Taliban Advance Eastward, Threaten Islamabad

World • Views: 13,216

The militant Islamic throwbacks calling themselves the Taliban are on the brink of taking over one of Pakistan’s main cities: Taliban advance eastward, threaten Islamabad.

Amazingly, they don’t seem to have responded to Barack Obama’s plea for them to unclench their fists.

The Taliban are pushing past the districts of Swat and Buner and are threatening Islamabad, a senior Islamist member of parliament said at a briefing.

The Taliban have consolidated control over the district of Buner and are moving on Mansehre and Haripur. These two regions, which are just on the outskirts of Islamabad and Rawalpindi, have been relatively spared from the violent Taliban insurgency that has plagued the Northwest.

The Taliban have entered the district of Mansehre and are threatening to take of the Tarbela Dam in neighboring Haripur district, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, the chief of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam Fazl, an Islamist political party said during a debate in parliament.

“If the Taliban continue to move at this pace, they will soon be knocking at the doors of Islamabad as the Margala Hills seem to be the only hurdle in their march towards the federal capital,” Fazl said, according to a report in The News. “After occupying Buner, they have reached Kala Dhaka and may also be taking over the water reservoir of the Tarbela Dam.”

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398 comments
1 Wyatt Earp  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:11:31am

Is it 3am yet? Someone needs to call the Obamessiah.

2 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:11:41am

We might need to revive the duck-and-cover ads/drills when Pakistan finally falls.

3 pegcity  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:11:47am

It’s 3 AM Mr president

4 CIA Reject  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:11:53am

Guess we’ll get to see how well Pakistani nuclear safeguards work …

5 pegcity  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:12:26am

so are we going to go in and secure the nukes, or does Obama have some more important bracketing to do

6 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:12:33am

To me, THIS is a huge story that people need to wake up to…

India is watching VERY closely…

7 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:12:52am

Oshit, this is not a good thing. The last thing we need is for Pakistan, a nuclear country, to fall into the hands of the Taliban.

8 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:12:55am

So we ask the Pakistanis to “do something” when they created this monster to begin with.
“Dr Frankenstein, please get your monster to sit down before he triggers that nuclear device. Pretty please?”

9 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:13:34am

I hope the Indians have plans to secure Pakistan’s nukes, because I doubt we’ll do anything.

10 VegasRick  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:13:51am

Thank you Charles.

11 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:17am

What of this is unexpected?

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:21am

re: #5 pegcity

so are we going to go in and secure the nukes, or does Obama have some more important bracketing to do

Obama did say during the campaign that we might have to go in to Pakistan.

Lord, this is not good.

13 acwgusa  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:24am

Something’s clenching around here, but it ain’t my fist!

14 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:32am

Of course, you know this IS our fault for taking our eye off the ball in Afghanistan and not eradicating the Taliban…

/half serious, half joking

15 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:41am

re: #7 Honorary Yooper

Oshit, this is not a good thing. The last thing we need is for Pakistan, a nuclear country, to fall into the hands of the Taliban.

It would simplify things in Iran.

16 Lee Coller  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:43am

Remember, this is only a test.

Joe Biden

17 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:48am

re: #1 Wyatt Earp

Is it 3am yet? Someone needs to call the Obamessiah.

re: #3 pegcity

It’s 3 AM Mr president

It’s two a.m., the fear is gone ….


18 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:14:58am

anything going on now pales in comparison of this story.
jihadis pushing to islamabad. unfckingbelievable.
paw-kee-stawn has nukes mr. totus.
you need to man-up.

19 Dave the.....  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:15:06am
I hope the Indians have plans to secure Pakistan’s nukes, because I doubt we’ll do anything.


People speculate that India, US, Israel have very specific plans in place for just such a situation.

20 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:15:50am

re: #17 Guanxi88

It’s two a.m., the fear is gone ….

[Video]

And the song is … Twilight Zone

21 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:16:25am

re: #3 pegcity

It’s 3 AM Mr president

and he is under the bed.

22 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:16:28am

This is HUGE! If Pakistan falls to the Taliban (and it was close enough as is) then an Islamist state will have nukes. Lets see what Obama does with this 3am wake up call. And with a Us defense chief talking about helping, this could cause a huge escalation in the area. Might Iran step in? Will India do something to secure the nukes? Lots of unknowns in a dangerous area…

23 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:16:30am

re: #20 Kosh’s Shadow

And the song is … Twilight Zone

A wonderful little bit of music, and applicable to many current situations.

24 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:16:48am

re: #19 Dave the…..

People speculate that India, US, Israel have very specific plans in place for just such a situation.

However, it is only speculation…

I would think India does… I’m not certain we ever thought it might come to this…

25 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:16:54am

Another big question, what will India’s response be to this?

26 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:17:20am

re: #19 Dave the…..

People speculate that India, US, Israel have very specific plans in place for just such a situation.

I sure as hell hope so. Last thing we need is for the Taliban to take control of the nuclear arsenal and turn some of it over to Iran or launch it against India.

27 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:17:26am

re: #15 Walter L. Newton

It would simplify things in Iran.

How so…..(truly intrigued by this comment)

28 calcajun  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:17:32am

OK. This will be fun. The Taliban into Islamabad —sort of like the Germans into the Rhineland— but worse.

29 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:17:34am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another big question, what will India’s response be to this?

I cannot imagine India will stand still…

30 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:17:49am

re: #19 Dave the…..

People speculate that India, US, Israel have very specific plans in place for just such a situation.

Good. And India and Israel are cooperating in anti-terrorism and defense. I still doubt 0bama will authorize anything until it is too late, but India and Israel probably will act more quickly. And the Indians would be better able to blend in and carry out a commando raid.

31 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:17:50am

The whole situation begs for Obama to go to Islamabad, apologize for U.S. misbehavior, and sow the seeds of hope, change, and respect for us as a result of the serious, honest discourse.
// <—- need I?

32 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:17:53am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another big question, what will India’s response be to this?

Probably as little as possible for as long as possible, and then as much as possible as quickly as possible. Bound to be ugly.

33 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:18:00am

re: #15 Walter L. Newton

It would simplify things in Iran.

Yeah, they’d have nukes now rather than in the near future.

34 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:18:09am

What is their missile capability? Similar to the NOrks?

35 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:18:18am

Horror: Taliban Behead Pakistani Troops in Swat Video


A video which claims to show Taliban troops in Pakistan’s Swat valley murdering men accused of being “spies” for the government and the U.S. has emerged. It’s really horrible and the only people who should watch it are Taliban sympathizers.

You’d think I’d be immune to the effects of these kind of snuff videos by now, but I’m not. The horror of Islamists beheading their victims in accordance with Islamic law for alleged “crimes” never really goes away.

So, if you think the Taliban are just a bunch of freedom fighters, watch this video.

If you think Islamic law is some kind of noble endeavor, watch this video.

Or, if you just need to be reminded of how brutal our enemies are, watch this video.

36 That's Mr. President to you  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:18:40am

By now I think it is clear that everyone in the world loves me, and especially so for being “cool as a cucumber.”

But, frankly, it pisses me off that these guys would do this sort of thing in the first 100 days of my presidency.

37 Lee Coller  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:18:44am

re: #31 jwb7605

The whole situation begs for Obama to go to Islamabad, apologize for U.S. misbehavior, and sow the seeds of hope, change, and respect for us as a result of the serious, honest discourse.
// <—- need I?

The scary thing is there is probably some advisor of his arguing for him to do just that.

This is not SARC.

38 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:19:01am

re: #33 Honorary Yooper

Yeah, they’d have nukes now rather than in the near future.

But the Obama Administration said a few weeks ago that the Taliban and Iran do not get along…

39 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:19:37am

re: #37 Lee Coller

The scary thing is there is probably some advisor of his arguing for him to do just that.

This is not SARC.

Hillary, I’m guessing. It would seem to fit her initial job description.

40 opinionated  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:19:46am

Obama will claim it’s not his fault, it happened when he was four years old when he was out looking for a dog.

41 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:02am
42 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:02am

re: #14 tfc3rid

Of course, you know this IS our fault for taking our eye off the ball in Afghanistan and not eradicating the Taliban…

/half serious, half joking

Afghanistan was only part of the problem. Pakistan was a big problem that was the 800 pound gorilla that the Bush Administration had sought to keep under wraps. They dealt with Musharraf who was notorious for engaging in the cycle of violence - appeasement followed by crackdown every time there was an assassination attempt on his life. The Islamists knew this, and their power grew.

With the Zardari government, nothing really has changed except that the Islamists are moving even faster against the government than under Musharraf. Part of that is due to Zardari’s reliance on the Islamists to have come to power in the first place. Musharraf managed to barely hold things under control.

Zardari’s government is barely able to send military forces against Mehsud and the Taliban, and those that have gone, have done an inadequate job.

43 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:04am

re: #38 tfc3rid

But the Obama Administration said a few weeks ago that the Taliban and Iran do not get along…

I believe everything Obama tells me…

/////

44 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:04am

re: #1 Wyatt Earp

Is it 3am yet? Someone needs to call the Obamessiah.

It’s 5 o’clock 3 A.M. somewhere.

45 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:10am

re: #27 Big Steve

How so…..(truly intrigued by this comment)

It would open the possibility of putting a nuke in the hands of a country that could put it to best use. If the Taliban gets Pakistan’s nukes, I’m quite sure they would pass one or so on to Iran, putting Iran’s nuclear program years ahead of itself.

46 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:30am

There was a note of panic in Hillary’s voice yesterday.

47 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:31am

re: #34 tfc3rid

What is their missile capability? Similar to the NOrks?

No, it’s better .
But what is there to be afraid of?Sleep well

48 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:41am

That’s a delightful map. OK Barry… What do we do about Pahkeestan now? Surely some of your time driving around the place with your dope-dealing college buddies gives you some insight here?

Interesting quote from The Hillary:

Gates’ comments came a day after U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton accused Islamabad of abdicating to the Taliban by agreeing to impose Islamic law in the Swat valley and said Pakistan now posed a “mortal threat” to the world.

So now she’s Tough Hillary? Having a notorious Triangulator as SecState may be a problem in this case… It’s par for the course with the Israeli/Jihad problem, but it doesn’t work so much with mountainous nuclear-armed ratholes.

I don’t think anybody knows what to do about Pakistan anymore. There aren’t enough available troops in the world to secure it.

49 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:20:58am

re: #35 Kenneth

Horror: Taliban Behead Pakistani Troops in Swat Video

I try to avoid that stuff, chiefly because of the cold rage it builds in me, but I do think more people should see what we’re fighting.

50 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:21:01am

WB VR, glad it was a temporary malady.

This has been going on for three years, it’s not new. When Musharraf went the floodgates opened, and I am expecting either full on civil war or formation of a breakaway Taliban state in the frontiers. When Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan) broke away there was separation by India, but in this case they will be face to face.

I’m wondering about our strategy… are we allowing it to happen on purpose, knowing that at some point the Pakistanis might ask for intervention? If they ask for help, who are they going to invite? (most likely other Sunni nations, not us…)

51 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:21:19am

Some in Pakistan say there is no problem here, no danger from the Taliban.
They would Gul us into complacency.
Rest easy … move along.

/like shit!

52 zato  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:21:31am

Barry will continue to try to be on both sides of this issue… both anti-war, dove-like along with his rare, hawkish speeches condemning the Taliban. The problem is that nobody, including probably Barry himself, still knows where he stands on this issue. At the end, Americans might get what the lefties voted for- foreign policy driven by fancy speeches, indecisive action coupled with higher government spending and higher taxes.

53 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:21:56am

What is the over/under on Obama finishing his waffle before the Taliban reaches Islamabad?

54 alexknyc  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:22:34am

re: #19 Dave the…..

People speculate that India, US, Israel have very specific plans in place for just such a situation.

We’d better.

55 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:22:53am

re: #52 zato

At the end, Americans might get what the lefties voted for- foreign policy driven by fancy speeches, indecisive action coupled with higher government spending and higher taxes.

So, you’re saying I should stock up on booze and try to ride this mess out?

56 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:22:59am

re: #48 Pawn of the Oppressor

That’s a delightful map. OK Barry… What do we do about Pahkeestan now? Surely some of your time driving around the place with your dope-dealing college buddies gives you some insight here?

Interesting quote from The Hillary:

So now she’s Tough Hillary? Having a notorious Triangulator as SecState may be a problem in this case… It’s par for the course with the Israeli/Jihad problem, but it doesn’t work so much with mountainous nuclear-armed ratholes.

I don’t think anybody knows what to do about Pakistan anymore. There aren’t enough available troops in the world to secure it.

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
Pick two sides of the Pakistan/Iran/US triangle and predict the outcome …

57 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:23:15am

you know what we need to do now… Lets cut defense spending so we don’t have the advanced weapons to take care of a dangerous world… Yeah, thats the ticket….

58 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:23:27am

When we read about the “Taliban” today, bear in mind, this is not the Taliban of 10 years ago. Then, the Taliban were a bunch of ignorant Pashtoon tribesmen. Today, a large number of the fighters, including most of the senior commanders are Al Qaeda. These are Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and others.

If Pakistan falls and the “Taliban” get hold of the nuclear arsenal, then Al Qaeda will have nuclear weapons.

59 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:23:50am
60 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:24:10am

Look for Barry to drone on about this.

61 zombie  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:24:19am

Unclench your first, we’re peaceful can’t you see.
Unclench your first, we’re acting liberally.
You’ve got O backed up against the wall
Where he might have to make the bombs fall, so
Unclench your first, Mr. Taliban please.

62 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:24:28am

re: #58 Kenneth

When we read about the “Taliban” today, bear in mind, this is not the Taliban of 10 years ago. Then, the Taliban were a bunch of ignorant Pashtoon tribesmen. Today, a large number of the fighters, including most of the senior commanders are Al Qaeda. These are Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and others.

If Pakistan falls and the “Taliban” get hold of the nuclear arsenal, then Al Qaeda will have nuclear weapons.

Items like the above help me to sleep at night…

Anybody know a good rock to hide under for the next century or more?

63 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:24:45am

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

It would open the possibility of putting a nuke in the hands of a country that could put it to best use. If the Taliban gets Pakistan’s nukes, I’m quite sure they would pass one or so on to Iran, putting Iran’s nuclear program years ahead of itself.

What has been the relationship between the Taliban (when in power in Afganistan) and Iran? I am never quite certain which branch of Islam hates the other.

64 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:24:55am

re: #59 buzzsawmonkey

Yes—you’ll be able to barter booze for wives with our Saudi overlords.

Nahh, I’ll keep the booze, thanks. (Polygamy, in any civilized culture, is its own punishment; that these barbarians choose to practice it shows how backward and benighted they truly are.)

65 opinionated  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:07am

re: #43 MikeAlv77

I believe everything Obama tells me…

/////

If you also have a tingle running up your leg, I’m afraid it’s serious. You’ve caught Chrismatthewcitis.

66 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:12am

re: #58 Kenneth

When we read about the “Taliban” today, bear in mind, this is not the Taliban of 10 years ago. Then, the Taliban were a bunch of ignorant Pashtoon tribesmen. Today, a large number of the fighters, including most of the senior commanders are Al Qaeda. These are Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and others.

If Pakistan falls and the “Taliban” get hold of the nuclear arsenal, then Al Qaeda will have nuclear weapons.

Bingo… So we really want ALQ to have nukes? Hell no… Will we pre-emtively attack them to prevent it? Hmmmm….

67 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:12am

Taliban spokesman says that the first fatwa of their new sharia administration will be to change the city’s name to Islamagood.

68 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:13am

If the Pakistani military has not done anything yet to these guys, I pretty much think they won’t. It will get extremely ugly when they take over the capitol, not to mention the place(s) where the nukes are.

69 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:29am

Does Pop-secret make curry flavored popcorn?

70 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:37am

re: #66 tfc3rid

Bingo… So we really want ALQ to have nukes? Hell no… Will we pre-emtively attack them to prevent it? Hmmmm….

I have a bad feeling about this.

71 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:44am

re: #63 Big Steve

What has been the relationship between the Taliban (when in power in Afganistan) and Iran? I am never quite certain which branch of Islam hates the other.

I think the Iranians don’t think that the Taliban was extreme enough…

72 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #62 MikeAlv77

Items like the above help me to sleep at night…

Anybody know a good rock to hide under for the next century or more?

Might I suggest the Qaba? It’s probably relatively safe from nuke strike, but it might be tricky getting there.

73 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #55 Guanxi88

So, you’re saying I should stock up on booze and try to ride this mess out?

Ordinarily “yes”, but they have nukes up in them thar mountains, so… Maybe build a fallout shelter, THEN get drunk in it.

If, G-d forbid, they got a hold of a bomb, I wonder how they plan to get it out of the area. Even a small nuke might be a bit much for a mule to carry. We’d be watching for secured movement of anything bigger.

74 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:25:59am

I would also caution folks to recall that the Taliban and Islamists are already well established inside Islamabad. After all, they run the madrassas and have allies in places like the Lal Masjid, from which the Islamists attempted to overthrow the Musharraf government in 2007. There are reports that the Lal Masjid was an AQ inspired operation.

75 That's Mr. President to you  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:26:15am

Well now that I have read the thread, it seems most of you think there are national security implications to all of this.

I suppose that is true, seeing as Pakistan has nukes. But we should focus on the bigger implications - what if Islamabad falls in the first 100 days of my presidency? Think of the impact that might have on my legacy.

Let’s focus on what is important people.

76 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:26:17am

re: #69 DaddyG

Does Pop-secret make curry flavored popcorn?

By the many arms of Vishnu, they should!

77 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:26:31am
78 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:26:31am

re: #58 Kenneth

When we read about the “Taliban” today, bear in mind, this is not the Taliban of 10 years ago. Then, the Taliban were a bunch of ignorant Pashtoon tribesmen. Today, a large number of the fighters, including most of the senior commanders are Al Qaeda. These are Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and others.

If Pakistan falls and the “Taliban” get hold of the nuclear arsenal, then Al Qaeda will have nuclear weapons.

I love this kind of information (not that it’s good news), but where do you get this stuff?

79 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:26:35am

re: #68 JohnnyReb

If the Pakistani military has not done anything yet to these guys, I pretty much think they won’t. It will get extremely ugly when they take over the capitol, not to mention the place(s) where the nukes are.

The Pakistani military is basically remaining in their barracks… Similarly, the police in these areas are simply remining in their HQ when the Taliban comes riding in…

80 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:26:50am

re: #58 Kenneth

When we read about the “Taliban” today, bear in mind, this is not the Taliban of 10 years ago. Then, the Taliban were a bunch of ignorant Pashtoon tribesmen. Today, a large number of the fighters, including most of the senior commanders are Al Qaeda. These are Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and others.

If Pakistan falls and the “Taliban” get hold of the nuclear arsenal, then Al Qaeda will have nuclear weapons.

Given the past relationship between the two, I already knew it.

So, where will the first target be?
India, over Kashmir?
Israel?
The US?
Saudi Arabia (because Osama thinks they aren’t fundamentalist enough)?

I’m sure Khan will help, unfortunately. Otherwise, I could say they might have the mother of all work accidents.
“Achmed, what does this button do?”

81 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:01am

re: #73 Pawn of the Oppressor

Ordinarily “yes”, but they have nukes up in them thar mountains, so… Maybe build a fallout shelter, THEN get drunk in it.

If, G-d forbid, they got a hold of a bomb, I wonder how they plan to get it out of the area. Even a small nuke might be a bit much for a mule to carry. We’d be watching for secured movement of anything bigger.

A truck would do just fine to move it, or one of those bizzarro-world buses you see all over the place.

82 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:04am

re: #70 Honorary Yooper

I have a bad feeling about this.

And think of how many people really will not understand the significance of this…

83 joncelli  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:06am

The Pakistanis have been playing both ends against the middle for so long that they have lulled themselves into complacency. They assumed that if they created the Taliban — which they did — they could control it, which they cannot. The Taliban don’t necessarily care about Afghanistan, they care about having a base of operations. If not Afghanistan, then Pakistan is even better. The ISI thought they would just turn the Taliban off like a robot when things got out of hand…and then learned that the robot wasn’t taking orders anymore. This is a self-inflicted wound for Pak.

84 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:24am

re: #63 Big Steve

What has been the relationship between the Taliban (when in power in Afganistan) and Iran? I am never quite certain which branch of Islam hates the other.

They all hate Jews, enough said. It’s my opinion Steve, I don’t have Intel on it.

85 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:27am

re: #74 lawhawk

I would also caution folks to recall that the Taliban and Islamists are already well established inside Islamabad. After all, they run the madrassas and have allies in places like the Lal Masjid, from which the Islamists attempted to overthrow the Musharraf government in 2007. There are reports that the Lal Masjid was an AQ inspired operation.

Fifth column? Sounds like they have a potential major problem within Islamabad itself.

86 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:30am

re: #79 tfc3rid

The Pakistani military is basically remaining in their barracks… Similarly, the police in these areas are simply remining in their HQ when the Taliban comes riding in…

In this case the “plomo or plata” comes into play

87 KenJen  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:33am

Has anyone told Obama about this yet?

88 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:27:34am

re: #36 That’s Mr. President to you

By now I think it is clear that everyone in the world loves me, and especially so for being “cool as a cucumber.”

But, frankly, it pisses me off that these guys would do this sort of thing in the first 100 days of my presidency.

someday you may realize that everything that happens in the world is not at
your convenience. mr. totus.
btw, paw-kee-stawn doesn’t love you. neither do those thugs in so. america.
you are NOT totus of the world. so get a grip.

89 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:28:00am

re: #63 Big Steve

What has been the relationship between the Taliban (when in power in Afganistan) and Iran? I am never quite certain which branch of Islam hates the other.

They alternately hate then hug each other. Iran is supplying them weapons and has sheltered their leaders at times. They allow their borders to be porous or non porous dependent on mood.

The Taliqaida are aslo on a steady campaign of killing Shia in regions of Pakistan, and that goes hot and cold depending on detente with Iran. Iran Qods force isn’t just working to destabilize Afghanistan, they are also working on Pakistan, and all their other neighbors to boot.

90 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:28:08am

re: #75 That’s Mr. President to you

Well now that I have read the thread, it seems most of you think there are national security implications to all of this.

I suppose that is true, seeing as Pakistan has nukes. But we should focus on the bigger implications - what if Islamabad falls in the first 100 days of my presidency? Think of the impact that might have on my legacy.

Let’s focus on what is important people.

How can we tell it is you and not TOTUS speaking?

91 DistantThunder  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:28:16am

Don’t Worry…Barack Obama…is in charge…..sort of….in his beta-male way.

I’m sure our enemies have not forgotten that Obama has

No military experience,
No foreign policy experience,
No economic experience,
No business experience, and
No executive experience.

Strike that ….Obama has 100 days of all of the above. Our enemies love Obama.

92 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:28:32am

re: #83 joncelli

The Pakistanis have been playing both ends against the middle for so long that they have lulled themselves into complacency. They assumed that if they created the Taliban — which they did — they could control it, which they cannot. The Taliban don’t necessarily care about Afghanistan, they care about having a base of operations. If not Afghanistan, then Pakistan is even better. The ISI thought they would just turn the Taliban off like a robot when things got out of hand…and then learned that the robot wasn’t taking orders anymore. This is a self-inflicted wound for Pak.

On the upside, it might simplify the equation when the subject of “invading Pakistan” comes up again.

93 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:28:40am

This is really,really bad news boys and girls.
There are few good options. The best one is not the one the CINC will employ.

He’ll react, and it won’t be pretty.

94 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:28:45am

re: #62 MikeAlv77

Items like the above help me to sleep at night…

Anybody know a good rock to hide under for the next century or more?

Here

95 jcm  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:29:07am

Pakistan: Children of the Taliban.

Frontline World, take the commentary for what its worth frequent typical leftist BS. However the interviews with the Pakistanis is worth watching, very revealing and disturbing.

96 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:29:09am

re: #56 jwb7605

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
Pick two sides of the Pakistan/Iran/US triangle and predict the outcome …

But there are no opinion polls to guide her. Unless of course they finally manage to vaporize mid-town Manhattan (then she’d probably come out firmly on the side of military action).

Of course at that point it would be too late, but when have the Clintons ever been on time for a crisis? They LIKE damage control, it’s what makes them feel powerful.

“Solve the great problem while it is still small” - some old dead Chinese guy they clearly don’t teach in school anymore.

97 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:29:19am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another big question, what will India’s response be to this?

To quote Krusty The Klown: “What’s the difference between Pakistan & a pancake? I don’t know any pancakes that were nuked by India! Hey-hey!”

But seriously, is the Pakistani military fighting the Taliban at all? They do have a pretty capable military, which has matched up to conventional enemies like India in the past.

98 Idle Drifter  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:29:45am

My main concern is where are the nukes and who controls them?

99 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:29:46am

re: #89 Thanos

They alternately hate then hug each other. Iran is supplying them weapons and has sheltered their leaders at times.

Yes,

“I against my brother; my brother and I against my cousin; my cousin and I against my uncle; my uncle and I against my tribe; my tribe and I against my nation; my nation and I against the world.”

100 rawmuse  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:29:50am

I frankly expect the very worst outcome from this entire scenario.
Nothing would surprise me, except the possibility that this problem is handled effectively by our present administration. That would shock me.

101 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:29:56am

re: #94 Kosh’s Shadow HA! Knew that blue text linked something about Cheyenne Mountain before I even scrolled over it. Nice.

102 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:30:13am

re: #94 Kosh’s Shadow

Here

That’s where the tunnels at DIA end up at.

103 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:30:18am

re: #82 tfc3rid

And think of how many people really will not understand the significance of this…

I do - Yooper was quoting Star Wars!
/

104 That's Mr. President to you  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:30:25am

I don’t really understand why everyone here is so worried about the Taliban getting nuclear weapons.

The United States has had nuclear weapons for a long time and, as I keep reminding world leaders, the United States is the worst country in the world.

Now let’s stay focused and talk about how this might make me look bad and how Time magazine may punish me by keeping my face off the cover for a whole month.

105 WarBicycle  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:30:30am

Pakistan must be run by idiots; the Taliban is using the same tactics it used to take over Afghanistan. Sometime within the next few months it will be calling the shots and executing Pakistan’s former leaders.

106 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:30:43am

re: #79 tfc3rid

The Pakistani military is basically remaining in their barracks… Similarly, the police in these areas are simply remining in their HQ when the Taliban comes riding in…

They want to keep their heads.

107 alegrias  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:31:05am

re: #74 lawhawk

I would also caution folks to recall that the Taliban and Islamists are already well established inside Islamabad. After all, they run the madrassas and have allies in places like the Lal Masjid, from which the Islamists attempted to overthrow the Musharraf government in 2007. There are reports that the Lal Masjid was an AQ inspired operation.

* * * *
Didn’t they just release the perpetrator of this Lal Masjid/ Red Mosque mullah business last week?

108 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:31:20am

re: #102 Walter L. Newton

That’s where the tunnels at DIA end up at.

Yeah. The train I was on malfunctioned near the StarGate once …

109 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:31:20am

re: #94 Kosh’s Shadow

Here

Now you’re talking but I don’t think they have condos for sale there… This is such a bad development but most people will be carung that Lindsay Lohan is dating men again…. Until the nuke goes off next door and they wonder what happened…

110 DistantThunder  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:31:41am

re: #87 KenJen

Has anyone told Obama about this yet?

Obama didn’t know about Rev. Wright’s extreme political views.

He didn’t know about Bill Ayer’s terrorist past.

Obama wasn’t aware of the tea parties.

Obama is NOT Mr. Awareness - but he gives good talk.

111 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:31:45am

re: #93 Van Helsing

This is really,really bad news boys and girls.
There are few good options. The best one is not the one the CINC will employ.

He’ll react, and it won’t be pretty.

JUST LIKE JOLTIN’ JOE BIDEN SAID!

112 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:31:54am
113 Russkilitlover  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:32:12am

We’re just here to preach Sharia

“We are here peacefully preaching for Sharia. We don’t want to fight,” Khalil told an AP reporter by phone.

In the attack on NATO, dozens of militants armed with guns and gasoline bombs burned five tanker trucks carrying fuel to NATO troops in Afghanistan, police said.

NATO and the U.S. military insist that their losses on the transport route remain minimal and have had no impact on their expanding operations in Afghanistan. However, they have been seeking alternative routes through Central Asia.

We’re comin’ to your town
We’re jammin’ Sharia down
We’re the Taliban

114 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:32:45am
115 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:32:46am

re: #75 That’s Mr. President to you

Well now that I have read the thread, it seems most of you think there are national security implications to all of this.

I suppose that is true, seeing as Pakistan has nukes. But we should focus on the bigger implications - what if Islamabad falls in the first 100 days of my presidency? Think of the impact that might have on my legacy.

Let’s focus on what is important people.

But hold on now, um, Pawkeestawn was created in 1947, that’s like…ummm ahhh… let’s see… take 47 away from 61…ummm… 14. Yeah, that was like 14 years before I was even born! you can’t blame this on me. On the other hand, George Bush was born in 1946! Which means it’s all his fault! Did I mention Iraq was a distraction from Pawkeestawn?Good. So it really doesn’t involve ME.

116 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:32:49am

Just cuz -
I keel you!

117 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:04am

Everyone also needs to understand that Islamabad is somewhat of an artificial city. It was built on the border of NWFP specifically to bridge the Punjab to the frontiers when they moved the capital from Karachi. Cooling friction between the Sindh and Punjab was also part of the goal.
So there’s not many beyond bureaucrats who really “live” in Islamabad full time and call it permanent home, during holidays it’s deserted when people go to their tribal homes…

118 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:16am

I know he is not in power any more but where is Musharraf?

119 realwest  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:29am

re: #93 Van Helsing

This is really,really bad news boys and girls.
There are few good options. The best one is not the one the CINC will employ.

He’ll react, and it won’t be pretty.


I couldn’t agree with you more. And btw, I have reason to believe that when then candidate Obama said he’d invade Pakistan, Pakistan moved all of their nukes and some of their missiles to locations which they deliberately didn’t tell us about. Geez, I hope Obama doesn’t pull a Carter and try to send in Special Forces to “secure” Pakistan’s nukes. This is gonna get real bad.

120 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:34am

Not to worry - Obama is going to take care of this, as soon as he finishes making credit cards fair for everyone.

121 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:45am

it is just astounding that so many people are going abt. their civilized business in
civilized places and as we speak, the most brutal primitive savage jihadis are pushing to gain control of lethal weapons that they intend to use in the most devastating ways against the world.

122 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:49am

re: #97 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

To quote Krusty The Klown: “What’s the difference between Pakistan & a pancake? I don’t know any pancakes that were nuked by India! Hey-hey!”

But seriously, is the Pakistani military fighting the Taliban at all? They do have a pretty capable military, which has matched up to conventional enemies like India in the past.

True, but the government has botched their response to the Taliban.

Best case scenario here: Another Pakistani General gets fed up with this and launches another coup, neutering the current Pakistani leadership and mobilizing the army to deal with the Taliban effectively.

123 alegrias  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:51am

re: #105 WarBicycle

Pakistan must be run by idiots; the Taliban is using the same tactics it used to take over Afghanistan. Sometime within the next few months it will be calling the shots and executing Pakistan’s former leaders.

* * * *
The Taliban is using the tactics it perfected during the Clinton Administration.

The Taliban and their Talibs know who’s running the US today and they figure the go-go “Don’t Stop Thinking About Tomorrow” Dayz are back in the USA.

124 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:33:57am

re: #108 jwb7605

Yeah. The train I was on malfunctioned near the StarGate once …

Stop that. There are people here who understand that you are telling the truth. Just keep it quiet.

125 abolitionist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:34:18am
126 Land Shark  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:34:20am

This is the worst possible news. Those Taliban sickos getting a hold of Pakistan’s nukes is a real nightmare scenario, I imagine India’s military is on the highest alert as they monitor this.

This will be a real test for our Teleprompter In Chief, far beyond pirates holding hostages. I hope and pray he’s getting good advice, but I can’t help feeling dread at the realization of who’s running our country. If the Taliban succeed, the world just a got a whole lot more dangerous.

Pakistan and soon Iran. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a good time to pray…

127 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:34:25am
128 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:34:54am

re: #118 tfc3rid

I know he is not in power any more but where is Musharraf?

Poppies, beautiful poppies. Farming.

129 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:35:10am

re: #104 That’s Mr. President to you

I don’t really understand why everyone here is so worried about the Taliban getting nuclear weapons.

The United States has had nuclear weapons for a long time and, as I keep reminding world leaders, the United States is the worst country in the world.

Now let’s stay focused and talk about how this might make me look bad and how Time magazine may punish me by keeping my face off the cover for a whole month.

Mr. President, and I mean this nicely, do you ever think that you might happen to be where they decide to set off a nuke? I know you don’t think they’d want to nuke you, but they might get it all set up and turned on before they know you’re within the blast radius.

130 aggieann  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:35:15am

re: #78 eschew_obfuscation

I love this kind of information (not that it’s good news), but where do you get this stuff?

I am learning a lot from the book “Epicenter,” although it’s worth reading the negative as well as positive reader reviews on Amazon.

131 opinionated  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:35:23am

Obama is the worst possible person to be President in this moment in time.

Years ago, well before the 2008 election crystallized, long before the financial meltdown, when Iraq was the focus and Pakistan was being ignored, I was not very popular on Republican/Conservative blogs when I was pushing Giuliani for President with the prediction that Bush will leave a mess as great if not greater then Carter, and we desperately needed a proved competent President to clean up after him.

Instead we got the absolute worse President imaginable.

132 barry the baptist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:35:24am

I guess we should bury our heads a little further down in the sand. Perhaps if we keep asking (a little nicer maybe?) then the Taliban aka the ISI will become more prone to peace. This has been a problem for quite a long time there. The ISI has orchestrated most of this crap that we now see and are having to deal with in that region.

Moreso problematic: how can you determine if a PAK soldier is loyal to PAK? How can you know who’s who in this whole mess. Opportunists galore…and all armed to the teeth and within reach of nukes.

A shame really, but when 1936 starts playing out again, it’s not too surprising that the enemies we have currently have just stalled for ‘peace’ and in the interim prepared for war. The real question is: where is our leadership and what are we going to do about it?

Frankly, I am afraid of that answer……

133 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:35:25am

re: #107 alegrias

* * * *
Didn’t they just release the perpetrator of this Lal Masjid/ Red Mosque mullah business last week?

Yes.

134 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:35:47am

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

Poppies, beautiful poppies. Farming.

Beautiful dreams, man, beautiful dreams.

Somehow, I liked the guy; don’t know why, but I had this sense that, if he drank, I’d enjoy having a beer with him.

135 That's Mr. President to you  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:36:11am

re: #110 DistantThunder

Obama didn’t know about Rev. Wright’s extreme political views.

He didn’t know about Bill Ayer’s terrorist past.

Obama wasn’t aware of the tea parties.

Obama is NOT Mr. Awareness - but he gives good talk.

The Taliban are just some guys who live on our global street. They formed back when I was a kid. I have worked with Tom Coburn - no one complained about me going easy on a terrorist when I did that.

[did I miss some?]

136 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:36:14am

re: #78 eschew_obfuscation

I love this kind of information (not that it’s good news), but where do you get this stuff?

I’ve been reading The Long War Journal for years now. Bill Roggio has written in the Al Qaeda-Taliban nexus.

137 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:36:17am

re: #118 tfc3rid

I know he is not in power any more but where is Musharraf?

Finishing his memoirs - “I Told You So!”

138 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:36:20am

re: #133 Kosh’s Shadow

Yes.

Well, then, there’s nothing to worry about, is there?

139 jcm  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:36:25am

re: #98 Idle Drifter

My main concern is where are the nukes and who controls them?

We provided assistance and funding to Pakistan for nuclear security.

That means we have detail knowledge on location, systems and procedures.

It also means we have an exfiltration plan.

Question is will we execute? The outrage, slings of arrows of invading Pakistan, extracting the nucs is preferable to letting the Taliban have them.

140 Morganfrost  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:36:46am

If this gets any worse, our leadership may have to resort to saying how really, really sorry they are for all the things our country did. And, if that doesn’t do it, we launch Operation Pretty-Please-With-a-Cherry-On-Top. That’ll show ‘em.

141 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:36:59am

re: #139 jcm

We provided assistance and funding to Pakistan for nuclear security.

That means we have detail knowledge on location, systems and procedures.

It also means we have an exfiltration plan.

Question is will we execute? The outrage, slings of arrows of invading Pakistan, extracting the nucs is preferable to letting the Taliban have them.

Destroy-in-place is always an option.

142 alegrias  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:37:07am

Who woulda thunk the Taliban would advance within 100 Days of Pres. Obama’s inauguration!

I thought these people were hiding under rocks.

143 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:37:30am
144 realwest  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:37:34am

re: #118 tfc3rid

I know he is not in power any more but where is Musharraf?

I’d bet a TON of money that he ain’t in Pakistan anymore. Remember, when he led Pakistan there were some 14 assassination attempts on him.
One of Bushes biggest blunders was to not support Mushareef, IMO.

145 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:37:43am

Obama just hasn’t connected with the right moderate Taliban folks yet. Maybe he could offer them a DVD collection?

/////////////////////////////

146 Russkilitlover  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:37:45am

re: #137 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Finishing his memoirs - “I Told You So!”

He was the Tito of Pakistan.

147 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:37:50am

re: #142 alegrias

Who woulda thunk the Taliban would advance within 100 Days of Pres. Obama’s inauguration!

I thought these people were hiding under rocks.

Well, I guess fear of an indictment lacks the deterrent force it once had.

148 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:38:39am

re: #144 realwest

I’d bet a TON of money that he ain’t in Pakistan anymore. Remember, when he led Pakistan there were some 14 assassination attempts on him.
One of Bushes biggest blunders was to not support Mushareef, IMO.

He sure took a lot of shit for helping us.

149 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:38:40am
150 Big Print  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:38:43am

If Pakistan folds, how do we supply our troops in Afghanistan?

151 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:38:50am

re: #121 nyc redneck

it is just astounding that so many people are going abt. their civilized business in
civilized places and as we speak, the most brutal primitive savage jihadis are pushing to gain control of lethal weapons that they intend to use in the most devastating ways against the world.

Remember back when the nuclear club was limited to 5 or 6 rational countries (and France) - we were “2 minutes from midnight” & we were forced to watch (at least I was) absurd agitprop like “The Day After”? Now, to paraphrase Mark Steyn, anyone with an Islamabad Yellow Pages can get a nuke together, no one seems to care?

152 aggieann  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:39:13am

re: #82 tfc3rid

And think of how many people really will not understand the significance of this…

I was thinking more along the lines of “Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.”

153 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:39:17am

Has Sec. Gates said anything yet? I’m wondering if we will hear another “gosh, just like with all those pirates and the Nork missile, we just can’t take care of all this stuff” statement. l kind of hope so, in that the rest of the world still needs the wake up call.

154 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:39:25am

re: #149 buzzsawmonkey

Being a process server in Pakistan is not a sought-after job.

Pretty high rates of attrition, I’d imagine.

155 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:39:38am

re: #150 Big Print

If Pakistan folds, how do we supply our troops in Afghanistan?

Come on you know the answer to that one. Go Ahead.

156 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:39:59am
157 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:40:03am

re: #130 aggieann

I am learning a lot from the book “Epicenter,” although it’s worth reading the negative as well as positive reader reviews on Amazon.

Thanks! I’ll take a look…

158 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:40:10am

re: #141 Guanxi88

Destroy-in-place is always an option.

If it was me, there would be about 50 teams en-route to exercise just that option. And international borders be damned.

There are some questions about how many nukes they really have also. Estimates vary from about 25 to 50. They also have enough materials to make upto an additional 50 weapons. If that does not scare Obama into becoming mature, nothing will.

159 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:40:35am

Also, when Canadian troops were fighting a major battle in Panjwei valley, southwest of Kandahar, fully half the fighters they killed or captured were non-Afghans. There were Pakistanis, Arabs, & Chechens (said to be the toughest fighters). The local Afghan Taliban were fodder pressed into fighting for the terrorists. More often than not, the local kids would fire one shot and run away.

160 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:40:42am

re: #139 jcm

We provided assistance and funding to Pakistan for nuclear security.

That means we have detail knowledge on location, systems and procedures.

It also means we have an exfiltration plan.

Question is will we execute? The outrage, slings of arrows of invading Pakistan, extracting the nucs is preferable to letting the Taliban have them.

It also means that the Chinese likely know where they are too. The Chinese are a lot closer than we are, and they certainly don’t want an India/Pakistan nuke fest on their border.

161 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:40:46am

re: #151 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Remember back when the nuclear club was limited to 5 or 6 rational countries (and France) - we were “2 minutes from midnight” & we were forced to watch (at least I was) absurd agitprop like “The Day After”? Now, to paraphrase Mark Steyn, anyone with an Islamabad Yellow Pages can get a nuke together, no one seems to care?

I remember that “doomsday clock” bullshit. And The Day After.

/nuking lawrence, kansas?

162 Opinionated  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:40:54am

re: #153 funky chicken

Has Sec. Gates said anything yet?

If Gates was worth anything he wouldn’t be Obama’s Sec of Def.

163 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:41:08am
164 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:41:30am

re: #144 realwest

I’d bet a TON of money that he ain’t in Pakistan anymore. Remember, when he led Pakistan there were some 14 assassination attempts on him.
One of Bushes biggest blunders was to not support Mushareef, IMO.

The way I remember things, the more visible support Bush gave Musharraf, the more unpopular he became.
Then, ‘encouraging words’ were said about one of the next possible leader — the woman (Bhuto?) who promptly got assassinated. She was allegedly quite pro-American.

Game over at that point.

165 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:41:37am

re: #150 Big Print

If Pakistan folds, how do we supply our troops in Afghanistan?

I’m sure Iran or Russia would prove helpful.

166 Lightspeed  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:41:48am

No need to panic. I am sure that these are the “moderate” Taliban that Prince Obama has been so keen to make friends with. It was clearly the United States that provoked these peaceful shepherds of Islam into violence. Obama should apologize to them immediately!

/end sarcasm

167 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:42:03am

re: #143 taxfreekiller

But do you not understand, they are taking the county over on foot, (no cars, truck, or tanks), and will use less CO2 after the take over, cause they will “final solution” 50% of the CO2 emitters in Pakistan.

Its all ok with the commie left loons of our current leadership.

And just in time for Earth Day and Earth Week… Wow…

168 realwest  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:42:12am

re: #139 jcm
“We provided assistance and funding to Pakistan for nuclear security.

That means we have detail knowledge on location, systems and procedures.

It also means we have an exfiltration plan.”
Huh, not necessarily. Please see my #119.

169 alegrias  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:42:21am

Talibanized GITMO people are coming to my city of 140,000
and our democrat City Council last night only talked about building a new Arts Center & how to impose additional taxes and user fees to enlarge their bureaucracy to “serve” the huge public housing sector which ACORN already controls.

Plus our democrat city council managed to blame & Bash Bush while talking about their rat & trash problems.

Alexandria, VA has a city council election May 5, please help us depose these clueless moonbats.

170 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:42:22am
171 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:42:27am

re: #136 Kenneth

I’ve been reading The Long War Journal for years now. Bill Roggio has written in the Al Qaeda-Taliban nexus.

Thanks! I like Bill’s writing… I’ve seen him around. I’ll check out the journal ….

172 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:42:59am

re: #126 Land Shark

This is the worst possible news. Those Taliban sickos getting a hold of Pakistan’s nukes is a real nightmare scenario, I imagine India’s military is on the highest alert as they monitor this.

This will be a real test for our Teleprompter In Chief, far beyond pirates holding hostages. I hope and pray he’s getting good advice, but I can’t help feeling dread at the realization of who’s running our country. If the Taliban succeed, the world just a got a whole lot more dangerous.

Pakistan and soon Iran. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a good time to pray…

they chop people’s heads off. they don’t know the constraints of civilization.
we do. and that could be our biggest problem. what they do is so unthinkable
it is so hard to imagine human beings this savage.

173 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:43:01am

re: #162 Opinionated

If Gates was worth anything he wouldn’t be Obama’s Sec of Def.

With I could upding you over and over again

174 Adrenalyn  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:43:10am

anyone think India will just nuke them if the Taliban take over ?

they’re closer than we are and more at risk

175 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:43:19am

re: #170 buzzsawmonkey

Hey, Barry—send ‘em DVDs.

Make sure they’re the correct region code.

176 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:43:25am

re: #162 Opinionated

If Gates was worth anything he wouldn’t be Obama’s Sec of Def.

When he blocked shipment of bunker busters to Israel (under the Bush administration), I knew he wasn’t good.

177 realwest  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:43:50am

re: #141 Guanxi88
Destroy in place is no longer an option. Please see my
#119 above.

178 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:03am

re: #165 Kenneth

I’m sure Iran or Russia would prove helpful.

We will declare victory and withdraw. It’s a favorite Liberal tactic

179 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:06am

re: #174 Adrenalyn

anyone think India will just nuke them if the Taliban take over ?

they’re closer than we are and more at risk

I don’t know about nukes, but I could see airstrikes at the very least.

180 Adrenalyn  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:20am

re: #162 Opinionated

If Gates was worth anything he wouldn’t be Obama’s Sec of Def.


he is warming the seat for Jon Carry, soon as they have the 60 seat majority and have finished shredding his military records

181 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:20am
182 calcajun  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:26am

re: #150 Big Print

If Pakistan folds, how do we supply our troops in Afghanistan?

We don’t—except by air.

183 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:29am

re: #170 buzzsawmonkey

Hey, Barry—send ‘em DVDs.

GMTA!

Maybe he could send them DVDs that won GLAAD awards. The Taliban would really appreciate that.

184 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #104 That’s Mr. President to you

Damn, you’re good.

185 UberInfidel67  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:44:57am

re: #174 Adrenalyn I wouldn’t have any problem with that. SOMEBODY out there has to say “enuff”! and it sure as hell doesn’t look like the US is the one to do it. Ahhh the good old days when the US said something….and really meant it.

/pining

186 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:45:01am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another big question, what will India’s response be to this?

China is another big question mark.

187 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:45:06am

Looks Porter Goss is pushing back hard against the leftists who want to hang the CIA out to dry. Seems that Pelosi and others say that they weren’t informed that interrogations might include certain techniques. Goss says that they were not only discussed, but those present, including Pelosi, wondered if it was enough.

And guess who is supporting Goss and this particular revelation. Excitable Andy Sullivan.

188 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:45:12am
189 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:45:13am

re: #161 Ward Cleaver

I remember that “doomsday clock” bullshit. And The Day After.

/nuking lawrence, kansas?

I was there when they filmed it. A fair number of KU students were extras in it. That was back in the days when the nutters were the public face of the democrat party for most Kansans, and when the two GOP senators from KS were Bob Dole and Nancy Landon Kassebaum.

Now?

Thanks, fundamentalist creationists.

190 Opinionated  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:45:17am

Obama: World must ‘never again’ permit atrocities like the Shoah

Which is why he is palling around with Chavez- who has unleashed anti Semitic goons on the Jews of Venezuela -and is soft on Iran.

191 Big Print  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:45:42am

re: #155 Nevergiveup

Yes, it was a rhetorical queston. But one that hardly anybody seems to be thinking about.

192 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:46:12am

re: #186 SixDegrees

China is another big question mark.

True.

193 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:46:25am

re: #162 Opinionated

I think that’s quite unfair. Gen. Gates was one of the few top generals to support Petraeus’ surge strategy in Iraq. Gates stayed on because he is a patriotic American who has served his country all his life. Obama, despite his campaign rhetoric to the contrary, has not deviated from the war strategy Bush developed in the last 2 years of his presidency. If Obama did plan to change course, Gates would have resigned.

Maybe that’s the reason Obama is green-lighting the torture prosecutions, to throw red meat to his leftist base, while carrying on with the war as Bush did.

194 That's Mr. President to you  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:46:29am

re: #149 buzzsawmonkey

Being a process server in Pakistan is not a sought-after job.

Fortunately, I have authorized the DOD to form a new branch of the Army - the Special Process Forces. As we turn to using courts to combat terrorism and piracy, our brave men and women in the SPF will be trained on how to provide service of process on the world’s worst criminals. People like Osama Bin Laden, Dick Cheney and Simon Cowell.

And to demonstrate our moral resolve, these men and women will do this work unarmed. For protection they will carry pictures of me and other amulets (or Omulets) to protect them.

195 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:46:29am

re: #190 Opinionated

Obama: World must ‘never again’ permit atrocities like the Shoah

Which is why he is palling around with Chavez- who has unleashed anti Semitic goons on the Jews of Venezuela -and is soft on Iran.

Because he talks out of his ass.

196 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:46:35am
197 Idle Drifter  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:46:45am

re: #139 jcm

We provided assistance and funding to Pakistan for nuclear security.

That means we have detail knowledge on location, systems and procedures.

It also means we have an exfiltration plan.

Question is will we execute? The outrage, slings of arrows of invading Pakistan, extracting the nucs is preferable to letting the Taliban have them.

We may have the option of sabotage or even air strikes to help neutralize the nukes should we get kicked out of Pakistan but those options don’t guarantee to render the nukes useless or Pakistan won’t build new ones. India has more concerns over a nuclear equipped Taliban in control of Pakistan and may engage in a first strike with or without a ground offensive. India may also look to the US and/or Israel for anti-ballistic missile technology to help minimize the threat.

198 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:46:54am

re: #177 realwest

Destroy in place is no longer an option. Please see my
#119 above.

Hadn’t considered that, but were I Pak leadership at the time, I’d exercise just that option. Very well, then, assuming no actionable intel on probable storage sites is available, I guess one would take a shotgun approach: hit every likely site or facility as hard and as fast as you can, and keep a few rounds left in the magazine for any follow-up.

199 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:47:01am

i would rather have mccain/palin dealing w/ this right now.

200 Adrenalyn  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:47:11am

anyone like to wager that if the Taliban take over
Osama shows his face on live TV ?

201 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:47:23am

re: #187 lawhawk

Looks Porter Goss is pushing back hard against the leftists who want to hang the CIA out to dry. Seems that Pelosi and others say that they weren’t informed that interrogations might include certain techniques. Goss says that they were not only discussed, but those present, including Pelosi, wondered if it was enough.

And guess who is supporting Goss and this particular revelation. Excitable Andy Sullivan.

This is going to blow up in the Dems’ faces.

202 realwest  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:47:38am

re: #148 Ward Cleaver
He did indeed take a ton of shit for helping us; when Mushareef was in power, we KNEW where Pakistan’s nukes and missiles were - a deal we cut to assuage India’s fears. Then we abandoned Mushareef, CANDIDATE Obama was talking about INVADING Pakistan and so the Pakistani’s moved most of their nuclear aresenal AND their missiles to locations mostly unknown to us.
Something else to thank President Genius for.

203 UberInfidel67  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:47:43am

re: #190 Opinionated
How can you tell when Obi is lying?

When his butt jiggles…..since he’s always talking out of his ass.

204 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:03am

re: #200 Adrenalyn

anyone like to wager that if the Taliban take over
Osama shows his face on live TV ?

Assuming he’s still alive.

205 Mithrax  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:05am

re: #200 Adrenalyn

anyone like to wager that if the Taliban take over
Osama shows his face on live TV ?

No, but I bet Mullah Omar will.

206 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:22am
207 Opinionated  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:23am

re: #173 Nevergiveup

With I could upding you over and over again

Ask Charles to start working on that perpetual upding widget. ;-)

208 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:38am

re: #200 Adrenalyn

anyone like to wager that if the Taliban take over
Osama shows his face on live TV ?

Personally, I think if that happens Osama will be propped up beside the jukebox with his boots filled with sand.

209 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:46am

re: #191 Big Print

Yes, it was a rhetorical queston. But one that hardly anybody seems to be thinking about.

Because we all know Obama and the Dems do not have the principals, intestinal fortitude, or balls to do what is needed. We will declare victory or guilt as buzzsawmonkey says, and withdraw. it will be easy to supply the troops in NC, CA, and Texas.

210 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:47am

re: #199 nyc redneck

i would rather have mccain/palin dealing w/ this right now.

I’d rather have Megan McCain & Bristol Palin dealing with this right now.

211 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:53am

re: #202 realwest

He did indeed take a ton of shit for helping us; when Mushareef was in power, we KNEW where Pakistan’s nukes and missiles were - a deal we cut to assuage India’s fears. Then we abandoned Mushareef, CANDIDATE Obama was talking about INVADING Pakistan and so the Pakistani’s moved most of their nuclear aresenal AND their missiles to locations mostly unknown to us.
Something else to thank President Genius for.

Yep, what a dumbass Obama is. He makes Carter look like a genius.

212 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:48:53am

re: #160 funky chicken

It also means that the Chinese likely know where they are too. The Chinese are a lot closer than we are, and they certainly don’t want an India/Pakistan nuke fest on their border.

Actually, the Red Chinese would probably consider it a positive development if India was involved in a nuclear exchange with the Pak’s. India is their main competitor and developing at a faster rate.

213 El matamoros  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:49:21am

I’ve been giving this a lot of thought and i believe that India and the US have contingency plans. (THEY BETTER!) The plain fact is I dont think that those who actually control the Nukes will allow for themselves to lose power. If an “Iranian style” Revolution happens in Pakistan the “downfallen” leaders will probably request that India and the US either remove the Nukes or allow India to invade. I HIGHLY DOUBT they would let India invade but it might anyway. Securing the nukes would be easy if their location was given to the US by the leaders who are about to become exiles. A lot of the so called “moderates” who speak out against the US and India have always said “look at the Pakistan election results! the Islamists rarely get more than 1% of the vote, we’re in no danger.” But any fool knows that Imans and the talibans always tell their followers to avoid voting because they consider secular democracy to be evil and participating in it to be a sin. No one really knows their support level, they’ll only find out when they show up with Kalashnikovs stuffed in their face.

214 jcm  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:49:23am

re: #168 realwest

“We provided assistance and funding to Pakistan for nuclear security.

That means we have detail knowledge on location, systems and procedures.

It also means we have an exfiltration plan.”
Huh, not necessarily. Please see my #119.

Possible, however nucs need special storage and maintenance facilities aside from the security. Would they have more than one location? Could be, but also means they would be just anywhere, not if they wanted them to reliably work.

215 joncelli  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:49:31am

re: #169 alegrias

I’m sorry to say that Alexandria, while a lovely town, is moonbat central. I’m afraid you’re stuck with the city council you’ve got.

216 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:49:36am

re: #207 Opinionated

Ask Charles to start working on that perpetual upding widget. ;-)

It should be represented by a Viagra tablet.

217 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:49:38am

re: #139 jcm

We provided assistance and funding to Pakistan for nuclear security.

That means we have detail knowledge on location, systems and procedures.

It also means we have an exfiltration plan.

Question is will we execute? The outrage, slings of arrows of invading Pakistan, extracting the nucs is preferable to letting the Taliban have them.

I’m not sure it means any of that, unfortunately. I really hope it does, but all I’ve ever heard is that we received assurance from Pakistan that it’s warheads were disassembled into two separate pieces that were stored at different locations. Although I wouldn’t want the locations made public, it isn’t at all clear to me that we know where they are located, or if the story we were told is even true.

218 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:49:40am

re: #193 Kenneth

I think that’s quite unfair. Gen. Gates was one of the few top generals to support Petraeus’ surge strategy in Iraq. Gates stayed on because he is a patriotic American who has served his country all his life. Obama, despite his campaign rhetoric to the contrary, has not deviated from the war strategy Bush developed in the last 2 years of his presidency. If Obama did plan to change course, Gates would have resigned.

Maybe that’s the reason Obama is green-lighting the torture prosecutions, to throw red meat to his leftist base, while carrying on with the war as Bush did.

Well Gates ain’t no General, but that aside, I don’t trust a man who can serve 2 masters?

219 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:50:11am

re: #181 Iron Fist

Not even that good, IIRC. They can hit most of India, but not much further. An ICBM is out of the question. A cargo container on a ship out of a port in the Persian Gulf, OTOH…

Didn’t Iran actually manage to get something to orbit?
Much easier to get something on a boat, but once it’s in orbit, it can fall anywhere…

220 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #206 buzzsawmonkey

Agreed.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:50:21am

re: #156 buzzsawmonkey

Oppressed neo-colonialist revolutionary people would never use a nuclear device in anger against the West.

/can I get my tenure now?

No. They’re post-colonialist, you revisionist reactionary, and if they did use a nuclear device, it would be a valid form of self-defense against centuries of oppression.

No tenure for you. Back of the line!

///

222 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:50:24am

re: #194 That’s Mr. President to you

why don’t you go to paw-kee-stawn and greet the taliban personally w/ a
fist bump, a hug and a few pats on the back. really connect. and then ask them to play nice.
you could do it, mr. totus. don’t forget a gift. maybe videos of you reading the
teleprompter. that will work in their tents.

223 Mad Mullah  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:50:34am

According to numerous polls, tens of millions of people in Pakistan love Bin Laden, and the Taliban does have the support of quite a few Pakistanis, including some in the ISI. There are also tons of Maddrassa schools in Pakistan where they are training and brainswashing future generations of terrorists, fundamentalists and psycho killers. Pakistan is no friend of the US, and they’ve done little to wipe out the terrorists in their midst, even though the US has foolishly provided them with plenty of funds. The whole country is a breeding ground for Islamic extremism and Pakistanis have been engaging in terror attacks all over the world.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one day the west will be directly engaged in a war with Pakistan, and it probably wouldn’t be a day too soon if you ask me. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse. And coddling up to terrorists is a failed tactic, they only understand one language.

224 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:50:40am

Well, I will say this much, we live in very interesting times.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:50:40am

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

No. They’re post-colonialist, you revisionist reactionary, and if they did use a nuclear device, it would be a valid form of self-defense against centuries of oppression.

No tenure for you. Back of the line!

///


Also, they’re indigenous.

226 abolitionist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:51:09am

Slightly off topic, but I’d like to offer a bit of perspective on the proximity of the Taliban to Islamabad.

On April 2, 1865, General Lee evacuated Richmond, the Confederate capital, and headed west to join with other forces.

On April 9, 1865, Lee sat down with Grant at Appomattox.

Distance? About 90 miles.

227 joncelli  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:51:22am

re: #182 calcajun

The non-lethal stuff can go by sea to India, then to Tajikstan. The military equipment can only go by C-5/C-17.

228 Walahi  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:51:35am

Everyone ignored that the Pashtuns were allowing Taliban refuge back in 2001 when Afghanistan was first invaded.

Everyone ignored the facts that the ISI pretty much allowed the Taliban a freehold in Wazirstan

Everyone ignored that Musharraf was ousted from power, Bhutto was shot and the man who eventually took power did so with Islamist blessing

Nobody seemed to mind that Pakistan let the convicted nuclear scientist who was selling secrets out of house arrest.

Everyone kinda shrugged off Mumbai as a ‘what-can-you-do?’ moment and failed to address that India’s neighbour has a huge problem.

Pakistan will fall to these scumbags and everyone will treat it as Pakistan’s ‘domestic unrest’. The fact that Indian elections have been terrorised gets little to no attention from world media. Nope, it’s all honkey dorey to blame any Islamic strife on Bush. Yep, George Bush and the War on Terror (if we hadn’t treated them so bad, then there would be no violence sort of reasoning)

I guess that was the short-coming of the WoT, we failed to name the opponent accurately. It wasn’t just Al-Qaeda or terror tactics. The enemy is an uncompromising, global-vision Islam. The kind of Islam that other Muslims are scared of but don’t say since they are scared of looking like non-believers. It’s vicious in its violence, it doesn’t compromise, it doesn’t resect anyone or anything except itself and most of all it doesn’t give up. It will go to the last man. As long as someone out there believes in it and organises with others, it is a threat.

I would like to trust that our leaders will keep us safe. But given my rough timeline above, it seems that it hasn’t warranted any strong public action other than expressed concern. I acknowldge that we don’t know what happens behind closed doors. I would really like to trust that the world leaders know what they are doing…

229 realwest  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:51:42am

re: #160 funky chicken

It also means that the Chinese likely know where they are too. The Chinese are a lot closer than we are, and they certainly don’t want an India/Pakistan nuke fest on their border.

Excellent observation. And don’t forget that a) the Chinese have numerous treaties with Pakistan (at least one of which is supposed to include China aiding Pakistan if India were to go to war with Pakistan) and b) the Chinese have NO LOVE LOST at all with the Taliban or any Islamic extremists (which, by Chinese definition is almost any Muslim). Things could get complicated really fast over there.

230 Opinionated  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:51:46am

re: #193 Kenneth

I think that’s quite unfair. Gen. Gates was one of the few top generals to support Petraeus’ surge strategy in Iraq. Gates stayed on because he is a patriotic American who has served his country all his life. Obama, despite his campaign rhetoric to the contrary, has not deviated from the war strategy Bush developed in the last 2 years of his presidency. If Obama did plan to change course, Gates would have resigned.

Maybe that’s the reason Obama is green-lighting the torture prosecutions, to throw red meat to his leftist base, while carrying on with the war as Bush did.

Gates is of the realist school of Brent Scowcroft and Zbigniew Brzezinski, who both advised Obama. Gates is their man in the Administration. His and their views are bad news.

231 Ojoe  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:51:55am

Time to post a link to “The Three Conjectures” (Belmont Club)

Conjecture 1: Terrorism has lowered the nuclear threshold

Conjecture 2: Attaining WMDs will destroy Islam

Conjecture 3: The War on Terror is the ‘Golden Hour’ — the final chance

232 That's Mr. President to you  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:52:02am

re: #190 Opinionated

Obama: World must ‘never again’ permit atrocities like the Shoah

Which is why he is palling around with Chavez- who has unleashed anti Semitic goons on the Jews of Venezuela -and is soft on Iran.

Oh - that.

Well you need to learn about Demo-speak. When Democrats say “never again” it means “Can we just forget about this and move on to Socializing the economy, please?”

The one exception is when “never again” is used to describe the actions of a Republican. Then the phrase means “OK - let’s hold a show-trial hearing in congress, appoint a special prosecutor, and keep the story in the news long enough to Socialize the economy.”

233 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:52:15am
234 doppelganglander  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:52:41am

OT: I’ve got an emergency prayer/good thoughts request. My son called this morning and said he’d been experiencing a severe headache, vomiting, and transient numbness on his left side. I told him to get his ass to the emergency room ASAP. He just texted to say he’s awaiting a CAT scan. Please pray for him if you’re so inclined.

235 alegrias  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:52:49am

re: #199 nyc redneck

i would rather have mccain/palin dealing w/ this right now.

* * * *
Did you see democrat Murphy eaked a victory by 365 votes to win your New York 20th District congressional district race?

C’mon, GOP voters, there’s lots to do before 2010.

236 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:52:59am

re: #150 Big Print

If Pakistan folds, how do we supply our troops in Afghanistan?

If Pakistan folds, out position in Afghanistan becomes untenable. We’ll be lucky to get all our troops out, much less their equipment. We’d have to destroy most of it in place.

237 Lincolntf  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:53:07am

I read the article and may have missed a key point. Anyone know what the timeline has been for the Taliban to occupy/take over/infiltrate the surrounding areas mentioned?
I just want know if we are we talking about days, weeks, months or years before the Taliban can be expected to reach Islamabad in force. Also I wonder if the Gov’t will put up a staunch defense, or will enough of the military side with the Taliban to make it a cakewalk?
Scary times to have a rookie in charge.

238 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:53:13am

re: #234 doppelganglander

OT: I’ve got an emergency prayer/good thoughts request. My son called this morning and said he’d been experiencing a severe headache, vomiting, and transient numbness on his left side. I told him to get his ass to the emergency room ASAP. He just texted to say he’s awaiting a CAT scan. Please pray for him if you’re so inclined.

DONE!
Please keep us posted!

239 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:53:31am
240 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:53:46am

re: #218 Nevergiveup

Thank you for the correction. Gates was a career CIA man. Served as CIA director under Bush 1, the Sec Def for Bush 2, & now for Obama 0.

241 Big Print  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:54:04am

re: #196 Iron Fist

Same way we do now. By air. If the worst happens, and Pakistan falls to the Taliban (and it may), they will probably officially tell us we can’t overfly their country anymore. I don’t think there is much in the way of practical that they can do to prevent us from using their airspace.

The stuff that goes bang comes in by air, but food and fuel come in by truck.

242 aggieann  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:54:19am

re: #121 nyc redneck

it is just astounding that so many people are going abt. their civilized business in
civilized places and as we speak, the most brutal primitive savage jihadis are pushing to gain control of lethal weapons that they intend to use in the most devastating ways against the world.

I can’t help but think the same thing. I’m smack dab in the middle of a major university campus and filled with dread to contemplate what awaits the hundreds of young people milling about outside my window right now (listening to a band, playing Frisbee, going to the student union, etc.) that they know nothing about (and I know very little about).

I am reminded of the old adage that “you might not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.”

243 Lightspeed  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:54:40am

re: #234 doppelganglander

OT: I’ve got an emergency prayer/good thoughts request. My son called this morning and said he’d been experiencing a severe headache, vomiting, and transient numbness on his left side. I told him to get his ass to the emergency room ASAP. He just texted to say he’s awaiting a CAT scan. Please pray for him if you’re so inclined.

Yes, of course. He is in good hands.

244 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:54:58am

re: #234 doppelganglander

OT: I’ve got an emergency prayer/good thoughts request. My son called this morning and said he’d been experiencing a severe headache, vomiting, and transient numbness on his left side. I told him to get his ass to the emergency room ASAP. He just texted to say he’s awaiting a CAT scan. Please pray for him if you’re so inclined.

Will do.

245 alegrias  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:55:24am

re: #210 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I’d rather have Megan McCain & Bristol Palin dealing with this right now.

* * *
Bristol Palin is more discreet (& can probably clean & use a sidearm) than the much older, Columbia University/Saturday Night Live intern with a shoe-fetish, celebutaunt Meghan McCain.

246 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:55:53am

re: #234 doppelganglander

OT: I’ve got an emergency prayer/good thoughts request. My son called this morning and said he’d been experiencing a severe headache, vomiting, and transient numbness on his left side. I told him to get his ass to the emergency room ASAP. He just texted to say he’s awaiting a CAT scan. Please pray for him if you’re so inclined.

i’m so sorry top hear this. i hope everything is fine. try not to worry.
i’ll say a prayer for him. {doppelganglander}

247 jcm  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:55:57am

re: #219 Van Helsing

Didn’t Iran actually manage to get something to orbit?
Much easier to get something on a boat, but once it’s in orbit, it can fall anywhere…

Yeah, it’s in orbit, it’s small and light.

You’d need to orbit at least 500kg for nuclear delivery.
The other big piece is getting to come back down where you want it.

248 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:56:12am
249 realwest  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:56:14am

re: #164 jwb7605
LOL! Well two of my closest friends here are from Pakistan (one became a US Citizen about 20 years or so ago) and they tell me it’s good for Pakistan that Bhutto ISN’T running the country cause she’d just loot the treasury - for the THIRD TIME - and now that her husband and son are more or less in control, THEY’RE LOOTING the treasury as fast as they can!
But I will say, as much as both of them criticize their governments, each was VERY FUCKING ANGRY when Obama said he’d invade Pakistan (while he was campaigning) - something about Pakistan wanting to protect it’s sovereignty or something silly like that!

250 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:56:21am

re: #240 Kenneth

Thank you for the correction. Gates was a career CIA man. Served as CIA director under Bush 1, the Sec Def for Bush 2, & now for Obama 0.

I don’t like Gates for a lot of reasons. I never did. I believe he is a bureaucrat. Which is why he can rationalize serving Obama. I don’t want to demonize him, but he isn’t my cup of tea.

251 Land Shark  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:56:46am

re: #199 nyc redneck

Yep, I’d feel better if John McCain were President now. Or George W Bush. Or Bill Clinton. Or any other President we’ve had except the current one and Carter.

252 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:57:11am

re: #241 Big Print

The stuff that goes bang comes in by air, but food and fuel come in by truck.

Yes, I’d hate to think of how untenable would it b were the staples (beans and boots, food and fuel) to have to come by air. Air-lift capacity is necessarily limited, and there have been, so far as I can tell, maybe only one case (Vietnam, Khe Sanh, I think it was) where aerial resupply of a smallish unit worked over the long term. Resupply of units in the numbers we have in Afghanistan would be all but impossible.

253 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:57:26am
254 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:57:59am

re: #247 jcm

And if you really don’t care as long as it’s somewhere along 2000 miles of longitude?

255 Arrr  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:58:18am

If Pakistan does collapse, I’m sure we have safeguards against nukes falling into the wrong hands. Things aren’t as simple as pushing a big red button, and even if the ISI gained full control of Pakistan’s government (highly unlikely) we could take them out before they had a chance to reconfigure and launch.

Also, Pakistan’s nukes are massive and cumbersome and could be easily spotted if they moved without being disassembled.

Disassembling a nuclear warhead and then reassembling it in a position where it could be used against any of their intended targets is not something al-Qaeda or the ISI are capable of, unless half of al-Qaeda consists of Islamist Oppenheimers, and even then you’d need the full coordination of a large and functional state - and Pakistan in such a situation would not be functional by any definition.

China, India, and the US would intervene and neutralize whatever possible nuclear threat there could be.

There is, however, a very good chance of Pakistan collapsing, and far more people would probably be killed as a result of a Somaliized Pakistan than any relatively miniscule Pakistani nuke could ever do.

In addition to the slaughter that would happen among Pakistanis, you’d have a US-led Afghan invasion from the north, an Indian invasion from the south, and and a Chinese invasion from the northeast. Iran may get in on the action as well.

Not a pretty picture.

256 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:58:19am

PakTribune: Pakistan’s cancer

The people of Pakistan, regardless of the nauseating celebrations by the supporters of this deal, should recognise what the government has done; the Nizam-e Adl is proving to be nothing more than a document of surrender. We must prepare ourselves for the fight; as the government will not be able to tolerate the Taliban’s mischief for longer. And this time, we must not be fooled by their offers of ‘peace talks’.

257 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:58:19am

re: #253 buzzsawmonkey

I’d settle for an inanimate carbon rod.

Hell I would settle for the Swedish Chef right about now!

258 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:58:47am

re: #234 doppelganglander

OT: I’ve got an emergency prayer/good thoughts request. My son called this morning and said he’d been experiencing a severe headache, vomiting, and transient numbness on his left side. I told him to get his ass to the emergency room ASAP. He just texted to say he’s awaiting a CAT scan. Please pray for him if you’re so inclined.

I just took the liberty of emailing the comment-link to Goddess.

You and your son have my prayers.

259 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:59:10am

re: #202 realwest

Obama did not say he wanted to invade Pakistan. He said he would authorize US troops to cross the border from Af’tan into Pakistan if they were in hot pursuit of Taliban or Al Qaeda.

Do you have a link or report about Pakistan moving their nukes in response to Obama’s statements?

That aside, your point about the location & security of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is valid. And frightening. The Pakistan intelligence service is riddled with pro-AQ agents. Some of the military is also pro-AQ, while some are old school nationalists (and still Muslim). It would seem an impossible task to build a security force assigned to protect & control Pakistan’s nuclear weapons. Who can you trust?

260 alegrias  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:59:48am

re: #215 joncelli

I’m sorry to say that Alexandria, while a lovely town, is moonbat central. I’m afraid you’re stuck with the city council you’ve got.

* * * *
NO. Never give up against their apparatchik apparatus.

We have many unemployed who who just may finally get upset with our elected moonbats burning through our tax dollars on niceties, while we taxpayers lose our bread & butter jobs.

261 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:59:57am
262 doppelganglander  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:00:27am

reine, buzzsawmonkey, Ward, nycredneck, Lightspeed, et al.: You have no idea how much you and all the lizard minions mean to me. I’ll let you know as soon as I hear anything.

263 jcm  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:00:30am

re: #254 Van Helsing

And if you really don’t care as long as it’s somewhere along 2000 miles of longitude?

Grim LOL!

Aide: Mullah, Mullah we succesfully nuked the USA!
Mullah :What did we hit?
Aide: Some place called Trinity!

264 doppelganglander  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:01:00am

re: #258 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I just took the liberty of emailing the comment-link to Goddess.

You and your son have my prayers.

Thank you.

265 Adrenalyn  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:01:11am

re: #255 Arrr

If Pakistan does collapse, I’m sure we have safeguards against nukes falling into the wrong hands. Things aren’t as simple as pushing a big red button, and even if the ISI gained full control of Pakistan’s government (highly unlikely) we could take them out before they had a chance to reconfigure and launch.

Also, Pakistan’s nukes are massive and cumbersome and could be easily spotted if they moved without being disassembled.

Disassembling a nuclear warhead and then reassembling it in a position where it could be used against any of their intended targets is not something al-Qaeda or the ISI are capable of, unless half of al-Qaeda consists of Islamist Oppenheimers, and even then you’d need the full coordination of a large and functional state - and Pakistan in such a situation would not be functional by any definition.

China, India, and the US would intervene and neutralize whatever possible nuclear threat there could be.

There is, however, a very good chance of Pakistan collapsing, and far more people would probably be killed as a result of a Somaliized Pakistan than any relatively miniscule Pakistani nuke could ever do.

In addition to the slaughter that would happen among Pakistanis, you’d have a US-led Afghan invasion from the north, an Indian invasion from the south, and and a Chinese invasion from the northeast. Iran may get in on the action as well.

Not a pretty picture.

even if they could not trigger critical mass
they’d make a deadly dirty bomb
just set off with C4 in a container

266 That's Mr. President to you  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:01:58am

re: #129 Kosh’s Shadow

Mr. President, and I mean this nicely, do you ever think that you might happen to be where they decide to set off a nuke? I know you don’t think they’d want to nuke you, but they might get it all set up and turned on before they know you’re within the blast radius.

Wow.

That is just too difficult to contemplate. You have confronted me with a situation where I might come to harm despite the fact that everyone loves me.

Hmmmm…..

Oh well - not much I can do about it.

So let’s get back to talking about how wonderful I am.

267 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:02:04am

re: #223 Mad Mullah

According to numerous polls, tens of millions of people in Pakistan love Bin Laden, and the Taliban does have the support of quite a few Pakistanis, including some in the ISI. There are also tons of Maddrassa schools in Pakistan where they are training and brainswashing future generations of terrorists, fundamentalists and psycho killers. Pakistan is no friend of the US, and they’ve done little to wipe out the terrorists in their midst, even though the US has foolishly provided them with plenty of funds. The whole country is a breeding ground for Islamic extremism and Pakistanis have been engaging in terror attacks all over the world.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one day the west will be directly engaged in a war with Pakistan, and it probably wouldn’t be a day too soon if you ask me. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse. And coddling up to terrorists is a failed tactic, they only understand one language.

Pakistan has a population of around 180 million.

I would really, really rather not find ourselves in a war there.

268 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:02:12am

re: #255 Arrr


Actually I believe (I could be wrong, but this is what I was told) that Pakistan’s nukes were stored as components, not as assembled weapons. They could be moved easily around without being spotted. They also have an excess of nuclear engineers in that country. And I am sure the Taliban know each and every one of them.

I believe that at least some of them were moved after Obamas statement that he was going to invade Pakistan during the election.

269 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:02:33am

re: #231 Ojoe

An old one, but a good one! Excellent time to link it!

270 Adrenalyn  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:02:36am

re: #262 doppelganglander

reine, buzzsawmonkey, Ward, nycredneck, Lightspeed, et al.: You have no idea how much you and all the lizard minions mean to me. I’ll let you know as soon as I hear anything.

if you can, go be with him and make sure they act
I have had to do that with family members over the years and it can make a difference in care

271 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:03:02am

re: #251 Land Shark

Yep, I’d feel better if John McCain were President now. Or George W Bush. Or Bill Clinton. Or any other President we’ve had except the current one and Carter.


i’d rather have gomer pyle or barney fife as potus.

272 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:04:37am
273 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:05:23am

re: #245 alegrias

* * *
Bristol Palin is more discreet (& can probably clean & use a sidearm) than the much older, Columbia University/Saturday Night Live intern with a shoe-fetish, celebutaunt Meghan McCain.

On the other hand, Bristol has an infant at home, and has probably had enough of being in the eyes of the world for a while.

274 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:05:25am

re: #261 Iron Fist

And sadly, I must agree with all of that.
Not pretty. Not pretty at all.

275 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:05:31am
276 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:06:19am

re: #261 Iron Fist

I think Iran has claimed they’ve gotten something into orbit. I’m not sure that they have gotten something into orbit. Iran has missiles that, if they work, can hit Israel. Whether they could take pakistani warheads and mount them on them is anybody’s guess. We probably wouldn’t know the answer to that until after it had already happened.

Certainly time appears to be running out in that part of Asia very quickly. I don’t think our digital Messiah has even the remotest idea about what to do about it.

If they don’t have something in orbit, then what is this that’s being tracked?

277 jorline  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:06:51am

Remember this Obama speech from August 8, 2007?

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, adopting a tough tone after a chief rival accused him of naivete in foreign policy.

Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.



Tough talk on Pakistan from Obama

Waffles?

278 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:07:32am

re: #262 doppelganglander

reine, buzzsawmonkey, Ward, nycredneck, Lightspeed, et al.: You have no idea how much you and all the lizard minions mean to me. I’ll let you know as soon as I hear anything.

No problem. Time is of the essence in situations like this - I’m glad he’s not wasting time getting a scan.

279 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:07:53am
280 nyc redneck  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:08:16am

re: #275 buzzsawmonkey

Shazam-wow!

gomer was in the military and barney was in law enforcement.
they could handle it. better than o.
:)

281 doppelganglander  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:08:21am

re: #270 Adrenalyn

if you can, go be with him and make sure they act
I have had to do that with family members over the years and it can make a difference in care

He is in Maryland and we are in Georgia. I know he’s in good hands because it’s a military medical facility. If he doesn’t get a clean bill of health by the end of the day, I will be driving up there first thing in the morning.

282 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:08:56am

re: #281 doppelganglander

Prayers going out for you…

283 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:09:03am

re: #275 buzzsawmonkey

Shazam-wow!

Now that you mention it, I would rather have Vince, the Sham-Wow guy, as President.

284 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:09:07am

re: #151 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Remember back when the nuclear club was limited to 5 or 6 rational countries (and France) - we were “2 minutes from midnight” & we were forced to watch (at least I was) absurd agitprop like “The Day After”? Now, to paraphrase Mark Steyn, anyone with an Islamabad Yellow Pages can get a nuke together, no one seems to care?

A significant chunk of our population has no living memory of the Cold War, and a big chunk of those that do, think it was all Reagan-era Republican propaganda.

Personally, I got a good look at the East German border when I was very young, and I grew up in a household that was shaped by WW2 and the Cold War at the roots. My father was a full generation older than most kid’s dads, and I ended up with a different perspective on a lot of things. I don’t remember NOT feeling alienated from my peers - LOL.

A couple of years ago I flew home to the northeast to visit family, and when I got into baggage claim in Logan the first thing I saw in the crowd was some silly-ass college kid wearing a hammer and sickle t-shirt. I’m not the kind of guy to start fights in a public place (I’m bad at confrontation), but I gave serious consideration to getting in his face, and for me, that’s a big deal…

285 Barry the Baptist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:09:14am

Quick! Someone call Ban Ki Moon! He’ll get right on it and come up with a good solution!

/sarc

286 Walahi  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:09:30am

re: #281 doppelganglander

I hope that your son is alright…My thoughts are with him

287 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:09:39am

re: #259 Kenneth

Obama did not say he wanted to invade Pakistan. He said he would authorize US troops to cross the border from Af’tan into Pakistan if they were in hot pursuit of Taliban or Al Qaeda.

Do you have a link or report about Pakistan moving their nukes in response to Obama’s statements?

That aside, your point about the location & security of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is valid. And frightening. The Pakistan intelligence service is riddled with pro-AQ agents. Some of the military is also pro-AQ, while some are old school nationalists (and still Muslim). It would seem an impossible task to build a security force assigned to protect & control Pakistan’s nuclear weapons. Who can you trust?

Obama willing to invade Pakistan in al-Qaeda hunt

Obama Says He Would Take Fight To Pakistan
While you are technically correct, the above links are what the headlines read — and that’s what people remember.

288 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:09:41am
289 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:09:44am
290 Ojoe  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:11:05am

re: #269 Kenneth

Thanks.

BBL

291 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:12:37am

Being the physicist that I am, I have to ask, worst case scenario, the Talis take the Pakistani capital, what happens to the nuclear secrets? Someone like Kahn would possibly be happy to see the Talis with nukes.

Does anyone here have any info from anyplace about the state, disposition and or security of the Pakis nuclear goodies?

Not to put a bummer on anyone’s already gloomy day with this, but the idea of with Jihadis with atomics causes my stomach to flip.

292 Captain Jack  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:12:43am

Islamists in charge of nukes! As they say, what could possibly go wrong! I think Americas big problem is that Obama assumes that the Islamists in countries such as Iran are rational and can be contained like the USSR. This will be our undoing. Russia is happy to help Iran with their nuke program because they know that if one gets handed off to terrorists that it will probably end up in the US. I am sure Russia and China would be happy to take advantage of the economic and therefore military weakness the US will experience with a terrorist nuclear strike. I really hope Obama does not actually believe we all live in a “community of nations” that wants only good will and the general advancement of humanity. Until the US came along as a superpower if one country thought it could take over another without pyrrhic losses, it would. The way of the world has not changed only our soft heads.

293 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:13:33am

re: #226 abolitionist

Slightly off topic, but I’d like to offer a bit of perspective on the proximity of the Taliban to Islamabad.

On April 2, 1865, General Lee evacuated Richmond, the Confederate capital, and headed west to join with other forces.

On April 9, 1865, Lee sat down with Grant at Appomattox.

Distance? About 90 miles.

Where did the confederates hide the nukes? /

294 calcajun  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:13:51am

re: #224 Honorary Yooper

Well, I will say this much, we live in very interesting times.

Do tell.

295 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:14:30am

re: #293 DaddyG

Where did the confederates hide the nukes? /

We hid them at Gettysburg. And you all thought we lost that one!

296 Athos  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:14:31am

With a renewed focus on Afghanistan, it may be a fundamental strategic decision by the islamofascists in the ISI, Taliban, AQ, and other groups to focus on taking over Pakistan as opposed to wasting efforts against US / Western forces in Afghanistan. The prize if Pakistan falls is not only a state from within which to propigate islamofascism, but also the opportunity to obtain nuclear weaponry. The question on this will come down to how / where the safeguards are in place and with whom.

Despite the rhetoric, the US and Western nations have limited options in terms of projecting significant force into Pakistan unless the will appears to use airpower in what is all but a Pakistani civil war. The wild cards here are India and China. What will they do and whom will they draw a line in the sand against?

297 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:14:35am
298 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:14:40am

re: #224 Honorary Yooper

Well, I will say this much, we live in very interesting times.

That was a curse you know…

299 calcajun  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:15:06am

re: #257 JohnnyReb

Hell I would settle for the Swedish Chef right about now!

Borg borg borg!

300 Nevergiveup  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:15:33am

re: #293 DaddyG

Where did the confederates hide the nukes? /

The British took them back to England like the Russians took Saddam’s.

301 jorline  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:15:36am

re: #279 buzzsawmonkey

He’s backing and filling on his pledge not to prosecute Bush Administration personnel. Why wouldn’t he back and fill on this?

Agree…PBO will learn the hard way…”Baptism By Fire”. He can’t shelter himself like he did while campaigning.

302 Van Helsing  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:15:39am

re: #284 Pawn of the Oppressor

I am one to get in someone’s face when they express cosmic levels of stupid.

Sadly one or two those is what will keep me from ever running for office.

303 Mad Mullah  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:15:45am

re: #267 SixDegrees

Pakistan has a population of around 180 million.

I would really, really rather not find ourselves in a war there.

Yes, 180 million translates into a whole lot of crazies since Islamic terrorists do have a significant amount of support and admirers in that country.

If a war can be avoided, then that’s great, but if there were ever to be any sort of war, then I am not a big believer of putting many US boots on the ground, and I also do not believe in any “winning the hearts and mind” nonsense. I am a believer in total capitulation.

304 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:16:05am
305 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:16:43am

re: #296 Athos

With a renewed focus on Afghanistan, it may be a fundamental strategic decision by the islamofascists in the ISI, Taliban, AQ, and other groups to focus on taking over Pakistan as opposed to wasting efforts against US / Western forces in Afghanistan. The prize if Pakistan falls is not only a state from within which to propigate islamofascism, but also the opportunity to obtain nuclear weaponry. The question on this will come down to how / where the safeguards are in place and with whom.

Despite the rhetoric, the US and Western nations have limited options in terms of projecting significant force into Pakistan unless the will appears to use airpower in what is all but a Pakistani civil war. The wild cards here are India and China. What will they do and whom will they draw a line in the sand against?

They are also banking on the fact that the US will not send it’s ground troops into a country with a terrorist group in charge of nucelar weapons…

306 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:16:52am

re: #234 doppelganglander Prayers are on their way. Let us know.

307 formercorpsman  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:16:53am

re: #210 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Damn you Beer, I was drinking coffee.

308 calcajun  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:17:06am

re: #190 Opinionated

Obama: World must ‘never again’ permit atrocities like the Shoah

Yeah. We’re kow-towing to people who want to one-up the Nazis.

309 SixDegrees  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:17:08am

re: #299 calcajun

Borg borg borg!

Wait - we’re sending the Borg into Pakistan?

I thought they were busy running Home Depot.

310 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:17:29am

re: #263 jcm

Grim LOL!

Aide: Mullah, Mullah we succesfully nuked the USA!
Mullah :What did we hit?
Aide: Some place called Trinity!

I wouldn’t put it past the Iranians to show pictures of the bomb test at Trinity and say it was their missile that hit it.

311 calcajun  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:18:31am

re: #309 SixDegrees

Wait - we’re sending the Borg into Pakistan?

I thought they were busy running Home Depot.

You’re think Wal-mart…and the State Department.

312 turn  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:18:47am

re: #291 ludwigvanquixote

see Kenneth’s 289, that was a thorough analysis

313 Athos  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:18:51am

re: #289 Kenneth

Securing Pakistan’s Nuclear Weapons Complex

Interesting, but it is rather dated. The CFR has this article on Pakistan’s Nuclear Controls

Since September 2001, the Bush administration has spent almost $100 million on a highly classified program to help Pakistan secure its nuclear arsenal, according to a November 2007 New York Times report. The aid, part of the federal budget, paid for the training of Pakistani personnel in the United States and the construction of a nuclear security training center in Pakistan that is not yet complete.

Media reports also point out that the United States helped Pakistan develop Permissive Action Links (PALs), a protective fail-safe system that the United States uses to guard against accidental or unauthorized launches of nuclear systems. PALs requires a code to be entered before a weapon can be detonated. Pakistan reportedly requires the “standard two-man rule,” that two separate operators enter codes or turn keys to arm and launch nuclear weapons. The Strategic Plans Division has about ten thousand troops to ensure security at nuclear sites.

314 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:18:58am

re: #310 Kosh’s Shadow

I wouldn’t put it past the Iranians to show pictures of the bomb test at Trinity and say it was their missile that hit it.

heh… they’d probably say it was a strike against Christanity since they took out (the) Trinity

315 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:19:07am

re: #304 Iron Fist

Aparently they made it in February. That still leaves the size of the payload in question. Making an ICBM work is a little more complicated than just boosting something to orbit, and then de-orbiting it above the target. You have to be able to miniturize the atomic weapon sufficiently to be able to boost it into orbit, and you have to build one that can survive re-entry. Neither of these is an insurmountable task, but I’m not sure we know how far along on getting that working Iran is. The biggest hurdle is getting enough weapons grade radioactives, but that isn’t the only hurdle.

I’d still bet on the atomic truck-bomb as a likely delivery mechanism. That is something that doesn’t take a lot of aerospace engineering skills.

If El Baredi, several months ago was warning us that Iran could build an atomic within a year, it is very likely that they already have enough fissionable material for at least one bomb.

316 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:19:47am

Well, I haven’t seen any comments or statement directly from Obama, but thank goodness that Hillary is on top of this…

“U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned this week that Pakistan is in danger of falling into terrorist hands because of failed government policies and called on Pakistani citizens and expatriates to voice more concern.

“I don’t hear that kind of outrage and concern coming from enough people that would reverberate back within the highest echelons of the civilian and military leadership of Pakistan,” she said.”

Maybe she could get them to compose a strongly-worded letter to the Taliban?

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

317 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:20:34am

re: #299 calcajun

Borg borg borg!

Resistance is futile.

318 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:20:42am

re: #305 tfc3rid

They are also banking on the fact that the US will not send it’s ground troops into a country with a terrorist group in charge of nucelar weapons…

Then you would not need a delivery device. You would just let the invaders come to you in sufficient numbers, and Boom(s)!

For that very reason we would never send ground troops in.

319 MikeAlv77  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:20:48am

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Not the dreaded strongly worded letter! Is that considered torture?

320 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:21:29am

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Well, I haven’t seen any comments or statement directly from Obama, but thank goodness that Hillary is on top of this…

“U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned this week that Pakistan is in danger of falling into terrorist hands because of failed government policies and called on Pakistani citizens and expatriates to voice more concern.

“I don’t hear that kind of outrage and concern coming from enough people that would reverberate back within the highest echelons of the civilian and military leadership of Pakistan,” she said.”


Because dictatorships always listen to the people, right Hil?

321 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:21:46am

re: #318 JohnnyReb

Then you would not need a delivery device. You would just let the invaders come to you in sufficient numbers, and Boom(s)!

For that very reason we would never send ground troops in.

Which is exactly why we would need to get the terrorists before they attain control of the nuke arsenal…

322 yesandno  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:21:55am

re: #281 doppelganglander

He is in Maryland and we are in Georgia. I know he’s in good hands because it’s a military medical facility. If he doesn’t get a clean bill of health by the end of the day, I will be driving up there first thing in the morning.

Prayers for him and for you….

323 tfc3rid  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:22:14am

re: #320 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Because dictatorships always listen to the people, right Hil?

Well, our government sure isn’t so….

324 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:22:43am

re: #313 Athos

Thanks! I was looking for a more recent report.

325 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:22:43am

re: #312 turn

Thanks it was good!

326 formercorpsman  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:23:17am

re: #234 doppelganglander

Will do. Is he in college?

327 yesandno  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:23:40am

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Well, I haven’t seen any comments or statement directly from Obama, but thank goodness that Hillary is on top of this…

“U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned this week that Pakistan is in danger of falling into terrorist hands because of failed government policies and called on Pakistani citizens and expatriates to voice more concern.

“I don’t hear that kind of outrage and concern coming from enough people that would reverberate back within the highest echelons of the civilian and military leadership of Pakistan,” she said.”

Maybe she could get them to compose a strongly-worded letter to the Taliban?

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

You don’t think that voicing concern will do the trick?

328 Land Shark  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:24:00am

re: #253 buzzsawmonkey

I’d settle for the President’s new Portuguese Water dog. Or Socks the cat. Or one of my cats.

329 splat  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:24:35am

I wonder if the Pakistani Army it up to taking control of the country AGAIN.

The last thing the world needs needs is another Talibanistan, the last one was a disaster for everyone. A nuclear armed one would be really bad for India and that’s just for starters.

-J

330 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:28:10am

re: #216 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

It should be represented by a Viagra tablet.

If your upding lasts longer than 2 hours, see your doctor.

331 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:28:51am
332 Land Shark  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:29:58am

Hey, maybe if Obama apologizes to the Taliban and sends several former Bush Administration officials over there to stand “trial” they’ll unclench their fists. And some DVDs, how about “An Inconvenient Truth” and a collection of Michael Moore movies. Send them a “reset” button too like they did the Russians.

Man, do these Obama people know their foreign policy shit or what?

333 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:30:29am

re: #304 Iron Fist

Aparently they made it in February. That still leaves the size of the payload in question. Making an ICBM work is a little more complicated than just boosting something to orbit, and then de-orbiting it above the target. You have to be able to miniturize the atomic weapon sufficiently to be able to boost it into orbit, and you have to build one that can survive re-entry. Neither of these is an insurmountable task, but I’m not sure we know how far along on getting that working Iran is. The biggest hurdle is getting enough weapons grade radioactives, but that isn’t the only hurdle.

I’d still bet on the atomic truck-bomb as a likely delivery mechanism. That is something that doesn’t take a lot of aerospace engineering skills.

Iran knows, at least in theory, how to make a small enough nuke, and they have Pakistan’s help as well.

334 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:31:14am

re: #332 Land Shark

And bowing. Obama’s got to bow. Make it really convincing too.

335 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:31:38am
336 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:31:40am

re: #328 Land Shark

I’d settle for the President’s new Portuguese Water dog. Or Socks the cat. Or one of my cats.

Or one of your socks.

337 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:32:21am

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Well, I haven’t seen any comments or statement directly from Obama, but thank goodness that Hillary is on top of this…

“U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned this week that Pakistan is in danger of falling into terrorist hands because of failed government policies and called on Pakistani citizens and expatriates to voice more concern.

“I don’t hear that kind of outrage and concern coming from enough people that would reverberate back within the highest echelons of the civilian and military leadership of Pakistan,” she said.”

What is she expecting - Tea Parties?

338 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:34:27am

re: #278 Ward Cleaver

No problem. Time is of the essence in situations like this - I’m glad he’s not wasting time getting a scan.

What I meant was, I’m glad he’s getting a scan right away, and not waiting.

339 gander  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:35:07am

Now the Taliban can NUKE the Buddha statues, ( or what’s left of them).

340 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:35:14am

re: #283 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Now that you mention it, I would rather have Vince, the Sham-Wow guy, as President.

He knows how to deal with hookers, anyway.

341 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:35:39am

re: #335 buzzsawmonkey

For my money, the entire purpose of going into Iraq was to have Iran in a pincer between Iraq and Afghanistan—just as we invaded Italy before the D-Day invasions.

The constant prating by the Democrats about how we should not be in Iraq, and should get out as soon as possible, blunted this strategy years ago.

GMTA.
I had my granddaughter color a map of the Middle East as a geography lesson so she’d know where her uncle was at Operation Iraqi Freedom time.
I gave her 2 colors, and told her one color was for where our Army & Marines were, and for friendly countries, like Israel. The other color was for countries like Iran.

My daughter and wife watched the exercise. I think they learned a bit about strategy and tactics.

342 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:35:40am

re: #337 DaddyG

What is she expecting - Tea Parties?

She has absolutely no friggin clue what to expect. This administration is a laughing stock to the rest of the world. However as they say, the shoe is on the other hand now! Europe, India and China’s governments are literally flipping out right now and they are looking for leadership for a rank armature.

343 boogereatinmoron  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:36:17am

The navy seals have figured out one sure fire method for convincing the jihadis to unclench their fists.

344 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:36:44am

Back when I was in college, my physics buddies and I had a dark joke. The idea was that we would build a self sufficient large space station at one of the L5 points. It would have fusion plants, hydroponic gardens, robot labor, the Lagavulin distillery, large batteries of x-ray lasers, rail guns and mag launched missiles to keep undesirables out and perhaps most importantly the Sweedish bikini team (for me a pair of red-headed Israeli commando babes) and anyone else we thought was cool.

We called it “The Pleasure Planet Playtex.”

As we got older, the joke persisted… We would watch the news from Earth and it would be comedy instead of tragedy because it was happening to someone else.

Older than that, our degrees in hand, we came to realize that if we worked really really hard, and made the Pleasure Planet Playtex technologically possible, we might be allowed on board as the “hired help” to keep it running - and that there would be a large guest wing for the Saudi Royal Family.

Of course, I suggested that me and my Israeli commando girlfriends could take a bunch of Saudis (Hell I actually know how to build nasty laser! Second Amendment eat your heart out!). My best friend (another physicist) reminded me that said Saudis would have American Security provided by the White House.

I am writing this because we are stuck here. We have very scary neighbors and our thumbs in our asses as a nation.

I pray to G-d that Israel successfully takes out Iran’s nuclear capacity before it is too late and the the Pakistanis have the resolve to keep their nation from falling into darkness.

345 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:37:03am

re: #331 Iron Fist

The only reason to think that Iran doesn’t already have atomic weapons is because they haven’t used atomic weapons somewhere. Yet.

We should have invaded Iran two years ago, but the Democrats were too busy trying to bring the Bush Administration down to bother with trivial concerns about national security.

Amen.

346 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:37:51am

re: #335 buzzsawmonkey

The Dem’s backstabbing was a factor, but Rumsfled’s invasion strategy was fatally flawed from the start. He had enough troops to knock over the regime, but no where near enough to control the place. Add to that Paul Bremer’s insane decision to demob the entire Iraqi army at a stroke, and any grand strategy to pressure Iran went up in smoke.

347 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:39:30am

re: #346 Kenneth

The Dem’s backstabbing was a factor, but Rumsfled’s invasion strategy was fatally flawed from the start. He had enough troops to knock over the regime, but no where near enough to control the place. Add to that Paul Bremer’s insane decision to demob the entire Iraqi army at a stroke, and any grand strategy to pressure Iran went up in smoke.

You are spot on. The only way to control the ground is to put soldiers on it. We never sent enough. The surge only worked because we finally did.

348 jwb7605  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:39:38am

re: #346 Kenneth

The Dem’s backstabbing was a factor, but Rumsfled’s invasion strategy was fatally flawed from the start. He had enough troops to knock over the regime, but no where near enough to control the place. Add to that Paul Bremer’s insane decision to demob the entire Iraqi army at a stroke, and any grand strategy to pressure Iran went up in smoke.

I agree with that 50%. Rumsfeld would have looked much better if Turkey hadn’t blocked us. Bremer was a complete disaster.

349 abolitionist  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:41:17am

re: #342 JohnnyReb

a rank armature = spinmeister
;)

350 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:42:00am
351 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:42:58am

re: #348 jwb7605

Can’t blame this on Turkey. Rumsfled could have deployed many more troops, but as soon as he saw the statue of Saddam fall, Rumsfeld ordered troops enroute to be stopped and diverted back home. He of-ramped tens of thousands of troops. Read Cobra II.

352 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:43:11am

re: #350 buzzsawmonkey

Even those things would not have been fatal, had we not operated under rules of engagement which mandated handling the population with kid gloves.

Yes, it’s nice that little kids are now giving flowers to our soldiers. But why the hell did Fallujah have to be taken twice, and why was Mookie El-Sadr left alive both times? Had we gone in with—forgive me for phrasing it this way—an appropriate degree of brutality, i.e., under rules of engagement written by soldiers instead of social workers, Iraq would be better off right now and we would have ourselves poised against Iran.

Also well said. At the end of the day, you have hit the nail on the head about Israel’s problems also.

353 Athos  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:46:30am

re: #350 buzzsawmonkey

One of the messages that demonstrated the lack of will to realistically look at the situation in Iraq on the ground came in the weeks after the collapse of Saddam’s government - and looting was permitted without any real effort to prevent it. The message to those there was that the US / Coalition was unwilling to really mix it up with the people and enforce law and order - preferring to stay hand’s off. This provided encouragement to Mookie and others that they had room with which to operate their own agenda’s.

354 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:49:41am

re: #353 Athos

One of the messages that demonstrated the lack of will to realistically look at the situation in Iraq on the ground came in the weeks after the collapse of Saddam’s government - and looting was permitted without any real effort to prevent it. The message to those there was that the US / Coalition was unwilling to really mix it up with the people and enforce law and order - preferring to stay hand’s off. This provided encouragement to Mookie and others that they had room with which to operate their own agenda’s.

That’s right, and spending billions on smart weapons to “shock and awe” the Iraqis by hitting things that were not worth billions themselves only depleted our resources more. We had a window in the beginning where if we weren’t trying to fight the war on the cheap in terms of manpower, we might have made a much different outcome. There were many generals and a few Admirals who said exactly this, and got fired for being right.

355 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:50:27am

re: #350 buzzsawmonkey

Sorry to disagree with you Buzz, but Killing more civilians would not have prevented the disaster. Killing more bad guys would have. The US didn’t have enough troops to seal the borders, and to keep civil order, and to kill the all the bad guys that needed killing. Rumsfeld insisted there was no insurgency, that there were only former regime dead enders and terrorists that needed chasing down. He kept the troops on big bases, sending out raiding parties and then withdrawing back to base. It was a stupid strategy. Rumsfeld, & Peter Pace were adamantly opposed to Petraeus’ strategy. That’s why Bush asked Rummy to resign, because he couldn’t support the President’s decision to go for the Surge.

356 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:52:15am
357 JohnnyReb  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:52:51am

re: #353 Athos

One of the messages that demonstrated the lack of will to realistically look at the situation in Iraq on the ground came in the weeks after the collapse of Saddam’s government - and looting was permitted without any real effort to prevent it. The message to those there was that the US / Coalition was unwilling to really mix it up with the people and enforce law and order - preferring to stay hand’s off. This provided encouragement to Mookie and others that they had room with which to operate their own agenda’s.


Not unwilling, more like not able. We had not a single unit trained to deal with situations like that. The bottom line is the military went in unprepared to handle the aftermath of destroying Iraq’s military.

We had almost no civil affairs troops following the combat troops. MP units were scattered with too few trying to cover to much territory. In essence, we forgot the lessons of the past and expected a military that was trained only to fight and win, to actually becoming a governing force.

We keep doing this to ourselves in almost every war from the Civil War, and we pay for it every single time.

358 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:54:01am

I think both Kenneth and Buzzy have the right. I can’t believe that Buzzy was advocating killing more civilians - however, too much of a kid glove approach, lets too many bad guys get away.

Byt the same token, the only way to kill more bad guys from their hidey holes, without simply flattening everything is to send more men on the ground. We never sent in sufficient forces except towards the very end.

359 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:54:11am

re: #353 Athos

The looting happened within the first few days of the collapse, and it ended fairly quickly as well. We should have expected it, because looting is what that society does, but nobody seems to have anticipate it. The US generals on the ground did not want to order US troops to stop it because it suddenly occurred to them they had a few thousand US troops inside a city of 5 million Arabs, with an unsecured supply line several hundred miles long.

360 bolivar  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:58:03am

re: #36 That’s Mr. President to you

By now I think it is clear that everyone in the world loves me, and especially so for being “cool as a cucumber.”

But, frankly, it pisses me off that these guys would do this sort of thing in the first 100 days of my presidency.

The jihadis are opportunists and have patience. They waited for this and now that we have a pantywaist in the oval office they feel like their “bra has been unclasped” and all their glory can spring forth. You get the metaphor I am sure.

361 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:58:48am
362 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:00:07pm

re: #358 LudwigVanQuixote

And I’m arguing that it wasn’t a kid-glove approach that let the bad guys get away, but a lack of a resources -too few troops, and the wrong overall strategy. Rumsfled’s counter-terrorism strategy was dead wrong.

Make no mistake, when US troops did fight the various militias and terrorists, they wore no kid gloves. The Marines in Fallujah fought an urban war like no other: brutal, intense and brilliant. Bush interfered and made them stop so he could win an election. But when the Marines were given the go ahead again, they took that town with overwhelming force. The Army did the same thing in Tal Afar & Mosul. But time and again, the Sec-Def threw it all away by ordering the troops to withdraw back to big bases.

363 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:01:47pm

re: #361 buzzsawmonkey

Sadr wasn’t in Fallujah. That was a Sunni town held by Al Qaeda. They would have killed him if he went there. No Shia population at all.

364 Athos  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:05:46pm

re: #359 Kenneth

The looting, and a lot of other things were not anticipated, and that is the result of the focus on the planning for defeating Saddam’s army and not so much on the cultural, societal, and other influences around what would happen next / what to do next to restore a failed state to a state that has an opportunity to operate.

The inability to focus and mistakes made in the first days / weeks / months of the post-war period is what set the framework for the conflicts of 2005-7 until a mindset change in our command structure and the surge broke the back of the insurgency.

It’s hard to address from here the ‘perfect’ decisions or strategy, that will be done by historians going forward. Yes, outnumbered and with a tenuous logistical tail, a case can be made to not provoke the civilians, but I think that risk might have been overblown by officers who did not want their troops doing that job.

365 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:12:02pm
366 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:12:03pm

re: #361 buzzsawmonkey

re: #362 Kenneth

And I hear both of you.

367 Dominic Yeso  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:13:31pm

re: #362 Kenneth

Agree, however IMHO, in some cases we had the kid gloves on too because - Western civ doesn’t have what it takes to fight and complete a war anymore. Even if things go completely right our 5th columnists will agitate to undermine our political leadership to the point where everything is second guessed and actions become driven by optics and spin rather than on actual achievement. Hence, nothing is ever settled and the enemy just regroups to fight another day.

368 Zimriel  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:14:24pm

re: #363 Kenneth

Sadr wasn’t in Fallujah. That was a Sunni town held by Al Qaeda. They would have killed him if he went there. No Shia population at all.

I think buzz knows that. He’s grouping Fallujah and Sadr City / Mookie by topic, not by location

369 Athos  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:14:37pm

re: #362 Kenneth

I agree with the weight of a lot of the bad decisions rest on the former Sec-Def. General Franks and Abizaid also have ownership of some of the problems and bad decisions. But during this time, the Army also was undertaking a major internal fight over how it would be structured and positioned to face threats. Far too many of the senior commanders were still embraced in the Central Europe / major conventional war mindset as opposed to assymetrical counter insurgency war that the fight against radical islamofascism.

370 Zimriel  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:15:04pm

oh. well, if he’s already admitted his mistake who am I to butt in :^)

371 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:16:28pm

re: #255 Arrr

Disassembling a nuclear warhead and then reassembling it in a position where it could be used against any of their intended targets is not something al-Qaeda or the ISI are capable of, unless half of al-Qaeda consists of Islamist Oppenheimers

Not so hard when the Taliban is holding a Pakistani nuclear scientist’s family hostage…..

372 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:17:33pm

re: #365 buzzsawmonkey

That would have been the fighting in Najaf, which occurred at the same time as the Fallujah uprising. The US used Kurdish peshmurga to flush out Sadr’s militiamen from a mosque and cemetery. They decided not to completely crush Sadr in the hope he could be persuaded to join the political process. That didn’t work out as planned.

373 Scarlet Letter  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:18:44pm

re: #202 realwest

He did indeed take a ton of shit for helping us; when Mushareef was in power, we KNEW where Pakistan’s nukes and missiles were - a deal we cut to assuage India’s fears. Then we abandoned Mushareef, CANDIDATE Obama was talking about INVADING Pakistan and so the Pakistani’s moved most of their nuclear aresenal AND their missiles to locations mostly unknown to us.
Something else to thank President Genius for.

Would you mind providing a link? I thought there were US troops or contractors or something packed around those nukes.

374 Rancher  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:19:01pm

The Pakistani military and the ISI have to choose who is the greater threat, the Taliban, India, or American hegemony. The problem with the military is that they have been playing both ends and now are unsure of where their junior officers’ and grunts’ loyalties lie.

375 SFGoth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:19:06pm

re: #30 Kosh’s Shadow

Good. And India and Israel are cooperating in anti-terrorism and defense. I still doubt 0bama will authorize anything until it is too late, but India and Israel probably will act more quickly. And the Indians would be better able to blend in and carry out a commando raid.

LOL, quite a lot of Israelis don’t look like white New Yorkers. I do foresee India and Israel becoming very good friends. In fact, Israel may come to find more succor from India given that they’re both peas in the pod.

376 Mr Spiffy  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:19:57pm

re: #62 MikeAlv77

Items like the above help me to sleep at night…

Anybody know a good rock to hide under for the next century 10,000 years or more?


FTFY
wishes the world were so easy

377 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:21:40pm

Didn’t the O’ keep saying we should invade Pakistan during his campaign? So… what’s the O’ saying now? - crickets…
sigh…

378 Mr Spiffy  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:22:32pm

re: #63 Big Steve

What has been the relationship between the Taliban (when in power in Afganistan) and Iran? I am never quite certain which branch of Islam hates the other.

Doesn’t matter they all hate the Jews

379 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:22:47pm

re: #373 Scarlet Letter

Would you mind providing a link? I thought there were US troops or contractors or something packed around those nukes.

No US troops. See this post:

re: #313 Athos

Controls on Pakistan’s Nuclear Technology

380 SFGoth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:23:03pm

re: #215 joncelli

I’m sorry to say that Alexandria, while a lovely town, is moonbat central. I’m afraid you’re stuck with the city council you’ve got.

You’re kidding right? Moonbat central? Alexandria, Va? Have you ever even *heard* of San Francisco? How long have visitors to Alexandria been wearing flowers in their hair? MBC, LOL Dude, S.F. is the Bronx Bombers, the Murderers Row of Moonbatism.

381 Rancher  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:23:05pm

re: #367 Dominic Yeso

Agree, however IMHO, in some cases we had the kid gloves on too because - Western civ doesn’t have what it takes to fight and complete a war anymore. Even if things go completely right our 5th columnists will agitate to undermine our political leadership to the point where everything is second guessed and actions become driven by optics and spin rather than on actual achievement. Hence, nothing is ever settled and the enemy just regroups to fight another day.

As the current interrogation brouhaha illustrates.

382 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:23:43pm

re: #377 anotherindyfilmguy

No. Obama said he would authorized hot pursuit of AQ from Af’stan inot Pakistan. Not an invasion.

383 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:24:35pm

re: #165 Kenneth

I’m sure Iran or Russia would prove helpful.

LOL. Kenneth, you haven’t hit your head recently?

384 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:30:45pm

re: #383 funky chicken

LOL. Kenneth, you haven’t hit your head recently?

Why yes, as a matter of fact, I find myself pounding my head against the wall quite frequently lately. Why do you ask?

385 quickjustice  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:33:11pm

This may be the first real foreign policy test of this President. If he lets Pakistan’s capitol fall to the Taliban, that will be a clear signal to other Islamic extremists.

386 Scarlet Letter  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:35:41pm

re: #379 Kenneth

Thanks. I vaguely recall something about contractors. I’m going crazy trying to dig it up and I have the feeling it was more recent than Feb 2008.

387 JustABill  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:47:06pm

re: #75 That’s Mr. President to you

Well now that I have read the thread, it seems most of you think there are national security implications to all of this.

I suppose that is true, seeing as Pakistan has nukes. But we should focus on the bigger implications - what if Islamabad falls in the first 100 days of my presidency? Think of the impact that might have on my legacy.

Let’s focus on what is important people.

If its in the first hundred days, you can blame Bush. If its much later, you would bear more of the responsibility. So you’d better get them to hurry up and take over already…

388 Kenneth  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:48:48pm

re: #386 Scarlet Letter

IF there are US security contractors, it would be fully denied by the Pak gov’t. All I have heard is the Pakistanis have there own “handpicked” team of security forces controlling the nukes. Also, that the weapons are not in a ready-to-launch condition.

389 JustABill  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:59:58pm

re: #303 Mad Mullah

Yes, 180 million translates into a whole lot of crazies since Islamic terrorists do have a significant amount of support and admirers in that country.

If a war can be avoided, then that’s great, but if there were ever to be any sort of war, then I am not a big believer of putting many US boots on the ground, and I also do not believe in any “winning the hearts and mind” nonsense. I am a believer in total capitulation.

Unfortunately, I believe our President shares your belief.

390 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 1:03:28pm

As soon as Taliban seize power, India will feel threatened. War will ensue, and all those jobs that went offshore ….

391 truth stick  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 2:38:17pm

re: #276 Ward Cleaver

If they don’t have something in orbit, then what is this that’s being tracked?

I don’t know what it is up there, but it is headed across the Pacific and worse than that, it has my house on the map, and it is coming right over my roof….runs for the bomb shelter.

392 dry_heavz_4_alla  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 2:51:27pm

FYI

Here’s a website/blog from Buner with on-the-ground details about the Taliban advance. Taliban strength in Buner estimated at about 2700 with a constant stream coming in from Swat.
[Link: buner.com…]

And keep an eye on the Tarbela Dam. It supplies Islamabad’s electricity (3500 MW), and 50% of the the country’s agricultural water. Bottom line … Islamabad (and probably Pakistan) can’t survive without it.

Rumor has it that the Taliban are currently making a move on this strategic resource, [Link: www.thenews.com.pk…] but so far, Pakistan has only mustered 300 troops to resist them.

Kinda get the feeling Pakistan doesn’t want to win? Or maybe they’re just so confident they have this tiger by the tail (like the Shah)?

393 AMER1CAN  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 3:03:41pm

They do know that he is Mr. Cool don’t they? I’m guessing the Taliban never got that email.

394 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 3:10:05pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

True, but the government has botched their response to the Taliban.

Best case scenario here: Another Pakistani General gets fed up with this and launches another coup, neutering the current Pakistani leadership and mobilizing the army to deal with the Taliban effectively.

Umm…Pakistan ain’t Turkey, and it doesn’t have Turkey’s secular Ataturk history; instead it was founded on a religious schism. Pakistan’s military is much more sympathetic to Islamism than is Turkey’s.

395 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 3:12:45pm

re: #131 opinionated

Obama is the worst possible person to be President in this moment in time.

Years ago, well before the 2008 election crystallized, long before the financial meltdown, when Iraq was the focus and Pakistan was being ignored, I was not very popular on Republican/Conservative blogs when I was pushing Giuliani for President with the prediction that Bush will leave a mess as great if not greater then Carter, and we desperately needed a proved competent President to clean up after him.

Instead we got the absolute worse President imaginable.

It coulda been worse; we coulda got Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich, or Ron Paul.

396 Salamantis  Thu, Apr 23, 2009 3:15:32pm

re: #164 jwb7605

The way I remember things, the more visible support Bush gave Musharraf, the more unpopular he became.
Then, ‘encouraging words’ were said about one of the next possible leader — the woman (Bhuto?) who promptly got assassinated. She was allegedly quite pro-American.

Game over at that point.

The present President, Zardawi, is Benazir Bhutto’s widower.

397 mrkwong  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:08:34am

So, because GWB learned nothing from his father and let Rumsfeld and the generals go into Iraq with 120K pairs of boots instead of the 400K his father sent to do the far easier job in Kuwait, what could have been a succesful 24-month exercise turned into six years and running, proving that even a little war could exhaust the US military and the American public’s patience.

So now we’ve got President Teleprompter and his collection of babbling stooges like Energy Secretary Chu, and would-be proconsul Clinton who, for all her supposed qualifications, hasn’t yet managed to do anything but study the State Department’s manual on Drafting Excessively Cautious Public Statements. Oh, and sign off on her staff’s Making Obama Look Dumber Than Gordon Brown project.

The Koreans are ignoring us, the Iranians are urinating on our shoes. Obama’s off sitting in on Hugo’s book club. The Russians and the Taliban heard Rahm’s “take advantage of a crisis” line and thought it sounded like a damn good idea.

Just how many tests did Slow Joe have in mind?

398 zeebeach  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 5:04:38am

This is the most frightening and significant news I’ve heard in a very long time. Now, more than ever, I’m missing GWB. At least he had access to VIPs (very intelligent people), so he could make informed decisions. Who will advise Obama? Barney? Nancy?


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