Michael B. Oren, author of the terrific book Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East, will be the new Israeli ambassador to the United States—and that’s excellent news.
For insight into Oren’s thinking, I highly recommend the book linked above, and also the series of articles he wrote for the journal Azure.
1 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 9:53:05am |
I wonder if the gazans who worked to get 0bama elected are regretting that decision now.
| 3 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 9:57:34am |
Whoa - Wiki's already on it:
Michael B. Oren (born in 1955) is an American-Israeli scholar, historian, author, and IDF military officer best known for his highly acclaimed books on Middle Eastern history. He was recently appointed Visiting Professor at the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University for the 2008-2009 academic year. The native born American has published books, articles and essays on the subject of Middle Eastern history, and is the author of the best-selling Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East, which among other accolades, won the Los Angeles Times History Book of the Year Award. He is a Senior Fellow at the Shalem Center in Jerusalem and a contributing editor to the The New Republic and the Shalem Center's quarterly journal, Azure. He currently resides in Jerusalem.On May 2, 2009, Dr. Oren was appointed to the post of Israeli ambassador to the United States, and will replace the current ambassador Sallai Meridor within a matter of weeks.[1]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 4 |
davesax Sun, May 3, 2009 9:58:26am |
I agree, Charles. This is excellent news.
Oren is articulate, bright, hawkish, and realistic.
It's the first sound decision to come out of Israeli politics in a long, long time.
| 5 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 9:59:48am |
Here's the best 2 lines in his BIO, IMHO
Michael B. Oren (born in 1955) is an American-Israeli scholar, historian, author, and IDF military officer grew up in New Jersey in a Conservative Jewish household. His family had a strong affinity for Israel and Oren himself was an activist in Zionist youth movements
| 7 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:01:09am |
re: #6 realwest
PIMF - kindly disregard my post. Read the lede too quickly.
| 9 |
brookly red Sun, May 3, 2009 10:01:45am |
If he has any input concerning policy making then this is very good. If he was picked to be a friendly face to deliver bad news, then not so good.
| 11 |
avanti Sun, May 3, 2009 10:02:23am |
Interesting comment from the book review that sound promising:
"Further, Six Days of War is an attack on "post-Zionism": the school of politics and history that casts Israel as the author of policies that intentionally promote the destruction of Palestine as a separate entity and of Palestinians as a people, not least through the occupation that began with the 1967 War."
| 12 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:02:25am |
re: #9 brookly red
If he has any input concerning policy making then this is very good. If he was picked to be a friendly face to deliver bad news, then not so good.
see my #8. I think you made the same mistake that Real made
| 13 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:02:34am |
re: #5 sattv4u2
Well I do agree with what you highlighted, but am also intrigued by American-Israeli
| 14 |
davesax Sun, May 3, 2009 10:02:47am |
Oren, take his orders from Obama?
His sister in law was murdered by suicide bombers.
And he wrote an article that was very critical of Obama, and that he said in a recent interview, "I stand by."
Oren's not taking orders from anyone. I'm sure that's why Bibi wants him.
| 16 |
Bubblehead II Sun, May 3, 2009 10:03:00am |
Morning all. From his article entitled, The Second War of Independence.
*snip*
The action was the first phase in a plan secretly forged by representatives of France, Britain, and Israel, triggered by Egypt’s nationalization of the canal three months before.
Hmmmmm. Could it then be postulated that France and Britain have some responsibility for the current mess in Israel and are refusing to acknowledge it?
*snip*
The Europeans anticipated that Cairo would reject that ultimatum, thus allowing them to occupy the strategic waterway. Israel dutifully executed its part of the scheme, smashing the Egyptian army in four days and conquering all of the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza Strip. The Anglo-French armada, however, was late in arriving, and soon withdrew under intense international pressure.
And after 50 years they are still late and caving in to International pressure.
| 17 |
brookly red Sun, May 3, 2009 10:03:18am |
| 18 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:03:30am |
re: #13 realwest
Well I do agree with what you highlighted, but am also intrigued by American-Israeli
Thats because he was born ,raised nand educated in the US
| 19 |
rain of lead Sun, May 3, 2009 10:03:39am |
re: #10 MandyManners
If he gives her bad news ,she'll throw a lamp at him?
| 22 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, May 3, 2009 10:03:57am |
re: #8 sattv4u2
wha!?!?!? He's the ISRAELI ambassador TO the US ,,, NOT the US ambassador to Israel!
That's what I thought. Is everyone reading this wrong. He is working for ISRAEL, as an ambassador of the ISRAEL government TO the United States.
| 23 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:04:31am |
re: #22 Walter L. Newton
That's what I thought. Is everyone reading this wrong. He is working for ISRAEL, as an ambassador of the ISRAEL government TO the United States.
correct
| 24 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, May 3, 2009 10:05:26am |
| 25 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:05:26am |
re: #22 Walter L. Newton
Walter, how the hell did you get to #8 without reading my #'s 6 and 7 ?
| 26 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 10:05:44am |
Hmm- Carl in Jerusalem thinks this is a bad move because Oren supports withdraw from other areas.
| 27 |
davesax Sun, May 3, 2009 10:05:55am |
The only downside to this is that Oren has been working on a book about the history of the 47-48 war that would function as a corrective to the leftist narrative that permeates discussion about Israel's founding.
I guess that will have to wait, but this is just as important.
| 28 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:06:07am |
re: #13 realwest
Well I do agree with what you highlighted, but am also intrigued by American-Israeli
. He continued his studies at Columbia, receiving a Masters in International Affairs in 1978.[4]
The following year (1979), Oren immigrated to Israel.[5]
| 29 |
rain of lead Sun, May 3, 2009 10:06:25am |
re: #22 Walter L. Newton
That's what I thought. Is everyone reading this wrong. He is working for ISRAEL, as an ambassador of the ISRAEL government TO the United States.
ok got the sunday morning brain slowdown.
| 30 |
yma o hyd Sun, May 3, 2009 10:07:09am |
Just read one of his articles in that journal Charles linked - wow! What an outstanding mind - and what excellent choice for ambassador in this most important post, for Israel, and at this most important time for her.
| 31 |
dwells38 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:07:23am |
I think it's great they have someone who obviously knows all the hows and whys they are where they're at but will it make a difference? The actual truth is now being treated like a rewritten history by large and important parts of the world. I've argued on NGs with left sympathizers presumably here in USA before that the local Arabs brought a lot of this on themselves, that they wanted to destroy Isreal outright first militarily. And when that wasn't possible settled on this dispicable terror and propaganda war that obviously hurts both sides so deeply. But they always see it exactly the opposite. Isreal is the aggressor and is fascist and Palestine ter, Syria, Lebanon just want to be left alone to give peace and prosperity to their people unmolested by sadistic Jews. OK I'm admittedly rather pessimistic so maybe some other commenters will give some hope.
| 32 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:07:32am |
re: #28 sattv4u2
Um, yup - I posted the Wiki thread above. I think that although I fucked up in my#6, this is still a great idea for Israeli-American relations.
| 33 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 10:07:48am |
re: #6 realwest
Actually, realwest- we're reading this wrong- this is Israel's ambassador. He takes his orders from Netenyahu.
| 34 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 10:08:02am |
Some interesting insider perspective from Carl in Jerusalem's blog:
"Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's leading candidate for ambassador to the United States, Historian Michael Oren, who was a college classmate of mine at Columbia, told an audience at Georgetown earlier this month that the only way to 'save' Israel as a democratic Jewish state is to 'unilaterally withdraw' from most of Judea and Samaria.
Oren, a Middle East expert and senior researcher at Jerusalem's Shalem Center, gave a 90-minute lecture entitled "The Gaza Crisis from an Historical and Personal Perspective on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."
Answering questions from attendees, Oren voiced his opinions about possible solutions to the conflict and the policy Israel should take. He emphasized that he does not represent the majority of Israelis.
"I may be the last of the standing unilateralists," he said. "The only thing that can save Israel as a Jewish state is by unilaterally withdrawing our settlements from the West Bank," and waiting for a new Palestinian leadership."
| 35 |
Sunlight Sun, May 3, 2009 10:09:34am |
More links from yesterday:
e: #194 Sunlight
OT: This is going to be interesting:
Michael Oren to be appointed Israel's ambassador to US
Michael Totten knows this guy and that could be some good stories from Totten!
-Also Michael Oren's 1776 to present history book (Power, Faith, and Fantasy) is fantastic.
| 36 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:10:07am |
re: #33 Sharmuta
Sigh. Please read one comment further - my #7.
| 37 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:10:27am |
re: #34 pink freud
I agree with Oren on the withdrawel statement. IMHO those settlements should not have been started placing ALL the onus on the Palastinians si they couldn't gripe about them. The settlements have been a PR nightmare for the Israelis
| 38 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, May 3, 2009 10:11:54am |
re: #24 Walter L. Newton
HA ! I'm a community organizer. I organized..........communities and such.
Author of what ? Expert at what ?
Fear my MoJo !
I do believe you're spot on.
| 39 |
MandyManners Sun, May 3, 2009 10:12:03am |
| 40 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 10:12:13am |
re: #24 Walter L. Newton
Obama's administration will ignore him.
You're probably right. Obama is a guy who does not do well with dissenting points of views. The Israelis are not going to want to risk their saftey, just to carry out BHO's wishes.
| 41 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:12:27am |
CHARLES - would you be so kind as to delete my comment #6? I've unitentionally misled some folks by reading too quickly and posting without thinking.
Thank you very much.
| 42 |
MandyManners Sun, May 3, 2009 10:13:09am |
re: #22 Walter L. Newton
That's what I thought. Is everyone reading this wrong. He is working for ISRAEL, as an ambassador of the ISRAEL government TO the United States.
No, some of us got it right from the beginning.
| 43 |
Sunlight Sun, May 3, 2009 10:13:58am |
One possible benefit (among many) would be that maybe Oren could help reel in the left liberal defeatist pull of the "Conservative" movement (in which I think he grew up in NJ) and the Reform (URJ) in the U.S., who have both fallen off the edge of good sense since 2000.
| 44 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:14:23am |
| 45 |
debutaunt Sun, May 3, 2009 10:14:58am |
re: #25 realwest
Walter, how the hell did you get to #8 without reading my #'s 6 and 7 ?
Of all sad words of tongue and pen,
The saddest are of a hasty commenter.
| 46 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, May 3, 2009 10:15:18am |
re: #42 MandyManners
No, some of us got it right from the beginning.
Mandy - Yes, "everyone" was a bit of hyperbole on my part - sorry.
| 47 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 10:16:07am |
re: #45 debutaunt
Of all sad words of tongue and pen,
The saddest are of a hasty commenter.
I think it means I need another cup of coffee.
| 49 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, May 3, 2009 10:16:46am |
re: #45 debutaunt
Of all sad words of tongue and pen,
The saddest are of a hasty commenter.
I'm a guy, we always comment fast.
| 50 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 10:16:47am |
re: #25 realwest
Walter, how the hell did you get to #8 without reading my #'s 6 and 7 ?
Why was 6 afraid of 7?
| 52 |
capitalist piglet Sun, May 3, 2009 10:17:31am |
re: #36 realwest
Sigh. Please read one comment further - my #7.
I think I'm going to have to upding you for every premature correction you get, just to help make up for your frustration. : )
(I actually read it right before looking at the comments, but I had to double-back and make sure.)
| 54 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 10:17:40am |
| 55 |
Sunlight Sun, May 3, 2009 10:17:41am |
re: #41 realwest
CHARLES - would you be so kind as to delete my comment #6? I've unitentionally misled some folks by reading too quickly and posting without thinking.
Thank you very much.
Realwest - I didn't think your number 6 was misleading because in fact the U.S. does have a track record of wanting to order Israel around.
| 56 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:18:20am |
| 59 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:20:00am |
re: #52 capitalist piglet
Thanks.
But I still wish Charles would delete it!
| 60 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 10:20:36am |
| 62 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, May 3, 2009 10:20:55am |
| 63 |
capitalist piglet Sun, May 3, 2009 10:20:58am |
| 67 |
countrygurl Sun, May 3, 2009 10:21:47am |
[Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]
Nationalized Health Care story - wife goes into labor in UK, hubby calls for midwife, midwife busy, so he goes to Youtube to watch a couple of videos on birthin' babies, delivers said baby, calls ambulance, whole family including newborn go to hospital, then they are all home by 6:30am. All this in eight hours. Is this what we have to look forward to?
| 68 |
debutaunt Sun, May 3, 2009 10:22:27am |
| 69 |
rain of lead Sun, May 3, 2009 10:22:43am |
how can you tell if an elephant has been in your refridgarator
| 70 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:22:58am |
| 71 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:23:21am |
re: #69 rain of lead
how can you tell if an elephant has been in your refridgarator
footprints in the jello
| 72 |
debutaunt Sun, May 3, 2009 10:23:25am |
| 73 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:23:29am |
re: #60 VegasRick
Where does a 400 pound gorilla sleep?
anywhere the 500 pound gorilla will let him.
| 74 |
rain of lead Sun, May 3, 2009 10:23:44am |
| 75 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Sun, May 3, 2009 10:24:17am |
re: #34 pink freud
Some interesting insider perspective from Carl in Jerusalem's blog:
"Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's leading candidate for ambassador to the United States, Historian Michael Oren, who was a college classmate of mine at Columbia, told an audience at Georgetown earlier this month that the only way to 'save' Israel as a democratic Jewish state is to 'unilaterally withdraw' from most of Judea and Samaria.
Oren, a Middle East expert and senior researcher at Jerusalem's Shalem Center, gave a 90-minute lecture entitled "The Gaza Crisis from an Historical and Personal Perspective on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."
Answering questions from attendees, Oren voiced his opinions about possible solutions to the conflict and the policy Israel should take. He emphasized that he does not represent the majority of Israelis.
"I may be the last of the standing unilateralists," he said. "The only thing that can save Israel as a Jewish state is by unilaterally withdrawing our settlements from the West Bank," and waiting for a new Palestinian leadership."
Yeah, unilateral withdrawal from Gaza was such a great idea and turned out so well for everybody.
/especially Hamas
| 76 |
debutaunt Sun, May 3, 2009 10:24:50am |
| 77 |
countrygurl Sun, May 3, 2009 10:25:01am |
this thread sure went downhill fast... =8-D
| 78 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 10:25:30am |
re: #74 rain of lead
or the butter
What did Tarzan say when he saw a bunch of elephants floating down the river?
| 79 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, May 3, 2009 10:25:52am |
re: #69 rain of lead
how can you tell if an elephant has been in your refridgarator
tusk,tusk, enough of this silliness.
| 80 |
capitalist piglet Sun, May 3, 2009 10:25:56am |
Knock, knock...who's there?
Interrupting cow.
Interrrupting co...
MOO!
| 82 |
countrygurl Sun, May 3, 2009 10:26:55am |
......and after I made all those nice remarks on panda about our stimulating intellectual discussions........
| 83 |
gatorbait Sun, May 3, 2009 10:27:00am |
re: #53 Iron Fist
It is unlikely to hurt American-Israeli relations, but I'm not necessarily convinced that it is going to make much of a difference in how the Obama Administration deals with Israel. It is pretty clear where the Administration's sympathies lie. As I've said before, I don't expect Obama to completely sell the Israelis down the river, but he might most surely rent them down the river.
No one really knows what this guy is going to do. He doesn't know what he is going to do. He seems to play to every audience. This is very strange. And very dangerous. Now is the time to defend our right to arm bears!
| 84 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 10:27:08am |
re: #67 countrygurl
[Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]
Nationalized Health Care story - wife goes into labor in UK, hubby calls for midwife, midwife busy, so he goes to Youtube to watch a couple of videos on birthin' babies, delivers said baby, calls ambulance, whole family including newborn go to hospital, then they are all home by 6:30am. All this in eight hours. Is this what we have to look forward to?
If current National Healthcare Sysems are the model there will be rationing. As an example, an elective hip repacement can be scheduled a year out, even if the situation is bone on bone. There will be lots of triaging with those considered to not likely to attain a good outcome being denied care.
| 85 |
realwest Sun, May 3, 2009 10:27:21am |
re: #75 Alouette Also from Carl's blog: "He also says that he agreed with the 'disengagement' from Gaza, but that Israel's mistake was not responding immediately and more effectively to 'Palestinian' rocket fire [emphasis realwest].
Reads to me as if Bibi has indeed picked the right man for the job.
| 86 |
yma o hyd Sun, May 3, 2009 10:28:15am |
re: #34 pink freud
Some interesting insider perspective from Carl in Jerusalem's blog:
"Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's leading candidate for ambassador to the United States, Historian Michael Oren, who was a college classmate of mine at Columbia, told an audience at Georgetown earlier this month that the only way to 'save' Israel as a democratic Jewish state is to 'unilaterally withdraw' from most of Judea and Samaria.
Oren, a Middle East expert and senior researcher at Jerusalem's Shalem Center, gave a 90-minute lecture entitled "The Gaza Crisis from an Historical and Personal Perspective on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."
Answering questions from attendees, Oren voiced his opinions about possible solutions to the conflict and the policy Israel should take. He emphasized that he does not represent the majority of Israelis.
"I may be the last of the standing unilateralists," he said. "The only thing that can save Israel as a Jewish state is by unilaterally withdrawing our settlements from the West Bank," and waiting for a new Palestinian leadership."
Very interesting - made me gulp!
However, perhaps this is a small silver lining: '... and waiting for a new Palestinian leadership'.
He seems to imply that withdrawal and new Palestinian leadership are connected, so hopefully this is not quite the same as an unconditional unilateral withdrawal ... hopefully!
| 87 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 10:28:38am |
Appeasement will not work. One needs to be dealing with civilized people's in order to achieve success.
| 88 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 10:28:43am |
Well- there seem to be differing opinions on this gentleman, but I'm more concerned as an American as to our ambassadors and administration treat Israel. I think the Israelis are better prepared to handle things on their end. It's my country's end I worry about.
[Also- I think it's not as important if Oren supports withdraw- he has to serve his boss' agenda.]
| 89 |
countrygurl Sun, May 3, 2009 10:28:50am |
re: #84 opnion
If current National Healthcare Sysems are the model there will be rationing.
Yeah, I know. This is what the young people want. As an old person, I am opposed!
| 90 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, May 3, 2009 10:29:12am |
OT -
Ok, Charles may want to look into this more closely, but Pam has a embedded video link to view the entire movie "DEFIANCE."
This video is coming from a media sharing website called wejew.com.
Looking over the wejew.com site, it appears that they are allowing people to upload copy written material.
I can't see anything at wejew.com that indicates they are paying for any of the content on the website.
| 91 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 10:29:26am |
re: #83 gatorbait
No one really knows what this guy is going to do. He doesn't know what he is going to do. He seems to play to every audience. This is very strange. And very dangerous. Now is the time to defend our right to arm bears!
Sounds like 0bama.
| 92 |
anchors_aweigh Sun, May 3, 2009 10:30:11am |
As an ambassador's primary purpose is to represent his county's interests in the host country, it is not surprising that Netanyahu chose a forceful advocate of the Jewish state.
Sadly, our chief diplomat (POTUS), is not a forceful advocate of his country.
| 93 |
debutaunt Sun, May 3, 2009 10:30:22am |
re: #90 Walter L. Newton
OT -
Ok, Charles may want to look into this more closely, but Pam has a embedded video link to view the entire movie "DEFIANCE."
This video is coming from a media sharing website called wejew.com.
Looking over the wejew.com site, it appears that they are allowing people to upload copy written material.
I can't see anything at wejew.com that indicates they are paying for any of the content on the website.
It seems odd.
| 94 |
countrygurl Sun, May 3, 2009 10:33:09am |
re: #92 anchors_aweigh
Sadly, our chief diplomat apologist (POTUS), is not a forceful advocate of his country.
FIFY
| 95 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 10:34:32am |
re: #89 countrygurl
Yeah, I know. This is what the young people want. As an old person, I am opposed!
Young people will one day be senior citizens & will have to deal with the health delivery system. I can't think of any National System that ever went back to private.
| 97 |
debutaunt Sun, May 3, 2009 10:43:50am |
re: #81 rain of lead
?
He said, "What did Tarzan say when he saw a bunch of elephants floating down the river?"
| 98 |
bungie Sun, May 3, 2009 10:43:58am |
re: #35 Sunlight
More links from yesterday:
e: #194 Sunlight
OT: This is going to be interesting:
Michael Oren to be appointed Israel's ambassador to US
Michael Totten knows this guy and that could be some good stories from Totten!
-Also Michael Oren's 1776 to present history book (Power, Faith, and Fantasy) is fantastic.
On your YouTube link, he said his father landed at Normandy.
| 99 |
Spiritualized Sun, May 3, 2009 11:16:06am |
"The only thing that can save Israel as a Jewish state is by unilaterally withdrawing our settlements from the West Bank," and waiting for a new Palestinian leadership."
Genius, how long are we talking here? A year? Ten? A thousand? I see what he's going for here, he's disengaged his brain and imagined what the world would be like if the "Palestinians" converted to, say, Christianity or Buddhism on mass, overnight.
That is literally the only scenario in which that plan could work.
The danger in Palestinian sovereignty
The alternative to Israeli sovereignty is handing over Judea and Samaria to Palestinian or other Arab sovereignty. This would be a strategic catastrophe of the first magnitude. After the Northern region of Israel was paralyzed following the presence of Hezbollah on our Northern border, and after the Western Negev is absorbing a rain of Kassam rockets, it is not difficult to imagine what the Central region – the Sharon, the Dan Bloc, and Jerusalem – will look like when dominated by enemy forces. In such a situation, Israel would become a hostage living in the shadow of a constant threat.
| 100 |
Kosh's Shadow Sun, May 3, 2009 11:50:34am |
re: #96 buzzsawmonkey
Oren seems to be an intelligent man willing to act as a strong advocate, which is all to the good--particularly as it is likely that he will be up against many people in Obama's administration who are hostile to Israel.
However, his suggestion that Israel unilaterally abandon the bulk of the settlements in Judea and Samaria gives one pause, not only because such withdrawal had such disastrous results in Gaza, and not only because it continues Israel's unfortunate precedent of relinquishing the gains from the Six-Day War while receiving nothing of substance in return.
The worst part of such a position is that it accepts the notion that "the settlements" are the problem. Not only is this historically inaccurate--the Fedayeen War and the Six-Day War occurred when there were no settlements in the West Bank or Gaza--but because accepting "settlements" as the problem fundamentally strikes at Israel's very existence. To the Arabs, Tel Aviv, and indeed any Jewish presence--is a "settlement", so accepting that "settlements" are the problem accepts the Arab attitude that Jewish presence in the Land is the problem.
Multiple updings.
There was once Palestinian leadership that could have co-existed with Israel, but they were sidelined when Arafat was allowed to move in.
| 101 |
Arrr Sun, May 3, 2009 12:07:01pm |
re: #96 buzzsawmonkey
Withdrawing the settlements is ultimately a tactical move to save Israel as a democratic Jewish state. The morality or supposed "root cause" of the settlements has nothing to do with it.
I don't believe that the settlements are the root cause of Islamist terrorism, but I am of the opinion that it is in Israel's interests for them to be dismantled, regardless of how the Palestinians respond.
| 103 |
dhg4 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:16:47pm |
re: #98 bungie
On your YouTube link, he said his father landed at Normandy.
Charles, even at Totten's site, his interview with Oren links to PJM. The URL of the PJM interview has clearly changed. Is the interview still extant and can it be reposted?
| 104 |
Cheese Eating Victory Monkey Sun, May 3, 2009 1:36:57pm |
He wrote another best seller:
Power, Faith, and Fantasy: America in the Middle East: 1776 to the Present
| 105 |
Nekama Sun, May 3, 2009 2:18:39pm |
That's great news. Mike Oren is very smart and persuasive guy. I'm delighted with this choice.
| 106 |
FrumiousFalafel Sun, May 3, 2009 2:53:02pm |
I'm a BIG fan of Oren ever since I read his book on the 1967 (6-day) war. I thought he was eminently fair in that book. I for one could detect no bias. He praised the Jordanian soldiers when they deserved it and made other points that a partisan wouldn't have necessarily written.
I'm glad you agree Charles!
Plus, don't get too hard on Melanie, Charles -- she's been a loyal fighter for the entire decade now. Further she is living in what practically amounts to a war zone now. I mean each year she looks out onto the street and it gets uglier and uglier for her. Better to let her comments pass in the night for all her good work.
--FF
| 107 |
tsionguy Sun, May 3, 2009 8:32:25pm |
re: #102 buzzsawmonkey
I completely agree. Jordan's 1994 Peace Treaty relinquished all land west of the Jordan River. Until Israel annexes the West Bank territories, or the PA claims it's own sovereignty over the land they currently control (a de-facto state right now) the territories are technically a "no man's land" 60% of which is administered by Israel, and 40% administered by the PA. By not annexing their 60%, some say Israel has shown tremendous self restraint. After 42 years, I think it is foolish of Israel not to formally claim the Jewish towns of Judea and Samaria as a part of Israel proper. No towns should be dismantled; everyone should stay right where they are. Territorial contiguity is totally irrelevant to statehood.
| 108 |
Ben-Yehudah Mon, May 4, 2009 3:25:16am |
B"H
"Hawkish?" How is being for a two-state solution hawkish?
isn't he a former Mossad agent, too? Once a Mossad agent, always a Mossad agent.
I am not optimistic.
| 109 |
FrumiousFalafel Mon, May 4, 2009 10:02:46am |
re: #108 Ben-Yehudah
Oren was Mossad? I've never heard that. Where did you hear that -- he's too much of an intellectual to be Mossad I think.
--FF
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Jayce Wed, May 6, 2009 10:54:51am |
All I know is the Michael Oren knowingly chose to participate in dragging Jews out of their homes and towns in Gush Katif to make it fit for Hamas. He wrote he felt badly about it, but he did it. Many IDF officers, battalions and individual soldiers refused and spent 28 days in military prison, were demoted or ousted. Oren didn't stand up for his beliefs or his people. Political 'correctness' was more important to him that justice. He'll get along fine with the politicians of both Israel and the US.
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
