Creationists Sue Texas Over Denial of Master’s Program

Science • Views: 1,742

Here’s our ludicrous creationist news of the day.

After failing to get the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board to accredit them to offer a master’s degree in science education, the Biblical literalists at the Institute for Creation Research are actually suing the state of Texas.

That’s right. They wanted Texas to let them train science teachers in young earth creationism, so they could hand out totally undeserved master’s degrees that would allow these bogus science teachers to indoctrinate children with their hooey! And now they’re taking Texas to court over it.

I’m trying not to laugh over here, and failing miserably.

The Institute for Creation Research has taken its fight to train future science teachers to the courthouse.

The Dallas-based creationist group alleges that its civil rights were violated by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board. Last year, the state agency denied the institute permission to offer a master’s degree in science education, saying the program did not meet state academic standards.

The lawsuit, filed last week in U.S. District Court, alleges that the coordinating board discriminated against the institute because of its views on evolution. [What was their first clue? – ed.]

Raymund Paredes, the state’s higher education commissioner, has said that the proposed master’s program would not prepare future educators to teach science standards in Texas public school classrooms.

Institute leaders have said they would teach both the creationist and evolutionist views, but that their group favors the former.

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391 comments

1 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:47:46pm

What could you possibly do with a masters in creationism except for propagate the narrative in schools across the land.

2 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:49:14pm

Go over to mythology, next door.

3 jdog29  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:49:22pm

re: #1 Truck Monkey

What could you possibly do with a masters in creationism except for propagate the narrative in schools across the land.

As the comedian Richard Lewis explained the value of a poli sci degree, "It's like AMWAY with a football team."

4 Shug  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:49:24pm

How long does it take to get a Masters Degree in Young Earth Science?

6 days ?

5 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:50:44pm

So one can rise beyond one's own level of incompetence.

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:51:09pm

So now it's a "civil right" to get accreditation for teaching religious fables as science?

How is this not a leftist tactic?

7 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:51:35pm

Call me crazy, but I don't think that federal judges will take a lawsuit claiming a right to subvert the Constitution very well. I'd say this suit gets tossed on summery judgment. I'd also say that the Institute for Creation Research should be required to pay for the state's legal fees.

8 BignJames  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:51:51pm

Litigate! It's the American way!

9 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:52:02pm

then again, but on the other hand that degree sounds mouth full

10 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:52:12pm

Calling the first meltdown early -- I'll say #157. The crazy is strong tonight.

11 Racer X  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:52:22pm

In related news,

The View Near a Black Hole

12 reine.de.tout  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:52:36pm
The lawsuit, filed last week in U.S. District Court, alleges that the coordinating board discriminated against the institute because of its views on evolution

Is any particular "view on evolution" a "protected" class?

13 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:53:29pm

re: #10 doppelganglander

Calling the first meltdown early -- I'll say #157. The crazy is strong tonight.

Before 100.

14 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:54:14pm

re: #13 Irish Rose

Before 100.

before 75?

15 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:54:22pm

re: #13 Irish Rose

If we put $$ on it I can do it now and we can split the money!

16 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:54:22pm

Here, socky socky socky.....

17 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:54:28pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

So now it's a "civil right" to get accreditation for teaching religious fables as science?

How is this not a leftist tactic?

It is a leftist tactic, adopted by the creationist right. Yet another example of extremes meeting in moronic convergence.

18 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:54:46pm

Might be time for the YECers to start submitting their "science" for peer review in the science community. Doesn't mean they'll get anyone to agree on their fables but it should at least be entertaining for the rest of us.

19 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:11pm

re: #16 Irish Rose

Here, socky socky socky.....

over/under 100 posts.

20 kansas  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:18pm

Same impression I get when I hear the term "Islamic Scholar."

21 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:23pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

It is a leftist tactic, adopted by the creationist right. Yet another example of extremes meeting in moronic convergence.

Kind of like Hitler and Lenin meeting at the bottom of the same circle.

22 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:34pm

re: #10 doppelganglander

Calling the first meltdown early -- I'll say #157. The crazy is strong tonight.

I'll go with 132 for first meltdown.

23 Bloodnok  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:37pm

There is some funny stuff at the ICR homepage.

Stone Blades Cut Back Evolutionary Dates

Evolutionary anthropologists once thought that stone knives were developed in the late Stone Age, around 40,000 years ago. That figure was later revised to 200,000, around the Middle Stone Age, when stone blades were discovered in lower strata.

Now stone blades have been found in Kenyan rock layers dated at about 500,000 years old according to evolutionary estimates. Thus, the original claim that “40,000 years ago, man made his first stone implements” was off by over 92 percent, suggesting that evolutionary depictions of human history are unreliable.

Yup. Creationists penalizing science for challenging itself testing its results and becoming more accurate. Something their own theory can't do.

...the stone knives were most likely made somewhere on the order of several thousand years ago, at least since the time of the Tower of Babel, circa 2200 B.C.

I'll see your rock layer dating and raise you a "most likely". Science!

24 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:38pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

It is a leftist tactic, adopted by the creationist right. Yet another example of extremes meeting in moronic convergence.

The slippery slope of the Creationist Agenda.

25 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:48pm

They are doing this because Berman's bill is probably not going to get out of committee, there are some smart Republicans in Texas, even though it's Ron Paul's state.

26 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:55:54pm

re: #21 Truck Monkey

Kind of like Hitler and Lenin meeting at the bottom of the same circle.

Exactly like that.

27 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:56:00pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

I'll go with 132 for first meltdown.

are u playing game post is right?
////

28 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:56:29pm

re: #14 Gella

before 75?

How about precisely at post number 28

29 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:56:55pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

How about precisely at post number 28

post is right?
///

30 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:57:26pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

How about precisely at post number 28

What kind of meltdown was that? I have seen your work and believe you can do better.

31 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:58:01pm

re: #23 Bloodnok

There is some funny stuff at the ICR homepage.

Stone Blades Cut Back Evolutionary Dates

I'll see your rock layer dating and raise you a "most likely". Science!

Nutcases always pounce on self-correction as weakness. It's one of their worst traits, as it tends to makes others unwilling to admit error, thus increasing intolerance in general.

32 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:58:04pm
33 reine.de.tout  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:58:59pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

How about precisely at post number 28

How did you do that?
referenced post #28 as post #28?

34 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:59:30pm

re: #33 reine.de.tout

How did you do that?
referenced post #28 as post #28?

speedy fingers :)

35 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:59:47pm

re: #32 buzzsawmonkey

I love the Stone Blades. Their recent CD, "cro-Magnon Whoopee" was a mammoth hit.

The "evolution" of "rock" and roll.

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:00:11pm

re: #30 Truck Monkey

What kind of meltdown was that? I have seen your work and believe you can do better.

Yeah, I'm not 100% today. At some point last night I decided I would spend all day today hungover. I don't really recall making that decision, but I was the only one with the beer, so it had to have been me.

37 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:01:08pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, I'm not 100% today. At some point last night I decided I would spend all day today hungover. I don't really recall making that decision, but I was the only one with the beer, so it had to have been me.

You could blame Obama.

38 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:01:09pm

Whee, been busy with kid's baseball (and work) for the last few days. Wifey is watching Dancing with the Stars, and I just stumbled onto my own entertainment.

*popping popcorn*

39 jdog29  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:01:09pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Call me crazy, but I don't think that federal judges will take a lawsuit claiming a right to subvert the Constitution very well. I'd say this suit gets tossed on summery judgment. I'd also say that the Institute for Creation Research should be required to pay for the state's legal fees.


You're crazy.
They'll hear it out for the entertainment value alone. I think the creationist are hoping it gets thrown out

40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:01:53pm

re: #33 reine.de.tout

How did you do that?
referenced post #28 as post #28?

Secret Illuminaughty powers. If I told you, I'd have to kiss you.

/wait, is that how it works?

41 irongrampa  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:02:03pm

That ICR article did have some impressive spin, so there's that, I guess.

42 ArmyWife  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:02:04pm

re: #37 Truck Monkey

Who, in turn, could blame Bush. The circle of life.

43 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:02:34pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

It is a leftist tactic, adopted by the creationist right. Yet another example of extremes meeting in moronic convergence.

Kind of like the socialists and fascists. Two ends of the same circle. :)

44 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:02:41pm

re: #32 buzzsawmonkey

I love the Stone Blades. Their recent CD, "cro-Magnon Whoopee" was a mammoth hit.

I prefer the classic "Pterodactyal Tango."
I think it was originally released on vinyl, but the group has evolved since then.

45 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:02:50pm

re: #23 Bloodnok

There is some funny stuff at the ICR homepage.

Stone Blades Cut Back Evolutionary Dates

I'll see your rock layer dating and raise you a "most likely". Science!

Wow. This guys writes a "blog entry" with a giant MS attached to his name and they're calling it "science." Looks more like a short an op/ed masquerading as a theory -- at the very most.

46 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:03:10pm

re: #21 Truck Monkey

Kind of like Hitler and Lenin meeting at the bottom of the same circle.

Damn! you beat me to it.

47 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:03:24pm

There's no civil rights issue here. They are not among the protected classes. I smell a motion to dismiss.

48 ArmyWife  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:03:29pm

The good news is the "standards" included evolution. Celebrate!

49 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:03:55pm
50 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:04:06pm

re: #42 ArmyWife

Who, in turn, could blame Bush. The circle of life.

Kind of like Hitler and Stalin meeting at the bottom of the same circle?

51 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:04:25pm

Time to walk the dog. If you catch a troll, save me a piece.

52 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:04:29pm

re: #44 transient

I prefer the classic "Pterodactyal Tango."


Drat, drat, PIMF. Pterodactyl. My dactyls are not tangoing well tonight.

53 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:04:45pm

re: #37 Truck Monkey

I can, and I will.

"Curse you, Obama! Your administration has driven me to drink! Can you get it to drive me home, now"?

54 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:05:27pm

re: #49 buzzsawmonkey

Tricera-Top of the Pops plays some wonderful stuff.

T-Rex hasn't been able to compete for any chart hits after their extinction following the death of Marc Bolan.

55 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:05:36pm

"The ICR adopts the Bible as an inerrant and literal documentary of scientific and historical fact as well as religious and moral truths, and espouses a Young Earth creationist world view.[3] It strongly rejects the science of evolutionary biology, which it views as a corrupting moral and social influence and threat to religious belief."

"Zardoz" comes to mind..........

56 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:05:56pm

re: #47 calcajun

There's no civil rights issue here. They are not among the protected classes. I smell a motion to dismiss.

If they try the "freedom of religion" angle, that automatically takes them out of the realm of science, but it's the only thin reed they have to grab at.

57 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:06:00pm

re: #37 Truck Monkey

You could blame Obama.

Clearly DHS' fault.

58 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:06:23pm
59 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:06:58pm

Interesting how they support states rights until the state doesn't agree with them.

60 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:07:19pm

Email from an admirer, titled "Why Are You Betraying Us, Charles?"

You are betraying everything you once stood for; for America, and against the Neo-Fascist, Soros-controlled Islamic Appeasing Democrats. You're helping Obama, and you know it.

Please, Chuck, same sanity is needed, otherwise you'll end up as looney as Cindy Sleazehand.

Always with the "Chuck."

61 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:07:28pm

If this religious, pseudoscientific organization has a "civil right" to teach "science," then someone should just hand me a divinity degree and I'll go get a job as a pastor.

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:07:36pm

re: #55 IslandLibertarian

Well, I bet you could find a few in that crowd who believe that the penis is evil.

63 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:08:14pm

re: #23 Bloodnok
Evolutionary anthropologists once thought that stone knives were developed in the late Stone Age, around 40,000 years ago. That figure was later revised to 200,000, around the Middle Stone Age, when stone blades were discovered in lower strata.

Now stone blades have been found in Kenyan rock layers dated at about 500,000 years old according to evolutionary estimates. Thus, the original claim that “40,000 years ago, man made his first stone implements” was off by over 92 percent, suggesting that evolutionary depictions of human history are unreliable.

Yup. Creationists penalizing science for challenging itself testing its results and becoming more accurate. Something their own theory can't do.

...the stone knives were most likely made somewhere on the order of several thousand years ago, at least since the time of the Tower of Babel, circa 2200 B.C.

I'll see your rock layer dating and raise you a "most likely". Science!

There is some funny stuff at the ICR homepage.

Stone Blades Cut Back Evolutionary Dates

I'll see your rock layer dating and raise you a "most likely". Science!

Not just that, but actually imagine that you have multiple working hypotheses and you are actually (as a scientist) open-minded enough to refine your idea as more evidence becomes available.

64 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:08:18pm

re: #25 Thanos

They are doing this because Berman's bill is probably not going to get out of committee, there are some smart Republicans in Texas, even though it's Ron Paul's state.

Ron Paul represents one Congressional District in Texas. That's bad enough, granted.

There were 32 members of Congress from Texas in the 108th.

It ain't HIS state, it's his 3%. Heck, he may not even be the most embarrassing person Texas sent to the Congress, as there is always (apparently) Sheila Jackson-Lee.

/

65 nyc redneck  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:08:41pm

hmmm, a faith based master's degree in science ed. ?
well, i want a master's degree in science ed. and i want to map out my own
program. i want to put on a different flowing, doubled tiered, silk chiffon dress once a week and do interpretive dance to interpret evolution.
starting at 5 billion yrs. ago w/ the big bang event, i can dance forward thru the eras and bring to life the study of evolution thru movement.
:D

wow, it is weird, how anybody can get a degree in almost anything today.
it really makes you worry abt, the level of education provided to students.

66 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:08:47pm

You can get a master's in creationism any time you want.

Look under Theology.

67 ArmyWife  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:08:55pm

re: #60 Charles

I don't get the "Chuck". Is that supposed to be endearing or something? Don't they know its Chas? ;)

68 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:09:02pm

re: #60 Charles

Email from an admirer, titled "Why Are You Betraying Us, Charles?"


Always with the "Chuck."

And thats exactly what you should do with that e-mail

CHUCK it

69 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:09:45pm

re: #64 OldLineTexan

Ron Paul represents one Congressional District in Texas. That's bad enough, granted.

There were 32 members of Congress from Texas in the 108th.

It ain't HIS state, it's his 3%. Heck, he may not even be the most embarrassing person Texas sent to the Congress, as there is always (apparently) Sheila Jackson-Lee.

/

Ok, you do have a good point. Most Texans I know are pretty reasonable people.

70 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:09:55pm

can somebody please explain to me, how religion is science?

71 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:10:10pm

re: #64 OldLineTexan

Ron Paul represents one Congressional District in Texas. That's bad enough, granted.

There were 32 members of Congress from Texas in the 108th.

It ain't HIS state, it's his 3%. Heck, he may not even be the most embarrassing person Texas sent to the Congress, as there is always (apparently) Sheila Jackson-Lee.

/

As bad as Paul is ,,,,, Lee is head and shoulders ( and chest, stomach and hips) above him for "embarrassing"

72 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:11:00pm

re: #70 Gella

can somebody please explain to me, how religion is science?

When it's wielded as an instrument for political power.

73 Bloodnok  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:11:15pm

re: #60 Charles

Email from an admirer, titled "Why Are You Betraying Us, Charles?"

Please, Chuck, same sanity is needed, otherwise you'll end up as looney as Cindy Sleazehand.

For Charles

74 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:11:22pm

re: #23 Bloodnok

There is some funny stuff at the ICR homepage.

Stone Blades Cut Back Evolutionary Dates

I'll see your rock layer dating and raise you a "most likely". Science!

Oh, and to follow up, the YEC's are claiming that "the original claim that “40,000 years ago, man made his first stone implements” was off by over 92 percent..." They conveniently forgot to state how far off it would be with their date of 2,000 years.

75 nyc redneck  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:11:23pm

and btw, i have no real training in interpretive dance but i could do it.
and make it relevant.

76 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:11:34pm

re: #60 Charles

Email from an admirer, titled "Why Are You Betraying Us, Charles?"

Always with the "Chuck."

Does this mean Soros payed for the 12 bedroom mansion you just moved into?

//

77 Rishonah  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:12:10pm

Watching these loons is so much fun that I wish I had the popcorn concession. Seriously, every time I think they have hit rock bottom on their race to Ultimate Stupidity, they get a better shovel and keep digging.

78 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:12:16pm

Wow. Discovery Institute "senior fellow" David Klinghoffer's latest article is so insanely over the top it seems like a parody. But it's not.

Slouching Toward Columbine: Darwin's Tree of Death.

The image, and today's gruesome Columbine anniversary, provide an occasion to reflect on Darwinian evolution's social consequences, from school shootings to Nazi racism and more.

Charles Darwin's theory of evolution with its Tree of Life is applauded by most sophisticated Americans and Europeans as a scientific idea pure and simple, without the aura of dread and terror that, properly, should surround it in our minds.

79 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:13:40pm

re: #60 Charles

Email from an admirer, titled "Why Are You Betraying Us, Charles?"


Always with the "Chuck."

Using the diminutive is a reflection of the pettiness of the author of the e-mail and diminishes, if not totally negates, whatever point he/she/it is trying to make.
You don't need my advice obviously but I'd love to see you answer back..."That's Mr. Charles to you...."

80 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:14:04pm

re: #69 Thanos

Ok, you do have a good point. Most Texans I know are pretty reasonable people.

OTOH, his district KEEPS ELECTING HIM!

YEEEEEEEAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!

/Dean moment

81 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:14:14pm

re: #77 Rishonah

Watching these loons is so much fun that I wish I had the popcorn concession. Seriously, every time I think they have hit rock bottom on their race to Ultimate Stupidity, they get a better shovel and keep digging.

At the rate they're going, they'll be China's problem by the end of the year.

82 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:14:15pm

Homer's Evolution

83 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:14:33pm

re: #70 Gella

can somebody please explain to me, how religion is science?

More recently evolved parts of the brain seem to be carried away with "what if" scenarios. Evolutionary trait. It seems that particular part of the brain needs something to latch onto. That's my theory.

84 TheAntichrist  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:14:43pm

When they say they would teach the 'evolutionist view" also I'm picturing the way Ms. Garrison taught it to the South Park kids.

85 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:14:45pm

re: #78 Charles

Wow. Discovery Institute "senior fellow" David Klinghoffer's latest article is so insanely over the top it seems like a parody. But it's not.

Slouching Toward Columbine: Darwin's Tree of Death.

A senior fellow no less. Let's see Darwin caused Columbine. Perhaps he can submit that to either his anthropological or sociological peers for review. No wait, he doesn't have any peers.

Is he a dentist by any chance?

86 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:15:51pm

The Discovery Institute should change its name. They've all settled for being essayists, not discoverers.

87 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:16:08pm

re: #78 Charles

Wow. Discovery Institute "senior fellow" David Klinghoffer's latest article is so insanely over the top it seems like a parody. But it's not.

Slouching Toward Columbine: Darwin's Tree of Death.

Bad, crazy, sick. Claiming that Darwin's scientific work lead to two monsters opening fire in a school is Bark-At-The-Moon-Crazy.

88 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:17:16pm

re: #70 Gella

can somebody please explain to me, how religion is science?

Ask Mary Baker Eddy.

/

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:17:56pm

re: #78 Charles

I don't know what that guy is talking about. All of my immoral habits stem from saturday morning cartoons in the '70s, lawn darts, and marathon sessions of tic-tac-throw.

90 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:18:05pm

What the religious right doesn't seem to grasp is how life affirming biology and evolution are. It's through my study on evolution that I've come to the conclusion that life begins at conception. It's an amazing process! Instead- they want to shun the very science that would be particularly useful in underscoring one of their other pet issues, which is abortion. They know not what they do.

91 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:18:21pm

re: #65 nyc redneck

hmmm, a faith based master's degree in science ed. ?
well, i want a master's degree in science ed. and i want to map out my own
program. i want to put on a different flowing, doubled tiered, silk chiffon dress once a week and do interpretive dance to interpret evolution.
starting at 5 billion yrs. ago w/ the big bang event, i can dance forward thru the eras and bring to life the study of evolution thru movement.
:D

wow, it is weird, how anybody can get a degree in almost anything today.
it really makes you worry abt, the level of education NOT provided to students.

FIFY.

92 ArmyWife  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:18:28pm

My stomach is hurting all of a sudden, so I'm going to go lay down and read. Behave, my friends.

I'll check in tomorrow if I can - I'm negotiating a contract with one of the unions and my new team over the next few days so who knows when I'll be getting home. Hold down the fort for me, ok?

93 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:18:37pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Bad, crazy, sick. Claiming that Darwin's scientific work lead to two monsters opening fire in a school is Bark-At-The-Moon-Crazy.

When every sane leftist has been telling you for ten years it was teh gunz!

/

94 solomonpanting  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:18:51pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

So now it's a "civil right" to get accreditation for teaching religious fables as science?

If receiving accreditation for teaching ID was not a civil right it would be necessary to create one.

95 Bloodnok  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:18:57pm

I am loving this "Brian Thomas M.S.*" guy that writes at the ICR page. He's a hoot.

The First and Best Biotechnician

Cloning, tissue culture, and gene therapy occur in the wild and yet have been extraordinarily difficult for mankind to reverse-engineer. It makes sense, therefore, that a greater Engineer was responsible for their inception. Through amoebas making clones, aphids culturing plant tissue, and wasps altering genes, nature clearly shows that God is the ultimate Biotechnician.

Again with the biotech!

96 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:19:04pm

re: #62 Slumbering Behemoth

I know that crowd.
Among MANY other things, yes they do, and more than a few.

97 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:19:26pm

re: #88 OldLineTexan

Ask Mary Baker Eddy.

/

honestly i want to as Church Lady that question
////
[Link: www.hulu.com...]

98 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:19:32pm

re: #70 Gella

can somebody please explain to me, how religion is science?

Short answer, NO.

99 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:19:37pm

re: #90 Sharmuta

These people do not represent the religious right in toto.

They are a disturbing part of it.

100 CyanSnowSock  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:19:46pm

re: #16 Irish Rose

Here, socky socky socky.....

And just what is wrong with socks?
/

101 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:20:10pm

re: #98 Unakite

Short answer, NO.

same here, just because i have a degree in real science

102 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:20:17pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Bad, crazy, sick. Claiming that Darwin's scientific work lead to two monsters opening fire in a school is Bark-At-The-Moon-Crazy.

I'm looking at this too. The man is a stark raving lunatic and mentions neo-Nazis, David Duke, Eliot Spitzer, prostitution and everything else under the sun.

Could you imagine having someone like this teaching kids? He'd be the one creating the social monsters.

103 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:20:58pm

ok lizards its almost hockey time for me :)

104 Bloodnok  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:20:59pm

re: #78 Charles

That is twisted.

105 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:21:04pm

re: #78 Charles

Columbine became the most notorious of school shootings, inspiring imitators including Pekka Eric Auvinen, a Finnish high school student. On November 7, 2007, Auvinen showed up at his own school, Jokela High in Tuusula, Finland, with a small-caliber handgun. He proceeded to massacre seven fellow students and the school headmistress, wounding ten others, before shooting himself.

On a website, it was later learned, he described himself as an "anti-social social-Darwinist," declaring that "I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection."


The irony was presumably completely lost on this Darwin Award winner.

106 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:21:07pm

re: #20 kansas

Same impression I get when I hear the term "Islamic Scholar."

I call myself an "Orientalist".

107 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:21:21pm

re: #78 Charles

Wow. Discovery Institute "senior fellow" David Klinghoffer's latest article is so insanely over the top it seems like a parody. But it's not.

Slouching Toward Columbine: Darwin's Tree of Death.

So a murderous rampage is "natural selection?"

Lot's of folks need to brush up on terminology. From what theory means to natural selection and many others.

108 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:21:24pm

re: #75 nyc redneck

and btw, i have no real training in interpretive dance but i could do it.
and make it relevant.

Only because you could convince enough that it is relevant.

109 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:21:37pm

re: #80 OldLineTexan

OTOH, his district KEEPS ELECTING HIM!

YEEEEEEEAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!

/Dean moment

Don't feel bad, I come from Brownback's state...

110 pre-Boomer's SockPuppy  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:21:51pm

re: #16 Irish Rose

Here, socky socky socky.....

re: #100 CyanSnowSock

And just what is wrong with socks?
/

Is someone bashing socks?

111 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:21:59pm

re: #102 Gus 802

I'm looking at this too. The man is a stark raving lunatic and mentions neo-Nazis, David Duke, Eliot Spitzer, prostitution and everything else under the sun.

Could you imagine having someone like this teaching kids? He'd be the one creating the social monsters.

That's not the worst part; The worst part is that he would think he was teaching the kids to be good Christians. That's the part that keeps me awake at night.

112 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:22:11pm

re: #78 Charles

Wow. Discovery Institute "senior fellow" David Klinghoffer's latest article is so insanely over the top it seems like a parody. But it's not.

Slouching Toward Columbine: Darwin's Tree of Death.

WTH? Calling these people deranged doesn't even begin to cover it.

113 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:22:28pm

re: #93 OldLineTexan

When every sane leftist has been telling you for ten years it was teh gunz!

/

And the propane gas cylinders.

Don't forget those.

114 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:22:29pm

re: #96 IslandLibertarian

Ah, but do they also believe that the gun is good? That would be the clincher.

115 BigAl  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:22:34pm

I guess, but I don't really know...this must be important stuff.

116 Gus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:22:50pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

That's not the worst part; The worst part is that he would think he was teaching the kids to be good Christians. That's the part that keeps me awake at night.

For sure. I think the man is lost.

117 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:23:24pm

re: #100 CyanSnowSock

And just what is wrong with socks?
/

Have you ever woke up in the middle of the night with an escaped sock crawling across your foot? Didn't think so..Fear the sock!
/

118 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:23:53pm

re: #62 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I bet you could find a few in that crowd who believe that the penis is evil.

It isn't? I can't say mine has ever given me good advice

119 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:23:57pm

OLT
I agree--not to mention the several other nut cases from other states. Oh well. To tell the truth, I don't care about this debate so should stay off these evo-threads. The truth is the truth--I don't understand why grown people take these odd stands in the face of all evidence, but to me, it's evidence of something else going on in their heads. I don't like calling them names, frankly, because I feel rather sorry for them and have no idea why it is so incredibly important for them to take this stand. Although, as I said, I think its symptomatic of a great fear of losing their faith. It reminds me of a wonderful short story called The Man Who Saw Through Heaven by Wilbur Daniel Steele. If anyone is interested in this story, it is about a newly minted reverend with very narrow, rigid ideas about God and heaven, who is going to Africa as a missionary. To pass the time, before the ship sails, one of the insurance company employees (the narrator of the story) is asked to entertain him, so takes the reverend to an observatory because the narrator's friend is an astronomer. The reverend is completely shocked and questions the astronomer about the great distances--and the astronomer obliges. The rest of the story jumps ahead and is about how the narrator has been asked to track the reverend down somewhere in Africa because the poor reverend seems to have lost his mind and faith right after the observatory experience. It's a fascinating story with a fascinating conclusion--the reverend is dead by the time the narrator catches up with him, but the reverend.... (no, I won't tell!)

120 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:24:03pm

re: #75 nyc redneck

and btw, i have no real training in interpretive dance but i could do it.
and make it relevant.

why don't you get a masters degree in that too?

/big bang! snicker........

121 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:24:21pm

re: #90 Sharmuta

What the religious right doesn't seem to grasp is how life affirming biology and evolution are. It's through my study on evolution that I've come to the conclusion that life begins at conception. It's an amazing process! Instead- they want to shun the very science that would be particularly useful in underscoring one of their other pet issues, which is abortion. They know not what they do.

My faith was re-affirmed in all kinds of classes. From quantum physics to genetics, to bio-molecular chemistry. Not one of my classes did I ever find a conflict between my faith and science, those classes only made the world more wondrous and marvelous.

122 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:24:33pm

re: #67 ArmyWife

I don't get the "Chuck". Is that supposed to be endearing or something? Don't they know its Chas? ;)

Yeah, Chuck. Maybe it's Peppermint Patty writing to you! ;-)

123 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:26:00pm

re: #119 katemaclaren

Sounds like someone went into the Total Perspective Vortex.///

124 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:26:15pm

re: #118 Zimriel

It isn't? I can't say mine has ever given me good advice

It's not the penis that is evil, but all those little annoying parasites known as "sperm".

I've been trying to get rid of mine for years, but I seem to have and endless supply.

125 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:27:16pm

re: #93 OldLineTexan

When every sane leftist has been telling you for ten years it was teh gunz!

/

How many LAWS did those two (may their names be blotted out) commit amassing their arsenal? Let alone the LAWS about murder and assault.

How many gun grabbers would be content to fend off a mugging by reminding the crook mugging is against the LAW. No those gun grabbers want a cop to help them, a cop with a GUN!

126 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:27:19pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

That's not the worst part; The worst part is that he would think he was teaching the kids to be good Christians. That's the part that keeps me awake at night.

Is he a teacher?

127 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:27:27pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Bad, crazy, sick. Claiming that Darwin's scientific work lead to two monsters opening fire in a school is Bark-At-The-Moon-Crazy.

We could blame all the killing on the Grigori.
///

128 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:27:32pm

re: #60 Charles

Email from an admirer, titled "Why Are You Betraying Us, Charles?"

Always with the "Chuck."

When they begin using "Chuckie-Poo", you'll know you're REALLY over the target.

/... :D

129 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:27:40pm

re: #123 calcajun

Sounds like someone went into the Total Perspective Vortex.///

LOL!
Okay. I'll be quiet!

130 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:27:43pm

Sounds like an attempt at an end run on the whole issue of creationism as science, since any fool can issue a paper that says "masters degree" in woo woo if they want; can't they?

What they are asking for then can only be state recognition that creationism is science.

Dover here we go again, hopefully.

131 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:28:22pm

Okay, past #100, can I go off-topic?

The new Star Trek movie premiered in London last night. The Times of London has three different reviews of it, and two of them manage to work in healthy doses of Bush Derangement Syndrome and giddy Obama Worship.

Star Trek at the Empire, Leicester Square

The movie looks gorgeous. Gone is the gloom of the last Star Trek film, Nemesis (2002), which seemed cast in the depressing shadow of George Bush’s post-9/11 America. The prequel, though conceived before the rise of Barack Obama, taps into the optimism of his presidency.


Star Trek Boldy Goes into the Obama Era

It died a death during the Bush years in 2005, but it’s back. I’m talking of course, about the American Dream...There was always a very close relationship between the American Dream — not to mention American imperialism — and Star Trek, with its liberal, secular, multiracial, technophiliac vision of the future. But the two seem almost to have mind-melded with the election of an optimistic, liberal, multiracial President with a Kenyan father and a white American mother (Star Trek featured the first interracial kiss on US television, sparking protests at the time) — and, who is himself something of a 1960s tribute act, with his JFK and Martin Luther King cadences. Suddenly, with Barack Obama at the helm, America looks like a brand that people can believe in again. Or at least root for at the movies.
132 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:29:12pm

re: #121 jcm

My faith was re-affirmed in all kinds of classes. From quantum physics to genetics, to bio-molecular chemistry. Not one of my classes did I ever find a conflict between my faith and science, those classes only made the world more wondrous and marvelous.


I completely agree with you.

133 Summer Seale  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:29:22pm

re: #55 IslandLibertarian

"Zardoz" comes to mind..........

I love that movie. =)

I know most people hate it and think it sucks, but I thought it was really cool and interesting and definitely deserves a place in the 60's/70's psychedelic era of film making. =)

134 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:29:28pm

Does #60 count as a meltdown?

135 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:29:30pm

re: #131 Last Mohican

Bleccch.

/in keeping with the Peanuts theme

136 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:29:45pm

re: #121 jcm

My faith was re-affirmed in all kinds of classes. From quantum physics to genetics, to bio-molecular chemistry. Not one of my classes did I ever find a conflict between my faith and science, those classes only made the world more wondrous and marvelous.

Same here. I think I would have been disappointed if science was simple. I am in awe of a Creator that is so unimaginably intelligent that he could devise the mechanisms of life that surround us. If it was all simple I'd be inclined to think....."heck, I can do that". Thankfully it is not so.

137 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:30:00pm

re: #101 Gella

same here, just because i have a degree in real science

Cool. I do too (as do many on this site). There is religion and there is science, and there are religious scientists. And then there are some that just don't understand the difference. Science (specifically evolution, as in this thread) and religion are not incompatible.

138 bikekiller  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:30:23pm

I have a great admiration for Charles Johnson. I send a LOT of my friends to this site. Also, just people I have conversations with who want to know a GOOD web site to get news of the middle east and around the world.
Here comes the BUT.
But I don't understand why Charles is SO anti-creationist. Believe it or not Charles, a lot of your readers are believers, including me. Why bash us?
just askin'
If I'm banned, so be it.

139 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:30:30pm

re: #131 Last Mohican

Oh, brother.

140 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:31:17pm

re: #138 bikekiller

So long. Enjoy the stalker blogs.

141 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:31:28pm

re: #137 Unakite

Cool. I do too (as do many on this site). There is religion and there is science, and there are religious scientists. And then there are some that just don't understand the difference. Science (specifically evolution, as in this thread) and religion are not incompatible.

my point exactly
i don't see pure religion as a science, its same for me as science of humanities in college

142 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:31:56pm

I'm out of here. Later lizards.

143 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:32:03pm

Meltdown winner @138...

144 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:32:09pm

bikekiller

Karma: 7
Registered since: Nov 15, 2007 at 6:19 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 20
No. of links posted: 0

145 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:33:01pm

re: #114 Slumbering Behemoth

Most fall on the side of the right to bear arms, but not bare arms.

146 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:33:15pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

I'll go with 132 for first meltdown.

Close, but no potatos.

147 jdog29  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:33:19pm

re: #138 bikekiller

I have a great admiration for Charles Johnson. I send a LOT of my friends to this site. Also, just people I have conversations with who want to know a GOOD web site to get news of the middle east and around the world.
Here comes the BUT.
But I don't understand why Charles is SO anti-creationist. Believe it or not Charles, a lot of your readers are believers, including me. Why bash us?
just askin'
If I'm banned, so be it.

Just admit it. The only thing separating us from the T-Rex are incremental environmental pressures our common ancestor had to adapt to or face extinction.//

148 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:33:45pm

re: #143 transient

Meltdown winner @138...

That was sort of a gentle, catch-more-flies-with-honey kind of a meltdown, huh?

149 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:33:54pm

re: #146 Irish Rose

Close, but no potatos.

No potatoes?

That's it, we're going to America.

/

150 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:34:03pm

re: #138 bikekiller

I have a great admiration for Charles Johnson. I send a LOT of my friends to this site. Also, just people I have conversations with who want to know a GOOD web site to get news of the middle east and around the world.
Here comes the BUT.
But I don't understand why Charles is SO anti-creationist. Believe it or not Charles, a lot of your readers are believers, including me. Why bash us?
just askin'
If I'm banned, so be it.

Please, don't get banned, just synch your brains with your faith, and learn which is which.

151 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:34:12pm

re: #138 bikekiller

I have a great admiration for Charles Johnson. I send a LOT of my friends to this site. Also, just people I have conversations with who want to know a GOOD web site to get news of the middle east and around the world.
Here comes the BUT.
But I don't understand why Charles is SO anti-creationist. Believe it or not Charles, a lot of your readers are believers, including me. Why bash us?
just askin'
If I'm banned, so be it.

Being against the forced indoctrination of other peoples' kids in sectarian religious dogmas in public high school science class is not anti-Christian.

152 Gella  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:34:18pm

re: #143 transient

Meltdown winner @138...

i was sooo wrong with it, darn it :)

153 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:34:19pm

re: #131 Last Mohican

WTF.
Barack H Obama, USS Enterprise?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...ha ha ha!
I don't think so.
He's such a newbie-dork--he would be the smart-alecky lieutenant or the federation bureaucrat who argues with Kirk and Spock, does something stupid--risks the crew, has to be rescued and then sees the light while EATING HUMBLE PIE.
Cue the group hug.

154 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:34:50pm

re: #128 pre-Boomer Marine brat

When they begin using "Chuckie-Poo", you'll know you're REALLY over the target.

/... :D

LOL
Hoopster-poo goes over the line..
Saturday morning we had a poster just totally meltdown..Charles had to delete like a zillion posts but the funny one was where they said I had diapers on around my ankles and just totally insulting me..It was classic..

155 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:34:51pm

OK, I called #132 for the meltdown (which happened at #138), so I guess I win.

156 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:35:29pm

re: #118 Zimriel

It isn't? I can't say mine has ever given me good advice

You know why some men have names for their male-members?
'Cause they need to be on a first name basis with whoever makes all their decisions for them.

157 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:35:46pm

re: #148 Last Mohican

That was sort of a gentle, catch-more-flies-with-honey kind of a meltdown, huh?

"Why do you hate us Christians."
"Let me tell you what to post on your blog, Charles."
Very formulaic. I give it a 4.3.

158 OldLineTexan  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:36:09pm

re: #154 HoosierHoops

Hey, Hoopie-Doopie:

WTF is wrong wit youse anyways? What with the diapers and all? I'm just sayin'.

//

159 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:36:39pm

re: #138 bikekiller

Believe it or not Charles, a lot of your readers are believers, including me. Why bash us?

A lot of Charles' readers are believers who understand that Charles isn't bashing them. And we won't bash you either, if you don't try to deprive our children of their right to learn science in school.

160 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:36:57pm

Looks like someone filled out The Form Letter!

161 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:37:03pm

re: #153 katemaclaren

WTF.
Barack H Obama, USS Enterprise?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. ..ha ha ha!
I don't think so.
He's such a newbie-dork--he would be the smart-alecky lieutenant or the federation bureaucrat who argues with Kirk and Spock, does something stupid--risks the crew, has to be rescued and then sees the light while EATING HUMBLE PIE.
Cue the group hug.

No, Kirk would do to Obama the thing that proper captains always do to idiot underlings: Send him packing with an evaluation so bad it would take devine intervention for him to get promoted ever again.

162 Truck Monkey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:37:10pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

OK, I called #132 for the meltdown (which happened at #138), so I guess I win.

Actually you WIN BOTH SHOWCASES! Kind of a lame meltdown though. More like slouching the way out the door actually.

163 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:37:14pm

re: #121 jcm

My I hazard a guess here. The cornerstone of Christian faith hinges on one supernatural occurrence-the Resurrection. Now, if you recall from the Gospels, the flock sees Jesus perform miracle after miracle (loaves and fishes, healing, Lazarus, etc.) only to be met with calls of "Encore! More!" Some of the disciples do this, too. (BTW, the OT has some supernatural stuff as well; Ezekiel tooling around in a burning chariot, etc.) Jesus just rolls his eyes at them.

A motivation for people like these, especially the young-Earthers, is that they are like the followers who wanted to see God do more magic tricks. They cannot see beyond the one event which defines our faith and want to see more, that in many respects, dilutes that same faith. For if God is a god of reason and order, then why the hell does he keep breaking his own rules? Why give us the ability to date materials only to be told that God did a faux antique job on the Earth just to show that he could. It begins to sound more like a Muslim god--in shah Allah-as God wills it.

These are people, IMO, who want further proof of God's existence. And I have no idea how to argue with that.

164 jdog29  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:37:42pm

Dang, they just ain't making meltdowns like they youstah.

165 Summer Seale  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:37:56pm

re: #159 Last Mohican

A lot of Charles' readers are believers who understand that Charles isn't bashing them. And we won't bash you either, if you don't try to deprive our children of their right to learn science in school.

That's not true.....
...
...I might bash him. =)

166 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:38:21pm

re: #160 Zimriel

Looks like someone filled out The Form Letter!


ROFLMAO
That is excellent!

167 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:38:23pm

re: #151 Salamantis

Being against the forced indoctrination of other peoples' kids in sectarian religious dogmas in public high school science class is not anti-Christian.

Exactly.
It's one thing to be a believer, and raise your own children to be believers... it's another thing entirely to force your religious beliefs onto the innocent children of other people, behind their backs and without their consent.

168 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:38:39pm

Important lizard survival tips:
1) Do not use the word banned in any of it's forms or conjugations in a posting.
2) Do not taunt Charles.
3) Do not cross the streams......
/ :)

169 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:38:49pm

[Link: www.heinleinsociety.org...]

Nehemiah Scudder

Religious demagogue whose followers overthrew the United States government and instituted a theocracy. This dictatorship controlled the country for several generations until it was itself overthrown by resistance movements. His followers included Venus colonials, but the movement apparently was dominant only in the United States. He is also called the Prophet.

170 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:38:52pm

re: #150 Naso Tang

Please, don't get banned, just synch your brains with your faith, and learn which is which.

Good advice. Hope it is is taken in the spirit in which it is offered.

171 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:39:19pm

re: #158 OldLineTexan

Hey, Hoopie-Doopie:

WTF is wrong wit youse anyways? What with the diapers and all? I'm just sayin'.

//

Why I ought ta!
/Good evening Texan..

172 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:39:19pm

re: #138 bikekiller

Is Charles "anti-creationist", in toto, or merely against creationism being taught in public school SCIENCE classes?

173 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:39:57pm

I obviously lied earlier about taking off. Now I really am. See you all later.....
:)

174 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:40:04pm

re: #157 transient

"Why do you hate us Christians."
"Let me tell you what to post on your blog, Charles."
Very formulaic. I give it a 4.3.

But it worked in that part about referring a lot of other people to the site. And the tacit implication that, "if you don't stop alienating us sweet, gentle Christians just because of our peaceful belief in the Good Book, then we're going to take our clicks elsewhere, you Satanistic heathen, and smash your unholy blog to bits!"

175 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:40:58pm

re: #160 Zimriel

Looks like someone filled out The Form Letter!

ROTFLMAO! It took me 2 minutes just to stop laughing long enough to type this. Upding and original post favorited.

176 Summer Seale  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:42:22pm

re: #172 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Is Charles "anti-creationist", in toto, or merely against creationism being taught in public school SCIENCE classes?

You'd have to ask Charles that.

I'm "anti-Creationist" in the same way that I'm "anti-Oddysseyean" - meaning, it's great when it's taught in a certain way, but I think it's silly to believe in it as actual fact and history.

177 jdog29  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:42:39pm

re: #147 jdog29

Just admit it. The only thing separating us from the T-Rex are incremental environmental pressures our common ancestor had to adapt to or face extinction.//

Just admit it. The only thing separating us from the Great White Sharks are incremental environmental pressures over billions of years our common ancestor had to adapt to or face certain extinction//

178 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:42:40pm

re: #160 Zimriel

Looks like someone filled out The Form Letter!

Very good, but one or two were left out:

[] Aren't there more important things to focus on?
[] Is this something we need to be divided on?

179 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:42:44pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

ROTFLMAO! It took me 2 minutes just to stop laughing long enough to type this. Upding and original post favorited.

I know, that was such blatant karma-whoring that I almost should have asked for DOWN dings on that comment... hehe

180 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:43:04pm

OT:

Blood in the Face, a chilling 1991 documentary about the racist neonazi extremist movement in America, in their own words:

181 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:43:21pm

What an afternoon. neonazi shit heads. Now we have folks pissed that their version of creation can't be taught as science! Mwahaha. I just caught this today, Durban Israel bashing fest is happening on a certain maniacs birthday.

182 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:43:45pm

re: #134 Irish Rose

Does #60 count as a meltdown?

I'm going to say no, because there was no flouncing.

183 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:43:47pm

re: #127 Idle Drifter

We could blame all the killing on the Grigori.
///

The Grigori were the angelic watchers who bestowed on men knowledge that some of which was to be discovered gradually such as weapons, writing and even cosmetics and other knowledge that was forbidden such as sorcery. They were also resposible for the Giants by taking mortal women as wives. Generally made of mess of things in the books of Genesis and Enoch.

This use of Darwin as the cause for the Columbine Shootings is just horrible using graves as a soapbox.

184 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:44:10pm

re: #170 Unakite

Good advice. Hope it is is taken in the spirit in which it is offered.

Too late, 'bikekiller' got the bounce. And a individual with the screen name 'katemclaren' just updinged the post that got him tossed. Come on down, Kate! You're the next contestant on "Whack A Troll!"

185 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:44:45pm

re: #138 bikekiller

Now that's a meltdown with a good, sashaying flounce!

186 BignJames  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:44:59pm

re: #168 LGoPs

Important lizard survival tips:
1) Do not use the word banned in any of it's forms or conjugations in a posting.
2) Do not taunt Charles.
3) Do not cross the streams......
/ :)


band...band...band

187 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:45:33pm

re: #176 Summer

That was a rhetorical-question response to bikekiller's #138, where he said:

I don't understand why Charles is SO anti-creationist

I know where Charles stands.

188 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:45:49pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

Obama is so not "Prime Directive".

189 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:46:02pm

re: #174 Last Mohican

But it worked in that part about referring a lot of other people to the site. And the tacit implication that, "if you don't stop alienating us sweet, gentle Christians just because of our peaceful belief in the Good Book, then we're going to take our clicks elsewhere, you Satanistic heathen, and smash your unholy blog to bits!"


There is some creativity, I grant you. Good flow. And of course points for recognizing Charles' service in publicizing Middle East issues.

190 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:46:12pm

re: #138 bikekiller

I think you are brave and Charles most likely respects that, too. What I think, just sayin', is that for many there is a great fear of what's happening to education in this country--and science education in particular. I feel the same way. My first degree is in Biology and Chemistry, and now teach English, so see the problem a little differently. First, by the time kids are in high school, they're not going to believe any of the creationist hard core stuff because they've got a world of information out there. Because of my own experience as a college teacher, I see the problem as not teaching children science when they can actually learn it as fluently as a second language--between ages 5 and 12. The educational system is nothing but chaos--there is no systematic curricula, no learning outcomes that force students to stretch and think. We've been dumbing down (everybody can be a winner and anyone can be president) so long that a genuine reform movement is needed to exam the notion of devising a national curriculum that is demanding and that also allows for those less able to leave the system with dignity and training in a skill that is useful in getting a job. No one in the educational field is willing to admit that the field isn't level at all--and the more we try, the worse the outcome if we want smart, motivated critical thinkers.

191 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:47:08pm

re: #159 Last Mohican

Good point.

192 Summer Seale  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:47:54pm

re: #187 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That was a rhetorical-question response to bikekiller's #138, where he said:

I know where Charles stands.

Yea I kinda figured. I didn't see your name until after I hit post. =)

193 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:48:03pm

Looks like the haters finally found me, 'scuse me while I go check my stats.

I document everything.

194 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:48:52pm

re: #178 Naso Tang

Very good, but one or two were left out:

[] Aren't there more important things to focus on?
[] Is this something we need to be divided on?

There were a few other tropes: "I don't understand your hate for Christians" is a very popular one, which I've been kicking myself for not putting in there somehow.

195 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:49:28pm

re: #138 bikekiller

It is not a bashing of our faith--let's be clear on that. It is that you and other Creationists do not see the danger you are causing. The First Amendment clearly provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". These two clauses make up what are commonly known as the "religion clauses" of the First Amendment.

What the Creationists are doing is allowing theology to be taught in the guise of science. There is no other way to describe it. It is allowing a religious doctrine to be promulgated in the public schools --in direct contravention of the First Amendment.

"What's so bad about that?" you ask. Well, you be Sherman and I'll be Mr. Peabody and we'll hop in the "Way-back Machine." (boy, did I just date myself?) Only we jump ahead 30-40 years when the demographics of the country have changed--and there are areas with a Muslim majority. Not the whole country, but say the state of Michigan. We might minarets in front of the Wayne County Courthouse. There's no longer a Christmas Holiday or Easter Break in schools--as the Muslim majority voted for the changes. And they will have the Christians from this generation to thank for setting the precedent for them.

That's why Creationism/ID is so bloody dangerous. It really is a case of being careful for what you wish for.

196 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:49:42pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

ROTFLMAO! It took me 2 minutes just to stop laughing long enough to type this. Upding and original post favorited.

Wasn't that great? Don't you think Charles should have all the meltdown forms available as templates under Tools?
You could pick just the right exit post from an easy to use drop down lists...
Take your pick..
if you want to eliminate an entire race of humanity..We've got that form .
Special Religious meltdowns are also available..Charles you are going to burn in hell is a popular template.
as full service blog, Charles offers a wide variety of meltdown forms to make your stay a pleasant and enjoyable one here.

197 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:49:48pm

re: #180 Salamantis

OT:

Blood in the Face, a chilling 1991 documentary about the racist neonazi extremist movement in America, in their own words:


[Video]

Good find, Sal. Also, did I say something wrong with my #184?

198 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:50:58pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

Too late, 'bikekiller' got the bounce. And a individual with the screen name 'katemclaren' just updinged the post that got him tossed. Come on down, Kate! You're the next contestant on "Whack A Troll!"

Well, that was mean. I think it takes some courage to say what he did--and frankly, I'm sorry that he was banned, if that happened. What are those up and down dings for if not to register some kind of sympathy? I may not agree with him, but he wasn't rude or crazy.

199 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:51:39pm

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

Good find, Sal. Also, did I say something wrong with my #184?

Nope, just a misding, now corrected; thanx for bringing it to my attention!

200 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:51:40pm

re: #163 calcajun

Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

I have thought about how small one's faith would be to have it challenged by Darwin, or anyone else.

I would quibble on a minor point. For me, the cornerstone isn't the stories in the Bible, but that the Bible is a gateway to lead one into the spiritual realm. In that spiritual realm one will find God.

I have noted, on many occasions those most enamored with YEC or creationism overall seem to have missed that point, one that is a repeated message in the Bible itself. That is a spiritual guide, to focus on the text itself is to miss the point.

201 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:52:32pm

re: #181 pingjockey

What an afternoon. neonazi shit heads. Now we have folks pissed that their version of creation can't be taught as science! Mwahaha. I just caught this today, Durban Israel bashing fest is happening on a certain maniacs birthday.

The good news in Durban is a lot of countries walked out of Iamawhackjob's speech.

202 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:53:05pm

I've been called out, dear friends, and now I must confess:

I am Sharmuta.

203 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:53:47pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

Too late, 'bikekiller' got the bounce. And a individual with the screen name 'katemclaren' just updinged the post that got him tossed. Come on down, Kate! You're the next contestant on "Whack A Troll!"

Ooh, Just saw KM at 190.... :)

Couldn't handle the science degrees so went to English. I think you got it (I'm not an english major).

204 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:53:55pm

re: #202 Irish Rose

Now that you mention it--I never saw the two of you together in one thread before. Spooky.//

205 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:54:15pm

re: #202 Irish Rose

I've been called out, dear friends, and now I must confess:

I am Sharmuta.

There goes the threesome!

/

206 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:54:36pm

re: #202 Irish Rose

I've been called out, dear friends, and now I must confess:

I am Sharmuta.

Her hair is Blue..Silly

207 JacksonTn  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:54:50pm

albusteve around tonight? ... if so email me on my avatar ...

208 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:54:55pm

re: #186 BignJames

band...band...band

Banned on the run... banned on the run...

209 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:54:56pm

Did I just miss some prime rump?

210 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:55:03pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

Yep. I can hardly wait to see the movie.

211 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:55:19pm

re: #198 katemaclaren

Well, that was mean. I think it takes some courage to say what he did--and frankly, I'm sorry that he was banned, if that happened. What are those up and down dings for if not to register some kind of sympathy? I may not agree with him, but he wasn't rude or crazy.

Charles has warned people not to post stuff like his post. It wasn't crazy, I agree, but it was not wise to post. That said, I am updinging you for posting and defending your position in a honest manner.

212 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:55:20pm

re: #201 jcm
There were a couple of dudes with clown hair disprupting short shits speech.

213 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:56:09pm

re: #190 katemaclaren

I think you are brave and Charles most likely respects that, too.

There's no especial courage involved in regurgitating talking points which get scrawled out every doggone day around here, and in LGF-bashing threads across the Internet.

What I think, just sayin', is that for many there is a great fear of what's happening to education in this country--and science education in particular. I feel the same way. My first degree is in Biology and Chemistry, and now teach English, so see the problem a little differently. First, by the time kids are in high school, they're not going to believe any of the creationist hard core stuff because they've got a world of information out there. Because of my own experience as a college teacher, I see the problem as not teaching children science when they can actually learn it as fluently as a second language--between ages 5 and 12. The educational system is nothing but chaos--there is no systematic curricula, no learning outcomes that force students to stretch and think. We've been dumbing down (everybody can be a winner and anyone can be president) so long

All this stuff you mention won't be solved by giving master's degrees to Christian madrassa graduates. They will on the contrary make the curricula MORE dumbed down and MORE chaotic.

that a genuine reform movement is needed to exam the notion of devising a national curriculum that is demanding and that also allows for those less able to leave the system with dignity and training in a skill that is useful in getting a job. No one in the educational field is willing to admit that the field isn't level at all--and the more we try, the worse the outcome if we want smart, motivated critical thinkers.

I'm confused. Are we to have multitier educations which leave some fit for vocational work, and others fit for critical thinkers? Or are we to create a system where everyone is to be a critical thinker?

I'm fine with multitier education, by the way. But I think some form of science education is necessary, shorn of sectarian bias.

And again, giving the nod to people like the author of post#138 to devise our educational policy won't help ANY educational system worth its name.

214 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:56:34pm

re: #196 HoosierHoops

Wasn't that great? Don't you think Charles should have all the meltdown forms available as templates under Tools?
You could pick just the right exit post from an easy to use drop down lists...
Take your pick..
if you want to eliminate an entire race of humanity..We've got that form .
Special Religious meltdowns are also available..Charles you are going to burn in hell is a popular template.
as full service blog, Charles offers a wide variety of meltdown forms to make your stay a pleasant and enjoyable one here.

That's too funny!
Well, I'd like to tough this out, but I have a stack of papers to grade--it's the end of the semester looming. Night everyone. Play nice.

215 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:57:21pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

(blushing)
Gee thanks!
(I agree about the dumb move writing anything like that, though!)

216 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:59:04pm

re: #207 JacksonTn

albusteve around tonight? ... if so email me on my avatar ...

Was that you that made the very nice comment over at Dr. C's site?
Thank you for that..He is a world class scientist that gets like 5 hits a month on his blog..Thanks for the support!

217 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:59:09pm

re: #208 Dar ul Harb

Banned on the run... banned on the run...

...this one time, at banned camp...//

This has been done before, I know.

218 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:59:31pm

re: #215 katemaclaren

(blushing)
Gee thanks!
(I agree about the dumb move writing anything like that, though!)

Yep; you don't enter a lions' den flaunting a pork chop necklace.

219 JacksonTn  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:00:02pm

re: #216 HoosierHoops

Was that you that made the very nice comment over at Dr. C's site?
Thank you for that..He is a world class scientist that gets like 5 hits a month on his blog..Thanks for the support!

HH ... yeah ... I read his site sometimes ... and he is your friend ....

220 jdog29  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:01:18pm

re: #138 bikekiller

I have a great admiration for Charles Johnson. I send a LOT of my friends to this site. Also, just people I have conversations with who want to know a GOOD web site to get news of the middle east and around the world.
Here comes the BUT.
But I don't understand why Charles is SO anti-creationist. Believe it or not Charles, a lot of your readers are believers, including me. Why bash us?
just askin'
If I'm banned, so be it.

Aight, here's the deal. Charles is not against creation, creationist, or creationism AS LONG AS IT IS TREATED AS THEOLOGY NOT BIOLOGY.

If God created the world in 6 days, He sure made it LOOK LIKE IT TOOK A LOT LONGER. This motive seems very disingenuous of a loving, all knowing God to a whole lot of people, 80% of whom post regularly on this site.////

Only when theology crosses the line into science does it catch heat from Charles or any of his minions, of whom I am the least. Teaching creation in a science class crosses that line.

It would be like teaching the story of Jesus walking on water in Physics class or Jesus calming the storm in meteorologist class. If you or I want to believe those things no one on this site will bash you for it, it is just kindly asked not to be introducing Jesus feeding the 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish as a preparation strategy for helping the Hurricane Katrina victims.

221 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:02:02pm

re: #202 Irish Rose

I've been called out, dear friends, and now I must confess:

I am Sharmuta.

No, I'm Sharmuta!

222 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:02:50pm

And when you try to walk your pet skunk into a perfume factory, or your pet porcupine into a balloonery, don't be surprised when they show you the door.

223 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:03:20pm

re: #221 Zimriel

No, I'm Sharmuta...and so's my wife!

224 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:04:21pm

re: #223 calcajun

No, I'm Sharmuta...and so's my wife!

Is Sharmuta an alias of Spartacus now?

225 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:05:03pm

re: #223 calcajun

No, I'm Sharmuta...and so's my wife!

/Just in case the FBI calls.. I am not Sharmuta!
that bitch set me up!
LOL

226 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:05:11pm

re: #222 Salamantis

And when you try to walk your pet skunk into a perfume factory, or your pet porcupine into a balloonery, don't be surprised when they show you the door.

What happens when you walk your pet lizard into a liberal blog? :D

227 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:05:20pm

re: #224 Salamantis
Spartacus was Sharmuta!

228 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:06:19pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon
Be sure and carry a very large clue bat, and make sure your lizard has had all its shots, it could catch something from biting moonbats.

229 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:06:56pm

I am SpaceJesus!

230 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:07:03pm

re: #213 Zimriel

Well, I couldn't resist replying. I didn't think, nor don't think, the person in #138 should be teaching science. I don't think there should be multi-layered approaches to teaching hardcore subjects like science and math. Having said that, we already have Christian schools and madrassas and other religious schools in this country--what kind of students are they turning out? I don't know. The Amish only educate their kids to the 8th grade. Should we ban these schools? I don't know.
Up until now, in this country at least, this has not been seen as much of a problem for the country. If you do, well, what can I say? Many very fine schools in this country were founded and run by Roman Catholics--I have no idea whether they are teaching creationism, but I rather doubt it.
So, if you are thinking I'm headed for a meltdown on this issue, you're wrong. I care about education, yes, and maybe I should be more concerned about these issues in Texas--but I'm just not. I have passionate interests in other topics and that is why I don't usually post on these threads. Too much fire and brimstone for me who was made for cooler and calmer climes.

231 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:07:16pm

re: #224 Salamantis

That was from "Life of Brian" actually (which is a pretty funny movie for a Good Friday)

232 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:07:19pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

I am SpaceJesus!

Oh, wait.

233 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:07:28pm

Charles is also Sharmuta.

234 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:07:39pm

re: #218 Salamantis

Yep; you don't enter a lions' den flaunting a pork chop necklace.

You always make me laugh! I must remember that one the next time some student tries it on!

235 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:07:49pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

I am SpaceJesus!

Nnnnnooooooooo!

236 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:08:00pm

re: #229 Sharmuta
Ahahahaha! Damn it! There is kool aid up my nose!

237 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:08:00pm

re: #233 Irish Rose

NO?!

238 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:08:39pm

re: #230 katemaclaren

But, we're talking about public eduction--a government institution--not the private centers to which you are referring.

239 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:08:41pm

One scrawny troll. One.

Pitiful. Pitiful!

Why, newbie, we old-timers remember when we could bag as dozen plump juicy trolls in a single thread!

Now excuse me while I pull a Lou Dobbs cranky and yell at those neighbor kids to get off my lawn!

240 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:09:08pm

re: #231 calcajun

Always look on the bright side of life...da da ...

241 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:09:29pm

re: #231 calcajun

That was from "Life of Brian" actually (which is a pretty funny movie for a Good Friday)


It was from Spartacus before it was from Life of Brian.

242 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:09:40pm

re: #239 Salamantis

UPDATE: Clint Eastwood.

243 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:10:15pm

re: #241 transient

It was from Spartacus before it was from Life of Brian.

And, oddly enough, they both ended the same way.

244 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:10:39pm

re: #242 katemaclaren

huh?

245 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:10:46pm

re: #238 calcajun

Oh I give up. No fight in me--you are having a battle of wits with an uninterested party, here. I'm too tired. Good night all. Really. I promise.

246 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:11:31pm

re: #235 HoosierHoops

SpaceJesus got called "sharmuta in drag" at Ace's. I think that's hilarious.

247 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:11:32pm

re: #244 calcajun

The new Eastwood movie--get the neighbors (chinks) off the lawn. You need to go see it--or rent it,now.

248 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:11:50pm

re: #245 katemaclaren

No--I thought there was news on ol'Clint. Is there?

249 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:11:54pm

re: #245 katemaclaren

Oh I give up. No fight in me--you are having a battle of wits with an uninterested party, here. I'm too tired. Good night all. Really. I promise.

weet dreams.

250 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:12:30pm

re: #246 Sharmuta
What?! That is hilarious!

251 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:12:38pm

re: #247 katemaclaren

Argh. me understand.

252 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:12:40pm

re: #218 Salamantis

Yep; you don't enter a lions' den flaunting a pork chop necklace.

You don't pull on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger and
You don't mess around with...er...Charles.

253 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:12:47pm

re: #247 katemaclaren

The new Eastwood movie--get the neighbors (chinks) off the lawn. You need to go see it--or rent it,now.

Gran Torino.

254 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:13:22pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

Sharmuta, with my dying breath, I'm telling you, begging you, to get help if you think you are SpaceJesus. Quickly, quickly.

{}

255 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:13:30pm

re: #233 Irish Rose

Did someone tamper with their tinfoil hats?

256 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:13:34pm

re: #246 Sharmuta

SpaceJesus got called "sharmuta in drag" at Ace's. I think that's hilarious.

Really? that is funny Sharm! Hope today finds you well and happy

257 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:13:44pm

re: #213 Zimriel

All this stuff you mention won't be solved by giving master's degrees to Christian madrassa graduates. They will on the contrary make the curricula MORE dumbed down and MORE chaotic.

that a genuine reform movement is needed to exam the notion of devising a national curriculum that is demanding and that also allows for those less able to leave the system with dignity and training in a skill that is useful in getting a job. No one in the educational field is willing to admit that the field isn't level at all--and the more we try, the worse the outcome if we want smart, motivated critical thinkers.

I'm confused. Are we to have multitier educations which leave some fit for vocational work, and others fit for critical thinkers? Or are we to create a system where everyone is to be a critical thinker?

I'm fine with multitier education, by the way. But I think some form of science education is necessary, shorn of sectarian bias.

And again, giving the nod to people like the author of post#138 to devise our educational policy won't help ANY educational system worth its name.

Slightly OT, but it just struck me that she said she teaches English, not that she has a degree in English. And I just wanted to comment on how well written your post was as compared to hers.

258 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:13:55pm

re: #249 HoosierHoops

;-)

259 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:14:00pm

re: #243 calcajun

And, oddly enough, they both ended the same way.

Wow...the producers of Spartacus must have been prescient to have spoofed Life of Brian like that!

260 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:15:16pm

re: #257 Unakite

Slightly OT, but it just struck me that she said she teaches English, not that she has a degree in English. And I just wanted to comment on how well written your post was as compared to hers.

Wow. Just wow.

261 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:15:29pm

re: #255 SharmutaHaven't you heard? Tin foil hats are passe'. Colanders are the new in thing to keep out spy rays.

262 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:15:42pm

re: #243 calcajun

And, oddly enough, they both ended the same way.

Terrific race, the Romans... terrific.

It's interesting that all this is coming up because - there is in fact a new book on "The Spartacus War" by Barry Strauss.

Apparently Sallust ("Jugurthine War", "Catiline Conspiracy") wrote a monograph on Spartacus. This is where I start tearing my hair out at the sheer extent of books written in the ancient world which we DON'T have.

263 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:16:23pm

re: #253 Salamantis

I couldn't remember. Thanks!

264 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:16:57pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

I am SpaceJesus!

No you're not!

265 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:17:12pm

re: #261 pingjockey

Haven't you heard? Tin foil hats are passe'. Colanders are the new in thing to keep out spy rays.

Some of them couldn't keep out teh crayzee if they wore Vega engine blocks.

266 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:17:17pm

re: #261 pingjockey

Hello Ping! Goodnight Ping. Let's have some more pun one day soon!

267 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:17:30pm

We are all spacejesus now.

268 Irish Rose  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:17:32pm

re: #255 Sharmuta

They found my you-know-what.

269 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:17:56pm

re: #266 katemaclaren
Oh noez!

270 transient  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:18:10pm

re: #268 Irish Rose

They found my you-know-what.


Hey! This is a family blog!

271 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:18:16pm

re: #267 Jimmah
Speak for yourself!

272 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:18:18pm

re: #267 Jimmah

lol spartacists.

273 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:18:49pm

re: #268 Irish Rose

They found my you-know-what.

Is it good for you?

/

274 jdog29  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:19:01pm

Is it Shar Mew tah or Shar Mutt tah?

You say Potato, I say....

275 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:19:05pm

re: #231 calcajun

That was from "Life of Brian" actually (which is a pretty funny movie for a Good Friday)

Pretty funny movie for any day. :)

276 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:19:14pm

re: #265 Salamantis

Hey Sal, some prime rump going spare here if you're interested - so far I've been having it all to myself.

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

277 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:19:32pm

re: #257 Unakite

Slightly OT, but it just struck me that she said she teaches English, not that she has a degree in English. And I just wanted to comment on how well written your post was as compared to hers.

Thanks, but my degree was in Math! (And in Ancient Mediterranean Civilizations, which does crop up in posts I make here, from time to time...) In English, I got through GCSE with an A and a B in Language and Literature - or was that the other way 'round. . . At any rate it inspired me not to major in it.

It's also a good thing that proper HTML tagging wasn't in the exam, or I'd never have stood a chance.

278 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:20:11pm

re: #267 Jimmah

We are all spacejesus now.

I beg you..Never post that again..

279 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:20:16pm

re: #265 Salamantis
Heh! I still get a kick out of some of our melt down folks have been registered for 4 years and have 20 posts!

280 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:21:07pm

re: #239 Salamantis

One scrawny troll. One.

Pitiful. Pitiful!

Why, newbie, we old-timers remember when we could bag as dozen plump juicy trolls in a single thread!

Now excuse me while I pull a Lou Dobbs cranky and yell at those neighbor kids to get off my lawn!

Hey, I'm kinda sorta starting to like Lou Dobbs.

281 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:21:11pm

re: #276 Jimmah

Hey Sal, some prime rump going spare here if you're interested - so far I've been having it all to myself.

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

Naah, have at 'em...this pit bull feels like staying in his favorite yard tonight...;~)

282 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:22:41pm

re: #278 HoosierHoops

It was a joke I assure you...lol

283 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:24:25pm

re: #255 Sharmuta

Nope--mine fits fine.

284 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:25:31pm

re: #267 Jimmah

We are all spacejesus now.

All your spacejesus belong to us!

285 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:25:36pm

re: #281 Salamantis

Naah, have at 'em...this pit bull feels like staying in his favorite yard tonight...;~)

Don't blame ya. :)

286 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:25:49pm

re: #267 Jimmah

We are all spacejesus now.

I feel like the wicked witch of the East stuck in a leaky lifeboat in the pacific ocean..This isn't going to end well..
/

287 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:26:12pm

re: #284 calcajun

That was going to be my next post...lol

288 Whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:29:06pm

At risk of being banned, I remember when I was a child the controversy of evolution being taught in school. The fear was that the scientific theory would be taught as fact, instead of what it is... a theory. Like the "theory" of man-made global warming, that is exactly what has happened.

For those who claim to only want the sciences taught, I have to wonder... what if science proved creationism. Would you then want it taught in schools in every science program?

289 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:31:29pm

re: #288 Whippet

If yours is a genuine question, please see mine at #195. Thanks and do it before the big stick comes out.

290 pingjockey  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:32:20pm

re: #288 Whippet

Some how I don't think science can prove God exists.

291 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:36:09pm

re: #230 katemaclaren

Well, I couldn't resist replying. I didn't think, nor don't think, the person in #138 should be teaching science. I don't think there should be multi-layered approaches to teaching hardcore subjects like science and math. Having said that, we already have Christian schools and madrassas and other religious schools in this country--what kind of students are they turning out? I don't know. The Amish only educate their kids to the 8th grade. Should we ban these schools? I don't know.
Up until now, in this country at least, this has not been seen as much of a problem for the country. If you do, well, what can I say? Many very fine schools in this country were founded and run by Roman Catholics--I have no idea whether they are teaching creationism, but I rather doubt it.
So, if you are thinking I'm headed for a meltdown on this issue, you're wrong. I care about education, yes, and maybe I should be more concerned about these issues in Texas--but I'm just not. I have passionate interests in other topics and that is why I don't usually post on these threads. Too much fire and brimstone for me who was made for cooler and calmer climes.

I updinged you because you made a nice response. However, it sounds like you have a lot of information but don't know how to process it. Your Amish comment is, "I don't know." How about ridiculous. You may disagree with the way that the Amish educate their kids, but suggesting that the schools be banned is nuts. You ask ridiculous, non sequitur questions, then answer, "I don't know."

I don't believe that you are headed for a meltdown, but I do believe that you are intellectually lazy. Based on your comment that there is "too much fire and brimstone for me who was made for cooler and calmer climes," it seems that you don't want to have an opinion or, worse, have to defend it.

292 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:38:16pm

re: #288 Whippet

There isn't a shred of empirical evidence to support creationism. None.

293 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:38:31pm

re: #288 Whippet

At risk of being banned, I remember when I was a child the controversy of evolution being taught in school. The fear was that the scientific theory would be taught as fact, instead of what it is... a theory. Like the "theory" of man-made global warming, that is exactly what has happened.

For those who claim to only want the sciences taught, I have to wonder... what if science proved creationism. Would you then want it taught in schools in every science program?


In all my life...I have never felt there was a fear of Science theory being taught as fact..Our mission in School was to prove or disprove theories as fact...If the theory was false then it was frigging false..nothing more nothing less...

294 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:39:22pm

re: #280 Unakite

Hey, I'm kinda sorta starting to like Lou Dobbs.

I'm not liking Lou Dobbs more; I'm just liking the rest of the talking pseudonewsheads >i>less.

295 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:40:36pm

re: #288 Whippet

For those who claim to only want the sciences taught, I have to wonder... what if science proved creationism. Would you then want it taught in schools in every science program?

I'd want it taught in the appropriate science classes if it were found to be true, yes. Same as if science were to prove that the earth was flat, or that storks are responsible for human birthing. But that is not going to happen, is it?

296 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:41:06pm

#289 calcajun

I agree with what you are saying, but unfortunately many people feared that the teaching of evolution was included in the curriculum specifically to deny creationism. This was done where I was from, I believe in the 60's with the onslaught of liberal thought and attitudes being brought into many school programs so it was hardly a stretch for many Christians to fear this new teaching. When the theory became taught as fact that fear was realized.

I have no problem with religious teaching being left out of a school's curriculum, however I have deep concerns about those who do not teach a theory for what it is...a theory.

297 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:41:23pm

re: #277 Zimriel

Thanks, but my degree was in Math! (And in Ancient Mediterranean Civilizations, which does crop up in posts I make here, from time to time...) In English, I got through GCSE with an A and a B in Language and Literature - or was that the other way 'round. . . At any rate it inspired me not to major in it.

It's also a good thing that proper HTML tagging wasn't in the exam, or I'd never have stood a chance.

I got downdinged for commenting on how well written your post was. :)

298 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:42:14pm

re: #296 whippet

I have no problem with religious teaching being left out of a school's curriculum, however I have deep concerns about those who do not teach a theory for what it is...a theory.

Do you even know what "theory" means in science, because it sure doesn't look like it.

299 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:43:46pm

re: #288 Whippet

The flaws in your argument are 2:

1. A Scientific Theory is one that has been adopted after being proven through a great number of experiments and refinements. While such theories can be disproved, they have have survived a number cases where they could have been.

2. All the facts in evidence support evolution. There is no real evidence to support creationism. If you believe that you have any such evidence, please post it or link to it. Be warned however, it will be inspected rigorously.

300 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:44:38pm

re: #288 Whippet

At risk of being banned, I remember when I was a child the controversy of evolution being taught in school. The fear was that the scientific theory would be taught as fact, instead of what it is... a theory. Like the "theory" of man-made global warming, that is exactly what has happened.

For those who claim to only want the sciences taught, I have to wonder... what if science proved creationism. Would you then want it taught in schools in every science program?

Here's another example of the creationist 'just a theory' canard. And here is a referenced response:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

According to the United States National Academy of Sciences,

"Some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time. Theories also allow scientists to make predictions about as yet unobserved phenomena."

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact."

Sal: If the empirical evidence supported creationism, I would accept it. I do not shrink from following wherever the empirical evidence leads me. But the brass tacks facts are that ALL of the empirical evidence supports evolution, while NONE of it supports creationism.

301 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:44:41pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

Only a theory! Drink!

302 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:44:50pm

re: #288 Whippet

At risk of being banned, I remember when I was a child the controversy of evolution being taught in school. The fear was that the scientific theory would be taught as fact, instead of what it is... a theory. Like the "theory" of man-made global warming, that is exactly what has happened.

For those who claim to only want the sciences taught, I have to wonder... what if science proved creationism. Would you then want it taught in schools in every science program?

WTF? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT A SCIENTIFIC FACT IS?

303 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:45:39pm

re: #296 whippet

#289 calcajun

I agree with what you are saying, but unfortunately many people feared that the teaching of evolution was included in the curriculum specifically to deny creationism. This was done where I was from, I believe in the 60's with the onslaught of liberal thought and attitudes being brought into many school programs so it was hardly a stretch for many Christians to fear this new teaching. When the theory became taught as fact that fear was realized.

I have no problem with religious teaching being left out of a school's curriculum, however I have deep concerns about those who do not teach a theory for what it is...a theory.

See my post # 300.

304 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:45:49pm

re: #294 Salamantis

I'm not liking Lou Dobbs more; I'm just liking the rest of the talking pseudonewsheads >i>less.

Just barely got this far, but I agree. Maybe that's it.

305 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:47:40pm

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

306 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:50:15pm

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

That's absolutely not true. There is mountains of empirical evidence to support evolution, from the fossil record to DNA.

307 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:50:43pm

Science is neither liberal nor conservative; it is empirical. Individual scientists may on occasion be either, and their political perspectives might leach into their work. But the peer review process separates the empirically supported wheat from the political leaning chaff.

308 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:50:53pm

[Up next- holes in the knowledge......]

309 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:51:22pm

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

You know..I almost posted that you lacked scientific thought and the ability to discern the difference in theories in the natural world..Your posts had almost an innocent thought process..
Then you had to be a little smart ass didn't you?
Good luck now..You wanna talkie science?

310 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:53:05pm

re: #305 whippet

If you think that, then you've haven't been reading Sal's posts. He's posted plenty of evidence, where's yours?

311 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:53:12pm

#293HoosierHoops
Then you are a better teacher than most.

312 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:54:38pm

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

Again, WTF ? ?
?

1) DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT SCIENCE IS?
2) DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT A SCIENTIFIC FACT IS/
3)DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SCIENCE AND RELIGION?
4) DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE NON SEQUITUR OF YOUR COMMENT?

And I hate yelling. Just ask my family.

313 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:55:20pm

#302 Unakite
Which fact are you referring to?

314 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:55:25pm

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

Every DNA strand in every cell of every organism on this planet supports evolution via random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection:

[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

As do all the fossils collected in paleontology, and all the comparative anotomical and embryological studies.

There are mountains and oceans of empirical evidence supporting evolutionary theory that have been meticulously and painstakingly amassed over a century and a half.

And as of yet, not a single shred of empirical evidence has been found that contradicts evolutionary theory or supports creationism. Not one.

Everyone and all their cousins are still waiting for creationism to show them the science:

[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

So far it has utterly failed to do so.

315 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:56:36pm

#312 Unakite
Do you?

316 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 7:59:45pm

#315 Salamantis
A century and a half? What about those other millions of years?

317 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:00:28pm

This one can't point to purported holes in the scientific knowledge, because it doesn't know about the scientific knowledge in the first place, and without such knowledge, it can't even try to point to any supposed holes.

So let's whippet with knowledge...whippet good...;~)

318 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:00:36pm

re: #313 whippet

#302 Unakite
Which fact are you referring to?

I actually gave this serious consideration and deleted at least three answers that I started to write. The FACTS have been provided too many times. How about doing a minimal amount of research?

319 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:01:32pm

re: #313 whippet

#302 Unakite
Which fact are you referring to?

Oh, and by the way, you state "fact" as singular.
FU.

320 SpaceJesus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:02:08pm

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?


what

321 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:02:29pm

re: #316 whippet

#315 Salamantis
A century and a half? What about those other millions of years?

We've been studying them in the century and a half since Darwins book Origin of Species was published.

Oh, yeah...and life has been here for 3 1/2 billion years...and the earth has been here for a billion years more...and the universe is 13.7 billion years old.

322 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:02:52pm

re: #315 whippet

#312 Unakite
Do you?

You know what..You have already proved you don't have a clue about science..and I'd bet the house you don't have a clue about God either..
If I was you..I'd shut you're ass up right now and move to the back of the room...Your ignorance is out of line here...
You feeling me?

323 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:03:01pm

re: #315 whippet

#312 Unakite
Do you?

Thank you for responding. The answers to questions 1 through 4 is: "yes."

You didn't answer.

324 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:03:04pm

#308 Hoosierhoops
Actually, I did want to talk science....and learn, but this is certainly not the place to do it. Smart ass begets smart ass sometimes.

325 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:04:38pm

Smart ass Invincible ignorance begets smart ass.

326 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:04:42pm

re: #246 Sharmuta

SpaceJesus got called "sharmuta in drag" at Ace's. I think that's hilarious.

ROFLMAO!

327 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:04:56pm

re: #324 whippet

#308 Hoosierhoops
Actually, I did want to talk science....and learn, but this is certainly not the place to do it. Smart ass begets smart ass sometimes.

You could have just tried to enlighten yourself a bit by checking out my links, but I have the strangest feeling that they're beyond your comprehension.

328 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:05:21pm

re: #317 Salamantis

This one can't point to purported holes in the scientific knowledge, because it doesn't know about the scientific knowledge in the first place, and without such knowledge, it can't even try to point to any supposed holes.

So let's whippet with knowledge...whippet good...;~)

:)

329 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:05:34pm

#319 Unakite
The singular fact was repeated since you used the singular fact.

330 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:06:02pm

re: #324 whippet

#308 Hoosierhoops
Actually, I did want to talk science....and learn, but this is certainly not the place to do it. Smart ass begets smart ass sometimes.

You say you want to talk science, yet you have yet to do so. Bring in some evidence or hit the road!

331 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:06:50pm

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

You've just proven you don't understand
Evidence
Evolution
Darwin
Theory
Creation
or
Science.

332 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:07:56pm

re: #324 whippet

#308 Hoosierhoops
Actually, I did want to talk science....and learn, but this is certainly not the place to do it. Smart ass begets smart ass sometimes.

No, you didn't.

333 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:08:23pm

re: #331 jcm

You've just proven you don't understand
Evidence
Evolution
Darwin
Theory
Creation
or
Science.

Other than that..One paper away from a PHd..
Hi JCM..hope tonight finds you well

334 SpaceJesus  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:08:35pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

I am SpaceJesus!

hi

335 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:09:17pm

re: #332 Unakite

No, you didn't.

The young, dumb, and full of arrogant ignorance is strong with this one.

336 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:10:47pm

He;d beter hope that it is ignorance rather than denseness; one can learn one's way out of the former, but the latter lasts a lifetime.

337 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:12:09pm

re: #333 HoosierHoops

Other than that..One paper away from a PHd..
Hi JCM..hope tonight finds you well

Evening Hoops!

Doing well, late evening at work, had to run a munckin into the docs this morning. Nice thing about my job, it's project orientated, not clock.

338 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:13:18pm

re: #329 whippet

#319 Unakite
The singular fact was repeated since you used the singular fact.

WTF are you talking about? I used "FACT" in a f*cking question! And you're trying to turn it around into an argument on whether "fact" is singular or plural?

How about answering the question!

339 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:13:29pm

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.

340 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:14:08pm

re: #334 SpaceJesus

hi

Hello there.

341 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:14:21pm

re: #330 Dark_Falcon

You say you want to talk science, yet you have yet to do so. Bring in some evidence or hit the road!

! :)

342 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:14:24pm

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

I'm impressed with all of the posters up to this post who took the high road and didn't give this morlock a roasting.

But #305 was the point at which, I believe, he proved himself unwilling to challenge his own preconceptions.

343 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:14:53pm

re: #339 whippet

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.

LOL! Trust me- we were being nice!

344 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:15:25pm

arf. wag wag.

345 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:15:29pm

re: #331 jcm

You've just proven you don't understand
Evidence
Evolution
Darwin
Theory
Creation
or
Science.

I think there is a great acronym in there somewhere, but it is too late (fore me anyway) to think of it. :)

346 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:16:49pm

re: #339 whippet

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.


Take a long look in the mirror.

347 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:16:54pm

re: #339 whippet

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.

Good bye and good riddance!

348 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:17:14pm

re: #337 jcm

Evening Hoops!

Doing well, late evening at work, had to run a munckin into the docs this morning. Nice thing about my job, it's project orientated, not clock.

Nice to see you are well..I have the same kind of job..Nobody knows if I'm fixing a Core switch in China at 4am in the GWAN infrastructure.
Nobody messes with me if I'm not in my cube...It's the nature of the Beast.

349 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:17:55pm

re: #335 Salamantis

The young, dumb, and full of arrogant ignorance is strong with this one.

Yes, it is. Let's see how long it lasts.

350 hopperandadropper  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:18:01pm

Let 'em sue. They always lose. What a bunch of maroons.

351 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:18:59pm

re: #348 HoosierHoops

Nice to see you are well..I have the same kind of job..Nobody knows if I'm fixing a Core switch in China at 4am in the GWAN infrastructure.
Nobody messes with me if I'm not in my cube...It's the nature of the Beast.

Its got its downside, when it hits the fan makes for some long days......

352 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:19:31pm

re: #339 whippet

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.

You need to watch this video. BADLY.

353 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:20:02pm

Oops; forgot to add the video!

354 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:20:09pm

re: #336 Salamantis

He;d beter hope that it is ignorance rather than denseness; one can learn one's way out of the former, but the latter lasts a lifetime.

re: #339 whippet

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.

Whooot!

355 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:21:23pm

Discovery Institute style Creationism is reactionary. It proposes no new solutions or theories, it can only attack science, aggressively or passively.
No one who has followed these threads has seen any attempt to explain the world around us, from supporters of D.I. Creationism. They are only capable of futile attempts to critique or tear down what the hard work of scientists built.

356 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:23:03pm

re: #343 Sharmuta

LOL! Trust me- we were being nice!

Did he call us "rabid dogs?"

Jeeze I'm so offended. I was hoping for "shark feeding frenzy!"

Rabid dogs? What a let down.

357 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:25:17pm

re: #305 whippet

You are sound like a prima fascie case for a troll.

The issue here is not "monkey" vs. religion--it's "law". You want the lawas changed or skirted to address what you see as a moral evil? So do a lot of other people who aren't as tolerant as they'd like us to believe. The issue is not whose damned theory is right or which has more evidence to support it. The issue is the underlying theology. The issue is that a government organ is being used to promote religious values -and I don't give flying f--k how benign they are--in direct violation of the First Amendment. The first time that happens and is allowed to continue, then the whole system is in danger of eroding.

You wish to teach your children Creationism--you are more than free to do it. You can send your kids to private schools where it is taught. You can buy a curriculum and teach it at home. The First Amendment allows you to do that. But for the love of all that is holy, do not push it into the public schools for to do that is to push the issue over the edge and onto the slippery slope--at the bottom of which is an abyss.

358 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:27:27pm

re: #339 whippet

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.

Oh please..You didn't even offer one link to backup your claims of science theory..
You wanna learn..Let's swap scientific links...
If you are going to post questionable ideas, scientific doubt, no links and expect to just waltz in here and post pure bullshit and then run out of here with just hurt feelings..You got another thing coming..
Next time you come here questioning science you'd better bring some solid links and your 'A' game..

359 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:31:11pm

re: #297 Unakite

I got downdinged for commenting on how well written your post was. :)

I think kate downdinged you for comparing her rambling, unfavourably, to my response. Her feelings were hurt.

I'm a little miffed that she implied I was trying to goad her into a meltdown. I'm really NOT looking for meltdowns from creationists - I'm looking for a comment like 'wow, that's interesting... where can I find out more about DNA / fossils / carbon-dating'. Can we get some of THOSE over here sometime? Plz?

360 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:37:49pm

re: #359 Zimriel

I think kate downdinged you for comparing her rambling, unfavourably, to my response. Her feelings were hurt.

I'm a little miffed that she implied I was trying to goad her into a meltdown. I'm really NOT looking for meltdowns from creationists - I'm looking for a comment like 'wow, that's interesting... where can I find out more about DNA / fossils / carbon-dating'. Can we get some of THOSE over here sometime? Plz?

I think you're right but it kind of proves the point I was trying to make. She couldn't make an intelligent argument (or almost a coherent sentence), so she retaliated and left.

361 hopperandadropper  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:38:24pm

re: #180 Salamantis

I saw the premiere of "Blood in the Face" at the Sundance Film Festival (at least I think it was the premiere). Very disturbing. Worth watching for anyone who wants to understand what the white supremacist movement is about. Of course, it IS a documentary so the usual caveats apply but there were long stretches of apparently unedited dialogue with the supremacists. They speak for themselves, and it's scary stuff.

362 whippet  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:39:17pm

#358 Hoosierhoops
I came here questioning, innocently, as you correctly assumned in your first response and was met with insult, foul language and arrogance.

My feelings do not get hurt by the actions of people who resort to this form of discussion based on assumptions that they have about me that are incorrect.

363 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:43:00pm

re: #362 whippet

Do you know what "theory" means in a scientific context?

364 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:44:30pm

re: #362 whippet

#358 Hoosierhoops
I came here questioning, innocently, as you correctly assumned in your first response and was met with insult, foul language and arrogance.

My feelings do not get hurt by the actions of people who resort to this form of discussion based on assumptions that they have about me that are incorrect.

The arrogance was on your part. You were asked questions that you did not want to (or could not) answer, and then tried to divert attention with semantics. You got called on it, and you lost.

Oh, by the way, FU. Get over the insults and foul language and answer the questions.

365 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:45:16pm

re: #362 whippet

#358 Hoosierhoops
I came here questioning, innocently, as you correctly assumned in your first response and was met with insult, foul language and arrogance.

My feelings do not get hurt by the actions of people who resort to this form of discussion based on assumptions that they have about me that are incorrect.

If I hurt your feelings..I am sorry..
When you call scientific theory into question you MUST bring solid evidence and links to back up your claim..Nothing less is accepted..
Again..I'm sorry if I was a little strong with you..

366 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:46:14pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

Do you know what "theory" means in a scientific context?

I think that has already been established. The answer is "NO.'
Whippet, would like to prove me wrong?

367 hopperandadropper  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:46:43pm

re: #362 whippet

OK, Whippet, let's be fair here. First question: explain to me, scientifically, why all cell-based organisms have DNA as their genetic material. Hint: "Scientifically" means nothing supernatural. Can't invoke God, Brahma, or the Big Turtle. Must provide the alternative explanation to biological evolution based on physical evidence, and it must be at least as simple as the concept of common origins (Occam's Razor, ya know?).

Clock starts- now.

368 BenghaziHoops  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:46:53pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

Do you know what "theory" means in a scientific context?

No..I don't think so..Let this one go Sharm...

369 Unakite  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:48:13pm

re: #365 HoosierHoops

If I hurt your feelings..I am sorry..
When you call scientific theory into question you MUST bring solid evidence and links to back up your claim..Nothing less is accepted..
Again..I'm sorry if I was a little strong with you..

Ooops! I guess I was just a little strong. :(

370 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:50:50pm

re: #362 whippet

#358 Hoosierhoops
I came here questioning, innocently, as you correctly assumned in your first response and was met with insult, foul language and arrogance.

My feelings do not get hurt by the actions of people who resort to this form of discussion based on assumptions that they have about me that are incorrect.

This is LGF. It's a tough room.

371 calcajun  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:53:42pm

re: #362 whippet

I have not called you any name, but cautioned that you were acting like the kind of person that comes here for the very purpose of baiting people.

I am not one to use invective not I am one to denigrate people, but if you make reference to specifics, you need to be able to support them with evidence. Opinions are only as good as the facts on which they are based.

time for dinner and a walk.
bbl

372 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:54:10pm

re: #335 Salamantis

The young, dumb, and full of arrogant ignorance is strong with this one.

Heh. "The self delusion is strong in this one." - me, on Harry's Place, a little while ago. (took a while, but I think I finally stomped that one to death btw)

373 jcm  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:55:31pm

re: #362 whippet

#358 Hoosierhoops
I came here questioning, innocently, as you correctly assumned in your first response and was met with insult, foul language and arrogance.

My feelings do not get hurt by the actions of people who resort to this form of discussion based on assumptions that they have about me that are incorrect.

Let us start with your first post......

re: #288 Whippet

At risk of being banned, I remember when I was a child the controversy of evolution being taught in school. The fear was that the scientific theory would be taught as fact, instead of what it is... a theory. Like the "theory" of man-made global warming, that is exactly what has happened.

For those who claim to only want the sciences taught, I have to wonder... what if science proved creationism. Would you then want it taught in schools in every science program?

You make the common error of using theory in the common vernacular, not the scientific.

From Wiki.
A theory, in the general sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of observations. A theory does two things:
1. it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and
2. makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.

Second error, what science studies. Creationism hypothesizes a creator. A creator by definition is metaphysical, science intentional avoids the metaphysical. How would you construct a hypothesis for proving creation, then test for it?

Creationism is a belief, it's faith, religion, it's not science.

BTW I firmly believe God created the universe.
I can't prove my belief.
It also cover the why.

The what happened is different from why.
I know the evidence and evolution have the most logical and consistent interpretation of the multidisciplinary study of how it all happened.

374 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:08:06pm

re: #362 whippet

#358 Hoosierhoops
I came here questioning, innocently, as you correctly assumned in your first response and was met with insult, foul language and arrogance.

My feelings do not get hurt by the actions of people who resort to this form of discussion based on assumptions that they have about me that are incorrect.

You were met with logic and links to empirical evidence. You didn't respond to them. Instead, you continued to ask the kinds of questions that indicated you have not even read the thread posts directed to you, much less checked out the links in them.

This kind of behavior tends to peeve people.

I have seen people come into threads like this honestly requesting information about evolution. It was cheerfully provided, and the people providing it were happy to help out.

You are not such an honest seeker. And it shows. Big time.

"I don't give 'em hell; I just tell the truth about 'em and they think it's hell."
- Harry Truman.

375 Sharmuta  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:10:02pm

'whippet' perhaps mistakenly thought we were new at this.

376 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:13:51pm

re: #362 whippet

#358 Hoosierhoops
I came here questioning, innocently, as you correctly assumned in your first response and was met with insult, foul language and arrogance.

My feelings do not get hurt by the actions of people who resort to this form of discussion based on assumptions that they have about me that are incorrect.

Not to assume anything, would you mind telling us your age?

377 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:30:34pm

Just peeped in to see who was still here and hey! Hoops and JLM, don't you ever sleep? Jaunte, do you live in Seattle!? Sharm, I know you don't sleep.

378 hopperandadropper  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:32:46pm

re: #376 jaunte

Good point. Whippet, if you're a young 'un then come on back and say so. We'll talk a spell.

379 jaunte  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:34:42pm

re: #377 katemaclaren

No, I'm on Central time; I just don't sleep much.

380 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:52:19pm

Those smarty pants in here must be able to recommend some creative non-fiction writing in the science/tech field. I'm preparing for a fall course in technical and science writing. I've read Feynman and have enough of him. I have also read some of Tim Berners-Lee's book and an old one on the Internet co-authored by Vint Cerf-which is quite interesting--but a little too 1996. I'm wishing that TBL had some article or another on the semantic web. If anyone out there has read any of Chet Raymo's columns or essays--he's one of the most graceful of all the science writers I've read. So now--suggestion box is open. I would really appreciate some leads. These seniors (engineering and science majors) need to be exposed to scientists who are also articulate. Thanks everyone. I'll come back and check later. Got to go to bed!

381 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:53:24pm

re: #379 jaunte

I wish I were on Central time!

382 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:56:14pm

re: #368 HoosierHoops

Hoops, you sound like Obi Wan in the cantina scene in Star Wars!

383 katemaclaren  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 10:16:33pm

re: #360 Unakite

Oh no. I left because I am working. Still. I don't really judge people's English grammar here--no more than when I have a conversation. Do your friends know about this habit?

ZIMRIEL: Don't be miffed; I'm not miffed; I'm not a creationist, either. I'm sorry if I jumped too quickly at the "troll" comment--I'm just tired tonight. My rambling was not aimed to provoke insult--just to open a window on the possibility that some day, someone might decide that it isn't possible for ANY school of ANY stripe to teach ANY topic not approved by the government. Yes, these were rhetorical questions--meant only to spark thought. When I say "I don't know..." --it really means that I am not sure what the effect has been on the students in such schools. I didn't go to religious schools--my entire family were scientists, doctors and even philosophers--all atheists. However, it doesn't seem that those I know who have gone to "religious" schools have views on scientific issues much different from mine.

384 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 20, 2009 11:16:38pm

re: #380 katemaclaren

Those smarty pants in here must be able to recommend some creative non-fiction writing in the science/tech field. I'm preparing for a fall course in technical and science writing. I've read Feynman and have enough of him. I have also read some of Tim Berners-Lee's book and an old one on the Internet co-authored by Vint Cerf-which is quite interesting--but a little too 1996. I'm wishing that TBL had some article or another on the semantic web. If anyone out there has read any of Chet Raymo's columns or essays--he's one of the most graceful of all the science writers I've read. So now--suggestion box is open. I would really appreciate some leads. These seniors (engineering and science majors) need to be exposed to scientists who are also articulate. Thanks everyone. I'll come back and check later. Got to go to bed!

You might try Why Evolution Is True by Jerry A. Coyne, Emergence: The Connected Lives of Ants, Brains, Cities and Software by Steven Johnson, I Am A Strange Loop by Douglas R. Hofstadter (The guy who wrote Godel, Escher, Back: An Eternal Golden Braid), and At Home in the Universe: The Search for the Laws of Self-Organization and Complexity by Stuart Kaufmann.

For more private, philosophical perusal, I would suggest The Spell of the Sensuous: Perception and Language in a More-Than-Human World by David Abram, The Context of Self: A Phenomenological Inquiry Using Medicine as a Clue by Richard M. Zaner, Complexity & Postmodernism by Paul Cilliers, The Selfish Meme by Kate Distin, and On Meaning by Algirdas Julian Greimas.

385 Abu Lahab  Tue, Apr 21, 2009 4:09:51am

re: #339 whippet

Yes, I will retreat. Closed minds don't educate. I'm going to find a kinder pack of rabid dogs.


That's the most open-minded way to end a civilized discussion I have ever seen.
Go find your pack!

386 Mr Secul  Tue, Apr 21, 2009 5:17:11am

re: #305 whippet

#292 Sharmuta
There's no evidence to prove evolution or Darwinism either, so you reject the theory of creationism. How scientific is that?

You are ignorant.

387 Mr Secul  Tue, Apr 21, 2009 5:17:48am

re: #386 Mr Secul

You are ignorant.

Or dishonest.

388 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 21, 2009 7:12:43am
The lawsuit, filed last week in U.S. District Court, alleges that the coordinating board discriminated against the institute because of its views on evolution.

Heh. Yeah, couldn't have anything to do with a requirement for a scientific degree to have, you know, SCIENCE behind it.

Fun stuff.

389 StillAMarine  Tue, Apr 21, 2009 7:27:58am

But I believe the Earth was created 10 minutes ago by the Cosmic Butterfly (may its title be held in respect). The Cosmic Butterfly (MITBHIR) created us with our false memories of having lived before 10 minutes ago.
PROVE ME WRONG!
/sarc

390 Mr Secul  Tue, Apr 21, 2009 8:38:15am

re: #389 StillAMarine

The universe hasn't been created yet.

Everything that you think you know and everything that you think you remember are fictions to give the, soon to be created, universe an illusion of age.

When the universe is created you will remember thinking, "So if I don't exist right now, how could I possibly be thinking these thoughts?"

The universe will come into being when you think the words, "does any of this make sense?"

Did you spot the transition?

391 hopperandadropper  Tue, Apr 21, 2009 4:48:04pm

re: #380 katemaclaren

Carl Sagan wrote a number of good, very readable books- "The Dragons of Eden" is one. "In the Shadow of Man" by Jane Goodall is good, but more of a journal than a work of nonfiction. "Einstein's Universe" by Nigel Calder is good, and though I haven't read it I suspect "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking is worthwhile. I can't remember the author's name offhand, but there's an interesting book on neurology called "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat".


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