Oklahoma GOP Platform Requires Teaching Creationism

ScienceApril 2009 • Views: 14,915

The new Republican Party platform of Oklahoma requires teaching creationism in public schools.

And people wonder why I call this “the GOP’s big problem.”

The Platform of the 2009 Tulsa County Republican Convention. (PDF)

7. We believe that the scientific evidence supporting Biblical creation should be included in Oklahoma public schools curricula, and if any evolution theory is taught, that both should receive equal funding, class time, and material. Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.

[…]

Curriculum
1. Curricula should include […] the option of using the Bible as HISTORY [emphasis added] or literature text.

Also see

Oklahoma GOP re-elects leader, rejects caucus.

Republicans voted down proposals to hold a convention next year and to ditch the party’s 29-page platform for a simple one-page expression of national Republican Party principles.

The party’s platform approved Saturday opposes the promotion of homosexuality and supports placing the Ten Commandments in all public schools “as a means of moral guidance.”

(Hat tip: freetoken.)

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299 comments

sneezey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:05:58pm

a dinosaur sized problem.

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:07:15pm

Let's send them this link:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:07:18pm

Ouch. Racing Texas to the bottom in this is not a good idea at all.

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:07:28pm

The loonies have taken over RWRs party. Damn their pea brains.

Bloodnok Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:07:40pm

Sad.

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:08:01pm

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:08:29pm

the End is Near!....for me anyway

jaunte Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:08:47pm

Today's GOP needs some 'macroevoution'.

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:09:22pm

re: #8 jaunte

Today's GOP needs some 'macroevoution'.

Or another swift kick in the ass.

brent Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:09:54pm

I'm sorry, but does the GOP want to lose the next (fill in the blanks with a large number) of elections?

Can the GOP stick to what it should be concerned with, what it's forgotten in its headlong rush to absurdity: fiscal responsibility? The Dems are sowing the seeds of their destruction, and we're bailing them out with this crap.

I feel left out of this big tent - where does a conservative with a brain turn any more?

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:09:55pm

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:09:55pm

I wondered a few years ago....Conservatism is dead, or at least in ICU

rawmuse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:10:01pm

OK then, we are officially in the New Age of Darkness.

JacksonTn Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:10:34pm

albusteve ... the end of what ... you can't check out ... you just started working again ... there are taxes to pay ...

Danny Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:10:58pm

Two words for the okie GOPers: Private Schools.

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:11:02pm

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe the Republican Party is like a stegosaur, with one brain in the head and another brain at the base of the tail.

The question is, which is which?

And both of those are not so much "brains" as tangles of ganglia ...

919nc Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:11:32pm

What a joke.

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:12:11pm

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey
Well at the moment with all of this social bullshit they are spouting they ensure that the Repubs will keep losing to the socialists.

jaunte Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:12:40pm

It's a shame they don't think God is capable of handing his end of things.

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:12:41pm

Here's the actual entry:

7. We believe that the scientific evidence supporting Biblical creation should be included in Oklahoma public schools curricula, and if any evolution theory is taught, that both should receive equal funding, class time, and material. Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.

Scientific evidence mind you.

There's a couple of other funny things in this platform.

Last Mohican Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:12:52pm

I really have to thank Charles again for exposing this issue. It really never would have occurred to me that there were more than a few hundred or so of these anti-science morons in America, period, let alone that they control the Republican party.

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:13:03pm

re: #13 rawmuse

So what are we going to do about it? We can sit here and commiserate amongst ourselves or we can harness the power of this group to work on a true grass that doesn't include:
1. Whack jobs
2. Racists
3. Stupid name with obvious to everyone but Republican and Libertarian sexual innuendo

and take back our party.

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:13:31pm

re: #19 jaunte

It's a shame they don't think God is capable of handing his end of things.

It's like that woman that worships Obama ... they figure if they help God, he will help them.

/But they don't ask God what kind of help he WANTS

Last Mohican Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:13:42pm

re: #15 Danny

Two words for the okie GOPers: Private Schools.

Seriously. I hope the Oklahoma GOP platform still calls for school vouchers too. They're gonna need 'em.

Noam Sayin' Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:13:51pm

Dumb bastards...

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:14:08pm

re: #22 ArmyWife

A true grass. What the heck. GRASS ROOTS EFFORT.

/I'm going back in my corner now.

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:14:25pm

re: #14 JacksonTn

albusteve ... the end of what ... you can't check out ... you just started working again ... there are taxes to pay ...

time to head for the hills...if the GOP continues to corrupt itself with this bullshit they will hand eternal power to the kids in DC...if that happens I will simply withdraw from events and watch from another location...my money belongs to me

Last Mohican Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:14:45pm

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe the Republican Party is like a stegosaur, with one brain in the head and another brain at the base of the tail.

The question is, which is which?

Stegosaurs have two brains? Wow. I wonder what happens when one end wants to go out for pizza and the other end is in the mood for Chinese food.

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:14:52pm

re: #26 ArmyWife

A true grass. What the heck. GRASS ROOTS EFFORT.

/I'm going back in my corner now.

I thought you were promoting some hemp research ...

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:14:53pm

brent Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:15:06pm

If any republican "strategists" are reading this, how about
- not mentioning creationism
- not mentioning same sex marriage
- focusing on the economy
- pointing out some of the more repulsive elements of the bailouts, like how it's going to medicare, how the uaw is going to own GM, etc.

Just some rough thoughts, but I assume you need some help. You're welcome.

The Other Les Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:15:06pm

Someone needs to go back in time and step on a butterfly.

(Ray Bradbury reference)

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:15:20pm

re: #28 Last Mohican

Stegosaurs have two brains? Wow. I wonder what happens when one end wants to go out for pizza and the other end is in the mood for Chinese food.

They miss the Ark.

looking closely Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:15:54pm

And people wonder why I call this “the GOP’s big problem.”

In pragmatic terms, this is a problem to the extent that it costs the Republicans votes.

I'm guessing that in the State of OK, it does not. In fact, the contrary is possibly true.

You're not going to see Creationism on the Republican agenda in Massachusetts, for example.

Last Mohican Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:15:56pm

re: #33 OldLineTexan

They miss the Ark.

A-ha! So that's what happened to them.

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:16:00pm

re: #29 OldLineTexan

Sigh. The diet pepsi I just drank went straight to my head, I guess!

Cygnus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:16:00pm

God doesn't need our help. He could have created the universe in 6 days or 16 billion years. I prefer to follow the evidence and stick with the latter figure, thank you very much.

rawmuse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:16:16pm

re: #22 ArmyWife

If the GOP of Oklahoma has that as plank of their platform, then it means that that particular plank got a majority of the votes.

So, who is throwing whom out again?

MandyManners Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:16:35pm

re: #20 Gus 802

We believe that the scientific evidence supporting Biblical creation should be included in Oklahoma public schools curricula, and if any evolution theory is taught, that both should receive equal funding, class time, and material.

Haven't these twits read the First Amendment?

Ojoe Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:16:44pm

Jump, you obnoxious party.

This evening's Towercam. San Gabriel Mountains of California. Pacific time zone.

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:16:47pm

re: #35 Last Mohican

A-ha! So that's what happened to them.

You betcha.

SasquatchOnSteroids Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:17:01pm

So....they want teachers to stop "indoctrinating" kids in actual science so they...can....

RON PAUL !

WindHorse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:17:37pm

ot....

Souter retiring?

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:17:42pm

re: #39 MandyManners

Haven't these twits read the First Amendment?

Heh.

7. We believe that the scientific evidence supporting Q'uranic creation should be included in Oklahoma public schools curricula, and if any evolution theory is taught, that both should receive equal funding, class time, and material. Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.

Cygnus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:17:56pm

re: #33 OldLineTexan

They missed the Ark.

Good thing. Can you imagine having to clean up after them for all that time? Ewwwww!

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:18:07pm

re: #20 Gus 802

Here's the actual entry:

Scientific evidence mind you.

There's a couple of other funny things in this platform.

I don't have a problem with that with doing that. It would just involve a short lesson plan.

"Scientific Evidence of Biblical creation"

"As of today, we have no scientific evidence of Biblical creation, now moving on to evolution"

The Sanity Inspector Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:18:12pm

re: #30 buzzsawmonkey

Social versus fiscal conservatives fight
The debates get angrier and angrier
As the country goes headlong towards Socialist night
We're stuck with a tangle of ganglia.

There's a good limerick in there somewhere...

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:18:36pm

re: #38 rawmuse

If the GOP of Oklahoma has that as plank of their platform, then it means that that particular plank got a majority of the votes.

So, who is throwing whom out again?

Yep, depends on where you are.

Making a MORE fractured GOP.

Ensuring continued Dem majorities.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:18:38pm

Small Government
Defense/National Security
Low Taxes
Reasonable Regulations
Individual Liberty

These need to be the GOP's platform. The Oklahoma GOP are kicking at least two of these principles to the curb here.

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:18:41pm

Do they not have copies of the Constitution in Oklahoma?

Look for OK to slowly turn purple, then blue.

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:18:50pm

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:18:51pm

re: #39 MandyManners

Haven't these twits read the First Amendment?

it will be struck down...but the damage continues

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:19:08pm

In The Words/Humms of the Old Enron Commercial of 1999-2001 -

WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY?

-S-

The Sanity Inspector Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:19:13pm

re: #46 avanti

I don't have a problem with that with doing that. It would just involve a short lesson plan.

"Scientific Evidence of Biblical creation"

"As of today, we have no scientific evidence of Biblical creation, now moving on to evolution"

Hear, hear.

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:19:13pm

JacksonTn Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:19:14pm

re: #27 albusteve

time to head for the hills...if the GOP continues to corrupt itself with this bullshit they will hand eternal power to the kids in DC...if that happens I will simply withdraw from events and watch from another location...my money belongs to me

albusteve ... I hear ya ... I am just getting home now from working since 6 this morning ... when you are the business owner there is hardly ever days off ... what many socialist types don't understand is just how much time it takes to run a business ... they have no friggin clue ... they just want to take from people who take all the risks and give to people who do not ... I will quit before I give any more of my money ... too old for this stuff ... I hope things turn around but if not I am happy with less ... money is not the end all ... I refuse to work hard and give it to people who sit on their ass ... who will save us ...

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:19:23pm

re: #39 MandyManners
Obviously the Bill of Rights is not important with these fools.

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:19:27pm

The Other Les Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:19:35pm

Authority is essentially based on knowledge. And these bozoids are demonstrating their conscious refusal to know on a fundamentally metaphysical level.

And yet they expect us to vote for them?

Cygnus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:20:14pm

My cat is trying to step on my keyboarmgkldfjtioeripgmds9978..

jaunte Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:20:23pm

"Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect."

Which profession?

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:20:54pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

Do they not have copies of the Constitution in Oklahoma?

Look for OK to slowly turn purple, then blue.

Blue?

Have you ever been to OK?

Ojoe Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:20:59pm

re: #60 Cygnus

Next it will try and bite the little arrow moving around the screen.

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:21:24pm

I'm wondering. Would they apply this to the state university system?

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:21:41pm

re: #60 Cygnus
kittehs lak da keyboardz tu!

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:22:14pm

I guess the OK GOP is not interested in having a big tent that welcomes people not of the Christian faith. This reeks of religious supremacism.

Occasional Reader Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:22:16pm

Curricula should include [...] the option of using the Bible as HISTORY [emphasis added] or literature text.

If I could honestly believe that they meant, "use the Bible as a critically-examined source material for history class; and explore the influence of the Bible on Western literature", I'd be fine with that.

But of course, in context, it's clear that's not all they mean.

hazzyday Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:22:34pm

The GoP playbook? is there one? do these cranks ever read it? Someone should just sue them for being stupid. lol

Occasional Reader Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:23:02pm

re: #43 WindHorse

ot....

Souter retiring?

Please, say it ain't so.

Obama naming a SCOTUS justice... that's all we need.

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:23:07pm

re: #59 The Other Les

Authority is essentially based on knowledge. And these bozoids are demonstrating their conscious refusal to know on a fundamentally metaphysical level.

And yet they expect us to vote for them?

The Other Les -

OF COURSE, EVERY TIME - they see themselves as a Belated Santa Claus. Por Favor, Digame, Quien vota Contra Santa Claus?

-S-

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:23:20pm

looking closely Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:23:37pm

How about this from the SC State Republican party platform?

THE RIGHT TO LIFE

The South Carolina Republican Party affirms the Jeffersonian declaration that life is the first inalienable right. We grieve the
loss of over 45 million innocent lives lost to abortion since Roe v. Wade in 1973. We acknowledge that all human life, born and unborn,
has intrinsic worth. We believe that the unborn and the newborn child have a fundamental right to life which must not be infringed.
Accordingly, we believe that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protection should apply to unborn children. We support the reversal of
Roe v. Wade through judicial action or through passage of a Constitutional Human Life Amendment. The Party is totally opposed to
chemical, surgical, or any method of abortion on demand and the use of public revenues to pay for abortions or to fund organizations
which advocate abortion. We find the procedure known as Partial Birth Abortion to be a particularly gruesome method of
abortion/infanticide and we commend President Bush and the U.S. House and Senate for banning this atrocity, and the Supreme
Court for upholding the ban. We extend compassion to women who have experienced abortion and support pregnancy care centers
across South Carolina as they help women in need. We anticipate the day when our unborn children will be classified as legal persons
rather than as legal property.

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:23:56pm

What does this mean?

1. We oppose the use of subjective determination of mental intent to increase criminal penalties.

Is that related to hate crime laws? Seems like one can read pre-meditation into that as well.

JacksonTn Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:24:02pm

re: #69 Occasional Reader

Please, say it ain't so.

Obama naming a SCOTUS justice... that's all we need.

OR ... we knew it would happen sometime during his reign ...

Van Helsing Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:24:09pm

re: #71 buzzsawmonkey

Bad buzzsamonkey!

Van Helsing Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:24:27pm

or even buzzsawmonkey.

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:24:27pm

re: #56 JacksonTn

albusteve ... I hear ya ... I am just getting home now from working since 6 this morning ... when you are the business owner there is hardly ever days off ... what many socialist types don't understand is just how much time it takes to run a business ... they have no friggin clue ... they just want to take from people who take all the risks and give to people who do not ... I will quit before I give any more of my money ... too old for this stuff ... I hope things turn around but if not I am happy with less ... money is not the end all ... I refuse to work hard and give it to people who sit on their ass ... who will save us ...

I made my peace long ago with the feds...they can kiss my ass while I sit in jail...I will not submit...they clobbered me for every good thing I ever did...property and businesses...the schools will corrupt my grandchildren...they are after my fathers money....I have a beef that I'll take to my grave...they don't scare me a bit

Last Mohican Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:24:38pm

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe the Republican Party is like a stegosaur, with one brain in the head and another brain at the base of the tail.

Interestingly, the human body sort of has two brains as well. The gastrointestinal tract (i.e. esophagus, stomach, intestines) has its own nervous system, which can operate independently even if deprived of connections to the brain. It has about a hundred million nerve cells in it, which is more than there are in the spinal cord (but only about a thousandth of the number that are in the brain).

WindHorse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:24:58pm

re: #69 Occasional Reader

I know.... one wonders what Mr. Brainchile will do.... Who was that broad that would camp out at George Bush's ranch?

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:25:15pm

For folks with dinosaur ganglia
The world gets tangly and tanglia
A Creationist fight
The GOP's good night
And here we are, just getting anglia

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:25:31pm

re: #69 Occasional Reader

Please, say it ain't so.

Obama naming a SCOTUS justice... that's all we need.

link...

Occasional Reader Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:25:57pm

re: #74 JacksonTn

OR ... we knew it would happen sometime during his reign ...

Not that Souter is any prize, of course. But who will Obama nominate? I shudder to think.

Killgore Trout Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:01pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

I guess the OK GOP is not interested in having a big tent that welcomes people not of the Christian faith. This reeks of religious supremacism.

...and that's one of the reasons Jews tend to vote Dem.

BlueCanuck Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:09pm

re: #80 OldLineTexan

E for effort? :)

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:15pm

re: #62 OldLineTexan

Blue?

Have you ever been to OK?

If I was in OK- I would be changing my party affiliation to either the dems or independents. I'm not cool with the party thinking it's their job to promote a religious view held by a minority of Christians. I'm not Catholic, but I attend Mass, and have been considering converting for awhile now. This move goes against the teachings of the Church- and I believe the Catholic Church is not alone in supporting the teachings of evolution. They have shunned Catholics with this position, as well as other faiths that don't subscribe to a literal reading. How are we supposed to get more Jews to leave the democrats with BS like this?!

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:19pm

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:24pm

Requiring teaching the Bible as part of history should be restricted to its impact on human society leaving religion in church and personal practice. Teaching the historical events that took place in those time periods I have no problem with as part of an ancient history curriculum.

Last Mohican Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:35pm

re: #81 avanti

link...

Great. Maybe Jeremiah Wright will get a chance to come out of retirement.

jaunte Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:49pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

I guess the OK GOP is not interested in having a big tent that welcomes people not of the Christian faith. This reeks of religious supremacism.

Oklahoma is pretty solidly Christian.

Evangelical Protestant groups predominate in Oklahoma with adherents representing about 41.4% of the total population in 2000.
The leading Protestant group in 2000 was the
Southern Baptist Convention with 967,223 adherents.
Other leading Evangelical Protestant denominations include the
Assemblies of God, 88,301 adherents;
the Churches of Christ, 83,047;
the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), 53,729;
and the Christian Churches, 42,708.
The largest Mainline Protestant denominations are
the United Methodist Church, with 322,794 adherents,
and the Presbyterian Church USA, with 35,211 adherents.
In 2000, there were 168,625 Roman Catholics,6,145 Muslims, and about 5,050 Jews throughout the state. About 39.2% of the population did not claim any religious affiliation.
[Link: www.oklahomadiary.us...]

JustMyView Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:26:57pm

re: #43 WindHorse

ot....

Souter retiring?

Seems so, but there's no confirmation of this "according to sources" story yet..

Ojoe Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:27:03pm

re: #77 albusteve

The death tax is so immoral.

I should be able to mourn my parents and carry on & instead there is this nightmare for my siblings and I.

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:27:05pm

re: #78 Last Mohican

Interestingly, the human body sort of has two brains as well. The gastrointestinal tract (i.e. esophagus, stomach, intestines) has its own nervous system, which can operate independently even if deprived of connections to the brain. It has about a hundred million nerve cells in it, which is more than there are in the spinal cord (but only about a thousandth of the number that are in the brain).

For many folks, the nerves are concentrated near the anus. In some extreme cases, this makeshift "brain" takes over.

Cato the Elder Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:27:30pm

re: #61 jaunte

"Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect."

Which profession?

They're like Muslims - they want not only tolerance but respect. Read: Respect me or I'll...

"You dissin' my theory, boy?"

JacksonTn Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:27:38pm

re: #77 albusteve

albusteve ... I missed the music thread ... too tired to go back through it now ... did you post anything good ... I could use a good song now ... before I fall out ...

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:27:57pm

Here's another one:

15. We believe the First Amendment's Establishment Clause was intended to prevent a state-sponsored religion rather than a separation of God from our government. All Americans, whether as private citizens or public officials, should be entitled to acknowledge God. This acknowledgement includes the freedom to display religious symbols in public areas.

Slippery slope perhaps?

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:28:09pm

re: #38 rawmuse

A majority of votes among them, yes. But will they win elections against dems? Don't misunderstand, I don't want to "throw them out". I'm ok with creationists being in our tent - it is their right. It isn't appropriate, however, to insist it is somehow "science" and should be taught as such. I'm ok with not supporting homosexual marriage. I'm not ok with being a biggot, however.

The 10 commandments is interesting. I've not had an issue with them being on Court walls. It probably wouldn't harm anyone if they were there, but that doesn't make it appropriate for every single school to have it. I'd suggest a compromise position and put them up in religious based private schools, at the expense of those who want them there. ;)

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:28:14pm

Cato the Elder Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:28:36pm

At 69, Souter is nowhere near the oldest member of the court, but he has made clear to friends for some time now that he wanted to leave Washington, a city he has never liked, and return to his native New Hampshire.

Who can blame him?

Ojoe Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:28:54pm

re: #97 buzzsawmonkey

Well that's a religious thing.

LOL

100

doppelganglander Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:28:58pm

Aw, jeez, not this shit again?

/facepalm

101

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:29:04pm

I'm severely pissed my political party is being used to promote religion- period.

This IS NOT why I joined the GOP, and if they keep it up, I will leave.

102

swamprat Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:29:28pm

Well we could tie the Buddhist concepts of reincarnation to any and all wave phenomena, including the cycle of photo synthesis. But really, should not the Buddhist parents be the ones to point out that the cycles of life are appointed to all of the universe, and so, as a beautiful illustration of the word itself, these cycles are indeed.....universal.

Let us not forget Shiva, whose principals are entwined in physics.

And physics mirror the emerald tablets of Hermes, in which are tantalizing hints of atomic theory, mathematical TRVTHS, and karmic allegories galore.

We can't just pander to one group; that would be unAmerican!

103

brookly red Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:29:34pm

re: #78 Last Mohican

Interestingly, the human body sort of has two brains as well. The gastrointestinal tract (i.e. esophagus, stomach, intestines) has its own nervous system, which can operate independently even if deprived of connections to the brain. It has about a hundred million nerve cells in it, which is more than there are in the spinal cord (but only about a thousandth of the number that are in the brain).

My head sometimes makes mistakes, but my stomach is never wrong.

104

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:29:42pm

it's like something out of a Heinlein novel....religious fanatics sweeping aside our unique culture in favor of a theocratic govt...the system continues to fail the people....they make the rules and votes mean less and less....droolers are killing America...but I'll survive persona non grata under the radar

105

cronus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:30:27pm

As my Sooner friend likes to say, Oklahoma: Where the Democrats are Republicans and Republicans are crazy.

106

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:30:28pm

re: #91 Ojoe

The death tax is so immoral.

I should be able to mourn my parents and carry on & instead there is this nightmare for my siblings and I.

yes...it's criminal

107

gtrs Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:30:39pm

IMO; this is just scary; the scopes "monkey trial" was in 1920; i believe this crap in OK shows REAL "de-evolution"

108

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #72 looking closely

I find that more tolerable than creationism = science.

109

Ojoe Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:31:22pm

re: #101 Sharmuta

Modern Whig Party

Try these guys

110

Cato the Elder Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:31:43pm

re: #109 Ojoe

Modern Whig Party

Try these guys

Bah.

111

SasquatchOnSteroids Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:31:51pm

re: #97 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe, if I don't pay my taxes, I can live forever.

I'm in. I don't have to wear a snuggie, do I ?

112

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:31:56pm

re: #104 albusteve

"If this Goes on". It's a short story in a collection of Heinlein stories. The USA turns into Iran, except worse.

113

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:31:56pm

re: #94 JacksonTn

albusteve ... I missed the music thread ... too tired to go back through it now ... did you post anything good ... I could use a good song now ... before I fall out ...

just for you...

Youtube Video

114

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:32:10pm

re: #103 brookly red

My head sometimes makes mistakes, but my stomach is never wrong.

My stomach always says, "Feed me."

Youtube Video

115

JacksonTn Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:32:11pm

re: #91 Ojoe

The death tax is so immoral.

I should be able to mourn my parents and carry on & instead there is this nightmare for my siblings and I.

Ojoe ... it is a shame ... I went to an Elder Law attorney when my parents first became ill ... I transferred all their assets into a trust which protected their assets from seizure when they were hospitalized for an extended period of time ... it seems like they make us find ways to "protect" our assets ... sometimes you have to get creative ... other times ... just dig in a hole in the backyard ...

116

Dahveed Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:32:23pm

Here's a shock - that money, the $13 bucks per paycheck or something, that the Obama Administration was touting as something that was going to restart the economy actually needs to be paid back.

117

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:32:26pm

118

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:33:03pm

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

That is just wrong. Wrong, I tell you!

119

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:33:19pm

120

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:33:26pm

re: #109 Ojoe

Modern Whig Party

Try these guys

I'm going to continue to try to bring the GOP back to it's fiscal roots at this time. I'm not hopeless that it can't be done, just pissed at the moment.

121

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:33:28pm

re: #112 pingjockey

"If this Goes on". It's a short story in a collection of Heinlein stories. The USA turns into Iran, except worse.

I've read everything he put to pen...he is a huge person in my life...I'm willing to pay the price for my resistance

122

pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:33:36pm

REQUIRES ?!?!?!?!
I expect to see them wearing hair shirts as they roam the political wilderness.

I hope they're f*ing happy that they didn't vote for McCain because he was too liberal.

(Iron Fist Corollary #1 -- if you think you're too p*ssed to post, you are.
... ... ... I'm outta here for the night!)

123

Abaddon Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:34:14pm

Send me to Coventry, now.

*Sorry, had a Heinlein flashback. I miss him.

124

Occasional Reader Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:34:19pm

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

Start getting used to saying "Justice Bernardine Dorhn."

I'm sure she'll pen some truly incendiary opinions. Explosive ones, too.

125

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:34:36pm

126

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:35:03pm

re: #115 JacksonTn

Ojoe ... it is a shame ... I went to an Elder Law attorney when my parents first became ill ... I transferred all their assets into a trust which protected their assets from seizure when they were hospitalized for an extended period of time ... it seems like they make us find ways to "protect" our assets ... sometimes you have to get creative ... other times ... just dig in a hole in the backyard ...

we are disassembling my mothers formidable assets right now...alot of it is simply vanishing

127

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:35:39pm

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

Start getting used to saying "Justice Bernardine Dorhn."

OUCH!....omg

128

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:35:49pm

re: #121 albusteve
I read a short story collection by David Weber, IIRC. One was called "The return of William Proxmire". Pretty good stuff.
If what happens in OK spreads to the rest of the GOP, we'll have Huckabee and Pat Robertson nominated for prez!

129

Mich-again Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:35:54pm

The first line in the linked document..

God who gave us life gave us liberty.” – Thomas Jefferson

They use the words of Thomas Jefferson to justify their crap? He would not be amused. Jefferson would never support religion in a science classroom.

The dolts who wrote that probably think Jefferson was a Christian. Its a common lie propagated by many fools.

130

Charles Johnson Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:36:00pm

re: #78 Last Mohican

Interestingly, the human body sort of has two brains as well. The gastrointestinal tract (i.e. esophagus, stomach, intestines) has its own nervous system, which can operate independently even if deprived of connections to the brain. It has about a hundred million nerve cells in it, which is more than there are in the spinal cord (but only about a thousandth of the number that are in the brain).

The gastrointestinal tract is not the only human organ that has its own brain.

Just sayin'.

131

JacksonTn Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:36:03pm

re: #113 albusteve

just for you...

[Video]

albusteve ... now you did it ... that makes me cry ...

132

pink freud Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:36:05pm

re: #125 buzzsawmonkey

OK. "Justice Samantha Powers?"

"Justice Hillary Clinton?"

"Justice Cynthia McKinney?"

"Justice Lani Guinier?"

Isn't Caroline Kennedy in line for a favor or two?

133

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:36:22pm

re: #125 buzzsawmonkey

Cynthia McKinney is a lawyer? Really?

134

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:36:51pm

re: #130 Charles

The gastrointestinal tract is not the only human organ that has its own brain.

Just sayin'.

Argh, Popeye has a mind of his own.

Argh.

135

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:36:51pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

I'm going to continue to try to bring the GOP back to it's fiscal roots at this time. I'm not hopeless that it can't be done, just pissed at the moment.

your'e a beast....good for you...I'm old and nearly spent

136

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:36:56pm

137

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:37:19pm

re: #132 pink freud
You have to have a semi-functioning brain to sit on the SCOTUS. She's disqualified.

138

Digital Display Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:37:34pm

re: #130 Charles

The gastrointestinal tract is not the only human organ that has its own brain.

Just sayin'.

So there is a brain in that head..I never knew that...

139

WindHorse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:37:48pm

it will be a woman..... and "hopefully" a black woman......

Jocelyn?

140

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:38:26pm

OK Charles -

Says to ME that the OK-GOP has aspirations to something like an agreeable "morality" They will be Unable to reach/enforce same, human nature being what it is.
My Question IS - what are the aspirations of the OK - Democrats - If Any?
Same goes for MY FORMER PARTY - The Democrats - Nationally.
Human Nature is what it is. That is all.

-S-

141

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:38:32pm

142

Occasional Reader Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:38:39pm

Good night.

143

WindHorse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:38:46pm

re: #139 WindHorse

(not that it matters to me, but it is what I think will happen...)

144

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:38:53pm

re: #138 HoosierHoops

So there is a brain in that head..I never knew that...

And it steals blood that the other brain desperately needs to bring it oxygen ... the other brain will make all sorts of desperate deals to get that blood back.

145

pink freud Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:39:00pm

re: #137 pingjockey

You have to have a semi-functioning brain to sit on the SCOTUS. She's disqualified.

I used to think that about the Presidency, too.

146

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:39:01pm

re: #136 buzzsawmonkey

I understand, but that would be difficult to get past the Dems due her lack of ability to work through legal analysis. She can't work through crossing the street safely analysis, let alone apply legal concepts in a cohesive way. In fact, I'd be she would suggest starting a grass effort.

(I gotta laugh at myself).

147

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:39:23pm

re: #120 Sharmuta
I'm with you! So far I haven't seen this lunancy here in WA state, but every mailer I get from the RNC I will put a screed in about what the hell are you idjits thinking?!

148

WindHorse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:39:32pm

re: #141 buzzsawmonkey

I would hold still for Aretha.....

149

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:39:57pm

re: #116 Dahveed

OT

Here's a shock - that money, the $13 bucks per paycheck or something, that the Obama Administration was touting as something that was going to restart the economy actually needs to be paid back.

Only if you are overpaid according to the link. i.e., two jobs give you a double credit. All I get is $250 for Social Security.

150

JustMyView Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:40:26pm

re: #133 ArmyWife

Cynthia McKinney is a lawyer? Really?

One doesn't have to be a lawyer to be nominated. Am not sure how long it's been since we've had a non-lawyer justice, but it's happened. Nonetheless, I don't think McKinney will be high on the list of nominees regardless of whether she is a lawyer or not.

151

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:40:28pm

re: #145 pink freud
Yeah, there is that.
BTW, Bulls/Celtics going to 3rd OT.

152

brookly red Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:40:35pm

re: #139 WindHorse

it will be a woman..... and "hopefully" a black woman......

Jocelyn?

/Oprah.

153

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:40:36pm

re: #135 albusteve

your'e a beast....good for you...I'm old and nearly spent

Well- you told me just yesterday to "keep pushing". I think I will.

154

SasquatchOnSteroids Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:40:57pm

re: #141 buzzsawmonkey

Maxine Waters? Barbara Lee?

Any law prohibiting appointing ones'...ahem.... spouse ?
Just askin'

155

Digital Display Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:41:02pm

Triple Overtime! Celts game! I can barely yell anymore!
/gasp..

156

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:41:36pm

re: #128 pingjockey

I read a short story collection by David Weber, IIRC. One was called "The return of William Proxmire". Pretty good stuff.
If what happens in OK spreads to the rest of the GOP, we'll have Huckabee and Pat Robertson nominated for prez!

very scary...and it's starting to happen now...this wild eyed focus on personal liberties and how to diminish them...it's the stuff of fiction and in these time paradigms evolve so rapidly that ordinary people don't even know what hit them....the beauty of LGF is that there is a wire...a default line based on solid ethic and principle...will it make a difference?

157

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:41:51pm

re: #141 buzzsawmonkey

buzzsawmonkey -

THE ULTIMATE Black Power Female. An Israeli, Black, Female, Border Guard, WITH AN UZI. That is all.

-S-

158

yesandno Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:42:03pm

The two ends of the spectrum are approaching each other from the other side...the far left and the far right nutjobs.

And to think that the GOP started as the party of limited government, promotion of individual rights and responsibilities, low taxation and capitalism. These social conservatives and religious conservatives have hijacked the GOP and it has EVOLVED into something altogther different.

And to think they don't believe in evolution!

159

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:42:48pm

160

crosspatch Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:44:05pm

I wish people would keep their darned religion at home and in church and stop trying to shove it down everyone's throat. I am sure the Muslims will love this, though, because they believe in the same creation story as Christians do.

The main problem is that America is full of people of all sorts of religions, not just the Abrahamic religions. I would be pretty pissed if I were a Buddhist, Sikh, Hindi, or other religion that has a different (or no) creation belief. This is basically government indoctrination in a religious belief. This is exactly why so many people fear Republicans in charge, they are afraid the Republicans will jam their religion down everyone's throat and in Oklahoma, that seems to be the case. Dumb.

161

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:44:13pm

re: #149 avanti

Or you have 2 working spouses, which is the real kicker. Excellent spin job, though. Congrats.

(or you make over $95,000 or $190,000 as a couple. What happened to $250,000? hmmmm?)

162

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:44:31pm

re: #129 Mich-again

The first line in the linked document..

They use the words of Thomas Jefferson to justify their crap? He would not be amused. Jefferson would never support religion in a science classroom.

The dolts who wrote that probably think Jefferson was a Christian. Its a common lie propagated by many fools.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors."

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

163

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:44:37pm

re: #153 Sharmuta

Well- you told me just yesterday to "keep pushing". I think I will.

I will promote your ideas as best I can....I am not completely isolated

164

Mich-again Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:44:47pm

Its not all bad.. I like these two.

22. We oppose efforts by our government to pressure Israel or any other nation into negotiating with terrorists.
23. We recognize Israel as our greatest ally in the Middle East in the war against terrorism, and support the presence of our U.S. ambassador in Jerusalem, the capital city of Israel.

165

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:44:57pm

re: #159 buzzsawmonkey

What? You haven't seen the Wife-Beater Robe? It's like the Snuggie, without arms...it's called the SCuggie.

166

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:45:22pm

re: #156 albusteve
We have to try.

167

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:45:45pm

re: #160 crosspatch

I wish people would keep their darned religion at home and in church and stop trying to shove it down everyone's throat. I am sure the Muslims will love this, though, because they believe in the same creation story as Christians do.

The main problem is that America is full of people of all sorts of religions, not just the Abrahamic religions. I would be pretty pissed if I were a Buddhist, Sikh, Hindi, or other religion that has a different (or no) creation belief. This is basically government indoctrination in a religious belief. This is exactly why so many people fear Republicans in charge, they are afraid the Republicans will jam their religion down everyone's throat and in Oklahoma, that seems to be the case. Dumb.

What about the various Native American tribes- many with completely different creation myths? Weren't a number of these tribes pushed into Oklahoma? What about their rights?

168

Velvet Elvis Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:45:45pm

re: #150 JustMyView

One doesn't have to be a lawyer to be nominated. Am not sure how long it's been since we've had a non-lawyer justice, but it's happened. Nonetheless, I don't think McKinney will be high on the list of nominees regardless of whether she is a lawyer or not.

I'm pretty sure Earl Warren wasn't a lawyer.

169

Hhar Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:46:27pm

Oh jumpin'

Its so bloody sad.

170

cronus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:46:44pm

Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.

I'm sure that if a teacher decided to cover creation science by subjecting it to scientific examination and summarily dismissing it that there's no chance he/she would be subjected to intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.
/

171

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:46:51pm

172

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:46:52pm

re: #161 ArmyWife

Or you have 2 working spouses, which is the real kicker. Excellent spin job, though. Congrats.

(or you make over $95,000 or $190,000 as a couple. What happened to $250,000? hmmmm?)

Yep, you'll get $1200, and are due only $800, so some will go back.

173

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:47:04pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I probably could have set that up better had I not been more than a beer in.

174

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:47:40pm

re: #168 Conservative Moonbat

I'm pretty sure Earl Warren wasn't a lawyer.

Actually, he was.

175

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:48:00pm

re: #172 avanti

I get nothing. I don't qualify.

176

JacksonTn Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:48:14pm

Good Night Lizards ... morning coming fast ... keep up the fight ...

177

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:48:15pm

re: #171 buzzsawmonkey

You think this quote establishes Jefferson as a Christian, in the sense of someone who believes in the divinity of Jesus?

You do have reading comprehension problems.

Actually, I think he presented it as proof of the exact opposite.

178

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:48:47pm

re: #171 buzzsawmonkey

You think this quote establishes Jefferson as a Christian, in the sense of someone who believes in the divinity of Jesus?

You do have reading comprehension problems.

No, I posted it to agree that he was the opposite. He was a deist.

179

Capitalistincharge Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:49:09pm

Sorry to go OT but just wanted to give the Pink, NY Nana, Goddess and rest of Lizard Family a quick update on SIL. Thanks to NY Nana's insistence that daughter take him back to hospital immediately, he is holding his own tonight. Turns out she was right, he was having a reaction to the antibiotics. He is one sick guy. We will know more tomorrow about tests. I can't thank you all enough. I am so grateful for you all. I will update you more tomorrow. Today was a tough day.

180

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:49:32pm

re: #172 avanti

Yep, you'll ~~get~~ keep $1200, and are ~~due~~ allowed only $800, so some will ~~go back~~ be taken away.

FFTFY

181

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:50:10pm

182

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:51:36pm

re: #181 buzzsawmonkey

buzz, mellow ... keep it mellow

183

albusteve Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:51:44pm

re: #166 pingjockey

We have to try.

yes and I hope you don't give up...I have no dog in the fight anymore...I have money in the market and I have no clue what will happen to all my paper assets...as far as I'm concerned it is somebody elses problem and I'll take what I get....I'm severely jaded and running out of gas, but people must carry on and do what they can

184

pink freud Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:51:44pm

re: #179 Capitalistincharge

Excellent news, CIC! I am so glad you decided to go. Take good care of your darlins. Nothing like Mama's (or Dad's?) love. :-)

185

The Shadow Do Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:51:46pm

The Dems have a very deep bench for the SC. Al Gore for example.

186

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:51:50pm

187

Bob Dillon Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:51:57pm

Ah Tulsa... Home of Oral Roberts University, his "World HQ" and the home base of many other Creationism organizations since the late 50s.

188

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:52:08pm

189

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:52:32pm

re: #180 OldLineTexan

FFTFY

Because it's MY money, dammitalltoHell, NOT THEIRS.

/even if it has their name on it ;)

190

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:52:34pm

re: #183 albusteve
I have 3 boys. I can't give up!

191

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:52:51pm

192

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:53:18pm

re: #188 BigAl
Bite me!

193

Capitalistincharge Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:53:38pm

Hee, Hee....Mom!

194

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:53:48pm

re: #192 pingjockey

Bite me!

ping, that's not hygienic ...

195

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:54:13pm

re: #174 OldLineTexan

Actually, he was.

OLT -

AND - Governor of CA in the Days of the Nisei Detention. Does the word "GUILT" mean anything to you?

-S-

196

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:54:14pm

re: #188 BigAl

Actually- we do have a clue. It's called empirical data.

197

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:54:25pm

re: #194 OldLineTexan

Plus with this swine flu going around, that would be REALLY risky. Really risky.

198

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:54:35pm

re: #194 OldLineTexan
Good! I'm not hygenic! Maybe he'll get rabies!

199

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:54:37pm

re: #181 buzzsawmonkey

I don't think so; he presented it as a reply to Mich-again who was stating that Jefferson was not a Christian--implication being that the quote proved Mich-again wrong.

Of course, that's the problem with quote-mining while failing to actually state your argument.

I guess I could have given a explanation, but I thought the Jefferson quote made it pretty clear how he felt about Christianity.

200

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:55:08pm

re: #188 BigAl

I have a cluezooka.

201

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:55:28pm

202

Mich-again Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:56:13pm

re: #199 avanti

I guess I could have given a explanation, but I thought the Jefferson quote made it pretty clear how he felt about Christianity.

I understood what you posted Avanti. I've read that quote before.

203

pink freud Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:56:24pm

re: #193 Capitalistincharge

We had no way of knowing! Now we do. :-)

204

Cato the Elder Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:56:27pm

re: #112 pingjockey

"If this Goes on". It's a short story in a collection of Heinlein stories. The USA turns into Iran, except worse.

"The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood.

205

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:56:33pm

re: #200 Idle Drifter

Ildle Drifter -

"CLUEZOOKA" should be the quote of the night.

-S-

206

MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:56:33pm

re: #188 BigAl

Sod off, swampy...

207

Velvet Elvis Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:56:37pm

re: #174 OldLineTexan

Actually, he was.

I guess I was thinking that he'd never been a judge.

208

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:56:53pm

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

You agree, then, that Jefferson would not have supported teaching a religious doctrine in a science class?

He would have been appalled at the concept. If he were alive today, he'd be labeled a leftie by the religious right for his social views.

209

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:57:19pm

I wonder if Obama would take my application as interest in the SCOTUS slot. Maybe I should stop paying my taxes now to increase my odds...

210

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:57:34pm

re: #204 Cato the Elder
Haven't read that. It will go on my recommended lizard reading list.

211

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:57:43pm

re: #205 Dr. Shalit

Ildle Drifter -

"CLUEZOOKA" should be the quote of the night.

-S-

Thanks! ^_^

212

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:57:51pm

213

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:58:10pm

re: #204 Cato the Elder

I love that book. I first read it in College, and have read it multiple times over the years.

214

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:58:33pm

re: #212 buzzsawmonkey

And with his energy-saving invention of the storm window, Jefferson would be the darling of the Green folks.

And with his other proclivities ...

215

Cato the Elder Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:58:50pm

re: #210 pingjockey

Haven't read that. It will go on my recommended lizard reading list.

Well worth it.

216

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:58:58pm

re: #202 Mich-again

I understood what you posted Avanti. I've read that quote before.

I know, but as a fairly new guy, and a leftie to boot, I should have been clearer. There is a natural tendency to think I'll be on the wrong side of every discussion. :)

217

Charles Johnson Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:59:01pm

re: #188 BigAl

That's what I get for restoring your account. Won't make that mistake again.

218

Capitalistincharge Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:59:18pm

Goodnite all...must rest and restore. Avanti, play nice.

219

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:59:31pm

re: #217 Charles
Bwahahaha! WHACK!

220

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 7:59:53pm

re: #208 avanti

He would have been appalled at the concept. If he were alive today, he'd be labeled a leftie by the religious right for his social views.

avanti -

For what it is worth, Thomas Jefferson was labeled as being a "Libertine" in his own day by his political opponents. Sound familiar?

-S-

221

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:00:01pm

re: #212 buzzsawmonkey

And with his energy-saving invention of the storm window, Jefferson would be the darling of the Green folks.

To be honest, his quotes on religion would probably make him unelectable today.

222

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:00:07pm

223

ArmyWife Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:00:10pm

re: #217 Charles

Hey look! Charles has a cluezooka, too! A great big one!

224

itellu3times Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:00:20pm

I have a new theory, being around too much corn must lower the IQ.

No, wait, that would be Iowa or Nebraska.

OK, I have no theory.

225

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:00:32pm

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

Start getting used to saying "Justice Bernardine Dorhn."

I think I've been relatively level-headed through all the bullshit over the years, but if that happens I will likely lose my shit.

226

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:01:12pm

re: #218 Capitalistincharge

Goodnite all...must rest and restore. Avanti, play nice.

I always try, goodnite to you too.

227

Cato the Elder Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:01:28pm

re: #179 Capitalistincharge

Who is SIL?

228

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:01:39pm

re: #224 itellu3times

I have a new theory, being around too much corn must lower the IQ.

No, wait, that would be Iowa or Nebraska.

OK, I have no theory.

Chief White Halfoat would not approve.

229

MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:01:44pm

re: #217 Charles

That's what I get for restoring your account. Won't make that mistake again.

Buh-bye, BigAl...don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

/Charles was "BAM!" like Emeril...

230

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:01:58pm

re: #219 pingjockey

Youtube Video

Bub bye, BigAl.

231

Charles Johnson Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:02:10pm

Some really wonderful hate mail coming in tonight. Might require a 'We got mail' post.

232

[deleted] Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:02:14pm

233

cronus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:02:19pm

I'm reading the platform and apparently the Tulsa County Republican Party has a position on literally everything. Here's another plank. Second part seems ok. First part is hmmm...

5. We oppose any curriculum that promotes one-world government, communism, socialism, global citizenship, and any curriculum originating with UNESCO. We affirm that our citizens, of any race, creed, or culture, are fully American. We support teaching our commonalities as U.S. citizens. We support teaching the intent of our founding fathers, the original founding documents, and the difference between a democracy and a republic.

234

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:03:21pm

re: #233 cronus

I'm reading the platform and apparently the Tulsa County Republican Party has a position on literally everything. Here's another plank. Second part seems ok. First part is hmmm...

Why? UNESCO? I would burn that trash if it came into my house.

235

pingjockey Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:03:37pm

re: #230 Idle Drifter
Whahahaha! That'll do!

236

NY Nana Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:03:54pm

re: #179 Capitalistincharge

Thank G-d! I am so glad that he is doing better, and that he was admitted to the hospital. And thanks to Pink Freud for emailing me, and to Goddess, who will have him on the LGF prayer list.

He will have a lot of prayers, and when you get back, please let us know how the kids are doing. The rash was worrying me more than anything.

OK, now I exhale.

237

Kreuzueber Halbmond Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:03:58pm

re: #223 ArmyWife

Hey look! Charles has a cluezooka, too! A great big one!

When it comes to creationists, he whips out his alphazooka..

238

Capitalistincharge Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:04:01pm

re: #227 Cato the Elder

Son In Law who gave us a hell of a helluva scare last night. Suddenly very sick, preliminary diagnosis is acute pnuemonia but there have been bad complications. Later all.

239

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:05:10pm

re: #223 ArmyWife

Hey look! Charles has a cluezooka, too! A great big one!

Something like this:

Youtube Video

Cluezooka features top attack mode.

240

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:05:25pm

re: #233 cronus

I'm reading the platform and apparently the Tulsa County Republican Party has a position on literally everything. Here's another plank. Second part seems ok. First part is hmmm...

I noticed that too. Seems rather limiting in many respects and the left out national-socialism. I mean if they are going to go through the trouble of providing a list it may as well be complete. Otherwise it does sound a bit like book burning and Bircher paranoia to a certain extent.

Second part is good.

241

Sharmuta Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:05:36pm

re: #233 cronus

The thing is- folks who push creationism think the Founder's intent was to establish a "Christian nation". Whenever I see "Founder's intent" now, I get highly suspicious.

242

WindHorse Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:05:53pm

re: #232 buzzsawmonkey

goodnight....

243

avanti Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:06:10pm

re: #231 Charles

Some really wonderful hate mail coming in tonight. Might require a 'We got mail' post.

Please don't tease us.

244

yesandno Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:06:30pm

Religion in Religion class or in Philosophy class...no problem
Religious texts in Literature classes...no problem
Religion in Science....no go

245

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:06:42pm

re: #227 Cato the Elder

son-in-law

246

gtrs Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:06:46pm

WE GOT MAIL! my fave..........

247

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:06:46pm

re: #235 pingjockey

Whahahaha! That'll do!

I've been playing "Another one bites the dust." a little too much thought a different song would be a nice change.

248

Mich-again Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:06:48pm

Hmm, some inconsistencies in the Education section..

1. We support parental or legal guardian choice of schooling whether public, private, or home-based... We support the constitutional right in Oklahoma for parents, even without a college degree and/or teacher’s certificate to home-school their children.

and

7. We believe in high academic standards. Promotion and graduation should be accomplished through specifically predefined standards.

And there is this

4. While the objective study of philosophy and religion can be beneficial, public schools should not be endorsing any specific religion or philosophy.

and

7. We believe that the scientific evidence supporting Biblical creation should be included in Oklahoma public schools curricula,...

249

Capitalistincharge Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:07:02pm

Whoops...can't go til I give NY Nana a huge {hug} and a tremendously huge THANKS for your advice last night. You are a treasure. I will keep y'all updated.

250

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:07:20pm

re: #231 Charles

Is your real middle name "Icarus"?

251

MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:07:45pm

re: #231 Charles

Some really wonderful hate mail coming in tonight. Might require a 'We got mail' post.

Why blast troll and mobys with a ClueZooka&trade when you can drop a ClueNuke&trade on them?

/BWAHAHAHAHAHA ;-P

252

cronus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:08:50pm

re: #234 OldLineTexan

Why? UNESCO? I would burn that trash if it came into my house.

Just seemed strange for a plank in a county party platform. Maybe there is a big pro-UNESCO coalition in Tulsa County that they need to combat?

253

Obsidiandog Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:09:39pm

Gee, if you really wanted to encourage republican voters to stay home on election day you could hardly concoct a better reason.

254

Athos Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:09:49pm

re: #241 Sharmuta

The thing is- folks who push creationism think the Founder's intent was to establish a "Christian nation". Whenever I see "Founder's intent" now, I get highly suspicious.

Great point. 'A Christian nation' is nothing but the same type of revisionist history that we take the el cubos to task for. There are the Judeo-Christian moral and ethical foundations in the minds of the Founders that are core to their values (and those of the country), but if they wanted 'a Christian nation', they would not have created the 1st Amendment as they did - but instead define the US Constitution from the getgo as establishing Christianity as the national religion.

255

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:09:53pm

re: #251 talon_262

Why blast troll and mobys with a ClueZooka™ when you can drop a ClueNuke™ on them?

/BWAHAHAHAHAHA ;-P

ClueMortar™ or ClueMor™
ClueJDAMs™
ClueMissiles™
ClueBombs™
ClueTanks™

256

Digital Display Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:10:24pm

Oh My! triple overtime Chicago beats the World Champs..Can't wait for game 7. This game will always be a classic..
Did I not say the other night that Noah is just a monster? He plays the pro game just like he played in College..150% all the time..He won 2 national championships...His hustle play and dunk will be a top 10 highlights on ESPN in the morning..
Whoa..just whoa

257

Dr. Shalit Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:10:50pm

re: #212 buzzsawmonkey

And with his energy-saving invention of the storm window, Jefferson would be the darling of the Green folks.

buzzsawmonkey -

Thomas Jefferson, in his mind, was a "Good Steward" of his resources, which included SLAVES. For his day, he was. To Thomas Jefferson, SLAVERY was a problem to be sorted out in a later day - i.e. After His Death. Have met and Known "Black Jeffersons."re: #241 Sharmuta

That is all.

-S-

258

Euler Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:11:06pm

Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.

Completely apart from the creation science nonsense, just how does one legislate "professional respect"? Sounds like another thought crime. These are coming from both left and right. While we're at it, let's legislate compassion, wisdom, and humility.

259

Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:12:48pm

re: #251 talon_262

Why blast troll and mobys with a ClueZooka&trade when you can drop a ClueNuke&trade on them?

/BWAHAHAHAHAHA ;-P

Youtube Video

One clue nuke coming up. Super effective against the biggest trolls.

260

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:13:13pm

re: #248 Mich-again

I don't see the first pair as contradictory.

The second pair is pretty funny, though.

261

itellu3times Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:13:28pm

re: #228 OldLineTexan

Chief White Halfoat would not approve.

Chief White Halfoat?

Who promoted Major Major?

262

cronus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:14:58pm

re: #241 Sharmuta

The thing is- folks who push creationism think the Founder's intent was to establish a "Christian nation". Whenever I see "Founder's intent" now, I get highly suspicious.

One would also think the founders intended the establishment clause to be enforced, otherwise why go to the trouble to include it.

263

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:15:50pm

re: #252 cronus

Just seemed strange for a plank in a county party platform. Maybe there is a big pro-UNESCO coalition in Tulsa County that they need to combat?

UNESCO has made some strange moves that some Dems seem to support ... I may not agree with these folks in OK ... but they aren't completely stupid or blind.

264

OldLineTexan Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:17:00pm

re: #261 itellu3times

Chief White Halfoat?

Who promoted Major Major?

The White Halfoats were chased all over Oklahoma.

265

NY Nana Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:18:10pm

re: #249 Capitalistincharge

I am soooo glad that the hospital did what they should have in the first place. But if Pink Freud hadn't emailed me, I would never have known last night. We owe her the thanks.

Just take care of yourself. The parents do a lot of worrying. It is in fine print on our job description. And keep on getting good news!

266

calcajun Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:18:49pm

re: #261 itellu3times

Chief White Halfoat?

Who promoted Major Major?

That was an IBM machine with a sense of humor.

267

gmsc Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:19:45pm

re: #257 Dr. Shalit

Have met and Known "Black Jeffersons."re: #241 Sharmuta

That is all.

-S-

What is Sherman Helmsley like in real life?

////

*ducks*

268

calcajun Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:21:17pm

re: #257 Dr. Shalit

I'm learning more about Jefferson. The fact is that for most of the 1790's, he could not have freed his slaves even if he had wanted to. He had secured loans against them--they were collateral. His creditors would not have liked the security for their loans being "liquidated" without their approval.

269

NY Nana Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:22:45pm

re: #203 pink freud

You win! ;)

270

BlueCanuck Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:26:19pm

re: #261 itellu3times

I knew a Sargeant Sargeant. :)

271

Mich-again Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:34:53pm

How about this line the anti-vaxers convinced the committee to sneak in.

5. We support the right of parents to apply for exemptions for their children from school vaccinations requirements for medical reasons, religious reasons, or other reasons of conscience.

They would lose my vote right there.

272

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:35:49pm

re: #271 Mich-again

How about this line the anti-vaxers convinced the committee to sneak in.

They would lose my vote right there.

Good find!

273

Irenicum Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:36:13pm

re: #10 brent

"where does a conservative with a brain turn any more?"
A good question. I'm still searching.

274

cronus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:54:52pm

re: #271 Mich-again

13. We strongly oppose all foreign breakfast items including Belgian Waffles, French Toast and English Muffins.

275

Mich-again Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:55:48pm

re: #272 Gus 802

I read the whole thing and I would say I probably agree with about 80% of it and would even say Hell Yeah to some of the statements, but it went too far right at a few points. It tries too hard to touch every base and in doing so turns into mush.

276

zelnaga Thu, Apr 30, 2009 8:57:33pm

re: #71 buzzsawmonkey

"Having a big tent"--especially if it's morning in America--has certain implications that some people would probably rather avoid.

I'm familiar with the notion of a big tent - it's a party that tries to appeal to everyone and in so doing, risks potentially appealing to no one.

What I'm not so familiar with is what the "morning in America" comment is referring to. Any ideas?

277

Gus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 9:01:41pm

re: #275 Mich-again

I read the whole thing and I would say I probably agree with about 80% of it and would even say Hell Yeah to some of the statements, but it went too far right at a few points. It tries too hard to touch every base and in doing so turns into mush.

Yeah, it's not all bad and I do agree with many parts of it. Of course the creationist, vaccine, and some of the education issues are rather extreme and stand out due to their importance. I would have stricken all of that out and it could have been sufficient.

278

SpaceJesus Thu, Apr 30, 2009 9:04:13pm

you couldn't pay me enough space money to live in oklahoma

279

Zimriel Thu, Apr 30, 2009 9:29:05pm

You've known me long enough to guess what I'm about to say... but I have no problem using the Bible as a primary text in an Iron Age, Fertile-Crescent history class. It's about the only text that survives from that place and time.

I wouldn't use it as a secondary text because the Deuteronomist is a biased historian, but as a primary text the books of Kings are more right than wrong...

280

Zimriel Thu, Apr 30, 2009 9:33:34pm

Okay, I admit it, my #279 was a devils'-advocate troll post. I know as well as you do that Oklahoma is not about to bring in Baruch Halpern or Emmanuel Tov to teach its ninth graders how to read the Bible.

Oklahoma Republicans are about as good for that state's schools as a nice large tornado.

281

lostlakehiker Thu, Apr 30, 2009 11:04:10pm

Teachers should have the freedom to cover creation science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.

Now, puhleeze! This is lifting a page from the left, but still. Professional respect must be earned. Teachers who present the farrago called "creation science" to their students, telling them that it is science, cannot by any stretch of the imagination expect to retain much respect of the sort that scientists and teachers of science accord each other because they recognize that learning, mastering, furthering, and presenting science is a difficult and worthy calling.

Intimidation, of course, should indeed be off the table. Reprimand? That would depend on the extent of the collision between what they tell their students and what court rulings have put off limits. A teacher may legitimately be reprimanded for having dragged their school district into trouble with the law.

282

freetoken Thu, Apr 30, 2009 11:29:27pm

Just want to be sure, for the record, that it is not clear how much of the Tulsa County GOP platform the OK State GOP accepted... once again, the OK State GOP doesn't seem to be too forthcoming about what was decided on 18 April at their state convention.

However, the draft that had been adopted during 2008, which we presume is the basis for what was accepted, was bad enough. See my post here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The State wide draft included such language as:

6. We believe that in order to encourage and protect family values, those promoting homosexuality or other aberrant lifestyles should not be allowed to hold responsible positions over children, which are not their own, or other vulnerable persons.

1. Our Founding Fathers based our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights and early laws on the Bible and traditional Judeo-Christian ethics and values. We believe these documents are the basis for law, order and behavior, allowing individuals, including government workers and officials, the freedom to involve God in all activities according to their consciences.

2. We believe that homosexuality is not a genetic trait, but a chosen lifestyle.

12. We believe that government should not fund any organization that opposes the ideas and principles contained in the Republican Platform.

10. The Ten Commandments should be posted in all public schools as a means of moral guidance along with our national motto “In God We Trust” and the Bill of Rights.

13. Public schools shall not prohibit the Judeo-Christian worldview upon which our country was founded. Public schools shall be prohibited from promoting other worldviews such as, but not limited to, secular Humanism, New Age philosophy, deep ecology, reincarnation, psychotherapy, channeling, transcendental meditation, altered states of consciousness or any occult practice. [Emphasis added.]

4. Where evolution is taught, intelligent design must be taught as well. The differences between fact and theory shall be included in instruction

.
-

There should be no doubt about what the OK GOP intends for this country.

283

Salamantis Thu, Apr 30, 2009 11:39:07pm

re: #282 freetoken

They're not prohibited from promoting ecofeminism? Those folks must feel slighted...;~)

But, seriously, the Founding Fathers enshrined Enlightenment values and ideals in the US Constitution, and those values and ideals owe fully as much to Greco-Roman philosophy as they do to Judel-Christian religion.

The rest of the excepts you cite are quite simply too insane to deserve commentary.

284

freetoken Thu, Apr 30, 2009 11:51:43pm

re: #283 Salamantis

They're not prohibited from promoting ecofeminism? Those folks must feel slighted...;~)

Hey, maybe next time around the ecofeminists will get lucky and get on the list.

The thing about the item labeled "12" above... would exclude most of the gov't agencies, all of whom follow (or should) the constitution, not the Republican Platform.

285

zoidberg Fri, May 1, 2009 12:16:54am

Teachers should have the freedom to cover ~~creation~~ flat earth science without fear of intimidation, reprimand, or lack of professional respect.

That's better :)

286

theheat Fri, May 1, 2009 12:57:10am

re: #160 crosspatch

And they're doing their very best to drag the rest of us, kicking and screaming, back to the golden age of Leviticus.

Every political party has its negative stereotypes, and the GOP is unabashedly reaffirming theirs. Worse, those in the forefront of this push toward the dark ages are being heralded by high profile pundits as "true" conservatives.

287

rhymeswithright Fri, May 1, 2009 5:35:48am

Charles -- you may not like it, but the Bible is, in part, a book of history. It should be treated as such -- though that treatment has to be supplemented with other historical data, some of which is not entirely supportive of the biblical historical narrative, but much of which is broadly supportive of it.

288

Aye Pod Fri, May 1, 2009 6:59:43am

re: #287 rhymeswithright

Charles -- you may not like it, but the Bible is, in part, a book of history. It should be treated as such -- though that treatment has to be supplemented with other historical data, some of which is not entirely supportive of the biblical historical narrative, but much of which is broadly supportive of it.

LOL! And the Koran is based largely on the Bible so the same must be true of that book as well. We should teach both - as historical fact. And if any Hindu literalists start making similar noises then we should chuck in the Mahabharat as well.

"It's science class Jim, but not as we know it"

289

RhymesWithRight Fri, May 1, 2009 10:01:04am

Except, Jimmah, that there is plenty of good, solid archaeological evidence supporting large chunks of the history contained in the Bible. Why reject it -- unless you are so scared of Christianity (and Judaism) that you would reject SCIENCE out of that fear.

[Link: www.bib-arch.org...]

290

american sabra Fri, May 1, 2009 12:02:46pm

Actually, biblical archeology has discovered quite a bit that has proven the bible. Well Hebrew Bible (Torah). I know nothing about the Christian Bible.

One of the most oustanding finds in the search for King David:

It is called a "bulla," a clay disc, inscribed in ancient Hebrew script with the name of the sender as a "return address," used to seal papyrus scroll "mail." The bulla bears the name of Yehuchal Ben Shelemiah,* who is mentioned in Chapters 37 and 38 of the Book of Jeremiah. Yehuchal was one of two emissaries dispatched by King Tzidkiyahu to Jeremiah, asking him to pray for the people during the siege of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. In an about-face, Chapter 38 tells that Yehuchal was one of four ministers who asked the king to kill Jeremiah, claiming that he was demoralizing the besieged nation with his prophecies of doom and destruction.

[Link: www.aish.com...]

Biblical archeology has gone a long way to prove people, cities and situations. Genesis? Adam and Eve? Many people believe the Cave of Machpelah in Hebron (the resting place of Abraham's family) is the entrance to Eden, but like many things in the Bible (both Bibles). I think some things may never be known. That's why they call it Faith after all.

But yea, archeology has, indeed, proved much of the Torah to be historical fact.

291

Aye Pod Fri, May 1, 2009 12:48:39pm

re: #289 RhymesWithRight

So you do think that we should teach the Koran in school as well. (According to you, much of it is fact) Good to know.

292

Challenger Fri, May 1, 2009 2:00:45pm

What the heck has happened to my party? This sorts of nonsense will drive clear, logical-minded, modern-thinking people away. My support has always been to the Republicans for small government, lower taxes and a strong national defense. They've been moving away from all of those, except defense for some time now. Now this crap.

293

rhymeswithright Fri, May 1, 2009 7:13:37pm

re: #291 Jimmah

So you do think that we should teach the Koran in school as well. (According to you, much of it is fact) Good to know.

To the degree that it can be verified by outside evidence that is scientifically valid, I already do.

294

Charles Johnson Fri, May 1, 2009 10:23:42pm

re: #289 RhymesWithRight

Except, Jimmah, that there is plenty of good, solid archaeological evidence supporting large chunks of the history contained in the Bible. Why reject it -- unless you are so scared of Christianity (and Judaism) that you would reject SCIENCE out of that fear.

[Link: www.bib-arch.org...]

You're posting this as if it's uncontroversial proof that the Bible is a historical document, but that is simply not true:

Questioning The Integrity of Biblical Archaeology.

295

Charles Johnson Fri, May 1, 2009 10:25:06pm

And more skepticism about the claims made by "Biblical archaeologists:" Archaeology and Biblical Accuracy.

296

Charles Johnson Fri, May 1, 2009 10:26:30pm

Imagine my surprise to discover that "Biblical archaeology" is a branch of "creation science": Biblical archaeology - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science

297

Smorgasbord Sat, May 2, 2009 2:38:46am

I have a simple solution to whether or not creationism should be taught in school. Teach the basics of ALL religions. The schools teach the ancient Greek religious beliefs, so why not teach the basics of ALL of them.

Just touch on the GENERAL beliefs. Of course, to be fair in teaching the Islamic religion, they would have to teach that members are required to convert or kill, and if they leave Islam they should be killed. As the Christian religion has the 10 commandments, the Islam religion should have the 10 "Thou shall kill them if..." commandments. There are probably more than ten, but how many times can they kill you?

The goods and bads could be taught of all of the religions. It would actually help the kids make up their own minds if they want to belong to a religion, and if they do, which one.

298

RhymesWithRight Sat, May 2, 2009 9:44:39am

Yeah, Charles, you do have the truly outrageous folks you have cited. I'm with you in rejecting them.

On the other hand, I cited a mainstream source that is based upon scholarly research and which publishes works by respected experts in the fields of history and archaeology. Why won't you deal with that in an honest fashion rather than dismissing it out of hand?

Dare I suggest that your own fundamentalism is showing? Dare I suggest that you have become so dead-set against the extreme claims of the creationist zealots that you have become a dogmatic Dawkins-esque figure on all things Christian, seeming to presume that ANY claim of truth coming from a religious source must be rejected, regardless of its having been corroborated by good science and good scholarship?

299

Charles Johnson Sat, May 2, 2009 9:46:35am

re: #298 RhymesWithRight

Yeah, Charles, you do have the truly outrageous folks you have cited. I'm with you in rejecting them.

On the other hand, I cited a mainstream source that is based upon scholarly research and which publishes works by respected experts in the fields of history and archaeology. Why won't you deal with that in an honest fashion rather than dismissing it out of hand?

Dare I suggest that your own fundamentalism is showing? Dare I suggest that you have become so dead-set against the extreme claims of the creationist zealots that you have become a dogmatic Dawkins-esque figure on all things Christian, seeming to presume that ANY claim of truth coming from a religious source must be rejected, regardless of its having been corroborated by good science and good scholarship?

Dare I suggest that you no longer have an account at LGF?

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