President Apologizes for Air Force One Overflight

US News • Views: 2,104

As expected, President Obama apologized this morning for the ridiculously stupid Air Force One flight over New York City: POTUS on AF1 incident: ‘Mistake … Won’t Happen Again’.

President Obama just spoke about the Air Force One incident in a photo op with FBI Director Robert Mueller.

“It was a mistake, as was stated. It was something we found out about along with all of you. And it will not happen again.”

President Obama didn’t answer a follow-up question on whether the head of White House Military Office, Louis Caldera, is the right man for the job.

He’s getting very good at apologizing. But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

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656 comments

1 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:12:18am

Unbelievable.

BREAKING: Arlen Specter reportedly switching from GOP to Democratic Party.

2 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:12:31am

It was part of the stimulus! It employed pilots, and a photographer, and all kinds of people!

3 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:12:36am
4 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:12:49am

This was without question the best White House idea since FDR's epic "torpedo plane 'salute to Pearl Harbor' flyover" in January 1942.

/

5 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:13:26am

"Money being wasted on stupid, unnecessary extravagances"

Nomination for rotating title / Top left hand column at LGF...

6 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:13:40am

" It was something we found out about along with all of you. "

Ah, no one in the White House new about it ahead of time. It must have been planned by Bush.

/

7 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:13:40am

re: #2 quickjustice

It was part of the stimulus! It employed pilots, and a photographer, and all kinds of people!

You're catching on! Under current "stimulus" thinking, there's no such thing as "wasting money".

8 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:13:49am

This should be up on Failblog.

9 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:13:53am
But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on stupid, unnecessary extravagances like this?

The same question was brought up at the dinner table last night. Couldn't we just photoshop the plane into the NYC background? Also why is the photo opportunity "classified." Is this an incredibly expensive picture of Air Force One that we aren't even allowed to see?

10 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:14:26am

re: #1 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Specter started out his political career as a Democrat, and then switched. Given his age and poor health, he should be retiring from politics, but he'll cling to power until they pry it from his cold, dead hands.

11 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:14:45am

I know Nothing, I see Nothing, I hear Nothing.

Sgt Schultz?

Nope Barrack Obama

12 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:14:51am

Next up: As part of the stimulus package, the White House will mail out envelopes to every American containing a free sample of talcum powder.

13 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:14:59am

Specter looks like a old wizened penis.

14 carefulnow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:01am

re: #8 Creeping Eruption

That's a good idea.

15 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:24am

re: #8 Creeping Eruption

This should be up on Failblog.

All hail the Anti-Sully!

16 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:24am

Watching the Obama administration is like watching a small child with a loaded gun.

Eventually someone is going to get hurt.

17 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:29am

Can't the manufacturer provide pictures of this plane?

Why does Air Force One need "publicity" shots? For Hollywood or propaganda purposes?

To give away as signed gifts for people who ride aboard Air Force One with the President?

Hubris, & let them eat cake, Marie Antoinette mentality.

18 slterry40  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:39am

We will all be dead from the swine flu long before the pictures are developed.

19 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:42am

In the light of the aftermath of 9/11/2001, a close and low flyby of lower Manhattan with a large plane is a very, very bad and irresponsible idea.

Not only is it a waste of fuel, not only is it a waste of manpower, but is it a foolish and irresponsible thing for the administration to do with regards to that horriffic morning and the people who live there with the memory of it.

In addition, this stunt only provides ammunition for the Troofers. It makes me sick.

20 gymmom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:46am

What does he mean “It was a mistake, as was stated. It was something we found out about along with all of you. And it will not happen again.” Does he really not know where his plane is?! Who is in charge?!

21 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:15:57am

As a resident of NYC and a person who works in Midtown Manhattan, apology not accepted...

Moron...

22 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:01am

re: #17 alegrias

Can't the manufacturer provide pictures of this plane?

Why does Air Force One need "publicity" shots? For Hollywood or propaganda purposes?

To give away as signed gifts for people who ride aboard Air Force One with the President?

Hubris, & let them eat cake, Marie Antoinette mentality.

Maybe the History channel needed more footage?

23 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:04am
But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on stupid, unnecessary extravagances like this?

Not really the stimulus New Yorkers were looking for.

24 Biocritic  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:19am

Imagine the carbon footprint! And another polar bear bites the ice.

25 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:21am

Nice photo op... Does the Prez think he is Howard Hughes now?

26 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:29am

The lady who fell down the staircase while fleeing in the general panic was seriously injured. She won't get a penny.

27 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:44am

re: #4 Occasional Reader

This was without question the best White House idea since FDR's epic "torpedo plane 'salute to Pearl Harbor' flyover" in January 1942.

/

Hilarious!

28 carefulnow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:44am

re: #13 Nevergiveup

That's an insult to old penises everywhere.

29 MJ  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:49am

Why doesn't someone ask if Robert Gibbs is the person for the job?

30 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:16:59am

re: #23 Sharmuta

Not really the stimulus New Yorkers were looking for.

In a related story, sales of underpants skyrocketed after the flyby

31 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:17:01am

re: #20 gymmom

What does he mean “It was a mistake, as was stated. It was something we found out about along with all of you.

He misspoke slightly. He meant to say, "I was only 47 years old when this happened."

32 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:17:11am

What was the purpose of the flyover, and who was photoshoot for?

33 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:17:13am

Personally if the Dems run him in 2010, I think they are making a mistake. As far as PA goes, this might be good for us. He might be the weakest candidate the Dems could run.

34 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:17:18am

Charles:

...at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

And don't forget all the fuel burned and carbon spewed while he's lecturing us about global warming.

35 slterry40  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:17:31am

re: #23 Sharmuta

Not really the stimulus New Yorkers were looking for.

It may stimulate the sale of laundry detergent, for the people who are going to clean up after crapping their pants. That had to be frightening for everyone down there

36 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:17:36am

Specter, Moderate Republican
Lieberman, Moderate Democrat.
Olympia Snow Moderate Republican

OK, lets do a trade here.
Lieberman for Specter, and Snow, and 2 second round draft picks, and cash considerations

37 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:17:39am

re: #23 Sharmuta

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

38 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:18:17am

OT

Specter says he's a model GOP member who can win elections. Blames Republicans for cannibalizing themselves.

Handing the Democrats a majority.

I'd say he's a politician for life willing to do whatever it takes, to stay in power. And the Dems have promised him rewards for switching, like when they wooed Mr. Jeffords to switch in 2001, and flip majorities to favor the Dems and away from Pres. Bush's GOP majority.

39 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:18:19am

This stunt left something more like a carbon boot-print, not foot print.

40 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:18:31am

re: #22 Nevergiveup

Maybe the History channel needed more footage?

They make up their own, and pretty badly sometimes.
The wrong aircraft over NY at the wrong year would be perfectly up to their standards.

(I forgot the show where they were talking about Gen. Billy Mitchell, and what he did in WWI, with footage of WWII aircraft fighting.)

41 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:18:31am
He’s getting very good at apologizing. But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

It isn't money wasted...It is part of the Stimulus!

/

42 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:18:55am

re: #38 alegrias

Pat Toomey will have a legit shot to beat Specter...

43 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:19:07am

No amount of breathtaking idiocy surprises me anymore.

44 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:19:08am

re: #13 Nevergiveup

Specter looks like a old wizened penis.

That's an insult to penis's (penii?,penis'?) everywhere

45 iceman1960  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:19:20am

What was Zero thinking? Seriously he couldn't get someone at Rueters or AP to shop this photo for him?

46 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:19:30am

re: #42 tfc3rid

Pat Toomey will have a legit shot to beat Specter...

In polls of the Primary that was to be Toomey was up by 20 points

47 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:19:48am

re: #36 smokefire

Specter, Moderate Republican
Lieberman, Moderate Democrat.
Olympia Snow Moderate Republican

OK, lets do a trade here.
Lieberman for Specter, and Snow, and 2 second round draft picks, and cash considerations

I'm fine with that, as long as the Bears get a good wide receiver out of the deal.

48 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:19:53am

I read this version this morning.

The final sentence:

The director of the White House military office has apologized for the incident.

It appears someone - the director of the WH military office - found it necessary to apologize. That leads me to suspect that it was at least known - and perhaps authorized - by someone there.

49 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:19:59am

re: #37 Walter L. Newton

I saw and replied.

50 pat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:02am

Specter is the model politician: it is all about power and arrogance.

51 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:07am

I think I saw something this morning where they canceled a similar flyover of Washington DC.

52 midwestgak  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:08am

On Drudge

"On Monday, one of the Boeing 747s used by Obama and an F-16 jet circled the Statue of Liberty at the start of the work day, startling workers in lower Manhattan who feared a nightmarish replay of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The flight was carried out by the Defense Department. The director of the White House military office has apologized for the incident."

Incident?

How about SNAFU!

53 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:20am
“It was a mistake, as was stated. It was something we found out about along with all of you. And it will not happen again.”

Maybe he is just beginning to figure out that 9/11 was a big deal to some people?

54 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:22am

Your final question's a good one.

I'm still goggling at the thought, though, that anyone would think that photo-op a good thing.

I said last night, and I stand by it, that I've never been that drunk, that hung-over, or that over-caffeinated.

55 snowcrash  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:24am

Clueless and unfeeling. I can't even watch the video without getting anxious. Poor New Yorkers, "sorry" isn't enough for the fear they experienced so the White House could get updated photo's of A.F.1. Probably use the photos as cheesy gifts for visiting dignitaries.

56 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:28am

0bama took this seriously enough to take time from apologizing to our enemies, to apologize to his citizens.
Now when he apologizes for just about everything else he's done...

57 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:33am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

I'm fine with that, as long as the Bears get a good wide receiver out of the deal.

B. Frank is going to represent Chicago now?

58 Lee Coller  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:33am

Maybe someone should tell Obama what happened on 9/11?

59 slterry40  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:45am

I could photoshop the exact picture they want in about five minutes, and it wouldn't have cost a cent. Apparently the "new era of fiscal responsibility" in DC includes wasting at least $100,000 on a completely unnecessary photo, that could have easily been created with the standard photo shop equipment on a PC.

60 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:20:57am

I don't know what they were thinking not letting the public know about it. Sheer stupidity.

61 Dave the.....  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:02am
Unbelievable.

BREAKING: Arlen Specter reportedly switching from GOP to Democratic Party.

We're fucked. Hey Minnesota, you elected crazy Al Franken. Now that really means something. Thanks a lot, losers.

62 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:07am

re: #17 alegrias

Can't the manufacturer provide pictures of this plane?

Why does Air Force One need "publicity" shots? For Hollywood or propaganda purposes?

To give away as signed gifts for people who ride aboard Air Force One with the President?

Hubris, & let them eat cake, Marie Antoinette mentality.

What I heard was that it was to be part of the White House web site. Which makes deniability claims a little dubious.

63 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:11am

re: #53 Rednek

Maybe he is just beginning to figure out that 9/11 was a big deal to some people?

The White House though the folks here in NYC were over it... Jeez, America, get OVER 9/11... It's ancient history...

/

64 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:21am

re: #59 slterry40

I could photoshop the exact picture they want in about five minutes, and it wouldn't have cost a cent. Apparently the "new era of fiscal responsibility" in DC includes wasting at least $100,000 on a completely unnecessary photo, that could have easily been created with the standard photo shop equipment on a PC.

$100,000 is a very low estimate of the cost.

65 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:27am

re: #58 Lee Coller

Maybe someone should tell Obama what happened on 9/11?

* * * *
Nancy Pelosi can't recall either.

66 Emerald  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:29am

This is endemic of his whole campaign. He goes for things that are flashy and showy, but devoid of any real depth, meaning or reason. It's the whole mentality of it looks cool, who cares if it actually does anything.

67 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:29am

"I'm sorry my effing Homeland Security Head didn't know anything about this."

"I'm sorry no one in my offices knew about this."

"I'm sorry my press sec could only look like a deer in the headlights."

"I'm sorry I've hired or appointed half-wit boobs to fill key national positions."

"I'm sorry if you all have discovered that America's ass is bent over and exposed to every terrorist imaginable."

Mea culpa......giggle, giggle, giggle giggle.

68 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:31am

re: #58 Lee Coller

Maybe someone should tell Obama what happened on 9/11?

We could send him a copy of United 93.

69 redstateredneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:35am

re: #52 midwestgak

How could anyone with half a brain think this was a good idea?

70 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:41am

re: #19 Honorary Yooper

In the light of the aftermath of 9/11/2001, a close and low flyby of lower Manhattan with a large plane is a very, very bad and irresponsible idea.

Not only is it a waste of fuel, not only is it a waste of manpower, but is it a foolish and irresponsible thing for the administration to do with regards to that horrific morning and the people who live there with the memory of it.

In addition, this stunt only provides ammunition for the Troofers. It makes me sick.

Also, think of all the money lost by businesses who's employees were out in the streets and not at their desks working.

71 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:42am

How soon before Alex Jones, and the truthers start to spin this?

72 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:47am

re: #55 snowcrash

Clueless and unfeeling. I can't even watch the video without getting anxious. Poor New Yorkers, "sorry" isn't enough for the fear they experienced so the White House could get updated photo's of A.F.1. Probably use the photos as cheesy gifts for visiting dignitaries.

He'll give a framed print when he meets with Osama.
/

73 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:21:50am

re: #57 Creeping Eruption

B. Frank is going to represent Chicago now?

No, but I like the joke. :)

74 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:22:04am

You silly sheeple, it's ALL MINE !
The Air, The Earth, All Of It !

/Totus

75 carefulnow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:22:25am

re: #44 Mr Spiffy

GMTA

76 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:22:26am

As I said on the dead thread...

Imagine if NYC buildings had installed anti-aircraft weaponry to prevent another 9.11 from happening...

Also, does this show our enemies that Manhattan can still be penetrated by air and by surprise?

77 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:22:26am

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

I think I saw something this morning where they canceled a similar flyover of Washington DC.

It would probably cause less of a stir here... Washingtonians are used to seeing commercial jets flying pretty close, due to the proximity of National Airport.

78 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:22:39am
the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

Ego. The unquenchable thirst of Obama's narcissistic ego.

79 Dave the.....  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:22:50am

File this under "imagine if Bush would have done this".

Barry cannot fill federal postion, including those who will deal with the swine flu. But hey, he was out golfing this week. Maybe he should stop vacationing on the golf course and try to get these positions filled. Barry golfed, people died.

80 badger1970  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:02am

Scary video, people panicked and all the wh can come up with is "Sorry, won't happen again."?

re: #1 Who Watches the Watchmen?

One of W greatest mistakes was backing that pos.

81 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:15am

re: #29 MJ

Why doesn't someone ask if Robert Gibbs is the person for the job?

Why doesn't someone ask if Obama is the person for the job?

82 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:15am

re: #58 Lee Coller

Maybe someone should tell Obama what happened on 9/11?

According to Robert Gibbs, '9/11 was a terrible, awful incident.'

/

83 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:20am

re: #61 Dave the.....

We're fucked. Hey Minnesota, you elected crazy Al Franken. Now that really means something. Thanks a lot, losers.

No- Minnesota didn't elect Franken. He litigated himself a victory.

84 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:24am

re: #69 redstateredneck

How could anyone with half a brain think this was a good idea?

Does anyone in the Obama administration have half a brain, much less a working brain stem?

85 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:25am

re: #77 Occasional Reader

It would probably cause less of a stir here... Washingtonians are used to seeing commercial jets flying pretty close, due to the proximity of National Airport.

Not followed closely by fighter jets.

86 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:35am
"It was something we found out about along with all of you. And it will not happen again.”

He didn't even know where his plane was? Clueless putz.

87 redstateredneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:36am

re: #80 badger1970

Scary video, people panicked and all the wh can come up with is "Sorry, won't happen again."?

One of W greatest mistakes was backing that pos.

My kids always said they were sorry when they got caught, too.

88 MJ  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:37am

re: #29 MJ

Why doesn't someone ask if Robert Gibbs is the person for the job?

Gibbs yesterday:

Second question, do you guys feel you owe folks in New York City this morning an apology for this incident having to do with the airplane that looks like Air Force One with two fighter jets? There seemed to be a lot of panic --

MR. GIBBS: I would point you to the FAA or Air Force.

Q Everybody's pointing us to the White House Military Office, so that's why --

MR. GIBBS: Well, then I would contact the White House --

Q Well, the White House Military Office won't tell us anything -- they'll refer us to you. (Laughter.)

MR. GIBBS: Well, then let me go discuss with the White House Military -- I don't -- I have seen some news reports but --

Q What was the photo op for?

MR. GIBBS: I don't know. That's -- I have no information on this other than what I saw --

Q I mean, I understand the way this works. I'm just saying, appearance-wise, it's odd that you guys don't have a response. I mean, this is the President's aircraft or what looks like --

MR. GIBBS: I understand. I was working on other things. You might be surprised to know I don't know of every movement of Air Force One or what happens to it. But I will certainly talk to the Military Office.

How dare the Press ask me a question about this.

89 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:43am

re: #71 Buck

How soon before Alex Jones, and the truthers start to spin this?

They did, same day:

[Link: www.prisonplanet.com...]

Click if you dare.

90 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:45am

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

I think I saw something this morning where they canceled a similar flyover of Washington DC.

Let me guess? They were going to fly over the Pentagon.

91 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:47am

61 Dave the.....

Seriously.

What a douchebag he is - switching parties just so he has a chance of re-election - and what an unprincipled traitor.

92 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:56am

Does this mean, he will be making another apology tour, this time in NY?

93 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:56am

re: #71 Buck

How soon before Alex Jones, and the truthers start to spin this?

That's my number one concern about this right now. It's nothing but gold for Alex Jones and his ilk.

94 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:23:57am

re: #81 Son of the Black Dog

Why doesn't someone ask if Obama is the person for the job?

Most of us here do on a daily basis, and the consistent reply is "He isn't."

95 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:04am

re: #68 Sharmuta

re: #58 Lee Coller

Maybe someone should tell Obama what happened on 9/11?

We could send him a copy of United 93.

Too late. He's seen Loose Change and knows the troof!

96 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:06am

re: #1 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Unbelievable.

BREAKING: Arlen Specter reportedly switching from GOP to Democratic Party.

Let me search for the right word here..............um...........Oh yeah.....here we go.
Fuck Arlen Specter.

97 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:33am

re: #58 Lee Coller

Maybe someone should tell Obama what happened on 9/11?

All he can recall is something about chickens.

98 Kilroy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:42am

Hopefully this is as bad as it gets for New Yorkers. Duck and cover!

99 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:43am

re: #82 tfc3rid

According to Robert Gibbs, '9/11 was a terrible, awful incident.'

/

NO, it was a MAN MADE DISASTER.

100 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:49am

re: #80 badger1970

Scary video, people panicked and all the wh can come up with is "Sorry, won't happen again."?

Well, it's a little late for anything else. Really.

It would have been preferable if someone with half a brain had said, "This is a bad idea" instead. But once it was done (and I'm wondering how come no one spoke up), "Sorry, won't happen again" is about all you can do.

101 redstateredneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:53am

re: #96 LGoPs

Let me search for the right word here..............um...........Oh yeah.....here we go.
Fuck Arlen Specter.

Well said.

102 avanti  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:57am

re: #9 simonml

The same question was brought up at the dinner table last night. Couldn't we just photoshop the plane into the NYC background? Also why is the photo opportunity "classified." Is this an incredibly expensive picture of Air Force One that we aren't even allowed to see?

From what I read, it was claimed as a cost cutting move, by combining the photo shoot with a needed training exercise. I can't comment on if the new AF1 pilots need training flights, but that was the story.

103 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:00am

re: #83 Sharmuta

No- Minnesota didn't elect Franken. He litigated himself a victory.

You can also alternatively say that Mr. Franken was "elected" to the Senate...

104 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:12am

re: #45 iceman1960

What was Zero thinking? Seriously he couldn't get someone at Rueters or AP to shop this photo for him?

Obama wasn't thinking anything, this was not done by him. As I posted on the open thread...

He has many departments in his administration and I suspect he doesn't know the daily roster of tasks for each and every one of them.

This flyover and picture had nothing directly to do with him, so I wouldn't expect him to know it was taking place.

From what I have read, this is sort of grunt stuff, getting these pictures and updating website and having the picture available to press requests etc.

No, I would not expect or want Obama to be saddled with these sort of mundane tasks at all.

Yes, this is a problem, but it was not caused by the president.

Having said that, I hope he makes sure this doesn't happen again.

105 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:20am

re: #93 Honorary Yooper

That's my number one concern about this right now. It's nothing but gold for Alex Jones and his ilk.

Like a sort of Rumpelstiltskin on acid, Jones et al can spin the strawman of Illuminati conspiracy into pure marketing gold.

106 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:27am

Awww, former GOP Sen. Specter was wooed to switch to the dems' side by Sen. Harry Reid for five years!

Specter will join in with Democrat weekly talking points meetings.

Tom Harkin the creepy Iowa democrat's going to talk about this consummated romance on Fox News shortly.

107 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:27am

re: #79 Dave the.....

File this under "imagine if Bush would have done this".

Barry cannot fill federal postion, including those who will deal with the swine flu. But hey, he was out golfing this week. Maybe he should stop vacationing on the golf course and try to get these positions filled. Barry golfed, people died.

This could be the start of a great meme:

Imagine if Bush had.....

C'mon everyone. Try it out!

108 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:28am

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

Not followed closely by fighter jets.

Good point. Although I think the jumbo jet would also have been recognized more quickly here, or just assumed to be AF1 (which we see from time to time).

And we do see CAPs sometimes... I saw a pair of F-16s fly over the city just a couple of weeks ago.

109 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:30am

83 Sharmuta

You sound like a BDSer whining about Florida.

Whatever - the dems will have a filibuster-free senate.

110 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:32am

re: #81 Son of the Black Dog

Why doesn't someone ask if Obama is the person for the job?

We did. It didn't do any good, because 52% of Americans decided he was.

111 MJ  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:42am

Specter To Switch Parties
By CARL HULSE

Ryan McFadden/Reading Eagle, via Associated Press

Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania said he would switch to the Democratic party Tuesday, potentially presenting Democrats with a possible 60th vote and the power to break Senate filibusters as they try to advance the Obama administration’s new agenda.

Congressional aides and others close to the long-time Republican party maverick said Mr. Specter, who faced a difficult re-election next year, was going to announce he would become a Democrat...

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

112 iceman1960  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:43am

re: #54 Dianna

Your final question's a good one.

I'm still goggling at the thought, though, that anyone would think that photo-op a good thing.

I said last night, and I stand by it, that I've never been that drunk, that hung-over, or that over-caffeinated.

Oh yeah blame it on the JUICE.
Death to the Juice.

113 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:25:54am

re: #60 Sharmuta

I don't know what they were thinking not letting the public know about it. Sheer stupidity.

Avanti has a perfectly plausible... - sorry, I'm laughing.

114 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:26:10am

re: #83 Sharmuta

No- Minnesota didn't elect Franken. He litigated himself a victory.

* * *
and third party voters split the difference that could have made a difference.

115 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:26:15am

Specter has changed parties. He's blaming it on the GOP moving to the right, rather than his own political views moving steadily to the left since becoming Senator in January 1981. He's the fifth oldest Senator, has had health issues, and still thinks he should continue serving? I think he's better off serving the people of PA by retiring and letting fresh blood into the Senate.

116 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:26:35am

re: #100 Dianna

But once it was done (and I'm wondering how come no one spoke up), "Sorry, won't happen again" is about all you can do.

Obama should resign, and turn himself in to the International Criminal Court!

//

117 Dave the.....  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:26:37am

Sharmuta

No- Minnesota didn't elect Franken. He litigated himself a victory.

Correct. Powerline detailed how Crazy Al's people totally out hustled Coleman's. Such as locating rejected ballots that were probably Democrat votes, and challenging them to be ruled valid.

Also, Democrat cities have the philosophy that everyone who wants to vote should be able to. So they were vary liberal on allowing improper ballots to count. Republican districts followed the law to the letter, so more were rejected.

118 Gella  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:26:54am

what took him so long? was he distracted by his golf game? vacation?

119 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:04am

re: #116 Occasional Reader

Obama should resign, and turn himself in to the International Criminal Court!

//

FTFY

120 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:08am

re: #110 Dianna

We did. It didn't do any good, because 52% of Americans decided he was.

52% of the people who voted did... Not 52% of americans...

121 Lee Coller  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:13am

re: #115 lawhawk

Specter has changed parties. He's blaming it on the GOP moving to the right, rather than his own political views moving steadily to the left since becoming Senator in January 1981. He's the fifth oldest Senator, has had health issues, and still thinks he should continue serving? I think he's better off serving the people of PA by retiring and letting fresh blood into the Senate.

With Franken that gives the Dems a fillerbuster proof majority.

122 medaura18586  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:26am
But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

Exactly. Why was this "photoshoot" needed? Couldn't they just Photoshop the Statue of Liberty or whatever monument they pleased, side by side the plane? Who is this marketing effort directed at?

Beyond the pale...

123 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:30am

re: #89 Guanxi88

They did, same day:

[Link: www.prisonplanet.com...]

Click if you dare.

[I reported it to Charles to show how this is already entering Troofer circles.]

Ah shit, what I feared from this is already starting. Jones and the Troofers will use this as ammunition for their perverted crappola.

Thanks a lot, you assholes in the White House who allowed this to happen.

124 songbird  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:32am

The whole administration is looking like a middle school skit.

Very little coordination, communication, or planning - and a ton of EGO.

125 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:34am

re: #115 lawhawk

Specter has changed parties. He's blaming it on the GOP moving to the right, rather than his own political views moving steadily to the left since becoming Senator in January 1981. He's the fifth oldest Senator, has had health issues, and still thinks he should continue serving? I think he's better off serving the people of PA by retiring and letting fresh blood into the Senate.

I don't want a man with no loyalties in any fox hole with me!

126 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:34am

re: #36 smokefire

Specter, Moderate Republican
Lieberman, Moderate Democrat.
Olympia Snow Moderate Republican

OK, lets do a trade here.
Lieberman for Specter, and Snow, and 2 second round draft picks, and cash considerations

Nope; apparently, to give up Lieberman, they want Specter, Snowe, and Susan Collins, too.

127 Land Shark  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:47am

The Kiddie Patrol Administration strikes again. How many thousands of dollars did this silly photo-op cost us? Plus the sheer lack of common sense, I mean, didn't they realize in this post 9/11 world what the reaction would be? In New York City? C'mon!

128 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:27:59am

re: #116 Occasional Reader

Obama should resign, and turn himself in to the International Criminal Court!

//

Grrr... that's what I wanted the first time...

129 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:28:01am

re: #116 Occasional Reader

Obama should resign, and turn himself in to the International Criminal Court!

//

re: #119 MrSilverDragon

FTFY

For the record, much as I disapprove of Teh One and his doings and plannings, I want no American subject to the jurisdiction of the ICC. Ever.

130 yma o hyd  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:28:24am

re: #104 Walter L. Newton

Obama wasn't thinking anything, this was not done by him. As I posted on the open thread...

He has many departments in his administration and I suspect he doesn't know the daily roster of tasks for each and every one of them.

This flyover and picture had nothing directly to do with him, so I wouldn't expect him to know it was taking place.

From what I have read, this is sort of grunt stuff, getting these pictures and updating website and having the picture available to press requests etc.

No, I would not expect or want Obama to be saddled with these sort of mundane tasks at all.

Yes, this is a problem, but it was not caused by the president.

Having said that, I hope he makes sure this doesn't happen again.

Sure - but I seem to remember a former Pres, called harry Truman, who allegedly had a sign on his desk which said 'The buck stops here.'

No, PB0 doesn't sign off on everything - thats what his staff are there for.
But he is responsible for actually appointing said staff.

131 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:28:25am

re: #90 KenJen

Let me guess? They were going to fly over the Pentagon.

Around 1980, I was in the Pentagon for a couple of days (I don't know what I worked on; they didn't tell me), and I was surprised to see aircraft flying over on their way to then-National Airport.

132 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:28:29am

re: #95 Kenneth

re: #58 Lee Coller

Maybe someone should tell Obama what happened on 9/11?

We could send him a copy of United 93.

Too late. He's seen Loose Change and knows the troof!

Gordon Brown could send him a copy with the wrong country code.

133 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:28:32am

re: #99 smokefire

NO, it was a MAN MADE DISASTER.

....orchestrated by Canadian pilots who snuck in over the Saudi Arabian border.
/

134 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:28:49am

re: #122 medaura18586

Exactly. Why was this "photoshoot" needed? Couldn't they just Photoshop the Statue of Liberty or whatever monument they pleased, side by side the plane?

Or, just take the pics the next time AF1 has a reason to fly to NYC. What's the damn rush?

135 Mad Mullah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:28:55am

Where do they find these idiots? Flying a huge jumbo jet low over Manhattan? I realize that many liberal idiots pretend as if 9/11 never happened (and the rest blame the USA for it), but sometimes their stupidity is just astounding.

And since when do you need a jumbo jet escorted by fighter planes to take a few pictures of the NYC skyline? Buy a fucking postcard instead. This must be Obama's idea of being fiscally and environmentally responsible. What else is to be expected from the worst President in US history?

136 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:00am

re: #129 Guanxi88

For the record, much as I disapprove of Teh One and his doings and plannings, I want no American subject to the jurisdiction of the ICC. Ever.

I screwed up the strike. I also agree with your statement.

137 ROPMA  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:12am

1) At least this wasn't done on 9-11-09

2) Reminds me of Clinton's haircut at the airport

138 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:13am

Mission accomplished... or something.

Image: flbm9d.jpg

139 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:17am

re: #115 lawhawk

Specter has changed parties. He's blaming it on the GOP moving to the right, rather than his own political views moving steadily to the left since becoming Senator in January 1981. He's the fifth oldest Senator, has had health issues, and still thinks he should continue serving? I think he's better off serving the people of PA by retiring and letting fresh blood into the Senate.

* * * *
McCain flirted with the same switcheroo in 2001, John Kerry, Chris Dodd and S.D. Tom Daschle and NY Rep. Thomas Downey apparently tried wooing McCain while McCain was nursing his wounds from losing to GW Bush in 2000.

Seduction, Dems are good at adulterous situations.

140 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:21am

re: #115 lawhawk

Specter has changed parties. He's blaming it on the GOP moving to the right, rather than his own political views moving steadily to the left since becoming Senator in January 1981. He's the fifth oldest Senator, has had health issues, and still thinks he should continue serving? I think he's better off serving the people of PA by retiring and letting fresh blood into the Senate.

Specter's ego is his most important constituent. He will keep feeding it as long as physically possible.

141 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:38am

re: #109 Thom

83 Sharmuta

You sound like a BDSer whining about Florida.

Whatever - the dems will have a filibuster-free senate.

Except Bush won in the first count and the subsequent count. Franken didn't.

142 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:48am

Memo to Harry Reid and the Dems: You wanted him, you got him. Good luck. Oh, and don't your back on him.

143 redheadredstate  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:58am

Spector is a spineless worm. When the going got tough and he found himself along with the rest of the remaining Repubs having to earn his salary for a change he bailed.

144 KansasMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:29:58am

re: #17 alegrias

Can't the manufacturer provide pictures of this plane?

Why does Air Force One need "publicity" shots? For Hollywood or propaganda purposes?

To give away as signed gifts for people who ride aboard Air Force One with the President?

Hubris, & let them eat cake, Marie Antoinette mentality.

There's already a gazillion beautiful pics of VC-25 out there...the plane has been flying with its current livery for a while now. IMO, there was no need for a new photo shoot.

145 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:30:07am

re: #120 tfc3rid

52% of the people who voted did... Not 52% of americans...

If they couldn't be bothered to vote, they're irrelevant.

146 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:05am

re: #126 Salamantis

Nope; apparently, to give up Lieberman, they want Specter, Snowe, and Susan Collins, too.

It's a deal!

147 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:15am
But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

Thank you, Charles.

148 Sheepdogess  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:17am

Three.
Words.

149 SummerSong  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:19am

So, Obama has men with the mentality of 14 yr old boys in the white house?

Terrific....

150 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:20am


Time is running out..................LET'S ROLL

151 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:25am

re: #145 Dianna

If they couldn't be bothered to vote, they're irrelevant.

True... I was going to say it's semantics but still, if everyone voted, I think the results would have been different...

152 Lee Coller  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:33am

re: #145 Dianna

If they couldn't be bothered to vote, they're irrelevant.

I'll go even further than that, if they couldn't be bothered to vote for one of the two candidates who actually had a chance to win their irrelevant. Take that all you third party voters!

153 Gella  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:34am

huge msnbc headline
Veteran Pennsylvania Republican, seen here with Vice President Joe Biden, says that he'll become a Democrat. Move edges party closer to filibuster-proof majority

154 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:31:36am

re: #115 lawhawk

Specter has changed parties. He's blaming it on the GOP moving to the right, rather than his own political views moving steadily to the left since becoming Senator in January 1981. He's the fifth oldest Senator, has had health issues, and still thinks he should continue serving? I think he's better off serving the people of PA by retiring and letting fresh blood into the Senate.

I don't care what party he belongs to. These corrupt incumbents-for-life need to be purged from our government.
D or R - Specter must go.

155 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:32:16am

For Obama to say he didn't know about this stupid stun is a lie.
They would have told him he couldn't fly that day because his back up bird would be busy.

156 redheadredstate  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:32:17am

re: #154 FrogMarch

I don't care what party he belongs to. These corrupt incumbents-for-life need to be purged from our government.
D or R - Specter must go.

A gazillion updings my friend!

157 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:32:32am

re: #17 alegrias

Can't the manufacturer provide pictures of this plane?

Why does Air Force One need "publicity" shots? For Hollywood or propaganda purposes?

To give away as signed gifts for people who ride aboard Air Force One with the President?

Hubris, & let them eat cake, Marie Antoinette mentality.

Exactly. Or the Obama family could have posed on the steps while it sat on the tarmac at Andrews AFB. That actually would be a lovely pic to share. Sigh.

158 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:32:39am

re: #108 Occasional Reader

Good point. Although I think the jumbo jet would also have been recognized more quickly here, or just assumed to be AF1 (which we see from time to time).

And we do see CAPs sometimes... I saw a pair of F-16s fly over the city just a couple of weeks ago.

A coworker called me yesterday to ask whether the President was in town because a friend said he saw AF1. I checked and saw that Obama was in DC for the day, so we didn't know why his friend saw AF1 here.

Then again, when you look at the videos, you don't know it's AF1 until it's directly overhead. When it's coming in low and fast at a nearly head-on position, you can't tell that it's anything other than a Boeing 747 trailed by a fighter escort.

159 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:32:42am

I miss George Bush.

160 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:32:57am

141 Sharmuta

Yes, exactly like a BDSer.

161 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:32:57am

re: #153 Gella

MSNBC is as trustworthy as World Net Daily when it comes to reporting...

162 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:33:15am

re: #154 FrogMarch

I don't care what party he belongs to. These corrupt incumbents-for-life need to be purged from our government.
D or R - Specter must go.

AMEN! And a LOT more...

163 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:33:19am

re: #134 Occasional Reader

Or, just take the pics the next time AF1 has a reason to fly to NYC. What's the damn rush?

Just one of the listed action items for the first 100 days screwups.

164 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:33:28am
165 barry the baptist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:33:29am

The Chairman's fly over: what a dipshit.

Specter's changeover: what a dipshit.

166 KansasMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:33:31am

I realize that they don't announce this planes location....ever. However, since the prez wasn't on board AND they were going to fly low anyway. Why wouldn't they just make the announcement ahead of time. A lot of people would have really enjoyed it if they knew what it was. Instead they scared the poop out of them. Smart!

167 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:33:48am

re: #151 tfc3rid

True... I was going to say it's semantics but still, if everyone voted, I think the results would have been different...

I have no idea. You may be right, but we'll never know.

168 redstateredneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:34:25am

I'm sure President Obama will give a full report on this unfortunate incident at Wednesday's prime time press conference.

169 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:34:38am

re: #153 Gella

huge msnbc headline
Veteran Pennsylvania Republican, seen here with Vice President Joe Biden, says that he'll become a Democrat. Move edges party closer to filibuster-proof majority
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Factual headline in the MSM for once.

170 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:34:44am
171 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:35:02am

re: #154 FrogMarch

I don't care what party he belongs to. These corrupt incumbents-for-life need to be purged from our government.
D or R - Specter must go.

I'm with ya on that! I like my congressman, but I'm to the point where I'm willing to let him go, if only to make the point that Barney Frank voters will have no valid argument as far as I'm concerned if they refuse to do the same.

(Yeah, I know I'm a dreamer. Sigh.)

172 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:35:20am

re: #94 MrSilverDragon

Most of us here do on a daily basis, and the consistent reply is "He isn't."

Sorry, didn't realize anybody needed a sarc tag for that one.

173 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:35:27am
But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

Because for leftists "the rules are whatever the fuck they decide them to be. Whenever they decide them to be".
People who have no principles, other than winning and holding power, are scary because there's no predictability to what they might do.
It's rule by fiat.

174 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:35:33am
175 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:35:34am

re: #160 Thom

141 Sharmuta

Yes, exactly like a BDSer.

Maybe you'd like to call the Powerline guys that too then?

176 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:35:43am

Any Pennsylvanians here, please make sure you're registered to vote at the earliest race in your vicinity.

Chris Matthews whose legs tingle for Pres. Obama, actually wanted to run for your Senate seat.

177 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:06am

re: #172 Son of the Black Dog

Sorry, didn't realize anybody needed a sarc tag for that one.

Nah, just doing my best to state the obvious, as I'm often wont to do. :)

178 saylorfam  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:14am

Specter almost lost to a nobody named Lynn Yeakle a few years ago over the grilling he gave Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas confirmations.
I will never vote for him again. I went to school with his sons in Philadelphia. I wish he would have just ended his current term and faded into the sunset. It would have been the honorable thing to do.

179 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:21am

re: #168 redstateredneck

I'm sure President Obama will give a full report on this unfortunate incident at Wednesday's prime time press conference.

..yeah, er, ah, umm, wait a minute, I am waiting for the TelePrompTer to catch up

180 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:22am

re: #170 smokefire

That was very inappropriate.

181 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:24am

re: #174 KansasMom


LOL..........

182 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:28am

re: #167 Dianna

I have no idea. You may be right, but we'll never know.

No we won't... And sadly, we are stuck with this assclown for 4 more years... And to think, we are ONLY at 100 days... My God...

183 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:28am
184 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:29am
185 MJ  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:36am

Old Conspiracy theory:

The Mossad, CIA, Cubans, Mafia, Queen Elizabeth, LBJ, killed JFK.

New Conspiracy theory:

Obama ordered the hit. ( Hey, he was 2 at the time so it's possible).

Proof:

Arlen Spector was on the Warren Commission cover-up Report.

/

186 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:36:56am

re: #111 MJ

Here's a link to an insightful article about Specter:
[Link: www.republican-leadership.com...]

I posted the link on the last thread too. So he's posing with Biden, huh? LOL

Specter has "the rarest of all combinations," Joe Biden said in a recent speech in Pennsylvania. "It's the profound intellect to comprehend what is most important for the country, and the willingness … to risk your career for it."
Republicans can't quite muster Bidenesque levels of obsequiousness when it comes to Specter, but they try. "I'm very happy to have Arlen Specter as a colleague," says GOP leader Mitch McConnell. "He is almost always there when I need him." Others are less diplomatic. "I certainly don't have any comment about him," John McCain said with a huff when a NEWSWEEK reporter asked for his thoughts on Specter last week.

187 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:37:04am

Didn't Spector vote with the Dems about 85% of the time anyway?
Some loss...

188 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:37:07am

What's good for GM is good for America!

US taxpayers would take a majority shareholding in General Motors under a sweeping debt-for-equity restructuring proposal that the carmaker revealed on Monday in a bid to avoid bankruptcy.

Under the plan, GM said it would shut 13 of 47 plants by the end of next year, resulting in an additional 7,000 job losses. The latest job cuts would reduce GM’s US workforce from 61,000 last year to about 40,000 by the end of 2010.

189 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:37:08am

Palestinian gets death sentence for selling land to Israel

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Sure and they share our values?

190 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:37:27am

re: #166 KansasMom

I realize that they don't announce this planes location....ever. However, since the prez wasn't on board AND they were going to fly low anyway. Why wouldn't they just make the announcement ahead of time. A lot of people would have really enjoyed it if they knew what it was. Instead they scared the poop out of them. Smart!

FAA in NYC HAD to know... There are a number of flfight plans into LGA that come over Manhattan or Brooklyn and that airspace MUST have been cleared...

191 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:37:27am

re: #174 KansasMom

Dude, its not the plane's fault. Why are you picking on it?

............because we paid for it. Remember Taxes?
wasteful spending............Oh wait, it was for the One

192 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:37:49am

re: #156 redheadredstate

re: #162 tfc3rid

thank ya kindly.

Spector isn't the only one. I'd say 90-99% of our entire united States congress should be purged. Including folks like John Conyers, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Jack Murtha, and many many more...
we need term limits and a return to representative government. I want some fresh faces in there. how about a handful of competent fresh faces-- folks who aren't on the take?

193 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:37:54am

175 Sharmuta

If they are whining about Franken, but had no problem with Florida, then absolutely I would.

194 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:38:31am

re: #170 smokefire

That's absolutely not OK. If you ever post a comment like that again at my website, your account will be history.

195 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:38:53am

re: #170 smokefire

It's "Canada Geese", and we should be eradicating them from around airports.

196 smokefire  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:06am

OK, Re: the Geese,
I'M SORRY. A LITTLE OVER THE TOP.
Mea Culpa.

197 KansasMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:15am

I will reply and not quote inappropriate posts....I will reply and not quote inappropriate posts...I will reply and not quote inappropriate posts....

Oops.

198 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:24am

Obama dim bulb

199 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:40am
200 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:41am

re: #188 Rednek

What's good for GM is good for America!

It's precisely this sort of nonsense, this fast out of the gate, that makes me realize that maybe the folks I thought were a bit whacky for suggestion Teh One would usher in socialism were perhaps on to something.

We won't let you refuse or payback loans we made to you, but we'd be pleased to have you change executives, cap their compensation, and take majority equity in the firm.

Tell me that ain't socialism and/or Vinnie the Loan Shark's friendly finance at work.

201 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:50am

re: #192 FrogMarch

re: #162 tfc3rid

thank ya kindly.

Spector isn't the only one. I'd say 90-99% of our entire united States congress should be purged. Including folks like John Conyers, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Jack Murtha, and many many more...
we need term limits and a return to representative government. I want some fresh faces in there. how about a handful of competent fresh faces-- folks who aren't on the take?

Spot on.

202 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:51am
But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

For exactly the same reason that, during the energy crisis brought on by the Arab Oil Embargo in the 1970s, Jimmy Carter told everyone to turn their thermostats down to 68 degrees, and mandated the same for all Federal government buildings. Yet tour groups to the White House noted that it's thermostats were set to a balmy 75 degrees.

In other words, the answer is: because we're going to tell you what to do, and do whatever it is that we want to do.

203 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:52am

Specter challenger Pat Toomey is a fiscal conservative.

Specter was on Senate appropriations committee, second most senior on the GOP side when it came to doling out pork.

204 Truck Monkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:39:54am

I am going to give the President the benefit of the doubt on this one. How is he supposed to know when the Air Force is going to play with the plane. There are two designated AF1's. Tail 27000 and 28000. If Barry wanted to travel yesterday he would have had a plane.

205 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:40:11am

Anybody see the movie Independence Day? They had really great pics of Air Force 1 against a backdrop of Washington DC being vaporized. And IIRC, Washington DC wasn't actually vaporized.
They did it with some pretty good CGI.
If the Administration really needed new publicity pics of AF1 couldn't they just have gone that route?
Just saying.

206 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:40:14am

re: #164 Sheepdogess

WTH?

207 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:40:29am

re: #67 Russkilitlover

What's this about boobs?

208 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:40:38am

re: #197 KansasMom

I will reply and not quote inappropriate posts....I will reply and not quote inappropriate posts...I will reply and not quote inappropriate posts....

Oops.

It happens to us all from time to time. We're not happy with the comment, and nor should we be happy with the comment. Don't understand my deletion though. I hit reply, not quote. Oh, well.

209 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:40:55am

re: #192 FrogMarch

Check out the Modern Whig Party

Modern Whig Party

210 dhg4  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:40:58am

Your text to link...re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

Look on the bright side; that's at least one batch of cash that didn't go to ACORN.

Or the UAW.

211 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:41:13am

re: #188 Rednek

What's good for GM is good for America!

Thanks for the link. Here's one on the same topic:

UAW leaders recommend members OK Chrysler deal

From the article:

The United Auto Workers union will own 55 percent of a restructured Chrysler LLC and its retiree health care trust will get a seat on the board of directors if union members vote to approve contract concessions later this week.

So, let's recap. The Federal Government takes over GM, and the UAW takes over Chrysler. This is starting to look like a race to see which incompetent organization can drive their company into the ground first.

Think I'll buy a Ford.

212 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:41:22am

re: #205 LGoPs

Anybody see the movie Independence Day? They had really great pics of Air Force 1 against a backdrop of Washington DC being vaporized. And IIRC, Washington DC wasn't actually vaporized.
They did it with some pretty good CGI.
If the Administration really needed new publicity pics of AF1 couldn't they just have gone that route?
Just saying.

And Randy Quaid saves the day. Man what a horrible movie. I loved it.

213 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:41:27am

re: #204 Truck Monkey


Yet he would have know he couldn't fly that day because the bird would be busy. Sorry Obama get's no pass from me.

214 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:41:30am

IIRC there are at least two and maybe three planes which are all identical, any of which can be designated AF1 if needed. On high security missions, they all go, to provide decoys.

215 redheadredstate  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:41:35am

I would not give two hoots about Specter if I felt that the census and 2010 weren't in play. In the natural course of things without government interference then I think the Repubs would pick up several seats in 2010 simply because Obama and the Dems have had to show their hand. With the census and redistricting on the table for the mid-terms who knows what kind of shenanigans the Dems can get up to. Specter has always been a RINO but we needed everyone with an R after their name that we could get. I never thought in my wildest nightmares that I'd live to see such times as I'm living through and the zero's approval numbers are in the 60's. What is wrong with America?

216 brent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:42:14am

I'm sorry, but what exactly would Zero apologize for? I hear an apology from a WH staffer, but if he were any kind of leader at all, that apology would have come from him first. What kind of leader is he, exactly?

No kind of leader at all.

217 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:42:24am

Just heard a sound byte from Specter... People applauding him loudly for his change...

218 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:05am

bbl

219 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:11am

Lebanese told no kissing to keep swine flu away

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

But can people still do the dirty deed?

220 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:18am

re: #187 rawmuse

Didn't Spector vote with the Dems about 85% of the time anyway?
Some loss...

Pretty much. He crossed the line most recently over the budget, one of only three Republicans to do so.

At least he's being honest about it now. Although I don't care for this sort of thing by either party once they've taken office. If you want to switch parties, man up and run in your choice of parties during the next election.

221 rockmanvermont  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:22am

I have NO problem with Air Force One and F-15 escort going over the New York skyline in an iconic image of how truly awesome this country is.I'll bet they got a lot of nice photos on the several takes.However,I have a BIG problem with taking a 747 purposefully close to a city that had absolutely no idea they were coming. Not even bothering to inform the mayor of new york. And the unneeded secrecy of it taking place.The plane was not Air Force One because Obama was not in it,so I personally am simply amazed that they believed this would be fine with an uninformed public.For Pete's sake,all they had to do on the news the night before was say "and if you have a camera and a quick eye,come see Air Force One with a low altitude fly bye.best pictures will win free tickets to (insert-name) concert".WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION?

222 zipity  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:31am

Quoting Obamessiah "Golly, not only does the buck not stop here, it barely slows down....." Is anything ever this guys fault? He's going to have to jack up the suspension, and add monster truck tires to his bus, he's thrown so many folks under it in his climb to the top.

223 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:32am

re: #207 Mad Al-Jaffee

What's this about boobs?

The Biden Specter photo shoot?

224 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:34am

re: #214 rawmuse

Just two 747.

225 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:48am

re: #102 avanti

From what I read, it was claimed as a cost cutting move, by combining the photo shoot with a needed training exercise. I can't comment on if the new AF1 pilots need training flights, but that was the story.

Don't you even try to excuse this inexcusable, insensitive, despicable decision. The White House knew all about this and no one had a modicum of common sense to say, "Wait a minute, let's think this through."

Clueless, classless, condescending, arrogant, ingenue Administration through and through!

226 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:54am

re: #192 FrogMarch

Vote against incumbents. Get your friends and neighbors to do the same.

The problem is always someone else's congresscritter, somehow.

227 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:44:12am

204 Truck Monkey

Yes, as much as I loathe him, it's not like the plane is his car parked in the driveway. It has its own Air Force command, the flight was cleared by the FAA and DOD, but no one thought to let New York know about it (which deserves a huge DUH!). I don't find it at all surprising that the President doesn't know what the two planes are doing when he's not on one.

228 KansasMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:44:17am

re: #190 tfc3rid

FAA in NYC HAD to know... There are a number of flfight plans into LGA that come over Manhattan or Brooklyn and that airspace MUST have been cleared...

That's not the same as announcing it -- the location of VC-25 and AF1 is always kept on the down-low. The don't even let it sit on the tarmac long unless its a well-publicized presidential trip. They don't want the satellites to see it.

229 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:44:37am

re: #217 tfc3rid

Just heard a sound byte from Specter... People applauding him loudly for his change...

He's holding a presser with his people, so of course they're going to cheer. It's not like he's going to go into a room where people don't want him.

230 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:44:59am

re: #215 redheadredstate

The kids are being educated by the hippie generation... Ayers contemporaries...

231 Gella  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:16am

my shtick is, if they were shooting that flight for movie, can they just CGI it?

232 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:18am

I don't buy a single word of this Air Force One apology. This was an arrogant, direct threat and demonstration of power to the American people.

Be afraid...be VERY afraid.

233 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:24am

re: #230 tfc3rid

The kids are being educated by the hippie generation... Ayers contemporaries...

No offense of course to conservative-type hippies... LOL...

234 MJ  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:31am

Actually, there is a positive side to Spector switching parties though it doesn't outweigh the veto proof margin he gives the Democrats. That will make one more hawk in the Democratic Party which certainly could use a few more. Joe Leiberman won't be entirely alone in advocating for a stronger National Defense.

235 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:32am

re: #222 zipity

Quoting Obamessiah "Golly, not only does the buck not stop here, it barely slows down....." Is anything ever this guys fault? He's going to have to jack up the suspension, and add monster truck tires to his bus, he's thrown so many folks under it in his climb to the top.

No, this is not his fault. It is the fault of some very dim administration officials.

236 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:41am

re: #229 lawhawk

He's holding a presser with his people, so of course they're going to cheer. It's not like he's going to go into a room where people don't want him.

But he goes into the Senate all the time...

237 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:50am
238 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:54am

Some of these geezer politicians will do anything for another opportunity to make news.

Specter goes from being in the down on their luck minority, to being slobbered over by Democrats and taken for plane rides on Air Force One.

Expect Pennsylvania to get extra bailout dollars from Pres. Obama, as a thankyou to Sen. Specter for switching, out of YOUR pocket.

To the victor go the spoils.

239 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:45:55am

re: #233 tfc3rid

No offense of course to conservative-type hippies... LOL...

None taken. ;)

240 astronmr20  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:03am

What the hell is wrong with Arlen Spector? First he votes for the bailout, now he switches parties?

I'm telling you the old bastard is senile.

241 Irenike  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:05am

The fact that President Teleprompter is spending money like a drunken sailor during times of financial crisis is not surprising.

Al Gore flies his private jet around, burning thousands of gallons of fuel. He uses 20 times more electricity to power his big old mansion. He can do it because he is the Green Messiah. He is on a mission to tell the masses not to drive SUVs. See, when you're the Messiah, you can do stuff like that. The rules of ordinary folks don't apply to you.

242 MacDuff  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:09am

re: #63 tfc3rid

The White House though the folks here in NYC were over it... Jeez, America, get OVER 9/11... It's ancient history...

/

Yes, I saw the tag so this isn't ducted at you, but I'm not over it and God willing, I'LL NEVER BE OVER IT! I'm still PISSED and I will always be.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Ahmadinejad, al Qaeda, the Taliban, the PA, Neonazis, CAIR, et al, are all part of the Hydra and until the Hydra is slain and swept, unceremoniously, into the dustbin of history, I WILL NEVER BE OVER IT!

Thanks, I feel better now.....

243 mattm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:19am

Ignoring the waste of money Issue, I want to know what idiot thought it would be a good idea to buzz lower Manhattan in a large passenger aircraft with a fighter jet escorting it.

That won't bring back any memories of 9/11.
/sarc

244 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:24am

re: #188 Rednek

What's good for GM is good for America!

Rednek -

The Idea of Debt for Equity swap equating to partial Union and Government ownership does not bother me in theory. VW was run that way for years. What DOES bother me are the PERCENTAGES - they bear No Relationship to the actual claims were they to be presented to a Bankruptcy Court. That is troubling to say the least.

-S-

245 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:25am

re: #222 zipity

Quoting Obamessiah "Golly, not only does the buck not stop here, it barely slows down....." Is anything ever this guys fault? He's going to have to jack up the suspension, and add monster truck tires to his bus, he's thrown so many folks under it in his climb to the top.

That makes me think of President Commancho from Idiocracy. And that movie looks more and more like a documentary every day.

246 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:31am

re: #217 tfc3rid

Just heard a sound byte from Specter... People applauding him loudly for his change...

* * * *
Specter's a rock star right now.

247 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:33am

re: #231 Gella

True.. were we not told that the Obama people were so computer smart?

248 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:42am
249 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:54am

re: #215 redheadredstate

I would not give two hoots about Specter if I felt that the census and 2010 weren't in play. In the natural course of things without government interference then I think the Repubs would pick up several seats in 2010 simply because Obama and the Dems have had to show their hand. With the census and redistricting on the table for the mid-terms who knows what kind of shenanigans the Dems can get up to. Specter has always been a RINO but we needed everyone with an R after their name that we could get. I never thought in my wildest nightmares that I'd live to see such times as I'm living through and the zero's approval numbers are in the 60's. What is wrong with America?

Much of what is wrong with America is the MFM. I distrust the approval numbers. I distrust them because it is a given that the MFM was and is fully in the tank for Obama. If they were willing to manipulate the news to support him then it also follows they would be willing to manipulate polls to show positive results.
The MFM is the enemy of freedom. They are Pravda.

250 redheadredstate  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:46:58am

re: #230 tfc3rid

The kids are being educated by the hippie generation... Ayers contemporaries...

I know what you're saying but as my kid's parent I de-program them every day after they come home from school. My college age son is a full 24 hour a day job by himself. These colleges are just breeding grounds for the left. With my high school age daughter it's a bit easier but still I have to set her straight on a daily basis.

251 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:47:19am

re: #217 tfc3rid

Just heard a sound byte from Specter... People applauding him loudly for his change...


He will probably get a very nice slice of power from the Democrats for his perfidity.

252 Gella  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:47:20am

re: #247 Dustoff-507

LOL, what he can't use his crackberry for that?
////

253 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:47:36am

It appears that the Mayor's office and NYPD had indeed been informed, but told they couldn't publicize it:

AIR HEADS IN DC TERRORIZE CITY

Federal aviation officials had notified Mayor Bloomberg's office -- but not the mayor himself -- and the NYPD last week. But officials were given clear instructions not to share the classified mission with the public, sources said.

254 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:47:41am

re: #237 Sharmuta

Whoa! Ellison was arrested this morning?!

Aw phooey. I was hoping for something over-the-top and crazy, and he was just arrested for demonstrations.

255 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:47:46am

I need to unplug from the news cycle for a while.
It's much less depressing playing golf, and with my handicap, that's saying something...
I have my family, my health, my home, and my job. I am grateful for these things. 'bama wants me to settle for less. I will not do it. But I'm out for a couple of weeks. Need a breather.

256 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:47:47am
257 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:47:56am

re: #232 Spartacus50

I don't buy a single word of this Air Force One apology. This was an arrogant, direct threat and demonstration of power to the American people.

Be afraid...be VERY afraid.

That's bullshit. In that case, you are saying the Air Force is was part and parcel to this "demonstration of power to the American people?"

Go back to Alex Jones with this tripe.

258 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:48:14am

re: #226 Dianna

Vote against incumbents. Get your friends and neighbors to do the same.

The problem is always someone else's congresscritter, somehow.

* * * *
That's mindless. One can judge incumbents by their actions.

259 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:48:29am

re: #237 Sharmuta

Whoa! Ellison was arrested this morning?!

That was yesterday. The stunt at the Sudanese consulate.

260 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:48:34am

re: #243 mattm

The supply of idiots is too large to narrow down, unfortunately.

261 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:48:54am

1. Who was taking pictures for this "official photo-op"?
2. Who was on the flight manifest?

Will we ever see the answers to these questions? They are a matter of public record

262 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:15am

re: #237 Sharmuta

Whoa! Ellison was arrested this morning?!

For Darfur I would be willing to get arrested. The fact that the west is standing by during ANOTHER genocide is horrible.

263 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:21am

re: #190 tfc3rid

TRACAN, LGA, EWR, and JFK all had to know because the plane had to be routed through the most traveled airspace in the country. The FAA had to know - and indeed did know. It was deemed that AF1 was in NY airspace on a need to know. The public apparently didn't need to know.

I'm not sure why the WH /US AF felt it necessary to update the file photos in any event since there wasn't anything that had changed. Did they want higher resolution photos? If that was the case, why not wait until AF1 was in NY on official business, or if they were going to do what they did yesterday - at least announce it. People always get a kick out of AF1 when they see it (and know that it's coming).

264 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:22am

re: #232 Spartacus50

I don't buy a single word of this Air Force One apology. This was an arrogant, direct threat and demonstration of power to the American people.

Be afraid...be VERY afraid.

* * * *
Being afraid is not helpful.

265 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:25am

re: #244 Dr. Shalit

So does that mean the union can't strike, because they now own part of GM?

266 KansasMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:30am

re: #224 Dustoff-507

Just two 747.

Just two VC-25s. There are also 4 E-4Bs. Any plane the prez is on is considered Air Force One.

267 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:31am

re: #258 alegrias

* * * *
That's mindless. One can judge incumbents by their actions.

I don't disagree. I'm just astonished that people keep saying "throw the bums out!", but never toss their own incumbent.

I will vote against Zoe Lofgren, but it won't do any good.

268 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:37am

If any one has to puke and purge, Lani Davis on FOX

269 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:37am

Just a question.
What if this administration believed that notifying the public prior may have created a security threat for the aircraft, and NYC 1000 feet beneath?

270 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:39am

re: #242 MacDuff

Yes, I saw the tag so this isn't ducted at you, but I'm not over it and God willing, I'LL NEVER BE OVER IT! I'm still PISSED and I will always be.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Ahmadinejad, al Qaeda, the Taliban, the PA, Neonazis, CAIR, et al, are all part of the Hydra and until the Hydra is slain and swept, unceremoniously, into the dustbin of history, I WILL NEVER BE OVER IT!

Thanks, I feel better now.....

Same here... I will never be over it either... Seeing it with my own eyes did not help... It made me angry, real angry, at those who did it and those who failed to protect us here...

271 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:44am

Please, tell me someone is keeping a running list of BHO's "tin ear" moments and other gaffes. I want to measure it against GWB's track record one day.

272 MJ  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:54am

re: #256 Sharmuta

Yes! Here's a picture of it.

Maybe he should go over to the Saudi Embassy and protest there since they've been bankrolling this genocide.
Oh wait, he's a Saudi stooge.
Never mind.

273 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:49:55am

re: #226 Dianna

Vote against incumbents. Get your friends and neighbors to do the same.

The problem is always someone else's congresscritter, somehow.

The problem is often getting someone to run.
And too many people don't inform themselves, and vote for the familiar name.
I think if you held an election now, in Boston, Philip Markoff (the Craigslist killer) would get a significant number of votes.

274 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:50:07am

re: #261 Spartacus50

1. Who was taking pictures for this "official photo-op"?
2. Who was on the flight manifest?

Will we ever see the answers to these questions? They are a matter of public record

Stop with the fucking bullshit.

If you are meaning this to be sarcastic, then please use a sarcasm tag like the rest of us do.

275 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:50:24am

Taxpayer funded stunt fliers showing the taxpayers who's boss.

276 zipity  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:50:35am
#235 - No, this is not his fault. It is the fault of some very dim administration officials.

Really? And who's administration is this? Bush's? Clinton's? The Left held Bush responsible for anything and everything during his Administration, but I guess it's different when the Messiah is in office, eh? Excuse me while I go wretch.......

277 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:50:46am

re: #232 Spartacus50

I don't buy a single word of this Air Force One apology. This was an arrogant, direct threat and demonstration of power to the American people.

Be afraid...be VERY afraid.

You are insane. Perhaps this is the plane all those chemtrails come from?

278 Land Shark  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:50:50am

Specter leaving the GOP is bad in the short run, the Schemorats now have 60 votes in the Senate, but I believe it's good in the long run. Tommey will have an easier time winning the Republican primary in 2010, and there's no guarantee Specter will get the Democrat nomination, and if he does, I bet Specter loses the General election. Plus the GOP gets rid of a RINO who won't support Conservative principles anyway and who's more interested in his own career. The MSM will trumpet it as the GOP losing appeal among moderates and independents, but I believe this will help focus the GOP more on Conservative principles. Maybe we can finally get the Republicans to stop trying to be Democrat Lite.

279 redstateredneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:50:58am

re: #267 Dianna

I don't disagree. I'm just astonished that people keep saying "throw the bums out!", but never toss their own incumbent.

I will vote against Zoe Lofgren, but it won't do any good.

It's the same thing as people who say that public schools are terrible, but their own school district is the exception.

280 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:11am

re: #262 Buck

For Darfur I would be willing to get arrested. The fact that the west is standing by during ANOTHER genocide is horrible.

He's not exactly powerless- he's a member of Congress. It was meaningless.

281 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:16am

Spector's been a RINO for ages, good riddance.

He's protect his political arse.

He won't survive a (R) party primary next go round, he'd rather have the power of his Senate seat than stand by any values he doesn't have.

Good riddance to him and horse he rode in on.

282 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:19am

re: #252 Gella


Yeah that SUPER secret one. (-:

283 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:29am

re: #235 Walter L. Newton

No, this is not his fault. It is the fault of some very dim administration officials.

Can only agree. Another non-issue that's distracting from more important ones. I doubt that Obama knew anything about this prior to the bitching.

The upcoming attempt to railroad a national health care bill under Senate Reconciliation Rules is far more important. And disturbing. It requires only a simple majority, and limits debate sharply. The only thing missing right now is holding the vote at midnight on Friday - but I'm sure someone will arrange for that as well.

284 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:43am

Fran Townsend, who advised President George W. Bush for more than three years, called the move "crass insensitivity" in the wake of 9/11.

"I'd call this felony stupidity. This is probably not the right job for Mr. Caldera to be in if he didn't understand the likely reaction of New Yorkers, of the mayor," Townsend said Tuesday on CNN's "American Morning."

felony stupidity.... I like that expression.

285 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:51am

re: #277 haakondahl

You are insane. Perhaps this is the plane all those chemtrails come from?

Were any rainbows detected in the vicinity?

286 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:52am

re: #256 Sharmuta

Yes! Here's a picture of it.

I had hoped the arrest photo showed him in drag. Big let down.

287 JustMyView  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:51:54am

re: #213 Dustoff-507

Yet he would have know he couldn't fly that day because the bird would be busy. Sorry Obama get's no pass from me.

I don't think the President makes up his mind in the AM whether he'd like to go for an airborne cruise based on whether there's a plane available. Rather, he decides well in advance when he'll be flying and other plans are made around his schedule.

288 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:52:23am

re: #226 Dianna

Vote against incumbents. Get your friends and neighbors to do the same.

The problem is always someone else's congresscritter, somehow.

oh I agree, Dianna. So much money is poured into the campaigns of incumbents. The masses see a name they recognize along with a typical deceptive slogan "it's for the children, education police, firefighters...".. blah blah blah..) and the incumbent wins every time. I doesn't help that the newbies in the GOP never get the support they need. It also doesn't help that the GOP doesn't seem to have a clue how recruit fresh faces.

this is what we get from the GOP - time after time.

289 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:52:39am
290 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:52:47am

re: #262 Buck

For Darfur I would be willing to get arrested. The fact that the west is standing by during ANOTHER genocide is horrible.

Where have you been for over 20 years, now?

Sudan is one on-going horror show.

291 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:53:06am

re: #253 subsailor68

It appears that the Mayor's office and NYPD had indeed been informed, but told they couldn't publicize it:

AIR HEADS IN DC TERRORIZE CITY

Federal aviation officials had notified Mayor Bloomberg's office -- but not the mayor himself -- and the NYPD last week. But officials were given clear instructions not to share the classified mission with the public, sources said.

Of course! Had the public known, they would all have gone up to the top of buildings and waved, thus ruining the photo shoot

292 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:53:21am

re: #276 zipity

Really? And who's administration is this? Bush's? Clinton's? The Left held Bush responsible for anything and everything during his Administration, but I guess it's different when the Messiah is in office, eh? Excuse me while I go wretch.......

So, does that mean you have to be as reactionary as the idiots who blamed everything on Bush, just because they did, or do you think you can use some critical think here and raise yourself above that level?

Yes, it is different. We don't have to act like screaming lunatics like the moonbats.

293 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:53:27am

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

That's bullshit. In that case, you are saying the Air Force is was part and parcel to this "demonstration of power to the American people?"

Go back to Alex Jones with this tripe.

I am most definitely NOT a conspiracist. However, I am still absolutely livid over what I witnessed yesterday from our OWN FUCKING PRESIDENT! How else do you explain it? Nobody had a straight story after the incident and at one point, even Robert Gibbs suggested the press needs to "ask the White House".

294 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:53:29am

re: #267 Dianna

I don't disagree. I'm just astonished that people keep saying "throw the bums out!", but never toss their own incumbent.

I will vote against Zoe Lofgren, but it won't do any good.

* * **
Incumbents need not be bums.
Naive newbies might make great legislators.
Politicians should be judged on their merits.

295 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:54:10am

re: #265 Dustoff-507

So does that mean the union can't strike, because they now own part of GM?

Dustoff-507 -

Must BE - 'cause Must 'AIN'T just don't Sound Right.

-S-

296 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:54:22am

re: #269 unrealizedviewpoint

Just a question.
What if this administration believed that notifying the public prior may have created a security threat for the aircraft, and NYC 1000 feet beneath?

Then they should have not scheduled it, period.

It requires something close to being brain dead to think this was a good idea.

297 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:54:29am

re: #237 Sharmuta

Whoa! Ellison was arrested this morning?!

No worries... He'll be back on the streets by noon.

298 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:54:46am

OT
I heard on the radio this morning that a Democrat in the House submitted a bill back in January to do away with the 2 term limit on the Presidency.
Of course it will take approval by 3/4 of the states but is revealing on the mindset of the democrats. The report said the process would take 7 years........just in time of course for the end of Obama's 2nd term.
It is messy and annoying trying to actually win elections. And even with all the media manipulation there's still an element of doubt. So why not just do away with the need for elections. Between that and the census manipulation being comtemplated, the Democrats are working hard on putting in the fix.
This makes me truly angry.

299 stuiec  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:54:54am

I was in New York on a business trip on 9/11/2001. I was on a shuttle to LaGuardia that went into the Midtown tunnel at 8:45 AM - when we came out, the bus driver told us to look at the WTC because the radio news said a plane hit it. We saw the tower burning. A few minutes later, we reached a point on the expressway where we could see the WTC again -- and both towers were burning. Couldn't figure that one out -- until later, at the airport, when we heard about the second plane, and saw the towers collapse on CNN.

My trip took me back INTO Manhattan the next afternoon. The streets were deserted, except for some taxis and emergency vehicles, and ash particles wafted through the air, even up at 57th St. Everyone at dinner and at the hotel was on the edge of panic - rumors of more bombs at the Empire State Building, worries about friends and colleagues and loved ones...

And for months after, on return trips to Manhattan, I'd be walking through the city and enjoying the fine weather -- and then come across the "Have You Seen This Person" flyers on a bus shelter, or the children's drawings sent from Iowa to a NYFD fire station.

My colleague who worked across the street from the WTC arrived at the Canal St. subway station at 8:45 AM and saw everything. He still can't talk about just what he witnessed.

I am deeply grateful to the men and women of the Bush Administration who ensured that my home state of California didn't suffer a similar attack, and that my family and friends and neighbors were spared the horror and grief that the people of New York experienced -- and still feel to this day. What this latest fiasco tells us in the starkest and most definitive terms is that President Obama has a total "9/10" mindset, and no personal understanding of the magnitude and significance of the 9/11 attacks and what they meant to the people who were directly affected.

300 JustMyView  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:54:57am

re: #289 buzzsawmonkey


The fly in the ointment, as you correctly note, is the jiggering of the census figures, and how that will affect the midterms.

The census is conducted in 2010. Any data that might affect redistricting won't be available until after the midterms.

301 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:55:04am

Republican National Chairman Michael Steele has issued a "stern" statement about Arlen Specter's cheesy switcheroo.

302 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:55:04am

re: #274 Walter L. Newton

Stop with the fucking bullshit.

If you are meaning this to be sarcastic, then please use a sarcasm tag like the rest of us do.

What is bullshit about it? I, as a tax-paying American citizen, DEMAND to know why my fellow citizens fled for their lives yesterday. If the Press had any balls they would do the same.

303 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:55:20am

re: #259 Dianna

That was yesterday. The stunt at the Sudanese consulate.

Well- he does have a record. Look at that- tax problems. It's a wonder ellison wasn't nominated for a cabinet position.

304 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:55:29am

re: #287 JustMyView


It doesn't matter... He would still know. Just like his sudden flight for Earthday.

305 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:55:48am

re: #267 Dianna

I don't disagree. I'm just astonished that people keep saying "throw the bums out!", but never toss their own incumbent.

I will vote against Zoe Lofgren, but it won't do any good.

I volunteer to toss water balloons at her.

306 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:55:55am

re: #284 Buck

Fran Townsend, who advised President George W. Bush for more than three years, called the move "crass insensitivity" in the wake of 9/11.

"I'd call this felony stupidity. This is probably not the right job for Mr. Caldera to be in if he didn't understand the likely reaction of New Yorkers, of the mayor," Townsend said Tuesday on CNN's "American Morning."

felony stupidity.... I like that expression.

Put the fucker in the Witless Protection Program.......

307 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:55:57am

re: #263 lawhawk

TRACAN, LGA, EWR, and JFK all had to know because the plane had to be routed through the most traveled airspace in the country. The FAA had to know - and indeed did know. It was deemed that AF1 was in NY airspace on a need to know. The public apparently didn't need to know.

I'm not sure why the WH /US AF felt it necessary to update the file photos in any event since there wasn't anything that had changed. Did they want higher resolution photos? If that was the case, why not wait until AF1 was in NY on official business, or if they were going to do what they did yesterday - at least announce it. People always get a kick out of AF1 when they see it (and know that it's coming).

The plane is different now, The One has ridden on it! It's been anointed and now has an aura, they need photos that capture that aura.

It look so dingy when GWB flew on it, it had that dirty CheneyRoveHalliburton aura.

/////

308 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:56:09am

re: #287 JustMyView

I don't think the President makes up his mind in the AM whether he'd like to go for an airborne cruise based on whether there's a plane available. Rather, he decides well in advance when he'll be flying and other plans are made around his schedule.

Yes, the plans for AF1 flights involve a lot of planning. He doesn't just say "let's go to Disneyland" and they go. The planning includes making sure the people and equipment needed at the destination will be there; spare parts; etc.

309 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:56:09am

But...but.....but....it's NOT Air Force One unless the President is on board!

310 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:56:18am

All the Democrats are "thrilled" by Arlen Specter's switcheroo to their majority.

Pres. Obama called within 7 minutes of the news Specter went from GOP to Dem, and also said he was "thrilled".

311 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:56:35am

re: #269 unrealizedviewpoint

Just a question.
What if this administration believed that notifying the public prior may have created a security threat for the aircraft, and NYC 1000 feet beneath?

Any more than a panic that could lead to a stampede that killed or injured people? We already know that there was a panic and people did run to escape what they perceived to be an imminent threat? If they thought that there was a threat to the aircraft, that would be a bigger story, don't you think. After all, what could possibly take down the plane? Someone with a SAM? That would mean all aircraft in the NYC metro area were at risk, not just AF1.

The WH has can canceled a similar photo op in DC that was scheduled.

312 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:56:58am

re: #302 Spartacus50

What is bullshit about it? I, as a tax-paying American citizen, DEMAND to know why my fellow citizens fled for their lives yesterday. If the Press had any balls they would do the same.

* * * *
Call your democrat representatives if you haven't already.

313 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:57:02am

re: #269 unrealizedviewpoint

Just a question.
What if this administration believed that notifying the public prior may have created a security threat for the aircraft, and NYC 1000 feet beneath?

Then don't fly the mission. Photoshop it. You know how much money would have been saved by just compositing a picture anyway? Spartacus is off his chum, but this was still a stupid idea.

And I'd lay odds that the President didn't even know about it beforehand. Why on Earth would he? If the folks who organized this fiasco were so ignorant that they thought it was a good idea to do it but not inform the public before hand, would they have had the sense to get buy in from 1600? I don't know, but I'll bet you this beer %P%_%P% that they didn't.

314 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:57:02am

re: #310 alegrias

All the Democrats are "thrilled" by Arlen Specter's switcheroo to their majority.

Pres. Obama called within 7 minutes of the news Specter went from GOP to Dem, and also said he was "thrilled".

Praise Teh One! Another conversion experience, another miracle.

315 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:57:04am

re: #274 Walter L. Newton

Thank you.

316 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:57:29am

re: #295 Dr. Shalit

I know that happened in San Diego when they took over a ship building company.. Then went of strike when they didn't make the money they thought they would. The strike was stopped.

317 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:57:33am

re: #299 stuiec

I was in New York on a business trip on 9/11/2001. I was on a shuttle to LaGuardia that went into the Midtown tunnel at 8:45 AM - when we came out, the bus driver told us to look at the WTC because the radio news said a plane hit it. We saw the tower burning. A few minutes later, we reached a point on the expressway where we could see the WTC again -- and both towers were burning. Couldn't figure that one out -- until later, at the airport, when we heard about the second plane, and saw the towers collapse on CNN.

My trip took me back INTO Manhattan the next afternoon. The streets were deserted, except for some taxis and emergency vehicles, and ash particles wafted through the air, even up at 57th St. Everyone at dinner and at the hotel was on the edge of panic - rumors of more bombs at the Empire State Building, worries about friends and colleagues and loved ones...

And for months after, on return trips to Manhattan, I'd be walking through the city and enjoying the fine weather -- and then come across the "Have You Seen This Person" flyers on a bus shelter, or the children's drawings sent from Iowa to a NYFD fire station.

My colleague who worked across the street from the WTC arrived at the Canal St. subway station at 8:45 AM and saw everything. He still can't talk about just what he witnessed.

I am deeply grateful to the men and women of the Bush Administration who ensured that my home state of California didn't suffer a similar attack, and that my family and friends and neighbors were spared the horror and grief that the people of New York experienced -- and still feel to this day. What this latest fiasco tells us in the starkest and most definitive terms is that President Obama has a total "9/10" mindset, and no personal understanding of the magnitude and significance of the 9/11 attacks and what they meant to the people who were directly affected.

Most New Yorkers blame the US.

318 Right mind left  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:57:34am

Maybe this "error" was just another distraction to take focus off the massive budget passing through with only a simple majority (just in case the GOP complains, they can't do anything except complain!)
/
But seriously...BUDGET PASSING, no surprise?
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

319 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:57:48am

re: #298 LGoPs

OT
I heard on the radio this morning that a Democrat in the House submitted a bill back in January to do away with the 2 term limit on the Presidency.
Of course it will take approval by 3/4 of the states but is revealing on the mindset of the democrats. The report said the process would take 7 years........just in time of course for the end of Obama's 2nd term.
It is messy and annoying trying to actually win elections. And even with all the media manipulation there's still an element of doubt. So why not just do away with the need for elections. Between that and the census manipulation being comtemplated, the Democrats are working hard on putting in the fix.
This makes me truly angry.

I said this would happen. In 7 years, no one will dare challenge the 0ne. The MFMSM will tar all Republicans as right-wing loonies (that has started), and no one in the "democratic" party will dare challenge him.

320 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:06am

re: #294 alegrias

* * **
Incumbents need not be bums.
Naive newbies might make great legislators.
Politicians should be judged on their merits.

Lately, on the last, I'm not sure they have any.

321 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:12am

Pakistanis stage rare protest to ‘save Pakistan, fight Taliban’

LAHORE, PAKISTAN – Hundreds of protesters marched to Lahore’s General Post Office on Tuesday armed with letters urging the government to step up its fight against Islamist insurgents.

“Mr. President, we too must fight the Taliban, who have chosen to fight against the state and who routinely terrorize and kill innocent Pakistanis. It is incumbent upon you to mobilize the nation against the scourge of the Taliban before it is too late,” read the letter, which was circulated through email and Facebook ahead of the demonstration.

Though relatively small in size, the demonstration reflects growing concern in Pakistan’s urban centers against the expansion of Taliban forces in the northwest.

322 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:27am

re: #296 Dianna

Then they should have not scheduled it, period.

It requires something close to being brain dead to think this was a good idea.

Bingo! Wish I could give you more than one upding!

At the very least, one would think the mayor of NYC could have been allowed to let the folks know that a plane would be doing a flyby - he wouldn't have needed to say it was one of the AF-1 fleet. He could have broadcast that on the news the night before, thus limiting the time for a potential terrorist to set anything up. Hell, he wouldn't have to even have announce the direction.

That way, if someone in the buildings missed the news, at least co-workers could have said it was a scheduled flight.

323 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:35am

re: #211 subsailor68

Just in case anybody here hasn't caught on yet, Obama isn't bailing out the auto companies, he's bailing out the UAW. The stockholders will get next to nothing. The bondholders will get very little. The UAW will own GM - or what's left of it.

/And that's no sarc.

324 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:40am

re: #269 unrealizedviewpoint

Just a question.
What if this administration believed that notifying the public prior may have created a security threat for the aircraft, and NYC 1000 feet beneath?

Then they should have found another way to get a high resolution photo of the plane.

325 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:41am

re: #275 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Taxpayer funded stunt fliers showing the taxpayers who's boss.

Et tu, KH?

326 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:42am

re: #311 lawhawk


The WH has can canceled a similar photo op in DC that was scheduled.

Cloudy, was it?

Seriously though, we can't lay this one at Barry's feet, although it speaks volumes of his judgment as an executive, to have so many bone-heads all around him.

327 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:48am

re: #296 Dianna

Then they should have not scheduled it, period.

It requires something close to being brain dead to think this was a good idea.

WTF..
Look at their policies for example. We expect different here? I don't. They've demonstrated time and again how their brains work. I'm awed by the incompetence.

328 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:49am

re: #309 Ben Hur

But...but.....but....it's NOT Air Force One unless the President is on board!

Who WAS onboard? Seriously, I want to know

329 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:58:52am
330 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:59:03am

re: #207 Mad Al-Jaffee

What's this about boobs?

I knew as soon as I typed it, that someone would take that direction. ;}

331 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:59:07am

C'mon. It was Cheney and Bush (who do you think was flying that thing) reliving the past!

332 Truck Monkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:59:31am

re: #219 Nevergiveup

Lebanese told no kissing to keep swine flu away

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

But can people still do the dirty deed?


Hookers don't kiss...... er, never mind.

333 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:59:57am

re: #293 Spartacus50

I am most definitely NOT a conspiracist. However, I am still absolutely livid over what I witnessed yesterday from our OWN FUCKING PRESIDENT! How else do you explain it? Nobody had a straight story after the incident and at one point, even Robert Gibbs suggested the press needs to "ask the White House".

So, in your opinion, this fly over was the Air Force's "demonstration of power to the American people?"

And you ask, how else can do you explain it. How about it's a screw up in communication between a lot of people, starting with Louis Caldera who set this up.

No one had a straight story because this was a LOW LEVEL TASK, that didn't pop up on EVERYONE'S do do list that morning.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Because it's more fun to believe that the president arranged this fly over to scare the American people and let the American people know that he RULES.

Take a walk around the block and clear your head.

334 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:59:57am

re: #299 stuiec

Thank you. That was beautiful and I've added it to my favorites.

335 gman  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:59:59am
But the flyover was nothing but a photo op, apparently one of a series of flights to get pictures of the president's airliner in front of national landmarks.

Why do I get the feeling that this is going to be Obama's legacy?
The teleprompter/photo op president

336 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:00:15am

re: #258 alegrias

* * * *
That's mindless. One can judge incumbents by their actions.

It isn't entirely mindless, although I hear what you're saying. Endless office-holding, however, runs straight against the sort of government the Founders envisioned; it leads inevitably toward a permanent ruling class, answerable to no one, whose every term in office allows them to gather more and more power unto themselves. The original plan was for the most successful of society's members - the ones who could afford it - to take a term or two away from their everyday affairs to help manage the state, then return to their private pursuits afterward. Hence the idea of term limits was never even considered - it was thought that no one would want to leave their lucrative private positions for the relative paucity of government service on a permanent basis.

Yet here we are, with every sign of permanent incumbency rooted into the political system - well over 90% of incumbents are re-elected in any given cycle - and with the emergence now of political family dynasties being the inevitable consequence - the Bushs and Clintons, preceded of course by the Kennedys.

Term limits are a good idea. And one that will never, ever be passed into law. Voting people out after they've served a couple of terms isn't a bad idea; those serving longer ought to be held to a higher standard in order to continue service.

337 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:00:25am

275 Kreuzueber Halbmond

"stunt fliers"?

Are you referring to United States Air Force officers and pilots?!

338 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:00:26am
339 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:00:30am

re: #321 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pakistanis stage rare protest to ‘save Pakistan, fight Taliban’


Hundreds. Wow. About 3 times the size of the Tea Parties.

340 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:00:38am

re: #305 debutaunt

I volunteer to toss water balloons at her.

Nope. That's an attack.

I just mean to support her opponent.

341 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:00:47am

re: #276 zipity

Really? And who's administration is this? Bush's? Clinton's? The Left held Bush responsible for anything and everything during his Administration, but I guess it's different when the Messiah is in office, eh? Excuse me while I go wretch.......

One difference about when a Democrat is President is that the opposition remains *loyal* opposition. So yes, ideally, you will see a lot less blame-storming and name-calling. I do prefer to think of the Republican party as the grown-ups in this house, and it is critically important that when the left throws a tantrum that the right does not as well.

342 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:00:57am

re: #317 Ben Hur

Not this NYer (well, I live in NJ, but the point stands).

343 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:03am

re: #319 Kosh's Shadow

I said this would happen. In 7 years, no one will dare challenge the 0ne. The MFMSM will tar all Republicans as right-wing loonies (that has started), and no one in the "democratic" party will dare challenge him.

My parents and I escaped the Soviets for this very reason. I spent some of my best years in uniform defending this country and its Constitution. I will not go quietly into the night if this comes to pass.

344 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:04am

re: #298 LGoPs

Youch! Can they really be that brazenly manipulative? If you have posted this 6 months ago my BS detector would have gone off. Now its gone off so many times I'm not sure what to believe.

Do you have a source?

345 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:06am

re: #328 Spartacus50

Who WAS onboard? Seriously, I want to know

Darth CHENEY!

346 ROPMA  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:10am
347 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:20am

re: #302 Spartacus50

What is bullshit about it? I, as a tax-paying American citizen, DEMAND to know why my fellow citizens fled for their lives yesterday. If the Press had any balls they would do the same.

Boy, I wouldn't want to have you covering my back in an emergency. Reactionary bullshit. Scary you are.

348 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:20am

re: #333 Walter L. Newton


No one had a straight story because this was a LOW LEVEL TASK, that didn't pop up on EVERYONE'S do do list that morning.

Clear thinking, at its best and simplest.

I'll have what he's having, please. Make it a double.

349 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:41am

re: #323 Son of the Black Dog

Just in case anybody here hasn't caught on yet, Obama isn't bailing out the auto companies, he's bailing out the UAW. The stockholders will get next to nothing. The bondholders will get very little. The UAW will own GM - or what's left of it.

/And that's no sarc.

Yep. And the article I linked to above wasn't even about GM, it was about Chrysler! To an extent, the UAW contributed to the problems at Chrysler, and now they're being rewarded with a 55 percent ownership.

Madness.

350 opnion  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:01:43am

re: #324 DaddyG

Then they should have found another way to get a high resolution photo of the plane.

Are we sure that the plane wasn't on a pizza run?

351 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:02:02am

If I were one of Specter's constituents, I would consider suing him, just for jollies.

352 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:02:15am

re: #235 Walter L. Newton

No, this is not his fault. It is the fault of some very dim administration officials.

It's absolutely his fault that his Homeland Security secretary didn't know about it. It's absolutely his fault that "we found out about it when you did." It's absolutely his fault that he has appointed/hired political payback hacks for key positions, including national security.

353 redstateredneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:02:32am

re: #331 Ben Hur

C'mon. It was Cheney and Bush (who do you think was flying that thing) reliving the past!

Bush was probably wearing his flight suit.

354 jill e  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:02:55am

You know, someone could have had a heart attack or other serious reaction to this flyover. It shows how unbelievably out of touch with reality these people are.

355 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:03:40am
356 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:03:52am
357 Truck Monkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:04:08am

re: #349 subsailor68

Yep. And the article I linked to above wasn't even about GM, it was about Chrysler! To an extent, the UAW contributed to the problems at Chrysler, and now they're being rewarded with a 55 percent ownership.

Madness.

I won't buy another American Car again, unless it is a Ford. Until they go the way of GM and Chrysler.

358 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:04:22am

re: #310 alegrias

All the Democrats are "thrilled" by Arlen Specter's switcheroo to their majority.

Pres. Obama called within 7 minutes of the news Specter went from GOP to Dem, and also said he was "thrilled".

Did it go up his leg?

359 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:04:29am

re: #344 DaddyG

Youch! Can they really be that brazenly manipulative? If you have posted this 6 months ago my BS detector would have gone off. Now its gone off so many times I'm not sure what to believe.

Do you have a source?

No, other than I heard it during the top of the hour news report off of KFMB in Sn Diego.

360 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:04:30am

re: #348 Guanxi88

Clear thinking, at its best and simplest.

I'll have what he's having, please. Make it a double.

Thanks. It's people like Spartacus50 that is ruining the conservative party. In four years, we'll have no respect at all. Our political and media leaders on the conservative side will be a bunch of drooling nuts who see the end of the world around every corner.

It's not going to be pretty.

361 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:04:35am

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

So, in your opinion, this fly over was the Air Force's "demonstration of power to the American people?"

And you ask, how else can do you explain it. How about it's a screw up in communication between a lot of people, starting with Louis Caldera who set this up.

No one had a straight story because this was a LOW LEVEL TASK, that didn't pop up on EVERYONE'S do do list that morning.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Because it's more fun to believe that the president arranged this fly over to scare the American people and let the American people know that he RULES.

Take a walk around the block and clear your head.

I have a picture of the 7th fleet on my wall in the den..I'm pretty sure it wasn't to scare America of an invasion forthcoming.
A simple notice a week ago to the NYTimes would have given people a heads up...This is not a conspiracy..
/Thanks for the email this morning Walter

362 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:04:36am

re: #302 Spartacus50

Because, on its face, it was an incredibly stupid and insensitive thing to do--even if all the right authorities had been alerted, some people still would have been panicked. No one seemingly thought this through. No one in the administration thought that this might even be a cause for concern. It's that lack of forethought which is disturbing to me--not some shadowy potentially nefarious motive.

Enough with the "black helicopter" nonsense. That sort of talk only serves to hurt us. Remember, the harder you try, the dumber you look; any talk which attempts to link BHO to some sinister plot against the American people will only backfire on you and the rest of us--so please knock it off.

363 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:05:13am

re: #327 unrealizedviewpoint

I'm awed by the incompetence.

So am I! The comment I made earlier still stands.

Have you ever been drunk enough, hung over enough, or over-caffeinated enough to have made this plan?

I thought not!

364 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:05:24am

re: #309 Ben Hur

But...but.....but....it's NOT Air Force One unless the President is on board!

If they photoshop him on board does it become air Force One?/

365 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:05:39am

re: #298 LGoPs

OT
I heard on the radio this morning that a Democrat in the House submitted a bill back in January to do away with the 2 term limit on the Presidency.
Of course it will take approval by 3/4 of the states but is revealing on the mindset of the democrats. The report said the process would take 7 years........just in time of course for the end of Obama's 2nd term.
It is messy and annoying trying to actually win elections. And even with all the media manipulation there's still an element of doubt. So why not just do away with the need for elections. Between that and the census manipulation being comtemplated, the Democrats are working hard on putting in the fix.
This makes me truly angry.

Was this on a reliable source, or one of the Michael Savage, Art Bell wacko shows?

366 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:05:49am
367 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:06:23am

re: #357 Truck Monkey

I won't buy another American Car again, unless it is a Ford. Until they go the way of GM and Chrysler.


LOL! Great minds think alike. See the last sentence of this post:

re: #211 subsailor68

368 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:06:24am

re: #323 Son of the Black Dog

Just in case anybody here hasn't caught on yet, Obama isn't bailing out the auto companies, he's bailing out the UAW. The stockholders will get next to nothing. The bondholders will get very little. The UAW will own GM - or what's left of it.

/And that's no sarc.

Gee--it is the '70's --only this time we're living in East Germany. The UAW will end up building American versions of the Trabant.

369 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:06:43am

How does the saying go? Never assign to malice what is just as easily assigned to stupidity.

370 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:06:44am

You've gotta love how the MSM laid EVERYTHING Bush's administration did at his feet, yet covers Obama with, "it was someone else's call..." every time someone in HIS administration f*cks up. Which seems to be more than Bush. Already.

371 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:06:44am

re: #226 Dianna

Vote against incumbents. Get your friends and neighbors to do the same.

The problem is always someone else's congresscritter, somehow.

Unfortunately, when the Constitution was written the average person didn't live long enough to make term limits an issue. Because, IMHO, if the delegates had envisioned a permanent political class, they would have written language to prevent it.

372 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:07:10am

o had to apologize. what an irresponsible thing to do in NYC. how could o not know abt. this reprehensible self serving act.
this is more evidence that o is a total narcissist.
where is the sensitivity to 8 million people who had to endure the most horrible attack on u.s. soil that has ever occurred?
and where is the msm? imagine if this had been pres. bush?

373 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:07:17am

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

Take a walk around the block and clear your head.

Perhaps you should tell the panicked NYers to do the same.

374 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:07:23am

re: #364 KenJen

If they photoshop him on board does it become air Force One?/

Somebody quick..Photoshop a picture of BO( the dog) in the co-pilots seat...
Now that will get some people excited!

375 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:07:25am
376 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:07:33am

re: #352 Russkilitlover

It's absolutely his fault that his Homeland Security secretary didn't know about it. It's absolutely his fault that "we found out about it when you did." It's absolutely his fault that he has appointed/hired political payback hacks for key positions, including national security.

No it's not. As I said above, this was a LOW LEVEL TASK that didn't show up on everyone's to do list that morning. Are you seriously saying that the president should know that a fucking picture was being taken of his plane? A task that didn't involve him one iota, didn't need his approval and certainly, hopefully, wouldn't be wasting his time with such a mundane project.

It's not his fault. It is his job to find out what happened, and to make some recommendations about how these things should be handled in the future.

377 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:07:47am

re: #328 Spartacus50

Who WAS onboard? Seriously, I want to know

I was. It really was a beautiful view of the NYC skyline, and all the people acted like they were in a horror movie just to entertain me.

/

378 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:07:55am

re: #355 buzzsawmonkey

Usually such things, even if they pass, do not apply to a sitting President. In other words, making the big assumption that it would pass, it probably would not permit Obama to run for another term consecutively.

However, after the one-term caretaker presidency of Hillary Clinton, he could run for office again.

You are no doubt correct but I also am extremely leery of Democrats not finding some way to manipulate the statutes to overcome this obstacle. And I have boundless fucking confidence in the almost comatose state of the electorate to go along with this........

379 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:08:04am

re: #360 Walter L. Newton

Thanks. It's people like Spartacus50 that is ruining the conservative party. In four years, we'll have no respect at all. Our political and media leaders on the conservative side will be a bunch of drooling nuts who see the end of the world around every corner.

It's not going to be pretty.

re: #362 calcajun

Because, on its face, it was an incredibly stupid and insensitive thing to do--even if all the right authorities had been alerted, some people still would have been panicked. No one seemingly thought this through. No one in the administration thought that this might even be a cause for concern. It's that lack of forethought which is disturbing to me--not some shadowy potentially nefarious motive.

Enough with the "black helicopter" nonsense. That sort of talk only serves to hurt us. Remember, the harder you try, the dumber you look; any talk which attempts to link BHO to some sinister plot against the American people will only backfire on you and the rest of us--so please knock it off.

And yet, we can see that this is happening to the conservative movement as we speak. The left was Jones'd, as it were, for quite some time, and I guess now that the left is in the executive branch, it's time for some on the Right to wander, half-crazed, on the road to Jonestown.

It's not too late, people! Turn back, now! The truth is dull, its is depressing, it is mundane and prosaic; come to grips with these stark facts, and realize that Barry isn't half as great as his boosters think him, nor one-quarter as bad as his detractors (myself included) think him.

380 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:08:08am

re: #327 unrealizedviewpoint

WTF..
Look at their policies for example. We expect different here? I don't. They've demonstrated time and again how their brains work. I'm awed by the incompetence.



"Indy, what is your plan?"
"I'm just making this up as I go."

That about sums it up, I guess.

381 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:08:14am

re: #320 Dianna

Lately, on the last, I'm not sure they have any.

* * *
That's harsh on all the good ones trying mightily.

382 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:08:23am

Panic? Why panic?

There is no terrorist threat!

/MM and Co.

383 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:08:42am

re: #365 haakondahl

Was this on a reliable source, or one of the Michael Savage, Art Bell wacko shows?

No, it was the actual news feed.....I don't recall what major network supports KFMB.

384 schteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:08:54am

Specter's defection is solely due to his abysmal poll numbers against the Republican primary challenger who almost beat him in 2004. That, the ongoing shift of PA voters from (R) to (D), and his total lack of principle makes this an easy choice for him.

He will now be feted by the Dems and the press and, more importantly, supported by them in the upcoming 2010 election. The seat will be hotly contested: the Dems will want to keep their 60 seats, and he will have a strong challenger, an age disadvantage, and a large number of pissed off republicans who will turn out to vote in an off year just to boot his Scottish-Law loving butt out of office.

385 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:08:57am

re: #370 Ben Hur

You've gotta love how the MSM laid EVERYTHING Bush's administration did at his feet, yet covers Obama with, "it was someone else's call..." every time someone in HIS administration f*cks up. Which seems to be more than Bush. Already.

So when he craters--and he will--and he blames the MSM for putting him in office, will they buy it?

386 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:09:08am

re: #298 LGoPs

You realize that would take a Constitutional amendment? Not going to happen.

Additionally- that lame rumor has been going around since 0bama was elected.

387 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:09:15am

It looks like Specter's move is a political one to try to salvage his reelection bid. However, Republicans might consider sticking with him. He's like Lieberman; a mixed bag moderate who will vote for what he wants to instead of party lines. His opponent will most likely be a more reliable Dem vote.
I do tend to agree with his slamming of Republicans. They have gone off the rails and they don't seem to have many economic solutions or ideas that interest me. I have issues with Obama's budget and the stimulus and bailouts were less than perfect but I consider them better than the Republican alternatives.

388 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:09:17am

re: #374 HoosierHoops

Somebody quick..Photoshop a picture of BO( the dog) in the co-pilots seat...
Now that will get some people excited!

I want to see a photoshop of an advertisment banner that reads, "I WON" being dragged behind the plane.

389 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:09:25am

re: #373 Spartacus50

Fuck you!

390 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:09:34am

re: #274 Walter L. Newton

Stop with the fucking bullshit.

If you are meaning this to be sarcastic, then please use a sarcasm tag like the rest of us do.

Or write effectively.

391 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:09:36am

re: #382 Ben Hur

Panic? Why panic?

There is no terrorist threat!

/MM and Co.

"Remain calm! All is well!" --Kevin Bacon; "Animal House"

392 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:09:37am

re: #333 Walter L. Newton Precisely Walter, this was a screw up by low level functionaries. What is disturbing is the chronicly bumbling amateurs that have been appointed by the Community Organizer in Chief and his cabinet. When your biggest claim to office is ousting the previous administration you are off to a bad start. Filling the executive office with inexperienced patronage hires perpetuates that. I expect so see more screw ups as a matter of course with this administration. The sad part is their collective egos and "We won" mentality won't slow them down a bit.

393 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:10:06am

re: #349 subsailor68

Yep. And the article I linked to above wasn't even about GM, it was about Chrysler! To an extent, the UAW contributed to the problems at Chrysler, and now they're being rewarded with a 55 percent ownership.

Madness.

If I were a major stock holder, I'd go to court.

394 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:10:24am

re: #360 Walter L. Newton

Thanks. It's people like Spartacus50 that is ruining the conservative party. In four years, we'll have no respect at all. Our political and media leaders on the conservative side will be a bunch of drooling nuts who see the end of the world around every corner.

It's not going to be pretty.

You have no idea who I am or what I represent. Don't get sanctimonious with me and you didn't campaign for GWB twice, in South Florida, like I did. How dare you dismiss me as a drooling nut.

395 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:10:31am

re: #384 schteve

Toomey may have even prevailed in 2004 with the support of GWB, who foolishly threw his support behind Specter.

396 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:10:43am

re: #373 Spartacus50

Take a walk around the block and clear your head.

Perhaps you should tell the panicked NYers to do the same.

Now you are changing the subject. This was NOT a demonstration of the Air Forces power, by Obama, to scare the American people.

You can't even stay on subject. Prove to me this was done on purpose as a demonstration of the Air Force's power. Your words, not mine, now stand up and defend you words.

Don't change the subject.

I'm sure there were a lot of scared people in NYC. But this was not done on PURPOSE.

PERIOD.

397 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:11:13am

BBL

398 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:11:38am

re: #391 calcajun

"Remain calm! All is well!" --Kevin Bacon; "Animal House"

"Please to be restful! It is only a few crazies, who have from the crazy place outbroken."
_Interzone Chamber of Commerce, Naked Lunch

399 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:11:46am

re: #364 KenJen

If they photoshop him on board does it become air Force One?/

Virtually.

400 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:11:49am

re: #343 LGoPs

My parents and I escaped the Soviets for this very reason. I spent some of my best years in uniform defending this country and its Constitution. I will not go quietly into the night if this comes to pass.

* * *
Thank you for your service.

Like many here who left socialist republics, it's hard to watch Americans go quietly into what we left behind.

401 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:11:58am

re: #386 Sharmuta

You realize that would take a Constitutional amendment? Not going to happen.

Additionally- that lame rumor has been going around since 0bama was elected.

I said that it would take an Amendment. And the report came from a news report at the top of the hour, unrelated to the Talk Show. The host was silent on the issue when the program came back on.

402 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:12:07am

re: #373 Spartacus50

Asshole- that's every bit as insensitive to New Yorkers as what the administration did yesterday. You should be ashamed of yourself.

403 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:12:24am

re: #401 LGoPs

I think it's bullshit.

404 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:12:28am

In a related story, the White House is scraping a plan to boost consumer confidence which would have had rental trucks parked outside federal buildings

405 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:12:40am

re: #349 subsailor68

Yep. And the article I linked to above wasn't even about GM, it was about Chrysler! To an extent, the UAW contributed to the problems at Chrysler, and now they're being rewarded with a 55 percent ownership.

Madness.

Any thoughts on whether this will be good or bad for the companies?

On the one hand, employee-owned business generally do pretty well.

On the other, many of these employees are of the gimme-more populist, union mindset which generally fights against profitability.

406 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:12:42am

re: #381 alegrias

* * *
That's harsh on all the good ones trying mightily.

Probably. But lately, I'm just disgusted. I'm not seeing an intelligent opposition, either in Washington or in Sacramento.

407 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:12:54am
408 Gella  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:04am

re: #343 LGoPs

My parents and I escaped the Soviets for this very reason. I spent some of my best years in uniform defending this country and its Constitution. I will not go quietly into the night if this comes to pass.

i concur about that, that reminds me of old good soviets brainwashing

409 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:08am

re: #394 Spartacus50

You have no idea who I am or what I represent. Don't get sanctimonious with me and you didn't campaign for GWB twice, in South Florida, like I did. How dare you dismiss me as a drooling nut.

Yeah, he hardly ever drools. It's more of a spittle thing.

/couldn't resist.

410 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:10am

re: #392 DaddyG

Precisely Walter, this was a screw up by low level functionaries. What is disturbing is the chronicly bumbling amateurs that have been appointed by the Community Organizer in Chief and his cabinet. When your biggest claim to office is ousting the previous administration you are off to a bad start. Filling the executive office with inexperienced patronage hires perpetuates that. I expect so see more screw ups as a matter of course with this administration. The sad part is their collective egos and "We won" mentality won't slow them down a bit.

I agree with that. Yes, these low level screw ups are indicative of the sort of folks that Obama has put into positions of authority, and it's not looking good.

411 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:17am

re: #403 Sharmuta

I think it's bullshit.

Well that's fine but it doesn't change the content of news report.

412 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:19am

re: #392 DaddyG


I'm still not buying the WH words. Obama is mad because his fools screwed up just before his 100days mark and it makes him look stupid.

413 kansas  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:21am
414 LieSeeker  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:28am

Why are new photos needed, and why at more than one location? I'm sure they already have some photos. It's still the same plane and it still has the same paint style. If they paint the president's name by the door, just edit that out. And if they're so concerned about security, shouldn't they instead distribute photos of a different kind of plane so the bad guys will get confused about their target?

415 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:37am

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

You're correct.

I don't think that's going to be a pleasant meeting.

416 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:42am

re: #392 DaddyG

That is the problem--they engage in too much "groupthink" and not enough circumspection.

417 JustMyView  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:59am

re: #395 rawmuse

Toomey may have even prevailed in 2004 with the support of GWB, who foolishly threw his support behind Specter.

I believe that Clinton, Gore, and Kerry all carried Pennsylvania. And Obama carried it by 10 points. Pennsylvania also has a Democratic governor. The idea that a very conservative Republican, which Pat Toomey is, is going to carry PA in 2010 seems overly optimistic to me.

Note, too, Republican party registration in PA dropped by 200,000 in 2008.

418 sattv4u2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:14:13am

re: #373 Spartacus50

Take a walk around the block and clear your head.

Perhaps you should tell the panicked NYers to do the same.

Mayber you should take a walk around the blocks where the WTC used to stand.

May clear YOUR head !

419 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:14:13am

re: #328 Spartacus50

Who WAS onboard? Seriously, I want to know

I'm not supposed to mention this, but I have discovered the real reason for the flight. Hint--the planes was filled... with Zombies.

I'm sure you can put the rest together froom there.

420 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:14:25am

re: #416 calcajun

That is the problem--they engage in too much "groupthink" and not enough circumspection.

Well, they can't all be Jewish men, can they?

/

421 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:14:52am

re: #405 eschew_obfuscation

Any thoughts on whether this will be good or bad for the companies?

On the one hand, employee-owned business generally do pretty well.

On the other, many of these employees are of the gimme-more populist, union mindset which generally fights against profitability.

Great question. My guess is that it won't go all that well, as the control of decision making would be in the hands of UAW management, which is a bit different from a situation where the employees have a direct stake in the success of the company. (But I'm no expert in this area - perhaps some other lizards have a more informed opinion?)

422 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:14:53am
423 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:15:02am

re: #417 JustMyView


Note, too, Republican party registration in PA dropped by 200,000 in 2008.

Operation Chaos

424 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:15:14am
Don't get sanctimonious with me and you didn't campaign for GWB twice, in South Florida, like I did. How dare you dismiss me as a drooling nut.

LOL!

Oh geeze, the drooling nuts are out in force today ...

425 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:15:16am

re: #342 lawhawk

Not this NYer (well, I live in NJ, but the point stands).

Nor this one...

426 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:15:23am

re: #376 Walter L. Newton


It's not his fault. It is his job to find out what happened, and to make some recommendations about how these things should be handled in the future.

Okay. I'll buy that he may not have known until too late. However, if he doesn't take responsibility and FIRE people for this, then I will renew my attack on his sensitivity and common sense.

427 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:16:00am

re: #394 Spartacus50

You have no idea who I am or what I represent. Don't get sanctimonious with me and you didn't campaign for GWB twice, in South Florida, like I did. How dare you dismiss me as a drooling nut.

Because you sound like one?

The New Yorkers, generally, seem to be over it. They're irate, but they're not frothing and spewing wild accusations.

Calm down. Your comments have read as positively unhinged.

428 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:16:09am

re: #396 Walter L. Newton

Don't change the subject.

Don't wait for the translation! Answer the question!" A. Stevenson (and Christopher Plummer)///

429 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:16:49am

re: #394 Spartacus50

You have no idea who I am or what I represent. Don't get sanctimonious with me and you didn't campaign for GWB twice, in South Florida, like I did. How dare you dismiss me as a drooling nut.

Of course I dare, this is an open forum, I can dare almost anything with in the rules of this blog. Sorry you don't like that. You telegraph who and what you are every time you leave a reactionary comment here.

I asked you to prove your original point and you can't. You said that the fly over was a demonstration of the Air Force's power to scare Americans.

Prove your point.

430 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:16:54am

re: #412 Dustoff-507

I'm still not buying the WH words. Obama is mad because his fools screwed up just before his 100days mark and it makes him look stupid.

Those words would mean more if they had apologized right away and relived the person responsible for the shoot from their duties (not the AF, the pilots or the photog. The actual staffer who thought the idea up and put it into motion).

431 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:17:01am

re: #396 Walter L. Newton

Now you are changing the subject. This was NOT a demonstration of the Air Forces power, by Obama, to scare the American people.

You can't even stay on subject. Prove to me this was done on purpose as a demonstration of the Air Force's power. Your words, not mine, now stand up and defend you words.

Don't change the subject.

I'm sure there were a lot of scared people in NYC. But this was not done on PURPOSE.

PERIOD.

You are not allowed to question a wacky post Walter...Cause..
and you didn't campaign for GWB twice, in South Florida, like I did.
Well that explains it...
Let me clear this up for you sparticus50..
Nobody gives a shit who you campaigned for..A whack post deserves it's downdings..enjoy

432 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:17:09am

re: #370 Ben Hur

You've gotta love how the MSM laid EVERYTHING Bush's administration did at his feet, yet covers Obama with, "it was someone else's call..." every time someone in HIS administration f*cks up. Which seems to be more than Bush. Already.

On the job training...

433 turn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:17:39am

A far better photo op would be air force one flying over Baghdad IMO.

434 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:18:06am

re: #426 Russkilitlover

Okay. I'll buy that he may not have known until too late. However, if he doesn't take responsibility and FIRE people for this, then I will renew my attack on his sensitivity and common sense.

And in my opinion, that would be well founded.

435 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:18:06am

re: #403 Sharmuta

I think it's bullshit.


I did a quick search and here's the background:

Now that Obama will control the White House, the House of Representatives have introduced legislation (H.J.5) which will repeal the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President. Introduced 06Jan09 by Rep. José Serrano [D-NY].

[Link: digg.com...]

436 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:18:37am

re: #395 rawmuse

Toomey may have even prevailed in 2004 with the support of GWB, who foolishly threw his support behind Specter.

* * * *
Pres. Bush was thinking SUPREME COURT appointees at the time, and needed Sen. Specter's vote as Chairman of the Judiciary committee.

Without Specter, we might not have gotten Chief Justice Roberts and the other one I'm forgetting.

437 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:18:51am

re: #408 Gella

old good soviets brainwashing

Yes, accept no substitutes! When it comes to radical re-education there's no school like the old Soviet school. Beria U. is offering on-line degrees now, so act today...///

438 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:19:01am

re: #407 buzzsawmonkey

Having participated in prior campaigns does not mean you cannot also be a drooling nut.

I am not, of course, saying that you are a drooling nut--merely that your campaign history does not go to establish that you aren't.

It sure as hell establishes my conservative credentials.

439 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:19:05am

Meanwhile, a group of Somali fishermen are going after the pirates.

Of course, the BBC labels them with the contemptuous word "vigilantes".

When there is no duly constituted, effectively operating law enforcement, what choice do people have?

440 tedzilla99  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:19:05am

There's absolutely no possible way that PBO did not know about this. To let him off the hook for this obvious lie is just inexcusable.

441 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:19:31am

what really bothers me abt. this is the total lack of sensitivity of how 9-11
affected the citizens of n.y.c.
how could anyone but a fcking lib go forward w/ a move like this.
it really shows me that many people in this country have no idea what 9-11 was all abt. they do not understand the danger that still faces us.
and this is the party in office now. idiots prancing around the world as if the
terrorists, who killed 3,000 human beings, can be reached w/ absurd meaningless platitudes because o wants to show his special messianic lightworker powers.

i wasn't in the city when this happened but even my lib friends were terrified
and are quite upset.
people should have been properly warned.

442 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:19:32am

Thanks to special HD cameras and image enhancement, we have identified the plane's pilot.

Shocking

443 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:19:37am
444 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:20:07am

re: #420 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, they can't all be Jewish men, can they?

/

That was an unkind cut.//

445 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:20:07am
446 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:20:10am

re: #421 subsailor68

Great question. My guess is that it won't go all that well, as the control of decision making would be in the hands of UAW management, which is a bit different from a situation where the employees have a direct stake in the success of the company. (But I'm no expert in this area - perhaps some other lizards have a more informed opinion?)

My understanding is that the union will only have one rep on the board. The ownership would only matter in electing board members wouldn't it?

447 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:20:33am

re: #443 buzzsawmonkey

I guess nobody noticed Robert Reich jumping up and down on a Manhattan streetcorner and shouting, "The plane! The plane!"

Ahh. But who is the "boss"?

448 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:20:39am

re: #406 Dianna

Probably. But lately, I'm just disgusted. I'm not seeing an intelligent opposition, either in Washington or in Sacramento.

* * * *
Blaming the victim, not too helpful.
The good GOP people need vocal support and financial support.
Back seat drivers complaining about all of them, aren't helpful.

449 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:20:43am

re: #435 LGoPs

[Link: digg.com...]

He does it every year. Nothing here. Move on.

450 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:21:24am

re: #438 Spartacus50

It sure as hell establishes my conservative credentials.

Forgive me, but you're an on-line nic, your claim establishes nothing at all except that you typed it.

We've lost count, I think, of the mobys we've dealt with here.

451 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:21:42am

re: #438 Spartacus50

It sure as hell establishes my conservative credentials.

You have a very skewed concept as to what a conservative is. And even so, being a conservative doesn't mean that you have to leave your critical thinking skills at the door.

Now, I will ask you a THIRD time to prove your point. You stated the the fly over was an attempt, by the Obama administration to prove the Air Force's power to scare the American people.

Prove it.

452 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:21:46am

re: #439 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, a group of Somali fishermen are going after the pirates.

Of course, the BBC labels them with the contemptuous word "vigilantes".

When there is no duly constituted, effectively operating law enforcement, what choice do people have?

Interesting. I think there's a historical precedent for that too. As I recall governments in the colonial era payed captains to capture pirates.

453 Dustoff-507  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:01am

re: #430 DaddyG


Sure they did... NY with a ton of lib voters.

Not a good idea

454 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:06am

Comments from PrisonPlanet:

Mitzy Says:
April 27th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

This was a broad daylight spraying of influenza-A H1N1. Get ready.


Bill Says:
April 28th, 2009 at 12:42 am

Well they knew there was an swine flu pandemic so they fly a plane over the city and make everyone freak out and run out of builds to come in to the street so they can talk to eachother and perhaps even sneeze on each other hopefully spreading the swine flu big time.

LMAO.

455 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:18am

re: #435 LGoPs

[Link: digg.com...]


H. J. Res. 5:
111th Congress

This is a joint resolutions (H.J.Res. or S.J.Res.) in the U.S. Congress. Joint resolutions serve two purposes. First, they are used exactly as bills to enact law, generally for limited matters. Used this way, they must be passed by both the House and Senate and must be signed by the President before becoming law. Joint resolutions are also used to propose amendments to the Constitution. Used this way, they must be passed by both the House and Senate and be ratified by three-quarters of the states, but do not require the signature of the President, to become a part of the Constitution.

Bill numbers restart from 1 every two years. Each two-year cycle is called a session of Congress. This bill was created in the 111th Congress, in 2009-2010.

The titles of bills are written by the bill's sponsor and are a part of the legislation itself. GovTrack does not editorialize bill summaries.
2009-2010

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second...

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second article of amendment, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President.

456 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:31am

re: #446 eschew_obfuscation

My understanding is that the union will only have one rep on the board. The ownership would only matter in electing board members wouldn't it?

Hmm...you may be right on that, I'm not sure. In either case, though, I'd assume a 55 percent ownership would give UAW the power to place members on the board who would follow their line of thinking. (Again, not an expert here.)

457 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:43am

re: #447 calcajun

Ahh. But who is the "boss"?

Tony Danza, of course!

458 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:43am

This NYC Air Force 1 stunt is symbolic of the whole Obama presidency. Like his grotesque Berlin rally, the Denver Convention speech with the Greek columns, his habit of mentioning himself in every speech, whatever the situation no matter how relevant. In Obama's mind, the whole country, & even the entire world, is nothing more than a magnificent backdrop for me. ME!

That's the Obama Doctrine: Me!

459 aggieann  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:53am

re: #375 buzzsawmonkey

Somebody needs to link to Iowahawk's "Obama Motors" column.

The Iowahawk Council of Automotive Advisors

Every new day seems to offer a fresh assload of ideas for saving the U.S. automotive industry, most of which are proposed by law professors and involve -- shockingly -- the mass hiring of law professors. Soon after the election, for example, former law professor Barack Obama first floated another law professor as his "Car Czar" ( although he ended up settling on the only thing arguably more useless in a car emergency: a Benz-driving financier with a journalism degree). Today, law professor Professor Bainbridge proposes his own bold plan for rescuing General Motors: appointing law professor Hugh Hewitt to the GM Board. This brainstorm was quickly endorsed by law professor Glenn Reynolds.

With all due respect, WTF? I mean, sure, Hewitt is pleasant enough on the radio, and we all loved him in Christmas Story. But when it comes to naming a savior for the American car biz, I think we can do better. And by "we," I of course mean "me." And so, today, I would like to nominate Yours Truly as Grand Exalted Poobah for National Automotive Strategy.

I know what you're saying: "hey Dave, didn't you recently crap out in your attempts at the White House and the Illinois Senate?" Okay, if you want to get technical about it, but now we're finally talking about a government job I'm vaguely qualified for. And if I can lower my expectations, shouldn't you? Just look at what I bring to the table:

1. I am not a law professor.
2. Unlike nearly every other moron giving advice to Detroit, I actually know how to build a car.

As such, I realize the industry is not suffering from a lack of law professors -- it is suffering from a lack of imagination. They gave us cup holders and electric seat warmers when we wanted angel fur and bubble tops. They pushed micro-clown cars and hybrids when the market was rife for chromed 8-deuce Chrysler Hemis. Well, Bucko, all that outmoded thinking is going to end during the reign of Czar Dave. Saving the American auto industry is going to be a big job, but I won't be doing it alone. I have already appointed my own shadow Council of Automotive Advisors, a select group of successful auto manufacturers whose qualifications appear after the jump. Many are close personal friends of mine, and I can attest to their patriotism, integrity, ingenuity, and wonderful lack of law degrees.

So stop despairing about the fate of the American car business, and do something about it. Write President Obama and your congressman today and demand my immediate, permanent appointment, along with unlimited regulatory powers and expense account. Together we can save Detroit -- and if you act now, I'll get you tickets for the 2009 Washington Mall Summernationals!

To read it all, go to [Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]
scroll about halfway down the page (after you've read the rest of iowahawk's genius prose)

460 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:57am

re: #448 alegrias

* * * *
Blaming the victim, not too helpful.
The good GOP people need vocal support and financial support.
Back seat drivers complaining about all of them, aren't helpful.

I'm not a back seat driver.

461 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:23:02am
payed


Duh.

462 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:23:29am

438 Spartacus50

It sure as hell establishes my conservative credentials.

It doesn't establish anything, except that you claim to have campaigned for Bush.

463 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:23:37am

re: #440 tedzilla99

As Walter pointed out earlier, there is no way for the POTUS to know everything that is going on for any given day. This was a small PR affair which had been planned for weeks. If he had been told and a few other adults were with him, they would have reached the inescapable conclusion that this was a bad idea.

Anyone who works in large organizations knows how this sort of thing can happen. The POTUS is vicariously responsible--but it is not likely that he had foreknowledge of this particular event.

464 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:24:10am

re: #435 LGoPs Oh crap! I don't like to see unlimited terms no matter who is in power. In fact I'd like to see the Senate and House limit themselves.

465 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:24:31am

re: #439 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, a group of Somali fishermen are going after the pirates.

Of course, the BBC labels them with the contemptuous word "vigilantes".

When there is no duly constituted, effectively operating law enforcement, what choice do people have?

How can they be "vigilantes" when there is no law enforcement per se?

466 ConservatismNow!  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:24:33am

re: #439 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, a group of Somali fishermen are going after the pirates.

Of course, the BBC labels them with the contemptuous word "vigilantes".

When there is no duly constituted, effectively operating law enforcement, what choice do people have?

vig-i-lante 
–noun 1. a member of a vigilance committee.
2. any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.


You have to have a law first before you can take it into your own hands.

467 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:24:37am
468 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:24:58am

Karl Rove says
"Self-preservation" was Specter's motivation to switcheroo. Specter has drifted far too left.

"Chris Simcox will be a 'nuisance" candidate against John McCain."

Whereas, Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania ....

Fox News.

469 kansas  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:25:04am

I suppose it goes without saying that the MSM would have shit a large brick if this had been Bush.

470 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:25:16am

re: #429 Walter L. Newton

Of course I dare, this is an open forum, I can dare almost anything with in the rules of this blog. Sorry you don't like that. You telegraph who and what you are every time you leave a reactionary comment here.

I asked you to prove your original point and you can't. You said that the fly over was a demonstration of the Air Force's power to scare Americans.

Prove your point.

How else do you explain it? There is no logic to a "photo op" and where was the cameraman in a single seat F-16, flying in AF1s 6 'o clock? There is clearly another reason for this circus stunt flyby that nobody thus far has dared question with even a follow-up question.
You mean to tell me that entire departments of the federal government were notified in advance and nobody bothered leaking the info?

471 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:25:18am

re: #457 tfc3rid

Tony Danza, of course!

Tony Danza, count the head lice on the highway

472 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:25:24am

re: #438 Spartacus50

It sure as hell establishes my conservative credentials.

My summer palace in Kyoto has always helped me establish my credentials as the Czarina of Tokyo

473 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:25:56am

re: #435 LGoPs

[Link: digg.com...]

I'm fairly confident this will go nowhere.

474 tedzilla99  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #463 calcajun

As Walter pointed out earlier, there is no way for the POTUS to know everything that is going on for any given day. This was a small PR affair which had been planned for weeks. If he had been told and a few other adults were with him, they would have reached the inescapable conclusion that this was a bad idea.

Anyone who works in large organizations knows how this sort of thing can happen. The POTUS is vicariously responsible--but it is not likely that he had foreknowledge of this particular event.

So you want me to believe that the president didn't know that his personal aircraft was going to be gone to NYC? Seriously? Knowing full well that he can't fly anywhere with it being gone?

475 Rexatosis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:05am

Somebody at the WH knew about this, there is no way the White House is not aware of the location of the planes making up the "Air Force 1/2 Fleet." Decisions and actions (and inaction) have consequences. It would be nice if the Obama White House could come to grips with this basic fundamental truth.

Re Sen. Specter's abandonment of the GOP, there has to be a serious cookie for him to switch parties this late in his career (like maybe a clear path to the Democratic nomination or promise of an ambassadorship if he loses?). This is essentially the problem with the political class, they have no loyalty nor honor.

476 aggieann  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:05am

re: #432 tfc3rid

On the job training...

Well, Bush being a grown-up and all, knew what to do.

477 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:21am

re: #472 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My summer palace in Kyoto has always helped me establish my credentials as the Czarina of Tokyo

How's the Sushi there?

478 kansas  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:24am

re: #463 calcajun

As Walter pointed out earlier, there is no way for the POTUS to know everything that is going on for any given day. This was a small PR affair which had been planned for weeks. If he had been told and a few other adults were with him, they would have reached the inescapable conclusion that this was a bad idea.

Anyone who works in large organizations knows how this sort of thing can happen. The POTUS is vicariously responsible--but it is not likely that he had foreknowledge of this particular event.

See my #469. I think we are pissed that the MSM cut Obama so much slack. Can't wait to see them lick his ass tomorrow night. Oh, wait. I won't watch.

479 sattv4u2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:25am

re: #469 kansas

I suppose it goes without saying that the MSM would have shit a large brick if this had been Bush.

headlines

INSENSITIVE
DUMB STUNT
SCARING CHILDREN

480 Mad Mullah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:26am

The next time a bunch of tourists wants to snap a few pictures of the White House, why don't they just rent a 747 escorted by a few MIG's and fly really low so that they can get a better view and better pictures? Do you think that Obama would get frightened?

I do not accept Obama's apology. Some things are just inexcusable.

481 turn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:42am

re: #440 tedzilla99

There's absolutely no possible way that PBO did not know about this. To let him off the hook for this obvious lie is just inexcusable.

If that turns out to be true Caldera sure has some dirt on O, I doubt it however.

482 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:45am

OT:

Here's a link to a sobering article in the Times of London:

The men, decorated veterans of more than 40 tours of duty in Chechnya, said not only suspected rebels but also people close to them were systematically tracked, abducted, tortured and killed. Intelligence was often extracted by breaking their limbs with a hammer, administering electric shocks and forcing men to perform sexual acts on each other. The bodies were either buried in unmarked pits or pulverised.

Far from being the work of a few ruthless mavericks, such methods were widely used among special forces, the men said. They were backed by their superiors on the understanding that operations were to be carried out covertly and that any officers who were caught risked prosecution: the Russian government publicly condemns torture and extrajudicial killings and denies that its army committed war crimes in Chechnya.

In practice, said Andrei and Vladimir, the second officer, the Kremlin turned a blind eye. “Anyone in power who took the slightest interest in the war knows this was going on,” Andrei said. “Our only aim was to wipe out the terrorists.”

No wonder terrorists love to fight us. A few minutes in a dunk tank and you get a cot and a hot meal. With the Russians, not so much.

483 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:46am

re: #474 tedzilla99

So you want me to believe that the president didn't know that his personal aircraft was going to be gone to NYC? Seriously? Knowing full well that he can't fly anywhere with it being gone?

There are two aircraft, and AF1 trips are planned in advance, generally.

484 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:26:52am

re: #454 Fat Jolly Penguin

Comments from PrisonPlanet

Ewww... You tracked something in on the bottom of your shoe.

485 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:27:20am

re: #433 turn

A far better photo op would be air force one flying over Baghdad IMO.

* * * *
No, that would be taken as confirmation of "Illegal Okkupayshun" which happened when Pres. Obama was only 40 years old.

486 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:27:28am

re: #452 Killgore Trout

Interesting. I think there's a historical precedent for that too. As I recall governments in the colonial era payed captains to capture pirates.

Indeed. The technical term is a "letter of marque", I believe. Empowers private owners to fit out vessels for military operations against an enemy. Captured enemy cargo is the reward.

487 sattv4u2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:27:31am

re: #474 tedzilla99

So you want me to believe that the president didn't know that his personal aircraft was going to be gone to NYC? Seriously? Knowing full well that he can't fly anywhere with it being gone?

I don't doubt that he (or at least Rahm) knew of it, but the plane that was flying around NYC is actually the back-up to AF 1

488 ConservatismNow!  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:27:45am

re: #477 Nevergiveup

How's the Sushi there?

Sashimi grade as always

489 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:28:16am

re: #462 Thom

It looks like nobody told you; if you click the blue word "reply" on the post you are replying to, you will automagically have that post's number and nic (and a link!) at the top of your post.

490 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:28:23am

re: #470 Spartacus50

How else do you explain it? There is no logic to a "photo op" and where was the cameraman in a single seat F-16, flying in AF1s 6 'o clock? There is clearly another reason for this circus stunt flyby that nobody thus far has dared question with even a follow-up question.
You mean to tell me that entire departments of the federal government were notified in advance and nobody bothered leaking the info?

1) A LOW LEVEL TASK to get some new AF-1 photos was ordered by a LOW LEVEL person who orders these sort of things.
2) He/they passed the info about the shoot on to other LOW LEVEL dudes in New York and New Jersey, and communications broke down.
3) Pictures was taken, people were scared

now git.

491 aggieann  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:28:29am

re: #467 buzzsawmonkey

I was thinking of the one about the Obama Car, which could get up to 45 miles an hour--if it were allowed to by law. Something like that.

Sorry! But maybe this will introduce some lizards to Iowahawk.

492 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:28:33am

re: #474 tedzilla99

So you want me to believe that the president didn't know that his personal aircraft was going to be gone to NYC? Seriously? Knowing full well that he can't fly anywhere with it being gone?

I believe he's got a few of these and I also doubt he's watching them from his bedroom window.

493 Kragarghazi  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:28:55am

re: #477 Nevergiveup

How's the Sushi there?

Not too bad, but when I go there I usually get crabs

/rimshot

494 turn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:29:12am

re: #451 Walter L. Newton

Oh man, he said that? No wonder you guys are jumping all over him, jeeze the last thing the republicans need is another crazy kook right wing conspiracy theory like that.

495 Cygnus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:29:47am

re: #389 Sharmuta

Fuck you!

And the 747 you rode in on.

496 JustMyView  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:29:57am

The Specter situation is reminiscent of what happened in Virginia in 2008. The Republican party chose a fairly unpopular and very conservative candidate (Jim Gilmore) over a more moderate candidate (Tom Davis) and got stomped by Mark Warner, a moderate Dem, in the contest over an open Senate seat.

If, as expected, Toomey is chosen as the Republican candidate in PA in 2010, he'll be running against the moderate (and well-known) Specter in a Dem-leaning state.

497 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:00am
498 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:17am

re: #480 Mad Mullah

The next time a bunch of tourists wants to snap a few pictures of the White House, why don't they just rent a 747 escorted by a few MIG's and fly really low so that they can get a better view and better pictures? Do you think that Obama would get frightened?

I do not accept Obama's apology. Some things are just inexcusable.

That actually did just happen. They needed move the One because some small aircraft flew in to protected space over the WH.

499 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:18am

re: #487 sattv4u2

As repeated above - any plane with the President on board is AF1. The plane yesterday could be one of two VC-25s (military version of Boeing 747), with SAM 28000 or SAM 29000 call signs (28000 and 29000 are the tail numbers). The planes are usually flown together since they are a backup to each other. With one plane out, that leaves only one at Andrews in case of an emergency.

It was a foul up, and the buck has to stop somewhere.

500 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:20am

re: #470 Spartacus50

Did you bring enough to share?

501 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:34am

re: #349 subsailor68

Yep. And the article I linked to above wasn't even about GM, it was about Chrysler! To an extent, the UAW contributed to the problems at Chrysler, and now they're being rewarded with a 55 percent ownership.

Madness.

subsailor68 -

As an ex- UAW'er - put it this way - we couldn't build them any better than they were designed. To emphasize the point - look at the UAW Represented Plants in Fremont, CA (NUMMI), Normal, IL (former "Diamond-Star") and Flat Rock, MI (Mazda/Ford). Design and production processes were and remain managerial perogatives. Pay, Benefits and "Industrial Due Process" the province of the Union as it interacts with management.
Could things have been handled better on both sides? Certainly, yes - and -
"coulda, shoulda, woulda" won't buy a Bus Ticket without the fare.
Do I believe that 55% ownership of Chrysler is Fair - NO! Do I suspect the Union will hold the shares forever if the new company becomes profitable -
Again NO! They will cash out as required to pay legacy benefits. My problem is that their allocated share is unfair.

-S-

502 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:42am

re: #470 Spartacus50

Sir, as Freud once remarked, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." You opinion is only as good as the facts on which it is based. You have no real facts, just argument. One F-16 and a 747 do not a display of air power make--unless your trying to spook a band of stick-wielding aborigines (who are pretty sophisticated these days) You have nothing to support your conclusions other than the same evidence we all have seen--and that is hardly conclusive.

503 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:43am

re: #474 tedzilla99

So you want me to believe that the president didn't know that his personal aircraft was going to be gone to NYC? Seriously? Knowing full well that he can't fly anywhere with it being gone?

Yes, since he has more than one AF-1. This was a fucking photo shoot, arranged by LOW LEVEL grunts, passing the project on to other LOW LEVEL grunts, communications among all the LOW LEVEL grunts was shitty and people got scared.

End of story.

504 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:55am

re: #463 calcajun


Anyone who works in large organizations knows how this sort of thing can happen. The POTUS is vicariously responsible--but it is not likely that he had foreknowledge of this particular event.

When he fires someone for this and publicly rebukes the decisions made, I will let him off the hook. If this gets swept under the rug, my disdain for him and his entire Administration will increase ten fold.

505 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:30:56am

re: #460 Dianna

I'm not a back seat driver.

* * * *
Dianna,
Glad to hear it.
GOP is surrounded and needs reinforcement, not more backstabbing & defection, to counter the left.

506 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:10am

And for some good news...

'Highly intimate' photos and video of Carla Bruni with ex-lover stolen from Paris flat

Say what you like about the French, but they sure know how to have a good political scandal!

507 tedzilla99  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:17am

re: #483 Kosh's Shadow

There are two aircraft, and AF1 trips are planned in advance, generally.

I understand that, which goes back to the amount of planning involved in that plane going anywhere. There's just no way that nobody knew about this until it happened - press secretary, DHS, etc. - nobody knew? Please. I'll buy that PBO may not have been asked directly and said "Yeah go for it" but to say that he found out about it when we all did stretches all credulity.

508 pink freud  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:23am

If anyone would like to contribute, we have a live thread in the spin off:

Evening Newscasts Have Covered Hussein More than Bush and Bubba Combined.

509 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:35am
510 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:45am

re: #440 tedzilla99

There's absolutely no possible way that PBO did not know about this. To let him off the hook for this obvious lie is just inexcusable.

Knowing how much info. gets passed through and under any top level Executive's nose in any given day I have to say he probably didn't know about it or certainly not the details. That's why it is imperative that the White House hires and promotes experienced and trustworthy staffers (who can make mature and well planned decisions). This is a failure to retain or hire that kind of leadership. That is what is telling about this administration.

The Bush bashing is having a boomerang effect as everyone expects Obama to be in direct control of every minute detail. That isn't realistic.

511 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:46am

re: #494 turn

Oh man, he said that? No wonder you guys are jumping all over him, jeeze the last thing the republicans need is another crazy kook right wing conspiracy theory like that.

Yes, in his first comment up thread.

512 irongrampa  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:48am

I guess episodes like the flyover are simply another demonstration that stupidity is indeed painless.

If that's really true, these people should never experience discomfort.

513 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:54am
514 sattv4u2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:56am

re: #499 lawhawk

As repeated above - any plane with the President on board is AF1. The plane yesterday could be one of two VC-25s (military version of Boeing 747), with SAM 28000 or SAM 29000 call signs (28000 and 29000 are the tail numbers). The planes are usually flown together since they are a backup to each other. With one plane out, that leaves only one at Andrews in case of an emergency.

It was a foul up, and the buck has to stop somewhere.

I fully agree, I was just pointing out that the one in the air didn;t leave the President without "the" plane if needed (not to mention that the one that was in NYC could be back in Washington within an hour or so)

515 turn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:31:59am

re: #469 kansas

I suppose it goes without saying that the MSM would have shit a large brick if this had been Bush.

Yeah, sideways. spit

516 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:32:02am

re: #502 calcajun

Actually, one run by a B1 bomber at low level was enough to scare a bunch of Taliban into retreat in Afghanistan. I'll have to track down that report/video.

517 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:32:09am

More laundry.

Why is it that my days off end up busier than my work days?

518 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:32:16am

re: #490 Walter L. Newton

1) A LOW LEVEL TASK to get some new AF-1 photos was ordered by a LOW LEVEL person who orders these sort of things.
2) He/they passed the info about the shoot on to other LOW LEVEL dudes in New York and New Jersey, and communications broke down.
3) Pictures was taken, people were scared

now git.

Where are my taxpayer-funded photos? I dare the Government to produce a single photo that was taken during this flight. Why isn't the Press asking for them too?

519 Last Mohican  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:32:18am

re: #458 Kenneth

This NYC Air Force 1 stunt is symbolic of the whole Obama presidency. Like his grotesque Berlin rally, the Denver Convention speech with the Greek columns, his habit of mentioning himself in every speech, whatever the situation no matter how relevant. In Obama's mind, the whole country, & even the entire world, is nothing more than a magnificent backdrop for me. ME!

That's the Obama Doctrine: Me!

Five million bucks for that completely unnecessary Greek temple extravaganza. Utterly and completely unnecessary -- the Democratic party had already rented a perfectly good hall for the convention.

And meanwhile the MSM was writing front-page articles about how wasteful it was for the GOP to spend a hundred thousand on the clothes that Sarah Palin wore while campaigning, even though (1) she had to wear clothes while campaigning (yes she did, get your mind out of the gutter), and (2) I believe the clothes were donated to charity when she was done with them.

520 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:32:27am

re: #458 Kenneth

This NYC Air Force 1 stunt is symbolic of the whole Obama presidency. Like his grotesque Berlin rally, the Denver Convention speech with the Greek columns, his habit of mentioning himself in every speech, whatever the situation no matter how relevant. In Obama's mind, the whole country, & even the entire world, is nothing more than a magnificent backdrop for me. ME!

That's the Obama Doctrine: Me!

exactly, that is how i see it.
and the fact that they didn't comprehend the need to warn people in nyc just really shows how arrogant o and his cronies are.
did it even cross their minds?
libs do NOT care abt. the citizens of this country.
they are so reckless is their narcissism.

521 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:32:37am

re: #337 Thom

275 Kreuzueber Halbmond

"stunt fliers"?

Are you referring to United States Air Force officers and pilots?!

It was a stunt, and some idiot in the chain of command thought it was a good idea. Do I hold the pilot accountable? No. Too many people in government with too much taxpayer money to spend? Yes.

522 tedzilla99  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:33:13am

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

Yes, since he has more than one AF-1. This was a fucking photo shoot, arranged by LOW LEVEL grunts, passing the project on to other LOW LEVEL grunts, communications among all the LOW LEVEL grunts was shitty and people got scared.

End of story.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

523 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:33:23am

re: #1 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Unbelievable.

BREAKING: Arlen Specter reportedly switching from GOP to Democratic Party.

great catch

but unbelieveable ?
nah - he's always been one

time for McCain to join him

524 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:33:33am

re: #504 Russkilitlover

I agree. Someone has got to fall on the sword for this one.

525 SFGoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:33:46am

George W. Bush - his presidency is still paying the Dems dividends. What an investment. Well, the GOP has only its own stupidity to blame.

526 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:33:49am

re: #470 Spartacus50

How else do you explain it? There is no logic to a "photo op" and where was the cameraman in a single seat F-16, flying in AF1s 6 'o clock?

F-16's also come in a 2 seat version.

527 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:34:02am

I'm out of here for now. I'll leave saving the country up to Spartacus50 for a few hours. Boy, are we in trouble.

I'm telling you, if this is going to continue, nuts like Spartacus50 coming out of the conservative wood work, I'm going to hide until it's all over, and then maybe some of us will be left to pick up the pieces.

528 bosforus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:34:09am

Gee, thanks for making me worry about my wife currently in Manhattan, Obama. I really appreciate that.

529 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:34:16am

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

Yes, since he has more than one AF-1. This was a fucking photo shoot, arranged by LOW LEVEL grunts, passing the project on to other LOW LEVEL grunts, communications among all the LOW LEVEL grunts was shitty and people got scared.

End of story.

Well low level grunts might be understating it. Maybe Junior or Senior Officers might be more appropriate. But your point is well taken.

530 turn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:34:30am

re: #511 Walter L. Newton

Yes, in his first comment up thread.

People like that come here to see if they can get anybody to bite on a made up crazy right wing rant so they can to back to their lefty blogs and point out examples of right wing craziness. turn thinks they're called trolls Walter/

531 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:35:05am

re: #518 Spartacus50

Dude- get a grip. It was stupid and thoughtless, not sinister.

532 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:35:08am

re: #517 Dianna

More laundry.

Why is it that my days off end up busier than my work days?

I feel the same way about Sundays.

533 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:35:08am

re: #475 Rexatosis

Somebody at the WH knew about this, there is no way the White House is not aware of the location of the planes making up the "Air Force 1/2 Fleet." Decisions and actions (and inaction) have consequences. It would be nice if the Obama White House could come to grips with this basic fundamental truth.

Re Sen. Specter's abandonment of the GOP, there has to be a serious cookie for him to switch parties this late in his career (like maybe a clear path to the Democratic nomination or promise of an ambassadorship if he loses?). This is essentially the problem with the political class, they have no loyalty nor honor.

The USSS would most definitely know. They have to have update info in case POTUS would need to be evac'ed.

The 89th SAM Air Wing mostly likely provides the WH with a routinely updated status and schedule of all SAM assets.

The New York Hop was likely a combined training, area familiarization and photo op. It would have been on the schedule, however I doubt the WH individually approves all SAM missions.

I do think any photo op request would have originated in the WH Press Office, so the one I'd be looking at is Robert (I see nothing, I know nothing) Gibbs.

534 sattv4u2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:35:26am

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

arranged by LOW LEVEL grunts

There is NO way that at the least the White House Chief of Staff doesn't know that one of the 2 planes designated as AF 1 would NOT be in Washington DC while the Pres is

The deatils may have fallen on low level grunts, but it would HAVE to be okayed by the preidents office

535 Land Shark  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:35:54am

re: #379 Guanxi88

While I agree that far too many Conservatives are going off the deep end lately, Obama's administration IS as bad as we think it is. Hell, it's already worst than I thought it would be!

I don't agree at all with anyone who says the flights over New York were to show off power, though. It was just typical Obama Administration incompetence and stupidity.

536 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:36:07am

re: #527 Walter L. Newton

I'm out of here for now. I'll leave saving the country up to Spartacus50 for a few hours. Boy, are we in trouble.

I'm telling you, if this is going to continue, nuts like Spartacus50 coming out of the conservative wood work, I'm going to hide until it's all over, and then maybe some of us will be left to pick up the pieces.

Yes--he's one of folks who needs to be driven from the bridge of the SS Conservatism back down to the orlop deck at sword-point.

537 turn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:36:40am

re: #485 alegrias

* * * *
No, that would be taken as confirmation of "Illegal Okkupayshun" which happened when Pres. Obama was only 40 years old.

haha, he sure got a lot of miliage out of that "it happened when I was X years old line" didn't he?

538 quiet man  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:37:10am

I question the timing

539 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:37:26am

re: #501 Dr. Shalit

Hi Dr Shalit! Thanks for the post. Yep, couldn't agree more that it's the design that makes or breaks. Also think you're right on that UAW probably won't hold onto shares if the company becomes profitable - for the very reasons you cite. I'm just concerned that union relations with management have historically been confrontational - often by necessity. IOW, I wonder if union management is in a position to make decisions that are, or appear to be, in conflict with the best interests of their members. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

540 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #518 Spartacus50

Where are my taxpayer-funded photos? I dare the Government to produce a single photo that was taken during this flight. Why isn't the Press asking for them too?

Fuck off. Hold old are you, 15, you sound like it. And if anyone thinks I'm being cruel, well, I am. Go up thread and listen to this jerk.

I've tried to get him to discuss this using a few critical thinking skills, and yet he refuses and reverts back to mind boggling stupidity in every comment.

You win Spartacus50, you beat Avanti in the stupid race today. Here's your prize... (farts).

Yea, I'm being crude. Sometimes that's they way you need to treat someone who just learned to walk upright a few minutes ago and is still thrilled by shiny objects.

541 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #496 JustMyView

The Specter situation is reminiscent of what happened in Virginia in 2008. The Republican party chose a fairly unpopular and very conservative candidate (Jim Gilmore) over a more moderate candidate (Tom Davis) and got stomped by Mark Warner, a moderate Dem, in the contest over an open Senate seat.

If, as expected, Toomey is chosen as the Republican candidate in PA in 2010, he'll be running against the moderate (and well-known) Specter in a Dem-leaning state.

* * * *
JSM you disingenous JSM you.

Mark Warner was a former Governor of Virginia--an executive position with real responsibilities--not just another pretty moderate face. He is a pro-gun Democrat and supposedly fiscal conservative.

Tom Davis was only a representative of Northern Virginia in congress, not a former statewide Governor.

542 sattv4u2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:37:44am

re: #538 quiet man

I question the timing

I question your question!
//

543 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:37:50am

re: #518 Spartacus50

Where are my taxpayer-funded photos? I dare the Government to produce a single photo that was taken during this flight. Why isn't the Press asking for them too?


Oh for Christ sake...Military photos are available on line by the hundreds of Thousands...This is becoming a Bullshit argument..
All NY needed was a notice in the times and post..end of story

544 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:38:05am

re: #368 calcajun

Gee--it is the '70's --only this time we're living in East Germany. The UAW will end up building American versions of the Trabant.

The Chevette came pretty close.

545 kansas  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:38:16am

Everybody remember the picture of Bush looking out AF 1 at the Katrina damage. The howling from that one was unbe- fucking-lievable

546 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:38:20am

re: #540 Walter L. Newton

You know, you're only encouraging him.

547 bosforus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:38:45am

re: #542 sattv4u2

I question your question!
//

I'm your time, questioned.

548 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:38:50am

Tax and spend "republicans" are more than welcome to leave the party, imo.

549 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:38:53am

re: #544 Son of the Black Dog

Yes, but that one worked.

550 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:39:11am

re: #542 sattv4u2

I question your question!
//

Question the Question!

551 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:39:25am

re: #548 Sharmuta

Opps- too many tabs open. Sorry

552 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:39:49am

re: #550 jcm

Question the Question!

I question if you have the authority to question the question.

553 KansasMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:39:58am

re: #540 Walter L. Newton


Here's your prize... (farts).

Made me laugh!

554 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:40:35am

re: #513 buzzsawmonkey

If you think that Americans would react in any way but extraordinarily badly to a serious epidemic, you're not thinking.

They're not going to say, "Oh, right. The government let this whole thing spiral madly out of control, when even Europe was screening travelers. Let's give the government more power!"

555 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:40:44am

re: #548 Sharmuta

Tax and spend "republicans" are more than welcome to leave the party, imo.

No they are not allowed to leave.

We kick their asses to the curb and walk over them, looking for real conservatives.

556 ConservatismNow!  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:41:01am

re: #552 Sharmuta

I question if you have the authority to question the question.

I question, therefore I am.

557 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:42:07am

re: #556 ConservatismNow!

I question, therefore I am.

Now that gets a ear ripping upding!

558 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:43:22am

re: #531 Sharmuta

Dude- get a grip. It was stupid and thoughtless, not sinister.

I don't need to get a grip. What does it matter anyway? Either way, we're all fucked. Obama with super-majorities in both Houses. He is the most powerful President in American history by this fact alone.

559 Catttt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:43:24am

Someone needs to post this sign at the WH:
Clueless is no excuse

560 kay1212  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:43:52am

re: #38 alegrias

OT

Specter says he's a model GOP member who can win elections. Blames Republicans for cannibalizing themselves.

Handing the Democrats a majority.

I'd say he's a politician for life willing to do whatever it takes, to stay in power. And the Dems have promised him rewards for switching, like when they wooed Mr. Jeffords to switch in 2001, and flip majorities to favor the Dems and away from Pres. Bush's GOP majority.

I see the Specter defection as total validation for what Charles has been trying to warn and speak about for many months. { I've skipped down most of the posts so I apologize if all of this has already been discussed}. The Republican party is so far right they are alienating the majority of the electorate. The Creationist/ID bills they keep trying to sponsor are not only a throwback for science education but they violate the separation of church and state. The craziness exhibited by Glenn Beck and others is only entertaining to those who have lost all sense of balance. One of the major planks of the Republican party was spending restraint and we lost all sight of that over the last eight years. The Democrats are much worse on the spending issues but we lost the right to say we were fiscally responsible. Obama is completely out to lunch on taxes and social welfare and pork but there was no way to know if the entire banking system was going to have a run on it and he wisely continued Bush's policies to re-inflate the system. I just hope they know when to pull that back. While I appreciate the Tea Party ideals, I think that began with Rick Santelli on CNBC when he mentioned protesting all the spending but he didn't like the banks being bailed out either and was particularly incensed that day about the mortgage forbearance being given to all those people who bought too much house and have too many credit cards.

Charles has been saying that the middle ground needs to be recaptured by someone and that the Republicans were hurting themselves by traveling too far right. Zombie was actually trying to define the name for a party that would encompass what most of us think. It's been clear that the Republicans are setting themselves up for disaster and defections are only a symptom of the problem.

561 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:44:37am
562 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:44:47am

re: #539 subsailor68

Hi Dr Shalit! Thanks for the post. Yep, couldn't agree more that it's the design that makes or breaks. Also think you're right on that UAW probably won't hold onto shares if the company becomes profitable - for the very reasons you cite. I'm just concerned that union relations with management have historically been confrontational - often by necessity. IOW, I wonder if union management is in a position to make decisions that are, or appear to be, in conflict with the best interests of their members. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

subsailor68 -

See we shall. One of the MOST interesting stories is the one related by Iacocca - Honda wanted to produce engines, not cars at first. Rights to the engines were offered to Ford. HF II himself ruled it out - something about "No Jap Engines Under the Hood of Our Cars." Oh, what might have been.

-S-

563 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:45:21am

489 wrenchwench

Old habits are hard to break I guess. dB^)

Hey - a typo led to the amazing discovery that hitting ctrl-b inserts the em tag.. And ctrl-q gives the blockquote tag.

Amazing.

521 Kreuzueber Halbmond
4/28/09 10:32:37 am reply quote 0downupfavoritereport

re: #337 Thom

275 Kreuzueber Halbmond

It was a stunt, and some idiot in the chain of command thought it was a good idea. Do I hold the pilot accountable? No. Too many people in government with too much taxpayer money to spend? Yes.

I understand now.

The photo op excuse makes sense in a wierd, bureacratic sort of way. In the real world, that plane and its clone are the most famous planes in the world. The History Channel and Nat Geo have documentaries on them, etc.

How much more publicity do they need?

Unless ... heaven help me ... I feel a conspiracy theory coming on ... unless Dear Leader wanted that particular setting so he could use it in a campaign ad - looking thoughtful and solemn as "he" soars low and slow over Ground Zero...

564 JustMyView  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:45:47am

re: #541 alegrias

* * * *
JSM you disingenous JSM you.

Mark Warner was a former Governor of Virginia--an executive position with real responsibilities--not just another pretty moderate face. He is a pro-gun Democrat and supposedly fiscal conservative.

Tom Davis was only a representative of Northern Virginia in congress, not a former statewide Governor.

True, but it's hard to believe Davis would have gotten clobbered worse than Gilmore did. The race was never remotely close, and Davis is a sharp guy. I think he could have appealed to a lot of NoVa Dems.

565 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:45:53am

re: #552 Sharmuta

I question if you have the authority to question the question.

?

566 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:45:59am

re: #550 jcm

Question the Question!

Why?

567 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:46:07am

re: #556 ConservatismNow!

I question, therefore I am.

There's no such thing as a stupid question. But, there are lots of inquisitive idiots.

568 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:46:30am

re: #558 Spartacus50

I don't need to get a grip. What does it matter anyway? Either way, we're all fucked. Obama with super-majorities in both Houses. He is the most powerful President in American history by this fact alone.

You are clearly thoroughly ignorant of American history.

569 SecondComing  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:46:30am

"But the other question that needs answering is: at a time of great financial crisis, combined with the largest federal budget in history, why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?"

Photoshop sure is cheaper.

570 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:46:53am

re: #540 Walter L. Newton

Fuck off. Hold old are you, 15, you sound like it. And if anyone thinks I'm being cruel, well, I am. Go up thread and listen to this jerk.

I've tried to get him to discuss this using a few critical thinking skills, and yet he refuses and reverts back to mind boggling stupidity in every comment.

You win Spartacus50, you beat Avanti in the stupid race today. Here's your prize... (farts).

Yea, I'm being crude. Sometimes that's they way you need to treat someone who just learned to walk upright a few minutes ago and is still thrilled by shiny objects.

Was it not a legitimate question? Where were the cameras during this photo op? Why haven't there been photos released? We can declassify terrorist interrogations but we can't get pretty pics of AF1 buzzing NYC?

571 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:46:56am

re: #562 Dr. Shalit

subsailor68 -

See we shall. One of the MOST interesting stories is the one related by Iacocca - Honda wanted to produce engines, not cars at first. Rights to the engines were offered to Ford. HF II himself ruled it out - something about "No Jap Engines Under the Hood of Our Cars." Oh, what might have been.

-S-

Thanks! I never knew that about Honda. Very interesting indeed!

572 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:47:48am

re: #561 buzzsawmonkey

If we are that stupid, then we will deserve our fate.

I don't think we are, but time will tell.

573 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:47:59am

560 kay1212

I see the Specter defection as total validation for what Charles has been trying to warn and speak about for many months. The Republican party is so far right they are alienating the majority of the electorate.

No, not at all. Specter's move is political calculation pure and simple - it his best bet to win re-election next year.

574 moonflower  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:49:18am

re: #514 sattv4u2

Rush just had an ex SS agent call about this. The two 747's always travel together when being used by the pres. and all contingencies are planned for in detail. The president always knows where his planes are and what the plans are if they are not both available. There is no possible way this could have happened without Obama not knowing and approving. Period.

575 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:49:28am

re: #558 Spartacus50

I think I speak for all of us when I say, "Huh?" No, he is not. Get in the Way- Back Machine and go look at 1992-1994. The Dems ran the table then only to lose it in 1994.

576 SecondComing  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:49:31am

re: #560 kay1212

I see the Specter defection as total validation for what Charles has been trying to warn and speak about for many months. { I've skipped down most of the posts so I apologize if all of this has already been discussed}. The Republican party is so far right they are alienating the majority of the electorate. The Creationist/ID bills they keep trying to sponsor are not only a throwback for science education but they violate the separation of church and state. The craziness exhibited by Glenn Beck and others is only entertaining to those who have lost all sense of balance. One of the major planks of the Republican party was spending restraint and we lost all sight of that over the last eight years. The Democrats are much worse on the spending issues but we lost the right to say we were fiscally responsible. Obama is completely out to lunch on taxes and social welfare and pork but there was no way to know if the entire banking system was going to have a run on it and he wisely continued Bush's policies to re-inflate the system. I just hope they know when to pull that back. While I appreciate the Tea Party ideals, I think that began with Rick Santelli on CNBC when he mentioned protesting all the spending but he didn't like the banks being bailed out either and was particularly incensed that day about the mortgage forbearance being given to all those people who bought too much house and have too many credit cards.

Charles has been saying that the middle ground needs to be recaptured by someone and that the Republicans were hurting themselves by traveling too far right. Zombie was actually trying to define the name for a party that would encompass what most of us think. It's been clear that the Republicans are setting themselves up for disaster and defections are only a symptom of the problem.

I think it's just Specter trying to hold onto power. He knows he wouldn't be elected with his vote on she stimulus bill.

577 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:49:36am
578 opnion  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:49:45am

re: #519 Last Mohican

Five million bucks for that completely unnecessary Greek temple extravaganza. Utterly and completely unnecessary -- the Democratic party had already rented a perfectly good hall for the convention.

And meanwhile the MSM was writing front-page articles about how wasteful it was for the GOP to spend a hundred thousand on the clothes that Sarah Palin wore while campaigning, even though (1) she had to wear clothes while campaigning (yes she did, get your mind out of the gutter), and (2) I believe the clothes were donated to charity when she was done with them.

The Sarah Palin wardrobe "scandal" was contived & mean spirited.
Obama doing epic homage to himself in Berlin & Denver was just fine with the MSM.
I don't ever remember a President being more in your face. He is on TV again tonight.

579 Cygnus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:51:36am

re: #544 Son of the Black Dog

The Chevette came pretty close.

I had one of those. Burnt-orange color. What a POS.

580 Noam Chumpski  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:51:51am

It's ironic that a freelance Art Director like myself (or any that I know) would have done it pretty much for free + expenses just for the awesome opportunity and experience. The whole thing (including washing it and stuff like that) may have cost $3-4 grand for a 3 day shoot. Less than the cost of starting that thing up for a flight.

Then I could have simply P'Shopped it into any environment/situation they would have liked.

Some guys I know did it like that for the UPS planes a while back.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with these people?

581 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:52:05am

re: #470 Spartacus50

How else do you explain it? There is no logic to a "photo op" and where was the cameraman in a single seat F-16, flying in AF1s 6 'o clock? There is clearly another reason for this circus stunt flyby that nobody thus far has dared question with even a follow-up question.
You mean to tell me that entire departments of the federal government were notified in advance and nobody bothered leaking the info?


"This is the first time in history that fire has melted steel!"

582 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:52:42am

re: #574 moonflower

The two 747's always travel together when being used by the pres.

They weren't.

The president always knows where his planes are and what the plans are if they are not both available.

T

And being used for PR purposes means not available.

here is no possible way this could have happened without Obama not knowing and approving. Period.

Yes. There is. Being used for photo ops--w/o knowing where or how is possible.

BTW--someone that ID's himself as a former SS man on Rush is not really credible.

583 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #574 moonflower

Rush just had an ex SS agent call about this. The two 747's always travel together when being used by the pres. and all contingencies are planned for in detail. The president always knows where his planes are and what the plans are if they are not both available. There is no possible way this could have happened without Obama not knowing and approving. Period.


oh fuck please..Obama wasn't using AF1..It was a picture op by the Air Force.
There is plenty of shit you can dump at Obama's feet..A military picture Op isn't one of them..
No wonder people are running from the GOP like a house on fire..

584 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:53:42am

re: #575 calcajun

I think I speak for all of us when I say, "Huh?" No, he is not. Get in the Way- Back Machine and go look at 1992-1994. The Dems ran the table then only to lose it in 1994.

Not with the current-size majorities, especially in the Senate

585 Noam Chumpski  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:54:33am

re: #580 Noam Chumpski

It's ironic that a freelance Art Director like myself (or any that I know) would have done it pretty much for free + expenses just for the awesome opportunity and experience. The whole thing (including washing it and stuff like that) may have cost $3-4 grand for a 3 day shoot. Less than the cost of starting that thing up for a flight.

Then I could have simply P'Shopped it into any environment/situation they would have liked.

Some guys I know did it like that for the UPS planes a while back.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with these people?

I need to clarify that what I'm saying is that the plane could have been photographed on the ground from all angles instead of flying it around.

586 Cygnus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:54:52am

re: #567 calcajun

There's no such thing as a stupid question. But, there are lots of inquisitive idiots.

There is such a thing as a stupid answer. The one usually given by Gibbs, for example.

587 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:55:12am

re: #563 Thom

There's something profane about a government which would blatantly waste the taxpayers' dollar and at the same time cause such a panic in the very taxpayers who are supporting the waste. It reeks.

588 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:55:55am

re: #586 Cygnus

Point taken.

589 kay1212  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:55:56am

re: #573 Thom

560 kay1212

No, not at all. Specter's move is political calculation pure and simple - it his best bet to win re-election next year.

I totally agree with you. Now, why is it that switching parties would allow him to easily win? Is it possible the Republican party is beginning to be associated with craziness? Just askin'.

590 JustMyView  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:56:27am

re: #573 Thom

560 kay1212

No, not at all. Specter's move is political calculation pure and simple - it his best bet to win re-election next year.

That's right. It's his best bet because a moderate can't win the Republican primary. But the kind of candidates Republicans seem to be choosing in primaries can't win the general. So, to say that Specter left because he wanted to win is an indictment of the Republican party's willingness to support candidates that will appeal across party lines, which is essential since Republicans are a shrinking minority of the electorate.

591 Idle Drifter  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:56:33am

re: #558 Spartacus50

I don't need to get a grip. What does it matter anyway? Either way, we're all fucked. Obama with super-majorities in both Houses. He is the most powerful President in American history by this fact alone.

re: #570 Spartacus50

Was it not a legitimate question? Where were the cameras during this photo op? Why haven't there been photos released? We can declassify terrorist interrogations but we can't get pretty pics of AF1 buzzing NYC?

Are you finished? They probably won't release the pictures yet because of the communications snafu that started the problem. The chase plane had the camera(s). Google Air Force One and you'll find all sorts of nice pictures that gives the chase plane's perspective, that and a lot of Nike shoes.

592 MarineMomSue  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:56:41am

Specter's spectacle knocks the fly over spectacle and the swine flu spectacle off the front page... timing is everything

593 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:56:55am

re: #570 Spartacus50

F-16's have 2 seats.

594 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:57:41am

re: #593 Kenneth

Not all, but one of the variants does.

595 KansasMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:58:23am

Oh for pete's sake.
Really good aircraft photography is done from a modified aircraft so that there's no glass between the camera and the subject. Which means the photo plane is too darned slow to chase a 747 and instead has to be in the area waiting for it to fly past. The fighter jet may have but didn't necessarily contain the photographer (its routine for VC-25 to have a fighter escort). The photo plane may not have been visible to the New Yorkers who were buzzed.

596 Noam Chumpski  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:58:33am

re: #583 HoosierHoops

oh fuck please..Obama wasn't using AF1..It was a picture op by the Air Force.
There is plenty of shit you can dump at Obama's feet..A military picture Op isn't one of them..
No wonder people are running from the GOP like a house on fire..

I don't think Obama was the "idea man" behind this, but the AP article from this morning is clear that this had White House approval first and it infers that it was their idea not the AF's. His staff is incompetent.

AP: "As such, the Obama administration had to scramble quickly and apologize, saying that they just wanted to update photos of Air Force One near the Statue of Liberty."

597 opnion  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:00:06am

re: #573 Thom

560 kay1212


No, not at all. Specter's move is political calculation pure and simple - it his best bet to win re-election next year.

Specter was a Democrat , but flipped to the Republicans just to get slated for office.
This move looks like a cynical move to me to be with the winners.
It is galling when you remember him sobbing to his Republican collegues that he would be a dependable Republican , if the just voted him chair of the Judiciary Committee.

598 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:02:14am

re: #594 calcajun

Yes, and the F-16 s that were following AF-1 had two seats. One for the pilot, the 2nd for the photographer.

599 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:02:31am

589 kay1212

His win won't be easy, but he was probably going to lose the Republican primary - hence his switch to the dems.

587 Kreuzueber Halbmond

I agree totally. The people who set this up are world-class shitsacks.

600 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:03:24am

re: #582 calcajun

Yes. There is. Being used for photo ops--w/o knowing where or how is possible.

BTW--someone that ID's himself as a former SS man on Rush is not really credible.

POTUS has staff to know the details. I hope the POTUS isn't involved in micro managing the location of SAM 28 & 29000.

Carter was a micro manager and look at what that got us.

The White House most definitely knows the status, schedule and location of every SAM aircraft.

601 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:03:47am

re: #591 Idle Drifter

Are you finished? They probably won't release the pictures yet because of the communications snafu that started the problem. The chase plane had the camera(s). Google Air Force One and you'll find all sorts of nice pictures that gives the chase plane's perspective, that and a lot of Nike shoes.

Communications snafu? Why is it so difficult to upload a memory stick to a hard drive? Where are the pictures? Why am I the only one anywhere asking to see them?

602 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:04:31am

re: #598 Kenneth

Yes, and the F-16 s that were following AF-1 had two seats. One for the pilot, the 2nd for the photographer.

How do you know this?

603 MarineMomSue  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:05:00am

re: #583 HoosierHoops

It was a picture op by the Air Force.
There is plenty of shit you can dump at Obama's feet..A military picture Op isn't one of them...

I usually tend to agree with you, Hoops, but not this time.

The military doesn't dictate to the administration, it's the other way around.

604 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:05:03am

re: #544 Son of the Black Dog

The Chevette came pretty close.

"Son" -

The Chevette ("T-Body") was an Opel design to begin with, with a fair amount of parts made by GM do Brasil, assembled in the US.
Apart from being of German Origin - like the Trabant (a/k/a "Trabbi" for all of you DDR nostalgia fans.) it ran poorly - and FOREVER.
Next time out, GM farmed the "R-Body" replacement to ISUZU for production. The resulting Chevrolet Rectum Spectrum was nothing to write home about either.


-S-

605 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:05:19am

597 opnion

It is galling when you remember him sobbing to his Republican collegues that he would be a dependable Republican , if the just voted him chair of the Judiciary Committee.

I'll be a good boy, just give me poooooowerrrrrr....

And he betrayed them. What a man of principle.

606 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:07:10am

re: #601 Spartacus50

Communications snafu? Why is it so difficult to upload a memory stick to a hard drive? Where are the pictures? Why am I the only one anywhere asking to see them?

This may come as a terrible, terrible blow to your ego, but the photographers don't work for you. They're doing their jobs, which unfortunately, does not include answering to your increasingly hysterical screeching.

607 kay1212  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:07:32am

His win won't be easy, but he was probably going to lose the Republican primary - hence his switch to the dems.

587 Kreuzueber Halbmond

I agree totally. The people who set this up are world-class shitsacks.

Well, I would certainly agree with that statement.

608 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:08:52am

Back on 9/11, planes were flown low over Manhattan without warning. New Yorkers were being terrorized by a man who hated America, and whose hate was stoked by an anti-American education and his habit of hanging around with dictators, of whom he frequently approved.

So, basically, the only difference between then and now is the fact that no planes went into buildings.

609 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:08:57am

re: #602 Spartacus50

How do you know this?

I know all sort of things. Including the color of socks you're wearing today. So if you're not careful I'll call the FBI and have them investigate you.

///

610 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:09:33am

re: #602 Spartacus50

SOP--Standard operation procedure.

611 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:11:34am

back down into salt mines--later in the pm y'all.

612 Idle Drifter  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:12:07am

re: #601 Spartacus50

Communications snafus are quite common throughout all levels of government not some great conspiracy. You are demanding for the photos at the wrong site. Are you finished?

613 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:13:02am

re: #608 gmsc

Kind of a major difference.

614 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:13:19am

HAs the idiot who planned this photo-op been fired yet?

Because he should be. This was a class-a screw-up. Somebody's head should roll. Metaphorically, of course.

615 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:14:53am

re: #602 Spartacus50

How do you know this?

Kinda around for the stick to take pics too.

616 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:15:04am
617 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:16:30am

re: #449 Nevergiveup

He does it every year. Nothing here. Move on.

Did he do it during the Bush Administration? Not being sarcastic.....just incredulous if he did.

618 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:16:51am

re: #606 Kenneth

This may come as a terrible, terrible blow to your ego, but the photographers don't work for you. They're doing their jobs, which unfortunately, does not include answering to your increasingly hysterical screeching.

Are you able to confirm that this was an F-16B or F-16D (two-seater)? Haven't seen it reported anywhere and that would be the first I heard of it. What is their job duties exactly? If they are military combat photogs (as the WH claims) they most certainly work for me and the rest of the American people.

619 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:18:43am

re: #614 Kenneth

HAs the idiot who planned this photo-op been fired yet?

Because he should be. This was a class-a screw-up. Somebody's head should roll. Metaphorically, of course.

Robert Gibbs.

A photo for release would have originated from WH Press Office.
A flunky who doesn't like the current official pic doesn't have the weight to order a SAM flight.

The Press Sec. might have the weight, especially if CoS Rahm signed off.

It would go that high at least.

Rahm and Gibs ain't gonna' lose their jobs.

620 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:21:14am

re: #534 sattv4u2

arranged by LOW LEVEL grunts

There is NO way that at the least the White House Chief of Staff doesn't know that one of the 2 planes designated as AF 1 would NOT be in Washington DC while the Pres is

The deatils may have fallen on low level grunts, but it would HAVE to be okayed by the preidents office

The level of detail that it was approved at was probably. "Say we need to get a new photo of Air Force One. Should we approve this? How about in front of the Statue of Liberty. Sounds good. Ok."

I seriously doubt anyone at the Level of Chief of Staff took any time to look into the ramifications of the flyover of Manhattan. Having said that the White House staff should not be a bunch of patronage hires with no experience in protocal, but that looks like what it is currently.

621 HippieforLife  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:22:55am

I saw the O's stumble with his teleprompter yesterday and I thought it was a SNL skit! If he was elected to be the class clown, then he is doing a great job.

622 sandspur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:23:43am

re: #590 JustMyView

That's right. It's his best bet because a moderate can't win the Republican primary. But the kind of candidates Republicans seem to be choosing in primaries can't win the general. So, to say that Specter left because he wanted to win is an indictment of the Republican party's willingness to support candidates that will appeal across party lines, which is essential since Republicans are a shrinking minority of the electorate.

For the record NRSC head John Cornyn did support Specter for re-election. He has been left twisting in the wind by Specter.
Pat Toomey, a fiscal conservative former member of the House is currently leading Specter in polling for the PA primary by 20+ points.
Specter thinks that because 200k Rs reregistered as Ds for the 2008 elections, he has a better chance running as a D. Self preservation, plain and simple. But he has forgotten that the reason for the R to D shift was due in large part to Operation Chaos. I expect quite a few will switch back when the time is right. Buh, bye RINO

623 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:25:04am
why is money being wasted on unnecessary extravagances like this?

It is not extravagant. It is for this White House. No amount is extravagant.

624 sandspur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:25:54am

re: #601 Spartacus50

Communications snafu? Why is it so difficult to upload a memory stick to a hard drive? Where are the pictures? Why am I the only one anywhere asking to see them?

You can file a FOIA request for them.

625 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:31:06am

re: #479 sattv4u2

headlines

INSENSITIVE
DUMB STUNT
SCARING CHILDREN


DRY RUN.

626 Sunlight  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:41:35am

I've met Louis Caldera before. My guess: Peter Principle... even being in charge of a university was beyond him (partly because of the slimy politics involved)...

627 Sunlight  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:44:53am

I shouldn't be, but I am, amazed that the small circle of people involved in corrupt NM politics is showing up in D.C. Yuck.

628 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:46:16am

re: #613 Dianna

Kind of a major difference.

I forgot – the LNDT people know my facetiousness better than the day crowd. I didn't take that into account. I should've added the sarc slashies.

Please don't misunderstand my post above. It was not literal. I apologize to those of you whose feelings I hurt.

629 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:48:50am

re: #613 Dianna

Kind of a major difference.

I apologize. The LDNT people know my facetious posts better than the day people.

I should've added the sarc slashies, but failed to do so.

I apologize to anyone whose feelings were hurt by that post. Please forgive me.

630 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:49:54am

re: #617 LGoPs

Did he do it during the Bush Administration? Not being sarcastic.....just incredulous if he did.

No, he only introduces the bill when a Democrat is in office.

631 snowcrash  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:03:07pm

re: #629 gmsc

First down dinged and then went back and reversed it. Thx for clarification.

632 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:04:22pm

re: #609 Kenneth

I know all sort of things. Including the color of socks you're wearing today. So if you're not careful I'll call the FBI and have them investigate you.

///

Very weak attempt at condescension. The truth is Kenneth, is that I'm smarter than you. Its a fact!

633 hurricane567  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:16:26pm

There's a preacher, James Manning, he came out on fire against BHO when the campaign started. He pulls no punches, takes no baloney, and when i saw the video of people running and diving for cover, the 1st thing i thought of was something Rev Manning said;"Affirmative Action means what is expected of the *white man* is not expected of *you*!" No, this isn't *exactly* a racial thing, and if you go look at Rev Manning's web site, you'll know why.

634 deacon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:55pm

I am curious as to if there was passengers on board.

635 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:41pm

re: #632 Spartacus50

Very weak attempt at condescension. The truth is Kenneth, is that I'm smarter than you. Its a fact!

Thanks for clearing that up for me. It wasn't condescension, it was sarcasm.

Now, do you want me to point out the three grammar errors in your three little sentences?

636 wonk-a-donk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:04:09pm

The One announced an internal investigation into where the buck stops? Answer, it never stops as evidenced by the federal printing presses operating at overtime full steam ahead.

637 dragonladyalso  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:41:03pm

So, what "celebrity" was given a joy ride on the taxpayers dime (as if they ever use their own)? Sheik who? Or maybe, George Soros?

638 bullskin  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:07pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

So, in your opinion, this fly over was the Air Force's "demonstration of power to the American people?"

No one had a straight story because this was a LOW LEVEL TASK, that didn't pop up on EVERYONE'S do do list that morning.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Because it's more fun to believe that the president arranged this fly over to scare the American people and let the American people know that he RULES.

Such low level task which could scare the whole NYC and even his mayor hadn't a clue about that? and even as I read, nor the news hadn't?.

The first I thought when I saw the footage was: This is an insult. The second, no airman ever noticed in the metar or tafor the haze for that task?. Not that in the checklist before cranking up four engines burning 20000-30000 $ an hour?
I had photographers from the National Geographic in my cockpit and would had never took off to make aerial shots with that haze.

I have not read any convincing explanation yet, but deliberate or not its again an insult.

639 Throbert McGee  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:25:51pm

From the many, many comments asking "why couldn't they just PhotoShop the plane onto the NYC skyline," it seems to me that a lot of people have taken Mayor Bloomberg's use of "photo op" much too literally.

I suspect Bloomberg intended "photo op" as a purely figurative way of saying "a frivolous political stunt serving no substantial purpose." The White House approved the event not because they literally wanted to get some dramatic new photos of AF1; the purpose was to reward a bunch of political cronies aboard the plane (whoever they were) with a joyride.

So the pertinent question is not "why did they need these photos?" but "who were the lucky passengers?"

640 Throbert McGee  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:29:25pm

re: #232 Spartacus50

This was an arrogant, direct threat and demonstration of power to the American people.

Wrong. It was a demonstration of string-pulling ability to the passengers. (And an inadvertent demonstration of ego and cluelessness to everyone else.)

641 Swobama  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:33:00pm

Joining the conspiracy theory fun, what if this was designed not to frighten the NYC population but to soften them up. An accidental overflight or two and then, when the populace no longer runs for its life, bring in the suicide pilots. Hmmm.

642 Promethea  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:44:59pm

I read a theory somewhere on the net that this flyover was for film footage for George Lucas's movie about the Tuskegee Airmen. The theory was that this dramatic swoopy shot would make a good ending to the film.

643 Pacificlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:56:35pm

How many days are left in this idiot's term? If the Republicans can't beat this joker, there's no hope for the Republican party. Just think how the press would have reacted if it was Bush's administration. And I'm going to gag if I hear one more time about how great a communicator Barak is. He's not a great speaker, he reads well that's all.

644 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:59:03pm

re: #640 Throbert McGee

Wrong. It was a demonstration of string-pulling ability to the passengers. (And an inadvertent demonstration of ego and cluelessness to everyone else.)

Now this is a plausible explanation. One of the first questions I asked today, is where is the flight manifest? It would go a long way towards explaining this whole sickening display. Most of the media (including the NYT) are trying to move onto the next issue.

645 shane  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:24:32pm

Charles;

Your good at finding music videos, how about one from the Beetles?
It's fitting Uncle Albert. It could be the Obama theme song.

646 Throbert McGee  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:39:40pm

re: #77 Occasional Reader

It would probably cause less of a stir here... Washingtonians are used to seeing commercial jets flying pretty close, due to the proximity of National Airport.

I can guarantee you that a lot of the NYCers who were screaming and running in the video are perfectly accustomed to seeing commercial jets flying low over their homes and neighborhoods every few minutes -- because substantial portions of Brooklyn and Queens, including some very desirable residential neighborhoods, are situated right under the normal approach pattern for planes coming into LaGuardia.

On the other hand, for a plane to be flying that low over Manhattan is totally abnormal -- even without a fighter jet apparently chasing after it!

647 DistantThunder  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:02:00pm

But what is highly questionable to me is the threats:

FAA Memo: Feds Knew NYC Flyover Would Cause Panic
Threatened Federal Sanctions Against NYPD, Secret Service, FBI & Mayor's Office If Secret Ever Got Out

Federal officials knew that sending two fighter jets and Air Force One to buzz ground zero and Lady Liberty might set off nightmarish fears of a 9/11 replay, but they still ordered the photo-op kept secret from the public.

In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out.

Threats? Some Military PR guy at the White House was telling Federal Agencies to issue threats? Highly unlikely. Who was on that plane?

648 Billy Hank  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:12:05pm

re: #642 Promethea

Yeah, I saw the same thing and it makes intuitive sense. Don't know for sure, but, if Lucas et al were involved, some senior people had to sign off on it.

Shortly after I got my high altitude card many moons ago, I had a chance to spend a few days with Det 1 in Key West and took formation pictures of 4 F-102s from a B model. The photos of F-102s over Miami Beach wound up on the phone book cover. Approval level was wing CO and no charge to Ma Bell. Simpler times.

649 MPH  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:25:57pm

re: #2 quickjustice

It was part of the stimulus! It employed pilots, and a photographer, and all kinds of people!

you beat me to it... :)

650 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:31:06pm

It has been said by others, and it was the first thing that popped into my mind: Photoshop.

For a mere fraction of the cost of fuel for this stunt, some first class photoshopping could have been done. Just don't hire the guys who work for Iran's military or for Hezbollah—their work is sloppy.

651 Pupdawg  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:38:43pm

Obama didn't know about it, my ass!

Must be nice to take Air Force One out for a little NYC shock and awe spin without anybody knowing about it....righhhht.

Obama is an idiot and a lying one at that!

652 grahamski  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:08:08pm

Wow, this thread got ugly real quick....absolutely disgusting when a member of this site can't ask a question without getting called filthy names and cursed at.

653 path  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:19:26pm

re: #634 deacon

I am curious as to if there was passengers on board.

I came to LGF to get some info on that as I had read somewhere earlier online that the plane held Obama financial supporters. Still don't know the answer but do hope that some info will come out.

654 thatemailname  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:41:50pm

Great news - no money was wasted! The official story has been changed - it was a "training flight", and they decided to do the photo op at the same time! So they're actually saving money by killing two birds with one stone! Now Obama can add the money saved to the $100 million he ordered his cabinet members to save last week!

655 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:28pm
656 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:13:01pm

#655 Captain Joe:

Comments like that are not welcome here. If you continue, your account will be history.


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