FBI Extremist Probe and Veterans

US News • Views: 2,548

The revelation that the FBI’s investigation of white supremacists and militia groups included a focus on veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan has prompted another round of outrage from the right wing blogosphere and talk radio—who seem completely unwilling to admit there could be a point to the investigation, and instead are distorting the situation into an “investigation of all veterans.” Which it is not.

Disclosure of the DHS memo this week has sparked controversy among some conservatives and veterans groups. Appearing on television talk shows Thursday, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano defended the assessment, but apologized to veterans who saw it as an accusation.

“This is an assessment of things just to be wary of, not to infringe on constitutional rights, certainly not to malign our veterans,” she said on NBC’s Today Show.

The documents outlining Operation Vigilant Eagle cite a surge in activity by such groups. The memos say the FBI’s focus on veterans began as far back as December, during the final weeks of the Bush administration, when the bureau’s domestic counterterrorism division formed a special joint working group with the Defense Department.

A Feb. 23 draft memo from FBI domestic counterterrorism leaders, obtained by The Wall Street Journal, cited an “increase in recruitment, threatening communications and weapons procurement by white supremacy extremist and militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.”

The FBI said in the memo that its conclusion about a surge in such activities was based on confidential sources, undercover operations, reporting from other law-enforcement agencies and publicly available information. The memo said the main goal of the multipronged operation was to get a better handle on “the scope of this emerging threat.” The operation also seeks to identify gaps in intelligence efforts surrounding these groups and their leaders.

The aim of the FBI’s effort with the Defense Department, which was rolled into the Vigilant Eagle program, is to “share information regarding Iraqi and Afghanistan war veterans whose involvement in white supremacy and/or militia sovereign citizen extremist groups poses a domestic terrorism threat,” according to the Feb. 23 FBI memo.

Michael Ward, FBI deputy assistant director for counterterrorism, said in an interview Thursday that the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.

“We’re not doing an investigation into the military, we’re not looking at former military members,” he said. “It would have to be something they were concerned about, or someone they’re concerned is involved” with extremist groups. Mr. Ward said that the FBI’s general counsel reviewed the operation before it began, “to make sure any tripwires we set do not violate any civil liberties.”

If I honestly believed the FBI and DHS were focusing suspicion on all veterans, I’d be yelling about this louder than the demagogues are yelling now. But until I see some evidence that the focus is overly broad, I can’t join the chorus.

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1023 comments

1 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:58:22am

Once again … the voice of reason is heard … thanks Charles.

2 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:58:41am

are they looking at the known gang member veterans too?

3 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:59:15am

Basically, it’s nothing to get oneself worked up about. These groups should be watched just as the Islamist groups should be watched, and the leftist groups should be watched.

4 billhedrick  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:59:22am

Charles, you feel that the folks at Powerline and Hot Air are demagogues for fearing the implications of what has been said?

5 pat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:59:36am

Nevertheless, the report seems to be reflecting general suspicion without any substantiation other than sources and groups that ‘have’ to remain un-named.

6 Nevergiveup  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:59:43am

I have no problem with the FBI looking into stuff like this. As long as they are also looking into all those Muslim groups, like the one in upstate NY near Hancock.

7 DistantThunder  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:59:51am

However, by not clearly making this distinction in the summary, it resembles profiling of the political sort. The Obama administration could have initially make this distinction in the summary, but they failed to do so.

8 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:59:55am

re: #2 redc1c4

are they looking at the known gang member veterans too?

I hope so. It’s a big problem here in Chicagoland. The gangs send their members into the military for training.

9 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:00:07am

i ask because there’s been pictures posted over the years of various gang signs painted on captured tanks, etc, in Iraq.

10 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:00:20am
11 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:00:42am

Thanks.

All potential terror groups bear watching—irrespective of their political stripe.

12 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:00:57am

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.

13 acwgusa  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:01:01am

re: #10 buzzsawmonkey

At least we know that extremist groups will be thoroughly vetted. More thoroughly, dare I say it, than some Cabinet appointees.

Make sure they haven’t paid taxes.

14 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:01:08am
the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.

That seems valid to me.

15 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:01:14am

Of course the extremists (left and right) are looking for veterans.

But are we seeing evidence that veterans are succumbing? That’s what the FBI is looking at.

I’m with Charles on this - though I still don’t understand why that memo was even written. It had no substantial information.

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:01:44am

re: #6 Nevergiveup

I have no problem with the FBI looking into stuff like this. As long as they are also looking into all those Muslim groups, like the one in upstate NY near Hancock.

The FBI did look into that group, and the stories about it are completely bogus. They announced there was no evidence at all that it was a “terror training camp.” This bogus story is being promoted by the Christian Action Network, a whacked out offshoot of Jerry Falwell’s organization. It has no credibility at all.

17 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:01:56am

re: #7 DistantThunder

However, by not clearly making this distinction in the summary, it resembles profiling of the political sort. The Obama administration could have initially make this distinction in the summary, but they failed to do so.

One big thing I have noticed about this administration is that they are very sloppy.

/Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

18 ryannon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:02:33am

Luap Nor!

19 billhedrick  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:02:45am

I also think it’s telling that Napolitano is quick to use the word “terrorist” in referring to the radical right wingers she is afraid of, while DHS and State eschew the tag for people that are blowing up and beheading.

20 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:02:47am

re: #3 Honorary Yooper

Basically, it’s nothing to get oneself worked up about. These groups should be watched just as the Islamist groups should be watched, and the leftist groups should be watched.

extremists of all varieties get the “thumbs down” from me. that is why I prefer to remain politically independent, although i do swing more to the right. republicans are not all good and democrats are not all bad. and those who would divide us do society a great disservice.

21 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:02:54am

re: #12 lawhawk

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.

I saw this this morning, which says

Civil liberties officials at the Homeland Security Department did not agree with some of the language in a controversial report on right-wing extremists, but the agency issued the report anyway.
22 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:03:30am

While they are focusing on members joining white supremist groups, what is their position on members who join the Nation of Islam, which is also considered to be an extremist grouip by the DOD.

23 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:03:32am
24 pat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:03:56am

re: #12 lawhawk

That is the way I see it too. I think it backfired. She has a tin ear. I find it incredible she was elected as Governor. She is absolutely tone deaf because of the rousing affirmation from the MSM echo chamber.

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:04:31am

re: #4 billhedrick

Charles, you feel that the folks at Powerline and Hot Air are demagogues for fearing the implications of what has been said?

I didn’t say a word about Powerline and Hot Air. They disagree with my take, obviously, but the line about “demagogues” was not aimed at them. There are some real demagogues out there in the right-wing blogs though, who are ranting away about this report like lunatics.

26 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:04:32am

re: #19 billhedrick

the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.

But doesn’t that concern you at all? I don’t care what the underlying ideology is- extremism is dangerous.

27 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:04:52am

As a veteran, I found Janet Napolitano’s apology to be half-hearted and condescending.

28 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:05:41am

re: #12 lawhawk

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.


How can that be when the White House announced on Wednesday that President 0bama was unaware of any Tea Party protests?

29 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:06:20am

re: #12 lawhawk

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.

I still am not seeing the evidence that it was a political hit job. Lawyers always object to something — that’s what they get paid for. At some point, a decision has to be made whether to release a document like this or not. Just because there’s an objection to some language does not mean it was released for political reasons.

30 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:06:21am

You are right about this of course Charles.

I just can’t help feeling a little Schadenfreude since this administration is having some of the same sort of problems with message control that the Bush administration had.

31 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:06:22am

re: #28 soxfan4life

How can that be when the White House announced on Wednesday that President 0bama was unaware of any Tea Party protests?

Either they’re lying, he’s clueless, or both.

32 brookly red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:06:56am

re: #6 Nevergiveup

I have no problem with the FBI looking into stuff like this. As long as they are also looking into all those Muslim groups, like the one in upstate NY near Hancock.

I think one of their “residents” claimed to be a vet so perhaps they are.

33 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:07:01am
34 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:07:09am

Does the Marine Corps count as an extremist group?

35 billhedrick  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:07:31am
I didn’t say a word about Powerline and Hot Air. They disagree with my take, obviously, but the line about “demagogues” was not aimed at them. There are some real demagogues out there in the right-wing blogs though, who are ranting away about this report like lunatics.

I know you didn’t mention these sites specifically, but you have used a broad brush that tar some quite sane and concerned people.

36 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:08:07am

re: #31 J.D.

Either they’re lying, he’s clueless, or both.

My money is on both.

37 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:08:10am

re: #35 billhedrick

buh-bye…….

38 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:08:10am

re: #24 pat

That is the way I see it too. I think it backfired. She has a tin ear. I find it incredible she was elected as Governor. She is absolutely tone deaf because of the rousing affirmation from the MSM echo chamber.

* * * *
What exactly did Janet Napolitano do to enforce federal immigration laws in her state, America’s kidnapping capital and open borders frontier?

39 Proximate  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:08:20am

DHS ignored civil-liberties lawyers’ warnings on report

Defending this administration’s appointees is a losing game.

40 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:08:37am

re: #36 soxfan4life

My money is on both.

Same here.

41 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:08:48am

re: #39 Proximate

DHS ignored civil-liberties lawyers’ warnings on report

Defending this administration’s appointees is a losing game.

it’s part of his plan to reward all the lawyers…..

42 Racer X  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:08:55am

Everyone knows who the real threats are. No one wants to discuss it or take action because it may hurt feelings.

Radical followers of Islam
Black gang bangers
Hispanic gang bangers
Asian gang bangers
White gang bangers (aryan nation, etc.)
Meth tweekers
Crackheads

43 billhedrick  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:05am
the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.

But doesn’t that concern you at all? I don’t care what the underlying ideology is- extremism is dangerous.

ummm not sure how this relates to my post

44 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:08am

re: #8 Honorary Yooper

I hope so. It’s a big problem here in Chicagoland. The gangs send their members into the military for training.

They’d have to be members with a fairly clean background though, right?

45 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:08am

re: #34 ConservatismNow!

Does the Marine Corps count as an extremist group?

No, and I don’t think that’s what they are looking at. Go and re-read the stuff Charles has up top.

46 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:19am

As a member of DHS and a veteran, I have no problem with the FEDs scrutinizing veterans who may have leanings towards extremists groups (e.g. white supremacists etc.). When I went through the TS clearance process, every aspect of my life was exposed for the investigators to see. It didn’t bother me; it was a necessary evil for the job I perform on a daily basis. When I retire, I won’t just fade into black and disappear; I’ll be in the inactive reserve until roughly the age of 60 and should a national emergency arise, the US government could recall me. In other words, the government will know where I am for most of my life. The way I see it, I have nothing to hide and consequently don’t care if the government knows where I am as long as they don’t invade my personal space. Military service is awesome and I love my job, but I do lose some rights and I’m OK with that; it is a necessary evil.

47 pat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:20am

Very OT. I have been using Yahoo as my search engine for a month now. I am very satisfied.

48 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:21am

re: #36 soxfan4life

My money is on both.

i’d put my money there too, but it’s all going to taxes.

49 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:28am

re: #27 Son of the Black Dog

As a veteran, I found Janet Napolitano’s apology to be half-hearted and condescending.

That’s what I thought when I saw it. Her apology did not have the ring of truth imo.

50 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:30am

re: #22 soxfan4life

While they are focusing on members joining white supremist groups, what is their position on members who join the Nation of Islam, which is also considered to be an extremist grouip by the DOD.

* * * *
Silly, those definitions were under the Previous Administration.

51 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:33am

re: #17 Honorary Yooper

The trouble is, our former governor is well known for politicizing everything and basically being just another barely competent poll driven hack.

I don’t feel safer with her in charge. Ya never when a man is gonna cause a disaster.

52 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:39am

re: #38 alegrias

* * * *
What exactly did Janet Napolitano do to enforce federal immigration laws in her state, America’s kidnapping capital and open borders frontier?

Illegals coming in from Mexico aren’t the problem. Vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan are.
///////////////

53 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:44am

re: #36 soxfan4life

My money is on both.

Mine too.

54 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:44am

re: #44 Ward Cleaver

They’d have to be members with a fairly clean background though, right?

Yes, clean enough.

55 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:53am

Understandably, the DHS Report is not a directive, it IS, however, an insight of the priorities of the current administration. That is all.

-S-

56 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:09:59am

re: #42 Racer X

Everyone knows who the real threats are. No one wants to discuss it or take action because it may hurt feelings.

Radical followers of Islam
Black gang bangers
Hispanic gang bangers
Asian gang bangers
White gang bangers (aryan nation, etc.)
Meth tweekers
Crackheads


illegal aliens
Mexican drug cartels

57 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:10:08am

re: #35 billhedrick

I know you didn’t mention these sites specifically, but you have used a broad brush that tar some quite sane and concerned people.

Was there something unclear about what I just wrote in reply to your question? How is it a “broad brush” to point out that there are demagogues distorting the purpose of the report? Hot Air and Powerline are not engaging in demagoguery, but it’s really not difficult at all to find blogs that are.

58 Racer X  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:10:22am

re: #29 Charles

I still am not seeing the evidence that it was a political hit job. Lawyers always object to something — that’s what they get paid for. At some point, a decision has to be made whether to release a document like this or not. Just because there’s an objection to some language does not mean it was released for political reasons.

I question the timing.

59 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:10:23am

re: #45 Honorary Yooper

No, and I don’t think that’s what they are looking at. Go and re-read the stuff Charles has up top.

What I said was a joke

60 Diamond Bullet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:10:27am

I dunno — due to the sweeping language used in the DHS report, it does seem almost an inadvertent parody of Jeff Foxworthy.

“If you think abortion is a bad idea…you might be a terrorist.”
“If you are concerned about the recession…you might be a terrorist.”

I also don’t cotton to the idea that just because the initial inquiry started under Bush, there was no way it could have been warped in the 3 months it was also worked on under Obama (again - it even cites Obama’s election as one key trigger for us crazed ol’ terrorists). It is at best an extremely shoddy piece of work, with obviously negative connotations for anyone who subscribes to a number of basic conservative positions. Do I think stormtroopers are going to kick in my door? No. But the report is an amazingly telling window into the biases of our liberal overlords.

61 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:10:33am

re: #26 Sharmuta

the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.

But doesn’t that concern you at all? I don’t care what the underlying ideology is- extremism is dangerous.

And with the First AA President, what’s preemptively defensive looks offensive, I’d agree there.

But the timing of it, right before the Tea Parties…….

Stinks. Legitimate report, used as a tool. My 2 cents.

62 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:10:56am
63 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:11:11am

re: #51 Van Helsing

The trouble is, our former governor is well known for politicizing everything and basically being just another barely competent poll driven hack.

I don’t feel safer with her in charge. Ya never when a man is gonna cause a disaster.

Being a woman, she could clean that up.

/ducking!

/kidding!

64 dossier  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:11:15am

The DHS report said there was no evidence the “extremist groups” were engaged in criminal activity, or planning any crimes. Therefore, why should the FBI, or any other agency, focus suspicion on veterans who join these groups? These groups may be despicable, but they are legal, and since they are not engaged in either criminal activity or conspiracy, what is the probable cause to investigate them, or focus on them? Do we really want the government focusing suspicion on veterans just because they join unpopular, or even despicable groups?

65 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:11:26am

re: #43 billhedrick

Sorry- I just viewed your comment as deflection.

66 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:11:36am

re: #46 Jetpilot1101

As a member of DHS and a veteran, I have no problem with the FEDs scrutinizing veterans who may have leanings towards extremists groups (e.g. white supremacists etc.). When I went through the TS clearance process, every aspect of my life was exposed for the investigators to see. It didn’t bother me; it was a necessary evil for the job I perform on a daily basis. When I retire, I won’t just fade into black and disappear; I’ll be in the inactive reserve until roughly the age of 60 and should a national emergency arise, the US government could recall me. In other words, the government will know where I am for most of my life. The way I see it, I have nothing to hide and consequently don’t care if the government knows where I am as long as they don’t invade my personal space. Military service is awesome and I love my job, but I do lose some rights and I’m OK with that; it is a necessary evil.

Thanks for that. You do realize that sanity is out of style, though…

67 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:11:39am

re: #29 Charles

I still am not seeing the evidence that it was a political hit job. Lawyers always object to something — that’s what they get paid for. At some point, a decision has to be made whether to release a document like this or not. Just because there’s an objection to some language does not mean it was released for political reasons.

I’ve read it several times, now, so my puzzlement is increased.

There is nothing helpful or informative in the report. Not one specific threat is named, not one organization, either. There is no discussion of specific propaganda or recruitment methods, no guidance on what law enforcement should look for.

So, why was that report released at all? It’s much too general to be helpful.

68 E5infantry  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:12:17am

The underlying report cited 203.

But they were SELF-IDENTIFIED. I.e. The FBI never checked to ensure they were even veterans and not shitdicks just claiming it. Further, another part discuss “white supremacist groups” at Ft Lewis, only the underlying research again said no such thing, it was those who were potential gang members.

203 alleged veterans out of the 47 million over the span of 7 years. Frankly, I am more worried about mailmen.

No one in the military ever taught McVeigh to make bombs. He was a gunner on a Bradley, and no where does the skill set for Bradley gunners include making bombs.

69 Racer X  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #56 redc1c4

illegal aliens
Mexican drug cartels

Not all illegal aliens pose a threat (they are breaking the law).

Mexican drug cartels fall into the “hispanic gang banger” category.

70 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:12:33am

re: #59 ConservatismNow!

What I said was a joke

In this thread, with what’s gone on over the past few days, a /sarc tag would’ve been a good idea.

71 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:12:38am

re: #28 soxfan4life

How can that be when the White House announced on Wednesday that President 0bama was unaware of any Tea Party protests?

* * * *
That’s so rich, democrats used to routinely accuse President Reagan of pretending not to hear, see or aknowledge unflattering news or press questions he didn’t want to answer.

(And President Reagan was a gunshot survivor, wore hearing aids, glasses and was in his 70s).

72 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:12:43am

re: #12 lawhawk

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.

Agreed. It may not have been intended to attack veterans, but was meant to delegitimize gatherings of conservatives. Again, I find myself thinking: CBBHO.

73 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:12:52am

re: #34 ConservatismNow!

Does the Marine Corps count as an extremist group?

The good kind.

74 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:13:40am

re: #12 lawhawk

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.

You mean we should question the timing?

75 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:13:55am

Charles -

Waaaaaay OT, but, what are the three Grammy-winning albums you played on? Somebody was asking on the LNDT this morning.

76 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:12am

re: #71 alegrias

* * * *
That’s so rich, democrats used to routinely accuse President Reagan of pretending not to hear, see or aknowledge unflattering news or press questions he didn’t want to answer.

(And President Reagan was a gunshot survivor, wore hearing aids, glasses and was in his 70s).

And although he is no longer with us, still causes pain to liberals worldwide.

77 Racer X  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:21am
78 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:25am

re: #63 Ward Cleaver

Being a woman, she could clean that up.

/ducking!

/kidding!

Sigh…
I throw ‘em waist high over the plate…

79 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:33am

re: #52 soxfan4life

Illegals coming in from Mexico aren’t the problem. Vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan are.
///////////////

* * * *
Sanctuary for thee but not for Vets.

Healthcare ins. free for thee, but not for Vets.

Pentagon jobs for thee, but not for Vets.

80 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:33am

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. It may not have been intended to attack veterans, but was meant to delegitimize gatherings of conservatives. Again, I find myself thinking: CBBHO.

I cannot agree about this. A long-time LGF lizard who works for the DHS — who has proven to be very trustworthy over the course of years — has assured me that is not even remotely true.

81 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:39am

re: #66 Charles

Thanks for that. You do realize that sanity is out of style, though…

What makes you say that?

82 ryannon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:47am

re: #33 buzzsawmonkey

Marchel Duchamp, returned from the dead, has painted the official portrait of Janet Napolitano: “New Condescending Hysteria Case.”

Marcel Duchamp
en.wikipedia.org

83 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:14:56am

My problem is how the far right grabbed a few lines in the report, spun that, then spun yet again. Fox was even saying it’ll make it harder for returning vets to find jobs if they are suspected terrorist’s. Does anyone doubt that radicals from either side would love to try and recruit those with military experience ?.
The number I heard involved with the white supremacists was in the 100’s, a tiny percentage, but real.

84 NYCHardhat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:15:02am

Just as long as the CIA, FBI, and all the rest the TLA’s are working together and are not fractured prior to 9/11. Is that too much to ask?

85 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:15:24am

re: #78 Van Helsing

Sigh…
I throw ‘em waist high over the plate…

pearls before swine, as it were.

86 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:15:28am

One aspect of this that we should all consider is that the alienation that combat veterans feel when returning home has been amplified by the left’s rhetoric that got Obama elected and continues in the form of “rage” over our “torture methods”.

Combat veterans no longer feel that they belong to this society. It is right and proper for the FBI to be concerned with this - McVeigh was an alienated combat vet. It helps when clear voices also point out that the left has done a great deal to create a political culture that is intolerant of admiring combat veterans but would rather forget about them while trumping up rhetoric about war crimes and abusive tactics.

The men and women who fought in Iraq fought one of the most savage opponents in history and developed means of doing so that were comparatively non lethal. The “greatest generation” (which the left loves to celebrate) adopted tactics of fire bombing entire cities as a means of overcoming popular resistance.

I think much of the right’s frustration here is poorly articulated and mis-directed, and I think that much of that is being further exploited by the left in an effort to further alienate anyone who would contemplate or suggest use of force as a tool of American foreign policy.

And that leads to more alienation of combat vets thus making a small portion of that population more likely to join extremist causes.

The left would excuse such were it happening any where else (eg “jihad = minutemen”) but here they are exploiting it. We need clear voices.

87 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:15:49am

re: #2 redc1c4

are they looking at the known gang member veterans too?

The answer to your question is a very emphatic, yes.

88 Kragar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:15:50am

Speaking of extremist groups, the San Diego Lizard meet up is next weekend. Email me for details. I’ll be sending out email reminders to the lizards who emailed before this weekend. Looks like only a couple of us, so I’m not going to reserve a table or anything.

89 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:16:34am

re: #80 Charles

I cannot agree about this. A long-time LGF lizard who works for the DHS — who has proven to be very trustworthy over the course of years — has assured me that is not even remotely true.

the cops at the Van Nuys protest found the whole subject humorous….. if it was intended to drive a wedge it failed.

90 NonNativeTexan  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:16:34am

re: #8 Honorary Yooper

I hope so. It’s a big problem here in Chicagoland. The gangs send their members into the military for training.

Read a book “Hard Corps” written by a gang member who joined the marines. The marines straightened him out and kept him form a life in and out of prison. I believe it can go either way. One main draw of a gang is to “belong”, with the armed forces that desire to “belong” is satisfied in a positive manner.

91 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:16:44am
92 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:17:00am
93 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:17:12am

I use my facebook account to take a reading of what my large network of friends are thinking, 98% of whom are Democrats and Lefties. And from what I’m seeing they love this report, in part out of simple revenge. What I’m hearing from some people is basically, “now you rightwingers will get a taste of your own medicine”. You see in their minds George Bush and Dick Cheney (and all the rest) have spent the past 8 years vilifying the Left as un-patriotic, treasonist nutters, and now that they are in power it’s their turn for a little payback….And besides everyone with half a brain knows that rightwingers are all a bunch of racist crackers anyhow.

So regardless of why the report was written, it’s release is having a political effect.

94 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:17:19am

re: #29 Charles

I still am not seeing the evidence that it was a political hit job. Lawyers always object to something — that’s what they get paid for. At some point, a decision has to be made whether to release a document like this or not. Just because there’s an objection to some language does not mean it was released for political reasons.

Governments always churn out documents and the lawyers always object to things, but this is the kind of objection that usually gets heeded. That it didn’t should raise some eyebrows. What was Napolitano’s justification for overruling her lawyers’ objections? It wasn’t a particularly satisfactory response and goes to her own lack of judgment on the issue. Once you get to this level in government, the decision to publish these kinds of reports and their contents do become political.

It becomes a question of what can be gained by phrasing things in one form or another. Had this been a document produced by lower levels of DHS and released without an input from DHS Napolitano, I might be inclined to agree with you Charles. However, when the head of DHS gets involved in the process and pushes a view that is absolutely certain to raise flags, I’d say that’s highly suggestive of being a politicized decision.

95 Bradley F  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:17:25am

Yes, the DHS/FBI focus on people who oppose abortion, illegal immigration, the plundering of our economy and financial system by bankers, Wall Street and politicians, egregious taxation, etc., is certainly understandable… sarcasmoff

Defend the indefensible? What the Hell is going on here?

96 itellu3times  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:17:31am

I have no huge faith in the FBI in any case.

Bears watching, I guess, maybe it’s too early to seeth about it.

97 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:17:34am

re: #66 Charles

Thanks for that. You do realize that sanity is out of style, though…

I do and I’m seeing more and more insanity everyday. I think what some folks don’t realize is that military members do have certain skills that the vast majority of the general public do not posses. These skills are necessary for the jobs we perform. However, should someone decide to use them for nefarious purposes, they can be extremely dangerous. The vast majority of veterans are exceptional people with only a desire to serve their country. There are a few who do want to harm this country. Case in point: my unit had an avowed member of the KKK spreading literature around and overtly threatening a local businessman. He was also stockpiling weapons and explosives in his house on base, about a block away from my family. He’s in the brig but it was a bit of a scare. DHS isn’t targeting me or the majority of veterans but the aforementioned example is a good reason why some folks need to have an eye kept on them.

98 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:17:50am
99 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:18:00am

re: #46 Jetpilot1101

As a member of DHS and a veteran, I have no problem with the FEDs scrutinizing veterans who may have leanings towards extremists groups (e.g. white supremacists etc.). When I went through the TS clearance process, every aspect of my life was exposed for the investigators to see. It didn’t bother me; it was a necessary evil for the job I perform on a daily basis. When I retire, I won’t just fade into black and disappear; I’ll be in the inactive reserve until roughly the age of 60 and should a national emergency arise, the US government could recall me. In other words, the government will know where I am for most of my life. The way I see it, I have nothing to hide and consequently don’t care if the government knows where I am as long as they don’t invade my personal space. Military service is awesome and I love my job, but I do lose some rights and I’m OK with that; it is a necessary evil.

Wow, thanks for your (continued) service.

100 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:19:23am

re: #80 Charles

I cannot agree about this. A long-time LGF lizard who works for the DHS — who has proven to be very trustworthy over the course of years — has assured me that is not even remotely true.

I will take your word for it, sir.

101 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:19:50am

re: #99 Ward Cleaver

Wow, thanks for your (continued) service.

You are welcome, I’m happy to serve and really love my job!

102 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:20:04am

re: #98 buzzsawmonkey

Thunder Dunderhead-dome! Two pundits enter; no pundit leaves.

FTFY!

103 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:20:10am

re: #79 alegrias

* * * *
Sanctuary for thee but not for Vets.

Healthcare ins. free for thee, but not for Vets.

Pentagon jobs for thee, but not for Vets.

“Lions & tigers & vets, oh my”

104 Diamond Bullet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:20:12am

Slightly OT, but it might also be worth noting that ‘round about this same time DHS and Napolitano were scrutinizing illegal aliens - in order to give them work permits.

cnn.com

But Rosalinda Guillen said people in the pro-immigrant rights community were heartened by the fact that shortly after Napolitano ordered a review of the Bellingham case the immigrant workers who were still in immigration detention were released.

“I was just flabbergasted,” Guillen said. And the same immigration agents who had arrested the workers, she said, now promised them visas that would allow them to work temporarily in the U.S.

“Homeland Security drove them to the place where they had to go to fill out the paperwork for the work permits,” she said “That is totally unheard of.

Apparently she personally intervened in order to ensure those rounded up were given amnesty. I have to say I wonder if she’d do the same for any veterans who might have come under scrutiny under this anti-terrorist policy.

105 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:20:12am

re: #90 NonNativeTexan

Read a book “Hard Corps” written by a gang member who joined the marines. The marines straightened him out and kept him form a life in and out of prison. I believe it can go either way. One main draw of a gang is to “belong”, with the armed forces that desire to “belong” is satisfied in a positive manner.

My senior drill instructor was one of those former gang bangers.

106 itellu3times  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:20:28am

re: #66 Charles

Thanks for that. You do realize that sanity is out of style, though…

Quite. “These are crazy times” is my new mantra.

But y’know the gonzo slogan:
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

107 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:20:59am

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of extremist groups, the San Diego Lizard meet up is next weekend. Email me for details. I’ll be sending out email reminders to the lizards who emailed before this weekend. Looks like only a couple of us, so I’m not going to reserve a table or anything.

I’m looking forward to it.

108 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:21:14am

re: #98 buzzsawmonkey

Thunderdome! Two pundits enter; no pundit leaves.

As long as it is also soundproof.

109 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:21:14am

re: #106 itellu3times

Quite. “These are crazy times” is my new mantra.

But y’know the gonzo slogan:
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

maybe we should all start drinking heavily…….

110 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:21:22am

re: #95 Bradley F

Has it occurred to you at all that making excuses for extremists groups might be defending the indefensible?

111 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:21:42am

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of extremist groups, the San Diego Lizard meet up is next weekend. Email me for details. I’ll be sending out email reminders to the lizards who emailed before this weekend. Looks like only a couple of us, so I’m not going to reserve a table or anything.

I’m out of town next weekend :(

112 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:22:12am

re: #106 itellu3times

Quite. “These are crazy times” is my new mantra.

But y’know the gonzo slogan:
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

I just hope they don’t turn into RAHs’ crazy times.

As an aside, has the document dealing with the leftist threats been leaked yet?
Not sarcasm, I heard there was one.

113 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:22:27am

Two things not to worry about though—if you’re a TAX CHEAT like Tim Geithner, and claim to be clueless, you won’t be disqualified for high office or other well- paying federal jobs in this administration.

And if you fantasized about hurting administration officials of the PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION only, you too can get a top job in the Pentagon, military vets! Rosa Brooks can vouch for you, she’s cool with that line of thought.

114 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:22:34am
115 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:23:30am

re: #90 NonNativeTexan

Read a book “Hard Corps” written by a gang member who joined the marines. The marines straightened him out and kept him form a life in and out of prison. I believe it can go either way. One main draw of a gang is to “belong”, with the armed forces that desire to “belong” is satisfied in a positive manner.

I can’t think that the gangs are keeping metrics on this, but how many people that the gangs send into the military use it as a way to escape the gangs?

116 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:23:33am

re: #109 redc1c4

maybe we should all start drinking heavily…….

Start? Try continue. Though I have not drank heavily in over 2 years.

117 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:24:01am

re: #30 CyanSnowHawk

Except Bush did not have the MSM as its enablers/cover

118 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:24:26am

re: #114 taxfreekiller

Don’t give Cronkite a pass. I just saw his brilliant, clueless commentary on the Tet offensive.

Bastard. Rat Commie Bastard.

119 wahabicorridor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:24:35am

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/17/smearing-veterans/

I’ve read both DHS reports and they are equally pathetic for different reasons. But read this editorial from the Washington Times that has real numbers and see what you think.

120 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:24:51am

re: #116 ConservatismNow!

Where does one buy a bottle of “heavily”? I’ll go get one now. Until then, I’ll stick to my Speyburn.

121 neverquit  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:24:57am
If I honestly believed the FBI and DHS were focusing suspicion on all veterans, I’d be yelling about this louder than the demagogues are yelling now. But until I see some evidence that the focus is overly broad, I can’t join the chorus.

IMHO - - I understand Charles, and I am not speaking for him, but he is being very specific here. There is no evidence of any extraordinary focus, nor of any current extraordinary investigations.

However, in all fairness to our Military, the members of our Armed Services are no more or less inclined to extreme behaviors than any other American. PERIOD.

Until I see supporting evidence, other than McVeigh, that indicates a reason to be more suspicious of our Soldiers, I find the report utterly useless for any practical purposes. I suspect that the folks who leaked it share my mindset.

AGAIN, IMHO.

122 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:25:16am

re: #116 ConservatismNow!

Start? Try continue. Though I have not drank heavily in over 2 years.

no worries: i’ve been picking up your slack. %-)

123 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:25:29am

re: #97 Jetpilot1101

It also seems that people seem to forget exactly what happens when a vet does for whatever reason use his or her skills for nefarious purposes. It is few and far between, but on the rare occasions it happens we get Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Whitman, Timothy McVeigh, the John Allen Williams…

It’s not painting all vets as potential terrorists if you put the ones that join the KKK, militia groups, or Nation of Islam for example under some scrutiny.

124 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:25:30am

re: #97 Jetpilot1101

I do and I’m seeing more and more insanity everyday. I think what some folks don’t realize is that military members do have certain skills that the vast majority of the general public do not posses. These skills are necessary for the jobs we perform. However, should someone decide to use them for nefarious purposes, they can be extremely dangerous. The vast majority of veterans are exceptional people with only a desire to serve their country. There are a few who do want to harm this country. Case in point: my unit had an avowed member of the KKK spreading literature around and overtly threatening a local businessman. He was also stockpiling weapons and explosives in his house on base, about a block away from my family. He’s in the brig but it was a bit of a scare. DHS isn’t targeting me or the majority of veterans but the aforementioned example is a good reason why some folks need to have an eye kept on them.

I was in the Army Corps of Engineers and know my way around explosives, including making them from scratch.

About 5 years ago I was interviewed several times by the FBI regarding something unrelated to terrorism. After one of the interviews and an agent walked me to my truck. I had it filled with fertilizer bags and had some jerry cans full of diesel.

The agent was stunned and just stared at me. I looked at him and realized the faux pas - I had an Avocado orchard and had picked up the fertilizer on the way to the interview.

Well - the interview continued in the parking lot for another 1/2 hour after the agent called his partner to come out and take a look.

A bizarre event in my life but understandable - they knew my full military history prior to my first interview.

125 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:25:43am

re: #101 Jetpilot1101

You are welcome, I’m happy to serve and really love my job!

Think you fly into Indy some day and give me a lift? I wanna go really really fast in a jet..wwweeeeeeeee!
/Thanks for your service sir.

126 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:25:47am

re: #119 wahabicorridor

Link doesn’t work.

127 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:27:07am

Since ‘billhedrick’ posted a dramatic goodbye message in the ‘We Got Mail’ thread, but continued to post comments in this one, his account is blocked before the inevitable meltdown.

128 tompaineftw  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:27:25am
the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.

And we learned Tuesday that ‘other extremist groups’ includes everyone the libs don’t like. Creepy

129 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:27:27am

re: #125 HoosierHoops

Think you fly into Indy some day and give me a lift? I wanna go really really fast in a jet..wwweeeeeeeee!
/Thanks for your service sir.

check with the Collings Foundation, and see when they’re coming to your area…. you can get a ride in an Me-262.

130 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:27:28am

As I said yesterday on another thread, the reason my Jewish friends and relatives give when I ask why they won’t at least consider voting Republican is their perception that the “right wing crazies” and “religious extremists” are the base of the Republican party. While I do my best to counter these perceptions, it really is up to the national Republican party to distance itself from extremists if they hope to make inroads in the Jewish community. It is a tough enough job as it is because so many Jews (and Blacks) almost seem to have the need to vote Democratic in their DNA. But there are plenty of moderately conservative Jews and Blacks that need to be recruited by the Republicans. And making it clear that extremists do not define the Republican party would be a nice start.

131 Gus  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:27:48am

re: #94 lawhawk

Governments always churn out documents and the lawyers always object to things, but this is the kind of objection that usually gets heeded. That it didn’t should raise some eyebrows. What was Napolitano’s justification for overruling her lawyers’ objections? It wasn’t a particularly satisfactory response and goes to her own lack of judgment on the issue. Once you get to this level in government, the decision to publish these kinds of reports and their contents do become political.

It becomes a question of what can be gained by phrasing things in one form or another. Had this been a document produced by lower levels of DHS and released without an input from DHS Napolitano, I might be inclined to agree with you Charles. However, when the head of DHS gets involved in the process and pushes a view that is absolutely certain to raise flags, I’d say that’s highly suggestive of being a politicized decision.

Ever since Napolitano arrived at DHS she has been hell bent on redefining the department. This is not limited to her take on ICE raids and redefining terrorism to “man caused disasters. We must also keep in mind that this is only the beginning of a long road to 2012.

While this report may have been overblown in some circles there is no doubt in mind that it has been politicized. It is the nature of the beast and it begins with Obama, Axelrod and Emanuel. Napolitano is simply following her nature as a political opportunist.

I look forward to the day that Janet Napolitano is simply an entry in the history books.

132 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:28:22am
133 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:28:23am

re: #127 Charles

Since ‘billhedrick’ posted a dramatic goodbye message in the ‘We Got Mail’ thread, but continued to post comments in this one, his account is blocked before the inevitable meltdown.

so i *was* prescient up thread with the “buh-bye”……..

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:28:24am

re: #128 tompaineftw

And we learned Tuesday that ‘other extremist groups’ includes everyone the libs don’t like. Creepy

Don’t be ridiculous. It does not.

135 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:28:49am

re: #118 Van Helsing

Don’t give Cronkite a pass. I just saw his brilliant, clueless commentary on the Tet offensive.

Bastard. Rat Commie Bastard.

Cronkite’s skewered assessment of Tet as a U.S defeat was very demoralizing & greatly influenced LBJ.
In fact one Marine Battalion routing numerically superior forces at Hue was a tremendous U.S victory, but Cronkite did not want it viewed that way.

136 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:28:55am

re: #130 _RememberTonyC

But don’t they object to the extremists in the Democratic party?

137 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:29:00am

re: #119 wahabicorridor

* * * *
Hola, W. Corridor~

Thanks for reading both reports.

Isn’t it great Spain dropped its ridiculous legal demands against former US administration officials?

However, I am not happy Spain’s 5 GITMO combatants may be housed here in Alexandria, VA’s jail…

138 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:29:03am

re: #124 karmic_inquisitor

I was in the Army Corps of Engineers and know my way around explosives, including making them from scratch.

About 5 years ago I was interviewed several times by the FBI regarding something unrelated to terrorism. After one of the interviews and an agent walked me to my truck. I had it filled with fertilizer bags and had some jerry cans full of diesel.

The agent was stunned and just stared at me. I looked at him and realized the faux pas - I had an Avocado orchard and had picked up the fertilizer on the way to the interview.

Well - the interview continued in the parking lot for another 1/2 hour after the agent called his partner to come out and take a look.

A bizarre event in my life but understandable - they knew my full military history prior to my first interview.

whoopsie!

139 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:29:06am

re: #124 karmic_inquisitor

I was in the Army Corps of Engineers and know my way around explosives, including making them from scratch.

About 5 years ago I was interviewed several times by the FBI regarding something unrelated to terrorism. After one of the interviews and an agent walked me to my truck. I had it filled with fertilizer bags and had some jerry cans full of diesel.

The agent was stunned and just stared at me. I looked at him and realized the faux pas - I had an Avocado orchard and had picked up the fertilizer on the way to the interview.

Well - the interview continued in the parking lot for another 1/2 hour after the agent called his partner to come out and take a look.

A bizarre event in my life but understandable - they knew my full military history prior to my first interview.

I hope the avo’s were good that season. :)

140 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:29:37am

I take offense to the use of the wording. Once your out of the military you are a civilian even though your a military vet. Why would they not say groups are targeting ex office workers, or pipe fitters. I believe they want to create fear in the populace over the possibility of trained killers being recruited. LOL being a vet myself I was trained to repair aviation hydraulic systems….some killer huh.

141 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:29:42am

re: #127 Charles

Since ‘billhedrick’ posted a dramatic goodbye message in the ‘We Got Mail’ thread, but continued to post comments in this one, his account is blocked before the inevitable meltdown.

Our first meltdown of the day. Anyone care to bet how many more of them there are.

142 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:30:32am

re: #136 J.D.

But don’t they object to the extremists in the Democratic party?


as i said, old (voting) habits die hard. i have made that very argument to the ones who will listen and it is an uphill battle for sure.

143 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:30:46am

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Our first meltdown of the day. Anyone care to bet how many more of them there are.

over/under 6..pick em folks..
/I’ll take the Vig.. :)

144 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:31:14am

re: #121 neverquit

Well said. Salute!

145 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:31:36am

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Our first meltdown of the day. Anyone care to bet how many more of them there are.

no, but i’ll bet that if i don’t move away from the PC and get some chores done, there will be a “meltdown” when Household 6 gets home from w*rk.

hasta y’all…. BBL!

146 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:31:36am
147 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:31:40am

We should turn this issue on the left by asking a simple question -

“What are you doing to create a political culture that values these returning combat vets instead of alienating them?”

Imply that they may be creating tomorrow’s terrorists.

The left is expert at telling the right how we “created” terror in the Middle East by alienating people.

Aren’t they doing the same?

148 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:31:40am

re: #130 _RememberTonyC

As I said yesterday on another thread, the reason my Jewish friends and relatives give when I ask why they won’t at least consider voting Republican is their perception that the “right wing crazies” and “religious extremists” are the base of the Republican party. While I do my best to counter these perceptions, it really is up to the national Republican party to distance itself from extremists if they hope to make inroads in the Jewish community. It is a tough enough job as it is because so many Jews (and Blacks) almost seem to have the need to vote Democratic in their DNA. But there are plenty of moderately conservative Jews and Blacks that need to be recruited by the Republicans. And making it clear that extremists do not define the Republican party would be a nice start.

Unfortunately, what we’re seeing with this report is that far too many right-wing blogs and Republicans are taking it as an attack on them, when it’s targeted only at extremists — and the report makes that very, very clear.

By losing it over this report, they’re only cementing that impression that the GOP is the party of extremists — instead of agreeing that some of these groups DO need to be watched, people are making the unfortunate choice to self-identify with them. It’s sad.

149 rhino2  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:05am

Demanding evidence….how close-minded of you Charles!

150 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:07am

re: #127 Charles

Since ‘billhedrick’ posted a dramatic goodbye message in the ‘We Got Mail’ thread, but continued to post comments in this one, his account is blocked before the inevitable meltdown.

Serves Stinky right for being lenient on a dramatic goodbye.
//

151 auldtrafford  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:08am

re: #121 neverquit

* * *

However, in all fairness to our Military, the members of our Armed Services are no more or less inclined to extreme behaviors than any other American. PERIOD.

* * *

Well, in my opinion they are less inclined. They volunteered to defend the country, and they did it professionally (with very few exceptions). To say they are all subject to a closer look because they possess the skills of a warrior, is IMHO, a mistake. And if you read the report, there is no real distinction between “all veterans” and the dangerous few that is useful.

Oh yes, lip service (i.e., deniability) is paid to the “difference”, but there is not the type of identification that there was with previous reports on leftist radicals. IMHO. (Yes, I read it.)

152 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:33am

re: #121 neverquit

IMHO - - I understand Charles, and I am not speaking for him, but he is being very specific here. There is no evidence of any extraordinary focus, nor of any current extraordinary investigations.

However, in all fairness to our Military, the members of our Armed Services are no more or less inclined to extreme behaviors than any other American. PERIOD.

Until I see supporting evidence, other than McVeigh, that indicates a reason to be more suspicious of our Soldiers, I find the report utterly useless for any practical purposes. I suspect that the folks who leaked it share my mindset.

AGAIN, IMHO.


True, but as Jetpilot1101 pointed out in #97, it’s not the inclination, it’s the skill set.

153 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:36am

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Our first meltdown of the day. Anyone care to bet how many more of them there are.

Not until we know if there is going to be a Glenn Beck thread.

154 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:41am

Would it be better if the DHS just issued a report like they get in the UK of- be on the look out for people doing stuff?

155 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:46am

So what exactly is the point of releasing this report?

What good does it do?

How much harm does it cause?

156 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:32:59am

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Our first meltdown of the day. Anyone care to bet how many more of them there are.

Given what I seen around the ‘net today, I’d be willing to bet we have a lot of meltdowns today and this weekend.

157 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:34:39am

re: #124 karmic_inquisitor

We often have 40 tons of urea on our premises along with a couple thousand gallons of diesel. I guess we are both security risks especially if your a vet such as myself. LOL

158 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:34:41am

re: #155 J.D.

So what exactly is the point of releasing this report?

What good does it do?

How much harm does it cause?

The purpose of releasing the report TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES was to give them background information on the extremist groups, and a heads-up about possible areas that might bear watching. It was not intended for release to the general public.

No matter how many times this is pointed out, people just don’t want to hear it.

159 jaunte  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:35:11am

re: #154 Sharmuta

Would it be better if the DHS just issued a report like they get in the UK of- be on the look out for people doing stuff?

That’s what this one made me think of; when I first read it I thought it was a fake because it was so vague.

160 AmeriDan  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:35:17am

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Our first meltdown of the day. Anyone care to bet how many more of them there are.

I’ll go five Lizards bucks for twelve meltdowns. Hey, it’s Friday. The day they try to slip stuff through the news cycle when people aren’t reading/watching.

161 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:35:21am

re: #135 opnion

Cronkite’s skewered assessment of Tet as a U.S defeat was very demoralizing & greatly influenced LBJ.
In fact one Marine Battalion routing numerically superior forces at Hue was a tremendous U.S victory, but Cronkite did not want it viewed that way.

The VC were destroyed. Their hope for a ‘popular’ uprising was crushed.
The ARVN repelled a huge NVA attack in 73 with US air support and congress *spit* just turned their backs on them in 75. Which led to (IMAO) the our being a joke for the next decade.

Encouraged the Iranians, encouraged the Russians, Central and South American commies…

I worked with a man that was Colonel in the ARVN. Barely got his family out. He was not a happy camper but he STILL would give full support to the US. Without question.

162 Gus  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:35:25am

re: #155 J.D.

So what exactly is the point of releasing this report?

What good does it do?

How much harm does it cause?

The harm it can cause is that the report is essentially a trap. If one criticizes the report they are seen as supporting extremism. Regardless of the nuances of the report that can be argued.

163 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:35:29am

re: #156 Honorary Yooper

Given what I seen around the ‘net today, I’d be willing to bet we have a lot of meltdowns today and this weekend.

Well I won’t see most of them. I’m gaming at CODCON over at College of DuPage today and tomorrow. Once I leave to head over there, I probably won’t be back here until Saturday night.

164 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:35:33am

re: #157 Scorch

We often have 40 tons of urea on our premises along with a couple thousand gallons of diesel. I guess we are both security risks especially if your a vet such as myself. LOL

You’ve got a pretty big Urea Heap there.

165 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:36:26am

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Our first meltdown of the day. Anyone care to bet how many more of them there are.

I’m not going to bet; just observe that some people think it is torture if LGF has threads they aren’t interested in or disagree with. Maybe this goes with the previous thread better, though.

166 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:36:33am

What’s GollumRahm doing now that we’re focused on this?
That guy needs a Lojack.

167 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:37:51am

re: #158 Charles

The purpose of releasing the report TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES was to give them background information on the extremist groups, and a heads-up about possible areas that might bear watching. It was not intended for release to the general public.

No matter how many times this is pointed out, people just don’t want to hear it.

But, conveniently, it did.

168 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:38:14am

re: #118 Van Helsing

You forgot to add “clueless”.

In truth, the government and the military really did not know how to handle the medium of TV in that day (and they do now?) What had been told to the American people for months was that the war was being won and the end was near. Tet belied that story.

The same thing happened in 1944 in the Ardennes. Only then there was no TV. I hazard to guess that if there had been TV in those days—with the same sort of open coverage which existed in Vietnam, there would have been a similar reaction.

169 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:38:15am

re: #109 redc1c4

maybe we should all start drinking heavily…….

I’m too depressed to drink heavily.

170 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:38:45am

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

Well I won’t see most of them. I’m gaming at CODCON over at College of DuPage today and tomorrow. Once I leave to head over there, I probably won’t be back here until Saturday night.

Have fun. You might get to see the results of the meltdowns.

171 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:38:55am

re: #12 lawhawk

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.

I will throw in my intended comment upon Charles’ closing statement as an appropriate tag onto yours.

If I honestly believed the FBI and DHS were focusing suspicion on all veterans, I’d be yelling about this louder than the demagogues are yelling now. But until I see some evidence that the focus is overly broad, I can’t join the chorus.

BOTH of you are correct.

There are two distinct issues here: (1) the purpose of the investigation itself; and (2) the possible, or likely, motives behind the peculiar timing of its release.

Based upon evidence I have at this moment, I will join Charles in giving the report a pass. (That doesn’t mean I might not change my stance down the road, if the sum of evidence changes.)

Based upon what I consider well-founded suspicions, I too see a political motivation behind its release.

The latter is NOT meant to cast a negative light upon the report itself.

172 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:17am

re: #158 Charles

The purpose of releasing the report TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES was to give them background information on the extremist groups, and a heads-up about possible areas that might bear watching. It was not intended for release to the general public.

No matter how many times this is pointed out, people just don’t want to hear it.

But, Charles, forgive me, but I’ve read it, and how it would help law enforcement is completely obscure. It’s useless.

173 LionofDixon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:29am

William Ayers, Bernadine Dorn, Unabomber, Mohammed Atta, Pat Tillman.
One of these things is not like the others. (Hint; it has nothing to do with being a Muslim)

The DHS report was nothing more than political profiling proffered by a paranoid president and his pathetic peons.

174 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:29am

re: #158 Charles

Will the DHS or FBI investigate who leaked it to the General Public or will they just let it rest and hope the person who leaked it will sin no more now that their agenda was served?

175 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:35am
176 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:42am

re: #129 redc1c4

check with the Collings Foundation, and see when they’re coming to your area…. you can get a ride in an Me-262.

WHAT? There’s one still flying? I seem to recall seeing photos of that cockpit—and it was really small. Must have chopped a lot to put a backseat in there.

177 Gearhead  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:45am

re: #148 Charles

Unfortunately, what we’re seeing with this report is that far too many right-wing blogs and Republicans are taking it as an attack on them, when it’s targeted only at extremists — and the report makes that very, very clear.

By losing it over this report, they’re only cementing that impression that the GOP is the party of extremists — instead of agreeing that some of these groups DO need to be watched, people are making the unfortunate choice to self-identify with them. It’s sad.

That’s about the smartest thing I’ve heard anyone say all week. And the MSM seem to be eager to help with the cementing, if CNN is any indicator.

178 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:56am

re: #148 Charles

Unfortunately, what we’re seeing with this report is that far too many right-wing blogs and Republicans are taking it as an attack on them, when it’s targeted only at extremists — and the report makes that very, very clear.

By losing it over this report, they’re only cementing that impression that the GOP is the party of extremists — instead of agreeing that some of these groups DO need to be watched, people are making the unfortunate choice to self-identify with them. It’s sad.

Precisely, Charles.

179 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:57am
180 realwest  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:58am

re: #86 karmic_inquisitor
Karmac - While I can agree with a lot of what you say, the fact is that Vietnam Veterans (combat and support) returned home to a lot less than “pleasant welcome” (especially those who returned home from 1970 onwards) and to a recession. Yet the Combat Vietnam Veterans who also faced extraordinarily restrictive orders about the killing of “civilians” (who were as difficult to determine in Vietnam as in Iraq), remained loyal to America and are, each and every one I’ve ever met (and that’s well over 500) absolutely patriotic to a man. We love our country and I believe that the Iraq War and Afghan War Vets will be the same: Loyal and Patriotic Americans.
And while I agree that those veterans who are affiliated in any way with extremist organizations ought to be viewed with caution, I think the timing of the release of that report was, as even the AP notes, “rushed”.

And I simply do not believe that the overwhelming majority - 99+% of America’s Veterans - combat or otherwise - are anything but Loyal and Patriotic Americans. Period.

181 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:39:58am

re: #148 Charles

AJ Strata’s most recent post illustrates that clearly. And with the law of unintended consequences too. By lumping themselves with the far right extremists that the report indicates, people like Malkin loses moral standing to criticize the far left and their ties to Ayers.

182 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:40:25am

re: #161 Van Helsing

The VC were destroyed. Their hope for a ‘popular’ uprising was crushed.
The ARVN repelled a huge NVA attack in 73 with US air support and congress *spit* just turned their backs on them in 75. Which led to (IMAO) the our being a joke for the next decade.

Encouraged the Iranians, encouraged the Russians, Central and South American commies…

I worked with a man that was Colonel in the ARVN. Barely got his family out. He was not a happy camper but he STILL would give full support to the US. Without question.

In his memoirs, NVA Commander, General Giap wrote that after their defeat in TET, North Vietnam was prepared to sue for peace.
He claimed that the U.S Media dissuaded them with their negative accounts.

183 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:40:27am

re: #175 nt250

Bye, and don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

184 AmeriDan  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:40:55am

re: #175 nt250

That’s two so far.

185 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:41:10am

re: #176 calcajun

WHAT? There’s one still flying? I seem to recall seeing photos of that cockpit—and it was really small. Must have chopped a lot to put a backseat in there.

I think, but dont quote me on it, that its a reproduction.

186 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:41:14am

re: #158 Charles

Do you think it’s harmful… that it was “leaked”?

187 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:41:27am

re: #174 soxfan4life

Will the DHS or FBI investigate who leaked it to the General Public or will they just let it rest and hope the person who leaked it will sin no more now that their agenda was served?

He’ll get promoted to the next G level.

188 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:41:40am

re: #179 Iron Fist

Well said.

189 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:41:49am

re: #169 Dianna

I’m too depressed to drink heavily.

* * * *
That’s extreme.

Pleas to contact your government if you feel depressed, they have a website remember.

190 Gus  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:42:21am

re: #173 LionofDixon

William Ayers, Bernadine Dorn, Unabomber, Mohammed Atta, Pat Tillman.
One of these things is not like the others. (Hint; it has nothing to do with being a Muslim)

The DHS report was nothing more than political profiling proffered by a paranoid president and his pathetic peons.

You can almost smell the irony.

A president that is friends with William Ayers and Bernadine Dorn.

191 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:42:24am

re: #8 Honorary Yooper

I hope so. It’s a big problem here in Chicagoland. The gangs send their members into the military for training.

I’d never thought of gangs as being right wing.

192 Opinionated  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:43:08am

Without giving a damn about anyone who joins supremacist groups, legally is joining such groups sufficient reason for probable cause.

The Government is assuming a possible unlawful act of conspiracy from the mere fact of joining certain organizations.

That may or may not be legitimate depending, I guess, on the record of that organization and evidenced acts in further of an actual conspiracy.

193 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:43:22am

#175: Bye now! Sorry, you don’t get to leave your dramatic farewell comment.

194 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:43:38am

re: #164 CyanSnowHawk

It’s in tenders so we can load spreaders. :)

195 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:43:45am

re: #154 Sharmuta

Would it be better if the DHS just issued a report like they get in the UK of- be on the look out for people doing stuff?

Specific things? Yes.

196 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:43:48am

Registered since March 2007, with 6 comments.

197 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:44:08am

re: #161 Van Helsing

I know a Vietnamese American citizen who, along with his siblings, was sent here by his parents, who could not themselves come. He couldn’t go back for his father’s funeral.
These people truly appreciate and take advantage of the opportunities here.

198 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:44:29am

re: #185 ArchangelMichael

Still, it’s cool to think that one is still serviceable.

I live near Miramar (everyone in San Diego between I-8 and Hwy 56 lives near Miramar) and love seeing the Blue Angels every year. But, what causes a lump in my throat is hearing that dull rumble of piston engines, looking up, and seeing either a B-24 or B-17 flying over, like some prehistoric bird.

199 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:44:34am

re: #179 Iron Fist

Well- Jetpilot also said he made threats.

200 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:45:03am

April 16, 2009

The Honorable Janet Napolitano
Secretary
The Department of Homeland Security
310 7th street, S.W.
Washington, DC 20528-0150

VIA FASCMILLE

Dear Secretary Napolitano,

We write today concerning the release of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) report titled “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment” prepared by the Extremism and Radicalization Branch, of the Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division.

While we agree that we must fight extremists who are both foreign and domestic we are troubled by some of the statements your department included as fact in the report titled above, without listing any statistical data to back up such claims.

First, your report states that “Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists…” without listing any data to support such a vile claim against our nation’s veterans.

Second, the report states that the millions of Americans who believe in the Second Amendment are a potential threat to our national security. Why? Do you have statistics to prove that law-abiding Americans who purchase a legal product are being recruited by so-called hate groups?

Thirdly, the report states that those that believe in issues such as pro-life legislation, limited government, and legal versus illegal immigration are potential terrorist threats. We can assure you that these beliefs are held by citizens of all races, party affiliation, male and female, and should not be listed as a factor in determining potential terror threats. A better word usage would be to describe them as practicing their First Amendment rights.

Also, you list those that bemoan the decline of U.S. stature and the loss of U.S. manufacturing capability to China and India as being potential rightwing extremists. We would suggest that the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs in the manufacturing industry to foreign countries are not potential terror threats, but rather honest Americans worried about feeding their families and earning a paycheck.

In closing, we support the mission of DHS in protecting our country from terror attacks and are proud of the many DHS employees who make this possible in conjunction with our state and local law enforcement. We ask that DHS not use this report as a basis to unfairly target millions of Americans because of their beliefs and the rights afforded to them in the Constitution. We also ask that you provide us with the data that support the unfair claims listed in the report titled above and to present us with the matrix system used in collecting and analyzing this data?

Finally, we look forward to your prompt reply and we offer our assistance to DHS in our shared effort to fight terrorism both home and abroad by using data that is accurate and independent of political persuasion.

201 Bob Dillon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:45:10am

re: #28 soxfan4life

How can that be when the White House announced on Wednesday that President 0bama was unaware of any Tea Party protests?

If he was unaware … that is troubling. He is either being spoon fed information by those around him or is really out of touch with reality. Either is not good.

202 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:45:37am

Stinky is a sniper.

/heh

203 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:45:45am

re: #196 Charles

Registered since March 2007, with 6 comments.

A sleeper. I think it was a sockpuppet for someone.

204 AmeriDan  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:17am

re: #196 Charles

Registered since March 2007, with 6 comments.

A person RS troll of few words.

That’s a good thing.

205 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:24am
206 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:35am

re: #198 calcajun

Still, it’s cool to think that one is still serviceable.

I live near Miramar (everyone in San Diego between I-8 and Hwy 56 lives near Miramar) and love seeing the Blue Angels every year. But, what causes a lump in my throat is hearing that dull rumble of piston engines, looking up, and seeing either a B-24 or B-17 flying over, like some prehistoric bird.

I got to fly in a B-17 a couple of years ago. It was completely and totally awesome. There is a group called Wings Over America (I think) that tours with these vintage planes. I could not afford the flight the first time they were in town (Orange County, CA airport), but I saved up for their next visit. We were in the air for about 25 mins - just take off, circle back, land. But it was so worth the $$$.

207 neverquit  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:38am

re: #152 wrenchwench

True, but as Jetpilot1101 pointed out in #97, it’s not the inclination, it’s the skill set.

McVeigh was not a rocket scientist, and neither was that Abortion bombing Yo-Yo that was on the lamb for years.

208 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:38am

re: #196 Charles

Registered since March 2007, with 6 comments.

Slacker, I’ve been here since then and have more than a thousand times number.

/Have I removed all doubt about my foolishness yet?

209 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:42am

re: #189 alegrias

* * * *
That’s extreme.

Pleas to contact your government if you feel depressed, they have a website remember.

They’re why I’m depressed.

Well, not the only one, but I’m not a happy woman, just now.

210 tompaineftw  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:43am

What the purpose of all this thread’s rationalizing on the gov’t’s behalf? This is the second time in three days that they stuck there foot in it. Lets their own PR dept handle it.

211 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:46:58am

For those of you who have not yet done so, you probably ought to compare the rightwing vs leftwing reports:

foxnews.com

foxnews.com

There is a pretty significant difference between the two.

212 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:01am
213 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:08am

re: #114 taxfreekiller

Of some note:

Myself and all,, ALL the Viet Nam vets have been lied about by the no good f’n msm and liberal Democrats now for 40 years…

And yet you and your colleagues remain patriotic and even encourage your chidlren and grandchildren to serve the cause of liberty.

I cannot express how much gratitude and respect you deserve to have for that.

214 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:17am

OT: Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama

Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-La.) suggested Thursday that former Vice President Dick Cheney should tone down his criticism of President Barack Obama.

Asked to respond to Cheney’s remark during an interview ABC’s “Good Morning America,” Jindal said: “I don’t think we should question President Obama’s patriotism or his intentions.”

215 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:33am

re: #162 Gus 802

The harm it can cause is that the report is essentially a trap. If one criticizes the report they are seen as supporting extremism. Regardless of the nuances of the report that can be argued.

So some people may feel they have to distance themselves by not questioning it.

That’s a problem.

216 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:33am

re: #203 Honorary Yooper

A sleeper. I think it was a sockpuppet for someone.

(Tying right shoelace back up)

What ?

217 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:37am

re: #197 J.D.

I know a Vietnamese American citizen who, along with his siblings, was sent here by his parents, who could not themselves come. He couldn’t go back for his father’s funeral.
These people truly appreciate and take advantage of the opportunities here.

This Thai restaurant near my wife’s work is owned by a lady who emigrated to the US back in the 70s when it looked like all of Southeast Asia would fall to Communism. She had not been back to Thailand to see her family until last year.

218 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:45am

re: #167 Russkilitlover

But, conveniently, it did.

I’d bet a beer that it was leaked by someone on the right in a attempt to embarrass DHS. Could be as simple as a local sheriff releasing it. There is no upside to the administration to leak the report.

219 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:47:48am

OT
Murderous former Marine Cesar Laurean is headed back to the US from Mexico where he was hiding after killing & burning a fellow Marine who was pregnant (presumably with his baby).

Thank you, Pres. Calderon for extraditing a rogue murderer back to the US for justice & our death penalty, where appicable.

220 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:04am

re: #182 opnion

In his memoirs, NVA Commander, General Giap wrote that after their defeat in TET, North Vietnam was prepared to sue for peace.
He claimed that the U.S Media dissuaded them with their negative accounts.

Makes it real easy to understand TFKs love and respect for John F’ing Kerry when you see his picture along with with hanoi Jane and domestic terrorists protesters in the Vietnam War Museum.

221 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:29am

re: #198 calcajun

Still, it’s cool to think that one is still serviceable.

I live near Miramar (everyone in San Diego between I-8 and Hwy 56 lives near Miramar) and love seeing the Blue Angels every year. But, what causes a lump in my throat is hearing that dull rumble of piston engines, looking up, and seeing either a B-24 or B-17 flying over, like some prehistoric bird.

Yep I’d love to see a B-29 there sometime but I don’t know if any of them are still airworthy. I think they were a pain in the ass to maintain when they were new.

According to wiki (take with salt accordingly) all the surviving real Me262s are in museums.

222 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:34am

re: #201 Bobibutu

If he was unaware … that is troubling. He is either being spoon fed information by those around him or is really out of touch with reality. Either is not good.

He’s being spoon-fed the information they want him to know. National security information is public, protests against “The 0ne” are classified.

223 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:36am

re: #206 Russkilitlover

Never been up, but was in one when they turned the engines over. I cannot imagine being in something that rattled/vibrated that much for 10- 16 hours straight.

224 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:38am
“…the portion of the operation focusing on the military related only to veterans who draw the attention of Defense Department officials for joining white-supremacist or other extremist groups.”

They admit that they are “focusing” their investigations PEOPLE who join extremist groups, if those PEOPLE happen to be veterans. As I understand it, they justify this profiling of veterans on the basis that veterans can do a lot more damage than non-veterans based on their military training and keeping in mind that McVeigh was a veteran.

Question: Will they equally profile vets who join left-wing extremist groups as vets who join right-wing extremist groups?

Question: What SCIENTIFIC evidence is there that vets who join extremist groups are any more dangerous than non-vets? Or Muslims? Or purple people eaters?

Isn’t is possible that veterans who join extremist groups are LESS dangerous than other extremists?

Shouldn’t the focus be on all members of extremist groups, with added scrutiny of those who are IN FACT more likely to commit terrorist acts?

225 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:41am

re: #212 buzzsawmonkey

I’m sure the other five were cogent and well reasoned.

/////////

Here’s one.

226 Gus  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:43am

re: #215 J.D.

So some people may feel they have to distance themselves by not questioning it.

That’s a problem.

I know. A conspiracy theorist might say that was the intent.

227 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:56am

re: #196 Charles

Registered since March 2007, with 6 comments.


What’s the record for a meltdown..Has anyone ever melted with their first comment?
/ For you folks keeping track..that’s 2 meltdowns..

228 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:48:57am

re: #207 neverquit

He was on the lam, not the lamb.

Hysterical mental image, though.

229 Buck  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:49:14am

re: #46 Jetpilot1101

Thank you for your service.

230 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:49:27am

re: #174 soxfan4life

Will the DHS or FBI investigate who leaked it to the General Public or will they just let it rest and hope the person who leaked it will sin no more now that their agenda was served?

Now lemme think….

231 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:49:37am

DHS Report on Leftists Not Like Napolitano Report on Right-Wing Extremism

The Napolitano report, first and foremost, includes “no specific information that domestic rightwing terrorists are currently planning acts of violence” but is written in contemplation by the Department of Homeland Security that “The economic downturn and the election of the first African American president present unique drivers for rightwing radicalization.” It is, in a word, supposition.

The earlier report, Leftwing Extremists Likely to Increase Use of Cyber Attacks over the Coming Decade, “focuses on the more prominent leftwing groups within the animal rights, environmental, and anarchist extremist movements that promote or have conducted criminal or terrorist activities.”

And it cites specific examples, something the Napolitano report, with the exception of references to the Oklahoma City bombing (which is cast as a reason to be concerned about returning veterans), fails to do in anything resembling the same level of detail. The earlier report on left-wing extremism cites cyber attacks as being “attractive options to leftwing extremists who view attacks on economic targets as aligning with their nonviolent, “no harm” doctrine and tactic of “direction action.”

232 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:49:44am

re: #225 Charles

Here’s one.

Lovely. A VBer.

233 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:49:46am

re: #180 realwest

Karmac - While I can agree with a lot of what you say, the fact is that Vietnam Veterans (combat and support) returned home to a lot less than “pleasant welcome” (especially those who returned home from 1970 onwards) and to a recession. Yet the Combat Vietnam Veterans who also faced extraordinarily restrictive orders about the killing of “civilians” (who were as difficult to determine in Vietnam as in Iraq), remained loyal to America and are, each and every one I’ve ever met (and that’s well over 500) absolutely patriotic to a man. We love our country and I believe that the Iraq War and Afghan War Vets will be the same: Loyal and Patriotic Americans.
And while I agree that those veterans who are affiliated in any way with extremist organizations ought to be viewed with caution, I think the timing of the release of that report was, as even the AP notes, “rushed”.

And I simply do not believe that the overwhelming majority - 99+% of America’s Veterans - combat or otherwise - are anything but Loyal and Patriotic Americans. Period.

Agree on all points.

I may be getting old and showing some sort of “old guy” bias, but I think our society had men being much more stoic back then. I think guys saw “sucking it up” as an obligation of manhood and a source of inner strength.

So much for dime store psychology, but I do think our society now lacks stoicism. We are now obsessed with “how we are seen in the world” rather than what we are actually doing to improve it.

The men and women in the military did a great deal to improve the lives of millions in Afghanistan and Iraq. To our “hope and change” political culture, that doesn’t mean sh*t because all that matters is whether we are “admired” or not.

Both western history and culture have shown that the most admired are those who went against popular notions and did what had to be done, only being recognized afterward by a thankful society. That means courage and fortitude - two things that a feminisation of culture has pinned down as being phalocentric and oppressive.

So there we are - my dimestore psychology coupled with my dimestore sociology.

234 Sabnen  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:49:48am

I’ve read the DHS report again, and I still don’t see the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) mentioned in it.

235 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:49:56am

re: #181 lawhawk

AJ Strata’s most recent post illustrates that clearly. And with the law of unintended consequences too. By lumping themselves with the far right extremists that the report indicates, people like Malkin loses moral standing to criticize the far left and their ties to Ayers.

The problem is, the report does not define any far right extremist groups. It speaks of how people who are upset with encroachment on their constitutionally protected rights, people who wish to see a return to the rule of law and those who have served in the military are ripe pickings for “extremist groups”. If you can’t understand why many of us find that offensive beyond belief, I can’t help you.

236 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:50:24am
237 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:50:25am

re: #212 buzzsawmonkey

I’m sure the other five were cogent and well reasoned.

/////////

OT, but related — might a pun-thread on Stinky’s wing-shot skills be appropriate? I’ve never been a hunter, so I’m skeetish about starting it.

238 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:50:26am
239 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:50:37am

re: #227 HoosierHoops

What’s the record for a meltdown..Has anyone ever melted with their first comment?
/ For you folks keeping track..that’s 2 meltdowns..

Actually, it’s already up to 6 today.

240 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:50:56am

re: #214 Sharmuta

OT: Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama


Jindal is a riddle. Seems like a quality guy, albeit with some “issues” when it comes to certain topics. My take on him is that he can be an effective “local” or “regional” Republican voice, but is definitely not someone I see as a “national” politician to be taken seriously. I put Sarah Palin in that same category. A quality individual, but not a future POTUS.

241 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:04am

re: #214 Sharmuta

OT: Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama

That’s how the empty suit got elected!

242 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:11am

re: #236 MandyManners

Does he hunt?

Why does bobby jindal love 0bama?

243 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:13am

re: #231 loppyd

Did you hear the Massachusetts State Trooper who is also an US Army veteran, call into WEEI, (Boston’s Sports Talk Radio) this morning and described himself as being “enraged” by this report?

244 bolivar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:14am

re: #80 Charles

I cannot agree about this. A long-time LGF lizard who works for the DHS — who has proven to be very trustworthy over the course of years — has assured me that is not even remotely true.

I will take your word for this however I find the timing of the release - read that leak highly suspect and no matter how much they try to poo poo it the whole thing stinks to high heaven. Sorry if that blows up your knickers but, that is the way I see it.

245 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:29am

re: #214 Sharmuta

OT: Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama

Jindal needs to go away, far away from the Republican party. His 15 minutes is long been done.

246 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:32am

re: #210 tompaineftw

Its called sticking to the facts, tom. You should try it.

247 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:37am

re: #118 Van Helsing

Don’t give Cronkite a pass. I just saw his brilliant, clueless commentary on the Tet offensive.

Bastard. Rat Commie Bastard.

And Couric’s getting an award with Cronkite’s name on it, for ambushing Palin.

248 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:38am

re: #209 Dianna

They’re why I’m depressed.

Well, not the only one, but I’m not a happy woman, just now.

* * * *
Hey don’t feel bad.

We can do things today to turn lemons into lemonade.

Last night I heard speak a reformed Democrat woman who first worked in Ted Kennedy’s office and now is a Republican candidate. She said her whole family used to be Democrats and she helped them all see the “errah” of their Massachusetts Taxachusetts ways.

249 callahan23  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:51:39am

re: #225 Charles

Here’s one.

Ohh, retch what an utter creep.

250 wahabicorridor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:52:09am

Sorry for the bad link - try again


More FBI Numbers from Washington Times

251 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:52:28am

re: #218 avanti

I’d bet a beer that it was leaked by someone on the right in a attempt to embarrass DHS. Could be as simple as a local sheriff releasing it. There is no upside to the administration to leak the report.


No upside? Right before a nationwide tax protest? I was not born yesterday.

252 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:52:37am

re: #243 thebigolddog

Did you hear the Massachusetts State Trooper who is also an US Army veteran, call into WEEI, (Boston’s Sports Talk Radio) this morning and described himself as being “enraged” by this report?

I did not. Howie Carr read an email from an enraged state trooper yesterday….I wonder if it’s the same person.

253 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:52:37am

re: #210 tompaineftw

What the purpose of all this thread’s rationalizing on the gov’t’s behalf? This is the second time in three days that they stuck there foot in it. Lets their own PR dept handle it.

It’s not in defense of the gov’t that we discuss this, it’s against the irrational reaction by far too many on the right. If you blow a gasket when someone steps on your toes, what reaction is left to you when they cut off your foot?

254 Rancher  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:52:37am

As if there weren’t enough real issues to be outraged over, like O’bamas choice of Judge David Hamilton for the Southern Indiana District Court. His appointment throws out the concept of equal justice under the law in favor of “empathy”. What’s the Matter with Empathy?:

What’s wrong with it is that federal judges swear an oath to “administer justice without respect to persons” and to “do equal right to the poor and to the rich,” among other things. So when, for the first time in American history, a candidate for president announced that he would seek judges whose decision-making is premised explicitly upon partiality — rather than upon the impartiality that the law requires of a judge — it was so unprecedented and so outlandish that many thought it was just campaign talk…

It wasn’t.

255 AmeriDan  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:52:41am

re: #227 HoosierHoops

What’s the record for a meltdown..Has anyone ever melted with their first comment?
/ For you folks keeping track..that’s 2 meltdowns..

I picked twelve for the day, and with two already, I’m off to a great start!

256 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #202 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Stinky is a sniper.

/heh

With a high powered semi-automatic clue-by-4 cannon.

257 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #239 Charles

Actually, it’s already up to 6 today.


Yikes! I had the over/under at six. I must really s*ck as a bookie.
/can bookies get bail outs?

258 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #249 callahan23

Frankly, I’m not surprised by it.

259 Jonn Lilyea  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:21am

I wish I had the short memory to forget the way returning veterans were treated after Vietnam. I wish I didn’t have to remember how soldier’s pay was made paltry, how living conditions were dreary beyond anything the Washington Post discovered recently.

I wish I could afford the confidence in the government to treat the military like they deserve, but unfortunately I lived through the post-Vietnam Era as a soldier, and I remember how Democrats treated me and my family - and then issued us colorful bedspreads to make up for it all.

I remember how any sleight to the fighting forces just preceded more and deeper cuts - in budgets and treatment. I don’t enjoy the luxury of brushing small carelessly worded statements aside because my memory is one of the few things that still work on this old body.

The report that the FBI issued last year at least had the decency to call the chance that veterans would join terrorist organizations “minuscule”. This administration sees no need to assuage the feelings and fears of veterans - their attempt to make the troops pay for their own service-connected treatment should have been evidence enough for a rational person.

The DHS report mentioned McVeigh and Napolitano brought up his military experience on Fox News yesterday - even though nothing McVeigh did in Oklahoma City had anything to do with McVeigh’s military job training. I was in his division and I never learned how to build a bomb. The fact that they even mentioned McVeigh is evidence that they’re out to smear veterans and set us against the police in some perverse remake of the first Rambo movie.

Yes, Charles, there is a possibility that the FBI and DHS have cause to be alarmed about veterans, but, there’s also a possibility that veterans have cause to be alarmed about the FBI and DHS.

260 realwest  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:36am

re: #193 Charles
Karma: -8
Registered since: Mar 23, 2007 at 10:27 pm


No. of comments posted: 6
No. of links posted: 0

WHAT THE HELL IS IT WITH THESE PEOPLE? Honestly Charles I really don’t understand. Why bother to register, make a very few comments and then “dramatically” exit?

261 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:39am

re: #211 Wendya

For those of you who have not yet done so, you probably ought to compare the rightwing vs leftwing reports:

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

There is a pretty significant difference between the two.

The Report on the Right Wing mentions racial motives since the election of Obama. In some quarters the Tea Party attendees were characterised as being racially motivated.
How do you get past race if the won’t let you?

262 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:41am

re: #214 Sharmuta

OT: Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama

* * * *

Cheney was discussing Obama decisions, actions, policies.

NOT questioning Obama’s “patriotism” or “motives”.

Jindal, get back to work in your poor state.

263 wahabicorridor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:53:42am

re: #234 Sabnen

I’ve read the DHS report again, and I still don’t see the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) mentioned in it.

It’s in the report on leftwing extremists

264 AmeriDan  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:54:32am

re: #255 AmeriDan

I picked twelve for the day, and with two six already, I’m off to a great start!

265 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:54:36am

re: #239 Charles

Actually, it’s already up to 6 today.

Maybe you could put a melt down tab under the top and bottom comments. For us Lizards that can’t always keep up.

266 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:54:37am

re: #257 HoosierHoops

Yikes! I had the over/under at six. I must really s*ck as a bookie.
/can bookies get bail outs?

hmmm. I’ll give you 3 to 1 against.

267 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:54:57am

re: #253 CyanSnowHawk

It’s not in defense of the gov’t that we discuss this, it’s against the irrational reaction by far too many on the right. If you blow a gasket when someone steps on your toes, what reaction is left to you when they cut off your foot?

Damn well put!

268 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:54:57am

re: #223 calcajun

Never been up, but was in one when they turned the engines over. I cannot imagine being in something that rattled/vibrated that much for 10- 16 hours straight.

20 minutes was enough for me! You couldn’t hear, you couldn’t see because you were bouncing around and vibrating so much, you couldn’t talk. Despite all that, I’ll go again in a heartbeat! :D

269 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:54:58am

re: #214 Sharmuta

OT: Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama

WTH?

270 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:55:27am

re: #251 Russkilitlover

No upside? Right before a nationwide tax protest? I was not born yesterday.

Why energize the protesters with the DHS report ? A lot of the protest signs were directed toward the DHS report.

271 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:55:44am

re: #198 calcajun

Still, it’s cool to think that one is still serviceable.

I live near Miramar (everyone in San Diego between I-8 and Hwy 56 lives near Miramar) and love seeing the Blue Angels every year. But, what causes a lump in my throat is hearing that dull rumble of piston engines, looking up, and seeing either a B-24 or B-17 flying over, like some prehistoric bird.

A few years ago 3 of the flying B-17s were in Seattle at Boeing Field, the main B-17 plant, for an event. All 3 flew in close formation around Seattle including over my house.

272 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:55:50am

re: #262 alegrias

Cheney was discussing Obama decisions, actions, policies.

NOT questioning Obama’s “patriotism” or “motives”.

I agree.

273 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:55:54am

re: #220 Van Helsing

Makes it real easy to understand TFKs love and respect for John F’ing Kerry when you see his picture along with with hanoi Jane and domestic terrorists protesters in the Vietnam War Museum.

I am not a fan of BHO, but I loathe kerry. I was in no way like “Genghis Khan.”

274 KenJen  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:56:14am

re: #234 Sabnen

I’ve read the DHS report again, and I still don’t see the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) mentioned in it.

I wonder if the DHS is keeping an eye on Bill Ayers-an admitted terroist.

275 NYCHardhat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:56:18am

Obama has ties to terrorism. Bush didn’t
Obama has ties to racism. Bush didn’t
Obama has ties to anti-americanism. Bush didn’t

I’m sorry if I have a heightened sense in whatever this administration comes out with. I’m only human, I can get carried away too.

276 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:56:25am

re: #220 Van Helsing

Makes it real easy to understand TFKs love and respect for John F’ing Kerry when you see his picture along with with hanoi Jane and domestic terrorists protesters in the Vietnam War Museum.

I, for one, am pleased to learn F’ing Kerry is now on a watch list! I’m a bit surprised that he didn’t get honorable mention, since the report uses examples of the past to illustrate it’s point …

277 Gearhead  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:56:32am

re: #265 Erik The Red

Maybe you could put a melt down tab under the top and bottom comments. For us Lizards that can’t always keep up.


Make guessing the daily number a contest and let the winner push the Eject button on the next troll.

278 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:56:35am

re: #256 DaddyG

With a high powered semi-automatic clue-by-4 cannon.

I’m sure glad he’s not the ban of my existence.
/couldn’t resist … sorry, everyone

279 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:56:49am

re: #270 avanti

Why energize the protesters with the DHS report ? A lot of the protest signs were directed toward the DHS report.

An obvious effort to minimize something that he considered a threat politically.

280 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:57:03am

re: #260 realwest

Karma: -8
Registered since: Mar 23, 2007 at 10:27 pm

No. of comments posted: 6
No. of links posted: 0

WHAT THE HELL IS IT WITH THESE PEOPLE? Honestly Charles I really don’t understand. Why bother to register, make a very few comments and then “dramatically” exit?

Infiltrator in the wire!

281 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:57:12am

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Six Things You Should Know About the Homeland Security Report on ‘Rightwing Extremism’

4. The summary (unclassified) document is terrifying. One can only imagine what is contained in the classified version. This document runs directly counter to numerous U.S. Supreme decisions prohibiting the government from engaging in any activities that could serve to chill the exercise of expressive liberties. Liberties are chilled, in constitutional parlance, when people are afraid to express themselves for fear of government omnipresence, monitoring, or reprisals. The document also informs the reader that Big Brother is watching both public and private behavior.

5. The whole purpose of the First Amendment is to guarantee open, broad, robust debate on the policies and personnel of the government. The First Amendment presumes that individuals — NOT THE GOVERNMENT — are free to choose what they believe and espouse, what they read and say, and with whom they associate in public and in private. The writers of this abominable report are particularly concerned with the expression of opinions that might be used to fuel ideas that challenge federal authority or favor state and local government over the federal government. Unfortunately, legislation passed during the past eight years gives the DHS and the FBI the tools to monitor everything from a telephone conversation to the keystrokes used on a personal computer without a warrant issued by a federal judge.

282 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:57:16am

re: #148 Charles

Unfortunately, what we’re seeing with this report is that far too many right-wing blogs and Republicans are taking it as an attack on them, when it’s targeted only at extremists — and the report makes that very, very clear.

By losing it over this report, they’re only cementing that impression that the GOP is the party of extremists — instead of agreeing that some of these groups DO need to be watched, people are making the unfortunate choice to self-identify with them. It’s sad.

Exactly right.

Although I am suspicious about the release being timed to coincide with the Tea Parties in order to get a rise out of conservatives, and to play the kooks….Just like with the birth certificate, people on the right getting their knickers in a twist over this only serves to help the left portray all conservatives as nutburgers.

283 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:57:25am

The mainstream conservative blogs are continuing to bleat and seethe over the insensitivity of the DHS, their hurt feelings and delusions of persecution. This is no different than What CAIR has been doing for years every time there’s a report that mentions “Islamic extremism”. I’m disgusted by the conservative reaction to this. They are giving cover to some very nasty and violent groups and individuals. It’s pathetic.

284 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:57:28am

re: #221 ArchangelMichael

Yep I’d love to see a B-29 there sometime but I don’t know if any of them are still airworthy. I think they were a pain in the ass to maintain when they were new.

According to wiki (take with salt accordingly) all the surviving real Me262s are in museums.

I went to a private party last night at the San Diego Aerospace Museum. I walked by the SR-71 mounted out front to a lobby that contained the Apollo 9 capsule. Then wandered around until I found my favorite WWII aircraft, the P-51. So much to see there.

285 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:57:34am

re: #247 Ward Cleaver

And Couric’s getting an award with Cronkite’s name on it, for ambushing Palin.

* * * *
Couric could easily replace Robert Gibbs as White House spokesman.

286 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:57:39am

re: #221 ArchangelMichael

Yep I’d love to see a B-29 there sometime but I don’t know if any of them are still airworthy. I think they were a pain in the ass to maintain when they were new.

According to wiki (take with salt accordingly) all the surviving real Me262s are in museums.

Being a life member of the Confederate Air Force or currently known as the Commemorative Air Force (politically correct version) I can assure you B-29 known as FiFi is airworthy and still doing the deed!

287 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:58:15am

re: #260 realwest

WHAT THE HELL IS IT WITH THESE PEOPLE? Honestly Charles I really don’t understand. Why bother to register, make a very few comments and then “dramatically” exit?

I don’t get it either. My guess is that some of them are after martyr points. Getting banned looks good to their buddies AtS or at that ripoff site.

288 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:58:20am

re: #270 avanti

Why energize the protesters with the DHS report ? A lot of the protest signs were directed toward the DHS report.

And those people were profiled as kooks by the MSM.

I suspect the timing because I have no reason to trust Napolitano.

289 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:58:26am

re: #238 AMER1CAN

From the article, “...surge in activity by such groups.

Where is the evidence? This report has zero evidence. Where are the numbers? Where are the stats? This shit is purely opinion and conjecture.

Absolute garbage.

Oh yeah! Wait until they follow with a new report about crazed Right Wing Extra Terrestrials. The real threat.

290 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:58:26am
291 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:58:27am

re: #280 jcm

Infiltrator in the wire!

zzzzzelectron.

292 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:59:13am

re: #214 Sharmuta

OT: Jindal to Cheney: Lay off Obama

Jindal thinks Cheney is Obama’s boss?

293 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:59:19am

This report also demonstrates why you don’t want Alex Jones, Ron Paul types and their fellow travelers at Stormfront attending your Tea Parties.

294 KenJen  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:59:43am

re: #269 Ward Cleaver

WTH?

I dont see anywhere Jindal told Cheney to tone it down.

295 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:59:44am

re: #281 thebigolddog

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Six Things You Should Know About the Homeland Security Report on ‘Rightwing Extremism’

This being the same Andrew Napolitano who did a joint show with Alex Jones. I’d say his credibility is less than stellar.

296 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:00:27am

re: #259 Jonn Lilyea

The report that the FBI issued last year at least had the decency to call the chance that veterans would join terrorist organizations “minuscule”. This administration sees no need to assuage the feelings and fears of veterans - their attempt to make the troops pay for their own service-connected treatment should have been evidence enough for a rational person.

The DHS report absolutely does say that only a tiny number of veterans would be susceptible to joining extremist groups.

297 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:00:47am

re: #295 Dark_Falcon


This being the same Andrew Napolitano who did a joint show with Alex Jones. I’d say his credibility is less than stellar.


This seems to be the direction everybody is headed.

298 LionOfDixon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:01:06am

re: #269 Ward Cleaver

Mondale to Clinton: Get off Monica. Or was it get off on Monica. I’m so confused. Gotta get back to clinging to my religion, guns, 2nd and 10th Amendments and my honorable discharge.

299 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:01:31am

re: #272 Sharmuta

I agree.

* * * *
As if Cheney, who had to put up with John Edwards’ unforgiveably crass invoking of Cheney’s daughter’s sexual orientation during a Vice Presidential Debate, would STOOP SO LOW.

300 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:02:17am

re: #290 Iron Fist

Well- jindal did say this:

Jindal did offer some criticism of the president, pointing out that it is “fine to have an honest disagreement on the policies that both administrations would choose to try to keep us safe.”

I thought that’s what Cheney was doing….? Which one is it?

301 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:02:32am

re: #281 thebigolddog

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Six Things You Should Know About the Homeland Security Report on ‘Rightwing Extremism’

“Judge” Andrew Napolitano, when not raving about the DHS report, promotes conspiracy freak Alex Jones as “a great man,” and pimps for racist paleocons like Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul. If that’s who you’re getting your information from, you might as well join Stormfront.

302 callahan23  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:03:19am

re: #258 Sharmuta

Frankly, I’m not surprised by it.


It is just the temerity to go ‘n register at a rational, morally sound weblog posting extremely few comments one of which is racist VB-stuff and then leave in that fashion. WTH is in the brains of people like that?

Dinner’s ready bbl.

303 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:03:41am

re: #268 Russkilitlover

20 minutes was enough for me! You couldn’t hear, you couldn’t see because you were bouncing around and vibrating so much, you couldn’t talk. Despite all that, I’ll go again in a heartbeat! :D

The B-17 Liberty Belle flew over our house a few times, a couple of weeks ago. I’m tempted to spend the money to go up.

As far as B-29s go, the CAF’s FiFi is the only flyable one left (she’s being re-engined in Midland right now). They’ve owned her a for a long time (I remember seeing it at a CAF show in 1971, when I was a kid).

304 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:04:10am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

This seems to be the direction everybody is headed.

Well, there you go again. Your arms must be exhausted from flinging around that broad brush.

305 HDrepub  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:04:26am

VROOM VROOM. The sound of my Harley engine turning over. Out of here, 72 degrees and sunny. Time for some wind in my face.

306 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:04:35am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

This seems to be the direction everybody is headed.

Not me, brother, and not Charles either.

307 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:04:49am

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

What is that you disagree with in his analysis or does simply interviewing the nut Alex Jones disqualify all of one’s opinions?

308 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:04:55am

re: #305 HDrepub

VROOM VROOM. The sound of my Harley engine turning over. Out of here, 72 degrees and sunny. Time for some wind in my face.

That was just mean.
Pouting…

309 NYCHardhat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:05:04am

re: #305 HDrepub

VROOM VROOM. The sound of my Harley engine turning over. Out of here, 72 degrees and sunny. Time for some wind in my face.

Fuck yeah. Live your life. I need to drive through downtown traffic soon. ugghh.

310 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:05:26am

re: #304 Russkilitlover

Well, there you go again. Your arms must be exhausted from flinging around that broad brush.

He’s right. I’ve seen very few conservative blogs who haven’t jumped on the victimization bandwagon over the DHS report.

311 Lincolntf  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:05:28am

re: #304 Russkilitlover

Let him rant. The longer the screamers on both sides of the issue stay on the Internet, we can continue to have the real Tea Parties without their interruption.

312 realwest  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:05:31am

re: #233 karmic_inquisitor
LOL! Well as a Vietnam combat veteran myself, and being somewhat older than you are (I must be, my Mom’s the only person I know who’s older than me!) I have to say that I think Americans today can be just as stoic, as heroic and as Patriotic as those Americans of the past.
But it does require some LEADERSHIP to get their collective butts in gear. And when I say LEADERSHIP I mean leadership that is dedicated to the preservation and defense of America.

313 formercorpsman  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:05:52am

re: #283 Killgore Trout

I will be totally honest in saying I have not really delved into this issue more than quietly reading the posts here.

In this report, how in depth did they go?

In my world, research for things medical is often supported by double blind studies, a true attempt at hard data.

Some comments I have read make mention of missing statistical analysis, hard numbers, etc.

314 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:08am

re: #254 Rancher

As if there weren’t enough real issues to be outraged over, like O’bamas choice of Judge David Hamilton for the Southern Indiana District Court. His appointment throws out the concept of equal justice under the law in favor of “empathy”. What’s the Matter with Empathy?:


…The consequences for the federal judiciary of the last election are only just beginning, with the lawless “empathy” criterion now in effect for judicial picks. It’s especially ironic that in order to rush these judges to their new posts on the federal bench — where, instead of following the law, they can dispense “empathy” to ACLU-favored parties — the White House and Chairman Leahy are trampling on another Obama campaign promise: transparency and accountability.

Transparency and accountability for thee, even if not for me.

315 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:14am

I’m trying to catch up. How many Afghanistan-Iraq vets have been linked to militias, etc.?

316 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:18am

re: #307 thebigolddog

…does simply interviewing the nut Alex Jones disqualify all of one’s opinions?

Yes, it does. He didn’t simply “interview” him, he called him “the one, the only, the great Alex Jones.”

Yes, that disqualifies his opinions.

317 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:22am

re: #310 Charles

Radical is the new mainstream.

318 Sabnen  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:22am

re: #263 wahabicorridor

Thanks. I missed that report completely. Earth First! was mentioned on the last page.

319 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:33am

re: #301 Charles

Judge Nap is the equivalent of a neo-Nazi group? I need to get out more.

320 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:40am

re: #307 thebigolddog

What is that you disagree with in his analysis or does simply interviewing the nut Alex Jones disqualify all of one’s opinions?


Here is a quote from the Article..
The summary (unclassified) document is terrifying.
Ok you can crawl out from under the bed now Judge…

321 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:06:50am

re: #296 Charles

The DHS report absolutely does say that only a tiny number of veterans would be susceptible to joining extremist groups.

I’m sorry but I still can’t see many veterans wearing pink spandex and big floppy hats.

/

322 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:07:02am

re: #305 HDrepub

VROOM VROOM. The sound of my Harley engine turning over. Out of here, 72 degrees and sunny. Time for some wind in my face.

I thought we didn’t torture under this administration. You’re torturing all of us who are unable to ride. Enjoy it man.

323 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:07:03am

Has there been any report issued by DHS warning about returning vets joining radical Left-wing groups?

Some have.

324 nyc redneck  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:07:25am

given everything we know abt.o, including his disdain for the military, it is
not possible for me to give him and his cronies the benefit of the doubt here.
it’s just gut feeling but a very strong one. the kind i listen to.

325 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:07:26am

What’s with these people named Napolitano?

326 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:07:29am

re: #313 formercorpsman

Some comments I have read make mention of missing statistical analysis, hard numbers, etc.


Don’t believe everything that you read on conservative blogs. They aren’t what they used to be.

327 Catttt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:07:56am

OT - I want that NanaWall. ————>

328 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:08:17am

re: #307 thebigolddog

What is that you disagree with in his analysis or does simply interviewing the nut Alex Jones disqualify all of one’s opinions?

He didn’t just interview Jones, he did a joint show with him, which unlike an interview indicates substantial agreement with Jones. But I also disagree with Napolitano’s analysis as well.

329 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:08:31am

Anybody have any idea what the value of the DHS report is to anyone (apart from any political benefits)?

Law enforcement can’t possibly find anything in it they didn’t already know.

There’s nothing in it I didn’t know…. and I suspect most/all of us didn’t know already.

Doesn’t that call into question the reasons for releasing it?

330 tompaineftw  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:08:45am

re: #301 Charles

“Judge” Andrew Napolitano, when not raving about the DHS report, promotes conspiracy freak Alex Jones as a “a great man,” and pimps for racist paleocons like Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul. If that’s who you’re getting your information from, you might as well join Stormfront.

Ad hominem.

Information is information. That was just a simple posting of text arguments.

/ Reverse meltdown?

331 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:08:45am

re: #307 thebigolddog

What is that you disagree with in his analysis or does simply interviewing the nut Alex Jones disqualify all of one’s opinions?

Calling Alex Jones “great” does in my book.

332 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:09:02am

As a complete aside -

We are wrapping up a 4 week visit of a German exchange student to our home. I have done work in Europe over the last 20 years and have gotten the opportunity to work with a lot of Europeans of all different stripes.

I am a little disturbed from this recent experience and hope it is isolated but suspect not.

Without going too far into things, I see this kid as having been conditioned to suppressing any and all German nationalism but having a scary degree of European nationalism. Such that he is quick to point out any and all failings he observes that can be associated with “Americans” and uses every opportunity to point out how rational Europeans have long since overcome such issues.

I have not met a person under the age of 18 with such a prejudicial mind in my life. Facts do not deter or derail his opinions. Europe is simply the best of civilization and America is somewhere between Iran and Guatemala.

As for the Marshal Plan and Berlin airlift, one gets “we are tired of hearing of this” or “of course you should help other people in struggling democracies”. And when one asks about Iraq regarding “struggling democracies” you get a sigh and a “that is completely different.”

Just a single data point and I hope it is an outlier.

333 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:09:20am

Guys I just popped in to say thank you for the videos and pics you sent me for my post on Blacks at the tea parties.
I have put up new post about Obamacrats and phony racism at Tea parties.
Some funny pics.


Phony racism

I can’t believe I was ever a Democrat. I must have been blind.

334 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:09:51am

re: #319 thebigolddog

OK, now you’re willfully mischaracterizing what Charles said.

GAZE

335 Danny  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:09:52am

The whole thing boils down to this: there are way more non-extremist veterans and “rightwing” people who oppose abortion, illegal immigration, gun control, and federal infringement on states’ rights than there are extremist “rightwing” people who harbor the same sentiments. The DHS knows this and could have been much more precise with their language in the report. Even Napolitano half-assed acknowledges this. When you associate honest a huge group of law-abiding people with a tiny group of offensive idiots, even if only tangentially, you’re asking for trouble. The fact that the assessment wasn’t intended for the press or general public doesn’t matter. I know law enforcement professionals who are as offended by the language in the assessment as anyone. I’m not sure if there was political bias involved with it or not, but it looks to me like it’s way too early to say, and lots of people much smarter than I think there is.

336 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:09am

re: #329 eschew_obfuscation

It was intended as a general warning for things for local law enforcement to keep an eye out for.

337 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:22am

re: #281 thebigolddog


Holy crap, taking about spinning a report to the level of paranoia. Summation, our present government hates freedom, and is watching those that love freedom with awful eyes. That is a way to calm the radicals.

“My guess is that the sentiments revealed in the report I read are the tip of an iceberg that the DHS would prefer to keep submerged until it needs to reveal it. This iceberg is the heavy-hand of government; a government with large and awful eyes, in whose heart there is no love for freedom, and on whose face there is no smile.”

338 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:31am

re: #303 Ward Cleaver
We had a Vultee BT-15 assigned to the B-29 squadron in the CAF during the late 70’s-80’s. Used to fly it during airshows….a great thrill and priviledge!

339 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:31am

re: #329 eschew_obfuscation

From the introduction to the report:

This product is one of a series of intelligence assessments published by the Extremism and Radicalization Branch to facilitate a greater understanding of the phenomenon of violent radicalization in the United States. The information is provided to federal, state, local, and tribal counterterrorism and law enforcement officials so they may effectively deter, prevent, preempt, or respond to terrorist attacks against the United States.

340 Sabnen  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:32am

Why didn’t they issue one report and just call it “Extremist Activity Outlook for the Decade to Come”? Then have two sections …

341 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:34am

re: #310 Charles

He’s right. I’ve seen very few conservative blogs who haven’t jumped on the victimization bandwagon over the DHS report.

Victimhood has far too many benefits.

342 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:37am

re: #286 Scorch

Being a life member of the Confederate Air Force or currently known as the Commemorative Air Force (politically correct version) I can assure you B-29 known as FiFi is airworthy and still doing the deed!

The big problem with B-29’s was the engines would overheat and then “swallow” a valve.
One of my books says that an NCO found the problem was that the temperature sensor was on the top cylinder, but the airflow caused one to the side to get hotter, causing that cylinder to go first. But the war ended before the entire report made it back, and they had found another fix.

Nice plane, and well ahead of its time. I wonder if the Connecticut air museum has theirs done yet. If so, I have to go on Open Cockpit day.

343 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:10:54am

re: #336 Killgore Trout

It was intended as a general warning for things for local law enforcement to keep an eye out for.

The difference between a risk assessment and a threat assessment.

344 Gearhead  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:01am

Am I the only one hearing echoes of Waco? To be clear, I’m NOT calling DHS a bunch of ‘jackbooted thugs’. I seem to remember the extreme right trying to legitimize itself or vie for idea leadership of the right in a time when the GOP had just lost the White House and was looking for direction. Some talking head were playing along, for reason I still don’t understand. And, for it’s part, the media seemed eager to paint them as representative of the entire Republican party.

345 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:06am

re: #290 Iron Fist

That’s helpful. I’ll say it again. The Republicans are pussies. They have no balls. No balls at all. The fucking Democrats accuse the Republicans of starving old people and children, of pilliaging the environment, of using harsh language in front of Jihadis, and all manner of malfeasance. And then they get personal.

The Republicans never fight back. Never. Not even a little. And then they wonder why they aren’t winning the elections.

* * * *
Republicans are held to a higher double standard in that if you defend yourself or your ideas too forcefully, you risk getting labeled as aggressive, out of touch, can’t take a joke, not COOL, etc.

So Republicans need to be smarter about explaining why their ideas of:

“Life is Beautiful”
“Small Is Beautiful”
“Private Property is Good”
“Individual Liberty versus Top Down Control”
“Peace through Strength”

are actually better for you than mass produced Marxist solutions made in government factories and brought to you by ACORN unionistas on YOUR TAX DOLLAR!

346 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:17am

re: #329 eschew_obfuscation

Anybody have any idea what the value of the DHS report is to anyone (apart from any political benefits)?

Law enforcement can’t possibly find anything in it they didn’t already know.

There’s nothing in it I didn’t know…. and I suspect most/all of us didn’t know already.

Doesn’t that call into question the reasons for releasing it?

O.K. I’ll admit there might be something in the classified version, but how does releasing an unclassified version that brings no news help us?

347 realwest  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:31am

Sorry y’all but I gotta run. Have a great day and I hope to get the chance to see you all down the road!

348 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:35am

I smell another couple of meltdowns approaching.

349 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:45am

re: #333 Afrocity

Guys I just popped in to say thank you for the videos and pics you sent me for my post on Blacks at the tea parties.
I have put up new post about Obamacrats and phony racism at Tea parties.
Some funny pics.


Phony racism

I can’t believe I was ever a Democrat. I must have been blind.

That Vietnam vet (first picture) is a sharp-looking guy. What city was that in?

350 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:51am

re: #286 Scorch

and she’s a movie star—look at “The Right Stuff”

351 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:11:52am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

This seems to be the direction everybody is headed.

EVERYbody? EVERYone? … *gasp* … YOU TOO?!

/*grin* … just teasing about the choice of word

352 pat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:12:26am

re: #332 karmic_inquisitor

Muslims think they have a superior civilization also.

353 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:12:35am

re: #335 Danny

The whole thing boils down to this: there are way more non-extremist veterans and “rightwing” people who oppose abortion, illegal immigration, gun control, and federal infringement on states’ rights than there are extremist “rightwing” people who harbor the same sentiments. The DHS knows this and could have been much more precise with their language in the report.

Sounds like CAIR……

The whole thing boils down to this: there are way more non-extremist Muslims and devout people who oppose abortion, illegal immigration, gun control, and federal infringement on states’ rights than there are extremist Muslim people who harbor the same sentiments. The DHS knows this and could have been much more precise with their language in the report.
354 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:12:50am

re: #323 Ringo the Gringo

Has there been any report issued by DHS warning about returning vets joining radical Left-wing groups?

Some have.

I could become radicalized with people like that since my kid is in Iraq (again) just trying to do his job.

I hate those f***ers quite passionately.
re: #333 Afrocity

355 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:12:51am

re: #296 Charles

The DHS report absolutely does say that only a tiny number of veterans would be susceptible to joining extremist groups.

It does not.

It says “The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups in the 1990’s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.”

356 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:13am

re: #211 Wendya

For those of you who have not yet done so, you probably ought to compare the rightwing vs leftwing reports:

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

There is a pretty significant difference between the two.

Leftwingers tend to use computers more to attack what they see a fascist government or The System as they like to call it. Hacking power grids, military communications, corporate mainframes, etc all in the name of disrupting “The System.” Live Free or Die Hard had a good scene where John McClain explains to the Hacker he’s protecting its not a system it’s a country, it’s people being attacked. A computer hacker is an effective weapon against a modern society and could cause plenty of deaths in car accidents and people on life support in hospitals. The sudden breakdown of society could cause riots and looting resulting in more injuries and deaths. So every side has their preferred weapon of choice and they are all potentially deadly.

357 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:14am

re: #284 CyanSnowHawk

I went to a private party last night at the San Diego Aerospace Museum. I walked by the SR-71 mounted out front to a lobby that contained the Apollo 9 capsule. Then wandered around until I found my favorite WWII aircraft, the P-51. So much to see there.

A few years ago my gf and I went to Balboa Park so she could take pictures of the building architecture. While we were down there we wandered over to the Aerospace Museum and I saw the SR-71 there. I had no idea it was there, I only remembered there being a F2Y outside so the Blackbird was a shock. I haven’t been inside the place since I was in high school though. I need to go back sometime.

358 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:45am

re: #333 Afrocity

Boo-booed on the earlier one.

Afrocity - you rock. Excellent.

359 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:48am
360 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:52am

re: #339 Charles

From the introduction to the report:

Unless the classified version had more detail in it and went to law enforcement, I’d say it failed in its purpose

361 Gearhead  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:52am

re: #350 calcajun

and she’s a movie star—look at “The Right Stuff”

Hey! I remember that!

/favorite movie.

362 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:57am

re: #317 Killgore Trout

Radical is the new mainstream.

I might not take it quite that far, but you DO have a point.

/CRAP!

363 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:13:59am

re: #342 Kosh’s Shadow

Ever saw that heart-breaking Nova episode about the crashed B-29 they found in the ice in Greenland. Uncovered it, thawed it, restored it and someone left a heater on in the plane. Burned. Total loss.

364 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:14:04am

re: #261 opnion

The Report on the Right Wing mentions racial motives since the election of Obama.


Kinda destroys the meme that this was a Bush report, doesn’t it?

I have no doubt there remain racists of every flavor in this country. Most of them are loudmouthed cowards.

365 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:14:28am

re: #333 Afrocity

Guys I just popped in to say thank you for the videos and pics you sent me for my post on Blacks at the tea parties.
I have put up new post about Obamacrats and phony racism at Tea parties.
Some funny pics.


Phony racism

I can’t believe I was ever a Democrat. I must have been blind.

There was a time in our history when being a Democrat was a good thing. Sadly in these days being affiliated with either of the 2 main parties seriously taints one’s image. Hopefully at least one if not both of these parties gets back to the business of representing Americans or they get voted out and replaced by others who do.

366 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:14:35am

re: #360 eschew_obfuscation

Unless the classified version had more detail in it and went to law enforcement, I’d say it failed in its purpose

Did you read it?

367 capitalist piglet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:15:00am

re: #349 Ward Cleaver

That Vietnam vet (first picture) is a sharp-looking guy. What city was that in?

I think that man was in Denver.

368 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:15:07am

re: #332 karmic_inquisitor

As a complete aside -

We are wrapping up a 4 week visit of a German exchange student to our home. I have done work in Europe over the last 20 years and have gotten the opportunity to work with a lot of Europeans of all different stripes.

I am a little disturbed from this recent experience and hope it is isolated but suspect not.

Without going too far into things, I see this kid as having been conditioned to suppressing any and all German nationalism but having a scary degree of European nationalism. Such that he is quick to point out any and all failings he observes that can be associated with “Americans” and uses every opportunity to point out how rational Europeans have long since overcome such issues.

I have not met a person under the age of 18 with such a prejudicial mind in my life. Facts do not deter or derail his opinions. Europe is simply the best of civilization and America is somewhere between Iran and Guatemala.

As for the Marshal Plan and Berlin airlift, one gets “we are tired of hearing of this” or “of course you should help other people in struggling democracies”. And when one asks about Iraq regarding “struggling democracies” you get a sigh and a “that is completely different.”

Just a single data point and I hope it is an outlier.

Give him a copy of Atlas Shrugged as a going away present. If it doesn’t push him to think, it will at least keep him out of the way for a few weeks.

369 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:15:13am

re: #357 ArchangelMichael

You must—it is worth the price of admission. Also, Wings over Gillespie is a great family outing.

370 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:15:29am

re: #349 Ward Cleaver

That Vietnam vet (first picture) is a sharp-looking guy. What city was that in?

I thought he was in DC. No matter how we feel about the parties.
The truth should be told and liberals should not use them as fodder to imply racism on the part of conservatives. That is just using race to keep blacks beholden to the DNC in my opinion.

I am trying to help Blacks wake up, and at least know they have a choice and that they are welcome by GOP.

371 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:15:47am
372 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:15:47am

re: #363 calcajun

Ever saw that heart-breaking Nova episode about the crashed B-29 they found in the ice in Greenland. Uncovered it, thawed it, restored it and someone left a heater on in the plane. Burned. Total loss.

Yes; that was a tragedy.
I did see the one at the Connecticut museum while they were working on it; we were there one day when they let people through the workshops. Stuck my head up the bomb bay and looked into the cockpit. I have some nice pictures of that visit.

373 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:16:04am

re: #342 Kosh’s Shadow

The big problem with B-29’s was the engines would overheat and then “swallow” a valve.
One of my books says that an NCO found the problem was that the temperature sensor was on the top cylinder, but the airflow caused one to the side to get hotter, causing that cylinder to go first. But the war ended before the entire report made it back, and they had found another fix.

Nice plane, and well ahead of its time. I wonder if the Connecticut air museum has theirs done yet. If so, I have to go on Open Cockpit day.

They had lots of problems in hot weather, like flying their runs between the Marianas and Japan. I’ve seen pictures of seized engines, props sheared off, etc. Also, I had a friend (RIP) who was stationed on the south end of Tinian in ‘44 - ‘45 (he was a captain over some ordnance mechanics), and he talked about the B-29’s problems.

374 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:16:26am

re: #355 loppyd

It does not.

It says “The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups in the 1990’s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.”

Are you serious? That absolutely says that only “a small percentage” would be willing to join these groups.

375 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:16:45am

re: #333 Afrocity

Guys I just popped in to say thank you for the videos and pics you sent me for my post on Blacks at the tea parties.
I have put up new post about Obamacrats and phony racism at Tea parties.
Some funny pics.


Phony racism

I can’t believe I was ever a Democrat. I must have been blind.

* * * *
Sorry I did not have a camera to record for you that there were Black speakers and attendees at the DC Tax Protest tea party I attended, in addition to many other races, colors, creeds and languages.

376 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:16:51am

I’d be willing to bet that 90% of the people yelling about this report have not actually read it.

377 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:16:51am

re: #373 Ward Cleaver

They had lots of problems in hot weather, like flying their runs between the Marianas and Japan. I’ve seen pictures of seized engines, props sheared off, etc. Also, I had a friend (RIP) who was stationed on the south end of Tinian in ‘44 - ‘45 (he was a captain over some ordnance mechanics), and he talked about the B-29’s problems.

I think the hot weather made the overheating much worse, but it was there on some of the first flights.

378 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:17:27am

re: #366 Charles

Did you read it?

Yes. It speaks in generalities, doesn’t name specific groups that have posed problems in the past such as the left-wing report Fox posted does (with the exception of Timothy McVeigh)

What did you take away from the new report that you found useful?

379 KenJen  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:17:40am

Just throwing this out there ..What if we had a terrorist attack tomorrow, here in the U.S., and the culprits were those described in the DHS report? Would you question the timing of the report?

380 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:17:48am
381 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:18:17am

re: #359 Iron Fist

Hear! Hear!

382 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:18:28am

re: #286 Scorch

Being a life member of the Confederate Air Force or currently known as the Commemorative Air Force (politically correct version) I can assure you B-29 known as FiFi is airworthy and still doing the deed!

Hopefully someday I will get to see it. I’ve been inside a B-17 and a B-25 (on the ground), and I’ve seen B-52s and a B-1B at the Miramar Air Show.

383 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:18:51am

I heard Alex Jones last night, regarding the DHS report, say that *they want to paint us all as white supremacists*.
I was like, huh? As far as I know, he IS one of em, isn’t he?
The guy is dangerous.

384 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:19:20am

re: #333 Afrocity

Guys I just popped in to say thank you for the videos and pics you sent me for my post on Blacks at the tea parties.
I have put up new post about Obamacrats and phony racism at Tea parties.
Some funny pics.


Phony racism

Great site, Avanti. Well done and really good stuff on there.

Cheers!

I can’t believe I was ever a Democrat. I must have been blind.

385 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:19:25am

re: #362 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I also think that as mainstream conservatives become more radicalized “normal” people are going elsewhere. I can’t be the only one who looks at all the blogs I used to trust and finds that they’ve gone nuts. They might still have some good ideas or interesting thoughts but I don’t visit much anymore and when I do I give it a quick skim to see what they’re talking about but I really don’t take anything from them seriously anymore.

386 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:19:28am
387 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:19:50am

re: #364 Wendya

Kinda destroys the meme that this was a Bush report, doesn’t it?

I have no doubt there remain racists of every flavor in this country. Most of them are loudmouthed cowards.

The report was begun during the Bush administration, and completed during the Obama administration. Fact.

388 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:19:57am

re: #373 Ward Cleaver

My Dad’s boss-many years ago-was on one of the rescue boats off of Tinian. He mentioned to me once that almost every bomber had to use ever inch of runway to get airborne as they were almost always overloaded with bombs and fuel. Many simply went over the edge of the runway, off the cliff and ditched. Not many were able to get out of the sinking planes.

389 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:06am

re: #336 Killgore Trout

It was intended as a general warning for things for local law enforcement to keep an eye out for.


So… local law enforcement should keep their eye out on :

Returning vets

Second Amendment supporters

People who are opposed to illegal immigration

….. Gee, sounds like political profiling to me.

390 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:12am

re: #369 calcajun

You must—it is worth the price of admission. Also, Wings over Gillespie is a great family outing.

Where’s that at?

391 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:21am

re: #368 CyanSnowHawk

Give him a copy of Atlas Shrugged as a going away present. If it doesn’t push him to think, it will at least keep him out of the way for a few weeks.

Or ‘Caliphate’.

392 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:33am

re: #363 calcajun

Ever saw that heart-breaking Nova episode about the crashed B-29 they found in the ice in Greenland. Uncovered it, thawed it, restored it and someone left a heater on in the plane. Burned. Total loss.

I was just thinking about that the other day. Darryl Greenamyer and his guys, rescuing the Kee Bird. They had a can of gasoline that fell over, hit the hot APU, and boom, major fire. Damn shame, especially considering that one of his best guys died while they were getting that thing ready to fly again (basically from overwork).

393 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:33am

re: #384 Russkilitlover

Great site, Avanti

Afrocity…………AACK! Mea, mea, culpa! Called you Avanti.

394 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:42am

re: #345 alegrias

* * * *

“Peace through Strength overwhelming firepower

FIFY!

395 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:52am

re: #371 Iron Fist

Never that I know of. It had always been a good thing since before the founding of this country. I’m just asking a question partially based on this part:

A Feb. 23 draft memo from FBI domestic counterterrorism leaders, obtained by The Wall Street Journal, cited an “increase in recruitment, threatening communications and weapons procurement by white supremacy extremist and militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.”

396 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:20:55am

re: #342 Kosh’s Shadow

The big problem with B-29’s was the engines would overheat and then “swallow” a valve.
One of my books says that an NCO found the problem was that the temperature sensor was on the top cylinder, but the airflow caused one to the side to get hotter, causing that cylinder to go first. But the war ended before the entire report made it back, and they had found another fix.

Nice plane, and well ahead of its time. I wonder if the Connecticut air museum has theirs done yet. If so, I have to go on Open Cockpit day.


The Studebaker built B 29 engines would never swallow a valve :)

397 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:21:14am

re: #374 Charles

Are you serious? That absolutely says that only “a small percentage” would be willing to join these groups.

It absolutely doesn’t say tiny as you suggested.

What is the cutoff for a small percentage in numbers?

398 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:21:17am

re: #376 Charles

I’d be willing to bet that 90% of the people yelling about this report have not actually read it.

I have.

And I also read the sister report on leftwing extremism.

That’s why I’m not brushing this off.

399 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:21:24am

re: #386 buzzsawmonkey

playing to the worst … etc.

You are right!

400 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:21:53am

re: #377 Kosh’s Shadow

I think the hot weather made the overheating much worse, but it was there on some of the first flights.

Exactly, that’s my point; the engine cooling became a big problem in hotter climates, especially on takeoff.

401 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:22:05am

re: #384 Russkilitlover

If I could just get Avanti alone in a room for one hour, he would walk out a conservative again. Or better yet if I could take him for a ride in Obama’s Chicago.

402 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:22:14am

re: #326 Killgore Trout

Don’t believe everything that you read on conservative blogs. They aren’t never were what they used to be.

FIFY.
A lot of blogs out there are nothing but bullshit, no matter the political orientation. One of the reasons why I’m glad Charles does LGF. He keeps a sane and level head, and sticks to the facts.

403 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:22:27am

re: #389 Wendya

Well, if they make a traffic stop of a Vet with nazi tattoos and a trunk load of weapons then maybe he’s just not going to the range. Maybe he’s somebody they want to keep an eye on.

404 Mr Spiffy  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:22:27am

The aim of the FBI’s effort with the Defense Department, which was rolled into the Vigilant Eagle program, is to “share information regarding Iraqi and Afghanistan war veterans whose involvement in white supremacy and/or militia sovereign citizen extremist groups poses a domestic terrorism threat,” according to the Feb. 23 FBI memo.

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater

So let me see if I get this straight—
as a sovereign citizen, as long as I’m not affiliated with a white supremacist group, I’m in the clear?
Or is it the extremist part that gives the FBI and DHS the willies?

405 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:22:47am

re: #379 KenJen

Don’t know about that one. Hopefully it stays a hypothetical question.

406 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:22:59am

re: #393 Russkilitlover

Afrocity…………AACK! Mea, mea, culpa! Called you Avanti.

you did that on purpose and you know it. ROTF

407 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:23:00am

re: #389 Wendya

So… local law enforcement should keep their eye out on :

Returning vets

Second Amendment supporters

People who are opposed to illegal immigration

….. Gee, sounds like political profiling to me.

Napolitano says that footnote is regrettable

Mmkay.

408 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:23:26am

re: #348 Charles

I smell another couple of meltdowns approaching.

Hey, all #347 realwest said was

Sorry y’all but I gotta run. Have a great day and I hope to get the chance to see you all down the road!

That didn’t seem much like a dramatic goodbye.

/////////

409 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:23:33am

re: #401 Afrocity

If I could just get Avanti alone in a room for one hour, he would walk out a conservative again. Or better yet if I could take him for a ride in Obama’s Chicago.

What, you are going to get Avanti mugged?

//////

410 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:23:40am

re: #401 Afrocity

If I could just get Avanti alone in a room for one hour, he would walk out a conservative again. Or better yet if I could take him for a ride in Obama’s Chicago.

Why do you say again? It seems to me if someone was ever a conservative, there is no way in hell they could vote for 0bama.

411 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:23:42am

re: #369 calcajun

You must—it is worth the price of admission. Also, Wings over Gillespie is a great family outing.

Ahh yes. The smell of high octane aviation fuel and 60 weight aviation oil definitely gets my old heart pumping!

412 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:24:23am

re: #390 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Gillespie Field in El Cajon. It’s an event they have every year with a gathering over some serviceable old warbirds. They host the Wings over America people —if you want to fly in a B-24 or B-17 (for about $400 per head)

413 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:24:48am

re: #388 calcajun

My Dad’s boss-many years ago-was on one of the rescue boats off of Tinian. He mentioned to me once that almost every bomber had to use ever inch of runway to get airborne as they were almost always overloaded with bombs and fuel. Many simply went over the edge of the runway, off the cliff and ditched. Not many were able to get out of the sinking planes.

My friend told me about the planes ditching, too. Also about ditching short of the runway on the return trip, because Tinian was at the edge of their fuel range, and some would run out. Talk about living on the edge? Damn.

414 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:24:56am

re: #409 jcm

What, you are going to get Avanti mugged?

//////

No but he would see how the people in his neighborhood actually live.

415 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:25:06am

re: #370 Afrocity

I thought he was in DC. No matter how we feel about the parties.
The truth should be told and liberals should not use them as fodder to imply racism on the part of conservatives. That is just using race to keep blacks beholden to the DNC in my opinion.

I am trying to help Blacks wake up, and at least know they have a choice and that they are welcome by GOP.

* * * *
As I said to you last night, as a military brat I am fortunate to have had conservative black neighbors, teachers, doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, colleagues, professors and friends influencing me all my life, proving we all have minds and thoughts of our own choosing.

416 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:25:14am

re: #357 ArchangelMichael

A few years ago my gf and I went to Balboa Park so she could take pictures of the building architecture. While we were down there we wandered over to the Aerospace Museum and I saw the SR-71 there. I had no idea it was there, I only remembered there being a F2Y outside so the Blackbird was a shock. I haven’t been inside the place since I was in high school though. I need to go back sometime.

They’re getting ready to open the DaVinci exhibit, that should be awesome.

417 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:25:14am

re: #387 Charles

The report was begun during the Bush administration, and completed during the Obama administration. Fact.

Have you ever taken over a report project started by another group or person?

When I finish, it bears little resemblance to the original.

The DHS civil rights division admitted it was rushed into publication. I don’t think Bush was behind that.

418 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:25:36am

re: #401 Afrocity

If I could just get Avanti alone in a room for one hour, he would walk out a conservative again. Or better yet if I could take him for a ride in Obama’s Chicago.

If I were in a room with him for 10 minutes I would be doing life in a 10 by 10.

419 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:25:45am

re: #412 calcajun

Gillespie Field in El Cajon. It’s an event they have every year with a gathering over some serviceable old warbirds. They host the Wings over America people —if you want to fly in a B-24 or B-17 (for about $400 per head)

They do that at the Reading Air Museum every summer too - $400 to fly in a B-17. Too bad I spent my refund already!

420 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:25:51am

re: #410 soxfan4life

Why do you say again? It seems to me if someone was ever a conservative, there is no way in hell they could vote for 0bama.

He voted for Reagan and Bush…I think.
I know there is still good in him. Otherwise why would he come here?

421 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:26:10am

re: #403 Killgore Trout

Well, if they make a traffic stop of a Vet with nazi tattoos and a trunk load of weapons then maybe he’s just not going to the range. Maybe he’s somebody they want to keep an eye on.


You really are despicable.

422 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:26:46am

re: #417 Wendya

The DHS civil rights division admitted it was rushed into publication.


I don’t suppose they said why?

423 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:27:07am

re: #392 Ward Cleaver

I was just thinking about that the other day. Darryl Greenamyer and his guys, rescuing the Kee Bird. They had a can of gasoline that fell over, hit the hot APU, and boom, major fire. Damn shame, especially considering that one of his best guys died while they were getting that thing ready to fly again (basically from overwork).

An example of the transport version of the B-29, the C-97 is on display at Dover Air Force Base.

424 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #413 Ward Cleaver

That’s why they wanted to take this little island called Iwo Jima.

425 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:28:16am

Charles,

There seems to be something about the Opera web browser that does not like LGF. I can surf about quite well until I open LGF, and then it will freeze up within a few minutes.

At first I thought that it had something to do with auto comments, but that does not seem to be the case.

426 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:28:30am

re: #422 J.D.

I don’t suppose they said why?

No, as a matter of fact they weren’t happy about it.

Must have been Rove using his mind control techniques.

/

427 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:28:41am

re: #401 Afrocity

If I could just get Avanti alone in a room for one hour, he would walk out a conservative again. Or better yet if I could take him for a ride in Obama’s Chicago.

So if I stop being conservative, I can spend an hour alone with you? Then I love Obama!
/

428 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:28:48am

re: #403 Killgore Trout

Well, if they make a traffic stop of a Vet with nazi tattoos and a trunk load of weapons then maybe he’s just not going to the range. Maybe he’s somebody they want to keep an eye on.

Not if they found a prayer rug and a Koran in his trunk too. At least not during this administration.

429 Bradley F  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:28:53am

So LGF has now become another cheerleader site for the actions of this administration? What the DHS has done in this instance IS A JOKE. What the FBI is doing IS WRONG.

The FBI were the same folks who weren’t even sharp enough to recognize what CAIR was all about until a few months ago. More like the Federal Bureau of Clouseaus.

430 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:29:28am

re: #417 Wendya

Have you ever taken over a report project started by another group or person?

When I finish, it bears little resemblance to the original.

The DHS civil rights division admitted it was rushed into publication.

No, they did not say it was “rushed into publication” at all. They said they had concerns over some of the language, and the report was released to law enforcement agencies without resolving those concerns.

This is not the same thing at all.

431 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:29:31am

re: #410 soxfan4life

Why do you say again? It seems to me if someone was ever a conservative, there is no way in hell they could vote for 0bama.

I talked my best friend into voting for BHO,(although Plain helped a lot) and she is a conservative, but not a social conservative. More conservatives voted for Obama, then liberals voted for McCain. If you guys pull away from the religious right, I might vote for the GOP again.

432 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:29:49am

re: #427 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

So if I stop being conservative, I can spend an hour alone with you? Then I love Obama!
/

But then you would not be a man./

433 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:29:52am

re: #425 razorbacker

Charles,

There seems to be something about the Opera web browser that does not like LGF. I can surf about quite well until I open LGF, and then it will freeze up within a few minutes.

At first I thought that it had something to do with auto comments, but that does not seem to be the case.

* * **
I’ve had the same problem with my AT&T air card connection. Argh!

434 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:29:53am

I sense another banning coming.
Maybe I’m psychic.
/

435 formercorpsman  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:11am

re: #326 Killgore Trout

To be honest, I was referring to some comments I was reading here over the last couple of days, IIRC.

I visit here, American Thinker, VDH, and to a lesser extent, Malkin.

I thought I was asking a pretty fair question.

436 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:15am

re: #429 Bradley F

WTF?

437 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:23am
The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.

secure.wikileaks.org

438 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:24am

re: #420 Afrocity

He voted for Reagan and Bush…I think.
I know there is still good in him. Otherwise why would he come here?

Reagan, and Bush one.

439 njoriole  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:41am

I’m sorry Charles, but you seem to miss the main point here. The DHS drummed up a lot of scary prospects based upon, by their own admission in the report, nothing that has happened, or is even reasonably anticipated to happen in the near future, at least with respect to ACTUAL (as opposed to derangement syndrome-inspired) violence. When they specifically noted the danger (or concern, or whatever the actual wording was) from “single-issue” people - and pointedly mentioned those who are anti-abortion and anti-immigration reform - that moved the report from the realm (however tenuous) of true threat assessment to naked political calculation. Furthermore, we now find out that DHS’s own civil rights division strongly urged removing some of the more egregious passages, but was overruled/ignored. None of this concerns you in the least? Finally, to those who say smugly that the DHS also prepared a report on left-wing extremism, bear in mind that THAT report talked about ACTUAL extremism and violence by, for example, the Earth Liberation Front, which has, in fact, perpetrated real (not imagined or presumed) violence, including bombings. This is the perspective sadly lacking in your castigation of the “kooks.”

440 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:45am
441 LeonidasofSparta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:54am

#179 Thank you IronFist

IMHO (emphasis on the word ONLY) I find reason for concern for two reasons:
a) Our service men and service women should not be singled out as a potential threat because they are vets; and
b) How can DHS make this claim to the world but won’t do anything about Bill Ayers who IS a homegrown terrorist because he’s just a guy from the ‘hood?
IMHO I find this administration’s attitude, in all ways so far, reprehensible. To go to Cuba and kiss tookas, to go to Mexico and APOLOGIZE for being “heavy handed” — when we pay and pay and pay for illegal aliens to come to our country and get full benefits of the citizenry, to go to Europe and apologize for everything from soup to nuts and THEN, with the drug war on our Mexican border, the influx of illegals into our fair land and the release of the kooks at Gitmo, with a pinch of MiddleEast bowing, and NOW to make such a backhanded accusation that “vets” might become radicalized— the WHOLE THING continues to add up to a way of thinking and acting that is unacceptable.

IMHO the uproar may be about what appears to be an onslaught of unacceptable labeling, unacceptable taxation, unacceptable redistribution of wealth, unacceptable government intervention into our daily lives, and an unacceptable and unsafe way of “doing business” as a government that now pervades DC.

Napolitano is IMHO unqualified to run DHS, let alone make statements that are so BIASED. What factual basis is there for this statement?

There isn’t a clear thinking person that isn’t able to see the difference between owning guns and full-goose bozo FANATICS; but there are more nutjobs who have never served their country yet DHS was not talking about looking into those individuals.

IMHO the upset by many “conservatives” may be about being fed up and not being unable to TRUST the Obama administration to know right from wrong, good from evil and truth from lies.

442 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:30:55am

re: #427 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

So if I stop being conservative, I can spend an hour alone with you? Then I love Obama!
/

As tempting as that hour might be, the last statement is awfully extreme.

443 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:31:15am

re: #420 Afrocity

He voted for Reagan and Bush…I think.
I know there is still good in him. Otherwise why would he come here?

Are you saying Avanti is Darth Vader?

444 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:31:21am

re: #420 Afrocity

He voted for Reagan and Bush…I think.
I know there is still good in him. Otherwise why would he come here?

That MSNBC clip was quite telling.
I’ve not exactly lived a sheltered life but I had never heard of ‘teabagging’ in that context.

Saul Alinsky would be proud.

Great site by the way. Whether you like it or not, I’ll be looking often.

445 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:31:23am

re: #379 KenJen

Just throwing this out there ..What if we had a terrorist attack tomorrow, here in the U.S., and the culprits were those described in the DHS report? Would you question the timing of the report?

I wouldn’t question the timing of the report since most terrorist attacks take weeks, months, or even years depending on the size, scope, and desired effects of the attack. Sept. 11, 2001 and the Mumbai attacks differed in size however the planning, reconnaissance, and training all took time. Which is why I’m furious with the 9/11 Troofers since they called 9/11/01 a false flag operation and the like. Terrorists regardless of race, creed, or location always have the initiative.

446 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:31:30am

re: #429 Bradley F

In 9 … 8 … 7 … 6 … 5 …

447 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:31:39am

re: #429 Bradley F

So LGF has now become another cheerleader site for the actions of this administration? What the DHS has done in this instance IS A JOKE. What the FBI is doing IS WRONG.

The FBI were the same folks who weren’t even sharp enough to recognize what CAIR was all about until a few months ago. More like the Federal Bureau of Clouseaus.

Karma: 1

Bradley F

(Logged in)
Registered since: Feb 16, 2009 at 10:16 am
No. of comments posted: 20
No. of links posted: 0

Hope you enjoyed your visit.

448 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:31:59am

re: #429 Bradley F

At what point would you call this “cheerleading?” My recommendation, take a remedial reading class at some point in the very near future.

449 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:32:05am

re: #431 avanti

I talked my best friend into voting for BHO,(although Plain helped a lot) and she is a conservative, but not a social conservative. More conservatives voted for Obama, then liberals voted for McCain. If you guys pull away from the religious right, I might vote for the GOP again.

* * * *
Not taking your fake bait. You lose your ACORNs, Code Pinkos, International ANSR, SEIU, labor thugs, FIRST.

450 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:32:48am

re: #432 Afrocity

Ouch/

451 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:32:53am

re: #439 njoriole

And another. Goodbye.

452 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:33:15am

re: #429 Bradley F The distinction between cheerleader for he Obama administration and tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist may be lost on you, but there is a little room between the two poles.

453 otcconan  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:33:19am

Charles, I think that more and more, you are becoming very complacent in the face of overwhelming evidence that our government is beginning to target people like me, and yes, you. When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.

454 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:33:22am

re: #432 Afrocity

But then you would not be a man./

There’s always a catch.

455 eric  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:33:46am

I agree with Charles here. While there are numerous things I very much dislike about Obama and his administration, and I don’t feel comfortable withvthis, it is imperitive we keep a cooler head.

We on the right are held to a higher standard, we know that and are forced to deal with it. Any lunacy and ranting from the fringes will be seen as mainstream by the media.

We’ll convert people to our side(those that are convertable) with reason and discourse in ideas. The ranters(on both sides) are lost causes.

456 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:01am

re: #431 avanti

For your information, no Republican I know is affilated with the “religious right”.

Does your affiliation with Democrats automatically infer your acceptance of the beliefs of ALL of them?

457 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:06am

re: #427 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

So if I stop being conservative, I can spend an hour alone with you? Then I love Obama!
/

That was completely inappropriate!
And I agree 100%.

/ducks, runs real fast

458 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:27am

re: #429 Bradley F

this is what you sound like—really.

Youtube Video

459 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:33am

re: #439 njoriole

Finally, to those who say smugly that the DHS also prepared a report on left-wing extremism, bear in mind that THAT report talked about ACTUAL extremism and violence by, for example, the Earth Liberation Front, which has, in fact, perpetrated real (not imagined or presumed) violence, including bombings.

Again- the difference between a threat assessment and a risk assessment.

460 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:44am

re: #453 otcconan

Charles, I think that more and more, you are becoming very complacent in the face of overwhelming evidence that our government is beginning to target people like me, and yes, you. When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.

Oh brother.

461 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:48am

If only the Unicorns had arrived, there would not be such disquiet at LGF.

462 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:50am

re: #453 otcconan

Charles, I think that more and more, you are becoming very complacent in the face of overwhelming evidence that our government is beginning to target people like me, and yes, you. When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.

Just so long as no one locks him up with a caterpillar, or any other real torture.
/

463 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:34:56am

re: #453 otcconan

When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.

You forgot the sarc tag I assume.

464 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:00am

re: #443 ConservatismNow!

Are you saying Avanti is Darth Vader?

No not exactly, I am saying that I think Avanti feels conflicted about his choice to vote for Obama. If he were a true Obamacrat why come to LGF? To beat yourself silly against conservatives. I am sure he can find less banter at another site.

465 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:05am

re: #347 realwest

Sorry y’all but I gotta run. Have a great day and I hope to get the chance to see you all down the road!

Get back here! You are not dismissed.

466 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:11am

re: #259 Jonn Lilyea

This administration sees no need to assuage the feelings and fears of veterans - their attempt to make the troops pay for their own service-connected treatment should have been evidence enough for a rational person.

Now, I normally reserve the appellation “the Administration” to refer to the Executive Branch only. And the case you’re referring to here didn’t emanate from the Executive Branch; it came from the Veterans Administration.

I see nothing at all wrong with calling the VA out on this, but it’s useful to identify the proper targets.

467 button  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:14am

Given Obamas history of radicalism, and the Lefts
known predeliction for censorship, harassment, and imprisonment,
one should be wary of anything this administration does.
A bold step here, a little noticed law there, and before you know
it, the country is screwed. That’s how he’s doing it so far.
He’s got Congress and the MSM on his side. He can do anything
he wants; who’s going to stop him, the Constitution? His “oath
of office”? You?
The difference between Liberals, Communists, Socialists,
Fascists and Terrorists is a matter of degrees, and methods.
Their goals are the same- subservience to the State, or in
the case of Islamic Terrorists, religion (which is the State).
The only immediate remedy is to vote these animals out.
I just hope we still have a fair election (ha ha ha), or at least
one where Obama’s personal Brownshirts are’nt able to
throw it completely.

468 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:15am

re: #453 otcconan

What overwhelming evidence?

469 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:34am

re: #453 otcconan

Charles, I think that more and more, you are becoming very complacent in the face of overwhelming evidence that our government is beginning to target people like me, and yes, you. When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.


I can speak for all of us when I say thank goodness it will only be the rack and not someone putting panties on my head. //

470 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:36am

Sleepers coming out of the woodwork again.
Get the BBQs lit; big troll roast today.

471 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:47am

re: #385 Killgore Trout

So are you suggesting that suddenly The Huffington Post and Daily Kos are sane sites that normal people are going to?

The “conservative” sites are no more radicalized now than they have been. They’ve ranted and raved about this stuff for years, even while Bush was President. It’s one thing I noticed when I found LGF. It wasn’t prone to the same ranting as either the “conservative” or “liberal” blogs. Why you notice this stuff now, Killgore, is beyond me. It’s been there the whole time.

472 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:35:56am

re: #461 Creeping Eruption

If only the Unicorns had arrived, there would not be such disquiet at LGF.

Obama lied, unicorns died!

473 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:36:08am

re: #456 J.D.

For your information, no Republican I know is affilated with the “religious right”.

Does your affiliation with Democrats automatically infer your acceptance of the beliefs of ALL of them?

No, but the GOP’s party platform shows that acceptance.

474 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:36:10am

Why I am I reminded of the initial firestorms over VB?

475 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:36:11am
476 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:36:34am

re: #474 Sharmuta

Why I am I reminded of the initial firestorms over VB?

We even had a VBer pop up already.

477 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:36:38am

Time for an OT?

Remember all those reports about civilians killed by the Zionists war in Gaza last January? Humans rights groups helpfully published the names of many of these “civilians”.

Somebody did some research into these names.

Here’s a heart-breaking photograph of one of those poor wee defenseless innocent civilians.

More of those “civilians” killed in Gaza

Using various public websites, PTWatch has identified no fewer that 30 terrorists killed by the IDF that have been reported as “civilians” by PCHR.

478 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:36:52am

re: #453 otcconan

Charles, I think that more and more, you are becoming very complacent in the face of overwhelming evidence that our government is beginning to target people like me, and yes, you. When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.

Dude, you need one of these right now.

479 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:37:10am

re: #469 DaddyG

I can speak for all of us when I say thank goodness it will only be the rack and not someone putting panties on my head. //

Some people are into that… and both at the same time.

Whatever floats their boat, I guess…

/shudder

480 Spider Mensch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:37:12am

re: #389 Wendya

So… local law enforcement should keep their eye out on :

Returning vets

Second Amendment supporters

People who are opposed to illegal immigration

….. Gee, sounds like political profiling to me.


sounds like most of the local law enforement I know personally. I have no doubt the officers I know personally gave this notice the proper attention…a quick glimpse, a chuckle and then folded into fours to be used a coffe cup coaster…

481 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:37:23am
482 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:37:25am

re: #472 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Obama lied, unicorns died!

Stuck in a customs warehouse somewhere no doubt.

483 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:37:25am

re: #471 Honorary Yooper

So are you suggesting that suddenly The Huffington Post and Daily Kos are sane sites that normal people are going to?


No. Strawman.

484 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:37:34am

re: #443 ConservatismNow!

Are you saying Avanti is Darth Vader?

No, he’s just misguided.

485 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:37:53am

re: #431 avanti

I talked my best friend into voting for BHO,(although Plain helped a lot) and she is a conservative, but not a social conservative. More conservatives voted for Obama, then liberals voted for McCain. If you guys pull away from the religious right, I might vote for the GOP again.

I still am considered a PUMA even though I am am in the minority as a conservative. There are many liberals that voted for McCain. Avanti you are a smart guy there is no way in hell that you voted for Obama and feel 100% sure of your choice.

486 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:38:14am

re: #473 avanti

No, but the GOP’s party platform shows that acceptance.

Which it did back when you were voting for Reagan & Bush I.

487 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:38:22am

re: #455 eric

I agree with Charles here. While there are numerous things I very much dislike about Obama and his administration, and I don’t feel comfortable withvthis, it is imperitive we keep a cooler head.

We on the right are held to a higher standard, we know that and are forced to deal with it. Any lunacy and ranting from the fringes will be seen as mainstream by the media.

We’ll convert people to our side(those that are convertable) with reason and discourse in ideas. The ranters(on both sides) are lost causes.

Well said.

488 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:38:45am
489 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:39:12am

re: #479 MrSilverDragon

Some people are into that… and both at the same time.

Whatever floats their boat, I guess…

/shudder

Now there’s an idea for future interrogations. So that we can be culturally sensitive to our captors we can survey them…

Which of the following methods of persuasion are most attractive to you?
A) Mishanlding your holy books
B) Putting panties on your head
C) Blaring rock and roll music
D) Forcing you to watch old Jane Fonda movies

490 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:39:33am

re: #481 buzzsawmonkey

Waiting for OR to note that he won’t mind so much, as long as it’s Adriana Lima’s rack.

BOOB THREAD!

491 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:39:34am

re: #474 Sharmuta

Why I am I reminded of the initial firestorms over VB?

Remember the way that played out? There were a lot of people eager to embrace their inner radical. That’s exactly what we are seeing and why Alex Jones and Ron Paul are taken seriously in conservative circles these days.

492 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:39:39am

re: #470 Kosh’s Shadow

I’ve got the wood soaking and a fresh batch of rub ready. Bring ‘em on.


BTW—my rub recipe FYI
3 cups brown sugar
1 cup kosher salt
1 cup fresh chili powder
1 cup paprika
1/2 cup garlic powder
2 TBS Coleman’s English mustard
Rosemary and thyme optional.

mix in bowl—rub on and into meat, then keep remainder in sealed bowl.

Let the smoking begin!

493 Lincolntf  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:39:41am

re: #456 J.D.

That’s like what I used to have to try to explain to simple-minded people when they learned that I was an Irish Catholic Republican from Massachusetts. It didn’t fit any of their molds, so they generally just picked whichever angle fit their stereotypes and put me there.

494 alegrias  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:39:47am

re: #464 Afrocity

No not exactly, I am saying that I think Avanti feels conflicted about his choice to vote for Obama. If he were a true Obamacrat why come to LGF? To beat yourself silly against conservatives. I am sure he can find less banter at another site.

* * * *
Avanti dangled the prospect he’ll vote GOP, conditioned on the GOP tossing people out. Avanti did not concede the existence of nor offer to remove from his party any extremists he embraces so as not to offend you.

495 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:39:48am

re: #481 buzzsawmonkey

Waiting for OR to note that he won’t mind so much, as long as it’s Adriana Lima’s rack.

I was thinking the same, only about the panties on the head.

496 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:40:00am

re: #459 Sharmuta

Again- the difference between a threat assessment and a risk assessment.

Are you saying the right wing report is a risk assessment and not a threat assessment?

It was prepared by:

“the Extremism and Radicalization Branch, Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division. Coordinated with the FBI.”

497 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:40:01am

re: #440 Iron Fist

I’ve noted the white supremacist /militia link. I’ve also noticed the right wing/tea party/ Fox news/Timothy Mcveigh/ assassinating abortion doctor/ survivalist link. I’m curious about our returning vets affiliation with these groups.

498 Scorch  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:40:26am

Have a great afternoon and evening all. Have to run down to the store for some grapefruit juice. I feel the need for an ice cold salty dog!

499 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:40:29am

re: #491 Killgore Trout

Remember the way that played out? There were a lot of people eager to embrace their inner radical. That’s exactly what we are seeing and why Alex Jones and Ron Paul are taken seriously in conservative circles these days.

Not really.

But, hey, whatever you want to believe.

500 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:40:32am

re: #453 otcconan

Charles, I think that more and more, you are becoming very complacent in the face of overwhelming evidence that our government is beginning to target people like me, and yes, you. When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.

Ohfertheloveof…

Not the Iron Maiden !

501 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:40:42am

re: #469 DaddyG

I can speak for all of us when I say thank goodness it will only be the rack and not someone putting panties on my head. //

Yeah, they charge extra for that at Helga’s House of Pain.
Er, so I’ve heard.

502 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:40:59am

re: #492 calcajun

I’ve got the wood soaking…

Isn’t that a bit personal? /

503 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:41:01am

re: #492 calcajun

I’ve got the wood soaking and a fresh batch of rub ready. Bring ‘em on.

BTW—my rub recipe FYI
3 cups brown sugar
1 cup kosher salt
1 cup fresh chili powder
1 cup paprika
1/2 cup garlic powder
2 TBS Coleman’s English mustard
Rosemary and thyme optional.

mix in bowl—rub on and into meat, then keep remainder in sealed bowl.

Let the smoking begin!

Book marked. Sounds great:)

504 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:41:08am

re: #500 SasquatchOnSteroids

Ohfertheloveof…

Not the Iron Maiden !

My favorite metal band!

505 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:41:38am

re: #473 avanti

You are right and it is a problem—especially with so many otherwise viable GOP politicians have been forced to drink the proverbial Kool-aid. The same thing has happened on your side of the aisle with the far left. It’s hard to get that taint off when you enter the national political arena.

506 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:41:40am

re: #403 Killgore Trout

Well, if they make a traffic stop of a Vet with nazi tattoos and a trunk load of weapons then maybe he’s just not going to the range. Maybe he’s somebody they want to keep an eye on.

Ok, if this is an ordinary traffic stop & the weapons are discovered in the trunk (although, i doubt if tattoos constitute probable cuse to search the trunk0, what does being a veteran have to do with it?

507 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:41:49am

re: #455 eric

I agree with Charles here. While there are numerous things I very much dislike about Obama and his administration, and I don’t feel comfortable withvthis, it is imperitive we keep a cooler head.

We on the right are held to a higher standard, we know that and are forced to deal with it. Any lunacy and ranting from the fringes will be seen as mainstream by the media.

We’ll convert people to our side(those that are convertable) with reason and discourse in ideas. The ranters(on both sides) are lost causes.

That’s a good post but I must ask you: Why did you upding njoriole, whose post seemed to take the opposite tack?

508 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:02am

re: #502 DaddyG

Isn’t that a bit personal? /

Then he’s gonna rub his meat. Huh-huh.

509 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:05am

re: #481 buzzsawmonkey

Waiting for OR to note that he won’t mind so much, as long as it’s Adriana Lima’s rack.

You rang?

510 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #473 avanti

No, but the GOP’s party platform shows that acceptance.

You are a piece of work.

511 njoriole  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:14am

re: 459 Sharmuta

Again- the difference between a threat assessment and a risk assessment.


Man, that sure is a minor point of distinction, isn’t it? If you call it a “risk assessment” as opposed to a “threat assessment” (and I don’t honestly recall what they call it), then, according to Sharmuta (presumably) it’s perfectly alright to tell law enforcement personal across the country to, in essence, beware of people who are anti-abortion or anti-immigration reform. Do such minor semantics really mitigate against the outrageousness of this entire exercise? I think not.

512 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:32am

re: #504 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

My favorite metal band!

I fell asleep at one of their concerts years ago, without the aid of alcohol or drugs.

513 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:35am

re: #458 calcajun

How do you embed videos here? I missed that class.

514 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:45am

re: #484 Dark_Falcon

No, he’s just misguided.

link.

515 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:47am

re: #491 Killgore Trout

Well- I can understand that this hits too close to home for some folks, but I think we should be cautious in light of making excuses for extremists. I don’t think being a small government, Constitution lover makes one an extremist, and I don’t think people in law enforcement or at DHS think so either.

516 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:50am
517 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:42:52am

re: #501 Van Helsing

Reply but they have good deal on coupon day. Also, there’s “family night” too.//

518 bolivar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:43:18am

re: #431 avanti

I talked my best friend into voting for BHO,(although Plain helped a lot) and she is a conservative, but not a social conservative. More conservatives voted for Obama, then liberals voted for McCain. If you guys pull away from the religious right, I might vote for the GOP again.

Did her a big favor huh? Don’t do us any - we have enough helping us on the road to armageddon…..Bruce Willis will NOT be able to stop this one.

519 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:43:20am

re: #508 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Thanks, Bevis.///

520 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:43:47am

re: #496 loppyd

Are you saying the right wing report is a risk assessment and not a threat assessment?

Are you saying it’s not?

521 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:43:49am

re: #504 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

My favorite metal band!

My generations Iron Maiden…God I’m old!


Image: tortur02.jpg

522 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:44:13am

re: #439 njoriole

Finally, to those who say smugly that the DHS also prepared a report on left-wing extremism, bear in mind that THAT report talked about ACTUAL extremism and violence by, for example, the Earth Liberation Front, which has, in fact, perpetrated real (not imagined or presumed) violence, including bombings. This is the perspective sadly lacking in your castigation of the “kooks.”

So, if the report had made reference to innumerable death threats made against workers in abortion clinics, the assassination of clinic doctors and damage to their property and the clinics themselves, or the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building, you’d be cool with it? Somehow, I doubt it. But if it’s only the omission of such specifics that’s troubling, I’d agree that the report is somewhat sloppy in that regard.

Frankly, getting worked up over Rush’s flogging of this report is ridiculous. See “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” for where such knee-jerking is sure to lead.

523 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:44:16am

re: #520 Sharmuta

Are you saying it’s not?

Grow up. I asked you a question.

524 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:44:28am

re: #513 Idle Drifter

Just copy the URL at Youtube and past into the message box here. It’s easy—thanks to Charles’ handiwork.

525 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:44:51am

re: #514 avanti

link.

LOL, Thanks!

526 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:45:08am

re: #511 njoriole

The sleepers have awoken.

527 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:45:15am

re: #505 calcajun

You are right and it is a problem—especially with so many otherwise viable GOP politicians have been forced to drink the proverbial Kool-aid. The same thing has happened on your side of the aisle with the far left. It’s hard to get that taint off when you enter the national political arena.

Yep, I have more then a few I’d wish would go away. I’m hoping BHO can piss off the far left just as much as he does the far right.

528 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:45:21am

re: #502 DaddyG

Rough night.////

529 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:45:39am

The thing is avanti, I am somewhat socially liberal and for me that is why I left the DEMs it was not enough to keep me there. I gather you are the opposite. You went to liberal because you felt a greater attraction to your socially liberal side.

530 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:45:47am

re: #473 avanti

No, but the GOP’s party platform shows that acceptance.


Got any evidence for that assertion?

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/
We affirm every citizen’s right to apply religious values to public policy and the right of faith-based organizations to participate fully in public programs without renouncing their beliefs, removing religious objects or symbols, or becoming subject to government-imposed hiring practices. Forcing religious groups to abandon their beliefs as applied to their hiring practices is religious discrimination.

531 Noam Chumpski  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:46:07am

My only thought is: Is this “profiling” given that the report gives broad examples and very little on specifics or specific groups?

If it is, then when did profiling become ok?

Will the next report be concerned with “The Extreme Poor: Why They Shoplift So Much?”

532 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:46:12am

re: #504 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

My favorite metal band!

Up the Irons!

533 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:46:34am

re: #527 avanti

Yep, I have more then a few I’d wish would go away. I’m hoping BHO can piss off the far left just as much as he does the far right.

He is not a centrist. You are waiting for Godot.

534 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:47:08am

re: #509 Occasional Reader

I question your timing.

535 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:47:19am

re: #532 sngnsgt

Up the Irons!

Gonna put Powerslave on as soon as Rush is over.

536 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:47:57am

re: #516 Iron Fist

They’re fuckwads and jizzbangs. I want a single example of a returning vet who is engaged in these activities.

537 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:00am

re: #529 Afrocity

The thing is avanti, I am somewhat socially liberal and for me that is why I left the DEMs it was not enough to keep me there. I gather you are the opposite. You went to liberal because you felt a greater attraction to your socially liberal side.

Me, I’m fiscally liberal, but social conservative. I believe in massive government spending, but only to benefit white, straight, Christian, property-owning males.

//

538 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:07am

re: #316 Charles

Yes, it does. He didn’t simply “interview” him, he called him “the one, the only, the great Alex Jones.”

Yes, that disqualifies his opinions.


I like that philosophy. It makes life a lot simpler. I won’t have to waste any time considering opinions of people with whom I can find a major disagreement any more.

So, I just called my Doc and canceled my surgery next week. When he asked why, I said it was becuase he thinks Obama is a “great man” and therefore, none of his opinion matter to me any longer.

539 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:07am

re: #524 calcajun

Just copy the URL at Youtube and past into the message box here. It’s easy—thanks to Charles’ handiwork.

I’ve tried that but for some reason it’s not working for me but I’ll keep trying until it works. I might surprise myself.

540 cpuller  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:09am

I did find it interesting that in the one interview I saw of Napolitano, she tried to pass the blame. When asked if she had signed off on it (And believe me, if I was head of DHS and a report was coming out from my department, I’d read the damn thing and not claim I didn’t sign off on it), she said no but that she had skimmed it.

That seems very sketchy when the head of DHS won’t claim responsibility, regardless of whether the claims of bias are true, for her own departments’s reports.

Now, the whole it was an attack on verterans, etc., etc., I don’t know if that’s true. But, if she isn’t knowing exactly what is going on and has not read every word of a report by her department, is she really up for the task of being head of DHS?

541 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:10am

re: #523 loppyd

I said there’s a difference between the two. Do you disagree?

542 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:10am

I need to leave, but after perusing this thread, I’m left with the following thoughts:

(a) There are a lot of people nearing orgasms over a report that was
(b) not intended for public release, which
(c) contains contains non-specific data regarding non-specific percentages of
(d) groups of which most of us are in some respect connected to,
(e) not read in total by maybe 90% of the bloggers/commenters and
(f) has been misread/misinterpreted/exaggerated by the “other 90%”.

That is all. Back tonight, maybe tomorrow.

543 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:22am

re: #534 J.D.

I question your timing.

I question your questioning of his timing.

544 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:24am
545 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:48am

re: #537 Occasional Reader

Me, I’m fiscally liberal, but socially conservative. //

[had a glass of wine with lunch, so sue me]

546 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:48:50am

re: #529 Afrocity

The thing is avanti, I am somewhat socially liberal and for me that is why I left the DEMs it was not enough to keep me there. I gather you are the opposite. You went to liberal because you felt a greater attraction to your socially liberal side.

Yes indeed. To be fair, I’m not here because I’m conflicted about my vote, to the contrary, I’m still energized with the whole hope and change, both sides working together thing.

547 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:49:16am

Why do I hear laughter coming from Rohm Emmanuel’s office? Could it be the right wing pundits having paroxysms over a poorly worded memo written by low level functionaries with a bias while the press and the public completely forget that the administration just committed us to a budget that is quadruple the worst deficits we’ve ever had and the federal government is now dictating business policy to companies who are attached to the government teat when they should be restructuring under chapter 11 bankruptcy?

548 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:49:23am

re: #527 avanti

The problem is that BHO is, IMO, a true believer. That is why this lurch left in policies (not all but a lot) since Jan. 20. He’s using his high approval numbers to push through his plans. If the market keeps sinking, then he will pull back. If it goes up, he’ll get the credit. He will not govern from the center in that case.

549 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:49:24am

re: #534 J.D.

I question your timing.

You think I need a tuneup?

550 Kragar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:49:44am

re: #543 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I question your questioning of his timing.

I question your timing of his questioning

551 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:49:51am

re: #538 thebigolddog

And now the troll acts snarky and sarcastic:

GAZE

552 loppyd  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:49:59am

re: #541 Sharmuta

I said there’s a difference between the two. Do you disagree?

I asked you which one you thought it was. You have answered my question with a question twice now.

I have to get back to work so you can play that game with someone else.

553 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:50:23am

re: #533 Afrocity

He is not a centrist. You are waiting for Godot.

Nor is the country center right anymore. It’s making it’s liberal swing for a cycle or two.

554 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:50:32am

And 44 is interested in working with both sides? He WON and is the TOTUS.

555 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:00am

re: #546 avanti

Yes indeed. To be fair, I’m not here because I’m conflicted about my vote, to the contrary, I’m still energized with the whole hope and change, both sides working together thing.

You’re kidding right?

556 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:01am

re: #538 thebigolddog

So, I just called my Doc and canceled my surgery next week. When he asked why, I said it was because he thinks Obama Jack Kevorkian is a “great man” and therefore, none of his opinion matter to me any longer.

There that’s a better analogy.

557 Noam Chumpski  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:10am

re: #540 cpuller

I’d read the thing

Didn’t you hear? The new, transparent government no longer requires that anyone read anything… It’s ultra-transparent.

Like, ‘hey, let’s go with this first draft’ kind of stuff…

558 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:10am

re: #549 Occasional Reader

How ‘bout a belt?

559 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:17am

Youtube Video

I know what I was doing wrong now I grabbed the embed coding instead of the URL. Thanks Calcajun!

560 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:22am

re: #550 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I question your timing of his questioning

Wait, what was the question?

561 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:49am

re: #547 DaddyG

Why do I hear laughter coming from Rohm Emmanuel’s office? Could it be the right wing pundits having paroxysms over a poorly worded memo written by low level functionaries with a bias while the press and the public completely forget that the administration just committed us to a budget that is quadruple the worst deficits we’ve ever had and the federal government is now dictating business policy to companies who are attached to the government teat when they should be restructuring under chapter 11 bankruptcy?

Thank You ! My comment #166

What’s GollumRahm doing now that we’re focused on this?
That guy needs a Lojack.
562 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:51:59am

re: #543 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I question your questioning of his timing.

It is entirely too coincidental.

563 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:52:07am

re: #536 BatGuano

They’re fuckwads and jizzbangs. I want a single example of a returning vet who is engaged in these activities.

There are bound to be at least one or two; I’ll bet we’ll find one or two over on the left, too. What we’re not presently seeing - and the report says so, explicitly (which is my huge issue with it) - is any evidence whatsoever of planning for violent actions.

564 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:52:10am

re: #533 Afrocity

He is not a centrist. You are waiting for Godot.

Fixed it…

(all hail the One, the Organizer, the Centrist!)

565 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:52:17am

re: #560 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Wait, what was the question?

There was a question?

566 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:52:19am

re: #559 Idle Drifter

You’re welcome (I think).//

567 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:52:40am

re: #562 J.D.

It is entirely too coincidental.

HOW CONVENIENT!

568 Rancher  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:52:49am

re: #530 DaddyG

Got any evidence for that assertion?

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/
We affirm every citizen’s right to apply religious values to public policy and the right of faith-based organizations to participate fully in public programs without renouncing their beliefs, removing religious objects or symbols, or becoming subject to government-imposed hiring practices. Forcing religious groups to abandon their beliefs as applied to their hiring practices is religious discrimination.

That only shows acceptance to the right to their beliefs, not acceptance of those beliefs.

569 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:52:56am

re: #565 MrSilverDragon

There was a question?

What question?

570 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:03am

re: #540 cpuller

I did find it interesting that in the one interview I saw of Napolitano, she tried to pass the blame. When asked if she had signed off on it (And believe me, if I was head of DHS and a report was coming out from my department, I’d read the damn thing and not claim I didn’t sign off on it), she said no but that she had skimmed it.

That seems very sketchy when the head of DHS won’t claim responsibility, regardless of whether the claims of bias are true, for her own departments’s reports.

Now, the whole it was an attack on verterans, etc., etc., I don’t know if that’s true. But, if she isn’t knowing exactly what is going on and has not read every word of a report by her department, is she really up for the task of being head of DHS?


Well it’s the way Congress handles their “tasks” these days.

571 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:07am

re: #564 Occasional Reader

Fixed it…

(all hail the One, the Organizer, the Centrist!)

Obama - He’s his own trinity.

572 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:11am

re: #549 Occasional Reader

You think I need a tuneup?

Any more of that and you’ll get “plugged”.

573 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:27am

re: #12 lawhawk

You might not be willing to join the chorus on that front, but it does appear that the whole DHS report was politically ginned to be released at a time right before the tea parties over the questions of DHS lawyers. Napolitano wanted it done, and she purposefully politicized the document. The reports and investigations may have preceded Obama’s Administration, but Obama’s pick wanted this report in a bad way and moved to release it over the objections of her legal team.

It was a political hit job on their part.

Yes, and it was designed to cause hyperventilation on the left side, on the stale 1960s image of returning soldier-killers, but now, since much more of the country has taken leave of common sense, the right is hyperventilating along with the left.

I am so tired of extreme politics of any stripe. What will it take to get rid of it?

574 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:32am

re: #569 DaddyG

What question?

I think that was the question this time

575 bolivar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:34am

re: #555 Afrocity

You’re kidding right?

No, I think he really has drank the koolaid and it is working on him. Some that drank of the cup have realized they were deceived and lied to. Too bad but, thems the breaks.

576 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:49am

re: #571 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Obama - He’s his own trinity.

He already apologized for Hiroshima, I think he’s getting ready to apologize for Trinity, too.

577 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:51am

re: #572 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Any more of that and you’ll get “plugged”.

Ah, the spark of a pun thread…

578 cpuller  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:53:52am

re: #557 Noam Chumpski

Didn’t you hear? The new, transparent government no longer requires that anyone read anything… It’s ultra-transparent.

Like, ‘hey, let’s go with this first draft’ kind of stuff…


I consider it to be very unprofessional of Napolitano. A CEO/CFO can be prosecuted for not knowing what is in the financial statements of his company. If they’re expected to know everything about what their people are doing, I’d expect the same of Napolitano or any other head of a government department.

579 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:17am

re: #549 Occasional Reader

You think I need a tuneup?

Well… you could start there…

580 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:25am

re: #576 Occasional Reader

He already apologized for Hiroshima, I think he’s getting ready to apologize for Trinity, too.

Trinity looks great in a Bikini.

581 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:26am

re: #564 Occasional Reader

Fixed it…

(all hail the One, the Organizer, the Centrist!)

upding

582 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:34am

re: #574 Creeping Eruption

I think that was the question this time

I feel like Kareem Abdul Jabar in Airplane…

Huh?

583 callahan23  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:46am
re: #564 Occasional Reader
Fixed it…

(all hail the One, the Organizer, the Centrist!)


re: #571 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Obama - He’s his own trinity.


Priceless! DING

584 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:51am

re: #546 avanti

Yes indeed. To be fair, I’m not here because I’m conflicted about my vote, to the contrary, I’m still energized with the whole hope and change, both sides working together thing.

Sorry, avanti but I had to downding you for that one. Obama is not bringing hope, but rather despair, and the change he’s causing is not good.

585 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:56am

re: #563 Dianna

Of all the things I have to worry about a returning war vet is not one of them.

586 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:54:56am

re: #559 Idle Drifter

Big thanks to Charles too for allowing video postings. Sorry it’s a little late coming.

587 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:12am

re: #582 Van Helsing

I feel like Kareem Abdul Jabar in Airplane…

Huh?

The question is really a matter of time, and in Kareems case, Jive.

588 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:20am
589 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:22am

re: #558 calcajun

How ‘bout a belt?

GMTA
I was about to suggest he have another drink!

590 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:36am

re: #585 BatGuano

Of all the things I have to worry about a returning war vet is not one of them.

I concur.

591 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:39am

re: #572 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Any more of that and you’ll get “plugged”.

A penguin is taking a road trip when his car suddenly breaks down. Luckily for him, he finds himself just down the street from a mechanic. So,he pushes his car to the shop and asks the mechanic to take a look. The mechanic tells him that it will probably take a little while to find the problem and asks him to come back in an hour.

The penguin goes over to the supermarket, buys some fish sticks and vanilla ice cream, and spends the rest of the hour hanging out in the frozen section. After the hour is up, he waddles over to the mechanic’s shop.

Seeing him come in, the mechanic walks over, and wiping his hands on a rag, says, ‘Looks like you’ve blown a seal.’

The penguin blushes, wipes his beak with his flipper and says, ‘No, it’s just vanilla ice cream.’

592 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:41am

re: #483 Killgore Trout

No. Strawman.

No, sarcasm. You missed it because you seem to be wound up tighter than an overwound cheap watch.

Point is, the blogs have always ranted. I’ve avoided many of them because they do little but rant over petty and unsubstantiated crappola like this report. They make mountains out of molehills and fail to look at the problems in their own backyard. Really, it’s no different than what the blogs on the left do, and they’re really not any different.

However, you decided to focus on the first part of my comment and not address the second part. So you made my comment into a strawman for your benefit.

593 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:49am

re: #585 BatGuano

Of all the things I have to worry about a returning war vet is not one of them.

…Avanti/

594 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:52am

re: #577 MrSilverDragon

Ah, the spark of a pun thread…

I would claim to be the distributor of such, …
… but someone would accuse me of going in circles.

595 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:56am

re: #576 Occasional Reader

He already apologized for Hiroshima, I think he’s getting ready to apologize for Trinity, too.

I wonder if he’ll apologize to Great Britain for the whole “War of Independence” thing before his term is over?

596 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:55:58am

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

OK, now you’re willfully mischaracterizing what Charles said.

GAZE

You’re correct. He said I should just join Stormfront. Not really sure how I should take that. I was assuming it was to just cut out the middle-man (Judge Nap.) Perhaps I read it wrong. What was your take?

597 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:05am
598 avanti  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:11am

re: #555 Afrocity

You’re kidding right?

Nope, I’m part of the 60 some percent still drinking that kool-aid. Now, it’s in like the 70’s outside, so I’m heading outside for a bit.

599 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:17am

re: #546 avanti

One can dream. Look at history—really look at it—and you’ll see that what you’re hoping for has never happened with our two-party system. Human nature being what it is will never let it happen.

600 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:27am

re: #585 BatGuano

Is there one example of a right wing violent, etc. vet?

601 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:35am

re: #580 Creeping Eruption

Trinity looks great in a Bikini.

That took no effort atoll.

602 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:36am

re: #453 otcconan

Charles, I think that more and more, you are becoming very complacent in the face of overwhelming evidence that our government is beginning to target people like me, and yes, you. When they put the shackles on and start to stretch you on the rack, remember that I warned you.

How can you do a good job reloading ammo with those sweaty palms of yours?

603 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:41am

re: #580 Creeping Eruption

Trinity looks great in a Bikini.

She’s put on a little weight, señor… she’s looking a little alama-gorda.

604 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:43am

re: #566 calcajun

You’re welcome (I think).//

Don’t worry I’n not calling you a queen I just grabbed the first video in my favorites.

605 njoriole  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:44am

re: 522 Six Degrees

So, if the report had made reference to innumerable death threats made against workers in abortion clinics, the assassination of clinic doctors and damage to their property and the clinics themselves, or the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building, you’d be cool with it?


“Innumerable death?” And how often in the last decade have scary “religious right” fanatics from the so-called religious right made death threats against abortion clinic workers? Less than 1% of the number of calls for death of “BushHitler” by “artistes” and International ANSWER “peace” marchers, I’d wager. And how many abortion doctors were assassinated? One that I can recall, about what, 15-20 years ago? We’re not talking about history here, we’re talking (or rather, DHS is, supposedly) about CURRENT threats (and yes Sharmuta, threats, not risks, although I still say it’s a difference without distinction).

606 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:56:57am

re: #553 avanti

Nor is the country center right anymore. It’s making it’s liberal swing for a cycle or two.

You sir are dead wrong. Where were you on Wednesday?

607 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:57:06am

re: #601 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

upding

608 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:57:39am

The wheels on pre-Boomer Marine brat go round and round…:)

609 callahan23  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:57:45am

re: #572 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Any more of that and you’ll get “plugged”.


Not again. Remember?
/

610 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:57:50am

re: #598 avanti

Nope, I’m part of the 60 some percent still drinking that kool-aid. Now, it’s in like the 70’s outside, so I’m heading outside for a bit.

Don’t forget your Obama Kool Aid juice box and you can rest easy knowing that the box is 100% recyclable.

611 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:57:51am

re: #568 Rancher
Agreed - my point was that the Republican Party Platform has nothing resembling acceptance of the religious right as their default position. The religious right is a faction among many as evidenced by our dialogues and even arguments here.

I was asking Avanti to cite evidence of his assertion and even provided a link to the GOP 2008 platform to make it easier.

612 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:58:13am

re: #586 Idle Drifter

Is it verbotten to link something from Youtube—if not generally offensive. If so, I apologize.

613 Wendya  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:58:21am

re: #515 Sharmuta

Well- I can understand that this hits too close to home for some folks, but I think we should be cautious in light of making excuses for extremists. I don’t think being a small government, Constitution lover makes one an extremist, and I don’t think people in law enforcement or at DHS think so either.

Being a “small government constitution lover” does not make one an extremist according to the report. Those traits are just markers that could potentially cause you to join an extremist organization.

Still not liking this….

614 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:58:22am

re: #601 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That took no effort atoll.

Isle second that.

615 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:58:27am

re: #591 Dustyvet

A penguin is taking a road trip when his car suddenly breaks down. Luckily for him, he finds himself just down the street from a mechanic. So,he pushes his car to the shop and asks the mechanic to take a look. The mechanic tells him that it will probably take a little while to find the problem and asks him to come back in an hour.

The penguin goes over to the supermarket, buys some fish sticks and vanilla ice cream, and spends the rest of the hour hanging out in the frozen section. After the hour is up, he waddles over to the mechanic’s shop.

Seeing him come in, the mechanic walks over, and wiping his hands on a rag, says, ‘Looks like you’ve blown a seal.’

The penguin blushes, wipes his beak with his flipper and says, ‘No, it’s just vanilla ice cream.’

So what is the penguin, a gay fish?

616 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:58:46am

re: #601 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That took no effort atoll.

In chess terms, you’ve taken his Castle. Bravo!

617 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:58:48am

re: #552 loppyd

Considering the DHS’s standards for “risk” is more vague than the standards they use for “threat”, I’d say yes- this was a risk assessment.

You can note the differences in these two reports:

Risk
Threat

618 Afrocity  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:58:59am

re: #606 Wishing

You sir are dead wrong. Where were you on Wednesday?

He is not real. I am convinced of it now. Who says they are waiting for hope and change. He is yanking our chain.

619 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:59:09am

re: #601 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That pun left some damage in its Wake.

620 Dreader1962  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:59:24am

I don’t have any problem with targeting defined groups that have criminal and violent tendencies such as the KKK and neo-Nazi groups, but then there is the vague term ‘extremist’. However I would think that anyone joining these groups would be monitored, not just military members. Some of the most effective ways to go after an organized crime group (and that’s what these groups are) is to target financing - are they paying attention to the disgruntled bankers and accountants being recruited by these groups?

There absolutely needs to be clarity on what qualifies a group as a target of investigation and concern.

I served in the Army during the Clinton administration and they focused on stamping out ‘extremist’ elements in the Army - without a firm definition of what that really means. I had numerous discussions with people who gave this training and they never had a working definition of what was meant by extremist - just that ‘extremist = bad’. The best I got was that it was unacceptable for soldiers to have ‘extreme’ viewpoints - whatever that meant.

The very same administration that pushed this anti-extremism training ramped up the anti-sexual harassment training to the point where I went to classes at least once a month - more often than I went to the rifle range. This under a president who violated his own military’s rules concerning improper relationships with subordinates.

621 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:59:27am

re: #580 Creeping Eruption

Trinity looks great in a Bikini.

Unlike that Fat Boy in a speedo.

622 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:59:30am

re: #551 Dark_Falcon

And now the troll acts snarky and sarcastic:

GAZE

Is disagreeing enough to qualify one as a troll these days? Is that what things have come to?

623 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:59:46am

re: #614 SasquatchOnSteroids

I had to read it twice—looked like an optical Aleutian.

624 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:59:49am

re: #619 calcajun

That pun left some damage in its Wake.

I thought it was a pretty Sound pun.

625 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:59:57am

re: #610 Afrocity

Don’t forget your Obama Kool Aid juice box and you can rest easy knowing that the box is 100% recyclable.

As are his talking points.

626 Rancher  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:05pm

re: #611 DaddyG

I stand corrected.

627 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:23pm

re: #619 calcajun

That pun left some damage in its Wake.

They should coral all you punsters and drop you on an island.

628 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:25pm

re: #596 thebigolddog

You’re correct. He said I should just join Stormfront. Not really sure how I should take that. I was assuming it was to just cut out the middle-man (Judge Nap.) Perhaps I read it wrong. What was your take?

My take is that you shouldn’t get your analysis from people who associate with Alex Jones. He wasn’t saying you should join Stormfront, he was saying that both Jones and Stormfront have no credibility.

629 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:32pm

re: #423 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

An example of the transport version of the B-29, the C-97 is on display at Dover Air Force Base.

I used to see the last of the KC-97Ls (Texas ANG) at the old Dallas Naval Air Station, in the mid to late ’70s. Man, when they ran up those engines, the whole field went IFR.

/from the blue smoke

630 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:34pm

re: #624 MrSilverDragon

I thought it was a pretty Sound pun.

You take these things too littoral-ly.

631 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:35pm
632 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:55pm

re: #600 BatGuano

Is there one example of a right wing violent, etc. vet?

We all know of one: Tim McVeigh.

That was 1995. We all remember it much too clearly.

I’m sure there have been local examples, but - generally speaking - the answer is “not really.”

633 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:55pm

re: #595 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I wonder if he’ll apologize to Great Britain for the whole “War of Independence” thing before his term is over?

Heck why stop there. The left is already having white male dominated western civilization doing mea culpas for screwing up Eden in the first place.

634 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:00:59pm
635 brookly red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:12pm

re: #627 Van Helsing

They should coral all you punsters and drop you on an island.

I was hoping to keep them at bay…

636 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:19pm

re: #627 Van Helsing

They should coral all you punsters and drop you on an island.

I doubt that would stem the Tide.

637 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:19pm

re: #550 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I question your timing of his questioning

That was a nicely timed question.

638 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:24pm

re: #624 MrSilverDragon

A better editorial barrier would help.

639 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:30pm

re: #614 SasquatchOnSteroids

Isle second that.

Merry freaking Isthmus

640 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:36pm

re: #621 wrenchwench

Unlike that Fat Boy in a speedo.

You can see his Little Man.

641 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:39pm
642 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:41pm

re: #609 callahan23

Not again. Remember?
/

Wasn’t about spark plugs.
NYC was just corking off.

/or in, as the case may be

643 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:48pm

re: #546 avanti

Yes indeed. To be fair, I’m not here because I’m conflicted about my vote, to the contrary, I’m still energized with the whole hope and change, both sides working together thing.


Ya know, you do seem like a nice guy. You are never rude & your pretty upbeat, but come on. You are looking for both sides working together?
Look at BHO, Reid ,Pelosi, Schumer, Durbin & Frank. There is no history in any of them being bipartisan. They consider working together , agreeing with them.

644 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:49pm

re: #594 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I would claim to be the distributor of such, …
… but someone would accuse me of going in circles.

Youtube Video

645 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:58pm

re: #613 Wendya

Being a “small government constitution lover” does not make one an extremist according to the report. Those traits are just markers that could potentially cause you to join an extremist organization.

Still not liking this….

People who genuinely love and understand the Constitution aren’t joining nazi groups trying to destroy it.

When paulian/stormfronter types claim to love the Constitution, they’re full of shit.

646 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:01:58pm

re: #619 calcajun

That pun left some damage in its Wake.

Hey, it’s only Midway through the day, so Guam us a break.

647 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:02:03pm

re: #636 MrSilverDragon

I doubt that would stem the Tide.

Might keep it at bay for a bit.

648 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:02:05pm

re: #636 MrSilverDragon

My humor is ebbing away now.

649 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:02:23pm

re: #633 DaddyG

“Noble Savage” was / is one of the most mistaken ideas ever.

650 kynna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:02:49pm

re: #555 Afrocity

Apparently Avanti missed the whole “I won” exchange.

651 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:02:51pm

re: #626 Rancher

I stand corrected.

Your point was valid - I wasn’t clear.

No troubles.

(I sometimes like to say we’ve had a violent agreement).

652 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:02:54pm

re: #601 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That took no effort atoll.

You’re the one who bombed out.

653 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:03:09pm

re: #640 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You can see his Little Man.

Hey, don’t go nuclear on us.

654 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:03:14pm
655 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:03:16pm

re: #627 Van Helsing

They should coral all you punsters and drop you on an island.

Nope we’re still here, flinging puns in your Molokai.

656 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:03:29pm

re: #648 calcajun

My humor is ebbing away now.

If I could only work archipeligo into a pun… keep trying, can’t do it.

657 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:03:30pm

re: #641 buzzsawmonkey

WHAT? WHERE? WHEN?

Did the Japanese acknowledge their kooky misunderstanding about Pearl Harbor? How about their little faux pas at Nanking?

658 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:03:41pm

re: #641 buzzsawmonkey

Did Obama really apologize for Hiroshima?

Has he visited Japan yet?

659 thebigolddog  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:04:06pm

re: #628 Dark_Falcon

My take is that you shouldn’t get your analysis from people who associate with Alex Jones. He wasn’t saying you should join Stormfront, he was saying that both Jones and Stormfront have no credibility.

So then Judge Nap is the equivalent of a neo-Nazi group in the sense that at very least, neither has any credibility. Maybe I’m just confused.

660 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:04:24pm

re: #648 calcajun

My humor is ebbing away now.

You are making me crabby with this pun stuff.

661 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:04:25pm

re: #656 MrSilverDragon

Don’t know what you’re reef-ering to?

662 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:05:13pm

re: #641 buzzsawmonkey

Did Obama really apologize for Hiroshima?

Well, sort of.

In Prague, he talked about the need to banish nuclear weapons and said that “as a nuclear power — as the only nuclear power to have used a nuclear weapon — the United States has a moral responsibility to act.”

Not clear why stopping WWII gives us some unusual amount of “moral responsibility” as compared to, say, Russia, on the subjetc.

663 njoriole  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:05:27pm

Hey all you guys with the puns:
It’s Folly to be dragged through the Sewar(d).

664 brookly red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:05:43pm

re: #657 calcajun

WHAT? WHERE? WHEN?

Did the Japanese acknowledge their kooky misunderstanding about Pearl Harbor? How about their little faux pas at Nanking?

yes, but that was back in 1945…

665 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:05:53pm

re: #656 MrSilverDragon

If I could only work archipeligo into a pun… keep trying, can’t do it.

I know what you mean. Thinking that hard just takes the “pun” out of pun-insula.

666 callahan23  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:00pm

re: #642 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Wasn’t about spark plugs.
NYC was just corking off.

/or in, as the case may be


So was it the hair-‘plugs’?

667 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:04pm

re: #596 thebigolddog

You’re correct. He said I should just join Stormfront. Not really sure how I should take that. I was assuming it was to just cut out the middle-man (Judge Nap.) Perhaps I read it wrong. What was your take?

No, just don’t listen to Alex Jones (he’s insane), and take anything that peeps that listen to him (like Judge Nap) say with truckload of salt.

668 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:14pm

re: #659 thebigolddog

So then Judge Nap is the equivalent of a neo-Nazi group in the sense that at very least, neither has any credibility. Maybe I’m just confused.

No, I think you’re getting on the right track finally. Judge Nap has also supported Alex Jones. Jones and Paul have had some support from Sithfronter types. None of them have any real credibility what-so-ever.

669 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:16pm
670 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:18pm

re: #656 MrSilverDragon

If I could only work archipeligo into a pun… keep trying, can’t do it.

Does that mean you’re lagoon off in frustration?

671 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:31pm

re: #656 MrSilverDragon

If I could only work archipeligo into a pun… keep trying, can’t do it.

I’m sure you can string a few ideas into an arching-pun-that’ll-go.

672 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:33pm

re: #636 MrSilverDragon

I doubt that would stem the Tide.

If it did, I think we’d All Cheer. Because that would be Fab.

673 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:38pm

re: #654 buzzsawmonkey

On the other hand, champignons sauvages are fantastic.

Your reference to this mushroom clouds our attempt to make atomic testing puns.

674 kynna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:39pm

Sad to say, I have to also question the timing and put this in the political hit job column. This administration will continue to work closely with the MSM to make political statements they otherwise can’t just come out and declare. The MSM picks up the ball, highlighting those special lines, and voila, conventional wisdom is born.

675 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:48pm

re: #662 Occasional Reader

That’s not an apology. That’s a statement of fact used as justification to act henceforth in a positive manner. That’s not saying “oops-our bad.”

676 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:06:52pm

re: #670 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Does that mean you’re lagoon off in frustration?

Swamped with ideas?

677 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:14pm

re: #669 taxfreekiller

Obama’s only choice is foreign policy ventures.

If he stays in D.C. and attempts to do domestic issues, the fact that
Nancy Pelosi is calling all those shots will be way to clear. So he plays like he is the boss by being out of town talking to other useless big wigs.

I fear there is way more truth in that than I care for.

678 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:21pm

re: #673 Occasional Reader

Your reference to this mushroom clouds our attempt to make atomic testing puns.


Don’t do it. They will only bomb.

679 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:28pm

re: #632 Dianna

We all know of one: Tim McVeigh.

That was 1995. We all remember it much too clearly.

I’m sure there have been local examples, but - generally speaking - the answer is “not really.”

I cited Tim Mcveigh earlier. He was kicked out of the army, thought too violent for the militias. He was an aberration, a singular example, a poster boy for America hating leftists, the one icon that the left clings to as an example of right wing extremism when in fact he was a free lance nut job whom nobody claims.

680 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:29pm

re: #645 Sharmuta

Sharm? That didn’t address what Wendya wrote there, even though you quoted it.

I see your point, but I also see Wendya’s. We’re going to end up tagged (no matter what Charles says, or you say, or I say) as “prone to extremism.”

681 Bradley F  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:34pm

Hey… I’ll admit I’m a newbie poster here. But I’ve enjoyed this site for a long, long time, as I’ve appreciated the info, POV, enthusiasm and witty comments. But I quite honestly don’t understand why the disparaging of our returning vets - and as one poster mentioned, it could have a detrimental effect on potential employment opportunities - by the Janet N. led DHS and investigations by the FBI should be considered a positive and acceptable activity. One nutbag vet - Timothy McVeigh - is used to characterize the hundreds of thousands of honorable vets?

I remember what the Vietnam War vets were subjected to and it wasn’t right. That’s all I was trying to say.

682 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:37pm
683 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:47pm

re: #676 Creeping Eruption

Swamped with ideas?

Isle just hang around and see what happens.

684 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:07:52pm

re: #673 Occasional Reader

Your reference to this mushroom clouds our attempt to make atomic testing puns.

Rad statement, dude.

685 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:04pm

re: #676 Creeping Eruption

More like harboring bitterness.

686 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:28pm

re: #679 BatGuano

I cited Tim Mcveigh earlier. He was kicked out of the army, thought too violent for the militias. He was an aberration, a singular example, a poster boy for America hating leftists, the one icon that the left clings to as an example of right wing extremism when in fact he was a free lance nut job whom nobody claims.

The guy who killed 4 cops in Pitts. a few weeks ago had also been tossed from the Army, I think.

687 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:33pm

re: #669 taxfreekiller

Obama’s only choice is foreign policy ventures.

If he stays in D.C. and attempts to do domestic issues, the fact that
Nancy Pelosi is calling all those shots will be way to clear. So he plays like he is the boss by being out of town talking to other useless big wigs.

Mr. w says the 0 keeps leaving town because he’s never had to live in government housing before, and he can’t tolerate it.

688 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:37pm

re: #659 thebigolddog

So then Judge Nap is the equivalent of a neo-Nazi group in the sense that at very least, neither has any credibility. Maybe I’m just confused.

Then let me help you sort things out: Judge Nap praises and associates with crazy people when he should know better. That severely damages his credibility and makes him a very poor source to use.

689 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:41pm

re: #682 buzzsawmonkey

I’m not so good at small talk, but Eniwetok and I’m there.

It’s only a small jump to Bikini and then to a boob thread……….

690 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:50pm

re: #678 DaddyG

Never mind OR, he’s just fission for laughs.

691 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:55pm

re: #675 calcajun

That’s not an apology. That’s a statement of fact used as justification to act henceforth in a positive manner. That’s not saying “oops-our bad.”

It’s an implicit apology. We used the A-bomb as the least worst way to stop a war we didn’t start; why is Obama bringing it up in that particular context? And never mind that it’s an absolutely common, knee-jerk talking point with the “America Worst!” crowd.

692 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:55pm

re: #684 Van Helsing

Don’t say that—he’ll just glow with pride.

693 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:08:56pm

re: #673 Occasional Reader

Your reference to this mushroom clouds our attempt to make atomic testing puns.

I love surf fission.

694 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:09:02pm

re: #670 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Does that mean you’re lagoon off in frustration?

Nah, I’ll keep digging into my Resevoir for different ones. I am sure I can get some other good ones, Butte not archipeligo.

695 Kragar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:09:05pm

re: #683 Dustyvet

Isle just hang around and see what happens.

Dont worry, the tide will turn

696 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:09:25pm

re: #659 thebigolddog

So then Judge Nap is the equivalent of a neo-Nazi group in the sense that at very least, neither has any credibility. Maybe I’m just confused.

The Judge refers to Alex Jones as “the great”. If that doesn’t worry you, it ought to.

697 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:09:26pm

re: #688 Dark_Falcon

Then let me help you sort things out: Judge Nap praises and associates with crazy people when he should know better. That severely damages his credibility and makes him a very poor source to use.

Yes, but he has a glorious head of hair!

698 Catttt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:09:38pm

Charles, did you get your cable sorted out yet? Yes, I hope.

699 Jonn Lilyea  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:09:42pm

re: #466 SixDegrees

Since when isn’t the VA in the Executive Branch? Geez, grade school Civics.

700 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:04pm

re: #680 Dianna

Sharm? That didn’t address what Wendya wrote there, even though you quoted it.

I see your point, but I also see Wendya’s. We’re going to end up tagged (no matter what Charles says, or you say, or I say) as “prone to extremism.”

Give me liberty or give me death. Extreme stuff. I wonder why todays conservative politicians are so reticent to be plain?

701 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:04pm

re: #691 Occasional Reader

I think you are reading a little too much into it. Let me mull that over, though.

702 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:08pm
703 Kragar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:09pm

The bad thing about pun threads is all the sargassum

/

704 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:09pm

re: #692 calcajun

Don’t say that—he’ll just glow with pride.

I’m keeping an ion you.

705 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:09pm

My Canadian friend needs to lose some weight around his middle area, his belly looks like Hudson’s Bay.

706 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:20pm

re: #689 jcm

It’s only a small jump to Bikini and then to a boob thread……….

There are plenty of boobies on Bikini.

707 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:25pm

re: #689 jcm

It’s only a small jump to Bikini and then to a boob thread……….

Hey, don’t lose your top over this.

708 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:29pm

Great, question the timing. At least you guys could come up with some new cliches.

709 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:38pm

re: #601 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That took no effort atoll.

Does anybody remember Beanie and Cecil? The traveled to No Bikini Atoll. They Diana Saur. Anyone?

710 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:38pm

re: #679 BatGuano

I cited Tim Mcveigh earlier. He was kicked out of the army, thought too violent for the militias. He was an aberration, a singular example, a poster boy for America hating leftists, the one icon that the left clings to as an example of right wing extremism when in fact he was a free lance nut job whom nobody claims.

Um? I think I said that?

I was saying that there were bound to have been local examples, but that generally, returning vets aren’t the first people you worry about.

711 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:39pm

re: #684 Van Helsing

Rad statement, dude.

Does it make me the highest-roentgen’ punster at LGF?

712 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:10:54pm

This crap reminds me of Bill Clinton trying to blame Timothy McVeigh on Rush Limbaugh and talk radio. Everything that the Left claimed about the “oppressive” Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft “regime” is coming to fruition with the Obama/Pelosi/Holder/Napolitano politburo. Too many people here are making excuses for them

If anyone had the misfortune of catching the videos of that little boy named David Shuster and Mr. Rachel Maddow on MSNBC and Cooper Anderson on CNN and their juvenile jokes and sexual innuendos regarding “tea-bagging” (and for the record I never heard anyone involved in the tea party movement use that term), ought to have their eyes opened unless they are willfully blind as to the nature of the viciousness that the Left is and the ruthlessness i which they will protect The Great Leader Obama. As dopey as Pat Robertson can be, I feel zero threat from him but I do fear the influences of the Rev. Wright, and the whole cheer leading MSNBC crew on The Great Leader.

713 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:00pm

I knew I just had to come check out this thread… Let’s see… Geographical puns, followed by nautical ones, topped of with the laundry detergent ones… That, mixed into a discussion of a serious topic and refutation of hasty assumptions in connection with it… Only on LGF!
With that, I am popping open a brewski. This was probably the easiest work day I’ve had here, not counting the “snow-days” back in January.

714 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:08pm
715 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:11pm

re: #705 Dustyvet

Hey, I resemble that remark!

716 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:12pm

re: #679 BatGuano

I cited Tim Mcveigh earlier. He was kicked out of the army, thought too violent for the militias. He was an aberration, a singular example, a poster boy for America hating leftists, the one icon that the left clings to as an example of right wing extremism when in fact he was a free lance nut job whom nobody claims.

I hate it when they cite him as a “Christian” in response to islamic terrorism. McVeigh was just an evil kook. He even made it easy for the cops to grab him up, since he refused to put a license plate on his car (anti-tax/anti-government); that was the original reason he was stopped - for no license plate.

717 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:15pm

re: #705 Dustyvet

My Canadian friend needs to lose some weight around his middle area, his belly looks like Hudson’s Bay.

Hey Dv leave Blue out of this :)

718 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:24pm

re: #672 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

C’mon - Tide; All; Cheer? That’s comedy gold, people!

719 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:30pm

re: #708 Killgore Trout

Great, question the timing. At least you guys could come up with some new cliches.

It the seriousness of the charge that must be investigated………

;-P

720 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:32pm

re: #680 Dianna

Sharm? That didn’t address what Wendya wrote there, even though you quoted it.

I see your point, but I also see Wendya’s. We’re going to end up tagged (no matter what Charles says, or you say, or I say) as “prone to extremism.”

Why does this surprise us? We know the other side doesn’t play fair. Regardless, maybe we should take this as an opportunity. We can clearly state these people aren’t with us, just like we did with VB, and marginalize them.

We understood with the VB think that we could oppose islamization without stooping to their levels. How is this so different? We can defend our liberties without stooping to the level of paulians and stormfronters.

721 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:41pm

re: #702 buzzsawmonkey

Isotope you once, isotope you a thousand times, you spare the rod and spoil the pile.

722 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:11:49pm

re: #656 MrSilverDragon

If I could only work archipeligo into a pun… keep trying, can’t do it.

As the Orthodox would say:
Our key Pelagia didn’t live on an island at all.”

723 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:07pm

re: #702 buzzsawmonkey

I don’t think I can Marshall an atomic reference that hasn’t been used yet—it’s quite a pile.

As the Eagles sang:

You can’t hide
your ionize
and your smile
is a thin disguise..

724 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:13pm

re: #686 Wishing

I didn’t see that. Huh.

725 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:15pm

re: #702 buzzsawmonkey

I don’t think I can Marshall an atomic reference that hasn’t been used yet—it’s quite a pile.

You are saying nuclear puns fizzle?

726 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:17pm

re: #713 Natasha

Prosit!

727 Jonn Lilyea  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:26pm

re: #466 SixDegrees

And, oh, since this is the part you want to discuss now, it was the President and Rahm Emanuel who briefed the VSOs on the plan. Is the President not in the Administration, either?

728 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:26pm

re: #706 Kenneth

There are plenty of boobies on Bikini.

I get excited when I see the word Boobies. Don’t tease me :)

729 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:31pm

re: #676 Creeping Eruption

Swamped with ideas?

And reef with conflicting thoughts.

730 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:33pm

re: #718 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

C’mon - Tide; All; Cheer? That’s comedy gold, people!

That pun thread is washed up

731 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:37pm

re: #709 BatGuano

Does anybody remember Beanie and Cecil? The traveled to No Bikini Atoll. They Diana Saur. Anyone?

Dishonsest John…:)

732 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:37pm

re: #711 Occasional Reader

Does it make me the highest-roentgen’ punster at LGF?

To the core!

733 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:49pm

re: #679 BatGuano

I cited Tim Mcveigh earlier. He was kicked out of the army, thought too violent for the militias. He was an aberration, a singular example, a poster boy for America hating leftists, the one icon that the left clings to as an example of right wing extremism when in fact he was a free lance nut job whom nobody claims.

You have summed it up very nicely. The constant references to McVeigh are tedious & dishonest. He is the exception that proves the rule that the vast majority of vets come home & get on with life.

734 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:50pm

re: #662 Occasional Reader

Here’s my take on the nuclear disarmament movement:

It is profoundly pessimistic and it assumes that human beings can never grow up and be responsible with the power of the nucleus.

I for one think we humans are better than that.

And in the meanwhile, the most moral of us had better have nukes, because the moral retards, of whom there is no short supply at this stage of human history, are trying to get nukes to use.

But Obama, and the peaceniks, are pessimistic fools, and may God preserve us from their folly.

735 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:54pm

re: #725 jcm

Depends on how you tritium-some can be sensitive.

736 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:56pm

re: #723 Occasional Reader

As the Eagles sang:

You can’t hide
your ionize
and your smile
is a thin disguise..

Well, this thread is really decaying…

737 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:12:59pm

re: #708 Killgore Trout

Joke, KT - damn, you’re as bad as I am, today, in the humor challenged department!

738 uberfasiq  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:04pm

***BUT CHARLES*** Why are “Left Wing Extremists” ignored in this report, especially in light of the increase of troops in Afghanistan - for example (first 35 seconds of the video below):

Youtube Video

In an effort to resist the crazed right, we shouldn’t give a pass to those who give a pass to the crazed left.

739 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:04pm

Unlike in europe, American nazis can speak freely.

I say let them!

Let them expose themselves and their vileness for all of us to see that we might rightly keep them on the fringe where they belong.

740 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:07pm

re: #716 Ward Cleaver

I hate it when they cite him as a “Christian” in response to islamic terrorism. McVeigh was just an evil kook. He even made it easy for the cops to grab him up, since he refused to put a license plate on his car (anti-tax/anti-government); that was the original reason he was stopped - for no license plate.

He was an admitted atheist. Not to mention the possible islamic connection to OKC, which is a topic for another day.

741 Catttt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:12pm

re: #728 Erik The Red

I get excited when I see the word Boobies. Don’t tease me :)

Boobies boobies boobies boobies boobies
Boobies boobies boobies boobies boobies
Boobies boobies boobies boobies boobies

742 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:18pm

re: #701 calcajun

I think you are reading a little too much into it. Let me mull that over, though.

If you mullet too much, you may be a redneck.

743 John  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:18pm

I do think the FBI should monitor the malcontents that visit William Ayers’ living room. They’ve actually been known to blow up things, and/or wish they’d blown up more.

744 Rancher  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:19pm

re: #657 calcajun

WHAT? WHERE? WHEN?

Did the Japanese acknowledge their kooky misunderstanding about Pearl Harbor? How about their little faux pas at Nanking?


NANKING MASSACRE — THE JAPANESE VERSIONS

From 1937 to now (1990), the Japanese militarists, the government and the public dealt with the undeniable atrocities committed by the Japanese troops in Nanjing and the rest of Asia in a number of ways. The major waves of Japanese treatment of this dark historical tragedy ranged from total cover-up during the war, confessions and documentation by the Japanese soldiers during the 1950’s and 60’s, minimize of the extent of the Nanjing Massacre during the 70’s and 80’s, official distortion and rewriting of history during the 80’s, and total denial of the occurrence of the Nanjing Massacre by government officials in 1990.
745 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:47pm

re: #728 Erik The Red

Or you might end up in a padded cell like this!

746 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:53pm

re: #689 jcm

It’s only a small jump to Bikini and then to a boob thread……….

I think you just topped out.

747 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:13:56pm

re: #721 calcajun

Isotope you once, isotope you a thousand times, you spare the rod and spoil the pile.

Protons have mass? I didn’t know they were Catholic.

748 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:09pm

re: #605 njoriole

re: 522 Six Degrees


“Innumerable death?” And how often in the last decade have scary “religious right” fanatics from the so-called religious right made death threats against abortion clinic workers? Less than 1% of the number of calls for death of “BushHitler” by “artistes” and International ANSWER “peace” marchers, I’d wager. And how many abortion doctors were assassinated? One that I can recall, about what, 15-20 years ago? We’re not talking about history here, we’re talking (or rather, DHS is, supposedly) about CURRENT threats (and yes Sharmuta, threats, not risks, although I still say it’s a difference without distinction).

But none of that is relevant. Your original gripe was that there weren’t any specifics in the report. There are specific examples of right-wing violence that are easy to come by simply through common knowledge, though; I just grabbed the low-hanging fruit. So again: would including those examples have made any difference?

I’m guessing not to you. When specifics are brought up, you don’t want to hear about them, or - bizarrely, given that it undermines your original argument - you compare them directly to similar examples drawn from the Left’s behavior, and even admit that they are cut from the same cloth.

749 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:11pm

re: #725 jcm

You are saying nuclear puns fizzle?

Indeed. It’s time I split, lest I add to the con-fusion.

750 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:14pm

re: #735 calcajun

Depends on how you tritium-some can be sensitive.

I so tope I don’t offend……

751 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:14pm

re: #718 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

C’mon - Tide; All; Cheer? That’s comedy gold, people!

Your humor is a legend that will last a lunchtime.//

752 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:15pm

re: #710 Dianna

According to TV and Hollywood all returning vets particularly from Vietnam and Iraq are homeless, murderous, psychopaths.

753 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:19pm

re: #743 John

I do think the FBI should monitor the malcontents that visit William Ayers’ living room. They’ve actually been known to blow up things, and/or wish they’d blown up more.

Or run for president.

/white smoke

754 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:20pm

It works better when I remember the link:

755 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:39pm

re: #747 Idle Drifter

Protons have mass? I didn’t know they were Catholic.

They are quark-y that way

756 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:43pm

re: #703 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The bad thing about pun threads is all the sargassum

/

It makes you feel kelpless.

757 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:45pm

re: #746 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I think you just topped out.

I just runaway with things sometimes.

758 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:14:48pm

re: #721 calcajun

Isotope you once, isotope you a thousand times, you spare the rod and spoil the pile.

Indeed, you have to have a Fermi hand. Now, how to break that news to the wife… are you gonna Teller?

759 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:15:04pm

re: #742 Occasional Reader

I wish I had that much hair again.

760 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:15:09pm

re: #725 jcm

You are saying nuclear puns fizzle?

Electronfying!

761 Noam Chumpski  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:15:22pm

re: #605 njoriole

re: 522 Six Degrees


“Innumerable death?” And how often in the last decade have scary “religious right” fanatics from the so-called religious right made death threats against abortion clinic workers? Less than 1% of the number of calls for death of “BushHitler” by “artistes” and International ANSWER “peace” marchers, I’d wager. And how many abortion doctors were assassinated? One that I can recall, about what, 15-20 years ago? We’re not talking about history here, we’re talking (or rather, DHS is, supposedly) about CURRENT threats (and yes Sharmuta, threats, not risks, although I still say it’s a difference without distinction).

Apologies for the OT, but I was curious.

3 bombings and one shooting over the past 10 years, though none of these acts occurring since June, 2001.

Some non-prosecuted arsons, but that doesn’t rule out fraudulent insurance claims.

One prosecuted “attempted” arson in ‘07 (NM), but the man responsible says it wasn’t the abortion clinic, per se, that he was trying to burn down, but that he wanted to prevent his gf from having an abortion the next day. That’s kind of splitting hairs.

It seems that statically, you’re more likely to be killed by an abortion clinic worker driving down the highway than by a religious fanatic bombing a clinic.

Side note: One of those bombings was by Rudolph (also known for his work at the ‘96 Olympics). He’s not technically a part of the religious right - he’s on a plane all by himself. Humble opinion.

762 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:15:25pm

re: #752 Joel

According to TV and Hollywood all returning vets particularly from Vietnam and Iraq are homeless, murderous, psychopaths.

And are played by Bruce Dern in trashy B-movies from the late 70s.

763 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:15:26pm

re: #722 pre-Boomer Marine brat

As the Orthodox would say:
Our key Pelagia didn’t live on an island at all.”

Working ‘Pelagia’ into the atomic pun thread wins it for me.
I surrender.

I assume I’ll have decent food, A/C, and cable in confinement…

764 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:15:42pm

re: #756 Kosh’s Shadow

Makes me want to shoal you the door.

765 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:15:51pm

re: #723 Occasional Reader

As the Eagles sang:

You can’t hide
your ionize
and your smile
is a thin disguise..

How long did that have to Fermi-ent?

766 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:02pm
767 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:07pm

re: #739 Sharmuta

Unlike in europe, American nazis can speak freely.

I say let them!

Let them expose themselves and their vileness for all of us to see that we might rightly keep them on the fringe where they belong.

Most of that (Nazi talk) comes from the Left.

768 Catttt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:11pm

I cannot believe the punny meson this thread.

769 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:11pm

re: #742 Occasional Reader

If you mullet too much, you may be a redneck.

OR there’s a Mr. Foxworthy here who would like to speak to you…

770 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:12pm

re: #764 calcajun

Makes me want to shoal you the door.

How shallow of you

771 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:12pm

re: #751 calcajun

Your humor is a legend that will last a lunchtime.//

I’m totally stealing that line, I laughed hard enough to have the office turn and stare. Upding!

772 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:14pm

re: #710 Dianna

I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to dispute . I got carried away with my hatred of the leftists. I was agreeing with you! :)

773 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:20pm

re: #754 Kenneth

It works better when I remember the link:

I could spend my last days in that room.

774 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:48pm

re: #686 Wishing

The guy who killed 4 cops in Pitts. a few weeks ago had also been tossed from the Army, I think.

You know, it appears that these violent kooks have always been kicked out of the Army, as opposed to being actual, honorable Army veterans. I believe it is significant, in general and in the case of this DHS paper in particular. It is not well written, is extremely vague, and invites misunderstanding. It may be harmless and aimed at Neo-Nazis and KKK and other violent groups, but I do believe they could have picked a better writer for the job.

775 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:16:55pm

re: #740 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

He was an admitted atheist.

“Admitted”, eh?

[hefts plate of food, takes aim, why not!]

776 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:17:03pm

re: #762 Kenneth

And are played by Bruce Dern in trashy B-movies from the late 70s.

Black Sunday was a great movie, IMHO.

777 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:17:11pm

re: #767 Joel

Most of that (Nazi talk) comes from the Left.

This is about the nuts on the right. I’m not going to make excuses for them.

778 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:17:17pm

OT, but speaking of whacked out people:
At work today, we saw the footage from inside Columbine when Harris and Kliebold were doing their murderous thing, and then when they killed themselves.
They were cold, cold hearted bastards.

779 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:17:20pm

re: #758 Occasional Reader

Indeed, you have to have a Fermi hand. Now, how to break that news to the wife… are you gonna Teller?

Should leave that open. High mercy is not expected from her.

780 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:17:32pm

re: #752 Joel

We ARE back in the 70’s! OK, where’s the new “Rockford Files” then? I loved that show.

781 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:17:33pm

re: #773 Erik The Red

I could spend my last days in that room.


I think that would suck. //

782 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:17:53pm

re: #778 Wishing

OT, but speaking of whacked out people:
At work today, we saw the footage from inside Columbine when Harris and Kliebold were doing their murderous thing, and then when they killed themselves.
They were cold, cold hearted bastards.

Where do you work that you would see something like that?

783 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:06pm

re: #699 Jonn Lilyea

Since when isn’t the VA in the Executive Branch? Geez, grade school Civics.

Are you seriously trying to claim that Obama himself ordered this policy be put in place?

Or are you just trying to change the subject now that you’ve lost that argument?

784 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:15pm

re: #780 calcajun

Who can hum that theme song off the top of their head?

785 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:15pm

re: #731 Dustyvet

Dishonsest John…:)

Nya! ah ah!

786 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:17pm

re: #768 Catttt

I cannot believe the punny meson this thread.

What do you call a cat that has just eaten a whole duck?
- A duck filled fatty puss!

What did the cat do when he swallowed some cheese?
- He waited by the mouse hole with baited breath.

What happened when the cat swallowed a coin?
- There was some money in the kitty.

What do you get if you cross a cat with a canary?
- Shredded tweet!

What do cat actors say in a Shakespearean play?
- Tabby or not tabby! That is the question.

What is the only kind of work a weak cat can do?
- Light mouse work

Why did the mother cat put stamps on her kittens?
- Because she wanted to mail the litter

Where did the kittens go on their class trip?
- To a mewseum (!)

What does a cat get from watching too many Mickey Mouse films?
- Disney Spells

Where did the first cats live?
- Purr-sia and Paw-tugal

What do you get if you cross a parakeet with a cat?
- A peeping Tom

Hear about the cat who was a tennis fan?
- He had two brothers in the racket.

787 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:20pm

re: #762 Kenneth

And are played by Bruce Dern in trashy B-movies from the late 70s.

Funny about Vietnam but I see men younger then me claiming to be Vietnam vets. Vietnam, according to the records 2.5 million American servicemen (Army, AIr Force,Marines, Navy) passed through Vietnam from 1961 - 75, yet the number of people claiming to have served there must be 10 million.

788 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:20pm

re: #766 Iron Fist

When people bitch about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I always ask them why do they hate the Japanese so much? If you look at Okinawa as a predictor, we’d have had to kill off the majority of the Japanese in order to take the home islands. We’d have lost a lot of people doing it, but that would have just made us more merciless in grinding them down into dust.

Objectively, Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved a lot of American lives, and that is good enough for me. But they also saved a lot of Japanese lives.

And saved the ones that did survive from becoming slaves in a Soviet colony, like North Korea.

789 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:25pm

re: #723 Occasional Reader

As the Eagles sang:

You can’t hide
your ionize
and your smile pile
is a thin disguise..

I like it better with my change.

790 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:31pm

re: #766 Iron Fist

When people bitch about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I always ask them why do they hate the Japanese so much? If you look at Okinawa as a predictor, we’d have had to kill off the majority of the Japanese in order to take the home islands. We’d have lost a lot of people doing it, but that would have just made us more merciless in grinding them down into dust.

Objectively, Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved a lot of American lives, and that is good enough for me. But they also saved a lot of Japanese lives.

Additionally it change the the concept of warfare. Major powers have not been at war since, instead proxy wars sprung up. In the years after the nuclear bombings the war deaths dropped an order of magnitude.

791 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:18:43pm

re: #738 uberfasiq

***BUT CHARLES*** Why are “Left Wing Extremists” ignored in this report

The same reason Muslim extremists and Mexican druglords aren’t in the report. It wasn’t a report about them. They have their own threat assessments.

792 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:19:00pm

re: #755 Creeping Eruption

They are quark-y that way

Met a couple of those. Total WIMPs.

793 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:19:02pm

re: #720 Sharmuta

I hadn’t noticed that we were? Hello? I’ve seen some evidence - from Lawhawk - that there are some further problems with that DHS report. More problems than were apparent on simply reading it.

At no time have I ever been an extremist, and I’m not prone to viewing with alarm. But I’m not pleased by this report; I don’t understand why it was written; I do not find it even vaguely helpful, because it’s too foggy. Were that report designed to raise paranoia, it could not do a better job.

The FBI is supposed to investigate situations where threats exist. I have absolutely no problem with them doing so, as I said early on. Further, I have no doubt that any group thinking about violence is probably seeking combat veterans.

At this point, a whole bunch of different issues have been conflated. Paulians and Stormfronters are being named in a context that sounds accusatory.

What’s going on here?

794 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:19:13pm

re: #728 Erik The Red

I get excited when I see the word Boobies. Don’t tease me :)

Uh-oh… Do I smell a boobie thread?!

795 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:19:20pm

re: #786 Dustyvet

What do you get when you cross a stream and a creek?
- Wet feet.

796 njoriole  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:19:24pm

Finally, with regard to McVeigh and the horror of OK City, I would recommend reading “The Third Terrorist” by Jayna Davis, a former reporter for KFOR TV in Oklahoma City. Very sobering, and though-provoking.

797 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:19:30pm

re: #780 calcajun

We ARE back in the 70’s! OK, where’s the new “Rockford Files” then? I loved that show.

If we are back int the 70’s can I at least see Kung Fu again on Thursday nights at 9:00 PM?

798 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:19:37pm

re: #780 calcajun

We ARE back in the 70’s! OK, where’s the new “Rockford Files” then? I loved that show.



Burn Notice
is a bit like The Rockford Files.

799 bloodnok  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:20:09pm

re: #784 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who can hum that theme song off the top of their head?

I already was humming it before you even asked the question. It’s one of those themes that never leaves you.

800 brookly red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:20:14pm

re: #752 Joel

According to TV and Hollywood all returning vets particularly from Vietnam and Iraq are homeless, murderous, psychopaths.

one more reason to toss yer TV…

801 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:20:31pm

re: #789 Kosh’s Shadow

I like it better with my change.

Change you can believe in!

802 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:20:35pm

re: #798 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Bruce Campbell IS a lot like James Garner. Yes.

803 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:20:40pm

re: #789 Kosh’s Shadow

I like it better with my change.

I don’t have atomic piles anymore, I treated them with Preparation-H Bomb.

804 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:20:56pm

re: #799 bloodnok

It’s one of those themes that never leaves you.

What is? Back in Black or Don’t fear the Reaper?

805 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:20:58pm

re: #757 jcm

I just runaway with things sometimes.

Just an itsy bitsy teeny weeny bit!

806 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:21:16pm

re: #686 Wishing

Perhaps failure is more of a factor than a returning war hero.

807 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:21:27pm

re: #766 Iron Fist

When people bitch about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I always ask them why do they hate the Japanese so much? If you look at Okinawa as a predictor, we’d have had to kill off the majority of the Japanese in order to take the home islands. We’d have lost a lot of people doing it, but that would have just made us more merciless in grinding them down into dust.

Objectively, Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved a lot of American lives, and that is good enough for me. But they also saved a lot of Japanese lives.

And the death toll from the firebombings was much higher.

808 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:21:37pm

Ok, I’ve had enough of the nuclear puns…

… I’m splitting.

809 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:21:55pm

re: #777 Sharmuta

This is about the nuts on the right. I’m not going to make excuses for them.

The only nuts that are from The Right tend to be David Duke types(most of whom wold be right at home on the Left with its anti Semitism) and the paleocons led by Buchanan and his ilk - again people that would be right at home on the Left as you can see by Buchanan’s appearances on MSNBC.

810 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:08pm

re: #797 Joel

If we are back int the 70’s can I at least see Kung Fu again on Thursday nights at 9:00 PM?

You must close your eyes to see this clearly Grasshopper.

811 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:15pm

re: #776 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Black Sunday was a great movie, IMHO.

I thought Dern was brilliant in ‘Silent Running’.

Hey, they could do a greener remake of that!

812 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:18pm

re: #806 BatGuano

Perhaps failure is more of a factor than a returning war hero.

Exactly: the nuts DIDN’T serve, they got bounced.

813 Kragar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:19pm

re: #766 Iron Fist

When people bitch about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I always ask them why do they hate the Japanese so much? If you look at Okinawa as a predictor, we’d have had to kill off the majority of the Japanese in order to take the home islands. We’d have lost a lot of people doing it, but that would have just made us more merciless in grinding them down into dust.

Objectively, Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved a lot of American lives, and that is good enough for me. But they also saved a lot of Japanese lives.

Also, the part conviently ignored by most people today is that both cities were key military targets in their own right. The like to say the US bombed the cities as civilian targets. Hiroshima was where the entire Southern Defense HQ was based and Nagasaki was the key rail mobilization and munitions manufacturing center for the region. They were prime military targets which would have needed to have been taken out anyway you looked at it if an invasion had been necessary.

814 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:29pm

re: #802 calcajun

Bruce Campbell IS a lot like James Garner. Yes.

All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up! See this? This… is my boomstick! - [continuing nonchalantly] - It’s a twelve-gauge, double-barreled Remington. S-Mart’s top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That’s right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about $109.95. It’s got a walnut stock, cobalt-blue steel, and a hair trigger. That’s right… shop smart: shop S-Mart… You got that?

815 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:32pm

Is there a DHS report which recommends profiling of members of right (or left) wing extremist groups who happen to be:
- illegal immigrants who drive extremely expensive sports cars?
- veterans of foreign armed services?
- 7th degree black belt martial artists?
- members of motorcycle clubs?
- made mafia members?
I guess not, and the reason is probably that there would be no need for such reports.
Yet my guess is that members of any of the above would present at least as great a security risk as USA vets.

It just seems wrong to have singled out US vets, especially in the absence of evidence of any significant increase in the associated security risk.

816 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:42pm

re: #787 Joel

Funny about Vietnam but I see men younger then me claiming to be Vietnam vets. Vietnam, according to the records 2.5 million American servicemen (Army, AIr Force,Marines, Navy) passed through Vietnam from 1961 - 75, yet the number of people claiming to have served there must be 10 million.


Kinda like Woodstock.

817 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:44pm

re: #777 Sharmuta

Your email from a few days ago just showed up for some reason. Send a response when you get a chance.

818 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:47pm

I can’t make any more nuclear weapons puns, since I have a bunch of work due in a Minute,Man. Later.

819 Catttt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:51pm

God help me - I have to go shopping. /drags paws - holds onto table leg.

820 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:22:54pm

re: #763 Van Helsing

Working ‘Pelagia’ into the atomic pun thread wins it for me.
I surrender.

I assume I’ll have decent food, A/C, and cable in confinement…

Naw, that came from the “island” pun-thread.

821 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:06pm

re: #803 Occasional Reader

I don’t have atomic piles anymore, I treated them with Preparation-H Bomb.

Was that part of the Alan Parsons Project?

822 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:10pm

CATalyst for a successful future?

823 Rancher  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:11pm

re: #734 Ojoe

Here’s my take on the nuclear disarmament movement:

It is profoundly pessimistic and it assumes that human beings can never grow up and be responsible with the power of the nucleus.

I for one think we humans are better than that…

I wish I could believe that, what I firmly believe is that sooner or later some extremist, not country, is going to nuke some city. I will bet my last dollar that it won’t be anyone in the current DHS’s list of potential extremists.

824 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:16pm

re: #811 Van Helsing

I thought Dern was brilliant in ‘Silent Running’.

Hey, they could do a greener remake of that!

Wall-E?

825 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:17pm

re: #814 Honorary Yooper

Poetry. Sheer poetry.

826 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:23pm

re: #809 Joel

The only nuts that are from The Right tend to be David Duke types(most of whom wold be right at home on the Left with its anti Semitism) and the paleocons led by Buchanan and his ilk - again people that would be right at home on the Left as you can see by Buchanan’s appearances on MSNBC.

That’s why my history professor said that the political spectrum shouldn’t be viewed as a straight line - it should be viewed as a horseshoe, with the extreme right & extreme left almost touching.

827 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:39pm

re: #813 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Also, the part conviently ignored by most people today is that both cities were key military targets in their own right. The like to say the US bombed the cities as civilian targets. Hiroshima was where the entire Southern Defense HQ was based and Nagasaki was the key rail mobilization and munitions manufacturing center for the region. They were prime military targets which would have needed to have been taken out anyway you looked at it if an invasion had been necessary.

Should the nucs not been available, LeMay would have done it the way they did Tokyo. The tolls arguably would have been higher.

828 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:47pm

re: #797 Joel

If we are back int the 70’s can I at least see Kung Fu again on Thursday nights at 9:00 PM?

That brings me back to my freshman year. We had the only TV on the floor, and it was an old B&W set that my roommate had, and I fixed. (B&W sets are now considered torture by the ACLU)
We’d have half the floor in our room watching Fung Yu, as we called it.

829 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:49pm

re: #716 Ward Cleaver

Yeah, the “Christian” blood libel. They are disparate,

830 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:23:50pm

re: #796 njoriole

Finally, with regard to McVeigh and the horror of OK City, I would recommend reading “The Third Terrorist” by Jayna Davis, a former reporter for KFOR TV in Oklahoma City. Very sobering, and though-provoking.

About as thought provoking as Loose Change or a Jerome Corsi book. No thanks, I’ve had my fill of “it makes you think” from Conspiracy Theorists.

831 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:24:12pm

re: #793 Dianna

At this point, a whole bunch of different issues have been conflated. Paulians and Stormfronters are being named in a context that sounds accusatory.

What’s going on here?

Entryism. The extremists are trying to mainstream.

As for you not being pleased- well I’m not either. But my position hasn’t changed since we discovered this problem with the europeans. I don’t want fascists in my foxhole.

832 Kragar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:24:14pm

re: #814 Honorary Yooper

All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up! See this? This… is my boomstick! - [continuing nonchalantly] - It’s a twelve-gauge, double-barreled Remington. S-Mart’s top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That’s right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about $109.95. It’s got a walnut stock, cobalt-blue steel, and a hair trigger. That’s right… shop smart: shop S-Mart… You got that?

Good? Bad? I’m the guy with the gun.

833 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:24:19pm

re: #818 Occasional Reader

I can’t make any more nuclear weapons puns, since I have a bunch of work due in a Minute,Man. Later.

Better goTri to make a dent in it

834 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:24:31pm

re: #813 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

When will Japan pay our soldiers for all the slave labor they performed? How about some reparations for the Death March?

835 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:24:39pm

re: #829 BatGuano

Yeah, the “Christian” blood libel. They are disparate,

Fletcher Christian?…)

836 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:24:59pm

re: #812 Wishing

Exactly: the nuts DIDN’T serve, they got bounced.

I tried to say the same thing earlier, but you expressed it so much better!

837 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:25:04pm

re: #805 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Just an itsy bitsy teeny weeny bit!

Itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka-dot bikini?

838 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:25:09pm

re: #809 Joel

The only nuts that are from The Right tend to be David Duke types(most of whom wold be right at home on the Left with its anti Semitism) and the paleocons led by Buchanan and his ilk - again people that would be right at home on the Left as you can see by Buchanan’s appearances on MSNBC.

And maybe that’s the sort of people this report pertains to.

839 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:25:35pm

re: #835 Dustyvet

go look for bounty somewhere else.

840 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:25:36pm

re: #752 Joel

According to TV and Hollywood all returning vets particularly from Vietnam and Iraq are homeless, murderous, psychopaths.

Apparently, Penn State has the same view.

A special treat from Penn State’s instructional series on how to cope with “Worrisome Student Behaviors.” It seems our heroine’s been saddled with one of those ill-educated military types and, try as she might to reason with him, his bestial rage keeps getting in the way. Whatever is she to do? Watch and learn, my friends, in case you too are confronted by one of these menacing ne’er-do-wells.
841 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:25:43pm

re: #794 Natasha

Uh-oh… Do I smell a boobie thread?!

More My Style
NSFW

842 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:26:02pm

re: #810 DaddyG

You must close your eyes to see this clearly Grasshopper.

As quickly as you can, snatch the pebble from my hand.

Great series!

843 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:26:02pm

re: #813 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Also, the part conviently ignored by most people today is that both cities were key military targets in their own right. The like to say the US bombed the cities as civilian targets. Hiroshima was where the entire Southern Defense HQ was based and Nagasaki was the key rail mobilization and munitions manufacturing center for the region. They were prime military targets which would have needed to have been taken out anyway you looked at it if an invasion had been necessary.

There’s a good comic out there called Storming Paradise about what would have happened if the A-bomb failed & we had to invade Japan. It’s written by noted conservative writer Chuck Dixon. Issue #5 is due out next month. You should check it out.

844 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:26:26pm

re: #761 Noam Chumpski

Apologies for the OT, but I was curious.

3 bombings and one shooting over the past 10 years, though none of these acts occurring since June, 2001.

Some non-prosecuted arsons, but that doesn’t rule out fraudulent insurance claims.

One prosecuted “attempted” arson in ‘07 (NM), but the man responsible says it wasn’t the abortion clinic, per se, that he was trying to burn down, but that he wanted to prevent his gf from having an abortion the next day. That’s kind of splitting hairs.

It seems that statically, you’re more likely to be killed by an abortion clinic worker driving down the highway than by a religious fanatic bombing a clinic.

Side note: One of those bombings was by Rudolph (also known for his work at the ‘96 Olympics). He’s not technically a part of the religious right - he’s on a plane all by himself. Humble opinion.

I don’t see how the frequency of such events has any bearing on what I’ve said. The point is that there isn’t an absence of examples of right-wing violence.

Your point about statistics is meaningless. There is a far greater chance of being injured in an auto accident than there is by any sort of violent crime, no matter who the perpetrator is. The whole point here is on the perpetrator, not who they hurt or how often.

Are you seriously trying to deny that the right hasn’t produced ideologically motivated violence? Ever? And that there is no threat of such violence? If so, you’re being utterly unrealistic.

845 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:26:30pm

re: #752 Joel

According to TV and Hollywood all returning vets particularly from Vietnam and Iraq are homeless, murderous, psychopaths.


I remember the good old DFays right after 9/11 when the troops were admired even by the Left.
Chris Matthews even tried to cash in on it claiming the he was kind of like a Viet Nam vet because he was in the Peace Corps at the time.
Horrors, he and another guy had to drive to the airport once & you know there could have been Rebels.

846 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:26:37pm

re: #811 Van Helsing

Thought that was Mike and the Mechanics…

Silent Running

847 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:27:00pm

re: #834 calcajun

When will Japan pay our soldiers for all the slave labor they performed? How about some reparations for the Death March?

I gave a donation to a dignified old vet a couple of years back sitting out front of a store. As he handed me a wire and cloth poppy I looked up and saw the edge of his cap. It said Bataan. I couldn’t even begin to imagine what he had lived through and all I could say was thank you.

848 Wishing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:27:15pm

re: #836 Natasha

I tried to say the same thing earlier, but you expressed it so much better!

Exactly and i updinged you!

849 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:27:26pm

re: #837 Kosh’s Shadow

Itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka-dot bikini?

Yep.
Was dating myself.

850 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:27:30pm

re: #787 Joel

Funny about Vietnam but I see men younger then me claiming to be Vietnam vets. Vietnam, according to the records 2.5 million American servicemen (Army, AIr Force,Marines, Navy) passed through Vietnam from 1961 - 75, yet the number of people claiming to have served there must be 10 million.

And they were all Special Forces or SEALs.

851 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:27:52pm

re: #841 Erik The Red

More My Style
NSFW

Depends on where you work and what you do… being in charge of the network has its advantages… ;)

852 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:27:54pm

re: #820 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Naw, that came from the “island” pun-thread.

It started with the ‘atomic’ islands.

I still expect decent food, A/C, and cable.
And internet, too.

853 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:28:19pm

re: #841 Erik The Red Oh crud. I just rememberd what NSFW means. Time to clean the cache.

=8-o

854 Lincolntf  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:28:45pm

OT-
I hate chain “family” restaurants. I won’t name names but you know the ones. They all annoy me and the food is not good.
But, I’ve been tempted by a “Texas Land and Cattle” that is only a mile or so from my house.
Anyone have any personal dining experience they care to share in exchange for updings? (We’re going out tonight either way, so I already have a fallback spot in mind.)

855 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:28:59pm

re: #849 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yep.
Was dating myself.

Careful, first you start dating yourself, then you begin engaging yourself. You need to stop before you marry yourself.
;-)

856 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:29:09pm

re: #838 Sharmuta

And maybe that’s the sort of people this report pertains to.

Yeah and if you believe that ….. They are trying to lump legitimate dissent with extremists when a lot of Obamabots are the ones who are the extremists. Don’t make excuses for this pathetic and incompetent administration that cannot even give a decent gift that works to the Prime Minister of our closest ally. Even the French think that The One is vapid.

857 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:29:11pm

re: #850 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And they were all Special Forces or SEALs.


Or winter soldiers. *spit*

858 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:29:23pm

re: #841 Erik The Red

LOL… I knew that. Tried to keep it clean!

859 Catttt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:29:30pm

Linking an Atomic Kitten video would be a natural on this thread, but I really dislike Atomic Kitten’s stuff, so I’m not gonna.

860 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:29:49pm

re: #852 Van Helsing

It started with the ‘atomic’ islands.

I still expect decent food, A/C, and cable.
And internet, too.

The prison will have a well-stocked legal library too.
I’m sure you’ll find that very appealing.

861 astronmr20  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:29:52pm

Breaking:

Treasury department issues emergency recall of all US dollars:

theonion.com

862 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:29:55pm

Ok, I’m leaving and this time I mean it. You people all behave, or I’m sending Nancy to deal with you!

Play nice.

863 Proximate  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:30:11pm

re: #542 jwb7605

(e) not read in total by maybe 90% of the bloggers/commenters and
(f) has been misread/misinterpreted/exaggerated by the “other 90%”.

Can we all stop ascribing functional illiteracy to everyone we disagree with? I’ve read that idiotic report about 3 times more than I wanted to. I understood it. I’ve read similar reports before.

Compare this report to a left wing extremism report done just before Napolitano became secretary:

The vaunted “Left-Wing Extremism” report

Specific threats. Specific groups. Lack of vagueness. No broad brush painting participation in the environmental movement as worrying.

Excuse the suspicious timing. Excuse the high-level intervention. Excuse the vagueness. Excuse casting suspicion on conservatives and veterans. Excuse the entire administration… BUT

The end result of this exercise was an utter failure to warn law enforcement in a useful way about specific threats, and at the same time to undermine the credibility of DHS. It is an exercise in incompetence, which is exactly what I’ve come to expect from this administration.

I wouldn’t advise defending incompetence, ‘tisn’t prudent.

864 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:30:24pm

re: #845 opnion

Wow the Peace Corps, that must have been some dangerous work! Almost as dangers as the winter where I got a temporary job at the local post office for Christmas.

865 Buck  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:30:24pm

re: #538 thebigolddog

I like that philosophy. It makes life a lot simpler. I won’t have to waste any time considering opinions of people with whom I can find a major disagreement any more.

So, I just called my Doc and canceled my surgery next week. When he asked why, I said it was becuase he thinks Obama is a “great man” and therefore, none of his opinion matter to me any longer.

You expose yourself when you make an example that tries to compare as equals Alex Jones with Obama.

866 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:30:35pm

re: #858 Natasha

LOL… I knew that. Tried to keep it clean!

I normally keep that for the LNDT but you started it. :)

867 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:30:43pm

re: #855 Honorary Yooper

Careful, first you start dating yourself, then you begin engaging yourself. You need to stop before you marry yourself.
;-)

It’s my Constitutional right!

868 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:31:10pm

re: #814 Honorary Yooper

Groovy.

869 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:31:11pm

re: #855 Honorary Yooper

Careful, first you start dating yourself, then you begin engaging yourself. You need to stop before you marry yourself.
;-)

heh
I began to add a caveat, to head off such rejoinders … but then … *grin*

870 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:31:19pm

re: #862 Kenneth

Ok, I’m leaving and this time I mean it. You people all behave, or I’m sending Nancy to deal with you!

Play nice.

She looks like sh is about to go into a Mapplethorpe photo shoot. [shudder}

871 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:31:27pm

re: #827 jcm

Should the nucs not been available, LeMay would have done it the way they did Tokyo. The tolls arguably would have been higher.

I went to Smithsonian and saw Enola Gay. the tour guide mentioned the nut that tried to splash red ink on it and IIRC he also mentioned a Japanese official that thanked the US for using the atomic bombs instead of invading.

He knew that the cost would have been more horrific than anything every seen.

872 Catttt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:31:41pm

I have Fox on - haven’t watched it much lately. The commercials are depressing. Apparently, I’m an elderly, unwell tax cheat who needs to chop veggies up a lot.

873 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:31:43pm

re: #849 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yep.
Was dating myself.

Nope C14 nope that won’t work, lets see…. Rubidium-strontium, yeah that’ll give us the correct range…..

/;-P

874 Jonn Lilyea  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:31:53pm

re: #296 Charles

Sorry, Charles, but the reference to “the willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups” was in reference to the 90s, not in regards to now or in the future.

875 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:32:03pm

re: #738 uberfasiq

***BUT CHARLES*** Why are “Left Wing Extremists” ignored in this report

Because it’s a report specifically about the threat of right-wing violence. Government agencies produce tightly constrained reports like this by the truckload on a daily basis. I think it’s a metric of productivity, given that the government can’t measure their productivity through traditional means like profit versus expenditures.

876 Kragar  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:32:07pm

re: #850 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And they were all Special Forces or SEALs.

Had a guy I worked with tell us he was a .40 cal gunner on a Hummer with the Air Force during the 1st Gulf war. This was before he realized 6 of us in the office were all USMC veterans.

877 astronmr20  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:32:15pm

re: #872 Catttt

I have Fox on - haven’t watched it much lately. The commercials are depressing. Apparently, I’m an elderly, unwell tax cheat who needs to chop veggies up a lot.

/

Slap chop!

Yes, the fox advertising is depressing…

878 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:32:16pm

re: #853 DaddyG

Oh crud. I just rememberd what NSFW means. Time to clean the cache.

=8-o

that sounds dirtier than it should.

879 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:32:24pm

re: #860 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The prison will have a well-stocked legal library too.
I’m sure you’ll find that very appealing.

And a bar?

880 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:32:52pm

re: #850 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And they were all Special Forces or SEALs.

Soon I will see some old fart panhandling on the subways claiming to be the oldest surviving Civil War veteran.

881 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:32:58pm

re: #870 Creeping Eruption

She looks like sh is about to go into a Mapplethorpe photo shoot. [shudder}

I was gonna downding for the mere mention of Mapplethorpe, but the shudder moved it to an upding.

882 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:33:15pm

re: #873 jcm

Nope C14 nope that won’t work, lets see…. Rubidium-strontium, yeah that’ll give us the correct range…..

/;-P

( … hmmm … why am I now glowing in the dark … ? )

883 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:33:30pm

re: #829 BatGuano

Yeah, the “Christian” blood libel. They are disparate,


I mean desperate. Is anyone monitoring my spelling?

884 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:33:36pm

re: #876 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had a guy I worked with tell us he was a .40 cal gunner on a Hummer with the Air Force during the 1st Gulf war. This was before he realized 6 of us in the office were all USMC veterans.

If he wants to hang out with pussies, that’s his problem.
/The Great Santini

885 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:33:43pm

re: #772 BatGuano

I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to dispute . I got carried away with my hatred of the leftists. I was agreeing with you! :)

To quote someone well upthread:

We had a violent agreement!

886 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:33:58pm

re: #881 MrSilverDragon

I was gonna downding for the mere mention of Mapplethorpe, but the shudder moved it to an upding.

LOL. So what does that say about you to know (1) downding and (2) to shudder?!

887 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:13pm

re: #657 calcajun

WHAT? WHERE? WHEN?

Did the Japanese acknowledge their kooky misunderstanding about Pearl Harbor? How about their little faux pas at Nanking?

Can you not just let bygones be bygones?

888 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:16pm

re: #879 Van Helsing

And a bar?

No, that’s what they pass once they get their law degree.

889 Noam Chumpski  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:23pm

re: #844 SixDegrees

I don’t see how the frequency of such events has any bearing on what I’ve said. The point is that there isn’t an absence of examples of right-wing violence.

Your point about statistics is meaningless. There is a far greater chance of being injured in an auto accident than there is by any sort of violent crime, no matter who the perpetrator is. The whole point here is on the perpetrator, not who they hurt or how often.

Are you seriously trying to deny that the right hasn’t produced ideologically motivated violence? Ever? And that there is no threat of such violence? If so, you’re being utterly unrealistic.

It’s evident that you’ve misunderstood my post and the reason for my posting it as well as my tongue-in-cheek reference to Rudolph and my “joke” about statistics.

Try reading it again with the assumption that I’m not talking to you directly and it won’t seem so offensive. Maybe.

890 sngnsgt  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:32pm

re: #882 pre-Boomer Marine brat

( … hmmm … why am I now glowing in the dark … ? )

It’s your radiant personality.

891 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:33pm

re: #868 Idle Drifter

Groovy.

Gimme some sugar.

892 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:33pm

re: #847 DaddyG

Read Donald Knox; “Death March”. It’s all first-hand accounts. Harrowing.

893 njoriole  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:35pm

re: 748 SixDegrees

But none of that is relevant. Your original gripe was that there weren’t any specifics in the report. There are specific examples of right-wing violence that are easy to come by simply through common knowledge, though; I just grabbed the low-hanging fruit. So again: would including those examples have made any difference?
I’m guessing not to you. When specifics are brought up, you don’t want to hear about them, or - bizarrely, given that it undermines your original argument - you compare them directly to similar examples drawn from the Left’s behavior, and even admit that they are cut from the same cloth.


Nice straw man you got there, Six! No, my original gripe was not that there weren’t any specifics in the report. (Honestly, where did you get that take on my post?) My gripe was - and is - with the fact that a serious issue with regard to public safety has been co opted to serve the never-ending political campaign of these people, who seem to be playing for keeps. If only they care as much about truly heading off the terrorists as they do about trying to end the Republican Party as a political force, I think we could all sleep soundly.

894 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:48pm

re: #853 DaddyG

Oh crud. I just rememberd what NSFW means. Time to clean the cache.

=8-o

That might not help you. Many work places could still find the the link you clicked. I’d recommend you be ready to confess if asked about this. Don’t try to hide it, the cover-up usually gets you in more trouble than the initial offense.

895 Jonn Lilyea  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:34:49pm

re: #783 SixDegrees

Yeah, you need to read up on the subject. Obama and Emanuel briefed it to the VSOs in the White House - I don’t know how how more Administration you can get. And the VA is in the Executive Branch, jeez. I haven’t lost any argument - pay attention.

896 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:03pm

re: #883 BatGuano

I mean desperate. Is anyone monitoring my spelling?

Not me. Not my day.

897 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:05pm

re: #846 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thought that was Mike and the Mechanics…

Silent Running

re: #864 Joel

Wow the Peace Corps, that must have been some dangerous work! Almost as dangers as the winter where I got a temporary job at the local post office for Christmas.

You worked at the post office. Dang you are probably on a watch list for potential violence now. //

898 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:06pm

re: #879 Van Helsing

And a bar?

Of course.
Ask one of the guards when you get there.
He’ll point you tort it.

899 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:13pm

re: #874 Jonn Lilyea

Sorry, Charles, but the reference to “the willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups” was in reference to the 90s, not in regards to now or in the future.

Yes, it was. Please note:

The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups in the 1990’s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.

900 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:15pm

re: #880 Joel

Soon I will see some old fart panhandling on the subways claiming to be the oldest surviving Civil War veteran.

“Fought with Lee - She Kicked Me Out.”

901 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:22pm

re: #850 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And they were all Special Forces or SEALs.

Fake sons of bitches stealing others’ valor. But, it is actually a crime to make false claims about one’s military service and awards.
The Rangers are really cracking down hardcore on the impostors. They make it a point to track them down and expose them.

902 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:30pm

re: #878 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

that sounds dirtier than it should.

t least I’m not defragging.

903 calcajun  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:52pm

re: #887 J.D.

I DO want to bicker ‘n argue ‘bout who killed who.

904 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:35:57pm

re: #886 Creeping Eruption

LOL. So what does that say about you to know (1) downding and (2) to shudder?!

That sometimes I wish my head was a vacuum.

905 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:36:20pm

re: #876 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had a guy I worked with tell us he was a .40 cal gunner on a Hummer with the Air Force during the 1st Gulf war. This was before he realized 6 of us in the office were all USMC veterans.

[ducking back in for a moment]

And I was at a bar once with a bunch of friends, and this one friend of a friend claimed to have been on a Bradley crew in GWI. Mentioned how much he loved the SAW, “which is a fifty caliber weapon”. I didn’t need to be a USMC vet to debunk that one.

906 Jonn Lilyea  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:36:42pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Nice.

907 jcm  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:36:43pm

re: #871 Van Helsing

I went to Smithsonian and saw Enola Gay. the tour guide mentioned the nut that tried to splash red ink on it and IIRC he also mentioned a Japanese official that thanked the US for using the atomic bombs instead of invading.

He knew that the cost would have been more horrific than anything every seen.

They’ve released some of the Operation Downfall (Japanese Invasion), Olympic (Kyūshū) and Cornet (Honshū) planning and estimates. Blood chilling stuff. Historically when you look at Olympic’s underestimation of the number of Japanese troops on Kyūshū, it’s even more horrifying.

It leaves no doubt as to the decision Truman made.

908 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:36:44pm

re: #859 Catttt

Linking an Atomic Kitten video would be a natural on this thread, but I really dislike Atomic Kitten’s stuff, so I’m not gonna.

Please tell me…

909 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:00pm
910 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:02pm

re: #897 DaddyG

At least I did not go postal. I had an interesting co-worker who showed me the ropes. A rather corpulent fellow with a wicked laugh who lived on the Upper West Side of Manhattan - name of Newman.

911 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:17pm

re: #901 Natasha


The Rangers are really cracking down hardcore on the impostors. They make it a point to track them down and expose them.

Who’d want to pretend to be a Ranger?
/

912 KingKenrod  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:19pm

I think the document was rushed for a combination of political and legitimate law enforcement reasons, mostly so that local law enforcement could be alerted to extremists attending the tea parties. DHS knew the tea parties would attract these groups and were growing in size and wanted this document out in time.

The key thing is that even though this document was in the works for some time, it was still being edited very recently - it mentions the Pennsylvania cop shooting incident, which happened first week of April. Obviously the document was still being edited, and the concerns of civil liberties lawyers could have been included if the DHS wanted to include them.

913 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:21pm

re: #835 Dustyvet

Let us not get into literary allusions, I am border-line illiterate. Although I believe one of the authors was a WW1 pilot.

914 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:39pm

re: #874 Jonn Lilyea

Sorry, Charles, but the reference to “the willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups” was in reference to the 90s, not in regards to now or in the future.

It claims the situations are similar. Furthermore, it’s written in plain English. If understanding single sentences is that difficult for you, help is available.

915 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:47pm

re: #864 Joel

Wow the Peace Corps, that must have been some dangerous work! Almost as dangers as the winter where I got a temporary job at the local post office for Christmas.

Seriously, Matthews was trying to boot strap himself onto the then popularity of the military. He made himself sound like Rambo of the Peace Corps.

916 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:53pm

re: #686 Wishing

The guy who killed 4 cops in Pitts. a few weeks ago had also been tossed from the Army, I think.

So surely that was mentioned in the report. That the Army had tossed them out, so that might be a group that bears watching.

917 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:37:57pm

re: #866 Erik The Red

I normally keep that for the LNDT but you started it. :)

Tee-hee-hee! An Early Afternoon Drinking Thread! That’s what you get when the Commander lets a goofy 2LT get off work early.
/snicker… snort…

918 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:38:02pm

re: #907 jcm

Honshū

Gesundheit.

(BBIAB)

919 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:38:13pm

re: #894 Dark_Falcon Thanks but I’m ok. I’ve clicked other dumb things in the past and no one has said anything. I don’t think they worry unless they start seeing patterns. I agree that truth is the best option however.

920 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:39:08pm

re: #905 Occasional Reader

[ducking back in for a moment]

And I was at a bar once with a bunch of friends, and this one friend of a friend claimed to have been on a Bradley crew in GWI. Mentioned how much he loved the SAW, “which is a fifty caliber weapon”. I didn’t need to be a USMC vet to debunk that one.

Are some guys dicks so small that they need to be a pretend war vet?

921 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:39:10pm

re: #897 DaddyG

You worked at the post office. Dang you are probably on a watch list for potential violence now. //

Probably a great shot!

922 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:39:12pm

re: #885 Dianna

That’s good! I will use that sometime without attribution!

923 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:39:15pm

re: #766 Iron Fist

When people bitch about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I always ask them why do they hate the Japanese so much? If you look at Okinawa as a predictor, we’d have had to kill off the majority of the Japanese in order to take the home islands. We’d have lost a lot of people doing it, but that would have just made us more merciless in grinding them down into dust.

Objectively, Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved a lot of American lives, and that is good enough for me. But they also saved a lot of Japanese lives.

I was watching something on the military channel a few days ago about Okinawa. In 1945 when they were planning the mainland invasion, General MacArthur was anticipating (very optimistically) that the invasion of Japan and the war would not be over until well into 1946, closer to 1947.

People were already getting tired of the war, I cant see how well the public would have put up with the extremely high casualties that the invasion would have resulted in for a prolonged period of time. It was likely going to take longer than the optimistic timetable and probably would have resulted in us winning but getting less than an unconditional surrender. A negotiated end to the war would have resulted.

A lot of war criminals would have escaped justice in that case I’m sure. It would not have just been the Emperor getting off scot free.

924 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:39:21pm

bbl

925 SixDegrees  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:39:24pm

re: #872 Catttt

I have Fox on - haven’t watched it much lately. The commercials are depressing. Apparently, I’m an elderly, unwell tax cheat who needs to chop veggies up a lot.

The whole population is aging. Expect to see lots more ads touting regularity.

I see they’re already trying to rebrand prunes in various new and interesting ways.

926 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:39:39pm

re: #899 Charles

You and yer stinkin’ facts.

927 BatGuano  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:40:15pm

re: #896 Ward Cleaver

Slacker.

928 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:40:21pm

re: #915 opnion

Seriously, Matthews was trying to boot strap himself onto the then popularity of the military. He made himself sound like Rambo of the Peace Corps.

/Mathews looks like a “strap-on” kind of guy.

929 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:40:35pm

re: #917 Natasha

Tee-hee-hee! An Early Afternoon Drinking Thread! That’s what you get when the Commander lets a goofy 2LT get off work early.
/snicker… snort…

It’s 21h40 here. I am well into a bottle of scotch :)

930 Lincolntf  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:40:39pm

No “Texas Land and Cattle” reviews? Damn you healthy eaters!

931 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:41:03pm

re: #849 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yep.
Was dating myself.

TMI

932 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:41:11pm

re: #911 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Who’d want to pretend to be a Ranger?
/

LMAO Not THOSE Rangers, you goof! The Army Rangers!
/*sends BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey a beer*/

933 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:41:18pm

re: #908 CyanSnowHawk

Please tell me…

I just made my own LOLcat last night from a picture of our dearly departed kitteh.

For teh Ladeez

934 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:41:27pm

re: #915 opnion

Seriously, Matthews was trying to boot strap himself onto the then popularity of the military. He made himself sound like Rambo of the Peace Corps.

There was a time when Matthews (before his alcoholism I suspect kicked in) was one of the more thoughtful and fair liberal pundits. His book Kennedy and Nixon” The Rivalry that Shaped America was excellent and was actually fair and balanced to both Kennedy and Nixon. Then when the run up to the Iraq war was coming he went off the deep end and now he literally spews spit whenever he talks.

935 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:41:48pm

re: #911 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

The Devil you say.

936 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #929 Erik The Red

It’s 21h40 here. I am well into a bottle of scotch :)

It’s only 1438 on a fabulous, warm sunny afternoon here. Cheers!

937 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:42:36pm

re: #926 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You and yer stinkin’ facts.

Fact check is a bitch on LGF.

938 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:42:38pm

re: #923 ArchangelMichael

Different times. The media wasn’t against the war and people were real fond of the idea of killing more Japs.

That said, I’m more than pleased with the outcome of history. I believe there is a karmic price to be paid for the kind of killing we would have set upon them. I’m glad it was not necessary.

939 Rancher  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:42:48pm

re: #901 Natasha

Fake sons of bitches stealing others’ valor. But, it is actually a crime to make false claims about one’s military service and awards.
The Rangers are really cracking down hardcore on the impostors. They make it a point to track them down and expose them.

Fake Marines are so easy to bust. It’s a small Corp, only two boot camps, we all know our Marine Corp history, every Marine knows our birthday, you really have to study to pull it off.

940 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:43:25pm

re: #933 DaddyG

What a beautiful cat! I am sorry she is no longer with you.

941 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:43:44pm

re: #930 Lincolntf

No “Texas Land and Cattle” reviews? Damn you healthy eaters!

The Cattle was tasty.. The Land not so much..
/I say go for it..It’s fun to try out new places…

942 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:43:53pm

re: #937 Erik The Red

Fact check is a bitch on LGF.

/Never seen her NIC. Does she post often?

943 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:43:54pm

re: #930 Lincolntf

I kind of like those kinds of places (long as they have vegetarian choices). Was in a Omaha Beef Company restaurant (in Omaha, Nebraska [IIRC]). Asked waitress what she recommended for a vegetarian.

She said, “I recommend he goes outside and reads the building.”

She got a gigantic tip from me. I loved her. She was a hoot!

944 Rancher  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:44:26pm

re: #909 Iron Fist
You’re forgetting the Russian nukes, I think some of those are probably in the hands of the Russian Mafia already.

945 opnion  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:44:30pm

re: #928 Creeping Eruption

/Mathews looks like a “strap-on” kind of guy.

He gets that special tingle & then straps on.

946 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:44:48pm

re: #935 lawhawk

Some people can’t even Wing it.

947 callahan23  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:45:08pm

re: #931 Kosh’s Shadow

TMI


‘Three Mile Island’ or ‘Too Much Information’ ?

948 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:45:58pm

re: #940 Natasha

What a beautiful cat! I am sorry she is no longer with you.

Thank you. She was a pistol her first couple of years in the house but she mellowed. Unfortunately she got some bad kitty food and passed away. She is resting beneath a beautiful native crabapple with our first and favorite kitty George. We just adopted a new Maine Coon who looks like a giant tabby. He’s somewhat anti-social right now but we believe he was abused and needs time to get acclimated.

949 Sharmuta  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:46:00pm

re: #856 Joel

Yeah and if you believe that ….. They are trying to lump legitimate dissent with extremists when a lot of Obamabots are the ones who are the extremists. Don’t make excuses for this pathetic and incompetent administration that cannot even give a decent gift that works to the Prime Minister of our closest ally. Even the French think that The One is vapid.

I’m just trying to avoid making excuses for nazis.

950 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:47:01pm

re: #947 callahan23

‘Three Mile Island’ or ‘Too Much Information’ ?

Too much information - about “dating myself” with reference to a tiny bikini.

951 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:47:17pm
952 Dianna  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:47:34pm

re: #831 Sharmuta

Entryism. The extremists are trying to mainstream.

As for you not being pleased- well I’m not either. But my position hasn’t changed since we discovered this problem with the europeans. I don’t want fascists in my foxhole.

Oh, man.

Slow down.

No one wants to share their foxhole with fascists. However (I think I shall bold that if I need to repeat myself), this is not about “entryism.” This is about conflation, an issue that rapidly turns into “divide and conquer.”

Charles has never - not once - tolerated white supremacists or their ideology on this site. Those of us who have been here for any length of time know that, and I do not believe anyone could hide that kind of twisted thinking for long.

As for the Paul-bots…they’ve been routed, for the most part.

So…what entryism? Finding this report (as I do) extraordinarily badly put together, and not useful for its stated purpose suddenly makes for “entryism”?

If that’s where this discussion is headed, we’ve lost our minds.

The notion that the FBI might be watching certain groups with violent ideology doesn’t bother me, provided they’re acting on evidence. The thought that those groups (right and left and just freakin’ nuts) might be trying to find veterans doesn’t surprise me. I’ll be interested when there are some arrests; until then, I will just watch with the care anyone who dislikes secret probes should.

953 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:48:20pm

re: #148 Charles

Unfortunately, what we’re seeing with this report is that far too many right-wing blogs and Republicans are taking it as an attack on them, when it’s targeted only at extremists — and the report makes that very, very clear.
By losing it over this report, they’re only cementing that impression that the GOP is the party of extremists — instead of agreeing that some of these groups DO need to be watched, people are making the unfortunate choice to self-identify with them. It’s sad.


From the Document:

* (U) Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

I am not an extremist, except perhaps in the defense of the ideals that make America what it is, but I do feel strongly about immigration for example - the illegal, not the legal variety. This report very cavalierly fails to make that distinction. I also believe in states rights and federalism, the very foundation of our Republic. I do not see a very, very clear distinction separating extremists from the values that I believe in. I see parts of this document as profiling the views I hold and am offended that while profiling is excoriated in other arenas, apparently it is acceptable in this case.
Yes we should keep an eye on anyone that threatens violence or the overthrow of the United States government but I think the broad brush this document uses to profile right wingers is cause for concern.

954 Viking6  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:48:46pm

I have with held commenting on the various aspects of this and prior threads as I don’t really like to add fuel to otherwise controversial issues but I think that all of these items are designed to “shape” the battlefield in a way that favors a liberal agenda.

While not a conspiracy theorist it seems that these items have ignited “spirited” discussion which exposes extreme behavior to appear so the liberal agenda can claim it as being typical conservative behavior that should not be tolerated.

In these times of supercharged emotional issues a simple, poorly written document has ignited the extreme right, denigrated the military by eliciting the subconscious images, which are the result of movies, novels and MSFM columns, of the rogue super solider in the minds of those who do not know or understand the military and served the purpose allowing the liberal voice one more opportunity to cry out against conservative values by pointing and saying see the crazy people who don’t believe in Hope and Change. To those who haven’t drunk the koolaid these examples carefully pointed out can move those undecided to the great change artist’s social utopia while steadying the resolve of the true believers.

Just as a friendly reminder, a very wise man once said, “Keep your powder dry boys.”

955 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:49:27pm

re: #949 Sharmuta

Whose making excuses for Nazis?

956 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:49:29pm

re: #951 buzzsawmonkey

You can always tell the ones who claim “Apocalypse Service”; they all claim to have been part of the Seventh SEALS.

It’s Leftenant Behind and the Seventh Seal Cavalry.

957 J.D.  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:50:19pm

re: #903 calcajun

I DO want to bicker ‘n argue ‘bout who killed who.


Carry on.

958 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:50:19pm

re: #538 thebigolddog

I like that philosophy. It makes life a lot simpler. I won’t have to waste any time considering opinions of people with whom I can find a major disagreement any more.

So, I just called my Doc and canceled my surgery next week. When he asked why, I said it was becuase he thinks Obama is a “great man” and therefore, none of his opinion matter to me any longer.

If your doctor suddenly started telling you that he was going to use faith healing, put on a witch doctor’s mask, and sacrificed chickens in the waiting room, you might have a valid analogy.

959 nyc redneck  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:51:09pm

re: #915 opnion

Seriously, Matthews was trying to boot strap himself onto the then popularity of the military. He made himself sound like Rambo of the Peace Corps.

they secretly do desire to be tuff guys. everyone admires bravery.
but they know they don’t have what it takes.
they have no real courage. they will always run rather than fight.
they spend a lot of time trying to hide their cowardice.
this usually entails putting down the military,
whose very existence is a threat to them .

960 Natasha  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:51:23pm

re: #948 DaddyG

Thank you. She was a pistol her first couple of years in the house but she mellowed. Unfortunately she got some bad kitty food and passed away. She is resting beneath a beautiful native crabapple with our first and favorite kitty George. We just adopted a new Maine Coon who looks like a giant tabby. He’s somewhat anti-social right now but we believe he was abused and needs time to get acclimated.

My parents adopted a kitty from a shelter who had been abused before she ended up there. Beautiful cat, long-haired calico. She recovered somewhat, but had a bit of kitty PTSD, for lack of a better term. She would have these fits of anger, and just attack, then run away, hide and growl. It would last for about 20 minutes at a time, then she’d come back to normal. She only did it to people she did not know well. She even did it to me, when I came to visit, but I bribed her with treats, and she got used to me. I must say, my parents did give her a very good life, and she passed away 2 years ago at the age of 12.

961 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:51:25pm

re: #958 Charles

/He could be posting from Haiti …

962 Joel  Fri, Apr 17, 2009 12:52:41pm

re: #956 Kosh’s Shadow

It’s Leftenant Behind and the Seventh Seal Cavalry.

Is that related to the Seventh Cavalry of Little Bighorn fame?