UAW Will Own 55% of Chrysler

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The United Auto Workers union will now own the largest share of Chrysler LLC, as the auto industry meltdown begins to get seriously loony: UAW Said to Get 55% Chrysler Ownership, Board Seats.

Anyone over there ever heard of a “conflict of interest?”

April 28 (Bloomberg) — The United Auto Workers union’s retiree health-care fund will own 55 percent of Chrysler LLC in exchange for cutting in half the automaker’s $10.6 billion cash obligation to the trust, people familiar with the matter said.

Under the terms of the contract, the trust would get representation on the company’s board of directors, said two people briefed on the deal, who asked not to be named because the matter is private.

The tentative agreement was approved unanimously by UAW leaders yesterday and will be sent to union locals for ratification, one of the people said.

(Hat tip: Chris.)

Jump to bottom

752 comments
1 Attaboid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:21:15pm

Sad.

2 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:21:19pm

Quid Pro Quo

3 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:21:35pm

Why do I hear the Internationale playing?

4 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:22:03pm

Buh-bye Chrysler.

5 Dr. Sanity  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:22:07pm

Well that will drive it into the ground without a doubt.

6 Right mind left  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:22:16pm

Let me see…card check approved by board of directors?

7 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:22:36pm

I for one will NEVER buy a Chrysler car just because of that.

8 saberry0530  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:22:47pm

SO, if they have a disagreement and go on strike, do they strike against themselves?

9 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:23:24pm

Once the dog dies of hemorrhaging where will the tick attach itself then?

10 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:23:26pm

re: #8 saberry0530

SO, if they have a disagreement and go on strike, do they strike against themselves?

They haven’t thought that one thu yet?

11 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:23:34pm

This is 100% pure communism, Karl Marx-style:

The Workers Shall Own the Means of Production.

We tried to warn you, America, that Obama would lead this country down the path to communism. But no, you wouldn’t listen to us.

12 mph  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:23:39pm

Gee, what could go wrong?

13 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:23:39pm

Letting the wolves run the henhouse, how could this possibly be a bad idea…

/sigh

14 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:23:40pm

Well, good for them. I hope that 55% makes them feel all warm and fuzzy when it turns into 55% of 0.

OTOH, what is the conflict of interest. ?

15 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:23:58pm

They will change the name to Christler, in honor of The One.

16 Right mind left  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:24:01pm

Assembly line must produce the strike signs instead of the cars this week…

17 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:24:13pm

re: #3 MandyManners

Why do I hear the Internationale playing?

Youtube Video
18 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:24:19pm

Time to lower the flag to half mast.

19 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:24:21pm
20 livefreeor die  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:24:27pm

So what happens to their retirement plans when they drive the company into the ground?

21 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:24:29pm
Anyone over there ever heard of a “conflict of interest?”

Well, thinking about it… arguably, it represents an ALIGNMENT of interests.

Now If the UAW members act in ways that will undercut Chrysler’s share price, they’ll be very directly shooting themselves in the foot.

22 tlclark  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:24:58pm

If anyone doesn’t remember the disaster that was Geneva Steel once the workers became the owners, now would be a good time for a refresher course.

Oh, and Charles keep up the good fight regarding Spencer & Geller, take a second look at Beck though. He’s a loose cannon drama queen, but he’s not a far right loon.

23 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:04pm

What’s 55% of nothing?

24 Mikey_Dallas  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:04pm

Circular reference error. Now when they’re screwin the man, they’re screwing themselves. What do you think will happen? We’ll either have really cheap well made Chryslers cause they want to sell them or 60K for a Chrylser because they’ll add a bunch of new beni’s.

25 midwestgak  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:13pm

It’s the retirees, stupid

It will now be interesting to see how the union’s investment does when the Obama administration forces our auto companies to develop and produce green cars, that consumers won’t want, in response to a fictitious global warming crisis.

Update — Richard Baehr adds:

Throw in the fact that Chrysler has 46,000 active UAW workers, and 250,000 retired UAW workers, drawing very rich pensions and health benefits. In essence, these companies are being kept alive not for current workers’ benefit (and certainly not because consumers demand their cars) but for the benefit of the retirees.

26 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:22pm

same is going to happen at GM

fuck the stockholders and debt-holders
the gov’t and the unions will own those two companies


and NO ONE will buy a fucking car from them

good luck on that

what shall we call the new car ?

Barackmobile ?
0bamsmobile ?

27 tfc3rid  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:25pm

So the Union becomes owner?

Communism anyone?

28 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:37pm

But April Fools Day was 26 days ago….

29 CommonCents  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:56pm

The interests of the company belong with the collective! Power to the people!

Pass the Vodka!
/

30 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:57pm

Michellevrolet ?

31 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:25:59pm

re: #14 Thom

OTOH, what is the conflict of interest. ?

Suppose the UAW decides to go on strike against a competitor?

32 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:26:30pm

re: #31 Charles

Suppose the UAW decides to go on strike against a competitor?

Good point.

33 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:26:43pm

We keep you alive to serve this ship.re: #15 Ben Hur

They will change the name to Christler, in honor of The One.

That was GENIUS!

34 scott in east bay  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:26:48pm

Why would anyone buy a care built in a UAW plant? I bought a Nissan Frontier pickup made in a non-union Nissan plant in Tennessee. That plant has rejected the UAW three times.

It’s a matter of principle. Personally, I think it’s great that the UAW will build cars. Perhaps they can just call them UAWmobiles.

I do, however, expect anything run by UAW to go broke.

35 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:26:49pm

re: #31 Charles

Suppose the UAW decides to go on strike against a competitor?

oh shit !

36 jorline  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:27:20pm

I guess this means they keep all of their pay, benefits and the golf course.
/

37 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:27:44pm

re: #30 Adrenalyn

Michellevrolet ?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Baracktiac
Bored (Biden Ford!)
Obamasmobile
GDC (General Democrat Clusterf&ck)

38 MikeAlv77  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:27:57pm

This is wonderful cause now we can see if the UAW which always complained that management was “bad” and was hurting the worker will have no excuse..

Isn’t socialism fun…

/

39 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:27:58pm

re: #22 tlclark

… take a second look at Beck though. He’s a loose cannon drama queen, but he’s not a far right loon.

Anyone who promotes (and writes the foreword for) a book by John Bircher Cleon Skousen is so far right he’s giving himself a reacharound.

40 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:28:12pm
41 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:28:22pm

Messiah Motors
where you can buy the new Draft-Dodge Truck - as advertized by Bill Clinton

or the Pontiac Pantsuit, in honor of Hillary

42 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:28:35pm

I think P.J. O’Rourke put it best on last night’s open thread:

Majority rule is a precious, sacred thing worth dying for. But—like other precious, sacred things, such as the home and the family—it’s not only worth dying for; it can make you wish you were dead. Imagine if all of life were determined by majority rule. Every meal would be a pizza. Every pair of pants, even those in a Brooks Brothers suit, would be stonewashed denim. Celebrity diet and exercise books would be the only thing on the shelves at the library. And—since women are a majority of the population—we’d all be married to Mel Gibson.

43 MikeAlv77  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:28:54pm

re: #31 Charles

Suppose the UAW decides to go on strike against a competitor?

This sounds like a Chicago way of doing business… Now where is our President from?

44 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:02pm

Fuck the unions

45 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:06pm

What happens to the previous stockholders? Don’t “regular” people own Chrysler stock?

Under the accord reached with the UAW on April 26, a health-care trust fund for union retirees would own 55 percent of Chrysler, people familiar with the agreement said. Fiat would get an initial 20 percent stake, which may rise to 35 percent by meeting performance goals.

Where’s the rest of me?!

46 Right mind left  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:08pm

Strike for new bailouts from our Big Daddy government,

Strike for mandates these are the cars everyone must drive..

And, it is their first step into ownership of all car mfgs…

monopolies only apply to non-union companies!

Yeah, that will work.

/

47 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:21pm

Sound like… workers’ control of the means of production.

48 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:33pm

Can’t wait till contract negotiations.

49 KingKenrod  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:38pm

Another conflict: That 55% interest will now be more “interested” in generating profit to fund retiree benefits instead of getting better contracts for current employees.

50 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:51pm

re: #31 Charles

Suppose the UAW decides to go on strike against a competitor?

Exactly. Which means this is only leading in one possible direction: the UAW will get ownership of ALL American auto-makers, so there isn’t any unfairness in the competition.

Somebody crank that Internationale up to 11.

51 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:53pm

re: #42 gmsc

And—since women are a majority of the population—we’d all be married to Mel Gibson George Clooney. (Mel’s getting old.)

52 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:54pm

As a note, it will take a unanimous vote of the 46 secured creditors to accept the 2 bn in cash for their secured paper. I am not sure that will happen.

53 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:29:54pm

wonder what the duty rate on foreign cars is going up to, and when

54 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:30:41pm

re: #50 zombie

Exactly. Which means this is only leading in one possible direction: the UAW will get ownership of ALL American auto-makers, so there isn’t any unfairness in the competition.

Somebody crank that Internationale up to 11.

It’s at No. 17. Just lovely images, too.

55 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:30:48pm

and I can see foreign trade zones being outlawed
anything to keep the foreign car makers from taking share from Messiah Motors

56 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #39 Charles

Glenn Beck… giving himself a reacharound.

I do not appreciate that mental image, thanks!

57 aggieann  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:30:58pm

re: #38 MikeAlv77

This is wonderful cause now we can see if the UAW which always complained that management was “bad” and was hurting the worker will have no excuse..

Isn’t socialism fun…

/

It’s hard to fight the man when you ARE the man.

58 Querent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:31:05pm

re: #56 Kenneth

brain bleach?

59 Mr. In get Mr. Out  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:31:06pm

So, I’ve been away for a few days and haven’t posted much. Now, I have a chance to sit down to read about a plane hovering through New York, Lizards running for office, and the UAW being a majority shareholder. It’s damn easy to shut the brain off to these pesky outside interferences, but I’d be bored eating waffles at every meal.

60 jill e  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:31:20pm

An inside job….

61 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:31:44pm

re: #41 Adrenalyn

Messiah Motors
where you can buy the new Draft-Dodge Truck - as advertized by Bill Clinton

or the Pontiac Pantsuit, in honor of Hillary

The new GM Democrat, now available:

* Always takes the low road
* Calls Algore for permission first
* Usually works for the Feds, seldom works for you
* Compares itself to your old car using New Math
* Is actually an old rebuilt Pennsylvania Specter. Uses the same cranks.

62 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:31:45pm

re: #45 littleoldlady

The previous owners of Chrysler were Cerberus and Daimler. No stock was publicly held. If the GM plan goes through, the GM shares get reverse split 100:1 and the previous owners will get pennies for partial shares.

63 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:32:04pm

for HIS next trick
the Messiah will nationalize the oil companies

64 CommonCents  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:32:12pm

re: #52 Shr_Nfr

As a note, it will take a unanimous vote of the 46 secured creditors to accept the 2 bn in cash for their secured paper. I am not sure that will happen.

How many of the 46 secured creditors are on the TARP recipient list? I’m sure they’ll be no pressure from the Fed.

65 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:32:18pm

re: #5 Dr. Sanity

Well that will drive it into the ground without a doubt.

The UAW has already driven the entire American-owned auto industry into the ground. They’ve killed the goose - sorry, no more golden eggs.

66 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:32:33pm

re: #53 Adrenalyn

wonder what the duty rate on foreign cars is going up to, and when

Don’t care. If the Detroit automakers go under, I’ll just have to look at good used cars after that.

/Never even looking at a Honda POS.

67 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:32:41pm

Oh, it’s far worse than the UAW owning 55% of Chrysler. Shareholders at GM are going to be screwed as the government gets 51%; UAW get 39%, and the shareholders get 10%, even though shareholders have the same stakehold in GM as the feds do - to the tune of $27 billion.

The UAW is getting propped up; shareholders - the public get screwed, and Obama gets to call this a win-win situation.

GM, meanwhile, continues announcing that they’re killing brands - Saturn and Pontiac are toast.

Chrysler is in even worse shape, and the feds are handing the companies over to the unions as though that will solve things? It wont. The unions knew the costs of doing business all along and still pushed to maintain their benefits and that helped kill the companies.

Now, that they’re in an ownership position, you think any of this is going to change? I don’t.

If anything, it means that the government will be increasing its control over what’s left of the auto industry, and that’s not good for the long haul.

68 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:32:44pm

So, how do I go about shorting Chrysler stock? I’m looking to make a fortune!

Sure, I’ll be called the Anti-Chrysler, but it’ll be worth it.

69 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:32:49pm

re: #52 Shr_Nfr

They might declare an expedient bankruptcy…

In a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, creditors that represent more than two-thirds of the debt can approve plans without unanimous consent from the holdouts, said Don Workman, a bankruptcy lawyer at Baker & Hostetler LLP in Washington. If some of the lenders balk to try to get a better recovery, they could be forced into a less favorable deal and legal fees, he said.

70 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:33:13pm

Instead of boss, do Chrysler employees now refer to their union as Commisar?

71 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:33:19pm

re: #48 jcm

Can’t wait till contract negotiations.

What are you doing?
I’m sticking it to the man!
But … aren’t YOU the man?
I guess so.
Then aren’t you sticking it to yourself?
Yes, I suppose I am.

72 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:33:35pm

re: #45 littleoldlady

Chrysler is privately held by Cerberus Capital group -a private equity firm, after they bought the rotting carcass from Daimler-Benz.

73 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:33:55pm

re: #62 Shr_Nfr

Aha! Thanks. :-)

74 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:33:58pm

Glad I sold my GM stock last year.

75 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:34:07pm

re: #63 Adrenalyn

for HIS next trick
the Messiah will nationalize the oil companies

That crazy Congresswoman from CA tried to warn us.

76 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:34:08pm

re: #45 littleoldlady

What happens to the previous stockholders? Don’t “regular” people own Chrysler stock?

The current stockholders are going to get the shaft no matter which way this goes.

Tough break, but that’s the nature of equity investment. Company goes bust, your equity gets wiped out.

77 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:34:08pm

re: #65 Son of the Black Dog

The UAW has already driven the entire American-owned auto industry into the ground. They’ve killed the goose - sorry, no more golden eggs.

Aesop saw this one coming thousands of years ago:

One day a countryman going to the nest of his Goose found there an egg all yellow and glittering. When he took it up it was as heavy as lead and he was going to throw it away, because he thought a trick had been played upon him. But he took it home on second thoughts, and soon found to his delight that it was an egg of pure gold. Every morning the same thing occurred, and he soon became rich by selling his eggs. As he grew rich he grew greedy; and thinking to get at once all the gold the Goose could give, he killed it and opened it only to find nothing.

Greed oft o’er reaches itself.

78 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:34:20pm

re: #66 Honorary Yooper

Don’t care. If the Detroit automakers go under, I’ll just have to look at good used cars after that.

/Never even looking at a Honda POS.

ah, but they won’t go under
we won’t have a choice
duty on foreign cars will go up to 50% to “protect” American jobs

then again, duty in certain European nations is 200%
and they still buy cars
but only the wealthy buy new

79 Russkilitlover  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:34:50pm

re: #20 livefreeor die

So what happens to their retirement plans when they drive the company into the ground?

Bailout.

80 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:34:57pm

This is a complete perversion of the bankruptcy process. If I were the other creditors of the company, I’d be in federal court tomorrow suing the government for breach of fiduciary duty. The trouble is, many of those creditors are banks that the U.S. Treasury already controls. It’s sweet to be able to pull so many puppet strings at once to benefit the unions, isn’t it?

It’s also a perfect example of what I posted earlier— the Article I section 8 bankruptcy power of Congress, as enacted into the bankruptcy statute, is being used as political cover for a government takeover of a major, publicly held company at taxpayer expense, and then to cover a sweetheart deal with the labor unions.

The U.S. government is taking sides in labor-management issues as to which it traditionally had remained neutral. The labor relations laws enacted this neutrality, which Obama now has abandoned without enabling legislation. I have no doubt that Congress will ratify all of this, papering over the highhanded use of executive power.

81 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:35:11pm
82 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:35:22pm

re: #66 Honorary Yooper

Don’t care. If the Detroit automakers go under, I’ll just have to look at good used cars after that.

/Never even looking at a Honda POS.

My POS Honda was built in the US, unlike the POS Suburban the Chevy dealer tried to sell me.

83 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:35:35pm

OT
All Obama Hands on Deck in this Crisis;

Please buy our pork products, and pretty please, competitors, don’t try to take advantage of us while we’re down. (US Trade Representative)

Not a great sales pitch for pork, imagine how this will work selling substandard UAW-designed cars.

84 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:35:38pm

re: #72 lawhawk

“Rotting carcass…”

/oy!

It’s a shame. I’m still driving a 1995 Neon that cost $12,000 INCLUDING tax and tags. That car doesn’t owe me a thing.

85 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:35:54pm

re: #67 lawhawk

If anything, it means that the government will be increasing its control over what’s left of the auto industry, and that’s not good for the long haul.

I think we could well see a resurrection of the US auto industry in the medium term future, but it will consist of a) Ford, and b) one or more companies that do not yet exist (or are barely on the radar).

86 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:35:58pm

re: #81 buzzsawmonkey

So we need a Reuther-rooter to remove this stoppage?

87 CommonCents  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #80 quickjustice

This is a complete perversion of the bankruptcy process. If I were the other creditors of the company, I’d be in federal court tomorrow suing the government for breach of fiduciary duty. The trouble is, many of those creditors are banks that the U.S. Treasury already controls. It’s sweet to be able to pull so many puppet strings at once to benefit the unions, isn’t it?

It’s also a perfect example of what I posted earlier— the Article I section 8 bankruptcy power of Congress, as enacted into the bankruptcy statute, is being used as political cover for a government takeover of a major, publicly held company at taxpayer expense, and then to cover a sweetheart deal with the labor unions.

The U.S. government is taking sides in labor-management issues as to which it traditionally had remained neutral. The labor relations laws enacted this neutrality, which Obama now has abandoned without enabling legislation. I have no doubt that Congress will ratify all of this, papering over the highhanded use of executive power.

Did we ever get the text of Biden or Obama’s comments at the union meeting in Miami awhile back? The one where reporters were locked out?

88 ConservatismNow!  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:36:26pm

re: #71 OldLineTexan

What are you doing?
I’m sticking it to the man!
But … aren’t YOU the man?
I guess so.
Then aren’t you sticking it to yourself?
Yes, I suppose I am.


But he deserves to have it stuck to him! Take that, Man!

89 jill e  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:36:52pm

So if there’s ever a strike, will the UAW hire the scabs?

90 Rednek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:37:07pm

UAW Will Own 55% of Chrysler

Sounds like someone should write a book about this.

Oh.

Already been written!

91 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:37:15pm

As the government continues to run GM and Chrysler into the ground, keep reminding yourself and everyone else that this is exactly how they’ll handle health care.

92 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:37:21pm

re: #85 Occasional Reader

I think we could well see a resurrection of the US auto industry in the medium term future, but it will consist of a) Ford, and b) one or more companies that do not yet exist (or are barely on the radar).

Let’s have avanti bring back Studebaker.

93 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:37:24pm

All this makes me sick to my stomach. I hate socialism.

94 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:38:04pm

re: #79 Russkilitlover

re: #20 livefreeor die

So what happens to their retirement plans when they drive the company into the ground?

Bailout.

You beat me to it. Yep, that’s the last link in the chain.

95 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:38:06pm

re: #71 OldLineTexan

What are you doing?
I’m sticking it to the man!
But … aren’t YOU the man?
I guess so.
Then aren’t you sticking it to yourself?
Yes, I suppose I am.

* * * *
WE taxpayers are “the man” funding this Union vehicular piece of crap.

96 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:38:07pm

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough is fucking happy now!

97 Querent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:38:24pm

re: #94 Occasional Reader

You beat me to it. Yep, that’s the last link in the chain.

Lather, rinse, repeat…

98 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:38:47pm

re: #92 OldLineTexan

Let’s have avanti bring back Studebaker.

Hell, if he could get some venture capital together and make a great, modern car that kicked ass in the marketplace, he’d have my applause.

99 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:39:02pm

If the union thugs have a stake in any autu company they won’t be getting my business.

100 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:39:10pm

re: #8 saberry0530

SO, if they have a disagreement and go on strike, do they strike against themselves?

Yeah, this is a weird one. It could go either way. It might make the unions more responsible now that the have a stake in seeing the company perform well. It might also be a case that the foxes are now guarding the hen house. If I had to guess I’d go with the latter.

101 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:39:13pm

re: #70 Russkilitlover

Instead of boss, do Chrysler employees now refer to their union as Commisar?

Youtube Video

Don’t Turn Around
Uh-oh!
The Kommissar’s in Town!
Uh-oh!

102 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:39:27pm

Iowa’ Tom Vilsack, Secretary of Something or Another,
says EAT OUR PORK please.

Don’t call it Swine Flu, it’s H1N1!

The pork is safe people.

103 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:39:35pm

re: #80 quickjustice

This is a complete perversion of the bankruptcy process. If I were the other creditors of the company, I’d be in federal court tomorrow suing the government for breach of fiduciary duty. The trouble is, many of those creditors are banks that the U.S. Treasury already controls. It’s sweet to be able to pull so many puppet strings at once to benefit the unions, isn’t it?

It’s also a perfect example of what I posted earlier— the Article I section 8 bankruptcy power of Congress, as enacted into the bankruptcy statute, is being used as political cover for a government takeover of a major, publicly held company at taxpayer expense, and then to cover a sweetheart deal with the labor unions.

The U.S. government is taking sides in labor-management issues as to which it traditionally had remained neutral. The labor relations laws enacted this neutrality, which Obama now has abandoned without enabling legislation. I have no doubt that Congress will ratify all of this, papering over the highhanded use of executive power.

You’ve just outlined the perfectly legal route to the complete socialism-ization of the American economy.

They’ll start with the banks and the auto industry, being taken over by “the people” and the unions. And then any industry that gets in trouble, through the use of bankruptcy, bailouts and executive orders, those companies will fall prey to the predatory socialist government.

Little by little (or lots by lots, at this pace), private corporations will become public entities and/or worker-controlled entities in this country.

And there’s another name for that: Socialism.

104 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:39:53pm

re: #69 littleoldlady

Hi {lol}. I have been missing from the LNDT for the last week or so and will be for another week or so. Can you email fruitcup? :)

Hpoe you are well and send the LNDT my hello’s

105 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:39:56pm

re: #98 Occasional Reader

Hell, if he could get some venture capital together and make a great, modern car that kicked ass in the marketplace, he’d have my applause.

He’s going to start back at the beginning … wheelbarrows.

106 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:40:17pm
107 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:40:22pm

re: #96 MandyManners

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough is fucking happy now!

No bold?

108 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:40:30pm

re: #96 MandyManners

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough is fucking happy now!

Excellently observed. Mandy you are my woman.

109 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:40:38pm

re: #67 lawhawk

Now, that they’re in an ownership position, you think any of this is going to change? I don’t.


You’re probably right.

110 Querent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:40:38pm

re: #105 OldLineTexan
cue the Soviet joke about the wheelbarrow thief…

111 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:40:46pm

re: #102 alegrias

OMG …


EAT OUR PORK!

/sounds kinda Bart Simpson-y bad

112 JacksonTn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:40:51pm

re: #93 Nevergiveup

All this makes me sick to my stomach. I hate socialism.

NGU … yes … and even if the democrats are out of the White House in 2012 (which will not happen if they get the amnesty on for illegals) … how do you put the genie back in the bottle … I hate Obama and his socialist (oh, but progressive sounds so much more warm and fuzzy) buddies … so what’s next … dividing up the farms? … Dr. Zhivago scenario? … spare rooms in your house? … well, sure they can be filled with ACORN people …

113 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:41:06pm

re: #87 CommonCents

Did we ever get the text of Biden or Obama’s comments at the union meeting in Miami awhile back? The one where reporters were locked out?

* * * *
“Dance with the ones that brung ya baby!

We’re here to Dance!”

Said Joe Biden to the Unionistas at their union-owned Fountainbleau Hotel resort.

114 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:41:09pm

re: #90 Rednek

UAW Will Own 55% of Chrysler

Sounds like someone should write a book about this.

Oh.

Already been written!

No, actually, you mean this book.

115 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:41:11pm

re: #91 gmsc

As the government continues to run GM and Chrysler into the ground, keep reminding yourself and everyone else that this is exactly how they’ll handle health care.

100 dings if I could. Hi gmsc :)

116 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:41:21pm

re: #103 zombie

You’ve just outlined the perfectly legal route to the complete socialism-ization of the American economy.

They’ll start with the banks and the auto industry, being taken over by “the people” and the unions. And then any industry that gets in trouble, through the use of bankruptcy, bailouts and executive orders, those companies will fall prey to the predatory socialist government.

Little by little (or lots by lots, at this pace), private corporations will become public entities and/or worker-controlled entities in this country.

And there’s another name for that: Socialism.

but as long as duty is not lifted to prohibitive levels
people just will not buy those crappy cars
and he will fall flat on his face

but the POTUS has leverage in that he can increase tariff’s at will
and he would really have to do that to get people to buy HIS cars

117 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:41:29pm

re: #93 Nevergiveup

All this makes me sick to my stomach. I hate socialism.

Agreed. Just don’t forget your LGF screenname.

118 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:41:30pm

#31 Charles

Yes, that would certainly be problematic. But they may have mitigated that conflict by giving owenership to
“The United Auto Workers union’s retiree health-care fund”.

Whatever the case, the appearance, at the very least, is horrible.

119 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:42:00pm

re: #70 Russkilitlover

Instead of boss, do Chrysler employees now refer to their union as Commisar?

Der commissar’s in Detroit uh-oh.

120 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:42:16pm

Harsh interrogation: does it work or not?

Perhaps had we given the traditional methods a bit more time, they would have worked just as well. In other words, until we (in effect) conduct a randomized Phase III clinical trial in which half the high-level detains are assigned to the harsh interrogation group and the other half are exposed to the traditional interrogation group, we can’t know with certainty that the harsh interrogation worked.

121 Idle Drifter  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:42:19pm

Crap on a cracker in the middle of August.
Sigh

Youtube Video

Sing it, Frank.

122 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:42:27pm

re: #119 KenJen

Der commissar’s in Detroit uh-oh.

Sigh!

I miss New Wave.

123 jill e  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:42:42pm

“We all want progress, but if you’re on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.” —C.S. Lewis

124 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:42:56pm

re: #82 OldLineTexan

My POS Honda was built in the US, unlike the POS Suburban the Chevy dealer tried to sell me.

Still not buying one, and never will.

125 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:43:06pm

Timely topic…

BEWARE.

The Price to Earnings Ratio (P/E) of the S&P 500 is right now about 120 (I can give the XLS link right off S&P’s website). This is ridiculously high and a serious bubble in itself. Normal is like 25. Either earnings have to come up, or price WILL come down… A LOT… because 120 is 4.8 times too high. I dare say I doubt the market will to to 1/5th of what it is, but mark my words… Protect your interests.

126 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:43:15pm

re: #115 Erik The Red

100 dings if I could. Hi gmsc :)

Thanks!

Howdy, Erik!

//Dang, I’ve been seen during the day by a member of the LDNT crew!

127 Right mind left  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:43:32pm

re: #80 quickjustice

This is a complete perversion of the bankruptcy process. If I were the other creditors of the company, I’d be in federal court tomorrow suing the government for breach of fiduciary duty. The trouble is, many of those creditors are banks that the U.S. Treasury already controls. It’s sweet to be able to pull so many puppet strings at once to benefit the unions, isn’t it?

It’s also a perfect example of what I posted earlier— the Article I section 8 bankruptcy power of Congress, as enacted into the bankruptcy statute, is being used as political cover for a government takeover of a major, publicly held company at taxpayer expense, and then to cover a sweetheart deal with the labor unions.

The U.S. government is taking sides in labor-management issues as to which it traditionally had remained neutral. The labor relations laws enacted this neutrality, which Obama now has abandoned without enabling legislation. I have no doubt that Congress will ratify all of this, papering over the highhanded use of executive power.

He also is allowing the unions payola cover by rolling back the Union’s financial disclosure requirements:

www.washingtontimes.com
Critics worry that the rollback of union reporting requirements will keep hidden potentially corrupt financial arrangements aimed at rooting out corruption, but unions say the Bush administration reporting rules were unfair and burdensome.

“Strong financial disclosure requirements are necessary to root out and combat union-related corruption,” Rep. Howard P. “Buck” McKeon, California Republican, and Rep. John Kline, Minnesota Republican, wrote in a recent letter to the department.

/change!

128 Kilroy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:43:44pm

When Walmart sells cars they won’t be GM’s or Chrysler’s.

129 turn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:43:54pm

re: #5 Dr. Sanity

Well that will drive it into the ground without a doubt.

wow, turn didn’t know you posted here. Yesterday research ok told me you’re blogging again, I’m going to go check out your site. I’m glad you’re back, need more sanity in this insane world that’s for sure.

130 HoosierHoops  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:44:08pm

re: #115 Erik The Red

100 dings if I could. Hi gmsc :)

Hey Erik! how goes it?

131 Cicero05  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:44:12pm

Let’s see…

What will I be looking for from an auto manufacturer when I buy my next car?

(1) A company where a trade union mentality controls the design, manufacturing and marketing processes? CHECK

(2) A company operated with the efficiency and innovative spirit of the federal government? CHECK

(3) A company that doesn’t even need to make a sale to me to get my money, since it’s already taken it in the form of my taxes? CHECK

I guess I’ll be buying a Chrysler!

132 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:44:15pm

re: #128 Kilroy

When Walmart sells cars they won’t be GM’s or Chrysler’s.

No, knowing Wal-Mart, they’ll be Cherys or Geeleys.

133 HelloDare  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:44:17pm

re: #20 livefreeor die

So what happens to their retirement plans when they drive the company into the ground?

Obama will make sure you and I pay pay for the retirement plans.

134 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:44:24pm

re: #124 Honorary Yooper

Still not buying one, and never will.

It’s (still) a free country.

Isn’t it great? They can’t tell us what to buy (yet), so I did not have to purchase that Mexican POS.

135 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:44:25pm

re: #118 Thom

THOM!?

136 jill e  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:44:36pm

Jimmy Hoffa’s somewhere whooping it up!

137 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:06pm

Technically, the employee benefit plan trusts are legally separate from the unions, with fiduciary duties to beneficiaries. I don’t know whether the composition of their boards is joint management-union, or strictly union. With management now controlled by government, the trustees are de facto union-controlled, however.

138 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:14pm

re: #135 littleoldlady

THOM!?

Wait – you exist during the day, littleoldlady?!?

139 Right mind left  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:17pm

The number of various issues to be angry about is overwhelming.

140 Lincolntf  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:22pm

Gee, as majority shareholders, I wonder how they feel about their layabout Union employees getting the summer off with pay?

141 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:32pm

re: #126 gmsc

Thanks!

Howdy, Erik!

//Dang, I’ve been seen during the day by a member of the LDNT crew!

TWO! ;-)

142 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:34pm

re: #135 littleoldlady

THOM!?

You found TOM? Call Ground Control!

143 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:45:59pm

re: #124 Honorary Yooper

Still not buying one, and never will.

Why not? I’ve never had a Honda, but had the impression that they generally were good cars.

144 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:46:06pm

re: #138 gmsc

Wait – you exist during the day, littleoldlady?!?

I’m wearing shades…

145 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:46:41pm

re: #50 zombie

Oh, ugh, I didn’t think of that. So the UAW can undermine Ford, force it to its knees, and take it over too. Or at least force it to take TARP money in order to compete. Level the playing field, so to speak.

146 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:46:49pm

re: #118 Thom

Are you the very same “Thom” with whom i used to fight elbow-to-elbow as the only two evolutionists on LGF back in the “old days” when 500 creationists would gang up on us? (I’m talkin’ 2004-2005-ish). If so: Welcome back!

147 HelloDare  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:46:54pm

Hell, why don’t we just let the UAW run health care.

148 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:47:04pm

re: #130 HoosierHoops

Hey Erik! how goes it?

Hey 2H. I am good. Very busy during the day here. Not much time for the LNDT :( Only 2 days left before hand over to new owner and then 1 Month of consulting.

149 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:47:21pm

re: #3 MandyManners

Why do I hear the Internationale playing?

Gotta admit, though, it is a toe-tapper.///

Yep. We’re doomed.

I got a shock at the San Diego Scout Fair. One of the Troop moms came up the booth wearing what looked like a Mao cap—except it had a yellow star (five pointed) off-set to the left. She said it was the new Girl Scout Caps. I have not been able confirm this, but it is pretty radical if she was correct.

150 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:47:27pm

And now, the kind of plant you will definitely never see in the United States:

Youtube Video
151 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:47:35pm

re: #142 OldLineTexan

Not just “Tom”. THOM! Thom was here even before I was!

Hiya, OldLineTexan! :-)

152 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:47:37pm

re: #136 jill e

Jimmy Hoffa’s somewhere whooping it up!

He’s on that dessert Island with JFK isn’t he?

153 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:47:54pm

re: #133 HelloDare

The retirement plans already are guaranteed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), but not to the extent of 100%. It’s the difference where retirees will take a haircut.

154 Querent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:47:58pm

re: #149 calcajun

Gotta admit, though, it is a toe-tapper.///

Yep. We’re doomed.

I got a shock at the San Diego Scout Fair. One of the Troop moms came up the booth wearing what looked like a Mao cap—except it had a yellow star (five pointed) off-set to the left. She said it was the new Girl Scout Caps. I have not been able confirm this, but it is pretty radical if she was correct.

Yowza.

155 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:48:01pm

135 {littleoldlady}

Hi! :)

156 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:48:01pm

re: #53 Adrenalyn

20, 30 percent tariff unless the foreign car companies allow their factories here to be unionized.

157 saberry0530  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:48:06pm

re: #152 Nevergiveup

He’s on that dessert Island with JFK isn’t he?

and Elvis…….

158 subsailor68  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:48:13pm

Tariffs might be problematic, as many “foreign” cars (e.g. Nissan and Toyota) are manufactured here in the US. If UAW were to push the administration to erect tariff barriers, it could lead to higher unemployment in these manufacturing areas - not what the administration needs right now.

Interesting dilemma for Obama one would think.

159 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:48:38pm

re: #143 Occasional Reader

Why not? I’ve never had a Honda, but had the impression that they generally were good cars.

I’ve owned three all new and nothing ever went wrong with any of them…my 6 cylinder coup was one hell of a fact car

160 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:48:58pm

re: #147 HelloDare

Hell, why don’t we just let the UAW run health care.

I make you an offer you can’t defuse. Now get the F…ck outa my office.

161 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:00pm

It’s bad enough that they’re going to take Fiats, and Chrysler-ize them. I give them two years; three years MAX.

But I wouldn’t count on any of this happening, because the EU is all over Fiat for talking about mergers, when they’re already in debt. The EU could torpedo the whole thing.

162 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:05pm

re: #146 zombie

Could well be:

Thom
Karma: 35
Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 11:29 am
(Logged in)
No. of comments posted: 12,191
163 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:08pm

re: #85 Occasional Reader

I think we could well see a resurrection of the US auto industry in the medium term future, but it will consist of a) Ford, and b) one or more companies that do not yet exist (or are barely on the radar).

Tesla Motors

164 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:10pm

146 zombie

LOL. Indeed. Those were fun times. Exhausting, but fun.

165 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:21pm

re: #159 albusteve

I’ve owned three all new and nothing ever went wrong with any of them…my 6 cylinder coup was one hell of a fact car

facter than a speeding bullict

166 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:26pm

re: #159 albusteve

I’ve owned three all new and nothing ever went wrong with any of them…my 6 cylinder coup was one hell of a fact car

I want a fact car! Most of mine have been fiction…

/just pokin’ fun. :)

167 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:32pm

re: #155 Thom

Good grief! It IS you! YAY! :-)

How ARE you!? {THOM}

168 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:41pm

re: #118 Thom

#31 Charles

Yes, that would certainly be problematic. But they may have mitigated that conflict by giving owenership to
“The United Auto Workers union’s retiree health-care fund”.

Whatever the case, the appearance, at the very least, is horrible.

ThomTM!

169 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:46pm

re: #159 albusteve

My Honda was an excellent car. Much more reliable than my Oldsmobile and Cadillac.

170 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:49:51pm

re: #21 Occasional Reader

Well, thinking about it… arguably, it represents an ALIGNMENT of interests.

Now If the UAW members act in ways that will undercut Chrysler’s share price, they’ll be very directly shooting themselves in the foot.

That was what I said a few threads back; in fact I used the term “aligned”.
The UAW has lots of money, and invests. Investors in capitalism get to buy stock. Employee-owned companies have been known to reform and do amazingly well. If UAW buys a majority stake in Chrysler, then Chrysler is an employee-owned company*, and this should get all of the hamsters running in the same direction.
The biggest problem I have with the whole deal is that the gummint will have a large chunk of it. Get the government out, and tell UAW that if they want to buy, they can have the government’s proposed share as well. After all, the whole purpose of government involvement was to provide cash when nobody else would.
The real conflict of interest, IMHO, is the fact that now Ford and GM employees are also in on Chrysler’s board, in an incestuous deal that smacks of Japanese “Zaibatsu” style cross-ownership. It’s part of what created in Japan a system which, when things went well, went very well, and when things went poorly, utterly collapsed. The opposite of a check & baance system, instead, it is a positive feedback loop. I don’t know if that applies (just rambling), or if that effect would simply be washed away by skullduggery (“Let’s torpedo Chrysler and divvy up the assets amongst ourselves!”).

Still, in general, I have nothing against UAW ownership, so long as it can be made to work as employee ownership. Could an arm which represents Chrysler’s portion of the UAW be the actual shareholders?

171 blueroom127  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:50:10pm

My prediction:

Soon, considering the power of the unions over the Democrats and the GM debacle, the US will place massive tarrifs and taxes on all foreign cars essentially making it cost prohibitive to by anything but their overpriced, shoddily made government warrantied cars.

This is the next and natural step.

172 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:50:40pm

re: #20 livefreeor die

So what happens to their retirement plans when they drive the company into the ground?

They will manufacture golden parachutes.

173 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:50:40pm

re: #147 HelloDare

Hell, why don’t we just let the UAW run health care.

Hey, they might just.

174 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:50:55pm

re: #151 littleoldlady

Not just “Tom”. THOM! Thom was here even before I was!

Hiya, OldLineTexan! :-)

Hiya!

175 BlueCanuck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:51:00pm

re: #141 littleoldlady

TWO! ;-)

Three?

/lurking here at work.

176 aggieann  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:51:00pm

re: #125 Max Darkside

Timely topic…

BEWARE.

The Price to Earnings Ratio (P/E) of the S&P 500 is right now about 120 (I can give the XLS link right off S&P’s website). This is ridiculously high and a serious bubble in itself. Normal is like 25. Either earnings have to come up, or price WILL come down… A LOT… because 120 is 4.8 times too high. I dare say I doubt the market will to to 1/5th of what it is, but mark my words… Protect your interests.

In what time frame?

177 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:51:01pm

re: #144 littleoldlady

I’m wearing shades…

…is the future that bright?
;)

178 jorline  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:51:32pm

re: #111 OldLineTexan

OMG …

EAT OUR PORK!

/sounds kinda Bart Simpson-y bad

Is it racist for me to call pork the other white meat?

179 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:51:35pm

Ah. Government made cars. Think of the heady days when Britain rolled such memorable models off the line. Names such as….wait, it’ll come to me. The impeccable stylings of such makes as…you all remember them…flooded the motorways (at least the shoulders because that’s where I remember seeing them) of the land. Renowned for durability, these cars would go for …weeks maybe…before needing any maintenance. Yes, a golden age for salvage dealers indeed. And that time is coming again.

180 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:51:45pm

re: #164 Thom

146 zombie

LOL. Indeed. Those were fun times. Exhausting, but fun.

The best part is…sanity triumphed eventually. Thanks to you! (With a little assistance from me.) (And a huge intervention from Charles.) The change in atmosphere around here is astounding. I’d never felt so outnumbered in my life.

181 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:51:59pm

re: #102 alegrias

Iowa’ Tom Vilsack, Secretary of Something or Another,
says EAT OUR PORK please.

Don’t call it Swine Flu, it’s H1N1!

The pork is safe people.


The fear of pork is just more of our excellent public science education biting us in the H1N1ey.

182 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:52:01pm

re: #152 Nevergiveup

He’s on that dessert Island with JFK isn’t he?

I bet he lives in Gettlefinger’s basement.

183 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:52:02pm

re: #63 Adrenalyn

Yeah, I’ve been waiting to see what the excuse is for that; maybe “windfall profits”? Fairness will be enforced by creating one big, honking national petroleum company (PetroBama! ObamaGas! BarackOtroleum!).

184 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:53:05pm

Fascist economic strategies have failed before. Think Mussolini, Hitler, and the New Deal. I think they’ll fail here as well, at a huge cost to the taxpayers and the economy.

185 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:53:08pm

re: #146 zombie

as the only two evolutionists on LGF

Er… chopped livah ovah heah, demanding a little respect.

186 OldLineTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:53:26pm

re: #178 jorline

Is it racist for me to call pork the other white meat?

EVERYTHING you or I say is racist, dude.

/

187 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:53:29pm

re: #20 livefreeor die

So what happens to their retirement plans when they drive the company into the ground?

We pick up the tab!

Aren’t you excited?

188 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:53:31pm

re: #175 BlueCanuck

Three?

/lurking here at work.

The LNDT takes over the day walkers :)

189 astronmr20  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:53:53pm

“Workers unite!”

/uh oh…

190 gregb  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:04pm

They must see it as a way to get future UAW concessions. Beginning of the end.

191 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:27pm

re: #171 blueroom127

My prediction:

Soon, considering the power of the unions over the Democrats and the GM debacle, the US will place massive tarrifs and taxes on all foreign cars essentially making it cost prohibitive to by anything but their overpriced, shoddily made government warrantied cars.

This is the next and natural step.

Like a scene from some horror film, Karl Marx’s desiccated finger is seen making a twitch in his tomb at Highgate Cemetery. The Beast is coming back to life.

192 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:30pm

re: #152 Nevergiveup

He’s on that dessert Island with JFK isn’t he?

I couldn’t live on a dessert island; I’d end up looking like Orson Welles.

193 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:34pm

re: #185 Occasional Reader

Er… chopped livah ovah heah, demanding a little respect.

We love you, but you know that you’re going to burn in hell for your blatant heresies.////////////////

194 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:38pm

re: #184 quickjustice

Fascist economic strategies have failed before. Think Mussolini, Hitler, and the New Deal. I think they’ll fail here as well, at a huge cost to the taxpayers and the economy.

April 28, 1945 – Mussolini killed.

April 28, 2009 – Mussolini reborn.

195 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:46pm

re: #180 zombie

The best part is…sanity triumphed eventually. Thanks to you! (With a little assistance from me.) (And a huge intervention from Charles.) The change in atmosphere around here is astounding. I’d never felt so outnumbered in my life.

A humble question to you Zombie, wasn’t Sharmuta around at that time. She would have been a formidable ally.

196 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:48pm

re: #176 aggieann

In what time frame?

Hard to say, but my guess is soon. Days? You see this rally losing steam, rolling over. In the 2000’s there were numerous rallies during that bubble pop, then the markets dropped hard again. I think this is one of those moments. Man the lifeboats, I think the Titanic is going to lurch again…

197 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:55pm

re: #68 gmsc

So, how do I go about shorting Chrysler stock? I’m looking to make a fortune!

Sure, I’ll be called the Anti-Chrysler, but it’ll be worth it.

Does your phone area code start with 666…..?
/

198 Querent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:54:55pm

re: #191 zombie

Like a scene from some horror film, Karl Marx’s desiccated finger is seen making a twitch in his tomb at Highgate Cemetery. The Beast is coming back to life.

cue the Munch scream…

nnNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo!

199 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:55:09pm

re: #136 jill e

Jimmy Hoffa’s somewhere whooping it up!


I wondered what that muffled cheering sound from under the bleachers at the Meadowlands was. /

200 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:55:13pm

re: #146 zombie

Are you the very same “Thom” with whom i used to fight elbow-to-elbow as the only two evolutionists on LGF back in the “old days” when 500 creationists would gang up on us? (I’m talkin’ 2004-2005-ish). If so: Welcome back!

wait a sec….
I thought “I” was the only round earther back then

201 dhg4  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:55:30pm

re: #8 saberry0530

SO, if they have a disagreement and go on strike, do they strike against themselves?

In Israel the main labor union Histadrut owns (or owned) Koor industries. Some time about 15 or 20 years ago I think, the workers at one Koor’s plants struck. Sounds odd doesn’t it.

202 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:55:44pm

re: #175 BlueCanuck

Hey Blue. Check my FB page I need some “stuff” will return the gifts. Just let me know what you need.

203 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:55:59pm

re: #96 MandyManners

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough is fucking happy now!

Shhhhhhhhh!. They’re all asleep. Don’t wake them.
/

204 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:56:06pm

re: #189 astronmr20

“Workers unite!”

/uh oh…

They already did, Oblivia./
Bourgeoisie pig—we’re the other white meat

205 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:56:35pm

re: #156 joncelli

20, 30 percent tariff unless the foreign car companies allow their factories here to be unionized.

no, you are way low
we had sec 301 duty of 100% on steel a few years back

I can see that for cars

206 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:57:05pm

re: #199 DaddyG

I wondered what that muffled cheering sound from under the bleachers at the Meadowlands was. /

He’s going to burrow out from under the 50-yard line, at halftime during the Giants’ home opener.

/i’m baaaa-aack!

207 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:57:12pm

re: #201 dhg4

In Israel the main labor union Histadrut owns (or owned) Koor industries. Some time about 15 or 20 years ago I think, the workers at one Koor’s plants struck. Sounds odd doesn’t it.

So if they cross the picket line, do they have to beat themselves up?

208 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:57:24pm

re: #85 Occasional Reader

I think we could well see a resurrection of the US auto industry in the medium term future, but it will consist of a) Ford, and b) one or more companies that do not yet exist (or are barely on the radar).

There are all those plants out there sitting idle and a few major brand names suddenly available, but who would be able to make a go of that? I’m sorry to see Pontiac go, I always loved their style over the much simpler looking Chevy’s. Ford seems able to continue, provided the UAW doesn’t screw them too badly, and this development seems to indicate that they may do just that. I expect Ford to do something if the UAW is suddenly a major competitor.

209 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:57:53pm

re: #194 gmsc

April 28, 1945 – Mussolini killed.

April 28, 2009 – Mussolini reborn.

we shall call it

Earster

210 pegcity  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:57:56pm

3 words

British

Layland

Motors

211 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:57:58pm

Terrorists moving from Pak-Afghan border to Somalia


US military officials have noticed that a growing number of al Qaida terrorists are moving from the Pak-Afghan border to to areas of Africa, specifically Somalia. Large areas of Somalia are ruled by al Shabaab, a terrorist group linked to al Qaida, which has implemented islamic law. US counter-terrorism officials are worried that the battle hardened terrorists will train al Shabaab in sophisticated terror tactics.

In recent months al Qaida has focused more energy on Somalia. Last month an audio video of Bin Laden called for the overthrow of the Somali government. Al Zawahiri had also released a video calling for more support for al Shabaab fighters.

212 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:05pm

re: #194 gmsc

April 28, 1945 – Mussolini killed.

April 28, 2009 – Mussolini reborn.

Hell, even the cars will be half-Italian!

213 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:12pm

If I start gazing at the ceiling and making off-hand remarks about “official unions” in the Soviet Union, particularly when Trotsky was preaching “armies of labor”, am I going to be regarded as off my rocker?

214 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:21pm

re: #105 OldLineTexan

He’s going to start back at the beginning … wheelbarrows.

To carry all our money? Cool!

215 Idle Drifter  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:25pm

re: #150 gmsc

Did Ford have the foresight to refuse the Bailout money and not be overtaken in a combined effort by the Federal Government and the UAW? Well no doubt some feelings and hunches at Ford were proved correct.

Love the video.

216 BlueCanuck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:26pm

re: #202 Erik The Red

I will try to remember for when I get home. I don’t have acess to FB here at work. Something about social networking sites….

217 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:40pm

re: #209 Adrenalyn

we shall call it

Earster

That’s what we eat on the half-shell in N’Awlins.

218 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:43pm

0bama, let me explain the American economic system in terms so simple, even you can understand it:

By Word Of Mouse:

Youtube Video

Heir Conditioned:

Youtube Video

Yankee Dood It:

Youtube Video
219 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:52pm

re: #210 pegcity

3 words

British

Layland

Motors

one word…Leyland

220 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:58:55pm

re: #185 Occasional Reader

Er… chopped livah ovah heah, demanding a little respect.

‘spec!

I was being hyperbolic. You know how these war stories get exaggerated!

221 aggieann  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:16pm

re: #68 gmsc

So, how do I go about shorting Chrysler stock? I’m looking to make a fortune!

Sure, I’ll be called the Anti-Chrysler, but it’ll be worth it.

No Kiadding.

222 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:20pm

re: #213 Dianna

If I start gazing at the ceiling and making off-hand remarks about “official unions” in the Soviet Union, particularly when Trotsky was preaching “armies of labor”, am I going to be regarded as off my rocker?


Madness can be an appropriate response to insane times.

223 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:21pm

BTW, said this was going to all go under in August, 2007. I pulled my last $ out of the markets in Dec. 2007. I don’t play short else I’d be rich right now.

224 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:24pm

re: #212 Ward Cleaver

Hell, even the cars will be half-Italian!

That’s Chrysler, not GM!

Executive Fiat.

225 Lincolntf  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:38pm

re: #211 Kenneth

Nice spot for them.

226 Mikey_Dallas  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:51pm

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.” – Ronald Reagan

I found this in Mark Levin’s new book…

And from Jefferson Airplane….”Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose”.

Won’t be long before we WILL have nothing left to lose. Poll question - will the United States still be around 1 year from now?

227 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:55pm

re: #194 gmsc

April 28, 1945 – Mussolini killed.

April 28, 2009 – Mussolini reborn.

Possible bright side: He’ll make Amtrak run on time?

/

228 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 12:59:57pm

Anybody know what GM plans to do with Cadillac, if anything?

229 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:00:17pm

re: #179 calcajun

Ah. Government made cars. Think of the heady days when Britain rolled such memorable models off the line. Names such as….wait, it’ll come to me. The impeccable stylings of such makes as…you all remember them…flooded the motorways (at least the shoulders because that’s where I remember seeing them) of the land. Renowned for durability, these cars would go for …weeks maybe…before needing any maintenance. Yes, a golden age for salvage dealers indeed. And that time is coming again.

Don’t worry; the cars will be 100% recyclable. It will keep the workers Democratic voters busy disassembling the old ones and building new ones. They do have to get them to last the length of the financing, though.

230 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:00:29pm

re: #228 LGoPs

Anybody know what GM plans to do with Cadillac, if anything?

The Cadillac Whack to end all Cadillac Whacks?

231 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:00:34pm

re: #195 callahan23

A humble question to you Zombie, wasn’t Sharmuta around at that time. She would have been a formidable ally.

I don’t remember. But not to my knowledge on those threads. You’ll have to ask her.

232 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:00:39pm

re: #208 CyanSnowHawk

I was just thinking that this is probably the week to write to Ford and tell them how much I’d like to remain a customer.

The problem being, Kriemhild (my truck) runs fine. She’s eleven years old, but I’ve vowed to keep her until the wheels fall off. I’m not replacing her for another five years, at least.

So maybe this isn’t the week to write to Ford?

233 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:00:39pm

re: #200 Adrenalyn

wait a sec….
I thought “I” was the only round earther back then

Round Earthers - that’s the perfect name for Zombie’s political party!

234 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:00:44pm

re: #227 Occasional Reader

Possible bright side: He’ll make Amtrak run on time?

/

Or legislate the clocks to show that the trains do; or ban the clocks; or something.

235 Salem  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:01:28pm

Rush predicted this but what does that fat idiot know?

236 jpkoch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:01:45pm

Mmmm…allowing the UAW to be the majority holders of Chrysler is like putting 4 felons in charge of the US Mint. The question that begs to be asked is, how can the UAW raid what’s left of Chrysler’s assets without the company going totally belly-up? Oh, I’ve got it: create a permanent funnel from the taxpayers to Chrysler. Chrysler then just becomes another expense for the federal government (kind of like PBS).

The other question is who will now ever buy a Chrysler product again? Why nobody will. Chrysler’s new management could do everyone a favor, and just close up shop and have the federal government send every one of their employees a paycheck for the rest of their lives.

237 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:01:48pm

If GM and Chrysler had filed Chapter 11 a year ago without government interference, their management would have negotiated with their unions, banks, and other creditors. Management would have had the right to reject all of the bad contracts (union, dealership, supplier, etc.). The damages from all those rejections would have ended up as claims against the bankruptcy estate in any event. The companies would have emerged from bankruptcy as leaner, more competitive entities under a confirmed reorganization plan.

The underfunded pension plans would have been taken over by PBGC at taxpayer expense.

Likely outcome: a leaner, more competitive company with private sector management. Instead, we have the U.S. government and Obama’s labor union allies in charge of the reorganized entity.

238 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:01:51pm

re: #208 CyanSnowHawk

Pontiac is going?

239 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:01:55pm

re: #111 OldLineTexan

OMG …

EAT OUR PORK!

/sounds kinda Bart Simpson-y bad

SAVE OUR BACON, EAT OUR PORK!

240 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:01:58pm

Well maybe if the workers own a majority in the company they will have an interest in seeing it run well, in a leaner way and with better designs, and not just think of the company as a big cow of a job.


And let us remember the hemi

241 redmirabai  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:02:09pm

re: #20 livefreeor die

I presume the American Taxpayer (whoever is left, that is) will be picking up that tab.

242 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:02:14pm

re: #233 DaddyG

Round Earthers - that’s the perfect name for Zombie’s political party!

The have nothing to sphere but sphere itself.

243 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:02:38pm

re: #238 haakondahl

Pontiac is going?

Down like the Hindenburg.

244 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:02:42pm

re: #200 Adrenalyn

wait a sec….
I thought “I” was the only round earther back then

There were undoubtedly several of us! I just remember a couple of specific threads on which Thom and I alone faced the hordes. Other threads were undoubtedly populated by other heroes!

245 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:02:51pm

re: #222 Guanxi88

Madness can be an appropriate response to insane times.

*Sigh.*

I was afraid of that.

246 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:02:56pm

re: #226 Mikey_Dallas

The song is “Me and Maggie McGee”, Janis Joplin did a fine version.

247 sandspur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:03:04pm

re: #96 MandyManners

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough is fucking happy now!

You said a mouthful!

248 pegcity  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:03:16pm

it amazes me that in the span of 4 months the US is now more socialist than Canada

249 cronus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:03:24pm

So does this mean I am suddenly more committed to capitalism because I own a Toyota?

250 Mikey_Dallas  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:03:29pm

re: #246 Ojoe

The song is “Me and Maggie McGee”, Janis Joplin did a fine version.

I stand corrected. Thanks

251 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:03:48pm

re: #213 Dianna

If I start gazing at the ceiling and making off-hand remarks about “official unions” in the Soviet Union, particularly when Trotsky was preaching “armies of labor”, am I going to be regarded as off my rocker?

Not by me.

252 Jimmah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:03:51pm

OT: Spencer is at it again today. Each point he makes is invalid, but the point about the music stood out for me as a sad lesson on the subject of where he gets his ejumacashun from these days.

He is claiming that the Nazi Hitler Youth music linked to the other night at the nation24.de website was in fact a ‘documentary’. To prove his ‘point’, he links to a post on Atlas Shrugs website which contains a post by an LGFtwo-er (who made an identical post on that site), previously known on LGF as ‘ETNorskTroll’. In the post is a link to a translated page which allegedly reveals the shocking truth:

tinyurl.com

This just confirms what was obvious all along - that this is a CD of Hitler Youth Music! (A ‘documentary’ - i.e. a record of this music) You’d think given the insane ramblings about LGF members that begins the post containing this link that Spencer ‘the scholar’ might have been smart enough to do a little fact checking before announcing this on Jihadwatch. Instead he’s allowing himself to be led by the nose by some of the most idiotic people on the internet and is making a bigger arse of himself than ever seemed possible. Either that or he is being deliberately dishonest, taking idiotic lies and passing them on in the knowledge that his fans can be counted on to accept anything that it comes with his seal of approval.

253 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:03:57pm

re: #177 gmsc

…is the future that bright?
;)

Mushroom clouds will do that for ya.

254 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:04:03pm

re: #240 Ojoe

Well maybe if the workers own a majority in the company they will have an interest in seeing it run well, in a leaner way and with better designs, and not just think of the company as a big cow of a job.

And let us remember the hemi

the best racing engine ever made…you can still by them right from the factory for the same price as a medium sized house

255 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:04:04pm

re: #245 Dianna

*Sigh.*

I was afraid of that.

There is a fine line between genius and madness. BHO has erased that line.

256 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:04:10pm

re: #226 Mikey_Dallas

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.” – Ronald Reagan

I found this in Mark Levin’s new book…

And from Jefferson Airplane….”Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose”.

Won’t be long before we WILL have nothing left to lose. Poll question - will the United States still be around 1 year from now?


Kris Kristofferson wrote Me and Bobbie McGee, made famous by Janis Joplin; that contains the “Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose” line.

Which gives me the excuse to recycle this:

Me And Barack Hussein

Busted flat in the USA
Looking for a job
Feeling near as worn out as my shoes

Barack passed a bailout bill
With millions for ACORN
Then I knew I’d get screwed

I took my last dollar
Out of my dirty empty wallet
And was feeling sad when Barack said he’d help

With them Democrats raisin’ taxes
And Barack passing gas
They helped the bank that foreclosed my home

Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose
And Barack says this land is free
Freedom seemed easier before he came to town
And I had some money to spend on me.

257 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:04:18pm

re: #163 DaddyG

I so badly want an electric car — a true plug-in that I can connect to the grid overnight and drive to work in the morning. But we’re not at a point where the middle class can afford electric, so we have to put up with this consolidation of the traditional car market under federal control — and the feds WILL crush any non-union, innovative car company that starts to challenge the unionized manufacturers.

258 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:04:22pm

re: #227 Occasional Reader

Possible bright side: He’ll make Amtrak run on time?

/

Purely not possible. Amtrak is - like MUNI - designed not to be on time.

259 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:04:25pm

re: #248 pegcity

it amazes me that in the span of 4 months the US is now more socialist than Canada

Blame Canada!

260 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:05:05pm

re: #246 Ojoe

The song is “Me and Maggie McGee”, Janis Joplin did a fine version.

Kris Kristoferson wrote it

261 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:05:12pm

re: #228 LGoPs

Anybody know what GM plans to do with Cadillac, if anything?

It, along with Chevy and Buick are the only makes that should survive. GMC builds mainly badge-engineered Chevrolets, so they should go.

262 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:05:49pm

re: #255 calcajun

There is a fine line between genius and madness. BHO has erased that line.


Actually, I heard a rumor that Clinton snorted that line some years ago. Nothing but a faint, pwdery trace left, and that he wiped up with greedy fingers and rubbed across his soon-to-be-numb gums.

263 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:05:55pm

re: #246 Ojoe

The song is “Me and Maggie McGee”, Janis Joplin did a fine version.

Isn’t it “Bobby McGee”? Unless Janis did a Sapphic version.

264 Rancher  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:06:04pm

re: #246 Ojoe

The song is “Me and Maggie McGee”, Janis Joplin did a fine version.


Bobby McGee.

265 midwestgak  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:06:07pm

re: #246 Ojoe

The song is “Me and Maggie McGee”, Janis Joplin did a fine version.

um, Me and Bobby McGee?

Maggie Mae by Rod Stewart?

266 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:06:10pm

re: #261 Ward Cleaver

It, along with Chevy and Buick are the only makes that should survive. GMC builds mainly badge-engineered Chevrolets, so they should go.

And when all the WWII generation dies, they’ll stop making Buicks. //

267 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:06:11pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Isn’t it “Bobby McGee”? Unless Janis did a Sapphic version.

yes

268 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:06:12pm
re: #238 haakondahl

Pontiac is going?

Down like the Hindenburg.

Oh, the LeManity!

269 looking closely  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:06:25pm

Here’s the bottom line:

So long as unions are running the show, the company will be non-competitive and will eventually go bankrupt.

This effort is just taking money from the taxpayer, and using it to subsidize the unions for a few more years until that happens.

Worse, by the time Chrysler actually collapses, Obama will probably be out of office and unaccountable.

270 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:06:43pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Yes. Bobby not Maggie.

271 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:02pm

re: #170 haakondahl

All ranting aside, you’re right, employee ownership can work. The problem is that the employees won’t run the car companies, the UAW bigwigs will — and they will use the companies for political ends, profit be damned.

272 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:13pm

re: #228 LGoPs

Anybody know what GM plans to do with Cadillac, if anything?


MTV will own 55% of the stock. Look out for the new series. Pimp my automaker.

273 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:16pm

Can anyone tell my why, when you open a bag of chips to have one or two, one is compelled to finish the whole damn bag?

274 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:17pm
275 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:21pm

re: #14 Thom

What a sight for sore eyes! It is sooooooo great to see you posting! How are you?

In your honor ;)

Youtube Video
276 Noam Chumpski  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:21pm

I have this weird, gut feeling that Ford is going to make a decent profit by the end of 2009.

I’d be more confident in Chrysler’s success if it had filed for bankruptcy than with this move.

277 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:41pm

re: #11 zombie

This is 100% pure communism, Karl Marx-style:

The Workers Shall Own the Means of Production.

We tried to warn you, America, that Obama would lead this country down the path to communism. But no, you wouldn’t listen to us.

Just don’t say that you hope he fails.
/

278 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:52pm

re: #271 joncelli

All ranting aside, you’re right, employee ownership can work. The problem is that the employees won’t run the car companies, the UAW bigwigs will — and they will use the companies for political ends, profit be damned.

Hence the return to the bad days of 1970’s British Auto.

279 jpkoch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:53pm

The last factory I heard of that was taken over by the “workers” was South Bend Lathe. Once the world’s premier manufacturer of small and medium sized lathes, SBL now occupies an empty lot next to another detritus of South Bend’s Golden Age: Studebaker.

280 ConservatismNow!  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:07:54pm

re: #220 zombie

‘spec!

I was being hyperbolic. You know how these war stories get exaggerated!

Are you saying Jon Carey did not win his Purple Heart?

281 cronus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:08:15pm

re: #273 Erik The Red

Can anyone tell my why, when you open a bag of chips to have one or two, one is compelled to finish the whole damn bag?

In our house it’s called the Law of the Cheez-it. You can’t eat just one.

282 rusty_armor  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:08:26pm

Well, now Al Gore has a production facility for his new Chrysler LeGore! to compete with the GM Puma (enclosed two passenger Segway)

A bright new dawn awaits us … I am aquiver with anticipation.

283 Jimmah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:08:27pm

Jews Are Unwanted Here

www.hurryupharry.org

A FORMER Lord Mayor of Birmingham was today accused of telling a woman she was not a suitable inner-city Labour Party candidate because she is “white and Jewish”.

…

“He told her ‘my Muslim members don’t want you because you are Jewish’. .”

284 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:08:35pm

re: #34 scott in east bay

Why would anyone buy a care built in a UAW plant? I bought a Nissan Frontier pickup made in a non-union Nissan plant in Tennessee. That plant has rejected the UAW three times.

It’s a matter of principle. Personally, I think it’s great that the UAW will build cars. Perhaps they can just call them UAWmobiles.

I do, however, expect anything run by UAW to go broke.

Once card check legislation is signed into law, the UAW thugs will be in a full-court press to bully the transplants (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Hyundai, and the coming VW plant in Chattanooga) to go union.

285 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:08:38pm

re: #273 Erik The Red

Addictive salt.

286 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:08:45pm

re: #270 Ojoe

Yes. Bobby not Maggie.

Damn. I had the video of the hot, Janis-on-Maggie Action version of the song all choreographed in my head.

287 Rancher  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:08:51pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Isn’t it “Bobby McGee”? Unless Janis did a Sapphic version.


Bobby McGee was supposed to be female according to Kris Kristofferson.

288 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:09:28pm

re: #252 Jimmah

OT: Spencer is at it again today. Each point he makes is invalid, but the point about the music stood out for me as a sad lesson on the subject of where he gets his ejumacashun from these days.

He is claiming that the Nazi Hitler Youth music linked to the other night at the nation24.de website was in fact a ‘documentary’. To prove his ‘point’, he links to a post on Atlas Shrugs website which contains a post by an LGFtwo-er (who made an identical post on that site), previously known on LGF as ‘ETNorskTroll’. In the post is a link to a translated page which allegedly reveals the shocking truth:

[Link: tinyurl.com…]

This just confirms what was obvious all along - that this is a CD of Hitler Youth Music! (A ‘documentary’ - i.e. a record of this music) You’d think given the insane ramblings about LGF members that begins the post containing this link that Spencer ‘the scholar’ might have been smart enough to do a little fact checking before announcing this on Jihadwatch. Instead he’s allowing himself to be led by the nose by some of the most idiotic people on the internet and is making a bigger arse of himself than ever seemed possible. Either that or he is being deliberately dishonest, taking idiotic lies and passing them on in the knowledge that his fans can be counted on to accept anything that it comes with his seal of approval.

Gotta love that one. No Nazis there at all. Nope. None. Nada.

So why didn’t Spencer go and speak at their meeting?

289 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:09:43pm

re: #266 calcajun

And when all the WWII generation dies, they’ll stop making Buicks. //

Buick is a prestigious brand in China, and it’ll survive over there even if it dies here.

290 lostlakehiker  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:10:00pm

Soon, the UAW will own 100% of the stock of Chrysler. Everyone else will sell, at whatever price they can get. But that’s all for the best. The workers will finally own the means of production. (* see footnote)

Any profits the company might make would go to the workers. If the company lost money, the government would simply step in to cover the shortfall. The government would surely not allow UAW-Chrysler to go under; the most productive source of campaign contributions in the history of industry would be by far too big to fail. This is a win-win situation. The workers get a good salary, and key government officials get the help they need to ensure that the right people are elected going forward.

(* footnote) The new Chrysler won’t need much steel or rubber or paint. It won’t pollute. Workers can phone in their hours. Or they can phone in sick, hey, what’s the difference? Nobody outside the UAW will own Chryslers, any more than they’ll own stock in UAW-Chrysler. There won’t be much in the way of “production”.

/O-team

291 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:10:13pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Isn’t it “Bobby McGee”? Unless Janis did a Sapphic version.

Janis said “Bobby.” I think Kristofferson’s Bobby was a girl, but he didn’t like “Bobbie”.

292 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:10:21pm

What was so horrible about filing for bankruptcy that GM would rather take this path?

293 The_Vig  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:10:22pm

This gonna end up like Airbus. Every year they will be asking for more money. Prices will go up, quality will go down. Should be fun to watch.

294 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:10:22pm

re: #284 Ward Cleaver

Once card check legislation is signed into law, the UAW thugs will be in a full-court press to bully the transplants (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Hyundai, and the coming VW plant in Chattanooga) to go union.

And if they get it, the foreign makers will say “thanks, but no thanks”, close up their US factories, and then the newly-fleged union members will wonder why they’re suddenly unemployed.

295 Lincolntf  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:10:24pm

re: #269 looking closely

Worse, by the time Chrysler actually collapses, Obama will probably be out of office and unaccountable.

…”Remember back when Obama was President? The economy was so good that we got two fulll months of paid vacation and our pension fund was gigantic! Those were the days…”

296 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:10:25pm

re: #288 Charles

Gotta love that one. No Nazis there at all. Nope. None. Nada.

So why didn’t Spencer go and speak at their meeting?

For the yummy strudel?

297 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:00pm

re: #287 Rancher

What a fine song

walking down a railroad track in the bright sun

on the edge of town

near the cheap hotels

you cannot afford anyway

298 jcbunga  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:00pm

Who would invest in their stock, loan them money or buy one of their cars after this?

Is there a single example in the history of currency that says this is a good idea?

299 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:03pm
300 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:05pm

re: #285 calcajun

Addictive salt.

OK I had some self control. I only ate half the bag :)

301 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:09pm

re: #288 Charles

So why didn’t Spencer go and speak at their meeting?

Jodhpurs and brown shirt at the cleaners?

302 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:14pm

re: #287 Rancher

Bobby McGee was supposed to be female according to Kris Kristofferson.

I think Kris should let Bobby discover his own gender, and stop dressing him up in those little girl outfits.

303 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:22pm

re: #293 The_Vig

This gonna end up like Airbus. Every year they will be asking for more money. Prices will go up, quality will go down. Should be fun to watch.

It’ll be like Lada.

304 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:27pm

Woo-hoo!

Click my avatar to see that sometime in the last ten minutes my “karma” points finally surpassed my “number of comments,” meaning I’m in positive territory for the first time! More than 1 per comment.

Of course, there are hundreds of lizards way out in front with higher ratios, but it is refreshing to not be in “karma debt” for the first time ever.

(Us old-timers had years of pre-karma comments to work off!)

305 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:11:51pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Isn’t it “Bobby McGee”? Unless Janis did a Sapphic version.

Is that the song about the person who jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge?

306 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:16pm

re: #288 Charles

Gotta love that one. No Nazis there at all. Nope. None. Nada.

So why didn’t Spencer go and speak at their meeting?

He suddenly discovered that, on whatever day it would be held, he had a previous engagement?

All the while allowing infinite, polite regret to inform every muscle in his body?

307 Lincolntf  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:30pm

re: #304 zombie

Dweeb.

308 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:31pm

I should note that it’s highly unusual for a health plan to hold assets like this. Usually health plan obligations are funded directly by the sponsoring company. It’s the PENSION plans that hold assets to cover pension obligations over the long term.

This shows how cash strapped GM and Chrysler really are. That health plan will have to liquidate its stock holdings rapidly to pay current health care costs. How long do you think that can last? What do you think the market for GM and Chrysler stock is likely to be looking forward out of reorganization?

This scheme will collapse in due course. It’s a fig leaf for the unions and Obama. Too bad for the retirees.

309 Spider Mensch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:35pm

and here’s a sneak preview of the first UAW chrysler car to be built..shhhh..it’s top secret…
Image: The_Homer.jpg

D’OH!

310 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:44pm

re: #232 Dianna

…I’ve vowed to keep her until the wheels fall off. I’m not replacing her for another five years, at least.

There is a great marriage joke in here somewhere but I fear Mandy.

311 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:46pm

re: #252 Jimmah

[Link: tinyurl.com…]

The stupidest thing of all — that’s the very same Google translation link in my post. I included a screenshot showing that very page.

Spencer’s pathetic.

312 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:46pm

re: #288 Charles

Spencer sez….

In reality, I am not going to Cologne for reasons that are not of public concern.


He and Pamela suddenly both simultaneously found something better to do that week. Any update on Spencer’s commitment to speak at the White Nationalist college group?

313 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:52pm

re: #296 Ward Cleaver

For the yummy strudel?

Oh, didn’t. Never mind.

314 Jimmah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:12:55pm

re: #288 Charles

Gotta love that one. No Nazis there at all. Nope. None. Nada.

So why didn’t Spencer go and speak at their meeting?

My guess would be - suddenly remembered prior committment syndrome./

315 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:08pm

Apparently no-drama Obama keeps his cool when some dictator lectures him or, we hope, there is a real crisis, but if his image is at stake he becomes “furious.” You can almost hear Rahm Emanuel and the President talking this through:

“Sir, much as you hate the drama, this time we should go with ‘furious.’”

“Well, Rahm, perhaps you are over-rating furiousity as an emotion; the people voted for no-drama Obama, and that’s what they got.”

“Mr. President, you really need to be furious. Trust me on this.”

“OK. But let’s not be furious too often.”

Now which Obama Angry face shall we use?
I know, how about this one:He did it!

316 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:23pm

re: #264 Rancher

Bobby McGee.

Bobby McGee for male singers, Bobbie McGee for females, unless they’re doing a gay version.

317 midwestgak  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:29pm

re: #305 gmsc

Is that the song about the person who jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge?

Bobby Joe McAllister.

318 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:35pm

re: #273 Erik The Red

Can anyone tell my why, when you open a bag of chips to have one or two, one is compelled to finish the whole damn bag?

It’s just like reaching the finish line in a race. Gotta go all the way!

319 capitalist piglet  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:35pm

I am alarmed by the sheer speed of everything that is happening. It’s as though they know they have a deadline - November of 2010 - to do as much damage as possible.

320 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:40pm

re: #288 Charles

Gotta love that one. No Nazis there at all. Nope. None. Nada.

So why didn’t Spencer go and speak at their meeting?

The BNP asked him out first?

321 looking closely  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:52pm

re: #248 pegcity

it amazes me that in the span of 4 months the US is now more socialist than Canada

Did you ever think you’d see the day when the President of the USA stood to the clear left of the President of France?

And Canada…
And Germany…
etc.

322 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:13:59pm

re: #317 midwestgak

Bobby Joe McAllister.

I think it was Billy Joe.

323 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:03pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

Spencer sez….


He and Pamela suddenly both simultaneously found something better to do that week. Any update on Spencer’s commitment to speak at the White Nationalist college group?

That was supposed to be last night. If he did speak, he’s being uncharacteristically quiet about it.

324 jpkoch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:05pm

Buick is a prestigious brand in China, and it’ll survive over there even if it dies here.

Yeah, am my mom’s old ‘67 Plymouth Fury, despite sitting on blocks in some abandoned double-wide lot was once a prestigious car. Reminds me of Adam Sandler’s Ode to my Car.

325 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:11pm

re: #269 looking closely

Here’s the bottom line:

So long as unions are running the show, the company will be non-competitive and will eventually go bankrupt.

This effort is just taking money from the taxpayer, and using it to subsidize the unions for a few more years until that happens.

Worse, by the time Chrysler actually collapses, Obama will probably be out of office and unaccountable.

I’m not sure this will prove to be a problem for two reasons.

1) Ownership only translates to control to the extent that the owners control the board of directors. My understanding is that the union will have only one rep on the board.

2) I would guess that the stock held by the union will be sold off gradually as obligations under the retirement plan come due and cash is required (unless some sort of retirement fund ponzi scheme makes cash available as needed).

326 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:23pm

re: #305 gmsc

Is that the song about the person who jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge?

That was Billy Joe MacAllister.

327 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:32pm

re: #291 Dianna

Janis said “Bobby.” I think Kristofferson’s Bobby was a girl, but he didn’t like “Bobbie”.

A little like the line “Well, boy, you sure took me for one big ride”, in “Feelin’ Alright”. I assume that Traffic (Dave Mason, specifically) meant for “boy” to be nothing more than an exclamation (rather than an identifier of the gender of the person to whom the song is addressed), but I really don’t know.

328 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:49pm

re: #273 Erik The Red

Can anyone tell my why, when you open a bag of chips to have one or two, one is compelled to finish the whole damn bag?

They are in cahoots with the evil tobacco companies who sold them the formula for their secret super addictive additive……
Do you have an urge to light up after you’ve hoovered up the chips……hmmmmm?
Mwahahahahah……

329 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:49pm

re: #225 Lincolntf

Lots of open territory. Makes the UAV strikes easier and safer for civilians.

330 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:14:54pm

re: #317 midwestgak

Bobby Joe McAllister.

He had a great voice.
/

331 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:02pm

re: #257 joncelli
Electric cars and Noo-clear power plants coast to coast baby!

332 Adrenalyn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:08pm

re: #324 jpkoch

Buick is a prestigious brand in China, and it’ll survive over there even if it dies here.

Yeah, am my mom’s old ‘67 Plymouth Fury, despite sitting on blocks in some abandoned double-wide lot was once a prestigious car. Reminds me of Adam Sandler’s Ode to my Car.

yes, but Toolbooth Willy is some fine Sandler work too

333 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:10pm

re: #276 Noam Chumpski

I have this weird, gut feeling that Ford is going to make a decent profit by the end of 2009.

I’d be more confident in Chrysler’s success if it had filed for bankruptcy than with this move.

I’d rather take my chances with bankruptcy than take tax or union money.

334 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:12pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

He and Pamela suddenly both simultaneously found something better to do that week. Any update on Spencer’s commitment to speak at the White Nationalist college group?

Sounds to me like Spencer and Geller were found out and chickened out of going.

335 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:40pm

re: #324 jpkoch

Buick is a prestigious brand in China, and it’ll survive over there even if it dies here.

Yeah, am my mom’s old ‘67 Plymouth Fury, despite sitting on blocks in some abandoned double-wide lot was once a prestigious car. Reminds me of Adam Sandler’s Ode to my Car.

if it’s a two door and in decent shape it’s worth some good money

336 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:50pm

re: #305 gmsc

Is that the song about the person who jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge?

Right after attending the Harper Valley PTA meeting, I think.

/

337 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:53pm

Kiss Chrysler goodbye, then.

Meanwhile, here’s a car we can really get behind, designed for the modern age, that uses NO gasoline at all! Ford needs to haul this puppy out of mothballs and make it happen; it’s time has come!

338 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:53pm

re: #326 Dianna

That was Billy Joe MacAllister.

…and it was the Tallahatchee bridge, to boot!

339 Jimmah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:55pm

re: #311 Charles

He is carving in stone for all to see, that he’s an idiot - to the applause of his fans.

340 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:15:55pm

re: #237 quickjustice

If GM and Chrysler had filed Chapter 11 a year ago without government interference, their management would have negotiated with their unions, banks, and other creditors. Management would have had the right to reject all of the bad contracts (union, dealership, supplier, etc.). The damages from all those rejections would have ended up as claims against the bankruptcy estate in any event. The companies would have emerged from bankruptcy as leaner, more competitive entities under a confirmed reorganization plan.

The underfunded pension plans would have been taken over by PBGC at taxpayer expense.

Likely outcome: a leaner, more competitive company with private sector management. Instead, we have the U.S. government and Obama’s labor union allies in charge of the reorganized entity.

*Sputter* - But why use a system that has been proven to work? Are you crazy?

341 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:05pm

re: #328 LGoPs

They are in cahoots with the evil tobacco companies who sold them the formula for their secret super addictive additive……
Do you have an urge to light up after you’ve hoovered up the chips……hmmmmm?
Mwahahahahah……

I already have :)

342 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:10pm

re: #326 Dianna

That was Billy Joe MacAllister.

And it was the Tallahatchee Bridge, not Talahassee.

343 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:12pm

why make cars? Just turn all these auto companies into unionized government bureaucracies where employees show up to get their daily pez pellet of free government goodies.

344 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:18pm

re: #230 gmsc

Keep them. Saab, Hummer, Saturn, and Pontiac go on the chopping block, Chevy, GMC, Buick, and Cadillac stay.

345 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:21pm

re: #325 eschew_obfuscation

Unless I’ve misread, it’s the health plan that’s getting the stock. That’s quite different from the pension plan. Am I wrong about this? The health plan needs cash on an ongoing basis to pay medical bills for all retirees. The pension plan has a group of retired workers, and a group of un-retired workers to worry about.

346 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:28pm

re: #317 midwestgak

Bobby Joe McAllister.

Wasn’t it Billy Joe?

347 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:42pm

re: #305 gmsc

Billy Joe McAllister

348 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:47pm

re: #311 Charles

The First song on the album is from a Nazi propaganda film aimed at children…
Quax, der Bruchpilot

On another level this is also an air-propaganda film aimed at the youth: become a pilot for your country.
349 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:54pm

re: #319 capitalist piglet

I am alarmed by the sheer speed of everything that is happening. It’s as though they know they have a deadline - November of 2010 - to do as much damage as possible.

Yeah. Can you imagine the outcry and howls of outrage if a Republican administration was this aggressive in advancing its agenda?

350 Truck Monkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:16:54pm

I wonder which company (GM or Chrysler) will be mandated to make this beauty.

Youtube Video

This is actually a sad day for America. When they go bankrupt under Union “stewardship”, then the taxpayers will be on the hook for the bountiful UAW benefits and retirement. I feel sick. Really.

351 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:17:05pm

re: #317 midwestgak

Bobby Joe McAllister.

Billy Joe, I thought?

I know I always got mildly confused between Ode to Billy Joe and whatever it was about Billy Jack.

352 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:17:10pm

re: #304 zombie
You are one of the Karma rich and now must support the rest of us by sharing your excessive karma total. /

353 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:17:24pm

re: #304 zombie

Woo-hoo!

Click my avatar to see that sometime in the last ten minutes my “karma” points finally surpassed my “number of comments,” meaning I’m in positive territory for the first time! More than 1 per comment.

Of course, there are hundreds of lizards way out in front with higher ratios, but it is refreshing to not be in “karma debt” for the first time ever.

(Us old-timers had years of pre-karma comments to work off!)

I refuse to be baited into karma battles, plus I’m an asshole, so it balances out

354 looking closely  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:17:27pm

re: #304 zombie

Woo-hoo!

Click my avatar to see that sometime in the last ten minutes my “karma” points finally surpassed my “number of comments,” meaning I’m in positive territory for the first time! More than 1 per comment.

Of course, there are hundreds of lizards way out in front with higher ratios, but it is refreshing to not be in “karma debt” for the first time ever.

(Us old-timers had years of pre-karma comments to work off!)


/Careful, or jealous lizards may downding you just for that!

You’re only in “Karma debt” if your total karma is negative.

There is no shame in having less karma than posts

/keeps telling self that.

355 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:17:54pm

re: #346 goddessoftheclassroom

Wasn’t it Billy Joe?

These aren’t the lyrics you’re looking for. Move along.

(please!)

356 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:01pm

re: #327 Occasional Reader

A little like the line “Well, boy, you sure took me for one big ride”, in “Feelin’ Alright”. I assume that Traffic (Dave Mason, specifically) meant for “boy” to be nothing more than an exclamation (rather than an identifier of the gender of the person to whom the song is addressed), but I really don’t know.


Dave was drop dead gorgeous back then

357 midwestgak  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:02pm

re: #322 doppelganglander

I think it was Billy Joe.

You are correct. Billie Joe. I googled and got Bobby, but didn’t read further.

Ode to Billie Joe.

“It was the third of June, another sleepy, dusty Delta day

I was out choppin’ cotton and my brother was balin’ hay

And at dinner time we stopped and walked back to the house to eat

And mama hollered out the back door “y’all remember to wipe your feet”

She said “I heard some news this mornin’ from Choctaw Ridge

Today Billy Joe MacAllister jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge”

Papa said to Mama as he passed around the blackeyed peas
“Billy Joe never had a lick of sense, pass the biscuits, please
There’s five more acres in the lower forty I’ve got to plow”
And Mama said it was shame about Billy Joe, anyhow
Seems like nothin’ ever comes to no good up on Choctaw Ridge
And now Billy Joe MacAllister’s jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge

Brother said he recollected when he and Tom and Billie Joe
Put a frog down my back at the Carroll County picture show
And wasn’t I talkin’ to him after church last Sunday night?
“I’ll have another piece of apple pie, you know it don’t seem right
I saw him at the sawmill yesterday on Choctaw Ridge
And now you tell me Billie Joe’s jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge”

Mama said to me “Child, what’s happened to your appetite?
I’ve been cookin’ all morning and you haven’t touched a single bite
That nice young preacher, Brother Taylor, dropped by today
Said he’d be pleased to have dinner on Sunday, oh, by the way
He said he saw a girl that looked a lot like you up on Choctaw Ridge
And she and Billy Joe was throwin’ somethin’ off the Tallahassee Bridge”

A year has come and gone since we heard the news about Billy Joe
And Brother married Becky Thompson, they bought a store in Tupelo
There was a virus going ‘round, Papa caught it and he died last Spring
And now Mama doesn’t seem to wanna do much of anything
And me, I spend a lot of time pickin’ flowers up on Choctaw Ridge
And drop them into the muddy water off the Tallahassee Bridge

358 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:11pm
359 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:13pm

re: #240 Ojoe

Well maybe if the workers own a majority in the company they will have an interest in seeing it run well, in a leaner way and with better designs, and not just think of the company as a big cow of a job.


And let us remember the hemi

Why would they value something that was given to them?

360 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:27pm

re: #346 goddessoftheclassroom

Wasn’t it Billy Joe?

That’s Billy Joel.

361 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:28pm

re: #327 Occasional Reader

A little like the line “Well, boy, you sure took me for one big ride”, in “Feelin’ Alright”. I assume that Traffic (Dave Mason, specifically) meant for “boy” to be nothing more than an exclamation (rather than an identifier of the gender of the person to whom the song is addressed), but I really don’t know.

But it doesn’t explain The Low Spark of High-Heeled Boys.

Or, at least it doesn’t to me. I have never quite grasped what that song was about.

362 littleoldlady  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:32pm

re: #347 littleoldlady

Billy Joe McAllister

…and in about 47 seconds from now buzzsawmonkey will have changed the words.

;-)

363 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:41pm

re: #351 Dianna

Billy Joe, I thought?

I know I always got mildly confused between Ode to Billy Joe and whatever it was about Billy Jack.

And don’t even try to bring Billy Joel, Freddie Mac and Fleetwood Mac into it…

364 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:18:46pm

PBGC only insures pension plans, not health plans. That’s why Obama is going for nationalized medicine— to get the union retirees on to the government teat as quickly as possible, before the retiree health plans go under.

365 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:19:05pm

re: #357 midwestgak

Tallahatchee Bridge, not Talahassee!

366 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:19:07pm

re: #336 Occasional Reader

Right after attending the Harper Valley PTA meeting, I think.

/

Yep – he had to jump off that bridge to avoid the Convoy.

367 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:19:08pm

re: #357 midwestgak

(groan) I do so hate that song.

368 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:19:31pm

Yeah baby, this is our Prez sucking-up at the FBI.

369 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:19:38pm

re: #336 Occasional Reader

Right after attending the Harper Valley PTA meeting, I think.

/

That would be enough to make anyone jump off a bridge.

370 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:19:41pm

re: #358 taxfreekiller

so? what’s ya expect, free trade?

Heh.

371 looking closely  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:19:43pm

re: #325 eschew_obfuscation

I’m not sure this will prove to be a problem for two reasons.

1) Ownership only translates to control to the extent that the owners control the board of directors. My understanding is that the union will have only one rep on the board.

2) I would guess that the stock held by the union will be sold off gradually as obligations under the retirement plan come due and cash is required (unless some sort of retirement fund ponzi scheme makes cash available as needed).

On 2, maybe, but if the union has to sell its stock to pay its own retirement commitments, who is going to be buying that stock?

372 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:20:13pm

re: #366 gmsc

Yep – he had to jump off that bridge to avoid the Convoy.

But he landed on the Lineman for the County!

373 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:20:20pm

re: #283 Jimmah

It truly is time for the Jews in the UK to leave. I actually never thought I would say that, as I have been to London so often..but it is 8 years since I was last there. I saw nary a mosque anywhere near Bromley where I stay with friends, but now? I hear that they are all over the place along with halal butchers, and women covered from head to toe, with a mask on to complete the image of the 10th Century.

They do not assimilate; they try to force you to join their ‘religion of pieces peace’.

I also have spent time in Hendon.

This breaks my heart.

374 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:20:31pm

re: #366 gmsc

Yep – he had to jump off that bridge to avoid the Convoy.

Do we have to relive the 70’s both culturally AND economically! Criminy—next thing we’ll see is the return of the damned leisure suit.

375 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:20:36pm

re: #367 calcajun

(groan) I do so hate that song.

It’s better than “Here’s your one chance Fancy, don’t let me down!”

Did Bobbie Gentry have any other hits? ISTR she married some big honcho in Las Vegas.

376 Cathypop  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:20:42pm

re: #368 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

Yeah baby, this is our Prez sucking-up at the FBI.


GROSS!

377 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:20:46pm

I dont know about Billy Joe, but I do know Brandy was a fine girl, and a good wife she would be, but alas, my life, my love, and my lady are the sea

378 Jimmah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:00pm

re: #354 looking closely

Negative karma is a bitch.

379 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:01pm

But WHY did Billy Joel McCallister jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge? And why is the singer dropping flowers into the muddy waters of the river below?

380 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:07pm

re: #337 SixDegrees Let us all hope the ford Nucleon does better in a rear crash than the Pinto.

381 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:08pm

re: #324 jpkoch

Buick is a prestigious brand in China, and it’ll survive over there even if it dies here.

Yeah, am my mom’s old ‘67 Plymouth Fury, despite sitting on blocks in some abandoned double-wide lot was once a prestigious car. Reminds me of Adam Sandler’s Ode to my Car.

In China, they build cars like the rear-wheel-drive Park Avenue (on the same Holden-engineered platform as the Pontiac G8), complete with stuff like seat massagers for all four seats, navigation, Bluetooth, LCD video screens, etc.

382 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:20pm

re: #375 Alouette

It’s better than “Here’s your one chance Fancy, don’t let me down!”

Did Bobbie Gentry have any other hits? ISTR she married some big honcho HONCO in Las Vegas.

383 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:26pm

re: #372 Occasional Reader

But he landed on the Lineman for the County!

Witchita?

384 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:32pm

As more and more organized labor unions take over, it means certain death of that industry.

oooo - but then the government can take over.

385 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:39pm

re: #238 haakondahl

Pontiac is going?

GM announced on Monday that they are closing Pontiac by the end of the year.

386 panda  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:46pm

I don’t see this as a bad thing necessarily. If the workers own a majority of the company then they themselves will have to govern from the inside, rather than make demands from the outside. The only problem here is that it is the UAW, not the workers themselves, that will be owning the shares. We will now see for the first time if the UAW really puts the best interests of the workers first or if they use it as a stepping stone to consolidate power and influence for the UAW.

387 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:21:51pm

re: #351 Dianna

Billy Joe, I thought?

I know I always got mildly confused between Ode to Billy Joe and whatever it was about Billy Jack.

Wasn’t there a song called Billy Jack Bitch by Prince? ;-)

388 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:02pm

re: #379 quickjustice

But WHY did Billy Joel McCallister jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge? And why is the singer dropping flowers into the muddy waters of the river below?

Watch the movie and find out!

389 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:04pm

re: #382 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Only Zionist Bigs can be honcos.

390 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:16pm

re: #377 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I dont know about Billy Joe, but I do know Brandy was a fine girl, and a good wife she would be, but alas, my life, my love, and my lady are the sea

Just don’t show us your “raging glory.”

391 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:20pm

OT - FYI
Loaded and running IE8 on all my boxes, 2 - vista, 1 -xp.
Seems to work fine on spy and LGF :)

392 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:20pm

An old man, a boy and donkey were going to town.
The boy rode on the donkey and the old man walked.
As they went along they passed some people
who remarked it was a shame the old man
was walking and the boy was riding.
The man and boy thought maybe the critics were right,
so they changed positions.

Then, later, they passed some people who remarked,
‘What a shame, he makes that little boy walk.’
So they then decided they’d both walk!
Soon they passed some more people who thought
they were stupid to walk when they had a
decent donkey to ride.
So, they both rode the donkey.
Now they passed some people
who shamed them by saying how awful to
put such a load on a poor donkey.
The boy and man figured they were probably right,
so they decide to carry the donkey.
As they crossed the bridge,
they lost their grip on the animal
and he fell into the river and drowned.

The moral of the story?

If you try to please everyone,you might as well…
Kiss your ass goodbye!

393 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:42pm

re: #379 quickjustice

But WHY did Billy Joel McCallister jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge? And why is the singer dropping flowers into the muddy waters of the river below?

I demand a Federal investigation!

394 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:50pm

re: #337 SixDegrees

Kiss Chrysler goodbye, then.

Meanwhile, here’s a car we can really get behind, designed for the modern age, that uses NO gasoline at all! Ford needs to haul this puppy out of mothballs and make it happen; it’s time has come!

There’s a really cool side benefit. No accidents to clean, all the involved cars just vaporize and traffic can keep flowing!

395 midwestgak  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:55pm

re: #365 Alouette

Tallahatchee Bridge, not Talahassee!

Okay. I posted, again in error, what I googled. sorry.

396 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:22:57pm

re: #376 Cathypop

GROSS!

Hey! That was some heavy dink’in goin on.

397 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:07pm

re: #379 quickjustice

But WHY did Billy Joel McCallister jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge? And why is the singer dropping flowers into the muddy waters of the river below?

Knowing the region, I would say beer, a pickup truck and a dare all figure into the story at some point.

398 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:11pm

re: #363 Occasional Reader

And don’t even try to bring Billy Joel, Freddie Mac and Fleetwood Mac into it…

Band name puns? Band aid?

399 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:12pm

re: #368 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

Yeah baby, this is our Prez sucking-up at the FBI.

My goodness, is that his “sex face” or something? Or is he having a stroke?

400 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:14pm

This just in! From the new UAW/Obama design team, Chrysler has a new model due out soon: In showroom near you soon

401 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:17pm
402 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:27pm

re: #99 JammieWearingFool

If the union thugs have a stake in any autu company they won’t be getting my business.

Up next? Union thugs have their eyes on Crippling Toyota and Honda.

403 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:29pm

re: #391 NonNativeTexan

OT - FYI
Loaded and running IE8 on all my boxes, 2 - vista, 1 -xp.
Seems to work fine on spy and LGF :)

Firefox 3.0.10 was released today, as well. And SP2 for Office 2007.

404 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:42pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

Spencer sez….

In reality, I am not going to Cologne for reasons that are not of public concern.

Very curious, isn’t it, that even though he claims the “Pro Koln” group lied that he had confirmed his appearance at their meeting, he’s still defending them?

If someone posted at their website that I was confirmed to appear at their event, and it was untrue, I’d be yelling about it, at them, and on LGF. I’d want absolutely nothing to do with people who were that dishonest.

But Spencer, on the other hand, defends people that he says lied about his confirmation to speak at their meeting.

Very curious.

405 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:23:52pm

re: #386 panda

The labor unions have just been handed the helm of the Titanic AFTER it’s struck the iceberg. The taxpayers have been bailing, but the water level is rising. That’s a good thing?

406 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:05pm

re: #397 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Knowing the region, I would say beer, a pickup truck and a dare all figure into the story at some point.

Hey y’all, hold mah beer an’ watch this!

407 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:23pm

re: #374 calcajun

Do we have to relive the 70’s both culturally AND economically! Criminy—next thing we’ll see is the return of the damned leisure suit.

That would be the perfect outfit for our President. He does enjoy leisure.

408 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:30pm

re: #400 Desert Dog

This just in! From the new UAW/Obama design team, Chrysler has a new model due out soon: In showroom near you soon

LOL!

1/18th scale? That’s a pretty good sized model.

409 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:32pm

re: #387 callahan23

Wasn’t there a song called Billy Jack Bitch by Prince? ;-)

I don’t know - but your link indicates there was. I defer to your superior knowledge of Prince’s compositions.

The last time I even half-liked his stuff was back during Purple Rain. (Stupid movie, some good songs.)

410 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:43pm

re: #405 quickjustice

The labor unions have just been handed the helm of the Titanic AFTER it’s struck the iceberg. The taxpayers have been bailing, but the water level is rising. That’s a good thing?

Obama promised in his campaign that he would lower the sea levels, so we’re good.

411 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:46pm

re: #379 quickjustice

And why is the singer dropping flowers into the muddy waters of the river below?

To deaden the sods as they fall?

412 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:54pm
413 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:24:56pm

re: #403 Ward Cleaver

Yep, above average download size for updates, today.

414 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:25:12pm

Rudy Giuliani is “very disappointed” in Arlen Specter, for whom Giuliani campaigned.

Rudy switched from Democrat to Republican when Reagan became President, on two issues where he felt democrats were WEAK:

Economy
National Security

Giuliani says the GOP is made of a lot of people, including the superconservatives, but on economic issues & national security, he is very comfortable being a Republican.

(With Neil Cavuto on Fox)

415 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:25:29pm

re: #409 Dianna

I don’t know - but your link indicates there was. I defer to your superior knowledge of Prince’s compositions.

The last time I even half-liked his stuff was back during Purple Rain. (Stupid movie, some good songs.)

“Great soundtrack, deeply flawed movie”
Fox Mulder

416 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:25:31pm

re: #404 Charles

It is very curious indeed. Why would someone defend a group that he claims lied about him? That sounds very contradictory, IMHO. Something’s up with Spencer, and it may very well be that you exposed him for what he is doing, and he’s doing some major damage control.

417 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:26:16pm

zombie, Occasional Reader, Adrenalyn - A toast to all who fought the good fight.

littleoldlady - How am I? Well, I’m still kicking, you know? Only more irritable. :)

NY Nana - {wiping away a manly tear} That was really beautiful. I had to add that to my profile.

418 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:26:22pm

re: #266 calcajun

And when all the WWII generation dies, they’ll stop making Buicks. //

China is buying up the Buicks. They’re one of the favorite brands over there.

419 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:26:22pm

re: #402 FrogMarch

Up next? Union thugs have their eyes on Crippling Toyota and Honda.

Card check becomes cross-check.

420 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:26:46pm

Until the morrow lizards. Stay scaly.

421 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:26:48pm

re: #375 Alouette

It’s better than “Here’s your one chance Fancy, don’t let me down!”

Did Bobbie Gentry have any other hits? ISTR she married some big honcho in Las Vegas.

I had a screaming fit over that song. I seldom have a screaming fit over that sort of thing, but it just made my skin crawl.

422 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:27:29pm

re: #304 zombie

Woo-hoo!

Click my avatar to see that sometime in the last ten minutes my “karma” points finally surpassed my “number of comments,” meaning I’m in positive territory for the first time! More than 1 per comment.

Of course, there are hundreds of lizards way out in front with higher ratios, but it is refreshing to not be in “karma debt” for the first time ever.

(Us old-timers had years of pre-karma comments to work off!)

I think you have to ‘weight’ for sheer number of comments in the karma calculation. And in your case having 28K comments and 28K karma is impressive, beyond the mere 1:1 ratio.

423 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:27:38pm

re: #409 Dianna

I don’t know - but your link indicates there was. I defer to your superior knowledge of Prince’s compositions.

The last time I even half-liked his stuff was back during Purple Rain. (Stupid movie, some good songs.)

Being a fan of Who’s on First, I do like the dialogue from Purple Rain:

Youtube Video
424 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:27:43pm

re: #340 debutaunt

*Sputter* - But why use a system that has been proven to work? Are you crazy?

Here’s why - taking their companies into bankruptcy would have been the right thing to do for the company. But CEOs get paid in stock and options; once you enter bankruptcy, a company’s stock becomes worthless. A real captain of industry would have done the right thing for his company; today’s CEO’s do what’s right for them, right now.

Delaying bankruptcy proceedings for several months has given the CEOs the opportunity to exercise options and convert their existing stock quietly and without running afoul of financial regulations regarding large trades by executives. Wagoner, Nardelli and company will walk away from these deals with hundreds of millions extra in their pockets that they wouldn’t have had otherwise.

425 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:08pm
426 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:25pm

re: #417 Thom

{THOM}

427 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:28pm

re: #421 Dianna

I had a screaming fit over that song. I seldom have a screaming fit over that sort of thing, but it just made my skin crawl.

Very, very creepy and disturbing song about child prostitution.

428 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #417 Thom

Thom you have 12,000+ comments and only 39 karma. Is that correct? Just curious.

429 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:45pm

re: #425 buzzsawmonkey

Because they dumped their illegitimate child off the bridge, and he committed suicide because he couldn’t stand the guilt.

Thanks, Captain Bring-Down.

430 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:47pm

re: #405 quickjustice

The labor unions have just been handed the helm of the Titanic AFTER it’s struck the iceberg. The taxpayers have been bailing, but the water level is rising. That’s a good thing?

No problem! The UAW can start building new Amphicars.

Bit of trivia from there? The Quandt family are the majority owners of BMW.

431 abolitionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:51pm

re: #288 Charles

Gotta love that one. No Nazis there at all. Nope. None. Nada.

So why didn’t Spencer go and speak at their meeting?

I left a comment about it, and got a detail wrong. I said the item could be found under the Category CDs / Traditional Songs.
I’ll make the correction here: CDs / Traditional Music.

Hi, Robert.

432 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:28:52pm

re: #276 Noam Chumpski

Good point. Assuming they don’t take bailout money, Ford will be the protest choice — f**k the feds, I’m buying a Ford! And so on. No telling how long that effect will last, though.

433 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:29:12pm

re: #385 CyanSnowHawk

GM announced on Monday that they are closing Pontiac by the end of the year.

Ditto for Saturn, which was once touted as the future of GM.

434 Kenneth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:29:24pm

re: #404 Charles

Both Spencer & Geller exhibit text book examples of splitting.

435 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:29:32pm

re: #124 Honorary Yooper

We have two-they are excellent cars.

436 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:29:47pm

re: #428 KenJen

If you haven’t posted since Charles started the karma system, you’re not going to accrue the points.

437 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:29:52pm

NEW YORK — The Yankees are cutting some premium ticket prices and giving free seats to certain ticket holders in response to empty seats during the first homestand at their fancy new ballpark.

The team on Tuesday slashed the price of 48 first-row Legends Suite season seats on the outer half of the dugouts and photo cages from $2,500 to $1,250, and 68 others in the final three sections down each foul line from $1,000 to $650.

sports.espn.go.com

Well they are not winning and why not just give the seats to the UAW?

438 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:02pm

re: #409 Dianna

I don’t know - but your link indicates there was. I defer to your superior knowledge of Prince’s compositions.

The last time I even half-liked his stuff was back during Purple Rain. (Stupid movie, some good songs.)

The name Billy Jack raised some memories.
Well luckily the likes and dislikes of music are different.
“It’s a matter of taste says the monkey and bites into the soap-bar” German pro-verb.

439 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:03pm

re: #433 lawhawk

Ditto for Saturn, which was once touted as the future of GM.

When will reality close GM, that is the question?

440 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:23pm

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

441 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:26pm

re: #423 gmsc

Being a fan of Who’s on First, I do like the dialogue from Purple Rain:

[Video]

Sorry, I’m at home, so I can’t hear it.

442 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:30pm

re: #399 MrSilverDragon

My goodness, is that his “sex face” or something? Or is he having a stroke?

sex-face? Yikes.

Now, he could’a been on the Throne.

443 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:36pm

re: #379 quickjustice

But WHY did Billy Joel McCallister jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge? And why is the singer dropping flowers into the muddy waters of the river below?

They made a movie, which according to wikipedia or somewhere, had Billy Joe MaCallister have a gay encounter and kill himself in shame.
Personally, I think the lyrics hint that the narrator and he had done something bad (what were they throwing into the river?) and he jumped in due to guilt. The narrator is dropping flowers in the river in memory of her late boyfriend.
I think I would have made a better movie.

444 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:38pm

re: #421 Dianna

I had a screaming fit over that song. I seldom have a screaming fit over that sort of thing, but it just made my skin crawl.

I’m glad I was a kid when those came out, so I didn’t have a clue what the lyrics meant.

445 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:30:40pm

For littleoldlady:

One, Two, Three!
by H. C. Bunner

It was an old, old, old, old lady,
And a boy that was half-past three;
And the way that they played together
Was beautiful to see.

She couldn’t go running or jumping,
And the boy, no more could he;
For he was a thin litte fellow,
With a thin little twisted knee.

They sat in the yellow sunlight,
Out under the maple tree;
And the game that they played I’ll tell you,
Just as it was told to me.

It was Hide-and-Go-Seek they were playing,
Though you’ve never have known it to be—
With an old, old, old, old lady,
And a boy with a twisted knee.

The boy would bend his face down
On his one little sound right knee,
And he’d guess where she was hiding,
In guesses One, Two, Three!

“You are in the china-closet!”
He would cry, and laugh with glee—
It wasn’t the china closet,
But he still had Two and Three.

“You are up in papa’s big bedroom,
In the chest with the queer old key!”
And she said: “You are warm and warmer;
But you’re not quite right,” said she.

“It can’t be the little cupboard
Where mamma’s things used to be—
So it must be the clothes-press, Gran’ma!”
And he found her with his Three.

Then she covered her face with her fingers,
That were wrinkled and white and wee,
And she guessed where the boy was hiding,
With a One and a Two and a Three.

And they never had stirred from their places,
Right under the maple tree—
This old, old, old, old lady
And the boy with the lame little knee—
This dear, dear, dear old lady,
And the boy who was half-past three.

446 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:31:18pm

re: #304 zombie

Woo-hoo!

Click my avatar to see that sometime in the last ten minutes my “karma” points finally surpassed my “number of comments,” meaning I’m in positive territory for the first time! More than 1 per comment.

Of course, there are hundreds of lizards way out in front with higher ratios, but it is refreshing to not be in “karma debt” for the first time ever.

(Us old-timers had years of pre-karma comments to work off!)

Zombie surpasses unity!

447 FrogMarch  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:31:39pm

Ironically, if the UAW was sent packing, and GM and Crystler were allowed to restructure, they would more than likely re-emerge as competative profitable auto makers.

448 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:31:50pm

re: #435 WriterMom

We have two-they are excellent cars.

Multiculti trivia: “Honda” means “slingshot” in Spanish.

Pure concidence, I’m guessing, but it worked out much better than did the Mistubishi “Pajero”, which means “wanker” in much of Latin America.

449 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:00pm

re: #444 Ward Cleaver

I’m glad I was a kid when those came out, so I didn’t have a clue what the lyrics meant.

Songs from my childhood were easier to figure out, like “Baby Got Back.”

450 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:21pm

re: #428 KenJen

Thom you have 12,000+ comments and only 39 karma. Is that correct? Just curious.

That’s why zombie said, “(Us old-timers had years of pre-karma comments to work off!)” Karma is a relatively new thing, and people like Thom had lots of comments from way before.

451 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:22pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

Your car’s brand is likely to stand for your fate. Good luck with that.

452 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:27pm

re: #433 lawhawk

Ditto for Saturn, which was once touted as the future of GM.

Some of the Saturn dealers are hoping to pool their money and spin off the company, and after a couple more years of GM product, become a re-brander (of probably Chinese stuff).

453 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:37pm

re: #324 jpkoch

Buick is a prestigious brand in China, and it’ll survive over there even if it dies here.

Yeah, am my mom’s old ‘67 Plymouth Fury, despite sitting on blocks in some abandoned double-wide lot was once a prestigious car. Reminds me of Adam Sandler’s Ode to my Car.

Is that the Fury III with the 383? Worth some money! Awesome ride.

454 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:47pm

re: #443 Kosh’s Shadow

They made a movie, which according to wikipedia or somewhere, had Billy Joe MaCallister have a gay encounter and kill himself in shame.
Personally, I think the lyrics hint that the narrator and he had done something bad (what were they throwing into the river?) and he jumped in due to guilt. The narrator is dropping flowers in the river in memory of her late boyfriend.
I think I would have made a better movie.

That movie is available in full on YouTube!

455 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:50pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

That’s one way of supporting the USA.//

456 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:32:59pm

re: #414 alegrias

Rudy Giuliani is “very disappointed” in Arlen Specter, for whom Giuliani campaigned.

Rudy switched from Democrat to Republican when Reagan became President, on two issues where he felt democrats were WEAK:

Economy
National Security
Giuliani says the GOP is made of a lot of people, including the superconservatives, but on economic issues & national security, he is very comfortable being a Republican.

(With Neil Cavuto on Fox)

I would add judgment to Democrat weakness. They’ve shown monumentally bad and demonstrably wrong judgement in almost every position they’ve taken during my lifetime from energy to education to misslile defense to……….name it.
They survive solely because the media never takes them to task for their positions.
It must be great to be a Democrat because every fucking day is a new start…….
Being a Democrat means never having to look back and see the carnage in your wake.
/

457 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:33:13pm

re: #425 buzzsawmonkey

Because they dumped their illegitimate child off the bridge, and he committed suicide because he couldn’t stand the guilt.

and they were brother and sister, too.! Can we move along.
This thread is like the mall in “The Blues Brothers”; it’s got everything from nazis and autoworkers to lyrics from bad music from the early 70’s.

458 yochanan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:33:43pm

this reminds me of an old soviet joke a worker goes in to be put on a waiting list to order a car and is told that the day he can come in to order his car is may 1st 2019 so they guy asks is it in the morning or the afternoon? the clerk in the car dealer say why does it matter it is 10 years from now so the guy says well the plumber is coming in the morning.

459 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:33:48pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

Good luck in your new career as a brush guard.

460 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:33:57pm

re: #448 Occasional Reader

Mucho awesome trivia. Reminds me of an article that I saw a little while ago about hand signals in differerent countries. It was hilarious (and sometimes dangerous) to use your own symbols in far away lands and assume they are universally understood to be what you intended.

461 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:34:01pm

re: #449 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Songs from my childhood were easier to figure out, like “Baby Got Back.”

Are you sure about that?

Youtube Video
462 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:34:25pm

re: #444 Ward Cleaver

I’m glad I was a kid when those came out, so I didn’t have a clue what the lyrics meant.

I was in my late 20’s or so. My response to Reba McEntyre was that she made a really evil thing sound attractive.

Of course, I’d lived around prostitutes, and knew exactly how dreadful that life is.

463 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:34:34pm

re: #331 DaddyG

You said it — build nukes, build them as quickly as is consistent with safety, and give me my plug-in car. Preferably with auto pilot so I can catch up on my sleep on the way to see the mother in law.

464 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:34:59pm

re: #428 KenJen

Thom you have 12,000+ comments and only 39 karma. Is that correct? Just curious.

That’s what I’m talking about. In the old days, there was no karma voting. So people like Thom (and us other old-timers) racked up thousands and thousands of karma-less comments before there was any way to vote on them. From his record, it’s obvious that he commented a lot in the old days, but hardly at all in the last year!

465 dingleB  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:02pm

re: #337 SixDegrees

I would file that design under “Engineers Gone Wild”. I have on very good authority that the dirty little secret when employing fuel cell technology to automobiles is the production of highly lethal Hydrazine (think Space Shuttle fuel and satellite shoot down.)

Hydrazine is highly toxic and dangerously unstable, especially in the anhydrous form. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency:

Symptoms of acute (short-term) exposure to high levels of hydrazine may include irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, dizziness, headache, nausea, pulmonary edema, seizures, coma in humans. Acute exposure can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system. The liquid is corrosive and may produce dermatitis from skin contact in humans and animals. Effects to the lungs, liver, spleen, and thyroid have been reported in animals chronically exposed to hydrazine via inhalation. Increased incidences of lung, nasal cavity, and liver tumors have been observed in rodents exposed to hydrazine

466 Jack Burton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:05pm

re: #289 Ward Cleaver

Buick is a prestigious brand in China, and it’ll survive over there even if it dies here.

I’m surprised there isn’t a local knockoff called Bewick, Buwick, or Bulck or something. They have Bucksstar coffee and shoes called “Hike” with the Nike swoosh in China.

467 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:36pm

re: #463 joncelli

You said it — build nukes, build them as quickly as is consistent with safety, and give me my plug-in car. Preferably with auto pilot so I can catch up on my sleep on the way to see the mother in law.

Better yet, get my Mr. Fusion up and working, so I can run my car on a banana peel, beer, and a beer can.

468 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:39pm

re: #464 zombie

Ahh, the good old days.

469 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:46pm

re: #462 Dianna

I was in my late 20’s or so. My response to Reba McEntyre was that she made a really evil thing sound attractive.

Of course, I’d lived around prostitutes, and knew exactly how dreadful that life is.


The movie “Pretty Woman” was realistic, though /

470 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:47pm

re: #421 Dianna

I had a screaming fit over that song. I seldom have a screaming fit over that sort of thing, but it just made my skin crawl.

I guess I’m blissfully ignorant about what this song is?

471 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:51pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

re: #450 wrenchwench

re: #436 lawhawk

Thanks! I had no idea.

472 Jimmah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:35:59pm

Gotta go and prepare for an interview for a new job tomorrow. Have a good one folks.

473 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:36:18pm

re: #428 KenJen

Thom you have 12,000+ comments and only 39 karma. Is that correct? Just curious.

Most comments BK.
(Before Karma).

474 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:36:24pm

re: #422 LGoPs

I think you have to ‘weight’ for sheer number of comments in the karma calculation. And in your case having 28K comments and 28K karma is impressive, beyond the mere 1:1 ratio.

Check out buzzsawmonkey for truly impressive.

475 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:36:45pm

re: #466 ArchangelMichael

I’m surprised there isn’t a local knockoff called Bewick, Buwick, or Bulck or something. They have Bucksstar coffee and shoes called “Hike” with the Nike swoosh in China.

You can find “Spader-Man” toys in the Chinese owned discount store near me.

476 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:36:46pm

re: #337 SixDegrees

Kiss Chrysler goodbye, then.

Meanwhile, here’s a car we can really get behind, designed for the modern age, that uses NO gasoline at all! Ford needs to haul this puppy out of mothballs and make it happen; it’s time has come!

Plus, with the Nucleon, you don’t need lights - the whole thing glows!

477 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:36:49pm

...

478 Truck Monkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:11pm

re: #448 Occasional Reader

Multiculti trivia: “Honda” means “slingshot” in Spanish.

Pure concidence, I’m guessing, but it worked out much better than did the Mistubishi “Pajero”, which means “wanker” in much of Latin America.

Nova. which was test marketed in Mexico, means “won’t go” in espanol! They wondered why it wasn’t selling. True story.

479 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:17pm

re: #359 debutaunt

You have a point to the extent that they are stupid.

480 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:31pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

Nice knowin’ ya. Good luck on becoming one with your car—if not the universe.

481 DeafDog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:35pm

re: #276 Noam Chumpski

I have this weird, gut feeling that Ford is going to make a decent profit by the end of 2009.

I’d be more confident in Chrysler’s success if it had filed for bankruptcy than with this move.


Not a weird feeling at all. The CEO basically said that when Ford released their 1st Q earnings (er, I mean loss).

Think, too, what will happen in 2010 and beyond. Chrysler will be owned by the UAW. GM will be owned by Team Obama. If you are a lean and mean auto exec, would you want to work for them?

I’ll put odds that Ford will be cleaning their clocks.

482 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:43pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

Nice to know you, to whom do we send condolences?

483 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:45pm

re: #470 Occasional Reader

I guess I’m blissfully ignorant about what this song is?

Be ignorant about it no longer!

Youtube Video
484 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:47pm

re: #473 jcm

I think zulubaby and I were the blabbermouth twins BK.

485 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:37:58pm

re: #474 zombie

Check out buzzsawmonkey for truly impressive.


Not fair, buzzsawmonkey is an evolutionary anomaly.

486 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:38:03pm

re: #361 Dianna

Capitalism, I think. Or at least business.

487 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:38:17pm

The Omni Cancun Hotel & Villa is “FREE” of flu? Yeah like they are telling the truth to FOX on LIVE TV.

488 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:38:33pm

re: #469 NonNativeTexan

The movie “Pretty Woman” was realistic, though /

I never saw it, so I can’t comment.

489 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:38:51pm

re: #480 calcajun

re: #482 jcm

GMTA!

490 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:01pm

re: #465 dingleB

I would file that design under “Engineers Gone Wild”. I have on very good authority that the dirty little secret when employing fuel cell technology to automobiles is the production of highly lethal Hydrazine (think Space Shuttle fuel and satellite shoot down.)

Hydrazine is highly toxic and dangerously unstable, especially in the anhydrous form. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency:

Symptoms of acute (short-term) exposure to high levels of hydrazine may include irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, dizziness, headache, nausea, pulmonary edema, seizures, coma in humans. Acute exposure can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system. The liquid is corrosive and may produce dermatitis from skin contact in humans and animals. Effects to the lungs, liver, spleen, and thyroid have been reported in animals chronically exposed to hydrazine via inhalation. Increased incidences of lung, nasal cavity, and liver tumors have been observed in rodents exposed to hydrazine

Gotta love this line from the article:

The main dangers of the car would be the radiation, nuclear waste and a possibility of a small nuclear meltdown.

Hardly valid concerns, in my opinion.

491 shotgun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:04pm

Imagine how much tax money will get pumped into a UAW owned company,, (obviously to big to fail), none of these big (mostly Dem employee) companies will be allowed to fail. Of course the GOP was in charge, theoretically, when this bad precedent began.

492 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:05pm

re: #487 Nevergiveup

The Omni Cancun Hotel & Villa is “FREE” of flu? Yeah like they are telling the truth to FOX on LIVE TV.

You misheard them - you can get the flu for free with a night’s stay.

493 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:07pm

re: #481 DeafDog

Not a weird feeling at all. The CEO basically said that when Ford released their 1st Q earnings (er, I mean loss).

Think, too, what will happen in 2010 and beyond. Chrysler will be owned by the UAW. GM will be owned by Team Obama. If you are a lean and mean auto exec, would you want to work for them?

I’ll put odds that Ford will be cleaning their clocks.

I have to admit I was dubious about Ford’s hiring Alan Mullally, but he’s proved me wrong.

494 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:11pm

re: #367 calcajun

(groan) I do so hate that song.

Party pooper! ;)

/Just for you:

Youtube Video
495 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:21pm

re: #488 Dianna

I never saw it, so I can’t comment.

A hooker marries the riches man in the world and they all live happily ever after?

496 Thom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:22pm

428 KenJen

That is correct. There are various reasons for this: 1) I totally suck; b) about 12100 of those comments were before the lords of karma took over here; iii) and then there’s that suckiness thing. And the flatulence.

497 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:23pm

re: #445 gmsc Beautiful. Sad. Brings up some strong tender feelings for my departed loved one’s. Thank you for posting that (even though I wasn’t the audience).

498 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:36pm

re: #472 Jimmah

Gotta go and prepare for an interview for a new job tomorrow. Have a good one folks.

Best of luck to you on that interview.

499 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:41pm

re: #470 Occasional Reader

I guess I’m blissfully ignorant about what this song is?

Try looking for Reba McIntyre, Fancy. I won’t link it.

It was a huge hit in the mid-90’s on “Young Country” stations.

500 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:55pm

re: #483 gmsc

Be ignorant about it no longer!


[Video]

You know, we call that intentional infliction of emotional distress.

501 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:39:58pm

re: #464 zombie

So people like Thom (and us other old-timers) racked up thousands and thousands of karma-less comments

And then we’d have to lick the thread clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, posted twenty-four hours a day for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, Charles would slice us in two with a bread knife. And we were happy!

502 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:40:05pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

That strikes me as a good way to increase the probability that you get shot at.

503 SecondComing  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:40:06pm

re: #50 zombie

Exactly. Which means this is only leading in one possible direction: the UAW will get ownership of ALL American auto-makers, so there isn’t any unfairness in the competition.

Somebody crank that Internationale up to 11.

heh, remember this:littlegreenfootballs.com

“That band, The Decemberists, is known for using the National Anthem of the Soviet Union as an introduction at their concerts.”

504 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:40:07pm

re: #483 gmsc

Be ignorant about it no longer!


[Video]

re: #494 NY Nana

Party pooper! ;)

/Just for you:


[Video]

GMTA!

505 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:40:24pm

re: #378 Jimmah

Negative karma is a bitch.

/Harrumph…stop blaming the females.

506 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:41:01pm

re: #494 NY Nana

AHHH! my ears! it burns! it burns!//

507 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:41:08pm

re: #478 Truck Monkey

Nova. which was test marketed in Mexico, means “won’t go” in espanol! They wondered why it wasn’t selling. True story.

Yes, but the word also means… well, “nova” in Spanish (as in, exploding star), so I’ve always wondered about that story.

508 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:41:20pm
509 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:41:22pm

re: #486 joncelli

Capitalism, I think. Or at least business.

Really.

510 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:41:49pm

re: #508 taxfreekiller

tfk pot stirring

are lgf’s posters sort of a union of posters?

standing way back

I’m a scab.

511 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:41:58pm

re: #472 Jimmah

Gotta go and prepare for an interview for a new job tomorrow. Have a good one folks.

You have the Lizard Army praying for you! Good luck!

512 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:13pm

re: #499 Dianna

Try looking for Reba McIntyre, Fancy. I won’t link it.

It was a huge hit in the mid-90’s on “Young Country” stations.

Went to an Alabama concert in the late 70s. An unknown opened
for them , “Reba”. My wife and I looked at each other
and said, man that sound is coming from that tiny body!
She was great.

513 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:28pm

re: #500 calcajun

You know, we call that intentional infliction of emotional distress.

I’ll make it up to you:

Youtube Video
514 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:44pm

re: #495 Nevergiveup

A hooker marries the riches man in the world and they all live happily ever after?

Right.

Clearly, this was a comedy?

515 Last Mohican  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:45pm

re: #472 Jimmah

Gotta go and prepare for an interview for a new job tomorrow. Have a good one folks.

Good luck!

516 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:46pm

re: #499 Dianna

Try looking for Reba McIntyre, Fancy. I won’t link it.

It was a huge hit in the mid-90’s on “Young Country” stations.

My favorite Country music comes from Brazil.

517 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:48pm

re: #463 joncelli

You said it — build nukes, build them as quickly as is consistent with safety, and give me my plug-in car. Preferably with auto pilot so I can catch up on my sleep on the way to see the mother in law.

Where is my flying car?! Its freaking 2009 bro! ;-)

518 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:56pm

re: #510 wrenchwench

I’m a scab.

That’s why we’re always picking on you.

519 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:42:57pm

re: #510 wrenchwench

I’m a scab.

I’m still on probation then

520 KenJen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:07pm

re: #496 Thom

428 KenJen

That is correct. There are various reasons for this: 1) I totally suck; b) about 12100 of those comments were before the lords of karma took over here; iii) and then there’s that suckiness thing. And the flatulence.

You don’t suck and it’s wonderful your bi-lingual. What languages are you flatulence in?

521 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:09pm
522 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:24pm
523 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:24pm

OT: Bret Stephens did a nothing-new-but-rather-good piece about the relative outrage on behalf of Palestinians and Chechens.

524 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:28pm

re: #465 dingleB

I would file that design under “Engineers Gone Wild”. I have on very good authority that the dirty little secret when employing fuel cell technology to automobiles is the production of highly lethal Hydrazine (think Space Shuttle fuel and satellite shoot down.)

Hydrazine is highly toxic and dangerously unstable, especially in the anhydrous form. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency:

Symptoms of acute (short-term) exposure to high levels of hydrazine may include irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, dizziness, headache, nausea, pulmonary edema, seizures, coma in humans. Acute exposure can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system. The liquid is corrosive and may produce dermatitis from skin contact in humans and animals. Effects to the lungs, liver, spleen, and thyroid have been reported in animals chronically exposed to hydrazine via inhalation. Increased incidences of lung, nasal cavity, and liver tumors have been observed in rodents exposed to hydrazine

Hydrazine is a type of rocket fuel, and isn’t used in fuel cells.
Fuel cells use hydrogen. Right now, hydrogen comes from natural gas, at some expense and waste of the energy content.
Hydrogen from water is an energy storage medium, and would require a massive investment in nuclear power plants to electrolyze sea water to make it economical.

525 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:31pm

re: #506 calcajun

I’m sorry. *Snuffle* *Snuffle*.

526 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:40pm

OT,

3 Confirmed cases of swine flu in NZ, all those testing Flu strainA positive now suspect

Bugger, time to get ready to close down and shut the doors.

527 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:43:58pm

re: #501 Occasional Reader

And then we’d have to lick the thread clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, posted twenty-four hours a day for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, Charles would slice us in two with a bread knife. And we were happy!

And you tell the young lizards of today that, and they won’t believe you.

528 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:44:03pm

re: #495 Nevergiveup

A hooker marries the riches man in the world and they all live happily ever after?

I remember reading somewhere that Pretty Woman was, allegedly, Yassir Arafat’s favorite movie.

(I’m not kidding.)

529 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:44:08pm

re: #510 wrenchwench

I’m a scab.

Work for the Union Label (and pass the Cheetos while you’re at it)

530 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:44:12pm

re: #474 zombie

Check out buzzsawmonkey for truly impressive.

I know. I want to be like him when I grow up.
No sarc intended.
:)

531 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:44:29pm

re: #525 NY Nana

sadist/

532 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:44:37pm
533 yochanan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:44:44pm

re: #501 Occasional Reader

in the old days we had to walk 5 miles to school in 3 feet of snow and it was up hill both ways.

534 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:45:10pm

re: #528 Occasional Reader

and Hitler liked musicals, too.

535 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:45:12pm

re: #526 A Kiwi Infidel

OT,

3 Confirmed cases of swine flu in NZ, all those testing Flu strainA positive now suspect

Bugger, time to get ready to close down and shut the doors.

If you start oinking, get to the doctor, quick.

536 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:45:15pm

re: #508 taxfreekiller

tfk pot stirring

are lgf’s posters sort of a union of posters?

standing way back

We can’t get people to submit their expense reports for their zionist checks! How would we get them to pay dues and carry cards?

537 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:45:31pm

re: #501 Occasional Reader

ROFL.

538 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:45:52pm

re: #528 Occasional Reader

I remember reading somewhere that Pretty Woman was, allegedly, Yassir Arafat’s favorite movie.

(I’m not kidding.)

yeah but I hear that was because he was hot for the limo driver?

539 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:45:53pm

re: #520 KenJen
Flatulance is the universal language. Well that and country western ballads, but who can tell the difference?

540 dingleB  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:45:55pm

re: #490 SixDegrees

Yeah, it’s sorta like some marketing knuckle heads that I work with that would try to sell a car “that is guaranteed never to rust” the response of a good engineer is to design the car out of solid gold.

541 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:04pm

This move by the UAW is an attempt from the Obama administration to scare the American people. The Obama administration has pictures of these meetings, which they won’t release, but, I have it on good intel from Spartacus50 that this is a warning shot across the bow to ALL Americans who work in private industries.

I want to see the pictures. Waaaaaaaa……
/

542 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:05pm

re: #514 Dianna

Oh no…a romance!

/thunk

543 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:09pm

re: #512 NonNativeTexan

Went to an Alabama concert in the late 70s. An unknown opened
for them , “Reba”. My wife and I looked at each other
and said, man that sound is coming from that tiny body!
She was great.

Cool for you, but that song was my first encounter with her, and I’ve never, ever forgiven it.

544 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:18pm

re: #516 debutaunt

My favorite Country music comes from Brazil.

Eu sou um homem-linha para o condado…

545 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:18pm

re: #528 Occasional Reader

I remember reading somewhere that Pretty Woman was, allegedly, Yassir Arafat’s favorite movie.

(I’m not kidding.)

Funny, I’d think he’d prefer “Pretty Boy” or “Gorgeous Goat”

546 debutaunt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:25pm

re: #528 Occasional Reader

I remember reading somewhere that Pretty Woman was, allegedly, Yassir Arafat’s favorite movie.

(I’m not kidding.)

He was a Gere man?

547 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:27pm
548 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:34pm

re: #529 Desert Dog

Work for the Union Label (and pass the Cheetos while you’re at it)

Remember those ILGWU commercials, with the ladies singing, “Look for, the union label”?

549 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:39pm

re: #528 Occasional Reader

You’re wrong. I think it was Pretty Man.

550 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:46:56pm

re: #532 taxfreekiller

avanti is our local dis-organizer

ROFLMAO

551 jorline  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:00pm

re: #533 yochanan

in the old days we had to walk 5 miles to school in 3 feet of snow and it was up hill both ways.

That’s physically impossible….it couldn’t have been any deeper than two feet.
/

552 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:02pm

Gerard Vanderleun at American Digest just linked to the post about Joel Walker running for the school board, with this title: “SAD: Devolution over Evolution continues at Little Green Footballs.”

Vanderleun a creationist? Now, that’s sad.

553 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:04pm

re: #541 Walter L. Newton

This move by the UAW is an attempt from the Obama administration to scare the American people. The Obama administration has pictures of these meetings, which they won’t release, but, I have it on good intel from Spartacus50 that this is a warning shot across the bow to ALL Americans who work in private industries.

I want to see the pictures. Waaaaaaaa……
/

So yesterday’s low fly-by over New York was the first step in their campaign to scare Americans?

554 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:04pm

re: #545 Kosh’s Shadow

Pretty Bubba?

555 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:11pm

re: #528 Occasional Reader

I remember reading somewhere that Pretty Woman was, allegedly, Yassir Arafat’s favorite movie.

(I’m not kidding.)

Well, Saddam wrote romance novels…

556 looking closely  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:14pm

re: #514 Dianna

Right.

Clearly, this was a comedy?

A Romantic Comedy to be precise.

557 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:51pm

re: #534 calcajun

and Hitler liked musicals, too.


He frequented Broadway with Darwin in the early days. /

558 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:47:54pm

re: #554 WriterMom

Pretty Bubba?

Purty Mouth?

559 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:02pm
560 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:04pm

re: #555 SanFranciscoZionist

And look where he ended up…

561 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:05pm

re: #553 gmsc

So yesterday’s low fly-by over New York was the first step in their campaign to scare Americans?

This administration has been scaring me even before Obama was elected.

562 Killian Bundy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:06pm

Duka brothers get life terms for plotting Fort Dix attack

Three of the five men convicted of plotting an armed attack on Fort Dix were sentenced to life in prison today.

The Duka brothers, Eljvir, Dritan and Shain, maintained their innocence before sentencing in federal court in Camden. Defendants Mohamad Shnewer and Serdar Tatar are scheduled for sentencing tomorrow.

The men, all foreign-born Muslims raised primarily in Cherry Hill, were acquitted after an eight-week trial of attempted murder, but convicted on conspiracy charges.

Dritan and Shain Duka were sentenced to an additional 30 years apiece on a gun charge.

/no more jihad for them

563 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:19pm

re: #556 looking closely

A Romantic Comedy to be precise.

I was rooting for George so I thought it was a tragedy.

564 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:20pm
565 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:22pm

re: #558 Ward Cleaver

You’re sick.

I like it!

566 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:29pm

re: #504 gmsc

But if I had a great mind, I would have seen yours!

/Maybe I need my eyes checked?

567 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:29pm

re: #546 debutaunt

He was a Gere man?

More likely a hamster man.

568 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:47pm

re: #562 Killian Bundy

Duka brothers get life terms for plotting Fort Dix attack

/no more jihad for them

They’ll continue it in jail, to a more friendly crowd.

569 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:49pm

re: #465 dingleB

I would file that design under “Engineers Gone Wild”. I have on very good authority that the dirty little secret when employing fuel cell technology to automobiles is the production of highly lethal Hydrazine (think Space Shuttle fuel and satellite shoot down.)

Where exactly, is the hydrazine produced? Is it in the production of the fuel cell, or a byproduct of the use of the fuel cell? Using a fuel cell is only supposed to produce water.

570 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:52pm

re: #556 looking closely

A Romantic Comedy to be precise.

I’m a guy – the only poor-hooker-gets-rewarded-and-saved-by-rich-man movie I like is Trading Places.

571 Last Mohican  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:52pm

re: #553 gmsc

So yesterday’s low fly-by over New York was the first step in their campaign to scare Americans?

Oh no, not that again…

572 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:59pm

re: #542 WriterMom

Oh no…a romance!

/thunk

Sorry. I gather someone handsome was in it? I’m glad you enjoyed it, and other people liked it.

573 victor_yugo  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:48:59pm

Obviously, none of them has ever read Ayn Rand.

574 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:02pm

re: #552 Charles

Gerard Vanderleun at American Digest just linked to the post about Joel Walker running for the school board, with this title: “SAD: Devolution over Evolution continues at Little Green Footballs.”

Vanderleun a creationist? Now, that’s sad.

That doesn’t make me as sad as the previous post makes me happy.

575 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:04pm

re: #567 Ben Hur

Mouse you bring that up?

576 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:06pm

re: #535 Ward Cleaver

If you start oinking, get to the doctor, quick.


Therein lies the problem, if one has flu symptons and goes to the Doctor and actually has the swine flu, they spread it around all they contact. There has, at least, been a positive response from those who were on the flights (2) in that they are are voluntarily quarantining themselves. Not good tho, I fear the cat has got out of the bag!

577 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:16pm

re: #553 gmsc

So yesterday’s low fly-by over New York was the first step in their campaign to scare Americans?

You had to be on another thread this morning. This little comment by me will only mean something to someone who heard the rant by Spartacus50 this morning. He said the fly over of New York was done on purpose by the Obama administration to scare Americans and let them know how strong the Air Force was.

Oh, and Spartacus50 wants to see the pcitures.

578 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:19pm

re: #541 Walter L. Newton

This move by the UAW is an attempt from the Obama administration to scare the American people. The Obama administration has pictures of these meetings, which they won’t release, but, I have it on good intel from Spartacus50 that this is a warning shot across the bow to ALL Americans who work in private industries.

I want to see the pictures. Waaaaaaaa……
/

They are still at the CVS along with the Air Force One shots. Come back Wednesday for your proofs. /

579 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:30pm
580 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:38pm

re: #572 Dianna

Pretty Woman? Yuck. I was trying to be sarcastic…I guess I flopped.

581 abolitionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:46pm

re: #555 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Saddam wrote romance novels…

A favorite song: Strangers in the Night.

582 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:48pm

re: #522 buzzsawmonkey

It’ll never get better if you picket.

What’ll help that is *Gauze*

583 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:49:58pm

re: #555 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Saddam wrote romance novels…

Boy meets girl
Parents refuse boy
Boy kills girl’s parents
Boy takes girl
Boy lives happily ever after he gets tired of her
[rest deleted out of respect for some people here]

584 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:13pm

re: #541 Walter L. Newton

I want to see the pictures. Waaaaaaaa……/

“Which one is…Spartacus?” -Crassus.


Let it go, Walter. It’s Chinatown./

585 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:13pm

re: #530 LGoPs

I know. I want to be like him when I grow up.
No sarc intended.
:)

Buzzsawmonkey rulez.
Agreed 100%

How about some Karma rating from Sharmuta?

586 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:20pm

re: #577 Walter L. Newton

You had to be on another thread this morning. This little comment by me will only mean something to someone who heard the rant by Spartacus50 this morning. He said the fly over of New York was done on purpose by the Obama administration to scare Americans and let them know how strong the Air Force was.

Oh, and Spartacus50 wants to see the pcitures.

I’m NOT Spartacus! He is —————> That guy over there!

587 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:22pm

re: #539 DaddyG

Flatulance is the universal language. Well that and country western ballads, but who can tell the difference?


That, and the laugh, but you dont laugh at country and western ballards

588 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:34pm

re: #562 Killian Bundy

Duka brothers get life terms for plotting Fort Dix attack

/no more jihad for them

No Jihad, no white raisins.
Say hello to Bubba.

589 dhg4  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:37pm

I love Taranto’s take:

‘I Hate My Boss.’ ‘Who Do You Work For?’ ‘I’m Self-Employed’

590 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:39pm
591 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:50:43pm

re: #556 looking closely

A Romantic Comedy to be precise.

I’m not clicking! I will resist!

592 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:00pm

re: #577 Walter L. Newton

He said the fly over of New York was done on purpose by the Obama administration to scare Americans and let them know how strong the Air Force was.

Right, since those restive Manhattanites have been on the verge of rising up against Obama…

/sheesh

593 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:08pm

re: #509 Dianna

That was a semi-wild-ass guess. Here are the lyrics so you can judge for yourself:

ARTIST: Traffic
TITLE: Low Spark of High Heeled Boys
Lyrics and Chords


If you see something that looks like a star
And it’s shooting up out of the ground
And your head is spinning from a loud guitar
And you just can’t escape from the sound
Don’t worry too much, it’ll happen to you
We were children once, playing with toys

/ Dm7 - Em7 - / / Dm7 - Em7 - Dm7 - Em7 - / :

And the thing that you’re hearing is only the sound
Of the low spark of high-heeled boys

/ D - A - / C G F - / ( D7 - G D7 / / )

{Refrain}
The percentage you’re paying is too high-priced
While you’re living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he’s made on your dreams
But today you just read that the man was shot dead
By a gun that didn’t make any noise
But it wasn’t the bullet that laid him to rest
Was the low spark of high-heeled boys

/ D7 - G D7 / / / F C G - / / / D - A - / C G F - /

If you had just a minute to breathe
And they granted you one final wish
Would you ask for something like another chance
Or something similar as this
Don’t worry too much, it’ll happen to you
As sure as your sorrows or joys

And the thing that disturbs you is only the sound
Of the low spark of high-heeled boys

{Refrain}

High-heeled boys

If I gave you everything that I owned
And asked for nothing in return
Would you do the same for me as I would for you
Or take me for a ride
And strip me of everything, including my pride
But spirit is something that no one destroys

And the sound that I’m hearing is only the sound
Of the low spark of high-heeled boys
Heeled boys

594 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:13pm

re: #585 callahan23

She’s a newbie, give her sometime to get her sea legs. We all have high hopes for her. One day, she will fit in.

////////////////////

595 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:21pm

re: #580 WriterMom

Pretty Woman? Yuck. I was trying to be sarcastic…I guess I flopped.

So did Julia Roberts but that’s nothing a good plastic surgeon can’t fix. /

596 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:26pm

re: #583 Kosh’s Shadow

Boy takes second and third wives
Village medicine person cuts out wive’s clitori
Boy lives happily ever after

597 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:30pm

re: #575 WriterMom

Mouse you bring that up?


That sucked.

598 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:36pm

re: #592 Occasional Reader

Right, since those restive Manhattanites have been on the verge of rising up against Obama…

/sheesh

You’ve been to the meetings?
/

599 jorline  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:38pm

re: #552 Charles

Gerard Vanderleun at American Digest just linked to the post about Joel Walker running for the school board, with this title: “SAD: Devolution over Evolution continues at Little Green Footballs.”

Vanderleun a creationist? Now, that’s sad.

Gerard Van der Leun was born in Los Angeles in December 1945. He studied at the University of California, Berkeley. His career has been as a writer and editor of books and magazines. He has been the Senior Editor and Director of Trade Paperback Publishing for Houghton Mifflin, and has held numerous positions at Penthouse Magazine, from Publisher/Managing Director of the European and English Editions, to Senior Editor and Vice-President of Internet Operations. Gerard’s articles have appeared in several magazines including Time, Omni and Penthouse. He has been a literary agent and book packager, and he is the author of Rules of the Net: Online Operating Instructions for Human Beings (Hyperion), and The Quotable Sherlock Holmes (Random). He has also worked as publications director for the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and as the Drama and Literature Director for KPFA-FM (Pacifica). Gerard has one daughter, Justine, an editor at Oprah Magazine. He has been online since 1988, and blogs at American Digest.

600 yochanan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:45pm

re: #512 NonNativeTexan

the last concert i went to was a ‘reba’ one
i had what i thought were good seats in the 10th row but i went were the sets were and found out they had made a mistake and had put the sound system at that location but the usher was there giveing out new tickets and since the concert was sold out i wondered were I was going to be.

so they sent us out to the other side of the hall and we were told to show the tickets to the usher there well so i did and he said go to the next usher who said go farther down and when i got to the third usher he walked me to my seat it was front row center I was close enough to see her, touch and smell her nice perfume.

601 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:51:55pm

re: #567 Ben Hur

More likely a hamster man.

Gerbil, dear. There’s even a song about it.

602 drogheda  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:52:05pm

re: #569 CyanSnowHawk

Where exactly, is the hydrazine produced? Is it in the production of the fuel cell, or a byproduct of the use of the fuel cell? Using a fuel cell is only supposed to produce water.

Well a hydrogen fuel cell would only produce water. There are other varieties of fuel cells though.

603 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:52:26pm

re: #592 Occasional Reader

Yes, nothing says ‘show of strength’ like your President’s airplane re-enacting scenes from 9/11.

604 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:52:36pm

re: #517 DaddyG

In all seriousness, the fact that we’re not building nukes as fast as possible is incomprehensible to me.

605 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:52:48pm

re: #577 Walter L. Newton

You had to be on another thread this morning. This little comment by me will only mean something to someone who heard the rant by Spartacus50 this morning. He said the fly over of New York was done on purpose by the Obama administration to scare Americans and let them know how strong the Air Force was.

Oh, and Spartacus50 wants to see the pcitures.

If they wanted to scare folks, a wing of bombers with bomb bay doors open…….

606 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:52:54pm

re: #587 A Kiwi Infidel

That, and the laugh, but you dont laugh at country and western ballards

Steel guitar - check
Dog died - check
Pickup broke down - check
wife and/or girlfriend left me for another man - check

We have another hit!

607 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:53:09pm

re: #560 WriterMom

And look where he ended up…

Well, yes, although I think that had more to do with his political career than his artistic one.

There’s this sappy romantic streak in Arab culture, that’s all. I can see Arafat finding Pretty Woman charming.

608 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:53:10pm

re: #567 Ben Hur

More likely a hamster de-clawed gerbel man.

fixed

609 gmsc  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:53:24pm

re: #605 jcm

If they wanted to scare folks, a wing of bombers with bomb bay Mumbai doors open…….

FTFY

610 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:53:29pm

re: #597 Ben Hur

That bad?

611 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:53:45pm

re: #599 jorline

Why is is all these racist, fascists and creationist have these nordic names like Gerard Van der Leun. Really, pay close attention to the names the next time you read an article on one of these topics.

612 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:53:56pm

re: #607 SanFranciscoZionist

Sappy romance, like honour killings-yes?

613 HoosierHoops  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:53:58pm

re: #440 spacejesus

im going to make it my goal today to cut off every chevy pickup i see on the freeway with my kia on my way home

Well well..If it isn’t Mr. Socrates..I’ve got a question for you..If you only post every so often and that’s the best you got…Can you really consider yourself a genius? You are not that smart or witty..
I’ve seen you be a jerk to lizards here when you post…You’ll never receive no quarter from me here..EVER!
Got something else to say SpaceJesus? The Hoopster is on line one waiting..

614 Last Mohican  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:10pm

re: #569 CyanSnowHawk

Where exactly, is the hydrazine produced? Is it in the production of the fuel cell, or a byproduct of the use of the fuel cell? Using a fuel cell is only supposed to produce water.

Struck me as odd, too. Here, allow me to get that google for you.
From wikipedia:

The Italian catalyst manufacturer Acta has proposed using hydrazine as an alternative to hydrogen in fuel cells. The chief benefit of using hydrazine is that it can produce over 200 mW/cm2 more than a similar hydrogen cell without the need to use expensive platinum catalysts. As the fuel is liquid at room temperature, it can be handled and stored more easily than hydrogen. By storing the hydrazine in a tank full of a double-bonded carbon-oxygen carbonyl, the fuel reacts and forms a safe solid called hydrazone. By then flushing the tank with warm water, the liquid hydrazine hydrate is released. Hydrazine has a higher electromotive force of 1.56 V compared to 1.23 V for hydrogen. Hydrazine breaks down in the cell to form nitrogen and hydrogen which bonds with oxygen, releasing water.[22] Hydrazine was used in fuel cells manufactured by Allis-Chalmers Corp., including some that provided electric power in space satellites in the 1960s.

615 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:15pm
616 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:15pm

re: #562 Killian Bundy

Duka brothers get life terms for plotting Fort Dix attack


/no more jihad for them

Wouldn’t it be perfect if their name was Durka? Which is how I first read it?

617 Killian Bundy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:31pm

re: #601 Dianna

Gerbil, dear. There’s even a song about it.

www.youtube.com:80

/why yes, yes there is a song about it

618 BingoBunny  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:34pm

Noob at this .. but if they drop all these brands.. can’t someone come in a make a offer for them.. restart production.. how many years was American Indian Motorcycles outa business.

619 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:45pm

re: #605 jcm

If they wanted to scare folks, a wing of bombers with bomb bay doors open…….

If they wanted to scare folks, a video of Obama singing with a rap group would be enough.

620 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:47pm

re: #501 Occasional Reader

And then we’d have to lick the thread clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, posted twenty-four hours a day for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, Charles would slice us in two with a bread knife. And we were happy!

And we liked it!

Youtube Video
621 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:50pm

re: #601 Dianna

re: #608 A Kiwi Infidel

Aha! Thanks.

Detailed knowledge from Kiwi!

622 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:54:58pm

re: #609 gmsc

FTFY

Not bad……that was a pretty good pun jab there……..
:)

623 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:55:16pm

re: #569 CyanSnowHawk

Where exactly, is the hydrazine produced? Is it in the production of the fuel cell, or a byproduct of the use of the fuel cell? Using a fuel cell is only supposed to produce water.

Fuel cells run on hydrogen, not hydrazine. Big difference.

624 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:55:41pm

re: #593 joncelli

I fear that, no matter how much I like the tune, reading the lyrics has only deepened my bafflement.

Oh, well.

625 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:55:52pm

re: #609 gmsc

FTFY

Dropping tandoori chicken?

626 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:55:57pm

re: #610 WriterMom

That bad?

Staaaaaaam!

“Sucked,” get it?!?!?

OK.

Mine was worse.

627 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:56:05pm

re: #613 HoosierHoops

Well well..If it isn’t Mr. Socrates..I’ve got a question for you..If you only post every so often and that’s the best you got…Can you really consider yourself a genius? You are not that smart or witty..
I’ve seen you be a jerk to lizards here when you post…You’ll never receive no quarter from me here..EVER!
Got something else to say SpaceJesus? The Hoopster is on line one waiting..

SpaceJesus is like Avanti on drugs. And their karma is close too!

628 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:57:19pm

re: #605 jcm

If they wanted to scare folks, a wing of bombers with bomb bay doors open…….

Nah. That will get people to look up.

629 haakondahl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:57:20pm

re: #541 Walter L. Newton

This move by the UAW is an attempt from the Obama administration to scare the American people. The Obama administration has pictures of these meetings, which they won’t release, but, I have it on good intel from Spartacus50 that this is a warning shot across the bow to ALL Americans who work in private industries.

I want to see the pictures. Waaaaaaaa……
/

I want to know how they got that F-16 into the boardroom.

630 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:57:24pm

re: #626 Ben Hur

Ya charman-oy va voy/whywhywhywhy…

631 Rancher  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:58:52pm

Rush predicted this in Dec. but everyone thought he was demonstrating absurdity by being absurd, turns out he was right.

632 looking closely  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:59:00pm

re: #591 Dianna

I’m not clicking! I will resist!

No one can resist the charms of Pretty Woman!

(Good for not clicking, since the WIKI article is one complete spoiler).

I remember seeing it when it came out nearly 20 years ago and thinking “what’s the big deal”?

Apart from one scene, the only thing I remember from the movie are Julia Roberts boots!

633 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:59:07pm

re: #602 drogheda

Well a hydrogen fuel cell would only produce water. There are other varieties of fuel cells though.

I saw that when I searched for “hydrazine fuel cell”. Looks like you can make a platinum free fuel cell if you want to use hydrazine as your fuel. Environmentalists nightmare, cheap cell with a nasty fuel.

634 calcajun  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:59:23pm

re: #613 HoosierHoops

Talk about it taking it hard to the hole. —in a good way.

635 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 1:59:49pm

re: #606 DaddyG

Steel guitar - check
Dog died - check
Pickup broke down - check
wife and/or girlfriend left me for another man - check

We have another hit!

You forgot mothers, trains, and booze.

636 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:00:12pm

re: #609 gmsc

If they wanted to scare folks, a wing of bombers with bomb bay Mumbai doors open…….

FTFY

I think you’re just trying to curry favor here…….

637 SixDegrees  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:00:20pm

re: #31 Charles

Suppose the UAW decides to go on strike against a competitor?

From the sounds of it, it’s the UAW Pension Fund that is being given a seat - not the UAW itself. They’re a separate legal entity. The union remains free to act in it’s traditional adversarial role.

Waiting for many more details on this deal.

638 victor_yugo  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:00:23pm

Obviously, none of them has ever read Ayn Rand.

639 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:00:26pm

re: #618 BingoBunny

There’s actually some consideration being given to buying up the Saturn brand. GMC had said they’d sell it to a willing buyer.

640 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:00:28pm

Ahmed & Salim %P% Ep. 1

Youtube Video

Eh. Not great.

641 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:00:52pm

re: #635 Kosh’s Shadow

You forgot mothers, trains, and booze.

ell if you want to include the chorus of course! /

642 abolitionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:00:54pm

re: #607 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, yes, although I think that had more to do with his political career than his artistic one.

There’s this sappy romantic streak in Arab culture, that’s all. I can see Arafat finding Pretty Woman charming.

Well, the whole Arabian Nights story tradition supposedly was a strategy on the part of a harem member to avoid being quickly downgraded from virgin status to dead.

643 looking closely  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:01:15pm

re: #620 NY Nana

And we liked it!


[Video]

We LOVED it!

Curious…in 1990, not only did “Pretty Woman” come out, but Dana Carvey was actually funny.

644 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:01:29pm

re: #633 CyanSnowHawk

I saw that when I searched for “hydrazine fuel cell”. Looks like you can make a platinum free fuel cell if you want to use hydrazine as your fuel. Environmentalists nightmare, cheap cell with a nasty fuel.

As bad as spilled gasoline or diesel is, hydrazine would be much worse.

645 Rancher  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:01:33pm

re: #602 drogheda

Well a hydrogen fuel cell would only produce water. There are other varieties of fuel cells though.

If a car produces water as it’s exhaust would that mean ice roads in frozen climes?

646 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:02:02pm

re: #639 joncelli

There’s actually some consideration being given to buying up the Saturn brand. GMC had said they’d sell it to a willing buyer.

Sell it to the taxpayer and rename it the Uranus…..

647 Rancher  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:02:54pm

Will some one pick up the Hummer brand?

648 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:03:26pm
649 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:03:37pm

re: #621 Ben Hur

re: #608 A Kiwi Infidel

Aha! Thanks.

Detailed knowledge from Kiwi!


Not from personal experience! I do well at trivial pursuit evenings!

650 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:03:58pm

re: #639 joncelli

There’s actually some consideration being given to buying up the Saturn brand. GMC had said they’d sell it to a willing buyer.

Like I mentioned upthread, some of the Saturn retailers would like to spin off the brand. After a couple more years of GM-built cars, they would become a re-brander of other cars, possibly Chinese. So, maybe not so good.

651 rwmofo  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:03:58pm

It’s probably been noted above, but as a former dues-paying member (77-85) I can testify to the union’s guarantee that inefficiency will be ferociously protected.

652 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:04:03pm

re: #645 Rancher

If a car produces water as it’s exhaust would that mean ice roads in frozen climes?

Imagine what a nation of iceskating athletes the USA will become. /

653 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:04:39pm

re: #647 Rancher

Will some one pick up the Hummer brand?

AM General didn’t want it (they still build the original ones).

654 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:05:08pm

re: #652 callahan23

Imagine what a nation of iceskating athletes the USA will become. /

It’ll counteract global warming!

655 dingleB  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:05:36pm

re: #524 Kosh’s Shadow

Hydrazine N2H4 is a byproduct of your typical PEM/Solid Oxide/Molten Carbonate fuel cell. Hydrazine has also been advanced as a fuel source for do to its higher EM force than hydrogen. Google Acta, Italian company.

This byproduct will kill you and all your passengers , or at the very least shut down your/their liver kidney and central nervous system, of your fuel cell based automobile.

656 splat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:05:37pm

re: #524 Kosh’s Shadow

Hydrazine is a type of rocket fuel, and isn’t used in fuel cells

Hydrazine is extremely efficient when used in a fuel cell. Check out the research into using it instead of hydrogen. Power output can be higher than hydrogen and it doesn’t need expensive catalysts to work. The stuff is toxic as all hell, but it doesn’t contain carbon so must be green and safe for the environment ;)

657 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:05:38pm

re: #623 Ward Cleaver

Fuel cells run on hydrogen, not hydrazine. Big difference.

I did a quick search after I posted that. Hydrazine fuel cells are an alternate to Hydrogen fuel cells.

658 iLikeCandy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:05:48pm

It’s almost hopeless at this point (comment #624 with another thread started), but isn’t this something like “be careful what you ask for”? How is the UAW going to make GM profitable enough to support the UAW — unless it’s willing to screw the UAW, that is? I just see the UAW as killing the goose that lays the golden egg and becoming a giant pension fund that dries up as its members age and die.

659 Blueroom127  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:06:17pm

re: #191 zombie

It really is scary. The worst of it is that the models we’re basing this new enlightened age upon are disastrous wrecks of good intentions. One need only look at the EU. Freedoms destroyed by unions and multi-cultural thought police on the left and bloody maniac nazi lovers on the right. Sigh…

660 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:06:29pm

re: #648 buzzsawmonkey

It would be a real blow if they didn’t.

Come again?

661 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:07:29pm

GUYS…. It doesn’t make Chrysler socialist… it makes the UAW a capitalist…

They will have to make MONEY selling cars… Right now they make money selling membership fees to people who must pay them.

So now the UAW are going to have to cut costs…. hire and fire…

The conflict of interest is that the UAW can’t represent the workers to management… the UAW IS MANAGEMENT…

662 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:07:41pm

re: #657 CyanSnowHawk

I did a quick search after I posted that. Hydrazine fuel cells are an alternate to Hydrogen fuel cells.

You’re right; just not a healthy alternative.

663 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:08:17pm

re: #661 Buck

GUYS…. It doesn’t make Chrysler socialist… it makes the UAW a capitalist…

They will have to make MONEY selling cars… Right now they make money selling membership fees to people who must pay them.

So now the UAW are going to have to cut costs…. hire and fire…

The conflict of interest is that the UAW can’t represent the workers to management… the UAW IS MANAGEMENT…

ACORN will organize them.

/

664 Ben Hur  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:08:18pm

re: #655 dingleB

Hydrazine N2H4 is a byproduct of your typical PEM/Solid Oxide/Molten Carbonate fuel cell. Hydrazine has also been advanced as a fuel source for do to its higher EM force than hydrogen. Google Acta, Italian company.

This byproduct will kill you and all your passengers , or at the very least shut down your/their liver kidney and central nervous system, of your fuel cell based automobile.

But we’ll save the planet!

665 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:08:23pm

re: #658 iLikeCandy

It’s almost hopeless at this point (comment #624 with another thread started), but isn’t this something like “be careful what you ask for”? How is the UAW going to make GM profitable enough to support the UAW — unless it’s willing to screw the UAW, that is? I just see the UAW as killing the goose that lays the golden egg and becoming a giant pension fund that dries up as its members age and die.

You probably hit the nail on the head. Their first interest right now is to save their pensions and current salaries. They don’t care what happens down the road, this is a grab for as much as they can get, now, before they loose it all.

666 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:08:48pm

re: #654 Ward Cleaver

It’ll counteract global warming!

Yep, through the effect of albedo.

“The albedo of an object is the extent to which it diffusely reflects light from the Sun. It is therefore a more specific form of the term reflectivity.” Wikipedia
667 iLikeCandy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:09:44pm

re: #661 Buck

GUYS…. It doesn’t make Chrysler socialist… it makes the UAW a capitalist…

They will have to make MONEY selling cars… Right now they make money selling membership fees to people who must pay them.

So now the UAW are going to have to cut costs…. hire and fire…

The conflict of interest is that the UAW can’t represent the workers to management… the UAW IS MANAGEMENT…

Okay, there’s something like an answer to my 658. I freaking thought so! I felt this twinge of joy when I found out the UAW was going to be in management’s seat. I bet it’ll get pretty hot.

668 mattm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:09:59pm

Hey GM, Declare Ch. 11 NOW! Get rid of the Union contracts and start from scratch making cars people want, not what the Gov’t thinks you should drive.

I bet sales would increase.

669 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:10:24pm

re: #648 buzzsawmonkey

re: #647 Rancher

Will some one pick up the Hummer brand?

It would be a real blow if they didn’t.

And speaking of “adventures with car names in foreign lands” (Nova et al), I wonder how they translate “Hummer” for overseas sales? They must employ some really cunning ling… ahhh, you know.

670 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:11:27pm

re: #669 Occasional Reader

And speaking of “adventures with car names in foreign lands” (Nova et al), I wonder how they translate “Hummer” for overseas sales? They must employ some really cunning ling… ahhh, you know.

They’ll call it the Monica…pronounced Moanika.

671 iLikeCandy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:11:43pm

re: #665 Walter L. Newton

You probably hit the nail on the head. Their first interest right now is to save their pensions and current salaries. They don’t care what happens down the road, this is a grab for as much as they can get, now, before they loose it all.

Okay then, they ARE going to be the ones ultimately to screw the workers by shutting down assembly lines. How the hell are they going to explain that to the rank and file?

672 splat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:11:52pm

How does the new super-union-approved-taxpayer-funded-Chrysler cope with the basic problem of automobile manufacturers:

Massive over capacity in the car market !

Too many car companies, too many cars, too few consumers, too little brand and product differentiation ? How do they fix that little problem.

That’s even before you get to their crappy ass products. Doesn’t anyone at that company sit in a Audi, Toyota or Honda, then sit in one of their cars and go “holy s#1t this is junk !”. I remember laughing at the interior of the Crossfire.

Even Volkwagen interiors are better (!)

673 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:12:54pm

re: #669 Occasional Reader

And speaking of “adventures with car names in foreign lands” (Nova et al), I wonder how they translate “Hummer” for overseas sales? They must employ some really cunning ling… ahhh, you know.

The export version will have a tendency to spurt transmission fluid all over the place………
/

674 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:13:17pm

How did this whole thing work out for United Airlines?
Don’t answer that, it is a rhetorical question…

675 bluegecko  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:13:27pm

re: #658:

Although I question as much as you do their ability to actually deliver on long-term viability, I think it’s very much in UAW’s interest to try to ensure Chryser and GM remain viable. I actually have a much more optimistic view than many others in this thread, hoping that, perhaps when UAW has a true interest in the viability of Chrysler for its own long-term health, it will be that much more willing to effect compromises—i.e., it’s no longer an us-versus-them, but rather, an internal question of what to do with the income Chrysler generates.

In fact, I’m somewhat surprised I don’t see union supporters concerned that the union owning the company is equivalent to not having a union at all. After all, UAW now has an intense interest in ensuring Chrysler remains profitable; why not accomplish that at the expense of the workers?

676 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:14:10pm
677 Euler  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:15:15pm

Washington Post:

Under the proposed offering which GM filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, investors holding $27.2 billion of GM bonds would swap those bonds for 10 percent of the equity shares of the restructured company. The United Auto Workers would get up to 39 percent of the company in return for half of the $20 billion GM owes to a health fund for retired workers.

Under this plan, GM bondholders would get 10% of GM for $27 billion in bonds (GM’s debt to the bondholders). The UAW would get 39% of GM for $10 billion (part of GM’s debt to the UAW). So the bondholders are getting screwed: they’re paying (27/10%)/(10/39%)=10.53 times more per share than the UAW. What gives? To each according to his needs, maybe.

678 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:15:17pm
679 callahan23  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:15:24pm

re: #669 Occasional Reader

And speaking of “adventures with car names in foreign lands” (Nova et al), I wonder how they translate “Hummer” for overseas sales? They must employ some really cunning ling… ahhh, you know.

Speaking of “adventures with car names in foreign lands” how about the Mitsubishi ‘Pajero’ renamed in the Americas as the ‘Montero’ IIRC.
‘Pajero’? Any castellano speaking Lizards? ;-)

680 sawblade88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:15:34pm

re: #364 quickjustice

PBGC only insures pension plans, not health plans. That’s why Obama is going for nationalized medicine— to get the union retirees on to the government teat as quickly as possible, before the retiree health plans go under.

So, if health care is nationalized, what happens to the money (if any) left in retiree health plans? Serious question — I have no idea.

681 DistantThunder  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:16:08pm

Now we have to deal with union thugs to get our cars repaired, and even to get through the sale.

682 splat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:16:36pm

re: #662 Ward Cleaver

You’re right; just not a healthy alternative.

But it has such a low carbon footprint ;) It’s a green alternative that also helps reduce miles driven, by potentially killing the driver and passengers, thus FURTHER reducing the carbon footprint of the vehicle ! It’s an environmental win-win !

683 jhrhv  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:17:13pm

I was planning on getting a Jeep for my next car. I was sick of seeing people buying German or Japanese cars. Those are the people that were trying to kill us 60 years ago. Now that the communists are going to run the American auto industry (into the ground) I guess it’ll be a Prius. Toyota is going to make start making them in the US and will likely be smart enough to stay non unionized.

684 abolitionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:19:35pm

re: #682 splat

But it has such a low carbon footprint ;) It’s a green alternative that also helps reduce miles driven, by potentially killing the driver and passengers, thus FURTHER reducing the carbon footprint of the vehicle ! It’s an environmental win-win !

Not to mention the emergency/rescue personnel, police, towtruck driver and recycler employee.

685 yochanan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:20:24pm

re: #606 DaddyG

today you would have to have the wife leave you for your girl friend.

686 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:20:44pm

re: #682 splat

But it has such a low carbon footprint ;) It’s a green alternative that also helps reduce miles driven, by potentially killing the driver and passengers, thus FURTHER reducing the carbon footprint of the vehicle ! It’s an environmental win-win !

Unless it gets driven off the road into wetlands where an endangered mosquito breeds, then it is a man-made environmental disaster.

687 iLikeCandy  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:20:54pm

re: #675 bluegecko

re: #658:

Although I question as much as you do their ability to actually deliver on long-term viability, I think it’s very much in UAW’s interest to try to ensure Chryser and GM remain viable. I actually have a much more optimistic view than many others in this thread, hoping that, perhaps when UAW has a true interest in the viability of Chrysler for its own long-term health, it will be that much more willing to effect compromises—i.e., it’s no longer an us-versus-them, but rather, an internal question of what to do with the income Chrysler generates.

In fact, I’m somewhat surprised I don’t see union supporters concerned that the union owning the company is equivalent to not having a union at all. After all, UAW now has an intense interest in ensuring Chrysler remains profitable; why not accomplish that at the expense of the workers?

This is exactly how I’m thinking. The UAW now gets to walk a mile in management’s shoes. It has to approve a CEO and CFO. The only question (which you answer in the affirmative) is whether they’ll actually decide to get realistic on the long term, or, as I still suspect, decide to go out in a blaze of glory that kills auto manufacturing but sees the current UAW membership into retirement and death? Someday we’ll be counting the last, ancient members of the UAW the way we currently do WWII veterans — except with the opposite attitude.

688 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:22:50pm

re: #674 rawmuse

How did this whole thing work out for United Airlines?
Don’t answer that, it is a rhetorical question…

Employee owned businesses don’t always fail. IIRC, SAIC is employee owned, that was one of their selling points in a job offer they made to me once.

After reading through this thread, it looks on the surface as though this will provide incentive to the employees to make better cars, cheaper, but also that there will be problems with competition against other automakers whose employees are represented by UAW. The fact that it is the UAW retirement fund that is the holder of the majority of Chrysler, not the UAW itself, just muddies the waters.

I have trouble believing that all these machinations to avoid our established method of saving businesses that are overextended, bankruptcy, cannot be a good thing.

689 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:23:56pm

re: #643 looking closely

We LOVED it!

Curious…in 1990, not only did “Pretty Woman” come out, but Dana Carvey was actually funny.

You are right. I think what we are facing since is a reaction to 9/11, especially after the imbecile Hussein, who claims innocence, let loose one of the 747’s that is used for AF1, and had it fly low right over the heart of NYC…and it was our tax $$$$’s paying for that desecration.

It is just not the same world, and when The One just is so callous that he thinks he can get away with anything? There will be precious little joy, and the idiot savants aka celebrities who are demonrats will continue to demonize President Bush, and brainwash a generation of children. I can remember when we really were not aware of the political affiliation of a lot of them, but now?

BBIAW…

Sorry to be so morose, but Hussein has that effect on me.

690 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:26:52pm

re: #679 callahan23

Speaking of “adventures with car names in foreign lands” how about the Mitsubishi ‘Pajero’ renamed in the Americas as the ‘Montero’ IIRC.
‘Pajero’? Any castellano speaking Lizards? ;-)

Already covered by Yours Truly upthread (#448).

It’s funny to note: If you can’t afford a Hummer, you’re probably more of a Pajero type!

691 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:29:56pm

Or rather, Chrysler will simply become like Amtrak and leach off the U.S. Treasury for the next 50 years.

692 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:31:16pm

re: #125 Max Darkside

Timely topic…

BEWARE.

The Price to Earnings Ratio (P/E) of the S&P 500 is right now about 120 (I can give the XLS link right off S&P’s website). This is ridiculously high and a serious bubble in itself. Normal is like 25. Either earnings have to come up, or price WILL come down… A LOT… because 120 is 4.8 times too high. I dare say I doubt the market will to to 1/5th of what it is, but mark my words… Protect your interests.

I don’t think that number is right… P/E is price to earnings ratio. So for example Microsoft’s PE is about 10. Apple? About 22.

I think at it’s peak the S&P 500 Price Earnings Ratio was under 50…. I don’t think it has ever been 120.

693 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:39:50pm

re: #661 Buck

GUYS…. It doesn’t make Chrysler socialist… it makes the UAW a capitalist…

They will have to make MONEY selling cars… Right now they make money selling membership fees to people who must pay them.

So now the UAW are going to have to cut costs…. hire and fire…

The conflict of interest is that the UAW can’t represent the workers to management… the UAW IS MANAGEMENT…

Just wait until election time when these union thugs are out “campaigning” for the next Bonior, Levin, Stabenow, Dingell, Granholm, Riegle, Gephardt, etc.

694 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:47:06pm

re: #692 Buck

I don’t think that number is right… P/E is price to earnings ratio. So for example Microsoft’s PE is about 10. Apple? About 22.

I think at it’s peak the S&P 500 Price Earnings Ratio was under 50…. I don’t think it has ever been 120.

It is presently 60. Forecast is for doubling. Using “As Reported” earnings:

www2.standardandpoors.com

695 Truth Stick  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:51:38pm

This is a match made in Heaven……..The Unions on this side of the pond, and their business partners The Italians in charge of Fiat on the other.

696 Dominic Yeso  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:53:27pm

I personally don’t see long term viability for either Chrysler or GM. The competition is simply too much and gov seats on the boards will have a say in directing both companies into costly political pursuits like “green cars” that won’t sell outside a small niche market. It will go down the same way as UAL did but only slower because gov cash infusions will keep coming as long as the UAW can afford the big campaign contributions. Another killer is that I’m hearing a lot of folks who are pissed about the whole gov involvement thing say that they won’t ever buy a UAW product again – something to which I’m part of now too. Its sad actually.

697 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 2:56:15pm

re: #692 Buck

Buck,

The problem is all the negative earnings and the SP500 is cap weighted and the earnings on the big caps have been falling faster than the prices. The P/E ratio is *not even computable* on a LOT of the big cap stocks because their earnings per share (EPS) is NEGATIVE.

698 sngnsgt  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:05:33pm

re: #25 midwestgak

Upding for the straight answer as to why Chrysler will be a has been shortly. Bu-bye Chrysler, don’t worry retirees, Obama will pick up the benies.

699 bbcrackmonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:07:26pm

The cost of providing workers with healthcare is destroying our domestic industry here in the US. Our own auto companies cannot compete with foreign competitors who have access to Universal Health Care. My job just got outsourced to Canada because the company I work for won’t have to pay for health insurance up in Ontario.

700 sbvft contributor  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:10:43pm

i do consulting for a japanese auto manufacturer. its how I put food on the table. its sad to see Detroit’s collapse but they only have themselves to blame. poorly run and the UAW is an Obamanation.

701 Dominic Yeso  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:12:22pm

re: #699 bbcrackmonkey

Sorry to hear about the outsource. However, Toyota, Honda, VW, and BMW make cars and profits here so I don’t think that the med insurance is the key driver.

702 bbcrackmonkey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:21:19pm

Health insurance is not the only factor, of course, but its one of the biggest costs. In particular the cost of the retirees’ health insurance as well is very crippling to a company’s bottom line. Toyota, Honda, etc. don’t have nearly the number of retirees and they certainly aren’t paying anywhere near the same benefits package The Big Three have.

Another factor is, of course, the cars the Big 3 have been producing are of inferior quality. This is not the fault of the Unions, its the fault of engineers and quality control departments who decided that it was ok to cut corners on reliability.

It very much frightens me to see so many people calling these Unions communists and insinuating that they are some kind of unpatriotic rampaging Red Brigade. I’ve lived in Michigan my entire life and these men and women are not “Commies”, they are hardworking American citizens just like you who have little actual say in the negotiating process and are largely at the behest of the Union officials. My uncle works for DOW Chemical and has been a Union member for 30 years and he voted for Bush twice and owns an arsenal of guns and has 3 daughters.

703 wonk-a-donk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:24:39pm

Guess we can expect a big “O” logo on all their models and a few models get rebranded: Hussein Convertible, Teleprompter 300

All Hybrids of course…

I hear the White House is going to launch a new satellite to take some high resolution marketing photos of the new “BO Cruiser” (parked on the First Lawn)

704 Querent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:31:22pm

re: #232 Dianna

I was just thinking that this is probably the week to write to Ford and tell them how much I’d like to remain a customer.

The problem being, Kriemhild (my truck) runs fine. She’s eleven years old, but I’ve vowed to keep her until the wheels fall off. I’m not replacing her for another five years, at least.

So maybe this isn’t the week to write to Ford?

Anyone whose vehicle has a name gets an upding in my book.
Double up-dings for names from pagan antiquity.
Is she a “vehicle of strong character”?

705 Querent  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:34:11pm

re: #233 DaddyG

Round Earthers - that’s the perfect name for Zombie’s political party!

Very appropriate since the founder of the Flat Earth Society was another Charles Johnson! (i’m sure there’s plenty on the Intarwebs about this guy — i read it in one of those Readers Digest books)

706 Perplexed  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:41:20pm

Expect billions and billions (Carl Sagan voice mode off) in government bailouts.

707 tracon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:43:31pm

Now that they have that much control they will have complete access to the books and realize how ****ed they are.

708 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:48:15pm

re: #680 sawblade88

Unlike a pension plan, there’s no “money” accumulated in an employee health plan. The health care bills for retirees and others come in, and the plan calls up the sponsor (employer) for the cash to pay them. If an HMO is involved, then it pays the bills in exchange for its premiums.

709 Perplexed  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:50:55pm

re: #702 bbcrackmonkey

This is not the fault of the Unions, its the fault of engineers and quality control departments who decided that it was ok to cut corners on reliability.

Got to disagree with you on that one. Quality can not be inspected in. Quality can not be designed in. Quality can not be built in. Quality begins at the door and everyone is responsible for quality. Engineering, QA/QC, and the folks building the cars. Let the quality slip at any one of those points and you’ve got crap rolling off the assembly line. I worked for a defense contractor (now defunct) that thought quality could be tested into the finished assemblies. They had an 85% repair rate when the industry standard for electronic assembly repair was 25%.

710 scuba mom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 3:51:23pm

unfortunately it doesn’t end with chrysler. gm announced monday that the UAW and federal goverment will own 89% of their stock.

www.clickondetroit.com

Guess UAW is now reaping the rewards for supporting the almighty one.

711 joncelli  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:16:01pm

re: #672 splat

Get the government to slap a tariff on cars made by foreign-owned car companies — one so big that the vast majority of the car-buying population won’t be able to afford them. It’s coming, within a year.

712 gregb  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:19:24pm

Good point about stock prices. So, they sell 55% for $10 billion. That puts Chrysler’s total valuation at: $18 billion.

According to today’s stock close, DAI has a market cap of $32.8 billion.
online.wsj.com

That would mean that they see their company as worth about $18/share, or you can expect to make about $16/share shorting it. Might be worth a roll.

713 Pupdawg  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:28:29pm

The only upside is that now the Union members can literally put themselves out of business. Who will they blame then?

714 mrgreen  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 4:30:42pm

re: #226 Mikey_Dallas

(…)
And from Jefferson Airplane….”Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose”.
(…)

I think you mean in the words of Kris Kristofferson, and as sung by him, Gordon Lightfoot, Roger Miller, and most famously by Janis Joplin, but AFAIK, never by Grace Slick. The song is, of course, “Me and Booby McGee.”

715 USCMSNE  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 5:05:22pm
No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which. -George Orwell
716 Noah's Arrrgh  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 5:05:25pm

If VW made the beetle, what will the UAW make? The roach?

717 leereyno  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 5:10:57pm

Let Chrysler become a company of the workers, run by the workers, for the workers. If the company is able to compete in the market then great. If it is not, then it will perish. I don’t see how either outcome is negative.

The key will be making sure that the government is not run by people who will want to “nationalize” the company. Keeping car companies or coal mines open when they are unprofitable just so that the workers will have a paycheck is unethical. Businesses that are unprofitable MUST be allowed to fail so that room is made for businesses that are profitable.

I don’t see why this is a conflict of interest either. If the workers own the company then isn’t than an incentive for them to make it profitable? But then again, if they were bright enough to understand how to make money from investments, then they wouldn’t be working for the UAW anyway. Most of them are your typical blue collar, working for the man, resentful of other people’s success, Archie Bunker types who wouldn’t know a P/E ratio from a gym class.

But even so, how is this a bad thing? With ownership comes accountability, provided of course that the leftists don’t succeed in turning our federal government into the patron saint of failed businesses.

718 MarkX  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 5:23:03pm

re: #717 leereyno

Let Chrysler become a company of the workers, run by the workers, for the workers. If the company is able to compete in the market then great. If it is not, then it will perish. I don’t see how either outcome is negative.

In theory, you’re correct. But reality is otherwise…

Because once the Union is the majority stockholder the Zero’s administration will never allow it to perish…

Zero can not allow a Union run company to fail… we (the taxpayer) will continue to subsidize it… it will be a money pit.

719 LesLein  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 5:30:11pm

re: #31 Charles

Suppose the UAW decides to go on strike against a competitor?

Aren’t unions exempt from antitrust law?

720 gegenkritik  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 5:49:59pm

re: #252 Jimmah

This just confirms what was obvious all along - that this is a CD of Hitler Youth Music! (A ‘documentary’ - i.e. a record of this music


Because of German laws, which prohibits Nazi-propaganda for political purpose, it is common to label such things as “documentary” or “just about (military) history”.
This “Troll” Spencer is linking to is simply wrong about Nazi-stuff being completely illegal here, there is a huge gray-area, so Nazis can sell their stuff if they avoid certain symbols and slogans.
It is really dumb to say “it’s legal in Germany, so it can’t be Nazi-stuff”, and in the case of Rouhs it is very clear which kind of people are his customers.

721 Kronocide  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 5:53:22pm

Um…. why doesn’t the UAW just get some bailout money and buy 100% of Chrysler? Buy out all the greedy shareholders and executives. Then they can pay themselves $100 an hour at 40 hours of pay a week, 3 months vacation and whenever sick leave, and get fat pensions and bonuses. They can pay the white collars minimum wage.

Yeah, that sounds like the ticket. Brilliant.

722 tommygum  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:06:57pm

re: #17 MandyManners



re: #17 MandyManners
Peolpe used to listen to Barry White for background “doin’ it” music when I was young.

The One and WAB have “The Internationale:.

723 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:22:42pm

Apologies to all the other brilliant earlier posts, which I haven’t read, being late as usual; but I have to comment that it will be fun to see who the UAW will negotiate their next contract with, and how they will react when management decides to unionize.

724 Equifax  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:25:26pm

Union pension plans now own fifty five percent of a failing company. How is that supposed to help?

725 Spartacus50  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:32:59pm

re: #716 Noah’s Arrrgh

If VW made the beetle, what will the UAW make? The roach?

The rat

726 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:38:23pm

re: #694 Max Darkside

It is presently 60. Forecast is for doubling. Using “As Reported” earnings:

[Link: www2.standardandpoors.com…]

That sends me to a spreadsheet…. The math looks wrong for a bunch of reasons… first the average for the past 22 quarters is 20, then for some reason it jumps to 60? Doubtful.

But you can’t forecast PE even if you know future earnings (and you never really do), because you can’t know the future price…

I think that spreadsheet is wacked…

727 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:41:31pm

re: #697 Max Darkside

Buck,

The problem is all the negative earnings and the SP500 is cap weighted and the earnings on the big caps have been falling faster than the prices. The P/E ratio is *not even computable* on a LOT of the big cap stocks because their earnings per share (EPS) is NEGATIVE.

Well that might effect the individual stocks, but not the market as a whole. The price of those individual stocks will have this earnings blip calculated in. What I mean is the price of the individual stocks in the 500 will drop, and the PE will settle.

728 Dad O' Blondes  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:44:16pm

re: #11 zombie

This is 100% pure communism, Karl Marx-style:

The Workers Shall Own the Means of Production.

We tried to warn you, America, that Obama would lead this country down the path to communism. But no, you wouldn’t listen to us.

My friend, and LGF poster extraordinarie, I bow low in respect for the up dings here, but the truth is thus:

Chrysler’s shareholder agreements and prospectus will fully articulate the order of priority treatment in the event of extreme adverse business events.

In the event described, the pension obligations of the union supersede even the rights of debt holders (bond holders including JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs), let alone, ordinary fractional owners: stockholders.

Ponder for a moment the outcomes associated with a revocation of pensioner obligations…

Socialism? No.

Capitalism? Sort of.

The sanctity of contracts? Oh, yes. And verily so. And for good reason. If we want real, no BS street riots, revoke the rights of pensioners and we’ll get them — in spades.

.

729 Buck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:46:56pm

re: #717 leereyno


I don’t see why this is a conflict of interest either. If the workers own the company then isn’t than an incentive for them to make it profitable?

The UAW takes money from the workers to represent them, and their interests to management. A huge sum of money, like two grand a year per worker. Do you think that when contract time comes around the UAW will be able to represent and fight for labor? Or do you think there is a conflict of interest? Who will represent the rights of the worker?

730 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:58:25pm

Having family members who are solidly pro-union, and seeing everything management is a nail for which they are the hammer, my retort has always been encouraging employees to take stock in the company.

On paper, it provides a vested interest in doing well, and making them partially responsible for profitability.

Somehow, I never thought I would see it manifest this way. For some reason, I can’t help but feel this is a grab. Unadulterated grab.

The ramifications for this will have a domino effect of Guinness proportions.

This will be a stake in the heart of the American automobile industry. An industry America founded, we will be shoveling dirt on top of.

731 windhorse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:09:08pm

wow…. haven’t had time to read this… but - I must say…. is there a better example of Obama’s leadership? Holy shit…. the loonies running the loony bin.

Good bye Chrysler….. we hardly knew ye’….

732 Dad O' Blondes  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:12:56pm

re: #729 Buck

The UAW takes money from the workers to represent them, and their interests to management. A huge sum of money, like two grand a year per worker. Do you think that when contract time comes around the UAW will be able to represent and fight for labor? Or do you think there is a conflict of interest? Who will represent the rights of the worker?

Conflict of interest? I don’t see it that way, at all.

In fact, this is an “ALIGNMENT” of interests.

To boil it down to the simplest terms:

1. Chrysler’s management direction has been handed over through a 55% BOD assignment to those who have the highest priority in the claims to assets: the union and their related pension obligations (which by the way dwarfs the current and LT debt held by bond holders like JP Morgan, Goldman, Morgan Stanley and numerous others).

2. The stockholders are toast. They are the “owners” of this mess, but have only minimal say in the direction of the company. This is not unusual, nor is it new. Stockholders of Lehman Bros, as an example, were essentially wiped out when that firm went bankrupt in Sept, 2008.

3. The inferred mission for Chrysler’s reconstituted BOD is simple: if you think you can build a competitive product, and price it to sell, and cover your costs, and generate a profit which will cover your payments to crammed down debt holders (including your union costs and pension obligations), then it’s all yours.

4. This puts the responsibility of running a viable organization in the hands of those with the most to lose: the union. And there is a precedent for this: United Airlines (NYSE TICKER: UAL).

5. To Chrysler’s new BOD: Ready? Set?

6. GO!

.
.

And good luck.

.

733 Dad O' Blondes  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:38:23pm

The Union…

Youtube Video

Prophetic words, indeed.

.

734 Dad O' Blondes  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:45:17pm

re: #661 Buck

GUYS…. It doesn’t make Chrysler socialist… it makes the UAW a capitalist…

They will have to make MONEY selling cars… Right now they make money selling membership fees to people who must pay them.

So now the UAW are going to have to cut costs…. hire and fire…

The conflict of interest is that the UAW can’t represent the workers to management… the UAW IS MANAGEMENT…


Thank you for stating the obvious — which is evidently much needed.

Bravo.

.

735 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:24:00pm

re: #726 Buck

That sends me to a spreadsheet…. The math looks wrong for a bunch of reasons… first the average for the past 22 quarters is 20, then for some reason it jumps to 60? Doubtful.

But you can’t forecast PE even if you know future earnings (and you never really do), because you can’t know the future price…

I think that spreadsheet is wacked…

Then Standard and Poor’s is whacked, which I greatly doubt. It is authored by Howard Silverblatt, S&P Senior Index Analyst. You might want to google the guy. I have contacted a person there I know to clarify, if possible, particularly the difference between as-reported and operating earnings. It’s hard to fudge price. It’s easy to play with earnings.

You can forecast P/E, it is routinely done, as you see in the sheet. It is a necessary business function. Forecasts are just that, of course. I might add, that, let’s say… I have some inside knowledge about forecasting in finance, with customers ranging from major advisory firms to Finance Ministries of major economic powers.

The reason I think it’s an interesting calculation, by gut instinct, is that companies have posted major losses this 1st quarter, yet the market has moved down only from 935 to 855, creating a significant imbalance in the P/E for the S&P500. The “60” is horrid, and likely correct. It’s the 120 that I think bodes much worse if true. The future estimate in that sheet is current as of 4/22/2009, only days ago.

I use this XLS not as my sole basis for expecting a big market tank coming, but as merely one indicator.

Pass on my advisory, if you like, but thanks for commenting!

736 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:42:45pm

Of course, a dinkie little indicator might be the occasional bank failure in 2009 so far… (the first four were this weekend):

First Bank of Idaho, Ketchum, ID
First Bank of Beverly Hills, Calabasas, CA
Heritage Bank, Farmington Hills, MI
American Southern Bank, Kennesaw, GA
Great Basin Bank of Nevada, Elko, NV
American Sterling Bank, Sugar Creek, MO
New Frontier Bank, Greeley, CO
Cape Fear Bank, Wilmington, NC
Omni National Bank, Atlanta, GA
TeamBank, National Association, Paola, KS
Colorado National Bank, Colorado Springs, CO
FirstCity Bank, Stockbridge, GA
Freedom Bank of Georgia, Commerce, GA
Security Savings Bank, Henderson, NV
Heritage Community Bank, Glenwood, IL
Silver Falls Bank, Silverton, OR
Pinnacle Bank of Oregon, Beaverton, OR
Corn Belt Bank and Trust Company, Pittsfield, IL
Riverside Bank of the Gulf Coast, Cape Coral, FL
Sherman County Bank, Loup City, NE
County Bank, Merced, CA
Alliance Bank, Culver City, CA
FirstBank Financial Services, McDonough, GA
Ocala National Bank, Ocala, FL
Suburban Federal Savings Bank, Crofton, MD
MagnetBank, Salt Lake City, UT
1st Centennial Bank, Redlands, CA
Bank of Clark County, Vancouver, WA
National Bank of Commerce, Berkeley, IL

29 Banks less than 4 months. Last year there were a total of 27.

Now Citi and BofA are told in their stress tests they don’t have enough cash, even after we have bailed them out with one huge pile of cash, and the Fed is buying Treasuries and no matter how they spin it, that is NOT a good thing. They give a nice reason for it (lowering rates), but in reality we sold bonds to the Chinese, took their money, gave it to the banks, who then reserved it immediately in the Fed, who is taking that same money to buy bonds all over again. The Chinese are kind of burned out in bond buying, so later will come a strong wind of inflation. I don’t know how strong, but, um, let’s say double digits.

Ok, I’ll get off of this… for now.

737 Max Darkside  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:22:43pm

Buck,

If you come back to this thread, you might read this:

$13−−The First Quarter Earnings Estimate for 2009 (until yesterday)
Fri, Apr 17 2009 by Comstock Partners Team

They use that spreadsheet too (it is used widely, BTW), and expect the S&P500 to bottom in the 500’s. Seems they could be right. Hard to say.

738 melvinwinter  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:27:51pm

This parody pretty much sums it up:

optoons.blogspot.com

739 Wendya  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:22:23pm

re: #683 jhrhv

I was planning on getting a Jeep for my next car.

I’ve got three. There will be no new Jeeps in my future.

740 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:46am

re: #729 Buck

The UAW takes money from the workers to represent them, and their interests to management. A huge sum of money, like two grand a year per worker. Do you think that when contract time comes around the UAW will be able to represent and fight for labor? Or do you think there is a conflict of interest? Who will represent the rights of the worker?

Again: it isn’t the UAW who’s being offered a board seat. It’s the UAW Pension Fund, which is a completely separate entity from a legal standpoint. The UAW can continue in it’s traditional adversarial role without any (legal) conflict of interest.

741 Cato  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 6:51:05am

I note that the wording is strange. Chrysler has cut its “cash” obligations to the trust in half. Do other obligations remain?

I also note that had Chrysler gone into bankruptcy, it is likely they could have made an even better deal. Query then what other inducement, if any, was given to management to make the deal.

742 meh130  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 7:35:44am

re: #125 Max Darkside

The Price to Earnings Ratio (P/E) of the S&P 500 is right now about 120. This is ridiculously high and a serious bubble in itself. Normal is like 25. Either earnings have to come up, or price WILL come down… A LOT… because 120 is 4.8 times too high.

According to this article, the S&P 500’s long-term P/E ratio is nowhere near 120:

S&P 500 P/E Ratio: Still Above Long Term Lows

743 Max Darkside  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 8:15:59am

re: #742 meh130

According to this article, the S&P 500’s long-term P/E ratio is nowhere near 120:

S&P 500 P/E Ratio: Still Above Long Term Lows

1. That article is from October 19, 2008.
2. I said it was 60 for last quarter end, which is 3x normal, according to S&P themselves, as per that spreadsheet. 120 is what is currently developing for this quarter.
3. I am in contact with them asking a few questions. I got my first reply just now.

The difference between “as reported” (the 60 number) is that is with one-time charges included and the “operating earnings” is without. So, 60 is the number and 120 is developing (5x normal) in normal view of P/E ratio. If you wish to ignore one-time charges, then the P/E ratio is a more normal 17-18.

744 Buck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 8:23:52am

re: #737 Max Darkside

Buck,

If you come back to this thread, you might read this:

$13−−The First Quarter Earnings Estimate for 2009 (until yesterday)
Fri, Apr 17 2009 by Comstock Partners Team

They use that spreadsheet too (it is used widely, BTW), and expect the S&P500 to bottom in the 500’s. Seems they could be right. Hard to say.

I came back… it is an interesting analysis. However it speculates that people will not have the GREED FACTOR. You buy a stock for what it will be, not what it is….

So if you don’t believe that these companies will recover… then get out… however if you think that in 2 years the earnings will be higher, and the prices will be higher… then “INVEST”…

/nothing I write in any post or email, or discuss in person, or over the phone should be taken as advice with regards to anything. Always seek the advice of a professional.

745 Buck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 8:26:34am

re: #740 SixDegrees

Again: it isn’t the UAW who’s being offered a board seat. It’s the UAW Pension Fund, which is a completely separate entity from a legal standpoint. The UAW can continue in it’s traditional adversarial role without any (legal) conflict of interest.

Really? You think so? Who do the Pension fund people work for? Who is their Client? Who’s best interest do they represent?

746 Max Darkside  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 8:33:27am

re: #744 Buck

I came back… it is an interesting analysis. However it speculates that people will not have the GREED FACTOR. You buy a stock for what it will be, not what it is….


I fully understand the markets. It is an important part of my business.

So if you don’t believe that these companies will recover… then get out… however if you think that in 2 years the earnings will be higher, and the prices will be higher… then “INVEST”…


I personally got out starting in August 2007, totally out by Dec. 2007. I think things are in bad shape (today’s -6.1% GDP backs that up) and we are seeing a top rather than a bottom at the moment.

747 wonk-a-donk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 8:36:34am

And people are offended when BHO is called a fascist.

748 vanderleun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:08:32am

Charles,
Just for the record, I’m not a creationist. I’m down with evolution. Always have been and always will be. That doesn’t mean that it’s not getting a bit obsessive. Surely you have to realize that.

Hammering Creationists where ever they may rise up is really sort of like playing whack-a-mole. The argument of creationism vs Darwinism is over. Darwinism has won. A long time ago. There’s lots of valuable issues that need to be addressed in the 21st century, but counting the declining population of Creationists isn’t, to my mind, one of them.

You’ve built a great platform here, in terms of audience and software.

Not every criticism is an attack.

749 Kent64  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:09:12am

I hope this gives the UAW an incentive to make the company profitable, but my experience with Employee Owned companies is not favorable. When the “Management” calls on them to do something they do not want, they just change the management. The result is the hard decisions do not get made.

750 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 30, 2009 6:59:00am

From Chris Shunk, in today’s Autoblog:

REPORT: UAW’s majority stake in Chrysler doesn’t necessarily translate to control

The reworked contract between Chrysler and the United Auto Workers cedes 55% of Pentastar stock to the worker’s retiree health care fund. That has lead to speculation that the UAW would have majority representation on the Chrysler board, but labor experts believe that won’t be the case. University of California Berkeley labor professor Harley Shaiken insists that “equity stake doesn’t translate into voting control.” The 55% was given to the VEBA fund in lieu of the previously agreed upon cash payment. Since the only job of the VEBA is to ensure that the retiree health-care fund is properly funded, by rule, it cannot take ownership of the automaker. Though the UAW won’t have majority representation, most expect the workers to receive at least one seat at the board.

Assuming that everything falls into place, the remaining owners of the new, leaner Chrysler will be Fiat at 35% and the government and lenders at a combined 10%. The changes made by the Pentastar over the past few months should equate to a healthier, more competitive Chrysler. But if things don’t work out as planned (they rarely do) and Chrysler ultimately fails, retiree health car could end up being a thing of the past.

751 just another four-letter word  Thu, Apr 30, 2009 9:51:35am

re: #292 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

What was so horrible about filing for bankruptcy that GM would rather take this path?

The bigwigs would lose their shorts, and bigwigs nowadays don’t like to take it in the shorts - that’s for the “little people” only.

Purely selfish motives. Greed is good, right? Gordon? Right?

JAFLW

752 ExCamelJockey  Thu, Apr 30, 2009 10:22:24am

Not that I think the UAW union owning Chrysler is a good idea … but this is going to be one hell of an experiment. It’s like the foxes running the hen house. IMO, the foxes used to run amok, killing profits without remorse. Now if they eat too may hens they’ll starve themselves out of a job. I’ll be interested in seeing what employee contracts look like long term once UAW bosses see employee expenses cutting into their bonuses.
This will be one hell of a social experiment …


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