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 RetweetWhat Right Wing Extremists?

US News | Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:00:48 pm PDT

Two deputies were allegedly murdered over the weekend by a member of the Florida National Guard who was “severely disturbed” by the election of Barack Obama, and believed the US government was conspiring against him.

The events that led to the shooting deaths of two Okaloosa County sheriff’s deputies Saturday began in a small top-floor apartment in Fort Walton Beach - with an argument over a tube of Clearasil.

On Sunday, lawmen still were investigating why Joshua Cartwright, a 28-year-old U.S. Army Reserve soldier with a history of violence, killed Okaloosa County sheriff’s deputies Burt Lopez and Warren “Skip” York at a gun range in Crestview.

A few minutes after he killed the deputies, Cartwright was himself killed in a shootout with lawmen in DeFuniak Springs.

“None of it’s logical, none of it makes sense,” said interim Sheriff Ed Spooner on Sunday. “He’d obviously just got something else in his mind.”

An offense report filed against Cartwright the day he died outlines an angry husband who threatened his wife, kept guns and knives on hand, was “severely disturbed” that Barack Obama had been elected president, and believed the U.S. government was conspiring against him.

Joshua Cartwright was reportedly also interested in militia groups and weapons training.

Cartwright had been arrested in November, accused of domestic battery, a charge still pending when he died. The November arrest report listed his employer as the U.S. Army Reserves. However, Spooner said Cartwright was a member of a Florida National Guard unit based in Crestview.

Spooner said he did not think Cartwright was a war veteran, but that investigators were continuing to check his background. He said Cartwright was interested in militia groups and weapons training.

This seems disturbingly similar to the case of Richard Poplawski: Pittsburgh Cop-Killer Was Conspiracy Nut and Member of Stormfront.

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1 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:03:05pm

how sad...now everyone will chop him up and use the remains for their particular agenda...a murderer is simply a murderer until he isn't eh?

2 zombie  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:03:40pm

There sure is a wave of mental illness sweeping over the country, I'll grant you that.

3 truculentinfidel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:03:47pm

So, now the hunt is on for people interested in guns or militias! Really!

4 pink freud  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:04:26pm

Wicked bad crazy.

5 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:04:37pm

I'll bet we'll know that he voted for McCain by the next top-of-the-hour newsbreak.

/Still waiting to find out who Jiverly Wong and Lovelle Mixon voted for.

6 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:04:51pm

Didn't a militia expel Timothy McVeigh because he was crazy?

7 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:04:55pm

These cases are horrible, but if it keeps happening, maybe people will eventually stop denying that maybe there was something to that DHS report after all.

8 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:05:46pm

I'm thinking if he was so severely disturbed BO was elected...conversley if he was not it would have been the next excuse on his list

9 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:06:19pm

Remember, guns don't kill people, deranged idiots do.

10 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:08:08pm

OT: Where did the lizard lounge go?

11 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:08:19pm

re: #7 Charles

re: #8 albusteve

I'm thinking if he was so severely disturbed BO was elected...conversley if he was not it would have been the next excuse on his list


1) BO in the White House

2) Tube of clearasil.

3) Dog peed on floor

Maybe if I was fluent batshit crazy, that would make sense to me.

12 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:08:50pm

re: #10 WriterMom

That's been gone for a little while now.

13 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:09:13pm

Believed the US gov't was conspiring against him... now there's a sure sign of a rational mind.

/sarc? Even I'm not sure.

14 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:09:25pm

re: #7 Charles

These cases are horrible, but if it keeps happening, maybe people will eventually stop denying that maybe there was something to that DHS report after all.

agreed...gun slinging right wing lunatics are starting to expose themselves and after enough cases it will be hard to disagree...I had a feeling all along this stuff was gonna happen, same in Europe...people are gonna freak out when they feel isolated and boxed in

15 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:09:30pm

re: #10 WriterMom

By popular demand it was deleted.

16 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:09:32pm

I blame President Obama. If he hadn't won this poor man would never have snapped.

///

17 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:09:42pm

re: #12 Fenway_Nation

Really? I've been away for a while..Charles-is that a permanent thing, or will the lounge be back?

18 Orangutan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:09:43pm

MSM buries some wackos in favor of others...again. I'll be really concerned when these items make it into the speeches from the Teleprompter-in-Chief.

19 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:09:57pm

re: #11 Fenway_Nation

'Fluent in batshit crazy'

20 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:10:04pm

re: #13 Totally Berserk

Believed the US gov't was conspiring against him... now there's a sure sign of a rational mind.

/sarc? Even I'm not sure.

How is that different from the "insurrection" crap Glenn Beck is spouting on a daily basis?

21 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:11:20pm

re: #20 Charles

How is that different from the "insurrection" crap Glenn Beck is spouting on a daily basis?

Glenn Beck get paid for it.

22 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:11:31pm

re: #19 Fenway_Nation

"Bat shit"? A little sensitivity here.

23 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:11:35pm

Paranoid Schizophrenic = Right Wing Extremism.

/they're so easy to recruit and organize too...

24 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:11:54pm

lounge has been gone a long time. I don't think it will be back. A lot of fun I had in there -- so much fun it led me to quit drinking for over a month. But I got over that.

25 doubter4444  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:12:11pm

And it's cops on the line that take the brunt of it.
Pretty soon the apologists will say that it's because of Obama that these men got killed.
Not that their rhetoric fanned the flames.
I'm sick of the deriding of everyone and everything that is "displeasing".
My 5 year old daughter is learning about responsibility, how about we adults start taking some ourselves?

26 WriterMom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:12:36pm

Wow. That's a bummer.

27 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:12:53pm

re: #4 pink freud

Wicked bad crazy.

Just so everyone knows, no matter how much we may make fun of all sides of the political spectrum, mental illness knows no bounds.

This guy didn't do it "because Obama was elected." He did this because he was severely mentally disturbed.

28 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:13:14pm

re: #24 Totally Berserk

I missed out completely...I blame my slow as turds trickling uphill dial-up connection.

29 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:13:38pm

re: #20 Charles

How is that different from the "insurrection" crap Glenn Beck is spouting on a daily basis?

Sorry Charles, I barely know who Glenn Beck is, and I don't have any time for him. I don't watch TV...

30 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:15:16pm
"They approached him, he was uncooperative, they utilized the Taser, and he went down to the ground," Spooner said Sunday. "He came up firing with a gun nobody saw. He probably had it concealed somewhere."

Was he on something?

31 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:16:25pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Was he wearing body-armor? Would that be sufficient to mitigate being tasered if he wasn't on something?

32 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:16:29pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Was he on something?

Right Wing Extremism?

/...

33 JustMyView  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:16:40pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Was he on something?

The report doesn't say so.

34 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:16:42pm

re: #20 Charles

How is that different from the "insurrection" crap Glenn Beck is spouting on a daily basis?

same thing...small scale...one guy alone can go max and they do

35 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:16:44pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Was he on something?

That's a good question. He also could have been in a manic state such as seen in bipolar disorder. Manics tend to sometimes seem superhuman

36 jaunte  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:17:07pm

Reading the details of the attack, it's difficult to see how the DHS warning would have helped Deputies Lopez and York.

37 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:17:23pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Was he on something?

Incapacitation from a taser is a short-term matter; if he was jacked up on adrenalin - or anything else, or if the probes didn't make good contact with his skin, then the "discomfort" would be temporary.

38 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:17:40pm

re: #35 simonml

That's a good question. He also could have been in a manic state such as seen in bipolar disorder. Manics tend to sometimes seem superhuman

meth will do that...jus sayin

39 Gus 802  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:17:57pm
40 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:18:31pm

re: #36 jaunte

Reading the details of the attack, it's difficult to see how the DHS warning would have helped Deputies Lopez and York.

Maybe not in this particular case, but threat assessments like the DHS report might help law enforcement learn to recognize the signs in future cases. That's what they're for.

41 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:18:34pm

re: #38 albusteve

meth will do that...jus sayin

PCP is the most striking. Those guys jump off buildings and hit the ground running. Multiple gunshots don't stop them either

42 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:18:40pm

Thankfully here in the Washington, DC area we don't have any right wing extremists with guns because this is a democrat kinda town, and a gun free zone.

DC's high murder rate with weapons is non-ideological, just criminal, therefore, no one needs to write up a report nor study it.

43 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:18:50pm

re: #38 albusteve

meth will do that...jus sayin

Well, I do know that it's popular among folks with a distasteful nostalgia for Germany during a certain dark period.

44 krycek  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:19:27pm

Glenn Beck has a 6 city comedy tour. I keep that in mind and I don't take everything he says so seriously.

45 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:19:33pm

re: #41 simonml

PCP is the most striking. Those guys jump off buildings and hit the ground running. Multiple gunshots don't stop them either

Rodney King, anyone?

46 Dave the.....  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:20:02pm

This thread is important. But I don't think we ever did a thread on a leader of the St Paul Democrat party inviting terrorists to come to St Paul to physically attack Republicans. For those of you from the Twin cities, you probably know I am talking about Dave Thune. He invited the terrorists to come. Found them places to stay. etc

47 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:20:23pm

re: #43 Guanxi88

Aren't they bitter because the manufacture of meth is being 'outsourced' to Mexico?

48 jaunte  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:20:26pm

Benefit accounts have been set up for the families of Deputy Sheriff Burt Lopez and Deputy Sheriff Warren “Skip” York through the Okaloosa Law Enforcement Benevolent Association at Beach Community Bank.

Donations can be made at any of Beach Community Bank’s 14 locations in Okaloosa, Walton, Santa Rosa or Escambia counties. Donations can be made to any of the following accounts:

* Fund strictly for Deputy Lopez's family.
* Fund strictly for Deputy York's family.
* A combined fund to be equally distributed to Deputy Lopez's family and Deputy York's family.
* General donations to the Okaloosa Law Enforcement Benevolent Association.


[Link: www.beachcommunitybank.com...]

49 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:20:39pm

he was "severely disturbed" and had a 'history of violence'.
anyone who gets violent over a tube of clearasil and shoots two deputies,
may be too incoherent and paranoid to even understand politics.

50 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:20:56pm

re: #46 Dave the...


Link please...

51 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:21:32pm

in any case...the grabbers will be reinforced, regardless of the fct that some friggin nut takes down cops because BO is after him...this stuff will get worse

52 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:21:34pm

I continue to be totally amazed (and not in a good way) that I'm having to defend the Department of Homeland Security, founded by George W. Bush, at a site that gets pigeon-holed as "right wing."

53 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:22:10pm

re: #47 Fenway_Nation

Aren't they bitter because the manufacture of meth is being 'outsourced' to Mexico?

I imagine so long as they can control the distribution side of it once it hits the States, they'd be just as happy as if they had to make it themselves.

Comparative advantage, guys. Mexico makes meth cheaper than you can; you have better access to folk who want it but don't like brown-skinned folk. I'm sure you guys can work something out.

54 thatemailname  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:22:30pm

Hmmm, Army Reserve. Not quite a veteran. But close enough for government work, as they say. Statistically speaking, it's simply a matter of time until a veteran does something bad. Then when he (or she) does, even Napolitano will get to say "I told you so!"

55 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:22:38pm

re: #45 Totally Berserk

Rodney King, anyone?

His PCP test was negative

56 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:23:31pm

Why didn't the court notice that he was not attending anger-management courses?

57 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:23:36pm
58 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:23:40pm

re: #52 Charles

Standing up for Janet 'Deer-In-The-Headlights' Napolitano can't be any too comfortable for sure.

59 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:23:50pm

re: #53 Guanxi88


Yee-haw. Meth Maquiladoras...

60 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:23:55pm

re: #56 MandyManners

Why didn't the court notice that he was not attending anger-management courses?

They did, I'm sure, but would YOU want to be the one to bring it up? ///

61 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:23:55pm

re: #56 MandyManners

Why didn't the court notice that he was not attending anger-management courses?

Not that those classes will stop a determined abuser.

62 anchors_aweigh  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:24:16pm
63 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:24:21pm

re: #59 Fenway_Nation

Yee-haw. Meth Maquiladoras...

NAFTA for the masses!

64 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:24:38pm

re: #58 Totally Berserk

Standing up for Janet 'Deer-In-The-Headlights' Napolitano can't be any too comfortable for sure.

The DHS report was commissioned and begun under the Bush administration.

65 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:24:45pm

re: #60 Guanxi88

They did, I'm sure, but would YOU want to be the one to bring it up? ///

Couldn't he have been picked up for not obeying a court order?

66 shtgnr6  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:25:17pm

I'm a " right wing extremist " and that doesn't mean killing policemen. What it seems to mean to the folks writing these comments is a deranged psychopath. Some of you people are confusing RWE with conservative.. God help us if you can't tell the difference.

67 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:25:55pm

How many returning Iraq war vets have gone homicidal. Does anyone know?

68 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:26:16pm

Great. Now we have people gladly self-identifying as "right wing extremists."

shtgnr6

Registered since: May 7, 2006 at 1:35 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

69 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:26:23pm

This guy could've been completely apolitical and still have beaten his wife and killed those cops.

70 GlockNspell  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:26:28pm

re: #7 Charles

These cases are horrible, but if it keeps happening, maybe people will eventually stop denying that maybe there was something to that DHS report after all.

Exactly! Janet Napolitano's memo was exactly spoton. If these kinds of violence had started up and got even worse then everyone would have been blassting her for not doing her job.

71 Dave the.....  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:26:52pm

I live in St Paul. Will check the archives of the St Paul paper to find a link for this elected Democrat inviting and assisting domestic terrorists to come to St Paul. Local left wing radio did the same thing. They bragged about how the convention was going to "end with a bang". St Paul and Minnesota law enforcement prevented this.

72 LemonJoose  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:27:03pm

I'm not sure what I think about Arlen Specter's decision. I understand why he did it, and obviously he felt like he had no choice. Arlen Specter wasn't as fiscally conservative as I would like, but the last thing I want is for social moderates and liberals to start leaving the Republican party and leaving it to the ultra-right neo-Birchers and Bible-thumpers. In my opinion it is not going to be long before the Democrats screw up their 15 minutes of fame in spectacular fashion. Obama's naivete and Nancy Pelosi's strong-handed far-left power-grabbing will see to that. And when that happens, I don't want the only alternative to be a narrowly-defined and narrow-minded Republican party run by small club of ultra-right Puritan kooks beholden to idiots and demagogues like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter. I might add that Michael Steele's comments today revealed that he is a figurehead toady who is obviously taking his marching orders from Rush Limbaugh. He is worse than I could ever have imagined and should resign immediately for the benefit of the party.

I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and believe in a strong national defense and foreign policy. I think probably 50%-75% of Americans are political centrists like me who ultimately decide the outcome of general elections. Where the hell is the party to represent us? Where? I am beyond pissed off at both the extreme left and the extreme right.

Megan McCain is exactly right. The backwards-looking, head-in-the-sand, fossilized, social conservative, far right element of the party is scared shitless of the future and is willing to burn down the Republican party just to prove that they still can. If the Republican party needs to purge itself of anything, it's these far-right, puritanical ignoramuses who have embarked on their own little intra-party version of the Spanish Inquisition.

I have never had more respect for Lindsey Graham than I did today when he essentially backed up what Arlen Specter said in his press conference. Graham is a pragmatist and is at least willing to stand up and say how wrong-headed this whole puritanical far-right effort to purge the party of moderates is.

73 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:27:20pm

re: #10 WriterMom

Bad karma.

74 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:27:41pm

re: #68 Charles

This one's been on the shelf for nearly three years? That's beyond most sock-puppet's expiration dates...

75 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:28:12pm

re: #67 BatGuano

How many returning Iraq war vets have gone homicidal. Does anyone know?

i'm thinking very few.
or we would be hearing abt, it 24/7 from the msm.

76 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:28:14pm

re: #70 GlockNspell

Oh brother. You may think I don't see that you're trolling to cause chaos at my site, but I do. And I'm beginning to reach the limit of how much of it I'll tolerate.

77 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:28:25pm

re: #68 Charles

Great. Now we have people gladly self-identifying as "right wing extremists."

shtgnr6

Registered since: May 7, 2006 at 1:35 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

Five bucks on it being a sock.

78 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:29:10pm

re: #66 shtgnr6

I have no use for extremists of any stripe, and neither does any healthy minded, well adjusted, emotionally stable adult.

Keep your extremism to yourself, or at the very least, off of this forum.

79 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:29:33pm

re: #74 Fenway_Nation

This one's been on the shelf for nearly three years? That's beyond most sock-puppet's expiration dates...

They've been popping up in every one of these threads.

80 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:29:55pm

re: #71 Dave the...


Not that that sort of shit is completely beyond the pale...just that I'd like something a little more concrete.

/come to think of it, I think some lizards w/police scanners were reporting that Anarchists were getting ready to toss sacks of concrete or something equally heavy/damaging from an overpass...

81 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:30:12pm

Still, I keep going back to that 'believed the US Gov't was conspiring against him' bit. I never worry about stuff like that, because I figure I'm just one little guy out of 300 million people; it's not rational to think you've been singled out by such a large thing.

(sound of cuckoo clocks)

82 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:30:44pm

Meanwhile, a couple of honest to goodness terrorists were sentenced to life (or life +30), as the Fort Dix Six get their comeuppance.

83 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:31:03pm

re: #79 Charles

Huh...I thought the Glen Beck/Ron Paul threads would be their natural habitat.

84 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:31:08pm

shtgnr6 had a sock puppet registered under the name 'capataz'.

Both of them are now out of here.

85 shiplord kirel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:31:10pm

re: #10 WriterMom

OT: Where did the lizard lounge go?

re: #10 WriterMom

OT: Where did the lizard lounge go?

Police Raid Lizard Lounge, 16 Arrested.

86 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:31:26pm
87 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:31:31pm

re: #68 Charles

Great. Now we have people gladly self-identifying as "right wing extremists."

shtgnr6

Registered since: May 7, 2006 at 1:35 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

* * * *
Agree it's stupid to call oneself a right wing extremist. It's Narcissistic and threatening in a way, and idiots are proud of it...
NOT the way to make friends and influence people.

88 GlockNspell  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:32:33pm

re: #72 LemonJoose

Lindsey Graham is one of the few conservatives that get it - he's right in that if the right keeps circling the wagons around the neocon social agenda its all over. the reason that millions more Americans flocked to the other side the last two elections is because the country has changed - its all about embracing a new culture.

89 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:32:57pm

re: #66 shtgnr6

I'm a " right wing extremist " and that doesn't mean killing policemen. What it seems to mean to the folks writing these comments is a deranged psychopath. Some of you people are confusing RWE with conservative.. God help us if you can't tell the difference.

Define what you mean by your being a "right-wing extremist".

90 alegrias  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:32:59pm

re: #69 MandyManners

This guy could've been completely apolitical and still have beaten his wife and killed those cops.

* * * *
Like here in the DC Metropolitan area.

Such cases make the back pages of the Metro section, if at all.

91 Aviator  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:33:00pm

re: #72 LemonJoose

I'm not sure what I think about Arlen Specter's decision. I understand why he did it, and obviously he felt like he had no choice. Arlen Specter wasn't as fiscally conservative as I would like, but the last thing I want is for social moderates and liberals to start leaving the Republican party and leaving it to the ultra-right neo-Birchers and Bible-thumpers. In my opinion it is not going to be long before the Democrats screw up their 15 minutes of fame in spectacular fashion. Obama's naivete and Nancy Pelosi's strong-handed far-left power-grabbing will see to that. And when that happens, I don't want the only alternative to be a narrowly-defined and narrow-minded Republican party run by small club of ultra-right Puritan kooks beholden to idiots and demagogues like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter. I might add that Michael Steele's comments today revealed that he is a figurehead toady who is obviously taking his marching orders from Rush Limbaugh. He is worse than I could ever have imagined and should resign immediately for the benefit of the party.

I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and believe in a strong national defense and foreign policy. I think probably 50%-75% of Americans are political centrists like me who ultimately decide the outcome of general elections. Where the hell is the party to represent us? Where? I am beyond pissed off at both the extreme left and the extreme right.

Megan McCain is exactly right. The backwards-looking, head-in-the-sand, fossilized, social conservative, far right element of the party is scared shitless of the future and is willing to burn down the Republican party just to prove that they still can. If the Republican party needs to purge itself of anything, it's these far-right, puritanical ignoramuses who have embarked on their own little intra-party version of the Spanish Inquisition.

I have never had more respect for Lindsey Graham than I did today when he essentially backed up what Arlen Specter said in his press conference. Graham is a pragmatist and is at least willing to stand up and say how wrong-headed this whole puritanical far-right effort to purge the party of moderates is.

Spector did this because he was afraid he was going to get his ass kicked in the Republican primary. He is a man of little principle who just demonstrated that staying in office is THE most important thing to him.

92 irongrampa  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:33:26pm

This is disturbing. I lean considerably to the right, and can forsee the time when everyone like me will be tarred with the extremist label.
Long time ago, I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Never disavowed that oath.
I don't advocate violence defending my positions, yet I'm lumped in with those who DO.
If believing in small gov't, minimal taxes, strong defense,and living my life legally, morally and ethically means I'm a right wing extremist, then I'll wear that label with no regret.

93 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:33:31pm

re: #84 Charles

shtgnr6 had a sock puppet registered under the name 'capataz'.

Both of them are now out of here.

Just curiousity, I wonder what "taz" might stand for (following "cap a").

Sounds like someone who just LOVVVES his GUNNNS!

94 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:33:31pm

It will be interesting to see what kind of media the guy consumed too, be it the internet, talk radio, Glenn Beck, books, other right wing media, etc. No thought occurs in a vacuum.

95 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:33:57pm

What really sucks is this dude was dangerous and hadn't been locked up or under therapy. The msm is going to play this to the hilt. "Another right wing nut case goes berserk."

96 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:04pm

re: #82 lawhawk

Meanwhile, a couple of honest to goodness terrorists were sentenced to life (or life +30), as the Fort Dix Six get their comeuppance.

Not all the terrorists who plotted an attack on Ft. Dix got their comeuppance, lawhawk.

In fact, some of them are living quite comfortably in an affluent section of Chicago as tenured professors to this day.

97 sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:10pm

I'm not so sure this is a case of "right wing" extremist instead of plain old extremist. Who knows what sorts of kooky beliefs he held.

Some might say I'm splitting hairs but I draw a distinction between the right wing and extremists such as this. Yes, he may have held some views that you would find on the right but I wouldn't lump him in with the vast right wing conspiracy.

However I see Charles's point regarding the DHS memo. I don't agree with it, but I understand where he's coming from.

98 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:20pm

Mental illness is mental illness - it doesn't identify with a party. Sadly, certain extremists groups are accepting of, and with nothing but gut instinct to back this assertion up, seemingly preying on people who display these tendencies.

What bothers me is the left's leap that all military are blood thirsty killers. These sorts of things play right into that line of thought. I can't begin to describe how personally painful it is to hear someone yell at my husband and call him a baby killer. I wish I could say that's only happened only once or twice. It isn't a daily event, mind you, but it's happened a lot more than it should.

99 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:32pm
100 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:35pm

re: #91 Aviator

Spector did this because he was afraid he was going to get his ass kicked in the Republican primary. He is a man of little principle who just demonstrated that staying in office is THE most important thing to him.


Exactly right. He was more than 20 points behind. He was only thinking of his 'behind'.

101 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:37pm

Every person who identifies as a conservative should be speaking out and condemning people like this, not making excuses for them or complaining that you're being smeared.

102 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:49pm

re: #89 MandyManners

It can't it was a puppet and has had its strings cut or sock removed, whatever!

103 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:57pm

re: #88 GlockNspell

Lindsey Graham is one of the few conservatives that get it - he's right in that if the right keeps circling the wagons around the neocon social agenda its all over. the reason that millions more Americans flocked to the other side the last two elections is because the country has changed - its all about embracing a new culture.

You're a fucking Gramscian whore.

104 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:58pm

re: #95 pingjockey

What really sucks is this dude was dangerous and hadn't been locked up or under therapy. The msm is going to play this to the hilt. "Another right wing nut case goes berserk."

Haaayyy...

105 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:34:59pm

re: #89 MandyManners

Define what you mean by your being a "right-wing extremist".

"BEEEP. shtgnr6 can't come to the comment thread right now. The other sock has dropped so to say. Please leave a message."

106 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:35:07pm

Sounds like a case of a paranoid. Does his family have a history of schizophrenia?

107 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:35:26pm

re: #41 simonml

PCP is the most striking. Those guys jump off buildings and hit the ground running. Multiple gunshots don't stop them either

Bet a .45 would stop them.

108 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:35:42pm

re: #92 irongrampa


If believing in small gov't, minimal taxes, strong defense,and living my life legally, morally and ethically means I'm a right wing extremist...

It doesn't. And I don't see anyone out there but dishonest leftists lumping you or people like you with right wing extremists.

109 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:35:42pm

We're not going to see or read about real Right Wing Extremists in the news.
Are they being recruited? Yes, somewhere.
Are they organized? Yes, but that is subjective.
Are they trying to keep their activities secret? Yes.
But they wont be seen on the evening news.
Just crazies shooting it out with the cops is what we'll see.

The DHS Report had grains of truth, but it sure pissed off a lot of Vet's.

110 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:36:01pm

In San Francisco, we have the Black Block, who are anarchists, they wear masks and do their mayhem en masse. They darned near killed a cop not that long ago, beat him within an inch of his life.

Extremists are on both sides, but why do only some make it to the DHS report?

111 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:36:07pm

re: #87 alegrias

* * * *
Agree it's stupid to call oneself a right wing extremist. It's Narcissistic and threatening in a way, and idiots are proud of it...
NOT the way to make friends and influence people.

agreed...it is becoming a badge of righteous martyrdom...very bad juju

112 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:36:32pm

re: #92 irongrampa

This is disturbing. I lean considerably to the right, and can forsee the time when everyone like me will be tarred with the extremist label.
Long time ago, I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Never disavowed that oath.
I don't advocate violence defending my positions, yet I'm lumped in with those who DO.
If believing in small gov't, minimal taxes, strong defense,and living my life legally, morally and ethically means I'm a right wing extremist, then I'll wear that label with no regret.

Horsefeathers! Don't allow anyone to label you. Label yourself.

113 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:36:50pm

re: #101 Charles

Every person who identifies as a conservative should be speaking out and condemning people like this, not making excuses for them or complaining that you're being smeared.

I condemn him.

I also wonder - from the accounts you linked - about his mental condition.

114 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:36:50pm

re: #72 LemonJoose

How many more fucking threads are you gonna copy and paste that onto today, LemonJoose? You're up to three already.

115 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:13pm

That was quick:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

The FreeRepublic crybabies are already on the case.

116 seagreenroom  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:25pm

It's a tragedy for the officers and their families. This is also going to make it a lot easier for TheOne to bring the hammer down on law-abiding gun-owners.

He won't waste incidents like this.

117 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:26pm

re: #106 Dianna

Sounds like a case of a paranoid. Does his family have a history of schizophrenia?

Sounds like a case of garden-variety domestic violence abuser. They're not crazy, they're just mean.

118 Totally Berserk  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:44pm

re: #101 Charles

Fair enough. Lunatics killing cops is unacceptable. Being a cop is a difficult job and I'm really sick that this was done. Anybody around me starts talking s--- like this and I will turn them in.

119 sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:45pm

re: #101 Charles

Every person who identifies as a conservative should be speaking out and condemning people like this, not making excuses for them or complaining that you're being smeared.

You're right. He should be condemned by people of every stripe. I would also add that he had no more to do with the conservative movement than the man in the moon.

120 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:46pm
121 shiplord kirel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:47pm

re: #101 Charles

Every person who identifies as a conservative should be speaking out and condemning people like this, not making excuses for them or complaining that you're being smeared.

If these people didn't exist, the media would manufacture them (and frequently have anyway).
There is no reason to make the enemy propaganda machine's job any easier though.

122 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:50pm

re: #92 irongrampa

I don't advocate violence defending my positions, yet I'm lumped in with those who DO.


You guys are still missing the point. The DHS report has nothing to do with normal conservatives. It was about extremists, neo-Nazis, racists, separatists, militias, etc. The only people who lumped in normal conservatives were the normal conservatives themselves. It's all in their imagination. Nobody else thought the DHS report was about normal conservatives. They cooked that one up themselves.

123 irongrampa  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:54pm

re: #108 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait and watch, it will come. Too good a meme not to trumpet.

124 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:37:56pm

re: #107 LGoPs

Bet a .45 would stop them.

Likely, but if you only winged them, they might keep going. You'd be surprised what these junkies can do

125 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:38:08pm

re: #107 LGoPs


Eventually...but it's a matter of how much damage they can do before finally dropping

126 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:38:11pm

re: #116 seagreenroom

It's a tragedy for the officers and their families. This is also going to make it a lot easier for TheOne to bring the hammer down on law-abiding gun-owners.

He won't waste incidents like this.

And that's ANOTHER reason why it's important for conservatives to speak out against this kind of crap instead of bitching and moaning about the DHS report.

127 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:38:13pm

re: #103 MandyManners

Looking at what you quoted, I would say that I want no part of this vaunted "new culture."

128 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:38:44pm

re: #75 nyc redneck

That's what I thought. I don't remember hearing of any.

129 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:38:59pm

Way too many people are still missing the point.

130 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:39:42pm

re: #120 taxfreekiller

John F. Kerry is in the U.S. Senate this very moment in time.

No American alive has more blood on his hands than John F. Kerry
liberal Democrat.

Rabbit Bait would give him a run for that title.

131 drogheda  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:39:54pm

re: #110 rawmuse

Extremists are on both sides, but why do only some make it to the DHS report?

Because it was a report on right wing extremism? Left wing extremists already had their own DHS report(s).

132 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:39:55pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

You guys are still missing the point. The DHS report has nothing to do with normal conservatives. It was about extremists, neo-Nazis, racists, separatists, militias, etc. The only people who lumped in normal conservatives were the normal conservatives themselves. It's all in their imagination. Nobody else thought the DHS report was about normal conservatives. They cooked that one up themselves.

I didn't and millions upon millions of others didn't

133 Danny  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:39:56pm

re: #52 Charles

Well, I voted for Bush but I can't say I'm very impressed about the performance of the DHS under him or Obama (who really hasn't had time to do much that can be judged, IMO). Yeah I know, its easy to be an armchair critic. BTW, I'm interested in militias (although I dont belong to one) and I train with my firearms every chance I get. Doesn't mean I'm a rightwing extremist (except maybe in my wife's mind. :)

134 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:40:32pm

re: #117 MandyManners

Sounds like a case of garden-variety domestic violence abuser. They're not crazy, they're just mean.

Remember that he also thought the government was conspiring against him. That's classic paranoia. It's also sometimes a feature in borderline schizophrenia.

I'm curious.

135 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:40:36pm

First two paragraphs of the second story:

Two deputies killed by a soldier they were trying to arrest had exchanged multiple rounds with the man, authorities said Sunday, a day after the men were killed.

The soldier began shooting while on the ground after he was shocked with a stun gun.

BULLSHIT. His primary occupation was selling phones.

136 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:40:39pm

re: #131 drogheda

Because it was a report on right wing extremism? Left wing extremists already had their own DHS report(s).

Really? I have not seen that one.

137 huckfunn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:40:41pm

re: #88 GlockNspell

Lindsey Graham is one of the few conservatives that get it

Lindsey Graham... a conservative!?!?!?! Your definition of conservative is a lot different than mine.

138 JacksonTn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:40:45pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

You guys are still missing the point. The DHS report has nothing to do with normal conservatives. It was about extremists, neo-Nazis, racists, separatists, militias, etc. The only people who lumped in normal conservatives were the normal conservatives themselves. It's all in their imagination. Nobody else thought the DHS report was about normal conservatives. They cooked that one up themselves.

Killgore ... you refer to "conservatives" or "right-wing" in your posts dissing republicans ... maybe you could put "normal" before republican when you are not dissing republicans ...

/ go ahead ding me down ... it is just how I feel ...

139 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:41:20pm

re: #127 Dianna

Looking at what you quoted, I would say that I want no part of this vaunted "new culture."

Crocknshit just irks me.

140 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:41:32pm

Trying to figure out why some deranged individual does
something like this is futile. They are deranged, not logical.
You stop them by locking them up, or neutralizing them first.

141 Sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:41:37pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

You guys are still missing the point. The DHS report has nothing to do with normal conservatives. It was about extremists, neo-Nazis, racists, separatists, militias, etc. The only people who lumped in normal conservatives were the normal conservatives themselves. It's all in their imagination. Nobody else thought the DHS report was about normal conservatives. They cooked that one up themselves.

I would say those descriptions are believed by lot of Democrats in general and the crazy ones in particular to be the core of the Republican party membership though. Perhaps that's why normal conservatives bristled a bit because they know what the left thinks of them and instinctively felt they would be lumped in with the fringe elements.

142 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:41:40pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

I cannot agree with you.

143 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:41:47pm

re: #131 drogheda
They did? Missed that one on Earth First, Animal Liberation Front, didn't see anything about those domestic terrorists.

144 loppyd  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:42:16pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

You guys are still missing the point. The DHS report has nothing to do with normal conservatives. It was about extremists, neo-Nazis, racists, separatists, militias, etc. The only people who lumped in normal conservatives were the normal conservatives themselves. It's all in their imagination. Nobody else thought the DHS report was about normal conservatives. They cooked that one up themselves.

You forgot the footnote about being pro-life or anti-immigration.

Or did I imagine that?

145 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:42:25pm

Remember Naveed Haq and and Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar? This is the right-wing equivalent: a deranged loner who constructs an alternate reality in his (it's almost always "his") head, in accordance with which he can go out in a blaze of glory for the cause of righteousness.

What elevated the antics of Haq and Taheri-azar to the level of "sudden jihad syndrome" was that their chosen "reality" was Islamic. What we're seeing here is "sudden wolverine syndrome".

146 Gus 802  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:42:42pm

re: #101 Charles

Every person who identifies as a conservative should be speaking out and condemning people like this, not making excuses for them or complaining that you're being smeared.

Correct. It would be no different then a Liberal Democrat coming up with excuses for left wing extremist acts such as the initial Black Panthers or Earth Liberation Front, etc. Or if they would identify themselves with "left-wing extremists."

147 Athos  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:42:50pm

Extremists and threats exist on the fringe on both sides of the political spectrum - far left and far right. That's why they, and those they pal around with are considered on the fringe and extremists. It is irresponsible to think that the government should ignore one extreme or the other just because of a bias / leaning towards that side of the political spectrum. I also consider it irresponsible for the media to focus and highlight the motivations of an extremist because their fringe political viewpoints are on the other side of the spectrum of those who are reporting on it.

It would be nice to see the MSM pant and froth about over the actions of Ayers / Weather Underground, FALN, the anarchists who focus on anti-capitalism G7 / G20, the thugs of Chavez, Castro, etc like they do with the right wing whackos. But since the right wing fringe can be painted to represent the entire conservative position - its clear why the media is so selective in their attentions.

148 GlockNspell  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:43:18pm

just thinking out loud - does it say in the article anything that would lead us to believe this guy was a conservative or rightwing? There's a lot of PUMA's that were awfullly upset that Barack Obama got elected instead of Hillary.

149 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:43:25pm

re: #141 Sleepyone

I would say those descriptions are believed by lot of Democrats in general and the crazy ones in particular to be the core of the Republican party membership though. Perhaps that's why normal conservatives bristled a bit because they know what the left thinks of them and instinctively felt they would be lumped in with the fringe elements.

And if that's true, by throwing a major tantrum and self-identifying as "right wing extremists," they did more to cement that impression than any left winger ever could have.

150 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:43:30pm

re: #136 rawmuse

Really? I have not seen that one.

Fox News had a link to it.

151 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:43:38pm

re: #124 simonml

Likely, but if you only winged them, they might keep going. You'd be surprised what these junkies can do

That's why they teach to go for center of mass.

152 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:43:38pm

re: #123 irongrampa

As I said, by dishonest leftists, who have always tried to lump conservatives with right wingnuts and extremists. I think you are taking this story as an opportunity to play the victim.

As Mandy said: define yourself, don't let others do it for you.

153 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:43:43pm

re: #138 JacksonTn


maybe you could put "normal" before republican when you are not dissing republicans ...


If it's relevant I do distinguish between different groups or subgroups. The DHS memo was pretty clear.

154 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:43:49pm

re: #134 Dianna

Remember that he also thought the government was conspiring against him. That's classic paranoia. It's also sometimes a feature in borderline schizophrenia.

I'm curious.

Thinking the government--especially the court system--is conspiring against them is common among DV abusers. I'm extremely reluctant to give any of them a break unless I know for a fact that they've been diagnosed by a shrink.

155 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:44:09pm

re: #139 MandyManners

Crocknshit just irks me.

I understand. I just don't like that phrase.

156 JacksonTn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:44:20pm

re: #148 GlockNspell

just thinking out loud - does it say in the article anything that would lead us to believe this guy was a conservative or rightwing? There's a lot of PUMA's that were awfullly upset that Barack Obama got elected instead of Hillary.

GnS ... F*ck you ... you just trying to stir of sh*t ...

157 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:44:26pm

re: #154 MandyManners

Thinking the government--especially the court system--is conspiring against them is common among DV abusers. I'm extremely reluctant to give any of them a break unless I know for a fact that they've been diagnosed by a shrink.

And, I still wouldn't give anyone a break if he appears to be able to function in life without heavy meds.

158 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:44:33pm

re: #148 GlockNspell

just thinking out loud - does it say in the article anything that would lead us to believe this guy was a conservative or rightwing? There's a lot of PUMA's that were awfullly upset that Barack Obama got elected instead of Hillary.

That's enough trolling out of you. Get off my website.

159 simonml  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:44:53pm

re: #151 LGoPs

That's why they teach to go for center of mass.

"Aim big hit big. Aim small miss small."

160 wiffersnapper  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:44:56pm

kooks on the left, kooks on the right.

161 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:06pm

That's two

162 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:11pm

re: #136 rawmuse

Really? I have not seen that one.

It was about the Left's use of the Internet.

163 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:19pm

re: #88 GlockNspell

Lindsey Graham is one of the few conservatives that get it - he's right in that if the right keeps circling the wagons around the neocon social agenda its all over.

Define "neocon". Hint: it does not mean "magic word which instantly discredits all your opponents".

164 Sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:27pm

re: #149 Charles

And if that's true, by throwing a major tantrum and self-identifying as "right wing extremists," they did more to cement that impression than any left winger ever could have.

You're right about that but I don't recall anyone self-identifying themselves as a "right wing extremist" other than that poster upthread a bit. Were there other cases in the news where someone proudly wore the banner of "extremist"? I'm sure there could have been but I have to say I missed that.

165 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:32pm

Here comes the hate mail again.

166 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:48pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

The last thing in the world that briefing contained was any semblance of clarity.

167 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:49pm

re: #158 Charles

That's enough trolling out of you. Get off my website.

HOORAY!

168 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:45:59pm
169 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:46:18pm

Why was someone with a history of domestic violence, anger management problems and had been reported to the authorities multiple times allowed in the military? Why was he even allowed to own multiple weapons?

"An offense report filed against Cartwright the day he died outlines an angry husband who threatened his wife, kept guns and knives on hand, was "severely disturbed" that Barack Obama had been elected president, and believed the U.S. government was conspiring against him."

170 shiplord kirel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:46:30pm

An alliance with conspiraliars and fascist lunatics is a deal with the devil and, ultimately, the ticket to permanent irrelevancy.
If conservatives don't get a grip on this, the "right" will continue to exist only as a convenient strawman for lib power-grabbers and a cash-cow for cynical profiteers like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck.

171 Sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:46:36pm

re: #148 GlockNspell

just thinking out loud - does it say in the article anything that would lead us to believe this guy was a conservative or rightwing? There's a lot of PUMA's that were awfullly upset that Barack Obama got elected instead of Hillary.

What the heck is a PUMA?

172 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:46:39pm

BTW, "right wing" is not at all the same as "conservative" or "republican". Never has been, never will be.

173 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:46:50pm

re: #165 Charles
Putting on my majik hat..."Charles why do you hate conservatives?"
or "right wingers"

174 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:47:05pm
175 JacksonTn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:47:09pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

If it's relevant I do distinguish between different groups or subgroups. The DHS memo was pretty clear.

Killgore .. I am sure in your mind you distinguish ... it is just that in many of your posts it seems that you lump all republicans/conservative into a group ... and many times not a group that represents the majority of republicans/conservatives ... many of your friends here are republicans/conservatives and it just rubs the wrong way ... imo ...

176 LemonJoose  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:47:35pm

re: #114 Fenway_Nation

LOL. I'm done now. It was such a long post that by the time I finished it this new story was posted. I put in the comments for the Arlen Specter story since that's where it's most relevant, but that thread of comments is dead now.

177 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:48:08pm

re: #162 MandyManners

It was about the Left's use of the Internet.

Here it is.

178 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:48:14pm

re: #165 Charles

Please post the hate mail, i'm seriously fascinated as to why someone would be defending this!

We live in really crazy times.

This site is almost cathartic.

179 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:48:18pm

re: #171 Sleepyone

What the heck is a PUMA?

The pro-Hillary/anti-0bama faction of the DNC during the last eletion...

Party
Unity
My
Ass

180 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:48:29pm

re: #170 shiplord kirel

An alliance with conspiraliars and fascist lunatics is a deal with the devil and, ultimately, the ticket to permanent irrelevancy.
If conservatives don't get a grip on this, the "right" will continue to exist only as a convenient strawman for lib power-grabbers and a cash-cow for cynical profiteers like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck.

it's well established already...the 'right' is redefining itself and I don't really want to be part of it

181 JacksonTn  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:48:37pm

re: #171 Sleepyone

What the heck is a PUMA?

SO ... [Link: www.pumapac.org...] ... they are not crazy people ... may not agree with you on policies but definitely not crazies ...

182 irongrampa  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:48:43pm

re: #152 Slumbering Behemoth

NEVER a victim.Pissed about the whole mess, and finally spoke about it. I have no use for people who play the victim card.
Have even LESS use for the extreme right OR left wing. Until they are negated--I mean BOTH sides--things will only get worse.

183 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:48:57pm

Oh well, profiling sucks. It is another form of collectivism, which I reject. Profiling has now been outlawed in the airports, as has been richly documented on these and other threads.

If you got a beef against a specific person or persons, fine, but I think we all can agree that it sucks to tar entire classes of citizens based on the actions of a few.

184 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:49:26pm

re: #177 MandyManners

Here it is.

Yeah! but what about all those dangerous moderate extremists!

//

185 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:49:54pm

re: #136 rawmuse

Really? I have not seen that one.

And you may never will. It was not meant for "public' eyes.
Just like the DHS RWE report, 'cept that was leaked...

/just 'cause I'm paranoid don't mean they're not out to get us...

186 Gus 802  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:49:56pm

re: #144 loppyd

You forgot the footnote about being pro-life or anti-immigration.

Or did I imagine that?

The report didn't target those groups: pro-life or anti-immigration. It only identified those issues as having the potential to be used as means to garner recruitment by extremist groups or to attract lone-wolf actors as it were.

187 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:49:57pm

re: #141 Sleepyone

I would say those descriptions are believed by lot of Democrats in general and the crazy ones in particular to be the core of the Republican party membership though. Perhaps that's why normal conservatives bristled a bit because they know what the left thinks of them and instinctively felt they would be lumped in with the fringe elements.

Hi. Token conservative Democrat here.

Typicaly I see Republicans as my neighbors, the people I work with, my nephew's friends parents and just ordinary folks. The Militia nuts I see as nuts and not part of any political party.

188 Alouette  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:20pm

re: #171 Sleepyone

What the heck is a PUMA?

A centrist democrat.

189 Sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:24pm

re: #179 Fenway_Nation

The pro-Hillary/anti-0bama faction of the DNC during the last eletion...

Party
Unity
My
Ass

re: #181 JacksonTn

SO ... [Link: www.pumapac.org...] ... they are not crazy people ... may not agree with you on policies but definitely not crazies ...

Thanks for the link. I do recall something about that group but I had forgotten what the acronym stood for.

190 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:26pm

re: #183 rawmuse

Did you see my No. 177?

191 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:30pm

re: #164 Sleepyone

You're right about that but I don't recall anyone self-identifying themselves as a "right wing extremist" other than that poster upthread a bit. Were there other cases in the news where someone proudly wore the banner of "extremist"? I'm sure there could have been but I have to say I missed that.

Search Google for "we're all right wing extremists now".

192 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:39pm

re: #184 jcm

Yeah! but what about all those dangerous moderate extremists!

//

Taze 'em all.

193 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:39pm

re: #149 Charles

And if that's true, by throwing a major tantrum and self-identifying as "right wing extremists," they did more to cement that impression than any left winger ever could have.

Charles? So far, the actions you've used for front page posts have been isolated incidents. The one fellow, who had ties to Stormfront, read and sometimes posted, but doesn't appear to be part of any organized group. Frankly, he didn't sound organized enough to arrange a road trip to an amusement park.

This one...this one bothers me more being used as an example, because what I'm reading indicates mental illness, like the shooter at Virginia Tech. There may be cultural consistencies, he may have been interested in fringe notions, but what I've read, from your links, makes me uncomfortable with calling him any "wing".

194 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:44pm

re: #158 Charles

That's enough trolling out of you. Get off my website.

Hurrah!

195 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:45pm

re: #183 rawmuse

Oh well, profiling sucks. It is another form of collectivism, which I reject. Profiling has now been outlawed in the airports, as has been richly documented on these and other threads.

If you got a beef against a specific person or persons, fine, but I think we all can agree that it sucks to tar entire classes of citizens based on the actions of a few.

You "profile" behaviors. Israel uses that every effectively for El Al security.

196 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:47pm

Great, some more people to give conservatives like me a bad name.

197 Alouette  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:50:49pm

re: #189 Sleepyone

Thanks for the link. I do recall something about that group but I had forgotten what the acronym stood for.

We are all PUMA's now.

198 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:51:01pm

re: #177 MandyManners
Is it all about the internet or do they bring up the assholes who firebomb agriculture research labs, trash auto dealerships, spike trees, burn up logging equipment?

199 shiplord kirel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:51:28pm

re: #160 wiffersnapper

kooks on the left, kooks on the right.

"Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you."

200 Sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:51:30pm

re: #187 Conservative Moonbat

Hi. Token conservative Democrat here.

Typicaly I see Republicans as my neighbors, the people I work with, my nephew's friends parents and just ordinary folks. The Militia nuts I see as nuts and not part of any political party.

Now that's a Democrat I would have as a neighbor!

201 drogheda  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:51:32pm

re: #143 pingjockey

They did? Missed that one on Earth First, Animal Liberation Front, didn't see anything about those domestic terrorists.

I believe Charles linked the one about Leftwing Extremists likely yo use Cyber Attacks before. I think there was another one linked as well but I may be mistaken.

202 MaximumBob  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:51:36pm

There are the deranged on both ends of the political spectrum. Right now the extreme left has taken power (or to use the media term when the Republicans were in power, "seized"), so the deranged lefties are somewhat smugly satisfied and the deranged rightists are totally disempowered, so the right-wing extremists are more likely to literally and figuratively "blow-up".

Also keep in mind that the MSM will place more visibility of right wingers going ballistic than left wingers going crazy as part of their biases.

I happen to believe that the federal goverment in general and the Obama Administration specifically have seized too much power and Obama is spending too much. That doesn't make me a right-wing extremist (except in the eyes of the MSM) and just because I believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights doesn't mean I will go ballistic and go blow something up. And I do think the government is conspiring against me and everyone else in this nation who are productive and thus contribute way too much of our earnings to support a large number of unwilling unproductives that live off of the government treasury.

If you think likewise, then use your power of the ballot, not the power of the bullet. (with apologies to the late Malcolm X)

203 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:51:39pm

re: #190 MandyManners

Did you see my No. 177?

Thanks, darlin', bookmarked it to read later.

204 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:51:58pm
205 Emerald  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:52:01pm

re: #110 rawmuse

In San Francisco, we have the Black Block, who are anarchists, they wear masks and do their mayhem en masse. They darned near killed a cop not that long ago, beat him within an inch of his life.

Extremists are on both sides, but why do only some make it to the DHS report?

Because the DHS issued a separate report on left wing extremists, a fact that's been mentioned multiple times on these threads.

206 Alouette  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:52:08pm

re: #195 jcm

You "profile" behaviors. Israel uses that every effectively for El Al security.

Israeli profiling is very weird, but I guess they must know what they are doing, since it works.

207 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:52:14pm

re: #193 Dianna

Charles? So far, the actions you've used for front page posts have been isolated incidents. The one fellow, who had ties to Stormfront, read and sometimes posted, but doesn't appear to be part of any organized group. Frankly, he didn't sound organized enough to arrange a road trip to an amusement park.

This one...this one bothers me more being used as an example, because what I'm reading indicates mental illness, like the shooter at Virginia Tech. There may be cultural consistencies, he may have been interested in fringe notions, but what I've read, from your links, makes me uncomfortable with calling him any "wing".

but he was...face the facts

208 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:52:34pm

re: #149 Charles

Self identifying as an extremist anything is a bit odd in and of itself. I'm quite conservative - socially and fiscally. That said, I don't find my beliefs "extreme". I also don't find it necessary to include these guys as part of who and what I represent any more than I would include Code Pink loons. They don't represent my thoughts or views in the least - mainly because the majority of my thoughts are rational. (The typing not so much, but the thoughts? definitely).

209 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:52:41pm

re: #196 TheMatrix31

Great, some more people to give conservatives like me a bad name.

Not if you speak out and make it clear you renounce this kind of crap.

210 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:52:42pm

re: #154 MandyManners

Thinking the government--especially the court system--is conspiring against them is common among DV abusers. I'm extremely reluctant to give any of them a break unless I know for a fact that they've been diagnosed by a shrink.

No disagreement. I am not (obviously) diagnosing the shooter; I am simply expressing curiosity.

211 loppyd  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:52:56pm

re: #186 Gus 802

The report didn't target those groups: pro-life or anti-immigration. It only identified those issues as having the potential to be used as means to garner recruitment by extremist groups or to attract lone-wolf actors as it were.

From the report:

“It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single-issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration,”

212 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:53:03pm

re: #201 drogheda
I ain't talking about cyber attacks. Which are a pain but don't get people killed.

213 Athos  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:53:04pm

re: #126 Charles

The report is fundamentally immaterial. There are fringe whackos on both sides of the spectrum and we cannot tolerate, excuse, or protect any of them.

We do this when we speak out about being associated with euro-nazi's, so why can we not also speak out and condemn the whacked out fringe regardless of the spectrum...and those who enable and empower the fringe. I am far less angry over the DHS report on 'right wing extremism' than I am on the fact that anyone on center / right is going to be linked by the MSM to the right wing extremists because of the political advantage that can be gained.

We can whinge about it - or we can distance ourselves from the fringe and the nitwits like Judge Napolitano, Luap Nor, Alex Jones, Geller, Spencer, and the rest who are not only enabling them and playing to their phobias / fears with their populist BS - but getting far too much of a pass. We have to speak out and police ourselves and our political initiatives to keep these people on the fringe where they belong...and it will counter the efforts to paint all of us as being 'extremists'. Let's point out where that prejorative really belongs.

214 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:53:09pm

re: #174 buzzsawmonkey

Nope, I'm still here. Time for a fart joke?

215 Thanos  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:02pm

re: #158 Charles

That's enough trolling out of you. Get off my website.

Thanks, he was obviously running a leftifada ...

216 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:04pm

re: #205 Emerald

Thanks, I admit I was not up to speed on that.

217 jaunte  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:05pm

I'll be happy to see law enforcement take a closer look at domestic violence as part of the extremist profiling behaviors they're watching for.

218 Mithrax  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:06pm

re: #214 Slumbering Behemoth

Nope, I'm still here. Time for a fart joke?

When isn't it time for a fart joke?

219 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:14pm

re: #204 taxfreekiller
Yep. We have had to put metal detectors in saw mills because of spikes pounded into trees.

220 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:19pm

Fuck...why is it that Kathy Boudin survived the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion while Edward O'Grady and Waverly Brown were killed in the line of duty along with Brink's guard Peter Paige?

221 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:33pm

re: #184 jcm

Yeah! but what about all those dangerous moderate extremists!

//

I am a passionately fanatic, frothingly zealous milquetoast moderate...
The only thing I will not tolerate is those who lack toes.
/

222 rightwinger3  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:37pm

re: #173 pingjockey

Putting on my majik hat..."Charles why do you hate conservatives?"
or "right wingers"

Not true, Charles even dinged me up once.

223 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:44pm

re: #198 pingjockey

Is it all about the internet or do they bring up the assholes who firebomb agriculture research labs, trash auto dealerships, spike trees, burn up logging equipment?

Have you read it?

224 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:52pm

re: #182 irongrampa

Right then. I retract my statement and apologize.

225 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:54:53pm

re: #215 Thanos

Thanks, he was obviously running a leftifada ...

Sometimes it's really obvious. I'll give these people enough rope to hang themselves.

226 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:55:05pm

re: #169 unpaidbills

I don't know when these tendancies surfaced. I will say that the Military, just like other segments of the community, are not immune to mental illness. I'll also say in this day and age of political correctness in the Army, it's hard to get someone out for things that should be no-brainers.

227 Alouette  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:55:10pm

re: #219 pingjockey

Yep. We have had to put metal detectors in saw mills because of spikes pounded into trees.

Doesn't "spiking" harm the tree?

228 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:55:27pm
229 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:55:35pm

re: #222 rightwinger3
Sare: #223 MandyManners

rcasm, sarcasm!

230 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:55:58pm

re: #229 pingjockey
oops!

231 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:56:00pm
232 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:56:10pm

re: #198 pingjockey

(U//FOUO) DHS/Office of Intelligence and Analysis defines leftwing extremists as
groups or individuals who embrace radical elements of the anarchist, animal rights, or
environmental movements and are often willing to violate the law to achieve their
objectives. Many leftwing extremist groups are not hierarchically ordered with defined
members, leaders, or chain of command structures but operate as loosely-connected
underground movements composed of “lone wolves,” small cells, and splinter groups.
— (U//LES) Animal rights and environmental extremists seek to end the perceived
abuse and suffering of animals and the degradation of the natural environment
perpetrated by humans. They use non-violent and violent tactics that, at times,
violate criminal law. Many of these extremists claim they are conducting these
activities on behalf of two of the most active groups, the Animal Liberation Front
and its sister organization, the Earth Liberation Front. Other prominent groups
include Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty; and chapters within the Animal
Defense LeagueUSPER, and Earth First!USPER.
— (U//FOUO) Anarchist extremists generally embrace a number of radical
philosophical components of anticapitalist, antiglobalization, communist,
socialist, and other movements. Anarchist groups seek abolition of social, political, and economic hierarchies, including Western-style governments and
large business enterprises, and frequently advocate criminal actions of varying
scale and scope to accomplish their goals. Anarchist extremist groups include
entities within CrimethincUSPER, the Ruckus SocietyUSPER ,and Recreate 68 USPER.

233 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:12pm

re: #210 Dianna

No disagreement. I am not (obviously) diagnosing the shooter; I am simply expressing curiosity.

I tend to get my knickers in a twist about the subject of DV. I apologize for being a bit cranky, Dianna.

234 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:16pm

re: #206 Alouette

Israeli profiling is very weird, but I guess they must know what they are doing, since it works.

Certain behaviors trigger a second look, usually a few questions by a security person who looks and acts like airline personnel. It has several levels of escalation.

And it is very effective. But also requires trained people, not burger flipper quality people.

235 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:16pm

re: #223 MandyManners
No, that's why I asked. Up here in the Northwest we have the serious threat of lefty loons doing serious damage/personal injury in the name of Gaia.

236 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:17pm

re: #228 taxfreekiller

I've gone with crazy wing.

237 ArdentCapitalist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:26pm

re: #7 Charles

These cases are horrible, but if it keeps happening, maybe people will eventually stop denying that maybe there was something to that DHS report after all.

And what of us GWOT veterans who have polar views to the Obama administration who have these following concerns?

1) Immediately changing the conduction of the 10-year national census from the Commerce Department to the executive branch, with ACORN likely to play a roll in cooking the books to solidify power for the current party long after the census is complete.

2) Previous admiration for Marxist professors during his college years. Admiration of anything Marxist I'm afraid is a tacit approval of the entire repression of the human spirit during the great Communist experiment, which is still being unsuccessfully conducted. While some people truly believed that Marxism would bring about a better situation for the human condition, it must be noted that their actions helped perpetrate a system that led to human suffering on a scale that not even the Nazis could approach. At some point one needs to come to terms with the evil of a system that he or she may have been ignorantly faithful to, and that time has long past.

3) Obama's investigated relationship with William Ayers. You want to talk about domestic terrorists? Let's talk about a guy who led a group of animals to go on a murdering spree in the name of violent overthrow of the U.S. Government. Bill Ayers now likes to chat it up with reporters in his affluent Hyde park Starbuck's and place his arm around Bernardine Dohrn and show gullible reporters (not unlike Congressional Black Caucus members) how nice he is. Yeah... Che was an aspiring doctor and Hitler loved children. While political dissidents continue, to this day, to disappear from the streets of Havanna and Caracas, our president undermines our staunch allies like Columbia and cozies to our theatrically appealing enemies. Any sane American with concern of the character and fidelity of the office of the president has to ask why a man would hold a guy like Ayers in such high regard.

4) No law enforcement agency, ever, has been held criminally or civilly liable for failing to protect the well-being of a citizen under assault. If the dispatcher makes a mistake, the police cruiser breaks down, etc etc etc ad nauseum, the department and its officers will not be held liable for a private citizen's safety when they couldn't respond quickly enough. Some states forcibly forbid one from carrying a weapon in certain areas, but then take no responsibility for failing to protect the disarmed when a madman violates this statute (insert random school shooting here). Given this, and the fact that every state in our union protects by law one's ability to defend oneself by deadly force if necessary, it seems rather illogical to protect one's right to self defense while stifling one's right to the means of self defense... and yet our president has appointed an attorney general who is attempting to subvert the 2nd Amendment via international treaty, constitution of the land be damned.

5) While we're on the subject of guns, let's talk about the Militia, and your and LGF's contributors tendency in general to view pro-militia folks as crazy right-wing radicals. While I do agree that a good deal of militias have gun-toting nuts in them, keep in mind that the Latin-literate Founders specifically referred to a Militia, and not an organized military force-- volgus militum. Surely the Founders knew that in order to provide for the security of a Free State, one must consider the status of Freedom within the State. Is it really so radical to believe in the right of the people to maintain the ability to form a militia? I just had a cop in my hometown get busted for falsifying an attack. How many cops in NYC or DC have connections to the Mob? Do you place more trust in maintaining your safety in the government, or in yourself?

238 Sleepyone  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:35pm

re: #191 Charles

Search Google for "we're all right wing extremists now".

Only 681, 000 or so hits!

I only clicked on the first one and on a cursory glance it seems they are playing with the phrase and not being totally serious or self-identifying as an extremist.

I just find it hard to believe that anyone would seriously identify themselves as an "extremist" anything other than some crazy kook.

I'm sure there are some out there though.

239 MrMisanthrope  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:36pm

re: #135 MandyManners

First two paragraphs of the second story:
Two deputies killed by a soldier they were trying to arrest had exchanged multiple rounds with the man, authorities said Sunday, a day after the men were killed.
The soldier began shooting while on the ground after he was shocked with a stun gun.

BULLSHIT. His primary occupation was selling phones.

Thank you. THIS is exactly the spin that Vets like me get pissed about.

240 Danny  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:47pm

re: #227 Alouette

Doesn't "spiking" harm the tree?

Generally, no.

241 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:48pm

re: #207 albusteve

but he was...face the facts

Where do you see that?

242 JenBee  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:57:53pm

Yep, so certainly this proves that Janet Napolitano was correct, and right wing extremists are the bane of society and the biggest threat we face here in America.

As we all know, craziness lurks in every segment of society, and to point to this and allude that it somehow validates Napolitano's singling out of right wing extremists is indeed quite lame.

let the dinging down begin.

243 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:58:09pm

re: #232 MandyManners
Thanks Mandy. I would have gone and read it(much later).

244 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:58:11pm

re: #235 pingjockey

No, that's why I asked. Up here in the Northwest we have the serious threat of lefty loons doing serious damage/personal injury in the name of Gaia.

the MSM is my dire enemy

245 medaura18586  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:58:11pm

re: #82 lawhawk

Meanwhile, a couple of honest to goodness terrorists were sentenced to life (or life +30), as the Fort Dix Six get their comeuppance.

All of them except one or two are ethnic Albanians originally from Macedonia (or rather FRYOM, lest Greek heads explode)... Utterly shameful.

I remember the usual suspects from the Serbian lobby seething with glee when this happened, and Srdja Trifkovic trying to twist their identity into Kosovar Albanian for his own purposes (Macedonian Albanians and Kosovar Albanians have very little interaction among each-other). But I do find it interesting that they were all illegal immigrants, raised in the U.S. from a very early age (one of the Duka brothers was 3 years old, the other 4 years old, when their family moved to the U.S.)

Whatever Islamic radicalism they learned, they learned it in this country. Their actual relatives in Macedonia strongly condemned the act.

“They must have been crazy. They shouldn't dare throw a stone at America,” said Rrahmi Duka, 70, a distant relative of the brothers, as a loudspeaker blared Muslim prayers in Debar's main square.

“Who saved us? America,” he said. “We are in America's hands.”

Unlike those Western European countries that opened their doors to uncontrolled Muslim immigration (especially from the Arab world), the U.S. has been very successful at integrating its immigrants. The economic landscape of America has been crucial to the incentives for integration, with its emphasis on entrepreneurship and self-dependence, and the practically unlimited opportunities for upward mobility. But all these cultural and economic institutions presuppose legality for partaking in. Illegal immigrants gravitate toward ghettoization, illiteracy, and radicalism. It partially explains why the Duka brothers grew more radical in the U.S. than their relatives did in Macedonia.

I'm so glad they got their asses served though. Friggin' ingrates!

246 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:58:12pm

re: #233 MandyManners

I tend to get my knickers in a twist about the subject of DV. I apologize for being a bit cranky, Dianna.

It's all right.

247 drogheda  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:58:17pm

re: #227 Alouette

Doesn't "spiking" harm the tree?

I don't expect it does. Trees will grow around stuff that's hammered into them. I know you can find nails and staples and fence wire grown into wood.

248 Gus 802  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:58:18pm

re: #211 loppyd

From the report:

“It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single-issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration,”

That is broad but I would say that it says it "may" include groups and individuals. If it targeted all of the said groups and individuals it would read:

It includes groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single-issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration...

I know it's rather nuanced.

249 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:59:45pm

Here we go. The determined point-missers are showing up.

250 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 6:59:52pm

re: #241 Dianna

Where do you see that?

he was paranoid that BO was out to get him...the perception is, right wing killer...connect the dots

251 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:00:31pm

"Cartwright's 21-year-old wife, Elizabeth, told deputies her husband was not attending anger management counseling - something the court ordered after Cartwright was charged with domestic battery against Elizabeth in late 2008."

If he had turned up to his recruitment interview with the above credentials he would've been sent packing.

Why as it acceptable to have a wife beating violent sociopath in the military, and yet the military wonders why when a few of their volunteers go off the deep end it give s them a bad name.

The military needs to clean house, especially since raising the bar on criminal convictions, it does nothing but create bad publicity.

Or maybe he kept it well hidden from the military?

252 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:00:32pm

Detail from the story..

"They approached him, he was uncooperative, they utilized the Taser, and he went down to the ground," Spooner said Sunday. "He came up firing with a gun nobody saw. He probably had it concealed somewhere."

Police are routinely criticized for being too aggressive with their Tasers and triggering them multiple times. Remember this story next time that BS comes up. And Tasers are OK, but Nightsticks and 4D Maglites are good too.

Sickening story but not all that hard to believe something like this could happen with all the RW Nutjob idiots on the radio, the internet, and out in the neighborhood bars spouting conspiracy theories to anyone who will listen, winding up the ignorant racist whack-job robots to go do something about it.

My thoughts are with the family and friends of the deputies.

253 irongrampa  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:00:43pm

re: #224 Slumbering Behemoth

Apology wasn't necessary, but thank you nonetheless.
You did make me realize something, from my reaction, that recently it seems that there is an undercurrent of anger running through all our lives.
Do you understand what I meant by that? I've experienced this in quite a few areas, just anecdotally, of course.Be interested on your take regarding this.

254 loppyd  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:01:03pm

re: #248 Gus 802

I know it's rather nuanced.

If they used your version they would need to back it up with examples. Using the "may" allows them to paint millions with a very broad brush.

255 MrMisanthrope  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:01:06pm

re: #136 rawmuse
Left wing extremists already had their own DHS report(s).

Really? I have not seen that one.


That's because they fail to say things like:
"College Frosh, in particular, are at risk for being recurited by violent Moonbats" the way they say Vets are at particular risk for being recruited by violent fascist nutters...

256 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:01:23pm

re: #247 drogheda
Think of a 16 penny nail with no head hammered into a tree.
BBL

257 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:01:48pm

re: #241 Dianna

Where do you see that?

All I see is a single reference to it in the first story, the fifth paragraph.

258 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:02:07pm

You would not believe the permits I had to get...

259 jaunte  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:02:45pm

re: #251 unpaidbills

Or maybe he kept it well hidden from the military?

Keeping it well hidden is part of it. It's a very difficult behavior for law enforcement to detect; sometimes the rest of the family doesn't know.

260 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:03:01pm
261 MrMisanthrope  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:03:03pm

re: #146 Gus 802

Correct. It would be no different then a Liberal Democrat coming up with excuses for left wing extremist acts such as the initial Black Panthers or Earth Liberation Front, etc. Or if they would identify themselves with "left-wing extremists."

You mean like excusing the existence of "Representitive" Bobby Rush (D-Felon/Black Panther)?

262 quickjustice  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:03:09pm

Crazy is as crazy does. This guy was really bothered by his zits. ;-)

263 lightspeed  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:03:20pm

re: #126 Charles

And that's ANOTHER reason why it's important for conservatives to speak out against this kind of crap instead of bitching and moaning about the DHS report.

Sigh. Here is where I have a problem with this story and every other one like it - the guy's political views had nothing whatsoever to do with the crimes he committed. He killed two deputies who were trying to arrest him on a domestic violence beef. Period. There is no indication in this article that he intentionally sought out police to kill because of his political views. None. I don't even get why his views on Obama and the government are even part of the story.

This was a case of a mentally imbalance man shooting two cops to try to stay out of jail. Politics didn't enter into it. And being "'severely disturbed' that Barack Obama had been elected president, and believed the U.S. government was conspiring against him" DOES NOT make him a right-wing extremist. The former sentiment is pretty mainstream and the latter is shared by kooks of all stripes...and it had nothing to do with the killings.

264 NYCHardhat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:03:29pm

Anyway you slice it I still couldn't find a box of 9X19mm luger at my local store.

265 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:03:42pm

re: #257 MandyManners

All I see is a single reference to it in the first story, the fifth paragraph.

with respect...it is not about reality exclusive but about perception...the guy was crazy

266 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:03:48pm

re: #247 drogheda

I don't expect it does. Trees will grow around stuff that's hammered into them. I know you can find nails and staples and fence wire grown into wood.

Hit a large spike in a tree with a chainsaw, the chain snaps and whips around, chainsaw can buck out of the cut. Can do serious damage to a person.

267 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:04:04pm

re: #242 JenBee

Look, nobody said that right wing extremists were the bane of society. This over reaction helps no one and it makes conservatives look like a bunch of whiners. Quit it already!

268 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:04:19pm

re: #183 rawmuse

Oh well, profiling sucks. It is another form of collectivism, which I reject. Profiling has now been outlawed in the airports, as has been richly documented on these and other threads.

If you got a beef against a specific person or persons, fine, but I think we all can agree that it sucks to tar entire classes of citizens based on the actions of a few.

We can accept that 1) some people who commit heinous actions share political stances with a particular group without 2) that entailing the likelihood that the group members are predisposed to commit similar actions due to the political stances they embrace. The second is not a logical consequence of the first.

269 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:04:32pm

re: #265 albusteve

with respect...it is not about reality exclusive but about perception...the guy was crazy

He was NOT CRAZY. He was meaner than a snake with an over-blown sense of self.

270 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:04:36pm

re: #250 albusteve

he was paranoid that BO was out to get him...the perception is, right wing killer...connect the dots

Oh, I see. Satire.

I can be dreadfully thick.

271 ArmyWife  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:05:05pm

re: #251 unpaidbills

The Army has gone PC in ways you can't imagine. Again, I don't know the specifics of this guy, so I am speaking in general terms. I'm also only speaking on ancedotal evidence as gleaned from conversations with Mr. ArmyWife who gets very, very frustrated when he wants to remove someone who doesn't belong in the Army. The kindler, gentler and all inclusive Army has its drawbacks.

272 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:05:43pm

Ooooh! Birchers ahead!

273 rawmuse  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:05:45pm

Disturbed individuals bearing high powered weapons, I ain't gonna try to convince them of a damn thing. They can read LGF on their own :)

274 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:06:00pm

re: #251 unpaidbills

"Cartwright's 21-year-old wife, Elizabeth, told deputies her husband was not attending anger management counseling - something the court ordered after Cartwright was charged with domestic battery against Elizabeth in late 2008."

If he had turned up to his recruitment interview with the above credentials he would've been sent packing.

Why as it acceptable to have a wife beating violent sociopath in the military, and yet the military wonders why when a few of their volunteers go off the deep end it give s them a bad name.

The military needs to clean house, especially since raising the bar on criminal convictions, it does nothing but create bad publicity.

Or maybe he kept it well hidden from the military?

National Guard, and he sold phones as his day job.

275 MrMisanthrope  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:06:35pm

re: #186 Gus 802

The report didn't target those groups: pro-life or anti-immigration. It only identified those issues as having the potential to be used as means to garner recruitment by extremist groups or to attract lone-wolf actors as it were.

Like enrollment at, say, Stanford or Berkley, (or, or, or...)?

276 Mad Mullah  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:06:42pm

Do I condemn this guy? I certainly do, he obviously had some sort of mental issues and crazy people often do crazy things.

I also think that the secretary of the DHS is an extremist and I also condemn her statements where she claimed that illegal immigration is not a crime.

277 albusteve  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:07:04pm

re: #269 MandyManners

He was NOT CRAZY. He was meaner than a snake with an over-blown sense of self.

that too...'crazy' is too loose to use if you need to pin it down even further...suffice to say he has some mental problems whatever they call it

278 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:07:11pm
279 LGoPs  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:07:29pm

Later lizards

280 Gus 802  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:09:33pm

re: #261 MrMisanthrope

You mean like excusing the existence of "Representitive" Bobby Rush (D-Felon/Black Panther)?

He was the founder of the Illinois Chapter of the Black Panthers. Convicted of a felony weapons charge and sentenced to 6 months in prison. No doubt an extremist.

So are you saying that if he's excused by the Democratic Party that we should excuse right-wing-extremists?

281 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:09:33pm

Later LGops

282 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:09:49pm

re: #276 Mad Mullah

Do I condemn this guy? I certainly do, he obviously had some sort of mental issues and crazy people often do crazy things.

I also think that the secretary of the DHS is an extremist and I also condemn her statements where she claimed that illegal immigration is not a crime.

Janet Napolitano did not personally write the report on right wing extremism.

284 Dianna  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:10:40pm

re: #269 MandyManners

He was NOT CRAZY. He was meaner than a snake with an over-blown sense of self.

Maybe.

We all have a tendency to focus on certain aspects. I'm looking both at the DV aspect and the statements on his views. I admit to being more interested by the paranoid elements than the DV, mostly because he appears to have been one of those irrationally angry people.

285 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:10:40pm

re: #211 loppyd

From the report:

“It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single-issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration,”

People dedicated to the single issue of antiabortionism shot and killed three people in my hometown, shot and wounded another, and firebombed clinics a half a dozen times. I think that qualifies as extreme.

286 Gus 802  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:11:05pm

re: #275 MrMisanthrope

Like enrollment at, say, Stanford or Berkley, (or, or, or...)?

Stanford?

287 drogheda  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:11:08pm

re: #256 pingjockey

Think of a 16 penny nail with no head hammered into a tree.
BBL

re: #266 jcm

Hit a large spike in a tree with a chainsaw, the chain snaps and whips around, chainsaw can buck out of the cut. Can do serious damage to a person.

My response was to Alouette who asked:

Doesn't "spiking" harm the tree?

My response was indicating that spiking a tree is not likely to harm the tree. It was not meant to imply that hitting an embedded object metallic or other material would not be potentially problematic when cutting into a tree.

288 medaura18586  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:11:47pm

re: #163 Zimriel

Define "neocon". Hint: it does not mean "magic word which instantly discredits all your opponents".

I am not aware of anyone, except for a self-declared neo-con, using that label without sounding like an utter douche -- for what it's worth.

289 loppyd  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:12:42pm

re: #285 Salamantis

People dedicated to the single issue of antiabortionism shot and killed three people in my hometown, shot and wounded another, and firebombed clinics a half a dozen times. I think that qualifies as extreme.

What year did this take place?

290 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:12:54pm

re: #237 ArdentCapitalist

And what of us GWOT veterans who have polar views to the Obama administration who have these following concerns?

1) [Look over here! ACORN! The census!]
2) [Marxism!]
3) [thumb-sucking over Ayers, again]
4) [2nd Amendment]
5) [pro-militia]

Most of these points have been made already - except for your defence of the right to form right-wing paramilitaries, which is insane.

The point about Ayers, in particular, is a dead one. Obama used Ayers to get his passport for Chicago politics; once he entered Congress, he had no more use for Ayers. The voters would appear to have agreed on that point; Obama won anyway.

The timing of your rant, in particular, couldn't be worse. You are acting as if you were trying to change the subject, or even to rationalise what this nitwit did.

291 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:13:42pm

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

You're pumping a dry well with that suggestion. My jokes are strictly unrefined and unsophisticated.

292 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:14:45pm

re: #288 medaura18586

I am not aware of anyone, except for a self-declared neo-con, using that label without sounding like an utter douche -- for what it's worth.

Wait 'till you start a follower of Stiglitz and/or Klein talking about "neo-liberals". Your brain will try to escape through your ears.

293 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:17:43pm
294 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:17:46pm

I'm reminded of a novel I read by Alfred Bester titled "The demolished Man". It was a future time when psychics could predict who would commit murder and law enforcement could intervene before the crime took place.

295 lobo91  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:19:10pm

re: #271 ArmyWife

The Army has gone PC in ways you can't imagine. Again, I don't know the specifics of this guy, so I am speaking in general terms. I'm also only speaking on ancedotal evidence as gleaned from conversations with Mr. ArmyWife who gets very, very frustrated when he wants to remove someone who doesn't belong in the Army. The kindler, gentler and all inclusive Army has its drawbacks.

The individual in question was an E-4 in the Florida Guard. Chances are, he's been in a couple of years, given National Guard promotions. The previous domestic violence charge was from the fall of 2008, and was described in one of the stories as being "pending," which means he hadn't actually been convicted of anything yet.

Once he was actually convicted, the Lautenberg Act would have kicked in. He would have been barred from reenlistment, and prohibited from handling weapons. His military career, such as it was, would have been over.

He also would have been prohibited from possession of civilian firearms. If he was aware of that fact, it might provide a hint as to his motivation for shooting it out with the deputies (given his apparent interest in weapons).

296 2by2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:19:16pm

hi jcm,
how is the six car garage working out?
I fell for it on the previous thread. nice work.

297 Gus 802  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:19:21pm

Long hair cop killers?

298 Lightspeed  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:19:31pm

I am certain, as we learn more about this guy, that other "important" facts about him will surface. Such as:

* He was an avid player of the Grand Theft Auto series of video games
* He was a fan of IceT and/or Judas Priest
* He had heard the Beatles song "Helter Skelter"
* He was a fan of Jodie Foster
* He read Catcher in the Rye
* etc...

None of which, like his political views, had anything to do with him murdering two cops. In addition to publishing the full, initialed names of these killers, are we going to start publishing their party affiliations as well?!

299 Danny  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:20:41pm

re: #284 Dianna

Maybe.

We all have a tendency to focus on certain aspects. I'm looking both at the DV aspect and the statements on his views. I admit to being more interested by the paranoid elements than the DV, mostly because he appears to have been one of those irrationally angry people.

PMFJI, but in a nutshell (no pun intended), the guy probably had serious anger management issues. I'm guessing he was angry about many things, most or all out of his control, and did not have the capacity to deal with his anger. Little things like the missing Clearasil sent him into a rage. Multiply that tenfold or more and that's what happened when they tasered him. He lost all self-control.

300 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:23:30pm

If anyone cares about my point in posting these articles, see my previous comments in this thread.

301 lobo91  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:23:49pm

re: #298 Lightspeed

If the standard MSM procedure continues to apply, yes, but only if they're Republicans.

302 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:24:37pm

re: #289 loppyd

What year did this take place?

Over several years in the '80's. When one antiabortion murderer received a death sentence and another one received a life sentence, and four clinic firebombers received prison time, and a major antiabortion organizer here who ran an unwed mother's home was convicted for sexual abuse of the pregnant teens in his care and received a lengthy sentence, it tamped it down.

But why does that matter? Clinic firebombings occur to this very day (there have been more than a hundred nationwide).

303 Maui Girl  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:25:02pm

As I'm sure many others are, I also am severly disturbed at the election of Barack Obama but it's not driving me to shoot anyone.

Can we go back and look at a few crazies killing innocents after Bush was first elected and then re-elected? Were there any desperately disturbed leftist wingnuts killing people? Oh wait, how about during Clinton's administration...?

Interesting statistic. Had a customer from Chicago in the shop today and he was saying that 1 out every 100 people in the greater Chicago area belongs to a gang. Wow, can that be true?

304 Conservative Moonbat  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:25:25pm

re: #263 lightspeed

Sigh. Here is where I have a problem with this story and every other one like it - the guy's political views had nothing whatsoever to do with the crimes he committed. He killed two deputies who were trying to arrest him on a domestic violence beef. Period. There is no indication in this article that he intentionally sought out police to kill because of his political views. None. I don't even get why his views on Obama and the government are even part of the story.

If there's a statistical correlation showing that people who believe in leprechauns are more likely to engage in acts of violent crime, then that's a reason to be especially wary of people who believe in leprechauns. If people with particular political views are statistically more likely to be violent it's no different. You've got to remove the content of those political views from the equation and just look at the facts.

305 jcm  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:25:42pm

re: #296 2by2

hi jcm,
how is the six car garage working out?
I fell for it on the previous thread. nice work.

You were the only one back there, had to try again.

306 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:26:10pm

re: #253 irongrampa

Well, we humans are not docile beasts. We are predators, top of the food chain omnivores. So I think there is an "undercurrent of anger" in all of us, as part of our nature.

What makes us different from true beasts of the wild is our ability to reason, and control ourselves and our darker urges.

For instance, I used to have a problem with road rage. After a while I noticed that after 30 minutes of commuting during peak traffic, I would come home with migraine headaches. Once the problem was identified, I realized that this constant, pointless anger was not good for my physical or mental health, and I just decided to let go of it.

Cut me off, tailgate me, drive slow in the fast lane, whatever. I refused to blow a fuse over it, and the headaches disappeared.

307 loppyd  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:26:44pm

re: #302 Salamantis

Over several years in the '80's. When one antiabortion murderer received a death sentence and another one received a life sentence, and four clinic firebombers received prison time, and a major antiabortion organizer here who ran an unwed mother's home was convicted for sexual abuse of the pregnant teens in his care and received a lengthy sentence, it tamped it down.

But why does that matter? Clinic firebombings occur to this very day (there have been more than a hundred nationwide).

It matters in relation to this report.

308 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:27:19pm

re: #65 MandyManners

Couldn't he have been picked up for not obeying a court order?

I figure they had bigger, and safer, fish to fry. There's a lot of "path of least resistance" thinking out there, everywhere; LE is, sadly, no different.

Case in point, in a certain town I know: local LE have a choice: they can pull over speeders in the "good" part of town all day and night, and write quite the number of tickets, and do a lot to reduce unsafe driving in the area.

Or, they can go execute warrants and search for armed fugitives, in the "bad" part of town. You've got a family and a job that barely makes the ends meet: which activity seems to offer the best reward to risk ratio?

309 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:28:44pm

re: #307 loppyd

It matters in relation to this report.

Then this sentence should matter in relation to this report:

Clinic firebombings occur to this very day (there have been more than a hundred nationwide).

310 Capitalistincharge  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:28:48pm

Up is down and down is Up. Our society and political parties are splitting at the seams and battle lines being drawn, all by a minority. A majority of Americans are still "baseball, hot dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet" while allowing idiotic politicians and extremists..both left & right ...define who and what we are. It's pure fiction, all of it. Unfortunately, the script is being written by those who are just freaking insane and illogical (politicians and journalists and media freaks on both sides) and they are making the loudest noise. As conservatives we need to distance ourselves from the right-wing extremists, loudly. Arlen Spector is just another example of a career politician who has no principal to stand on as a leader and is doing the truly self-serving thing by changing parties so he can save his own ass. Keith Olberman and Glenn Beck are basically the same shit, just different sides yet they are loud and sheeple are listening. Rational, intelligent thought no longer dominates the media,agenda driven divisiveness does and it is damaging to society as a whole. Politicians are more concerned with raising money and playing the game while morals, commitment and conviction be damned. We have a President who no longer adheres to the principal of "the buck stops here" and instead diverts responsibility while parading narcissism as an enviable goal. I'm not the only one who is fed up and ready for a real change, but organizing and purging and rebuilding...well I haven't a clue how to get it done. Anybody?

311 2by2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:29:14pm

re: #305 jcm

You were the only one back there, had to try again.

thanks for that, any other takers?

312 LeonidasOfSparta  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:29:46pm

Extremists are extremists and individuals who murder or beat their wives or hate blacks or commit crimes or wear shoes that are too tight or kick their dogs are not necessarily "right wingers or left wingers"-- TFK suggested that they be called "no wingers" which speaks volumes.

These extremists may find some solace in the company of this or that political fringe group, but that does not make their crimes political or reflective of a groupthink. Most zealots are driven by an individual hate that keeps moving-- the target of who they hate moves and eludes them and ultimately their zeal can never be satisfied.

Right and Left wing politics have little to do with the formation of such individuals. SDS and the Black Panther Party groups were and still are filled with just as many hatefilled individual kooks as the KKK and the White Supremecist organizations. Their hates were and are always "THEM" (Whitey or Blacky or the "pigs" "establishment" or whatever "group" they could label, blame and hunt.)

But ultimately, these right/left wing groups are filled with individuals who pursue a life of anger and blame and hate. THAT sort of person is on both ends of the political spectrum.

This guy was a kook. He was plagued by many demons.

313 loppyd  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:32:56pm

re: #309 Salamantis

Then this sentence should matter in relation to this report:

Clinic firebombings occur to this very day (there have been more than a hundred nationwide).

And they should name the specific groups they are targeting.

Which they did not do.

They lumped millions of people who hold a pro-life or anti-immigration stance into this report which was targeting terrorist activity.

314 hokiepride  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:38:54pm

A lot of heads exploded when the DHS report was released and even I thought that it was a tad unfair. However, these nuts do exist and keeping an eye out for them is wise strategy, especially since kooks like Glenn Beck keep spouting their BS on national TV.

315 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:40:33pm

re: #314 hokiepride

I know Beck is a buffoon, but do you consider him dangerous?

316 Lightspeed  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:40:43pm

re: #304 Conservative Moonbat

If people with particular political views are statistically more likely to be violent it's no different.

Wow. Bring on the thought police. Give me 30 mintues and I will find you a statisical correlation between violent behavior and any political views you want to tar and feather. Hell, I can produce statistics that show that people who watch "American Idol" are 3-5 times more likely than the general population to murder a homeless veteran if you give me enough time. Once we start criminally profiling people based on their political views, we have crossed a very serious line. Reason? Ultimately it is the politicians currently in charge who will decide what "statistics" to use.

317 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:42:19pm

re: #315 BatGuano

I know Beck is a buffoon, but do you consider him dangerous?

BY the way, welcome to LGF! :)

318 2by2  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:42:34pm

Once the political process becomes extremely polarized, it is very difficult to return to a civil discourse.
I believe we are seeing a bit of polarization, which compare to European party affiliations, which are mostly "tribal".
There is a such a gap/moat between European parties on the left and right aka liberal/conservative, that one can't really talk about issues, but tribal affiliations.
Woe to the US, if the political process becomes Europeanized.
This used to be the country where issues were decisive, not affiliations.
Kudos to Charles, who is still following that tradition and tries to get down to the issues in question.

319 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:43:21pm

re: #316 Lightspeed

You mean, "lies, damn lies, and statistics"- Clemens.

320 Danny  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:43:29pm

I know this is probably somewhat anecdotal, but here is a law enforcement-oriented forum discussing the pluses and minuses of the DHS memo. The opinions are all over the map. Sorta like here. :)

[Link: forums.officer.com...]

321 So What  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:44:26pm

Charles, With all of the discussion on right wing extremist With the DHS conducting this investigation , I ask could they not and why not look into organizations such as ACORN and go public with that finding? I imagine that they could find a few kooks there with records already who would make good recruits for that citizen army. Or would that be against Obama's interest and theirs? This has already become a political football and I think we can thank the director. What recourse does the right have?

322 abolitionist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:48:54pm

re: #238 Sleepyone

Only 681, 000 or so hits!

I only clicked on the first one and on a cursory glance it seems they are playing with the phrase and not being totally serious or self-identifying as an extremist.

I just find it hard to believe that anyone would seriously identify themselves as an "extremist" anything other than some crazy kook.

I'm sure there are some out there though.

"... I considered myself partly an anarchist then and I consider myself partly an anarchist now. I mean I'm as much an anarchist as I am a marxist ..which is to say, you know, I ..I find a lot of the ideas in anarchism, you know, appealing." --A Guy in the Neighborhood, about 12 April 2002.

323 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:49:11pm

re: #313 loppyd

And they should name the specific groups they are targeting.

Which they did not do.

They lumped millions of people who hold a pro-life or anti-immigration stance into this report which was targeting terrorist activity.

Most of the people who perpetuated these attacks in my hometown were 'lone wolves', who showed up for antiabortion protests at clinics, but weren't members of any particular antiabortion organization.

So we shouldn't keep an eye out for such people in order to avoid offending your tender sensibilities?

Profiling works. While only a tiny percentage of young Muslim men will try to blow up an airliner in flight or seize it and fly it into a skyscraper, it is a much greater percentage than the percentage of elderly Amish ladies who would attempt such a thing. So if you can search only one of two people boarding your plane, which will you choose to search?

The same thing goes for antiabortionists and the firebombers of clinics and the murderrs of doctors and clinic escorts. You don't surveil the bearded dudes at the food co-op who are wearing rainbow rasta caps and never attend clinic protests; you surveil the people who shows up screaming at abortion clinics and try to beat the women entering with their bloody-fetus-on-a-stick placards (as a clinic escort, I shielded these women from such blows many times, absorbing them with my own body). Of the seven people who committed the crimes I mentioned, I saw five of them protesting at abortion clinics while I was serving as a clinic escort, and the other two were women married to two of those five).

It doesn't have to do with what is or is not politically incorrect to whoever - it has to do with statistics and history.

324 brandon13  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:52:36pm

Just how I want to see my hometown making news on LGF.

What a pathetic human being.

325 Lightspeed  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:53:10pm

re: #319 BatGuano

You mean, "lies, damn lies, and statistics"- Clemens.

Actually, that quote is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli. Clemens (Twain) popularised it in the States, though. Good quote, though. Here are two more:

It has long recognized by public men of all kinds ... that statistics come under the head of lying, and that no lie is so false or inconclusive as that which is based on statistics. - H.Belloc

Like dreams, statistics are a form of wish fulfillment. - J.Baudrillard

326 bkgodfrey  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:54:36pm

Not sure if it's been noted yet, but the two officers killed were former military themselves. There are crazies and heroes in both the military and civilian worlds. God bless those two officers and their families. We are all grateful for their service to this nation.

327 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:57:16pm

re: #325 Lightspeed

Actually, that quote is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli. Clemens (Twain) popularised it in the States, though. Good quote, though. Here are two more:

It has long recognized by public men of all kinds ... that statistics come under the head of lying, and that no lie is so false or inconclusive as that which is based on statistics. - H.Belloc

Like dreams, statistics are a form of wish fulfillment. - J.Baudrillard

Statistics are just as good, or as bad, at prediction as computers are at computing; If (but only if) garbage in, then (but only then) garbage out. If one properly selects one's input, however, one's output will be useful and veridical.

328 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:57:18pm

re: #92 irongrampa

This is disturbing. I lean considerably to the right, and can forsee the time when everyone like me will be tarred with the extremist label.
Long time ago, I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Never disavowed that oath.
I don't advocate violence defending my positions, yet I'm lumped in with those who DO.
If believing in small gov't, minimal taxes, strong defense,and living my life legally, morally and ethically means I'm a right wing extremist, then I'll wear that label with no regret.

The best way to not get lumped in with guys like this is to be very vocal about not supporting, empathizing, or apologizing for their motives or behaviors.

329 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:57:35pm

re: #325 Lightspeed

Thank you for the clarification. I had always heard it attributed to Clemens and it is a good quote. Also like the quote from Baudrillard.

330 Whippet  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 7:59:06pm

Charles,
Who exactly did write the DHS report?

331 BatGuano  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:02:51pm

GIGO!
"If one properly selects one's input..." That is always a sticking point. What is relevant input? That is why the best and brightest in all fields have lively discussions. These things are endlessly fascinating.

332 Lightspeed  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:07:13pm

re: #323 Salamantis

Profiling works.

Profiling is a poor man's substitute for actual police work. When any government entity starts investigating and surveiling people for completely legal activity, that government is on the way to becoming a police state.

Why not make the police's job even easier? Not all Muslims are Middle Eastern in appearance, so they might be hard to spot, no? Why not make a law that all Muslims must wear a star and crescent patch on their clothing. Christians could wear a cross, Jews the Star of David. Whoops, do you see where this is going?

333 Glackinspeil  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:07:30pm

2012 is right around the corner people... Were the Mayans onto something?

334 ArdentCapitalist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:08:32pm

re: #251 unpaidbills

The military needs to clean house, especially since raising the bar on criminal convictions, it does nothing but create bad publicity.

Or maybe he kept it well hidden from the military?

re: #251 unpaidbills

The military needs to clean house, especially since raising the bar on criminal convictions, it does nothing but create bad publicity.

Or maybe he kept it well hidden from the military?

Actually, I can speak for the Marine Corps as I was assigned to recruiting duty for several months while awaiting MOS training. The Marine Corps back about, oh I dunno, maybe ten years ago stopped accepting GEDs for enlistment and would only accept high school graduates. The one problem with this policy was that homeschooled kids, all of the ones I encountered in the recruiting process, were exceptionally well-qualified individuals to serve, but required a district-level waiver sent by a Lieutenant Colonel to higher ranks, or 15 college credits. While this policy was a pain in the ass for recruiters wanting to bring on board excellent homeschooled kids, the policy was founded in a Marine Corps-wide study of first-enlistment courts-martial or adverse non-judicial punishments. I believe it was something to the effect of 90+% of those individuals were not high school graduates and/or convicted of a misdemeanor before enlistment.

I can't speak for the army's current policies, but the Corps cleaned up its recruiting standards a while back, in fact at the time I was recruiting, felonies were still considered by the army on a waiver-able basis... so in theory, someone convicted of robbery could be admitted on a waiver.

335 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:09:18pm

I've got to start watching this Beck guy everyone talks about. I need to see for myself how nuts he really is. I respect your opinions, but they are opinions none the less.

Well, 2012 is around the corner. The Hillary's reset button will be pushed in a big way.

336 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:10:46pm

re: #333 Glackinspeil

2012 is right around the corner people... Were the Mayans onto something?

Funny. I just said the same thing

337 Glackinspeil  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:12:24pm

re: #336 Hooray for Captain Spaulding


Makes ya just go "hmmm"

338 ArdentCapitalist  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:18:01pm

re: #328 funky chicken

The best way to not get lumped in with guys like this is to be very vocal about not supporting, empathizing, or apologizing for their motives or behaviors.

I don't think he's trying to agree with the actions of this lunatic, it's just that he fears a bumbling bureaucratic surveillance-minded law enforcement community clumping all pro-gun-rights advocates who believe in the right of individuals to maintain the means of self defense through arms into the same group with the extremists. That is a bit scary.

Unfortunately for me and a good deal of my fellow GWOT veterans, we tend to be very conservative, and we are staunch supporters of the 2nd amendment. Guys like me are afraid that some law enforcement monitoring agent will believe that I am a possible violent extremist because I'm a vet with a lot of training, I believe in the individual right to arms, and share none of the current administration's political views.

339 lobo91  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:21:38pm

re: #320 Danny

I know this is probably somewhat anecdotal, but here is a law enforcement-oriented forum discussing the pluses and minuses of the DHS memo. The opinions are all over the map. Sorta like here. :)

[Link: forums.officer.com...]

My favorite post:

This was on FOX News morning show today.

Its says LES but there is no information that I saw in it that would warrant restricting this information, no source material, no actionable intelligence, no methods and practices. Just racial profiling, anti military/Veteran, and far left propaganda masquerading as an intelligence brief.

Who ever wrote this garbage is a dangerous leftwing extremist paranoid, speculating only on political leanings that many if not most Americans hold, and probably most of us in law enforcement.

I couldn't agree more.

340 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:41:14pm

A mentally ill nut with a history of violence kills some police over a tube of Clearasil justifies the broad brushed DHS report?

Call me crazy but I thought the DHS was interested in stopping organized groups of terrorist planning major acts of violence to further their political agenda. I had no idea they were in the business of local law enforcement and preventing domestic disputes over Clearasil in cases where, "'None of it makes sense."

341 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:47:42pm

re: #259 jaunte

without being disrespectful but when a national guardsman goes through the court system for domestic violence and anger management then someone somewhere in the military has got to know or has to be informed by law enforcement agencies.

342 tom from pv  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:49:21pm

re: #209 Charles

Not if you speak out and make it clear you renounce this kind of crap.

Why should anyone have to renounce anything when some crazy idiot goes off and kills somebody? There is no relationship between conservatism and mental patients. Most likely the same holds true for liberals.

The model of the political spectrum put forth ("right wing - moderates - left wing") is so simplistic as to be useless in a serious forum like this. There seems to be an odd implication in these threads that anyone who owns a gun, or was in the military, or hates Obama must be a "right winger". Does it ever occur to people that many people aren't motivated by political thinking but rather by hate or some other anti-social feeling?

Once again, Al Capone used guns, targeted Democrats, but wasn't a right winger. He was just a vicious SOB. Much like the people featured in all these stories.

Remember I'm the skeptical guy who doesn't "go along to get along" - I make up my own mind based on facts not circular logic. There is no need for any conservative to be concerned about the actions of idiots like this. If you disagree, then please prove to me how you "know" what this guy was thinking and that, for certain, he was motivated by politics. Good luck on that.

343 Dru Down  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:50:10pm

Just a quick point of contention Charles. Army National Guard is not the same as the Army Reserves. Other than that, carry on.

344 thebigolddog  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:50:52pm

re: #341 unpaidbills

If you bounce a check in the Army they are informed and face military discipline in addition to civil penalties.

345 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:54:01pm

re: #338 ArdentCapitalist

sadly this genocidal mysoginistic wife beating racist "national guardsman" has put all of our activities in the spot light.

and I'm not even trying to pretend that our keyboards are being monitored etc but the whole freedom thing will be questioned because of crazy f***s like this so called "national guardsman" joined in with the Ron Paul types and therefore we are sadly part of the link.

346 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 8:58:54pm

re: #342 tom from pv

democrats?
Capone targeted his own Italian community, the Mafia reigned terror on Mussolini fascist supporters in his own supporters and democrats who at the time were KKK supporters and members.


but no what most people on here are saying is that why should mentally ill people especially known wife beaters and abusers be allowed to own a gun but importantly why should they be in the military when they have active court records stating that they are a risk to their spouses.

347 unpaidbills  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:00:57pm

re: #344 thebigolddog

yet kick the shit out of your wife, rape beat her, legally own guns with multiple convictions then that's ok?
but bounce a check and hte military comes down hard on you?

no wonder we f***d up so badly in the middle east.

348 tom from pv  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:05:43pm

re: #335 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

I've got to start watching this Beck guy everyone talks about. I need to see for myself how nuts he really is. I respect your opinions, but they are opinions none the less.

I felt the same way given all the discussion here. Beck is on at 11 PM here and I gave up a lot of sleeping to watch him for a couple of weeks. The show is not a big deal, IMHO, just a look a the daily news from a conservative POV.

I know about Beck from the radio. He's a converted Mormon, so he's totally into the concept of stockpiling food, preparing for the bad times that 'are a comin', and protecting your community from the 'sinners'. His show is almost 100% about the evils of socialism, what the liberals are doing to us, and how the ordinary man can protect himself and family.

As a Californian, Beck sounds kind of quaint to me. I don't think he is "whacked out" in the sense that Keith Olbermann is whacked out. But I can definitely see how a true liberal who thinks Obama is a great guy will get agitated over him.

349 tom from pv  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:08:54pm

re: #346 unpaidbills

democrats?
Capone targeted his own Italian community, the Mafia reigned terror on Mussolini fascist supporters in his own supporters and democrats who at the time were KKK supporters and members.

Capone was hell on the Democrats who ran Chicago. He paid them off with the expectation they would stay bought. The southern Dems were the KKK types (anyone know Al Gore Seniors story on civil rights?)

We agree that he was neither right or left wing -- in fact no wing applied to him. Just like the lunatics in all these stories.

350 Charles  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:10:48pm

re: #342 tom from pv

Why should anyone have to renounce anything when some crazy idiot goes off and kills somebody?

So don't.

But I'm going to. Whether you like it or not.

351 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 9:43:28pm

re: #349 tom from pv

Capone was hell on the Democrats who ran Chicago. He paid them off with the expectation they would stay bought. The southern Dems were the KKK types (anyone know Al Gore Seniors story on civil rights?)

We agree that he was neither right or left wing -- in fact no wing applied to him. Just like the lunatics in all these stories.

Capone did support the Dems at times, but his biggest support was reserved for a Republican named William Hale "Big Bill" Thompson (who served as Mayor of Chicago from 1915 to 1923 and again from 1927 to 1931). Thompson enriched himself with mob graft and his corrupting of GOP organizations greatly contributed to the collapse of the Republican party in Chicago.

352 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 10:03:51pm

re: #332 Lightspeed

Profiling is a poor man's substitute for actual police work. When any government entity starts investigating and surveiling people for completely legal activity, that government is on the way to becoming a police state.

Why not make the police's job even easier? Not all Muslims are Middle Eastern in appearance, so they might be hard to spot, no? Why not make a law that all Muslims must wear a star and crescent patch on their clothing. Christians could wear a cross, Jews the Star of David. Whoops, do you see where this is going?

When most terrorists are affiliated with Wahhabi mosques, monitor Wahhabi mosques; when most doctor and clinic escort murderers and clinic firebombers attend clinic protests, monitor clinic protests.

Those are the places where law enforcement will find those whose commitment to ideas includes committing violence in their names. Because those are the places where most of those who committed such violence in the past could have been found.

353 shortshrift  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 11:44:11pm

An ideological extremist or merely "severely disturbed"? Criminal or idiot? An example of far right veteran violence or a veteran who is mad and violent? Look at the massacre of Muslims at prayer by a Brooklyn Jew. Was he a mad Jew, or a Jewish extremist, or a criminal who was also Jewish? The facts can be evidence for all three interpretations. Any specific perpetrator can be subjected to the same questions. This is why there comes a point (and I believe we are approaching it) when adducing yet another incident to demonstrate that there is extremism located at the end of the political spectrum on the right, actually becomes an exercise in psychological or sociological sensitivity. It may prove the DHS point that veterans may become violent - but that was not the point of the report itself, which has no point as far as I can see. It merely tells us that the DHS is sniffing around for potential terrorists. It is a fatuous piece of bureaucratic busy-work.

354 haakondahl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:10:26am

re: #237 ArdentCapitalist

And what of us GWOT veterans who have polar views to the Obama administration who have these following concerns?

You need to decide whether you will work within our system of government to improve our system of government, or work outside our system of government to bring down our system of government. Only one of these paths is open to you on this site.

355 Render  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:30:56am

TFK is quite correct...This entire exercise is media driven. Call it "pit bull" media, every single time a dog bites someone - it's a "pit bull" a breed that doesn't even officially exist.

Suddenly a domestic violence case goes horribly wrong (as they so often do) and a host of "right-wing" views are blamed. He had guns. He was military. He didn't like Obama. It's all BS, the guy was a thug and a women beater, those things are bi-partisan cut across all party and political lines.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

This sad event had zero to do with any political motivation beyond that of abused women the world over. Unless I missed something in my perusing this storyline, the scumbag in question doesn't even fit into the DHS's right-wing militia warning.

Do I renounce and/or condemn the scumbag and his actions? Of course, but I also renounce California keeping Charles Manson around to threaten us some more. I condemn the Federal government for allowing William Ayers to walk around a free man, influencing elections with his violent Marxist/Maoist politics. I also condemn and renounce the release of known, self-admitted, and unrepentant Islamic terrorists from foreign lands into the US general population.

This is going to be The News Cycle of the next couple of months. Every single time a murder is committed in the US, the US media will look deeply for any kind of connection to anything even vaguely right wingish or military. And anybody and everybody with even the vaguest of right-wing leanings will be held accountable for the actions of nutbags thousands of miles away.

[Link: query.nytimes.com...]

[Link: lonestartimes.com...]

NOT
MINE,
R

356 FabioC.  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:52:39am

For those who have some spare time, there's a few interesting essays to read.

Pressing the "RESET" Button

The "Threshold of Outrage"

Philosophy, Revolution, and the Restoration of the Constitution

357 Obsidiandog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 6:07:33am

So we have a deranged wife beater with a history of violence and an interest in guns and militias and it was the election that made him crazy?

358 koedo  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 6:16:56am

So, exactly how many of these incidents, as odious as they are, have there been? I mean, I'm just saying, sometimes an deranged killer is just that, a deranged killer.

It would be more troublesome if he was not deranged and committed this heinous act.

359 Obsidiandog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 6:18:32am

re: #351 Dark_Falcon

Capone did support the Dems at times, but his biggest support was reserved for a Republican named William Hale "Big Bill" Thompson (who served as Mayor of Chicago from 1915 to 1923 and again from 1927 to 1931). Thompson enriched himself with mob graft and his corrupting of GOP organizations greatly contributed to the collapse of the Republican party in Chicago.


So when can we expect the Democrat stranglehold of Chicago for the last 70 years to collapse from all the mob graft and corrupting of Dem organizations?

I expect Capone's palm-greasing went to whomever happened to be in office at the time.

360 Former SSG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 7:20:17am

Charles, I was upset about that report too. Hearing what you have to say has changed my mind on it - it really will hurt the "conservative cause" to rear up and take personally a document taht is meant to help LEOs catch the bad guys (by which I mean real extremists.) And anyone who shoots policemen are the bad guys. There were soem people where I work who were saying, "But Tim McVeigh isn't representative of us!" and getting bent out of shape over the report. However, on the chance that this report save one police officer because someone else read it with a serious eye, it's good enough for me.

As to this particular case, there really isn't enough information yet to tell what set the killer off.

/Praying for the families.

361 chukardog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:08:22am
How is that different from the "insurrection" crap Glenn Beck is spouting on a daily basis?

Charles, what are you talking about? Im sorry but I have never heard Glen Beck advocate insurrection. Ever. In fact, quite the opposite. You may disagree with he guy but lets try and stay a little more objective.

362 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:18:22am

re: #361 chukardog

Charles, what are you talking about? Im sorry but I have never heard Glen Beck advocate insurrection. Ever. In fact, quite the opposite. You may disagree with he guy but lets try and stay a little more objective.

Glenn Beck ranting about revolution, the end of America, and insurrection:

Glenn Beck and Ron Paul ranting away about the New World Order:

363 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:19:39am

It's amazingly easy to find more of this garbage. But go ahead and deny it some more.

364 chukardog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:39:58am

Charles, no where in that first video did Glen Beck "advocate" insurrection. Nowhere. The discussion was a "doomsday" scenario. A little silly, alarmist? yes, but there is no way you can construe Mr Beck advocating armed insurrection.
"THE VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS PROGRAM ARE NOT PREDICTIONS OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN, BUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN. THE PANELISTS HAVE BEEN ASKED TO THINK THE UNTHINKABLE."
Beck has gone out of his way to say he doesn't think insurrection is the way to change things, he's all for the retarded idea of a third party. Sorry but you're way off base.

365 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:45:23am

re: #364 chukardog

Charles, no where in that first video did Glen Beck "advocate" insurrection. Nowhere. The discussion was a "doomsday" scenario. A little silly, alarmist? yes, but there is no way you can construe Mr Beck advocating armed insurrection.

And I didn't say he "advocated" insurrection -- you did, in your denial that he discusses it on a daily basis.

366 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:49:59am

By the way, despite your denials, Beck says very clearly in that video that he believes insurrection is "likely to happen."

367 chukardog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:57:10am

Where has he said he believes this will happen, did you not read the preface? I can tell you have never listened to Glenn Beck. Does he have some far out ideas? sure, is he the right wing nut bar you're making him out to be? not really. His biggest sin is the lie of the NAFTA super high way, one world government BS. I'll concede that, but he doesn't think there will be revolution or armed insurrection.

368 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:58:48am

re: #367 chukardog

Where has he said he believes this will happen, did you not read the preface? I can tell you have never listened to Glenn Beck.

I can tell you didn't even listen to what he says in the video.

369 Land Shark  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 9:58:51am

re: #126 Charles

And that's ANOTHER reason why it's important for conservatives to speak out against this kind of crap instead of bitching and moaning about the DHS report.

Absolutely. Conservatives need to get very vocal about rejecting these nuts. There's already growing anger and resentment at Obama's reckless spending, unwise foreign policy and lack of integrity, both his and that of his appointed officials. But Conservatives and the GOP will not be able to exploit this in the ballot box if they are seen being in league with or at least tolerating these idiots. They must visibly stand against the Stormfronts and other right wing racist kooks or we're done as a political force. Making excuses for these jag-offs is political suicide.

I believe Obama is in the process of screwing things up so badly people will vote him and the Dems out of office. But if Conservatives don't make a supreme effort to marginalize the kooks on the right, we and the nation are toast.

370 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 10:17:28am

re: #369 Land Shark

Absolutely. Conservatives need to get very vocal about rejecting these nuts.

I agree, but that's not even close to happening. Instead, conservatives are getting very vocal about rejecting people who speak out against the nuts.

371 chukardog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 10:23:06am

I also noticed that the preceding segment in that video where Glenn himself says these are are "what if" scenarios and not likely, is left off. Beck's point that he DOES talk bout on a daily basis is that the government is doing the exact opposite of what needs to happen to avoid a financial crisis. Beck predicted on his radio show over 2 years ago that the Dow would drop to 7000 and we were headed for financial trouble. I never thought I would be a Glenn Beck apologist but your characterizations of him are simply inaccurate. I carry no water for the guy, I listen to all the radio talk show guys, I'm a big enough boy to make up my own mind and I know enough about the world to know BS when I hear it. Glenn Beck is not the right wing, nutbar boogey man you are making him out to be. As you you like to say BOOGA BOOGA!

372 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 10:26:24am

re: #371 chukardog

Glenn Beck is a complete far right kook. He promotes Ron Paul. He promotes books by John Birchers. He rants about insurrection and revolution and the end times. He pulls stunts like having a giant backdrop of Nazi propaganda films interspersed with Obama speeches.

You wouldn't know a kook if it bit you on the butt, apparently.

373 Land Shark  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 10:38:12am

re: #370 Charles

I agree, but that's not even close to happening. Instead, conservatives are getting very vocal about rejecting people who speak out against the nuts.

I wish I could disagree with you but I can't because you're right. Too many are blaming the messenger instead of doing their homework.

374 jvic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 11:00:34am

re: #369 Land Shark

Absolutely. Conservatives need to get very vocal about rejecting these nuts.

re: #370 Charles

I agree, but that's not even close to happening. Instead, conservatives are getting very vocal about rejecting people who speak out against the nuts.

1. The country doesn't need a conservative version of leftist anti-anti-Communism.

2. The right-wing nut politicians are attracting people who have real concerns. Whether or not the concerns are mistaken, they are real to the people who experience them. Such people will listen to the nuts if they see nowhere else to turn. If enough people see no alternative...

Giving desperate people a credible place to turn is an essential part of annulling the toxic extremists. The Rove coalition of theocrats and influence peddlers has become irrelevant or unsustainable.

375 Hawaii69  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 11:04:42am

re: #372 Charles

Glenn Beck is a complete far right kook. He promotes Ron Paul. He promotes books by John Birchers. He rants about insurrection and revolution and the end times. He pulls stunts like having a giant backdrop of Nazi propaganda films interspersed with Obama speeches.

You wouldn't know a kook if it bit you on the butt, apparently.


I doubt that Glenn Beck believes half of what he says.

A recent Op-Ed article called him "A Savvy Fraud".

He's a vulture who thinks it's all a big joke to be exploited for attention and $$$. As far as I'm
concerned, this makes him even more vile than
if he were sincere about his rantings.

376 Hawaii69  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 11:11:26am

re: #371 chukardog

Glenn Beck is not the right wing, nutbar boogey man you are making him out to be.

I think you're right. He's just an opportunist. A carpetbagger.

That's even less respectable than Right Wing Nutbar

377 ExCamelJockey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 11:17:23am

A disturbed, wife-beating, nutjob, reservist randomly kills police officers. All local law enforcement agencies need to be notified about this? We need to now watch out for "right wing extremist terrorists" because of this? Are you serious? You support this?

The DHS report as well as the term "right wing terrorist" is political bunk. There are nutjobs on both sides of the political aisle and always will be. Why was there never a "left wing extremist terrorist" warning about activist tree-huggers, Code Pinkers, corrupt union bosses, or PETA nutjobs?

FYI, the only US citizen on the FBI's Most Wanted Terrorist list is an activist for a left wing cause. I won't hold my breath waiting for a "left wing extremist" report.

378 Hawaii69  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 11:28:59am

re: #377 ExCamelJockey

Why was there never a "left wing extremist terrorist" warning about activist tree-huggers, Code Pinkers, corrupt union bosses, or PETA nutjobs?

I won't hold my breath waiting for a "left wing extremist" report.

Good thing. You'd have been holding your breath unnecessarily for the past 3 months.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

379 Charles  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:26pm

re: #242 JenBee

As we all know, craziness lurks in every segment of society, and to point to this and allude that it somehow validates Napolitano's singling out of right wing extremists is indeed quite lame.

Ok, so here are some more examples for you to dismiss:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]


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