Fables of the Reconstruction

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Opinion • Sat May 2, 2009 at 12:06 pm PDT • Views: 295

Here’s a very good piece by Deborah Rudacille (author of The Scalpel and the Butterfly and The Riddle of Gender) on the DHS “right wing extremism” report, and the absurd over-reaction from conservative bloggers and politicians, featuring some words from yours truly: Fables of the Reconstruction.

The report is a straightforward assessment of a potential threat to national security, saying that, “Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first African-American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new members, mobilize existing supporters and broaden their scope and appeal through propaganda.”

Of greatest concern to law enforcement officials is “the high volume of purchases and stockpiling of weapons and ammunition by rightwing extremists” and the possibility that the groups may try to recruit disaffected military veterans for their weapons expertise.

Conservative pundits, radio hosts and bloggers immediately accused the DHS of criminalizing dissent, creating such a ruckus that even some of their allies became exasperated.

“I read the report and didn’t see anything objectionable in it,” said Charles Johnson, co-founder of Pajamas Media and creator of the blog Little Green Footballs. “All groups need to denounce those kind of activities.”

Conservative critics of the report “are acting as if they’ve adopted the mantle of right-wing extremism,” Johnson said. “How self-defeating is that?”

The furious right-wing reaction to the report is especially hard to understand given the evidence that some of these extremists are already acting on their beliefs. …

Daniel Knight Hayden, 52, was arrested by FBI agents before he was able to carry out his plan to start a war against the U.S. government with a massacre on the steps of the Oklahoma City Capitol Building during one of the tea party tax protests on April 15.

According to an article in Wired, “Hayden’s  MySpace page is a breathtaking gallery of right wing memes about the ‘New World Order,’ gun control as Nazi fascism, and Barack Obama’s covert use of television hypnosis, among many others.”

Hayden’s MySpace page is still up and includes a link to a video of radio host and “documentarian” Alex Jones, whom Charles Johnson calls “an all-purpose conspiracy guy” and the source of many of the less rational anti-Obama stories which find their way onto conservative radio shows, cable TV and blogs. Poplawski, too, was a fan of Jones.

The “conspiracy madness” that started filtering into the media last year has become even more troubling since the election of President Obama, Johnson says. “Scarcely a day goes by that some crazy story doesn’t come out. People who swallow these theories refuse to hear, or deny or ignore evidence to the contrary.” The latest story making the rounds is that swine flu is a government plot.

People who should know better spread such misinformation, Johnson says, because “they treat politics as sports. You have to stick to your team no matter what and always bash the other guy no matter what.”

Read the whole thing…

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265 comments

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1 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:10:52pm

100+ days in and the Right fringe is frothing and foaming at the mouth as bad as the Left fringe after a number of years. This is just downright scary, and things are not looking up for any moderation in the near future.

2 Tumulus11  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:11:01pm

. My team doesn't include neo-Nazis and kooks.

3 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:12:29pm

re: #2 Tumulus11

. My team doesn't include neo-Nazis and kooks.

This "team comes first" crap is the main reason why I am a Conservative Independent.

4 Bubblehead II  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:14:14pm

Still, Johnson doesn’t favor restricting free speech, even for the Alex Jones’ of this world. “My own opinion is that the proper remedy for bad speech is more speech, to criticize this stuff. I just wish more bloggers on the right would step back from the brink a little.”

Unfortunately, too many have already gone over the edge.

5 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:14:59pm

It's troublesome that there are folks who will swallow whatever kookspiracy that comes down the pike. World nut daily is now promoting a story that the government is collecting DNA samples of babies to launch a eugenics program. And people will believe this! Stunning.

6 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:15:16pm

re: #4 Bubblehead II

Unfortunately, too many have already gone over the edge.

And did so quite willingly.

7 jcm  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:15:44pm

Awww shucks, a perfectly good panic ruined!

///

8 Van Helsing  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:16:18pm

re: #1 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ding ding ding.
I believe we have a winner, Alex.

9 jcm  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:16:38pm

re: #4 Bubblehead II

Still, Johnson doesn’t favor restricting free speech, even for the Alex Jones’ of this world. “My own opinion is that the proper remedy for bad speech is more speech, to criticize this stuff. I just wish more bloggers on the right would step back from the brink a little.”

Unfortunately, too many have already gone over the edge.

Everyone is jumping off the bridge, aren't you?

// revised advise from Mom.

10 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:17:03pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

It's troublesome that there are folks who will swallow whatever kookspiracy that comes down the pike. World nut daily is now promoting a story that the government is collecting DNA samples of babies to launch a eugenics program. And people will believe this! Stunning.

And the conspiracy belief only gets stronger over time no matter what evidence is produced or how many denials are put out.

nirth certifikit and JFK are two examples.

11 Athos  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:17:14pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

It's revolting at the efforts that some of these cretins will take to exploit the fear and angst of so many in an effort to make a buck.

12 Bubblehead II  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:18:51pm

re: #1 FurryOldGuyJeans

What I am dreading is another Randy Weaver/Ruby Ridge incident here in Idaho. Something about the Panhandle reagion of this State seems to draw the wack jobs.

13 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:19:06pm

re: #11 Athos

It's revolting at the efforts that some of these cretins will take to exploit the fear and angst of so many in an effort to make a buck.

I told freetoken the other night that perhaps Franklin was wrong and there are three constants in Life- death, taxes and charlatans.

14 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:20:33pm

This has been fun, an ALL ANTI-FASCIST SATURDAY.

I've going to have to head out for work in a few minutes. Keep whacking a fascist for me.

15 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:20:47pm

I believe in Free Speech.

I believe you have the right to Free Speech, and so do I.

I don't believe anyone has the right to screech in my ear, and I gave up trying to find my way through half-crazy (or full-crazy) rants.

Just a philosophy.

/For chuckles, though, I do enjoy a complete loon-bat website, especially if aliens or crop circles gets involved.

16 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:21:00pm

re: #12 Bubblehead II

What I am dreading is another Randy Weaver/Ruby Ridge incident here in Idaho. Something about the Panhandle reagion of this State seems to draw the wack jobs.

The way things are I would not doubt that some folks on the fringe might just got loopy enough to cause a self-fulfilling prophesy of government crackdown happen.

17 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:21:28pm

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

This has been fun, an ALL ANTI-FASCIST SATURDAY.

I've going to have to head out for work in a few minutes. Keep whacking a fascist for me.

Have a good day Walter!

18 Bubblehead II  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:21:45pm

re: #9 jcm

No, I am afraid my Bungee Cord might break.

19 Van Helsing  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:21:54pm

re: #12 Bubblehead II

What I am dreading is another Randy Weaver/Ruby Ridge incident here in Idaho. Something about the Panhandle reagion of this State seems to draw the wack jobs.

I think I'll have to disagree there.
Nutjobs, for sure. They don't generally become dangerous until something sets 'em off.

20 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:22:21pm

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

This has been fun, an ALL ANTI-FASCIST SATURDAY.

I've going to have to head out for work in a few minutes. Keep whacking a fascist for me.

Ugh, work. You keep using that dirty word. ;)

Enjoy your day, Walter. :)

21 BignJames  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:22:23pm

re: #12 Bubblehead II

What I am dreading is another Randy Weaver/Ruby Ridge incident here in Idaho. Something about the Panhandle reagion of this State seems to draw the wack jobs.


I'm no Randy Weaver fan, but the govt. owns half the blame for that fiasco.

22 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:22:25pm

re: #1 FurryOldGuyJeans

100+ days in and the Right fringe is frothing and foaming at the mouth as bad as the Left fringe after a number of years. This is just downright scary, and things are not looking up for any moderation in the near future.

Do you really think so? The left was pretty rabid for a while there. Hell, they STILL are.

As far are the right's reaction, if you mean the tiny, tiny, tiny number of truly looney "right wing" kooks, they were mad before that DHS report came out. I would say that a much larger number of people on the left hated GWB and despised him no matter what he did. The level of vitriol is no where near that from the rank and file on the right. Only the crackpots on the edges.

Some of the people on the right overreacted and tried to make hay out of it and that is not good. But, I still disagree with Charles' take on that memo. Was it legit? Did it make valid points? Yes, without a doubt. But, I question the timing of the release and the political motivations behind it. In my mind, that report was nothing but a political hit piece released on the eve of the "tea parties" designed to negate and taint the people attending. I think that was the motivation of many who complained about it (me included), not the actual contents.

23 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:24:49pm

re: #19 Van Helsing

I think I'll have to disagree there.
Nutjobs, for sure. They don't generally become dangerous until something sets 'em off.

What about that nut recently starting a shoot-out because he believe O was soon going to start confiscating guns? The tinder is dry, the match is lit, it won't take much to start the conflagration. Not something to be happy about.

24 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:25:33pm

A very difficult issue that will come from this is that the msm/left/democrat consortium will, in their world, successfully lump the mad hatters on the right with the sane conservatives.
So, not only do we have to battle the full out assault on capitalism, we have to battle the fascists on the far right.
What a wonderful world. /

25 zeebeach  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:26:19pm

re: #22 Desert Dog

I agree with everything you said in that post. Thanks.

26 BlueCanuck  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:26:23pm

re: #10 FurryOldGuyJeans

And the conspiracy belief only gets stronger over time no matter what evidence is produced or how many denials are put out.

nirth certifikit and JFK are two examples.

You wouldn't believe how many people up here believe there was a conspiracy to assasinate JFK. I think the best t.v. show episode was "Quantum Leap" when Sam leaped into Lee Harvey Oswald. Best line was at the end of the two parter. Essentially it boils down to, people refuse to believe that a lone maniac is capable of taking out the most powerful man in the nation.

27 UberInfidel67  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:27:30pm

re: #23 FurryOldGuyJeans

The one who shot the police officers? He was a nut WAAAY before Obi got elected. Obi was but just one of his grievances in his whacked out mind.

28 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:27:30pm

re: #22 Desert Dog

Yes, I truly and really do believe so, otherwise I wouldn't have said what I did.

But continue not seeing the forest because there are so many trees in the way. I won't stop you from refusing to see the fringe on both sides are wrong.

29 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:28:00pm

re: #24 Taqyia2Me


A very difficult issue that will come from this is that the msm/left/democrat consortium will, in their world, successfully lump the mad hatters on the right with the sane conservatives.


The MSM/leftsts/Dems don't need to lump conservatives in with the nuts because the conservatives are lumping themselves in with the nuts voluntarily.

30 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:28:30pm

re: #27 UberInfidel67

The one who shot the police officers? He was a nut WAAAY before Obi got elected. Obi was but just one of his grievances in his whacked out mind.

It still was the catalyst, no matter how whacked out he was prior.

31 Van Helsing  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:28:35pm

re: #23 FurryOldGuyJeans

What about that nut recently starting a shoot-out because he believe O was soon going to start confiscating guns? The tinder is dry, the match is lit, it won't take much to start the conflagration. Not something to be happy about.

You are correct.
Be ready, but don't be part of the problem.
Not directed at you specifically, FOGJ.

32 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:30:53pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

The MSM/leftsts/Dems don't need to lump conservatives in with the nuts because the conservatives are lumping themselves in with the nuts voluntarily.

I so hope you are wrong...if ever conservative core principles needed to be offered, the time is now.

33 MandyManners  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:30:58pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

The MSM/leftsts/Dems don't need to lump conservatives in with the nuts because the conservatives are lumping themselves in with the nuts voluntarily.

Lemme' know when folks like Newt hang out with the Nazis.

34 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:31:45pm

re: #28 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yes, I truly and really do believe so, otherwise I wouldn't have said what I did.

But continue not seeing the forest because there are so many trees in the way. I won't stop you from refusing to see the fringe on both sides are wrong.

Huh?

35 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:32:07pm

re: #23 FurryOldGuyJeans

What about that nut recently starting a shoot-out because he believe O was soon going to start confiscating guns? The tinder is dry, the match is lit, it won't take much to start the conflagration. Not something to be happy about.

I really think you have to distinguish between someone who is clinically insane, and just batshit insane, like some Freepers who haven't entertained a moderate thought since 1965.

36 Van Helsing  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:32:28pm

meanwhile, back at the ranch, Citigroup it seems like the evil capitalists just keep slapped by the gubmint.

37 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:32:46pm

re: #31 Van Helsing

You are correct.
Be ready, but don't be part of the problem.
Not directed at you specifically, FOGJ.

I am ready but I really, really don't want to have to take action if at all possible.

And even if it had been directed at me, no biggie. I'm used to having people not understand nor like my positions and opinions. ;)

38 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:34:28pm

re: #35 capitalist piglet

I really think you have to distinguish between someone who is clinically insane, and just batshit insane, like some Freepers who haven't entertained a moderate thought since 1965.

The way the fringe is going I am not seeing a whole lot that is allowing for distinctions to being made.

39 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:34:43pm

Of greatest concern to law enforcement officials is “the high volume of purchases and stockpiling of weapons and ammunition by rightwing extremists” and the possibility that the groups may try to recruit disaffected military veterans for their weapons expertise.

I guess if we were nice and just went out our purchasing in a "non-threatening" manner (to the Government), they'd back off?

Apply the massive run on a product (in this case weapons) to any other like situation: Bets are the "item" will be heavily taxed...like. let's say tobacco products, and the law will go into effect 01 Jul 09. Would you expect many would run out and begin purchasing all they could afford? Would you also figure prices would rise and shortages would occur? Why? Do they buy it so they can sneak into people's homes at night an force them to smoke/chew, etc so they gtet lung cancer? No. they are reacting as most do: Get it while you can afford it.

Yes, they waepons are dangerous. So have been the millions upon millions of them already owned,.

Yes, sometimes someone shoots someone. Sometimes they use a Louisville Slugger, too. Will we monitor "right wing extremists" at eh ball parks and sporting goods stores from now on?

Oh, and a little history on stockpilign weapons: Geuss what? Plenty of Communists (lefties) stockpiled weapons, actually illegally, in may countries around the world to carry out the historically noted revolutions...but, now here, in the land of the Free, it's the right wing people to be monitored.

If you can prove to me that no Democrat/liberal (L or l) owns a weapons (or illegally possesses it), it's bow to your wisdom. Short of that, if you break the law, don't blame me if you and I may share even one political outlook.

The 2nd was to protect the citizens from an over reaching government, like that of England, not to protect the Government from the people. My 2Cents: If the Government behaved morally, then what would anyone, on either side, have to actually complain about?

So, welcome to the land of the 1st Amendment, if you can keep it.

40 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:36:06pm

bad spelling abounds...sorry...new glasses and passion got in the way

41 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:36:27pm

re: #34 Desert Dog

Huh?

I despise and oppose the fringe on both sides of the political spectrum. You seem to want to excuse and ignore the Right so you can demonize the Left.

At least that is what I gathered from what you wrote.

42 zeebeach  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:36:35pm

re: #23 FurryOldGuyJeans

What about that nut recently starting a shoot-out because he believe O was soon going to start confiscating guns? The tinder is dry, the match is lit, it won't take much to start the conflagration. Not something to be happy about.

Yes, that is scary, but it's one total nutjob, not a society of nutjobs, not a community of nutjobs - just a garden variety sociopath. Did he really go over the edge because he thought "O" would confiscate guns? I don't know. But one guy losing it doesn't mean the "right wing extremists", particularly as they were (very poorly) defined in the DHS memo are all going crazy. If I got all my news and information here, I would have missed a very peaceful and enjoyable tea party (that had no RP infiltration that I could see). It looks like everyone's looking for a reason to freak out.

43 vxbush  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:37:09pm

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

This has been fun, an ALL ANTI-FASCIST SATURDAY.

I've going to have to head out for work in a few minutes. Keep whacking a fascist for me.

Break a leg, Walter.

44 Devil's Advocate  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:37:29pm

The media is getting to be pretty ridiculous when talking about Justice Souter. Here is everything you need to know.

45 Van Helsing  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:37:35pm

re: #37 FurryOldGuyJeans

I'm glad you got what I meant, not what I typed.

I don't want things to drop in the pot. I'm waaayyy too old for that kind of shit.
On the other hand, I'm waayyy too old to put up with CRBBHOs agenda, too.

I hate commies. I really, really, do.

46 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:38:02pm

re: #33 MandyManners

I was referring to stuff like this...
We are all fringe rightwing extremists now!
and this...
Confirmed: The Obama DHS hit job on conservatives is real

Better make a few last-minute signs for the Tea Party. Obama’s DHS is watching:

Honk if you’re a radicalized rightwing extremist!

Guilty of rightwing extremist chatter

Anti-government, pro-freedom: Sue me

47 Van Helsing  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:39:51pm

re: #15 EmmmieG

I believe in Free Speech.

I believe you have the right to Free Speech, and so do I.

I don't believe anyone has the right to screech in my ear, and I gave up trying to find my way through half-crazy (or full-crazy) rants.

Just a philosophy.

/For chuckles, though, I do enjoy a complete loon-bat website, especially if aliens or crop circles gets involved.

Somewhere along the line we lost the concept of 'fighting words'.
What the hell do I know, i favor duelling, too.

48 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:40:16pm

re: #42 zeebeach

A lone nut can and has changed history before.

As I see things the radicalization of the late 60's and the 70's is being resurrected, just dressed up differently. I opposed it then, and I will oppose it now.

49 MandyManners  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:40:28pm

re: #46 Killgore Trout

I think some of it is tongue-in-cheek and hasty reaction.

50 jcm  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:41:13pm

re: #18 Bubblehead II

No, I am afraid my Bungee Cord might break.

51 Bubblehead II  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:41:57pm

re: #19 Van Helsing

re: #21 BignJames

Sorry about the delay in replying, trying to phrase my response so that it sounds reasonably sane. :-)

Agreed, It was the Governments attempt to get him to act as a stooge and then trying to burn him with the shotguns that set the situation up and we all know how it ended

And there is nothing that can prevent a repeat of that type of incident with some other paranoid wack job. Especially the ones who are wigging out over those DHS memos.

I just don't want to see it happening again. Unfortunately, I fear it will

52 SpaceJesus  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:42:15pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

The MSM/leftsts/Dems don't need to lump conservatives in with the nuts because the conservatives are lumping themselves in with the nuts voluntarily.


either voluntarily or by not condemning the crazies in their ranks enough

53 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:42:20pm

re: #38 FurryOldGuyJeans

The way the fringe is going I am not seeing a whole lot that is allowing for distinctions to being made.

See, I disagree with that. I think it's hyperbole. The vast majority of Americans, whatever whacky beliefs they have on the left or right, are law-abiding and have no intention of being anything but.

Let's not blow it out of proportion.

54 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:43:55pm

re: #53 capitalist piglet

See, I disagree with that. I think it's hyperbole. The vast majority of Americans, whatever whacky beliefs they have on the left or right, are law-abiding and have no intention of being anything but.

Let's not blow it out of proportion.

Gee, when does the FRINGE mean majority? So really are you disagreeing or not understanding what I write?

55 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:44:36pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

either voluntarily or by not condemning the crazies in their ranks enough

Okay, I CONDEMN CRAZIES. Now what?

What do you guys want? And please, make it something within our control.

56 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:46:00pm

re: #55 capitalist piglet

Okay, I CONDEMN CRAZIES. Now what?

What do you guys want? And please, make it something within our control.

Keep doing what you are doing, speaking out and proclaiming the majority is NOT the FRINGE.

57 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:46:50pm

re: #41 FurryOldGuyJeans

I despise and oppose the fringe on both sides of the political spectrum. You seem to want to excuse and ignore the Right so you can demonize the Left.

At least that is what I gathered from what you wrote.

Hardly, but since you and I are about 99% in agreement on just about everything here, I will not make a big deal about it. I share your disapproval of the nuts, kooks and loonies, be they right or left. I was just responding your assertion that the right is now just as bad as the left when it comes to "fringe-frothing". I cannot disagree with the fact that the idiots on the right are going crazy over everything real and imagined about Obama. I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the "fringe" on the left was a lot closer to the mainstream left than the current crop of rightwing nutjobs are to the mainstream of the right. But, that is my opinion and you are free to have yours :-)

58 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:47:31pm
59 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:49:03pm

re: #57 Desert Dog

Hardly, but since you and I are about 99% in agreement on just about everything here, I will not make a big deal about it. I share your disapproval of the nuts, kooks and loonies, be they right or left. I was just responding your assertion that the right is now just as bad as the left when it comes to "fringe-frothing". I cannot disagree with the fact that the idiots on the right are going crazy over everything real and imagined about Obama. I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the "fringe" on the left was a lot closer to the mainstream left than the current crop of rightwing nutjobs are to the mainstream of the right. But, that is my opinion and you are free to have yours :-)

The fucking FRINGE is what I am railing against, not the majority who just want to be left in peace to live their lives as they see fit.

60 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:49:23pm

re: #54 FurryOldGuyJeans

Gee, when does the FRINGE mean majority? So really are you disagreeing or not understanding what I write?

I understand what you write, Furry. You seem to write the same thing a hundred times a day.

You just seemed to say that some guy who shot police officers was a sample of what's really going on out there on the far right. I am trying to convince you not to take such a hyperbolic approach. One or two people does not a significant sample make.

Even people we would all consider "FRINGE" are not contemplating killing police officers at this moment, but if you want to argue that, then you'll have to define what you consider "FRINGE".

61 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:50:23pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

either voluntarily or by not condemning the crazies in their ranks enough

And, the left? They are self-policing? Keep a tight leash on their loonies, do they?

62 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:52:48pm

re: #60 capitalist piglet

I understand what you write, Furry. You seem to write the same thing a hundred times a day.

You just seemed to say that some guy who shot police officers was a sample of what's really going on out there on the far right. I am trying to convince you not to take such a hyperbolic approach. One or two people does not a significant sample make.

Even people we would all consider "FRINGE" are not contemplating killing police officers at this moment, but if you want to argue that, then you'll have to define what you consider "FRINGE".

The THINKING on the far right fringe, the Obama is going to take our guns as one example, is EXACTLY what set the guy off, no matter how insane he was before. The same whacked out thinking produced Oklahoma City.

63 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:53:55pm

Why are so many freaks drawn to the Oklahoma City area? Tim McVeig and Terry Nichols, the guy with the backpack bomb outside the OU/USU game, and this Hayden freak, and the guy at the end of this article:

Aryan Nations Member Arrested at Group's Headquarters

Posted: April 28, 2004


Karl Gharst, a member of the neo-Nazi group Aryan Nations, was arrested at the home of Aryan Nations founder Richard Butler in Hayden, Idaho, on April 20, 2004, for allegedly threatening to kill a social worker in Montana.

Gharst, 43, was charged in Flathead County, Montana with threatening and harassing an employee of the Montana Department of Public Health and Human Services, after the agency took custody of his children. He faces up to 10 years in prison if convicted.

According to the criminal complaint, Gharst issued a series of threats to various employees at the agency from April through November 2001. In one instance he warned a secretary to leave the building because "a group was forming in Kalispell to come in and gather up all the lesbians and mongrels and evil people."

During one of several phone calls to the victim, Gharst identified himself as "a white man, [which] makes me a king." He went on to say that "all white people are kings and you are still a greasy turd-colored mongrel, a corruption, a racial hybrid, something god didn't create and he is about to take care of business."

In 2003, Gharst was one of three Aryan Nations members to run for public office in Hayden. Gharst and Zachery Loren Beck ran for seats on the Hayden City Council and Aryan Nations' leader, Richard Butler, ran for Mayor. "After the election," Gharst told a reporter, "We'll teach the racial message from the Father and Creator." But all three lost their races -- Gharst getting a mere 42 votes.

Since its founding, Aryan Nations has been involved in more criminal incidents than any other neo-Nazi group in the United States. In fact, while running for Mayor in Hayden, Zachery Beck was arrested for allegedly attacking a Hispanic man in a parking lot. He was charged with malicious harassment, which is a hate crime in Idaho, and is currently awaiting trail. Another member of Aryan Nations, Sean Michael Gillespie, was recently arrested in Russellville, Arkansas, for allegedly trying to firebomb a synagogue in Oklahoma City.

Gillespie hailed from Spokane, WA. What the hell was he doing in Oklahoma City, or all places?

[Link: www.adl.org...]

64 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:54:31pm

I'm sorry to go off topic, but another young, male college student's body has been discovered in a river. This has become a disturbing trend, and I agree with some investigators that a serial killer should not be excluded from the possibilities.

If you, or someone you know has a young man attending college in the upper midwest, especially a river town- be sure these young men are aware they shouldn't leave bars and parties alone.

65 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:55:14pm

re: #57 Desert Dog

Hardly, but since you and I are about 99% in agreement on just about everything here, I will not make a big deal about it. I share your disapproval of the nuts, kooks and loonies, be they right or left. I was just responding your assertion that the right is now just as bad as the left when it comes to "fringe-frothing". I cannot disagree with the fact that the idiots on the right are going crazy over everything real and imagined about Obama. I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the "fringe" on the left was a lot closer to the mainstream left than the current crop of rightwing nutjobs are to the mainstream of the right. But, that is my opinion and you are free to have yours :-)

Side note: I have yet to read about masses of "Conservatives" storming Code Pink and Acorn Offices, smashing their windows, not to mention any city councils trying to legislate same offices to outside their jurisdictions. I have seen Zombie's pics of the Code Pinkos at the Marine Recruitment Station in SF, tho.

No RWC (Right Wing Crazies) living in trees for months on end...

I think most conservatives, and actually most ot them to the moderate, to the sensible Democrats, go about life and work and leave the idiocy to the children of hippies, or the hippies. Which by their self-proclaimed nature, are on the left.

So, either the MSM is covering up for the millions of RWCs, or they are't much of a factor, but they exist...and so powerful are they, that one of them is the moral equivalent of hundreds of lefties...think about that for a moment.

Forget Bill Ayrers actually tried killing government people, now hem, by the grace of the American Legal System walks free and claims he didn't try hard enough. Toss Ward Churchill in that heap, too, while I'm on the subject.

66 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:55:41pm

re: #63 funky chicken

The site of the bombing is a Holy Site to the fringe because it shows to them that people can resist an evil government bent on destroying America.

I don't endorse the thinking, just come in contact with it.

67 Geepers  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:55:57pm
Of greatest concern to law enforcement officials is “the high volume of purchases and stockpiling of weapons and ammunition by rightwing extremists”

Taking that statement at face value (I'm not exactly sure about the amount of volume of stockpiling by rightwing extremists), the fact of the matter is that they are a concerned because those people might actually use those weapons to fight for their beliefs as opposed to the tree-hugging hippies who like to chant and sing.

Oddly enough the gun-toters routinely get their asses handed to them by the save-the-worlders.

68 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:56:24pm

re: #63 funky chicken

Perhaps because OKC is a pretty diverse city compared to other midwestern towns. We've got a significant asian, hispanic, and black population.

69 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:57:15pm

re: #62 FurryOldGuyJeans

The THINKING on the far right fringe, the Obama is going to take our guns as one example, is EXACTLY what set the guy off, no matter how insane he was before. The same whacked out thinking produced Oklahoma City.

Excuse me, but how on earth do you know EXACTLY what set this guy off? Answer: You don't. For all you know it was the dog peeing on the floor or mama jumping his back about something. I don't see how you can make a statement like that unless you were there.

70 MandyManners  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:58:12pm

re: #58 Iron Fist

Rowan's Wiki:

Rowan gained public notoriety on June 14, 1988, when he shot a teenage trespasser, Neil Smith, who was using Rowan's swimming pool in Washington, D.C.. Rowan used an unregistered .22 LR pistol. Critics charged hypocrisy, since Rowan was a strict gun control advocate. In a 1981 column, he advocated "a law that says anyone found in possession of a handgun except a legitimate officer of the law goes to jail—period." In 1985, he called for "A complete and universal federal ban on the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of handguns (except for authorized police and military personnel)." [2] [3]

Immediately after the shooting, Rowan offered several conflicting accounts about where he got the handgun. He first said that he had purchased the gun himself in response to threats on his life (which he later claimed had been made by the Ku Klux Klan). He also initially claimed that the gun had been properly registered. However, when District of Columbia police disclosed that the gun had not been registered, Rowan changed his story, claiming that the gun belonged to his son, who "was an FBI agent and did not have to register it [because it was] properly registered federally." Police officials pointed out that under D.C. law, all guns must be registered locally; failure to do so was punishable by up to a year in prison and a $1,000 fine.

Rowan was tried but the jury was deadlocked, the judge declared a mistrial and he was never retried. In his autobiography, Rowan said he still favors gun control, but admits being vulnerable to a charge of hypocrisy.[4]

71 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:58:12pm

re: #65 Curt

The kooks on each side choose different methods, the Left fringe knows they have a friendly propaganda arm to highlight their moonbattery. The right fringe won't get the VIP treatment.

72 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:58:17pm

re: #65 Curt


No RWC (Right Wing Crazies) living in trees for months on end...

Oh there are. They are just with camouflage

73 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:58:29pm

re: #62 FurryOldGuyJeans

The THINKING on the far right fringe, the Obama is going to take our guns as one example, is EXACTLY what set the guy off, no matter how insane he was before. The same whacked out thinking produced Oklahoma City.

Okay, that's two kooks. You've got a ways to go.

Whatever the "THINKING" is, that "THINKING" has to become the action of more than a handful out of millions before it is evidence of a pattern, does it not?

And I take it you don't think the Left has any designs on inhibiting gun rights. I don't know what Obama is thinking in that regard (he often says one thing and does quite another), but there is a pattern on that side of the ideological divide that prevents me from completely relaxing on the topic.

Does my concern for the Second Amendment make me "FRINGE"?

74 zeebeach  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:59:02pm

re: #48 FurryOldGuyJeans

A lone nut can and has changed history before.

As I see things the radicalization of the late 60's and the 70's is being resurrected, just dressed up differently. I opposed it then, and I will oppose it now.

I know what you mean, I opposed it and still oppose it, also. But I won't tell others they "can't see the forest for the trees", just because their degree of concern may be less (or more) than mine. Everyone (and by that I mean every American) doesn't see the situation exactly as I see it. All we can do is disseminate the information available to us and make our judgement. I believe vigilance is necessary. That is why I come here. I'm not going to turn against the conservative party or ANY group on weak evidence that one or two of them are crazy.

75 Shug  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:59:41pm
“an all-purpose conspiracy guy”

Sounds like something from Billy Mays

76 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:59:57pm

re: #73 capitalist piglet

Okay, that's two kooks. You've got a ways to go.

Whatever the "THINKING" is, that "THINKING" has to become the action of more than a handful out of millions before it is evidence of a pattern, does it not?

And I take it you don't think the Left has any designs on inhibiting gun rights. I don't know what Obama is thinking in that regard (he often says one thing and does quite another), but there is a pattern on that side of the ideological divide that prevents me from completely relaxing on the topic.

Does my concern for the Second Amendment make me "FRINGE"?

I am railing against the RIGHT fringe because, gee, that is the topic of the thread? If Charles were to start one about the LEFT fringe you would see I would be just a strongly against them.

77 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:00:11pm

re: #64 Sharmuta

I'm sorry to go off topic, but another young, male college student's body has been discovered in a river. This has become a disturbing trend, and I agree with some investigators that a serial killer should not be excluded from the possibilities.

If you, or someone you know has a young man attending college in the upper midwest, especially a river town- be sure these young men are aware they shouldn't leave bars and parties alone.

Horrible. I have a brother in that area. Thanks for the heads up, Sharm.

78 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:00:46pm

re: #68 ConservatismNow!

Perhaps because OKC is a pretty diverse city compared to other midwestern towns. We've got a significant asian, hispanic, and black population.

Eh, I grew up in Kansas City, and it's not all that white either. You want a city as white as snow? Colorado Springs comes close.

79 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:01:18pm

re: #76 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am railing against the RIGHT fringe because, gee, that is the topic of the thread? If Charles were to start one about the LEFT fringe you would see I would be just a strongly against them.

And the msm narrative on the right fringe: evil incarnate.
The left fringe: to be loved and adored.

80 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:01:26pm

re: #77 capitalist piglet

You're welcome. To tell the trust- I believe it is a serial killer. Don't let your brother walk home alone- please.

81 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:01:59pm

re: #78 funky chicken

Eh, I grew up in Kansas City, and it's not all that white either. You want a city as white as snow? Colorado Springs comes close.

Indianapolis is another one from what I saw. My dad lived an hour south of Kansas City. Dang good barbeque.

82 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:02:35pm

re: #79 Taqyia2Me

And the msm narrative on the right fringe: evil incarnate.
The left fringe: to be loved and adored.

I despise and resist both.

83 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:03:47pm

re: #76 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am railing against the RIGHT fringe because, gee, that is the topic of the thread? If Charles were to start one about the LEFT fringe you would see I would be just a strongly against them.

My last post in this exchange - it's not worth bickering about, but you can have the last word.

I'm not in any way suggesting that there is no right fringe, or that the new topic of this thread should be the left fringe.

I am asking you not to overstate the connection between one obviously ill individual who very unfortunately succeeded in some sick fantasy of killing police officers, and other people on what we call "the fringe" who have never dreamed of doing such a thing.

You don't want to do that. Okay.

84 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:04:01pm

re: #82 FurryOldGuyJeans

I despise and resist both.

Me too but don't hold your breath for them to be treated equally in the msm.

85 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:04:34pm

re: #80 Sharmuta

LOL @ me. "To tell the trust"! Should be "truth". Oh well.

86 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:04:48pm

re: #81 ConservatismNow!

Indianapolis is another one from what I saw. My dad lived an hour south of Kansas City. Dang good barbeque.

Indy? Lilly White? Bite your tongue..Indy is a wonderful, diverse city..very clean also and America's Amateur Sports Capital..The NCAA is here

87 Shug  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:05:09pm

re: #84 Taqyia2Me

Me too but don't hold your breath for them to be treated equally in the msm.

oh well.

Irrational indivuals are ...irrational.

I prefer being intellectually honest.

88 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:05:13pm

re: #84 Taqyia2Me

Me too but don't hold your breath for them to be treated equally in the msm.

I expect Charles to make kissy face with Robert and Pamela long before getting equal treatment from the FMSM.

89 shiplord kirel  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:05:29pm

Somebody has to say it. This seething and frothing in response to half-truths and half-baked conspiracy claims surely seems familiar, doesn't it?

I am not suggesting that our nut fringe is equivalent to the crazed masses of the Muslim world, but they are on the same road.

90 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:05:46pm

re: #85 Sharmuta

LOL @ me. "To tell the trust"! Should be "truth". Oh well.

LOL
I have done that so many times..
*wink*

91 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:06:23pm

re: #89 shiplord kirel

Somebody has to say it. This seething and frothing in response to half-truths and half-baked conspiracy claims surely seems familiar, doesn't it?

I am not suggesting that our nut fringe is equivalent to the crazed masses of the Muslim world, but they are on the same road.

Truth and facts is inimical to crazies of all stripes.

92 Animal  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:06:33pm

re: #11 Athos

It's revolting at the efforts that some of these cretins will take to exploit the fear and angst of so many in an effort to make a buck.

Let's face it, there are few more reliable ways to make a buck.

93 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:06:42pm

re: #85 Sharmuta

LOL @ me. "To tell the trust"! Should be "truth". Oh well.

I do that all the time! I often type the word that's going through my head at the moment, instead of the word I intend to type.

94 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:06:46pm

re: #62 FurryOldGuyJeans

The THINKING on the far right fringe, the Obama is going to take our guns as one example, is EXACTLY what set the guy off, no matter how insane he was before. The same whacked out thinking produced Oklahoma City.

How often has targeting crimes of the mind/thought process turned out to anything other than a disaster (think the Communist system) for humanity and human rights?

We are not the Borg. If anything, I'd ascribe Borg like "hive mind" behavior to other than the Right, but then that's only based on my experience in life.

The President is for gun control. Eric Holder is for gun control. A Democratically control Congress is very anti-2nd Amendment. HR 45 has been introduced. The President is also for taking a large portion of our earning in direct taxes, cap-and-trade offshoots, and mandatory health care, and he's going after all of those things with a great passion.

In your opinion, is it irrational to believe this President would actually try to severely restrict the ownership of guns? I'll agree it is illegal and illogical to use this belief to commit a crime, but not criminal to consider the path the Government is taking.

95 nyc redneck  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:07:12pm

first and foremost these s.o.b's are criminals at heart.
if they move beyond their rhetoric and break the law, they need to be arrested and put away.
i don't consider them conservatives. they are kooks. just like leftist kooks.
law enforcement should be vigilant on these crazies but we should not claim
them as our problem even tho the msm will force that issue, to further their
agenda.
i'm not going to be intimidated by the idea that what these radicals do is a reflection on me and what i believe. i have nothing in common w/ these extremists.
we need to spend time and energy focusing on what makes conservatism a
sounder more desirable for of gov't that big lib socialism.

96 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:08:08pm

re: #88 FurryOldGuyJeans

I expect Charles to make kissy face with Robert and Pamela long before getting equal treatment from the FMSM.

Good to know you feel the same about the FMSM as any objective, logical mind would!

97 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:08:14pm

re: #72 ConservatismNow!

Oh there are. They are just with camouflage

Yes, but they are helping to keep the animal population in control, while putting food on their tables...not to stop legitimate commerce...and they come down to get beer...

98 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:08:22pm
99 MacDuff  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:08:29pm

re: #22 Desert Dog

Do you really think so? The left was pretty rabid for a while there. Hell, they STILL are.

As far are the right's reaction, if you mean the tiny, tiny, tiny number of truly looney "right wing" kooks, they were mad before that DHS report came out. I would say that a much larger number of people on the left hated GWB and despised him no matter what he did. The level of vitriol is no where near that from the rank and file on the right. Only the crackpots on the edges.

Some of the people on the right overreacted and tried to make hay out of it and that is not good. But, I still disagree with Charles' take on that memo. Was it legit? Did it make valid points? Yes, without a doubt. But, I question the timing of the release and the political motivations behind it. In my mind, that report was nothing but a political hit piece released on the eve of the "tea parties" designed to negate and taint the people attending. I think that was the motivation of many who complained about it (me included), not the actual contents.

I'll not let myself be defined by my critics. I know myself to be an honorable man and a member of the loyal opposition. There are extremes at both ends of the spectrum and if someone thinks that, just because I am right of center in my politics, that makes me a threat, well, that simply shows their ignorance.

I, for one, am going to spend my time bitching about things that really matter, rather than this BS.

100 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:09:11pm

This is just a random side thought: The true right-wing wackos (and there is such a creature) plots and gathers guns and make threats and usually grows more paranoid by the day. The people in a position to see that best are those close to them, family usually.

It has got to hurt like crazy to turn in a relative you believe is dangerous, but people do it. My hat is off to them.

101 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:09:26pm

Real world economic news and financial advice...
Bob Brinker Live

102 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:10:04pm

re: #69 pink freud

Excuse me, but how on earth do you know EXACTLY what set this guy off? Answer: You don't. For all you know it was the dog peeing on the floor or mama jumping his back about something. I don't see how you can make a statement like that unless you were there.

A note left behind giving the reasons why tell me what the man was thinking.

If I am mistaken in recalling one was left, then I will take the hit and acknowledge I was wrong on that point.

103 MandyManners  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:10:43pm

The Kid has a very strange bite on his arm so we're off to the E.R..

104 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:11:12pm

re: #96 Taqyia2Me

Good to know you feel the same about the FMSM as any objective, logical mind would!

Oh god, who ever said I was objective and logical? I never did! ;)

105 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:11:16pm

re: #99 MacDuff

I'll not let myself be defined by my critics. I know myself to be an honorable man and a member of the loyal opposition. There are extremes at both ends of the spectrum and if someone thinks that, just because I am right of center in my politics, that makes me a threat, well, that simply shows their ignorance.

I, for one, am going to spend my time bitching about things that really matter, rather than this BS.

You just responded to this "BS" by posting a comment about it, too late :-)

Ok, let's have a more substantive post then, we are waiting...

106 ladycatnip  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:11:19pm

I'm remembering 8 years of BDS. 8 years of posters on Daily Kos and Huffpo wishing death on Bush, Rove, Cheney, et al., almost on a daily basis. AirAmerica Radio hosts were unable to have a civil conversation with anyone opposing them but just spewed names and hatred; movies of Bush's assassination were made, books were written about the same theme and with nary a peep that I recall from any mainstream lefties.

What concerned me was it appeared the mainstream left started meshing with the loony left until over time they became one voice. And that one voice was what got Obama elected.

We can't afford to even come close to meshing with anything the fringe right says or does. Aside from self-policing, it's about the need for the public to hear sane, intelligent conservative radio hosts and bloggers denouncing these kooks.

107 sattv4u2  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:11:47pm

re: #103 MandyManners

The Kid has a very strange bite on his arm so we're off to the E.R..

Why did you bite him? You're usually more of a WHACK-A-MOM,. no ?

///j/k

Good call taking him to get it checked

Good luck!

108 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:12:26pm

re: #93 capitalist piglet

I'm just a bit shaken thinking of these young men being targeted. Girls know there is better safety in numbers, but our young men have never really been taught to be cautious about their security in a similar way. They think they're invincible.

The one thing that disturbed me about that video was there was one young woman who went missing and was also found in a river. She had short hair- I think she should be included as a possible victim of this potential spree.

109 SummerSong  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:12:43pm

I just saw a "Newsmax Emergency Radio" being advertised on TV. Is that why they stoke fear on their website?

110 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:13:17pm

re: #103 MandyManners

Thoughts and prayers from me to the kid and you that is something that can be treated effectively and completely.

111 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:13:28pm
112 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:14:04pm

re: #108 Sharmuta

I'm just a bit shaken thinking of these young men being targeted. Girls know there is better safety in numbers, but our young men have never really been taught to be cautious about their security in a similar way. They think they're invincible.

The one thing that disturbed me about that video was there was one young woman who went missing and was also found in a river. She had short hair- I think she should be included as a possible victim of this potential spree.

The way boys are being raised now, in part, by some is that they deserve what happens since they are inferior to girls. Militant feminism is reaping what they sowed.

113 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:14:09pm

Here's another important post for you all to digest:

Cop Wins Donut Eating Contest for 3rd Straight Year

114 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:14:48pm

re: #112 FurryOldGuyJeans

No boy deserves to be murdered.

115 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:14:53pm

re: #109 SummerSong

I just saw a "Newsmax Emergency Radio" being advertised on TV. Is that why they stoke fear on their website?

An emergency radio is a wonderful thing to have, especially in areas that are hotspots for tornadoes and hurricanes. Can't go wrong having one, even if you only ever need it a time or two. What's this about "stoking fear"?

116 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:15:51pm

re: #111 Iron Fist

I see too often news stories reporting homes getting raided and large caches of weapons and ammo being discovered. Nearly the only time I read about any stockpiles when it is some right fringe.

117 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:16:50pm

re: #63 funky chicken

wow...typo queen

118 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:16:50pm

re: #22 Desert Dog

Do you really think so? The left was pretty rabid for a while there. Hell, they STILL are.

As far are the right's reaction, if you mean the tiny, tiny, tiny number of truly looney "right wing" kooks, they were mad before that DHS report came out. I would say that a much larger number of people on the left hated GWB and despised him no matter what he did. The level of vitriol is no where near that from the rank and file on the right. Only the crackpots on the edges.

Some of the people on the right overreacted and tried to make hay out of it and that is not good. But, I still disagree with Charles' take on that memo. Was it legit? Did it make valid points? Yes, without a doubt. But, I question the timing of the release and the political motivations behind it. In my mind, that report was nothing but a political hit piece released on the eve of the "tea parties" designed to negate and taint the people attending. I think that was the motivation of many who complained about it (me included), not the actual contents.

Yeah. That was one thing I didn't see or hear at the Tea Parties. Rabid frothing.

119 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:16:57pm

re: #112 FurryOldGuyJeans

The way boys are being raised now, in part, by some is that they deserve what happens since they are inferior to girls. Militant feminism is reaping what they sowed.

What a load of crap.

120 irongrampa  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:17:17pm

re: #111 Iron Fist

I see this also. So what gives here?

121 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:17:29pm

muslima.com? on the sidebar advertisement

is that new?

122 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:17:51pm

re: #114 Sharmuta

No boy deserves to be murdered.

No they don't. I never even remotely meant to imply that was the case. Just as women had been considered chattel in the past, and still are in some cultures, now boys are getting the brunt of that indoctrination here.

123 Piglet-U93  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:18:24pm

OT

My father died of cancer which had taken over multiple organs and systems despite treatment.

I am taking a leave of absence from LGF. Keep my account open. Should Islam have taken over in the meantime, well, that will be the end of another struggle for existence.

DAM & LLTI & DTI (don't ask, figure it out for yourselves)

Goodbye :)

124 sattv4u2  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:19:34pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

OT

My father died of cancer which had taken over multiple organs and systems despite treatment.

I am taking a leave of absence from LGF. Keep my account open. Should Islam have taken over in the meantime, well, that will be the end of another struggle for existence.

DAM & LLTI & DTI (don't ask, figure it out for yourselves)

Goodbye :)

God be with you, Piglet. Hurry back

125 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:19:39pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

OT

My father died of cancer which had taken over multiple organs and systems despite treatment.

I am taking a leave of absence from LGF. Keep my account open. Should Islam have taken over in the meantime, well, that will be the end of another struggle for existence.

DAM & LLTI & DTI (don't ask, figure it out for yourselves)

Goodbye :)

Piglet, I am so sorry for your loss. Come back to us when you feel up to it, please.

126 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:20:06pm

re: #94 Curt

How often has targeting crimes of the mind/thought process turned out to anything other than a disaster (think the Communist system) for humanity and human rights?

We are not the Borg. If anything, I'd ascribe Borg like "hive mind" behavior to other than the Right, but then that's only based on my experience in life.

The President is for gun control. Eric Holder is for gun control. A Democratically control Congress is very anti-2nd Amendment. HR 45 has been introduced. The President is also for taking a large portion of our earning in direct taxes, cap-and-trade offshoots, and mandatory health care, and he's going after all of those things with a great passion.

In your opinion, is it irrational to believe this President would actually try to severely restrict the ownership of guns? I'll agree it is illegal and illogical to use this belief to commit a crime, but not criminal to consider the path the Government is taking.

Well said. (or written)

127 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:20:16pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

OT

My father died of cancer which had taken over multiple organs and systems despite treatment.

I am taking a leave of absence from LGF. Keep my account open. Should Islam have taken over in the meantime, well, that will be the end of another struggle for existence.

DAM & LLTI & DTI (don't ask, figure it out for yourselves)

Goodbye :)

Godspeed, Piglet.

128 Cathypop  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:20:28pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

OT

My father died of cancer which had taken over multiple organs and systems despite treatment.

I am taking a leave of absence from LGF. Keep my account open. Should Islam have taken over in the meantime, well, that will be the end of another struggle for existence.
Death sucks!

DAM & LLTI & DTI (don't ask, figure it out for yourselves)

Goodbye :)

129 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:20:31pm

re: #119 pink freud

What a load of crap.

What exactly is crap? That there is such indoctrination?

130 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:20:33pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

{Piglet-U93}
God be with you. Please accept my sympathy.

131 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:21:21pm

re: #122 FurryOldGuyJeans

No they don't. I never even remotely meant to imply that was the case. Just as women had been considered chattel in the past, and still are in some cultures, now boys are getting the brunt of that indoctrination here.

Are you saying that boys in America are being indoctrinated - as were women in the past - to consider themselves or be considered chattel? If so, we must live on different planets.

132 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:22:00pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

OT

My father died of cancer which had taken over multiple organs and systems despite treatment.

I am taking a leave of absence from LGF. Keep my account open. Should Islam have taken over in the meantime, well, that will be the end of another struggle for existence.

DAM & LLTI & DTI (don't ask, figure it out for yourselves)

Goodbye :)

You will be missed, hurry back.

133 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:22:33pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

God bless you and your family, Piglet. I wish you peace.

134 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:22:33pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

OT

My father died of cancer which had taken over multiple organs and systems despite treatment.

I am taking a leave of absence from LGF. Keep my account open. Should Islam have taken over in the meantime, well, that will be the end of another struggle for existence.

DAM & LLTI & DTI (don't ask, figure it out for yourselves)

Goodbye :)

I am sorry for your loss..I got a call at 4am Valentines Day that my mother had passed.. May God grant you peace in your heart..Be strong for your family
Kind Regards

135 SummerSong  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:22:41pm

re: #115 pink freud

An emergency radio is a wonderful thing to have, especially in areas that are hotspots for tornadoes and hurricanes. Can't go wrong having one, even if you only ever need it a time or two. What's this about "stoking fear"?

I may be mistaken, but I believe I heard (read) here that Newsmax is considered an unreliable source of info and that their links are not welcome here? I stopped reading there for that reason. When they run with rumors, it stokes fear, in my mind.

I own an emergency radio. I agree with you that they are a good thing! I guess I just don't want one from Newsmax.

136 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:23:00pm

re: #131 pink freud

Are you saying that boys in America are being indoctrinated - as were women in the past - to consider themselves or be considered chattel? If so, we must live on different planets.

What's a chattel? Excuse me, my feed trough is being filled.

///

137 Bubblehead II  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:23:20pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

My condolences.
Rejoin us when you are able

138 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:23:33pm

re: #131 pink freud

Are you saying that boys in America are being indoctrinated - as were women in the past - to consider themselves or be considered chattel? If so, we must live on different planets.

Not exactly the same, but there is a strong push by some elements to emphasize girls and their at the expense of boys.

139 sattv4u2  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:23:40pm

re: #129 FurryOldGuyJeans

What exactly is crap? That there is such indoctrination?

In a word.

NO

In several

No. Not really. Back in the early to mid 90s there were pushes of the "indoctrination" of which you speak, mainly in the public school forum. (get rid of the football program becasue it diverts moeny that could be used for girls activities, etc) But it is now so far and few between it's not even worth a mention

140 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:23:58pm

re: #129 FurryOldGuyJeans

What exactly is crap? That there is such indoctrination?

Yes.

141 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:24:30pm

re: #140 pink freud

Yes.

Well, then we should agree to disagree.

142 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:25:00pm

OT

Vista users who have a problem with being told LGF's site cannot be found - listen up.

Go to our Windows Security Center
Turn off User Account Control.

I'm the only one using my comp, so this is not a problem for me. It is working so far.

This is the program that constantly asks your permission to continue. I'm thinking that it needs permission for some fricking, stupid, anal reason but can't ask for it, goes in circles, and then smoke comes out of its ears, and it blocks the site.

Here is where I got the tip to try this: [Link: forums.techguy.org...]

143 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:25:21pm

re: #111 Iron Fist

That depends on what you consider "stockpiling". Depending on the person, I've seen as little as two or three guns and a small quantity of ammunition called a "stockpile". None of which, BTW, make it illegal. If someone want to buy a couple of hundred rifles and a couple of hundred thousand rounds of ammunition, that is legal too.

Current demand is far too high be considered just "fringe" demand. Unless, of course, you call support of the Second Amendment "fringe" in and of itself. Personally, I'm surprised that demand has carried on as long and strong as it has. It is far higher now than it was say, in 1994. And has lasted far longer than I would have expected. It doesn't look like it will taper off anytime soon, and this is in the face of nearly a year of solid judicial wins by the pro-Second Amendment side of the arguement.

There were 60-odd House Democrats who said earlier this year that they will kill anything in the House at least for this session of congress.

But, as we've seen so many times before, many of these "representatives" can be bought with enough campaign money or pork. I certainly don't trust anything anyone in congress says anymore.

144 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:25:34pm

re: #136 ConservatismNow!

What's a chattel? Excuse me, my feed trough is being filled.

///

Chattel is someone's property. FOGJ set forth the premise.

145 zeebeach  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:25:38pm

re: #103 MandyManners

Hope everything's alright, Mandy.

146 sattv4u2  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:26:07pm

re: #135 SummerSong

I heard (read) here that Newsmax is considered an unreliable source of info and that their links are not welcome here? I stopped reading there for that reason.

Sorry of this upsets anyone, but I would read and judge on my own weather a source is credible or not, instead of taking someones word for it!

Just one mans humble opinion

147 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:26:27pm

If there is indoctrination, it's not working. I don't think I've ever met a single boy or man who felt he was inferior in any way to a girl. ; )

148 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:27:28pm

re: #142 Cattt

Only Microsoft could find a way to screw up something totally unrelated to the app/issue at hand. ;)

149 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:27:31pm

re: #131 pink freud

Are you saying that boys in America are being indoctrinated - as were women in the past - to consider themselves or be considered chattel? If so, we must live on different planets.

I have to agree with JOGJ here. Boys are being raised differently these days. I have three of them under 19. Girls used to have the disadvantage in education years ago, but that pendulum has swung to the other side now. Things that are typical "male" behaviors are either downplayed or discouraged. Political correctness and other types of societal controls are busy trying to turn little boys into something they are not.

150 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:28:31pm

re: #148 FurryOldGuyJeans

Only Microsoft could find a way to screw up something totally unrelated to the app/issue at hand. ;)

And then not tell anyone anything about it. Fortunately, there are geeks to ask.

151 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:28:44pm

re: #147 capitalist piglet

If there is indoctrination, it's not working. I don't think I've ever met a single boy or man who felt he was inferior in any way to a girl. ; )

Hey, be quiet woman! If we want to hear from you, we'll slap it out of you!

///

152 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:29:39pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

I have to agree with JOGJ here. Boys are being raised differently these days. I have three of them under 19. Girls used to have the disadvantage in education years ago, but that pendulum has swung to the other side now. Things that are typical "male" behaviors are either downplayed or discouraged. Political correctness and other types of societal controls are busy trying to turn little boys into something they are not.

You are agreeing with something entirely different than what FOGJ actually posted. He said:

"The way boys are being raised now, in part, by some is that they deserve what happens since they are inferior to girls. Militant feminism is reaping what they sowed."

153 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:29:56pm

re: #151 Desert Dog

Hey, be quiet woman! If we want to hear from you, we'll slap it out of you!

///

My best friends, Smith and Wesson, will be happy to meet you half way. :D

154 avanti  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:30:06pm

re: #67 Geepers

Taking that statement at face value (I'm not exactly sure about the amount of volume of stockpiling by rightwing extremists), the fact of the matter is that they are a concerned because those people might actually use those weapons to fight for their beliefs as opposed to the tree-hugging hippies who like to chant and sing.

Oddly enough the gun-toters routinely get their asses handed to them by the save-the-worlders.

I think it's time for BHO to repeat his comments about not going after anyone's guns to calm the right. I don't think all the pledges in the world are getting through.Maybe even some sort of bill to ban legislation while he is in office. The Democrats know gun control is a losing issue anyway, so why not spell it out ?

155 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:30:31pm

re: #151 Desert Dog

Hey, be quiet woman! If we want to hear from you, we'll slap it out of you!

///

"Excuse me, Roger. Do I have permission to initiate physical contact upon your person?"
"Lemme think...NO!"

Ahh I love the Terry Tate, Office Linebacker videos.

156 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:30:32pm

re: #146 sattv4u2

I heard (read) here that Newsmax is considered an unreliable source of info and that their links are not welcome here? I stopped reading there for that reason.

Sorry of this upsets anyone, but I would read and judge on my own weather a source is credible or not, instead of taking someones word for it!

Just one mans humble opinion

Well, there are some sites Charles has said no to having links posted here. He never has said someone is not free to read them on their own, though.

157 sattv4u2  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:30:52pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

Political correctness and other types of societal controls are busy trying to turn little boys into something they are not

feh ,, thats why Call Of Duty, Halo, et al are the most popular video games nowadays.

Must be all those teenage girls buying them, huh !?!?!

///

158 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:31:04pm

re: #153 Cattt

My best friends, Smith and Wesson, will be happy to meet you half way. :D

Hey, it's all in fun. I am one of the good guys, just ask my lovely wife, the poor, long suffering Mrs. Desert Dog.

159 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:31:53pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

I have to agree with JOGJ here. Boys are being raised differently these days. I have three of them under 19. Girls used to have the disadvantage in education years ago, but that pendulum has swung to the other side now. Things that are typical "male" behaviors are either downplayed or discouraged. Political correctness and other types of societal controls are busy trying to turn little boys into something they are not.

You said it better than I did. Everyone wanted to jump on chattel and accuse me of going hyperbolic all over again. ;)

160 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:32:05pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

I agree that there is a feminization of our society going on, to its detriment - but isn't that different than teaching boys they are "inferior"? (We've kind of morphed away from that word in the discussion, but that was the original premise.) Are your boys being taught that girls are better than they are?

161 sattv4u2  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:32:19pm

re: #156 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, there are some sites Charles has said no to having links posted here. He never has said someone is not free to read them on their own, though.

Thats my point. I would NEVER link to a site Charles has said no-no too

But that alone does not stop me from LOOKING at said site and judging on my own!

162 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:32:22pm
163 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:32:36pm

re: #157 sattv4u2

Political correctness and other types of societal controls are busy trying to turn little boys into something they are not

feh ,, thats why Call Of Duty, Halo, et al are the most popular video games nowadays.

Must be all those teenage girls buying them, huh !?!?!

///

World of Warcraft - which, surprisingly to me - seems to about as popular with females as it does with males!

164 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:34:30pm

re: #160 capitalist piglet

I agree that there is a feminization of our society going on, to its detriment - but isn't that different than teaching boys they are "inferior"? (We've kind of morphed away from that word in the discussion, but that was the original premise.) Are your boys being taught that girls are better than they are?

I see that very feminization as being at its very core an issue of superiority or inferiority. You might see it differently.

165 sattv4u2  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:34:58pm

re: #163 pink freud

World of Warcraft - which, surprisingly to me - seems to about as popular with females as it does with males!

My 15 year old son has a very wide and eclectic circle of freinds. All religions, ethnicities, backgrounds and genders. To a "man" each male plays each of the games stated. There is not ONE female that even OWNS an X-Box, or PS 3

166 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:35:02pm

re: #163 pink freud

World of Warcraft - which, surprisingly to me - seems to about as popular with females as it does with males!

Yep. My best friend's daughter is completely addicted to that game.

167 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:35:45pm

re: #163 pink freud

World of Warcraft - which, surprisingly to me - seems to about as popular with females as it does with males!

Isn't Everquest a hit with the distaff as well?

168 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:35:47pm

re: #160 capitalist piglet

I agree that there is a feminization of our society going on, to its detriment - but isn't that different than teaching boys they are "inferior"? (We've kind of morphed away from that word in the discussion, but that was the original premise.) Are your boys being taught that girls are better than they are?

I don't think boys are being taught that they are inferior. And, like you said, it's hard to find a man or boy that would admit they are! I think that in an effort to make the playing field level for both genders, the males have been getting the short end of the stick lately. For many years, it was the girls that were shortchanged by society...held back because of their gender. Now, it's the boys that are being restrained

169 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:36:03pm

re: #159 FurryOldGuyJeans

I'm so glad I was not raised that way. Listen to the song "I'm Still a Guy" by Brad Paisley. That's me.

These days there's dudes getting’ facials
Manicured, waxed, and Botoxed
With deep spray-on tans and creamy lotiony hands
You can't grip a tackle box

Yeah with all of these men linin’ up to get neutered
And headin’ out to be feminized
But I don't highlight my hair, I've still got a pair
Yeah honey, I'm still a guy

Oh, my eyebrows ain't plucked, there's a gun in my truck
Oh thank God I'm still a guy

170 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:36:16pm

re: #167 FurryOldGuyJeans

Isn't Everquest a hit with the distaff as well?

Never heard of that one.

171 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:36:53pm

re: #148 FurryOldGuyJeans

Only Microsoft could find a way to screw up something totally unrelated to the app/issue at hand. ;)

I like Microsoft..Wish I could have worked for them out of College and be driving a Bentley right now...Back in the day..When I worked for the Gov't and was a shareware programmer..My Compiler got corrupted by a Virus..I wrote Microsoft an email in Pine ( If you don't know what pine is..LOL skip this post)
Microsoft replaced my C Compiler for free...I've always liked those folks..they get a bad rap...

172 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:38:03pm

re: #153 Cattt

My best friends, Smith and Wesson, will be happy to meet you half way. :D

But 1/2 way only may get 1/2 the story...better to go all the way and make your point...:)

173 pink freud  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:38:24pm

re: #168 Desert Dog

I don't know so much that it's primarily a matter of restraint, DD. What I see happening is a cultural/societal effort to moderate and mediate the natural and normal effects of testosterone.

174 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:38:27pm

re: #170 pink freud

Never heard of that one.

Everquest was the first really popular internet only mult-player game. Also known as Evercrack from the addiction people had for playing it literally days on end.

175 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:39:21pm

re: #164 FurryOldGuyJeans

I see that very feminization as being at its very core an issue of superiority or inferiority. You might see it differently.

*apology for jumping into a conversation I was not a part of at the start*

I see it as a pendulum thing. The pendulum swung too far one way, frankly for most of history. That doesn't excuse swinging back too far the other way, however.

176 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:39:34pm

re: #164 FurryOldGuyJeans

I see that very feminization as being at its very core an issue of superiority or inferiority. You might see it differently.

I'd have to think about that more than I have. I don't like what I see happening to boys, the attempts to make them softer - but I just don't know if the attempt to make them softer is the same as telling them they're inferior.

Girls, at the same time, are being taught to be tougher, less girly, more self-sufficient - does that mean they are being told they must change and are therefore inferior, too? I can't imagine the people behind this movement would cop to that.

177 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:40:35pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

I like Microsoft..Wish I could have worked for them out of College and be driving a Bentley right now...Back in the day..When I worked for the Gov't and was a shareware programmer..My Compiler got corrupted by a Virus..I wrote Microsoft an email in Pine ( If you don't know what pine is..LOL skip this post)
Microsoft replaced my C Compiler for free...I've always liked those folks..they get a bad rap...

I live close to the Redmond HQ and have always found the hatred against MS a bit strange. While I don't agree on the pricing they put on the OS, they have made the situation affordable for the average person.

178 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:41:16pm

I'm reading a book now where the "inferior sex" thing is a back theme. The society is matriarchal, but some of the women in control in one territory are totally abusing their power. This started small but spread, because the worst abusers eliminated those women who didn't go along with them.

Some of the men gradually start "breaking" young women who will be in power in the future, so as to eliminate the threat. The two sides gradually pretty much destroy the territory, and the people stream into other territories. Those territories see a sharp rise in crime and put strict immigration controls on.

179 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:41:47pm

re: #166 capitalist piglet

Yep. My best friend's daughter is completely addicted to that game.

That some females find war games fun or stimulating doesn't surprise me. I know three or four women in the military right now, and they have as much of a warrior mentality as any man. Sometimes even I fall into the trap of thinking that women are only soft and fragile until I start remembering some of our best warriors: Joan of Arc, Margeret Thatcher, Golda Meier (sp), etc.

180 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:43:06pm

re: #176 capitalist piglet

That's a pretty good point. Social engineering should stop anyways. I think we as a society in America have reached a point where anybody can pursue any career they wish, barring physical and mental limitations.

181 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:44:08pm

re: #176 capitalist piglet

I'd have to think about that more than I have. I don't like what I see happening to boys, the attempts to make them softer - but I just don't know if the attempt to make them softer is the same as telling them they're inferior.

Girls, at the same time, are being taught to be tougher, less girly, more self-sufficient - does that mean they are being told they must change and are therefore inferior, too? I can't imagine the people behind this movement would cop to that.

Changing their nature I consider is teaching them to be inferior. They are not taught to be THEMSELVES. The icing on the cake is that by teaching girls to be more like boys used to be shows, at least for me, the deliberateness of the indoctrination. If boys are not better than girls, then why teach girls to be boys? And if girls are not inferior to boys, then why teach boys to be girls?

182 Bearster  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:44:09pm

If "left" means the collectivism of anti-rich, anti-white, anti-male, anti-judeo-christian, anti-human (as opposed to animals and "the environment"), and anti-western civilization...

...and "right" means the collectivism of anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-brown, anti-corporation, and anti-everything else...

then HELP! I don't want to be either left or right or squeezed in the middle of their power plays!

The answer to Reverend Wright is not Adolph Hitler!

Can someone please stop the world so I can hop off?

183 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:44:14pm

Heck- all I wanted to do was warn young men in college river towns to not leave bars and parties alone. All these young men ending up dead in rivers after leaving parties- something's not right. These young men need to start traveling together when walking home after drinking.

184 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:44:39pm

re: #166 capitalist piglet

Yep. My best friend's daughter is completely addicted to that game.

WoW is pretty good.

I personally prefer games where you can blow up space ships or kill giant mutated post-nuclear war things, but that's just me. :D

185 Wendya  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:44:53pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

It's troublesome that there are folks who will swallow whatever kookspiracy that comes down the pike.


Well, that's sort of the way I feel about people claiming tax protesters are all just Ron Paul dupes and idiots.

186 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:44:56pm

re: #180 ConservatismNow!

That's a pretty good point. Social engineering should stop anyways. I think we as a society in America have reached a point where anybody can pursue any career they wish, barring physical and mental limitations.

But...the question for the "engineers" is now to compute how long it must continue in order to provide reparations...for all the years when just anyone couldn't hold just any job.

187 MacDuff  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:46:06pm

re: #105 Desert Dog

You just responded to this "BS" by posting a comment about it, too late :-)

Ok, let's have a more substantive post then, we are waiting...

Respectfully, I don't know how much more substantive I can get. If we get into a discussion about whose fringes are worse, the left or the right, or if BDS was worse than ODS, it's counter-productive because it marginalizes us and any argument we are trying to make.

How about discussing real policies and the impact of those policies on the American people?

I would suspect that you and I agree on much more than we disagree, yet here we are discussing a piece of bureaucratic prose that (I would hope) impacts neither of us. Doesn't that prove my point?

188 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:46:26pm

re: #175 EmmmieG

*apology for jumping into a conversation I was not a part of at the start*

I see it as a pendulum thing. The pendulum swung too far one way, frankly for most of history. That doesn't excuse swinging back too far the other way, however.

Each individual should be encouraged to be the best of what they can be. This social engineering throughout history is just plain wrong, no matter what the sex or capability of the individual is.

189 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:46:55pm

re: #187 MacDuff

I personally prefer no fringes. They get caught in my vacuum an entice the cats.

190 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:47:16pm

re: #177 FurryOldGuyJeans

I live close to the Redmond HQ and have always found the hatred against MS a bit strange. While I don't agree on the pricing they put on the OS, they have made the situation affordable for the average person.

I like Microsoft..But it is the classic example of getting so big so fast and so popular that the company is a target..Too bad..

191 ladycatnip  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:47:52pm

#123 Piglet-U93

I am so sorry for your loss. You and your family will be in our prayers. Peace and comfort to you all.

192 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:49:28pm

re: #184 Cattt

WoW is pretty good.

I personally prefer games where you can blow up space ships or kill giant mutated post-nuclear war things, but that's just me. :D

I don't like computer/video games that require you to continually keep on paying to play them. The license fees are high enough in my opinion that just the get the game makes my wallet weep from the loneliness.

I am eclectic in what games I play on a regular basis. At this time I am playing The Sims 2 and Baldur's Gate I & II. (well, not right at this very moment!)

193 irongrampa  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:49:30pm

re: #162 Iron Fist

Pretty much the same answer ) that I've gotten, asking some very aware people.
I share your thoughts pretty much. I tend to think that it's an unprecedented case of secure my weapons. Fine by me, but I also wonder if it will come to GIVE me your weapons and what that would mean.
I think that's a possibility, but not a probability, although the mindset in this admin, afaic, makes me think they's try it if there were any chance.

Probly paranoid,but it's unsettling.

194 Sunlight  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:49:35pm

OT: This is going to be interesting:

Michael Oren to be appointed Israel's ambassador to US

Michael Totten knows this guy and that could be some good stories from Totten!

195 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:49:37pm

re: #182 Bearster

If "left" means the collectivism of anti-rich, anti-white, anti-male, anti-judeo-christian, anti-human (as opposed to animals and "the environment"), and anti-western civilization...

...and "right" means the collectivism of anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-brown, anti-corporation, and anti-everything else...

then HELP! I don't want to be either left or right or squeezed in the middle of their power plays!

The answer to Reverend Wright is not Adolph Hitler!

Can someone please stop the world so I can hop off?

I'm not afraid to say that I'm "right-wing". It means mostly that I want a government that abides and upholds the US Constitution. If that makes me "Adolph Hitler" then...sieg heil.

196 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:49:48pm

re: #180 ConservatismNow!

That's a pretty good point. Social engineering should stop anyways. I think we as a society in America have reached a point where anybody can pursue any career they wish, barring physical and mental limitations.

I'll be honest--I wish girls could be raised by my mother. She is from a long line of strong, educated women. She didn't really want us to act like boys, she just never considered that we should act any one way to act like girls.

Learn to cook? Sure. She could use some help.

Use her power tools? Let me get you some wood.

Learn to sew? Go ahead, use my machine.

Learn to weld? She thought that sounded great, and kept my trivet out for quiet some time.

She never tried to engineer us one way or another, she just encouraged us to find our talents. I really love my mom.

197 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:50:10pm

bbiab

198 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:50:19pm

re: #123 Piglet-U93

{ { {Piglet-U93} } }

199 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:51:11pm

re: #192 FurryOldGuyJeans

I don't like computer/video games that require you to continually keep on paying to play them. The license fees are high enough in my opinion that just the get the game makes my wallet weep from the loneliness.

I am eclectic in what games I play on a regular basis. At this time I am playing The Sims 2 and Baldur's Gate I & II. (well, not right at this very moment!)

I like the online massively multiplayer games, because I like meeting other people and working in groups and stuff.

200 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:51:11pm

re: #185 Wendya

Well, that's sort of the way I feel about people claiming tax protesters are all just Ron Paul dupes and idiots.

Ding-up!

201 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:52:13pm

re: #187 MacDuff

I've enjoyed reading your posts in the past, MacDuff and look forward to reading the ones in the future too. No worries here.

202 Bearster  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:52:41pm

re: #195 Soona'

I'm not afraid to say that I'm "right-wing". It means mostly that I want a government that abides and upholds the US Constitution. If that makes me "Adolph Hitler" then...sieg heil.

If "right" meant upholding the constitution, then I would call myself "right".

But is this what "right" means today?

203 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:53:13pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

I like Microsoft..But it is the classic example of getting so big so fast and so popular that the company is a target..Too bad..

I just consider the business model they pursue as too Byzantine. It worked at the start of the PC revolution they were at the forefront of, but they have refused to change with the times and adapt to new circumstances.

Now if they were to actually LISTEN to the techies who keep telling them how to create a better OS instead of the noobs who tell them to make it look kewler, MS would be onto something.

204 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:53:43pm
205 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:54:00pm

re: #182 Bearster

anti-corporate is more leftist/anarchist

206 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:54:13pm

re: #199 Cattt

I like the online massively multiplayer games, because I like meeting other people and working in groups and stuff.

Yet are you really meeting them? ;)

207 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:55:07pm

Study: Dog Food Tastes Just Like Pâté

If the recession gets worse, we may be eating dog food for dinner.

Don't laugh. It's apparently tastier than you'd expect.

In the last few years, organic dog food made with human-grade free range meat and fresh vegetables has spiked in popularity among health-conscious shoppers. Some companies even claim, for instance, that "humans actually taste our foods, as part of our QC process!"

What's surprising is that some of the new organic dog foods taste as good as (or as bad as) similar human foods, like liverwurst and duck liver mousse, according to a working paper circulated on Friday by the American Association of Wine Economists.

The paper is titled "Can People Distinguish Pâté from Dog Food?" and it concluded that, well, they can't.

These enterprising researchers separately put organic Canned Turkey & Chicken Formula for Puppies/Active Dogs, duck liver mousse, pork liver pâté, liverwurst, and spam in a food processor. The resulting confection was ladled into five different bowls and garnished with parsley.

The volunteers in this culinary experiment didn't exactly prefer the dog food, but they couldn't identify it either. "Only 3 of 18 subjects correctly identified sample C as the dog food," the paper says.

/yummy!

208 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:55:47pm

re: #203 FurryOldGuyJeans

I just consider the business model they pursue as too Byzantine. It worked at the start of the PC revolution they were at the forefront of, but they have refused to change with the times and adapt to new circumstances.

Now if they were to actually LISTEN to the techies who keep telling them how to create a better OS instead of the noobs who tell them to make it look kewler, MS would be onto something.

Funny...they hated Apple's Mac...because of the "kewl" interface (from Xerox, BTW)...it was the invoking of the Xerox invented/Apple productionized Windows that expanded the power of humainty in their daily lives...as well as computer geeks.

A blend is necessary...and has worked.

209 MacDuff  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:55:55pm

re: #201 Desert Dog

I've enjoyed reading your posts in the past, MacDuff and look forward to reading the ones in the future too. No worries here.

Thank you Dog, I have enjoyed your posts as well. No worries here either.

210 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:56:10pm

re: #207 Killian Bundy

Study: Dog Food Tastes Just Like Pâté

/yummy!

I knew there was a reason I did not like Pate

211 ConservatismNow!  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:56:27pm

re: #192 FurryOldGuyJeans

I can see where you would think that. I disagree though. With WoW, my entertainment bill could be a mere $15 a month. Without WoW, I'm buying books, movies, games, and spending time on other hobbies. $15 vs $200-250. I'm not saying I do play WoW and only WoW all the time, but it's a pretty cheap hobby financially when compared to the alternatives.

212 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:56:38pm

re: #195 Soona'

I'm not afraid to say that I'm "right-wing". It means mostly that I want a government that abides and upholds the US Constitution. If that makes me "Adolph Hitler" then...sieg heil.

It used to be that upholding the rule of law and personal freedoms wasn't painted as being on the fringe by the FMSM.

The fringe, as I see it, want to "preserve" the Constitution by overthrowing the government by violence instead of using the ballot box.

213 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:59:56pm

re: #208 Curt

Funny...they hated Apple's Mac...because of the "kewl" interface (from Xerox, BTW)...it was the invoking of the Xerox invented/Apple productionized Windows that expanded the power of humainty in their daily lives...as well as computer geeks.

A blend is necessary...and has worked.

Don't get me wrong, that kewl user interface is needed, but if all they do is tinker with the paint scheme instead of worrying about the soundness of the foundation of the OS, the house will collapse. The list of security holes in each new release is just absolutely staggering.

Few people remember that there was an alternative to MS-DOS/Windows early on, and was created partly by MS, OS/2! Now that was a good OS that MS deliberately sabotaged.

214 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:00:03pm

re: #206 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yet are you really meeting them? ;)

Yeah, oddly enough. I have some good friends from online games. We have a chat application and talk instead of type. It's pretty cool to be able to be friends with people from all over the planet.

215 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:00:08pm

re: #196 EmmmieG

I'll be honest--I wish girls could be raised by my mother. She is from a long line of strong, educated women. She didn't really want us to act like boys, she just never considered that we should act any one way to act like girls.

Learn to cook? Sure. She could use some help.

Use her power tools? Let me get you some wood.

Learn to sew? Go ahead, use my machine.

Learn to weld? She thought that sounded great, and kept my trivet out for quiet some time.

She never tried to engineer us one way or another, she just encouraged us to find our talents. I really love my mom.

She sounds great.

My mother was physically beautiful...a professional vocalist and dancer, widely regarded as hot (though it is a strange thing to say about your mother, it's true), and she had her own power tools. I've seen her tromp through deep snow in the woods, scare off an intruder, feed a wild raccoon with her bare hands, but she was also very much a girl.

She loved the Green Bay Packers, and she loved makeup. She played bass and sang in a band until she was eighty-years old, and was the designated driver for any friend who had to go to the hospital in Madison in a snowstorm.

Quite a woman, she was. It's very possible to be female and girly, but also able to take care of yourself.

216 avanti  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:01:36pm

"After Fox News Channel's Sean Hannity made a seemingly impromptu offer last week to undergo waterboarding as a benefit for charity, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann leapt at it. He offered $1,000 to the families of U.S. troops for every second Hannity withstood the technique.

Olbermann repeated the offer on Monday's show and said in an interview Tuesday that he's heard no response. He said he'll continue to pursue it."
What a win-win deal for Hannity, ratings go nuts, the troops get money, Hannity looks great.
If he holds out for even a few minutes, he can make lots of money and show us what water boarding is like. If he held out for 20 minutes, that would be over a million dollars.

217 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:01:45pm

re: #203 FurryOldGuyJeans

I just consider the business model they pursue as too Byzantine. It worked at the start of the PC revolution they were at the forefront of, but they have refused to change with the times and adapt to new circumstances.

Now if they were to actually LISTEN to the techies who keep telling them how to create a better OS instead of the noobs who tell them to make it look kewler, MS would be onto something.

I spent 5 years of my life programming a Napa Valley tour via Hot Air balloon.
Inter active program that you hot air'd over the Valley and landed at any winery and took a complete on line tour..10 years I was stumbling with the programming..To till day I feel It has so much potential as an on-line tour..
I failed with the programming..But I tried..If I had 10000 geeks working for me I could rule the landscape! *wink*

218 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:02:32pm

re: #211 ConservatismNow!

I can see where you would think that. I disagree though. With WoW, my entertainment bill could be a mere $15 a month. Without WoW, I'm buying books, movies, games, and spending time on other hobbies. $15 vs $200-250. I'm not saying I do play WoW and only WoW all the time, but it's a pretty cheap hobby financially when compared to the alternatives.

I save that $15 by playing the games I like, and they happen to be older games that run on my older Win98SE machine. ;)

Yes, I have looked at the newer games and frankly they are all flash and no substance in my opinion. Yeah, they may look KEWL, but the game play is less than optimum.

If I want to play multi-player, I'll just crank up Diablo II or StarCraft and play for free.

219 Sunlight  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:03:42pm

re: #194 Sunlight

OT: This is going to be interesting:

Michael Oren to be appointed Israel's ambassador to US

Michael Totten knows this guy and that could be some good stories from Totten!

Michael Oren at youtube

220 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:03:43pm

re: #212 FurryOldGuyJeans

It used to be that upholding the rule of law and personal freedoms wasn't painted as being on the fringe by the FMSM.

The fringe, as I see it, want to "preserve" the Constitution by overthrowing the government by violence instead of using the ballot box.

I dunno...lots of people at the Tea Parties seemed like voting the bums out was the main theme.

No people in brown shirts marching about, recruiting for lost boy legions of ex-vets...may have been a few,...but not the vast majority.

I'm certain, if these movements were more than a few deranged people, the MSM would be happy to showcase it daily...even every 10 minutes...to the rest of us. I think the point all along is there are not any major movements running amok, so the DHS report, mentioning only one side of the political spectrum as a culprit for potential internal problems is what set people off. The Government should be dealing in the reality of the situation, to include those who would sabotage in the name of ecology, and release lab animals in the name of animal rights before research...etc.

The Government Report should have been full of fact, not used as a tool to get a political view out.

221 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:04:01pm

re: #214 Cattt

Yeah, oddly enough. I have some good friends from online games. We have a chat application and talk instead of type. It's pretty cool to be able to be friends with people from all over the planet.

I was joking. I am old enough that many of my generation still consider meeting someone actually talking to them face to face, barely close over the phone.

222 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:05:54pm

re: #220 Curt

I dunno...lots of people at the Tea Parties seemed like voting the bums out was the main theme.

No people in brown shirts marching about, recruiting for lost boy legions of ex-vets...may have been a few,...but not the vast majority.

I'm certain, if these movements were more than a few deranged people, the MSM would be happy to showcase it daily...even every 10 minutes...to the rest of us. I think the point all along is there are not any major movements running amok, so the DHS report, mentioning only one side of the political spectrum as a culprit for potential internal problems is what set people off. The Government should be dealing in the reality of the situation, to include those who would sabotage in the name of ecology, and release lab animals in the name of animal rights before research...etc.

The Government Report should have been full of fact, not used as a tool to get a political view out.

If you have read the posts Charles has been putting up a lot of "full of facts" is what is there. The tool to get out a political view is a byproduct and talking point is that of some people on the fringe.

223 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:06:14pm

re: #216 avanti

He should agree only if Olberdouche does it too.

/make it a contest to see who can last longer, for the troops!

224 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:06:39pm
225 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:07:41pm

re: #224 Iron Fist

Preserving the Constitutionby way of the ballot box was one of the big deciding factors of the 1994 elections.

Yuppers. Too bad the BBA was tossed under the bus.

226 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:09:26pm

re: #223 Killian Bundy

He should agree only if Olberdouche does it too.

/make it a contest to see who can last longer, for the troops!

Olbermann would be blubbering like a baby in no time flat. He talks big yet has no stones.

227 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:12:27pm
228 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:12:39pm

re: #202 Bearster

If "right" meant upholding the constitution, then I would call myself "right".

But is this what "right" means today?

It's a short way of expressing where one stands on matters of politics, economics, basic social outlook. Just like there are degrees of temperature, there are degrees of "right" as well as "left". Being right wing doesn't mean I'm going to go out and have a swastika tatooed on my forehead, just the same as I don't expect everyone on the left to tatoo the hammer and sickle on theirs. IMHO, I think beliefs revolve in an idealogical circle. Extreme left wing fills the exact same spot on the circle as extreme right wing.

229 Aye Pod  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:13:00pm

Good article.

People who should know better spread such misinformation, Johnson says, because “they treat politics as sports. You have to stick to your team no matter what and always bash the other guy no matter what.”

As we have been seeing for years, extreme partisanship can be a very powerful enemy of reason.

230 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:13:16pm

re: #216 avanti

From what I understand, most people can't make it past a few seconds. Also, iirc, the max allowed by the interrogators was 40 seconds, or until the subject had physical issues with breathing or started choking.

231 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:14:20pm

re: #221 FurryOldGuyJeans

I was joking. I am old enough that many of my generation still consider meeting someone actually talking to them face to face, barely close over the phone.

What generation are you? I know I SEEM like a kid, but I'm not. :D

232 SlartyBartfast  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:14:51pm

re: #210 Desert Dog

Heh. The Identity Property:

Dog food = Pate.
Pate = Dog food.

233 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:14:51pm

OT.

I just noticed the Muslima.com website advertisement on the side bar (I mentioned this earlier, I didn't realize it was there before and was wondering if this was new.)

I like the idea of the website as it reminds me of Jdate (and the women pictured are mostly smoking...almost has me ready to convert)

And it they want to pay the advertising fee's then god bless them and Charles is welcome to accept it.

However, it just strikes me as odd that they would choose to advertise on a website that has been characterized (and let me be clear INCORRECTLY !) by Ibrahim Hooper, "spokesman for the Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR) called Little Green Footballs "a vicious, anti-Muslim hate site"

I mean, they can't believe there are many muslim readers on this site, can there? Are there? I think it is great if there are but I was unaware. If there are, that's great. I welcome them.

It just strikes me as an odd choice of advertising venues from a "bang for your buck" business perspective..
Any theories?

234 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:15:57pm

re: #233 danrudy

OT.

I just noticed the Muslima.com website advertisement on the side bar (I mentioned this earlier, I didn't realize it was there before and was wondering if this was new.)

I like the idea of the website as it reminds me of Jdate (and the women pictured are mostly smoking...almost has me ready to convert)

And it they want to pay the advertising fee's then god bless them and Charles is welcome to accept it.

However, it just strikes me as odd that they would choose to advertise on a website that has been characterized (and let me be clear INCORRECTLY !) by Ibrahim Hooper, "spokesman for the Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR) called Little Green Footballs "a vicious, anti-Muslim hate site"

I mean, they can't believe there are many muslim readers on this site, can there? Are there? I think it is great if there are but I was unaware. If there are, that's great. I welcome them.

It just strikes me as an odd choice of advertising venues from a "bang for your buck" business perspective..
Any theories?

The ads are driven by keywords on the page, not by the content of the blog.

235 Catttt  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:16:04pm

re: #192 FurryOldGuyJeans

I did Sims online for a while, because a friend insisted it was fun. It was ok for a while, but it got old fast. The funniest thing that happened was when my sim and another girl sim took a nap together (not on purpose!). We both giggled a lot.

236 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:17:12pm

Ot - yes, I'm back from the theatre, get ready was fast, so I came back home. No use sitting at the theatre until 5 o'clock, with nothing to do, when I live only a couple of miles from there.

Are we still whacking fascists?

237 Noam Sayin'  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:18:10pm

When do these dang ponies run, anyway?

238 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:18:19pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

ahh...
are you saying that google selects the ads that run on a website based upon the keywords and not direct advertising with LGf/
THat makes more sense.
Thanks.

I wonder if they will be happy with their placement from Google..LOL

(BTW...I supplied you with a few more links on other thread regarding your "bomb" question

239 Soona'  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:18:31pm

re: #212 FurryOldGuyJeans

It used to be that upholding the rule of law and personal freedoms wasn't painted as being on the fringe by the FMSM.

The fringe, as I see it, want to "preserve" the Constitution by overthrowing the government by violence instead of using the ballot box.

I will join to preserve the US Constitution by whatever means possible, by good citizenship/voting, or even under arms if that ever becomes needed.

240 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:18:34pm

re: #236 Walter L. Newton

Ot - yes, I'm back from the theatre, get ready was fast, so I came back home. No use sitting at the theatre until 5 o'clock, with nothing to do, when I live only a couple of miles from there.

Are we still whacking fascists?

Hey Walter..Big sports night tonight,, Hope today finds you well

241 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:18:40pm

re: #237 Noam Sayin'

When do these dang ponies run, anyway?

/about an hour yet

242 avanti  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:19:06pm

re: #223 Killian Bundy

He should agree only if Olberdouche does it too.

/make it a contest to see who can last longer, for the troops!

Not a bad idea, but that was not the point. Hannity was the one that made light of waterboarding and suggested he could take it.
If Olbermann shit his pants and screamed bloody murder he's make his point on how bad it is. Hannity should step up to the plate and cash the check he wrote with his mouth with his ass on the table.
If it's no big deal, he can make his point and support the troops. BTW, I don't care for ether one of them, so making either one look silly is good for me.

243 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:19:12pm

re: #238 danrudy

ahh...
are you saying that google selects the ads that run on a website based upon the keywords and not direct advertising with LGf/
THat makes more sense.
Thanks.

I wonder if they will be happy with their placement from Google..LOL

(BTW...I supplied you with a few more links on other thread regarding your "bomb" question

And I answered you on that thread. See my answer.

244 Noam Sayin'  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:19:55pm

re: #241 Killian Bundy

Thanks.

245 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:20:02pm

re: #227 Iron Fist

Yeah. I don't think it would have impacted spending much, but it would have been entertaining watching the congress finding new and creative ways of getting around it. Pork would still be king, though. It's going to be that way until the voters say "keep your "free" money. Let me keep what I make" and start voting the porkers out of office. I don't think that will happen until something really catestrophic happens on the economic front.

Then, of course, it will be too late.

I want the BBA simply to put an obstacle in the way of this runaway train of spending Congress seems intent on engineering. They might very well blow past the obstacle, but I am hoping some half-way aware Congress Critter has the political gumption to bother asking the question of "what did we just run over and shouldn't we go check?"

246 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:20:10pm

re: #243 Walter L. Newton

WHen I checked last u wanted specific attacks (bombings) rather then defacements. SO, I posted additional links...Have you replied since then?

247 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:20:53pm

re: #244 Noam Sayin'

Thanks.

/sloppy track, much fun to be had by all

248 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:21:09pm

re: #240 HoosierHoops

Hey Walter..Big sports night tonight,, Hope today finds you well

Yes, it's raining here. Will be snowing up hill later (but I don't have to go into the mountains tonight), we have a good house tonight at the show (that's always good), temps here in the 40's, so, we still don't have a full spring going yet, everything is fine.

249 SlartyBartfast  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:21:13pm

re: #233 danrudy

I visit dKos and HuffPo on the, "Know thy enemy" theory...might click on an ad there, if they offered anything desirable.

"Hey, Mark Levin has a new book!" *click*

(I don't see that happening, though.)

250 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:22:09pm

re: #246 danrudy

WHen I checked last u wanted specific attacks (bombings) rather then defacements. SO, I posted additional links...Have you replied since then?

No, I went down to the theatre to do my set up (I work at a live theatre) and got done early, so I came back home for a while (I live near by), I will go look.

251 avanti  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:22:49pm

re: #230 Cattt

From what I understand, most people can't make it past a few seconds. Also, iirc, the max allowed by the interrogators was 40 seconds, or until the subject had physical issues with breathing or started choking.

Thanks, I read even a small percentage of the Seals in training quit the program over it, so it probably varies quite a bit. i.e. if you had a near drowning experience as a kid, you'd never make it.

252 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:23:08pm

re: #249 SlartyBartfast

seriously...some of those ladies on Muslima are really smoking hot!

Will be back later.

253 Curt  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:24:23pm

re: #222 FurryOldGuyJeans

If you have read the posts Charles has been putting up a lot of "full of facts" is what is there. The tool to get out a political view is a byproduct and talking point is that of some people on the fringe.

Understood. Let's walk the dog back: What began this entire "debate?" Lots of RWCs running in the streets, or a Government report?

Before the report...the issue was why was the FBI using CAIR to train their people...things like that.

I still don't agree with law breaking, but I find it difficult to defend a Government who stands and tells the people the CEOs are raping them, and then...gee, look what happens? Bus tour to homes, CEOs resigning (or...being fired by the President), employees having to hire security firms due to death threats. Was it the person in the street who began that fire? Or the President of the United States?

That's my issue: The use of the Government to vilify, and it was when lines such as those who support State's Rights, and are anti-abortion, who are returning war vets made it into the general writing. First off, if it's a big problem, FOUO is way too low a classification. I've done my share of report writing and it was foolish, and unprofessional for that document to be written and approved as it was. A thinking, mature, professional would have caught it in the first place, but then it seems few read the reports sent out these days in the DC area, which means a less mature, unprofessional staffer can get their view out. And, I also noted it was unsigned. Hard to hold professional civil servants accountable if they won't put their name to their work. I know this: In the service, reports got signed, then distributed. On top of that, the authority to sign was controlled. I just didn't put stuff out because I felt like it.

They could have mentioned the militant groups who do and have displayed the real makings of illegal acts, to include a pattern of real action, but I don't think it's those who pray outside of Planned Parenthood offices that need an FBI tail 24/7. That, IMHO, is why this is a firestorm on the Right.

254 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:24:30pm
255 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:25:04pm

re: #246 danrudy

WHen I checked last u wanted specific attacks (bombings) rather then defacements. SO, I posted additional links...Have you replied since then?

If we are going to look at the over all attacks on Jewish structures, graves etc. as a whole, then, yes it commonplace.

256 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:29:08pm

re: #254 Iron Fist

That really bypasses the issue, as amusing as it might be. I don't think that anyone has said that waterboarding isn't unpleasent, or that it is fun. The arguement centers on whether it is torture (I'm not convinced), and whether, if it is that really matters (I would argue that it doesn't).

Personally, I don't care much what they do to Khalid Sheik Mohammed as long as they don't set him free.

It's not torture. Torture is an electric drill, something that causes permanent physical or psychological harm.

/as far as I know, no one's ever been injured by waterboarding

257 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:31:59pm

re: #255 Walter L. Newton

well...the cemetery attack also included an attack on a synagogue in the building nxt door (the cememery got the headline).
I also posted a link that was a Neo-nazi synangogue attack. However, it referenced members of a muslim group about to go on trial for a similar attack so I posted that as well.

I still maintain that having as many attacks on synagogues as I listed (without a real thorough search) qualifies as commonplace. However, I would admit that they are less commonplace then Jewish structures as a whole (EL al counter in Los Angeles, Jewish Federation in california etc)

However, the original point was that we tend to yawn when we hear these as they are expected. I was looking at a post here on LGF where 46 people were killed in bombings by "non-buddhists" as Charles sarcastically referred to them initially (a swipe at the MSM).
THe attack on a mosque by non-muslims is distinctly uncommon (in contrast).

258 avanti  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:33:34pm

re: #254 Iron Fist

That really bypasses the issue, as amusing as it might be. I don't think that anyone has said that waterboarding isn't unpleasent, or that it is fun. The arguement centers on whether it is torture (I'm not convinced), and whether, if it is that really matters (I would argue that it doesn't).

Personally, I don't care much what they do to Khalid Sheik Mohammed as long as they don't set him free.

For me, it's like the cops having to be tasered themselves in training. I would take Hannity flippant attitude about waterboarding better if he'd tried it. Now that he's offered, I'd like to see him give it a shot. BTW, I agree it's not torture like pulling out your fingernails for example but I can't tell you if it's torture or not.
I have a opinion on the ticking bomb sort of terrorist issue. I think if we ever got in that situation, and knew a terrorist had the info to prevent it, all the written rules in the world would go out the window.

259 Gus  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:36:14pm

re: #219 Sunlight

Michael Oren at youtube

This man is fascinating. He's a historian as well as a novelist and earned his PhD from Princeton. He has a deep understanding of both American history and the Middle East.

I highly suggest watching his video at his website.

Also watch Conversations with History: Michael B. Oren

Thanks for the tip.

260 SummerSong  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:45:41pm

re: #146 sattv4u2

I heard (read) here that Newsmax is considered an unreliable source of info and that their links are not welcome here? I stopped reading there for that reason.

Sorry of this upsets anyone, but I would read and judge on my own weather a source is credible or not, instead of taking someones word for it!

Just one mans humble opinion

I had to run out for a few. Yes. I agree, but I had read the site and didn't think much about it. When I read the critique here, I realized, yeah, it does suck!

261 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:50:55pm

re: #207 Killian Bundy

Study: Dog Food Tastes Just Like Pâté

/yummy!

I've never eaten pate. I had learned what's in it (blended pork fat and goose liver) before I had the opportunity to have it offered to me.

262 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 3:20:32pm
263 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, May 2, 2009 3:20:46pm

Only a fool would think that "right-wing" is synonymous with conservative.

Not everyone on the "right-wing" is conservative. Not everyone on the "left-wing" is liberal.

264 Liberal Classic  Sat, May 2, 2009 6:57:30pm

FWIW, I think a lot of people are buying guns and ammo because they think the Democrats are going to pass new regulations and/or taxes on them.

265 Banner  Sat, May 2, 2009 7:44:07pm

I think the problem that most had with the report (and which I had) was that it seemed to lump the actual extremists, the ones who are crazy and might do something criminal & deadly, with all the rest of us who simply want Obama's socialist policies to fail to be implemented, and who believe in the old conservative principles.

A lot of us remember the extremes the Clinton Administration went to, when it came to 'right wing disadents'. I was shocked and surprised to find that I was under investigation, that I had BATF agents actually following me around and taking my picture! Simply for taking part in protests that were non violent, legal, and done solely to exercise our rights.

Did it have a chilling effect on me? Heck yes! I stopped doing all of the stuff I had been doing and didn't go to anymore protests (though our protests were simply picketing speakers, we never caused a rukus). Now I have to wonder if I have a file sitting around in Washington someplace that some left wing functionary will pick up with a left wing President in office, and suddenly I'll find myself subject to this crap again. The tone of that report makes me wonder if my brief stint at third rate political activism is going to cost me once again.

Once bitten, twice shy, as they say.

As for the gun thing noted above, well Clinton banned a lot of guns, so it's only fair to assume Obama will do so as well, so get them while you can.


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 Frank says:

I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...