UN Can’t Wait to Prosecute Bush Officials

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By opening the door to prosecutions of CIA officials, President Obama is relinquishing US sovereignty in favor of international law, and the United Nations is salivating at the prospect of prosecuting American citizens: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers.

VIENNA – The U.S. is obligated by a United Nations convention to prosecute Bush administration lawyers who allegedly drafted policies that approved the use of harsh interrogation tactics against terrorism suspects, the U.N.’s top anti-torture envoy said Friday.

And this, of course, is the same United Nations who invited Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to give a hateful antisemitic speech at the Durban II “anti-racism” conference.

UPDATE at 4/24/09 10:27:08 am:

Meanwhile, Obama (as usual) is trying to have it both ways: Obama Resisting Push for Interrogation Panel.

WASHINGTON — The White House and the Democratic leadership in the Senate signaled on Thursday that they would block for now any effort to establish an independent commission to investigate the Bush administration’s approval of harsh interrogation techniques.

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574 comments
1 sleepyone  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:25:26am

Good grief. Say it ain’t so!

2 Shug  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:26:02am

Strongly worded letters against Tyrants despots and genocidal maniacs.

But prosecution for a former President of the United States and people who gave him legal council?

Pathetic.

3 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:26:04am

Oh yeah, and the Human Rights Council members should be the first trial defendants!

4 Big Steve  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:26:21am

I say to the UN……If you want Bush come get him from Texas.

5 brookly red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:26:47am

UN Go Home.

6 ShumBaayaMyLord  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:27:02am

Yeah, well, this is precisely the kind of scenario John Bolton described in his March edition Commentary Magazine article “The Coming War on Sovereignty.” And no I am not a marketing emissary from Commentary — just remarking on how amazingly on-the-mark Bolton was with that essay.

7 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:27:03am

Start a list of folks who support withdrawing from the UN. Or at least, stop paying it!

8 Sleepyone  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:27:26am

re: #5 brookly red

UN Go Home.

I second that!

9 doppelganglander  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:27:33am

There is no limit to my loathing for the United Nations and everything it stands for (not what it claims to stand for).

10 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:27:52am

re: #5 brookly red

UN Go Home.

Send it to Europe, or Saudi Arabia!

11 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:27:55am

I don’t recognize Obama’s authority to surrender my sovereign rights as US citizen.

12 jcm  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:28:20am

Obama will turn over documents, in the name of international cooperation.
And be able to say, It’s not me prosecuting them.

*spit*

13 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:28:51am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don’t recognize Obama’s authority to surrender my sovereign rights as US citizen.

Let’s look for something that violates his oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

14 charles_martel  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:28:55am

Why doesn’t the UN prosecute the people who shut off Mogadishu’s water in the 90’s? Oh, that’s right, it was one one their own. Never mind….

15 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:29:05am

Evict the UN.

16 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:29:14am

Time to take George Carlins advice about Leading, Following or Getting out of the way.

FUCK THAT, OBSTRUCT.

17 Shug  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:29:16am
WASHINGTON — The White House and the Democratic leadership in the Senate signaled on Thursday that they would block for now any effort to establish an independent commission to investigate the Bush administration’s approval of harsh interrogation techniques

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that they knew of and approved these techniques?

18 Capitalist Tool  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:29:16am

The leftist dweebs like Waxman, Pelosi et cie are hoping their own culpability for this non- problem never sees daylight, but they might be too late…

19 pegcity  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:29:29am

Khrushchev would be proud

20 grahamski  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:30:07am

“I have always been for a truth commission, because I think this is very important,” Ms. Pelosi said.

Truth?, that woman does not know the meaning of the word.

21 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:30:31am

Pelosi is denying knowledge of actual use of the enhanced techniques.
*SPIT*

22 ShumBaayaMyLord  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:31:10am

Someone (or mulitple someones) pointed out yesterday that — in all this sturm und drang — it’s hard to find any authoritative and crystal-clear pronouncement anywhere from the “accusing” (anti-Bush) side about how “torture” is defined. I bet the UN folks aren’t able to furnish anything on the score either.

23 Shug  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:31:17am

re: #21 NelsFree

Pelosi is denying knowledge of actual use of the enhanced techniques.
*SPIT*

Yes.
No different than the guy who loaded the RPG’s onto the pirate ship, but had no idea that they were actually going to use them……..

24 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:31:30am

Unbelievable Nimrods.

25 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:31:35am

re: #21 NelsFree

Pelosi is denying knowledge of actual use of the enhanced techniques.
*SPIT*

Lying bitch

26 J.S.  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:31:42am

It’s becoming increasingly clear that the so-called “torture” memos should never, ever have been released.

27 brookly red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:31:42am

re: #21 NelsFree

Pelosi is denying knowledge of actual use of the enhanced techniques.
*SPIT*

I would like to see her do that, under oath.

28 Big Steve  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:31:53am

Part of me would like to see the current administration try Bush on this. Frankly a whole lot would come out regarding certain current members of congress and what they knew, what a certain Secretary of State’s husband did while in office. And in the end it would end up in the Supreme Court where it would get tossed.

29 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:32:06am
The White House and the Democratic leadership in the Senate signaled on Thursday that they would block for now any effort to establish an independent commission to investigate the Bush administration’s approval of harsh interrogation techniques.

Which once again highlights that every Obama statement comes with an expiration date. He can and will change his mind at a later date, despite the fact that he’s opening up a can of worms and exposes the US to further interference in US national security and putting our security in the hands of those who do not care what happens.

In the meantime, the same Administration and Congressional officials will agitate to attack the Bush Administration in the media by leaking certain documents highlighting the legal hoops through which the Administration made its determinations to allow the interrogation techniques while holding back other documents that show the success of same.

30 UberInfidel67  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:32:18am

I think Dubya will show up for prosecution AFTER they enforce the arrest warrant against Bashir.

/////

31 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:32:30am

The O is always “present.”

32 pegcity  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:32:49am

Obama wants to turn America from the lone super power into just another hasbeen nation

never thought id see it in my lifetime

33 ShumBaayaMyLord  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:32:57am

#16 Kragar

That was George Patton.

(Apologies if you intentionally and humorously wrote “Carlin.”)

34 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:33:25am

First the denouncement, then the trial.
/Soviet style justice

35 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:33:33am

re: #17 Shug

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that they knew of and approved these techniques?

WASHINGTON — The White House and the Democratic leadership in the Senate signaled on Thursday that they would block for now any effort to establish an independent commission to investigate the Bush administration’s approval of harsh interrogation techniques

This is the crux - “for now.” They are playing with this notion over and over again. They don’t need it to acutally go anywhere, they just need to scare the beejeezes out of anyone in military/inteligence work. This is fucking chilling.

36 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:33:42am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lying bitch

Pelosi was born a politician - lying comes naturally.

37 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:33:45am

re: #33 ShumBaayaMyLord

#16 Kragar

That was George Patton.

(Apologies if you intentionally and humorously wrote “Carlin.”)

Carlin used it in his act as well

38 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:33:59am

Obama wants to release more Abu Ghraib pictures the ACLU has sued to release.

Gates objects.

Fox News

39 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:34:12am

re: #4 Big Steve

I say to the UN……If you want Bush come get him from Texas.

I believe the proper Texas response is “Come and take him”.

40 capitalist piglet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:34:17am

Banana Republic: It’s not just a clothing store anymore!

41 doppelganglander  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:34:30am

re: #34 NelsFree

First the denouncement, then the trial.
/Soviet style justice

Sentence first, trial after!
/Red Queen

42 J.S.  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:34:51am

re: #22 ShumBaayaMyLord

The UN does have a definition of “torture.” Plus the UN has a special committee…Plus the UN has a special envoy….wiki link here…

43 averagecdn  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:34:51am

Has the world gone insane?

HuffPo supporting anti-vaccination with Carey’s article sending their credibility into the dark and spreading info that some sheep will read and hurt their kids.

Releasing of photos that WILL definitely be used by the bad guys to hurt civilized society. Attacking the CIA that has kept us safe.

Anti-jihad bloggers getting into bed with Nazis. You know what will happen… they’ll use those pictures and information to paste the whole anti-jihad movement as racist. You can hear a 1000 diaries being writting on Daily Kos and HuffPo as you read this.

Fox news’ Beck and Hannity becoming like Olberman, only replace ‘Bush’ with ‘Obama’. Derangement over little items making their status as messenger profoundly suspect overall.

I’m I wrong to think the world is choosing insanity over reason?

44 UberInfidel67  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:34:57am

re: #38 alegrias
Obi is gonna get lockjaw from all the global dicksucking he is doing.

45 kynna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:35:21am

I think what’s needed here is a LOT of sunlight. The dems will block this since they’re deeply involved. Obama needs to be spotlighted, too. And Americans need to know the implications. This is not some touchy-feely “isn’t that shameful” panel. This has far reaching consequences and the obdurate masses need a kick in the intellect.

46 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:35:23am

44 additional prison pictures to be released by the Pentagon (per Rosa Brooks of the LA Times?) by May 28

Fox News

47 Baier  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:35:24am

re: #28 Big Steve

Part of me would like to see the current administration try Bush on this. Frankly a whole lot would come out regarding certain current members of congress and what they knew, what a certain Secretary of State’s husband did while in office. And in the end it would end up in the Supreme Court where it would get tossed.

I agree. I don’t think those against the interrogation techniques would change their opinion as a result of such a scenario, but at least the American people can see who is honest and who is not.

But on the whole, a trial is probably not a good idea.

48 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:35:33am

Seriously, my neighbor in the apartment above me was playing his stereo so loud that I had trouble sleeping last nigh, and this morning, I got some water in my nose while I was taking a shower, and then in the kitchen, I saw a wasp.

I want the UN to investigate.

49 Spider Mensch  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:35:39am

re: #22 ShumBaayaMyLord

Someone (or mulitple someones) pointed out yesterday that — in all this sturm und drang — it’s hard to find any authoritative and crystal-clear pronouncement anywhere from the “accusing” (anti-Bush) side about how “torture” is defined. I bet the UN folks aren’t able to furnish anything on the score either.


for the un diplomats in NYC,,torture for them is defined as having their drivers have to park 3 parking spaces away from their embassies front door and also their call girl service runs out of tall blondes so they have to take a brunette for the night. Them un diplomats know what toture is.

50 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:35:43am

re: #40 capitalist piglet

UPDING! Shamelessly acute observation…

51 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:36:00am

It’s all going nowhere / just a smokescreen to keep everyone real busy and real worried. Hey! Look over here while we turn the world on its head. You ain’t gonna recognize it when we get done.

52 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:36:36am

re: #38 alegrias

Obama wants to release more Abu Ghraib pictures the ACLU has sued to release.

Gates objects.

Pig just flew by my window.

53 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:36:41am

I say let them try. Then the US can get this impotent organ off US soil.

I wish the US would stop all donations to the UN for 1 year. And would go as far as to say any donations to the whole world. No relief aid. No military aid. No bailout aid.
One year. Then maybe the rest of the world will begin to show some respect to us.

54 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:36:41am

Ok, so they want to try Bush… what about Khalifa bin Zayed al-Nahyan? Gonna try him too?

55 Adrenalyn  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:36:44am

I give this an upding because the anarchist in me says
“bring it on”

America needs to see what it has voted for with UN-supporter 0bama and company

if one person takes the fall and we collectively wake up
so be it

if that person is Bush - so be it
he should have fought back

56 AmericanMe  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:36:52am

Gee what a surprise. Obama, trying to have it both ways? I’m beginning to believe this man is either bipolar or schizophrenic. He flip flops more than JF’enKerry. Is he ever going to take a stand on anything?

I am so angry about this I can spit!

57 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:01am

Shiny Objects

58 Fat Jolly Penguin  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:27am

Shiny objects!

59 zombie  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:31am

Obama has spent his whole career pandering to constituencies and making hollow promises — and then voting “present” when he actually gets into office.

Now he’s doing it again on the international stage, and it’s having dire consequences. You can’t shovel promises of national self-destruction into the pen of slavering moonbats, and then waffle about actually following through. He’s gotten himself into extremely deep water here, except this time it has major national security consequences.

If he doesn’t jail or execute CIA agents and Republican lawyers for trying to prevent the next 9/11, the national and international Left with explode in rage and fury. But if he does persecute American intelligence officers, he will utterly demoralize and discredit our national security structure, possibly forever.

Obama is aware of this, so he’s trying to please both side simultaneously, making ever-more-untenable promises every day.

Now that you are actually the President, Mr. Obama, no, you can’t just eat your waffle.

60 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:35am

Well, so this is what it’s like to be a banana republic.

61 Fat Jolly Penguin  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:39am

re: #57 DaddyG

Shiny Objects

-__-

62 Syrah  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:40am

The wackos on the far left (middle of the road Democrats?) are so focused on their tantrums that they cannot grasp significance of the damage that they are doing.

63 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:40am

re: #45 kynna

Obdurate! Yay!

64 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:54am

re: #27 brookly red

I would like to see her do that, under oath.

Don’t be silly, the laws against perjury and obstruction of justice are never violated by the pure-of-heart Democrats, only by those evil Republicans.

We have very selective prosecution in this country, which is as serious as any other problem we have, IMHO.

65 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:37:56am

re: #5 brookly red

UN Go Home away.

66 Big Steve  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:38:00am

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Seriously, my neighbor in the apartment above me was playing his stereo so loud that I had trouble sleeping last nigh, and this morning, I got some water in my nose while I was taking a shower, and then in the kitchen, I saw a wasp and we all had to put up with William_Ryan this morning…..

I want the UN to investigate.

I know you don’t like to be tagged on but I just had to help……

67 quickjustice  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:38:09am

Obama and the Senate leadership will block efforts to prosecute Bush Administration officials “for now”. That’s certainly comforting! //

68 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:38:26am

Obama better learn that its his oath to protect his own…even the ones that disagree with him…or this will come back and bite him in ways he can’t foresee.

At the very least, the precedent of targeting prior administration officials may get aimed at his own administration after he leaves office, let alone Obama personally.

69 zombie  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:38:34am

Left with explode = Left will explode

PIMF

70 dhg4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:38:39am

re: #10 NelsFree

Send it to Europe, or Saudi Arabia!

Actually I’d recommend Saudi Arabia. Better chance that some of the “diplomats” will run afoul of the local laws and find themselves facing some really harsh “justice.” Right now whether it’s NY or Geneva it’s like a paid vacation for most of these folks.

71 Capitalist Tool  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:38:50am

re: #21 NelsFree

Pelosi is denying knowledge of actual use of the enhanced techniques.
*SPIT*

Nancy’s position(s):

a) I had no knowledge
b) I had knowledge, but didn’t think they would do it
c) I knew they were doing it, but was helpless to stop them

72 kynna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:39:00am

re: #47 Baier

I agree. I don’t think those against the interrogation techniques would change their opinion as a result of such a scenario, but at least the American people can see who is honest and who is not.

But on the whole, a trial is probably not a good idea.

Like the 9/11 panel exposed the Clinton administration’s “wall” which directly contributed to the success of the attacks. Very few Americans know about this. A trial would be used politically. No matter what was actually uttered under oath, the MSM and the dems will recreate it to fit their agenda. They always do. And it works for them.

73 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:39:46am

re: #59 zombie

Or to quote Giuliani on the matter “When you’re President being
“present” isn’t enough; you have to actually make a decision”

74 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:40:08am

re: #55 Adrenalyn

America must NEVER surrender sovereignty! NOBODY comes to take ANY President, living or dead!

75 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:40:19am

re: #71 Capitalist Tool

Nancy’s position(s):

a) I had no knowledge
b) I had knowledge, but didn’t think they would do it
c) I knew they were doing it, but was helpless to stop them

d) I wasn’t at those meetings because I was getting botox injections.

76 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:40:33am

While the UN is waiting for us to deliver them, why don’t they prosecute those who used a UN program to enrich themselves and Saddam, that was supposed to make sure oil money went to the people of Iraq.
And those who allowed the Rwandan genocide.
I’m sure lizards can come up with many others.

77 kynna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:40:38am

re: #63 NelsFree

Obdurate! Yay!

Word of the day, yo. ;D

78 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:40:41am

re: #29 lawhawk

Which once again highlights that every Obama statement comes with an expiration date. He can and will change his mind at a later date, despite the fact that he’s opening up a can of worms and exposes the US to further interference in US national security and putting our security in the hands of those who do not care what happens.
…

In reality the Obama administration is opening a barrel of snakes, some of which will come back to bite them.

79 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:40:49am

The President is dangerously naive.

80 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:40:55am

re: #21 NelsFree

Pelosi is denying knowledge of actual use of the enhanced techniques.
*SPIT*

I’d like to see the documents proving that Pelosi, et al, knew details about interrogation techniques, printed in the Washington Times.

/like the pentagon papers

81 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:41:20am

Oh, and let the UN prosecute that UAE sheik that tortured his people.

82 MJ  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:41:29am

WaPo reports:

Several Obama aides said the president’s decision was in line with his frequent criticism during the campaign of President George W. Bush’s policies on interrogations at secret prisons. On his second day in office, Obama banned the prisons and the tactics in an executive order.

The aides also said they hope the memos’ release will focus public attention on the coldness and sterility of the legal justifications for abusive techniques, with Obama telling reporters in the Oval Office on Tuesday that the documents demonstrate that the nation lost its “moral bearings” in the Bush years.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

Right.
Because it’s immoral to put the safety of Americans before International Court of Justice.

83 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:41:30am

Surely UN run show trials of Bush Administration figures would be enough to snap the American people out of their Hopium addiction and trance.

Of course I thought the repeated, gratuitous deployment of the race card coupled with the associations with Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, and William Ayers might be enough, and it obviously wasn’t.

84 turn  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #75 MrSilverDragon

d) I wasn’t at those meetings because I was getting botox injections.

e) I blinked

85 zombie  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:41:44am

re: #73 looking closely

Or to quote Giuliani on the matter “When you’re President being
“present” isn’t enough; you have to actually make a decision”

Oh how right Giuliani was.

I’m still mad at the GOP for not getting behind his primary nomination.

86 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:42:00am

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Heh.

87 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:42:38am

re: #67 quickjustice

Obama and the Senate leadership will block efforts to prosecute Bush Administration officials “for now”. That’s certainly comforting! //

“For now” means permanently; its just a face-saving way of doing so.

The fact is, if they try this, it will backfire on them BIG time.

For one thing, there were several high-level Democrats in the chain of command in these intelligence briefings, and once they open this can of worms, those Democrats will be part of it.

The next thing is that if this can of worms is actually opened, its probably going to end up reflecting WELL on the individuals involved, not poorly.

Cheney called the bluff…lets see EXACTLY what the consequences of waterboarding a few high-level terrorists were.

88 tfc3rid  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:42:40am

re: #38 alegrias

Obama wants to release more Abu Ghraib pictures the ACLU has sued to release.

Gates objects.

Fox News

2000 pics… They are from interrogations in Iraq and Afghanistan…

Would further damage us… Fucking ACLU.

89 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:42:56am

Apparently having a backbone and making leadership positions are above this fucking clowns paygrade. Hopefully someone explains to him that failing to stand up to the UN on this could lead to some serious repurcussions for all of our Presidents. Many countries are envious of our bloodless revolution every 4 or 8 years and would love to do all they could to topple our government.

90 kynna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:43:03am

re: #76 Kosh’s Shadow

While the UN is waiting for us to deliver them, why don’t they prosecute those who used a UN program to enrich themselves and Saddam, that was supposed to make sure oil money went to the people of Iraq.

That would be Kofi Annan’s right hand man. Possibly also his son.

And those who allowed the Rwandan genocide.

That would be Kofi Annan himself.

At the UN, turning a blind eye to, and profiting from death and destruction is a career move.

91 joncelli  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:43:15am

re: #29 lawhawk

The problem is that it sows doubt, which creates inefficiency. People on the front lines don’t know if the policy will change tomorrow, so they hesitate and let golden opportunities pass by. What happens if the CIA grabs somebody who knows bin Laden’s whereabouts, but the officers don’t know if putting maximum pressure on that person will get them in trouble later? The first few minutes after capture, when the prisoner is confused and frightened, is the best time to interrogate. If the officers wait for legal guidance the prisoner could have time to marshall his resources and resist low-level interrogation. If he knows that all he’ll ever face is low-level interrogation, he’ll just clam up and wait it out. This has “disaster” written all over it.

92 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:43:18am

re: #74 NelsFree

America must NEVER surrender sovereignty! NOBODY comes to take ANY PresidentAmerican, living or dead!

It doesn’t matter if its the President, the CEO of a corporation, a janitor or the homeless guy who lives under the freeway. YOU DO NOT GIVE UP AN AMERICAN CITIZEN SIMPLY BECAUSE SOMEONE WANTS TO HAVE HIM!

Wars were fought for this, and wars will be fought again. It doesn’t matter who it is or if its just one man, YOU DO NOT HAND HIM OVER!

93 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:43:24am

re: #56 AmericanMe

Gee what a surprise. Obama, trying to have it both ways? I’m beginning to believe this man is either bipolar or schizophrenic. He flip flops more than JF’enKerry. Is he ever going to take a stand on anything?

I am so angry about this I can spit!

He wants to be able to assassinate peoples’ character with impunity, without suffering any legal blowback from it.

94 Spider Mensch  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:43:29am

re: #75 MrSilverDragon

d) I wasn’t at those meetings because I was getting botox injections.

6) i was blinking at my usaual 300 X per minute as I was reading it and missed every other word, I thought I was playing the Junior Jumble in the sunday comics.

95 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:43:57am

re: #34 NelsFree

First the denouncement, then the trial.
/Soviet style justice

That’s what I mean about selective prosecution, and prosecution through the press.

Plus, many of the offenses prosecuted are what might be referred to as “crimes against the (Democrat) party”.

96 MandyManners  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:00am

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

97 pegcity  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:00am

Obama makes Jimmy Carter look competent

98 Spider Mensch  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:06am

re: #84 turn

e) I blinked


ack! gmta :)

99 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #55 Adrenalyn

OT -

Please see my reply to you, last thread, at re: #333 Walter L. Newton

100 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:23am

re: #83 funky chicken

Surely UN run show trials of Bush Administration figures would be enough to snap the American people out of their Hopium addiction and trance.

Moonbats FEED on stuff like that. They dream it!

101 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:35am

re: #90 kynna

That would be Kofi Annan’s right hand man. Possibly also his son.

And those who allowed the Rwandan genocide.

That would be Kofi Annan himself.

At the UN, turning a blind eye to, and profiting from death and destruction is a career move.


My point exactly.
A trial in the UN for Bush administration people would be like letting the Mafia try a cop.

102 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:44am

re: #59 zombie

If he doesn’t jail or execute CIA agents and Republican lawyers for trying to prevent the next 9/11, the national and international Left with explode in rage and fury. But if he does persecute American intelligence officers, he will utterly demoralize and discredit our national security structure, possibly forever.

Forever? hopefully not, but intelligence personnel will remember that the American people were willing to stick a knife in their backs by electing a guy like Obama, so it’s possible that the damage he does could linger.

The same holds true for the military also.

103 Capitalist Tool  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:50am

re: #96 MandyManners

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

Ru Paul!

104 turn  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:44:56am

re: #98 Spider Mensch

ha, I saw that. I love that nickname for her “blinky”

105 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:45:03am

re: #93 Ward Cleaver

He wants to be able to assassinate peoples’ character with impunity, without suffering any legal blowback from it.

* * * *
It worked for democrats the last 8 years, while they slept soundly at night BECAUSE of Bush-Cheney and our tough military.

106 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:45:09am

re: #96 MandyManners

Missed that response, hadn’t seen it for a while.

107 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:45:10am

re: #96 MandyManners

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

Damn I wish I had thought of this quote first. It is going to be a goody for the next 3 and a bit years.

108 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:45:26am

re: #85 zombie

Oh how right Giuliani was.

I’m still mad at the GOP for not getting behind his primary nomination.


Its primarily Giuliani’s fault he lost, relying on the “take Florida” strategy. He put all his electoral eggs in one basket, so to speak.

If its any consolation, I’m not sure he could have actually won, the election, though I believe he probably would have done better than McCain.

109 Darwin Akbar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:45:44am

Each day it becomes more and more apparent that there is no limit to the damage to this country that Mr. Hope and Change is willing to inflict.

I seem to remember getting an e-mail last October from a moonbat neighbor entitled “Obama - The Centrist Leader We Need.”
Centrist, eh?

But we need not worry….at least Sarah Palin isn’t Vice President…after all, she’s only an amateur, not like Obama, the brilliant community organizer/boy genius.

/spit

110 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:00am

re: #85 zombie

Oh how right Giuliani was.

I’m still mad at the GOP for not getting behind his primary nomination.

There were too many candidates running, and the conservative vote fractured, which allowed McCain to move to the front.

111 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:00am

re: #96 MandyManners

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

* * **
Will you please tell Meghan McCain to quit attacking Cheney on Obama’s behalf, thank you?

112 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:27am

re: #96 MandyManners

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

That always gets an upding from me.

113 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:29am

re: #85 zombie

Oh how right Giuliani was.

I’m still mad at the GOP for not getting behind his primary nomination.

I really wanted McCain to pick Rudy for veep. They get along very well.

But the Ingrahams and Malkins were screaming that McCain HAD to pick a pro-lifer relilgious type….thus he chose Palin.

And Malkin still bashed McCain up until election day, along with lots of other “true conservatives.”

114 jwb7605  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:33am

re: #12 jcm

Obama will turn over documents, in the name of international cooperation.
And be able to say, It’s not me prosecuting them.

*spit*

Nobody but me updinged you for that observation?

115 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:42am

I shouldn’t stay home from work. Very funny.

116 saberry0530  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:56am

re: #96 MandyManners

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

Mandy, Have you submitted for your copyright on this yet?

117 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:46:57am

re: #100 NelsFree

Moonbats FEED on stuff like that. They dream it!

I must be conservative. I dreamed about Danica McKellar.

Of course I’m also a middle aged father so the dream was about my daughter getting her to authograph her math book.

What the heck is wrong with me!

118 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:02am

re: #108 looking closely

Its primarily Giuliani’s fault he lost, relying on the “take Florida” strategy. He put all his electoral eggs in one basket, so to speak.

If its any consolation, I’m not sure he could have actually won, the election, though I believe he probably would have done better than McCain.

He wouldn’t have been so deferential to Obama.

119 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:03am

re: #109 Darwin Akbar

I think Josef Stalin would consider 0bama to be left of center.

120 MJ  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:06am

More from the WaPo:

Seated in Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel’s West Wing office with about a dozen of his political, legal and security appointees, Obama requested a mini-debate in which one official was chosen to argue for releasing the memos and another was assigned to argue against doing so. When it ended, Obama dictated on the spot a draft of his announcement that the documents would be released, while most of the officials watched, according to an official who was present. The disclosure happened the next day.

Yes, he gave it a lot of though, didn’t he?
Seems those who argued in favor of releasing this information were Leftist lawyers Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and White House counsel Gregory B. Craig.
Wonder if the membership of the National Lawyers Guild was part of this discussion.

121 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:19am

re: #96 MandyManners

MANDY! YOU’RE HERE! We were missing you!

122 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:33am

re: #53 Erik The Red

I say let them try. Then the US can get this impotent organ off US soil.

I wish the US would stop all donations to the UN for 1 year. And would go as far as to say any donations to the whole world. No relief aid. No military aid. No bailout aid.
One year. Then maybe the rest of the world will begin to show some respect to us.

You sound as though you think our government feels the same as you do.

123 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:34am

re: #108 looking closely

Its primarily Giuliani’s fault he lost, relying on the “take Florida” strategy. He put all his electoral eggs in one basket, so to speak.

If its any consolation, I’m not sure he could have actually won, the election, though I believe he probably would have done better than McCain.

* * *
IF Giuliani runs for Governor of NY, I hope you will all knock yourselves out getting him elected.

124 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:36am

re: #100 NelsFree

Moonbats FEED on stuff like that. They dream it!

Yeah, but over 50% of American voters can’t be moonbats….can they?

125 MikeAlv77  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:47:38am

This makes perfect sense. Cowards go after people who will pay attention to them. If they tried to get Sudan or Iran to prosecute people, they would get the finger. We on the other hand are a nation of laws and they now our stuipd liberal media will trumpet this.

126 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:48:27am

re: #96 MandyManners

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

He did say that he was going to fundamentally change America. For the 52% out there, is this fucking fundamental enough for ya?

127 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:48:38am

re: #107 Erik The Red

Damn I wish I had thought of this quote first. It is going to be a goody for the next 3 and a bit years.

Mandy copyright!

128 Capitalist Tool  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:48:45am

re: #124 funky chicken

Yeah, but over 50% of American voters can’t be moonbats….can they?

50% are below average…

129 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:49:06am

I see this as Rahmian subterfuge and distraction. Watch the trash dumps this afternoon bloggers.

130 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:49:31am

re: #118 Ward Cleaver

He wouldn’t have been so deferential to Obama.

To put it mildly.
He would have CREAMED Obama in 3/3 debates.
Again, I don’t know if he would have won, but I believe he would have done better than McCain/Palin.

131 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:49:32am

re: #124 funky chicken

Yeah, but over 50% of American voters can’t be moonbats….can they?


With the release of stimulus money in 2010 and the results of the census being run through Emmanuel, 0bama has his majorities in the bag, so he really could care less about American voters unless they have passed away and are a guaranteed Democrat vote.

132 HoosierHoops  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:49:45am

Phil Clack has a great read about Jim Carrey’s new Anti-vaxx book..
Point by point he destroys the book and the Ant-Vaxx thought process..
************************
The article Carrey wrote has so much wrong in it that it almost qualifies as self-satirizing. His very first paragraph is a textbook example of spin. Basically, a few months ago a special court looked at three cases of potential damage due to vaccinations, and found no evidence of any connection. About this, Carrey says:

…a ruling against causation in three cases out of more than 5000 hardly proves that other children won’t be adversely affected by the MMR, let alone that all vaccines are safe. This is a huge leap of logic by anyone’s standards.

That last line comes dangerously close to an out-and-out lie on Carrey’s part, and it’s certainly dead wrong. The three cases that were presented to the special courts were chosen by the people presenting the cases themselves as the strongest of all their claims. And the courts did far more than simply find no link between between vaccines and autism; they called the antivax claims “speculative and unpersuasive.” One of the special masters (the judge, essentially) in the cases also said that the parents of one child had “been misled by physicians who are guilty, in my view, of gross medical misjudgment.”

So that “huge leap of logic” Carrey complains about is actually a carefully reasoned and literally judicious step.
*****************
great read:
[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com…]

133 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:49:52am

re: #117 DaddyG

I must be conservative. I dreamed about Danica McKellar.

Of course I’m also a middle aged father so the dream was about my daughter getting her to authograph her math book.

What the heck is wrong with me!


She’s smokin’ hot, and a genius to boot. Recently I saw her pictured on one of those entertainment gossip shows, and the airhead host didn’t even mention that McKellar was a math genius. Dolt.

134 kulhwch  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:50:41am

re: #4 Big Steve

I say to the UN……If you want Bush come get him from Texas.

Exactly, same for Cheney.  And bring your lawyers.

}:)     [Dick’ll shoot them first.]

135 Adrenalyn  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:51:11am

re: #12 jcm

Obama will turn over documents, in the name of international cooperation.
And be able to say, It’s not me prosecuting them.

*spit*

indeed !

I am sorry I have but one upding for you

136 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:52:08am

re: #123 alegrias

* * *
IF Giuliani runs for Governor of NY, I hope you will all knock yourselves out getting him elected.


I’m not a NY voter, though I do think he would be good for the State of NY.

I’d like to see him run against Kirsten Gillibrand for Hilary Clinton’s ex-NY Senate seat.

137 opinionated  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:52:23am

From Reagan to Obama: From Shining Mountain on a Hill to the characteristics of a Third World pit.

138 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:52:24am

re: #115 Van Helsing

I shouldn’t stay home from work. Very funny.

ROTFLMAO. Excellent.

139 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:52:34am

re: #38 alegrias

Obama wants to release more Abu Ghraib pictures the ACLU has sued to release.

Gates objects.

Fox News

Idiotic. The perps are in jail. The commanding general was a Clintonite affirmative action woman who thought she was above the whole “doing her job” thing, etc.

Perhaps Hillary is pushing this in a effort to help out her old friend or something. It does seem that an awful lot of Clintonite generals/admirals have moved into politics lately.

140 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:52:48am

re: #132 HoosierHoops

Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy - Dumb and Dumber.

141 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:53:31am

re: #130 looking closely

To put it mildly.
He would have CREAMED Obama in 3/3 debates.
Again, I don’t know if he would have won, but I believe he would have done better than McCain/Palin.

* * * *
Giuliani had multiple wife issues in case you forget plus he was married to his cousin the first time. The press was salivating over that plus his disgruntled kids.

You’re nuts if you think the NYT wouldn’t touch that.

142 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:53:40am

re: #117 DaddyG

I must be conservative. I dreamed about Danica McKellar.

Of course I’m also a middle aged father so the dream was about my daughter getting her to authograph her math book.

What the heck is wrong with me!

That’s better than the nightmares I usually have.

143 3 wood  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:53:41am

re: #126 LGoPs


He did say that he was going to fundamentally change America. For the 52% out there, is this fucking fundamental enough for ya?

I really don’t think so. I think there is a large group out there who truly don’t grasp how nasty the world is, and who are going to have to see us attacked again and again before they believe it. You can thank the MSM for a large part of that.

I hate to say it, but I think it will happen too.

144 Bob Dillon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:53:48am

There’s hope?

Republicans Lay Down the Gauntlet on Bush Prosecutions

[Link: news.aol.com…]

“Republicans made it clear that they will vigorously resist any attempt by majority Democrats to investigate former Bush Administration officials. Prosecution of former officials by the current Administration would be a first in American history and would likely have far-reaching consequences for the political system. Democrats should think carefully before they decide to go down that road. If their rhetoric is any indication, Republicans would be sure to return the favor sometime in the future.”

———————

In another article “shutting down the Government” and “Going Nuclear” were quoted from Republican congresscritters.

145 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:53:52am

re: #74 NelsFree

America must NEVER surrender sovereignty! NOBODY comes to take ANY President, living or dead!

Well if men in white coats with a nice white jacket came to take Obama away, I don’t think I’d make a lot of noise about it. ((KIDDING!))

146 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:53:57am

re: #138 Erik The Red

ROTFLMAO. Excellent.

“AN ERROR OCCURRED - PLEASE TRY LATER”

GAH!

147 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:54:03am

re: #139 funky chicken

Idiotic. The perps are in jail. The commanding general was a Clintonite affirmative action woman who thought she was above the whole “doing her job” thing, etc.

Perhaps Hillary is pushing this in a effort to help out her old friend or something. It does seem that an awful lot of Clintonite generals/admirals have moved into politics lately.

How do you think they get their appointments?

148 Capitalistincharge  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:54:03am

Obama is on path to
1. castrate our National Security
2. Place all service men & women in harms way
3. Endanger the lives of all Americans traveling abroad
4. Embolding our enemies to strike hard at America and civilians
5. humiliate America in the eyes of the rest of the world

I suspect that should the UN or anybody else try to prosecute Bush or anyone else and Obama doesn’t stop it immediately, a majority of Americans, both civilians & military won’t allow it.

149 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:54:23am

Whee - my first paleotroll since last time I criticized Ron Paul:

[Link: noblesseoblige.org…]

150 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:54:47am

re: #79 Noam Sayin’

The President is dangerously naive.

And at the risk of repeating myself, he has no knowledge of history and no geopolitical perspective.

Probably never took any substantive course while at Columbia, which is why we don’t see his transcript.

151 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:54:47am

re: #140 Ward Cleaver

Jim Carrey appears to have had too much red bull.

152 Viking6  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:55:09am

re: #65 Kosh’s Shadow

40.75002,-73.96767

153 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:55:45am

re: #145 Russkilitlover

Well if men in white coats with a nice white jacket came to take Obama away, I don’t think I’d make a lot of noise about it. ((KIDDING!))

Me neither…and I’m not kidding…:)

154 Rancher  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:55:56am

How much more self destructive can a country be than to host and fund a hostile government within its borders. I’m surprised we haven’t been hit by terrorists with UN diplomatic immunity yet.

155 opinionated  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:56:11am

re: #108 looking closely

Its primarily Giuliani’s fault he lost, relying on the “take Florida” strategy. He put all his electoral eggs in one basket, so to speak.

He had no choice. Where they elect God’s candidate, Iowa, he had no chance. If he were competing with McCain in NH, he would have eliminated both of them.

156 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:56:18am

Mandy, since you mentioned McCain, it is imperative that we close all primaries to Party members only. Especially in New Hamstershire!

157 Shug  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:56:20am
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

President Obama is relinquishing US sovereignty in favor of international law,

These two things are mutually exclusive.

158 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:57:14am

re: #154 Rancher

How much more self destructive can a country be than to host and fund a hostile government within its borders. I’m surprised we haven’t been hit by terrorists with UN diplomatic immunity yet.


I think the UN has some people smart enough to make sure there is no direct connection, like UN papers.
“Achmed, if you are caught or killed, the Secretary General will disavow any knowledge of your actions”

159 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:57:42am

re: #144 Bobibutu

There’s hope?

Republicans Lay Down the Gauntlet on Bush Prosecutions

[Link: news.aol.com…]

In another article “shutting down the Government” and “Going Nuclear” were quoted from Republican congresscritters.

Good on them!

160 lightspeed  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:58:08am

I hope they go forward with this. Putting Bush administration officials on trial in a political show trial will lose the Obama administration even more support. Allowing it it to happen in front of the U.N. would totally destroy Obama’s support, except from the moonbats on the left.

P.S. - I have to admit, I am scared that I might be wrong…

161 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:58:22am

re: #149 Thanos

Whee - my first paleotroll since last time I criticized Ron Paul:

[Link: noblesseoblige.org…]

Wow, is “Gail S.” a seer?

I didn’t expect the MSM to let us know about the American Energy Act, or the Rapid Economic Recovery Act of July 2009 and Oct 2009 respectively, but even the conservative bloggers just moaned and wrung their hands because the Republicans were the “party of NO”.

162 Darwin Akbar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:58:25am

re: #111 alegrias


As I told a moonbat friend the other day, the MSM had no use for Meghan McCain during the election, as she actually supported her father. Once he lost, they will use her as a Useful Idiot, anointing her as “the future of the Republican party,” since she’s ready to attack conservatives at the drop of a hat.

She’s too clueless to realize that they’ll do to her just like what they did to her father - he was their favorite Republican, a “maverick who is willing to reach across the isle” until he actually dared try to deny the Chosen One his Rightful Throne. Once he dared speak against he Chosen One, McCain became Bull Connor. ….until the day he lost.

I still don’t know how Giuliani blew it so badly….but it speaks very poorly for us that an electorate had no use for Mitt Romney - a man who had executive experience, created jobs and ran companies that made money - was willing to anoint an amateur who, when given control over Other People’s Money (i.e., Annenberg Challenge Grants), pissed millions away on dubious left wing causes.

163 Syrah  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:58:33am

re: #144 Bobibutu

There’s hope?

Republicans Lay Down the Gauntlet on Bush Prosecutions

[Link: news.aol.com…]

“Republicans made it clear that they will vigorously resist any attempt by majority Democrats to investigate former Bush Administration officials. Prosecution of former officials by the current Administration would be a first in American history and would likely have far-reaching consequences for the political system. Democrats should think carefully before they decide to go down that road. If their rhetoric is any indication, Republicans would be sure to return the favor sometime in the future.”

———————

In another article “shutting down the Government” and “Going Nuclear” were quoted from Republican congresscritters.

This insanity has to be shut down. Our tradition of smooth transitions of power from one administration to the next and from one party to the next is being put at risk. That we have not had political prosecutions of past administrations and parties is one of the few things that has kept the US from going the way of too many of our south of the border Banana Republic neighbors.

164 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:58:45am

re: #158 Kosh’s Shadow

I think the UN has some people smart enough to make sure there is no direct connection, like UN papers.
“Achmed, if you are caught or killed, the Secretary General will disavow any knowledge of your actions”

Achmed still has problems getting through Check Point B…:)

165 opinionated  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:58:49am

re: #123 alegrias

* * *
IF Giuliani runs for Governor of NY, I hope you will all knock yourselves out getting him elected.

He would be a terrible waste in Albany.

In Washington, on the other hand, as Senator, he has the balls to take on Obama head on.

And open the eyes of those who didn’t recognise his talents and abilities for maybe next time.

166 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:58:58am

re: #156 NelsFree

Mandy, since you mentioned McCain, it is imperative that we close all primaries to Party members only. Especially in New Hamstershire!

I’d like to see one day for all the primaries, take some of the emphasis off of Iowa and New Hampshire. No reason for such small states to take all the steam out of one candidates sails and allow unfavorable candidates like Huckabee get a boost for no reason other than religion.

167 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:59:15am

re: #160 lightspeed

I hope they go forward with this. Putting Bush administration officials on trial in a political show trial will lose the Obama administration even more support. Allowing it it to happen in front of the U.N. would totally destroy Obama’s support, except from the moonbats on the left.

P.S. - I have to admit, I am scared that I might be wrong…

I think the MSM would eat it up, as would way too many Obama supporters.

168 joncelli  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:59:31am

re: #159 NelsFree

Once Al Franken is seated, it will be next to impossible for Republicans to resist cloture — which means next to impossible to filibuster. Dark times ahead.

169 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:59:44am

re: #97 pegcity

Obama makes Jimmy Carter look competent

I’m not sure I’d go THAT far.

170 Shug  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 10:59:55am

re: #166 soxfan4life

I’d like to see one day for all the primaries, take some of the emphasis off of Iowa and New Hampshire. No reason for such small states to take all the steam out of one candidates sails and allow unfavorable candidates like Huckabee get a boost for no reason other than religion.

1000 updings.

and dicksville notch NH can go f themselves. nobody cares if you vote at 1 minute after mignight.

171 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:00:23am

re: #141 alegrias

* * * *
Giuliani had multiple wife issues in case you forget plus he was married to his cousin the first time. The press was salivating over that plus his disgruntled kids.

You’re nuts if you think the NYT wouldn’t touch that.

Its not a question of whether or not the NYT would have “touched” it, its a question of whether or not it would have mattered.

The NYT, as you recall, ran a baseless slime piece on McCain accusing him of having an affair with a staffer. They’ll slime any Republican candidate, that’s what they do.

Again, Giuliani would have wiped the floor with Obama during the debates. Whether or not he (or any other Republican candidate) would have been able to win the election, that I don’t know.

172 Orangutan  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:00:29am

A generation ago, we had a present who was a lead apologist, who “reached out” to our opposition and pandered to them (anyone remember the hilariously unenforceable Soviet-American arms Limitation treaties?), who promised a lot of change … and unwittingly delivered.

I agree with the prior poster that America needs to see what she has elected. Selling out the CIA, the defense department, Justice, and everyone else (rather than running these departments with a firm hand) is immature, at best. At the end, I am afraid we will find we have nothing but a hollow piece of the Chicago political machine whose only focus was on the election, not what happens afterward. The “Hope” in all this is that Whoopi, Oprah, and scores of other wackos insisting this disciple of Jeremiah Wright and ACORN was our only bet will be discredited for another generation so we can find someone of some substance willing to admit that there is an “American Way”.

173 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:00:55am
VIENNA – The U.S. is obligated by a United Nations convention to prosecute Bush administration lawyers who allegedly drafted policies that approved the use of harsh interrogation tactics against terrorism suspects, the U.N.’s top anti-torture envoy said Friday.

sounds to me like the UN has already decided these folks are guilty.

174 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:01:00am

re: #167 Ward Cleaver

I think the MSM would eat it up, as would way too many Obama supporters.

About the only thing they’ll be able to do is get up and walk out. It’s only symbolic, and who knows whether it would have any impact.

175 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:01:16am

re: #97 pegcity

Obama makes Jimmy Carter look competent

I’m not sure anyone would make Jimm-ay look competent, but Obama would give him a run for his money.

176 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:01:16am

and not to forget… I keel you!

177 Opinionated  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:01:17am

re: #97 pegcity

Obama makes Jimmy Carter look competent

Obama and Carter prove that idiocy and incompetence comes in all colors.

178 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:01:29am

re: #168 joncelli

Once Al Franken is seated, it will be next to impossible for Republicans to resist cloture — which means next to impossible to filibuster. Dark times ahead.

Come time to seat a SCOTUS Justice could really be scary, given that he has put a tax cheat in charge of Treasury can we expect a pedophile or serial rapist/killer on the Supreme Court?

179 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:01:53am

re: #174 Ward Cleaver

About the only thing they’ll be able to do is get up and walk out. It’s only symbolic, and who knows whether it would have any impact.

Crap, quoted wrong post. Lemme try that again.

180 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:01:55am

Some one earlier may have said this but it bears repeating. if it is so vitally important to release secret reports and pictures of our alleged torture techniques….why can’t we also occasionally show pictures of the planes slamming into our buildings? or are those pictures no longer noteworthy?

181 jcm  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:04am

re: #143 3 wood

I really don’t think so. I think there is a large group out there who truly don’t grasp how nasty the world is, and who are going to have to see us attacked again and again before they believe it. You can thank the MSM for a large part of that.

I hate to say it, but I think it will happen too.

This country been so safe, so successful, for so long too many have forgotten the effort it has taken to make this country safe and successful. They have forgotten the what it has taken to establish the security of the nation. The blood the cost and the effort to make us secure. The risk, effort and labor that has established the success of this country.

Our security and success is taken for granted, that it both are in some a natural thing. They have forgotten the past, forgotten security and success require enormous effort to attain and maintain.

In that forgetting they are willing to undo everything for “fundamental” change. They do not remember or realize than the change they want will change the very thing they take for granted, the security and success they so enjoy.

182 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:14am

re: #163 Syrah

This insanity has to be shut down. Our tradition of smooth transitions of power from one administration to the next and from one party to the next is being put at risk. That we have not had political prosecutions of past administrations and parties is one of the few things that has kept the US from going the way of too many of our south of the border Banana Republic neighbors.

Bush 41 transitioned to Clinton smoothly. Clinton’s staff removed W’s from computer keyboards. Bush 43 went out of his way to have a smooth transition to Obama. Obama is releasing documents to prepare for legal action against 43.
One side is playing fair…one is not.

183 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:19am

re: #168 joncelli

Once Al Franken is seated, it will be next to impossible for Republicans to resist cloture — which means next to impossible to filibuster. Dark times ahead.

About the only thing they’ll be able to do is get up and walk out. It’s only symbolic, and who knows whether it would have any impact.

184 tfc3rid  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:24am

I am still of the thinking that the mere mention of this possibility was enough to open Pandora’s Box… At this point, there doesn”t even have to be amny trials, commissions…

The Dems wanted all along to get Bush and now they are hoping that the Extreme Left will bust out the pitchforks…

And as we keep doing this, we are going to get hit again and hit hard… Thousands more Americans, our own people, will be killed… How will Americans react? I know how I will, if I am alive, that is…

185 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:33am

re: #128 Capitalist Tool

50% are below average…

That’s for sure.

186 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:33am

Johnny Cash has something to say to the UN.

187 Rancher  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:54am

re: #158 Kosh’s Shadow

I think the UN has some people smart enough to make sure there is no direct connection, like UN papers.
“Achmed, if you are caught or killed, the Secretary General will disavow any knowledge of your actions”

188 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:02:55am

re: #180 LGoPs

Some one earlier may have said this but it bears repeating. if it is so vitally important to release secret reports and pictures of our alleged torture techniques….why can’t we also occasionally show pictures of the planes slamming into our buildings? or are those pictures no longer noteworthy?

The pictures of people jumping were censored from the very beginning.

189 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:03:01am

re: #166 soxfan4life

I’d like to see one day for all the primaries, take some of the emphasis off of Iowa and New Hampshire. No reason for such small states to take all the steam out of one candidates sails and allow unfavorable candidates like Huckabee get a boost for no reason other than religion.

* * **
Let’s let MINNESOTA decide who should be our candidates! Hmmm, Al Franken or Norm Coleman? Decisions, decisions.

Minnesota’s nice & normal, isn’t it?

190 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:03:21am

re: #183 Ward Cleaver

About the only thing they’ll be able to do is get up and walk out. It’s only symbolic, and who knows whether it would have any impact.

That has happened before. I remember reading about that same setup back in the 1850s. Details are fuzzy.

191 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:03:29am

re: #180 LGoPs

Some one earlier may have said this but it bears repeating. if it is so vitally important to release secret reports and pictures of our alleged torture techniques….why can’t we also occasionally show pictures of the planes slamming into our buildings? or are those pictures no longer noteworthy?


Those pictures have no use to this administration.

192 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:03:47am

re: #168 joncelli

You harshed my mellow!
/

193 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:04:03am

re: #182 NelsFree

Bush 41 transitioned to Clinton smoothly. Clinton’s staff removed W’s from computer keyboards. Bush 43 went out of his way to have a smooth transition to Obama. Obama is releasing documents to prepare for legal action against 43.
One side is playing fair…one is not.

The thought of being prosecuted for decision-making could cause some administration to decide not to cede power. Banana republic, here we come.

194 cinnabar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:04:08am

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Time to take George Carlins advice about Leading, Following or Getting out of the way.

FUCK THAT, OBSTRUCT.

The Lead, Follow or Get out of the Way quote was from Thomas Paine.
It pays to play Empire:Total War. There are some great quotes on that game’s transition screens.

195 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:04:18am

re: #188 Alouette

The pictures of people jumping were censored from the very beginning.

And the question I have is why? Was the MFM afraid of stirring us up?

196 lightspeed  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:04:27am

re: #167 Ward Cleaver

I think the MSM would eat it up, as would way too many Obama supporters.

It’s beginning to feel like the French Reign of Terror. Off with their heads!

197 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:04:48am

re: #191 soxfan4life

Those pictures have no use to this administration.

Or to the media.

198 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:04:52am

I want to go find Alinsky’s grave and piss on it.

199 joncelli  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:05:11am

re: #192 NelsFree

Sorry, but we’ve got to be ready for this. The Democrats are waiting for Al to take the oath, then it’s Senate hearings about the Bush admin from wall to wall.

200 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:05:12am

re: #173 reine.de.tout

sounds to me like the UN has already decided these folks are guilty.

* * * * *
I’ll attend an anti-UN, Hell NO, tax tea party anytime, anyplace anyhow.

201 Syrah  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:05:27am

re: #182 NelsFree

Bush 41 transitioned to Clinton smoothly. Clinton’s staff removed W’s from computer keyboards. Bush 43 went out of his way to have a smooth transition to Obama. Obama is releasing documents to prepare for legal action against 43.
One side is playing fair…one is not.

True.

It only takes one side to screw it all up.

202 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:05:28am

re: #195 LGoPs

And the question I have is why? Was the MFM afraid of stirring us up?

At the time, it was out of respect for the dead, and their loved ones.

203 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:05:29am

re: #189 alegrias

Well every one of the fifty states would have as much say in the matter. Seems more fair than letting Puerto Rico and Guam have more of a say than Montana and South Dakota because they have an earlier primary date.

204 brookly red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:05:41am

re: #191 soxfan4life

Those pictures have no use to this administration.

Those pictures have no use are dangerous to this administration.

205 Bob Dillon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:05:51am

re: #182 NelsFree

Bush 41 transitioned to Clinton smoothly. Clinton’s staff removed W’s from computer keyboards. Bush 43 went out of his way to have a smooth transition to Obama. Obama is releasing documents to prepare for legal action against 43.
One side is playing fair…one is not.

One side has class and puts country first.

206 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:06:25am

re: #198 LGoPs

…and an upding for crassness! Um, where IS his grave, by the way?

207 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:06:38am

He is blogging again. Watch this video. It is fucking hilarious.

Plus the dissident frogman looking silly on the intarweb.

208 BingoBunny  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:06:41am

B ho’s Justice Dept is right now as we speak writing memos to decide what they can or can’t do to question terrorists and not be called torturers.. we have a copy of a sample memo:

Sample intensive questioning: Agreed: we all smile at him like we know he knows we know he’s fibbing about the nuke in baby food shipments. Then we walk out of the room and act like we didn’t hear that.. is that torture? what say you all?

Sample intensive guestioning#2: Agreed we all agree to eat lambs eyes in honey first to prove to him it isn’t poisoned.. if we puke them up in his presence is that torture.. should we send him outa the room if anyone feels sick? What say you all?

/its goin to be funny when the ACLU demands Obama’s justice memos

209 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:06:45am

re: #198 LGoPs

I want to go find Alinsky’s grave and piss on it.

It will become a National Monument some time in the next 4 years.

210 CommonCents  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:06:51am
they would block for now any effort to establish an independent commission

More nuanced crap. The Attorney General is not an ‘independent commission’, so I guess they can proceed while telling the sheeple they don’t intend to. The benefit of the doubt is gone, the patience is gone, the give him a chance is over, the learning curve is a dead end. Can we quit playing footsies with the commies yet?

211 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:06:53am

re: #196 lightspeed

It’s beginning to feel like the French Reign of Terror. Off with their heads!

* * * *
That is the Left’s favorite model of change.

212 doppelganglander  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:07:03am

re: #178 soxfan4life

Come time to seat a SCOTUS Justice could really be scary, given that he has put a tax cheat in charge of Treasury can we expect a pedophile or serial rapist/killer on the Supreme Court?

He’s already said he thinks the ability to empathize (presumably with approved victim groups) is more important than the ability to apply the law fairly and equally. By that criteria, a jailhouse lawyer would be the perfect nominee.

213 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:07:08am

re: #196 lightspeed

It’s beginning to feel like the French Reign of Terror. Off with their heads!

First Lady, Madame LaFarge.

214 Orangutan  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:07:10am

I wonder if standing trial at the UN would make Michelle Obama proud of her country …. for the second time?

215 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:07:44am

re: #198 LGoPs

I want to go find Alinsky’s grave and piss on it.

* * * *
That’s infantile and gross and hardly helpful.

216 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:07:53am

re: #194 cinnabar

The Lead, Follow or Get out of the Way quote was from Thomas Paine.
It pays to play Empire:Total War. There are some great quotes on that game’s transition screens.

Paine did in fact say “Lead, Follow or Get out of the Way”

Carlin’s response to that was, “Fuck that, Obstruct.”

217 RaiderDan  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:07:58am

For the first time, I am NOT proud of my country….

Any real POTUS would have told the UN to f8ck off and die.

I really, really think Obama thinks there’s a Nobel Peace prize in this for releasing the “torture memos” and by allowing Bush lawyers who wrote them to be prosecuted.

Stroking the world’s ego of him is all that seems to matter to this man. I guarantee you, he’s looking at Jimmy Carter and Al Gore as the model. Hated at home by many, adored on the world stage.

Obama is a megalomaniac.

218 itellu3times  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:08:38am
Meanwhile, Obama (as usual) is trying to have it both ways


that’s what I’ve been saying.

I’ve been trying to explain to a libtard friend just what is wrong with putting people on trial for their mundane past actions, “nothing to worry about if you’re innocent, right sport?” just like every cop tells every suspect.

219 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:09:00am

re: #4 Big Steve

I say to the UN……If you want Bush come get him from Texas.

that deserves to be read again.

(and again, and again, and again… %-)

220 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:09:41am

Shooting missiles, anti-semitic speeches on the world stage = strongly worded letters or modestly terse reprimands from UN officials.

Writing legal statements and guidelines on policies regarding the slapping or waterboarding of subjects under the pretense of investigating terrorism and WMD = prosecution.

WTF is the UN thinking?

221 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:09:50am

re: #215 alegrias

* * * *
That’s infantile and gross and hardly helpful.

but perfectly understandable.

222 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:10:09am

re: #202 Ward Cleaver

At the time, it was out of respect for the dead, and their loved ones.

I put a more insidious motive to it. I think the media understands very well their ability to whip up emotion. As evidenced by the Rodney King video, which after being replayed endlessly for months, led to riots. They will whip the public up when it fits their goal. When it doesn’t they will make it go away.

223 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:10:12am

re: #217 RaiderDan

He’s looking to become Secretary General of the UN

224 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:10:43am

re: #207 Erik The Red

He is blogging again. Watch this video. It is fucking hilarious.

Plus the dissident frogman looking silly on the intarweb.


Never shooty before!…ROFLMAO…Thanks Erik!…:)

225 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:10:47am

re: #220 BigPapa

Shooting missiles, anti-semitic speeches on the world stage = strongly worded letters or modestly terse reprimands from UN officials.

Writing legal statements and guidelines on policies regarding the slapping or waterboarding of subjects under the pretense of investigating terrorism and WMD = prosecution.

WTF is the UN thinking?


We know exactly what the UN is thinking. Any chance to “Get Bush” is going to be taken since they couldn’t do it when he was in.

226 Shug  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:11:13am

The UN is impotent.
Very impotent

They are the most impotent peoples in the Whole Woild

227 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:11:15am

Doesn’t the US pay 25% of the UN total budget?

These trials are NOT going to happen.

This is all PR BS.

Anything but the TRILLIONS of dollars wasted, etc.

228 3 wood  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:11:30am

re: #181 jcm

Our security and success is taken for granted, that it both are in some a natural thing. They have forgotten the past, forgotten security and success require enormous effort to attain and maintain.

Yes, and a question to consider is this:

Why should any of our allies trust us ever again if we turn on our own people like this?

Why should they ever share intelligence with us ever again?

I sure would not.

229 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:12:29am

re: #227 Ben Hur

Doesn’t the US pay 25% of the UN total budget?

These trials are NOT going to happen.

This is all PR BS.

Anything but the TRILLIONS of dollars wasted, etc.

Last I looked, the US and Japan paid 40% of the budget

230 Racer X  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:12:39am

[deleted]

231 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:10am

re: #228 3 wood

They will stop looking to the US for aid when a Democrat is president.

232 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:14am

re: #228 3 wood

Yes, and a question to consider is this:

Why should any of our allies trust us ever again if we turn on our own people like this?

Why should they ever share intelligence with us ever again?

I sure would not.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the British, IIRC, pull back on the amount of intelligence shared with the US because of all the intelligence leaks that Wapo and the NYTIMES published to get at Bush over the objections of EVERYBODY?

233 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:15am

re: #220 BigPapa

Shooting missiles, anti-semitic speeches on the world stage = strongly worded letters or modestly terse reprimands from UN officials.

Writing legal statements and guidelines on policies regarding the slapping or waterboarding of subjects under the pretense of investigating terrorism and WMD = prosecution.

WTF is the UN thinking?


Well duh, they should have waterboarded the Jews, then there would be no problem. We would not have gotten any information about terrorists, but the UN would have approved.

234 lightspeed  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:26am

re: #223 soxfan4life

He’s looking to become Secretary General of the UN

No, he is looking to become the first President of the World.

235 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:31am

re: #230 Racer X

[deleted]

yeah, this *is* one of those threads, isn’t it?

236 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:34am

re: #226 Shug

The UN is impotent.
Very impotent

They are the most impotent peoples in the Whole Woild

* * * *
Not when they have the full financial support and agreement of the current US President and Democrat Congress.

237 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:44am

re: #229 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Last I looked, the US and Japan paid 40% of the budget

Japan?

Why on Earth would they do that?

238 quickjustice  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:47am

Cross posted from an earlier thread:

You really don’t get it. Obama has deferred on the issue of prosecution of Bush Administration intelligence officers to Congress. Congress, and Pelosi in particular, wants a witch hunt of CIA operatives and others in the Bush Administration. Obama is permitting the Legislative Branch to completely roll over the Executive Branch’s prerogatives. He’s failing to protect his own career people in the Executive Branch. The career people get this.

When Obama’s done giving up the Bush career operatives (who do not serve in political offices), no one in their right mind will serve the U.S., government. They’ll be prosecuted by the next Administration. Obama is surrendering the prerogatives of the Executive Branch. That’s a Constitutional disaster. And permitting political payback against members of the previous administration is something that’s only happened in third world countries up to this point.

Look for the Republicans in the next Administration to prosecute Obama and his henchmen for political crimes as payback. They’ll deserve it.

239 Racer X  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:13:59am

McCain / Palin look better every day.

240 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:14:02am

re: #182 NelsFree I was just pondering that myself. The Bush administration refused to make a big deal out of childish vandalism and he gets repaid with politically witch hunts. Republicans are partisan, Democrats are unifyers, up is down, good is evil…

241 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:14:23am

re: #228 3 wood


Why should any of our allies trust us ever again if we turn on our own people like this?

If they even do now. Britain, I’m sure, is looking at Obama with different eyes, along with France, Germany, Poland, and all others who once thought that they could get away with anti-America pandering knowing all along that America will always be there to lead any real fight. Now, they’re probably not so sure.

242 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:14:41am

re: #227 Ben Hur

Doesn’t the US pay 25% of the UN total budget?

These trials are NOT going to happen.

This is all PR BS.

Anything but the TRILLIONS of dollars wasted, etc.

* * * *
Who the hell do you think is holding the UN pursestrings in the US Congress but DEMOCRATS who AGREE with the UN, and want to EMPOWER IT further.

243 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:14:48am

re: #233 soxfan4life

Well duh, they should have waterboarded the Jews, then there would be no problem. We would not have gotten any information about terrorists, but the UN would have approved.

According to the UN (as they are now):
Waterboarding terrorists - Show trial, punish those did so.
Sending Jews to the “showers” - maybe a mildly worded letter.

244 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:15:00am

You’re all being way too hard on the UN.

Think about it! If it weren’t for the UN, how many New York City call girls and Tavern On The Green waitresses would be out of work!

///

245 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:15:15am

re: #242 alegrias

* * * *
Who the hell do you think is holding the UN pursestrings in the US Congress but DEMOCRATS who AGREE with the UN, and want to EMPOWER IT further.

The American taxpayer will not stand for it.

246 Racer X  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:15:28am

re: #235 redc1c4

yeah, this *is* one of those threads, isn’t it?

For every one step forward 0bama takes six back to the left.

247 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:15:36am

re: #239 Racer X

McCain / Palin look better every day.

Cindy McCain/ Trig Palin would look better!

248 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:15:39am

re: #239 Racer X

McCain / Palin looks better every day.

FTFY!

249 NelsFree  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:15:42am

Got to go. Later, Lizards…

FFFFFFFZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAATTTT!

MMMMMMm, dragonfly!

250 Mardukhai  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:16:02am

Anyone want to demand that the Castro Brothers hand over the sadists who tortured our Vietnam War POWs?

251 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:16:08am

re: #238 quickjustice


Let me guess. You were responding to avanti? My clue was your sentence “You just don’t get it, do you?”

252 soxfan4life  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:16:37am

re: #246 Racer X

For every one step forward 0bama takes six back to the left.

For every one step 0bama takes America takes 6 steps backwards.

253 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:16:48am

re: #247 sattv4u2

Cindy McCain/ Trig Palin would look better!

Palin and the moose would look better.

254 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:16:56am

re: #237 Ben Hur

Japan?

Why on Earth would they do that?

This is a few years old, so I assume its changed already

Japanese diplomats calculate that Japan’s gross domestic product accounts for 14.4 percent of the global economy. Japan pays 19.5 percent of the United Nations budget, or almost $1 billion a year. By contrast, the United States accounts for 30 percent of world gross domestic product, and pays 22 percent.

”Japan cannot just give sweet faces to everybody,” Yukio Okamoto, chairman of the prime minister’s Task Force on Foreign Relations, said in an interview here on Monday. ”We have to question: Why are we the only country in the world with inflated cost on our shoulders?”

255 joncelli  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:17:26am

re: #249 NelsFree

Holy shit, are you okay?

256 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:17:41am

I feel like an enemy power has taken over my country. Certainly one that is antithetical to everything I thought this country stands for.

257 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:17:41am

re: #245 Ben Hur

The American taxpayer will not stand for it.

* * * *
American Taxpayers aren’t allowed to object, or we’re considered rubes, remember? You vill pay zese new taxes and you vill LIKE it!

258 tfc3rid  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:17:47am

re: #217 RaiderDan

I have little doubt that Obama will win the Nobel Peace Prize this year…

259 Bob Dillon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:17:51am

re: #228 3 wood

Yes, and a question to consider is this:

Why should any of our allies trust us ever again if we turn on our own people like this?

Why should they ever share intelligence with us ever again?

I sure would not.

The intellectual prowess and critical thinking skills of 0 and his chosen are truly stunning and remarkable.

260 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:17:55am

re: #253 Kosh’s Shadow

Palin and the moose would look better.

even this one!

Image: poor-moose-hits-car-1.jpg

261 Racer X  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:17:56am

Bill Dance Fishing Blooper - Falls off dock with battery

262 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:18:01am

re: #245 Ben Hur

The American taxpayer will not stand for it.

The American taxpayer is too busy deciding who is going to be the next American Idol.

263 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:18:08am

re: #250 Mardukhai

Anyone want to demand that the Castro Brothers hand over the sadists who tortured our Vietnam War POWs Criminals?

/moonbat FTFY!

264 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:18:23am

I need to take a walk in the nice weather.
Clear my mind for the next step on what I’m doing at work (when I’m not reading LGF)

265 tfc3rid  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:18:31am

re: #228 3 wood

I would be wary of being an ally right now…

266 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:18:36am

Lately I’ve been getting flamed by people telling me I shouldn’t put my political opinions in the comic strip. This surprised me because I didn’t know I had any political opinions.

In one recent comic I depicted an Elbonian oil worker drilling through the back of a unicorn. Apparently something about that psychotic mess looked like an opinion about drilling in the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve. It’s hard to have a righteous opinion on the environment when you’re as selfish and uninformed as I am.

On one hand, I’m a cat-loving vegetarian who ought to care deeply about the caribou or koala bears or bats or whatever they have in Alaska. On the other hand, I live in California so I’d be willing to squeeze schoolchildren to death if I thought some oil would come out. I might feel different if I planned to visit the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve anytime soon. But I don’t know what I would do once I got there, aside from praying that I froze to death before I got eaten by a caribou, or a koala bear, or a bat.

I’ve seen pictures of the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve and I can sum it up in just two words: North Dakota. Do we really need two North Dakotas? I mean, we already have South Dakota as an emergency spare. I don’t know whom to believe about the number of critters that will get hurt by drilling in Alaska. The oil companies want me to believe that the drilling crews will be giving backrubs and chocolate to the penguins, possibly taking them to formal dances.

The environmentalists want me to believe that herds of caribou will be squeezed into a single windowless igloo and forced to make sneakers out of their own hide for ten cents an hour.

My confusion is compounded by the fact that I ran over a squirrel yesterday while taking my car into the shop. I don’t know how that’s related, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Many questions remain. Will more animals die during, a) oil drilling in the Alaskan Wilderness Preserve, or b) production of footwear for the protesters? How much oil is in the ground up there in Alaska anyway? In your heart you know that somewhere there’s a guy in a cubicle who had to come up with an estimate for his boss. He probably didn’t have the budget to do the kinds of tests he wanted to do so he just flew up there, stomped around in a big furry outfit, stuck some poles in the ground, and proclaimed it to contain five billion barrels of oil. He knew he’d be working someplace else before anyone was the wiser.

As the data worked its way up the chain of management, every manager tacked on a few billion barrels to puff up his own importance. Now we’re pretty sure that the entire planet Earth is comprised of nothing but two inches of topsoil covering a huge ball of oil.

To summarize my political opinions:

1. I don’t like unicorns
2. There is no oil in schoolchildren
3. Everyone on earth is a lying weasel

267 quickjustice  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:18:55am

Another cross post from an earlier thread:

Obama’s words [promising not to prosecute] are contradicted by his actions. The release of the CIA information publicly sets up targets for show trials and prosecutions. It’s like throwing red meat to the wolves, the press included. Obama can’t withstand the political heat he himself has created. Either he knows this, or he ‘s incompetent to serve in office. I believe he knows this.

More important, the CIA operatives know this. Gutting the CIA goes a long way towards withdrawing the U.S. from the world. Obama is an isolationist, militarily speaking. That’s a legitimate policy position, but he’s concealing it in a host of distractions.

268 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:18:56am

re: #264 Kosh’s Shadow

I need to take a walk in the nice weather.
Clear my mind for the next step on what I’m doing at work (when I’m not reading LGF)


I thought that WAS your work!

269 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:19:01am

re: #254 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Japanese diplomats calculate that Japan’s gross domestic product accounts for 14.4 percent of the global economy. Japan pays 19.5 percent of the United Nations budget, or almost $1 billion a year. By contrast, the United States accounts for 30 percent of world gross domestic product, and pays 22 percent.

”Japan cannot just give sweet faces to everybody,” Yukio Okamoto, chairman of the prime minister’s Task Force on Foreign Relations, said in an interview here on Monday. ”We have to question: Why are we the only country in the world with inflated cost on our shoulders?”


Don’t worry about it.
Pretty soon the USA’s Gross Domestic output will be much lower, so it will all even out.

270 Racer X  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:19:06am

Bill Dance Fishing Blooper - Rod pulled off boat

271 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:19:29am

re: #230 Racer X

Well said!

In these strange times, my impulses of humor by acknowledging the carnival atmosphere of politics is losing to the impulses of outrage and offense. Not a place I want to go.

272 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:20:21am

re: #262 ConservatismNow!

The American taxpayer is too busy deciding who is going to be the next American Idol.

that would be the half that doesn’t even actually pay taxes.

273 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:20:44am

Get a load of this:

This is the headline and “highlights” - I assume highlights for those who just scan.

Woman who pleaded to Obama is still struggling

Story Highlights
Homeless Henrietta Hughes made tearful plea for help from President Obama
Hughes still jobless, was given a free home but fears she will lose it
Hughes and son striking out on jobs despite retraining, visits to job center
Obama told Hughes he would help, “but there are a lot of people like you”

Afraid that she’ll “lose it.” Sounds like the big bad banks are coming to get her, no?

(CNN) — The homeless Florida woman who made a tearful plea for help from President Obama earlier this year is still jobless and struggling financially.

Henrietta Hughes caught the nation’s attention in February when she cried for help during one of Obama’s town hall meetings.

After her plea, Hughes was given a free home to live in temporarily, but she is still struggling to find a job and might soon lose that home, CNN affiliate WINK reported Thursday.

Hughes, who is in her 60s, faithfully goes to an employment center in Fort Myers in hopes of finding a job.

“It’s almost our second home,” Hughes told WINK.

She and her son have taken a computer class at the center to help land work. Hughes said she has applied for as many jobs as possible but has struck out. Her son has had no luck either.

Now Hughes says she feels time is running out. The home she lives in was donated by the wife of a Florida lawmaker, Chene Thompson, who has been trying to sell the vacant home in the Fort Myers suburb of Lavelle since 2006. Once the house sells, Hughes will have to leave.

But Thompson told CNN that she will do everything in her power to make sure Hughes is not back out on the streets even if her house sells.

Everything. Including paying her future rent. Because we can’t have the APPEARANCE that The One can’t cure leprosy, or re-attach an ear.

And with all those Dem intitlement programs, how are there homeless people at all?

274 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:20:49am

The man who smuggled out of UAE the damning torture tape of Sheikh Issa, among other things, running over another man with his Mercedes Geländewagen - that man was also held in prison for months, where he was subjected to things like this:

“They would keep him from sleeping, deny him his medications, tell him they were going to rape his wife, kill his child. They made him pose naked while they took pictures,” the lawyer alleges.

So, what say ye? Was this torture?

275 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:21:18am

Manfred Nowak, the U.N. special rapporteur on torture, might want to discuss these instances of torture and prisoner abuse in his country, Austria:

Institutional racism and torture in Austria

Report to the Austrian Government on the Visit to Austria Carried Out by the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) from 14 to 23 April 2004

In the course of the 2004 visit, the CPT’s delegation received a considerable number of allegations of physical ill-treatment of criminal suspects detained by the police. The preponderance of those allegations came from persons who had been detained in Linz and the surrounding area. The allegations heard related to both the time of apprehension and that of subsequent questioning, the risk of ill-treatment apparently being particularly high in respect of criminal suspects who did not confess immediately.
The forms of physical ill-treatment alleged concerned slaps, punches, kicks, blows to the head with a telephone book, prolonged and tight handcuffing, and the combined use of hand and ankle cuffs – linked together – for lengthy periods. In respect of several detained persons, medical members of the delegation found marks consistent with their allegations that handcuffs had been applied tightly. Further, some allegations were received of rude behaviour, verbal abuse, rough treatment during body searches and excessive psychological pressure during questioning.

Austria: before the UN Committee Against Torture: allegations of police ill-treatment

2007 Annual Report for Austria

Police officers were found guilty of crimes that effectively amount to torture. Austria does not specify the crime of torture. New legal provisions allowing forced feeding of certain groups of people came into force.
Torture and ill-treatment
276 captdiggs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:21:21am

Obama screwed up, and he knows it, I think(?) .
Now he’s trying to stuff the worms back into the can he opened.

Aside from all the security and international effects this is having, he showed that he can’t think two steps ahead on the consequences of actions he takes.

277 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:21:47am

re: #181 jcm

This country been so safe, so successful, for so long too many have forgotten the effort it has taken to make this country safe and successful. They have forgotten the what it has taken to establish the security of the nation. The blood the cost and the effort to make us secure. The risk, effort and labor that has established the success of this country.

Our security and success is taken for granted, that it both are in some a natural thing. They have forgotten the past, forgotten security and success require enormous effort to attain and maintain.
In that forgetting they are willing to undo everything for “fundamental” change. They do not remember or realize than the change they want will change the very thing they take for granted, the security and success they so enjoy.

People who haven’t had to earn what they have are more than happy to be ungrateful for and unappreciative of just what it is that has been bequeathed to them
It’s called being fucking ungrateful and it characterizes much of the Boomer generation.

278 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:22:02am

re: #198 LGoPs

I want to go find Alinsky’s grave and piss on it.

I can’t find any record on the Web about a funeral or a grave. I would guess that he was cremated.

279 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:22:23am

re: #254 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

”Japan cannot just give sweet faces to everybody,” Yukio Okamoto, chairman of the prime minister’s Task Force on Foreign Relations, said

Sounds like he wants to give this face.

280 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:22:29am

re: #262 ConservatismNow!

The American taxpayer is too busy deciding who is going to be the next American Idol.

The next episode starts in 2012.

281 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:22:59am

re: #276 captdiggs

Obama screwed up, and he knows it, I think(?) .
Now he’s trying to stuff the worms back into the can he opened.

Aside from all the security and international effects this is having, he showed that he can’t think two steps ahead on the consequences of actions he takes.

44 does not know shit if it smacked him in the face. No clue nada.

282 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:23:01am

re: #278 Ward Cleaver

I can’t find any record on the Web about a funeral or a grave. I would guess that he was cremated.

Got his ashes hauled eh?…:)

283 irongrampa  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:23:36am

I want to see this putz fail completely and spectacularly—the sooner the better.
I want the fallout from his failure to cause the left to roam the political wilderness for decades.
I want to see the next President be true to the ideals of my country.
I want this because his failure will ensure the survival of my country.

284 3 wood  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:23:54am

re: #232 Ben Hur

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the British, IIRC, pull back on the amount of intelligence shared with the US because of all the intelligence leaks that Wapo and the NYTIMES published to get at Bush over the objections of EVERYBODY?

I don’t know. But this is complete and total purging for political reasons that Joe Stalin would be proud of. Instead, he’s embracing dictators and despots.

I think we can forget about any cooperation for former allies now.

285 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:24:17am

re: #278 Ward Cleaver

I can’t find any record on the Web about a funeral or a grave. I would guess that he was cremated.

the perfect end for a flaming asshole. %-)

286 Athos  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:24:31am

re: #254 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The entire dues determination process for the UN is fundamentally based on Marx - each according to their ability to pay…..

This organization has been proven irrelevant numerous times over the last 30-40 years. Despots, who can’t even provide their own people with a legitimate right to vote, exercise that right in the UN to promote scams that fuel their corruption and Swiss bank accounts. It’s officials deal, in near inpunity, in child pornography and prostitution. It’s supposedly principled stands to promote world peace involve making excuses for dictators and tyrants who ‘grease the right skids’ - and ignoring real threats to peace and human rights. Conferences on human rights focus not on fundamental human rights (many of the countries participating are the leading abusers of human rights) but on settling and promoting petty racial hatreds.

At some point, reform needs to take place or the organization has to be officially recognized as the failure that the League of Nations was.

Remember, the definition of insanity is to do the same things again and again while expecting different results.

287 Mad Mullah  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:24:45am

The UN and their stupidity is enough to make any American’s blood boil. Any American who speaks highly of the UN and who trusts the UN is simply an idiot in my opinion. At worst they would be a traitor, since the UN seeks to undermine US sovereignty and is actively working towards this goal.

Besides facilitating child rape, engaging in massive criminal fraud, providing a friendly platform for dictators and murderers to share their views and waging war against democratic peoples and free speech while protecting all sorts of terrorists, I would definitely say that the US would be much better off without that shitty organization. Some people in the UN profit off of war crimes and genocide, why should the UN have any desire to fix anything in the world? The worse the world gets, the better the situation is for certain criminals in the UN.

Doesn’t the UN have any genocides to stop or children to save at the moment?

Bulldoze the UN building, sell the scrap pieces on Ebay or something.

288 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #222 LGoPs

I put a more insidious motive to it. I think the media understands very well their ability to whip up emotion. As evidenced by the Rodney King video, which after being replayed endlessly for months, led to riots. They will whip the public up when it fits their goal. When it doesn’t they will make it go away.

You notice I said, “At the time…” Now, it’s because the MSM wants everyone to forget about that day, because the MSM doesn’t care about America.

289 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:12am

re: #276 captdiggs

Obama screwed up, and he knows it, I think(?) .
Now he’s trying to stuff the worms back into the can he opened.

Aside from all the security and international effects this is having, he showed that he can’t think two steps ahead on the consequences of actions he takes.

Worng! This was a calculated move. He views it as win/win
WIN,,,, he shows the “world community” thta he is serious about a new era in the USA
WIN,,,,he appeases the far left that swept him into office by following up on the Bush Is Bad campaign tour
WIN,,, if he calls off Holder and there is NO prosecutions he’ll do it in the name of “Healing the country and reaching out to the other side”
WIN,, if he allows the prosecutions he further strengthens his base, and whats the consequences? NONE, those of us that think its farcical still will!

290 nyc redneck  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:42am

o has always been a fan of international law. he is after all a self proclaimed
citizen of the world. he doesn’t show any pride in being an AMERICAN citizen. he goes abroad and apologizes for his own country and says demeaning
insulting things.
it is shameful to witness this behavior in the potus.
he revels in the applause he gets from our enemies and moldy
european ‘friends’. he doesn’t see america as worthy of respect.
he seems to be waffling in going forward w/ prosecuting americans
for harsh interrogation tactics, but he really would like to go forward w/ this.
i don’t think he will, tho. too much would be revealed that could come back on him. ultimately he will do what is best for him and unfortunately for him, it
most likely will mean having to back off the “torturers”.
also, pelosi will bitch slap the hell of of him and remind him of his puppet status.
she will shut him down.

291 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:44am

re: #281 Erik The Red

please see my #289

292 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:45am

Remember the hubub over the millitary recruiting numbers the MSM tried to create towards the end of the Iraq war year one?

When can we expect an expose on the effect that Obama’s policies are now having on recruitment of intelligence and homeland security agencies?

(not holding breath)

293 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:47am

re: #283 irongrampa

unfortunately, a lot of good people are going to pay with their lives for his willful incompetence.

294 tfc3rid  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:51am

re: #284 3 wood

I don’t know. But this is complete and total purging for political reasons that Joe Stalin would be proud of. Instead, he’s embracing dictators and despots.

I think we can forget about any cooperation for former allies now.

So who was the divisive one? George W. Bush or Barack H. Obama?

295 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:25:54am

re: #280 Ben Hur

The next episode starts in 201210.

The long campaign slog will begin next year.

296 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:26:51am

re: #288 Ward Cleaver

You notice I said, “At the time…” Now, it’s because the MSM wants everyone to forget about that day, because the MSM doesn’t care about America.

Very much in agreement with you.

297 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:27:37am

re: #272 redc1c4

that would be the half that doesn’t even actually pay taxes.

* * * *
And since the welfare taking half aren’t photographed objecting to paying higher taxes, they’re considered BETTER Americans!

298 Kragar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:27:39am

re: #295 Ward Cleaver

The long campaign slog will begin next year.

Obama already has a 100 day lead on us.

299 HippieforLife  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:27:40am

Kind of OT:
Apparently the photo on Washingtonian Magazine of the O topless has been photoshopped. They gave his skin a more burnished tone and turned the shorts he had on red.

WTF?

300 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:27:43am

re: #278 Ward Cleaver

I can’t find any record on the Web about a funeral or a grave. I would guess that he was cremated.

Maybe Anlynski got the “Go straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200” card.

301 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:27:44am

re: #292 DaddyG

Remember the hubub over the millitary recruiting numbers the MSM tried to create towards the end of the Iraq war year one?

When can we expect an expose on the effect that Obama’s policies are now having on recruitment of intelligence and homeland security agencies?

(not holding breath)

i’m waiting to see what retention numbers are for the armed services.

302 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:28:13am

Posted again in case you missed it. ROTF funny.

Cartridge vs Bullet

AKA My Broomstick.

303 Russkilitlover  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:28:36am

I sure hope this whole torture stuff doesn’t affect the 2 Americans taken prisoner in NoK and the 1 American taken prisoner in Iran.

Obama is playing with fire.

304 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:28:43am

re: #273 Ben Hur

Get a load of this:

This is the headline and “highlights” - I assume highlights for those who just scan.

Woman who pleaded to Obama is still struggling

Everything. Including paying her future rent. Because we can’t have the APPEARANCE that The One can’t cure leprosy, or re-attach an ear.

And with all those Dem intitlement programs, how are there homeless people at all?

Check that out - I think the woman who loaned Hughes the house is the wife of a REPUBLICAN.

305 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:30:07am

re: #274 Cato the Elder

The man who smuggled out of UAE the damning torture tape of Sheikh Issa, among other things, running over another man with his Mercedes Geländewagen - that man was also held in prison for months, where he was subjected to things like this:


So, what say ye? Was this torture?

It depends.

Was the UAE a free representative democracy at the time, attacked by totalitarian terrorists in an unprovoked act of war the murdered 3000 of its civilians with the aim to bring down the country most able to stop their global domination, that used harsh interrogation techniques agianst the planners and executers of said attack to expose vital information to stop (and did stop) an existing and imminent plan to murder thousands more in another one of its cities?

Or was it just some tin pot oil rich brother of a illigitamate back water desert monarch of a sand prision that practices religious, gender, class, race, and cultural apartheid and supremecism doing a Sopranos style “pay back” on a poor farmer that pissed him off?

306 Killian Bundy  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:30:33am

What about our extraordinary rendition programs? You know, where we send bad people to countries like Egypt to undergo real torture. Are we going to investigate that too?

/wasn’t Bill Clinton the one who first authorized extraordinary rendition, are we going to persecute the Clinton administration too, as long as we’re at it?

307 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:30:36am

re: #302 Erik The Red

Posted again in case you missed it. ROTF funny.

Cartridge vs Bullet

AKA My Broomstick.

A classic from Dissident Frogman.

I just wish he didn’t dress like an IRA thug.

308 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:31:29am

re: #302 Erik The Red

Posted again in case you missed it. ROTF funny.

Cartridge vs Bullet

AKA My Broomstick.

That’s 2 keyboards, one bottle of coke, and a very wet and pissed off cat…Erik your on a roll…:)

309 irongrampa  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:31:41am

re: #293 redc1c4

True.

310 captdiggs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:31:47am

re: #289 sattv4u2

Worng! This was a calculated move. He views it as win/win
WIN,,,, he shows the “world community” thta he is serious about a new era in the USA
WIN,,,,he appeases the far left that swept him into office by following up on the Bush Is Bad campaign tour
WIN,,, if he calls off Holder and there is NO prosecutions he’ll do it in the name of “Healing the country and reaching out to the other side”
WIN,, if he allows the prosecutions he further strengthens his base, and whats the consequences? NONE, those of us that think its farcical still will!

I disagree.
He went to the CIA to try and undo the damage…that has failed.
He only now…maybe…understands that a weakened CIA means greater risk of attack on the US, for which he will be squarely blamed for any intelligence shortfall.
And he severely underestimated foreign and UN views on this, vis-a-vis demanding prosecution.
I think he did this on a petulant impulse to appease his leftist base and failed to see the ramifications.
That in itself is an indication of very poor leadership abilities.

311 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:34:54am

re: #274 Cato the Elder

The man who smuggled out of UAE the damning torture tape of Sheikh Issa, among other things, running over another man with his Mercedes Geländewagen - that man was also held in prison for months, where he was subjected to things like this:

“They would keep him from sleeping, deny him his medications, tell him they were going to rape his wife, kill his child. They made him pose naked while they took pictures,” the lawyer alleges.

So, what say ye? Was this torture?

It depends.

1) How much sleep deprivation? If done at a controlled level, it’s an interrogation technique that has been used by Western countries for a long time. In excessive levels, it can drive people mad or kill them. To my knowledge, there is no allegation of the latter regarding Gitmo.

2) Denying vital medications would be something like torture. To my knowledge, nothing like that was done at Gitmo. Quite the contrary… many of the detainees received the best medical care they ever had.

3) Threatening to rape/kill relatives is not nice, but probably not “torture”. I am not aware of that happening in Gitmo.

4) Naked photos are not torture.

312 Earick  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:35:25am

re: #5 brookly red

New York!?! LOL

313 TheMatrix31  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:35:32am

re: #306 Killian Bundy

What about our extraordinary rendition programs? You know, where we send bad people to countries like Egypt to undergo real torture. Are we going to investigate that too?

/wasn’t Bill Clinton the one who first authorized extraordinary rendition, are we going to persecute the Clinton administration too, as long as we’re at it?

Of course not. Only Republicans! They’re the only ones!

/

314 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:35:58am

re: #310 captdiggs

I disagree.
He went to the CIA to try and undo the damage…that has failed.
He only now…maybe…understands that a weakened CIA means greater risk of attack on the US, for which he will be squarely blamed for any intelligence shortfall.
And he severely underestimated foreign and UN views on this, vis-a-vis demanding prosecution.
I think he did this on a petulant impulse to appease his leftist base and failed to see the ramifications.
That in itself is an indication of very poor leadership abilities.

Whaddya expect? The guy’s sole experience is in being a community organizer….aka agitator for crying out loud.
/ Not bitching at you captdiggs - just supremely frustrated and angry.

315 TheMatrix31  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:36:03am

re: #311 Occasional Reader

It depends.

4) Naked photos are not torture.

Unless it’s of Rosie O’Donnell and I’m forced to look.

316 3 wood  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:36:19am

re: #294 tfc3rid

So who was the divisive one? George W. Bush or Barack H. Obama?

In my opinion, Obama is doing everything he can to damage the US and turn us into a crippled socialist state that will be dominated by his party fro a generation

317 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:36:39am

Life is too short

318 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:36:46am

re: #306 Killian Bundy

What about our extraordinary rendition programs?

Personally, I think I can do an extraordinary rendition of “Luck, Be a Lady Tonight”, under the proper blood alcohol content/karaoke bar conditions.

319 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:36:50am

re: #310 captdiggs

He went to the CIA & promised them they would not be prosecuted. Obama knows he can be screwed by the CIA if he goes after them. The politicians and administration officials are still open season. That is who the “truth commission” will target, which is what Obama wants. These investigations will keep his political opponents tied up for months and years, leaving him free to push his agenda. Obama sis not screw up. He’s right on track.

320 tfc3rid  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:37:10am

re: #316 3 wood

In my opinion, Obama is doing everything he can to damage the US and turn us into a crippled socialist state that will be dominated by his party fro a generation

The domination will be complete with ‘Comprehensive Immigration Reform’

321 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:37:13am

re: #318 Occasional Reader

Personally, I think I can do an extraordinary rendition of “Luck, Be a Lady Tonight”, under the proper blood alcohol content/karaoke bar conditions.

The very definition of torture. /

322 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:38:16am

re: #307 Occasional Reader

A classic from Dissident Frogman.

I just wish he didn’t dress like an IRA thug.

He wants his audience, the MSM, to be able to relate to the instructor in a positive way!

323 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:38:21am

re: #303 Russkilitlover

I sure hope this whole torture stuff doesn’t affect the 2 Americans taken prisoner in NoK and the 1 American taken prisoner in Iran.

Don’t worry, Hillary has expressed how “deeply disappointed” she is about that. So they’ll be released any day now.

/

324 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:38:32am

re: #315 TheMatrix31

Unless it’s of Rosie O’Donnell and I’m forced to look.

how about her, Oprah and Helen Thomas playing naked Twister?

325 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:38:51am

Tomorrow I campaign for a wonderful woman who defended Scooter Libby & Dick Cheney. We all can do something to counter the current oppressive wrong turn our leaders have taken.

326 albusteve  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:39:13am

re: #324 redc1c4

how about her, Oprah and Helen Thomas playing naked Twister?

I’d turn into a Pillar of Salt

327 TheMatrix31  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:39:46am

re: #324 redc1c4

how about her, Oprah and Helen Thomas playing naked Twister?

If I had anything in my stomach right now, it would most certainly be on the floor, or the chick sitting next to me.

328 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:39:49am

re: #316 3 wood

In my opinion, Obama is doing everything he can to damage the US and turn us into a crippled socialist state that will be dominated by his party fro a generation

Agreed. This underlines a view I’ve become convinced of. To the Democrats, the first and only loyalty is to the Party, not the country.

329 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:39:59am

re: #310 captdiggs

I disagree.
He went to the CIA to try and undo the damage…that has failed.
He only now…maybe…understands that a weakened CIA means greater risk of attack on the US, for which he will be squarely blamed for any intelligence shortfall.
And he severely underestimated foreign and UN views on this, vis-a-vis demanding prosecution.
I think he did this on a petulant impulse to appease his leftist base and failed to see the ramifications.
That in itself is an indication of very poor leadership abilities.

you give the shithead too much credit.

330 cosmo  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:40:10am

Right…and the UN human rights council will appoint the judges. We’ll have a Libyan, an Iranian, a Cuban…this will be terrific! Justice will finally be served!

Regards,
Keith Olbermann

331 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:40:28am

re: #324 redc1c4

how about her, Oprah and Helen Thomas playing naked Twister?

Wasn’t that a movie?
When worlds collide.

332 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:40:28am

re: #324 redc1c4

how about her, Oprah and Helen Thomas playing naked Twister?

For the second time today, I threw up a little in my mouth.

333 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:40:33am

re: #323 Occasional Reader

Don’t worry, Hillary has expressed how “deeply disappointed” she is about that. So they’ll be released any day now.

/

* * **
Hillary & Bill watched the Taliban take over millions as hostages in Afghanistan, and expressed the same deep disappointment, back in the 1990s.

Same as it ever was when Dems do dances with dictators.

334 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:40:48am

re: #306 Killian Bundy

…wasn’t Bill Clinton the one who first authorized extraordinary rendition, are we going to persecute the Clinton administration too, as long as we’re at it?

Yup, Bill Clinton started the program. Approved by Al “render his ass” Gore, too. If Obama is unaware of this, he could ask his CIA director, John Podesta. He was Bill Clinton’s Chief of Staff at the time.

335 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:41:06am

re: #327 TheMatrix31

If I had anything in my stomach right now, it would most certainly be on the floor, or the chick sitting next to me.

guess i won’t be asking for any toppings on my ice cream today…. %-)

336 HoosierHoops  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:41:12am

re: #311 Occasional Reader

It depends.

1) How much sleep deprivation? If done at a controlled level, it’s an interrogation technique that has been used by Western countries for a long time. In excessive levels, it can drive people mad or kill them. To my knowledge, there is no allegation of the latter regarding Gitmo.

2) Denying vital medications would be something like torture. To my knowledge, nothing like that was done at Gitmo. Quite the contrary… many of the detainees received the best medical care they ever had.

3) Threatening to rape/kill relatives is not nice, but probably not “torture”. I am not aware of that happening in Gitmo.

4) Naked photos are not torture.


So you are saying naked photo’s of Helen Thomas are ok to send to Gitmo? What kind of country does that to prisoners?
/Hope you are well today OR

337 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:41:18am

re: #311 Occasional Reader

It depends.

1) How much sleep deprivation? If done at a controlled level, it’s an interrogation technique that has been used by Western countries for a long time. In excessive levels, it can drive people mad or kill them. To my knowledge, there is no allegation of the latter regarding Gitmo.

2) Denying vital medications would be something like torture. To my knowledge, nothing like that was done at Gitmo. Quite the contrary… many of the detainees received the best medical care they ever had.

3) Threatening to rape/kill relatives is not nice, but probably not “torture”. I am not aware of that happening in Gitmo.

4) Naked photos are not torture.

Check out this picture of Helen Thomas and Rosie.

Naked.

Together.

Naked.

Torture or not torture?

What say ye?

338 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:42:09am

re: #319 Kenneth

He went to the CIA & promised them they would not be prosecuted. Obama knows he can be screwed by the CIA if he goes after them. The politicians and administration officials are still open season. That is who the “truth commission” will target, which is what Obama wants. These investigations will keep his political opponents tied up for months and years, leaving him free to push his agenda. Obama sis not screw up. He’s right on track.

The US politics are sounding more and more like the shit we put up with here in Africa.
Please tell me again why I am coming back?

339 HippieforLife  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:42:11am

re: #258 tfc3rid

I have little doubt that Obama will win the Nobel Peace Prize this year…

That would be horrible!

340 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:42:47am

re: #336 HoosierHoops

Hey 2H. How are you?

341 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:42:49am

re: #334 Kenneth

Yup, Bill Clinton started the program. Approved by Al “render his ass” Gore, too. If Obama is unaware of this, he could ask his CIA director, John PodestaLeon Panetta. He was Bill Clinton’s Chief of Staff at the time.

FIFY

342 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:42:53am

This thread is becoming a cruel form of torture.

343 Orangutan  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:43:24am

re: #330 cosmo

Right…and the UN human rights council will appoint the judges. We’ll have a Libyan, an Iranian, a Cuban…this will be terrific! Justice will finally be served!

Regards,
Keith Olbermann

I’ll say this…..Dan Patrick was/is successful without Olbermann. Can’t say that the other way around.

344 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:43:28am

re: #337 Ben Hur

Check out this picture of Helen Thomas and Rosie.

Naked.

Together.

Naked.

Torture or not torture?

What say ye?

icky

345 GeicoGecko  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:43:46am

Torture?

Listening to Hillary’s cackle. That’s torture.

Being forced to see Nancy Pelosi’s grinning rictus on my TV screen. That’s torture.

Getting sprayed with Barney Frank’s spittle as he indignantly claims he had nothing to do with the banking crisis. That’s torture.

Listening to “The One” fumble his way through a teleprompterless speech. That’s torture.

346 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:44:00am

Just in. GM to kill off Pontiac division.

347 TheMatrix31  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:44:21am

re: #342 DaddyG

This thread is becoming a cruel form of torture.

Go ahead, prosecute us!

348 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:44:49am

re: #342 DaddyG

This thread is becoming a cruel form of torture.

Red Hot Chili Peppers - Torture me @ Barcelona 31-05-06

349 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:44:57am

re: #346 avanti

Just in. GM to kill off Pontiac division.

Again?!?

350 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:45:13am

re: #337 Ben Hur

Check out this picture of Helen Thomas and Rosie.

Naked.

Together.

Naked.

Torture or not torture?

What say ye?

Bring on the acid baths or wood chippers or nail pulling but this is beyond the pale. Have you no decency?
/

351 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:45:15am

re: #347 TheMatrix31

Go ahead, prosecute us!

You would enjoy it too much. /

352 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:45:23am

re: #346 avanti

Just in. GM to kill off Pontiac division.

GM was the last to know. Pontiac has been “dead” for years!

353 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:45:29am

re: #289 sattv4u2

Wrong! This was a calculated move. He views it as win/win
WIN,,,, he shows the “world community” that he is serious about a new era in the USA
WIN,,,,he appeases the far left that swept him into office by following up on the Bush Is Bad campaign tour
WIN,,, if he calls off Holder and there is NO prosecutions he’ll do it in the name of “Healing the country and reaching out to the other side”
WIN,, if he allows the prosecutions he further strengthens his base, and whats the consequences? NONE, those of us that think its farcical still will!

Obama’s fanatical base and the UN may be satisfied but he’ll alienate moderate Democrats and Independents while giving the Republican Party ammunition. I may have my disagreements with the various parties but handing American sovereignty to the UN or other foreign powers strikes a deep cord across party lines. Many would see it as Pandora’s Box of UN interventionism into American affairs. Real leaders know when to take stand and Obama will find out he can’t have it both ways. Obama may find himself in the same cross hairs should he let this nonsense continue.

354 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:45:45am

re: #346 avanti

Just in. GM to kill off Pontiac division.

I suspect this is going to look like pretty minor GM news within a matter of weeks.

It’s a shame.

355 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:45:55am

re: #341 Occasional Reader

Wops! Thanks for the correction. Major brain fart on my part.

Leon Panetta, not John Podesta.

356 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:45:57am

GM to kill off GM sounds better.

357 irongrampa  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:46:13am

re: #346 avanti

Heh. Anyone owning a ‘Vette just had their vehicle appreciate upwards.

358 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:46:34am

re: #349 Ben Hur

Again?!?


They really really mean it this time. Honest, cross their hearts and hope to go into chapter 11.

359 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:46:41am

re: #342 DaddyG

This thread is becoming a cruel form of torture.

Rosie, Oprah, Helen and HIllary in a tag team oil wrestling cage match with WAB as the ref. Ear Leader in a speedo as the round announcer.

360 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:46:44am

re: #274 Cato the Elder

The man who smuggled out of UAE the damning torture tape of Sheikh Issa, among other things, running over another man with his Mercedes Geländewagen - that man was also held in prison for months, where he was subjected to things like this:

So, what say ye? Was this torture?

Yes! Bring the Sheik to the UN! (Now, that could be torture, too.)

361 GeicoGecko  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:46:44am

re: #346 avanti

Just in. GM to kill off Pontiac division.

Nooooo! I like the Solstice!

362 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:46:56am

Palestinian Affairs: Pals at war

‘Even if Binyamin Netanyahu were to offer us a Palestinian state tomorrow morning, I’m not sure that we are prepared to meet such a huge challenge.”

These were the words of a Palestinian Authority official who briefed reporters hours after US special Middle East envoy George Mitchell held talks with PA President Mahmoud Abbas in Ramallah last week.

Binyamin Netanyahu.

Obstacle to peace.

363 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:47:57am

re: #359 redc1c4

Rosie, Oprah, Helen and HIllary in a tag team oil wrestling cage match with WAB as the ref. Ear Leader in a speedo as the round announcer.

I just had an audible snap in my head, and I seem to have forgotten half the alphabet. Thanks for that…

364 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:00am

re: #355 Kenneth

Wops! Thanks for the correction. Major brain fart on my part.

Leon Panetta, not John Podesta.

You may not like Panetta and Podesta, but I think the ethnic slur is way over the line.

:P

365 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:01am

re: #353 Idle Drifter

he’ll alienate moderate Democrats and Independents

No it won’t

They could give a rats ass about the faith of some mid-level lawyer who gave advice 7 years ago

The collective YAWN from moderate Dems and Indys will be deafening

Again, we’re talking about civilian LAWYERS being prosecuted, not MILITARY personel

366 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:10am

re: #359 redc1c4

Rosie, Oprah, Helen and HIllary in a tag team oil wrestling cage match with WAB as the ref. Ear Leader in a speedo as the round announcer.

Please just kill me now, I’m begging you.

367 Noam Chumpski  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:19am

Obama has really shown his naivete and inexperience in the handling of this.

It seems that he has no concept of unintended consequences and little understanding of how Washington works.

Who’s surprised? Show of hands?

368 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:19am

re: #307 Occasional Reader

A classic from Dissident Frogman.

I just wish he didn’t dress like an IRA thug.

He addresses why in the video itself (ie so that the AFP will listen to him).

369 Killian Bundy  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:20am

re: #334 Kenneth

Yup, Bill Clinton started the program. Approved by Al “render his ass” Gore, too. If Obama is unaware of this, he could ask his CIA director, John Podesta. He was Bill Clinton’s Chief of Staff at the time.

Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool

/what [expletive deleted] hypocrites, wringing their hands in a holier than thou drama over these namby pamby techniques, that never hurt anyone, at the same time they’re sending people to Syria to have their fingernails pulled out

370 descolada9  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:34am

Well, to sum it up for me, I’m disgusted with the way the Administration is trying to go after the previous Administration for doing what it could to protect the American people.

Meanwhile, we have the UN giving cover to tyrants and despots who actually engage in torture, or like the Saddam Hussein government that engaged in rape of women and executions. At the same time we have the murderous bastards in the form of the Castro brothers who are being sucked up to.

The Wall Street was correct in saying that prosecuting the Bush Admin people is going to come back to haunt them. They might well find a revolution on their hands that makes the tea parties look like simple social occasions (which they mostly have been, minus the idiots that showed up at some of them).

371 irongrampa  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:50am

Not sure why that post-#357 was truncated.
Rest of it should have said that after GM goes belly up.

372 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:48:51am

re: #361 GeicoGecko

Nooooo! I like the Solstice!


Just buy the Saturn version and glue on an old Pontiac emblem.

373 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:49:05am

WHITE HOUSE BRIEFING
Robert Gibbs addresses release of “abuse” photos LIVE

374 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:49:21am

re: #359 redc1c4

Rosie, Oprah, Helen and HIllary in a tag team oil wrestling cage match with WAB as the ref. Ear Leader in a speedo as the round announcer.

Brain bleach.. Getting the brain bleach now.

375 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:49:24am

re: #357 irongrampa

Heh. Anyone owning a ‘Vette just had their vehicle appreciate upwards.

Not killing off Chevy, so the Corvette is not yet a orphan. DOW took a jump just now, don’t know if related to the Pontiac news.

376 Jack Burton  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:49:49am

re: #372 DaddyG

Just buy the Saturn version and glue on an old Pontiac emblem.

I’m pretty sure if they haven’t already, GM is killing Saturn as well.

377 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:49:50am

re: #367 Noam Chumpski

Obama has really shown his naivete and inexperience in the handling of this.

It seems that he has no concept of unintended consequences and little understanding of how Washington works.

Who’s surprised? Show of hands?

Bueller raised his.

378 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:49:54am

re: #365 sattv4u2

he’ll alienate moderate Democrats and Independents

No it won’t

They could give a rats ass about the faith

379 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:50:16am

re: #346 avanti

Just in. GM to kill off Pontiac division.

Nah. They’re just carving the date into the tombstone.

Think. What was the last Pontiac? An actual Pontiac?

Vibe=Toyota Matrix
That little two-seater who’s name I can never remember is a German import.
The G8 is a Holden from Oz.
Sunfire is/was a Chevy.
Trans Am was a Chevy.
Grand Am was a Chevy.

I don’t know when the last Pontiac came out. Sad. Like the end of Oldsmobile. Or Studebaker. Or Packard. Or Crosley. Or Kaiser. Or…well…you get the idea. Once people stop buying ‘em, companies are gonna stop making ‘em.

380 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:50:24am

re: #362 Ben Hur

Palestinian Affairs: Pals at war

Binyamin Netanyahu.

Obstacle to peace.

There will NEVER be peace in the Middle East as long as the Pali’s see themselves a a seperate people. Go back to Jordan or Egypt.
oops no one wants you

381 Gus  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:50:33am

This is out of control. With the recent release of CIA memos by Barack Obama and the upcoming release of 44 photo of Gitmo detainees matters are sure to get worse. Combined with the call from Manfred Nowak as noted in this article and the threats of congressional investigations coming from congress most notably Nancy Pelosi 2009 may prove to be a media circus for the circumstance surrounding enhanced interrogation techniques.

Barack Obama is a party to these events. He is active in a passive-aggressive ploy in an attempt to deflect any blame from the damage this will cause to the CIA and the troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His passivity come in the form of weak language against a congressional witch hunt. Instead we get 2nd hand information from Robert Gibbs that now is “not a time for retribution”

As POTUS it is up to Barack Obama to take an active role in reigning in this growing national security disaster before it gets out of hand. It may be too late because this current activity put any upcoming prosecution of Gitmo detainees in serious doubt and only serves to feed the defense. Thus they have tainted the jury.

382 Van Helsing  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:50:53am

re: #369 Killian Bundy

Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool

/what [expletive deleted] hypocrites, wringing their hands in a holier than thou drama over these namby pamby techniques, that never hurt anyone, at the same time they’re sending people to Syria to have their fingernails pulled out

Cuz they are duplicitous idiots, that is why.

383 irongrampa  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:50:57am

re: #373 alegrias

That is a swipe at the military—NOT the Bush administration.

384 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:51:01am

re: #365 sattv4u2

he’ll alienate moderate Democrats and Independents

No it won’t

They could give a rats ass about the faith FATE of some mid-level lawyer who gave advice 7 years ago

The collective YAWN from moderate Dems and Indys will be deafening

Again, we’re talking about civilian LAWYERS being prosecuted, not MILITARY personel


PIMF

385 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:51:41am

re: #374 Van Helsing

Brain bleach.. Getting the brain bleach now.

you’ll need a wire b rush and a blow torch too.

/i do good w*rk

386 2-Drink Minimum  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:51:52am

The UN … as much bite as a gummi bear. Let’s draft another resolution, eh?

387 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:51:55am

Speaking of torture…

“When we return to our planet, the High Court may well sentence you to TORCH-AH!”

388 tedzilla99  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:52:54am

If there was an objective press, this administration would be the death of modern liberalism. Of course, if they were objective we wouldn’t have this administration either. But, thanks to the rush to frogmarch anyone associated with George W., we are going to be incredibly weak and there is going to be a nasty terrorist attack because of it. Thankfully we’ll have DHS Naivepolitano on hand to blame it on Canada, so no worries I guess.

389 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:53:13am

re: #376 ArchangelMichael

I’m pretty sure if they haven’t already, GM is killing Saturn as well.

I knew that, and was noticing they had a Saturn on display at the Burlington Mall yesterday. Maybe I should buy one and put it in storage until it is a collector’s item.

390 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:53:15am

re: #365 sattv4u2

he’ll alienate moderate Democrats and Independents

No it won’t

They could give a rats ass about the faith of some mid-level lawyer who gave advice 7 years ago

The collective YAWN from moderate Dems and Indys will be deafening

Again, we’re talking about civilian LAWYERS being prosecuted, not MILITARY personel

I agree, a big yawn, but I think the worst that will happen is a investigation how they found a legal basis for torture, but without prosecutions even if there advice was wrong.

391 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:53:27am

Jumping in and out of this thread so apologize if someone’s amde this comment but……….

I find it very instructive that when the Bush Administration took over and was hit on 9-11, there was absolutely no attempt to investigate or charge anyone in the Clinton administration for failing to do enough to prevent 9-11. President Bush was an adult and focused on pulling the country together and protecting it.
And these bastards and their Pravda media called him divisive.
My mind reels.

392 GeicoGecko  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:53:33am

re: #4 Big Steve

I say to the UN……If you want Bush come get him from Texas.

I was talking with a little horned toad from El Paso the other day who said that Texans are gettin’ mighty riled up. No tellin’ what they might do if Obama throws W under the UN bus.

393 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:53:49am

CSpan 2 has Gibbs presser live. Don’t know why I participate in this exercise in frustration.

394 Dave the.....  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:54:18am

There is something very wrong and dangerous when the party in power arrests members of the previous party, due to differences in policy. Or as some have said, you have criminalized politics.

395 Eowyn2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:54:43am

re: #4 Big Steve

I say to the UN……If you want Bush come get him from Texas.

and uh, good luck with that!

396 GeicoGecko  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:54:54am

re: #379 razorbacker


The G8 is a Holden from Oz.

Holdens rock. Mad Max!

397 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:54:55am

re: #389 Kosh’s Shadow

I knew that, and was noticing they had a Saturn on display at the Burlington Mall yesterday. Maybe I should buy one and put it in storage until it is a collector’s item.

Like that Edsel you have been hanging on to?

398 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:55:04am

re: #394 Dave the…..

There is something very wrong and dangerous when the party in power arrests members of the previous party, due to differences in policy. Or as some have said, you have criminalized politics.

Third World.

399 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:55:09am

The UN’s Epic Fail in Geneva by Michael Totten

RTWT!

400 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:55:21am

re: #393 snowcrash

CSpan 2 has Gibbs presser live. Don’t know why I participate in this exercise in frustration.

Watching Gibbs is educational in a “Public Speaking 101: Don’t Let This Happen To You” sort of way.

401 badger1970  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:55:48am

re: #387 Occasional Reader

“Teenagers (aged 30 or more) from Space”; bad movie great mstie episode.

402 Dave the.....  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:56:03am

Lgop…..heard the comment also recently. No one is investigating the roadblocks put up in the 1990’s that allowed 9/11 to occur. Why no congressional hearings?

Instead we have credit card compaines ordered to DC so gov’t can micro-manage them.

403 Eowyn2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:56:13am

re: #391 LGoPs

Jumping in and out of this thread so apologize if someone’s amde this comment but……….

I find it very instructive that when the Bush Administration took over and was hit on 9-11, there was absolutely no attempt to investigate or charge anyone in the Clinton administration for failing to do enough to prevent 9-11. President Bush was an adult and focused on pulling the country together and protecting it.
And these bastards and their Pravda media called him divisive.
My mind reels.

Someone on the radio made a comment that this is tantamount to Nixon bringing charges against Kennedy and Johnson for Vietnam.

404 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:56:20am

re: #364 Occasional Reader

Oh crap! I meant “woops”… that does it, I’m going home.

LOL!

405 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:56:45am

re: #401 badger1970

“Teenagers (aged 30 or more) from Space”; bad movie great mstie episode.

“Expandable legbands?! Yes, sir!”

-single funniest line IMHO

406 Eowyn2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:57:00am

re: #398 Ben Hur

Third World.

and Russia.

407 Steve  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:57:04am

I do not know but somehow this just seems to fit. Cannot put my finger on it but it will come. Probably with some sleep.

Barney Fife: “All I’m saying is that there are some things beyond the ken of mortal man that shouldn’t be tampered with. We don’t know everything, Andy. There’s plenty going on right now in the Twilight Zone that we don’t know anything about and I think we ought to stay clear.”

408 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:57:10am

Taliban Spokesman Blames American Women

By “Women,” the NYTIMES means female soldiers.

Weird healine.

409 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:57:37am

Gibbs on detainee photos “Of course the President is concerned”. Excuse me….. the Pres DID NOT fight the ACLU all the way to the Supreme Court to stop the photo release.

410 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:57:49am

There is an implicit assumption on this thread that I’m not sure you folks have actually considered.

You’re assuming that there is going to be another honest election.

Why?

Consider the looney brain-sludge that has been coming from the left for years. How the evile BusHitler was going to cancel the election and rule for a thousand years.

Projection, much?

You don’t do something this stupid and expect to retain power in an honest election.

411 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:58:00am

re: #369 Killian Bundy

Who the hell was the idiot who thought Syria was our ally in the war on terror? I mean it… who thought that was a good idea?

412 Eowyn2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:58:17am

re: #399 Kenneth

The UN’s Epic Fail in Geneva by Michael Totten

RTWT!

the UN has failed in everything.

413 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:58:38am

re: #400 Occasional Reader

Watching Gibbs is educational in a “Public Speaking 101: Don’t Let This Happen To You” sort of way.

* * * *
Oddly enough, Obama’s spokesman Robert Gibbs isn’t considered a total laughingstock by the MSM.

414 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:58:56am

re: #408 Ben Hur

Taliban Spokesman Blames American Women

Does he ask them to “keep away from me”, and implore them to “mama, let me be”?

415 tedzilla99  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:59:24am

re: #412 Eowyn2

the UN has failed in everything.

To be fair, they are really good at making dictators and third world thugs multimillionaires.

416 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:59:37am

re: #412 Eowyn2

the UN has failed in everything.

* * *
Only now they have their best supporter, the most powerful person on the planet, in the White House.

417 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:59:44am

re: #412 Eowyn2

the UN has failed in everything.

/That is neither true nor fair. They are very good at blaming the worlds ills on Israel. In that, they are spectacularly successful. Everything else? That is a different matter.

418 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:59:44am

re: #413 alegrias

* * * *
Oddly enough, Obama’s spokesman Robert Gibbs isn’t considered a total laughingstock by the MSM.

Keep it in perspective. This is the same MSM that hailed Obama as the greatest communicator since Reagan.

419 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:00:10pm

re: #397 DaddyG

Like that Edsel you have been hanging on to?

I was joking, as you probably guessed.
The only old cars we have, get driven (1996 Tercel and 1999 Civic)
The only antiques I have are a typewriter and adding machine from the 1920’s and some old computers; like a PDP-8e and an Apple ][

420 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:00:51pm

re: #381 Gus 802

This is out of control. With the recent release of CIA memos by Barack Obama and the upcoming release of 44 photo of Gitmo detainees matters are sure to get worse.

Obama has a dilemma since he promised a more open government. When the courts ruled that the documents and photos be released, if he had fought the ruling, the left would question his openeness.
I think he was told that he would lose the court challenges in the end, and decided to do the politically expedient thing and release them now rather then fight and lose latter.
The few points he’d win from the right would mean little if the documents had to be released later anyway.

421 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:02pm

re: #407 Steve

I do not know but somehow this just seems to fit. Cannot put my finger on it but it will come. Probably with some sleep.

Barney Fife: “All I’m saying is that there are some things beyond the ken of mortal man that shouldn’t be tampered with. We don’t know everything, Andy. There’s plenty going on right now in the Twilight Zone that we don’t know anything about and I think we ought to stay clear.”

Barney Fife: [angry] Oh, you’re just full of fun today, aren’t you? Why don’t we go up to the old people’s home and wax the steps?

422 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:10pm

re: #403 Eowyn2

Someone on the radio made a comment that this is tantamount to Nixon bringing charges against Kennedy and Johnson for Vietnam.

No doubt. And while we’re at it…here’s an idea for Obama and his retribution seeking leftist followers.
Let’s fucking investigate what led to the housing meltdown and the evaporation of trillions in our wealth.
I want to see witchhunts of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and….let’s also investigate Carter and Clinton for their roles in CRA and the effect it had on creating the meltdown.
You wanna investigate….then by all means let’s investigate everything.
You motherfuckers. Bring it on.

423 Dianna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:38pm

Note to readers!

As soon as I assemble all (but all) your email addys, I will be shipping out the second draft.

Brace yourselves!

424 Eowyn2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:43pm

re: #408 Ben Hur

Taliban Spokesman Blames American Women

By “Women,” the NYTIMES means female soldiers.

Weird healine.

big bad taliban scared of the little school girls.
My Daughter Wears Combat Boots (for another month anyway)

425 MJ  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:43pm

Armstrong cleared by French doping agency

(CNN) — Lance Armstrong has been cleared to ride in this year’s Tour de France after the French anti-doping agency (AFLD) confirmed they would not be launching any disciplinary procedures against the seven-time champion…


[Link: edition.cnn.com…]

426 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:45pm

Let’s all do a simultaneous experiment.

Get a large piece of white paper. Now take your keyboard and hold it over the paper. Shake it like you hate it. Shake it like you want to cross it’s eyes.

How much stuff you got? I got about half a cup.

427 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:47pm

re: #419 Kosh’s Shadow

I was joking, as you probably guessed.
The only old cars we have, get driven (1996 Tercel and 1999 Civic)
The only antiques I have are a typewriter and adding machine from the 1920’s and some old computers; like a PDP-8e and an Apple ][


I would love to get my hands on a functioning Apple ][. That was the standard classroom PC where I student taught.

428 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:01:58pm

re: #410 razorbacker

There is an implicit assumption on this thread that I’m not sure you folks have actually considered.

You’re assuming that there is going to be another honest election.

Why?

Consider the looney brain-sludge that has been coming from the left for years. How the evile BusHitler was going to cancel the election and rule for a thousand years.

Projection, much?

You don’t do something this stupid and expect to retain power in an honest election.

Watch ACORN and the Census. That’s where the fix is going in.

429 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:02:19pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

It depends.

Was the UAE a free representative democracy at the time, attacked by totalitarian terrorists in an unprovoked act of war the murdered 3000 of its civilians with the aim to bring down the country most able to stop their global domination, that used harsh interrogation techniques agianst the planners and executers of said attack to expose vital information to stop (and did stop) an existing and imminent plan to murder thousands more in another one of its cities?

Or was it just some tin pot oil rich brother of a illigitamate back water desert monarch of a sand prision that practices religious, gender, class, race, and cultural apartheid and supremecism doing a Sopranos style “pay back” on a poor farmer that pissed him off?

It does NOT depend. Either the acts themselves are torture, or they are not. The motivation has nothing to do with it. If it did, then by your logic it would be OK to mutilate, amputate, stick needles in eyes, set balls on fire or rip out fingernails under the “right” circumstances but not otherwise.

We’re on slippery ground here. Either what was done to this man was not torture, but something like S.E.R.E. or enhanced interrogation techniques, in which case we’re as innocent or guilty as the UAE prison guards; or it was torture, in which case - ditto. It’s the acts themselves we’re talking about here, not the justification.

Gets kinda complicated when you look at actual cases, doesn’t it?

And the US does engage (or has engaged) in real torture - only we outsource the really “harsh” stuff to Egypt etc. So “our” hands are clean. Right.

430 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:02:20pm

And to think polls say most Americans approve of how obama is handling the job. Boy they are either stupid, demented, unaware or just deluded. This is the most incompetent, loathesome, miserable excuse for leadership I have ever seen or even read about. Hey you get what you pay for eh?

/channeling Soros and his ilk

431 Eowyn2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:02:30pm

re: #411 Kenneth

Who the hell was the idiot who thought Syria was our ally in the war on terror? I mean it… who thought that was a good idea?

Nancy Pelosi “the road to peace goes through damascus”

432 GeicoGecko  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:02:54pm

If they put a fuzzy caterpillar on the box with me, I’d just eat it.

433 Erik The Red  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:03:02pm

re: #420 avanti

Obama has a dilemma since he promised a more open government. When the courts ruled that the documents and photos be released, if he had fought the ruling, the left would question his openeness.
I think he was told that he would lose the court challenges in the end, and decided to do the politically expedient thing and release them now rather then fight and lose latter.
The few points he’d win from the right would mean little if the documents had to be released later anyway.

He has just weaken the US by allowing this. Fuck his supporters. This is about National Defense and Security.

Once again you miss the point.

434 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:03:40pm

re: #424 Eowyn2

big bad taliban scared of the little school girls.

It still brings a smile to my face recalling that immortal “you’ve just been killed by a girl” line, uttered by an F-15E Strike Eagle weapons officer over Afghanistan.

435 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:03:45pm

re: #433 Erik The Red

He has just weaken the US by allowing this. Fuck his supporters. This is about National Defense and Security.

Once again you miss the point.

His nose is so far up obamas ass he can see his tonsils.

436 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:04:02pm

re: #431 Eowyn2

Nancy Pelosi “the road to peace goes through damascus”

It does, and it should be leveled just like Assad did with Hama.

437 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:05:03pm

re: #420 avanti

Obama has a dilemma since he promised a more open government. When the courts ruled that the documents and photos be released, if he had fought the ruling, the left would question his openeness.
I think he was told that he would lose the court challenges in the end, and decided to do the politically expedient thing and release them now rather then fight and lose latter.
The few points he’d win from the right would mean little if the documents had to be released later anyway.

I’m beginning to think that you are on the payroll.

Really.

438 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:05:16pm

re: #402 Dave the…..

Lgop…..heard the comment also recently. No one is investigating the roadblocks put up in the 1990’s that allowed 9/11 to occur. Why no congressional hearings?

Instead we have credit card compaines ordered to DC so gov’t can micro-manage them.

That was the purpose of the various 9-11 commissions. BTW, I’m glad BHO called the credit card companies in for some of their policies like raising your interest rate without a valid reason. He can only suggest they clean up their act before he suggests legislation.

439 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:05:17pm

re: #427 DaddyG

I would love to get my hands on a functioning Apple ][. That was the standard classroom PC where I student taught.

I think I could get mine functioning again (the motherboard connector to the disk controller is flaky) but I’m not giving it up.

440 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:05:33pm

re: #424 Eowyn2

big bad tali-ban scared of the little school girls.
My Daughter Wears Combat Boots (for another month anyway)

Combat Boots, great for kicking Tailiban neither region’s…:)

/S

441 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:05:40pm

re: #420 avanti

Obama has a dilemma

And you’re assuming, of course, without question, that Obama is just oh-so-terribly-reluctant to do this.

Obama’s been continuously “campaigning” against Bush since he was inaugurated. What makes you think he doesn’t want these photos released?

442 jbolty  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:06:05pm

when this is all over the only person who will be happy will be Jimmy Carter because by then he will only be the second worst president ever.

443 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:06:35pm

re: #420 avanti

Obama has a dilemma

No, We the People have a dilemma, as this president is really screwing this country over in ways that’ll ripple for decades. It’s a shame you can’t seem to see that.

444 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:06:51pm

re: #426 razorbacker

Yeah, all you spelling Nazis. I gots extra apostrophes. I got loads of extra apostrophes. I got apostrophes I haven’t even thought about using yet. Commas too.

’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,

Now back off, afore I misspell agin.

445 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:07:07pm

re: #430 bolivar
I would like the next poll to ask the respondents if they feel Obama is doing a good job with National Security.

446 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:07:24pm

re: #162 Darwin Akbar

As I told a moonbat friend the other day, the MSM had no use for Meghan McCain during the election, as she actually supported her father. Once he lost, they will use her as a Useful Idiot, anointing her as “the future of the Republican party,” since she’s ready to attack conservatives at the drop of a hat.

She’s too clueless to realize that they’ll do to her just like what they did to her father - he was their favorite Republican, a “maverick who is willing to reach across the isle” until he actually dared try to deny the Chosen One his Rightful Throne. Once he dared speak against he Chosen One, McCain became Bull Connor. ….until the day he lost.

I still don’t know how Giuliani blew it so badly….but it speaks very poorly for us that an electorate had no use for Mitt Romney - a man who had executive experience, created jobs and ran companies that made money - was willing to anoint an amateur who, when given control over Other People’s Money (i.e., Annenberg Challenge Grants), pissed millions away on dubious left wing causes.

Romney vs Obama would have become an excuse for the MSM to lecture us nonstop about the history of the LDS church, and its past racism, and nauseum.

It was bad enough watching them manage to convince a lot of people that McCain and Palin were racists. I couldn’t have stomached the Romney vs Obama race.

447 Ben Hur  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:07:31pm

re: #429 Cato the Elder

It does NOT depend. Either the acts themselves are torture, or they are not. The motivation has nothing to do with it. If it did, then by your logic it would be OK to mutilate, amputate, stick needles in eyes, set balls on fire or rip out fingernails under the “right” circumstances but not otherwise.

We’re on slippery ground here. Either what was done to this man was not torture, but something like S.E.R.E. or enhanced interrogation techniques, in which case we’re as innocent or guilty as the UAE prison guards; or it was torture, in which case - ditto. It’s the acts themselves we’re talking about here, not the justification.

Gets kinda complicated when you look at actual cases, doesn’t it?

And the US does engage (or has engaged) in real torture - only we outsource the really “harsh” stuff to Egypt etc. So “our” hands are clean. Right.


Killing a cat for fun, and killing a cat for medical research are the same thing?

448 Eowyn2  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:07:32pm

OT

Supposedly, O is now going to release more film from Iraq showing the pink panty torture of enemy combatants.

I wondered, for a moment, what he hopes to gain from this.
My only conclusion:
Full World War III mode.

There is no other f-ing reason to start releasing films and pics from five years ago. He, and his handlers, have to WANT to have a huge war and bring it home to the USA. They have to WANT to see fighting in the streets.

Of course, if there is fighting in the streets, then a police state can be imposed. Logical conclusion.

449 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:07:47pm

re: #438 avanti

That was the purpose of the various 9-11 commissions. BTW, I’m glad BHO called the credit card companies in for some of their policies like raising your interest rate without a valid reason. He can only suggest they clean up their act before he suggests legislation.

OBFUSCATION to cover up the bullshit. This looks good and will keep the rabble happy but, accomplishes nothing. The country is going to hell and he fiddles while Rome burns…….sad sad sad.

450 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:07:51pm

re: #426 razorbacker

Let’s all do a simultaneous experiment.

Get a large piece of white paper. Now take your keyboard and hold it over the paper. Shake it like you hate it. Shake it like you want to cross it’s eyes.

How much stuff you got? I got about half a cup.

Hmmm… some dried Top Ramein, a paper clip and what looks to be the remains Jimmy Hoffa’s body.

451 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:08:06pm

re: #432 GeicoGecko

If they put a fuzzy caterpillar on the box with me, I’d just eat it.

Me too! :-)

452 alegrias  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:08:28pm

re: #430 bolivar

And to think polls say most Americans approve of how obama is handling the job. Boy they are either stupid, demented, unaware or just deluded. This is the most incompetent, loathesome, miserable excuse for leadership I have ever seen or even read about. Hey you get what you pay for eh?

/channeling Soros and his ilk

* * * * *
The pollsters didn’t count all those Americans who hit the streets a couple weeks ago saying we don’t want to be taxed more for more of these crappy results.

453 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:09:16pm

Obama Administration to Release Detainee Abuse Photos; Former CIA Official Says Former Colleagues ‘Don’t Believe They Have Cover Anymore’


In a letter from the Justice Department to a federal judge yesterday, the Obama administration announced that the Pentagon would turn over to the American Civil Liberties Union 44 photographs showing detainee abuse of prisoners in Afghanistan and Iraq during the Bush administration.

The photographs are part of a 2003 Freedom of Information Act request by the ACLU for all information relating to the treatment of detainees — the same battle that led, last week, to President Obama’s decision to release memos from the Bush Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel providing legal justifications for harsh interrogation methods that human rights groups call torture.

Here we go again!

454 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:09:47pm

re: #429 Cato the Elder

Either what was done to this man was not torture, but something like S.E.R.E. or enhanced interrogation techniques, in which case we’re as innocent or guilty as the UAE prison guards

I must have missed that in the descriptions of SERE, the part where they withhold vital medications from trainees.

See my answer upthread. Merci.

455 funky chicken  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:09:49pm

re: #448 Eowyn2

OT

Supposedly, O is now going to release more film from Iraq showing the pink panty torture of enemy combatants.

I wondered, for a moment, what he hopes to gain from this.
My only conclusion:
Full World War III mode.

There is no other f-ing reason to start releasing films and pics from five years ago. He, and his handlers, have to WANT to have a huge war and bring it home to the USA. They have to WANT to see fighting in the streets.

Of course, if there is fighting in the streets, then a police state can be imposed. Logical conclusion.

I think it’s an attempt to smear the military because they have a higher approval rating than Obama.

Apparently idiots like Shep Smith are more than willing to jump on board.

456 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:10:18pm

re: #452 alegrias

* * * * *
The pollsters didn’t count all those Americans who hit the streets a couple weeks ago saying we don’t want to be taxed more for more of these crappy results.

Gotcha, don’t know who the hell they talked with but, nobody I know with half a brain would have agreed with that…..come to think of it only morons agree with that…….wonder who I am talking about?

457 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:10:25pm

re: #445 snowcrash

I would like the next poll to ask the respondents if they feel Obama is doing a good job with National Security.

The answer will depend on when you ask: now or after the next major terror attack in the US.

458 AZDave  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:10:52pm

re: #20 grahamski

“I have always been for a truth commission, because I think this is very important,” Ms. Pelosi said.

Truth?, that woman does not know the meaning of the word.

For Pelosi, the truth is something to avoid at all costs.

459 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:11:19pm

re: #444 razorbacker

Yeah, all you spelling Nazis. I gots extra apostrophes. I got loads of extra apostrophes. I got apostrophes I haven’t even thought about using yet. Commas too.

’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’, ‘,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,’,

Now back off, afore I misspell agin.

Don’t make me break out the tilde…

460 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:12:25pm

re: #457 Kenneth

The answer will depend on when you ask: now or after the next major terror attack in the US.

Damn sure hope it doesn’t take that but I am growing more and more convinced that is what it will not only take but actually occur. I pity the poor sumbitch responsible……hear that o? I pity you - and you think you can blame it all on Bush - you are not worthy to speak his name you miserable piece of excrement.

461 Idle Drifter  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:12:35pm

re: #365 sattv4u2

he’ll alienate moderate Democrats and Independents

No it won’t

They could give a rats ass about the faith of some mid-level lawyer who gave advice 7 years ago

The collective YAWN from moderate Dems and Indys will be deafening

Again, we’re talking about civilian LAWYERS being prosecuted, not MILITARY personnel

Yes, people will yawn at the idea of a Bush Administration lawyer being prosecuted. Then who in their right mind as a civilian lawyer would go work for the government where doing your job may find yourself behind bars for a memo. I’d hate to see this escalate into chipping away at who we will or will not prosecute. There may be a real consequence as who ever is elected in the next administration may have a political ax to grind against the previous administration and this will turn into a vicious cycle. Smart political play by Obama sure, he is playing the field while maintaining popularity.

462 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:12:44pm

re: #459 DaddyG

Don’t make me break out the tilde…

Oh yeah? I’ll ampersand your @ss!

463 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:13:15pm

re: #453 Kenneth

Obama Administration to Release Detainee Abuse Photos; Former CIA Official Says Former Colleagues ‘Don’t Believe They Have Cover Anymore’


Here we go again!

It would be a noble and honorable gesture if the SecDef resigned over this. It would send a strong message.

464 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:13:18pm

re: #447 Ben Hur

Killing a cat for fun, and killing a cat for medical research are the same thing?

From the cats perspective their isn’t a lot of difference.

/ducks

465 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:14:47pm

re: #410 razorbacker

There is an implicit assumption on this thread that I’m not sure you folks have actually considered.

You’re assuming that there is going to be another honest election.


They only have to win once.

466 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:14:49pm

re: #462 Kenneth

Oh yeah? I’ll ampersand your @ss!

That’s it I’m using the Wingdings of Mass Destruction!

467 bloodnok  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:15:13pm

re: #448 Eowyn2

OT

Supposedly, O is now going to release more film from Iraq showing the pink panty torture of enemy combatants.

I wondered, for a moment, what he hopes to gain from this.
My only conclusion:
Full World War III mode.

There is no other f-ing reason to start releasing films and pics from five years ago. He, and his handlers, have to WANT to have a huge war and bring it home to the USA. They have to WANT to see fighting in the streets.

Of course, if there is fighting in the streets, then a police state can be imposed. Logical conclusion.

You can’t be serious.

468 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:15:39pm

re: #457 Kenneth

The answer will depend on when you ask: now or after the next major terror attack in the US.

Here’s the 100 day poll from gallup, it goes into detail on issues if you scroll down.

poll details.

469 AZDave  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:16:26pm

re: #27 brookly red

I would like to see her do that, under oath.

As if being under oath would be a deterrent.

470 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:16:47pm

re: #412 Eowyn2

the UN has failed in everything.

not true: they’re pretty good at spending other people’s money.

471 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:18:22pm

re: #463 LGoPs

Obama is telling the CIA, the FBI, the military and anybody else who has sworn to defend the country:

“Go ahead. Do your job, but if you mess up, or take too big a risk, or if I change my mind about anything later on… you’re f*cked!”
472 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:18:30pm

re: #470 redc1c4

not true: they’re pretty good at spending wasting other people’s money.

FTFY

473 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:18:46pm

re: #450 DaddyG

Hmmm… some dried Top Ramein, a paper clip and what looks to be the remains Jimmy Hoffa’s body.

I found Judge Crator and a rivet from Amelia Earhart’s aircraft…

474 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:18:50pm

re: #459 DaddyG

Don’t make me break out the tilde…

Wave that thing at me, and my response will be grave. I’ll have you rolling on the ground in aigu-ny.

475 AZDave  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:18:53pm

re: #32 pegcity

Obama wants to turn America from the lone super power into just another hasbeen nation

never thought id see it in my lifetime

The Dems have been pushing for “Hasbeenization” for years.

476 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:19:01pm

re: #420 avanti

do you even notice what it tastes like any more?

477 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:19:11pm

re: #473 Dustyvet

I found Judge Crator and a rivet from Amelia Earhart’s aircraft…

I got a rock……

478 Dave the.....  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:19:23pm
As I told a moonbat friend the other day, the MSM had no use for Meghan McCain during the election, as she actually supported her father. Once he lost, they will use her as a Useful Idiot, anointing her as “the future of the Republican party,” since she’s ready to attack conservatives at the drop of a hat.

Heh, one of my somewhat liberal friends used to talk all the time about how much she liked John McCain (circa 2000). “He is the one Republican I would vote for in a Presidential election”.

Last fall she was ripping him apart and I reminder her about all the great things she said about him a few years before. The look I got made it worth it.

479 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:19:24pm

re: #472 bolivar

FTFY

synonyms…..

480 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:19:54pm

re: #476 redc1c4

do you even notice what it tastes like any more?

ya mean butt right? hmmmmm?

481 Dave the.....  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:20:49pm

Someone said (I read too many blogs, can’t remember who) that what is going on with our intellegence people is like what they did to Vietnam vets in the mid-70s.

482 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:21:13pm

re: #479 redc1c4

synonyms…..

homonyms, antonyms escape from nims…..all the same - just letters on a screen

483 Dustyvet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:21:31pm

re: #481 Dave the…..

Someone said (I read too many blogs, can’t remember who) that what is going on with our intellegence people is like what they did to Vietnam vets in the mid-70s.

Yup…

484 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:23:43pm

re: #423 Dianna

Note to readers!

As soon as I assemble all (but all) your email addys, I will be shipping out the second draft.

Brace yourselves!

add me: just use my nick at sbcblobal dot net

485 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:25:49pm

re: #463 LGoPs

It would be a noble and honorable gesture if the SecDef resigned over this. It would send a strong message.

if we only had a noble and honorable SecDef. instead we have someone who doesn’t see anything wrong with Ear Leader’s defense budget and plans.

486 Dianna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:28:11pm

The novel has gone out.

Please let me know when you get it, readers.

487 GeicoGecko  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:28:16pm

re: #485 redc1c4


Ear Leader? ROFLMAO!

488 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:28:41pm

re: #455 funky chicken

Apparently idiots like Shep Smith are more than willing to jump on board.

I agree with both Mccain and Shep, but Shep said it best. “We are American’s, we don’t fucking torture ” I’m actually amazed at the number of Americans that think we should become the same sort of slime the terrorists are. To me, once we stoop to their level, we’ve lost the principles our fore fathers stood for.

489 looking closely  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:31:14pm

re: #453 Kenneth

Obama Administration to Release Detainee Abuse Photos; Former CIA Official Says Former Colleagues ‘Don’t Believe They Have Cover Anymore’

Here we go again!


Obama is just shooting himself (and the rest of the country) in the foot.

Does he not remember Abu Ghraib?

Let it go…

490 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:31:16pm

2998 divided by 183 = 16.38

…or one waterboarding for every 16.38 people murdered on 9-11

491 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:31:20pm

re: #488 avanti
What was done at gitmo wasn’t torture. Ask John McCain what torture is.

492 Occasional Reader  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:32:26pm

re: #488 avanti

I’m actually amazed at the number of Americans that think we should become the same sort of slime the terrorists are.

So, you think the CIA officers who interrogated AQ suspects are “the same sort of slime the terrorists are”?

493 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:33:19pm
494 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:33:43pm

re: #488 avanti

What does that mean?

Did we stoop to ‘their’ level?

495 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:34:06pm

re: #492 Occasional Reader
Obviously the left does.

496 MPH  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:34:06pm

Leadership!

497 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:34:54pm

re: #491 pingjockey

What was done at gitmo wasn’t torture. Ask John McCain what torture is.

Fair enough:

1. McCain believes waterboarding is torture. In October of last year, he rebuked Rudy Giuliani for waffling on whether or not waterboarding is torture:

“All I can say is that it was used in the Spanish Inquisition, it was used in Pol Pot’s genocide in Cambodia, and there are reports that it is being used against Buddhist monks today,” Mr. McCain, who spent more than five years in a North Vietnamese prison camp, said in a telephone interview.

Of presidential candidates like Mr. Giuliani, who say that they are unsure whether waterboarding is torture, Mr. McCain said: “They should know what it is. It is not a complicated procedure. It is torture.”

498 HoosierHoops  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:35:40pm

re: #477 bolivar

I got a rock……


I Got a check from the Treasury for 1 trillion dollars..
It was made out to Buzzsaw..So i burnt it.

499 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:36:38pm

re: #488 avanti

I’m actually amazed at the number of Americans Democrats that think we should become are the same sort of slime the terrorists are. To me, once we stoop to their level, we’ve lost they have no idea what the principles our fore fathers stood for.

500 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:37:05pm

re: #488 avanti

I agree with both Mccain and Shep, but Shep said it best. “We are American’s, we don’t fucking torture ” I’m actually amazed at the number of Americans that think we should become the same sort of slime the terrorists are. To me, once we stoop to their level, we’ve lost the principles our fore fathers stood for.

Your outrage seems selective. Where is the shock and horror for the rape rooms and wood chippers? The faux outrage over panties on the head really makes me sick.

501 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:37:16pm

re: #494 BigPapa

What does that mean?

Did we stoop to ‘their’ level?

If the US allows torture, we are ignoring the same rules of civilized behavior as our enemy does.

502 redc1c4  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:37:25pm

re: #488 avanti

kiss my ass you miserable POS. you do realize that “water boarding” and all the other “tortures” you and scum like you are so unhappy with are things that are done to US service people in SERE school, so they can have a slight idea of what to expect if they are captured by organizations and countries inimical to our continued survival. those would be the same one’s you are aiding and abetting with your whiny bullshit. FOAD.

503 pink freud  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:37:51pm

re: #488 avanti

What happened to all those shades of gray you trumpet?

Your relativism is mighty convoluted.

504 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:38:01pm
505 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:38:06pm

re: #497 avanti
Fine you picked water boarding. I don’t fucking care about these creeps at gitmo. No matter what we do it’s wong. Fuck you and fuck all the other self rightous assholes. Ya think one of our troops is gonna get treated better if captured by these vermin? If you do you are crazy!

506 bolivar  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:38:10pm

re: #498 HoosierHoops

I Got a check from the Treasury for 1 trillion dollars..
It was made out to Buzzsaw..So i burnt it.

Good move, only bad could come from ill gotten booty.

507 Dianna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:38:42pm

re: #503 pink freud

Did I get the second draft of the novel to you, or did I miss you?

508 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:39:01pm

re: #501 avanti
YOU ARE A GODDAMNED IDIOT! Our enemy does not observe the rules of war.

509 pink freud  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:40:37pm

re: #507 Dianna

Did I get the second draft of the novel to you, or did I miss you?

It’s in my inbox, Dianna. Thank you for including me. I’m caught in the whirlwind of trying to wrap up a semester here and the projects are fast and furious. I WILL get to it, I promise.

510 Dianna  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:41:11pm

re: #509 pink freud

Take your time - I’m exhausted.

511 razorbacker  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:41:40pm

I don’t know how this can get any more off topic, so here it is…

I’ve got these cordless earphones. The base, or sending unit is not plugged in. No power. It also is not connected to any radio, computer or anything else that makes noise of any kind.

But I put them on and flip the switch on the earphones themselves and I get a Spanish language radio station. Currently playing that latinized polka music.

I’ll see y’all later. I’m going to check into a nice, soothing Home For The Perpetually Nervous.

I need it. I deserve it.

512 Argus  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:41:43pm

The Left is much more concerned with fighting Americans than fighting our enemies. Who’d of thunk it?

513 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:41:46pm

re: #501 avanti

If the US allows torture, we are ignoring the same rules of civilized behavior as our enemy does.

So it’s an all or nothing situation? If we bend or break one rule to a very small degree in a very few instances, in order to protect the country from attack, then we are just as bad as genocidal mass-murdering terrorists?

Who is the judge of this civilized behavior? The UN?

514 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:41:48pm

re: #501 avanti

If the US allows torture, we are ignoring the same rules of civilized behavior as our enemy does.

Which sounds like an equivocation that we are just like them. Let’s just cut to the chase and say waterboarding is torture. Let’s say all the fretted over tactics are torture, plain and simple.

Since we torture, and they torture, we are just like them. Is that the depth of what you’re saying? The record shows that we are not just like them. However, if we redefine what torture is, then prove that we torture just like them, it proves that we are just like them. Is that the end of it?

Please then explain what the point is by making this contention.

515 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:41:53pm

re: #500 DaddyG

Your outrage seems selective. Where is the shock and horror for the rape rooms and wood chippers? The faux outrage over panties on the head really makes me sick.

One does not exclude the other. Just because I’m horrified by the Jews being tossed into the ovens would not justify me into committing war crimes.

516 HippieforLife  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:42:25pm

re: #488 avanti

Principles have nothing to do with defending ourselves. Being “holier than thou” will get you just a dead as being “mean”.

Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

517 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:44:54pm

re: #515 avanti

Yes, but:

Tossing Jews into ovens = war crimes.
Slapping or waterboarding a POW who might have information on enemy troop movements = war crimes.

Same?

518 kansas  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:45:37pm

What the fuck is torture anyway? Putting some panties on someone’s head. Making them uncomfortable? Crap. We are gonna get hit again.

519 debutaunt  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:45:55pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Seriously, my neighbor in the apartment above me was playing his stereo so loud that I had trouble sleeping last nigh, and this morning, I got some water in my nose while I was taking a shower, and then in the kitchen, I saw a wasp.

I want the UN to investigate.

Walter, wasp=bug.

520 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:46:35pm

re: #515 avanti

I’m curious… when is the UN going to insist on prosecuting the government officials of China, Russia, Libya, Syria, Iran, Mexico, Spain, France, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, Pakistan, & the rest of the 150 countries where the UN has identified instances of torture and abuse of prisoners?

Or are those the countries you look to for your shining example of “civilized behavior”?

521 kansas  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:46:35pm

re: #517 BigPapa

Yes, but:

Tossing Jews into ovens = war crimes.
Slapping or waterboarding a POW who might have information on enemy troop movements = war crimes.

Same?

In avanti world it’s the same.

522 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:47:26pm

Rassmusen poll re National Security under Obama:
58 percent of voters say the Obama administration’s recent release of DOJ memos “endangers the national security of the United States.” Fewer than half as many 28 percent, think it “helps America’s image abroad.” (This suggests that Obama’s apology tour hasn’t been especially well-received, either.)

* 70 percent also say America’s legal system either does a good job of weighing security against individual rights, or puts too much emphasis on individual rights at the expense of security. Only 21 percent say the legal system is “too concerned about protecting national security.”

* Only 28 percent want the Obama administration to investigate how the Bush administration treated terrorists. 58 percent want no such investigations.

* Obama’s decision to close Guantanamo Bay is now disapproved of by a 46-36 margin, with support for Obama’s action declining.

523 robdouth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:49:34pm

re: #515 avanti

One does not exclude the other. Just because I’m horrified by the Jews being tossed into the ovens would not justify me into committing war crimes.

That point would be valid except for the fact that you use (and abuse) a broad term like war crimes as if throwing Jews in an oven like Nazis is morally equivalent to walling or waterboarding someone. Being gassed, starved, burned alive, raped, etc. in WW2 death camps, is nothing like being walled, waterboarded, sleep-deprived at Gitmo. Jews in WW2 would have prayed to have Gitmo conditions and would have thought of it as a vacation from true “war crimes.” The fact that I just had to put quotes around that term has shown how damaging the left is to language. “Torture” is going the way of “rape”, “abuse”, “hate”, and a myriad of other terms tha the left has basically made useless and changed the definition.

524 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:50:11pm

re: #522 snowcrash
“Those are Freeper polls, don’t mean shit.” Moonbat off.

525 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:50:47pm

re: #514 BigPapa

Which sounds like an equivocation that we are just like them. Let’s just cut to the chase and say waterboarding is torture. Let’s say all the fretted over tactics are torture, plain and simple.

Since we torture, and they torture, we are just like them. Is that the depth of what you’re saying? The record shows that we are not just like them. However, if we redefine what torture is, then prove that we torture just like them, it proves that we are just like them. Is that the end of it?

Please then explain what the point is by making this contention.

We are too far apart to discuss this issue. To me, and many other Americans (and not just lefties and Democrats) torture is something Americans just do not do, and it saddens me that others would defend something so against everything this country stands for. McCain WAS tortured and spoke eloquently against the issue.

“He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”
Ben Franklin

526 pink freud  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:51:01pm

re: #521 kansas

In avanti world it’s the same.

Based on past posts, it’s not. He has denounced “black/white” dichotomies as the hallmark of conservative thinking. Has that changed, avanti?

527 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:52:52pm

The UN’s interpretation of torture:

Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

– Convention Against Torture, Article 1.1

If US broke this law, then:
Many ME countries break this law.
While the UN investigate them? Maybe send a strongly worded protest?

528 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:53:28pm

re: #525 avanti
Are you concerned about the freedom of the gitmo crew? Fine we’ll move them to your neighborhood! It says a lot when all the countries and people whinning about the torture of these vermin suddenly don’t want to take these poor misguided youts to their bosom and comfort them!

529 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:54:37pm

re: #527 BigPapa
If that is the standard then every cop who ever ‘sweated’ a suspect is guilty of a war crime. What a bunch of morons.

530 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:55:49pm

re: #521 kansas

In avanti world it’s the same.

Nope. Torture has been described and outlawed for many years. The Geneva convention and the Army field manual are fine with me. If you want area’s of gray, water boarding a few times in extreme situations might be a better argument for some then using it several 100 times on one detainee.

531 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:55:58pm

re: #525 avanti

We are too far apart to discuss this issue. To me, and many other Americans (and not just lefties and Democrats) torture is something Americans just do not do, and it saddens me that others would defend something so against everything this country stands for. McCain WAS tortured and spoke eloquently against the issue.

“He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”
Ben Franklin

Gotta run to a meeting but it has to be said that McCain, God bless him, has permanent physical damage from same. These Al-Quada fucks do not. As a matter of fact, intentionally not. We had doctor’s in attendance fercryinout loud.

532 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:56:58pm
533 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:57:12pm

Lunch break over, booo.

534 snowcrash  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:57:21pm

re: #524 pingjockey

Ping I am very disturbed by Obama playing politics with national security. I am in no mood to see that “paid minder Avanti” vomit the Obama Admins talking points.

535 lostlakehiker  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:57:47pm

Once the word “torture” is broadened to include any sort of rough or uncomfortable experience, we can indict every schoolyard in the nation, every job with long hours or requiring operating in difficult environments, and most sports training programs for “torture”.

KSM had knowledge of an upcoming 9-11 replay planned for LA. We broke down his unwillingness to share these details with the CIA, and as a result, we were able to break up the plot.

In situations like these, the ends actually do justify means one wouldn’t use on run-of-the-mill prisoners. The means themselves are not means that break a man, physically or mentally. KSM can still lift his arms, which is more than McCain can manage. KSM got plenty to eat. KSM maybe went short on sleep, but he didn’t lose any fingernails, nobody wired him up to a car battery, and he doesn’t have cigarette burns all over. In short, he wasn’t tortured.

For the U.S. to permit the imprisonment of our former officials by self-constituted “authorities” who purport to mete out justice to the guys who broke up that plot would be a travesty.

536 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:59:15pm

re: #525 avanti

We are too far apart to discuss this issue. To me, and many other Americans (and not just lefties and Democrats) torture is something Americans just do not do, and it saddens me that others would defend something so against everything this country stands for.

I am trying to find a point of clarification whether we are in agreement or not. You haven’t answered the question. Franklin’s quote wasn’t relevant either.

537 Mad Mullah  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:59:52pm

re: #501 avanti

If the US allows torture, we are ignoring the same rules of civilized behavior as our enemy does.

There is absolutely nothing uncivilized about capturing a confirmed terrorist who is plotting to kill American civilians and extracting information from them using water. Oh, the horror, lol.

Getting your head chopped off or having your body burnt and hung from bridges by barbaric savages would qualify as torture. The people held in Gitmo have been treated far too nicely.

You never hear any Liberals complain too much about torture when Americans are the victim, some Liberals even will say that they deserved it. When it comes to terrorists on the other hand, Liberals will line up to defend the rights of those scumbags.

538 robdouth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:00:16pm

re: #525 avanti

We are too far apart to discuss this issue. To me, and many other Americans (and not just lefties and Democrats) torture is something Americans just do not do, and it saddens me that others would defend something so against everything this country stands for. McCain WAS tortured and spoke eloquently against the issue.

“He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”
Ben Franklin

Actually I thought the quote was Jefferson, but that’s not important. Using that quote from the founding fathers is dubious because of the stance that they took that was very vicious against the Barbary Pirates who did not engage by the classic rules of Naval engagement. Every time a Pirate ship was taken over, it was summary executions and keel-hauling which is far more torturous than this current definition. To put on rose-colored glasses and pretend it’s not something America has done given the history of the Civil War, and the Alien and Sedition acts. America has done what it has had to in extreme situations to take care of the security of this country. Not every time is is right, nor am I going to defend every sin or nitpick over the details, but we’ve done much worse than Gitmo for the sake of preserving this nation.

Also it is extremely disingenuous to throw around the prop of John McCain. The man was tortured for real, of course he’s going to be against it. He is physically scarred and broken from what was done to him. No one from Gitmo comes anywhere close to what happened to John McCain. He is not the final moral authority on torture because his captors tortured him for no good reason, and sadistically. They didn’t choose him as one of 3 high ranking terrorists that after broken prevented a 9/11 type attack on L.A. There is such a world of difference that it’s basic common sense. I don’t see how we can even begin to argue this point.

539 Kenneth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:01:58pm

re: #525 avanti

Would you prefer it then if Bush had not approved these enhanced interrogation techniques?

How many people would had to have died in the planned terrorist attack on LA that these practices uncovered, to make you change your mind about it? 10? 100? 1000?

Would you be comfortable with explaining to the people mourning the deaths of their loved ones, how you could have prevented it, but didn’t want to lower yourself to their level?

“It’s better your children died in the terror attack than we splash some water on Khalid Sheik Mohamed’s face.”

540 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:02:01pm
541 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:04:19pm

re: #515 avanti

One does not exclude the other. Just because I’m horrified by the Jews being tossed into the ovens would not justify me into committing war crimes.


You are seriously dumbing down the definition of war crimes. I can only hope you are playing this dumb role in an effort to get responses on line.

542 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:04:41pm

“Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say “I think,” “I am,” but quotes some saint or sage”

Ralph Waldo Emerson

543 Athos  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:06:41pm

re: #413 alegrias

* * * *
Oddly enough, Obama’s spokesman Robert Gibbs isn’t considered a total laughingstock by the MSM.

Is there an emphasis on ‘total’? If not, should be.

544 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:07:50pm

re: #538 robdouth

I don’t see how we can even begin to argue this point.

No, but we can quote newscasters and misquote founding fathers.

Very well said sir. One Honco Salute for you.

545 JohninLondon  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:08:14pm

Gerald Warner of the London Telegraph has another piece on “President Pantywaist”

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk…]

546 avanti  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:09:57pm

re:

547 KenJen  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:12:42pm

re: #501 avanti

If the US allows torture, we are ignoring the same rules of civilized behavior as our enemy does.

One of the few things I want my government to do for me is keep my family, myself and all U.S citizens safe. If they have to use “torture” to do it then so be it.

548 Killian Bundy  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:15:28pm

re: #501 avanti

If the US allows torture, we are ignoring the same rules of civilized behavior as our enemy does.

/name one U.S. personnel, not rescued by U.S. forces, that has survived al Qaeda or Taliban captivity?

549 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:15:47pm

re: #545 JohninLondon

Wow. Talk about knocking it out of the park. Nothing like British clarity.

550 Athos  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:21:58pm

re: #525 avanti

We are too far apart to discuss this issue. To me, and many other Americans (and not just lefties and Democrats) torture is something Americans just do not do, and it saddens me that others would defend something so against everything this country stands for. McCain WAS tortured and spoke eloquently against the issue.

“He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”
Ben Franklin

First, every pinhead at this stage of the ‘debate’ just has to roll out that Ben Franklin classic as if it is the last fucking word on the issue. So just what fucking freedom did you sacrifice if the previous Administration decided that the temporary discomfort of waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and temperature changes warranted the savings of potentially tens of thousands of lives from the exposure of terrorist operations that were underway?

Are you willing, knowing the captive you hold, will a) not suffer permanent damage (unlike those tossed into ovens that you equivocate this to) and b) will provide the information that is needed to expose and defeat active terrorist operations targeting US civilians in US cities, that c) you will accord them rights that they and their actions disqualify them for so you can check off a fucking box that you were so proper with your values that thousands should die for it?

Officials, in the room with Pelosi, when she was told about this, said she didn’t whinge about waterboarding making them feel like they were going to drown, she asked if more intrusive and aggressive tactics might be more warranted. She knew fully that if it wasn’t done, and an attack was successful, and she opposed getting the information, her wrinkled liberal ass would be toast as the deaths of those Americans would lie at her feet and her weaknesses to fight a fucking war as a fucking war and not a high school debate.

Think about your damned principles and integrity when you focus on this issue and ignore the illegal combatants that our enemies are, the dozens of nations who practice real fucking torture that results in permanent effects, and why the focus is on your country while you ignore those others. Come on, thrill us with your moral and intellectual bankruptcy around that these aren’t your country and that you want your country ‘better than that’ - to the point that you are willing to let potentially thousands of your fellow citizens die because of your bankruptcy.

551 Pupdawg  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:24:24pm

re: #12 jcm

Obama will turn over documents, in the name of international cooperation.
And be able to say, It’s not me prosecuting them.

*spit*

Eaxcatly!

WASHINGTON — The White House and the Democratic leadership in the Senate signaled on Thursday that they would block for now any effort to establish an independent commission to investigate the Bush administration’s approval of harsh interrogation techniques.


I suspect sooner rather than later Obama and his fellow Democrats will be ‘forced’ by the International community as well as their people (their left base) to appoint an independent commission to do their dirty deeds.
This President is not selling the US and consequently us lock, stock and barrel, he’s giving us away! Do you feel safer now? How’s hope and change working-out for you?
The UN should be prosecuted into oblivion.

552 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:30:04pm

re: #550 Athos

Damn. Somebody fired up Athos today!

There’s an intellectual dishonesty in the ‘the US just doesn’t torture’ semantic. Takes some digging to get to it, but it’s no doubt there.

553 capitalist piglet  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:30:42pm

re: #488 avanti

I agree with both Mccain and Shep, but Shep said it best. “We are American’s, we don’t fucking torture ” I’m actually amazed at the number of Americans that think we should become the same sort of slime the terrorists are. To me, once we stoop to their level, we’ve lost the principles our fore fathers stood for.

As if there’s not a fricking GRAND CANYON of difference between simulated drowning for a few seconds to prevent a future attack on innocents and televised decapitation with a dull knife by people who seek to perpetuate one.

Are you that stupid, avanti? Good grief. Ugh.

554 robdouth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:32:35pm

re: #544 BigPapa

No, but we can quote newscasters and misquote founding fathers.

Very well said sir. One Honco Salute for you.

Look, I understand where they are coming from. In an ideal world we wouldn’t have to do any of this. Torture would be a term that would strike fear of fascism into the heart of anyone, but we don’t live in an ideal world. We live in one where people can justify the brutal murder of week old infants with car bombs because they believe blood libels about Jews, and where someone thousands of miles away can deem someone else the great satan because we don’t believe in the same “merciful” god that they do.

These things muddy the waters of what is acceptable and what is necessary to ensure security. I’m sure when the founding fathers said such things, it was with regards to basic freedoms such as speaking out against democratically elected officials, and they could in no way envision such ruthless tactics. There’s was a world where certain civilities were assumed, and breaking them was a literally punishable by death. If we are going to quote founding fathers out of context, and pretend that this somehow gaurantees the rights of men that would have been summarily executed by those same founding fathers, we are way the F*** off the reservation.

555 HippieforLife  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:41:49pm

I have to admit that I find it a little disturbing that the party that favors abortion up until the just being born point should be so excited over making a few scum bag terrorists uncomfortable.

556 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:43:53pm
557 rumcrook  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:53:39pm

I used to read books by russian dissadents in the 80’s that described show trails and politicaly predetermined outcomes that destroyed people and thier lives……


never thought I would see the dawn of the days it would happen here.

558 Aviator  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:58:52pm

re: #278 Ward Cleaver

I can’t find any record on the Web about a funeral or a grave. I would guess that he was cremated.

In his case that just counted as preheating.

559 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 1:59:55pm

re: #554 robdouth

Look, I understand where they are coming from. In an ideal world we wouldn’t have to do any of this. Torture would be a term that would strike fear of fascism into the heart of anyone, but we don’t live in an ideal world.

True. I value human life and think murder the ultimate singular crime. Having said that, once battle drawn killing must commence.

There is nothing wrong with being an idealist. I consider myself one. However, unless tempered by pragmatism, idealism is folly. In avanti’s case (and many leftist/Get Bushies), I think there’s an intellectual dishonesty in the argument, not an absence of pragmatism.

560 rb4269  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 2:02:37pm

re: #7 NelsFree

Janet at Homeland Security has already started this list

561 zombie  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 2:02:56pm

re: #493 buzzsawmonkey

Jabbertalky
—with apologies to Lewis Carroll

‘Tis chilling, how the passion grows
To sovereignty enslave,
Prosecute for practice at Gitmo
And to recall Abu Ghraib

“Beware the Jabber Talk, my son
Emanating from Obama’s batch
National security undone
Some lawyers for to catch!”

Sore winners take their power in hand
For retribution they have sought

Heedless that safety to this land

The policies they hate have brought

And, filing charges ‘cause they could,

The Jabber Talk, enraged aflame,

Undid policies that brought good

And blackened honest names!

“Did you? Did you? Oh, how could you?”

Specious charges ran fore and back!

And to safely make policy

Agencies changed their tack.

“Have we blamed Bush with Jabber Talk?

Come to my arms, my beamish boys!

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”

They chortled in their joy.

‘Tis chilling, how the passion grows
To sovereignty enslave,
Prosecute for practice at Gitmo
And to recall Abu Ghraib


Beyond brilliant!

562 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 2:16:26pm
563 robdouth  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 2:28:54pm

re: #557 rumcrook

I used to read books by russian dissadents in the 80’s that described show trails and politicaly predetermined outcomes that destroyed people and thier lives……


never thought I would see the dawn of the days it would happen here.

You know it’s all BS, when you go to a Leftist website and read comments about how former Bush officials should be in Gitmo. It’s not torture they oppose, but just torture of those they don’t see as enemies. If it were Bush or Cheney being tortured, half these idiots would line up to buy tickets, and brag openly about it basically.

564 FrogMarch  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 3:09:22pm

re: #59 zombie

Obama has spent his whole career pandering to constituencies and making hollow promises — and then voting “present” when he actually gets into office.

Now he’s doing it again on the international stage, and it’s having dire consequences. You can’t shovel promises of national self-destruction into the pen of slavering moonbats, and then waffle about actually following through. He’s gotten himself into extremely deep water here, except this time it has major national security consequences.

If he doesn’t jail or execute CIA agents and Republican lawyers for trying to prevent the next 9/11, the national and international Left with explode in rage and fury. But if he does persecute American intelligence officers, he will utterly demoralize and discredit our national security structure, possibly forever.

Obama is aware of this, so he’s trying to please both side simultaneously, making ever-more-untenable promises every day.

Now that you are actually the President, Mr. Obama, no, you can’t just eat your waffle.

as usual - a very excellent post.

565 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 3:53:05pm

re: #550 Athos

First, every pinhead at this stage of the ‘debate’ just has to roll out that Ben Franklin classic as if it is the last fucking word on the issue. So just what fucking freedom did you sacrifice if the previous Administration decided that the temporary discomfort of waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and temperature changes warranted the savings of potentially tens of thousands of lives from the exposure of terrorist operations that were underway?

Are you willing, knowing the captive you hold, will a) not suffer permanent damage (unlike those tossed into ovens that you equivocate this to) and b) will provide the information that is needed to expose and defeat active terrorist operations targeting US civilians in US cities, that c) you will accord them rights that they and their actions disqualify them for so you can check off a fucking box that you were so proper with your values that thousands should die for it?

Officials, in the room with Pelosi, when she was told about this, said she didn’t whinge about waterboarding making them feel like they were going to drown, she asked if more intrusive and aggressive tactics might be more warranted. She knew fully that if it wasn’t done, and an attack was successful, and she opposed getting the information, her wrinkled liberal ass would be toast as the deaths of those Americans would lie at her feet and her weaknesses to fight a fucking war as a fucking war and not a high school debate.

Think about your damned principles and integrity when you focus on this issue and ignore the illegal combatants that our enemies are, the dozens of nations who practice real fucking torture that results in permanent effects, and why the focus is on your country while you ignore those others. Come on, thrill us with your moral and intellectual bankruptcy around that these aren’t your country and that you want your country ‘better than that’ - to the point that you are willing to let potentially thousands of your fellow citizens die because of your bankruptcy.

Bravo. Well said. Libtards are writing checks on the altar of their sanctimonious pieties that we are going to end up cahsing in our blood.
The intellectual dishonesty here is staggering.

566 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 3:54:46pm

re: #557 rumcrook

I used to read books by russian dissadents in the 80’s that described show trails and politicaly predetermined outcomes that destroyed people and thier lives……


never thought I would see the dawn of the days it would happen here.

Reminds me of Koestler’s Darkness at Noon.

567 LGoPs  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 3:56:57pm

re: #558 Aviator

In his case that just counted as preheating.

My biggest regret about Alinsky is that he was dead before they cremated him, if that’s the way he went.
God damn his spiteful memory.

568 grumpy old codger  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 4:36:29pm

In Iraq, I medically cleared “dissidents” (many with traces of explosives on ther hands, etc.) prior to their admission into the military confinement system. I’m sure some of them ended up at Abu Ghrib. I’m beginning to feel that I will be lumped into the same category as Mengele. That is, a willing tool of an evil regime who should be punished. And how long before the military will again be slandered (Murtha, are you listening?). Am I worried?Youbetcha! These leftist kooks appear to be willing to do anything. It appears that the destruction of america is their goal. Should I flee to, well, where?

569 w_h_b  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 5:09:38pm

I’m so confused. I’m reading through the memos. I see nothing shocking at all. Except I’m shocked that the CIA needed permission to grab KSM by his collar or to slam him against a wall. Where are the centrist/fair reporters in the media who are asking anyone who says they are ‘shocked’ or that this is ‘torture’..why aren’t they asking for an exact quote from the memos as to what is shocking or ‘torture’. It will make them look silly. This is very confusing to me. Everyone is just assuming that ‘torture’ happened and making the debate over whether or not it worked…rather then laughing at the idea that torture took place at all. I feel like I’m living in an alternate universe..or I’m missing something..can someone explain this to me?

570 Joel  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 7:12:44pm

Obama sucks and I want that miserable leftist to fail.

571 Ming  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 8:39:17pm

The United States must back away from torture as an official government policy. George Washington refused to torture captured British soldiers; many of these soldiers were happy to stay in America when that war was over. America has always been “the good guys”, until very recently. Like neo-Nazism and creationism, torture is something to run away from. Prosecutions for past torture is a somewhat diferent subject. What’s important now is to get the facts out in the open, and to affirm that America does not torture, not as empty words, but as the truth. This is the only way America can return to truly being a light onto other nations.

572 solomonpanting  Fri, Apr 24, 2009 8:48:27pm

re: #571 Ming

If a terrorist with knowledge of an impending attack that could kill or maim could be made to offer up information by hooking him up to a car battery, I have only two things to say:

” Red is positive and black is negative.”

573 CEQAttorney  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:04:17am

re: #46 alegrias

44 additional prison pictures to be released by the Pentagon (per Rosa Brooks of the LA Times?) by May 28

Fox News

I’m sure that all the MPs are happy that their President does NOT have their back.

574 LieSeeker  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 2:40:28pm

And after they come for the Bush lawyers, they’ll come for the entire Obama administration. They’re doing a dandy job of setting up for all kinds of prosecutable events.


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