like nuts.

191 notutopia  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:46:05pm

#138, Mr. Herbert, life consists of a series of gradients. How you judge them and cope with them, can make or break your sanity.
You have slipped into the Twilight Zone.

192 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:46:12pm

re: #188 alegrias

* * * *
The handful of POLICE in front of the White House Tea Party was bored to tears by the peaceful crowd of Tax protesters wielding umbrellas in the downpour.

I did notice that. Very light police presence, and with nothing to do.

193 smokin' hamster  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:47:11pm
IT WAS NOT RELEASED TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

My government loves me and wants what's best for me.

194 PISSED  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:47:22pm

If you all dont mind I'd like to throw my 2 cents in:

I found this article interesting and it fits with the whole DHS report.
From the AP on march 14th 09

Missouri report on militias, terrorists draws criticism

[Link: www.kansascity.com...]

This is the part of concern:

The Feb. 20 report called "The Modern Militia Movement" mentions such red flags as political bumper stickers for third-party candidates, such as U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, who ran for president last year; talk of conspiracy theories, such as the plan for a superhighway linking Canada to Mexico; and possession of subversive literature.

195 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:47:30pm
I'm trying to patient here, but it has been pointed out over and over that this report WAS NOT GIVEN TO THE PRESS BY THE DHS.

Everybody knows information wants to be free. It freed itself by sending itself to the Press. They never expected the people of the United States of America to actual see it. That would be crazy. We all know how well secrets are kept by our government! Some nasty law enforcement people must have leaked it becuase it was such a valuable assemsment he/she felt like people better be informed of the threat they face and given how specific the document was, people could easily spot these loons before damage is done. Besides, this document was started a year ago, despite the fact that most of the cuases listed (First African American President, Economic collapse) all just happened in the last several months.

196 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:47:32pm

re: #167 Right mind left

Well the PiP feature comes in many screen sizes so you can choose half screen or small corner boxes...depends on if you use bifocals or not !

I'll just slip idea into my Rolodex for the time being. I wouldn't mind PiP and my computer is set up for as many as 4 monitors from the jacks alone on the tandem video cards which speeds up graphics and clarity makes for nice visuals in game play and movies.

197 opnion  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:47:35pm

re: #189 doppelganglander

I have to admit, that was my first thought. Others have mentioned the details and footnotes in the 2001 report on left-wing threats. By comparison, this one seems incomplete and unfinished, almost like it's a draft document. I am not saying this is what happened, but I could envision a scenario in which an incomplete report was leaked for political purposes shortly before the tax day events in order to cast suspicion on the participants. And what better way to discredit the movement than by leaking it to Alex Jones?

I've got to run, there's a black helicopter waiting for me outside...

Just cause it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & quacks like a duck does not mean that it is not a Hairy Nose Wombat!

198 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:47:36pm

re: #137 Hawaii69

bombed a federal building in 1995, killing 168 people

It was not a militia (which, by its definition, is an organized body) it was a psychopath and his friends.

I do not belong to a militia nor do I plan on joining one. Some are very fanatical but most do try to stay within the law. Else we would be hearing regular reports on militias and their lawless acts.

199 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:47:54pm

A few notes on the DHS report:

1. There are crazies out there. Both on the left (as seen in a previous report), and on the right (as this report covers).
2. It's sloppy, IMHO. It fails to mention exact groups like the left-wing report a few years ago. Almost as it if needed a bit more finishing.
3. The leak timing is strange, and it has a Rahm-esque feel to it. We may know more about the leak as it is investigated.
4. The report is nothing to go nuts over. It is print and paper, and it is nothing more. Let us save our outrage and vitriol for if the administration makes a move on health care.

It is good that Charles is being cautious about it. He was cautious about the birth certificate issue, and he was right to be cautious. Many of the same who are getting worked up over the report are those who got in bed with the 'Nirthers earlier.

200 J.S.  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:48:14pm

re: #119 Ben Hur

Yes, well, speaking of leaked documents -- there was that other one (mentioned by Lou Dobbs last night) -- the "Missouri Information Analysis Center's: The Modern Militia Movement" in which people with Ron Paul bumper stickers on their cars were possible targets for investigation...(the center had to withdraw the report and apologize.) Wiki article here...
(btw, speaking of accidental vs deliberate leaks -- sometimes a document could accidentally fall into the wrong hands -- someone leaves a document unattended or loses it through carelessness...vs someone with a political agenda who decides to make the document available to the public)...

201 zturlte  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:48:51pm

Report paints a wide swath that the left will and has used against the right. Charles I am surprised that you don't cannot see why people like me who are conservative are concerned. I don't consider myself extreme but apparently the msm does and has gladly taken this report and run it. What profoundly bothers me about this report is that I am pro-gun pro-life anti illegal immigration fiscal conservative and can possibly be painted as a violent extremist which I am not. I don't like this report one bit and especially how it can be used against innocents.

202 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:49:14pm

re: #187 Occasional Reader

Who was that masked man?

Well, he's banned now.


That was a pretty dumb post..But to carry it back to yesterday OR..
I'm 1 -2 weeks away from turning into Denzel Washington..Finally Beyonce will return my phone calls..
/:)

203 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:49:21pm

re: #178 Charles

Bye now. You take care.

Que Queen.

204 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:49:52pm

I like this bit, its ironic on so many levels:

— (U//FOUO) Proposed imposition of firearms restrictions and weapons bans likely would attract new members into the ranks of rightwing extremist groups, as well as potentially spur some of them to begin planning and training for violence against the government.

The high volume of purchases and stockpiling of weapons and ammunition by rightwing extremists in anticipation of restrictions and bans in some parts of the country continue to be a primary concern to law enforcement.


I guess, I'm a rightwing extremist too, since I also just stockpiled guns and ammo in case of future bans.

This is about as close to an admission by the gov't that gun control is a failure as we're going to see. The Department of Homeland security just said that proposed gun bans are in fact causing MORE guns and ammo to get in the hands of "extremists".

Also, we have a fairly ironic presentation of the "fighting terrorism only makes more terrorists" argument, only at the domestic level. According to the DHS, banning guns will create more rightwing extremists!

205 notutopia  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:49:53pm

* sigh*

206 panamahat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:50:36pm

What better way to lay a foundation for martial law than to build up the "threat" of right-win g lunatics? I've been looking for this kind of thing as Obama continues this mad rush to complete statism. I know there are people out there who will say I'm crazy, but I can't see how Obama can afford what might happen in 2010. You don't put all this effort into subverting the country and then let it be lost to an election

207 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:50:44pm

re: #165 n2stox

ok, so we have folks smuggling nukular material throught US banks; we have places like Islamberg being ignored; we've gotten rid of the terms "enemy combatant" and "terrorist attack" when referring to Islamist groups; we're on the verge of opening up gitmo and giving them welfare; but for a year+ (according to many) this group has been working on the threat of "right wing violence" due to the slumping economy and the election of Obama (which, incidently, only occurred a few months ago, and the economy really began its slump more recently than that)?

The FBI even has (rather, had) a reachout program to CAIR and other Islamist apologists, but now we worry that the fear is right wing extremism? Any cook can pull a Virginia Tech or Oklahoma City. I'm not sure what any agency can do to stop such events where one person goes off the deep end.

Left wing groups have been blowing things up for years, and some eventually get pardoned, but now we have to worry about people because they are unhappy they lost their job, unhappy about immigration policies, or unhappy about potential firearms bans? That encompasses a lot of folks who aren't necessarily "extremists."

They should be pissed off.

This report, as vague as it is, may has well included unruly martians as potential threats. No specifics, just some vague descriptions of extremists, that include "groups that reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority." Really?

There is no actual data on anything in the report. Not a single iota of evidence that anything they say is true, other than the stockpiling of ammunition in certain areas, which is measurable and defendable, I suppose.

another blog tears the report apart pretty well, undermining its central premise. It states: "...the “outsourcing of jobs” outrage didn’t get stoked by the Right. That outrage got fed by the Democrats in the last two elections, and it’s a feature of the same anti-globalization loons of the hard Left that continually disrupt G-20 summits as they violently did in London. "

This whole DHS report is a liberal wet dream.

Marginalize anyone who doesn't believe in big federal government, marginalize anyone who supports the right to bear arms, marginalize anyone who dissents with the current administration on a multitude of issues, marginalize those with strong opinions on abortion, and marginalize those with strong feelings about immigration.

Ofcourse we didn't need to worry about left wingers holding sings of Bush up with the Hitler mustache. No need to do anything about the left wing loons trying to stop trains carrying war material by pouring concrete on rail road tracks (Olympia, WA). No need to worry about left wing groups attacking military recruiter offices. No, those are all just fine.

Instead we need to worry about those that support federalism, the 2nd Ammendment, and the right to life.

If this is any sort of focus by DHS (after, removing any references to Islamic terrorism in any documents, of course) we are in big trouble.

I'll have you know that we martians are generally well behaved. (at least until you are all my subjects, bwahahhaha)

208 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:50:51pm

re: #199 Honorary Yooper
Good post.
Yes, we do have more important things to worry about.

209 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:50:53pm

re: #134 alegrias

I still think the idiot at the DC Tea Party with his "Right Wing Extremist" sign was asking for trouble.

I think it would be boring to have that sign.

210 oh_dude  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:51:11pm

re: #178 Charles

Aw man! I didn't get to see the new XR79 Troll-Smasher in action.

211 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:51:38pm

re: #199 Honorary Yooper

It is good that Charles is being cautious about it. He was cautious about in on the cover-up of the birth certificate issue

//

212 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:51:43pm

re: #173 HoosierHoops

OK Mars! where have you been? How have you been? Did you get a good job?

Nope still unemployed. Which sucks, because I'm wary of filing for divorce until I'm employed.

213 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:51:47pm

Why in the world would my fear of disgruntled rigntwingers be any different than my fear of disgruntled leftwingers? You really don't get the point, do you? People tend to get crazy in numbers and do really stupid things that they wouldn't normally do by themselves. THAT'S what scares me. I think it's bizarre from any party.

Each party has their wackos. You all just won't admit to yours.

214 PISSED  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:52:57pm

re: #204 looking closely

I know many average people that recently ( past 6-8 months have gone out and gotten CC permits ) and have bought guns and ammo.

Go to any of the shops around here (northern MA.. southern NH) the walls are empty and the shelves are bare, so to speak. I dont think all these guns and ammo are going to militia. They are going to your neighbors that are nervous.

215 Hawaii69  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:53:23pm

re: #144 Occasional Reader

McVeigh was not actually part of a militia.

All the more reason to wonder why so many people
are complaining that "no specific organizations" are
mentioned in the report!"

He's a perfect example.

216 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:54:18pm

re: #184 Mars Needs Neocons


what county you in?

217 'Nam Grunt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:54:51pm

Beware the ides of March, oh, this is April, nevertheless the left wing wackos are upon us and look just what they are trying to do at this blog and what they are doing to Free Americans, we can't let this happen folks man up and bring LGF back to the front to combat their lunacy.

218 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:55:30pm

re: #207 Mars Needs Neocons

The "Unruly Martian" report comes out when Biden runs for POTUS in 7+ years.

219 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:55:59pm

re: #213 american sabra

Why in the world would my fear of disgruntled rigntwingers be any different than my fear of disgruntled leftwingers? You really don't get the point, do you? People tend to get crazy in numbers and do really stupid things that they wouldn't normally do by themselves. THAT'S what scares me. I think it's bizarre from any party.

Each party has their wackos. You all just won't admit to yours.

Who all?

220 restitutor orbis  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:56:03pm

What alarms me the most about this report is that the standard applied to determine a "right-wing extremist" can be extremely loose. We can assume that they might be able to differentiate between a right-leaning member of society and a skinheaded psychopath with an SS flag hanging in his bedroom. But the question is, can they? It's safe to say that you, Charles, and probably everyone on this site (including me)has been tarred as a racist, nazi, genocidal hate-speechin' xenophobe at some point. Are you going to trust that when a law is passed to shut down sites espousing "hate speech" your site is not going to make the list? It's pretty easy to be a racist these days, when the only thing you need to do is to have not voted for Obama. At the same time, violent anti-government radicals, Pentagon bombing scumbags and cop-killers are "educators" or champions of "social justice" When viewed through this double standard, I can see why so many are concerned by this report. I think the timing of the report with regards to the news cycle is also quite suspect
However, I think flailing and hyperventilating may be counterproductive at this point, But we would all be wise to file this one away and watch closely.

221 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:56:14pm

re: #215 Hawaii69

All the more reason to wonder why so many people
are complaining that "no specific organizations" are
mentioned in the report!"

He's a perfect example.

He would never have shown up on the radar once he was thrown out of the militia.

Watch out for the 'quiet, keeps to himself' peoples.

222 Dreader1962  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:56:45pm

One troubling aspect of the response to this report is the emphasis that it was initiated 'last year'. It seems that the main emphasis of this report, however, is concern over the response to the Obama administration, something that couldn't have been written about before November. It would appear that the bulk of what was leaked pertains to the Obama administration.

There has been a longstanding law enforcement effort to monitor such groups as the KKK and neo-Nazi groups. Sometimes these are undertaken by multiple government agencies and uncoordinated, so you could have a BATF agent alongside an FBI agent in a KKK rally, both 'acting the part' and oblivious to each other. Almost funny if it weren't such a waste of resources.

Now, without seeing the complete, classified report it is hard to judge how much detail (including specifics on organizations) we don't know about. I think that the Obama portions are 'icing' upon a previous version of the report, which is why they are lacking in specifics - which leaves us wondering why such speculative paragraphs would be considered to be of use to law enforcement. What measures would domestic counter-terrorist officials take in response to these vague paragraphs? Debrief of all veterans being discharged? Covert 'infiltration' of various groups? Monitoring of blogs?

Does anyone have any detail on this?

223 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:57:03pm

re: #216 Eowyn2

what county you in?

Yellowstone

224 Patriot  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:57:26pm

Charles, et al,

Say what you will about The Report, many have & more will.

But the key is whether it represents something more than ill-timed, poor research.

You decide, "Napolitano Unsure if Al Qaeda Or Right Wing Terrorists Bigger Threat to America".

I'm not getting a good vibe that Janet's DHS has their priorities straight...

225 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:57:52pm

re: #215 Hawaii69

That's the kind of paranoid delusional country I want to live in. The kind that worries about a single veteran simply becuase he has political differences with the current administration. Individuals with no history of violence or advocating violence or membership in know violent hate groups. Let's keep in real vague like so everybody is a suspect who disagrees with Washington. What could go wrong?

226 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:58:01pm

re: #213 american sabra

Why in the world would my fear of disgruntled rigntwingers be any different than my fear of disgruntled leftwingers? You really don't get the point, do you? People tend to get crazy in numbers and do really stupid things that they wouldn't normally do by themselves. THAT'S what scares me. I think it's bizarre from any party.

Each party has their wackos. You all just won't admit to yours.

I admit there are wackos in ever party even those who claim to be on my side, have the same party affiliation, and where the same colors. You were saying?

227 sleepyone  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:58:46pm

re: #147 american sabra

I would very much disagree with your first paragraph. A bunch of wackos screaming BURN THE BOOKS (what Charles posted the other day) and how President Obama is a commie pinko nutjob who can't wait to turn this country into Germany in 1941 and how he's going to barge into your home and steal your guns... well that's just about as loony as what goes on in the streets of San Fran.

Btw, people here honestly think that Ms. Burn the Books in that video was a leftie plant... my point exactly.

I also recall the lunatic fringe during the Terri Schiavo scandal. All rightwingers. Charles wasn't popular that day either....

As I recall, the "commie hysteria" went on in the Clinton admin as well as the threat of him taking your guns. None of which happened then nor will happen now, but who here will believe. Well I thought it was SOME here... but I'm beginning to see that it's pretty widespread.

I see this report as a warning, plain and simple, to police depts primarily. And I was thinking the same thing the other day when I first started to see the Tea Parties forming. Scared the hell outa me and still does.

I don't quite remember the details but the man in that video was on the radio the other day talking about that woman that shouted "Burn the books". Turns out she has several ranting videos at You Tube and has been exposed as someone trying to disrupt the proceedings. Whether she is a "plant" or not isn't important to me. But from what I recall she most definitely was there to act like a crazy right winger. Emphasis on "act".

228 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:59:03pm

re: #224 Patriot

No that's a person who's judgment deserves defending!

229 Archimedes  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:59:23pm

re: #38 looking closely

It appears to have been leaked.
And to coin a phrase, yes, I question the timing.

I too question the timing.

230 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:59:36pm

re: #214 PISSED

I know many average people that recently ( past 6-8 months have gone out and gotten CC permits ) and have bought guns and ammo.

Go to any of the shops around here (northern MA.. southern NH) the walls are empty and the shelves are bare, so to speak. I dont think all these guns and ammo are going to militia. They are going to your neighbors that are nervous.


Well, according this this DHS report, they're all potentially a bunch of rightwing extremists, and this is concerning to law enforcement.

If this doesnt' seem right, that's one of the reasons this report is so disturbing.

231 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:00:54pm

Well, I'm going to see if anyone braved the snow for the local tea party, talk to you all later.

232 pat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:01:54pm

For people who have dropped the word "terrorists" it is telling that the only terrorists are white Christians of no specific organization. I read this exactly as the author intended, a smear on conservative thought. A cliche from the beltway by a deep thinker from the left.

233 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:01:57pm

Oh and would someone please claim there's no extremism on the right, so poor Sabra has to quit making things up.

234 foray  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:02:25pm

re: #1 Mithrax

Think it'll work?

I can't believe it's been over 200 replies and nobody has yet said, "It'll take a miracle".

235 sfcmac  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:02:46pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

The fact that extremist groups exist on both sides of the political spectum is beside the point. Obama's intimidation tactics were practiced all through the campaign:
[Link: sfcmac.wordpress.com...]

[Link: sfcmac.wordpress.com...]

The jack-booted methods are now part of his presidential policy. Welcome to the USSA.

236 freetoken  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:02:59pm

re: #217 'Nam Grunt

Beware the ides of March, oh, this is April, nevertheless the left wing wackos are upon us and look just what they are trying to do at this blog and what they are doing to Free Americans, we can't let this happen folks man up and bring LGF back to the front to combat their lunacy.

Dude, get a grip. "They" are we, those of us here who don't see an enemy under every post.

I'm wondering how long Charles is going to put up with this crap on his blog.

As for me, I'm off to mail my taxes. I have to pay. It is not a pleasant experience for me, but one that I also fully understand is the outcome of 100 years of the American life in the 20th century. We live in the year 2009, not 1776.

237 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:03:12pm

OT -

In the future, you will have Brazil envy.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

BRASILIA (Dow Jones)--Brazil's government doesn't plan to reduce its public-sector primary budget surplus target this year to compensate for declining revenue, Finance Minister Guido Mantega said Wednesday.

Speaking during a hearing at the country's congress, Mantega said the government was making an effort to preserve public-sector investments and was working with cutting current spending in order to meet budget goals.

He said, however, that the government would not discard the possibility of cutting the surplus target if necessary.

"For the moment, we have no intention of altering the primary surplus target, but this isn't a taboo," he said.

Brazil has set a year-end public-sector primary budget surplus target equivalent to 3.8% of gross domestic product. The budget surplus funding is used to pay down the country's public-sector debt, which stood at 1.09 trillion Brazilian reals ($500 billion) or the equivalent of 37% of gross domestic product as of the end of February.

Brazil posted a 12-month primary surplus equal to 3.4% of GDP in February.

What is really compelling about this is that the Lula government is borderline socialist. Yet they are sunning systemic public surpluses and, in an economic contraction, are cutting spending.

238 kansas  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:03:18pm

re: #70 Ben Hur

Suddenly, soldiers are no longer committing suicide in record numbers. If at all.

In my local paper there was a big article about how the number of black inmates imprisoned for drug offenses was down some 30%. Praise Jesus.

239 rakkasan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:03:35pm

re: #51 sfcmac

"Distorted" my ass.

Charles, I've been with you on the vast majority of the issues, but I have to agree with sfcmac and a few others here. Yes, some on the right are going over the top with this, but the real distortion is DHS's warped view that bedrock traditional American views are now considered to be "extreme." Sorry. Not buying it. Nope.

240 anchors_aweigh  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:04:02pm

re: #190 Mars Needs Neocons

Mars, I will tell you why I think it was a "right-winger".

The Threat Assessment is UNCLAS/FOUO. Within DHS and the USG, UNCLAS/FOUO information is tightly controlled. UNCLAS/FOUO information is a sub-category of information called Sensitive But Unclassified (SBU). There are other types of SBU info, SSI, PCII, LE Sensitive...all tightly controlled at the federal level.

Post 9/11 there is/was a push to share information horizontally (multi-agency; ie state and local agencies). State and local agencies do not have the same information management IT system capabilities (SIRP/NIRP) that the feds do (Google the acronyms). In fact, they rely on unclassified off the shelf systems. So once the info gets to the locals and state LE agencies, it's katy-bar-the-door.

Do you think there are more right-wingers in law enforcement than left-wingers? Where do veterans tend to migrate after the military? I should know, I'm one, although a fed.

So if the information is loosely controlled at the local and state agency level, and right-wingers tend to migrate to LE work (and they do), who do you think is more likely to have leaked the report? Who would be more upset at the report? Who has the ability to leak it? Libs are artists, web designers etc...:)....they don't see SBU info.

Get my drift?

241 PISSED  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:04:38pm

re: #230 looking closely

I agree... take a look at the article i posted on #194 ..

So, if I have a NOBAMA sticker or a Gadsden Flag on my truck then I am possibly a domestic terrorists?

( I do and am I guess) : )

242 Mad Mullah  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:06:59pm

So, Gitmo is to be closed soon with some of the detainees being let free on American soil. The "War on Terror" is now known as the "Overseas Contingency Operation" and the government wants me to be worried about a few extreme rightwingers and a couple of neo-nazi scumbags, even invoking the taboo word terrorism, which I thought was banned now under the double speak of the current administration. Of course, we aren't speaking about Islamic terrorists, so in that case, I guess that it's perfectly acceptable to mention terrorism.

I hope that the Homeland security is also monitoring extremists in the administration, such as people who belonged to racist, hate churches in the past and people who have actually had relationships to terrorists in the past.

I've visited many liberal websites, and just about everybody here is considered a right wing extremist in the eyes of the deranged left.

243 Yosemite Bill  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:07:27pm

#213 - A.S.
Names, dates actions and locations of these dangerous folks please.
Yes each ideology has a lunatic fringe but DHS has just labeled as a dangerous large numbers of folks who believe in limited government, individual freedom and have the audacity to say so.... !
My point is that if you follow DHS's definitions the list will be several tens of millions long.

244 Scion9  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:07:38pm

re: #213 american sabra

First you need to claim as your compatriots, and then own up to the crazies that are 'registered Independents'; a title you apparently proudly bear. Above the fray, neither afflicted with the lunacy of the 'Left' or the 'Right', which must be neatly packaged as collective identity groups that each member of must answer for the sins of his ideological companions.

"You all..."

The DHS and no government agency, no matter what they do, who they watch and for what reason is going to be able to take away your fear of crowds or mobs. No government agency is going to be able to stop you from being a fool or a coward; your choice to which group you belong to.

245 markx  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:09:44pm

re: #127 Ben Hur

Translate, please.

RE: Is the leaker a whistle-blower or traitor?

More of a question. The statement says:

…assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies…


If the assessment was provided to state, local & tribal LE, how many

thousands

of copies are floating around? I can see some local yahoo sheriff’s office in west Texas leaking it.

Like I said, this is confusing me.

246 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:10:44pm

I guess here's how I look at things:

How many "Free Eric Rudolph" t-shrits have you seen? Or how about "Free the Un-A Bomber" bumper stickers?

How about "Free Mumia" junk? The guy speaks at college graduations for crying out loud (via teleconference, of course)!

Of course the right has their loons (rudolph and Ted K. would be such, in my book). The difference is that the vast, vast number of conservatives (I'd put it at about 99.99999% for five-9s accuracy) would never consider violence against their own country, under any circumstance. When one does commit such an act, it's likely that we conservatives are the ones charging up old sparky for the perp's reunion with destiny.

When a lefty blows something up or kills someone, if it is "for the cause" they become a liberal lion, celebrated in the corners of their liberal coffee clatches. Che worship; Castro support; we have an effing statue of V Lenin here in Seattle. But we're supposed to worry about the conservative gun owner instead...

247 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:11:32pm

re: #227 sleepyone

Really? Funny, the screaming woman's face was never revealed on that video so how did he know who she was? Or maybe there's just one lone screamer that attends each and every.... tea party? Rightwing book club? Neo-nazi rally? It's a vast Leftwing conspiracy I tell's ya!

248 looking closely  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:13:37pm

re: #229 Archimedes

re: #38 looking closely

It appears to have been leaked.
And to coin a phrase, yes, I question the timing.

I too question the timing.

Now that I've actually read the thing, I don't question the timing so much.

Instead, I question the report itself.

I'll summarize the whole thing in one sentence "We think that the Obama administration and its policy might energize right-wing lunatics into committing acts of violence. . .though we have no specific examples of this actually happening or good evidence to support this speculation".

I can't say I entirely disagree with the premise. . .it certainly seems plausible that Obama and his policies ARE going to anger some fringe elements on the right.

But given that this report seems to call out lots of otherwise reasonable behavior (eg being a veteran, opposing immigration immigration or other policy, buying guns, etc) that might fairly characterized as reasonable and normal political opposition, I can also see why this report has caused the sort of uproar it has.

249 HDrepub  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:13:46pm

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken

250 lurking faith  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:13:59pm

re: #137 Hawaii69

A "rhetorical tool" bombed a federal building in 1995, killing 168 people

Militias are a rhetorical tool. McVeigh was not a militia member; they didn't want him.

251 kansas  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:14:36pm

DHS see any problem in ACORN moving into foreclosed homes?

252 Patriot  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:15:03pm

re: #228 thebigolddog

Huh?

253 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:15:18pm

re: #241 PISSED

I agree... take a look at the article i posted on #194 ..

So, if I have a NOBAMA sticker or a Gadsden Flag on my truck then I am possibly a domestic terrorists?

( I do and am I guess) : )

I just got my Gadsden Flag to fly on my house. I got it when I read an article last year about the fact that liberals, en masse, were buying up American flags and I wanted something to differentiate myself.

Of course, when it goes up at the end of this month, I will hand out a letter to my neighbors explaining what the flag stands for and such so they don't get nervous. DTOM.

254 sattv4u2  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:16:54pm

The odious phrase in Napolitanos answer to the critics, IMHO

Rightwing extremism," the report defines in a footnote on Page 2, goes beyond religious and racial hate groups and extends to "those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely."

So anyone that favoring states rights over a large federal gov't is an "extremist'

Someoen wake up the Founding Fathers please!

255 razorbacker  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:17:28pm

A drive-by post.

The report was leaked. That much is undeniable. By who? Who knows?

Could have been a lefty wanting to put the rightists on notice. "We're watching you."

Could have been a righty wanting to put the rightists on notice. "They're watching you."

Could have been someone with a poorly developed sense of document security (my personal favorite).

How many people was this report distributed to? Hundreds, surely. Thousands? Yeah, I'd say so. Tens of thousands? Could have been. You get that many people in a group and they're not going to be marching in lock-step.

I'm not in the majority of the LGFers in that I do not assume that law enforcement automatically has my personal best interests at heart. There are a lot of law enforcement officers. They can't all like me. Most do, that I've personally met, but not all.

256 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:19:36pm

re: #252 Patriot

I was being sarcastic. She is obviously a complete moron.

257 davesax  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:20:03pm

I don't really understand all the anger, here.

Why does right wing extremism = conservatives?

Charles, you are the big mench of the blogging world.

I salute you.

258 Sleepyone  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:22:01pm

re: #247 american sabra

Really? Funny, the screaming woman's face was never revealed on that video so how did he know who she was? Or maybe there's just one lone screamer that attends each and every.... tea party? Rightwing book club? Neo-nazi rally? It's a vast Leftwing conspiracy I tell's ya!

I am sorry to say that I can't recall the details of his conversation. But he spoke at length about how weird he thought she was. I don't know about any other tea party crazies because I've only seen the video for that one where the woman shouts "burn the books". Anyway, that's my recollection of that incident.

I'm not saying there aren't kooks on the right. Just that using that particular video as an example may not be entirely accurate.

259 PISSED  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:22:20pm

re: #253 n2stox

Good on you! My Friend has a big one on his flag pole and I bought a bunch of 3 X 6 stickers for the back windows of my and friends trucks.

One of the guys just got it tattoed on his calf (ouch!).
I am not a conspiracy nut, or far right wing nut, I am in the middle leaning right. BUT I AM concerned about the direction this countryis going.

260 Patriot  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #256 thebigolddog

Yes, Arizona's gain is our Nation's loss. Or something like that anyway...

261 davesax  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:23:06pm

re: #255 razorbacker

Razor:

I'm with you.

I don't get the anger.

The NYPD tells officers in Brooklyn about monitoring of Arab neighborhoods for extremist activity, or Italian hoods for Mob activity, or Jewish hoods in Brooklyn for hate crimes against blacks and vice versa.

No ideology or cultural group is spared because of political correctness.

262 Sleepyone  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:23:33pm

re: #258 Sleepyone

I am sorry to say that I can't recall the details of his conversation. But he spoke at length about how weird he thought she was. I don't know about any other tea party crazies because I've only seen the video for that one where the woman shouts "burn the books". Anyway, that's my recollection of that incident.

I'm not saying there aren't kooks on the right. Just that using that particular video as an example may not be entirely accurate.

One other thing: I forgot to address your comment of how did he know who she was. The guy being interviewed on the radio program was the man who was also in the video speaking on camera asking the woman questions. I did not see that part of the video but they played the audio on the radio.

263 voirdire  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:23:58pm

I have to marvel when this kind of report represents the Department of Homeland Security of the United States of America. I don't care if it was leaked, stolen or released to the press. It is so vague as to be only useful politically. The responses to it are nothing more than a reflection of its merit to begin with.

264 rakkasan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:25:33pm

re: #242 Mad Mullah

I've visited many liberal websites, and just about everybody here is considered a right wing extremist in the eyes of the deranged left.

Yes. Exactly.

265 dhimmishelter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:26:54pm

Having just read the report, it is hard to imagine what propelled this hack at DHS to prepare such a sophomoric, tendentious and empty-headed report.
The "analysis" is so full of terms like "potential", "possible", and "it could happen here," suppositions that it is without meaning or anything resembling informative. I think this report reflects the predispositions of the author rather than anything approaching objectivity This poorly written report is an embarrassment to DHS.

I appreciate Hugh Hewitt's take on the matter:

The level of analysis is so childish and the conclusions so laughable as to tell us nothing at all except that the government employs some very, very limited "analysts" with big political agendas.

There are indeed right wing extremists in the U.S., a few of whom are dangerous. They are nowhere near as numerous or as dangerous as the jihadists here and around the globe. When Islamist terrorists strike at Americans or American interests here or abroad, it will be a fair question why DHS was allowed to waste its time and resources on such dribble.

My sentiments exactly.

266 PISSED  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:28:55pm

I found this comment on another website:

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano needs to mention the real threats to our security. After all, it's her job!

Why no mention of environmental terrorists who burn SUV dealers, spike stands of timber and torch apartment buildings throw red paint on people wearing fur coats?

Why no mention of ACORN thugs who sell muscle to intimidate businesses and local officials and undermine the voter registration process registering more voters in Detroit than there are people?

Why no mention of the original "yes we can" crowd, La Raza ("the Race"), who want to teach Aztec ways in our schools, want the borders opened and the Southwestern US to be given to Mexico?

Why no mention of the New Black Panthers, blatant black racists who demand reparations and openly encourage the violent overthrow of the US Government?

Why no mention of the Weather Underground who actually planted a bomb in the US Capitol, another in the pentagon and another in a police station killing people in the process and planned to kill millions of Americans in reeducation camps?

Why no mention of the Arab who shot up the Jewish center or the one who ran over people in San Francisco with his SUV or the one who attacked the El Al counter at LAX or the one who chopped off his wife's head or the one who killed his two daughters for "honor"?

Why no mention of al Qaeda? Have they just gone away or might they be planning something for us here?

267 rakkasan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:29:39pm

re: #246 n2stox

I guess here's how I look at things:

How many "Free Eric Rudolph" t-shrits have you seen? Or how about "Free the Un-A Bomber" bumper stickers?

How about "Free Mumia" junk? The guy speaks at college graduations for crying out loud (via teleconference, of course)!

Of course the right has their loons (rudolph and Ted K. would be such, in my book). The difference is that the vast, vast number of conservatives (I'd put it at about 99.99999% for five-9s accuracy) would never consider violence against their own country, under any circumstance. When one does commit such an act, it's likely that we conservatives are the ones charging up old sparky for the perp's reunion with destiny.

When a lefty blows something up or kills someone, if it is "for the cause" they become a liberal lion, celebrated in the corners of their liberal coffee clatches. Che worship; Castro support; we have an effing statue of V Lenin here in Seattle. But we're supposed to worry about the conservative gun owner instead...

Great point. Wish to hell I had made it.

268 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:29:49pm

re: #244 Scion9

Well maybe my ability to express myself in 10 sentences or less has been inadequate. I happen to think Charles is a smart guy (90% of the time). At any rate, I agree with him 90% of the time which is pretty gosh darn good for anyone.

Of course there are loonies amongst us all. I think I was saying that (I meant to), but it's the hypocracy I find funny, meaning always pointing to the Left and never to yourselves, even when there have been task forces set up to monitor these things. Maybe this is human nature, but I think it's dangerous to ignore it. It's a good thing it's there. If Bush set it up, it's a feather in his cap in my opinion.

"You all" is right. I can count on one hand how many support Charles on this issue.

I do fear crowds who love guns or want to burn books. But I do pretty well at the grocery store. Thanks for your concern :)

269 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:32:28pm

re: #258 Sleepyone

Crazy she was, IMO. The fellow who spoke to her seemed pretty freaked out by her also. But I don't think she was a plant AT ALL. And actually, neither was he, yet he obviously thought her nuts, too.

270 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:33:52pm

re: #266 PISSED

So many wackos, so little time?

I think this report is in addition to the other stuff. We don't know what other stuff there is do we? It's all confidential. THIS was supposed to be confidential.

271 Irenike  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:35:34pm

Dear Charles,

I respect your quest for the truth, and your unflinching commitment to the facts. Let me ask you something. Since the time you began going after right-wing loonies such as creationists, and since the time you started criticizing Republicans for hyperventilating about the DHS report, has your hate mail from left-wingers changed for the better in any way? Have any left-wing journalists given you credit for being clear-eyed about the problem of right-wing extremists in the Republican party? Have any MSM blogs or TV shows invited you to give your opinions about this topic? Has anybody apologized for calling you an extremist, and now sees you as a rational moderate because of your recent posts?

I am not being sarcastic. I believe you do deserve credit for this, but I'll bet you haven't heard a peep from your ideological opponents. If you have, please let us know, and I'll happily eat crow.

See, the main problem isn't the extremist loonies among conservatives. Left or right, the loonies are there. The problem is that those on the right are held to different standards than those on the left. That is why Obama never got defined by his associations with loonies such as Ayers or Dohrn or Wright. But now, because of the DHS report, my conservative views are suddenly suspect and linked with potential right-wing terrorist activity -- activity, by the way, that still exists as mere speculation, not as solid fact.

I'm in the hyperventilating camp, not because I don't think there are loonies in my political party (I know there are) but because I am being held to a different standard than a Democratic counterpart. This DHS report, in the end, is nothing but a big smear campaign. If it forces the Republicans to take stock of their ranks and boot out the fringe elements, great. It will have produced some good. But the harm I fear it will cause outweighs the good. It gives the MSM official government sanction to smear all conservatives and Republicans as potentially dangerous extremists while supplying even more excuses to ignore the very real threat of Islamist terrorism.

272 ohdear  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:36:38pm

The word "extremist" is a non-sequitor. It is not really saying anything. It is meant to draw fire and thereby cause the one accused to be self condemned by him assuming that he is the object of the attack.

The proper response is to ask, "who are you talking about"? And keep asking that question until the person answers or resigns. Every time she shows up in a news conference or on any dias on any subject about anything, that question should be asked to her over and over again. Be polite and persistent. Let that report be the hallmark of her term in that office. If she does answer listen closely and if possible record exactly what she says; then publish it. Words are very important.

Timothy McVeigh is dead. Who are you talking about? Details. Are you simply trying to get more funding for your Federal Agency? Are you talking about Islamic terrorists? Who are you talking about. Are you talking about Americans? Who are you talking about?

When the Roman Catholic organization wanted to blot out an outbreak of Christianity during the dark ages the first thing they would do is hang some other name on them besides Christian. And when those souls would accept that name then the Roman authorities would connect every dastardly deed imaginable with that name and then slaughter them all. This is nothing new.

The high ground is:
I am a Christian and I love God first and my neighbor as myself. Can I be of some help to you?

273 Sleepyone  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:37:16pm

re: #269 american sabra

Crazy she was, IMO. The fellow who spoke to her seemed pretty freaked out by her also. But I don't think she was a plant AT ALL. And actually, neither was he, yet he obviously thought her nuts, too.

Apparently this is the woman in the video: CookieCache

Supposedly her list of favorites on her channel revealed her left-wing stand and it was only after the Tea Party video that she purged her favorites and replaced them with Glen Beck type stuff. Read some of the comments on her page.

I only bring this up since it's being repeated on left-wing sites as an example of how "crazy" those right wingers at the tea parties are when in fact she may not be representative of the majority there.

274 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:37:58pm

re: #259 PISSED

Good on you! My Friend has a big one on his flag pole and I bought a bunch of 3 X 6 stickers for the back windows of my and friends trucks.

One of the guys just got it tattoed on his calf (ouch!).
I am not a conspiracy nut, or far right wing nut, I am in the middle leaning right. BUT I AM concerned about the direction this countryis going.

I seem to recall reading that the Gadsden flag is another one of the indicators that supposedly need to be watched out for. It outrages me that we live in such an upside down world that a proud symbol of our country's founding could be considered as radical and potentially dangerous.
Time to keep our powder dry.

275 PISSED  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:38:23pm

re: #270 american sabra

I just dont remember any of these type issues being raised in the pase administration... can you IMAGINE the leftists heads exploding and olbermann slobering all over his monitor if this document was written during Bush's tenure and had surfaced about the usual suspects listed above.

I am so sick of the HYPOCRISY that is what is fueling MY anger.....

276 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:39:03pm

re: #271 Irenike

I am not being sarcastic. I believe you do deserve credit for this, but I'll bet you haven't heard a peep from your ideological opponents. If you have, please let us know, and I'll happily eat crow.

I'll take that bet.

Check out Andrew Sullivan, John Cole, even Media Matters. They have all written positive things about me in the past couple of weeks, which kind of creeps me out to be honest, after they've called me every filthy name in the dictionary for years.

277 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:40:19pm

It's like buying a very expensive dog and having it bite your crazy uncle.

278 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:44:07pm

re: #273 Sleepyone

Ooo that is a find. I will look at it more tonight. If she is a plant, she's a bitch. I really hate people like that. I prefer the upfront approach.

However, if I recall she got a rousing applause at her Book Burning chant, yes? And the guy in the beard doing the talking earlier in the video was a bit out there as well.

279 Sleepyone  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:44:42pm

re: #278 american sabra

Ooo that is a find. I will look at it more tonight. If she is a plant, she's a bitch. I really hate people like that. I prefer the upfront approach.

However, if I recall she got a rousing applause at her Book Burning chant, yes? And the guy in the beard doing the talking earlier in the video was a bit out there as well.

Well, even a Borat can get the lemmings to chant every now and then.

280 Irenike  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:46:45pm

re: #276 Charles

I'll take that bet.

Check out Andrew Sullivan, John Cole, even Media Matters. They have all written positive things about me in the past couple of weeks, which kind of creeps me out to be honest, after they've called me every filthy name in the dictionary for years.

Charles, I am actually happy to hear this. I have not yet had a chance to look at these websites. Assuming that they are quoting you correctly (and not distorting your statements for their own agenda) it shows that there are journalists and bloggers out there who will give credit when it is due, even if they have to revise their own opinions.

281 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:47:11pm

re: #1 Mithrax

Think it'll work?

Insofar as they're making an effort to understand the viewpoints of libertarians, federalists, and veterans rather than treating them as members of a suspect class, I'm glad DHS is doing it.

282 Curt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:47:58pm

Regardless of how it got out to the 'net/MSM/etc....

I worked for 6 months fora a man who ended up wearing three stars and in the JCS a few years later. One day, in our staff offices, he noticed one of us had written a joking remark on a naval message, in regard to one of the ships we would be operating with. He called us into his office, and although the comment, in and of itself, we funny to us, not even cruel, he asked us: "How would you feel if you were a crew member on that ship, and, in the course of you duties, came up to our offices and happened to see this?" It was quiet, and without using anything other than a calm, clear, normal tone of voice, we got his point.

He went on to say: While we make make a joke once in a while, or even comment on something done not so well, unless it was an official report, and the comment worthy of the level of text, don't write it. Added bonus wisdom: The you'll never be called to account for the statement.

Someone, somewhere in the DHS offices, believes what was a footnote. The fact that is was part of an official document in print, means, the signing official (all reports in the government has that somewhere (or it's not official), and the signature means it is accepted for use and reference within the arena of authorized distribution.

That's how it works.

If it got into the report, either the signer was aware and agreed, or the signer didn't care to read it (not out of the realm of possibility), and/or, was greatly mis-served by the staff and the endless "chops" (eidts0 on such a document.

One officer I served with, had me re-write a report 35 times (that was re-write, edits...dunno, hundreds) in a 6 month period, for this report would have a major input as to the use, or the further production of a major weapon system. He, despite my bloodshot eyes, was giving it the attention required for such a decision that would be made, based on our evaluation. He approved every word in there, because...it was that important. Declaring "possible" enemies of the state, I feel should get such scrutiny.

He preceded the Admiral I began talking about here. The next guy (Admiral #1 here), I still recall bringing him a report, not of the same gravity, but a significant one nonetheless, and he sat at his desk, pen poised over the page. He looked me square in the eye and asked: "Is it right?" The onus was on my shoulders to have done my work well, and properly. I said "Yes." He signed.

Point: To handle official reports as a distraction and just sign when it hits your desk, provides "opportunities" like this to see what the "end users" have to say.

The DHS botched the report, IMHO, even if we never got to see it...

283 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:48:04pm

re: #275 PISSED

Your absolutely right there. Although I think Olberman's head exploded a longggg time ago. Not much left really. GET IT, LEFT REALLY? I made a funny.

Not a fan of the hypocracy either. Not when I see it here or anywhere.

284 freetoken  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:50:34pm

re: #273 Sleepyone

As I stated before (having posted all of that young woman's videos of importance here), she is obviously known by the organizer (who calls her by name) and it is obvious also she is part of that small town.

What you are choosing to ignore:

(1) those in the crowd who apparently approve of the videographer's comments;
(2) the speakers which include:
(a) the guy paranoid about the electronics;
(b) the brownshirt;
(c) the woman who wants to make mandatory reading in schools Skousen's (Birchist ) Mormon-ized re-interpretation of American history.

Charles has this one down pat: so many of you just are unwilling to accept the truth and confront it.

285 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:52:01pm

re: #276 Charles

I'll take that bet.

Check out Andrew Sullivan, John Cole, even Media Matters. They have all written positive things about me in the past couple of weeks, which kind of creeps me out to be honest, after they've called me every filthy name in the dictionary for years.

John Cole or Juan Cole? Juan Cole is the disingenuous ranter with the Israel problem. I haven't read much from John Cole but what I have bumped into seemed a lot more moderate.

Praise from Juan, and from Andrew Sullivan and David Brock for that matter, is worse than worthless; and I'd be creeped out too. I wonder what Bruce Bawer thinks, though; he seems to have his head on right...

286 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:52:42pm

I mean who can forget Mama Sheehan. You don't think Bush was following her (not him PERSONALLY of course). You don't think Code Pink is being tailed? Or whatever it is they do. Come on.

287 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:54:42pm

"throw the jew down the well,
so my country can be free'"
Come on everybody sing along !

Anyhow, I do appreciate Charles' research on these matters and I agree that I don't want to throw in my lot with these who would throw ME down the well.
But this DHS thing just had an attitude, that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Can't they focus on what we hired them for FIRST, before they become an all encompassing security apparatus ?
It's fortunate that I am not a joiner anyway.

288 Proximate  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:55:04pm

As Morrissey says on HA, perhaps better than I could:

"A few say that the DHS has to track threats and give these kinds of assessments. Read the report again. DHS can’t find any threats, nor do they provide even a hint that they have any evidence that extremism on the Right has increased. They don’t claim to see increases in fringe-group memberships from last year, or even last decade. This report is filled with nothing but completely unsupported conjecture about what might happen if people get upset about the economy or a retreat on American sovereignty. It’s not an honest national-security threat assessment at all. It’s a political hit piece aimed at this administration’s critics in order to cast them as extremists."

The documents to compare it against are similar threat assessments over the last eight years. We've had many incidents of eco-terrorism, but there are no documents casting suspicion on environmentalism in general. And wouldn't there have been a howl if President Bush did issue such a document?

I may lack firearms, and I'm not a conspiracist or militia member, but according to this report (which I *have* read), I definitely fit the profile of a right wing extremist. I guess I'll have to wear that badge with pride.

289 Sleepyone  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:56:20pm

re: #284 freetoken

As I stated before (having posted all of that young woman's videos of importance here), she is obviously known by the organizer (who calls her by name) and it is obvious also she is part of that small town.

What you are choosing to ignore:

(1) those in the crowd who apparently approve of the videographer's comments;
(2) the speakers which include:
(a) the guy paranoid about the electronics;
(b) the brownshirt;
(c) the woman who wants to make mandatory reading in schools Skousen's (Birchist ) Mormon-ized re-interpretation of American history.

Charles has this one down pat: so many of you just are unwilling to accept the truth and confront it.

I don't think I can be painted as someone who is unwilling to accept the truth, whatever that may be. I was only commenting that from my spotty recollection she was not there to be a sincere participant and her video is now being used by the crazies on the left as an example of the type of people attending the tea parties. I also believe the organizer who knows her name has been quoted as saying he's had run-ins with her before. My interpretation was that they are not friends but she is known to him.

I'm not pro or con about the tea parties. Frankly I think they are just a venue for people to vent and aren't going to accomplish much of anything. If anything the media will use the crazies in attendance to paint conservatives as extreme.

290 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:57:03pm

re: #286 american sabra

I mean who can forget Mama Sheehan. You don't think Bush was following her (not him PERSONALLY of course). You don't think Code Pink is being tailed? Or whatever it is they do. Come on.

Actually no I don't.

291 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:57:43pm

re: #285 Zimriel

John Cole or Juan Cole? Juan Cole is the disingenuous ranter with the Israel problem. I haven't read much from John Cole but what I have bumped into seemed a lot more moderate.

Praise from Juan, and from Andrew Sullivan and David Brock for that matter, is worse than worthless; and I'd be creeped out too. I wonder what Bruce Bawer thinks, though; he seems to have his head on right...

Even Juan Cole has mentioned LGF recently with less than his usual extreme hatred.

292 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:02:11pm

re: #246 n2stox

Of course the right has their loons (rudolph and Ted K. would be such, in my book).

Ted Kaczynski the unabomber? He was an environmentalist Luddite anarchist. The Left owns him.

293 Curt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:02:46pm

re: #288 Proximate

I definitely fit the profile of a right wing extremist. I guess I'll have to wear that badge with pride.

Just when you began to believe anything "Xtreme!" was a good thing, huh? :)

Maybe..it's all in how you spell it....

294 freetoken  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:06:05pm

re: #289 Sleepyone

If anything the media will use the crazies in attendance to paint conservatives as extreme.

Regarding the videos in question: they suggest a small town dynamic - everyone knows everyone else (see some of her other videos.) The videographer is no more a "plant" than anyone else who would choose to show up from that small town (unless you're suggesting anyone who wouldn't agree with that group automatically becomes a "plant".) If the organizer and her don't get along - well, that is true in any small community; not everyone will get along with everyone else. So the young woman is making fun of those she disagrees with in her community. In this case I would encourage her to continue as those people in the video need to be confronted.

More important is your contention that the "media" will try to paint conservatives as extreme. Here is where many of Charles' critics have missed the point - the so called painting will stick because so many of those who self identify as conservative are refusing to call out and ostracize the likes of Beck or those three people shown in those videos from OH.

295 dominic yeso  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:06:14pm

Frankly, I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion but I can understand why it came to that. This quote from JN is bothering me though .. "We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist activity but we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs". So how does one lookout for terrorist activity and ignore political beliefs at the same time?

296 sfcmac  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:07:43pm

re: #271 Irenike

"Hyperventilating" ....is that what you (and Charles) call anger over being labeled a threat to THE NEW SOCIALIST WORLD ORDER just because some of us are military veterans, gun owners, anti-illegal immigration protesters, and outspoken critics of Obama's Marxist policies? Pay attention not just to what he says, but what he's been doing. Obama is chipping away at our freedoms and individual rights. He's extorting trillions of dollars from taxpayers and literally taking over banks, corporations, and private industry. That, my dear, is communism. If you're not 'hyperventilating', you're not paying attention.

297 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:08:35pm

re: #294 freetoken

More important is your contention that the "media" will try to paint conservatives as extreme. Here is where many of Charles' critics have missed the point - the so called painting will stick because so many of those who self identify as conservative are refusing to call out and ostracize the likes of Beck or those three people shown in those videos from OH.

I'm glad to see that at least one person is getting my point.

298 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:09:58pm

re: #290 Jimash

Well sorry to say, but I think you would be ignorant. Or maybe you forgot about the whole phone call survelliance thing? Wasn't that the purpose of Homeland Security in the first place? To keep an eye out.

299 major  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:10:30pm

I am really confused. I thought the Dept. of Homeland Security wasn't going to call terrorists terrorists anymore. Remember, the new phrase is man-made disasters.

But DHS didn't seem to have any problem referring to right-wing extremism and terrorism in the same sentence or paragraph: "(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that lone wolves and small terrorist cells embracing violent rightwing extremist ideology are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States."

Did you get that part: "These domestic rightwing extremist ideology is the most dangerous domestic terror threat in the U.S." (see page 8 of the report in the grey area).

Has the threat of home-grown jihadists been replaced by the right wing extremists?

In the left-wing extremist report they didn't even define what type of person this may be and considered their activity non-violent.

Help me here, please.

300 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:13:25pm

re: #292 Zimriel

Ted Kaczynski the unabomber? He was an environmentalist Luddite anarchist. The Left owns him.

Ok, then. I just kind of figured folks lumped him in with the right. Throw in McVeigh instead.

i figured since he was bombing universities, the libs in their ivory towers would think he was right wing.

My point is still the same.

301 freetoken  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:14:10pm

re: #297 Charles

I'm glad to see that at least one person is getting my point.

It's not like you haven't stated point blank a thousand times....

302 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:17:31pm

Worrying about what the media says about you or what your enemies say about you is a losing strategy. It's playing the Left's game by the Left's rules and that is the surest way to lose.

303 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:18:06pm

re: #298 american sabra

Well sorry to say, but I think you would be ignorant. Or maybe you forgot about the whole phone call survelliance thing? Wasn't that the purpose of Homeland Security in the first place? To keep an eye out.

Um, Firstly, we have Police, State Police, FBI, DEA, ICE, BATF, etc.
They should be keeping an eye out.
DHS was created in response to a particular threat, and while they may have a wider purview than that, it's not like the threat is gone or taken care of.
Maybe they should watch out for Elohim city, brown shirt extremists and I am no fan of such people by a large fraction. But do the job we hired you for first.
Now, when I think about Code Pink, if somebody were following them,
wouldn't they have known that they were going to crash the RNC on Olbermann's pass and maybe told somebody, or kept them from harassing Gary Ackerman at his houseboat, or kept them out of the bailout hearings ?
Otherwise, what is the point, they are a bunch of middle aged nutty ladies, no ?

304 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:18:42pm

PS - Just ask McCain

305 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:20:37pm

re: #302 thebigolddog

Except this isn't the media. This is DHS.

There are millions of conservatives that own guns; don't like big gov;disagree with abortion anytime, anywhere; and vehemently disagree with many policies of this administration.

According to this report, we are potential "terrorists." - A term that DHS no longer uses even to describe Islamists that want to kill us all.

306 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:22:04pm

re: #302 thebigolddog

Worrying about what the media says about you or what your enemies say about you is a losing strategy. It's playing the Left's game by the Left's rules and that is the surest way to lose.

I could not possibly care less what the media or my enemies say about me. The opinions I express here are my own honest opinions. I've never posted a single word at LGF just to curry favor with anyone, right or left.

But if it makes you feel better to denigrate me by implying that I'm only saying this stuff to be "politically correct," go right ahead.

307 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:24:33pm

re: #303 Jimash

I'm throwing some things out there. I don't know specifically, but until someone actually commits a crime, there isn't anything police (any dept) can do about it. I would think they know their names and personal information about them in the very least. If I recall, some where arrested at certain times.

The survelliance started a year ago, yes? Who were they watching then? And who was doing the watching?

308 rob.schmitt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:26:00pm

So Charles, when the D.H.S. report mentions the recent election of an Afro-American President, did they mean Bush or Clinton.

/Just wondering,

//Oh yes, and hyper-ventilating.

309 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:27:12pm

re: #305 n2stox

I agree. I was referring to a specific comment that was fretting about how the media will attempt to paint the right as nuts.

Anybody who thinks the media is ever going to be objective is completely delusional. When you hurt your own cause they will pat you like a good dog. Otherwise they'll paint you any way they choose regardless of reality. If you want to be truly intellectually honest you speak your mind without regard to how the Media or the Left will receive it.

310 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:29:52pm

I don't know. And for sure they have been arrested and printed and I guess
SOMEBODY gets a holler when they are going to show up, or what would be the
point. They are nutty ladies. what do you think they are going to do ?
I guess I am missing the point here, but it seems there are a lot more dangerous people they could and should be watching.
i am definitely missing the point somewhere.

311 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:31:14pm

re: #306 Charles

You perceive slights where none exist.

312 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:38:26pm

re: #292 Zimriel

Ted Kaczynski the unabomber? He was an environmentalist Luddite anarchist. The Left owns him.

furthermore, I stand totally corrected, and my point is proven even further. Check this out:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

the far left wackos actually formed a campaign to elect the guy POTUS!

"It took the overt form of a political action committee, Unabomber Political Action Committee (UNAPACK). Influenced initially by ideas of the Situationist International, the group included anarchists, hard-core punk rockers, '60s types, eco-leftists, pacifists, militants and primitivists. Its supporters included decentralized anarchist collective CrimethInc., and the Church of Euthanasia".

Democracy Now actually interviewed the campaigners and tried to garner support for Lydia Eccles and Chris Korda as they campaigned on behalf of the Unabomber.

Granted, the chance of this coming to fruition is zero, but what does it say about the folks that spent time and money trying to make it happen?

313 american sabra  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:40:16pm

re: #310 Jimash

OOOohhh you wanted the point did ya? Silly rabbit.... I've lost the trail of crumbs myself.

A number of points really. DHS has been operating for some time under Bush, created by Bush. The info is confidential as it should be (should have been). I have no reason to doubt this report or any of the suspicions raised by it. To think it's a presidential conspiracy, oh excuse me, Obama conspiracy is pretty far-fetched.

314 rob.schmitt  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:42:17pm

Many people wondered why the Obama Administration dropped the phrase 'War on Terror.' It was obviously necessary to re-define terrorist to mean someone who opposed the Obama agenda. If you actually blew up a building at the Univ. of Wisconsin, or attempted to blow up police cars, police buildings, or U.S. Army bases in the U.S., you are a "distinguished educator" and "just someone in the neighborhood", but not a "right-wing extremist."
You are in step with Obama and NOT a threat to Homeland Security.

315 will_not_back_down  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:50:57pm

Wow a statement. Well better than nothing.

One positive sentence:


We are on the lookout for criminal and terrorist activity but we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs.

Than they should take out the reference to the 2nd amendments, etc they have in there.

316 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:57:45pm

re: #37 Mars Needs Neocons

I don't question the report or the fact it was begun last year. I question the timing of the release. This was specifically given to the press so they could all say, "Ignore all the protests, it's just a bunch of marginalized lunatic fringe right wingers". It isn't a coincidence that it was released the week of the tea parties.

It wasn't "released", it was leaked.

317 Ariel  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 2:58:39pm

re: #2 Occasional Reader

FIFJ

(fixed it for Janet)

This is actually a real problem. Are right wing extremists "terrorists" while Islamic "man-caused disaster" creators are not? Paging Orwell... At the very least, this is a legitimate ground for criticizing DHS and its head.

318 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:00:24pm

re: #51 sfcmac

Are you aware that stormfront's recruitment numbers went up the day after the election?

319 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:06:33pm

re: #90 looking closely

The report said nothing about the tea parties, btw.

320 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:09:13pm

re: #313 american sabra

OOOohhh you wanted the point did ya? Silly rabbit.... I've lost the trail of crumbs myself.

A number of points really. DHS has been operating for some time under Bush, created by Bush. The info is confidential as it should be (should have been). I have no reason to doubt this report or any of the suspicions raised by it. To think it's a presidential conspiracy, oh excuse me, Obama conspiracy is pretty far-fetched.

Oh, I never thought that. I just think it's the usual Bureaucratic Fairness through Unfairness, so thorough that they are ineffectual, doctrine.

321 J.S.  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:11:52pm

I think much of this has been blown out of proportion...The DHS report was (in a way) "understandable" ("understandable" if one defined "extremists" as those who are potentially the violent ones, like a Timothy McVeigh). Now, however (thanks, in part, to certain hyper-ventilators) "right-wing extremists" has been re-defined so as to include law-abiding individuals who voice an opinion...This "over-extended" definition now includes odious CNN "commentators" and letter readers who smear all "right-wingers" as "hate-filled extremists." So (o the irony) now that original mis-characterization by Malkin and others so as to have this DHS report defaming all conservatives (when, in fact, the report did not do this), has been taken up by Leftist MSM types and parroted...only sans the outrage. Thus, all conservatives are now "right-wing extremists."

322 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:13:52pm

And the phone call stuff never bothered me.

323 Benschachar  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:14:13pm

Heh. It just occured to me when I was reading the report and the comments of a select few "independents" criticizing Obama' s policies makes you a racist AND a terrorist.

324 quickjustice  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:16:24pm

When he headed DHS, Tom Ridge was a bumbling fool. Chertoff did a little better. At least he wasn't a constant laughingstock.

Homeland Security is still a hodgepodge of agencies that never have been integrated properly. I don't think they could persecute any political group if they wanted to.

That said, the best that can be said of this report is that it's not artfully drafted. If you're sensitive to Obama' politicization of the U.S. government, which also occurred under Clinton, and, to a lesser degree, under Bush, I can see why you might be concerned. And singling out veterans as a group particularly susceptible to extremist influence is a slap in the face.

Homeland Security are not yet a bunch of Brownshirts. There are Obama Administration initiatives underway to permit unprecedented surveillance of American civilians, as opposed to foreigners. That's worthy of some careful observation.

325 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:19:24pm
The primary mission of this department is to prevent terrorist attacks on our nation.

Terrorism? I thought terrorism didn't exist anymore?

326 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:22:01pm
we must protect the country from terrorism whether foreign or homegrown, and regardless of the ideology that motivates its violence.


That's why no mention of the left-wing "you be the weapon, with your hair cut short wearing a bankers suit" Ward Churchill pro-9/11 terrorism.

gotcha.

327 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:22:55pm

re: #111 rusty_armor

But why did she specifically mention the American Legion?

Because the President of the American Legion wrote to her about this, maybe?!

328 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:25:38pm

re: #113 MrSilverDragon

I would be in the minority in thinking that extremism on any side is a bad thing? You think I don't believe that they're aren't "loons" on both sides of the fence? Do you see me as that naive, even though we've never met?

I was merely retorting to your comment stating that if roles were reversed, we'd suddenly become blonde-headed cheerleaders of the cause. I strongly disagree.

I both agree and disagree with you. I'm concerned with extremes regardless of the left-right dichotomy.

But I think we'd be reading a MUCH different thread if this was about left wingers. The proof is in this thread and yesterday's where everyone is actually whining about a report on the left. If you think folks wouldn't be cheering that report, I don't know what to say.

329 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:28:11pm

"But why did she specifically mention the American Legion?

As I understand it, they were concerned about the seemingly blanket suspicion placed upon veterans .

330 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:37:46pm

I think this is a sad day for anti-idiotarianism. Too quick to assume the worst with no actual facts to back up any suspicions.

FACT: right-wing extremists have increased their recruitment since the election
FACT: right-wing extremists are using a populist movement to make inroads
FACT: right-wing extremists can even be found organizing this populist movement

331 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:39:40pm

re: #206 panamahat

OMG! Now we're fanning the flames of martial law?!

332 n2stox  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:47:20pm

Like I said earlier, this is a liberal's wettest of wet dreams.

Here they come:

Image: 2009-04-15-MSNBC-NewsLive-B.jpg

333 rb4269  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:53:13pm

re: #330 Sharmuta

FACT: right-wing extremists have increased their recruitment since the election
Statistics? Sources?

FACT: right-wing extremists are using a populist movement to make inroads
Names of Individuals or organizations? Sources?

FACT: right-wing extremists can even be found organizing this populist movement

Again: Names? Sources?

334 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:55:21pm

re: #275 PISSED

I just dont remember any of these type issues being raised in the pase administration... can you IMAGINE the leftists heads exploding and olbermann slobering all over his monitor if this document was written during Bush's tenure and had surfaced about the usual suspects listed above.

I am so sick of the HYPOCRISY that is what is fueling MY anger.....

What about the hypocrisy right here on this thread?

335 Tarheel  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:55:49pm

Just saying...
Six Things You Should Know About the Homeland Security
Report on ‘Rightwing Extremism’ FOXNews.com, by Judge Andrew Napolitano

[Link: foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com...]

336 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:55:58pm

re: #333 rb4269

FACT: right-wing extremists have increased their recruitment since the election
Statistics? Sources?

FACT: right-wing extremists are using a populist movement to make inroads
Names of Individuals or organizations? Sources?

FACT: right-wing extremists can even be found organizing this populist movement

Again: Names? Sources?

Well, it's a little hard to give you facts and statistics when you won't even believe the Department of Homeland Security.

337 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:57:12pm

re: #335 Tarheel

Just saying...
Six Things You Should Know About the Homeland Security
Report on ‘Rightwing Extremism’ FOXNews.com, by Judge Andrew Napolitano

[Link: foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com...]

And here's something you should know about "Judge" Andrew Napolitano: he's an admirer of some of the most extreme kooks in American politics, including Alex Jones and Lew Rockwell.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

338 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:57:17pm

re: #333 rb4269

FACT: right-wing extremists have increased their recruitment since the election
Statistics? Sources?

FACT: right-wing extremists are using a populist movement to make inroads
Names of Individuals or organizations? Sources?

FACT: right-wing extremists can even be found organizing this populist movement

Again: Names? Sources?

Stormfront themselves has said their recruitment is up.

There are front page posts at LGF documenting the radical paulians involvement with the tea parties.

339 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 3:58:28pm

re: #329 Jimash

"But why did she specifically mention the American Legion?

As I understand it, they were concerned about the seemingly blanket suspicion placed upon veterans .

There was NO blanket suspicion placed on veterans. The report very clearly says that only a small percentage of veterans might join extremist organizations.

340 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:03:38pm

Hey I didn't write the letter.
And I did say "seemingly".
This may be a tempest in a teapot, or there may be some whacko kooking afoot, but I think there are more than a few not-kooks, who feel that in some way this report or at least the leaked info about it seems to define extremism down.

341 tryptic67  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:11:26pm

re: #306 Charles

But if it makes you feel better to denigrate me by implying that I'm only saying this stuff to be "politically correct," go right ahead.

I don't think you're insincere or trying to curry favor. To be blunt, you could live to be 100 and morph into the next Ed Asner and the Left would never, ever forgive you for the last eight years so it's a moot point.

I'd like to see what Juan, Sully et al have said that is complimentary ... knowing those two, I'd be surprised if it wasn't a backhanded compliment ("even Charles Johnson *wink wink yes that Charles Johnson*) agrees with us so anyone who opposes the president must be a true hard-core rightwingnut).

Nevertheless it does seem clear you're pivoting pro-Obama - quicker to praise him than I think is warranted, quicker to defend than is warranted also. I wonder if it's your passionate objection to creationism that is the driving force. Sort of like how Sullivan pivoted when Bush praised the DOMA in the 2005 SOTU address. It is interesting to watch, I wills say that.

342 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:18:48pm

re: #341 tryptic67

Nevertheless it does seem clear you're pivoting pro-Obama - quicker to praise him than I think is warranted, quicker to defend than is warranted also. I wonder if it's your passionate objection to creationism that is the driving force. Sort of like how Sullivan pivoted when Bush praised the DOMA in the 2005 SOTU address. It is interesting to watch, I wills say that.

This is absolute, complete, unmitigated crap. I have not stopped criticizing Obama one bit, when I believe he's wrong about something.

I refuse to be a hypocrite, though, and just reflexively hate everything he does whether or not it's justified. Your attempt to tie this to my opposition to creationism is just ridiculous.

343 Bubblehead II  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:23:32pm

re: #342 Charles

Another one crawls out from under the barrell.

344 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:31:33pm

Well isn't this interesting:

Top Homeland Security Democrat objects to DHS report on “right-wing extremism”

Rep. Bennie G. Thompson of Mississippi, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said in a letter to DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano that he was “dumbfounded” such a report would be issued.

“This report appears to raise significant issues involving the privacy and civil liberties of many Americans — including war veterans,” Mr. Thompson said in the letter sent Tuesday.

“As I am certain you agree, freedom of association and freedom of speech are guaranteed to all Americans — whether a person’s beliefs, whatever their political orientation, are ‘extremist’ or not,” Mr. Thompson said.

345 tryptic67  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:51:21pm

re: #342 Charles

This is absolute, complete, unmitigated crap. I have not stopped criticizing Obama one bit, when I believe he's wrong about something.

I refuse to be a hypocrite, though, and just reflexively hate everything he does whether or not it's justified. Your attempt to tie this to my opposition to creationism is just ridiculous.

Sorry you feel that way. But the way you've defended the Obama administration in the (a) Ibn-bow kerfluffle [first saying it was no big deal; then that W did the same or worse, then apparently accepting the White House denial that it even happened and saying it was all ridiculous]; (b) the pizza gaffe [quoting an aol left-winger with approval]; (c) the pirate rescue thing [applauding the Obama administration in the face of what would appear to be strong evidence of Obama vacillation] and (d) now the DHS report [which I would posit is the real "pure, unmitigated crap"] seems to bear up my point.

Through each of these last topics .. .which have dominated LGF these past weeks .... you've become less and less agnostic (in the political sense) and more and more articulating the same line that is coming from the White House or pro-Obama types. Again, I'm not one of the ones suggesting it's a cynical ploy because there has been a lot of passion in it. If anything, though, if there is an anti-Obama reflex then you're matching it in your posts with a reflec to defend Obama against all comers during a time I think Obama has been committing gaffes one right after the other. Like the guy who said he didnt feel comfortable being loyal to Obama (which I think is legit .. loyalty lies with the Constitution and the nation, not it's political head) and invited him to move to Sadr City or your post 336 which is tautological.

Thus, I think it represents a pivot left.

As far as my thought it is linked to your opposition to creationism, it certainly looks that way a least to me. In its current state of disarray, big time GOP'ers right now like ID (e.g. Jindal) or are willing to turn a blind eye (e.g., Perry). You've been vehement about creationsim/ID and taking a lot of heat for it from the hard social issue side right. Thus, is it beyond the pale to suggest that the ill will and invective thrown your way by those types has soured you on the right, to the extent you link attacks on Obama gaffes as coming from the sort who are against you on creationism? Or is Obama the best defense against the threat you perceive from creeping ID/creationist thought in the public schools and public debates?

Otherwise, I'm having trouble figuring it out because the positions you've taken (like calling out Ed Morrisey as a hyperventilator) are inexplicable to me ... it's beyond just pointing out hypocrisy and a pox on both houses when it looks like you've jumped in the Obama trench and are machine-gunning his opponents as they pop their heads up beyond the wire.

Thanks for letting me discuss this.

346 tryptic67  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:55:24pm

re: #343 Bubblehead II

Thank you for the compliment, Bubblehead. I guess. Crawling out from under a barrel is sort of a strained allusion, though, don't you think? Have a nice day.

347 Strike Hornet  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 4:58:25pm

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo

And the timing of the release of this report with the Tea Parties today just further confirms this view.

This was particularly worrisome...the timing is very peculiar...
All day on CNN they were "discussing" the dangerous rise of Right Wing Extremism

I also agree that far left loons everywhere are now using this MSM blitz on this story as fuel...I too have received the same type of loon-mail the past few days

348 Bubblehead II  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:04:06pm

re: #346 tryptic67

Thank you for the compliment, Bubblehead. I guess. Crawling out from under a barrel is sort of a strained allusion, though, don't you think? Have a nice day.

Karma: 2

tryptic67

(Logged in)
Registered since: Jul 5, 2008 at 1:50 pm
No. of comments posted: 25
No. of links posted: 0

No, not an allusion at all. I post and I stand by what I post and gladly except correction when it is presented with FACTUAL evidence.

You?

VS

Bubblehead II

Peace Through Superior Firepower

(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 7, 2007 at 1:39 pm
No. of comments posted: 2,775
No. of links posted: 11

349 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:06:05pm

re: #345 tryptic67

Right, "thanks" for letting you "discuss" a bunch of complete crap that you made up about me and my views.

You're welcome.

350 Strike Hornet  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:14:07pm

re: #347 Strike Hornet

This was particularly worrisome...the timing is very peculiar...
All day on CNN they were "discussing" the dangerous rise of Right Wing Extremism

I also agree that far left loons everywhere are now using this MSM blitz on this story as fuel...I too have received the same type of loon-mail the past few days

btw, I know the DHS didn't release the report but whoever did did it for a reason and saw an opportunity here knowing the MSM would LOVE to turn this into a Right Wing Extremist rant for their far left base...MSNBChas gotten off thhis in a week...

351 Bubblehead II  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:30:00pm

re: #349 Charles

Right, "thanks" for letting you "discuss" a bunch of complete crap that you made up about me and my views.

You're welcome.

You expected different? Please, I know. I used to to run a community BBS called Haven BBS, both in Groton, Ct and here in Twin Falls, Id. I thought I was taking a lot of shit, But Pete K over at Sosaria took more than me. Then I implemented RIME and the fun really began.

Why do/did we do it?

352 tryptic67  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:34:18pm

re: #348 Bubblehead II

2,775 posts ... wow. Get out much? Have a good one.

353 ladycatnip  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:39:40pm

Has anyone read The Six things you should know about the Homeland Security report written by Judge Andrew Napolitano (not related to Janet)?

1. The summary contains few proper names, has no footnotes of any significance, lists very few sources, and is drafted with a prejudice against anyone who criticizes the role of the federal government in our lives today. It lumps together in its definition of “rightwing extremism” hate groups, anti-government groups, and single issue groups “such as opposition to abortion or immigration.”

Read the entire piece - it's well reasoned and level-headed.

354 ssn697  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:44:29pm

They guy was appointed by Bush. There was a similar report 2 years ago. There was also a 2006 report about the rise of left wing extremists. Same for 2001.

But NOW, it is suddenly an attack on conservatives (despite conservatives never being mentioned)?

America is so full of people wanting to be martyrs, it is sad.

355 Bubblehead II  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:52:06pm

re: #352 tryptic67

Everyday. I have a job.

///// Why do I play with my food?

356 Wendya  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 5:52:06pm

re: #16 american sabra

Why do I think that if Janet was a Republican, and the report was about Leftwingers, the Lizards would be pleased as punch?

READ the report on left wing extremist threats from the DHS:

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Compare and contrast it to the recent report on right wing extremism and note the tremendous differences between the two reports regarding specific groups and potential recruits.

This was a hatchet job.

357 greengolem64  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 6:07:26pm

re: #240 anchors_aweigh

I think you meant SIPR/NIPR... ;)

358 kaymad  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 6:07:36pm

Over a year ago in the small town I grew up in, a cop was out looking for poachers. Instead of finding poachers, he stumbled upon a barn full of people and which smelled heavily of pot. The cop went back to his station, got a warrant and reinforcements.

They returned to the barn and found people from all over the country, some from New Jersey and Colorado. The land was owned by a Veteran, a young man known to be a trouble maker. Law enforcement found stolen military weapons, huge caches of assault weapons and ammo and 9-11 truther literature...one video was from an Al Quida big wig. Not much of this was in the papers, but my Dad is President of the county council and got it directly from the county Homeland security officer as well as law enforcement on the scene. Were these right wing extremest just because a vet owned the land and was arrested?

I've never hyperventalated before, but I can't help but think they are gearing up to pin anything that happens on mainstream conservatives. After all, aren't we all guilty of abortion clinic bombings? That despite no support for that sort of thing (when was the last one?), and no Presidential candidate to my knowledge pals around with former abortion clinic bombers who have been let off on a technicality. Last I heard it was Environmentalist crazies who torch new houses and trash science labs that were the biggest homegrown terror threat in the country. I feel this homeland security report was leaked for a reason.

359 greengolem64  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 6:13:56pm

re: #339 Charles

Maybe it was 'blanket suspicion' of a small number of veterans...

/sarc

360 LesLein  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 6:17:01pm

On October 11, 1991 the Senate Judiciary Committee staff interviewed Susan Hoerchner, Anita Hill's main corroborating witness. During her interview Hoerchner said, in the face of hostile interrogation, that her 1981 calls with Hill concerning Thomas occurred in the spring of 1981 while she lived in Washington, DC. Earlier Hoerchner had told a staff member and the FBI that her phone calls with Hill occurred in the spring of 1981.

Hill's attorney asked for a brief recess. Senator Biden's aide granted the request. After talking to Hill's attorney, Hoerchner could not remember when the conversation took place or where she lived at the time.

The significance is that the spring of 1981 was months before Hill started working for Thomas. Hoerchner never disputed the transcripts of her interviews, but claimed a memory problem. Hill testified on October 11, 1991 that on the day Thomas was nominated to be a Justice, Hoerchner "reminded" her that she was harassed.

Hill's attorney justifiably claimed attorney-client privilege when questioned on the subject when she was appointed to a Clinton Administration position.

The name of Hill's attorney: Janet Napolitano.

Hoerchner and Napolitano got away with it.

361 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 6:21:12pm

Secretary Janet Napolitano
Department of Homeland Security
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Washington, DC 20528

April 13, 2009


Dear Secretary Napolitano,

On behalf of the 2.6 million-member American Legion, I am stating my concern about your April 7 report, "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence and Recruitment."

First, I want to assure you that The American Legion has long shared your concern about white supremacist and anti-government groups. In 1923, when the Ku Klux Klan still yielded unspeakable influence in this country, The American Legion passed Resolution 407. It resolved, in part, "...we consider any individual, group of individuals or organizations, which creates, or fosters racial, religious or class strife among our people, or which takes into their own hands the enforcement of law, determination of guilt, or infliction of punishment, to be un-American, a menace to our liberties, and destructive to our fundamental law..."

The best that I can say about your recent report is that it is incomplete. The report states, without any statistical evidence, "The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks."

The American Legion is well aware and horrified at the pain inflicted during the Oklahoma City bombing, but Timothy McVeigh was only one of more than 42 million veterans who have worn this nation's uniform during wartime. To continue to use McVeigh as an example of the stereotypical "disgruntled military veteran" is as unfair as using Osama bin Laden as the sole example of Islam.


Your report states that "Rightwing extremists were concerned during the 1990s with the perception that illegal immigrants were taking away American jobs through their willingness to work at significantly lower wages." Secretary Napolitano, this is more than a perception to those who have lost their job. Would you categorize union members as "Right Wing extremists"?

In spite of this incomplete, and, I fear, politically-biased report, The American Legion and the Department of Homeland Security share many common and crucial interests, such as the Citizen Corps and disaster preparedness. Since you are a graduate of New Mexico Girls State, I trust that you are very familiar with The American Legion. I would be happy to meet with you at a time of mutual convenience to discuss issues such as border security and the war on terrorism. I think it is important for all of us to remember that Americans are not the enemy. The terrorists are.

Sincerely,

David K. Rehbein
National Commander
The American Legion

This is the perception.

362 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 6:41:52pm

re: #354 ssn697

They guy was appointed by Bush. There was a similar report 2 years ago. There was also a 2006 report about the rise of left wing extremists. Same for 2001.

But NOW, it is suddenly an attack on conservatives (despite conservatives never being mentioned)?

America is so full of people wanting to be martyrs, it is sad.

You ain't kiddin'.

363 mich-again  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 6:55:22pm
As the department responsible for protecting the homeland, DHS will continue to work with its state and local partners to prevent and protect against the potential threat to the United States associated with any rise in violent extremist activity.

I wonder if an anarchist who tosses a bag of concrete mix from an overpass onto a bus full of GOP Convention delegates is considered a violent extremist or a political activist exercising their freedom of speech. How about if they spray bleach water in the delegates' faces?

So while the DHS looks under rocks for right wing sleeper terrorists, they don't have to look to hard to find the homegrown leftist terrorists. Just check the Police Blotter from St. Paul Minnesota during the Republican Convention last Summer where about 300 people were arrested, about half of them charged with felonies for rioting etc,. They could start with that cesspool of freaks.

364 tryptic67  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 7:00:08pm

I suppose this guy is another conservative martyr too.

365 Jimash  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 7:08:15pm

I'm no Martyr and not much of a conservative.
But I have read this report now and it is specific to 2009.
Though it may have been commissioned last year, it was quite apparently
written last week.


It does not mention conservatives, but it does link white supremacism
and ethnic hate to concerns over immigration control and industrial outsourcing.
And though it specifies a small number of veterans, it then goes on to say that an unnamed "civil rights org" says that large numbers of whackos are in the armed forces.
Small percentage or large number .
If they were whackos to begin with what do we expect ?
If we need the whackos to fight, then do we not owe them some respect, or
maybe some "reeducation" ?


PS I am not attacking the President.

366 under  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 7:10:22pm

Charles,

Please request a copy of DHS's report on left-wing extremists. There must be one since it's the responsibility of DHS to warn about threats to the US, right? No doubt the report will tell us how to identify dangerous left-wing extremists in our midst. Considering their description of right-wing extremists, no doubt they identify left-wing extremists as those who oppose the Iraq war, support pro-choice, support gun control, oppose stricter immigration law enforcement, oppose the Patriot Act, . . . There must have been a real threat during the eight years of the Bush administration. Considering the vicious verbal attacks/threats from the left over the last eight years, this must have provided a real breading ground for left-wing extremists.

This latest DHS report I'm sure will be very useful. Based on DHS' description of potential right-wing extremists, the solution is simple. As loyal Americans, all we have to do to keep America safe is to keep a close watch on anyone suspected of holding conservative views. I wonder if DHS has a report on Code Pink. I wonder if DHS has considered a study on the effects of prolonged exposure to the Daily Kos?

I also wonder how the far left is going to react to the very peaceful, lawful grass-roots tea parties going on across the United States. By DHS' definition, are these people dangerous extremists? If the left is capable of making death threats against AIG employees, and considering ACORN's proclivity for intimidation and the Daily Kos' daily ration of hate, what might these people do if tea parties continue to grow? I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a DHS report.

367 CEQAttorney  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 7:11:40pm

The problem I have, and I think other conservatives have, is the implication that if you hold some of the beliefs stated in the report, you may be a "rightwing extremist" and a potential terrorist threat.

The report does not provide any details as to why this is so except for "internet chatter" and singular events that are separated by time and space. We do not even know whether the recent shooter had any political views; he may have simply been crazy.

It would have been a valid report if it provided specific groups or activities that are terrorist or violent. For example, activities by "Stormfront" (I think that's the name of that group) could be considered a threat if they were particularly violent and widespread.

The issue is that there is no indication in the report that there is an actual problem. The DHS just "feels" there is a problem, I guess. If the report provided specific evidence of violent activities rather than just "feelings," it could have been valid, but it does not.

If you compare this report to the "leftwing extremist" group reports, they are specific. They mention ALF or ELF, which do have a history of violent attacks.

In addition, the issue regarding military seems very odd. It is fully inline with the liberal viewpoint that veterans cannot cope outside of the military and react violently. We see no proof that this is happening, but the report implies that it is.

In short, the report looks to condemn people who hold a view point because they may be potentially violent without any evidence that those people are violent. I would not have a problem if they reported some attacks by racist groups or radical pro-life/anti-abortion groups. I do have a problem when the report implies that if you dislike illegal immigration, intrusive government, gun control, or are against the government's current programs, you could be a "rightwing extremist" and a potential threat.

368 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 7:46:31pm

re: #367 CEQAttorney

I read the whole report, and I am frankly baffled and more than a little appalled at the way it's been distorted and spun. I didn't see anything false or outrageous in it at all. It's a threat assessment intended for law enforcement, to bring police and other agencies up to speed on a very real problem, and this hyperventilating is completely ridiculous.

It does not tar all conservatives with the extremist brush, it does not smear all veterans, it does not jump to unwarranted conclusions, it's a fairly standard government document, vaguely written and very general as all government documents are. I can tell that lawyers went over every word before it was sent to law enforcement agencies.

This is a phony, manufactured controversy.

369 flipflop  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 8:01:59pm

re: #368 Charles

But as an advisory to law enforcement, it's useless.

370 Billy Hank  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 8:23:22pm

re: #75 capitalist piglet
That's how I took it when I saw it, as did others. I got the impression people were laughing at the "right wing extremist" tag.

371 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:04:49pm

re: #369 flipflop

But as an advisory to law enforcement, it's useless.

Really? Are you in law enforcement? You must be, to be so sure about that statement.

372 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:05:57pm

Well Charles, I generally support your position of neutrality in heated matters, and I appreciate your attempt to remain calm in the storm, and certainly few if any admit as you on the web, errors and a willingness to be swayed by rational review,...

However it appears that Ms. Napolitano has now put a Big Target on Gov. Rick Perry's backside with this piece, which was not included in your quote:

""Rightwing extremism," the report said in a footnote on Page 2, goes beyond religious and racial hate groups and extends to "those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely."

Yes, Perry may not be in favor here at LGF of late, but this puts this matter in a new dimension. Texas retained the right to sub-divide into 5 separate states when, as a republic, it agreed to join the Union. She has her hand in the tar baby now! A US Gov. is now on the list?

The former AZ Gov. should have researched her position more thoroughly prior to her blanket response, at the least, n'est pas? Armatures in training!

373 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:22:30pm

My apology for failing to link, Charles: [Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

374 Pupdawg  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 5:14:23am

re: #5 Ben Hur

.....but we won't monitor the Mosques.

...or, the activities of man-made disaster by progressives such as the 'green' artists formerly known as eco-terrorists...only homegrown conservatives can be called terrorists, I suppose.

375 Dwayne  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 5:35:17am

Charles, I respect you man, but you're way off base on this one... Even democrat Bennie Thompson agrees there are problems with this report: [Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

376 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 7:53:49am

re: #328 Sharmuta

I both agree and disagree with you. I'm concerned with extremes regardless of the left-right dichotomy.

But I think we'd be reading a MUCH different thread if this was about left wingers. The proof is in this thread and yesterday's where everyone is actually whining about a report on the left. If you think folks wouldn't be cheering that report, I don't know what to say.

I won't argue that people would be happy with a negative report on the left leaning side, but I think that most here would at least have the discourse to discuss it without becoming mindless drones nodding uncontrollably as is often the case with many other sites.

It's one of the reasons I continue to come here.

377 drpangloss  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 8:13:16am

According to Obama and Napolitano: Muslim groups like Al Qaeda and Taliban should not be called terrorists.
According to Obama and Napolitano: American women and men with military service who oppose this administration policies are terrorists.
We need change.
For starters, Napolitano must resign.

378 KipAllen  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 8:20:24am

The thing that so concerns me and that I fear Mr. Johnson overlooks is that the DHS document is not warning against specific criminal groups or acts, but against political thought. It is this "thought crime" concept that makes it so dangerous.

379 iurockhead  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 10:02:23am

Well, apparently the top Dem on the House committee that has oversight of the DHS is also hyperventilating. He is making the same points that a lot of us "right wing extremists" are making about this crap coming out of DHS.

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

So, gee, Charles, maybe there really is some reason for concern, no?


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California Urged to Rethink 40 Years of ‘Piecemeal’ Freshwater Protections Ultimately the drought had relatively minor impacts on most urban Californians who suddenly had to do things like let their lawns go brown or – gasp – ask for water while dining out. But under the surface, 18 fish ...
Thanos
3 days, 9 hours ago
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VULFPECK /// Back Pocket (Live at Madison Square Garden)VULFPECK /// Back Pocket (Live at Madison Square Garden)buy on vinyl → vuuulf.com
Thanos
3 days, 14 hours ago
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EVGENY POBOZHIY QUINTET - Stranger Thoughts Evgeny Pobozhiy Quintet - Stranger Thoughts Evgeny Pobozhiy - guitar, compositionAnton Chekurov - saxNikolai Sidorenko - keysSergey Korchagin - bassAlexander Kulkov - drumsRecorded live @ Blues-minus studio, MoscowViktor Farafontov - sound engineerAndrey Galyamin - videoSergey Gasparyan - mixing2019 ...
Thanos
4 days, 23 hours ago
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191201 It was an ‘easy’ unchallenging weekend. While low key, we got a lot done. We worked on the upper wall, setting and pounding in the 72 bags we dropped in last week. There are now two courses done completely ...
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)
5 days, 8 hours ago
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Marvel Studios’ Black Widow - Official Teaser Trailer Marvel Studios' Black Widow is in theaters May 1, 2020. ► Subscribe to Marvel: bit.ly► See the poster: marvel.com► Learn more: marvel.com Follow Marvel on Twitter: ‪@marvelLike Marvel on Facebook: ‪facebook.com For even more news, stay tuned to:Tumblr: ‪marvelentertainment.tumblr.comInstagram: ...
Thanos
6 days, 4 hours ago
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Commanded to Love Some reflections on the the crucial role emotion can play in keeping us stuck in abuse — and in recovery and immunisation. You can support the channel at: patreon.com--opening quote:‘feel crime’ — the crime of feeling an emotion that ...
Thanos
6 days, 6 hours ago
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