Bad Craziness Watch: The Mainstreaming of Alex Jones

Politics • Views: 3,757

John Hawkins on the disturbing and destructive “mainstreaming” of conspiracy monger Alex Jones by the right wing: Conservatives Shouldn’t Be Conned: Alex Jones Is Crazypants.

During the 2008 Republican primaries, Ron Paul was semi-regularly appearing on the Alex Jones show. Setting aside any other disagreements I had with Ron Paul, I really didn’t appreciate the fact that he was helping to legitimize a kook by appearing on his show.

Well, since the election, Alex Jones has apparently mainstreamed his website a bit, starting hammering the Democrats much more than he has done over the last few years, and seems to be slowly but surely starting to creep away from the fringes and towards the mainstream on the Right.

I’ve seen more and more conservative websites linking to Jones and now Fox’s Andrew Napolitano is doing his show.

This disturbs me. Let me tell you why.

It’s not just Alex Jones, though; Ron Paul is appearing on Fox News more and more often as well, and kooks like Glenn Beck, Lew Rockwell, and Michele Bachmann are becoming more acceptable to conservative audiences. It’s just more bad craziness.

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413 comments
1 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:26:02am

I could use a little Good Craziness right now.

2 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:26:12am

Clowns on the left. Jokers on the right.

I'm just stuck in the middle.

3 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:26:42am
are becoming more acceptable to conservative audiences

It's the chemtrails.

4 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:26:42am
5 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:28:45am

Alex Jones is what can happen when you go off your meds.

6 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:29:08am

Michelle Bachman reminds me of that congresswoman from... Colorado, I think... we was a "militia" shill back in the Clinton era. I don't recall her name at the moment.

7 cheesehead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:29:39am

No different then the Left when they "mainstreamed" the likes of Dennis Kucinich and Barack Obama. Oh wait...we know how that turned out. Ouch!

8 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:29:50am
9 PISSED  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:30:21am

re: #2 lawhawk

LOL... that sums it ALL up! thanks for the smile lawhawk.

10 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:30:31am

re: #4 taxfreekiller

Bad crazy leaders of the Democrat Party.

John F. Kerry
Al Gore
Nancy Pelosi
Harry Reid
Bill Clinton
Hillbill clinton
B. Obama
Chuck Schummer
Barney Frank
Henry Wachman

You forgot Babs Boxer and whatserface from Georgia.

11 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:30:32am

Alex Jones is bat shit crazy. Ron Paul also espouses some views that make sense but others that are downright dangerous.

However, I really do not see the 'mainstream' elected officials in DC falling into this far right wing conspiracy-driven worldview.

Fox News puts on Ron Paul? They have for a long time, back to when he was 'running' for the nomination...

I still hold fast to the fact that fair minded Americans are angry and are at a tipping point. However, they still know the difference between extreme views and their own ideas.

12 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:31:13am

re: #4 taxfreekiller

And Biden. He's been kept out the light lately. Saw a brief clip of him yesterday shaking hands with people about something. No speeches. Smartest thing the Dems have done thus far IMHO.

13 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:31:19am

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

Helen Chenoweth?

Bingo.

And it was Idaho, not Colorado... my apologies to all you little flyover types. :P

14 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:31:43am

Sorry Charles, I've missed any scuttlebut against Rep. Michelle Bachman who I believe is an elected Minnesota congressional representative and former tax lawyer who seems well-spoken the times I've heard her speak on various issues. What's happened that I've missed? Anyone? Can she be as bad news for Minnesota or America, as Al Franken tipping the Senate majority?

15 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:32:10am

re: #13 Occasional Reader

Bingo.

And it was Idaho, not Colorado... my apologies to all you little flyover types. :P

We've had enough flyovers for one day, thank you very much OR.

16 Syrah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:32:33am

Are these kooks being "mainstreamed", or are they being made synonymous with the American right, much like Bat Buchanan.

17 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:32:33am

re: #6 Occasional Reader

we she was a "militia" shill

[sigh]

Sorry, chemtrails are affecting my typing.

18 FrogMarch  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:32:36am

Alex Jones is sort of like Michael Moore, except that Michael Moore is exclusively left-wing. Alex Jones is an equal opportunity left/right paranoid schizophrenic.

How any conservative can applaud such a fraud; such a dangerous lunatic and 9/11 troofer, is just total blind political opportunism.

19 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:32:39am

re: #15 lawhawk

We've had enough flyovers for one day, thank you very much OR.

Good move by DoD on that one...

20 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:32:46am

Alex Jones is a dangerous creep and a scammer.
People that listen to him are simpletons.

21 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:33:01am

Some people appear sane while espousing crazy beliefs. Alex Jones looks like a nut all the time.

22 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:33:09am

WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE! Glad I started drinking beer at 11 AM. EST.
PS. We are all gonna die, so I don't need a sarc tag.

23 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:33:19am

IMHO here you see how with only two main parties, each becomes progressively more crazy, one left crazy and one right crazy.

Time for a center party, one which somehow would not be attractive to the nut cases.

I suppose you would have to actively kick them out after a while, like Stinky does here.

24 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:33:24am

re: #15 lawhawk

We've had enough flyovers for one day, thank you very much OR.

NYC has now been dusted with certified DHS swine flu chemtrails. Excsssellent.

25 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:33:33am

re: #10 ConservatismNow!

You forgot Babs Boxer and whatserface from Georgia.

And Maxine Waters

26 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:34:29am

re: #23 Ojoe

Time for a center party, one which somehow would not be attractive to the nut cases.

The Non-Crazy Party. Our logo will be an owl (denotes wisdom and temperance).

27 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:34:42am

re: #25 midwestgak

And Maxine Waters

I think it'd be easier to single out the non-crazy ones.

28 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:35:24am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

I am trying not to say Wh**

LOL

There goes my reputation

29 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:35:49am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

The Non-Crazy Party. Our logo will be an owl (denotes wisdom and temperance).

And being totally forgetful with names.
Barack Obama. Who?
George Bush. Who?

Yeah, it's corny, but it's all I got.

30 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:36:23am
31 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:36:32am

re: #29 ConservatismNow!

And being totally forgetful with names.
Barack Obama. Who?
George Bush. Who?

Yeah, it's corny, but it's all I got.

Our party will like an owl exploding inside your brain.

32 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:36:50am

re: #23 Ojoe

IMHO here you see how with only two main parties, each becomes progressively more crazy, one left crazy and one right crazy.

Time for a center party, one which somehow would not be attractive to the nut cases.

I suppose you would have to actively kick them out after a while, like Stinky does here.

* * * *
Oh, you seriously think "Centrists" can't be crazy? What makes so-called centrists immune to having bad ideas?

Sorry, no group is immune. And if centrists think centrist GroupThink is an improvement, check out countries with centrist coalitions whose governments collapse regularly with the seasons.

33 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:37:09am

re: #29 ConservatismNow!

Excellent!

Bill Clinton WHO?

34 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:37:43am

I think in honor of Stephen King's The Stand, and the Mexican provenance of this swine flu strain, it should be dubbed Capitán Viajes.

35 Pete-billy  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:38:19am

Hi all :-))

36 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:38:25am

re: #32 alegrias

countries with centrist coalitions whose governments collapse regularly with the seasons.

That would be Italy, wouldn't it?

But nobody can govern an Italian.

37 Cato the Elder  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:38:37am

re: #14 alegrias

Sorry Charles, I've missed any scuttlebut against Rep. Michelle Bachman who I believe is an elected Minnesota congressional representative and former tax lawyer who seems well-spoken the times I've heard her speak on various issues. What's happened that I've missed? Anyone? Can she be as bad news for Minnesota or America, as Al Franken tipping the Senate majority?

"We're about to be put under martial law" is one of her memes. She's nuts.

38 coquimbojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:38:47am

We need to be careful with those who we pick for fellow travellers. Don't forget Pat Buchanan.....

39 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:38:50am

re: #29 ConservatismNow!

And being totally forgetful with names.
Barack Obama. Who?
George Bush. Who?

Yeah, it's corny, but it's all I got.

Or we could have Walter Newton's Maisey the Parrot as our mascot. We'll constantly ask "What?".

40 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:38:56am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

The Non-Crazy Party. Our logo will be an owl (denotes wisdom and temperance).

* * **
Why not go with Ben Franklin's choice, the Turkey, which has something for everyone, plus feel-good tryptophan, so everyone feels satisfied?////

41 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:03am
42 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:06am

BBL

43 Spider Mensch  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:36am

as far as the idiot parade on fnc lately...just don't watch it. get your news off the web where you can pick and choose. imho there isn't one tv news show that isn't agenda driven. they all suck. remember the Simpson's episode were all the advertisments come to life and start to destroy Springfield?..."Just don't look, just don't look..." and they will go away..maybe :)

44 Syrah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:38am

This is one of the dangers of living in the instant media age.

The parties are controlled as much if not more by the talking head crazies as they are by anyone actually involved in the day to day operations of the party itself.

The Republicans are as much at risk from the influence of its fringe crazies now as the Dems are from the kooks at huffpo and kos.

No party, left, right or center can escape this dynamic.

There is no middle, just contested territory.

45 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:51am

re: #41 midwestgak

Jocelyn Elders - the file name and name tag give it away.

46 damnyanqui  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:53am

Okay, this is just too unintentionally funny not to share.
Seems the New York Times finds the Communist News Network (also lovingly known as the Clinton News Network) is just soooo fair and balanced it can't compete with the evil right wing extremists of Fox News, or the moonbats of MSNBC who are even more out in left field than CNN.
I think MSNBC deserves some credit. Fox News had an easy job being less liberal than CNN. But it takes some serious doing to outflank CNN from the left!

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

47 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:53am

re: #41 midwestgak

Jocelyn Elders

48 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:39:57am

re: #38 coquimbojoe

We need to be careful with those who we pick for fellow travellers. Don't forget Pat Buchanan.....

And, of course, the irony in all this is that Pat Buchanan's name on the 2000 buterfly ballot in Florida, essentially helped George W. Bush win the Presidency.

49 coquimbojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:04am

re: #41 midwestgak

Upding to the first lizard who names this moonbat

Jocelyn 'Handjob' Elders

50 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:06am

re: #14 alegrias

What's happened that I've missed?

She made a public statement a month or two back that Americans should be ready to rise up in arms, or something to that effect. Later claimed her words were taken out of context.

51 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:06am

re: #40 alegrias

* * **
Why not go with Ben Franklin's choice, the Turkey, which has something for everyone, plus feel-good tryptophan, so everyone feels satisfied?////

Better sense of smell than a coon dog, sharper eye than an eagle, harder to kill than a grizzly bear, and tastier than a chicken.

52 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:13am

re: #39 Occasional Reader

Or we could have Walter Newton's Maisey the Parrot as our mascot. We'll constantly ask "What?".

I accept (Maisey the Parrot). Send money. Lots of it. NOW.

53 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:13am

re: #1 HelloDare

I could use a little Good Craziness right now.

I'm crazy for feeeeling so lonely
Crazy for tryin and crazy for cryin
over you.....

Patsy

54 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:35am

re: #45 lawhawk

Jocelyn Elders - the file name and name tag give it away.

Darn. Would you have known otherwise?

55 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:38am
56 brookly red  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:46am

re: #41 midwestgak

Upding to the first lizard who names this moonbat

re: #47 rawmuse

Jocelyn Elders


the name tag was a good hint :)

57 coquimbojoe  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:50am

re: #48 tfc3rid

And, of course, the irony in all this is that Pat Buchanan's name on the 2000 buterfly ballot in Florida, essentially helped George W. Bush win the Presidency.

I take it considering the alternative.

58 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:40:54am

#41 ELDERS!

59 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:41:10am

re: #37 Cato the Elder

"We're about to be put under martial law" is one of her memes. She's nuts.

* * * *
"Brother, don't think we're not keeping score" , Pres. Obama's meme, makes you feel better?

60 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:41:18am

re: #56 brookly red

the name tag was a good hint :)

This morning, I'll take all the help I can get.

61 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:41:30am

re: #54 midwestgak

I sure have, but that goes hand in hand with being a political junkie.

62 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:41:31am

re: #40 alegrias

* * **
Why not go with Ben Franklin's choice, the Turkey, which has something for everyone, plus feel-good tryptophan, so everyone feels satisfied?////

Or... how about the Peregrine Falcon? A swift raptor of the wild, which can also comfortably make its home in skyscrapers. Good, unifying symbolism there.

63 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:41:45am

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

I accept (Maisey the Parrot). Send money. Lots of it. NOW.

What?

64 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:41:47am

re: #49 coquimbojoe


you beat me to it.
must have been the evilyn woods reading course you took

65 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:41:48am

re: #41 midwestgak

Upding to the first lizard who names this moonbat

Dyke Debbie - I saw her in a magazine once... never mind...

66 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:42:07am

re: #41 midwestgak

Upding to the first lizard who names this moonbat

Um....she's wearing a name badge......just sayin'

67 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:43:09am

Shhhhh....

68 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:43:12am

re: #50 Occasional Reader

She made a public statement a month or two back that Americans should be ready to rise up in arms, or something to that effect. Later claimed her words were taken out of context.

They weren't taken out of context at all - that's what she said. She's also an evolution denier (of course), thinks CO2 is a "harmless gas," and has ranted about Obama's plans for "re-education camps."

Completely cuckoo.

69 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:43:15am

re: #23 Ojoe

The problem is, kookism is not owned by any one side, be it right or left. Evidence of this is Alex Jones himself. He seems to move easily amongst the kooks of the right (Ron Paul) and the kooks of the left (Loose Change) just as easily.

70 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:43:27am

re: #61 lawhawk

I sure have, but that goes hand in hand with being a political junkie.

um. Speaking of hands, didn't she promote the "M" word?

71 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:43:43am

re: #44 Syrah

This is one of the dangers of living in the instant media age.

The parties are controlled as much if not more by the talking head crazies as they are by anyone actually involved in the day to day operations of the party itself.

The Republicans are as much at risk from the influence of its fringe crazies now as the Dems are from the kooks at huffpo and kos.

No party, left, right or center can escape this dynamic.

There is no middle, just contested territory.

* * * * *
Thank you. MoveOn.org is now respectably ensconced at the Dem table and wallet and that's cool? I don't think so!

72 Daria Emmons  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:43:50am

Who is Michele Bachmann?

Anyway, this has been a problem for years; Pat Buchanan has been considered 'mainstream' for decades, and even appears in the McLaughlin Group.

I do not believe nuts and crazies are particularly endemic to the 'right.' You see plenty of wackos on the 'left.'

Anyway, when you go far enough right, you swing back around left again. (Hitler was part of the National Socialist party)

73 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:43:53am

re: #62 Occasional Reader

Or... how about the Peregrine Falcon? A swift raptor of the wild, which can also comfortably make its home in skyscrapers. Good, unifying symbolism there.

I like it. I think if the vote for a national symbol were held today, the eagle would be considered too warlike and unilateral (being a lone eagle, of course). The turkey would win, unless they put the ostrich on the ballot.

74 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:44:10am

re: #51 ConservatismNow!

Better sense of smell than a coon dog, sharper eye than an eagle, harder to kill than a grizzly bear, and tastier than a chicken.


just try sticking a grizzly bear's neck in between two nails and pulling his body taut. It'll leave a mark.

75 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:44:16am

re: #68 Charles

thinks CO2 is a "harmless gas,"

Well... I'm perhaps a bit more with her on that one. But it doesn't excused the other stuff.

76 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:44:30am

The Teleprompter strikes again.

TOTUS outwits POTUS.

77 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:44:38am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

The Non-Crazy Party. Our logo will be an owl (denotes wisdom and temperance).


.... and WITCHES and HARRY POTTER!

Your "Centrist Party" is run by Wiccans and sorcerers! The American people will never support such evil.
///

78 Cato the Elder  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:44:39am

From the last thread:

re: #359 freetoken

Fresh on Youtube (like, just within the last hour), Alex Jones' latest take on vaccines (full of bio-warfare stuff, he claims), the flu, etc:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

So the question is, the next time Jones is on Fox with the "Judge", will anyone dare to confront him with this stuff?

The gummint is purposely giving us cancer. When the purple yogurt starts coming out of your nose, you'll be sorry you listened to your doctor.

79 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:45:04am

re: #75 Occasional Reader

Well... I'm perhaps a bit more with her on that one. But it doesn't excused the other stuff.

Well, you can disagree with AGW, but claiming CO2 is "harmless" is ridiculous.

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:45:08am

Is a hand job considered sex? Is DIY the same?

81 theuglydougling  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:45:17am

I despise Alex Jones with a passion.

82 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:45:36am

re: #53 Eowyn2

I'm crazy for feeeeling so lonely
Crazy for tryin and crazy for cryin
over you.....

Patsy

Here it is folks:

83 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:45:49am

re: #41 midwestgak

Upding to the first lizard who names this moonbat

Joycelyn Elders (sp?)

84 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:46:13am

Here is Alex Jones on Swine Flu. This certainly qualifies as Bad Craziness.

85 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:46:23am

re: #79 Charles

Well, you can disagree with AGW, but claiming CO2 is "harmless" is ridiculous.

O2 is also considered toxic, in pure form.

86 Cato the Elder  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:46:26am

re: #75 Occasional Reader

Well... I'm perhaps a bit more with her on that one. But it doesn't excused the other stuff.

Defining it as a "pollutant" means each and every pair of lungs on the planet is an emitter of pollution. There should be cap and trade to weed out the excessive breathers.

87 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:46:46am

re: #51 ConservatismNow!

Better sense of smell than a coon dog, sharper eye than an eagle, harder to kill than a grizzly bear, and tastier than a chicken.

I'm a little skeptical about the bolded part.

Anyway, the trouble is, turkeys are mean and stupid. Plus, we'd be derided as jive turkeys (since the 70s are apparently back). So I still like the Peregrine Falcon idea. (Plus the "peregrine" part takes in the centrist religious folks!)

88 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:46:47am

re: #27 ConservatismNow!

I think it'd be easier to single out the non-crazy ones.

I don't know about that. I can't think of one.

89 Daria Emmons  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:46:51am

re: #81 theuglydougling

I despise Alex Jones with a passion.

He is an antisemitic conspiracy theory loon, widely debunked in "Screw Loose Change." I just do not get why and how anyone - be it Fox News or even MSNBC can take that clown seriously. He does not even have the fake academic "seriousness" of Pat Buchanan.

90 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:47:03am

re: #68 Charles

"...CO2 is a "harmless gas,"

CO2 is a gas. Toxicity is in the dose. At its current levels in the atmosphere, the role it plays on global climate is uncertain. Its level has fluctuated over the history of the planet, but there's no reason to treat it as a pollutant as the EPA and courts have done.

Heck, by that measure, you can argue that oxygen is a pollutant because at certain levels, it's fatal (just ask divers). Ditto for nitrogen, helium, and any other gas or substance.

91 aggieann  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:47:04am
92 mjwsatx  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:47:11am

Michele Bachmann? I've heard her many times on the Bennett show and she sounds knowledgeable and reasonable to me. Could you please explain?

Mike /////////\////////

93 Thom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:47:11am

4 taxfreekiller

Indeed.

While democracks with actual power are destroying this country, anti-idiotarians are fuming about a few entertainers?

I'm sorry but I just don't get it.

94 Lobosan5  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:47:39am
and kooks like Glenn Beck


I'm sorry....i don't think G.B. is a kook.
DingDown...whatever....because there are, of course, no such things as conspiracies.....& atheists so rok!

95 theuglydougling  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:47:48am

re: #79 Charles

...but claiming CO2 is "harmless" is ridiculous.

Because of halitosis.

:P

96 Noam Chumpski  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:47:58am

I've done such a good job of staying away from Jones that I know very little about him and his conspiracy theatrics.

The interesting thing, however, is that the first two paragraphs of this article seem to infer that Jones is moving away from the fringe in order to become more mainstream.

If that's true - if he's moving away from the fringe (even if it's just for ratings and $) - then that's a win. I'd rather have him moderate himself and be a reasonable part of the group, than have him going nuts and hanging out on the fringe masquerading as a "Republican" and giving everyone a bad name.

Of course, I don't have cable so I have no way of knowing what he's yakking about on the Beck show versus what he was doing a year ago, so... he could still be just as nuts and everything I've written is just a fantasy.

97 Sabnen  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:48:02am

We are living in such interesting times.
Information availability is limitless.
Anybody can post anything, any opinion, anywhere.

Be careful of who you read and what you read.
It's not as easy as it used to be when responsible reporters, editors, publishers, producers looked out for the content and the message.

Since they are far and few between YOU are the responsible party now. You along with Charles.

98 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:48:05am

re: #48 tfc3rid

And, of course, the irony in all this is that Pat Buchanan's name on the 2000 buterfly ballot in Florida, essentially helped George W. Bush win the Presidency.

* * *
Egomaniacs willing to peel off single issue voters hurt everyone.

It's too bad so many go off the deep end at either end of the spectrum on single issues.

It would be better to agree on a few common issues than do the splintering thing.

99 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:48:24am

re: #92 mjwsatx

You must be confusing her with Bachman Turner Overdrive. /

100 Cato the Elder  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:48:31am

re: #59 alegrias

"Brother, don't think we're not keeping score" , Pres. Obama's meme, makes you feel better?

So is Irish Rose. Me so scared.

101 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:48:43am

re: #79 Charles

Well, you can disagree with AGW, but claiming CO2 is "harmless" is ridiculous.

CO2's effects as harmful or harmless have to do with concentrations. Now, if you're a plant rather than an animal, CO2 is not harmful, instead, it's what you want, and oxygen is the waste gas.

102 Syrah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:48:56am

re: #85 rawmuse

O2 is also considered toxic, in pure form.

In its liquid form, it can be a lot of fun too.

A little liquid o2 and some charcoal, or better yet, asphalt, and . . . .

Well, lets just say that it can be a moving experience.

103 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:49:13am

re: #79 Charles

but claiming CO2 is "harmless" is ridiculous

I think in the context of it being labeled a toxic gas (as the current hysteria would have it), not so much.

104 Gella  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:49:24am

and in another teleprompter news, not related to current topic
[Link: www.politico.com...]

105 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:49:24am

re: #96 Noam Chumpski

Alex Jones has never appeared on Glenn Beck on FNC... In fact, a few weeks ago, Beck on his radio showed called Alex Jones conspiracies crazy...

106 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:49:42am

re: #90 lawhawk

That's what I was thinking too LH, she might have been referring to that EPA regulation thing.

107 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:49:43am

re: #79 Charles

Well, you can disagree with AGW, but claiming CO2 is "harmless" is ridiculous.

Correct. Remember Apollo 13 and the filter they had to create to prevent CO2 poisoning.

108 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:49:47am

OK, do you think there can't be crazy people in the center?
Remember Ross Perot?

The genius who gave us 8 years of Clinton.

109 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:50:10am
110 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:50:51am

re: #101 Honorary Yooper

Now, if you're a plant rather than an animal

Charles is a reptilian, not a plant. Sheesh, get it right.

111 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:51:00am

re: #107 midwestgak

Correct. Remember Apollo 13 and the filter they had to create to prevent CO2 poisoning.

They needed to take some ferns up with them...

112 nyc redneck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:51:46am

re: #18 FrogMarch

Alex Jones is sort of like Michael Moore, except that Michael Moore is exclusively left-wing. Alex Jones is an equal opportunity left/right paranoid schizophrenic.

how disingenuous. nothing worst than an opportunistic kook.

113 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:51:51am

re: #85 rawmuse

O2 is also considered toxic, in pure form.

Oh geeze, yes. It's also the first "pollutant" put out by living entities on this planet. Damn those stromatolite algae for polluting the air with oxygen 3 billion years ago.

114 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:51:58am

re: #107 midwestgak

Correct. Remember Apollo 13 and the filter they had to create to prevent CO2 poisoning.

Look... of course if you're put in a room full of C02 (and nothing else), you'll die. Same is true of nitrogen. Same is true of oxygen, for that matter.

115 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:52:52am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

The Non-Crazy Party. Our logo will be an owl (denotes wisdom and temperance).

That'll drive the Jones and Icke crowds nuts. You've never heard of Bohemian Grove and its mascot?

116 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:53:11am

Oklahoma Twitter user arrested after death threat tweets


Not that there’s ever a good time to unleash death threats across trendy Web communities but, given its recent surge of popularity and market growth, using online micro-blogging service Twitter to announce upcoming personal bloodbaths probably isn’t a particularly good idea.

More specifically, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has moved quickly to collar a 52-year-old man in Oklahoma who used Twitter’s expanding community to announce his plans to unleash an attack during an organised ‘Tea Party’ tax protest.

“Locked AND loaded for the Oklahoma State Capitol,” wrote Twitter user CitizenQuasar (identified as Daniel Knight Hayden) in his penultimate blog message, or ‘tweet’, which was posted on April 15. “Let’s see what happens.”

With authorities swiftly alerted to the potential threat, the FBI duly arrested Knight Hayden later on the same day, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Oklahoma City.

Other inflammatory and threatening tweets posted by Knight Hayden between April 11 and April 15 included:

“Of course they will kill me BUT life is no longer worth living. NOT in Oklahoma!”

“After I am killed on the Capitol Steps, like a REAL man, the rest of you will REMEMBER ME!”

“I really don’t give a shit anymore. Send the cops around. I will cut their heads off… and throw them on the State Capitol steps.”

Wired reports that Knight Hayden’s personal page on social networking site MySpace is, “a breathtaking gallery of right-wing memes about the “New World Order,” gun control as Nazi fascism, and Barack Obama’s covert use of television hypnosis.”

Following his arrest on April 15, Knight Hayden was arraigned on April 16 before being released to a halfway house pending trial on federal charges of making interstate threats.

117 theuglydougling  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:53:30am

re: #96 Noam Chumpski

Jones is in no way moving away from the fringe. The fringe is where he makes his money. For him it's all about exploiting his and others' hatred and paranoia of this country.

118 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:53:45am

re: #50 Occasional Reader

She made a public statement a month or two back that Americans should be ready to rise up in arms, or something to that effect. Later claimed her words were taken out of context.

* * * * *
Figuratively or literally? To protest the bailout or taxes most likely.

Meanwhile Rosa Brooks the incendiary LA TImes journalist said on the record, in print, that Bush administration officials should all be frog-marched or jailed, and she's rewarded with a top job in the Pentagon, undermining our defense department, where the ARMS are.

Uggghhh. I don't know what to think about this.

119 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:53:45am
120 Noam Chumpski  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:53:47am

re: #105 tfc3rid

Alex Jones has never appeared on Glenn Beck on FNC... In fact, a few weeks ago, Beck on his radio showed called Alex Jones conspiracies crazy...

That's cool. I was just typing and wrote in Beck.

121 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:53:49am

re: #109 WriterMom

BWAHHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAA!

I saw that earlier. Good for them. One thing that concerned me:

the private Israeli security forces aboard the MSC Cruises ocean liner fired on the pirates with pistols and water hoses

Pistols? Wrong equipment. Yes, it worked, but... if you're going to have an armed security force on a ship, let them bring along the right equipment. Scoped rifles at a minimum.

122 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:54:02am

I just spent ten or fifteen minutes over at Alex Jones' InfoWars website, just to make sure that the whole joint is still bat-shit crazy. I was not disappointed. It's a veritable cornucopia of mildly disordered thought and links to other crazy websites.

The current headlines are mostly about swine flu. Here's basically how they're playing it:

1. The new swine flu was probably genetically engineered as a biological weapon. Here's a little quote for you:

“Our best intelligence estimate is that pandemic Avian Flu has already been created through genetic engineering in the United States, fusing the deadly genome of the 1918 Pandemic, misnamed the ‘Spanish Flu’, with the DNA of the innocuous H5N1 virus in a growth medium of human kidney cells, according to the National Institutes of Health and the vaccine’s manufacturer. Some virologists believe that this would insure that the man-made mutant virus recognizes human cells and knows how to invade them,” writes Rima E. Laibow, MD, head of the Natural Solutions Foundation, a citizen watchdog group monitoring the pharmaceutical industry.

2. The government is going to force everyone to get vaccinated, because that benefits Big Pharma. And of course, vaccines are bad and harmful. So, the kooks say, don't accept the vaccine. Instead, get plenty of sleep, and drink a lot of alkalinized water. They'll be happy to provide you with links to companies that sell water alkalinizers.

3. The government is probably going to impose martial law (at least they didn't spell it "Marshall Law" like these people usually do) and put everyone in big internment camps that FEMA has been secretly building.

123 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:54:23am

re: #77 eschew_obfuscation

I always liked Archamides from Sword and the Stone.

124 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:54:24am

If you really want to get an idea of just how insane this man is, just watch the two Richard Linklater films "A Scanner Darkly" and "Waking Life", of which he spouts tirades which I'm pretty sure is just his insanity spewing.

125 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:54:27am

re: #109 WriterMom

BWAHHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAA!

I don't like that they are going after cruise ships now.

126 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:54:31am

re: #115 MandyManners

That'll drive the Jones and Icke crowds nuts. You've never heard of Bohemian Grove and its mascot?

Ah, damn... forgot about that. Well, driving the Jones/Icke crowd (more) nuts might be a good thing, but I'm liking the Pergerine Falcon more and more.

127 SteveC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:54:43am

Here's a little tune from that mega-hit band Dose of Soap (You never heard of Dose of Soap? Where have you been?) about keeping germs - and BREAKING NEWS: WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! graphic packages - at bay!

128 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:54:50am

Here's a video of Bachmann's ignorant, silly comments about CO2:

These are the kind of people who give climate change skeptics a bad name.

129 Spartacus50  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:55:00am

Why is it that John McCain and Ron Paul are the only two members of the Republican "opposition" allowed on talk shows?

130 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:55:02am

re: #114 Occasional Reader

Look... of course if you're put in a room full of C02 (and nothing else), you'll die. Same is true of nitrogen. Same is true of oxygen, for that matter.

Moderation in everything.

131 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:55:11am

re: #116 NJDhockeyfan

Oklahoma Twitter user arrested after death threat tweets

Released to a halfway house?!

132 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:55:28am

The mainstreaming of Alex Jones= the fringing of the conservatives.

133 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:55:33am

re: #121 Occasional Reader

Hmm..didn't think about that-but obviously, they should be equipped with whatever it would take to get the job done. I just like the idea of JOOOOOOOOOS taking down the Islamic pirates. Makes me feel tingly!

134 Noam Chumpski  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:55:40am

re: #117 theuglydougling

Jones is in no way moving away from the fringe. The fringe is where he makes his money. For him it's all about exploiting his and others' hatred and paranoia of this country.

Yeah. That's what I figured. But when I read those first two paragraphs it got me wondering... kinda hoping.

135 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:56:00am

re: #125 Russkilitlover

What's stopping them?

136 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:56:16am

While researching turkey facts, I came across this little gem of a anti-Thanksgiving pdf.

137 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:56:32am

re: #122 Last Mohican

They'll be happy to provide you with links to companies that sell water alkalinizers.

I wonder how much money Jones and his cohorts have invested in these companies.

138 SteveC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:56:44am

re: #107 midwestgak

Correct. Remember Apollo 13 and the filter they had to create to prevent CO2 poisoning.

"We gotta take this and make it fit into a hole designed to hold this, using nothing but the items on this table."

139 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:56:59am

re: #114 Occasional Reader

Look... of course if you're put in a room full of C02 (and nothing else), you'll die. Same is true of nitrogen. Same is true of oxygen, for that matter.

Idealy, for human life, oxygen levels should be above 19.5%. Currently, the average amount of oxygen in the atmosphere is 21%. Oxygen seems to have no upper safe limit, but at high concentrations, it can start to burn everything around it very easily, including one's lungs.

140 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:57:02am

Bob Beckel and Dick Morris are twins. Am I wrong?

141 cheesehead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:57:47am

re: #7 cheesehead

No different then the Left when they "mainstreamed" the likes of Dennis Kucinich and Barack Obama. Oh wait...we know how that turned out. Ouch!

Thanks for the negs. I was pointing out that when the Left mainstreamed a flaming lib like Obama, we got stuck with him as President. And, to demonstrate the danger in legitimizing a nut-case like Alex.

142 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:58:19am

re: #121 Occasional Reader

Pistols? Wrong equipment. Yes, it worked, but... if you're going to have an armed security force on a ship, let them bring along the right equipment. Scoped rifles at a minimum.

While I do agree with you, the point is that if you hit what you aim at, you're well up on people who seem to view their weapons as fashion accessories.

Not that there's anything wrong with having a pretty gun, if you're a girl.

143 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:58:21am

re: #126 Occasional Reader

Ah, damn... forgot about that. Well, driving the Jones/Icke crowd (more) nuts might be a good thing, but I'm liking the Pergerine Falcon more and more.

Those critters are FAST.

144 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:59:02am

re: #129 Spartacus50

Why is it that John McCain and Ron Paul are the only two members of the Republican "opposition" allowed on talk shows?

Maybe because that's what the DNC and the MFM want.

145 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:59:06am

re: #125 Russkilitlover

I don't like that they are going after cruise ships now.

That's not new. It's happened a couple times.

146 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:59:23am

re: #135 WriterMom

What's stopping them?

It seems like they were going after cargo (merchandise) primarily. To go after a cruise ship means hostage situations that aren't fun to contemplate.

147 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:59:50am

re: #128 Charles

Leave carbon dioxide alone!

Carbon dioxide is just a human.

148 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 8:59:54am

re: #138 SteveC

"We gotta take this and make it fit into a hole designed to hold this, using nothing but the items on this table."

It's remarkable, and a testament to the ingenuity of American engineers that they were able to make a square filter fit a round hole. Folks like them make me have a lot of hope for the future.

149 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:00:04am

re: #131 MandyManners

Remember, we had a thread about that last Thursday? We were all pretty shocked that someone that bats could be released at all!

150 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:00:25am

re: #96 Noam Chumpski

the first two paragraphs of this article seem to infer that Jones is moving away from the fringe in order to become more mainstream.

If that's true - if he's moving away from the fringe (even if it's just for ratings and $) - then that's a win.

No, see my #122 (or look directly at Jones' site). He's still parked about two rows past "fringe," over in the "maybe needs inpatient treatment, maybe not" section.

In my opinion, if he's trying to get a foot in the door by bashing Democrats in order to sell himself to a mainstream conservative audience, that's a very bad thing. He's bound to attract some support among people who don't realize he's nuts, and he'll provide ample ammunition for people who want to paint the entire right half of the political spectrum as crazy "wingnuts."

151 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:00:30am

re: #128 Charles

Her comments are, indeed, ignorant and silly, but on this particular point, I think she's on the correct side (opposing the absurd "carbon tax"). And classifying CO2 as a "pollutant", in the same way that genuinely toxic substances are, is absurd.

152 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:00:52am

re: #145 Dianna

That's not new. It's happened a couple times.

Achille Lauro for one.

153 Syrah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:01:13am
154 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:01:13am

re: #149 Dianna

Remember, we had a thread about that last Thursday? We were all pretty shocked that someone that bats could be released at all!

I'm drawing a blank. (Of course, that was a day of utter hell for my sinuses and the little pill that knocked me out.)

155 SteveC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:01:20am

re: #148 Honorary Yooper

It's remarkable, and a testament to the ingenuity of American engineers that they were able to make a square filter fit a round hole. Folks like them make me have a lot of hope for the future.

"You, sir, are a steely eyed Missileman!"

156 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:01:52am

With all the talk about passwords the other day, I almost screwed up my password here.

157 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:02:09am

re: #143 MandyManners

Those critters are FAST.

I've seen them take pigeons in Manhattan. ZOUNDS! It's like a bolt from the blue.

158 Spartacus50  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:02:19am

re: #48 tfc3rid

And, of course, the irony in all this is that Pat Buchanan's name on the 2000 buterfly ballot in Florida, essentially helped George W. Bush win the Presidency.

Was this ever proven? I seem to recall the butterfly ballot issue being a complete fabrication created by the Democratic Party in the hopes of somehow getting a re-vote.

159 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:02:33am

re: #153 Syrah

The Hello Kitty AR-1.

Well my daughter is graduating from College?

160 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:02:35am

re: #156 Nevergiveup

With all the talk about passwords the other day, I almost screwed up my password here.

What is your password?///

161 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:02:37am

Morning Honcos.

Alex Jones is bat shit crazy.

Any leftover gamy troll buttocks from last nights open reg?

162 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:02:54am

re: #150 Last Mohican

He's still parked about two rows past "fringe," over in the "maybe needs inpatient treatment, maybe not" section.

Are you familiar with David Icke? Now, that man is full-on nuts.

163 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:03:17am

There is a common denominator among the crazies on the Left and the crazies on the Right.

For me it is demonstrated by the fact that two shining examples -who should logically be polar opposites- Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich- both frequently make an identical show.

Both carry a small copy of the US Constitution which they whip out to illustrate their thinking. Both insist that their views- and only their views- are totally consistent with that document. Everyone else - and that includes the Supreme Court- is wrong.

164 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:03:27am

re: #108 Son of the Black Dog

OK, do you think there can't be crazy people in the center?
Remember Ross Perot?

The genius who gave us 8 years of Clinton.

* * * * *
19% of voters were swayed in part because Pres. Bush I wasn't sufficiently passionate, engaged, effective at communicating he was concerned about the economy, the budget, greedy lobbyists in Congress, etc.

Ross Perot exploited Pres. Bush's seeming lackadaisickalness, and the Bill/Al team effectively tried to look very energetic and concerned about the ECONOMY, STUPID!

You can't expect to keep the top job if you look disinterested or tired. Too bad that happened on Pres. Bush I's first watch.

165 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:04:05am

re: #160 midwestgak

What is your password?///

My best friends in Israel oldest daughters husband and what i think is El Al's most comfortable plane. Go for it.

166 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:04:09am

re: #162 MandyManners

Are you familiar with David Icke? Now, that man is full-on nuts.

Also, he knows too much about the terrible secret of LFG.

167 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:04:18am

re: #157 Occasional Reader

I've seen them take pigeons in Manhattan. ZOUNDS! It's like a bolt from the blue.

Poor pigeons.

168 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:04:57am

Earth's Atmosphere

Nitrogen (N2) 78.084%
Oxygen (O2) 20.946%
Argon (Ar) 0.9340%
Carbon dioxide (CO2) 0.0383%
Neon (Ne) 0.001818%
Helium (He) 0.000524%
Methane (CH4) 0.0001745%
Krypton (Kr) 0.000114%
Hydrogen (H2) 0.000055%
Nitrous oxide (N2O) 0.00003%
Xenon (Xe) 9x10-6%
Ozone (O3) 0%-7x10-6%
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) 2x10-6%
Iodine (I) 1x10-6%)

Not included in above dry atmosphere:
Water vapor (H2O) ~0.40% over full atmosphere, typically 1%-4% at surface

169 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:05:16am

re: #165 Nevergiveup

My best friends in Israel oldest daughters husband and what i think is El Al's most comfortable plane. Go for it.

AVI777

Ha!

170 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:05:36am

re: #166 Occasional Reader

Also, he knows too much about the terrible secret of LFG.

I cannot recall if I stumbled onto him through Jones' site or vice versa.

171 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:06:02am

re: #128 Charles

Here's a video of Bachmann's ignorant, silly comments about CO2:

[Video]

Well that was impressively stupid.

I did enjoy the part about "the fowl that flies through the air."

172 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:06:28am

re: #129 Spartacus50

Why is it that John McCain and Ron Paul are the only two members of the Republican "opposition" allowed on talk shows?

* * * *
That's not factually correct.

You need to watch MORE tv!

I see all kinds of people interviewed.

173 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:06:38am

re: #169 Occasional Reader

AVI777

Ha!

No more hints

174 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:06:40am

re: #131 MandyManners

Released to a halfway house?!

Here is his myspace page. What a kook.

After a quick look:

Citizen Quasar 's Latest Blog Entry

Alex Jones Interviewed by Russia Today: "U.S. is a puppet of private bankers ."

Subject: This is NO joke....

Suppression of the Meg by Tom Bearden

Hoagland on The Monuments of Mars

Survival Books & Free Downloads

On the fiends list: Dennis Kucinich, Dylan Avery and Alex Jones

175 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:06:48am

Who is winning today, stupid or evil?

176 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:07:01am

re: #167 MandyManners

Poor pigeons.

Peregrine falcons are a natural part of the natural world in a natural cycle of naturalness... just like CO2!

177 SteveC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:07:36am

Newspaper circulation dropping.

Falling like a guy with no parachute! Watch that sudden stop!

178 Syrah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:07:44am

re: #175 rawmuse

Who is winning today, stupid or evil?

Yes.

179 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:08:23am

That was Air Force One flying down the Hudson today?

180 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:08:27am

If we upped the amount of Nitrous Oxide in the atmosphere, we'd all be a lot happier. Hell, it's only 0.00003%

181 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:08:30am

re: #140 midwestgak

Bob Beckel and Dick Morris are twins. Am I wrong?

* * * *
Wrong.

Beckel's an apparatchik of the clueless Carter Mondale era gang that couldn't shoot straight.

Morris was consiglieri to the Master Democrat, Bill Clinton.

182 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:08:31am

re: #148 Honorary Yooper

It's remarkable, and a testament to the ingenuity of American engineers that they were able to make a square filter fit a round hole. Folks like them make me have a lot of hope for the future.

Yeah, but if the engineers at NASA had been really smart, they'd have spec'd the filters in the capsule and the lander to be cartridge compatible. NASA always had multiple redundant systems for everything else, like computers. Why not redundancy for the life support systems.

183 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:08:32am

re: #151 Occasional Reader

Her comments are, indeed, ignorant and silly, but on this particular point, I think she's on the correct side (opposing the absurd "carbon tax"). And classifying CO2 as a "pollutant", in the same way that genuinely toxic substances are, is absurd.

I don't disagree with that, and I'm not a fan of the carbon tax. But having people like Bachmann out there as representatives of the opposing view, ranting away and making numerous factual errors (and repeating them over and over), is incredibly damaging. She's the poster girl for the "anti-science GOP."

184 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:08:42am

re: #168 HelloDare

Krypton (Kr) 0.000114%

We'll never be able to keep General Zod at bay with that little.

185 cheesehead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:08:57am

re: #179 Nevergiveup

Air Force One's back-up.

186 SteveC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:09:08am

re: #175 rawmuse

Who is winning today, stupid or evil?

I'm voting for "Stupidly Evil" myself, anyone else?

187 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:09:11am

re: #168 HelloDare

And the water vapor is responsible for a much more significant greenhouse effect compared to CO2 ... just saying

188 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:09:36am

re: #176 Occasional Reader

Peregrine falcons are a natural part of the natural world in a natural cycle of naturalness... just like CO2!

Peregrines would dive a lot faster if they didn't have to plow through all that CO2.

189 Cato the Elder  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:09:38am

re: #168 HelloDare

Earth's Atmosphere

Nitrogen (N2) 78.084%
Oxygen (O2) 20.946%
Argon (Ar) 0.9340%
Carbon dioxide (CO2) 0.0383%
Neon (Ne) 0.001818%
Helium (He) 0.000524%
Methane (CH4) 0.0001745%
Krypton (Kr) 0.000114%
Hydrogen (H2) 0.000055%
Nitrous oxide (N2O) 0.00003%
Xenon (Xe) 9x10-6%
Ozone (O3) 0%-7x10-6%
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) 2x10-6%
Iodine (I) 1x10-6%)

Obviously the solution is to convert excess CO2 to laughing gas. Temperature stabilizes, people giggle at every stupid joke, laugh out loud at nutjobs, everybody wins!

190 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:09:39am

re: #181 alegrias

* * * *
Wrong.

Beckel's an apparatchik of the clueless Carter Mondale era gang that couldn't shoot straight.

Morris was consiglieri to the Master Democrat, Bill Clinton.

Same difference.

191 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:09:51am

re: #179 Nevergiveup

That was Air Force One flying down the Hudson today?

Chemtrails!

192 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:09:57am

re: #179 Nevergiveup

That was Air Force One flying down the Hudson today?

Well, since Obama wasn't on board, no. The plane - a VC-25 with SAM28000 or SAM29000 call sign did fly over NYC metro area on a planned flight. Only when POTUS is on board is it AF1

193 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:10:01am

re: #179 Nevergiveup

That was Air Force One flying down the Hudson today?

It might have been... Or one of it's clones.

194 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:10:08am

re: #187 turn

And the water vapor is responsible for a much more significant greenhouse effect compared to CO2 ... just saying

You exhale both.

STOP BREATHING!
SAVE THE PLANET!

///////////////////////

195 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:10:21am

re: #185 cheesehead

Air Force One's back-up.

Well without the President on Board it is not really Air Force One. It was some photo op to show it flying near the Statue of Liberty with an escort?

196 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:11:17am

Good morning, All.

Well in short the patients are in control of the asylum and there's a strange meat being served in the cafeteria. I would not have believed a year ago had someone told me Alex Jones would be making headway into consevative circles; real and so-called.

197 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:11:25am

re: #195 Nevergiveup

Well without the President on Board it is not really Air Force One. It was some photo op to show it flying near the Statue of Liberty with an escort?

And evacuating some lower Manhattan offices... And scaring the shit out of some folks...

198 cheesehead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:11:36am

re: #195 Nevergiveup

Pre-planned Defence Dept photo-op. Calling it Air Force One was my mistake.

199 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:11:38am

re: #194 jcm

You exhale both.

STOP BREATHING!
SAVE THE PLANET!

///////////////////////

turn had chili for dinner last night, we need to stop eating too.

200 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:11:47am

re: #162 MandyManners

Are you familiar with David Icke? Now, that man is full-on nuts.

* * * *
Do you mean Harold Ickes? He's considered Democrat royalty going back to FDR's admin, where his father or grandfather was part of the braintrust.

201 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:12:01am

re: #174 NJDhockeyfan

Alex Jones Interviewed by Russia Today: "U.S. is a puppet of private bankers ."

This is code for "Jews". I've read other examples of this from Jones.

202 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:12:06am

re: #192 lawhawk

Photos and video.

203 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:12:35am

re: #153 Syrah

The Hello Kitty AR-1.

Dwaaawwwww!

204 JohnnyReb  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:12:55am

re: #187 turn

And the water vapor is responsible for a much more significant greenhouse effect compared to CO2 ... just saying

If you follow sun spot cycles and the like, it appears that we may be in for another little ice age soon. The sun has gone "quite", the likes of which have not been seen for over 100 years.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

205 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:12:57am

re: #174 NJDhockeyfan

On the fiends list: Dennis Kucinich, Dylan Avery and Alex Jones

A typo that's more appropriate than the original.

206 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:13:14am

re: #113 Honorary Yooper

Oh geeze, yes. It's also the first "pollutant" put out by living entities on this planet. Damn those stromatolite algae for polluting the air with oxygen 3 billion years ago.

The real question: How old was Obama at the time?

207 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:13:15am

re: #199 turn

turn had chili for dinner last night, we need to stop eating too.

Heh.... that's methane! CO2 is emitted from the other end ;~)

208 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:13:21am

re: #198 cheesehead

Pre-planned Defence Dept photo-op. Calling it Air Force One was my mistake.

Actually I heard it designated that on FOX. But we all know without the President on Board it is not Air Force One. We all get the History Channel?

209 KenJen  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:13:24am

re: #197 tfc3rid

And evacuating some lower Manhattan offices... And scaring the shit out of some folks...

Can't they just use photoshop like everyone else?

210 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:13:38am

re: #200 alegrias

* * * *
Do you mean Harold Ickes? He's considered Democrat royalty going back to FDR's admin, where his father or grandfather was part of the braintrust.

No. David Icke, the Brit. Google him. Unfuckingbelievable.

Shape-shifting reptilian aliens.

211 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:13:47am

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Chemtrails!

It's the prefect delivery vehicle. Fly over low and slow, everyone looks up and goes Ohhhh! Look! Cool! and gets a good dose.

212 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:14:10am

re: #177 SteveC

Newspaper circulation dropping.

Falling like a guy with no parachute! Watch that sudden stop!

* * * *
Cynthia Tucker the odious editorialist of the Atlanta Constitution, is being demoted/transferred. Bwhahaha, I read it in today's online DC Examiner, Virginia edition.

213 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:15:26am

On the subject of being an extremest.

Not long ago, an American politician who would argue for the US supporting- much less funding - Hamas, would be denounced as an Israel hating, America hating, Jihad loving, extremist nut.

In the MSN today are reports that such support and funding may be Obama policy.

If FOX going extremist is bad, the White House being extremist is worse.

214 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:15:41am

re: #210 MandyManners

No. David Icke, the Brit. Google him. Unfuckingbelievable.

Shape-shifting reptilian aliens.

Works for me. What's the problem?/

215 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:11am

re: #183 Charles

I don't disagree with that, and I'm not a fan of the carbon tax. But having people like Bachmann out there as representatives of the opposing view, ranting away and making numerous factual errors (and repeating them over and over), is incredibly damaging. She's the poster girl for the "anti-science GOP."

I thought Bobby Jindal was the poster boy.

216 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:16am

re: #209 KenJen

Can't they just use photoshop like everyone else?

The Iranian Air Force One flyover of Manhattan... followed by a performance by the Iranian Air Force Thunderbirds!

217 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:33am

re: #209 KenJen

Can't they just use photoshop like everyone else?

That's a damned good point. Even leaving aside all the nervousness in Lower Manhattan, a copy of photoshop would have been a lot cheaper than all the fuel they burned to do this. And it would have produced a lot less CO2.

218 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:37am

re: #204 JohnnyReb

If you follow sun spot cycles and the like, it appears that we may be in for another little ice age soon. The sun has gone "quite", the likes of which have not been seen for over 100 years.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I would wager a cooling trend is more likely and the sun is by far the biggest driver of weather on earth. bbl

219 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:42am

re: #210 MandyManners

No. David Icke, the Brit. Google him. Unfuckingbelievable.

Shape-shifting reptilian aliens.

You're just cross with him because he's found the secret of Lizardia.

:-))0

Hi Mandy,
Hiya, Lizard Nation!

220 Render  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:43am

That Alex Jones.

INTOLERABLE,
R

221 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:44am

Good morning everyone. Here's an excellent article by an MIT scientist about the corruption of science in the name of environmentalism. Sometimes I think Al Gore is the Ron Paul of environmentalism.

Hope everyone has an excellent Monday.

222 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:55am

re: #202 lawhawk

Photos and video.

What stupid idiot(s) pull a stunt like that without pre-informing the city's residents? Morons, complete effing buffoons.

223 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:16:59am

re: #210 MandyManners

No. David Icke, the Brit. Google him. Unfuckingbelievable.

Shape-shifting reptilian aliens.

Why, he's one of my personal favorites. Actually, he's just crazy enough to be three or four of my favorites.

Love the fact that he and Jones have an on-going on again/off again love/hate thing going. It's beautiful in its own way; a perfect little snowflake of insanity, part of the larger avalanche of trooferism that plagues the modern soul.

224 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:17:17am

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

Works for me. What's the problem?/

See, he's against them; that's the problem.

225 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:17:41am

re: #222 Russkilitlover

What stupid idiot(s) pull a stunt like that without pre-informing the city's residents? Morons, complete effing buffoons.

Perhaps the FAA forgot about what happened in 2001...

226 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:17:41am

re: #218 turn

I would wager a cooling trend is more likely and the sun is by far the biggest driver of weather on earth. bbl

Come on it's 93 million miles away........

//

227 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:17:47am

A meeting of the "minds:" Michele Bachmann and Pamela Geller.

228 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:17:54am

re: #207 eschew_obfuscation

Heh.... that's methane! CO2 is emitted from the other end ;~)

did I add that I had a beer too, oh no please don't tell turn beer is bad

229 Thom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:18:18am

re: #213 Opinionated

If FOX going extremist is bad, the White House being extremist is worse.

Thank you! I thought I was in bizarro world reading the picayunes about whether CO2 was or was not toxic, when that far more significant point has gone unaddressed.

230 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:18:22am

re: #223 Guanxi88

Why, he's one of my personal favorites. Actually, he's just crazy enough to be three or four of my favorites.

Love the fact that he and Jones have an on-going on again/off again love/hate thing going. It's beautiful in its own way; a perfect little snowflake of insanity, part of the larger avalanche of trooferism that plagues the modern soul.

Poetic, but it would have been easier to just say they are fucking nuts. Excuse me, I'm from Brooklyn, NY.

231 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:18:24am

re: #192 lawhawk

The plane - a VC-25 with SAM28000 or SAM29000 call sign

"SAM" = "Scattered Ammonia Methane". The numbers refer to the concentration in parts per million. They're preparing the atmosphere for the arrival of the alien Overlords. Duh.

232 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:19:06am

re: #212 alegrias

* * * *
Cynthia Tucker the odious editorialist of the Atlanta Constitution, is being demoted/transferred. Bwhahaha, I read it in today's online DC Examiner, Virginia edition.

Yeah, but she gets to keep writing her moonbat column. She's out there with the Cynthia McKinney crowd.

233 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:19:08am

re: #222 Russkilitlover

What stupid idiot(s) pull a stunt like that without pre-informing the city's residents? Morons, complete effing buffoons.

Maybe they didn't want to tip off any potential terrorists with shoulder-launched missiles who might be particularly attracted to a high-value target?

Oops, we don't use the "T" word anymore. Now they're probably called Persons of Diverse Beliefs and Intentions, or something like that.

234 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:19:25am

re: #227 Charles

A meeting of the "minds:" Michele Bachmann and Pamela Geller.

What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.

Dan Quayle

235 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:19:57am

re: #224 Guanxi88

See, he's against them; that's the problem.

I love the fact that his understanding of world history is in fact an adaptation from that cheesy NBC "V" mini-series from the 80's:

It's beautiful in its perfect fusion of suck, cheese, and crazy:

236 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:20:23am

re: #183 Charles

I don't disagree with that, and I'm not a fan of the carbon tax. But having people like Bachmann out there as representatives of the opposing view, ranting away and making numerous factual errors (and repeating them over and over), is incredibly damaging. She's the poster girl for the "anti-science GOP."

* * * *
Dear Charles,

It's possible she is like me against BAD science. I don't want elected lawyers to lecture me on science or make scientific decisions. I don't trust Democrats to necessarily make better "pro-science" decisions.

That goes for Democrat lawyers like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. who's such an energy hypocrite on wind turbines--Not In Their Kennedy Backyard Compounds.

The Kennedys go way back in backing radical science "progressives" as Joe Kennedy did when he allied himself with Germany instead of Britain, where he was our Ambassador before WWII and during.

237 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:20:31am

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

Poetic, but it would have been easier to just say they are fucking nuts. Excuse me, I'm from Brooklyn, NY.

WE know they're nuts; the challenge is to find new and ever-more inventive ways of conveying this knowledge.

238 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:20:47am

re: #227 Charles

A meeting of the "minds:" Michele Bachmann and Pamela Geller.

Well, while her outlet may be questionable, I don't take issue with anything that Rep. Bachman said in that quote...

239 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:21:01am

re: #231 Occasional Reader

"SAM" = "Scattered Ammonia Methane". The numbers refer to the concentration in parts per million. They're preparing the atmosphere for the arrival of the alien Overlords. Duh.

There we go with all that methane bullshit left over from those lame 1950's sci-fi movies. It's never been methane, it's mercury vapors.

Stupid earthling. Geeeesssshhhhh.

240 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:21:51am

re: #237 Guanxi88

WE know they're nuts; the challenge is to find new and ever-more inventive ways of conveying this knowledge.

Fucking uber-nuts.

(does that work better)

241 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:22:12am

re: #228 turn

did I add that I had a beer too, oh no please don't tell turn beer is bad

Beer is a double-whamey. CO2 from one end, CH4 from the other ;~(

242 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:22:15am

re: #187 turn

And the water vapor is responsible for a much more significant greenhouse effect compared to CO2 ... just saying

H2O is a feedback effect, not a forcing agent in climate change. If you add extra H20 to the atmosphere, it'll be dropped as precipitation, too little and the deficit will be replaced by evaporation.

Climate scientists - not as dumb as the anti-AGW talking points would have you believe.

243 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:23:01am

re: #240 Walter L. Newton

Fucking uber-nuts.

(does that work better)

We're getting there; I'm still partial to the whole "Charlton Heston coming out of his swoon and seeing a gorilla on horseback" meme to describe the sheer mind-bending insanity that we see all around us.

244 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:23:20am

re: #222 Russkilitlover

What stupid idiot(s) pull a stunt like that without pre-informing the city's residents? Morons, complete effing buffoons.

Unlike this guy.

245 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:23:47am

re: #236 alegrias

* * * *
Dear Charles,

It's possible she is like me against BAD science.

That assumes she's capable of telling the difference.

246 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:24:00am

re: #231 Occasional Reader

"SAM" = "Scattered Ammonia Methane". The numbers refer to the concentration in parts per million. They're preparing the atmosphere for the arrival of the alien Overlords. Duh.

Security Breach!
Security Breach!
Clean up team respond!
Our plan is in danger!

247 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:24:11am

re: #204 JohnnyReb

There are several cycles that appear to control the duration and timing of ice ages.

Milankovitch cycles

You have eccentricity, axial tilt, precession, and orbital inclination. There's also plate tectonics playing a role. In fact, the cycles continue in warm times and cold times, but the shape of the Earth's continents and oceans changes, making their effects more or less felt. It is suspected that the current set of ice ages started when the volcanic arc between North and South America cut off east-west ocean currents approximately 3 million years ago.

Then we get into the raising of the Himalayas and their effect on global wind currents, and the fact that Antarctica exists over the South Pole. In geologic history, there seems to be a correlation between major ice ages and a continent over one of the poles. Otherwise, the Earth has been fairly ice-free over the course of geologic time. We live in abnormal times.

248 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:24:43am

re: #190 midwestgak

Same difference.

* * * *
YOU are SO wrong.

Beckel's client President Carter got tossed after one lousy term.

Morris got President Clinton re-elected.

"Four More Years" Morris was much more effective than Beckel at their respective jobs.

249 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:25:00am

re: #109 WriterMom

That story made my morning! I always chuckle when two "experts" are quoted giving diametrically opposite opinions:

"There is a consensus in the shipping industry that, in the vast majority of cases, having an armed guard is not a good idea. The No. 1 reason is that it could cause an escalation of violence and pirates that have so far been trying to scare ships could now start to kill people," said Roger Middleton, an expert on Somali piracy at London-based think tank Chatham House.

Other experts disagree, saying piracy off the coast of modern-day Somalia is unique in that the pirates are most interested in human cargo. "Their business model, if you will, has been to not cross a line which would bring the whole weight of the world upon them. They want to seize hostages and ransom those hostages. So the likelihood that they would escalate violence is unlikely," said Africa expert Peter Pham, director of the Nelson Institute for International and Public Affairs at James Madison University.

Expert #1 says: Surrender to the pirates and hope they treat you well and that somebody eventually pays your ransomed so you can go free.

Expert #2 says: Shoot the fuckers and sail on.

250 KenJen  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:26:13am

re: #233 Last Mohican

Maybe they didn't want to tip off any potential terrorists with shoulder-launched missiles who might be particularly attracted to a high-value target?

Oops, we don't use the "T" word anymore. Now they're probably called Persons of Diverse Beliefs and Intentions, or something like that.

Kind of OT but I was listening to NPR this weekend. They were discussing the craigslist killer. Instead of referring to his victims as prostitutes they called them sex workers. I'd never heard that one before.

251 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:26:13am

re: #243 Guanxi88

We're getting there; I'm still partial to the whole "Charlton Heston coming out of his swoon and seeing a gorilla on horseback" meme to describe the sheer mind-bending insanity that we see all around us.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious NUTS. There!

252 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:26:15am

re: #196 Idle Drifter

Good morning, All.

Well in short the patients are in control of the asylum and there's a strange meat being served in the cafeteria. I would not have believed a year ago had someone told me Alex Jones would be making headway into consevative circles; real and so-called.

* * * *
"Patients are in control" and "making headway into conservative circles"
BOTH cannot be true.

253 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:26:23am

re: #211 jcm

It's the prefect delivery vehicle. Fly over low and slow, everyone looks up and goes Ohhhh! Look! Cool! and gets a good dose.

It's funny listening to the Chem Trail Kooks. I ask'em: Why would they pump the chemicals directly into turbine engine or the exhaust when doing so might alter the chemicals desired effects? And that the high altitude air currents would displace most of it over the continent reducing its effectiveness to nil.You could right a book with amount of nonsense they come up with.
On the other end of the spectrum ran into some idiot that claimed the government had listening satellites capable of hearing a conversation on the ground. I told him sound doesn't work very well in space. He simply replied, "They could it."

254 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:26:34am

I can't understand all this alarmism about so called "floodings" and "drownings". Come on people - water is an essential component of LIFE. It's time we stopped demonising it and recognised it for the gift that it is.//

255 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:26:46am

re: #234 Opinionated

What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.

Dan Quayle

Two of the biggest myths in Washington are that:
Dan Quayle is stupid. He isn't stupid, just has a problem with verbalization.
Al Gore is intelligent. He isn't, his intellect is a mile wide and an inch deep.

256 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:27:13am

re: #163 Opinionated

There is a common denominator among the crazies on the Left and the crazies on the Right.

For me it is demonstrated by the fact that two shining examples -who should logically be polar opposites- Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich- both frequently make an identical show.

Both carry a small copy of the US Constitution which they whip out to illustrate their thinking. Both insist that their views- and only their views- are totally consistent with that document. Everyone else - and that includes the Supreme Court- is wrong.

Replace "Constitution" with "Qur'an" and you have our enemies in a nutshell.

257 mjwsatx  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:27:16am

re: #128 Charles

Sorry, Charles. While I agree with your point of view most of the time, I see nothing silly or ignorant about Bachmann's comments about CO2. Her point of view is in alignment with what I have heard time and again from the anti-global climate change scientists such as Ian Plimer who was recently on the Prager show introducing his new book Heaven and Earth. Here is a review of the book:

[Link: www.smh.com.au...]

Here is the Amazon link:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Mike ///////\///////

258 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:27:25am

re: #252 alegrias

* * * *
"Patients are in control" and "making headway into conservative circles"
BOTH cannot be true.

Folks whom I label as Conservatives are in no way allowing the kook conspiracy bullshit of an Alex Jones in at all...

259 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:28:11am

re: #255 Son of the Black Dog

Two of the biggest myths in Washington are that:
Dan Quayle is stupid. He isn't stupid, just has a problem with verbalization.

Sorry, but after following Dan Quayle's career for years, I have to disagree. Strongly. This is one of the dumbest people ever to be elected to a high office.

260 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:28:54am

re: #257 mjwsatx

Sorry, Charles. While I agree with your point of view most of the time, I see nothing silly or ignorant about Bachmann's comments about CO2.

For starters, she claims that CO2 makes up 3% of the earth's atmosphere. Look that up and get back to me.

261 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:29:09am

re: #258 tfc3rid

Folks whom I label as Conservatives are in no way allowing the kook conspiracy bullshit of an Alex Jones in at all...

Problem is, Jones has put together a posse of maniac, and they're hammering down the doors, coming in through the windows, and otherwise making themselves at home right now. How do we keep them out is the problem, since they're bound and determined to apply their manic fury to the task of getting in and setting things right?

A crazy person with a clear idea is VERY dangerous.

262 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:29:34am

re: #255 Son of the Black Dog

Two of the biggest myths in Washington are that:
Dan Quayle is stupid. He isn't stupid, just has a problem with verbalization.
Al Gore is intelligent. He isn't, his intellect is a mile wide and an inch deep.

All true but still funny.

263 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:29:45am

re: #242 Jimmah

Good morning Jimmah. Please see my #221 where feedback is addressed.

264 nyc redneck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:30:19am

re: #213 Opinionated

On the subject of being an extremest.

Not long ago, an American politician who would argue for the US supporting- much less funding - Hamas, would be denounced as an Israel hating, America hating, Jihad loving, extremist nut.

In the MSN today are reports that such support and funding may be Obama policy.

If FOX going extremist is bad, the White House being extremist is worse.

america is going to need a harsh wake up call in order to shift focus to the very basic interest of survival as a people and as a country. it is just that simple. until then, we are lurching closer to real danger, avoiding the implications of what we see but refuse to address.

265 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:30:22am

re: #227 Charles

That blogger has good grammar and spelling, which is a relief. But she's still determined to play blame Bush, and it's boring.

Can we have a nice middle ground?

266 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:30:24am

re: #213 Opinionated

On the subject of being an extremest.

Not long ago, an American politician who would argue for the US supporting- much less funding - Hamas, would be denounced as an Israel hating, America hating, Jihad loving, extremist nut.

In the MSN today are reports that such support and funding may be Obama policy.

If FOX going extremist is bad, the White House being extremist is worse.

That funding needs to be in place IF Hamas becomes part of a coalition government with Fatha by taking a series of moderation steps they are unlikely to take for a two state solution. We have been indirectly funding Hezbollah in a coalition government in Lebanon for years, so no new ground being broken by BHO.

267 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:31:03am

re: #183 Charles

I don't disagree with that, and I'm not a fan of the carbon tax. But having people like Bachmann out there as representatives of the opposing view, ranting away and making numerous factual errors (and repeating them over and over), is incredibly damaging. She's the poster girl for the "anti-science GOP."

Yes, she is an idiot.

Around the 1 minute mark she claims CO2 is only 3% of of the earth's atmosphere. It is closer to 0.038%

268 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:31:20am

re: #201 MandyManners

This is code for "Jews". I've read other examples of this from Jones.

* * * *
Which party is blaming the Bush administration and BUSINESS for letting "greedy" and corrupt "bankers" cause our current financial meltdown?

As if democrats' mandates hadn't created the tools and opportunities & incentives for everyone to pig out, including people with NO money!

269 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:31:27am

re: #161 jcm

Morning Honcos.

Alex Jones is bat shit crazy.

Any leftover gamy troll buttocks from last nights open reg?

Good morning JCM! Another cool, cloudy day. When is spring going to come back to Everett?

270 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:31:37am

re: #259 Charles

Sorry, but after following Dan Quayle's career for years, I have to disagree. Strongly. This is one of the dumbest people ever to be elected to a high office.

I know some very intelligent professionals- including a doctor- who sometimes because they have trouble articulating- sound borderline retarded.

271 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:32:28am

re: #260 Charles

For starters, she claims that CO2 makes up 3% of the earth's atmosphere. Look that up and get back to me.

Morning Charles! LOL. Guess she had a little problem with that decimal point thingy.

272 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:32:43am

re: #266 avanti

That funding needs to be in place IF Hamas becomes part of a coalition government with Fatha by taking a series of moderation steps they are unlikely to take for a two state solution. We have been indirectly funding Hezbollah in a coalition government in Lebanon for years, so no new ground being broken by BHO.

That funding needs to be in place IF Hamas removes the get rid of Israel clause in it's charter.

Period.

How can you deal with ANYONE who has already promised, in writing (and in word and deed) to destroy the people who are trying to work with them?

273 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:32:46am

re: #266 avanti

That funding needs to be in place IF Hamas becomes part of a coalition government with Fatha by taking a series of moderation steps they are unlikely to take for a two state solution. We have been indirectly funding Hezbollah in a coalition government in Lebanon for years, so no new ground being broken by BHO.

So, to clarify, then:

1) The funding is intended to support an effort unlikely of accomplishment by one of two parties (Hamas and fatah) unwilling to depart from the path of genocide as a matter of state and national policy;

2) We point to the stunning success of hezbollah in lebanon in support of the idea.

Did I miss something?

274 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:33:54am

re: #273 Guanxi88

So, to clarify, then:

1) The funding is intended to support an effort unlikely of accomplishment by one of two parties (Hamas and fatah) unwilling to depart from the path of genocide as a matter of state and national policy;

2) We point to the stunning success of hezbollah in lebanon in support of the idea.

Did I miss something?

You didn't, but Avanti did. Over and over.

275 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:33:55am

re: #153 Syrah

Better Pictures form the firm that did the paint and colors.

Evidently the customized AR-15 was done as a present for the originator's wife (pictured?).

276 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:18am

re: #168 HelloDare

Nitrous oxide (N2O) 0.00003%

That goes up to about 30% at Yanni concerts. :)

277 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:35am

re: #250 KenJen

Kind of OT but I was listening to NPR this weekend. They were discussing the craigslist killer. Instead of referring to his victims as prostitutes they called them sex workers. I'd never heard that one before.

That's the new term; it has been around for a while.
I'm surprised they didn't call them professional sex workers; after all, they ply the world's oldest profession.

278 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:40am

re: #253 Idle Drifter

It's funny listening to the Chem Trail Kooks. I ask'em: Why would they pump the chemicals directly into turbine engine or the exhaust when doing so might alter the chemicals desired effects? And that the high altitude air currents would displace most of it over the continent reducing its effectiveness to nil.You could right a book with amount of nonsense they come up with.
On the other end of the spectrum ran into some idiot that claimed the government had listening satellites capable of hearing a conversation on the ground. I told him sound doesn't work very well in space. He simply replied, "They could it."

They are fun to toy with aren't they?

Eves dropping from space... it works like this.... Satellite using lasers measure vibrations on a window close to the subject, and translations window vibration into sound!

He's either on to something or watches too many movies......

Meanwhile then nano-repeating stations will have incorporated into all tinfoil has negated the wearing of tinfoil hats.

But don't tell anyone.

279 mjwsatx  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:46am

re: #260 Charles

Your right - she said 3 percent and CO2 is only .03 percent of our atmosphere.

I don't think her misstatement of the percentage makes her a kook. Her point that CO2 is not the cause of global warming, cooling, or whatever, is accurate and supported by lots of scientific evidence.

Mike ////////\/////////

280 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:48am

re: #260 Charles

For starters, she claims that CO2 makes up 3% of the earth's atmosphere. Look that up and get back to me.

Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1%.

So she slipped 2 decimal points and dropped one significant digit? Who hasn't done that?

281 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:49am

re: #266 avanti

That funding needs to be in place IF Hamas becomes part of a coalition government with Fatha by taking a series of moderation steps they are unlikely to take for a two state solution. We have been indirectly funding Hezbollah in a coalition government in Lebanon for years, so no new ground being broken by BHO.

Bush policy was to fund the "good" terrorists to fight Hamas.

Now Obama is going to fund both the "good" and the "bad" terrorists so they can join up.

US policy is simply amazing.

282 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:54am

re: #236 alegrias

* * * *
Dear Charles,

It's possible she is like me against BAD science. I don't want elected lawyers to lecture me on science or make scientific decisions. I don't trust Democrats to necessarily make better "pro-science" decisions.


You can disagree with how to respond to the science of AGW, but the longer the right labels it as 'bad science", the more on the margins the right be. There are plenty of arguments to be made on the effects of climate change and what we can do if anything to fix it, but it's far from bad science.

283 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:55am

"New to the Fox News lineup, it's the Alex Jones Show!"

/it's coming

284 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:34:59am

re: #257 mjwsatx

Sorry, Charles. While I agree with your point of view most of the time, I see nothing silly or ignorant about Bachmann's comments about CO2. Her point of view is in alignment with what I have heard time and again from the anti-global climate change scientists such as Ian Plimer who was recently on the Prager show introducing his new book Heaven and Earth. Here is a review of the book:

[Link: www.smh.com.au...]

Here is the Amazon link:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Mike //////////////

She came across as a blathering idiot, repeating over and over the same deeply flawed data.

285 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:35:00am

re: #270 Opinionated

I know some very intelligent professionals- including a doctor- who sometimes because they have trouble articulating- sound borderline retarded.

It's not about how he sounds -- it's the content of what he says. I know there are conservatives who get very defensive about Dan Quayle, but I'm sorry -- in this case his reputation for stunning stupidity is richly deserved.

286 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:35:15am

re: #269 Cygnus

Good morning JCM! Another cool, cloudy day. When is spring going to come back to Everett?

That was summer.... hope you enjoyed it!

///

287 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:35:15am

re: #259 Charles

Sorry, but after following Dan Quayle's career for years, I have to disagree. Strongly. This is one of the dumbest people ever to be elected to a high office.

I have no idea if you're right or not, but, what about Biden? Honestly, that man strikes me as dangerously stupid, worse even than Quayle.

288 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:35:42am

re: #221 MacGregor

Good morning everyone. Here's an excellent article by an MIT scientist about the corruption of science in the name of environmentalism. Sometimes I think Al Gore is the Ron Paul of environmentalism.

Hope everyone has an excellent Monday.

* * * *
Al Gore has no scientific expertise at all, and is just a fat HUCKSTER profiting from cap & trade schemes, monopolies and extortion of businesses, due to his having been Vice President and losing a presidential election.

Ron Paul graduated from Medical School and practiced medicine so would at least be competent to discuss medical questions related to his field of practice.

289 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:36:03am

re: #253 Idle Drifter

It's funny listening to the Chem Trail Kooks. I ask'em: Why would they pump the chemicals directly into turbine engine or the exhaust when doing so might alter the chemicals desired effects? And that the high altitude air currents would displace most of it over the continent reducing its effectiveness to nil.You could right a book with amount of nonsense they come up with.
On the other end of the spectrum ran into some idiot that claimed the government had listening satellites capable of hearing a conversation on the ground. I told him sound doesn't work very well in space. He simply replied, "They could it."

Of course sound travels in space! Haven't you watched any science fiction movies? I mean, on Star Trek, the Enterprise clearly goes "whoosh"!
/Idiot mode off

290 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:36:18am

re: #248 alegrias

* * * *
YOU are SO wrong.

Beckel's client President Carter got tossed after one lousy term.

Morris got President Clinton re-elected.

"Four More Years" Morris was much more effective than Beckel at their respective jobs.

Backel has the amazing power to get my tv channel to change.

291 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:36:19am

re: #272 Walter L. Newton

That funding needs to be in place IF Hamas removes the get rid of Israel clause in it's charter.

Period.

Agreed, 100%, period.

292 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:37:03am

re: #285 Charles

It's not about how he sounds -- it's the content of what he says. I know there are conservatives who get very defensive about Dan Quayle, but I'm sorry -- in this case his reputation for stunning stupidity is richly deserved.

I'm not defensive of him. He is not important today.

I do believe he got a raw deal from the media.

293 abolitionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:37:04am

re: #128 Charles

Here's a video of Bachmann's ignorant, silly comments about CO2:


[Video]These are the kind of people who give climate change skeptics a bad name.

She says that CO2 is 3% of the earth's atmosphere. This is wrong by about 2 orders of magnitude, so obviously she lacks a mastery of numbers and percentages, and likely has been fed some bad info on that score. And denial of the existence of reports about the potential problems from CO2 from human activity is a major tactical error. These errors seriously detract from her arguments (which I agree with) that CO2 is an essential component of the biosphere, and that considering it a pollutant is wrongheaded.

I do not look forward to the day that people will be fined for exhaling, on the basis that CO2 causes global warming and people are therefore pollution sources. It's getting close to that already with all the publicity about cow farts. What's next? Penalties for H2O emissions? It's then a very short step to outlawing trees.

294 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:37:11am

re: #291 avanti

Agreed, 100%, period.

Good, then we shall she what happens.

295 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:37:23am

re: #279 mjwsatx

Your right - she said 3 percent and CO2 is only .03 percent of our atmosphere.

I don't think her misstatement of the percentage makes her a kook. Her point that CO2 is not the cause of global warming, cooling, or whatever, is accurate and supported by lots of scientific evidence.

Mike /////////////////

No not a kook, but yes, an idiot. It was not a minor mistake, it showed a fundamental ignorance.

296 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:37:52am

re: #263 MacGregor

That's a lot of reading there. Can't you just quickly summarise the point for me? (Trying to post on a couple of websites at once here.)

297 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:37:52am

re: #281 Opinionated

Bush policy was to fund the "good" terrorists to fight Hamas.

Now Obama is going to fund both the "good" and the "bad" terrorists so they can join up.

US policy is simply amazing.

Hands up who saw this crazy train coming down the track?

298 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:38:01am

re: #253 Idle Drifter

On the other end of the spectrum ran into some idiot that claimed the government had listening satellites capable of hearing a conversation on the ground. I told him sound doesn't work very well in space. He simply replied, "They could it."

Hmmm...if I remember my acoustics courses in the Navy, sound needs three elements: a transmitter, a medium, and a receiver. Let's see, we have a transmitter on the ground - the voice, and a receiver in space - the satellite.

Now, what about the medium...oh yeah, a vacuum doesn't work too well.

"In space, no one can hear you scream."

(Alien)

299 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:38:09am

re: #291 avanti

Agreed, 100%, period.

But would they still be HAMAS if they did so? I mean, at that point, wouldn't you have to say they'd fundamentally changed the nature and purpose of the organization? And if the previous organization was centered and organized around the platform of "death to Israel" around what basis could they organize their people once that was gone?

Never going to happen; never.

300 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:38:13am

re: #255 Son of the Black Dog

Two of the biggest myths in Washington are that:
Dan Quayle is stupid. He isn't stupid, just has a problem with verbalization.
Al Gore is intelligent. He isn't, his intellect is a mile wide and an inch deep.

In additon, Al Gore is also a either a creationist or leans toward creationism.

301 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:38:33am

re: #260 Charles

For starters, she claims that CO2 makes up 3% of the earth's atmosphere. Look that up and get back to me.

She definitely has her decimal in the wrong place. According to the Wiki article, it's .038%.

302 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:38:50am

re: #272 Walter L. Newton

That funding needs to be in place IF Hamas removes the get rid of Israel clause in it's charter.

Period.

How can you deal with ANYONE who has already promised, in writing (and in word and deed) to destroy the people who are trying to work with them?

We also need to stop funding Fatah:
Abbas: "I Don't Accept" Israel As Jewish State

303 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:39:42am

re: #260 Charles

For starters, she claims that CO2 makes up 3% of the earth's atmosphere. Look that up and get back to me.

She's either misinformed or misrepresenting. The amount of CO2 according to #168 is 0.0383%.

304 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:40:05am

re: #282 avanti

You can disagree with how to respond to the science of AGW, but the longer the right labels it as 'bad science", the more on the margins the right be. There are plenty of arguments to be made on the effects of climate change and what we can do if anything to fix it, but it's far from bad science.

That's correct avanti, what is "bad" is not the underlying science, but rather the examples in which that science is misrepresented by the media or politicians.

The science of Climate Studies is evolving and improving.

305 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:41:10am

re: #245 Charles

That assumes she's capable of telling the difference.

* * * *
Judging the Scientific Method is a high standard for lawyers & politicians!

Another reason Centrally Planned Science directed by politicians, is not a good idea nor good science.

306 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:43:15am

re: #289 Kosh's Shadow

Of course sound travels in space! Haven't you watched any science fiction movies? I mean, on Star Trek, the Enterprise clearly goes "whoosh"!
/Idiot mode off

And phasers go "Zap!", and explosions, supernovae, etc, go "Boom!",....

307 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:43:29am

re: #296 Jimmah

That's a lot of reading there. Can't you just quickly summarise the point for me? (Trying to post on a couple of websites at once here.)

Read the whole thing if you have a moment. I don't want to take anything out of context. The guys an environmental scientist and puts together a good argument why we should be skeptical. Nothing to do with party or faith.

308 Thom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:44:18am

293 abolitionist

I do not look forward to the day that people will be fined for exhaling, on the basis that CO2 causes global warming and people are therefore pollution sources. It's getting close to that already with all the publicity about cow farts.

The EPA is way ahead of you!

In any case, carbon taxes, consumption taxes, etc., will be the means by which people are fined for existing.

Brought to us courtesy of Glen Beck the democrat party.

309 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:44:22am

re: #302 Kosh's Shadow

We also need to stop funding Fatah:
Abbas: "I Don't Accept" Israel As Jewish State

That's where diplomatic double speak could come in. They could continue to oppose accepting the creation of the Jewish state as legitimate while accepted the reality of it's existence as part of a two state solution.
i.e. China still does not accept Taiwan as not being part of China yet we've had a fragile peace for decades.

310 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:44:33am

re: #304 Bagua

That's correct avanti, what is "bad" is not the underlying science, but rather the examples in which that science is misrepresented by the media or politicians.

The science of Climate Studies is evolving and improving.

Science is not perfect, and we learn from previous theories and hypotheses that did not pan out as promised. In my own field, the concept of long, narrow land bridges between the supposedly immobile continents comes to mind. That was finally tossed out in the 1960s and 1970s with the emmergence of plate tectonics (aka continential drift) which was first proposed at least as early as the 1920s.

311 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:45:24am

re: #307 MacGregor

Read the whole thing if you have a moment. I don't want to take anything out of context. The guys an environmental scientist and puts together a good argument why we should be skeptical. Nothing to do with party or faith.

And based upon sound science.

312 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:45:59am

re: #304 Bagua

That's correct avanti, what is "bad" is not the underlying science, but rather the examples in which that science is misrepresented by the media or politicians.

The science of Climate Studies is evolving and improving.

The science is proceeding as science does.

What is bad is politician declaring the debate over long before it's over. Then making drastic changes in direction based on incomplete science. What is worse most of the politicians solutions are patently socialist.

313 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:46:19am

re: #305 alegrias

* * * *
Judging the Scientific Method is a high standard for lawyers & politicians!

Well -- you're the one who said she was just against "BAD science," so I assumed you were saying she knew the difference. I think she's as brainless as a chipmunk, doesn't have a clue about the difference between good and bad science, and just repeats the BS talking points that are fed to her by lobbyists.

314 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:46:24am

re: #304 Bagua

That's correct avanti, what is "bad" is not the underlying science, but rather the examples in which that science is misrepresented by the media or politicians.

The science of Climate Studies is evolving and improving.

Agreed, fight the paranoia and hype, but stop the blind disregard of the science.

315 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:46:31am

re: #286 jcm

That was summer.... hope you enjoyed it!

///

Darn global warming. Oh, my kitty Bart says hi. He's talking to me right now.

316 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:46:52am

re: #309 avanti

That's where diplomatic double speak could come in. They could continue to oppose accepting the creation of the Jewish state as legitimate while accepted the reality of it's existence as part of a two state solution.
i.e. China still does not accept Taiwan as not being part of China yet we've had a fragile peace for decades.

Yes, but you don't have factions within the PRC calling for the death of those in the ROC on grounds of religion. PRC view ROC as a rogue province, not an existential and theology enemy.

Nor do you have school curricula, popular culture outlets, and political campaigns and parties organized around the genocide of the population of the ROC; these conditions do not obtain in the Arab world in general, or in the Pali areas in particular. The comparison does not hold up.

317 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:46:56am

Ugh. Just heard an ad on the radio for that Alex Jones movie, "The Obama Deception." It even said at the end, "Brought to you by infowars.com."

318 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:47:13am

Alex Jones is clearly a raving paranoid. Everything is a plot. Bachmann is a kook of another sort. But most people recognize that when they see it.

What puzzles me is how or why normal sane people ignore the obvious insanity of Alex Jones and promote him or his ideas? Why is FOX News, which must have some rational people in senior management, giving airtime to Jones, and a whole show to that clown Glenn Beck? Why feature the racist Jew-haters Buchanan & Ron Paul? Why is the GOP leaning toward these crackpots?

If the Republican Party embraces the racist, paranoid anti-science lunatic wing, they can look forward to Obama's historic 2nd term in 2012 after losing the next mid-term elections.

Is this what we want?

319 aRedPhishHead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:47:33am

Disgrace.

I suggest everyone take a stroll through some of the documents and white papers by (and collected by) Mark Roberts - a leading debunker of the 9-11 Twoof movement.

Alex Jones was one of the revered leaders of that idiocy and pops up all over the place in 9-11 Truth circles.

320 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:48:39am

re: #310 Honorary Yooper

Science is not perfect, and we learn from previous theories and hypotheses that did not pan out as promised. In my own field, the concept of long, narrow land bridges between the supposedly immobile continents comes to mind. That was finally tossed out in the 1960s and 1970s with the emmergence of plate tectonics (aka continential drift) which was first proposed at least as early as the 1920s.

Correct, I'm not suggesting any perfection, just that the underlying science does in fact follow the scientific method.

Where I believe it departs is in the use of models to predict the future, and assumptions made about positive and negative feedback. The mistake is to give too high a degree of confidence in these models which are still being developed and tweaked. But it is good research and as it improves so will the models.

321 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:48:41am

re: #282 avanti

You can disagree with how to respond to the science of AGW, but the longer the right labels it as 'bad science", the more on the margins the right be. There are plenty of arguments to be made on the effects of climate change and what we can do if anything to fix it, but it's far from bad science.

* * * * * *
I guess I'm with the majority of Americans right now who are less concerned about Derelict Bloviator in Chief Al Gore's latest "passion" while UNEMPLOYED with 401(k) halved and the prospect of Pres. Obama putting GITMO enemy combatants in my 'hood with full housing, medical/dental & 3 meals a day plus religious observation assistance.

Global downturn trumps, if not solves, global hot air in my book right now.

322 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:49:30am

re: #309 avanti

That's where diplomatic double speak could come in. They could continue to oppose accepting the creation of the Jewish state as legitimate while accepted the reality of it's existence as part of a two state solution.
i.e. China still does not accept Taiwan as not being part of China yet we've had a fragile peace for decades.

However, China has most of the territory they started with, and they have reasons to want to be part of the world economy. What have the Palis ever made other than terror weapons?

And, speaking of China:
China Enters Israel-PA Politics

And it doesn't sound good:

The Chinese foreign minister recommended forcing Israel and the PA back to the negotiating table on the basis of “relevant U.N. resolutions, the ‘land for peace’ principle, the ‘Road Map’ plan and the Arab peace initiative.”


Too much stuff is made in China for me to boycott them. I'd have to go barefoot, not use any electronics, or many other things.

323 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:50:16am

re: #312 jcm

The science is proceeding as science does.

What is bad is politician declaring the debate over long before it's over. Then making drastic changes in direction based on incomplete science. What is worse most of the politicians solutions are patently socialist.

Exactly, JCM, and those of us who are warning of the "Global Warming Hoax" would do well to clarify our position.

The Hoax is not the science, the Hoax is the distortion of the science through bias.

324 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:50:32am

Is this extremist?

325 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:51:13am

re: #316 Guanxi88

Yes, but you don't have factions within the PRC calling for the death of those in the ROC on grounds of religion. PRC view ROC as a rogue province, not an existential and theology enemy.

Nor do you have school curricula, popular culture outlets, and political campaigns and parties organized around the genocide of the population of the ROC; these conditions do not obtain in the Arab world in general, or in the Pali areas in particular. The comparison does not hold up.

All your points are well taken and illustrate the challenges facing a peace plan. Fundamental changes in the Pali's attitude may take decades even if we end up with two states, not a rosy picture.

326 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:51:46am

re: #321 alegrias

* * * * * *
I guess I'm with the majority of Americans right now who are less concerned about Derelict Bloviator in Chief Al Gore's latest "passion" while UNEMPLOYED with 401(k) halved and the prospect of Pres. Obama putting GITMO enemy combatants in my 'hood with full housing, medical/dental & 3 meals a day plus religious observation assistance.

Global downturn trumps, if not solves, global hot air in my book right now.

I would agree, except that there is a train headed down the tracks toward us at full speed (AGW and cap & trade) that will keep the unemployed unemployed and push the rest of our industry out of the country if we don't have the debate now.

327 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:52:16am

re: #318 Kenneth

Alex Jones is clearly a raving paranoid. Everything is a plot. Bachmann is a kook of another sort. But most people recognize that when they see it.

What puzzles me is how or why normal sane people ignore the obvious insanity of Alex Jones and promote him or his ideas? Why is FOX News, which must have some rational people in senior management, giving airtime to Jones, and a whole show to that clown Glenn Beck? Why feature the racist Jew-haters Buchanan & Ron Paul? Why is the GOP leaning toward these crackpots?

If the Republican Party embraces the racist, paranoid anti-science lunatic wing, they can look forward to Obama's historic 2nd term in 2012 after losing the next mid-term elections.

Is this what we want?

Multiple up-dings.
This is the MFMSM's way of making sure that the Republican party is sidelined by making the people in the middle think it is made up of nutcases.

328 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:28am

re: #323 Bagua

Exactly, JCM, and those of us who are warning of the "Global Warming Hoax" would do well to clarify our position.

The Hoax is not the science, the Hoax is the distortion of the science through bias.

The part that is confusing to the layman is that some of the distortion is coming from 'scientists' .... such as Hansen from NASA.

329 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:32am

re: #325 avanti

All your points are well taken and illustrate the challenges facing a peace plan. Fundamental changes in the Pali's attitude may take decades even if we end up with two states, not a rosy picture.

And yet, was it your suggestion that we more or less encourage this state of affairs by continuing to treat the genocidal party as a legitimate, albeit misguided, participant in the process, in the hope (groundless at present, and with nothing done to realize it) that the desired state of affairs will at some future date materialize prior to some sort of gotterdammerung in the mid east?

330 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:40am

re: #326 eschew_obfuscation

I would agree, except that there is a train headed down the tracks toward us at full speed (AGW and cap & trade) that will keep the unemployed unemployed and push the rest of our industry out of the country if we don't have the debate now.

Yes, and we will lose the debate if we support idiots who are ignorant of the facts and misrepresent the science.

331 mattb  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:47am

re: #50 Occasional Reader

She made a public statement a month or two back that Americans should be ready to rise up in arms, or something to that effect. Later claimed her words were taken out of context.

I think the actual quote was more like "we have to be armed and dangerous on this issue". Maybe not the best choice of words, but I don't think it indicates craziness. I've heard her interviewed a couple of times and I like her.

I wish the Right in general were better on science - I'm not going to defend her explanation of CO2, but in the context of allowing the government to regulate it like a pollutant, she had a point.

I haven't heard her talk about evolution, but I wouldn't be surprised if she's an ID-er. So's half the country and three quarters of the GOP, alas. What can you do? Ditch everyone who not pure enough on science? Suppose they believe in astrology? ESP? Ghosts? Chiropractic? We'd have to exclude out 90% of the country.

332 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:55am

re: #325 avanti

All your points are well taken and illustrate the challenges facing a peace plan. Fundamental changes in the Pali's attitude may take decades even if we end up with two states, not a rosy picture.

And if the Palis get a state, without recognizing Israel, they can keep allowing terrorist attacks on Israel, while if Israel tries to stop them, they're invading a recognized country, and the world will consider them aggressors.
That's why recognition of Israel as a Jewish state must be a condition of any peace agreement.

333 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:54:23am

re: #330 Bagua

Yes, and we will lose the debate if we support idiots who are ignorant of the facts and misrepresent the science.

Agreed...

334 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:54:33am

re: #324 Opinionated

Is this extremist?


[Video]

The description for that ridiculous video:

Islam will overwhelm Christendom unless Christians recognize the demographic realities, begin reproducing again, and share the gospel with Muslims.

Yes, I would say that's more than a little bit "extremist."

335 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:54:50am

re: #326 eschew_obfuscation

I would agree, except that there is a train headed down the tracks toward us at full speed (AGW and cap & trade) that will keep the unemployed unemployed and push the rest of our industry out of the country if we don't have the debate now.

Truth.

336 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:55:00am

re: #328 eschew_obfuscation

I agree, and we must also counter ignorance and "anti-science" represented as science in the "skeptic" side to be effective.

337 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:56:10am

re: #324 Opinionated

Is this extremist?


[Video]

And by the way, that video quotes extensively from hate/fascist sites such as Brussels Journal. Lovely source you have there.

338 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:57:04am

re: #313 Charles

Well -- you're the one who said she was just against "BAD science," so I assumed you were saying she knew the difference. I think she's as brainless as a chipmunk, doesn't have a clue about the difference between good and bad science, and just repeats the BS talking points that are fed to her by lobbyists.

* * * *
I don't assume politicians are on top of science issues. It probably is as you suggest, they rely on lobbyists and congressional staff for their recommendations.

Former Genius Senator Bill Bradley, a former presidential contender considered a wise-man who was off the charts in IQ, lost to non-scientific non-genius Al Gore in the dem presidential primary, and was reported last week to be a director of a spammer company--you'd think he was an independent thinker where science/ethics are concerned.

339 aRedPhishHead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:57:31am

For more fun with Alex Jones, here he is with a bullhorn, blustering and rambling incoherently while leading a protest in 2006 about how the US government blew up the World Trade Center.

Note the legions of moronic blackshirts in tow.

340 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:57:31am

re: #334 Charles

Yes, I would say that's more than a little bit "extremist."

Link was just e-mailed to me by a friend. Who, by the way, is not a Christian.

As I started watching it I wondered if just worrying about Muslim demographic trajectories is considered extremist.

341 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:57:35am

re: #331 mattb

I wish the Right in general were better on science - I'm not going to defend her explanation of CO2, but in the context of allowing the government to regulate it like a pollutant, she had a point.

No, she had no point, she was displaying breathtaking ignorance, over and over again.

342 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:58:07am

OOPs, the first was a quote from mattb

343 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:59:45am

re: #307 MacGregor

Read the whole thing if you have a moment. I don't want to take anything out of context. The guys an environmental scientist and puts together a good argument why we should be skeptical. Nothing to do with party or faith.

Ok I read it, and I don't see anything in there that disputes my point about water vapour being a feedback effect and not a forcing agent.

344 horatiolust  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:00:16am

Heck, by that measure, you can argue that oxygen is a pollutant because at certain levels, it's fatal (just ask divers). Ditto for nitrogen, helium, and any other gas or substance.
You're leaving out the most noxious one of all - Dihydrogen Monoxide. Due in part to its widespread use in industry, Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is involved in many environmental incidents each year. While most are unavoidable given current technology, there can be little doubt that the presence of DHMO in each significantly increases the negative impact to the environment.

- DHMO contributes to global warming and the "Greenhouse Effect", and is one of the so-called "greenhouse gasses."

- DHMO is an "enabling component" of acid rain -- in the absence of sufficient quantities of DHMO, acid rain is not a problem.

- DHMO is a causative agent in most instances of soil erosion -- sufficiently high levels of DHMO exacerbate the negative effects of soil erosion.

- DHMO is present in high levels nearly every creek, stream, pond, river, lake and reservoir in the U.S. and around the world.

- Measurable levels of DHMO have been verified in ice samples taken from both the Arctic and Antarctic ice caps.

- Recent massive DHMO exposures have lead to the loss of life and destruction of property in California, the Mid-West, the Philippines, and a number of islands in the Caribbean, to name just a few.

- Research has shown that significant levels of DHMO were found in the devastating Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004 which killed 230,000 in Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia and elsewhere, making it the deadliest tsunami in recorded history.

- It is widely believed that the levee failures, flooding and the widespread destruction resulting from Hurricane Katrina along the U.S. Gulf Coast in 2005 were caused or exacerbated by excessive DHMO levels found in the Gulf of Mexico, along with other contributing factors.

345 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:01:34am

re: #328 eschew_obfuscation

The part that is confusing to the layman is that some of the distortion is coming from 'scientists' .... such as Hansen from NASA.

James Hansen, IMHO, has ceased being a scientist and has crossed over to politics and activism. He has also claimed that the democratic process isn't working (in other words, he's losing), and wants demostrations. He does not appear, from my perspective, to be interested in democracy anymore to address climate change or responses to it.

346 satan sidekick  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:27am

re: #105 tfc3rid

I've never seen Alex Jones (don't know who he is) nor have I seen Ron Paul on any Fox shows that I watch. As far as Bachman goes - she seems like a fine Congress Person to me.

347 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:36am

Her point about it being a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction is also ridiculous even with the correct numbers.

348 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:20am

re: #340 Opinionated

Link was just e-mailed to me by a friend. Who, by the way, is not a Christian.

As I started watching it I wondered if just worrying about Muslim demographic trajectories is considered extremist.

* * * *
Britain supports with full welfare benefits, immigrants with 4 fructiferous wives a piece, where's the harm in promoting multiple planned parenthoods from cradle to grave.

349 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:45am

re: #341 Bagua

Because the hoax is cloaked in science, it difficult for the layperson to grasp the concepts. It's much easier to just give in and say these scientists must be right thereby putting our faith in science.

350 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:46am

re: #329 Guanxi88

And yet, was it your suggestion that we more or less encourage this state of affairs by continuing to treat the genocidal party as a legitimate, albeit misguided, participant in the process, in the hope (groundless at present, and with nothing done to realize it) that the desired state of affairs will at some future date materialize prior to some sort of gotterdammerung in the mid east?

I think that if Hamas becomes part of a coalition and started down the path of moderation, it would be hard not to conditionally support that coalition much as we do in Lebanon.

351 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:04:03am

re: #345 Honorary Yooper

There is much evidence that Hansen is an agenda based activist.

352 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:04:47am

re: #350 avanti

I think that if Hamas becomes part of a coalition and started down the path of moderation, it would be hard not to conditionally support that coalition much as we do in Lebanon.

Yes, and if a frog had pockets, he could carry a sidearm.

353 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:06:53am

re: #350 avanti

I think that if Hamas becomes part of a coalition and started down the path of moderation, it would be hard not to conditionally support that coalition much as we do in Lebanon.

re: #352 Guanxi88

Yes, and if a frog had pockets, he could carry a sidearm.

To expand a bit on the point - HAMAS exists for no purpose other than the extermination of the Jewish people and the eradication of the state of Israel. Were they to take the steps you describe, they would not be HAMAS anymore; given that they toss people off buildings and execute folk on the pre-text of collaboration with the zionist entity, have youth cadres indoctrinated now since childhood in the virtues and merits of killing Jews, this would be a hard-sell to their constituencies, who are wuite likely to immediately kill anyone raising the idea. Never going to happen.

354 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:04am

re: #349 MacGregor

Correct, however the way to counter the hoax is to examine and clarify the science through education and further research, and expose the media and political bias.

Calling the science "bad" however, is ridiculous.

355 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:10am

re: #340 Opinionated

Link was just e-mailed to me by a friend. Who, by the way, is not a Christian.

As I started watching it I wondered if just worrying about Muslim demographic trajectories is considered extremist.

I would not trust any of the information in that video.

356 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:49am

re: #343 Jimmah

True the major gh gas is water vapor. His point is that Co2 is a minuscule portion and cannot become a driver.

357 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:10:41am

re: #356 MacGregor

If I'm not mistaken, it has been demonstrated that under laboratory conditions the increased CO2 concentration can become a "driver."

358 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:12:19am

The real question is whether this occurs in the vastly more complex environment in which there are far more variables and interactions.

359 abolitionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:41am

re: #347 Bagua

Her point about it being a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction is also ridiculous even with the correct numbers.

She was speaking of human contributions to atmospheric CO2 being far less than from other sources --those over which we have absolutely no control.

360 S'latch  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:00am

I am stocking up on canned goods, lots of beans, rice, dried berries, nuts, and bottled water.

361 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:33am

re: #347 Bagua

Her point about it being a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction is also ridiculous even with the correct numbers.

I don't see it that way.

If this article is correct, that only 0.28% of the greenhouse gas effect is anthropogenic and even the wildest AGW alarmists don't predict a 20 degree warming over the next hundred years, only about 0.5 degrees of that would be anthropogenic.

If that logic holds and we eliminate all human sources of green house gases, we stop no more than 0.5 degrees of warming.

Spending any resources on fixing that problem seems silly.

362 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:17:05am

re: #359 abolitionist

She was speaking bunk my friend, I listened to the video.

363 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:18:42am

re: #356 MacGregor

True the major gh gas is water vapor. His point is that Co2 is a minuscule portion and cannot become a driver.

But water vapour is not a forcing agent, so it is not driving changes in temperature over time. Saying that CO2 cannot be a driver because it is a miniscule proportion of atmospheric gas is a terrible argument. In fact, it's simply fallacious.

364 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:20:31am

re: #355 Charles

I would not trust any of the information in that video.

I asked my friend. He got the link from an Israeli friend of his.

365 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:20:34am

re: #363 Jimmah

Do you think the author is being dishonest?

366 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:13am

re: #361 eschew_obfuscation

That's not my point at all. What she was doing was making an appeal to "commonsense" how can such a wee little tiny bit do anything?

Just a tiny bit of LSD has quite a dramatic effect on a vastly larger volume of the human body.

She was not making a scientific argument.

367 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:22:16am

re: #328 eschew_obfuscation

The part that is confusing to the layman is that some of the distortion is coming from 'scientists' .... such as Hansen from NASA.

That's why it's important the debate continue. The Mann hockey stick hoax was exposed, as is Hansen being outed.

368 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:23:51am

re: #363 Jimmah

But water vapour is not a forcing agent, so it is not driving changes in temperature over time. Saying that CO2 cannot be a driver because it is a miniscule proportion of atmospheric gas is a terrible argument. In fact, it's simply fallacious.

Exactly. And it greatly weakens the valid points raised by "skeptics"

369 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:26:11am

re: #365 MacGregor

I don't know. It's always a distinct possibility with scientists who claim that the majority of their fellow workers in the field are fools, conspirators etc.

370 jcm  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:28:25am

re: #323 Bagua

Exactly, JCM, and those of us who are warning of the "Global Warming Hoax" would do well to clarify our position.

The Hoax is not the science, the Hoax is the distortion of the science through bias.

Climate Change is real and cyclic.
I am very skeptical about the effect on overall climate change of the anthropogenic component. I am not convinced anthropogenic component are the driver the global warming crowd claims, until that portion of the science is settled I don't think upsetting the politics and economy of the entire world is a prudent course.

Would a more prudent course be to adapt to climate change? With that course we a prepare for climate change whether it is natural or man made. If we change the entire political and ecomonic world veiw for anthropogenic climate change and suddenly find out it is not anthropogenic, we will be more screwed than if we did nothing. Instead of preparing we'd have wasted time and resources on something that couldn't be changed, and we not ready have wasted all that effort.

371 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:15am

re: #369 Jimmah

I don't know. It's always a distinct possibility with scientists who claim that the majority of their fellow workers in the field are fools, conspirators etc.

That comment shows bias, his work should be judged on its scientific merit. This discrediting of "skeptics" on moral and consensus grounds is a type of group think and is very much a large part of the hoax.

372 abolitionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:32:24am

re: #362 Bagua

She was speaking bunk my friend, I listened to the video.

(OT) Regretably, numerical illiteracy is widespread.
Transcript: Verizon Doesn't Know How To Count
VerizonMath

373 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:32:38am

re: #370 jcm

Climate Change is real and cyclic.
I am very skeptical about the effect on overall climate change of the anthropogenic component. I am not convinced anthropogenic component are the driver the global warming crowd claims, until that portion of the science is settled I don't think upsetting the politics and economy of the entire world is a prudent course.

Would a more prudent course be to adapt to climate change? With that course we a prepare for climate change whether it is natural or man made. If we change the entire political and ecomonic world veiw for anthropogenic climate change and suddenly find out it is not anthropogenic, we will be more screwed than if we did nothing. Instead of preparing we'd have wasted time and resources on something that couldn't be changed, and we not ready have wasted all that effort.

Ding!

If this kind of sense were common, we wouldn't have much of a problem.

374 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:33:18am

re: #369 Jimmah

Interesting point of view. We see it from both sides.

375 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:09am

re: #370 jcm

Yes I agree strongly, also, the warming, anthropogenic or natural, re: #372 abolitionist

As I said previously, even omitting the "numerical mistake" and using the correct number, her argument was facile.

376 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:39:24am

OOPs, my prior was a reply to #373, I didn't mean to quote JCM.

I'm still learning this chat.

377 funky chicken  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:40:53am

re: #334 Charles

It's definitely alarmist :-).

378 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:43:40am

re: #370 jcm

Yes, I agree strongly. On balance, it is far from clear that Global Warming, regardless of the cause, is actually harmful. Certainly some areas, species and populations would suffer, but others would benefit. Some that we expect to suffer, like the Polar Bears, may adapt. Much of the future predictions are simply speculation.

From what we do know, cold is a far more insidious killer of humans.

379 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:51:53am

re: #378 Bagua

Yes, I agree strongly. On balance, it is far from clear that Global Warming, regardless of the cause, is actually harmful. Certainly some areas, species and populations would suffer, but others would benefit. Some that we expect to suffer, like the Polar Bears, may adapt. Much of the future predictions are simply speculation.

From what we do know, cold is a far more insidious killer of humans.

And on a purely non-scientific note.... doesn't it seem silly to assume that the current global climate conditions are the "best" for the inhabitants of the planet?

380 Mad Mullah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:52:24am

For many years, I remember reading the most insane posts by nutjobs on various forums and many of the posters had something in common, their source would be infowars or prison planet, both run by Alex Jones. Liberals would link to these sites like crazy. Alex Jones is certainly not on my side of the aisle.

381 bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:15am

re: #379 eschew_obfuscation

Yes I agree, and the point I'm trying to push here, is that we should approach the science on the basis of science, and non-scientific value beliefs, such as what is "best" for what inhabitants, each on their own merits and not confuse the two.

Nor should those pointing the finger at bias engage in bias themselves.

Lets raise the level of the debate and increase our education and understanding.

382 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:57:15am

re: #381 bagua

Yes I agree, and the point I'm trying to push here, is that we should approach the science on the basis of science, and non-scientific value beliefs, such as what is "best" for what inhabitants, each on their own merits and not confuse the two.

Nor should those pointing the finger at bias engage in bias themselves.

Lets raise the level of the debate and increase our education and understanding.

Can't (don't want to) disagree with any of that.

383 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:02:59am

re: #380 Mad Mullah

Alex Jones seems to be an equal opportunity kook.

384 Just_A_Grunt  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:06:43am

I don't think Michelle Bachmann deserves to be thrown under the bus. So, she gave an interview to Pam. I have never heard her buy into any conspiracy theory or spout any sort of neo Nazi beliefs. Let's not be so quick to question somebody becaused they agreed to be interviewed by a blogger.
On the other hand the favorable treatment of Alex Jones by Judge Napolitano does disturb me. I always considered Napolitano a very pro constitution, Libertarian type guy which would often confuse me sometimes when he was giving his views on certain issues. I didn't always agree with him but he made his points in a valid way. Associating with and promoting hate mongers like Alex Jones however is crossing a line, in my mind at least, that he may not be able to come back from.

385 Øyvind Strømmen  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:36:41am

Oh, I long for some good old-fashioned good craziness.

386 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:40:51am

re: #371 Bagua

That comment shows bias, his work should be judged on its scientific merit. This discrediting of "skeptics" on moral and consensus grounds is a type of group think and is very much a large part of the hoax.

Wrong. I merely said it was possible that he is being dishonest. I didn't say he should be automatically dismissed because he is a sceptic, my point was that the fact that HE is so dismissive of his fellow workers gives cause for concern.

387 Øyvind Strømmen  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:43:14am

re: #370 jcm

If we change the entire political and ecomonic world veiw for anthropogenic climate change and suddenly find out it is not anthropogenic, we will be more screwed than if we did nothing.

If the IPCC and others are correct, we probably have to prepare for climate change in any case, so preparing is a good idea. However, you must consider that anthropogenic climate change - if indeed real - is driven by burning fossil fuels. Since these are not eternal resources, a change to renewable energy (I don't know if that means the "entire political and economic world view") is or will be necessary in any case.

388 Ben G. Hazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:45:21am

re: #139 Honorary Yooper

Idealy, for human life, oxygen levels should be above 19.5%. Currently, the average amount of oxygen in the atmosphere is 21%. Oxygen seems to have no upper safe limit, but at high concentrations, it can start to burn everything around it very easily, including one's lungs.

Again with the Apollo reference...see the Apollo 1 fire on their plugs-out test with 100% oxygen at about 17 psi. A shorted wire sparks, the capsule turns into a raging inferno, and 3 astronauts die within a minute or so.

389 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:46:03am

re: #384 Just_A_Grunt

I don't think Michelle Bachmann deserves to be thrown under the bus. So, she gave an interview to Pam. I have never heard her buy into any conspiracy theory or spout any sort of neo Nazi beliefs. Let's not be so quick to question somebody becaused they agreed to be interviewed by a blogger.

First, Michele Bachmann was never on any bus that I was driving, so I can't really throw her under. Second, my objection to her crazy beliefs has nothing to do with Pamela Geller -- I didn't even know she had been interviewed by Geller until I did a search today. And I certainly never said she had "neo Nazi beliefs."

She espouses a number of extreme positions on issues that are important to me, and I definitely stand by the label "kook." I think it's a disgrace that she is treated as some kind of spokesperson for the GOP.

390 SecondComing  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:07:14pm

re: #122 Last Mohican

I just spent ten or fifteen minutes over at Alex Jones' InfoWars website, just to make sure that the whole joint is still bat-shit crazy. I was not disappointed. It's a veritable cornucopia of mildly disordered thought and links to other crazy websites.

The current headlines are mostly about swine flu. Here's basically how they're playing it:

1. The new swine flu was probably genetically engineered as a biological weapon. Here's a little quote for you:


2. The government is going to force everyone to get vaccinated, because that benefits Big Pharma. And of course, vaccines are bad and harmful. So, the kooks say, don't accept the vaccine. Instead, get plenty of sleep, and drink a lot of alkalinized water. They'll be happy to provide you with links to companies that sell water alkalinizers.

3. The government is probably going to impose martial law (at least they didn't spell it "Marshall Law" like these people usually do) and put everyone in big internment camps that FEMA has been secretly building.

haha i did too:
4. Missing/murdered microbiologists

391 wiffersnapper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:12:32pm

Please get rid of Alex Jones' megaphone before pursuing liberals. At least with liberals there's still a grain of sanity in them.

392 SecondComing  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:16:18pm

re: #201 MandyManners

This is code for "Jews". I've read other examples of this from Jones.

You're absolutely correct. It's always a variation of that. The most telling to me is his hate of the Rothschild's. German Jewish bankers who were supporters of the state of Israel, donated the Supreme Court of Israel building.

393 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:29:19pm

re: #386 Jimmah

Wrong. I merely said it was possible that he is being dishonest. I didn't say he should be automatically dismissed because he is a sceptic, my point was that the fact that HE is so dismissive of his fellow workers gives cause for concern.

Wrong? It’s a matter of perception I suppose, but I would say yes, at least mild bias because rather than concentrate on what the author, an MIT professor if I’m not mistaken, had to say from a scientific point of view, you throw the red herring that it’s a “distinct possibility” that he’s actually a liar, though now that you’ve modified it to “gives cause for concern” that’s a little different, with humans, we must always worry if we are being conned, but we should be fair, why would he lie?

Its wrong to compare every scientist to nuts like Gore and Hansen and it is also wrong to label every one with a dissenting opinion a “denier” or a “kook” or a liar. (Though surely some are.)


I just posted a link “A new one almost every week” that takes a look at climate alarmism and proposes a new scientific law. Also, the new scare of mass starvation and unrest from the possible cooling trend we are experiencing.

[Link: eureferendum.blogspot.com...]

394 Cato  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:34:10pm

re: #389 Charles

In what manner and in what concentrations do you believe CO2 to be "not harmless"? I believe it to be a dose specific poison, and we are nowhere near the dose that would make it dangerous.

395 abolitionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:59:18pm

re: #79 Charles

Well, you can disagree with AGW, but claiming CO2 is "harmless" is ridiculous.

I'm interested in Cato's question too.

396 tradewind  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:00:42pm

Is Judge Andy related to Sec Janet?

397 tradewind  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:03:55pm

re: #390 SecondComing

I just read your comment, haven't read up-thread much, but even with AJ being bat-shiite crazy, we do have two unsolved and vaguely weird deaths of prominent microbiologists/virologists here in my city, researchers at a major cancer hospital. Both were young-ish, both died under mysterious circumstances.
Just saying.

398 ladycatnip  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:06:26pm

#76 lawhawk

Giving you updings for your link to Obama being outwitted by Teleprompter.

That is priceless. Way to go Teleprompter!

399 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:17:05pm

re: #398 ladycatnip

Is the Teleprompter harmless?

400 SecondComing  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:19:23pm

re: #397 tradewind

I just read your comment, haven't read up-thread much, but even with AJ being bat-shiite crazy, we do have two unsolved and vaguely weird deaths of prominent microbiologists/virologists here in my city, researchers at a major cancer hospital. Both were young-ish, both died under mysterious circumstances.
Just saying.

I'm not making any judgments on any of that. I'm just adding to the list of what's going around on his site at the moment.

401 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:41:18pm

re: #394 Cato

In what manner and in what concentrations do you believe CO2 to be "not harmless"? I believe it to be a dose specific poison, and we are nowhere near the dose that would make it dangerous.

Look -- it's a scientific fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. And it's also extremely well-documented that human activity has been increasing the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. It is absolutely not harmless.

The debate is over how much is too much, and it's certainly not settled yet; but there's no debate at all in the scientific community that the increase of CO2 since the start of the Industrial Revolution is worrying, and should be of concern.

I'm always surprised when conservatives so vehemently deny these facts; to my way of thinking it's very much a conservative value to care about the environment.

402 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:49:12pm

re: #393 Bagua

Wrong? It’s a matter of perception I suppose, but I would say yes, at least mild bias because rather than concentrate on what the author, an MIT professor if I’m not mistaken, had to say from a scientific point of view, you throw the red herring that it’s a “distinct possibility” that he’s actually a liar, though now that you’ve modified it to “gives cause for concern”

I stand by both statements. In my experience, people, including scientists, who rail about most scientists in a given field being liars and/or idiots are full of shit. I'm just being honest. I could give you plenty of examples to back that up from creationists, to morphic resonance enthusiasts to 'electric sun' proponents and many more. It doesn't prove anything, (and I never said it did), and I agree with you that the science itself is what matters, but it does set certain alarm bells ringing.

403 Bagua  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:31:29pm

re: #402 Jimmah

I can accept that, it is not unreasonable and certainly within the realm of possibility. The nuance of what is a minor bias or not is irrelevant to what we both agree, which is the science should be examined on its own merits. It just seems to be a bit too dismissive to always question the morals, intelligence or sanity of everyone who offers a criticism, but certainly, it is often the case on a variety of subjects.

What concerns me more is other much more clearly defined bias, such as what I believe we are currently witnessing in the media and politics. They do both sides a disservice with the exaggerations and fear mongering, if on the one hand it turns out that the Anthropogenic effect is significant, including the increased CO2 effect, then they have weakened the case through overstatement which is turning many voters off at the present and may cause a backlash against effective action, alternatively, if they are wrong in their models and projections of the future effects of increased CO2, then we are sacrificing our economy for nothing.

404 SupremeCourtMike  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:03:02pm

I rarely catch his show, so can someone please explain to me why Glenn Beck is a kook? Looking for an honest analysis. Thanks.

405 voluble  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:14:34pm

Lots of things are greenhouse gases. My farts are greenhouse gases. The air I exhale is a greenhouse gas. Trees need CO2 to live. You can't just pluck one part of the cycle out and try to demonize only the manmade portion of it. That is religion, it is not science. No honest scientist will tell you that they have the slightest idea what temperatures will do over the next 100 years. The models they have are not accurate. But let's suppose they were... then your decision tree would look something like the following as you offer proof that;

1: There are significant harmful effects from CO2 production in the quantities man produces.
2: These effects outweigh beneficial effects like the extension of the growing season or increased plant growth due to the higher concentration of CO2 etc...
3: You would have to then show that there is something that can actually be done to curtail emissions in any meaningful manner.
4: You would then have to show that the benefits of curtailing CO2 minus the cost of the "cure" still outweigh the benefits of increasing CO2.
5: To the above calculations you have to add the negative effects that a cure may have on the environment. For instance, we banned nuclear energy the last time this type of hysteria was in the air and have more CO2 as the result.
6: You would also have to convince people that the supposed net positive effect of all of the above is worth the loss of freedom and other intangibles that would come with putting absolute raving lunatics like Al Gore or Obama or Pelosi in charge of our energy policy.
6: You would have to believe that the same government which caused the mortgage mess would be competent enough to engineer a complex system such as the environment that they know even less about than they do economic systems. Pelosi famously can't even tell you what a fossil fuel is (even though she is well on the way to becoming fossilized herself) and there are those who think she can determine what the rest of us use for energy? Really? That is not sane and there is no way it can end in anything other than disaster.
7: You would have to trust that they wouldn't use their new found powers for reasons other than that which they were originally intended.
8: You would have to believe that India and China would agree to join us all in economic suicide or they will just make up the difference in CO2 production and laugh at us while they prosper and we stagnate.
9: Then after all of that you would have to show that this issue is more worthy of spending our meager resources upon than any of a million other pressing issues such as the Iranian nukes, or comets hitting the earth, or funding little armies of children to run about and praise Obama.

I am an engineer by training and I know how models are constructed. The only reason most of them work is that we rig the results. We use materials whose properties we know and have them act in a closed system in a manner with which we are familiar. Outside of these parameters they are of little use. This is the difference between an engineer and a climatologist. They have no way of checking their work and thus no way of assessing its accuracy without the passage of centuries. What few checks they have done by running things backwards for periods in the past show that their work is highly flawed.

So in other words, since you can't meet the criteria above you can't show that you aren't actually proposing to do more harm than good. Any action we take would be based upon your own religious belief that manmade things are bad and natural things are good... and upon your hubris and willingness to use force to inflict those beliefs upon others. This has nothing to do with science. Science doesn't work that way nor does the natural world. Religion does. The global warmers are every bit as crazy as the intelligent design guys. They take one scientific fact and pretend it is the only one that matters. But the harm ID'ers can do is much less than what the AGW alarmists can do... and I say that as an atheist.

406 Cato  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 4:01:33pm

re: #401 Charles

Like you, I have no idea what the "proper" amount of atmospheric CO2 should be, or whether, in fact, there exists a concentration that could be considered optimal. I do know, however, that unlike other "pollutants", having a 0% CO2 concentration in the atmosphere would indicate a disaster. It would indicate life on earth was extinct. I do not know of any other "pollutant" in which the absence of the pollutant would indicate a greater degree of degree of death than the existence of the pollutant. Radiation? Nope. Heavy metals? Uh, uh. MTBE's? Sorry.

Thus, since the limit of 0% is bad, we know we have to have some. What is some? 1%? That is the concentration in a crowded, unvented auditorium. It can cause drowsiness. I hate drowsiness. Thankfully, we already have far less than that. We have 0.039% now, and we are quickly heading toward, 0.042%.

But no you say, I misunderstand. That is not what we worry about. It is the greenhouse effect that is the problem, the heating of the atmosphere that CO2 causes by blanketing the earth and retaining the heat of the sun. Well, if it did that at a high level in the atmosphere, I might agree. But because CO2 is 1.5x denser than the atmosphere. Thus, if it traps any heat at all, it is at the very lowest levels where CO2 clumps, so the vast majority of the atmosphere is unaffected.

Aren't the polar ice caps at the lowest levels where the CO2 clumps? I don't think so, although this may be improper analysis. Ice, being less dense than liquid water, rises above the water. Concentrations of CO2 should be highest on the downslopes of glaciers, not their tops.

Thus I doubt it all.

407 MacGregor  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 4:06:48pm

re: #401 Charles

Conservatives believe in being good stewards of the environment. By nature we are reluctant to change for change's sake. We are also watchful of those who would pull a fast one.

This reminds me a bit of Eugenics but instead of science being used to target a race, it targets Americans' freedoms by controlling energy to such a point that it's not about the environment any more, rather control.

Maybe someone can offer concrete evidence that feedback overrides the natural energy cycles of the sun driving our climate.

Charles, thank you for letting me use your software to post articles that you don't agree with.

408 edinbud  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:52:53am

It's all beginning to make sense: Alex Jones works for the CIA; employed to spread endless conspiracy theories so we don't catch on to their real agenda.

409 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:14:55am

The Republicans are attracting a ton of nut jobs lately, they are juxtaposing the left wing moon bats whom they ridiculed for crazy conspiracy theories for so long.
The rubbish that I've read on the swine flu is beyond normal.

What gets me is how regular normal republicans and conservatives who are for pro life now seriously believe that they are part of some right wing extremist organization and have their phones tapped and followed in their cars. Seriously, unless you are plotting to strap bombs to abortion clinic doctors and send them into the white house (remote controlled by some Manchurian candidate style device which Alex Jones has been warning us about for years) then you really have nothing to worry over.

But sadly, couldn't believe catching my wife last night, hunched over her computer downloading youtube videos of Alex Jones, it was so embarrassing.

410 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:17:54am

re: #401 Charles

Yet I listened to Neal Boortz a few years ago stating that teaching kids recycling at school was wrong.

Caring for your local environment isn't a gateway ideology to Communism, as some right wing talk show hosts would have you believe.

Thank god I found this site. A break from the normal wack jobs on both the left and right.

411 acidtrash  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:24am

Charles, why shouldn't Glenn Beck be acceptable viewing to conservatives?
He talks of fiscal responsibility, low taxes and small government. Something the GOP has long since lost touch with.

Yes he's a slimy, disingenuous, obsequious toad but when the mainstream parties of the west have conspired to be as bland as possible to capture the swing vote and the big choices are decided upon on the whim of the politically disinterested, what else are we to do than explore thoroughly and debate alternatives. You should think yourself lucky Charles. At least you have a marketplace of ideas in the US rather than the proscribed and statutory position on neutrality we have in the UK.

You may not like Ron Pauls foreign policy ideals but he's got one thing straight, we can't afford it and we suck at it.

412 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:16:22pm

re: #411 acidtrash

Charles, why shouldn't Glenn Beck be acceptable viewing to conservatives?
He talks of fiscal responsibility, low taxes and small government. Something the GOP has long since lost touch with.

Yes he's a slimy, disingenuous, obsequious toad but when the mainstream parties of the west have conspired to be as bland as possible to capture the swing vote and the big choices are decided upon on the whim of the politically disinterested, what else are we to do than explore thoroughly and debate alternatives. You should think yourself lucky Charles. At least you have a marketplace of ideas in the US rather than the proscribed and statutory position on neutrality we have in the UK.

You may not like Ron Pauls foreign policy ideals but he's got one thing straight, we can't afford it and we suck at it.

We most certainly cannot afford Ron Paul's dogmatically isolationist alternative; we have tried that before, and all it got us was World War II.

413 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:47:59am

re: #411 acidtrash

Charles, why shouldn't Glenn Beck be acceptable viewing to conservatives? ... Yes he's a slimy, disingenuous, obsequious toad ...

Maybe you like watching slimy, disingenuous, obsequious toads, but I prefer to spend time in more positive ways.


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