An Epidemic of Amnesia

Opinion • Views: 2,180

Former CIA director Porter J. Goss has a column in the Saturday Washington Post on the sudden “epidemic of amnesia” among House Democrats about harsh interrogation techniques: Security Before Politics.

A disturbing epidemic of amnesia seems to be plaguing my former colleagues on Capitol Hill. After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, members of the committees charged with overseeing our nation’s intelligence services had no higher priority than stopping al-Qaeda. In the fall of 2002, while I was chairman of the House intelligence committee, senior members of Congress were briefed on the CIA’s “High Value Terrorist Program,” including the development of “enhanced interrogation techniques” and what those techniques were. This was not a one-time briefing but an ongoing subject with lots of back and forth between those members and the briefers.

Today, I am slack-jawed to read that members claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as “waterboarding” were never mentioned. It must be hard for most Americans of common sense to imagine how a member of Congress can forget being told about the interrogations of Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed. In that case, though, perhaps it is not amnesia but political expedience.

Let me be clear. It is my recollection that:

— The chairs and the ranking minority members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, known as the Gang of Four, were briefed that the CIA was holding and interrogating high-value terrorists.

— We understood what the CIA was doing.

— We gave the CIA our bipartisan support.

— We gave the CIA funding to carry out its activities.

— On a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission against al-Qaeda.

I do not recall a single objection from my colleagues. They did not vote to stop authorizing CIA funding.

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538 comments
1 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:52:29am

Big surprise, there.

This is politics, and no one ever wants to admit responsibility.

2 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:52:37am

LALALALALALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

/Nancy Pelosi

3 brookly red  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:12am

I guess messing with the CIA was not such a good idea after all...

4 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:30am

Busted!

5 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:53:59am
6 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:54:03am

Hey, their denial to authorize force in Iraq worked, why not this?

7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:54:15am

I have seen it said, by more than one source, that Pelosi wondered if we were doing enough.

8 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:55:16am

re: #6 unrealizedviewpoint

Hey, their denial to authorize force in Iraq worked, why not this?

bad wording:
Meant to say: They denied they authorized...

9 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:55:16am

re: #7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have seen it said, by more than one source, that Pelosi wondered if we were doing enough.

Pelosi is a hypocrite if that's what she wondered.

10 simonml  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:55:22am
11 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:55:35am

The Democrats need some Milk of Amnesia to get this out of their systems.

12 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:55:36am

How come its obstruction of justice when I do not say something true to a federal official, even if I am not under oath, but these clowns get to lie their asses off left and right with impunity?

13 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:56:21am
— The chairs and the ranking minority members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, known as the Gang of Four, were briefed that the CIA was holding and interrogating high-value terrorists.

— We understood what the CIA was doing.

— We gave the CIA our bipartisan support.

— We gave the CIA funding to carry out its activities.

— On a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission against al-Qaeda.

This is why I find the prospect of any prosecutions over this very unlikely.

14 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:56:33am

I saw a brief clip of a man (looked like a military training exersize) being waterboarded. It was hard to watch the man struggle for air and release from the two men holding him down. I did not see that the man was left toothless. He was not bleeding. No bones were broken. No long-term effects visible.

But it did look EFFECTIVE in scaring the crap out of him.

15 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:56:35am

re: #11 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The Democrats need some Milk of Amnesia to get this out of their systems.

Need to reroute the Potomac for a day and get congress out of our systems.

16 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:56:42am

When did we elect a bunch of Sgt Schultz clones?
"I see nothing!"

17 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:57:14am

Quoted & re-posted for effect:

— The chairs and the ranking minority members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, known as the Gang of Four, were briefed that the CIA was holding and interrogating high-value terrorists.

— We understood what the CIA was doing.

— We gave the CIA our bipartisan support.

— We gave the CIA funding to carry out its activities.

— On a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission against al-Qaeda.

I do not recall a single objection from my colleagues. They did not vote to stop authorizing CIA funding.

Forward that to every Democrat, RINO, liberal, lefty & moonbat in your address book.

18 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:57:16am
19 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:58:30am

Unicorns!

The suggestion that we are safer now because information about interrogation techniques is in the public domain conjures up images of unicorns and fairy dust. We have given our enemy invaluable information about the rules by which we operate. The terrorists captured by the CIA perfected the act of beheading innocents using dull knives. Khalid Sheik Mohammed boasted of the tactic of placing explosives high enough in a building to ensure that innocents trapped above would die if they tried to escape through windows. There is simply no comparison between our professionalism and their brutality.

20 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:58:33am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

This is why I find the prospect of any prosecutions over this very unlikely.

I'm not nearly so optimistic.

21 simonml  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:59:19am

re: #19 Ward Cleaver

Unicorns!

Princess Unicorn?

Couldn't resist

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:59:36am

These meetings are very top secret, and people are not supposed to talk about them.

Attendees (Congress-critters) are not allowed to take notes, they are not allowed to have aids in the room...these conversations appear to be getting pretty public.

Guess they thought no one would talk about them. Funny how far people will step out to call someone a lying liar.

23 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:59:41am

I just don't really understand why these people hate America so much? They can't all be that stupid?

24 Clubsec  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:59:43am

Perhaps Nancy was occupied getting a quickie in the closet at the time so ... she (using Hillary's favorite phrase) ... "I can't recall." ?

25 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 9:59:46am

"He's just another Republican trying to protect Bush!"

/democrats, msm

26 nyc redneck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:00:00am

in fact peolsi wondered if the tactics were actually going far enough, to get information during interrogations.
now she doesn't recall anything.
they are all going to plead the 5th.
that says it all abt. these liars.

27 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:00:09am

We need grown-ups running the country. Sometimes, when you
have the responsibility , you need to make tough decisions.
Once those decisions are made, you need to take responsibility
for them, and let the chips fall where they may. What we do not need
is leaders who always follow the path of least resistance even when
that path is directly opposite to one they took in the past.

28 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:00:11am
29 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:00:12am

How can this possibly be true? Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats HATE the torture that was committed under the Bush Presidency.
I mean, just because they didn't OPPOSE it means they were for it!
/

30 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:00:28am

I want to see Pelosi go down over this. Her out and out lying should be impossible even for the lap dog media to cover up.

31 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:00:50am

re: #18 buzzsawmonkey

Heh.

In the meantime, they're just milking it.

If one wants a career in politics, it helps to be Fleet of foot.

32 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:01:01am

re: #30 LGoPs

I want to see Pelosi go down over this. Her out and out lying should be impossible even for the lap dog media to cover up.

Oh, but they'll try.

33 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:01:05am

Bravo to Porter Goss, standing athwart the memory hole shouting "Stop!"

34 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:01:37am

re: #31 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If one wants a career in politics, it helps to be Fleet of foot.

The enema of my enema is my friend?

35 ladycatnip  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:22am

#12 Shr_Nfr

How come its obstruction of justice when I do not say something true to a federal official, even if I am not under oath, but these clowns get to lie their asses off left and right with impunity?

All depends on which side of the aisle you're on. If you're a conservative, the orders are to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. If you're a liberal, all is needed is, "I don't remember, I don't recall"

36 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:37am

re: #34 Ward Cleaver

The enema of my enema is my friend?

I'm glad you brought that out.

37 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:39am

This is the exact same statements that the Congresscritters made in all the hubbub over the Iraq War in 2005.
"Bush never went to Congress!"
"Okay he did, but he didn't give us enough time to discuss options!"
"Okay, we had several months, but he lied to us about WMDs!"
"Okay we picked that one piece out of the multiple reasons for going to war, but...um...BUSH IS STUPID!"

38 Danny  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:41am

About all that's left now is for Holder and company to reinstate the "Gorelick Wall" and the erasure of the national security lessons of 9-11 will be complete. Can't wait.
/

39 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:43am

Watch Pelosi lie through her teeth.


40 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:51am

re: #34 Ward Cleaver

The enema of my enema is my friend?

ROFL! Great one Ward!

41 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:02:59am

So how did the "paper of record" cover the Porter Goss story?

They didn't.

They had one story back on April 21. It was three-page story called

In Adopting Harsh Tactics, No Look at Past Use

On the very last page of the article, almost the very last paragraph, they finally quote Goss as follows:


By contrast, the ranking Republican on the House committee at the time, Porter J. Goss of Florida, who later served as C.I.A. director, recalls a clear message that the methods would be used.

“We were briefed, and we certainly understood what C.I.A. was doing,” Mr. Goss said in an interview. “Not only was there no objection, there was actually concern about whether the agency was doing enough.”


And the New York still pretends it's newspaper.

42 shiek al beif salami  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:22am

The torture I oppose is when i have to listen to the jack-and-jill-asses in Washington lie to us through their teeth.

43 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:36am

I have a bad feeling we haven't seen anything yet. This is all going to get down and dirty. I don't think Obama really wants that with all he has at stake, but he is so inexperienced, he has no idea the forces he is unleashing and the inevitable backlash. Fasten your seat belts Ladies and Gentlemen.

44 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:38am

re: #35 ladycatnip

#12 Shr_Nfr

All depends on which side of the aisle you're on. If you're a conservative, the orders are to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. If you're a liberal, all is needed is, "I don't remember, I don't recall"

You remind me of the parody Russ did. Try to remember the time in September . . . was the tune.

45 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:40am

Isn't there a vaccine for amnesia? /

46 Biocritic  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:45am

We are in the most irresponsible era of governance in my nearly 60 years of life. Unbelievable.

47 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:03:59am

From that link:
'Trading security for partisan political popularity will ensure that our secrets are not secret and that our intelligence is destined to fail us.'

Excellent way to run the only superpower left - especially as there are no enemies anywhere at all ...
////////////////

48 Buck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:04:21am

There is a real chance they thought water boarding was something done by 'surfer dudes' off the shore of Cuba....

49 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:04:55am

re: #20 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm not nearly so optimistic.

me too, these democrats are sneaky cheats. The far left is not going to let this go away, they want somebody from the Bush administration hanged over this egregious "torture"

50 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:04:56am

re: #44 midwestgak

You remind me of the parody Russ did. Try to remember the time in September . . . was the tune.

I remember that one - a Hilary impersonator singing "I can't remember, my brain's in a blender, it's Jello!"

51 Steve Rogers  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:04:58am

Listen to Pelosi talk is torture to me. So, therefore, by Pelosi's own standards, she should shut the hell up.

52 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:08am

re: #40 realwest

ROFL! Great one Ward!

Thank you!

/takes a dump bow

53 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:11am

re: #23 Nevergiveup

I just don't really understand why these people hate America so much? They can't all be that stupid?

I think in their minds they love America. just not an America that many of us would recognize, other than geographically. In their heart of hearts these leftist Democrats beleive that conservatives/Republicans are the real threat to America. And they act accordingly.

54 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:23am

re: #45 HelloDare

Isn't there a vaccine for amnesia? /

I think it's called a prophylactic.

55 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:25am

re: #4 Ward Cleaver

Busted!


only if someone in the press actuallty takes this on.
Barney Frank has recently told NPR that 'conservatives FORCED people into loans for homes they could not afford. By giving them big incentives and low interest rates.

NPR ate it up.

50% of the people 50% of the time is all it takes

56 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:31am

Hypocrisy? In Congress?

NO EFFIN' WAY.

57 onslow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:41am
58 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:51am

re: #45 HelloDare

Isn't there a vaccine for amnesia? /

Yes, but Jenny McCarthy says it might cause autism.
/

59 FrogMarch  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:52am

This whole episode is a disgrace. The democrats are shameless liars, political hacks and opportunists. When they are not dreaming up new ways to tax us, this is what they do. Play around with our ability to fight. Thanks, assholes. Well, at least the America-hating left is happy. Poor terrorists eternal victims.

What have we gained? The corrupt UN is salivating over the prospect of war crimes trials. Again: thanks, assholes.

The democrats treasure manipulation and political opportunism over the safety of the American people.

60 brookly red  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:05:58am

re: #45 HelloDare

Isn't there a vaccine for amnesia? /

water boarding works well...

61 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:06:08am

re: #39 HelloDare

Watch Pelosi lie through her teeth.

[Video]

And unintentionally blink "L-I-A-R" in Morse Code, over and over.

62 brent  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:06:14am

But Nancy said she never thought the CIA would use those techniques, not ever ever in a million years...

It's disgusting, anyone think they'll be held accountable? I wish I did.

63 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:06:16am

re: #31 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If one wants a career in politics, it helps to be Fleet of foot.

A political career is full of DUTY

64 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:06:34am

re: #28 buzzsawmonkey

You seem to forget that we are no longer a Republic, nor even a democracy. We are living in a hypocracy.

I hope that makes it to the top 10 buzz, so right on.

65 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:06:48am
66 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:06:53am

As I said, this Administration appears at war with the CIA... The CIA is not a place where you want to be a war...

Look what they did against the Bush Administration...

67 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:14am

re: #45 HelloDare

Isn't there a vaccine for amnesia? /

It's called waterboarding. Can we try that on them?

68 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:17am

I think we ought to waterboard Pelosi to get to the bottom of this and find out just what she heard.
/

69 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:19am

It is shameful that such an article as this even needs to be written.

70 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:24am

re: #43 Nevergiveup

I have a bad feeling we haven't seen anything yet. This is all going to get down and dirty. I don't think Obama really wants that with all he has at stake, but he is so inexperienced, he has no idea the forces he is unleashing and the inevitable backlash. Fasten your seat belts Ladies and Gentlemen.

Actually, I already feel like my seat belt is firmly latched, but I want to get out of this handbasket before it reaches its destination.
Unfortunately, I don't know of any interstellar spacecraft I can get to right now.

71 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:27am

re: #34 Ward Cleaver

The enema of my enema is my friend?

Sorry, can't resist posting this:

Benny Hinn's wife and the Holy Ghost Enema

72 formercorpsman  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:46am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Probably true Killgore.

The fact we are even broaching this because of partisan politics is really the heart of the matter despite how one votes though.

This is pure dishonesty, and potentially harmful not only to service morale, but effectiveness also.

Same old, same old. Take it easy, I have to hit the road for the afternoon.

73 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:52am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

This is why I find the prospect of any prosecutions over this very unlikely.

So the Democrats are just doing political posturing now over the interrogations so it'll be quickly forgotten about when the midterm election cycle comes up? All this to placate a certain noisy base of supporters and interests such as the UN to give the illusion of actually doing something. The UN doesn't care if prosecutions occur or not they merely following the orders of their politcal masters in their home countries.

74 Cheesehead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:07:57am

SMS: Selective Memory Syndrome
Democraps seem to have this one down-pat.

75 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:08:02am

The Democrats defense to all this? Goss was a Bush appointee.

They'll insist to their dying day that the GOP and Bush misled them on the interrogations and that they didn't know.

Never mind that the meetings all corroborate Goss and other GOPers present who recount that the Democrats were not only present, but assented and that some present even believed that the interrogations didn't go far enough in being able to wring necessary and critical info from the detainees.

Keep in mind also that we're talking about harsh interrogations on three terrorists - including KSM.

Not every detainee in Gitmo was waterboarded, though that's the feeling you'd get from reading headlines and glancing through the media reports, to say nothing of the political types who want people to think that the CIA was torturing detainees left and right.

Ignore the part that waterboarding and other harsh interrogations was not torture, and the legal memos released showed the lengths to which the CIA went to figure out tactics that didn't engage in torture.

It's indeed an epidemic of amnesia. It's also an epidemic of aloofness and moral relativism that will get people killed.

76 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:08:33am

re: #68 LGoPs

I think we ought to waterboard Pelosi to get to the bottom of this and find out just what she heard.
/


Can't do that. She not supposed to get water on her face. It could crack.

77 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:08:35am

re: #53 LGoPs

I think in their minds they love America. just not an America that many of us would recognize, other than geographically. In their heart of hearts these leftist Democrats beleive that conservatives/Republicans are the real threat to America. And they act accordingly.


I hear what you say, but That is still no excuse for their despicable actions. If they got a problem with me ( a Conservative/Republican), I'm in the phone book.

78 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:08:49am

Politicians frequently behave like they've been given a purgative ... cascara things happen in the dark halls of Congress.

79 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:09:05am

Here's another quote from that link:
'We must not forget: Our intelligence allies overseas view our inability to maintain secrecy as a reason to question our worthiness as a partner. These allies have been vital in almost every capture of a terrorist.'

This is pretty serious.
It took Great Britain and MI5 decades to live down the damage done by Kim Philby et al - the CIA was not impressed, to say the least.

Do the democrats really want the CIA to be shut out from info gathered by other secret services? Or do they think - again - that humint is just crap and hitech is the solution?
Taleban will be very happy with that ...

80 Right mind left  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:09:54am

re: #45 HelloDare

Isn't there a vaccine for amnesia? /

With these Dems it'd be the new Avian Swine Flu (you know, where pigs fly?)

81 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:10:11am

re: #76 HelloDare

Can't do that. She not supposed to get water on her face. It could crack.

We could use Perier water or some other designer water on her......

82 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:10:48am

re: #49 turn

me too, these democrats are sneaky cheats. The far left is not going to let this go away, they want somebody from the Bush administration hanged over this egregious "torture"

I don't know they're any sneakier than anyone else.
I DO believe they're more likely to be blinded by deranged partisanship.

83 SummerSong  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:10:57am

Earthquake Mexico City

[Link: www.rockymounttelegram.com...]

84 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:15am

re: #81 LGoPs

We could use Perier water or some other designer water on her......

Or mix it with Botox.

85 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:16am

re: #83 SummerSong

Earthquake Mexico City

[Link: www.rockymounttelegram.com...]

Just what they need?

86 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:18am

re: #76 HelloDare

Can't do that. She not supposed to get water on her face. It could crack melt.

sorry. had to.

87 Danny  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:27am

re: #68 LGoPs

I think we ought to waterboard Pelosi to get to the bottom of this and find out just what she heard.
/

Likely all you'll get out of her is "I'M MELLLLLTIIING!"

88 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:34am

re: #39 HelloDare

Oh man. I'd love to her say that hooked up to a lie detector, the friggin needle would peg on the BS side. Sneaky, lying cheat

89 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:38am

More good news...

Mexico City just hit with a 6.0 earthquake... Oh yeah, the City is 'infested' with Swine Flu...

90 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:53am
Unfortunately, much of the damage to our capabilities has already been done. It is certainly not trust that is fostered when intelligence officers are told one day "I have your back" only to learn a day later that a knife is being held to it. After the events of this week, morale at the CIA has been shaken to its foundation.

We must not forget: Our intelligence allies overseas view our inability to maintain secrecy as a reason to question our worthiness as a partner. These allies have been vital in almost every capture of a terrorist.

Thank you, Democratic Party!

91 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:11:54am

re: #83 SummerSong

Earthquake Mexico City

[Link: www.rockymounttelegram.com...]

I saw that. On top of the swine flu, now this. Not good. It was "only" 5.8, but in Mexico City, 5.8 could be bad.

92 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:12:29am

re: #87 Danny

Likely all you'll get out of her is "I'M MELLLLLTIIING!"

Image: wwitchwest_pelosi1.jpg

93 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:12:49am

re: #83 SummerSong

Earthquake Mexico City

[Link: www.rockymounttelegram.com...]

Holy crap... those poor people, what's next?!

94 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:12:52am

re: #83 SummerSong

Earthquake Mexico City

[Link: www.rockymounttelegram.com...]

Poor people!
Just goes to show - it never rains but pours ...

95 bolivar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:13:06am

re: #14 midwestgak

I saw a brief clip of a man (looked like a military training exersize) being waterboarded. It was hard to watch the man struggle for air and release from the two men holding him down. I did not see that the man was left toothless. He was not bleeding. No bones were broken. No long-term effects visible.

But it did look EFFECTIVE in scaring the crap out of him.

That is the keyword - and now we have NO WAY to get information from terrorists - absolutely none! This brainless gutless - well don't want to go there as this is a family blog - clown has taken away all the tools that have kept us safe for 7 years. If (and I pray there is not) another attack occurs obama and his clown college will own it lock stock and tomahawk.

96 SummerSong  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:13:33am

re: #85 Nevergiveup

Just what they need?

When it rains, it pours!

97 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:13:35am

re: #85 Nevergiveup

Mag 6 quake, prelim USGS located south of Mexico City, and East of Acupulco..

98 Danny  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:13:35am

re: #92 unrealizedviewpoint

LOL!

99 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:13:36am

re: #83 SummerSong

Earthquake Mexico City

[Link: www.rockymounttelegram.com...]

Wow. Mexico City is taking in on the chin lately.

100 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:05am

re: #75 lawhawk

The Democrats defense to all this? Goss was a Bush appointee.

And Obama was only [fill in blank] years old when this was happening.

101 gregb  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:05am

Higgins: It's simple economics. Today it's oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?
Joe Turner: Ask them?
Higgins: Not now - then! Ask 'em when they're running out. Ask 'em when there's no heat in their homes and they're cold. Ask 'em when their engines stop. Ask 'em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won't want us to ask 'em. They'll just want us to get it for 'em!

103 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:19am

re: #79 yma o hyd

Here's another quote from that link:
'We must not forget: Our intelligence allies overseas view our inability to maintain secrecy as a reason to question our worthiness as a partner. These allies have been vital in almost every capture of a terrorist.'

This is pretty serious.
It took Great Britain and MI5 decades to live down the damage done by Kim Philby et al - the CIA was not impressed, to say the least.

Do the democrats really want the CIA to be shut out from info gathered by other secret services? Or do they think - again - that humint is just crap and hitech is the solution?
Taleban will be very happy with that ...

At the very best, all you can say about Democrats is that they exercise tremendously poor judgement. I happen to think their motivations are more insidious but let's just assume that it's just a dangerously naive outlook.
They shoudl not be put in charge of anything more serious than foam rubber production. Something they can't hurt anyone with.
Create a Ministry of Nerf and let them run it to their hearts content. They truly are children and we are all in peril having put them in charge.

104 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:27am

re: #88 turn

Oh man. I'd love to her say that hooked up to a lie detector, the friggin needle would peg on the BS side. Sneaky, lying cheat


Something like this.

105 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:44am

re: #66 tfc3rid

As I said, this Administration appears at war with the CIA... The CIA is not a place where you want to be a war...

Look what they did against the Bush Administration...

I'm not a big fan of the CIA. They did their best to undermine the Bush Administration and they've been at war with Israel since the State was established. They have continually leaked stories which are untrue but the press runs with them every single time.
The only war they seem to take seriously is their turf war with the FBI.

One of the best things Bush did was to create an office over the CIA for homeland security. He really had no choice though I don't really think creating another bureaucracy solves the problem with that agency.

106 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:45am

re: #83 SummerSong

Earthquake Mexico City

[Link: www.rockymounttelegram.com...]

Gilding the lily. Oh dear.

107 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:14:58am

re: #89 tfc3rid

More good news...

Mexico City just hit with a 6.0 earthquake... Oh yeah, the City is 'infested' with Swine Flu...

I heard someone quip that Obama brought swine flu to Mexico City when he visited because of his extensive wallowing in the porkulous bill.

108 nyc redneck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:14am

these are the people making decisions abt. the safety and well being of our country and they are scurrying like rats now, trying to find cover for themselves, as the bright lights shine on them.
they don't deserve to be in office. they are cowards.

109 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:17am

re: #84 Cygnus

Or mix it with Botox.

I'd be tempted to add a few drops of molecular acid. But that's just me.
/

110 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:21am
111 rumcrook  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:24am

nancy pelosi...... ..........words fail me.

the only things I can manage to say make me sound like I have turrets syndrome

112 pat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:28am

Actually there are press accounts of the briefings going back years. The NYT must be doing a scrub as we read.

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:46am
6.0-6.9 Strong Can be destructive in areas up to about 160 kilometres (100 mi) across in populated areas.

From Wiki...

114 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:15:49am

OT -

"Whoops, sorry about that, folks!"

DOD Photo Op Causes New York City Building Evacuations


The appearance of a plane escorted by two fighter jets in lower Manhattan was part of a "photo op," and not a cause for alarm, a Federal Aviation Administration officials said, but that didn't stop several area buildings from evacuating.

The exercise involved two F-16s escorting President Obama's Air Force One backup plane in the vicinity of Lower Manhattan and the Statue of Liberty, Reuters reported. FAA spokesman Jim Peters told the Wall Street Journal that the maneuver was not an emergency and was coordinated in advance with the FAA and state and local officials.

115 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:11am

Good news.....
Obama promises major investment in science

"I believe it is not in our character, American character, to follow -- but to lead. And it is time for us to lead once again. I am here today to set this goal: we will devote more than 3 percent of our GDP to research and development," Obama said in a speech at the annual meeting of the National Academy of Sciences.
...
Obama said the investments he is proposing would lead to breakthroughs, such as solar cells as cheap as paint and green buildings that produce all the energy they consume.

The pursuit of discovery a half century ago fueled the nation's prosperity and success, Obama told the academy.

"The commitment I am making today will fuel our success for another 50 years," he said. "This work begins with an historic commitment to basic science and applied research."

He set forth a wish list for the future including "learning software as effective as a personal tutor; prosthetics so advanced that you could play the piano again; an expansion of the frontiers of human knowledge about ourselves and world the around us.


Science!

116 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:15am

I think it is still only April and Yankees fans, like me, should calm down, but talk radio in NYC is ready to fire half the team. It could get nasty.

117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:19am

re: #109 LGoPs

Lots of sinister sauce too.

118 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:25am

At the time, Pelosi didn't think waterboarding was a big deal. Certainly, she'd seen much harsher treatment acted out as entertainment during one of the S&M themed Democratic fundraising parties in San Fransisco.

119 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:46am

re: #76 HelloDare

Can't do that. She not supposed to get water on her face. It could crack.

Melt.

120 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:50am

re: #111 rumcrook

nancy pelosi...... ..........words fail me.

the only things I can manage to say make me sound like I have turrets syndrome

You have permission to fire as she bears.

;-)

121 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:16:56am

re: #93 Occasional Reader

Holy crap... those poor people, what's next?!

Drug wars, flu epidemic, earthquakes - a country that on paper should be a wonderful place: two tropical oceanfronts, abundant natural resources, people who do want to work hard for a better life (even if they come here to do so), but the place is one more disaster away from being Somalia with Dos Equis.

122 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:17:01am

re: #102 Honorary Yooper

Magnitude 6.0, epicenter is Guerreo, Mexico, approximately 145 miles south of Mexico City.

Oh, whew. That's pretty far away to do more than rock and roll a bit in the city.

123 JustABill  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:17:16am

re: #91 Ward Cleaver

I saw that. On top of the swine flu, now this. Not good. It was "only" 5.8, but in Mexico City, 5.8 could be bad.

Your right, theres no real bedrock in Mexico City. The city is built on silt...

124 Cygnus  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:17:39am

re: #118 Kenneth

At the time, Pelosi didn't think waterboarding was a big deal. Certainly, she'd seen much harsher treatment acted out as entertainment during one of the S&M themed Democratic fundraising parties in San Fransisco.

Or at the Folsom Street Fair.

125 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:17:50am

re: #76 HelloDare

the face or the water?

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:17:52am

re: #123 JustABill

Your right, theres no real bedrock in Mexico City. The city is built on silt...

SF was built on Rock and Roll.

127 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:18:05am

re: #76 HelloDare

Can't do that. She not supposed to get water on her face. It could crack.

No, she'd melt.

128 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:18:08am

re: #121 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

a country that on paper should be a wonderful place

Except for those vampire-infested biker bars.

129 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:18:22am

re: #116 Nevergiveup

I think it is still only April and Yankees fans, like me, should calm down, but talk radio in NYC is ready to fire half the team. It could get nasty.

Well, that's ok, my team is done...

130 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:18:39am

CNN:

Magnitude 6.0 earthquake reported 50 miles northeast of Acapulco, Mexico, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

When it rains it pours

131 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:18:42am

re: #103 LGoPs

Its a feature of the LLL mindset to see the world as they want it to be - not as it really is.
Another is to attach blame only to their political opponents - not to the real perpetrators of crimes, such as suicide bombings.

Yep, they should get their own playground government - but kept well away from real power and from departments and insitutions who have to deal with the real world - and who have, more often than not, got to deal with the wreckage any LLL goverment has left behind.

132 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:18:56am

re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Magnitude is helpful with figuring out the power of an earthquake, but one must remember intensity is how such a quake is felt on the surface. Intensity can vary due to differing geological environments. A large earthquake can produce minimal intensity felt at the surface while a smaller earthquake make knock down tall building built on lakebed sediments.

133 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:19:00am

I'm trying to get "El Universal" from Mexico City to open... it's not. Los hamsters must be getting hammered.

134 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:19:11am

re: #122 Russkilitlover

Oh, whew. That's pretty far away to do more than rock and roll a bit in the city.

Pretty deep, too (25.6mi). Not so good if you live near Chilpancingo, 20mi. from the epicenter. Or in Acapulco (50mi.).

135 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:19:12am

re: #123 JustABill

Your right, theres no real bedrock in Mexico City. The city is built on silt...

Liquifaction. It's not just for San Francisco anymore.

136 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:19:14am

re: #111 rumcrook

nancy pelosi...... ..........words fail me.

the only things I can manage to say make me sound like I have turrets syndrome

You sound like a battleship?

137 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:19:25am

re: #108 nyc redneck
This

these are the people making decisions abt. the safety and well being of our country and they are scurrying like rats now, trying to find cover for themselves, as the bright lights shine on them.
they don't deserve to be in office. they are cowards.

was extremely well said. Let's hope that they are only cowards. But I think that 8 years of BDS has THEM deranged as well as cowardly.

138 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:19:36am

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Not to denigrate the idea itself, but this is boilerplate. Presidents from both sides of the aisle have been doing this genuflection for decades.

139 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:19:50am

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

SF was built on Rock and Roll.

No Jefferson Starship!

/shoot me!

140 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:20:23am

re: #139 Ward Cleaver

Ain't that the worst song of all?

141 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:20:24am
142 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:20:25am

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Good news.....
Obama promises major investment in science


Science!

Whose money does he intend to spend?
Tax dollars or tax credits for expenditures?
I'll bet direct govt spending.
*spit*

143 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:20:33am

re: #123 JustABill

Your right, theres no real bedrock in Mexico City. The city is built on silt...

It's built on an ancient lakebed.

144 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:20:54am

re: #128 Occasional Reader

Except for those vampire-infested biker bars.

And the hitmen with guitar cases and the hitmen with CO2 tanks and silenced 12 gauges. And the cursed pistols being hunted by Brad Pitt and Gene Hackman.

145 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:08am

re: #137 realwest

was extremely well said. Let's hope that they are only cowards. But I think that 8 years of BDS has THEM deranged as well as cowardly.

Well, I am sure they believe they are going to 'right the wrongs' of the past 8 years... They belived that Civil Rights were trod upon, so they are going to make people pay for that...

146 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:08am

re: #140 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ain't that the worst song of all?

Definitely a shark-jumper.

147 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:11am

re: #142 unrealizedviewpoint

Yes, it will be government spending.

148 JohnnyReb  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:19am

re: #121 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Drug wars, flu epidemic, earthquakes - a country that on paper should be a wonderful place: two tropical oceanfronts, abundant natural resources, people who do want to work hard for a better life (even if they come here to do so), but the place is one more disaster away from being Somalia with Dos Equis.

They have enough untapped oil reserves to fully fund the entire government of their country for the next 50 years, but they chose not to exploit it. Instead they nationalized it and look what happened.

We are in the same boat here in the US.

149 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:19am

Tax the unborn and spend with money as yet unprinted.
What could be easier?

150 Gearhead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:24am
It must be hard for most Americans of common sense to imagine how a member of Congress can forget being told about the interrogations...

Among politicians especially, forgetting is a voluntary, not involuntary, act.

...aided by journalists who provide covering fire.

151 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:39am

re: #101 gregb

Higgins: It's simple economics. Today it's oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?
Joe Turner: Ask them?
Higgins: Not now - then! Ask 'em when they're running out. Ask 'em when there's no heat in their homes and they're cold. Ask 'em when their engines stop. Ask 'em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won't want us to ask 'em. They'll just want us to get it for 'em!

Interesting anecdote about that movie; it was one of the few Hollywood releases at the time that the Kremlin okay'ed to be shown in the USSR. They figured it was "on message" for them, since it showed evil CIA imperialism, etc. Instead, the reactoin of the average Soviet subject was to ogle in amazement at freedom that allowed such a movie to be made in the West... "imagine if we tried to do that movie here, with the KGB as the villains!"

152 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:47am

Can you imagine what some at the CIA ans State department think of our new President? After his snafu at the democratic debate, he used the example of Nixon going to China as an example of successful face-to-face diplomacy without preconditions. He didn't know that everything was worked out before Nixon got on the plane. He also used the example of the Kennedy-Khrushchev Conference, which Kennedy admitted was a complete disaster.

153 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:47am

re: #136 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You sound like a battleship?

We have big-guns another pun thread?

154 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:51am

re: #115 Killgore Trout

'... prosthetics so advanced that you could play the piano again; ...' - and a national, government-run health service so that nobody will ever get such prosthetics.

Jam tomorrow, always jam tomorrow - never jam today ...

155 JustABill  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:53am

re: #120 subsailor68

You have permission to fire as she bears.

;-)

pray she doesn't bear all.

156 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:54am

re: #129 tfc3rid

Well, that's ok, my team is done...

Well I'm in no position to gloat. With the Yankees, it's not just that they lost 3 straight to the hated Red Sox, but how they did it.

157 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:21:55am
158 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:22:22am

re: #122 Russkilitlover

Oh, whew. That's pretty far away to do more than rock and roll a bit in the city.

Not necessarily. Remember, a lot of Mexico City is built on lakebed sediments. In 1985, a magnitude 8.1 earthquake had an epicenter approximately 200 miles away in the same location as this magnitude 6.0 earthquake today. Due to the fact the Mexico City is built on lakebed sediments, the quake was felt very strongly in Mexico City itself.

159 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:22:28am

re: #121 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Drug wars, flu epidemic, earthquakes - a country that on paper should be a wonderful place: two tropical oceanfronts, abundant natural resources, people who do want to work hard for a better life (even if they come here to do so), but the place is one more disaster away from being Somalia with Dos Equis.

And Bohemia.

160 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:22:44am

re: #128 Occasional Reader

Except for those vampire-infested biker bars.

If the vampires all looked like Salma Hayek, that might not be so bad. Though they could just as easily look like Cheech Marin.

161 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:22:52am

Democrats rounded up.....

5 US Lawmakers Arrested At Sudan Embassy In Darfur Protest

Washington police arrested five members of Congress Monday during a protest outside the Sudanese embassy over the humanitarian crisis in Sudan's Darfur region.

Organizers said the five, who included Democratic Rep. John Lewis, a veteran of the civil rights movement, were arrested on charges of civil disobedience after refusing a police order to disperse.

The protesters called on the government of Sudanese President Omar al-Beshir to reverse a recent decision to expel international humanitarian groups from Darfur and end what they called his use of starvation as a weapon of war.

"President Beshir has a choice," said another Democratic lawmaker, Jim McGovern, before the group was arrested.

"He can choose to let the humanitarian groups return, he can choose to end the violence and the killing, and he can choose serious negotiations for a just and lasting peace, or he can continue to commit crimes against humanity," McGovern said.

The others arrested were Reps. Donna Edwards, Keith Ellison and Lynn Woolsey, all Democrats.


It would have been nice to see a few Reps on that list.

162 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:23:00am

re: #156 Nevergiveup

Well I'm in no position to gloat. With the Yankees, it's not just that they lost 3 straight to the hated Red Sox, but how they did it.

Oh it was pretty bad... Any desire for 2 Mets-Marlins tix tonight or tomorrow?

163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:23:00am

re: #139 Ward Cleaver

No Jefferson Starship!

/shoot me!

Sorry. Here's a little ear bleach.

164 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:23:22am

re: #140 Fat Bastard Vegetarian Now why would you say that? I actually LIKED that song!

165 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:23:26am

re: #144 ConservatismNow!

And the hitmen with guitar cases and the hitmen with CO2 tanks and silenced 12 gauges. And the cursed pistols being hunted by Brad Pitt and Gene Hackman.

Or the man eating vines that occupy the ruins.

166 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:24:03am

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Democrats rounded up.....

5 US Lawmakers Arrested At Sudan Embassy In Darfur Protest


It would have been nice to see a few Reps on that list.

Keep 'em!

Ellison's an RoPer; he should be happy there.

167 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:24:10am

re: #164 realwest

Okaaaaaay.

168 Fluffy Bunny  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:24:34am

Kudos to Mr. Goss for speaking out and reminding the lying SOB's that the CIA knows who knew what and when they knew it.

Douchebag Pelosi would do well to remember that this agency will never forget this betrayal and that this is also the agency that, God forbid, anything should happen to any of our congresscritters, would be responsible for gathering the intelligence to save their sorry asses.

169 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:24:52am

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Democrats rounded up.....

5 US Lawmakers Arrested At Sudan Embassy In Darfur Protest


It would have been nice to see a few Reps on that list.

Who organized the protest? Surely if it were a big-time left wing group, no GOP Reps. would be part of it...

170 Erik The Red  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:24:59am

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Democrats rounded up.....

5 US Lawmakers Arrested At Sudan Embassy In Darfur Protest


It would have been nice to see a few Reps on that list.

Maybe there were some there but left when the police told them to.

171 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:25:08am

re: #166 Ward Cleaver

from the end of the article....

"We know President Obama and members of his administration care passionately about ending the Darfur crisis and promoting peace in Sudan," Fowler said.

"As President Obama nears his 100th day in office this week, he can demonstrate that Sudan is a strategic priority for the United States by committing to build a multilateral coalition for peace and investing in the diplomacy necessary to achieve an equitable and lasting solution for Darfuris and all Sudanese," he said.


Lol

172 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:25:37am

re: #143 Ward Cleaver

It's built on an ancient lakebed.

And thus, Mexico City is highly vulnerable to earthquakes located even 200 miles away (as in 1985).

173 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:25:38am

re: #135 Russkilitlover

I always wonder what would happen to Boston in a quake. The last one they had of note was in the early 1700s, but there are some deep faults under the area. A lot of Boston is built on pumped in mud. When they did the Big Pig, the only way that they were able to tunnel through it was to run some cryogenic lines around the area that they were going to tunnel through and freeze it solid. All of Back Bay was a Bay. The Boston Common used to be on the edge of the shore on the neck to Shawmut Peninsula. I could see some of those large buildings coming down really easily if something nasty hit.

When they were sinking piles for the construction of the new Federal courthouse, they did it by just vibrating the pile. It slipped into the mud at inches per second.

174 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:25:41am

re: #123 JustABill

Your right, theres no real bedrock in Mexico City. The city is built on silt...

Best way to describe Mexico City during a quake is to imagine it sitting on a bowl of Jello. The shaking gets magnified, and lesser quakes can do significant damage.

175 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:25:58am

re: #169 tfc3rid

Who organized the protest? Surely if it were a big-time left wing group, no GOP Reps. would be part of it...

I'm on every Sudanese list there is, and I heard nothing about this.

176 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:26:12am

Somali Pirates: Yemen Nabs the Crowd that Grabbed the Yememi Tanker Qana


Yemen Navy deployed several of the Austal 37.5 mtr fast patrol boats... and surrounded the Qana just north of the IRTC, there was a stand off for 1 hour then 11 pirates put their hands up and gave up – The Yemen Navy made it very clear – release or we are storming the ship and you will all die – they gave them 10 minutes to decide.

Where did the Yemenis learn to do that?


Training for the Yemenis has been provided by the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard.
177 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:26:25am

re: #163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry. Here's a little ear bleach.

I'd rather hear this one.

178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:26:28am

re: #173 Shr_Nfr

Well. That sounds sturdy.

179 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:26:42am

Marines Prepare for War in an Afghan Village in North Carolina

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Ya just hope these real heroes don't get hurt by the insane democratic reversion back to pre 9/11!

180 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:26:44am

re: #158 Honorary Yooper

Not necessarily. Remember, a lot of Mexico City is built on lakebed sediments. In 1985, a magnitude 8.1 earthquake had an epicenter approximately 200 miles away in the same location as this magnitude 6.0 earthquake today. Due to the fact the Mexico City is built on lakebed sediments, the quake was felt very strongly in Mexico City itself.

You're right. I forgot the soil conditions of Mexico City. The ground can turn to soup pretty fast with liquifaction - ask folks in the Marina district of SF.

181 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:26:55am

re: #160 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

If the vampires all looked like Salma Hayek, that might not be so bad. Though they could just as easily look like Cheech Marin.


cheech wasn't a vampire, he worked the dawn til dusk shift as a hawker.

182 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:27:02am

re: #147 Killgore Trout

Yes, it will be government spending.

This is not govt's role - last I check the Constitution.

183 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:27:25am

re: #169 tfc3rid I don't remember any Republicans being opposed to toppling that regime, but of course that would be regime change by force and we can't have that now!

184 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:27:31am

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Democrats rounded up.....

5 US Lawmakers Arrested At Sudan Embassy In Darfur Protest


It would have been nice to see a few Reps on that list.

I'm sorry, US Congressional representatives protesting outside a frickking embassy is a joke. Nothing more than a joke. Helllooo? Guys? YOU'RE THE PARTY IN POWER, remember? If you want to actually "do something about Darfur", you can. This looks more like a cheap political stunt, and an excuse for doing nothing.

185 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:27:52am

re: #181 Eowyn2

cheech wasn't a vampire, he worked the dawn til dusk shift as a hawker.

Better a pet than food.

186 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:28:02am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

I'm sorry, US Congressional representatives protesting outside a frickking embassy is a joke. Nothing more than a joke. Helllooo? Guys? YOU'RE THE PARTY IN POWER, remember? If you want to actually "do something about Darfur", you can. This looks more like a cheap political stunt, and an excuse for doing nothing.

Exactly!

187 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:28:42am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

I'm sorry, US Congressional representatives protesting outside a frickking embassy is a joke. Nothing more than a joke. Helllooo? Guys? YOU'RE THE PARTY IN POWER, remember? If you want to actually "do something about Darfur", you can. This looks more like a cheap political stunt, and an excuse for doing nothing.

Like send more unicorns?

/

188 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:28:42am

re: #169 tfc3rid

Who organized the protest? Surely if it were a big-time left wing group, no GOP Reps. would be part of it...

John Lewis from Gerogia was one, so I would venture to guess the rest were also members of the Congressional Black Cuacus

189 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:28:53am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

I'm sorry, US Congressional representatives protesting outside a frickking embassy is a joke. Nothing more than a joke. Helllooo? Guys? YOU'RE THE PARTY IN POWER, remember? If you want to actually "do something about Darfur", you can. This looks more like a cheap political stunt, and an excuse for doing nothing.

Nobody's really done anything about Sudan, and that hell has been going on since at least 1986, when I got involved.

Personally, I'm tired of drama.

190 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:29:27am

re: #176 Kenneth

Somali Pirates: Yemen Nabs the Crowd that Grabbed the Yememi Tanker Qana

Unpossible! There is no military solution to piracy! Or to anything! Everyone knows that.

191 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:29:28am

re: #166 Ward Cleaver

McGovern was my Congresstool for years. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

192 MacDuff  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:29:49am

There's always someone who decides that someone has to be the adult. Obviously, Porter Goss is that man. Good on 'im.

193 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:29:56am

re: #142 unrealizedviewpoint

Whose money does he intend to spend?
Tax dollars or tax credits for expenditures?
I'll bet direct govt spending.
*spit*

It will be grant money to the politically correct.

194 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:29:57am

re: #182 unrealizedviewpoint

Nonenense. Was the Apollo program unconstitutional? One of the biggest problems conservatives are having these days revolve around misunderstanding the Constitution. The Tea Parties are an embarrassing display of this phenomenon.

195 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:01am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

I'm sorry, US Congressional representatives protesting outside a frickking embassy is a joke. Nothing more than a joke. Helllooo? Guys? YOU'RE THE PARTY IN POWER, remember? If you want to actually "do something about Darfur", you can. This looks more like a cheap political stunt, and an excuse for doing nothing.

They heard they could get some good Gangaweed there.

/sorry, it's janjaweed

196 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:06am

re: #189 Dianna

Nobody's really done anything about Sudan, and that hell has been going on since at least 1986, when I got involved.

Personally, I'm tired of drama.

Well, they won't get attention from ER since it's off the air now... SOMEONE needs to give it attention...

This and the atrocity in Rwanda during the Clinton Administration are disgusting... Diplomacy is a joke in these matters.

197 nyc redneck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:14am

how much longer can the fcking libs be fooled by a such an inept moron who can't even say hello w/ out a teleprompter?

rush was just making fun of o when the prompter sabotaged him today.
i bet o has a grudge against the prompter. you know he takes it personally.
it sounded like o was getting very impatient w/ it when he barked out, 'move up, move up.'

lol, that's what happens when you don't have a coherent thought in your own
head. the prompter is your boss.

198 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:19am

re: #189 Dianna

and that hell has been going on since at least 1986, when I got involved.

A-HA! So it's Dianna's fault!

199 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:24am

re: #184 Occasional Reader
So much better said than my #183.

200 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:28am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

If you want to actually "do something about Darfur", you can.


heh. Good point.

201 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:44am

re: #191 Lincolntf

McGovern was my Congresstool for years. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

They got McGovern, too? Whatta dope.

202 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:30:53am

re: #173 Shr_Nfr

I can tell you that the fill in the Back Bay will be very vulnerable to liquifaction in the event of a moderate to strong earthquake.

203 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:04am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

It's ALWAYS the Tea Parties, Killgore. We know, we know...

204 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:06am
205 Gearhead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:08am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

This looks more like a cheap political stunt, and an excuse for doing nothing.

Kind of like attending an intelligence briefing and then swearing in front of the cameras that you were never told a thing?

It's all about the votes.

206 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:15am

re: #187 Ward Cleaver

Like send more unicorns?

/

Ironically, unicorns would have survived if they had been vaccinated for Hoof and Horn Disease. Take that Jenny McCarthy.

207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:26am

re: #177 Ward Cleaver

Hope you were serious. I think Marty Balin was great. Mickey Thomas had one of the greatest high notes in all pop music. Song? "Jane".

But, "We Built this City" was truly awful.

208 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:44am

re: #198 Occasional Reader

A-HA! So it's Dianna's fault!

I figure pretty much everything is.

209 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:31:49am

Israel paused Monday night to mourn its fallen soldiers, as the nation marked Remembrance Day and honored the memory of those who lost their lives in defense of the state.

A one-minute air-raid siren wailed across the country at 8 p.m. Monday night, followed by ceremonies in memory of fallen soldiers and the victims of terror attacks across the country.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

We should pause for 2 minutes here in Honor of our Military that have fallen in defense of this Country!

210 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:32:05am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Nonenense. Was the Apollo program unconstitutional? One of the biggest problems conservatives are having these days revolve around misunderstanding the Constitution. The Tea Parties are an embarrassing display of this phenomenon.

Dude... Again, the tea parties are what they are... People are fed up out there and want to speak out... 'We' Conservatives don't have protests like the Dems with their hate groups... This was an opportunity for them to get out there and actually feel as if they were standing up for their belief system... Give it a break.

211 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:32:09am

re: #205 Gearhead

Kind of like attending an intelligence briefing and then swearing in front of the cameras that you were never told a thing?

It's all about the votes images on TV.

FTFY!

212 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:32:11am

re: #197 nyc redneck

how much longer can the fcking libs be fooled by a such an inept moron who can't even say hello w/ out a teleprompter?

rush was just making fun of o when the prompter sabotaged him today.
i bet o has a grudge against the prompter. you know he takes it personally.
it sounded like o was getting very impatient w/ it when he barked out, 'move up, move up.'

lol, that's what happens when you don't have a coherent thought in your own
head. the prompter is your boss.

I heard today on the radio that Obama's new dog will have a teleprompter too. Bark, bark......arf, arf.

213 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:33:06am

re: #203 Lincolntf

It's ALWAYS the Tea Parties, Killgore. We know, we know...

That,, and Ron Paul, Christian Scientists, and the Knights Templar!

214 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:33:07am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

It's a stunt to allow the Democrats the ability to claim that they're doing something about Darfur without actually doing anything.

Democrats and Obama both have said that they want to stop the mess in Darfur. Well, they're in charge and the GOP doesn't have the numbers to stop them. If they wanted to send in a MEU to Darfur and drop a million tons of ordnance on Khartoum to drive out the thug in charge, they could do so.

Instead, they talk and do nothing while the misery continues. They do nothing as the butchers' bill increases.

Democrats love to claim that they're morally superior to others because of their desire to help their fellow man and because they respect human rights. They'll keep spouting that nonsense as Darfurians die by the truckload because no one actually does anything.

Worst of all is that these same Democrats will claim that they can't act unless some GOPer signs off on the issue (just as they claimed during the porkfest and budget fiascos), when reality is that no such crossover was necessary. They want the political cover, but don't need it. They don't want to own the problem, but by their inaction they not only prove they're not worthy to have the power, but they own it by their inaction.

215 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:33:07am

re: #204 buzzsawmonkey

Excellent.

216 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:33:20am

re: #212 LGoPs

I heard today on the radio that Obama's new dog will have a teleprompter too. Bark, bark......arf, arf.

That gaffe was pretty funny... Of course, if it were the previous President, it would just be another sign of his mental deficiency...

217 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:34:10am

re: #208 Dianna

I figure pretty much everything is.

I figure you'd be a pretty good match for the Janjaweed militia.

"Ha, she is but a weak woman! And an infidel at that! She couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-"

218 Rexatosis  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:34:10am

Pres. Obama will play the "Waterboarding is torture" and "we need to know who's responsible" right up until an actual trial would be held then AG Holder will squash it. There is no way the Dems, if they are not completely insane, will go so far as to indict any Republicans over this because they are just as "guilty" and if the Bush White House goes down over this so does the Senior Democratic Congressional Leadership. The Murthas and Conyers maybe play well to the nutroots but there is no way Harmon, Feinstein and the others are going to throw themselves to the wolves over "torturing" some AQ types.

219 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:34:41am

re: #88 turn

Oh man. I'd love to her say that hooked up to a lie detector, the friggin needle would peg on the BS side. Sneaky, lying cheat

New energy source. Democratic deceit.

220 Mr Chompers  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:34:57am

Mr Obama played golf and had a few libations...
while al-Qaedas had a few enhanced interrogations...
Remember the nutters gave Bush a hard time about playing golf?

221 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:34:59am

King Abdullah: Israel faces all-out war in 18 months if there is no Palestinian state.

The Jordanian monarch held out the chance for Israel to make peace with 57 countries that do not recognize Israel today. “Look, Israel, if you solve the Palestinian problem, if you allow us to solve the problems of Jerusalem, we all want to have peace with you.”

He warned that if Israel does not deal with the Arab demands over Jerusalem within the next 18 months, “there will be another conflict between Israel and another protagonist. He charged that outside interference, meaning the U.S., is a requirement to force a peace agreement.

The "Palestinian problem" means that all the Palestinian "refugees" are supposed to go back to Israel. And "the problems of Jerusalem" probably means one problem for every Jew in Jerusalem.

And this from a country that signed a peace treaty with Israel.
What is this with the time limit? Does this mean they expect Iran to have a bomb in 18 months?
And Abdullah knows where Obama is coming from:

“America is providing a new image of what and how things should be done. And I think that the world has a belief in the president, a lot of faith in what he has to say. Obviously the pressure on the president is to deliver,” he added.
222 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:03am

re: #209 Nevergiveup

Israel paused Monday night to mourn its fallen soldiers, as the nation marked Remembrance Day and honored the memory of those who lost their lives in defense of the state.

A one-minute air-raid siren wailed across the country at 8 p.m. Monday night, followed by ceremonies in memory of fallen soldiers and the victims of terror attacks across the country.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

We should pause for 2 minutes here in Honor of our Military that have fallen in defense of this Country!

I doubt that there is any air-raid sirens left in Europe. There certainly are none in Germany.

223 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:05am

re: #209 Nevergiveup

Israel paused Monday night to mourn its fallen soldiers, as the nation marked Remembrance Day and honored the memory of those who lost their lives in defense of the state.

A one-minute air-raid siren wailed across the country at 8 p.m. Monday night, followed by ceremonies in memory of fallen soldiers and the victims of terror attacks across the country.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

We should pause for 2 minutes here in Honor of our Military that have fallen in defense of this Country!

Two minutes silence at 11 a.m. on Nov 11th, here in the UK - and then Remembrance Sunday (the Sunday closest to 11/11, with parade by down Whitehall, laying of wreaths at the Cenotaph ...
I thought you had something like that as well in the USA?

224 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:12am

Swine flu virus may cause global pandemic: UN chief

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Bon Ki-moon is it? Why don't ya get a real job!

225 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:16am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Nonenense. Was the Apollo program unconstitutional? One of the biggest problems conservatives are having these days revolve around misunderstanding the Constitution. The Tea Parties are an embarrassing display of this phenomenon.

GAZE

226 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:20am

re: #190 Occasional Reader

An "expert" advised against arming ships to fight off pirates, saying it would only "escalate the violence".

Fighting back seems to have had the opposite effect in this instance. Funny that.

227 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:23am

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hope you were serious. I think Marty Balin was great. Mickey Thomas had one of the greatest high notes in all pop music. Song? "Jane".

But, "We Built this City" was truly awful.

I was serious. I like "Miracles", and just about everything else on Red Octopus. I can't stand most songs that celebrate rock 'n roll. Most are too self-congratulatory.

228 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:35:25am

re: #217 Occasional Reader

I figure you'd be a pretty good match for the Janjaweed militia.

"Ha, she is but a weak woman! And an infidel at that! She couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-"

I wish. I really, really wish.

I will not pin people to walls and lecture them about Sudan. Promise.

229 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:36:27am

Lunch. And going to investigate the unusual number of police sirens I'm hearing, from the direction of the White House.

230 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:36:35am

re: #220 Mr Chompers

Mr Obama played golf and had a few libations...
while al-Qaedas had a few enhanced interrogations...
Remember the nutters gave Bush a hard time about playing golf?

No, actually, I don't. They gave him grief about everything else, though, so maybe it got lost in all the rest of it.

231 funky chicken  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:36:42am

Franklin Graham's Samaritan's Purse has been on the ground in Sudan for 20 years or so. They ran the only hospital in southern Sudan for many years. Their facility was routinely harassed from the air by government forces.

Franklin Graham also has medical missionaries in Jordan, and wrote movingly of his experience walking along the mountainous border of Turkey and Iraq after Gulf War I when the Kurds were huddling in misery under hostile Turkish eyes.

After 9/11, Graham said something quite fair and informed about Islam, for which he was thrown under the bus by GW Bush and replaced by Ted "Gilderoy Lockhart" Haggard.

feh

But if anybody here wants to "do something" about/for Sudanese, I highly recommend donating to Samaritan's Purse. They actually "do something" concrete for people over there.

232 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:36:50am

re: #214 lawhawk I really wonder what the problem is that the Dem's have with this? I mean do you really think that they won't do anything without political cover?
I believe it's much more simple than that: they don't really give a damn about the issue, but they do want to appear to give a damn about it.

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:37:01am

re: #227 Ward Cleaver

I was serious. I like "Miracles", and just about everything else on Red Octopus. I can't stand most songs that celebrate rock 'n roll. Most are too self-congratulatory.

Really?

234 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:37:10am

re: #229 Occasional Reader

Lunch. And going to investigate the unusual number of police sirens I'm hearing, from the direction of the White House.

WAB having a hissy fit again?

235 Gearhead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:37:15am

re: #219 HelloDare

New energy source. Democratic deceit.

AHA! Wind turbines in the Senate and House chambers!

236 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:37:23am

re: #196 tfc3rid

Well, they won't get attention from ER since it's off the air now... SOMEONE needs to give it attention...

This and the atrocity in Rwanda during the Clinton Administration are disgusting... Diplomacy is a joke in these matters.

The problem with these genocides, is the only way to stop it is
to actually do what the US was falsely accused of in Iraq. You have to
invade the country, take control of the government, and enforce martial
law. Since there are a lot of "bad guys", tribal retaliations and affiliations, once you do leave, it will revert to the present tribal
faction violence. There is no easy answer.

237 Mad Mullah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:37:32am

What's wrong with Nancy Pelosi's eyes? I think that the nonstop blinking in her case is probably a sign that she is a habitual liar, because she is certainly full of crap, with all of her ridiculous lies. That woman is beyond creepy.

238 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:37:47am

re: #223 yma o hyd

Two minutes silence at 11 a.m. on Nov 11th, here in the UK - and then Remembrance Sunday (the Sunday closest to 11/11, with parade by down Whitehall, laying of wreaths at the Cenotaph ...
I thought you had something like that as well in the USA?

Ceremonies in Washington/Arlington and elsewhere, but no real National Moment of silence and reflection. In Israel EVERYTHING stops. People stop their cars and get out.

239 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:08am

re: #218 Rexatosis

I hope you're right, and you may very well be. But occasionally these things take on a life of their own. The Dems might just be dumb enough to walk right off the cliff.
That's why Obama should have stuck with his no prosecution position. Leaving the door open is an unnecessary idiocy that was done solely for political reasons.

240 funky chicken  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:15am

re: #176 Kenneth

Hey, the lads just needed a little bit of retraining. I'm sure they now understand that they shouldn't capture Yemeni ships any more.

241 lobo91  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:33am

re: #179 Nevergiveup

Marines Prepare for War in an Afghan Village in North Carolina

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Ya just hope these real heroes don't get hurt by the insane democratic reversion back to pre 9/11!

That's very similar to the type of training the Army's been conducting since about 2003 for Iraq.

My unit's piece of it is a week-long capstone exercise for the brigade and battalion staffs, using scenarios that are based on actual incidents that have taken place in the area where the units are going.

We're preparing to switch over to training for Afghanistan now.

242 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:35am

Israels Naval War Against Iran... ?

Last month Israel supposedly sunk an Iranian arms ship off the Sudan intended to deliver weapons just south of Egypt, which is apparently widely accepted as a practice that Iran has been involved in getting weapons into Gaza. The attack, which supposedly sunk a ship that has no name, has never been confirmed even as the attack on the ground in Sudan of a convoy has been confirmed.

We now have word that someone has sunk a second ship in the same area. The ship is supposedly Iranian and the location is off the Sudan in the Red Sea.

243 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:37am

re: #218 Rexatosis

But putting it out there and having the 'evidence' available is wnough for the UN and International Court or some other Bush hating judges internationally to possibly indict...

244 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:40am

re: #238 Nevergiveup

Ceremonies in Washington/Arlington and elsewhere, but no real National Moment of silence and reflection. In Israel EVERYTHING stops. People stop their cars and get out.

Yes. We were leaving Israel that day, and even the security screening at Ben Gurion stopped. (And that meant all the passengers stopped as well.)

245 reggie  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:45am

"Amnesia"
"My recollection"
Hey, Porter- Is this style emblamatic of how the enhanced techniques were presented to the Congressional Torture committee? Just come out and say it- "they're lying".

246 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:46am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Nonenense. Was the Apollo program unconstitutional? One of the biggest problems conservatives are having these days revolve around misunderstanding the Constitution. The Tea Parties are an embarrassing display of this phenomenon.

To elaborate on your Apollo program and constitutionality, it was not not the right that wanted to shut it down, it was the socialistic left. They whined, and still continue to whine to this very day, that NASA takes away money they'd rather spend on welfare. You set up a strawman with that, Killgore.

247 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:38:55am

re: #224 Nevergiveup

Swine flu virus may cause global pandemic: UN chief

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Bon Ki-moon is it? Why don't ya get a real job!

Gee, maybe if Iran were the cause of Swin Flu, Bon Ki-moonbat would do something.

248 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:39:25am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

This is why I find the prospect of any prosecutions over this very unlikely.

Indeed. Not only is there testimony from those present emerging from every quarter - there are also the inevitable meeting minutes stashed away somewhere, just waiting to see the light of day. It won't matter if those claiming lapses of memory sat in silence; the records will show that they attended a meeting where the details in question were clearly presented.

I suppose they could claim that they slept through the meetings. Not exactly a robust defense, and one with it's own fallout.

249 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:39:32am

re: #223 yma o hyd

Two minutes silence at 11 a.m. on Nov 11th, here in the UK - and then Remembrance Sunday (the Sunday closest to 11/11, with parade by down Whitehall, laying of wreaths at the Cenotaph ...
I thought you had something like that as well in the USA?

We do {yma} it's called going to sales at department stores.
/

250 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:39:52am

re: #222 callahan23

I doubt that there is any air-raid sirens left in Europe. There certainly are none in Germany.

I'm a bit suprised. They make great tornado sirens. We have them throughout the Midwest and the South.

251 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:40:02am

re: #235 Gearhead

AHA! Wind turbines in the Senate and House chambers!

Strap a wind turbine to Murtha's ass.

252 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:40:16am

re: #231 funky chicken

Also check out I-Abolish.

There are a number of other organizations, some anti-slavery, some specifically aimed at regime change in Sudan.

253 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:40:18am

re: #223 yma o hyd

Two minutes silence at 11 a.m. on Nov 11th, here in the UK - and then Remembrance Sunday (the Sunday closest to 11/11, with parade by down Whitehall, laying of wreaths at the Cenotaph ...
I thought you had something like that as well in the USA?

No, we just barbeque.

Honoring our county's founding = barbeque
Honoring our military's fallen = barbeque

Oh, and the stores have sales.

254 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:40:30am
255 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:40:38am

re: #221 Kosh's Shadow

King Abdullah: Israel faces all-out war in 18 months if there is no Palestinian state.

I suggest Mr Abdullah separate a piece of Jordan into a new country for the Palestinians and quit his bitching ....

256 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:40:41am

re: #173 Shr_Nfr

Here's a little animation showing just how much of Boston and some of the surrounding towns are built on landfill. It's pretty impressive.

I didn't realize that there were fault lines running through Boston, although it doesn't surprise me. Earthquakes in America aren't limited to California. Most Americans probably don't know that the biggest earthquake in American history may have occurred in Missouri.

And landfill certainly isn't good in earthquakes. In the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake in California, much of the worst property damage occurred 60 miles from the epicenter, in the Marina District of San Francisco, which was built on landfill.

257 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:41:06am

re: #232 realwest

I really wonder what the problem is that the Dem's have with this? I mean do you really think that they won't do anything without political cover?
I believe it's much more simple than that: they don't really give a damn about the issue, but they do want to appear to give a damn about it.


It's just like every nation squawking over the detainees at Guantanamo. The mantra lasted up until the detainees were actually released and then nobody wanted them in their country.

258 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:41:32am

re: #238 Nevergiveup

Ceremonies in Washington/Arlington and elsewhere, but no real National Moment of silence and reflection. In Israel EVERYTHING stops. People stop their cars and get out.

Same here, on 11/11 - well, not the cars stopping, but everybody else does stop. Even and especialy in the big supermarkets and shopping malls.
Oh - and the British legion, who looks after ex-servicemen and their families, sells poppies to stick on one's lapel, for weeks before that date.
Nobody, even on TV, is seen without wearing their poppy.
The money goes to help those ex-servicemen and their families.

259 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:42:21am

re: #152 HelloDare

Can you imagine what some at the CIA ans State department think of our new President? After his snafu at the democratic debate, he used the example of Nixon going to China as an example of successful face-to-face diplomacy without preconditions. He didn't know that everything was worked out before Nixon got on the plane. He also used the example of the Kennedy-Khrushchev Conference, which Kennedy admitted was a complete disaster.

Don't know what the CIA thinks of Obama but State loves him.
Diplomats believe that problems can be solved with diplomacy which is precisely what Obama thinks as well.

260 Gearhead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:43:08am

re: #251 HelloDare

Strap a wind turbine to Murtha's ass.

Flatulence Farms! Energy independence just got one idea closer.

261 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:43:35am

re: #260 Gearhead

Flatulence Farms! .

Who run Bartertown?

262 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:43:44am

re: #258 yma o hyd

Same here, on 11/11 - well, not the cars stopping, but everybody else does stop. Even and especialy in the big supermarkets and shopping malls.
Oh - and the British legion, who looks after ex-servicemen and their families, sells poppies to stick on one's lapel, for weeks before that date.
Nobody, even on TV, is seen without wearing their poppy.
The money goes to help those ex-servicemen and their families.

The veterans' groups sell poppies around what used to be Armistice day and Memorial Day. But I admit, I only see them in small towns now, like where I live, not in Boston. And yes, I do buy them.

263 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:43:47am

re: #255 eschew_obfuscation

I suggest Mr Abdullah separate a piece of Jordan into a new country for the Palestinians and quit his bitching ....

The next time Syria wants to take it over, maybe Israel will not be there to rescue them? Yeah I know, they will. Sigh.

264 livefreeor die  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:43:48am

re: #168 Fluffy Bunny

Kudos to Mr. Goss for speaking out and reminding the lying SOB's that the CIA knows who knew what and when they knew it.

Douchebag Pelosi would do well to remember that this agency will never forget this betrayal and that this is also the agency that, God forbid, anything should happen to any of our congresscritters, would be responsible for gathering the intelligence to save their sorry asses.

If I ran the CIA, I'd have a couple of agents going over every inch of Pelosi's life with a fine tooth comb.

265 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:43:56am

re: #232 realwest

I suppose it's probably a combination of both. They're too timid to use the military to further their supposed aims and goals, but want to appear that they're doing something. So they do the most useless thing they can think of that will still count: protest in front of the consulate.

Only thing more useless? Demand a written letter to Sudan via the UN.

266 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:03am

re: #246 Honorary Yooper

To elaborate on your Apollo program and constitutionality, it was not not the right that wanted to shut it down, it was the socialistic left. They whined, and still continue to whine to this very day, that NASA takes away money they'd rather spend on welfare. You set up a strawman with that, Killgore.

My point wasn't about which side hates space exploration. Programs like Nasa, the Apollo program and Obama's science budget are not unconstitutional. That would require a court ruling. You might not like them but the courts rule on what's constitutional and what's not. A lot of people get this confused.

267 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:04am

re: #259 MJ

Don't know what the CIA thinks of Obama but State loves him.
Diplomats believe that problems can be solved with diplomacy which is precisely what Obama thinks as well.

And they both hate Israel.

268 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #242 Kenneth

Israels Naval War Against Iran... ?

No way was that the Israelis - this are the really baaad pirates from Somalia, to be sure!

;-)

269 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:24am

re: #216 tfc3rid

That gaffe was pretty funny... Of course, if it were the previous President, it would just be another sign of his mental deficiency...

Obama can't waste his time memorizing names & speeches - he has a world to save, dammit!

270 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:34am

re: #221 Josh's Shadow

"The Jordanian monarch held out the chance for Israel to make peace with (the Heinz) 57 countries varieties that do not recognize Israel today."

271 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:44am

re: #258 yma o hyd

Same here, on 11/11 - well, not the cars stopping, but everybody else does stop. Even and especialy in the big supermarkets and shopping malls.
Oh - and the British legion, who looks after ex-servicemen and their families, sells poppies to stick on one's lapel, for weeks before that date.
Nobody, even on TV, is seen without wearing their poppy.
The money goes to help those ex-servicemen and their families.

We really don't Honor our dead and wounded enough. At least that is how I feel.

272 realwest  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:56am

Gotta run y'all - have a great day and I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road.

273 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:44:58am

re: #261 Guanxi88

Who run Bartertown?

274 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:45:12am

re: #264 livefreeor die

If I ran the CIA, I'd have a couple of agents going over every inch of Pelosi's life with a fine tooth comb.

Best way to get rid of lice.

275 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:45:20am
276 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:45:31am

re: #242 Kenneth

Israels Naval War Against Iran... ?

Maybe it was this neat piece of technology. Dolphin class submarine.

277 livefreeor die  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:45:41am

re: #274 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Best way to get rid of lice.

Good precaution if she's been to the Folsom Street Fair recently.

278 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:45:56am

You know guys, I'm absolutely amazed at the decision making - or lack thereof - by this administration, and members of Congress. The "torture" memo issue, the run for cover strategy, these moron congress people in Sudan, the Swine Flu statements, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

The decision to conduct the fly-over in NYC (whether it came from the DoD, the administration, the Department of the Air Force - whatever) is symptomatic of what appears to me to be a complete lack of common sense.

I mean, who'd have thought flying a 747 surrounded by F16's around the Statue of Liberty was a good idea? And, according to this story although the FAA informed the NYPD beforehand,

The NYPD told CBS 2, however, that they were instructed by the FAA not to publicize information regarding the incident.

WTF? Didn't anyone at the NYPD say "ya know, if we aren't supposed to let the public know what's going on, this could make some folks real nervous."

No, really?

279 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:46:00am

re: #268 yma o hyd

No way was that the Israelis - this are the really baaad pirates from Somalia, to be sure!

;-)

Israel has several submarines (from Germany, actually), so they could sink these ships and no one would know (except those countries with extensive antisubmarine capability, and I doubt even the Russians would bother saying anything)

280 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:46:16am

re: #254 buzzsawmonkey

It's Lack-of-Re-Morse Code.

I think her blinking should be analyzed. Like Jeremiah Denton, who blinked "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" on camera, while being held by the North Vietnamese. Maybe she unconsciously blinks "L-I-A-R", like I suggested above. Her conscience betraying her.

281 Orangutan  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:47:11am

With every step, this reminds me of the seeds of the 1980 campaign. There were these great commercials where someone depicting Tip O'Neill was riding in the back of the car....which had run out of gas.

Democrats giving control over to their Congress - having no real executive strength, nor backbone.....could be a tipping point. Pelosi is perfect.

282 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:47:35am

re: #280 Ward Cleaver

I think her blinking should be analyzed. Like Jeremiah Denton, who blinked "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" on camera, while being held by the North Vietnamese. Maybe she unconsciously blinks "L-I-A-R", like I suggested above. Her conscience betraying her.

Nah. You are reading too much into it. It's just the fumes coming off her makeup.

283 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:47:49am

re: #278 subsailor68

Was it a 747, or just an auxiliary Air Force Plane also painted in Air Force One colors?

284 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:47:53am

re: #279 Kosh's Shadow

Israel has several submarines (from Germany, actually), so they could sink these ships and no one would know (except those countries with extensive antisubmarine capability, and I doubt even the Russians would bother saying anything)

See my:
re: #276 callahan23

GMTA

285 pittrader1988  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:47:58am

Speaking of amnesia, who the heck authorized a fly by in NYC this morning.
It was a duplicate of Air Force 1, with a trailing F-16!

Sheesh. The hubris and idiocy of the people in power. For security reasons, they didn't inform the public! Just like lots of things these days. I am thinking of the B of A fight, the secrecy of the TARP, the stress test.

286 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:48:04am

re: #262 Kosh's Shadow

The veterans' groups sell poppies around what used to be Armistice day and Memorial Day. But I admit, I only see them in small towns now, like where I live, not in Boston. And yes, I do buy them.

Its a really big deal here, Remembrance Sunday parade in London shown on TV - and in all towns and cities, people stick little crosses with poppies round the War Memorials and lay poppy wreaths.
Its become more poignant and much better attended across the country now that so many of our lads have been and are still fighting and dying.

287 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:48:07am

re: #282 ConservatismNow!

Nah. You are reading too much into it. It's just the fumes coming off her makeup.

Maybe she's blinking, "B-O-N-D-O".

288 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:48:45am

re: #256 Last Mohican

[Link: geology.about.com...]

It was a little later than I remembered, I had placed it mentally around 1730. The fault lines are very deep, so there is very little real seismic activity around, but it does happen. Way back when I was a smoker, I only smoked in my "office" in the basement. I remember being down there and having a magnitude 4.5 hit. Nothing of course happened to anyone but it was still interesting.

Fortunately, it looks like Mexico City got off with only a good scare. There are no reports of things falling apart. The big major quake they had previously unearthed a lot of below spec building practices. It looks like they have cleaned up their act thankfully.

289 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:48:57am

re: #264 livefreeor die

If I ran the CIA, I'd have a couple of agents going over every inch of Pelosi's life with a fine tooth comb.

The CIA is expressly forbidden to operate on United States territory when it comes to gathering intelligence. In particular, they are constrained from spying on US citizens. Should the need arise, they must turn their investigation over to the FBI.

There are exceptions, but investigating a seated representative would be way the hell over the line.

Besides, I doubt they'd find anything interesting, from their perspective. Most of her sins would turn out to be political in nature - moral and ethical lapses, not legal ones. The best investigation would be one conducted by a journalist dedicated to digging out hypocritical statements and outright lies told during her career.

290 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:49:03am

re: #283 Nevergiveup

Was it a 747, or just an auxiliary Air Force Plane also painted in Air Force One colors?

According to the story, it was:

Some military aircraft flying over lower Manhattan, including a Boeing 747 from the Air Force One fleet, caused a brief scare for residents, workers, and pedestrians on Monday,

291 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:49:06am

re: #278 subsailor68

.

The decision to conduct the fly-over in NYC (whether it came from the DoD, the administration, the Department of the Air Force - whatever) is symptomatic of what appears to me to be a complete lack of common sense.

I mean, who'd have thought flying a 747 surrounded by F16's around the Statue of Liberty was a good idea? And, according to this story although the FAA informed the NYPD beforehand,

The NYPD told CBS 2, however, that they were instructed by the FAA not to publicize information regarding the incident.

WTF? Didn't anyone at the NYPD say "ya know, if we aren't supposed to let the public know what's going on, this could make some folks real nervous."

No, really?

And it was done for a publicity photo!

292 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:49:45am

re: #278 subsailor68

I mean, who'd have thought flying a 747 surrounded by F16's around the Statue of Liberty was a good idea? And, according to this story although the FAA informed the NYPD beforehand,

I think people on the ground would have been less afraid if they saw a B-52, B-1B, or a B-2 flying overhead instead of the 747 for the photo-op.

293 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:50:33am

re: #291 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And it was done for a publicity photo!

Hi BDVM! Yep. That's the real kicker to the whole damn thing. It's moronic on so many levels!

294 bolivar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:50:36am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Nonenense. Was the Apollo program unconstitutional? One of the biggest problems conservatives are having these days revolve around misunderstanding the Constitution. The Tea Parties are an embarrassing display of this phenomenon.

Ok, I know I am going to regret this but why are the teaparties an embarrassment? Just to get it out in the open for those of us who think you are full of shit.....not to say anything you didn't already know.

295 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:50:38am

re: #259 MJ

Don't know what the CIA thinks of Obama but State loves him.
Diplomats believe that problems can be solved with diplomacy which is precisely what Obama thinks as well.

No everybody at State. Can't be. He came back from his trip to Europe with nothing. Not more troops for Afghanistan. Not money for troops. They didn't spend more on a stimulus package like he wanted them to. Didn't get them to take any of our prisoners. I forget the whole list. The trip was a dud.

296 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:50:38am

re: #291 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And it was done for a publicity photo!

I hope nobody suffered injuries, like broken ankles, in the evacuation.

297 livefreeor die  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:50:41am

re: #289 SixDegrees

The CIA is expressly forbidden to operate on United States territory when it comes to gathering intelligence. In particular, they are constrained from spying on US citizens. Should the need arise, they must turn their investigation over to the FBI.

There are exceptions, but investigating a seated representative would be way the hell over the line.

Besides, I doubt they'd find anything interesting, from their perspective. Most of her sins would turn out to be political in nature - moral and ethical lapses, not legal ones. The best investigation would be one conducted by a journalist dedicated to digging out hypocritical statements and outright lies told during her career.

If only such a journalist existed.

298 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:50:54am

re: #216 tfc3rid

That gaffe was pretty funny... Of course, if it were the previous President, it would just be another sign of his mental deficiency...

It was actually a joke. But funny anyway.

299 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:50:56am

re: #287 Ward Cleaver

Maybe she's blinking, "B-O-N-D-O".

In Nancy's case, it'd be spelled "fibberglass".

300 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:51:02am

re: #271 Nevergiveup

We really don't Honor our dead and wounded enough. At least that is how I feel.

Believe it or not, all state offices in Georgia are closed today in honor of Confederate Memorial Day. If I'm not mistaken, it coincides with Jefferson Davis's birthday.

301 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:51:18am

re: #292 Idle Drifter

I think people on the ground would have been less afraid if they saw a B-52, B-1B, or a B-2 flying overhead instead of the 747 for the photo-op.

A large plane like a 747 would bring back memories of 9/11. It was irresponsible, IMHO, to do the photo op. It's also a waste of fuel.

302 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:51:37am

re: #250 Honorary Yooper

Air-raid sirens have definitely been removed after the collapse of the iron-curtain in Germany. None left.

303 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:51:41am

re: #283 Nevergiveup

Was it a 747, or just an auxiliary Air Force Plane also painted in Air Force One colors?

It was the backup AF1. There are two aircraft; if the President is on board, then one is Air Force 1. If not, there are other call signs.

304 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:51:54am

re: #301 Honorary Yooper

A large plane like a 747 would bring back memories of 9/11. It was irresponsible, IMHO, to do the photo op. It's also a waste of fuel.

THEY'RE KILLING THE PLANET!

305 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:52:06am

re: #292 Idle Drifter

Yeah. Must've been nice to wake up in NYC and read about a freakin' swine flu epidemic and then look out the window and see a 747 cruising at building height. Might as well go right back to bed and say screw it.

306 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:52:13am

re: #288 Shr_Nfr

[Link: geology.about.com...]

Way back when I was a smoker, I only smoked in my "office" in the basement. I remember being down there and having a magnitude 4.5 hit. Nothing of course happened to anyone but it was still interesting.

Living in So Cal, I get twitchy in parking structures, on or under an overpass, in tall buildings or even next to a brick building. And don't get me started on basements! To me they are just furnished tombs!

307 nikis-knight  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:52:26am

re: #175 Dianna

I'm on every Sudanese list there is, and I heard nothing about this.

It's not surprising if republicans were simply not informed of the protest.

308 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:52:29am

re: #290 subsailor68

Just didn't look like a 747 in the picture, but it was far away, so maybe

309 livefreeor die  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:52:52am

re: #292 Idle Drifter

I think people on the ground would have been less afraid if they saw a B-52, B-1B, or a B-2 flying overhead instead of the 747 for the photo-op.


Why would a 747 from the Air Force One fleet be needed for a DofD photo-op? And if it was absolutely necessary for the photographer's "vision", let me introduce them to Photoshop.

310 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:52:58am

re: #276 callahan23

Maybe it was this neat piece of technology. Dolphin class submarine.

So Israel has Jewfins?

311 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:14am

re: #292 Idle Drifter

I think people on the ground would have been less afraid if they saw a B-52, B-1B, or a B-2 flying overhead instead of the 747 for the photo-op.

They probably would have been less scared if it was a Russian Bear bomber.

Personally, I'd be scared if it was an aircraft with, say "Pakistan Taliban Airlines" on the side.

312 Gearhead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:14am

re: #291 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And it was done for a publicity photo!

"Hmmm. Do we Photoshop it, or do we scare the living s--t out of millions of people? POTUS is a lot harder job than I thought."

313 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:27am

re: #302 callahan23

Air-raid sirens have definitely been removed after the collapse of the iron-curtain in Germany. None left.

Hey callahan! Does Germany not have tornadoes? No sirens at all?

314 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:41am

RE: the 747 cruising around buildings in NYC

Are we sure it was a drill, or perhaps it was doing a low fly to pick up a pastery chef to bring to the White House!

///

315 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:43am

re: #276 callahan23

Maybe it was this neat piece of technology. Dolphin class submarine.

Tough little ship.

"little"? /worf

316 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:52am

re: #300 doppelganglander

I was wrong. In Georgia, Alabama, Florida and Mississippi, it's held on the last Monday in April to coincide with General Johnston's surrender to General Sherman in 1865. Kentucky, Louisiana and Tennessee celebrate in early June, to coincide with Jefferson Davis's birthday.

317 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:55am

re: #286 yma o hyd

I always go up to the Vet selling them and ask if I could have the honor to buy one, and then stuff a reasonable sized bill in their can. And yes I live in Barney Frank the horse's butt's district. I say honor to buy one because it is an honor to be in the presence of most of these people that served.

318 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:53:58am

re: #303 Kosh's Shadow

It was the backup AF1. There are two aircraft; if the President is on board, then one is Air Force 1. If not, there are other call signs.

One for the POTUS & one for the TOTUS?

319 nikis-knight  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:54:00am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Nonenense. Was the Apollo program unconstitutional? One of the biggest problems conservatives are having these days revolve around misunderstanding the Constitution. The Tea Parties are an embarrassing display of this phenomenon.

Those weren't about the constitutionality of the Obama tax & borrow & spending, but the wisdom of them.

320 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:54:20am

re: #309 livefreeor die

Why would a 747 from the Air Force One fleet be needed for a DofD photo-op? And if it was absolutely necessary for the photographer's "vision", let me introduce them to Photoshop.

Returning veterans becoming a right-wing threat? Shooting down Air Force One?

/working the dhs memo in there

321 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:54:49am

re: #291 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Did they buy carbon credits before they did it?

322 itellu3times  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:01am

re: #214 lawhawk

Democrats and Obama both have said that they want to stop the mess in Darfur. Well, they're in charge and the GOP doesn't have the numbers to stop them. If they wanted to send in a MEU to Darfur and drop a million tons of ordnance on Khartoum to drive out the thug in charge, they could do so.

Instead, they talk and do nothing while the misery continues. They do nothing as the butchers' bill increases.

Wanting is enough.

Wanting is their achievement.

Only you neocons think that actual action, should follow. Cowboys.

Wanting ... and maybe talking.

The talking is so people know that you want and are thus meritorious.

Doing ... is dirty. Eww, doing.

323 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:15am
324 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:29am

re: #292 Idle Drifter

I think people on the ground would have been less afraid if they saw a B-52, B-1B, or a B-2 flying overhead instead of the 747 for the photo-op.

Actually, a couple of F-16s a few years back did rattle nerves here. They were flying CAP and got down lower than usual.

Here, they flew VC-25 (aka Air Force 1 without the President on board) with fighter escort doing photos for what I figure will be a USAF commercial ad campaign. Scared a few folks and caused some panic. Should have been handled better than it was.

325 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:37am

re: #314 sattv4u2

RE: the 747 cruising around buildings in NYC

Are we sure it was a drill, or perhaps it was doing a low fly to pick up a pastery chef to bring to the White House!

///

I question the timing. How do we know this wasn't an attempt to get folk to lower their guards so that the zion-con reptilian NWO can fly their next remote-controlled airliner into another building, to cover their tracks as the other aircraft spray the mind-control chem-trails:
///
From Jones' site, if you dare: [Link: www.prisonplanet.com...]

326 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:48am

re: #295 HelloDare

No everybody at State. Can't be. He came back from his trip to Europe with nothing. Not more troops for Afghanistan. Not money for troops. They didn't spend more on a stimulus package like he wanted them to. Didn't get them to take any of our prisoners. I forget the whole list. The trip was a dud.

You're dealing in reality. Obama and Hillary Clinton deal in fantasy.

It's the is/ought question. State wants things as they "ought" to be.
That's why we're still in the idiotic UN and just joined that antisemitic Human Rights Council.

327 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:48am

While I'm livid about this "photo op" deal with the backup Air Force One unit, I can't help it..gotta go with it:

"Manhattan residents evacuated several buildings Monday after seeing Air Force One circling the city. However, after CBS-2 news reported that Obama was not on board, everyone let out a sigh of relief and returned to their offices."

328 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:55am
329 Gearhead  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:55:55am

Bye, folks. Gotta go make some more taxes for Barack and Nancy!

330 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:56:39am

re: #307 nikis-knight

It's not surprising if republicans were simply not informed of the protest.

I find it astonishing that I heard nothing at all. My politics have never mattered before!

331 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:57:07am

re: #325 Guanxi88

I question the timing. How do we know this wasn't an attempt to get folk to lower their guards so that the zion-con reptilian NWO can fly their next remote-controlled airliner into another building, to cover their tracks as the other aircraft spray the mind-control chem-trails:
///
From Jones' site, if you dare: [Link: www.prisonplanet.com...]

They're dropping fairy dust!

332 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:57:08am

re: #255 eschew_obfuscation

I suggest Mr Abdullah separate a piece of Jordan into a new country for the Palestinians and quit his bitching ....

Well, I believe that Jordan's position has always been that they were more than hospitable in accepting Palestinian refugees into their country. Despite the fact that the Jordanian army slaughtered thousands of non-Jordanian Palestinian civilians in "Black September" 1970 alone. But whatever, that's what they say.

333 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:57:34am

re: #329 Gearhead

Bye, folks. Gotta go make some more taxes for Barack and Nancy!

In a related area, I wonder whether and how I could get a job as a tax farmer for Emperor Obama? It was quite profitable in the past, and seems to be a good niche to get into, if you can get in early enough.

334 nikis-knight  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:57:40am

re: #236 NonNativeTexan

The problem with these genocides, is the only way to stop it is
to actually do what the US was falsely accused of in Iraq. You have to
invade the country, take control of the government, and enforce martial
law. Since there are a lot of "bad guys", tribal retaliations and affiliations, once you do leave, it will revert to the present tribal
faction violence. There is no easy answer.


What about bumper stickers and academy award speeches?

335 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:57:43am

re: #313 midwestgak

Hey callahan! Does Germany not have tornadoes? No sirens at all?

Extremely few and weak ones only. Bad weather warnings are transmitted by radio and such. No sirens, I am afraid.
Dinner is ready. BBL

336 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:58:03am

re: #331 Ward Cleaver

They're dropping fairy dust!

From the way some folk over their carry on, I'd swear it was angel dust.

337 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:58:23am

I just find it funny that any warning about the AF1 publicity shot wasn't made public. Think about the irony...

338 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:58:42am

re: #259 MJ

Granted, Obama is obviously making a lot of people at State happy.

The real views of many in Obama administration were laid bare by a State Department official involved in planning the Brown visit, who reacted with fury when questioned by The Sunday Telegraph about why the event was so low-key.

The official dismissed any notion of the special relationship, saying: "There's nothing special about Britain. You're just the same as the other 190 countries in the world. You shouldn't expect special treatment."

339 jorline  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:58:51am

Italian ship captain: Israeli security officers drove Somali pirates away.

Domenico Pellegrino, head of the Italian cruise line, said Msc hired the Israelis because they were the best trained security agents, the ANSA news agency reported.

I heard this morning that all Italian ships now have armed Israeli security officers on board...anyone else hear that?

340 tfc3rid  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:59:36am

re: #298 LGoPs

It was actually a joke. But funny anyway.

It did not sound like a joke when I heard it live...

341 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:59:44am

This reminds me of Watergate.

342 nikis-knight  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:59:52am

re: #266 Killgore Trout

My point wasn't about which side hates space exploration. Programs like Nasa, the Apollo program and Obama's science budget are not unconstitutional. That would require a court ruling. You might not like them but the courts rule on what's constitutional and what's not. A lot of people get this confused .

Legally, this is so. That doesn't mean that they can't be wrong logically.

343 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:59:53am

re: #332 Last Mohican

Well, I believe that Jordan's position has always been that they were more than hospitable in accepting Palestinian refugees into their country. Despite the fact that the Jordanian army slaughtered thousands of non-Jordanian Palestinian civilians in "Black September" 1970 alone. But whatever, that's what they say.

And Lebanon is just as bad. Going on about how badly Israel treats Palestinians while they keep theirs in camps unable to own businesses or hold jobs, much less become citizens.

344 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:59:57am

re: #337 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I just find it funny that any warning about the AF1 publicity shot wasn't made public. Think about the irony...

ROFLMAO! Now that's absolutely perfect! Well done sir!

345 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:00:07am

re: #339 jorline

Italian ship captain: Israeli security officers drove Somali pirates away.

I heard this morning that all Italian ships now have armed Israeli security officers on board...anyone else hear that?

I've got this vision in my head of their conversations over dinner. If you filmed and muted it, it would look a lot like a sign-language version of tourettes, I daresay. Lotta gesticulation in both cultures' communication styles.

346 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:00:25am

re: #336 Guanxi88

From the way some folk over their carry on, I'd swear it was angel dust.

Attack the whack! Attack the whack!
/Avenging Disco Godfather

347 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:00:44am

re: #317 Shr_Nfr

I always go up to the Vet selling them and ask if I could have the honor to buy one, and then stuff a reasonable sized bill in their can. And yes I live in Barney Frank the horse's butt's district. I say honor to buy one because it is an honor to be in the presence of most of these people that served.

You're so right - it is an honour.
Speaking to some of the veterans of WWII, I have difficulties not to cry all over them.

348 livefreeor die  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:00:49am

re: #339 jorline

Italian ship captain: Israeli security officers drove Somali pirates away.


I heard this morning that all Italian ships now have armed Israeli security officers on board...anyone else hear that?

If I wanted security, next up for me, after our own men and women in uniform, would be Israeli officers.

349 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:01:25am

re: #250 Honorary Yooper

I'm a bit suprised. They make great tornado sirens. We have them throughout the Midwest and the South.

When I was a kid, schools had "air raid drills." Now they have tornado drills.

350 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:02:04am

re: #339 jorline

Italian ship captain: Israeli security officers drove Somali pirates away.

I heard this morning that all Italian ships now have armed Israeli security officers on board...anyone else hear that?

Well the foods probably good and that is important to most Israelis I know.
/ actually pretty true

351 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:02:29am

re: #349 Alouette

When I was a kid, schools had "air raid drills." Now they have tornado drills.

That brings up a question I've had for years now. What happens when you have a fire during a tornado drill?

352 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:02:38am

re: #21 simonml

Princess Unicorn?

Couldn't resist

you'll poke your eye out!

353 quickjustice  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:03:11am

I always liked Goss. He never succeeded in rooting out the partisan Democrat operatives within CIA however, who were leaking information damaging to the Bush Administration. We now know that Valerie Plame's excreble husband was a liar.

354 nikis-knight  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:03:35am

re: #330 Dianna

I find it astonishing that I heard nothing at all. My politics have never mattered before!


I mean, it doesn't have to be underhanded; it could be a spur of the moment, "lets drag our friends over to the embassy and really show those jerks" kind of thing, and no republican lawmakers (who believed in the efficacy of such an act) happened to be among their friends.
I don't know, just saying that doesn't surprise me to see no R's at a D stunt. (Not that it isn't a stunt in a good cause, of course)

355 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:03:48am

re: #330 Dianna

I find it astonishing that I heard nothing at all. My politics have never mattered before!

That's they key word right there.

356 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:03:49am

re: #348 livefreeor die

If these cruise ship owners are doing this, it is bad news for the pirates. No more sitting ducks for them to pluck. My guess is ALL vessels operating in dangerous waters will have to start hiring security and/or training and arming the crews...one or the other. The oceans are awful big and it is too hard for navies to patrol everywhere all at once.

357 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:04:02am

re: #348 livefreeor die

If I wanted security, next up for me, after our own men and women in uniform, would be Israeli officers.

I vote for Ziva David!

358 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:04:06am

re: #351 ConservatismNow!

That brings up a question I've had for years now. What happens when you have a fire during a tornado drill?

You go outside, to the nearest ditch of low-lying area and get down.

359 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:04:25am

re: #345 Guanxi88

I've got this vision in my head of their conversations over dinner. If you filmed and muted it, it would look a lot like a sign-language version of tourettes, I daresay. Lotta gesticulation in both cultures' communication styles.

And the difference between a Jewish Mother and an Italian mother:
Jewish mother: Eat, or I'll kill myself.
Italian mother: Eat, or I'll kill you.

360 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:04:26am

re: #358 Honorary Yooper

You go outside, to the nearest ditch of or low-lying area and get down.

PIMF

361 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:04:56am

re: #339 jorline

Italian ship captain: Israeli security officers drove Somali pirates away.

I heard this morning that all Italian ships now have armed Israeli security officers on board...anyone else hear that?

Dunno about all of them - but here is what the managing director of that cruise company said:

'Domenico Pellegrino, the managing director of MSC, confirmed that the ship was protected by Israeli security guards. “We use them because they are the best — and we have just had a demonstration of that,” he said.'

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

362 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:05:23am

re: #339 jorline

Italian ship captain: Israeli security officers drove Somali pirates away.

I heard this morning that all Italian ships now have armed Israeli security officers on board...anyone else hear that?

Wait! I thought Tony Soprano said to the Orthodox Jewish character after that character tells Tony that the Jews defeated the Romans and that there are no more Romans, and Tony's response is "But we ARE the Romans"

The Jewish character was right after all....

363 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:05:29am

Last update - 20:01 27/04/2009

Abbas: I won't recognize Israel as a Jewish state

By Yoav Stern and Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent and News Agencies

Tags: Israel News, Abbas


Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas dismissed on Monday calls by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, an issue emerging as a main obstacle to peacemaking.


[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

On Israel's Memorial Day? Class act you terrorist scum Abbas.

364 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:05:47am

re: #359 Kosh's Shadow

And the difference between a Jewish Mother and an Italian mother:
Jewish mother: Eat, or I'll kill myself.
Italian mother: Eat, or I'll kill you.

And here's the book, should their kids ever meet up:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

365 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:05:52am

re: #349 Alouette

When I was a kid, schools had "air raid drills." Now they have tornado drills.

Our scool was too poor to afford a real siren, so anytime we had to have one of those drills Sister Mary Ignacious would hit Jimmy "Big Lungs" Veach upside the head with her trangular solid wooden ruler.
His yepling cleared the school in minutes

366 Idle Drifter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:06:14am

re: #324 lawhawk

Actually, a couple of F-16s a few years back did rattle nerves here. They were flying CAP and got down lower than usual.

Here, they flew VC-25 (aka Air Force 1 without the President on board) with fighter escort doing photos for what I figure will be a USAF commercial ad campaign. Scared a few folks and caused some panic. Should have been handled better than it was.

I don't know how much noise anyone could have done without killing budgets to let a city the size of New York know it's a photo-op. Panic is contagious.

367 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:06:25am

re: #356 Desert Dog

If these cruise ship owners are doing this, it is bad news for the pirates. No more sitting ducks for them to pluck. My guess is ALL vessels operating in dangerous waters will have to start hiring security and/or training and arming the crews...one or the other. The oceans are awful big and it is too hard for navies to patrol everywhere all at once.

But for the Life of me I don't understand why they are in that part of the world?

368 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:06:30am

re: #351 ConservatismNow!

That brings up a question I've had for years now. What happens when you have a fire during a tornado drill?

Combine them into a fire whirl drill.

369 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:07:01am

re: #368 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Combine them into a fire whirl drill.

OOH! pretty!

370 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:07:26am

re: #367 Nevergiveup

But for the Life of me I don't understand why they are in that part of the world?

It's too long to go the other way, that's why.

371 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:07:44am

re: #359 Kosh's Shadow

And the difference between a Jewish Mother and an Italian mother:
Jewish mother: Eat, or I'll kill myself.
Italian mother: Eat, or I'll kill you.

Palestinian mother: Eat, or I won't let you kill yourself.

372 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:08:00am

re: #326 MJ

You're dealing in reality. Obama and Hillary Clinton deal in fantasy.

It's the is/ought question. State wants things as they "ought" to be.
That's why we're still in the idiotic UN and just joined that antisemitic Human Rights Council.

Granted. But the State Department is not monolithic. There's got to be quite a few career people who are very upset by what's going on. Plus, even if you agree 100% with Obama and Hillalry, what's happened in the last few months has been embarrassing. The botched gifts -- not once but three times. Obama's moonbat statements about nuclear disarmament. From what I read, European leaders thought he was naive. Plus as I mentioned earlier, he came back with virtually nothing from his trip to Europe.

I agree that many are living in the fantasy of their ideology and the facts of Obama's failures will not matter one bit. We agree on that.

373 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:08:19am

re: #370 Guanxi88

It's too long to go the other way, that's why.

From where to where to be off the coast of Somalia?

374 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:08:33am

OT Schwarzenegger speaking about swine flu in CA.

Also, Pontiac brand to be dropped.

375 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:08:37am

re: #368 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Combine them into a fire whirl drill.

Living here in tornado alley, I've always had that nagging thought in the back of my mind. I suppose if I was here at work I could go jump into the river.

376 JohnnyReb  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:08:40am

re: #351 ConservatismNow!

That brings up a question I've had for years now. What happens when you have a fire during a tornado drill?

Or how about an air raid that causes a fire during a tornado drill?

377 Raven1  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:08:49am

Besides the epidemic of amnesia, when we have the swine flu epidemic make the rounds of the USA, I expect Janet Napolitano to quarantine Canada instead of Mexico. Hey, that is the liberal approach to problems.

378 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:09:38am

re: #367 Nevergiveup

But for the Life of me I don't understand why they are in that part of the world?

Aside from the pirate problem the coast around South Africa and out to Madagascar is an amazing place to take a voyage.

379 redmonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:09:45am

There is very simple test. Show all democrats in congress movie Taken and ask them what they would do in similar situation? Would they do everetnig posible to save own kid(including torture) or not? I wish I could see their faces and listen to their responds.

380 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:09:50am

re: #367 Nevergiveup

But for the Life of me I don't understand why they are in that part of the world?

The Red Sea has been a cruise area for many years. My parent took a cruise out of Cyprus years ago. They went through the Suez canal. Stopped at Djibouti (said it was a hell-hole, even back then), then went on to Kenya and then to the Maldives and Seychelles Island. It ended up in India. They loved it. Somalia was not the basket case it is now though.

381 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:09:58am

re: #288 Shr_Nfr

Interesting. The USGS also describes it as the Cape Ann earthquake. And the USGS lists something called the "Newburyport liquefaction features." One of the more interesting ways to look into that (or fault information for the rest of the USA) seems to be to use the USGS interactive quaternary fault map. You can also download the whole database here and load it into Google Earth.

Newburyport is near, but a little bit north of Cape Ann. It looks like it's about 35-40 miles north of Boston, which isn't that far. And Boston not only has a lot of landfill, and some big buildings as you mentioned, but there are a hell of a lot of brick buildings, and I seem to recall that bricks aren't so good for earthquakes either.

"Quaternary," by the way, simply refers to the Quaternary Period, i.e. the last 1.8 million years or so. It doesn't refer to any particular kind of fault. Disclaimer: I'm not a geologist, but maybe I'll be eligible for some kind of mailorder degree if I spend enough time on LGF.

382 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:10:04am
383 midwestgak  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:10:50am

re: #379 redmonkey

There is very simple test. Show all democrats in congress movie Taken and ask them what they would do in similar situation? Would they do everetnig posible to save own kid(including torture) or not? I wish I could see their faces and listen to their responds.

You assume they would be truthful.

384 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:10:56am

re: #376 JohnnyReb

Or how about an air raid that causes a fire during a tornado drill?

They could just fly a fully-armed Tornado overhead & cover all your bases

385 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:10:59am

re: #367 Nevergiveup

But for the Life of me I don't understand why they are in that part of the world?

Two words:

Suez Canal. A lot of shipping goes through the Gulf of Aden on its way to/from the Mediterranean Sea via the Suez Canal.

386 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:11:17am

re: #382 buzzsawmonkey

To go through the Suez Canal?

To buy quaint Mogadishu handicrafts?

To head up to the beaches of Sharm El Sheikh?

To head up to Israel, because they've got Eilat of livin' to do?

Sharm was great in the day, not sure I would go there now.

387 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:11:52am

re: #380 Desert Dog

The Red Sea has been a cruise area for many years. My parent took a cruise out of Cyprus years ago. They went through the Suez canal. Stopped at Djibouti (said it was a hell-hole, even back then), then went on to Kenya and then to the Maldives and Seychelles Island. It ended up in India. They loved it. Somalia was not the basket case it is now though.

Lovely sea shells on the Seychelles.

388 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:11:57am
389 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:12:08am

re: #387 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Lovely sea shells on the Seychelles.

sold by Sally

390 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:12:18am

re: #175 Dianna

I'm on every Sudanese list there is, and I heard nothing about this.

You were not needed for the 'arrested development' photo op.

391 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:12:24am

re: #385 Honorary Yooper

Two words:

Suez Canal. A lot of shipping goes through the Gulf of Aden on its way to/from the Mediterranean Sea via the Suez Canal.

OK I went to Little Italy and Chinatown alot in the old days, but that didn't mean I drove thru Harlem with windows rolled down?

392 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:12:33am
393 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:12:33am

re: #387 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Lovely sea shells on the Seychelles.

See Sally down by the seashore for the sea shells for sale on the Seychelles.

394 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:13:02am

re: #373 Nevergiveup

From where to where to be off the coast of Somalia?

Well, let's say you're running cargo from East Asia to Europe. re you really gonna go all the way around Africa and back up again to get to the med ports, or are you going to use the canals? You'll use the canals, everytime, and save at least two seeks and who knows how much money each time you do it.

Somalia's just about perfectly positioned to provide bases for pirate ambushes on ships in the area.

395 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:13:20am

re: #387 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Lovely sea shells on the Seychelles.

Down the by shore, weren't they?

396 subsailor68  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:13:28am

BBIAB

397 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:13:40am

re: #363 Nevergiveup

Last update - 20:01 27/04/2009

Abbas: I won't recognize Israel as a Jewish state

By Yoav Stern and Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent and News Agencies

Tags: Israel News, Abbas

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas dismissed on Monday calls by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, an issue emerging as a main obstacle to peacemaking.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

On Israel's Memorial Day? Class act you terrorist scum Abbas.

What you won't read in the New York Times:

The Clinton/Obama State department already recognized the concept of Israel as the Jewish State:

"As I said this morning, President Obama and I believe that the bond between the United States and Israel, and our commitment to Israel’s security and to its democracy as a Jewish state, remains fundamental, unshakable, and eternally durable."

Let's see how fast Clinton/Obama runs away from this.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

398 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:13:53am

Late to post.
This is no surprise, but sickening just the same.
The left has hindered the war on terror from the beginning. Remember the protests prior to any military action against Bin Ladden? I believe they can't stand that Bush had any success in Iraq and Afghanistan and has kept us safe since 9/11/2001.

399 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:13:55am

re: #391 Nevergiveup

OK I went to Little Italy and Chinatown alot in the old days, but that didn't mean I drove thru Harlem with windows rolled down?

"Kids, are you seeing all this plight?"
BLAM!
"Roll 'em up!"
/Nation Lampoon's Vacation

400 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:14:11am
401 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:14:17am

re: #379 redmonkey

There is very simple test. Show all democrats in congress movie Taken and ask them what they would do in similar situation? Would they do everetnig posible to save own kid(including torture) or not? I wish I could see their faces and listen to their responds.

I remember when Bernard Shaw asked Michael Dukakis if his wife was raped and murdered whether or not he would want the death penalty for the murderer. He gave some dispassionate Democrat answer. Cost him the election.

402 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:14:17am

re: #394 Guanxi88

Well, let's say you're running cargo from East Asia to Europe. re you really gonna go all the way around Africa and back up again to get to the med ports, or are you going to use the canals? You'll use the canals, everytime, and save at least two seeks and who knows how much money each time you do it.

Somalia's just about perfectly positioned to provide bases for pirate ambushes on ships in the area.

I meant basically Cruise Ships.

403 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:14:52am

re: #400 buzzsawmonkey

Pretty well positioned for naval gunnery practice, too.

Think of how many millions of dollars worth of improvements one good-sized battle group could do there.

404 Buck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:15:13am

re: #362 MJ

Wait! I thought Tony Soprano said to the Orthodox Jewish character after that character tells Tony that the Jews defeated the Romans and that there are no more Romans, and Tony's response is "But we ARE the Romans"

The Jewish character was right after all....

They were both right.... However it is important for "Tony" to note they don't speak Italian in Palestine any more....

The Romans were defeated by religion.... The jews drove them out of the middle east, but the Christians took control of Rome.... It is not by accident that the center of the "Roman" Church.... is in Rome.

405 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:15:25am

Oh, new salmonella scare being discussed on the news. Sprouts, apparently.
This is not a great spring thus far.

406 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:15:29am

re: #397 MJ

What you won't read in the New York Times:

The Clinton/Obama State department already recognized the concept of Israel as the Jewish State:

"As I said this morning, President Obama and I believe that the bond between the United States and Israel, and our commitment to Israel’s security and to its democracy as a Jewish state, remains fundamental, unshakable, and eternally durable."

Let's see how fast Clinton/Obama runs away from this.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

What's the expiration date on any Obama or Clinton pronouncement?

407 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:15:41am

re: #356 Desert Dog

If these cruise ship owners are doing this, it is bad news for the pirates. No more sitting ducks for them to pluck. My guess is ALL vessels operating in dangerous waters will have to start hiring security and/or training and arming the crews...one or the other. The oceans are awful big and it is too hard for navies to patrol everywhere all at once.

you cruel, heartless, CONSERVATIVE. You would take away the only income the samali pirates have. Just to save a few million bucks?

I'm glad to see that the cruise ship had security on board. Whenever I hear of these man made incidents, I remember the Achiles Lauro (sp)

408 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:15:55am

re: #402 Nevergiveup

I meant basically Cruise Ships.

Cruise ships? Not too sure on that score, but I'm sure there's got to be a compelling reason.

409 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:15:59am

re: #405 Lincolntf

Oh, new salmonella scare being discussed on the news. Sprouts, apparently.
This is not a great spring thus far.

Glad I don't eat sprouts.

410 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:16:03am
411 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:16:09am

re: #402 Nevergiveup

I meant basically Cruise Ships.


see my #378

412 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:16:10am

re: #394 Guanxi88


Somalia's just about perfectly positioned to provide bases for pirate ambushes on ships in the area.

Just like the Barbary Coast was perfectly positioned to provide bases for piracy in the Med. They could control who went in or out.

413 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:16:10am

re: #397 MJ

To them it's only words to be nuanced.

414 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:16:32am

New sport for cruise ships. Skeet shooting and target practice. Then just give all the passengers guns and get em to the rails when they see some rubber boats approaching.

415 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:16:50am

re: #409 Ward Cleaver

I never seek them out, but my wife can get sneaky.

416 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:16:55am

It's too bad that Porter Goss didn't succeed in shaking up CIA, being instead forced out by the entrenched lifers.

417 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:17:01am

re: #379 redmonkey

There is very simple test. Show all democrats in congress movie Taken and ask them what they would do in similar situation? Would they do everetnig posible to save own kid(including torture) or not? I wish I could see their faces and listen to their responds.

Torture wouldn't be a problem if it produced reliable results. The problem is, it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it hardens the enemy's will, and you will never get anything no matter what you do; other times, the enemy will start telling you what you want to hear, either out of exhaustion or deception.

And sometimes, you wind up torturing the innocent, who truly have nothing to say. Although they, too, will often wind up saying what they think their tormentors want to hear.

If you can devise a technique that produces absolutely reliable information, and that elicits everything the captive knows, I'm all for it. Until then, the downside - especially that of inflicting anguish on the innocent - makes it far too morally expensive. The ends don't justify the means.

418 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:17:33am

re: #406 Kosh's Shadow

What's the expiration date on any Obama or Clinton pronouncement?

They never expire they just fade away

419 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:18:11am

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Uh...Bernard Shaw? The playwright, who was dead long before Dukakis ran? Or is/was there a newsman by that name?

You got me for a minute. No he was a black CNN anchor.
[Link: archive.newsmax.com...]

420 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:18:46am

re: #383 midwestgak

You assume they would be truthful.

are they southern democrats?

421 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:18:47am

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Uh...Bernard Shaw? The playwright, who was dead long before Dukakis ran? Or is/was there a newsman by that name?

The issue of capital punishment came up in the October 13, 1988, debate between the two presidential nominees. Because she knew the Willie Horton issue would be brought up, Dukakis' campaign manager, Susan Estrich, had prepared with Bill Clinton an answer highlighting the candidate's empathy for victims of crime, noting the beating of his father in a robbery and the death of his brother in a hit-and-run car accident. However, when Bernard Shaw, the moderator of the debate, asked Dukakis, "Governor, if Kitty Dukakis [his wife] were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?" Dukakis replied, "No, I don't, and I think you know that I've opposed the death penalty during all of my life", and explained his stance

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

422 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:19:05am

re: #414 kansas

New sport for cruise ships. Skeet shooting and target practice. Then just give all the passengers guns and get em to the rails when they see some rubber boats approaching.

Now I want to take a cruise!
Can we take a battleship off Iran, too? I've wanted to fire a 16" gun.

423 Buck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:19:11am

Lets face it, there are still "Pirates in the Caribbean"... only diff is they are the Cruiseliners themselves.... How else do you describe $7 for a fruitie tootie drink?

424 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:20:17am

re: #403 Guanxi88

Think of how many millions of dollars worth of improvements one good-sized battle group could do there.

Looks like it would be cheaper and more effective to hire trained security to keep the bad guys at bay. It costs a fortune to send out ships to patrol the area that the pirates are now active in. The pirates are usually lightly armed with AK-47's and RPG's. Deadly enough weapons, but when they are confronted by trained experts it is no match. They will die if they try to take a ship with those guys on board.

At one point though, the world (meaning the USA) will have to deal with the situtation on the ground in Somalia. These pirate bases are little fiefdoms that are living off the tribute and ransom money. That cannot continue the way it is.

425 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:20:27am
426 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:20:29am

re: #423 Buck

Lets face it, there are still "Pirates in the Caribbean"... only diff is they are the Cruiseliners themselves.... How else do you describe $7 for a fruitie tootie drink?

They charge that for a beer at the ball park. Shiver me timbers.

427 Erik The Red  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:20:30am

re: #367 Nevergiveup

But for the Life of me I don't understand why they are in that part of the world?

The ship was leaving South Africa, after spending the season here. It was returning to Italy for there Northern season. I have cruised on The Melody a few times. Nice ship, great crew.

428 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:20:48am

re: #423 Buck

Lets face it, there are still "Pirates in the Caribbean"... only diff is they are the Cruiseliners themselves.... How else do you describe $7 for a fruitie tootie drink?

Easy

MADE for me BROUGHT to me CLEANED UP after me all the while I'm lazing at the ships pool and/ or casino oggling pretty young travelers

NEXT QUESTION!

429 Buck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:21:18am

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Uh...Bernard Shaw? The playwright, who was dead long before Dukakis ran? Or is/was there a newsman by that name?

You remember Bernard Shaw? the CNN reporter?

Image: 2000-08-01-RNCShaw.jpg

430 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:21:22am

re: #417 SixDegrees

There are family members for over 3,000 dead that may have a different viewpoint.

431 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:21:43am

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Uh...Bernard Shaw? The playwright, who was dead long before Dukakis ran? Or is/was there a newsman by that name?

George Bernard Shaw was the playwright. Bernard Shaw was on CNN. Bernie Shaw was the front man for Uriah Heep. Know the difference.

432 HelloDare  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:22:00am

Amnesia. I've got your amnesia right here:

Quotes and Facts on Iraq

"I've never said that troops should be withdrawn. What I've said is, is that we've got to make sure that we secure and execute the rebuilding and reconstruction process effectively and properly, and I don't think we should have an artificial deadline when to do that."

Senator Barack Obama (Democrat, Illinois)
During an interview on "Chicago Tonight" with Elizabeth Brackett
April 5, 2004

"Every nation has to either be with us, or against us. Those who harbor terrorists, or who finance them, are going to pay a price."

Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York)
During an interview on CBS Evening News with Dan Rather
September 13, 2001

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."

Former President Clinton
During an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live"
July 22, 2003

433 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:22:04am

re: #413 Nevergiveup

To them it's only words to be nuanced.

Text of George W. Bush's letter to Ariel Sharon

...The United States is strongly committed to Israel's security and well-being as a Jewish state. It seems clear that an agreed, just, fair, and realistic framework for a solution to the Palestinian refugee issue as part of any final status agreement will need to be found through the establishment of a Palestinian state, and the settling of Palestinian refugees there, rather than in Israel....

Can't be any clearer than that.
President Bush established the precedent.
To hell with Abbas.
At some point Bibi is going to have to demand that the US live up to it's agreements.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

434 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:22:22am

re: #407 Eowyn2

you cruel, heartless, CONSERVATIVE. You would take away the only income the samali pirates VOLUNTEER COAST GUARDS have. Just to save a few million bucks?

I'm glad to see that the cruise ship had security on board. Whenever I hear of these man made incidents, I remember the Achiles Lauro (sp)

I am heartless. I think I will bludgoen myself to death with one of the gold bars that I earned by exploiting my workers and mother earth.

435 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:23:15am

Geez, I just saw the video of the jet flying in NYC. From the angle it absolutely looked like it could hit a building (obviously the perspective makes the difference, I assume they established some safe distance and kept to it). That would have scared the hell out of me.

436 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:23:17am

re: #425 buzzsawmonkey

Ah.

I am reminded of the famous WWI-era exchange between a patriot and some member of the highly sexually ambiguous Bloomsbury Group: "What would you do, sir, if a Hun were raping your sister?" "I would throw myself between them."

I reminded you of that? Ouch.

437 Raiderdan  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:23:22am

More from the "Power Over Honor" Democrats.

Along with the "Recount Til I Win" Democrats.

And the "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" Democrats.

Michael Steele, are you listening?

438 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:23:27am

re: #401 kansas

I remember when Bernard Shaw asked Michael Dukakis if his wife was raped and murdered whether or not he would want the death penalty for the murderer. He gave some dispassionate Democrat answer. Cost him the election.

I dont think that was the only reason he lost the election but they couldnt say he lost because he was a weasel.

439 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:24:04am

re: #433 MJ

Text of George W. Bush's letter to Ariel Sharon

...The United States is strongly committed to Israel's security and well-being as a Jewish state. It seems clear that an agreed, just, fair, and realistic framework for a solution to the Palestinian refugee issue as part of any final status agreement will need to be found through the establishment of a Palestinian state, and the settling of Palestinian refugees there, rather than in Israel....

Can't be any clearer than that.
President Bush established the precedent.
To hell with Abbas.
At some point Bibi is going to have to demand that the US live up to it's agreements.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]


George Bush lives in Texas now and there is a new sheriff in town that did not know Joseph.

440 doppelganglander  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:24:14am

re: #379 redmonkey

There is very simple test. Show all democrats in congress movie Taken and ask them what they would do in similar situation? Would they do everetnig posible to save own kid(including torture) or not? I wish I could see their faces and listen to their responds.

That would require empathy and compassion, which Democrats reserve only for authorized victim groups.

441 Buck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:24:39am

re: #428 sattv4u2

Easy

MADE for me BROUGHT to me CLEANED UP after me all the while I'm lazing at the ships pool and/ or casino oggling pretty young travelers

NEXT QUESTION!

It is still Piracy... you just dig it...

442 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:25:00am

re: #438 Eowyn2

I dont think that was the only reason he lost the election but they couldnt say he lost because he was a weasel.

They couldn't? He was.

443 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:25:14am

re: #439 Nevergiveup

George Bush lives in Texas now and there is a new sheriff in town that did not know Joseph.

Mo and the Big Exit, one of the best re-tellings of the Exodus story by animated vegetables ever!

444 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:25:49am

re: #301 Honorary Yooper

A large plane like a 747 would bring back memories of 9/11. It was irresponsible, IMHO, to do the photo op. It's also a waste of fuel.

To echo and amplify someone else's suggestion, how about we have a little Photoshop contest right here on LGF? Splice photos of an "Air Force One"-outfitted 747, and two F-16's, onto a photo of the Statue of Liberty. The winner is the person who 'shops up the best picture while using a minimum amount of jet fuel and freaking out a minimum number of Lower Manhattan officeworkers.

445 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:26:18am

re: #417 SixDegrees

Torture wouldn't be a problem if it produced reliable results. The problem is, it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it hardens the enemy's will, and you will never get anything no matter what you do; other times, the enemy will start telling you what you want to hear, either out of exhaustion or deception.

And sometimes, you wind up torturing the innocent, who truly have nothing to say. Although they, too, will often wind up saying what they think their tormentors want to hear.

If you can devise a technique that produces absolutely reliable information, and that elicits everything the captive knows, I'm all for it. Until then, the downside - especially that of inflicting anguish on the innocent - makes it far too morally expensive. The ends don't justify the means.

sodium pentathol?(sp)

when you are a soldier and someone is shooting bullets at you, they are not "innocent civilians"

446 sambo the lightning  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:26:26am

re: #417 SixDegrees

Torture wouldn't be a problem if it produced reliable results. The problem is, it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it hardens the enemy's will, and you will never get anything no matter what you do; other times, the enemy will start telling you what you want to hear, either out of exhaustion or deception.

...

If you can devise a technique that produces absolutely reliable information, and that elicits everything the captive knows, I'm all for it. Until then, the downside - especially that of inflicting anguish on the innocent - makes it far too morally expensive. The ends don't justify the means.

By the same token:

Combat wouldn't be a problem if it produced reliable results. The problem is, it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it hardens the enemy's will ...

...

Until then, the downside - especially that of inflicting anguish on the innocent - makes it far too morally expensive. The ends don't justify the means.

Very few things are morally inexpensive. Some ends do justify some means.

447 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:26:33am

re: #442 kansas

They couldn't? He was.

What? You didn't like this?

448 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:27:22am

re: #445 Eowyn2

sodium pentathol?(sp)

when you are a soldier and someone is shooting bullets at you, they are not "innocent civilians"

Depends, is he an Arab or Pali or Afghan or other jihadist freedom fighter? Because if so, then he's a warrior unless and until he gets shot, captured, or killed. Then he's a farmer or gotaherder or martyr or something.

449 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:28:12am

re: #447 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What? You didn't like this?

Oh yeah, I loved that one. Too bad we couldn't have caught Barack in that get up.

450 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:29:01am

re: #449 kansas

Oh yeah, I loved that one. Too bad we couldn't have caught Barack in that get up.

You don't think the sight of him in the White House is at least as preposterous as Mike Dukakis in a tank? I do.

451 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:30:08am

re: #417 SixDegrees

Torture wouldn't be a problem if it produced reliable results. The problem is, it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it hardens the enemy's will, and you will never get anything no matter what you do; other times, the enemy will start telling you what you want to hear, either out of exhaustion or deception.
And sometimes, you wind up torturing the innocent, who truly have nothing to say. Although they, too, will often wind up saying what they think their tormentors want to hear.

If you can devise a technique that produces absolutely reliable information, and that elicits everything the captive knows, I'm all for it. Until then, the downside - especially that of inflicting anguish on the innocent - makes it far too morally expensive. The ends don't justify the means.

the information extracted should never be looked at in a vacuum. It will be compared to corroborating information gathered through other means in order to make sure it wasn't purely invention.

452 Buck  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:30:53am

re: #446 sambo the lightning


Very few things are morally inexpensive. Some ends do justify some means.

You are correct.

453 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:31:50am

re: #445 Eowyn2

sodium pentathol?(sp)

when you are a soldier and someone is shooting bullets at you, they are not "innocent civilians"

re: #417 SixDegrees

turn would agree with most of what six degrees posted however sleep deprivation and water boarding aren't torture in my book, they are enhanced interrogation techniques. Torture would be using iron maidens, the rack, poking eyes out with red hot irons, festering bamboo shoots up finger nails, staking someone out over a red ant hill, wrapping wet leather straps around the skull and letting them dry slowly, putting boring worms in one ear and letting them eat their way to the other (after laying a egg in the brain) ya know that kind of stuff.

454 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:31:55am

re: #434 Desert Dog

I am heartless. I think I will bludgoen myself to death with one of the gold bars that I earned by exploiting my workers and mother earth.

when you are done, please wrap it in foil and priority it to me. you can use a flat rate box.

455 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:32:00am
456 bolivar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:32:19am

re: #439 Nevergiveup

George Bush lives in Texas now and there is a new sheriff in town that did not know Joseph.

His world began when he was immaculated um coronated uh you know what I mean. Anything prior was not his fault and he will NOT have to answer for nor defend it. This is a real piece of work - wonder if there is a warranty for it? We might be able to collect on it?

457 Wendya  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:33:36am

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Good news.....
Obama promises major investment in science


Science!

Yeah, what the hell is a few trillion here and a few trillion there among taxpayers?

458 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:33:43am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Need to reroute the Potomac for a day and get congress out of our systems.

With all the sewage and nastiness that's floating in the Potomac... it could only be an improvement.

459 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:33:45am

re: #442 kansas

They couldn't? He was.

"He lost because he is a weasel" does not make could copy.

460 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:34:06am

re: #451 LGoPs

the information extracted should never be looked at in a vacuum. It will be compared to corroborating information gathered through other means in order to make sure it wasn't purely invention.

You should never trust just one source for information if time is not an issue. This is one of the foundations of a strong intelligence community. "Trust but verify" is ALWAYS applicable.

461 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:34:31am

re: #450 Guanxi88

You don't think the sight of him in the White House is at least as preposterous as Mike Dukakis in a tank? I do.


I guess someone should have photoshopped that image BEFORE we got stuck with him.

462 Wendya  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:34:37am

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Uh...Bernard Shaw? The playwright, who was dead long before Dukakis ran? Or is/was there a newsman by that name?

Former CNN anchor.

463 jill e  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:34:48am
How many times do we let ourselves get into terrible situations because we don't say "I forgot"? —Steve Martin
464 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:34:57am

TOTUS and the POTUS
it's a symbiotic thing, you know.....I feel better about him being in charge, don't you?

465 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:35:12am

U.S. plans to accept up to seven Chinese Muslims from Guantanamo.

The Obama administration is preparing to admit into the United States as many as seven Chinese Muslims who have been imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay in the first release of any of the detainees into this country, according to current and former U.S. officials. ... Administration officials... believe that settling some of them in American communities will set an example, helping to persuade other nations to accept Guantanamo detainees too. But the decision to release the Chinese Muslims, known as Uighurs, is not final and faces challenges from within the government, as well as likely public opposition. Among government agencies, the Homeland Security Department has registered concerns about the plan.

Great idea, Obama. How about a similar approach to nuclear waste disposal: just ask each American to personally eat about a half a pound of nuclear waste. That will show foreign governments that it's really not such a big deal, and then they'll let us ship the rest of our nuclear waste over to their countries for burial.

466 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:35:30am

re: #439 Nevergiveup

George Bush lives in Texas now and there is a new sheriff in town that did not know Joseph.

That would be a pretty stunning reversal of policy considering the Secretary of State just reaffirmed it.
However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Obama is prepared to exactly that.
After all, we've had Presidents who have said that we do not honor our word in the past when it comes to our friends and allies...Taiwan and Viet-Nam come to mind.
Britain just found out how low it ranks with this Administration so there's little doubt Obama/Clinton wouldn't sell Israel as well.

467 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:36:33am

re: #465 Last Mohican

U.S. plans to accept up to seven Chinese Muslims from Guantanamo.

Great idea, Obama. How about a similar approach to nuclear waste disposal: just ask each American to personally eat about a half a pound of nuclear waste. That will show foreign governments that it's really not such a big deal, and then they'll let us ship the rest of our nuclear waste over to their countries for burial.

Great! Freaking Uighur separatist jihadis! As if you don't already need a score-card to keep track of the players, they gotta throw this into the mix, too!

468 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:37:25am
469 MacDuff  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:37:46am

re: #345 Guanxi88

I've got this vision in my head of their conversations over dinner. If you filmed and muted it, it would look a lot like a sign-language version of tourettes, I daresay. Lotta gesticulation in both cultures' communication styles.

"a sign-language version of tourettes" LMAO! So true.......

470 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:37:56am
471 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:38:21am

re: #467 Guanxi88

Great! Freaking Uighur separatist jihadis! As if you don't already need a score-card to keep track of the players, they gotta throw this into the mix, too!

And let me say this about their "struggle" - just because Beijing is wrong, it doesn't mean these guys are right. PRC will NEVER let this piece of land go; Xinjiang is way too important strategically for them.

472 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:39:15am

robert gibbs is an incredibly inept white house press secretary. i just can't believe such a tool speaks for the POTUS ...

on second thought ...

473 MacDuff  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:40:35am

re: #456 bolivar

His world began when he was immaculated um coronated uh you know what I mean. Anything prior was not his fault and he will NOT have to answer for nor defend it. This is a real piece of work - wonder if there is a warranty for it? We might be able to collect on it?

Sorry, I'm afraid it was an "as is" transaction. To bad the MSM didn't tell the American public the definition if "is".

474 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:40:41am

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Uh...Bernard Shaw? The playwright, who was dead long before Dukakis ran? Or is/was there a newsman by that name?

Sure. And don't you remember the Oscar Wilde interview with al Gore in 1992?

475 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:40:53am
476 aggieann  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:40:56am

re: #464 Desert Dog

TOTUS and the POTUS
it's a symbiotic thing, you know.....I feel better about him being in charge, don't you?

TOTUS explains it all here:
[Link: baracksteleprompter.blogspot.com...]

"I cannot believe the level of incompetence I have to deal with on a daily basis. If it isn't the cold hand of my operator, it's Big Guy not moving his lips fast enough to keep up with my text.

I can say this much: there's no truth to the rumor that swine flu had anything to do with my scroll this morning.

Would it be possible to blame President Bush for this too?"

477 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:41:05am

re: #471 Guanxi88

And let me say this about their "struggle" - just because Beijing is wrong, it doesn't mean these guys are right. PRC will NEVER let this piece of land go; Xinjiang is way too important strategically for them.


can we offer to exchange these jihadis for some help with north korea?

/ sort of

478 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:41:23am

re: #468 buzzsawmonkey

You're not Uighur to have them living here?

Ainu you'd start making puns about minority Asian ethnicities.

479 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:41:25am

re: #451 LGoPs

the information extracted should never be looked at in a vacuum. It will be compared to corroborating information gathered through other means in order to make sure it wasn't purely invention.

If it can be corroborated, there's no point in torturing anyone. You've already got the information.

480 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:41:43am

re: #468 buzzsawmonkey

You're not Uighur to have them living here?

For those who weren't aware, "Uighur" is pronounced "WEE-ger," thus enabling a nice little pun.

481 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:41:44am

re: #453 turn

re: #417 SixDegrees

turn would agree with most of what six degrees posted however sleep deprivation and water boarding aren't torture in my book, they are enhanced interrogation techniques. Torture would be using iron maidens, the rack, poking eyes out with red hot irons, festering bamboo shoots up finger nails, staking someone out over a red ant hill, wrapping wet leather straps around the skull and letting them dry slowly, putting boring worms in one ear and letting them eat their way to the other (after laying a egg in the brain) ya know that kind of stuff.


I do not see thumb screws, drawing and quartering, wet leather strip around the throat, slow impaling (rectal or vaginal depending on gender of 'criminal')

/wet leather strip or pink panties. which is more lethal?

482 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:42:06am

#472 _RememberTonyC

robert gibbs is an incredibly inept white house press secretary. i just can't believe such a tool speaks for the POTUS ...

on second thought ...

Second thought like this?
Image: s-SCOTT-MCCLELLAN-large.jpgre:

483 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:42:13am

re: #465 Last Mohican

U.S. plans to accept up to seven Chinese Muslims from Guantanamo.

Great idea, Obama. How about a similar approach to nuclear waste disposal: just ask each American to personally eat about a half a pound of nuclear waste. That will show foreign governments that it's really not such a big deal, and then they'll let us ship the rest of our nuclear waste over to their countries for burial.

There's more to this story.
China wants these Uighurs back - but since they might be exposed to torture there, or so they say, the PB0 administration will not ship them back to China.
Other countries, which have been asked to take them, have refused - they know China's demands and won't go against China's wishes.

Brilliant move, PB0 - angering the country which you hope will help bail out the economy ...

484 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:42:26am

re: #477 _RememberTonyC

can we offer to exchange these jihadis for some help with north korea?

/ sort of

Well, if we sent them back, they're dead for sure. Not that I have a problem with that, but we don't generally extradite folks facing certain death following summary trial by a manifestly unfair "legal" system.

With the NorK's? Doubtful.

485 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:42:45am

re: #475 buzzsawmonkey

You must not, you will not, you shall not, you cannot, and you, um, may not cast aspersions one The One's manufactured eloquence.

486 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:42:57am

re: #455 buzzsawmonkey

Your post contains two major fallacies. First, it assumes that any interrogation technique stronger than "pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease tell us" is "torture." This is something you must justify before it can be accepted.

Incorrect. I never discussed what I consider to be torture, and certainly never said anything like what you're claiming here.

487 Lincolntf  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:43:18am

re: #472 _RememberTonyC

Did you see him that weird body language thing a few minutes ago? He looked like he was doing some sort of slo-mo hip hop move. He's such a boob. Steve Carrell will play him in the movie.

488 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:43:19am

re: #482 kansas

#472 _RememberTonyC

Second thought like this?
[Link: images.huffingtonpost.com...]

Put them together and you have two giant boobs....44DDD's

489 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:43:30am

re: #479 SixDegrees

If it can be corroborated, there's no point in torturing anyone. You've already got the information.

That's a circular argument and clearly not what I meant.

490 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:44:05am

re: #417 SixDegrees

If you can devise a technique that produces absolutely reliable information, and that elicits everything the captive knows, I'm all for it. Until then, the downside - especially that of inflicting anguish on the innocent - makes it far too morally expensive.

You don't understand the nature of the interrogation process or the difference between methods which break down a person's resistance to co-operate and methods which compel a person to say anything just to make it stop. The latter is clearly torture. Used in over 100 countries around the world, torture is primarily a weapon of fear and oppression, not intended to garner useful information.

The techniques used by the CIA against the 3 Al Qaeda commanders were designed and carefully applied in order to break down their resistance and get them to co-operate. They all gave useful information, two of them provided information on planned terror attacks. Obtaining the information saved lives.

The ends don't justify the means.

This is morality reduced to a cliche. What does it mean? Which "ends" and which "means" are you referring to? I think you are implying using means of torture does not justify the ends of preventing a terror attack. But this morality exercise works the other way around, too.

Obama uses the "means" of labeling enhanced interrogation techniques as "torture" and denying the use of those techniques to our security agents, and justifies these means with the rather tenuous argument that this will elevate the US moral standing in the world. Does that end justify Obama's means?

Putting aside the obvious partisan political convenience of this agenda, Obama's means may well cost US lives as the real end result. Do the means then justify the ends?

Presidents don;t have the luxury of engaging in abstract debates on morality and policy. They live & act in a real world where the consequences of their action, or inaction, have real effects.

491 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:44:08am
492 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:44:28am

re: #482 kansas

#472 _RememberTonyC


Second thought like this?
[Link: images.huffingtonpost.com...]


we'll call gibbs vs mcclellan a "push."

493 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:45:04am

re: #480 Last Mohican

For those who weren't aware, "Uighur" is pronounced "WEE-ger," thus enabling a nice little pun.


V-Ger? Voyager. Star Trek?

494 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:45:34am

re: #453 turn

re: #417 SixDegrees

turn would agree with most of what six degrees posted however sleep deprivation and water boarding aren't torture in my book, they are enhanced interrogation techniques. Torture would be using iron maidens, the rack, poking eyes out with red hot irons, festering bamboo shoots up finger nails, staking someone out over a red ant hill, wrapping wet leather straps around the skull and letting them dry slowly, putting boring worms in one ear and letting them eat their way to the other (after laying a egg in the brain) ya know that kind of stuff.

I never mentioned what I considered to be torture in the first place. I simply stated that torture is wrong, and that as a practical matter it doesn't produce the results so many feel justify it's use.

495 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:46:33am

re: #483 yma o hyd

There's more to this story.
China wants these Uighurs back - but since they might be exposed to torture there, or so they say, the PB0 administration will not ship them back to China.
Other countries, which have been asked to take them, have refused - they know China's demands and won't go against China's wishes.

Brilliant move, PB0 - angering the country which you hope will help bail out the economy ...

So maybe they would even prefer gitmo over going back to China and the possibility of real torture?

496 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:46:49am

re: #481 Eowyn2

I do not see thumb screws, drawing and quartering, wet leather strip around the throat, slow impaling (rectal or vaginal depending on gender of 'criminal')

/wet leather strip or pink panties. which is more lethal?

It depends on who wore the panties. Rosie, Nancy, Medeia, or Helen would have turn blabbering information before they could even lift their skirts.

497 Wendya  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:46:52am

re: #467 Guanxi88

Great! Freaking Uighur separatist jihadis! As if you don't already need a score-card to keep track of the players, they gotta throw this into the mix, too!

Nothing like creating a brand new terror cell in the USA to placate the moonbats.

498 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:47:03am

re: #484 Guanxi88

Well, if we sent them back, they're dead for sure. Not that I have a problem with that, but we don't generally extradite folks facing certain death following summary trial by a manifestly unfair "legal" system.

With the NorK's? Doubtful.


I suppose ... that's why I had a (sort of) sarc tag at the end of the post. But the thought of letting someone else deal with a few jihadis with us getting something in return did have a certain appeal.

499 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:47:33am

re: #432 HelloDare

Excellent post. May I add this gem:

"Of course it's illegal, that's why they call it "extraordinary" I say we render his ass!" - Vice-President Albert Gore, 1997.

500 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:02am

re: #494 SixDegrees

I never mentioned what I considered to be torture in the first place. I simply stated that torture is wrong, and that as a practical matter it doesn't produce the results so many feel justify it's use.

ok then, what do you consider to be the line between enhanced interrogation and torture?

501 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:04am

re: #475 buzzsawmonkey

Funny, but the Left used to characterize Reagan as an empty-headed actor merely reading a script.

Obama's campaign stole much from Reagan: the tone of optimism, the "hope" and "change," was a direct lift from Reagan's "morning in America" speeches. Yet, Reagan, it appears, actually was capable not only of his own thoughts, but of making his own speeches without fumbling.

Obama, the anti-Reagan in philosophy who appropriated the trappings of Reagan to get elected, does not have a fraction of Reagan's ability to speak, think, respond on his feet. Instead, he merely reads a script, as Reagan was accused of doing--but, unlike Reagan, he is lost without the script being spoonfed to him in small, telepromptered doses.

The dynamic I see going on is similar to what happens commonly in a high school. The 'in crowd...the ones that are cool and hip are the media. Obama is their prom King and they will do everything in their power to protect him. One of their primary tools is derision, something you can see regularly in their treatment of the 'uncool' conservatives who oppose him........derision, and if that doesn't work, out and out shunning, as in ignoring them.

502 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:10am

re: #498 _RememberTonyC

I suppose ... that's why I had a (sort of) sarc tag at the end of the post. But the thought of letting someone else deal with a few jihadis with us getting something in return did have a certain appeal.

I suppose we could strap a guidance system on these guys, the way we retro-fit the old "dumb" bombs, and let them loose over likely NORK installations. It'd be entertaining, if nothing else.

503 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:15am

<

Torture wouldn't be a problem if it produced reliable results. The problem is, it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it hardens the enemy's will, and you will never get anything no matter what you do; other times, the enemy will start telling you what you want to hear, either out of exhaustion or deception.

And sometimes, you wind up torturing the innocent, who truly have nothing to say. Although they, too, will often wind up saying what they think their tormentors want to hear.

If you can devise a technique that produces absolutely reliable information, and that elicits everything the captive knows, I'm all for it. Until then, the downside - especially that of inflicting anguish on the innocent - makes it far too morally expensive. The ends don't justify the means.

I think I saw a technique like that in an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. As far as morally expensive, I was wondering how you felt about Jihadi's taking the heads off of folks? That good for you?

504 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:26am
505 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:26am

re: #465 Last Mohican

U.S. plans to accept up to seven Chinese Muslims from Guantanamo.

Great idea, Obama. How about a similar approach to nuclear waste disposal: just ask each American to personally eat about a half a pound of nuclear waste. That will show foreign governments that it's really not such a big deal, and then they'll let us ship the rest of our nuclear waste over to their countries for burial.

Adopt-A-Jihadi?

506 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:38am

re: #487 Lincolntf

Did you see him that weird body language thing a few minutes ago? He looked like he was doing some sort of slo-mo hip hop move. He's such a boob. Steve Carrell will play him in the movie.


yes ... he's such a wormy, slimy individual ... with a horseshit attitude to boot. Carrell is a good choice to play him ... or perhaps Kevin James.

507 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:48:47am

re: #494 SixDegrees

I never mentioned what I considered to be torture in the first place. I simply stated that torture is wrong, and that as a practical matter it doesn't produce the results so many feel justify it's use.

Torture is wrong but you don't know what it is? That's a good one.

508 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:49:03am

re: #479 SixDegrees

If it can be corroborated, there's no point in torturing anyone. You've already got the information.

You've just defined the verb "to corroborate" out of existence.

509 Eowyn2  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:49:47am

re: #494 SixDegrees

I never mentioned what I considered to be torture in the first place. I simply stated that torture is wrong, and that as a practical matter it doesn't produce the results so many feel justify it's use.

Where does interrogation end and torture begin?
is it a sight, a sound, a taste, a touch, a smell ?
or does it involve emotion?

Spides dont scare me. I simply kill them.
Snakes scare me.

510 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:50:36am
You don't understand the nature of the interrogation process or the difference between methods which break down a person's resistance to co-operate and methods which compel a person to say anything just to make it stop. The latter is clearly torture.

And torture is clearly what I was referring to. I never made any mention of specific techniques.

I'll say it again, to be clear: torture is never justified. Ever. It it morally reprehensible. And as a practical matter, it fails to produce the results so often raised by those attempting to justify it.

Back later; I have to install a bleeding-edge wireless connection on my Windows/Linux box, and the Linux side doesn't look like it's going to be pretty.

511 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:50:39am

re: #508 Occasional Reader

You've just defined the verb "to corroborate" out of existence.

Is that you, Derrida?

Hey, can I play auto-deconstruction, too?

512 Wendya  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:50:46am

re: #494 SixDegrees

I never mentioned what I considered to be torture in the first place. I simply stated that torture is wrong, and that as a practical matter it doesn't produce the results so many feel justify it's use.

Is waterboarding torture?

513 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:51:07am

re: #490 Kenneth

turn has but one ding Kenneth, excellent.

514 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:51:20am

re: #509 Eowyn2

Snakes scare me.

Now we know what to have awaiting you in your personal Room 101.

bwaaaahahahahaaha!

515 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:51:48am

re: #511 Guanxi88

Hey, can I play auto-deconstruction, too?

What is this, "Monster Garage"?

516 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:53:06am

re: #495 Eowyn2

So maybe they would even prefer gitmo over going back to China and the possibility of real torture?

No maybe about it!
And lets not forget - tehse ahve been captured in Afghanistan, they are jihadis, they are not innocent freedom fighters against the bad Chinese commies.

517 kansas  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:53:21am

re: #512 Wendya

Is waterboarding torture?

He's gone. He's not going to commit to defining torture. Only saying the obvious, that torture is WRONG. That's some real risk taking I'd say./

518 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:53:31am

re: #515 Occasional Reader

What is this, "Monster Garage"?

So, language is a vehicle of expression, and not the house of Being? Interesting....

519 melvinwinter  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:53:44am

If we keep going down the prosecution route, as this parody points out, we might as well create a "9/10 Commission" to restore America's pre-9/11 mindset:

Your text to link...

520 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:55:42am
521 Wendya  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:58:26am

re: #517 kansas

He's gone. He's not going to commit to defining torture. Only saying the obvious, that torture is WRONG. That's some real risk taking I'd say./

Well, I hope he's not trying to equate waterboarding, something we do to our own troops, with pulling out fingernails and pouring acid on body parts.

522 LGoPs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 11:59:48am

re: #510 SixDegrees

And torture is clearly what I was referring to. I never made any mention of specific techniques.

Then this argument is academic. It's too easy to just condemn torture and then not define what it is. The disagreement here is that I do not consider waterboarding torture. You apparently do.

523 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:01:12pm

re: #520 buzzsawmonkey

When I toss you a snake and reptiles make you flake,
That's-a torture
When I beat you with flails or if I pluck your nails
That's-a torture
If iron rings to your body cling 'til they give you scrofula
If pray tell I should fill your cell with hairy tarantulas
If your person is laid into an Iron Maid,
That's-a torture...

etc.

Nice. But I thought you were going to give us something more heartbreakingly romantic... you know, a classic Torch-a Song.

524 capitalist piglet  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:03:19pm

re: #520 buzzsawmonkey

When I toss you a snake and reptiles make you flake,
That's-a torture
When I beat you with flails or if I pluck your nails
That's-a torture
If iron rings to your body cling 'til they give you scrofula
If pray tell I should fill your cell with hairy tarantulas
If your person is laid into an Iron Maid,
That's-a torture...

etc.

If I gouge out your eye 'til you can't see the sky
That's-a-torture
If I cut out your tongue till your song can't be sung
That's-a-torture

525 TedStriker  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:11:13pm

re: #246 Honorary Yooper

To elaborate on your Apollo program and constitutionality, it was not not the right that wanted to shut it down, it was the socialistic left. They whined, and still continue to whine to this very day, that NASA takes away money they'd rather spend on welfare. You set up a strawman with that, Killgore.

If you haven't seen the HBO miniseries From the Earth to the Moon, I highly recommend it...one episode deals with the Apollo 1 fire and the aftermath. Walter Mondale was on the Senate committee overseeing NASA and, while FTETTM dramatized quite a bit, was apparently trying to capitalize on the fire by playing hardball and aiming to shut Apollo down in favor of his social agenda.

526 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:25:14pm

is janet napolitano a dude? she looks like robert gibbs without the glasses. come to think of it, I have never seen the two of them together ...

527 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:33:12pm

re: #526 _RememberTonyC

Janet Napolitano is 52 years old and as her bio at Wiki says, "has never been married". You figure it out...

528 TheMatrix31  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:34:11pm

re: #526 _RememberTonyC

is janet napolitano a dude? she looks like robert gibbs without the glasses. come to think of it, I have never seen the two of them together ...

She's a cross between Janet Reno and Robert Gibbs.

529 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:34:24pm

re: #527 Kenneth

Janet Napolitano is 52 years old and as her bio at Wiki says, "has never been married". You figure it out...

hard to understand that ... not.

530 pupdawg  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:48:06pm

If there is an earthen creature large or small which travels by feet, fin or belly more despicable than a US Democrat, I'd like to hear about it! Their hypocricy, mendacity and profound propensity to deviate dramatically from the truth knows no bounds...yet, they somehow continue to get elected just like Barack Obama. Yes folks, a majority of voting Americans are that stupid!

531 sngnsgt  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:58:46pm

"I see nuting!"

/Sgt Schultz

532 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 12:59:25pm

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

from yesterday:

There's no trial like a show trial
Like no trial that I know
Everything about it is appealing
It's calumny the public will allow
Listen to selected victims squealing
As the opposition you cow
There's no commission like a show commision
There's no telling how low it will go
Winners with the upper hand are acting sore
Condemning policies that they voted for
A fact they now choose to conveniently ignore
Let's go! On with the show!

* * *
Buzz, you're a national treasure!

533 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 4:49:54pm

re: #460 ConservatismNow!

You should never trust just one source for information if time is not an issue. This is one of the foundations of a strong intelligence community. "Trust but verify" is ALWAYS applicable.

That's a strong incentive for someone not to lie to their waterboarder. Both of them know that anything the waterboardee says with be checked out. And both of them know that if it doesn't check out, that they will be seeing each other again, for another interrogation, and that the waterboarder will be sorely displeased at being previously lied to, and that the waterboardee is highly likely to experience the negative consequences of that wrath.

534 Jimash  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 4:55:35pm

re: #533 Salamantis

These concepts are not penetrating the set that thinks the Marines just scoop up Goatherders and tortures them til they admit to something.
And it's infuriating.

535 Ming  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 5:25:55pm

The investigations into torture committed by the American government must not be partisan investigations. There is too much at stake here: a proud history of over 200 years of law-abiding American behavior. It seems that Democrats Nancy Pelosi and Jane Harman were fully in the loop about torture. This is bigger than "Republican versus Democrat". We must put this shameful period behind us. Torture, like white supremacy, is not something we can abide.

536 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 6:25:03pm
537 zoidberg  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:18:46pm

Gang of Four!? The design pattern dudes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_Patterns_(book)

/

538 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:12:54pm

re: #535 Ming

The investigations into torture committed by the American government must not be partisan investigations. There is too much at stake here: a proud history of over 200 years of law-abiding American behavior. It seems that Democrats Nancy Pelosi and Jane Harman were fully in the loop about torture. This is bigger than "Republican versus Democrat". We must put this shameful period behind us. Torture, like white supremacy, is not something we can abide.

In a few years:

The investigations into coddling terror masterminds committed by the American government must not be partisan investigations. There is too much at stake here: yet another disastrous terror attack that has murdered many thousands of Americans, when we had terror masterminds in custody who had, and kept secret, foreknowledge of specificities of these attacks that would have allowed us to prevent them. It seems that Democrats Barack Obama and Eric Holder were fully in the loop about the coddling of terror masterminds. This is far bigger than "Republican versus Democrat", and involves the very survival of our great republic. We must put this horrific period behind us. The coddling of terror masterminds, like the exposure of effective methods and tactics by means of which we apprehend terror masterminds and extract information about ongoing terror plots from them without causing them permanent physical harm, is not something we as a nonsuicidal nation can abide


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