Utah Governor Huntsman to GOP: ‘You Can’t Just Say No’

Politics • Views: 7,600

Utah’s Republican Governor Jon Huntsman is trying to talk the GOP down from the ledge.

With the party reeling from Sen. Arlen Specter’s defection, a prominent moderate Republican governor is warning that GOP leaders in Washington have failed to offer a positive alternative to President Obama’s initiatives.

“You can’t just say no. You can’t just obstruct or obfuscate,” Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said in an interview with ABC News. “Instead of just kind of grousing and complaining, it would do us all a whole lot of good if we actually started engaging directly in finding compromises and common ground and shared solutions.” …

“When you are devoid of the ideas, or the content that would allow you to articulate or paint a better future, you have no choice other than to fall back on ‘no, we are not going support it, it cannot be done,’” Huntsman said.

Amen. But of course, Huntsman has a small problem; he’s not going to be acceptable to the social conservatives.

In November, Huntsman won re-election with 78 percent of the vote in Utah, one of the most solidly Republican states in the country and one of the most conservative, but he is an unconventional Republican, staking out moderate positions on environmental issues like climate change and favoring gay rights.

And there’s also this:

Last week, Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. told reporters he believes intelligent design should not be taught in science classes and that the time to talk about other concepts comes largely at home or in religious settings.

Stone the unfaithful monkey!

UPDATE at 4/29/09 1:01:11 pm:

And right on cue: Michigan GOP official cancels Huntsman event in protest.

Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr.’s appearance at a Michigan county Republican Party event was scrapped this week after the county chairwoman said that hosting the moderate Utah governor would mean abandoning the party’s conservative principles.

Kent County Republican Party Chairwoman Joanne Voorhees abruptly canceled the party fundraiser scheduled for Saturday.

“The voters want and expect us to stand on principle and return to our roots. Unfortunately, by holding an event with Governor Huntsman, we would be doing the exact opposite,” Voorhees wrote in an e-mail quoted in The Grand Rapids Press .

Voorhees did not specify which issues she felt were contrary to the party’s principles and did not return messages left at the party headquarters and on her cell phone.

The group Campaign for Michigan Families praised the cancellation, attributing it to Huntsman’s support of civil unions, and urged the Oakland and Kalamazoo county parties, where Huntsman is also scheduled to speak this weekend, to do the same.

“Presumably he is testing the waters [for a presidential run] and we hope he realizes now the waters in Michigan will be hazardous to someone who endorses the homosexual activist political agenda,” said campaign director Gary Glenn.

Jump to bottom

1191 comments
1 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:14:18pm

He's will have trouble relating to the Republican base.

2 acwgusa  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:14:27pm

Stone the unfaithful monkey? What did the monkey do to deserve that? Spank the monkey at most, but don't stone him.

3 iLikeCandy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:14:51pm

Belief in climate change is about as moderate as belief in creationism.

4 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:15:06pm

I like him...he seems to have a practical streak, therefore unelectable

5 capitalist piglet  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:15:36pm
Stone the unfaithful monkey!

Okay, that was funny! My second favorite, just below "the lidless eye".

6 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:16:01pm

re: #3 iLikeCandy

Belief in climate change is about as moderate as belief in creationism.

right...the climate DOES NOT CHANGE....got it

7 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:16:35pm

re: #4 albusteve

I like him...he seems to have a practical streak, therefore unelectable

Not by me, but...well, the fondness for ideology over practicality crosses all political divides.

8 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:18:11pm

re: #6 albusteve

right...the climate DOES NOT CHANGE....got it

How about we insert the phrase "man caused"? At the very least, human beings aren't going to change the climate very much. Not so long as there's a sun out there.

9 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:18:55pm

IMHO, AGW has about as much scientific validity as ID.
Both are religious issues, not science.

10 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:20:19pm

re: #8 Dianna

How about we insert the phrase "man caused"? At the very least, human beings aren't going to change the climate very much. Not so long as there's a sun out there.

that would make a difference....and it seems to be every person for themselves now...the GOP is so convoluted I don't think it can identify it's base....

who are you?
who who
who who

11 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:20:24pm

no

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:20:28pm

re: #9 Son of the Black Dog

IMHO, AGW has about as much scientific validity as ID.
Both are religious issues, not science.

That's simply not true.

13 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:20:30pm

Boil that dust speck!

14 pegcity  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:20:48pm

what kind of gay rights?

civil unions, or that they shouldn't be stoned to death?

15 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:20:50pm

So we should just steal a page from O's playbook and have the GOP spew endless empty platitudes. Yeah, that's get the people to vote for (R)s again.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

16 Eowyn2  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:21:34pm

time to get some work done in case I happen to be snowed in tomorrow. heh heh

17 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:21:50pm

re: #14 pegcity

what kind of gay rights?

civil unions, or that they shouldn't be stoned to death?

picky picky

18 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:22:23pm
19 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:22:23pm

re: #9 Son of the Black Dog

IMHO, AGW has about as much scientific validity as ID.
Both are religious issues, not science.

That concept is going to cause the right more and more grief as more moderate Republicans are taking another look at the science, not tainted by their political bias.

20 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:22:30pm

Anyone remember when the saying used to be [paraphrased], "everyone talks about the weather but can't do anything about it"?

21 Liberal Classic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:22:44pm

re: #9 Son of the Black Dog

IMHO, AGW has about as much scientific validity as ID.
Both are religious issues, not science.

I disagree. Human activity can change the atmosphere. Just as our release of chlorofluorocarbons affected the ozone layer, our release of carbon dioxide can affect the amount of energy absorbed by the atmosphere at infrared wavelengths.

22 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:22:53pm

re: #12 Charles

That's simply not true.

There is still a chance that further study will provide supporting evidence for AGW.

23 elBarto  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:23:00pm

what is agw?

24 Kragar  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:23:15pm

First Romney, now Huntsman, what the hell are the Republicans coming to?

/////

25 Rexatosis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:23:28pm

Gov. Huntsman is correct. The GOP needs to lay out a concise, articulate plan of governance. This is exactly what Rep. Gingrich and the House GOP did with "The Contract With America." They presented the plan, ran on it, and won the 1994 Congressional Mid-term elections. This is what Gov. Reagan did in 1980 and begat the Reagan Revolution. This is how you win elections. Give the voter a good solid product, explain why the product is what the voter should buy, and explain why the GOP product is better for the voter than the Democrat version.

26 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:23:38pm

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

It's not right to simply deny all of that evidence and say that a huge number of scientists are either lying or flat-out wrong, or that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are all mistaken.

27 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:23:42pm

re: #18 buzzsawmonkey

Worrying about whether or not one "is acceptable" to this constituency or that is just as stupid as listening to what polls say you should do. Both are examples, not of leadership, but of followership; people who do either are running out in front of the parade and pretending to lead it.

If Governor Huntsman could win 78% of the vote in a Republican state, he doubtless had to deal with any number of "social conservatives." I say, good on him. Let him keep doing what he's doing, let him be who he is. He seems perfectly capable of dealing with people who, for whatever reason, have an interest in finding him "unacceptable."

well said...I can't say that stuff with one carry on sentence

28 Quilly Mammoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:08pm

I think the lesson for this is that not all social conservatives support teaching religion in science class and that many who personally oppose the Gay Lifestyle, and other lifestyle choices, don't want it regulated by the Government.

29 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:11pm

re: #12 Charles

That's simply not true.

I guess we need to disagree on man-caused global warming.
Emphasis on man-caused.

30 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:15pm

re: #20 FurryOldGuyJeans

Anyone remember when the saying used to be [paraphrased], "everyone talks about the weather but can't do anything about it"?

I think it was usually "everyone talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it." See, people should be careful what they wish for.

31 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:19pm

re: #23 elBarto

what is agw?

Anthropomorphic Global Warming....humans are warming the planet.

32 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:34pm

I'd like to trade him for Corzine, Utah lizards. Please?

33 Thom  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:44pm
“You can’t just say no. You can’t just obstruct or obfuscate,” Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said in an interview with ABC News. “Instead of just kind of grousing and complaining, it would do us all a whole lot of good if we actually started engaging directly in finding compromises and common ground and shared solutions.”

While Gov. HUntsman is right on the mark for the most part, this quote is simply fatuous.

Common ground? Compromise? With Reid and Pelosi commanding unmoveable majorities?

Not possible.

34 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:48pm

re: #26 Charles

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

It's not right to simply deny all of that evidence and say that a huge number of scientists are either lying or flat-out wrong, or that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are all mistaken.

DUCK, incoming !

35 SummerSong  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:24:54pm

Janet Napolitano does not seem ready for prime time.

She needs to take teleprompter lessons from the O. She looks down at her papers, then her eyes dart up to the ceiling. Unless the media is clinging to the ceiling, it just looks weird.

36 elBarto  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:25:28pm

O I don't believe it is all our fault. I blame sunspots.

37 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:25:28pm

re: #28 Quilly Mammoth

I think the lesson for this is that not all social conservatives support teaching religion in science class and that many who personally oppose the Gay Lifestyle, and other lifestyle choices, don't want it regulated by the Government.

Not "all," that's true -- just "most." By speaking out against teaching "intelligent design" creationism, Huntsman is a very rare animal in the GOP.

38 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:25:32pm

re: #2 acwgusa

Stone the unfaithful monkey? What did the monkey do to deserve that? Spank the monkey at most, but don't stone him.

No, mon. He mean get the monkey stoned. Have some ganja, mon.
/Rastafarian mode off.

39 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:26:01pm

re: #23 elBarto

what is agw?

Anthropogenic Global Warming. It is the amount of Global Warming that can be attributed to the actions of humanity and not naturally occurring phenomena.

40 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:26:03pm

re: #31 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #23 elBarto

what is agw?

Anthropomorphic Global Warming....humans are warming the planet.

Really? I thought AGW stood for Al Gore Whining...

41 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:26:26pm

re: #37 Charles

Not "all," that's true -- just "most." By speaking out against teaching "intelligent design" creationism, Huntsman is a very rare animal in the GOP.

Probably won't last very long as he will likely be shown the door by the far right crazies.

42 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:26:28pm

If a moderate can get 78% of the vote in UTAH, I strenuously doubt he (or any Republican with similar positions) is too moderate for the GOP at large. He sounds like a person to watch.

43 pegcity  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:26:38pm

re: #35 SummerSong

Were talking them BO here, i wouldn't trust his team with running a Dairy Queen let alone America.

44 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:26:44pm

Being labelled the "party of no" is a simplistic, effective mantra for the left but I agree it's not a solution to much of anything. But neither is this.....

it would do us all a whole lot of good if we actually started engaging directly in finding compromises and common ground and shared solutions.” ...

Republicans DO need to craft a plan that they can rally around. Compromising our way to socialism, however, is not a plan.

45 jcbunga  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:27:14pm

...uh...he said 'obfuscate'...heh heh..heh...heh heh.....heh

46 elBarto  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:27:29pm

37 Charles, I dont think his opinion is rare in the GOP it is rare that he is that vocal about it. The quacks are so loud they are drowning out everyone else.

47 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:27:49pm

re: #41 FurryOldGuyJeans

Probably won't last very long as he will likely be shown the door by the far right crazies.

Unfortunately, I think you're right about that. With the current GOP climate he has no chance of advancing politically.

48 Baier  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:28:00pm

re: #44 Russkilitlover

Being labelled the "party of no" is a simplistic, effective mantra for the left but I agree it's not a solution to much of anything. But neither is this.....

Republicans DO need to craft a plan that they can rally around. Compromising our way to socialism, however, is not a plan.

I don't think we need a compromising leader. We need a uncompromising leader that we compromise on.

49 Raiderdan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:28:40pm

Looks like another GOPer has bought the MSM and Obama's "framing" that the Republicans are the part of "NO."

First you have to define yourself as what you do and DON'T support. So far the GOP might seem to be digging its its heels, but its a hellava lot better than being Obama-lite.

Also, the MSM will always rush to find and promote Republican fratricide by pimping any GOPer who wants air time and is willing to criticize their party for being "too far right." (think Chuck Hagel, Meghan McCain, John McCain, etc.)

When the Democrats lost in 2002 and 2004, you didn't hear the MSM saying the Dems were "too far to the left."

Nope.

Don't fall for it, Charles.

This game by the MSM is as old as the day is long.

50 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:28:49pm

re: #29 Son of the Black Dog

I guess we need to disagree on man-caused global warming.
Emphasis on man-caused.

I've seen plenty of intelligent, well-presented, honest-appearing evidence that human activity is causing climate change via CO2 production. That's a result of spending so much time in American universities. The question of why we were having lectures about global warming in medical school is probably a topic for another discussion.

I've also seen some sound-appearing arguments to the contrary, which, of course, I had to seek out for myself, as they weren't presented to me in medical school. One of the things on my list of things to do is to sit down at some point and critically review all of the literature for myself.

When I get a year or two free, I swear I'm gonna do it.

51 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:28:51pm

re: #36 elBarto

The alternative theory is that a lack of sunspots is causing global warming. The sun is currently very "quiet" in terms of sunspot activity.

52 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:28:56pm

re: #40 Kenneth

re: #23 elBarto

Really? I thought AGW stood for Al Gore Whining...

Gore was a double edged sword. He helped bring the issue to light, but his over hyping and political baggage diluted the message of a potential problem.

53 elBarto  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:29:50pm

re: #51 Kenneth

That is why the warming has stopped or leveled out.

54 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:29:51pm

Pull my finger if you support Anthropomorphic Global Warming!

55 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:30:28pm

re: #54 DaddyG

Pull my finger if you support Anthropomorphic Global Warming!

That's wrong on so many levels... I love it!

56 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:30:34pm

re: #47 Charles

Unfortunately, I think you're right about that. With the current GOP climate he has no chance of advancing politically.

The GOP seems to be intent on doing a wide-sweeping purge of the ideological impure as defined by a few far-right radicals. Reagan would unlikely survive if he were around now.

57 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:30:46pm

re: #26 Charles

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

It's not right to simply deny all of that evidence and say that a huge number of scientists are either lying or flat-out wrong, or that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are all mistaken.

Of course, there's also the fact that average global temperatures have remained flat for at least a decade, while measured CO2 increased; or that the two trends have a poor correlation historically, or even over the last century.

58 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:30:48pm

re: #42 doppelganglander

If a moderate can get 78% of the vote in UTAH, I strenuously doubt he (or any Republican with similar positions) is too moderate for the GOP at large. He sounds like a person to watch.

I read about him a few months back and was impressed, by definition, that means he won't get anywhere with the far right.

59 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #43 pegcity

Were talking them BO here, i wouldn't trust his team with running a Dairy Queen let alone America.

"If you do not order fries with that, you are a RACIST!"

60 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:30:53pm

re: #52 avanti

That is the core of the issue. There is some scientific evidence, but the science is far from settled, as Al Gore insists. The subject has been taken over by political activists with little or now scientific training.

61 pegcity  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:31:16pm

the problem is the 2 party system is outdated, made sense 100 years ago, now not so much.

how can 2 parties possibly appeal to everyone?

Now is the time for a third party alternative, because this one party being for something while the other is forced to be against the position is insane.

62 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:31:29pm

re: #47 Charles

Unfortunately, I think you're right about that. With the current GOP climate he has no chance of advancing politically.

A-ha! You're one of these "GOP climate change" loons!

/

63 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:31:31pm

OT, but
Nazareth Muslim Cleric Prepares Insult for Pope

Muslims led by a radical imam in the town where Christianity's founder was raised are not pleased at the prospect of a visit from the head of his church, and have prepared a special insult with which to greet the Pope.

Radical Imam Nazem Abu Salim inspired his followers to string up a banner across the main square of Nazareth with a blatant warning for Pope Benedict XVI: "Those who harm G-d and His Messenger – G-d has cursed them in this world and in the hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating punishment."

The words, lifted from the Koran, are translated into English in a small sign next to the banner, which is visible from the Church of the Annunciation, one of the sites the pontiff will visit on May 18.


Think this will change the Pope's mind about supporting a Palestinian state?
Neither do I.

64 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:31:36pm

Jump, you obnoxious party.

65 Bloodnok  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:31:50pm

re: #44 Russkilitlover

Being labelled the "party of no" is a simplistic, effective mantra for the left but I agree it's not a solution to much of anything. But neither is this.....


Republicans DO need to craft a plan that they can rally around. Compromising our way to socialism, however, is not a plan.

I don't think "compromising" means switching sides on votes. "Compromising" to me means fielding Republican candidates of different stripes. Some less socially conservative, while still maintaining the core beliefs of fiscal conservatism, national security and personal responsibility. Some, perhaps more so.

66 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:31:55pm

re: #41 FurryOldGuyJeans

Probably won't last very long as he will likely be shown the door by the far right crazies.


He carries the Romney baggage of being a Mormon. I sincerely hope that isn't as much of an issue in the next election cycle- but given what my kids are told about their own beliefs by evangelical "friends" at school that is probably very optimistic.

67 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:32:15pm

re: #28 Quilly Mammoth

I think the lesson for this is that not all social conservatives support teaching religion in science class and that many who personally oppose the Gay Lifestyle, and other lifestyle choices, don't want it regulated by the Government.

Certainly, people should be able to do what they please, provided everyone's over 18, it's consensual, and no crimes are committed in the process.

And that does not mean that some idjit can agree to be killed. That's a crime.

68 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:32:33pm

re: #52 avanti

Gore was a double edged sword. He helped bring the issue to light, but his over hyping and political baggage diluted the message of a potential problem.

He is also closely associated with a company that stands to make a billion dollars from the issue. Ever hear of Halliburton? Or does having a monetary interest only apply to Republicans?

69 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:32:51pm

re: #51 Kenneth

The alternative theory is that a lack of sunspots is causing global warming. The sun is currently very "quiet" in terms of sunspot activity.

Of course sunspot observations are tricky. Most of the experts in that field go blind within a few weeks of their careers. //

70 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:32:53pm
“You can’t just say no. You can’t just obstruct or obfuscate,” Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said in an interview with ABC News.


I cain't...say...no.

71 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:33:07pm

re: #35 SummerSong

Janet Napolitano does not seem ready for prime time.

She needs to take teleprompter lessons from the O. She looks down at her papers, then her eyes dart up to the ceiling. Unless the media is clinging to the ceiling, it just looks weird.

* * * *
Shhhhh. Napolitano said said everything they're doing is based on science.
Stop being superficial and negative.

72 looking closely  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:33:16pm

With due respect, I don't think it was the "social conservatives" that drove out Specter.

He's always been a Republican in name-only, he's sided with Democrats on numerous NON-social issues (the Obama porkfest being the most recent and egregious example) and he left the party out of political expediency.

As to Huntsman, the Republicans HAVE had alternatives to the Spendulus, and other Democrat legislative disasters, but they're having a pretty hard time getting their message out, utterly apart from gay marriage and/or creationism.

73 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:33:19pm

I think it's almost impossible for an intelligent lay person to develop an informed opinion about AGW. Everything I see is so politicized, and usually accompanied by shrillness and hysteria.

There are really 3 separate issues: 1) Is it getting warmer? 2) If so, is man causing it? and 3) If 1 and 2 are true, what, if anything, should we do about it?

I simply don't trust anyone on either side of the issue.

74 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:33:20pm

re: #28 Quilly Mammoth

and that many who personally oppose the Gay Lifestyle

How about those of us who don't believe that there's a single, monolithic "Gay Lifestyle"?

75 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:33:45pm

re: #67 Dianna

Certainly, people should be able to do what they please, provided everyone's over 18, it's consensual, and no crimes are committed in the process.

And it doesn't frighten the horses.

76 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:33:52pm

History of Co2 on this planet. Check out the chart.

77 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:33:57pm

re: #32 VioletTiger

I'd like to trade him for Corzine, Utah lizards. Please?


There are quite a few SoCons in UT that would gladly part with him. They bring up is support for civil unions, for example, which he has taken a lot of heat over. Ironically, he supported McCain and not Romney, which also upset alot of Utahns. He certainly got some mileage from the Huntsman name, but if he can be a strong voice for the GOP. I support him.

78 midwestgak  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:34:12pm

re: #41 FurryOldGuyJeans

Probably won't last very long as he will likely be shown the door by the far right crazies.

Afrocity was looking for you in an up thread. You captured her heart.

79 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:34:16pm

re: #48 Baier

I don't think we need a compromising leader. We need a uncompromising leader that we compromise on.

Okay. I will accept that compromise. ;)

80 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:34:30pm
81 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:34:36pm

IMHO the Modern Whigs are better.
Modern Whig Party.

82 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:35:02pm

BBIAW

83 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:35:16pm

re: #34 avanti

DUCK, incoming !

Charles I respect. You, I don't. So I'm down-dinging you.

84 Neutral President  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:35:33pm

Looks like down-ding snipers are about on the We got Mail thread.

85 Baier  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:35:38pm

re: #79 Russkilitlover

Okay. I will accept that compromise. ;)

And one that cuts my taxers and gives me bailout money.

86 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:36:05pm

re: #61 pegcity

I'd love it if there were a third party, maybe called "The Not-Crazy Party." But I think the natural evolution of the two current parties has proven that such a party would never fly for long.

To restate a theory I've proposed before, in a simpler form, political parties succeed to the extent that they can raise money. And they raise money not by appealing to people's sensible, rational, intelligent sides, but rather by whipping people into a partisan frenzy about something, by inflaming their emotions with a lot of overblown propaganda.

87 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:36:06pm

re: #60 Kenneth

That is the core of the issue. There is some scientific evidence, but the science is far from settled, as Al Gore insists. The subject has been taken over by political activists with little or now scientific training.

They actually are opposed to science since the free-wheeling "always questioning" nature of scientific research would blunt their political agenda.

88 SummerSong  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:36:21pm

re: #71 alegrias

* * * *
Shhhhh. Napolitano said said everything they're doing is based on science.
Stop being superficial and negative.

Oh, well, if she "said said" it....I guess I'll reconsider ;)

89 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #9 Son of the Black Dog

IMHO, AGW has about as much scientific validity as ID.
Both are religious issues, not science.

re: #60 Kenneth

That is the core of the issue. There is some scientific evidence, but the science is far from settled, as Al Gore insists. The subject has been taken over by political activists with little or now scientific training.

One issue is religious.
The other, if one accepts AGW and believes it's catasprohic and we can "fix" it, is political.

90 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:36:38pm

re: #75 Occasional Reader

And it doesn't frighten the horses.

Absolutely!

91 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:36:39pm

re: #26 Charles

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

It's not right to simply deny all of that evidence and say that a huge number of scientists are either lying or flat-out wrong, or that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are all mistaken.

Correct.
Even if it's only the straw that breaks the camel's back...it still makes for a crippled camel.

92 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:36:48pm

re: #52 avanti

Gore was a double edged sword. He helped bring the issue to light, but his over hyping and political baggage diluted the message of a potential problem.

Gore was a toddler playing with a loaded gun. Diluting the message is too weak to describe what he has done. It is partly due to him, mostly perhaps, and with help from a scientifically illiterate media, that the GW debate is now widely characterized as taking place between Kool-Aid drinkers and Deniers.

93 jcbunga  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:37:25pm

Can anyone say that ANY politicians in office today are worthy?

The Dems are so far left that FDR, JFK and LBJ wouldn't be allowed at the convention today. Do they even get quoted anymore?

The Republicans have fled from Reaganism and are bewildered why they've lost the power they had.

Even those truly devoted to serving the people, and they are few in number, have to admit that whatever they've tried to maintain a representative government has failed.

There's not a damn one of them on either side who is worthy of the job, the people or the sacrifices made by the military. They ALL need to go.

The comedic feature of Spector is that any Republican would be shocked. He saw his poll numbers and fled. To this crowd that's not a failing, it's a strategy.

Throw them all out and start over.

94 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:37:44pm

re: #52 avanti

Gore was a double edged sword. He helped bring the issue to light, but his over hyping and political baggage diluted the message of a potential problem.

* * * *
Gore's profitting off climate change--see, he's also a capitalist pig.
He's bipartisan alright, used to having it both ways.

Gore keeps his big ass carbon footprint--8 years flying Air Force Two around!--while lecturing YOU about your tiny one.

95 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:37:52pm
96 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:37:57pm

re: #80 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Encyclopedia Britannica's article on Climatic Change says that for 95 % of the Earth's climate history the poles were free of ice.

97 rawmuse  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:37:57pm

I am waiting for the Rampage of Moderates to begin.

98 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:38:03pm

re: #85 Baier

And one that cuts my taxers and gives me bailout money.

I don't want bailout money.

Though I was rather non-plussed by the realization that the government could divide the bail-out by the population and send us each a check, and it would probably do no more harm.

99 Diamond Bullet  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:38:10pm

I don't think Republicans have just been saying "no" - but that that is a common and almost mandatory reaction given what the alternatives are. Several were recently on record complaining what a sham Obama's vaunted "bi-partisanship" was and that they are routinely faced with bills that don't include any non-liberal input. Obama talks a big game about listening to them, and then rejects all their suggestions. When later faced with the bill, what choice do they have but to say no? I definitely agree that there should be more active, affirmative proposals on the right (including concrete data and figures) to counterweight Obama's narrative, but in light of the huge deficit bloat and zany social programs The One is inflicting on us I'm unconvinced "no" is a bad place to be as a general matter. A little no might be the best prescription for spending plans that perversely try to compensate for a bubble created by people spending more than they could afford by saddling the country with spending programs it can't afford.

100 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:38:24pm

re: #26 Charles

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

Yeah, it's freaking cold outside. I'm wearing a jacket in my office on April 29.

101 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:38:28pm

I like Huntsman so far. I hope he considers going for the nomination in 2012.

102 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:38:36pm

re: #68 LGoPs

He is also closely associated with a company that stands to make a billion dollars from the issue. Ever hear of Halliburton? Or does having a monetary interest only apply to Republicans?

And someone should occasionally point out that the Gore family fortune was made in coal and oil. See: Albert Gore, Sr. and Island Creek Coal Company and Occidental Petroleum.

103 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:38:36pm

re: #66 DaddyG

He carries the Romney baggage of being a Mormon. I sincerely hope that isn't as much of an issue in the next election cycle- but given what my kids are told about their own beliefs by evangelical "friends" at school that is probably very optimistic.

The only reason why being a Mormon is "bad" since it is a cult according to so many on the far right. They only want THEIR religious dogma to be supreme.

104 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:38:38pm

re: #76 MacGregor

History of Co2 on this planet. Check out the chart.

And then there's this.

I don't know which is right. As I said, I'm gonna have to take a year or two and try to form an informed opinion on this.

105 looking closely  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:39:00pm

re: #26 Charles

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

It's not right to simply deny all of that evidence and say that a huge number of scientists are either lying or flat-out wrong, or that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are all mistaken.

On the last thing, in general, its very easy to say that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are wrong, because empirically, there are thousands of them that come to opposite conclusions about all sorts of things.

Again, emprically, there HAVE TO be thousands of scientists who are wrong about all sorts of things. That's what science is all about.

In terms of the validity of AGW, I think its probably fair to say that human-induced CO2 emissions have *some* effect on climate, but its still an open question of how much, and I think there is good reason to believe that the effects are minimal to negligible. More important, is the risk/benefit calculation of trying to curtail CO2 emissions vs. damage to the global economy.

Taking the alarmist arguments to their extreme, is it worth it to put mankind back in the stone age?

106 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:39:22pm

re: #95 tackle

Parts of the GOP are already protesting.
Michigan county GOP cancels appearance by Huntsman, apparently for his support for civil unions

great...they won't even listen to him...that seems a little extreme

107 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:39:48pm

re: #102 Son of the Black Dog

And someone should occasionally point out that the Gore family fortune was made in coal and oil. See: Albert Gore, Sr. and Island Creek Coal Company and Occidental Petroleum.

And the internet!

108 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:39:57pm

re: #101 Sharmuta

I like Huntsman so far. I hope he considers going for the nomination in 2012.

He does have a cool name going for him.

Night of the Huntsman

The Heart is a Lonely Huntsman

etc.

109 cronus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:39:58pm

Up until he came out for civil unions a couple months ago, Huntsman was viewed as a pretty conventional social conservative. He is staunchly pro-life and just signed a couple bills on abortion in March. I'm not sure how his social conservative support will play out, but he will not have the kind of chronic inability to connect that Rudy had or to a lesser extent Romney suffered from.

110 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:40:03pm

Do not fall in love with the letter R.

111 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:40:14pm

re: #83 Dianna

Charles I respect. You, I don't. So I'm down-dinging you.

Hey, have a party, dinging me down is safe, fun and popular. :)

112 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:40:15pm

Charles, some clown is going through the early posts of the We Got Mail thread and down dinging like mad.

Anybody ever hear of Feelitmon@adelphia.net?

Me neither.

113 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:40:31pm

re: #56 FurryOldGuyJeans

The GOP seems to be intent on doing a wide-sweeping purge of the ideological impure as defined by a few far-right radicals. Reagan would unlikely survive if he were around now.

* * *
What is your evidence for this statement of alleged GOP purges? Mightly sloppy reporting.

No one from the GOP is knocking on my door to purge me in my 99% democrat apparatchik controlled city.

114 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:40:35pm

re: #61 pegcity

the problem is the 2 party system is outdated, made sense 100 years ago, now not so much.

how can 2 parties possibly appeal to everyone?

Now is the time for a third party alternative, because this one party being for something while the other is forced to be against the position is insane.

If you read the Constitution and the writings of the Founding Fathers most hated the idea of political parties as being too restrictive to the functioning of the Republic.

115 Kragar  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:40:49pm

re: #69 DaddyG

Of course sunspot observations are tricky. Most of the experts in that field go blind within a few weeks of their careers. //

I think I see on...AAAAGHHHH MY EYES! I'M FUCKING BLIND AAAAAAGH!

/fun fact, the same words were uttered by the peeping tom who accidently caught sight the Helen Thomas/Barbara Walters tryst

116 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:41:02pm

re: #95 tackle

Parts of the GOP are already protesting.
Michigan county GOP cancels appearance by Huntsman, apparently for his support for civil unions

Great. That's really constructive.

Okay, I'm with Ojoe. The GOP can go take a flying leap.

117 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:42:14pm

78 percent? We need more of these guys, not fewer.

118 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #116 Last Mohican

Thank you.

119 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:43:00pm

re: #113 alegrias

* * *
What is your evidence for this statement of alleged GOP purges? Mightly sloppy reporting.

No one from the GOP is knocking on my door to purge me in my 99% democrat apparatchik controlled city.

My evidence is my two lying eyes and ears.

120 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:43:18pm

re: #112 Kenneth

Oops, you posted an email address.

Don't we have a user called "feelitmon"?

121 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:43:41pm

re: #111 avanti

Hey, have a party, dinging me down is safe, fun and popular. :)

Billy Mays here!
But wait there is more..As a bonus you can down ding today for only S&H..
And if you are the first 100 posts we'll double the offer..

122 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:43:47pm

I'm in favor of Civil Unions.

What I'm opposed to are the Downright Rude Unions.

123 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:43:51pm

re: #104 Last Mohican

Here's more from the source of the article. It looks like Co2 follows temperature on that chart.

124 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:44:08pm

re: #105 looking closely

On the last thing, in general, its very easy to say that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are wrong, because empirically, there are thousands of them that come to opposite conclusions about all sorts of things.

Again, emprically, there HAVE TO be thousands of scientists who are wrong about all sorts of things. That's what science is all about.

It's not just peer review, although that is a very effective way of screening for mistakes, incorrect assumptions, or other problems in scientific studies. When an important study is published and peer reviewed, other scientists will then undertake their own studies, trying to duplicate the results, often using different methodologies and approaches.

The results of studies on CO2 and climate change have been repeated by many different researchers in many different places. I've been reading a lot on this subject recently, and I can no longer simply deny there's anything to it -- as far too many Republicans are doing.

There's still a debate, yes, but I'm seeing way too much blanket denial and way too little respect for the scientific method on the right.

125 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:44:18pm

re: #93 jcbunga

Can anyone say that ANY politicians in office today are worthy?

The Dems are so far left that FDR, JFK and LBJ wouldn't be allowed at the convention today. Do they even get quoted anymore?

The Republicans have fled from Reaganism and are bewildered why they've lost the power they had.

Even those truly devoted to serving the people, and they are few in number, have to admit that whatever they've tried to maintain a representative government has failed.

There's not a damn one of them on either side who is worthy of the job, the people or the sacrifices made by the military. They ALL need to go.

The comedic feature of Spector is that any Republican would be shocked. He saw his poll numbers and fled. To this crowd that's not a failing, it's a strategy.

Throw them all out and start over.

* * * *
Extremist. You are factually incorrect.

There are more than one on each side trying hard to do the right thing.

Your extreme all-or-nothing thinking is not helpful.

126 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:44:30pm

re: #72 looking closely

You've hit on something, which is that what can separate many of those GOPers from their Democrat counterparts other than the supposed social conservativism, because on the fiscal side, many of the GOPers have abandoned fiscal conservatism (aka fiscal responsibility) in search of finding votes - only to discover that Democrats can and will outspend on nearly every front.

Instapundit highlighted a bunch of this today as well.

127 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:44:36pm

re: #68 LGoPs

He is also closely associated with a company that stands to make a billion dollars from the issue. Ever hear of Halliburton? Or does having a monetary interest only apply to Republicans?

Even if I accepted that, you'd be hard pressed to explain all the most respected science groups support of AGW around the world. Take Gore off the table, and just follow the science.

128 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:44:43pm

re: #110 Ojoe

Do not fall in love with the letter R.

I find the letter I to be more cuddliable. ;)

129 pegcity  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:45:02pm

problem with giving civil unions is that it will lead to the call for gay marriage, so in my mind civil unions are just a trojan horse to further club conservatives.

In canada we gave them marriage, and you know what turns out gays don't want to get married, but it sure shut them up.

We called their bluff.

130 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:45:19pm

re: #95 tackle

Parts of the GOP are already protesting.
Michigan county GOP cancels appearance by Huntsman, apparently for his support for civil unions

Oh, brother. Have fun in wilderness, folks.

131 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:45:32pm

re: #58 avanti

I read about him a few months back and was impressed, by definition, that means he won't get anywhere with the far right.

I am not convinced that's true. The far right crazies are very noisy, and a lot of politicians are terrified of them. In some areas, particularly in the South, they are a sizable portion of the party. Some politicians are genuinely in alignment with that wing of the party, but many others are willing to pander to them out of fear that they can't get elected without them.

I think a principled center-right politician, such as Huntsman or Romney, could retain the 3/4s of the party that aren't religious extremists, while drawing centrists from the Democrats (many of whom are probably going to be appalled at what the O tries to do over the next four years). A candidate who can say, "I respect your religious beliefs, but in a pluralistic society they do not belong in public school classrooms" and is willing to take the consequences would certainly earn my respect, and probably that of many others, too. And for Huntsman or Romney, as Mormons, what have they got to lose anyway? The Baptists already think they're going to hell.

132 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:45:37pm

re: #104 Last Mohican

And then there's this.

I don't know which is right. As I said, I'm gonna have to take a year or two and try to form an informed opinion on this.

They are both right. The graph at American Thinker shows a time scale of the past 600 million years. The graph at Wikipedia shows a graph of data for the last 800 thousand years. In other words, the Wikipedia graph shows a tiny detail of only the most recent era.

133 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:45:38pm

re: #109 cronus
He's a bit of a mixed bag. No on vouchers and tight with teachers unions, which is also unusual for a Republican. Do you have a link for his abortion position? I thought he was pretty moderate, at least allowing exceptions in certain cases.

134 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:45:56pm

re: #130 Russkilitlover

Oh, brother. Have fun in wilderness, folks.

The GOP seems intent on going the way of the Whig party.

135 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:46:02pm

re: #123 MacGregor

Here's more from the source of the article. It looks like Co2 follows temperature on that chart.

Yep, CO2 has tended to be a lagging indicator vis a vis tempurature, not a leading one.

136 Buck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:46:04pm

re: #21 Liberal Classic

I disagree. Human activity can change the atmosphere. Just as our release of chlorofluorocarbons affected the ozone layer, our release of carbon dioxide can affect the amount of energy absorbed by the atmosphere at infrared wavelengths.

OK... lets say that is true, and I am not even conceding the ozone layer and chlorofluorocarbons... But if a tiny change in carbon dioxide can affect the amount of energy absorbed by the atmosphere, what effect will it have... warming our planet, or cooling it?

Also... as the earth naturally warms (due to the SUN), in a cycle that goes back further than humans... what effect would the natural evaporation of the oceans have on amount of energy absorbed by the atmosphere? Should we be looking at stopping that process as well?

/you don't have to answer.....I already know the answers.

137 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:46:16pm

re: #109 cronus

Up until he came out for civil unions a couple months ago, Huntsman was viewed as a pretty conventional social conservative. He is staunchly pro-life and just signed a couple bills on abortion in March. I'm not sure how his social conservative support will play out, but he will not have the kind of chronic inability to connect that Rudy had or to a lesser extent Romney suffered from.

My guess is it still isn't good enough that he's pro-life. He supports science, gay rights, and he's a mormon. Not really the so-con's ideal, and it's not as if they're real hip on compromise.

138 wiffersnapper  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:46:32pm

How dare huntsman preach common sense and anti-paranoia when clearly the GOP is in crack-up mode!

/sarc

139 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:46:41pm

re: #129 pegcity

problem with giving civil unions is that it will lead to the call for gay marriage, so in my mind civil unions are just a trojan horse to further club conservatives.

In canada we gave them marriage, and you know what turns out gays don't want to get married, but it sure shut them up.

We called their bluff.

And what is wrong with gay marriages?

140 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:46:48pm

Don't leave yet -- stay in here and fight. Give it til 2010, if the cro magnon paleocons are still calling the shots at that point then I'll throw in the towell with you and register D.

141 Baier  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:46:59pm

re: #129 pegcity

problem with giving civil unions is that it will lead to the call for gay marriage, so in my mind civil unions are just a trojan horse to further club conservatives.

In canada we gave them marriage, and you know what turns out gays don't want to get married, but it sure shut them up.

We called their bluff.

Why the hell should you or anyone care who gets married to who? How is it your or the states business?

142 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:47:11pm

re: #134 FurryOldGuyJeans

They will switch places, the Whigs are coming back.

Google Modern Whig Party.

143 cronus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:47:11pm

re: #133 tackle

He's a bit of a mixed bag. No on vouchers and tight with teachers unions, which is also unusual for a Republican. Do you have a link for his abortion position? I thought he was pretty moderate, at least allowing exceptions in certain cases.

http://www.lifenews.com/state3979.html

144 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:47:15pm

re: #122 Occasional Reader

I'm in favor of Civil Unions.

What I'm opposed to are the Downright Rude Unions.

But they want to be queer and in your face.

////////////////////////////////////

145 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:47:52pm

re: #130 Russkilitlover

Oh, brother. Have fun in wilderness, folks.


He was apparently supposed to talke on education reform.

146 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:47:53pm

C'mon Libertarian Party, make your move!

147 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:47:57pm

re: #116 Last Mohican

Great. That's really constructive.

Okay, I'm with Ojoe. The GOP can go take a flying leap.

I though civil unions had wide spread support, but not gay marriage.

148 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:47:59pm

re: #129 pegcity

problem with giving civil unions is that it will lead to the call for gay marriage, so in my mind civil unions are just a trojan horse to further club conservatives.

In canada we gave them marriage, and you know what turns out gays don't want to get married, but it sure shut them up.

We called their bluff.

Yes sir, you certainly put them back in the closet. You sound like a bigot to me.

149 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:48:23pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

And what is wrong with gay marriages?

it's blasphemous!

150 Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:48:36pm

I think that there is a global breathing problem and everybody needs to hold their breath for five minutes each day. It will cut down on CO2 production.

151 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:48:42pm

re: #142 Ojoe

They will switch places, the Whigs are coming back.

Google Modern Whig Party.

I am not talking about some new movement. The original Whig party is dead and gone, never to rise again. The Modern Whig Party is something different.

152 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:48:54pm

re: #93 jcbunga

Can anyone say that ANY politicians in office today are worthy?

The Dems are so far left that FDR, JFK and LBJ wouldn't be allowed at the convention today. Do they even get quoted anymore?

The Republicans have fled from Reaganism and are bewildered why they've lost the power they had.

Even those truly devoted to serving the people, and they are few in number, have to admit that whatever they've tried to maintain a representative government has failed.

There's not a damn one of them on either side who is worthy of the job, the people or the sacrifices made by the military. They ALL need to go.

The comedic feature of Spector is that any Republican would be shocked. He saw his poll numbers and fled. To this crowd that's not a failing, it's a strategy.

Throw them all out and start over.

Perhaps a bigger question might be, would those politicians of the past that are so highly revered have been able to succeed in the face of the current media climate?

153 Baier  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:48:58pm

re: #150 Steve

I think that there is a global breathing problem and everybody needs to hold their breath for five minutes each day. It will cut down on CO2 production.

and stay away from taco bell

154 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:49:02pm

re: #149 albusteve

it's blasphemous!

Steve, use a fucking sarc tag or else you're just gonna confuse the bigots. :)

155 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:49:03pm

re: #102 Son of the Black Dog

And someone should occasionally point out that the Gore family fortune was made in coal and oil. See: Albert Gore, Sr. and Island Creek Coal Company and Occidental Petroleum.

* * * * * *
Gore's father was a Senator and Gore grew up in a Washington, DC hotel on Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. on Embassy Row.

Gore fully expected to be given high office, and to get rich off his high offices.

Gore's rage at losing to George Bush only made him more determined to get rich & powerful on the global scale. Now Gore's got a Global Gig that pays bigtime.

Gore has exceeded my low expectations of him as an inside the Beltway opportunist.

156 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:49:15pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

And what is wrong with gay marriages?

They serve delicious hors de oevres and the champagne is to *die* for, I tell you.

157 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:49:26pm

Just in, Obama pledges more military supplies to Pakistan to fight the Taliban.

158 cronus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:49:27pm

re: #129 pegcity

problem with giving civil unions is that it will lead to the call for gay marriage, so in my mind civil unions are just a trojan horse to further club conservatives.

In canada we gave them marriage, and you know what turns out gays don't want to get married, but it sure shut them up.

We called their bluff.

I await your running tally of the heterosexual marriages destroyed by gay unions

159 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:49:34pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

Steve, use a fucking sarc tag or else you're just gonna confuse the bigots. :)

/

160 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:49:42pm

re: #146 SFGoth

C'mon Libertarian Party, make your move!

They are with Bob Barr and Ron Paul...

/good luck with that...

161 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:02pm

re: #156 SFGoth

They serve delicious hors de oevres and the champagne is to *die* for, I tell you.

Works for me.

162 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:12pm

re: #136 Buck

OK... lets say that is true, and I am not even conceding the ozone layer and chlorofluorocarbons...

There's absolutely no question whatsoever that chlorofluorocarbons do affect the ozone layer. It's been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.

163 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:12pm

re: #135 Occasional Reader

This graph also shows the CO2 concentrations lag temperature changes. If CO2 was the main cause of temperature change, the the CO2 concentrations would lead temperature changes.

164 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:13pm

re: #155 alegrias

and Gore grew up in a Washington, DC hotel on Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. on Embassy Row.

Where, of course, he learned from his father how to plow a hilly field with a mule (etc. etc.).

165 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:43pm

re: #151 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yes.

And I agree with you the GOP is on the way out.

Just the fact that it kept a big deficit for 8 years under GWB is enough to do it in if you ask me.

166 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:49pm

re: #164 Occasional Reader

Where, of course, he learned from his father how to plow a hilly field with a mule (etc. etc.).

Which he check out from the mill.

167 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:50pm

re: #163 Kenneth

This graph also shows the CO2 concentrations lag temperature changes. If CO2 was the main cause of temperature change, the the CO2 concentrations would lead temperature changes.

Yes... um, that's what I just said.

168 redstateredneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:50:59pm

re: #164 Occasional Reader

Where, of course, he learned from his father how to plow a hilly field with a mule (etc. etc.).

A lot of tobacco to be chopped in D.C.

169 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:05pm

re: #146 SFGoth

C'mon Libertarian Party, make your move!

Doubtful any new party will become mainstream nation-wide. Most likely we will end up for real what has been largely an operational fact, a one party system.

170 Neutral President  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:18pm

re: #146 SFGoth

C'mon Libertarian Party, make your move!

They are too busy arguing about whether or not jewish banking cabals or the war on drugs should be their primary issue to pursue in 2010-2012.

171 Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:20pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

Steve, use a fucking sarc tag or else you're just gonna confuse the bigots. :)

re: #159 albusteve

/

/SARC.............

Happy Now! /SARC

172 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:30pm

re: #143 cronus

cheers

173 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:30pm

re: #104 Last Mohican

And then there's this.

I don't know which is right. As I said, I'm gonna have to take a year or two and try to form an informed opinion on this.

In that last chart, isn't it interesting that CO2 levels rise and fall AFTER temperature rises and falls (respectively)?

174 KenJen  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:39pm

re: #101 Sharmuta

I like Huntsman so far. I hope he considers going for the nomination in 2012.

Of course PETA will attempt to force him to change his name to Gathersman.

175 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:52pm

re: #157 avanti

Just in, Obama pledges more military supplies to Pakistan to fight the Taliban.

Change!

176 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:51:58pm

re: #93 jcbunga

Can anyone say that ANY politicians in office today are worthy?

The Dems are so far left that FDR, JFK and LBJ wouldn't be allowed at the convention today. Do they even get quoted anymore?

The Republicans have fled from Reaganism and are bewildered why they've lost the power they had.

Maybe it's we who are not worthy. And I say this respectfully but I see time after time that we return to office and reward those politicians who will promise the most goodies.
There's that old saying that the reason there's so much junk on TV is because that is what the public wants. The same axiom applies to politics as well IMHO.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
- Benjamin Franklin

177 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:52:04pm

re: #112 Kenneth

Charles, some clown is going through the early posts of the We Got Mail thread and down dinging like mad.

Not any more.

178 freedomplow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:52:07pm

Know how you win local and state elections? You run people that can win there.

179 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:52:23pm

re: #177 Charles

Not any more.

Touche'

180 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:52:33pm

re: #167 Occasional Reader

Yes... um, that's what I just said.

Yes... um, that's what I just said.
//

181 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:52:55pm

Greenhouse Gasses.

infamously funny, nsfw if sound on.

BBL

182 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:52:59pm

re: #158 cronus

I await your running tally of the heterosexual marriages destroyed by gay unions

Anyone else notice that since the 90's you really don't hear about fathers abandoning their families as much as they used to decades ago? My theory is that the fathers were gay men who were pressured into marriage and procreation to avoid being outed (I don't mean this literally, but they conformed to hide their orientation) and then just had to escape, whereas nowadays, at least most gay men aren't pressured into settling down and having a family. Just my thought.

183 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:53:04pm

re: #146 SFGoth

C'mon Libertarian Party, make your move!

They are - or at least the paulians are self identifying as Libertarians. Not an attractive option.

184 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:53:18pm

re: #168 redstateredneck

A lot of tobacco to be chopped in D.C.

It's a hard life here, but it has its rewards. When we see that the crops are finally in, and we can say "this is my own, the fruit of my hard labor", it's quite satisfying. Me, I'm hoping to get enough money together to buy me a nice little piece of land right next to the Four Seasons in Georgetown; grow some corn, maybe a little soybean.

/

185 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:53:29pm

re: #157 avanti

You happy about your war monger now?

186 looking closely  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:53:39pm

re: #26 Charles

By the way, being in the scientific minority doesn't make you "wrong". Likewise, acting in good faith doesn't make you "right".

As you know, science history is filled with scientists who were scorned or mocked by their peers for what later turned out to be major contributions. (In fact, the more significant the contribution, usually the more its resisted!).

There are "fashion trends" in science, and there is peer pressure to conform. The latter is especially pronounced now that grant money is largely controlled by review committees made up of academic dogmatists. If you stray too far off the beaten path, you can't get grant money, and your science career will come to a screeching halt.

If you are in science, there is considerable pressure to put out results (ie "publish or perish"). And that leads to considerable pressure on individuals to "fudge" or even "entirely fabricate" data.

187 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:53:52pm

re: #160 Thanos

They are with Bob Barr and Ron Paul...

/good luck with that...

I think they just needed warm bodies at the time. I can't vote for Barr. Ugh. Ron Paul's a GOP'er ain't he these days?

188 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:01pm

With the party reeling from Sen. Arlen Specter’s defection, a prominent moderate Republican governor is warning that GOP leaders in Washington have failed to offer a positive alternative to President Obama’s initiatives.

“You can’t just say no. You can’t just obstruct or obfuscate,” Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said in an interview with ABC News. “Instead of just kind of grousing and complaining, it would do us all a whole lot of good if we actually started engaging directly in finding compromises and common ground and shared solutions.” ...

I remember all those positive alternatives to the Republicans that the Democrats had.........or did I remember obstructing, obfuscating, attacking, bitching, moaning, whining,?

189 redstateredneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:03pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Anyone else notice that since the 90's you really don't hear about fathers abandoning their families as much as they used to decades ago? My theory is that the fathers were gay men who were pressured into marriage and procreation to avoid being outed (I don't mean this literally, but they conformed to hide their orientation) and then just had to escape, whereas nowadays, at least most gay men aren't pressured into settling down and having a family. Just my thought.

Or because they started locking up deadbeat dads.

190 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:04pm

Again, Huntsman has plenty of points here - particularly with the message. I'd start with the need to be fiscally responsible. His state has been relatively good in dealing with the downturn, and he's adopted a single rate income tax, which was phased in over two years. Taxes aren't going up nearly as much at the state level as they were elsewhere, although some localities are increasing taxes and fees.

You want to lead the GOP out of the wilderness, there's your start. Start preaching fiscal conservatism - fiscal responsibility, and go from there. It doesn't mean going tea partying (though enjoying a Sam Adams now and then isn't a bad thing). It means trimming budgets and cutting spending instead of a first impulse to increase taxes to cover falling revenues.

Democrats will always outspend GOPers when they try to play that game. As others may have pointed out, the GOP wasn't against a stimulus package - they were against the one that passed because it was so damned bloated. They got outspent. And they will always get outspent because that's what Democrats do.

191 cronus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:26pm

re: #137 Sharmuta

My guess is it still isn't good enough that he's pro-life. He supports science, gay rights, and he's a mormon. Not really the so-con's ideal, and it's not as if they're real hip on compromise.

Well based on #59 you may be right.

192 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:26pm

re: #44 Russkilitlover

Being labelled the "party of no" is a simplistic, effective mantra for the left but I agree it's not a solution to much of anything. But neither is this.....

Republicans DO need to craft a plan that they can rally around. Compromising our way to socialism, however, is not a plan.

That is for sure. If you look at the Dems, they were NOTHING but the party that said no, No and NO to everything Bush did for 8 years. Yet, they are now in power.

The Republicans do need to grab our ears and pull our collective heads out of you know where and start coming up with something positive to counter the left. But, Obama won with sheer personality not on substantive policy. The HopeyChange platform was long on rhetoric and short on details. Well, it's not short now, he wants to turn the USA into Europe! He offers the same old worn out useless drivel the liberals (now called Progressives) have offered up since the 1960's.

What is positive about any of their platform? Punish the ones creating wealth and jobs and give it to the ones not creating wealth and jobs, that is positive?. Taking over entire sectors of our economy and replacing it with benevolent government bureaucrats, that is positive? Tossing aside the way every President for the past 50 years has dealt with scumbag dictators, so people will "like us more"? PLLLLEEEAASSEEE

Obama will help the right get back when all of his plans ram this country into an iceberg. In the meantime, the right needs to get a set platform and policy and repeat it over and over and over, like a drumbeat, so everyone knows what we stand for.....

193 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:36pm

re: #176 LGoPs

Goes back to Jefferson's, "Those who would choose security over freedom deserve neither."

194 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:41pm

re: #175 Kenneth

Change!

they have not yet proven proven they will take on the Taliban toe to toe and get it over...supplies for what?...they need some kinda Knute Rockne in the front

195 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:54:43pm

re: #184 Occasional Reader

It's a hard life here, but it has its rewards. When we see that the crops are finally in, and we can say "this is my own, the fruit of my hard labor", it's quite satisfying. Me, I'm hoping to get enough money together to buy me a nice little piece of land right next to the Four Seasons in Georgetown; grow some corn, maybe a little soybean.

/

Think I'll move to Montana
Become a dental floss tycoon

196 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:55:05pm

re: #129 pegcity

problem with giving civil unions is that it will lead to the call for gay marriage, so in my mind civil unions are just a trojan horse to further club conservatives.

In canada we gave them marriage, and you know what turns out gays don't want to get married, but it sure shut them up.

We called their bluff.

Civil unions and gay marriage isn't a GOP/Dem divided issue. Obama is on the same page as many GOPers when it comes to gay marriage.

197 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:55:18pm

re: #103 FurryOldGuyJeans

The only reason why being a Mormon is "bad" since it is a cult according to so many on the far right. They only want THEIR religious dogma to be supreme.

True Dat. In that respect we're no more special than the Jews or any other minority religion. Although the Jews have a 6000 year head start on the whole religion thing! :-)

198 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:55:33pm

re: #186 looking closely

By the way, being in the scientific minority doesn't make you "wrong".

I didn't say that. But after a scientific study passes through peer review, and the results are duplicated by multiple other scientists, the likelihood that all of those researchers are mistaken is very small.

199 redstateredneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:55:43pm

re: #184 Occasional Reader

Mr. and Mrs. OR

200 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:55:57pm

re: #196 lawhawk

Civil unions and gay marriage isn't a GOP/Dem divided issue. Obama is on the same page as many GOPers when it comes to gay marriage.

F**kin' bigot.

201 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:55:59pm

re: #141 Baier

Why the hell should you or anyone care who gets married to who? How is it your or the states business?

* * * *
Yeah!///

Up the marriage license tax
Up the marriage tax!
Up the tax on wedding planning
Up the taxes on divorce lawyers.
Up the taxes on dying intestate.

You're right, this could be very lucrative for Dems.

202 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:06pm

re: #124 Charles

There's still a debate, yes, but I'm seeing way too much blanket denial and way too little respect for the scientific method on the right.

I would like to see proof CO2 feedback overrides solar variance on our climate. AGW theory needs retroviral DNA-like proof.

203 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:13pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Anyone else notice that since the 90's you really don't hear about fathers abandoning their families as much as they used to decades ago? My theory is that the fathers were gay men who were pressured into marriage and procreation to avoid being outed (I don't mean this literally, but they conformed to hide their orientation) and then just had to escape, whereas nowadays, at least most gay men aren't pressured into settling down and having a family. Just my thought.

I don't think so. Out of wedlock birth rates are still quite high.

204 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:16pm

re: #177 Charles

Not any more.

Nice Clint Eastwood accent, btw.

205 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:31pm

re: #157 avanti

Just in, Obama pledges more military supplies to Pakistan to fight the Taliban.

Wonder where those will end up?

206 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:32pm

re: #164 Occasional Reader

Where, of course, he learned from his father how to plow a hilly field with a mule (etc. etc.).

And pick tobacco with his bare hands.

207 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:35pm

re: #127 avanti

Even if I accepted that, you'd be hard pressed to explain all the most respected science groups support of AGW around the world. Take Gore off the table, and just follow the science.

It was in his congressional testimony earlier this week. He blew the question of the finances off with a smirk.
And you're right, we should follow the science. All of the science. Not just the cherry picked science.

208 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:35pm

re: #137 Sharmuta

My guess is it still isn't good enough that he's pro-life. He supports science, gay rights, and he's a mormon. Not really the so-con's ideal, and it's not as if they're real hip on compromise.

His support for gay rights is a real deal-killer for the Tony Perkins-Ralph Reed gang.

209 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:42pm

re: #184 Occasional Reader

It's a hard life here, but it has its rewards. When we see that the crops are finally in, and we can say "this is my own, the fruit of my hard labor", it's quite satisfying. Me, I'm hoping to get enough money together to buy me a nice little piece of land right next to the Four Seasons in Georgetown; grow some corn, maybe a little soybean.

/

Isn't there a lot for sale next to the Mayflower? Very accessible to Dupont Circle, great fruits growing up there.
/

210 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:45pm

re: #163 Kenneth

This graph also shows the CO2 concentrations lag temperature changes. If CO2 was the main cause of temperature change, the the CO2 concentrations would lead temperature changes.


Here is how a very excellent professor I had showed us how to look at data with a critical eye. He was an experimental design expert.

He showed us a graph of the stork population of a small European town vs the human population, over time. Sure enough, it looked as if the people increased as the storks increased! Does this mean that we can conclude that storks bring babies?

In reality, the storks liked to nest on a roof rather than in a tree. The storks were increasing as houses increased. That little bit of information was needed to interpret the data. This example has stuck with me, and I always consider that there may be alternate ways to interpret data.

211 KenJen  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:56:46pm

re: #157 avanti

Just in, Obama pledges more military supplies to Pakistan to fight the Taliban.

Should we be giving more weapons to an unstable country that looks like it about to get over run by the Taliban?

212 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:57:14pm

re: #200 solomonpanting

What?!

213 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:57:24pm

re: #146 SFGoth

C'mon Libertarian Party, make your move!

* * * *
Like Spanish anarchists, they refuse to associate with anyone to do anything so they achieve nothing.

214 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:57:56pm

re: #157 avanti

Just in, Obama pledges more military supplies to Pakistan to fight the Taliban.

Oh, goody. That makes all the obscenities he's inflicted on America all better.

215 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:57:57pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Fathers abandoning families still happens. Mothers too. I don't no of any evidence it's happening less. In fact it's happening more, IMO.

As for gay parents of generations ago. More likely they escaped into alcohol. I know of one man, the father of a friend, who was in the closet. By mutual agreement with his wife, once a year he would go on a "private vacation" to the big city for a week. Not a happy life, but it's one way.

216 Baier  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:57:59pm

re: #201 alegrias

* * * *
Yeah!///

Up the marriage license tax
Up the marriage tax!
Up the tax on wedding planning
Up the taxes on divorce lawyers.
Up the taxes on dying intestate.

You're right, this could be very lucrative for Dems.

?.

217 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:58:02pm

re: #197 DaddyG

True Dat. In that respect we're no more special than the Jews or any other minority religion. Although the Jews have a 6000 year head start on the whole religion thing! :-)

The hatred nationwide against someone who is Mormon is all too similar with 1960 with Catholicism and JFK. Religious bigotry is alive in the 21st century.

218 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:58:05pm

re: #196 lawhawk

Civil unions and gay marriage isn't a GOP/Dem divided issue. Obama is on the same page as many GOPers when it comes to gay marriage.

Publicly. Privately, c'mon, you think he's really anti-gay marriage? After all, Specter publicly said he was a Republican.

219 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:58:18pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

And what is wrong with gay marriages?

Nothing, unless I'm forced into one, then I'll have issues. :)

220 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:58:31pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Anyone else notice that since the 90's you really don't hear about fathers abandoning their families as much as they used to decades ago? My theory is that the fathers were gay men who were pressured into marriage and procreation to avoid being outed (I don't mean this literally, but they conformed to hide their orientation) and then just had to escape, whereas nowadays, at least most gay men aren't pressured into settling down and having a family. Just my thought.

Are you kidding me? 40% of all children these days are born out of wedlock. Most of those sperm donors are not sticking around even until Junior is potty trained. The divorce rate is still roughly half. That's a lot of fatherless kids out there.

I think it's a great thing that few gay men feel pressured to marry and have a family these days (although I can think of at least two in my personal acquaintance, both of whom subsequently abandoned their families). I don't think that change is significant in terms of overall numbers.

221 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:58:36pm

Gotta run to a meeting. BBL

222 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:58:53pm

re: #207 LGoPs

It was in his congressional testimony earlier this week. He blew the question of the finances off with a smirk.
And you're right, we should follow the science. All of the science. Not just the cherry picked science.

And Congress refused to let anyone testify in opposition to Gore.

223 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:59:08pm

re: #192 Desert Dog

In the meantime, the right needs to get a set platform and policy and repeat it over and over and over

But how can the GOP for instance talk about balancing the budget after Bush's deficits?

Plus, the GOP is seen as the party of "Big Business", which is viewed as the cause of many problems at the moment, and with some reason, seeing as big business has shipped many jobs overseas.

The GOP doesn't have to jump, it already has & it just hasn't hit the pavement yet.

224 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:59:13pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Isn't there a lot for sale next to the Mayflower? Very accessible to Dupont Circle, great fruits growing up there.
/

The hard part is when an entire crop here in DC is taken out by the hordes of locusts... them are some lean years, brother.

225 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:59:16pm

re: #219 avanti

Nothing, unless I'm forced into one, then I'll have issues. :)

Nope, not gonna do it, naw, not even going to comment.

226 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:59:17pm

re: #202 MacGregor

I would like to see proof CO2 feedback overrides solar variance on our climate. AGW theory needs retroviral DNA-like proof.

The sun on average has cooled for the past 85 years, our temperature at best has remained the same or increased a bit.

227 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:59:21pm

re: #191 cronus

Well based on #59 you may be right.

And that's just disgusting to me. Sarah Palin allowed for same sex marriage benefits in Alaska- where's the blowback from that? Hypocritical, imo.

228 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:59:38pm

Sorry for the OT, but just got this from a "christian" justice-type and I'm formulating a beat-down;

I was surprised that the walk-out at the Durban II conference took place in response to Ahmadenejad mentioning that Israel is a racist country.
Who could possibly disagree with that?
After looking at the actual policies put forth by Israel, one has no choice but to conclude that Israel is racist.

If you disagree with what I say, please give me your own definition of racism and explain why Israel does not fit that definition.

PS. The Arab states are also racist, so I'm not saying that Israel is worse than they are. Indeed, Ahmadenejad's speech was a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. But... does that take away from the truth that Israel is a racist nation that discriminates unabashedly between people BASED ON race?

Jackass.

229 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 12:59:58pm

re: #194 albusteve

"US Military supplies" to Pakistan is a euphemism for "bribes to keep the military form overthrowing the government".

230 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:00:16pm

re: #73 doppelganglander

I think it's almost impossible for an intelligent lay person to develop an informed opinion about AGW. Everything I see is so politicized, and usually accompanied by shrillness and hysteria.

There are really 3 separate issues: 1) Is it getting warmer? 2) If so, is man causing it? and 3) If 1 and 2 are true, what, if anything, should we do about it?

I simply don't trust anyone on either side of the issue.

The thermometers in my front and back yard don't agree on the temperature. How accurate were thermometers a hundred years ago and where were they placed? Facts would be nice.

231 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:00:23pm

re: #222 FurryOldGuyJeans

And Congress refused to let anyone testify in opposition to Gore.

that right there should spike the deal...it was an outrage and few across the mainstream even know...I hate the feds

232 VioletTiger  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:00:40pm

re: #196 lawhawk

Civil unions and gay marriage isn't a GOP/Dem divided issue. Obama is on the same page as many GOPers when it comes to gay marriage.

He isn't called on it at all, however.

233 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:00:40pm

Another good Jefferson.. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

234 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:00:58pm

re: #175 Kenneth

Change!

I have doveish friends to the left of me that will be e-mailing me shortly.

235 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:01:10pm

re: #229 Kenneth

"US Military supplies" to Pakistan is a euphemism for "bribes to keep the military form overthrowing the government".

money bombs

236 Buck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:01:40pm

re: #26 Charles

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

It's not right to simply deny all of that evidence and say that a huge number of scientists are either lying or flat-out wrong, or that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are all mistaken.

I really liked the earlier post about the majority not always being right.

I just don't like being lied to. The hockey stick graph... a PROVEN lie... the middle age warming period? Ignored... (and that is a form of a lie).

I also think that changing from Global Warming to Climate change when it started to look like cooling was happening instead of the predicted warming ... well I think it is telling.

Charles... you and I can disagree. Without it becoming an issue..... I mention that outloud not for your benefit, but for your detractors...

237 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:01:50pm

re: #226 Thanos

Interesting - I thought the decline in solar activity was recent and corresponded with a slight cooling. Do you have a link?

238 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:01:58pm

re: #231 albusteve

that right there should spike the deal...it was an outrage and few across the mainstream even know...I hate the feds

Your DHS file is now officially Open.

/

239 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:02:02pm

re: #200 solomonpanting

Excuse me? What was bigoted for pointing out an objective fact. Obama's position is the same as many GOPers. How does that make me bigoted. I didn't say anything that provided my opinion on gay marriage or civil unions.

240 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:02:07pm

re: #212 Occasional Reader

What?!

Except for my not desiring to "put them back in the closet" I was merely echoing Walter L. Newton @ #148.

241 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:02:37pm

re: #239 lawhawk


I wasn't calling you a bigot.

242 Lightspeed  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:02:40pm

re: #26 Charles

The fact is that there is a LOT of scientific evidence that increasing CO2 emissions by human beings, mostly due to fossil fuels, are having an effect on the earth's climate.

It's not right to simply deny all of that evidence and say that a huge number of scientists are either lying or flat-out wrong, or that thousands of peer-reviewed studies are all mistaken.

There is quite a bit of scientific evidence that man is having almost NO effect on climate change. It is a natural process. Increases in CO2 levels have followed increases in temperature, not the other way around. Many reputable scientist theorize that solar flares, sunspots, and water vapor in the atmosphere have a MUCH greater influence on climate change than does CO2, to the point of making CO2 insignificant.

Who says a warmer Earth is bad? The Earth and mankind flourished during earlier warm periods. Greenland in the time of the Vikings was just that, a green land, not covered in ice as it is today. The Renaissance was a time when the Earth was several degrees warmer than it is now, yet it was a time of incredible progress for mankind.

It is the height of arrogance to think that we are having any real impact on the climate an that we can "save" it. If the Earth is due for another Ice Age, we are going to have an Ice Age, whether we like it or not.

There is so much more to say. I am just astonished at how many people buy into this stuff. Yes, many, many scientist are DEAD WRONG. I believe the 31,000 or so who signed this petition are right. I believe Freeman Dyson is right. AGW is the biggest scam going.

Greenie Watch

243 midwestgak  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:02:50pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Just my thought.

{SFGoth}

You are not alone with having thoughts. I seek like-minded thinkers. LGF has many polical thinkers. I have found common thinkers here, that have nothing to do with politics.

Honest, real life people. Just my thought.

244 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:02:56pm

re: #225 Walter L. Newton

Nope, not gonna do it, naw, not even going to comment.

Hey, have fun Walter. If I tossed one right in your strike zone, it would not be fair to not give you a swing.

245 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:02:58pm

re: #164 Occasional Reader

Where, of course, he learned from his father how to plow a hilly field with a mule (etc. etc.).

* * * * *
OR, you know and I know and the American People know, Senators go "home" on weekends to get the lay of the land, and stay in touch with their constituents.

That's how Al Gore Jr. learned to plow hills for the camera.

(Like dipping wife Tipper & kissing passionately on the convention stage to convey "I am not Bill Clinton")

246 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:03:03pm

re: #220 doppelganglander

Are you kidding me? 40% of all children these days are born out of wedlock. Most of those sperm donors are not sticking around even until Junior is potty trained. The divorce rate is still roughly half. That's a lot of fatherless kids out there.

I think it's a great thing that few gay men feel pressured to marry and have a family these days (although I can think of at least two in my personal acquaintance, both of whom subsequently abandoned their families). I don't think that change is significant in terms of overall numbers.

I was talking about married men abandoning their families after several years, not the guy who just stuck around long enough to ejaculate.

247 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:03:04pm

re: #196 lawhawk

Civil unions and gay marriage isn't a GOP/Dem divided issue. Obama is on the same page as many GOPers when it comes to gay marriage.

Why shouldn't O be for gay marriage? He's so in love with himself I bet he wishes he could marry himself.

248 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:03:05pm

re: #162 Charles

There's absolutely no question whatsoever that chlorofluorocarbons do affect the ozone layer. It's been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.

One of the greatest environmental success stories of the human race was reducing CFCs and the subsequent restoration of the ozone layer.

Banning DDT, the most effective mosquito control vector ever known, has been a different story entirely.

249 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:03:11pm

re: #218 SFGoth

By the same token, do you really think all those GOP politicians who say that they're against gay marriage are really against it, or are they pandering to their constituencies as well? It's a game both parties play.

250 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:03:23pm

re: #131 doppelganglander I agree with the political stance. In fairness most of my good Baptist and Evangelical neighbors respect my Mormon beliefs despite some distinct doctrinal differences. The South is a great place to be a Mormon if you can suffer the occasional fool. In fact its easier here than it is in Utah IMO.

But back to the topic - I agree that there is more to be gained on fiscally conservative and socially moderate (or even socially libertarian) ground than there is trying to firm up an increasingly speciallized social agenda.

251 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:03:41pm

re: #208 Charles

His support for gay rights is a real deal-killer for the Tony Perkins-Ralph Reed gang.

I think gay rights is another issue that's going to end up killing the GOP in the future.

252 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:03:43pm

re: #224 Occasional Reader

The hard part is when an entire crop here in DC is taken out by the hordes of locusts... them are some lean years, brother.

And then there was that dream about the fatted calf followed by the lean calf

253 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:04:00pm
254 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:04:09pm

re: #245 alegrias

(Like dipping wife Tipper & kissing passionately on the convention stage to convey "I am not Bill Clinton")

I thought it was because he was going through Pon Farr?

255 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:04:15pm

re: #238 Occasional Reader

Your DHS file is now officially Open.

/

I'm only a threat to myself
(yer honor)

256 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:04:52pm

re: #251 Sharmuta

I think gay rights is another issue that's going to end up killing the GOP in the future.

The future is now by the way the radicals on the far right seem to be demanding what the GOP is.

257 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:04:53pm

re: #234 avanti

Why is Obama arming the Pakistanis? Now that Osama is dead we can all call it quits.

//

258 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:05:01pm

re: #249 lawhawk

By the same token, do you really think all those GOP politicians who say that they're against gay marriage are really against it, or are they pandering to their constituencies as well? It's a game both parties play.

Is it too much for me to suggest that these politicians start acting like rational human beings and not some wind up political toy?

Absolute power doesn't corrupt, it sucks.

259 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:05:02pm

re: #254 Occasional Reader

I thought it was because he was going through Pon Farr?

Now I've got the original Star Trek fight music in my head. Evil!

260 redstateredneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:05:59pm

re: #246 SFGoth

I was talking about married men abandoning their families after several years, not the guy who just stuck around long enough to ejaculate.


When you hire anyone now, you have to report them to DHS so that if they owe child support it will be withheld from their pay. They may still be leaving, but if they are, they are not abondoning their families. The law doesn't allow it.

261 cronus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:06:21pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

And that's just disgusting to me. Sarah Palin allowed for same sex marriage benefits in Alaska- where's the blowback from that? Hypocritical, imo.

Good point. Huntsman and Palin have a lot in common policy-wise. Both acknowledge AGW, both want to aggressively introduce CNG in lieu of importing more foreign oil, most importantly they both seem to take fiscal conservatism seriously.

262 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:06:31pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Anyone else notice that since the 90's you really don't hear about fathers abandoning their families as much as they used to decades ago? My theory is that the fathers were gay men who were pressured into marriage and procreation to avoid being outed (I don't mean this literally, but they conformed to hide their orientation) and then just had to escape, whereas nowadays, at least most gay men aren't pressured into settling down and having a family. Just my thought.

This is apocryphal but I know many more straight men running away from their wives and children than I do gay men who finally got tired of living a double life. In fact the ratio runs about 100+ to 2 in my experience.

263 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:06:53pm

re: #249 lawhawk

By the same token, do you really think all those GOP politicians who say that they're against gay marriage are really against it, or are they pandering to their constituencies as well? It's a game both parties play.

So we, the American people, end up getting played as saps by the entrenched political class.

264 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:06:58pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Anyone else notice that since the 90's you really don't hear about fathers abandoning their families as much as they used to decades ago? My theory is that the fathers were gay men who were pressured into marriage and procreation to avoid being outed (I don't mean this literally, but they conformed to hide their orientation) and then just had to escape, whereas nowadays, at least most gay men aren't pressured into settling down and having a family. Just my thought.

* * * *
You must not live near public housing where teenage girls push baby carriages and "baby daddies" sell drugs at night in the open air drug markets here in Metro Washington DC.

Marriage is a four letter word in this community to judge by its absence.

265 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:07:01pm

re: #259 MrSilverDragon

Now I've got the original Star Trek fight music in my head. Evil!

Would you prefer an earworm consisting of the "Captain Kirk Making Out With Alien Chick" Overture for Strings?

266 redstateredneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:07:02pm
abondoning


That's a new word that I just made up. It means lack of bonding with the family.

267 NYC_Mike  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:07:06pm
With the party reeling from Sen. Arlen Specter’s defection

Love the MSM spin here. Reeling? Who the hell is reeling? Most of the repubs I know are delighted. Most are saying "Good riddance to bad trash!"

Specter is a opportunistic doofus. He is and never was an effective legislator or statesman. He switched to the (R) for political expediency and he just defected to the (D) for the same reason.
Trust me - if in 6+ years he's still kicking and the political pendulum is back to the other side - I wouldn't put it past him to switch back again!

Honestly - he's of no help and never was. Goodbye. Good riddance!

268 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:07:10pm

re: #196 lawhawk

Civil unions and gay marriage isn't a GOP/Dem divided issue. Obama is on the same page as many GOPers when it comes to gay marriage.

And Prop 8 was soundly approved in California and included a huge amount of support from blacks and Hispanics - not your typical GOP demographic.

269 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:07:41pm

re: #256 FurryOldGuyJeans

The future is now by the way the radicals on the far right seem to be demanding what the GOP is.

Hard to say you're the party of individual rights when you want to deny people certain legal recognitions based on sexual preferences.

270 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:08:04pm

The missing sunspots: Is this the big chill?

Could the Sun play a greater role in recent climate change than has been believed? Climatologists had dismissed the idea and some solar scientists have been reticent about it because of its connections with those who those who deny climate change. But now the speculation has grown louder because of what is happening to our Sun. No living scientist has seen it behave this way. There are no sunspots.


The disappearance of sunspots happens every few years, but this time it’s gone on far longer than anyone expected – and there is no sign of the Sun waking up. “This is the lowest we’ve ever seen. We thought we’d be out of it by now, but we’re not,” says Marc Hairston of the University of Texas. And it’s not just the sunspots that are causing concern. There is also the so-called solar wind – streams of particles the Sun pours out – that is at its weakest since records began. In addition, the Sun’s magnetic axis is tilted to an unusual degree. “This is the quietest Sun we’ve seen in almost a century,” says NASA solar scientist David Hathaway. But this is not just a scientific curiosity. It could affect everyone on Earth and force what for many is the unthinkable: a reappraisal of the science behind recent global warming.

271 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:08:14pm

re: #223 Ojoe

But how can the GOP for instance talk about balancing the budget after Bush's deficits?

Plus, the GOP is seen as the party of "Big Business", which is viewed as the cause of many problems at the moment, and with some reason, seeing as big business has shipped many jobs overseas.

The GOP doesn't have to jump, it already has & it just hasn't hit the pavement yet.

The left is not offering solutions other than taking over entire industries and running up breathtaking debt. First the Banks, then the automobiles....next up....health care. I think the Republicans will have all sorts of economic ammunition to fire at Obama's "Europeanization" of the USA. Obama will be the best thing that ever happened to the Republicans, just like Bush was to the Dems. The Republicans are in the wilderness now, but it is not a permanent exile. If you think it is, you writing off about 50% of this country.

272 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:08:16pm

re: #245 alegrias

Have to hand it to Gore as one political benefit, he sure wasn't even remotely close to Bill and his political savvy.

273 Kaymad  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:08:25pm

It's odd wanting to run social conservatives out of the party or calling them crazies Nationally 24 percent of those crazy young evangelicals voted for Obama. Overall 43 percent voted for him in Ohio, something like 60 percent voted for him in Tennessee. Gosh lets make sure the rest vote democrat so long as they aren't polluting our party.

I'd say we are far less socially conservative now than we were under Reagan. Prayer in school? Not an issue. Making abortion totally illegal? Not on the table. Flag burning ban? Gone. You all would probably have found Reagan to far right to support.

This intelligent design business should be decided locally (and no I'm not for teaching it). Remember when people believed in States rights?

It wasn't so long ago that democrats were totally out of power. I don't see the point in eating ourselves alive, these things are reciprocal. The majority of Americans are still against Gay marriage...and shocka! It doesn't mean they want them stoned! But some act as though it's republicans who are out of step when in fact they are in agreement with our very popular, handsome, young and elegant President.

274 avanti  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:09:01pm

re: #211 KenJen

Should we be giving more weapons to an unstable country that looks like it about to get over run by the Taliban?

If the Taliban gets control, we'll have more to worry about then some trucks and light weapons. I say, arm the Paki's if they'll kill Taliban for us.

275 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:09:23pm

re: #264 alegrias

* * * *
You must not live near public housing where teenage girls push baby carriages and "baby daddies" sell drugs at night in the open air drug markets here in Metro Washington DC.

Marriage is a four letter word in this community to judge by its absence.

Again missing my point. The fathers were never in their mothers' or kids' lives. I'm talking about the dad who splits 10 years into his "arranged" marriage (and isn't just floozing it up with some bimbette down the street).

276 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:09:32pm

re: #217 FurryOldGuyJeans

The hatred nationwide against someone who is Mormon is all too similar with 1960 with Catholicism and JFK. Religious bigotry is alive in the 21st century.


Here is an interesting Gallup poll conducted in the early stages of the 2008 presidential election (February 9-11, 2007, to be exact). To select a few highlights...

5% of Americans said they would not vote for any Black candidate.
7% said they would not vote for any Jewish candidate.
11% said they would not vote for a woman.
24% said they would not vote for a Mormon.
42% said they would not vote for a 72-year-old.
53% said they would not vote for an atheist.

277 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:09:34pm

re: #269 Sharmuta

Hard to say you're the party of individual rights when you want to deny people certain legal recognitions based on sexual preferences.

Is it right that marriage should be limited to one other person at a time?

278 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:09:47pm

re: #265 Occasional Reader

Would you prefer an earworm consisting of the "Captain Kirk Making Out With Alien Chick" Overture for Strings?

Just as long as it's not "Party All the Time" by Eddie Murphy.

279 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:09:49pm

re: #174 KenJen

Of course PETA will attempt to force him to change his name to Gathersman.

* * * *
Excellent insight. PETA is so tolerant of hunting! NOT

280 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:10:26pm

re: #274 avanti

If the Taliban gets control, we'll have more to worry about then some trucks and light weapons. I say, arm the Paki's if they'll kill Taliban for us.

Worked well for us against the Russians in Afghanistan./

281 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:10:28pm

re: #217 FurryOldGuyJeans

The hatred nationwide against someone who is Mormon is all too similar with 1960 with Catholicism and JFK. Religious bigotry is alive in the 21st century.


Yes I think the Kennedy parallel is very apropos. I actually worry about a national Mormon candidate because there is enough bed info. out there on my religion. Despite my blogging on LDS issues I don't really want to go through another round of "what weird thing does Mitt believe" at work. I suppose it does give me an opportunity to explain my views but I try not to mix that in with professional environments.

282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:10:35pm

I hope y'all saw haakondahl's post on the Overnight Open Thread. #386. Totally worth a peek.

I've tried to link it here. I hope it works.

283 looking closely  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:07pm

re: #124 Charles

Being WAY out of my field, I can't comment specifically on studies in atmospheric science other than to say that "the" experiment to determine the effect of CO2 on global climate effectively CANNOT be done. (IE we don't have an extra "control" earth lying around, nor any completely validated climate model to go by).

Modelling climate is unbelievably complex, and as one tiny example, there is good reason to believe that much of the data ostensibly measuring the surface temperature of the earth aren't "right". If we can't even accurately measure the temperature of the earth, then how can we draw any meaningful conclusions about the effect of mankind on climate?

What I can say, is that I've been around the lab enough to have seen *plenty* of bad science of all kinds, from poorly planned and executed experiments, to clueless peer review, to non-reproduceable results, to results shaded for reasons of "political correctness", to outright scientific fraud.

Its enough to have given me a healthy (or perhaps cynical) skepticism of published results. Usually the truth comes out eventually, but not always, and sometimes it can take decades.

So when it comes to AGW, I'm largely agnostic. . .though my tendency is to dismiss the "Chicken littles" like Al Gore or anyone else who likens skepticism of AGW to Holocaust denial.

284 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:07pm

re: #276 Last Mohican

Here is an interesting Gallup poll conducted in the early stages of the 2008 presidential election (February 9-11, 2007, to be exact). To select a few highlights...

5% of Americans said they would not vote for any Black candidate.
7% said they would not vote for any Jewish candidate.
11% said they would not vote for a woman.
24% said they would not vote for a Mormon.
42% said they would not vote for a 72-year-old.
53% said they would not vote for an atheist.

OMG!

/semi

285 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:12pm

re: #269 Sharmuta

Hard to say you're the party of individual rights when you want to deny people certain legal recognitions based on sexual preferences.

Yep. All one needs is the correct amount of judges to manufacture those ancient legal rights.

286 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:14pm

re: #182 SFGoth

Anyone else notice that since the 90's you really don't hear about fathers abandoning their families as much as they used to decades ago? My theory is that the fathers were gay men who were pressured into marriage and procreation to avoid being outed (I don't mean this literally, but they conformed to hide their orientation) and then just had to escape, whereas nowadays, at least most gay men aren't pressured into settling down and having a family. Just my thought.

Um... bad news for your theory, the growth in out of wedlock childbirth has slowed since the 90s, but hasn't declined. Also, did you really think that the numbers of "forced into the marriage closet gay men" would be significant enough to impact those numbers

287 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:19pm

re: #249 lawhawk

By the same token, do you really think all those GOP politicians who say that they're against gay marriage are really against it, or are they pandering to their constituencies as well? It's a game both parties play.

In 2004 people screamed that Bush only won because of them gay-hatin' religious people. Now in 2008, you hear msnbc commentators pontificating on how appealing to the religious aspect of their base is killing the GOP. Gosh, what are they going to do, with all these pesky Christians bringing them down? Really? The same ones that were the only people stupid enough to vote for Bush in 2004? Must be a lot of them.

The GOP lost so heavily for two reasons - Bush went basically AWOL publicly in his second term, and allowed the media, who hates him, step all over him and the GOP. And, John McCain ran the worst campaign ever run by any politician, and let the GOP get slammed unanswered the whole time.

288 Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:20pm

A scientific theory is an integrated conceptual framework for reasoning about a class of phenomena, which is able to coordinate existing facts and laws and sometimes provide predictions of new ones.

A scientific law is a statement of an observed regularity among facts, often expressible as a simple mathematical relationship.

A scientific fact is a controlled, repeatable and/or rigorously verified observation.

289 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:28pm

re: #271 Desert Dog

IMHO with only two major parties each is taken over by the fringes of the left and the right, and as many people cannot stand either, they sit out elections and the country is alternately governed by the extremes. This cannot be good, and we really, really need, IMHO, a big center party.

Gotta get some work done now.

BBL

290 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:11:46pm

re: #274 avanti

If the Taliban gets control, we'll have more to worry about then some trucks and light weapons. I say, arm the Paki's if they'll kill Taliban for us.

We should be thinking about going in there and securing the Pakistani nukes. Or, we should be stepping on the current Pakistani leadership to curb this Taliban nonsense. Of course, neither will happen as long as we have our current leadership.

291 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:12:00pm

re: #261 cronus

Good point. Huntsman and Palin have a lot in common policy-wise. Both acknowledge AGW, both want to aggressively introduce CNG in lieu of importing more foreign oil, most importantly they both seem to take fiscal conservatism seriously.

So why is Huntsman getting raked over the coals, but not Sarah?

It's starting to get to a point for me where I'm wondering how much thinking goes on in the GOP.

292 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:12:12pm

World Health Organization just raised the Alert level to 5 on swine flu.

WTF?

293 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:12:12pm

re: #276 Last Mohican

53% said they would not vote for an atheist.

Woo-hoo! We're number one!

294 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:12:19pm

re: #265 Occasional Reader

You made a fantastic joke yesterday. I laughed really hard when I saw it this morning. Thanks!

295 SFGoth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:12:44pm

re: #278 MrSilverDragon

Just as long as it's not "Party All the Time" by Eddie Murphy.

Would you rather party all the time, or rock and roll all day and party every night?

296 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:13:16pm

re: #276 Last Mohican


5% of Americans said they would not vote for any Black candidate.
7% said they would not vote for any Jewish candidate.
11% said they would not vote for a woman.
24% said they would not vote for a Mormon.
42% said they would not vote for a 72-year-old.
53% said they would not vote for an atheist.

Hey, when does Gladys Knight turn 72? As a black woman who's a Mormon, she could give atheists a run for their money!

297 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:13:30pm

re: #276 Last Mohican

Here is an interesting Gallup poll conducted in the early stages of the 2008 presidential election (February 9-11, 2007, to be exact). To select a few highlights...

5% of Americans said they would not vote for any Black candidate.
7% said they would not vote for any Jewish candidate.
11% said they would not vote for a woman.
24% said they would not vote for a Mormon.
42% said they would not vote for a 72-year-old.
53% said they would not vote for an atheist.

So, all of you Old Black Jewish converts to Mormonism should stop with the atheist talk if you want to get elected!

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:13:47pm

re: #292 jorline

World Health Organization just raised the Alert level to 5 on swine flu.

WTF?

Pssst. The Pork Producers have asked us to not call it the "s" flu word.

299 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:14:05pm

re: #294 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You made a fantastic joke yesterday. I laughed really hard when I saw it this morning. Thanks!

You're welcome. I wish I knew what it was.

300 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:14:06pm

re: #294 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You made a fantastic joke yesterday. I laughed really hard when I saw it this morning. Thanks!

How are you doing with keeping burning objects out of your face?

301 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:14:26pm

Hey Amigos. It's about time for Sicko De Mayo.

302 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:14:43pm

re: #291 Sharmuta

So why is Huntsman getting raked over the coals, but not Sarah?

It's starting to get to a point for me where I'm wondering how much thinking goes on in the GOP.

All I can think is that Social Conservatism is as social and conservative as the ideals expressed by the Taliban or radical Islam. It is all about power and control, apparently.

303 Liberal Classic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:14:44pm

re: #136 Buck

OK... lets say that is true, and I am not even conceding the ozone layer and chlorofluorocarbons... But if a tiny change in carbon dioxide can affect the amount of energy absorbed by the atmosphere, what effect will it have... warming our planet, or cooling it?

...

/you don't have to answer.....I already know the answers.

If you already know the answers, why ask? I'll try to answer anyway.

The physical principle we're interested in to reach answer this question comes from Maxwell's equations. These equations describe the behavior of electromagnetic waves. Specifically, we're interested in the behavior of electromagnetic waves that encounter dielectric boundaries, and what happens to the energy in electromagnetic waves that are reflected or absorbed by dielectric media.

Space is a vacuum, and as everyone knows (I hope) electromagnetic waves do not need a medium in which to propagate. The sun emits a broad spectrum of electromagnetic waves, but most of the energy is contained within the visible wavelengths.

The light waves travel from the vacuum of space into the a dielectric medium, the atmosphere. Now, as it so happens the earth's atmosphere is transparent to visible light. This means that at visible wavelengths the light acts as if it were passing through a vacuum. The light travels through the atmosphere without loss in energy, until it hits the earth. The solid objects on the ground have a variety of dielectric properties. Without going into a lot of detail, I can say that some energy is reflected (the light we see bouncing off of objects) and other energy is absorbed. The absorption of energy warms the earth, and the earth emits light in the infrared spectrum.

Unlike visible wavelengths, the atmosphere is lossy at infrared wavelengths. This means it is not transparent, it is somewhat opaque. This means some portion of the energy contained in an electromagnetic wave is absorbed by the medium as the wave passes through it. The EM wave is attenuated (i.e. made weaker) as the medium absorbs the energy (i.e. it heats up). So, while the atmosphere is transparent to physical light, some of the infrared radiation is absorbed by the atmosphere before the heat rays escape back into space. This idea is known as the greenhouse effect.

Per Maxwell's equations, the amount of energy in an electromagnetic wave lost to the dielectric media is described by an exponential decay function. Exponential decay stars by dropping off rapidly, and then slowly approaches zero. This means when a wave travels through a lossy medium, it will lose a lot of energy rapidly and then slowly peter out the longer it travels through the medium until it is totally gone.

In the case of the atmosphere, the coefficient of this exponential decay has a direct relationship with the amount of carbon dioxide gas in the atmosphere. The more CO2, the more pronounced the exponential decay, and the more energy absorbed by the atmosphere before infrared radiation emitted by the earth escapes into space. Even a small increase in the exponential decay can have a large increase in the amount of heat trapped in the atmosphere over time.

We are releasing large amounts of CO2 from fossil fuels. This CO2 used to be in the atmosphere millions of years ago before before it was metabolized by living organisms. These organisms died and were fossilized. What we're doing by burning fossil fuels is restoring a CO2 balance to the atmosphere as it existed before the ice ages.

Now, I'm not a catastrophist. I don't believe global warming will destroy the earth. As usual, the government comes up with the wrong answers because they ask the wrong questions. The question is not how do we stop global warming. The question is how should mankind cope with inevitable changes in the climate?

304 n2stox  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:15:17pm

re: #33 Thom

While Gov. HUntsman is right on the mark for the most part, this quote is simply fatuous.

Common ground? Compromise? With Reid and Pelosi commanding unmoveable majorities?

Not possible.


Agree. It's a bit difficult to find commong ground with Pelosi & Co. writing the stimulus and not posting it for review in time for others to read it.

Same with the budget. Same with just about everything else.

How can we find common ground, then?

Dems answer: "Just start thinking like us. Support gay marriage, gun bans, higher taxes, unlimited abortion, unlimited immigration, nationalized healthcare, and our $3+ trillion budget and projected $17+ trillion debt in 10 years. Oh, and as for national security, support our massive cuts and help us apologize to the world for everything."

Pardon me, but where is the common ground there? Where is common ground when the minority opposition isn't even invited to the table?

305 redstateredneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:15:20pm

re: #292 jorline

World Health Organization just raised the Alert level to 5 on swine flu.

WTF?

What color is 5?

306 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:15:47pm

re: #293 Occasional Reader

Woo-hoo! We're number one!


How about Gladys Knight for a running mate?
/heads expolding everywhere

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:15:48pm

re: #300 Walter L. Newton

Great!

308 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:15:55pm

re: #275 SFGoth

Again missing my point. The fathers were never in their mothers' or kids' lives. I'm talking about the dad who splits 10 years into his "arranged" marriage (and isn't just floozing it up with some bimbette down the street).

Leaving a marriage of 10 years because of a lover or lifestyle is the same in my eyes regardless of what you leave it for. Having said that I'm glad there isn't as much pressure for homosexuals to "live a lie" in order to fit into society. That is asking for a disaster down the road for everyone attached to the relationship.

It is a very tough issue made all the more difficult since the government has seen fit to subsidize marriage through the tax codes. I'd be shooting myself in the foot financially advocating we take the $ out of marriage no matter what the type (I get lots of deductions as a breeder), but it would take alot of the issues out of making what should be a personal belief a public policy issue.

309 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:16:02pm

And meanwhile, while we here have the luxury of arguing politics in perfect peace, the savages are busy committing mass murder in Iraq.

Six car bombings in four hours killed 48 people and wounded 81 in various Baghdad neighborhoods Wednesday, according to Iraq's Interior Ministry.

310 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:16:03pm

re: #195 HoosierHoops

Think I'll move to Montana
Become a dental floss tycoon

Didn't you mean to say a dental floss Robber Barron?

311 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:16:17pm

re: #301 kansas

Hey Amigos. It's about time for Sicko De Mayo.

Not funny IMHO.

312 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:16:29pm

re: #302 FurryOldGuyJeans

All I can think is that Social Conservatism is as social and conservative as the ideals expressed by the Taliban or radical Islam. It is all about power and control, apparently.

Yes, stoning women to death is a common practice among southern baptists, I hear.

313 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:16:48pm

re: #49 Raiderdan

Looks like another GOPer has bought the MSM and Obama's "framing" that the Republicans are the part of "NO."

Where exactly is any sort of real proposal from the GOP? How are we not the party of "no" at this point in time?

314 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:17:08pm

re: #199 redstateredneck

Mr. and Mrs. OR

Hey, he grew a soybean!

315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:17:19pm

re: #299 Occasional Reader

Really? You don't remember? Still makes me chuckle.

316 formercorpsman  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:17:27pm

re: #196 lawhawk

Thank you lawhawk. That has been a bone of contention of mine for quite a while.

I think the data shows it is not just social conservatives who don't support it, but many who have traditionally voted in the D column are not strongly supporting it either.

When that question was posed during the VP debate, although I don't recall Biden's words verbatim, it was identical. But this is a negative example often cited against the social end of the party, as if they are the only ones bigoted against it.

317 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:18:04pm

re: #261 cronus

Good point. Huntsman and Palin have a lot in common policy-wise. Both acknowledge AGW, both want to aggressively introduce CNG in lieu of importing more foreign oil, most importantly they both seem to take fiscal conservatism seriously.

Huntsman/Palin 2012? With Romney as Treasury Sec?

318 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:18:17pm

re: #311 Walter L. Newton

Not funny IMHO.

Humble and your opinion are two words I would not put together. : )

319 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:18:28pm

re: #296 tackle

Hey, when does Gladys Knight turn 72? As a black woman who's a Mormon, she could give atheists a run for their money!

Not until May 28, 2016. Alas.

However, she has been married four times. And, according to a line from that Gallup poll that I didn't quote, 30% of people would not vote for someone who had been married three times.

It's not quote as objectionable as being 72, but it's fairly close.

320 n2stox  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:18:34pm

re: #295 SFGoth

Would you rather party all the time, or rock and roll all day and party every night?

KISS>Eddie Murphy

321 cronus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:18:34pm

BBIAB

322 looking closely  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:18:35pm

re: #287 cliffster


The GOP lost so heavily for two reasons - Bush went basically AWOL publicly in his second term, and allowed the media, who hates him, step all over him and the GOP. And, John McCain ran the worst campaign ever run by any politician, and let the GOP get slammed unanswered the whole time.


Bush ran a "turn the other cheek" presidency, of rarely (if ever) answering his critics. He though that was taking the high-ground (and he's probably right about that), but as a matter of political pragmatism, it was a particularly bad tactic.

In a related way, as it dies off, the legacy media seems to be growing ever more partisan, and this has also had a negative impact, I think.

On McCain, while I wouldn't categorize his campaign as "the worst in American history", it certainly could have been better.

But its not fair to blame everything on McCain. The Senate flipped before McCain announced his candidacy, as one example.

323 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:18:55pm

re: #278 MrSilverDragon

Just as long as it's not "Party All the Time" by Eddie Murphy.

You bastard.

/banging head on desk to try to get it out get it out GET IT OUT

324 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:19:08pm

re: #296 tackle

Hey, when does Gladys Knight turn 72? As a black woman who's a Mormon, she could give atheists a run for their money!

Heh. Sister Knight has already improved the LDS music scene by leaps and bounds. Why not unleash her on the body politic?

325 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:19:23pm

re: #312 cliffster

Yes, stoning women to death is a common practice among southern baptists, I hear.

No stoning, but...

"The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in God's image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to his people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

326 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:19:26pm

re: #313 Sharmuta

Where exactly is any sort of real proposal from the GOP? How are we not the party of "no" at this point in time?

The GOP submitted their own budget earlier this year, despite the fact that there wasn't a chance in hell of it even getting read. It was all pretty and footnoted with the philosophies for the agenda they were proposing. I was watching CNN as they talked about how stupid it was for them to go through the motions of putting it all together, how it was actually kind of pathetic.

And then, one breath later, the Republicans are just the party of No.

327 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:19:47pm

g2g - Have a geat afternoon all.

328 ssn697  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:19:48pm

re: #42 doppelganglander

If a moderate can get 78% of the vote in UTAH, I strenuously doubt he (or any Republican with similar positions) is too moderate for the GOP at large. He sounds like a person to watch.

It has (sadly) reached the point where if the main branch of the Republican party boots you (like they did him today), that puts you in better standing with the populace.

The idea that I can't be in the Republican party, because I am a fiscal conservative, and not a social conservative, bodes nothing but ill for the Republicans.

Conversely, it means we will get Democratic spending shoved down our throats for years, with (likely) little that can be done, due to the swindling Republican numbers.

The social conservatives are (IMO) actively destroying America, by giving it to the Democrats on a platter.

329 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:20:23pm

re: #312 cliffster

I stand by what I said. Social Conservatism is neither, it is all about, as I see it, control and indoctrination of one narrowly defined religious dogma.

And strange that you bring up the Southern Baptist angle since I am a member.

330 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:20:28pm

re: #318 kansas

Humble and your opinion are two words I would not put together. : )

What ever, I'm not screaming at you or anything like that, just making my feelings known. Got it :)

331 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:20:42pm

re: #276 Last Mohican

Here is an interesting Gallup poll conducted in the early stages of the 2008 presidential election (February 9-11, 2007, to be exact). To select a few highlights...

5% of Americans said they would not vote for any Black candidate.
7% said they would not vote for any Jewish candidate.
11% said they would not vote for a woman.
24% said they would not vote for a Mormon.
42% said they would not vote for a 72-year-old.
53% said they would not vote for an atheist.


Wow....84% of the electorate has a religious test for President .... Unconstitutional bastards!

(yeah, I know it doesn't work that way).

332 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:20:47pm

re: #318 kansas

Humble and your opinion are two words I would not put together. : )

I didn't think it was funny, either.

Most recently, this thing killed an 18-month old toddler (from Mexico). Ha ha ha.

333 Liberal Classic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:21:02pm

re: #283 looking closely

Being WAY out of my field, I can't comment specifically on studies in atmospheric science other than to say that "the" experiment to determine the effect of CO2 on global climate effectively CANNOT be done. (IE we don't have an extra "control" earth lying around, nor any completely validated climate model to go by).

Modelling climate is unbelievably complex, and as one tiny example, there is good reason to believe that much of the data ostensibly measuring the surface temperature of the earth aren't "right". If we can't even accurately measure the temperature of the earth, then how can we draw any meaningful conclusions about the effect of mankind on climate?

We don't need to have an extra "control" earth lying around to test the hypothesis that an increase carbon dioxide can increase the greenhouse effect. CO2 gas has a high loss tangent at infrared wavelengths. CO2 and water vapor account for large majority of the greenhouse effect, with methane and ozone accounting for the smaller balance.

334 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:21:26pm

re: #323 Occasional Reader

You bastard.

/banging head on desk to try to get it out get it out GET IT OUT

I know. It's the one voice in my head I managed to get rid of.

335 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:21:29pm

re: #317 Russkilitlover

Huntsman/Palin 2012? With Romney as Treasury Sec?


I can't articulate quite why, but the bloom is off the Palin rose somewhat. I'm not saying I won't support her, but she's got to do better if she wants my vote.

336 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:21:52pm

re: #332 Occasional Reader

I didn't think it was funny, either.

Most recently, this thing killed an 18-month old toddler (from Mexico). Ha ha ha.

I take it back.

337 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:21:55pm

re: #223 Ojoe

But how can the GOP for instance talk about balancing the budget after Bush's deficits?

Plus, the GOP is seen as the party of "Big Business", which is viewed as the cause of many problems at the moment, and with some reason, seeing as big business has shipped many jobs overseas.

The GOP doesn't have to jump, it already has & it just hasn't hit the pavement yet.

* * * *
Jeez, Bush is GONE!
Bush had to fund the Department of Homeland Security and 2 WARS
Bush had to keep Dems happy & compromised by spending on Social Stuff Dems wanted.
Bush also had Republican porkbarrelers like ARLEN SPECTER, high ranking Appropriations Committee persons, pigging out.

Not ALL the GOP were porkbarrelers, but the GOP did support funding the WARS and the Department of Homeland Security.

338 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:22:31pm

re: #313 Sharmuta

Where exactly is any sort of real proposal from the GOP? How are we not the party of "no" at this point in time?

Being in knee-jerk opposition worked for O and the Dems. Why actually provide the American people with sound ideals and proposals when all the GOP should do is throw poop like petulant caged monkeys?

339 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:23:25pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

That's how they feel about it, that's their right. Nobody's trying to pass laws that the wife will submit to her husband's will. And besides, it's still completely inappropriate to compare that system of beliefs with that of the conservative segment of the RoP

340 Bloodnok  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:23:27pm

re: #267 NYC_Mike

Love the MSM spin here. Reeling? Who the hell is reeling? Most of the repubs I know are delighted. Most are saying "Good riddance to bad trash!"

Specter is a opportunistic doofus. He is and never was an effective legislator or statesman. He switched to the (R) for political expediency and he just defected to the (D) for the same reason.
Trust me - if in 6+ years he's still kicking and the political pendulum is back to the other side - I wouldn't put it past him to switch back again!

Honestly - he's of no help and never was. Goodbye. Good riddance!

While I agree with you about his lack of character, I can't help but remember the 107th and 108th congresses and the lack of "lets get rid of him" calls when he was needed to complete the R majority. I'm not defending him (I am outraged by his lack of fiscal sense in helping pass the Stimulous Bill), I am just saying there will always be center, or center-left Republicans.

The Republican Party should be examining the faults in its own foundation that led to a situation in which the votes of 3 or 4 RINOs (I hate that term, btw) are so important in the first place. If the party had its act together for the last two elections they would either have a majority or would be in a larger minority and Snowe/Specter/Collins votes would be safely neutralized. But their presence helped tip the majority to the Rs in the 107th and 108th. They serve a purpose. And we can't overlook good, fiscally conservative candidates who might be more centrist on some issues because we are afraid of the three I just mentioned.

341 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:24:08pm

re: #332 Occasional Reader

I didn't think it was funny, either.

Most recently, this thing killed an 18-month old toddler (from Mexico). Ha ha ha.

I thought the poor little one was 23 months? Still a baby, really.

342 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:24:09pm

re: #326 cliffster

A budget proposal. Great. What else?

343 looking closely  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:24:16pm

re: #313 Sharmuta

Where exactly is any sort of real proposal from the GOP? How are we not the party of "no" at this point in time?


Its true, but its a default position because the Republicans can't get their proposals out.

When the Dems and President "I won" Obama are rushing through legislation so fast that its literally impossible for any human being to read it before signing, there in only one appropriate response, and that's to say "no".

There was a Republican spending version. . .and the Dems and President weren't interested in talking about it or reaching any sort of compromise.

344 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:24:31pm

re: #338 FurryOldGuyJeans

Being in knee-jerk opposition worked for O and the Dems.

And they're still getting mileage out of it. Today Charles posted part of an interview with Nancy Pelosi, in which her main defense to the accusation that she was briefed about waterboarding was that Bush was an evil bastard.

345 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:25:10pm

re: #231 albusteve

that right there should spike the deal...it was an outrage and few across the mainstream even know...I hate the feds

* * * *
Democrats decide who gets to speak & testify now.
One party rule.

Elections have consequences, for all those beating up on the GOP.

346 looking closely  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:25:19pm

re: #328 ssn697


The idea that I can't be in the Republican party, because I am a fiscal conservative, and not a social conservative, bodes nothing but ill for the Republicans.


The premise is false.
Its a "big tent".
You can be a non-social conservative and be a Republican.

347 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:25:34pm

re: #338 FurryOldGuyJeans

Being in knee-jerk opposition worked for O and the Dems. Why actually provide the American people with sound ideals and proposals when all the GOP should do is throw poop like petulant caged monkeys?

They won because of Obama's charisma and because Bush made a mess of things. Not because of the brilliant ideas they espouse. Now, it's Obama's turn to make a mess, I just hope we can recover from it once the dems are tossed out (and, they will be eventually). What they offer the USA is not a sustainable course. All of this spending and government tinkering will come back and bite them in the ass, hard.

348 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:25:42pm

re: #338 FurryOldGuyJeans

Being in knee-jerk opposition worked for O and the Dems. Why actually provide the American people with sound ideals and proposals when all the GOP should do is throw poop like petulant caged monkeys?

That is an insult--especially to the non-caged and well-adjusted monkeys. Otherwise, you're spot on.

349 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:25:51pm

re: #309 Occasional Reader

Are the terrorists doing this because they smell a lack of commitment from Obama? Or are they doing it knowing they won't have any real military effect, but they want to be able to claim they drove the Americans out?

350 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:26:11pm

re: #341 Dianna

I thought the poor little one was 23 months? Still a baby, really.

22 months, according to this.

I cannot IMAGINE that kind of heartbreak, for a parent. (And hopefully, I'll never have to.)

351 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:26:19pm

re: #340 Bloodnok

While I agree with you about his lack of character, I can't help but remember the 107th and 108th congresses and the lack of "lets get rid of him" calls when he was needed to complete the R majority. I'm not defending him (I am outraged by his lack of fiscal sense in helping pass the Stimulous Bill), I am just saying there will always be center, or center-left Republicans.

The Republican Party should be examining the faults in its own foundation that led to a situation in which the votes of 3 or 4 RINOs (I hate that term, btw) are so important in the first place. If the party had its act together for the last two elections they would either have a majority or would be in a larger minority and Snowe/Specter/Collins votes would be safely neutralized. But their presence helped tip the majority to the Rs in the 107th and 108th. They serve a purpose. And we can't overlook good, fiscally conservative candidates who might be more centrist on some issues because we are afraid of the three I just mentioned.

I think the party should have room for civil disagreements over social issues, but when it comes to fiscal restraint, we should all be able to agree. If we can't agree on that one basic foundational aspect of conservatism, then what good are we?

352 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:26:22pm

re: #49 Raiderdan

When the Democrats lost in 2002 and 2004, you didn't hear the MSM saying the Dems were "too far to the left."

Nope.

Don't fall for it, Charles.

This game by the MSM is as old as the day is long.

In 2002 and 2004, I didn't hear the MSM saying that the Dems were too left wing, but that's because for the most part (Kerry aside) they weren't too left wing to win an election. We did hear the MSM saying the Dems were leaderless, inept, and childish and that much was true.

Anyway, fall for what? The GOP is genuinely too extreme if it is advocating equal time in science class for mythology. That's why the GOP is losing the AGW argument. If anything the MSM is doing us a favour by exposing the cranks and haters.

As for AGW, the Republican solution shouldn't be denial; it should be to go after nitrous oxide, methane, those silicon fluorides which microchip plants give off, and the nations China and India. Also, nuclear power.

353 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:26:28pm

re: #344 Last Mohican

And they're still getting mileage out of it. Today Charles posted part of an interview with Nancy Pelosi, in which her main defense to the accusation that she was briefed about waterboarding was that Bush was an evil bastard.

It was all of those Rovian mind control rays that caused her amnesia. /

354 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:26:52pm

re: #338 FurryOldGuyJeans

Being in knee-jerk opposition worked for O and the Dems. Why actually provide the American people with sound ideals and proposals when all the GOP should do is throw poop like petulant caged monkeys?

I stopped throwing poop a long time ago, thank you very much.

355 Big Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:26:52pm

Jon Huntsman has a bigger problem than being Mormon and moderate......his family fortune was made (gasp!) in the chemical business. In fact his father got his start in the egg carton business and then acquired the patent for the "clamshell" package. From there he integrated upstream into styrene manufacturing and then bought a whole slew of other chemcial businesses.

356 Dave the.....  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:26:55pm

Democrats tried to run on "we're not Bush" and it didn't work until 2008. Republicans need to come up with something. A vision if you will.

I am totally amazed at how Obama and the Democrats are still running against Bush. Look at what dominates the news. Eventually they will need a new villian to rally around.

357 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:27:12pm

re: #337 alegrias

Bush is the new political boogey-man, like what Nixon and then Reagan used to be before 2001. He will always be invoked for political alchemy until the new EVILLLLLLLLLLLL! non-Democrat/Republican comes forward that shows the vacuity of Socialism.

358 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:27:39pm

re: #342 Sharmuta

A budget proposal. Great. What else?

You asked for an example, that's an example. They have also been outspoken, and surprisingly united, around the stimulus package, about letting the tax cuts expire, etc. Thing is, "party of no" is so vague you can't argue with it. About what topics would you have them elaborate their disagreeable position, that they haven't?

359 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:27:47pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

I think the party should have room for civil disagreements over social issues, but when it comes to fiscal restraint, we should all be able to agree. If we can't agree on that one basic foundational aspect of conservatism, then what good are we?

If there's something people - historically, anyway - are not civil in their disagreements over, it's social issues.

360 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:27:59pm

re: #349 Kenneth

Are the terrorists doing this because they smell a lack of commitment from Obama? Or are they doing it knowing they won't have any real military effect, but they want to be able to claim they drove the Americans out?

My speculation would be: Both. (And, of course, because they're bloodthirsty savages who enjoy killing innocent people.)

361 Dave the.....  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:28:48pm

Sharmuta

I think the party should have room for civil disagreements over social issues, but when it comes to fiscal restraint, we should all be able to agree. If we can't agree on that one basic foundational aspect of conservatism, then what good are we?

Sharmuta and I can be on different sides of the social debate, but agree for the most part no the big issues.

I just want the gov't to leave me alone.

362 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:28:49pm

re: #173 eschew_obfuscation

In that last chart, isn't it interesting that CO2 levels rise and fall AFTER temperature rises and falls (respectively)?

That might have something to do with the way that our oceans, the largest CO2 sinks we have, react to temperature variations. Cooler temps cause more CO2 absorption and higher temps cause more release. Seems a little counter-intuitive at first, but chemistry can be that way sometimes.

I'm an AGW skeptic, in the sense that I doubt the alarmist view, but that is one possible explanation for those graphs. We don't know yet the effect of releasing this much CO2 into the atmosphere, nor for that matter, what an ideal level of CO2 in the atmosphere would be.

More study is needed.

363 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:09pm

re: #90 Dianna

Absolutely!

Dianna, turn didn't see a sarc tag on that. Maybe I took OR's "as long as it doesn't scare the horses" comment wrong.

364 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:18pm

re: #73 doppelganglander

I think it's almost impossible for an intelligent lay person to develop an informed opinion about AGW.

It's difficult, yes, but I really can't agree that it's "almost impossible." There are resources out there -- books, websites, etc. -- but you have to really dig into the subject matter and learn to recognize when you're being played for political purposes.

I see far too many conservatives, however, who are simply knee-jerk reacting to the issue without any real knowledge, or with knowledge that comes from highly biased and questionable sources -- for example, that kook James Inhofe.

I've said this before -- I believe that responsible environmentalism should be a core conservative value, but lobbyists and religious fanatics and ignorant kooks like Inhofe and Michele Bachmann are selling too many conservatives a bill of goods.

365 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:22pm

re: #291 Sharmuta

So why is Huntsman getting raked over the coals, but not Sarah?

Are you kidding me? Sarah wasn't raked over the coals? Over and over again? Primarily by her own GOP? They don't have to take issue with everything she does up in Alaska. They've already finished her off. She's not a threat anymore - due to her own fellow Republicans.

366 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:27pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

I think the party should have room for civil disagreements over social issues, but when it comes to fiscal restraint, we should all be able to agree. If we can't agree on that one basic foundational aspect of conservatism, then what good are we?

As good as avanti, who mouths off about "fiscal cons" in the same breath as "social cons"...

367 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:33pm

re: #354 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I stopped throwing poop a long time ago, thank you very much.

I think you stopped being petulant about the same time, didn't ya? ;)

368 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:38pm
“You can’t just say no. You can’t just obstruct or obfuscate..."


-The Dems would like to institute some form of national health care.
-The Dems would like to pass trillion dollar budgets leaving the country with annual deficits of trillions of dollars.
-The Dems ran on immediate withdrawal from Iraq.
-The Dems would like a much greater expansion of government control over businesses.
-The Dems want to spend billions on what are at this time unprofitable renewable resource development and against increases in domestic oil search and deveolpment.

So, I ask, which of these is Governor Jon Huntsman willing to say yes to?

369 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:39pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

I think the party should have room for civil disagreements over social issues, but when it comes to fiscal restraint, we should all be able to agree. If we can't agree on that one basic foundational aspect of conservatism, then what good are we?

maybe we can agree on fiscal restraint, but if it's not the numba 1 priority, it's all for nothing...putting gay marriage above fiscal policy is flat out stupid and ego centric...but they do and that's the point

370 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:42pm

re: #359 Dianna

If there's something people - historically, anyway - are not civil in their disagreements over, it's social issues.

I don't think it's the governments job to be dealing with social issues anyways. It's when the government got involved in trying to shape society that things started getting out of whack.

371 tackle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:54pm

re: #355 Big Steve

Jon Huntsman has a bigger problem than being Mormon and moderate......his family fortune was made (gasp!) in the chemical business. In fact his father got his start in the egg carton business and then acquired the patent for the "clamshell" package. From there he integrated upstream into styrene manufacturing and then bought a whole slew of other chemcial businesses.


Well, that's not all he's done. He built the Huntsman Cancer Institute and done countless things by way of humanitarian help. IIRC, he's had to close some of his chemical plants due to the economy.

372 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:29:57pm

re: #361 Dave the.....


I just want the gov't to leave me alone.

A platform for the ages!

373 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:30:15pm

re: #363 turn

Well maybe you didn't and it was intentional - oh heaven forbid!

374 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:30:29pm

re: #361 Dave the.....

Sharmuta

Sharmuta and I can be on different sides of the social debate, but agree for the most part no the big issues.

I just want the gov't to leave me alone.

fergitaboutit...not gonna happen

375 Dave the.....  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:31:12pm

Charles

I've said this before -- I believe that responsible environmentalism should be a core conservative value, but lobbyists and religious fanatics and ignorant kooks like Inhofe and Michele Bachmann are selling too many conservatives a bill of goods.

I'm a right winger who supports reasonable environmental legislation and am also a supporter of mass transit. I get violently kicked in the balls whenever I post something on this,.

376 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:31:26pm

re: #357 FurryOldGuyJeans

Bush is the new political boogey-man, like what Nixon and then Reagan used to be before 2001. He will always be invoked for political alchemy until the new EVILLLLLLLLLLLL! non-Democrat/Republican comes forward that shows the vacuity of Socialism.

I don't remember Reagan ever being a boogey-man. Sure people hated him, but among Republicans, he's been a hero then, now, and forever. Bush, on the other hand, was a hero when he was kicking ass, then he became a boogey-man when he forgot to set his alarm in 2005 and apparently never woke up until Obama kicked him out of bed.

377 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:31:30pm

re: #354 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I stopped throwing poop a long time ago, thank you very much.

Yes, but your current method of mailing it is hardly an improvement.

378 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:13pm

re: #375 Dave the.....

violently kicked in the balls

There's another way?

379 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:18pm

re: #365 Russkilitlover

Are you kidding me? Sarah wasn't raked over the coals? Over and over again? Primarily by her own GOP? They don't have to take issue with everything she does up in Alaska. They've already finished her off. She's not a threat anymore - due to her own fellow Republicans.

Sorry- who has cancelled speaking gigs for Sarah because of her signing same sex marriage benefits into law in Alaska? The GOP loves her.

380 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:20pm

re: #359 Dianna

If there's something people - historically, anyway - are not civil in their disagreements over, it's social issues.

Religion and politics, two of the most contentious issues throughout recorded history.

381 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:20pm

re: #377 Occasional Reader

Yes, but your current method of mailing it is hardly an improvement.

UPS - What brown can do...

382 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:24pm

re: #375 Dave the.....

Charles


I'm a right winger who supports reasonable environmental legislation and am also a supporter of mass transit. I get violently kicked in the balls whenever I post something on this,.

Dave is being reasonable again! Someone hold him down and I'll kick him in the balls! //

383 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:32pm

re: #368 solomonpanting

-The Dems would like to institute some form of national health care.
-The Dems would like to pass trillion dollar budgets leaving the country with annual deficits of trillions of dollars.
-The Dems ran on immediate withdrawal from Iraq.
-The Dems would like a much greater expansion of government control over businesses.
-The Dems want to spend billions on what are at this time unprofitable renewable resource development and against increases in domestic oil search and deveolpment.

So, I ask, which of these is Governor Jon Huntsman willing to say yes to?

Right, because if he does not agree with this nonsense, he is being Obstructionist and negative! The Party of NO!

384 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:37pm

Obama speech writers are recycling Broadways tunes again,

"We've begun to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off..."

385 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:41pm

re: #375 Dave the.....

and am also a supporter of mass transit

Do you believe in the Doctrine of Trans-Subwaystation?

386 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:43pm

Too bad FOX is airing the ego-stroking conference here on the West Coast at 5pm. It's still not being aired on the East Coast, right?

387 Big Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:49pm

re: #371 tackle

Well, that's not all he's done. He built the Huntsman Cancer Institute and done countless things by way of humanitarian help. IIRC, he's had to close some of his chemical plants due to the economy.

John Huntsman Sr has had a bout with cancer and he has become a huge cancer research philanthropist. He is personally trying to sell Huntsman chemical and had a buyer a year ago but it famously flamed and enriched a bunch of lawyers to get it straightened out. Had the deal gone through he was planning to give billions to cancer research. As it now stands, Huntsman is still a publically traded company of which the Huntsman family is the majority owner.

388 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:52pm

re: #363 turn

Dianna, turn didn't see a sarc tag on that. Maybe I took OR's "as long as it doesn't scare the horses" comment wrong.

It's a variation on a very famous quote from a Victorian/Edwardian actress:

"I don't give a damn what people do, so long as they don't do it in the streets and frighten the horses."

389 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:55pm

re: #371 tackle

Well, that's not all he's done. He built the Huntsman Cancer Institute and done countless things by way of humanitarian help. IIRC, he's had to close some of his chemical plants due to the economy.

And one of his BIGGEST supporters is GLENN BECK. He has Huntsman on his show at least once a year, mainly to talk about his cancer institute and his opinions on politics.

I don't know if this means anything, I guess it's just something to file away for future reference.

390 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:32:55pm

re: #362 CyanSnowHawk

I would certainly agree with that .... more study.

391 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:33:36pm

re: #370 Sharmuta

I don't think it's the governments job to be dealing with social issues anyways. It's when the government got involved in trying to shape society that things started getting out of whack.

The South felt the same way about that whole slavery bugaboo, too. You're touching on an issue that goes back to the formation of the country.

392 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:33:48pm

re: #375 Dave the.....

Mass transit- one of those pesky areas on which Dave and I agree.

393 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:33:54pm

re: #385 Occasional Reader

Do you believe in the Doctrine of Trans-Subwaystation?

Those Trannies should use the regular subway like everyone else!

394 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:34:23pm

OT - (but important)

WHO raises pandemic flu alert level to phase 5

GENEVA – The World Health Organization has raised its pandemic alert for swine flu to the second highest level, meaning that it believes a global outbreak of the disease is imminent.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

395 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:34:33pm

re: #388 Dianna

It's a variation on a very famous quote from a Victorian/Edwardian actress:

"I don't give a damn what people do, so long as they don't do it in the streets and frighten the horses."

Thank goodness someone understands me.

396 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:35:11pm

re: #370 Sharmuta

I don't think it's the governments job to be dealing with social issues anyways. It's when the government got involved in trying to shape society that things started getting out of whack.

Oh, certainly not, to your first sentence (that's a big part of my world); and Oh, yes, that's pretty accurate, to your second sentence.

397 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:35:13pm

re: #388 Dianna

It's a variation on a very famous quote from a Victorian/Edwardian actress:

"I don't give a damn what people do, so long as they don't do it in the streets and frighten the horses."

Oh, no wonder I didn't get it. My mind must be in the gutter. Sorry!

398 Thom  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:35:22pm
I don't think it's the governments {sic} job to be dealing with social issues anyways {sic}.

Government, by definition, deals with social issues.

399 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:35:23pm

re: #375 Dave the.....

Charles

I'm a right winger who supports reasonable environmental legislation and am also a supporter of mass transit. I get violently kicked in the balls whenever I post something on this,.

Mass transit only works when it's the least painful transportation option available.

400 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:35:30pm

re: #376 cliffster

I don't remember Reagan ever being a boogey-man. Sure people hated him, but among Republicans, he's been a hero then, now, and forever. Bush, on the other hand, was a hero when he was kicking ass, then he became a boogey-man when he forgot to set his alarm in 2005 and apparently never woke up until Obama kicked him out of bed.

Among a lot on the left I have dealt with over the years Reagan was nearly as reviled as Nixon. Bush 43 surpassed both for the simple reason he tried to cater to both the Left and Right with his Compassionate Conservatism that was just dressed up FDR Socialism.

401 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:35:30pm

re: #395 Occasional Reader

Thank goodness someone understands me.

Are you sure about that?!

402 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:36:24pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

OT - (but important)

WHO raises pandemic flu alert level to phase 5

GENEVA – The World Health Organization has raised its pandemic alert for swine flu to the second highest level, meaning that it believes a global outbreak of the disease is imminent.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

OK, but what is the potential for this to be as lethal as the 1917 outbreak?

403 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:36:39pm

re: #271 Desert Dog

The left is not offering solutions other than taking over entire industries and running up breathtaking debt. First the Banks, then the automobiles....next up....health care. I think the Republicans will have all sorts of economic ammunition to fire at Obama's "Europeanization" of the USA. Obama will be the best thing that ever happened to the Republicans, just like Bush was to the Dems. The Republicans are in the wilderness now, but it is not a permanent exile. If you think it is, you writing off about 50% of this country.

* * * *
Exactly, thank you.

The unspoken assumption is a ROSY ASSUMPTION that Pres. Obama and the Dems' plans are all going to work fabulously.

That's how it's supposed to work in classic Command Economies that worked out so well. NOT

Yes, all can say it's all gonna work out.

The proof will change people's minds.

404 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:37:18pm

re: #401 Dianna

Are you sure about that?!

Hey, I didn't say it was you!

(Maybe some combination of my wife, my mom, and my best friend from kindergarten?)

405 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:37:22pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

Sorry- who has cancelled speaking gigs for Sarah because of her signing same sex marriage benefits into law in Alaska? The GOP loves her.

I have talked to a few people here in the South Sound (south of Seattle) are of Washington State that DESPISE everything she stands for and what she is. And most of those are self-styled Republican women, including my mother.

406 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:37:46pm

Just got in and haven't read the other comments, but it struck me that Huntsman, who was just mentioned by me last night (in the thread where someone asked if he should read Beck's Christmas Sweater book) is a hero of Beck's. He considers him "a role model, an inspiration, and a friend." He's talking about his role as founder of the Huntsman Cancer Institute and Hospital.

I wish Beck paid more attention to Hunstman's brand of politics and used him as a role model there.

407 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:37:52pm
408 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:37:56pm

re: #389 Walter L. Newton Beck is an LDS convert. That probably gives him access to the Huntsman's over some other political pundits. I don't know that for sure but it probably doesn't hurt the relationship. I know if I had a radio show I'd be interested in interviewing Mormons who made it good. The Huntsmans, Gladys Knight, Mitt Romney, Orrin Hatch...

Harry Reed... not so much.

409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:38:10pm

re: #377 Occasional Reader

(psst...your talcum powder joke)

410 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:38:47pm

re: #392 Sharmuta

Mass transit- one of those pesky areas on which Dave and I agree.

I think that the 2 billion dollars Phoenix spent on light rail was not enough. It has reduced traffic so much. Now, instead of waiting in a traffic jam for 1.5 hours, I now wait in one for 1.49999999 hours. If we double the light rail lines here, my wait will go all the way down to 1.48 hours! Well worth the 4 billion they want to spend!

All kidding aside, the way you spend your transit dollars is what counts. Places like Phoenix have no business with a light rail system. We should have purchased 2000 electric buses and ran them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for no charge....it would have saved the tax payers of Maricopa county a considerable amount of money, AND it would have actually reduced traffic and air pollution.

411 Lightspeed  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:38:55pm

re: #333 Liberal Classic

We don't need to have an extra "control" earth lying around to test the hypothesis that an increase carbon dioxide can increase the greenhouse effect.

No, but all of this climate alarmism is based on computer models, an artificial simulation. Unfortunately, the computer models are based on imcomplete data, as it is impossible to take into account all factors that affect the climate. For example, if there were a series of large volcanic eruptions in the next few year, the amount of carbon spewed into the atmosphere would throw all of the models out of whack. Also, a simulation is only as good as the data you put into it. We can only measure a small fraction of the Earth's surface to determine surface temperatures. In fact, it was recently found that some of the sensors used to generate this data had been malfunctioning (read this somewhere, can't find link now). Garbage in, garbage out. We also don't really have a good gauge on the actual amount of CO2 present in the atmosphere, as we just can't gather data on such a large scale as yet.

I'm going to throw this out there again. This website has a LOT of great information that will make you question AGW. I am not a scientist, but the info on this site seems well researeched and cited. Judge for yourself.

412 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:38:55pm

re: #395 Occasional Reader

Thank goodness someone understands me.

So you are telling us you are gentle with the horses? //ducks and runs in a serpentine pattern...

413 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:39:04pm

re: #400 FurryOldGuyJeans

Among a lot on the left I have dealt with over the years Reagan was nearly as reviled as Nixon. Bush 43 surpassed both for the simple reason he tried to cater to both the Left and Right with his Compassionate Conservatism that was just dressed up FDR Socialism.

Yes, people on the left hated him. Which is fundamentally, mathematically necessary given how much people the right loved him. This is different, though, from the number of people on the right who are pretty irritated with Bush.

414 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:39:33pm

re: #402 calcajun

OK, but what is the potential for this to be as lethal as the 1917 outbreak?

I don't think we're about to go through 1917 again, but wasn't the outbreak in the 1950s pretty awful too?

415 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:39:39pm

re: #393 Desert Dog

Those Trannies should use the regular subway like everyone else!

Hell no. Give'em their own car--unless they look nice.//

416 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:39:43pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

Who? Hahahahahahahaha!

417 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:39:50pm

it is very annoying that algore proclaims that the debate over.
it is hardly over. algore wants to shut down debate abt. gw because it is his
money maker. 100 million and counting.

418 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:39:52pm

re: #409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(psst...your talcum powder joke)

Ah! Well, thanks.

Speaking for myself, I was TOTALLY freaked out by the anthrax attacks back in autumn 2001... perhaps that inspired that particular dark humor center of my brain.

419 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:39:53pm

re: #275 SFGoth

Again missing my point. The fathers were never in their mothers' or kids' lives. I'm talking about the dad who splits 10 years into his "arranged" marriage (and isn't just floozing it up with some bimbette down the street).

* * * *
Sorry, you're right. Now with surrogacy and in vitro fertilizations, gay couples can pay other gay couples to have children for them. They work out who donates which gametes to the embryo, and draw up documents if they do it above board, and off they go to the IVF clinics.

A neighbor I served with on a board did this.

420 Big Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:40:20pm

re: #406 Silvergirl

Just got in and haven't read the other comments, but it struck me that Huntsman, who was just mentioned by me last night (in the thread where someone asked if he should read Beck's Christmas Sweater book) is a hero of Beck's. He considers him "a role model, an inspiration, and a friend." He's talking about his role as founder of the Huntsman Cancer Institute and Hospital.

I wish Beck paid more attention to Hunstman's brand of politics and used him as a role model there.

Different Hunstman's.......the father John Huntsman is the one Beck admires. The son Jon Huntsman is the Gov of Utah and the subject of Charle's post.

421 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:40:28pm

re: #342 Sharmuta

A budget proposal. Great. What else?

They don't have any positions right now. That was Huntsman's point. He said "The Republican Party is going nowhere." But compromising with this Administration for a kinder, gentler socialism is not, IMO, a good plan.

422 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:40:43pm

re: #402 calcajun

OK, but what is the potential for this to be as lethal as the 1917 outbreak?

I suspect you were not asking me that question, right?

423 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:40:56pm

Could someone please explain to me why the Right should become more moderate when the Left just nominated the most radical, left-wing extremist for president?

I don't see the Left making any strides to be more moderate.

424 kansas  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:41:02pm

re: #402 calcajun

OK, but what is the potential for this to be as lethal as the 1917 outbreak?

Considering the state of modern medicine and public health wouldn't it be safe to say none?

425 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:41:16pm

re: #323 Occasional Reader

You bastard.

/banging head on desk to try to get it out get it out GET IT OUT

Have you succeeded yet? If not, try this.

And if that doesn't work, you can consider trying this. But as a doctor, I'm warning you, please be careful. This one is for serious emergencies only. For God's sake, bail out before 0:48 if you need to drive or operate any heavy machinery today. And move all of your furniture out of the way before you start the video, in case you start involuntarily twirling at high speed. This is strong medicine, and people's reactions can be hard to predict.

426 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:41:27pm

re: #391 calcajun

The South felt the same way about that whole slavery bugaboo, too. You're touching on an issue that goes back to the formation of the country.

I know it goes back to the Founding. But it's not government's role to shape society to be they way government wants it to be. As far as the slavery issue is concerned, well- there's a problem in that it violates the rights of other people, so I'm not going to give that aspect of your argument any credence.

427 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:41:42pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

I suspect you were not asking me that question, right?

the Oracle of the Newton

428 Kragar  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:41:46pm

FAA Memo: Feds Knew NYC Flyover Would Cause Panic

Federal officials knew that sending two fighter jets and a 747 from the presidential fleet to buzz ground zero and Lady Liberty might set off nightmarish fears of a 9/11 replay, but they still ordered the photo-op kept secret from the public.

In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD, the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out.

429 Chip Designer  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:42:06pm

One of the predictions of global warming is that the oceans themselves are getting warmer.

To test this hypothesis, we funded the Argo project. This involved putting 3325 temperature monitoring floats in all of the worlds oceans. These floats bob up and down over a range of thousands of feet, recording the ocean temperatures and salt concentrations. This data is then beamed back for analysis.

In the last four years since the network was complete, the data does not show any global increase in ocean temperature.

430 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:42:10pm

re: #410 Desert Dog The newer bus routes that the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority has put in place have been very popular. They have done a good job paying attention to where they put stops and connecting to the MARTA system downtown. It has made me a fan of mass transportation.

431 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:42:15pm

Intelligent design is wildly based on magical thinking and primitive assumptions based on supernatural beliefs.

Climate change is based on scientific data and peer reviewed studies.

Objecting to climate change science should not be based on faith or because of what we hear on talk radio. This objection should be based on science itself. Any objection to climate change would require a scientific study that has been peer reviewed.

Comparing intelligent design to climate change "belief" is a logical fallacy.

432 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:42:28pm

re: #410 Desert Dog

Sounds like Phoenix chose the same boneheads that are in charge of the light rail project here in Western WA. Originally was going to run from the Canadian border to the Columbia river border with Oregon. Now, after numerous Impact studies the new proposal is not not even link the two largest cities in the state (Seattle and Tacoma, about 35 or so miles) and yet cost nearly 5000% more than the original proposal. All with nary an inch of rail having been laid.

433 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:42:54pm

re: #423 loppyd

Could someone please explain to me why the Right should become more moderate when the Left just nominated the most radical, left-wing extremist for president?

I don't see the Left making any strides to be more moderate.

Er, because we are eating ourselves alive with radical stupidity, lack of critical thinking and trying to build a foundation based on myths and bad science.

434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:43:09pm

re: #423 loppyd

Cause things don't seem to be working out very well right now for us. I don't have an issue for bringing our own ideas out and fighting tooth and nail for them. IMO,problem is, right now, we're just sticking our fingers in our ears and saying..."no no no no no no no (no, we don't have a better idea) no no no no no."

Least, that's the way I see it.

435 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:43:12pm

re: #429 Chip Designer

To test this hypothesis, we funded the Argo project.

Thanks!

436 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:43:30pm

re: #21 Liberal Classic

I disagree. Human activity can change the atmosphere. Just as our release of chlorofluorocarbons affected the ozone layer, our release of carbon dioxide can affect the amount of energy absorbed by the atmosphere at infrared wavelengths.

anyone else interested in a "breath tax"?

437 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:43:42pm

re: #413 cliffster

Yes, people on the left hated him. Which is fundamentally, mathematically necessary given how much people the right loved him. This is different, though, from the number of people on the right who are pretty irritated with Bush.

Reagan was a Conservative, Bush was simply a Republican.

438 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:44:30pm

Just caught another sock puppet troll, who's been downdinging threads and comments under two usernames:

Cousin Yttrium
and
Underwear Underthere

Bye now, sockies!

439 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:44:43pm

re: #433 Walter L. Newton

Er, because we are eating ourselves alive with radical stupidity, lack of critical thinking and trying to build a foundation based on myths and bad science.

Riiight.

Bad science was a huge issue for the voters I encountered when I campaigned for McCain.

440 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:44:57pm

re: #424 kansas

Considering the state of modern medicine and public health wouldn't it be safe to say none?

I hope you're right. Then I think about the announcement that we weren't going to screen travellers, when even the Europeans were doing it, and I get a scary cold sensation in my stomach.

441 jetprop  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:45:21pm

re: #423 loppyd

Could someone please explain to me why the Right should become more moderate when the Left just nominated the most radical, left-wing extremist for president?

I don't see the Left making any strides to be more moderate.

I was wondering about that...We ran a moderate against 0bama and lost.

442 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:45:23pm

re: #384 Kenneth

Obama speech writers are recycling Broadways tunes again,

"We've begun to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off..."

Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-- Winston Churchill

443 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:45:43pm

re: #425 Last Mohican

Have you succeeded yet? If not, try this.

I actually heard them perform that live, back in the dim, dead days of the 80s. Really. (They were opening for... hmm. I don't recall whom they were opening for!)

444 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:45:44pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

You and anyone who has info. The number of deaths has not been confirmed. WHO is downplaying the numbers, especially out of Mexico. if it is passed via person-to-person, it would seemingly have a high contagion rate. I vaguely recall the outbreak in the 70's, but do not recall any fatalities from then.

I do know the Spanish Flu of 1917 started here and made its way around the world before it mutated in to the real killer. Has there been any suggestion that the same is possible with this strain?

445 Big Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:45:50pm

re: #438 Charles

Just caught another sock puppet troll, who's been downdinging threads and comment under two usernames:

Cousin Yttrium
and
Underwear Underthere

Bye now, sockies!

Survival of the fittest.......you stick out you die....the rest of us survive.

446 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:45:55pm

re: #410 Desert Dog

Yes- there are issues within the mass transit debate where people can disagree, but for the most part, I support it. A good transit system is good for the locality involved. I live in an area with a great transit system, but they still find ways to piss me off. They don't spend their money wisely, but how government spends its money is another issue.

447 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:03pm

re: #429 Chip Designer

One of the predictions of global warming is that the oceans themselves are getting warmer.

To test this hypothesis, we funded the Argo project. This involved putting 3325 temperature monitoring floats in all of the worlds oceans. These floats bob up and down over a range of thousands of feet, recording the ocean temperatures and salt concentrations. This data is then beamed back for analysis.

In the last four years since the network was complete, the data does not show any global increase in ocean temperature.

It actually went down, yes? Or was that a different study? The temperature was found to have gone down, and NASA scientists said "Well, harmma humma bluugh yeah, well, can't draw conclusionss... hudhmsipiasd

448 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:29pm

re: #411 Lightspeed

turn doesn't have faith in the accuracy of any of the climate models for many of those reasons, not to mention chaos and uncertainty in measurement. I'm in AGW skeptic camp obviously, in fact it's more likely IMO that we are going back into a cooling period.

449 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:31pm

re: #431 Gus 802


Comparing intelligent design to climate change "belief" is a logical fallacy.

I'm against fallacious thinking. Does this make me a bigot? /

450 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:42pm

re: #420 Big Steve

Different Hunstman's.......the father John Huntsman is the one Beck admires. The son Jon Huntsman is the Gov of Utah and the subject of Charle's post.

I stand corrected on that. He could still use some of the son's politics though.

451 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:48pm

re: #433 Walter L. Newton

Er, because we are eating ourselves alive with radical stupidity, lack of critical thinking and trying to build a foundation based on myths and bad science.

You forgot to add knee-jerk reactionism, racism, and some of the baser elements of human nature.

452 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:48pm

re: #434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Cause things don't seem to be working out very well right now for us. I don't have an issue for bringing our own ideas out and fighting tooth and nail for them. IMO,problem is, right now, we're just sticking our fingers in our ears and saying..."no no no no no no no (no, we don't have a better idea) no no no no no."

Least, that's the way I see it.

We had a horrible candidate. Who was the moderate maverick.

The Republicans who lost their seats in traditionally Republican races were defeated by conservative leaning democrats.

453 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:54pm

re: #438 Charles

Just caught another sock puppet troll, who's been downdinging threads and comments under two usernames:

Cousin Yttrium

Great handle. Such a shame it had to be wasted on a sock.

454 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:46:56pm

re: #430 DaddyG

The newer bus routes that the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority has put in place have been very popular. They have done a good job paying attention to where they put stops and connecting to the MARTA system downtown. It has made me a fan of mass transportation.

Phoenix was zoned improperly. There is no centralized business district. It was allowed to sprawl for 75 miles in every direction. A light rail system looks cool and rides nice, but it is impractical for this place. Atlanta is much more compacted and you have actual destinations for a train to take you. Here in Phoenix, the only real destination for a train is the airport, but, of course, the train does not go there.

I am in full favor of intelligent mass transit planning....not the bells and whistle type we are enduring here. More buses, more local transit capabilities, that is great. Spending another couple billion on a train that doesn't go anywhere, no thank you,

455 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:47:22pm

re: #445 Big Steve

Survival of the fittest.......you stick out you die....the rest of us survive.

The tallest blade of grass is the first cut by the lawn mower.

456 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:47:39pm

re: #378 wrenchwench

There's another way?

Lovingly, but that's generally only found on fetish websites.

457 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:47:46pm

re: #436 Mr Spiffy

anyone else interested in a "breath tax"?

Start out with the fart tax. Easier to lobby for with the public. //

458 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:47:46pm

re: #369 albusteve

maybe we can agree on fiscal restraint, but if it's not the numba 1 priority, it's all for nothing...putting gay marriage above fiscal policy is flat out stupid and ego centric...but they do and that's the point

In California you'd be hard pressed to find any Socon Republicans. But now you can't even find any Fiscons. In California, there is no Republican party. They gave up the battle on increased taxes and jumped in the hot tub with Ahnold and the rest of the Dems. They stand for nothing anymore, except "Me Too."

459 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:47:53pm

re: #444 calcajun

You and anyone who has info. The number of deaths has not been confirmed. WHO is downplaying the numbers, especially out of Mexico. if it is passed via person-to-person, it would seemingly have a high contagion rate. I vaguely recall the outbreak in the 70's, but do not recall any fatalities from then.

I do know the Spanish Flu of 1917 started here and made its way around the world before it mutated in to the real killer. Has there been any suggestion that the same is possible with this strain?

Calcajun, I was just linking to the article. I have absolutely no understanding of the finer points of this flu situation.

Someone else will have to jump in with a possible answer for you.

460 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:48:02pm

re: #384 Kenneth

Obama speech writers are recycling Broadways tunes again,

"We've begun to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off..."

I couldn't get your link to work. Is it the song from Swing Time?

461 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:48:12pm

re: #444 calcajun

You and anyone who has info. The number of deaths has not been confirmed. WHO is downplaying the numbers, especially out of Mexico. if it is passed via person-to-person, it would seemingly have a high contagion rate. I vaguely recall the outbreak in the 70's, but do not recall any fatalities from then.

I do know the Spanish Flu of 1917 started here and made its way around the world before it mutated in to the real killer. Has there been any suggestion that the same is possible with this strain?

Part of the deadliness of the 1917 Pandemic was the massive willy-nilly transportation of literally thousands of people around the globe. Fighting WWI was much to blame for the spread since governments were more interested in victory against the enemy than public health concerns over all.

462 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:48:23pm

re: #423 loppyd

Could someone please explain to me why the Right should become more moderate when the Left just nominated the most radical, left-wing extremist for president?

I don't see the Left making any strides to be more moderate.

By all means let's air those "extreme" positions about building nuclear plants, fiscal sanity, and increased supply of private healthcare. Obama would hate to have to call those reasonable proposals "extreme".

But if you're going to parade through the streets with papier-mache puppets about how Obama is the Antichrist, boasting white-pride and/or demanding that the "Bones of Ymir" theory of origins be taught in school, then that gives ammunition to Obama to dismiss you as a clown.

463 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:48:55pm
464 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:48:57pm
Cousin Yttrium

I guess he fizzled out.

465 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:49:03pm

re: #428 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Krager, why was it so important to try and keep it secret anyway?

466 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:49:26pm

re: #459 Walter L. Newton

Thanks, though.

467 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:49:37pm

re: #443 Occasional Reader

I actually heard them perform that live, back in the dim, dead days of the 80s. Really. (They were opening for... hmm. I don't recall whom they were opening for!)

Cool! Did they play any other songs, or just play that one over and over again?

468 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:50:26pm

re: #447 cliffster

It actually went down, yes? Or was that a different study? The temperature was found to have gone down, and NASA scientists said "Well, harmma humma bluugh yeah, well, can't draw conclusionss... hudhmsipiasd

Doesn't help that NASA also had to backtrack on their declaration 1998 was the warmest year, ever.

Gee, bad data being pimped for a political agenda by a government agency. Who'da thunk it?

469 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:50:26pm

re: #451 calcajun

You forgot to add knee-jerk reactionism, racism, and some of the baser elements of human nature.

Works for me... all amend my state to...

Er, because we are eating ourselves alive with radical stupidity, lack of critical thinking, trying to build a foundation based on myths and bad science, knee-jerk reactionism, racism, and some of the baser elements of human nature. That's why the Republican party is going to continue to loose ground in any coming elections.

470 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:50:27pm

re: #423 loppyd

Could someone please explain to me why the Right should become more moderate when the Left just nominated the most radical, left-wing extremist for president?

I don't see the Left making any strides to be more moderate.

That sounds like "He did it first!" as a political philosophy. How about a sensible platform that reasonable conservatives can support and that might attract centrists and independents instead of a wild-eyed lurch to an extremist platform guaranteed to lose the next election?

471 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:50:28pm

re: #429 Chip Designer

heh, you must be in that pic. kewl

472 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:50:30pm

re: #432 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sounds like Phoenix chose the same boneheads that are in charge of the light rail project here in Western WA. Originally was going to run from the Canadian border to the Columbia river border with Oregon. Now, after numerous Impact studies the new proposal is not not even link the two largest cities in the state (Seattle and Tacoma, about 35 or so miles) and yet cost nearly 5000% more than the original proposal. All with nary an inch of rail having been laid.

I think a rail link between two cities is ok. Phoenix and Tucson, for example. They are about 130 mile apart and connected by a highly traveled and congested interstate. Places like the Chicago, Bay Area, New York, Boston, Washington, etc, etc....subways, El's, trains....that is a good idea. Places like Phoenix, which spreads 100 miles across and 100 miles up and down, a train is too pricey to meet the needs of the commuters.

473 Chip Designer  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:50:48pm

re: #447 cliffster

The official Argo blogs state that they see regional variations, but no change globally over the past 4 years.

They don't seem to discuss results, which might be due to a fear of funding cuts.

474 Big Steve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:50:50pm

re: #429 Chip Designer

One of the predictions of global warming is that the oceans themselves are getting warmer.

To test this hypothesis, we funded the Argo project. This involved putting 3325 temperature monitoring floats in all of the worlds oceans. These floats bob up and down over a range of thousands of feet, recording the ocean temperatures and salt concentrations. This data is then beamed back for analysis.

In the last four years since the network was complete, the data does not show any global increase in ocean temperature.

Is this published somewhere?

475 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:51:02pm

re: #462 Zimriel

By all means let's air those "extreme" positions about building nuclear plants, fiscal sanity, and increased supply of private healthcare. Obama would hate to have to call those reasonable proposals "extreme".

But if you're going to parade through the streets with papier-mache puppets about how Obama is the Antichrist, boasting white-pride and/or demanding that the "Bones of Ymir" theory of origins be taught in school, then that gives ammunition to Obama to dismiss you as a clown.

Boasting white pride? Yeah, I do that in my spare time.

476 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:51:29pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

Sorry- who has cancelled speaking gigs for Sarah because of her signing same sex marriage benefits into law in Alaska? The GOP loves her.

She may make money for them but they DO NOT love her. They finished her off. She has no chance of GOP support for higher office. No matter how much fundraising she does.

477 Kragar  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:51:56pm

re: #465 turn

Krager, why was it so important to try and keep it secret anyway?

I guess to keep people from seeing what a stupid idea it was till it was too late.

478 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:51:59pm

re: #302 FurryOldGuyJeans

All I can think is that Social Conservatism is as social and conservative as the ideals expressed by the Taliban or radical Islam. It is all about power and control, apparently.

* * * *
I guess I've missed those kind of GOP beheading & stoning people.

479 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:52:20pm

re: #444 calcajun

I vaguely recall the outbreak in the 70's, but do not recall any fatalities from then.

There was a single fatality (from the flu); an Army recruit at Fort Dix. And there never really was an "outbreak". The vaccine really did cause more damage than the virus in that particular instance (pace, Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey).

480 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:52:28pm

re: #470 Kenneth

That sounds like "He did it first!" as a political philosophy. How about a sensible platform that reasonable conservatives can support and that might attract centrists and independents instead of a wild-eyed lurch to an extremist platform guaranteed to lose the next election?

He did it first and he won.

He beat a moderate.

481 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:53:02pm

OT thank god for VMware

482 gregmw  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:53:45pm

For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone cares about gay marriage. It seems to me to be a cut and dry conservative issue - get the government out of the business of legislating people's private lives. If they want to get married, let them get married! Who cares?

483 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:53:50pm

re: #478 alegrias

* * * *
I guess I've missed those kind of GOP beheading & stoning people.

POWER and CONTROL is the agenda, nothing more. You going to misrepresent what I said some more since you missed a few talking points.

484 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:53:53pm

re: #476 Russkilitlover

She may make money for them but they DO NOT love her. They finished her off. She has no chance of GOP support for higher office. No matter how much fundraising she does.

I don't see that at all. I see republicans who think she's the bee's knees. They absolutely do love her.

485 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:53:56pm

re: #441 jetprop

I was wondering about that...We ran a moderate against 0bama and lost.

So lets run someone even more moderate next time!

Yeah, that's the ticket.

486 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:54:13pm

re: #479 Occasional Reader

There was a single fatality (from the flu); an Army recruit at Fort Dix. And there never really was an "outbreak".

Addendum:

... except among four or five hundred other soldiers at Fort Dix. All of whom recovered; "Case Zero" was the only fatality.

487 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:54:22pm

re: #423 loppyd

Could someone please explain to me why the Right should become more moderate when the Left just nominated the most radical, left-wing extremist for president?

I don't see the Left making any strides to be more moderate.

we had a moderate in mccain. he commanded no respect really from most people who voted for him. it was a very disheartening lack luster campaign. his reach across the aisle approach didn't seem to inspire voters at all.
when pres. bush reached across the aisle he got no respect for his efforts.
i think we have to ride out this shit storm of liberal lies and promises that will be
broken. people will wake up.
i say we go back to basics. not even look to the libs for ideas. if voters
want lib ideas they won't vote for conservatives.
we look foolish following the lead of leftists. it is a dead end for true conservative who value individual rights, small gov't, big military, and no apologies to the rest of the world.

488 Lightspeed  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:54:26pm

From antigreen.blogspot.com:

The Greenie message is entirely emotional and devoid of all logic. They say that polar ice will melt and cause a big sea-level rise. Yet 91% of the world's glacial ice is in Antarctica, where the average temperature is around minus 40 degrees Celsius. The melting point of ice is zero degrees. So for the ice to melt on any scale the Antarctic temperature would need to rise by around 40 degrees, which NOBODY is predicting. The median Greenie prediction is about 4 degrees. So where is the huge sea level rise going to come from? Mars? And the North polar area is mostly sea ice and melting sea ice does not raise the sea level at all. The whole Warmist scare defies the most basic physics.

489 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:54:28pm

re: #479 Occasional Reader

Ixnay on the adbay accinesvay.//

490 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:54:36pm

re: #454 Desert Dog

Phoenix was zoned improperly. There is no centralized business district. It was allowed to sprawl for 75 miles in every direction. A light rail system looks cool and rides nice, but it is impractical for this place. Atlanta is much more compacted and you have actual destinations for a train to take you. Here in Phoenix, the only real destination for a train is the airport, but, of course, the train does not go there.

I am in full favor of intelligent mass transit planning....not the bells and whistle type we are enduring here. More buses, more local transit capabilities, that is great. Spending another couple billion on a train that doesn't go anywhere, no thank you,

sounds a lot like Miami's MetroRail--Dadeland Mall (suburban) to Hialeiah Race track (extinct).
Missed the airport, the Orange Bowl, back in the day, cost enough to give everyone in Miami a Mercedes-Benz.Does travel past the arena where the Heat play, where the Hooters played and where the Panthers started

491 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:54:48pm

re: #472 Desert Dog

I think a rail link between two cities is ok. Phoenix and Tucson, for example. They are about 130 mile apart and connected by a highly traveled and congested interstate. Places like the Chicago, Bay Area, New York, Boston, Washington, etc, etc....subways, El's, trains....that is a good idea. Places like Phoenix, which spreads 100 miles across and 100 miles up and down, a train is too pricey to meet the needs of the commuters.

The Boston subway is great for the densely populated area. The commuter rail could work well for commuters into and out of the central area, if it had a decent schedule. (Why can't they schedule trains for people who get out of work at 6 instead of 4?)
But a lot of businesses are in the 128 and 495 belts, about 25 and 35 miles out. They're too spread out for anything efficient, even buses, which would take too long with all their stops.
I did like it when I could take the commuter rail, even if the commute was 90 minutes, because I could read or sleep. (I slept a lot; always woke up for my stop, and never dreamed of getting off at Willoughby.)

492 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:55:17pm

re: #482 gregmw

For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone cares about gay marriage. It seems to me to be a cut and dry conservative issue - get the government out of the business of legislating people's private lives. If they want to get married, let them get married! Who cares?

It's only an issue because it furthers one's religious dogma and agenda to oppose it.

493 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:55:35pm

re: #458 Russkilitlover

That reminds me, I have to start studying my sample ballot and surfing the web.

494 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:55:39pm

re: #476 Russkilitlover

She may make money for them but they DO NOT love her. They finished her off. She has no chance of GOP support for higher office. No matter how much fundraising she does.

She was rolled out too soon and was not ready for the onslaught. She needed more time to prepare for that role. She came across as a lightweight. And, as much as she energized the base (and she did that for certain), she also made McCain unelectable (even more than he already was). She might be a factor in the next election. But, rest assured the Dems will run her "Deer in the Headlights" interview with Katie Couric on a continuous loop.....

I wish more women would come to the forefront of the Republican party. A strong, intelligent woman would give Obama run for his money.

495 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:55:45pm

re: #467 Last Mohican

Cool! Did they play any other songs, or just play that one over and over again?

Did they even have any other songs?!

/sarc, I think

I honestly don't recall.

Ah, and I believe they were opening for Pat Benatar. I was not a big fan, but we got free tickets for some reason.

496 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:56:06pm

re: #487 nyc redneck

we had a moderate in mccain. he commanded no respect really from most people who voted for him. it was a very disheartening lack luster campaign. his reach across the aisle approach didn't seem to inspire voters at all.
when pres. bush reached across the aisle he got no respect for his efforts.
i think we have to ride out this shit storm of liberal lies and promises that will be
broken. people will wake up.
i say we go back to basics. not even look to the libs for ideas. if voters
want lib ideas they won't vote for conservatives.

we look foolish following the lead of leftists. it is a dead end for true conservative who value individual rights, small gov't, big military, and no apologies to the rest of the world.

Exactly. Why vote for the impostor when you can have the real deal.

497 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:56:31pm

re: #429 Chip Designer

One of the predictions of global warming is that the oceans themselves are getting warmer.

To test this hypothesis, we funded the Argo project.

This is what I think of when I think of Argo

498 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:56:41pm

re: #441 jetprop

I was wondering about that...We ran a moderate against 0bama and lost.

And when we ran Reagan, he had overwhelming support. One of our problems now is that we don't seem to have any Reagans waiting in the wings. If there were a leader like that who we could rally behind, a lot of these things we're bickering about now would not separate us politically as much as they are.

A lot of these things such as science education, gay rights, reports on x-wing extremism, legislating morality, the Party of No.... would not become unimportant, but would not be watershed issues for the party.

499 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:56:50pm

re: #487 nyc redneck

McCain wasn't even close to being moderate, he and Specter sure have a lot of similarities of political philosophy as I see it.

500 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:57:32pm

re: #424 kansas


re: #402 calcajun

OK, but what is the potential for this to be as lethal as the 1917 outbreak?

Considering the state of modern medicine and public health wouldn't it be safe to say none?

If this swine flu episode turns out to be as severe as past swine flu, avian flu and SARS scars, I'm afraid the only immunity to be built up would be by an increasing amount of people casting a jaundiced eye toward reports of future outbreaks.

501 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:57:44pm

re: #499 FurryOldGuyJeans

McCain wasn't even close to being moderate, he and Specter sure have a lot of similarities of political philosophy as I see it.

One word: Amnesty.

502 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:57:58pm

re: #482 gregmw

For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone cares about gay marriage. It seems to me to be a cut and dry conservative issue - get the government out of the business of legislating people's private lives. If they want to get married, let them get married! Who cares?

Marriage is an inherently religious notion. Most religions don't want to marry a man to a man or a woman to a woman. So, as a government, either don't allow gay marriage, or pull all references to "marriage" out of the books and just call it "domestic partnership" or whatever.

503 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:58:02pm

re: #469 Walter L. Newton

I have some ideas on what is driving the constituent parts of the GOP to eat one another. Please look at my post # 285 on the "We've Got mail Thread".

There's the valid fear and the irrational fear. The issue is that it's a lot easier to tap into the irrational fear and exploit it.

504 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:58:07pm

re: #497 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

This is what I think of when I think of Argo

'th hell?

505 ssn697  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:58:18pm

re: #346 looking closely

The premise is false.
Its a "big tent".
You can be a non-social conservative and be a Republican.

Did you not see the aftermath regarding this article? He was booted from a speaking engagement, and chastised by the RNC for his views.

If I saw "I don't care about what gays do. If they want civil unions, fine." I am immediately a pariah in the party. But I DON'T CARE. Leave the government out of my private life, and theirs. They don't care if I am married, why should I impose my will on them? Yet, that is exactly what is happening with the R's. Don't take the stance we tell you on every issue, and you are gone.

Third party, here I come...

506 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:58:37pm

re: #460 Silvergirl

Yup. He used it once before too, in his Inauguration speech:

Starting today, we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and begin again the work of remaking America.

His speech writer has a habit of lifting cliches form old show tunes.

I can't wait for him to start quoting Evita!

And as for fortune, and as for fame
I never invited them in
Though it seemed to the world they were all I desired

They are illusions
They are not the solutions they promised to be
The answer was here all the time
I love you and hope you love me

Don't cry for me America

Seems fitting.

507 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:59:08pm

re: #477 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I guess to keep people from seeing what a stupid idea it was till it was too late.

ha, I still don't understand it though other than to imagine they thought it would make it more likely someone (terrorists) would shoot it down. That doesn't make much sense, security would have been increased had they annouced it and then planned for it.

508 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:59:09pm

re: #498 eschew_obfuscation

And when we ran Reagan, he had overwhelming support. One of our problems now is that we don't seem to have any Reagans waiting in the wings. If there were a leader like that who we could rally behind, a lot of these things we're bickering about now would not separate us politically as much as they are.

A lot of these things such as science education, gay rights, reports on x-wing extremism, legislating morality, the Party of No.... would not become unimportant, but would not be watershed issues for the party.

And Reagan ran during a time when there really was a monolithic media pimping the approved bias. There was no alternative media like talk radio or the internet.

509 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:59:10pm

re: #494 Desert Dog

Remember--only Nixon could come back from the dead--politically speaking.

510 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:59:18pm

re: #474 Big Steve

Is this published somewhere?

Shhh... the science is settled. Don't ask difficult questions!

511 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:59:38pm

re: #502 cliffster

Marriage is an inherently religious notion. Most religions don't want to marry a man to a man or a woman to a woman. So, as a government, either don't allow gay marriage, or pull all references to "marriage" out of the books and just call it "domestic partnership" or whatever.

Although that still begs a lot of government-dabbling questions. Who's to say how many domestic partners a person can have? And do I, as someone who employs this person, have to extend benefits to all of these partners?

Just shows to go, the less the government does or regulates, the better.

512 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:59:39pm

re: #358 cliffster

You asked for an example, that's an example. They have also been outspoken, and surprisingly united, around the stimulus package, about letting the tax cuts expire, etc. Thing is, "party of no" is so vague you can't argue with it. About what topics would you have them elaborate their disagreeable position, that they haven't?

* * *
Thank you for this good answer.

513 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 1:59:46pm

re: #475 loppyd

Boasting white pride? Yeah, I do that in my spare time.

I didn't mean you specifically; but it's well documented here that the bloggers on the right who approve of the term "extreme" for themselves - they do that in their spare time.

514 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:04pm

re: #505 ssn697

Did you not see the aftermath regarding this article? He was booted from a speaking engagement, and chastised by the RNC for his views.

If I saw "I don't care about what gays do. If they want civil unions, fine." I am immediately a pariah in the party. But I DON'T CARE. Leave the government out of my private life, and theirs. They don't care if I am married, why should I impose my will on them? Yet, that is exactly what is happening with the R's. Don't take the stance we tell you on every issue, and you are gone.

Third party, here I come...

Funny, but the last time I checked every single state that has had a referendum question on gay marriage has passed a ban.

You need some bipartisan support for that to happen.

515 freedomplow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:21pm

The "party of no" mantra is a liberal talking point pushed by the media and now parroted by the Utah Governor.

His argument was perfectly fine without that "You can't just say no. You can't just obstruct or obfuscate," statement.

516 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:22pm

re: #501 loppyd

One word: Amnesty.

One Word; Bullshit. We got a Socialist Lite candidate campaigning against a Hard-Core Socialist.

517 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:39pm
518 Chip Designer  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:49pm

re: #474 Big Steve

I read the statement about no temperature increase on their blog here.

519 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:56pm

re: #513 Zimriel

I didn't mean you specifically; but it's well documented here that the bloggers on the right who approve of the term "extreme" for themselves - they do that in their spare time.

By whom? Kilgore? Pu-leeze.

520 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:00:59pm

re: #398 Thom

Government, by definition, deals with social issues.

Insofar as they're supposed to help society function, yes. Insofar as they're supposed to remake the populace in their vision of what they wished they ruled over, not so much.

521 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:01:19pm

re: #506 Kenneth

I can't wait for him to start quoting Evita!

Heh.

One odd thing about Eva Peron; for all her apparent self-regard, and her adoring admirers down to this day, her tomb in the Recoleta Cemetery in Buenos Aires is actually quite modest.

522 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:01:22pm
523 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:01:36pm

re: #485 loppyd

So lets run someone even more moderate next time!

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Are you sarcastically suggesting that we run an extreme moderate? ;~)

524 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:01:54pm

re: #516 FurryOldGuyJeans

One Word; Bullshit. We got a Socialist Lite candidate campaigning against a Hard-Core Socialist.

Right. Nobody was turned off by McCain's position on illegal immigration.

525 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:01:59pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

Insofar as they're supposed to help society function, yes. Insofar as they're supposed to remake the populace in their vision of what they wished they ruled over, not so much.

Silence, Comrade. Do you want to be branded as a counter-revolutionary?

526 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:01:59pm

re: #480 loppyd

He did it first and he won.

He beat a moderate.

By a slim margin. Wanna make it a landslide for Obama in 2012? Then nominate a Bobby Jindal or a Ron Paul.

527 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:02:20pm

re: #491 Kosh's Shadow

i(I slept a lot; always woke up for my stop, and never dreamed of getting off at Willoughby.)

Nice town Willoughby, heard that from Rod Serling hisself

528 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:02:41pm

re: #523 eschew_obfuscation

Are you sarcastically suggesting that we run an extreme moderate? ;~)

Extreme GOP make-over; The Series.//

529 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:02:47pm

re: #487 nyc redneck

..... i say we go back to basics. not even look to the libs for ideas. if voters want lib ideas they won't vote for conservatives.
we look foolish following the lead of leftists. it is a dead end for true conservative who value individual rights, small gov't, big military, and no apologies to the rest of the world.

That's the single most appalling subject that can really be exploited against the current 0 administration. Grab him by the balls, where it really hurts. There is a big potential in the American populace for pride in their own country. So using the examples of his frequent apologizing can rouse a lot of feelings i.e. vote for the conservative side.

530 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:02:50pm

re: #482 gregmw

For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone cares about gay marriage. It seems to me to be a cut and dry conservative issue - get the government out of the business of legislating people's private lives. If they want to get married, let them get married! Who cares?

Here you are asking the government to intervene by demanding a change in the definition. It would be like my wife asking for widow's compensation at this time. It doesn't fit the criteria.

531 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:02:59pm

re: #438 Charles

Just caught another sock puppet troll, who's been downdinging threads and comments under two usernames:

Cousin Yttrium
and
Underwear Underthere

Bye now, sockies!


They always come in pairs like that.

532 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:03:00pm

re: #504 Occasional Reader

'th hell?

You never watched Star Blazers? It was my favorite cartoon as a kid. Their battleship was called The Argo.

533 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:03:07pm

re: #499 FurryOldGuyJeans

McCain wasn't even close to being moderate, he and Specter sure have a lot of similarities of political philosophy as I see it.

he was too moderate to get elected. he appeared weak.
he could not galvanize conservatives. he was almost w/out a message.
he just wanted to get along. and not say the word 'hussein'.
(btw glad you're back).

534 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:03:09pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

Insofar as they're supposed to help society function, yes. Insofar as they're supposed to remake the populace in their vision of what they wished they ruled over, not so much.

I have always wondered where the "make America into the vision of what politicians want" clause is in the Constitution, or even the Declaration of Independence.

535 MJ  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:03:12pm

Huntsman is a member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
His politics aside, he doesn't have a chance with the Republican Party anyway given Romney's experience. He'd never make it through the primaries.

Right now, Mike Huckabee looks like a shoe-in given who seems to be running the party nowadays.

536 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:03:21pm

re: #527 Mr Spiffy

i(I slept a lot; always woke up for my stop, and never dreamed of getting off at Willoughby.)

Nice town Willoughby, heard that from Rod Serling hisself

Upding for getting the reference. I saw that episode for the first time when I was commuting on the train.

537 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:03:50pm

re: #526 Kenneth

By a slim margin. Wanna make it a landslide for Obama in 2012? Then nominate a Bobby Jindal or a Ron Paul.

I don't see Jindal as a contender.

You can't be serious about Ron Paul.

538 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:04:15pm

re: #532 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You never watched Star Blazers? It was my favorite cartoon as a kid. Their battleship was called The Argo.

I reluctantly admit that I was a bit old to be watching cartoons in 1979.

539 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:04:29pm

re: #531 CyanSnowHawk

They always come in pairs like that.

Darn them! Darn them all to heck!

540 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:04:33pm

re: #523 eschew_obfuscation

Are you sarcastically suggesting that we run an extreme moderate? ;~)

Actually, why don't we let Obama run unopposed?

541 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:04:39pm

re: #509 calcajun

Remember--only Nixon could come back from the dead--politically speaking.

Perhaps is head is frozen up in Scottsdale at ALCOR with Ted Williams and Walt Disney....just waiting for the right time to come back in? For now, we don't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore.

542 freedomplow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:04:57pm

re: #535 MJ

Mike Huckabee will never win.

543 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:05:01pm

re: #524 loppyd

Right. Nobody was turned off by McCain's position on illegal immigration.

His stance on illegal immigration was a tempest in a teapot compared to his policies on how the government should be run and what the agenda should be.

544 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:05:03pm

re: #537 loppyd

I don't see Jindal as a contender.

You can't be serious about Ron Paul.

Only as life insurance./

545 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:05:03pm

re: #532 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You never watched Star Blazers? It was my favorite cartoon as a kid. Their battleship was called The Argo.

Upding! I even bought the DVD set for that first season.

"Hurry, Argo! There are only 347 days left!"

546 Thom  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:05:09pm

loppyd - You're on a roll today!

547 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:05:20pm
548 Kragar  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:05:59pm

re: #532 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You never watched Star Blazers? It was my favorite cartoon as a kid. Their battleship was called The Argo.

That show was the bomb, along with G-Force

549 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:06:04pm

re: #543 FurryOldGuyJeans

His stance on illegal immigration was a tempest in a teapot compared to his policies on how the government should be run and what the agenda should be.

Such as?

550 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:06:29pm

re: #540 loppyd

Actually, why don't we let Obama run unopposed?

If the MSM is like they were during the campaign, he might as well.
/

551 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:06:31pm

re: #535 MJ

Huntsman is a member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
His politics aside, he doesn't have a chance with the Republican Party anyway given Romney's experience. He'd never make it through the primaries.

Right now, Mike Huckabee looks like a shoe-in given who seems to be running the party nowadays.

If he's the nomination, I will stop voting, head to the mountains and live in cave. They might as well just cancel the election and award it to Obama on a "forfeit"

552 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:06:34pm
553 haakondahl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:06:37pm
“Presumably he is testing the waters [for a presidential run] and we hope he realizes now the waters in Michigan will be hazardous to someone who endorses the homosexual activist political agenda,” said campaign director Gary Glenn."

Well, there's a gay name if I ever heard one.

554 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:06:50pm

re: #537 loppyd

I don't see Jindal as a contender.

You can't be serious about Ron Paul.

The way the GOP seems to be heading either looks more and more likely to possibly be the national candidate in 2012.

555 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:06:52pm

Here's a link to what I posted earlier.

WHO raises pandemic flu alert level to phase 5

From past experience, we also know that influenza may cause mild disease in affluent countries, but more severe disease, with higher mortality, in developing countries.

Why do they always refer to underdeveloped counties as developing countries? Most have been trying to develop for several hundred years...and still a long way to go.

556 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:01pm

re: #111 avanti

Hey, have a party, dinging me down is safe, fun and popular. :)

I told you to set a goal of staying under a thousand. :-) Last time I looked you were 80 or so over that. You're only 57 down now, so you're improving!

557 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:08pm

re: #546 Thom

loppyd - You're on a roll today!

Thom!

Long time.

Hope all is well with you.

558 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:16pm

re: #364 Charles

It's difficult, yes, but I really can't agree that it's "almost impossible." There are resources out there -- books, websites, etc. -- but you have to really dig into the subject matter and learn to recognize when you're being played for political purposes.

I see far too many conservatives, however, who are simply knee-jerk reacting to the issue without any real knowledge, or with knowledge that comes from highly biased and questionable sources -- for example, that kook James Inhofe.

I've said this before -- I believe that responsible environmentalism should be a core conservative value, but lobbyists and religious fanatics and ignorant kooks like Inhofe and Michele Bachmann are selling too many conservatives a bill of goods.

* * * *
Thank you Charles for reminding us Republicans have been at the forefront of conservation and parks. Teddy Roosevelt created the National Parks, Richard Nixon instituted the Environmental Protection Agency in 1971, and Republican presidents such as Reagan came from states that protected their environments before it was cool.

Responsible conservation and pro-active policies to protect the environment are good things.

If ONLY other countries would do the same. (Note the communist countries claim they can't meet pollution limits we adopted long ago or claim they aren't "developed" enough to meet them.)

559 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:30pm

re: #237 MacGregor

Interesting - I thought the decline in solar activity was recent and corresponded with a slight cooling. Do you have a link?

Disregard -- I looked up the graph I was thinking of and it was one of the ones where the idiot climate skeptics reversed the axis ... with now on the left instead of the right. The text below the graph also was referring to 85 yrs of the Maunder minimum, but not clearly, I'd link but no reason to spread the stupid...

/egg on face

560 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:31pm

re: #554 FurryOldGuyJeans

The way the GOP seems to be heading either looks more and more likely to possibly be the national candidate in 2012.

You need to get out more.

561 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:33pm
562 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:36pm

re: #552 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You're never too old for cartoons!

Good point.

"Too old to be watching cartoons involving orbital battleships", I should say.

563 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:47pm

re: #555 jorline

Here's a link to what I posted earlier.

WHO raises pandemic flu alert level to phase 5

Why do they always refer to underdeveloped counties as developing countries?

Because it sounds nicer than "shit holes".

564 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:48pm

re: #537 loppyd

Many in the GOP think Jindal is a rising star. I mentioned Ron Paul because he is somehow managing to get a lot of airtime on Fox News. As Charles has pointed out, he's being "mainstreamed" by people who think he's some kind of spokesman for conservatives. As far as I'm concerned Ron Paul is a lunatic racist Jew-hater and the kiss of death to the GOP.

565 Buck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:56pm

re: #303 Liberal Classic

If you already know the answers, why ask? I'll try to answer anyway.
{snip}
In the case of the atmosphere, the coefficient of this exponential decay has a direct relationship with the amount of carbon dioxide gas in the atmosphere. The more CO2, the more pronounced the exponential decay, and the more energy absorbed by the atmosphere before infrared radiation emitted by the earth escapes into space. Even a small increase in the exponential decay can have a large increase in the amount of heat trapped in the atmosphere over time.

{snip}

Great... except that the ice core records show exactly the opposite...

It is a great THEORY... but there is NO EVIDENCE anywhere that CO2, Man made or otherwise drives the climate. Only that Climate changes...and has for thousands of years, with and without humans and CO2 changes. It is a fact that carbon dioxide comprises only a very minuscule amount - just 0.054% of the Earth's atmosphere. Humans contribute to no more than 1% of that amount. The oceans (2/3rds of the planet surface) are a much bigger source of CO2 by far. So if the Sun (not something we can effect) warms the planet, and the oceans create water vapour, making up 95% of all greenhouse gases and the largest impact on the planet's temperature.

Now due to the very large mass of the world's oceans, it takes hundreds of years for global temperature changes to register in oceanic mass, which is why analysis of the Vostok Station and other ice cores shows that changes in the level of atmospheric carbon dioxide follow changes in global temperature by 800 years, and NOT the other way around.


I will not spend a lot of time detailing it here, but will refer you to Dr. Tim Ball (from my home town)... [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

AND a great documentary that I think will change most open minded peoples minds. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


Just to be clear, I believe in Climate change, just not human driven climate change.

566 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:07:56pm

re: #526 Kenneth

By a slim margin. Wanna make it a landslide for Obama in 2012? Then nominate a Bobby Jindal or a Ron Paul.

Kenneth, I like your writing.. a lot.... but don't you think that's a bit of hyperbole?

Or do you really believe that the Republican party will nominate one of those two in 2012?

567 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:08:15pm

re: #545 Zimriel

Upding! I even bought the DVD set for that first season.

"Hurry, Argo! There are only 347 days left!"

I got the 1st season DVD as well. Still need #2.

568 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:08:24pm

re: #538 Occasional Reader

I reluctantly admit that I was a bit old to be watching cartoons in 1979.

Saw that in the Army, space-spanning battleship. Looked stupid, bad anime, worse plots.
Not like today with... I'll get back to you

569 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:08:33pm

re: #563 calcajun

Because it sounds nicer than "shit holes".

lmao...shit holes, that has a nice ring to it!

570 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:08:47pm

re: #458 Russkilitlover

In California you'd be hard pressed to find any Socon Republicans. But now you can't even find any Fiscons. In California, there is no Republican party. They gave up the battle on increased taxes and jumped in the hot tub with Ahnold and the rest of the Dems. They stand for nothing anymore, except "Me Too."

* * * *
Is that because California's electorate went whole hog for spending?

571 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:09:30pm

re: #540 loppyd

Actually, why don't we let Obama run unopposed?

Run somebody from the lunatic wing of the GOP and we might as well let Obama run unopposed. Elections are won in the middle, not at the margins. If the GOP leaves the middle to Obama in 2012, he will take it in a landslide.

572 thatemailname  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:09:43pm

Right, Governor. Let's compromise on an $11 trillion national debt. Let's meet halfway and make it $5.5, nah, let's round it up to $6 trillion. Much better!

And what's the compromise on cap & trade, Governor? Make electricity prices "skyrocket" just halfway up the sky? "Bankrupt the coal industry" just a little?

Governor, someone once explained the difference between the Democratic and Republican parties this way, and you are the perfect example of it. They said that if the Democrats proposed to burn down the Library of Congress, the Republicans would counter with a proposal to phase the destruction in over 5 years.

Governor, if someone has a gun pointed at your head and is fixing to pull the trigger, there's no ground for a "compromise". The only rational solution is to stop the trigger from being pulled.

573 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:09:52pm

re: #564 Kenneth

Many in the GOP think Jindal is a rising star. I mentioned Ron Paul because he is somehow managing to get a lot of airtime on Fox News. As Charles has pointed out, he's being "mainstreamed" by people who think he's some kind of spokesman for conservatives. As far as I'm concerned Ron Paul is a lunatic racist Jew-hater and the kiss of death to the GOP.

And I think that is why the MFMSM is trotting him around as if he represents the GOP. They were part of Obama's campaign, and he still only got 51% of the vote; they want to make sure he does better next time.

574 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:09:57pm

re: #493 turn

That reminds me, I have to start studying my sample ballot and surfing the web.

Hate to sound like the dreaded party of no, but I voted no on all the propositions, each one is odious and a lie designed by the Dems and enthusiastically supported by the Reps.

Just one example:

You will find buried on page 13 of the Prop 1A description that it will add 2 more years to the income/sales/car taxes. An additional $16 Billion in taxes to the already hugemongous taxes just inflicted on us. The additional tax period is not in the ballot summary, even though the Howard Jarvis group sued for it to be in the summary, and there is no mention in their ads that it extends the taxes 2 more years.

575 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:10:14pm

re: #538 Occasional Reader

I reluctantly admit that I was a bit old to be watching cartoons in 1979.

I'm 46 and watch Sponge Bob and Avatar with my 8 year old every night....and, I love the Boomerang Channel.....Tom and Jerry, the old Bugs Bunny, etc.....great stuff

576 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:10:14pm
577 Tamron  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:10:32pm

re: #530 solomonpanting

Here you are asking the government to intervene by demanding a change in the definition. It would be like my wife asking for widow's compensation at this time. It doesn't fit the criteria.

You certainly have some of us HOPING your wife wouldn't be asking for widow's compensation at this time, pal!
.

578 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:10:32pm

re: #570 alegrias

* * * *
Is that because California's electorate went whole hog for spending?

Thus, swine flu!

579 thatemailname  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:10:47pm

re: #571 Kenneth

Run somebody from the lunatic wing of the GOP and we might as well let Obama run unopposed. Elections are won in the middle, not at the margins. If the GOP leaves the middle to Obama in 2012, he will take it in a landslide.

Yes, McCain was from the middle. He presented a very clear choice to the American people (sarcasm) and they came out in droves to support him.

580 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:10:47pm

re: #549 loppyd

Such as?

More governmental intrusion and expansion, only moderate in comparison to Obama.

But hey, let's keep gnawing on old soup so we can ignore the 2010 midterms and 2012. Why look forward with some hope and optimism when we can be just like the Dems were during the past administration. ;)

581 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:10:48pm

re: #555 jorline

Here's a link to what I posted earlier.

WHO raises pandemic flu alert level to phase 5


Why do they always refer to underdeveloped counties as developing countries? Most have been trying to develop for several hundred years...and still a long way to go.

Somewhat ironically, it was the lefties who came up with the term "third world" back in the fifties or sixties. Now, of course, considered terribly impolite, if not "racist". I agree that "developing" is a silly whitewash. A good acronym I've seen used is simply LDCs, for "less deveoped countries".

582 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:11:05pm

re: #564 Kenneth

Many in the GOP think Jindal is a rising star. I mentioned Ron Paul because he is somehow managing to get a lot of airtime on Fox News. As Charles has pointed out, he's being "mainstreamed" by people who think he's some kind of spokesman for conservatives. As far as I'm concerned Ron Paul is a lunatic racist Jew-hater and the kiss of death to the GOP.

And many in the GOP don't.

I think Ron Paul is a loon, but don't view him as the threat to the party that others do.

583 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:11:08pm
584 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:11:16pm

re: #562 Occasional Reader

Oh, then...there you go.

585 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:11:39pm

re: #565 Buck

... but there is NO EVIDENCE anywhere that CO2, Man made or otherwise drives the climate.

Duh whatever, look at Venus. Its atmosphere is 95% CO2, and it's like 37,000,000,000 degrees there.

586 MJ  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:12:27pm

re: #542 freedomplow

Mike Huckabee will never win.

He'd never win the Presidency but I wouldn't rule out the nomination if the party continues down the path it's headed. The voter in the primary is not the same voter as in the general election.

587 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:12:28pm

re: #585 cliffster

Duh whatever, look at Venus. Its atmosphere is 95% CO2, and it's like 37,000,000,000 degrees there.

Send Algore over there, it will start snowing in 10 minutes

588 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:12:41pm

re: #585 cliffster

Duh whatever, look at Venus. Its atmosphere is 95% CO2, and it's like 37,000,000,000 degrees there.

It's also covered in acid rain

589 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:12:49pm

re: #578 jorline

Thus, swine flu!

OH...forgot these. //

590 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:12:56pm

re: #581 Occasional Reader

Somewhat ironically, it was the lefties who came up with the term "third world" back in the fifties or sixties. Now, of course, considered terribly impolite, if not "racist". I agree that "developing" is a silly whitewash. A good acronym I've seen used is simply LDCs, for "less deveoped countries".

I prefer CRUD - Countries Really Underdeveloped.

591 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:07pm

re: #580 FurryOldGuyJeans

More governmental intrusion and expansion, only moderate in comparison to Obama.

But hey, let's keep gnawing on old soup so we can ignore the 2010 midterms and 2012. Why look forward with some hope and optimism when we can be just like the Dems were during the past administration. ;)

More government intrusion into what, pray tell?

Obama ran on the exactly that and HE WON!

592 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:09pm

re: #575 Desert Dog

I'm 46 and watch Sponge Bob and Avatar with my 8 year old every night....and, I love the Boomerang Channel.....Tom and Jerry, the old Bugs Bunny, etc.....great stuff

Don't forget the Jay Ward cartoons - Rocky and Bullwinkle, and George of the Jungle. Just got seasons 1-3 of Rocky and Bullwinkle on DVD. Still watching season 1, in which Bullwinkle tries to reproduce his grandmother's cake that makes great rocket fuel; the govt put him in charge of the Department of Guided Moosles.

593 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:10pm

re: #566 eschew_obfuscation

I don't see the party nominating Ron Paul, but I am appalled he gets any attention at all. More than a few people have pointed to Jindal as a contender, including Newt Gingrich.

594 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:14pm

I have to finish some things. Later.

595 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:26pm

Charles,

Thought you might find this interesting.

Regarding Joanne Voorhees. She's an ID hack:

HOUSE BILL No. 5005
July 17, 2003, Introduced by Reps. Hoogendyk, Moolenaar, Drolet, Voorhees, Vander Veen,
Bradstreet, Ehardt and Tabor and referred to the Committee on Education.
A bill to amend 1976 PA 451, entitled
"The revised school code,"
(MCL 380.1 to 380.1852) by adding section 1164.
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:
1 Sec. 1164. (1) The teaching in a public school science
2 class of the methodological naturalism hypothesis as an
3 explanation for the origin and diversity of life shall not
4 preclude also teaching the design hypothesis as an explanation
5 for the origin and diversity of life. A public school official
6 shall not censor or prohibit the teaching of the design
7 hypothesis.

8 (2) As used in this section:
9 (a) "Design hypothesis" means the theory that life and its
10 diversity result from a combination of chance, necessity, and
11 design.
2
00582'03 Final Page TAV
1 (b) "Methodological naturalism hypothesis" means the theory
2 that nature is all there is and that all phenomena, including
3 living systems, result only from chance and necessity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sponsors Jacob W Hoogendyk Jr. - (primary)
John Moolenaar, Leon Drolet, Joanne Voorhees, Barb Vander Veen, Ken Bradstreet, Stephen R Ehardt, Susan Tabor

Categories Education, curricula

Education; curricula; methodological naturalism hypothesis; provide that teaching of does not preclude also teaching design hypothesis. Amends 1976 PA 451 (MCL 380.1 - 380.1852) by adding sec. 1164.
Last Action: 07/17/2003 - referred to Committee on Education

596 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:48pm

Woot! I just got the new C. J. Cherryh novel, Conspirator!

597 Last Mohican  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:50pm

re: #495 Occasional Reader

Did they even have any other songs?!

I'm sure, at some point in history, Katrina and the Waves were sitting on their amps after a rehearsal, saying to each other "this new tune is perfect -- it's the one that's really going to break us! This is the one that will PROVE that we're not just a one-hit wonder. It'll show everyone that we're every bit as good as the Go-Go's, the Bangles... hell, we may be as big as MADONNA!"

Oh well.

598 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:53pm

re: #326 cliffster

The GOP submitted their own budget earlier this year, despite the fact that there wasn't a chance in hell of it even getting read. It was all pretty and footnoted with the philosophies for the agenda they were proposing. I was watching CNN as they talked about how stupid it was for them to go through the motions of putting it all together, how it was actually kind of pathetic.

And then, one breath later, the Republicans are just the party of No.

The produced a document that excoriated the Democrat's budget proposal. They never put forward a proposal of their own. Their document contained no tangible numbers at all. It was wall-to-wall criticism of their opponent's budget, and offered nothing to replace it with.

Like Huntsman, I'm not really interested in what the GOP is not going to do. I want to hear them elucidate what they are going to do.

599 Thom  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:13:57pm

581 Occasional Reader

I, for one, will never give up the phrase "third world shithole". NEVER.

600 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:00pm

re: #571 Kenneth

Run somebody from the lunatic wing of the GOP and we might as well let Obama run unopposed. Elections are won in the middle, not at the margins. If the GOP leaves the middle to Obama in 2012, he will take it in a landslide.

McCain was the "middle".

Obama was the FAR left.

I don't disagree with your statement in theory, but in 2008 that idea FAILED.

601 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:01pm

re: #504 Occasional Reader

'th hell?

Spaceship Yamato from StarBlazers. Was named Argo in the English dubbed version IIRC.

602 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:15pm

re: #585 cliffster

Duh whatever, look at Venus. Its atmosphere is 95% CO2, and it's like 37,000,000,000 degrees there.

There is also water vapor here in Earth that is driving a lot of the reported climate change, not just CO2. But then water vapor ain't sexy enough to forward a political agenda.

603 MJ  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:19pm

re: #595 Gus 802

Charles,

Thought you might find this interesting.

Regarding Joanne Voorhees. She's an ID hack:

Figures.

604 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:27pm

re: #573 Kosh's Shadow

And I think that is why the MFMSM is trotting him around as if he represents the GOP. They were part of Obama's campaign, and he still only got 51% of the vote; they want to make sure he does better next time.

Just like they were so fawning with McCain during the primaries.

605 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:45pm

re: #594 Occasional Reader

I have to finish some things. Later.

That's me, but without the period between things and later.

Silvergirl, procrastinating again

606 UberInfidel67  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:52pm

re: #575 Desert Dog

You're still allowed to watch cartoons. Afterall, "men" are just little boys with paychecks : )

607 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:14:55pm

re: #562 Occasional Reader

Good point.

"Too old to be watching cartoons involving orbital battleships", I should say.

Oh...I highly recommend "Futurama".

Gotta run!

608 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:15:00pm

re: #581 Occasional Reader

"less developed countries"

?

How about "modestly endowed"? Economically flaccid? Socially pendulous? Culturally shrivelled?

Naw. "shit holes" works for me.

609 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:15:05pm

re: #591 loppyd

More government intrusion into what, pray tell?

Obama ran on the exactly that and HE WON!

Obama ran on "I ain't Bush!"

610 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:15:15pm

re: #603 MJ

Figures.

re: #603 MJ

Figures.

I figured as much as well. Another believer in magic and astrology.

611 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:15:21pm

re: #565 Buck

The documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" is not credible, sorry. It's absolutely full of distortions and outright falsehoods.

Here's one site that documents the numerous misrepresentations and lies in the film:

[Link: www.durangobill.com...]

When I saw the movie I was somewhat taken in by it, too. But after seriously looking into the claims it makes, this is no better than a Michael Moore film. It's highly dishonest.

612 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:15:32pm

re: #585 cliffster

Duh whatever, look at Venus. Its atmosphere is 95% CO2, and it's like 37,000,000,000 degrees there.

It has no water to lock up the CO2. There was a positive feedback cycle; more heat, more CO2, more greenhouse effect.
On Earth, we have plants and other CO2 sinks.

613 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:15:59pm

re: #593 Kenneth

I don't see the party nominating Ron Paul, but I am appalled he gets any attention at all. More than a few people have pointed to Jindal as a contender, including Newt Gingrich.

I know what you're talking about. And, truthfully, my political-fu is not strong....hell I never thought the country would elect Bill Clinton, let alone twice, but I believe we're much more likely to get a Giulliani or Romney than Jundal or Paul.

614 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:16:04pm

re: #595 Gus 802

Charles,

Thought you might find this interesting.

Regarding Joanne Voorhees. She's an ID hack

I just about thought that of her when I read of her reaction.
Muchas gracias, compadre Gus 802 for the digging.

615 thatemailname  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:16:06pm

re: #554 FurryOldGuyJeans

The way the GOP seems to be heading either looks more and more likely to possibly be the national candidate in 2012.

Isn't it a bit far off to make any prediction? That said, I predict that Ron Paul will NOT be the Republican candidate in 2012. The Republicans viciously attacked Pat Buchanan several years ago (don't recall exact year offhand) to make sure he wouldn't get it, and the same would happen to Ron Paul if he looks like he has any chance. Not that that's a bad thing, at any rate.

616 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:16:12pm

re: #602 FurryOldGuyJeans

There is also water vapor here in Earth that is driving a lot of the reported climate change, not just CO2. But then water vapor ain't sexy enough to forward a political agenda.

That's true, and interesting, because the only by-product of hydrogen cars is water vapor. Let's fill up the highways with them!

617 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:16:13pm

re: #609 FurryOldGuyJeans

Obama ran on "I ain't Bush!"

So did McCain.

618 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:16:18pm

re: #441 jetprop

I was wondering about that...We ran a moderate against 0bama and lost.

* * * **
Except some here believe Gov. Sarah Palin was so "right" on Moderate McCain's ticket, she caused a stampede of rational people to vote for democrat Joe Biden.

619 kellino  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:16:27pm

I know the lefties think we're all a bunch of lizard drones, so I'll voice my dissent here:

I think this is utter nonsense.

By making the suggestion that the GOP is not offering solutions, he's not better than the President when he tried to dismiss opposition to stimulus as those who would rather us not do anything.

That's absolute nonsense. There's been many alternative plans presented many of them done so from the House or Senate floors.

The real problem the GOP has is communication. Most people are blissfully unware of any alternative GOP proposals, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

The GOP's problem is not that they have been trying to do nothing (all though in many cases this would be a better outcome). The GOP does have a very big communications problem and for every issue they MUST effectively communicate and demonstrate a clear contrast with how the GOP plan might be better.

Listen, from a technical perspective in many cases the country would be better off if we did nothing ( the pork-laden Stimulus bill). But this isn't the message that the GOP must communicate -- the GOP has been presenting alternatives but they have been very poorly communicated -- I only know about them from all the reading I do.

Present an alternative for everything -- even a free-market based health care progr and in doing so make the contrast with the Democratic plan clear enouugh that even MSNBC can't cloud and obscure.

620 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:16:31pm

re: #579 thatemailname

McCain had some negatives. He had successfully pissed off both the social and fiscal conservative factions of the GOP. He was old. And he was a Republican, when after 8 years of Bush, in a year the Democrats could have run a hamster and won. And he had the media against him. Yet, still he came close.

621 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:17:05pm

re: #612 Kosh's Shadow

It has no water to lock up the CO2. There was a positive feedback cycle; more heat, more CO2, more greenhouse effect.
On Earth, we have plants and other CO2 sinks.

There you go again, Kosh, spouting facts and proven science! ;)

622 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:17:11pm

re: #609 FurryOldGuyJeans

Obama ran on "I ain't Bush!"

Obama ran on, "It would be really cool if I were elected!"

623 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:17:31pm
624 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:17:34pm

re: #601 CyanSnowHawk

Spaceship Yamato from StarBlazers. Was named Argo in the English dubbed version IIRC.

And wasn't it supposed to be the Japanese WWII battleship Yamato, raised and rebuilt? (Haven't seen the show.)

625 Kragar  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:17:46pm

re: #601 CyanSnowHawk

Spaceship Yamato from StarBlazers. Was named Argo in the English dubbed version IIRC.

All I want is one tiny little wave motion cannon of my very own.

626 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:17:51pm

re: #622 cliffster

Obama ran on, "It would be really cool if I were elected!"

Obama ran on the "I am your Messiah" platform, no?

627 ironmike  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:18:15pm

Yes you can say no...to abortion...to same sex marriage..to Iran...to Russia. Does the GOP need a plan, and a main man? Yes, but abandoning your values (especially when it is easy and popular to do) and caving in to the left is not the way to do it.

628 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:18:16pm

re: #612 Kosh's Shadow

It has no water to lock up the CO2. There was a positive feedback cycle; more heat, more CO2, more greenhouse effect.
On Earth, we have plants and other CO2 sinks.

Gosh, thanks for the science lesson. ;)

629 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:18:18pm

re: #582 loppyd

And many in the GOP don't.

I think Ron Paul is a loon, but don't view him as the threat to the party that others do.

Well if you don't think a racist like Ron Paul is the kiss of death to the GOP ever getting elected, then that says it all right there.

630 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:18:32pm

re: #618 alegrias

* * * **
Except some here believe Gov. Sarah Palin was so "right" on Moderate McCain's ticket, she caused a stampede of rational people to vote for democrat Joe Biden.

McCain blew it when he voted for the bailout. He was breaking away and leading by double digits in some polls when he caved.

631 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:18:45pm

re: #552 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You're never too old for cartoons!

racist overtones!
dead white men
yourrrrrrr're desthpicible!
/

632 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:18:46pm

re: #581 Occasional Reader

Somewhat ironically, it was the lefties who came up with the term "third world" back in the fifties or sixties. Now, of course, considered terribly impolite, if not "racist". I agree that "developing" is a silly whitewash. A good acronym I've seen used is simply LDCs, for "less deveoped countries".

When I have used "Xenophobic Gang-ridden Shithole", I have found that the audience understanding goes up, but I still get in trouble.

/

633 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:18:53pm

re: #604 loppyd

Just like they were so fawning with McCain during the primaries.

They really manipulated the campaign and the election. They made shit up about McCain (having an affair?) and hid all the real dirt on Obama. The FEC should have fined them for illegal campaign contributions.

634 cronus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:19:04pm

re: #535 MJ

Huntsman is a member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
His politics aside, he doesn't have a chance with the Republican Party anyway given Romney's experience. He'd never make it through the primaries.

Right now, Mike Huckabee looks like a shoe-in given who seems to be running the party nowadays.

I don't think that's true. I think Romney stands a very good chance of being the nominee. Huckabee will not be the nominee. He has been exposed as a big government religious progressive with theocratic tendencies.

635 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:19:16pm

re: #617 loppyd

So did McCain.

McCain didn't run a campaign, he tried to run a popularity contest.

Well, I take that back, he was a not-so stealthy campaign worker for his opponent by being "Mr. Nice Guy".

No matter what, we are going to disagree on the issue.

636 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:19:39pm

re: #609 FurryOldGuyJeans

Obama ran on "I ain't Bush!"

He also ran on McCain is Bush and drove that McBush thing home thoroughly.

637 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:19:39pm

re: #606 UberInfidel67

You're still allowed to watch cartoons. Afterall, "men" are just little boys with paychecks : )

Please explain that to my wife.

638 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:19:54pm

re: #613 eschew_obfuscation

I know what you're talking about. And, truthfully, my political-fu is not strong....hell I never thought the country would elect Bill Clinton, let alone twice, but I believe we're much more likely to get a Giulliani or Romney than Jundal or Paul.

Romney or Giuliani, or both, would have been a better ticket for the GOP last year. Oh well. Live and learn. Hopefully.

639 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:19:55pm

re: #629 Kenneth

Well if you don't think a racist like Ron Paul is the kiss of death to the GOP ever getting elected, then that says it all right there.

If he had any credibility I would be worried.

640 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:19:56pm

re: #531 CyanSnowHawk

They always come in pairs like that.

Like boobs?

641 Liberal Classic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:20:17pm

re: #571 Kenneth

Run somebody from the lunatic wing of the GOP and we might as well let Obama run unopposed. Elections are won in the middle, not at the margins. If the GOP leaves the middle to Obama in 2012, he will take it in a landslide.

The Republicans have lost the battle of framing the debate, and have allowed the Democrats to define them.

Part of the problem as I see it is the public perception of the Republican party. The Democrats have successfully painted the Republican party as simultaneously having two extreme wings. As it suits the needs of the Dems, they can point to either the social conservatives or the fiscal conservatives as being the boogeyman.

642 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:20:22pm

re: #622 cliffster

Obama ran on, "It would be really cool if I were elected!"

I saw it more as a "I'm entitled to it!" or "Why haven't I been elected yet?"

643 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:20:46pm

re: #634 cronus

I don't think that's true. I think Romney stands a very good chance of being the nominee. Huckabee will not be the nominee. He has been exposed as a big government religious progressive with theocratic tendencies.

I agree- I think a strong fiscally minded republican will do well, despite any religious bigotry.

644 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:20:48pm

re: #641 Liberal Classic

Good point.

645 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:21:19pm

re: #639 loppyd

If he had any credibility I would be worried.

FNC is doing its damnedest to increase his credibility.

646 MJ  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:21:22pm

re: #615 thatemailname

Isn't it a bit far off to make any prediction? That said, I predict that Ron Paul will NOT be the Republican candidate in 2012. The Republicans viciously attacked Pat Buchanan several years ago (don't recall exact year offhand) to make sure he wouldn't get it, and the same would happen to Ron Paul if he looks like he has any chance. Not that that's a bad thing, at any rate.


They should have treated Pat Buchanan as they treated David Duke- expelled him from the party.

647 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:21:30pm

re: #621 FurryOldGuyJeans

There you go again, Kosh, spouting facts and proven science! ;)

And I'm still undecided on AGW. What I do think is we need to drastically reduce our dependency on oil; we're sending way too much money to people who use it against us. Nuclear power can be safe, and should be expanded.

I also get really annoyed with the environmental types who want "green" energy but won't let companies build wind or solar power systems.

648 rawmuse  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:21:32pm

re: #223 Ojoe


Plus, the GOP is seen as the party of "Big Business", which is viewed as the cause of many problems at the moment, and with some reason, seeing as big business has shipped many jobs overseas.

The shipping of jobs overseas is generally a reaction to tax and employment regulations in the USA. The USA has one of the highest corporate tax rates on the planet. Those get passed on to the consumer. The USA consumer generally chooses the lower cost item, which is lower cost because it is not produced in the USA. It is a vicious cycle.

649 beens21  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:21:37pm

on AGW , I am reading The Skeptical Environmentalist's Guide to Global Warming' by Bjorn Lomborg, a committed green guy and AGW believer. But, he claims the hysterics have taken over, the science is now dominated by politics ( he's been called a heretic by his peers), and that all reputable economic cost/benefit analyses of AGW reject the Kyoto and similar accords.The best and highest use of funds should be used to remedy malaria, AIDS,clean water,sewage and power to about half of the present inhabitants of the planet, rather than try to reduce temps by 0.7 degrees F by the year 2100, which is the net effect of the Kyoto accord prediction.

650 kellino  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:21:39pm

Also note Huntsman's inference that the GOP is "devoid of ideas".

that's beyond disingenous and it's infuriating.

Again, utter nonsense. The GOP has plenty of ideas that aren't being effectively communicated.

651 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:22:14pm

re: #638 Kenneth

Romney or Giuliani, or both, would have been a better ticket for the GOP last year. Oh well. Live and learn. Hopefully.

*Sigh* Fred Thompson.

652 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:22:21pm

re: #581 Occasional Reader

Somewhat ironically, it was the lefties who came up with the term "third world" back in the fifties or sixties. Now, of course, considered terribly impolite, if not "racist". I agree that "developing" is a silly whitewash. A good acronym I've seen used is simply LDCs, for "less deveoped countries".

Wait until Obama rules the world...all counties will be developed...because we will share and share alike.
//

653 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:22:25pm

re: #635 FurryOldGuyJeans

McCain didn't run a campaign, he tried to run a popularity contest.

Well, I take that back, he was a not-so stealthy campaign worker for his opponent by being "Mr. Nice Guy".

No matter what, we are going to disagree on the issue.

He sent more mixed messages than a cross-dressing schizophrenic on steriods. He was this, he was that...he was whatever you wanted him to be, just as long as you voted for him. Obama, on the other hand, ran on nothing and won. Hope and Change and warm tingly sensations up your leg

654 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:22:36pm

re: #585 cliffster

Duh whatever, look at Venus. Its atmosphere is 95% CO2, and it's like 37,000,000,000 degrees there.

Nitrogen breathing life forms don't inhabit Venus?

655 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:23:06pm

Instead of running around like chickens with no heads:
Realize the MSM will never let the GOP have a good candidate. Ever see Rudy on CNN?

656 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:23:10pm

re: #643 Sharmuta

I agree- I think a strong fiscally minded republican will do well, despite any religious bigotry.

In a better world perhaps. Though anyone fiscally minded will probably be looked on as a savior of sorts, it's a tough thing to overcome bigotry of any stripe.

657 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:23:15pm
658 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:23:28pm

re: #627 ironmike

The problem being that I care very little about the first two.

659 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:23:36pm

re: #635 FurryOldGuyJeans

McCain didn't run a campaign, he tried to run a popularity contest.

Well, I take that back, he was a not-so stealthy campaign worker for his opponent by being "Mr. Nice Guy".

No matter what, we are going to disagree on the issue.

We agree that part.

660 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:23:53pm

re: #639 loppyd

If he had any credibility I would be worried.

Ok, but that's the problem. Why is FoxNews giving the nut airtime like he has any credibility? Has Stephen Colbert taken over the editorial desk at Fox? Because it's starting to look like an unfunny satire of conservatism.

661 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:24:12pm

re: #616 cliffster

That's true, and interesting, because the only by-product of hydrogen cars is water vapor. Let's fill up the highways with them!

Right now, the source for hydrogen is natural gas. I haven't seen complete system studies, but I'd guess that is less efficient than using the gas directly, since it takes energy to extract the hydrogen, and the energy that could be obtained from burning the carbon is not used.

The National Academy of Engineering found, in 2003 I believe, the only economical way of making hydrogen from water is to use nuclear power.

662 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:24:22pm

re: #570 alegrias

* * * *
Is that because California's electorate went whole hog for spending?

The electorate? Not so much - the electorate is pretty pissed right now. The Gov and the Legislature wallowed in the trough. Where did the money go? What was it all spent on? Why are we in such a deficit? No one in Sacto knows or will tell.

663 solomonpanting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:24:52pm

re: #649 beens21

Didn't Lomborg estimate the cost to be in the tens of trillions of dollars for that .7 degree windfall?

664 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:24:58pm

re: #634 cronus

I don't think that's true. I think Romney stands a very good chance of being the nominee. Huckabee will not be the nominee. He has been exposed as a big government religious progressive with theocratic tendencies.

Right, Romney would be a great nominee and he would win by a very large margin. Christians in Oklahoma and Alabama are not going to vote for a Democrat just because the Republican doesn't quote scripture.

The only problem is that they did, and will, vote for a scripture-reading republican in the primaries over someone who isn't like them.

665 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:25:08pm

re: #595 Gus 802

Charles,

Thought you might find this interesting.

Regarding Joanne Voorhees. She's an ID hack:

Of course she is. The groups that are anti-gay, anti-science, and anti-choice, and vilify people like Jon Huntsman are always the same groups that are trying to sneak creationism into schools.

666 loppyd  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:25:39pm

re: #660 Kenneth

Ok, but that's the problem. Why is FoxNews giving the nut airtime like he has any credibility? Has Stephen Colbert taken over the editorial desk at Fox? Because it's starting to look like an unfunny satire of conservatism.

I can't speak for Fox. I rarely watch any form of news of TV.

667 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:26:00pm

re: #660 Kenneth

Ok, but that's the problem. Why is FoxNews giving the nut airtime like he has any credibility? Has Stephen Colbert taken over the editorial desk at Fox? Because it's starting to look like an unfunny satire of conservatism.

I think fox has become a parody of themselves. I don't trust them, and keep in mind Murdoch supported 0bama.

668 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:26:21pm

re: #483 FurryOldGuyJeans

POWER and CONTROL is the agenda, nothing more. You going to misrepresent what I said some more since you missed a few talking points.

* * *
Power and control motivates the radical left too, in case you missed it.

So now we have ACORN and Union thugs paid by taxpayers to agitate for the democrats, not my idea of "liberty" nor "freedom."

Are ACORN & Union thugs types really better citizens than Social Conservatives?

669 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:26:26pm

re: #662 Russkilitlover

Economy crashes, revenue goes down, spending goes up, deficit results.

670 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:26:45pm

re: #661 Kosh's Shadow

Right now, the source for hydrogen is natural gas. I haven't seen complete system studies, but I'd guess that is less efficient than using the gas directly, since it takes energy to extract the hydrogen, and the energy that could be obtained from burning the carbon is not used.

The National Academy of Engineering found, in 2003 I believe, the only economical way of making hydrogen from water is to use nuclear power.

"If I'm elected, there will be a Mr. Fusion on every DeLorean"

671 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:26:47pm

re: #649 beens21

on AGW , I am reading The Skeptical Environmentalist's Guide to Global Warming' by Bjorn Lomborg, a committed green guy and AGW believer. But, he claims the hysterics have taken over, the science is now dominated by politics ( he's been called a heretic by his peers), and that all reputable economic cost/benefit analyses of AGW reject the Kyoto and similar accords.The best and highest use of funds should be used to remedy malaria, AIDS,clean water,sewage and power to about half of the present inhabitants of the planet, rather than try to reduce temps by 0.7 degrees F by the year 2100, which is the net effect of the Kyoto accord prediction.

Sounds like a rational person.

Kyoto was never about reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It's merely a way for underdeveloped countries to 'tax' developed (prosperous) countries. It just shifts money around the planet and does nothing to reduce emissions as proven in Europe .... lots of changes, increased emissions.

672 Liberal Classic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:26:49pm

re: #565 Buck

It is a great THEORY... but there is NO EVIDENCE anywhere that CO2, Man made or otherwise drives the climate.

Carbon dioxide is a strong greenhouse gas.

Consider this: The atmosphere on Mars is 95% carbon dioxide. Despite the fact that Mars is another 50 million kilometers farther out and the atmospheric density of Mars is 1/100 that of earth, the surface temperature of Mars at the equator occasionally exceeds the freezing point of water.

In my opinion, greenhouse-effect skepticism has a lot in common with evolution skepticism.

673 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:26:54pm

re: #624 Kosh's Shadow

And wasn't it supposed to be the Japanese WWII battleship Yamato, raised and rebuilt? (Haven't seen the show.)

Yes IIRC. I never watched it, but a couple friends did and I would hear about it occasionally.

674 jwb7605  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:27:32pm

re: #650 kellino

Also note Huntsman's inference that the GOP is "devoid of ideas".

that's beyond disingenous and it's infuriating.

Again, utter nonsense. The GOP has plenty of ideas that aren't being effectively communicated being suppressed.

The way I view it.

675 brookly red  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:27:43pm

re: #669 Kenneth

Economy crashes, revenue goes down, spending goes up, deficit results.

/sounds like today's headlines

676 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:28:07pm
677 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:28:19pm

I like what this Huntsman guy is saying. He understands the reality - the further the GOP goes whacky with religious/political issues - the further out in the wilderness the GOP will go.

679 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:28:31pm

re: #675 brookly red

/sounds like today's headlines

FTFY

680 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:28:33pm

re: #669 Kenneth

Economy crashes, revenue goes down, spending goes up, deficit results.

You forget the inflation and then the stagflation that will sets in as well. This is the future our dear Leader has set for us. The Republican better be ready to pounce on that once it comes to fruition.

681 summergurl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:29:00pm

re: #643 Sharmuta

I agree- I think a strong fiscally minded republican will do well, despite any religious bigotry.

I am fiscally conservative yet socially moderate. However, I would vote for a social conservative if they were fiscally conservative. When it becomes a dollar and cents sense issue, you go where the dollars go.

682 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:29:11pm

re: #600 TheMatrix31

McCain was the "middle".

Obama was the FAR left.

I don't disagree with your statement in theory, but in 2008 that idea FAILED.

It failed because of the candidates involved, not because of their positions. McCain actually did quite well, given the uphill battle he faced as the successor to an extremely unpopular President. If he possessed more charisma, and if he had managed his campaign more effectively, there's a good chance he would have won.

Bringing more moderates under his wing wouldn't have hurt, either. A lot of those in the middle (they're what elections are all about; look at the Bell Curve sometime) would have voted for them if they hadn't been so uncomfortable with the increasingly strident positions taken by the GOP on issues from abortion to gay rights to one of the most stomach-churning intrusions of government into private affairs I've ever witnessed - Tom Delay's attempt to ramrod Old Time Baptist Fundamentalism down the throats of the Schiavo family. Had McCain made a clear statement rejecting such blatant excursions by the GOP into theocracy, I believe he could have carried the day.

683 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:29:20pm

re: #581 Occasional Reader

Somewhat ironically, it was the lefties who came up with the term "third world" back in the fifties or sixties. Now, of course, considered terribly impolite, if not "racist". I agree that "developing" is a silly whitewash. A good acronym I've seen used is simply LDCs, for "less deveoped countries".

Was coined by French economist and demographer Alfred Sauvy, in an article published in the French magazine L'Observateur, August 14, 1952. It was used to describe those countries not aligned with the U.S (First World) or the Soviet Union (Second World) that were un-developed or under-developed.

684 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:29:36pm

re: #665 Charles

Of course she is. The groups that are anti-gay, anti-science, and anti-choice, and vilify people like Jon Huntsman are always the same groups that are trying to sneak creationism into schools.

They will reap what they sow. She will only accelerate the GOPs decent towards a super-minority.

I just saw a small clip regarding Voorhees and it looks like the were precinct captain (or something similar) for Pat Robertson during his presidential bid.

685 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:29:38pm

re: #671 eschew_obfuscation

Sounds like a rational person.

Kyoto was never about reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It's merely a way for underdeveloped countries to 'tax' developed (prosperous) countries. It just shifts money around the planet and does nothing to reduce emissions as proven in Europe .... lots of changes, increased emissions.

It was more to do with wealth redistribution than climate change. The biggest polluter on the planet, China, was not even part of that agreement. They got a pass.

686 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:29:43pm

re: #670 Desert Dog

"If I'm elected, there will be a Mr. Fusion on every DeLorean"

I want the car with a dilithium power unit.
"Scotty, I need more power! There's a big semi heading towards us at warp 7."
"The engines canna take any more, Captain"

(Although whenever I see the car named "Impulse", I think "No, thanks; I want the one with warp drive")

687 beens21  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:30:20pm

re: #663 solomonpanting

yes

688 summergurl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:30:21pm

re: #650 kellino

Also note Huntsman's inference that the GOP is "devoid of ideas".

that's beyond disingenous and it's infuriating.

Again, utter nonsense. The GOP has plenty of ideas that aren't being effectively communicated televised by the MSM.

FIFY

689 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:30:32pm

re: #681 summergurl

I am fiscally conservative yet socially moderate. However, I would vote for a social conservative if they were fiscally conservative. When it becomes a dollar and cents sense issue, you go where the dollars go.

I'm willing to make compromises- I just wish some so-cons were too. We could have had Rudy or Mitt, but no. They don't like compromising their core issues.

690 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:00pm

re: #678 Jimmah

31,000 genuine climate scientists sign declaration that global warming is a hoax.

And a huge boost for the hotels, tourism industry and airlines as they cater to the conference 'merry-go-round'.

691 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:01pm

re: #638 Kenneth

Romney or Giuliani, or both, would have been a better ticket for the GOP last year. Oh well. Live and learn. Hopefully.

McCain never had a chance imo...it was not all about Palin nor was it about Bush for me...it was his illegal immigration scam and the media...no more, no less

692 UFO TOFU  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:14pm

re: #683 FurryOldGuyJeans

Interesting.

693 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:16pm

re: #665 Charles

Of course she is. The groups that are anti-gay, anti-science, and anti-choice, and vilify people like Jon Huntsman are always the same groups that are trying to sneak creationism into schools.

Egads! Creeps with an disgusting agenda.

694 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:27pm

re: #661 Kosh's Shadow

Right now, the source for hydrogen is natural gas. I haven't seen complete system studies, but I'd guess that is less efficient than using the gas directly, since it takes energy to extract the hydrogen, and the energy that could be obtained from burning the carbon is not used.

The National Academy of Engineering found, in 2003 I believe, the only economical way of making hydrogen from water is to use nuclear power.

Great point. And that's the funny, not-funny, irony of it. All this talk about alternative energy sources, how they are cleaner/more efficient - that's only at the time of use. Gasoline is very efficient - it explodes. You run your car by making a lot of little explosions. And it doesn't take all that much processing to make gasoline from its origins. Everything else.. takes a lot of effort/energy/by-product to make.

695 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:28pm

re: #12 Charles

That's simply not true.

Charles -

Without doubt AGW does exist. The question is the effect that we mere humans bring to it - AND - what we are willing to sacrifice in material living standard -if any- we are willing to accept to do anything about it.
In my mind, I do my bit. I drive a 2 liter smallish car and either walk or bicycle on really short hops. Every light in my living and office areas is either a CFL "squigg" or conventional florescent, even keep plants around as they Breathe CO2 and exhale oxygen, besides looking nice.
Where we may agree - OR - disagree is where we go with Technology. My problem with "Extreme Environmentalists" is Now - as it has been since Earth Day One is their rejection of technology. I am in favor of the development of ALL forms of clean energy, conventional and alternate with appropriate cleanup equipment as required - I do not feel that "Professional Evironmentalists" are. I believe they would prefer to go back to a simpler, romanticised, pre-industrial time without realizing all that would entail in lifestyle changes and the death by starvation of a great part of the current human population. Every movement has its zealots to get things moving, it is up to the saner among us to do what we reasonably can do. Side thought - Too Bad Farnsworth was never able to perfect the FUSOR, had he done so this discussion would be moot.

-S-

696 KenJen  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:36pm

re: #667 Sharmuta

I think fox has become a parody of themselves. I don't trust them, and keep in mind Murdoch supported 0bama.

I cant figure out why Fox is going this route. If Murdock is trying to pull in more liberal veiwers good luck to him. The name Fox is up there with Halliburton, Cheney and Blackwater on the list of names never to be trusted by the LLL's.

697 UberInfidel67  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:31:44pm

re: #637 Kosh's Shadow
Hey..my 43 yo other half LOVES the Simpsons. I have accepted that at heart, he is still a little boy. Nothing wrong with that : )

698 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:32:04pm

re: #682 SixDegrees

It failed because of the candidates involved, not because of their positions. McCain actually did quite well, given the uphill battle he faced as the successor to an extremely unpopular President. If he possessed more charisma, and if he had managed his campaign more effectively, there's a good chance he would have won.

Bringing more moderates under his wing wouldn't have hurt, either. A lot of those in the middle (they're what elections are all about; look at the Bell Curve sometime) would have voted for them if they hadn't been so uncomfortable with the increasingly strident positions taken by the GOP on issues from abortion to gay rights to one of the most stomach-churning intrusions of government into private affairs I've ever witnessed - Tom Delay's attempt to ramrod Old Time Baptist Fundamentalism down the throats of the Schiavo family. Had McCain made a clear statement rejecting such blatant excursions by the GOP into theocracy, I believe he could have carried the day.

I realize what you're trying to say, and I generally agree. However, this election wasn't about that social stuff. If it was, we could have pounded him on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act and his willingness to refuse health care for babies who survived an abortion attempt.

699 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:32:31pm

re: #686 Kosh's Shadow

I want the car with a dilithium power unit.
"Scotty, I need more power! There's a big semi heading towards us at warp 7."
"The engines canna take any more, Captain"

(Although whenever I see the car named "Impulse", I think "No, thanks; I want the one with warp drive")

I would take the phaser option with that model. You'll have no worries about big semis as they will be vaporized if they get to close. Or, bounce off your shields.

700 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:32:57pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

I'm willing to make compromises- I just wish some so-cons were too. We could have had Rudy or Mitt, but no. They don't like compromising their core issues.

I'm both a social conservative and fiscal conservative and Romney was my #1 choice all along.

701 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:32:58pm

re: #696 KenJen

I cant figure out why Fox is going this route.

Simple- they're making money.

702 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:33:10pm

re: #692 UFO TOFU

Interesting.

Just remember to arch that Vulcan eyebrow when you intone that phrase. ;)

703 turn  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:33:24pm

re: #574 Russkilitlover

wow, thanks for the heads up. turn usually votes no on everything too unless it's a trick where no means "yes". Later lizards, time to go walk the lab along the American.

704 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:33:33pm

re: #683 FurryOldGuyJeans

Was coined by French economist and demographer Alfred Sauvy, in an article published in the French magazine L'Observateur, August 14, 1952. It was used to describe those countries not aligned with the U.S (First World) or the Soviet Union (Second World) that were un-developed or under-developed.

Would disagree on your supposition . Russia (Europe) was the first world, the Americas the New (2nd) World and lesser developed nations the 3rd world as least as I always figured it.

705 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:33:48pm

re: #701 Sharmuta

Simple- they're making money.

ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Rupert loves the revenues

706 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:33:48pm

re: #627 ironmike

Yes you can say no...to abortion...to same sex marriage..

Those aren't conservative values. Quite the contrary, they are social engineering and everything except "conservative."

707 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:33:49pm

re: #672 Liberal Classic

Maybe next you can tell us how AGW skepticism is the same as Holocaust denial. Fuck you.

708 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:33:57pm

re: #701 Sharmuta

Simple- they're making money.

why are people so befuddled?

709 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:34:04pm

re: #678 Jimmah

31,000 genuine climate scientists sign declaration that global warming is a hoax.

Funny. At first, I thought I'd been rick-rolled.

710 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:34:12pm

re: #515 freedomplow

The "party of no" mantra is a liberal talking point pushed by the media and now parroted by the Utah Governor.

His argument was perfectly fine without that "You can't just say no. You can't just obstruct or obfuscate," statement.

* * * *
Exactly.

People who repeat this liberal talking point have drunk the koolaid, and have stupidly ACCEPTED THE BAD PREMISE that it is true.

Democrats are all repeating Specter's talking points, which were no doubt helpfully written by Rahm Emanuel or Joe Biden who bragged he worked on Specter to switch for the last 6 years and intensely over the last 100 days.

Repeating democrat talking points about republicans, doesn't make them true.

711 AuntAcid  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:34:14pm

re: #686 Kosh's Shadow

I want the car with a dilithium power unit.
"Scotty, I need more power! There's a big semi heading towards us at warp 7."
"The engines canna take any more, Captain"

(Although whenever I see the car named "Impulse", I think "No, thanks; I want the one with warp drive")

No one knows the tribbles I've seen...

712 Kragar  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:34:16pm

Fucking Snide weasely shits

Holder urges allies to take share of detainees

In answer to a question about Bush administration officials' decisions to authorize tough interrogation techniques, Holder said he believed that many of them would, privately, admit to having made some mistakes in the pressure and worry that followed the Sept. 11 attacks.

"I don't suspect that would be true of Vice President Dick Cheney," Holder added.

At another point, a questioner earnestly asked of those Guantanamo detainees who are believed to be innocent could be put in a hotel somewhere.

"Hotels might be a possibility, it depends on where the hotel is," joked Holder.

GO FUCK YOURSELF HOLDER

713 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:34:19pm

Additionally- the GOP needs to stop with policies that allow non-republicans to vote in their primaries/caucuses.

714 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:34:38pm

re: #565 Buck

It is a great THEORY... but there is NO EVIDENCE anywhere that CO2, Man made or otherwise drives the climate.

That's a completely false statement. There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which contributes a great deal to keeping the Earth's warmth from being radiated out into space.

No doubt.

And there's also no doubt that human beings have been contributing to a rise in the level of CO2 in the atmosphere since the start of the Industrial Age.

This is what I was talking about when I said I see way too much blanket denial based on ignorance.

715 UFO TOFU  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:00pm

re: #697 UberInfidel67

You sound like Mrs. Tofu. It was my niece's 1st birthday yesterday and she wouldn't allow me to get the little girl a solid fuel rocket. Said she was too young. How old do you have to be to like to blow sh*t up?

716 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:04pm

re: #641 Liberal Classic

The Republicans have lost the battle of framing the debate, and have allowed the Democrats to define them.

Part of the problem as I see it is the public perception of the Republican party. The Democrats have successfully painted the Republican party as simultaneously having two extreme wings. As it suits the needs of the Dems, they can point to either the social conservatives or the fiscal conservatives as being the boogeyman.

Actually, the Dems are attempting to co-opt the fiscal conservatism platform for themselves in some quarters, notably the newly-elected Democrat representatives. The budget isn't reflecting it, but in politics, words speak louder than actions, at least in the short term. The Republicans need to seize this turf as their own quickly, before they lose it.

As far as the agenda of the Social Conservatives, let's be clear: there is no such thing as a conservative who believes in such things. Social "conservatism" is an attempt to foist one particular set of fundamentalist Christian beliefs off onto all citizens, and represents a massive intrusion of government power into the private lives of those citizens. It is the polar opposite of Conservatism, which holds that the best government is the least intrusive government, and which attempts to create an environment where everyone is free to pursue their own lives as they see fit according to their own beliefs, to the greatest extent possible.

717 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:05pm

re: #701 Sharmuta

Simple- they're making money.

Not from me, they ain't. I stopped watching them a while back and have had nary a regret.

I want news, not propagandizing journalism spewing political agenda and bias.

718 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:14pm

re: #699 Desert Dog

I would take the phaser option with that model. You'll have no worries about big semis as they will be vaporized if they get to close. Or, bounce off your shields.

But they still need power from the antimatter converter. I'd have to divert power from the motor to the shields or to the phasers. Maybe use photon torpedoes instead.

719 jwb7605  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:17pm

re: #678 Jimmah

31,000 genuine climate scientists sign declaration that global warming is a hoax.

I think global warming and swine flue are both real and both are grossly overhyped.

Both issues seem to have the same probability success for any plan I've seen on how to effectively solve things.

Solutions to both issues apparently involve killing off most of the humans on the planet.

720 Liberal Classic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:24pm

re: #707 CyanSnowHawk

Maybe next you can tell us how AGW skepticism is the same as Holocaust denial. Fuck you.

I must have touched a nerve.

721 shrugger  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:30pm

The Red Team seems to be missing the point. There is an entire new generation of potential Red Team voters who are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

The GOP is going to lose these potential voters through their own stubbornness. It appears that they are going to double down on an Intelligent Design, anti-homosexual, pro-"life", anti-drug platform. Strike one. At the same time, they seem eerily quiet about fiscal conservatism. Strike two.

If the Red Team doesn't change their tune soon, Blue Team is going to be winning elections for years to come.

722 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:36pm

Anyone want to contact this Joanne Voorhees to let her know she's a tragic fool.

723 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:38pm

re: #717 FurryOldGuyJeans

Not from me, they ain't. I stopped watching them a while back and have had nary a regret.

I want news, not propagandizing journalism spewing political agenda and bias.

I stopped watching them years ago.

724 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:35:47pm

re: #695 Dr. Shalit

Without doubt AGW does exist. The question is the effect that we mere humans bring to it

Doesn't AGW stand for Anthropogenic Global Warning and thus mean "man made?"

725 medaura18586  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:36:13pm

re: #208 Charles

His support for gay rights is a real deal-killer for the Tony Perkins-Ralph Reed gang.

But his opposition to abortion rights is a real deal-killer for me. I don't care how moderate he is on anything else. Acceptance of abortion rights is a litmus test for me.

726 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:36:32pm

re: #704 Mr Spiffy

Would disagree on your supposition . Russia (Europe) was the first world, the Americas the New (2nd) World and lesser developed nations the 3rd world as least as I always figured it.

The usage has been US as First World and USSR as Second. Disagree all you want, them's the facts behind the term.

727 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:36:46pm

Does anyone remember the "Bo Knows" commercials for Nike with Bo Jackson?

Now it's "O Knows"!

"O" knows banks.
"O" knows the automobile industry.
"O" knows health care.

Obama Said to Plan for Chrysler Bankruptcy, Alliance

President Barack Obama plans to announce tomorrow that Chrysler LLC will be placed into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, leading to an alliance with Italian automaker Fiat SpA, people involved in the matter said.



What doesn't "O" know?

728 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:37:10pm

re: #721 shrugger

And nobody wants Pvt. Michael J. Caboose in office. (Red vs Blue reference for all you fanboys.)

729 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:37:14pm

re: #709 cliffster

Funny. At first, I thought I'd been rick-rolled.

Nah, you were just Kylied.

730 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:37:23pm

re: #542 freedomplow

Mike Huckabee will never win.

* * * *
He's going to host a "Biggest Losers" kind of segment on his tv show.

He can talk about losing hundreds of pounds, as a way to help the country with healthcare issues.

Huckabee can stay a talk-show host forever, after what he did to undermine Mitt Romney last year, I hope Huckabee stays on tv as a talking head.

731 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:37:48pm

re: #670 Desert Dog

"If I'm elected, there will be a Mr. Fusion on every DeLorean"

Damn straight. Time for Ford to dust off their prototypes of the Nucleon.

732 brookly red  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:37:57pm

re: #727 jorline

Does anyone remember the "Bo Knows" commercials for Nike with Bo Jackson?

Now it's "O Knows"!

"O" knows banks.
"O" knows the automobile industry.
"O" knows health care.

Obama Said to Plan for Chrysler Bankruptcy, Alliance

What doesn't "O" know?

didly.

733 UberInfidel67  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:38:09pm

re: #715 UFO TOFU
There is no age limit to blowing shit up.....as long as one is still in control of their mental faculties. It also help to be former military. A one year old however, would have to be a bystander....she can't operate the rocket. lol

734 jcm  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:38:12pm

re: #671 eschew_obfuscation

Sounds like a rational person.

Kyoto was never about reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It's merely a way for underdeveloped countries to 'tax' developed (prosperous) countries. It just shifts money around the planet and does nothing to reduce emissions as proven in Europe .... lots of changes, increased emissions.

Let's stipulate two things.

1) Cyclical climate change is real phenomena with a large natural component.
2) That anthropogenic component of climate change is debatable, from negligible to a primary climate driver.

Taking those two stipulations what do we do?

1) The political drive is to assume the anthropogenic component is the primary driver and climate change can be altered by altering human behavior on a large scale.

2) The other solution is to adapt to climate change as it occurs, making necessary changes as needed.

The problem is with solution 1). If it turns out that the anthropogenic component is not a driver, and altering human behavior will have little or no effect on climate then all the resource poured into that solution are wasted. And if this solution is wrong then we aren't prepared for natural climate change assuming we could alter the cycle.

If we put the resources into solution 2) it doesn't matter how or why climate change occurs we will be dealing with it. This solution covers both contingencies of climate change, both anthropogenic and natural.

735 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:38:16pm

re: #726 FurryOldGuyJeans

The usage has been US as First World and USSR as Second. Disagree all you want, them's the facts behind the term.

I'd say Russia has slid a little towards the 3rd now....in the tinpot dictator category. Take away that oil money and they are a larger version of Bulgaria.

736 summergurl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:38:50pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

I'm willing to make compromises- I just wish some so-cons were too. We could have had Rudy or Mitt, but no. They don't like compromising their core issues.

There is not going to be someone that lines up entirely with my social views and I get that. But being a good steward with our tax dollars and the money of the generations to come is a deal breaker for me. You have nothing if you can't fund it.


Personally I think a Romney/Palin ticket would have been pretty unstoppable.

The MSM touted McCain as their guy during the primaries because they hoped he would split the GOP - and it did.

737 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:38:52pm

re: #723 Sharmuta

I stopped watching them years ago.

A while back is years for me , Sharm. ;)

738 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:39:15pm

re: #713 Sharmuta

Additionally- the GOP needs to stop with policies that allow non-republicans to vote in their primaries/caucuses.

Are those policies set up by individual states?

739 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:39:24pm

re: #731 SixDegrees

Damn straight. Time for Ford to dust off their prototypes of the Nucleon.

Yes, a nuclear powered car! I bet they would sell good in the middle east too....not many used ones around though...

740 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:39:49pm

A sign that it might be time to start actually worrying about swine fever...

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

741 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:39:51pm

re: #732 brookly red

didly.

lol...Bo knew Diddley.

742 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:40:11pm

re: #722 FrogMarch

Anyone want to contact this Joanne Voorhees to let her know she's a tragic fool.

Already done. Moving on to those GOP leaders in Oakland and Kalamazoo counties, as soon as I find out who they are, and encourage them to ignore Voorhees' demonization of Huntsman.

743 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:40:19pm

re: #714 Charles

That's a completely false statement. There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which contributes a great deal to keeping the Earth's warmth from being radiated out into space.

No doubt.

And there's also no doubt that human beings have been contributing to a rise in the level of CO2 in the atmosphere since the start of the Industrial Age.

This is what I was talking about when I said I see way too much blanket denial based on ignorance.

Nice Charles..Taking a stand where science leads us...Kudos
Did you ever read some of the research the universetoday.com published last summer? I trash them on a few points..such as Solar activity being at a low point thus this must be manmade..But generally the science is fair and well thought out..

744 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:40:32pm

re: #734 jcm

A HUGE up-ding for ya'.

745 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:40:44pm

re: #735 Desert Dog

I'd say Russia has slid a little towards the 3rd now....in the tinpot dictator category. Take away that oil money and they are a larger version of Bulgaria.

Remember Russia is but a shadow of its former, USSR, form. The terms were coined during the Cold War and we did need a strong enemy to oppose back then.

746 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:40:57pm

re: #731 SixDegrees

Damn straight. Time for Ford to dust off their prototypes of the Nucleon.

"Kabul Ford? Yes, I'd like to order 1000 Nucleons.
No, I don't need financing; I will send someone with cash.
Just reserve them for Osama. Thanks."

747 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:41:00pm

re: #516 FurryOldGuyJeans

One Word; Bullshit. We got a Socialist Lite candidate campaigning against a Hard-Core Socialist.

* * * * *
Many voted on the basis of appearance alone. Youth, viggah, coolness, you know, the ISSUES.

748 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:41:12pm

re: #736 summergurl

Heck- I've even been willing to compromise on the fiscal issues for a couple years now, and look what it's gotten us? No more- if you're not going to be a staunch fisc-con, you can forget having my vote.

749 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:42:37pm

re: #738 TheMatrix31

Are those policies set up by individual states?

I believe so, yes. Regardless- it needs to stop. I don't want democrats and independents having a say in who we nominate.

750 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:42:40pm

re: #738 TheMatrix31

Are those policies set up by individual states?

They are, by each local state party. The Dems are as much of a "beneficiary" of the political shenanigans as are the Republicans. Just ask all-but-confirmed President Hillary about it.

751 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:43:07pm

re: #735 Desert Dog

I'd say Russia has slid a little towards the 3rd now....in the tinpot dictator category. Take away that oil money and they are a larger version of Bulgaria.

Only if you take away all that oil money. Which is silly; it's their oil, the world is hungry for it, and they're going continue selling it and enjoying superlative growth rates for the foreseeable future. Russia may have been sliding toward Third World economic status during the end years of Communism, but they are now aggressively capitalistic and are happily cashing in on their resources.

752 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:43:13pm

and another thing...I'd like to see TV networks out of the debate business...it seems like other sponsors could be found and get away from this circus act environment...put the candidates in an auditorium and let them duke it out for three hours...get some good tough questions to them and make them work...a lightly moderated free for all where you can't dodge the question

753 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:43:43pm

re: #745 FurryOldGuyJeans

Remember Russia is but a shadow of its former, USSR, form. The terms were coined during the Cold War and we did need a strong enemy to oppose back then.

I seem to remember that lesson from PolySci 101. It is dated now, but the 3rd World tag has stuck. The 2nd World label is passe now. Not many commies about now to pin it on. Time for a new set of labels.....Free and not Free? Fat and Rich or Poor and Ignorant?

754 Tamron  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:44:09pm

re: #494 Desert Dog

..She might be a factor in the next election. But, rest assured the Dems will run her "Deer in the Headlights" interview with Katie Couric on a continuous loop.....


By those standards, isn't it ironic how easy it was for two genuinely unqualified, empty-suit 'Deer in the Headlights' individuals to be elected by a landslide?

What would it take to air the following, on a continuous loop?





[Link: www.snopes.com...]
.
755 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:44:20pm

re: #747 alegrias

* * * * *
Many voted on the basis of appearance alone. Youth, viggah, coolness, you know, the ISSUES.

I have never been a herd animal when it comes to my vote; local, state, or national. I fought and bled for me to take it so lightly.

756 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:44:31pm

re: #746 Kosh's Shadow

"Kabul Ford? Yes, I'd like to order 1000 Nucleons.
No, I don't need financing; I will send someone with cash.
Just reserve them for Osama. Thanks."

Gotta love this line from the article:

The main dangers of the car would be the radiation, nuclear waste and a possibility of a small nuclear meltdown.

757 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:44:37pm

re: #650 kellino

Also note Huntsman's inference that the GOP is "devoid of ideas".

that's beyond disingenous and it's infuriating.

Again, utter nonsense. The GOP has plenty of ideas that aren't being effectively communicated.

If you can't communicate your ideas, then they're pretty worthless. It doesn't matter if they're great or not- lack of communication is fatal.

BTW- what are these ideas they're not communicating?

758 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:44:39pm

re: #753 Desert Dog

I seem to remember that lesson from PolySci 101. It is dated now, but the 3rd World tag has stuck. The 2nd World label is passe now. Not many commies about now to pin it on. Time for a new set of labels.....Free and not Free? Fat and Rich or Poor and Ignorant?

Dirty. Not dirty. There's your tags.

759 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:45:07pm

re: #76 MacGregor

History of Co2 on this planet. Check out the chart.

Remember that the atmosphere during much of that history was different in many ways to the one we have now, not just in respect to CO2 levels, and would not have supported the life we have on the planet today.

760 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:45:12pm

I'm starting to think the politics in the upper mid west -(Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota) is all just crazy. any way you slice it.

761 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:45:32pm

re: #749 Sharmuta

I believe so, yes. Regardless- it needs to stop. I don't want democrats and independents having a say in who we nominate.

I wish they'd do a system where we'd have four big "Super Tuesday"-like primaries. Randomly choose who gets into which primary group, rotate/alternate the order and groupings each year/cycle, etc

I think this would be effective in media control of candidacies.

762 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:45:41pm

re: #732 brookly red

didly.

Bo, however, did know didly. Bo Diddley.

763 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:45:58pm

Pelosi offers advice to GOP voters

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi marked President Barack Obama’s 100th day in office with some unsolicited advice for Republican voters, telling them to “take back” their party.

The California Democrat offered her own analysis of the political environment for her political opponents, asserting Republicans across the country are more willing to work with Democrats than their leaders on Capitol Hill.

“Yes, there is — shall we say — a ‘radical right-wing’ element with whom they identify. But by and large, I say to Republicans in America: Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness. This is not the Grand Old Party.”

Coin a phrase from Mandy...instead of WAB, Pelosi is SAB..Smug Ass Bitch!

764 Liberal Classic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:46:45pm

re: #716 SixDegrees

Actually, the Dems are attempting to co-opt the fiscal conservatism platform for themselves in some quarters, notably the newly-elected Democrat representatives. The budget isn't reflecting it, but in politics, words speak louder than actions, at least in the short term. The Republicans need to seize this turf as their own quickly, before they lose it.

Really? I haven't noticed the Dems attempting to co-opt the free-market economics. My perception is much the opposite. They're running on populism and economic intervention, and it seems to be working for them. Not saying you're wrong. :) Which newly-elected Dems so I can read up on them?

765 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:46:50pm

re: #695 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

Without doubt AGW does exist.(Ask any envirnonmentalist ) The question is the effect that we mere humans (as opposed to the mere cows we eat) bring to it - AND - what we are willing to sacrifice in material living standard -if any- we are willing to accept to do anything about it.
In my mind, I do my bit. I drive a 2 liter smallish car and either walk or bicycle on really short hops. Every light in my living and office areas is either a CFL "squigg" or conventional florescent, even keep plants around as they Breathe inhale CO2 and exhale oxygen, besides looking nice.
Where we may agree - OR - disagree is where we go with Technology. My problem with "Extreme Environmentalists" is Now - as it has been since Earth Day One is their rejection of technology. I am in favor of the development of ALL forms of clean energy, conventional and alternate with appropriate cleanup equipment as required - I do not feel that "Professional Evironmentalists" are. I believe they would prefer to go back to a simpler, romanticised, pre-industrial time without realizing all that would entail in lifestyle changes and the death by starvation of a great part of the current human population. Every movement has its zealots to get things moving, it is up to the saner among us to do what we reasonably can do. Side thought - Too Bad Farnsworth Doc Brownwas never able to perfect the FUSOR flux capacictor, had he done so this discussion would be moot.

-S-

766 jcm  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:47:23pm

re: #753 Desert Dog

I seem to remember that lesson from PolySci 101. It is dated now, but the 3rd World tag has stuck. The 2nd World label is passe now. Not many commies about now to pin it on. Time for a new set of labels.....Free and not Free? Fat and Rich or Poor and Ignorant?

I think you find "Consent of the Governed" covers it.

Where "Consent of the Governed" is the rule, the economic status is correspondingly better. Where the government is not with the "Consent of the Governed" the economic conditions are poor. Or almost any metric you care to chose, education, health, etc...

767 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:47:38pm

re: #763 jorline

Pelosi telling the GOP what to do. Oh, the irony of her talking about the fringe running the party.

768 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:47:40pm

re: #760 FrogMarch

I'm starting to think the politics in the upper mid west -(Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota) is all just crazy. any way you slice it.

MI is a donk nightmare...I left...they are right on the shirt tails of CA...maybe worse

769 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:47:55pm

re: #736 summergurl

There is not going to be someone that lines up entirely with my social views and I get that. But being a good steward with our tax dollars and the money of the generations to come is a deal breaker for me. You have nothing if you can't fund it.


Personally I think a Romney/Palin ticket would have been pretty unstoppable.

The MSM touted McCain as their guy during the primaries because they hoped he would split the GOP - and it did.


Romney had my vote from the get go.....But?
I like Huntsman.....He is my employer and done some things I'm not happy about, but still like him!

770 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:48:00pm

re: #734 jcm

What you said....yeah!

(I just love my eloquence)

The adaptation aspect of your post is something I've thought of many times when watching things on the History channel or Science channel about the geologic history of the earth. Over the eons, man and all of his ancestors have repeatedly adapted their way of life and choice of places to live to the climate. Someone earlier mentioned Greenland and how it once had a thriving Viking population (and I believe there was an older populace there as well) living in a "green land" that was not ice covered and cold. When it became an intolerable place to live, populations moved to warmer places. When there was a potato famine in Ireland, Irish moved to North America. There were people living in North America during the last ice age (Clovis man), just not in North Dakota.

You make very valid points.

771 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:48:07pm

re: #741 jorline

lol...Bo knew Diddley.

Quicker on the draw. You beat me.

772 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:48:14pm

re: #763 jorline

Pelosi offers advice to GOP voters

Coin a phrase from Mandy...instead of WAB, Pelosi is SAB..Smug Ass Bitch!

Who the fuck is San Fran Nan to tell us what to do with our party?

773 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:48:47pm

re: #772 TheMatrix31

Who the fuck is San Fran Nan to tell us what to do with our party?

she won

774 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:48:49pm

re: #761 TheMatrix31

I wish they'd do a system where we'd have four big "Super Tuesday"-like primaries. Randomly choose who gets into which primary group, rotate/alternate the order and groupings each year/cycle, etc

I think this would be effective in media control of candidacies.

I favor a national primary day, or something like what you suggest. Maybe a primary day for each time zone, or something.

775 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:48:49pm

re: #753 Desert Dog

I seem to remember that lesson from PolySci 101. It is dated now, but the 3rd World tag has stuck. The 2nd World label is passe now. Not many commies about now to pin it on. Time for a new set of labels.....Free and not Free? Fat and Rich or Poor and Ignorant?

re: #758 ConservatismNow!

Dirty. Not dirty. There's your tags.

Thinking of the world in terms of labels like that shows that neither one of you have much use for your passports. If you even have them.

776 jcm  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:48:51pm

re: #756 SixDegrees

Gotta love this line from the article:

The main dangers of the car would be the radiation, nuclear waste and a possibility of a small nuclear meltdown.

Pffft, details, details.

777 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:49:03pm

re: #769 RELOADINGISNOTAHOBBY
And , No I'm not LDS nor does it bother me he is!

778 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:49:26pm
779 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:49:38pm

re: #751 SixDegrees

Only if you take away all that oil money. Which is silly; it's their oil, the world is hungry for it, and they're going continue selling it and enjoying superlative growth rates for the foreseeable future. Russia may have been sliding toward Third World economic status during the end years of Communism, but they are now aggressively capitalistic and are happily cashing in on their resources.

They are more capitalistic that the USA right now, I will give them that. Comrade Obama is busy dusting off Stalin's 5 year plans from the 1920's and 30's.

Russia is doing very well, except for those few times when the Russian government seized private business for their own personal use, or imprisoned owners of companies because they held differing political views, or tossed reporters off buildings for writing bad things about the government, or poisoned a political candidate from a neighboring country because they would not "play ball", or threatened to cut off all oil and natural gas to the West if they did not do as Russia wanted, but besides that, they are a beckon of capitalism!

780 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:49:56pm

re: #763 jorline

Pelosi offers advice to GOP voters

Coin a phrase from Mandy...instead of WAB, Pelosi is SAB..Smug Ass Bitch!

i wouldn't trust pelosi's advice on most subjects, let alone how to galvanize
the GOP. what a conniving b*tch.
she needs to STFU.

781 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:50:26pm

re: #771 Silvergirl

Quicker on the draw. You beat me.

Bo knows Diddley

782 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:50:37pm

re: #774 Sharmuta

I favor a national primary day, or something like what you suggest. Maybe a primary day for each time zone, or something.

I think restricting it to regions/time zones would eventually make it devolve into a predictable pattern. Gotta mix it up. Imagine a primary day with California, Nevada, Iowa, Michigan, Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Massachusetts, and Ohio or something like that.

It'd be a battlefield!

783 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:51:20pm

May I suggest the concept of "Frugality"?

I am coming to the belief that we should all be Frugal with our environment. Spending less of our resources to get the best value. Especially with taxes and spending.

Seems to me that is one is Frugal, one will build with the best and most durable materials around - preferably materials that are easily regenerated. And if one is Frugal, one will make the best use of mass transit, rather than spending $'s on gas and parking.

Being Frugal and being a Conservative seems to be a natural fit.

Comments, please?

IT'S MY LIZARD-DAY, TODAY! I got to be part of this community one year ago today! I wanted to take an opportunity to thank everyone for making LGF such a lively and interesting place to spend time!

784 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:51:24pm

re: #779 Desert Dog

and their capitalism bred some gangsters that make Capone look like a choir boy

785 JustMyView  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:51:28pm

re: #774 Sharmuta

I favor a national primary day, or something like what you suggest. Maybe a primary day for each time zone, or something.

Regional primaries would be better, I think, because candidates could campaign more effectively between each primary. Having to campaign for a national primary would be very difficult and very , very expensive.

786 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:51:34pm

re: #780 nyc redneck

i wouldn't trust pelosi's advice on most subjects, let alone how to galvanize
the GOP. what a conniving b*tch.
she needs to STFU.

Her advice might just be the catalyst needed to start cohesion of the GOP. Getting bitch-slapped by Far-Left Pelosi is a good wake-up call.

787 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:51:35pm

Scientists spot oldest ever object in universe

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I was expecting a picture of Helen Thomas.

788 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:51:36pm

re: #720 Liberal Classic

I must have touched a nerve.

That you did. This is what did it.

In my opinion, greenhouse-effect skepticism has a lot in common with evolution skepticism.

Up until that point it was an interesting comment. Then you went for the dig.

789 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:51:42pm

re: #752 albusteve

Hiya Steve! I'm jacked up about the Hawks-Heat game tonight..Hope you are well..
I was thinking tonight..When I retire someday I could be the guy that says 'Welcome to Wal-Mart, Would you like a Cart?' or a Bookie in Vegas taking bets on Basketball...I realize the 20% off of anything at any Wal-Mart is tempting..But really..The Vig in Vegas has got to be better than that! LOL

790 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:52:06pm

re: #763 jorline

Pelosi offers advice to GOP voters

“Yes, there is — shall we say — a ‘radical right-wing’ element with whom they identify. But by and large, I say to Republicans in America: Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness. This is not the Grand Old Party.”

Coin a phrase from Mandy...instead of WAB, Pelosi is SAB..Smug Ass Bitch!

I fail to see how she's wrong. She's hoping that since she suggested it, we'll ignore her. Should we not stand for individual rights, fairness and fiscal responsibility?

791 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:52:32pm

re: #773 albusteve

We know. She's been reminding us of that since 2006.

792 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:53:17pm

re: #775 Cato the Elder

Thinking of the world in terms of labels like that shows that neither one of you have much use for your passports. If you even have them.

I've been to many countries in my short life, why would you say that? How many have you visited? I am at 41 presently and hope to add more, money permitting.

793 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:53:18pm

re: #781 jorline

Bo knows Diddley

Love it!

794 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:53:42pm

re: #774 Sharmuta

I favor a national primary day, or something like what you suggest. Maybe a primary day for each time zone, or something.

A while back I heard one suggestion of not letting the same states always be the front-runners in the primary process, make it more a lottery of who gets to be first each time.

795 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:54:11pm

re: #789 HoosierHoops

Hiya Steve! I'm jacked up about the Hawks-Heat game tonight..Hope you are well..
I was thinking tonight..When I retire someday I could be the guy that says 'Welcome to Wal-Mart, Would you like a Cart?' or a Bookie in Vegas taking bets on Basketball...I realize the 20% off of anything at any Wal-Mart is tempting..But really..The Vig in Vegas has got to be better than that! LOL

howdy...the Pistons are baked and my heart is broken....when I retire from here I'm moving to Jamaica and tend bar somewhere on the beach

796 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:54:32pm

re: #764 Liberal Classic

Really? I haven't noticed the Dems attempting to co-opt the free-market economics. My perception is much the opposite. They're running on populism and economic intervention, and it seems to be working for them. Not saying you're wrong. :) Which newly-elected Dems so I can read up on them?

Here's one that made some waves a few weeks ago:

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

797 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:54:57pm

re: #787 Walter L. Newton

Scientists spot oldest ever object in universe

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I was expecting a picture of Helen Thomas.

I'm confused. that's not a stock photo of Helen?

798 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:56:01pm

re: #657 taxfreekiller

Image: enemylist.jpg

799 jcm  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:56:05pm

re: #783 Conservative in Liberal Hands

May I suggest the concept of "Frugality"?

I am coming to the belief that we should all be Frugal with our environment. Spending less of our resources to get the best value. Especially with taxes and spending.

Seems to me that is one is Frugal, one will build with the best and most durable materials around - preferably materials that are easily regenerated. And if one is Frugal, one will make the best use of mass transit, rather than spending $'s on gas and parking.

Being Frugal and being a Conservative seems to be a natural fit.

Comments, please?

IT'S MY LIZARD-DAY, TODAY! I got to be part of this community one year ago today! I wanted to take an opportunity to thank everyone for making LGF such a lively and interesting place to spend time!

Another word is "Stewardship" to use resources in a responsible manner.

800 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:56:18pm

re: #781 jorline

Bo knows Diddley

And before he was hurt, he was the BEST 2 sport athlete ever. In my humble opinion. But then maybe I don't know diddlie?

801 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:56:40pm

re: #768 albusteve

MI is a donk nightmare...I left...they are right on the shirt tails of CA...maybe worse

MI is donk nightmare. *sigh* It's a beautiful place, ruined.

802 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:57:27pm

re: #792 Desert Dog

I've been to many countries in my short life, why would you say that? How many have you visited? I am at 41 presently and hope to add more, money permitting.

Glad to hear it. Maybe you were joking? The world cannot be neatly classified in those ways, any more than American can be separated into "Democrats" and "Republicans".

Maybe I'm taking things too seriously today. I apologize.

803 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:57:32pm

re: #714 Charles

That's a completely false statement. There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which contributes a great deal to keeping the Earth's warmth from being radiated out into space.

No doubt.

And there's also no doubt that human beings have been contributing to a rise in the level of CO2 in the atmosphere since the start of the Industrial Age.

This is what I was talking about when I said I see way too much blanket denial based on ignorance.

I disagree. There's too many meteorologists as well as scientists that either debunk man-made GW or at least call it very inconclusive. I say we get another one thousand years of data before we start penalizing our nations financial security with man-made arrogance.

804 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:58:07pm

re: #801 FrogMarch

MI is donk nightmare. *sigh* It's a beautiful place, ruined.

I have a very hard time just passing through to visit my mom....I can't stand it up there anymore...

805 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:58:08pm

re: #795 albusteve

howdy...the Pistons are baked and my heart is broken....when I retire from here I'm moving to Jamaica and tend bar somewhere on the beach

It doesn't get any better!

806 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:58:34pm

re: #648 rawmuse

The shipping of jobs overseas is generally a reaction to tax and employment regulations in the USA. The USA has one of the highest corporate tax rates on the planet. Those get passed on to the consumer. The USA consumer generally chooses the lower cost item, which is lower cost because it is not produced in the USA. It is a vicious cycle.

* * * *
Let's also give credit to:
Democrat unions pushing up mandatory wage scales also drives jobs out of the country, and illegal immigrants IN to take under-the-table jobs.

807 JustMyView  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:59:00pm

re: #749 Sharmuta

I believe so, yes. Regardless- it needs to stop. I don't want democrats and independents having a say in who we nominate.

An advantage of open primaries is that an attractive candidate can pull in voters that then stick around for the general. During the 2008 election, I read a comment by a California Dem leader say that they've observed that effect there.

808 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:59:18pm

re: #795 albusteve

howdy...the Pistons are baked and my heart is broken....when I retire from here I'm moving to Jamaica and tend bar somewhere on the beach

But you can't cry in your beer from that side of the bar!

809 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:59:53pm

Peres: Bombing Iran may not be the 'best solution'

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

No but it's probably better than all the other worst ones? Oh that is unless you and Obama, with your golden tongues, can talk Iran out of the bomb.

810 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:59:55pm

re: #805 HoosierHoops

It doesn't get any better!

not for me...it's my fallback...I have some land and money there and know quite a few people...if I get disgusted enough I'm outa here

811 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 2:59:58pm

Bombings in Baghdad seem to be undergoing a dramatic increase over the last couple of weeks, in both size and frequency.

Just as the Iranian election season is getting into full swing.

And as talk of a US pullout is becoming louder.

812 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:00:38pm

re: #808 Silvergirl

But you can't cry in your beer from that side of the bar!

might be my bar...

813 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:00:42pm

re: #808 Silvergirl

But you can't cry in your beer from that side of the bar!

But you can spit in the beer of anyone who pisses you off?

814 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:00:52pm

re: #807 JustMyView

An advantage of open primaries is that an attractive candidate can pull in voters that then stick around for the general. During the 2008 election, I read a comment by a California Dem leader say that they've observed that effect there.

If they are that attractive, then people can switch their party registrations to vote for them. I have no problem with that. Can't really stop people from changing party affiliations anyways.

815 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:01:08pm

re: #808 Silvergirl

But you can't cry in your beer from that side of the bar!

You can always cry in your beer..It's in the US Constitution..I read it somewhere..

816 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:01:25pm

re: #786 FurryOldGuyJeans

Her advice might just be the catalyst needed to start cohesion of the GOP. Getting bitch-slapped by Far-Left Pelosi is a good wake-up call.

she is twisting the knife, rubbing salt in the wounds w/ her condescending b.s.
it really shows how confident she is, to dispense "advice' like this so arrogantly. gak.
i can't wait until the GOP comes together and pushes her aside.

817 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:01:34pm

re: #651 FurryOldGuyJeans

*Sigh* Fred Thompson.

* * * *
Saw Fred Thompson speaking over a week ago, did you know he has a daily radio program? Google his name and radio to hear Fred Thompson!

818 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:01:55pm

re: #815 HoosierHoops

You can always cry in your beer..It's in the US Constitution..I read it somewhere..

I think it's something about "We the people"?

819 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:00pm

re: #790 Sharmuta

I fail to see how she's wrong. She's hoping that since she suggested it, we'll ignore her. Should we not stand for individual rights, fairness and fiscal responsibility?

The quote itself is right and people like us know it, I just have issue with the source telling us about going back to basics.

820 Spartacus50  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:06pm

I oppose the Governor solely on his belief of "Climate Change". Anyone gullible enough to believe in it is unworthy of higher office

821 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:07pm

re: #803 Soona'

I disagree. There's too many meteorologists as well as scientists that either debunk man-made GW or at least call it very inconclusive. I say we get another one thousand years of data before we start penalizing our nations financial security with man-made arrogance.

In the meantime, keeping the environment clean, just because it's a good idea not to crap where you live, would be nice as well.

822 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:23pm

re: #803 Soona'

I disagree. There's too many meteorologists as well as scientists that either debunk man-made GW or at least call it very inconclusive. I say we get another one thousand years of data before we start penalizing our nations financial security with man-made arrogance.

Offering peer-reviewed scientific evidence and research to counter warming proponents is entirely acceptable. In fact, it's the preferred way to conduct scientific debate.

823 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:24pm

re: #812 albusteve

might be my bar...

Do the Jamaicans like salty beer?

824 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:28pm

re: #818 Nevergiveup

I think it's something about "We the people"?

"Weep the People"

825 Desert Dog  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:33pm

re: #802 Cato the Elder

I tend to get inane about things sometimes. I have a love of meeting new people and seeing new places. It is very fascinating to see how other people live. I was a lucky young man was was able to study for 1 year in the UK back in my college days. I backpacked around most of Europe as a result. My work has allowed me to travel quite a bit and my wife is from the Philippines (we go back every year). My only regret is I have not seen much of Africa. Only Egypt and Morocco. Once I get enough to retire, Mrs. Desert Dog and I plan of seeing every place we can.

826 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:37pm

re: #818 Nevergiveup

I think it's something about "We the people"?

"Weep the people."

827 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:56pm

re: #824 albusteve

"Weep the People"

Lately yes

828 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:02:58pm

re: #799 jcm

Another word is "Stewardship" to use resources in a responsible manner.

Yes Stewardship is a companion concept. Part of being Frugal is being a good steward of resources - the air, land and seas around us as well as our financial resources and endeavors.

829 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:03:00pm

re: #815 HoosierHoops

You can always cry in your beer..It's in the US Constitution..I read it somewhere..

We're talkin' Jamaica here, mon.

830 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:03:26pm

social conservatives are the greatest ally obama has

831 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:03:30pm

re: #826 Cato the Elder

"Weep the people."

Hey, your late to the party?

832 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:03:35pm

re: #823 Silvergirl

Do the Jamaicans like salty beer?

not sure...they just suck it out of a bottle like the rest of us

833 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:03:38pm

re: #816 nyc redneck

she is twisting the knife, rubbing salt in the wounds w/ her condescending b.s.
it really shows how confident she is, to dispense "advice' like this so arrogantly. gak.
i can't wait until the GOP comes together and pushes her aside.

I think the reason why she said it was to punk us. We will reject her comments simply because she was the one who said it. But I still fail to see how she's wrong.

834 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:04:12pm

re: #820 Spartacus50

I oppose the Governor solely on his belief of "Climate Change". Anyone gullible enough to believe in it is unworthy of higher office

good thing you don't count

835 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:04:33pm

re: #790 Sharmuta

I fail to see how she's wrong. She's hoping that since she suggested it, we'll ignore her. Should we not stand for individual rights, fairness and fiscal responsibility?

All true Sharm, but who the hell is Pelosi...thus SAB.

She said, "Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness." When did the Republican Party have on it's platform the environment and fairness...this is all a liberal bullshit slant of conservatism...the Repug party she would like to see.

My beliefs in the Republican Party were individual rights, low taxes and smaller government...at least that I can remember.

836 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:04:36pm

re: #804 albusteve

I have a very hard time just passing through to visit my mom....I can't stand it up there anymore...

I have family in WI and MN. I love visiting. (in the summer) One cousin of mine who lives in a small/med sized town in WI told me what they pay in property taxes. My jaw hit the floor. I didn't think property taxes could be higher than where I live.
They are! The bluer the state, the higher the taxation. and often times is doesn't correlate to a better life.

837 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:04:39pm

re: #829 Silvergirl

We're talkin' Jamaica here, mon.

We the people have the right to get bummed out and drink too much beer and pee our name on a wall..
I read that somewhere

838 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:04:59pm

re: #825 Desert Dog

Just be sure to send us postcards!

839 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:05:12pm

re: #825 Desert Dog

I tend to get inane about things sometimes. I have a love of meeting new people and seeing new places. It is very fascinating to see how other people live. I was a lucky young man was was able to study for 1 year in the UK back in my college days. I backpacked around most of Europe as a result. My work has allowed me to travel quite a bit and my wife is from the Philippines (we go back every year). My only regret is I have not seen much of Africa. Only Egypt and Morocco. Once I get enough to retire, Mrs. Desert Dog and I plan of seeing every place we can.

Reminds me of an Army poster I saw once:

Join the Army and see the World
Visit exotic lands
Meet interesting people
And kill them

840 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:05:23pm

re: #833 Sharmuta

I think the reason why she said it was to punk us. We will reject her comments simply because she was the one who said it. But I still fail to see how she's wrong.

she's not wrong...ain't that a pisser?

841 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:05:42pm

re: #829 Silvergirl

We're talkin' Jamaica here, mon.

Well, here's Egg in your Beer, Silvergirl!

842 UFO TOFU  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:05:47pm

re: #837 HoosierHoops

and pee our name on a wall..

Sexist!

843 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:06:23pm

re: #803 Soona'

I disagree. There's too many meteorologists as well as scientists that either debunk man-made GW or at least call it very inconclusive. I say we get another one thousand years of data before we start penalizing our nations financial security with man-made arrogance.

You can disagree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas if you like. That's your right. But you're factually wrong.

844 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:06:25pm

re: #835 jorline

All true Sharm, but who the hell is Pelosi...thus SAB.

She said, "Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness." When did the Republican Party have on it's platform the environment and fairness...this is all a liberal bullshit slant of conservatism...the Repug party she would like to see.

My beliefs in the Republican Party were individual rights, low taxes and smaller government...at least that I can remember.

The environment- Teddy Roosevelt Fairness- Civil Rights movement.

845 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:06:34pm

re: #800 Nevergiveup

And before he was hurt, he was the BEST 2 sport athlete ever. In my humble opinion. But then maybe I don't know diddlie?

Amen...the best!

This doesn't count the NCAA track records he still owns at Auburn.

846 Truck Monkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:06:37pm

re: #797 FrogMarch

I'm confused. that's not a stock photo of Helen?

No. Helen Thomas actually TOOK the photo.

847 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:07:01pm

BBL...time to pick up the kids.

848 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:07:28pm

re: #836 FrogMarch

I have family in WI and MN. I love visiting. (in the summer) One cousin of mine who lives in a small/med sized town in WI told me what they pay in property taxes. My jaw hit the floor. I didn't think property taxes could be higher than where I live.
They are! The bluer the state, the higher the taxation. and often times is doesn't correlate to a better life.

I have a friend in Jersey on a small lake....he may have to sell out because of prop taxes....he and his wife both have excellent jobs but the taxes are simply astounding....NM looks pretty good in that regard, people keep moving here

849 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:07:50pm

re: #780 nyc redneck

i wouldn't trust pelosi's advice on most subjects, let alone how to galvanize
the GOP. what a conniving b*tch.
she needs to STFU.

Taking my opinion from comments I've read here on LGF; many who say they're conservative I would suspect secretly agree with dear old Nancy.

850 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:07:56pm

re: #837 HoosierHoops

Q: Does anybody know what happens when there's a pissing contest?

A: Everything gets wet and everybody stinks!

851 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:07:56pm

re: #681 summergurl

I am fiscally conservative yet socially moderate. However, I would vote for a social conservative if they were fiscally conservative. When it becomes a dollar and cents sense issue, you go where the dollars go.

* * * *
Smart summergurl.

If we can agree on a few basic things, we can work together on the others.

852 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:07:56pm

re: #833 Sharmuta

I think the reason why she said it was to punk us. We will reject her comments simply because she was the one who said it. But I still fail to see how she's wrong.

I also agree with her statement. But I certainly don't trust her motives. Strengthening the GOP certainly isn't her goal.

I suspect it's a rather blunt attempt at exacerbating the current divisions within the GOP, which is also currently without any real leadership and is rapidly devolving into factional control.

853 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:08:09pm

re: #820 Spartacus50

I oppose the Governor solely on his belief of "Climate Change". Anyone gullible enough to believe in it is unworthy of higher office

I would like to declare Spartacus50 as an official moby.

Hey Spartacus50, dis you finally get your personal briefing from the DoD, the Air Force, the Department of Homeland Security and the NSA?

854 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:08:20pm

re: #839 LGoPs

Reminds me of an Army poster I saw once:

Join the Army and see the World
Visit exotic lands
Meet interesting people
And kill them

I believe that was an anti-military poster from the sixties.

Then there's the sailor's old jingle:

I joined the Navy
To see the world
And what did I see
I saw the sea

855 JustMyView  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:08:22pm

re: #814 Sharmuta

If they are that attractive, then people can switch their party registrations to vote for them. I have no problem with that. Can't really stop people from changing party affiliations anyways.

No, but changing party registration involves barriers--time, deadlines--that undermine participation. It seems unfortunate to turn away people who identify as independents or who might not be enthusiastic about any Dem candidate.

856 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:08:38pm

re: #843 Charles

You can disagree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas if you like. That's your right. But you're factually wrong.

I didn't understand Soona' to be commenting on that point at all, just on AGW.

Am I wrong, Soona'?

857 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:08:46pm

re: #845 jorline

Amen...the best!

This doesn't count the NCAA track records he still owns at Auburn.

Before he got hurt, he was the best running back in the NFL, on his way to being an all time great. In Baseball, he was on his way to being a feared hitter, a great fielder with a gun for an arm.

858 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:09:11pm

re: #833 Sharmuta

I think the reason why she said it was to punk us. We will reject her comments simply because she was the one who said it. But I still fail to see how she's wrong.

we already know what is true abt. her statements.
it won't be rejected.
that is what is so disgusting, to be lectured to by this disingenuous malicious hag.
w/ her phony concern.
it is the height of arrogance.

859 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:09:26pm

re: #854 Cato the Elder

I sometimes wonder how come the Navy is disproportionately staffed by Midwesterners.

860 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:09:35pm

re: #850 Conservative in Liberal Hands

Q: Does anybody know what happens when there's a pissing contest?

A: Everything gets wet and everybody stinks!

Point of order? If everyone stinks, how do you know?

861 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:09:38pm

re: #837 HoosierHoops

We the people have the right to get bummed out and drink too much beer and pee our name on a wall..
I read that somewhere

Men are superior to women. For one thing, men can urinate from a speeding car.

862 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:09:53pm

re: #831 Nevergiveup

Hey, your late to the party?

Story of my life.

863 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:10:10pm

re: #857 Nevergiveup

Saw Bo with the White Sox. He turned a Single into a Double by his speed. Incredible athlete!

864 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:10:28pm

I think pelosi is banking on us being knee-jerk contrarians to her statement. It would really piss her off if we said, "Okay, you Syrian thug lovin' traitor. We're going to take our party back and run on fiscal responsibility, individual rights, and accountability". That would shut her up right quick.

Additionally- this is the same thin Rahm said a few weeks ago. They're really, really hoping we don't take them at face value.

865 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:10:48pm

re: #856 goddessoftheclassroom

I didn't understand Soona' to be commenting on that point at all, just on AGW.

Am I wrong, Soona'?

He was responding to my comment stating some scientific facts about CO2.

866 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:10:59pm

re: #861 Silvergirl

Men are superior to women. For one thing, men can urinate from a speeding car.

So can women. But...well. TMI would definitely apply, were I to try to explain.

867 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:11:38pm

re: #864 Sharmuta

I think pelosi is banking on us being knee-jerk contrarians to her statement. It would really piss her off if we said, "Okay, you Syrian thug lovin' traitor. We're going to take our party back and run on fiscal responsibility, individual rights, and accountability". That would shut her up right quick.

Additionally- this is the same thin Rahm said a few weeks ago. They're really, really hoping we don't take them at face value.

Steele should speak up....oh right...he's just a fundraiser

868 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:11:54pm

Seriously, this "it's arrogant to think man could affect something as vast etc as the atmosphere" meme needs to die. Man has already affected the atmosphere in ways that have the potential to impact on the health of the biosphere - remember the ozone hole, caused by man made atmospheric pollution? We also have the mid century cooling which was caused by man made atmospheric pollution and alleviated by clean air acts. It's not arrogant to observe the facts and see that it is well within our ability to screw with the environment.

869 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:11:58pm

re: #864 Sharmuta

I think pelosi is banking on us being knee-jerk contrarians to her statement.

Agree -- and it seems to be working.

870 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:12:08pm

re: #856 goddessoftheclassroom

I didn't understand Soona' to be commenting on that point at all, just on AGW.

Am I wrong, Soona'?

I saw that too, but Soona did disagree with Charles' post asserting that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. I don't think that is what she meant to do.

871 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:12:57pm

re: #852 SixDegrees

I also agree with her statement. But I certainly don't trust her motives. Strengthening the GOP certainly isn't her goal.

I suspect it's a rather blunt attempt at exacerbating the current divisions within the GOP, which is also currently without any real leadership and is rapidly devolving into factional control.

I think this is reverse psychology. We ignore the message because of the messenger. If this had been said by a republican we'd likely be agreeing with it.

872 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:13:22pm

re: #861 Silvergirl

Men are superior to women. For one thing, men can urinate from a speeding car.

LOL
yea during College that is so true..After that you pretty much have to roll them off the couch and hope for the best....
/

873 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:13:28pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

I'm willing to make compromises- I just wish some so-cons were too. We could have had Rudy or Mitt, but no. They don't like compromising their core issues.

* * * *
Rudy Giuliani was a lazy candidate with a bad plan. Sorry, because I respect him, but he got and took bad advice.

874 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:13:57pm

re: #759 Jimmah

Remember that the atmosphere during much of that history was different in many ways to the one we have now, not just in respect to CO2 levels, and would not have supported the life we have on the planet today.

Good point. And it will probably change again and we'll go extinct like everything else. We can't capture a moment in chaos and make it last forever. That's not natural. Our only hope is to evolve with a constantly changing climate. The CO2 would rise if we were here or not.

875 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:14:02pm

re: #859 Dianna

I sometimes wonder how come the Navy is disproportionately staffed by Midwesterners.

I grew up in San Diego, always very close to the coast. Life at sea had little appeal to me until I'd spent almost 3 years in Kansas in the Army.

876 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:14:35pm

re: #854 Cato the Elder

re: #839 LGoPs

Reminds me of an Army poster I saw once:

Join the Army and see the World
Visit exotic lands
Meet interesting people
And kill them

I believe that was an anti-military poster from the sixties.
Then there's the sailor's old jingle:

I joined the Navy
To see the world
And what did I see
I saw the sea

Perhaps. I saw it in an Army barracks at Ft Campbell in the late 70's. The soldiers thought it was funny. So did I.

877 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:14:45pm

re: #846 Truck Monkey

No. Helen Thomas actually TOOK the photo.

yes - that's it!

878 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:14:55pm

re: #821 CyanSnowHawk

In the meantime, keeping the environment clean, just because it's a good idea not to crap where you live, would be nice as well.

I have never advocated not being good stewards. But please, the road we're going down now will put humankind in long term regression.

879 Spartacus50  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:15:08pm

re: #834 albusteve

good thing you don't count

good thing I don't live in Utah.

880 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:15:39pm

re: #872 HoosierHoops

LOL
yea during College that is so true..After that you pretty much have to roll them off the couch and hope for the best....
/

Yup I remember a guy at a bar that was so drunk he thought a bar stool was a toilet.
Hiya hoops.

881 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:16:01pm

re: #879 Spartacus50

good thing I don't live in Utah.

it's a fine state full of good people...you are not worthy

882 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:16:58pm

re: #837 HoosierHoops

We the people have the right to get bummed out and drink too much beer and pee our name on a wall..
I read that somewhere

On a wall?

883 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:17:29pm

re: #876 LGoPs

Perhaps. I saw it in an Army barracks at Ft Campbell in the late 70's. The soldiers thought it was funny. So did I.

Join the Army and see the World
Visit exotic lands
Meet interesting people
And kill them

I believe that was an anti-military poster from the sixties.

It's only anti-military if you are so inclined that way. Most people I know in the service don't take it that way. But then we are all baby killers?

884 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:17:57pm

re: #880 DEZes

Yup I remember a guy at a bar that was so drunk he thought a bar stool was a toilet.
Hiya hoops.

Hiya Dez! hope today finds you well...

885 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:06pm

re: #880 DEZes

Yup I remember a guy at a bar that was so drunk he thought a bar stool was a toilet.
Hiya hoops.

Hope you weren't on it at the time?

886 Bloodnok  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:08pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

I'm willing to make compromises- I just wish some so-cons were too. We could have had Rudy or Mitt, but no. They don't like compromising their core issues.

Agreed.

887 irongrampa  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:12pm

Denying global warming OR cooling is illogical.

The only recourse is adapting, or not.
Anything else is moot.

888 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:13pm

re: #878 Soona'

I have never advocated not being good stewards. But please, the road we're going down now will put humankind in long term regression.

I agree, and am in the skeptic camp on AGW as well.
And sorry for giving you a sex change in my last comment if I did.

889 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:17pm

re: #755 FurryOldGuyJeans

I have never been a herd animal when it comes to my vote; local, state, or national. I fought and bled for me to take it so lightly.

890 DistantThunder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:46pm

People cannot become neurotic (excessive negative reaction) about Republican issues for membership. Some of us have deal breaker issues like abortion. But to create a litmus test that requires 7-10 areas of agreement, just isn't reasonable.

Specter's backstabbing association with the Democrats on the most sensitive core issue of fiscal discipline seems like a deal breaker.

Deal breakers for me:
I want to be safe in my home, and in my country via a strong defense, and strong support for the rule of law.
I want a free market economy via low taxes that regulates safety issues.
I want my rights protected as described in the constitution.

I prefer a pro-life president, but not one that is prepared to dismantle Roe v Wade and unleash the vengence of the left.

Everything else is negotiable.

891 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:48pm

re: #800 Nevergiveup

And before he was hurt, he was the BEST 2 sport athlete ever. In my humble opinion. But then maybe I don't know diddlie?

Can't argue with that.
I saw him hit a home run off Nolan Ryan that still hasn't landed.

and then later he threw a frozen rope from the base of the foul pole to home plate and got this guy out who was trying to score.

Bo was the best.
Shame about his hip

892 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:18:54pm

re: #885 Nevergiveup

Hope you weren't on it at the time?

No, lol, I would be posting this from prison. ;)

893 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:19:06pm

re: #888 CyanSnowHawk

I agree, and am in the skeptic camp on AGW as well.
And sorry for giving you a sex change in my last comment if I did.

So soona is a Guy? right?

894 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:19:26pm

re: #887 irongrampa

Denying global warming OR cooling is illogical.

The only recourse is adapting, or not.
Anything else is moot.

I'm a Mootist...I'll survive until they catch up to me

895 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:19:32pm

Later folks.

896 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:19:57pm

re: #883 Nevergiveup

Join the Army and see the World
Visit exotic lands
Meet interesting people
And kill them

I believe that was an anti-military poster from the sixties.

It's only anti-military if you are so inclined that way. Most people I know in the service don't take it that way. But then we are all baby killers?

* * * * *
Shhhh, that's a democrat plank top issue.

897 Spartacus50  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:19:58pm

re: #853 Walter L. Newton

I would like to declare Spartacus50 as an official moby.

Hey Spartacus50, dis you finally get your personal briefing from the DoD, the Air Force, the Department of Homeland Security and the NSA?

Still no photos from the "photo op" and still no flight manifest. By the end of the week the stunt will be casually forgotten. Pitiful.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Climate Change, MMGW or whatever you want to call it is simply a manufactured issue. The only way you are going to reduce carbon output is reducing the "carbon producers", ie people.

898 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:20:07pm

re: #882 Russkilitlover

On a wall?

It's actually an Urban Legion ..Nobody in College ever peed on a wall..
/

899 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:20:18pm

re: #884 HoosierHoops

Made it through hump day, ;)

900 Spartacus50  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:20:31pm

re: #881 albusteve

it's a fine state full of good people...you are not worthy

Its great skiing there.

901 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:20:34pm

re: #891 Shug

Can't argue with that.
I saw him hit a home run off Nolan Ryan that still hasn't landed.

and then later he threw a frozen rope from the base of the foul pole to home plate and got this guy out who was trying to score.

Bo was the best.
Shame about his hip

Yeah, he even made the Royals look good. *ducks*

902 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:20:36pm

re: #890 DistantThunder

You're too kind. I won't vote for a "gun-control" candidate. The Second Amendment protects the rest.

903 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:20:43pm

Being a skeptic about AGW, doesn't mean you are in favor of trashing the earth or wasting resources.

I look at the great lakes carved out by Glaciers and I think there is a force larger than man which is calling the shots.

but I believe we should do everything in our power to protect nature and to keep the earth clean.

So what does that make me?

904 MJ  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:21:01pm

Muslims get long sentences for U.S. Army base plot

PHILADELPHIA, April 29 (Reuters) - Two Muslim men convicted of plotting to kill soldiers at a U.S. Army base received long prison sentences on Wednesday for a plan prosecutors said was inspired by holy war against the United States.

Three others in the plot were handed life sentences on Tuesday.

Mohamad Shnewer, 23, a Jordanian-born taxi driver from Philadelphia, was sentenced to life plus 30 years for his part in the plan to attack the base at Fort Dix in New Jersey using automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades, the U.S. attorney's office said.

Serdar Tatar, 25, a Turkish-born convenience store clerk from Philadelphia, was given a 33-year sentence in federal prison for his role in the planned attack, which was never carried out.

The two men, together with ethnic Albanian brothers Dritan, Eljvir and Shain Duka, planned to kill as many soldiers as possible at the base in retaliation for what they saw as U.S. oppression of Muslims around the world, prosecutors said. The five were convicted in December.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

905 sandspur  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:21:14pm
“You can’t just say no. You can’t just obstruct or obfuscate,” Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said in an interview with ABC News. “Instead of just kind of grousing and complaining, it would do us all a whole lot of good if we actually started engaging directly in finding compromises and common ground and shared solutions.” ...

Two words: "I won". I have not seen any evidence that the Dems are interested in anything except promoting their own agenda and portraying Republicans as the party of "no". The Dems shut Republicans out of the law-making process and then paint them as obstructionist merely to make themselves look like victims and the Repubs as "unfair".
I don't want the Republicans voting yes on bills that are bad for our country just to avoid being called meanies. If they aren't being allowed to participate in the crafting of the bills, they should at least take a stand against bad legislation.

906 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:21:29pm

Why is it when someone voices a reasonable criticism of the GOP, there are those who insist on reading it as "be more like the left"?

It strikes me as stupid and nonsensical. Illogically reactionary.

907 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:21:48pm

re: #898 HoosierHoops

It's actually an Urban Legion ..Nobody in College ever peed on a wall..
/

Yeah, why get outa bed?

908 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:21:53pm

Do you ever feel a little sheepish when people around you are having solid political discourse and you're talking about crying in beer and peeing on walls and from speeding cars?

Feeling sheepish. :-)

Though I should at least tell the story of when my brother-in-law woke up and opened the closet door in the bedroom and peed all over my sister's shoes. First and last time for that one.

909 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:21:53pm

re: #891 Shug

Can't argue with that.
I saw him hit a home run off Nolan Ryan that still hasn't landed.

and then later he threw a frozen rope from the base of the foul pole to home plate and got this guy out who was trying to score.

Bo was the best.
Shame about his hip

I saw him flat out run right through Brian Bosworth who had an angle and had him pinned at the sideline....smashed into him and right right over him and hardly lost a step

910 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:21:55pm

re: #893 Nevergiveup

So soona is a Guy? right?

I think so now. I saw that another lizards referred to Soona as 'he' in another post after I had posted one where I used 'she'.

911 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:22:01pm

re: #757 Sharmuta

If you can't communicate your ideas, then they're pretty worthless. It doesn't matter if they're great or not- lack of communication is fatal.

BTW- what are these ideas they're not communicating?

* * * *
You keep listening to Nancy Pelosi, dear. That's all you need to know.

912 irongrampa  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:22:04pm

re: #894 albusteve

LOL. That was good.

913 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:22:08pm

Is everyone in basic agreement that we want clean air and water? That being wasteful and poluting is just dumb?

914 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:22:19pm

re: #903 Shug

Being a skeptic about AGW, doesn't mean you are in favor of trashing the earth or wasting resources.

I look at the great lakes carved out by Glaciers and I think there is a force larger than man which is calling the shots.

but I believe we should do everything in our power to protect nature and to keep the earth clean.

So what does that make me?

It makes you reasonable.

915 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:22:47pm

re: #909 albusteve

I saw him flat out run right through Brian Bosworth who had an angle and had him pinned at the sideline....smashed into him and right right over him and hardly lost a step

I loved the "no Bozo" signs at Mile High Stadium

916 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:23:22pm

re: #843 Charles

You can disagree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas if you like. That's your right. But you're factually wrong.

I'm not disagreeing anything about the nature of carbon dioxide. Where I I differ is conclusions made on incomplete and agenda-driven concepts promoted by individuals who only want to get rich off my dime or would force me to start surrendering my liberty.

917 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:23:24pm

re: #903 Shug

Being a skeptic about AGW, doesn't mean you are in favor of trashing the earth or wasting resources.

I look at the great lakes carved out by Glaciers and I think there is a force larger than man which is calling the shots.

but I believe we should do everything in our power to protect nature and to keep the earth clean.

So what does that make me?

Well spoken and reasonable.

918 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:23:46pm

re: #915 Shug

I loved the "no Bozo" signs at Mile High Stadium

what a great place to see a game...I am blessed with some memories

919 irongrampa  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:23:49pm

re: #909 albusteve

Raiders /Seahawk game, wasn't it?

920 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:23:49pm

re: #908 Silvergirl

Do you ever feel a little sheepish when people around you are having solid political discourse and you're talking about crying in beer and peeing on walls and from speeding cars?

Feeling sheepish. :-)

Though I should at least tell the story of when my brother-in-law woke up and opened the closet door in the bedroom and peed all over my sister's shoes. First and last time for that one.

They still married? Was he neutered?

921 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:24:13pm

re: #911 alegrias

You, of course, failed to answer my question. Where are these counter-proposals? I'd like to see them.

922 DistantThunder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:24:31pm

re: #902 OldLineTexan

You're too kind. I won't vote for a "gun-control" candidate. The Second Amendment protects the rest.

I covered that in protecting my constitutional rights.

923 Salamantis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:24:56pm

Susan Collins nails it:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Excerpt:

There is no plausible scenario under which Republicans can grow into a majority while shrinking our ideological confines and continuing to retract into a regional party. Ideological purity is not the ticket back to the promised land of governing majorities — indeed, it was when we began to emphasize social issues to the detriment of some of our basic tenets as a party that we encountered an electoral backlash.

It is for this reason that we should heed the words of President Ronald Reagan, who urged, “We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ‘litmus test’ of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.” He continued, “As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement.”

I couldn’t agree more. We can’t continue to fold our philosophical tent into an umbrella under which only a select few are worthy to stand. Rather, we should view an expansion of diversity within the party as a triumph that will broaden our appeal. That is the political road map we must follow to victory.

RTWT

924 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:25:16pm

re: #920 Nevergiveup

They still married? Was he neutered?

No longer married. Just missed getting neutered. :-)

925 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:25:18pm

re: #866 Dianna

So can women. But...well. TMI would definitely apply, were I to try to explain.

That was you on El Camino?

926 Tamron  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:25:34pm

re: #779 Desert Dog

Russia is doing very well, except for those few times when the Russian government seized private business for their own personal use, or imprisoned owners of companies because they held differing political views, or tossed reporters off buildings for writing bad things about the government, or poisoned a political candidate from a neighboring country because they would not "play ball", or threatened to cut off all oil and natural gas to the West if they did not do as Russia wanted, but besides that, they are a beckon of capitalism!

Here's some related info:

Oil Leak Shuts Down Kazakh Oil Pipeline

March 2, 2009

(SRI) - The Caspian Pipeline Consortium (CPC) suspended the Tengiz-Novorossiisk pipeline on Friday after an oil leak was discovered. CPC claims that Kazakh crude shipments to Russia have not been affected.

The Kazakh Ministry for Emergency Situations announced news of the leak on Friday after part of the pipeline was halted a day earlier. Ministry officials said that they were not sure when the pipeline would return to full operational mode.

CPC meanwhile said that the leak should not affect Kazakh oil exports, bulk of which go via the CPC pipeline.

“The suspension… has not affected CPC export shipments thanks to the use of reservoir facilities,” the pipeline consortium said in a statement.

The Chevron-led CPC pipeline ships crude from some of Kazakhstan’s biggest oilfields such as Tengiz to the Russian port of Novorossiisk. Other members of the consortium include Russian pipeline company Transneft, ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, BP and LUKOIL, and also the governments of Russia and Kazakhstan.

*************************************
Here's another website with related news, same subject.
.

927 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:25:49pm

re: #913 Dianna

Is everyone in basic agreement that we want clean air and water? That being wasteful and poluting is just dumb?

I am. And I have been doing it longer than Al Gore, too.

/Dad followed us around and switched off lights. The thermostat was guarded by winged demons with fangs like THIS!

Now I'm old and do the same to my kids.

928 Bloodnok  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:26:12pm

re: #763 jorline

Pelosi offers advice to GOP voters

Coin a phrase from Mandy...instead of WAB, Pelosi is SAB..Smug Ass Bitch!

It is surprising to me that Pelosi would say this, because she is right.

929 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:26:21pm

re: #922 DistantThunder

I covered that in protecting my constitutional rights.

You have to spell it out for Libs, usually.

/my two cents, FWIW

930 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:26:26pm

re: #879 Spartacus50

good thing I don't live in Utah.

What's wrong with Utah?

931 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:26:42pm

re: #870 CyanSnowHawk

I saw that too, but Soona did disagree with Charles' post asserting that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. I don't think that is what she meant to do.

You're both right. (And I'm a He)

932 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:27:03pm

re: #928 Bloodnok

It is surprising to me that Pelosi would say this, because she is right.

She said it because it's reverse psychology. She's hoping we reject this idea simply because she was the one who said it.

933 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:27:13pm

re: #925 debutaunt

That was you on El Camino?

I watched a girl win a bet in college.

As Dr. Shalit (wisely) says: That is all.

934 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:27:34pm

re: #903 Shug

Being a skeptic about AGW, doesn't mean you are in favor of trashing the earth or wasting resources.

I look at the great lakes carved out by Glaciers and I think there is a force larger than man which is calling the shots.

but I believe we should do everything in our power to protect nature and to keep the earth clean.

So what does that make me?

Sane. But just because we both feel this way doesn't mean that idiots like Sheryl Crow can tell us we need to use three pieces of toilet paper per visit, and that pisses me off more than anything instead of wanting to help any issue that may or may not exist.

935 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:27:51pm

re: #919 irongrampa

Raiders /Seahawk game, wasn't it?

must have been...Bosworth still had some cred then, before his downfall...it was a rare play and I saw it live

936 DistantThunder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:27:53pm

It's my concern about Mitt. He is not a creationist, but he's a genius on most of the other issues. The creationist meme wasn't an issue in the last election that I even heard about, but it seems to be gaining force. Even health care he can say.."Look, I gave it the best case scenario in Mass, and it still is massively inefficient, so let's not go there on a national level."

937 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:28:00pm

re: #925 debutaunt

That was you on El Camino?

No.

I know more about that story - if we're thinking of the same one - than I really want to, though.

938 irongrampa  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:28:02pm

re: #927 OldLineTexan

Raising our kids made me think that at certain ages words like "off" and "shut" disappear from their vocabularies.

939 JCM  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:28:05pm

re: #913 Dianna

Is everyone in basic agreement that we want clean air and water? That being wasteful and poluting is just dumb?

Nah, like to see the air I breath, and who needs clean water? I like mine with arsenic!

/steorotype bitter clingy gun nut.

940 Salamantis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:28:17pm

re: #923 Salamantis

Oops; that's Olympia Snowe, the OTHER female senator from Maine...

941 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:28:26pm

re: #923 Salamantis

In other words, "be more like the left".
/////

942 UFO TOFU  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:28:49pm

re: #913 Dianna

Is everyone in basic agreement that we want clean air and water? That being wasteful and poluting is just dumb?

I'll agree to a point. I believe you live in CA. Have you ever dealt with any of the zealots from our pollution agencies?

943 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:29:09pm

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea warned Wednesday it will fire an intercontinental ballistic missile — or even carry out another nuclear test — unless the U.N. apologizes for condemning the regime's April 5 rocket launch.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

How do you say "Blow me" in North Korean?

944 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:29:19pm

re: #934 TheMatrix31

Sane. But just because we both feel this way doesn't mean that idiots like Sheryl Crow can tell us we need to use three pieces of toilet paper per visit, and that pisses me off more than anything instead of wanting to help any issue that may or may not exist.

I agree completely.
Especially when the person telling you to conserve is flying on a private jet

945 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:29:23pm

re: #910 CyanSnowHawk

I think so now. I saw that another lizards referred to Soona as 'he' in another post after I had posted one where I used 'she'.

I'm a HE! I'm a HE!

946 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:29:25pm

re: #767 FurryOldGuyJeans

Pelosi telling the GOP what to do. Oh, the irony of her talking about the fringe running the party.

* * * *
Pelosi who says she slept through 9/11/01's aftermath, is giving "advice" to the GOP that kept her ass safe 8 years. That's rich.

Pelosi killed the GOP in California, she knows how to do it.

947 DistantThunder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:29:26pm

re: #923 Salamantis

Susan Collins nails it:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Excerpt:

There is no plausible scenario under which Republicans can grow into a majority while shrinking our ideological confines and continuing to retract into a regional party. Ideological purity is not the ticket back to the promised land of governing majorities — indeed, it was when we began to emphasize social issues to the detriment of some of our basic tenets as a party that we encountered an electoral backlash.

It is for this reason that we should heed the words of President Ronald Reagan, who urged, “We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ‘litmus test’ of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.” He continued, “As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement.”

I couldn’t agree more. We can’t continue to fold our philosophical tent into an umbrella under which only a select few are worthy to stand. Rather, we should view an expansion of diversity within the party as a triumph that will broaden our appeal. That is the political road map we must follow to victory.

RTWT

This is the promised land. Let's focus on the biggest of the big.

948 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:29:29pm

re: #908 Silvergirl

Do you ever feel a little sheepish when people around you are having solid political discourse and you're talking about crying in beer and peeing on walls and from speeding cars?

Feeling sheepish. :-)

Though I should at least tell the story of when my brother-in-law woke up and opened the closet door in the bedroom and peed all over my sister's shoes. First and last time for that one.

Mr. President, Bill Clinton peed his name in the snow again on the White House lawn.

"Well, I have more important issues to deal with at the moment"

But Mr. President, its in Michelle's hand writing.

949 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:29:44pm

Being contrary just for the sake of pissing off our opponents reeks of c*gnitoism.

950 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:30:04pm

re: #927 OldLineTexan

I am. And I have been doing it longer than Al Gore, too.

/Dad followed us around and switched off lights. The thermostat was guarded by winged demons with fangs like THIS!

Now I'm old and do the same to my kids.

My mother was a bathwater level fanatic. It was always too much, though she stopped short of bringing a ruler into the bathroom. Of course that usually makes a person rebel, so now it's bubble bath up to the neck for luxury's sake.

951 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:30:08pm

re: #942 UFO TOFU

I'll agree to a point. I believe you live in CA. Have you ever dealt with any of the zealots from our pollution agencies?

Oh, yes. And you use the exact word - zealots.

Frightening people!

952 ConservatismNow!  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:30:14pm

re: #945 Soona'

I'm a HE! I'm a HE!

No, you'll be female and like it.

953 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:30:55pm

re: #724 goddessoftheclassroom

Doesn't AGW stand for Anthropogenic Global Warning and thus mean "man made?"

goddessoftheclassroom -

Yes it does, and it does exist, AND if a large Volcano erupted, it would make AGW look like a drop in the Ocean. That is my point. Keeping emissions down is the right thing to do to "Keep Earth Tidy," so long as humanity and living standards are not crushed in the process, that is "Conservation" at one time referred to as "Good Stewardship." The opposite is crushing mankind and returning the Earth to Nature, red in tooth and claw, IOW, Suicide.

-S-

954 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:31:08pm

re: #945 Soona'

I'm a HE! I'm a HE!

whatever...btw, who does your nails?

955 Bloodnok  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:31:16pm

re: #932 Sharmuta

She said it because it's reverse psychology. She's hoping we reject this idea simply because she was the one who said it.

Aha!

956 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:31:34pm

I don't know about AGW, but I do know that my kids leave the doors hanging open in the summer, attempting to cause Yard-Apogenic Global Cooling.

957 JCM  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:31:48pm

re: #942 UFO TOFU

I'll agree to a point. I believe you live in CA. Have you ever dealt with any of the zealots from our pollution agencies?

WA is pretty bad too.

Couple of years ago a woman who's property includes a creek and adjoins a road cleaned up her creek. Folks would toss crap from the road into the creek.

She hired a crew, pulled one abandoned car, a bunch of appliances and literally tons of tires out of the creek.

What did she get for her efforts?

A $20,000 fine from the State for disturbing a wet land.

958 Dianna  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:31:50pm

I'm out.

I'll be gone for a couple weeks. I'm able to check email, though, so my readers can send me their comments.

959 jcbunga  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:31:50pm

re: #125 alegrias

* * * *
Extremist. You are factually incorrect.

There are more than one on each side trying hard to do the right thing.

Your extreme all-or-nothing thinking is not helpful.

No, their failure is not helping. The best--the VERY best--that can be said about any of them is that they have failed. Where's the border fence? Where's the energy independence? Where's the Congressional Gymnasium...oh wait, they have that.

They have all failed.

960 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:01pm

re: #890 DistantThunder

People cannot become neurotic (excessive negative reaction) about Republican issues for membership. Some of us have deal breaker issues like abortion. But to create a litmus test that requires 7-10 areas of agreement, just isn't reasonable.

Specter's backstabbing association with the Democrats on the most sensitive core issue of fiscal discipline seems like a deal breaker.

Deal breakers for me:
I want to be safe in my home, and in my country via a strong defense, and strong support for the rule of law.
I want a free market economy via low taxes that regulates safety issues.
I want my rights protected as described in the constitution.

I prefer a pro-life president, but not one that is prepared to dismantle Roe v Wade and unleash the vengence of the left.

Everything else is negotiable.

* * * * *
Excellent adult winning formula advice

961 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:09pm

re: #958 Dianna

I'm out.

I'll be gone for a couple weeks. I'm able to check email, though, so my readers can send me their comments.

We'll miss you!

962 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:18pm

re: #908 Silvergirl

Do you ever feel a little sheepish when people around you are having solid political discourse and you're talking about crying in beer and peeing on walls and from speeding cars?

Feeling sheepish. :-)

Though I should at least tell the story of when my brother-in-law woke up and opened the closet door in the bedroom and peed all over my sister's shoes. First and last time for that one.

Oh my! I've been here for at least 12 hours on the deck watching construction workers tear apart my house..And I've just had a good time..So no I'm not feeling sheepish over a serious political discourse. Sorry..
But since Charles brought up science on this thread..( Charles Rocks)
Lets talk about binary black holes and the effects on Gravitational waves..
Read this:
[Link: coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com...]
I'll grab another beer and be right back..

963 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:21pm

re: #956 OldLineTexan

I don't know about AGW, but I do know that my kids leave the doors hanging open in the summer, attempting to cause Yard-Apogenic Global Cooling.

you need to beat children mercilessly...nothing else works

964 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:23pm

re: #923 Salamantis

Wow. Thanks for that. This is the third time today I've heard some heretofore unheard of (by me) Republicans talking sense and correctly identifying the issues. My fingers are crossed that they are not raving loons who will reveal themselves on a Beck-like show. I am encouraged that there ARE Republican voices speaking out. Now if they could just get their own crazies to STFU and remove them from the scene.

965 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:26pm

re: #946 alegrias

* * * *
Pelosi who says she slept through 9/11/01's aftermath, is giving "advice" to the GOP that kept her ass safe 8 years. That's rich.

Pelosi killed the GOP in California, she knows how to do it.

Gerrymandering did that. Republicans in CA haven't had representation in Sacramento for a long, long time.

966 brandon13  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:39pm

re: #934 TheMatrix31

Sane. But just because we both feel this way doesn't mean that idiots like Sheryl Crow can tell us we need to use three pieces of toilet paper per visit, and that pisses me off more than anything instead of wanting to help any issue that may or may not exist.

She can say whatever the hell she wants. It doesn't make me mad when an out of touch celebrity says something stupid.

I just laugh at it.

967 DistantThunder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:42pm
President Ronald Reagan, who urged, “We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ‘litmus test’ of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.” He continued, “As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement.”

Specter and Snow and Collins didn't pass muster on restrained government spending.

968 Salamantis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:32:53pm

re: #941 Slumbering Behemoth

In other words, "be more like the left".
/////

Well I, for one, am sick and tired of socon litmus tests reducing the Republican Big Tent to the circumference of a tropical drink paper umbrella!

969 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:33:13pm

re: #874 MacGregor

Good point. And it will probably change again and we'll go extinct like everything else. We can't capture a moment in chaos and make it last forever. That's not natural. Our only hope is to evolve with a constantly changing climate. The CO2 would rise if we were here or not.

I actually think that with our ability to see what's coming and prepare it would take something really sudden and really devastating to make man extinct.

I partly agree with the second part your statement, but the problem is that AGW may mean more rapid changes than normal, meaning a more injurious (for us) process of adaptation. We could be creating problems for ourselves that could have been avoided or at any rate reduced. I think we really need to work at getting off our reliance on fossil fuels. I wonder how long it would take to make fusion power a reality if it were pursued with the same urgency as the Manhattan project? And think of the side benefits for the economy, and of not having to smile through gritted teeth at the Saudis anymore?

970 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:33:16pm

re: #943 Nevergiveup

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea warned Wednesday it will fire an intercontinental ballistic missile — or even carry out another nuclear test — unless the U.N. apologizes for condemning the regime's April 5 rocket launch.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

How do you say "Blow me" in North Korean?

Kim's sharks are starving; he needs more UN drones to deliver strongly worded letters.

971 Spartacus50  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:33:28pm

If there ever was a litmus test to be applied to a candidate, it is where they stand on the issue of Global Warming. Any remedy to the supposed problem is completely detrimental to industry, the free market system and the economy as a whole. I see it no differently than Intelligent Design, Evangelism, or any other nonsensical belief system. It is simply a secular religion with an incredible marketing campaign.

972 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:33:44pm

re: #934 TheMatrix31

Sane. But just because we both feel this way doesn't mean that idiots like Sheryl Crow can tell us we need to use three pieces of toilet paper per visit, and that pisses me off more than anything instead of wanting to help any issue that may or may not exist.

THREE PIECES?

She'll get ONE, like the USMC, and she'll be GREATFUL FOR IT!

/

973 acwgusa  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:33:55pm

re: #946 alegrias

* * * *
Pelosi who says she slept through 9/11/01's aftermath, is giving "advice" to the GOP that kept her ass safe 8 years. That's rich.

Pelosi killed the GOP in California, she knows how to do it.

No, the GOP in CA killed the GOP in CA. We didn't need Pelosi's help.

974 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:34:24pm

re: #958 Dianna

I'm out.

I'll be gone for a couple weeks. I'm able to check email, though, so my readers can send me their comments.

Whatever is taking you away, I hope it's a successful venture.
Hurry back

975 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:34:24pm

re: #927 OldLineTexan

I am. And I have been doing it longer than Al Gore, too.

/Dad followed us around and switched off lights. The thermostat was guarded by winged demons with fangs like THIS!

Now I'm old and do the same to my kids.


LMAO! We must have had the same dad.

976 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:34:24pm

re: #958 Dianna

I'm out.

I'll be gone for a couple weeks. I'm able to check email, though, so my readers can send me their comments.

I hope you're going on a fun getaway, or you can at least put a bit of fun (which is not overrated) into whatever you're off to do.

977 TheMatrix31  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:34:25pm

re: #966 brandon13

She can say whatever the hell she wants. It doesn't make me mad when an out of touch celebrity says something stupid.

I just laugh at it.

Yes, Brandon, but she gets the idiotic message out into people's minds.

978 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:34:37pm

re: #958 Dianna

I'm out.

I'll be gone for a couple weeks. I'm able to check email, though, so my readers can send me their comments.

OK. Will you have the chance to respond to the 2nd draft of my story, if I get it to you while you're away?

979 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:34:46pm

re: #958 Dianna

Bye. Hurry back.

980 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:35:01pm

re: #968 Salamantis

Well I, for one, am sick and tired of socon litmus tests reducing the Republican Big Tent to the circumference of a tropical drink paper umbrella!

Nicely put. You do know I was being sarcastic with my earlier response, don't you?

981 MJ  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:35:33pm

re: #973 acwgusa

No, the GOP in CA killed the GOP in CA. We didn't need Pelosi's help.

Same in Illinois. The state GOP killed itself.

982 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:35:49pm

re: #973 acwgusa

Yep. We did it to ourselves.

983 itellu3times  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:35:51pm

re: #18 buzzsawmonkey

I'm running way behind on my LGF today, but I see bsm is covering the bases here, let me just add a big "what he said", and zang, back off LGF and into cubicle mode ...

984 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:36:03pm

re: #923 Salamantis

Susan Collins nails it:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Excerpt:

There is no plausible scenario under which Republicans can grow into a majority while shrinking our ideological confines and continuing to retract into a regional party. Ideological purity is not the ticket back to the promised land of governing majorities — indeed, it was when we began to emphasize social issues to the detriment of some of our basic tenets as a party that we encountered an electoral backlash.

It is for this reason that we should heed the words of President Ronald Reagan, who urged, “We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ‘litmus test’ of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.” He continued, “As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement.”

I couldn’t agree more. We can’t continue to fold our philosophical tent into an umbrella under which only a select few are worthy to stand. Rather, we should view an expansion of diversity within the party as a triumph that will broaden our appeal. That is the political road map we must follow to victory.

RTWT

But it is exactly the second paragraph that Sen. Sphincter voted against time after time after time. Good riddence to him or anyone else in the Repub. party that doesn't believe in those conservative, no, American basics of liberty and prosperity.

985 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:36:48pm

re: #945 Soona'

I'm a HE! I'm a HE!

OK Soono'

986 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:36:54pm

re: #971 Spartacus50

If there ever was a litmus test to be applied to a candidate, it is where they stand on the issue of Global Warming. Any remedy to the supposed problem is completely detrimental to industry, the free market system and the economy as a whole. I see it no differently than Intelligent Design, Evangelism, or any other nonsensical belief system. It is simply a secular religion with an incredible marketing campaign.

Have you paid attention to any of the science that has been posted here this afternoon, or are you just spouting off without any proof of you position. Because, up to this point, you seem to be ignoring any of the questions put to you.

If you haven't noticed, we discuss an issue, it's called dialog. We do that with comments, links, critical thinking skills, truth and very little hyperbole.

Try it.

987 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:37:31pm

To Jorline and nyc redneck:

I don't disagree with you guys that pelosi is being smug. I think she's being smug because she doesn't expect us to call her bluff, though.

988 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:38:23pm

re: #957 JCM

WA is pretty bad too.

Couple of years ago a woman who's property includes a creek and adjoins a road cleaned up her creek. Folks would toss crap from the road into the creek.

She hired a crew, pulled one abandoned car, a bunch of appliances and literally tons of tires out of the creek.

What did she get for her efforts?

A $20,000 fine from the State for disturbing a wet land.

Insane would be too mild a word here I think.
So I am gonna go with, F**king insane!

989 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:38:27pm

re: #987 Sharmuta

To Jorline and nyc redneck:

I don't disagree with you guys that pelosi is being smug. I think she's being smug because she doesn't expect us to call her bluff, though.

I don't want to see her buff!

990 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:38:39pm

re: #763 jorline

Pelosi offers advice to GOP voters


"Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness. This is not the Grand Old Party.”

Take your party back, Nancy. The party of Truman and JFK no longer exists.
The neo-socialist-democrat-progressive left consists of a party of tax and spend, control of the individual, corruption, on-the-take, industry killing big labor, a party that never stops vilifying the already over-taxed, a party addicted to the concept of wealth redistribution from the hard-working to the unproductive and ACORN so they can help you cheat to win. That's all I see.
yeah - the GOP needs to get its act together and shed some of the garbage but I'll take an imperfect GOP over the crap sandwich that is the modern left. (for now)

991 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:38:40pm

While I think this fits what is happening, I'm not so sure there is a "classified intelligence report" on it; take it with a 24 or 48 hour rule:
Report: Intelligence Warns Israel is now an ‘Obstacle to Obama'

According to a classified intelligence assessment handed to Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, U.S. President Barack Obama and his senior advisors wish to “incrementally diminish U.S. strategic cooperation with Israel.”

A report in World Tribune quoted an Israeli source familiar with the intelligence assessment who said that "Obama wants to make friends with our worst enemies and [those who were] until now the worst enemies of the United States. Under this policy,” the source added, “we are more than irrelevant. We have become an obstacle.”
"Obama will want to show Iran, Syria and radical Muslims that the United States could pressure Israel on a strategic level," the source said. "The pressure has already begun and will intensify throughout the next year or two."

At the same time, the intelligence officials estimated that Obama would restrict U.S. arms exports to Israel in an effort to deny it systems that it could use in a raid on Iran or Syria. The intelligence sources said this policy was begun during the last year of the Bush administration and predicted that it would intensify under Obama.

992 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:38:47pm

re: #987 Sharmuta

She thinks that republicans are dumb enough to fall for her trick, and I am beginning to think she may be right.

993 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:39:14pm

Air France crew refuse to board flight to Mexico

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Hey wanta have a good time. Sneak up behind a French person and yell "Hände hoch!" hands up in German.

994 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:39:15pm

re: #980 Slumbering Behemoth

Nicely put. You do know I was being sarcastic with my earlier response, don't you?

You? Be sarcastic? Perish the thought!

995 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:39:43pm

re: #967 DistantThunder

Specter and Snow and Collins didn't pass muster on restrained government spending.

Distant Thunder -

Thank you. The 80% we agree upon makes us a Party. 100% agreement should have us seeking Psychiatric Assistance. That is all.

-S-

996 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:39:51pm

re: #948 DEZes

Mr. President, Bill Clinton peed his name in the snow again on the White House lawn.

"Well, I have more important issues to deal with at the moment"

But Mr. President, its in Michelle's hand writing.

OMG! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Need to do some serious cleanup on my monitor.

997 rightside  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:39:54pm

I can certainly understand that the rudderless GOP should stop being the party of no (although they shouldn't say yes to anything the dems propose).

Compromise though? To what extent?

OK dems, we'll vote for TARP II, but instead of 1.5 trillion, we'll compromise and only spend 1.3 trillion of the next generations money now, until TARP III comes out. Next fiscal budget, we'll compromise and spend only 4 trillion, instead of 5.

998 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:40:17pm

re: #990 FrogMarch

Take your party back, Nancy. The party of Truman and JFK no longer exists.

ZING!

999 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:40:33pm

re: #957 JCM

WA is pretty bad too.

Couple of years ago a woman who's property includes a creek and adjoins a road cleaned up her creek. Folks would toss crap from the road into the creek.

She hired a crew, pulled one abandoned car, a bunch of appliances and literally tons of tires out of the creek.

What did she get for her efforts?

A $20,000 fine from the State for disturbing a wet land.

That is so much bullshit. I remember when I moved to Puyallup years ago, they showed me a place that fronted onto a small marshy area. The gal showing me was all excited about it being a wetland. I told her that we used to call that a swamp. And we'd drain it. Today if you try to do that the almighty federal government descends on your ass.

1000 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:40:42pm

re: #952 ConservatismNow!

No, you'll be female and like it.

So do I get really big boobs?
//

1001 Dirty Patriot  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:40:46pm

I'm late to the party, as usual.

I agree with Huntsman (and Charles) when they say that someone needs to actually put forth some plans before they just shoot down they other side all day, as the Dems did with the last admin, but...

Trying to prop up a "moderate conservative" as one of the sane ones who was voted in because of his ideals doesn't hold water with me. Huntsman was elected by a large margin for one reason: There weren't any other reasonable choices.

Don't portray him as a champion of Utah, he was simply the lesser of two evils, as is the case with most "moderates" when you are talking about who true conservatives vote for. Gay marriage and green fascism won't fly under our flag no matter how many Huntsmans you see in office.

1002 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:41:00pm

re: #923 Salamantis

Susan Collins nails it:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Excerpt:

There is no plausible scenario under which Republicans can grow into a majority while shrinking our ideological confines and continuing to retract into a regional party. Ideological purity is not the ticket back to the promised land of governing majorities — indeed, it was when we began to emphasize social issues to the detriment of some of our basic tenets as a party that we encountered an electoral backlash.

It is for this reason that we should heed the words of President Ronald Reagan, who urged, “We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ‘litmus test’ of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.” He continued, “As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement.”

I couldn’t agree more. We can’t continue to fold our philosophical tent into an umbrella under which only a select few are worthy to stand. Rather, we should view an expansion of diversity within the party as a triumph that will broaden our appeal. That is the political road map we must follow to victory.

RTWT

* * * * *
Susan Collins voted FOR porkulus without reading it.
Like Arlen Specter.
Like Olympia Snowe.

Doesn't strike me as smart.

Ignorance of the bailout is bliss! Look at Specter now, right hand to President Obama.

1003 brandon13  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:41:02pm

re: #977 TheMatrix31

Yes, Brandon, but she gets the idiotic message out into people's minds.

Maybe, but there aren't that many people who are going to use three pieces of toilet paper because some shitty, hypocritical singer told them to.

1004 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:41:18pm

re: #1000 Soona'

So do I get really big boobs?
//

How big are your shoes?

1005 Salamantis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:41:25pm

What I find hilarious is that so many Republican purists were screaming at Specter "Leave our party, f*ckin' RINO!" And now they act so pissed and betrayed when he notes their hostility and takes their advice...

1006 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:41:44pm

re: #994 Sharmuta

I know, no one expects it from me, a guy who is usually more sober and conservative of thought and commentary than even W.F. Buckley.

/need I?

1007 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:41:58pm

re: #992 Slumbering Behemoth

She thinks that republicans are dumb enough to fall for her trick, and I am beginning to think she may be right.

What is the trick? Just jumping back in so I may have missed the reference to it.

1008 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:42:00pm

re: #991 Kosh's Shadow

That sure frightens the hell out of me.

1009 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:42:06pm

re: #969 Jimmah

Agree getting off oil is a great goal. It seems the administration is insincere on this point as the administration uses liberty controlling measures rather than building nuclear energy plants.

1010 Truck Monkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:42:26pm

re: #943 Nevergiveup

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea warned Wednesday it will fire an intercontinental ballistic missile — or even carry out another nuclear test — unless the U.N. apologizes for condemning the regime's April 5 rocket launch.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

How do you say "Blow me" in North Korean?

Arec Baldwin.

/said in my best Korean pigeon engrish

1011 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:42:30pm

re: #997 rightside

I can certainly understand that the rudderless GOP should stop being the party of no (although they shouldn't say yes to anything the dems propose).

Compromise though? To what extent?

OK dems, we'll vote for TARP II, but instead of 1.5 trillion, we'll compromise and only spend 1.3 trillion of the next generations money now, until TARP III comes out. Next fiscal budget, we'll compromise and spend only 4 trillion, instead of 5.

I don't think that's fair, as Governor Huntsman is a fiscal conservative who has cut takes and spending in Utah. I highly doubt he'd advocate republicans voting for TARP.

1012 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:42:44pm

re: #1003 brandon13

Maybe, but there aren't that many people who are going to use three pieces of toilet paper because some shitty, hypocritical singer told them to.

Would it be proper to use her cd's in lieu of toilet paper?
No sarc.

1013 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:43:12pm

re: #996 Russkilitlover

I am sending help for the monitor clean up. ;)

1014 UFO TOFU  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:43:18pm

re: #957 JCM

That makes my head hurt. I didn't think any state could hold a candle to CA (although I'm in a fairly regulated business). I learn something every day.

1015 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:43:31pm

re: #1002 alegrias

* * * * *
Susan Collins voted FOR porkulus without reading it.
Like Arlen Specter.
Like Olympia Snowe.

Doesn't strike me as smart.

Ignorance of the bailout is bliss! Look at Specter now, right hand to President Obama.

This is true, but you know the broken clock thing, and I believe the part about the shrinking tent to have some substance.

1016 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:44:02pm

re: #948 DEZes

Mr. President, Bill Clinton peed his name in the snow again on the White House lawn.

"Well, I have more important issues to deal with at the moment"

But Mr. President, its in Michelle's hand writing.

LOL
See how lucky we are? If Hillary would have won the Election then all day long we have had Bill Clinton walking around the White House with His Robe wide open drinking beer and hitting on the interns...

1017 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:44:12pm

re: #1007 LGoPs

As Sharmuta has pointed out, it sounds like an attempt at reverse psychology.

1018 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:45:33pm

re: #1016 HoosierHoops

LOL
See how lucky we are? If Hillary would have won the Election then all day long we have had Bill Clinton walking around the White House with His Robe wide open drinking beer and hitting on the interns...

They'd have to cover the eyes of all the Presidential Portraits, except for his of course.

1019 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:45:43pm

Pelosi is using mind control from the TV box to brainwash us into ignoring the true wisdom of Glenn Beck's tears! If we don't resist now they'll use the DHS memo to put as all in FEMA camps. WE must Tea Party even harder now! The end is near!
/Ron Paul

1020 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:45:50pm

re: #986 Walter L. Newton

we discuss an issue, it's called dialog. We do that with comments, links, critical thinking skills, truth and very little hyperbole

Well, where's the fun in THAT?
/

I came here for an argument!
No, you came here for an argument.

1021 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:46:12pm

re: #990 FrogMarch

"Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness. This is not the Grand Old Party.”

Take your party back, Nancy. The party of Truman and JFK no longer exists.
The neo-socialist-democrat-progressive left consists of a party of tax and spend, control of the individual, corruption, on-the-take, industry killing big labor, a party that never stops vilifying the already over-taxed, a party addicted to the concept of wealth redistribution from the hard-working to the unproductive and ACORN so they can help you cheat to win. That's all I see.
yeah - the GOP needs to get its act together and shed some of the garbage but I'll take an imperfect GOP over the crap sandwich that is the modern left. (for now)

* * * *
STANDING "0"!

1022 Bubblehead II  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:46:40pm

re: #913 Dianna

Everyone except those evilcorporate executives intent on raping the earth for their personal gain.

/ Channeling moonbat enviromentalist

1023 Salamantis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:47:52pm

re: #1017 Slumbering Behemoth

As Sharmuta has pointed out, it sounds like an attempt at reverse psychology.

As in "I'll give them some really good advice, figuring that they'll shaft themselves by doing just the opposite, because the advice came from from me."

1024 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:47:54pm

re: #1003 brandon13

Maybe, but there aren't that many people who are going to use three pieces of toilet paper because some shitty, hypocritical singer told them to.

Wanna bet. Look at her fans to see which ones walk funny--like something's stuck in their pants. Just don't shake hands with them--or let them touch your food.

1026 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:03pm

CAIRO (AP) - Egypt began slaughtering the roughly 300,000 pigs in the country Wednesday as a precautionary measure against the spread of swine flu even though no cases have been reported here yet, the Health Ministry said.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Maybe if we tell them there is a "tank" flu, they'll destroy their armored force?

1027 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:11pm

re: #1023 Salamantis

As in "I'll give them some really good advice, figuring that they'll shaft themselves by doing just the opposite, because the advice came from from me."

Exactly!

1028 Tamron  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:30pm

re: #890 DistantThunder

Deal breakers for me:
I want to be safe in my home, and in my country via a strong defense, and strong support for the rule of law.
I want a free market economy via low taxes that regulates safety issues.
I want my rights protected as described in the constitution.
I prefer a pro-life president, but not one that is prepared to dismantle Roe v Wade and unleash the vengence of the left.
Everything else is negotiable.

You've pretty much described life in Alaska today. No problemo.
.

1029 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:32pm

re: #1020 calcajun

Well, where's the fun in THAT?
/

I came here for an argument!
No, you came here for an argument.


That's not an argument. That's merely equivocation.

/

1030 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:36pm

re: #1025 Sharmuta

Somewhere in the world, there is a clothing designer that should be shot.

You do know he has a drinking problem?

1031 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:45pm

re: #1001 Dirty Patriot

I'm late to the party, as usual.

I agree with Huntsman (and Charles) when they say that someone needs to actually put forth some plans before they just shoot down they other side all day, as the Dems did with the last admin, but...

Trying to prop up a "moderate conservative" as one of the sane ones who was voted in because of his ideals doesn't hold water with me. Huntsman was elected by a large margin for one reason: There weren't any other reasonable choices.

Don't portray him as a champion of Utah, he was simply the lesser of two evils, as is the case with most "moderates" when you are talking about who true conservatives vote for. Gay marriage and green fascism won't fly under our flag no matter how many Huntsmans you see in office.

Kind of like in another election we had. Oh yeah. The GOP 2008 pres. candidate. But, alas. He lost. So goes it with moderates.

1032 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:50pm

re: #1017 Slumbering Behemoth

As Sharmuta has pointed out, it sounds like an attempt at reverse psychology.

I don't think Pelosi is that calculating or that smart. I think she's stating a very obvious fact that conservatives can't see because of some knee jerk instincts. The solution and the problem is glaringly obvious to anyone who can read the DHS memo and not feel persecuted.

1033 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:48:53pm
1034 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:49:16pm

re: #1025 Sharmuta

Somewhere in the world, there is a clothing designer that should be shot.

Mommy, the clown's red nose fell off!

1035 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:49:21pm

Pelosi is a gorgon

1036 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:49:47pm

re: #995 Dr. Shalit

Distant Thunder -

Thank you. The 80% we agree upon makes us a Party. 100% agreement should have us seeking Psychiatric Assistance. That is all.

-S-

* * * *
GOP is not immune from people who "just want to be me" and be "unique" on their single issues. Maverick! That'll work!

The way to win is to be a team that agrees on certain things, and negotiates the rest.

1037 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:49:50pm

re: #1005 Salamantis

What I find hilarious is that so many Republican purists were screaming at Specter "Leave our party, f*ckin' RINO!" And now they act so pissed and betrayed when he notes their hostility and takes their advice...

Specter is a self serving bastard. he brought the criticism on himself by sticking it in his party's eye over the budget vote. What the hell did he expect? To be named minority leader?
And now he is petulantly changing parties and altering the balance of power in the Congress - effectively giving the democrats a filibuster proof majority. He is pulling a Jim Jeffords who did a similar act back at the beginning of Bush's temr IIRC.
Jeffords has become a footnote in the history books and Specter deserves no better. If he expects to be welcomed with open arms by the democratic electorate, I hope he is sorely disappointed. Nobody respects a turncoat.

1038 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:50:01pm

re: #1033 DEZes

He stole some clown's pant!

Pants, PIMF

1039 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:50:04pm

re: #1025 Sharmuta

My EYES! Another image seared, seared mind you, into my memory!

1040 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:50:18pm

re: #1032 Killgore Trout

I don't think Pelosi is that calculating or that smart. I think she's stating a very obvious fact that conservatives can't see because of some knee jerk instincts. The solution and the problem is glaringly obvious to anyone who can read the DHS memo and not feel persecuted.

But Rahm Emmanuel said the same thing a couple weeks back. I think it will be their new talking point in the hopes we won't listen to them. I think we should take it at face value, because the simple fact of the matter is they're not wrong.

1041 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:50:31pm

re: #998 Sharmuta

ZING!

WEEE! Zings are nice. Thank you.

1042 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:50:33pm

re: #1012 LGoPs

Would it be proper to use her cd's in lieu of toilet paper?
No sarc.

Here's an excerpt from a Sheryl Crow song; I think it was one of those bonus songs you get if you listen through 5 or 6 minutes of silence in the last track. It's clearly talking about the hub-bub about Clinton and the way he disgraced himself and the presidency with his antics. Funny, though, I didn't hear this sentiment when it was Bush being assaulted by the media...

Allegations
Interrogations
Investigations
Then more taxation
National past time is aggrivation
I think I'll move out to a desert isle
Just for a while

To avoid all that's distracting
Like newspapers and magazines
Insipid propagandizing
To tell me what a loser I've elected
But you've neglected to tell the truth
That your politics is tied around his foot
And we too are dangling

1043 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:50:43pm

re: #1034 OldLineTexan

Mommy, the clown's red nose fell off!

That's not his nose, dear. Don't touch it.

1044 J.D.  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:51:20pm

re: #1025 Sharmuta

Somewhere in the world, there is a clothing designer that should be shot.

He's not looking for attention...
Noooooooooooo.

1045 rightside  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:51:51pm

re: #1011 Sharmuta

I was referring to the current lot of congressman. I would openly welcome any fiscal conservative into congress.

1046 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:51:54pm

re: #1009 MacGregor

Agree getting off oil is a great goal. It seems the administration is insincere on this point as the administration uses liberty controlling measures rather than building nuclear energy plants.

I don't think there are many politicians who really take this seriously ie as something more than a political football.

1047 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:51:58pm

re: #1025 Sharmuta

Somewhere in the world, there is a clothing designer that should be shot.

Wow, he's really dropped some weight. I wonder if he's finally getting his sh*t together?

1048 UFO TOFU  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:52:14pm

re: #1030 Nevergiveup

A drinker with a golfing problem?

1049 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:52:21pm

re: #1002 alegrias

* * * * *
Susan Collins voted FOR porkulus without reading it.
Like Arlen Specter.
Like Olympia Snowe.

Doesn't strike me as smart.

Ignorance of the bailout is bliss! Look at Specter now, right hand to President Obama.

Oh, dear. Maybe she has severe buyers' remorse and has had an epiphany.

1050 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:52:25pm

Charles is stuck in traffic with a sack of tacos

1051 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:52:36pm

I have to reluctantly take my leave, and hope to stop by tonight.

1052 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:52:39pm

re: #1037 LGoPs

Specter is a self serving bastard. he brought the criticism on himself by sticking it in his party's eye over the budget vote. What the hell did he expect? To be named minority leader?
And now he is petulantly changing parties and altering the balance of power in the Congress - effectively giving the democrats a filibuster proof majority. He is pulling a Jim Jeffords who did a similar act back at the beginning of Bush's temr IIRC.
Jeffords has become a footnote in the history books and Specter deserves no better. If he expects to be welcomed with open arms by the democratic electorate, I hope he is sorely disappointed. Nobody respects a turncoat.

Mostly agree, except for the bit about Spector's departure shifting the balance of power. It didn't change anything. Spector - and others - were already crossing the aisle, and the GOP never held that filibuster bloc in any meaningful sense.

The only difference now is that things are more out in the open.

1053 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:52:46pm

re: #1041 FrogMarch

I thought it was a great comeback. It's true! They should take their own advice, except for the fact they're in power and don't see the need to do so.

1054 Truck Monkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:52:51pm

re: #1025 Sharmuta

Somewhere in the world, there is a clothing designer that should be shot.

HE, and 35 other golfers all got out of the same car to check in for their round. It was a riot!

1055 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:53:08pm

re: #1050 albusteve

Charles is stuck in traffic with a sack of tacos

Tacos rule!

1056 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:53:09pm

re: #923 Salamantis

Susan Collins nails it:

It is for this reason that we should heed the words of President Ronald Reagan, who urged, “We should emphasize the things that unite us and make these the only ‘litmus test’ of what constitutes a Republican: our belief in restraining government spending, pro-growth policies, tax reduction, sound national defense, and maximum individual liberty.” He continued, “As to the other issues that draw on the deep springs of morality and emotion, let us decide that we can disagree among ourselves as Republicans and tolerate the disagreement.”

Coming from one of the yea votes on the Porkulus, Collins's yapping is equivalent to the bark of a toothless chihuahua.

Collins is interested in remaining a member in good standing of this nation's political class. She has not the least interest in individual liberty for anyone else; nor in growth in the private sector (as opposted to the too-big-to-fail businesses) nor in reducing government spending. "Fiscal conservative" to the likes of her means raising taxes to pay for the boondoggles her Democratic congressmen dream up.

It is not about social issues with Collins. Remember that. "Social issues" gives her cover to continue her fiscal betrayal of the Republican base, whom she despises.

1058 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:53:49pm

well then I'll do it...some chick blues

1059 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:05pm

re: #1005 Salamantis

What I find hilarious is that so many Republican purists were screaming at Specter "Leave our party, f*ckin' RINO!" And now they act so pissed and betrayed when he notes their hostility and takes their advice...

* * * * *
He was once a Democrat, and is now again. With President Obama's heavy lifting, Specter can stay in the SENATE and keep his perks.

1060 J.D.  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:16pm

re: #1057 Shug

This is worse

I wouldn't have thought it possible.

1061 MacGregor  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:20pm

re: #585 cliffster

Why Venus is hot.

1062 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:25pm

re: #1057 Shug

This is worse

Damn you! *shakes fist*

But give Shug Jr. a kiss from Auntie Shar, please.

1063 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:27pm

re: #1057 Shug

This is worse

Wasn't that the day some Greenpeace folks grabbed him, dragged him down to the beach and attempted to set him free? Awkward.

1064 Truck Monkey  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:32pm

re: #1026 Nevergiveup

CAIRO (AP) - Egypt began slaughtering the roughly 300,000 pigs in the country Wednesday as a precautionary measure against the spread of swine flu even though no cases have been reported here yet, the Health Ministry said.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Maybe if we tell them there is a "tank" flu, they'll destroy their armored force?

Israel can do it quicker, and more effeciently.

1065 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:32pm

re: #1057 Shug

This is worse

It looks like something Disney illustrated over Rabbit's fireplace.

1066 rightside  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:54:45pm

re: #1057 Shug

There be whales, captain!

1067 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:55:00pm

re: #1057 Shug

This is worse

That sir should have a warning label. ;)

1068 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:55:17pm

re: #1026 Nevergiveup

CAIRO (AP) - Egypt began slaughtering the roughly 300,000 pigs in the country Wednesday as a precautionary measure against the spread of swine flu even though no cases have been reported here yet, the Health Ministry said.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Maybe if we tell them there is a "tank" flu, they'll destroy their armored force?

Someone really ought to let PETA know about this...

Next time, let's call it the "Palestinian Flu."

1069 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:55:32pm

re: #1063 calcajun

Wasn't that the day some Greenpeace folks grabbed him, dragged him down to the beach and attempted to set him free? Awkward.

Especially when you cleaned his "blowhole". I have never seen anyone that upset.

/

1070 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:55:32pm

re: #1026 Nevergiveup

CAIRO (AP) - Egypt began slaughtering the roughly 300,000 pigs in the country Wednesday as a precautionary measure against the spread of swine flu even though no cases have been reported here yet, the Health Ministry said.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Maybe if we tell them there is a "tank" flu, they'll destroy their armored force?

* * * * *
Only Christians in Egypt own pigs, so this wipes them all out. Niiiiiiiice. Ignorant & prejudiced.

1071 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:55:39pm

re: #1067 DEZes

That sir should have a warning label. ;)

Well- he did say it was worse, which was true.

1072 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:55:45pm

re: #1066 rightside

There be whales, captain!

Somebody push him back in the water.

1073 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:55:51pm

JOHNSTOWN, Pa. -- At the behest of Rep. John P. Murtha (D), chairman of the House defense appropriations subcommittee, the Pentagon has spent about $30 million equipping a little-used airport named for the congressman so that it can handle behemoth military aircraft and store combat equipment for rapid deployment to foreign battlefields.

Most of the expensive improvements, funded through appropriations approved by Murtha's committee, have not been used for their intended purpose. The projects delighted National Guard and reserve units based in Murtha's Pennsylvania district who have suffered from budget cuts, but critics charge that the expenditures are a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Murtha and other supporters say the upgrades make the airport a critical backup if a military crisis or terrorist attack ever derails operations at the Pittsburgh International Airport two hours away.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I wasn't aware Pittsburgh "International" Airport was a first strike target?

1074 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:56:23pm

re: #1040 Sharmuta

I think we should take it at face value, because the simple fact of the matter is they're not wrong.


Agreed.

1075 Tamron  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:56:41pm

re: #1026 Nevergiveup

CAIRO (AP) - Egypt began slaughtering the roughly 300,000 pigs in the country Wednesday as a precautionary measure against the spread of swine flu even though no cases have been reported here yet, the Health Ministry said.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Maybe if we tell them there is a "tank" flu, they'll destroy their armored force?

How's about calling it the JIHADI FLU?

(oink)
.

1076 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:56:44pm

re: #1055 OldLineTexan

Tacos rule!

they do...I had the best tacos known to Man a coupla days ago....Chimayo NM...el Paragua...OMG tacos bro

1077 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:56:49pm

re: #1066 rightside

There be whales, captain!

There's yer long-term energy solution. Rend his blubber down at once!

1078 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:56:52pm

re: #1063 calcajun

Wasn't that the day some Greenpeace folks grabbed him, dragged him down to the beach and attempted to set him free? Awkward.

"Somebody get a bucket! Keep his skin wet!"

1079 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:56:58pm

Way OT:
Hey guys! What do you think?
I say "You can keep it!"...might catch that swine-like flu or somethin'............

1080 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:03pm

re: #1023 Salamantis

As in "I'll give them some really good advice, figuring that they'll shaft themselves by doing just the opposite, because the advice came from from me."

i don't think she has even thought it thru that far or even cares.
i think she is lecturing conservatives because she is feeling her power.
i think she is being obnoxious.
she is so confident at this point she doesn't even see us as a threat no matter what we do or don't do.
she is being a b*tch. that's all.
imho.

1081 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:04pm

re: #1073 Nevergiveup

Boy, Pennsylvania and New York ... I ain't sayin' Jeff Davis was right, mind you ...

//////

1082 Spartacus50  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:14pm

re: #986 Walter L. Newton

Have you paid attention to any of the science that has been posted here this afternoon, or are you just spouting off without any proof of you position. Because, up to this point, you seem to be ignoring any of the questions put to you.

If you haven't noticed, we discuss an issue, it's called dialog. We do that with comments, links, critical thinking skills, truth and very little hyperbole.

Try it.

Spare me, science guy. One volcanic eruption is capable of spewing far more pollutants and aerosols into the upper atmosphere than humans ever could. Since most evidence of global warming is based largely on anecdotal evidence, I will use some of my own. After Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Phillipines, it altered the worldwide climate considerably (it got cooler) for many months to come. It was noticeable to me where I was living and we were treated to beautiful sunsets too. A similar phenomenon was reported to have happened after the eruption of Krakatoa due to all the matter ejected into the upper atmosphere.
In summary, our existence here is strictly one of chance. To think that we have "control" over the atmosphere is simply hubris.

1083 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:15pm

re: #1071 Sharmuta

Well- he did say it was worse, which was true.

You have any eye bleach I can borrow?

1084 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:20pm

re: #1047 cliffster

Wow, he's really dropped some weight. I wonder if he's finally getting his sh*t together?

I'll give him his due..For all John's faults..and there are many..
When he won the US Open many years ago.. a golf fan was killed by lighting on the course.. John paid the college tuition for both of his daughters.. One young lady is now a doctor...No matter what you think of Dailey..He is a good but troubled man...May God bless him and bring him peace..He is a troubled man

1085 UFO TOFU  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:34pm

re: #1069 OldLineTexan

Not cool, dude. Coffee exiting one's nostrils at the office isn't good.

1086 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:41pm

A quick skim of the right wing blogs shows little sign of taking Pelosi's advice and stopping the insanity.

1087 sandspur  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:45pm

re: #972 OldLineTexan

THREE PIECES?

She'll get ONE, like the USMC, and she'll be GREATFUL FOR IT!

/

Eek! remind me not to shake hands with a Marine, I'll just salute!
8-)

1088 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:57:45pm

re: #1050 albusteve

Charles is stuck in traffic with a sack of tacos

Huh? Oh I get it, it's code.

The albatross is reclining.

1089 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:58:15pm

re: #903 Shug

Being a skeptic about AGW, doesn't mean you are in favor of trashing the earth or wasting resources.

I look at the great lakes carved out by Glaciers and I think there is a force larger than man which is calling the shots.

but I believe we should do everything in our power to protect nature and to keep the earth clean.

So what does that make me?

I describe myself as a conservationist. I love nature and the outdoors and I believe we have a responsibility to protect it, but I also believe we have the right to use it. So I'm okay with drilling in ANWR, which is pretty much wasteland, but I'd prefer not to do strip mining in Yosemite.

1090 Salamantis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:58:22pm

re: #1056 Zimriel

Coming from one of the yea votes on the Porkulus, Collins's yapping is equivalent to the bark of a toothless chihuahua.

Collins is interested in remaining a member in good standing of this nation's political class. She has not the least interest in individual liberty for anyone else; nor in growth in the private sector (as opposted to the too-big-to-fail businesses) nor in reducing government spending. "Fiscal conservative" to the likes of her means raising taxes to pay for the boondoggles her Democratic congressmen dream up.

It is not about social issues with Collins. Remember that. "Social issues" gives her cover to continue her fiscal betrayal of the Republican base, whom she despises.

So you disagree with her contention that we should heed Ronald Reagan's words; right? Even if she didn't...

1091 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:58:30pm

re: #1005 Salamantis

What I find hilarious is that so many Republican purists were screaming at Specter "Leave our party, f*ckin' RINO!" And now they act so pissed and betrayed when he notes their hostility and takes their advice...

LOL. I can so see that as a South Park scene.

1092 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:58:43pm

re: #1037 LGoPs

Specter is a self serving bastard. he brought the criticism on himself by sticking it in his party's eye over the budget vote. What the hell did he expect? To be named minority leader?
And now he is petulantly changing parties and altering the balance of power in the Congress - effectively giving the democrats a filibuster proof majority. He is pulling a Jim Jeffords who did a similar act back at the beginning of Bush's temr IIRC.
Jeffords has become a footnote in the history books and Specter deserves no better. If he expects to be welcomed with open arms by the democratic electorate, I hope he is sorely disappointed. Nobody respects a turncoat.

* * * *
DId you see Specter's 2001 statement after Jeffords switched parties? Specter wanted to BAN SWITCHES during sessions.

Specter was against switching, before he was for it.

1093 BlueCanuck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:59:12pm

re: #1025 Sharmuta

Somewhere in the world, there is a clothing designer that should be shot.

I think my monitor here at work just had a blow out.

/sunglasses, where did I put my sunglasses......

1094 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:59:50pm

re: #1087 sandspur

Eek! remind me not to shake hands with a Marine, I'll just salute!
8-)

You tear a little circle outta the middle ... like this ... save that ... stick your middle finger in there ... OK, done? Now take the little circle and clean under yer nail.

/Actual speech given to me by an actual Marine

1095 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:59:58pm

re: #1088 CyanSnowHawk

Huh? Oh I get it, it's code.

The albatross is reclining.

But the big cheese gets his at midnight before the salamander rests.

1096 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:00:25pm

re: #1040 Sharmuta

But Rahm Emmanuel said the same thing a couple weeks back. I think it will be their new talking point in the hopes we won't listen to them. I think we should take it at face value, because the simple fact of the matter is they're not wrong.

* * * * *
You are listening to & quoting ALL the Dem talking points, but none of the Republican ones, which you claim not to know about.

How odd.

1097 Salamantis  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:00:26pm

re: #1053 Sharmuta

I thought it was a great comeback. It's true! They should take their own advice, except for the fact they're in power and don't see the need to do so.

Yeah; once Republicans were in power, and didn't see the need to take our own advice, and look where it got us...

1098 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:00:32pm

re: #1088 CyanSnowHawk

Huh? Oh I get it, it's code.

The albatross is reclining.

"the cakes are on the griddle"

repeat

1099 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:00:52pm

re: #1092 alegrias

* * * *
DId you see Specter's 2001 statement after Jeffords switched parties? Specter wanted to BAN SWITCHES during sessions.

Specter was against switching, before he was for it.

Yes I heard it. He ought to have his face rubbed in those words.

1100 cliffster  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:00:56pm

re: #1084 HoosierHoops

I'll give him his due..For all John's faults..and there are many..
When he won the US Open many years ago.. a golf fan was killed by lighting on the course.. John paid the college tuition for both of his daughters.. One young lady is now a doctor...No matter what you think of Dailey..He is a good but troubled man...May God bless him and bring him peace..He is a troubled man

You're right for the most part. He never won the US Open; he won the PGA Championship and the British Open. It was when he won the PGA that the event you're talking about occurred. It was an incredible act of kindness.. good man at heart.

1101 Bubblehead II  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:01:08pm

Time to call it a night. An interesting day of semi-lurking.

Night.

1102 rightside  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:01:20pm

re: #1073 Nevergiveup

There are Steeler haters everywhere.

1103 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:01:39pm

re: #1102 rightside

There are Steeler haters everywhere.

/raises hand

1104 BlueCanuck  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:02:07pm

re: #1094 OldLineTexan

You tear a little circle outta the middle ... like this ... save that ... stick your middle finger in there ... OK, done? Now take the little circle and clean under yer nail.

/Actual speech given to me by an actual Marine

I actually heard that from a WW2 pilot talking about the army. More then two sheets and you were accused of buggering yourself.

/I think he was joking about that last bit....

1105 J.D.  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:02:32pm

re: #1084 HoosierHoops

I'll give him his due..For all John's faults..and there are many..
When he won the US Open many years ago.. a golf fan was killed by lighting on the course.. John paid the college tuition for both of his daughters.. One young lady is now a doctor...No matter what you think of Dailey..He is a good but troubled man...May God bless him and bring him peace..He is a troubled man

That is incredibly generous...
Do you know why he is so troubled?

1106 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:02:43pm

more...she rocks, and plays a mean guitar....get some Susan


1107 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:03:20pm

I guess this is what happens when you have criminals like Tom Delay , Wide Stance perverts like Craig and that kiddie fiddler what's his name, foley, and people who think the Earth is 6000 years old in charge of the GOP.

The GOP had a great chance but they totally blew it

and now what the country is left with is far far far worse.

thanks for nuttin

1108 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:02pm

re: #1100 cliffster

You're right for the most part. He never won the US Open; he won the PGA Championship and the British Open. It was when he won the PGA that the event you're talking about occurred. It was an incredible act of kindness.. good man at heart.


Sorry.You are right...My bad...

1109 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:05pm

re: #1103 OldLineTexan

/raises hand

there is at least one in NM

1110 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:06pm

re: #1040 Sharmuta

But Rahm Emmanuel said the same thing a couple weeks back. I think it will be their new talking point in the hopes we won't listen to them. I think we should take it at face value, because the simple fact of the matter is they're not wrong.

My problem is with the hypocrisy of her statement:
"Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness. This is not the Grand Old Party.”

Environment: yes the GOP should get on board with some of the philosophies of smart environmental policies. Although I'm not convinced the dems know what they are doing with respect the the environment. It's a talking point for them, mainly. The dems see everything through a prism of raising taxes and cutting their perceived demons off at the knee caps. (Oil, coal etc...) The GOP would be wise to take a more moderate stance and out-wit the dems at their own game. We must progress into a future that includes wind, solar and nuclear energy - some oil and a phase out of dirty coal. But not until we have what we need on-line.

Individual rights: The democrats do not see the individual - they see the collective. so what the hell is Nancy talking about? The GOP does need to work on the social-con stuff: standard gripes: keeping religion private and not shoving it into every political corner, keep creationism out of science class, understand that abortion will more than likely stay legal.

Party of fairness: Yeah - the dems are just so freaking fair.... with other peoples money. and lets not forget the fairness of Barney Frank, Franklin Raines, and Jamie Gorelick, Chris Dodd et al.. the dems say they want fairness, but it's just a deceptive empty talking point - all smoke and mirrors. No way in hell is Nancy Pelosi in change of a party that cares about fairness.

1111 SixDegrees  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:14pm

re: #1096 alegrias

* * * * *
You are listening to & quoting ALL the Dem talking points, but none of the Republican ones, which you claim not to know about.

How odd.

The only Republican talking point going around these days seem to be "Don't let it hit you on the way out."

Oh. And there's "I want failure."

Both, it turns out, from the same source.

1112 abbyadams  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:16pm

I (being of the science persuasion) have to go with agreeing with AGW. As Charles has stated elsewhere, studies are peer reviewed and then replicated. Yes, there are those that find results that conflict with a positive correlation. Most atmospheric/ecological studies have a huge number of confounding factors that just can't be controlled, which may alter the results (either significantly or not.) The bulk of the evidence is in favor of AGW. That may change as we continue to study it, but until it does, I have to go with its validity.

1113 J.D.  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:22pm

I'm not finding very many news articles about Pelosi's ... what word would be correct? ...
Oh, yes.
Lie.

1114 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:28pm

re: #1096 alegrias

* * * * *
You are listening to & quoting ALL the Dem talking points, but none of the Republican ones, which you claim not to know about.

How odd.

I'm not interested in republican talking points, I'm interested in republican proposals which, no- I haven't heard about despite the fact that 1) I've asked for anyone to show me (which you continue to not do) and 2) I'm reading a blog full of similarly minded conservatives. You would think I'd have seen something on republican proposals here, but I haven't.

I did read the GOP HQ proposal thing, but my take was it didn't go far enough. I was disappointed.

1115 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:04:29pm
1116 FrogMarch  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:06:17pm

re: #1110 FrogMarch

/rant off. ;-)
that was just a general rant- btw.

1117 Zimriel  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:06:29pm

re: #1090 Salamantis

So you disagree with her contention that we should heed Ronald Reagan's words; right? Even if she didn't...


You know me better than that, Sal.

Just so we are clear: I think that those words from her forked tongue cannot but be twisted. She is taking the opportunity to take shots at the Republicans, to remind the voters in her increasingly leftist home state that she is not like all those icky bible-thumpers elsewhere.

Again: if she was interested in fiscal policy, she would have voted that way. Since she is not interested in fiscal policy, there must be another motive. I submit that this motive is to bash Republicans and to raise her profile in her home state.

1118 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:06:29pm

re: #1105 J.D.

That is incredibly generous...
Do you know why he is so troubled?

There may be a 1000 articles in golf mags about his troubles..

1119 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:07:00pm

The White House rejected the notion of putting timelines on its engagement with Iran Wednesday and indicated that its efforts could take a significant amount of time.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Sure take your time. No rush. What could go wrong?

1120 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:07:35pm

re: #1115 Killgore Trout

They should have a nice, quiet campout in front of Bush's old ranch house.

1121 sandspur  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:09:51pm

re: #1094 OldLineTexan

You tear a little circle outta the middle ... like this ... save that ... stick your middle finger in there ... OK, done? Now take the little circle and clean under yer nail.

/Actual speech given to me by an actual Marine

That is way more than I ever needed to know!

1122 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:10:04pm

re: #1073 Nevergiveup

JOHNSTOWN, Pa. -- At the behest of Rep. John P. Murtha (D), chairman of the House defense appropriations subcommittee, the Pentagon has spent about $30 million equipping a little-used airport named for the congressman so that it can handle behemoth military aircraft and store combat equipment for rapid deployment to foreign battlefields.

Most of the expensive improvements, funded through appropriations approved by Murtha's committee, have not been used for their intended purpose. The projects delighted National Guard and reserve units based in Murtha's Pennsylvania district who have suffered from budget cuts, but critics charge that the expenditures are a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Murtha and other supporters say the upgrades make the airport a critical backup if a military crisis or terrorist attack ever derails operations at the Pittsburgh International Airport two hours away.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I wasn't aware Pittsburgh "International" Airport was a first strike target?

I didn't even figure it for a second or third strike target.

1123 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:10:05pm

re: #1097 Salamantis

Yeah; once Republicans were in power, and didn't see the need to take our own advice, and look where it got us...

* * * * *
Sure Pres. Bush had to deal with September 11, simultaneously create the Department of Homeland Security, fund two wars, rebuild the military Clinton let go, and shoulda slapped Democrats adding social entitlements and Republicans like Arlen Specter the Appropriations pig.

Not ALL Republicans went along with all the big spending.
MOST Republicans voted to fund our troops & defend our country.

We ought to give them and any Democrats credit for having done many things right.

1124 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:10:18pm

he ain't heavy...
he's my taco

1125 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:10:22pm

Where did everybody go? - Hello?!?

1126 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:10:47pm

re: #1115 Killgore Trout

NO WONDER OBAMA WAS ATTACKING THE TEA PARTIES: Hundreds of Tea Party Protesters Greet Obama in St. Louis. (video)

Frothing loons screaming at a helicopter.

Any idea who the crazy lady that was screaming into the hand held PA?

1127 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:10:55pm

re: #1121 sandspur

That is way more than I ever needed to know!

Some day, somewhere, perhaps in a truckstop bathroom way out in BFE, you will remember this lesson.

/

1128 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:11:06pm

re: #1125 callahan23

Where did everybody go? - Hello?!?

they are diggin Susan Tedeschi

1129 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:11:17pm

re: #1125 callahan23

Where did everybody go? - Hello?!?

It was getting kinda lonely. ;)

1130 screaming_eagle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:11:31pm

re: #1119 Nevergiveup

Sure take your time. No rush. What could go wrong?

Take time with Iran. Rush and sign a 800 billion pork bill with-out reading it.

Least their priorties are straight.

1131 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:11:32pm
WASHINGTON (CNN) — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi marked President Barack Obama’s 100th day in office with some unsolicited advice for Republican voters, telling them to “take back” their party.

The California Democrat offered her own analysis of the political environment for her political opponents, asserting Republicans across the country are more willing to work with Democrats than their leaders on Capitol Hill.

“Yes, there is — shall we say — a ‘radical right-wing’ element with whom they identify. But by and large, I say to Republicans in America: Take back your party. The party of protecting the environment. The party of individual rights. The party of fairness. This is not the Grand Old Party.”

This being said by the most radical, left wing speaker in the history of the House. Working for the most radical left wing President this country has ever elected.
Yes, I'm sure she has our best interests near the top of her list of things to do......
1) Ruin the country
2) Help the Republican Party
3) Get more eyedrops
4) Buy a new broom
/

1132 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:11:39pm

re: #1115 Killgore Trout

Nice little upside down Old Glory they have there. How many times have we seen that (and ridiculed it) when it was being done by lefty protesters?

1133 Wendya  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:12:08pm

re: #12 Charles

That's simply not true.

Science has become politicized. By both sides and that's a damned shame.

1134 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:12:12pm

re: #1130 screaming_eagle

Take time with Iran. Rush and sign a 800 billion pork bill with-out reading it.

Least their priorties are straight.


Iranians don't vote in American elections.

Simple.

He's already running for reelection

1135 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:12:23pm

re: #1126 Gus 802

No clue but she said something about the circle of god. Maybe some preacher or something.

1136 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:12:34pm

re: #1026 Nevergiveup

CAIRO (AP) - Egypt began slaughtering the roughly 300,000 pigs in the country Wednesday as a precautionary measure against the spread of swine flu even though no cases have been reported here yet, the Health Ministry said.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Maybe if we tell them there is a "tank" flu, they'll destroy their armored force?

Fucking idiots. The virus is not transmitted by pigs.

1137 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:12:46pm

I have my boooks
and my tacos to protect me...

1138 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:13:03pm

re: #1132 Slumbering Behemoth

Nice little upside down Old Glory they have there. How many times have we seen that (and ridiculed it) when it was being done by lefty protesters?

I don't know, but it's stupid.

The cops should "rescue" them based on their distress signal and charge 'em for it, too.

1139 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:13:19pm

re: #1136 Cato the Elder

Fucking idiots. The virus is not transmitted by pigs.

So if you are a Mexican citizen, or have recently traveled to Mexico I'd stay out of Saudi Arabia in case they figure that out

1140 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:13:40pm

re: #1128 albusteve

they are diggin Susan Tedeschi

Probably, 'n' dreamin' away.

1141 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:14:24pm

re: #1135 Killgore Trout

No clue but she said something about the circle of god. Maybe some preacher or something.

Thought I heard something like that.

Glenn Reynolds has jumped the shark.

1142 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:14:39pm

re: #1132 Slumbering Behemoth

Nice little upside down Old Glory they have there. How many times have we seen that (and ridiculed it) when it was being done by lefty protesters?

Nice catch. I'm so used to seeing it at protests that I didn't even notice.

1143 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:14:40pm

re: #1115 Killgore Trout

They did not look very frothy. Looked like a bunch PTA-types.

1144 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:14:41pm

re: #1136 Cato the Elder

Fucking idiots. The virus is not transmitted by pigs.

Unless you call people who don't wash their hands pigs........
/

1145 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:15:14pm

re: #1142 Killgore Trout

Nice catch. I'm so used to seeing it at protests that I didn't even notice.

At right-wing tea parties, or which?

1146 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:15:16pm

re: #1129 DEZes

It was getting kinda lonely. ;)

So lonely
So lonely
So lonely
So lonely

1147 screaming_eagle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:15:17pm

re: #1131 LGoPs

I'd personally buy her a new broom if she uses it to leave the country.

1148 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:15:46pm

I feel like I'm at an Alice in Wonderland tea party.

1149 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:15:46pm

re: #1129 DEZes

It was getting kinda lonely. ;)

Just listen to the voices in your head when that happens./

1150 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:16:25pm

re: #1114 Sharmuta

I'm not interested in republican talking points, I'm interested in republican proposals which, no- I haven't heard about despite the fact that 1) I've asked for anyone to show me (which you continue to not do) and 2) I'm reading a blog full of similarly minded conservatives. You would think I'd have seen something on republican proposals here, but I haven't.

I did read the GOP HQ proposal thing, but my take was it didn't go far enough. I was disappointed.

* * * * *
I don't need to show you Republican proposals. Others here have described them. No one owes you this information you won't bother to look up yourself. Somehow you get all the Democrats' big ideas just dandy. What kind of a self-respecting conservative has to be spoonfed? Did you miss the memo, the GOP lost, they don't have the microphone, they don't get to schedule witnesses, they don't control Congress.

When the GOP lost, it means individuals will have to do more ourselves to win in future. The road is uphill from here. You want spoonfed baby formula, you go democrat for a handout and a bailout.

1151 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:16:28pm

re: #1141 Gus 802

Thought I heard something like that.

Glenn Reynolds has jumped the shark.

"Circle of God"?

It's Muslim.

/

1152 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:16:33pm

re: #1149 calcajun

Just listen to the voices in your head when that happens./

Thats why they put me in this jacket to begin with.

1153 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:16:33pm

re: #1148 Sharmuta

I know what you mean. If that rabbit touches me there again, things are gonna get nasty.

1154 screaming_eagle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:16:42pm

re: #1134 Shug

Iranians don't vote in American elections.

Simple.

He's already running for reelection

He has plans to change that. Didn't he campaign in Germany? How electoral votes does Germany have?

1155 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:16:51pm

re: #1148 Sharmuta

I feel like I'm at an Alice in Wonderland tea party.

CHANGE PLACES!

/Arlen Specter as the Mad Hatter

1156 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:16:52pm

taco taco man
I want to be a taco man

1157 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:17:19pm

re: #1115 Killgore Trout

NO WONDER OBAMA WAS ATTACKING THE TEA PARTIES: Hundreds of Tea Party Protesters Greet Obama in St. Louis. (video)

Frothing loons screaming at a helicopter.

I am conservative woman hear me shriek right into your earhole with a big f*ing megaphone.

1158 Russkilitlover  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:17:20pm

re: #1137 albusteve

I have my boooks
and my tacos to protect me...

There is a Mexican grocery store in my town. On the weekends they grill in the parking lot - carne asada tacos, oh my yum. Very simple, just a soft corn tortilla warmed on the grill, carne asada, cilantro, onion, dollop of their terrific salsa and spritzed with lime. Buck each. Oh so good!

Damn it! Now I'm hungry!

1159 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:17:24pm

re: #1142 Killgore Trout

It's a particular pet peeve of mine, and tends to frost my ass. I don't like it when lefties do it, and I like it even less when so called "conservatives" do it.

I guess this particular group didn't get the "let's not be like the left" memo.

1160 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:17:46pm

re: #1152 DEZes

Thats why they put me in this jacket to begin with.

How do you type then? Voice activated? ;-)

1161 Wendya  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:17:49pm

re: #1143 calcajun

They did not look very frothy. Looked like a bunch PTA-types.

The only protesters the right is allowed are the ones wearing suits who protest in the voting booth.

This whole idea that the republican party should somehow control the thoughts and actions of everyone to the right of Mao is absurd. But hey, if someone wants to become a democrat and support Obama because a few people on the right are acting a little flaky, the left can have them.

1162 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:17:54pm

re: #1141 Gus 802

It's really sad. I stopped reading him when he posted some financial doomsday stuff from some nut from Lew Rockwell's blog about a month ago. I always found him reasonable. I was sad to take him off my daily mandatory reading. Now I give him a quick skim just to see what he's talking about but I don't take anything seriously from him anymore. It's a real bummer. I'm sure he's a nice guy but he's gone loony.

1163 jorline  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:17:59pm

re: #844 Sharmuta

The environment- Teddy Roosevelt Fairness- Civil Rights movement.

Hey Sharm...we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

These all sound like PC conservatism to me...all important issues, but not the foundation.
I'll still take the Reagan model of smaller government and lower taxes. Let the private sector take care of itself...I don't want the government involved.
The government is overly involved in the environment, fairness and civil rights at this time and look where we're at. No drilling because of the environment, quotas and share the wealth fairness. :)

1164 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:05pm

re: #1151 OldLineTexan

"Circle of God"?

It's Muslim.

/

Yeah. I don't think that lady was a muslim. ;)

1165 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:05pm
1166 calcajun  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:11pm

re: #1160 callahan23

Hunt and peck with the nose, silly./

1167 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:22pm

re: #1157 Jimmah

That there was funny, I don't care who you are.

1168 albusteve  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:42pm

re: #1158 Russkilitlover

There is a Mexican grocery store in my town. On the weekends they grill in the parking lot - carne asada tacos, oh my yum. Very simple, just a soft corn tortilla warmed on the grill, carne asada, cilantro, onion, dollop of their terrific salsa and spritzed with lime. Buck each. Oh so good!

Damn it! Now I'm hungry!

tacos rule....whoever has the best tacos rules the world

1169 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:45pm

re: #1146 callahan23

Ronery.

1170 Soona'  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:49pm

re: #1152 DEZes

Thats why they put me in this jacket to begin with.

How do you type with that thing on?

1171 OldLineTexan  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:18:53pm

re: #1164 Gus 802

Yeah. I don't think that lady was a muslim. ;)

Showin' some ankle, eh? Eh?

/

1172 Shug  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:19:00pm

re: #1148 Sharmuta

I feel like I'm at an Alice in Wonderland tea party.

Can I be Ed Wynn ?

1173 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:19:21pm

re: #1170 Soona'

How do you type with that thing on?

I have toes. ;)

1174 screaming_eagle  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:19:43pm

re: #1160 callahan23

How do you type then? Voice activated? ;-)

He's physic.

1175 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:20:13pm

re: #1165 coquimbojoe

Dammit Jimmah, I have been Kylie rolled!

They're the same person anyway:

1176 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:20:29pm

re: #1150 alegrias

You don't know me- so you can cram your assumptions about me where the sun doesn't shine, for all I care.

As for GOP proposals- so far all I've seen is spend less. That's not my idea of fiscally conservative proposals, but you go ahead and think it's me that's being spoon fed.

1177 Gus  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:20:30pm

re: #1162 Killgore Trout

It's really sad. I stopped reading him when he posted some financial doomsday stuff from some nut from Lew Rockwell's blog about a month ago. I always found him reasonable. I was sad to take him off my daily mandatory reading. Now I give him a quick skim just to see what he's talking about but I don't take anything seriously from him anymore. It's a real bummer. I'm sure he's a nice guy but he's gone loony.

Looks like it. I'm looking at his page now and he's pumped up the graphics and the videos. He even has a women's fashion critique about the 70s. Is that his wife putting stuff like that up there?

1178 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:20:44pm

re: #1160 callahan23

How do you type then? Voice activated? ;-)

Toes the line.

1179 DEZes  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:23:17pm

Oooooo, a shiny new thread.

1180 LGoPs  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:23:51pm

re: #1173 DEZes

I have toes. ;)

Good that you do. Because I can not tolerate those who lack toes......
/ :)

1181 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:23:51pm

re: #1130 screaming_eagle

Take time with Iran. Rush and sign a 800 billion pork bill with-out reading it.

Least their priorties are straight.

* * * *
Up ding!

1182 callahan23  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:24:26pm

re: #1179 DEZes

Oooooo, a shiny new thread.

So, let's go .............

1183 alegrias  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:28:07pm

re: #1176 Sharmuta

You don't know me- so you can cram your assumptions about me where the sun doesn't shine, for all I care.

As for GOP proposals- so far all I've seen is spend less. That's not my idea of fiscally conservative proposals, but you go ahead and think it's me that's being spoon fed.

* * * *
Likewise.

1184 Tamron  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:39:57pm

re: #1082 Spartacus50

In summary, our existence here is strictly one of chance. To think that we have "control" over the atmosphere is simply hubris.

Correct. However, following the money, don't be too surprised if you see more "guilty conscience" environmental taxes coming over the horizon.
.

1185 jvic  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:42:34pm

Huntsman is a notorious procrastinator and iconoclast who enjoys watching thespians perform on stage.

“Presumably he is testing the waters [for a presidential run] and we hope he realizes now the waters in Michigan will be hazardous to someone who endorses the homosexual activist political agenda,” said campaign director Gary Glenn.

Gosh, Gary, that's great, but why haven't those Michigan waters floated any Republican electoral votes to DC since 1988? Maybe you don't care?

1186 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 4:44:26pm

re: #1183 alegrias

Why don't you just admit there are no real republican proposals out there?

1187 sitting  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 5:07:40pm

I always love seeing "the homosexual activist political agenda" show up in statements. Oh noes, the gays are coming! Quick, hide the kids! Lock the doors! They're going to gentrify neighborhoods and participate in public life like other decent citizens!

1188 marsl  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 5:10:37pm

With a GOP in a state of civil war...guess who's the real winner?

Those who answers "Obama" are right.

And who loose?

Those who answers "America" are again right.

And prepare yourselves for four more years of Obama. The "Obama-messiah" will win another election. With a GOP fractured, will be a miracle if they can field a decent candidate.
Hell, even Carter could win a election against the GOP right now.

1189 funky chicken  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 5:47:18pm

re: #35 SummerSong

Janet Napolitano does not seem ready for prime time.

She needs to take teleprompter lessons from the O. She looks down at her papers, then her eyes dart up to the ceiling. Unless the media is clinging to the ceiling, it just looks weird.

Yeah, she's really bad. If our government would do something about slowing the influx of new cases of swine flu from Mexico I'd feel a lot less anxious about it.

1190 funky chicken  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 5:54:55pm

re: #1107 Shug

I guess this is what happens when you have criminals like Tom Delay , Wide Stance perverts like Craig and that kiddie fiddler what's his name, foley, and people who think the Earth is 6000 years old in charge of the GOP.

The GOP had a great chance but they totally blew it

and now what the country is left with is far far far worse.

thanks for nuttin

Trent Lott and Ted Stevens should be on that illustrious list, IMHO.

1191 Fritz_Katz  Wed, Apr 29, 2009 8:24:16pm

re: #76 MacGregor

History of Co2 on this planet. Check out the chart.

Here's a rebuttal to Gregory Young's article in the AmericanThinker. However, I don't think the rebuttal adequately handled Young's points about water vapor being a greenhouse gas, also the rate of greenhouse gas emissions by volcanoes and other natural sources vastly eclipses human sources.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 116 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 278 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1