PoliGazette Takes on the Hatebloggers

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Michael van der Galien gets it.

Let one thing be clear: in the battle between Gates of Vienna, Atlas Shrugs on the one hand (I do not count Donald Douglas as truly being on their side for he is much more than an “anti-Jihad blogger” and he is not a xenophobe) and LGF on the other hand, I stand by the latter. I do not always agree with Charles - I’m pro-tea party for instance - but he meant such a great deal to the (international) conservative movement in years gone by that turning against him would be a sign of despicable ungratefulness.

Furthermore, GoV and AS have gone off the deep end, and Charles is right to point out that they have and continue to associate with far-right parties and individuals. “Anti-Jihad” bloggers, as they call themselves, have become Anti-Muslim, Anti-Islam, Anti-Tolerance, and Anti-Equality. Reading the comment sections of these websites is a horrific experience for all who care somewhat about common decency and tolerance. These people - again, I am not talking about people like Donald or Robert S. McCain for they are not “anti-Jihad bloggers” but simply conservative bloggers who are also foreign policy hawks - have become radicals in their own right. Associating with them does not merely destroy one’s credibility, it is also a crime against decency.

To conservative bloggers like RSM and DD I have only this to say: make no mistake about it, AS and GoV are not ‘conservative blogs.’ Nor are they websites you should be associated with. They are ignorant radicals driven by hate. Conservatives everywhere are wise to distance themselves as much as possible from them.

Further reading:
Civil War Raging in Right-Wing Blogosphere

UPDATE at 4/22/09 9:31:43 am:

Also see

Jump to bottom

446 comments
1 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:31:49am

I don’t feel so alone now.

2 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:32:03am
Reading the comment sections of these websites is a horrific experience for all who care somewhat about common decency and tolerance

I couldn’t agree more.

3 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:32:42am

It’s good to see that someone else has noticed the problem!

This has to be about individuals, and individual actions, not ascribing guilt to an entire group.

4 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:33:25am
They are ignorant radicals driven by hate. Conservatives everywhere are wise to distance themselves as much as possible from them.


Word up.

5 saberry0530  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:33:33am

LGF - 7

AS/GOV - 0

6 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:33:43am
In a recent conversation, a fellow psych blogger remarked Johnson’s focus on evolution/creationism was becoming a ‘distraction’. I responded that I thought the conversation was not distracting and in fact, was necessary. I also said that I agreed with him. My friend was somewhat curious, noting that I was a believer in God. I replied that I saw no conflict between faith and science and I understood where Johnson was coming from.

Really wonderful to see.

7 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:33:52am

The ends do not justify the means in most instances. Associating with scum tarnishes whatever goals or outcome you may hope to achieve. It’s true on the left, the right and in the middle.

8 funky chicken  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:34:37am

RSM is a frothing Paulian. He was proudly proclaiming that defeating McCain was necessary and would be good for the “conservative movement” up until election day.

I’d expect his type to feel more allegiance to lunatics like “Pam Atlas” than to Charles.

9 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:34:57am

Charles, it’s nice to see you gaining some support from the calm and rational.

10 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:35:26am

Meanwhile, Robert S. McCain also posted about this (after bashing me repeatedly recently) and actually defends Pat Buchanan. No link from me.

11 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:35:51am

In the mean time, the CIA is being scared into inaction.

Slow Roll Time At Langley

…Sad to say, it’s slow roll time at Langley after the release of interrogation memos that, in the words of one veteran officer, “hit the agency like a car bomb in the driveway.” President Obama promised CIA officers that they won’t be prosecuted for carrying out lawful orders, but the people on the firing line don’t believe him. They think the memos have opened a new season of investigation and retribution.

The lesson for younger officers is obvious: Keep your head down. Duck the assignments that carry political risk. Stay away from a counterterrorism program that has become a career hazard.

12 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:36:14am

re: #3 Dianna

It’s good to see that someone else has noticed the problem!

This has to be about individuals, and individual actions, not ascribing guilt to an entire group.

I’m starting to wonder when so many people stopped seeing themselves as anything but part of one group or another.

13 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:37:03am
Many of the political figures and parties he excoriates have less than savory backgrounds and there is good reason to believe that some of these figures and parties have adopted more palatable positions and ideologies for reasons of expediency only. Given the nature 0f the political beast, he is standing on firm ground. The onus of proof of sincerity lies on those politicians, not on those who question them.

Well put.

14 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:37:11am

I wish he would have included Jihad Watch. I have seen out right bigoted death wishes being posted by the folk there, and Robert doesn’t have the board monitored any more than GoV or As or Stormfront for a matter of fact.

15 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:37:32am

There was a relevant part of the Chabad’s “Daily Dose” today.

Stoop to conquer Evil and you will only join it in its mud. Against Evil, you must march on the clouds, never looking down, climbing ever higher, until you reach a brilliant, blinding light — a light that leaves no crevice for darkness to hide.


You certainly will join Evil in the mud if you ally with one evil entity to fight another.
You can read the whole thing at the link above.

16 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:37:38am

re: #11 thebigolddog

In the mean time, the CIA is being scared into inaction.

Slow Roll Time At Langley

I believe that is EXACTLY the reaction the administration was hoping for on the part of CIA.

17 redheadredstate  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:37:54am

In this era of Republican bashing by the left we don’t need to give them any more ammo. Right Wing Hate Blogs should be shunned by all conservatives. There is no room for this kind of thing at this critical time. We do want to win in 2010 and 2012 don’t we?

18 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:38:10am

I think Irish Rose started a trend. Way to go, Rose!

19 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:38:12am

re: #10 Charles

and actually defends Pat Buchanan.

Ugh. Ugh. I just can’t stomach that. How come people can’t spot how vile that man is? If I could tell, back in the mid-80’s and 90’s, why can’t all these other people?

20 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:38:26am

re: #12 debutaunt

I’m starting to wonder when so many people stopped started seeing themselves as anything but part of one group or another.

21 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:38:42am

re: #16 CIA Reject

I believe that is EXACTLY the reaction the administration was hoping for on the part of CIA.

This century’s Chuch Committee is coming soon.

22 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:38:57am
Reading the comment sections of these websites is a horrific experience for all who care somewhat about common decency and tolerance.

Most agreed. Some of the worst I’ve seen are from people Charles banned from LGF for attempting to make similar comments. A few of these jerks made their own sites with comment sections just as despicable.

I’ve seen deportation comments at Gates of Vienna and Kill them all comments at Jihad Watch. Then there’s the poorly-named Atlas Shrugs which should be named Atlas Shrieks. Then we have the people Charles banned for their comments. There’s AtS with it’s own bunch of nutters and weather clowns. There’s the counterfeit site with its sheer hate for the current denziens of LGF on display for all to see. Quite frankly, it’s a major freak show with the freaks in control of the sites and commenting to them.

23 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:16am

re: #19 Dianna

Ugh. Ugh. I just can’t stomach that. How come people can’t spot how vile that man is? If I could tell, back in the mid-80’s and 90’s, why can’t all these other people?

Er, because they agree with him. It’s really easy to understand?

24 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:20am

RS McCain is a contributor to the absolutely disgusting Takimag — a European extreme right racist journal, connected to Pat Buchanan.

25 jaunte  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:36am

re: #13 Sharmuta

Another good quote from SC&A:

This is America. Forced religious instruction, cultural mores and tribalism are antithetical to everything this nation stands for. Millions of immigrants came to these shores precisely because they and their children would not be indoctrinated. Why there so many people in this country who insist we must become a monument to mediocrity, no different from the very nations with whom we take issue, is a mystery.

Johnson reminds us that in a free society we do not care about your beliefs. We do care about your actions and your behavior. Your beliefs are your own and we really don’t care what you believe. Do not tell us we need to care about your beliefs and your concerns above all else and above our own concerns and beliefs.

26 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:37am

re: #21 MandyManners

This century’s Chuch Committee is coming soon.

Indeed.

The circus is in town for sure …

27 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:38am

re: #12 debutaunt

That’s an excellent question. I wish I had a good answer.

Back in the day, I used to say that we all were a minority of one, and that was why I favored individual rights and opposed group rights. Some days, it seems we’ve lost that sense.

28 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:47am

I’d like to get van der Galien’s take on Spencer’s cordial hate site.

29 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:51am

I like this post a lot. I will not go to a blog, or any site that promote racism and aligns itself with fascism. I don’t always agree with the posts or comments here, but I am always sure of a balanced debate that will be racism free and as honest as possible. Thanks, Charles.

30 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:39:53am

re: #11 thebigolddog

In the mean time, the CIA is being scared into inaction.

Slow Roll Time At Langley

That is exactly what Obama’s stupidity from yesterday did. Nobody will want to do anything now. Agencies will not help one another. Going on a witch hunt is about as destructive as you can get. Great job, El Presidente. Perhaps you can post names, addresses and photos of all of our spies now too?

31 MJ  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:40:07am

“And it will always happen that he who is not your friend will request your neutrality and he who is your friend will ask you to declare yourself by taking up arms. And irresolute princes, in order to avoid present dangers, follow the neutral road most of the time, and most of the time they are ruined.”

— Niccolo Machiavelli

[Link: historymedren.about.com…]

Good for Michael van der Galien for no longer being neutral in this matter.

32 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:40:09am

re: #16 CIA Reject

I believe that is EXACTLY the reaction the administration was hoping for on the part of CIA.

Do you feel safer now than you did 4 months and two days ago?

33 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:40:25am

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

I literally cannot read the comment section over there any more.

34 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:40:37am

Good piece from Michael. I’ve been noticing some of the same me-tooism from others on the right who are injecting themselves into this story and who have little if any history with this LGF; I suspect it’s as a means of ginning up some traffic.

35 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:41:03am

re: #19 Dianna

Ugh. Ugh. I just can’t stomach that. How come people can’t spot how vile that man is? If I could tell, back in the mid-80’s and 90’s, why can’t all these other people?


I think they see it, but don’t care. They are only looking a one or two issues and dismissing the rest as unimportant. It will come back and smack them silly at some point, because their credibility will be gone.

36 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:41:06am

re: #32 Kosh’s Shadow

Do you feel safer now than you did 4 months and two days ago?

No.

37 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:41:09am

re: #19 Dianna

Ugh. Ugh. I just can’t stomach that. How come people can’t spot how vile that man is? If I could tell, back in the mid-80’s and 90’s, why can’t all these other people?

His books are dripping in paranoia and antisemitism….how he still gets on TV or is taken seriously by anyone is amazing.

38 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:41:27am

re: #25 jaunte

The whole thing was really well done.

39 MJ  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:41:58am

re: #24 Charles

Isn’t that American Conservative magazine? American Spectator was a different magazine unless Buchanan bought it out.

40 jimzinsocal  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:42:19am

My 2 cents. No I havent been posting here for very long but Ive followed
the site for what seems like years.
I happen to agree with Charles’ reasoned approach on some of these issues.
He stays away from what I call “reflexive headline-grabbing hysteria” and often presents
a point of view that is based more on research than “memorandum glitter”
so many sites seem to thrive on.
Whats the rush anyway? Where is the reward in being the “first to bitch”
when there is nothing…really to bitch about?

IMO

41 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:42:21am

re: #24 Charles

Wait - American Spectator is Buchanan’s, now? What?

I haven’t subscribed in years - more than a decade - but I never read any articles by Buchanan when I did.

42 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:42:37am

Like this part jaunte:

It has been said that Jazz is really the story of America, that playing those improvised notes in relation to and in response to the music is in fact the story of our sucess as a nation. We are never bound to the notes on the page and are always at our best pushing the envelope and coloring outside the lines. Charles Johnson and Little Green Footballs are examples of what we do best. We challenge ourselves, we challenge others and we challenge the status quo.

43 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:42:53am

re: #24 Charles

American Conservative. The Spectator is harsh, but I have never seen racism.

44 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:43:06am

re: #35 VioletTiger

I think they see it, but don’t care. They are only looking a one or two issues and dismissing the rest as unimportant. It will come back and smack them silly at some point, because their credibility will be gone.

People aren’t thinking. Hatred cripples reason, it always has and it always will.

45 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:43:17am

re: #36 CIA Reject

No.

I don’t feel safer either; in fact, I feel a lot less safe. Under GWB, it was like flying on a US airline - there was some danger, but it was handled very well.
I now feel like I’m on some third world airline, and they’re about to start cooking a goat on a fire in steerage.

46 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:43:30am

re: #24 Charles

What’s Buchanan’s connection to the magazine besides articles? I’ve never been to their website, but I just did, and I can’t find Buchanan listed as having anything to do with the ownership.

And no, I can’t stand Buchanan, I’m not defending him (or the Spectator) I’m just curious about the connection so if someone hit’s me up with this magazine, I can point this out.

47 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:43:40am

re: #37 Desert Dog

His books are dripping in paranoia and antisemitism….how he still gets on TV or is taken seriously by anyone is amazing.

Because more people are anti-Semitic than will admit it.

48 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:44:33am

re: #39 MJ

Isn’t that American Conservative magazine? American Spectator was a different magazine unless Buchanan bought it out.

My impression, too. I’ve browsed American Spectator from time to time, never noticed anything untoward. American Conservative? Another thing entirely… Buchananite hate.

49 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:45:03am

re: #47 Kosh’s Shadow

Because more people are anti-Semitic than will admit it.

What is scary is how many feel perfectly ok to admit it these days.

50 calcajun  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:45:06am

Ah! The battle lines are forming! Fix Bayonets!

51 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:45:09am
52 yesandno  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:45:11am
To be clear, Johnson doesn’t need me to defend him. He is quite capable of defending himself. There are those who have serious differences with him and others who have made their adversarial relationship personal. It is not my intention to determine the motivations of his critics.

Charles Johnson has remained a force in the blogosphere because he is intellectually consistent. His positions have not changed or wavered. Remarkably, he has managed to aggravate the entire political spectrum, no small feat. Even his harshest critics (on either side) cannot dismiss him or the influence his blog has because when all is said and done, his arguments are relevant to his supporters and detractors.

CJ—A rock—solid and steadfast. An honor to post here.

53 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:45:16am

re: #24 Charles

RS McCain is a contributor to Pat Buchanan’s racist, antisemitic American Spectator magazine, and has also written articles for the absolutely disgusting Takimag — a European extreme right racist journal.

For point that out, you’re going to be called:

a) a Communist,
b) a Nazi
c) a Jew
d) a Muslim
e) all of the above


I must be wonderful to be so loved.

54 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:45:48am

re: #28 Cato the Elder

I’d like to get van der Galien’s take on Spencer’s cordial hate site.

Check the seventh and eighth comments here.

55 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:45:53am

re: #46 Walter L. Newton

I think some people have pointed out that it’s not the American Spectator, but the American Conservative.

Which would be a relief.

56 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:46:00am

Clinton says Cheney not a ‘reliable source’ on torture
Published: 04.22.09, 19:18 / Israel News
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took aim at former Vice President Dick Cheney, telling lawmakers she did not view him as a “particularly reliable source” on issues of torture.

Asked about Cheney’s request this week to declassify documents showing the “success” of some widely condemned interrogation techniques launched by ex-President George W. Bush, Clinton said, “It won’t surprise you that I don’t consider him (Cheney) a particularly reliable source.” (Reuters)

Then it would not upset you if people called you a lying bitch, would it?

57 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:46:14am

You folks are right — I misspoke about American Spectator. However, McCain certainly is a contributor to Takimag, and that’s even worse than Buchanan’s rag.

58 ORD neighbor  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:46:16am

Apparently even ideas that are quite simple turn out to be quite complicated for some.

59 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:46:23am

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

Just as jiggering the census count through ACORN’s participation creates de facto reapportionment without having to actually go through the messy mechanics of doing so, scaring the intelligence community into insular inaction (not that they’ve been balls of fire up to now) accomplishes re-erecting the wall of separation between them that pertained in the Clinton years without the necessity of hearings or legislation or executive orders.

In both cases, the end is accomplished by “soft” means, which are harder to record and track, therefore harder to call to account—and harder to undo. They continue Obama’s college-era record of not leaving a paper trail. And they play merry hell with the most basic functioning of the government.

This President said he was for change and it looks like he is delivering. Change for the worse, unfortunately.

60 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:46:32am

re: #50 calcajun

Ah! The battle lines are forming! Fix Bayonets!

My Mossberg actually has a bayonet lug!

(Kind of inconvenient… I’d like to get a nice Surefire light/integrated fore-end, but I’d have to saw off the damn lug or it would get in the way.)

61 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:47:04am

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

And they play merry hell with the most basic functioning of the government.

Not to mention that little thing called national security.

62 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:47:17am

re: #43 coquimbojoe

American Conservative. The Spectator is harsh, but I have never seen racism.

I think you’re right. I looked it up quickly. The Spectator is not owned by Buchanan, but has printed some of his articles in the past. It’s the American Conservative that’s is Buchanan’s.

63 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:47:44am

Wikipedia says:

McCain has been criticized by the Southern Poverty Law Center, who called him a member of the white supremacist hate group, League of the South and “has often inserted excerpts of material written by hate groups” into the Times. “In addition, McCain is the only national reporter to cover four conferences put on by American Renaissance. Until 2004, McCain had never mentioned its controversial nature.”

64 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:47:50am

re: #19 Dianna

Ugh. Ugh. I just can’t stomach that. How come people can’t spot how vile that man [Buchanan] is? If I could tell, back in the mid-80’s and 90’s, why can’t all these other people?

The main reason people defend puke-cannon is they like what he says about the Juice.

65 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:47:55am

re: #56 Nevergiveup

Clinton says Cheney not a ‘reliable source’ on torture
Published: 04.22.09, 19:18 / Israel News
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took aim at former Vice President Dick Cheney, telling lawmakers she did not view him as a “particularly reliable source” on issues of torture.

Asked about Cheney’s request this week to declassify documents showing the “success” of some widely condemned interrogation techniques launched by ex-President George W. Bush, Clinton said, “It won’t surprise you that I don’t consider him (Cheney) a particularly reliable source.” (Reuters)

Then it would not upset you if people called you a lying bitch, would it?

Darth Cheney, repository of all evil in the known universe and the mastermind of both 9/11 and torture at Gitmo, isn’t a reliable source on interrogation techniques? The left has spent the last 8 years saying exactly the opposite.

66 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:47:59am

“Takimag”? Sounds like one of these annoying Japanese/Korean anime trading card deals…

67 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:48:00am

re: #57 Charles

You folks are right — I misspoke about American Spectator. However, McCain certainly is a contributor to Takimag, and that’s even worse than Buchanan’s rag.

Whew! Glad to read that.

I’ve never read Takimag. I’ll leave it to those with stronger stomachs and more time.

Yes, Killgore, I’m looking at you!

68 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:48:01am

re: #56 Nevergiveup

Clinton says Cheney not a ‘reliable source’ on torture
Published: 04.22.09, 19:18 / Israel News
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took aim at former Vice President Dick Cheney, telling lawmakers she did not view him as a “particularly reliable source” on issues of torture.

Asked about Cheney’s request this week to declassify documents showing the “success” of some widely condemned interrogation techniques launched by ex-President George W. Bush, Clinton said, “It won’t surprise you that I don’t consider him (Cheney) a particularly reliable source.” (Reuters)

Then it would not upset you if people called you a lying bitch, would it?

Hey, if the shoe fits….

69 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:48:03am

re: #56 Nevergiveup

Clinton says Cheney not a ‘reliable source’ on torture

Would this be the same President Clinton who authorized extraordinary rendition?

70 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:48:16am

re: #45 Kosh’s Shadow

I don’t feel safer either; in fact, I feel a lot less safe. Under GWB, it was like flying on a US airline - there was some danger, but it was handled very well.
I now feel like I’m on some third world airline, and they’re about to start cooking a goat on a fire in steerage.

The goal of any intelligence service is to ensnare it’s opposition service in a “witch hunt”, a set of circumstances where the service cannot trust any of its components and productivity grinds to a halt because everyone associated with the service is hunkered down in “saveass” mode.

The KGB tried to do that to the CIA for fifty years and (mostly) failed. Obama has succeded with a single press release.

71 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:48:51am

re: #34 JammieWearingFool

I don’t want to be too cynical- it could be these folks agree with Charles that the shriekers need to stfu. It’s been a long time coming for some folks to finally step up and for decency to have some allies. I, for one, am glad to see it.

72 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:49:15am

re: #57 Charles

You folks are right — I misspoke about American Spectator. However, McCain certainly is a contributor to Takimag, and that’s even worse than Buchanan’s rag.

(Important to note, Dear Readers, that this is a reference to Robert S. McCain, NOT to John McCain.)

73 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:49:21am

OT, but this was discussed a few week back;

N.Korea has world’s largest artillery force


Sharp, commander of some 28,500 US troops in South Korea, said the North has “an old but very large military that is positioned in a very dangerous place, very close” to South Korea.

“They have a very large special operating force. It has the world’s largest artillery force that is positioned as far south as possible and that can rain on Seoul today,” he told local business leaders.

The North maintains 80,000 special forces and is believed to have some 13,000 artillery pieces deployed along the border, Sharp said.

74 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:50:37am

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The North maintains 80,000 special forces

If there are 80,000 of them, how special can they be?

/

75 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:51:17am
76 jwb7605  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:51:24am

re: #54 wrenchwench

Check the seventh and eighth comments here.

#7:

He’s a true Republican.


#8:

I agree with you.


If I thought Charles was connected to a party, I’d ask him to remove my login. He frustrates me occasionally, but he’s totally worth reading on balance.

While #7 and #8 mean well, I disagree with them.

77 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:51:47am

(I have to admit, I do feel jealous that I didn’t come up with the phrase “Charlie Johnson’s War”.)

78 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:51:47am

re: #74 Occasional Reader

If there are 80,000 of them, how special can they be?

/

Must be the NORK version of Lake Woebegone.

79 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:51:48am

re: #49 Desert Dog

What is scary is how many feel perfectly ok to admit it these days.

I’m glad folks are admitting it because it’s impossible to debate silence.

80 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:52:01am

re: #24 Charles

RS McCain is a contributor to Pat Buchanan’s racist, antisemitic American Spectator magazine…

Not to be confused with R. Emmett Tyrell’s American Conservative magazine.

/oops!

81 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:52:28am

re: #74 Occasional Reader

If there are 80,000 of them, how special can they be?

/

Like Saddam’s Republican Guard?

82 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:52:35am

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT, but this was discussed a few week back;

N.Korea has world’s largest artillery force

That is their “deterrent” until they perfect the nukes. If the South or the US even thinks about attacking, you can kiss Seoul goodbye. They are not as strong as they portray themselves, but we cannot knock out all of those guns at once.

83 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:52:45am

Charlie Johnson’s War is a great piece.

84 vxbush  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:52:52am

re: #76 jwb7605

If I thought Charles was connected to a party, I’d ask him to remove my login. He frustrates me occasionally, but he’s totally worth reading on balance.

While #7 and #8 mean well, I disagree with them.

I will let Charles speak for himself regarding his political position. I find it highly presumptuous for anyone to say what he is. Those posters have no right to state it.

85 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:52:59am

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sharp, commander of some 28,500 US troops in South Korea

Sharp’s Rifles! Cool.

86 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:53:37am

re: #80 Dar ul Harb

That didn’t help, especially for those of us who aren’t familiar with either magazine.

87 ducktrapper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:53:55am

Aw but Fjordman and company are such cultured, nicely mannered, concerned neo-Nazis! How could you Charles?

88 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:54:02am

re: #82 Desert Dog

That is their “deterrent” until they perfect the nukes. If the South or the US even thinks about attacking, you can kiss Seoul goodbye. They are not as strong as they portray themselves, but we cannot knock out all of those guns at once.

Nope. They might be out of date, but when you got enough of them, they make up for it.

89 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:54:03am

re: #81 Son of the Black Dog

Like Saddam’s Republican Guard?

HEY, that’s the ELITE Republican Guard! You know, they ones that got their asses totally and completely kicked by our “regular old” Army.

90 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:54:31am

re: #85 Occasional Reader

Sharp’s Rifles! Cool.

How many times has Cornwell written the same book, now?

91 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:54:34am

re: #74 Occasional Reader

If there are 80,000 of them, how special can they be?

/

These soldiers get more than one meal a day!

92 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:54:48am

re: #80 Dar ul Harb

Not to be confused with R. Emmett Tyrell’s American Conservative magazine.

/oops!

Say what you will about Tyrell, he makes some damn fine replicants.

93 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:54:51am
94 yesandno  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:55:07am

re: #69 Kenneth

Actually, it was the other Clinton………

/not Dewitt, but Dimwit….

95 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:55:09am

Sigmund, Carl and Alfred have gov on their blogroll. They might want to remedy that.

96 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:55:46am

re: #93 buzzsawmonkey

The Elite shouldn’t pica fight, it seems.

ELITE must mean something else in Arabic and Farsi…..inept? crappy? sub-par? weak?

97 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:56:27am

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT, but this was discussed a few week back;

N.Korea has world’s largest artillery force

So how much stimulus money will it cost to avert the attack on Seoul?

98 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:56:30am
99 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:56:32am

re: #82 Desert Dog

That is their “deterrent” until they perfect the nukes. If the South or the US even thinks about attacking, you can kiss Seoul goodbye. They are not as strong as they portray themselves, but we cannot knock out all of those guns at once.

Tactical Nukes?

100 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:56:39am

re: #85 Occasional Reader

Sharp’s Rifles! Cool.

Especially since “sharpshooter” got its name from the Sharp rifles in the Civil War. (According to the History Channel)

101 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:56:45am

re: #96 Desert Dog

ELITE must mean something else in Arabic and Farsi…..inept? crappy? sub-par? weak?

Elite = relatives who know who pays the bills

102 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:57:07am

re: #89 Desert Dog

HEY, that’s the ELITE Republican Guard! You know, they ones that got their asses totally and completely kicked by our “regular old” Army.

I remember reading a very matter of fact military analysis just prior to GWII that pointed out that the training of the “elite” Iraqi units maybe approached that of our regular ol’ infantry units. But that was about it.

103 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:57:21am

re: #99 Nevergiveup

Tactical Nukes?

Not a chance

104 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:57:32am

And of course there is a comment at Sigmund, Carl and Alfred whining about being banned at LGF.

105 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:57:34am

re: #72 Occasional Reader

(Important to note, Dear Readers, that this is a reference to Robert S. McCain, NOT to John McCain.)

And also not Megan McCain, who is a fox imho.

106 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:57:39am

re: #93 buzzsawmonkey

The Elite shouldn’t pica fight, it seems.

Maybe they need to send a Courier first.

107 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:57:51am

re: #93 buzzsawmonkey

The Elite shouldn’t pica fight, it seems.

You’re thinking back to the days of Caesar. These are the Times for New Roman tactics.

108 yma o hyd  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:58:10am

re: #90 Dianna

How many times has Cornwell written the same book, now?

Sigh.
It was a very long war, after all …

109 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:58:24am

re: #102 Occasional Reader

I remember reading a very matter of fact military analysis just prior to GWII that pointed out that the training of the “elite” Iraqi units maybe approached that of our regular ol’ infantry units. But that was about it.

I think once our regular ol’ army approached, the Elite did their best Jesse Owens imitation and ran like the wind!

110 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:58:35am

re: #99 Nevergiveup

Tactical Nukes?

Too close to the South, I’d guess. Too much collateral damage.

111 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:58:40am
112 Mithrax  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:58:45am

re: #107 Occasional Reader

You’re thinking back to the days of Caesar. These are the Times for New Roman tactics.

So, you’re the font man for the new text order?

113 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:58:48am

re: #103 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not a chance

Me Bomber Harris and General LeMay would have gotten along I think?

114 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:58:50am

re: #89 Desert Dog

HEY, that’s the ELITE Republican Guard! You know, they ones that got their asses totally and completely kicked by our “regular old” Army.

Yeah, that’s the word. I was drawing a total blank on it.

115 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:59:07am

re: #106 Kosh’s Shadow

Maybe they need to send a Courier first.

Why not just send the message by radio? Is there something wrong with the Arial?

116 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:59:18am

re: #76 jwb7605

If I thought Charles was connected to a party, I’d ask him to remove my login. He frustrates me occasionally, but he’s totally worth reading on balance.

While #7 and #8 mean well, I disagree with them.


I was only trying to illustrate what Michael van der Galien thought about Jihad Watch, not Charles, in answer to Cato the Elder’s inquiry. You only quoted part of what’s there.

117 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:59:21am

re: #107 Occasional Reader

You’re thinking back to the days of Caesar. These are the Times for New Roman tactics.

How about the wingdings at Jihad Watch. They’re FU’d too (font uped).

118 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:59:22am

re: #57 Charles

You folks are right — I misspoke about American Spectator. However, McCain certainly is a contributor to Takimag, and that’s even worse than Buchanan’s rag.

And if Robert Spencer could only have the mental capacity and personal integrity to do exactly what you just did with your post here. It could have saved him worlds of heartache.

Is intellectual honesty so hard Robert?

119 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:59:36am

re: #107 Occasional Reader

You’re thinking back to the days of Caesar. These are the Times for New Roman tactics.

Maybe in the Gothic era…

120 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:59:43am

re: #104 Sharmuta

And of course there is a comment at Sigmund, Carl and Alfred whining about being banned at LGF.

I saw that. I answered it. Some twit named Robohobo.

121 yma o hyd  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:00:28am

re: #104 Sharmuta

And of course there is a comment at Sigmund, Carl and Alfred whining about being banned at LGF.

Only one?
Don’t they usually travel in whining packs?
More are bound to turn up …

122 jwb7605  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:00:30am

re: #84 vxbush

I will let Charles speak for himself regarding his political position. I find it highly presumptuous for anyone to say what he is. Those posters have no right to state it.

Here’s an interesting comment (snippet from #9)

I however can say that Charles Johnson and his ilk are part of the reason the conservative movement is fractured in America. This “my way or the highway” approach they have used, in which any disagreement to the LGF line is attacked in the most vengeful, disgraceful, and in a very personal way, has done great harm. To put it plain sirs, Charles Johnson is a disgrace. I am a classical liberal (of the enlightenment), I accept the Theory of Evolution, I don’t much care for people like Ron Paul, I am very pro-science, but I am dedicated to the principle of freedom, liberty, and most important of all debate. CJ seems not to want debate of any kind, but instead bans anyone for the SLIGHTEST disagreement with him on ANYTHING. It does not matter what the disagreement is about either. You can say it is his site, and he can do whatever he wants, and this is true, but don’t hold yourself up as the model of free speech, the defender of liberty, and as the “true republican”, when you instead of debating people in a honorable manner resort to name calling, trash talking, and in general acting like tyrannical thug. People like him are dangerous, because they think that they have all the answers in life, and that everyone on this earth must march in lock step with them. Well I am sorry, but no true American does that.


The trouble is, I agree with the first sentence. The rest is garbage.
The “conservative movement” needs a good dose of the concepts of “classical liberalism”, which the poster claims to be.
I also think I have all the answers in life (except for maybe one or two …), and oddly enough I’ve not been banned here.
Charles is apparently more tolerant than he often gets credit for.

123 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:00:46am

Yankee afternoon game starting. I almost went out there today.

124 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:00:54am

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

How about the wingdings at Jihad Watch. They’re FU’d too (font uped).

Indeed, they get less lucida by the day.

Lunch!

125 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:00:56am
126 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:01:07am

re: #100 Kosh’s Shadow

Especially since “sharpshooter” got its name from the Sharp rifles in the Civil War. (According to the History Channel)

That damned Yankee rifle that you loaded on Sunday and fired all week.

127 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:01:34am

re: #22 Honorary Yooper

Most agreed. Some of the worst I’ve seen are from people Charles banned from LGF for attempting to make similar comments. A few of these jerks made their own sites with comment sections just as despicable.

I’ve seen deportation comments at Gates of Vienna and Kill them all comments at Jihad Watch. Then there’s the poorly-named Atlas Shrugs which should be named Atlas Shrieks. Then we have the people Charles banned for their comments. There’s AtS with it’s own bunch of nutters and weather clowns. There’s the counterfeit site with its sheer hate for the current denziens of LGF on display for all to see. Quite frankly, it’s a major freak show with the freaks in control of the sites and commenting to them.

It’s impressive how quickly Charles kicks them out of here.

128 yochanan  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:03:01am

A.G. HOLDER states today that they will fellow the evidence were it leads. sure sounds like he is going to go after BUSHIES. or maybe a Cheney or two.

129 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:03:08am

re: #126 Son of the Black Dog

That damned Yankee rifle that you loaded on Sunday and fired all week.

(pops back in)

I thought that famous description was of the Henry rifle?

130 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:03:08am

re: #86 Dianna

That didn’t help, especially for those of us who aren’t familiar with either magazine.

Fast as I could be on an iPhone, sorry.

131 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:03:53am

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT, but this was discussed a few week back;

N.Korea has world’s largest artillery force

Co-worker is former arty officer, he did a couple tours in S. Korea, he says the Norks arty is a cast iron bitch to counter battery. A lot of it is on rails an rolls back into the mountain. The have programmed firing solutions, roll out fire a round and roll back in. By the time counter battery arrives they’ve rolled back in.

132 yma o hyd  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:04:01am

re: #120 Honorary Yooper

I saw that. I answered it. Some twit named Robohobo.

You were exceedingly well-spoken and polite!

133 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:04:13am

re: #108 yma o hyd

Sigh.
It was a very long war, after all …

Well, now he’s got a Hundred Years’ War series going, so he can write the same book lots more times!

134 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:04:33am

re: #1 Honorary Yooper

I don’t feel so alone now.

CHARLES shouldn’t feel so alone now.

135 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:04:38am

re: #112 Mithrax

So, you’re the font man for the new text order?

Do not get couriered away.

136 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:05:09am

re: #120 Honorary Yooper

I saw that. I answered it. Some twit named Robohobo.

My comment over at SCA:

Robohobo, the differences with Gates of Vienna were over their support of the Vlaams Belang, a Belgian fascist organization. It’s not Godwin’s Law to call someone a fascist if they actively support fascists as Baron Bodissey and Dymphna have.

As for the bannings, Charles does not ban those who disagree with him. He bans the uncivil, uncouth, and downright nasty commentors, as well he should. Those commentors are a disgrace to any blog.

137 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:05:13am

OK - It’s official: the CIA Witch Hunt has begun!

138 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:05:25am

re: #135 jcm

Do not get couriered away.

May the San Seriffs watch over you.

139 yma o hyd  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:05:40am

re: #133 Dianna

Well, now he’s got a Hundred Years’ War series going, so he can write the same book lots more times!

Aww - he’s got to earn his bread in some fashion or other …

140 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:06:08am

re: #10 Charles

Meanwhile, Robert S. McCain also posted about this (after bashing me repeatedly recently) and actually defends Pat Buchanan. No link from me.

RS McCain has also defended TakiMag. I have no time for him.

I suspect Van der Galien suspects that much. He’s sending a warning to RS McCain (and Donald Douglas, I suppose, but hadn’t read him). I read it as a bloggish form of tabligh.

(My understanding of jihad law is that the messenger must first deliver [tabligh] a message inviting the opponent to come to terms. Only if the opponent rejects the message can hostilities commence.)

141 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:06:13am

re: #129 Occasional Reader

(pops back in)

I thought that famous description was of the Henry rifle?

IIRC, it was actually first applied to the Sharp’s.

142 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:06:29am

re: #92 Occasional Reader

Say what you will about Tyrell, he makes some damn fine replicants.

More human than human, I’ve heard.

143 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:07:18am

re: #21 MandyManners

This century’s Chuch Committee is coming soon.

Why do we need to keep re-inventing the wheel. Sober critics acknowledge that Human Intelligence is critical to infiltrating groups like these terrorists we face. And Human Intelligence is exactly what Church’s committee started the process of disassembling. Technological surveillance is not a proper substitute. While it may be useful in identifying the number of ICBM systems a country like the Soviet Union had, it is useless in identifying the capabilities of people who live in caves. And much as we’d love to use nothing but pure as the driven snow assets to infiltrate these groups, nuns are in short supply and are no longer available to conduct this task.
/ Democrats/Liberals are dangerous to Your Health - Surgeon General’s Warning.

144 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:07:20am

re: #142 Dar ul Harb

More human than human, I’ve heard.

Astrocreep 2000?
/

145 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:07:54am

re: #131 jcm

Co-worker is former arty officer, he did a couple tours in S. Korea, he says the Norks arty is a cast iron bitch to counter battery. A lot of it is on rails an rolls back into the mountain. The have programmed firing solutions, roll out fire a round and roll back in. By the time counter battery arrives they’ve rolled back in.

Personally, I’d say a chemical or biological weapon strike would be the safest bet. Dont go for the guns, go for the crews. Not that anyone would actually give the order to do this mind you.

146 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:08:04am

re: #123 Nevergiveup

Yankee afternoon game starting. I almost went out there today.

I heard they built the new stadium to be more conducive to home runs. True?

147 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:08:12am

re: #139 yma o hyd

True, and I don’t grudge him his readers.

I merely refuse to give him any more of my bread.

148 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:08:27am

re: #143 LGoPs

Why do we need to keep re-inventing the wheel. Sober critics acknowledge that Human Intelligence is critical to infiltrating groups like these terrorists we face. And Human Intelligence is exactly what Church’s committee started the process of disassembling. Technological surveillance is not a proper substitute. While it may be useful in identifying the number of ICBM systems a country like the Soviet Union had, it is useless in identifying the capabilities of people who live in caves. And much as we’d love to use nothing but pure as the driven snow assets to infiltrate these groups, nuns are in short supply and are no longer available to conduct this task.
/ Democrats/Liberals are dangerous to Your Health - Surgeon General’s Warning.

HUMINT, Richard ‘Demo Dick’ Marcinko approved. :)

149 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:08:51am

re: #137 CIA Reject

OK - It’s official: the CIA Witch Hunt has begun!

I wouldn’t stick my neck out one way or the other on that story. As we’ve seen a lot of these quotes are selective and/or out of context. I wouldn’t get too wound up about this one yet.

150 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:09:16am

re: #135 jcm

Do not get couriered away.

You guys are a bunch of wingdings with your incessant puns.

151 Truck Monkey  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:09:36am

Charles Johnson possesses great passion for this nation. More importantly, he is a fierce defender of every citizen of this country, irrespective of their beliefs. He may be brash, he may be confrontational and he may even be wrong sometimes but in the end, he is an enemy to none, save those who would trample those things we hold dear.

He even wears white after Labor Day!

The above passage, I think, most accurately describes Charles and those who dwell here. I have been around a long time and seen people come and go. Charles remains the constant. Anti-Idiotarian to the core. Congratulations.

152 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:09:58am

re: #149 Killgore Trout

I wouldn’t stick my neck out one way or the other on that story. As we’ve seen a lot of these quotes are selective and/or out of context. I wouldn’t get too wound up about this one yet.

Exactly. I will wait on the ‘yet’ and see which way it goes.

153 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:10:07am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Personally, I’d say a chemical or biological weapon strike would be the safest bet. Dont go for the guns, go for the crews. Not that anyone would actually give the order to do this mind you.

NorKo is a very ugly nut. Any way that one crumbles, implode or explode, it’s going be the bloodiest event since WWII.

154 gmsc  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:10:07am

OT: Today is Bettie Page’s first birthday since she passed away.

155 yma o hyd  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:10:26am

re: #147 Dianna

True, and I don’t grudge him his readers.

I merely refuse to give him any more of my bread.

Yep, agree - giving him bread for one book is quite sufficient for me as well, especially as the space on the bookshelves in the house is somewhat limited.

156 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:11:01am

re: #131 jcm

Co-worker is former arty officer, he did a couple tours in S. Korea, he says the Norks arty is a cast iron bitch to counter battery. A lot of it is on rails an rolls back into the mountain. The have programmed firing solutions, roll out fire a round and roll back in. By the time counter battery arrives they’ve rolled back in.

Isn’t the rail destroyed? Or the tunnel they rolled out of? That would still count as effective counter-battery, wouldn’t it?

157 johnnyreb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:11:02am

re: #126 Son of the Black Dog

That damned Yankee rifle that you loaded on Sunday and fired all week.

I think that was the Henry rifle. 7 round capacity.

158 Land Shark  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:12:05am

Oh, how I wished Charles had been wrong when he started pointing out the questionable relationships of many in the Anti-jihad blogosphere. But subsequent events have confirmed his concerns are legitimate.

I don’t consider them neo-nazis, however. As a student of history, that’s an accusation I don’t throw around lightly like the left does. But by not distancing themselves from these questionable groups, they have left themselves open to the accusation. Spencer, for example, is a scholar on Islam. I’ve been able to confirm what his books say from independent sources, including Muslim sources, so to me his scholarship is solid. But by not distancing himself from these groups and then attacking Charles for pointing out their past he risks his credibility and the real message of Islam’s intolerance for anything non-Muslim.

159 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:12:14am

re: #140 Zimriel

I suspect Van der Galien suspects that much. He’s sending a warning to RS McCain (and Donald Douglas, I suppose, but hadn’t read him).

Donald Douglas has also been posting really nasty attacks against me, by the way.

160 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:12:28am

re: #149 Killgore Trout

I wouldn’t stick my neck out one way or the other on that story. As we’ve seen a lot of these quotes are selective and/or out of context. I wouldn’t get too wound up about this one yet.

Sad fact of the matter is that a statement like this is all that’s required to cow a large part of the community. Whether or not Holder follows through is immaterial- the threat is sufficient.

161 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:13:01am

re: #156 Kenneth

Isn’t the rail destroyed? Or the tunnel they rolled out of? That would still count as effective counter-battery, wouldn’t it?

Depends on a number of factors, angle of the blast need to collapse the tunnel, length of the rail from the tunnel entrance, accuracy of the counterbattery, etc

162 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:13:16am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Personally, I’d say a chemical or biological weapon strike would be the safest bet. Dont go for the guns, go for the crews. Not that anyone would actually give the order to do this mind you.

Loitering UAV’s with bigger missiles than they currently have.
The artillery pops out, we blast it.
However, that would take some big bombs or a lot of UAVs to get all of them.

163 Big Steve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:13:56am

I will admit to possibly being wrong on this…… I like this site and the stances Charles takes. However I find it, I don’t know, maybe “beneath” this site, to point out other blogs that are agreeing. I equally don’t think it is worth the time to like to or point out sites that are taking a personal dissagreement as well.

Having said this, I willingly agree that maybe I just don’t understand all the rules of the blogosphere yet. So the slightest puff may cause me to fold my tent on this.

164 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:14:10am

re: #162 Kosh’s Shadow

Loitering UAV’s with bigger missiles than they currently have.
The artillery pops out, we blast it.
However, that would take some big bombs or a lot of UAVs to get all of them.

Or several flights of B-52s B-1s and B-2s with conventional loads.

165 JacksonTn  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:14:25am

re: #160 CIA Reject

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

we have talked about this before …

166 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:14:25am

re: #162 Kosh’s Shadow

Loitering UAV’s with bigger missiles than they currently have.
The artillery pops out, we blast it.
However, that would take some big bombs or a lot of UAVs to get all of them.

And the Nork would freak at the first sign we were moving anything like that into position.

167 calcajun  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:14:51am

re: #71 Sharmuta

Been saying that for days. But, it takes a leader to make them do it—and the GOP is missing one.

168 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:15:06am

re: #164 ConservatismNow!

Or several flights of B-52s B-1s and B-2s with conventional loads.

And every battery you dont hit is dropping everything they can on Seoul the whole time.

169 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:15:36am

*Pokes head up, readjusts rain hat*
No more ‘splody heads?

This isn’t really that hard. It’s the difference between hating misogyny, child abuse, terrorism, and a culture of death, and hating people. I cannot help but believe that the Arab world could be a place of justice and life, but not until they get rid of certain ideas, and embrace other ideas, like the idea that women are equal to men.

No, I have no magic wand to do this, I’m just stating how I feel.

*Repositions umbrella in case of more brains flying from exploding heads*

170 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:16:16am

re: #156 Kenneth

Isn’t the rail destroyed? Or the tunnel they rolled out of? That would still count as effective counter-battery, wouldn’t it?

They fire from just inside, unless the round makes a direct hit on the tunnel entrance, then they drill for rapid repairs. Until the tube is destroyed they’ll re-crew it or dig it out.

171 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:16:26am

re: #168 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And every battery you dont hit is dropping everything they can on Seoul the whole time.

Here’s the question: What is considered an acceptable loss in terms of collateral damage?

172 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:16:43am

re: #153 jcm

NorKo is a very ugly nut. Any way that one crumbles, implode or explode, it’s going be the bloodiest event since WWII.

Updinged not because I relish the thought but because I fear you’re right…

173 johnnyreb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:16:48am

re: #160 CIA Reject

Sad fact of the matter is that a statement like this is all that’s required to cow a large part of the community. Whether or not Holder follows through is immaterial- the threat is sufficient.

The threat has already done it’s damage. Lower and Mid level personnel in all forms of government that give “opinions” on pretty much anything that deals with the military, national security or operations in any way have been put on notice. They will no longer give honest opinions to their chain of command. You don’t have to actually prosecute or sue someone, just the potential threat of the US AG coming after you for something you wrote is enough to stifle open and honest advising.

If this actually happens only SCOTUS can shut it down.

174 ducktrapper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:17:24am

I recently banned myself from Small Dead Animals after “the unfairly banned” started griping there about LGF. Heck, all they want is to have a fair debate on intelligent design, cheer for the neo nazis and be able to disseminate any BS at all and, of course, to call Charles Johnson, “Chuckie” and inform him how wrong he is and make him like it. After some debate, I realized they were, on the whole, Pro-Idiotarian. Alas.

175 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:17:41am

re: #158 Land Shark

Robert, Dymphna, and Bodissey are fascist sympathizers. They agree with the aims of the Eurofascists such as the British National Party, Le Pen’s National Front, and the Vlaams Belang. They actively promote these groups on their sites as allies in the anti-jihad. They post drivel from racists such as Fjordman and Lionheart, and refuse to see that which they are doing has no place in decent society.

176 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:18:05am

re: #160 CIA Reject

Sad fact of the matter is that a statement like this is all that’s required to cow a large part of the community. Whether or not Holder follows through is immaterial- the threat is sufficient.

Does Obama even know what he said? It seemed to take everyone by surprise, including his own press secretary, who by the way is incompetent. Someone said yesterday that Robert Gibbs makes Scott McClellan look like Tony Snow.

177 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:18:45am

re: #96 Desert Dog

ELITE must mean something else in Arabic and Farsi…..inept? crappy? sub-par? weak?

“not surrendering to unmanned drones”?

178 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:18:46am

re: #171 ConservatismNow!

Here’s the question: What is considered an acceptable loss in terms of collateral damage?

Depends on how much of Seoul you’re will to accept as destroyed.

With a population of over 10 million, it is one of the world’s largest cities.[1] The Seoul National Capital Area - which includes the major port city of Incheon and satellite towns in Gyeonggi-do, has 24.5 million inhabitants[2] and is the world’s second largest metropolitan area.[3] Almost half of South Korea’s population live in the Seoul National Capital Area, and nearly a quarter in Seoul itself, making it the country’s chief economic, political and cultural center. As a Special City, Seoul is administered directly by the national government and is divided into 25 major districts.

179 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:18:56am

re: #160 CIA Reject

Sad fact of the matter is that a statement like this is all that’s required to cow a large part of the community. Whether or not Holder follows through is immaterial- the threat is sufficient.

Big agreement. People will adjust their behavior based on threats to their self interest, whether percieved or real.
Democrats are either ignorant of this basic fact or willfully blind to it. A similar dynamic occurs in government revenues as a result of tax policy. People do not behave statically. They will react to increased taxes and adjust their behavior accordingly and thus future revenue calculations are most often wrong.
BTW, I tend to believe that Democrats are willfully blind. They aren’t stupid.

180 bolivar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:19:11am

re: #17 redheadredstate

In this era of Republican bashing by the left we don’t need to give them any more ammo. Right Wing Hate Blogs should be shunned by all conservatives. There is no room for this kind of thing at this critical time. We do want to win in 2010 and 2012 don’t we?

Yeah we do however, killing our own will not help one little bit. The left is not - the “embrace” them and are thriving. The effort on both sides is not helping one little bit. Hate is wrong but so is wanting to do nothing constructive. obamanauts and wingnuts will be the death of us all and if not reigned in will result in our mutual destruction.

/nuff said

181 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:19:40am
182 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:19:44am

Moonbats to the left of me
Skinheads on the right
here I am - stuck in the middle with Chuck*

*Alliteration calls, sorry.

183 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:20:34am

re: #163 Big Steve

Charles has to defend himself from the attacks of nuts like Pamela. It is good to see articles like this because it backs up our position. If he did not defend himself, the slanders that GoV, AS, and some of the legion of the banned have thrown about the internet would stand.

184 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:20:35am
185 yesandno  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:20:43am

re: #122 jwb7605

I am a classical liberal (of the enlightenment),

Problem is, his ‘enLIGHTenment’ is at least one bulb short of being able to see anything clearly.

186 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:20:57am

re: #181 buzzsawmonkey
You could do this all day! Bravo.

187 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:21:27am

re: #163 Big Steve

I will admit to possibly being wrong on this…… I like this site and the stances Charles takes. However I find it, I don’t know, maybe “beneath” this site, to point out other blogs that are agreeing. I equally don’t think it is worth the time to like to or point out sites that are taking a personal dissagreement as well.

Having said this, I willingly agree that maybe I just don’t understand all the rules of the blogosphere yet. So the slightest puff may cause me to fold my tent on this.

Let me know when you start your own blog, so I can come over and post comments telling you what you should and shouldn’t post about.

188 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:21:29am

re: #163 Big Steve

I will admit to possibly being wrong on this…… I like this site and the stances Charles takes. However I find it, I don’t know, maybe “beneath” this site, to point out other blogs that are agreeing. I equally don’t think it is worth the time to like to or point out sites that are taking a personal dissagreement as well.

Having said this, I willingly agree that maybe I just don’t understand all the rules of the blogosphere yet. So the slightest puff may cause me to fold my tent on this.

President Bush took that rode and pissed me off beyond all belief by not taking a lead or throwing his supporters any type of ‘bone’. I can do fine as my own army of ‘one’ but at times its nice to have a ‘leader’ who would be ‘vocal’ who would defend his positions.

This isn’t ‘religion’ to take a ‘moral highground’ on. And lack of communication and defending our position intelligently is what got us in this mess in the first place. Practice makes perfect, the more we practice, though we screw up the message at times, the better we will get in the arena of ideas and be able to attack. If you don’t engage the vermin will try to smother you. In my opinion.

I understand that ‘actions’ speak louder than words, but the ‘stare down’ or the ‘primordial scream’ at the end of a hard dunk just adds that extra..something. The day of ‘silent leaders’ / ‘silent heroes’ in my book is over. I want not only to kick ass, but I want to swagger, brag, piss off, and get in your face over it. Let the chips land where they lie.

189 Van Helsing  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:21:50am

Just in case there are memory problems…
We The People…

190 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:22:43am

It’s interesting that SC&A still has GoV on its blogroll.

191 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:22:46am

re: #189 Van Helsing

Just in case there are memory problems…
We The People…

That’s not gonna help.

/bad linkie

192 bolivar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:22:54am

re: #189 Van Helsing

uh this goes nowhere

193 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:23:03am

re: #178 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think 25% collateral damage is a reasonable goal based on the nature of the threat. I have two things I would factor into any decision to invade NorK: The speed of invading forces and the morale of the enemy. I have to assume that NorK morale will take a serious hit if we are able to strike swiftly and decisively by taking out most of these batteries within a few hours of invasion.

194 MJ  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:23:23am

Until this post, I had no idea who RS McCain is, Takimag, or Donald Douglas.
I still don’t know who they are though I suspect Taki is that antisemite Taki Theodoracopulos.

You can tell a lot by the kind of man someone is by his enemies and Charles has some real haters who don’t like him.

195 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:23:27am

re: #173 johnnyreb

The threat has already done it’s damage. Lower and Mid level personnel in all forms of government that give “opinions” on pretty much anything that deals with the military, national security or operations in any way have been put on notice. They will no longer give honest opinions to their chain of command. You don’t have to actually prosecute or sue someone, just the potential threat of the US AG coming after you for something you wrote is enough to stifle open and honest advising.

If this actually happens only SCOTUS can shut it down.

That analysis is so dead on and so filled with common sense that liberals will immediately identify you as a reactionary, right wing extermist, running dog lackey. You are fucked.
/ Just kidding about the last part. I couldn’t agree with you more.
:)

196 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:23:46am

re: #155 yma o hyd

Speaking of books - I’m about done with the rewrite.

197 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:24:11am

re: #190 Ward Cleaver

It’s interesting that SC&A still has GoV on its blogroll.

People don’t always clean out their blogrolls as they should. I haven’t, but then again I only post articles every now and then. I should clean it out one of these days.

198 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:24:48am

re: #16 CIA Reject

AQ must be laughing their butts off. The farther we get from 9/11 the more things return to 9/10. If you’ve read Ghost Wars you know what I mean.

199 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:25:07am

re: #172 Zimriel

Updinged not because I relish the thought but because I fear you’re right…

I don’t relish anything with the Norks. Kim is ill, and when he goes who know WTF will happen, Kim could lash out just to consolidate power. The aftermath will be an unprecedented humanitarian crisis 25 million in the North who’ll need everything, and will have a hard time makimg do on their own.

Sadly I don’t think if, just when.

200 yma o hyd  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:25:21am

re: #196 Dianna

Speaking of books - I’m about done with the rewrite.

Excellent - looking forward to it!

201 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:25:35am

re: #195 LGoPs

That analysis is so dead on and so filled with common sense that liberals will immediately identify you as a reactionary, right wing extermist, running dog lackey. You are fucked.
/ Just kidding about the last part. I couldn’t agree with you more.
:)

yes…fear the feds and toss away principle…spit
don’t be so sure about it

202 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:25:50am

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And the Nork would freak at the first sign we were moving anything like that into position.

UAVs are easier to hide than bombers; they could be considered recon aircraft, which is why I suggested that instead of having B-52’s orbit in the area.

203 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:26:02am

re: #163 Big Steve

I will admit to possibly being wrong on this…… I like this site and the stances Charles takes. However I find it, I don’t know, maybe “beneath” this site, to point out other blogs that are agreeing. I equally don’t think it is worth the time to like to or point out sites that are taking a personal dissagreement as well.

Having said this, I willingly agree that maybe I just don’t understand all the rules of the blogosphere yet. So the slightest puff may cause me to fold my tent on this.

As Burke once said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Those fighting the new fascists MUST speak out and stand up.

204 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:26:24am

re: #199 jcm

I don’t relish anything with the Norks. Kim is ill, and when he goes who know WTF will happen, Kim could lash out just to consolidate power. The aftermath will be an unprecedented humanitarian crisis 25 million in the North who’ll need everything, and will have a hard time makimg do on their own.

Sadly I don’t think if, just when.

Worse, they will have no idea how to act for themselves, having been thoroughly trained not to try to show any initiative.

205 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:26:33am

Egypt launches anti-face veil campaign in govt

Anti-niqab campaign latest effort to erradicate the full-face veil

Egypt’s Ministry of Religious Endowments has launched a campaign against wearing the full face veil known as a niqab in government jobs claiming it is not an obligation for Muslims.

The latest crackdown on the niqab follows a prohibition against nurses wearing the full face veil in hospitals.

In the first in a series of seminars aimed at eradicating the niqab from public posts held under the auspices of the Ministry of religious endowments Dr. Salem Abdel-Gelil, Deputy Minister of Religious Endowments for Preaching, explained to the ministry’s face-veiled female employees that niqab is not an obligation in Islam and that the headscarf is enough.

ISLAMOPHOBIA.

206 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:27:47am

re: #183 Honorary Yooper

Charles has to defend himself from the attacks of nuts like Pamela. It is good to see articles like this because it backs up our position. If he did not defend himself, the slanders that GoV, AS, and some of the legion of the banned have thrown about the internet would stand.

I don’t think there’s anyone else on the right side of the blogosphere that brings out the haters faster than Charles. Allahpundit is probably second though.

207 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:28:06am

OT, but that “teen pirate” was pretty brazen when boarding the ship.

Prosecutors say Abdiwali Abdiqadir Muse was not shy about making his presence known on the Maersk Alabama, brazenly tearing through the ship in a way that belied his young age and skinny, 5-foot-2 frame.

He was the first to board the ship, fired a shot at the captain, helped steal $30,000 in cash from a safe, and bragged about hijacking ships in the past, authorities said.


He needs to be keelhauled under very large ship.

208 yma o hyd  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:28:08am

re: #203 MandyManners

As Burke once said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Those fighting the new fascists MUST speak out and stand up.

Well said, Mandy!
Keeping quiet about new fascism, or looking away because it might be embarrassing only enables them to spew more of their filth.

209 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:28:22am

re: #205 Ben Hur

Egypt’s Ministry of Religious Endowments

Must be a small operation.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!

(sorry)

210 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:28:22am

re: #201 albusteve

yes…fear the feds and toss away principle…spit
don’t be so sure about it

There will certainly be people in the intelligence community that continue to cooperate despite the threat of an unfriendly administration, however the best and brightest talent may very well avoid the more controversial programs and assignments. Lets put it this way, the commander in chiefs actions are not going to encourage better intelligence decisions.

Carter put a very effective muzzle on his advisors when they presented him with information that didn’t fit his world view.

211 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:28:33am

re: #196 Dianna

Speaking of books - I’m about done with the rewrite.

EXCELLENT! CAN’T WAIT!

212 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:29:00am

re: #194 MJ

Until this post, I had no idea who RS McCain is, Takimag, or Donald Douglas.
I still don’t know who they are though I suspect Taki is that antisemite Taki Theodoracopulos.

You can tell a lot by the kind of man someone is by his enemies and Charles has some real haters who don’t like him.

Yes, Takimag is run by Taki Theodoracopulos. And it really is disgusting.

213 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:29:13am

re: #158 Land Shark

I don’t consider them neo-nazis, however. As a student of history, that’s an accusation I don’t throw around lightly like the left does. But by not distancing themselves from these questionable groups, they have left themselves open to the accusation. Spencer, for example, is a scholar on Islam. I’ve been able to confirm what his books say from independent sources, including Muslim sources, so to me his scholarship is solid. But by not distancing himself from these groups and then attacking Charles for pointing out their past he risks his credibility and the real message of Islam’s intolerance for anything non-Muslim.

Politics corrupts the unwary. It pays to be dispassionate when doing scholarship.

Amazon sports an unfavourable review against a translation of Shaybani’s book on jihad law (the “Siyar”). It was all about how Shaybani was so awful for agreeing with jihad. But, the book was an accurate translation! It’s not the place of a reviewer of a translation to rant against the original source. At any rate even Shaybani himself accurately laid out an ethical interpretation of the Islamic source material available to him. If the reviewer had lied about Shaybani’s original words or botched the job; then sure, rant away. So that review was laughable, and all because someone was blinded by his ideology.

214 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:29:21am

re: #193 ConservatismNow!

I think 25% collateral damage is a reasonable goal based on the nature of the threat. I have two things I would factor into any decision to invade NorK: The speed of invading forces and the morale of the enemy. I have to assume that NorK morale will take a serious hit if we are able to strike swiftly and decisively by taking out most of these batteries within a few hours of invasion.

25% works out to 6.25 million civilian casualties.

215 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:30:28am

re: #206 Sharmuta

I don’t think there’s anyone else on the right side of the blogosphere that brings out the haters faster than Charles. Allahpundit is probably second though.

Yeah, they also really hate Allahpundit now. I don’t know if he can ban the nuts from Hot Air.

I go over to the haters’ sites just to see what their reactions are. So far, some of the have gone ballistic over this issue. I am sad to see that some of them who were decent commentors over here decided to go along with the haters instead of actually looking at the facts.

216 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:30:33am

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano blames Canada

Border comments spark diplomatic kerfuffle

Ottawa was rushing to defend its border security on Tuesday amid a diplomatic scuffle with the U.S., which erupted after Washington’s homeland security chief suggested that the 9-11 terrorists entered the U.S. through Canada.

U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano made the comments during a media interview earlier this week, much to the chagrin of Canadians on both sides of the border.

Ijit!

217 acwgusa  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:30:37am

Yeah, well, Fuck you, Timmy.

Geithner: U.S. bears ‘substantial’ blame for economic crisis

I think its you and your boss that need blaming, idiot.

218 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:30:52am

re: #211 debutaunt

I’ve written a couple more intimate scenes, too.

219 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:31:11am

Actually- I bet if there was an LGF thread about Allahpundit, it would be mostly supportive of him.

On the other hand, if Allahpundit put up a CJ thread at hot air, it would turn hater.

That’s what sets Lizards apart.

220 razorbacker  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:31:17am

Today is Earth Day. No-one is commenting about Earth Day here, so of course the only conclusion that can reasonably be reached is that you guys just don’t care about Mother Gaia.

Shame on you. Shame.

One measure of genius is the ability to recognize a brilliant idea when one is presented. Like this one…

Dinosaur soft.

I have a great idea. What we do is we genetically resurrect velociraptors.

Yeah, I know. They’re too small to put rocket launchers on, but that’s not the purpose here. There are a lot of misconceptions about velociraptors because of the Jurassic Park movies. First off, they’re smaller that they were depicted. Second, scientists are quite certain they had feathers and thus looked something like this.

You see where I’m going with this, don’t you?

We pluck the feathers and we make pillows.

Awesome idea, huh? What kid would not want a velociraptor feather pillow? We could charge like fifty bucks each and the parents would have to buy them because their snot-nosed kids would be like, “I can’t get to sleep unless it’s on a velociraptor! Waaaah!”

It’s a million dollar idea.

Yeah, I know, won’t the velociraptors get really angry if we pull off their feathers? That’s why we have cheap Mexican labor do it. Three dollars an hour to pull feathers off of dinosaurs; they can’t make that kind of money in Mexico.

So, I think that covers everything. Just need to figure out how to resurrect velociraptors for commercial purposes. If you have any ideas, please send them my way. You’ll get a free pillow.

Man, I don’t see how anyone could possibly argue with that right there.

221 bolivar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:31:19am

re: #207 Kosh’s Shadow

OT, but that “teen pirate” was pretty brazen when boarding the ship.


He needs to be keelhauled under very large ship.

OOOOOH! you are a tough one. Keelhaul might be kind compared to some things I have heard. I would like to have seen him shot and dumped at sea but, of course with our “moral” government why that would just be - uncivilized. Of course now this will be de riguer (sp) and everybody will want to come here for the attention. I loved the initial face on this jerk and then he was all tears and contrition. Fuck him - he gave up any right to civility when he boarded that ship.

222 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:31:25am

re: #210 DaddyG

There will certainly be people in the intelligence community that continue to cooperate despite the threat of an unfriendly administration, however the best and brightest talent may very well avoid the more controversial programs and assignments. Lets put it this way, the commander in chiefs actions are not going to encourage better intelligence decisions.

Carter put a very effective muzzle on his advisors when they presented him with information that didn’t fit his world view.

maybe so, but it has to start somewhere and with only one person…the President is the servant of the people…no guts no glory

223 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:32:20am

re: #214 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

25% works out to 6.25 million civilian casualties.

I meant actual structural damage, not civilian casualties. Not even 10% civilian casualties is worth it.

224 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:32:30am

re: #218 Dianna

I’ve written a couple more intimate scenes, too.

Autobiographical?

*whack* - saving Mandy the trouble.

225 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:32:52am

re: #217 acwgusa

Yeah, well, Fuck you, Timmy.

Geithner: U.S. bears ‘substantial’ blame for economic crisis

I think its you and your boss that need blaming, idiot.

Let’s not forget Paulson, all of Congress (only a few honorable exceptions), and various pundits.

Let’s single out Chris Dodd and Barney Frank for particular infamy, while we’re at it.

226 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:33:01am

re: #205 Ben Hur

Egypt launches anti-face veil campaign in govt

Anti-niqab campaign latest effort to erradicate the full-face veil


ISLAMOPHOBIA.

I like the use of the word erradicate.

227 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:33:08am

re: #218 Dianna

I’ve written a couple more intimate scenes, too.

hahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahhaahahahaa

228 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:33:14am

re: #224 DaddyG

Autobiographical?

*whack* - saving Mandy the trouble.

In one case, I wish!

229 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:33:18am
230 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:33:29am

re: #193 ConservatismNow!

I think 25% collateral damage is a reasonable goal based on the nature of the threat. I have two things I would factor into any decision to invade NorK: The speed of invading forces and the morale of the enemy. I have to assume that NorK morale will take a serious hit if we are able to strike swiftly and decisively by taking out most of these batteries within a few hours of invasion.

Only option to do that will be tactical nuclear response. 13,000 tubes, almost all dug in, 13,000 direct hits with conventional munitions, and then a percentage will be back in service after a period of time require re-strikes.

231 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:33:54am

re: #223 ConservatismNow!

I meant actual structural damage, not civilian casualties. Not even 10% civilian casualties is worth it.

I only consider collateral damage in terms of civilians casualties. Anything else can be rebuilt.

232 quickjustice  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:34:39am

Keep peddling uphill, Charles!

233 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:34:39am

re: #228 Dianna

In one case, I wish!

Did it just get warmer in here. Why am I so flushed?

I should have known better to go down that road with a female lizard. There is no way that could have ended well for me.

;-)

234 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:35:35am

re: #230 jcm

Only option to do that will be tactical nuclear response. 13,000 tubes, almost all dug in, 13,000 direct hits with conventional munitions, and then a percentage will be back in service after a period of time require re-strikes.

relieve the shooters of command and control….James Bond style or whatever….brute force will lead to ridiculous casualties…there has to be another way

235 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:35:48am

re: #230 jcm

Only option to do that will be tactical nuclear response. 13,000 tubes, almost all dug in, 13,000 direct hits with conventional munitions, and then a percentage will be back in service after a period of time require re-strikes.

Or a persistent chemical/biological agent. Force them to stay buttoned up and/or wipe out the crews

236 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:36:04am

Speaking of re-write, I need to return to it.

237 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:36:30am

re: #235 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or a persistent chemical/biological agent. Force them to stay buttoned up and/or wipe out the crews

But the US doesn’t use biochem

238 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:36:41am

re: #236 Dianna

Speaking of re-write, I need to return to it.

Hurry!

239 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:36:46am

re: #219 Sharmuta

Actually- I bet if there was an LGF thread about Allahpundit, it would be mostly supportive of him.

On the other hand, if Allahpundit put up a CJ thread at hot air, it would turn hater.

That’s what sets Lizards apart.

I’d have to question AP’s post about Simcox yesterday.

240 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:37:07am

re: #234 albusteve

relieve the shooters of command and control….James Bond style or whatever….brute force will lead to ridiculous casualties…there has to be another way

We’ll get SEAL teams 1 thru 13,000 on it right away

/

241 JohnnyReb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:37:39am

re: #195 LGoPs

That analysis is so dead on and so filled with common sense that liberals will immediately identify you as a reactionary, right wing extermist, running dog lackey. You are fucked.
/ Just kidding about the last part. I couldn’t agree with you more.
:)

I just don’t know why the heck Obama’s and his administration can be making so many friggin mistakes. I mean they have nearly all of Clinton’s cabinet back and his guys were pretty sharp politically.

Obama just keeps on making rookie mistakes and I seriously don’t think anyone in his administration has a clue about telling him to keep it simple or keep his mouth shut.

242 Gordon Marock  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:37:41am

Charles, keep up the good fight. I must admit that I visit Jihad Watch daily simply for information, which is generally good. However, Spencer’s bullshit pussy posts about LGF are almost too much to stomach. Hopefully, some of these folks will come to their senses.

243 jwb7605  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:37:45am

re: #229 Iron Fist

These are some of the targets Bush had in mind when he proposed the “micronukes” project. If we had started then (2001 or early 2002, IIRC), we would have them now when we are facing a heavily fortified enemy hiding in deep bunkers.

Of course, even the Republicans basically shit their pants at the idea, and so we don’t have any tactical nuclear bunkerbusters.

Go team! But at least we didn’t put panties on their heads…

This whole NoKo discussion keeps bringing up recollections of your post yesterday regarding what kind of atrocities we are/would be willing to tolerate and/or commit to win a war. It was a good food-for-thought comment.

I’m in your corner on the issue.

244 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:38:14am

There is hope. Though the support should have come long ago, that it comes at all is a good sign.

Sometimes I think Charles and LGF are so ahead of the curve that it takes months for others to catch up.

245 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:38:26am

re: #240 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We’ll get SEAL teams 1 thru 13,000 on it right away

/

SEAL teams are the only way to remove command and control? C’mon you know better than that. Even ECM would remove C&C from play

246 Van Helsing  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:38:31am

I hate it when I do that.

Well, that takes the impact out of it.
Try the one above.

247 yesandno  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:38:33am

If you are a Liberal or a Dem, you can be an individual, carry any personal idea, and never be charged with dividing the party.

If you are a Conservative, it is assumed you are GOP and you must be part of group think or you are dividing the party.

As a result, when a right wing nuts speaks some hate, it can then be assigned to everyone who calls themselves Conservative.

The importance of defining ourselves rather then being defined by others is so important. The discussions need to be had and we need to point out things that don’t define us.

248 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:38:52am

re: #240 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We’ll get SEAL teams 1 thru 13,000 on it right away

/

better ramp up production of cammo paste

249 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:39:13am

re: #241 JohnnyReb

I just don’t know why the heck Obama’s and his administration can be making so many friggin mistakes. I mean they have nearly all of Clinton’s cabinet back and his guys were pretty sharp politically.

Obama just keeps on making rookie mistakes and I seriously don’t think anyone in his administration has a clue about telling him to keep it simple or keep his mouth shut.

He is in way over his head. Notice we haven’t heard much from Michelle lately?

250 Big Steve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:39:24am

Regarding responses to my post #163… tent officially folded.

You all have changed my mind. Maybe shining the light on the idiotic means not only exposing them but garnering support as well. To the person who mentioned that one just can’t be successful being Gary Cooper in “High Noon”…..the strong silent go it alone type in this world, well you are right about that.

To Charles…..you have the best blog in the universe. If I did start my own blog I would be honored to have you tell me what to post or what not to post. I don’t feel the need to start one because you do a much better job than I ever could.

251 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:39:27am

Sec-Def to announce creation of new Cyber Command!

Calling all patriotic computer geeks!

252 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:39:44am
253 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:39:44am

re: #249 KenJen

He is in way over his head. Notice we haven’t heard much from Michelle lately?

She’s out weeding the garden. /

254 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:39:46am

re: #237 ConservatismNow!

But the US doesn’t use biochem

We havent used tactical nukes either. We do have chemical and biological weapon, but we dont use them due to international treaties.

255 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:40:11am

re: #234 albusteve

relieve the shooters of command and control….James Bond style or whatever….brute force will lead to ridiculous casualties…there has to be another way

C3 would have to be removed before the Norks start shooting. Then do local commanders have standing go orders if a decap strike is launched?

Unless someone on the North takes out Kim, establishes power, then acts sane with regards to the rest of world, brute force is, unfortunately, the most likely scenario.

The situation with the Norks is beyond ugly, it’s truly horrifying.

256 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:40:29am

“To conservative bloggers like RSM and DD “

Not familiar with RSM & DD - who are they?

257 MJ  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:40:29am

The parallel with the lunatics is not Sept. 10, 2001 but rather the early 1930’s.
You have figures running around, with a great deal of influence in some cases, who are very reminiscent of the Old Right:
Charles E. Coughlin,
The Christian Front,
Gerald. L. K. Smith
Benjamin Freedman,
William Dudley Pelly
Gerald Winrod
Francis E. Townsend
Etc.

258 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:40:37am

re: #239 wrenchwench

I’d have to question AP’s post about Simcox yesterday.

Well- honest questions are different. I can’t imagine you going hater on AP, or anyone else for that matter, like the stalkers do with LGF.

259 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:40:38am
260 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:41:13am

re: #250 Big Steve

Oh, hey, FYI, I wasn’t directing that directly at you, just my ‘miffedness’ with weak / silent leader types in general and my personal fantasy of what I look for in leaders…heh…

261 badger1970  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:41:39am

re: #252 lefty201

That was a curse.

262 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:41:49am

re: #221 bolivar

OOOOOH! you are a tough one. Keelhaul might be kind compared to some things I have heard. I would like to have seen him shot and dumped at sea but, of course with our “moral” government why that would just be - uncivilized. Of course now this will be de riguer (sp) and everybody will want to come here for the attention. I loved the initial face on this jerk and then he was all tears and contrition. Fuck him - he gave up any right to civility when he boarded that ship.

I was going to take a very loooong time to keelhaul him. A very long time.
Then drop his body into a pirate village.

263 razorbacker  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:42:06am

re: #243 jwb7605

This whole NoKo discussion keeps bringing up recollections of your post yesterday regarding what kind of atrocities we are/would be willing to tolerate and/or commit to win a war. It was a good food-for-thought comment.

I’m in your corner on the issue.

*Tsk, tsk.*

So violent. So intolerant.

I stand by my reasonable suggestion that we simply built wall-to-wall restaurants across the North Korean/South Korean border. Then, when the North Korean armies are done with what may well be the first big satisfying meal of their lives, they aren’t going to be interested in invasion.

They’re going to be interested in a nice, long nap with a comfy pillow. Be pretty easy to defeat a napping invader, I’d think.

264 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:42:09am
265 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:42:12am

F*ck the Earth Day (Language Warning)

266 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:43:25am

re: #253 DaddyG

She’s out weeding the garden. /

Bet she won’t be planting any bush beans.

267 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:43:44am

Who called #252? That was a pretty artful flounce, maybe a 7.4/10. Loses points for imagining that this was an anti-tea-party post and for imagining that there was “vitriol” aimed against him here.

268 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:43:56am
269 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:43:59am

re: #245 ConservatismNow!

SEAL teams are the only way to remove command and control? C’mon you know better than that. Even ECM would remove C&C from play

And if the standing order states that if communication is lost or a certain signal isn’t received hourly to open fire until out of ammo, what then?

270 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:44:09am

re: #262 Kosh’s Shadow

I was going to take a very loooong time to keelhaul him. A very long time.
Then drop his body into a pirate village.

Capt: Commence Keelhauling!
Bosun: HAUL AWAY!
Crew: Aye Aye! begins hauling….

Capt: Damn, look at the time.. LUNCH BREAK!

271 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:44:12am

re: #262 Kosh’s Shadow

I was going to take a very loooong time to keelhaul him. A very long time.
Then drop his body into a pirate village.

Just chain him to the Pirates of the Caribbean ride until he goes mad. He can be the guy in the barrel that gets dunked 1000 times a day. /

272 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:44:25am

re: #252 lefty201

Adios, although, I think you are an idiot for simply throwing away your account like that.

273 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:44:34am

re: #265 Ben Hur

F*ck the Earth Day (Language Warning)

I believe its Urf day, thank you very much

274 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:44:43am

re: #259 albusteve

[to #252]ENCORE! ENCORE!

Oops…

275 Rancher  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:45:15am

Charlie Johnson’s War heh.

276 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:45:24am

re: #170 jcm

Ok, but some percentage of the guns will be destroyed by counter-battery. Those guns and rail systems that survive, will require some amount of time to dig out. If they fire again, counter-battery again, and the chances of survival drop further. With spy-planes or satellites are watching overhead, we can see which sites survived, & you keep hitting them.

I’ve got to imagine army intelligence has nearly all the NoKo artillery sites logged & dialed already anyway. The solution need not be tactical nukes or anything more exotic than hard work and repeated application of HE.

277 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:45:49am
278 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:45:51am

There’s our first dramatic flounce-off of the day.

279 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:45:52am

re: #269 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And if the standing order states that if communication is lost or a certain signal isn’t received hourly to open fire until out of ammo, what then?

Send in the Marines

280 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:46:34am

Don’t quote dramatic flounce-off comments, please.

281 bolivar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:46:44am

re: #262 Kosh’s Shadow

That might actually work - lot better than doing nothing…….we cannot “talk” with these pirates - they understand only one thing and we all know what that is.

282 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:00am

re: #268 Spider Mensch

and the oscar goes to…the above for best supporting poster in a self martyrdom parody….

He’s a prize alright, a prize jackass for throwing away his account. Now he’ll run off to his buddies and bitch that he got martyred here.

283 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:01am

re: #255 jcm

C3 would have to be removed before the Norks start shooting. Then do local commanders have standing go orders if a decap strike is launched?

Unless someone on the North takes out Kim, establishes power, then acts sane with regards to the rest of world, brute force is, unfortunately, the most likely scenario.

The situation with the Norks is beyond ugly, it’s truly horrifying.

I have no doubt about that….there is little that can be done in the black that has any plausible chance of success but I would not be surprised if the South tried something, otherwise I would supprt the use of tac nukes myself….Norks inside the wire is totally unacceptable

284 wiffersnapper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:02am

Common sense seems to be lost to most right-wingers these days. That’s why I frequent LGF so I can be among other sane people. Thank you, Charles.

285 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:04am

Guys, the act of deleting stupid flameout posts is undercut when you quote THE WHOLE GORRAM POST in your response.

Please, just note the poster’s name, rank, and posting number and if you must, the briefest of quotations.

286 Van Helsing  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:24am

re: #279 ConservatismNow!

Send in the Marines

Haven’t followed the whole thread, but that’s generally a Good Thing.

287 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:28am

Should have hit ‘reply’ as opposed to ‘quote’.

My fault.

288 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:28am

That’s always one of my favorite tantrum lines. If you don’t want to post anymore don’t.

Bloggers provide forums for expression and you are free to use them within the rules of the owner or not.

Good grief.

289 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:47:47am

re: #273 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I believe its Urf day, thank you very much

Erf Day, co-founder by Ira Einhorn; murderer.

290 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:48:07am

re: #279 ConservatismNow!

Send in the Marines

Which bring us back to where we started

291 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:48:07am

re: #280 Charles

Don’t quote dramatic flounce-off comments, please.

Oops… Will this count against my Karma?

292 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:48:12am

re: #268 Spider Mensch

and the oscar goes to…the above for best supporting poster in a self martyrdom parody….

…I’d like to thank myself for just being me…

293 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:48:32am

re: #290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Which bring us back to where we started

Send in the…uh…Space Marines?

294 Spider Mensch  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:48:54am

re: #287 Oh no…Sand People!

Should have hit ‘reply’ as opposed to ‘quote’.

My fault.


me too
mea culpa!

296 razorbacker  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:49:14am

re: #281 bolivar

That might actually work - lot better than doing nothing…….we cannot “talk” with these pirates - they understand only one thing and we all know what that is.

Aye, matey. Pirates are interest in booty. Glorious booty. Great big heaps of booty.

Y’all will have to pardon me for a while. I find myself feeling a mite pirateish myself, all of a sudden.

297 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:49:26am

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Send in the…uh…Space Marines?

Please. The next thing you’ll see here is a Space Jesus.

298 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:49:35am

re: #274 Zimriel

Oops…

yes…I’m really bad at that…I’m like zero for 10

299 bolivar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:49:59am

re: #267 Zimriel

I have seen a lot of negativity here about the tea parties. Several think it a total waste of time (you know who you are) and some think these people are deluded and then the nuts begin to rear their ugly heads.

Every movement must start somewhere and the fact this started from comments of a CNBC reporter is very fitting. Anybody here have a problem with that?

/didn’t think so

300 Van Helsing  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:50:11am

I like kinetic weapons.

500lbs of anything that hits you 14,000 mph is gonna leave a mark.

301 badger1970  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:50:18am

Wouldn’t space marines be an oxy-moron as there is no H2o to navigate in space?

302 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:50:23am

re: #295 gmsc

Tax reciepts hit record low (BizzyBlog entry)

Uncle Sam’s Receipts Drying Up As Americans “Go John Galt”? (PJTV video)


[Video]

And since the Democrat big wigs do not pay them anyway…unless they get busted after being nominated for a cabinet position.

Makes me wonder how many there are with a (D) that aren’t nominated and are skirting the system.

303 Spider Mensch  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:50:56am

re: #292 KenJen

…I’d like to thank myself for just being me…


I remember an old quote from Herman Munster in a dream sequece where her gets the oscar… ” I’d like to thank all the little people…but I can’t…because I did it all myself! Thank You! “

304 ctrlL  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:51:07am

re: #128 yochanan

A.G. HOLDER states today that they will fellow the evidence were it leads. sure sounds like he is going to go after BUSHIES. or maybe a Cheney or two.

This situation is being played out in a way that sure smells of a THREAT, imho. I think that Dick Cheney is driving the narcissistic O into a frenzy. He is attempting to silence criticism and opposition.
/nice play for a commie

305 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:51:37am

re: #301 badger1970

Wouldn’t space marines be an oxy-moron as there is no H2o to navigate in space?

Billy Mays is an oxy-moron.

306 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:51:41am

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Send in the…uh…Space Marines?

Or The Alien Legion

307 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:52:07am

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Send in the…uh…Space Marines?

Actually, I’d say orbital lance strikes followed by drop pod assault would be one of the more effective ways to deal with this. I’d even say 2 companies, but thats just due to the terrain and since they couldn’t readily use bikes, land raiders or other armor.

We should get on that right away.

308 jcm  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:52:12am

re: #300 Van Helsing

I like kinetic weapons.

500lbs of anything that hits you 14,000 mph is gonna leave a mark.

Rods from God!

309 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:52:24am

re: #305 KenJen

Billy Mays is an oxy-moron.

he’s a good American higgler

310 JohnnyReb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:53:07am

re: #301 badger1970

Wouldn’t space marines be an oxy-moron as there is no H2o to navigate in space?

Don’t tell that to Games Workshop, they have made about 10 billion dollars from Space Marines.

311 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #306 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Or The Alien Legion

JUGGER GRIMROD WAS DA MAN ALIEN!

312 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:54:01am

re: #297 Honorary Yooper

Please. The next thing you’ll see here is a Space Jesus.

re: #301 badger1970

Wouldn’t space marines be an oxy-moron as there is no H2o to navigate in space?

Warhammer 40k reference

313 gmsc  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:54:24am

re: #302 Oh no…Sand People!

And since the Democrat big wigs do not pay them anyway…unless they get busted after being nominated for a cabinet position.

Makes me wonder how many there are with a (D) that aren’t nominated and are skirting the system.

Click the link, and you get the answer - 38.1%.
;)

314 KenJen  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:54:38am

re: #309 albusteve

he’s a good American higgler

Yeah. He sure makes me higgle.

315 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:54:43am

re: #307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, I’d say orbital lance strikes followed by drop pod assault would be one of the more effective ways to deal with this. I’d even say 2 companies, but thats just due to the terrain and since they couldn’t readily use bikes, land raiders or other armor.

We should get on that right away.

Well, Stephen Hawkings is working on Charles’s space laser right now since he’s healthy again.

316 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:55:13am

re: #314 KenJen

Yeah. He sure makes me higgle.

Is that anything like hurl?

317 3 wood  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:55:40am

re: #262 Kosh’s Shadow

I was going to take a very loooong time to keelhaul him. A very long time.
Then drop his body into a pirate village.

If you really want to be cruel, make him ride through It’s A Small World at Disney in Florida for a couple hours straight. He will be ready to hang himself after that experience.

318 JohnnyReb  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:55:41am

re: #315 ConservatismNow!

Well, Stephen Hawkings is working on Charles’s space laser right now since he’s healthy again.


You mean the Alan Parsons Project?

319 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:55:53am

re: #311 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

JUGGER GRIMROD WAS DA MAN ALIEN!

Dark Knight is going to relaunch the series, with Chuck Dixon, current writer of G.I. JOE & a good old-fashioned right-wing gun nut, as the writer. Can’t wait!

320 Irish Rose  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:55:54am

Great stuff, two thumbs up Charles!

I linked ‘em both.

321 Cygnus  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:55:59am

re: #246 Van Helsing

I hate it when I do that.

Well, that takes the impact out of it.
Try the one above.

We had to memorize that when I was in the 5th grade. I can still quote it verbatim. That was back in the good old days when they actually taught patriotism in the schools.

322 opnion  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:56:02am

re: #241 JohnnyReb

I just don’t know why the heck Obama’s and his administration can be making so many friggin mistakes. I mean they have nearly all of Clinton’s cabinet back and his guys were pretty sharp politically.

Obama just keeps on making rookie mistakes and I seriously don’t think anyone in his administration has a clue about telling him to keep it simple or keep his mouth shut.

Clinton ran as a Centerist candidate, even in the primaries.
Soros was not as powerful in Democrat politics at the time.
Obama ran as a decidedly Left candidate & the people who got behind him not expect things.

323 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:56:14am

re: #318 JohnnyReb

You mean the Alan Parsons Project?

Right. Preperation H. Preperations A-G failed.

324 Van Helsing  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:56:35am

re: #308 jcm

Rods from God!

Yep. Thor’s hammer and all.
Waiting for Fimblewinter…
I’ve got few plans for Fenris that the legends don’t take into account.

325 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:57:23am

re: #317 3 wood

If you really want to be cruel, make him ride through It’s A Small World at Disney in Florida for a couple hours straight. He will be ready to hang himself after that experience.

Disney will want to hire him for their POTC attraction.

326 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:57:29am

Is flaming Kimshee considered a biological weapon?

What we need is some guys like this:

We decided that nobody was here so let’s take a chance. I said, “Jack, you cover me and I’m going in there and destroy them.” So all I had was two thermite grenades — his and mine. I went in and put the thermite grenades in the traversing mechanism, and that knocked out two of them because that melted their gears in a moment. And then I broke their sights, and we ran back to the road, which was a hundred or so yards back, and got all the other thermites from the remainder of my guys manning the roadblock, and rushed back and put the grenades in traversing mechanisms, elevation mechanisms, and banged the sights. There was no noise to that. There is no noise to a thermite, so no one saw us…

327 Kragar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:57:36am

re: #319 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Dark Knight is going to relaunch the series, with Chuck Dixon, current writer of G.I. JOE & a good old-fashioned right-wing gun nut, as the writer. Can’t wait!

Sweet. Hope they keep Jugger in the series. He was a tough SOB

328 MikeAlv77  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:58:43am

re: #295 gmsc

Tax reciepts hit record low (BizzyBlog entry)

Uncle Sam’s Receipts Drying Up As Americans “Go John Galt”? (PJTV video)

You know the problem is that all these people not wanting to give the govt their money is they are just not very patriotic…
//

329 Van Helsing  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:59:22am

re: #321 Cygnus

It should be required since it defines (or used to) defines our country.
A country is not just physical borders.

330 gmsc  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:59:34am

re: #328 MikeAlv77

You know the problem is that all these people not wanting to give the govt their money is they are just not very patriotic…
//

But they’re dissenting, and I thought dissent was the highest form of patriotism!
//

331 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:59:34am
332 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:59:36am

re: #318 JohnnyReb

You mean the Alan Parsons Project?

The key to this project is the giant laser, which was invented by the noted Cambridge physicist, Dr. Parsons. So therefore, it is fitting to call it: “The Alan Parsons Project”.

333 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:59:37am

Agree with Michael van der Galien’s take, except for his assessment of Donald Douglas, who I think is a bigoted irrational tool.

334 Cygnus  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 10:59:58am

re: #271 DaddyG

Just chain him to the Pirates of the Caribbean ride until he goes mad. He can be the guy in the barrel that gets dunked 1000 times a day. /

The “It’s A Small World After All” ride would be far more effective…no wait, that would count as ‘torture’ and Obama says we can’t do that anymore.

335 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:00:15am

re: #317 3 wood

If you really want to be cruel, make him ride through It’s A Small World at Disney in Florida for a couple hours straight. He will be ready to hang himself after that experience.

Now that is torture!

336 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:01:43am

And I’ve got no love for RS McCain. This has nothing to do with the way they’ve treated Charles. I just don’t like him as a blogger and thinker.

337 3 wood  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:03:32am

OT:

Morgan Stanley did not have a good 1st quarter:

Morgan Stanley posts wider-than-expected loss

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Morgan Stanley reported Wednesday a first-quarter loss as results at almost all its business units worsened from year-ago levels and lagged those of rivals like Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase.
The company posted a loss of $190 million, or 57 cents a share, a reversal from the company’s profit of $1.41 billion, or $1.26 a share, generated in the first three months of 2008.
Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters had, on average, expected Morgan Stanley to lose 8 cents a share in the quarter.

338 Rancher  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:03:38am

re: #210 DaddyG

There will certainly be people in the intelligence community that continue to cooperate despite the threat of an unfriendly administration, however the best and brightest talent may very well avoid the more controversial programs and assignments. Lets put it this way, the commander in chiefs actions are not going to encourage better intelligence decisions.

Carter put a very effective muzzle on his advisors when they presented him with information that didn’t fit his world view.


No lawyer is going to approve anything stronger than begging for information. Good cop bad cop is even out of bounds now. Intelligence failures will lead to American deaths and Obama’s downfall but I don’t think he cares. He is very much an idealist.

339 bolivar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:04:04am

re: #328 MikeAlv77

I wouldn’t pay them a dime but, I have this aversion to bubba in the bunk above me wanting a bitch for the night. Prison bars and I are not good partners.

340 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:04:04am

re: #336 medaura18586

I don’t mean to say I am not affected by their seething against Charles. But I never liked them to begin with: both RS McCain and Donald Douglas.

341 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:04:28am

re: #313 gmsc

Click the link, and you get the answer - 38.1%.
;)

And the left looks at taxes as a religious sacrament. “WHAT!? You greed thieves! Think of the welfare druggies! How could you not help the unemployed! Social programs are going to get hurt.”

/nothing against those who are legitimately in a bad way and are using the programs correctly.

342 Cygnus  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:04:38am

re: #335 Kosh’s Shadow

Now that is torture!

GMTA!

343 3 wood  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:04:46am

re: #335 Kosh’s Shadow

Now that is torture!

I had to go through it with all 3 of my daughters.

Sober, no less.

344 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:05:11am

re: #334 Cygnus

The “It’s A Small World After All” ride would be far more effective…no wait, that would count as ‘torture’ and Obama says we can’t do that anymore.

I was on that ride with my family during a Tornado warning one time in Orlando. Since it was mostly underground they just let us ride it three times in a row without getting off. At least it wasn’t panties on our heads.

345 albusteve  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:12:29am

re: #316 CIA Reject

Is that anything like hurl?

higgler…poor Jamaican trying to sell you something

346 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:14:02am

But I didn’t know of RS McCain’s involvement with the League of the South or with Taki magazine. Gross! Glad to see how spot-on my BS-dar has been.

347 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:14:46am

The only way the Pelosi, Obama Reid scam can work is with the sanction of its victims.

-Paraphrased

348 Dianna  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:18:17am

re: #324 Van Helsing

Yep. Thor’s hammer and all.
Waiting for Fimblewinter…
I’ve got few plans for Fenris that the legends don’t take into account.

Um, “Fimbulwinter”, I believe. Though it’s been a while.

349 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:18:35am

re: #333 medaura18586

Agree with Michael van der Galien’s take, except for his assessment of Donald Douglas, who I think is a bigoted irrational tool.

Douglas makes apologetics for Vlaams BlokBelang (17 March this year) and constantly cites bigoted bloggers. He hasn’t started supporting BNP yet, but it’s a matter of time for him.

It’s always interesting to search the archives of a Pat Dollard or a Donald Douglas for certain keywords. Up to mid 2008 they excoriate Buchanan and Taki as fascists and “unpatriotic conservatives”. Then, abruptly, they start writing articles on Buchanan’s and Taki’s magazines.

350 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:20:19am

re: #346 medaura18586

But I didn’t know of RS McCain’s involvement with the League of the South or with Taki magazine. Gross! Glad to see how spot-on my BS-dar has been.

We’ve all learnt the hard way not to cross your ‘dar…

351 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:25:46am

The apologists for Eurofascism are showing up in the comments for Dave Weigel’s article, as well several shrieking banned LGF commenters:

[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

Note the comments from “Henrik Ræder Clausen,” especially. This guy has been working overtime behind the scenes to smear me, and has sent dozens of emails making vague threats about suing me for telling the truth about the Vlaams Belang.

352 konservo  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:26:10am

Unfortunately, Michael van der Galien is a staunch genocide denier, and he has spoken against Spencer in the past. Although Charles’ position does not need MvdG’s support… at all, I can see Geller and Spencer using the MvdG/Armenian Genocide Denial issue in a smear post.

Here’s what Michael has to say:

“Denying” Fake Genocide: 5 Years in Jail

The Armenian Question Answered - endorsed, but not authored, by MvdG

The Armenian Lobby

To be clear, I’m not implying that Charles or anyone at LGF shares MvdG’s views. And again, Charles’ position is not hurt at all by this, it’s a completely unrelated issue. I just think that MvdG is a creep, and he himself confirms that he denies the Armenian Genocide.

353 Cobdenite  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:27:22am

The blogosphere reflects only a tiny portion of the cultural currents in the nation, but I wonder if this “civil war” doesn’t reflect a future breakup in the Republican Party along the extremist/centrist lines. Lines established between those who choose to abandon all vestiges of reason by believing conspiracy theories in order to defend an ephemeral unity against Jihadists (I’m looking hard at Pam here, the supposedly rational Objectivist), and those who realize that the truth is important regardless of perceived political consequences (praising Obama for responding properly to piracy).

You can kind of see this breakup in the tendencies of Republican governors and Congressmen tending towards the hard right wing (whether fundamentalist or ODS), and their increasingly dissatisfied constituents. Between those Conservatives being drawn towards the empty theatrics of Rush and Beck, and those who are left essentially voiceless as they find that neither television, radio nor their state representatives reflect their saner views. Being in the wilderness had only intensified the underlying animosities within the various branches of the party, and I don’t really see a unifying voice being able to impose a universal re-invention on the party to re-align the extremists towards some kind national interest away from their own pet causes.

In some ways, each party has always claimed to be the party of truth. For the Democrats, the truth lay in the rational constructs drawn from a variety of older and newer sources. For “small c” conservative Republicans, the truth lay in an evolving tradition that had painfully tested certain ideas about human nature through the ages. But what we’re seeing is something entirely new. Each party has discarded it’s ideas about truth, and adopted some kind of smorgasbord of short-term advantages meant to fit a barely-defined political goal.

Obama’s fairly doctrinaire socialism is more traditional than the insane sleaze-mongering and attachment to political immediacy adopted by many Republicans. There is nothing traditional about open slander, stone-walling and grasping for the worst allies to possibly achieve some brief victory. This is not Conservatism. And the breakup will most likely happen between those who have embraced the “new” republicanism of emotional reflex and those who recognize the older definition conservatism as a philosophy of tested truths.

354 Hhar  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:33:42am

Very good. Great is the truth, and stronger than all things.

Or Patmore’s version:
“Magna est veritas et prævalebit”.

Sometimes translated as “The truth is great and it will prevail a bit”

355 yochanan  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:36:03am

re: #257 MJ

add the silver shirt thugs to this list

356 Cobdenite  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:38:12am

re: #352 konservo

I thought that the Armenian Genocide was still a bit of an open question. One of the most well-respected historians of the Middle East of the “old school”, Bernard Lewis, shied away from defining it as a Genocide (if only because it wasn’t explicit government policy unlike the Final Solution, for example).

My studies of history fall far away from the period and geographical location dealing with the Armenian Genocide, so I can’t make any pronouncements, but I am aware that the question was hardly closed in historical circles. My impression was that a significant degree of political propaganda may have paved over any such visible conflicts, much like the presentation of the Great Depression as a “product of the excesses of Capitalism” was pushed forward as a theory despite substantial historical disagreement.

I don’t know anything about the rest of Michael van der Galien’s views, so denying the Armenian Genocide might have an explicitly racist motive which destroys any credibility he would have on the issue.

357 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:43:49am

re: #131 jcm

Co-worker is former arty officer, he did a couple tours in S. Korea, he says the Norks arty is a cast iron bitch to counter battery. A lot of it is on rails an rolls back into the mountain. The have programmed firing solutions, roll out fire a round and roll back in. By the time counter battery arrives they’ve rolled back in.

There isn’t any easy answer. Loitering UAV’s would get shot down in droves, because the whole artillery zone is surely covered by very dense flak, both light and heavy. There would be so many outgoing rounds in the sky that UAV’s would have to hug the terrain to limit the risk of getting hit accidentally, but hugging the ground, they’d be vulnerable to infantry fire.

You can’t nuke their positions because they’re so well dug in and so close to Seoul that any nuke that sufficiently hammered the mountains they’re tucked into would hurt Seoul badly.

358 AG in Houston  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:45:38am

Disgusting & unbelievable discourse in the blogosphere.

Charles Johnson speaks for me.

359 sfcmac  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:46:02am

Wasn’t Charles receiving death threats from jihadis, at one point?

I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss those of us who are outspoken anti-Islamofasicts. Radical muslims have racked up quite a body count of “infidels”, in their quest for a world Caliphate. It’s up to us to stop them dead in their tracks, if we want Western Civilization to survive.

I cannot believe that this tiff between Beck and Johnson has exploded into a ridiculous “civil war”.

The Left must be laughing its collective ass off.

360 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:48:53am

re: #356 Cobdenite

Can you post links to back up your statements? The Armenian Genocide was indeed just that and it was official Turkish gov’t policy ruthlessly carried out by the military and countless civilian volunteers.

361 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:50:14am

re: #359 sfcmac

I can’t dismiss neo-nazi styled “anti-islamofascists” fast enough.

362 konservo  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:50:42am

re: #356 Cobdenite

I understand what you are saying, and the posts to which I linked in my previous comment should provide enough material for you to judge whether MvdG is posting on the issue in good faith. However, this is not the post for a flame war on that issue (which I suppose is more controversial than I thought).

363 centaur  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:51:32am

I’ve been reading LGF almost daily since within weeks of 9/11. Can’t remember how I got here—maybe a WSJ link?—but I do know it was for a long time my go to place for otherwise largely ignored information and a measure of sanity. personally, I’m not all that hepped up on the whole Creationism debate and a few other prominent issues here at LGF these days, but I do know I owe thanks to Charles for everything he has done the past 8 years, and after all this is his blog. I just miss the little Zappa quote, dammit.

364 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:51:39am

Clausen is hinting around again that he’d like to sue me, at the Washington Independent:

[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

The problem is that CJ attacks people without justification. US libel laws protect him from legal action on that…

365 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:53:26am

re: #364 Charles

US libel laws protect him from legal action on that…

More like libel law puts the burden of proof on him. Poor thing. ///

366 Cobdenite  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:55:18am

re: #359 sfcmac

See, I don’t think this is just a “tiff between Beck and Johnson”. I think this reflects much broader cultural and political divisions within conservatism itself, between a traditional experience-based, empirical Conservatism and a more modern version of hair-trigger, emotional Republicanism. This means that the political class is drifting further and further away from what actually allowed them to succeed in the past. As they do, they’ll reach further into the extremes and blame the centrists more and more for dividing “the movement”. We, of course, will blame them too. So far the only resolution I see is a division of the party and the movement.

367 sfcmac  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:56:41am

re: #361 Sharmuta

I can’t dismiss neo-nazi styled “anti-islamofascists” fast enough.

Really? I can’t dismiss Dhimmis fast enough, either.

By the way, I’m an Iraq War/Army veteran, outspoken Obama critic, anti-illegal alien, and I’m a gun owner. Therefore, I’m a “security threat” to the Obama State, according to Napolitano’s DHS.

Nice perjorative term there, bud. I thought only leftwingnuts had the knee-jerk thing down.

368 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 11:58:58am

re: #367 sfcmac

I thought only leftwingnuts had the knee-jerk thing down.

Like you did just now to me by implying I’m a dhimmi because I don’t like nazis? And of course, you have the moral authority to do so because you’re a vet, I see.

369 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:00:28pm

re: #364 Charles

Clausen is hinting around again that he’d like to sue me, at the Washington Independent:

[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

Maybe he and Spencer can share a lawyer. Oh, wait. You don’t need a lawyer to make idle threats.

370 sfcmac  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:03:21pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

Like you did just now to me by implying I’m a dhimmi because I don’t like nazis? And of course, you have the moral authority to do so because you’re a vet, I see.

Are you addressing me as a “nazi” because I’m anti-Dhimmi? And yes, being an Iraq war vet and a former Intel/counter-terrorism analyst gives me a lot more experience with the Islamic “culture” than you.

371 Gus  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:06:19pm

re: #364 Charles

Clausen is hinting around again that he’d like to sue me, at the Washington Independent:

[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

That seems to be the MO from the “Keyboard Warriors.” Whenever someone criticizes them they respond with unsubstantiated legal threats. This only displays their fascist tendencies in that “all opposition must be removed from public display.” One could only imagine a world being run by these snakes.

What’s the information on Clausen? He seems to be another one that’s touting the Nazis were leftists meme.

372 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:07:26pm

re: #370 sfcmac

Are you addressing me as a “nazi” because I’m anti-Dhimmi?

That depends. Are you making excuses for robert spencer and pamela geller?

And your service, while admirable, doesn’t shield you from criticisms in your logic.

373 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:11:00pm

re: #371 Gus 802

That seems to be the MO from the “Keyboard Warriors.” Whenever someone criticizes them they respond with unsubstantiated legal threats. This only displays their fascist tendencies in that “all opposition must be removed from public display.” One could only imagine a world being run by these snakes.

What’s the information on Clausen? He seems to be another one that’s touting the Nazis were leftists meme.

Clausen apparently runs the Europenews.dk website, which has posted many vicious attacks on me and seems to be connected to several Eurofascist groups. He’s a very determined apologist for the Vlaams Belang, who tries to keep up a rational appearance, and only occasionally slips into threats and raving.

374 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:12:34pm

re: #356 Cobdenite

I thought that the Armenian Genocide was still a bit of an open question. One of the most well-respected historians of the Middle East of the “old school”, Bernard Lewis, shied away from defining it as a Genocide (if only because it wasn’t explicit government policy unlike the Final Solution, for example).

If Lewis said that, it was based on insufficient documentary evidence. The Armenian Genocide was, in fact, directed by the Ottoman government. Taner Ahkam (a Turk) wrote “A Shameful Act” based in part on the evidence which Lewis didn’t have. The deniers don’t have a leg to stand on.

The excusers have a slightly stronger case. It was Russian policy to get Orthodox minorities in Ottoman land to rebel. This worked very well in the Balkans. In Turkish Armenia, the Orthodox were more in the minority, but they did funnel a lot of intelligence over to the Russians in 1915-1916. The Turks did have legitimate cause to do something; it wasn’t mindless bigotry, or religiously-motivated “jihad”. (Although they did end up telling their Kurds irregulars who did most of the wetwork that it was a jihad.)

Where the excusers go wrong is in saying that genocide was an appropriate solution to this problem.

375 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:12:38pm

re: #373 Charles

Clausen apparently runs the Europenews.dk website

Ah- that explains a few things. Thanks.

376 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:13:31pm

re: #370 sfcmac

Are you addressing me as a “nazi” because I’m anti-Dhimmi? And yes, being an Iraq war vet and a former Intel/counter-terrorism analyst gives me a lot more experience with the Islamic “culture” than you.

Have I mentioned yet that I’m a pr0n star who only dates supermodels?

377 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:14:42pm

Sorry dude, even if true, it’s not worth it to wave around your experience if there is no way it can be backed up.

378 Gus  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:15:00pm

re: #373 Charles

Clausen apparently runs the Europenews.dk website, which has posted many vicious attacks on me and seems to be connected to several Eurofascist groups. He’s a very determined apologist for the Vlaams Belang, who tries to keep up a rational appearance, and only occasionally slips into threats and raving.

OK. Europenews.dk recently carried that dumb video that Geller made regarding LGF. That’s revealing in addition to his threat, rants, and ravings. You can tell a lot about a person when they’re under pressure.

379 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:17:53pm

re: #378 Gus 802

OK. Europenews.dk recently carried that dumb video that Geller made regarding LGF. That’s revealing in addition to his threat, rants, and ravings. You can tell a lot about a person when they’re under pressure.

They’ve posted pro-fjordman, pro-pamela et al, anti-LGF screeds for months. The archives are infested with pro-eurofascist propaganda. It’s nothing more than a clearing house for that ilk.

380 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:18:32pm

re: #376 Zimriel

Have I mentioned yet that I’m a pr0n star who only dates supermodels?

I did not know this about you. I will need proof, though. Linky? ;>)

381 Cobdenite  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:20:23pm

re: #360 Kenneth

Bernard Lewis does not deny the massacre, just government intent and comparisons with the Holocaust. The Wikipedia article here covers both his response, and the criticism he has received. Again, my studies are basically focused on Early Modern Britain and France, so this isn’t my field. But everything I have read by Lewis shows him as being ultimately even-handed. Perhaps he just went off the deep end on this one, but I’ve read enough Past and Present articles to know that political motives can paper over even legitimate debates. The word genocide is so powerful in today’s political language, that I could potentially see a form of self-censorship taking place here, with Lewis being the pariah.

None of this, of course, has any bearing on whether he’s right. These are just factors which could make any legitimate debate pretty much impossible to start. I guess if you go by the the number of historians who criticize Lewis, then he’s wrong. But if you go by the fact that there are trends in the fashions of history (the middle class was pegged to play a much more significant role than they actually did in many parts of history, well into the 70’s., etc), this only makes the opposition to him a passive event.

382 Yashmak  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:22:06pm

re: #376 Zimriel

Have I mentioned yet that I’m a pr0n star who only dates supermodels?

CIA-karate-astronaut here. The pay sux, but lots of travel :)

383 Cobdenite  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:23:08pm

re: #374 Zimriel

I’ll accept this as being far more informed on the subject than my very cursory interest. The excuser faction sounds in some ways worse than the deniers faction. In any case, it seems that the issue has been resolved.

384 Gus  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:24:54pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

They’ve posted pro-fjordman, pro-pamela et al, anti-LGF screeds for months. The archives are infested with pro-eurofascist propaganda. It’s nothing more than a clearing house for that ilk.

That seems to be the tone. Given their alliances I would say that they are more than likely taking advantage of the Jihadist crisis. Thus the crisis becomes a vehicle for the promotion of their overall fascist ideologies which are evident in those alliances.

In this case Europeans may become so blinded from the events that are taking place that they are failing to scrutinize these actors and failing see the future implications of the likes of Vlaams Belang (Vlaams Blok) and other neo-fascist parties.

385 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:25:33pm

A comment at the Washington Independent:

Johnson is a traitor to the republic and should be hanged

386 Yashmak  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:25:44pm

re: #359 sfcmac


The Left must be laughing its collective ass off.

Well, they were already laughing their collective asses off at the ignorance of folks like Spencer, Beck, and Geller, the ID crowd, etc. etc…so little change there.

Charles, and many of the rest of us, are tired of conservatives in general being associated with folks like that.

387 Yashmak  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:26:22pm

re: #385 Charles

A comment at the Washington Independent:

Yeah, I saw that one. I posted a few of my own there in your defense (not that you need it).

388 Gus  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:27:11pm

re: #385 Charles

A comment at the Washington Independent:

Further evidence of the diseased pathology.

389 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:27:54pm

re: #381 Cobdenite

Define genocide. Examine what happened. Make your own conclusions. The Turkish military carried out a genocide against the Armenians. Counter-arguments that Armenians militants provoked the Turks is irrelevant.

390 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:29:22pm

re: #385 Charles

Well at least they’re justified in attacking you. Unlike your “unjustified attacks” on them.

These wackos are getting carried away. Be safe, Charles.

391 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:29:43pm

re: #385 Charles

And they wonder why we call them unhinged.

392 Ruebacca  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:34:32pm

[Ed. note: This user account has been blocked.]

It’s a law of nature “that you become your enemy”. The US mirrored the Soviet Union for example.

Westerners who have resisted Islam have done some of the most horrible things in our history. The Spanish Conquistadors were forged during the reconquest. Dracula impaled thousands of people as sociological warfare resisting the advancing Turkish armies. Crusaders killed tens of thousands.

Resisting Islam has never been clean and easy. Only the totally ruthless have been able to do it. I will stop before I cross over and become an apologist for those on the front lines who face the evil everyday.

Didn’t 9/11 make you understand the Bosnian Serbs a little? Or the extremist Hindus who killed Muslims in ‘Slum-dog’. After all the mindless killing and barbarity we have seen in the last 30 years can you at lest understand the Israeli, Serb, Hindu, African Christian, Filipino Christian, Buddhist in Thailand and Dutch Nationalist a little?

I hope LGF is right and we can resist Islam as rational-secularists. To others fire is fought with fire and the price for an eye is an eye.

/forgive

393 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:35:35pm

re: #383 Cobdenite

I’ll accept this as being far more informed on the subject than my very cursory interest. The excuser faction sounds in some ways worse than the deniers faction. In any case, it seems that the issue has been resolved.

I’m getting a pretty good nose around here for sniffing out between someone legitimately asking questions and a passive-aggressive troll “just askin’ questions, just sayin’”. From the start you seemed like the former and I’m glad you worked up the gumption to ask.

394 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:36:32pm

Disgusting.

395 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:36:36pm

re: #392 Ruebacca

Get the hell off my website. I’m leaving your comment there to show just how deranged you people really are.

396 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:40:08pm

re: #392 Ruebacca

WTF!?!

Two wrongs do not a right make, you nutter. You need not become your enemy to defeat his/her ideology.

397 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:40:19pm
398 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:42:06pm

re: #397 sfcmac

Bye now! Take care.

399 Cobdenite  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:42:57pm

re: #393 Zimriel

No, I really had believed there to be a debate, when in fact there hadn’t. Most of my research is located in the eighteenth and seventeenth centuries, so I defer to your level of expertise in this area. I guess Lewis just decided to make a pronouncement on the weight of his authority rather than his scholarship.

400 robdouth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:44:32pm

re: #84 vxbush

I will let Charles speak for himself regarding his political position. I find it highly presumptuous for anyone to say what he is. Those posters have no right to state it.

Give them a break, maybe they are saying he is what Republicans should be, and therefore in their eyes, a true Republican as they see it. All subjective, and someone’s opinion is not true or false, it just is, unless the opinion is of a fact, but let’s not confuse the point.

401 robdouth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:49:09pm

re: #373 Charles

Clausen apparently runs the Europenews.dk website, which has posted many vicious attacks on me and seems to be connected to several Eurofascist groups. He’s a very determined apologist for the Vlaams Belang, who tries to keep up a rational appearance, and only occasionally slips into threats and raving.

So are you saying the Jonah Goldberg’s pretty rigorous vetting of “liberal fascism” is just bunk. I’m not going so far as to say that no fascism is right wing, or to try to claim that Nazi fascism is a left-wing phenomenon, but to act like it’s strictly a right-wing term when the left employs many of the characteristics of fascism, and the fact that it was socialist, should show that it’s at least an extreme hybrid of left/right. The socialist nature points left, the extreme nationalism points right, and the racism tends to cut both ways as we’ve seen. Basically as I’ve read it, it seems the main difference between Nazi Fascism and Communism was whether it was international or hyper-nationalist socialism. Both are military dictatorships and function similarly.

Velams Belang would be a great example of right leaning fascism, but wouldn’t environmentalist nutjobs be a great example of left-wing fascism?

402 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:50:17pm

I’m fucking speechless…

403 robdouth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:55:16pm

re: #402 medaura18586

I’m fucking speechless…

more specifically at who? There was a lot of vitriol upthread. Gotta be specific with your outrage…

404 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:56:17pm

re: #401 robdouth

So are you saying the Jonah Goldberg’s pretty rigorous vetting of “liberal fascism” is just bunk.

Goldberg makes some valid points in his book, but I think he is terribly wrong to assert that Nazism is a phenomenon of the “left wing.” That’s historically foolish; anyone who has studied the National Socialist movement realizes that the Nazis were very much a far right wing group. There’s a lot of revisionism going on now among conservatives trying to deny this, for political reasons, and I do not agree with it at all.

405 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:58:53pm

re: #403 robdouth

more specifically at who? There was a lot of vitriol upthread. Gotta be specific with your outrage…

Anyone who knows medaura knows what she meant. Believe me- if it was something you’d said, she’d tell you about it.

406 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 12:59:24pm

re: #402 medaura18586

I’m fucking speechless…

I wouldn’t have expected it of her. :^(

407 robdouth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:01:57pm

re: #404 Charles

Goldberg makes some valid points in his book, but I think he is terribly wrong to assert that Nazism is a phenomenon of the “left wing.” That’s historically foolish; anyone who has studied the National Socialist movement realizes that the Nazis were very much a far right wing group. There’s a lot of revisionism going on now among conservatives trying to deny this, for political reasons, and I do not agree with it at all.

Is there a more definitive text I should go to. He seems to be very thorough in his citation, and it’s easy to see where some of it is very left-wing in the sense of valuing animal rights, and environmentalism. I would completely agree that trying to pan off Nazis as left-wingers is very foolish, but would you subscribe to the “horseshoe” philosophy of the political continuum, whereby the far-right and far-left start to look very similar as if those ends of the spectrum are closer at least in tactics and certain beliefs than they are different. For example I would say that a far-left Communist and a far-right Fascist in Nazi Germany have more in common with each other than either of them would with say a moderate Republican or Democrat in America.

408 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:02:10pm

re: #398 Charles

Bye now! Take care.

Now THAT meltdown, I say coming. He may as well have posted big blaring sirens and a picture of Three Mile Island.

409 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:09:01pm

re: #403 robdouth

more specifically at who? There was a lot of vitriol upthread. Gotta be specific with your outrage…

Re: Ruebacca. I missed the second outburst… it was deleted before I got to it.

re: #406 Zimriel

I wouldn’t have expected it of her. :^(

I know, eh! So that’s saying something… me … speechless … But I gotta give it to “Ruebacca”: at least she/he/it is self-conscious of and at ease with the full ugliness of the evil is espouses and excuses. Unlike certain “anti-Jihadi” bloggers who twist themselves like pretzels in order to escape the inescapable conclusions of their ideologies, sympathies, and apologetics.

410 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:09:38pm

re: #409 medaura18586

PIMF: evil it espouses

411 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:09:47pm

re: #404 Charles

Thomas Sowell, in his 1987 book A Conflict of Visions, had this to say about fascism:

…One of the hybrid visions which has had a spectacular rise and fall in the twentieth century is fascism. Here some of the key elements of the constrained vision - obedience to authority, loyalty to one’s people, willingness to fight - were strongly invoked, but always under the overriding imperative to follow an unconstrained leader, under no obligation to respect laws, traditions, institutions, or even common decency. The systematic processes at the core of the constrained vision were negated by a totalitarianism directed against every independent social process, from religion to political or economic freedom. Fascism appropriated some of the symbolic aspects of the constrained vision, without the systemic processes which gave them meaning. It was an unconstrained vision of governance which attributed to its leaders a scope of knowledge and dedication to the common good wholly incompatible with the constrained vision whose symbols it invoked.

Adherents of both the constrained and the unconstrained visions each see fascism as the logical extension of the adversary’s vision. To those on the political left, fascism if “the far right.” Conversely, to Hayek, Hitler’s “national socialism” (Nazism) was indeed socialist in concept and execution.

412 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:11:56pm

re: #411 scottishbuzzsaw

You should join Syrah and I in our book chat.

413 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:16:30pm

re: #412 Sharmuta

You should join Syrah and I in our book chat.

I’d been following the discussion “quietly” for your first two links to it, then lost track. Thanks for linking again!

414 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:16:37pm

The slacker morons at Gawker.com are taking shots at me now:

Gawker - Right-Wing Blogger Goes to War With the Idiots He Created.

Johnson should be commended for taking a stand against neo-Nazis and Glenn Beck. And he should still be condemned for spending the last eight years giving them ammunition and inspiration. If neo-Nazis are into your ideas, Charles, you might want to rethink them.

The stupidity of this remark can’t be understated — the neo-Nazis at places like Stormfront, and the Eurofascists like Vlaams Belang, absolutely despise me and LGF. They have never been “into my ideas,” and only a fool who’s made unsupported assumptions about my ideas could possibly believe that.

415 Sceptic Tank  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:16:46pm

Did someone mention Pat Buchanan? Seems Pat would be quite pleased at Rosa Brooks, the latest miscreant, appointed by the President, to the Pentagon.

416 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:19:35pm

re: #413 scottishbuzzsaw

I’d been following the discussion “quietly” for your first two links to it, then lost track. Thanks for linking again!

Feel free to jump in with any points. We’d love to have some company.

417 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:20:15pm

re: #404 Charles

The Nazi agenda is certainly what we call extreme right today. However, what we call Left and Right today are not the same as the Left & Right in were in Germany in the 1920’s. Both the Communists & the Nazis wanted to sweep away the old order. They differed in the system they would replace it with. Rightists were concerned with defending the old order, including the aristocracy & the officer corps of the military. The Rightists thought they could use the Nazis to defend the old order against the Marxists. They were dead wrong. Once the Nazis got hold of power, they pursued their own ends.

418 Yashmak  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:21:35pm

re: #392 Ruebacca


Didn’t 9/11 make you understand the Bosnian Serbs a little?

It’ll take more than a single terror attack on the USA for me to understand attempted genocide, even on a local level such as we saw in that region.

419 Irish Rose  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:22:32pm

Charles, I’m extremely gratified to see that more folks are stepping up to the plate in your defense.

420 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:25:49pm

re: #417 Kenneth

I’m with Scotti and Thomas Sowell. It’s a hybrid of both right and left, constrained and unconstrained. Fascism is too fluid to be easily classified. It’s one of the reasons it’s so debatable in the first place. It’s like it’s the worst of all the dichotomies mixed together.

421 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:29:06pm

Charles,

May I humbly recommend that you keep all ugly genocide-sympathizing comments from supporters of those crypto-facasist bloggers smearing you?

In the “Srdja Trifkovic—Robert Spencer” article you linked to from my blog, a number of very deranged individuals left comments that were ugly as sin — I let them stand simply because they do a much more efficient job at exposing themselves as evil freaks than I could. If you ban them and immediately repudiate them, no one could confuse the fact that the comment is standing with an endorsement from you. Readers need to know just what kind of lunacy you are denouncing, and it may be best to hear it from the horse’s mouth.

Just my 2c.

422 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:32:09pm

I’ve been in this debate with academics over Nazism as socialism many times. It’s one you cannot win simply because in the end Nazi Germany was an authoritarian dictatorship.

The follow on question that always stumps the guy saying Nazis were fascists/right however is “ok, I will give you that, but what’s the fatal flaw in Socialism / Marxism that leads to evil authoritarian dictatorship?”

423 Yashmak  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:32:18pm

re: #416 Sharmuta

Feel free to jump in with any points. We’d love to have some company.

Thanks to the link, I’m following the comments now as well.

424 Irish Rose  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:32:33pm

re: #421 medaura18586

Readers need to know just what kind of lunacy you are denouncing, and it may be best to hear it from the horse’s mouth.

Just my 2c.

I see your 2c. and raise you 4c.

425 Irish Rose  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:33:21pm

re: #416 Sharmuta

Feel free to jump in with any points. We’d love to have some company.


Where are you?

426 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:37:10pm

re: #420 Sharmuta

Yes. The uni-dimensional linear spectrum is insufficient to define political ideologies. There should be axies for authoritarianism vs liberty, democracy vs autocracy, capitalism vs centrally planned economy. There are significant similarities between Communism & Fascism, as well as differences. In the evolution of ideologies that lead to the development of Fascism, Leftist ideas and methods greatly influenced the Fascists. Many activists switched between Communist, Socialist & Fascist parties. They also fought openly & violently with each other.

427 thebigolddog  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:39:32pm
The stupidity of this remark can’t be understated — the neo-Nazis at places like Stormfront, and the Eurofascists like Vlaams Belang, absolutely despise me and LGF. They have never been “into my ideas,” and only a fool who’s made unsupported assumptions about my ideas could possibly believe that.

I hope you weren’t expecting honesty. The Left and the MSM are going to say whatever they want regardless of reality. It’s their game and their rules. This is just another example of it.

428 Irish Rose  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:39:59pm

*rant on*

I hate, loathe and despise having to edit code! I’m looking for a wee tag in a big template and I just can’t find the damned thing… my eyes are burning.

*rant off*

/just too old to be doing this shit

429 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:39:59pm

re: #422 Thanos

It’s a short walk from Communism to Fascism. Look at China today: by the classic definitions, it’s closer to a Fascist state today than a Communist state.

430 guftafs  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:45:17pm

Read Dr Peikoff’s explanation on the ideological roots of Nazism in The Ominous Parallells.

431 TedStriker  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:53:07pm

re: #385 Charles

A comment at the Washington Independent:

Tolerance!

432 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 1:59:29pm

re: #411 scottishbuzzsaw

In a strange way, both seem to be correct about fascism. It incorporates elements from the left, the corporatism, vestigual socialism; but it also pulls from the right, as it allied with monarchists and other conservatives (by European standards). Mussolini had a fairly coherent economic policy, as did Franco and Peron. Hitler, on the other hand, seems to have been driven more by hate than much else. His economic policies were a mess. Some companies (Krupp) were left alone, others (IG Farben) cooperated very closely with the Nazis, and still yet others (Volkwagen) were fully state-owned enterprises. Then there were the policies which ran the gauntlet from anti-smoking (leftist) to the roles of men and women (rightist). IMHO, it was a mess held together by hate.

Part of the problem of looking at fascism, and totalitarianism as a whole, is that we have the Nazis and their racist hate to deal with. The Nazi style racism was not remotely as big a factor in the Italian model (which is what was used more or less in Spain, Portugal, and Argentina). In many ways, it merits its own category of a country gone berserk rather than simply right or simply left. Hate like that does not pick an ideology, it is an ideology. It consumes people.

The modern neo-Nazis follow in the hate-filled footsteps of the predecessors. Let’s take the BNP as an example. They are full of racial hate, and want to conserve the culture of “old Britian”, hence they are distinctly on the right; however, many of their platforms are distinctly corporatist or even outright socialist ones, not traditional liberal ones.

433 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:00:58pm

re: #429 Kenneth

It’s a short walk from Communism to Fascism. Look at China today: by the classic definitions, it’s closer to a Fascist state today than a Communist state.

Both are flavors of totalitarianism. They differ in their economic models a bit, but leave little room for freedom and liberty.

434 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:08:20pm

re: #433 Honorary Yooper

There were ideological differences between the various European Fascists. The Nazis were probably the closer to the Russian Communists in ideology than other Fascists. But the overwhelming ideology of Nazism was pure racial hatred.

435 TedStriker  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:13:45pm

re: #404 Charles

Goldberg makes some valid points in his book, but I think he is terribly wrong to assert that Nazism is a phenomenon of the “left wing.” That’s historically foolish; anyone who has studied the National Socialist movement realizes that the Nazis were very much a far right wing group. There’s a lot of revisionism going on now among conservatives trying to deny this, for political reasons, and I do not agree with it at all.

I love studying history, especially post-WWI/pre-WWII Germany and the rise of Hitler and the Nazis and I’m with you, Charles. To my knowledge, the Nazis were completely on the opposite end of the political spectrum from the Communists (which, most everyone would agree, are on the “left”). How in the hell can anyone with a functioning brain and a sense of history even argue that the Nazis were anything but right-wing fascists?

/shame on revisionism for political gain, especially from so-called “conservatives”…

436 Cobdenite  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:19:47pm

re: #426 Kenneth

In an essay penned in 1986, The Proper Study of Mankind, Jerry Pournelle actually posited what is now the forgotten multi-axial graph, dividing various political philosophies between statism on the x axis and rationality on the y-axis. Communism and Fascism were both on the same end of the statism line, but on separate ends of the rationalism line (since Communism is ultimately a rationalistic, deductive system, and Fascism is largely emotionalistic and connected strongly German Romanticism). Objectivism was on the opposite end of the statist line, high on the rationalism, separated from anarchists and American “counter-culture” who were on the low end of the rationalism line.

Of course, historically, nationalism and internationalism are also valid rubrics of separating Communism from Fascism, if only because the latter reflects traditional “right-wing” concerns with the nation state developed in the eighteenth century, and the former is a rationalistic attempt to see conflicts and alliances beyond the level of the state. But clearly, attempts to conflate fascism with all types of authoritarianism and thence with the right exclusively are nothing new. Calling such regimes “Statist” would probably be more worthwhile, focusing on their authoritarian similarities rather than their historic differences.

437 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:23:25pm

Additionally, about the site “Europenews”-

They posted a story about the faked cnn-palestinian medical video based on LastMohican’s comments without giving any credit to LGF. The story they used was posted by “tundratabloids”, a rabid pro-VB site. Despite hating Charles, “tundratabloid” still seems to find LGF a worthy source. They stole the story, whitewashed the LGF connection, and promoted the story as if it was their own. How disingenuous.

438 robdouth  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:26:32pm

re: #435 talon_262

I love studying history, especially post-WWI/pre-WWII Germany and the rise of Hitler and the Nazis and I’m with you, Charles. To my knowledge, the Nazis were completely on the opposite end of the political spectrum from the Communists (which, most everyone would agree, are on the “left”). How in the hell can anyone with a functioning brain and a sense of history even argue that the Nazis were anything but right-wing fascists?

/shame on revisionism for political gain, especially from so-called “conservatives”…

I think some of the reasons it’s not as clear cut is because of their animal rights activism, their pushing of vegetarianism, and the hyper-environmentalist stance. The hardcore athiesm and rejection of anything religious. To claim it’s a strictly right-wing movement because of it’s hyper-nationalism and racism is missing at least part of the picture. Remember also that the Nazis were huge proponents of eugenics, which was also wildly popular on the left of that time.

Again this doesn’t mean that Nazism is a left-wing movement at all, but it’s also not a pure right-wing movement.

I think the labels of right and left are just far to simplistic. Obviously I’m someone who leans right-ward on the political spectrum on a number of issues, so I acknowledge there may be some bias in trying to dissassociate this evil from my personal ideology, but I do have a brain and I am arguing that they were more than simply right-wing fascists, which is an unthinking blanket term in and of itself.

439 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:30:12pm

re: #436 Cobdenite

So, using a multi-axial graph as in the book you cite, it is possible that fascists are both “left-wing” and “right-wing” at the same time, but it depends on what axis one uses. This is why the single-dimensional right-left graph fails so badly. One person’s right is another’s left depending on where one is looking from, and at which single-dimensional graph one is looking at.

440 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:43:45pm

re: #404 Charles

Goldberg makes some valid points in his book, but I think he is terribly wrong to assert that Nazism is a phenomenon of the “left wing.” That’s historically foolish; anyone who has studied the National Socialist movement realizes that the Nazis were very much a far right wing group. There’s a lot of revisionism going on now among conservatives trying to deny this, for political reasons, and I do not agree with it at all.

I haven’t read the book myself so this comes with the obligatory grains of salt, but from the quotes from it and any paraphrasing I’ve read, it sounds like Goldberg had half-a-point, and he extended it too far. It is one thing to assert that all flavors of statism (communism & fascism/Nazism) have ideological foundations in common, based on collectivism. Analyzing those common roots is a legitimate inquiry. But every analogy loses its strength when taken too far.

The left-wing nature of Communist movements is no more of a precursor to the right-wing nature of Fascist movements than the other way around. Left-wing vs. right-wing are idiosyncratic characteristics, and they are always unique to the time, place, culture, and movement in which they take hold. Analyzing them in a Platonic world of Ideas is intellectually useless. Any valid parallels must be drawn in the real world, and in the real world, parallels exist but are limited. Though we do know that Mussolini was a communist before he was a fascist, and Nazism stands for National Socialism, for what it’s worth.

441 nikis-knight  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:48:06pm

re: #404 Charles

Goldberg makes some valid points in his book, but I think he is terribly wrong to assert that Nazism is a phenomenon of the “left wing.” That’s historically foolish; anyone who has studied the National Socialist movement realizes that the Nazis were very much a far right wing group. There’s a lot of revisionism going on now among conservatives trying to deny this, for political reasons, and I do not agree with it at all.


Even if that were so, what is considered right wing by european standards has nothing to do with what is considered right wing by American standards.

442 nikis-knight  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:57:05pm
Any valid parallels must be drawn in the real world, and in the real world, parallels exist but are limited.

Fascism and Communism end up looking very similar in practice. As Jonah points out, describing Fidel Castro without using his name conjures the stereotypical picture of a fascist almost perfectly.
I think it’s silly to have a political axis wherein the extremes of each are widely regarded as being more similar to each other than the center. If your “axis” is a parabola, you’re probably looking at the wrong parameter.

443 MPH  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 3:45:36pm

re: #349 Zimriel

Up to mid 2008 they excoriate Buchanan and Taki as fascists and “unpatriotic conservatives”. Then, abruptly, they start writing articles on Buchanan’s and Taki’s magazines.

This is kind of an analogy for what seems to be happening across (much of) the right-side of the blogosphere…not that it wasn’t pre-ordained based on common foundations….but it certainly is strange to see it unfold.

444 Fluffster  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 4:24:32pm

Amen to van der Galien! I also wonder if Charles may be wrong on the Tea parties, but he’s 100% right on the need to distance oneself from the haters.

445 Fluffster  Wed, Apr 22, 2009 4:34:07pm

re: #404 Charles

Goldberg makes some valid points in his book, but I think he is terribly wrong to assert that Nazism is a phenomenon of the “left wing.” That’s historically foolish; anyone who has studied the National Socialist movement realizes that the Nazis were very much a far right wing group. There’s a lot of revisionism going on now among conservatives trying to deny this, for political reasons, and I do not agree with it at all.

I would like to see a realistic, continuous description of the left-right spectrum that supports that conclusion, because it doesn’t fit mine. In my understanding it mostly goes from collectivism to individualism - and I’m sure nobody sees Nazism as the ultimate celebration of individuality!

Besides, the definition of left wing and right wing surely has drifted a bit in the last century or two. What was right wing in the 1930’s may not be right wing in the 21st century. I don’t see that as historical revisionism.

446 Yashmak  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 7:42:09am

re: #427 thebigolddog

I hope you weren’t expecting honesty. The Left and the MSM are going to say whatever they want regardless of reality. It’s their game and their rules. This is just another example of it.


Just like the poll they put out today showing a ‘majority of americans believe the country is headed in the right direction’. There’s an article about it on RealClearPolitics…and on the same page is another poll for the same thing, showing 2/3 of Americans think we’re headed in the wrong direction. Two polls of the same thing, two completely opposite results.


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