Harry’s Place: Pro Koln is a Fascist Organization

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David T at Harry’s Place gets the point: Pro K�ln is a Fascist Organisation.

Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs has been reporting on an ‘anti-Islamisation’ conference organised by Pro K�ln, which is the successor to the neo-fascist “Deutsche Liga f�r Volk und Heimat“.

We expect fascists to use anti-Muslim bigotry to advance their hateful politics. The British National Party are following precisely the same agenda in the United Kingdom.

If you are no longer capable of distinguishing between specific jihadist and Islamist parties - Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood and Jamaat-e-Islami - and ordinary Muslim citizens of your country, then you have crossed over the line. If you attend a conference organised by fascists, then you have also crossed over the line. You have become an anti-Muslim bigot.

Well said.

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58 comments
1 Athos  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:30:21am

Can't make it any clearer......

If you are no longer capable of distinguishing between specific jihadist and Islamist parties - Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood and Jamaat-e-Islami - and ordinary Muslim citizens of your country, then you have crossed over the line. If you attend a conference organised by fascists, then you have also crossed over the line.
2 debutaunt  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:30:30am

Perception and Reality are two vastly different concepts.

3 Racer X  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:31:42am

Photoshop!

Er, wait.

4 Ziggy Standard  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:33:32am

I wonder how long it will take Spencer to show up there screaming "Liars!"?

5 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:35:52am

Deutsche Liga für Volk und Heimat or translated:

German League for People and Homeland

I would think the name alone would be enough of a tip off for some people. But just in case:

The DLVH was founded in 1991 as a party. Prominent was a founding member of the former NPD federal chairman Martin Mussgnug.

From the NPD:

The objective of the NPD is the creation of a negative as it considers influences from abroad strongly demarcated Germany. All areas of life, whether in business, politics or in culture, only German national to be oriented. "Multiethnic excesses, which are currently exposed to the German people" and "over-" should be avoided.

6 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:36:50am

It's nice to see a little support out there from the right side of the blogospehere. It seems to be a little rare these days.

7 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:38:57am
If you are no longer capable of distinguishing between specific jihadist and Islamist parties - Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood and Jamaat-e-Islami - and ordinary Muslim citizens of your country, then you have crossed over the line.

That describes an awful lot of people, unfortunately.

8 Athos  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:41:14am

re: #7 wrenchwench

That describes an awful lot of people, unfortunately.

Many do so out of ignorance. We just have to keep pointing out this fact and let them decide if they wish to continue to wallow in their ignorance.

9 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:41:25am

re: #5 Sharmuta

The DLVH was founded in 1991 as a party. Prominent was a founding member of the former NPD federal chairman Martin Mussgnug.

Who is Martin Mussgnug?

The father of Martin Mussgnug was Hans Mussgnug, 1944-1945 extrabudgetary Professor of Surgery at the University of Heidelberg, Nazi Party member from 1937 and leader of the squad Saturday.

"Squad Saturday" is Storm Division, btw.

10 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:45:25am

re: #9 Sharmuta

"Squad Saturday" is Storm Division, btw.

Storm Division.

There you have it. The founder of pro-koln's father was an SA agent. And I'm supposed to think these are decent folks for allies.

11 Ziggy Standard  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:45:51am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

It's nice to see a little support out there from the right side of the blogospehere. It seems to be a little rare these days.

Actually, Harry's Place is centre-left. But although they have some disagreements with certain things that have been said here over the years, today I see a lot of common ground. From [Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

"But we cannot deny that while winning friends, HP has also always got on the nerves of many people - the Stoppers*, the Gallowayites, the Livingstonians and the Islamists, hate to have their dealings finally exposed to scrutiny. Some Labour Party supporters frown at the independent stance taken by the site towards the party and some erstwhile friends of the site find the diversity of opinions here to be unpalatable and evidence of some sort of ‘sell out’."

*Stoppers='antiwar' protesters.

12 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:48:00am

re: #8 Athos

Many do so out of ignorance. We just have to keep pointing out this fact and let them decide if they wish to continue to wallow in their ignorance.

Ignorance and mis-education. Some by Robert Spencer. How many believe that a Muslim is required by his religion to wage violent jihad because Spencer told them so?

13 MandyManners  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:50:09am

Will William Woody show up here to attack Harry's Place and defend Pro Koln?

14 debutaunt  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:51:20am

re: #13 MandyManners

Will William Woody show up here to attack Harry's Place and defend Pro Koln?

Who?

15 Ziggy Standard  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:52:46am

Reading Spencer's site, it seems to me he is trying to promote the idea that there are only two types of 'engagement' with muslims that are viable - isolation, and all-out war.

16 Athos  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:53:12am

re: #13 MandyManners

Will William Woody show up here to attack Harry's Place and defend Pro Koln?

After his 'performance' on the other thread, he lacks credibility and standing to do so. But that has never stopped trolls before.

17 pink freud  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:54:38am

re: #13 MandyManners

Will William Woody show up here to attack Harry's Place and defend Pro Koln?

I suspect he is reconnoitering with his masters for new orders.

18 MandyManners  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:59:10am

re: #14 debutaunt

Who?

A creep who wants us to ignore Spencer's and Gellar's new friends.

19 Ziggy Standard  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:59:21am

re: #12 wrenchwench

Ignorance and mis-education. Some by Robert Spencer. How many believe that a Muslim is required by his religion to wage violent jihad because Spencer told them so?

I was sold on that for a while too, after sept 11th. It's actually basically true - Islamic scriptures do tell muslims to wage jihad pretty much at the drop of a hat. However, it was when I started reading not only Islamic but also Judeo-Christian scriptures more that I realised that religions tell people to do a lot of things - things that the majority of the faithful have no trouble finding reasons to ignore. The often contradictory nature of scripture is also a great help in that department.

20 marsl  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:59:27am

Pro Koln is a Fascist Organization. Only Spencer don't see it.

21 MandyManners  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:00:08pm

re: #16 Athos

After his 'performance' on the other thread, he lacks credibility and standing to do so. But that has never stopped trolls before.

I'm proud of myself for not stomping his in-step.

22 MandyManners  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:00:47pm

re: #17 pink freud

I suspect he is reconnoitering with his masters for new orders.

Now I have this image of Marty Felman as Igor in my mind.

23 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:01:37pm

re: #11 Jimmah

Actually, Harry's Place is centre-left.


Ah, thanks.
Boy, I'm making a lot of mistakes this morning. Maybe I should just go back to bed.

24 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:05:44pm

re: #10 Sharmuta

Storm Division.

There you have it. The founder of pro-koln's father was an SA agent. And I'm supposed to think these are decent folks for allies.

I should correct myself here. Martin Mussgnug was the founder of the German League for People and Homeland of which pro-koln is an offshoot.

25 Ziggy Standard  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:06:20pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Easy mistake to make Killgore, don't worry! We're not used to seeing much of the "anti-idiotarian, pro-intervention" left in evidence outside of Hitchens. Probably a shock to many here to learn that such a thing exists!

26 debutaunt  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:07:25pm

re: #18 MandyManners

A creep who wants us to ignore Spencer's and Gellar's new friends.

Yeah, I was diminishing him by asking who he is.

27 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:09:19pm

re: #26 debutaunt

Yeah, I was diminishing him by asking who he is.

According to William Woody, it is diminishing to him to even answer simple questions. He is beyond answering anything for us. But he's not beyond long windy paragraphs that go no where, and say little.

28 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:12:51pm

OT sort of. Ok folks. Spencer has been making such a big stink about the photo posted here at LGF, and how it turned out to probably, evidently photoshopped. and right now, live and in color, is a photoshopped picture of Madeline Albright, all dressed up like some Asian sultan.

I won't link to the site, but if interested, you find it. Of course, Spencer is not indicating that the picture is real, but it still seems a little off to be playing parody with pictures after his recent "heart attack" over the handshake photo.

29 Mad Mullah  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:13:26pm

I'm no fan of any of these euro fascists but I do believe in isolationism from most of the Islamic world. Maybe my views will change in 500-600 years when that religion has matured, but I'll be dead by then, so for now, I'd rather not have anything at all to do with that particular religion and their not so small minority of fanatical, violent followers.

30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:14:35pm

I notice that Michelle Malkin linked to Spencer's dishonest attack on me.

31 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:14:37pm

re: #28 Walter L. Newton

OT sort of. Ok folks. Spencer has been making such a big stink about the photo posted here at LGF, and how it turned out to probably, evidently photoshopped. and right now, live and in color, is a photoshopped picture of Madeline Albright, all dressed up like some Asian sultan.

I won't link to the site, but if interested, you find it. Of course, Spencer is not indicating that the picture is real, but it still seems a little off to be playing parody with pictures after his recent "heart attack" over the handshake photo.

Some might go so far as to say it's disingenuous on the part of mr spencer.

32 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:15:18pm

Charles, how about a new thread "Spencer uses photoshopped picture of Madeline Albright to make point."

I wonder if he'll get the idea.

33 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:15:57pm

re: #31 Sharmuta

Some might go so far as to say it's disingenuous on the part of mr spencer.

I was going to say that, but that word is too big for me to spell :)

34 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:16:09pm

re: #28 Walter L. Newton

How strange. My instincts are a little off this morning so I'll refrain from commenting.

35 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:16:39pm

re: #30 Charles

I notice that Michelle Malkin linked to Spencer's dishonest attack on me.

Disgusting.

36 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:17:17pm

re: #30 Charles

I notice that Michelle Malkin linked to Spencer's dishonest attack on me.

Did you think Michelle was some kind of safe house for critical thinking. Heaven's, she cut her teeth on the Murdock/Fox brand of journalism.

37 gegenkritik  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:21:16pm

By the way, PI-news has removed LGF from their linklist.

38 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:21:36pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

How strange. My instincts are a little off this morning so I'll refrain from commenting.

Well, mine aren't. Robert Spencer, like many of these ideologically driven people, have no qualms about how they get their points across.

Yes, they may all do it at different levels of obsessiveness, but the motivation, and morals are the same.

And after a while, the lines start to blur. They are always right and everyone else is wrong. Their is a jihadist behind every rock and tree, and the passages they so detest in the Koran, becomes their own, with simply a western spin on them.

These people are becoming that which they hate the most.

39 Render  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:26:03pm

As a mere technicality...

Members of HAMAS do operate alongside of HizbAllah from time to time. HizbAllah sent fighters into Iraq to operate alongside of al-Q and the Sadr Militia, who were also fighting each other in a crude fashion (blowing up each others civilians). Al-Q itself is of course something of an Islamic terrorist all-star team, affiliated with, allied with, or sharing members with dozens of other Islamic terrorist groups.

Every single one of the Islamic terrorist groups share one thing in common. They all hate Jews and Israel, even the Chinese Uighur Islamic terrorist groups hate Israel.

One should be forgiven a bit of blurriness in making distinctions between various Islamic terrorist groups, as those groups themselves are a bit blurry about their distinctions.

===

Looking at todays front page of LGF. Compared to Bill Roggio, WTF has Robert Spencer done lately?

-What lies behind us and lies before us are small matters compared to what lies right to our faces. -

Ralph Waldo Emerson

PROPAGANDA,
R

40 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:26:51pm

re: #39 Render

Looking at todays front page of LGF. Compared to Bill Roggio, WTF has Robert Spencer done lately?

Posted nazi apologia?

41 Render  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:30:32pm

re: #30 Charles

You expected otherwise?

OPTIMISTS
CLUB,
R

42 Catttt  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:32:35pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Ah, thanks.
Boy, I'm making a lot of mistakes this morning. Maybe I should just go back to bed.

I'm knocking things over a lot today. We all have those days. I am, however, going to be extra careful when I drive to the store in a bit. :D

43 Ziggy Standard  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:37:54pm

Dinner awaits - see you guys later.

44 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:39:53pm

hot air has also linked to R.S. McCain today.

45 hellosnackbar  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:43:10pm

What started out as a justifiable protest against the building of a monster
mosque in a German cathedral city became hijacked by monstrous facists.
As a former resident of the BRD I can tell you that these groups are utter filth ;whose only creed is hate.
Anyone who associates with them becomes immediately and indelibly tarnished ;such that their credibility can vanish overnight.
Robert Spencer is a fool!

46 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 12:44:19pm

re: #44 Sharmuta

hot air has also linked to R.S. McCain today.

There is a hell of a lot of stuff I have to use against both RS McCain and Michelle Malkin. Maybe it's time to start taking the gloves off.

47 Catttt  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:11:56pm

re: #44 Sharmuta

hot air has also linked to R.S. McCain today.

That's one of their newish "green room" links.

The Green Room gives HorAir readers additional reading material created by several different minds, personalities, and backgrounds.


Source of quote: [Link: hotair.com...]

So this R. S. McCain fellow is one of those different minds, it would seem. (Never heard of him before now.)

48 Catttt  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:12:42pm

BTW - the HorAir is (sic) - not a Freudian typo on MY part.....:D

49 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:14:50pm

re: #47 Catttt

This McCain guy first came to my attention because he sides with pamela, apparently.

50 Catttt  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:19:13pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

This McCain guy first came to my attention because he sides with pamela, apparently.

Sigh. Ms. Geller is a corrosive influence imho. Cherchez la femme.

51 Sharmuta  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:21:18pm

Charles- this might explain why some people are so pissed this weekend. Pretty prominent name:

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

52 po8crg  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:27:14pm

Harry's place is a (British) left-wing blog; one of the few that recognised political Islam as a problem. It spent a lot of time supporting Blair for the war in Iraq.

53 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:28:35pm

re: #47 Catttt

Source of quote: [Link: hotair.com...]

So this R. S. McCain fellow is one of those different minds, it would seem. (Never heard of him before now.)

R.S. McCain is associated with Pat Buchanan, and writes for the racist European journal Takimag. More info at Wikipedia: Robert Stacy McCain:

McCain has been criticized by the Southern Poverty Law Center, who called him a member of the white supremacist hate group, League of the South and "has often inserted excerpts of material written by hate groups" into the Times. "In addition, McCain is the only national reporter to cover four conferences put on by American Renaissance. Until 2004, McCain had never mentioned its controversial nature."

54 Flavia  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:53:34pm

Even if they miss (deliberately?) the moral implications of such a stance ("Islam/All Muslims are evil"), how can these people be so stupid as to miss the intellectual/logical implications - as in "when you generalize, you are generally wrong"? (okay, I made a funny - shoot me, I'm in a good mood today) The minute someone comes up with a counter to their blanket statement, it pulls the pins out of their entire argument - so why use it in the first place?

Actually, I just answered my own question: bigots are stupid.

Never mind!

55 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 2:06:59pm
If you are no longer capable of distinguishing between specific jihadist and Islamist parties - Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood and Jamaat-e-Islami - and ordinary Muslim citizens of your country, then you have crossed over the line.

One way to help yourself stay on the good side of that line is to remember: People who mind their own business, obey the law, are good to their children, and are in general good citizens--these people don't get featured on the news and the anti-jihadist blogs. You have to remember that they are out there.

56 Sacred Plants  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 2:33:24pm

"Pro Koln" is such a hollow name, just like "America First", or a Trojan Horse with the words "Trojan Horse" painted on it.

57 Zimriel  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 3:16:21pm

re: #46 Charles

There is a hell of a lot of stuff I have to use against both RS McCain and Michelle Malkin. Maybe it's time to start taking the gloves off.

Didn't know the gloves were ever on concerning RS McCain... not that he doesn't deserve it.

But I had noticed that Malkin hasn't been called to the carpet over her "Defense of Internment". (Yeah, the Left's historians made some noise, but it didn't get far out of the Left blogosphere with its own extensive list of anti-historians.) The Right in general has tiptoed around that book.

It's about time she was taken down a notch.

58 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 25, 2009 9:58:26pm

Currently posting LGF-hating comments at Harry's Place: "sheik yer'mami" who was banned from LGF after several disgusting racist remarks, including calling Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice a "pickaninny," and after comments calling for the mass internment and deportation of Muslims from Western countries.

This guy is one of the most vile bigoted haters in the blogosphere.


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