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156 comments
1 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:32:38pm

Cast lead was a disproportionate use of force
/extreme

2 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:32:46pm

Hamas is quite the bunch od barbaric fuckers.

3 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:33:22pm

Technically, the number of people within range of being hit by those Hamas rockets is far higher - consider all the misfired Hamas rockets that have landed back on Gaza. The total number of those who could be maimed or killed is the one million living in Israel and all those Gazans who continue to think that Hamas is their best option and agree with Hamas that destroying Israel at all costs is worth destroying generation after generation of Arabs who willingly submit to the jihadi worldview.

4 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:34:29pm

It's really amazing how few civilian casualties resulted from this complex mission, it's a real tribute to the IDF.

5 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:34:44pm

The IDF really has its work cut out for them to go after Hamas. The way Hamas has it set up, it's almost impossible not to have "collateral damage".

6 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:35:05pm
7 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:35:08pm

The important thing to note here: the tunnels aren't just under the border, they are all through the city and used for logistics and terror. Here's what I said when I posted this over at my place:

This video released by the IDF demonstrates the terror tactics employed by Hamas, their infrastructure and their logistics. The tactics include civilian shields, booby traps designed to take out civilians as IDF forces enter, and “shoot and scoot” urban warfare similar to that seen in Iraq. Urban warfare tactics are growing increasingly more sophisticated, and the future does not bode well for those combatting urban terror where civilians are hostage. Soon many of the capabilities enjoyed by advanced armies will be available to terrorists as costs come down and miniaturization of electronics systems continues to increase.

Urban war in a few years could employ drones, UAVs, remote sensor, remote camera activated explosive devices, advanced armaments and other unmentionables all in the hands of the terrorist enemy.

Our window of technical superiority is fast closing, and that worries me. Not only must we be ready for this style combat, but if our defense department is doing their full job we must be ready for “the next big war” (TNBW.)

8 Ben G. Hazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:35:55pm

Hamas is a bunch of barbarian outlaws and should be (and were) treated as such.

No mercy, no quarter....eliminate the bastards.

9 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:36:06pm

Also, keep in mind, many of these techniques were used by Hizbullah during the Hizbullah war in Lebanon nearly 3 years ago. Same outcome as well - Israel gets blamed for casualties, even though the terrorists initiated the conflict and purposefully engaged in using human shields, violating laws of war, and Geneva Conventions.

10 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:36:49pm

The graphics could be better, but I'd play that game. On the IDF side of course.

11 brookly red  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:37:01pm

How much did we send them again? .9 billion was it?

12 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:39:48pm

Also note that earlier IDF videos also demonstrated a way to combat terror tunnels: Penetrating hyperbaric explosive devices. There are also other methods just too gross to talk about.

13 Mad Mullah  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:40:30pm

I approve with disproportionate use of force! I encourage it, and I think that everybody should use disproportionate force against Islamic terrorists everywhere.

The idiots who whine about Israel are just upset that Jews are actually defending themselves against people who seek to destroy them.

14 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:40:34pm

Got to dig them out like ticks.

15 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:40:58pm

re: #7 Thanos

The important thing to note here: the tunnels aren't just under the border, they are all through the city and used for logistics and terror. Here's what I said when I posted this over at my place:

Our window of technical superiority is fast closing, and that worries me. Not only must we be ready for this style combat, but if our defense department is doing their full job we must be ready for “the next big war” (TNBW.)


Need robotic rats to go through the tunnels.
The IDF can use that free, but if they sell the rats to any other country, I want reasonable royalties to go to Magen David Adom.

16 UFO TOFU  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:41:00pm

I understand that Israeli school children are trained that they have a certain number of seconds after a warning alarm to make it to some shelter. School children. That Israel exercises any restraint at all in retaliation amazes me.

17 Danny  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:41:42pm

Proportionate force = stalemate and protracted conflict.

18 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:41:46pm

Disportionate use of force used to be called how to win a war, but then again, we're not supposed to win any more

19 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:42:00pm

re: #7 Thanos

The important thing to note here: the tunnels aren't just under the border, they are all through the city and used for logistics and terror. Here's what I said when I posted this over at my place:

Peshaw! You're talking about unproven technologies. Our President isn't going to waste our money on that stuff. //////////

20 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:42:01pm

DUMBEST PRESIDENTIAL MOVE TODAY?

This is unbelievable...for a photo op.

21 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:42:07pm

If I said how to deal with Hamas, I'd get banned, but it would be consistent with accepted practice in WWII (and I'm talking by the Allies, not the Japanese).

22 researchok  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:42:18pm

What were once acknowledged as universal laws, no longer exist in the Arab world. What was once assumed to be understood as universal expressions of civilized behavior are no longer a reality in the Arab world.

The civilized world understands and accepts civilized behavior and universal laws. Israel the US today face an enemy that that uses hospitals and schools to shield terrorists, and where houses of worship are used as armories.

You can negotiate with like minded people who share similar values- you cannot negotiate as equals with people who believe children are fodder, to hide behind and used as human shields, counting that our civility will not address their barbarity. We cannot deal with as equals those who believe that children, the elderly and the disabled are disposable.

To ask Israel to negotiate with these beasts who deny even their right to exist, call for genocide and who have long abandoned civilized behavior is absurd.

23 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:42:30pm

What a despicable bunch of monsters Hamas is.
Thanks again Charles and of course the IDF for providing intel and protection.

24 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:42:34pm

re: #9 lawhawk

"purposefully engaged in using human shields" and reveling when they got their first dead baby to parade around in front of the AFP and Reuters photographers in a staged display of phony grief. Sick f$%^s

25 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:43:01pm

re: #15 Kosh's Shadow

Need robotic rats to go through the tunnels.
The IDF can use that free, but if they sell the rats to any other country, I want reasonable royalties to go to Magen David Adom.

Cratering bombs, followed by diesel fuel, should clear out the tunnels quiet effectively

26 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:43:37pm

re: #21 Kosh's Shadow

If I said how to deal with Hamas, I'd get banned, but it would be consistent with accepted practice in WWII (and I'm talking by the Allies, not the Japanese).

I think I just did.

27 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:43:48pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cratering bombs, followed by diesel fuel, should clear out the tunnels quiet effectively

But let's use bio-diesel, just to keep the Greens happy.

28 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:44:03pm

Roger Cohen, the NYT resident Kapo and apologist for Ahmadinejad, is beside himself with excitement today as he too noticed that the State Department is about to fund Hamas:

Clinton also indicated an important shift on Hamas, which the State Department calls a terrorist group. While stressing that no funds would flow to Hamas “or any entity controlled by it,” she argued for keeping American options open on a possible Palestinian unity government between the moderate Fatah and Hamas.

So long as a unity government meets three conditions — renounces violence, recognizes Israel’s right to exist and abides by past agreements — the United States would be prepared to deal with it, including on $900 million in proposed aid, Clinton indicated. Washington does business with a Lebanese government in which Hezbollah controls 11 of 30 seats, although Hezbollah is also deemed a terrorist group.

Such a changed U.S. policy makes a lot more sense than the previous one, which insisted on Hamas itself — rather than any Palestinian unity government — meeting the three conditions. No peace can be made by pretending Hamas does not exist, which is why advancing Palestinian unity must be a U.S. priority...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

29 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:44:12pm

re: #19 Russkilitlover

Peshaw! You're talking about unproven technologies. Our President isn't going to waste our money on that stuff. //////////

They are well known and demonstrated to be effective. Many cities use these methods to combat burrowing rodents.

30 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:44:29pm
31 ssn697  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:44:39pm

re: #2 Honorary Yooper

Hamas is quite the bunch od barbaric fuckers.

I can't make heads or tails of their "strategy", other than to make sure to kill as many innocent people as possible, while also keeping their own people subjugated and living in fear.

Good video, BTW.

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:44:59pm

re: #13 Mad Mullah


The idiots who whine about Israel are just upset that Jews are actually defending themselves against people who seek to destroy them.

We're so much more relatable as helpess victims.

///

33 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:45:05pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cratering bombs, followed by diesel fuel, should clear out the tunnels quiet effectively

Ace Levy: Shoot a nuke down a bug hole, you got a lot of dead bugs.

34 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:45:28pm

re: #31 ssn697

I can't make heads or tails of their "strategy", other than to make sure to kill as many innocent people as possible, while also keeping their own people subjugated and living in fear.

Good video, BTW.

It's easy to follow. Kill Jews, go to paradise.

35 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:45:36pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cratering bombs, followed by diesel fuel, should clear out the tunnels quiet effectively

But get more casualties for the Hamassholes to parade in front of the media.
The MFMSM is collaborating with the enemies of Israel.

36 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:46:09pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cratering bombs, followed by diesel fuel, should clear out the tunnels quiet effectively

Couldn't we use these tunnels as holding talks for the waste and sewage backed up by HAMAS' theft of sewer pipe for use as rocket casings? Two birds with one stone, as it were?

37 alegrias  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:46:23pm

OT

Cheating Alert by Thugs! Like Sneaking Money to Hamas....

"White House rolls back the rules requiring Unions to disclose more financial information."

"White House ends rule requiring more transparency for Unions"

"Will White House give Unions more cover for corruption?"

(Neil Cavuto on Fox)

Thank you, Hilda Solis you Union thugista "Labor" Secretary and your tax cheating partner.

38 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:46:33pm

re: #15 Kosh's Shadow

Need robotic rats to go through the tunnels.
The IDF can use that free, but if they sell the rats to any other country, I want reasonable royalties to go to Magen David Adom.

Kudos to you, that's certainly more humane than what I was thinking of, and that's enough said on the subject by me since I've never been deleted here, and do not want to start

39 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:46:42pm

$800,000,000.

40 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:47:11pm

re: #39 Ben Hur

$800,000,000.

Buy a lotta ammo with that kinda coin.

41 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:48:05pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cratering bombs, followed by diesel fuel, should clear out the tunnels quiet effectively

There was a plan to dig a deep mote and fill it with "heavy water."

The logic was that no tunnel could sustain the pressure.

42 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:48:27pm

re: #38 Thanos

Kudos to you, that's certainly more humane than what I was thinking of, and that's enough said on the subject by me since I've never been deleted here, and do not want to start

See my #21 Kosh's Shadow

43 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:48:27pm

re: #39 Ben Hur

$800,000,000.

That buys a lot of rocket components.
Remind me again why anyone gives money to these barbaric Hamas fuckers?

44 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:48:30pm

re: #20 WriterMom

DUMBEST PRESIDENTIAL MOVE TODAY?

This is unbelievable...for a photo op.

How much of this can be laid at Obama's feet? I agree that it's asine of his DoD and FFA, but I would definitely like to know if Obama knew and what he knew. If he breaks out into his trademark maniacial giggling, then he's busted.

45 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:48:58pm

re: #20 WriterMom

DUMBEST PRESIDENTIAL MOVE TODAY?

This is unbelievable...for a photo op.

Why would the President be involved in a Air Force photo opp ?

46 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:49:00pm

Does anybody have that link to the list of so-called "civilians" killed by the "Zionist aggressors"? Researchers have double check the names and found over 100 of them were Hamas gunmen. Some even have their martyr pictures up on jihadi websites.

47 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:49:16pm

re: #22 researchok

Hey, I didn't know someone from that SG&A blog site was a lizard. kewl, Is Dr. Sanity blogging again?

48 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:49:19pm

re: #30 buzzsawmonkey

If all of us would just die-that would make them happy!

49 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:49:34pm

re: #43 Honorary Yooper

That buys a lot of rocket components.
Remind me again why anyone gives money to these barbaric Hamas fuckers?

Because more people hate Jews than will admit it, especially uppity Jews that have the audacity to defend themselves against [deleted].

50 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:49:35pm

re: #45 avanti

Because it's his fricken plane.

51 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:49:39pm

re: #43 Honorary Yooper

That buys a lot of rocket components.
Remind me again why anyone gives money to these barbaric Hamas fuckers?

I won.

/The One.

52 vxbush  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:50:04pm

re: #10 ConservatismNow!

The graphics could be better, but I'd play that game. On the IDF side of course.

Heh. Oh, I don't know. I found it very effective. A nice use of modeling, actually.

53 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:50:20pm

re: #46 Kenneth

Does anybody have that link to the list of so-called "civilians" killed by the "Zionist aggressors"? Researchers have double check the names and found over 100 of them were Hamas gunmen. Some even have their martyr pictures up on jihadi websites.

We've been over this: anyone killed by the IDF is a civilian and a martyr to the cause. Anyone with a gun shooting at Israelis is an activist or a freedom fighter, unless and until he runs outta ammo, gets wounded, or killed - then, he's a civilian again.

54 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:51:23pm

re: #48 WriterMom

If all of us would just die-that would make them happy!

I'll field that one:

No, it wouldn't make them happy at all. Our death would not be enough to them; they'd need to re-enact it, again and again, as they do in their kindergarten graduation ceremonies and TV shows. They'd be killing Jews long after the last of us were gone.

55 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:51:47pm

re: #44 Russkilitlover

A Pentagon official confirmed that while the Presidential Airlift Group, which is based out of Andrews Air Force Base, did inform the FAA and New York City officials about this morning's aerial photo op. But they also told both agencies not to inform the public about it. The NYPD confirmed this

I don't know-you think this could happen without the President knowing about it? Seems odd to me.

56 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:52:30pm
57 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:52:58pm

re: #46 Kenneth

I have it:

Ahmad Mohammad
Mohammad Mahmud
Mahmud Ahmad
Repeat.

58 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:53:23pm

re: #56 buzzsawmonkey

Great. Hamas doing the jihadi equivalent of Civil War re-enactments.

More pathological than that, even. Thin k of the serial killers who keep trophies, photos, etc., of their kills, so they can experience the thrill again and again, long after the victim is gone. We're dealing with pathology of that order of magnitude.

59 jorline  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:53:29pm

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got to dig them out like ticks.

Hot lead match tip should do the trick.

60 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:53:34pm

re: #50 Kenneth

Because it's his fricken plane.

OK, but do you have a link that shows he ordered the shoot or even knew it was taking place ? I just don't picture the President asking for the picture, and I'd give it a few hours before blaming him. BTW, it's one of the planes the POTUS uses, it's not AF 1 unless he's on board.

61 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:53:49pm

re: #35 Kosh's Shadow

But get more casualties for the Hamassholes to parade in front of the media.
The MFMSM is collaborating with the enemies of Israel.

No one has the balls to fight this intelligently.

Stage 1) Provide a tent compound surrounded by the IDF for security but staffed and supplied by the UN, so they don't have to go thru Hamas.

Announce in 72 hours, grid square XxYy, along these roads will be destroyed, evacuate along these routes where you will be subject to inspection and held until operations are complete. Any attempt to leave outside this route will be stopped with deadly force if necessary. Open hostilities before the 72 hour deadline reaches stage 2.

Stage 2) Using artillery and airstrikes, level every structure, collapse known tunnels and use cratering munitions on open fields, followed by fuel air explosives. Follow up with armored bulldozers, tanks and infantry support to level and secure the area. Once the area is announced as secured, begin building another tent compound to begin processing evacuees from the next zone slated for clearance

repeat

62 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:53:51pm

re: #54 Guanxi88

Well they can kiss my fine, Jewish I-ain't-gonna-submit-or-commit-suicide butt.

63 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:54:01pm

re: #46 Kenneth

Does anybody have that link to the list of so-called "civilians" killed by the "Zionist aggressors"? Researchers have double check the names and found over 100 of them were Hamas gunmen. Some even have their martyr pictures up on jihadi websites.

It's Elder of Zion:
Spread this information around!

[Link: elderofziyon.blogspot.com...]

64 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:54:16pm

re: #28 MJ

Roger Cohen, the NYT resident Kapo and apologist for Ahmadinejad, is beside himself with excitement excrement today as he too noticed that the State Department is about to fund Hamas: ...

Fixed for ya.

65 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:54:17pm

re: #45 avanti

Why would the President be involved in a Air Force photo opp ?

Oh yeah, it would be totally unlike him.

66 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:54:17pm

re: #20 WriterMom

DUMBEST PRESIDENTIAL MOVE TODAY?

This is unbelievable...for a photo op.

And note NBC's headline:

F-16 Buzzes Lady Liberty, Puts City on Edge

I rather doubt the F-16 was the problem, kids. It was the jumbo jet... in Air Force One livery... but we don't want THAT headline, do we? People might start wondering who had arranged for this "photo op".

67 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:54:53pm

re: #55 WriterMom

I don't know-you think this could happen without the President knowing about it? Seems odd to me.

Agree. Hard to see how he didn't have to sign off on it.

ASS!

(Obama, not you, WriterMom :-D)

68 dhg4  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:55:25pm

re: #7 Thanos

The important thing to note here: the tunnels aren't just under the border, they are all through the city and used for logistics and terror. Here's what I said when I posted this over at my place:

Correct. And the reason Israel "broke" the ceasefire with Hamas in November (ahead of the larger, sustained attack later) is because the IDF detected tunnels being built to get terrorists accross the border to attack soldiers. So yes Hamas wasn't firing rockets, but it wasn't sitting around knitting either. It was preparing for its next attack.

Third, even limited, well-planned operations can escalate. The kidnapping of IDF soldiers could lead to hot pursuit, and small force incursions or raids could become entangled with defenders, leading to expanding confrontations as reinforcements are called in. The current series of clashes started when the IDF penetrated 250 meters into Gaza to locate and destroy a Hamas tunnel that was reportedly intended to support kidnapping operations. Hamas militants in Gaza maintain close surveillance of the border, follow IDF movements, and are highly sensitive to even small Israeli incursions. They often attempt to engage raiding forces, as responsiveness to Israeli infiltrations appears to be integral to Hamas military doctrine. The IDF, for its part, seems to have reduced its threshold for responding to threats along the border fence.

(emphasis mine)

69 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:55:28pm
70 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:55:39pm

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think you need to add flamethrowers in there somewhere. Needs more flamethrowers

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:55:45pm

re: #43 Honorary Yooper

That buys a lot of rocket components.
Remind me again why anyone gives money to these barbaric Hamas fuckers?

/humanitarian crisis

//civilians in Sri Lanka, however, are just unfortunate to be living in a war zone. The world's passionate attention is not required.

72 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:55:54pm

re: #62 WriterMom

Well they can kiss my fine, Jewish I-ain't-gonna-submit-or-commit-suicide butt.

A noble sentiment, with earthy expression.

73 zombie  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:56:01pm

Hamas' main weapon is neither rockets nor mortars but instead the Israelis' sense of morality.

Hamas is protecting itself with the Jewish commandment to preserve innocent life at all costs.

Imagine if Hamas was using the same tactics against the 13th century Mongols. The Mongols would simply exterminate the entire city without the slightest compunction, because they had a different moral code. Same is true of the way the Nazis dealt with the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto and other ghettos: They'd kill everyone as punishment for the actions of the few.

But Israel won't do that. And Hamas knows it.

Hamas, though its actions, is simply proving the moral superiority of the Jewish state.

74 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:56:31pm

re: #66 Occasional Reader

"Wanna do something cool today? Let's take Air Force One out with some cool Air Force jets, and get a picture of me, inside the plane saluting the fighter pilots as we pass the Statue of Liberty? That would be so awesome. And remember to take the blue M&Ms out of the new china on the plane, and make sure Beyonce is on my iPod, too."

75 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:56:31pm

Great video. Really shines a light on what Hamas are doing.

76 callahan23  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:57:15pm

re: #62 WriterMom

Well they can kiss my fine, Jewish I-ain't-gonna-submit-or-commit-suicide butt.

A thousand uppity up-dings. If I could!?! ;-)
Never again

77 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:57:53pm

re: #45 avanti

Why would the President be involved in a Air Force photo opp ?

Of course they wouldn't be! They just happened to by flying around with a plane in Air Force One livery... "hey, 'Maverick', how the hell did that get there?!"

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:58:30pm

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

I was thinking more of a perverted, Ward-Churchill-Leftist-faux-Indian thing: "Once, many moons ago, the herds of Jews covered this land, and we hunted them and were happy. Now the herds of Jews are gone, but we remember."

Well, my mom always said she would consider deer hunting a sport if they gave the deer guns. These buffalo are armed to the teeth.

79 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:58:53pm

re: #73 zombie

Hamas' main weapon is neither rockets nor mortars but instead the Israelis' sense of morality.

Hamas is protecting itself with the Jewish commandment to preserve innocent life at all costs.

Imagine if Hamas was using the same tactics against the 13th century Mongols. The Mongols would simply exterminate the entire city without the slightest compunction, because they had a different moral code. Same is true of the way the Nazis dealt with the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto and other ghettos: They'd kill everyone as punishment for the actions of the few.

But Israel won't do that. And Hamas knows it.

Hamas, though its actions, is simply proving the moral superiority of the Jewish state.

To follow up on what Zombie siad, consider this:

'Haniyeh hid in hospital during Gaza op'

"...Hamas believed that Israel would not target the hospital due to the high risk of collateral damage..."

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

80 researchok  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:58:55pm

re: #47 turn

Yes, she is- and posting great stuff.

81 vxbush  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:59:04pm

re: #43 Honorary Yooper

That buys a lot of rocket components.
Remind me again why anyone gives money to these barbaric Hamas fuckers?

And it is 8 TIMES the amount of money that Obama tried to eliminate from the budget in the last month.

82 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:59:24pm

re: #77 Occasional Reader

Don't bother...

83 dhg4  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:59:27pm

re: #28 MJ

Roger Cohen, the NYT resident Kapo and apologist for Ahmadinejad, is beside himself with excitement today as he too noticed that the State Department is about to fund Hamas:


[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Given that Cohen feels that Iranian Jews are well treated, why doesn't he retire from the NYT, move to Iran and start writing columns for Tehran Times? I'm sure Ahmadinejad & co. would love to have him.

Of course in this country he knows that the worst that will happen to him is that people will write nasty comments about his apologia for tyrants and terrorists. In Iran if he writes the wrong thing, he could end up at Evin.

84 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:59:28pm

re: #70 ConservatismNow!

I think you need to add flamethrowers in there somewhere. Needs more flamethrowers

It's true: Any video game benefits from a flamethrower here and there. Look what it did for Tetris when they added that as a "power up" - they re-branded it as "Call of Duty"

85 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:00:06pm
86 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:00:16pm

re: #79 MJ

To follow up on what Zombie siad, consider this:

'Haniyeh hid in hospital during Gaza op'

"...Hamas believed that Israel would not target the hospital due to the high risk of collateral damage..."

[Link: www.jpost.com...]


Part of that long list of Arab logic.

If Israel systematically targets civilians for liquidation, why would the Palestinians think that human sheilds would work?

87 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:00:18pm

re: #66 Occasional Reader

I rather doubt the F-16 was the problem, kids. It was the jumbo jet... in Air Force One livery... but we don't want THAT headline, do we? People might start wondering who had arranged for this "photo op".

Oh goodie, "Planegate." I guess someone will have to ask the POTUS if he ordered the picture for some unknown reason.

88 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:00:26pm

re: #81 vxbush

And it is 8 TIMES the amount of money that Obama tried to eliminate from the budget in the last month.

Nice tie-in; maybe Barry could save a bit of money by stop-paying that check, or do you think they've cashed it already?

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:00:43pm

re: #85 buzzsawmonkey

Well, the Hamasniks deserve it, on the grounds that they disavow middleclassness.

HOWL! I suppose they do.

90 Kragar  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:00:43pm

re: #70 ConservatismNow!

I think you need to add flamethrowers in there somewhere. Needs more flamethrowers

Actually, a halide system would be more effective, since you could put out underground fires, plus drain the oxygen out and suffocate any vermin remaining.

91 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:00:47pm

I haven't watched the video yet, but I assume it shows IDF troopers gleefully gunning down Hamas-run pediatrics wards and puppy adoption centers. That's pretty much what happens, right?

/

92 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:01:08pm

re: #86 Ben Hur

Have I got great tunes..you would be so jealous. Latest Sarit Haddad and Eyal Golan...

MEKUDESHET, MEKUDESHET LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Tni li lamooot kmo iver achareiychhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

93 Soona'  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:01:20pm

re: #36 Guanxi88

Couldn't we use these tunnels as holding talks for the waste and sewage backed up by HAMAS' theft of sewer pipe for use as rocket casings? Two birds with one stone, as it were?

Actually, you've backed into a very good idea. Israel should somehow connect their sewage system to these tunnels and then turn on the spigots. Give Hamas something that shows how much they're worth.

94 johnnyreb  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:01:25pm

re: #81 vxbush

And it is 8 TIMES the amount of money that Obama tried to eliminate from the budget in the last month.

Well I am pretty sure Hamas can save a bunch of money by buying rocket components in bulk.

95 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:01:44pm

re: #91 Occasional Reader

Don't forget the "baby-milk" factories, the ancestral olive groves and strawberry patches.

96 vxbush  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:01:47pm

re: #88 Guanxi88

Nice tie-in; maybe Barry could save a bit of money by stop-paying that check, or do you think they've cashed it already?

Well, it's being handed out by State, so I doubt we could get it back.

97 dhg4  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:01:54pm

re: #73 zombie

Hamas' main weapon is neither rockets nor mortars but instead the Israelis' sense of morality.

Hamas is protecting itself with the Jewish commandment to preserve innocent life at all costs.

Imagine if Hamas was using the same tactics against the 13th century Mongols. The Mongols would simply exterminate the entire city without the slightest compunction, because they had a different moral code. Same is true of the way the Nazis dealt with the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto and other ghettos: They'd kill everyone as punishment for the actions of the few.

But Israel won't do that. And Hamas knows it.

Hamas, though its actions, is simply proving the moral superiority of the Jewish state.

That, of course, is the more general point about Palestinians. If their enemies weren't the Israelis, they would have ceased to exist long ago. Imagine, for example, how successful they'd be in promoting their independence if Judea and Samaria had been in the hands of Jordan for the past 42 years.

98 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:02:07pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That's a good call. A twin system.

99 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:02:12pm

re: #93 Soona'

Actually, you've backed into a very good idea. Israel should somehow connect their sewage system to these tunnels and then turn on the spigots. Give Hamas something that shows how much they're worth.

Seems only fair - Gazan filth and sewage leaks into Israel all the time; why not return the favor?

100 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:02:19pm

re: #80 researchok

Yes, she is- and posting great stuff.

Great, I'm going back there daily from now on. I have that photo montage she had on her sight years ago pinned up on the wall right behind me:
"We don't want your Shar'ia
To hell with you oppression of women
to hell with your intolerance and hatred
we will stand for our values
and never surrender to your tyranny"

101 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:02:45pm

re: #66 Occasional Reader

I rather doubt the F-16 was the problem, kids. It was the jumbo jet... in Air Force One livery... but we don't want THAT headline, do we? People might start wondering who had arranged for this "photo op".

If this turns out to be another Obama stunt to keep the eternal campaign going, I hope NYers let him have it.

102 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:02:52pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

Gazan filth and sewage leaks into Israel all the time. Yes, and the stuff from the toilets also sometimes leaks into Israel.

103 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:02:54pm

re: #95 WriterMom

Don't forget the "baby-milk" factories, the ancestral olive groves and strawberry patches.

And the unicorn ranches.

104 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:03:11pm

re: #92 WriterMom

Have I got great tunes..you would be so jealous. Latest Sarit Haddad and Eyal Golan...

MEKUDESHET, MEKUDESHET LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Tni li lamooot kmo iver achareiychhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Not a big fan of Haddad. "Light the Candle" destroyed it for me. Saw her perform when I was in reserve duty one year. She came to preform at the security prison for a former soldier there that was royally f*cked up in a car accident. She has a good heart.

105 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:03:18pm

re: #86 Ben Hur

If Israel systematically targets civilians for liquidation, why would the Palestinians think that human sheilds would work?

Foolish Zionist! If your joo brain is too feeble to understand the complex Islamic mathematics involved in a "genocide" resulting in the tripling of the Palestinian population, then you have no hope of comprehending this, either.

106 vxbush  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:03:52pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

Seems only fair - Gazan filth and sewage leaks into Israel all the time; why not return the favor?

I like it.

107 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:03:55pm

re: #77 Occasional Reader

Of course they wouldn't be! They just happened to by flying around with a plane in Air Force One livery... "hey, 'Maverick', how the hell did that get there?!"

He was not in the plane, so it was not AF 1, and no one has suggested the White House asked the Air Force for the shoot. Please, give it a day before we find out why some Air Force PR guy wanted the shoot. If the POTUS ordered it, I'd share wanting to know the reason, but it makes no sense.

108 WriterMom  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:04:20pm

re: #104 Ben Hur

I like her. She also visits handicapped kids. But the Eyal Golan album is really good.

109 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:05:13pm

re: #101 Russkilitlover

If this turns out to be another Obama stunt to keep the eternal campaign going, I hope NYers let him have it.

Don't worry, avanti has already assured us that Obama had absolutely nothing to do with an Air Force One plane flying around accompanied by USAF fighters. Zero, nada, zilch. Plus, he was only 47 years old at the time this happened...

110 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:05:53pm

re: #102 WriterMom

Gazan filth and sewage leaks into Israel all the time. Yes, and the stuff from the toilets also sometimes leaks into Israel.


And from the PA terrortories. It's intentional. They've been sitting on, or more accurately, the money specifically donated by Germany and Saudi upon the signing of Olso for modern sewage plants, etc, found its way into Arafat and Cos bank accounts.

They don't want to fix it. They want them to wallow in sh*t (In areas they can bring the MSM)

Culture of Death.
Politics of Suffering.

111 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:06:03pm

re: #109 Occasional Reader

Don't worry, avanti has already assured us that Obama had absolutely nothing to do with an Air Force One plane flying around accompanied by USAF fighters. Zero, nada, zilch. Plus, he was only 47 years old at the time this happened...

Those aircraft were designed when Barry was a kid, and were built well before he got into office. Not his fault.

112 SummerSong  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:06:13pm

OT - Dusty Vet

Please check your email.

113 Dianna  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:06:19pm

re: #107 avanti

The only thing you've got right is that it makes no sense.

114 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:06:33pm

re: #107 avanti

He was not in the plane, so it was not AF 1, and no one has suggested the White House asked the Air Force for the shoot. Please, give it a day before we find out why some Air Force PR guy wanted the shoot. If the POTUS ordered it, I'd share wanting to know the reason, but it makes no sense.

Here's the real problem, it scared the shit out of people. The Air Force just apologized to the City of NY for the flyover.

How in the fuck does our Air Force, who should be acutely aware of air space situations, fly over a city, at that height, that had two planes run into a building, not a few miles away?

115 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:06:44pm

re: #66 Occasional Reader

I rather doubt the F-16 was the problem, kids. It was the jumbo jet... in Air Force One livery... but we don't want THAT headline, do we? People might start wondering who had arranged for this "photo op".

For some reason, flying low around tall buildings with a jumbo jet in New York City just strikes me as a very bad, very tasteless, and irresponsible idea.

I mean, it's not as though anyone ever used such a thing as a large jet to crash into tall buildings in New York City before.
/heavy sarc.

116 MJ  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:06:46pm

re: #97 dhg4

That, of course, is the more general point about Palestinians. If their enemies weren't the Israelis, they would have ceased to exist long ago. Imagine, for example, how successful they'd be in promoting their independence if Judea and Samaria had been in the hands of Jordan for the past 42 years.

Bret Stephens had a very good piece about that last week:

Our Selective Moral Outrage
Why does Israel face more opprobrium than Russia?

"...I have a hypothesis. Maybe the world attends to Palestinian grievances but not Chechen ones for the sole reason that Palestinians are, uniquely, the perceived victims of the Jewish state. That is, when they are not being victimized by other Palestinians. Or being expelled en masse from Kuwait. Or being excluded from the labor force in Lebanon. Things you probably didn't know about, either. As for the Chechens, too bad for their cause that no Jew will ever likely become president of Russia.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

117 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:07:55pm

re: #107 avanti

He was not in the plane, so it was not AF 1

Nice try on the "gotcha", but of course that's why I said "... in Air Force One livery".

Please, give it a day before we find out why some Air Force PR guy wanted the shoot. If the POTUS ordered it

Odd how you haven't "given it a day" before deciding that it was those schtoopid Air Force idiots who came up with this idea, with the White House being utterly blameless. Sorry, I find it hard to believe that the USAF just play around with the Presidential aircraft when POTUS isn't on board, without his permission.

118 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:07:58pm

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Here's the real problem, it scared the shit out of people. The Air Force just apologized to the City of NY for the flyover.

How in the fuck does our Air Force, who should be acutely aware of air space situations, fly over a city, at that height, that had two planes run into a building, not a few miles away?

They probably figured people forgot.

119 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:08:10pm

re: #109 Occasional Reader

Don't worry, avanti has already assured us that Obama had absolutely nothing to do with an Air Force One plane flying around accompanied by USAF fighters. Zero, nada, zilch. Plus, he was only 47 years old at the time this happened...

Hey, play up Planegate all you want, unlike you, I don't pretend to know who ordered the photo shoot and am willing to wait a few hours for some facts.

120 turn  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:08:29pm

re: #112 SummerSong

Is dusty here? My condolences man what a tragedy, at least it happened suddenly and wasn't a drawn out ailment.

121 itellu3times  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:08:45pm

re: #7 Thanos

The important thing to note here: the tunnels aren't just under the border, they are all through the city and used for logistics and terror. Here's what I said when I posted this over at my place:

There is no such thing as collateral damage in war.

122 Guanxi88  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:09:47pm

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Here's the real problem, it scared the shit out of people. The Air Force just apologized to the City of NY for the flyover.

How in the fuck does our Air Force, who should be acutely aware of air space situations, fly over a city, at that height, that had two planes run into a building, not a few miles away?

Reminds me of the Mr. Neutron episode/bit from Monty Python, with a USAF sound-truck driving through rubble apologizing for any inconvenience caused by their bombing.

Youtube Video
123 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:10:06pm

re: #116 MJ

Comparing the responses to Gaza and Chechnya

Every time a Russian diplomat says Israel is using "disproportionate force", I wish the Israelis would say
"Yes, we are. We will use your example of what you consider proportionate force, in the way you responded to Chechnya."

124 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:10:20pm

re: #118 Ben Hur

They probably figured people forgot.

At best, it's simply irresponsible to do that, especially in a city where almost 3,000 people died as the result of Islamic terrorists crashing two large planes into two tall towers. At worst, it gives the Troofers ammunition.

125 Desert Dog  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:10:23pm

You get what you vote for....the Palestinians voted for these monsters. They put them in power. There is not going to be a Palestinian Thomas Jefferson or George Washington stepping up to forge a nation of their own. They are content being propped up as victims and have no desire to help themselves. And, why should they? The West continues to lavish aid on them. The West continues to rationalize dealing with these animals. Every dime sent in this place is used to fuel to hatred.

Until the Palestinians help themselves, it will never be anything but this lunacy and perpetual war with Israel.

126 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:11:01pm

re: #119 avanti

Hey, play up Planegate all you want, unlike you, I don't pretend to know who ordered the photo shoot and am willing to wait a few hours for some facts.

No you're not. You've got your own set of assumptions you've touted out.

127 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:11:14pm

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Here's the real problem, it scared the shit out of people. The Air Force just apologized to the City of NY for the flyover.

How in the fuck does our Air Force, who should be acutely aware of air space situations, fly over a city, at that height, that had two planes run into a building, not a few miles away?

That I agree with, someone screwed up, we just don't know who yet. The Air Force did let the FAA and the city know, but asked the city to not publicize it.

128 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:11:18pm

re: #119 avanti

Hey, play up Planegate all you want, unlike you, I don't pretend to know who ordered the photo shoot and am willing to wait a few hours for some facts.

Since it was the backup for Air Force One, someone in the White House knows exactly what is going on, and it would not suprise me if that went to the top.

129 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:13:24pm

re: #128 Honorary Yooper

Since it was the backup for Air Force One, someone in the White House knows exactly what is going on, and it would not suprise me if that went to the top.

Perhaps it was a rogue event intended to make the C-I-C look bad - probably some sort of right wing thing.

130 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:13:45pm

re: #20 WriterMom

DUMBEST PRESIDENTIAL MOVE TODAY?

This is unbelievable...for a photo op.

I cant see what the problem would have been, I mean Bush is gone and President One has held the olive branch out, there is no more "torture" at Gitmo so no longer a reason for the islamists to seethe. Everyone should have known this was just a routine flyby........

////////

131 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:13:46pm

OT - Ot - OT - Update on DustyVet.

Ok, I got about 8 emails from Lizards who would like to help Dustyvet. I also got Dustyvet's address and phone number from him a few minutes ago, and I passed that on to you.

IF YOU EMAILED ME and have not received his address and phone number, please let me know. I had a lot of incoming and outgoing mail all floating around and I may have missed you.

132 albusteve  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:14:05pm

re: #119 avanti

Hey, play up Planegate all you want, unlike you, I don't pretend to know who ordered the photo shoot and am willing to wait a few hours for some facts.

it's his plane...it should not have been there...24hrs from now it will still be just that simple

133 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:14:15pm

I'm going to dissent here. I don't think that was a well-produced video.

I don't disagree with its content -- it's true, and I've seen the documentation for much of the practices in which it accuses Hamas of participating. The problem is that the video doesn't clearly cite any evidence. The computer-generated depictions of explosives and rocket launchers hidden amongst uninvolved civilians usually aren't even represented as depictions of actual neighborhoods. There are these little inset videos that are too hard to see clearly, some of which seem to have actual video footage of, say, explosives found in a mosque, but other ones just seem to be additional computer-generated graphics.

To me, the overall effect is just that it looks like the IDF is making things up, and drawing pictures representing their fictional account. I think they should have done this differently.

134 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:14:50pm

re: #127 avanti

That I agree with, someone screwed up, we just don't know who yet. The Air Force did let the FAA and the city know, but asked the city to not publicize it.

Well, we know it wasn't Chimpybush, don't we. Or would you like to expound on that? :()

135 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:15:24pm

Anyway, what I was going to say about this IDF vid on youtube is that its half life will be very short before it vanishes from the public gaze

136 Soona'  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:15:27pm

re: #109 Occasional Reader

Don't worry, avanti has already assured us that Obama had absolutely nothing to do with an Air Force One plane flying around accompanied by USAF fighters. Zero, nada, zilch. Plus, he was only 47 years old at the time this happened...

Obama: "Those aren't the Air Force One pilots that I knew".

137 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:16:41pm

re: #73 zombie

Hamas' main weapon is neither rockets nor mortars but instead the Israelis' sense of morality.

Hamas is protecting itself with the Jewish commandment to preserve innocent life at all costs.

Imagine if Hamas was using the same tactics against the 13th century Mongols. The Mongols would simply exterminate the entire city without the slightest compunction, because they had a different moral code. Same is true of the way the Nazis dealt with the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto and other ghettos: They'd kill everyone as punishment for the actions of the few.

But Israel won't do that. And Hamas knows it.

Hamas, though its actions, is simply proving the moral superiority of the Jewish state.

It's not just an opinion, this claim that the Mongols would have exterminated an entire city. They went and did it, back in the day. Bamiyan, Afghanistan, site of the mountain-carved Buddhas destroyed by the Taliban a decade or so ago, surrendered to the Mongol army when it came through, but rebelled when the Mongols moved on. Nothing wrong with that; Muslims are as much entitled to a philosophy of "live free or die" as Vermonters. But the Mongols had a philosophy too: try to live free, and you will die.

Bamiyan was besieged, and when it fell, it was put to the sword.

Ancient war could be pitiless. It's a good thing we don't make that our custom any longer. A `no quarter' cultural mindset for war, coupled with today's weapons, is a recipe for civilizational collapse.

138 Soona'  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:18:16pm

re: #128 Honorary Yooper

Since it was the backup for Air Force One, someone in the White House knows exactly what is going on, and it would not suprise me if that went to the top.

I don't know why NYC is getting their panties in a wad here. Everyone in the city knows the towers were brought down by explosives planted by the evil Dick Cheney.

139 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:27:21pm

re: #134 Walter L. Newton

Well, we know it wasn't Chimpybush, don't we. Or would you like to expound on that? :()

Apparently, the info about the flight was not passed on to the mayor:

Angry that an unnamed but "dumb" city official failed to notify him of the Pentagon's plans, Bloomberg said a flyover so close to Ground Zero was insensitive and showed "poor judgement."

He said the first he knew of it was when his BlackBerry began buzzing.

It "defies the imagination," said Bloomberg, who insisted he would have tried to stop the shoot had he known about it.

The shoot and training mission was planned by the White House military office:

CBS 2 has learned the jets were part of a Department of Defense photo shoot and that there was no threat to the city.

The head of the White House Military Office issued an apology just after 4:30 p.m.

CBS 2 has learned the jets were part of a Department of Defense photo shoot and that there was no threat to the city.

"Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision. While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it's clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused," Director Louis Caldera said in a statement.

140 avanti  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:30:49pm

re: #128 Honorary Yooper

Since it was the backup for Air Force One, someone in the White House knows exactly what is going on, and it would not suprise me if that went to the top.

You are correct, amd we have a name. see my
link

141 tripletdad  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:43:58pm

That Rodenator thing would be a good tool for that tunneling varmint problem, just industrial sized.

142 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:49:53pm

Thanks Charles for once again doing the world a service through your unwavering devotion to decency and truth.

143 abolitionist  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:56:31pm

Further commentary on a map shown in the posted video:
IDF Captures Hamas Intelligence Map - Lt. Barak Raz - 10 Jan. 2009
"This is our enemy and this is how they fight."

144 itellu3times  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 2:57:45pm

re: #73 zombie

Hamas is protecting itself with the Jewish commandment to preserve innocent life at all costs.
...
Hamas, though its actions, is simply proving the moral superiority of the Jewish state.

Remains to be seen.

Comes down to, just who is innocent.

145 Querent  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:04:00pm

re: #36 Guanxi88

Couldn't we use these tunnels as holding talks for the waste and sewage backed up by HAMAS' theft of sewer pipe for use as rocket casings? Two birds with one stone, as it were?

to paraphrase a Dilbert cartoon, i like the way you stink think

146 Totally Berserk  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:08:42pm

Pretty generous of the IDF to categorize the civilians as 'uninvolved.' Who was it that elected Hamas by a significant majority anyway?

147 Joan Not of Arc  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:26:55pm

I asked someone to explain why Israel should not defend itself against Iran and I got in response (I swear to God) the argument that Iran does protect all religions and Israel does not. In fact, Iran, according to this person, is quite an enlightened place.
I submit that the preceding video- or anything else, for that matter- would have no effect on the individual in question.

148 nantucket  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:33:30pm

history is littered with nations/peoples/etc. that were destroyed/defeated because they fought by one set of rules and their enemies fought by a different set of rules. two examples:

The English defeated the French at Agincourt because the English used peasant farmers to shoot arrows at the French knights/nobles. At the time, the French saw it as cowardly and outside the bounds of proper war etiquette to have peasants fight nobles, and to shoot arrows from a distance. Guess what, the French got slaughtered.

The American revolution. Colonists used hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare. It was seen as uncivilized and beneath the English to fight that way, so they fought as trained (march straight on, face the enemy in open areas, etc) Well....the colonists did it because they couldn't win enough in direct battles and we won our independence.

Sometimes, you have to use the tactics of your enemy to defeat that enemy because the enemy will certainly use your tactics against you.

Kudos to Israel for pointing out the dirty tactics used by their enemies and showing restraint in the face of such evil...let's hope Israel knows how much to adapt to defeat the enemy and not fall into the terrible trap of following one set of rules while the enemy doesn't.

149 yochanan  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:58:24pm

re: #139 avanti

heads should roll over this, just proves that the obama administration doesn't get it.

150 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 4:55:54pm

Great video, but where are the roosters?

151 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 4:57:34pm

re: #10 ConservatismNow!

The graphics could be better, but I'd play that game. On the IDF side of course.

I would like to see the final cut scene where they kill the boss monster.

152 Captain Cool  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 5:28:02pm

re: #148 nantucket

This is the whole problem with "International Law". You cant expect countries to do whats against their interests in war. There might be rules of conduct in certain regions but they only work when both sides follow them. Rules like those set in the Geneva Conventions were designed for wars among European Nations. They dont work when fighting a radically different culture like that of the Palestinians.

153 BLBfootballs  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 5:50:41pm

Wow, I'm kind of surprised to see competent informative PR coming from Israel. But this is a very good video.

Unfortunately for everyone the Palestinians have already chosen their own fate. If the very concept of terrorism can have a national embodiment it would be the Palestinians. Their gig can only last so long as the West chooses to preserve its willful blindness. But we all know how this story must end: when the eyes come open and the chips go down, it's curtains for Palestine.

154 Bill K.  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 10:56:44pm

Of course Hamas are savages and it is proper that Israel reveals their reprehensible tactics but Israel must not allow this to put IDF soldiers at risk. If Israeli soldiers are being fired at from behind human shields they must not hesitate but return fire. Any deaths or injuries to the civilian shields are Hamas's fault alone. It is immoral to sacrifice the lives of your soldiers for the sake of the enemies civilians.

It would also right and necessary for Israel to point out that the population of Gaza elected Hamas on the explicit promise war would be waged on Israel. If during this war Hamas then uses the local population as cannon fodder, the fault obviously lies with those who elected these monsters in the first place.

Israel and any civilized nation must be uncompromising on these points. If you allow the use of human shields by the enemy to impede your destruction of them, they will do it again and again and set the example for other savages.

155 purple  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:14:02am

Great video! Thank you Charles.

156 Red Lion  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:36:02pm

Good video. Not that it will convince any who've drunk the Palestinian Kool aid ...


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