Jon Stewart, War Criminals, and the True Story of the Atomic Bombs
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Bill Whittle takes Jon Stewart to school: Jon Stewart, War Criminals & The True Story of the Atomic Bombs.
329 comments
2 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, May 3, 2009 10:46:42am |
Watched it this AM. Whittle was on !
| 3 |
Shug Sun, May 3, 2009 10:47:54am |
Jon Stewart's success is not the problem. It's a sympton of the dumbing down of the American electorate.
Glad to see somebody put this fool in his place
| 4 |
The Other Les Sun, May 3, 2009 10:51:39am |
| 5 |
Wyatt Earp Sun, May 3, 2009 10:53:12am |
re: #3 Shug
Jon Stewart's success is not the problem. It's a sympton of the dumbing down of the American electorate.
Glad to see somebody put this fool in his place
I wished Jim Cramer has beyotch-slapped him when he was on, but he cowered in the presence of everyone's least-favorite fake newsman.
| 6 |
freedombilly Sun, May 3, 2009 10:53:35am |
If Jon Stewart was half as funny as he thinks he is I would never miss a single show. He is in love with the sound of his own voice.
| 7 |
Noam Sayin' Sun, May 3, 2009 10:54:10am |
I watched this yesterday. Whittle certainly has command of his humor. Takes a nice shot at Stewart but doesn't go overboard.
| 8 |
LSD Sun, May 3, 2009 10:55:09am |
Jon Stewart talking with Cliff May looked meek and out matched, but still felt the need to squeak out that he thought Truman was a "war criminal", only because he was on camera and had a rep to uphold. He knows he was wrong.
He is the lowest of wussies...
| 10 |
Idle Drifter Sun, May 3, 2009 10:56:54am |
re: #3 Shug
Jon Stewart's success is not the problem. It's a symptom of the dumbing down of the American electorate.
Glad to see somebody put this fool in his place
Indeed. It's sad that some Americans actually look to John Steward for the news. John has a horrible habit of switching between court jester and high inquisitor depending on the guests and/or subject he has on his show at the time.
| 11 |
jaunte Sun, May 3, 2009 10:57:06am |
Very few people know about the advance warnings that were given to the Japanese; good on Bill Whittle for pointing it out.
| 12 |
chicagodudewhotrades Sun, May 3, 2009 10:57:15am |
I'm not a Daily show watcher. About the only time Stewart has made me laugh is when he played a corrupt children's TV show exec in the movie 'Death to Smootchy'
| 13 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 10:58:02am |
re: #6 freedombilly
Problem is, all of these "comedians" should have stayed in that realm. As soo ad the Stewarts, O'Donnels, Garraffaloe's et al became spokespeople for politics they lost their true skill set.
True "political/ satirists" are few and far between. Since Will Rogers I can't name 3!
| 14 |
freedombilly Sun, May 3, 2009 10:59:42am |
re: #13 sattv4u2
Problem is, all of these "comedians" should have stayed in that realm. As soo ad the Stewarts, O'Donnels, Garraffaloe's et al became spokespeople for politics they lost their true skill set.
True "political/ satirists" are few and far between. Since Will Rogers I can't name 3!
And let's not leave out Al f@%$ing Franken!
| 15 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:00:21am |
re: #14 freedombilly
And let's not leave out Al f@%$ing Franken!
lets not,, but just THINKING of him gives my brain an anuerism
| 16 |
Idle Drifter Sun, May 3, 2009 11:00:53am |
| 17 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, May 3, 2009 11:01:17am |
You know The Daily Show is fake, right ?
Seems real to me.
It's on COMEDYEFFIN'CENTRAL !
Yeah, there used to be girls jumping on trampolines. Whatever happened to them?
ARRRRGGGGG.
| 18 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:02:17am |
re: #16 Idle Drifter
Was he ever funny?
Not even on SNL,,,
Thats said, he was a writer on SNL, so I don't know how much of his writings were funny (preformed by someone else) But as an actor/ stand-up ,, NADA
| 19 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, May 3, 2009 11:02:39am |
re: #17 SasquatchOnSteroids
You know The Daily Show is fake, right ?
Seems real to me.
It's on COMEDYEFFIN'CENTRAL !
Yeah, there used to be girls jumping on trampolines. Whatever happened to them?
ARRRRGGGGG.
The girls on trampolines were the The Man Show's thing, IIRC. They were rather cute.
| 20 |
Shug Sun, May 3, 2009 11:03:12am |
95% of graduating history majors probably don't know any of this.
LGF is better than a college degree.
time to hit the tip jar
| 21 |
Idle Drifter Sun, May 3, 2009 11:03:39am |
re: #17 SasquatchOnSteroids
You know The Daily Show is fake, right ?
Seems real to me.
It's on COMEDYEFFIN'CENTRAL !
Yeah, there used to be girls jumping on trampolines. Whatever happened to them?
ARRRRGGGGG.
I'd rather watch The Man Show reruns till I go blind than watch the Daily Show.
| 22 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:04:27am |
re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist
The girls on trampolines were the The Man Show's thing, IIRC. They were rather cute.
correct ,, and both Kimmel and Carolla were very good
| 23 |
VioletTiger Sun, May 3, 2009 11:05:57am |
Bill hits it right on. Jon Stewart is an idiot who needs to study his history.
My father was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII and I wish he were still alive to beyotch-slap Mr. Stewart. The Japanese had no intention of surrendering. God bless Harry Truman.
| 24 |
sbvft contributor Sun, May 3, 2009 11:06:43am |
Stewart tried to take it back. Too late pal./// But the left gets their news from this clown. That's all you need to know.
| 25 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 11:07:50am |
All the news that you need to be an Obama rooter is the Daily Show, The Nation & Mother Jones
| 26 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 11:08:26am |
I loved Bill's line about "6 minutes of research". It's sad that facts are so meaningless to so many that they can't take the time to even look for them.
| 27 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 11:08:27am |
Jon Stewart just got owned, with the afterburners lit up.
| 28 |
Idle Drifter Sun, May 3, 2009 11:09:07am |
re: #18 sattv4u2
Not even on SNL,,,
Thats said, he was a writer on SNL, so I don't know how much of his writings were funny (preformed by someone else) But as an actor/ stand-up ,, NADA
It makes my skin crawl to think he's a hair away from a Senate Seat. Sometimes I think it was bad idea to amend the Constitution (17th) so Senators could be elected by popular elections rather than selected by the State Legislators.
| 29 |
looking closely Sun, May 3, 2009 11:09:42am |
I've read his columns, but never actually seen Whittle before.
Pretty striking presentation.
And yeah, he wipes the floor with Stewart. . .politely.
| 30 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 11:09:47am |
Few of these kids in college these days even bother with television, especially in the dorms. They use computers for nearly 100% for their information intake. In my daughter's dorm, there was one big central television down in the common area. The Daily Show was/is the only source of news for many of these kids. And yes, they consider it "real".
| 31 |
Timbre Sun, May 3, 2009 11:10:21am |
re: #20 Shug
95% of graduating history majors probably don't know any of this.
LGF is better than a college degree.
time to hit the tip jar
I received a B.A. in American history pre-1990 and did not know (or maybe remember) many of the details explained by Mr. Whittle. Great thread!
| 32 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:11:01am |
re: #30 pink freud
And yes, they consider it "real
Orf COURSE it's real!
They, like have a set and a desk and like EVERYTHING!
///
| 33 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:11:09am |
re: #12 chicagodudewhotrades
I'm not a Daily show watcher. About the only time Stewart has made me laugh is when he played a corrupt children's TV show exec in the movie 'Death to Smootchy'
Love that movie.
| 34 |
rain of lead Sun, May 3, 2009 11:11:42am |
re: #27 DEZes
Jon Stewart just got owned, with the afterburners lit up.
afterburners hell....more like this
| 35 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, May 3, 2009 11:11:45am |
re: #26 Sharmuta
I loved Bill's line about "6 minutes of research". It's sad that facts are so meaningless to so many that they can't take the time to even look for them.
An atomic blast off of the coast of Japan as a warning....
No wave action there, huh.
| 36 |
looking closely Sun, May 3, 2009 11:12:10am |
re: #30 pink freud
Few of these kids in college these days even bother with television, especially in the dorms. They use computers for nearly 100% for their information intake. In my daughter's dorm, there was one big central television down in the common area. The Daily Show was/is the only source of news for many of these kids. And yes, they consider it "real".
Unfortunately, its about as "real" as the rest of the fake news on the tube, and THAT'S what the problem is.
| 37 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 11:12:33am |
re: #11 jaunte
Very few people know about the advance warnings that were given to the Japanese; good on Bill Whittle for pointing it out.
I, for one, didn't know about that, and I will be grateful to Mr Whittle from this day forward for that lesson.
| 38 |
jaunte Sun, May 3, 2009 11:13:01am |
Excellent report; many thanks to Bill Whittle. Some of the information he reports can also be found in Paul Fussell's Thank God for the Atom Bomb and Other Essays
| 39 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 11:14:14am |
re: #34 rain of lead
afterburners hell....more like this
Heh, a person after my own heart.
Jon Stewart tried and failed in epic form, he has just had his ass handed to him on a plate, and I hope he enjoys the meal.
| 40 |
sbvft contributor Sun, May 3, 2009 11:14:17am |
Remember the angle he took on Cramer? That he (Cramer) was supposed to be a journalist who supposedly fell down on the job by not identifying the structural flaws in the financial industry/housing bubble meltdown? When in reality he gave Cramer the treatment because Cramer had the auducaity to criticise The Messiah's spending. Especially on an NBC network no less. What. A. Fraud.
| 41 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:14:25am |
re: #23 VioletTiger
Bill hits it right on. Jon Stewart is an idiot who needs to study his history.
My father was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII and I wish he were still alive to beyotch-slap Mr. Stewart. The Japanese had no intention of surrendering. God bless Harry Truman.
My dad had just finished the Philippine campaign and was training up for the invasion of Japan. He fell in love with the atomic bomb.
| 42 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 11:14:36am |
Jon Stewart & Letterman seem like two of the more narrow & dishonest people on television. What they have are adoring studio audiences & that seems to pump them up.
| 43 |
itellu3times Sun, May 3, 2009 11:14:55am |
Jimmy Carter reported to accept coca invitation from Evo Morales
A.M. Mora y Leon
Globovision of Caracas reports news that we hope is inaccurate, and which will be denied by former President Carter. The Venezuelan television network states that he has accepted an invitation to participate in the cultivation of coca with left wing Bolivian president Evo Morales, who grows it in Boliva.
| 44 |
Idle Drifter Sun, May 3, 2009 11:15:12am |
BBL, Red Wings/Ducks Game. May lurk in every now and then.
| 45 |
HelloDare Sun, May 3, 2009 11:15:14am |
Truman saved hundreds or thousands if not millions of Japanese lives. In the battle of Okinawa alone, an estimated 42,000–150,000 Japanese civilians were killed.
| 46 |
freedombilly Sun, May 3, 2009 11:15:25am |
| 47 |
Sunlight Sun, May 3, 2009 11:15:37am |
Jon Stewart is typical of so many people I know. He feels superior and noble in spouting his "values" and teaching them to his children, as he eye-rollingly shared. These people make me nauseated because, of course, they don't want to live like people do in these other countries that they express so much sympathy for. And they know in their bones that there are people out here who will do the heavy lifting needed to stay out of the dark ages. And that from the comfort of their comfy couch, they can smear these people, making themselves feel ever more superior. These are the people that I'm hoping Michael Oren might be able to influence with his knowledge of history and what happens when the barbarians (of any nationality, race, creed, etc.) are in charge.
| 48 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 11:15:43am |
re: #36 looking closely
Yep. They also have a hated for Fox news that is almost scary. I know a prof in San Diego who gave one of his students a zero for the semester because she cited a Fox news story (and admitted he would have accepted the story from any other news source.) Zero. Done. Get out. That was it. She appealed. He won. Scary stuff.
| 49 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:16:08am |
re: #42 opnion
Jon Stewart & Letterman seem like two of the more narrow & dishonest people on television. What they have are adoring studio audiences & that seems to pI
ump them up.
Welcome back bro.
| 50 |
FightingBack Sun, May 3, 2009 11:16:26am |
My mentor in Pediatrics was then a US sailor on his way to the Pacific and certain death. His life was saved by Harry S Truman. I say thank you from all the children that this man cared for, until his retirement from active practice at age 83 this year. And from all the children that I cared for, as a result of his teaching.
| 51 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, May 3, 2009 11:16:53am |
re: #43 itellu3times
Jimmy Carter reported to accept coca invitation from Evo Morales
Is Carter's supply running low? If someone told me he was on cocaine, I would believe it, since that would explain SO much about that idiot.
| 52 |
VioletTiger Sun, May 3, 2009 11:17:33am |
The Smithsonian Air and Space museum used to have an exhibit on the Enola Gay. I found it facinating. My father told us stories about the war and the Pacific, but I didn't share his interest at the time. When I read the info at the exhibit, it really struck me. One point I never forgot--the pilot of the Enola Gay named the plane after his mother--before he knew the nature of the mission.
| 53 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 11:18:23am |
| 54 |
sbvft contributor Sun, May 3, 2009 11:18:31am |
My father was in Korea (Purple Heart). Apparently, alot of the troops were pissed that Truman would not use battlefield nukes on the ChiComms.
| 55 |
itellu3times Sun, May 3, 2009 11:18:31am |
Back on topic, yes, Stewart makes an ass of himself, inspired by the assinine topic of "torture" and "war crimes" as spewed by the current leftards, none of them known in the first place for respecting facts or logic. I guess it's good for the yutes of today to hear the debate, like the Passover story needs retelling every year. Hmm, maybe we should make Hiroshima Day a national holiday. I'll get back to ya on just what the ceremonies ought to include.
| 56 |
Bubblehead II Sun, May 3, 2009 11:20:36am |
re: #43 itellu3times
Well that might explain why he is so nutty.
| 57 |
sbvft contributor Sun, May 3, 2009 11:20:38am |
Maybe someone could ask Obama this? Victor D Hanson :
"I’ve raised this example twice now. But, really, how is waterboarding a known detained terrorist like Khalid Sheik Mohammed (who confessed to cutting off Daniel Pearl’s head [with two knives after the first went dull], and to planning the 9/11 mass murder) at Guantanamo considered a war crime, while blowing up with a Predator drone suspected terrorists (and all those, including women and children, in their general vicinity) not?"
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]
| 58 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:20:50am |
re: #53 opnion
Hi Rick. Welcome back?
Long time and highly liked lizard got the stick a couple days ago, I thought it was you but must not have been.
| 59 |
Sunlight Sun, May 3, 2009 11:22:04am |
I hope Brit Hume sees Bill Whittle's work on this. I keep wanting Brit to move over to PJTV to solidify them, bring in the donor stream, rev up the revenue stream for PJTV, etc. He would be a fantastic addition and, assuming he'll be one of those people who never actually retire, PJTV would be a way for his to do a historical task - organizing citizen journalism into a permanent business.
| 60 |
CynicalConservative Sun, May 3, 2009 11:22:30am |
re: #58 VegasRick
Long time and highly liked lizard got the stick a couple days ago, I thought it was you but must not have been.
that was opinionated I think...
| 62 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:23:45am |
re: #60 CynicalConservative
that was opinionated I think...
You're right. I knew there was an opinion in there somewhere.
| 64 |
Killgore Trout Sun, May 3, 2009 11:24:15am |
OT: get ready to panic....
Napolitano Declines to Rule Out Interest in Supreme Court Appointment
| 66 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:25:10am |
re: #61 zuckerlilly
can't view the video :-(
Save it somewhere for future viewing. You DO NOT want to miss it, awesome!
| 67 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:25:40am |
re: #64 Killgore Trout
OT: get ready to panic....
Napolitano Declines to Rule Out Interest in Supreme Court Appointment
And the jokes from this administration just keep on coming.
| 68 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 11:26:07am |
re: #64 Killgore Trout
OT: get ready to panic....
Napolitano Declines to Rule Out Interest in Supreme Court Appointment
Saw that. Yeah, but that's ok ...after thinking about all of his choices, I'd say she has about a zero chance of getting the nomination.
| 69 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:26:18am |
re: #64 Killgore Trout
OT: get ready to panic....
Napolitano Declines to Rule Out Interest in Supreme Court Appointment
Now that she has the DoHS running like a fine Swiss timepiece!
| 70 |
freedombilly Sun, May 3, 2009 11:26:25am |
re: #16 Idle Drifter
Was he ever funny?
I take it back. His radio show on Air America was absolutely freaking hilarious!
| 72 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 11:26:48am |
re: #58 VegasRick
Long time and highly liked lizard got the stick a couple days ago, I thought it was you but must not have been.
Oh, no wasn't me, at least as far as I can tell
| 73 |
Taqyia2Me Sun, May 3, 2009 11:27:13am |
Apologies for going OT, but:
A buddy had his laptop stolen from his office. It's about 2 years old and he used a wireless card to get online.
Can this be tracked to get recovered?
| 74 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:27:21am |
re: #67 Soona'
And the jokes from this administration just keep on coming.
I think we are gonna get this guy.
Image: flavor-flav.jpg
| 75 |
Bloodnok Sun, May 3, 2009 11:27:26am |
re: #64 Killgore Trout
OT: get ready to panic....
Napolitano Declines to Rule Out Interest in Supreme Court Appointment
This will be fun to watch. Charles, better Scotchguard the furniture.
| 76 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 11:27:27am |
re: #66 VegasRick
Save it somewhere for future viewing. You DO NOT want to miss it, awesome!
Best spent 16 minutes of my day!
| 77 |
justdanny Sun, May 3, 2009 11:27:55am |
OT
Heres something ya'll won't see otherwise. Ronnie Dunn of the band Brooks and Dunn, along with a guy I've known for 35 years wrote this tune. The guy I know plays all the instruments and wrote the music. Ronnie Dunn sings and wrote the lyrics.
| 78 |
neverquit Sun, May 3, 2009 11:29:01am |
This is the warning after the 1st Bomb:
TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:
America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.
We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.
Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.
You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.
EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
| 79 |
studentpatriot Sun, May 3, 2009 11:29:55am |
anyone have trouble with playback? I can get the pjtv plug, but the actual video never loads
| 80 |
freedombilly Sun, May 3, 2009 11:29:59am |
Who got the stick two days ago? I've been out of the loop.
| 81 |
jordash1212 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:30:04am |
That was so satisfying. My global studies professor opens up our class usually with news clips and frequently uses Jon Stewart. It satisfies me so much just imagining his face after Bill Whittle finished with him.
| 84 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:31:58am |
| 85 |
CynicalConservative Sun, May 3, 2009 11:32:00am |
| 86 |
doppelganglander Sun, May 3, 2009 11:32:13am |
re: #68 pink freud
Saw that. Yeah, but that's ok ...after thinking about all of his choices, I'd say she has about a zero chance of getting the nomination.
Agreed. She is delusional.
| 87 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 11:33:49am |
| 88 |
Killian Bundy Sun, May 3, 2009 11:34:03am |
We killed way more civilians firebombing cities with incendiaries.
/war is hell
| 89 |
VioletTiger Sun, May 3, 2009 11:34:24am |
Another video at the link above with Bill Whittle-"The Cost of Media Bias" is also worth watching.
| 91 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:36:53am |
re: #74 VegasRick
Nah. He'll replace Napolitano when she goes to the SCOTUS.
| 92 |
QueenEsther Sun, May 3, 2009 11:39:06am |
That was a great presentation. I wish that Stewart, and anyone who takes fake, dumbed-down history lessons from him, would pay attention to this.
To call Harry Truman a war criminal is disgusting. And what a brilliant foreign policy advisor Stewart is -- set off an atomic bomb off the shore of Japan? The resulting tsunami alone would kill as many people as setting off the bomb on land, not to mention the repercussions in the sea.
Stewart, Leibowitz, whoever you are, you are a shmuck. Feh!
| 94 |
Killgore Trout Sun, May 3, 2009 11:39:17am |
Racism row as BNP deputy calls Archbishop of York an 'ambitious African'
The deputy leader of the British National Party was today branded a racist after calling the Archbishop of York an ‘ambitious African’ and made ‘spear thrower’ comments about Ugandans.
Simon Darby criticised Uganda-born Dr John Sentamu after the cleric hit out against the BNP’s call for black and Asian Britons to be described as ‘racial foreigners’ in future.
Darby, who is bidding to become a Midlands Euro MP, said: ‘Dr Sentamu should not interfere in the political process.
‘He’s not in any position to tell me or anyone else who is, or isn’t, English.
‘If I went to Uganda and told them that they were all genetic mongrels and that anyone could be Ugandan I’d still be picking spears out of myself now.’
| 95 |
Killgore Trout Sun, May 3, 2009 11:40:46am |
Headline of the day....
Ed Balls must be sacked
| 96 |
Killian Bundy Sun, May 3, 2009 11:41:06am |
re: #93 buzzsawmonkey
Those who remember the horrific D-Day scenes in Saving Private Ryan should consider that the Americans being prepped for the home island invasion were told, as part of their briefing, that virtually nobody in the first five waves of the attack were expected to make it ashore alive.
Think about that for a few minutes.
| 97 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 11:41:15am |
To people like Stewart, their feelings are more important than facts.
They WANT to be like they are.
| 98 |
freedombilly Sun, May 3, 2009 11:41:38am |
re: #85 CynicalConservative
Just went back. That was quite a thread!
| 99 |
sbvft contributor Sun, May 3, 2009 11:42:32am |
There's a good book I read in college in my WWII class. "The Night Tokyo Burned." One night's firebombing in Tokyo was more deadly than either of the atomic blasts. I guess John Stewart would have preferred continuing this more deadly means of attack?
([Link: www.amazon.com...]
"Most of the numerous volumes of military history concerning the final phase of the war in the Pacific have concentrated on the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Equally fearsome and more costly in human and physical destruction were the firebomb raids over Japan. The largest and deadliest of these was the March 9-10, 1945 attack on Tokyo, treated here."
| 101 |
CynicalConservative Sun, May 3, 2009 11:43:04am |
re: #98 freedombilly
Just went back. That was quite a thread!
I missed the final-straw comment, but not difficult to see it was coming in some of the earlier ones I was able to read before they were deleted.
| 102 |
jaunte Sun, May 3, 2009 11:43:19am |
re: #95 Killgore Trout
Balls must be sacked? The Daily Mail continues to hold its own.
| 104 |
Macker Sun, May 3, 2009 11:45:28am |
re: #52 VioletTiger
The Smithsonian Air and Space museum used to have an exhibit on the Enola Gay. I found it facinating. My father told us stories about the war and the Pacific, but I didn't share his interest at the time. When I read the info at the exhibit, it really struck me. One point I never forgot--the pilot of the Enola Gay named the plane after his mother--before he knew the nature of the mission.
Enola Gay photos:
Forward fuselage
Little Boy replica
| 105 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:45:32am |
re: #102 jaunte
Balls must be sacked? The Daily Mail continues to hold its own.
Ed's brother Harry needs a shave.
| 106 |
Sunlight Sun, May 3, 2009 11:45:48am |
re: #96 Killian Bundy
I've been reading a book about the USS Bunker Hill, which covers basically the macro and micro on both sides. Amazingly brave, horrible... I'm just afraid people like Jon Stewart will just lie down. He needs to read up on Japan, Japan in the neighboring countries, etc. before he proclaims that standing up for the self is a war crime. Because that basically is what he is saying.
| 107 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:45:56am |
re: #102 jaunte
Balls must be sacked? The Daily Mail continues to hold its own.
You would think they would be athletically protected!
| 108 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:46:09am |
| 109 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:46:53am |
| 111 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:47:34am |
Off to heat the pool, first swim of the year! BBL.
| 112 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 11:48:08am |
| 113 |
Sunlight Sun, May 3, 2009 11:48:38am |
Danger's Hour: The Story of the USS Bunker Hill and the Kamikaze Pilot Who Crippled Her
I see they have a kindle version... I'm almost done with the Audible version.
| 114 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:49:34am |
re: #112 pre-Boomer Marine brat
We're really strapped for humor today, aren't we.
We'll be hanging in there, though.
| 115 |
Macker Sun, May 3, 2009 11:49:43am |
re: #71 buzzsawmonkey
Bravo Bill Whittle.
My father--who worked on the Project at Chicago--was often asked if he "had any regrets" at having done so. His invariable reply, "Yes. I regret we did not finish the bomb in time to drop it on Germany."
Yes, Bar-B-Q Hitler sounds real good right about now!
| 116 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:50:19am |
| 117 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 11:50:26am |
re: #112 pre-Boomer Marine brat
We're really strapped for humor today, aren't we.
I'm not groin to comment!
| 118 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:51:05am |
re: #115 Macker
Yes, Bar-B-Q Hitler sounds real good right about now!
But isn't that what happened to him anyway?
| 119 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:51:57am |
| 121 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 11:54:04am |
| 122 |
Macker Sun, May 3, 2009 11:54:16am |
re: #118 Soona'
But isn't that what happened to him anyway?
Yes, and it would have been much nicer if WE did that to him, not the Soviets.
| 123 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 11:54:19am |
re: #117 sattv4u2
I'm not groin to comment!
In prostating yourself to jock-ularity, you're driving the rest of us to put our Hanes in the air in surrender.
/just giving you some support
| 124 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:56:03am |
re: #122 Macker
Yes, and it would have been much nicer if WE did that to him, not the Soviets.
We do have better sauce, don't we?
| 125 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 11:56:18am |
(now that we've got a jockstrap/male genital pun-thread going, ...
... ... this would be a perfect time for Goddess to show up)
| 126 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:56:47am |
| 127 |
yma o hyd Sun, May 3, 2009 11:57:19am |
Here's some more bad news for Gord:
On top of all the PM's difficulties dealing with the Press, now he has trouble with dogs too
Awww - he's doomed, I tellsya, doomed!
| 128 |
doppelganglander Sun, May 3, 2009 11:57:38am |
re: #121 DEZes
Don't get all testes on me. ;)
What's the vas deferens between this and any other pun thread?
| 129 |
solomonpanting Sun, May 3, 2009 11:58:23am |
| 130 |
zuckerlilly Sun, May 3, 2009 11:58:29am |
re: #66 VegasRick
Save it somewhere for future viewing. You DO NOT want to miss it, awesome!
It doesn't work, I only get the moving around circle but the video doesn't play. :-(
| 132 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 11:58:47am |
re: #126 VegasRick
Why are you two nuts pricking on me!
These punfests are getting to be too hard on me.
| 135 |
VegasRick Sun, May 3, 2009 11:59:59am |
re: #132 Soona'
These punfests are getting to be too hard on me.
If a light sleeper sleeps with a light on, what does a hard sleeper sleep with?
| 138 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:02:15pm |
re: #134 Iron Fist
It would have been a much different war if Hitler had re-enforced Rommel in North Africa instead of invading the USSR.
Or merely taken Malta.
| 139 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, May 3, 2009 12:03:08pm |
re: #135 VegasRick
If a light sleeper sleeps with a light on, what does a hard sleeper sleep with?
whatever's available at the bar after 2am ?
| 140 |
Yosemite Bill Sun, May 3, 2009 12:03:25pm |
My late Father in Law was to be part of the assault on the Jap home islands.
In the Ameri Cal(sp?) Division and in the South Pacific he had joined the army shortly after Pearl and had not seen his first child, a daughter born in March of '42.
He would not see her until the late summer of '45. Had it NOT been for H Truman's spine - he had enough grasp on reality to understand the consequences on a ground invasion of Japan- I am certain that my wife and her two other older siblings - born after their father's return, would never have happened.
Jon Stewart is an ASS as are all who hold these detached, delusional, morally vapid views of what has been and is necessary to defeat evil - that is the Dark Side of human nature.
I am certain the the tactics used by the GI's on the ground in the South Pacific and Europe in WW II would have gotten them convicted as "war criminals" by the "Progressives" who now run the US government. Such is the insular world these "elites" now inhabit. No thanks to those who sacrificed their lives of course.
BHO and E Holder call the office please. History on the phone !
| 141 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:03:28pm |
| 142 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:05:03pm |
re: #134 Iron Fist
It would have been a much different war if Hitler had re-enforced Rommel in North Africa instead of invading the USSR.
That was Hitler's biggest mistake. I mean, other than being a drug-addicted crazy asshole. His other big mistake was his hatred for the Jews. It was the Jewish scientifc geniuses that fled Germany to the US that gave us the atomic bomb.
| 143 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:05:18pm |
| 145 |
dwells38 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:05:57pm |
re: #24 sbvft contributor
I too found his retraction unconvincing. It was something to the effect "I just blurted it out and immediate knew it was wrong". At his age it's plain unbelievable he doesn't know where he stands on the events of WWII. It took him two days to realize he immediately knew it was wrong? BS. He should have amended it right there with Cliff May.
I'm not sure whether he's truly a left peacenik fool or whether he's smartly staked out his pandering space. If the former then I also think he's a coward and merely hiding behind his supposed comic persona.
He seemed more even handed when he first came out but after Iraq there seemed to be a turning point where he simply would not give the Bush Admin even a sliver of a chance.
But I really squirm watching him go from clown to attack dog and back. I saw it first when he called Tucker Carlson a dick on CNN and it really shocked Carlson (and me). Just my opinion but comedians have ample chance to get their ironic points through their comedy. But they lose me when the funny man turns suddenly serious and aggressive.
.
| 146 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:06:10pm |
| 147 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:06:51pm |
re: #135 VegasRick
If a light sleeper sleeps with a light on, what does a hard sleeper sleep with?
There was a radio DJ in the early 60's that was fired for telling that joke on one of his morning show.
| 148 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:07:18pm |
| 150 |
brookly red Sun, May 3, 2009 12:09:01pm |
re: #148 pre-Boomer Marine brat
With the way this one's headed, the next pun-thread's topic will B VD.
that's nothing to clap about...
| 152 |
dwells38 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:10:29pm |
re: #92 QueenEsther
That was a great presentation. I wish that Stewart, and anyone who takes fake, dumbed-down history lessons from him, would pay attention to this.
To call Harry Truman a war criminal is disgusting. And what a brilliant foreign policy advisor Stewart is -- set off an atomic bomb off the shore of Japan? The resulting tsunami alone would kill as many people as setting off the bomb on land, not to mention the repercussions in the sea.
Stewart, Leibowitz, whoever you are, you are a shmuck. Feh!
Fantastic point I hadn't even thought of (the tsunami)! I thought it was stupid becaue we already know they didn't surrender immediately after the first bomb. They still had to think about it!
| 153 |
Killgore Trout Sun, May 3, 2009 12:10:39pm |
High school teacher's anti-Creationism comment violated law
A Mission Viejo high school history teacher violated the First Amendment by disparaging Christians during a classroom lecture, a federal judge ruled today.
James Corbett, a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School, referred to Creationism as “religious, superstitious nonsense” during a 2007 classroom lecture, denigrating his former Advanced Placement European history student, Chad Farnan.
.....
"Corbett states an unequivocal belief that Creationism is 'superstitious nonsense,'" U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said in a 37-page ruling released from his Santa Ana courtroom. "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context."In a December 2007 lawsuit, Farnan, then a sophomore, accused Corbett of repeatedly promoting hostility toward Christians in class and advocating "irreligion over religion" in violation of the First Amendment's establishment clause.
.....
"We are thrilled with the judge's ruling and feel it sets great precedent," said Farnan's attorney, Jennifer Monk, who works for the Christian legal group Advocates for Faith &Freedom in Murrieta. "Hopefully, teachers in the future, including Dr. Corbett, will think about what they're saying and attempt to ensure they're not violating the establishment clause as Dr. Corbett has done."
...
Farnan's original lawsuit asked for damages and attorney's fees. These issues – plus a possible court injunction prohibiting Corbett from making hostile remarks about religion – will be considered in court at a future, undetermined date, Monk said.
Wow. I can't imagine this will case will hold up after the appeal.
| 154 |
Killian Bundy Sun, May 3, 2009 12:10:53pm |
The Joint Chiefs of Staff estimated that Olympic alone would cost 456,000 men, including 109,000 killed. Including Coronet, it was estimated that America would experience 1.2 million casualties, with 267,000 deaths.Staff working for Chester Nimitz, calculated that the first 30 days of Olympic alone would cost 49,000 men. MacArthur’s staff concluded that America would suffer 125,000 casualties after 120 days, a figure that was later reduced to 105,000 casualties after his staff subtracted the men who when wounded could return to battle.
General Marshall, in conference with President Truman, estimated 31,000 in 30 days after landing in Kyushu. Admiral Leahy estimated that the invasion would cost 268,000 casualties. Personnel at the Navy Department estimated that the total losses to America would be between 1.7 and 4 million with 400,000 to 800,000 deaths. The same department estimated that there would be up to 10 million Japanese casualties. The ‘Los Angeles Times’ estimated that America would suffer up to 1 million casualties.
Hmmm, drop the bombs or risk doubling the American death toll for the entire war? Decisions, decisions.
/not really even a hard decision, save the lives, bombs away
| 155 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:10:57pm |
re: #148 pre-Boomer Marine brat
With the way this one's headed, the next pun-thread's topic will B VD.
Maybe we should wart it off.
| 157 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:12:41pm |
re: #150 brookly red
that's nothing to clap about...
Y'all are starting to sound like a bunch of fallen prostatants.
| 159 |
eric castillo Sun, May 3, 2009 12:13:13pm |
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
| 160 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:13:37pm |
re: #157 Soona'
Y'all are starting to sound like a bunch of fallen prostatants.
I think I'll just hang around.
| 161 |
katemaclaren Sun, May 3, 2009 12:13:41pm |
That does it. When school begins in the fall, I'm assigning a related topic for my English 102 classes' research papers. One small step....
| 162 |
Macker Sun, May 3, 2009 12:14:30pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
Why the fuck should he? That little teabagging bastard on TV deserves to be called out and I'm glad Bill did this.
| 163 |
doppelganglander Sun, May 3, 2009 12:15:08pm |
re: #153 Killgore Trout
High school teacher's anti-Creationism comment violated law
Wow. I can't imagine this will case will hold up after the appeal.
Sure it will. Didn't you notice the First Amendment now includes the right not to have your feelings hurt?
Seriously, it sounds like the teacher was over the line, but the student is a whiny little bitch.
| 164 |
solomonpanting Sun, May 3, 2009 12:15:12pm |
re: #154 Killian Bundy
Hmmm, drop the bombs or risk doubling the American death toll for the entire war? Decisions, decisions.
/not really even a hard decision, save the lives, bombs away
But, for Stewart, the big crime was the loss of Japanese lives as a result of dropping the two bombs. I get the feeling he couldn't care less about US lives. Stewart is to critical thinking as Ward Churchill is to authentic Native American professors.
| 165 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:15:27pm |
There were two reasons the Afrika Korps bogged down in front of el Alamein.
First and foremost was the shortage of fuel (and other supplies.) Ships and aircraft operating from Malta were getting a stranglehold on Italian convoys. The RN had two (IIRC) radar-equipped cruisers operating from Malta.
The second was the shortage of another Panzer division or two, with which Rommel could have flanked the Qattara Depression.
As long as #1 stood, #2 was academic.
| 166 |
Alberta Oil Peon Sun, May 3, 2009 12:15:55pm |
re: #122 Macker
Yes, and it would have been much nicer if WE did that to him, not the Soviets.
Well, it was his own staff who grilled him, after he'd shot himself. Of course had he not suicided, he would indeed have fallen into Soviet hands.
| 167 |
The Shadow Do Sun, May 3, 2009 12:16:26pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
Somebody must have informed him that Truman was a Democrat.
| 168 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:16:44pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
I give Stewart props for his apology, but we Lizards and Whittle owe him no retractions. Stewart said it and Whittles and our comments were based on that
| 169 |
WindHorse Sun, May 3, 2009 12:16:48pm |
John Stewart is a comedian? According to whom?
| 171 |
Macker Sun, May 3, 2009 12:17:22pm |
re: #166 Alberta Oil Peon
Well, it was his own staff who grilled him, after he'd shot himself. Of course had he not suicided, he would indeed have fallen into Soviet hands.
I stand corrected. :)
| 172 |
Killgore Trout Sun, May 3, 2009 12:17:33pm |
re: #163 doppelganglander
Seriously, it sounds like the teacher was over the line, but the student is a whiny little bitch.
Agreed. The case does raise some interesting questions but my initial reaction is that the ruling won't hold up. The RoP would love to have this as a legal precedent.
| 173 |
chicagodudewhotrades Sun, May 3, 2009 12:18:01pm |
re: #165 pre-Boomer Marine brat
I think Hitler was scared of invading Malta after the losses the German Paratroops took during the invasion of Crete
| 174 |
Killian Bundy Sun, May 3, 2009 12:18:10pm |
re: #165 pre-Boomer Marine brat
There were two reasons the Afrika Korps bogged down in front of el Alamein.
First and foremost was the shortage of fuel (and other supplies.) Ships and aircraft operating from Malta were getting a stranglehold on Italian convoys. The RN had two (IIRC) radar-equipped cruisers operating from Malta.
The second was the shortage of another Panzer division or two, with which Rommel could have flanked the Qattara Depression.
As long as #1 stood, #2 was academic.
/didn't hurt that we had broken their code and were reading their mail either
| 175 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:19:25pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
Well whoopy, now stewart should apologize for the rest of his revisionist history that the video ripped apart.
| 176 |
eaglewingz08 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:20:07pm |
The PJTV rebuttal of Stewart is a true palate cleanser as Allah would say.
There's another palate cleanser on moonbattery, it's with Condi Rice giving a verbal waterboarding to a koolaid tinfoil hat libtard student. It's five minutes of pure pleasure and also a reminder of the loss to this country when the grownups left Wash DC last January and the juveniles took over gov't.
| 179 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 12:21:18pm |
re: #163 doppelganglander
Sure it will. Didn't you notice the First Amendment now includes the right not to have your feelings hurt?
Seriously, it sounds like the teacher was over the line, but the student is a whiny little bitch.
THe guy is a history teacher? Is he teaching the history of the Big Bang?
ID & Creationism should not be taught in science class, but why was this teacher even commenting on creationism?
| 180 |
jaunte Sun, May 3, 2009 12:21:30pm |
re: #163 doppelganglander
Farnan's lawsuit had cited more than 20 inflammatory statements attributed to Corbett, including "Conservatives don't want women to avoid pregnancies – that's interfering with God's work" and "When you pray for divine intervention, you're hoping that the spaghetti monster will help you get what you want."
In an April 3 tentative ruling, however, Selna dismissed all but two of the statements as either not directly referring to religion or as being appropriate in the context of a class lecture, including the headline-grabbing "When you put on your Jesus glasses, you can't see the truth."
It's hard to see how effective he could be as a teacher if he was in the habit of tossing this kind of distraction at his students.
| 181 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:21:44pm |
re: #176 eaglewingz08
The PJTV rebuttal of Stewart is a true palate cleanser as Allah would say.
There's another palate cleanser on moonbattery, it's with Condi Rice giving a verbal waterboarding to a koolaid tinfoil hat libtard student. It's five minutes of pure pleasure and also a reminder of the loss to this country when the grownups left Wash DC last January and the juveniles took over gov't.
link?!?!?
| 182 |
dwells38 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:22:01pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
Just sounds like more zany jokes to me. Which one's the joke? Harry Truman's a war criminal? Or I said something stupid the other day and now I'm mugging thru the apology to play both sides safely? Or I want to keep my show which I can't do with everyone mad at me?
How about I go watch some Seinfeld reruns or a Jim Carey movie and get some real ha ha laughs. Better yet maybe I can find some old recordings of Collin Quinn who had opposing viewpoints comedians that resulted in some really funny segments where everyone gets a say.
| 183 |
Killgore Trout Sun, May 3, 2009 12:22:06pm |
re: #170 Iron Fist
The Judge applied the Lemon Test to his statement that creationism is "superstitious nonsense" and found that he was promoting an irreligious viewpoint. That would also prohibit science teachers from dismissing Alchemy as "superstitious nonsense". Same goes for Astrology and rabbit's feet for good luck. I just don't think that would hold up.
| 184 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:22:22pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
"Full throated"? ... Bullshit.
His first words, to Whittle, were more sincere.
I do NOT retract.
| 185 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:23:22pm |
re: #169 WindHorse
John Stewart is a comedian? According to whom?
According to the studio flunkey who keys the laugh track.
| 187 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:23:51pm |
re: #179 opnion
THe guy is a history teacher? Is he teaching the history of the Big Bang?
ID & Creationism should not be taught in science class, but why was this teacher even commenting on creationism?
Probably talking about the US oppression of all the peace-loving Muslim nations.
| 188 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 12:23:59pm |
| 189 |
eaglewingz08 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:24:16pm |
As for Stewart's 'apology', he stated he knew it was wrong the minute he stated it, yet Cliff May gave Stewart another chance later in the debate to back down, but Stewart was even more intransigent and again called Truman a war criminal. That is why I don't believe this apology is anything other than a CYA public announcement. Although it's nice that his lips are making the apology, based upon his own arguments, Stewart has no rational basis for exempting Truman as a war criminal. In fact it makes Stewart look more insane and unprincipled to make this apology while retaining his holier than thou arguments of his debate. However, any small glimpse of insight of a liberal into their insane beliefs I guess have to be latched onto, no matter how insubstantial and disingenuous we might believe them to be.
| 190 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:24:37pm |
| 191 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 12:25:19pm |
re: #190 sattv4u2
tanks!
BTW ,,,, How's you-know-who!?!?!
Fine as frog's hair, sattv, just doing wonderful. Thanks for asking. :-)
| 192 |
Alberta Oil Peon Sun, May 3, 2009 12:25:48pm |
re: #180 jaunte
It's hard to see how effective he could be as a teacher if he was in the habit of tossing this kind of distraction at his students.
Sounds like this professor was one of those asshole atheists who never miss an opportunity to mock and belittle believers. One of the one-percenters, LOL.
| 193 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:25:51pm |
re: #174 Killian Bundy
/didn't hurt that we had broken their code and were reading their mail either
Correct. That was a great help.
I was focused solely upon Rommel's tactical situation in front of el Alamein.
| 194 |
Jimmah Sun, May 3, 2009 12:26:39pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
It's good that he apologised, bad that he minimized his error to the level of a mere tongue malfunction.
| 195 |
Killgore Trout Sun, May 3, 2009 12:26:42pm |
re: #183 Killgore Trout
...and she gave him a pass on this statement only because Mark Twain said it first.....
For the other disputed statement – in which Corbett was accused of saying religion was "invented when the first con man met the first fool" – the judge ruled in Corbett's favor, arguing Corbett may have been simply attempting to quote American author Mark Twain.Corbett's full statement was, "What was it Mark Twain said? 'Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.'"
I think it's a bad verdict and will likely be overturned.
| 196 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:26:56pm |
| 197 |
HelloDare Sun, May 3, 2009 12:27:25pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
Stewart did apologized but he used the opportunity to make jokes. It would have appeared more sincere if he had broken with the comedy format for a few seconds and delivered a serious apology, sans the "humor".
The audience laughed. The apology wasn't full throated. It was half-assed.
| 198 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 12:27:30pm |
re: #187 Soona'
Probably talking about the US oppression of all the peace-loving Muslim nations.
Well guess that makes sense, "Opression of Muslims from the Crusades through the Criminal Bush."
| 199 |
eaglewingz08 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:28:14pm |
link to youtube (of Stanford Univ disembowlment of libtards):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijEED_iviTA
| 200 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:30:33pm |
re: #198 opnion
Well guess that makes sense, "Opression of Muslims from the Crusades through the Criminal Bush."
Wasn't there supposed to be a sarc tag there?
| 201 |
Gus Sun, May 3, 2009 12:30:36pm |
Video took a while to load but it was well worth the wait. Whittle presents a compelling argument backed with historical facts of which I fully agree.
This meme that Truman was a war criminal is common with many on the left and extends to other beyond Truman. This is an outgrowth of the one-sided teachings we find in many history classes adhering to an anti-war and revisionist stance bordering on a religion of the left. I am not sure if the left would follow the rationale of Whittle's words but they would have much to learn if they took the time to watch this video.
Jon Stewart delivered what I feel was a half hearted apology. At the very least he should have delivered it with as serious a tone as he did when he cast his assumption that Harry S. Truman (D) was a "war criminal."
| 202 |
dwells38 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:30:36pm |
re: #179 opnion
THe guy is a history teacher? Is he teaching the history of the Big Bang?
ID & Creationism should not be taught in science class, but why was this teacher even commenting on creationism?
It's a good point. I happen to agree with him on Creationism but if he was making the kids feel like they are being attacked that's not fair either. I don't know all the facts but if a teacher should understand that the youngsters in class are under considerable pressure to conform to their families and communities and my guess is flaming evolutionist doesn't get you much popularity in most of these social situations. Adults always have to understand even when they think the kids are mouthy, opinionated or even seemingly disrespecfl they can hurt those kids with their words. Many kids put on like they're tough but they expect adults to not take the gloves off.
| 203 |
doppelganglander Sun, May 3, 2009 12:30:49pm |
re: #179 opnion
THe guy is a history teacher? Is he teaching the history of the Big Bang?
ID & Creationism should not be taught in science class, but why was this teacher even commenting on creationism?
I think his comments referred more to the role of religion in European history, which is unarguably vital to the topic. However, he was incredibly obnoxious and disrespectful about it.
| 204 |
Peter_Wiggin Sun, May 3, 2009 12:30:49pm |
That was an incredible report. He didn't mention one important detail, though. On August 16th, 1945, the Japanese successfully tested their own atomic bomb on an island off the coast of Korea. Had they not surrendered, the bomb would have been used on the Allied invasion force. Estimated casualties: 1.5 million.
Side note, the bombing of Tokyo delayed their research by 1 month. Imagine if they had the bomb in July...
| 205 |
PSGInfinity Sun, May 3, 2009 12:30:50pm |
| 206 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:31:25pm |
re: #173 chicagodudewhotrades
I think Hitler was scared of invading Malta after the losses the German Paratroops took during the invasion of Crete
IIRC, the Italian Folgore Division (paratroops, and a damned fine unit) arrived in North Africa in time to go into the lines at el Alamein. Rhetorically, Adolph, why not let the Italians take the casualties along with the island?
No, I think Uncle Adolph was obsessed with Russia.
| 208 |
pink freud Sun, May 3, 2009 12:32:34pm |
Savannah Winslow posted this in the spinoffs but I thought it worth a re-post here:
Man decorates basement with $10 worth of Sharpie
Here's her spinoff link if you want to upding.
Amazing.
| 209 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 12:33:04pm |
| 210 |
Jimmah Sun, May 3, 2009 12:34:09pm |
re: #170 Iron Fist
I don't think the establishment clause is there to provide a shield for religion when it brings itself into dispute with the world of facts. That would be tantamount to a blasphemy law.
| 211 |
Sharmuta Sun, May 3, 2009 12:34:20pm |
Bummer- "my" house is already in the process of being sold. Oh, well.
| 212 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:34:55pm |
re: #204 Peter_Wiggin
That was an incredible report. He didn't mention one important detail, though. On August 16th, 1945, the Japanese successfully tested their own atomic bomb on an island off the coast of Korea. Had they not surrendered, the bomb would have been used on the Allied invasion force. Estimated casualties: 1.5 million.
Side note, the bombing of Tokyo delayed their research by 1 month. Imagine if they had the bomb in July...
Can you give a credible reference for that?
| 213 |
opnion Sun, May 3, 2009 12:35:32pm |
re: #203 doppelganglander
I think his comments referred more to the role of religion in European history, which is unarguably vital to the topic. However, he was incredibly obnoxious and disrespectful about it.
Thank's, now I get it.
IT just reminded me of my Lit Prof in college having a debate about the Viet Nam War, in Lit class.
| 214 |
guftafs Sun, May 3, 2009 12:35:57pm |
re: #94 Killgore Trout
‘He’s not in any position to tell me or anyone else who is, or isn’t, English. ...
But Mr Darby apparently can because he can trace his ancestry three generations back to the soil on which he now lives? How more explicit can you be?
| 215 |
quickjustice Sun, May 3, 2009 12:36:55pm |
"A page of history is worth a volume of logic."
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
| 216 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:37:06pm |
re: #204 Peter_Wiggin
That was an incredible report. He didn't mention one important detail, though. On August 16th, 1945, the Japanese successfully tested their own atomic bomb on an island off the coast of Korea. Had they not surrendered, the bomb would have been used on the Allied invasion force. Estimated casualties: 1.5 million.
Side note, the bombing of Tokyo delayed their research by 1 month. Imagine if they had the bomb in July...
Did you hear that on George Noory's Coast to Coast show?
| 217 |
Bob Dillon Sun, May 3, 2009 12:37:14pm |
re: #23 VioletTiger
Bill hits it right on. Jon Stewart is an idiot who needs to study his history.
My father was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII and I wish he were still alive to beyotch-slap Mr. Stewart. The Japanese had no intention of surrendering. God bless Harry Truman.
[Link: www.wanpela.com...]
March 5, 1974 - Lubang Island - 2nd Lt. Hiroo Onoda
Probably the most 'famous' of the Japanese holdouts, Onoda was the only survivor of a group of four. He surrendered 29 years after Japan's formal surrender, and 15 years after being declared legally dead in Japan. When he accepted that the war was over, he wept openly.
| 218 |
Peter_Wiggin Sun, May 3, 2009 12:38:32pm |
re: #212 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Can you give a credible reference for that?
Nobody believes me...
[Link: www.veoh.com...]
Or punch "japanese atomic bomb" into google, thousands of articles.
| 219 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:39:08pm |
re: #216 Soona'
Did you hear that on George Noory's Coast to Coast show?
I'm not familiar with that show. From your context, it sounds lunatic. Correct?
| 220 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:39:15pm |
re: #212 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Can you give a credible reference for that?
I have never heard that before.
I need to google.
| 221 |
Peter_Wiggin Sun, May 3, 2009 12:40:25pm |
re: #216 Soona'
Did you hear that on George Noory's Coast to Coast show?
I bought a book on Japanese pop history while I was in Tokyo. Many fascinating stories.
| 224 |
Jimmah Sun, May 3, 2009 12:42:16pm |
"The Times" travelogue writer in ludicrous whitewash of Syria:
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
| 225 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:42:53pm |
re: #218 Peter_Wiggin
Hmmm.
I wonder why no one believes.
| 226 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:43:37pm |
| 227 |
Jimmah Sun, May 3, 2009 12:43:39pm |
re: #222 Iron Fist
Are you saying it's 'teaching religion' to point out that creationism is nonsense?
| 228 |
Killian Bundy Sun, May 3, 2009 12:44:01pm |
re: #220 DEZes
I have never heard that before.
I need to google.
The stories are out there. The Japanese supposedly had two separate, parallel programs and conducted the atomic test mentioned and all the records were subsequently destroyed.
/it's never been officially confirmed
| 229 |
Peter_Wiggin Sun, May 3, 2009 12:44:44pm |
Found my original conversation:
Wilcox, Rober K. Japan's Secret War. New York: Marlowe & Co., 1995
Pictorial History of the Second World War, vol. 5. New York: Wm. H. Wise & Co., 1970
Parrott, Lindsay. "Five Cyclotrons Wrecked in Japan." New York Times, Novermber 24, 1945. (additional stories on Nov 26, 29 and Dec 5, 6, 14, and 15.)
The book I'm reading has a photo of one of the cyclotrons being disposed of by the US military. Jack Seward's Strange But True Stories from Japan.
| 230 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:46:14pm |
Yes, Japan did have a "nuclear bomb program".
It was WAAAAY th' hell behind ours.
In essence, it was kindergarten.
Japan didn't have the theoreticians needed for a credible atomic program.
| 231 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:47:11pm |
re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat
It's BS.
See his #221.
Most likely, but does get mentioned in wiki, which of course is also suspect.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 232 |
Bob Dillon Sun, May 3, 2009 12:47:36pm |
re: #230 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Yes, Japan did have a "nuclear bomb program".
It was WAAAAY th' hell behind ours.
In essence, it was kindergarten.
Japan didn't have the theoreticians needed for a credible atomic program.
Nor the electrical capacity.
| 233 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:48:57pm |
re: #219 pre-Boomer Marine brat
I'm not familiar with that show. From your context, it sounds lunatic. Correct?
Yes. Quite lunatic. But entertaining if you have the time.
| 234 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:50:52pm |
re: #231 DEZes
Most likely, but does get mentioned in wiki, which of course is also suspect.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
This generally matches what I've heard. Read that Wiki article VERY carefully.
| 235 |
zeir Sun, May 3, 2009 12:51:48pm |
Stewart did apologize. On the other hand, I don't think I would have been roped into calling Truman a war criminal, because I think the only reason I am alive is the A-bomb; my Dad was waiting to ship out for the Japanese invasion. The job of the President is to represent the interests of the American people; Truman did his job.
| 236 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 12:51:57pm |
re: #228 Killian Bundy
The stories are out there. The Japanese supposedly had two separate, parallel programs and conducted the atomic test mentioned and all the records were subsequently destroyed.
/it's never been officially confirmed
The Japanese as well as the Germans weren't known for destroying these kinds of records.
| 237 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 12:52:42pm |
re: #234 pre-Boomer Marine brat
This generally matches what I've heard. Read that Wiki article VERY carefully.
I did, I have no doubt they wanted the bomb, but an actual detonation.
No way.
| 239 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 12:55:03pm |
re: #237 DEZes
I did, I have no doubt they wanted the bomb, but an actual detonation.
No way.
Read the 2nd paragraph in the F-Go Project description. Note the last line.
| 240 |
Killian Bundy Sun, May 3, 2009 12:58:26pm |
re: #236 Soona'
The Japanese as well as the Germans weren't known for destroying these kinds of records.
/we destroyed the records an equipment, supposedly
| 241 |
guftafs Sun, May 3, 2009 12:59:13pm |
re: #230 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Yes, Japan did have a "nuclear bomb program".
It was WAAAAY th' hell behind ours.
In essence, it was kindergarten.
Japan didn't have the theoreticians needed for a credible atomic program.
According to Paul Johnson's Modern Times, if I remember correctly, the Japanese leaders asked the head of their atomic weapons program if the detonation over Hiroshima was in fact an nuclear bomb, and if they could replicate it in six months. In other words, the Japanese were not prepared to surrender even after Hiroshima had been flattened. The second bomb was necessary.
| 242 |
sattv4u2 Sun, May 3, 2009 12:59:38pm |
re: #211 Sharmuta
Bummer- "my" house is already in the process of being sold. Oh, well.
Sorry ,, but now that you've dipped your toe in, go to a bank and talk to them. They have lots of inventory they're willing to talk about
| 243 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 1:00:26pm |
Generalissimo Franco is still dead, Godzilla is an animated movie character, and the Japanese didn't have the infrastructure to separate enough U-235 for a bomb.
/much less, as Bobibutu noted, the electricity to drive it
| 244 |
Peter_Wiggin Sun, May 3, 2009 1:00:49pm |
Well, at least the Fugo Project existed, right?
| 245 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 1:02:08pm |
re: #239 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Read the 2nd paragraph in the F-Go Project description. Note the last line.
"Only the design of the machinery was completed before the Japanese surrender'
Yeah, I caught that too.
Its as far as I care to research it, I wont waste more time on an urban legend.
How are you today if I may ask.
| 246 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 1:02:38pm |
re: #243 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Generalissimo Franco is still dead, Godzilla is an animated movie character, and the Japanese didn't have the infrastructure to separate enough U-235 for a bomb.
/much less, as Bobibutu noted, the electricity to drive it
You're saying that Godzilla........doesn't exist? *(sob)*
| 247 |
Jimmah Sun, May 3, 2009 1:03:00pm |
re: #238 Iron Fist
Bollocks. The knowledge that creationism is nonsense has nothing to do with religion - it comes from science. According to this view you are putting forward, any bit of science that is disputed by religion becomes 'religion' itself and therefore cannot be taught. The teaching of evolution as a whole would fall foul of this as it is quite obviously a massive contradiction of creationism.
And why are you making a false dichotomy between creationism and atheism? The real dichotomy in play here is creationism and science, as you should know by now.
| 248 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 1:03:14pm |
re: #241 guftafs
According to Paul Johnson's Modern Times, if I remember correctly, the Japanese leaders asked the head of their atomic weapons program if the detonation over Hiroshima was in fact an nuclear bomb, and if they could replicate it in six months. In other words, the Japanese were not prepared to surrender even after Hiroshima had been flattened. The second bomb was necessary.
Well, they might have ASKED that.
BTW, there were two major factions in Tokyo at the time of Hiroshima. One saw that Japan was beaten. The other (primarily the Army) wanted to fight.
| 249 |
capitalist piglet Sun, May 3, 2009 1:03:20pm |
re: #23 VioletTiger
Bill hits it right on. Jon Stewart is an idiot who needs to study his history.
My father was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII and I wish he were still alive to beyotch-slap Mr. Stewart. The Japanese had no intention of surrendering. God bless Harry Truman.
Ditto that. My father was a Navy corpsman on Iwo Jima.
Many people tend to juxtapose the image of today's Japanese culture on that of the Japanese culture of WWII, which is a mistake. The entire mindset of their military complex was built on the resistance to surrender.
I'm sure you know these things, but for those who haven't studied the PTO:
The Japanese didn't follow commonly accepted practices of war. They actually targeted medical personnel, reasoning that killing a single corpsman was as good as killing multiple Marines, since there would be no one to treat them. The rank and file were coerced into suicide by grenade, rather than surrender - preferably in the vicinity of as many Americans as possible. It was a different mindset, that of a military culture whose honor was in death, not life.
I think this may be part of what trips up someone like Jon Stewart. That, and his general flower-in-the-barrel-of-a-gun liberal world view.
That's all very nice, until the trigger is squeezed in your face.
| 250 |
Teh Flowah Sun, May 3, 2009 1:03:56pm |
1. Japan didn't get a warning
False
2. The atomic bombs were a military necessity
False
Some of the hosts points are taken way out of context. Yes, the kamikaze pilots were effective when first used, because it was so unexpected. But after Americans figured out the tactics and devised a counter, it was not nearly as effective as a good pilot. The only reason kamikaze was being used was because of the LACK on Japan's part of good pilots, we had killed them all in the war. So they resorted to this desperate method. Ineffective.
Japan was indeed sending feelers out for surrender. Blame it on their culture to make passes at surrender in ways that don't make sense to Westerners, but they were there.
The casualties predicted for US troops for a mainland invasion only make sense if you think it was inevitable that such an invasion take place. The hosts point about conventional firebombings only serves to show why people like Jon Stewart are totally inconsistent in their criticism of the Atomic bombs. The firebombings killed more people, did more damage, than the A-Bombs ever did, and yet the criticism is centered on the A-bombs.
I think the fact that military commanders as high as Eisenhower, WITHOUT HINDSIGHT, saw the Atomic bombs as unnecessary, that Japan was already defeated, says something.
All that said, don't attack the United States unless you want your shit pushed in.
| 251 |
Kosh's Shadow Sun, May 3, 2009 1:04:20pm |
re: #240 Killian Bundy
/we destroyed the records an equipment, supposedly
There was a history channel show on the Japanese bomb project. I didn't get to see all of it, but I'd take it with a lot of grains of salt.
There certainly was a project, and we did destroy at least one cyclotron, but I doubt there was even one detonation, or the war probably wouldn't have ended with only two bombs against Japan.
| 253 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 1:06:16pm |
re: #244 Peter_Wiggin
Well, at least the Fugo Project existed, right?
As I said above ... YES ... they had an atomic program.
It had even managed to begin production of heavy water.
Wow.
| 254 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 1:06:16pm |
re: #244 Peter_Wiggin
Well, at least the Fugo Project existed, right?
It looks like the program was underway, no ones picking on you.
And I dont want you to think that, we are just looking at it with a suspicion.
| 255 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 1:08:03pm |
re: #245 DEZes
"Only the design of the machinery was completed before the Japanese surrender'
Yeah, I caught that too.
Its as far as I care to research it, I wont waste more time on an urban legend.
How are you today if I may ask.
Sorry, let's try that again. Doin' fine, but have to get out of here to get housework done.
| 256 |
Kosh's Shadow Sun, May 3, 2009 1:08:26pm |
re: #250 Teh Flowah
Japan might have been defeated, but they were going to fight on, for a while.
And while some people did want to surrender, they did not have the power, or we would not have needed two bombs; the surrender would have been quickly offered after one. The fact that after several days, they were still arguing, indicates that they needed a stronger message.
| 257 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 1:08:54pm |
re: #254 DEZes
It looks like the program was underway, no ones picking on you.
And I dont want you to think that, we are just looking at it with a suspicion.
I guess perhaps I am "picking on him".
Sorry, Peter.
| 258 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 1:10:53pm |
re: #250 Teh Flowah
The feelers re surrender were even coming from the military, but there was a catch. They didn't want to surrender unconditionally.
| 259 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 1:12:00pm |
re: #257 pre-Boomer Marine brat
I guess perhaps I am "picking on him".
Sorry, Peter.
I do not think you were picking, just nudging toward the light.
| 260 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, May 3, 2009 1:12:31pm |
re: #246 Soona'
You're saying that Godzilla........doesn't exist? *(sob)*
OMG!
SOONA ... HANG TOUGH ... I DIDN'T MEAN TO ...
*abject sorrow*
| 263 |
johnm Sun, May 3, 2009 1:15:19pm |
My uncle flew B-29s out of Tinian. He didn't think much of Tibbets and his boys, because unlike the other B-29 groups, the "special" group didn't routinely fly up to Japan and get shot at. Everybody's attitude changed after the bombs got dropped, and they knew that nobody would have to fly up to Japan anymore.
He also gave me one of the leaflets they carried up on some runs, same as the one Whittle showed at PJTV. FWIW, the bomber crews didn't like leaflet runs, either, figuring a) the Japanese didn't care about the message and b) if you're going to fly all that way to drop something, it might as well explode.
| 264 |
Soona' Sun, May 3, 2009 1:15:20pm |
re: #250 Teh Flowah
All that said, don't attack the United States unless you want your shit pushed in.
Unfortunately, this was the last war we fought with the mission of total, unconditional victory.
| 265 |
DEZes Sun, May 3, 2009 1:17:10pm |
re: #260 pre-Boomer Marine brat
OMG!
SOONA ... HANG TOUGH ... I DIDN'T MEAN TO ...*abject sorrow*
This is for Soona. ;)
| 266 |
Mike McDaniel Sun, May 3, 2009 1:19:00pm |
re: #45 HelloDare
Truman saved hundreds or thousands if not millions of Japanese lives. In the battle of Okinawa alone, an estimated 42,000–150,000 Japanese civilians were killed.
Millions. General LeMay was about to start targeting the Japanese food distribution system. If the war had gone into 1946, millions of Japanese would have starved to death. As it was, it took a massive effort in late 1945 to avert disaster.
| 267 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Sun, May 3, 2009 1:27:56pm |
Gonna put my face on a nuclear bomb
All them commies better get up and run
When I let that sucker fly, all the bad folks gonna die
Gonna put my face on a nuclear bomb
-Mojo Nixon
| 268 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, May 3, 2009 1:28:06pm |
re: #262 Iron Fist
We'll see what the courts do with it, but I suspect you are going to be dissappointed with the results. Teachers aren't free to teach against religion just because they disagree with it. The issue here isn't creationism, it is religious instruction. He'd get the same ruling if he were teaching that the Buddhist doctrine of reincarnation is utter nonsense.
At least it is according to the judge. I think the appellate court will agree, and the Supreme Court won't even be bother with it.
A competent science teacher should and must teach, in geology class, that the earth is way more that 6,000 years old.
| 269 |
stuiec Sun, May 3, 2009 1:33:42pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
Stewart did give a full throated apology for calling Truman a war criminal.
I assume that we Lizards and Bill Whittle will post a retraction, or at least an update now? (I didn't watch the whole video of Whittle's, whom I adore, so if he addressed this already, good for him)
Wow. Jon Stewart knew at the moment the words flew out of his mouth how stupid they were -- yet in his original discussion with Cliff May, he REPEATED those words. He didn't stop himself at the time to backtrack or clarify, he pressed ahead with his "Truman was a war criminal" meme.
Bill Whittle owes Jon Stewart no apology or retraction. Jon Stewart owed the American people an apology and retraction, which he gave. It would be fitting for Jon Stewart to invite Bill Whittle onto The Daily Show to tell Stewart's audience the truth about the American atomic bombings of Japan.
| 270 |
Jimmah Sun, May 3, 2009 1:34:27pm |
re: #262 Iron Fist
Teachers aren't free to teach against religion just because they disagree with it.
Teachers are free to teach the facts even when they are disputed by religions. It is a fact, not an article of any faith, but a fact, that creationism is nonsense.
| 272 |
dwells38 Sun, May 3, 2009 1:40:03pm |
That was weird. Preview didn't work and my post posted 3 periods. Lucky I copied if first. I was trying to respond to #256
Yes and given the knowledge that the Japanese regime was extremely brutal and had little value for human life it probably didn't even seem likely that they would EVER give in.
They brutal too their own, not just the enemy. They were told to yell banzai in battle and then throw yourself into the line of fire rather than back off.
This was not a reasonable enemy. Our leaders had to decide whether or not they'd be court martialed for NOT using the bomb when they had it. Imagine how that would have looked to history had 500,000 or a million more men died in conventional battle because our leaders felt a super weapon they had in their hands was too brutal and unforgiving on the brutal and unforgiving Japanese.
As so many have said it's easy to second guess when you don't have the existential threat staring you in the face and declaring they'll never give in and that's what makes them better than you.
| 273 |
mikalm Sun, May 3, 2009 1:50:24pm |
re: #267 Mad Al-Jaffee
Gonna put my face on a nuclear bomb
All them commies better get up and run
When I let that sucker fly, all the bad folks gonna die
Gonna put my face on a nuclear bomb-Mojo Nixon
Mojo's a bit of a moonbat, but he did write and sing some very funny songs. My favorite is "Debbie Gibson is Pregnant with My Two-Headed Love Child"!
| 274 |
Richie Sun, May 3, 2009 1:54:56pm |
Jon Stewart got brutalized. He needs to turn on the history channel. Most high school students are better acquainted with the facts...
| 275 |
stuiec Sun, May 3, 2009 1:57:40pm |
re: #153 Killgore Trout
High school teacher's anti-Creationism comment violated law
Wow. I can't imagine this will case will hold up after the appeal.
What is the legitimate secular purpose in a history (not science, history) teacher characterizing Creationist belief as "religious, superstitious nonsense"? Isn't that characterization also a characterization of religious belief as superstition?
What is the legitimate secular purpose in permitting the history teacher to make comments hostile to religion or any particular religion? Would we applaud the teacher for saying that the notion of a human being returning from the dead after three days is "religious, superstitious nonsense"? How about him saying that the idea that a man received dictation from an Archangel and then rode a flying horse from Mecca to Jerusalem in one night is "religious, superstitious nonsense"?
How is that the duty of an official of government? How is that even permissible for an official of government, given the protections afforded in the First Amendment to religious belief and the free exercise thereof?
| 276 |
stuiec Sun, May 3, 2009 2:03:52pm |
re: #270 Jimmah
Teachers are free to teach the facts even when they are disputed by religions. It is a fact, not an article of any faith, but a fact, that creationism is nonsense.
NO - it is a fact, not an article of any faith, that the physical evidence of the Earth's origins and age and fossil record is real and scientifically verifiable.
Whether you regard creationism as nonsense is therefore a matter of faith.
Teachers should teach that the physical evidence shows that the Universe is over 13 billion years old, and that the Earth is several billion years old, and that life forms on Earth have evolved over a billion-plus years. Any student that has difficulty reconciling that to the teachings of his faith should be referred to his parents and his clergyman. But it is not the place of a public school teacher to call any religious belief "nonsense."
| 277 |
okiej Sun, May 3, 2009 2:09:16pm |
Truman = last Democrat leader who could be trusted with the command of firearms and explosives.
| 278 |
hazzyday Sun, May 3, 2009 2:13:16pm |
Comedians do news commentary because they can always say " I was just joking" if they screw up.
| 279 |
Summer Seale Sun, May 3, 2009 2:17:18pm |
What is amazing to me is that the left is so big on being nuanced, and understanding different circumstances.
And yet they are the ones who apply blanket statements to actions such as the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. To them, there is no nuance or circumstance to be considered when pointing out the differences in that action and real war crimes. All they care about is the body count.
So, while they may play up their intrinsic ties to nuance and greater philosophical debates of circumstances, they actually never apply these things at all when it doesn't suit them.
| 280 |
Turtler Sun, May 3, 2009 2:25:05pm |
Thank you Charles.
You can be a pain in the butt some times, but you don't give in to the temptations of lowering your moral standards and you find the DAMNDEST things.
And this was a beaut' of a find.
| 282 |
Fat Jolly Penguin Sun, May 3, 2009 2:36:05pm |
Fan-freaking-tastic. I love Bill Whittle.
| 283 |
RexMundi Sun, May 3, 2009 2:44:17pm |
I may like The Daily Show and Jon Stewart, but I take them for what they're worth. When he's wrong, he needs a bitch slap like Whittle just handed him. What bothers me is those that don't take Stewart for what he's worth--and so, when he's wrong, they follow his lead and think that it's the gospel.
| 284 |
RexMundi Sun, May 3, 2009 2:48:18pm |
re: #274 Richie
Jon Stewart got brutalized. He needs to turn on the history channel. Most high school students are better acquainted with the facts...
The History Channel? So he can watch piles of hist about UFO's and aliens, Bigfoot, or Ice Road Truckers? The only two shows I can think of on The History Channel that are worth something aren't even history--The Universe, and Evolve.
| 286 |
RexMundi Sun, May 3, 2009 2:57:40pm |
re: #222 Iron Fist
Establishment of atheism as the officialState Religion is still the establishment of a State religion.
How can the absence of religion be considered religion?
| 287 |
TedStriker Sun, May 3, 2009 3:00:24pm |
| 288 |
spudman Sun, May 3, 2009 3:20:01pm |
re: #52 VioletTiger
The Smithsonian Air and Space museum used to have an exhibit on the Enola Gay. I found it facinating.
They still do, the entire aircraft is at the Udvar-Hazy center near Dulles International Airport. They have it screened by plexiglass so the moral midgets don't splash it with red paint.
My father was one week short of being cycled from Europe to the Pacific when the bomb was dropped.
| 289 |
Captain Cool Sun, May 3, 2009 3:24:06pm |
Lots of interesting info. I never heard about leaflets being dropped to warn the Japanese about the atomic bomb. I also didn't realize the emperor of Japan refused to surrender even after Hiroshima was bombed. Good for Bill Whittle for making these things known.
| 290 |
Jimmah Sun, May 3, 2009 4:48:43pm |
re: #276 stuiec
"the physical evidence shows that the Universe is over 13 billion years old, and that the Earth is several billion years old, and that life forms on Earth have evolved over a billion-plus years."
If that is a fact then it's also a fact that creationism is nonsense. You can't expect teachers to pretend otherwise, and clam up, referring kids to their priest if the issue comes up in class. What if the priest/parents are creationists too?
| 291 |
kynna Sun, May 3, 2009 4:50:30pm |
Watching Jon Stewart become nothing more than a democrat hack has been incredibly sad. There was a time when he was one of the best interviewers of celebrities on television. He had a "fake news" show and he talked to people who made movies and music and TV shows. Those were the days. And then suddenly he got important and bought the Comedy Central marketing department's hype.
I saw this video yesterday when Glenn Reynolds posted it and got everyone I know to watch it. Bill Whittle is very, very good.
| 292 |
Jimash Sun, May 3, 2009 4:55:31pm |
Wow. Good job Bill Whittle.
F**K Jon Stewart.
My Dad DID the Guadlacanal IWo Jima Okinawa tour, ( Leyte, Corregidor and Bataan too) so I completely and without reservation, endorse the views Mr. Whittle espouses.
| 293 |
Jimash Sun, May 3, 2009 4:57:08pm |
Oh and My Mom always told me there was a warning.
She worked on the "Heavy Water Project".
| 294 |
Teh Flowah Sun, May 3, 2009 5:25:29pm |
re: #258 pre-Boomer Marine brat
The feelers re surrender were even coming from the military, but there was a catch. They didn't want to surrender unconditionally.
:/
They just wanted their figurehead of the emperor to remain the figurehead. If you want to talk about a quick end to the war with minimal bloodshed, that was it. We let them keep their emperor, we still win, they still have to submit to the important parts of our demands.
There's nothing wrong with saying the Atomic bombs were about sending a message. You just have to stand up for the truth and your convictions, not make up history about Atomic Bombs being a necessity. Military and political officials knew it then, they know it now. The Atomic bombs were not necessary for a quick end to the war.
Just ask noted pacifist and communist sympathizer Douglass MacArthur.
| 295 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, May 3, 2009 5:31:15pm |
I am one of the millions of Americans alive because my grandfather, also scheduled to be in the first wave of invasion, never had to land on the beaches of Japan.
Thank you, Mr. Truman.
| 296 |
Jimash Sun, May 3, 2009 5:31:24pm |
re: #294 Teh Flowah
No. It was more than that. They didn't want the occupation and restructuring .
We insisted.
| 299 |
odorlesspaintthinner Sun, May 3, 2009 6:22:24pm |
Drop an atom bomb in the ocean. Wow. As a "warning" to the Japanese, 5 months after Iwo Jima, 2 months after Okinawa. Wow. The general who made that suggestion was cleaning toilets the next day.
| 300 |
Occasional Reader Sun, May 3, 2009 7:10:56pm |
Late to this thread, but: WOW. What an astonishingly thorough video fisking.
Kudos to Bill Whittle. Shame on you, Jon Stewart. Get an education, you pompous jerk.
| 301 |
Kulhwch Sun, May 3, 2009 7:33:28pm |
This was just the best video. The leftards in my life need to see this.
}:) [I may have to put them in a headlock 1st, though.]
| 302 |
dak Sun, May 3, 2009 7:36:24pm |
Excellent factual description. The best book about this whoel affair:
"War's End" by MGen Sweeney.
Back then he was maj Sweeney, he dropped the bomb on Nagasaki. And flew the mission on Hiroshima in one of the instrument planes.
He wrote the book about 10 years ago, because he was worried about revisionist history.
| 303 |
dak Sun, May 3, 2009 7:42:41pm |
Also, not just american and japanese lives were saved. There were other British, Canadian, Australian (etc) soldiers that were going to head over there for the invasion.
Dad was one of them.
The japanese also had about 2-3 million soldiers spread all over the pacific and China that would have to be killed, in addition to Japan.
The atom bomb was the right decision.
I like the argument he made against a demo. Yes, the demo aircraft could have been shot down.
But they dropped 2 bombs on cities and Japan still did not surrender. I knew that, because I have read a lot about it, but I am glad someone made the argument.
| 305 |
dak Sun, May 3, 2009 7:53:34pm |
Somebody should give Jon Steward - or anybody questioning the decision to use the atomic bombs- a book about Okinawa.
I've read a lot of books about wars. But Okinawa tops them all in sheer butchery and horror.
Apparently, this is what convinced Truman also.
| 306 |
6pat6 Sun, May 3, 2009 8:10:34pm |
Jon Stewart, and that little asshole Colbert he spawned off, don't deserve the attention. Problem is, far too many people actually think they are getting real news from these dickweeds!
| 307 |
Joan Not of Arc Sun, May 3, 2009 8:24:33pm |
Perhaps Jon Stewart should visit Nagasaki, in particular Urakami Cathedral, Nyokodo and the Twenty-Six Martyrs' Shrine, all of which are a testament to the tyranny of a state that would ban belief in God and drag people into a war they could not in. Mr. Stewart would see the beauty of a city now at peace. Maybe he could actually open a book and read how the Japanese were brutal back then, even to their own people. I have been to Japan. Very few Japanese people want to own up to their role during the Second World War. Indeed, the council of bishops in Osaka declared that without full confession, there could never be full reconciliation with the people who were gravely harmed during that era. Jon Stewart also shows a very flawed misunderstanding of history and the military options at the time.
That's me being nice.
| 308 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Sun, May 3, 2009 8:46:36pm |
What everybody knows: The Enola Gay dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.
What very few seem to know: Bock's Car dropped the bomb on Nagasaki.
I didn't read all of the posts on this thread (only about half of 'em) and I apologize if somebody else has already stated this.
| 309 |
stuiec Sun, May 3, 2009 8:47:11pm |
re: #290 Jimmah
"the physical evidence shows that the Universe is over 13 billion years old, and that the Earth is several billion years old, and that life forms on Earth have evolved over a billion-plus years."
If that is a fact then it's also a fact that creationism is nonsense. You can't expect teachers to pretend otherwise, and clam up, referring kids to their priest if the issue comes up in class. What if the priest/parents are creationists too?
No, sir. If that's a fact then to believe in creationism you have to believe in something that can create physical reality in whatever form that something chooses. That's a pretty handy description of an omnipotent God. The teacher, as an agent of government and subject to First Amendment restrictions on interference with religion, has no right to call a student's belief in an omnipotent God nonsense.
So what if the priest/parents are creationists too? Are you advocating that parents be prohibited from giving their children religious instruction, or from allowing them to choose religious institutions to instruct their children in the precepts of their faith?
If you want a religion-free America, change the Constitution.
If you just want the power to choose which religions are acceptable to the State, go to the Netherlands and team up with Geert Wilders.
| 310 |
Ledger1 Sun, May 3, 2009 9:19:08pm |
re: #11 jaunte
Good point jaunte. Gen. LeMay gave advanced warnings’ of the bombings and the Japanese just shrugged them off.
As Whittle points out the Japanese did immediately stop fighting. As I recall they continued to fight on after the two bombs were dropped. There is some evidence that the certain fanatical Japanese fought on with aircraft after the surrender agreement. The Allies then burned all of the remaining aircraft where they were parked.
| 311 |
meeshlr Sun, May 3, 2009 10:49:55pm |
re: #17 SasquatchOnSteroids
You know The Daily Show is fake, right ?
Seems real to me.
It's on COMEDYEFFIN'CENTRAL !
Yeah, there used to be girls jumping on trampolines. Whatever happened to them?
ARRRRGGGGG.
Here in Canada, the Daily Show comes on right after the local late night news and it's followed by The Colbert Show.
That probably confuses a lot of people who don't realize that it's comedy.
| 312 |
meeshlr Sun, May 3, 2009 10:54:51pm |
re: #159 eric castillo
I heard the apology and it was rather weak. Like if you accidentally called someone by the wrong name. "Oops. That was wrong. Sorry."
| 313 |
MissLL Sun, May 3, 2009 11:09:57pm |
What is little known is that, towards the end of the war the Japanese were working on chemical weapons filled with the bubonic plague, etc. that was aimed at the west coast of America. Right up until the end of the war, they were testing rockets to transport stuff.
| 314 |
RexMundi Mon, May 4, 2009 1:53:41am |
re: #297 Iron Fist
Easy. Atheism can be established as explicitly as legislation making it so, down to favorable treatment of atheism vis a vis other faiths.
Atheism is the lack of faith and belief in God. It is not a faith in and of itself. You could refer to it as a creed, a belief system, a philosophy--but it is a creed, belief system, and philosophy that does not believe in God by definition. It is not a religion and cannot be a religion. Period. End of story. Simply because people can 'establish' it as a favorable or unfavorable position does not change the status of atheism being the lack of faith in God, and therefore, it is not and cannot be a religion. Atheism is a default position upon birth--if someone chooses religion, then they can choose whichever one they wish (within the constraints of ethical/legal considerations of course.)
Belief in the absence of God is still a belief about God, and teaching the abcense [sic] of faith as fact is still teaching a religious belief. The USSR was officially atheist, for example as is, I believe the PRC.
You have that phrased incorrectly. Atheism is not the belief in the absence of God. It is the lack of belief in God. You are reificating nothing into something--and the crucial difference is being used by you in a manner that shows wishful thinking or confusion on your part.
It would be odd indeed if the amendment that guarantees the right to free exercise of religion and forbidding the establishment of a State religion that has faith in the existance of God also allowed for the establishment of a State religion so long as it is hostile to faith.
See above. It's odd indeed, because you completely misinterpret it, because as I said, you are reificating a non-existent--a zero--a void.
And there is no question that the current case we are debating is one of hostility to religion (specifically Christianity; I don't see anything in the referenced article to indicate that he was equally hostile to, say, Islam) by a teacher in public school in his capacity as a teacher. I would absolutely be shocked if the appellate court overturned this decision. It is difficult to see how the judge could have ruled differently under existing case precedent.
I am completely shocked whenever any court decision endorses the side of atheism, but that doesn't mean that the verdicts that endorse religion are right.
| 315 |
fiveonefive Mon, May 4, 2009 2:35:13am |
Not to be super picky but at 9:00 Bill Whittle says some incorrect facts.
1. There were over 900,000 thousand Japanese troops in Kyushu to defend it by August 1945. Not 43,000.
2. The Army at Hiroshima was to defend southern Honshu, which is a different island. Not exactly sure why he brings up the Army based around Hiroshima in the context of Operation Olympic. Let alone acting as the 'core' of the defense of Kyushu. Which is just plain wrong. Hiroshima isn't anywhere near southern Kyushu and had nothing to do with its defense. Unlike Nagasaki....
| 316 |
Old Engineer Mon, May 4, 2009 3:17:39am |
When the first A-bomb was dropped on Japan I had just finished Infantry Basic Training, and our company was waiting for its posting to the Japanese Isles. After Japan surrendered we were all reassigned to non-combat duty. I have always thought Harry Truman saved my life. I expect about a million other combat-arm troops think the same. Sure, a lot of innocents were incinerated. I don't know that there was even one of them I would trade for my life. And I have a wife, three daughters, one son, and eight grandchildren who answer the same way. Those who now state we should not have dropped the "Bombs" may be morally right, but they are mistaken when they choose for me. It's a case of being "Dead Right" and "Dead Wrong" all at once.
Old Engineer
| 317 |
FabioC. Mon, May 4, 2009 3:46:10am |
There also were other populations still suffering under the Japanese rule. China is the most known example, but the Japanese occupation of Indonesia was no fun either.
Debating whether the use of nuclear weapons on Japan was a war crime or not is nto even an academic exercise; it's the waste of time that only affluent and safe, above all, people can afford.
| 318 |
bolivar Mon, May 4, 2009 4:39:48am |
re: #89 VioletTiger
Another video at the link above with Bill Whittle-"The Cost of Media Bias" is also worth watching.
ALL of Bill Whittles videos and essays are worth the time. He has a way with words that I can only dream of. He puts my thoughts into ways people can understand and see. He speaks for me in so many ways. I love this man and he is a true American!
| 319 |
Fat Jolly Penguin Mon, May 4, 2009 9:46:04am |
[UPDATE]
Well, Jon Stewart apologized for calling Truman “a War Criminal,” and good for him. Everyone says things they regret, but not everyone is big enough to step up and admit they were wrong. And the following is meant in no way to diminish his apology, but the fact is, after he called Truman a War Criminal, he explained in some detail why he thought the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a criminal act. I saw nothing in the apology that led me to believe he changed his mind about the atomic attacks, and to be honest, if you honestly do believe that they were in fact criminal acts, its hard to see how you could not consider Truman a war criminal. But as someone who has had words put in his mouth, I certainly do not wish to do that to Mr. Stewart. I can’t undo the references to what he said, just as he can’t unsay what he did in fact say, but I am glad that he apologized to Truman if nothing else and I certainly think more highly of him for it.
With all of that said, hundreds of millions do in fact consider the bombings a criminal act, and to that degree the video is as timely and necessary as ever.
Sometime this week, I hope, I will provide the text of the video. There are a great many visual elements in the piece, and I hope to include as many of those as I can in the body of the text. But I really do feel that the video format is powerful under certain circumstances, and more of this kind of thing is coming. If you’d like to support this work in the future, my insect overlords would be thrilled — simply thrilled — if those of you that liked the piece would go to PJTV and simply register. It’s fast, it’s free, and your email address will not be used for any other purpose that notifying you of our content, including continuing commentaries such as this one. We’re capitalists here. These things cost money, and if people simply register because of them they will take that as a good sign and give me the means to keep them coming.
Thanks for the support, and good for you, Jon Stewart.
| 320 |
Dekar Mon, May 4, 2009 12:34:59pm |
.ecnetnes siht sa sdrawkcab sa si gnikniht s'trawetS noJ
| 321 |
the1sgjohns Mon, May 4, 2009 3:26:12pm |
Outstanding. I am amazed at how THE FREAKIN TRUTH doesn't stop some peoples brainless wit. I am no rocket scientist but I am here today because my grandfathers did not have to fight the Japanese hand to hand to force their capitulation. My hats off to PJTV.
| 322 |
stuiec Mon, May 4, 2009 3:39:13pm |
re: #314 RexMundi
You have that phrased incorrectly. Atheism is not the belief in the absence of God. It is the lack of belief in God. You are reificating nothing into something--and the crucial difference is being used by you in a manner that shows wishful thinking or confusion on your part.
You've confused agnosticism - lack of belief, "absence of knowledge" - with atheism - "lack of God," the positive belief that there is no God. The First Amendment obliges our government to be pseudo-agnostic (that is, it allows for the government to assert that there is a God, but not to dictate what form of worship its citizens owe to that God) but prohibits it from being atheistic.
| 323 |
Jimmah Mon, May 4, 2009 7:02:27pm |
re: #309 stuiec
You avoided my point that teaching evolution IS denying creationism. The two are not compatible. In a situation where we have 'if X then not Y', the statement' X is the case' automatically yields 'Y is not the case'. There is no need to alter the constitution, because the establishment clause simply does not imply that public servants may not make statements of fact where those statements contradict religious beliefs. It does not oblige anyone to pretend a fact is not a fact out of fear of offending someone.
| 324 |
stuiec Tue, May 5, 2009 1:33:38am |
re: #323 Jimmah
You avoided my point that teaching evolution IS denying creationism. The two are not compatible. In a situation where we have 'if X then not Y', the statement' X is the case' automatically yields 'Y is not the case'. There is no need to alter the constitution, because the establishment clause simply does not imply that public servants may not make statements of fact where those statements contradict religious beliefs. It does not oblige anyone to pretend a fact is not a fact out of fear of offending someone.
And you missed my point that one can have faith in the power of an omnipotent God to create the Universe as He chose -- complete with physical evidence of the Universe being old at its first moment of existence, complete with a fossil record with evidence of long-extinct species that never actually lived.
A public school science teacher has the duty to describe to his students the observable facts of physical reality and the best available explanations science has to offer for how reality came into being. The teacher has no right -- is prohibited from -- declaring that these facts disprove the existence of God or any particular religion's alternative explanation of how God brought reality into being.
Unless you think it's the proper role of an agent of the State to determine which religious conceptions of cosmology are acceptable to the Government and which ones are disallowed in the official religious regulations. If you do, I suggest you find a country to live in that doesn't have a First Amendment-style Establishment clause.
| 325 |
Lopakhin Tue, May 5, 2009 8:11:27am |
re: #324 stuiec
And you missed my point that one can have faith in the power of an omnipotent God to create the Universe as He chose -- complete with physical evidence of the Universe being old at its first moment of existence, complete with a fossil record with evidence of long-extinct species that never actually lived.
Erm ... you're saying that God wants to fool us? Why would He go playing tricks like that?
| 326 |
stuiec Tue, May 5, 2009 10:19:47am |
re: #325 Lopakhin
Erm ... you're saying that God wants to fool us? Why would He go playing tricks like that?
Please remember I am speaking as a Jew who believes in religious tolerance.
Why did God go playing tricks on his beloved Job? That was a man who was upright and faithful to the Lord, and God got sucked into Satan's challenge to test Job's faith.
If it is permissible to believe in a God who did that, why is it not then permissible to believe in a God who would engineer a universe that was in itself a constant test of faith?
After all, we are talking about a God who many believe decided to become incarnate in the form of a human being in order to find out what it was like to be born, to live and to die. A high school biology teacher would tell you that it's not physically possible for a human corpse, three days dead, to spontaneously reanimate. Should he then state to his students that the Resurrection is superstitious, religious nonsense?
| 327 |
Jimmah Tue, May 5, 2009 5:39:35pm |
re: #324 stuiec
And you missed my point that one can have faith in the power of an omnipotent God to create the Universe as He chose -- complete with physical evidence of the Universe being old at its first moment of existence, complete with a fossil record with evidence of long-extinct species that never actually lived.
That is a possible version of creationism, though one I have never seen espoused by an actual creationist. But such a creationist would actually agree with the teacher when he is addressing the issue of the sort of creationism(the more usual sort) that isn't conceptualized in that particular way. Creationists that one meets in real life DO flatly contradict known scientific facts and there's no way to avoid contradicting their beliefs while teaching evolution. Again, the establishment clause is not there to tell public servants to not discuss facts in front of the believers.
| 328 |
stuiec Tue, May 5, 2009 6:37:13pm |
re: #327 Jimmah
That is a possible version of creationism, though one I have never seen espoused by an actual creationist. But such a creationist would actually agree with the teacher when he is addressing the issue of the sort of creationism(the more usual sort) that isn't conceptualized in that particular way. Creationists that one meets in real life DO flatly contradict known scientific facts and there's no way to avoid contradicting their beliefs while teaching evolution. Again, the establishment clause is not there to tell public servants to not discuss facts in front of the believers.
First, I HAVE had that version of creationism espoused to me, by a Chabadnik. He's welcome to his belief; I'm welcome not to accept it.
Second, I've never said that the teacher is not supposed to teach scientific fact. It's his duty to teach scientific fact (if he's the science teacher, most especially.)
But if one of his pupils says, "Excuse me, but I don't believe you. My parents and my pastor teach me otherwise," the teacher's responsibility is to say, "Then take it up with your parents and pastor. In this classroom, I teach what is observable, scientifically verifiable fact. What you're bringing up is a matter of your personal faith and you need to discuss that with people outside a public school classroom."
He is PROHIBITED from saying, "Then your parents and pastor are wrong and what they are teaching you is superstitious, religious nonsense." Because saying that implies that the State officially disapproves of that pupil's religion. And making that implication is prohibited by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
| 329 |
Lopakhin Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:26am |
re: #328 stuiec
the teacher's responsibility is to say, "Then take it up with your parents and pastor. In this classroom, I teach what is observable, scientifically verifiable fact. What you're bringing up is a matter of your personal faith and you need to discuss that with people outside a public school classroom."
He is PROHIBITED from saying, "Then your parents and pastor are wrong and what they are teaching you is superstitious, religious nonsense." Because saying that implies that the State officially disapproves of that pupil's religion. And making that implication is prohibited by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
I'm not American, so I'm not really au fait with the Constitutional situation. But it seems to me you're mainly concerned about language here. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be perfectly happy with the teacher just saying the first thing. I wouldn't particularly want teachers going around insulting the beliefs that pupils have had inculcated in them. (Though I hope you would apply the same standard if the pupil was a Scientologist, believing that humans were brought to Earth on spacecrafts, or a member of the Nation of Islam who believed that white people were created by an evil scientist).
By the way, you could have responded to your Chabadnik friend by pointing out to him that by the same logic, God could have created the entire universe 10 minutes ago, and just implanted in us all our memories of having lived previously to that. Impossible to disprove, n'est-ce pas?
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