Bad News for Rick Perry

US NewsApril 2009 • Views: 3,345

Texas Governor Rick Perry (R), who appointed a raving creationist dentist to head the Texas Board of Education (twice), came out this week with a populist grandstand play intended to capitalize on the tea party demonstrations, hinting that Texas might secede from the United States.

Unfortunately for Rick Perry, 75% of Texans disagree with him. So much for Perry’s attempted populism.

Thirty-one percent (31%) of Texas voters say that their state has the right to secede from the United States and form an independent country.

However, the latest Rasmussen Reports poll in the state finds that if the matter was put to a vote, it wouldn’t even be close. Three-fourths (75%) of Lone Star State voters would opt to remain in the United States. Only 18% would vote to secede, and seven percent (7%) are not sure what they’d choose.

Texas Governor Rick Perry, in response to a reporter’s question about secession at a protest “tea party,” said Wednesday, “We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that? But Texas is a very unique place, and we’re a pretty independent lot to boot.” The comment was widely reported in the media.

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169 comments

NYCHardhat Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:23:24pm

We must preserve the union.

HelloDare Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:24:38pm

And the 25% who agree with Perry are illegal immigrants.

NYCHardhat Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:24:49pm

Oh yeah…. Don’t mess with Texas.

monkeytime Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:25:10pm

I’m glad that poll came out so that Texans don’t go down with the Perry ship.

flighterdoc Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:25:41pm

Oh, give it a rest, Charles….

Personally I think a little chance of secession is probably a good thing. It would certainly temper the morons in DC (elected and otherwise).

Boxy_brown Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:25:46pm

“creationist dentist”

How do you get a medical degree and think the world is a few thousand years old?

albusteve Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:26:36pm

re: #3 NYCHardhat

Oh yeah…. Don’t mess with Texas.

they are the only people in the world that can do brisket…a major contribution to meat eaters everywhere

zombie Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:27:07pm

This will be Obama’s chance to actually be like Lincoln:

Declare war on the seceding state, announce martial law and suspend habeas corpus, and then invade Texas with the United States military.

Unlike the first War of Secession, however, I predict this one would last about 36 hours. (I don’t care how many guns the Texas national guard might have: you do not mess with the US military.)

Perry is obviously a complete moron.

Does threat of secession qualify as sedition?

NYCHardhat Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:27:25pm

re: #5 flighterdoc

Oh, give it a rest, Charles….

Personally I think a little chance of secession is probably a good thing. It would certainly temper the morons in DC (elected and otherwise).

There is nothing to gain from it. Shut up.

screaming_eagle Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:28:32pm

Waiting for the Rasmussen poll that asks Texans if they want Washington to fuck-off.

albusteve Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:28:53pm

re: #8 zombie

This will be Obama’s chance to actually be like Lincoln:

Declare war on the seceding state, announce martial law and suspend habeas corpus, and then invade Texas with the United States military.

Unlike the first War of Secession, however, I predict this one would last about 36 hours. (I don’t care how many guns the Texas national guard might have: you do not mess with the US military.)

Perry is obviously a complete moron.

Does threat of secession qualify as sedition?

how could it…secessions by definition excludes sedition

zombie Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:29:26pm

re: #5 flighterdoc

Oh, give it a rest, Charles….

Personally I think a little chance of secession is probably a good thing. It would certainly temper the morons in DC (elected and otherwise).

Oh, so you support breaking up the United States, eh? Nice.

If you have a funny feeling on the back of your neck, it’s George Washington and Ulysses S. Grant staring at you from beyond the grave. And they are not happy.

Pickles Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:30:22pm

IMO it was a stupid thing to do (promoting secession).

NonNativeTexan Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:30:58pm

He was just being a homer, caught up in the moment.
No one including the governor was serious about succession,
but a little hyperbole to get the point of too much Federal intrusion sometimes helps get the message across.

ArmyWife Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:31:11pm

re: #8 zombie

WAIT! My whole family is there! My grandparents, my aunts, uncles. This is NOT a good plan, and I can’t see my husband taking my poor grandmothers on at gun point, somehow!

Rick Perry was talking out of his arse as politicians are apt to do.

IslandLibertarian Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:31:26pm

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

zombie Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:31:27pm

Millions of men gave their lives to create and preserve this country, and now we’ll throw it all away over bickering about tax rates?

Sharmuta Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:31:40pm

re: #5 flighterdoc

Personally I think a little chance of secession is probably a good thing. It would certainly temper the morons in DC (elected and otherwise).

I think it’s giving the morons in DC a good laugh. Threatening succession is no way to brign sanity- fiscal or otherwise back to our government.

alegrias Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:32:23pm

I agree neither Rick Perry nor Bobby Jindal are ready for prime time.

Get back to your day jobs, you two crazy governors. Don’t you have borders to protect and corrupt cities to rebuild?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:32:38pm

re: #17 zombie

Millions of men gave their lives to create and preserve this country, and now we’ll throw it all away over bickering about tax rates?

No the tax rates, for me. It’s the spending money my sons and daughter haven’t made yet.

notutopia Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:32:38pm

It would have behooved Gov. Perry to ask his voters of the Great State of Texas, if this is what THEY, the resident tax payers wanted, before taking to the podium and making such a dynamic claim.
It sounded powerful and dramatic for him to threaten it?
Don’t false threaten anything, if you don’t mean to act on it.
Crying wolf will lose the desired impact when you have to cut lose for real.

HelloDare Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:32:46pm

re: #6 Boxy_brown

“creationist dentist”

How do you get a medical degree and think the world is a few thousand years old?

Creationist dentist’s slogan: I won’t monkey with your teeth.

albusteve Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:32:55pm

re: #17 zombie

Millions of men gave their lives to create and preserve this country, and now we’ll throw it all away over bickering about tax rates?

I don’t think so…Rick’s hyperbole ship has sailed

alegrias Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:33:15pm

re: #18 Sharmuta

I think it’s giving the morons in DC a good laugh. Threatening succession is no way to brign sanity- fiscal or otherwise back to our government.

* * *
PS, succession is a good thing, it means turning over the job.

Secession is leaving the Union.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:33:35pm

Texas. It’s a whole other country.

Whodathunk they meant it.

reine.de.tout Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:33:53pm

re: #19 alegrias

I agree neither Rick Perry nor Bobby Jindal are ready for prime time.

Get back to your day jobs, you two crazy governors. Don’t you have borders to protect and corrupt cities to rebuild?

Yes, they do.
You would think they might actually, you know, be doing it.

Sharmuta Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:33:53pm

re: #24 alegrias

Thanks.

ArmyWife Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:34:13pm

re: #17 zombie

I’ve been with Rick Perry at meetings in a past life, he’s a politician and for some reason that profession causes intermittent lapses of brain power. It was a stupid thing to say - a regretful thing to say (as he has found out). It was like when I say to my husband “I CAN’T STAND YOU” which isn’t true at only - on Perry said it on TV for gazillions to hear and criticize. No one was drawing up a strategic plan to leave the Union.

HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:34:22pm

Texas Governor Rick Perry (R), who appointed a raving creationist dentist to head the Texas Board of Education (twice),

You know you just can’t make this shit up..If it wasn’t so sad it would be laughable

Charles Johnson Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:34:34pm

re: #5 flighterdoc

At some point, the message that it isn’t a good idea to use my website to post insults to me will start getting through.

Wilderstad Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:35:35pm

Perry trying to bust a Gilles Duceppe/ Bloc Quebecois move. That’s not working too terribly well for Quebec either.

zombie Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:35:45pm

re: #16 IslandLibertarian

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Obama may be ruining the economy.
He may be embarrassing us on the international stage.
He may be a crypto-socialist.
He may hate America in the deepest recesses of his soul.
he may have been brainwashed by leftist ideologies.
He may be raising taxes unwisely and trying to redistribute some wealth.

But, so far at least, he is neither a despot nor a dictator. Our day-to-day lives have continued pretty much unchanged. He has not abolished the three branches of the Federal government.

There’s a big different between being a bad president and being an absolute despot.

Let’s not drink the Flav-R-Aid.

ArmyWife Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:36:54pm

re: #28 ArmyWife

also regretful is the next to last sentence which should have read:

…which isn’t true, just said in the moment, and Rick Perry said it on TV blah blah blah.

/hanging head in shame.

alegrias Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:37:36pm

re: #32 zombie

Obama may be ruining the economy.
He may be embarrassing us on the international stage.
He may be a crypto-socialist.
He may hate America in the deepest recesses of his soul.
he may have been brainwashed by leftist ideologies.
He may be raising taxes unwisely and trying to redistribute some wealth.

But, so far at least, he is neither a despot nor a dictator. Our day-to-day lives have continued pretty much unchanged. He has not abolished the three branches of the Federal government.

There’s a big different between being a bad president and being an absolute despot.

Let’s not drink the Flav-R-Aid.

* * * *
That’s a lot of “progress” he’s made in under 100 days!

Athens Runaway Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:38:04pm

re: #32 zombie
Let’s not drink the Flav-R-Aid.

But it’s cheaper than Kool-Aid but just as yummy?

FrogMarch Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:38:18pm

good news. Texans aren’t crazy.

Now, the Hawaiians - that’s another story.

albusteve Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:38:34pm

our unchanged lives would the include skyrocketing unemployment, 7000pts lost in the market and spending my great grandchildren will pay for….otherwise all’s cool…yep

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:38:46pm

The ghosts of millions of Union and Confederate soldiers would like Rick Perry to think before he talks.

pink freud Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:39:19pm

re: #33 ArmyWife

also regretful is the next to last sentence which should have read:

…which isn’t true, just said in the moment, and Rick Perry said it on TV blah blah blah.

/hanging head in shame.

That’s exactly how I read it! ;-)

Nice to see you, ArmyWife. Settling in well, I hope.

Killgore Trout Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:39:36pm

However, the latest Rasmussen Reports poll in the state finds that if the matter was put to a vote, it wouldn’t even be close. Three-fourths (75%) of Lone Star State voters would opt to remain in the United States. Only 18% would vote to secede, and seven percent (7%) are not sure what they’d choose.

I look at this the same way we look at those RoP polls. I think the 18% and the 7% undecided are a sign of a pretty substantial problem.

isurviving Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:40:39pm

Ok King of the Lizards and the rest of the Einsteins, lighten up on the seriousness. He was just making a statement to underscore how angry people are and how insane the policies currently are. He has no intent of seceding from the Union. It was made for dramatic affect on the audience. This time you need to lighten Chuck.

albusteve Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:40:56pm

pretty close in classical terms….I suppose it needs to be nuanced

en.wikipedia.org

IslandLibertarian Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:42:04pm

You missed this part:
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

I’m not a kool-aid kid.
“0” is heading down the road to socialism.
Forewarned is for forearmed. It might or might not happen.
But never forget, it is our right and duty to overthrow an oppressive government.
And for Gods sake. That is taken from the Declaration of Independence.

NYCHardhat Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:42:05pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

I look at this the same way we look at those RoP polls. I think the 18% and the 7% undecided are a sign of a pretty substantial problem.

Well, 25% of the country thinks 9/11 was an inside job. I think you have your answer.

NonNativeTexan Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:42:24pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Especially since 10% of RoP , over a billion,
is significant.

pink freud Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:42:36pm

re: #41 isurviving

Ok King of the Lizards and the rest of the Einsteins, lighten up on the seriousness. He was just making a statement to underscore how angry people are and how insane the policies currently are. He has no intent of seceding from the Union. It was made for dramatic affect on the audience. This time you need to lighten Chuck.

Oh, ok. He was joking. I get it.

Zimriel Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:43:47pm

No way would we choose to secede if that guy was going to be our President.

ArmyWife Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:44:14pm

re: #39 pink freud

Yep - in my little apartment. I’m not going home this weekend, I am going with my oldest to see her new college tomorrow instead. Going to look at more houses on Sunday - may end up building. My indecisiveness is making me crazy!

Hope things are well with you, too!

Idle Drifter Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:44:24pm

re: #41 isurviving

Don’t you sleepers, sock puppets, mobys, trolls, etc just sit and wait for the right thread to start shit waiting your turn for some dramatic exit and ban.

HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:45:01pm

re: #49 Idle Drifter

Don’t you sleepers, sock puppets, mobys, trolls, etc just sit and wait for the right thread to start shit waiting your turn for some dramatic exit and ban.

Is it a full moon tonight?

Pietr Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:45:03pm

re: #41 isurviving

This time you need to lighten Chuck.

I don’t think your comment was best ended this way. Not that the rest of your post was wise either, but that ending isn’t exactly a bright one…..

albusteve Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:45:29pm

re: #49 Idle Drifter

Don’t you sleepers, sock puppets, mobys, trolls, etc just sit and wait for the right thread to start shit waiting your turn for some dramatic exit and ban.

not a real hot thread to die on….no drama

NYCHardhat Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:45:31pm

re: #41 isurviving

you will be blocked.

Timbre Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:46:03pm

I don’t think he was joking. Like Clayton Williams back in 1990, his mouth showed his true colors. If Kay Bailey Hutchison runs against him, I may vote for her.

albusteve Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:46:21pm

re: #53 NYCHardhat

you will be blocked.

isurviving isn’t

SixDegrees Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:46:35pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

I look at this the same way we look at those RoP polls. I think the 18% and the 7% undecided are a sign of a pretty substantial problem.

True. But the problem might be that the people who answered the poll that way are too stupid to understand what a big word like “secession” meant. Never forget that, by definition, half the country is below average.

Charles Johnson Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:46:59pm

re: #41 isurviving

Man, is this ever getting tedious.

Idle Drifter Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:47:04pm

re: #50 HoosierHoops

Is it a full moon tonight?

I can’t tell, I got a ton of Al Gore Global Warming outside my window right now. It’s been coming down for some time.

NYCHardhat Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:47:43pm

re: #55 albusteve

he will soon.

Pietr Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:48:14pm

re: #59 NYCHardhat

he will soon.

Is Now……

NYCHardhat Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:48:31pm

re: #60 Pietr

Is Now……

How many is that today?

SixDegrees Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:49:07pm

re: #41 isurviving

Ok King of the Lizards and the rest of the Einsteins, lighten up on the seriousness. He was just making a statement to underscore how angry people are and how insane the policies currently are. He has no intent of seceding from the Union. It was made for dramatic affect on the audience. This time you need to lighten Chuck.

And it backfired. Dramatically. Maybe his constituents didn’t get your memo.

Idle Drifter Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:49:53pm

re: #52 albusteve

not a real hot thread to die on….no drama

Yeah, the better ones wait until the think of it.

Pietr Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:50:15pm

Upthread, it was mentioned over 6-with these last 2, that’s 8; but I had to skip a lot, because I was in and out. I’d guess 10 or more…..

SixDegrees Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:51:17pm

re: #50 HoosierHoops

Is it a full moon tonight?

Nope; last week.

capitalist piglet Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:51:36pm

re: #56 SixDegrees

True. But the problem might be that the people who answered the poll that way are too stupid to understand what a big word like “secession” meant. Never forget that, by definition, half the country is below average.

Ummmm…nevermind.

Pietr Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:53:01pm

re: #50 HoosierHoops

Is it a full moon tonight?

Full moon is before Easter, and actually determines the date of Easter, IIRC…..

irongrampa Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:53:48pm

re: #58 Idle Drifter

Colorado?

HDrepub Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:54:47pm

re: #67 Pietr

Full moon is before Easter, and actually determines the date of Easter, IIRC…..

You are partly correct. Easter occurs the next Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox.

Idle Drifter Fri, Apr 17, 2009 5:55:23pm

re: #68 irongrampa

Somewhere in there near Denver.

SixDegrees Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:00:17pm

re: #66 capitalist piglet

Ummmm…nevermind.

Aw, go ahead. It’s just that I dislike poll reporting; it never provides any actual useful information to evaluate the poll with, like how respondents were selected or even what question they were actually asked. And my own experience with polls conducted by professional polling organizations (not sure if this one fits into the category) is that they are deeply flawed and attempt to provide the answers their clients are hoping to hear.

I was once approached for such a poll to evaluate a new beer Budweiser was thinking about marketing. Part of the ordeal was answering a very long series of cross-correlated questions about my current imbibing habits. When we got to the part about which beer I normally drank, I told the truth and gave the name of an extremely obscure locally brewed ale. This was 30 years ago, before microbrewing had taken hold, and I was met with a blank stare when the questioner couldn’t find the name on her list - which consisted of five of Bud’s major national competitors, with no option for write-ins. So my poll taker repeated the question, several times, hoping for an answer that included one of the five on the list. After explaining that my choice was real, and that I would never consider drinking any of the choices offered, she finally said, “OK, I’ll just put down ‘Miller’ for you then.”

Anyway, in order to evaluate polls you need to know a lot more about them than just the results. And as usual, those aren’t given in this case.

HDrepub Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:08:12pm

Didn’t Vermont have a secession movement? IIRC that was in the news in 2007.

Zimriel Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:11:00pm

re: #72 HDrepub

Didn’t Vermont have a secession movement? IIRC that was in the news in 2007.

Quite a few states started out with a militia declaring itself the lawful army of an independent republic. Vermont had a go of it; and then there’s the Bear Flag Republic in California. I think Texas was the only one (other than Hawaii) to get recognition by foreign embassies (which would include Washington).

Zimriel Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:11:21pm

Washington DC, I mean; not the state

Pietr Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:12:19pm

re: #72 HDrepub

Didn’t Vermont have a secession movement? IIRC that was in the news in 2007.

Wow-that article was so WRONG! Our current military is smaller than in WWII and Korea, even smaller than during Vietnam. And to say it’s larger than China’s? Did this reporter do any research?

jamgarr Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:13:11pm

Purveyor
Of
The
Ubiquitous
Statements of
Apology

jwb7605 Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:14:39pm

re: #36 FrogMarch

good news. Texans aren’t crazy.

Now, the Hawaiians - that’s another story.

So, I heard the snow is missing Boulder

//ducks and hides …

HDrepub Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:16:12pm

re: #75 Pietr

Wow-that article was so WRONG! Our current military is smaller than in WWII and Korea, even smaller than during Vietnam. And to say it’s larger than China’s? Did this reporter do any research?

What would you expect from the Washington Post?

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:16:30pm

re: #6 Boxy_brown

“creationist dentist”

How do you get a medical degree and think the world is a few thousand years old?

I guess if you solely focus on human teeth it’s possible.

jwb7605 Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:17:04pm

re: #57 Charles

Man, is this ever getting tedious.

It is.
On the perverse bright side, though, I enjoy the negative reaction from the vast majority of everybody from coast to coast. It gives me faith in my fellow Americans.

Pietr Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:17:41pm

re: #77 jwb7605

So, I heard the snow is missing Boulder

//ducks and hides …

The correct move would be:

/white smoke (and then, duck and hide, seek bunker)

Ask redc1c4 for the full SMOKE explanation, but the white smoke is meant to cover your retreat/attack…….:>))

Catttt Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:20:29pm

Here is a grassroots resource in Texas to counter the ninny nonsense:

The Texas Freedom Network.

Has lots of activity and what not for Texans to get involved.

FrogMarch Fri, Apr 17, 2009 6:25:11pm

re: #77 jwb7605

So, I heard the snow is missing Boulder

//ducks and hides …

(sorry I missed this… moved on to the other thread. )

No snow here. Zero rain/snow on my roof, which is why I have a new leak.

*grumble*

I hear there’s no snow in Louisville.

RoughRider Fri, Apr 17, 2009 7:06:49pm

Perry is a tool who’s only trying to manufacture the image of being a “true conservative” because he knows Kay Bailey Hutchison is going to clean his clock in the 2010 Republican Primary for Texas Governor.

SFGoth Fri, Apr 17, 2009 7:12:26pm

Did you hear the one about the dinosaur who went to the dentist?

Momzilla Fri, Apr 17, 2009 7:24:19pm

The thing is that Texans are noticing that we’re only getting about 1/6 from Washington what we are sending up there, and what we get tends to have government strings attached that either require a change of state law or require a substantial investment from our state budget. And while Washington is meddling in our state’s budget and business (in violation of the U.S. constitution), they aren’t taking care of their responsibilities relative to issues such as border security.

I sure hate to be defending Rick Perry; I voted against the buzzard. Populist pandering? Sure. That’s what he does. But a lot more is being made of that statement than the context calls for. He wasn’t seriously suggesting that Texas secede.

sambor Fri, Apr 17, 2009 7:55:51pm

Rick perry is trying to gin up support so he doesnt get booted in the primaries by kay bailey. go kay go

BillLangston Fri, Apr 17, 2009 7:58:07pm

re: #32 zombie

Zombie, you are a very reasonable lady and I respect you for that.

I am troubled by your post though; although you are correct in your statement that he is not a despot (yet) I wonder just how many more of the things that you site that he *is* doing will it take to get you pissed off?

Yours truly,
Bill Langston

Achilles Tang Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:16:01pm

Congrats to Texas; only 7% are morons (which is probably less than the national average) and only 18% are idiots, which is probably about average.

Hotspur666 Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:16:21pm

While Hussein Melonhead and socialist company
are busy tearing civilization apart,
the freemen’s opposition is busy tearing itself apart…

Congratulation for making carville-coonass
the snakehead’s job so easy!

So What Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:21:49pm

Vermont has never said that it wanted to secede? Just saying whats the big deal

Achilles Tang Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:22:31pm

re: #90 Hotspur666

Congrats on your first post.

////

Charles Johnson Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:35:46pm

re: #90 Hotspur666

Get off my website.

drool Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:39:46pm

Methinks Hotspur666 won’t be around long.

drool Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:42:41pm

I guess Perry forgot about that civil war thing. I heard that there also was a Supreme Court case in 1869 that squished all that “logic” that Perry was trying to use to justify his argument. I must try and find it.

Anyone know?

Ben-ami Fri, Apr 17, 2009 8:56:16pm

I’m from Texas, and the treaty under which Texas came into the Union specifies that we could split into five separate states later (although in practice that could not happen). Evidently a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that the same treaty would allow us to secede with Congressional approval, but it doesn’t.

David IV of Georgia Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:21:24pm

As a Texan who has had family here since our war of independence made us a sovereign nation, I would like to make a few comments:

Perry was grandstanding—succession is not in his or our best interest.

Texas now has so many Yanks here that the vote to succeed would not succeed. In fact, it is surprising and rare to hear an accent that is distinctly Texan anymore.

Most old family Texans consider every law and treaty made by our state in the 30 years after the War of Northern Aggression as more or less optional—not necessarily valid, but don’t piss off the Yanks over trifles.

Most Texans have no great love for the Northern States, but will fight and die for them if they are attacked or insulted by foreigners.

Most Texans know that however much things are screwed up in D.C., Austin is no better. Why have a war only to move your problems closer to home?

If there were a war it wouldn’t be a repeat of the 1860’s. Texas has some of the best military bases in the world. During the SALT and SALT II treaty talks, Texas had the largest nuclear weapon stockpiles in the world. Cowboy diplomacy anyone?

While Texans may talk about succession, it’s just talk. Hints of succession by the governor are just a bunch of political hot air. It is one of those unworkable solutions that gets mentioned and dismissed whenever someone or something from somewhere else gets us irked. Everything is bigger in Texas, including lies and “braggado”. The few people who seriously discuss succession in Texas tend to be morons.

librum Fri, Apr 17, 2009 9:39:28pm

At first I was just a bit shocked and annoyed that a sitting Governor would utter such nonsense, and then I was angry when I realized how completely ridiculous it sounded. Secession is a funny thing to throw around when you’re grousing about your taxes or about the border, but it’s nothing anyone really considers. I mean, seriously, secede from the United States? What sort of lunacy is that? It completely undercuts the rest of his discussion about the importance of states rights and how the federal government is a creature of the states, not the other way around.

Here’s to hoping Kay Bailey shows him the door.

Whippet Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:21:55pm

Hmmm, Perry of Kay Bailey Hutchison. Which moderate to choose. When you’re already fighting over which is the most moderate/middle of the roader how will you ever form the ever perfect centrist party?

100

Salamantis Fri, Apr 17, 2009 10:55:07pm

re: #99 Whippet

Hmmm, Perry of Kay Bailey Hutchison. Which moderate to choose. When you’re already fighting over which is the most moderate/middle of the roader how will you ever form the ever perfect centrist party?

Someone who repeatedly appoints a Young Earth Creationist to head his state’s Board of Education and talks of secession from the union (Perry) cannot be considered to be moderate by any reasonable rational definition.

101

carbon footprint Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:29:58pm

I live in Texas.
Rick Perry was not talking secession; he was talking to Texans and was surrounded by politically friendly people.
Personally, this dick has pissed me off several times in the past and I don’t trust him as far as I could chunk a cow patty, but this is pure brilliance on his part, politically speaking. He needed to differentiate himself to KBH and this will do it. He will win, in a landslide, and his words may even make Obama a bit nervous.
That is win-win.

102

Salamantis Fri, Apr 17, 2009 11:33:13pm

re: #101 carbon footprint

I live in Texas.
Rick Perry was not talking secession; he was talking to Texans and was surrounded by politically friendly people.
Personally, this dick has pissed me off several times in the past and I don’t trust him as far as I could chunk a cow patty, but this is pure brilliance on his part, politically speaking. He needed to differentiate himself to KBH and this will do it. He will win, in a landslide, and his words may even make Obama a bit nervous.
That is win-win.

Except for the public school students of his state, and any other state that buys Texas-approved textbooks.

They will lose. As, eventually, will US bioscience related economic concerns and national security interests, when we are stuck with a dearth of competent bioscientists as a result of the perversion and pollution of bioscience education with religious dogmas.

103

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:06:42am

re: #102 Salamantis

Of course as a conservative, I feel that any public education is far too expensive and should be left to private enterprise or home schooling. We throw so many dollars at government funded schools and yet we fail to compete with other countries.

I feel that when education is something that is paid for, like many other services, the parents and therefore the students will have more incentive to learn.

As far as the bio science issue; Texas is a state that has pretty much stuck to principles that we believe to be solid as stone. We are a very open-minded people but we tend to follow our tenets and live them.

104

Salamantis Sat, Apr 18, 2009 3:30:27am

re: #103 carbon footprint

Of course as a conservative, I feel that any public education is far too expensive and should be left to private enterprise or home schooling. We throw so many dollars at government funded schools and yet we fail to compete with other countries.

I feel that when education is something that is paid for, like many other services, the parents and therefore the students will have more incentive to learn.

And of course that means that you are willing to repeal mandatory education, and split this country down the middle along class lines - those who are able to pay for educating their kids vs. those who aren’t. Playing right into the leftist plan. Parents who can’t afford to send their kids to pay-for-learn schools will also be unable to spend the time and money to homeschool them.

As far as the bio science issue; Texas is a state that has pretty much stuck to principles that we believe to be solid as stone. We are a very open-minded people but we tend to follow our tenets and live them.

Then follow your Perry messiah and try to establish a fucking theocracy; entangling church and state in public school science class is unconstitutional violation of the 1st Amendment. A Christian version of Iran, complete with sectarian madrassas, would be a totalitarian theocratic abomination. It would be a sacrifice of freedom on the altar of faith.

105

Momzilla Sat, Apr 18, 2009 4:20:59am

re: #101 carbon footprint

He’s starting to take the Kinky Friedman line, while Kinky has announced that he’s going to run as a Democrat. What a state!

Otherwise, no opinion relative to science classes in Texas public schools. They weren’t having that much success even prior to the attempt to bring intelligent design into the classrooms. Yet, my privately educated (Christian School) kids had quite a few classmates who went on to be successful in science disciplines in secular colleges. This includes my daughter-in-law, BS Biology from A&M 2005. On the other hand, some of the most virulent anti-science individuals I know in the Christian community have a secular public school science education.

Certainly, don’t take that as an endorsement of requiring intelligent design to be taught in public schools. It’s a statement made to show that it probably won’t have that much impact one way or the other on science.

Typically the biggest barrier I’ve seen to education, at least in our state, relate to basic mastery of math and reading skills and not specific course content. Any other Texans remember the state-approved “Rain Forest Math” books? LOL

106

The Dude Sat, Apr 18, 2009 6:18:43am

I live in Texas.
Rick Perry was not talking secession; he was talking to Texans and was surrounded by politically friendly people.
Personally, this dick has pissed me off several times in the past and I don’t trust him as far as I could chunk a cow patty, but this is pure brilliance on his part, politically speaking. He needed to differentiate himself to KBH and this will do it. He will win, in a landslide, and his words may even make Obama a bit nervous.
That is win-win.

I live here too (Houston) and I couldn’t agree more with your comment. One of the things that shocks me the most about KBH’s exploratory committee is who is supporting her. US Rep. Ted Poe supporting Kay? It’s just another indication of the miserable state of disarray Republicans are in right now.

107

SalsaNChips Sat, Apr 18, 2009 6:34:15am

I posted about this on Digg, but I’ll say it again here.

I am an American first and a Texan second.

I LOVE this state. I hope to live the rest of my life here, die here, be buried here. But that is in a Texas that is part of the United States Of America ONLY.

Perry has just proven himself to be an idiot. Totally jumped the shark. How dare he try to hijack the valid grass roots tea party movement to even *suggest* some supposed 10th amendment right to succession. HELLO? MCFLY? Texas gave up that right when it was re-admitted after the Civil War!

Perry is trying to pick the lock on the Gates Of Hell. A lock that was placed there 144 years ago. PRAY that his efforts are not successful.

108

The Dude Sat, Apr 18, 2009 6:43:31am

PRAY that his efforts are not successful.

They won’t be. I agree with you about being an American first and a Texan second, but that really isn’t what this was all about. It was just like carbon footprint said:

Rick Perry was not talking secession; he was talking to Texans and was surrounded by politically friendly people.

It’s all about the votes. No more, no less. I try to never take seriously ideological posturing that comes from any politician, because it’s nearly always just that.

109

Dr. Shalit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 6:46:10am

re: #96 Ben-ami

I’m from Texas, and the treaty under which Texas came into the Union specifies that we could split into five separate states later (although in practice that could not happen). Evidently a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that the same treaty would allow us to secede with Congressional approval, but it doesn’t.

Ben-ami -

Upding for this one. You know your Texas History. Lemmesee now, 108 Senators, 10 from the former “Texas.” Sounds like a way better deal than secession. That is all.

-S-

110

Blastforth Sat, Apr 18, 2009 8:37:38am

“Liberty and union, now and forever, one and inseparable! Dan Webster

111

Mellow Traveller Sat, Apr 18, 2009 8:39:43am

I was there for all of this. I heard him say all of the things we’re discussing - talking with the reporters and I listened to his speech as he was actually saying it. The context that keeps being left out is his emphasis on the 10th Amendment.

So to paraphrase (perryphrase?) Perry - He doesn’t see any need to secede and doesn’t know at what point that would become a consideration, it is the last resort . BUT the Federal Government is becoming more oppressive and needs to be held in check (checks and balances) by the States (United STATES of America) since the Democrats have control over the Executive and Legislative branches and are using that leverage to push through even more oppression. Things are going better in Texas than in most places in this country and guess why? Low taxes, low regulation, low unemployment, 1000 people a day are moving here from across the country.

Seriously, I never liked Perry enough to defend him for any reason (I’ve never voted for him) but on this whole matter, I don’t mind. Rick Perry is right to bring up states rights and the 10th amendment now.

112

totex-blau Sat, Apr 18, 2009 8:43:19am

Sure, its about votes and it is posturing but Texans are DAMN tired of the nonstop nonsense that comes out of Washington.

113

neverquit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 8:46:29am

I come here because I do not expect spin.

At no point does Gov. Perry state he is, or would be, in support of leaving the Union, nor did he even come close to hinting he would.

Show me where he does.

We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it.

Sounds like the opposite to me.

But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that?

Yes, who knows what will come out of that? If we keep growing the government, and if we continue consolidating wealth into fewer and fewer corporations - recently at the expense of the tax payers, then the lines between government and business will be intertwined into a very strong cable. We have seen this happen before, in recent history. Never a good thing.

I can confidently state, given recent elections and economic events of the last 18 mos, that this “combining of govt’ and business”, is more of a danger than a wild card American soldier from Afghanistan joining a right wing extremist group…..

jmho.

114

neverquit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 8:56:38am

In fact, let’s crank it up. Do all these states want to leave the Union as well?

‘10th Amendment Movement’ gaining steam in states’

Oklahoma: State legislator Charles Key Tenth Amendment Resolution

10th Amendment Resolution Introduced in Wisconsin

OK 10th Amendment Resolution Passes State House! NH Sets Trend For Nation

I think there are more dudes, I got bored looking them up. It’s going to be 70+ degs here today on Long Island, and I think I will take the wife out to the Hamptons, or maybe the North Fork this time……distracted……

115

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 9:10:56am

re: #104 Salamantis

God Bless Texas!

re: #106 The Dude

Thanks.

re: #111 Mellow Traveller

I feel exactly the same way.

116

funky chicken Sat, Apr 18, 2009 9:27:55am

re: #8 zombie

This will be Obama’s chance to actually be like Lincoln:

Declare war on the seceding state, announce martial law and suspend habeas corpus, and then invade Texas with the United States military.

Unlike the first War of Secession, however, I predict this one would last about 36 hours. (I don’t care how many guns the Texas national guard might have: you do not mess with the US military.)

Perry is obviously a complete moron.

Does threat of secession qualify as sedition?

It would actually take less than 10 minutes. The JCS would call the commanding general of the TX National Guard to let him know they were heading his way, and the TX National Guard would let Perry know he’s on his own, and to enjoy his little solo insurrection.

117

Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 18, 2009 9:29:06am

re: #113 neverquit

I come here because I do not expect spin.

At no point does Gov. Perry state he is, or would be, in support of leaving the Union, nor did he even come close to hinting he would.

Show me where he does.

Right here:

We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. BUT if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that?

Yes, he is very definitely hinting at it. But go ahead and deny it if it makes you feel better.

118

funky chicken Sat, Apr 18, 2009 9:33:59am

re: #101 carbon footprint

I live in Texas.
Rick Perry was not talking secession; he was talking to Texans and was surrounded by politically friendly people.
Personally, this dick has pissed me off several times in the past and I don’t trust him as far as I could chunk a cow patty, but this is pure brilliance on his part, politically speaking. He needed to differentiate himself to KBH and this will do it. He will win, in a landslide, and his words may even make Obama a bit nervous.
That is win-win.

I hope Kay Bailey kicks his sorry, creationist ass in the primary. The guy is an embarrassment to the GOP. I say this as a person who went to college and grad school in KS during the creationist takeover of the KS GOP in the late 80s-early 90s. The result? Even dyed in the wool KS republican farmers elected Kathleen Sebelius governor, and now she’s our vaunted secretary of DHS.

119

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:22:12am

re: #118 funky chicken

Yeah, historically, I’m no fan of the guy. The Trans-Texas Corridor, mandatory HPV inoculation for young girls and flip-flopping his tough stance on the border enforcement that he had campaigned on. KBH is a lady that I have respected in the past, but her time in DC has pushed her too far left. She is horrible on the illegal immigration issue. That’s a big priority here in Texas.
As far as the ID/Creationism debate goes, if Obama continues pushing his cap and trade, amnesty and delves into gun control, Texas will have to consider drastic measures. Those issues define us. SO in the scheme and priority of things, ID is way low on the list.

Perry’s talk has to be taken in context. It was at a Texas Tea Party where he was surrounded by conservative Texans. A politician is going to talk drastically different under those circumstances. It was a party and as the Republican governor, it was his function to pep-talk the crowd. And I honestly believe that many of you who live in liberal bastions have become so numb by political correct speech and the sissy-fying aspects of those liberal environs that you tend to be shocked by an assertive Texan speaker.
What he said is so Texas.

I suspect that this has at least entered Obama’s radar and that is a great thing. Obama needs to be reminded that not all of the US citizens are going to just lay down and allow his socialism to devour us.

Nice seeing you again Funky.

120

Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:27:55am

re: #119 carbon footprint

What he said is so Texas.

Really? Then why do 75% of Texans seem to disagree with Perry?

121

neverquit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:42:06am

re: #120 Charles

I disagree. Care to address 114?

122

neverquit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:44:40am

Off to the Hamptons, for real this time. Will check back. Should be good, Charles is always tough as nails.

123

Vashta.Nerada Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:46:58am

I hope Kay Bailey kicks his sorry, creationist ass in the primary.

Ain’t going to happen - a pro-abortion ‘republican’ doesn’t have much hope, especially one that supports so called ‘stimulus’.

124

Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:50:49am

re: #121 neverquit

I disagree. Care to address 114?

You disagree with what? That 75% of Texans said they would not vote to secede? OK, go ahead and disagree, but you’re disagreeing with a fact-based survey.

125

Vashta.Nerada Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:51:30am

re: #118 funky chicken

I hope Kay Bailey kicks his sorry, creationist ass in the primary.

Ain’t going to happen - a pro-abortion ‘republican’ doesn’t have much hope, especially one that supports so called ‘stimulus’.

That’s better.

126

Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:52:23am

And those Republicans who are pushing these weird 10th amendment resolutions (in order to jump on the tea party bandwagon for political gain) are, again, further cementing the impression in the minds of many Americans that the GOP is a party of far right kooks.

127

Vashta.Nerada Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:58:58am

re: #126 Charles

And those Republicans who are pushing these weird 10th amendment resolutions (in order to jump on the tea party bandwagon for political gain) are, again, further cementing the impression in the minds of many Americans that the GOP is a party of far right kooks.

So, what you are saying is that anyone who wants us to follow our own governing documents is a kook? Interesting.

128

Mellow Traveller Sat, Apr 18, 2009 11:12:27am

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

Who wrote such a kooky thing? Must have been a complete moron. We don’t even need this stupid amendment anymore, just ignore it. Why on Earth would somebody put such a silly thing in the United States Constitution? Useless clutter.

129

Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 18, 2009 11:32:27am

There’s nothing wrong with the 10th Amendment as written. There IS something wrong with using it to promote a version of states’ rights that includes (or hints at) secession from the US. You folks don’t even see that you’re being played by cynical politicians for their own gain.

130

RadicalRon Sat, Apr 18, 2009 11:32:44am

Yo, Rick!

The people of the great state of Texas have evolved since the mid-nineteenth century.

131

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:02:04pm

re: #120 Charles

Fair question Charles. I think that 31%, which is around the same pro-Revolutionary War number, is a ridiculously high number that should get anyone’s attention. Personally, I know a secession would never happen. Texas may still have rugged individualism but we have also been deluged by millions of New Englanders and Californians since the early 70’s. Urban areas of Texas are very similar to urban areas elsewhere in the country. There are reality based segregation’s of the rich and the poor; the minorities and the Anglos. Dallas and Houston have specific communities of Latinos, Blacks, Korean, Jewish and gay people. Obama won most of our urban areas in the election. You still have a large democratic segment here and people that would diametrically oppose secession from both parties. The rural areas of Texas are very different and most of the people are loyal conservatives. So the poll was conducted in rural vs. urban, the outcome of the poll would be drastically different. I lived in Big D for eight years and moved back to my rural Texas community three years ago, but I work in Dallas still.
Yes, that 31% is frightfully high.

132

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:03:32pm

So if the poll was conducted in rural vs. urban…
pimf

133

Salamantis Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:07:31pm

I am, btw, in favor of mandatory HPV inoculation for young girls. Only someone who wants to see women punished by cancer for sexual ‘sins’ could oppose such a thing.

134

Momzilla Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:16:15pm

re: #120 Charles

Really? Then why do 75% of Texans seem to disagree with Perry?

Now this is an easy one, especially considering that he won reelection with only a tiny bit over 1/3 of the vote. He isn’t that popular here, even among Republicans. But if you polled Texans and asked if they believed he was suggesting that Texas should secede, I’d imagine the only people who voted yes would be the kind of left wingers who vote for Nader and those who haven’t lived here long.

135

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:28:29pm

re: #126 Charles

Charles, you could be right. However, the only people that view mainstream conservatives as kooks are the usual suspects. They will always think that and little in the way of how we behave will change it. Talk of secession (and as I made clear, I don’t believe it will happen and I am not ready to give up on the USA) is kooky, IMO, when things are going well with the union. We, in Texas, were a bit delayed in feeling the effects of the recession. It hit us like tornado though in September. The signs of it were apparent back in early ‘08 when I was amongst a plethora of architects who were let go. So we are feeling the pain that many of you were feeling much earlier, now. So when Texans see their country on the road to destruction because of the horrid, socialistic policies of Washington, we take notice. We strive on individuality and socialism liite is not able to be emulsified into this. Obama, IMO, still has three issues to go until we reach a tipping point. Cap and trade, amnesty for illegals and gun control; the first two I know he is going to push; the gun control issue is something I don’t think he would ever try. I personally think that the amnesty deal will upset the cart the most of all.

Charles, we are 80 some odd days into his administration and people are hinting at Texas seceding? That is what is troubling about this whole thing. And I am giving you the benefit that Perry was hinting at it. I personally, as well as many more Texans, don’t believe that.

We still have 3 years and 9 months, at least, left of this administration and if Obama continues with the aggressive social-lite agenda, we will have serious debate about secession and it will not be seen as kooky at all.

I think it would be interesting if you did a LGF poll regarding a possible secession. The questions could be along the lines of: If Texas were to secede, would you support it? If there was a way to break it down by states, you would see that there are probably more people out of Texas who support it and not for nefarious reasons. They would support through living vicariously through Texas’ actual power to negotiate and slow down the, either, perceived or real threat to our country and out of the frustration of the direction it is going. In the end, the government is the people and we decide our direction. Just because Obama won the election and got 56% of the vote does not give him a mandate to radically push us into a different form of government. There are still 44% of us and we are guaranteed to be represented too.

136

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:40:08pm

re: #133 Salamantis

You hate Christians, don’t you?

I am a Christian but the reason I don’t want the government to mandate inoculation of little girls is because I don’t want the government forcing medical treatment of sexually transmitted or based diseases. Freedom, my friend, is much better than allowing the government more power over your life and your decisions. Do you want the government outlaw tobacco just because it may cause cancer?
Your argument is disingenuous; you are not looking out for the welfare of little girls but just want to slam Christians and make everything about Creationism. I’ve got news for you; there are many Christians who don’t even have ID/Creationism on their radar. I am one of them.

So, if you want to debate about something other than my faith, let’s go.

137

Mellow Traveller Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:43:59pm

There’s nothing wrong with the 10th Amendment as written. There IS something wrong with using it to promote a version of states’ rights that includes (or hints at) secession from the US. You folks don’t even see that you’re being played by cynical politicians for their own gain./blockquote>
Let me assure you that I am not being played by Rick Perry. I’ve never voted for the guy and saw through his BS when he ran the first time. But he’s not advocating, explicitly or implicitly, that Texas should secede. He agrees with you Charles-great union, no need to dissolve it. Do you know what the people would do if DC continues to thumb it’s nose at them? My guess is something between nothing and secession and I think Rick Perry would agree with me. He wasn’t at the Tea Party to give a speech on secession. He mainly followed up on the theme he started the day before with this quote in the capitol rotunda:

“I believe the federal government has become oppressive,” Perry said. “I believe it’s become oppressive in its size, its intrusion into the lives of its citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state.”
The governor added, “We think it’s time to draw the line in the sand and tell Washington that no longer are we going to accept their oppressive hand in the state of Texas.”/blockquote>
That’s what we should be talking about. Not the secession BS that’s been getting drummed up.

138

leofl Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:49:15pm

What y’all don’t realize is that the poll was of 500 Texans! 500?

Probably from Austin, that liberal bastion on the prairie.

We Texans don’t want to secede but if we must we can pretty much take care of ourselves.

Gov Perry made his point (and I’m not in anyway a Perry fan) but he did cause many folks to start thinking about maybe fighting to fix our union. And its not just about tax rates!

139

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:52:19pm

re: #138 leofl

Ha, we Texans all give that disclaimer about not liking Perry.
I find it shocking that I’ve been defending him for four days.
I agree with you 100%.

140

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 12:55:11pm

Youtube Video

Watch out Obama. We have a beautiful conservative mulatto that gives a great speech and does it all without a teleprompter!

141

Whippet Sat, Apr 18, 2009 2:01:11pm

Isn’t it amazing how someone can interpret the release of the DHS report one way to fit their agenda, and then interpret Perry’s comments to do the same. And then accuse people of insulting them when they are simply disagreeing in a polite way. I’ve been reading this site for years and all of a sudden rational mature adults have turned into obsessive snarky teenagers.

The middle in this country is mired in individual “one issue” politics. Other than that they’re philisophically either right or left and they cause the rest of us to live with only the right or left because they keep swinging the votes from someone like Reagan to Obama.

News to the middle…the political pendulum has swung far left. When it starts swinging the other way it isn’t going to land in the middle. The middle’s opportunity has passed and I think you all know it you’re just not willing to admit it.

142

Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 18, 2009 2:21:47pm

re: #141 Whippet

Isn’t it amazing how someone can interpret the release of the DHS report one way to fit their agenda, and then interpret Perry’s comments to do the same. And then accuse people of insulting them when they are simply disagreeing in a polite way.

I said Rick Perry was hinting at secession in his comments, and he absolutely was. It’s as plain as day, but still people want to deny it.

But by all means, just keep yelling about the horrors of the DHS report, and advocating against moderation. I’m sure that will be a winning strategy for you.

143

dannydjmorales Sat, Apr 18, 2009 2:34:06pm

“Unfortunately for Rick Perry, 75% of Texans disagree with him. So much for Perry’s attempted populism.”

That means that one in four Texans agree with him. Similar percentages have revolutionized entire continents (what was the percentage of revolutionaries in 1775?).

Ambivalent types are swept away by the circumstances that surround them. The real question is how many Texans on either side are willing to put their necks on the line for seceding or staying in the union.

144

whippet Sat, Apr 18, 2009 2:43:53pm

#142 Charles
Kind of like how well the “moderate” McCain strategy worked out for the middle?

145

carbon footprint Sat, Apr 18, 2009 2:49:43pm

re: #143 dannydjmorales

It’s is very high indeed. Project population of 2008 is 24,178,180. 25% of that is 6044545. To put that into context the entire population of the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex is 6,248,472.

146

whippet Sat, Apr 18, 2009 2:50:29pm

#142 Charles
My comment:
“Isn’t it amazing how someone can interpret the release of the DHS report one way to fit their agenda, and then interpret Perry’s comments to do the same. And then accuse people of insulting them when they are simply disagreeing in a polite way. I’ve been reading this site for years and all of a sudden rational mature adults have turned into obsessive snarky teenagers.”

Your response:
“But by all means, just keep yelling about the horrors of the DHS report..”

It was my first comment about the DHS report, I mentioned no horrors and there is no yelling taking place. See how that context thing works?

147

funky chicken Sat, Apr 18, 2009 3:44:42pm

re: #133 Salamantis

I am, btw, in favor of mandatory HPV inoculation for young girls. Only someone who wants to see women punished by cancer for sexual ‘sins’ could oppose such a thing.

Oh boy, I have to disagree. My daughter is a teenager, and I didn’t get her the HPV vaccine. She will be able to make that decision when she becomes sexually active, and I won’t discourage her from getting the shot at that time. She and I did have a discussion about HPV and cervical cancer, and I let her know that the best way to not get HPV was to be choosy and, er, minimalist in her sexual partners. I’ve found that promiscuity never works out well for women psychologically, no matter how much we try to divorce sexual behavior from religious morality. I honestly believe that women are hard wired very differently from men, and it’s not totally or primarily societally induced guilt/shame.

She decided she didn’t want any more shots since her school required another TDaP and Hepatitis A and she’d recently had the meningococcal vaccine too. But she knows about the vaccine and cervical cancer and will be able to get the shot at any time she wants it once she’s driving anyway, and she won’t have to ask me for permission unless she wants me to pay for it (and she knows I’m happy to pay for it too).

148

funky chicken Sat, Apr 18, 2009 3:48:47pm

re: #119 carbon footprint

Hey CF! It does seem a shame that TX politicians of both parties appear to be so damned opposed to doing anything about illegal immigration. I don’t get it….

149

whippet Sat, Apr 18, 2009 4:09:43pm

#133 Salamantis

“I am, btw, in favor of mandatory HPV inoculation for young girls. Only someone who wants to see women punished by cancer for sexual ‘sins’ could oppose such a thing.”

Let’s turn that quaint little statement right back at ya…

I am, btw, in favor of mandatory circumscision for all young males. Only someone who wants to see men punished with increased infections and other heath issues could oppose such a thing.

Or, in case you aren’t male:

I am, btw, in favor of mandatory mastectomies for all young women. Only someone who wants to see women suffer with breast cancer could oppose such a thing.

Feel the same way now?

150

neverquit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 4:50:17pm

re: #124 Charles

You disagree with what? That 75% of Texans said they would not vote to secede? OK, go ahead and disagree, but you’re disagreeing with a fact-based survey.

Come on man, that is not right. I clearly stated that Perry did not,- in any manner whatsoever,- state he was in support of leaving the Union. PERIOD.

You can’t show me where he did. I can show you other states that have put forth 10th Amend Resolutions, just as Texas has. No talk of leaving the Union for those states.

Therefore, the whole title of this board, “Bad News For Perry”, and the whole premise of this Rasmussen poll, and comment board, is FALSE.

inho of course.

151

neverquit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 4:56:17pm

re: #126 Charles

And those Republicans who are pushing these weird 10th amendment resolutions (in order to jump on the tea party bandwagon for political gain) are, again, further cementing the impression in the minds of many Americans that the GOP is a party of far right kooks.

Funny, to me, I support the Resolutions, and do not support the Tea Party krap. I see no relationship between the two.

As matter of fact, I see the 10th Amendment Resolutions as more proper, and are an action within the political system itself, not a street action, as are all public demonstrations. I applaud the Resolutions as trying to change the system by the system rules.

jmo

152

neverquit Sat, Apr 18, 2009 4:59:27pm

re: #135 carbon footprint

Charles, we are 80 some odd days into his administration and people are hinting at Texas seceding? That is what is troubling about this whole thing. And I am giving you the benefit that Perry was hinting at it. I personally, as well as many more Texans, don’t believe that.

Here here.

153

Momzilla Sat, Apr 18, 2009 6:29:54pm

re: #151 neverquit

I heard a news report today that records of phone calls, e-mails, etc. to Austin are running 2-1 in support of Perry’s stance on this. Texans may not want to secede. (Already knew that without a poll. LOL) But they are angry at the federal government and tired of its meddling in state matters.

154

Hucbald Sat, Apr 18, 2009 8:35:04pm

Being a Texan myself, you can put me in that 25% column there. LOL!

155

Salamantis Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:41:27pm

re: #136 carbon footprint

You hate Christians, don’t you?

I am a Christian but the reason I don’t want the government to mandate inoculation of little girls is because I don’t want the government forcing medical treatment of sexually transmitted or based diseases. Freedom, my friend, is much better than allowing the government more power over your life and your decisions. Do you want the government outlaw tobacco just because it may cause cancer?
Your argument is disingenuous; you are not looking out for the welfare of little girls but just want to slam Christians and make everything about Creationism. I’ve got news for you; there are many Christians who don’t even have ID/Creationism on their radar. I am one of them.

So, if you want to debate about something other than my faith, let’s go.

Most Christians are not opposed to HPV vaccinations; only condemnatiory fundamentalists are, who see such vaccinations as not just preventing a dreaded disease, but as humans interfering with God’s divine and righteous retribution against those who have unapproved-by-them sex. Which apparently includes you. Such people WANT women who have unapproved-by-them sex to contract cancer; they see this as fair and just.

And yes, I find such people - not all or even most Christians, but those who wanna preserve and protect cancerous retribution for sexual activity - to be ghastly ghouls.

156

Salamantis Sat, Apr 18, 2009 10:45:39pm

re: #149 whippet

#133 Salamantis

“I am, btw, in favor of mandatory HPV inoculation for young girls. Only someone who wants to see women punished by cancer for sexual ‘sins’ could oppose such a thing.”

Let’s turn that quaint little statement right back at ya…

I am, btw, in favor of mandatory circumscision for all young males. Only someone who wants to see men punished with increased infections and other heath issues could oppose such a thing.

Or, in case you aren’t male:

I am, btw, in favor of mandatory mastectomies for all young women. Only someone who wants to see women suffer with breast cancer could oppose such a thing.

Feel the same way now?

In neither case is the existence of breasts or foreskin (and breast cancer can attack males, too, btw) the casuse of cancer or other disease. HPV vaccination prevents a disease that is known to cause cancer.

And the very rare occurence of penile cancer can be prevented by the simple expedient of regular hygeine (washing).

157

Timbre Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:07:08am

According to the current poll (Sunday, 4-19-09) at CBS7 television in Odessa, Texas, 57% of viewers “agree with Governor Perry’s opinion about Texas seceding from the rest of the country?” (Scroll down at site above to view poll.)

158

Timbre Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:10:33am

I am amazed at the ignorance of people who don’t understand that the Civil War settled the secession matter once and for all. Anyone who still believes Texas should secede from the Union is a complete fool.

159

Whippet Sun, Apr 19, 2009 10:11:27am

#156 Salamantis

“In neither case is the existence of breasts or foreskin (and breast cancer can attack males, too, btw) the casuse of cancer or other disease”

Neither is the existence of a cervix…

The issue isn’t whether the HPV vaccine is a good thing. The issue is whether or not it should be mandatory and your insistance that anyone who feels otherwise is somehow uncaring or that people should pay some price for their sexual “sins.” You are quick to throw in a moral component when to many it has nothing to do with morals. It has to do with the government mandating the vaccine.

160

carbon footprint Sun, Apr 19, 2009 12:30:42pm

re: #155 Salamantis

Well I am certainly not a condemnatory fundamentalist. I am, for instance, one who is very open-minded about homosexuality and have been for many years. You will have to take my word that my Christianity has no bearings on my stance on forced HPV inoculation of little girls by the state. As I said before, that falls into the category of the government getting way too involved in our lives. The ID/Creativity link has no bearing in my beliefs, none. Don’t let your obsession with ID blind you to what a person’s real motives are. You seem to jump to conclusions, and that is a very narrow mindset.

161

carbon footprint Sun, Apr 19, 2009 12:31:49pm

re: #159 Whippet

You put it better than I ever could. Thank you.

162

Salamantis Sun, Apr 19, 2009 2:33:37pm

re: #159 Whippet

#156 Salamantis

“In neither case is the existence of breasts or foreskin (and breast cancer can attack males, too, btw) the casuse of cancer or other disease”

Neither is the existence of a cervix…

The issue isn’t whether the HPV vaccine is a good thing. The issue is whether or not it should be mandatory and your insistance that anyone who feels otherwise is somehow uncaring or that people should pay some price for their sexual “sins.” You are quick to throw in a moral component when to many it has nothing to do with morals. It has to do with the government mandating the vaccine.

re: #160 carbon footprint

Well I am certainly not a condemnatory fundamentalist. I am, for instance, one who is very open-minded about homosexuality and have been for many years. You will have to take my word that my Christianity has no bearings on my stance on forced HPV inoculation of little girls by the state. As I said before, that falls into the category of the government getting way too involved in our lives. The ID/Creativity link has no bearing in my beliefs, none. Don’t let your obsession with ID blind you to what a person’s real motives are. You seem to jump to conclusions, and that is a very narrow mindset.

I consider the willingness of parents to refuse to allow their children to receive a vaccine which has not been shown to be hazardous and which confers immunity from a dread, cancer-causing disease as immoral on its face. I also cannot conceive of any reason other than misguided religious conviction for parents to deny their children such a protection. To me, it resembles Christian Scientist parents refusing their children life-saving blood transfusions.

The presence of cervixes - or of foreskins or breasts -is not the issue here, nor should the presence or absence of sexual activity as an infection vector be a determining factor; the issue is a cancer causing disease that infects a particular organ. No such diseases have been found that infects breasts or foreskins, but if such diseases were indeed detected, and vaccines was developed that could prevent them, I would be in favor of mandatory vaccinations in those cases, too.

163

Whippet Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:51:10pm

#162 Salamantis

I consider the willingness of parents to refuse to allow their children to receive a vaccine which has not been shown to be hazardous and which confers immunity from a dread, cancer-causing disease as immoral on its face. I also cannot conceive of any reason other than misguided religious conviction for parents to deny their children such a protection. To me, it resembles Christian Scientist parents refusing their children life-saving blood transfusions.

Of course you can’t see things differently, that’s the issue… but mandatory is the problem…and I’m so glad that you’re so sure there is nothing hazardous about the vaccine. After all, there have never been any medications, surgeries, treatments, etc. that were later found to be more hazardous that what was being treated, right?

Until you get off the idea that any parent questioning the mandatory idea of this vaccine is caused simply by some religious belief you are blinded by any arguments. If you have children by all means get the vaccine if that is what you choose, just don’t force others to do so based on some ridiculous “religious” argument.

164

Salamantis Sun, Apr 19, 2009 7:42:45pm

re: #163 Whippet

#162 Salamantis

Of course you can’t see things differently, that’s the issue… but mandatory is the problem…and I’m so glad that you’re so sure there is nothing hazardous about the vaccine. After all, there have never been any medications, surgeries, treatments, etc. that were later found to be more hazardous that what was being treated, right?

Until you get off the idea that any parent questioning the mandatory idea of this vaccine is caused simply by some religious belief you are blinded by any arguments. If you have children by all means get the vaccine if that is what you choose, just don’t force others to do so based on some ridiculous “religious” argument.

But you are willing to damage herd immunity and risk the infection of others by having a significant percentage of the population remain unvaccinated against a deadly disease. How is dying from HPV induced cervical cancer any different in principle from dying of smallpox or polio? They’re all deadly and infectious diseases. And death is death.

It’s not just one’s own children that one is endangering by refusing to vaccinate them, and preserving sanctuaries for these deadly phages; it is also the children of others.

165

carbon footprint Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:22:41am

re: #162 Salamantis

I consider the willingness of parents to refuse to allow their children to receive a vaccine which has not been shown to be hazardous and which confers immunity from a dread, cancer-causing disease as immoral on its face. I also cannot conceive of any reason other than misguided religious conviction for parents to deny their children such a protection. To me, it resembles Christian Scientist parents refusing their children life-saving blood transfusions.

The presence of cervixes - or of foreskins or breasts -is not the issue here, nor should the presence or absence of sexual activity as an infection vector be a determining factor; the issue is a cancer causing disease that infects a particular organ. No such diseases have been found that infects breasts or foreskins, but if such diseases were indeed detected, and vaccines was developed that could prevent them, I would be in favor of mandatory vaccinations in those cases, too.

You are still missing the point. It is not the medicine that I am against, it is the mandatory aspect of the government involvement.
I don’t want the government forcing me into any more decisions than they already do.
Less government = Better society.
It’s a fact.

166

Salamantis Mon, Apr 20, 2009 2:20:47pm

re: #165 carbon footprint

You are still missing the point. It is not the medicine that I am against, it is the mandatory aspect of the government involvement.
I don’t want the government forcing me into any more decisions than they already do.
Less government = Better society.
It’s a fact.

If we took your position to the extreme, we should completely abolish the federal and state and local governments, and all live as individual anarchists. But, as Hobbes said, the live of the absolute individual in a society of them is a war of all against all, in which life is poor, nasty, brutish and short. We want the governemnt to provide for the common defence, and to ensure basic rights and liberties, and to build and maintain common infrastructures such as roads, tunnels and bridges, and to also promote the common welfare. Inoculation against deadly diseases is a promotion of the common welfare against epidemic infectious common threats.

167

whippet Mon, Apr 20, 2009 2:35:15pm

#166 Salamantis,

First, there is no need to take our position to the extreme as none of us has given you cause to do so. And yes, we all want the government to protect us from and provide for certain “things.” But each person interprets what those “things” are and will disagree on if or to what degree the government is responsible for providing it.

The point is, who chooses and when and where does it all stop?

168

whippet Mon, Apr 20, 2009 2:36:12pm

sorry, Salamantis…I put quotes around your section but it didn’t add the quotes!

169

Salamantis Mon, Apr 20, 2009 10:53:32pm

Who chooses? WE do, by majority vote of our executive and legislative branches, both state and federal. If we don’t like the choices that they made in our name, we are free to vote them out in the next election and replace them with people who will change those choices.

But a majority of us have to dislike their choices. And a majority will not dislike mandatory vaccine protection for children against a deadly cancer-causing disease.

Measles, mumps, and chicken pox are bad; HPV, and the cervical cancers it can cause, are worse.

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