Bobby Jindal’s Wife Promotes Science Education While Hubby Works to Subvert It

Science • Views: 2,354

A new survey of Louisiana residents shows that only 39% believe that the theory of evolution is supported by scientific evidence.

And that’s just sad.

But even sadder, in a pathetically ironic way: Bobby Jindal’s wife has started a foundation to promote science education in Louisiana.

Among those who have expressed support for teaching intelligent design in public schools is Gov. Bobby Jindal.

How ironic that Jindal’s wife, Supriya, has launched a private foundation to promote math and science education in Louisiana’s classrooms.

Maybe this education should start with her husband the governor, who promoted and signed into law a Discovery Institute-sponsored “academic freedom” bill intended to sneak creationism into science classes, and who hangs out with people like David Barton — an extreme fundamentalist preacher who has given speeches to neo-Nazi groups.

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420 comments
1 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:03:57pm

OK, so the wife promotes science while the husband subverts it. And you though James Carville and Mary Matalin had disagreements!

2 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:04:23pm
3 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:04:29pm

Maybe theirs is a Carville and Matalin sort of marriage. I know very little of Jindal or his wife.

4 AMER1CAN  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:05:18pm

It's a little more difficult to spot these types of loons. They are out there though and are dangerous.

5 MPH  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:05:23pm

What is her stance on exorcisms?

6 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:05:41pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

ha! I see we were posting close to the same time with the same idea.

7 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:05:53pm

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during their dinner conversations.

8 danrudy  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:06:01pm

sounds like a balanced and complimentary marriage

9 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:06:24pm

re: #5 MPH

What is her stance on exorcisms?

/Cardio or weights?

10 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:06:39pm

How does evolution explain Ron Paul?

That's what I want to know.

/

11 itellu3times  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:07:19pm

re: #10 Dar ul Harb

How does evolution explain Ron Paul?

That's what I want to know.

/

transcription error

12 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:07:38pm

re: #10 Dar ul Harb

How does evolution explain Ron Paul?

That's what I want to know.

/

Dead end.

13 Bobblehead  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:07:39pm

Good cop, bad cop.

14 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:08:03pm

re: #10 Dar ul Harb

How does evolution explain Ron Paul?

That's what I want to know.

/

He's a failed mutation.

15 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:08:31pm

re: #10 Dar ul Harb

Oh. That's "missing a link."

I see...

16 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:08:38pm

re: #10 Dar ul Harb

How does evolution explain Ron Paul?

That's what I want to know.

/

Non-viable mutation.

17 AMER1CAN  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:08:55pm

39% of people in Louisiana even know what evolution is? I'm shocked to be honest. What's the graduation rates down there I wonder.

18 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:10:10pm

re: #5 MPH

What is her stance on exorcisms?

They hurt a little, and there's lots of chanting and screaming, but after the demon is cast out, the holy water is very soothing, especially with a twist of lime.

19 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:10:43pm

re: #17 AMER1CAN

39% of people in Louisiana even know what evolution is? I'm shocked to be honest. What's the graduation rates down there I wonder.

That's an awful broad brush you're stroking with.

20 danrudy  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:10:59pm

re: #10 Dar ul Harb

my try...
He is either a Depurination or transversion error

21 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:11:07pm

re: #18 Desert Dog

They hurt a little, and there's lots of chanting and screaming, but after the demon is cast out, the holy water is very soothing, especially with a twist of lime.

I have heard that holy water with a little seltzer works wonders on those vomit stains.

22 AMER1CAN  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:11:10pm

I'm not even sure if 39% of people in Louisiana can even spell their own state correctly let alone know what evolution is! I'm being dead serious.

23 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:11:43pm

re: #21 Radicchio ad Absurdum

I have heard that holy water with a little seltzer works wonders on those vomit stains.

I'll have to try that the next we have one!

24 AMER1CAN  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:12:03pm

re: #19 pink freud


You are right. I guess I should have included the / for those two comments. My bad.

25 Racer X  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:12:09pm

Evolution is good, m'kay.

26 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:12:18pm

re: #22 AMER1CAN

I'm not even sure if 39% of people in Louisiana can even spell their own state correctly let alone know what evolution is! I'm being dead serious.

You base this on what?

27 danrudy  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:12:21pm

re: #22 AMER1CAN

c'mon...you dont mean that.

28 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:12:28pm
29 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:12:28pm
Maybe this education should start with her husband the governor

They do say education starts at home. Could make for some interesting dinner conversations.

30 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:12:38pm

re: #22 AMER1CAN

I'm not even sure if 39% of people in Louisiana can even spell their own state correctly let alone know what evolution is! I'm being dead serious.

They can cook like crazy down there though.....that cajun food is awesome!

31 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:13:15pm
her husband the governor, who promoted and signed into law a Discovery Institute-sponsored “academic freedom” bill intended to sneak creationism into science classes, and who hangs out with people like David Barton — an extreme fundamentalist preacher who has given speeches to neo-Nazi groups.

But really, guilt by association by association is pretty thin. Jindal is no Nazi. He's just wrong, or cynical (which I deem more likely) when it comes to evolution.

32 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:14:05pm

re: #28 HelloDare

Uh-oh.

Paging Kilgore Trout!

33 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:14:43pm

re: #28 HelloDare

I wonder if Bobby and Supriya ever do it monkey style?


NOT SAFE FOR WORK OR KIDS WARNING:

Position #43

Not sure about the Jindals, but the Desert Dog's may try it!

34 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:14:44pm

re: #26 pink freud

You base this on what?

Maybe on a visit to Louisiana? Spelling skills, judging by signs etc., are indeed lamentable.

35 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:16:21pm

re: #33 Desert Dog

NOT SAFE FOR WORK OR KIDS WARNING:

Position #43

Not sure about the Jindals, but the Desert Dog's may try it!

So we should call it doggie style instead?

/

36 pat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:17:04pm

Yep. This is what happens in real families.

37 AMER1CAN  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:17:09pm

lol I was only joking folks. Man, if you leave off that /, people will ding the shit out of you. Well deserved I suppose.

38 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:17:27pm

re: #31 lostlakehiker

But really, guilt by association by association is pretty thin. Jindal is no Nazi. He's just wrong, or cynical (which I deem more likely) when it comes to evolution.

Bobby Jindal's Creationism and Alliance with David Barton:

Journalist Frederick Clarkson reported in October 2006 that Jindal and Barton visited Baptist churches in Alexandria, Bossier City, and West Monroe. Describing these visits on Barton’s Wallbuilders Live! radio program a few days later (October 18 & 19, 2006), Jindal praised Barton’s pseudo-history: “Dave did a fantastic job, went to three churches with us, just reminding us of our nation’s history [and] heritage.” Barton, calling Jindal a “product of what we were able to put in office in 2004” because of the “huge increase in Christian voter turnout,” praised Jindal’s desire to “make a difference in the culture war.”

39 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:17:28pm

re: #31 lostlakehiker

But really, guilt by association by association is pretty thin. Jindal is no Nazi. He's just wrong, or cynical (which I deem more likely) when it comes to evolution.

I like Jindal's view on most things. The fact that he is a devout Christian does not bother me at all with the exception of his ID stance. The Republicans need to find new faces and fresh takes on the ideas that got them in power back in the 80's. We are all hungry for such leaders.....

40 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:19:37pm

re: #34 lostlakehiker

Maybe on a visit to Louisiana? Spelling skills, judging by signs etc., are indeed lamentable.

Hmm. Ok, let's see. I have been to Kentucky, Georgia, California, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Seattle, Oregon, Michigan, Ohio, North and South Caroline, Tennessee, Arkansas, Colorado, Arizona, Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, Mississippi and probably a few others. I have run across uneducated and intelligent people in each place. I have seen ignorance that would take your breath away, all across this country. Dare I say it exists where you live too.

Leave my state alone.

41 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:20:29pm

I'd just like to the governor support civics. Religion belongs in church, not in public school science classrooms. He can believe whatever he'd like about evolution, but undermining the Constitution is unacceptable.

42 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:20:43pm

re: #33 Desert Dog

That's gotta hurt, unless you're a kangaroo.

43 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:20:44pm

Jindal's friend David Barton calls the separation of church and state "a myth."

44 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:20:59pm
Just in time for the bicentennial observance of Charles Darwin’s birth, a new survey of Louisiana residents shows 40 percent of the respondents believe evolution is not well-supported by evidence or generally accepted within the scientific community.

Any links? I can't find the actual story that posted those results anywhere. I'd like to see how the question was actually worded to see if that explains why the La. results are different than the National results before I dive right into Bobby Bouchet jokes.

45 pat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:21:41pm

If evolution existed, Washington DC would not.

46 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:21:42pm

wow, maybe there is hope for bobby, after all.
he needs to listen to his wife.

47 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:22:16pm

re: #45 pat

If evolution existed, Washington DC would not.

devolution?

48 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:22:21pm

The Jindals are an immigrant family to LA/USA and are highly educated, and I believe, have a firm foundation in science. He's a Pol, and Bobby can listen. Honey succeeds where vinager fails. Try it on him, what's to lose, except more darts?

49 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:22:23pm

re: #39 Desert Dog

I like Jindal's view on most things. The fact that he is a devout Christian does not bother me at all with the exception of his ID stance. The Republicans need to find new faces and fresh takes on the ideas that got them in power back in the 80's. We are all hungry for such leaders.....

Unfortunately, being a creationist seems to be the politically correct thing to be among devout Christians. Or maybe they all really believe it. I don't know. In any case, it's a huge problem.

50 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:22:45pm

re: #45 pat

If evolution existed, Washington DC would not.

That's just not true. The Constitution is a constrained document, and the constrained vision relies heavily on...... evolution.

51 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:23:08pm

re: #43 Charles

Jindal's friend David Barton calls the separation of church and state "a myth."

Its not a myth. Thomas Jefferson first used the term "wall of separation" between Church and State 200+ years ago. And he kind of helped write the Constitution.

52 schnapp  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:23:13pm

wow. just had a huge cockroach come in the mail.
fuck i hate those things. ew.

53 danrudy  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:24:08pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

That's just not true. The Constitution is a constrained document, and the constrained vision relies heavily on...... evolution.

could you elaborate?

54 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:24:33pm

re: #52 schnapp

wow. just had a huge cockroach come in the mail.
fuck i hate those things. ew.

Was he trying position 43?

55 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:25:29pm

re: #43 Charles

Jindal's friend David Barton calls the separation of church and state "a myth."

Then I wonder what he thinks of the First Amendment. Especially the part about "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

56 Pietr  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:25:29pm

OT-from the downthread, please see this post, and give it your attention;

re: #1187 realwest

57 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:26:14pm

re: #49 HelloDare

Unfortunately, being a creationist seems to be the politically correct thing to be among devout Christians.

Actually, if you are a Catholic (and I am one, though pretty 'bad' at it) then creationism in right out, like counting to 5 with the holy hand grenade of Antioc.

58 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:26:21pm

Very, very slightly related. From the website Engrish.

59 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:26:46pm

re: #52 schnapp

Who mailed it?

60 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:27:01pm

re: #49 HelloDare

Unfortunately, being a creationist seems to be the politically correct thing to be among devout Christians. Or maybe they all really believe it. I don't know. In any case, it's a huge problem.

This is what bothers me as well. The USA was founded on religious tolerance. Every one is free to worship as they wish and everyone is free to do their own thing. We somehow managed to keep institutional religion out of the our political system. When you inject that into our political system, you automatically alienate the majority of the people. Don't these creationists see that? They will be a powerless minority if they keep it up.

61 gman  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:27:19pm

From Supriya's website:

In fourth grade science, the state of Louisiana ranks 35th out of 39 states examined.

hmmm I wonder why?

62 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:27:42pm

re: #51 Mich-again

Its not a myth. Thomas Jefferson first used the term "wall of separation" between Church and State 200+ years ago. And he kind of helped write the Constitution.

Uh, wasn't Jefferson in France at the time of the Constitution's drafting?

63 schnapp  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:27:44pm

re: #59 Ojoe

it was with the junk mail. it was disgusting.

64 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:28:08pm

re: #59 Ojoe

Who mailed it?

And I thought my junk mail was bad!

65 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:28:19pm

The Holy Hand Grenade

66 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:29:20pm

re: #57 Ojoe

Actually, if you are a Catholic (and I am one, though pretty 'bad' at it) then creationism in right out, like counting to 5 with the holy hand grenade of Antioc.

I meant to say devout Christian politicians.

Unfortunately, being a creationist seems to be the politically correct thing to be among devout Christians Christian politicians.
67 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:29:27pm

re: #61 gman

From Supriya's website:

In fourth grade science, the state of Louisiana ranks 35th out of 39 states examined.

Maybe teaching intelligent design as science will help.

/dripping

68 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:29:28pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

So right Sharm, what a evolutionary jump from the divine right of Kings in EU to - "we hold these truths..." (signed by one of my ancestors at his neck's peril)

69 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:31:13pm

re: #66 HelloDare

Politicians are nuts.

70 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:31:29pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

That's just not true. The Constitution is a constrained document, and the constrained vision relies heavily on...... evolution.

Not to be too much of a Contrarian, but the US Constitution as originally written, ratified and amended 27 times doesn't really mean all that much in Court in real cases. Instead, judges look at how the Constitution has already been interpreted by other judges in similar cases.

The Constitution and the amendments could be printed in a pamphlet that would fit in your pocket. The case law interpreting it would would fill a room with volumes of books.

71 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:32:28pm

re: #69 Ojoe

Politicians are nuts.

but, not all nuts are politicians....some are dentists

72 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:32:44pm

re: #61 gman

From Supriya's website:

In fourth grade science, the state of Louisiana ranks 35th out of 39 states examined.

But first in the eyes of God! /

73 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:33:44pm

re: #67 Charles

Maybe teaching intelligent design as science will help.

/dripping

Maybe, but I doubt it! LA is a strange place in the USA. But while I was in TX under Bush, he moved them up from about 48th to about 24th - by testing the teachers, first. The one's that screamed the loudest, did not past the new Bush test for teachers. There is hope!

74 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:35:32pm

re: #63 schnapp

it was with the junk mail. it was disgusting.

i hate roaches.
but they should be a creature we marvel at. they have been around since the carboniferous period. one of the ultimate survivors.
300 million yrs. ago they were 3 ft. long.
that is a hell of a roach.
i swear i have seen some here that are almost that big.

75 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:35:37pm

re: #57 Ojoe

Antioch

PIMF

76 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:37:24pm

re: #56 Pietr

OT-from the downthread, please see this post, and give it your attention;

Thanks for pointing that out.

77 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:37:46pm

re: #74 nyc redneck

There must be coal roaches in the coal seams, and they must get burned for power in power plants, and they must make 6 tiny little carbon foot prints.


Good Night All.

78 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:37:48pm

re: #70 Mich-again

Too True, but the Pres and Congress don't give a sworn oath to uphold all case law - just the Constitution. And that's how voters' see it.

79 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:37:50pm

re: #70 Mich-again

Not to be too much of a Contrarian, but the US Constitution as originally written, ratified and amended 27 times doesn't really mean all that much in Court in real cases. Instead, judges look at how the Constitution has already been interpreted by other judges in similar cases.

The Constitution and the amendments could be printed in a pamphlet that would fit in your pocket. The case law interpreting it would would fill a room with volumes of books.

One of our greatest inheritance from English Common Law.....it has usually served us well, but it does put you at the mercy of a judges whim at times. Once something gets interpreted a few times...that is the law, even if has the opposite effect of the way the law was written. And, in this day when all judges are politically affliated, it makes who picks the judges even more important.

80 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:38:02pm

re: #62 Dar ul Harb

Uh, wasn't Jefferson in France at the time of the Constitution's drafting?

Yes he wasn't in the room. But like I said he kind of helped write it. He kept in contact with James Madison while he was in France and was a prolific writer on the subjects of self-government, religious freedom, and freedom of speech.

81 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:38:59pm

re: #80 Mich-again

Yes he wasn't in the room. But like I said he kind of helped write it. He kept in contact with James Madison while he was in France and was a prolific writer on the subjects of self-government, religious freedom, and freedom of speech.

Jefferson was the one that insisted on the Bill of Rights. Madison wrote most of the Articles (with lots of help, of course).

82 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:39:30pm
83 CynicalConservative  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:41:00pm

re: #82 tom from pv

Bye tom

84 Jack Burton  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:41:09pm

The irony of this situation would be entertaining if children were not the vicitms.

85 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:41:37pm

re: #82 tom from pv

Ah, it is important, because our rationality is what makes us human, and creationism is fine, but creationism as science is irrational.

Really good night all.

86 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:42:09pm

re: #79 Desert Dog

The case law can "bit by bit" arrive at the conclusion that 1+1 =3 and the original wording of the law as voted upon is interpreted upside down. I have a real problem with that. Maybe once the opinions usurp the original law entirely there should be a summary amendment entered into the books so us dupes can know what the real law is.

87 gman  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:42:21pm

re: #67 Charles

Maybe teaching intelligent design as science will help.

/dripping

Yeah, if you're told that everything was created out of thin air, then why believe in those pesky scientific principles. Maybe they too are a concoction of smoke and well-placed mirrors.

88 itellu3times  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:42:23pm

re: #84 ArchangelMichael

The irony of this situation would be entertaining if children were not the vicitms.

Dinosaurs were the real victims.

Film at eleven.
/

89 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:42:25pm

Comments complaining about these posts will be deleted. Continue to complain and your account will be blocked.

90 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:42:34pm

Hey, it's gone up from when I lived there. Now, they can spell it.//

91 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:43:13pm

re: #85 Ojoe

Ah, it is important, because our rationality is what makes us human, and creationism is fine, but creationism as science is irrational.

Really good night all.

Good Night, Ojoe.

92 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:43:30pm

Well put, and good night, reality is a an agreed upon consensus - unfortunately.

93 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:43:43pm

re: #74 nyc redneck

i hate roaches.
but they should be a creature we marvel at. they have been around since the carboniferous period. one of the ultimate survivors.
300 million yrs. ago they were 3 ft. long.
that is a hell of a roach.
i swear i have seen some here that are almost that big.

F*** Gaspar Gomez! And f*** the f***in' Diaz brothers! F*** 'em all! I bury those cockroaches!

L8R.

94 swamprat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:44:06pm

re: #82 tom from pv

The most long winded post of that type I have ever seen.

95 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:44:54pm

re: #94 swamprat

The most long winded post of that type I have ever seen.

Now it's gone.

96 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:45:11pm

re: #94 swamprat

The most long winded post of that type I have ever seen.

The talking points build up over the years.

97 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:45:35pm

re: #94 swamprat

The most long winded post of that type I have ever seen.

I missed it, drat!

98 itellu3times  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:45:37pm

re: #92 Picayune

Well put, and good night, reality is a an agreed upon consensus - unfortunately.

Not really. "Consensus reality" is a social term, not something from the hard sciences. Reality is reality, and does not depend on consensus. That's exactly where the ID'ers go wrong, wailing about what they believe, or "what evolutionists believe". It's not about what evolutionists believe, it's about evolution.

99 swamprat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:46:25pm

re: #89 Charles

Comments complaining about these posts will be deleted. Continue to complain and your account will be blocked.

Post 2 had 2 comments in 2 years.

He had half that.

100 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:46:43pm

re: #86 Mich-again

The case law can "bit by bit" arrive at the conclusion that 1+1 =3 and the original wording of the law as voted upon is interpreted upside down. I have a real problem with that. Maybe once the opinions usurp the original law entirely there should be a summary amendment entered into the books so us dupes can know what the real law is.

It's a double edged blade, it cuts both ways. Lately, it's been cutting the wrong way. With the politicization of the bench over the past 50 years, Judges are now de facto legislators. Especially on the left. What cannot be passed into law by Congress and the Executive branch can now be "created" by a judge. There are still checks and balances, but IMHO it's slipping.

101 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:46:54pm

On an off-topic subject that I don't really want to make a front page post: you might have seen several right-wing bloggers yelling that a photo-op for Obama with troops in Iraq was staged, and that soldiers were all given the same digital cameras to act like they were ecstatic at seeing Obama.

Wrong again.

102 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:47:41pm

re: #95 Idle Drifter

Now it's gone.

The first post gets [deleted].

Been a while since I've seen that.

103 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:47:54pm

re: #88 itellu3times

Dinosaurs were the real victims.

Film at eleven.
/

With a little BBQ sauce and some nice aged hickory, them dinosaurs are good eatin! Maybe that's why the cavemen ate them all up?

104 slokat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:48:59pm

re: #62 Dar ul Harb

[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]

link to wall of separation letter, which by the way was not the reponse that the letter recievers had hoped to get...

105 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:49:36pm

re: #40 pink freud

Hmm. Ok, let's see. I have been to Kentucky, Georgia, California, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Seattle, Oregon, Michigan, Ohio, North and South Caroline, Tennessee, Arkansas, Colorado, Arizona, Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, Mississippi and probably a few others. I have run across uneducated and intelligent people in each place. I have seen ignorance that would take your breath away, all across this country. Dare I say it exists where you live too.

Leave my state alone.

I have been around also, and the ignorance here didn't hold a candle to what I experienced in Germany, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.

106 slokat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:49:44pm

re: #104 slokat

pimf - response

107 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:49:53pm

re: #103 Desert Dog

With a little BBQ sauce and some nice aged hickory, them dinosaurs are good eatin! Maybe that's why the cavemen ate them all up?

No no no. Dinos are like alligator--you need apple or cherry wood to give 'em a sweet flavor. Need to brine it. too.

108 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:50:05pm

re: #101 Charles

On an off-topic subject that I don't really want to make a front page post: you might have seen several right-wing bloggers yelling that a photo-op for Obama with troops in Iraq was staged, and that soldiers were all given the same digital cameras to act like they were ecstatic at seeing Obama.

Wrong again.

Looks photoshopped to me. Notice how they are all wearing the exact same clothes. Only the heads are different. /

109 schnapp  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:50:58pm

re: #74 nyc redneck

gross! that's huge!
i wouldn't mind if they became extinct though. (just don't tell PETA i said that).

110 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:51:26pm

re: #102 Dar ul Harb

The first post gets [deleted].

Been a while since I've seen that.

Someone actually posted "First"?

111 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:51:56pm

re: #107 calcajun

No no no. Dinos are like alligator--you need apple or cherry wood to give 'em a sweet flavor. Need to brine it. too.

I believe you as my alligator noshing is very limited. Does it taste like chicken? Rattlesnake does!

112 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:52:01pm

re: #104 slokat

link to wall of separation letter, which by the way was not the reponse that the letter recievers had hoped to get...

I wasn't challenging that aspect.

Danbury Baptists. I know.

113 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:52:03pm

re: #108 HelloDare

Looks photoshopped to me. Notice how they are all wearing the exact same clothes. Only the heads are different. /

Outstanding.

I salute you! :)

114 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:53:14pm

re: #111 Desert Dog

I believe you as my alligator noshing is very limited. Does it taste like chicken? Rattlesnake does!

Not quite. It's texture is unique-more like pork, really

115 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:53:23pm

re: #110 Idle Drifter

Someone actually posted "First"?

Heh.

No, that's left as a challenge for the next troll.

(It was this particular troll's first, and final, LGF post.)

116 swamprat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:53:34pm

re: #82 tom from pv

Oddly enough, his comments do not come across as trollish.

117 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:54:30pm

re: #98 itellu3times

Wow, I am not going into the evolutionist thing! Just this, in science, or anything, peer review is what - consensus, until paradigm shift, right?

118 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:54:59pm

Nite all, play nice

119 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:55:09pm

re: #101 Charles

On an off-topic subject that I don't really want to make a front page post: you might have seen several right-wing bloggers yelling that a photo-op for Obama with troops in Iraq was staged, and that soldiers were all given the same digital cameras to act like they were ecstatic at seeing Obama.

Wrong again.

I knew it was BS. When I was in the service we were ordered to cheer and applaud. When Gore showed up at our base in Germany as VP I was thrilled that I was on guard duty half a mile away, I wasn't one of the people ordered to stand up and cheer and act all thrilled for the cameras. You don't have to photoshop or put in fake applause, your CO's make damn sure you put on a nice show for the camera.

120 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:55:20pm

re: #89 Charles

Comments complaining about these posts will be deleted. Continue to complain and your account will be blocked.

//I demand more posts about chocolate...or I'll...or I'll...go eat more chocolate I guess.

*grin*

121 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:55:55pm

re: #112 Dar ul Harb

I wasn't challenging that aspect.

Danbury Baptists. I know.

Don't see many people named Nehemiah and Ephraim these days.

122 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:56:00pm

re: #102 Dar ul Harb

The first post gets [deleted].

Been a while since I've seen that.

Well, that's our first meltdown of the night. Can someone else put on the charcoal this time? I don't want to stand, since I worked 11 hours on my feet today.

123 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:56:54pm

re: #110 Idle Drifter

Someone actually posted "First"?

No, I didn't. It was the second post that got the hook.

124 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:57:18pm

A completely whacked out creationist editorial at the Norfolk, Virginia site MyCityTalk.com:

Where Evolution Has Gaps, Creation Might Offer Answers—If We Will Listen.

Trying to count the falsehoods and lies will give you a migraine. It's a compendium of almost every creationist talking point of the last 50 years.

125 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:58:14pm

re: #111 Desert Dog

I believe you as my alligator noshing is very limited. Does it taste like chicken? Rattlesnake does!

So does squirrel.

126 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:58:15pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

Well, that's our first meltdown of the night. Can someone else put on the charcoal this time? I don't want to stand, since I worked 11 hours on my feet today.

Bunions?

/

127 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:58:21pm

re: #115 Dar ul Harb

Heh.

No, that's left as a challenge for the next troll.

(It was this particular troll's first, and final, LGF post.)

Ah, well it must have been spotted almost immediately because they usually get a few comments in before the outrageous comment that zaps them off LGF.

128 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:59:21pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

Well, that's our first meltdown of the night. Can someone else put on the charcoal this time? I don't want to stand, since I worked 11 hours on my feet today.

We'll use one of those low to the ground hibachis so we can barbecue sitting down.

Eleven hour work day? Put your feet up; you earned it!

129 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:59:48pm

Tea Party Hawaii pic pic pic pic

Not a Paulian to be seen.......saw 2 TROOFERS leaving with their "inside job" banner.
Hard to say how many attendees......I guess over 400.....and I left in the middle...more people were arriving. It was truly grassroots. No whack-os.

Power to the Correct People!

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:00:37pm

re: #52 schnapp

wow. just had a huge cockroach come in the mail.
fuck i hate those things. ew.

Did someone send it to you, or did it just crawl in?

131 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:01:19pm

The Troll Trifecta:

Post the first comment to a new thread as the first comment from your new account, and get the ban stick for posting "First!".

(Although it probably requires more than just writing "First!" to get the stick.)

132 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:01:37pm

re: #119 Mars Needs Neocons

I knew it was BS. When I was in the service we were ordered to cheer and applaud. When Gore showed up at our base in Germany as VP I was thrilled that I was on guard duty half a mile away, I wasn't one of the people ordered to stand up and cheer and act all thrilled for the cameras. You don't have to photoshop or put in fake applause, your CO's make damn sure you put on a nice show for the camera.

soldiers know who is covering their back.
compulsory applause is no applause at all.

133 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:01:39pm

re: #52 schnapp

wow. just had a huge cockroach come in the mail.
fuck i hate those things. ew.

Most of us just ordered sea monkeys as kids. You had to be different, eh.

134 schnapp  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:01:51pm

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

it came in the junk mail.

135 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:02:30pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

No, I didn't. It was the second post that got the hook.

I've seen people post "First" and their comment ends up 2nd or 3rd. Pretty funny. I wasn't refering to you and Dar al Harb already gave me the low down. It was someone's first and last post.

136 Buster Bunny  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:25pm

re: #134 schnapp

it came in the junk mail.

shh .. everyone will want one.

137 HelloDare  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:34pm

137th WOO-HOO!

138 itellu3times  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:35pm

Crew members from the Alabama arriving at Andrews Air Force base or somewhere right now, on the teewee.

139 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:39pm

re: #127 Idle Drifter

Ah, well it must have been spotted almost immediately because they usually get a few comments in before the outrageous comment that zaps them off LGF.

Oh, I correct myself. They weren't actually blocked.
But they got a démarche.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:47pm

re: #104 slokat

[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]

link to wall of separation letter, which by the way was not the reponse that the letter recievers had hoped to get...

God, that man could write.

141 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:49pm

re: #135 Idle Drifter

I've seen people post "First" and their comment ends up 2nd or 3rd. Pretty funny. I wasn't refering to you and Dar al Harb already gave me the low down. It was someone's first and last post.

It was some inane sarcastic thing. I read it but promptly forgot it.

142 schnapp  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:55pm

re: #135 Idle Drifter

It was someone's first and last post.


does anybody have a violin? :p

143 itellu3times  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:04:06pm

re: #138 itellu3times

But not Captain Phillips.

144 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:04:38pm

re: #126 AmeriDan

Bunions?

/

No, just too much fat. I had a transaction that required multiple escalations and ran into multiple problems. I finally got things solved but it me 3 extra hours at work that I won't get paid for. Still, the customer left satisfied with me, and I did get the credit for the sale. So it wasn't all bad.

145 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:05:40pm

re: #132 nyc redneck

soldiers know who is covering their back.
compulsory applause is no applause at all.

That's how I always felt. Of course I was the genius who when asked by the new CO how I liked things and I was told to be honest, I replied "It sucks shit, sir!"

I was pretty sure my military career was going to be a limited time endeavor at that point.

146 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:06:16pm

re: #142 schnapp

does anybody have a violin? :p

See #139 Dar ul Harb. It was just deleted not blocked.

147 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:07:29pm

re: #129 IslandLibertarian

Tea Party Hawaii pic pic pic pic


Power to the Correct People!

Very good! :-)

It really is hard to support any movement, what with the nutters being everywhere.

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:08:33pm

re: #134 schnapp

it came in the junk mail.

Damn. I thought I was having trouble with getting multiple copies of the Newport News catalog.

149 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:08:50pm

re: #139 Dar ul Harb

Oh, I correct myself. They weren't actually blocked.
But they got a démarche.

Well, the author of #2, Rarest RX, has now been banned. I'll still take soda requests for the feast we are making of that troll.

150 Spar Kling  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:09:56pm

President Obama and the progressives want to bankrupt us and turn us into to yet another failed communist state, various religious sects want to turn us into a theocracy, the greens want to turn us into an uninhabited wilderness, elitists of every stripe want to make all our decisions with a pseudo- scientific, economic, academic, or political intimidation, a huge mob of crooks and scammers are climbing all over our country, constantly trying to get their hands into our pockets and pocketbooks, bureaucrats want to control our every economic, political, and metabolic action with fees, forms, and endless, incomprehensible, self-contradictory regulations, businesses want to have everything automatically deducted from our paychecks, checking accounts, and credit cards!

But now we can finally see it, that the biggest, vilest, most insidious threat of all, one that will destroy Truth, Justice, and the American Way of Life is . . .

-sk

151 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:11:04pm

Welcome home crew! Warm up the yard-arm, mates!

152 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:11:19pm

re: #148 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn. I thought I was having trouble with getting multiple copies of the Newport News catalog.

My guess it was in the Victoria's Secret catalog. No, if it was in the Cabella's or Sportsmen's Guide, then that was a weird insect.

153 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:11:20pm

re: #150 Spar Kling

is what?

154 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:11:57pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

Well, the author of #2, Rarest RX, has now been banned. I'll still take soda requests for the feast we are making of that troll.

Now trolls-- they taste like chicken.

155 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:12:04pm

re: #150 Spar Kling

But now we can finally see it, that the biggest, vilest, most insidious threat of all, one that will destroy Truth, Justice, and the American Way of Life is . . . Spar Kling and his fellow trolls.

Fixed, and then GAZE

156 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:12:41pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

I see.

157 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:13:45pm

Crew of Mersk AlObama arriving now on Fox.

158 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:14:02pm

re: #150 Spar Kling

The Spanish Inquisition.

159 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:14:27pm

re: #153 Bagua

is what?

"We have met the enemy, and they is us."
--Walt Kelly's Pogo

160 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:15:13pm

re: #150 Spar Kling

But now we can finally see it, that the biggest, vilest, most insidious threat of all, one that will destroy Truth, Justice, and the American Way of Life is . . .

apathy............but I don't care...........

161 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:15:20pm

(Al Jazeera link)

Guantanamo detainee claims abuse

"An inmate in the US prison facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has told Al Jazeera that he has been beaten while in custody and had tear gas used on him after refusing to leave his cell.

Mohammad al-Qurani, a Chadian national, said in a phone call to Al Jazeera that the alleged ill-treatment "started about 20 days" before Barack Obama became US president and "since then I've been subjected to it almost every day".

"Since Obama took charge he has not shown us that anything will change," he said."

.......

/that's because he is wielding the change stick on all of us, first

162 realwest  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:16:09pm

Hey good evening y'all - I saw FBV's comment on the prior thread and thanked him and all of you who supported him and are praying or wishing me good luck with my test results tomorrow.
I truly do appreciate it and am grateful to have so many friends out here on LGF.

163 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:16:10pm

re: #159 Dar ul Harb

Quote of the century!

164 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:16:40pm

re: #159 Dar ul Harb

Good point.

165 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:16:59pm

re: #162 realwest

Best wishes for tomorrow, Real. You are in my prayers.

166 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:17:36pm

re: #162 realwest

Hey good evening y'all - I saw FBV's comment on the prior thread and thanked him and all of you who supported him and are praying or wishing me good luck with my test results tomorrow.
I truly do appreciate it and am grateful to have so many friends out here on LGF.

Morning rw. I just joined the thread. How did the teat go?

Morning/Afternoon/Evening Lizards.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:18:17pm

re: #162 realwest

Hey good evening y'all - I saw FBV's comment on the prior thread and thanked him and all of you who supported him and are praying or wishing me good luck with my test results tomorrow.
I truly do appreciate it and am grateful to have so many friends out here on LGF.

We've all got you in mind, in whatever way we do that. Get some rest, you hear?

168 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:19:03pm

re: #162 realwest

Good night, Realwest.
Jackson Browne - The Load Out / Stay - Live 1978

169 Mars Needs Neocons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:19:48pm

re: #162 realwest

Hey good evening y'all - I saw FBV's comment on the prior thread and thanked him and all of you who supported him and are praying or wishing me good luck with my test results tomorrow.
I truly do appreciate it and am grateful to have so many friends out here on LGF.

Best wishes and good luck west.

170 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:20:07pm

re: #162 realwest

Remember RW, "Life is a State of Mind!"

171 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:20:09pm

re: #166 Erik The Red

Morning rw. I just joined the thread. How did the teat go?

Morning/Afternoon/Evening Lizards.

LOL. test.

172 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:20:20pm

re: #162 realwest

Hey good evening y'all - I saw FBV's comment on the prior thread and thanked him and all of you who supported him and are praying or wishing me good luck with my test results tomorrow.
I truly do appreciate it and am grateful to have so many friends out here on LGF.

Good fortune, RW. May your tests come out good.

173 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:20:27pm

re: #162 realwest

Lots of folks appreciate your kindness & respond in kind.
Hugs & prayers for the BEST possible outcome tomorrow.
{RW}

174 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:20:48pm

re: #150 Spar Kling

Sir,

You keep missing the point that has been repeatedly made here. The only way to keep this country from lurching to the left is to oust the socialists Dems from office and the only means of doing that is to elect the GOP in 2010. The problem is that there is a war for the soul of the GOP--and for too many years the GOP has had to drink the religious right-flavored Kool-aid (and I am a far-right Christian). Governors Jindal and Perry are no doubt two politics who had to imbibe in order to advance--and they are tainted as a result. Anyone who does so will be labeled with the religious loony label. In short, they are de facto damaged political goods--they won't play on the national campaign trail. The way to stop this is for the religious right to stop pushing its narrow agenda and embrace a wider one.

175 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:21:09pm

re: #170 Picayune

Remember RW, "Life is a State of Mind!"

Unless you're a leftie. Then life is a State of Denial. :D

176 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:21:15pm

re: #159 Dar ul Harb

"We have met the enemy, and they is us."
--Walt Kelly's Pogo

A member of the Jack Acid Society, no doubt.

177 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:21:25pm

re: #162 realwest

{realwest}you would have loved to have been at the rally tonight.
in fact, i thought of you.
hope everything goes great w/ your test results tomorrow.

178 capitalist piglet  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:22:24pm

re: #162 realwest

I will be praying for you, r/w. (You are such an inspiration.)

179 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:22:33pm

re: #162 realwest

All the rest is just *junk* and deserves NOT your time or attention.
In case you didn't know! :D

180 zombie  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:23:04pm

I'm slowly changing my mind about this creationism thing.

I mean, if Louisiana (or any state or country) wants to legislate themselves back into the Dark Ages, who are we to stop them? Want to teach your children gobbledygook and condemn yourselves to economic and intellectual irrelevance? Be my freakin' guest.

I would hope, however, that major universities in other states would stop accepting high school diplomas from Louisiana schools as being valid for admission standards. You want to beclown yourselves? Then we have a right to ostracize you.

I also sincereley hope that all sane parents take their kids out of any creationist public schools and set up their own reality-based charter schools.

Anyway, that's my current train of thought, because I have completely lost patience with these people. I know I should "care' more about the children of Louisiana, but if their own parents vote in these creationist knuckleheads, why must it be my onus to intervene?

181 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:23:35pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

Stop complicating the simple!

182 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:24:54pm

re: #176 calcajun

A member of the Jack Acid Society, no doubt.

If I were, I'd have gotten the quote right.

It's "and he is us."

183 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:25:10pm

re: #180 zombie

I'm slowly changing my mind about this creationism thing.

I mean, if Louisiana (or any state or country) wants to legislate themselves back into the Dark Ages, who are we to stop them? Want to teach your children gobbledygook and condemn yourselves to economic and intellectual irrelevance? Be my freakin' guest.

I would hope, however, that major universities in other states would stop accepting high school diplomas from Louisiana schools as being valid for admission standards. You want to beclown yourselves? Then we have a right to ostracize you.

I also sincereley hope that all sane parents take their kids out of any creationist public schools and set up their own reality-based charter schools.

Anyway, that's my current train of thought, because I have completely lost patience with these people. I know I should "care' more about the children of Louisiana, but if their own parents vote in these creationist knuckleheads, why must it be my onus to intervene?

The problem, Zombie, is that those same idiots are a national drag on the entire GOP. Their actions also unconstitutional. For the latter reason alone, intervention is necessary.

184 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:25:15pm

re: #70 Mich-again

Good grief- where did I say otherwise?

185 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:25:43pm

re: #162 realwest

Hey good evening y'all - I saw FBV's comment on the prior thread and thanked him and all of you who supported him and are praying or wishing me good luck with my test results tomorrow.
I truly do appreciate it and am grateful to have so many friends out here on LGF.

P.S. HoneyPie....
KICK ASS!
It's do-able, and if anyone can!
GO FOR IT!
{RW}

186 slokat  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:26:22pm

RealWest hope the tests go well and the results come in positive. (and going with the typo up the thread, if you are lucky maybe one of the nurses will show you her teats?)
;)

187 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:26:42pm

re: #80 Mich-again

Yes he wasn't in the room. But like I said he kind of helped write it. He kept in contact with James Madison while he was in France and was a prolific writer on the subjects of self-government, religious freedom, and freedom of speech.

No- he didn't "kind of" help.

188 realwest  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:27:08pm

Oh and hey y'all - I just got an e-mail from the Superior Court of California for the County of Santa Clara that there has been a settlement reached in a class action lawsuit agains Symantic - they make Norton Products. And if I have ever owned and upgraded to:
Norton AntiVirus
Norton AntiVirus Professional Edition
Norton AntiVirus for Macintosh
Norton Internet Security
Norton Internet Security Professional Edition
Norton Internet Security for Macintosh
Norton Personal Firewall
Norton Personal Firewall for Macintosh
Norton SystemWorks
Norton SystemWorks Professional Edition
Norton SystemWorks for Macintosh
Symantec AntiVirus for Palm OS
Norton AntiVirus for Palm
Norton Internet Security Premier
Norton AntiSpam
Norton SystemWorks Premier
Norton Confidential
Norton Confidential for Macintosh
Norton 360
Norton AntiBot
Symantec Mobile Security for Symbian – Series 60
Symantec Mobile Security for Symbian – Series 80
Symantec Mobile AntiVirus for Windows Mobile
Norton Smartphone Security
Then I'm entitled to the sum of $2.50! Of course, that means I have to sign some papers (electronically) - but don't have to give out any SSN or anything like that.
Have any of Y'all ever even heard of this class action lawsuit brought against Symantec by "BRUCE HEVERLY, on behalf of himself, all others similarly situated, and the general public and by "PHIL MARGOLIS, WENDY RADITZ, and NESHAMINY VALLEY NATURAL FOOD DISTRIBUTOR, LTD., individually and on behalf of all other persons similarly situated," as plaintiffs against "SYMANTEC CORP., as defendant?

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:27:43pm

re: #180 zombie


Anyway, that's my current train of thought, because I have completely lost patience with these people. I know I should "care' more about the children of Louisiana, but if their own parents vote in these creationist knuckleheads, why must it be my onus to intervene?

Hmmm. I know what my answer to that is, but I'm a liberal.

How about, because if this works, Jindal might become president, and then the whole country might be wiped out by volcanos we never saw coming?

/

190 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:28:04pm

re: #180 zombie

Agreed. And La should not accept the "gobbledygook" mushminds from SF/CA in LA, although Tulane accepts too much of that already. This is some squishy stuff.

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:28:30pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

The problem, Zombie, is that those same idiots are a national drag on the entire GOP. Their actions also unconstitutional. For the latter reason alone, intervention is necessary.

Yeah. He said it better than me.

192 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:29:17pm

re: #188 realwest

More than likely SPAM. Just delete it.

193 Killian Bundy  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:29:41pm

Sewing machine hoax hits S Arabia

Saudi police say they are investigating a hoax that has seen people rushing to buy old-fashioned sewing machines for up to $50,000 (£33,500).

The Singer sewing machines are said to contain traces of red mercury, a substance that may not exist.

But it is widely thought that it can be used to find treasure, ward off evil spirits or even make nuclear bombs.

It is believed that tiny amounts can sell for millions of dollars, the Saudi Gazette reported.

The paper said that trade in the sewing machines was brisk across the country.

Rumours about the sewing machines have been spreading for days by word of mouth and over the internet, it said.

These included rumours that foreign experts and companies had been buying up Singers.

In Dhulum, it was reported that people had broken into two tailors' shops to steal the machines.

In the city of Madina, people were holding mobile phones up to the machines, due to the belief that they could be used to detect the presence of red mercury.

/hmmm, sound like a good time to be selling red mercury, I wonder how much the Google keyword costs?

194 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:29:45pm

Well, as one, who chucked green jello at the Dr. with a plastic spoon ( now,really, WHAT else did they expect?)

Cereally.....

Youtube Video
195 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:30:00pm

I'm going to bed now. I'll see you all in the morning.

196 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:30:03pm

re: #188 realwest

Wow, I was a victim too for several years, though ghost has made up for a little of the pain, I'll still welcome the price of a pint of bear for each insult.

197 tom from pv  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:30:44pm

Yes I wasn't being a troll. Click delete seems kind of harsh.

I was just saying that science is self-correcting. And spending a few days of study on global warming or intelligent design is not a tragedy. Thats what science is about guys. Propose an hypothesis, prove it right or wrong if you can. If wrong, propose again and repeat the cycle.

NOT discussing things like global warming or intelligent design pushes the discussion out of the objectivity of the classroom, right? Is that really better?

BTW, I make my living as a Computer Scientist at a company that invented the GUI, ethernet, mouse, OOP, and electronic printers. I don't go to church, don't believe in creationism, but am very confident that the scientific method will always triumph in the end.

I do admit being somewhat taken aback by what seems to be a hair-trigger on the part of the moderator.

I have another post on the Tea Party thread, I'll have to go see if that got booted too.

198 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:31:20pm

re: #188 realwest

NO, and I have used their products for about 25 years w/ no problems to date!
What gives?

199 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:31:58pm

re: #194 Floral Giraffe

How many Ramones are left now?

200 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:32:06pm

i'm so tired.
i am never going to ever get a fruit cup.
i just wish someone would someday save me one.
good night good patriots.
(p.s.i love fruit)

201 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:32:44pm
the survey also showed that about 57 percent of the respondents favor teaching creationism in public schools.

Perhaps the idea of secession has some merit.

1/2 ////

202 zombie  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:33:07pm

re: #190 Picayune

Agreed. And La should not accept the "gobbledygook" mushminds from SF/CA in LA, although Tulane accepts too much of that already. This is some squishy stuff.

I assume Tulane, like all actual universities, has a normal biology department. This push for creationism in the school can only work in the specific K-12 environment; it can't survive the harsh light of college-level analysis. Even in Louisiana.

The only "universities" in the US that teach creationism are places like Bob Jones University.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:33:09pm

re: #193 Killian Bundy

Sewing machine hoax hits S Arabia


/hmmm, sound like a good time to be selling red mercury, I wonder how much the Google keyword costs?

Singer...that's a Jewish name, right? Hmmmm. /

My grandma had one of those, probably still has it. But she is an intellectual and a rational humanist, and would probably disapprove strongly of hoaxing the superstitious and ignorant.

Scratch that idea.

204 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:33:47pm

re: #198 Picayune

You may not have noticed the damage, it is insidious.

205 realwest  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:33:54pm

Well I again( started this on the prior thread just as Charles put up this one!) thank each and every one of you for your prayers/good wishes, very much.
It IS sorta strange to be seeing all this - starting with FBV's comment #943 on the prior thread - affection and support from so many folks out here.
And it DOES make me feel better, thank each and every one of you again.

206 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:34:51pm

re: #52 schnapp

wow. just had a huge cockroach come in the mail.
fuck i hate those things. ew.

If someone's mailing you cockroaches, you may want to evaluate your associations.

207 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:34:58pm

re: #201 solomonpanting

Perhaps the idea of secession has some merit.

1/2 ////

I'm not sure "secession" is the right word, something closer to "vomit out" may be appropriate.

208 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:35:31pm

re: #200 nyc redneck

i'm so tired.
i am never going to ever get a fruit cup.
i just wish someone would someday save me one.
good night good patriots.
(p.s.i love fruit)

I'll save you one.

209 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:37:08pm

re: #200 nyc redneck

i'm so tired.
i am never going to ever get a fruit cup.
i just wish someone would someday save me one.
good night good patriots.
(p.s.i love fruit)

Just ask for it to go. I did that once and littleoldlady put some in tupperware containers just for me.

210 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:37:12pm

re: #193 Killian Bundy

Sewing machine hoax hits S Arabia


/hmmm, sound like a good time to be selling red mercury, I wonder how much the Google keyword costs?

Isn't Red Mercury the key to creating the Philosopher Stone?

211 freetoken  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:37:17pm

re: #197 tom from pv

I was just saying that science is self-correcting.

But the issue isn't "science", it is politics.

In this case, the politics in the state of LA where it is unlikely for any politician to be able to withstand the onslaught of the many highly religious citizens. So that politician bends to the will of the majority, even though that majority is both backwards in science as well as ignoring the intent of having a non-sectarian government.

The Governor took the expedient route, not the correct one.

212 realwest  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:37:19pm

re: #192 Idle Drifter Yeah, I'm gonna do that - it's only $2.50 anyway. Just wondered if any of y'all have received anything like this?

213 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:37:21pm

re: #202 zombie

Well put, my point is that the most loony tunes in USA come from SF, creationist aside.

214 freetoken  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:37:41pm

re: #205 realwest

Be well Realwest.

215 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:37:49pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

I'll save you one.

Just made sure you save one of lol's and not red's tainted one. :)

216 zombie  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:38:33pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

The problem, Zombie, is that those same idiots are a national drag on the entire GOP.

I'm tired of trying to rescue an inept GOP too. What the hell is the matter with the Republicans, flirting with creationists like that? They must be out of their minds. Again, the onus is placed on us to save other people's asses. My altruism stockpile is running a bit low tonight.

Their actions also unconstitutional. For the latter reason alone, intervention is necessary.

Take 'em to the Supreme Court, then shut 'em down across the country -- like Brown vs. Board of Education.

217 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:39:20pm

re: #204 Bagua

True, but it is very thin skinned and will not stand the test of time!

218 realwest  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:39:48pm

re: #198 Picayune Well I'm not completely sure - I've never had problems with Norton either, but I gather from the complaint (which was in PDF format) that anyone who had a Norton Product and then upgraded it, didn't get any more time on the original product's subscription and then, having paid good money for the update to the product, no longer had the product!

219 NY Nana  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:39:49pm

re: #161 pink freud

Thanks a lot! ;) I was going to post a simple 'g'nite, all! Sweet dreams' and then I read your post.

It will take at least 5 minutes to clean my monitor! (Reminder to self: never have any water, tea, etc. in your hand when reading posts on LGF!)

On the far more serious side: those f*ing bastards never had it so good, and they deserved to be put into a real hell. Feed them all pork for 3 of their excellent meals a day, and also, I would guess, snacks, in their near-country club environment, complete with prayer shawls. And if they don't want it? [Deleted]

Remember 9/11!

G'nite, all. Sweet dreams...and thank G-d we live in the USA. We must be doing something right to be the object of such hate and jealousy. And pity the poor guards who have to deal with them.

220 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:40:25pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

well, thank you, {shar}.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:40:48pm

re: #210 Idle Drifter

Isn't Red Mercury the key to creating the Philosopher Stone?

Wikipedia indicates that it seems to be a global urban legend dating back to the eighties that this stuff is used in weapons manufacturing somehow.

222 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:40:57pm

re: #199 Idle Drifter

I don't know.
Their songs endure forever!

223 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:41:32pm

re: #180 zombie

Zom ...

Not all kids in Louisiana are representative of the stereotype. Two of my daughter's best friends in high school scored 1600's on their SAT's (standardized nationally), and my daughter was offered several four-year out-of-state scholarships. Educational excellence is heavily dependent on parental involvement and -- sad to say -- there are large chunks of Louisiana where parental involvement is virtually non-existent. Those large chunks produce those abysmal numbers you see ... the number of kids that excel in school are far outweighed by those who don't but that doesn't mean that kids from Louisiana should be discriminated against nationally (of course, I am speaking pre-creationism bill).

My kids did attend a public school, but overall I feel they both got an excellent education --- again, I was lucky that I could be one of those parents that volunteered at school, etc ....and I had high expectations.

224 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:41:53pm

re: #216 zombie

It's not about saving people. It's about defending the Constitution.

225 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:42:10pm

re: #209 x-wing

Just ask for it to go. I did that once and littleoldlady put some in tupperware containers just for me.

i hope it's american made tupperware.
:D

226 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:42:25pm

re: #212 realwest

Yeah, I'm gonna do that - it's only $2.50 anyway. Just wondered if any of y'all have received anything like this?

I usually mark as spam and delete almost ever message with special offers, holding money for a Nigerian Bank or sweepstakes that comes to me from a unknown source.

227 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:43:33pm

re: #180 zombie

Buddy, I quote Randy Newman's "Rednecks"

College men from LSU
Went in dumb
Come out dumb,too
Hustling 'round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
Gettin' drunk every weekend at the BBQ

The rest of the son is a slam on northern liberals, though.

This is a new phenomena and is not limited to LA. Here in CA, there has been a new appellate case holding that the Regents of the UC can require students to take remedial science (and history) courses if they had some of the Bob Jones curriculum in either their home or private high schools.

228 Bagua  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:43:56pm

re: #219 NY Nana

It would bother me to learn that they were not tormented in some way.

229 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:43:57pm

re: #218 realwest

Just saying, IMO, they are much better than most on market.

230 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:44:13pm

re: #223 pink freud

parents that volunteered at school, etc ....and I had high expectations

A vital key to a good education in any school system in any state.

231 Pietr  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:44:21pm

re: #215 Erik The Red

Erik-it appears RW finally has sought sleep. Pink_Freud is still here I think but lurking. So I entrust you with referring all peeps from here thru the LNDT, and enlisting Pinks' help, to go to this post, andgive it what they feel it deserves; they should also read the FBV post that triggered this.

re: #1187 realwest

232 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:44:33pm

re: #225 nyc redneck

i hope it's american made tupperware.
:D

Well it looked American ;>} Or at least Pennsylvanian Dutch

233 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:44:46pm

I was struck by the apparent differences along the scientific end between Bobby Jindal and his wife. Jindal is a local candidate and will never ascend into national politics.

234 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:45:31pm

Good-night lizards! Long day for me too, and I need to reserve my energy for a realwest prayer before I zonk.

Fun hashing over tea party day with you, no matter where you stand or sit on it.

235 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:46:23pm

Ah, off to walk the Akitias! Later y'all.

236 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:46:43pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Wikipedia indicates that it seems to be a global urban legend dating back to the eighties that this stuff is used in weapons manufacturing somehow.

How in the hell do these urban legends get started?

237 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:47:14pm

re: #220 nyc redneck

well, thank you, {shar}.

I'll stick it in BlueCanuck's secret fridge to keep overnight for you, Hon.

238 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:47:48pm

re: #231 Pietr

Erik-it appears RW finally has sought sleep. Pink_Freud is still here I think but lurking. So I entrust you with referring all peeps from here thru the LNDT, and enlisting Pinks' help, to go to this post, andgive it what they feel it deserves; they should also read the FBV post that triggered this.

re: #1187 realwest

Thanks Pietr went back and did the updings. :)

239 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:48:57pm

re: #209 x-wing

Just ask for it to go. I did that once and littleoldlady put some in tupperware containers just for me.

She saved some for me once- but only in a cheap, generic version of a dixie cup.

*sniff*

240 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:49:18pm

re: #223 pink freud

Actually, I'm kind of surprised. 39% is higher than I would have guessed. 40% oppose evolution. 21% "don't know" or are drunk.

241 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:51:39pm

re: #233 Gus 802

I was struck by the apparent differences along the scientific end between Bobby Jindal and his wife. Jindal is a local candidate and will never ascend into national politics.

We can hope. But the GOP isn't exactly batting a thousand these days when it comes to candidate selection and support. They chose Jindal to get the rebuttal to the psuedo State of the Union this year in order to raise his national profile. His presentation was, to be kind, weak. Whether that, and his bizarre views on science are enough to keep him down in the bayou are anyone's guess.

242 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:52:37pm

re: #239 AmeriDan

She saved some for me once- but only in a cheap, generic version of a dixie cup.

*sniff*

Oh! That means you got some of red's fruit cup ....

:D

/no one told you?

243 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:53:11pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Like I said earlier--it's gone up in the 20+ years since I left.

244 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:53:32pm

re: #219 NY Nana

"nite, Nana. Sweet dreams.

245 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:54:39pm

re: #223 pink freud

Educational excellence is heavily dependent on parental involvement and -- sad to say -- there are large chunks of Louisiana where parental involvement is virtually non-existent.

It's a national problem, really.

246 NY Nana  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:55:01pm

re: #228 Bagua

It would bother me to learn that they were not tormented in some way.

Same here. And I meant 'prayer rugs' instead of prayer shawls...too tired to type straight.

Can you imagine what they must say and do to the guards? If Hussein actually allows Gitmo to be closed, and the prisoners sent here, to the US?

/Let them stay at the White House and take care of the dog.

I am really off to sleep. I am also counting down the number of days that Hussein will be in office.

247 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:55:16pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Actually, I'm kind of surprised. 39% is higher than I would have guessed. 40% oppose evolution. 21% "don't know" or are drunk.

What's even more surprising to me is that -- even with those numbers -- Louisiana went red for the 2008 election.

248 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:55:39pm

re: #242 pink freud

Oh! That means you got some of red's fruit cup ....

:D

/no one told you?

*hic*

*belccch*

Darn that red! He assured me that was from lol. Come to think of it, he did have a gleam in his eye when he said it.

/white smoke

249 Parker in US  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:55:43pm

OK Charles I have spent the last 30 minutes watching a Keith Olberman interview that Huffington tin foil wearing stupid bitch what happened to you attacking that little bitch and that asshole?

Again I am asking you Bro are you going to LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY?

250 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:55:46pm

re: #241 SixDegrees

We can hope. But the GOP isn't exactly batting a thousand these days when it comes to candidate selection and support. They chose Jindal to get the rebuttal to the psuedo State of the Union this year in order to raise his national profile. His presentation was, to be kind, weak. Whether that, and his bizarre views on science are enough to keep him down in the bayou are anyone's guess.

I'm not very optimistic about the GOP since they're apparently rejecting pragmatism. Choosing Jindal is a mistake IMO but I actually expected them to do that since they're trying to appeal to a select voter base.

251 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:56:11pm

re: #234 Silvergirl

Night, and for the record: I celebrate the 4th of July and the liberty it proclaims - not April 15th, the day ACORN and their "gimmies" await annually!

252 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:56:24pm

re: #241 SixDegrees

We can hope. But the GOP isn't exactly batting a thousand these days when it comes to candidate selection and support. They chose Jindal to get the rebuttal to the psuedo State of the Union this year in order to raise his national profile. His presentation was, to be kind, weak. Whether that, and his bizarre views on science are enough to keep him down in the bayou are anyone's guess.

Part of the picture is that Blanco cooked her goose by her handling of Katrina ...it was Jindal's to lose.

253 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:56:34pm

re: #243 calcajun

Like I said earlier--it's gone up in the 20+ years since I left.

Any idea by how many points?

254 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:56:57pm

re: #239 AmeriDan

She saved some for me once- but only in a cheap, generic version of a dixie cup.

*sniff*

Well full disclosure, I was on daywork and caught her before I went to work. I'm sure she wasn't slighting you, it's hard to keep an open fruitcup from spilling in a lunckbox. She's so amazing,she thinks of everything.

/and just between you and me,she forgot that I didn't return the tupperware...shhh ;>}

255 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:58:24pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Actually, I'm kind of surprised. 39% is higher than I would have guessed. 40% oppose evolution. 21% "don't know" or are drunk.

Hey bud, I resemble that ;>}

256 Idle Drifter  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:58:53pm

Well I'm calling it a night. Everone take care.

257 NY Nana  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:59:00pm

re: #244 Pvt Bin Jammin

We have to stop meeting like this! ;)

How is hubby? I was too lazy to email, and honestly meant to while I was still semi-coherent.

258 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:59:26pm

re: #247 pink freud

What's even more surprising to me is that -- even with those numbers -- Louisiana went red for the 2008 election.

Is that a blue, red or purple state? I know there are a lot of Democratic strongholds. NOLA of course being one. It's hard to determine national elections sometimes. People tend to be less specific on party affiliation in national elections.

259 zombie  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:00:09pm

re: #223 pink freud

Zom ...

Not all kids in Louisiana are representative of the stereotype. Two of my daughter's best friends in high school scored 1600's on their SAT's (standardized nationally), and my daughter was offered several four-year out-of-state scholarships. Educational excellence is heavily dependent on parental involvement and -- sad to say -- there are large chunks of Louisiana where parental involvement is virtually non-existent. Those large chunks produce those abysmal numbers you see ... the number of kids that excel in school are far outweighed by those who don't but that doesn't mean that kids from Louisiana should be discriminated against nationally (of course, I am speaking pre-creationism bill).

My kids did attend a public school, but overall I feel they both got an excellent education --- again, I was lucky that I could be one of those parents that volunteered at school, etc ....and I had high expectations.

I'm not blaming the kids, whom I assume are as smart as kids from any state; but rather the voters/parents, who seem intent on abusing their own children with an upcoming creationism educational system.

My heartless "I wash my hands of the whole affair" attitude is not based on the currently existing situation in Louisiana, but instead on what would happen if Jindal and his appointees got their way and imposed a creationist curriculum statewide.

re: #224 Sharmuta

It's not about saving people. It's about defending the Constitution.

Maybe we need a test case to take it all the way to the Supreme Court so we can stop this nonsense forever. Fighting individual battles was not enough to end segregation: we needed a Supreme Court ruling to bring it to an end. I think the same may be necessary for creationism. So: Let one state (Louisiana for example) pass their creationist bill, appeal it to the Supremes, point out that the curriculum is promoting a religious viewpoint, and then get a ruling that will reverberate across the entire country.

260 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:00:19pm

re: #253 Gus 802

Any idea by how many points?

I was being facetious. I do think it probably went up some--given that some of the bigger preachers have gone by the wayside.

261 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:00:34pm

re: #248 AmeriDan

Speaking of Red, where is he? Did he make it back from his local Tea Party?

262 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:00:34pm

re: #249 Parker in US

When are you going to quit being an asshole guest?

263 realwest  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:00:45pm

Well, I have given up hope of reading this whole thread and making some sense of it all. I again truly appreciate and am humbled by all the kind words expressed about me on the prior thread and on this one and I assure you that they were unexpected and all the more wonderful for that!
I shall sleep well tonight, and I wish you all a very good evening/early morning and I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

264 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:01:00pm

re: #255 x-wing

Hey bud, I resemble that ;>}

I resemble that on occasion although I think I still wouldn't have no opinion. OK, maybe I would depending on my BAL. ;)

265 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:01:05pm

re: #236 Idle Drifter

How in the hell do these urban legends get started?

This one seems to be a Cold War special. Reading the Wikipedia article I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the germ of it was part of some operation by ourselves or the Soviets that planted the phrase, which then ran wild--flush out arms dealers by agreeing to supply them with 'red mercury' or the like. Apparently, there have been people who've tried to trade in this nonexistent substance.

Wiki also suggests that it may just have been a Soviet code name for some chemical substance actually used in weapons manufacturing.

The Soviets spent much of the eighties convincing something like half of the Third World that Americans were kidnapping children from Latin America and using them as organ donors--and damned if you still don't find that popping up from time to time on this left-wing website or that.

The Cold War was one hell of a propaganda war, and some of these ghost ships still sail on--impossible to sink, and very funny until someone gets killed in a red mercury scare.

266 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:01:24pm

re: #254 x-wing

/and just between you and me,she forgot that I didn't return the tupperware...shhh ;>}

Bad move x-wing. As a single male who doesn't cook, I've learned the lesson that you always give back the containers.

It assures future leftovers.

267 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:01:53pm

re: #263 realwest

Good night, be well.

268 calcajun  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:01:57pm

OK-- the wife has her shoes on--time to walk the dogs! Nite.

269 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:02:10pm

re: #260 calcajun

I was being facetious. I do think it probably went up some--given that some of the bigger preachers have gone by the wayside.

Ah, OK. I know science moves slowly in the United States compared to other non-third world countries. I think we're somewhere above Turkey in polling numbers.

270 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:02:29pm

re: #263 realwest

I couldn't read it all either, Realwest. You are in our prayers. Get some good rest.

271 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:02:30pm

re: #263 realwest

Well, I have given up hope of reading this whole thread and making some sense of it all. I again truly appreciate and am humbled by all the kind words expressed about me on the prior thread and on this one and I assure you that they were unexpected and all the more wonderful for that!
I shall sleep well tonight, and I wish you all a very good evening/early morning and I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

Good night realwest.

272 Pietr  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:02:48pm

re: #238 Erik The Red

re: #242 pink freud

OK, Erik and Pink-it's up to you to see the LNDT peeps see RW's post and treat it right,
re: #1187 realwest
Cuz I've gotta crash, and won't make it. Make sure they look at the FBV post as well, with the same intent-I know Dusty, Fenway,gmsc and others never saw either yet....Goodnight, Amigo and Amiga.........I really need to seek the warm sands.

273 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:02:48pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

It's a national problem, really.

An astounding number: 447,760. (65% of total enrolled)

That's the number of children receiving free lunch in Louisiana public schools. Extrapolate from that number any number of things, and the picture begins to emerge.

274 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:02:54pm

re: #263 realwest

Well, I have given up hope of reading this whole thread and making some sense of it all. I again truly appreciate and am humbled by all the kind words expressed about me on the prior thread and on this one and I assure you that they were unexpected and all the more wonderful for that!
I shall sleep well tonight, and I wish you all a very good evening/early morning and I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

Good luck Realwest.

275 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:03:04pm

re: #261 Pvt Bin Jammin

Speaking of Red, where is he? Did he make it back from his local Tea Party?

I've been in and out of LGF all day and haven't caught up with him.

276 Killian Bundy  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:03:23pm

Iranian scientists claim they have cloned a goat

Iranian scientists have cloned a goat and plan future experiments they hope will lead to a treatment for stroke patients, the leader of the research said Wednesday. The female goat, named Hana, was born early Wednesday in the city of Isfahan in central Iran, said Dr. Mohammed Hossein Nasr e Isfahani, head of the Royan Research Institute.

"With the birth of Hana, Iran is among five countries in the world cloning a baby goat," said Isfahani, an embryologist.

In 2006 Iran became the first country in the Middle East to announce it had cloned a sheep. Two and a half years later, that animal is healthy, the institute said.

/*snicker*

277 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:03:47pm

re: #249 Parker in US

Bye now. Take care.

278 Picayune  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:03:56pm

re: #252 pink freud

True, but in the LA "03 Gov race, too many "rednecks" thought Jindal was too dark to elect, we got Blanco (where's the 4 Billion LRA Fed $ hon) and the rest is history. Jindal is sharper than he appears.

279 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:04:39pm

re: #275 AmeriDan

I've been in and out of LGF all day and haven't caught up with him.

I was lurking during the afternoon and he mentioned the whole family was going to a Tea Party. Was looking forward to his report.

280 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:05:40pm

re: #278 Picayune

True, but in the LA "03 Gov race, too many "rednecks" thought Jindal was too dark to elect, we got Blanco (where's the 4 Billion LRA Fed $ hon) and the rest is history. Jindal is sharper than he appears.

Blanco was an emotional wreck during and after hurricane Katrina.

281 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:06:04pm

re: #279 Pvt Bin Jammin

I was lurking during the afternoon and he mentioned the whole family was going to a Tea Party. Was looking forward to his report.

I think red may have drank more than just tea today///

282 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:06:06pm

re: #259 zombie

There was a case- it was the Edwards case, and ruled creationism as unConstitutional. The creationists turned around and created intelligent design. I think it will get tested in the courts, whether it's from Louisiana or another state. I don't think these people will stop though. They'll try something else. You can't stop people from believing creationism. All you can do is protect the Constitution, the systemic process that protects religious freedom. As freetoken noted quite a while back, this has every bit a much to do with civics education as it does science education.

283 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:07:02pm

re: #281 Erik The Red

I think red may have drank more than just tea today///

Maybe he went to the Long Island Ice Tea Party by mistake. //

284 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:07:08pm

re: #281 Erik The Red

I think red may have drank more than just tea today///

LOL You think maybe he left us a little taste over on the sidebar?

285 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:07:30pm

re: #283 Gus 802

Maybe he went to the Long Island Ice Tea Party by mistake. //

LOL

286 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:07:38pm

re: #279 Pvt Bin Jammin

I was lurking during the afternoon and he mentioned the whole family was going to a Tea Party. Was looking forward to his report.

I've been wanting to read about his thoughts on it too.

He's probably drunked up in his back yard shooting rats and squires. / /

287 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:07:49pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

LOL

:)

288 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:09:16pm

re: #286 AmeriDan

I've been wanting to read about his thoughts on it too.

He's probably drunked up in his back yard shooting rats and squires. / /

Yep. LOL I'm going to contract with him to get the rat that's been hanging around our place.

289 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:09:25pm

re: #258 Gus 802

Is that a blue, red or purple state? I know there are a lot of Democratic strongholds. NOLA of course being one. It's hard to determine national elections sometimes. People tend to be less specific on party affiliation in national elections.

Red state for the re: #258 Gus 802

Is that a blue, red or purple state? I know there are a lot of Democratic strongholds. NOLA of course being one. It's hard to determine national elections sometimes. People tend to be less specific on party affiliation in national elections.

We've been a red state back to Clinton, where he won both elections. Before that, we went red back to Cahtuh, then we were blue. (I did NOT vote that election!)

290 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:09:42pm

re: #287 Gus 802

I could use one, myself.

291 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:10:29pm

re: #290 Sharmuta

I could use one, myself.

Two strong ones of those and I'm out!

292 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:10:32pm

re: #288 Pvt Bin Jammin

Yep. LOL I'm going to contract with him to get the rat that's been hanging around our place.

Lock the fridge before he gets there.

:)

293 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:11:27pm

re: #197 tom from pv

Yes I wasn't being a troll. Click delete seems kind of harsh.

Tough. Complain again about evolution-related posts and your account will be history.

I was just saying that science is self-correcting. And spending a few days of study on global warming or intelligent design is not a tragedy. Thats what science is about guys. Propose an hypothesis, prove it right or wrong if you can. If wrong, propose again and repeat the cycle.

"Intelligent design" is not science, it's religion. It does not belong in science classrooms. Your understanding of science is not even wrong.

I do admit being somewhat taken aback by what seems to be a hair-trigger on the part of the moderator.

I repeat: complain once more about evolution-related posts, and you won't have an LGF account to worry about.

294 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:11:52pm

My word of the day just arrived, you guys will love it.

"bien-pensant "

1. Right-thinking; conservative; conformist.

(ok, well, all except for that last one)

295 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:12:16pm

re: #289 pink freud

We've been a red state back to Clinton, where he won both elections. Before that, we went red back to Cahtuh, then we were blue. (I did NOT vote that election!)

Clinton had that ability to attract a lot of swing voters or as they used to say the Bubba Vote.

296 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:12:57pm

No wonder old "Nodrog" got rid of the "banned" blog. Nobody knows who these "yahoos" are anyway. I have noticed very few posts from some of these idiots.

297 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:13:43pm

re: #278 Picayune

True, but in the LA "03 Gov race, too many "rednecks" thought Jindal was too dark to elect, we got Blanco (where's the 4 Billion LRA Fed $ hon) and the rest is history. Jindal is sharper than he appears.

Agreed.

298 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:14:42pm

re: #283 Gus 802

Maybe he went to the Long Island Ice Tea Party by mistake. //

He'll be here ...there's rats that need killin'!

299 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:15:11pm

re: #298 pink freud

He'll be here ...there's rats that need killin'!

Yeah, for the LNDT. Usually.

300 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:15:43pm

re: #264 Gus 802

I resemble that on occasion although I think I still wouldn't have no opinion. OK, maybe I would depending on my BAL. ;)

I read the NYP today, and in the op-eds was an article from the Weekly Standard about a Palistinian jounalist talking to college kids at Columbia about the Israeli-Pali problem. The journalist said he felt like he was sitting across the table with members of Hamas. I looked for it on their web site but couldn't find it. All kinds of wackiness going on in colleges.

But I'm with you, I'd have an opinion either way.

301 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:16:42pm

re: #291 Gus 802

Two strong ones of those and I'm out!

One is usually enough for me.

302 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:18:15pm

re: #301 Sharmuta

One is usually enough for me.

Those kill me. I only like one kind of booze at a time.

303 Pietr  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:18:38pm

re: #298 pink freud

He'll be here ...there's rats that need killin'!

He said he was leaving the 6, et al, at home. He was worried about possible trouble. Knowing Red, he may have found it-knowing him, let's hope he encountered, excelled, and escaped.....and now I must seek that sand bed......

304 hazzyday  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:18:46pm

re: #124 Charles

A completely whacked out creationist editorial at the Norfolk, Virginia site MyCityTalk.com:

Where Evolution Has Gaps, Creation Might Offer Answers—If We Will Listen.

Trying to count the falsehoods and lies will give you a migraine. It's a compendium of almost every creationist talking point of the last 50 years.

There is a herd mentality in effect with regards to yecism. My Baptist friends seem to not want to hear about evolution. I have edged into the topic a couple of times and they hold their pastor and their church in an infallible representation of God. Public school graduates, college degreed. It's the hidden illness in America.

305 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:18:57pm

re: #299 Gus 802

Yeah, for the LNDT. Usually.

He's out there. Lurking. Plotting his revenge for all the booze jokes we just made at his expense.

Be afraid of the LNDT. Be very afraid.

:0

306 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:19:05pm

Red's sign:

Bag Those Taxes, Like Totally, Fer Sure, Dude!

/yes, I spend waaay too much time on LGF

307 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:19:50pm

re: #300 x-wing

I read the NYP today, and in the op-eds was an article from the Weekly Standard about a Palistinian jounalist talking to college kids at Columbia about the Israeli-Pali problem. The journalist said he felt like he was sitting across the table with members of Hamas. I looked for it on their web site but couldn't find it. All kinds of wackiness going on in colleges.

But I'm with you, I'd have an opinion either way.

I would imagine that being the case over at Columbia. Pretty much they attract a lot of activist wannabes. NYU being another activist type school. Not saying it's 100% the case but that's the general mood.

308 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:20:01pm

re: #266 AmeriDan

Bad move x-wing. As a single male who doesn't cook, I've learned the lesson that you always give back the containers.

It assures future leftovers.

I was hoping to barter them for some of her schnitts and knepp ;>}

309 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:20:26pm

re: #305 AmeriDan

He's out there. Lurking. Plotting his revenge for all the booze jokes we just made at his expense.

Be afraid of the LNDT. Be very afraid.

:0

Be very afraid!

/White smoke

310 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:20:47pm

re: #303 Pietr

He said he was leaving the 6, et al, at home. He was worried about possible trouble. Knowing Red, he may have found it-knowing him, let's hope he encountered, excelled, and escaped.....and now I must seek that sand bed......

I thought they were all going but then again I was busy at work and lurking. Dang, I hope he is okay.

311 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:25:21pm

re: #308 x-wing

I was hoping to barter them for some of her schnitts and knepp ;>}

Pirate!

Ransoming things from lol will get you nowhere. Although knowing what
schnitts and knepp is would score some points.

312 Macker  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:26:01pm

Testing New Avatar....

313 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:26:02pm

Just finished watching Saving Private Ryan on Youtube for the 100th time. That movie always wears me out.

314 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:27:47pm

re: #312 Macker

Testing New Avatar....

GEEK ALERT! !

Just kidding Mac. Looks great.

315 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:28:00pm

re: #312 Macker

Looks good!

316 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:28:41pm

re: #312 Macker

Testing New Avatar....

Fascinating.

317 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:29:55pm

re: #313 Gus 802

Just finished watching Saving Private Ryan on Youtube for the 100th time. That movie always wears me out.

They don't make movies like that anymore ever.

318 Macker  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:31:24pm

re: #314 AmeriDan

Full-size here. This is actually one of my favorite Romulan vessels from FASA, the V-7 Whitewind.

319 Spar Kling  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:31:35pm

re: #174 calcajun

Sir,
You keep missing the point that has been repeatedly made here. The only way to keep this country from lurching to the left is to oust the socialists Dems from office and the only means of doing that is to elect the GOP in 2010. The problem is that there is a war for the soul of the GOP--and for too many years the GOP has had to drink the religious right-flavored Kool-aid (and I am a far-right Christian).

Ok, let's have you pretend you're a politician. A reporter asks you what your religion is. You truthfully answer that you are a Christian. Then, the reporter asks you whether you take your Christian values seriously, whether you intend to abide by your beliefs while you are in office.

Is there anything that you can say that will keep you from being characterized in the press as a Bible-thumping religious extremist loony intent on turning America into a Christian theocracy? Is there anything you can say that will keep you from being accused of alienating people in the GOP of different faiths or of no faith? No, better resign right now for the good of the party. Next candidate.

Frankly, I'm sick of the wimpy, incompetent, compromising, big spending, country-club celebrity Republican party that is really no different than the moderate-to-conservative wing of the Democrat party. Instead, I'd love to see a principled, economically conservative advocate for small government (and that has nothing to do with religious reconstructionism).

But now that the Communists are in power in this country, there's little hope for that. Instead, I predict that to avoid the "religious right" label, the GOP will go even further left, Socialist-lite . . . and lose the next round of elections too.

-sk

320 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:32:04pm

re: #145 Mars Needs Neocons

That's how I always felt. Of course I was the genius who when asked by the new CO how I liked things and I was told to be honest, I replied "It sucks shit, sir!"

I was pretty sure my military career was going to be a limited time endeavor at that point.

i had a PAO officer order me not to talk to the reporters i was driving around, since i was "off message".....

she liked me a whole lot better when one of the scumbags dropped with an MI, and the assigned medic freaked out. i told him what to do, gave him better gear from my own go bag to do it, and then broke every speed limit on the base getting him to the TMC faster than they could get the chopper spun up and out to us.

321 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:32:12pm

re: #317 AmeriDan

They don't make movies like that anymore ever.

They don't. It might be one of the best war movies really. Although I do have a strong bias for Band of Brothers which of course is a series. Tom Hanks being involved in both along with Steven Ambrose.

322 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:32:40pm

re: #318 Macker

Full-size here. This is actually one of my favorite Romulan vessels from FASA, the V-7 Whitewind.

Heh. I didn't catch that on the smaller pic.

323 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:34:31pm

re: #320 redc1c4

Well, there you are! How was the Tea Party?

324 Erik The Red  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:34:35pm

re: #320 redc1c4

i had a PAO officer order me not to talk to the reporters i was driving around, since i was "off message".....

she liked me a whole lot better when one of the scumbags dropped with an MI, and the assigned medic freaked out. i told him what to do, gave him better gear from my own go bag to do it, and then broke every speed limit on the base getting him to the TMC faster than they could get the chopper spun up and out to us.

Hey red some Lizards were talking about you upthread. Not me of course///

Who was you "Long Island" Tea Party?

325 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:34:58pm

re: #311 AmeriDan

Pirate!

Ransoming things from lol will get you nowhere. Although knowing what
schnitts and knepp is would score some points.


LOL. I miss things like that. My Grandma{reast her soul} used to make us the Old German stuff like that.

Good times, Great eats.

326 Jack Burton  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:34:59pm

re: #293 Charles

Your understanding of science is not even wrong.

That's my favorite insult when someone says something completely asinine. The blank stare I get in return is priceless.

327 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:36:48pm

re: #321 Gus 802

They don't. It might be one of the best war movies really. Although I do have a strong bias for Band of Brothers which of course is a series. Tom Hanks being involved in both along with Steven Ambrose.

I still haven't seen Band of Brothers. I also still need to see From the Earth to the Moon.

Private Ryan is tied with Apollo 13 as my all time favorite movie.

328 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:37:01pm

re: #319 Spar Kling

Instead, I'd love to see a principled, economically conservative advocate for small government (and that has nothing to do with religious reconstructionism).

Except when it comes to the classrooms? Because this is a little ironic coming from you.

329 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:38:54pm

re: #313 Gus 802

Just finished watching Saving Private Ryan on Youtube for the 100th time. That movie always wears me out.

My favorite part was when that asshole Gerry shot a few of our guys and then put up his hands to surrender.

I don't think so buddy.

Well,I didn't like that he shot our guys.

330 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:39:16pm

re: #281 Erik The Red

I think red may have drank more than just tea today///

that's a safe bet most any day...... i can't get too much blood in my ehtanol system, or i get sick.

500 or more at the Van Nuys government center, over by the post office on Van Nuys Blvd.

a small Laup Norian caontingent, a few independent whack j*bs, one or two Obots seeking contact with the dreaded "right wing extremist" and the rest of the crowd was just regular, every day Valley types, everything from kids to old folks in wheel chairs. coudln't ehar the speakers real well, but HRH & i spent most of our time on the curb facing the blvd, receiving many honks from passing motorists.

one young guy was taking pictures of the crowd, and said he was from the Pierce College paper: he asked me for an interview, so i tried to be as unhinged as possible.... %-)

i also made a few jokes with the various cops i met about reporting us to DHS, etc, and they all found humor in the subject. nice to see the rank and file is smarter than the leadership, as usual.

331 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:39:23pm

re: #325 x-wing

Good times, Great eats.

Sounds like a wonderful Grandma.

332 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:39:48pm

re: #324 Erik The Red

Hey red some Lizards were talking about you upthread. Not me of course///

Who was you "Long Island" Tea Party?

great..... now i think i'll go see if i can shoot a rat. %-)

333 gmsc  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:41:03pm

re: #327 AmeriDan

I still haven't seen Band of Brothers. I also still need to see From the Earth to the Moon.

Private Ryan is tied with Apollo 13 as my all time favorite movie.

Apollo 13 is a good movie to watch right now. It was this week in 1970 that it was launched (April 11) and the explosion that damaged the service module happened on April 14.

334 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:41:07pm

re: #327 AmeriDan

I still haven't seen Band of Brothers. I also still need to see From the Earth to the Moon.

Private Ryan is tied with Apollo 13 as my all time favorite movie.

Saw Apollo 13. Great movie. Haven't seen From the Earth to the Moon. Read A Man on the Moon which has a forward by Tom Hanks.

If you like to read get Band of Brothers by Ambrose along with watching the whole series. Keep in mind that if you do watch BOB you might want to get the whole series since you'll be tempted to watch it straight through.

335 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:42:14pm

re: #283 Gus 802

Maybe he went to the Long Island Ice Tea Party by mistake. //

that isn't what i'd call a mistake...... %-)

336 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:42:22pm

re: #327 AmeriDan

I still haven't seen Band of Brothers. I also still need to see From the Earth to the Moon.

Private Ryan is tied with Apollo 13 as my all time favorite movie.

Patton? Anyone?

337 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:42:50pm

re: #335 redc1c4

that isn't what i'd call a mistake...... %-)

Yep. An intentional accident! ;)

338 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:43:33pm

re: #302 Pvt Bin Jammin

Those kill me. I only like one kind of booze at a time.

same here................

liquid. %-)

339 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:43:52pm

re: #329 x-wing

My favorite part was when that asshole Gerry shot a few of our guys and then put up his hands to surrender.

I don't think so buddy.

Well,I didn't like that he shot our guys.

I know what you mean. There were a few cringe moments when I felt like yelling at the screen.

340 Jack Burton  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:44:07pm

re: #327 AmeriDan

I still haven't seen Band of Brothers. I also still need to see From the Earth to the Moon.

Private Ryan is tied with Apollo 13 as my all time favorite movie.

Band of Brothers and From the Earth to the Moon were the best series ever put out by HBO.

Certain parts of both of them bring tears to my eyes. The "1968" Episode of FtE2tM about Apollo 8 is one that does it to me for reasons I cannot really explain or articulate and I can barely even watch the "Why We Fight" episode of Band of Brothers. It's disturbing.

341 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:45:23pm

re: #338 redc1c4

LOL

I don't mix my martini's with nuthin.

342 x-wing  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:45:37pm

re: #331 AmeriDan

Sounds like a wonderful Grandma.

She was very old school, didn't show alot of love, especially to us dudes. But I will always love her for her cooking.

343 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:46:30pm

re: #340 ArchangelMichael

Band of Brothers and From the Earth to the Moon were the best series ever put out by HBO.

Certain parts of both of them bring tears to my eyes. The "1968" Episode of FtE2tM about Apollo 8 is one that does it to me for reasons I cannot really explain or articulate and I can barely even watch the "Why We Fight" episode of Band of Brothers. It's disturbing.

The characters on BOB were fantastic. Lewis Nixon was one my favorites.

344 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:46:35pm

re: #324 Erik The Red

Hey red some Lizards were talking about you upthread. Not me of course///

Who was you "Long Island" Tea Party?

I wasn't talking about you either red, and I won't name any names... but you need to watch out for a certain Lizard with the initials... Pink Freud.

Don't get me started on what Gus said about you.

/ / / / / / /

345 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:47:39pm

re: #344 AmeriDan

I wasn't talking about you either red, and I won't name any names... but you need to watch out for a certain Lizard with the initials... Pink Freud.

Don't get me started on what Gus said about you.

/ / / / / / /

I please A fifth. //

346 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:48:01pm

Oops, PLEAD a fifth.

347 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:48:51pm

re: #303 Pietr

He said he was leaving the 6, et al, at home. He was worried about possible trouble. Knowing Red, he may have found it-knowing him, let's hope he encountered, excelled, and escaped.....and now I must seek that sand bed......

attending was 6's idea, and we were there for pretty much the whole thing.

only one know with 2 knotheads having a spirited name calling fest debate, with one bored cop sitting next to them on his bike. since one was in his 60's and the other 70+, he wasn't too concerned.

348 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:49:31pm

re: #346 Gus 802

Oops, PLEAD a fifth.

just give me a fifth and everything is forgiven. %-)

349 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:49:54pm

re: #334 Gus 802

I love to read. I'd rather read the book than see the movie, if it had to be a choice.

350 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:49:56pm

re: #336 x-wing

Patton? Anyone?

That's a great movie. I really like the music. One of the few rare movies that even covers Operation Torch to a certain extent.

351 redc1c4  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:50:46pm

re: #306 pink freud

Red's sign:

Bag Those Taxes, Like Totally, Fer Sure, Dude!

/yes, I spend waaay too much time on LGF

i had several folks with cameras take shots of it.......

352 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:50:54pm

re: #346 Gus 802

Oops, PLEAD a fifth.

More like you drank a fifth.

/

353 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:51:03pm

re: #349 AmeriDan

I love to read. I'd rather read the book than see the movie, if it had to be a choice.

Get the book then. I read the book first which piqued my interest.

354 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:51:30pm

re: #351 redc1c4

i had several folks with cameras take shots of it.......

It was a sure winner!

355 Gus  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:52:10pm

re: #348 redc1c4

just give me a fifth and everything is forgiven. %-)

How does that saying go. When you're two tenths drink a fifth.

356 AmeriDan  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:54:03pm

re: #342 x-wing

She was very old school, didn't show alot of love, especially to us dudes. But I will always love her for her cooking.

Sounds like my dearly departed mother in a way. The show of love was the cooking.

357 pink freud  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:57:25pm

re: #342 x-wing

She was very old school, didn't show alot of love, especially to us dudes. But I will always love her for her cooking.

re: #356 AmeriDan

Sounds like my dearly departed mother in a way. The show of love was the cooking.

I find it so interesting that this is predominantly a guy thing.

I never hear daughters speaking of their mother's cooking the way I do sons.

/my son would crawl through broken glass for my cooking, and while my daughter is appreciative, there's no comparison

358 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 11:57:53pm

Why science makes bad television.

359 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:11:49am

re: #319 Spar Kling

Back from he walk.

I suggest you study R.W. Reagan. He was a practicing Christian--but he did not wear his faith on his sleeve. You set up a strawman --and not a very good one. That's not argument--it's sophistry.

The ID/Creationist cadre has been around for decades--it's the same group that passed the anti-evolution laws that came under attack in Dayton TN in 1925. Everyone who clings so dearly to this issue keeps missing two points. It is, at its core, a religious doctrine which you (seemingly) want to have propagated in the public schools--the First Amendment be damned. Second, it is a litmus test used by the left and the right for prospective candidates. It will soon be the kiss of death for many as many centrists will be turned off by any candidate so branded.

360 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:13:31am

re: #350 Gus 802

Check out History Network's "Patton 360". It covers Torch in soem good detail.

Been meaning to read "Army at Dawn". Will put that on my Audible Wish list.

361 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:32:55am

re: #210 Idle Drifter

Isn't Red Mercury the key to creating the Philosopher Stone?

I thought Red Mercury was Freddie Mercury's straight, but obscure brother.

362 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:47:30am
a new survey of Louisiana residents shows 40 percent of the respondents believe evolution is not well-supported by evidence or generally accepted within the scientific community. Only 39 percent of the respondents said they believed evolution is well-supported by evidence. Twenty-one percent said they did not know.

The inescapable conclusion to be drawn is that Louisiana is on the verge of qualifying as an officially idiotarian State.

363 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 6:05:10am

Is there a link describing what Jindal's wife wants to teach or promote?

After all, the Discovery Institute claims to promote science too, and so far nobody that I know of has begun to try to distort math, although I can see that on the horizon.

364 rondeldon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 7:28:29am

This post is silly. There is no contradiction between not believing evolution is true, but still believing the scientific method is valid. You have world renown scientist such as Fancis Collins who was the Director of the Human Genome Project and he doesn't embrace Darwinian Evolution. This alone should refute the fallacy that one can believe both.

365 jvic  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 7:35:29am

re: #363 Naso Tang

Is there a link describing what Jindal's wife wants to teach or promote?

gman #61 links to the foundation.

Supposedly major donors will be identified in the future. It will be interesting to see who they are. Ditto for board members and key employees.

366 Land Shark  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 8:08:26am

The irony of Bobby Jindal's wife promoting science education while he promotes I.D. Creationism in science education pegs my irony meter. Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall while they discuss it?

I believe in Intelligent Design like I've said before, but I'm 100% opposed to teaching it in science class. No matter how Creationists try to disguise it, it's still a matter of faith.

And that's what really bothers me, Creationists have been very dishonest in their efforts, trying to pass it off as a freedom of speech issue, or as science that's being "repressed." Trying to make an issue of "Academic Freedon." What horseshit! They claim scientists are afraid to question and study Darwin's theories, which is complete non-sense to anyone who's spent any time reading up on the subject. Scientists have used Darwin's work as a starting point for more research into evolution, subjecting it to further scrutiny and in some cases, their research has led them to different conclusions than those he reached. This is why science needs to be left alone to be science. Instead of treating Darwin's work as "unchallengeable dogma, scientists have subjected it to further scientific research and thus increased our knowledge. And the Theory of Evolution has "evolved" as a result.

367 gman  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 8:10:35am

re: #364 rondeldon

This post is silly. There is no contradiction between not believing evolution is true, but still believing the scientific method is valid. You have world renown scientist such as Fancis Collins who was the Director of the Human Genome Project and he doesn't embrace Darwinian Evolution. This alone should refute the fallacy that one can believe both.

Only one problem. Evolution is a product of the scientific method.

368 gman  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 8:12:48am

re: #365 jvic

gman #61 links to the foundation.

Supposedly major donors will be identified in the future. It will be interesting to see who they are. Ditto for board members and key employees.

Yeah, that's true. There are a lot of Creationists who want to get their fingers in that pie.

369 Malleus Dei  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 8:42:21am

Just FYI, Bobby Jindal's wife is both brilliant and a first-rate scientist.

370 jvic  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 9:30:21am

re: #369 Malleus Dei

Just FYI, Bobby Jindal's wife is both brilliant and a first-rate scientist.

Supriya Jindal graduated as a chemical engineer and then got her MBA. She is now in LSU's PhD program in marketing but has not yet written her thesis. LSU's marketing department is part of the business school.

Supriya Jindal may or may not be brilliant, but she is not a scientist let alone a first-rate one.

371 Suzette  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 10:19:55am

re: #40 pink freud

Leave my state alone.


We are not all dumb hicks down in Louisiana.....Oh my I can spell our states name correct! Imagine that!
Good going pink!

372 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 10:32:32am

re: #150 Spar Kling

President Obama and the progressives want to bankrupt us and turn us into to yet another failed communist state, various religious sects want to turn us into a theocracy, the greens want to turn us into an uninhabited wilderness, elitists of every stripe want to make all our decisions with a pseudo- scientific, economic, academic, or political intimidation, a huge mob of crooks and scammers are climbing all over our country, constantly trying to get their hands into our pockets and pocketbooks, bureaucrats want to control our every economic, political, and metabolic action with fees, forms, and endless, incomprehensible, self-contradictory regulations, businesses want to have everything automatically deducted from our paychecks, checking accounts, and credit cards!

But now we can finally see it, that the biggest, vilest, most insidious threat of all, one that will destroy Truth, Justice, and the American Way of Life is . . .

-sk

Of course, you're a creationist (and a highly deceptive one at that) so it's understandable why you would whine and complain about these threads.

373 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 10:36:19am

re: #359 calcajun

Back from he walk.

I suggest you study R.W. Reagan. He was a practicing Christian--but he did not wear his faith on his sleeve. You set up a strawman --and not a very good one. That's not argument--it's sophistry.

That's the least of SK's sins. He's also a liar, who insisted he was going to post a long list of "peer reviewed scientific papers" on intelligent design, didn't, and then insisted that he did.

And he also claimed he had a "scientific degree," in a blatantly transparent attempt to validate his creationist nonsense, then refused to even say which field this alleged degree was in. He's getting more and more hysterical with these posts, because he's been outed every time he tries to spew his creationist apologetics.

374 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 10:58:54am

re: #364 rondeldon

This post is silly. There is no contradiction between not believing evolution is true, but still believing the scientific method is valid. You have world renown scientist such as Fancis Collins who was the Director of the Human Genome Project and he doesn't embrace Darwinian Evolution. This alone should refute the fallacy that one can believe both.

I think he says he believes in God. I don't recall him saying he doesn't accept evolution. Would you care to support your statement?

375 tremblur  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:28:46am

It's a great day.

It means 61% of the population in Louisiana has sought out the facts for themselves and done their own independent research instead of being force fed their "science" from the State.

376 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:05pm

re: #364 rondeldon

This post is silly. There is no contradiction between not believing evolution is true, but still believing the scientific method is valid. You have world renown scientist such as Fancis Collins who was the Director of the Human Genome Project and he doesn't embrace Darwinian Evolution. This alone should refute the fallacy that one can believe both.

Actually, Francis Collince does accept evolution, and he is greatly embarrassed by fundamentalist creationists:

[Link: discovermagazine.com...]

377 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:28pm

re: #376 Salamantis

Actually, Francis Collince does accept evolution, and he is greatly embarrassed by fundamentalist creationists:

[Link: discovermagazine.com...]

Umm...Collins...pimf

378 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:24pm

re: #375 tremblur

It's a great day.

It means 61% of the population in Louisiana has sought out the facts for themselves and done their own independent research instead of being force fed their "science" from the State.

It means that 61% of the population in Louisiana is getting their science 'education' from the pulpit instead of the laboratory. Which is damn sad for Louisiana.

It makes as much sense as having Sunday sermons by Stephen Hawking.

379 tryagain  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:33:02pm

re: #370 jvic

so engineers aren't scientists? what is your definition of scientist?

380 jvic  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:29:38pm

re: #379 tryagain

so engineers aren't scientists?

Overall, their emphases differ.

what is your definition of scientist?

Definitions are not hard to look up online. The Anglo-French root of 'engineering' means 'to devise or construct'. The Latin root of 'science' means 'to know'.

381 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:29:55pm

re: #375 tremblur

It's a great day.

It means 61% of the population in Louisiana has sought out the facts for themselves and done their own independent research instead of being force fed their "science" from the State.

Like you, they have patently NOT sorted out the facts for themselves, but are happy to accept the word of people like you who have no facts to offer.

382 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:40:44pm

re: #376 Salamantis

Actually, Francis Collince does accept evolution, and he is greatly embarrassed by fundamentalist creationists:

[Link: discovermagazine.com...]

It's amazing how much creationists lie about and misrepresent the opinion of people like Frances Collins.

383 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:51:56pm

re: #382 Charles

It's amazing how much creationists lie about and misrepresent the opinion of people like Frances Collins.

True enough, although I am inclined to think that people like rondeldon simply believe what they say, but have never considered questioning anything that contradicts their belief system.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to require all posters to view the video above on open mindedness, and pass a short quiz at the end.

///nahh, that would make life too boring. Nothing but smart people makes for a boring blog...

384 tom from pv  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:53:56pm

re: #293 Charles

"Intelligent design" is not science, it's religion. It does not belong in science classrooms. Your understanding of science is not even wrong..

But your understanding of my message is wrong. I accept evolution. Creationism is nutty. You didn't seem to get that.

But just because Creationism is nutty is no reason to ban discussion of the topic in school, especially in a science class. According to the article there is a sizable number of citizens who believe in Creationism. Kids will interact with those people outside of school and will naturally form their own opinions from all sources. Turning creationism into a taboo topic will NOT enable those kids to form rational conclusions. In fact, taboo topics tend to attract adolescent minds, not repel them.

Look at some other nutty topics. Holocaust denial. AIDS was invented by the CIA. 9/11 was a plot by Bush/Cheney. Global warming is caused by man. ALL of these must be discussed in school as part of the course of study. If it isn't then you get "truthers". Separating fact from fiction is learning.

As I've said twice before, I have great confidence that the scientific method works. Thus I don't fear discussion of nutty topics in a free society. I want adults who make up their own minds using rational thought. Thus, I certainly don't want to ever BAN such discussion from our schools.

385 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:15:13pm

re: #384 tom from pv

But just because Creationism is nutty is no reason to ban discussion of the topic in school, especially in a science class.

So now you advocate insulting all the kids whose parents are creationists by taking up time in science class by calling Mom and Dad nutters?

Do you have no sense of just how nutty that sounds?

386 Mr Secul  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:15:57pm

re: #384 tom from pv

But just because Creationism is nutty is no reason to ban discussion of the topic in school, especially in a science class.

Don't try to misrepresent Charles' position. He is not advocating the banning of discussion. It is the Creationists who are advocating 'teaching the strengths and weaknesses of evolution'.

Are you merely confused about this or are you actively trying to cloud the issue?

387 Mr Secul  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:24:15pm

re: #382 Charles

It's amazing how much creationists lie about and misrepresent the opinion of people like Frances Collins.

No its not amazing. Misrepresenting opinion is standard operating procedure for Creationists.

388 Tom From PV  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:25:40pm

re: #385 Naso Tang

Naso, please don't distort what I said. Kids don't live in a vacuum, they will interact with others outside of school. If belief in creationism is a commonly held view, then it must be tackled head on.

If a child comes to school believing in creationism and rejecting evolution, the teacher HAS to grapple with the issue. This kid will ask questions. Why not go point by point, apply the scientific method, and let rational logic do its work?

389 Tom From PV  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:34:13pm

re: #386 Mr Secul

Don't try to misrepresent Charles' position. He is not advocating the banning of discussion. It is the Creationists who are advocating 'teaching the strengths and weaknesses of evolution'.

The Scientific Method works. How long does it take to cover the claims of the creationists and demonstrate their fallacy? What is everyone so afraid of here?

Again, according to the article, a large number of people in LA apparently consider the earth to be 6,000 years old. Fine. Present that claim, show three examples why it can't possibly be true and move on to the next claim. This will take 2 days, tops. And the result will be education of kids. Kids who will learn from the interaction.

Turn the topic into a taboo or use it as a political wedge issue -- well, that just makes things worse.

BTW, creationists aren't the only ones who misrepresent opinions and facts.

390 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:50:17pm

re: #388 Tom From PV

Naso, please don't distort what I said. Kids don't live in a vacuum, they will interact with others outside of school. If belief in creationism is a commonly held view, then it must be tackled head on.

If a child comes to school believing in creationism and rejecting evolution, the teacher HAS to grapple with the issue. This kid will ask questions. Why not go point by point, apply the scientific method, and let rational logic do its work?

You distort what I said, by ignoring what I said and repeating what you said.

Did you watch the video on open mindedness?

Science class is to teach what is known, not debunk religion. The facts and intelligence (if any) of the student will answer those questions in due course. The only valid question that a student can ask is one of filling in the gaps, and a good teacher can do that.

A student that claims that all the scientists in the world are wrong will fail the class.

That is all there is to it.

391 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:52:05pm

re: #389 Tom From PV


BTW, creationists aren't the only ones who misrepresent opinions and facts.

Sly little comments like that, without relevance, make one suspicious of your motives.

392 Mr Secul  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:02:14pm

re: #389 Tom From PV

The Scientific Method works. How long does it take to cover the claims of the creationists and demonstrate their fallacy?

Have you been paying attention to the Creationist threads over the past months? If you had then you would know first hand how much time and energy it takes to counter each Creationist argument.

It can be done but the web is full of possible Creationist talking points that could be used to disrupt actual teaching.

What is everyone so afraid of here?

The people here know that this is an attempt to undermine the teaching of evolution and they suspect that it will be an effective tactic. They also see it as being anti-science in general and they see it as a threat to the separation of church and state.

They also see it as being of no benefit to the teaching of science.

Again, according to the article, a large number of people in LA apparently consider the earth to be 6,000 years old. Fine. Present that claim, show three examples why it can't possibly be true and move on to the next claim. This will take 2 days, tops. And the result will be education of kids. Kids who will learn from the interaction.

Turn the topic into a taboo or use it as a political wedge issue -- well, that just makes things worse.

It already is a wedge issue, you must already be aware of this. Were you unaware of the Wedge Strategy?

BTW, creationists aren't the only ones who misrepresent opinions and facts.

Do you have any specific examples in mind?

393 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:07:11pm

re: #389 Tom From PV

The Scientific Method works. How long does it take to cover the claims of the creationists and demonstrate their fallacy? What is everyone so afraid of here?

Again, according to the article, a large number of people in LA apparently consider the earth to be 6,000 years old. Fine. Present that claim, show three examples why it can't possibly be true and move on to the next claim. This will take 2 days, tops. And the result will be education of kids. Kids who will learn from the interaction.

Turn the topic into a taboo or use it as a political wedge issue -- well, that just makes things worse.

BTW, creationists aren't the only ones who misrepresent opinions and facts.

The course that you are advocating will lead to several zombic memebot kids in each science class, programmed by their Disco-Institute-guided preachers, deluging the teacher with creationist talking points to the point that no actual bioscience gets taught - which is the whole point of the exercise.

The creationist organizations actually instruct people in how to do this sort of thing:

[Link: ncseweb.org...]

And the misconceptions can be so obscure that a high school science teacher might lack the knowledge with which to debunk them:

[Link: timpanogos.wordpress.com...]

One can cynically employ manipulative sophist rhetoric to make the most absurd contentions seem reasonable:

[Link: www.teachthemscience.org...]

Your reasonable-seeming suggestion is in fact a recipe for pedagogical disaster.

394 Mr Secul  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:14:26pm

re: #389 Tom From PV

Do you think that the purpose of the Louisiana Science Education Act is to promote critical thinking skills?

I'm not asking if you think that it could improve critical thinking skills as a side effect of teachers rebutting Creationist talking points. I'm asking you if you think that the intent of the people who drafted and passed the bill is to improve science education.

Do you believe that there is no hidden agenda?

395 tom from pv  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 7:18:43pm

re: #394 Mr Secul

The Science Act of 2008 passed their house by something like 90-5 and the Senate by 25-0. In other words, this law was wanted by the citizens; any veto would have been over-turned.

I'm guessing the people were getting tired of the way the school boards were running science education and demanded this law. This is their right to ask for new laws to address their concerns. The law hasn't been overturned by the state supreme court either.

I suppose we could interpret the "intent of the law" to mean the creationists have taken over LA. Frankly, from what I've seen, that doesn't make a lot of sense. There is a section of the law prohibiting pushing religion, for example -- so why put that language in a law if you don't want it?

396 tom from pv  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 7:21:51pm

re: #393 Salamantis

The course that you are advocating will lead to several zombic memebot kids in each science class, programmed by their Disco-Institute-guided preachers, deluging the teacher with creationist talking points to the point that no actual bioscience gets taught - which is the whole point of the exercise.

This could happen with or without the law. I took some time today to actually look at what it says and there is nothing in there about allowing zombie robots to hector the teacher! Actually, as you probably know, the law really just instructs the state school board (BESE) to overhaul their science program. I see nothing in there that would end up ruining the classroom.

But perhaps you have found something specific?

397 tom from pv  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 7:29:44pm

re: #390 Naso Tang

Science class is to teach what is known, not debunk religion. The facts and intelligence (if any) of the student will answer those questions in due course. The only valid question that a student can ask is one of filling in the gaps, and a good teacher can do that.

We disagree here. Science education is NOT about teaching rote facts. Its about critical thinking, using quantitative analysis. If you will, its about providing an individual with the ability to construct his own cognitive model of the world.

I say let the kld claim that the earth is only 6,000 years old. A half competent teacher should be able to coach that kid (and the class) into how to debunk those kinds of claims.

And that kid will be much better prepared for the real world he will live in. Look, the global warming hoax is far more damaging to us if the population believes. The politicians will ruin our economy if we allow things like cap and trade. Creationism is backwards, but nobody is going to raise our taxes or go to war over it.

398 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 8:06:06pm

re: #397 tom from pv

We disagree here. Science education is NOT about teaching rote facts. Its about critical thinking, using quantitative analysis. If you will, its about providing an individual with the ability to construct his own cognitive model of the world.

A chimp can construct its own cognitive model of the world, just like creationists do.

You sound like you think children can duplicate all that has been learned just by teaching them what you call critical thinking. That is rubbish, and clearly nobody taught you critical thinking.

I say let the kld claim that the earth is only 6,000 years old. A half competent teacher should be able to coach that kid (and the class) into how to debunk those kinds of claims.

Obviously that has not worked very well with a large percentage of the population, has it? The reason is that people like you want to encourage everyone to think things out for themselves, before they have learned what their betters have worked out before them.

And that kid will be much better prepared for the real world he will live in. Look, the global warming hoax is far more damaging to us if the population believes.

I would be an idiot to take your word for that, since that is all you offer; but that is what you call critical thinking.

The politicians will ruin our economy if we allow things like cap and trade.

This is what you reduce your argument to?

Creationism is backwards, but nobody is going to raise our taxes or go to war over it.

You obviously don't realize that that is the classic mantra of apologists for creationism and similar beliefs of ignorance. "Stupidity is unimportant because it does no harm....etc"

399 tom from pv  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 9:05:44pm

re: #398 Naso Tang

You sound like you think children can duplicate all that has been learned just by teaching them what you call critical thinking. That is rubbish, and clearly nobody taught you critical thinking.

Naso, you don't know me. I have three degrees (math, aero engineering, computer science) and make my living by employing critical thinking every day. You really shouldn't attempt silly insults to make a point. I haven't insulted you in any way.

And chimps can't reason so cannot construct "cognitive models" of their world. No chimp sits around wondering where he came from and how old the world is. Humans do.

I think a child can absorb a small amount of the knowledge he needs to succeed in life; most of it he learns himself thru observation and thinking. Thats why science education has to include learning the scientific method. The realm of philosophy and religion is ESPECIALLY an area that demonstrates someone's ability to think critically.

I took some time today to read the 2008 Science Education bill that Jindal signed. I also linked in the state school board actions that were directed by that law. I don't see anything that should scare anyone. Do you? If so, what are the specifics?

400 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 10:21:48pm

re: #396 tom from pv

This could happen with or without the law. I took some time today to actually look at what it says and there is nothing in there about allowing zombie robots to hector the teacher! Actually, as you probably know, the law really just instructs the state school board (BESE) to overhaul their science program. I see nothing in there that would end up ruining the classroom.

But perhaps you have found something specific?

Here you go:

[Link: www.lasciencecoalition.org...]

401 Mr Secul  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:22:48pm

re: #395 tom from pv

The Science Act of 2008 passed their house by something like 90-5 and the Senate by 25-0. In other words, this law was wanted by the citizens; any veto would have been over-turned.

I'm guessing the people were getting tired of the way the school boards were running science education and demanded this law. This is their right to ask for new laws to address their concerns. The law hasn't been overturned by the state supreme court either.

Do you share their concerns?

Do you think that evolutionary theory is particularly suspect or shaky?

Does it need special attention or special scrutiny?

I suppose we could interpret the "intent of the law" to mean the creationists have taken over LA. Frankly, from what I've seen, that doesn't make a lot of sense. There is a section of the law prohibiting pushing religion, for example -- so why put that language in a law if you don't want it?

Are you really this naive?

Have you ignored the evolution of Creation Science? Does cdesign proponentsists mean nothing to you?

Have you heard of Kitzmiller v. Dover?

Have you heard of Edwards v. Aguillard?

Have you read this?

You are very proud of your education and your critical thinking skills but you don't seem to have done the necessary background work to understand this issue.

402 Spar Kling  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:41:22am

re: #399 tom from pv

Naso, you don't know me. I have three degrees (math, aero engineering, computer science) and make my living by employing critical thinking every day. You really shouldn't attempt silly insults to make a point. I haven't insulted you in any way.

I understand that aero is the toughest engineering degree, so congratulations. Mine is in the sciences (the specifics of which I've refused to divulge here for personal reasons). Yes, people should treat each other with civility and respect, especially when they disagree on some point.

I think a child can absorb a small amount of the knowledge he needs to succeed in life; most of it he learns himself thru observation and thinking. Thats why science education has to include learning the scientific method. The realm of philosophy and religion is ESPECIALLY an area that demonstrates someone's ability to think critically.

I agree completely. One of the worst things that can happen in science classrooms is the teaching of science as a collection of terms and immutable "facts." Science requires keen observation skills, insatiable curiosity, methodical thinking, careful experimentation, and an unshakably ethical commitment to the truth, even when it leads away from some pet theory or approach.

I took some time today to read the 2008 Science Education bill that Jindal signed. I also linked in the state school board actions that were directed by that law. I don't see anything that should scare anyone. Do you? If so, what are the specifics?

I haven't read the bill, but apparently any references to critical thinking, free inquiry, and considering both the strengths and weaknesses of scientific theories are considered by some people as code words for teaching religion in science classes. Who would have guessed? :-)

-sk

403 Spar Kling  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:43:05am

re: #402 Spar Kling

I took some time today to read the 2008 Science Education bill that Jindal signed. I also linked in the state school board actions that were directed by that law. I don't see anything that should scare anyone. Do you? If so, what are the specifics?

Oops, should have been block quoted in the previous post.

-sk

404 Salamantis  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 1:23:32am

re: #402 Spar Kling

I agree completely. One of the worst things that can happen in science classrooms is the teaching of science as a collection of terms and immutable "facts." Science requires keen observation skills, insatiable curiosity, methodical thinking, careful experimentation, and an unshakably ethical commitment to the truth, even when it leads away from some pet theory or approach.

I took some time today to read the 2008 Science Education bill that Jindal signed. I also linked in the state school board actions that were directed by that law. I don't see anything that should scare anyone. Do you? If so, what are the specifics?

I haven't read the bill, but apparently any references to critical thinking, free inquiry, and considering both the strengths and weaknesses of scientific theories are considered by some people as code words for teaching religion in science classes. Who would have guessed? :-)

-sk

Once again, I refer you to my post #393, especially the links, and to this:

[Link: www.lasciencecoalition.org...]

But of course you will see no problem with the bill. You're on the creationists' side.

405 Achilles Tang  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:53:20am

re: #399 tom from pv

Naso, you don't know me. I have three degrees (math, aero engineering, computer science) and make my living by employing critical thinking every day. You really shouldn't attempt silly insults to make a point. I haven't insulted you in any way.

I find it insulting to some degree that you avoid the key points I make, but then that is because you don't understand them.

So you have what, a Bachelor of Science in each of the above? Any reason you never chose to go for a Masters or Phd in any of them?

And chimps can't reason so cannot construct "cognitive models" of their world. No chimp sits around wondering where he came from and how old the world is. Humans do.

You think chimps can't think? Your conclusion to my statement suggests that your capacity to do so is very limited. Tunnel vision one might say.

I think a child can absorb a small amount of the knowledge he needs to succeed in life; most of it he learns himself thru observation and thinking.

This is how you obtained your "degrees"?

Thats why science education has to include learning the scientific method.

I never disputed that. What on earth makes you think I did? The way to teach the method is to teach what it has achieved, and how.

The realm of philosophy and religion is ESPECIALLY an area that demonstrates someone's ability to think critically.

No they do not. The illustrate one's ability to think imaginatively. That is not synonymous with critically.

I took some time today to read the 2008 Science Education bill that Jindal signed. I also linked in the state school board actions that were directed by that law. I don't see anything that should scare anyone. Do you? If so, what are the specifics?

That is because it is designed for people like you. As to the specifics, you are obviously new to this issue, if not part of the creationist side. Your arguments sound exactly like theirs.

406 Tom From PV  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:29:40am

re: #405 Naso Tang

Naso - given the snotty tone of your reply, its doubtful this conversation is very useful. Why bother to insult me in every other sentence? Do you think that enhances your argument?

Yes, I would like some specifics from YOU. Why are you so terrified of this bill signed by Jindal? Sure, you can reply with another sidestep ("you are obviously new to the issue") or another insult ("your capacity to [think] is very limited"). But I need a specific reason, if you really want to discuss the issue.

Here's the thing. I work for a living and don't have time on my hands. If you want to discuss something with me, then spell it out. If you just want to insult, don't expect me to continue.

I found nothing scary or even upsetting about the bill signed by Jindal The BESE response was equally uneventful. If you disagree, what is the reason?

407 Tom From PV  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:07am

re: #404 Salamantis

OK, I read the testimony from Barbara Forrest and her co-author, Paul Gross. Nothing startling or compelling, imho. These two people have a long history of fighting any and all references to creationism in any and all venues. Might I say that Prof Gross is a huge global warming fanatic. And describes himself as a "leftist".

What I did find compelling was Forrest's alarm that a politician had inserted language in the bill to discuss “the scientific strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories” with reference to “evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning.”

To me, our society MUST discuss global warming and cloning. If we citizens roll over and let our "betters" decided for us, we may never get out of our economic decline. I'm a lot more concerned that Forrest wants to table discussion on those points than on creationism.

I think you would be too. Does her alarm over discussing global warming in science education class give you any pause here?

408 Tom From PV  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:04am

re: #402 Spar Kling

Spar Kling -- I was very lucky, I went thru the LA Unified School district here in california at a time when there were no unions, no race politics, no bussing, none of the horrors we see today. In my science classes, the teachers were concerned with getting us taught the basics of science. There was no agenda dictated to them from their "betters" in the district offices.

Very few of the facts I learned back then help me today because its all obsolete. What helps me now is the methodology for learning that they taught me.

Your point couldn't have been stated any better: "Science requires keen observation skills, insatiable curiosity, methodical thinking, careful experimentation, and an unshakably ethical commitment to the truth, even when it leads away from some pet theory or approach."

Exactly right.

409 Achilles Tang  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 1:36:34pm

re: #406 Tom From PV


I found nothing scary or even upsetting about the bill signed by Jindal The BESE response was equally uneventful. If you disagree, what is the reason?

Read up on the DI wedge strategy, which is what you are constantly proposing. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't know you are doing so.

Science has worked just fine without the likes of Jindal passing laws that are supposed to improve it. The sole purpose of such laws are to allow the introduction of religious belief into the classroom, and to do so while denying what science knows, under the guise of what you like to call "critical thinking".

You are correct; I have no respect for your critical thinking abilities since you persist in avoiding any attempt to discuss the implications of what you support.

410 tom from pv  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 3:00:11pm

re: #409 Naso Tang

Science has worked just fine without the likes of Jindal passing laws that are supposed to improve it. The sole purpose of such laws are to allow the introduction of religious belief into the classroom, and to do so while denying what science knows, under the guise of what you like to call "critical thinking".

Jindal signed the law; the state legislators passed the law (35-0 in their Senate, 91-3 in their house). This law was NOT a product of Jindal or Republicans. The citizens overwhelmingly wanted it. I'm not sure you get that.

As for critical thinking, here goes. I can't find a single section of the law (or the BESE policies that were adopted as a result) that do anything remotely like you claim. I've looked. But you persist in saying that the law does force teaching of creationism and introduction of religion into science. It simply does not.

Now, what can I do here? You are obviously NOT going to back up your claims with any specifics. I cannot find ANYTHING that remotely supports your claims. I CAN find a section of the law that expressly forbids introducing religion into science. You keep repeating that "everyone knows it does what I say" but offer nothing to support it. This is an impasse.

And where is YOUR critical thinking? The citizens of LA and all but 3 of their legislators passed this law. That means both Dems and Republicans "own" it. Isn't that fact alone a reason to give the law the benefit of the doubt and actually try to understand it?

I guess I'll start following the Texas creationist thread. This one has played out, imo.

411 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 3:44:22pm

re: #410 tom from pv

Jindal signed the law; the state legislators passed the law (35-0 in their Senate, 91-3 in their house). This law was NOT a product of Jindal or Republicans. The citizens overwhelmingly wanted it. I'm not sure you get that.

This is not true. Bobby Jindal actively stumped for this bill, and actively promoted it along with David Barton of Wallbuilders, other fundamentalist Christian groups such as Focus on the Family, and the anti-evolution "think tank" the Discovery Institute.

As for critical thinking, here goes. I can't find a single section of the law (or the BESE policies that were adopted as a result) that do anything remotely like you claim. I've looked. But you persist in saying that the law does force teaching of creationism and introduction of religion into science. It simply does not.

I've posted numerous articles at LGF explaining why these "academic freedom" bills are simply disguised creationism bills. The Louisiana one was heavily promoted by the Discovery Institute (with Bobby Jindal) and they have a sample bill on one of their creationist websites that is the model for this one and for every other "academic freedom" bill being pushed by Republican politicians in other states.

Before you spout off on the subject and deny the creationist intent of the bills, educate yourself.

412 tom from pv  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:20:24pm

re: #411 Charles

Charles - this bill also affects education on cloning and global warming. I understand you've focused on the creationism part of it -- but the law goes far beyond that. And that's where I'm coming from -- what does the bill REALLY do, who REALLY wanted it, and what should we REALLY be concerned about.

And it is ABSOLUTELY true that this bill passed the Louisiana Senate 35-0 and their house 91-3. All but two Democrats voted for it. Yes indeed, Jindal signed and supported it -- but he had near unamimous support. This wasn't slipped in at midnight without anybody reading it!

I've posted numerous articles at LGF explaining why these "academic freedom" bills are simply disguised creationism bills. The Louisiana one was heavily promoted by the Discovery Institute (with Bobby Jindal) and they have a sample bill on one of their creationist websites that is the model for this one and for every other "academic freedom" bill being pushed by Republican politicians in other states.

But all but two Democrats voted for this bill -- so its hard to reconcile the claim that its pushed by just Republican politicians. I'm forced to conclude that Democrats ALSO supported the bill. These are Louisiana Democrats, to be sure, but are still Democrats.

Before you spout off on the subject and deny the creationist intent of the bills, educate yourself.

I'm applying the scientific method. So far, I've found NOTHING in this bill that OVERTLY supports the teaching of creationism or injecting religion into science education. I'm a skeptical person.

In point of fact I found what appears to be the opposite: "Provides that proposed law shall not be construed to promote any religious doctrine, promote discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs, or promote discrimination for or against religion or nonreligion."

OK, maybe the above is "code" for "you must teach creationism or lose your job". It just doesn't look like that to me though. So I will follow the trail and look at the curriculum set up by the BESE. I'll relate that soon. In the meantime, I don't think I'm spouting off at all, but as a relative newbie, maybe I deserved that.

413 tom from pv  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:13:30pm

Its not an easy trail to follow, but at this site you can read for yourself how the Lousisiana Board of Education defines their course of study for science. [Link: www.doe.state.la.us...]

But unfortunately, this is for 2008. The BESE has not issued anything new yet as a result of last year's bill. Oh sure there are plenty of prognostications on how awful it will be, etc -- but I'm a skeptical person when it comes to politics and education (or politics and anything). Politics seems to evoke hysteria when there should be boredom. I'll wait until I see the actual words on actual paper.

Buried in the Science section is the latest guide on teaching Biology. Currently, there isn't a thing about ID, creationism, or even god (or Huey Long!). Lets see if and how it changes. Its 79 pages long, so I'll excerpt just one section. Here are the 8 questions a Louisiana student is supposed to know about origins of life as of 2008:

1. Can students identify Charles Darwin and what he contributed to the understanding of science?
2. Can students describe two major ideas Darwin put forth in the Origin of Species?
3. Can students discern why fossils are important to the understanding of evolution?
4. Can students name one example from the fossil record that supports that evolution has occurred?
5. Can students describe radioactive dating? Can students relate how is it used to determine the age of a fossil?
6. Can students describe how DNA and proteins can be used as evidence to support the theory of evolution?
7. Can students provide some examples and explain how natural selection occurs?
8. Can students explain whether or not the antibiotic resistance of microbes is evidence for evolution?

414 Achilles Tang  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:11:00pm

re: #413 tom from pv

This sounds like a sample from a creationist test on evolution. What does it have to do with the "critical thinking" that you keep spouting about?

Every single one of your 8 questions has a stock response from creationists Gap theories, which is the whole point. Teach the gaps, not the substance.

Do you not notice that all these "questions" do not state what a student must know, but instead state what a student must question? Are you some kind of New Age nutcase who thinks all knowledge is relative and only questions are relevant?

And, you constantly bring up issues not related to evolution as if that, AGW, is your particular agenda. Why is evolution the focus of this supposed interest in science education?

Why is there no suggestion that astrology is mentioned, for example? After all, that is found in every daily newspaper in the USA. Surely it is at least as relevant?/

Are you now going to continue to avoid the issues presented to you, just as your other cohorts have done some time ago?

415 tom from pv  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:41:41pm

Naso, obviously you didn't go to the link. So I will have to spoon-feed it to you.

Had you gone, you would have seen all the curriculum for classes taught in the state of Louisana. They are broken out into areas like history, economics, mathematics, science, etc.

Now, had you gone to the section on science, you would have seen a sub-section titled "Biology". That links to a zip file of documents that layout the methodology for teaching Biologh. One of those had to do with high school. It has 79 pages. From that 79 page document, I excerpted the 8 questions.

I guess you've never taught anybody. When I teach a class on computer simulation, for example, I always outline the key questions the students should be able to answer. What is the difference between discrete event sim and continuous sim? How does Little's Law help us check that our models are correct?

The questions here are what the state of Louisiana expects a kid to learn in his biology class. Plus 79 other pages. The point is that nowhere in those 79 pages is one iota of a mention of creationism, or ID, or anything like religion. The point is that Louisiana DOES EXPECT their kids to learn evolution.

Coaching kids on learning critical thinking skills are also in those 79 pages. I just didn't want to quote all that material.

I'm sorry Naso, but I can't help but think you're way way off base here with that attitude. I've provided a ton of materials for you, even the website showing what the teachers actually teach.

416 Salamantis  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:22:44pm

re: #407 Tom From PV

OK, I read the testimony from Barbara Forrest and her co-author, Paul Gross. Nothing startling or compelling, imho. These two people have a long history of fighting any and all references to creationism in any and all venues. Might I say that Prof Gross is a huge global warming fanatic. And describes himself as a "leftist".

Ad hominem attacks upon the bill's authors constitute a 2500 year old Greek logical fallacy. The public high school science class is most definitely a venue from which empirical-evidence-bereft religious dogmas should be excluded.

What I did find compelling was Forrest's alarm that a politician had inserted language in the bill to discuss “the scientific strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories” with reference to “evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning.”

To me, our society MUST discuss global warming and cloning. If we citizens roll over and let our "betters" decided for us, we may never get out of our economic decline. I'm a lot more concerned that Forrest wants to table discussion on those points than on creationism.

I think you would be too. Does her alarm over discussing global warming in science education class give you any pause here?

Human cloning discussions belong in an ethics class. I have no problems with public school discussion of the empirical science both supporting and undermining the AGW thesis. Notice that this is possible because even though AGW my be bad science, it is science nonetheless, and is thus subject to experimental investigation and interrogation, and empirical verification/falsification. Creationism/ID, on the other hand, is supported by no empirical evidence whatsoever; it is not mpirical science, but religious dogma, and as such does not belong in public high school science class.

[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

The legislature could have recommended that the AGW and human cloning issues be discussed without including creationism/ID, but creationism/ID was the entire purpose of the bill, asnd those other issues were simply added because they are popular and their inclusion was expected to win support for it.

The inclusion of those issues was a also Disco Intitute engineered Trojan Horse fig leaf with which to cover and conceal their prime objective - to insinuate the proselytizaion of a particular religious viewpoint, not shared by other religions, into a class whch should not be about religion at all. It violates the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America by favoring some religions' doctrines over others, and the Free Exercise clause of that selfsame Amendment by allowing all public high school science class children to be mistaught sectarian religious dogmas as empirical fact, even when those children and their parents belong to faiths that do not share those dogmas.

What will hamstring the US climbing out of its economic decline wll be the religiously motivated bioscience miseducation of our nation's children, costing them understanding and therefore competency compared with children who are not so mistaught, and ensuring that bioscience discoveries, innovations, and the manufacture and sale of products and services that flow from them originate not in the US, but in other countries that do not so intellectually handicap their children in the bioscience fields. A dearth of competent bioscientists will also damage us in the national security arena, as we will have less of an ability to respond quickly and competently to a threatened or perpetrated bioweapons attack by terrorist organizations and/or rogue nations.

417 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:17:37pm

re: #415 tom from pv

Naso, obviously you didn't go to the link. So I will have to spoon-feed it to you.

You repeatedly simply state that YOU see nothing in this for concern, yet many do and not just here at LGF.

You obviously have not educated yourself regarding the wedge strategy by The D.I., which was instrumental in the wording of this bill.

The bill is targeted to people like you, who see no problem with discussing any nutty beliefs in science classes, thereby giving them an implied respect.

The way to dismiss such "theories" is not to give them a forum at all, but to teach what is known and let them try to dispute what science can proveby using the same methodology. That is how to teach critical thinking, not by making schools a forum for fundamentalists.

I repeat, you sound like a plant from the Disco Institute.

418 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 18, 2009 3:51:05pm

re: #415 tom from pv

Tom, come back if you wish, but not after you have read this which answers most of what you don't want to know.
What the Louisiana Science Education Act is not

419 Mr Secul  Sat, Apr 18, 2009 5:43:43pm

re: #417 Naso Tang

You obviously have not educated yourself regarding the wedge strategy by The D.I., which was instrumental in the wording of this bill.

At this point I have stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt. He knows all about the wedge strategy and the past history of this issue. He is not an innocent, nor is he simply naive.

I repeat, you sound like a plant from the Disco Institute.

No kidding.

He says that he is well educated and has impressive critical thinking skills.

re: #399 tom from pv

I have three degrees (math, aero engineering, computer science) and make my living by employing critical thinking every day.

Fair enough, he's not a dummy so when he seems to miss the point we can't just assume that he made a simple mistake.

re: #412 tom from pv

I'm applying the scientific method. So far, I've found NOTHING in this bill that OVERTLY supports the teaching of creationism or injecting religion into science education. I'm a skeptical person.

Notice OVERTLY? He knows full well that there is covert provision in the bill that supports the teaching of creationism or injecting religion into science education.

Its this

“The bill is a bold statement protecting the freedom of teachers to discuss both the scientific evidence for and against Darwinian evolution and other controversial scientific theories,” said Casey Luskin, an attorney and program officer for public policy and legal affairs at Discovery Institute. “The bill does exactly what it says, which is to allow teachers and school districts to ‘use supplemental textbooks and other instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner.’”

That is the point of the bill. The creationists know that they can't touch the official curriculum, any meddling would be caught. This is why they want to allow teachers to bring other materials into the classroom.

All his talk about the soundness of the official curriculum is missing the point.

Now if he was just a dummy I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and I would just point out his error to him.

But since we know that he is NOT a dummy I conclude that he didn't make a mistake and is intentionally trying to muddy the waters. He knows the point of the bill and he agrees with the intent of the bill.

420 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 18, 2009 6:58:17pm

re: #419 Mr Secul

I am inclined to agree, but the only thing that let me give him some benefit of the doubt is that he has also said some really dumbass things, not only in this thread on this subject, that suggest stupidity.

But your summation is appreciated.


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