Breaking: Public Health Emergency Announced
Health • Views: 3,258
According to the White House, the Department of Health and Human Services is going to issue a “public health emergency” about the outbreak of swine flu…
506 comments
1 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:11:50am |
Yeah as Diana said they are saying: Stay home and die?
| 2 |
Shug Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:12:18am |
everyone remember : Good handwashing is your best friend
| 4 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:12:53am |
| 7 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:13:31am |
This scares me more than a terrorist attack does. I think we should shut down the Mexican border immediately.
| 8 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:13:46am |
Crap.
I guess I won’t be sharing the cup at mass again anytime soon.
| 10 |
moonflower Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:14:18am |
Never let a good crisis go to waste. I wonder what rights we will be losing now.
| 11 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:14:43am |
10 New Zealand Students ‘Likely’ Have Swine Flu
Not for nothing, but if anything really serious ever got out there, we are really fucked.
| 12 |
Shug Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:15:16am |
re: #10 moonflower
Never let a good crisis go to waste. I wonder what rights we will be losing now.
I call ODS
If they said nothing you would accuse them of being clueless
| 13 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:15:22am |
re: #6 solomonpanting
Maybe, maybe not. We’re overdue for a pandemic and those little bugs evolve/mutate to be tougher than existing vaccines.
| 15 |
redshirt Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:15:50am |
I just ate some pork sausage.
Just doing my bit to fight those nasty swine!
| 16 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:16:13am |
re: #7 NJDhockeyfan
This scares me more than a terrorist attack does. I think we should shut down the Mexican border immediately.
The time to have done that was last week. If they shut the border now they’ll also have to ground all internal aeroplane flights, shutter the trains, and set up roadblocks on the interstates.
| 19 |
realwest Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:16:39am |
Well according to pingjockey (whom I trust) on the prior thread, Chris Wallace (whom I don’t trust) says that there are already 50 million doses of Tamiflu on their way to affected sites.
CDC has said in the past that Tamiflu DOES work against this “swine flu”.
| 20 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:17:05am |
re: #15 redshirt
I just ate some pork sausage.
Just doing my bit to fight those nasty swine!
I ate lamb, shrimp, and lobster. Will that help?
| 21 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:17:36am |
| 22 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:17:47am |
First, we had a flight attendant quarantined, here in the UK, now this:
Scots tourists in swine flu alert
From that link:
‘Two people have been admitted to a Scottish hospital after returning from Mexico, where more than 80 people have died after contracting swine flu.
Scottish Health Secretary Nicola Sturgeon said the patients had both displayed mild flu-like symptoms but were not giving cause for concern.
Neither of the people involved had travelled in areas affected by swine flu outbreaks. ‘
Better safe than sorry!
| 23 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:18:30am |
re: #18 Macker
And I’ll bet the Muslims will go apeshit over this.
Not unless there develops a camel or goat flu.
| 25 |
Shug Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:19:05am |
I’m waiting for the first Anti Tamiflu post at The HuffPo
| 26 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:19:09am |
A gold mine of info, gathered mostly from health care professionals worldwide:
New Zealand update: 3news.co.nz
Also see: Biosurveillance
Global Disease Alert Map interactive, for tracking outbreaks
| 28 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:19:25am |
re: #11 Nevergiveup
10 New Zealand Students ‘Likely’ Have Swine Flu
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]
Not for nothing, but if anything really serious ever got out there, we are really fucked.
Indeed.
Lots of tourists go the Mexico - its not beyond the realm of possibilities that some who return might already be incubating that virus.
| 29 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:20:18am |
re: #28 yma o hyd
Indeed.
Lots of tourists go the Mexico - its not beyond the realm of possibilities that some who return might already be incubating that virus.
Well those kids in NYC were in mexico
| 30 |
ironbill Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:20:20am |
This sounds serious.
My only reservation about how this story is playing out is in the current administration’s mantra:
Never let a crisis go to waste
| 31 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:20:57am |
| 32 |
nyc redneck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:21:03am |
shouldn’t flu season be over.
damn, i hope it’s nothing.
imagine sitting around waiting and wondering if a stiff neck and sore back and headache are from the swine flu or from all that serious hard work in the garden.
(which is what i am wondering now , btw.)
| 33 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:21:31am |
re: #18 Macker
And I’ll bet the Muslims will go apeshit over this.
Omigawd - I can see the muslim MFM headlines already!
Swine flu - created especially to attack muslims …
| 34 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:21:37am |
re: #31 Dianna
Too late.
Oh, and how would you propose doing that?
Surface to air missiles come to mind?
/
| 35 |
jaunte Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:21:43am |
re: #24 rick554
Janet has it all under control and maybe this “emergency” will quiet down all those pesky demands for more “torture” docs from Republicans. Maybe Nancy Pelosi wont have to tell us what she knew and when she knew it. Is this another “crisis” from MOVEON.ORG to help sell “Nationalized Health Care”? The world wants to know
You could hurt yourself, stretching like that.
| 36 |
nyc redneck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:21:50am |
re: #29 Nevergiveup
Well those kids in NYC were in mexico
didn’t most of them recover relatively easily?
| 37 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:22:11am |
re: #24 rick554
Janet has it all under control and maybe this “emergency” will quiet down all those pesky demands for more “torture” docs from Republicans. Maybe Nancy Pelosi wont have to tell us what she knew and when she knew it. Is this another “crisis” from MOVEON.ORG to help sell “Nationalized Health Care”? The world wants to know
Here we go again.
Guys: this is not a manufactured emergency whose “timing” we must “question”. This is the real deal. If you want to keep trivialising this, I’d prefer it if you kept it at the “Loose Change” forums; I don’t want to read it here.
| 38 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:22:13am |
re: #19 realwest
Well according to pingjockey (whom I trust) on the prior thread, Chris Wallace (whom I don’t trust) says that there are already 50 million doses of Tamiflu on their way to affected sites.
CDC has said in the past that Tamiflu DOES work against this “swine flu”.
True … and one may wish to consider Vit D.
| 39 |
redshirt Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:22:28am |
I wonder if Roche Laboratories, the makers of Tamiflu, will suffer a “windfall profits tax” as I am sure they will make out like bandits during this outbreak.
On a serious note, let us take this moment to thank the Pharma companies and their employees for the drugs that keep this world safe. I hope that anybody who ever criticized them as evil corporations doesn’t get the shot.
| 40 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:22:29am |
re: #12 Shug
I call ODS
If they said nothing you would accuse them of being clueless
Yes, but presently…they’re not going to jump in and start hard quarantine, nor are they announcing mandatory vaccinations.
| 41 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:22:37am |
re: #36 nyc redneck
didn’t most of them recover relatively easily?
Yes and to the best of my knowledge so has/is everyone else here in the USA.
| 43 |
Macker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:22:48am |
re: #33 yma o hyd
Omigawd - I can see the muslim MFM headlines already!
Swine flu - created especially by the JOOOOOOS to attack muslims …
There, fixed that for ya!
| 45 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:23:23am |
| 47 |
Outlaw_Wizard Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:23:41am |
As someone wiser than I said yesterday:
“QUIET SUN” BAFFLING ASTRONOMERS, new flu outbreaks, and worries about “civil unrest.” I feel like I’m in a John Ringo novel. That is, when I don’t feel like I’m living in Fallen Angels.
Posted at 7:37 am by Glenn Reynolds
I can but hope we’re wrong, because living through a John Ringo novel would just absolutely suck.
| 48 |
nyc redneck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:06am |
re: #33 yma o hyd
Omigawd - I can see the muslim MFM headlines already!
Swine flu - created especially to attack muslims …
we will have to be p.c. and change the name of the disease if any moslems contract it.
| 49 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:07am |
Does anyone know if this is a bacterial or viral flu?
| 50 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:13am |
re: #19 realwest
Well according to pingjockey (whom I trust) on the prior thread, Chris Wallace (whom I don’t trust) says that there are already 50 million doses of Tamiflu on their way to affected sites.
CDC has said in the past that Tamiflu DOES work against this “swine flu”.
Does it work in advance (prevention) or only after you’ve contracted it (treatment)?
| 51 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:13am |
re: #19 realwest
Well according to pingjockey (whom I trust) on the prior thread, Chris Wallace (whom I don’t trust) says that there are already 50 million doses of Tamiflu on their way to affected sites.
CDC has said in the past that Tamiflu DOES work against this “swine flu”.
Which means it needs to be distributed to health care professionals and emergency responders first.
| 52 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:17am |
re: #46 rick554
If you want to act like a nut fine. Just don’t do it here.
| 53 |
VegasRick Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:38am |
| 54 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:53am |
| 55 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:24:54am |
Now you see why we need socialized medicine. With socialized medicine, we wouldn’t need to pay for the vaccines all the private companies will be working really hard to come up with to give to us for free. Out of the kindness of their hearts.////////////
| 56 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:25:01am |
re: #37 Zimriel
Here we go again.
Guys: this is not a manufactured emergency whose “timing” we must “question”. This is the real deal. If you want to keep trivialising this, I’d prefer it if you kept it at the “Loose Change” forums; I don’t want to read it here.
Exactly. This is serious as hell, and what is being released for public consumption vastly differs from what the health care community is saying amongst themselves (and some of what I’ve read has a discernible undercurrent of near-hysteria).
See the links at my 26.
| 57 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:25:05am |
re: #47 Outlaw_Wizard
As someone wiser than I said yesterday:
I can but hope we’re wrong, because living through a John Ringo novel would just absolutely suck.
Yes. It would.
As Killian said earlier:
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
/
| 59 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:25:59am |
re: #24 rick554
Janet has it all under control and maybe this “emergency” will quiet down all those pesky demands for more “torture” docs from Republicans. Maybe Nancy Pelosi wont have to tell us what she knew and when she knew it. Is this another “crisis” from MOVEON.ORG to help sell “Nationalized Health Care”? The world wants to know
ESAD, you turd.
We’re all in this together.
| 60 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:26:13am |
re: #42 pingjockey
Upding for that moment of sanity.
Thanks. I am capable of moments of lucidity; just ask my parole officer and court-appointed shrink.
/
| 61 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:26:17am |
I haven’t gone to the CDC website, but that would be where the solid info would be.
| 64 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:27:00am |
I’d like give thanks in advance on behalf of Carey and McCarthey for the absence of a vaccine for this flu.
| 65 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:27:21am |
re: #46 rick554
Real deal huh? lolol yeah right uh huh ok with Barack HUSSEIN Obama , ANYTHING is possible . time to MOVEON nothing to see here
You’re about one comment away from losing your LGF account.
| 66 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:27:25am |
re: #40 Dianna
Yes, but presently…they’re not going to jump in and start hard quarantine, nor are they announcing mandatory vaccinations.
How do you know?
| 67 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:27:39am |
re: #58 rick554
Of course it is free speech. However if you call me a lib again, I WILL crawl through the intertubes and tie yer ears in a knot!
| 68 |
jaunte Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:27:40am |
re: #58 rick554
Pingf lmfaoooo the internet is still free right? PC comments are still der riguer with you lib types. but the world is moving on Nothing to see here right?
Spreading bullshit doesn’t help.
| 69 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:27:40am |
re: #36 nyc redneck
didn’t most of them recover relatively easily?
I believe they’re getting better. I know the California cases were mild.
| 70 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:02am |
“If you are sick, stay home,” Napolitano said, explaining how the public can help slow the spread. “Take all of those reasonable measures that will help us mitigate and contain” the illness.
That should help business tomorrow? On the other hand, the malls might be empty?
| 71 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:09am |
re: #49 rightymouse
Does anyone know if this is a bacterial or viral flu?
I think all forms of flu were viral, by definition.
| 73 |
Macker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:12am |
re: #65 Charles
Did Rick turn into a Ronulan because of this outbreak?
| 74 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:13am |
| 75 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:16am |
re: #49 rightymouse
Does anyone know if this is a bacterial or viral flu?
Viral, from what I have read. Also, Purell and other hand sanitizers are made for control of bacteria, not a virus.
| 77 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:24am |
| 78 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:25am |
re: #37 Zimriel
Here we go again.
Guys: this is not a manufactured emergency whose “timing” we must “question”. This is the real deal. If you want to keep trivialising this, I’d prefer it if you kept it at the “Loose Change” forums; I don’t want to read it here.
Reminds me of the bird flu kerfuffle. What, 150 people died world wide or something? More people die everyday trying to cross the street. I’m missing the panic factor here. Of course, I may actually wash my hands more often for the next few weeks. Pays to be careful.
| 79 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:29am |
re: #59 Cato the Elder
ESAD, you turd.
We’re all in this together.
I’m guessing we’re about to have gamey rump sandwiches for our Sunday brunch today.
And a new batch of stalkers complaining about Charles’s THOUGHT CONTROL and TYRANNY and CENSORSHIP.
| 80 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:28:33am |
re: #63 Nevergiveup
I have no idea, but IIRC, the CDC is fairly apolitical.
| 82 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:01am |
re: #2 Shug
everyone remember : Good handwashing is your best friend
Here’s a flashback story from CNN…
Are hand gels replacing soap and water?
… President Bush offered Barack Obama hand sanitizer the first time they met at the White House in 2005, according to an account in Obama’s book “Audacity of Hope.”
Obama recalls shaking hands with Bush, who then “turned to an aide nearby, who squirted a big dollop of hand sanitizer in the president’s hand.” “Good stuff. Keeps you from getting colds,” Bush said, according to Obama’s account.
| 83 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:02am |
| 84 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:11am |
re: #37 Zimriel
Here we go again.
Guys: this is not a manufactured emergency whose “timing” we must “question”. This is the real deal. If you want to keep trivialising this, I’d prefer it if you kept it at the “Loose Change” forums; I don’t want to read it here.
Thank you.
| 85 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:12am |
re: #53 VegasRick
Kermit is greener than usual.
Lance Hogthrob is despondent — everyone’s running when they see him coming.
/uh … yeah, I know … what’s new about that?
| 86 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:16am |
re: #49 rightymouse
Does anyone know if this is a bacterial or viral flu?
Its viral - related to the H1N1 flu virus.
Here’s some good info …
| 87 |
Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:17am |
| 91 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:34am |
A brisk descent in population would be nice for the government right now.
| 92 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:29:37am |
re: #80 pingjockey
I have no idea, but IIRC, the CDC is fairly apolitical.
I know I was just kidding
| 95 |
Macker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:30:04am |
re: #91 Bullskin
A brisk descent in population would be nice for the government right now.
That’s what Cavil thought too.
| 96 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:30:06am |
re: #90 slterry40
Just a matter of time. Death and taxes.
| 97 |
Noam Sayin' Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:30:17am |
Nice. I watched that one disappear in front of my eyes, while I reviewed his stats.
| 99 |
jaunte Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:30:37am |
re: #91 Bullskin
A brisk descent in population would be nice for the government right now.
On the contrary, fewer people = less tax income.
| 100 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:30:58am |
| 101 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:31:07am |
It’s been a long time since we’ve had a open registration. Maybe today would be nice.
/
| 102 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:31:08am |
This is one time when a bet on #390 would have lost!
| 103 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:31:21am |
re: #76 Noam Sayin’
I’ll take rick554 in 88 comments.
It was #72 “cya”. But, you called it before I did, so well done.
Here’s your one strip of latinum. (Sorry, the odds were too stacked on this one for you to receive more.)
| 104 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:31:33am |
| 105 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:31:44am |
re: #58 rick554
I have no respect for the ideas of a conspiracy nut.
Illnesses are real, and the potential for a pandemic is ever-present.
Also, the MSM is perfectly capable of freaking out over a story without it being part of some conspiracy. They’re lemmings - are you too busy with your ODS to remember that?
| 106 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:31:47am |
re: #31 Dianna
No, it’s not too late. Mexicans are panicking and I’m sure sprinting for the border as we speak. Just because (for example) 2000 sick people have made it across, you want to let across 20,000 more?
It’s never too late in epidemiology. You shut down the influx of new cases so you can deal with the cases that are already on hand.
“Too late” is just accepting PC nonsense, sorry to say.
| 107 |
Salamantis Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:31:52am |
re: #94 Charles
Bye now!
Thanx for that. That was no troll; it was a chigger. Mindless as hell, but nevertheless maddenly irritating.
| 108 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:06am |
re: #100 Nevergiveup
Oops. You are correct. What in hell prompted that meltdown?
| 109 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:08am |
re: #79 Zimriel
I’m guessing we’re about to have gamey rump sandwiches for our Sunday brunch today.
And a new batch of stalkers complaining about Charles’s THOUGHT CONTROL and TYRANNY and CENSORSHIP.
You forgot to mention that LGF is an ECHOCHAMBER!
;-)
| 110 |
nyc redneck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:20am |
i hate the flu.
it is really a problem for the elderly, the very young, and people w/ compromised
immune systems. i really hope it turns out to be a very benign virus.
| 111 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:24am |
With links to CDC, WHO, and global tracking map.
| 112 |
realwest Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:30am |
re: #50 Cato the Elder
I’m sorry Cato but I don’t know the answer to that.
BUT - I have heard reports that folks that did receive the “flu vaccine” shot last fall/winter seem to be doing ok in dealing with this flu (which is not the one the vaccine was designed to fight).
| 113 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:38am |
re: #108 pingjockey
Oops. You are correct. What in hell prompted that meltdown?
I am not sure, was it speaking english?
| 114 |
Salamantis Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:41am |
re: #107 Salamantis
Thanx for that. That was no troll; it was a chigger. Mindless as hell, but nevertheless maddenly irritating.
maddeningly…pimf
| 115 |
Noam Sayin' Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:43am |
re: #103 Zimriel
I thought I was taking unfair advantage. He was at 87 when I made my bet. His deleted comments put him back at 83.
| 116 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:49am |
re: #100 Nevergiveup
well it was really at 81
I guess it was #81 after all. I’d thought the “cya” post at #72 would have done it; it usually does. Charles must be feeling extra-merciful today.
Who’s calling the next meltdown?
| 118 |
Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:32:59am |
re: #99 jaunte
On the contrary, fewer people = less tax income.
True. We are already spending my great grandchildrens money. Less people now means that we are prolly spending my great grandchildrens grandchildrens money. We are well and truly screwed.
| 119 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:33:07am |
re: #75 pink freud
Viral, from what I have read. Also, Purell and other hand sanitizers are made for control of bacteria, not a virus.
Still, washing hands/faces can’t hurt. I did not get the flu this winter (no shot either) yet people were sick as dogs around me at work. Avoiding them helped too. :)
| 122 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:33:23am |
re: #112 realwest
I’m sorry Cato but I don’t know the answer to that.
BUT - I have heard reports that folks that did receive the “flu vaccine” shot last fall/winter seem to be doing ok in dealing with this flu (which is not the one the vaccine was designed to fight).
I got it and I feel great. Or maybe it’s all the booze I’ve been drinking?
| 124 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:33:54am |
re: #91 Bullskin
A brisk descent in population would be nice for the government right now.
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
| 125 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:34:10am |
It’s being handled the right way, concern not panic. Hopefully the numbers stay small. That is all.
-S-
| 126 |
Shug Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:34:14am |
re: #123 Hucbald
At least it isn’t lizard flu. That would be bad.
I got a fever
And the only cure is more Lizard Cowbell……..
| 127 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:34:27am |
re: #88 Killgore Trout
Our first pig flu meltdown.
That’s what happens when you’re born under a porcine.
| 128 |
realwest Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:34:31am |
re: #51 Dianna
But I don’t know if it works as a vaccine or as a cure.
| 129 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:34:43am |
re: #107 Salamantis
Thanx for that. That was no troll; it was a chigger. Mindless as hell, but nevertheless maddenly irritating.
They do get under the skin, don’t they?
| 130 |
redshirt Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:34:44am |
re: #95 Macker
That’s what Cavil thought too.
Please no BSG references. MY mind is still reeling from that abortion of a finale,
| 132 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:35:07am |
re: #124 Charles
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
Well his comment might be malicious here, but didn’t the UK government kinda make a similar statement a few weeks ago?
| 134 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:35:24am |
| 135 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:35:38am |
re: #110 nyc redneck
i hate the flu.
it is really a problem for the elderly, the very young, and people w/ compromised
immune systems. i really hope it turns out to be a very benign virus.
Unfortunately, this one seems to be worst for healthy young adults. Or so I’ve been reading.
| 136 |
nyc redneck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:35:41am |
re: #91 Bullskin
A brisk descent in population would be nice for the government right now.
ridiculous.
somebody’s got to be here to pay the bills.
| 137 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:35:43am |
| 138 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:35:59am |
re: #119 rightymouse
Still, washing hands/faces can’t hurt. I did not get the flu this winter (no shot either) yet people were sick as dogs around me at work. Avoiding them helped too. :)
Completely avoid touching your face if possible, and wash hands frequently under running water. Basics.
| 139 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:36:12am |
re: #135 Cato the Elder
Unfortunately, this one seems to be worst for healthy young adults. Or so I’ve been reading.
Well since I ain’t so young?
| 141 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:36:35am |
re: #130 redshirt
Please no BSG references. MY mind is still reeling from that abortion of a finale,
I’d quit watching in Season 3. We still have the miniseries and the first two seasons…
| 143 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:36:43am |
re: #106 funky chicken
Maybe. This isn’t going to be terribly predictable, and you know the fairly simple public health measures that would work, aren’t going to be instituted. And forget trying to close the borders; politically, that’s dead before arrival.
| 144 |
aboo-Hoo-Hoo Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:36:50am |
| 145 |
realwest Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:36:52am |
re: #61 pingjockey
ping - this is the highest recommended site for tracking this flu: healthmap.org
| 146 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:36:59am |
re: #136 nyc redneck
If a society loses to many people, said society breaks down, see what happened in Europe after the black Death.
| 147 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:37:06am |
The panic over the virus prompted Canada to issue a travel health notice, saying the public health agency was “tracking clusters of severe respiratory illness with deaths in Mexico.”South Korea said it will test airline passengers arriving from the United States. Japan will convene a Cabinet meeting Monday to develop measures to block entry of the virus into the country.
The United States has not issued any travel warnings or quarantines.
If people want to fly or ride a bus into the US, make them pay for an influenza test. If they can afford air or bus fare, they can afford the flu swab too.
Border crossing points are more difficult, but not impossible. But if you can stop 75% of infected folks from making it here, that’s a whole lot better than stopping 0%.
| 148 |
Gray Skies Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:37:19am |
re: #55 axegrinder
But the vaccines would probably rationed, with those who can still contribute to society, i.e., “serve”, on the priority list.
| 149 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:37:31am |
re: #112 realwest
I’m sorry Cato but I don’t know the answer to that.
BUT - I have heard reports that folks that did receive the “flu vaccine” shot last fall/winter seem to be doing ok in dealing with this flu (which is not the one the vaccine was designed to fight).
Well I get a shot every year. So far it hasn’t given me autism, and I didn’t even get a cold this winter. Here’s hoping.
Remember, people: science!
| 150 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:37:43am |
re: #137 Nevergiveup
Hope not?
No - don’t have the flu - just ‘got’ that it’s a virus not bacterial.
| 151 |
SlartyBartfast Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:37:44am |
re: #143 Dianna
Maybe. This isn’t going to be terribly predictable, and you know the fairly simple public health measures that would work, aren’t going to be instituted. And forget trying to close the borders; politically, that’s dead before arrival.
Yep. The next thing we’re going to hear is, “This is why we need Universal Health Care…”
| 152 |
Outlaw_Wizard Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:03am |
Charles,
I believe Bullskin at 91 was making a Malthusian reference.
But I could be mistaken.
| 153 |
Killian Bundy Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:05am |
| 154 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:10am |
re: #75 pink freud
Viral, from what I have read. Also, Purell and other hand sanitizers are made for control of bacteria, not a virus.
That’s why the best prevention is to wash your hands. (Really wash, not just some 1.5-second splash under the faucet.)
Hand wipes are second-best, and sanitizer is third.
| 155 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:11am |
re: #145 realwest
Thank you. I was just here commenting on what the boob tube was saying. Didn’t want to miss the troll!
| 156 |
skywarner Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:19am |
Folks, this outbreak has some serious potential to go pandemic. The Obama Administration needs to be reviewing contingency plans right now - not next week or next month, but this very instant - for closing the entire U.S./Mexican border.
| 157 |
Buck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:24am |
An Italian cruise ship with 1,500 people on board fended off a pirate attack far off the coast of Somalia when its Israeli private security forces exchanged fire with the bandits.
So, ya the Israelis are behind all of the piracy stuff…. First they CREATE the pirates, and then defend against it…
| 158 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:30am |
re: #124 Charles
I mean in case of a pandemic nobody would care for economy.
| 159 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:37am |
do not panic, but for some reason his whole situation reminds me of horror movie
| 160 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:38:52am |
re: #150 rightymouse
No - don’t have the flu - just ‘got’ that it’s a virus not bacterial.
I know what ya meant. Hey no reason this can’t be alittle fun now?
| 161 |
redshirt Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:39:23am |
re: #141 Zimriel
I’d quit watching in Season 3. We still have the miniseries and the first two seasons…
If only I could unremember those last few seasons…
They destroyed something brilliant.
| 162 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:39:46am |
re: #128 realwest
But I don’t know if it works as a vaccine or as a cure.
Google is our friend, here.
| 163 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:39:50am |
re: #153 Killian Bundy
3M 1860 N95 RESPIRATOR AND SURGICAL MASK/BIRD FLU “SPECIAL 3 DAY SALE”
/stock up
I wear a mask all day, so one piece of advice. Don’t eat garlic and then burp into it.
| 164 |
Shug Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:40:08am |
re: #156 skywarner
Folks, this outbreak has some serious potential to go pandemic. The Obama Administration needs to be reviewing contingency plans right now - not next week or next month, but this very instant - for closing the entire U.S./Mexican border.
So does that mean you eliminate all air traffic into and out of Mexico?
Commercial flights?
I guess this is also a good time to mention that anybody can walk into the USA any time they feel like. The border is sort of porous.
Kind of scary if you think about it.
If we really did need to “quarentine” the USA, we couldn’t even do it.
| 165 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:40:19am |
re: #161 redshirt
I agree, whacked out plots, lotsa silliness.
| 166 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:40:28am |
| 167 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:41:16am |
re: #152 Outlaw_Wizard
Charles,
I believe Bullskin at 91 was making a Malthusian reference.
But I could be mistaken.
Malthusiasts. They’re everywhere.
| 168 |
Irish Rose Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:41:20am |
| 169 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:41:27am |
re: #163 Nevergiveup
I wear a mask all day, so one piece of advice. Don’t eat garlic and then burp into it.
But isn’t one supposed not to be able to smell one’s own garlic breath?
Or do you have personal, practical experience here?
| 170 |
VegasRick Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:41:40am |
re: #165 pingjockey
I agree, whacked out plots, lotsa silliness.
You talking about some of the posts on this thread?
/
| 171 |
Buck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:41:42am |
re: #147 funky chicken
[Link: www.cnn.com…]
If people want to fly or ride a bus into the US, make them pay for an influenza test. If they can afford air or bus fare, they can afford the flu swab too.
Border crossing points are more difficult, but not impossible. But if you can stop 75% of infected folks from making it here, that’s a whole lot better than stopping 0%.
Frankly, I have been told that a temperature test is very effective… a fever is present almost always… It can be done using IR cameras.. and done at the same time as the metal detector…
| 172 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:41:43am |
| 173 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:41:48am |
re: #164 Shug
It is doable. Just very much political dynamite. Nat. Guard, navy/coast guard off the coast, we could do it. But if we have to, will we?
| 174 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:42:15am |
re: #151 SlartyBartfast
Yep. The next thing we’re going to hear is, “This is why we need Universal Health Care…”
Possibly.
Personally? I’d call my doctor and get a flu shot.
| 175 |
jaunte Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:42:20am |
re: #159 Gella
do not panic, but for some reason his whole situation reminds me of horror movie
Contagion is scary, but to keep emotions in proportion, no one seems to get panicked by the death-by-automobile numbers. 42,642 in 2006.
en.wikipedia.org
| 176 |
Skywarner Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:42:33am |
re: #164 Shug
Yes, it _should_ mean shutting down all land, air and sea travel between the US and Mexico. Other nations will likely start cutting off travel between themselves and the US.
| 177 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:42:34am |
re: #170 VegasRick
That one went away! Naah, what they did to BattleStar Galactica.
| 178 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:42:44am |
re: #138 pink freud
Completely avoid touching your face if possible, and wash hands frequently under running water. Basics.
I scrub my face too and use a saline solution to clean out the sinuses. This is mostly because I have really bad allergies. But it helps in avoiding colds/flus and such as well. Many co-workers had that dreadful bronchial flu this past winter. Didn’t catch it.
| 179 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:42:49am |
re: #169 yma o hyd
But isn’t one supposed not to be able to smell one’s own garlic breath?
Or do you have personal, practical experience here?
Take my word, eat garlic/or the pills, and if you burb, you better have a grip on something.
| 180 |
realwest Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:43:10am |
re: #135 Cato the Elder
Unfortunately, this one seems to be worst for healthy young adults. Or so I’ve been reading.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been reading too. Don’t understand it, but they say the same thing happened with the 1918 (?) flu pandemic.
| 181 |
SalsaNChips Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:43:12am |
I am flying to Ireland on Wednesday, hope this doesn’t cause any delays or otherwise.
Wearing a surgical mask in the airport and on the plane as much as possible.
Taking Amoxicillion with me (not an anti-viral, I know, just in case it comes in handy).
Visiting Edinburgh, meeting up with my sister there. Hope to have a really good time (horse back riding!).
| 182 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:43:41am |
re: #175 jaunte
Contagion is scary, but to keep emotions in proportion, no one seems to get panicked by the death-by-automobile numbers. 42,642 in 2006.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
personally, at this moment i have no reason to panic and yes i know about d-b-a numbers, just remember there are a lot of hypochondriac ppl out there
| 183 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:43:55am |
re: #151 SlartyBartfast
Yep. The next thing we’re going to hear is, “This is why we need Universal Health Care…”
If they do, let’s smack them down. Nationalising healthcare is absolutely the worst action the government could take; it would take away accountability from hospitals. If you want to avoid infectious disease from poor hygiene, the last place you want to be is in a NHS hospital in England.
But so far this administration’s spokespeople haven’t made that case, and hopefully won’t. Again, if they did, they’ll be smacked down.
| 184 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:45:10am |
re: #165 pingjockey
I agree, whacked out plots, lotsa silliness.
The writers heads got too big. More concerned about winning awards then making something entertaining. Needed more space battles and more ACTUAL MACHINES fighting. They blew it big time.
| 185 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:45:12am |
A British agent left top secret information about covert operations on a bus in South America when she lost her handbag while on assignment.
That’s why I always leave my purse at home. Also it clashes with my sneakers.
| 186 |
J.S. Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:45:51am |
re: #164 Shug
there are also all the economic ramifications of doing (or attempting to do) a “quarantine” (the virus is already present in Canada — 4 in Nova Scotia, 2 in British Columbia, etc. And there are thousands of Canadians now on vacation in Mexico…)
| 187 |
dmandman Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:45:57am |
Well it looks like the Japanese are setting up quarantine stations:
| 188 |
jaunte Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:46:14am |
re: #182 Gella
Sure, just reminding the silent readers here not to get panicky.
| 189 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:46:30am |
re: #179 Nevergiveup
Take my word, eat garlic/or the pills, and if you burb, you better have a grip on something.
lol!
Garlic is actually very good for you. Ginger too. And I’m not talking about the one from Gilligan’s Island.
| 190 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:46:39am |
re: #179 Nevergiveup
Take my word, eat garlic/or the pills, and if you burb, you better have a grip on something.
I do take your word!
(Note to self - refrain from eating garlic. Burping while wearing face mask must be allowed to take place unhindered …)
| 192 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:46:54am |
re: #185 Nevergiveup
A British agent left top secret information about covert operations on a bus in South America when she lost her handbag while on assignment.
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]
That’s why I always leave my purse at home. Also it clashes with my sneakers.
James Bond would never lose top secret information.
| 193 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:47:09am |
| 194 |
Shug Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:47:30am |
re: #192 NJDhockeyfan
James Bond would never lose top secret information.
and he would never take the bus
| 195 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:47:35am |
re: #192 NJDhockeyfan
He wouldn’t be carrying it on his person.
| 196 |
snowcrash Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:48:15am |
Said it last night (and got dinged down) but here goes again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you have plenty of Tylenol, clear liquids, soup, crackers etc in the house in case you get sick and can’t get out. CDC says fever can last 3-5 days with general body aches and pain for up to 10.
| 197 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:08am |
re: #164 Shug
So does that mean you eliminate all air traffic into and out of Mexico?
Commercial flights?I guess this is also a good time to mention that anybody can walk into the USA any time they feel like. The border is sort of porous.
Kind of scary if you think about it.If we really did need to “quarentine” the USA, we couldn’t even do it.
Either responsible people take responsible steps to sharply curtail border crossings, or the VDARE/Buchannan/Beck crowd gets a huge platform to exploit. I’d rather have a 50% reduction in new cases that came across the border than a 0% reduction.
I also think most American citizens would agree, since most opinion polls show very high support for less illegal immigration even without a swine flu pandemic.
| 198 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:08am |
re: #153 Killian Bundy
3M 1860 N95 RESPIRATOR AND SURGICAL MASK/BIRD FLU “SPECIAL 3 DAY SALE”
/stock up
Thanks. There’s a slightly better deal down the page (lower price and shipping fee). Twenty for 30 bucks total. They’ll be sold out today, I guarantee it.
| 199 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:09am |
re: #196 snowcrash
Somebody dinged you for common sense? Sheesh.
| 200 |
Shug Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:23am |
re: #196 snowcrash
Said it last night (and got dinged down) but here goes again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you have plenty of Tylenol, clear liquids, soup, crackers etc in the house in case you get sick and can’t get out. CDC says fever can last 3-5 days with general body aches and pain for up to 10.
People dinged soup?
| 202 |
J.S. Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:42am |
re: #180 realwest
CNN on Friday noted that the current swine virus is an amalgamation of different strands (from avian, pig, and human flu virus) — so, the likelihood is high that older people will have encountered some of this previously and thus have acquired some degree of immunity — less likely for younger people.
| 203 |
Killian Bundy Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:47am |
Henkel 00-09122 Indoor 5-Window Shrink Film Kit, 62-by-210-Inch
/why take chances?
| 204 |
Athos Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:50am |
| 205 |
Outlaw_Wizard Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:51am |
It looks to me like the news reporting on this is not especially timely.
I hope the CDC and WHO are getting timely reports, but I’m also mindful of the disaster chain in Ringo’s The Last Centurion, in which the deadliness of the pandemic was not understood until it hit the Western Nations, and in which the United States never established an effective quarantine.
| 206 |
livefreeor die Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:54am |
re: #147 funky chicken
[Link: www.cnn.com…]
If people want to fly or ride a bus into the US, make them pay for an influenza test. If they can afford air or bus fare, they can afford the flu swab too.
Border crossing points are more difficult, but not impossible. But if you can stop 75% of infected folks from making it here, that’s a whole lot better than stopping 0%.
Janet Napolitano said they weren’t going to screen people coming in on flights from Mexico. Why the hell not?
| 207 |
yma o hyd Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:49:57am |
re: #180 realwest
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been reading too. Don’t understand it, but they say the same thing happened with the 1918 (?) flu pandemic.
IIRC, the reason for that was, according to scientists, that older people, who ahd already survived some much milder flu epidemics, had aquired some sort of immunity.
Younger people, not having been exposed to so many flu outbreaks, didn’t.
That also seems to be the reason that those who had flu shots only show relatively mild symptoms - tehre is already a slight form of immunisation present.
| 208 |
realwest Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:50:04am |
Well y’all this has been interesting and educational but I gotta run now.
Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!
| 209 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:50:26am |
Jordanian King Abdullah II on Sunday urged President Barack Obama to take
a more forceful role in the peace process between Israelis and Palestinians, warning of a new Middle East war unless significant progress is made over the next 18 months.
The little pisher is getting awful talkative lately?
| 210 |
Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:50:29am |
re: #185 Nevergiveup
A British agent left top secret information about covert operations on a bus in South America when she lost her handbag while on assignment.
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]
That’s why I always leave my purse at home. Also it clashes with my sneakers.
WTF? A bus? Can’t the MI5 afford at least an Aston Martin rental while on assignment?
| 212 |
Athos Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:51:13am |
re: #210 Truck Monkey
WTF? A bus? Can’t the MI5 afford at least an Aston Martin rental while on assignment?
It is the Brown government that you are talking about……nothing whatsoever towards anything related to Defense.
| 213 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:51:21am |
re: #201 nyc redneck
i dinged you UP.
Since I can only upding Snowcrash once, I’m updinging everyone who replied to her approvingly.
| 215 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:51:40am |
My comment #91 was somewhat sarcastic and evil, I forgot to put the / modifier. What would love the government now, yours and mine is that people wouldn’t worry now for the economy so a pandemic would be nice. It’s not my fault! they would say.
| 216 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:52:02am |
re: #196 snowcrash
Said it last night (and got dinged down) but here goes again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you have plenty of Tylenol, clear liquids, soup, crackers etc in the house in case you get sick and can’t get out. CDC says fever can last 3-5 days with general body aches and pain for up to 10.
I updinged you.
This is common sense.
| 217 |
pingjockey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:52:36am |
re: #209 Nevergiveup
He ought to shut up while he’s ahead. The IDF can still kick the shit out of any military in the region.
| 218 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:52:48am |
| 219 |
Nevergiveup Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:53:19am |
re: #217 pingjockey
He ought to shut up while he’s ahead. The IDF can still kick the shit out of any military in the region.
And saved his father’s ass more than once.
| 221 |
nyc redneck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:53:30am |
re: #213 Dianna
Since I can only upding Snowcrash once, I’m updinging everyone who replied to her approvingly.
i dinged YOU up,
for dinging me up,
for dinging Snowcrash up.
| 222 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:53:36am |
re: #187 dmandman
Well it looks like the Japanese are setting up quarantine stations:
[Link: search.japantimes.co.jp…]
Gotta respect their no BS approach to a task.
| 223 |
LGoPs Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:53:58am |
re: #196 snowcrash
Said it last night (and got dinged down) but here goes again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you have plenty of Tylenol, clear liquids, soup, crackers etc in the house in case you get sick and can’t get out. CDC says fever can last 3-5 days with general body aches and pain for up to 10.
Why in the world would anyone ding you down for that? I’ll make up for some of it by dinging you up, btw.
:)
| 224 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:54:32am |
Does CIPRO have an expiration date? I still have two bottles from 2001.re: #212 Athos
It is the Brown government that you are talking about……nothing whatsoever towards anything related to Defense.
Whatever happened to microfische implanted under the skin? Sheesh. Everybody’s on a budget.
| 225 |
VegasRick Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:54:59am |
re: #196 snowcrash
Said it last night (and got dinged down) but here goes again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you have plenty of Tylenol, clear liquids, soup, crackers etc in the house in case you get sick and can’t get out. CDC says fever can last 3-5 days with general body aches and pain for up to 10.
Medical supplies, canned heat, emergency radio and fresh batteries as well. Better to be safe for your family.
| 226 |
livefreeor die Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:55:15am |
I had weaned my four month old son down to three times per day with formula and cereal the rest of the time but I’m thinking of increasing the nursing since I had the flu shot when I was pregnant.
| 227 |
captain joe Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:55:55am |
Letz see now, I better add face masks and rubber gloves to my deployment bag. And hand sanitizer, too. I think the governor (Perry) or Obummer will call us up this time before it’s all over. Where’s my border map book?
The oldest captain in the TX state guard
| 228 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:56:12am |
re: #206 livefreeor die
Janet Napolitano said they weren’t going to screen people coming in on flights from Mexico. Why the hell not?
Oh come on! That would be so offensive!
/
| 229 |
LGoPs Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:56:50am |
re: #225 VegasRick
Medical supplies, canned heat, emergency radio and fresh batteries as well. Better to be safe for your family.
And for heaven’s sake………stay away from pigs.
*oink*
/ :)
| 230 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:56:56am |
re: #225 VegasRick
Medical supplies, canned heat, emergency radio and fresh batteries as well. Better to be safe for your family.
What? The power goes out during an outbreak?
| 231 |
SlartyBartfast Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:57:31am |
re: #206 livefreeor die
Janet Napolitano said they weren’t going to screen people coming in on flights from Mexico. Why the hell not?
I’d love to find JaNoPo’s statement on that. The Gateway Pundit reported the same thing w/o a link to any statement by Napolitano.
You don’t happen to have a linky, do you? The CNN article linked above says, “The United States has not issued any travel warnings or quarantines,” but such warning would come from the State Department, not the DHS.
| 232 |
livefreeor die Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:57:51am |
re: #228 Bobibutu
Oh come on! That would be so offensive!
/
Oh right. I forgot. It’s more important not to offend people than to use common sense.
//
| 233 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:58:19am |
re: #228 Bobibutu
Oh come on! That would be so offensive!
/
Yeah.
Grrrrr. Grrrr.
No one is thinking, if they’re not going to do something as simple as screen (say) returning Americans!
| 234 |
VegasRick Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:58:21am |
re: #230 solomonpanting
What? The power goes out during an outbreak?
Being prepared for whatever is not a joke.
| 235 |
Buck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:58:31am |
re: #230 solomonpanting
What? The power goes out during an outbreak?
Workers whop keep the power up start staying home…. civilization starts to fragment…
Do I really have to list this? Haven’t you seen ANY zombie movies?
| 236 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:58:33am |
Well I just started swimming daily about a month ago for health reasons. Guess I’ll head off to the Y now before they shut it down.
See yaz!
| 237 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:58:45am |
If I say I wouldn’t take a vaccine for this from my government, downdingers would do as usual without waiting for an explanation too?.
| 238 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:58:48am |
re: #228 Bobibutu
Oh come on! That would be so offensive!
/
It’s clearly more important to foster panic in the populace then actually do something to contain the problem. Priorities people!//////
| 239 |
Steve Rogers Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:58:54am |
The White House will announce that not a single swine flu virus can get through the glass barrier of a teleprompter! And Obama has enough teleprompters for every man, woman and child in all 57 states! So we’re all pretty much good to go now!
| 240 |
BryanS Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:59:29am |
re: #202 J.S.
CNN on Friday noted that the current swine virus is an amalgamation of different strands (from avian, pig, and human flu virus) — so, the likelihood is high that older people will have encountered some of this previously and thus have acquired some degree of immunity — less likely for younger people.
The reason for previous the previous serious flu pandemic of 1918 being so bad was that it affected the healthy more than usual. The high death rate was a result of a too aggressive immune response that damaged lung tissue—basically the better your immune system, the more you suffered.
| 241 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:59:40am |
I wonder if there’ll be a lot less ,,,, ummmm,,, “stragglers” hanging around Home Depot parking lots soon!?!?
wha ,,,!?!?!? just sayin!
| 242 |
smokefire Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:59:42am |
Well I guess I won’t be doing CPR, on any people of Latin descent now.
What, Jose, you are having a heart attack.
Bad Break amigo.
| 243 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:59:52am |
re: #235 Buck
Workers whop keep the power up start staying home…. civilization starts to fragment…
Do I really have to list this? Haven’t you seen ANY zombie movies?
Nope
| 244 |
Dianna Sun, Apr 26, 2009 10:59:56am |
re: #237 Bullskin
If I say I wouldn’t take a vaccine for this from my government, downdingers would do as usual without waiting for an explanation too?.
If you explain first, you’ll be better off.
Now, why wouldn’t you take a vaccine from the government?
| 245 |
Coldpizza Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:00:13am |
Nothing like a good dose of fear for us “holding short”.
In my own “selfish” way I hope this helps the “markets” to drop 300-500 points this week as I’m holding “Oil Short”. I see the perfect storm brewing. Exxon/BP/Chevron/ reporting, and some other bad news should do it.. Next week they can rally when I go long.
| 246 |
livefreeor die Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:00:17am |
re: #231 SlartyBartfast
I’d love to find JaNoPo’s statement on that. The Gateway Pundit reported the same thing w/o a link to any statement by Napolitano.
You don’t happen to have a linky, do you? The CNN article linked above says, “The United States has not issued any travel warnings or quarantines,” but such warning would come from the State Department, not the DHS.
Here’sthe link.
| 247 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:00:21am |
re: #235 Buck
Workers whop keep the power up start staying home…. civilization starts to fragment…
Do I really have to list this? Haven’t you seen ANY zombie movies?
Or it could be China or Russia shutting down our power grid. I better start hording ice…////
| 248 |
smokefire Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:00:52am |
OK everyone, don’t breath in to stop flu spread, and don’t breath out to add more CO2 to the atmosphere.
| 249 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:01:06am |
huh ? Swine Flu?
I’m still waiting for the Killer Bees that were supposed to wipe us out years ago,,, not to mention the Bird Flu and Mad Cow Disease!
| 250 |
jorline Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:01:10am |
re: #19 realwest
Well according to pingjockey (whom I trust) on the prior thread, Chris Wallace (whom I don’t trust) says that there are already 50 million doses of Tamiflu on their way to affected sites.
CDC has said in the past that Tamiflu DOES work against this “swine flu”.
Hey RW. They said we have 50 million doses and another 7 million from the World Health Organization (WHO)…25% of the stockpile would go to affected states.
Not the WHO i use to know.
| 251 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:01:29am |
re: #10 moonflower
Never let a good crisis go to waste. I wonder what rights we will be losing now.
Plenty if DHS and TSA get involved.
Was scheduled to fly to Mexico City the week after next. Wonder if they will insist on me going/
| 252 |
Outlaw_Wizard Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:01:39am |
If the pandemic gets bad, yes, you lose power.
People have to run the power genration and distribution systems. If people are getting deathly sick right, left, and center, some of them are going to go to ground or hunker down, and some more of them are going to get sick and/or die.
I don’t think it’s going to get that bad, and I certainly pray it does not, but a few precautions can go a long way and are neither expensive nor overly burdensome.
| 253 |
Steve Rogers Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:01:50am |
re: #206 livefreeor die
Janet Napolitano said they weren’t going to screen people coming in on flights from Mexico. Why the hell not?
That would be “virally profiling”!
| 254 |
lostlakehiker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:01:52am |
We don’t know yet just how dangerous this virus is: we don’t know what fraction of exposed people will be infected, we don’t know what fraction of infected people will die, and we don’t know when or if we’ll come up with a good vaccine.
This argues for waiting until things clarify.
NOT!
If it’s serious, we will bitterly regret having not taken some seemingly drastic steps right now. If it’s not serious, we will bitch and moan about some lost days of work, some travel plans postponed or canceled, and some other bearable dislocations endured.
We cannot hit the panic button for every potential public health emergency, because there are so many such potential emergencies. But this one seems real enough that Mexico’s countermeasures are prudent, and maybe too little. We need to track this thing very closely, immediately put in place the most useful countermeasures that involve the least dislocation, and prepare for drastic countermeasures such as quarantine, scrubbing all public gatherings, and closing schools. It could even turn out to be necessary to close airports and highways, not just between Mexico and the U.S., but generally.
| 255 |
Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:01:54am |
re: #236 Cato the Elder
Well I just started swimming daily about a month ago for health reasons. Guess I’ll head off to the Y now before they shut it down.
See yaz!
I actually worked out last night for probably the first time in 20 years…. and was surprised by what I could actually do. I impressed the 12 year old son.
| 256 |
VegasRick Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:02:11am |
re: #249 sattv4u2
huh ? Swine Flu?
I’m still waiting for the Killer Bees that were supposed to wipe us out years ago,,, not to mention the Bird Flu and Mad Cow Disease!
Rosie got the boot before she could infect anyone.
| 257 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:02:16am |
re: #249 sattv4u2
huh ? Swine Flu?
I’m still waiting for the Killer Bees that were supposed to wipe us out years ago,,, not to mention the Bird Flu and Mad Cow Disease!
are you talking about little fuzzy yellow and black little creatures that some ppl use for medical purposes?
| 258 |
MacDuff Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:02:23am |
Hey folks, I’m on airplanes twice a day, 3-4 days a week. Anyone who thinks this is ODS fodder or a subject for frivolity is either exercising poor taste or just plain ignorant. It is a real reason for concern for all of us.
| 259 |
DistantThunder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:02:34am |
I just attended a church meeting last week on infectious disease control. Boxes of masks had been pre-ordered by the congregants. It is a church-wide, world-wide, program, of the LDS church to plan for emergencies, pandemics, and for families to shelter-in-place. People in developing countries are often hit harder because they do not have an infastructure in place to manage these outbreaks. Greater than half the membership of the church is outside the US.
Pandemic Preparedness Planning
The following fact sheets provide information on how individuals, families, and health care workers can help prepare for a possible flu pandemic:
| 261 |
smokefire Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:02:58am |
My wife is Jewish, so this Swine Flu thing won’t affect her, right?
//////////////////////
| 262 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:03:10am |
Whenever you go out in public, wash your hands as often as it makes sense. Always wash them when you first get home.
If you have kids, make them do that, too. (Where possible.)
Don’t share your phone. Don’t use someone else’s phone. If anybody else uses your phone or your computer at work, wipe off the parts that they might handle. (I keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol at my desk, and paper towels.)
| 263 |
SlartyBartfast Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:03:14am |
| 264 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:03:39am |
re: #261 smokefire
My wife is Jewish, so this Swine Flu thing won’t affect her, right?
//////////////////////
well D’oH its not kosher, hello
//////
| 265 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:03:58am |
| 266 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:04:17am |
| 267 |
livefreeor die Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:04:25am |
re: #263 SlartyBartfast
Thanks! I found that so unbelievable, I had to see the link for myself. Please pardon my skepticism.
A lot of unbelievable things going on these days…*sigh*
No problem. I had to reread it a couple of times to confirm that it was actually saying what I thought it said. Looks like they’re rationing common sense these days.
| 268 |
Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:04:27am |
re: #242 smokefire
Well I guess I won’t be doing CPR, on any people of Latin descent now.
What, Jose, you are having a heart attack.
Bad Break amigo.
You could always do the New York mouth to mouth.
Lean over and get in the stricken persons face. Shout at the top of your lungs, “GET UP BEFORE YOU DIE!”. Repeat as many times as necessary.
| 269 |
J.S. Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:04:30am |
re: #240 BryanS
That’s interesting. I wonder if the same is true for the current outbreak…(health officials here are saying that the symptoms are moderate but not severe…they expect a full recovery for those Canadians who’ve contracted it.)
| 270 |
UncleRancher Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:04:30am |
Eleven (11) cases and we’re in full blown PANIC mode. I say watch what the other hand is doing.
When was the last time there were only eleven cases of ANYTHING in the USA?
| 271 |
BryanS Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:04:38am |
re: #254 lostlakehiker
Agreed in general. There’s no need to freak everyone out, but prudent measures should be taken in the event this turns out to be a serious event. New strains of the virus come out all the time—most never turn out to be anything more than the cause of a bad flu. Once in a long while, it turns out worse. Nothing wrong with taking steps JIK.
| 272 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:04:54am |
re: #206 livefreeor die
Janet Napolitano said they weren’t going to screen people coming in on flights from Mexico. Why the hell not?
I was in Cancun in early March. When we arrived in Atlanta on the way home, the lines into immigration for non US citizens were unbelievable compared to the lines for US citizens. It’s possible that this is a logistics issue. Then again, I may be giving the Gaffe Queen too much leeway. What would they use for a test? Is it a simple test or is it complicated/expensive?
| 273 |
UncleRancher Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:06:03am |
I’m waiting to hear from Joe Biden before I make up my mind on this issue.
| 274 |
Claire Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:06:15am |
EVERYBODY:
If you even think you have a hint of Flu symptoms, get some NAC (N-Actyl-Cysteine) pronto- You can also add Astralagus and Olive Leaf extract. These are all immune system boosters.
This is anecdotal, but I’ve been taking NAC for 3 1/2 years and have had exactly one mild cold, (which is just bizarre for me as I usually get 2 or 3 bad ones a year, and the last few years have been the most stressful of my entire life.) I’ve given bottles to my parents to keep in the house and my Mom reports good results too.
| 275 |
Mad Mullah Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:06:35am |
If this forces the borders to be more tightly guarded and monitored, then that is at least one positive thing to come out of this. The incompetent woman who is the secretary of homeland security doesn’t even believe that entering the country illegally is a crime.
| 276 |
smokefire Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:07:11am |
I think this is a ploy by Al Gore to get us to stop breathing///////////////////////////////////////////
| 277 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:07:13am |
re: #255 Truck Monkey
I actually worked out last night for probably the first time in 20 years…. and was surprised by what I could actually do. I impressed the 12 year old son.
The soreness generally really kicks in the 3rd day afterwards. Especially in the large muscle groups.
| 278 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:07:19am |
re: #233 Dianna
Yeah.
Grrrrr. Grrrr.
No one is thinking, if they’re not going to do something as simple as screen (say) returning Americans!
The guys and gals at CDC and WHO are and working their behinds off.
Problem is (as usual) the politicos are playing cya and we seem to be the expendable factor in that equation.
| 279 |
Buck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:07:25am |
re: #249 sattv4u2
huh ? Swine Flu?
I’m still waiting for the Killer Bees that were supposed to wipe us out years ago,,, not to mention the Bird Flu and Mad Cow Disease!
OK… but you have to admit the threats are getting bigger…
Bees, Birds, Steaks, and now humans…
| 280 |
LGoPs Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:07:57am |
re: #258 MacDuff
Hey folks, I’m on airplanes twice a day, 3-4 days a week. Anyone who thinks this is ODS fodder or a subject for frivolity is either exercising poor taste or just plain ignorant. It is a real reason for concern for all of us.
Agreed. But in an era of global travel it seems that any disease is just one plane flight away from world-wide infection. With some illnesses a person is infectious even before they show symptoms, making screening very problematic. I am at a loss as to how you can stop that, short of banning all travel.
| 281 |
jorline Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:08:10am |
re: #272 rightymouse
I was in Cancun in early March. When we arrived in Atlanta on the way home, the lines into immigration for non US citizens were unbelievable compared to the lines for US citizens. It’s possible that this is a logistics issue. Then again, I may be giving the Gaffe Queen too much leeway. What would they use for a test? Is it a simple test or is it complicated/expensive?
At the Mexican border all they’re doing at this time is asking if the person is sick.
I feel better already.
/
| 282 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:08:30am |
re: #270 UncleRancher
Eleven (11) cases and we’re in full blown PANIC mode. I say watch what the other hand is doing.
When was the last time there were only eleven cases of ANYTHING in the USA?
Most of the public health system was dismantled by AIDS activists in that perfectly good public health measures were discarded. When an epidemic begins you only have a few days/weeks (incubation time) to rein it in before it becomes uncontrollable.
Might be hearing the line from a Monty Python movie pretty soon “bring out your dead.”
| 283 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:08:52am |
re: #237 Bullskin
If I say I wouldn’t take a vaccine for this from my government, downdingers would do as usual without waiting for an explanation too?.
If you have a good explanation but deliberately fail to state it, that’s known as baiting the audience, and you would therefore deserve every downding you got for it. IMHO.
| 284 |
BryanS Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:08:53am |
re: #269 J.S.
That’s interesting. I wonder if the same is true for the current outbreak…(health officials here are saying that the symptoms are moderate but not severe…they expect a full recovery for those Canadians who’ve contracted it.)
What I’ve read that worries officials is that the same pattern of deaths among the young and healthy, but not younger than 3yr and older than 60yr, are the ones that are dying—but only in Mexico. That pattern of deaths is what has the WHO worried. But it is confusing as to why the death rates appear only to be high in Mexico. I’m not clued in enough to know the all the facts of the situation, but I wonder if there are differences between the Mexico strain and the others found in the US/elsewhere.
| 285 |
SlartyBartfast Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:09:07am |
re: #272 rightymouse
My experience has been (on travel to Japan) is that someone meets you when you disembark and simply “eye-balls” you, looking for a runny nose, watery eyes, fever-flushed face, and asks you, “Have you had any flu-like symptoms.”
| 286 |
Macker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:09:53am |
re: #275 Mad Mullah
If this forces the borders to be more tightly guarded and monitored, then that is at least one positive thing to come out of this. The incompetent woman who is the secretary of homeland security doesn’t even believe that entering the country illegally is a crime.
Hence, FireNapolitano.com. Careful, Crappy Nappy still has something else there in that Photoshop!
| 287 |
smokefire Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:10:01am |
re: #282 Perplexed
…………….and no fatalities.
Another Distraction.
What is He doing in the grass, that we don’t know about.
What’s next Martial Law?
| 288 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:10:22am |
re: #281 jorline
At the Mexican border all they’re doing at this time is asking if the person is sick.
I feel better already.
/
Yeah..me too.
/
| 289 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:10:51am |
I appreciate all the common sense suggestions. I’m not too worried about catching the flu. I work at home and don’t come into contact with a lot of people, other than while shopping. I actually don’t get a lot of colds, which I think is due to having lupus. My immune system is already overreacting to everything. OTOH, I can’t get the flu vaccine. I’m not sure whether all of this leaves me more vulnerable or less vulnerable if I am actually exposed.
| 290 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:11:39am |
re: #285 SlartyBartfast
My experience has been (on travel to Japan) is that someone meets you when you disembark and simply “eye-balls” you, looking for a runny nose, watery eyes, fever-flushed face, and asks you, “Have you had any flu-like symptoms.”
I can have all of those symptoms simply being on a friggin’ airplane for 7 hours and eating the lousy food.
| 291 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:11:44am |
re: #272 rightymouse
I was in Cancun in early March. When we arrived in Atlanta on the way home, the lines into immigration for non US citizens were unbelievable compared to the lines for US citizens. It’s possible that this is a logistics issue. Then again, I may be giving the Gaffe Queen too much leeway. What would they use for a test? Is it a simple test or is it complicated/expensive?
it’s a nasal swab. takes 10-15 minutes to develop.
not that expensive. you wanna come into the USA? You pay $30 for a nasal swab and wait for it to develop.
but I guess I’m just insensitive.
| 292 |
UncleRancher Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:11:54am |
re: #282 Perplexed
Most of the public health system was dismantled by AIDS activists in that perfectly good public health measures were discarded. When an epidemic begins you only have a few days/weeks (incubation time) to rein it in before it becomes uncontrollable.
Might be hearing the line from a Monty Python movie pretty soon “bring out your dead.”
Just a few years ago there was a panic about some kind of bird flu. I was scheduled to go to a meeting in Toronto a week later. The meeting was canceled and everyone stayed home. Maybe that’s what halted the pandemic, but it turned out to be only a handful of cases. That’s why I say look around for the sub-plot.
| 293 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:12:33am |
re: #283 lurking faith
If you have a good explanation but deliberately fail to state it, that’s known as baiting the audience, and you would therefore deserve every downding you got for it. IMHO.
Or I’m a Spanish who spend much time learning a non mother language and hitting the dictionary as hell when prompted to give a quick and accurate answer. But thanks for the hint.
| 294 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:12:36am |
re: #282 Perplexed
Most of the public health system was dismantled by AIDS activists in that perfectly good public health measures were discarded. When an epidemic begins you only have a few days/weeks (incubation time) to rein it in before it becomes uncontrollable.
Might be hearing the line from a Monty Python movie pretty soon “bring out your dead.”
“But I’m not dead yet!” “I feel greeeeat!”
| 296 |
itellu3times Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:13:10am |
The whole country has donkey flu, how much worse can it really get?
| 297 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:13:13am |
re: #287 smokefire
…………….and no fatalities.
Another Distraction.
What is He doing in the grass, that we don’t know about.What’s next Martial Law?
Martial Law? Only if it gets really bad with >5% mortality rates. At that point things would get very interesting (in a bad way).
| 298 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:13:26am |
Ok- time capsule time- was there not swine flu in the 70s, with shots and all…I was born in 1970, so my recall is a bit fuzzy…did it not go badly with the shots?
| 299 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:13:36am |
Russia Suspends Mexican, Some U.S. Meat Imports on Swine Flu
April 26 (Bloomberg) — Russia suspended imports of all meat from Mexico and the U.S. states of Texas, California and Kansas shipped after April 21 on concern about the spread of swine flu, the country’s veterinary watchdog said.
The suspension also affects pork from Guatemala, Honduras, the Dominican Republic, Columbia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Nicaragua, Panama, Salvador, and the U.S. states of Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Kansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Florida, the watchdog added in a statement on its Web site today.
| 300 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:13:45am |
re: #237 Bullskin
If I say I wouldn’t take a vaccine for this from my government, downdingers would do as usual without waiting for an explanation too?.
Let’s pretend there’s a vaccine. Your explanation is……
| 301 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:14:17am |
| 302 |
brookly red Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:14:23am |
| 303 |
jorline Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:14:33am |
re: #288 rightymouse
Yeah..me too.
/
Closing the borders will become PBO’s new hot potato this week.
I’m curious about the 60-80 deaths…how many of those had TB or other respiratory ailment before they caught the flu?
| 304 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:15:33am |
re: #294 axegrinder
“But I’m not dead yet!” “I feel greeeeat!”
I curious as to why certain Lizards here think that this is funny. As I’m not thinking of panicking, I don’t think this is material for SNL-like humor.
| 305 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:15:35am |
so, now, just wondering, will anti vaccine crooks will still preach vaccines are bad for you?
| 306 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:15:43am |
I haven’t read widely on the current outbreak, but from what I’ve read, I get the impression that one of the things that has the medical community particularly nervous is that this strain of swine flu appears to be transmitted directly human-to-human, and that that’s new or at least unusual in swine flus.
| 307 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:15:49am |
re: #295 Caton
That was 9-10 hours ago, and due to we have a socialist government, I just can’t imagine how many can be, 20 perhaps?.
| 308 |
BryanS Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:15:57am |
re: #299 pink freud
Russia Suspends Mexican, Some U.S. Meat Imports on Swine Flu
April 26 (Bloomberg) — Russia suspended imports of all meat from Mexico and the U.S. states of Texas, California and Kansas shipped after April 21 on concern about the spread of swine flu, the country’s veterinary watchdog said.
The suspension also affects pork from Guatemala, Honduras, the Dominican Republic, Columbia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Nicaragua, Panama, Salvador, and the U.S. states of Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Kansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Florida, the watchdog added in a statement on its Web site today.
I thought that reaction from Russia was lame—basically just taking advantage of the situation for parochial economic interests. You can’t get the flu from eating pork.
| 309 |
Macker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:16:02am |
re: #297 Perplexed
Martial Law? Only if it gets really bad with >5% mortality rates. At that point things would get very interesting (in a bad way).
According to Wiki, the mortality rate of the 1918 Influenza Pandemic was between 2.5% and 5.0%. Dang.
| 310 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:16:09am |
| 311 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:16:12am |
| 312 |
SlartyBartfast Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:16:23am |
re: #298 DisturbedEma
Ok- time capsule time- was there not swine flu in the 70s, with shots and all…I was born in 1970, so my recall is a bit fuzzy…did it not go badly with the shots?
Yes. I remember it. It would be interesting to see what can be found on the internet regarding the 1970s swine flu pandemic. I haven’t noticed anyone mentioning it (until your comment).
Kinda like, no one mentions the recession of 1981-82 ‘cause it was handled by tax cuts.
| 313 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:16:25am |
re: #304 Walter L. Newton
I curious as to why certain Lizards here think that this is funny. As I’m not thinking of panicking, I don’t think this is material for SNL-like humor.
even in the bad of times you still need to have some sense of humor, that might keep ur spirits life
| 314 |
Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:16:44am |
re: #277 axegrinder
The soreness generally really kicks in the 3rd day afterwards. Especially in the large muscle groups.
It felt good and still feels good the day after. I should just start up again. Damn the torpedos!
| 316 |
RoughRider Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:17:18am |
re: #151 SlartyBartfast
Yep. The next thing we’re going to hear is, “This is why we need Universal Health Care…”
What they won’t say is when you call for your urgent appointment under the benevolent glory of socialized medicine, you’ll be given an appointment time 10-12 weeks from the day you call.
| 317 |
DistantThunder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:17:37am |
Another thing I learned from the seminar on infection disease control was that many adults have never been vaccinated for hepatits A or B - and it’s something important to consider.
| 318 |
Hucbald Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:17:49am |
re: #273 UncleRancher
I’m waiting to hear from Joe Biden before I make up my mind on this issue.
“As I understand it, this is a swine flu affecting primarily the Mexican police force.” - Slow Joe Biden, the Gaffe-o-Matic
That sound about right?
| 319 |
LGoPs Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:17:51am |
re: #304 Walter L. Newton
I curious as to why certain Lizards here think that this is funny. As I’m not thinking of panicking, I don’t think this is material for SNL-like humor.
I think it is gallows humor, which by its definiton is not entirely inappropriate……
en.wikipedia.org
| 321 |
aboo-Hoo-Hoo Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:17:58am |
re: #273 UncleRancher
I’m waiting to hear from Joe Biden before I make up my mind on this issue.
Me too! In fact, Biden should be put in charge.
| 322 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:18:17am |
re: #302 brookly red
way too late to think containment…
No, it’s not. That’s just crazy talk, and it’s what the Obama administration is going to try to shovel out as their excuse for doing nothing to stop a huge influx of new cases over the southern border.
So a few cases have made it around the world. That means we should just ignore the problem and let thousands upon thousands of sick, impoverished Mexicans come to California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas to sicken thousands upon thousands of American citizens?
| 323 |
Macker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:18:28am |
re: #318 Hucbald
Joe The Biden™ didn’t actually say that did he? Please say it ain’t so!
| 324 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:18:29am |
re: #300 solomonpanting
My explanation is that I wouldn’t trust a word from any government in the world right now. I there was a Bush or Reagan one I would, but there isn’t.
| 325 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:19:04am |
re: #291 funky chicken
it’s a nasal swab. takes 10-15 minutes to develop.
not that expensive. you wanna come into the USA? You pay $30 for a nasal swab and wait for it to develop.
but I guess I’m just insensitive.
Actually, that makes a lot of sense.
And no, it’s not insensitive at all.
| 326 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:19:08am |
re: #313 Gella
even in the bad of times you still need to have some sense of humor, that might keep ur spirits life
My ex-wife works as a contractor for the CDC. Did for almost the 13 years we were married. She worked with a study of TB and AIDS strains, coming into the country by illegal’s.
I know when the CDC is concerned, and I can tell you, they are concerned about this current situation.
It’s not funny, but go ahead, have fun.
| 327 |
MacDuff Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:19:27am |
re: #280 LGoPs
Agreed. But in an era of global travel it seems that any disease is just one plane flight away from world-wide infection. With some illnesses a person is infectious even before they show symptoms, making screening very problematic. I am at a loss as to how you can stop that, short of banning all travel.
Aside from vaccines, there really isn’t any way to stop it which makes cases like this all the more pernicious and vaccines all the more necessary.
| 328 |
DistantThunder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:19:35am |
re: #282 Perplexed
Most of the public health system was dismantled by AIDS activists in that perfectly good public health measures were discarded. When an epidemic begins you only have a few days/weeks (incubation time) to rein it in before it becomes uncontrollable.
Might be hearing the line from a Monty Python movie pretty soon “bring out your dead.”
We were in the Bay area at the time of the AIDS outbreak, and I remember the refusal to treat it like an epidemic.
| 329 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:11am |
re: #303 jorline
Closing the borders will become PBO’s new hot potato this week.
I’m curious about the 60-80 deaths…how many of those had TB or other respiratory ailment before they caught the flu?
I’m curious too.
I read that the guy Obama met right before he died actually died from a heart attack, not the swine flu. Anyone else see that?
| 330 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:13am |
One thing I’ve noticed is the hospitals around here in Houston are already PACKED. I mean standing room only-only the sickest get a room and get shoved out ASAP to make more room. If this gets bad it will be BAD. I have two elderly parents and I’m wondering if I should go buy a couple of oxygen tanks and be ready to take care of them at home.
| 331 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:21am |
re: #326 Walter L. Newton
My ex-wife works as a contractor for the CDC. Did for almost the 13 years we were married. She worked with a study of TB and AIDS strains, coming into the country by illegal’s.
I know when the CDC is concerned, and I can tell you, they are concerned about this current situation.
It’s not funny, but go ahead, have fun.
i do not have fun, i know about complication and what can happen, but still
| 332 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:24am |
re: #308 BryanS
I thought that reaction from Russia was lame—basically just taking advantage of the situation for parochial economic interests. You can’t get the flu from eating pork.
From CDC:
Can people catch swine flu from eating pork?
No. Swine influenza viruses are not transmitted by food. You can not get swine influenza from eating pork or pork products. Eating properly handled and cooked pork and pork products is safe. Cooking pork to an internal temperature of 160°F kills the swine flu virus as it does other bacteria and viruses. (?, me)
How does swine flu spread?
Influenza viruses can be directly transmitted from pigs to people and from people to pigs. Human infection with flu viruses from pigs are most likely to occur when people are in close proximity to infected pigs, such as in pig barns and livestock exhibits housing pigs at fairs. Human-to-human transmission of swine flu can also occur. This is thought to occur in the same way as seasonal flu occurs in people, which is mainly person-to-person transmission through coughing or sneezing of people infected with the influenza virus. People may become infected by touching something with flu viruses on it and then touching their mouth or nose.
| 333 |
zombie Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:24am |
People may wonder why it’s called the “swine” flu.
Well, the answer is as obvious as it is disgusting: influenza is originally a pig disease. It jumped the species barrier by too-close and too-frequent interaction between a person (or a small group of people) and pig excretions.
While this may seem at first to be bizarre, what it not widely known is that many of the most common infectious human diseases were in fact originally animal diseases, that breached the species barrier:
The common cold is a horse disease.
Influenza is a pig disease.
Other strains of influenza are bird diseases.
AIDS is a monkey disease.
Bubonic plague is a rodent disease.
In all cases, it was only when humans came in close and repeated contact with these animals did the disease spread to people.
No humans, for example, ever had the common cold until we first domesticated horses and literally caught a mutant strain from the horses’ mucus. No one ever got the plague until we started farming and storing our grain, which attracted rats to human settlements for the first time. Etc. etc.
I once read a scientific paper about the “patient zero” of an earlier outbreak of bird flu coming out of China. It documented the unbelievably unsanitary conditions and behaviors the patient zero lived with in order to have such frequent contact with the birds’ bodily fluids and excretions that he eventually caught a mutant strain of the endemic disease — and then spread it to his family.
| 334 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:47am |
re: #319 LGoPs
I think it is gallows humor, which by its definiton is not entirely inappropriate……
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
I don’t need a link or reference to gallows humor, I understand it quite well.
This is nothing to have fun over, see my re: #326 Walter L. Newton
| 335 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:56am |
| 336 |
solomonpanting Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:20:57am |
re: #324 Bullskin
My explanation is that I wouldn’t trust a word from any government in the world right now. I there was a Bush or Reagan one I would, but there isn’t.
What wouldn’t you trust? That there’s a vaccine that works or that the government says it will work or….
| 337 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:21:05am |
re: #305 Gella
so, now, just wondering, will anti vaccine crooks will still preach vaccines are bad for you?
All signs point to …yes…per Magic 8 Ball…:)
| 338 |
Cato Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:21:21am |
Charles,
I would like to point out an irony here. Quarantine, which is a necessary and prudent tactic in the defense against any communicable public health menace, is by necessity against individual rights in exactly the same way GITMO is. It requires indivduals who may have been exposed to a disease but who do not yet exhibit symptoms to be kept away from the public and isolated without due process. The White House announcement is therefor a predicate for imposing anti-individual rights measures against the US population.
I do not oppose quarantine, but it is ironic, no?
| 340 |
axegrinder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:21:38am |
re: #304 Walter L. Newton
I curious as to why certain Lizards here think that this is funny. As I’m not thinking of panicking, I don’t think this is material for SNL-like humor.
Humor is the best medicine? I was simply completing the Monty Python reference. No offense meant.
| 342 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:22:34am |
re: #304 Walter L. Newton
I curious as to why certain Lizards here think that this is funny. As I’m not thinking of panicking, I don’t think this is material for SNL-like humor.
Recent threats to all of humanity:
Global cooling
Nuclear winter
AIDS
swine flu
bird flu
Global warming
Global flooding
Global desertification
Global famines
Asteroid strike
Etc.
Science played the chicken little card once too often by crying wolf. So which one of these do we believe? Which one results in entire cities laid waste by disease? Do we take appropriate (i.e. hand washing) health measures to avoid this? Yes, and we get immunized when an imunization is developed.
| 343 |
jorline Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:23:16am |
re: #289 doppelganglander
I appreciate all the common sense suggestions. I’m not too worried about catching the flu. I work at home and don’t come into contact with a lot of people, other than while shopping. I actually don’t get a lot of colds, which I think is due to having lupus. My immune system is already overreacting to everything. OTOH, I can’t get the flu vaccine. I’m not sure whether all of this leaves me more vulnerable or less vulnerable if I am actually exposed.
I’m in the same boat dgl. I’m on Humira, a DMARD, for rheumatoid arthritis and my immune system is now lower than the norm. I’m still currently fighting off an upper respiratory infection from a cold last week…I don’t need one more worry. This swine flu strain H1N1 is upper respiratory causing pneumonia.
| 344 |
aggieann Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:23:20am |
re: #37 Zimriel
Here we go again.
Guys: this is not a manufactured emergency whose “timing” we must “question”. This is the real deal. If you want to keep trivialising this, I’d prefer it if you kept it at the “Loose Change” forums; I don’t want to read it here.
Amen!
| 345 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:23:36am |
re: #293 Bullskin
Or I’m a Spanish who spend much time learning a non mother language and hitting the dictionary as hell when prompted to give a quick and accurate answer. But thanks for the hint.
Speed isn’t everything. Sometimes it’s better to delay your post until you can write your whole answer.
Many of us have learned that the hard way. :)
| 346 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:23:49am |
re: #326 Walter L. Newton
My ex-wife works as a contractor for the CDC. Did for almost the 13 years we were married. She worked with a study of TB and AIDS strains, coming into the country by illegal’s.
I know when the CDC is concerned, and I can tell you, they are concerned about this current situation.
It’s not funny, but go ahead, have fun.
Walter, here’s the thing—the Obama administration isn’t going to announce travel restrictions of disease screenings of the huge numbers of Mexicans who are going to flee here over the next weeks. That means lots more cases of this crap surging into our communities.
We American citizens are powerless to stop that. Gallows humor may help some people to cope with the frustration.
| 347 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:23:58am |
re: #331 Gella
i do not have fun, i know about complication and what can happen, but still
But still what? You didn’t finish your explanation. Look, I’m telling you, I know how the CDC response (and doesn’t respond). There is a lot of things I saw, trade articles I read which my ex-wife brought home, stuff I found out from her, I have an idea when the CDC is worried and have something that they need to contain.
This is one of them.
I’m not trying to start something here, but I suggest that we should understand the facts, not the fun, right now.
My opinion, do with it what you will.
| 348 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:24:04am |
Question- What’s the difference between fear mongering and rapid response?
Answer- political affiliation
I am glad they are being reactive- too bad about the pro active opportunity loss…unless we can parlay this into an immunization awareness moment…and pray we can contain this one…
| 349 |
aggieann Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:24:24am |
re: #171 Buck
Frankly, I have been told that a temperature test is very effective… a fever is present almost always… It can be done using IR cameras.. and done at the same time as the metal detector…
There’s an incubation period of several day when no symptoms are present.
| 351 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:24:44am |
re: #338 Cato
Charles,
I would like to point out an irony here. Quarantine, which is a necessary and prudent tactic in the defense against any communicable public health menace, is by necessity against individual rights in exactly the same way GITMO is. It requires indivduals who may have been exposed to a disease but who do not yet exhibit symptoms to be kept away from the public and isolated without due process. The White House announcement is therefor a predicate for imposing anti-individual rights measures against the US population.
I do not oppose quarantine, but it is ironic, no?
For the protection of lives…oh the irony!
| 352 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:24:48am |
| 353 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:25:19am |
re: #333 zombie
Excellent information. “Guns, Germs and Steel” (for all its faults) has a very good explanation of how Europeans and Middle Easterners developed immunity to many diseases because they lived closely with domesticated livestock. They brought those diseases with them to the New World, where the natives had no such immunity, and of course we all know how that turned out.
| 354 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:25:20am |
re: #346 funky chicken
Walter, here’s the thing—the Obama administration isn’t going to announce travel restrictions of disease screenings of the huge numbers of Mexicans who are going to flee here over the next weeks. That means lots more cases of this crap surging into our communities.
We American citizens are powerless to stop that. Gallows humor may help some people to cope with the frustration.
Ha! (yes, that was scarcastic)/
| 355 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:25:47am |
re: #329 rightymouse
I’m curious too.
I read that the guy Obama met right before he died actually died from a heart attack, not the swine flu. Anyone else see that?
Yes and it said a week later not the next day.
| 356 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:26:54am |
And think of the costs to care for those who have no insurance…like me…sigh I am hoping I do not get this or my kids!
| 357 |
DistantThunder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:27:06am |
The opposite side of the same coin of quarantine is Social Distancing.
What Are the Basics of Social Distancing
Social distancing may be a viable alternative for the general public to avoid the pandemic
influenza infection until a vaccine becomes available. Below, in order of potential effectiveness,
are various aspects of SD suggestions:
1. Limit exposure to other people within 6 feet.
2. Minimize exposure to enclosed spaces containing crowds, such as movie theatres,
grocery stores, gas stations, schools, malls, and so forth.
3. Use personal protective equipment, such as N95 masks (see Pandemic Planning—
Personal Protective Equipment fact sheet), if you must get within 6 feet of anyone outside
your immediate family (or other individuals where you have intimate knowledge of their
health conditions) or if you must go into an enclosed space containing crowds. It should
be noted that there is limited information on the use of surgical masks for the control of a
pandemic in settings where there is no identified source of infection.
4. Wash hands after touching any item that may have been touched by others or use
disposable gloves (see Pandemic Planning—Personal Hygiene fact sheet for more
details). Contaminated surfaces can transmit influenza for 24 hours.
| 358 |
Hucbald Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:27:22am |
re: #323 Macker
Joe The Biden™ didn’t actually say that did he? Please say it ain’t so!
No, I made that up, but the fact that you wondered IS telling, isn’t it? LOL!
| 359 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:27:23am |
re: #308 BryanS
I thought that reaction from Russia was lame—basically just taking advantage of the situation for parochial economic interests. You can’t get the flu from eating pork.
Actually, I believe you could get swine flu from eating undercooked pork, if that pig happened to be infected.
Cook yer danged meat.
| 360 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:27:31am |
re: #356 DisturbedEma
And think of the costs to care for those who have no insurance…like me…sigh I am hoping I do not get this or my kids!
But, you can have fun in the meantime.
/
| 361 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:27:40am |
re: #356 DisturbedEma
And think of the costs to care for those who have no insurance…like me…sigh I am hoping I do not get this or my kids!
Too lat ,, you already HAVE your kids ,, no ?
//
| 362 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:27:54am |
re: #347 Walter L. Newton
I understand where are u coming from, i can understand what can happen, but sense of humor never hurts. i am in a medical field and i seen ppl make jokes about their illnesses and i joke every time when i get tested for TB and its positive every time, just because when i was born TB vaccine was mandatory, its a running joke, especially when they want me to see specialist. But to each their own, Monty Python joke is not bad compare to what u can hear.
| 363 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:28:00am |
| 364 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:28:13am |
re: #343 jorline
I’m in the same boat dgl. I’m on Humira, a DMARD, for rheumatoid arthritis and my immune system is now lower than the norm. I’m still currently fighting off an upper respiratory infection from a cold last week…I don’t need one more worry. This swine flu strain H1N1 is upper respiratory causing pneumonia.
How is that working for you? I hope you’re doing well. You should probably call your doctor if you think there’s any chance you’ve been exposed, or could be.
| 366 |
Macker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:29:26am |
re: #358 Hucbald
Needless to say how frakked up our country is with БХО and Joe The Biden™ in charge.
| 367 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:29:56am |
re: #357 DistantThunder
From your links earlier, I found recommendations for using bleach (in dishwashers, laundry) and Lysol for surfaces (as opposed to alcohol). This is in line with other info I’ve seen today …alcohol is not effective against a surface viral agent.
| 368 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:30:05am |
re: #360 Walter L. Newton
But, you can have fun in the meantime.
/
Wonder if keeping kosher helps or hurts me?//
| 369 |
DistantThunder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:30:23am |
Here’s the link again. There are 8 separate downloadable PDF files for
| 370 |
SlartyBartfast Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:30:29am |
re: #338 Cato
My mother and grandmother both had TB during the 1940 and had to report to the state sanatorium. If they hadn’t gone voluntarily, the state (of MO) was empowered by law to take them there against their will.
With regard to the AIDS epidemic, I can still remember my parents discussing how times had changed and how there would be a public outcry if anyone even suggested that manner of response to AIDS infection.
BTW, Mom and Dad were married in the chapel at the sanatorium, 1947.
| 371 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:30:33am |
| 372 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:30:45am |
re: #356 DisturbedEma
And think of the costs to care for those who have no insurance…like me…sigh I am hoping I do not get this or my kids!
I feel for you. I’m on the brink of dropping my health insurance because I can’t really afford it anymore. I worry about getting sick because it would put the burden on somebody else. Very tough decision.
| 373 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:30:56am |
re: #361 sattv4u2
Too lat ,, you already HAVE your kids ,, no ?
//
Niiiice…make fun of my grammer…:)
| 374 |
BryanS Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:30:59am |
re: #359 lurking faith
Actually, I believe you could get swine flu from eating undercooked pork, if that pig happened to be infected.
Cook yer danged meat.
Yes, but the danger is quite low—dead pigs don’t sneeze. Now if you took the pork and soaked it in water that was then used in one of those cool humidifiers, then you’d have a teeny tiny chance of getting sick—the virus would be concentrated in the respiratory track tissues of the pig.
| 375 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:31:35am |
re: #362 Gella
I understand where are u coming from, i can understand what can happen, but sense of humor never hurts. i am in a medical field and i seen ppl make jokes about their illnesses and i joke every time when i get tested for TB and its positive every time, just because when i was born TB vaccine was mandatory, its a running joke, especially when they want me to see specialist. But to each their own, Monty Python joke is not bad compare to what u can hear.
Look, I fully realize the “humor” that goes on in the medical profession (or any profession for that matter). My concern that the humor among the population will try to diminish the possible seriousness of this.
Yes, you can find humor in your profession, since you have to put up with some amazingly stressful situations (my ex-wife is a saint, working in the medical profession as long as she has, and putting up with what she has had to put up with), but, we are not in the break room talking shop here.
I don’t think we should make light of this. Silly me.
| 376 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:31:39am |
| 377 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:31:45am |
| 378 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:31:57am |
re: #368 DisturbedEma
Wonder if keeping kosher helps or hurts me?//
It helps. That’s one of the reason Jews were thought to be the spreaders of bubonic plague. Keeping kosher kept the rodent population down and with fewer rodents you have fewer cases of the plague.
| 379 |
LGoPs Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:32:22am |
re: #362 Gella
I understand where are u coming from, i can understand what can happen, but sense of humor never hurts. i am in a medical field and i seen ppl make jokes about their illnesses and i joke every time when i get tested for TB and its positive every time, just because when i was born TB vaccine was mandatory, its a running joke, especially when they want me to see specialist. But to each their own, Monty Python joke is not bad compare to what u can hear.
When I was in the Army I found humor to be an excellent tool when dealing with stressful situations. And it was infectious (no pun intended). It would relieve my soldier’s stress as well.
| 380 |
DisturbedEma Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:32:25am |
| 381 |
debutaunt Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:33:22am |
re: #211 nyc redneck
oh no,
i just coughed.
During the plague in England, it was a sneeze that was the telltale sign.
| 382 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:33:23am |
| 383 |
unrealizedviewpoint Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:33:44am |
re: #346 funky chicken
Gallows humor may help some people to cope with the frustration.
Darn funky chicken’s maybe with bird flu and he’s running around making jokes about swine ailments.
/
| 384 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:33:45am |
re: #317 DistantThunder
Another thing I learned from the seminar on infection disease control was that many adults have never been vaccinated for hepatits A or B - and it’s something important to consider.
Not all insurance plans will pay for those vaccines for adults, probably because they’re not specifically recommended for all adults not previously vaccinated for them.
I cannot for the life of me figure out why not.
| 385 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:34:36am |
re: #371 pink freud
Nah. :-)
Although I do like their site.
Good stuff - been using them since the mid 90s.
| 386 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:34:38am |
re: #336 solomonpanting
What wouldn’t you trust? That there’s a vaccine that works or that the government says it will work or….
I would trust my wife who have two specialties in infectious diseases and a third in another, whose sister is a saleswoman for a big pharmacy firm and she already told me this morning that if the government said they have already found a vaccine and they would proceed to vaccinate all the population I must not.
BTW I’m not saying that the government an the big companies need a Malthusian adjustment in population, but if you find my comments feel you, or other uncomfortable I would gladly shut up.
| 387 |
LGoPs Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:34:44am |
re: #381 debutaunt
During the plague in England, it was a sneeze that was the telltale sign.
Wasn’t that where the response “God bless you” originated from? A blessing to ward off illness?
| 388 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:34:51am |
re: #382 rightymouse
I’ve seen several articles about him dying of flu-like symptoms, but there was one I read (danged If I can remember where) that said he actually died of a heart attack. Will see if I can find it.
Mexico, U.S.: Man With Swine Flu Met Obama
April 25, 2009
U.S. President Barack Obama was in contact with a man who died April 23 from the swine flu, Reforma reported April 25. Felipe Solis, a museum director, met Obama on April 16 in Mexico City, and began to suffer from flu-like symptoms the following day. On April 18 he was admitted to a hospital, where he was diagnosed with a case of pneumonia, which was aggravated by his diabetes. Solis’ glucose levels could not be stabilized, and he died on April 23 from cardiac arrest.
(from that stratfor link)
| 389 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:34:57am |
OT -
Well, I’m out of here. Got to get ready for tonight’s show. Yea, a live theatre, with live audience, enclosed small place, we serve drinks, glasses, and rest rooms, and all sort of places to pick up little critters.
Fun, sure.
| 390 |
zombie Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:35:11am |
re: #353 doppelganglander
Excellent information. “Guns, Germs and Steel” (for all its faults) has a very good explanation of how Europeans and Middle Easterners developed immunity to many diseases because they lived closely with domesticated livestock. They brought those diseases with them to the New World, where the natives had no such immunity, and of course we all know how that turned out.
There is also a controversial theory that syphilis is a New World llama disease which spread to mankind through, er, um, “venereal contact” with llamas. Though this has never been conclusively proven, as far as I know. Llamas do indeed have syphilis, though we just don’t know if they gave it to us.
As for Guns, Germs and Steel — its faults outweigh its good points. He presents various bits of well-known historical trivia and marshalls them in such a way to belittle Europe and Asia, basically saying “You just got lucky.” I could sit here debunking it all day long (and I have, elsewhere), but I’ll spare everyone the details!
| 391 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:36:18am |
re: #386 Bullskin
I would trust my wife who have two specialties in infectious diseases and a third in another, whose sister is a saleswoman for a big pharmacy firm and she already told me this morning that if the government said they have already found a vaccine and they would proceed to vaccinate all the population I must not.
BTW I’m not saying that the government an the big companies need a Malthusian adjustment in population, but if you find my comments feel you, or other uncomfortable I would gladly shut up.
13 weeks to a vaccine. From my earlier scienceblog link.
| 392 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:36:34am |
re: #367 pink freud
From your links earlier, I found recommendations for using bleach (in dishwashers, laundry) and Lysol for surfaces (as opposed to alcohol). This is in line with other info I’ve seen today …alcohol is not effective against a surface viral agent.
Totally forgot about this.
Bleach is excellent and so is vinegar (if you can stand the smell).
| 393 |
Gella Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:36:44am |
re: #375 Walter L. Newton
Look, I fully realize the “humor” that goes on in the medical profession (or any profession for that matter). My concern that the humor among the population will try to diminish the possible seriousness of this.
Yes, you can find humor in your profession, since you have to put up with some amazingly stressful situations (my ex-wife is a saint, working in the medical profession as long as she has, and putting up with what she has had to put up with), but, we are not in the break room talking shop here.
I don’t think we should make light of this. Silly me.
always look at the bright sight of life.
MP
| 394 |
snowcrash Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:37:03am |
After SARS scare 5 years ago there are plenty of supplies of Tamiflu, mechanical ventilators, gloves and masks. Hospitals are well prepared for the VERY ill. If you are generally healthy, and you develop flu like symptoms, high fever, muscle and body aches, head aches and cough, stay home and treat it yourself. Make sure you have the stuff you need to treat 3-5 days of high fevers and then weakness. I work in a large urban county hospital that serves the indigent and underserved (Lol) so I’m just telling you what I know.
| 395 |
swamprat Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:37:59am |
| 396 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:38:04am |
re: #390 zombie
Dinner with you would be a most memorable experience. :-)
| 397 |
itellu3times Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:38:46am |
re: #333 zombie
Once upon a time, I heard the explanation of the annual flu season was that in southern China, pigs and ducks and humans live very close together, viruses are exchanged (ducks being an especial reservoir of viruses, apparently), and voila, for some reason, every fall, a new virus spread. I suppose this might have some credibility in the twentieth century onwards, when world travel has become quick and easy, say, since 1960, when the first jet airliners went into operation.
And yet, serious killer pandemics were very rare before, and unknown since.
Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but I suspect the odds of such recurring are much much lower than commonly taken. It’s not like here in California, where we’re just waiting for the San Andreas to let go. It’s not like we’re just waiting for the next killer asteroid to wipe out 99% of life on Earth. We humans are pretty tough and evolved, and we even have a little science to help us along these days.
| 398 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:39:16am |
re: #388 pink freud
Mexico, U.S.: Man With Swine Flu Met Obama
April 25, 2009U.S. President Barack Obama was in contact with a man who died April 23 from the swine flu, Reforma reported April 25. Felipe Solis, a museum director, met Obama on April 16 in Mexico City, and began to suffer from flu-like symptoms the following day. On April 18 he was admitted to a hospital, where he was diagnosed with a case of pneumonia, which was aggravated by his diabetes. Solis’ glucose levels could not be stabilized, and he died on April 23 from cardiac arrest.
(from that stratfor link)
Didn’t see that. Sorry.
Anyway, his death is not proof positive that it was swine flu, right? did they test him for that?
| 399 |
Hucbald Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:39:56am |
Well, now that Walter’s out of the room, I suppose I can joke about this being some sort of a flying pig moment. *rimshot*
| 400 |
zombie Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:40:20am |
re: #396 pink freud
Dinner with you would be a most memorable experience. :-)
Especially for the person I’m eating!
| 401 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:40:26am |
re: #372 Killgore Trout
I feel for you. I’m on the brink of dropping my health insurance because I can’t really afford it anymore. I worry about getting sick because it would put the burden on somebody else. Very tough decision.
re: #390 zombie
There is also a controversial theory that syphilis is a New World llama disease which spread to mankind through, er, um, “venereal contact” with llamas. Though this has never been conclusively proven, as far as I know. Llamas do indeed have syphilis, though we just don’t know if they gave it to us.
As for Guns, Germs and Steel — its faults outweigh its good points. He presents various bits of well-known historical trivia and marshalls them in such a way to belittle Europe and Asia, basically saying “You just got lucky.” I could sit here debunking it all day long (and I have, elsewhere), but I’ll spare everyone the details!
Oh, debunk away! That book drives me nuts. My daughter had to read it for school. She got very tired of hearing me tell her what was wrong with it.
| 402 |
jorline Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:40:34am |
re: #364 doppelganglander
How is that working for you? I hope you’re doing well. You should probably call your doctor if you think there’s any chance you’ve been exposed, or could be.
Already talking with him…I just finished a five day Z=Pack last week…it’s still in my chest and the Rheumy had me skip my Humira shot last Wednesday.
It’s gross, but waiting for clear phlegm.
I’m currently weaning off of prednisone…30 days and we will evaluate the Humira on my next visit in six weeks…maybe move to another DMARD.
Thanks for asking. :)
| 403 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:40:40am |
re: #398 rightymouse
’s ok, rightymouse, you had to sign up for free trial to get it. :-)
I did see somewhere (amongst the many links I read this morning) that it had been confirmed, yes. Sorry I can’t back that with link.
| 404 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:40:57am |
re: #382 rightymouse
I’ve seen several articles about him dying of flu-like symptoms, but there was one I read (danged If I can remember where) that said he actually died of a heart attack. Will see if I can find it.
The newspaper Reforma reported that President Obama, who recently visited Mexico, was escorted around Mexico City’s national anthropology museum on April 16 by Felipe Solis, an archaeologist who died the next day from flu-like symptoms. But Dr. Córdova said that it does not appear that Mr. Solis died of influenza.
| 405 |
itellu3times Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:41:00am |
re: #387 LGoPs
Wasn’t that where the response “God bless you” originated from? A blessing to ward off illness?
I believe it was fear that the sneeze would expel your soul.
| 406 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:41:10am |
| 407 |
BabsJay Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:41:52am |
re: #284 BryanS
What I’ve read that worries officials is that the same pattern of deaths among the young and healthy, but not younger than 3yr and older than 60yr, are the ones that are dying—but only in Mexico. That pattern of deaths is what has the WHO worried. But it is confusing as to why the death rates appear only to be high in Mexico. I’m not clued in enough to know the all the facts of the situation, but I wonder if there are differences between the Mexico strain and the others found in the US/elsewhere.
I’ve read a lot about the 1918 flu. Flu mutation is rapid and unpredictable. The 1918 flu apparently went through a deadly, then a mild stage and then the deadly stage that spread world wide. Doesn’t mean this flu will do the same, but I think that may be why the WHO said it may turn into a deadly Pandemic form(just to cover all the bases). Hey, better to be safe than sorry. And because this flu is following the same pattern with the ages of those who have died in Mexico I can see the reason for concern.
The reason people in their 20s and 30s were at a higher risk in 1918 is because of their immune systems being at their peak. Their systems threw everything they had at the flu when it was in the lungs, literally clogging the lungs. Older and younger patients didn’t have this reaction. But the flu itself was so severe that secondary infections were commonplace in those who were younger or older. Especially because people went back to work when they were starting to feel better, but were still compromised.
The government flu site does advise having spare batteries and a radio etc. So many people got sick at one time in one place in 1918 that whole cities shut down. Two weeks worth of food(don’t forget to stock up on pet food too), bottled water etc is a good idea(seconding all those who already wrote that).
| 408 |
lurking faith Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:42:24am |
re: #372 Killgore Trout
I feel for you. I’m on the brink of dropping my health insurance because I can’t really afford it anymore. I worry about getting sick because it would put the burden on somebody else. Very tough decision.
Have you looked for insurance that covers only major medical events? Sometimes that is available for significantly less than a plan that also covers preventative care and minor illnesses.
| 409 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:42:27am |
re: #391 pink freud
And in the case of an hypothetical epidemic they would proceed to vaccinate all the population, that is the statement I would not trust.
| 410 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:43:01am |
re: #407 BabsJay
Can you recommend a good book on the 1918 epidemic for the general reader?
| 411 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:43:38am |
re: #394 snowcrash
After SARS scare 5 years ago there are plenty of supplies of Tamiflu, mechanical ventilators, gloves and masks. Hospitals are well prepared for the VERY ill. If you are generally healthy, and you develop flu like symptoms, high fever, muscle and body aches, head aches and cough, stay home and treat it yourself. Make sure you have the stuff you need to treat 3-5 days of high fevers and then weakness. I work in a large urban county hospital that serves the indigent and underserved (Lol) so I’m just telling you what I know.
Upding.
| 412 |
jorline Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:44:15am |
re: #389 Walter L. Newton
OT -
Well, I’m out of here. Got to get ready for tonight’s show. Yea, a live theatre, with live audience, enclosed small place, we serve drinks, glasses, and rest rooms, and all sort of places to pick up little critters.
Fun, sure.
Pass out these at the door…good luck tonight.
| 413 |
MacDuff Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:44:39am |
re: #375 Walter L. Newton
Look, I fully realize the “humor” that goes on in the medical profession (or any profession for that matter). My concern that the humor among the population will try to diminish the possible seriousness of this.
Yes, you can find humor in your profession, since you have to put up with some amazingly stressful situations (my ex-wife is a saint, working in the medical profession as long as she has, and putting up with what she has had to put up with), but, we are not in the break room talking shop here.
I don’t think we should make light of this. Silly me.
I’ve been watching this conversation, please allow me to make a point.
I think that excessive jokes about a situation that is even now developing tend to diminish the importance of taking basic precautions.
That said, having dealt with a moderate stroke within the last 8 months, I did find that a little self deprecating humor was enormously helpful. It put others at ease and enabled me to deal with my predicament in a more lighthearted manner. I found the approach to be enormously therapeutic.
| 414 |
pink freud Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:45:23am |
re: #412 jorline
You’re in my thoughts, Jorline. Prayers for your successful return to good health.
| 415 |
Abu Bin Squid Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:45:35am |
re: #389 Walter L. Newton
Ever the drama queen. Buh-bye.
| 416 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:46:24am |
Am going to tackle the weeds in the rose gardens again. It’s a brutal 86 degrees today. Not that I’m complaining or anything…. :)
| 417 |
BabsJay Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:47:20am |
re: #410 doppelganglander
Can you recommend a good book on the 1918 epidemic for the general reader?
“The Great Influenza” by John M. Barry. Great book
| 418 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:47:48am |
Just a thought:
Waddaya wanna bet that woman in Israel with the eight autism-free, unvaccinated kids just maybe might change her mind if people start dropping like flies and the government recommends flu shots for everyone?
And that Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey are having their own kid(s) inoculated by special-delivery valet medical service as we type?
| 419 |
jorline Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:49:42am |
re: #414 pink freud
You’re in my thoughts, Jorline. Prayers for your successful return to good health.
Thank you pink…good to see you.
| 420 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:50:03am |
re: #418 Cato the Elder
Just a thought:
Waddaya wanna bet that woman in Israel with the eight autism-free, unvaccinated kids just maybe might change her mind if people start dropping like flies and the government recommends flu shots for everyone?
And that Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey are having their own kid(s) inoculated by special-delivery valet medical service as we type?
That was one of the reasons large families used to be commonplace. Something about losing half your children to disease, now prevented by routine vaccinations.
| 421 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:50:04am |
re: #403 pink freud
’s ok, rightymouse, you had to sign up for free trial to get it. :-)
I did see somewhere (amongst the many links I read this morning) that it had been confirmed, yes. Sorry I can’t back that with link.
See Bobibutu’s #404 post. I believe that’s the one I saw. :)
| 422 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:50:14am |
re: #390 zombie
I could sit here debunking it all day long
Highlights, please. (I thought the book was quite good, and seemed conceptually strong.)
| 424 |
rightymouse Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:50:46am |
re: #404 Bobibutu
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
The newspaper Reforma reported that President Obama, who recently visited Mexico, was escorted around Mexico City’s national anthropology museum on April 16 by Felipe Solis, an archaeologist who died the next day from flu-like symptoms. But Dr. Córdova said that it does not appear that Mr. Solis died of influenza.
That’s the one I saw. Thanks! :)
Off to tackle the weeds from hell outside.
| 425 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:51:47am |
But it is confusing as to why the death rates appear only to be high in Mexico. I’m not clued in enough to know the all the facts of the situation, but I wonder if there are differences between the Mexico strain and the others found in the US/elsewhere.
Possibly… I also wonder if the astonishingly bad air quality in Mexico City might have something to do with it, in that it promotes opportunistic upper respiratory infections.
| 426 |
zombie Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:51:52am |
re: #401 doppelganglander
Oh, debunk away! That book drives me nuts. My daughter had to read it for school. She got very tired of hearing me tell her what was wrong with it.
Sadly, I am very busy today, and just don’t have the gumption or time to go on a debunking spree!
| 429 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:53:10am |
| 430 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:54:34am |
re: #401 doppelganglander
Oh, debunk away! That book drives me nuts. My daughter had to read it for school. She got very tired of hearing me tell her what was wrong with it.
Since zombie is busy… what do you think was wrong with it?
| 431 |
BryanS Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:57:36am |
re: #425 Occasional Reader
Possibly… I also wonder if the astonishingly bad air quality in Mexico City might have something to do with it, in that it promotes opportunistic upper respiratory infections.
There could be some other factor. Who really knows—let’s hope that factor is discovered so we know what we are up against. This all could have started with a swine flu hitting the population in a non-alarming way—this the apparent wide distribution—and the Mexico cases are a more lethal mutation. Or, with general living conditions in Mexico worse than in the US, possibly poor control of opportunistic infections explains it.
| 432 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:57:55am |
re: #417 BabsJay
“The Great Influenza” by John M. Barry. Great book
Keep promoting books like that one, and you could be indicted for influenza-peddling.
/
| 433 |
Truck Monkey Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:58:31am |
re: #389 Walter L. Newton
OT -
Well, I’m out of here. Got to get ready for tonight’s show. Yea, a live theatre, with live audience, enclosed small place, we serve drinks, glasses, and rest rooms, and all sort of places to pick up little critters.
Fun, sure.
Have you heard the one about the Ham Sandwich that went into a bar and ordered a drink only to be told they don’t serve food there?
| 434 |
zombie Sun, Apr 26, 2009 11:59:07am |
re: #422 Occasional Reader
Highlights, please. (I thought the book was quite good, and seemed conceptually strong.)
See comment #426.
Debunking it is very time-consuming. I gotta log off in a few minutes.
Basically, he argues backwards from known conclusions and then “proves” that they were inevitable. But if things had turned out a different way, it would have been just as easy to “prove” that the alternate outcome was just as inevitable.
Africa and South America have superior climate, superior soil, superior natural mineral resources, superior animals, superior plants, superior lots of stuff. If they had come to dominate the world, some other author would now be writing, “Oh, the continents of Africa and South America had all the advantages. Of course they did better than the other continents! With all those extra resources, they couldn’t fail!”
| 435 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:02:24pm |
re: #434 zombie
See comment #426.
Debunking it is very time-consuming. I gotta log off in a few minutes.
Basically, he argues backwards from known conclusions and then “proves” that they were inevitable. But if things had turned out a different way, it would have been just as easy to “prove” that the alternate outcome was just as inevitable.
Africa and South America have superior climate, superior soil, superior natural mineral resources, superior animals, superior plants, superior lots of stuff. If they had come to dominate the world, some other author would now be writing, “Oh, the continents of Africa and South America had all the advantages. Of course they did better than the other continents! With all those extra resources, they couldn’t fail!”
Well… I have to say, your “debunking” argument “proves too much”, as the formal rhetoricians would say. By those lights, ANY attempted explanation for why Eurasia surpassed Africa and the Americas technologically is futile.
| 436 |
Perplexed Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:04:04pm |
| 437 |
baldeagle Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:07:09pm |
For what its worth to anyone; when I was flying for a major airline out of Guam and we had numerous stations in Japan,,,the customs and health agents would take our temperature whenever we arrived during the SARs scare.
| 438 |
Lincolntf Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:07:21pm |
re: #433 Truck Monkey
Which reminds me of an old, lame joke that I can’t stop telling.
A piece of rope walks into a bar, sits down and orders a drink. The bartender says “Sorry, but we don’t serve ropes in these parts, you’re gonna have to leave.”
The rope walks outside, twists himself into a tangle and chops away at his own head. He walks back inside and the bartender says “Hey don’t I know you, and aren’t you a rope”?
The reply: “No, I’m a frayed knot.”
| 439 |
doppelganglander Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:12:49pm |
re: #430 Occasional Reader
Since zombie is busy… what do you think was wrong with it?
Whew, I am not qualified to pick it apart scientifically, and I’m sure zombie has spent much more time on this than I have. My objections were largely to the anti-Western tone and the sense that we should almost be ashamed our ancestors were successful. A lot of the connections he makes seem highly speculative, and there could be many other reasons things turned out as they did. His romanticizing of the Papua New Guinea tribesmen is off-putting to me. It reinforces my sense that his real purpose is to blame Europeans for all that is wrong in the world, possibly as a prelude to some sort of enormous wealth transfer scheme. After all, if our modern marvels are the result of unfair natural advantages, shouldn’t we share? Or maybe we should give them all up and live like the happy tribal peoples of the world.
If I don’t respond, I’m not dodging you — I have to do a couple of chores but I’ll probably be around later.
| 441 |
mspfacs Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:15:49pm |
Tamiflu is excellent a similar anti viral to Relenza. One is nasally applied the other oral. Do not worry about any complications you might read about they work. Also if one has an overactive immune response big cause of problems streoids eg. medrol dose pack is helpful. Besides hand washing,masks,avoiding crowds-movies, 1-3D beta glucan taken as a suppliment at 500mg 2x per day has been shown to prevent bird flu-good luck
| 442 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:18:16pm |
re: #439 doppelganglander
My objections were largely to the anti-Western tone and the sense that we should almost be ashamed our ancestors were successful.
Huh?! I confess it’s been a while since I’ve read the book, but I don’t recall any “anti-Western” sentiment.
His romanticizing of the Papua New Guinea tribesmen is off-putting to me.
And I definitely don’t recall that… in fact, I very much DO recall his description of how their hunters, when encountering each other in the forest, would sit down and ask each other questions about their kinship… to figure out if they were somehow related… because if not, they’d feel compelled to try to kill each other. And he went on to point out that hunter-gatherer societies, as best as anthropologists can tell, tend to have staggeringly high homicide rates, as a result of just that sort of thinking.
It reinforces my sense that his real purpose is to blame Europeans for all that is wrong in the world,
Again, not my recollection. I remember that he speculates that if Africans had managed to domesticate their native megafauna, one could have postuled African conquerors riding into Europe on trained rhinocerii. That is to say, the Europeans weren’t somehow morally inferior, they just wound up better placed to do the same sort of conquest that everyone was doing.
| 443 |
zombie Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:25:46pm |
re: #439 doppelganglander
Whew, I am not qualified to pick it apart scientifically, and I’m sure zombie has spent much more time on this than I have. My objections were largely to the anti-Western tone and the sense that we should almost be ashamed our ancestors were successful. A lot of the connections he makes seem highly speculative, and there could be many other reasons things turned out as they did. His romanticizing of the Papua New Guinea tribesmen is off-putting to me. It reinforces my sense that his real purpose is to blame Europeans for all that is wrong in the world, possibly as a prelude to some sort of enormous wealth transfer scheme. After all, if our modern marvels are the result of unfair natural advantages, shouldn’t we share? Or maybe we should give them all up and live like the happy tribal peoples of the world.
If I don’t respond, I’m not dodging you — I have to do a couple of chores but I’ll probably be around later.
re: #442 Occasional Reader
Again, not my recollection. I remember that he speculates that if Africans had managed to domesticate their native megafauna, one could have postuled African conquerors riding into Europe on trained rhinocerii. That is to say, the Europeans weren’t somehow morally inferior, they just wound up better placed to do the same sort of conquest that everyone was doing.
doppelganglander is entirely correct, OR. Diamond has repeatedly said in interviews (and hinted at in the book itself) that his goal was to belittle Eurasia and Eurasian accomplishments, and to induce a sense of shame and lack of pride by Europeans and Asians. And yes, he did this as par of his far-left ideology.
The book is frequently assigned as a school textbook, and the accompanying discussions are always along the lines of, “Analyze why the descendents of Europeans and Asians have no valid reason to feel good about their ancestors’ accomplishments.”
| 444 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:29:04pm |
re: #320 Caton
7 Confirmed now in Spain by the government. So go figure the real number.
| 445 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:31:08pm |
re: #443 zombie
Diamond has repeatedly said in interviews (and hinted at in the book itself) that his goal was to belittle Eurasia and Eurasian accomplishments,
I have to say: Source, please.
And I’d want to read carefully before deciding that his goal was to “belittle”. For instance, merely suggesting that Europeans and Asians did not get ahead because of some sort of natural superiority is not “belittling”.
| 446 |
dry_heavz_4_alla Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:38:26pm |
re: #171 Buck
Frankly, I have been told that a temperature test is very effective… a fever is present almost always… It can be done using IR cameras.. and done at the same time as the metal detector…
This may have already been posted, but Japan started implementing thermographic imaging yesterday. Don’t know if we even have this widely available in the US.
search.japantimes.co.jp
| 447 |
joncelli Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:47:34pm |
re: #185 Nevergiveup
What is it about the Brits and leaving classified material lying around? I can think of three instances off the top of my head of Brit personnel doing this, and you never hear of other county’s personnel doing this.
| 448 |
zombie Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:51:28pm |
re: #445 Occasional Reader
I have to say: Source, please.
Most of those interviews were when the book first came out, and I read them in print hard-copy sources, back before most stuff was on the Web. It’d be a big project to dig them out at this stage. And, as mention, I shouldn’t even be here making this comment, as other duties beckon!
And I’d want to read carefully before deciding that his goal was to “belittle”. For instance, merely suggesting that Europeans and Asians did not get ahead because of some sort of natural superiority is not “belittling”.
Well, “belittle” is my word. But I think it accurately sums up his attitude. Asians and Middle Easterners and Europeans spent 5,000 years creating a civilization that went on to dominate the globe. Diamond wants to attribute that entirely to luck. And while luck may have been a factor, it boggles the brain to imagine that effort, foresight, inspiration, cultural values and whatever other factors didn’t play a major role too.
I understand his goal is to deflate any misplaced “white pride” or “Asian pride” or “Arab Pride” or whatever. Which goal has its value, since any individual living today is not personally responsible for the achievements of his ethnic forebears. (And since anyone who wants to coast on and derive glory from his ethnic identity is inevitably a loser.) But while Diamond’s goal may have been somewhat admirable, he tears own the entire edifice of western and Asian civilization in order to make sure no one gets a swelled head.
His goal is not “income redistribution: but “self-esteem reditribution.”
| 449 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:56:20pm |
re: #448 zombie
Diamond wants to attribute that entirely to luck. And while luck may have been a factor, it boggles the brain to imagine that effort, foresight, inspiration, cultural values and whatever other factors didn’t play a major role too.
I think that’s a misreading of his thesis. He did not say that Eurasian dominance was the result of sheer dumb geographical luck, and nothing else. He is asking the WHY behind the fact that those societies advanced more technologically, had more complex social structures, and, yes, developed some resistance to this nasty pathogens that ended up being so decisive in determining who conquered whom. He is not seeking to REPLACE culture, etc. with those observations, he’s asking the “why” BEHIND the cultures.
| 450 |
FrogMarch Sun, Apr 26, 2009 12:59:12pm |
file under: how odd—
The first case was seen in Mexico on April 13. The outbreak coincided with the President Barack Obama’s trip to Mexico City on April 16. Obama was received at Mexico’s anthropology museum in Mexico City by Felipe Solis, a distinguished archeologist who died the following day from symptoms similar to flu, Reforma newspaper reported. The newspaper didn’t confirm if Solis had swine flu or not.
| 451 |
6pat6 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:00:25pm |
Our wonderful gub’mint knew of the flu problem long ago, IMO. Can’t close the borders, though, so we can let it get to NYC, Nova Scotia, TX, NM, and other places, and then say “Oops, too late, can’t do anything about it now!” Better to let the swine flu in. We can’t let folks NOT suffer, can we?
| 452 |
6pat6 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:02:27pm |
Like our all-knowing White House Chief of Staff said - “Can’t let a good crisis go to waste”, or something along those lines.
| 453 |
kansas Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:02:52pm |
re: #37 Zimriel
Here we go again.
Guys: this is not a manufactured emergency whose “timing” we must “question”. This is the real deal. If you want to keep trivialising this, I’d prefer it if you kept it at the “Loose Change” forums; I don’t want to read it here.
Maybe not, but Janet doesn’t think it’s necessary to be concerned about making sure passengers getting off flights are getting tested. What’s that about?
lite.alertnet.org
| 454 |
6pat6 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:05:53pm |
Remember the swine flu epidemic that occurred during the Ford Administration, in 1975, IIRC? Around my area, at that time, I don’t remember anyone getting it, though I do remember a really big deal was made about swine flu then. Hopefully, this potential pandemic ends up being nothing.
| 455 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:14:05pm |
The Spanish Flu pandemic sprung up in distant continents almost simultaneously. Remember, this was in an age (1918) when long distance travel was no were near as “fast” or as common as it is today.
I don’t really think closing borders and restricting travel will have any significant affect.
| 456 |
dry_heavz_4_alla Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:24:39pm |
re: #455 Slumbering Behemoth
The Spanish Flu pandemic sprung up in distant continents almost simultaneously. Remember, this was in an age (1918) when long distance travel was no were near as “fast” or as common as it is today.
I don’t really think closing borders and restricting travel will have any significant affect.
Cool animated pandemic model posted in yesterday’s flu thread this morning by aggieann. Model peaks at 90 days. Bear in mind, this model (from 3 yrs ago) assumes that the virus was detected after only 10 cases in LA, and that subsequent travel advisories cut travel by 90%, so, at this point, we’re probably much closer to the rapid ramp-up portion of the curve already.
livescience.com
| 457 |
dkorta Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:25:54pm |
re: #449 Occasional Reader
If you have a few hours to kill check out the 1000+ reviews of Diamond’s book on Amazon for a variety of perspectives on the book. As an antidote to Diamond, you might also try reading “The Wealth and Poverty of Nations” by David S. Landes or at least the 160 or so comments about the book at Amazon.
I read both books and managed to retain nothing from either, which does not necessarily speak to the quality of either book, but it does excuse me from making further comments on their contents.
| 458 |
dry_heavz_4_alla Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:33:36pm |
The most optimistic outcome I can think of is that the virus will mutate into something relatively benign, and that variant will spread rapidly (being “under the radar” as it were) effectively immunizing the population to the more lethal variant (like cow pox vs. small pox). This may be what we’re witnessing with the milder forms of the strain being reported in the US.
| 459 |
nyc redneck Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:37:34pm |
re: #379 LGoPs
When I was in the Army I found humor to be an excellent tool when dealing with stressful situations. And it was infectious (no pun intended). It would relieve my soldier’s stress as well.
humor can get you thru the worst situation.
in fact humor is thought to have originated in humans as a stress reliever.
| 460 |
Wendya Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:41:31pm |
re: #196 snowcrash
Said it last night (and got dinged down) but here goes again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you have plenty of Tylenol, clear liquids, soup, crackers etc in the house in case you get sick and can’t get out. CDC says fever can last 3-5 days with general body aches and pain for up to 10.
If I could have updinged you twice, I would have. Once for the excellent recommendation and the other for that beautiful Boston Terrier in your avatar.
| 461 |
dry_heavz_4_alla Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:44:05pm |
re: #458 dry_heavz_4_alla
The most optimistic outcome I can think of is that the virus will mutate into something relatively benign, and that variant will spread rapidly (being “under the radar” as it were) effectively immunizing the population to the more lethal variant (like cow pox vs. small pox). This may be what we’re witnessing with the milder forms of the strain being reported
in the US.
It could also be that such a mutation has already occurred and become dominent inside Mexico (thus the lack of deaths elsewhere … so far). This is the sort of thing the CDC/WHO might be able to determine in the next few days with additional testing.
| 462 |
dry_heavz_4_alla Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:57:07pm |
re: #461 dry_heavz_4_alla
It could also be that such a mutation has already occurred and become dominent inside Mexico (thus the lack of deaths elsewhere … so far). This is the sort of thing the CDC/WHO might be able to determine in the next few days with additional testing.
On further thought, it could just as well be that the deadly variant of the strain is the more recent mutation … hmmm.
/armchair epidemiologist off. Think I’ll just go wash my hands now.
| 463 |
SixDegrees Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:13:34pm |
re: #455 Slumbering Behemoth
The Spanish Flu pandemic sprung up in distant continents almost simultaneously. Remember, this was in an age (1918) when long distance travel was no were near as “fast” or as common as it is today.
I don’t really think closing borders and restricting travel will have any significant affect.
Tend to agree. ‘Swine’ flu develops thanks to the close association of humans, pigs - and poultry - mainly in rural China. Once a strain develops that sickens humans, it spreads rapidly, and can easily infect birds. Worldwide transmission is practically guaranteed.
I’d wait a couple more weeks to see how actual mortality rates pan out; it’s too early to sort this out yet. Right now, anyone with symptoms even remotely resembling flu is getting tossed into that category; there’s no definitive test being done to see if it really is flu, and even if it is there’s no assurance that it’s this particular strain. Given it’s prevalence in the Mexico City area, which has a huge population density, I’d guess that there are at least tens of thousands of cases, perhaps many more than that; the death rate shrivels in light of this. Given Mexico’s official recommendation that people wear painter’s masks as a preventative measure, it’s safe to say that Mexico’s public health system…totally sucks.
Way too early to be creating a panic over this, which the media and Napolitano seem intent on doing. Give this another day or two, at most, and you’ll start seeing a flood of ‘cases’ caused by suggestion alone, further escalating the panic, leading to more reports, in a sort of anti-placebo effect.
I’m getting really sick of this Administration openly engaging in on-th-job training, and coming across looking like dismal amateurs when the country really needs leadership.
If Janet shows up on television with a painter’s mask on, I’m going to barf. And it won’t be because of the flu.
| 464 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:37:09pm |
re: #441 mspfacs
Tamiflu is excellent a similar anti viral to Relenza. One is nasally applied the other oral. Do not worry about any complications you might read about they work. Also if one has an overactive immune response big cause of problems streoids eg. medrol dose pack is helpful. Besides hand washing,masks,avoiding crowds-movies, 1-3D beta glucan taken as a suppliment at 500mg 2x per day has been shown to prevent bird flu-good luck
Again I ask: are these drugs to be taken prophylactically (prevention) or after infection (treatment)?
| 465 |
Tigger2005 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:39:06pm |
A good reason to exercise and stay healthy, no matter what your age.
Sounds like the symptoms suck, but nothing a healthy individual can’t survive. And once you beat it you’re immune, at least until those nasty buggers evolve again.
| 466 |
gatorbait Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:46:05pm |
re: #10 moonflower
Never let a good crisis go to waste. I wonder what rights we will be losing now.
the right to arm bears
| 467 |
Cato Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:53:50pm |
re: #370 SlartyBartfast
I grew up in a small town in the Catskill Mountains that was inhabited, primarily, by Jews who came there to get better from “the consumption”. While not really an isolated ghetto, it was for a good portion of its history a convalescent home community filled with people who at one time had been quarantined. I know the stories well.
| 468 |
So? Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:55:52pm |
oh, the swine flu has finally made it to a thread on LGF as a serious story
| 469 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:56:30pm |
re: #437 baldeagle
For what its worth to anyone; when I was flying for a major airline out of Guam and we had numerous stations in Japan,,,the customs and health agents would take our temperature whenever we arrived during the SARs scare.
Asians didn’t have their own grievance group to harrass DHS though….Mexicans do.
| 470 |
Capitalistincharge Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:57:58pm |
Just got off the phone with my pop who was Director of Public Health for our state for 22 years (retired now). I followed in his footsteps and got my degree in Public Health. We concur that if they are saying there are only 1300 cases in Mexico and 20 in the US that it really means there are many many more that are in incubation. The next few days are going to be eye openers for everyone. The virus has the ability to mutate to something far more dangerous than what is evident right now in the US. In his words, time to stick close to home and plan to hunker down for awhile. The next 7 days are going to be very telling. This is definately nothing to take lightly. Nobody needs to panic, you need to prepare.
| 471 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:58:02pm |
| 472 |
Capitalistincharge Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:00:16pm |
re: #464 Cato the Elder
They are taken within the first 48 hours after the first flu symptoms. They won’t cure you, just lighten the symptoms.
| 474 |
Bullskin Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:12:19pm |
Correction: the eight ones in Spain are not confirmed.
| 475 |
dry_heavz_4_alla Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:15:56pm |
re: #463 SixDegrees
Not that I don’t enjoy any legitimate opportunity to pile on all things Obama, but I have to disagree with you on this one. There ARE tests to quickly identify a virus as flu, and follow-up tests to identify the strain and variant of strain.
Also, if the government were to wait weeks to publicly respond, there would not only be sea of misinformation feeding a panic, but there would be outrage at the government’s inaction/ineptness. And I thought the differentiation made between “emergency” and “emergency preparedness” was well emphasized.
| 476 |
summergurl Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:17:05pm |
re: #39 redshirt
I wonder if Roche Laboratories, the makers of Tamiflu, will suffer a “windfall profits tax” as I am sure they will make out like bandits during this outbreak.
On a serious note, let us take this moment to thank the Pharma companies and their employees for the drugs that keep this world safe. I hope that anybody who ever criticized them as evil corporations doesn’t get the shot.
Oh but the windfall profits tx only applies to the evil oil companies. YOu know, companies that take “advantage” of us in a time of need//
| 477 |
Tracy Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:19:27pm |
I live in the area in TX where the flu cases are….they’ve been saying on the nat. news 2 cases, but on the local news last night they’d said another teen had it which by my count should have made it 3….so I’m not sure where we’re at here.
We were also asked to not hold church services today. Most of the churches complied with the request, I did see one church that had apparently held services, but it’s a huge church and I don’t see how they would have gotten the word out at the last minute…the request went out late yesterday afternoon.
I’m not sure what they’re doing about school tomorrow, I homeschool so I don’t pay attention to that.
A part of me tends to feel like this is a bit of over reaction, but I’m not sure.
| 478 |
summergurl Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:22:15pm |
re: #196 snowcrash
Said it last night (and got dinged down) but here goes again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you have plenty of Tylenol, clear liquids, soup, crackers etc in the house in case you get sick and can’t get out. CDC says fever can last 3-5 days with general body aches and pain for up to 10.
I always keep those things handy- alongwith Gatorade, bottled water, flashlights and batteries.
| 479 |
aggieann Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:34:24pm |
re: #410 doppelganglander
Can you recommend a good book on the 1918 epidemic for the general reader?
“Flu” and “The Great Influenza” are both fascinating.
| 481 |
cra451 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:40:26pm |
As a recent victim of a “flu” I can tell you it was miserable. I’m used to flem and other issues. But this was the worst I have ever experienced. Since I’m better now, so I don’t think I can test for it. But I really hope everyone stays well and doesn’t get what I had. What ever it was.
We just need to hang in there and support each other as best that we can.
| 482 |
dry_heavz_4_alla Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:41:17pm |
re: #470 Capitalistincharge
Any thoughts on my #458 (and follow-ups) above? Is mutation into something less virulent just as likely?
| 483 |
Zimriel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:46:49pm |
re: #453 kansas
Maybe not, but Janet doesn’t think it’s necessary to be concerned about making sure passengers getting off flights are getting tested. What’s that about?
[Link: from Reuters, alertnet]
I don’t know. I don’t think much of her leadership of DHS thus far. Either she’s been told all this will blow over, or else she’s screwed up again.
Neither of these possibilities warrant paranoia about a “manufactured crisis”.
| 484 |
funky chicken Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:54:04pm |
re: #450 FrogMarch
Solis apparently died of a heart attack, not the flu.
| 486 |
A Kiwi Infidel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:08:58pm |
re: #11 Nevergiveup
10 New Zealand Students ‘Likely’ Have Swine Flu
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]
Not for nothing, but if anything really serious ever got out there, we are really fucked.
Indeed, not good news. In the wrong place at the wrong time and they have been closeted on a plane with 300+ other passengers for the 12 hour journey.
I will be very wary……..
| 488 |
A Kiwi Infidel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:11:52pm |
re: #91 Bullskin
A brisk descent in population would be nice for the government right now.
Your comment bears all the hallmarks of dinnerjacket’s wishlist to bring the “maghdi” out of his well……..
| 492 |
So? Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:13:03pm |
What about a border lock down? Oh, I forgot Obama is playing golf.
DO NOT DISTURB
| 493 |
So? Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:13:55pm |
| 494 |
A Kiwi Infidel Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:14:42pm |
re: #490 buzzsawmonkey
Persian golf.
I dont play golf but the thought of a zillion square mile sand trap doesnt bear thinking about……
| 495 |
LieSeeker Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:16:53pm |
It’s not an emergency until “national guard” and “border” are in the same sentence.
And why is there no qualified Surgeon General yet to advise the President? Aren’t doctors paid enough to buy that office?
| 496 |
Capitalistincharge Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:31:09pm |
re: #482 dry_heavz_4_alla
Certainly it can become less virulant, as we have seen in some of the cases already in the US. Someone with more expertise correct me if I’m wrong but, with a strain such as this, it can go either way. I am not waiting on preparation to see if it goes from bad to not so bad or vice versa.
| 497 |
aggieann Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:42:34pm |
Here’s an intriguing animated map of the spread of the flu in 1918:
From Sept. 14 to Oct. 5, it penetrated the vast majority of the American population. Granted, intercontinental travel was facilitated by WWI, but still … it boggles the mind to think of how fast it would spread today, with jet travel, etc.
| 498 |
SixDegrees Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:48:31pm |
re: #471 funky chicken
false
I disagree. I don’t think many of the ‘diagnoses’ that have been performed so far have actually tested anyone to see if they’re suffering from the flu. Much more likely, doctors are doing a cursory check of symptoms, and putting anything even remotely flu-like in the “flu” column. It’s not like you can do a throat swab and run a culture. And as already noted, medical resources in Mexico seem to be…less than stunning.
| 499 |
SixDegrees Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:52:18pm |
re: #475 dry_heavz_4_alla
Not that I don’t enjoy any legitimate opportunity to pile on all things Obama, but I have to disagree with you on this one. There ARE tests to quickly identify a virus as flu, and follow-up tests to identify the strain and variant of strain.
Also, if the government were to wait weeks to publicly respond, there would not only be sea of misinformation feeding a panic, but there would be outrage at the government’s inaction/ineptness. And I thought the differentiation made between “emergency” and “emergency preparedness” was well emphasized.
Agree, but the feeling I’m getting from Napolitano is the same feeling I get when watching a chicken with it’s head cut off run around in panic over not having anyone in central control telling it what to do anymore.
Also, the Bird Flu fiasco of just a few years ago is fresh in my mind, complete with it’s predictions of wiping out all avian life in North America, followed by the extermination of human life closely behind.
I’d rather wait for real stats. As someone else pointed out, it’s what develops over the next week or two that will tell the tale.
| 500 |
SixDegrees Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:57:54pm |
re: #482 dry_heavz_4_alla
Any thoughts on my #458 (and follow-ups) above? Is mutation into something less virulent just as likely?
Mutation into something benign - or flat-out unworkable - is much more likely than mutation into a more virulent strain. Virulence requires fine tuning in order to work, and it is not a good survival strategy from the virus’ perspective - killing your host or limiting it’s travel doesn’t work to spread your descendants around.
The problem is that there are billions of individual viruses, each slightly different, in every individual sickened. Of these, those that cause really bad sickness, though very few in number, are the ones that really go on to make a name for themselves. Their slacker cousins, producing a case of the sniffles or less, just don’t get any recognition, despite their larger numbers.
| 501 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:17:42pm |
re: #370 SlartyBartfast
My mother and grandmother both had TB during the 1940 and had to report to the state sanatorium. If they hadn’t gone voluntarily, the state (of MO) was empowered by law to take them there against their will.
With regard to the AIDS epidemic, I can still remember my parents discussing how times had changed and how there would be a public outcry if anyone even suggested that manner of response to AIDS infection. […]
Maybe that’s because AIDS is not contagious under non-intimate conditions? Kinda makes a difference, don’t you think?
| 502 |
John_in_VA Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:18:55pm |
On the plus side, due to the efforts of bird conservationists, Canadian geese don’t migrate much these days, so that should slow down the spread of any avian flu a bit. Call it a fringe benefit from all the airliner bird strikes.
On the minus side, we really need some sort of play book to sort out all the strains of masks being worn around the US/Mexican border these days. There’s police wearing masks, drug cartel members wearing masks, both of these groups pretending to be the other group wearing masks, gun and drug runners wearing masks, practicing Muslim illegal aliens en route for US driver’s license photos wearing masks, and now both US and Mexican citizens concerned about the flu wearing masks.
| 503 |
6pat6 Sun, Apr 26, 2009 7:24:48pm |
When I was active duty, every time I was forced to get the annual flu vaccine, I got the damn flu. EVERY time. I don’t care what anyone says, sometimes that shot causes the problem. Been out several years, no flu shots, no flu. Hmmmm.
| 504 |
kayfromcarroll Sun, Apr 26, 2009 7:39:32pm |
| 505 |
chotii Sun, Apr 26, 2009 8:45:46pm |
I recently read both The Great Influenza: The story of the deadliest pandemic in history by John M. Barry and Flu : The Story Of The Great Influenza Pandemic by Gina Kolata
The first is dry, academic, horrifying, and mostly limits itself to the actual flu of 1918. The second touches on that in a much more sensationalistic fashion, but also talks about other big flus including the one in 1968, and the H1V5 avian flu that is circulating in Asia and Egypt, to name a few locations.
Also, consider this: though there have not yet been any fatalities among American cases of this specific current flu…..there haven’t been many cases yet. If there have been over 1000 known or suspected cases in Mexico, and 80 people have died….that’s an 8% mortality. We haven’t had enough people sick here to see if it pans out the same, here.
Also, by the way…..*if* this particular flu affects healthy immune systems the way the other did in 1918…the WORST thing you could do for yourself is to be healthy. That’s a great irony, but still true. Compounding the problem in 1918 was that thousands of healthy, robust young men fresh off the farms were crammed and crowded in military camps, preparatory to going to war. It was a smorgasbord for the virus, and it ate through them, horrifyingly swift and brutal.
The closest approximation I can think of to that today is our mega-sized urban and suburban government schools, with thousands of young people all in close proximity all day, 5 days a week. Well, that and malls, and stadiums.
| 506 |
wonk-a-donk Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:29:04pm |
What’s in a name anyway?
Press calling it the “Swine Flu” and of course, the pork industry doesn’t like that one bit — bad for bacon sales…
Ja-Na is trying to label it the “H1-N1” virus… wow, that was really rolling off their tongues at the press conference… Who do they think they’re foolin’?
Obama just reads what his teleprompter says to read, “don’t worry, be happy.”
I think the Israelis are the closest to having it right, just call it what it is: “Mexican Flu”
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