Breaking: Obama Will Not Prosecute CIA Officers for Waterboarding

US News • Views: 4,247

This breaking news is going to drive the left completely crazy. (A short drive.)

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration on Thursday informed CIA officials who used waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics on terror suspects that they will not be prosecuted, senior administration officials told The Associated Press.

Even before President Barack Obama took office in January, aides signaled his administration was not likely to bring criminal charges against CIA employees for their roles in the secret, coercive terrorist interrogation program. It had been deemed legal at the time through opinions issued by the Justice Department under the Bush administration.

But the statement being issued Thursday by Attorney General Eric Holder, the nation’s chief law enforcement officer, is the first definitive assurance that those CIA officials are in the clear, as long as their actions were in line with the legal advice at the time.

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448 comments
1 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:50:49am

Let 'em go crazy... err... let 'em go crazier.

2 johnnyreb  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:50:56am

Wow Kos's head is going to explode!

3 dahozho  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:51:15am

Its not a drive, its a putt!

4 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:51:21am

That's some good news. I applaud Obama for the decision, no matter what the reason may be.

5 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:51:26am

"Hello, Suicide Prevention Hotline..."

- "Hi, my name is Markos..."

6 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:51:56am

So they are going to have to back up?

7 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:52:06am

re: #2 johnnyreb

Wow Kos's head is going to explode!

I sure as hell hope so. Brought some popcorn just to see it happen.

8 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:52:21am

Selling them out left and right. When will they realize they've been pwnd.

/and when do, then what? Interesting times ....

9 acwgusa  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:52:21am

Let's Go Waterboarding Now! Everybody's learning how! Come on and go waterboarding with me!

/Gitmo Beach Boys.

10 Joan Not of Arc  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:52:22am

Dare I say it- some people want results and don't care how they get them? I'm just saying.
It could also be that he approves. Or not.
Again, just saying.

11 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:52:28am

re: #4 Honorary Yooper

That's some good news. I applaud Obama for the decision, no matter what the reason may be.

They are still doing them perhaps?

12 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:52:47am

Good decision, Mr. President.

13 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:53:00am

re: #11 Oh no...Sand People!

They are still doing them perhaps?

If it's making the country any safer, by all means.

14 Sharmuta  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:53:12am

I'm once again pleasantly surprised that the president has made a good decision on the WoT. For the sake of this country's security, I hope it continues.

15 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:53:31am

re: #11 Oh no...Sand People!

They are still doing them perhaps?

No idea, but maybe Obama and his administration are waking up to the threat. Maybe. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

16 Racer X  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:54:05am

Now this I can agree with.

Thank you Mr. President.

17 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:54:17am

re: #4 Honorary Yooper

That's some good news. I applaud Obama for the decision, no matter what the reason may be.

OTOH, he could let them off the hook (as victims of the evil BushHitler), then proceed with the "war crimes trials" of Bush, Cheney, Rummy, etc. Or it could be he doesn't want to set a precedent, in case his administration has to do the same things.

18 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:54:19am

Fine, Good, Dandy but there was no way they were going to prosecute anyone.

19 Spider Mensch  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:54:59am

he made need those guys...once they get their DHS data bases updated with all the info on the people who attended the tea parties yesterday, them interegators might just be back in business .......wheeeee!
/

20 Athens Runaway  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:55:06am

re: #14 Sharmuta

I'm once again pleasantly surprised that the president has made a good decision on the WoT. For the sake of this country's security, I hope it continues.

My thoughts exactly.

I think that being aware of all of the threats America faces tends to make one... conservative-ish.

21 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:55:31am

re: #17 Ward Cleaver

OTOH, he could let them off the hook (as victims of the evil BushHitler), then proceed with the "war crimes trials" of Bush, Cheney, Rummy, etc. Or it could be he doesn't want to set a precedent, in case his administration has to do the same things.

Very true. Obama, like most politicians, is an opportunist, a magician of the art of the possible.

22 Rancher  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:55:33am

This is great news, CIA operatives can be diligent in carrying out their duties without fear that some future administration will come after them. They may be hamstrung by current guidelines but at least won't be afraid to follow those guidelines in fear that the next administration will go after them. This is going to be the most liberal terrorist loving president in a long while and if he doesn't prosecute a witch hunt no one will.

23 badger1970  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:55:48am

The government don't have to prosecute them but what will happen if a NYT reporter asks for names?

24 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:55:48am

See, it's OK for the Demo☭rats to OK waterboarding for the purpose of extracting life-saving intelligence information from the Terrorists...but not for the Republicans.
What's wrong with this picture?

25 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:56:04am

re: #15 Honorary Yooper

No idea, but maybe Obama and his administration are waking up to the threat. Maybe. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

I have a secret hope that he will be all 'talky talky' / look at my image...but underneath he unleashes the 'cruel / cold / full of hate and angst' / infanticide Obama that we have all come to love and enjoy on our enemies...and they just get it handed to them...

In the case of the Pirates...under Bill? They would still be out their... Jimmy? Hell, they'd have transfered them to Yachts. But Obama took them down.

26 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:56:05am

Good for them. Intelligence personnel need to know that they won't be prosecuted for doing their duty.

27 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:56:27am

re: #18 Nevergiveup

Fine, Good, Dandy but there was no way they were going to prosecute anyone.

I wouldn't have bet the farm on that. And I don't think that everybody involved in the war on terror is totally out of the woods yet.

28 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:56:27am

re: #24 Macker

See, it's OK for the Demo☭rats to OK waterboarding for the purpose of extracting life-saving intelligence information from the Terrorists...but not for the Republicans.
What's wrong with this picture?

Reflects reality just about right, I would say.

29 Elcid  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:56:30am

Hat tip to you, Obama. This AND eliminating those Somalian pirates, just could make our days. Keep those sensible moves, coming.

30 jcbunga  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:56:31am

Translation: Obama determined they wouldn't be convicted.

31 AMER1CAN  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:56:35am

Ron Paul!

/had to

32 NonNativeTexan  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:57:00am

Prosecuting , would be like mailing speeding tickets to motorists
for traveling at 70 miles an hour 6 months ago (which was the posted
limit 6 months ago), because the speed limit was changed to 55 mph
yesterday.

33 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:57:00am

Good. This would have been horribly damaging, and I give Obama credit for resisting the temptation.

The other piece of good news; Spanish Attorney General throws cold water on the idea of prosecuting US officials for "torture" at Guantánamo.

34 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:57:08am

re: #23 badger1970

The government don't have to prosecute them but what will happen if a NYT reporter asks for names?

Somebody in govt. is liable to leak them, especially if they're unhappy about this decision.

35 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:57:28am

Well done, Mr. President.

36 gruvin  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:57:32am

Waterboarding= no big deal. Women's panties on your head while you pose naked under force? War crime!

37 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:57:44am

Meanwhile, on another front in the war...

Mich. Muslim Group Says FBI Asking People To Spy
Concerns Have Grown After A Recent Revelation That The FBI Planted A Spy In A SoCal Mosque

A Michigan Muslim organization* has called on U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate complaints the FBI is asking followers of the faith to spy on Islamic leaders and congregations.

*CAIR, of course.

38 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:58:11am

re: #27 Son of the Black Dog

I wouldn't have bet the farm on that. And I don't think that everybody involved in the war on terror is totally out of the woods yet.

If the Obama administration tried any crap like that, all bets would be off, and they could kiss off any and all support from both the Military and the Intelligence Communities. There simply is a LINE you do not cross. The more rational people on the left realize that.

39 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:58:17am

re: #33 Occasional Reader

Good. This would have been horribly damaging, and I give Obama credit for resisting the temptation.

The other piece of good news; Spanish Attorney General throws cold water on the idea of prosecuting US officials for "torture" at Guantánamo.

Wish they'd drop an anvil on the guy who proposed that idea.

/p-Tang!

40 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:58:28am

re: #23 badger1970

The government don't have to prosecute them but what will happen if a NYT reporter asks for names?

Or some Eurocrat grabs a former CIA operative and ships them to Spain for trial.

41 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:58:51am
42 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:59:13am

re: #36 gruvin

Women's panties on your head while you pose naked under force? War crime! Just your average LA liberal party.

FTFY!

43 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:59:25am

re: #41 taxfreekiller

Is subject changing a universal characteristic of all liberal Democrats?

Does a bear... well, you know...

44 Racer X  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:59:28am

re: #24 Macker

See, it's OK for the Demo☭rats to OK waterboarding for the purpose of extracting life-saving intelligence information from the Terrorists...but not for the Republicans.
What's wrong with this picture?

I'm pretty sure they stopped all official waterboarding.

45 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 11:59:37am

By staking this position, 0bama may be finally starting to hit his stride as a rookie facing the harsh realities of his position. This will turn the left into banshees.

46 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:00:21pm

re: #33 Occasional Reader

Good. This would have been horribly damaging, and I give Obama credit for resisting the temptation.

The other piece of good news; Spanish Attorney General throws cold water on the idea of prosecuting US officials for "torture" at Guantánamo.

* * * *
A country like Spain that pals around with Fidel Castron in his Gulag and doesn't say peep about Fidel's political prisoners, could hardly equate our squeaky clean GITMO facility with Fidel's 60 year old torture chambers.

47 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:00:33pm

re: #45 pink freud

By staking this position, 0bama may be finally starting to hit his stride as a rookie facing the harsh realities of his position. This will turn the left into banshees.

Now I would PAY to see that!

48 world b. free  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:00:48pm

It must be maddening for the Kos Kidz to watch Obama forced to make adult decisions about national security.

49 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:00:57pm

re: #45 pink freud

By staking this position, 0bama may be finally starting to hit his stride as a rookie facing the harsh realities of his position. This will turn the left into banshees.

Giant papier mache' Obama heads. I can't wait!

/with fangs dripping blood

50 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:01:38pm

re: #48 world b. free

It must be maddening for the Kos Kidz to watch Obama forced to make adult decisions about national security.

They're choking on their Cheetos.

/mom!

51 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:01:57pm

Gosh, Obama does the proper thing. Again.

Gonna drive the righteous right a bit mad, too. Also a short drive.

52 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:01:59pm

re: #23 badger1970

The government don't have to prosecute them but what will happen if a NYT reporter asks for names?

/The NYT will be out of business before the FOIA request will be processed.

53 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:02:02pm

re: #25 Oh no...Sand People!

... But Obama took them down.

I think you're giving Obama too much credit. (And he's taking too much credit, I expect a White House photo op at any minute.)

The on-the-scene commander was just interpreting the rules of engagement to the fullest in order to resolve the situation.

54 Ben Hur  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:02:13pm

Very interesting situation.

The question is as follows:

Will the left freak out?

Or, will they come to understand that The One, who expressed 100% agreement with the left against Bush, and made that very clear during the elections, only NOW has access to the information of how bad the threat of attack REALLY is, and that it wasn't Bush doing what The One did with the economic panic - PLAYING ON OUR FEARS - to steal our civil rights.

Will they be rational and think, "wow, maybe there are things that WE DO NOT KNOW?" , or will they stick to their ideological far left liberal orthodoxy even though their # 1 liberal in the world, has changed his mind.

Will they trust in their Messiah? Will they find out what the Joos have on The One to make him do this?!?

I say, FREAK OUT!

Youtube Video
55 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:02:29pm

re: #46 alegrias

* * * *
A country like Spain that pals around with Fidel Castron in his Gulag and doesn't say peep about Fidel's political prisoners, could hardly equate our squeaky clean GITMO facility with Fidel's 60 year old torture chambers.

Once they're al-Andalus again, it won't matter.

56 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:02:32pm

re: #46 alegrias

* * * *
A country like Spain that pals around with Fidel Castron in his Gulag and doesn't say peep about Fidel's political prisoners, could hardly equate our squeaky clean GITMO facility with Fidel's 60 year old torture chambers.

I had pretty much that same exchange with a Paraguayan I know who was all over the "oh, goody, Obama will close Gitmo, that crime against humanity!" schtick. I asked him, "puedo asumir que estás así de preocupado sobre las condiciones carcelarias en TODA la isla de Cuba?"

Never did get an answer.

57 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:02:58pm

re: #48 world b. free

It must be maddening for the Kos Kidz to watch Obama forced to make adult decisions about national security.

Soon to be Markos "Screw You Obama!" Moulitsas...

Then I say, "Welcome to the club...."?
/

58 Neutral President  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:03:20pm

re: #33 Occasional Reader

Good. This would have been horribly damaging, and I give Obama credit for resisting the temptation.

The other piece of good news; Spanish Attorney General throws cold water on the idea of prosecuting US officials for "torture" at Guantánamo.

And Spanish courts have jurisdiction over this how?

59 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:03:31pm

re: #33 Occasional Reader

Good. This would have been horribly damaging, and I give Obama credit for resisting the temptation.

The other piece of good news; Spanish Attorney General throws cold water on the idea of prosecuting US officials for "torture" at Guantánamo.

Next headline: Spanish Attorney General investigated for "water boarding."

60 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:03:59pm

re: #54 Ben Hur

Will the left freak out?

Or, will they come to understand that The One, who expressed 100% agreement with the left against Bush, and made that very clear during the elections, only NOW has access to the information of how bad the threat of attack REALLY is

Short, easy answer; they'll be split. The hard left will freak out, the more centrist liberals will not. Remember, International ANSWER already held a "stop the wars!" rally in DC, a few weeks ago; even now, in the Age of The One.

61 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:04:08pm

re: #58 ArchangelMichael

And Spanish courts have jurisdiction over this how?

Aren't they doing this through the International Criminal Court (ICC)?

63 Ben Hur  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:04:20pm

WHAT DOES THIS DO TO THE TEABAGGERS?!?!?!?!?!?

64 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:04:55pm

re: #62 Kenneth

Just for some balance:

More than 150 countries routinely carry out torture, Amnesty International said yesterday in its first global survey of torture in 16 years.

I didn't know AI had 150 names for Israel/

65 AMER1CAN  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:04:56pm

And in other news, I announce today that I won't kick my dog after all.
/

66 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:04:57pm

re: #63 Ben Hur

Don't say that word!

67 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:03pm

re: #56 Occasional Reader

I had pretty much that same exchange with a Paraguayan I know who was all over the "oh, goody, Obama will close Gitmo, that crime against humanity!" schtick. I asked him, "puedo asumir que estás así de preocupado sobre las condiciones carcelarias en TODA la isla de Cuba?"

Never did get an answer.

Was there an audible grinding, or perhaps a loud snap, that came out of his ear?

68 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:14pm

Well, I'll be keel-hauled. Old Cod Van Voorhies was right. He is one of us.///

69 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:21pm

This must be the change the left was hoping for!
Oh wait. . .

Seriously though. . .has Obama given us any substantive change thus far beyond massively increasing federal spending?

70 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:21pm

re: #56 Occasional Reader

I had pretty much that same exchange with a Paraguayan I know who was all over the "oh, goody, Obama will close Gitmo, that crime against humanity!" schtick. I asked him, "puedo asumir que estás así de preocupado sobre las condiciones carcelarias en TODA la isla de Cuba?"

Never did get an answer.

* * * *
Well done, amigo.

There's no CHRISTMAS in Fidel's jails.
There's prayers to Mecca 5 times a day in GITMO, with prayer rugs, beanies, & Korans.

You can't smuggle Bibles into Cuba, probablemente. You know, Bibles are too REVOLUCIONARIO for Marxists.

71 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:26pm

re: #63 Ben Hur

WHAT DOES THIS DO TO THE TEABAGGERS?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm sure there's some absolutely filthy double meaning of "waterboarding" out there somewhere, too...

72 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:31pm

re: #63 Ben Hur

You'd have to ask Barney Frank...are you sure you really want to do that?

73 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:48pm

re: #40 Son of the Black Dog

Or some Eurocrat grabs a former CIA operative and ships them to Spain for trial.

The Spanish have backed off - good. For now.
But how about the Int'l. Court of Justice? Or whatever it's called.

74 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:05:51pm

re: #63 Ben Hur

Depends on whether you can teabag and waterboard simultaneously...

/It does seem rather...gymnastic.

75 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:06:06pm

re: #63 Ben Hur

Please--it is a vulgarism. Thanks.

76 turn  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:06:12pm

re: #54 Ben Hur

He's too big to fail, I think they'll give him a pass after a little soul searching. Lefties always find a way to justify their hypocrisy.

77 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:06:27pm

re: #71 Occasional Reader

I'm sure there's some absolutely filthy double meaning of "waterboarding" out there somewhere, too...

New PC Term:

Enema's of the State.

78 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:06:31pm

re: #67 MrSilverDragon

Was there an audible grinding, or perhaps a loud snap, that came out of his ear?

It was via e-mail. Hopefully, I caused him to have to buy a new monitor and/or keyboard.

79 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:06:40pm

re: #69 Yashmak

This must be the change the left was hoping for!
Oh wait. . .

Seriously though. . .has Obama given us any substantive change thus far beyond massively increasing federal spending?

If we could get the Blue Dog Democrats on board, we could outflank him on some of those things.

80 Ben Hur  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:06:42pm

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that 99% of the Tea Party protestors support this action.

Look at who they are associating with!

81 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:07:00pm

re: #73 Son of the Black Dog

The Spanish have backed off - good. For now.
But how about the Int'l. Court of Justice? Or whatever it's called.

Pronounced "Justass"

82 Neutral President  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:07:04pm

re: #61 Ward Cleaver

Aren't they doing this through the International Criminal Court (ICC)?

Which has jurisdiction over the US how?

Or did Obama sign us up for that abomination?

83 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:07:04pm

re: #56 Occasional Reader

Did you ask him about the common use of torture in Paraguay?

84 acwgusa  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:07:35pm

re: #52 Creeping Eruption

/The NYT will be out of business before the FOIA request will be processed.

The minute the NYT goes out of business, I will be throwing a party the likes of which the world has never seen.

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:07:41pm

It's Bush's third term!
/

86 Land Shark  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:07:50pm

Wow, I bet there's plenty of moonbats with exploding heads as we speak, especially in the People's Republic Of The Bay Area. Not that there's anything wrong with that....

87 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:07:54pm

re: #84 acwgusa

The minute the NYT goes out of business, I will be throwing a party the likes of which the world has never seen.

Will it be a party like it's 1999?

88 CLLRusso  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:08:03pm

Isn't the same Spanish court threatening Israeli military and political leaders with the same stuff? What ever happened to that?

89 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:08:04pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh.

90 acwgusa  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:08:13pm

re: #87 Yashmak

Will it be a party like it's 1999?

2999.

91 Sharmuta  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:08:22pm

re: #69 Yashmak

This must be the change the left was hoping for!
Oh wait. . .

Seriously though. . .has Obama given us any substantive change thus far beyond massively increasing federal spending?

It's the status quo we can believe in?

92 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:08:30pm

re: #83 Kenneth

Did you ask him about the common use of torture in Paraguay?

Actually, he knows all about it; he really does have friends who were "disappeared" by the Stroessner regime, and others who were tortured. So I cut him a little slack on his leftism.

93 IslandLibertarian  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:08:46pm

I've read on a few LEFT-wing blogs that "Bush and Chaney should be arrested AND TORTURED for their war crimes."

All animals are equal...........you know the rest.

94 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:09:11pm

Could it be this statement from admin officials was made to simply send a clear statement to Spain that they need rethink their silly witch hunt?

95 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:09:11pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

It's Bush's third term!
/

* * *
Without the bashing!

The deluxe money-is-no-object Bush 3rd term, with lotsa global love...

96 Ben Hur  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:09:34pm

bbl

97 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:09:59pm

re: #96 Ben Hur

Fine. Just go. We see how you are.
/

98 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:10:09pm

Note what else was included in the reports:

Obama has ordered the CIA's secret overseas prisons known as "black sites" closed, ended so-called "extraordinary renditions" of terrorism suspects if there is any reason to believe the third country would torture them, and restricted CIA questioners to only those interrogation methods and protocols approved for use by the U.S. military until a complete review of the program is conducted.

Also Thursday, Holder was formally revoking every legal opinion or memo issued during Bush's presidency that justified interrogation programs. Obama had already said his administration would not rely upon them.

Still, the documents have been the subject of a long, fierce debate in and outside government over how much officials should say about the tough treatment of detainees.

The Bush administration held the view that the president had the authority to claim broad powers that could not be checked by Congress or the courts in order to keep Americans safe. Obama and Holder, among others, have said that the use of such unchecked powers has actually made Americans less safe, by increasing anti-U.S. sentiment, endangering American troops when captured and handing terrorists a recruiting tool.

Still, the officials described the president's process of deciding how much to release in response to the suit as a very difficult one. Four weeks in the making, the process resulted in intense debates involving the president, Cabinet members, lower-level officials and even former administration officials.

So, they've ended all the programs that Obama and his ilk claimed made the US somehow less safe (all while preventing AQ to carry out terror attacks on US soil since 9/11), but now ending the same programs will somehow make the country more safe? Bass-ackward logic at that.

US policy to kill terrorists isn't making the country less safe since dead terrorists can't carry out, plot, or orchestrate further attacks.

Besides, if US policy was indeed causing increasing anti-U.S. sentiment, then why is Obama continuing the UAV airstrikes in Pakistan against Taliban and AQ, where the Pakistanis have repeatedly claimed that such attacks ARE increasing anti-US sentiment and have the potential to destabilize the Zardari regime.

There is an explanation for all this:

All Obama pronouncements come with an expiration date.

99 capitalist piglet  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:10:13pm

Checked a lefty comment site. Some anger, some hoping that this is merely a prelude to the prosecution of Bush and Cheney, and an attempt to secure the testimony of those below them.

100 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:10:20pm

bbl

101 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:10:30pm

re: #93 IslandLibertarian

I've read on a few LEFT-wing blogs that "Bush and Chaney should be arrested AND TORTURED for their war crimes."

All animals are equal...........you know the rest.

* * * *
One woman who suggested that, now works in the Defense Department as an advisor. Rosa Brooks of the L.A. Times said such things on the record!

102 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:10:45pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

It's Bush's third term!
/

If protesters really want to irk people, they should go with that instead of the incredibly stupid "Obama = Hitler" crap.

103 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:11:06pm

re: #91 Sharmuta

It's the status quo we can believe in?

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

This was apparently the small print of Obama's "Change We Can Believe In" mantra.

104 BatGuano  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:11:53pm

I think Obama is starting to discover that confronting reality is like being struck in the face by a wet flounder.

105 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:11:56pm

OT,

Who are all the blonde women greeting Pres. Obama in Mexico with Presidente Calderon? Looked like the Bush Twins.

106 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:11:58pm

re: #99 capitalist piglet

Checked a lefty comment site. Some anger, some hoping that this is merely a prelude to the prosecution of Bush and Cheney, and an attempt to secure the testimony of those below them.

I hadn't thought about that angle.

107 midwestgak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:12:33pm

"as long as?" What a gaping hole. . . . as long as their actions were in line with the legal advice at the time.

108 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:12:38pm

re: #74 joncelli

Depends on whether you can teabag and waterboard simultaneously...

/It does seem rather...gymnastic.

Somewhere on the internet, there is a site for that.

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:12:49pm

re: #91 Sharmuta

It's the status quo we can believe in?

That one should go on a protest sign as well. Status Quo We Can Believe In!

110 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:13:06pm

re: #82 ArchangelMichael

Which has jurisdiction over the US how?

Or did Obama sign us up for that abomination?

No, but Spain did.

ICC

A snip:

The ICC can generally exercise jurisdiction only in cases where the accused is a national of a state party, the alleged crime took place on the territory of a state party, or a situation is referred to the court by the United Nations Security Council.[11] The court is designed to complement existing national judicial systems: it can exercise its jurisdiction only when national courts are unwilling or unable to investigate or prosecute such crimes.[12][13] Primary responsibility to investigate and punish crimes is therefore left to individual states.[14]

It doesn't sound like Spain has any legal standing, unless they're claiming that there are Spanish citizens being held at Gitmo.

111 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:13:23pm

re: #105 alegrias

OT,

Who are all the blonde women greeting Pres. Obama in Mexico with Presidente Calderon?

Las esposas Stepford!

112 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:13:24pm

re: #88 CLLRusso

Isn't the same Spanish court threatening Israeli military and political leaders with the same stuff? What ever happened to that?

They went after Pinochet, too.

113 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:13:30pm

Somali Pirate Blog!

Mogadishu Tea Party a Big Success!

114 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:13:36pm

re: #108 Honorary Yooper

Somewhere on the internet, there is a site for that.

Waterbaggingdotcom...

Just kidding...made it up...

115 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:05pm

re: #98 lawhawk

There is an explanation for all this:

All Obama pronouncements come with an expiration date.

Welcome to the way Chicago-style politics works. Everything (except taxes) has an expiration date, and everything is for sale.

116 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:15pm
117 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:16pm

re: #105 alegrias

OT,

Who are all the blonde women greeting Pres. Obama in Mexico with Presidente Calderon? Looked like the Bush Twins.

Prussian Blue?

/throwing in some nazi crap

118 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:16pm

removes Hazmat suit*

ok, I peeked at Kos.

Not ONE word about this over there. There is, however, a VERY disappointed-sounding post about the NSA thing:

("Remember last year when we were working so hard against the FISAAA? Remember how the progressive blogosphere and a too small minority of Democrats in Congress argued that this legislation gave away far too many critical civil liberty protections? Well, guess what...")

Oh, and their top diary is: "They hate him because he is black"

119 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:23pm

re: #113 Kenneth

Somali Pirate Blog!

Mogadishu Tea Party a Big Success!

I love it: " . . .most were only lightly armed." LOL.

120 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:25pm

re: #110 Ward Cleaver

It doesn't sound like Spain has any legal standing, unless they're claiming that there are Spanish citizens being held at Gitmo.

IIRC that was, indeed, the basis of the initial complaint.

121 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:49pm

This won't drive the left crazy.

Just like the surge in Afghanistan did not drive them crazy.

Just like the continuation of wiretaps does not drive them crazy.

Only one thing drives them crazy - not being in power.

122 anubis_soundwave  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:51pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

It's Bush's third term!
/

You gave the "/sarc", but that's what the Hillary Democrats griped about during the '08 elections: Obama would be "another Bush".

My private response then: God, I hope so.

Now, after seeing the DEFICIT CHART: God I wish he'd only spend as much as Bush did.

I tell you, if our last president were a Democrat (same beliefs, same goofy Conneticu-texan accent---even the same name!), we would've had McCain as PotUS now--or better yet, a stronger conservative.

Oh, well....

123 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:14:52pm

re: #113 Kenneth

HA HA!

124 BatGuano  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:15:05pm

re: #9 acwgusa

"... Not just a fad 'cause it's been goin' on so long.

125 Rancher  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:15:21pm

re: #45 pink freud

By staking this position, 0bama may be finally starting to hit his stride as a rookie facing the harsh realities of his position. This will turn the left into banshees.

Slowly puling out of Iraq as events on the ground dictate, a surge in Afghanistan, going to court to support wiretapping policies, keeping Gitmo open, at least until he can figure out what to do with terrorists whose home countries don't want them back, overseas renditions of terrorists, bombing extremist Muslims in Pakistan, pretty much doing everything Bush did. Banshees indeed. Lets see if wonder-boy even gets his own party's nomination in 2012.

126 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:15:25pm

re: #113 Kenneth

Somali Pirate Blog!

Mogadishu Tea Party a Big Success!

So they went even less Somali government?!

/

127 RaiderDan  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:15:30pm

Just goes to show that liberal Democrats will say and do ANYTHING to get elected, and then turn their backs on their base once they get there.

Obama promised ending the Iraq war, and ending up praising US troops for a job well done. Obama promised closing Gitmo, and now realizes he can't.
Obama campaigned on fighting terrorism without undermining "our values" (code for no waterboarding) and now he realizes he's on watch, and responsible for what actually happens.

Once again, the liberal left gets punked.

Hopefully, they'll be as disillusioned with their party in 2010 as conservatives were with their party in 2006 and 2008 and stay home.

128 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:15:52pm

re: #92 Occasional Reader

It's still going on, under the new "progressive" gov't.

129 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:15:53pm

Good.

Now if only we could resume the policy of waterboarding...

130 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:16:14pm

re: #118 pink freud

removes Hazmat suit*

ok, I peeked at Kos.

Not ONE word about this over there. There is, however, a VERY disappointed-sounding post about the NSA thing:

It saddens me a bit that I take pleasure from others' disappointment. . .but I guess that I sometimes do.

131 turn  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:17:08pm

re: #125 Rancher

overseas renditions of terrorists

LH's 98 above said black sites were being closed

132 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:17:25pm

re: #130 Yashmak

It saddens me a bit that I take pleasure from others' disappointment. . .but I guess that I sometimes do.

You'll get over it.

133 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:17:39pm

re: #132 Creeping Eruption

You'll get over it.

Already am.

134 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:17:51pm

Dow +115.33
Go, Baby, go!

135 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:17:52pm

re: #4 Honorary Yooper

That's some good news. I applaud Obama for the decision, no matter what the reason may be.

Yes - a good opportunity to compliment him on being level headed. Same with the surge in Afghanistan and continued wiretapping of AQ sleepers.

I am looking forward to when we can all compliment him on saying how Bush actually made some very good decisions about national security even though they were unpopular.

136 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:17:53pm

re: #99 capitalist piglet

Checked a lefty comment site. Some anger, some hoping that this is merely a prelude to the prosecution of Bush and Cheney, and an attempt to secure the testimony of those below them.

That's what I thought - set the operatives up as victims.

137 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:18:02pm

re: #127 RaiderDan

Just goes to show that liberal Democrats all politicians will say and do ANYTHING to get elected, and then turn their backs on their base once they get there.

Obama promised ending the Iraq war, and ending up praising US troops for a job well done. Obama promised closing Gitmo, and now realizes he can't.
Obama campaigned on fighting terrorism without undermining "our values" (code for no waterboarding) and now he realizes he's on watch, and responsible for what actually happens. [ed. hope so...]

Once again, the liberal left we all gets punked.

Hopefully, they'll be as disillusioned with their party in 2010 as conservatives were with their party in 2006 and 2008 and stay home.

Fixed it..sort of..

138 snowcrash  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:18:36pm

OK, waterdogging IN, waterboarding OUT. Got it.

139 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:18:52pm

re: #131 turn

overseas renditions of terrorists

LH's 98 above said black sites were being closed

"Black site" is so un-p.c. All will be closed and re-opened as beige sites. They too, will just blend right in to their surroundings.

140 wiffersnapper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:18:53pm

The more the crazier

141 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:04pm

re: #125 Rancher

Slowly puling out of Iraq as events on the ground dictate, a surge in Afghanistan, going to court to support wiretapping policies, keeping Gitmo open, at least until he can figure out what to do with terrorists whose home countries don't want them back, overseas renditions of terrorists, bombing extremist Muslims in Pakistan, pretty much doing everything Bush did. Banshees indeed. Lets see if wonder-boy even gets his own party's nomination in 2012.

A loosely-formed snowball at this point. Gravity is a wonderful thing.

142 turn  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:04pm

re: #129 tfc3rid

Good.

Now if only we could resume the policy of waterboarding...

Yeah, and start with that frigging Murtha. That guy should be in jail instead of office.

143 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:18pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

Dow +115.33
Go, Baby, go!

The Dow is up,
The Dow isn't down.
That just means
Geithner's not in town.

144 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:32pm

re: #126 Occasional Reader

So they went want even less Somali government?!

/

[anarchistic spelling]

145 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:38pm

re: #139 Creeping Eruption

"Black site" is so un-p.c. All will be closed and re-opened as beige sites. They too, will just blend right in to their surroundings.

Black sites are about to be outlawed in California. They take too much energy to cool down.

146 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:42pm

President Obama and Presidente Calderon, working together, is a big F.U. to socialist latin american tin pot dictators such as Hugo Chavez who makes money off drugs.

Calderon has stood up to his criminal corrupt countrymen. Wow.

Si Se Puede transformar Mejico.

147 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:58pm

re: #131 turn

overseas renditions of terrorists

LH's 98 above said black sites were being closed

RACIST!

148 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:19:58pm

re: #129 tfc3rid

Good.

Now if only we could resume the policy of waterboarding...

I am fully confident that waterboarding is being performed as needed. Right now, this second, some jihadi is giving it up.

149 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:20:31pm

re: #126 Occasional Reader

So they went even less Somali government

I know how they feel. I've been trying to organize an anarchy club, but you know how that goes. It was like my other idea, "Apathetics Anonymous". No one care enough to show for the meetings.

150 jamgarr  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:20:33pm

re: #119 Creeping Eruption

I love it: " . . .most were only lightly armed." LOL.

Reminds me of the Python "Crunchy Frog" bit - " . . . lightly killed. . ."

151 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:20:52pm

re: #127 RaiderDan

Just goes to show that liberal Democrats will say and do ANYTHING to get elected, and then turn their backs on their base once they get there.

FWIW, every "stop the growth of government" Republican I have ever voted for has done the same to me.

152 KenJen  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:21:32pm

re: #129 tfc3rid

Good.

Now if only we could resume the policy of waterboarding...

Its not policy but I have a feeling it goes on behind closed doors and that's alright by me.

153 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:21:34pm

I want Obama to succeed in not prosecuting these guys.
Wow, doesn't happen much...

154 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:21:57pm

re: #150 jamgarr

Reminds me of the Python "Crunchy Frog" bit - " . . . lightly killed. . ."

...and covered in glucose.

155 zelnaga  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:21:59pm

I think the left might actually agree with this - they'd probably prefer that the people being prosecuted are those who called the shots over those that were just following orders. ie. some senior official in the Bush administration.

Indeed, the left was probably disappointed that it was Lynndie England and not some senior Bush admin who was put away for Abu Ghraib.

Of course, given a choice between those who did the acts in question and no one at all, I'm sure they'd prefer the former.

156 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:22:00pm

Beware of Russian hair dressers...

Woman Hair Stylist Keeps Armed Robber as Sex Slave

She tied him to the radiator with handcuffs covered in frilly pink fabric, gave him some Viagra and had her way with him several times over the next 48 hours. When she finally let him go on the evening of March 16, Viktor had been "squeezed like a lemon," Life.ru reported.

First, he went to the hospital to have his injured genitals treated; then he went to police and filed a complaint asking that Olga be brought up on criminal charges for committing "actions of a sexual nature" that left him with injured sexual organs, according to a copy of the complaint posted on Life.ru.

Olga was apparently incensed when she learned of the complaint. She had, after all, even tried to be nice to her purported captive.

"What a jerk," Life.ru quoted her as saying. "Yeah, there were a few times. But I bought him new jeans, gave him food and drink, and gave him 1,000 rubles when he left."

Only in Russia.

157 countrygurl  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:22:14pm

That report is driving ME crazy. Hello -- NOT gaining information from terrorists makes us less safe. There is a lot in that report to make leftist America-haters happy. The O has abandonded much of our efforts to stop terrorism.

New OFFICIAL OBAMA PLAN TO END WAR ON TERROR:
STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND.

158 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:04pm

re: #156 Kenneth

Beware of Russian hair dressers...

Woman Hair Stylist Keeps Armed Robber as Sex Slave


Only in Russia.

I hope that bitch serves hard time.

159 jamgarr  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:28pm

re: #154 calcajun

...and covered in glucose.


I thought it was lark's vomit.

160 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:33pm

re: #156 Kenneth

LOL.

There are people who pay good money for that treatment. He should be lucky that he was tipped, not capped.

161 BatGuano  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:43pm

re: #151 karmic_inquisitor

At least Ronald Reagan slowed the growth of government. He couldn't stop it so he did the next best thing.

162 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:48pm

re: #159 jamgarr

That to.

163 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:50pm
and gave him 1,000 rubles when he left."

What's that, like 80 cents?

164 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:54pm

re: #156 Kenneth

Beware of Russian hair dressers...

Woman Hair Stylist Keeps Armed Robber as Sex Slave

Only in Russia.

Here in America you have to pay for that kind of service.

/Hooray Capitalism

165 oh_dude  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:23:55pm
I'd rather be waterboarding.

Isn't that a bumper-sticker?

166 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:24:30pm

re: #158 MandyManners

Like most women over there, she'll get the shaft.///

167 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:24:31pm

re: #156 Kenneth

She tied him to the radiator with handcuffs covered in frilly pink fabric, gave him some Viagra and had her way with him several times over the next 48 hours.

Well, that'll certainly teach that armed robber a lesson.

I'm not sure WHAT lesson, but...

168 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:24:49pm

re: #158 MandyManners

The male had attempted armed robbery of her shop & customers. She overpowered him and stuck him in a closet.

They should both go to jail.

169 KenJen  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:24:51pm

Taking off early today. Dogs gotta go to the vet--anal glands. Phew. Bye now.

170 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:25:06pm

re: #167 Occasional Reader

Well, that'll certainly teach that armed robber a lesson.

I'm not sure WHAT lesson, but...

LMAO over here.

171 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:25:08pm

re: #151 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, every "stop the growth of government" Republican I have ever voted for has done the same to me.

* * * *
It it's to fund our military, that's fine by me.
Cutting entitlements requires democrats to agree, which is rare & difficult.

172 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:25:35pm

With Kenneth's linked story in mind, I'm planning my armed robbery of Adriana Lima's home even as we speak.

/hope springs eternal, etc.

173 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:25:37pm

re: #168 Kenneth

The male had attempted armed robbery of her shop & customers. She overpowered him and stuck him in a closet.

They should both go to jail.

If the cops stop laughing long enough to make an arrest

174 Dianna  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:25:39pm

re: #158 MandyManners

I hope that bitch serves hard time.

Rape is rape.

175 blangwort  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:25:47pm

Even John McCain said he would have prosecuted these CIA officers. This isn't a left/right thing. Something fishy is going on here.

I think it must have been hard for Obama and Holder to do this. My best guess is that certain identities needed to be kept quiet for very good reason. The Intelligence from this activity must have been damned good, or else the people who did it were involved in other intelligence activities that are considered essential.

I think they're probably as pissed as the rest of the Left and Right who thought Obama would have been able to keep this promise.

Mind you, I think waterboarding is torture too. I think it damaged the stature of this country when the secret leaked out that it was going on. Many experienced intelligence agents will tell you that while we may not get tactical data, but we will get much more strategic data by nothing less than the good old Stockholm Syndrome.

176 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:26:02pm

It would have been a sad thing to see prosecutions for this. Considering the facts, including the context and small number of "water-boarded" terrorism suspects, any trial could only have become a circus designed (by some) to generate headlines, political indictments, etc.
As for water-boarding itself, I'm ambivalent. It's obviously harsher than blaring rock music 24 hours a day at an occupied Embassy, but it's clearly not nearly the same Torture that has been routinely practiced under the same name all over the world.

177 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:26:10pm

re: #173 calcajun

You mean Russian Cops can laugh?

178 Elcid  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:27:31pm

Then this. Obama: Memos' release required by law

179 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:27:38pm

OT,

Obama is NOT speaking Spanish, but English, in Mejico right now.

180 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:27:38pm

re: #156 Kenneth

It's like the lines from "Life of Brian"

V. Mandy : Brian, you father was a Roman soldier
Brian : Mom, you mean you were raped?
V. Mandy : Yeah. At first.

181 Dianna  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:27:43pm

re: #177 Macker

You mean Russian Cops can laugh?

It depends on how much vodka has been consumed.

182 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:27:47pm

re: #175 blangwort

Even John McCain said he would have prosecuted these CIA officers. This isn't a left/right thing. Something fishy is going on here.

Linky please.

183 dapperdave  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:27:51pm

Water boarding, I mean really, is it torture or a frat hazing ritual?

(Just a lunch time drive by posting!)

184 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:28:17pm

re: #177 Macker

Russians got weird senses of humor

185 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:28:29pm

re: #172 Occasional Reader

With Kenneth's linked story in mind, I'm planning my armed robbery of Adriana Lima's home even as we speak.

/hope springs eternal, etc.

Where is our picture for the day OR?

186 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:28:41pm

re: #161 BatGuano

At least Ronald Reagan slowed the growth of government. He couldn't stop it so he did the next best thing.

True. But I have noticed every "I am a Reagan Republican" pol that has followed has been unable to resist spending.

Bush, Armey, DeLay, Hastert, Lott ...

The list can go on and on. And they all wore the Reagan mantle.

187 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:28:43pm

re: #118 pink freud

Yeah, there is.

Breaking: No Waterboarding Prosecutions
by Freddy Bear

Most of them seem resigned that this was going to happen.

188 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:28:46pm

re: #179 alegrias

OT,

Obama is NOT speaking Spanish, but English, in Mejico right now.

He'll throw a Mexican accent on it and everything will be fine.
/

189 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:28:56pm

re: #172 Occasional Reader

Don't do it OR. The restraining order is still in effect.

190 Elcid  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:28:56pm

re: #156 Kenneth

That sucks.

191 Rancher  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:29:13pm

re: #131 turn

overseas renditions of terrorists

LH's 98 above said black sites were being closed

"... if there is any reason to believe the third country would torture them."

Some will stay open. Obama’s (State) Secrets

Though Obama’s made several clear steps toward change from the previous administration — here we pause to cite elements from the now-familiar litany: closed Guantanamo and the black sites, ended the use of torture in interrogations, made public several eye-opening post-9/11 Bush Justice Department memoranda — there has also been confusion on some issues, like rendition, and in court cases Obama lawyers have increasingly invoked Bush-era arguments, or worse.
192 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:29:26pm

re: #169 KenJen

Taking off early today. Dogs gotta go to the vet--anal glands. Phew. Bye now.

Anal Glands is your vets name? Wow his parents must have HATED him

193 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:29:32pm

re: #168 Kenneth

They should both go on Reality TV, I think you mean.

194 SecondComing  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:29:39pm

The extreme left has to be losing it right now. Obama says bringing troops home is tied to making Iraq stable and not safe haven for terrorists, Obama asks for more war funding, Obama orders the use of deadly force to free the captain from pirates, Gitmo prisoner says nothing has changed under Bush, NSA intercepts of e-mails and phone calls exceed the limits set by congress.

195 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:29:48pm

OT
Obama says one-third of Chicago's heritage is Mexican. So we are bound by much more than a border between us.

196 mattm  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:29:50pm

For the first time in my adult life I (temporally) support the current POTUS.

197 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:29:56pm

re: #180 calcajun

Not funny.

198 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:31:05pm

re: #192 Creeping Eruption

Anal Glands is your vets name? Wow his parents must have HATED him

Goes through his life repeating, "It's pronounced a-nail!"

199 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:31:05pm

re: #171 alegrias

* * * *
It it's to fund our military, that's fine by me.
Cutting entitlements requires democrats to agree, which is rare & difficult.

What about prescription drugs? Or "consolidating" agencies in the Homeland Security through a huge hiring binge?

I am strong on defense too. But government must get scaled back or it will continue to strangle the economy.

200 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:32:22pm

re: #199 karmic_inquisitor

What about prescription drugs? Or "consolidating" agencies in the Homeland Security through a huge hiring binge?

I am strong on defense too. But government must get scaled back or it will continue to strangle the economy.

* * * *
Good luck with scaling government back right now.

201 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:32:23pm

re: #198 CyanSnowHawk

Goes through his life repeating, "It's pronounced a-nail!"

ROTFLMAO

202 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:32:29pm

re: #174 Dianna

Seriously, I have never heard of a man who could be violated like this--unwillingly. Even is he is pumped full of Viagra, is it even possible (assuming he's not susceptible to lasting more than four-hours as mentioned in the warnings)?
I find it difficult to believe that there was force involved if hand cuffed (ow) to a radiator (either on or off). This might be the stuff of urban legend.

And yes--rape is rape.

203 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:32:38pm

re: #180 calcajun

Excuse me? Are you using my name in a joke about RAPE?

Maybe I'm not getting something here if the name "Mandy" is in that movie. I don't know. I've never seen it. If it is, ignore that above.

204 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:32:40pm

re: #179 alegrias

OT,

Obama is NOT speaking Spanish, but English, in Mejico right now.

"Merci beaucoup!"

205 mattm  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:32:55pm

re: #156 Kenneth

Beware of Russian hair dressers...

Woman Hair Stylist Keeps Armed Robber as Sex Slave

Only in Russia.

Um, ok.

206 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:33:21pm

re: #195 alegrias

OT
Obama says one-third of Chicago's heritage is Mexican. So we are bound by much more than a border between us.

Well, Chicago is known as the home of a government that is deeply in the pockets of criminal organizations, so this sounds like a fair assessment.
/

207 Russkilitlover  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:33:30pm

re: #56 Occasional Reader

I had pretty much that same exchange with a Paraguayan I know who was all over the "oh, goody, Obama will close Gitmo, that crime against humanity!" schtick. I asked him, "puedo asumir que estás así de preocupado sobre las condiciones carcelarias en TODA la isla de Cuba?"

Never did get an answer.

Maybe he didn't understand Spanish.

208 Buck  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:34:23pm

re: #168 Kenneth

The male had attempted armed robbery of her shop & customers. She overpowered him and stuck him in a closet.

I was quoted $50 for that same service downtown...

209 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:34:24pm

re: #204 Occasional Reader

"Merci beaucoup!"

* * **
That's a neighboring romance language, nest cey pas?

210 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:34:52pm

re: #158 MandyManners

I hope that bitch serves hard time.

hmmm.... there is something of a joke there but I won't find it....

211 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:35:07pm

re: #197 Kenneth

Your story reminded me of the line. I find the story difficult to believe--and it does have a humorous bent to it. Meant no offense.

212 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:35:18pm

re: #175 blangwort

Even John McCain said he would have prosecuted these CIA officers. This isn't a left/right thing. Something fishy is going on here.
...
Mind you, I think waterboarding is torture too. I think it damaged the stature of this country when the secret leaked out that it was going on. Many experienced intelligence agents will tell you that while we may not get tactical data, but we will get much more strategic data by nothing less than the good old Stockholm Syndrome.

The Chief intelligence officer at the time, George Tenant, stated that it was waterboarding that broke Khalid Sheik Mohammad. That's good enough for me.
Also, I like to see proof that John McCain said he'd prosecute CIA officers for waterboarding.

213 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:35:20pm

re: #207 Russkilitlover

Maybe he didn't understand Spanish.

Damn! I should have translated it to Paraguayan! Next I'll be sending e-mails to Austrians that are written in German... d'oh!

214 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:35:31pm

re: #203 MandyManners

The mother of the title character in "The Life of Brian" is named Mandy Cohen.

It's still not a funny joke.

215 alegrias  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:35:38pm

OT

Obama did not say Viva La REVOLUCION!

216 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:35:46pm

re: #208 Buck

Some guy was gonna pay you 50 bucks to go back into the closet?

217 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:03pm

re: #208 Buck

I was quoted $50 for that same service downtown...

BWAAAHAAAA!

218 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:05pm

re: #98 lawhawk

As somebody pointed out, this could be a prelude to getting CIA officers to testify against administration officials. If they can't get Bush they'll go for Cheney; if the they can't get them, they'll go for Justice Department personnel.

219 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:18pm

re: #208 Buck

I was quoted $50 for that same service downtown...

Really? For that much attention from a pro dom you'd expect to pay much more.

220 BatGuano  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:24pm

re: #186 karmic_inquisitor

Indeed they have, which makes RWR's achievement that much greater. He did what he could in the face of political realities. John McCain, in his last presidential run called himself "a foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution". He wasn't.

221 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:29pm

re: #214 Kenneth

The mother of the title character in "The Life of Brian" is named Mandy Cohen.

It's still not a funny joke.

No, it's not.

Thanks for the explaination.

222 midwestgak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:37pm

re: #179 alegrias

OT,

Obama is NOT speaking Spanish, but English, in Mejico right now.

"Bonds between U.S. and Mexico cannot be broken." (Really?) . . . "U.S. benefits from people migrating from Mexico." (Really?) "All of us are dealing with global rescission." "Important U.S. and Mexico work together." "Mexico is now a global leader." (Really?)

Quotes people, not made up.

Pull up you pants, POTUS. No one is going to kiss it any longer.

223 Noam Chumpski  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:45pm

re: #212 unrealizedviewpoint

The Chief intelligence officer at the time, George Tenant, stated that it was waterboarding that broke Khalid Sheik Mohammad. That's good enough for me.
Also, I like to see proof that John McCain said he'd prosecute CIA officers for waterboarding.

And wasn't KSM waterboarded for, like, 15 seconds or something before he broke?

224 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:50pm

re: #209 alegrias

* * **
That's a neighboring romance language, nest cey pas?

"Neighboring"? France is nowhere NEAR Mexico, silly!

/

(Remember Obama's "merci beaucoup" line?)

225 Buck  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:36:54pm

re: #216 Lincolntf

Some guy was gonna pay you 50 bucks to go back into the closet?

OR...
a woman dressed as a hairdresser was going to make me her sex slave...


Basically #3 on the menu.

226 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:37:31pm

re: #203 MandyManners

Excuse me? Are you using my name in a joke about RAPE?

Maybe I'm not getting something here if the name "Mandy" is in that movie. I don't know. I've never seen it. If it is, ignore that above.

In The Life of Brian, Brian's mother was named Mandy Cohen.

He was not using your name for a rape joke.

227 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:37:35pm

re: #214 Kenneth

The mother of the title character in "The Life of Brian" is named Mandy Cohen.

It's still not a funny joke.

Odd how the "progressive" Monty Python crew didn't figure that out.

228 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:38:16pm

re: #195 alegrias

OT
Obama says one-third of Chicago's heritage is Mexican. So we are bound by much more than a border between us.

One-third? Obama's been smoking more than just cigarettes with that one. According to the demographics on Wikipedia, Chicago only has 28.1% of its population of Hispanic or Latio background, and not all of those are Mexican in heritage. It also includes Central Americans, South Americans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, etc.

229 Racer X  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:38:19pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

Dow +115.33
Go, Baby, go!

I'm making a ton of money today.

Does that make me bad?

230 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:38:26pm

re: #223 Noam Chumpski

And wasn't KSM waterboarded for, like, 15 seconds or something before he broke?

I think he basically broke after they offered him a Perrier. Something like that.

231 BatGuano  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:38:34pm

re: #192 Creeping Eruption

Damn. I wish I'd said that. But, I'm not that clever.

232 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:39:29pm

The global warmer is finally out.
Can you hear the grass growing ?
My mower has 2 beer holders.

233 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:39:35pm

At first glance it is hard to tell British mother and daughter Janet and Jane Cunliffe apart. But it is not due to genetics. Mom Janet, 50, has spent almost $15,000 on plastic surgery in an attempt to look identical to her 28-year-old daughter, The Daily Mail reported.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

If either of these 2 sleep over your house, hide the knives and lock your bedroom door at night. TIGHT.

234 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:39:45pm

re: #229 Racer X

I'm making a ton of money today.

Does that make me bad?

Not to those people who'll get a cut.

235 Dianna  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:39:50pm

re: #202 calcajun

Seriously, I have never heard of a man who could be violated like this--unwillingly. Even is he is pumped full of Viagra, is it even possible (assuming he's not susceptible to lasting more than four-hours as mentioned in the warnings)?
I find it difficult to believe that there was force involved if hand cuffed (ow) to a radiator (either on or off). This might be the stuff of urban legend.

And yes--rape is rape.

I'm not going there. If you want to know about female-on-male rape, it does exist, and some people have actually written about it.

S.M. Stirling, for a while in his early career, had quite a thing about it. Granted, that was fiction, but still.

236 Last Mohican  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:39:54pm

I just tuned in to this thread.

Remember when I said that I'd be glad to give Obama credit when credit is due? Well it's due, and I'm givin' it. He did the right thing, and as an American, I appreciate it.

Furthermore, I hope this doesn't drive the left crazy. I think American politics is too much like a sports rivalry, when we feel cheerful whenever the other side gets "pwned." That's how this whole waterboarding controversy got started, because some moonbats were looking everywhere for something to get themselves worked into a hostile frenzy about.

I don't want to rejoice in anyone's feeling beaten and humiliated. I hope the left recognizes that Obama did the right thing, and that they feel good about it too.

237 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:40:03pm

re: #229 Racer X

Makes you smart. I'll need a couple thousand more points on the Dow before I can get my money out.

238 Spider Mensch  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:40:24pm

re: #223 Noam Chumpski

And wasn't KSM waterboarded for, like, 15 seconds or something before he broke?


well they did strap a feral cat to his head before the dunking...

239 avanti  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:40:30pm

re: #229 Racer X

I'm making a ton of money today.

Does that make me bad?

More good news on the economy, consumers are starting to be more hopeful. If that keep up, they'll start buying again and we'll make more money.

consumer.

240 razorbacker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:41:05pm

I have read that all members of the Special Forces are waterboarded during training, so let them know what it's going to probably be like should they be so unfortunate as to be captured.

Could this be true?

If it is, is waterboarding torture? If waterboarding is torture, and our guys are waterboarded during training then surely some instructor somewhere is liable under some type of military code of conduct.

Or is it only torture if done to an enemy?

241 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:41:17pm

re: #229 Racer X

I'm making a ton of money today.

Does that make me bad?

Only if you are a communist. Otherwise, never apologize for making money.

242 Russkilitlover  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:41:18pm

re: #127 RaiderDan

Just goes to show that liberal Democrats will say and do ANYTHING to get elected, and then turn their backs on their base once they get there.

And Republicans don't do the same damn thing? You must not live in California.

243 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:41:30pm

re: #230 Occasional Reader

The US waterboarded 3 people. These were top Al Qaeda commanders. They did this after all "softer" attempts at making them talk failed. Each of them was dunked once and they broke. The evidence they gave lead to the capture of hundreds more terrorists and the disruption of several ongoing terror plots.

If Obama wants to ban waterboarding, the logical outcome will be that Americans will die in a future terrorist attack.

244 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:42:28pm

re: #240 razorbacker

Yup, SERE training

245 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:42:30pm

re: #200 alegrias

* * * *
Good luck with scaling government back right now.

My point is that I continue to get mail, email and phone solicitations from Republican campaigns and PACs talking about how I need to urgently give them money to "scale back government".

Every one of them has ZERO credibility. Yet they are pandering to the tea parties.

So they are just as craven as Pelosi and Obama in how they pander to issues to get in office and then somehow lose track of those issues when in power.

I am just glad that the insanity platform they ran on seems less likely to come to fruition regarding terror/security. The economic policies will be devastating but I don't see how handing the keys to the same individuals in the Republican party who held the keys for 20 years is going to improve things.

The only one that has credibility in my mind is Gingrich but he was deposed in part because he was unreliable on pork. McCain was anti-pork but he won't get any leadership opportunities ever again.

246 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:44:16pm

re: #202 calcajun

Seriously, I have never heard of a man who could be violated like this--unwillingly. Even is he is pumped full of Viagra, is it even possible (assuming he's not susceptible to lasting more than four-hours as mentioned in the warnings)?
I find it difficult to believe that there was force involved if hand cuffed (ow) to a radiator (either on or off). This might be the stuff of urban legend.

And yes--rape is rape.

Viagra requires a little stimulation to make it work, but after that, it's like being a teenager again, there is no stopping it.

247 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:44:17pm

re: #223 Noam Chumpski

And wasn't KSM waterboarded for, like, 15 seconds or something before he broke?

These libtards who fail to recognize the value of kicking somebody's ass to get info are idiots. Of course torture woks. Don't give us some bullshit lines that they'll tell you lies just to get you to stop. Cause guess what, you lie to me I'm comin' back and beatin' ya double. Those are my countrymen, my families, my children I'm trying to protect here. You lie to me and I'll torture your ass for the next 10 days straight. And if you think this hurts...
/channeling a CIA agent trying to prevent an attack on our homeland

248 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:44:37pm

re: #240 razorbacker

Pilots, too.

249 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:44:53pm

re: #245 karmic_inquisitor

The time has never been better for a non-cult-of-personality third party, but unfortunately it would have to get started NOW to be viable in 2010 and it would split the Republican vote.

250 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:44:55pm

re: #243 Kenneth

The US waterboarded 3 people. These were top Al Qaeda commanders. They did this after all "softer" attempts at making them talk failed. Each of them was dunked once and they broke. The evidence they gave lead to the capture of hundreds more terrorists and the disruption of several ongoing terror plots.

If Obama wants to ban waterboarding, the logical outcome will be that Americans will die in a future terrorist attack.

. . .or, they have other, more effective tricks up their sleeves while the whole world perseverates about "water boarding."

251 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:45:19pm

re: #240 razorbacker

Or is it only torture if done to an enemy?

To be frank, I do think there are things that are done in, say, SERE training or Ranger School that could be considered as at least being something like "torture" if done to an enemy. For instance, the food deprivation in Ranger school alone would certainly not be considered copasetic to do to a POW.

252 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:45:31pm

re: #211 calcajun

Your story reminded me of the line. I find the story difficult to believe--and it does have a humorous bent to it. Meant no offense.

Meh, if it's any consolation, I was amused.

253 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:45:56pm

One Question Napolitano

"The GOPers - by that we mean Rep. Eric Cantor's office - are pouncing on an interview today on "Morning Joe" with Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, under this subject line: "Administration Permits Only One Question, No Follow-Ups About Extremism Report."

Today the Secretary went on Morning Joe but they were only allowed to ask one question.

"Apparently, when the Democrats promise an open administration, they really only mean open as long as you ask the questions they want asked and no follow-ups on controversial topics that everyone is reporting on," staffer Joe Pounder wrote in an email.

Anyway check out the transcript:

MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough: “I want to have a discussion afterwards about that interview.”

MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski: “Now, we should be clear, they only wanted one question.”

Scarborough: “Yeah. So this morning, I got a call that she [Janet Napolitano] was going to be on the show and they said we could only ask one question …”

Brzezinski: “That was the agreement.”

Scarborough: “…about this story yesterday. And I initially said, well, we're not going to do it then, because we don't allow people to tell us what they're going to talk about.”

Brzezinski: “Right.”

/right

254 brookly red  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:46:06pm

re: #246 CyanSnowHawk

Viagra requires a little stimulation to make it work, but after that, it's like being a teenager again, there is no stopping it.

/not even thinking of Nacy Pelosi?

255 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:46:28pm

re: #251 Occasional Reader

To be frank, I do think there are things that are done in, say, SERE training or Ranger School that could be considered as at least being something like "torture" if done to an enemy. For instance, the food deprivation in Ranger school alone would certainly not be considered copasetic to do to a POW.

Food torture? Liver, lima beans and okra for every meal?

256 razorbacker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:46:42pm

The closest that I've ever come to waterboarding was passing out on a sandbar once with a towel over my face to keep the bugs off. Started raining.

Probably don't count.

257 Last Mohican  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:46:47pm

re: #240 razorbacker

And I'm pretty sure I saw a video of an anti-American protest, in which one protester waterboarded the other one, to demonstrate what a horrible inhumane torture it is.

I'm thinking if someone volunteered to have it done to him, then it doesn't really qualify as horrible inhumane torture. Unpleasant, yes. Of questionable strategic value? Arguably. A public relations risk? Okay. But it ain't being stretched on the rack.

258 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:46:53pm

re: #208 Buck

Such a deal.///

259 Russkilitlover  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:47:07pm

re: #222 midwestgak

"Bonds between U.S. and Mexico cannot be broken." (Really?) . . . "U.S. benefits from people migrating from Mexico." (Really?) "All of us are dealing with global rescission." "Important U.S. and Mexico work together." "Mexico is now a global leader." (Really?)

Quotes people, not made up.

Pull up you pants, POTUS. No one is going to kiss it any longer.


If he starts flirting with Amnesty. Those Tea Parties are going to look like....well.....tea parties.

260 Kragarghazi  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:47:16pm

re: #246 CyanSnowHawk

Viagra requires a little stimulation to make it work, but after that, it's like being a teenager again, there is no stopping it.

Helen Thomas and her thong say differently.

261 Sharmuta  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:47:23pm

re: #255 MandyManners

Food torture? Liver, lima beans and okra for every meal?

With a nice chianti.

262 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:47:31pm

re: #250 Creeping Eruption

. . .or, they have other, more effective tricks up their sleeves while the whole world perseverates about "water boarding."

The Agony Booth!

263 calcajun  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:47:46pm

re: #221 MandyManners

Sorry-should have put a disclaimer there. My apologies.

264 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:48:19pm

re: #257 Last Mohican


I'm thinking if someone volunteered to have it done to him, then it doesn't really qualify as horrible inhumane torture.

IIRC, some elements of our military undergo waterboarding as part of their training.

265 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:48:27pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas and her thong say differently.

Oh oh ohhh! STOP!

266 turn  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:48:31pm

re: #191 Rancher

Back again, hey thanks for that. Well it would seem O hasn't strayed too far away from Bush's strategy to keep this nation protected. With O's policy I'm more worried about whether there is even going to be a nation left to protect.

267 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:48:37pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas and her thong say differently.

EEEEWWWWWW!

268 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:48:50pm
269 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:48:51pm

re: #253 pink freud

At least the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy doesn't bother keeping itself a secret anymore.
They won, after all.

270 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:48:56pm

re: #262 Occasional Reader

Ooooh, give all jihadi prisoners an agonizer and give their interrogators a goatee. "Your agonizer, please, Mr. bin Laden..."

/Yes, I'm a nerd.

271 debutaunt  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:02pm

re: #63 Ben Hur

WHAT DOES THIS DO TO THE TEABAGGERS?!?!?!?!?!?

It is a clear example of why Barney Frank speaks the way he does.

272 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:17pm

re: #255 MandyManners

Food torture? Liver, lima beans and okra for every meal?

Heh.

Did your ex do Ranger school? If so, did he talk about it? I knew a guy at a law firm where I used to work who did; he was about 6'3", burly build; said that he weighed 150 lbs. by the end of Ranger school. Sheesh.

273 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:24pm

re: #255 MandyManners

Food torture? Liver, lima beans and okra for every meal?

I knew there was something un-American about you!
I actually go to Mimi's Cafe just to be able to order those items.

274 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:37pm

re: #255 MandyManners

Food torture? Liver, lima beans and okra for every meal?

Broccoli and egg salad sandwiches followed by a poorly ventilated cell.

275 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:39pm

re: #253 pink freud

Mika Brzezinski? Carter's NSA guy's daughter? She works at MSNBC? Just perfect.

276 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:49pm

re: #269 Lincolntf

At least the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy doesn't bother keeping itself a secret anymore.
They won, after all.

They're probably wondering about now just what it is they did win.

277 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:57pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas and her thong say differently.

Helen Thomas in a thong rubbing baby oil on Donna Shallala while Janet Reno snaps pics.

278 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:49:57pm

re: #194 SecondComing

The extreme left has to be losing it right now. Obama says bringing troops home is tied to making Iraq stable and not safe haven for terrorists, Obama asks for more war funding, Obama orders the use of deadly force to free the captain from pirates, Gitmo prisoner says nothing has changed under Bush, NSA intercepts of e-mails and phone calls exceed the limits set by congress.

They're trying real hard to ignore Obama's charge toward the center, but it isn't going real well. A couple of NPR reporters have come close to actual criticism in recent days; others have found themselves in a quandary, trying to keep the praise flowing while attempting to choke back the vitriol they're so used to puking up on certain topics like a gag reflex.

It's a lot like the way the computer was acting in the final scene of that Star Trek episode where Kirk tricked it into a logical conundrum and it wound up shutting itself down, after a few minutes of increasingly frantic sputtering and emissions of blue smoke.

Heh.

279 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:50:11pm

re: #274 CyanSnowHawk

Broccoli and egg salad sandwiches followed by a poorly ventilated cell.

Argh. It's like I can smell it.

280 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:50:17pm

re: #261 Sharmuta

With a nice chianti.

LOL! Thanks for the giggle.

281 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:50:36pm

re: #277 Creeping Eruption

Helen Thomas in a thong rubbing baby oil on Donna Shallala while Janet Reno snaps pics.

EEEEWWWWWW!

282 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:50:52pm

re: #263 calcajun

Sorry-should have put a disclaimer there. My apologies.

It's okay. That's the one subject that can render me completely un-hinged.

283 Last Mohican  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:50:53pm

re: #251 Occasional Reader

To be frank, I do think there are things that are done in, say, SERE training or Ranger School that could be considered as at least being something like "torture" if done to an enemy. For instance, the food deprivation in Ranger school alone would certainly not be considered copasetic to do to a POW.

Not to mention the sleep deprivation, from what I've seen. Which, frankly, isn't much. The closest I've been to Ranger School is on my couch, about six feet away from the TV screen while a documentary was on. Those are some better men than I who go through that.

284 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:50:57pm
285 J.S.  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:51:03pm

re: #211 calcajun

The story does sound like some urban legend....(btw, there was that other recent claim out of Russia -- the guy who had a pine tree growing inside of his lung -- now that was an obvious joke...)

286 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:51:09pm

re: #275 MandyManners

Mika Brzezinski? Carter's NSA guy's daughter? She works at MSNBC? Just perfect.

Since around about election time, I believe.

287 midwestgak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:51:10pm

re: #255 MandyManners

Food torture? Liver, lima beans and okra for every meal?

heh. Don't forget sour milk.

288 LGoPs  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:52:03pm

Late to the thread but I will add my acknowledgement that the President is doing the right thing. I'm a strong critic when I disagree with him but will also state that he deserves kudos for making this correct, non-partisan decision. Actions that put America first, partisanship be damned, are to be lauded.

289 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:52:08pm

re: #287 midwestgak

heh. Don't forget sour milk.

And a plastic bag of rotting potatoes.

290 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:52:14pm

re: #247 unrealizedviewpoint

I apologize for this rant. I may have approached a line. I'm overly emotional today.

291 Kragarghazi  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:52:36pm

re: #277 Creeping Eruption

Helen Thomas in a thong rubbing baby oil on Donna Shallala while Janet Reno snaps pics.

Helen Thomas in a form fitting peek-a-boo latex body suit with a bullwhip asking if you've been a naughty boy with Cindy Sheehan and Rosie Odonnell curled up at her feet, waiting for their turn.

292 beens21  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:52:42pm

I never thought waterboarding was "torture",extremely uncomfortable ? yes.I read awhile back under some treaty that something can be torture if it requires the intervention of medical or psychological help to cure the victim.A 15 second dunk that scares the crap out of one is not torture.

293 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:52:46pm

re: #283 Last Mohican

The closest I've been to Ranger School is on my couch, about six feet away from the TV screen while a documentary was on.

Six feet?! It's a miracle you survived!

294 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:52:51pm

re: #272 Occasional Reader

Heh.

Did your ex do Ranger school? If so, did he talk about it? I knew a guy at a law firm where I used to work who did; he was about 6'3", burly build; said that he weighed 150 lbs. by the end of Ranger school. Sheesh.

I'm sure he did 'cause he was SF. I've also dated Rangers and two chopper pilots. Wait. What is it about me and men with A-type personalities?

295 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:53:19pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas in a form fitting peek-a-boo latex body suit with a bullwhip asking if you've been a naughty boy with Cindy Sheehan and Rosie Odonnell curled up at her feet, waiting for their turn.

EEEEWWWWWW!

296 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:53:42pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas in a form fitting peek-a-boo latex body suit with a bullwhip asking if you've been a naughty boy with Cindy Sheehan and Rosie Odonnell curled up at her feet, waiting for their turn.

[GASP} I may have to concede defeat.

297 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:53:43pm

re: #249 joncelli

The time has never been better for a non-cult-of-personality third party, but unfortunately it would have to get started NOW to be viable in 2010 and it would split the Republican vote.

The way to do it, IMO is to

(1) not identify it as a "party" but a coalition so that people can identify themselves with a movement without having to gain 3rd party kook status (because that has been the stigma)

(2) concentrate the effort in California and Texas that would give the opportunity to throw the electoral college by denying the major parties an electoral college win. That is the key - we have a 2 party system because of the electoral college.

(3) If you throw the electoral college on election night, you get to go to both campaigns and get the best deal for your electors. You demand cabinet seats and clear policy commitments. From that move you start recruiting congress members into your coalition so that you have leverage against the POTUS who you can't recall once he/she is sworn in.

That is what must happen to break the McDonalds/Burger king false choice we are given when asked to choose between a democrat and a republican.

298 Dianna  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:53:56pm

re: #294 MandyManners

I'm sure he did 'cause he was SF. I've also dated Rangers and two chopper pilots. Wait. What is it about me and men with A-type personalities?

Um.

They're fun until they take over?

299 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:54:15pm

Gotta' scoot. We're doing the park, then a restaurant and then The Kid's first pre-season ball game.

Have a glorious afternoon, Lizards!

300 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:54:29pm

re: #245 karmic_inquisitor

My point is that I continue to get mail, email and phone solicitations from Republican campaigns and PACs talking about how I need to urgently give them money to "scale back government".

Every one of them has ZERO credibility. Yet they are pandering to the tea parties.

So they are just as craven as Pelosi and Obama in how they pander to issues to get in office and then somehow lose track of those issues when in power.

I am just glad that the insanity platform they ran on seems less likely to come to fruition regarding terror/security. The economic policies will be devastating but I don't see how handing the keys to the same individuals in the Republican party who held the keys for 20 years is going to improve things.

The only one that has credibility in my mind is Gingrich but he was deposed in part because he was unreliable on pork. McCain was anti-pork but he won't get any leadership opportunities ever again.

Any member of Congress who shows up wearing a T-shirt with this graph printed on it - and then votes against the budget proposals that lead to it - will at least get my consideration for a donation. But not until then.

And I want to thank the poster who put the URL for that graphic up yesterday. Sorry I didn't note your handle, but I've been looking for it for a couple of weeks now - it originally appeared in Time, and is a huge showstopper on the bulletin board at work - but wasn't able to find it. It says in a single, striking instant what the future holds if fiscal sanity isn't restored post haste.

301 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:54:36pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas in a form fitting peek-a-boo latex body suit with a bullwhip asking if you've been a naughty boy with Cindy Sheehan and Rosie Odonnell curled up at her feet, waiting for their turn.

With spike heel thigh highs, right?

/just trying to get the mental pic just right ...

302 justabill  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:54:45pm

re: #82 ArchangelMichael

Which has jurisdiction over the US how?

Or did Obama sign us up for that abomination?

They might be claiming Universal Jurisdiction
like Belgium did a few years ago...

Its a load of crap, but that doesn't stop them from trying.

303 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:55:00pm
304 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:55:03pm

re: #298 Dianna

Um.

They're fun until they take over?

No one EVER takes me over.

bbl

305 avanti  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:55:03pm

As I've said before Obama is pragmatic when it comes to issues like this and the assault weapons ban, don't ask, don't tell for example. He'll weigh what the far left or he might like to do with the amount of political capital he has to risk. He knows he can afford to lose the far left because they have no where else to go to keep the middle.

306 Neutral President  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:55:31pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas in a form fitting peek-a-boo latex body suit with a bullwhip asking if you've been a naughty boy with Cindy Sheehan and Rosie Odonnell curled up at her feet, waiting for their turn.

Would you all please..... for the love of god and your own bodies.... hold the damn Shehag mental images....

307 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:55:38pm

re: #294 MandyManners

I'm sure he did 'cause he was SF. I've also dated Rangers and two chopper pilots. Wait. What is it about me and men with A-type personalities?

Blame GWTW.

308 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:55:41pm

re: #294 MandyManners

I'm sure he did 'cause he was SF. I've also dated Rangers and two chopper pilots. Wait. What is it about me and men with A-type personalities?

Time to break tha pattern. Here's your next boyfriend.

309 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:56:22pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas and her thong say differently.

I am speaking of the American Teenage Male. If getting called up in class to work out a problem on the blackboard (white boards now with those fancy dry-Erase markers), by a teacher every bit as intimidating as the 'Crone Of The Press Corps', does not make it go away, then nothing will.

310 razorbacker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:56:39pm

I'll bet the nicest thing about Ranger school is graduation day, when you get your mask, and six-shooter with the silver bullets, and that super-cool horsie.

And with that, "Hi-Yo Silver, and away!"

*I'll be so blessed glad to finally get all the storm debris cleaned up. Assuming that I ever do, that is.*

311 brookly red  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:56:48pm

re: #284 Iron Fist

sorry, I was only thinking of self defense...

312 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:56:53pm

re: #294 MandyManners

I'm sure he did 'cause he was SF.

Actually, military lizards may correct me if I'm wrong, but I think not all SF necessarily do Ranger school.

313 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:57:19pm

re: #277 Creeping Eruption

Helen Thomas in a thong rubbing baby oil on Donna Shallala while Janet Reno snaps pics.

Shouldn't Madeleine Albright be in there getting spanked?

314 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:57:44pm

re: #304 MandyManners

No one EVER takes me over.

bbl

No one EVER puts Mandy in a corner.

315 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:57:44pm

re: #292 beens21

That is the crux of the whole waterboarding debate. How do you define torture? The Bush admin defined torture such that waterboarding did not fir the definition. When they briefed congress on it in 2003, they accepted the definition and some even asked if they needed to use anything "stronger" than waterboarding. Later, when the issue became a political vote getter, some politicians who had previously approved of waterboarding suddenly changed their definition of torture to retro-actively accuse Bush of authorizing torture.

And then there are the leaders of foreign countries where the security services routinely practice extreme forms of torture on thousands of victims, who hypocritically condemn the US for using waterboarding.

316 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:58:11pm

re: #313 SixDegrees

Shouldn't Madeleine Albright be in there getting spanked?

Janet Reno.
I've steeled myself this far, and I can take anything you can dish out!

317 Athos  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:58:37pm

re: #239 avanti

More good news on the economy, consumers are starting to be more hopeful. If that keep up, they'll start buying again and we'll make more money.

consumer.

And how much of that $787B of stimulus money has hit the streets by this point?

318 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:58:42pm

re: #313 SixDegrees

Shouldn't Madeleine Albright be in there getting spanked?

AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH!

319 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:58:49pm

re: #305 avanti

As I've said before Obama is pragmatic when it comes to issues like this and the assault weapons ban, don't ask, don't tell for example. He'll weigh what the far left or he might like to do with the amount of political capital he has to risk. He knows he can afford to lose the far left because they have no where else to go to keep the middle.

Seriously avanti, his brain cannot think clearly enough for him to speak extemporaneously for a minute or two. You're telling me that you think he actually sits and ponders -- weighs -- serious issues? Did you see his law school exams?

320 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:58:49pm

re: #314 Creeping Eruption

Swayze quotes deserve double dings.

321 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:58:58pm

re: #313 SixDegrees

Shouldn't Madeleine Albright be in there getting spanked?

Hey - if that is your thing. The more the merrier. LOL.

322 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:59:08pm

re: #314 Creeping Eruption

No one EVER puts Mandy in a corner.

I'll be You Had The Time Of Your Life writing that post.

323 Macker  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:59:30pm

re: #316 jwb7605

Speak for yourself.

/snicker

324 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 12:59:45pm
325 Athos  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:00:02pm

re: #315 Kenneth

Excellent post, very well said.

326 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:00:06pm

re: #315 Kenneth

And then there are the leaders of foreign countries where the security services routinely practice extreme forms of torture on thousands of victims, who hypocritically condemn the US for using waterboarding.

I'm pretty sure some European nations do this; the French have never been particularly fastidious about their methods. It doesn't matter; they have State Secrets acts that make it nearly impossible to keep track of what they do.

327 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:00:52pm

re: #313 SixDegrees

Oh man, that's a big job!

328 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:01:02pm

re: #322 Occasional Reader

I'll bet You Had The Time Of Your Life writing that post.

I'm just Mr. Typo today.

329 jamgarr  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:01:30pm

re: #270 joncelli

Ooooh, give all jihadi prisoners an agonizer and give their interrogators a goatee. "Your agonizer, please, Mr. bin Laden..."

/Yes, I'm a nerd.


Make them live out their days in a pain amplifier.

330 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:01:47pm
331 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:01:59pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Helen Thomas in a form fitting peek-a-boo latex body suit with a bullwhip asking if you've been a naughty boy with Cindy Sheehan and Rosie Odonnell curled up at her feet, waiting for their turn.

You have been visiting the entirely wrong side of the internet. I suggest some Lady Sonia therapy. (Link to google search, actual link would have been deleted fairly quickly I'm certain)

332 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:02:02pm

Can't concentrate on work. It finally got around to being spring around here!

333 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:02:41pm

re: #324 Iron Fist

Better watch it. I've heard Reno wields a mean strap-on.

.

Made by Snap On?

334 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:02:42pm

re: #297 karmic_inquisitor

The way to do it, IMO is to

(1) not identify it as a "party" but a coalition so that people can identify themselves with a movement without having to gain 3rd party kook status (because that has been the stigma)

(2) concentrate the effort in California and Texas that would give the opportunity to throw the electoral college by denying the major parties an electoral college win. That is the key - we have a 2 party system because of the electoral college.

(3) If you throw the electoral college on election night, you get to go to both campaigns and get the best deal for your electors. You demand cabinet seats and clear policy commitments. From that move you start recruiting congress members into your coalition so that you have leverage against the POTUS who you can't recall once he/she is sworn in.

That is what must happen to break the McDonalds/Burger king false choice we are given when asked to choose between a democrat and a republican.

In my opinion, which is humble but has years of thought (and a little bit of action) behind it, a viable party cannot be built this way. It must be built from the bottom, ie: win city council and school board elections first, and work your way up. This of course would take way longer than two or four years, which is why I favor fixing or improving the Republican Party.

335 Emerald  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:02:49pm
This breaking news is going to drive the left completely crazy. (A short drive.)


To be fair, it's going to also drive the right's version of the LLL completely crazy, too. He is the devil incarnate to them, after all, and he's refusing to play his role. They're going to have to rework all their conspiracy theories to get around this. It takes time to come up with that type of insanity.

336 Ben Hur  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:03:36pm

House Democrat Leaders: Tea Partiers Are Racist, Nazi, Gun Nuts

But in an interview on Fox TV in San Francisco, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) chalked up the GOP grass-roots effort as “AstroTurf.”

“This initiative is funded by the high end; we call it AstroTurf, it's not really a grass-roots movement. It's AstroTurf by some of the wealthiest people in America to keep the focus on tax cuts for the rich instead of for the great middle class,” Pelosi said.

Other House Democratic leaders took a different tack: One senior aide has been circulating a document to the media that debunks the effort as one driven by corporate lobbyists and attended by neo-Nazis...

In addition, the tea parties are “not really all about average citizens,” the document continues, saying neo-Nazis, militias, secessionists and racists are attending them. The tea parties are also not peaceful, since reporters in Cincinnati had to seek “police protection” during one of the events, it states.

Almost verbatim.

337 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:03:54pm

re: #333 Creeping Eruption

Made by Snap On?

Only a true Craftsman like yourself could have come up with that.

338 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:04:03pm

OT, but Netanyanu has said what had to be said:
Netanyahu told Mitchell that the Palestinians would have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state as a precondition for talks on a two-state solution, a step they have refused to take so far.
Israel will now be blamed for killing the "peace process"

339 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:04:09pm

re: #330 Iron Fist

The French had no problem sinking the Rainbow Warrior. They could have been a bit more entertaining about it, but they passed on the oppertunity and just got the job done.

It would have been much better if Martin Blank had just taken the job.

340 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:04:15pm

re: #337 Occasional Reader

Only a true Craftsman like yourself could have come up with that.

Toro! Toro! Toro!

341 avanti  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:04:19pm

re: #319 pink freud

Seriously avanti, his brain cannot think clearly enough for him to speak extemporaneously for a minute or two. You're telling me that you think he actually sits and ponders -- weighs -- serious issues? Did you see his law school exams?

I probably think he's smarter then he is, you dumber, but that's typical. I never thought Bush was as dumb as the left thought either. IMHO, you don't graduate from Harvard with honors if you are not bright, nor make millions on book sales.
The way he ran his campaign at least shows some common sense if nothing else.

342 brookly red  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:04:34pm

re: #336 Ben Hur

House Democrat Leaders: Tea Partiers Are Racist, Nazi, Gun Nuts


Almost verbatim.

sniff, sniff... smells like fear.

343 Kragarghazi  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:04:52pm

re: #331 CyanSnowHawk

You have been visiting the entirely wrong side of the internet. I suggest some Lady Sonia therapy. (Link to google search, actual link would have been deleted fairly quickly I'm certain)

More of a Mika Tan fan actually

344 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:05:09pm
345 Neutral President  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:05:11pm

re: #336 Ben Hur

Which is exactly what I said Dems and the MFMSM would say about it, true or otherwise.

346 Russkilitlover  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:05:15pm
One senior aide has been circulating a document to the media that debunks the effort as one driven by corporate lobbyists and attended by neo-Nazis...

Killgore?

347 avanti  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:05:30pm

re: #336 Ben Hur

House Democrat Leaders: Tea Partiers Are Racist, Nazi, Gun Nuts

Almost verbatim.

Pelosi is a embarrassment to the Dems.

348 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:05:35pm

re: #338 Kosh's Shadow

Repeating the mantra of "2 state solution" will not make it happen any quicker when one of the two parties, the Palestinians, refuse to accept Israel's existence and would much rather see Israel destroyed.

349 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:05:59pm

re: #336 Ben Hur

"It's AstroTurf by some of the wealthiest people in America"

Who, Nancy? George Soros? Ted Turner? Bill Gates?

350 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:06:05pm

re: #322 Occasional Reader

Random fact about Lincolntf: The first time I saw this movie I was on a date with a short-term high school girlfriend. She was the granddaughter of Philip Showalter Hench, who should be familiar to all you medical/science types as the guy who came up with the idea of cortisone as a remedy for whatever it is cortisone remedies.

351 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:06:33pm

re: #337 Occasional Reader

Only a true Craftsman like yourself could have come up with that.

Pish-Bosch - anyone could have done so.

352 Athos  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:06:57pm

re: #338 Kosh's Shadow

OT, but Netanyanu has said what had to be said:
Netanyahu told Mitchell that the Palestinians would have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state as a precondition for talks on a two-state solution, a step they have refused to take so far.
Israel will now be blamed for killing the "peace process"

S Squared, D Squared.

We have to basically accept that even if the Israeli's surrendered and permitted themselves pushed into the Med, there are many who will still blame them for any and all ills in the region as opposed to calling it as it is.

353 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:06:57pm
354 mikalm  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:07:37pm

I have a feeling our Prez got told some very scary things in his initial security briefing, and is leaving his options open in the WOT. But whatever the reason, I applaud him for most of his security decisions so far.

355 pink freud  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:08:10pm

re: #341 avanti

I probably think he's smarter then he is, you dumber, but that's typical. I never thought Bush was as dumb as the left thought either. IMHO, you don't graduate from Harvard with honors if you are not bright, nor make millions on book sales.
The way he ran his campaign at least shows some common sense if nothing else.

There sure are a lot of holes in there. If "honors" at Harvard produced an "instructor" who crafted law exams such as the ones I've seen, I question his intellect and his education.

Book sales? Who really wrote those books, avanti? The same person who wrote those law exams? I highly doubt it.

Ran the campaign? 0bama? Again, no. I'd start with Soros and backfill from there ....but giving credit to 0bama for that campaign is too far a piece for me to cover.

356 Spider Mensch  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:08:28pm

re: #336 Ben Hur

House Democrat Leaders: Tea Partiers Are Racist, Nazi, Gun Nuts


Almost verbatim.

"I went to a tea party and all I got was this lousy white pillow case with 2 eyeholes cut out!"

/

357 turn  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:08:32pm

re: #350 Lincolntf

Random fact about Lincolntf: The first time I saw this movie I was on a date with a short-term high school girlfriend. She was the granddaughter of Philip Showalter Hench, who should be familiar to all you medical/science types as the guy who came up with the idea of cortisone as a remedy for whatever it is cortisone remedies.

Please don't tell us she kept the swelling down too ...
/

358 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:08:45pm

re: #344 Iron Fist

So what you are saying is that Nancy Pelosie's screen name is Kilgore Trout...

Well, in all honesty we should at least plead "guilty" on the gun nut part...

Reminds me; a friend who's kind of a recovering liberal, with little firearms experience, is asking me for a specific recommendation for his first gun, for home defense. Besides "get training", I'm thinking of recommending Remington 870 or Mossberg 590; with a tactical light, in either case. Any other thoughts?

359 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:09:22pm

re: #340 lawhawk

Toro! Toro! Toro!

Grabbing the bull by the horns will sometimes get you beHonda eight ball.

360 Wendya  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:09:42pm

So once again, the constitution rears up and bites Obama in the ass, pissing off legions of moonbats in the process.

Good.

361 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:09:54pm
362 n2stox  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:10:09pm

Under Obama, waterboarding isn't the important thing for libs to scream about. It's how one waterboards that matters.

See, it's all in the nuance.

that's how the left will spin it. At least the leftists whose heads don't blow up first.

Paging Keith Olbermann...paging Keith Olbermann...please pick up the white courtesy phone.

363 jamgarr  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:10:32pm

OT

Things I still want to know from the DT:

Why do southpaws face west?

Where have all the "Ho-made pie" signs gone?

364 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:10:41pm

re: #351 Creeping Eruption

Pish-Bosch - anyone could have done so.

Nonsense! Your post showed the spirit of free enterprise... not at all like those commie systems, like the one run by the late Makita Kruschev.

/okay, I'm reaching here

365 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:10:55pm
366 avanti  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:11:11pm

re: #353 Iron Fist

Not so much so that they will get rid of her. Or, for that matter, publicly disagree with her.

I can't explain voters that vote in idiots from either extremes. The difference is the idiots on the far right are mostly not their parties leaders.

367 Wendya  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:11:12pm

re: #336 Ben Hur

House Democrat Leaders: Tea Partiers Are Racist, Nazi, Gun Nuts

Almost verbatim.

When the congress attacks the citizens, they must be afraid.

And they should be.

368 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:11:16pm

re: #363 jamgarr

OT

Things I still want to know from the DT:

Why do southpaws face west?

Where have all the "Ho-made pie" signs gone?

Most importantly; Why does the porridge bird lay its egg in the air?

369 LGoPs  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:11:29pm

Another late comment and apologies if a version of this has already been posted. For the benefit of any libtards that might be reading this I would like to state that in their zeal to punish this past administration for doing their utmost to protect all of us - libtards included - they need to understand that the pendulum swings the other way as well.
If, heaven forbid, we do get hit again and it is in any way related to liberal weakness in dealing with the real world threats we face, then how about if we come after your ass next time and do really nasty things to you, legal and otherwise, for putting all of us at risk on the altar of your self-centered, narcissistic pieties.

370 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:11:31pm

re: #348 lawhawk

Repeating the mantra of "2 state solution" will not make it happen any quicker when one of the two parties, the Palestinians, refuse to accept Israel's existence and would much rather see Israel destroyed.

And that's why I'm glad Netanyahu is saying this. It is going to piss of the 0, though, but the way he's behaving, it's not going to make much difference.
Olmert should have walked out of Annapolis when the Palis refused to accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. Although Condi should have canceled the talks herself at that point.

371 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:12:08pm
372 Athos  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:12:09pm

re: #359 SasquatchOnSteroids

Grabbing the bull by the horns will sometimes get you beHonda eight ball.

Spend too much time beHonda eight ball, you might get a John Deere letter.

373 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:12:38pm

re: #362 n2stox

As long as they use recycled water and the board is made of at least 90% post-consumer waste, the Libs won't care about the "torture".
Priorities, people. We've got a fever.

374 gringo69  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:12:42pm

I wonder if cynthia mckinney's boat can pull my waterboard. I'm thinkin lake trip this weekend. All lizards are welcome!

375 midwestgak  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:12:52pm

re: #305 avanti

As I've said before Obama is pragmatic

Does the word pragmatic fit Obama?

Main Entry:prag·mat·ic
Pronunciation:prag-ˈma-tik
Variant(s):also prag·mat·i·cal -ti-kəl
Function:adjective
Etymology:Latin pragmaticus skilled in law or business, from Greek pragmatikos, from pragmat-, pragma deed, from prassein to do — more at practical
Date: 1616
1archaic a (1): busy (2): officious b: opinionated
2: relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters : practical as opposed to idealistic
3: relating to or being in accordance with philosophical pragmatism
— pragmatic noun
— prag·mat·i·cal·ly -ti-k(ə-)lē adverb

um,

376 equable  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:13:08pm

At least we know the teleprompter didn't say so.

All kidding aside, this is a primo case of "on the job training". Hopefully Mr. Obama will soon (very soon, as in twenty years ago) realize that the world is larger than the coccoon of his own quixotic ideals and those outside of the intelligence loop.

377 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:13:14pm

re: #372 Athos

Spend too much time beHonda eight ball, you might get a John Deere letter.

Who created this pun thread? Or did it eVolvon its own?

378 joncelli  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:13:15pm

re: #363 jamgarr

Where have all the "Ho-made pie" signs gone?

Stolen by frat boys.

379 debutaunt  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:13:34pm

re: #317 Athos

And how much of that $787B of stimulus money has hit the streets by this point?

I've seen Census workers walking down my small town street two times. I wonder how much I'm paying them for their one-year-in-advance wanderings.

380 Last Mohican  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:13:36pm

re: #293 Occasional Reader

Six feet?! It's a miracle you survived!

I'm not gonna lie to you and say it was easy for me. It wasn't. I had to get up several times and refresh my bowl of Doritos.

381 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:13:41pm

re: #363 jamgarr

OT

Things I still want to know from the DT:

Why do southpaws face west?

Where have all the "Ho-made pie" signs gone?


Why don't sheep shrink in the rain?

382 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:13:52pm

re: #372 Athos

Spend too much time beHonda eight ball, you might get a John Deere letter.

I received a John Deere letter one time for not taking proper care of the Snapper

383 avanti  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:14:26pm

re: #355 pink freud

There sure are a lot of holes in there. If "honors" at Harvard produced an "instructor" who crafted law exams such as the ones I've seen, I question his intellect and his education.

Book sales? Who really wrote those books, avanti? The same person who wrote those law exams? I highly doubt it.

Ran the campaign? 0bama? Again, no. I'd start with Soros and backfill from there ....but giving credit to 0bama for that campaign is too far a piece for me to cover.

I'm not getting into "bookgate" with you, I just think we'll never get a IQ test on any POTUS nor do I want one. I'll judge him by the job he does, not his brain power.

384 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:14:43pm

re: #364 Occasional Reader

Nonsense! Your post showed the spirit of free enterprise... not at all like those commie systems, like the one run by the late Makita Kruschev.

/okay, I'm reaching here

OR, it takes a lot of SKIL to do what you do.

385 jamgarr  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:14:44pm

re: #378 joncelli

Stolen by frat boys.


You may be onto something there.

386 albusteve  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:15:20pm

re: #358 Occasional Reader

Well, in all honesty we should at least plead "guilty" on the gun nut part...

Reminds me; a friend who's kind of a recovering liberal, with little firearms experience, is asking me for a specific recommendation for his first gun, for home defense. Besides "get training", I'm thinking of recommending Remington 870 or Mossberg 590; with a tactical light, in either case. Any other thoughts?

you stiff the Stoeger?...it's a good rugged gun for $330

387 equable  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:15:39pm

And I agree with the general sentiment: perhaps he got a head full of "oh merde" moments when those in the intelligence community started to begin his days with:

"Mr. President, here's what we have about so and so to get you up to speed as fast as we can."

Let's hope that it was enough to jar that blockage loose and finally down the loo.

388 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:16:05pm

re: #384 Creeping Eruption

OR, it takes a lot of SKIL to do what you do.

Pshaw. These old Sawz'all I got left in my pun repertoire.

389 turn  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:16:14pm

re: #372 Athos

Spend too much time beHonda eight ball, you might get a John Deere letter.

Yeah, and there are a Kuboda other reasons you might get the letter too.

390 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:16:16pm

re: #330 Iron Fist

I recall the French had a little bit of a "torture problem" in a place called Algeria.

391 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:16:38pm

re: #363 jamgarr

Where have all the "Ho-made pie" signs gone?

I know for a fact there is one at the turnoff to the east entrance to Zion National Park. Their sign proudly proclaims "Thunderbird Restaurant - Home of the Ho-made Pies!"

392 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:16:39pm

re: #386 albusteve

you stiff the Stoeger?...it's a good rugged gun for $330

I'm just not as familiar with the maker, I guess.

393 jamgarr  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:17:43pm

re: #391 SixDegrees

I know for a fact there is one at the turnoff to the east entrance to Zion National Park. Their sign proudly proclaims "Thunderbird Restaurant - Home of the Ho-made Pies!"

I think I'll pass.

394 LGoPs  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:17:57pm

re: #381 HoosierHoops

Why don't sheep shrink in the rain?

Whar are there some who are intolerant of those who lack toes......
Hmmmmmmm?

395 astronmr20  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:18:27pm

Late to the thread.

I wonder if the fact that Princess Pelosi ordered them to "push harder" back in 2002 when she witnessed water-boarding had anything to do with the decision.

396 Last Mohican  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:18:34pm

re: #336 Ben Hur

[Pelosi said] It's AstroTurf by some of the wealthiest people in America to keep the focus on tax cuts for the rich instead of for the great middle class,

Um, who are these wealthy astroturfers supposed to be? And was anyone at the tea party protests, arguing against tax cuts for the "great middle class"?

There are some valid reasons for challenging the tea parties, but Nancy Pelosi is absolutely 100% full of sh*t. In my book, she is currently less likable than a half-inch pus-oozing pimple on the tip of your nose on prom night.

397 albusteve  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:18:54pm

re: #392 Occasional Reader

I'm just not as familiar with the maker, I guess.

a Benelli spinoff...made in Turkey (bummer)...it's a tough gun

398 LGoPs  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:19:25pm

re: #390 Kenneth

I recall the French had a little bit of a "torture problem" in a place called Algeria.

I sometimes torture the English langwich.........
:)

399 Last Mohican  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:21:06pm

re: #383 avanti

I'm not getting into "bookgate" with you, I just think we'll never get a IQ test on any POTUS nor do I want one. I'll judge him by the job he does, not his brain power.

John McCain released all of his hundreds of pages of medical records, which included an IQ test. I believe his IQ was 133.

Obviously he has never been the POTUS, nor did he want to be.

[I couldn't let that go by without a little snarky comment]

400 doppelganglander  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:22:17pm

re: #347 avanti

Pelosi is a embarrassment to the Dems.

She is exactly what they want. They put her in leadership -- she wasn't imposed on them.

401 code red 21  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:22:47pm

That it was even suggested that the CIA officers should be prosecuted was a miscarriage of justice.

402 n2stox  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:23:20pm

re: #386 albusteve

you stiff the Stoeger?...it's a good rugged gun for $330

Benelli makes a great riot shotgun, too.

Or, you could consider the phazed plasma rifle with a 40-watt range.

403 n2stox  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:24:57pm

re: #358 Occasional Reader

Saiga 12 ga. is nice, too.

404 LGoPs  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:25:48pm

re: #401 code red 21

That it was even suggested that the CIA officers should be prosecuted was a miscarriage of justice.

That suggestion was a flashing neon sign into the soul of the left......
Bastards, every one of them.

405 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:25:57pm

re: #254 brookly red

/not even thinking of Nancy Pelosi?

I couldn't get it up for Nancy with seven Viagras and a Pos-Ti-Vac!

406 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:28:52pm

re: #278 SixDegrees

They're trying real hard to ignore Obama's charge toward the center, but it isn't going real well. A couple of NPR reporters have come close to actual criticism in recent days; others have found themselves in a quandary, trying to keep the praise flowing while attempting to choke back the vitriol they're so used to puking up on certain topics like a gag reflex.

It's a lot like the way the computer was acting in the final scene of that Star Trek episode where Kirk tricked it into a logical conundrum and it wound up shutting itself down, after a few minutes of increasingly frantic sputtering and emissions of blue smoke.

Heh.

It's not just the lefties; many conservatives are trying their best to ignore Obama's centering trend on national defence issues, too.

It ain't nearly enough to make up for his socializing of private enterprise, but it's something.

407 Athos  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:28:52pm

re: #395 astronmr20

Late to the thread.

I wonder if the fact that Princess Pelosi ordered them to "push harder" back in 2002 when she witnessed water-boarding had anything to do with the decision.

I wouldn't think so. She, and the others briefed, probably considered the political expediency at the time as to where to throw their support. At that time, given the fear of blowback if there was another major attack in / on the US, any appearances of being soft of terrorists would have had negative political implications.

Then with the weakness of the Bush Administration, the political pressure from the anti-war / hard left, it became politically expedient to denounce such firm actions - so Pelosi and much of the Dems adjusted accordingly.

Where Pelosi might have a brain freeze on at this point is if the politically expedient thing is to continue to support Obama in this decision or to cater to her SanFran base.

408 avanti  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:30:05pm

re: #399 Last Mohican

John McCain released all of his hundreds of pages of medical records, which included an IQ test. I believe his IQ was 133.

Obviously he has never been the POTUS, nor did he want to be.

[I couldn't let that go by without a little snarky comment]

Trust me, if he'd won, the left would accuse him of being dumb anyway. It's the nature of the beast to think the guy you didn't vote for is stupid.

409 LGoPs  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:33:31pm

re: #407 Athos

I wouldn't think so. She, and the others briefed, probably considered the political expediency at the time as to where to throw their support. At that time, given the fear of blowback if there was another major attack in / on the US, any appearances of being soft of terrorists would have had negative political implications.

Then with the weakness of the Bush Administration, the political pressure from the anti-war / hard left, it became politically expedient to denounce such firm actions - so Pelosi and much of the Dems adjusted accordingly.

Where Pelosi might have a brain freeze on at this point is if the politically expedient thing is to continue to support Obama in this decision or to cater to her SanFran base.

Your analysis is most likely correct and it underlines why I so truly despise Democrats. They proved long ago that Party comes before country. I don't see how people who think this way look themselves in the mirror.

410 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:34:22pm

re: #406 Salamantis

It's not just the lefties; many conservatives are trying their best to ignore Obama's centering trend on national defence issues, too.

It ain't nearly enough to make up for his socializing of private enterprise, but it's something.

I'd agree.

411 Athos  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:35:01pm

re: #408 avanti

Trust me, if he'd won, the left would accuse him of being dumb anyway. It's the nature of the beast to think the guy you didn't vote for is stupid.

No, its the nature of the left's habit of ad-hominem attacks modeled after a kindergarten sandbox. It's how they demean and attempt to marginalize the Republican or conservative candidate - while highlighting their own eliteness.

I don't see the middle or right resort to this approach with the same zeal and frequency as the left.

412 quickjustice  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:35:36pm

Maybe Obama agreed with the argument that prosecuting people who worked under the last Administration might some day be applied to his own Administration.

Remember-- Al Gore, Mr. Nobel Peace Prize himself, was the member of the Clinton Administration who advocated for "renditions" of suspected terrorists.

413 formercorpsman  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:37:09pm

re: #408 avanti

You are correct. I think there is a big difference between intellect, and one's ability for speaking publicly.

While I do not think such a skill determines any true ability of the POTUS, it certainly plays well to the audience.

I find it ironic, the European press is now bantering about the fact he is boring, needs a teleprompter, etc. Him being there is like walking hallowed ground.

One aspect that still bothers me, and I think it held true for both candidates, is not releasing their transcripts. The public should have full, and open access to this in making our judgment of who we pay to run our country.

Why we as a group of citizens allowed them to fore go this is beyond me.

414 albusteve  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:37:51pm

re: #412 quickjustice

Maybe Obama agreed with the argument that prosecuting people who worked under the last Administration might some day be applied to his own Administration.

Remember-- Al Gore, Mr. Nobel Peace Prize himself, was the member of the Clinton Administration who advocated for "renditions" of suspected terrorists.

it is a very bad idea and one would need to be demented not to see the bad shit wrapped around this issue....btw I missed the whole thread and aint goin back

415 LGoPs  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:39:38pm

re: #411 Athos

No, its the nature of the left's habit of ad-hominem attacks modeled after a kindergarten sandbox. It's how they demean and attempt to marginalize the Republican or conservative candidate - while highlighting their own eliteness.

I don't see the middle or right resort to this approach with the same zeal and frequency as the left.

re: #408 avanti

Trust me, if he'd won, the left would accuse him of being dumb anyway. It's the nature of the beast to think the guy you didn't vote for is stupid.

Agreed Athos. Think of the countless insluts to Reagan being just an actor and being fundamentally stupid. Bush I somwhat talked down about and Bush II completely over the top as far as remarks on his intelligence. By contrast look at the "Wonk' Clinton and constant references to his intelligence, let alone the 'smartest woman in the world' - his wife, Reset Lady. And of course we've only just begun to be regaled with tales of Obama's brilliance..........
Fuck liberals. They're all a bunch of pissant spoiled children.

416 Dustyvet  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:40:16pm

re: #382 SasquatchOnSteroids

I received a John Deere letter one time for not taking proper care of the Snapper

My snow blower got a John Deere letter...now it sits in the corner of the garage and weeps in complete Toro...

417 EricWRN  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:41:30pm

re: #5 Ward Cleaver

"Hello, Suicide Prevention Hotline..."

- "Hi, my name is Markos..."

+one million

418 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:44:59pm
419 Occasional Reader  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:54:24pm

re: #418 Iron Fist

Hey... thanks, in fact I just sent my friend an e-mail that pretty much anticipated all your recommendations... we are Vulcan mind-melded or something.

He seems reluctant about the shotgun, but more because he thinks handguns are more... I dunno, cool, or something. But he's a big enough guy to manage a 12 gauge fine, and I'm trying to convince him that it's a good choice if he just wants one gun for home defense.

I also recommended the tactical light. FYI, Tacstar makes a cheap ($85?) but decent light that can be mounted on pretty much any shotgun. Not as groovy as a Surefire, but gets the job done. (Our friend reaganite told me about them, back when.)

And of course I emphasized the need for training, and for childproofing both the gun AND the ammo (a lot of people forget the latter), since he has small kids.

420 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 1:56:45pm
421 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:01:51pm
422 pianobuff  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:20:07pm

Charles just was the subject of a Glenn Beck bit....

423 right_wing2  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:22:47pm

My God, I'm agreeing with the Obamessiah twice. In the same week! There's got to be something wrong with him, or with me.

424 n2stox  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:23:38pm

re: #419 Occasional Reader


Something to consider when looking for a home defense firearm:

Does he live in an apartment?

does he have kids?

how thick are the walls?

Shotguns are IDEAL in that shot does not go through a wall like a bullet can. the last thing your friend would want is to start blasting at an intrude, but also send lead through the roofs, floor, and walls.

Not good.

Also, being able to hit what you are shooting at is important. As you know, shooting a pistol in real life isn't like it is on TV. A slight flinch can put shots off inches, meaning the difference in a hit or a miss.

I'd rather take one good shot with a 12 or 20 gauge, then blast through a clip on my Sig. The killing range of a stray bullet through a window is much, much further than shot coming out of a shotgun.

If you friend is not a crack shot with a pistol, owning one for home defense is a bad idea, in my opinion.

425 danhenry1  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:26:02pm

I think I'm left, or maybe I am right,,,,love that eh?
Guy or girl on a board that has information that may just help in saving someone, and I pure (do not like the words poor and pure..never know where to put the stress) some water over their face (mind you there is a cloth on there to really prevent any possibility of drowning), ya think I wouldn't go to that length to get some needed info? You are crazy. I personally would go far beyond that.
I'm from the left or the right, whatever you label me.
I wouldn't lie however, if I didn't get the info I needed I would let that person (I really don't consider the terrorists we fight as being human), know; that he/she would not exist much longer.

426 Idle Drifter  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:29:00pm

This is the right decision by President Obama. Just my two cents. Does anyone here the sound of frying bacon?

427 BigAl  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:29:44pm

On another thread I came across a profound comment. Brief, but spoke volumes.

"It's easy to be a liberal flake when you are not responsible for anything".

It seems that Obama, et al. are learning that hard lesson.

428 justiceforall  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:30:00pm

“One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism...Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality.” -Unabomber's Manifesto

429 Idle Drifter  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:30:42pm

re: #426 Idle Drifter

here => hear pimf

430 EricWRN  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:32:38pm

re: #424 n2stox

Something to consider when looking for a home defense firearm:

Does he live in an apartment?

does he have kids?

how thick are the walls?

Shotguns are IDEAL in that shot does not go through a wall like a bullet can. the last thing your friend would want is to start blasting at an intrude, but also send lead through the roofs, floor, and walls.

Not good.

Also, being able to hit what you are shooting at is important. As you know, shooting a pistol in real life isn't like it is on TV. A slight flinch can put shots off inches, meaning the difference in a hit or a miss.

I'd rather take one good shot with a 12 or 20 gauge, then blast through a clip on my Sig. The killing range of a stray bullet through a window is much, much further than shot coming out of a shotgun.

If you friend is not a crack shot with a pistol, owning one for home defense is a bad idea, in my opinion.

My two cents:

I'll second this, especially if there's a family in the house or near-by neighbors even. For home defense you can't go wrong with a shotgun. 00 buckshot is ideal for stopping power and won't go through more than 1 wall at most. I even have low-penetration, self defence 00 buckshot made by Hornady stored with my remmington 12ga (although I've never fired it at a wall or a person so I don't know how low or high the penetration is). The tac-light is a must, not only for illuminating your target but if you get a SureFire it's blindingly-bright (also a bonus for home defense at night).

I also have a browning HP 9mm and I occasionally concealed carry a glock 19 (9mm) but I don't think I would use them for home defense for fear of a round traveling next door or into my unsuspecting roommate.

A shotgun is ideal in my opinion for high-stopping power, low-penetration, and extra-high intimidation.

431 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 2:39:22pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

Dow +115.33
Go, Baby, go!

Google surpassed expectations after the close; they're up about 6% in after-market trading. It'll be interesting to see how techs do tomorrow.

Citibank reports tomorrow. Banks have surpassed expectations pretty uniformly so far, and Citi has been noisy about how well they're doing, attempting to counter the malaise that has settled over the market. Citi has been one of the Banks Most Likely To Tank, so a good showing may lift more clouds from the market.

As long as they keep Geithner locked in whatever closet they've stuffed him in, could be another good day for the markets.

432 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:02:10pm

re: #60 Occasional Reader

Short, easy answer; they'll be split. The hard left will freak out, the more centrist liberals will not. Remember, International ANSWER already held a "stop the wars!" rally in DC, a few weeks ago; even now, in the Age of The One.

The hard left and the center are barely on speaking terms as is. And Obama does not, all jokes about the Messiah and the One aside, have that much credibility with the hard left to begin with.

Understand, the hard left despised Bill Clinton, and I suspect that two years from now they may hate Obama worse. The shit that's gonna happen on his watch is gonna happen. THey won't like how he deals with it.

433 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:03:09pm
434 callahan23  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:31:42pm

'splody heads in 3..2..1..*------

435 azul93gt  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:45:50pm

I find the idea that they even considered blanket prosecutions of security personnel for 'waterboarding' (water-boring) appalling. If they even tried to pull this crap they would have to implicate many people high in the Bush administration, and I think that even Obama & co can see that that could be problematic.

I guess all of that ranting and raving about torture was just so much B.S.

436 jayzee  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:53:00pm

The upside is that he won't prosecute. He should be commended for that. I do commend him for that. It was the right thing to do, because these men and women did the right (and legal) thing for America. I am concerned however with the release of the documents. Furthermore, I am concerned with the sentiments reflected in his statements concerning their release (for example):

We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history. But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past.

The Bush years were not dark and painful. Bush protected this country and its citizens. The move away from Bush's policies in regards to the WoT should be very troubling to Americans.

437 So What  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 3:58:18pm

Glad to hear that the CIC chose not to see that San Fran Nan and other loberals who sat in on security meetings where torture was discussed could not be held accountable either...

438 n2stox  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 4:00:02pm

re: #430 EricWRN

I use a Sig Sauer P232 for my cnc. Shotty for home protection.

as you mentioned:

intimidation factor: shotgun: 10

Safety: well, it's a gun so it's not built for that, but with the new frangible rounds out there, I know if I miss my bullets won't be sprayed over my neighborhood. give it a 9

accuracy: And, speaking of missing, I really don't see that happening, whereas with a pistol, who knows? - 10

Handguns are cool and all, but each weapon has its optimal use. I'll probably convert mine further by adding a pistol grip at some point. Of course, any would-be perp has to get through my 70lb German Shepherd before getting to me and my family, so my paranoia is probably a bit unfounded. A few barks from her and I put money on the perp deciding on another residence to break into.

That's just me.

439 countrygurl  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 4:35:38pm

re: #210 Oh no...Sand People!
hmmm.... there is something of a joke there but I won't find it....
HARD ... get it?

440 countrygurl  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 4:44:19pm

re: #349 Occasional Reader
349 Occasional Reader
re: #336 Ben Hur
"It's AstroTurf by some of the wealthiest people in America"
Who, Nancy? George Soros? Ted Turner? Bill Gates?

Yep, all the above. Good call.

441 tradewind  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 4:49:37pm

Maybe Obama had nightmares about those Somali pirates, and rethought.
Whatever it takes.... his epiphany is his epiphany re that, and let there be more.

442 blastforth  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 5:00:56pm

Assuming responsibility for the safety of the nation seems to change one's outlook.

443 EricWRN  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 5:03:18pm

re: #438 n2stox

I use a Sig Sauer P232 for my cnc. Shotty for home protection.

as you mentioned:

intimidation factor: shotgun: 10

Safety: well, it's a gun so it's not built for that, but with the new frangible rounds out there, I know if I miss my bullets won't be sprayed over my neighborhood. give it a 9

accuracy: And, speaking of missing, I really don't see that happening, whereas with a pistol, who knows? - 10

Handguns are cool and all, but each weapon has its optimal use. I'll probably convert mine further by adding a pistol grip at some point. Of course, any would-be perp has to get through my 70lb German Shepherd before getting to me and my family, so my paranoia is probably a bit unfounded. A few barks from her and I put money on the perp deciding on another residence to break into.

That's just me.

Mine is completely bubba'ed up with an M4 pistol grip/ collapsable stock (which I love), and a rail system on the hand gaurd/ pump with a tac-light and another pistol grip. I really wouldn't recommend the front pistol grip though, I find it makes it a little more awkward to handle and it's completely useless for skeet or target shooting. I find shotguns and rifles are generally safer to use because you get much more positive control on it.

Good point about the pistol rounds too - I've never used any but they do have plenty of "home defense" rounds. I've certainly never shot or shot at anyone but I honestly wouldn't trust those handgun shotshell thingies to stop someone. I guess hollow points don't quite travel through as many surfaces though. I've fired a lot of hand guns many times and feel very comfortable and safe with one but if my paranoia paid off and I actually had to defend my life or my family with it? Who knows. Like you said, accuracy: -10, and with a healthy dose of adrenaline and a moving (possibly armed) target with an equal dose of adrenaline... I've always considered it a last resort kind of thing to have.

Now a shotgun on the other hand? Practically full-proof!

444 USBeast  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 5:08:44pm

I have long held the theory that, once the oath of office has been taken, the new POTUS is led to a private room in the White House where the unelected folks who really run things let him know just where the bear went in the buckwheat and why he can't hang the rascals without cutting his own throat. I have yet to decide whether or not this is a good thing.

445 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 16, 2009 5:39:34pm

re: #444 USBeast

I have long held the theory that, once the oath of office has been taken, the new POTUS is led to a private room in the White House where the unelected folks who really run things let him know just where the bear went in the buckwheat and why he can't hang the rascals without cutting his own throat. I have yet to decide whether or not this is a good thing.

I've thought the same thing myself, for years.

446 Bradley F  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 7:53:06am

Nevertheless, the Obama/Holder disclosure has made us less safe.

By the way, the description of the "torture" techniques (e.g., sleep deprivation, being doused with cold water, stinging insects, etc.) reminded me of Boy Scout Camporee when I was 12 years old. Tough Jihadists, my arse.

447 S'latch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:54:09am

Even if Obama does not prosecute any CIA officers for waterboarding, it will not drive the left crazy at all.

It was never about waterboarding. It is, and always was, about socialism. Obama will deliver.

448 pjaicomo  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 4:49:29pm

So, what is the definition of torture?


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