United Nations Hypocrisy Writ Large

WorldApril 2009 • Views: 3,627

Writing in the New York Times, a former United Nations security officer describes what the UN did in Somalia in 1995, in response to a hostage situation.

In 1995, for example, the water supply for Mogadishu, the capital, was shut off by the United Nations humanitarian agencies until a hostage who worked for another aid organization was released. On the first day of the shutoff, the women who collected water from public distribution points yelled at the kidnappers; on the second day they stoned them; on the third day they shot at them; on the fourth day, the hostage was released.

Isn’t that interesting.

Imagine how the United Nations would react if Israel shut off the water supply to Gaza, in response to the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit.

Jump to bottom

227 comments

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:46:13pm

I'm more shocked that the UN -acted- on something.

Oh...wait, it was to protect one of their own, not you know, to follow a mandate, protect innocents, or you know, do anything useful.

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:46:15pm

The UN is a farce.

pingjockey Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:46:30pm

There would be gnashing of teeth, rendering of garments, howling at the moon, y'all get the idea.

pingjockey Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:46:50pm

BBL

MJ Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:47:24pm

If Israel tried something like that, The UN Security Council would be meeting in Special Session and issuing condemnation upon condemnation while the UK Labor Unions would be calling for a boycott.

davinvalkri Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:47:52pm

Now if only we could do the same thing in the same situations...

summergurl Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:48:33pm

Must have been pirates that did it -since they seem to be the only ones where it is acceptable to stand up and protect yourself and your countrymen.

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:48:54pm

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:50:36pm

MJ Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:50:41pm

Isn't this what the AP and the AFP as well the NYT like to call
"Collective punishment"?
Or, is it just collective punishment when Israel tries to defend itself?

SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:50:46pm

IIRC, They had a shitfit about pasta, that's right, pasta, not getting into Gaza.
Water ? OMG.

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:50:53pm

Is it fair to say the UN is a den of jackals and aholes?

DeerMusic Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:51:24pm

No good comes from having bad guys stronger and better armed than the good guys.

Peace comes only from strength.

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:51:45pm

Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:51:50pm

Lets get this unpleasantness out of the way do we can get back to raping younguns!

/UN Rep

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:51:50pm

The UN is a forum that provides voice mainly to tyrants, despots and strong arm dictators - all those who by no stretch of the imagination, except perhaps Jimmy Carter's, represent anything but themselves. That they have equal voice as the few democratic powers is what makes the UN a farce.

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:51:55pm

re: #5 MJ

If Israel tried something like that, The UN Security Council would be meeting in Special Session and issuing condemnation upon condemnation while the UK Labor Unions would be calling for a boycott.

Oh, there would be far more outrage and definitive action.....you know, like the action that we expect them to take against Iran, North Korea, Syria, Zimbabwe, the PRC, Cuba, Somalia, Venezuela, and the rest of the dispicable despotic nations that instead are fetted by this morally and intellectually bankrupt institution.

callahan23 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:52:19pm

re: #12 jhrhv

Is it fair to say the UN is a den of jackals and a**holes?

Plus, it is full of anti-Semites.
Yes it is fair to say that.

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:52:34pm

ya, but that's different.

somehow.

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:53:03pm

I hereby appoint myself Imperial UN Grand-Poohbah of dealing with international Crises....

Look, puppies!

Youtube Video

swamprat Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:53:33pm

We no longer hear the wailing about the situation in Somalia, I suspect it has lost its tactical position.

They did not care, they were after something.

DeerMusic Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:53:58pm

re: #12 jhrhv

I've heard that the U.N. maintains a staff of proctologists to ensure the perfection of those aholes.

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:54:20pm

So the only time the UN actually accomplished anything is when they did something they wouldn't let anyone else do...telling.

gettinby Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:54:24pm

re: #16 LGoPs

The UN is a forum that provides voice mainly to tyrants, despots and strong arm dictators - all those who by no stretch of the imagination, except perhaps Jimmy Carter's, represent anything but themselves. That they have equal voice as the few democratic powers is what makes the UN a farce.

*Learning Mode On*

Serious question...Why do we stay involved in this farce?

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:55:25pm

re: #12 jhrhv

Is it fair to say the UN is a den of jackals and aholes?

As an authorized representative of jackals and a-holes I object most strongly to your comparison and slur demeaning the above said entities.
You will be served with papers in the morning...........
/

Geepers Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:55:45pm

gettinby (#24),

Or why are we still the majority funders for it?

callahan23 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:55:57pm

re: #19 ArmyWife

Jya, but that's differraent.

somehow.

Corrected to give it a certain language hint. ^{^German}

MarineMomSue Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:56:15pm

if a detainee at Gitmo was denied water for just a few hours during an interrogation, their military guards would be charged with torturing them.

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:56:25pm

re: #24 gettinby

*Learning Mode On*

Serious question...Why do we stay involved in this farce?

Inertia is as good an answer as I can come up with......
Not being sarcastic.

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:56:32pm

If the US or Israel withheld water from kidnappers, it would be labeled as torture and inhumane.

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:56:51pm

re: #21 swamprat

We no longer hear the wailing about the situation in Somalia, I suspect it has lost its tactical position.

They did not care, they were after something.

It's all part of the bankruptcy of the hard left. They don't want any action taken against the despots and tyrants in the world. When the US and 35 other nations decided that Saddam crossed all lines and went after him - the hard left said that the US should be going to Darfur. If the US went to Darfur, the hard left would whinge about Iraq or Zimbabwe being the greater horror. So, they try to freeze decisions and if that fails, whatever is done, is wrong.

Randall Gross Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:57:00pm

Great observation Charles. I was entirely unaware of this past war of water genocide by the UN.

With holding water kills faster than withholding arms or electricity or even viagra

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:57:23pm

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:57:44pm

re: #28 MarineMomSue

if a detainee at Gitmo was denied water for just a few hours during an interrogation, their military guards would be charged with torturing them.

GMTA.

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:57:58pm

re: #30 DEZes

The UN would send them a strongly worded letter and pass a non binding resolution.

MarineMomSue Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:58:07pm

re: #30 DEZes

GMTA

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:58:36pm

re: #36 MarineMomSue

GMTA

Thats twice. ;)

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:58:54pm

On the first day of the shutoff, the women who collected water from public distribution points yelled at the kidnappers; on the second day they stoned them; on the third day they shot at them; on the fourth day, the hostage was released.

Even powerless, those women were pretty damn powerful, weren't they?

Jimash Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:58:59pm

re: #24 gettinby

Serious question...Why do we stay involved in this farce?

Something like its still better to be in the bus and able to grab the wheel than to be standing out front.

Sheepdogess Sun, Apr 19, 2009 4:59:35pm

The UN is deleterious, feckless, and worthless. I think they should be relocated to ANWAR. They won't last long in the cold, dark north.

MarineMomSue Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:00:46pm

re: #37 DEZes

scary, isn't it... :)

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:00:53pm

re: #40 Sheepdogess

The UN is deleterious, feckless, and worthless. I think they should be relocated to ~~ANWAR~~ the bottom of a volcano.

/fixed

DeerMusic Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:00:58pm

re: #39 Jimash

Something like its still better to be in the bus and able to grab the wheel than to be standing out front.

Somehow, the U.S. manages to be in the bus and get run over too.

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:01:02pm

re: #40 Sheepdogess

The UN is deleterious, feckless, and worthless. I think they should be relocated to ANWAR. They won't last long in the cold, dark north.

Somalia would be a wonderful location.

sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:01:31pm

re: #40 Sheepdogess

The UN is deleterious, feckless, and worthless. I think they should be relocated to ANWAR. They won't last long in the cold, dark north.

What do you have against ANWR Caribou!?!?!

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:01:53pm

re: #41 MarineMomSue

scary, isn't it... :)

Nah, truth is truth if you just look.

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:01:55pm

so..... why did it take another day after the terrorists were shot to get the hostage released? Just askin'

Sheepdogess Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:02:22pm

PIMF - ANWR

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:02:35pm

re: #47 UncleRancher

so..... why did it take another day after the terrorists were shot to get the hostage released? Just askin'

It says shot at them. not shot them.

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:02:45pm

re: #24 gettinby

I would suggest it is because the left tends to like international law. As a result, they would find value in this organization as they seem rather clueless that it doesn't work out well. Ever.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:02:46pm

re: #47 UncleRancher

Shot at them.

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:02:46pm

Do you know what is good about the UN? Really can anyone tell me?

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:03:00pm

re: #24 gettinby

Serious question...Why do we stay involved in this farce?

Serious answer - because many of the decision makers believe that it is better for the US to be in the UN, engage from within the UN, and attempt to educate / counter / inform / operate from the inside as opposed to working from the outside with little influence.

It is an organization seriously in need of reform - but it will resist reform and the current Administration will put no pressure on reforming it or considering harsher corrective measures even though they must know that it is a broken institution.

Killian Bundy Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:03:15pm

Imagine how the United Nations would respond

/I'm starting to really worry about how the United States is responding

DeerMusic Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:03:21pm

re: #44 DEZes

Somalia would be a wonderful location.

How about Marne-la-Vallee, France. It’s near EuroDisneyland so THERE WOULD BE, IN CLOSE PROXIMITY, TWO MICKEY MOUSE OPERATIONS FOR TOURISTS TO VISIT!

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:03:39pm

re: #49 DEZes

It says shot at them. not shot them.

*problem with quick reading..... must slow down.... *

axegrinder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:04:06pm

re: #20 Mithrax

I love dogs.

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:04:39pm

In 1995, for example, the water supply for Mogadishu, the capital, was shut off by the United Nations humanitarian agencies until a hostage who worked for another aid organization was released. On the first day of the shutoff, the women who collected water from public distribution points yelled at the kidnappers; on the second day they stoned them; on the third day they shot at them; on the fourth day, the hostage was released.

It is instructive that even in this action, the UN apparently used innocent women to do its bidding. And no doubt put those same women at risk since they were the ones confronting the kidnappers......
Pathetic.

ladycatnip Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:04:59pm

Isn't it amazing that what the left would call strong-arm tactics are perfectly fine and acceptable when done by the U.N.

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:05:10pm

re: #56 UncleRancher

*problem with quick reading..... must slow down.... *

We all do it, no biggy, thats why two heads are better than one.

SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:05:11pm

I can here a UN official after it was all over now.

"While we appreciate the efforts of the local population in resolving this matter, in the future all negotiations should be held by the U.N. professionals."

/Gag

axegrinder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:05:15pm

re: #52 jhrhv

Do you know what is good about the UN? Really can anyone tell me?

They have awesome digs in NYC.

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:06:00pm

re: #61 SasquatchOnSteroids

I can here a UN official after it was all over now.

"While we appreciate the efforts of the local population in resolving this matter, in the future all negotiations should be held by the U.N. professionals."

/Gag

Those 'professionals' were likely busy engaging in child porn and prostitution.

Sunlight Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:06:05pm

The U.S. military: doing the job the U.N. was created to do, but refuses.

Salamantis Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:06:06pm

Everybody here is focusing on how much they hate the UN. While I agree that the UN has more and more become a feckless and ignoble organization, I would like to see more focus on this successful tactic for obtaining hostage release, and suggestions of where else it might be effectively employed.

Gaza is one example; are there others?

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:06:07pm

re: #60 DEZes

We all do it, no biggy, thats why two heads are better than one.

Roger that...

Now, poor aim or what? If they were close enough to stone the kidnappers, etc...

David Simon Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:06:27pm

re: #52 jhrhv

Do you know what is good about the UN? Really can anyone tell me?

UNICEF does some good. Beyond that, I can't really think of anything.

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:06:45pm

re: #62 axegrinder

They have awesome digs in NYC.

The soon to be Trump Towers at Turtle Bay......?

SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:06:46pm

re: #63 Athos

Those 'professionals' were likely busy engaging in child porn and prostitution.

hence the gag. Imagine the stuff we don't know.....

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:07:07pm

re: #60 DEZes

But don't put that on your facebook because employers can search it and...wait, that isn't what you meant, is it?

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:07:19pm

"I can't hit a thing with this. I must get a bigger gun." -- I Spy.

sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:07:20pm

re: #64 Sunlight

The U.S. military: ~~doing~~ cleaning the ~~job~~ messes the U.N. ~~was~~ created ~~to do, but refuses~~.

FTFY

Sunlight Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:07:24pm

This story will give you the eeby jeebies.

IslandLibertarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:07:38pm

re: #52 jhrhv

Do you know what is good about the UN? Really can anyone tell me?

It brings the thoughts and actions of power hungry self serving racist countries out into the open?

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:07:46pm

re: #65 Salamantis

Everybody here is focusing on how much they hate the UN. While I agree that the UN has more and more become a feckless and ignoble organization, I would like to see more focus on this successful tactic for obtaining hostage release, and suggestions of where else it might be effectively employed.

Gaza is one example; are there others?

Blockading Puntland sounds like a similar tactic.

Bloodnok Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:08:13pm

re: #24 gettinby

*Learning Mode On*

Serious question...Why do we stay involved in this farce?

It is much easier to blend into the mob than it is to make tough decisions and take responsibility for your own actions. Even if that collective is not worthy of trust.

mommydoc Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:08:13pm

Interesting, also, that communal punishment works, and that even repressed, persecuted third worlders can stand up for themselves and deter the terrorists in their midst, when they are--ahem--pressured to do so.

Tangentially related, and probably already posted elsewhere, but this is unbelievably heartwarming and wrenching at the same time:

Tattoos From Auschwitz Horror Reunite Lost Inmates

What's also clear from this remarkable story is how many Holocaust survivors did go directly to Israel. And the world would now deny them (us) a homeland.

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:08:27pm

re: #24 gettinby

The UN once was an effective and good idea. I think it lasted about 20 years. Now they are IMO a corrupt bureaucracy of mini tyrants and full blow thieves.

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:08:32pm

re: #52 jhrhv

Do you know what is good about the UN? Really can anyone tell me?

Not trying to be sarcastic here but it supports the self flagellation that much of our liberal mindset seems intent on inflicting on America. Liberals are certainly not hostile to the adversarial tone the UN takes towards America in many things.
It's bullshit of course, but there you have it.

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:09:20pm

re: #66 UncleRancher

Roger that...

Now, poor aim or what? If they were close enough to stone the kidnappers, etc...

Hard to say for sure, but I'm betting they threw stones more in a symbolic gesture than to injure, like spitting at something out of range.
I spit at the UN every day, I know ill never hit anyone.

sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:09:30pm

re: #65 Salamantis

Everybody here is focusing on how much they hate the UN. While I agree that the UN has more and more become a feckless and ignoble organization, I would like to see more focus on this successful tactic for obtaining hostage release, and suggestions of where else it might be effectively employed.

Gaza is one example; are there others?

Cut off water/food/ electricity to wherever it is the Somalian "pirates" are still holding hostages.

Or better yet, do that to the pirates FAMILIES in Somalia until the hostages are released

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:09:55pm

Didja ever feel like a Pakistani peacekeeper, and the whole world is a soccer stadium?

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:10:43pm

re: #65 Salamantis

Everybody here is focusing on how much they hate the UN. While I agree that the UN has more and more become a feckless and ignoble organization, I would like to see more focus on this successful tactic for obtaining hostage release, and suggestions of where else it might be effectively employed.

Gaza is one example; are there others?

Note however that the successful tactic involved using the women that actually needed the water. Unmanly at the very least. I can't think of a parallel for Gaza.

Killian Bundy Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:10:50pm

Imagine how the United Nations would do if Israel shut off the water supply to Gaza, in response to the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit.

They'll condemn Israel, what's new?

/cut off the electricity, you get the water as a bonus

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:11:16pm

I know, let's cut off the American gunz to Mexico ... then they will stop exporting drugs!

/wait, that won't work

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:11:23pm

Or maybe cut off the water, and the women cut off the men. Yep, that'll work.

Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:11:40pm

On NPR today the talking twit interviewed some guy who said all the Somalis need is some military aid and training and they'll deal with the pirates themselves. No US "gunboats", no raiding pirate strongholds, nothing like that; everything is going to be fine. Just give us time and money.

And meanwhile? Not to worry.

Really. Look deep in my eyes. It's all for the best.

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:11:59pm

re: #70 ArmyWife

But don't put that on your facebook because employers can search it and...wait, that isn't what you meant, is it?

Thats part of anatomy best left alone, male body parts disgust me.

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:12:07pm

Salamantis Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:12:15pm

re: #83 LGoPs

Note however that the successful tactic involved using the women that actually needed the water. Unmanly at the very least. I can't think of a parallel for Gaza.

They didn't know ahead of time who would respond to the water cut-off; it just happened to be the women.

And it could be others besides women who respond to similar tactics in different locales.

axegrinder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:12:23pm

re: #65 Salamantis

Everybody here is focusing on how much they hate the UN. While I agree that the UN has more and more become a feckless and ignoble organization, I would like to see more focus on this successful tactic for obtaining hostage release, and suggestions of where else it might be effectively employed.

Gaza is one example; are there others?

The problem with these kinds of tactics against cities is that innocents always suffer more. The militants will go through the community and confiscate what is being withheld and simply smuggle in whatever else they need on top of that. Then use PR against the sanction makers.

gettinby Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:12:32pm

re: #50 ArmyWife

re: #53 Athos

Thank you. Both of you have given me knowledge.

This is a subject "up there" on my priority list while communicating with my elected representatives...along with term limits for said representatives.

/I wonder why they never answer my calls and emails?

sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:12:43pm

re: #86 UncleRancher

Or maybe cut off the water, and the women cut off the men. Yep, that'll work.

CIRCUMCISION FOR HOSTAGES!

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:12:59pm

re: #87 Cato the Elder

On NPR today the talking twit interviewed some guy who said all the Somalis need is some military aid and training and they'll deal with the pirates themselves. No US "gunboats", no raiding pirate strongholds, nothing like that; everything is going to be fine. Just give us time and money.

And meanwhile? Not to worry.

Really. Look deep in my eyes. It's all for the best.

Hey, that's why we gave the Mexicans money, HUMVEES, rifles, etc. And look how great that worked!

/let's do it again

bunny Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:13:06pm

I wish Israel would withold something-- electicity, water, supplies, etc. until Hamas releases Gilad Shalit. So far, all they have talked abut doing is releasing hundreds of terrorists in exchange for Gilad's release. This would put the entire population of Israel at more risk for terror attacks, murders, and kidnappings. There has got to be a better response than freeing a bunch of Hamassholes.

Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:13:13pm

re: #86 UncleRancher

Or maybe cut off the water, and the women cut off the men. Yep, that'll work.

Give the women knives, and let them cut off the men's...

A little male genital mutilation, for a change.

goddessoftheclassroom Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:13:24pm

re: #89 buzzsawmonkey

Lysistrategy!

VERY clever--as usual!

SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:13:37pm

re: #86 UncleRancher

Or maybe cut off the water, and the women cut off the men. Yep, that'll work.

We're not really cutting the water off, we're just having a HOH-down !

DeerMusic Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:14:29pm

re: #77 mommydoc

My parents both had tattoos from Auschwitz.

100

IslandLibertarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:14:55pm

re: #87 Cato the Elder

speaking of R. Crumb...

101

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:15:10pm

re: #88 DEZes

I didn't mean to disgust you!

102

Immolate Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:15:21pm

re: #33 buzzsawmonkey

But...but...how? Without water, you can't waterboard.

Damned if you do...

103

mommydoc Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:15:41pm

re: #67 David Simon
And they have systematically refused to use their funds to help Israeli children, so I have heard. I had a sorority sister decades ago who refused to buy their cards.

[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

Nice:
[Link: muqata.blogspot.com...]

Nope, not even UNICEF justifies the UN.

104

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:15:56pm

re: #95 bunny

I wish Israel would withold something-- electicity, water, supplies, etc. until Hamas releases Gilad Shalit. So far, all they have talked abut doing is releasing hundreds of terrorists in exchange for Gilad's release. This would put the entire population of Israel at more risk for terror attacks, murders, and kidnappings. There has got to be a better response than freeing a bunch of Hamassholes.

Its what they should stop withholding that is needed, aka its military.
But thats just my thoughts.

105

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:16:06pm

re: #92 gettinby

Term limits - OT but you know, you can set term limits. It's called voting them out. Not a fan of this - but I understand why some people think it's a solution.

106

Pickles Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:16:06pm

Wow good catch on that quote. That is absolutely incredible and, yes, the U.N is completely hypocritical.

107

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:16:50pm

re: #87 Cato the Elder

Who is supposed to command this Somali military? They haven't had a central gov't in 15 years.

108

swamprat Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:16:58pm

re: #31 Athos

It's all part of the bankruptcy of the hard left. They don't want any action taken against the despots and tyrants in the world. When the US and 35 other nations decided that Saddam crossed all lines and went after him - the hard left said that the US should be going to Darfur. If the US went to Darfur, the hard left would whinge about Iraq or Zimbabwe being the greater horror. So, they try to freeze decisions and if that fails, whatever is done, is wrong.

China gets oil from Somalia And Darfur, so Russia wanted to use the civil war to disrupt the flow of oil to China. Getting the United States to accomplish Russia's' ends, while draining our own resources in another war, would have been a real masterstroke.

109

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:17:14pm

re: #92 gettinby

I recommend getting and reading John Bolton's book, Surrender is not an option as a starting point to educate yourself.

110

callahan23 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:17:22pm

re: #73 Sunlight

This story will give you the eeby jeebies.

Thanks very creepy but so necessary.

111

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:17:38pm

re: #107 Kenneth

Who is supposed to command this Somali military? They haven't had a central gov't in 15 years.

Send Mos Def...
/

112

itellu3times Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:17:55pm

OT: New nucleotides

Once upon a time, researchers knew that DNA contained four nucleotides: A, T, C and G. Then they found a fifth. And now they've found a sixth.

Called 5-hydroxymethylcytosine, it's a form of the fifth nucleotide, technically known as 5-methylcytosine. Like its forerunner, it helps turn genes on and off, but in ways that researchers didn't expect.
...
If 5-hydroxymethylcytosine is as unique and important as he says it is, new epigenetic measurement tools will need to be developed. The Human Epigenome Project may need to be recalibrated.

Everything you know is wrong.

113

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:17:59pm

re: #101 ArmyWife

I didn't mean to disgust you!

You didnt, I was yanking your chain a bit.
Still, I hate male body parts. ;)

114

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:18:13pm

115

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:18:32pm

re: #95 bunny

If we had stronger leaders Cast Lead wouldn't have ended until he was free. I think that is something we can thank Zero at least partially for. You may recall Cast Lead ended days if not hours before Zero took the reigns of power. Not a coincidence.

116

sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:18:43pm

re: #113 DEZes

You didnt, I was yanking your chain a bit.
Still, I hate male body parts. ;)

I have a very nice femur, I'll have you know!

117

Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:19:02pm

re: #107 Kenneth

Who is supposed to command this Somali military? They haven't had a central gov't in 15 years.

Just trust us, dammit! Give us money and guns and everything will be great! What are you, some kind of racist?

118

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:19:05pm

re: #96 Cato the Elder

Umm... they do that a lot in that part of the world. Several US troops who fell into the hands of AQ or the Taliban were tortured this way. So are Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah or Hamas. The Mumbai terrorists did it too.

119

songbird Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:19:25pm

re: #113 DEZes

You didnt, I was yanking your chain a bit.
Still, I hate male body parts. ;)

Well, they ain't pretty, but they are useful!

120

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:19:45pm

re: #111 LGoPs

Send Mos Def...
/

Ha! Mos Def ain't in command of his faculties.

121

Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:19:50pm

re: #112 itellu3times

OT: New nucleotides

Everything you know is wrong.

This proves that evolution is a fraud.

Right?

122

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:19:51pm

re: #116 sattv4u2

I have a very nice femur, I'll have you know!

That was a sternum reply.

123

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:20:10pm

re: #120 Kenneth

Ha! Mos Def ain't in command of his faculties.

Fine, Busta Rhymes!

124

DeerMusic Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:20:26pm

re: #109 Athos

I recommend getting and reading John Bolton's book, Surrender is not an option as a starting point to educate yourself.

Done! Thank you for the reminder!

125

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:20:33pm

re: #119 songbird

Well, they ain't pretty, but they are useful!

True, I have all the parts.

126

gettinby Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:20:35pm

re: #105 ArmyWife

Term limits - OT but you know, you can set term limits. It's called voting them out. Not a fan of this - but I understand why some people think it's a solution.

You're right...I wasn't such a fan either, but it's working pretty well in Florida.

We're pushing pretty hard here locally to TRY to get a decent opponent against Bill Nelson. The last candidate, well, let's just say we lost BIG. LOL

127

Killian Bundy Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:20:38pm

re: #105 ArmyWife

Term limits - OT but you know, you can set term limits. It's called voting them out. Not a fan of this - but I understand why some people think it's a solution.

/start with Pelosi/Murtha/Frank/Dodd/Reid, etc., etc., term limits are the only sure way to get rid of the burrowing power ticks, short of nuking them from orbit

128

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:20:50pm

129

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:20:56pm

re: #122 DEZes

That was a sternum reply.

Ugh. the puns here are my achillies heel.

130

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:21:39pm

re: #118 Kenneth

Umm... they do that a lot in that part of the world. Several US troops who fell into the hands of AQ or the Taliban were tortured this way. So are Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah or Hamas. The Mumbai terrorists did it too.

And when you're left wounded on Afghanistan's plain,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
And go to your God like a soldier.

It's not new.

131

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:21:50pm

re: #108 swamprat

Somalia has zero hydrocarbon production. No oil, small gas reserves, but no production.

132

gettinby Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:21:50pm

re: #109 Athos

I recommend getting and reading John Bolton's book, Surrender is not an option as a starting point to educate yourself.

Excellent!

I love John Bolton.

Thanks.

133

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:21:51pm

re: #120 Kenneth

Ha! Mos Def ain't in command of his faculties.

LOL.......good comeback.

134

Jimash Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:21:53pm

re: #110 callahan23

Oh it must be fun to hang out in such a rareified atmosphere.
"He crossed not ten feet away from me, smiling and waving to the sixty or seventy people in the lobby. As far as I could tell, no one waved back. But I can tell you that being up close and relatively personal with Ahmadinejad is not a pleasant experience, far from it. It’s not like seeing a normal political adversary, someone from the other political party or whatever. It’s rather like being in the presence of pure evil, at least it was for me, or what I imagine that to be. Pure evil come to address a human rights convention! I felt as if I had been kicked in the stomach. I also felt nauseated."

135

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:22:18pm

re: #129 Mithrax

Ugh. the puns here are my achillies heel.

That one kind of got elbowed into the discussion ;-)

136

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:22:25pm

re: #107 Kenneth

details.

137

summergurl Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:22:28pm

re: #129 Mithrax

Ugh. the puns here are my achillies heel.

It's a pain in the neck trying to think these things up

138

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:22:54pm

re: #130 Dianna

Quoting Kipling is an automatic upding!

139

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:00pm

140

Van Helsing Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:01pm

re: #137 summergurl

It's a pain in the neck trying to think these things up

But so humerus.

141

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:12pm

re: #129 Mithrax

Ugh. the puns here are my achillies heel.

Are you trying to stirrup trouble?

142

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:15pm

re: #138 Kenneth

Quoting Kipling is an automatic upding!

Should be all Kipple tonight then?

143

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:24pm

re: #138 Kenneth

Quoting Kipling is an automatic upding!

As it ought to be!

144

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:26pm

re: #118 Kenneth

Umm... they do that a lot in that part of the world. Several US troops who fell into the hands of AQ or the Taliban were tortured this way. So are Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah or Hamas. The Mumbai terrorists did it too.

And our liberals get their panties in a bunch because we made some of these bastards wear underwear on their heads.......
Fuck.

145

itellu3times Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:33pm

re: #121 Cato the Elder

This proves that evolution is a fraud.

Right?

Darwin didn't know nuthin' but no nucleotides.

But the details of the story are still, er, evolving.

146

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:42pm

re: #142 Mithrax

Should be all Kipple tonight then?

Oh, let's!

147

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:23:46pm

re: #141 DEZes

Are you trying to stirrup trouble?

Nope. just beating my own tympanic drum :P

148

songbird Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:24:09pm

re: #140 Van Helsing

But so humerus.

Not everyone has the nerve to even try!

149

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:24:18pm

re: #130 Dianna

It's not new.

There is nothing new under the sun.

150

bunny Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:24:30pm

re: #104 DEZes

Exactly, more military. Operation Cast Lead seemed to end prematurely due to the election of The One.

151

gettinby Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:24:41pm

re: #135 UncleRancher

That one kind of got elbowed into the discussion ;-)

Well, yeah, butt...

152

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:24:42pm

re: #144 LGoPs

And our liberals get their panties in a bunch because we made some of these bastards wear underwear on their heads.......
Fuck.

I wore panties on my head once.
Got tossed outta Wall mart but hey.

153

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:24:48pm

re: #146 Dianna

Oh, let's!

Alright. Lemme see what I've got around here to Kipple with....

154

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:09pm

re: #138 Kenneth

Quoting Kipling is an automatic upding!

I imagine that quibbling wouldn't measure up....huh? Only thing I'm good at..........
/ :)

155

callahan23 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:13pm

Pun here, pun there. Fun everywhere. Still I gotta go to sleep. Take care all you righteous Lizards. Hugs { }.

156

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:17pm

re: #149 OldLineTexan

There is nothing new under the sun.

Well, no. Which sometimes worries me a little.

There are only three themes and ten plots, they tell me, and all we can do is ring the changes.

157

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:29pm

re: #147 Mithrax

Nope. just beating my own tympanic drum :P

Hammer away.

158

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:37pm

re: #152 DEZes

I wore panties on my head once.
Got tossed outta Wall mart but hey.

LOL.......I can just picture that.....

159

Jimash Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:46pm

MAke sure its got Mos Def in it . He's funny.

160

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:53pm

Kipple in bits?

161

funky chicken Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:55pm

Perhaps UN Headquarters could move to Mogadishu? They seem to understand the populace and how to get things done over there. I just heard Sec Def Gates say that piracy will continue to be a problem as long as there aren't jobs for Somali men. Building a new UN Headquarters would employ a whole lot of those guys.

They'd need an airport too. I suggest that John Murtha knows how to fleece US taxpayers for the cost of building a fancy airport. Perhaps he would have similar success getting money from governments all over the world?

Surely the Saudis and Kuwaitis would open their wallets to provide employment opportunities to their Islamic brothers?

162

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:25:59pm

re: #144 LGoPs

According to the UN & Amnesty international, over 100 countries routinely practice torture. Real torture. On thousands of prisoners. That includes Spain, where a judge was trying to lay charges against former Bush admin officials.

163

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:26:07pm

re: #153 Mithrax

Alright. Lemme see what I've got around here to Kipple with....

There are many, many choices.

It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say: --
"We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say: --
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say: --

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that pays it is lost!"

164

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:26:23pm

re: #146 Dianna

Do you like kipling?

165

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:26:24pm

re: #155 callahan23

Pun here, pun there. Fun everywhere. Still I gotta go to sleep. Take care all you righteous Lizards. Hugs { }.

Hope to see you tomorrow Callahan.....
{Callahan}

166

itellu3times Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:26:25pm

re: #139 Iron Fist

I saw that. I guess I wasn't entirely surprised. I still think our scientific understanding of the world is in its infantsy, so it doesn't surprise me to find that there is something major that we've missed in pretty much every field of science. That said, the structure of DNA has been such an area of interest for so many that I'm surprised something as basic as this seems to be hadn't been found. I wonder how this will effect the Human Genome project?

I'm at least mildly surprised. It's like, if someone discovered bits in my computer aren't necessarily 0 or 1, but sometimes they are 3.14159? We (that is, I) rather liked the program = DNA analogy, though I suppose we had lots of hints it was never going to be quite that easy.

Time will tell, if it holds up at all, just how important it may be.

167

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:26:50pm

re: #155 callahan23

Pun here, pun there. Fun everywhere. Still I gotta go to sleep. Take care all you righteous Lizards. Hugs { }.

Nite buddy.

168

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:27:05pm

re: #163 Dianna

There are many, many choices.

And I raise you a Mandalay

By the old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' eastward to the sea,
There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
"Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay!"
Come you back to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay:
Can't you 'ear their paddles chunkin' from Rangoon to Mandalay?
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin'-fishes play,
An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!

'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green,
An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat -- jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen,
An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot:
Bloomin' idol made o'mud --
Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd --
Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!
On the road to Mandalay . . .

When the mist was on the rice-fields an' the sun was droppin' slow,
She'd git 'er little banjo an' she'd sing "Kulla-lo-lo!"
With 'er arm upon my shoulder an' 'er cheek agin' my cheek
We useter watch the steamers an' the hathis pilin' teak.
Elephints a-pilin' teak
In the sludgy, squdgy creek,
Where the silence 'ung that 'eavy you was 'arf afraid to speak!
On the road to Mandalay . . .

But that's all shove be'ind me -- long ago an' fur away,
An' there ain't no 'busses runnin' from the Bank to Mandalay;
An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells:
"If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
No! you won't 'eed nothin' else
But them spicy garlic smells,
An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly temple-bells;
On the road to Mandalay . . .

I am sick o' wastin' leather on these gritty pavin'-stones,
An' the blasted Henglish drizzle wakes the fever in my bones;
Tho' I walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand,
An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but wot do they understand?
Beefy face an' grubby 'and --
Law! wot do they understand?
I've a neater, sweeter maiden in a cleaner, greener land!
On the road to Mandalay . . .

Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
Where there aren't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst;
For the temple-bells are callin', an' it's there that I would be --
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea;
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay,
With our sick beneath the awnings when we went to Mandalay!
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin'-fishes play,
An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!

169

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:27:23pm

re: #166 itellu3times

Dude, you have pi in your computer? Trade you for ice cream.

170

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:27:39pm

re: #164 Kenneth

Do you like kipling?

Very much. I like a lot of poets.

171

SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:27:46pm

If Realwest is still here, I went to make a donation in Dublin Dudes honor at ACS and it's asking for an address to send the card. Maybe if you have the funeral home's address, they could get it to them. Or I can just make a general donation, but it wouldn't be in his name . I'll do what you think is best.

172

Killian Bundy Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:29:08pm

re: #118 Kenneth

Umm... they do that a lot in that part of the world. Several US troops who fell into the hands of AQ or the Taliban were tortured this way. So are Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah or Hamas. The Mumbai terrorists did it too.

Electric drills, pulling off body parts, burning, mutilation, etc., etc. That's torture.

/being put in a box with caterpillars is not torture and promising to refrain from it and pulling the CIA's pants down around their ankles for even thinking about "caterpillar torture" will not convince our enemies to put down their Black & Deckers

173

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:29:15pm

re: #152 DEZes

I have pictures of Mr. ArmyWife with panties on his head. It was after more bottles of Jack Daniels than should have been consumed by young gentlemen, and the group was in rare form. They lit a glass of jack on fire - "The Eternal Flame of Jack" as I recall. that stuff burns a long time. It was funnier to them than me. Probably because I was sober and I think pregnant. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

174

traderjoe9 Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:29:33pm

Does anybody think if Israel actually did cut off all water and food supplies to the Strip that Hamas would actually relinquish Shalit? I honestly don't think they would mind seeing a million people starve to death. That would be a pretty good PR weapon for them, no?

But nevertheless, Israel continues to send water to Gaza, despite the fact that the country's water supplies are dangerously low and will eventually dry up at this pace.

175

funky chicken Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:29:42pm

re: #112 itellu3times

OT: New nucleotides

Everything you know is wrong.

C is cytosine, so methylcytosine is a modified C.

176

swamprat Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:29:47pm

re: #107 Kenneth

Who is supposed to command this Somali military? They haven't had a central gov't in 15 years.

That's one of those questions you are not supposed to ask. The money part of wars is studiously ignored....in the media, that is.

Serbian conflict. Nothing said.
Somalia. Again, who is paying these guys? Nada.
Darfur. Zip.
We hear loose talk about drugs funding some things, but it is largly propaganda.
Wars are funded by people who expect to get a return on their investment. Iran is putting cash into Iraq because they don't want America directly on their border.

177

Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:29:48pm

re: #77 mommydoc

My father in Law just passed away this last September and he was a survivor of Auschwitz. I am saddened and selfishly I miss him, but I know he is in a better place seeing family he hasn't seen in 64 years. G-d bless the survivors that remain.

178

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:30:00pm

re: #157 DEZes

warms the cochleas of my heart.

179

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:30:03pm

re: #168 Mithrax

And I raise you a Mandalay

I'm a little weak on my poker terminology, but here goes:

I'll see your Mandalay and raise you a Brown Bess:

"Brown Bess"
The Army Musket 1700-1815

In the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise -
An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes -
At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

Though her sight was not long and her weight was not small,
Yet her actions were winning, her language was clear;
And everyone bowed as she opened the ball
On the arm of some high-gaitered, grim grenadier.
Half Europe admitted the striking success
Of the dances and routs that were given by Brown Bess.

When ruffles were turned into stiff leather stocks,
And people wore pigtails instead of perukes,
Brown Bess never altered her iron-grey locks.
She knew she was valued for more than her looks.
"Oh, powder and patches was always my dress,
And I think am killing enough," said Brown Bess.

So she followed her red-coats, whatever they did,
From the heights of Quebec to the plains of Assaye,
From Gibraltar to Acre, Cape Town and Madrid,
And nothing about her was changed on the way;
(But most of the Empire which now we possess
Was won through those years by old-fashioned Brown Bess.)

In stubborn retreat or in stately advance,
From the Portugal coast to the cork-woods of Spain,
She had puzzled some excellent Marshals of France
Till none of them wanted to meet her again:
But later, near Brussels, Napoleon - no less -
Arranged for a Waterloo ball with Brown Bess.

She had danced till the dawn of that terrible day -
She danced till the dusk of more terrible night,
And before her linked squares his battalions gave way,
And her long fierce quadrilles put his lancers to flight:
And when his gilt carriage drove off in the press,
"I have danced my last dance for the world!" said Brown Bess.

Where old weapons are shown with their names writ beneath,
You will find her, upstanding, her back to the wall,
As stiff as a ramrod, the flint in her teeth.
And if ever we English had reason to bless
Any arm save our mothers', that arm is Brown Bess!

180

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:30:27pm

re: #170 Dianna

Very much. I like a lot of poets.

On one of my many jaunts to ye olde chain bookshoppe, I sauntered past the bargain section and they had a wall filled with small little hardcover pocketsized books of poets. Normal price $15....sale price $4. The poor girl working behind the counter thought I was nuts when I walked up with all 20 at once :P

181

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:31:37pm

182

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:31:41pm

re: #171 SasquatchOnSteroids

Wait, what about Dublin(CA)Dude?

183

SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:32:28pm

re: #177 Truck Monkey

My father in Law just passed away this last September and he was a survivor of Auschwitz. I am saddened and selfishly I miss him, but I know he is in a better place seeing family he hasn't seen in 64 years. G-d bless the survivors that remain.

Certainly puts in perspective what we sometimes bitch and moan about.
I'm very sorry for your loss.

184

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:32:44pm

re: #179 Dianna

Recessional by Kipling

God of our fathers, known of old--
Lord of our far-flung battle line
Beneath whose awful hand we hold
Dominion over palm and pine--
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget - lest we forget!

The tumult and the shouting dies;
The captains and the kings depart:
Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
An humble and a contrite heart.
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget - lest we forget!

Far-called, our navies melt away;
On dune and headland sinks the fire:
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
Lest we forget - lest we forget!

If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe--
Such boasting as the Gentiles use
Or lesser breeds without the law--
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget - lest we forget!

For heathen heart that puts her trust
In reeking tube and iron shard--
All valiant dust that builds on dust,
And guarding, calls not Thee to guard--
For frantic boast and foolish word,
Thy mercy on Thy people, Lord!

185

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:32:46pm

re: #173 ArmyWife

I have pictures of Mr. ArmyWife with panties on his head. It was after more bottles of Jack Daniels than should have been consumed by young gentlemen, and the group was in rare form. They lit a glass of jack on fire - "The Eternal Flame of Jack" as I recall. that stuff burns a long time. It was funnier to them than me. Probably because I was sober and I think pregnant. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Boys will be boys, which is fine to a point.
just consider your self lucky booze was all they were lighting that night.

186

SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:33:03pm

re: #182 Dianna

Wait, what about Dublin(CA)Dude?

He passed away. Check out #299 in the previous thread.

187

ArmyWife Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:34:13pm

re: #185 DEZes

Were you on the night I told on him for almost blowing the deck up with fireworks (along with my brother and brother in law?) That wasn't all that long ago. He hasn't really matured much now that I think about it!

188

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:34:34pm

re: #178 ArmyWife

warms the cochleas of my heart.

Puns like that can get on my nerves when to audible.

189

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:34:55pm

re: #184 Mithrax

This verse is worth repeating:

Far-called, our navies melt away;
On dune and headland sinks the fire:
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
Lest we forget - lest we forget!

America in the Age of Obama!

190

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:34:56pm

i wrote poetry once she was seventeen long brown hair to her waist and a dancers gait it was a cycle i am sure it was awful everything a boy that age writes is awful awkward worse than twelve and the cracking voice betraying me in class i gave it to her and she kissed me the next day she published it in the school journal i have a copy i think somewhere dusty in the garage but the memory is better

191

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:35:50pm

re: #187 ArmyWife

Were you on the night I told on him for almost blowing the deck up with fireworks (along with my brother and brother in law?) That wasn't all that long ago. He hasn't really matured much now that I think about it!

I think I do remember that. LMAO.

192

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:18pm

re: #190 OldLineTexan

Sweet.

193

Dianna Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:26pm

re: #184 Mithrax

A great favorite of mine!

re: #186 SasquatchOnSteroids

He passed away. Check out #299 in the previous thread.

Oh, no. I'm terribly sorry to read that. I will go check and write to realwest.

Thank you for telling me.

194

jhrhv Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:28pm

re: #174 traderjoe9

Its my belief that no government even a bunch of heavily armed thugs like the hamassholes could survive a real popular uprising. This might be even more true someplace like the strip where the public in general is also very armed. The question is with how brainwashed it seems so many PalArabs are. Would they rise against the thugs or would they just continue to blame everything on Israel.

The truth probably is if the people didn't rise up against the thugs Israel would turn the water back on before people died because they just aren't that heartless. Apparently the people in Somalia had a good notion the UN would let them die if they didn't get what they wanted. And I have no doubt if the tables were turned and it was Jews in Gaza the Pals would have turned off the water in 48 and it would never have come back on.

195

IslandLibertarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:38pm

re: #168 Mithrax

I want to pack my bags now........."If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
it's true..........

196

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:41pm

How about a little Robert Burns?

Holly Willie's Prayer.

O Thou that in the Heavens does dwell,
Wha, as it pleases best Thysel,
Sends ane to Heaven, an ten to Hell,
A' for Thy glory,
And no for onie guid or ill
They've done before Thee!

I bless and praise Thy matchless might,
When thousands Thou has left in night,
That I am here before Thy sight,
For gifts an grace
A burning and a shining light
To a' this place.

What was I, or my generation,
That I should get sic exaltation?
I, wha deserv'd most just damnation
For broken laws,
Sax thousand years ere my creation,
Thro Adam's cause!

When from my mither's womb I fell,
Thou might hae plung'd me deep in Hell,
To gnash my gooms, and weep and wail,
In burning lakes,
Whare damned devils roar and yell,
Chain'd to their stakes.

Yet I am here a chosen sample,
To show Thy grace is great and ample:
I'm here a pillar o Thy temple,
Strong as a rock,
A guide, a buckler, and example,
To a' Thy flock!

But yet, O Lord! confess I must,
At times I'm fash'd wi fleshy lust;
An sometimes, too, in warldly trust,
Vile self gets in;
But Thou remembers we are dust,
Defil'd wi sin.

O Lord! yestreen, Thou kens, wi Meg
Thy pardon I sincerely beg
O, may't ne'er be a livin plague
To my dishonour!
An I'll ne'er lift a lawless leg
Again upon her.

Besides, I farther maun avow,
Wi Leezie's lass, three times I trow
But, Lord, that Friday I was fou,
When I cam near her,
Or else, Thou kens, Thy servant true
Wad never steer her.

Maybe Thou lets this fleshly thorn
Buffet Thy servant e'en and morn,
Lest he owre proud and high should turn,
That he's sae gifted:
If sae, Thy han' maun e'en be borne,
Until Thou lift it.

Lord, bless Thy chosen in this place,
For here Thou has a chosen race!
But God confound their stubborn face,
An blast their name,
Wha bring Thy elders to disgrace
An open shame.

Lord, mind Gau'n Hamilton's deserts:
He drinks, an swears, an plays at cartes,
Yet has sae monie takin arts,
Wi great and sma',
Frae God's ain Priest the people's hearts
He steals awa.

And when we chasten'd him therefore,
Thou kens how he bred sic a splore,
And set the warld in a roar
O laughin at us;
Curse Thou his basket and his store,
Kail an potatoes!

Lord, hear my earnest cry and pray'r,
Against that Presbyt'ry o Ayr!
Thy strong right hand, Lord, mak it bare
Upo' their heads!
Lord, visit them, an dinna spare,
For their misdeeds!

197

DEZes Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:45pm

Well this old man is gonna go let the cats torment him.
Good night all.

198

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:48pm

re: #192 Kenneth

Sweet.

aye that she was that she was

199

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:57pm

re: #189 Kenneth
Really struck me who precisent the poem is, given the crumbling of empires.

200

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:36:59pm

Here's a good Kipling poem to praise the NATO ships working to patrol the sea lanes:

Cruisers

1899

As our mother the Frigate, bepainted and fine,
Made play for her bully the Ship of the Line;
So we, her bold daughters by iron and fire,
Accost and decoy to our masters' desire.

Now, pray you, consider what toils we endure,
Night-walking wet sea-lanes, a guard and a lure;
Since half of our trade is that same pretty sort
As mettlesome wenches do practise in port.

For this is our office: to spy and make room,
As hiding yet guiding the foe to their doom.
Surrounding, confounding, we bait and betray
And tempt them to battle the seas' width away.

The pot-bellied merchant foreboding no wrong
With headlight and sidelight he lieth along,
Till, lightless and lightfoot and lurking, leap we
To force him discover his business by sea.

And when we have wakened the lust of a foe,
To draw him by flight toward our bullies we go,
Till, 'ware of strange smoke stealing nearer, he flies
Or our bullies close in for to make him good prize.

So, when we have spied on the path of their host,
One flieth to carry that word to the coast;
And, lest by false doublings they turn and go free,
One lieth behind them to follow and see.

Anon we return, being gathered again,
Across the sad valleys all drabbled with rain --
Across the grey ridges all crisped and curled --
To join the long dance round the curve of the world.

The bitter salt spindrift, the sun-glare likewise,
The moon-track a-tremble, bewilders our eyes,
Where, linking and lifting, our sisters we hail
'Twixt wrench of cross-surges or plunge of head-gale.

As maidens awaiting the bride to come forth
Make play with light jestings and wit of no worth,
So, widdershins circling the bride-bed of death,
Each fleereth her neighbour and signeth and saith: --

"What see ye? Their signals, or levin afar?
"What hear ye? God's thunder, or guns of our war?
"What mark ye? Their smoke, or the cloud-rack outblown?
"What chase ye? Their lights, or the Daystar low down?"

So, times past all number deceived by false shows,
Deceiving we cumber the road of our foes,
For this is our virtue: to track and betray;
Preparing great battles a sea's width away.

Now peace is at end and our peoples take heart,
For the laws are clean gone that restrained our art;
Up and down the near headlands and against the far wind
We are loosed (O be swift!) to the work of our kind!

201

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:38:16pm

re: #177 Truck Monkey

When you think about it, it really wasn't that long ago. How many survivors are left?

WWII vets are leaving us at an alarming rate (may God rest their souls); they were in their late teens to thirties...many of the survivors of the Nazi camps were children.

Is there a source where I can look this up?

202

aboo-Hoo-Hoo Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:38:36pm

re: #173 ArmyWife

I have pictures of Mr. ArmyWife with panties on his head.

Now that we can fix! Post'em. :-)

203

_RememberTonyC Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:38:46pm

Charles ... When you post stories like this, you do the world a great service. It is the reason so many on this board will always be in your corner. You are fair, you cut through the bullshit, and your credibility is unmatched. Dennis Prager was right when he called you a great man.

Thank You.

204

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:38:57pm

re: #199 Mithrax

Really struck me who precisent the poem is, given the crumbling of empires.

Me too, except that unlike the physical empire that was crumbling at that time, today, the empire that is threatened and wavering is not a physical one, but one of ideas - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

205

Captain Amercia Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:39:07pm

re: #201 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When you think about it, it really wasn't that long ago. How many survivors are left?

WWII vets are leaving us at an alarming rate (may God rest their souls); they were in their late teens to thirties...many of the survivors of the Nazi camps were children.

Is there a source where I can look this up?

I remember seeing Major Dick Winters (of Band of Brothers fame) at the RNC during McCain's speech. God bless them all.

206

Mithrax Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:40:38pm

One more for our vets:

Tommy - Kipling

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

207

OldLineTexan Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:41:20pm

re: #205 Captain Amercia

I remember seeing Major Dick Winters (of Band of Brothers fame) at the RNC during McCain's speech. God bless them all.

The DVD set with the documentary disc is a favorite of mine.

I met a WWII vet greeting at Wal-Mart ... he was 94.

208

jim in virginia Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:42:36pm

Another sign of the coming apocalypse: Willie Nelson and Ray Price are on Huckabee. And the three of them are playing Faded Love.
Shoot me now, please.

209

UncleRancher Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:43:15pm

Well I see it's time to go feed the livestock again. Cheerio.

210

Athos Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:44:03pm

re: #201 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

WWII vets are leaving us at an alarming rate (may God rest their souls); they were in their late teens to thirties...many of the survivors of the Nazi camps were children.

On another site, I found this speech to a group of WWII vets - Speech by Judge Vince Okamoto at the 66th Anniversay of the 442nd Combat Team on March 29, 2009 in Honolulu.

Veterans are many of the men in this room today; each with their own compelling story. Each of whom left their homes, families, and loved ones and went off to war with no expectation of reward or even thank you, but went because they felt it was their duty, and went because someone had to go.

In our society some men are lionized for their great wealth, or their political power, or their social position. Some are renowned for their athletic ability. Others are accorded celebrity status as film stars or rock icons. But of all the titles in the world I believe the proudest is that of veteran because it refers to an individual who was willing to give up everything for America.

In William Shakespeare’s play “Henry the 5th,” the king of England on the eve of the last great battle of the One Hundred Years War, stood before his beleaguered and out numbered soldiers and said to them,

”We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, for he who sheds his blood with me this day until the ending of the world is my brother.”

The veterans who wore the uniform of this country are a brotherhood. They represent less than 7% of the population making them members of the most exclusive fraternity in America, forever connected by a shared sense of duty, commitment and willingness to sacrifice their lives that set them apart and make them different from everyone else in our society.

To the young people in the audience tonight…I say remember and honor those who fought, bled, and died for you. Remember that the blessings and unlimited opportunities we Japanese Americans enjoy today are ours in large measure because we stand on the shoulders of giants; men small in stature, but titans in courage, the soldiers of the 442nd RCT.

What they did allowed and prepared us their beneficiaries to live in a larger and better world.

We owe a debt to all of our veterans for their sacrifice that can be only partially paid by our dedication to the values of this country.

We also owe a debt of all of the victims of evil. Never Again.

211

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:44:16pm

re: #208 jim in virginia

Another sign of the coming apocalypse: Willie Nelson and Ray Price are on Huckabee. And the three of them are playing Faded Love.
Shoot me now, please.

Ahem. Uh, Jim? Why you watching?

212

Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:44:35pm

re: #201 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yad Vashem has good resources.
www.yadvashem.org

213

Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:45:33pm

re: #189 Kenneth

America in the Age of Obama!

What that has to do with Obama is known only to you. I guess any rope will do if you're in a hurry to beat a horse.

214

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:45:59pm

re: #154 LGoPs

I imagine that quibbling wouldn't measure up....huh? Only thing I'm good at..........
/ :)

I should clarify that it is mud yard quibbling that I am good at......

215

jim in virginia Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:46:01pm

re: #211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's Faux News or some awful cartoon which I made my daughter turn off. You don't expect me to watch CNN or MSNBC do you?

216

itellu3times Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:46:20pm

re: #184 Mithrax

...
Thy mercy on Thy people, Lord!

quicksilver messenger service

Turn around,
go back down,
back the way you came,
Can't you see that flash of fire ten times brighter than the day?
And behold a mighty city broken in the dust again,
Oh God, Pride of Man, broken in the dust again.

Turn around,
go back down,
back the way you came,
Babylon is laid to waste, Egypt's buried in her shame,
The mighty men are all beaten down, their kings are fallen in the ways,
Oh God, Pride of Man, broken in the dust again.

Turn around,
go back down,
back the way you came,
Terror is on every side, lo our leaders are dismayed.
For those who place their faith in fire, their faith in fire shall be repaid,
Oh God, Pride of Man, broken in the dust again.

Turn around,
go back down,
back the way you came,
And shout a warning unto the nation that the sword of God is raised.
Yes, Babylon, that mighty city, rich in treasures, wide in fame,
Oh God, Pride of Man, broken in the dust again.

The meek shall cause your tower to fall, make of you a pyre of flame,
Oh you who dwell on many waters, rich in treasures, wide in fame.
you bow unto your God of gold, your pride of might shall be a shame,
For only God can lead His people back unto the Earth again.

Oh God, Pride of Man, broken in the dust again.
A Holy mountain be restored, and mercy on thy people, thy people Lord!

217

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:47:00pm

re: #197 DEZes

Well this old man is gonna go let the cats torment him.
Good night all.

See ya DEZ....
{DEZ}

218

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:47:22pm

re: #215 jim in virginia

Turn the damn thing off. I'm watching Mythbusters! Awesome episode!

219

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:47:55pm

re: #213 Cato the Elder

It's about the decline of empire. That applies to the Age of Obama.

220

LGoPs Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:48:47pm

re: #205 Captain Amercia

I remember seeing Major Dick Winters (of Band of Brothers fame) at the RNC during McCain's speech. God bless them all.

Pleased to hear that he's on our side.

221

Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 19, 2009 5:56:25pm

re: #219 Kenneth

It's about the decline of empire. That applies to the Age of Obama.

But...but...I thought America wasn't an empire?!

If it is - all right, it is - then the decline was well underway in the Age of Bush II, the Age of Clinton, the Age of Bush I...with a bit of a resurgence under Reagan...the Age of Carter, the Age of Ford, the Age of Nixon...need I continue?

Empires decline and fall. America will be no exception.

Be Angry At The Sun

That public men publish falsehoods
Is nothing new. That America must accept
Like the historical republics corruption and empire
Has been known for years.

Be angry at the sun for setting
If these things anger you. Watch the wheel slope and turn,
They are all bound on the wheel, these people, those warriors.
This republic, Europe, Asia.

Observe them gesticulating,
Observe them going down. The gang serves lies, the passionate
Man plays his part; the cold passion for truth
Hunts in no pack.

You are not Catullus, you know,
To lampoon these crude sketches of Caesar. You are far
From Dante's feet, but even farther from his dirty
Political hatreds.

Let boys want pleasure, and men
Struggle for power, and women perhaps for fame,
And the servile to serve a Leader and the dupes to be duped.
Yours is not theirs.

--Robinson Jeffers

222

Kenneth Sun, Apr 19, 2009 6:34:03pm

re: #221 Cato the Elder

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

And so it goes...

223

Avary Sun, Apr 19, 2009 7:19:39pm

In 1995, for example, the water supply for Mogadishu, the capital, was shut off by the United Nations humanitarian agencies until a hostage who worked for another aid organization was released.

Wait... Isn't collective punishment a crime?

224

[deleted] Sun, Apr 19, 2009 7:49:31pm

225

Zimriel Sun, Apr 19, 2009 8:35:16pm

re: #194 jhrhv

Its my belief that no government even a bunch of heavily armed thugs like the hamassholes could survive a real popular uprising.

I disagree; I think that any competent dictatorship given a mid-1930s level of technology, and given enough funds to bribe over half the armed proportion of the populace, is uprising-proof. Gaza is uprising-proof.

The truth probably is if the people didn't rise up against the thugs Israel would turn the water back on before people died because they just aren't that heartless. Apparently the people in Somalia had a good notion the UN would let them die if they didn't get what they wanted.

There you've hit on it.

Somalis have been despised by the world; until now that they've turned to piracy, such that they're actively hated.

The same could be said about Palestinians, given the messes they've made in Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait etc. If Gaza were located near, say, Hama in Syria it would have been a place for archaeologists to dig over by now. But Gaza isn't in Syria; it's on the Israeli side of the Sinai border. Gaza is kept the way it is because of international antiSemitism.

There aren't any Jews to hate in Somalia; there are only Somalis. And the Somalis know that, which is why the UN feels comfortable doing whatever they like to keep the Somalis in line.

226

odorlesspaintthinner Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:16:51am

re: #58 LGoPs

It is instructive that even in this action, the UN apparently used innocent women to do its bidding. And no doubt put those same women at risk since they were the ones confronting the kidnappers......
Pathetic.

Hmmm...I disagree. This is what is supposed to happen. The day the Palestinians direct their kids to throw stones at their real oppressors, Hamas, Fatah, et al, is the day there will be hope for peace.

227

kevrobin45 Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:18:56am

Well said Charles! Keep up the good work.

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