Joe the Plumber Speaks Out Against ‘Queers’

Politics • Views: 6,646

Joe the Plumber weighs in on the pressing issue of “queers:”

In the last month, same-sex marriage has become legal in Iowa and Vermont. What do you think about same-sex marriage at a state level?

At a state level, it’s up to them. I don’t want it to be a federal thing. I personally still think it’s wrong. People don’t understand the dictionary—it’s called queer. Queer means strange and unusual. It’s not like a slur, like you would call a white person a honky or something like that. You know, God is pretty explicit in what we’re supposed to do—what man and woman are for. Now, at the same time, we’re supposed to love everybody and accept people, and preach against the sins. I’ve had some friends that are actually homosexual. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn’t have them anywhere near my children. But at the same time, they’re people, and they’re going to do their thing.

I could stop with that one, but there’s more. On the issue of the Constitution’s First Amendment Establishment Clause:

Why does conservatism appeal to you as a Christian?

Conservatism is about the basic rights of individuals. God created us. As far as the government goes, the Founding Fathers based the Constitution off of Christian values. It goes hand-in-hand.

And on “America’s religion:”

Does the Republican Party reach out to evangelicals enough?

No. None of them stand up for anything. They use God as a punch line. They use God to invoke sympathy or invoke righteousness, but they don’t stay the course. That’s why I think that all needs to be taken out of the federal level and give it back to the states. We’ve lost our American history. Every state has “In God we trust” or “With God’s help” in their constitution. God is recognized as, if you will, America’s religion.

Good. Grief.

UPDATE at 5/4/09 8:02:03 pm:

Alan Colmes says:

Who on the right, in addition to Meghan McCain, will stand up and say this guy doesn’t speak for them?

Well, although I’m not really “on the right,” I will. He doesn’t speak for me.

But neither do you, Alan.

Jump to bottom

1206 comments
1 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:05:31pm

he's dirt...pretty simple

2 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:06:26pm

The "big tent" is being taken down as we watch.

3 HelloDare  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:06:50pm

I wouldn't let that guy snake out my toilet.

4 WindHorse  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:06:58pm

wow... friends who are actually homosexual.... imagine.

5 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:07:09pm
Conservatism is about the basic rights of individuals. God created us. As far as the government goes, the Founding Fathers based the Constitution off of Christian values. It goes hand-in-hand.

The Constitution was based off Enlightenment principles, and Greco-Roman traditions. Democracies and Republics pre-date the Christian faith.

6 pingjockey  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:07:09pm

I am not impressed. Appalled would be better.

7 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:07:47pm

Charles, why do you hate plumbers?
////

'Splodey interweb heads in 5...4...3...

8 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:07:50pm
God is recognized as, if you will, America’s religion.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

9 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:07:58pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Constitution was based off Enlightenment principles, and Greco-Roman traditions. Democracies and Republics pre-date the Christian faith.

On a roll, tonight, Sharm. Bartender, pour me a double of what the blue lady there's having.

10 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:08:10pm

"none of then stand up for anything"
seclusion then stardom...Joes's goin down...he had his 15m

11 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:08:27pm

re: #2 Walter L. Newton

The "big tent" is being taken down as we watch.

Somewhere , a tent is missing it's clown

12 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:08:41pm

He sprung a leak!

13 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:08:52pm

The stalker blogs will now start shrieking that I'm "throwing Joe the Plumber under the bus."

When you live inside their heads as I do, you can't help overhearing what they're thinking.

14 HelloDare  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:08:58pm

And to think this brilliant guy stumped Barack Obama.

15 WindHorse  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:09:13pm

Joe-joe goin' down....

16 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:09:14pm

I am NOT Joe the Plumber.

17 bushleague  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:09:20pm

Is he still on PJTV? or had they figured out he was drifting into water over his head a while ago. He seemed pretty reasonable during the election but this stuff will be front page on HuffPo and the other sink holes of moonbattery. Nice knowing you Joe.

18 Racer X  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:09:33pm

The GOP just keeps on digging.

Democrats will be in power for another 16 years at this rate.

19 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:09:35pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Constitution was based off Enlightenment principles, and Greco-Roman traditions. Democracies and Republics pre-date the Christian faith.

John Adams was a big fan of Cicero and other old, dead, white guys, from what I recall. I learned that when I read John Adams a few years back. Our founders were amazingly educated men...as was Theodore Roosevelt.

It's quite humbling, actually.

20 SlartyBartfast  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:09:39pm

Bless his non-PC heart, Joe ain't got much future as a speechwriter, does he...

"God doesn't call the qualified...he qualifies the called."

21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:09:50pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

Shhhh.... we're not supposed to remind people of that, makes 'em cranky.
/

22 wiffersnapper  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:10:08pm

Honestly I thought Joe was a respectable guy. Not so much anymore...

23 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:10:34pm

Joe is a dope, no doubt. Question is, why is anything he says news?

24 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:10:41pm

re: #17 bushleague

Is he still on PJTV?

I don't know. I have no connection to PJ at this point.

25 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:10:46pm

Joe the plumber is one of the best things to happen to Democrats in years.

26 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:10:59pm

I was somewhat approving, until that last line. God is not recognized as America's religion and anyone who says that either does not understand the First Amendment or wants to destroy it.

27 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:11:12pm

re: #13 Charles

The stalker blogs will now start shrieking that I'm "throwing Joe the Plumber under the bus."

When you live inside their heads as I do, you can't help overhearing what they're thinking.

dribble bread crumbs, so you can find your way out

28 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:11:30pm

Joe's ability to speak has exceeded his ability to think.

29 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:11:34pm

He's an honest to goodness neanderthal. Sounds like he just learned to walk upright a few days ago, still fascinated by shiny objects. Yep, Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin. I've heard that as a ticket. Can't wait to see that.

The GOP is running to the far right. They are jumping back on the bandwagon of social issues that they can't win with. Hell, they have no other positions to talk about. Do you hear anything coming out of the Republicans in DC about this Obama policy or that Obama policy?

Nope.

All's silent on the Eastern front. Are there any Republicans in Washington this year? I hear more policy from talk show hosts than I do conservative politicians.

If they are working on regrouping, they better hurry up.

30 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:11:43pm

I have to say, that guy never really cut it for me as a populist hero.

31 Racer X  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:11:50pm
and they know that I wouldn’t have them anywhere near my children.

How ignorant can you get?

32 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:12:42pm

re: #17 bushleague

His last entry is Mar 9.

33 HelloDare  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:04pm

I think Joe may have stood up and hit his head on the sink one time too many.

34 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:04pm

Joe has just reached what is called "minute sixteen".

35 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:13pm

Since it seems to need repeating- many of the Founders were Deists.

36 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:14pm

re: #30 Last Mohican

I have to say, that guy never really cut it for me as a populist hero.

I'm takin down my Joe posters....snif

37 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:16pm

re: #31 Racer X

How ignorant can you get?

Didn't you know, it's contagious. He doesn't want his kids catching teh ghey.
///////////////

38 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:18pm

Being in the trenches as a mother of two middle schoolers, I have to say I'm much more concerned by our culture's wholesale embrace of pornography than by homosexuals. My kids easily and readily say "YUCK" when they see stuff like far-out "gay rights" parades, etc. Heterosexual pornography has had a much worse effect on their age group, and I do worry about how it will put pressure especially on my daughter as she starts dating.

Go ahead, call me a prude, but I'm just reporting what I see pretty much every day in their peer groups--and my kids are "good kids" and pretty sheltered.

39 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:46pm

just like I said when this guy went to Israel to report on a conflict he will never understand: this guy's 15 minutes were up a long time ago. what a joke.

40 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:53pm

re: #34 Bloodnok

Joe has just reached what is called "minute sixteen".

critical mass....meltdown

41 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:13:57pm

re: #31 Racer X

How ignorant can you get?

That's what really got to me too.

42 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:14:03pm

Aren't his 15 minutes up yet?

43 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:14:08pm

re: #35 Sharmuta

Since it seems to need repeating- many of the Founders were Deists.

Heh. That should flush out some of the new sockpuppets! :)

44 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:14:12pm

I question the timing!

Seroiously- God is America's religion?
Which one: Shiva, Vishnu, Allah, the Great Spirit, Jehovah, I Am Who I Will Be?

45 nyc redneck  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:14:34pm

i hope he didn't quit his day job.

46 HelloDare  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:15:01pm

Watch MSNBC hire him as a stooge conservative on some show.

47 ryannon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:15:26pm

There goes the neighborhood...

48 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:15:31pm

re: #13 Charles

When you live inside their heads as I do, you can't help overhearing what they're thinking.

Charles, like we said yesterday, you have to find a bigger apartment.

49 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:15:37pm

re: #38 funky chicken

As a lover of Revolutionary Era history- I'm disturbed by this revisionism concerning our Founders and their intent. They most certainly intended for the American people to continue being people of faith- but freedom of conscience was of the highest importance to them- that the people would worship in the manner they felt was best for them- not dictating to the people what faith they ought to be. This revisionism makes me ill.

50 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:15:40pm
Youtube Video
51 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:15:42pm

re: #42 The Sanity Inspector

Aren't his 15 minutes up yet?

Joe the Plumber just became Joe the Bummer....he couldn't hit a curveball anyway

52 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:15:52pm

re: #35 Sharmuta

Since it seems to need repeating- many of the Founders were Deists.

John Adams was not, he was a devout Christian. But you can't read his letters and his voluminous writings on the founding of our nation and believe that he saw the Bible as the primary source for our philosophy of government.

John Adams is an excellent book.

53 KingKenrod  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:16:13pm

Lots of disgust on this blog for a guy who just asked Obama a simple question then got used as a prop for a couple of months. He's obviously not the sharpest guy out there. He doesn't deserves a collective groin kick like this no matter what he thinks.

54 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:16:14pm

re: #46 HelloDare

Watch MSNBC hire him as a stooge conservative on some show.

MSNBC? Judge Napolitano is lining him up as a guest as we speak (The "great" Joe the Plumber). /

55 PaxAmericana  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:16:22pm

Another false idol. Republicans need a hero, or a star, or straight man, anything for Christ's sake!

56 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:16:31pm

re: #39 spacejesus

just like I said when this guy went to Israel to report on a conflict he will never understand: this guy's 15 minutes were up a long time ago. what a joke.

Can't resist a dig at Israel, can you? Thanks, though, for recognizing a grade-A, steam-distilled moron.
And, as another poster pointed out, this dufus stumped Obama.

57 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:16:42pm

AAAIIIIYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

58 YankeeBaseball  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:16:42pm

Cant wait for Joe's refreshing opinions to be splattered all over libnut world.

59 VioletTiger  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:17:17pm

re: #34 Bloodnok

Joe has just reached what is called "minute sixteen".

You're right about that. He won't let his homosexual friends near his kids?....that was harsh. Disappointed in Joe.

60 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:17:22pm

re: #55 PaxAmericana

Another false idol. Republicans need a hero, or a star, or straight man, anything for Christ's sake!

We had Rudy Giuliani and the socons beat him to death with their Bibles.

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:17:31pm

re: #38 funky chicken

Study: Children Exposed To Pornography May Expect Sex To Be Enjoyable

[NSFW link to The Onion]

62 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:17:32pm

re: #52 funky chicken

Both the Adams- John and Samuel were more traditional than many of the others. I've read a lot on John and Abigail, what an amazing couple. But I've not read anything that supports the notion that John didn't support freedom of conscience.

63 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:17:57pm

re: #39 spacejesus

I thought your 15 minutes were up a long time ago. Another crappy-assed remark about Israel from you, huh, Jerk.

64 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:18:09pm

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

I honestly don't think Sarah Palin deserved that slam.

65 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:18:10pm

re: #55 PaxAmericana

Another false idol. Republicans need a hero, or a star, or straight man, anything for Christ's sake!

No- I think we need to get back to our ideological origins, but that's just me.

66 kansas  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:18:12pm

The lesson to be learned here is that plumbers should stick to plumbing. Much as actors and comedians should stick with that. Well, comedians who are funny that is.

67 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:18:25pm

Joe has a buss waiting for him

68 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:18:31pm

Joe the Plumber doesn't officially speak for the Republican party or the far-right, whatever that is these days.

Unfortunately the MSM will use comments like this to convince people that his views are the consensus of the far-right and/or Republicans.

Joe needs to learn to keep his trap shut when asked questions that are above his pay grade.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:18:55pm

re: #58 YankeeBaseball

Cant wait for Joe's refreshing opinions to be splattered all over libnut world.

They're lining up at his door as we speak, but only out of a sense of fairness and balance obviously.

70 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:18:55pm

re: #58 YankeeBaseball

Cant wait for Joe's refreshing opinions to be splattered all over libnut world.

Yep, they'll make hay with this one.

71 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:19:22pm

re: #61 Slumbering Behemoth

Study: Children Exposed To Pornography May Expect Sex To Be Enjoyable

[NSFW link to The Onion]

Sorry, but not funny.

72 captain joe  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:19:46pm

[Ed. note: this account has been blocked.]

You are all a gaggle of pervs. Joe was just being true to himself. Calling a spade a spade. He's just saying what he believes. He doesn't expect the queer vote, only the homophobic vote. There's no sin to being homophobic. I fear and hate homos because they are alien and don't act normally. I don't want them near my children or loved ones. That's why good Catholics have left the church in recent years. The gay priests are alien to real men.

73 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:19:54pm

re: #56 Guanxi88

Can't resist a dig at Israel, can you? Thanks, though, for recognizing a grade-A, steam-distilled moron.
And, as another poster pointed out, this dufus stumped Obama.

I support Israel, I don't support Joe the Plumber as I think he's a simpleton and a tool.

He didn't "stump" Obama, the cameras were rolling and Obama had to act the politician. Pretty sure any liberal with a half a brain would eat Joe for breakfast on political science topics.

74 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:19:55pm

re: #68 sleepyone

Joe the Plumber doesn't officially speak for the Republican party or the far-right, whatever that is these days.

Unfortunately the MSM will use comments like this to convince people that his views are the consensus of the far-right and/or Republicans.

Joe needs to learn to keep his trap shut when asked questions that are above his pay grade.

bullshit...he's an American and can say whatever the hell he wants

75 HelloDare  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:19:55pm

re: #54 Bloodnok

MSNBC? Judge Napolitano is lining him up as a guest as we speak (The "great" Joe the Plumber). /

A Cage Match between Joe the Plumber and Joy Behar might be interesting.

76 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:01pm

re: #67 albusteve

Joe has a buss waiting for him

Hey, I had an answer for you:

77 OldLineTexan  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:07pm

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

We had Rudy Giuliani and the socons beat him to death with their Bibles.

Rudy sat and waited until Florida and basically screwed himself.

Good grief.

78 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:14pm

That's it. I'm seriously considering going back to the cave.

79 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:22pm

re: #64 funky chicken

I honestly don't think Sarah Palin deserved that slam.

They were linked together as possible running mates a number of times, which of course, is not very possible, but it show you how a lot of the people in the GOP think.

Many conservatives see these people (like Joe and Palin) as if they are the backbone of down home thought. True or not, that's how they are being portrayed, and that's why the MSM picked=up on that and ran with it.

Think about it.

80 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:22pm

re: #64 funky chicken

I honestly don't think Sarah Palin deserved that slam.

Agreed. She has behaved honorably and does not deserve abuse. She may even make a good president with some more seasoning.

81 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:46pm

re: #72 captain joe

Buh-bye

82 WindHorse  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:47pm

As my dad would say... "he should have quit when he was ahead."

/joe that is

83 kansas  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:51pm

re: #53 KingKenrod

Lots of disgust on this blog for a guy who just asked Obama a simple question then got used as a prop for a couple of months. He's obviously not the sharpest guy out there. He doesn't deserves a collective groin kick like this no matter what he thinks.

That's true. What he says, however, is another matter.

84 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:20:57pm

re: #72 captain joe

How'd you learn to use a computer?

85 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:03pm

re: #3 HelloDare

He IS the snake in the toilet!

86 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:20pm

re: #72 captain joe

You're a bigot.

87 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:22pm

re: #68 sleepyone

Unfortunately the MSM will use comments like this to convince people that his views are the consensus of the far-right and/or Republicans.

It might come as a surprise to you, but the OK Republican platform says essentially the same thing as Joe (maybe even a little bit stronger), except they use the more technical term "homosexual" rather than "queer."

88 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:28pm

re: #72 captain joe

You are all a gaggle of pervs. Joe was just being true to himself. Calling a spade a spade. He's just saying what he believes. He doesn't expect the queer vote, only the homophobic vote. There's no sin to being homophobic. I fear and hate homos because they are alien and don't act normally. I don't want them near my children or loved ones. That's why good Catholics have left the church in recent years. The gay priests are alien to real men.

Get the fuck out of here.

89 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:39pm

re: #72 captain joe

Captain Joe = Moby Dick [grabs harpoon]

90 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:45pm

re: #72 captain joe

Are you for real?

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:56pm

re: #71 funky chicken

Sorry, but not funny.

I thought it was. To each their own.

92 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:21:59pm

re: #76 reine.de.tout

Hey, I had an answer for you:

nemaste...I am grateful....so hard yet so easy...thank you very much

93 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:14pm

re: #53 KingKenrod

Lots of disgust on this blog for a guy who just asked Obama a simple question then got used as a prop for a couple of months. He's obviously not the sharpest guy out there. He doesn't deserves a collective groin kick like this no matter what he thinks.

If he's going to be giving interviews to national magazines and saying stuff like this, he'd better get used to the heat -- or get out of the kitchen.

94 VioletTiger  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:18pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

Are you for real?

He fits the sleeper troll profile.

95 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:19pm

re: #72 captain joe

I never know whether to take posters like you seriously.

96 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:28pm

re: #74 albusteve

bullshit...he's an American and can say whatever the hell he wants

Well, he does have the right to say whatever he wants. But he should understand that with this hostile media they will take his words and use them to paint conservatives as bigoted. He is in the limelight for whatever reason and conservative points of view are targets of the MSM so my point was that one should watch what one says. Nuance.

97 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:31pm
98 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:51pm

re: #53 KingKenrod

Lots of disgust on this blog for a guy who just asked Obama a simple question then got used as a prop for a couple of months. He's obviously not the sharpest guy out there. He doesn't deserves a collective groin kick like this no matter what he thinks.

He took it beyond that. He got a book deal. He got a country music recording contract. He milked it for all it was worth. He didn't deserve a groin kick when he was still being used as a prop but the election is over and he's still out there on the public stage trying to rake in the fame and glory. Any fuckups before would have been on the part of his handlers. Now it's all on him.

99 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:56pm

This guy should have had the sense to end it when he questioned Obama. He could have been forever remembered as a hero. Now? We are forced to admit the *shudder* truth - he's a misinformed plumber.

100 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:22:58pm

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

Get the fuck out of here.

Quoted to preserve your comment. The original will probably be deleted for quoting that moby asshole.

101 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:07pm

re: #72 captain joe

You are all a gaggle of pervs. Joe was just being true to himself. Calling a spade a spade. He's just saying what he believes. He doesn't expect the queer vote, only the homophobic vote. There's no sin to being homophobic. I fear and hate homos because they are alien and don't act normally. I don't want them near my children or loved ones. That's why good Catholics have left the church in recent years. The gay priests are alien to real men.

hahahaha, it's people like you that make me want to vote democrat next time

102 brandon13  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:21pm

re: #72 captain joe

You are all a gaggle of pervs. Joe was just being true to himself. Calling a spade a spade. He's just saying what he believes. He doesn't expect the queer vote, only the homophobic vote. There's no sin to being homophobic. I fear and hate homos because they are alien and don't act normally. I don't want them near my children or loved ones. That's why good Catholics have left the church in recent years. The gay priests are alien to real men.

Fuck you. People like you are part of the reason the Republican party is in shambles.

103 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:21pm

re: #72 captain joe

GFY

104 Ojoe  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:22pm

re: #72 captain joe

God loves everyone

105 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:27pm

None of this is surprising to me anymore. There have always been elements of homophobia, racism, religious supremacism, etc. on the right. Joe the Plumber was always an idiot. I know a lot of lizards love Sarah Palin but she's not much better.

106 American Sabra  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:32pm

re: #72 captain joe

You are all a gaggle of pervs. Joe was just being true to himself. Calling a spade a spade. He's just saying what he believes. He doesn't expect the queer vote, only the homophobic vote. There's no sin to being homophobic. I fear and hate homos because they are alien and don't act normally. I don't want them near my children or loved ones. That's why good Catholics have left the church in recent years. The gay priests are alien to real men.

What's so scary? You think they're gonna barge in your house and redecorate your living room?

107 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:43pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

As a lover of Revolutionary Era history- I'm disturbed by this revisionism concerning our Founders and their intent. They most certainly intended for the American people to continue being people of faith- but freedom of conscience was of the highest importance to them- that the people would worship in the manner they felt was best for them- not dictating to the people what faith they ought to be. This revisionism makes me ill.


Sharmuta, I was hearing this "America is a Christian nation" stuff thirty years ago, and I'm sure it predates the 70s. I don't know if it is a Bircher thing or a product of the anti communist hysteria in the 50s. As I recall we added "In God we trust " to our coins in the 50s.

108 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:50pm

You know, it was a kind of a compelling story when this guy got ambushed by the Obama campaign while he was out in his own front yard, spoke his mind, and then had his life wrecked by leftist state officials and "journalists." Even his wikipedia entry is pretty much a smear. But how this made him an appropriate rallying point for the McCain campaign is beyond me. When McCain started dragging him around for campaign appearances, I thought that came off as a sign of desperation.

109 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:23:53pm

re: #99 ArmyWife

This guy should have had the sense to end it when he questioned Obama. He could have been forever remembered as a hero. Now? We are forced to admit the *shudder* truth - he's a misinformed plumber.

And the MSM will trudge this out when needed. The GOP is shooting itself in the foot, over and over.

110 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:18pm

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

Quoted to preserve your comment. The original will probably be deleted for quoting that moby asshole.

Thank you.

111 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:21pm

His 15 minutes are over. Get into the dumpster with Cindy Sheehan you doofus.

112 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:29pm

re: #104 Ojoe

God loves everyone

You know, I'm an atheist, yet I dinged that up.

113 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:35pm

re: #72 captain joe

Bye now! Watch out for queers, they're gonna jump outta the bushes and grab ya.

114 nyc redneck  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:38pm

re: #72 captain joe

priests molesting little children have nothing in common w/ gay people, most of whom are interested in relationships w/ other adults.

115 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:49pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

I know a lot of lizards love Sarah Palin but she's not much better.

Well, she is both prettier and sexier. I predict a fruitful future for MILFs in the GOP.

116 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:57pm

re: #92 albusteve

nemaste...I am grateful....so hard yet so easy...thank you very much

I found it like that, translation already done.
click the link in my post.

117 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:24:58pm

re: #87 freetoken

It might come as a surprise to you, but the OK Republican platform says essentially the same thing as Joe (maybe even a little bit stronger), except they use the more technical term "homosexual" rather than "queer."

Really? I knew Oklahoma was very religious (at least the few towns I've visited) but I didn't know thoughts like this were a part of an official platform.

118 cubbydave44  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:16pm

One word: embarrassing...

119 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:23pm

re: #104 Ojoe

God loves everyone

what if God was one of us...just a slob like one of us?

120 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:28pm

Wasn't he considering running for office? He can kiss that goodbye.

121 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:31pm

re: #33 HelloDare

Exactly!

122 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:36pm

re: #72 captain joe

I fear and hate homos because they are alien

You mean they are little green men?

123 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:50pm

Even more disturbing than Joe's bigotry is the editorial staff at "Christianity Today" thought defending the slur "queer" was fit to print.

124 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:56pm

re: #73 SpaceJesus

I support Israel, I don't support Joe the Plumber as I think he's a simpleton and a tool.

He didn't "stump" Obama, the cameras were rolling and Obama had to act the politician. Pretty sure any liberal with a half a brain would eat Joe for breakfast on political science topics.

Didn't realize you stood in support of Israel; somehow, I had the idea you didn't. Okay, that makes two points in your favor.

As for stumping Barry, I didn't say that Joe was bright - rather, Barry can't think on his feet. Put Joe up against anyone with a good brain, and you could expect he'd get the worst of it.

125 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:25:59pm
You are all a gaggle of pervs.


Well, that part is true.

Only we call ourselves preverts, thank you very much.

126 Ojoe  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:26:05pm

The low light of evening upon the snow telescope. The Towercam, in the San Gabriel Mountains of California. Pacific time zone.

Keep watching for the sunset, it will be along in a while.

BBL

127 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:26:05pm

re: #107 Jim in Virginia

Sharmuta, I was hearing this "America is a Christian nation" stuff thirty years ago, and I'm sure it predates the 70s. I don't know if it is a Bircher thing or a product of the anti communist hysteria in the 50s. As I recall we added "In God we trust " to our coins in the 50s.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Birchers were behind it.

128 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:26:27pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

None of this is surprising to me anymore. There have always been elements of homophobia, racism, religious supremacism, etc. on the right. Joe the Plumber was always an idiot. I know a lot of lizards love Sarah Palin but she's not much better.

Oh, come on.

129 theuglydougling  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:26:27pm

/Facepalm

130 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:26:32pm

re: #96 sleepyone

Well, he does have the right to say whatever he wants. But he should understand that with this hostile media they will take his words and use them to paint conservatives as bigoted. He is in the limelight for whatever reason and conservative points of view are targets of the MSM so my point was that one should watch what one says. Nuance.

right...that's his problem, not ours

131 Ojoe  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:26:40pm

re: #112 Occasional Reader

Thank you.

132 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:26:58pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Even more disturbing than Joe's bigotry is the editorial staff at "Christianity Today" thought defending the slur "queer" was fit to print.

I think it's a commonly used term in the gay community.
Queers for Palestine come to mind.

but in the context JTP used it , it was definately a slur.

133 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:07pm

re: #119 albusteve

He is, and the slob still owes me rent money!
/

134 Digital Display  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:20pm

re: #119 albusteve

what if God was one of us...just a slob like one of us?

Finally That song makes sense now

135 OldLineTexan  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:21pm

re: #125 Occasional Reader

Well, that part is true.

Only we call ourselves preverts, thank you very much.

/Archie, your dinner is ready!

136 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:27pm
137 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:29pm

About 4 months ago I saw this Joe the Plumber character as a liability. He's proving himself as such and why on Earth he's become a de facto spokesman for the GOP is beyond me. There's no rule that he has to accept homosexuals but there is a rule regarding public speaking that unless you are gay yourself using the word queer will raise some eyebrows. It will also have the effect of adding ammo to the opposition which is quick to characterize the GOP as being out of touch with the mainstream. To that end he has succeeded.

The novelty of Joe the Plumber wore out soon after he asked Barack Obama during the campaign. If they continue to trot out this man for an extended period he will only do more harm than good. Unfortunately, they won't listen and as Michael Steele points out and to the effect of "we are welcome into the house but we can't change anything." There must be some very smart people pulling the string so I guess we cannot effect any change in what is already a failing public relations attempt by the GOP. Adding to this is the archaically tinged platforms that have been trotted out for public view in recent weeks.

And this is just the warm up act.

138 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:47pm

re: #107 Jim in Virginia

Sharmuta, I was hearing this "America is a Christian nation" stuff thirty years ago, and I'm sure it predates the 70s. I don't know if it is a Bircher thing or a product of the anti communist hysteria in the 50s. As I recall we added "In God we trust " to our coins in the 50s.

Possibly we'd have to go back to the late 19th century, maybe the beginning of the 20th century, when "modernism" was being born. At that time too travel cross country was becoming more common (due to the installed RR base). It was a very dynamic time, and the rise of Progressivism probably brought about the backlash. I'm thinking the Scopes trial was the climax of the whole scene.

139 KingKenrod  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:51pm

re: #93 Charles

If he's going to be giving interviews to national magazines and saying stuff like this, he'd better get used to the heat -- or get out of the kitchen.

Actually, I take my comment back as I see he is out promoting his book. I didn't even know he had a book.

But I think it's more interesting that Christianity Today published his comments since they are advocacy, not news. His remarks were printed uncritically.

140 WindHorse  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:51pm

Captain Joe.... in name only..... probably an OS. (no offense to any OS out there...)

141 Ojoe  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:27:52pm

re: #119 albusteve

Well if you are a Christian, you believe that God was one of us, and that he understands us completely because of that.

142 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:28:17pm

re: #102 brandon13

Fuck you. People like you are part of the reason the Republican party is in shambles.

If anyone is taking bets, I'm betting that this captain joe moron was just a moby. And I'm willing to offer odds.

143 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:28:27pm

re: #72 captain joe

[Ed. note: this account has been blocked.]

You are all a gaggle of pervs. Joe was just being true to himself. Calling a spade a spade. He's just saying what he believes. He doesn't expect the queer vote, only the homophobic vote. There's no sin to being homophobic. I fear and hate homos because they are alien and don't act normally. I don't want them near my children or loved ones. That's why good Catholics have left the church in recent years. The gay priests are alien to real men.

Satire, folks. Didn't the first line give it away?

144 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:28:33pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

I disagree. But that isn't a shock, is it? There are, in fact, conservatives who aren't bigots - who embrace religion and the religious, as well as respect those who aren't. It's possible to do both.

145 solomonpanting  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:28:52pm
Do you have plans to run for public office?

Not right now. God hasn't said, "Joe, I want you to run." I feel more important to just encourage people to get involved, one way or another. If I can inspire some leaders, that would be great. I don't know if I want to be a leader.

He shouldn't spend too much time pondering that idea.

146 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:28:55pm
147 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:29:10pm

re: #138 freetoken

Possibly we'd have to go back to the late 19th century, maybe the beginning of the 20th century, when "modernism" was being born. At that time too travel cross country was becoming more common (due to the installed RR base). It was a very dynamic time, and the rise of Progressivism probably brought about the backlash. I'm thinking the Scopes trial was the climax of the whole scene.

Also the Seventh Day Adventists and their formation of modern creationism.

148 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:29:14pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

None of this is surprising to me anymore. There have always been elements of homophobia, racism, religious supremacism, etc. on the right. Joe the Plumber was always an idiot. I know a lot of lizards love Sarah Palin but she's not much better.

that's it you nut....were gonna arm wrestle...loser weeds the garden

149 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:29:25pm

re: #140 WindHorse

Captain Joe.... in name only..... probably an OS. (no offense to any OS out there...)

He was just a moby, popping up to make us look bad.

150 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:29:45pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

None of this is surprising to me anymore. There have always been elements of homophobia, racism, religious supremacism, etc. on the right. Joe the Plumber was always an idiot. I know a lot of lizards love Sarah Palin but she's not much better.

What are you talking about? She is way hotter than he is!

151 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:30:18pm

re: #127 Sharmuta

I wouldn't be surprised if the Birchers were behind it.

Sharm, I've read original religious tracts and material from the 1880's that talked about America being a Christian nation. It's far from a new idea.

152 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:30:20pm

re: #143 Jim in Virginia

Satire, folks. Didn't the first line give it away?

That wasn't there at first. Charles must have inserted that line after he blocked the guy's account.

153 kansas  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:30:35pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

He was just a moby, popping up to make us look bad.

Maybe McGee and Abby could track him back to Kos or HuffPo.

154 wee fury  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:30:39pm

Say it ain't so, Joe.

155 Rishonah  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:30:47pm

I am not the only person here with gay family members whom I love and whose lives I cherish. I cannot accept this sort of blatant prejudice; not against Jews, not against gays, not against African-Americans.

The GOP is not doing themselves any favors by this sort of garbage. What happened to Reagan's "big tent?" Was that just another political ploy?

156 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:30:57pm

re: #72 captain joe

Ever heard of casting stones?

157 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:11pm

re: #143 Jim in Virginia
Well, OK, not satire. Geez.

158 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:17pm

re: #13 Charles

The stalker blogs will now start shrieking that I'm "throwing Joe the Plumber under the bus."

When you live inside their heads as I do, you can't help overhearing what they're thinking.

We all live inside their heads now!

//

159 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:20pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

None of this is surprising to me anymore. There have always been elements of homophobia, racism, religious supremacism, etc. on the right. Joe the .

Let's not forget the black community, the Asian community, the Hispanic community, the Jewish community, etc if you want to use a broad brush to paint an entire group as homophobic.

I believe none of those groups are huge supporters of the homosexual lifestyle, in fact, they are very anti homosexual lifestyle.

160 FrogMarch  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:20pm

oy.

161 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:24pm

re: #141 Ojoe

Well if you are a Christian, you believe that God was one of us, and that he understands us completely because of that.

I'm ambivalent....have not put my money down yet

162 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:25pm

re: #130 albusteve

He has the right to say this, of course, so long as he remembers free speech doesn't mean free from repercussions.

163 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:28pm

re: #130 albusteve

right...that's his problem, not ours

The bigger concern is that the MSM uses things like this to tar and feather what they consider to be conservatives or right-leaning folks in general.

164 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:33pm

re: #143 Jim in Virginia

Satire, folks. Didn't the first line give it away?

WTF?

165 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:45pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Sharm, I've read original religious tracts and material from the 1880's that talked about America being a Christian nation. It's far from a new idea.

That would again co-ordinate with the creationist movement.

166 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:31:48pm

re: #148 albusteve

that's it you nut....were gonna arm wrestle...loser weeds the garden

No, no... winner gardens the weed.

167 American Sabra  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:32:38pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

That's right. Cuz he is sooo unique LOL

Come on. Joe did a good thing by going to Israel... kinda sorta... in a way. I mean he had courage. He stood for Israel. Hell, most people won't go (and it's really very safe). So he gets kudos for that. But really COME ON. Is this a shocker?

168 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:32:53pm

re: #52 funky chicken

Actually, John Adams hated the doctrine of the Trinity, and saw it as savage. He may have been a moral man. But a devout Christian? Anything but.

169 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:32:59pm

re: #144 ArmyWife

I disagree. But that isn't a shock, is it? There are, in fact, conservatives who aren't bigots - who embrace religion and the religious, as well as respect those who aren't. It's possible to do both.

What you said.

170 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:33:29pm

re: #143 Jim in Virginia

Satire, folks. Didn't the first line give it away?

That's how I read it. He just didn't use a sarc tag.

Or are you being sarcastic?

Now I'm confused...

171 albusteve  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:33:30pm

re: #163 sleepyone

The bigger concern is that the MSM uses things like this to tar and feather what they consider to be conservatives or right-leaning folks in general.

well what do you expect?....the bigger concern is not the MSM...that's foolish

172 Ojoe  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:33:44pm

re: #161 albusteve

OK

173 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:33:45pm

re: #166 Walter L. Newton

No, no... winner gardens the weed.


Bad Walter!

174 medaura18586  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:33:57pm

I always thought "Joe the Plumber" was an asshat. I hope I've gone on record early enough at LGF. Never for a moment did I doubt this kind of trashy worldview lied underneath his "folksy" rhetoric. "Joe the Plumber." Pfff...

175 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:34:01pm

re: #143 Jim in Virginia

Satire, folks. Didn't the first line give it away?

Definitely not sarcasm. I reviewed its other comments.

176 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:34:48pm

re: #124 Guanxi88

Didn't realize you stood in support of Israel; somehow, I had the idea you didn't. Okay, that makes two points in your favor.

As for stumping Barry, I didn't say that Joe was bright - rather, Barry can't think on his feet. Put Joe up against anyone with a good brain, and you could expect he'd get the worst of it.

Israel is the reason I started coming here in the first place.

Say what you want about Obama, but he is a smart man. He could have torn into Joe and humiliated him, but since the cameras were rolling and he had just spent 9 months on the road campaigning he knew better, so he just stayed quiet. He made the smarter move.

177 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:35:08pm

Wait a minute.

Who set this man up as an arbiter of anything?

178 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:35:16pm

Sure enough... HuffPo: Joe The Plumber Slurs Gay People: I Would Never Let "Queers" Near My Children

There are 41 pages of comments.

179 Dekar  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:35:20pm

Joe Dirt?

180 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:35:47pm

SpaceJesus is alright. Just a quirky way of making his point.

181 dwells38  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:35:50pm

Well this was rather stunning. I assumed the guy was normal and had a mature outlook on things. He expresses himself in writing about as well as my ten year old daughters although they have a better grasp of right and wrong.

Isn't it nice how he goes way out on a limb and acknowledges "queers" as people (albeit people he wouldn't let near his children). So open minded. I'm sure those homosexual friends of his are calling him up and thanking him for his bold defense of their right to walk and breath among we "normals".

What an idiot.

182 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:35:53pm

re: #178 Last Mohican

Sure enough... HuffPo: Joe The Plumber Slurs Gay People: I Would Never Let "Queers" Near My Children

There are 41 pages of comments.

There you go.

183 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:06pm

No doubt JTP will get another appearance on Huckabee and Beck.

184 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:06pm

re: #167 American Sabra

Nope, not shocking, just saddening.

185 Simply Me  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:09pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

Originally, the Us Constitution and the Bill of Rights was understood to apply to the federal government only. So the individual states were understood to have the right to impose a state religion at that level. That is why Thomas Jefferson was most proud of writing the Virginia Statue of Religious Freedom, ensuring that no state religion would be imposed in Virginia.

"From 1780 Massachusetts had a system which required every man to belong to a church, and permitted each church to tax its members, but forbade any law requiring that it be of any particular denomination. This was objected to, as in practice establishing the Congregational Church, the majority denomination, and was abolished in 1833."

See Wikipedia here, section 8.

186 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:10pm
187 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:25pm

re: #53 KingKenrod

Lots of disgust on this blog for a guy who just asked Obama a simple question then got used as a prop for a couple of months. He's obviously not the sharpest guy out there. He doesn't deserves a collective groin kick like this no matter what he thinks.

As someone else replied and alluded to, what JTP thinks becomes an BIG issue for those of us trying to keep the conservative faith (as it were) when it came flying out of his big yap. He should have quit while he was ahead, but because he (and) others) got greedy, all conservatives will be tarred with his paleo-opinions (even more than they usually are).

188 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:36pm

re: #130 albusteve

right...that's his problem, not ours

As long as he's trying to pass himself off as a spokesman for the conservative movement, what he says is a problem for the conservative movement.

Like I said earlier, Democrats love it every time he opens his mouth.

189 HelloDare  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:37pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Constitution was based off Enlightenment principles, and Greco-Roman traditions. Democracies and Republics pre-date the Christian faith.

I did a search of the Federalist Papers. God wasn't mentioned once. Even searched for a couple of euphemisms for God. Nothing.

190 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:36:54pm

re: #170 sleepyone No, I was confused. I figured he meant it as a joke. Maybe he did but it is a perfect quote mine for someone to discredit LGF. .

191 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:37:06pm

re: #179 Dekar

Joe Dirt?

He's not as funny as David Spade.

192 solomonpanting  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:37:07pm

Joe the Plumber

"Payday is Friday"

193 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:37:15pm

re: #176 SpaceJesus

Israel is the reason I started coming here in the first place.

Say what you want about Obama, but he is a smart man. He could have torn into Joe and humiliated him, but since the cameras were rolling and he had just spent 9 months on the road campaigning he knew better, so he just stayed quiet. He made the smarter move.

Shrewd might be the better word for Barry, but you're right. Cripes!

194 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:37:19pm
And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn’t have them anywhere near my children.

That is a toxic mix of hate and ignorance right there. Yow.

195 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:37:22pm

re: #72 captain joe

[Ed. note: this account has been blocked.]

You are all a gaggle of pervs. Joe was just being true to himself. Calling a spade a spade. He's just saying what he believes. He doesn't expect the queer vote, only the homophobic vote. There's no sin to being homophobic. I fear and hate homos because they are alien and don't act normally. I don't want them near my children or loved ones. That's why good Catholics have left the church in recent years. The gay priests are alien to real men.

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

196 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:37:28pm

re: #146 buzzsawmonkey

I thought it was "passel of perverts," like "pride of lions," "pod of whales," "gibber of moonbats," etc.

Technically, we're a mutiny of preverts.

197 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:38:17pm

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

198 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:38:26pm

re: #196 Occasional Reader

Technically, we're a mutiny of preverts.

Deviated preverts, to be exact

199 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:38:33pm

re: #193 Guanxi88

Shrewd might be the better word for Barry, but you're right. Cripes!

yeah shrewd probably is the better word.

200 brandon13  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:38:34pm

Joe the Homophobe

Has that been used yet?

201 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:38:57pm

re: #197 Charles

Let's make it $50 million. I'm sure they're good for it

202 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:04pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!


the true reward will be watching them all finally shut up.

203 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:04pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

25,000,000? Wow, they're going to have to sell a lot of books over at World Nut Daily. /

204 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:09pm

re: #136 buzzsawmonkey

I never claimed bigotry doesn't exist on the left. How soon you guys forget that I spent years digging up antisemitism on dkos.

205 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:09pm

re: #117 sleepyone

Really? I knew Oklahoma was very religious (at least the few towns I've visited) but I didn't know thoughts like this were a part of an official platform.

See here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

From the OK state GOP platform draft (which I presume was what was accepted, with possible additions):

5. We oppose the efforts to re-define marriage. Employers and taxpayers should not be forced to violate their convictions or to bear the cost of granting “same-sex marriages” the respect and benefits that are due traditional marriages.

-


1. We oppose the promotion of homosexuality, the elimination of laws against sodomy, and the granting of minority protection or special status to any person based upon sexual preference or lifestyle choices.

2. We believe that homosexuality is not a genetic trait, but a chosen lifestyle.

-

6. We believe that in order to encourage and protect family values, those promoting homosexuality or other aberrant lifestyles should not be allowed to hold responsible positions over children, which are not their own, or other vulnerable persons.

This goes beyond being generically pro-marriage and is truly homophobic. Read #6 above again. What is "promoting"? What if a gay man just comes out of the closet and is seen publicly with his lover?

If you think that is bad, you should see what the Tulsa county platform says...

206 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:09pm

re: #181 dwells38

Well this was rather stunning. I assumed the guy was normal and had a mature outlook on things. He expresses himself in writing about as well as my ten year old daughters although they have a better grasp of right and wrong.

Isn't it nice how he goes way out on a limb and acknowledges "queers" as people (albeit people he wouldn't let near his children). So open minded. I'm sure those homosexual friends of his are calling him up and thanking him for his bold defense of their right to walk and breath among we "normals".

What an idiot.

Small correction: this is an interview with him, not an essay from him.

207 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:13pm
208 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:18pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

Thanks Mandy, now I just had some sort of fit induced from that flashing shit. Please put a warning on those links before you do that again.

But Maisey the Parrot really like it.

:)

209 American Sabra  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:25pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

Nope, not shocking, just saddening.

Well I guess mom was right. You really shouldn't talk religion and politics in mixed company.

210 medaura18586  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:33pm

I'm laughing pretty hard here... that captain joe's comment was just priceless.

211 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:45pm

re: #185 Simply Me

And Maryland was a Catholic state- the Founders were truly revolutionaries in that what was intended for the Federal government trickled down to the states.

212 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:46pm

re: #197 Charles

Where's my money?

I eated it

213 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:39:54pm

re: #204 Killgore Trout

I never claimed bigotry doesn't exist on the left. How soon you guys forget that I spent years digging up antisemitism on dkos.

Years? It usually takes minutes.

214 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:40:15pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

You're right. It's being sold to the public this way. And it's being done by the right, not the left! What does conservatism even mean anymore?

215 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:40:16pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

This is better than the Willie Wonka movie!

216 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:40:36pm

re: #180 Sharmuta

SpaceJesus is alright. Just a quirky way of making his point.

Yeah, he's growing on me.

217 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:40:57pm

re: #205 freetoken
What does the Tulsa County platform say?
I assume it is not a big tent?

218 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:05pm
219 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:16pm

re: #197 Charles

LGF is on the blogroll. Maybe he's expecting all y'all to pitch in.

220 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:19pm

For re: #105 Killgore Trout

None of this is surprising to me anymore. There have always been elements of homophobia, racism, religious supremacism, etc. on the right. Joe the Plumber was always an idiot. I know a lot of lizards love Sarah Palin but she's not much better.

Hey, it's both sides. Funny (not) how a guy like Larry Craig (disgusting) is called every name in the book and made fun of when its' convenient to them, Michael Steele has Oreo cookies rolled up on a stage during a debate and noone on the left comes to his defense, and Miss California is now "fair game" to feminist groups. The far right and the far left have a lot in common with their hatreds and biases, and I'm sick of them both.

221 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:25pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

Thanks Mandy, now I just had some sort of fit induced from that flashing shit. Please put a warning on those links before you do that again.

But Maisey the Parrot really like it.

:)

WHAT?

222 rain of lead  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:31pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

OMG! that caused me to have a seizure

223 Simply Me  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:41pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Sharm, I've read original religious tracts and material from the 1880's that talked about America being a Christian nation. It's far from a new idea.

The Wikipedia article I cited above says that some of the states originally required that state legislators be Christians.

224 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:43pm

re: #171 albusteve

well what do you expect?....the bigger concern is not the MSM...that's foolish

I guess what I mean by my concern over the MSM with this issue is that they control the message. They spin and lie and twist unfortunately some viewers are too dim to see through their deceit.

225 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:45pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

I still like this post as an answer to that sort of lunacy.

226 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:49pm

re: #197 Charles

Oh we need to submit SOMETHING. We've got talent on this blog, from El Capitan Lizard to wee leetle nobody lizards. With that...

FIRE UP THE PHOTOSHOP MACHINE!

227 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:51pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

Yeah, he's growing on me.

I don't care if it rains or freezes.
Long as I got my plastic Spacejesus.
Riding on the dashboard of my car...

//

228 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:41:56pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

You know, I heard Corsi on some show yesterday, and I was thinking, why the hell is anyone listening to him? Unless I'm missing something, the 4 or 5 issues he had with Obama, and all the proof he was going to present about this or that, never came to be. Nada, nothing, zilch, zippo.

Gee, I wish I could promise the world to the world and not deliver and still keep my job.

229 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:42:04pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

Yeah, he's growing on me.

Kinda like an odd smell that you get used too after a while? Or, perhaps a tart flavor that at first seems horrible, but in time, your pallet adjusts?

230 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:42:08pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

Yeah, he's growing on me.

Well, so does athlete's foot.

231 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:42:14pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

Yeah, he's growing on me.

I think we've gotten to him. Less of the schtick and some pretty good posts lately.

232 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:42:24pm
233 pittrader1988  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:42:27pm

re: #93 Charles

I agree, but at the same time reasonable people can say they don't accept the notion of "queers", gay marriage, abortion.

If you are a devout Christian, I can see you having trouble with gays and gay marriage. I can see you having trouble with abortion.

Reasonable people can disagree on these points, and as long as one is not hysterical, I think it's pretty tough to find accommodation on them.

If you are pro choice, and I am pro life-there are not too many gray areas in between. Pro-gay marriage, anti-gay marriage, where is the compromise?

234 GeicoGecko  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:42:46pm

Some slug named Shug has no sense of humor.

235 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:42:58pm

re: #222 rain of lead

OMG! that caused me to have a seizure

Why aren't you calling 911?

Seriously, I'll remember to post a NSFE from now on.

236 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:43:10pm

re: #219 Mich-again

check's in the mail

237 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:43:28pm

re: #197 Charles

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet.

Where did you see that part? It looks to me like they're actually promising to pay the $25M, as soon as their "document experts" verify the document.

238 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:43:30pm
239 formercorpsman  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:43:33pm

re: #197 Charles

[Link: www.cheapequipmentparts.com...]

240 idioma  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:43:47pm

"People don’t understand the dictionary—it’s called queer."
"I’ve had some friends that are actually homosexual."

Yeah, and some of my best friends are black too, Joe.

The imaginary gay/black friend argument, whatever.

Riddle me this batman: If sexual "preference" is a person choosing the gender they are attracted to, I want Joe to tell me when he made the choice to be straight.

The GOP has drawn a disastrous line in the sand with this one, choosing an open statement of bigotry. It's not just the "gay vote" the GOP lose, it's the "my brother/sister/daughter/best friend/cousin/coworker/boss/etc. is gay, and I hate the way our culture treats them." vote. The democrats have no trouble raking in those votes, not because they are the "Gay Party", but because they don't openly attack gays every chance they get.

And yeah, having a black president after the 1960's does make anti-gay sentiment seem just as antiquated as Jim Crow Laws.

Gays: Separate But Equal
This Message Paid For By The RNC

241 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:43:51pm

Meanwhile, a truly monumental kook has shown up in the Melanie Phillips thread.

242 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:44:03pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

Wow. I'm going to fire up the scanner and launch Photoshop for a payday!

243 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:44:10pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

I don't know why anyone is surprised that a plumber should, in fact, be plumbing the depths.

Things will just go down the toilet. /

244 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:44:26pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

Tried to bookmark that for future use, and could hardly type.

245 NY Nana  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:44:31pm

re: #197 Charles

And LGF is on their blogroll! At least they can be right about something.

246 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:44:42pm

re: #207 GeicoGecko

Not funny, dude...

AT.ALL.

247 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #217 Jim in Virginia

What does the Tulsa County platform say?
I assume it is not a big tent?

More like a pup tent.

248 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:00pm

re: #233 pittrader1988

I agree, but at the same time reasonable people can say they don't accept the notion of "queers", gay marriage, abortion.

If you are a devout Christian, I can see you having trouble with gays and gay marriage. I can see you having trouble with abortion.

Reasonable people can disagree on these points, and as long as one is not hysterical, I think it's pretty tough to find accommodation on them.

If you are pro choice, and I am pro life-there are not too many gray areas in between. Pro-gay marriage, anti-gay marriage, where is the compromise?

In your opinion, is Joe the plumber being reasonable in his remarks above?

249 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:01pm

re: #244 reine.de.tout

Tried to bookmark that for future use, and could hardly type.

I did, but I will never be the same

250 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:08pm

re: #226 ArmyWife

Oh we need to submit SOMETHING. We've got talent on this blog, from El Capitan Lizard to wee leetle nobody lizards. With that...

FIRE UP THE PHOTOSHOP MACHINE!

Hell yeah. $25 million could buy a lot of hamster chow.

251 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:08pm

re: #233 pittrader1988

I agree, but at the same time reasonable people can say they don't accept the notion of "queers", gay marriage, abortion.

If you are a devout Christian, I can see you having trouble with gays and gay marriage. I can see you having trouble with abortion.

Reasonable people can disagree on these points, and as long as one is not hysterical, I think it's pretty tough to find accommodation on them.

If you are pro choice, and I am pro life-there are not too many gray areas in between. Pro-gay marriage, anti-gay marriage, where is the compromise?

The compromise lies in folks extending their beliefs no farther than the tips of their fingers.

252 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:22pm

Everyone in this world must find their way. The right way is to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and stay the hell out of his business. Joe the Plumber has lost his way.

253 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:33pm
254 karmasherabwangchuk  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:49pm

re: #53 KingKenrod

Lots of disgust on this blog for a guy who just asked Obama a simple question then got used as a prop for a couple of months. He's obviously not the sharpest guy out there. He doesn't deserves a collective groin kick like this no matter what he thinks.

due respect he is the one who decided to quit his job as a plumber and become a journalist/pundit/blue collar philosopher. and when he took that job he put himself up to have his ideas and opinions judged as to their merit and worth in the arena of public opinion. he could have let his 15 minutes expire and gone back to fixing broken pipes. instead he has chosen to take a job which he is clearly not qualified for.

255 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:51pm
256 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:56pm

re: #104 Ojoe

Thank you for being the most gracious post, even though I wanted to post like everyone else!

257 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:45:59pm

re: #234 GeicoGecko

Some slug named Shug has no sense of humor.

WAIT

Are you calling OUR Shug a slug?

258 dwells38  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:46:14pm

re: #38 funky chicken

Being in the trenches as a mother of two middle schoolers, I have to say I'm much more concerned by our culture's wholesale embrace of pornography than by homosexuals. My kids easily and readily say "YUCK" when they see stuff like far-out "gay rights" parades, etc. Heterosexual pornography has had a much worse effect on their age group, and I do worry about how it will put pressure especially on my daughter as she starts dating.

Go ahead, call me a prude, but I'm just reporting what I see pretty much every day in their peer groups--and my kids are "good kids" and pretty sheltered.

A reasonable concern funky chicken. But why would homosexuals worry you at all? Gay rights parades are for exhibitionist idiots who want to shock people. But think about the people you know who are gay possibly in the workplace or someone you knew in college. Did they all strike you as someone who would dress flamboyantly and french kiss their partner in front of families with small children? Not the ones I've known. Most are just regular people who try to fly under the radar and live their lives.

My wife and I became friends a few years ago with a Republican gay couple who were quite nice and normal and successful. They didn't appear to have any interest in anyone's children.

I have relatives who are hetero and dysfunctional I'd be less comfortable with watching my kids.

I'm not willing to throw all gay people under the bus just because of some idiots I saw in a gay pride parade. As I don't lump all my liberal acquaintances in with Code Pink or Cyndy Sheehan minions.

259 rain of lead  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:46:26pm

re: #235 MandyManners

Why aren't you calling 911?

Seriously, I'll remember to post a NSFE from now on.

please do. the seizure thing was just a joke and the blood has almost stopped seeping from my eyeballs

260 Simply Me  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:46:27pm
Until 1877 the New Hampshire Constitution required members of the State legislature to be of the Protestant religion.

The North Carolina Constitution of 1776 disestablished the Anglican church, but until 1835 the NC Constitution allowed only Protestants to hold public office. From 1835-1876 it allowed only Christians (including Catholics) to hold public office. Article VI, Section 8 of the current NC Constitution forbids only atheists from holding public office.[33] Such clauses were held by the United States Supreme Court to be unenforceable in the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, when the court ruled unanimously that such clauses constituted a religious test incompatible with First and Fourteenth Amendment protections.

From Wikipedia article on State religions here, see section 6.

261 American Sabra  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:46:39pm

re: #233 pittrader1988

I agree, but at the same time reasonable people can say they don't accept the notion of "queers", gay marriage, abortion.

If you are a devout Christian, I can see you having trouble with gays and gay marriage. I can see you having trouble with abortion.

Reasonable people can disagree on these points, and as long as one is not hysterical, I think it's pretty tough to find accommodation on them.

If you are pro choice, and I am pro life-there are not too many gray areas in between. Pro-gay marriage, anti-gay marriage, where is the compromise?

For starters, maybe he shouldn't have said "queers" in public and claim it isn't an insult. It's pretty much downhill from there.

262 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:46:41pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

BHO should take the 25 million and give it to Planned Parenthood as a object lesson.

263 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:46:55pm

re: #233 pittrader1988

I agree, but at the same time reasonable people can say they don't accept the notion of "queers", gay marriage, abortion.

If you are a devout Christian, I can see you having trouble with gays and gay marriage. I can see you having trouble with abortion.

Reasonable people can disagree on these points, and as long as one is not hysterical, I think it's pretty tough to find accommodation on them.

If you are pro choice, and I am pro life-there are not too many gray areas in between. Pro-gay marriage, anti-gay marriage, where is the compromise?

Twnety years ago the average age for marriage was 22 or 23. Now it is past thirty. There is no societal disapproval for shacking up or having kids out of wedlock. You can argue whether that is a net postive or negative, but the fight to save marriage was lost a long time ago.

264 zoidberg  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:47:15pm
I’ve had some friends that are actually homosexual. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn’t have them anywhere near my children.

What a disgusting thing to say. Obviously these "friends" of his don't have much self respect to consider this wanker to be a "friend".

Pig.

265 solomonpanting  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:47:16pm

re: #233 pittrader1988

I agree, but at the same time reasonable people can say they don't accept the notion of "queers", gay marriage, abortion.

There's a monumental difference between accepting the "notion" or idea or, dare I say, the reality of the existence of of "queers" or homosexuals, and the acceptance of same-sex marriage.

266 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:47:21pm

re: #252 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Everyone in this world must find their way. The right way is to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and stay the hell out of his business. Joe the Plumber has lost his way.

I thought the golden rule was vanquish your enemy and hear the lamentations of their women? Oh wait, that was Conan the Barbarian....nevermind

267 Racer X  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:47:45pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

*recovering from seizure*

*not really but - yikes!

268 looking closely  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:47:57pm

I'll get worked up over "Joe the Plumber" when he runs for political office.

269 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:48:04pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton


WHAT? He called Shug a Slug? Damn interloper. Doesn't he know it's Shuuug as in sugar? Doesn't rhyme with slug at all.

(apologies to interlopers all around)

270 boofar  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:48:34pm

Charles, if you don't mind me asking, what are your opinions about gay marriage?

Personally I'm indifferent. I don't oppose it and don't support it. I've known gays who lived in my dorm and they come across as normal people. I'm from CT and that state made civil unions legit for gays. I remember reading the news and then wondering whether my latest manga/anime was released (I have a minor case of teh Otaku, sue me). To be honest, I was actually surprised when this one guy, overly metro-sexual, was living with another guy who was not flamboyant. The less flamboyant individual was actually annoyed with his roomie. He wasn't big on political correctness and just wanted to get along drinking beers with everyone else. That was a big culture shock. Now with things such as gaypatriot.net, I'm beginning to see a whole new side to gays (admittedly, due to the left's self-described monopoly, I have been of the opinion Gay = Leftist). I've also grown sympathetic to gays in light of Iran's execution of gays purely because of how they're born.

No, you simply don't decide one day that you like those of the same sex as you, anyone who disagrees, just try to think of members of the same sex in an intimate manner. Not working out too well? Thought so...

I do hope that the Republican party can get over itself and social issues. People don't care as much as they think they do. People wanted a pro-small government party, imo. Instead they got the Vista of politics (and with Obama we're seeing Vista + Java + little annoying gadgets bloatware... times 20). A better approach would have been: We don't like it, but it's a states' rights issue. That's what Lynn Cheney said! Why is it that the wives of the Republican men seemed infinitely more composed and coherent the entire time?!

BTW, with 6 gigs of ram, Vista runs not too shabby :) . C# is teh awesome...

Ok, a little off-topic :D .

271 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:48:35pm

re: #268 looking closely

I'll get worked up over "Joe the Plumber" when he runs for political office.

Well, he's lost the queer vote, that is for certain! (Mine too and I like women!)

272 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:48:44pm

re: #267 Racer X

*recovering from seizure*

*not really but - yikes!

Well, I am. And Maisey the Parrot is trying to clam me down by imitating the purring sound of a cat.

273 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:48:49pm

re: #262 avanti

BHO should take the 25 million and give it to Planned Parenthood as a object lesson.

You know. That would be pretty funny. Barack Obama finally show up and presents his birth certificate in public and then gets the reward money.

274 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:48:53pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

WAIT

Are you calling OUR Shug a slug?

Did you see GeicoGecko's "joke"?

Oh yeah, I downdinged him too...frakkin' moron.

275 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:49:08pm

re: #205 freetoken

This goes beyond being generically pro-marriage and is truly homophobic. Read #6 above again. What is "promoting"? What if a gay man just comes out of the closet and is seen publicly with his lover?

If you think that is bad, you should see what the Tulsa county platform says...

I had no idea and I grew up just south of Lawton, OK in north Texas. Haven't lived in Texas for years though.

My first thoughts were the same as yours: What exactly is "promoting".

However I do agree with them regarding not "granting of minority protection or special status" at least as it pertains to so-called hate crimes, if that's what they meant.

276 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:49:23pm

*headdesk*

277 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:49:25pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

I don't know why anyone is surprised that a plumber should, in fact, be plumbing the depths.

Don't ratchet up a pun thread.

278 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:49:31pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

That triggered a migraine.

279 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:49:41pm
280 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:50:15pm

re: #253 buzzsawmonkey

I be gone.

You be having sweet dreams.

281 looking closely  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:50:22pm

re: #197 Charles

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for: Reward for Obama's Birth Certificate!

Yes! $25,000,000!

Well, they don't exactly have the $25,000,000 yet. But they will! Because their cause is just and their hearts are pure!

If I were Obama, I'd release the certificate, and bag the $25MM myself.

Even if all the whacko conspiracy theories are true (and I don't believe them), practically speaking, its too late to do anything about it anyway.

282 ShanghaiEd  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:50:45pm

re: #220 SasquatchOnSteroids

For

Hey, it's both sides. Funny (not) how a guy like Larry Craig (disgusting) is called every name in the book and made fun of when its' convenient to them, Michael Steele has Oreo cookies rolled up on a stage during a debate and noone on the left comes to his defense, and Miss California is now "fair game" to feminist groups. The far right and the far left have a lot in common with their hatreds and biases, and I'm sick of them both.

I would quibble with you on the Craig matter. The left didn't mock Craig for being gay, but for being an avid anti-gay, "family values" Republican legislator while privately cruising men's rooms. It's not a question of his sexuality, but of his monumental hypocrisy.

283 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:50:48pm

re: #277 MandyManners

Don't ratchet up a pun thread.

Who told you to pipe in ?

284 Jim in Virginia  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:51:16pm

re: #240 idioma

"People don’t understand the dictionary—it’s called queer."
"I’ve had some friends that are actually homosexual."

Yeah, and some of my best friends are black too, Joe.

The imaginary gay/black friend argument, whatever.

Actually, this is progress. I recall a debate for a local election in Texas circa 1980. Question on gay rights came from the audience. The Democrat candidates noted their concern for gay rights, as they had all "worked with gay people." None admitted any gay friends.

285 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:51:29pm

re: #234 GeicoGecko

Some slug named Shug has no sense of humor.

That was supposed to be funny?

Try harder.

And try to have 1/1000th the credibility of the person you are insulting.

286 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:51:37pm

re: #226 ArmyWife

Oh we need to submit SOMETHING. We've got talent on this blog, from El Capitan Lizard to wee leetle nobody lizards. With that...

FIRE UP THE PHOTOSHOP MACHINE!

Ya beat me to it!

287 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:52:06pm

I'm off to bed now, so would someone please do me a favor and post this in the open thread later tonight? It's a National Geographic clip on Palestinian suicide bombers, specifically on how some mothers raise their sons to commit murder-suicide against Jews:

Youtube Video
288 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:52:13pm

re: #232 buzzsawmonkey

I merely want to underscore that the fact that "homophobia" is not a malady uniquely ascribable to the so-called right wing.

These guys sure didn't vote for John McCain. Watch the video.

289 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:52:14pm

re: #254 karmasherabwangchuk

due respect he is the one who decided to quit his job as a plumber and become a journalist/pundit/blue collar philosopher. and when he took that job he put himself up to have his ideas and opinions judged as to their merit and worth in the arena of public opinion. he could have let his 15 minutes expire and gone back to fixing broken pipes. instead he has chosen to take a job which he is clearly not qualified for.

Why is he not "qualified"? What tests must Americans pass in order to be "qualified" to express an opinion?

290 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:52:16pm

re: #255 taxfreekiller

John F. Kerry spoke out in lies about American fighting men under oath,
before the U.S. Congress, he then lied more and enabled the over running of S. Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos by mad dog commie killers, millions died, millions suffer still,,,, and there he sits in our U.S. Senate a Democrat party leader,,,,unpunished this very hour.

compare and contrast to Joe the plummer.

One is a douche and the other is an idiot. Different degrees of being an asshole. I need to make a chart up.....re: #282 ShanghaiEd

I would quibble with you on the Craig matter. The left didn't mock Craig for being gay, but for being an avid anti-gay, "family values" Republican legislator while privately cruising men's rooms. It's not a question of his sexuality, but of his monumental hypocrisy.

That is what makes Craig so pathetic

291 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:52:51pm

OT -

I just opened a can of Mandarin orange slices and on the can it says "in Mandarin orange juice." WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

292 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:52:54pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

That's my favorite redirect link. Hilarious.

293 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:52:55pm
Joe the Plumber weighs in
Youtube Video

/at least he didn't get air time on MSNBC

294 Buck  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:53:27pm

Wow... right on time.... 15 minutes and one second...

295 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:53:35pm

re: #283 Shug

Who told you to pipe in ?

The snake.

296 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:53:42pm

re: #277 MandyManners

Don't ratchet up a pun thread.

It's a lead pipe cinch someone was going to.

297 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:53:58pm

re: #285 Bloodnok

That was supposed to be funny?

Try harder.

And try to have 1/1000th the credibility of the person you are insulting.

This asshole has popped into thread before and made trashy remarks about Lizards and than ran. I don't think it's a Gecko, I think it's a chicken (shit).

298 looking closely  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:54:19pm

re: #271 Desert Dog

Well, he's lost the queer vote, that is for certain! (Mine too and I like women!)


Realistically, he never had it to begin with.

As to his personal view, however "wingnut" Joe the Plumber may be, there are a thousand times as many equally nutty leftist journalists to "counterbalance" him.

That doesn't excuse/justify his positions, nor do I agree with them, but I'm certainly not going to get worked up about them either.

299 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:54:20pm

re: #241 Charles

Meanwhile, a truly monumental kook has shown up in the Melanie Phillips thread.

I went over to take a look. At first I was going to disagree with you, because I thought you were referring to that "long live the 80's" person, who turned out to be kind of a dud.

Then I made it down to the bottom. Wow. You weren't kidding.

300 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:54:30pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

OT -

I just opened a can of Mandarin orange slices and on the can it says "in Mandarin orange juice." WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

I guess that could be to clarify that the orange slices weren't packed in water or syrup, like some fruits...you got me.

301 zoidberg  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #270 boofar

Instead they got the Vista of politics

HA!

C# is teh awesome...

Yes, yes it is.

302 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:01pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

OT -

I just opened a can of Mandarin orange slices and on the can it says "in Mandarin orange juice." WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

Yes.
And they want to be sure you don't sue them because you thought it would be packed in grapefruit juice, so they let you know up front that the mandarin oranges are packed in their own juice.

Sort of like the warning on the sides of kiddie pools, "This item is not intended for use as a personal flotation device".

303 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:11pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

OT -

I just opened a can of Mandarin orange slices and on the can it says "in Mandarin orange juice." WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

I didn't even know you could get orange slices in a can!

304 Dave the.....  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:15pm

Could it be some people are tired of the homo-fascists? Example....you can't be Miss America unless you speak out in favor of gay marriage.

305 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:19pm

re: #126 Ojoe

Thanks, that's cool!

306 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:23pm
307 looking closely  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:27pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

OT -

I just opened a can of Mandarin orange slices and on the can it says "in Mandarin orange juice." WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

It could be packed in simple syrup (ie sugar water) as many fruits are.

308 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:37pm

re: #282 ShanghaiEd

I would quibble with you on the Craig matter. The left didn't mock Craig for being gay, but for being an avid anti-gay, "family values" Republican legislator while privately cruising men's rooms. It's not a question of his sexuality, but of his monumental hypocrisy.

Dinged up because you're right. Point taken, and they were right to do so.

309 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:55:40pm

re: #217 Jim in Virginia

Interestingly, the Tulsa county platform did not call out Homosexuality specifically. It's problem, rather, is its explicitly religious nature. For example, they want the Bible used as a history text.

IMO, far and away the most grievous, and dare I say it, unAmerican bit coming out of OK was in the state platform draft, and it wasn't about homosexuality or Intelligent Design. Rather, it is this statement:

12. We believe that government should not fund any organization that opposes the ideas and principles contained in the Republican Platform.

Read that carefully and think about it.

Are we nation of laws, or are we a nation of fealty to a political party?

310 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:56:44pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

Some fruits (peaches come to mind) are packed in a white grape juice mix - perhaps that's why.

I love Mandarin oranges, though. In case you were wondering.

311 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:56:57pm

re: #293 Killian Bundy

The words "mommy issues" and misogyny come to mind every time I see that POS. If I ever see Olberdouche in person, I will spit on him.

312 Last Mohican  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:57:34pm

re: #310 ArmyWife

Some fruits (peaches come to mind) are packed in a white grape juice mix - perhaps that's why.

Peaches? Packed in a non-peach fruit juice?

Those bastards! What are they trying to pull?

313 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:57:41pm

re: #311 Desert Dog

The words "mommy issues" and misogyny come to mind every time I see that POS. If I ever see Olberdouche in person, I will spit on him.

DON'T BE LIKE GERALDO!

314 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:57:50pm

re: #298 looking closely

Realistically, he never had it to begin with.

As to his personal view, however "wingnut" Joe the Plumber may be, there are a thousand times as many equally nutty leftist journalists to "counterbalance" him.

That doesn't excuse/justify his positions, nor do I agree with them, but I'm certainly not going to get worked up about them either.

Joe has had his moment in the sun, it's time for him to ride off into the sunset

315 drogheda  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:58:08pm

re: #264 zoidberg

What a disgusting thing to say. Obviously these "friends" of his don't have much self respect to consider this wanker to be a "friend".

Or perhaps Joe the Plumber is one of those sorts who mistakes casual acquaintances for friends.

316 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:58:14pm

re: #303 sleepyone

I didn't even know you could get orange slices in a can!

Well, I can't, to hard to seal the cans, but, yes, I have a can of Kroger Mandarin orange peeled segments right here. Product of China. Probably has lead in the oranges.

317 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:58:19pm

JTP should have been a 1 trick pony.
Stick to the taxes issue. The issues of fairness ( or lack of ) in the tax code.
Stress the importance of hard work and realizing the American dream

and stop there.

I cringed when he was on FNC, and other media outlets discussing foreign policy, and everything under the sun.

we all have a right to our uneducated opinions, but that doesn't mean we need to express them on National Television.

He had a good angle on the taxes and hard work angle, but he was way over his head discussing other things.

and now he's just hurting the cause he tried to promote with his absolute stupidity and bigotry

Shut up Joe

318 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:59:10pm

re: #314 Desert Dog

Joe has had his moment in the sun, it's time for him to ride off into the sunset

It's time to put him back in the box and ship him back to Holland, Ohio. /

319 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:59:24pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Product of China. Probably has lead in the oranges.

And oranges in their lead. QC is a big problem over there, I tell you what.

320 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:59:50pm

re: #312 Last Mohican

Peaches? Packed in a non-peach fruit juice?

Those bastards! What are they trying to pull?

Big fruit is now on the list.

Chemtrails
DHS
Bohemian Grove
Cling Peaches

It's all starting to make sense now....

321 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:59:50pm

re: #304 Dave the.....

Don't you think that term is a little harsh with which to tar the entire community? Do they not have a right to petition to have their grievances heard? What about the Women's Suffrage movement? Where they fem-fascists?

322 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 7:59:55pm

re: #309 freetoken

Interestingly, the Tulsa county platform did not call out Homosexuality specifically. It's problem, rather, is its explicitly religious nature. For example, they want the Bible used as a history text.

IMO, far and away the most grievous, and dare I say it, unAmerican bit coming out of OK was in the state platform draft, and it wasn't about homosexuality or Intelligent Design. Rather, it is this statement:

Read that carefully and think about it.

Are we nation of laws, or are we a nation of fealty to a political party?

Sounds like they want one-party rule too, with THEM at the helm...dangerous stuff, and it will insure the GOP will continue to get the shit kicked out of it (even if this is a local party platform).

323 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:00:33pm

re: #310 ArmyWife

Some fruits (peaches come to mind) are packed in a white grape juice mix - perhaps that's why.

I love Mandarin oranges, though. In case you were wondering.

And I don't understand this one. Fruit jelly, which is just pure fruit, no added sugar or extra calories, are more expensive than regular fruit jelly with all kinds of extra fattening stuff.

Why more expensive?

You know, it's damn hard and pricey to try to eat good.

324 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:00:55pm

Totally off topic -
I spilled wine on a new shirt Saturday and my stepmother told me to get Carbona stain devils for wine - or just bring her the shirt and she would wash it. I should have selected that option because I bought the stain stuff and the instructions fell off the bottle. Anyone use this stuff? Anyone know what I'm supposed to do?

325 American Sabra  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:00:57pm

re: #282 ShanghaiEd

I would quibble with you on the Craig matter. The left didn't mock Craig for being gay, but for being an avid anti-gay, "family values" Republican legislator while privately cruising men's rooms. It's not a question of his sexuality, but of his monumental hypocrisy.

Indeed and there were others. Haggard for one (he added drugs too if I'm not mistaken). But I think most people caught on to that.

326 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:01:04pm

Why, I've laid more pipe in this town than Ron Jeremy at a nymphomaniac convention.

Stick to that one, Joe.

327 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:01:23pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Well, I can't, to hard to seal the cans, but, yes, I have a can of Kroger Mandarin orange peeled segments right here. Product of China. Probably has lead in the oranges.

Shit! I think between you and buzzsawmonkey I get the most laughs out of some lizardoid comments.

328 dwells38  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:01:34pm

re: #233 pittrader1988

I agree, but at the same time reasonable people can say they don't accept the notion of "queers", gay marriage, abortion.

If you are a devout Christian, I can see you having trouble with gays and gay marriage. I can see you having trouble with abortion.

Reasonable people can disagree on these points, and as long as one is not hysterical, I think it's pretty tough to find accommodation on them.

If you are pro choice, and I am pro life-there are not too many gray areas in between. Pro-gay marriage, anti-gay marriage, where is the compromise?

Pittrader I agee with you that people have a right to their opinions and Plumber Joe absolutely has a right to speak them. But we're just talking right and wrong here. I'm not sure I agree with gay marriage because it blurs things and could open the door for more bizarre unions that could merely represent an abuse of the institution.

But he clearly implied gays are abnormal people and can't be trusted around children. Based on what? All the science says these people can't help their sexual orientation which is obviously a complicated thing. It may be due to development or genetics or both. But there's no data that says a disproportionate number of gays are pedophiles that I'm aware of. Gays are 10% of any population so if I can't believe there are that many deviant pervs out there in addition to all the hetero pervs lurking out there too. I'd never let my kids out to ride their bikes if there were.

Anyway that's my beef. It just seems like an unnecessary slur and undermines his attempt to appear tolerant.

329 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:01:36pm

re: #323 Walter L. Newton

And I don't understand this one. Fruit jelly, which is just pure fruit, no added sugar or extra calories, are more expensive than regular fruit jelly with all kinds of extra fattening stuff.

Why more expensive?

You know, it's damn hard and pricey to try to eat good.

Industrial production has reduced the price of pectin, cane sugar, etc., far below the cost of fruit.

330 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:01:57pm

re: #324 ArmyWife

Totally off topic -
I spilled wine on a new shirt Saturday and my stepmother told me to get Carbona stain devils for wine - or just bring her the shirt and she would wash it. I should have selected that option because I bought the stain stuff and the instructions fell off the bottle. Anyone use this stuff? Anyone know what I'm supposed to do?

Check here - Carbona Stain Devils Instructions.

331 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:02:24pm

See the update above...

332 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:02:34pm

re: #321 Sharmuta

Don't you think that term is a little harsh with which to tar the entire community? Do they not have a right to petition to have their grievances heard? What about the Women's Suffrage movement? Where they fem-fascists?

Well, some would say that Rush smeared all feminists who did not fit into the GOP's notions of "womanhood" at that time as "feminazis".

333 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:02:42pm
334 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:02:55pm

re: #324 ArmyWife

Totally off topic -
I spilled wine on a new shirt Saturday and my stepmother told me to get Carbona stain devils for wine - or just bring her the shirt and she would wash it. I should have selected that option because I bought the stain stuff and the instructions fell off the bottle. Anyone use this stuff? Anyone know what I'm supposed to do?

If that don't do it, there's always Fels Naptha Soap - take the skin off yer hands, and the stains from your washing.

335 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:04pm

re: #324 ArmyWife

Anyone know what I'm supposed to do?


Drink more wine and you won't give a shit about the wine stain on your shirt.

336 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:05pm

re: #323 Walter L. Newton

And I don't understand this one. Fruit jelly, which is just pure fruit, no added sugar or extra calories, are more expensive than regular fruit jelly with all kinds of extra fattening stuff.

Why more expensive?

You know, it's damn hard and pricey to try to eat good.

Because fillers and extenders are cheaper than the fruit for the jelly....if it's all fruit, with nothing added like HFCS or pectin, then it's generally gonna cost more than your everyday jams or jellies.

/like you said, the good stuff is usually more expensive...

337 neoconkat  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:10pm

*Twitch* So tired of hearing "Founding Father's based the Constitution/Nation, etc... off Christian Values". Gah. Age of Enlightenment people, Deism, so on and so forth. /end frustration

338 Aye Pod  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:21pm

re: #241 Charles

Meanwhile, a truly monumental kook has shown up in the Melanie Phillips thread.

It's off it's trolley. Quite entertaining so far though.

339 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:23pm

re: #330 reine.de.tout

Tips

1. Use the formula that's right for your stain. Follow the instructions.
2. Because Stain Devils are individually formulated, stain removal instructions may change from formula to formula. Follow the directions printed on the label of the bottle you are using.

ARRGGHHHH! (Thanks for trying, though)

340 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:44pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

OT -

I just opened a can of Mandarin orange slices and on the can it says "in Mandarin orange juice." WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

Or snake urine?

Or dog slobber?

Or, or....


Bon appetite!

341 zoidberg  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:44pm

re: #317 Shug

Shut up Joe

Indeed. He should've quit whilst he was ahead.

342 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:46pm

That's almost as nuts as what Joe "The Sheriff" Biden said about taking precautions over the swine flu. Course, that Joe is one heart beat away from being President. oh well.....

343 AMER1CAN  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:52pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

OT -

I just opened a can of Mandarin orange slices and on the can it says "in Mandarin orange juice." WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

To know what it's packed in, one must first know where it was made. If you say China, then all bets are off it's even juice or even edible.

No but seriously, getting back on topic, I have seen tuna packed in oil and that seemed weird. I always get tuna in spring water. Always.

344 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:03:57pm

re: #331 Charles

See the update above...

Fifty-fucking-million diings, Charles!

345 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:17pm

re: #240 idioma
During the 2000 campaign, who was it who mentioned that Dick Cheney's Daughter was gay, during a Presidential debate?
(Hint: not the Republican)

346 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:17pm

re: #340 The Shadow Do

Or snake urine?

Or dog slobber?

Or, or....

Bon appetite!

Don't be silly! Do you have any idea how much snake whizz and dog drool cost?

347 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:33pm

Okay, Joe the plumber is way past his prime and he used the slur "queer", very bad.

Youtube Video

/now, where's the moral outrage over this prime time garbage?

348 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:34pm
349 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:39pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Well, I can't, to hard to seal the cans, but, yes, I have a can of Kroger Mandarin orange peeled segments right here. Product of China. Probably has lead in the oranges.

Speaking of oranges, does anyone remember the

Oranges Smoranges

of the outrageous H.R. Puffenstuff's Witchipoo?

350 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:41pm

re: #331 Charles

None of them, Meghan McCain included, speak for me.

351 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:42pm

re: #332 MandyManners

Well, some would say that Rush smeared all feminists who did not fit into the GOP's notions of "womanhood" at that time as "feminazis".

Remember that morning on an open thread we had to defend feminism? It's hard when you have to battle both the left and the right on such an issue. The "feminists" on the left don't speak for me, but I don't need the right bashing me too. They marginalize the real issues for women when they do that.

352 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:04:43pm

re: #324 ArmyWife

Totally off topic -
I spilled wine on a new shirt Saturday and my stepmother told me to get Carbona stain devils for wine - or just bring her the shirt and she would wash it. I should have selected that option because I bought the stain stuff and the instructions fell off the bottle. Anyone use this stuff? Anyone know what I'm supposed to do?

SHOOT YER SHIRT.

353 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:05:16pm
Sit down Joe, don't let em see ya

/ Biden

354 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:05:36pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

Remember that morning on an open thread we had to defend feminism? It's hard when you have to battle both the left and the right on such an issue. The "feminists" on the left don't speak for me, but I don't need the right bashing me too. They marginalize the real issues for women when they do that.

It's hard treading water from two rivers.

355 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:05:43pm

Comment from Hot Air.....

We are all gay now. Or we are all plumbers now. Or whatever.


Heh

356 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:05:45pm

re: #324 ArmyWife

Totally off topic -
I spilled wine on a new shirt Saturday and my stepmother told me to get Carbona stain devils for wine - or just bring her the shirt and she would wash it. I should have selected that option because I bought the stain stuff and the instructions fell off the bottle. Anyone use this stuff? Anyone know what I'm supposed to do?

Get WINEAWAY! [Link: www.wineaway.com...]

357 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:05:46pm

re: #331 Charles

See the update above...

To quote Lawrence from Office Space, "Fuckin' A!"

;-P

358 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:05:54pm

re: #313 MandyManners

DON'T BE LIKE GERALDO!

OR WE'll LOCK YOU IN AL CAPONE'S VAULT!

///

359 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:06:11pm

re: #354 MandyManners

It's hard treading water from two rivers.

Ommmmmmmmm......

360 zoidberg  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:06:18pm

re: #315 drogheda

Or perhaps Joe the Plumber is one of those sorts who mistakes casual acquaintances for friends.

Hey, he met Obama once that I know of. Maybe he thinks Obama's one of his closest friends even though Big O's a leftist (I wonder if he lets leftists near his children?).

361 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:06:19pm

re: #342 Afton

That's almost as nuts as what Joe "The Sheriff" Biden said about taking precautions over the swine flu. Course, that Joe is one heart beat away from being President. oh well.....

If Joe does somehow become President, we will just tell him that Obama was storing big vats of Swine Flu in the Oval office and he won't go near the place

362 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:06:26pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

Remember that morning on an open thread we had to defend feminism? It's hard when you have to battle both the left and the right on such an issue. The "feminists" on the left don't speak for me, but I don't need the right bashing me too. They marginalize the real issues for women when they do that.

Are you Christina Hoff Sommers, by any chance? If so, I had a drink with you back in '95.

363 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:06:31pm

re: #339 ArmyWife

ARRGGHHHH! (Thanks for trying, though)

Amazon product page has this review:

I had a table cloth with a large berry cobler stain and red wine stains. The table cloth didn't get wash for several days after the party. I tried spray and wash, shout, biz bleach. Nothing worked. I soaked it in Carbona overnight, washed it in hot water and the stain came out! I could not believe it.
364 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:07:06pm

re: #324 ArmyWife

Soak the whole shirt in wine, then wash. All will be even.

/

365 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:07:11pm
366 stevedecatur  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:07:21pm

I hate the self appointed morality enforcement wing of the Republican party. Anything akin to the morality police of Saudi Arabia, Gaza, Iran, Afghanistan etc is the exact opposite of America should be doing.

367 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:07:26pm

If only Joe the Plumber would take some lessons in political correctness from Al Franken!

368 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:07:26pm

re: #346 Guanxi88

Don't be silly! Do you have any idea how much snake whizz and dog drool cost?

Wll, not as much as slug slime I think!

369 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:07:34pm

re: #331 Charles

See the update above...

Yep, right on cue, Skeletor chimes in.

370 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:08:03pm

re: #364 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Soak the whole shirt in wine, then wash. All will be even.

/

That is a terrible waste of wine....just drink enough wine until you do not care there's a stain

371 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:08:10pm

re: #368 The Shadow Do

Wll, not as much as slug slime I think!

The raw material's cheap, but it's the labor that'll cost you. Those guys are union.

372 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:08:41pm

re: #366 stevedecatur

JTP isn't a Republican anything, and morality never hurt anyone. It's the bigotry that is at issue here.

373 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:08:55pm

re: #362 Guanxi88

Are you Christina Hoff Sommers, by any chance? If so, I had a drink with you back in '95.

LOL! Nope- not me.

374 wiffersnapper  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:09:11pm

Gotta love to hate Alan Colmes for making all these broad stroke remarks about conservatives. Stay classy, Alan.

375 Lynn B.  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:09:20pm

Ok, just checked in after a nutso day followed by a wonderful dinner and (need I say) some damned good wine.

WTF?

I'm trying to convince my dad that he should browse outside the confines of the Democratic party where he's never been that comfortable and yet ... and yet W.T.F.?

So Joe The Plumber was either a leftie plant or just a plain old unambiguous bigot/ass. Not a great surprise, I guess. Either way ... pass. (And his "journalism" left a lot to be desired.)

Well, I guess I go read this thread now...

376 nyc redneck  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:09:22pm

re: #317 Shug

JTP should have been a 1 trick pony.
Stick to the taxes issue. The issues of fairness ( or lack of ) in the tax code.
Stress the importance of hard work and realizing the American dream

and stop there.

I cringed when he was on FNC, and other media outlets discussing foreign policy, and everything under the sun.

we all have a right to our uneducated opinions, but that doesn't mean we need to express them on National Television.

He had a good angle on the taxes and hard work angle, but he was way over his head discussing other things.

and now he's just hurting the cause he tried to promote with his absolute stupidity and bigotry

Shut up Joe

that sums it up perfectly.
someone should have known when to stop treating him like he had something relevant to say. his initial exchange w/o did not make him an instant expert
on everything. too bad he had no self awareness. these comments abt. gay
people are just absurd.

377 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:09:34pm

re: #371 Guanxi88

The raw material's cheap, but it's the labor that'll cost you. Those guys are union.

I gonna stop, I'm grossing myself out.

378 Guanxi88  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:09:48pm

re: #373 Sharmuta

LOL! Nope- not me.

Well, you might want to take a look at her "Who Stole Feminism?" book; a kindred spirit.

379 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:09:53pm

re: #374 wiffersnapper

Gotta love to hate Alan Colmes for making all these broad stroke remarks about conservatives. Stay classy, Alan.

He's as sharp as a razor, that Alan Combs.....a dull, rusted and worn out razor

380 Aye Pod  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:10:09pm

I figured Joe the Plumber was a no-no when I saw him advertise that dodgy 'give us a dollar and we'll save you from unfair tax forever' phone vote thing.

381 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:10:42pm

re: #366 stevedecatur

I hate the self appointed morality enforcement wing of the Republican party. Anything akin to the morality police of Saudi Arabia, Gaza, Iran, Afghanistan etc is the exact opposite of America should be doing.

Now, let's not forget how the Nazis and the Commies treated homosexuals. And, Gypsies. And, Slavs. And, Jews.

The truth is that humanity has an innate fear of "The Other".

382 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:11:07pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

WTF, do they think I thought they would be packed in grapefruit juice?

I'm surprised its not high fructose corn syrup.

383 AMER1CAN  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:11:10pm

Waaay OT - Charles, I was just curious if there is any LGF app for the iphone in the works? Perhaps a way to view and post comments? Have you played with the API much?

384 drogheda  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:11:21pm
re: #358 Dark_Falcon
re: #313 MandyManners

DON'T BE LIKE GERALDO!

OR WE'll LOCK YOU IN AL CAPONE'S VAULT!

///

Well that would certainly make it less disappointing the next time it is unsealed.

385 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:11:26pm

re: #331 Charles

See the update above...

The remarks on gays - guy might as well wear an "I'm an idiot" sign as far as I'm concerned. Them's fighten' words, as it were. Still, Skeletor can bite me. In his dreams.

386 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:11:41pm

re: #381 MandyManners

Now, let's not forget how the Nazis and the Commies treated homosexuals. And, Gypsies. And, Slavs. And, Jews.

The truth is that humanity has an innate fear of "The Other".

Very true.

387 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:12:00pm

Ok, well, you guys are just no help at all for Carbona Stain Devils instructions. I'll follow TFK's advice (because I have ice handy) and tomorrow I will AGAIN schlep to the store and read the directions, all the while the wine will be taking hold of the fibers of my shirt.

I shall email Carbona and tell them their website is useless. I will forgive them if they develop Carbona Stain Devils #15 - horse boogers.

388 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:12:11pm

re: #370 Desert Dog

That is a terrible waste of wine....just drink enough wine until you do not care there's a stain

Well, she could use Boone's Farm.

389 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:12:35pm

Mandarin oranges packed in frog diarrhea.

/now I'll stop

390 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:13:01pm

re: #378 Guanxi88

Well, you might want to take a look at her "Who Stole Feminism?" book; a kindred spirit.

I will look into it- thank you!

391 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:13:22pm

Does anyone here like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with dill pickles on the side like I do?

392 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:13:31pm

Okay. My Kimber is cleaned. What happened?

393 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:13:55pm

OT- just got word from Dianna, who is stuck with dial-up at her mother's, so she's unable to join us. She sends her love, and will be back as soon as she gets some business settled.

394 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:14:07pm

re: #388 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Well, she could use Boone's Farm.

Boone's Farm is not even fit for human consumption, unless your stated goal is to get shitfaced from the get-go...

/must I?

395 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:14:12pm

re: #189 HelloDare

Yep. That's about right. I love the Federalist Papers. They guide my understanding of what America should be. God may be a distant background to (some of) those who wrote them, but he certainly wasn't front and center. Greek and Roman ideals guided their thoughts. And that's OK! It's government they were after and not God's kingdom.

396 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:14:20pm

re: #347 Killian Bundy

Okay, Joe the plumber is way past his prime and he used the slur "queer", very bad.

Youtube Video

/now, where's the moral outrage over this prime time garbage?

No one?

/guess Bonkeys get a pass on disgusting filth

397 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:14:22pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone here like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with dill pickles on the side like I do?

just eeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwww....

ewwwwwwwwww......

now PBJ and bacon, that's another story

398 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:14:24pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

I hate jelly. HATE IT. Gross. Gross. GROSS.

Peanut butter and nutella on the other hand...

399 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:14:43pm

re: #306 taxfreekiller

Cars by Fiat and Government by Fiat.

3 : an authoritative or arbitrary order : decree

400 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:14:53pm

Joe, please follow Britney and Paris...exit stage left!

401 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:15:12pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

No.

402 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:15:20pm
403 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:15:22pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone here like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with dill pickles on the side like I do?

Elvis, is that you ?

Are you really alive?

404 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:15:40pm

re: #400 jorline

Joe, please follow Britney and Paris...exit stage left!

There's a 'Simple Life' spin-off potential there.

405 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #328 dwells38

Pittrader I agee with you that people have a right to their opinions and Plumber Joe absolutely has a right to speak them. But we're just talking right and wrong here. I'm not sure I agree with gay marriage because it blurs things and could open the door for more bizarre unions that could merely represent an abuse of the institution.

But he clearly implied gays are abnormal people and can't be trusted around children. Based on what?


When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

406 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:16:40pm

re: #399 Mich-again

Fiat money.

407 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:17:34pm

re: #198 Guanxi88

One of my favorite movies of all time!

408 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:17:35pm

re: #402 taxfreekiller

#391
not me but ms tfk ate that the whole time she was pregnant...

Interesting, I don't think I'm pregnant.

409 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:17:51pm

re: #404 Sharmuta

There's a 'Simple Life' spin-off potential there.

Nobody ever asks a plumber if he wears boxers or briefs.

410 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:17:57pm

re: #394 talon_262

Boone's Farm is not even fit for human consumption, unless your stated goal is to get shitfaced from the get-go...

/must I?

I'm sorry to hear that, because there were a couple of years somewhere when there was a bottle of it attached permanently to my hand.

411 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:17:58pm

re: #345 NelsFree

John Edwards. You can certainly make the argument that family of politicians should be off-limits, many would agree. Aside from that however, the sentiment was correct: It was the religious right who pushed the idea that homosexuality is a choice, rather than genetic. It was Republicans who utilized the "family values" tactic. Gay marriage was no small issue in the 2004 campaign. Assuming Dick Cheney embodies these sentiments, shouldn't his daughter's homosexuality be an issue? If i'm a politician and I want to campaign on "let's crack down on drug users" I'd first make damn sure my children aren't using drugs.

412 captdiggs  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:18:05pm

Joe's about an hour beyond his 15 minutes of fame.

413 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:18:24pm

re: #404 Sharmuta

There's a 'Simple Life' spin-off potential there.

Now there isn't. Paris and Britney at least look good. Joe didn't have looks, but I thought he had common sense. I guess I was wrong.

414 solomonpanting  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:18:24pm
Who on the right, in addition to Meghan McCain, will stand up and say this guy doesn’t speak for them?

I will.
Now, who on the left in addition to...uh...will stand up and say Bill Ayers or Jimmy Carter doesn't speak for them?

415 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:18:37pm

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear.

416 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:18:38pm

re: #396 Killian Bundy

No one?

/guess Bonkeys get a pass on disgusting filth

Olbermann's a POS - he's the most vile, uneducated, moronic excuse of a newsman on cable - my guess is that he's old news and it doesn't sell any newspapers anymore to point out his scum-like behavior.

417 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:18:48pm

re: #396 Killian Bundy

You know and I know that the left doesn't care about bigotry, they only say they do. It's only the rare voice that speaks against when uttered on the left. Just today TNR published an article on one of the potential Obama picks for the Supreme court who's a woman and minority through ethnicity as well and they basically said that she's overbearing and just not that smart...

If anyone in conservative circles had written the article then the packs would be hot on the scent and howling for blood.

418 Aye Pod  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:18:56pm

OT : my 'entry' in the Renaissance Cartoon competition from the earlier thread:

Image: boschcartman.jpg

Apologies to a Mr H. Bosch

419 idioma  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:19:17pm

re: #345 NelsFree

If being gay didn't matter to Republican voters, it wouldn't have been effective or worth mentioning either.

Look, dirty fighting looks bad from either side.

My point is this: The Democrats are going to win by default when the alternative party make ridiculous claims about god and country. The GOP promises to "bring America back to it's christian roots", and that should scare you. The Democrats haven't improved in any way, they don't need to. They can just sit tight and let the GOP dig deeper, sink lower, until they become the party of none.

If you thought a two party system has problems, just wait until your choice is between cake and death.

420 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:19:47pm

re: #403 Shug

Elvis, is that you ? Are you really alive?

I was just wondering. I like a number of odd food combinations. Like cottage cheese with wine vinegar.

421 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:07pm

re: #394 talon_262

Boones farm strawberry Hill was my wine of choice in High School. .99 cents Per bottle.

422 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:19pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

So what you are saying, is that they did not manage to turn you into teh ghey ? You really think a straight person could be convinced to be gay?

423 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:20pm

re: #393 Sharmuta

OT- just got word from Dianna, who is stuck with dial-up at her mother's, so she's unable to join us. She sends her love, and will be back as soon as she gets some business settled.

GOOD!

424 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:25pm

re: #419 idioma

just wait until your choice is between cake and death.


I like cake.

425 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:35pm

re: #399 Mich-again

Cars by Fiat and Government by Fiat.

Fix
It
Again
Tony

426 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:44pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

How old where his friends? Also, did you ever stop and think about what your straight friend was really about being that those two guys were his friends?

427 Racer X  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:46pm

Joe The Dumber™

428 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:48pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

It's going to be a real shocka for you if it turns out one of your children is gay.

429 ArmyWife  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:20:56pm

I'm going to bed. Remember to have patience with those who share misguided thoughts and opinions. Educate, inform, THEN whack. Politely.

430 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:21:08pm

Were that is.

PIMF

431 dwells38  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:21:14pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone here like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with dill pickles on the side like I do?

No dude. I go straight for the sliced dill pickles and lay them right on the peanut butter. And slap on the lid (top bread slice, that is). YUM! Jelly doesn't enter into it.

432 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:21:27pm

OT:

Over the weekend I saw two vehicles (SUV and truck) with Palin 2012 stickers on the back. This is in Central North Carolina.

433 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:21:44pm

re: #407 Irenicum

One of my favorite movies of all time!

Excellent taste in movies!

434 Aye Pod  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:21:52pm

Night folks:)

435 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:15pm

re: #422 BryanS

So what you are saying, is that they did not manage to turn you into teh ghey ? You really think a straight person could be convinced to be gay?

I think it is possible that an insecure teenager could be seduced and then told: Once you go gay, you can never go away!

436 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:32pm

Wow, I just synced photos onto my ipod and ended up taking six gig of space...

437 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:34pm

Can you imagine how much it sucks to be Robert Gibbs?

I just can't. I'd rather be Andy Gibb.

Or Maurice Gibb.

Just must suck to be him.

Iron Fist Rule. G'night!

438 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:37pm

re: #220 SasquatchOnSteroids

Amen!

439 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:47pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

What does your story have to do with supporting gay marriage (or not)?

440 pittrader1988  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:47pm

re: #248 Walter L. Newton

No, I don't agree with his remarks. I thought calling gays queer went out years ago-but then you have a successful program called Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, and you have to wonder if "queer" becomes a word like "n*****". Only those that are within the segment can use it. I noticed in the movie Milk, it was sometimes used as a term of affection.

I know people that were young in the 1950's still call them queers, so while that word might unsettle me, it doesn't make others blink.

As the the Constitution, in my opinion there is a fine line between God and the Constitution. I think that the Founding Fathers were Christians. People can quibble about Deists, etc; but if we put our breeches and wigs on and went back into time, I think we would find basically a Christian country. I think that the Constitution espouses basic Christian values that work for a modern society. That's where it ends for me(and the founders too I think). There should be absolute separation of church and state.

Gay marriage to me is not possible. I don't think a marriage is anything more than a religious contract. We both can interpret the Bible in different ways like lawyers parsing words to find where God sanctioned or didn't sanction marriage for the same sex.

However, civil unions are another matter. This is man's law, and we can determine what ever we want. After all, we have seen tyrants come and go, and they did things under their law that would be an offensive to a Christian(or any other religious person).

Under the guise of civil unions, I can accept gays getting together. If my church decided to sanction religious ceremonies in it, I would leave the church.

I think that there is room for everyone if we follow the precepts of limited government, personal freedom, property rights, and equal opportunity for all.
Create a vibrant economic environment where people have an opportunity to get ahead, and a lot of these social issues go away (like abortion)

I think that statistically, it has been shown that two parent marriages (opposite sex) provide for the best outcomes for kids. I would grant anyone that gays raising children have not been around long enough, or do not have a large enough statistical sample to make any inferences about them. But, once you do have a large enough sample-if kids that came from traditional marriage do significantly statistically better than kids raised by gay parents-what do you do?

If it was statistically proven, would you let traditional marriage people adopt before gay couples because it was better for society as a whole?

Joe didn't talk about this, but the other hot button is abortion. With regard to abortion, I don't think that we can play God. But we can say that human life is significant, and that it's important. So, federally funding abortions seems like a really bad idea to me. Banning late term abortions seems like a good idea to me. But banning abortion in the first trimester, and especially in cases where the life of the mother is in danger, rape, incest seem wrong as well. I think that what most people want is not to see abortion as birth control.

So, I empathize with Joe, even though I don't agree with him. After reading a lot about Jack Kemp, I think that might be the model of the Republican party we ought to be trying to go for. Don't know how he felt about gay marriage, but he was certainly pro-life.

Many very difficult questions.

441 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:54pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

Interesting, sounds like you had a close call. I was homosexually raped at 11. Took a while to sort that one out. But I did. I am now a proponent of gay unions and am finding myself leaning to the gay marriage proposition.

Good thing, I found out just last year that my younger daughter is gay. I thought she had an unnatural curiosity on my take on the subject before I became aware. Glad now that I didn't go all pedantic on her.

442 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:22:57pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

LOCK YER KIDS UP IN YER BASEMENT!

443 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:23:04pm

re: #421 BatGuano

Crab Apple Cove, baby!

444 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:23:05pm

re: #417 Thanos

You know and I know that the left doesn't care about bigotry, they only say they do. It's only the rare voice that speaks against when uttered on the left. Just today TNR published an article on one of the potential Obama picks for the Supreme court who's a woman and minority through ethnicity as well and they basically said that she's overbearing and just not that smart...

If anyone in conservative circles had written the article then the packs would be hot on the scent and howling for blood.

Thanks for pointing that out - it would be nice to see those kinds of stories hit the light of day once in awhile. Makes you wonder when nearly 20 hours has been spent on Miss California on MSNBC the past two weeks and yet, not a single word about whether Charles Rangel is going to get thrown out of office or not.

445 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:23:53pm

Why is Allen Colems relevant at all now that he's no longer on H&C playing Hannity's foil? He was always a joke to the left before just for appearing on Fox and I'm assuming nobody on the right had much fondness for him.

446 AMER1CAN  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:23:54pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone here like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with dill pickles on the side like I do?

What about a cantelope with cottage cheese in the center?re: #418 Jimmah

Nicely done! Any Family Guy artwork laying around?

447 stuck in california  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:24:38pm

Bumper sticker?
[Link: stargazerdesigns.net...]

448 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:25:00pm

re: #420 Walter L. Newton

I was just wondering. I like a number of odd food combinations. Like cottage cheese with wine vinegar.

When I was a kid I used to eat cottage cheese with dried Jello-O powder mixed into it.

449 altermite  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:25:15pm

re: #421 BatGuano

Boones farm strawberry Hill was my wine of choice in High School. .99 cents Per bottle.

Boone's farm runs at 3-4 dollars a bottle where I'm at. I discovered strawberry hill this march- wasn't terribly impressed, but the value wasn't easily beat.

450 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:25:23pm

re: #435 Alouette

I think it is possible that an insecure teenager could be seduced and then told: Once you go gay, you can never go away!

Really? I just don't think that happens.

451 MandyManners  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:25:44pm

re: #437 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can you imagine how much it sucks to be Robert Gibbs?

I just can't. I'd rather be Andy Gibb.
Or Maurice Gibb.

Just must suck to be him.

Iron Fist Rule. G'night!

HE'S DEAD.

452 pittrader1988  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:25:45pm

re: #405 NelsFree

I agree, gays are not at all a danger to kids!

But I am beginning to favor the death penalty for child molesters.

453 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:25:54pm

re: #417 Thanos

You know and I know that the left doesn't care about bigotry, they only say they do. It's only the rare voice that speaks against when uttered on the left. Just today TNR published an article on one of the potential Obama picks for the Supreme court who's a woman and minority through ethnicity as well and they basically said that she's overbearing and just not that smart...

If anyone in conservative circles had written the article then the packs would be hot on the scent and howling for blood.

/my point is why is a "Joe the Plumber" slur in an obscure Christian newspaper article newsworthy and a ten times+ more disgusting prime time MSNBC rant on pretty much the same subject not?

454 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:26:48pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

You stole my line!

455 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:27:08pm

OMG, just read the update. Alan Colmes? ALAN COLMES? This man actually has the nerve to ask someone to stand up against this? That's a bit like Charles Manson asking someone to speak out against Jim Jones.

456 sleepyone  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:27:17pm

Well, gotta go and finish watching the Sox/Yankees game. The Yankees are getting too close for comfort.

457 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:27:29pm

re: #449 altermite

That's why it was so popular when I was in high school. Cheap and you could get a buzz.

458 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:27:49pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone here like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with dill pickles on the side like I do?

Oh. My. God.

Bleh.

459 Bloodnok  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:28:00pm

re: #451 MandyManners

HE'S DEAD.

So is Maurice.

460 Racer X  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:28:10pm

re: #126 Ojoe

The low light of evening upon the snow telescope. The Towercam, in the San Gabriel Mountains of California. Pacific time zone.

Keep watching for the sunset, it will be along in a while.

BBL

Ooh, looky now!

461 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:28:20pm

re: #428 Catttt

It's going to be a real shocka for you if it turns out one of your children is gay.

The real shocka, Cattttt, would be if you knew anything about my family to make any informed judgement on them. I shall not deduce anything about your family based on posts here. I shall not sit in judgement of your family, either. I believe an apology (rather than a flamewar) is in order.

462 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:28:24pm

re: #458 Occasional Reader

Oh. My. God.

Bleh.

Are you alright?

463 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:28:57pm

re: #440 pittrader1988

Gay marriage to me is not possible. I don't think a marriage is anything more than a religious contract. We both can interpret the Bible in different ways like lawyers parsing words to find where God sanctioned or didn't sanction marriage for the same sex.

I'm an atheist. Can I get married or should that be banned?

464 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:28:59pm

re: #461 NelsFree

The real shocka, Cattttt, would be if you knew anything about my family to make any informed judgement on them. I shall not deduce anything about your family based on posts here. I shall not sit in judgement of your family, either. I believe an apology (rather than a flamewar) is in order.

She makes a good point.

465 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:29:17pm

re: #462 Walter L. Newton

Are you alright?

Dill pickles, in and of themselves, are Satan's turds.

And with a PBJ? Bleh.

466 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:29:30pm

re: #451 MandyManners

(Maurice is dead, too.)

467 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:30:03pm

re: #452 pittrader1988

I agree, gays are not at all a danger to kids!

But I am beginning to favor the death penalty for child molesters.

Don't kid yourself. Every adult is a danger to kids. Only you know your heart and maybe those of your immediate family.

468 altermite  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:30:07pm

re: #461 NelsFree

I'm sorry, I don't think she was insulting your family. Gay doesn't hold a negative connotation for everyone.

469 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:30:10pm

Peanut butter and jelly with pickles isn't bad at all. I used to fry onions in vaseline.

470 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:30:24pm

re: #461 NelsFree

The real shocka, Cattttt, would be if you knew anything about my family to make any informed judgement on them. I shall not deduce anything about your family based on posts here. I shall not sit in judgement of your family, either. I believe an apology (rather than a flamewar) is in order.

Surely you jest. I stand on my statement.

471 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:30:57pm

Can anyone tell me where in the Constitution it specifically states that the Federal Government...at ANY level...can determine whether gays and/or lesbians have the right to marry?
Joe IS right about one thing: this issue belongs with the states and/or the PEOPLE.

Tenth Amendment:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

/crickets

472 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #453 Killian Bundy

/my point is why is a "Joe the Plumber" slur in an obscure Christian newspaper article newsworthy and a ten times+ more disgusting prime time MSNBC rant on pretty much the same subject not?

Sure the MSNBC rant was far worse. However, that Village Voice journalist doesn't speak for the a political party on a near official manner and speaks as a private figure due to his obscurity. Joe the Plumber went to CPAC and was on the campaign trail last year and is essentially a public figure speaking on behalf of conservatives.

473 ronsfi  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:31:33pm

He doesn't speak for me either. Tool.

474 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:31:44pm

Why does the anti-gay crowd insist that "queers" are trying to recruit their kids?

475 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:31:50pm

re: #463 Conservative Moonbat

I'm an atheist. Can I get married or should that be banned?

Considering that you have the superior intellect of being an atheist, surely you have the smarts not to want to get married!

/

476 gmsc  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:32:16pm

Our Genius President: 'Happy Cuatro de Cinco!'

I like to note these little incidents when they happen, not because I think it makes Obama an idiot because he occasionally stumbles over his words, but because his somewhat overblown reputation as the most cerebral, eloquent, utterly erudite president of all time could really use a pricking every now and then.

Also, because if Bush had made such a blunder, it would have been the basis of a four-part MSNBC investigative series on the malapropism's deleterious effects on the Republican Party's attempts to woo Hispanic voters, Mexican-American relations, and our "place in the world."

So, Obama, I will not turn your tendency to mispeak (and, then reprimand your Teleprompter) into an international incident, but I will note it with some glee:

On the eve of the Mexican holiday, Obama on Monday had an event in the East Room of the White House with Mexico's Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan (sahr-oo-KHAN').

Obama joked that it was "Cinco de Cuatro," botching a play on the Spanish word for "four" when he meant to say "Cuatro de Mayo," or the Fourth of May. He tried again, but he still did not get it right.

This from a unilingual man who's embarrassed that more of us can't speak French. If only he were as conversant in Spanish as he is in noted non-language "Austrian," this wouldn't have happened.

477 idioma  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:32:27pm

In many ways, fear of gays has a stronger footing than fear of race.

Even when fear of the black man was all the rage, most everyone was not afraid that somehow a black man would turn their kids black too.

It's a long road ahead.

478 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:32:43pm

re: #463 Conservative Moonbat

I'm an atheist. Can I get married or should that be banned?

I missed that nugget from the post you were replying to, and I agree with your sentiment. If marriage were truly just a religious matter, then what business does the government have getting involved?

479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #475 Afton

Afton Mountain?

480 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:32:58pm

re: #465 Occasional Reader

Dill pickles, in and of themselves, are Satan's turds.

And with a PBJ? Bleh.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... don't ever say that to an ex-New Yorker. Dill pickles rule.

When I crossed the border into texas for the first time, when I was moving to Dallas, I stopped at a "cafe" (up north we called that a dinner), and on the table was a bucket of small sliced pickles. Hot mother fucking pickle I ever had. No, they were jalapenos peppers.

I thought it was a bottomless pickle bucket like we had in the dinners up north.

Cultural differences are fun.

481 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:32:59pm

re: #471 Macker

Can anyone tell me where in the Constitution it specifically states that the Federal Government...at ANY level...can determine whether gays and/or lesbians have the right to marry?

It doesn't specifically state a lot of things.

482 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:33:24pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Sure the MSNBC rant was far worse. However, that Village Voice journalist doesn't speak for the a political party on a near official manner and speaks as a private figure due to his obscurity. Joe the Plumber went to CPAC and was on the campaign trail last year and is essentially a public figure speaking on behalf of conservatives.

If you don't think Keith Olbermann speaks for the Democrat party then you are either loco or you're the only one in America that doesn't.

483 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:33:41pm

re: #481 Million Dollar Man

It doesn't specifically state a lot of things.

EXACTLY MY POINT. The Feds have to shut the fuck up and let the states decide!

484 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:33:54pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Sure the MSNBC rant was far worse. However, that Village Voice journalist doesn't speak for the a political party on a near official manner and speaks as a private figure due to his obscurity. Joe the Plumber went to CPAC and was on the campaign trail last year and is essentially a public figure speaking on behalf of conservatives.

Lots of fools grabbing for the Republican megaphone these days...

485 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:34:13pm

re: #482 Afton

If you don't think Keith Olbermann speaks for the Democrat party then you are either loco or you're the only one in America that doesn't.

Apples and oranges.

486 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:34:20pm

re: #476 gmsc

Geez. Even I can speak enough Spanish to tell the gardeners to stop hacking my rose bush up.

487 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:34:21pm

re: #477 idioma

In many ways, fear of gays has a stronger footing than fear of race.

Even when fear of the black man was all the rage, most everyone was not afraid that somehow a black man would turn their kids black too.

It's a long road ahead.

Actually, with the prevalence of rap music in pop culture, I imagine some parents are afraid of that.

488 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:34:49pm

re: #471 Macker

Can anyone tell me where in the Constitution it specifically states that the Federal Government...at ANY level...can determine whether gays and/or lesbians have the right to marry?
Joe IS right about one thing: this issue belongs with the states and/or the PEOPLE.

Tenth Amendment:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

/crickets

Perhaps the libtards on the left could learn an appreciation for the limited powers on the federal governments?... Nahhh!

489 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:34:55pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Sure the MSNBC rant was far worse. However, that Village Voice journalist doesn't speak for the a political party on a near official manner and speaks as a private figure due to his obscurity. Joe the Plumber went to CPAC and was on the campaign trail last year and is essentially a public figure speaking on behalf of conservatives.

That's debatable.

/just looking for equal time

490 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:35:38pm

re: #453 Killian Bundy

I can't answer why the MSNBC story is not newsworthy, but I can tell you why Joe the Plumber's comment was - Joe the Plumber was a major piece of the latter part of John McCain's campaign. My memory needs to be refreshed - how many times did Sarah Palin, VP candidate and until recently, conservative star, mention his name? Wasn't it Hot Air who was promoting him rather heavily not too long ago. If you are a conservative, it is very hard to now claim unfair that his comments are receiving undue attention.

491 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:35:45pm

re: #487 Million Dollar Man

You can replace any/all lyrics from a Rap song with the following two words, "Motherfucker! Cocksucker!' Rinse and repeat.
How original is THAT.

492 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:35:54pm

re: #453 Killian Bundy

Hey, you do have a blog Killian.

493 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:35:55pm

re: #485 Gus 802

Apples and oranges.

/so which is worse, apples or oranges?

494 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:36:02pm

re: #429 ArmyWife

I'm going to bed. Remember to have patience with those who share misguided thoughts and opinions. Educate, inform, THEN whack. Politely.

Excellent advice, AW. I hope to emulate that process. I shall also forgive them. One thing I have learned in life is that people cannot hurt my feelings unless I ALLOW them to hurt my feelings.
Caaatttttttt, you have not hurt my feelings. Please be more considerate when someone opens up with a sincere experience that could have had damaging repurcussions.

495 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:36:05pm

re: #480 Walter L. Newton

I love dill pickles. You are not alone.

NOT with peanut butter and jelly sandwichs, though. :D

I do like Campbell's beans mixed with cottage cheese, though.

496 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:36:12pm

re: #492 Thanos

Hey, you do have a blog Killian.

/and?

497 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:36:26pm

re: #471 Macker

Can anyone tell me where in the Constitution it specifically states that the Federal Government...at ANY level...can determine whether gays and/or lesbians have the right to marry?

It doesn't, which of course means one of two things will eventually occur:
(1) An amendment will be added that explicitly calls for not allowing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation;
(2) The SCOTUS will determine that, in some specific instance or another, a certain right ("pursuit of happiness" ?) is being infringed upon when a certain states refuses to grant a marriage license to a gay couple.

498 ASU86PE  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:36:36pm

re: #425 Desert Dog

F redom's
O n
R oad
D evices

No TARP - No Fascist Demands - No Double Taxation!

499 jelo  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:36:48pm

re: #287 The Sanity Inspector

In the preamble of what you posted, she (Lisa Ling?) said; "anger at the occupation" as a matter of fact. She (Lisa) did not clarify that the term "occupation" was her subject's point of view but stated it as common fact!
So therefor, the observer of this video will tend to be sympathetic to the cause to fight "occupation"!

500 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:37:11pm

re: #453 Killian Bundy

/my point is why is a "Joe the Plumber" slur in an obscure Christian newspaper article newsworthy and a ten times+ more disgusting prime time MSNBC rant on pretty much the same subject not?

Because it fits their template of what the Republicans are. They trot out crap like this and say, "SEE, the Republicans are lowlife gay haters". The same reason they ran 10000000 stories on Abu Grahib or (insert rightwing scandal here). It must be nice living in that fantasyland over there in MSNBC. As much as FOX is rightwing, at least they actually offer up the other side. MSNBC is about as one-sided as you can get.

501 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:37:25pm

re: #490 Flyers1974

I can't answer why the MSNBC story is not newsworthy, but I can tell you why Joe the Plumber's comment was - Joe the Plumber was a major piece of the latter part of John McCain's campaign. My memory needs to be refreshed - how many times did Sarah Palin, VP candidate and until recently, conservative star, mention his name? Wasn't it Hot Air who was promoting him rather heavily not too long ago. If you are a conservative, it is very hard to now claim unfair that his comments are receiving undue attention.

502 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:37:41pm

re: #486 Catttt

Geez. Even I can speak enough Spanish to tell the gardeners to stop hacking my rose bush up.

My landscaping guys keep hacking any vegetable seedings that I don't surround with cages, and they are all redneck white guys!

503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:37:42pm

re: #477 idioma

Had a conversation tonight. Was meeting a friend for a drink (in the middle of an ugly separation). Named a place, she said, "But, that's a gay bar." I said, "So? I'm not gay. I'm still allowed in the bar."

She said, "But it's a gay bar!".

Thought it was safer that way. We didn't meet.

504 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:38:05pm

re: #491 Macker

You can replace any/all lyrics from a Rap song with the following two words, "Motherfucker! Cocksucker!' Rinse and repeat.
How original is THAT.

Ironically, rap music has become so accepted in mainstream culture that people ignore all the homophobic lyrics it often contains.

505 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:38:16pm

re: #497 freetoken

And remember what Andrew Jackson said about SCOTUS.

506 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:38:24pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Sure the MSNBC rant was far worse. However, that Village Voice journalist doesn't speak for the a political party on a near official manner and speaks as a private figure due to his obscurity. Joe the Plumber went to CPAC and was on the campaign trail last year and is essentially a public figure speaking on behalf of conservatives.

And the fact of the matter is this - Joe the Plumber's every word is scrutinized by the Left as well as his reputation debunked because America heard him speak of Conservative positions - as of right now, in America, I think you can still say what you want, like people like Joe the Plumber do, but the new wrinkle is this - if you are conservative and actually open your mouth and speak about your convictions or your positions, you are piled on so bad that it's supposed to effectively shut you up for good. Keith Olbermann gets away with what he does because conservatives believe in free speech - the Left only believes in free speech when it agrees with their position.

507 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:38:26pm

re: #490 Flyers1974

I can't answer why the MSNBC story is not newsworthy, but I can tell you why Joe the Plumber's comment was - Joe the Plumber was a major piece of the latter part of John McCain's campaign. My memory needs to be refreshed - how many times did Sarah Palin, VP candidate and until recently, conservative star, mention his name? Wasn't it Hot Air who was promoting him rather heavily not too long ago. If you are a conservative, it is very hard to now claim unfair that his comments are receiving undue attention.

So was Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers, I think we should roll those two out and see how they feel about things too, yes?

508 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:38:27pm

re: #490 Flyers1974

Joe the Plumber was a major piece of the latter part of John McCain's campaign. My memory needs to be refreshed - how many times did Sarah Palin, VP candidate and until recently, conservative star, mention his name? Wasn't it Hot Air who was promoting him rather heavily not too long ago. If you are a conservative, it is very hard to now claim unfair that his comments are receiving undue attention.

Well... specifically, his question to Obama, and Obama's flippant "spread the wealth" response, were made issues. Which is a rather different thing from some sort of wholesale endorsement of Joe and all his political beliefs.

509 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:38:52pm

re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Had a conversation tonight. Was meeting a friend for a drink (in the middle of an ugly separation). Named a place, she said, "But, that's a gay bar." I said, "So? I'm not gay. I'm still allowed in the bar."

She said, "But it's a gay bar!".

Thought it was safer that way. We didn't meet.

Sorry to hear about your separation.

510 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:38:56pm

re: #502 Alouette

My landscaping guys keep hacking any vegetable seedings that I don't surround with cages, and they are all redneck white guys!

My ex knew not to go near the gardens. Anything he weeded might be a good plant - or a good weed. :D

511 zelnaga  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:39:19pm

re: #24 Charles

I don't know. I have no connection to PJ at this point.

Hmmm - is this a permanent thing or just temporary? ie. did you have a falling out with PJTV or are you just busy with other projects?

As for Joe the Plumber... I'm actually curious as to his PJTV status, as well. That PJTV thought he'd provide good coverage of the Israel-Gaza coverage doesn't mean that PJTV endorses his attitudes towards homosexuals, however, if he becomes too outspoken in his positions on homosexuality, that could reflect on PJTV, all the same.

Of course, I don't think one interview on the subject, even if on a national TV show, constitutes outspokenness.

512 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:39:23pm

re: #479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Afton Mountain?

not sure what Afton Mountain is - it's a nickname.

513 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:39:25pm

re: #504 Million Dollar Man

Shit, I'd rather listen to DISCO from the 70s than the Top 40 shit which spews forth from the airwaves.

514 dwells38  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:39:37pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

It's an interesting story Nels. The person who pulled you aside was definitely rather forward, aggressive and obviously thought you played for the other team.

But I would guess some of the ladies here might know some harrowing or creepy stories about the guys who wouldn't take no for an answer.

I don't want him around my children either.

515 ASU86PE  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:40:09pm

re: #498 ASU86PE

F reedom's (Oops)
O n
R oad
D evices

No TARP - No Fascist Demands - No Double Taxation!

516 Occasional Reader  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:40:46pm

Good night.

517 wee fury  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:40:50pm

re: #493 Killian Bundy

/so which is worse, apples or oranges?

Oranges. They have those white stringie things that get caught in your teeth.

518 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:40:58pm

re: #514 dwells38

It's an interesting story Nels. The person who pulled you aside was definitely rather forward, aggressive and obviously thought you played for the other team.

But I would guess some of the ladies here might know some harrowing or creepy stories about the guys who wouldn't take no for an answer.

I don't want him around my children either.

Gays in America: `They're here, they're queer, and they're trying to recruit your kids!'

/sarc

519 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:41:26pm

re: #309 freetoken

Damn that's scary! I don't care if it's either party.

520 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:41:26pm

Some of the artists of the 60's are revising their hits with new lyrics to accommodate the circumstances of aging baby boomers.

They include:
Bobby Darin ---
Splish, Splash, I Was Havin' a Flash.
Herman's Hermits ---
Mrs. Brown, You've Got a Lovely Walker
Ringo Starr ---
I Get By With a Little Help From Depends
The Bee Gees ---
How Can You Mend a Broken Hip?
Roberta Flack ---
The First Time Ever I Forgot Your Face...
Johnny Nash ---
I Can't See Clearly Now
Paul Simon ---
Fifty Ways to Lose Your Liver
The Commodores ---
Once, Twice,Three Times to the Bathroom
Marvin Gaye ---
Heard It Through the Grape Nuts
Procol Harem ---
A Whiter Shade of Hair
Leo Sayer ---
You Make Me Feel Like Napping
The Temptations ---
Papa's Got a Kidney Stone
Abba ---
Denture Queen
Tony Orlando ---
Knock 3 Times On The Ceiling If You Hear Me Fall
Helen Reddy ---
I Am Woman , Hear Me Snore
Leslie Gore ---
It's My Procedure, and I'll Cry If I Want To

And Last but NOT least:
Willie Nelson ---
On the Commode Again

521 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:41:39pm

re: #514 dwells38

And don't forget the creepy dudes who accuse women of being lesbians when they turn down an opportunity for a quick roll in the hay with Mr. Wonderbar.

I'd want might kids to avoid them as well.

522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:41:49pm

re: #498 ASU86PE

F ound
O on
R road
D dead


re: #498 ASU86PE

F irst
O on
R ace
D ay

Toyota guy. Take your pick.

523 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:41:53pm

re: #505 Macker

You must be referring to your blog entry of 25 June 2008.

524 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:41:55pm

re: #518 Million Dollar Man

Um, don't they also suck too?

525 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:42:02pm

re: #490 Flyers1974

I can't answer why the MSNBC story is not newsworthy, but I can tell you why Joe the Plumber's comment was - Joe the Plumber was a major piece of the latter part of John McCain's campaign. My memory needs to be refreshed - how many times did Sarah Palin, VP candidate and until recently, conservative star, mention his name? Wasn't it Hot Air who was promoting him rather heavily not too long ago. If you are a conservative, it is very hard to now claim unfair that his comments are receiving undue attention.

/let me know when you're done self-flagellating and then maybe we can move beyond 2008

526 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:42:19pm

re: #476 gmsc

Obama joked that it was "Cinco de Cuatro," botching a play on the Spanish word for "four" when he meant to say "Cuatro de Mayo," or the Fourth of May. He tried again, but he still did not get it right.

Is a Cinco de Cuatro like a 1/5 of Cuervo?

527 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:42:44pm

re: #496 Killian Bundy

If it's newsworthy then you can blog it, n'est ce pas? I hate even discussing this crap since many people say "see the left is worse" as a distraction, or to somehow make it ok when CJ outs some of the loony right. I know that's not what you are attempting to do, but just saying.

Because they are bad doesn't mean it's ok for us to be bad. If you have integrity it just doesn't work that way.

The next few years we have to regain credence as the adult party with middle america, because our only lever will be the senate. We aren't going to be able to do that by going "oooooooh! Look at them instead!" every time we discover feet of clay in our party.

528 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:43:28pm

re: #476 gmsc

Boy, I'm so glad we got rid of that Idiot George W Bush

/

529 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:43:30pm

re: #522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Toyota guy. Take your pick.

F*cked'
Over
Recycled
Dodge

530 gmsc  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:43:35pm

How to visualize $100 million out of $3.5 Trillion:

Youtube Video
531 danrudy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:43:40pm

re: #197 Charles

I would rather see his Columbia transcript. Or, at the very least hear someone talk who remembers seeing him attend

/s

532 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:43:52pm

re: #518 Million Dollar Man

Gays in America: `They're here, they're queer

/forgot about that anthem, but it's okay to chant if you're gay

533 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:44:01pm

re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did someone say Gay Bar?

534 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:44:19pm

re: #512 Afton

Afton Mountain is a big (for VA) mountain in VA.

535 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:44:25pm

re: #523 freetoken

You must be referring to your blog entry of 25 June 2008.

You are correct!

536 Lynn B.  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:44:30pm
Well, although I’m not really “on the right,” I will. He doesn’t speak for me.

But neither do you, Alan.

ditto. ditto. ditto. ditto....

537 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:44:32pm

re: #287 The Sanity Inspector

I'm off to bed now, so would someone please do me a favor and post this in the open thread later tonight? It's a National Geographic clip on Palestinian suicide bombers, specifically on how some mothers raise their sons to commit murder-suicide against Jews:

That is some sick shit. What is this "occupation" she is complaining about? Did you see the size of that house and the fancy carved front door? Israelis do not live in huge villas like that.

538 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:44:41pm

re: #529 Desert Dog

F*cked'
Over
Recycled
Dodge

Fucker
Only
Rolls
Downhill

539 solomonpanting  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:45:18pm

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

Some of the artists of the 60's are revising their hits with new lyrics to accommodate the circumstances of aging baby boomers.

An elderly couple had dinner at another couple's house, and after eating, the wives left the table and went into the kitchen.
The two gentlemen were talking, and one said, 'Last night we went out to a new restaurant and it was really great. I would recommend it very highly.'
The other man said, 'What is the name of the restaurant?'
The first man thought and thought and finally said, 'What is the name of that flower you give to someone you love?
You know... The one that's red and has thorns.'
'Do you mean a rose?'
'Yes, that's the one,' replied the man. He then turned towards the kitchen and yelled, 'Rose, what's the name of that restaurant we went to last night?'

540 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:45:20pm

re: #482 Afton

If you don't think Keith Olbermann speaks for the Democrat party then you are either loco or you're the only one in America that doesn't.

He frequently criticizes the Democrats from the left. He's not a Democrat. He's a Liberal. When the Democrats aren't being liberal enough he rants at them just like he ranted against bush.

It's the same way a lot of Blogs and sometimes Fox are conservative first and republican second.

541 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:45:24pm

re: #537 Alouette

That is some sick shit. What is this "occupation" she is complaining about? Did you see the size of that house and the fancy carved front door? Israelis do not live in huge villas like that.

They also don't usually have 15 kids, though.

542 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:45:27pm

re: #506 Afton

And the fact of the matter is this - Joe the Plumber's every word is scrutinized by the Left as well as his reputation debunked because America heard him speak of Conservative positions - as of right now, in America, I think you can still say what you want, like people like Joe the Plumber do, but the new wrinkle is this - if you are conservative and actually open your mouth and speak about your convictions or your positions, you are piled on so bad that it's supposed to effectively shut you up for good. Keith Olbermann gets away with what he does because conservatives believe in free speech - the Left only believes in free speech when it agrees with their position.

Well, the fact remains. Joe Wurzelbacher opened his mouth and it will only hurt the GOP as he will continue to hurt the GOP in the months to come. That will be until someone opens their eyes and realizes the liability that he will become. He was working during the campaign and he was invited to CPAC. I do not care about what Keith Olbermann represents. Having some yokel like Mr. Wurzelbacher will only do more harm then good. This is not a question about the MSM.

543 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:46:23pm

well, as i was out weeding in my front yard tonight, a dweeby guy comes up wanting to sign something about a bill regarding clean water. i said-well, in all my 59 yrs, i've never worried about having clean water to drink. he said-well you need to sign this. i asked -is this state or fed? he said fed. i axed him who are the sponsors of this bill? he said-gee lady-nobody has axed me that- but looks thru his fancy clipboard-saying -well it is bipartisan--then shows me the info. the first 2 names--finestein and boxer and then a whole lot of dems. i laughed so hard --he just backed away and said--enjoy your weeding.

544 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:46:28pm

re: #509 Walter L. Newton

Nice try. Fat wife is in bed sound asleep. And here I am.

Wait! I'm not here. I am safely in bed, sound asleep with her in 5-4-3... zzzzz.

545 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:46:33pm

re: #508 Occasional Reader

I would never claim that it was unfair to use Obama's "spread the wealth" comment against him. It was his own comment after all. Bad move Obama. My point is, Joe the Plumber has been heavily, heavily utilized. Now that its turning a bit uncomfortable, its tough to complain if he's quoted early and often.

546 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:46:57pm

Who decided that Joe the Plumber is a major conservative spokesman?

Truth is, the media did. He is a designated strawman, selected almost at random and cultivated in the belief, now realized, that he would eventually make a complete ass of himself.

547 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:47:10pm

re: #508 Occasional Reader

Well... specifically, his question to Obama, and Obama's flippant "spread the wealth" response, were made issues. Which is a rather different thing from some sort of wholesale endorsement of Joe and all his political beliefs.

If BHO would have said "We've had a progressive tax for decades, and it taxes those with higher incomes at a higher rate", we'd never have heard of Joe. Instead, he used the flip "spread the wealth" term, which, while true when speaking of tax rates, made Joe famous.

548 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:47:47pm

re: #534 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW... Hush Walter! Our mountains have been around for... uh... 6 thousand years or so.

What are the Rockies? From last week?

549 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:47:50pm

Quentin Tarentino explains why Top Gun is really a metaphor for homosexuality

Youtube Video
550 ASU86PE  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:47:56pm

re: #476 gmsc

Video! I need video! Pleeeze say there's video!

551 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:48:21pm

re: #527 Thanos

If it's newsworthy then you can blog it, n'est ce pas? I hate even discussing this crap since many people say "see the left is worse" as a distraction, or to somehow make it ok when CJ outs some of the loony right. I know that's not what you are attempting to do, but just saying.

Because they are bad doesn't mean it's ok for us to be bad. If you have integrity it just doesn't work that way.

The next few years we have to regain credence as the adult party with middle america, because our only lever will be the senate. We aren't going to be able to do that by going "oooooooh! Look at them instead!" every time we discover feet of clay in our party.

That's an interesting strategy to regain the House and Senate in 2010 and the White House in 2012: We'll let the the Lefty blogs and the MSM continue to rip into any conservative and also ignore every single transgression on the Left while the Conservative blogs and any quasi news media that is close to Conservative will focus primarily on all transgressions, gaffes, and screw ups of Conservatives in order to purify our own house. Yeah! That outta work!

552 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:48:23pm

re: #543 mikeymom

well, as i was out weeding in my front yard tonight, a dweeby guy comes up wanting to sign something about a bill regarding clean water. i said-well, in all my 59 yrs, i've never worried about having clean water to drink. he said-well you need to sign this. i asked -is this state or fed? he said fed. i axed him who are the sponsors of this bill? he said-gee lady-nobody has axed me that- but looks thru his fancy clipboard-saying -well it is bipartisan--then shows me the info. the first 2 names--finestein and boxer and then a whole lot of dems. i laughed so hard --he just backed away and said--enjoy your weeding.

The feds are trying to steal more of our water again. I wish you knew what the bill was or more detail.

553 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #547 avanti

If BHO would have said "We've had a progressive tax for decades, and it taxes those with higher incomes at a higher rate", we'd never have heard of Joe. Instead, he used the flip "spread the wealth" term, which, while true when speaking of tax rates, made Joe famous.

yes, he made a major mistake in Democratic politics...he told a voter what he actually believed rather than the usual "what the voter wants to hear"....big boo boo, it hurt him too.....not enough though...too bad

554 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:48:36pm

re: #481 Million Dollar Man

Au Contraire! Roe v. Wade made the constitution say many things.

555 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:48:37pm

re: #546 Shiplord Kirel

Who decided that Joe the Plumber is a major conservative spokesman?

He had a few working gigs.

556 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:48:37pm

re: #549 Killgore Trout

Oh, yeah... language warning.

557 acacia  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:23pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

Couldn't agree more. As far as Joe goes - he's not articulate but so what he's a guy who never asked to be in the limelight. He is who he is. His heart is in the right place. He is not a leader of the GOP anymore than Barbra is a leader of the Dems.

558 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:25pm

re: #556 Killgore Trout

Oh, yeah... language warning.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. :D

559 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:30pm

re: #546 Shiplord Kirel

You really do need to get an avatar from "The Race"...

560 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:35pm

re: #527 Thanos

If it's newsworthy then you can blog it, n'est ce pas?

/hard pressed to get one entry off a day, started on Chrysler but went with Rahm Emanuel's outrageousness for today

561 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:41pm

re: #514 dwells38

Looking back on the incident, I believe the gay person felt I was impressionable and could be convinced to try gay acts with him. I was not, and did not.
Men who predate on women are still heterosexual. I do not wish for this conversation to go too far afield so I will not comment further.
I am confident in my masculinity and would not hurt my Wife. My son understands what homosexuality is about and rejects it. I love my family and do my best each day to honor and protect them. We should all do our best for our families. Thank the Founding Fathers for creating a system of government that understands we have the freedom to raise our families as we see fit. Government does not grant us any freedoms, we already have them!

562 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:44pm

re: #548 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW... Hush Walter! Our mountains have been around for... uh... 6 thousand years or so.

What are the Rockies? From last week?

You don't have mountains, they look like tits on Paris Hilton.

563 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:50pm

re: #548 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW... Hush Walter! Our mountains have been around for... uh... 6 thousand years or so.

What are the Rockies? From last week?

I've been to you "mountains", we call those "hills" were I am from....nice tree covered hills, but hills nonetheless

564 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:49:56pm

re: #546 Shiplord Kirel

Who decided that Joe the Plumber is a major conservative spokesman?

Truth is, the media did. He is a designated strawman, selected almost at random and cultivated in the belief, now realized, that he would eventually make a complete ass of himself.

DING DING DING!

565 gmsc  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:50:07pm

re: #550 ASU86PE

Video! I need video! Pleeeze say there's video!

Guess what? I have good news for you!

Youtube Video
566 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:50:13pm

re: #341 zoidberg

I think we have a catch phrase here!

567 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:50:41pm

re: #405 NelsFree

When I was a teenager, about 16, I associated with a straight guy who had gay friends. Two of them visited his house one day while I was there. One of them took me aside and said, (based on nothing I had done) that I would enjoy homosexual acts, and it was his opinion that I was really gay inside. I was sure enough of myself to say that he was very wrong, and I promptly left.
I would not allow gays to influence my children. I do not believe gays should be allowed to get married. I would not support legislation allowing gay marriage.

Women and teenaged girls deal with creepy advances like that from men all the time. I don't any more, because I'm married and middle-aged, but when I was young and single? Quite a few. I was very lucky that none of the guys who approached me like that refused to take no for an answer, and I'm really happy that the "date rape" drugs didn't exist back then.

But your story is not that big of a deal, at least from this hetero female's standpoint.

568 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:50:46pm

re: #546 Shiplord Kirel

Who decided that Joe the Plumber is a major conservative spokesman?

Truth is, the media did. He is a designated strawman, selected almost at random and cultivated in the belief, now realized, that he would eventually make a complete ass of himself.

He was embraces by the whole spectrum of the media. Fox News had him front and center whenever they could. Conservative talk show hosts lionized him. He expressed a gut sense that Obama was much more liberal than he was portraying himself to be, and for that he was helpful.

569 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:50:50pm

re: #561 NelsFree

I'll bet he was disappointed.

570 ShanghaiEd  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:50:55pm

pittrader1988 writes:

I think that there is room for everyone if we follow the precepts of limited government, personal freedom, property rights, and equal opportunity for all. Create a vibrant economic environment where people have an opportunity to get ahead, and a lot of these social issues go away (like abortion)

This is disturbing, to me. You're saying that if only everybody had well-paying jobs, then women would no longer get pregnant by accident, and gays would no longer want to marry those they love? I don't see the logic, there.

Money doesn't buy happiness and it sure doesn't create equality and justice. To claim otherwise seems not quite intellectually honest, to me.

571 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:50:58pm

re: #560 Killian Bundy

/hard pressed to get one entry off a day, started on Chrysler but went with Rahm Emanuel's outrageousness for today

Yeah, work's kept me busy this evening, doubt I'll get a post in today. But hey, I did figure out how to get photos onto my ipod while trying to help Zombie.

572 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:51:29pm

re: #525 Killian Bundy

I think you have me all wrong. I'm not self-flagellating, I'm the enemy.

573 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:51:30pm

re: #561 NelsFree

Looking back on the incident, I believe the gay person felt I was impressionable and could be convinced to try gay acts with him. I was not, and did not.
Men who predate on women are still heterosexual. I do not wish for this conversation to go too far afield so I will not comment further.
I am confident in my masculinity and would not hurt my Wife. My son understands what homosexuality is about and rejects it. I love my family and do my best each day to honor and protect them. We should all do our best for our families. Thank the Founding Fathers for creating a system of government that understands we have the freedom to raise our families as we see fit. Government does not grant us any freedoms, we already have them!

I smell a homophobe, IMHO.

574 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:51:50pm

also--mikedad and i have decided to go ahead with our celebratory trip to cancun-we booked it 2 days before this whole thing broke--it seems to be winding down--we leave on the 17th--media hype-bah

575 Lynn B.  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:52:06pm

re: #557 acacia

Couldn't agree more. As far as Joe goes - he's not articulate but so what he's a guy who never asked to be in the limelight. He is who he is. His heart is in the right place. He is not a leader of the GOP anymore than Barbra is a leader of the Dems.

Agree with what?

That's not even remotely consistent with what Shar said.

576 Afton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:52:07pm

re: #542 Gus 802

Well, the fact remains. Joe Wurzelbacher opened his mouth and it will only hurt the GOP as he will continue to hurt the GOP in the months to come. That will be until someone opens their eyes and realizes the liability that he will become. He was working during the campaign and he was invited to CPAC. I do not care about what Keith Olbermann represents. Having some yokel like Mr. Wurzelbacher will only do more harm then good. This is not a question about the MSM.

You're right, of course. I wish Joe the Plumber had stayed inside of his house that day Obama came walking through the neighborhood. That way, some of us might even be surprised that Obama wants to "spread the wealth" - if only we could find a conservative citizen to speak out for the Right in the same civil and pure way as Janine Garafalo (sp?).

577 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:52:15pm

re: #538 Million Dollar Man

Fucker
Only
Rolls
Downhill

ha, ha, ha

keep buying those Japanese cars, guys, and keep slamming on the only US automaker that's in decent financial shape

and Consumer Reports says Fords are high quality vehicles just like Toyotas any more

578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:52:28pm

re: #562 Walter L. Newton

My mountains have history. Your's. Tall bumps.

Shaquille O'Neal'll be 6 feet tall eventually.

Bite me!

Love ya! Mean it!

579 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:52:46pm

re: #551 Afton

Did I say anything about ignoring the left and their transgressions? NO, I said it's stupid to try to change the topic when a Republican is in the wrong. Fess up, move on.

Now please quit trying to stuff words in my mouth or read things in that aren't there.

580 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:52:49pm

re: #574 mikeymom

also--mikedad and i have decided to go ahead with our celebratory trip to cancun-we booked it 2 days before this whole thing broke--it seems to be winding down--we leave on the 17th--media hype-bah

We'll look for you on the news......just kidding....looks like it's getting better down there. Enjoy yourself, Cancun is AWESOME!

581 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:52:51pm

re: #518 Million Dollar Man

Gays in America: `They're here, they're queer, and they're trying to recruit your kids!'

/sarc


Dear MDM,
Considering that I experienced first-hand a gay person trying to recruit me while an adolescent, I feel the "/sarc" tag inappropriate in your post.

582 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:53:04pm

re: #542 Gus 802

Well, the fact remains. Joe Wurzelbacher opened his mouth and it will only hurt the GOP as he will continue to hurt the GOP in the months to come.

/only if the GOP dwells on him, exactly who does he represent?

583 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:53:24pm

re: #574 mikeymom

also--mikedad and i have decided to go ahead with our celebratory trip to cancun-we booked it 2 days before this whole thing broke--it seems to be winding down--we leave on the 17th--media hype-bah

LOL... my eyes must be getting tired, I thought you wrote "celibacy" trip...

584 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:53:42pm

re: #552 Walter L. Newton

The feds are trying to steal more of our water again. I wish you knew what the bill was or more detail.

this was a dem sponsered thing--would you sign it?

585 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:53:55pm

re: #577 funky chicken

ha, ha, ha

keep buying those Japanese cars, guys, and keep slamming on the only US automaker that's in decent financial shape

and Consumer Reports says Fords are high quality vehicles just like Toyotas any more

I saw the Consumer reports guy on FNC the other day. Maybe we saw the same segment.
He Praised Ford.

Didn't recommend a single Chrysler car at any price!
I thought that was pretty damning.

586 astronmr20  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:54:06pm

Late to the thread.

I called this months ago, explaining how this was a STUPID, attention-whoring move for Pajamas Media to hire this guy.

...and now I say it again.

587 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:54:07pm

re: #577 funky chicken

ha, ha, ha

keep buying those Japanese cars, guys, and keep slamming on the only US automaker that's in decent financial shape

and Consumer Reports says Fords are high quality vehicles just like Toyotas any more

I have two Ford Vans, they are both over 250,000 miles. Tough vehicles. The Nissan Pick up has 300,000, but it's starting to show it's age.

588 Euler  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:54:27pm

re: #107 Jim in Virginia

Sharmuta, I was hearing this "America is a Christian nation" stuff thirty years ago, and I'm sure it predates the 70s. I don't know if it is a Bircher thing or a product of the anti communist hysteria in the 50s. As I recall we added "In God we trust " to our coins in the 50s.

Actually, the motive was more anti-confederate than anti-communist, at least in the beginning. It was in November, 1861, the very month Julia Ward Howe wrote The Battle Hymn of the Repubic, (to my ear, the most stirring expression, ever, of the Christian spirit in national affairs), that Lincoln's treasury secretary, Salmon P. Chase, acting on appeals from Christian abolitionists, set the bureaucracy in motion, which resulted, after some acts of Congress, in the first coins bearing the motto to be minted in 1866.

589 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:54:28pm

Test: Are you homophobic?

590 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:55:16pm

re: #567 funky chicken

Dear Ms. FC,

You never did answer my question in a previous thread about why you appear to dislike Miss California for speaking her mind.

591 astronmr20  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:55:40pm

In continuation, this sort of shit is ultimately going to hurt even the media coverage of the Israeli- Pali conflict that Joe "covered," even though the topic is un-related.

Again, I say nice going, PJM. Think next time.

592 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:55:51pm

re: #562 Walter L. Newton

You don't have mountains, they look like tits on Paris Hilton.


14,000 updings! (its a co thing)

593 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:56:07pm

re: #559 Macker

You really do need to get an avatar from "The Race"...

I'm happy with Darth Tater for now, but I'll consider it if a good enough illustration comes along. Actually, a "Race" plush toy would be ideal.

594 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:56:25pm

re: #584 mikeymom

this was a dem sponsered thing--would you sign it?

No, no, I'm thinking that hidden in the bill was probably some stuff about OUR water, Colorado water, the river, you know. The Feds are always trying to come up with schemes to get more of it from us.

I worry about any water bills, especially when they are going door to door in Colorado.

595 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:56:46pm

OT:

I want to give props to my wife.
She was given the "citizen" award tonight by our city council.

A few months ago she spotted a little boy who was lost, ( he lives 10 miles from where he was wandering around ) and she took him to the police station.
Our local PD and the surrounding PD's ( including a chopper) had been looking for him for hours.

I don't think I would have had the intuition to stop and ask him if he was OK or not, but she did and I am very proud of her

596 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:57:12pm

re: #583 Walter L. Newton

LOL... my eyes must be getting tired, I thought you wrote "celibacy" trip...

well, after 42 yrs of marriage--same thing-lol

597 JohnAdams  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:57:16pm

re: #585 Shug

I saw the Consumer reports guy on FNC the other day. Maybe we saw the same segment.
He Praised Ford.

Didn't recommend a single Chrysler car at any price!
I thought that was pretty damning.

Jeeps are like a religion to many people. That's a great brand.

598 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:57:18pm

re: #589 Catttt

I'm 36 per cent Homohobic.

599 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:57:21pm

re: #595 Shug

Mrs Shug rocks!

600 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:57:21pm

re: #381 MandyManners

All too true.

601 astronmr20  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:57:24pm

re: #595 Shug

Awesome!

602 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:58:44pm

re: #581 NelsFree

Dear MDM,
Considering that I experienced first-hand a gay person trying to recruit me while an adolescent, I feel the "/sarc" tag inappropriate in your post.

You act like "recruiting" would work on straight kid without a predisposition to be gay ?

603 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:58:54pm

re: #581 NelsFree

Dear MDM,
Considering that I experienced first-hand a gay person trying to recruit me while an adolescent, I feel the "/sarc" tag inappropriate in your post.

Why use the term "recruit"? Is there some sort of gay army that intends to take over the country?

604 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:59:05pm

re: #595 Shug

I think a story like that is never OT.

605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:59:14pm

re: #595 Shug

Super-ding!

606 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #595 Shug

Please give your wife 1,000 updings from all of us here!

607 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #582 Killian Bundy

/only if the GOP dwells on him, exactly who does he represent?

Well, if you read what Charles put up in the article we will find he was asked the following:

In the last month, same-sex marriage has become legal in Iowa and Vermont. What do you think about same-sex marriage at a state level?

Why does conservatism appeal to you as a Christian?

Does the Republican Party reach out to evangelicals enough?

Emphasis mine. Apparently we can see that Joe W. is considered a worthy source informations on the following issues considering the questions:

1. State law regarding same-sex marriage.
2. Conservatism and Christianity.
3. Republican Party issues with evangelicals.

Apparently he represents all three groups: state, conservatism, and the Republican Party. If not why would they have asked him those questions.

608 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:59:38pm

re: #561 NelsFree

Looking back on the incident, I believe the gay person felt I was impressionable and could be convinced to try gay acts with him. I was not, and did not.
Men who predate on women are still heterosexual. I do not wish for this conversation to go too far afield so I will not comment further.
I am confident in my masculinity and would not hurt my Wife. My son understands what homosexuality is about and rejects it. I love my family and do my best each day to honor and protect them. We should all do our best for our families. Thank the Founding Fathers for creating a system of government that understands we have the freedom to raise our families as we see fit. Government does not grant us any freedoms, we already have them!


You were being hit on, not "recruited". Really, I just don't see the view that someone is so impressionable that they can be seduced into being attracted to someone of the same sex. Where are all these people who were tricked into being gay?

609 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:59:43pm

re: #588 Euler

I didn't know that - thanks.

Here is an 1870 two-cent piece with it.

610 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 8:59:46pm

re: #595 Shug
amazing--she saved a life possibly! hugs and kudos to her!

OT:

I want to give props to my wife.
She was given the "citizen" award tonight by our city council.

A few months ago she spotted a little boy who was lost, ( he lives 10 miles from where he was wandering around ) and she took him to the police station.
Our local PD and the surrounding PD's ( including a chopper) had been looking for him for hours.

I don't think I would have had the intuition to stop and ask him if he was OK or not, but she did and I am very proud of her

611 JohnAdams  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:00:04pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

No, no, I'm thinking that hidden in the bill was probably some stuff about OUR water, Colorado water, the river, you know. The Feds are always trying to come up with schemes to get more of it from us.

I worry about any water bills, especially when they are going door to door in Colorado.

Even our dimwit governors up here in the Midwest have taken steps to protect Great Lakes waters. We've got people moving to Arizona and NC in droves and I tell them, "You can have our water if you'll send us 300 warm sunny days."

612 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:00:20pm

re: #602 avanti

You act like "recruiting"i would work on straight kid without a predisposition to be gay ?

It's really a matter of getting a tough gay drill sergeant to beat them into shape. Once they go through basic queer training they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

613 Dr. Shalit  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:00:58pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Constitution was based off Enlightenment principles, and Greco-Roman traditions. Democracies and Republics pre-date the Christian faith.

Sharmuta -

Would he hadn't said it publicly even if he believes it privately. My ENEMY is NOT the Gay Couple living two blocks over.
That couple may be my Political Opponents, I do NOT believe that their relationship constitutes "marriage" as I understand it - AND - generally they do not want to lop my head off. They might just be POLITICALLY if not SEXUALLY - Educable.
The folks that would like to lop my Head Off ARE my ENEMY!

-S-

614 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:13pm

re: #589 Catttt

Test: Are you homophobic?

I'm 11% Homophobic

whatever that means

615 MrZee  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:14pm

Charles it's time for connected American bloggers to create a third way in the political stream. An economically conservative (or free market capitalist), but socially liberal, anti church & state, anti totalitarian party. There are many of you out there & many of us who are not American who wish you could organise yourselves. Forget PJTV we want Pajamas Political Party!

616 ASU86PE  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:17pm

re: #565 gmscYOU ROCK!

I enjoyed the screw ups. It does beg the question,"If this is our President and his lack of knowledge on display, why is this thread SO concerned over one voter's terms?

Just Askin'

617 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:34pm

Well, to bed soon. I have a test tomorrow, echocardiogram, hope I pass, last time they couldn't even find my heart. Just a routine test, their not really looking for anything. I have SVT (supraventricular tachycardia, rapid heart beat, not life threatening ) occasionally and they like to keep abreast of the way my ticker is ticking.

618 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:34pm

re: #603 Million Dollar Man

Why use the term "recruit"? Is there some sort of gay army that intends to take over the country?

That reminds me of the rumor in my home town that the Catholics were hiding weapons in the basement of the church, which has no basement, waiting for the high sign from the Pope. Not making it up.

619 ASU86PE  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:34pm

On to 24

620 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:46pm

re: #595 Shug

OT:

I want to give props to my wife.
She was given the "citizen" award tonight by our city council.

A few months ago she spotted a little boy who was lost, ( he lives 10 miles from where he was wandering around ) and she took him to the police station.
Our local PD and the surrounding PD's ( including a chopper) had been looking for him for hours.

I don't think I would have had the intuition to stop and ask him if he was OK or not, but she did and I am very proud of her

You should be. Awesome !

Not quit peeing on the seat, it's the least you can do for her.

/

621 artdog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:52pm

re: #478 BryanS

Exactly! The issue is completely upside down. It's not "for gay marriage" as much as: Government (fed, state and local) out of everybody's bedroom!

(Sure, if government didn't give the seal of approval to man-woman marriage, you'd have to sort out tax issues, and watch out for polygamist child-abuse situations. But STILL....)

622 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:01:54pm

re: #614 Shug

I'm 11% Homophobic

whatever that means

I'm zero percent homophobic, whatever that means. :D

623 RememberSekhmet?  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:02:04pm

I don't speak much nowadays, but I'd like to think that when I do say something, it's worth saying.

Where the religiously conservative and the religiously not-so-conservative fail to get along is when one or the other is failing at actually being conservative, then asks the other guys to go march into the cannonade.

When it comes to sexuality or my lifestyle or yours, I say if you want the government to have an opinion on it, you can read its entrails. What is important is whether something can or should be done within the framework of a limited government as set forth in the Constitution. Start deviating from this principle, either in the direction of pity for some allegedly dispossessed group or in the direction of the teachings of one particular religious sect, and you are crossing the line.

Many of the folks who were cheering Spector's exit from the GOP would kiss Janeane Garofalo for tickets to a debate between 0bama and Rudy Guiliani. Spector failed at economic conservatism and working with the current legislative strategery of the GOP. Guiliani merely fails to ride some hobby horses of other factions within the GOP, but has otherwise conducted himself in accordance with conservative principles. Many of the folks going, "oh HUCK NO!" in 2008 are often quite fine with Sarah Palin. Huckabee is a progressivist who says Jesus a lot, as borne out by his record in Arkansas. Palin has governed Alaska much more in accordance with conservative principles.

There is common ground between social conservatives and social moderates. The GOP would do well to find it.

624 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:02:25pm

re: #582 Killian Bundy

/only if the GOP dwells on him, exactly who does he represent?

If you roll with the MSM, and most do, then he represents you, me and everyone else that is not a lib. Unfortunately.
Joe + a lot of other new found Loonacons are making life tough on normal these days.

625 NelsFree  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:02:29pm

Folks,
I feel that the multiple topics in this thread are wearing me down. That, and it's Midnight on the East Coast. Thank you all for an interesting exchange of views. I hope to have more factual posts in the future that can contribute to the edification of the Lizards at Large. I respect your right to hold differing opinions (even if I think some them are, well...y'know). Who knows, some of life's persistent questions may be answered here yet!

Good night.

626 gmsc  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:02:30pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

What am I? A photosensitive epileptic.

You're going to be using that a lot? I'll just avoid clicking your links altogether from now on, since you don't give any sort of warning.

(Link intentionally removed from quoted message.)

627 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:02:34pm

By the way, the majority of Americans, including TOTUS, don't support gay "marriage".

/right or wrong, it's a fact

628 Lynn B.  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:02:43pm

re: #581 NelsFree

Dear MDM,
Considering that I experienced first-hand a gay person trying to recruit me while an adolescent, I feel the "/sarc" tag inappropriate in your post.

Dear NelsFree,

Considering that I was once mugged by a black/hispanic/gay/Hindu/atheist person on a dark city street, I feel that it's inappropriate to minimize the threat that THOSE PEOPLE pose to our society.
/// surely you must jest.

629 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:03:02pm

re: #620 SasquatchOnSteroids

PIMF Now, not NOT. Dipshit.

630 Irenicum  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:03:18pm

re: #429 ArmyWife

Thanks for the reminder!

631 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:03:28pm

Hey y'all - sorry I'm so late to this thread. I know that someone has probably asked this more than a few times, but what's with Joe The Plumber suddenly representing anything other than himself?
I'm probably missing something (senior moments do seem to come more frequently these days!) but iirc he was just a straight forward (no pun intended) voter who asked Obama an inconvenient question. And instead of pursuing Obama for an answer to a legitimate question, the MSM (and some governmental officials) started ripping Joe's life apart in public and in print and on TV.
He has never spoken for me and I don't recall anyone anointing him to speak for the GOP.
And hell, I can find hundreds of leftists who are just as "off center" as Joe the Plumber - so other than curiosity, why are we giving him so many comments?

632 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:03:50pm

re: #614 Shug

I'm 11% Homophobic

whatever that means

Well, I was 0% homophobic and I got an email from an interested person.

633 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:04:00pm

Aaaand that's the right wing for ya.

/how you guys doing this high-noon?

634 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:04:14pm

re: #581 NelsFree

Dear MDM,
Considering that I experienced first-hand a gay person trying to recruit me while an adolescent, I feel the "/sarc" tag inappropriate in your post.

I think it is possible that you fear gay people. It is not rational, I think, to fear that they can "recruit" straight people. Think about yourself and anyone else you know. Could you or they be convinced to be gay?

635 HopsHunter  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:04:32pm

re: #107 Jim in Virginia

Sharmuta, I was hearing this "America is a Christian nation" stuff thirty years ago, and I'm sure it predates the 70s. I don't know if it is a Bircher thing or a product of the anti communist hysteria in the 50s. As I recall we added "In God we trust " to our coins in the 50s.

I know that this is gonna end up waayyy down at the bottom of the comment thread (I just can't keep up with you guys), but the '50s is when "under God" was added to the pledge as well. Definitely a Cold War reaction to the "Godless" communists.

636 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:04:35pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

No, no, I'm thinking that hidden in the bill was probably some stuff about OUR water, Colorado water, the river, you know. The Feds are always trying to come up with schemes to get more of it from us.

I worry about any water bills, especially when they are going door to door in Colorado.

You mean that sludge coming out of my tap here in Phoenix? No Colorado River? The it's no Arizona, no Nevada, no California in the current configuration. Hard to believe that little river is so powerful. I used to go fishing up at the headwaters of that river, you can jump over it up there near Granby.

637 pygmalienation  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:04:38pm

Sorry if this has been said already, but...
sigh... Joe, Joe, Joe... I'm afraid your 15 minutes is up-- Way up.

638 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:05:09pm

Every plumber knows you need a male and female thread to make a union.

And there's always a nipple that's just the right size.

639 astronmr20  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:05:19pm

re: #631 realwest

Hey y'all - sorry I'm so late to this thread. I know that someone has probably asked this more than a few times, but what's with Joe The Plumber suddenly representing anything other than himself?
I'm probably missing something (senior moments do seem to come more frequently these days!) but iirc he was just a straight forward (no pun intended) voter who asked Obama an inconvenient question. And instead of pursuing Obama for an answer to a legitimate question, the MSM (and some governmental officials) started ripping Joe's life apart in public and in print and on TV.
He has never spoken for me and I don't recall anyone anointing him to speak for the GOP.
And hell, I can find hundreds of leftists who are just as "off center" as Joe the Plumber - so other than curiosity, why are we giving him so many comments?


Um... realwest... he went on tour with John McCain.

..and Pajamas Media hired him to cover the M.E. conflict.

640 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:05:19pm

re: #612 Million Dollar Man

It's really a matter of getting a tough gay drill sergeant to beat them into shape. Once they go through basic queer training they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

I had a queer friend in high school. (that's what they were called in the 60's) His parents sent him to a shrink to be "cured", which did not work. He asked me how hard it would be for me to be "cured" if it meant I had to become gay, and that impressed me.

641 hazzyday  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:05:26pm

Joe the Plumber -- not politically correct -- I think that is why he was hired. And he probably is representative of a good chunk of the working class. His role will give him some exposure to people. We'll see if any of that changes his vocabulary.

642 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:06:02pm

I think gays should be allowed to recruit, as long as they are transparent about it and do it lawfully.

There's no reason why they can't set up recruitment centers where people can sign up. But actively recruiting in the community is a bit of a stretch.

643 acwgusa  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:06:15pm

Sung to the tune of Oh Where Has My Little Dog Gone?

Oh where, oh where has my party's sanity gone?
Oh where, oh where can it be?
With our freedom cut short and our taxes cut long.
Oh where, oh where can it be?

644 Dr. Shalit  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:06:38pm

re: #561 NelsFree

NelsFree -

"By Jove" - I think you've got it - Inalienable Rights, Bestowed by a Creator, Pre-Existing the Creation of the State. Sounds Like A Constitution to Me.

-S-

645 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:06:49pm

re: #642 Million Dollar Man

I think gays should be allowed to recruit, as long as they are transparent about it and do it lawfully.

There's no reason why they can't set up recruitment centers where people can sign up. But actively recruiting in the community is a bit of a stretch.

But, the question is, will the Marines come and picket out front and make them close down their recruitment center?

646 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:06:51pm

re: #642 Million Dollar Man

I think gays should be allowed to recruit, as long as they are transparent about it and do it lawfully.

Recruit for what?

647 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:06:58pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

None of this is surprising to me anymore. There have always been elements of homophobia, racism, religious supremacism, etc. on the right. Joe the Plumber was always an idiot. I know a lot of lizards love Sarah Palin but she's not much better.

And if Sarah Palin comes out with a statement that she enjoyed meeting Mr. Joe and appreciated his contribution on the campaign but absolutely disagrees with this statement about homosexuals, will you change your mind about her, or give her credit for doing so?

648 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:07:06pm

re: #617 Walter L. Newtonprayers to you--let us know, please?

Well, to bed soon. I have a test tomorrow, echocardiogram, hope I pass, last time they couldn't even find my heart. Just a routine test, their not really looking for anything. I have SVT (supraventricular tachycardia, rapid heart beat, not life threatening ) occasionally and they like to keep abreast of the way my ticker is ticking.

649 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:07:10pm

re: #641 hazzyday

Joe the Plumber -- not politically correct -- I think that is why he was hired. And he probably is representative of a good chunk of the working class. His role will give him some exposure to people. We'll see if any of that changes his vocabulary.

I don't want him to have any more exposure than he's had. Go away Joe, your time is up.

650 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:08:01pm

re: #642 Million Dollar Man

I think gays should be allowed to recruit, as long as they are transparent about it and do it lawfully.

There's no reason why they can't set up recruitment centers where people can sign up. But actively recruiting in the community is a bit of a stretch.

You must read a lot of comic books.

651 astronmr20  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:08:39pm

re: #641 hazzyday

Joe the Plumber -- not politically correct -- I think that is why he was hired. And he probably is representative of a good chunk of the working class. His role will give him some exposure to people. We'll see if any of that changes his vocabulary.

NO. Let's not give the left any more ammunition instead, okay?


Sheesh.. people look at Joe like he's Christ for his persecution after Obama met him on his lawn. He's a regular guy; sure, but this patriotic crying of "we are all Joe the Plumber" was going to backfire eventually.

Although conservative, and although he presented a fine juxtaposition after his exchange with Obama was caught on camera, it should have STOPPED AT THAT.

652 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:09:10pm

re: #646 Mich-again

Recruit for what?

Depends on what their manpower needs are. There's also the al-volunteer units, though, which need little advertising. I've heard of several secret elite gay units where the selection procedure is quite rigorous. Those outfits only take the hardcore queers who have tremendous powers of endurance and the highest motivation to serve.

653 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:09:40pm

re: #613 Dr. Shalit

Indeed.

He has a right to his opinion, he has a right to voice it, but just like with the Dixie Chicks, I have a right to disagree and shun him. There will be some who agree completely with Joe, and will defend these comments, but it reflects more on them for supporting this reeking pile than it does on those who think 'live and let live'.

654 irongrampa  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:09:42pm

re: #394 talon_262


Boone's Farm is for when Thunderbird's unavailable.

655 jcm  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:09:59pm

re: #652 Million Dollar Man

Depends on what their manpower needs are. There's also the al-volunteer units, though, which need little advertising. I've heard of several secret elite gay units where the selection procedure is quite rigorous. Those outfits only take the hardcore queers who have tremendous powers of endurance and the highest motivation to serve.

Like the Up Your Alley fair?

656 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:10:00pm

re: #546 re: #631 realwest

He represented someone other than himself once the Republican nominee for the President of the United States chose to make him a major piece of the latter part of his campaign. Also after Sarah Palin stated his name numerous numerous times, and not just in the context of the original question to Obama. Also after appearing on Fox news and being heavily pushed by that PJTV.

657 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:10:08pm

re: #607 Gus 802

Apparently he represents all three groups: state, conservatism, and the Republican Party. If not why would they have asked him those questions.

Oh, I don't know, because it was a Christian newspaper and evangelicals love the homosexual but frown on homosexuality?

/registering as a Republican, if he even is, makes him a national spokesman for the GOP?

658 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:10:13pm

re: #622 Catttt

I'm zero percent homophobic, whatever that means. :D

And I'm 58%.

659 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:10:19pm

Dianna misses all of you guys. She wanted me to share that.

660 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:10:21pm

re: #627 Killian Bundy

By the way, the majority of Americans, including TOTUS, don't support gay "marriage".

/right or wrong, it's a fact

True, but the bar is moving. Just recently polling moved slightly in favor of civil unions, and gay marriage is favored by under 25 youth.
By 2012, 2016 it may not be as big a deal, with maybe a dozen states already on board.

661 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:10:58pm

re: #651 astronmr20

it should have STOPPED AT THAT.

True. He was just a modern day Navin Johnson from a random page in the new phone book.

662 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:11:08pm

re: #621 artdog

Exactly! The issue is completely upside down. It's not "for gay marriage" as much as: Government (fed, state and local) out of everybody's bedroom!

(Sure, if government didn't give the seal of approval to man-woman marriage, you'd have to sort out tax issues, and watch out for polygamist child-abuse situations. But STILL....)

I wish there were such a thing as an economically conservative, socially liberal party in the US. Unfortunately, the Libertarian party is too extreme in their views to be mainstream. Why can't there be a political party that matches where most American sentiments lay?

663 jcm  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:11:08pm

Kids woke up.....
Later....

664 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:11:28pm

re: #652 Million Dollar Man

WTF are you talking about?

665 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:11:30pm

re: #660 avanti

True, but the bar is moving. Just recently polling moved slightly in favor of civil unions, and gay marriage is favored by under 25 youth.
By 2012, 2016 it may not be as big a deal, with maybe a dozen states already on board.

By court order? or popular vote? legislation?

666 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:11:32pm

re: #648 mikeymom

prayers to you--let us know, please?

Thanks, like I say, it's not life threatening, only happens once in a blue moon, then it's feels scary, like a cardio session on steroids. Last time it happened, last Aug. my heart rate went up to 180 beats a minute.

I take a drug that helps keep it from happening. You don't even have to take the drugs if you don't want to, but I'd rather not put up with the rapid heart rate.

There is even physical ways to stop it, such as holding your breath and squeezing or squatting down and pushing. Interrupts the electrical pluses to the heart for a second.

667 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:11:33pm

re: #660 avanti

True, but the bar is moving. Just recently polling moved slightly in favor of civil unions, and gay marriage is favored by under 25 youth.
By 2012, 2016 it may not be as big a deal, with maybe a dozen states already on board.

It's an issue of minority rights in any case. Gays are what, 10 percent of the population?

668 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:02pm

re: #659 Sharmuta

Dianna misses all of you guys. She wanted me to share that.

Did I miss something? Is Dianna ok?

669 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:06pm
670 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:08pm

re: #646 Mich-again

Recruit for what?

"They want you!
They want you!
They want you as a gay recruit!"

/Village_People

671 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:11pm

re: #645 Desert Dog

But, the question is, will the Marines come and picket out front and make them close down their recruitment center?

They'd better have one hell of a enlistment bonus to get the hetro's to sign up to switch.

672 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:14pm

re: #636 Desert Dog

Hard to believe that little river is so powerful.

And it carved that GandGully, all in less than 5000 years!

673 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:21pm

re: #662 BryanS

I wish there were such a thing as an economically conservative, socially liberal party in the US. Unfortunately, the Libertarian party is too extreme in their views to be mainstream. Why can't there be a political party that matches where most American sentiments lay?

The Democrats?

Or at least the (Bill) Clinton-era ones.

674 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:41pm

re: #664 Mich-again

WTF are you talking about?

I'll second that.

675 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:42pm

re: #664 Mich-again

WTF are you talking about?

Sorry, I know I shouldn't have mentioned those units for security reasons. But the actual names are still secret.

676 Dr. Shalit  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:12:47pm

re: #654 irongrampa

Boone's Farm is for when Thunderbird's unavailable.

irongrampa -

"T-Bird" is for when you can't get Cisco or Richard's Wild Irish Rose.

-S-

677 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:14pm

re: #657 Killian Bundy

Oh, I don't know, because it was a Christian newspaper and evangelicals love the homosexual but frown on homosexuality?

/registering as a Republican, if he even is, makes him a national spokesman for the GOP?

OK, I'll grant you this. I'm not saying he's a full fledged rep. Otherwise, let's agree to disagree.

678 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:15pm

re: #660 avanti

True, but the bar is moving. Just recently polling moved slightly in favor of civil unions, and gay marriage is favored by under 25 youth.
By 2012, 2016 it may not be as big a deal, with maybe a dozen states already on board.

/two different concepts, who's not in favor of civil unions, as long as it's not multiple partners or inter-species?

679 Lynn B.  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:17pm

re: #634 BryanS

I think it is possible that you fear gay people. It is not rational, I think, to fear that they can "recruit" straight people. Think about yourself and anyone else you know. Could you or they be convinced to be gay?

Good point.

And by the same token, it is not rational, I think, to fear/hope/aspire that you can "recruit" gay people to be straight. For the same exact reason. Could you (a straight person) be convinced to be gay? Could you (a gay person) be convinced to be straight?

It doesn't work that way. And yet, in one direction we (some of us) call it a threat and in the other we (others of us) call it a virtue.

As long as there's no coercion or exploitation involved, between consenting adults, the conservative position should be to find something else to focus on.

680 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:19pm

re: #665 Desert Dog

By court order? or popular vote? legislation?

Yes, a little of each.

681 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:44pm

re: #664 Mich-again

WTF are you talking about?

I'm a bit confused myself.

"Aren't you a little light in the loafers for a stormtrooper ?"

WTF.

682 Racer X  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:45pm

Answer: Liketolikapus

Question: What is a gay dinosaur?

683 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:50pm

re: #666 Walter L. Newton

i know what you are referring to--good luck guy.

684 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:13:59pm

re: #675 Million Dollar Man

Sorry, I know I shouldn't have mentioned those units for security reasons. But the actual names are still secret.

Riiiight.

685 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:14:12pm
Alan Colmes says:

Who on the right, in addition to Meghan McCain, will stand up and say this guy doesn't speak for them.

Not for nothing have I been calling Colmes "Skeletor von Strawman" for a couple of years now.
He is making the allegation, let him support it. The "right" does not have the burden of proving him wrong. That is not how logic works.

686 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:14:13pm

re: #675 Million Dollar Man

Sorry, I know I shouldn't have mentioned those units for security reasons. But the actual names are still secret.

Are you Sean Hannity?

687 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:14:17pm

re: #671 avanti

They'd better have one hell of a enlistment bonus to get the hetro's to sign up to switch.

That's probably the biggest obstacle to gay recruitment. Heteros usually are very prickly about joining a gay army and have to be given a major benefits package.

688 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:14:32pm

re: #667 Million Dollar Man

It's an issue of minority rights in any case. Gays are what, 10 percent of the population?

What Percentage of the Population is Gay?

689 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:14:36pm

re: #664 Mich-again

WTF are you talking about?

Step away from the computer.

690 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:15:06pm

re: #689 Walter L. Newton

Step away from the computer.

Step away from the crack pipe.

691 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:15:17pm

re: #678 Killian Bundy

/two different concepts, who's not in favor of civil unions, as long as it's not multiple partners or inter-species?

Lots of social conservatives are against civil unions.

692 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:15:30pm

re: #661 Mich-again

True. He was just a modern day Navin Johnson from a random page in the new phone book.

I think you've found your special purpose!

693 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:15:33pm

re: #660 avanti

Who gives a shit about the under 25 opinion. They voted for Obama and they didn't know why.

694 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:15:59pm

re: #691 avanti

Lots of social conservatives are against civil unions.

/too late

695 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:16:11pm

re: #688 Desert Dog

What Percentage of the Population is Gay?

Hmm.. didn't realize that. I never looked at the stats, though.

696 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:16:28pm

re: #693 BatGuano

I voted for McCain, and I knew why.

/doesn't mean I don't regret it.

697 mikeymom  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:16:57pm

night all--and--million dollar dude is pulling your------leg--

698 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:16:58pm

re: #691 avanti

Lots of social conservatives are against civil unions.

Lots of Democrats are too....even your fearless leader is against gay marriage. Perhaps Olbermann will mock him tomorrow for that daring policy position?

699 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:16:59pm

re: #667 Million Dollar Man

10 per cent is what they want you to believe.

700 Mich-again  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:17:09pm

Most married couples wish they had a civil union.

701 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:17:19pm

re: #623 RememberSekhmet? Very thoughtful comment. But when you say social conservatives these days, you really have to spell out what you mean, for too many people think that SoCons = the Religious Right or folks who want to teach ID in the public schools and the like.
You said "The GOP would do well to find it.", referring to common ground between SoCons and
Social moderates in the GOP. But the problem is that most honest to God Republicans don't want to interfere with other peoples lives, including sexuality (except in the case of minors or handicapped folks and those who's idea of sex is killing someone at the "appropriate time"). The reality is, it seems to me, that the damn government (all of it, Fed and State) are too big, too many people in government positions (and I include the MSM here if we're talking about Democrats in Government) are too involved in our daily lives. Damn it I want the government out of our lives except to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic and to provide for the common good - and the common good includes some Federal Agencies like the CDC, and - because it's been around for SO LONG, social security and Medicare. But they have no right to mess around with individual freedom of speech - not even "hate speech" (unless said hate speech tries to get someone(s) killed or have violence visited on them). If we could turn down - not off - the money spigot in Washington and in the States, we would have less governmental interference in our daily lives.
And we'd have to start to take responsibility for our own actions or omissions. And frankly, I think that the last thing I mentioned - individual responsibility is what scares MANY people, left and right.
In short, I don't see common ground between GOP social moderates and GOP SoCons.

702 Velvet Elvis  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:17:30pm

reclisted dailykos thread on this. They eat this crap up over there:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

703 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:17:39pm

re: #669 Iron Fist

The Founders followed the constrained vision- that man is flawed and that without restrictions, will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice. This went for society as well as the formation of our government. I agree that if they saw the amount of power the government wields now, they would faint. I still believe it to be correctable at this time, but only if we remain true to the vision our Founders adhered to.

[You might also enjoy A Conflict of Visions.]

704 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:17:59pm

re: #699 BatGuano

10 per cent is what they want you to believe.

I'm seeing black helicopters outside my window...

Or wait...on closer inspection, pink helicopters

705 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:18:14pm

re: #700 Mich-again

Most married couples wish they had a civil union.

Or a Pre-Nup....or, an alias and a new passport....or....nevermind

706 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:18:41pm

re: #704 Million Dollar Man

You've been drinking, then?

707 JohnAdams  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:19:02pm

re: #693 BatGuano

Who gives a shit about the under 25 opinion. They voted for Obama and they didn't know why.

I have several under 25 nieces and nephews, friends, etc who are intelligent kids, but HIGHLY indoctrinated and prone to immense peer pressure. The education system has fucked them all up, but I have great hope that a bit more time and experience will smarten them up quite a bit.

708 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:19:08pm

re: #705 Desert Dog

Or a Pre-Nup....or, an alias and a new passport....or....nevermind

100,000 dollars, a full tank of gas, and a pair of dark sunglass.

//Or something like that.

709 Altermite  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:19:17pm

re: #693 BatGuano

Who gives a shit about the under 25 opinion. They voted for Obama and they didn't know why.

Speaking as a member of that generation, the biggest reasons I heard were anti-creationism in schools, climate change, alt energy, and gay rights issues.

I mostly spent time in the biology department, though, so that may have skewed things a bit.

And demographically, the under-25 generation can be pretty important in attitudes like this, because they are usually the ones who have the most chances to vote ahead of them.

710 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:19:23pm

re: #673 laZardo

The Democrats?

Or at least the (Bill) Clinton-era ones.

Not really even the Bill Clinton era ones. Remember Hillary Care™

711 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:19:54pm

re: #687 Million Dollar Man

That's probably the biggest obstacle to gay recruitment. Heteros usually are very prickly about joining a gay army and have to be given a major benefits package.

I'm thinking a multimillion dollar package, some serious drugs and a weekend commitment might get a few. Sadly, not many would go for the 20 year retirement, just not enough money in the world to swing that.

712 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:20:13pm

re: #696 laZardo

The choices were Obama or McCain. If you regret voting for McCain then you must be happy with Obama?

713 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:20:14pm

Who on the left will stand up and declare that Oliver Stone, Whoopi Goldberg, and the Dixie Chicks do not speak for them?

714 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:20:37pm

re: #713 Shiplord Kirel

Who on the left will stand up and declare that Oliver Stone, Whoopi Goldberg, and the Dixie Chicks do not speak for them?

I think they do speak for them

715 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:20:43pm

re: #713 Shiplord Kirel

Who on the left will stand up and declare that Oliver Stone, Whoopi Goldberg, and the Dixie Chicks do not speak for them?

Just those crickets chirping.....

716 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:21:06pm

re: #713 Shiplord Kirel

Who on the left will stand up and declare that Oliver Stone, Whoopi Goldberg, and the Dixie Chicks do not speak for them?

Or Jeanine What's-her-face?

717 Dr. Shalit  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:21:07pm

re: #669 Iron Fist

Iron Fist -

The Rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are more or less Pre-Existing. Where the LEFT is correct is that the Constitution is a Document, Like the Ten Commandments, which limits, in this case the Federal Government.
Now all 'y'all know why they want to change it - "by any means necessary."

-S-

718 Simply Me  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:21:10pm

re: #477 idioma

In many ways, fear of gays has a stronger footing than fear of race.

Even when fear of the black man was all the rage, most everyone was not afraid that somehow a black man would turn their kids black too.

It's a long road ahead.

Actually, I think people were afraid that a black man could turn their grandchildren black, by having sex with their daughters. And black men can, as the children are called black if one parent is black.

With gays, I think people are afraid that they can prevent grandchildren at all. And a culture that promotes sexuality free from the responsibilities of parenthood does wind up with less children.

719 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:21:41pm

re: #706 Sharmuta

You've been drinking, then?

Yeah, I'm trying to soothe my frazzled nerves. I never realized the extent of the Worldwide Gay Gonspiracy to recruit me and my kids until now!

720 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:22:09pm

Must....not....link....YMCA video. Not even the one shot at a retirement center outing. Or the one from a Yankees game.

721 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:22:11pm

re: #716 Sharmuta

Or Jeanine What's-her-face?

The maven of crack-whore chic? Garish Fallow, I think.

722 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:22:19pm

re: #698 Desert Dog

Lots of Democrats are too....even your fearless leader is against gay marriage. Perhaps Olbermann will mock him tomorrow for that daring policy position?

I'm opposed to gay marriage too, but just because of the long history of the meaning of the term. Having said that, it's not a deal killer position either way for me in a candidate.

723 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:22:36pm

re: #704 Million Dollar Man

I wish I were important enough to warrant helicopters.

724 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:23:21pm

re: #713 Shiplord Kirel

I remember a Jimmy Carter thread on a political forum thread on the art site I post on. (Note that it was an art site, so you can accurately predict the "bias.") Many of them said he should just stick to his charity work.

/Popular misconception... Jimmy Carter does NOT run Habitat for Humanity, he's just its #1 endorser.

725 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:23:21pm

Seriously Sharmuta, relax.

Gays are not trying to "recruit" anyone.

726 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:23:24pm

re: #719 Million Dollar Man

You're new- so are you being facetious or what? A number of newbies can shoot themselves in the foot by assuming we'll immediately understand their sense of humor.

727 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:23:50pm

re: #595 Shug

OT:

I want to give props to my wife.
She was given the "citizen" award tonight by our city council.

A few months ago she spotted a little boy who was lost, ( he lives 10 miles from where he was wandering around ) and she took him to the police station.
Our local PD and the surrounding PD's ( including a chopper) had been looking for him for hours.

I don't think I would have had the intuition to stop and ask him if he was OK or not, but she did and I am very proud of her

GOOD FOR HER! I saw a little lost boy the other day when I was whizzing by the Art Museum--and couldn't stop--but called 911--it was torture, but finally after a couple of minutes, I began to yell. THEN they sent someone. When you hear 911 calls --on TV, for example--sometimes you want to scream at the operator--for Christ's sake DO something!

728 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:24:03pm

re: #725 Million Dollar Man

No- quit assuming we get your jokes, newbie.

729 JohnAdams  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:24:35pm

Given that there are "civil unions" all over the place, what is the exception to gay marriage--other than purely philosophical, religious, or emotional?

730 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:24:37pm

re: #728 Sharmuta

No- quit assuming we get your jokes, newbie.

we got it. we just didn't laugh

731 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:24:39pm

re: #701 realwest

But the problem is that most honest to God Republicans don't want to interfere with other peoples lives, including sexuality (except in the case of minors or handicapped folks and those who's idea of sex is killing someone at the "appropriate time").

Says realwest....

However, the OK GOP platform says:

1. We oppose the promotion of homosexuality, the elimination of laws against sodomy, and the granting of minority protection or special status to any person based upon sexual preference or lifestyle choices.

732 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:25:12pm

re: #724 laZardo

/Popular misconception... Jimmy Carter does NOT run Habitat for Humanity Hamas, he's just its #1 endorser.

There, fixed that for ya!

733 DaMav  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:25:21pm

Fine, he's politically incorrect. Now how about the media busily scurrying about calling Miss California a B & a C because she has the same position on gay marriage as their beloved Obama.

I was pretty neutral on the issue but after what has been happening to anyone daring to challenge the orthodox liberal opinion on Prop 8, I would actively and gladly oppose gay marriage just to cut these hate filled obnoxious gay agenda people off at the knees until they learn some manners.

Oh and by the way CNN just released a poll showing Americans oppose gay marriage by ten points. So how exactly would opposition to gay marriage be hurting the Republicans again?

734 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:25:21pm

re: #678 Killian Bundy

/two different concepts, who's not in favor of civil unions, as long as it's not multiple partners or inter-species?

Interspecies? That depends. What about Klingons?

735 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:25:41pm

re: #728 Sharmuta

No- quit assuming we get your jokes, newbie.

All joking aside: gays are not the enemy and they're not trying to recruit your kids.

If you seriously believe they are, you are having paranoid delusions.

736 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:02pm

re: #710 BryanS

I was 7 when that all went down. All I heard is that it got shot down like Cheney's hunting buddy, for reasons I have yet to find out. Other than that, Clinton left in 2000-1 with a budget surplus.

re: #712 BatGuano

I'm content, that's for sure. It's nice to see that gay marriage is being legalized - and then the issue just finally fading away/put to rest after the "rush" - in their respective states (save for perhaps California.)

/forgot to mention, I'm 21.

737 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:06pm

re: #730 Shug

we got it. we just didn't laugh

It's why I always advice newbies to use sarc tags until we get to know them. Could have saved SpaceJesus a lot of bad karma.

738 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:10pm

re: #733 DaMav

Fine, he's politically incorrect. Now how about the media busily scurrying about calling Miss California a B & a C because she has the same position on gay marriage as their beloved Obama.

I was pretty neutral on the issue but after what has been happening to anyone daring to challenge the orthodox liberal opinion on Prop 8, I would actively and gladly oppose gay marriage just to cut these hate filled obnoxious gay agenda people off at the knees until they learn some manners.

Oh and by the way CNN just released a poll showing Americans oppose gay marriage by ten points. So how exactly would opposition to gay marriage be hurting the Republicans again?

Because MSNBC and CNN say so

739 ShanghaiEd  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:12pm

NelsFree writes:

...My son understands what homosexuality is about and rejects it.

The way you phrase that blows my mind, NelsFree. It would be the same as me saying, "My son understands what barometric pressure is about, and he rejects it" or, "My daughter understands what blondness is about, and she accepts it."

It's impossible to "accept" or "reject" something that is a fact of life in the world. You can reject a person solely because they have that quality. It's called bigotry.

740 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:13pm

re: #639 astronmr20
and
re: #656 Flyers1974
You are both correct that McCain and the GOP tried to take advantage of Joe the Plumbers' experiences at having the audacity to ask candidate Obama a legitmate question. Joe took whatever he could out of this - remember some asshat in Ohio or Michigan Government went public with an inquiry about whether or not Joe had been paying his child support - took about four days before the news reported that the kid was living with Joe, he had custody. His life was ripped to shreds by the MSM and by the Democratic Party - so he got used by McCain and (hopefully for his sake) got some money out of all the exposure. So what? McCain didn't hold Joe up as some sort of intellectual or even as someone SPEAKING for the Party, but as an example of how far to the LEFT Obama and the MSM had gone.
Do either of you feel that Joe was used and abused by the MSM and by Obama's version of the Democratic party?

741 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:17pm

re: #722 avanti

I'm opposed to gay marriage too, but just because of the long history of the meaning of the term...

And what does that mean? What term would you prefer? What the fuck does it matter what it's called as long as two people are happy, stable and committed to each other?

742 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:32pm
743 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:42pm

re: #732 Macker

/snickering

//upding for you

744 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:26:45pm

re: #735 Million Dollar Man

All joking aside: gays are not the enemy and they're not trying to recruit your kids.

If you seriously believe they are, you are having paranoid delusions.

I don't think that. You were the one posting comments about recruitment, not me.

745 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:27:38pm

re: #707 JohnAdams

I hope so too. This is liberalism is taught in school.

746 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:27:56pm

This just in;

What people do with their genitalia for entertainment is no indication of their value as a human being, their position in society, or their morals.


Message ends..

747 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:28:08pm

re: #741 Walter L. Newton

And what does that mean? What term would you prefer? What the fuck does it matter what it's called as long as two people are happy, stable and committed to each other?

What about "civil unions"?

748 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:28:27pm

re: #744 Sharmuta

I don't think that.

Well I'm glad. This anti-gay rhetoric is exactly the kind of thing alienating many voters from the GOP.

749 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:29:18pm

Reactionary right on the wax, Loon left on the wane.

Unhappy loonacons meet palliated moonbats.
And I say to myself, what a wonderful world...

750 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:29:18pm

re: #747 Macker

What about "civil unions"?

Why are people so concerned about semantics? Call it whatever you want.

Gays should be allowed to legally get married.

751 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:29:32pm

Some of my favorite couples are gay. Some of them might want to marry. I say let 'em.

752 JohnAdams  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:29:51pm

re: #742 TheSextons

Nice. That's probably been building up for quite a while? Please, share more.

753 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:29:54pm

re: #748 Million Dollar Man

Well I'm glad. This anti-gay rhetoric is exactly the kind of thing alienating many voters from the GOP.


Sharmuta
Registered since: Feb 13, 2007 at 1:54 pm
No. of comments posted: 51,969
No. of links posted: 807
Karma: 74,189

VS.

Million Dollar Man
Registered since: May 3, 2009 at 7:57 pm
No. of comments posted: 33
No. of links posted: 0
Karma: 12

No offense to you MDM, but you are in no position to lecture Sharmuta about anything on this blog.

754 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:30:19pm

re: #709 Altermite

I was just saying that they voted for Obama. I don't give a shit why.

755 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:30:26pm

re: #725 Million Dollar Man

Seriously Sharmuta, relax.

Gays are not trying to "recruit" anyone.

Ok, let me explain this to you, and I am being serious.

Here at LGF, when we want to leave a comment that is meant to be satirical or sarcasm, we end our comments with a sarcasm tag, which is usually a slash (/).

Or we use the word "sarc" or "/sarcasm" or something to indicate we were trying to make a humorous or satirical remark.

We do this so everyone is aware of the tone of our comment. And so people from other blogs will not link to our comments in an effort to make us look bad.

So, a suggestion, use a sarcasm tag if you are being sarcastic, otherwise, your intentions may be mistaken.

Please take this advice to heart, your account here depends on it.

756 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:30:36pm

re: #736 laZardo

I was 7 when that all went down. All I heard is that it got shot down like Cheney's hunting buddy, for reasons I have yet to find out. Other than that, Clinton left in 2000-1 with a budget surplus.

Give Obama a Gingrich opposing him in congress, and even he will start achieving like Clinton did. What a difference a Congress makes! I only hope Obama doesn't cram big government down our throats under the guise of dealing with crisis. Funny, I though only totalitarian dictatorships thrived on crisis to drive their agenda. Silly me.

757 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:30:38pm

re: #748 Million Dollar Man

Well I'm glad. This anti-gay rhetoric is exactly the kind of thing alienating many voters from the GOP.

and your comments ( when they will be taken out of context ) don't help either.

I got your jokes. Everybody did. I wasn't sure at first whether or not you were a below avg MOBY or not. I decided that you were not.
but your comments will be taken literally by the people who like to cherry pick comments and post them on their hate blogs

758 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:31:00pm

re: #753 Desert Dog

Sharmuta
Registered since: Feb 13, 2007 at 1:54 pm
No. of comments posted: 51,969
No. of links posted: 807
Karma: 74,189

VS.

Million Dollar Man
Registered since: May 3, 2009 at 7:57 pm
No. of comments posted: 33
No. of links posted: 0
Karma: 12

No offense to you MDM, but you are in no position to lecture Sharmuta about anything on this blog.

What the hell does post count have to do with anything? Is Sharmuta somehow more of an authority on gay marriage because s/he's posted on LGF?

759 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:31:09pm

re: #731 freetoken

Looks like they got rid of that wording.

The link is for the 2009 version.

760 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:31:12pm

re: #746 swamprat

This just in;


Message ends..

Who said that?
I'll bet a pedophile or a rapist.

761 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:31:46pm

re: #748 Million Dollar Man

I have homosexual/bi-sexual family members. I love them very much, and see no reason why their relationships are any threat to my heterosexuality or my ability to marry a man.

762 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:32:39pm

re: #758 Million Dollar Man

Remember to put this at the end of sarcasm or jokes that might be misconstrued by readers out there: "/" - this is known as a sarc tag. You'll thank me later.

763 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:32:46pm

re: #713 Shiplord Kirel

Who said Oliver Stone, etc..., speaks for the left? No doubt thay are Democrats, but that doesn't mean they speak for the left. For the record, they don't speak for me.

764 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:33:03pm

re: #760 katemaclaren

ok . Consenting adults.

picky, picky

765 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:33:09pm

re: #753 Desert Dog

Registered since: Feb 13, 2007 at 1:54 pm
No. of comments posted: 51,969

Boy, do the per day math on that.

/that's pretty much a 24/7 full time job

766 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:33:28pm

re: #758 Million Dollar Man

What the hell does post count have to do with anything? Is Sharmuta somehow more of an authority on gay marriage because s/he's posted on LGF?


Hey, before you go off on Sharmuta, please read my re: #755 Walter L. Newton carefully.

Some good advice for a newbie.

767 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:33:32pm

re: #758 Million Dollar Man

What the hell does post count have to do with anything? Is Sharmuta somehow more of an authority on gay marriage because s/he's posted on LGF?

You're right, we are all wrong and you are right, we cede the floor to your superior intellect :-)

Actually, if you read most of the posts in this blog you'll find a fairly enlightened view of gays in general. Any outright homophobic posts are mashed down by fellow posters.

768 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:33:49pm

re: #741 Walter L. Newton

And what does that mean? What term would you prefer? What the fuck does it matter what it's called as long as two people are happy, stable and committed to each other?

Walter, I have to say I have no logical answer to your question. My brain tells me you are correct, yet I still personally prefer that traditional marriage be between a man and a woman with full rights, civil unions for gays. If you asked me how I'd vote on the issue today, I'd abstain.

769 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:33:52pm

re: #757 Shug

and your comments ( when they will be taken out of context ) don't help either.

I got your jokes. Everybody did. I wasn't sure at first whether or not you were a below avg MOBY or not. I decided that you were not.
but your comments will be taken literally by the people who like to cherry pick comments and post them on their hate blogs

I say screw 'em. LGF doesn't need to worry what other people, especially on loony blogs, think.

770 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:00pm

re: #559 Macker

You really do need to get an avatar from "The Race"...

It shall be done, superior sir!

771 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:02pm

re: #762 Catttt

Remember to put this at the end of sarcasm or jokes that might be misconstrued by readers out there: "/" - this is known as a sarc tag. You'll thank me later.

See my re: #755 Walter L. Newton

772 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:02pm

re: #760 katemaclaren

Who said that?
I'll bet a pedophile or a rapist.


My mother said that many years ago.

773 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:05pm

re: #750 Million Dollar Man

Most of my gay friends do not want, or need, gay marriage, and would be happy beyond belief with civil unions. That said, the way I was brought up (like Miss California), marriage is ordained by God between a man and a woman.
End of story. If you don't like it, well, you have your opinion and I have mine.

774 BignJames  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:14pm

re: #729 JohnAdams

Given that there are "civil unions" all over the place, what is the exception to gay marriage--other than purely philosophical, religious, or emotional?


It's the redefining of marriage.....to allow "gay marriage" is to confer special rights to a group. This group currently enjoys the exact same rights as me. I have no objections to "civil unions". Folks that desire to enter a legal property sharing relationship should be given the means to do so....and be able to enjoy any social or legal benefits derived from it.....Just don't call it marriage.

775 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:23pm

re: #764 swamprat

ok . Consenting adults.

picky, picky

;-)
I knew that...just tweaking you a bit.

776 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:32pm

I favor civil unions for homosexuals because society has a vested interest in encouraging stable relationships. On anthropological and evolutionary ground, however, it is not (and cannot be) the equivalent of heterosexual marriage.
Marriage developed in prehistoric times in response to the need to provide a stable and strong framework for the protection and rearing of human young, who were almost uniquely vulnerable and slow to mature in comparison to those of non-human mammals. The real innovation was in making the father permanently and specifically responsible for his own offspring on the basis of biological kinship, since such bonds had always existed with mothers.
Not all heterosexual couples have children, of course, but that is the evolutionary rationale for the institution.

777 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:34:33pm

re: #731 freetoken Oh for cryin out loud. The Oklahoma State GOP platform I have no doubt says a LOT of things a LOT of republicans don't beleive in.
What's the OK Democratic Party platform say about, oh, redistribution of wealth? Taxing small business' out of existence? Taxes in general? Homosexual Marriage?
I swear, I've been involved with politics for 46 years, was an honors Poly Sci major at a well know Univerity and I don't honestly think I've ever read the National Platforms of either the Dems or the Repubs cause they really don't stand for anything except gotcha politics. A small group of hard core paid (usually) party officials write the damn thing up and if the candidate doesn't like it, but doesn't want to alienate people who might otherwise vote for him, he runs away from the Party Platform.
Do you seriously want to make me go over to Kos and see what I can dig up about what they said about that idiot Lamont whom they helped push Lieberman out of CT's Democratic Party?
And what DID the CT Dem platform say in the election year when Lieberman ran as an Independent and beat Lamonts brains out?

778 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:35:07pm

re: #762 Catttt

Remember to put this at the end of sarcasm or jokes that might be misconstrued by readers out there: "/" - this is known as a sarc tag. You'll thank me later.

For example, you can say "That Cattt is a total witch"...but, as long as you put the magic "/" on the end you are safe from retribution......

right Cattt?

JUST KIDDING! ///////////////////////////////////

779 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:35:21pm

re: #769 Million Dollar Man

You might not, but Charles gets the flak, and he appreciates clarity.

780 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:35:22pm

re: #767 Desert Dog

You're right, we are all wrong and you are right, we cede the floor to your superior intellect :-)

Actually, if you read most of the posts in this blog you'll find a fairly enlightened view of gays in general. Any outright homophobic posts are mashed down by fellow posters.

You're missing my point. Posting thousands of comments on a blog does not equal greater wisdom/insight.

781 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:35:32pm

re: #772 swamprat

ack! Sorrrry!

782 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:35:33pm

re: #769 Million Dollar Man

I say screw 'em. LGF doesn't need to worry what other people, especially on loony blogs, think.

I think Lao Stinky would disagree with that statement

783 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:36:24pm

re: #769 Million Dollar Man

I say screw 'em. LGF doesn't need to worry what other people, especially on loony blogs, think.

Let's put it this way. Charles, the owner of this blog would prefer it TOO. Now, if your account means anything to you, you will oblige us and follow our suggestions about sarcasm tags.

784 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:36:28pm

re: #778 Desert Dog

For example, you can say "That Cattt is a total witch"...but, as long as you put the magic "/" on the end you are safe from retribution......

right Cattt?

JUST KIDDING! ///////////////////////////////////

Actually, I have several good friends, including my ex roomie, who are witches. :D

785 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:36:48pm

re: #759 Gus 802

That is the Tulsa County platform. Previously, I linked to the state draft (posted Jan 2009) and the three counties drafts (including Tulsa County) that were available online.

April 18 they had their convention. The news sources said they adopted a 29-page platform. Only the state-wide draft was 29 pages. Two of the counties had drafts extremely similar to the state-wide one. Only the Tulsa county draft was different, being much shorter but also even more religious.

If the OK GOP ever updates their online version I will be sure to check it out. The Wisconsin GOP just voted on new stuff at their convention this past weekend. Up till now, the Wisconsin GOP have been pretty moderate, in keeping their platform free from all that stuff. However, it will be interesting to see if the Wisconsinites will keep the socons at bay.

786 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:37:03pm

re: #780 Million Dollar Man

You're missing my point. Posting thousands of comments on a blog does not equal greater wisdom/insight.

I'm still missing your point. What's the point of your point?

787 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:37:16pm

re: #779 Catttt

You might not, but Charles gets the flak, and he appreciates clarity.

Fine, point taken. But I don't think I've ever heard of LGF taking flak for comments that were obviously tongue in cheek.

788 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:37:35pm

Warning...Code Pink Pantie Wad Alert!

House Democrats seek $94.2 billion in emergency funds

Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives will seek passage in coming weeks of $94.2 billion in emergency money for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and other programs, including $2 billion more to prepare for an influenza pandemic.


House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, outlining the legislation for reporters, also said the legislation would include $2.2 billion to fund some C-17 airplanes for the Pentagon.

This could get ugly on the left.

789 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:37:45pm

re: #780 Million Dollar Man

MDM, careful there. I don't think you're quite ready to get off the porch and run with the big dogs just yet. Woof.

790 gander  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:37:50pm

Joe should lay-off the political/social commentary. I gotta admit though, I really enjoy his TV show where he and his business partner and their team of young apprentices hunt for ghosts in old hotels, abandoned hospitals and creepy houses.

791 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:37:54pm

re: #756 BryanS

Well, he is drawing back the torture culture that helped define the previous administration.

Seriously though, it seemed to have been really bad (or not at all?) if - at least what's on Wiki - that there was one helluva PR campaign against it.

792 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:38:04pm

re: #780 Million Dollar Man

You're missing my point. Posting thousands of comments on a blog does not equal greater wisdom/insight.

And are you missing OUR point...

See my re: #755 Walter L. Newton

793 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:38:05pm

re: #787 Million Dollar Man

Fine, point taken. But I don't think I've ever heard of LGF taking flak for comments that were obviously tongue in cheek.

LOL! Just wait. You will.

794 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:38:10pm

re: #783 Walter L. Newton

Let's put it this way. Charles, the owner of this blog would prefer it TOO. Now, if your account means anything to you, you will oblige us and follow our suggestions about sarcasm tags.

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

795 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:38:31pm

re: #780 Million Dollar Man

You're missing my point. Posting thousands of comments on a blog does not equal greater wisdom/insight.

maybe not, but what it does do is give a track record of wisdom and insight.

796 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:39:04pm

re: #785 freetoken

That is the Tulsa County platform. Previously, I linked to the state draft (posted Jan 2009) and the three counties drafts (including Tulsa County) that were available online.

April 18 they had their convention. The news sources said they adopted a 29-page platform. Only the state-wide draft was 29 pages. Two of the counties had drafts extremely similar to the state-wide one. Only the Tulsa county draft was different, being much shorter but also even more religious.

If the OK GOP ever updates their online version I will be sure to check it out. The Wisconsin GOP just voted on new stuff at their convention this past weekend. Up till now, the Wisconsin GOP have been pretty moderate, in keeping their platform free from all that stuff. However, it will be interesting to see if the Wisconsinites will keep the socons at bay.

Oh, right. That was from a previous article on LGF. Didn't notice the Tulsa County right away. Maybe they'll revise the state platform in a similar fashion. Notwithstanding the other anti-science, anti-vax entries.

797 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:39:16pm

re: #774 BignJames

It's the redefining of marriage.....to allow "gay marriage" is to confer special rights to a group. This group currently enjoys the exact same rights as me. I have no objections to "civil unions". Folks that desire to enter a legal property sharing relationship should be given the means to do so....and be able to enjoy any social or legal benefits derived from it.....Just don't call it marriage.

You say gay marriage, I say civil unions. Let's call the whole thing off! More seriously, semantics seem to have a large sway on motivating religious based opposition to gay marriage/unions/whatever.

798 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:39:22pm

re: #794 Million Dollar Man

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

We are all kinda fond of Sharmuta around here, so we are just saying be prepared to get a load of heat if you decide to have it out with her.

799 irongrampa  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:39:27pm

re: #747 Macker

Civil union will work fine for me. Marriage (my view) is between man and woman. Anything else is an aberration.

Having said that, I don't give a shit if two same sex individuals wish to keep a life together. If civil unions can provide the necessary protections as marriage does, great.

The problem for me is when it gets shoved in my face, incessantly and stridently. I don't run around prosletyzing my heterosexual union--I expect that same respect from gays.

Rant off.

800 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:39:31pm

re: #794 Million Dollar Man

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

Around here, we're all a bit of moderators in that we try to assist Charles in keeping his house nice.

801 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:40:02pm

re: #798 Desert Dog

Aww- thank you.

802 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:40:07pm

re: #763 Flyers1974

Who said Oliver Stone, etc..., speaks for the left? No doubt thay are Democrats, but that doesn't mean they speak for the left. For the record, they don't speak for me.

I was mocking Alan "Strawman" Colmes, who will obviously assume that Joe the plumber bigot speaks for the "right" unless everyone from George Will to Sarah Palin fall over themselves to repudiate him.

803 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:40:08pm

re: #795 Shug

maybe not, but what it does do is give a track record of wisdom and insight.

I dunno. Still seems silly to me. If someone makes a good argument, it's a good argument whether or not they've posted 100000000 times before.

People with zillions of comments who said asinine/offensive things were banned here before I'm sure.

804 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:40:12pm

re: #794 Million Dollar Man

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

Not a mod. He's a rocker.

Different London gang entirely.

805 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:40:16pm

re: #799 irongrampa

If I could give you 1,000 updings I would!

806 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:40:56pm

I just noticed my two current favorite vids on youtube are a (great) gay chorus (I think Killgore linked it originally - hat tip) and sweet pics of Twiggy Ramirez and Marilyn Manson set to "I Only Want to Be with You," sung by Twiggy Lawson! Sweet if you're a fan, and I am.

807 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:00pm

re: #804 swamprat

Not a mod. He's a rocker.

Different London gang entirely.

I'm not a mod or a rocker- I'm a mocker.

/Shamelessly stolen from The Beatles

808 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:06pm

Shug Jr has 3 teeth.
And he will sink all 3 of them into the first person who messes with auntie Sharm.

no sarc

809 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:30pm

re: #804 swamprat

Not a mod. He's a rocker.

Different London gang entirely.

He's a mocker (quoting Ringo)

810 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:31pm

re: #803 Million Dollar Man

I dunno. Still seems silly to me. If someone makes a good argument, it's a good argument whether or not they've posted 100000000 times before.

People with zillions of comments who said asinine/offensive things were banned here before I'm sure.

You need to chill out because you're a noob. I'd take their advise if I were you before you have a meltdown and then wind up hanging out with the psychos over at V2.

811 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:47pm

re: #794 Million Dollar Man

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

We all moderate this blog. You are starting to act like a jerk now. We have some protocol here, and I tried to nicely point that out to you, but it seems you think you are the fucking big dog around here already.

Look MDM. Back off. If you haven't noticed,a number of Lizards have tried to offer you some advice here about posting, and you are just coming back and acting like a asshole.

Yes, Charles will block your account if you don't lighten up and follow some protocol here. He doesn't like this place getting dirtied up with filth.

If you are not interested in using a sarcasm tag when you are trying to be phity and cute, then I advise you to stop posting.

812 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:48pm

re: #809 Desert Dog

GMTA!

813 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:49pm

FWLIW, I think Gays should have equal rights with hetero's under all the laws (some folks forget just how vicious some State laws can be). Some folks think Marriage is a religious concept. I don't.
I think Gays should have the right to marry.
And to go through what straights do in divorces.

814 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:41:50pm

re: #787 Million Dollar Man

It's called "quote mining" ... taken out of context of the thread some comments can be hauled out to disastrous effect at the right moment. Comments live forever unless stinky deletes them, they run back to 2001.
I got what you were saying since I caught Nels comment that kicked it off, some people skim and seen out of context the sarc isn't as evident and they could take you as a moby or troll. Besides that you carried the schtick on wayyyy too long, know when to stop and move on...

815 JohnAdams  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:42:04pm

re: #774 BignJames

It's the redefining of marriage.....to allow "gay marriage" is to confer special rights to a group. This group currently enjoys the exact same rights as me. I have no objections to "civil unions". Folks that desire to enter a legal property sharing relationship should be given the means to do so....and be able to enjoy any social or legal benefits derived from it.....Just don't call it marriage.

Thanks for the explanation. But really, once it passes the legal test, I don't see an objection to calling it marriage other than a cultural or philosophical bridge that some people cannot cross. Trust me, I'm not judging your objection as much as I find it curious. The way I see it, heteros have done a pretty good job of making a mockery of marriage all on their own. And I know many gay couples who struggle like straight people to keep their relationships together, with about the same level of succes/failure.

I think a lot of conservatives are willing to let people live and let live, but they are threatened by the idea that the downfall of traditional marriage means the downfall of traditional family life and values.

816 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:42:24pm

re: #800 Sharmuta

Around here, we're all a bit of moderators in that we try to assist Charles in keeping his house nice.

/well, at ~2.7 comments per hour, 24/7 for over two years, not counting socks, you've got it going

817 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:42:26pm

re: #809 Desert Dog
Sharmuta owes you a coke.

818 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:42:34pm

re: #808 Shug

Give my little Shug darlin a kiss from his Auntie.

819 stuiec  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:42:47pm

From the Guardian (UK).

It's not me. It's you

As a lesbian, I no longer want to be lumped in with a list of folk defined by 'odd' sexual practices

Being nominated for an award is supposed to be a nice thing, right? Well not for me. When I was told a few weeks ago that I had been shortlisted for a journalist of the year award by the gay rights organisation Stonewall, I knew I would not win. I was certainly a worthy contender, but I knew from that moment that all hell was about to break loose.

You need a little history first: in 2004 I wrote a column in this newspaper about a Canadian male-to-female transsexual who had taken a rape crisis centre to court over its decision not to invite her to be a counsellor for rape victims. I questioned whether a sex change would make someone a woman, or simply a man who has had surgery.

The article caused uproar among some sections of the transsexual community and, despite apologising publicly three times about the tone and inappropriate humour in the column, I have never been allowed to forget it.

Once the nomination became public I waited for the transsexual community to kick up a fuss. They did, and organised a massive campaign against me and Stonewall, culminating in a demonstration to protest my nomination outside the awards ceremony. The kerfuffle was not just about me, but deep-seated anger towards Stonewall for refusing to add the T (for transsexual) on to the LGB (for lesbian, gay and bisexual).

In the 1970s and 80s, lesbians were left to our own devices, and mainly organised and socialised separately from gay men. Then, in the late 1980s, along came Section 28, homophobic legislation which forbade schools to "promote homosexuality". HIV/Aids was affecting increasing numbers of gay men, so lesbians offered support and solidarity.

We became "lesbian and gay", but soon bisexuals shouted, "Us too". Transsexuals, having received short shrift from heterosexual society, asked to be included in our rainbow alliance, followed by Queer (anyone who is into "kinky" sex), then Questioning (those having a think about who and how they might shag in the future), and finally (for now) Intersex (those born with biological features that are simultaneously perceived as male and female). The mantra now at "gay" meetings is a tongue-twisting LGBTQQI.

It is all a bit of an unholy alliance. We have been put in a room together and told to play nicely. But I for one do not wish to be lumped in with an ever-increasing list of folk defined by "odd" sexual habits or characteristics. Shall we just start with A and work our way through the alphabet? A, androgynous, b, bisexual, c, cat-fancying d, devil worshipping. Where will it ever end?

On various message boards discussing my nomination, one poster said of me: "She does not have the right to express an opinion on trans matters as she is not trans. Any more than someone who is straight can express an opinion on homosexuality. It's not that her views are different, it is that she is expressing them at all. She has no right!"

Do you see the contradiction here? I am told I should not be nominated for awards from a gay organisation because I am part of one big "queer family" which should, they say, include transsexuals; but I am not allowed to comment on transsexualism. In the meantime, on the same websites, an intersex person was told to shut up by a transsexual, and lesbian feminists who were born women are being told they are neither of these things by a number of women who were born male but believe they make better lesbians than me.

I just want to be left alone. I am not in your gang, I did not ask to be, so please don't tell me I am one of yours, and then tell me off for offending your orthodoxy. Let's have an amicable split, instead of ending up carrying on like The Judean People's Front. Or is it The People's Front of Judea?

julie.bindel@guardian.co.uk

820 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:42:55pm

re: #807 Sharmuta

I'm not a mod or a rocker- I'm a mocker.

/Shamelessly stolen from The Beatles

ahhh, not fast enough

You have seen Hard Days Night recently to remember that one

821 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:42:59pm

re: #794 Million Dollar Man

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

Mods are double super secret. /

822 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:43:24pm

re: #810 Gus 802

What's V2?

823 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:43:34pm

re: #813 realwest

I think Gays should have the right to marry.
And to go through what straights do in divorces.

/Fry-squints, and sees what you said thar.

824 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:44:01pm

re: #820 Desert Dog

ahhh, not fast enough

You have seen Hard Days Night recently to remember that one

My HS BFF and I practically memorized it. Haven't seen it in a while, but I do own a copy on DVD.

825 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:44:23pm

re: #822 katemaclaren

What's V2?

it's the watered down version of V8

and,

it's a scud missile designed by Von Braun for Hilter during WWII

826 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:44:27pm

re: #794 Million Dollar Man

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

Walter is on the right.

827 solomonpanting  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:44:34pm

re: #773 Macker

That said, the way I was brought up (like Miss California)


Dennis Miller remarked at the situation where one's stance on same-sex marriage is enough to cause a woman to lose a beauty contest but not enough to cost someone the Presidency of the US.

828 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:45:05pm

re: #794 Million Dollar Man

Are you a mod? I don't get it.

OK, I'll try and spell it out for you. I've only been here a few months, I'm a leftie, and I voted for BHO, but I'm still here because I listened to the good advice of the regulars. The sarc tag may seem useless to you because you know your intent, but as a newbie, the others may not get it. The old timers can't open the trap door and drop you, but if you ignore their advice and shit in the web masters living room, you will disappear.

829 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:45:10pm

re: #803 Million Dollar Man

We all love some of us specially much and get a little protective sometimes. It's kind of like a family that way. Not logical, maybe, but there you have it.

830 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:45:24pm

re: #822 katemaclaren

What's V2?

You know. Stalker Central. 2. Where the banned sad sacks live and watch.

831 DaMav  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:45:29pm

Regardless of how one personally feels about gay marriage, how ridiculous is it to assert that this issue is driving people away from the Republican Party? Obama himself said he was opposed to it. And it loses repeatedly in national polls, the most recent by 10 points among voters per CNN.

You can make plenty of arguments on the issue itself, on both sides imo. But there is absolutely NO reasonable argument that taking a position contrary to and more liberal than that of Obama is necessary to help the Republican Party.

832 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:45:38pm

re: #826 jorline

Thank you, I think?

And now he runs away, doesn't want to play.

833 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:45:39pm

re: #826 jorline
Hey jorline - how are you doing tonight?

834 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:45:44pm

re: #791 laZardo

Well, he is drawing back the torture culture that helped define the previous administration.

Seriously though, it seemed to have been really bad (or not at all?) if - at least what's on Wiki - that there was one helluva PR campaign against it.

Three people in the entire time of the Bush administration--and then top leaders of Al Queda, and with the bipartisan blessing of the intelligence committees and congressional leadership--were pressured with non life threatening, non-injurious discomfort. Hardly a culture of torture foisted upon us by Bush.

835 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:46:35pm

re: #811 Walter L. Newton

...You are starting to act like a jerk now...it seems you think you are the fucking big dog around here already.... Back off... you are just coming back and acting like a asshole...Charles will block your account...He doesn't like this place getting dirtied up with filth.

Jesus, talk about overreaction.

836 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:46:45pm

re: #802 Shiplord Kirel

Thanks, didn't know. I've heard of Alan Colmes a million times, just never heard him speak.

837 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:47:22pm

re: #835 Million Dollar Man

Jesus, talk about overreaction.

Talk about passive aggressive. Ahem.

838 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:47:24pm

Some on the religious right advance a slippery slope argument against civil unions and gay marriage, claiming that it will lead to pressure to legalize marriages between humans and, say, barnyard animals or inanimate objects.
Of course, this collapses over a little thing known as "informed consent." If some weirdo can get his beloved goat, pig, or Corvette to sign the marriage license, fill out the questionaire, and say the proper things during the ceremony; well, I'd pay money to see that (though not to see it consummated).

839 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:47:32pm

re: #823 laZardo

/Fry-squints, and sees what you said thar.

I think that the first gay couple who married in Massachusetts have now gotten a divorce.

840 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:48:26pm

re: #835 Million Dollar Man

Jesus, talk about overreaction.

No, talk about the way things are around here. Play nice, use sarcasm tags if there is a chance that your comment could be read the wrong way by an outsider and don't pick on the Lizards.

841 TheSextons  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:49:02pm

re: #752 JohnAdams

Nice. That's probably been building up for quite a while? Please, share more.

Thanks. More than anything, I am tired of the fact that no one on the national stage is able to stand up, wave off these trivial issues that the left uses to divide what I think is still an intelligent though quiet majority of thinking rational people. I firmly believe this majority understands the recklessness of leftism on all fronts. But they also have grown tired of the hypocrisy and corruption of the GOP.

Because there is no conservative leadership, the GOP have left a void for the media and any Joe the Plumber or Ms. America contestant to fill.

Accordingly, I think the thinking majority need to regroup and unite under a banner of a few limited nonnegotiable issues (see previous post for proposed issues).

Any other issues - like whether you want to see homosexuals married or not, should be left for the states and localities to decide (though the libertarian in me thinks it is absurd for the government to be marriage's gatekeeper).

There are too many important issues right now to be worried about what two or more competent adults like to do with each other in the privacy of their homes.

Any Christian or Mormon or Muslim or whatever, who thinks that homosexuality is a sin and the pervasiveness of that "sin" is leading us down the road of Sodom, should launch a church-funded crusade to call all the heathen sodomites to repent. But the government IS NOT the proper tool for religious revival.

And it seems absurd to me that these fundamentalists think by "defending marriage" they are going to make a difference ultimately. On the long shot that a Constitutional Amendment is ever ratified restricting marriage to heterosexuals, do those who see homosexuality as a sin think that "queers" will suddenly see the light? Will Adam suddenly have a Road to Damascus moment, based on legislation, and leave Steve for Eve?

842 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:49:12pm

re: #831 DaMav

Regardless of how one personally feels about gay marriage, how ridiculous is it to assert that this issue is driving people away from the Republican Party?

Not sure how many people here have asserted what you claim they have...

What some people, including me, have asserted is that the overt (and increasingly, in some states) religiosity being bundled with the GOP (see the bolded questions Charles highlighted, or my links to the OK GOP platform) is what is driving people away from the GOP.

843 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:49:17pm

re: #838 Shiplord Kirel

Some on the religious right advance a slippery slope argument against civil unions and gay marriage, claiming that it will lead to pressure to legalize marriages between humans and, say, barnyard animals or inanimate objects.
Of course, this collapses over a little thing known as "informed consent." If some weirdo can get his beloved goat, pig, or Corvette to sign the marriage license, fill out the questionaire, and say the proper things during the ceremony; well, I'd pay money to see that (though not to see it consummated).

What if Bob loves Jim and they marry. Then Bob and Jim decide that they both love Nancy, and, lucky for them, she loves both of them. So, they want to get married to each other. Should they be able too? All three will give consent.

844 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:49:24pm

re: #828 avanti

OK, I'll try and spell it out for you. I've only been here a few months, I'm a leftie, and I voted for BHO, but I'm still here because I listened to the good advice of the regulars. The sarc tag may seem useless to you because you know your intent, but as a newbie, the others may not get it. The old timers can't open the trap door and drop you, but if you ignore their advice and shit in the web masters living room, you will disappear.

Oh shit...avanti's out of the closet.
//

845 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:49:36pm

re: #830 Gus 802

I feel mighty ignorant right now. Stalker Central?

846 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:50:23pm

re: #828 avanti

plus you have photos of cool vintage cars

847 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:50:33pm

re: #844 jorline

Oh shit...avanti's out of the closet.
//

Heh. Well certainly the first person I've heard of who said they voted for "BHO."

848 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:50:47pm

re: #843 Desert Dog

Did you see Paint Your Wagon? That's the plot!

849 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:50:54pm

re: #831 DaMav

I support gay marriage and am a democrat, but I must admit, I doubt it drives many people away from the GOP (other than gays themselves I would imagine.)

On the other hand, I would guess that but for "family values" issues, many Democrats would not care enough to vote, just a guess.

850 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:51:03pm

re: #759 Gus 802

Looks like they got rid of that wording.

The link is for the 2009 version.

Well, that could explain why OK has a democrat governor. He's a conservative democrat and signed one of the first serious laws that aimed to limit the population of illegal immigrants in the state.....still a democrat.

851 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:51:39pm

re: #848 katemaclaren

Did you see Paint Your Wagon? That's the plot!

Supply and Demand there, eh?

852 AMER1CAN  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:51:41pm

Most people don't want to join the circus. Joe the plumber is one act in a traveling sideshow.

Joe isn't even part of the big circus anymore. He travels around with that carnival that sets up at your local run down mall and when you drive to work you can see it's always empty and no one is riding any rides and you wonder what the heck can the workers be out doing....

853 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:51:49pm

re: #835 Million Dollar Man

Jesus, talk about overreaction.

Again, a little insight. This is a tough room, you'll likely get a lot of abuse until everyone is comfortable with the new guy in the room. You just walked into a Harley biker bar, and no one has seen your leathers before. Stay polite, and you'll be fine.

854 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:52:16pm

re: #828 avanti

Careful there, hon. Your Karma is going to be creeping back from the magic minus 1,000 again. :D

855 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:52:23pm

re: #832 Walter L. Newton

Thank you, I think?

And now he runs away, doesn't want to play.

It was a compliment Walter...Linc was the cool one.

856 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:52:24pm

re: #832 Walter L. Newton
Hey Walter - read your comment about your echocardiogram tomorrow and want to wish you the best of luck with it.
In fact, I'm gonna pray that it turns out fine!
Oh and btw, if they EVER want you to do a nuclear stress test, tell then NO - NOT EVER!

857 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:52:43pm

TheDailyKos runs over, peers in, rubs it's beady red eyes, and says;

Whoa, that is not the LGF I heard about! I wonder what other lies I have been told?

But just keep your assumptions, it's a lot easier than thinking for yourself.

858 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:52:46pm

re: #849 Flyers1974

I support gay marriage and am a democrat, but I must admit, I doubt it drives many people away from the GOP (other than gays themselves I would imagine.)

On the other hand, I would guess that but for "family values" issues, many Democrats would not care enough to vote, just a guess.

Agreed. I don't think gay marriage is a big issue to most people (other than gays), but it's certainly a turn off when people hear anti-gay rhetoric from a party.

859 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:53:03pm

re: #850 funky chicken

Well, that could explain why OK has a democrat governor. He's a conservative democrat and signed one of the first serious laws that aimed to limit the population of illegal immigrants in the state.....still a democrat.

Blue Dog. There are some pro-life Dem governors as you know.

That was the Tulsa County platform BTW. They still haven't revised the state platform.

860 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:53:04pm

re: #853 avanti

Again, a little insight. This is a tough room, you'll likely get a lot of abuse until everyone is comfortable with the new guy in the room. You just walked into a Harley biker bar, and no one has seen your leathers before. Stay polite, and you'll be fine.

Avanti, would you stop with the automotive metaphors. :)
/

861 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:53:08pm

re: #833 realwest

Hey jorline - how are you doing tonight?

Hi ya RW...how are you my friend?

862 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:53:16pm

re: #850 funky chicken

See my reply to Gus.

Yes, OK has a Democrat governor, in a state with many Republican lawmakers. Not unlike in Kansas, the sane, centrist Democrat becomes governor when the hard-core socons in the GOP try to push their agenda.

Will it continue to be that way?

863 Silvergirl  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:53:45pm

I'm a fan of traditional marriage, and I support civil unions. Caring whether gays marry is pretty far down on my list of what's important, though if I were gay I'm sure that would be different.

I disagree with what Joe the Plumber said here as well as the way it was said. At the same time, I will not dogpile him for it. I wish him to fade into the sunset and not pretend to be a spokesman for conservatives, but I don't wish to plant my boot in his backside and send him down the road.

If lizards could take a quick trip down memory lane (back to October), and remember the adoration for this out of the blue phenomenon, then maybe some of the edge would be softened on many of the remarks above. Lesson learned? It could be that being too quick to embrace causes the bitter stuff that comes later when someone pretty much unknown doesn't continue to speak for you in every instance.

Assorted October remarks with upding numbers:

The problem for the 0bama campaign is Joe is America. If he can't connect with a plumber, he's got problems. 36

Leave it to a plumber to cut through the crap and call it as he sees it. 44

I am proudly donning my plumber's crack all day today in support of Joe. 20

Plumbers deal with REALITY. This Joe guy is credible, and almost everyone knows it. 7

Joe is the October Surprise. Because I guarantee 0bama didn't think door knocking in a working class neighborhood would end up biting him in the ass like this. Nor did the McCain camp realize it would be such a God send.
God bless you, Joe! 26

Joe the Plumber is a card-carrying member of the "Contractor Class" working-class entrepreneurial white guys who don't benefit from the federal state and local government's racial spoils contracting system. He's patriotic, and a quintissential Reagan, Bush, McCain voter, and Obama thinks he's "bitter" and "clings to his guns" He has little in common with the typical Moveon.org Internet liberal who drives a Prius. McCain would be wise to make Joe the Plumber his friend these last three weeks. If Joe had shown up a few weeks earlier, it would be McCain in a walk. 23

Mistake? MISTAKE? The man has courage! He took on and called out THE ONE! and now he's on National TV debating with Dianne friggin Sawyer.
maybe his life will not be the same...but he made no mistake. It is NEVER a mistake to stand up for what you believe and act upon those convictions. 10

864 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:53:50pm

I actually thought of avanti today as I saw a classic Isabella car. I wondered what he might know about that car. Avanti?

865 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:53:52pm

re: #844 jorline

Oh shit...avanti's out of the closet.
//

Like you didn't notice I was riding a unicorn ?/

866 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:54:06pm

re: #843 Desert Dog

What if Bob loves Jim and they marry. Then Bob and Jim decide that they both love Nancy, and, lucky for them, she loves both of them. So, they want to get married to each other. Should they be able too? All three will give consent.

Social conservatives are on a lot more solid ground when they assert that polygamy couldn't logically be excluded if gay marriage and civil unions are accepted. Some polygamists have advanced the same argument.

867 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:54:09pm

re: #849 Flyers1974

I support gay marriage and am a democrat, but I must admit, I doubt it drives many people away from the GOP (other than gays themselves I would imagine.)

On the other hand, I would guess that but for "family values" issues, many Democrats would not care enough to vote, just a guess.

I have one or two gay friends, both Republican.
My son, who died of Aids, was also a Republican. I think the issue is completely invalid, frankly. If it weren't marriage, it would be something else for a certain percentage of that demographic. They are angry--and because so much of it is against themselves, they have to find something outside to push back against. Just my opinion, but I had long talks with my son about this issue before he died.

868 Million Dollar Man  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:54:13pm

re: #853 avanti

. You just walked into a Harley biker bar, and no one has seen your leathers before. Stay polite, and you'll be fine.

You forgot the /sarc tag.

869 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:54:23pm

OT

I didn't vacuum today! First day since I got the Roomba that I didn't.

870 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:54:33pm

re: #856 realwest

Hey Walter - read your comment about your echocardiogram tomorrow and want to wish you the best of luck with it.
In fact, I'm gonna pray that it turns out fine!
Oh and btw, if they EVER want you to do a nuclear stress test, tell then NO - NOT EVER!

Thanks, this is just routine, preventive. I was suppose to go last Oct. and missed the appointment.

871 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:54:52pm

re: #869 Catttt

OT

I didn't vacuum today! First day since I got the Roomba that I didn't.

Does your cat ride the Roomba?

872 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:54:56pm

re: #868 Million Dollar Man

You forgot the /sarc tag.

That's because it's true.

873 eddiebear  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:55:21pm

re: #839 katemaclaren

Correct.

874 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:55:52pm

Obama is a fucking lefty out to destroy the culture and economy of this country. He is doing it intentionally.

875 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:56:10pm

re: #860 Walter L. Newton

Avanti, would you stop with the automotive metaphors. :)
/

OK, he's the guy with the Redskins jersey in the Dallas bleachers. (well, maybe not that bad)

876 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:56:18pm

re: #871 Gus 802

Does your cat ride the Roomba?

No. :D That video is cute.

My domestic shorthair runs away. My Siamese follows it at a distance and gives it the evil eye. The Siamese COULD ride it, as he is a little guy, but the domestic shorthair would crush it (she's huge).

877 TheSextons  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:56:49pm

re: #774 BignJames

It's the redefining of marriage.....to allow "gay marriage" is to confer special rights to a group. This group currently enjoys the exact same rights as me. I have no objections to "civil unions". Folks that desire to enter a legal property sharing relationship should be given the means to do so....and be able to enjoy any social or legal benefits derived from it.....Just don't call it marriage.

Who are you to define marriage?

And bear in mind, I am a born again Christian married thoroughly heterosexual man.

This is about the Rule of Law.

There are to be no laws respecting the establishment of religion. Save for religious principle, there is absolutely no reason to prohibit governments from "calling it marriage."

Say, for example, there is a group of people in this country that thinks Horse Shit has healing qualities.

They revere Horse Shit so much they bathe in it.

But the definition of bathing is to clean yourself, not to cover yourself in FECAL MATTER - WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF CLEAN!

HOLY GOD!

QUICK - PASS LAWS PROTECTING THE DEFINITION OF "BATHE"!

Do you see the absurdly trivial nature of this debate?

If you think homosexuality is a societal illness pursuant to your religious beliefs, that "illness" is the result of a failure of your church to persuade people to adhere to its tenets. Now that your church has failed to lead people to a life of pure heterosexual love, you CANNOT use MY government to rectify your church's failures.

878 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:56:49pm

re: #865 avanti

Like you didn't notice I was riding a unicorn ?/

That was the funniest thing I even seen you post. Let's see, I'm not drinking, I'm not high, I'm not suffering from any lack of sleep, nutrition or blood, hmmmm...

I may ask the doc tomorrow to do a brain scan while I'm downtown./

879 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:56:51pm

Now I have YMCA stuck in my head.

880 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:57:00pm

re: #856 realwest

Hey Walter - read your comment about your echocardiogram tomorrow and want to wish you the best of luck with it.
In fact, I'm gonna pray that it turns out fine!
Oh and btw, if they EVER want you to do a nuclear stress test, tell then NO - NOT EVER!

Hmmm...kinda like what Obama's giving Isreal ?

881 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:57:08pm

re: #868 Million Dollar Man

You forgot the /sarc tag.

OK, I tried my friend.

882 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:57:18pm

re: #876 Catttt

No. :D That video is cute.

My domestic shorthair runs away. My Siamese follows it at a distance and gives it the evil eye. The Siamese COULD ride it, as he is a little guy, but the domestic shorthair would crush it (she's huge).

Ah, the one giving it the evil eye might attack it. The big one would probably burn out the motor!

883 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:57:35pm

re: #843 Desert Dog

What if Bob loves Jim and they marry. Then Bob and Jim decide that they both love Nancy, and, lucky for them, she loves both of them. So, they want to get married to each other. Should they be able too? All three will give consent.

Sure! As long as we can get a good reality show out of it. Only in America!

884 gmsc  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:58:05pm

re: #848 katemaclaren

Did you see Paint Your Wagon? That's the plot!

Youtube Video
885 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:58:08pm

My favorite American poet, who should have been the USA's poet laureate this year, is Mary Oliver. Her partner died not too long ago (that's how I found out that she was gay--I had no idea).

886 BignJames  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:58:13pm

re: #869 Catttt

OT

I didn't vacuum today! First day since I got the Roomba that I didn't.

Do those things work?

887 TheMatrix31  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:58:33pm

re: #863 Silvergirl

I'm a fan of traditional marriage, and I support civil unions. Caring whether gays marry is pretty far down on my list of what's important, though if I were gay I'm sure that would be different.

I disagree with what Joe the Plumber said here as well as the way it was said. At the same time, I will not dogpile him for it. I wish him to fade into the sunset and not pretend to be a spokesman for conservatives, but I don't wish to plant my boot in his backside and send him down the road.

If lizards could take a quick trip down memory lane (back to October), and remember the adoration for this out of the blue phenomenon, then maybe some of the edge would be softened on many of the remarks above. Lesson learned? It could be that being too quick to embrace causes the bitter stuff that comes later when someone pretty much unknown doesn't continue to speak for you in every instance.

Assorted October remarks with upding numbers:

I love that post.

888 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:58:38pm

re: #835 Million Dollar Man

Hey, I've also debated you here, and I also believe you're starting to approach the limit of Lao Stinky's patience. Please cool it, OK?

889 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:58:49pm

re: #869 Catttt

Have you seen YouTube videos of cats riding around on those things! Funny!

890 Optimizer  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:05pm

Let's get a grip.

Joe was all about a working class guy having his "The Emperor Has No Clothes" moment - having some minor success at exposing Obama as the socialist that he is. For that, he ceratinly was something of a national hero. Maybe if McCain had played that for more, things could have been different.

What Joe is spouting off here is actually a toned-down version of what religious people are taught in their churches (along with "atheists are immoral", and all kinds of other twisted nonsense). Yeah, this is probably one of the reasons why America's founding values are in trouble - because it's mostly only guys like Joe who defend them, but they throw this religious crap in with the mix and end up just sounding like a nutjob.

It seems to me that these vitriolic attacks on anybody who has even one unsavory stance on an issue is counterproductive. You know, the US even had to ally with the commies in WWII. There was something more important going on that demanded it.

Obama & his allies are steadfastly working to turn the US into a third world socialist style state, hopelessly mired in debt. Countless millions of us stand to face a significantly deceased lifestyle, as well as the omnipresent degradation and oppression caused by dependancy on the Nanny State. I think that trumps the religious nonsense that some Republicans didn't even manage to push through when they were actually in the majority.

I doubt I could name 10 prominent people who I would give unqualified support to on EVERY issue. Must I throw stones at practically everybody then?

891 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:18pm

re: #866 Shiplord Kirel

Social conservatives are on a lot more solid ground when they assert that polygamy couldn't logically be excluded if gay marriage and civil unions are accepted. Some polygamists have advanced the same argument.

I think that is something that might be coming down the river before too long either way. Our society will tolerate gay marriages soon, so why not that?

892 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:18pm

re: #868 Million Dollar Man

You forgot the /sarc tag.

That's because he was being serious and giving you some sane advice. Take the advice to heart.

You must think that we are just playing games with you. We're not. A number of Lizards have tried to give you some pointers about protocol around here.

Read them again.

893 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:18pm

re: #853 avanti

Again, a little insight. This is a tough room, you'll likely get a lot of abuse until everyone is comfortable with the new guy in the room. You just walked into a Harley biker bar, and no one has seen your leathers before. Stay polite, and you'll be fine.


Even better advice : Don't walk into a biker bar dressed as pee wee Herman

894 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:33pm
895 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:46pm

re: #847 Million Dollar Man

Heh. Well certainly the first person I've heard of who said they voted for "BHO."

Others on LGF did as well.

All views are welcome here, it all depends on how you present them. Several lizards have a butt load of down dings, but they're still welcome to post.

We're almost fair and balanced at LGF.

896 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:49pm

re: #881 avanti

OK, I tried my friend.

He's not into listening tonight. Shame.

897 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 9:59:51pm

re: #788 jorline

Huh. Well, the C-17s would be nice. The AF really needs to replace the 707-based aircraft ASAP.

If Obama does what Bush wouldn't do for the AF, hell, I may just vote for him next time around.

Bush was no Reagan, at least as far as the USAF goes.

898 Desert Dog  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:01pm

Good night all, Mrs. Desert Dog is flicking the lights

899 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:08pm

re: #878 Walter L. Newton


The aliens have taken over his computer again. That, or the medications are wearing off.

900 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:11pm

re: #878 Walter L. Newton


I may ask the doc tomorrow to do a brain scan while I'm downtown./

That should not take long :) Seriously, best of luck with your tests.

901 eddiebear  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:12pm

re: #874 BatGuano

Shirlena?

902 AMER1CAN  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:12pm

re: #787 Million Dollar Man

Fine, point taken. But I don't think I've ever heard of LGF taking flak for comments that were obviously tongue in cheek.

If I told you the ways people will use it to try and harass you or LGF you wouldn't even believe me. Seriously. People target the comments and cherry pick everything that is posted. What people are saying is true.

Just learn what you can do in the sand box and then go make sandcastles.

903 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:15pm

Tonight's moon seen dimly through high thin clouds. Hope nobody was talking to me while I was out snapping this, if so I missed it.

904 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:46pm

re: #893 Shug

Even better advice : Don't walk into a biker bar dressed as pee wee Herman

Unless you know how to dance to Tequila!

905 eddiebear  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:00:56pm

re: #884 gmsc

I loved when Homer Simpson rented it and was upset that it wasn't violent.

Ahh, good times.

906 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:01:02pm

re: #903 Thanos

Nice.

907 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:01:10pm

re: #888 Macker

Hey, I've also debated you here, and I also believe you're starting to approach the limit of Lao Stinky's patience. Please cool it, OK?

Translation, Charles is not going to put up with your shit much longer.

908 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:01:30pm

Speaking of gays, and Republicans...

Where the heck is Throbert?

909 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:02:01pm

re: #907 Walter L. Newton

Translation, Charles is not going to put up with your shit much longer.

That isn't directed at me, is it?

/just makin' sure

910 Big Boots that's BOOTS  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:02:06pm

ha, sorta funny that add are flashing on LGF for Muslima.com - a muslim dating/marriage site.

is that how that works?

911 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:02:31pm

re: #867 katemaclaren

I have one or two gay friends, both Republican.
My son, who died of Aids, was also a Republican. I think the issue is completely invalid, frankly. If it weren't marriage, it would be something else for a certain percentage of that demographic. They are angry--and because so much of it is against themselves, they have to find something outside to push back against. Just my opinion, but I had long talks with my son about this issue before he died.

Pretty heartbreaking, and incisive there Kate. I do hope you have found peace in all that.

912 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:02:44pm

re: #834 BryanS

Three people were confirmed to have been subjected to said discomfort with the bipartisan blessing of the government.

Emphasis on confirmed.

913 Teacake!  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:02:50pm

Speaking of cats. Any cat people here? I have a question. 2 parts. Anyone have to make outdoor cats indoor cats? And I'd like to make some cat projects in the little apartment for them, but I don't have any solid ideas, so I wonder if anyone has some sites with pix for some ideas.

914 eddiebear  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:03:02pm

re: #893 Shug

More advice:
Don't tug on Superman's cape.

915 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:03:07pm

re: #909 Macker

That isn't directed at me, is it?

/just makin' sure

Not, at Million Dollar Meltdown.

916 Irenike  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:03:18pm

re: #634 BryanS

I think it is possible that you fear gay people. It is not rational, I think, to fear that they can "recruit" straight people. Think about yourself and anyone else you know. Could you or they be convinced to be gay?

Joe the Plumber is a turkey, and he does not speak for me. I have had many gay friends in my life, and I used to have a gay male babysitter for my children when they were younger. I am not anti-gay. However, I do believe a certain cultural "recruitment" is taking place that convinces young college students that experimenting with same-sex partners is cool, just as experimenting with various drugs is cool.

When I was in grad school in the 1990's, I had a hippie boyfriend tell me he was trying to work himself up to sleeping with a male friend so that he could broaden his experience. I myself felt a certain subtle pressure, fairly prevalent in my social group, that if I decided to be more than "just friends" with my girlfriends, it would signify that I had broken free of cultural oppression, which was a good thing according to the prevailing norms of the college campus. A male relative of mine, who is definitely straight, was told by a lesbian that with regard to sleeping with a man, he should "try it, just once" to see if he liked it.

Now, if sexual orientation is rigidly fixed by genetics, why would this pressure even exist? It exists for the same reason that leftist argue that oppression of women stems from immutable cultural forces. Logically, these same cultural forces have also worked to shape the male oppressors, who are just as much at the mercy of materialistic determinism as the women are. Ah, but the women are labeled victims of forces beyond their control, while the men are condemned without mercy. Leftists want to have it both ways. They argue that free will ought to be exercised by those who ought to change drastically (straights, males), while oppressed minorities such as women and gays need to be treated with tenderness and understanding and never be asked to change, since drastic change in the victimized groups is impossible.

I do not for a second believe that most gays believe they can "convert" a straight into a gay (or vice-versa). But on a college campus, where hormones run high, hubris is common, and hedonism is practically a religion, think of how exciting it would be if an attractive person with a different sexual orientation wanted to "broaden" his or her horizons with you during a one-night stand. Genetic predisposition be damned in such a case. The experiment would simply be too tempting for some to pass up, especially if alcohol or other mind-altering drugs were in the picture.

917 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:03:57pm

re: #890 Optimizer


hmmm. I also think people who run around saying Obama is a socialist hell-bent on turning America in Cuba are just as nutty as the nut jobs you're complaining about.

you're both hurting the movement.

918 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:04:04pm

re: #913 Teacake!

Speaking of cats. Any cat people here? I have a question. 2 parts. Anyone have to make outdoor cats indoor cats? And I'd like to make some cat projects in the little apartment for them, but I don't have any solid ideas, so I wonder if anyone has some sites with pix for some ideas.

Nail them to the floor in your living room, works all the time./

919 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:04:17pm

re: #891 Desert Dog

I think that is something that might be coming down the river before too long either way. Our society will tolerate gay marriages soon, so why not that?

Agreed. I think it will be a front-burner issue by 2012.

920 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:04:34pm

re: #435 Alouette

I think it is possible that an insecure teenager could be seduced and then told: Once you go gay, you can never go away!

I'd have to say that that person would be either a) already leading that way, or b) so horribly weak willed that they'd be anyone's puppet.

921 gmsc  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:04:39pm

re: #905 eddiebear

I loved when Homer Simpson rented it and was upset that it wasn't violent.

Ahh, good times.

Why do they have to screw up a perfectly servicable wagon story with all that fruity singing?

Youtube Video
922 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:05:01pm

re: #917 SpaceJesus

hmmm. I also think people who run around saying Obama is a socialist hell-bent on turning America in Cuba are just as nutty as the nut jobs you're complaining about.

you're both hurting the movement.

He's not trying to turn us into Cuba, more like France.

923 eddiebear  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:05:12pm

re: #921 gmsc

"Why aren't they killing each other?"

924 swamprat  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:05:30pm

Yeah! Why should gays get all the breaks? Let 'em marry and suffer like the rest of us!


/
925 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:05:49pm
926 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:06:11pm

re: #911 The Shadow Do

I don't know if I ever will find peace in that, but thank you. Even though it has been 15 years, when I think of him, I think of what might have been. He was handsome (looked like Ralph Fiennes twin), talented, funny and was a joy to our entire family all of his life.

927 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:06:39pm

re: #890 Optimizer

What Joe is spouting off here is actually a toned-down version of what religious people are taught in their churches (along with "atheists are immoral", and all kinds of other twisted nonsense).

/and you attend these churches regularly?

928 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:06:49pm

re: #912 laZardo

Three people were confirmed to have been subjected to said discomfort with the bipartisan blessing of the government.

Emphasis on confirmed.

So we have confirmation of bipartisan support for the "culture of torture". Ergo, it was not Bush's culture of torture. Speaker Pelosi herself owns this one too. There is just too much hypocrisy and too much bleating from the left for me to accept the characterization that Bush engendered a culture of torture.

929 eddiebear  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:06:51pm

re: #924 swamprat

And pay taxes at the marriage penalty rate like my wife and I do.

930 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:07:02pm

re: #842 freetoken
Regretfully, "religiosity" also drove and may still drive some people to the Republican Party. And I mean regretfully - I do believe in individual liberty and especially the Bill of Rights.
But I don't know how you keep people from putting an (R) after their name (paraphrasing Michael Steele's comment to me in an e-mail complaining about Specter, Snowe and Collins voting for the "Stimulus Bill")?
It's sort of like the problem some Democrats have with cap and trade in the States where those industries are among the biggest employers in those States or the problem rational Democrats have with the FAR LEFT SWING their party has taken.
I honestly believe that the overwhelming majority of Americans have much more in common than they do that drives them apart. But most Americans feel disenfranchised with both parties - they feel that they have to take extreme positions and scream loudly about them to get their voices heard.

931 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:07:06pm

re: #920 Slumbering Behemoth

I would think that being constantly labeled with the three-or-six-letter-f-word (or four-letter-h-word) for not being "man enough like the rest of us" growing up in school would be a factor as well.

/speaking from experience.

932 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:07:24pm

re: #853 avanti

Again, a little insight. This is a tough room, you'll likely get a lot of abuse until everyone is comfortable with the new guy in the room. You just walked into a Harley biker bar, and no one has seen your leathers before. Stay polite, and you'll be fine.

Actually it's more like seeing a bunch of Canadian Special Forces guys in the Chena Bar in Fairbanks at 3:30 am as they are winding down from Winter excercises and saying "Hey, that's a cute beret..."

933 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:07:32pm

re: #897 funky chicken

Huh. Well, the C-17s would be nice. The AF really needs to replace the 707-based aircraft ASAP.

If Obama does what Bush wouldn't do for the AF, hell, I may just vote for him next time around.

Bush was no Reagan, at least as far as the USAF goes.

Don't scare me like that funky.

I agree with your last statement...my father was a USAF lifer, I spent my first 18 years on AF Bases.

934 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:07:38pm

re: #906 Killgore Trout

Nice.

Thanks

935 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:07:48pm

re: #890 Optimizer

Let's get a grip.

You just got down-dinged, nearly simultaneously, by both Charles and SpaceJesus.

Joe willingly, eagerly, is seeking attention (via his website, for instance) to build his fledgling non-plumbing career. His choice.

936 Teacake!  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:09:03pm

I tend to believe that accepting gay marriage is a set up by certain groups like nambla so that one day they can slip that agenda in as acceptable. I am not making up this idea.

937 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:09:16pm

re: #917 SpaceJesus

hmmm. I also think people who run around saying Obama is a socialist hell-bent on turning America in Cuba are just as nutty as the nut jobs you're complaining about.

you're both hurting the movement.

Bullshit. Оба́ма is a DFC and he makes Dhimmi Carter look like a saint! Remember who he cut his political teeth on. And as long as I can blog, I will point that out.
If you don't like it, too bad so sad.

938 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:09:29pm

re: #933 jorline

Don't scare me like that funky.

I agree with your last statement...my father was a USAF lifer, I spent my first 18 years on AF Bases.

Me too.

Warren
Lackland
Keesler
Clark
Lowery

to name a few

939 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:09:36pm

re: #894 Iron Fist

I finly got fed up with it an gave up sanity for Lent.

LMAO!

940 solomonpanting  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:09:47pm

re: #891 Desert Dog

re: #866 Shiplord Kirel

Social conservatives are on a lot more solid ground when they assert that polygamy couldn't logically be excluded if gay marriage and civil unions are accepted. Some polygamists have advanced the same argument.

I think that is something that might be coming down the river before too long either way. Our society will tolerate gay marriages soon, so why not that?

FWIW, then we'd also be overturning one condition for adding states to the Union since Utah's admission.

941 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:09:47pm

re: #922 Walter L. Newton

He's not trying to turn us into Cuba, more like France.

tell that to the guy I was talking to. He seems to think he's trying to make us into another Cuba.

942 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:09:53pm

re: #890 Optimizer

Let's get a grip.

Joe was all about a working class guy having his "The Emperor Has No Clothes" moment - having some minor success at exposing Obama as the socialist that he is. For that, he ceratinly was something of a national hero. Maybe if McCain had played that for more, things could have been different.

What Joe is spouting off here is actually a toned-down version of what religious people are taught in their churches (along with "atheists are immoral", and all kinds of other twisted nonsense). Yeah, this is probably one of the reasons why America's founding values are in trouble - because it's mostly only guys like Joe who defend them, but they throw this religious crap in with the mix and end up just sounding like a nutjob.

It seems to me that these vitriolic attacks on anybody who has even one unsavory stance on an issue is counterproductive. You know, the US even had to ally with the commies in WWII. There was something more important going on that demanded it.

Obama & his allies are steadfastly working to turn the US into a third world socialist style state, hopelessly mired in debt. Countless millions of us stand to face a significantly deceased lifestyle, as well as the omnipresent degradation and oppression caused by dependancy on the Nanny State. I think that trumps the religious nonsense that some Republicans didn't even manage to push through when they were actually in the majority.

I doubt I could name 10 prominent people who I would give unqualified support to on EVERY issue. Must I throw stones at practically everybody then?

I have to wonder why Obama would want to turn the US into a third world socialist state. I'd imagine it would be a tough job doing that while also trying to win reelection in four years. Is your contention that he doesn't realize the vast majority of the country wouldn't like that? Or is it your contention the country would indeed approve of a third world socialist state. I admit I don't get out enough - can't say I know anyone who wants this.

943 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:10:03pm

re: #928 BryanS

More like I meant that only three people were confirmed to have been waterboarded, and we don't know how many more were "not confirmed" to have been subjected to it, among other various "enhanced interrogation" methods.

That said, one man does not an administration make. Maybe they were oblivious to what was going on or willingly endorsed it knowing it would happen, or were even opportunists, but getting a believable and truthful answer for each and every member of the administration of the time that may or may have not yet been involved will take some time.

Either way, that is the legacy they've left.

944 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:10:17pm

Buh buh but .... we allied with Stalin!

Yeah, and how'd that turn out?

945 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:10:36pm

re: #937 Macker

Bullshit. Оба́ма is a DFC and he makes Dhimmi Carter look like a saint! Remember who he cut his political teeth on. And as long as I can blog, I will point that out.
If you don't like it, too bad so sad.


explain your particular brand of crazy to me without the acronyms please

946 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:10:36pm

re: #936 Teacake!

I tend to believe that accepting gay marriage is a set up by certain groups like nambla so that one day they can slip that agenda in as acceptable. I am not making up this idea.

Wow? Do you really think that? Why?

947 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:10:36pm

re: #927 Killian Bundy
Hey Killian - wonder if he's listened to any of Reverand Jerimiah's sermons - or preachers just like him.
I suspect that there are as many bigots preaching as there are in the rest of the world. And as a percentage of the general population, maybe a great percentage.

948 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:10:53pm

re: #891 Desert Dog

It's interesting that polygamy and other forms of multiple but heterosexual marriage have been legal in all kinds of societies at one time or another (and still are in some). This comes back to the evolutionary argument I advanced earlier, permanent heterosexual unions are rooted in the remote past for compelling reasons of group survival, while gay marriage is a recent development with no real historical precedent.

949 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:11:03pm

re: #917 SpaceJesus

hmmm. I also think people who run around saying Obama is a socialist hell-bent on turning America in Cuba are just as nutty as the nut jobs you're complaining about.

you're both hurting the movement.

Michele would look crappy in green khaki and PBO prefers cigs over a good cigar.

950 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:11:06pm

re: #903 Thanos

Tonight's moon seen dimly through high thin clouds. Hope nobody was talking to me while I was out snapping this, if so I missed it.

I really enjoy your photography. Thanks for sharing.

951 Teacake!  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:11:12pm
I have to wonder why Obama would want to turn the US into a third world socialist state.

Because it is George Soros dream, to destroy this country and Obama is beholden to Soros.

952 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:11:49pm

re: #843 Desert Dog

What if Bob loves Jim and they marry. Then Bob and Jim decide that they both love Nancy, and, lucky for them, she loves both of them. So, they want to get married to each other. Should they be able too? All three will give consent.

YES! And I want to be Nancy. Or I would if I believed in marriage.

So many men; so little time. ~Mae West

953 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:12:09pm

re: #886 BignJames

Do those things work?

Yes! I love it.

954 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:12:38pm

re: #952 Catttt

A hard man is good to find--Mae West.

955 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:12:47pm

re: #941 SpaceJesus

tell that to the guy I was talking to. He seems to think he's trying to make us into another Cuba.

Well, I don't know the guy you were talking to. Obama is not trying to turn the US into Cuba. He is plying a soft socialism on us right now, and it could become harder, depending on some future events.

But who the hell were you talking to. Cuba is a communist nation, not socialist. Hell, England is democratic socialism, and so is France and most of Europe.

Tell this person he doesn't know what he is talking about.

956 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:13:24pm
957 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:13:46pm

re: #950 Sharmuta

I really enjoy your photography. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks - I'm still trying to figure out a way besides manual with this camera to get a shot of the ring around it when there are clouds like this. The ring's too diffuse for a good autofocus, and my eyes are too screwed up for manual...

958 BignJames  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:13:48pm

re: #953 Catttt

Yes! I love it.


I've got carpet/hardwood.....do they transition ok?

959 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:14:00pm

Well, nighty night everyone. Morpheus descending.

960 CynicalConservative  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:14:09pm

re: #956 Iron Fist

For a woman, perhaps you are right, but for a guy, pretty much forget it. The dude making the pass may find himself lying on the floor, next to his own severed head. The head which at this time has no name...

(anybody want to guess the quote?)

Seriously, violence may well ensue, depending on who says what and more importantly who does what.

Highlander for the quote.

961 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:14:39pm

re: #951 Teacake!

Because it is George Soros dream, to destroy this country and Obama is beholden to Soros.

ah, and Obama must listen to Soros otherwise he will reveal Obama's true birth certificate right?

962 Teacake!  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:04pm
katemaclaren

re: #936 Teacake!

I tend to believe that accepting gay marriage is a set up by certain groups like nambla so that one day they can slip that agenda in as acceptable. I am not making up this idea.

Wow? Do you really think that? Why?

Because over the past few decades I've been paying attention to creepy political agendas. Its too complicated for me to explain as I do not have a very good way with words. but pedophilia is behind a lot of crap these days and they have tried to hide in the shadows, while promoting other things and pretending not to be a part of other things.

ITs not so much about changing views on marriage as changing views on what is acceptable.... chipping away little by little.

963 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:04pm

As an attorney, civil unions make estate planiing and health care directives, etc. a bit easier to draft.

/family law is still more complicated for the most part

964 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:07pm

re: #951 Teacake!

Because it is George Soros dream, to destroy this country and Obama is beholden to Soros.

If that is the case, then some of the proposals that Obama made today about going after corporations who hide taxable profits off shore and in other countries, if put into effect, will hurt Soros a hell of a lot.

Doesn't sound so friendly to me.

965 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:12pm

re: #947 realwest

Looking back I think the amount of focus placed on people like Wright and Ayers during the campaign was, well, exaggerated. It was almost like those people would be Cabinet members or something high-ranking post-Inauguration.

Wright is still spewing from his church-run magazine in Chicago, and Ayers is still a college professor doing book tours (with the Mrs. in tow) for those who bother to attend. Not disputing their pasts or anything, but they haven't been catapulted to official prominence since.

966 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:18pm

re: #961 SpaceJesus

ah, and Obama must listen to Soros otherwise he will reveal Obama's true birth certificate right?

Nope. His transcripts.

967 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:25pm

re: #936 Teacake!

I tend to believe that accepting gay marriage is a set up by certain groups like nambla so that one day they can slip that agenda in as acceptable. I am not making up this idea.

Now that is one hell of a stretch. Gay marriage has nothing to do with pedophilia. I've seen the slippery slope argument used before, but not to that extreme.

968 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:46pm

spacejesus, WTF is wrong with you?
You are making some sense to me tonight.

969 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:15:55pm

re: #916 Irenike

Joe the Plumber is a turkey, and he does not speak for me.

On that much we agree :)

When I was in grad school in the 1990's, I had a hippie boyfriend tell me he was trying to work himself up to sleeping with a male friend so that he could broaden his experience.

Liberals do such funny things.

Now, if sexual orientation is rigidly fixed by genetics, why would this pressure even exist?

I understand by your examples you felt those were incidents of recruitment, but I think what you are describing is more typical liberal brain washing/indoctrination that occurs in campus environments--still to this day. The libtards take "broadening your experiences" to an extreme and absurd level. But campus is not reality. In Madison, we like to call the city/campus 72 square miles surrounded by reality--and for good reason.

970 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:16:01pm

re: #945 SpaceJesus

SpaceJesus
(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 15, 2007 at 4:51 pm
No. of comments posted: 553
No. of links posted: 0
vs.
Macker
(Logged in)
Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 11:39 am
No. of comments posted: 5,915
No. of links posted: 165

I've been around long enough so that other lizards know what I'm referring to. If you don't like it, too bad so sad.

971 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:16:06pm

re: #957 Thanos

Thanks - I'm still trying to figure out a way besides manual with this camera to get a shot of the ring around it when there are clouds like this. The ring's too diffuse for a good autofocus, and my eyes are too screwed up for manual...

Ah! I love lunar rings. But photos don't do them justice like seeing it in person. Keep working at it, and you'll figure it out, though.

972 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:16:09pm

re: #962 Teacake!

I think those NAMBLA people are INSANE.

973 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:16:49pm

re: #967 avanti

Now that is one hell of a stretch. Gay marriage has nothing to do with pedophilia. I've seen the slippery slope argument used before, but not to that extreme.

You're scaring me, that's about three or four times I've agreed with you tonight. Maybe you're right about my brain.

974 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:17:07pm

re: #955 Walter L. Newton

Well, I don't know the guy you were talking to. Obama is not trying to turn the US into Cuba. He is plying a soft socialism on us right now, and it could become harder, depending on some future events.

But who the hell were you talking to. Cuba is a communist nation, not socialist. Hell, England is democratic socialism, and so is France and most of Europe.

Tell this person he doesn't know what he is talking about.

his name is Optimizer and his post is up there someplace.

975 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:17:30pm

re: #968 Shug

spacejesus, WTF is wrong with you?
You are making some sense to me tonight.

He's not so bad. In a few months, he might even have positive karma!

976 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:17:47pm

re: #483 Macker

EXACTLY MY POINT. The Feds have to shut the fuck up and let the states decide!

One little problem, the Full Faith and Credit Clause. A marriage license granted in one state must be recognized by all states.

977 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:17:59pm

re: #975 Sharmuta

He's not so bad. In a few months, he might even have positive karma!

Over my dead body :)
/

978 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:18:07pm

re: #972 katemaclaren

I think those NAMBLA people are INSANE.

the ACLU doesn't think so

979 jorline  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:18:08pm

re: #938 Shug

Me too.

Warren
Lackland
Keesler
Clark
Lowery

to name a few

Born at Hill
Davis-Monthan
Harmon, Newfoundland
Offutt
Tachikawa, Japan
Hill...again
Randolph

980 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:18:15pm

re: #954 katemaclaren

A hard man is good to find--Mae West.

My daddy raised me on "It's better to be looked over than overlooked." This was helpful, as I had big boobs and a small waist and got looked at a lot. Consequently, I stand up straight (my mom helped with that by doing that chicken wings thing when I stooped).

981 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:18:31pm

re: #936 Teacake!

I tend to believe that accepting gay marriage is a set up by certain groups like nambla so that one day they can slip that agenda in as acceptable. I am not making up this idea.

Nambla is a deplorable organization that should not be equated with any group in the debate on this issue.

982 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:18:32pm

re: #961 SpaceJesus

ah, and Obama must listen to Soros otherwise he will reveal Obama's true birth certificate right?

The whole Soros influence is overrated. Sure there is some influence and he is a financier but it's not double secret conspiracy. It's starting to remind me of the Haliburton conspiracies during Bush.

983 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:19:08pm

re: #980 Catttt

My daddy raised me on "It's better to be looked over than overlooked." This was helpful, as I had big boobs and a small waist and got looked at a lot. Consequently, I stand up straight (my mom helped with that by doing that chicken wings thing when I stooped).

Dolly!

984 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:19:13pm

re: #973 Walter L. Newton

You're scaring me, that's about three or four times I've agreed with you tonight. Maybe you're right about my brain.

We've got a fundy station south of where I live, I tune in every now and then to see what their latest campaigns are. Right now they are waxing highly homophobic and the "slippery slope" argument is always the one they start with, they usually end with "watch your children"....

985 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:19:21pm

re: #980 Catttt

I feel your pain. So to ease it.....

Youtube Video
986 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:19:35pm

re: #970 Macker


I've been around long enough so that other lizards know what I'm referring to. If you don't like it, too bad so sad.


that's fantastic that everybody seems to know what that is, too bad when you used that acronym you were talking directly to me

987 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:20:12pm

re: #932 Thanos

Actually it's more like seeing a bunch of Canadian Special Forces guys in the Chena Bar in Fairbanks at 3:30 am as they are winding down from Winter excercises and saying "Hey, that's a cute beret..."

I like to think of it as a GWAR concert, with blood spurting and people being chopped to ribbons and fed to the giant you-know-what. /

988 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:20:41pm

re: #974 SpaceJesus

his name is Optimizer and his post is up there someplace.

I don't see anything about Cuba in his post. Are you making that up. I see reference to third world socialism, which doesn't make any sense, since most third world countries are dictatorships, not democratic socialism.

In the most, Obama is flirting with a soft form of democratic socialism. Not good, but not anything near the hyperbole of Optimizer.

989 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:20:49pm

re: #961 SpaceJesus

Careful there SpaceJesus - you're accumulating up-dings, and now Avanti is only 16 down-dings behind you.....

990 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:21:09pm

re: #982 Gus 802

The whole Soros influence is overrated. Sure there is some influence and he is a financier but it's not double secret conspiracy. It's starting to remind me of the Haliburton conspiracies during Bush.

pretty sure those conspiracies actually helped Bush too

991 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:21:25pm

re: #989 freetoken

Careful there SpaceJesus - you're accumulating up-dings, and now Avanti is only 16 down-dings behind you.....

Quick, Avanti! Say something liberal! ;)

992 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:21:26pm

Early market futures says . . .

/ain't givin' up yesterday's gains

993 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:21:33pm

re: #989 freetoken

Careful there SpaceJesus - you're accumulating up-dings, and now Avanti is only 16 down-dings behind you.....

this is not acceptable

994 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:21:44pm

re: #989 freetoken

Careful there SpaceJesus - you're accumulating up-dings, and now Avanti is only 16 down-dings behind you.....

Which one will get the top pick in next years draft ?

too close to call

995 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:21:47pm

re: #986 SpaceJesus

Big Frakkin' Deal. Y'all know how to Google my blog?

996 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:21:52pm

re: #917 SpaceJesus

hmmm. I also think people who run around saying Obama is a socialist hell-bent on turning America in Cuba are just as nutty as the nut jobs you're complaining about.

you're both hurting the movement.

Actually it is naive on your part to think that he does not desire that level of political control (Cuba). However he is constrained by our system of laws and is smart enough to be able to deal with/work through that. He most certainly is a socialist, he simply knows as a practical matter that he will have to advance his ideas incrementally.

Do you think, hypothetical, that he would turn down that sort of power? Do you?

997 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:22:14pm

re: #993 SpaceJesus

You sound like Mr. Spock!

998 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:22:54pm

re: #995 Macker

I don't Macker. Tell me. I'd like to see what you have to say. (Really).

999 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:23:05pm

re: #984 Thanos

We've got a fundy station south of where I live, I tune in every now and then to see what their latest campaigns are. Right now they are waxing highly homophobic and the "slippery slope" argument is always the one they start with, they usually end with "watch your children"....

Yea, it's allow same sex marriage, then it'll be polygamy, then marriage with animals, crazy shit.

1000 Randall Gross  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:23:16pm

Time for me to get some sleeps, g'nite all

Youtube Video
1001 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:23:30pm

re: #962 Teacake!

Because over the past few decades I've been paying attention to creepy political agendas. Its too complicated for me to explain as I do not have a very good way with words. but pedophilia is behind a lot of crap these days and they have tried to hide in the shadows, while promoting other things and pretending not to be a part of other things.

ITs not so much about changing views on marriage as changing views on what is acceptable.... chipping away little by little.

You don't suppose that it might just be liberal types in Hollywood putting more gay characters and stories on TV because that's the hip, self-righteous thing to do? Ockham's razor and all that. I rather think pedos are too busy abusing kids and posting pictures on IRC to bother with political conspiracies. Call me crazy...

1002 Silvergirl  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:23:38pm

Come on, Avanti, you're almost under negative 1000. You can do it! Don't log off till you get there.

1003 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:23:40pm

re: #984 Thanos

Right now they are waxing highly homophobic and the "slippery slope" argument is always the one they start with, they usually end with "watch your children"....

See my comment #205 upstream, on item "6" quoted.

1004 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:24:33pm

re: #926 katemaclaren

I don't know if I ever will find peace in that, but thank you. Even though it has been 15 years, when I think of him, I think of what might have been. He was handsome (looked like Ralph Fiennes twin), talented, funny and was a joy to our entire family all of his life.

Crap Kate, just crap. I wish it could have been otherwise.

1005 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:24:48pm

re: #999 avanti

Yea, it's allow same sex marriage, then it'll be polygamy, then marriage with animals, crazy shit.

Might lead to persecution by the materialists, Darwinists and eventual cohabitation by abnormal heterosexuals!

//

1006 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:24:51pm

In a state like California where they are giving IOU's instead of tax refunds, it seems crazy that people on both sides of the issue, have spent tens of millions of dollar supporting or fighting prop 8
Who knows, maybe 100 million when all is said and done

1007 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:24:56pm

re: #988 Walter L. Newton

I don't see anything about Cuba in his post. Are you making that up. I see reference to third world socialism, which doesn't make any sense, since most third world countries are dictatorships, not democratic socialism.

In the most, Obama is flirting with a soft form of democratic socialism. Not good, but not anything near the hyperbole of Optimizer.

crazy pants up there didn't say democratic socialism, he said socialism. the first country that came to mind that is both 3rd world and has a socialist market structure is cuba.

1008 BryanS  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:25:01pm

re: #943 laZardo

More like I meant that only three people were confirmed to have been waterboarded, and we don't know how many more were "not confirmed" to have been subjected to it, among other various "enhanced interrogation" methods.

Either way, that is the legacy they've left.

Point is not that there were "only" three. If the act is immoral, than limiting the acts to three does not make it better. The issue is more that Bush never kept Congress and his political opponents in the dark. My point is to draw attention to the gross hypocrisy of the left claiming this is Bush's legacy. The buck stops at his desk, perhaps, but the Congress has oversight authority. And on that front, it was full steam ahead.

1009 katemaclaren  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:25:16pm

re: #1004 The Shadow Do

Yep. I know.

1010 Irenike  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:25:46pm

re: #969 BryanS

I understand by your examples you felt those were incidents of recruitment, but I think what you are describing is more typical liberal brain washing/indoctrination that occurs in campus environments

If you look at my first paragraph, you will see that I use the phrase cultural "recruitment" for exactly the reasons you describe: typical liberal brainwashing. I have heard of one or two instances in which a gay man came onto a young, straight man in the hopes that perhaps the young man was bi or would simply say "yes" out of curiosity. But, in general, I do not believe the gay community actively recruits young people. I do believe the liberal atmosphere on college campuses, however, helps to push the boundaries of sexual experimentation, including in the direction of homosexuality, if even only for one night.

1011 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:25:48pm

re: #984 Thanos

We've got a fundy station south of where I live, I tune in every now and then to see what their latest campaigns are. Right now they are waxing highly homophobic and the "slippery slope" argument is always the one they start with, they usually end with "watch your children"....

It's out there, big time, has been for a long time, and it's not going anywhere. I've lived from New York to Texas, and now Colorado, and it's been entrenched in the conservative party everywhere I have gone.

And to make believe that it doesn't hurt us is to ignore facts. In the least, it keeps people away from the party, independents who would find the conservative party comfortable if it wasn't for all the rigid social demons that a lot of conservatives think they have to exorcise.

It's already bitten them, and it will bite them again. We will see now changes in the conservative movement until at least 2016, in my opinion. This shit has to shake out first.

1012 [deleted]  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:26:01pm
1013 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:26:12pm

re: #989 freetoken

Careful there SpaceJesus - you're accumulating up-dings, and now Avanti is only 16 down-dings behind you.....

I was minus 2000 a few weeks back, but my serial down dingers have taken a vacation.

1014 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:26:51pm

re: #1012 D.Veeus

Yeah, sure, that's just what they do. They wake up in the morning wondering how little Charles is doing and are uniformly horrified by his statements.

Actually- they really do do this.

1015 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:27:03pm

re: #1012 D.Veeus

Good bye.

1016 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:27:21pm

re: #942 Flyers1974
Well I certainly don't support Optimizer's feelings or comments, but you said

I have to wonder why Obama would want to turn the US into a third world socialist state. I'd imagine it would be a tough job doing that while also trying to win reelection in four years. Is your contention that he doesn't realize the vast majority of the country wouldn't like that? Or is it your contention the country would indeed approve of a third world socialist state.


To which I would have to say no, he doesn't want to turn the US into a third world nation but that the effects of some of his policies may leave us with both an economically more damaged America and an Militarily less capable America.
Remember, please, Obama didn't hide most of his convictions all that well (though it would have been a lot more interesting if the MSM had pushed him some about those positions) and he won the election.
And his victory was too large to lay at the feet of ACORN either. But as time wears on, as people begin to realize that unemployment is NOT going to get better by trying to trade what are, for the most part, low paying green jobs for the formerly higher paying coal and oil jobs. As time goes on and the rest of the world realizes that America can't live up to it's treaty obligations to defend them, I predict we will be less liked by the rest of the World than Obama thinks we are now. I don't think Obama is EVIL. I think he is sadly and horribly misinformed about economics, and woefully undereducated about American History. And I think he knowingly reaches for the class warfare gun a lot too quickly.
And yes, I do think that that will damage America very much.

1017 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:27:36pm

re: #996 The Shadow Do

Actually it is naive on your part to think that he does not desire that level of political control (Cuba).

so you're saying that if obama were presented with the chance to turn america into his personal cuba he would do it?

1018 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:28:03pm

re: #996 The Shadow Do

Actually it is naive on your part to think that he does not desire that level of political control (Cuba). However he is constrained by our system of laws and is smart enough to be able to deal with/work through that. He most certainly is a socialist, he simply knows as a practical matter that he will have to advance his ideas incrementally.

Do you think, hypothetical, that he would turn down that sort of power? Do you?

I do. Cuba is a communist country. There is nothing in Obama's background that would suggest that his politics go that far.

1019 gmsc  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:28:03pm

re: #1005 Gus 802

Might lead to persecution by the materialists, Darwinists and eventual cohabitation by abnormal heterosexuals!

//

Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

1020 Silvergirl  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:28:04pm

re: #1012 D.Veeus

You had a short life here.

1021 Irenike  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:28:57pm

re: #1001 Pawn of the Oppressor

I rather think pedos are too busy abusing kids and posting pictures on IRC to bother with political conspiracies. Call me crazy...

A few years back, pedophiles tried to form their own political party in Holland, if I remember correctly. The Dutch were too outraged to let that happen.

1022 FamHistoryGuy  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:29:02pm

re: #937 Macker

obama is a self described marxist. He has chosen to associated with far left radicals and his family were leftists (his mother and her father). And add in tee family friends.

1023 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:29:08pm

re: #1007 SpaceJesus

crazy pants up there didn't say democratic socialism, he said socialism. the first country that came to mind that is both 3rd world and has a socialist market structure is cuba.

It's a communist market structure, can't you understand that. If that's the first thing that came to your mind when you saw socialism, then you need to bone up on your political terms.

1024 Shug  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:29:11pm

re: #1012 D.Veeus

Can I take your coat, sir?

No. Not staying?

OK

1025 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:29:21pm

re: #1019 gmsc

Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

It's bad enough that dogs, cats, horses, etc... they're always nude! We must start a movement to clothe animals pronto!

//

1026 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:29:51pm

re: #885 katemaclaren

My favorite American poet, who should have been the USA's poet laureate this year, is Mary Oliver. Her partner died not too long ago (that's how I found out that she was gay--I had no idea).

My son was crushed when I read that Kat Cora is gay. She and her partner are both expecting....I saw an article about Kat Cora's being preggers, clicked on it, and, wow. It's gonna be noisy around that house for a while.

1027 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:30:07pm

re: #1012 D.Veeus

Yeah, sure, that's just what they do. They wake up in the morning wondering how little Charles is doing and are uniformly horrified by his statements.

By the way, if you say you're not on the right (even when you put parenthesis on it) and you say Joe the Plumber doesn't speak for you, you're being redundant.

Good first impression. Jerk.

1028 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:31:11pm

re: #1002 Silvergirl

Come on, Avanti, you're almost under negative 1000. You can do it! Don't log off till you get there.

Thanks for your support, but I need the rack time. Besides, I may lose a 100 or so over night.:) Night everyone, and again, good luck with that scan Walter.

1029 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:31:13pm

re: #1022 FamHistoryGuy

obama is a self described marxist. He has chosen to associated with far left radicals and his family were leftists (his mother and her father). And add in tee family friends.


what

1030 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:32:32pm

re: #964 Walter L. Newton
According to Rueters, his off shore and taxing of American business profits overseas that stay overseas isn't going to make it - there are too many Democrats who are against it.
Besides which I credit Soros with far more intelligence than do you; he will find a way to maintain and indeed increase his wealth while avoiding monstrous tax increases.
Guys like you and I - or just folks who are "well off" need to be worried; the Uber Rich don't and never will.

1031 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:32:59pm

re: #1028 avanti

Thanks for your support, but I need the rack time. Besides, I may lose a 100 or so over night.:) Night everyone, and again, good luck with that scan Walter.

There, you're now at -999

1032 Silvergirl  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:33:05pm

re: #1028 avanti

Thanks for your support, but I need the rack time. Besides, I may lose a 100 or so over night.:) Night everyone, and again, good luck with that scan Walter.

Too late. You're there!

1033 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:33:19pm

re: #1023 Walter L. Newton

It's a communist market structure, can't you understand that. If that's the first thing that came to your mind when you saw socialism, then you need to bone up on your political terms.

not a huge fan of ol' wikipedia myself, but hey,

"The Cuban state adheres to socialist principles in organizing its largely state-controlled planned economy."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

1034 D.Veeus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:34:00pm

re: #1027 Walter L. Newton

When Mr. Johnson is saying he's not necessarily "on the right" and says Joe doesn't speak for him, how is it not redundant? Can you explain that before deciding to call me something worse than jerk next time?

1035 avanti  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:34:04pm

re: #1031 Gus 802

There, you're now at -999

Good, now I can sleep like a Commie baby. :)/

1036 BatGuano  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:34:10pm

re: #901 eddiebear

Huh?

1037 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:34:17pm

re: #933 jorline

:-)

1038 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:34:33pm

re: #1030 realwest

According to Rueters, his off shore and taxing of American business profits overseas that stay overseas isn't going to make it - there are too many Democrats who are against it.
Besides which I credit Soros with far more intelligence than do you; he will find a way to maintain and indeed increase his wealth while avoiding monstrous tax increases.
Guys like you and I - or just folks who are "well off" need to be worried; the Uber Rich don't and never will.

I don't worry, I don't make diddly squat anymore, just enough to pay the bills, by food, and have a few dollars left for internet and dinner out.

Which is fine, since right now, none of this effects me at all. I ain't got anything for them to take, really.

1039 Gus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:34:44pm

re: #1035 avanti

Good, now I can sleep like a Commie baby. :)/

Later comrade.

//

1040 carefulnow  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:35:08pm

re: #1012 D.Veeus

Hey now, that's no way to talk to your host.

1041 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:35:31pm

re: #936 Teacake!

I tend to believe that accepting gay marriage is a set up by certain groups like nambla so that one day they can slip that agenda in as acceptable. I am not making up this idea.

re: #1017 SpaceJesus

so you're saying that if obama were presented with the chance to turn america into his personal cuba he would do it?

Of course he would.

1042 NY Nana  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:36:02pm

re: #427 Racer X

/Hmmm. Think he and Cindy Sheehag would be a good match? They seem to have had more than their 10 minutes of fame.

1043 D.Veeus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:36:09pm

How am I being rude or disrespectful to our host, carefulnow?

1044 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:36:51pm

re: #1034 D.Veeus

When Mr. Johnson is saying he's not necessarily "on the right" and says Joe doesn't speak for him, how is it not redundant? Can you explain that before deciding to call me something worse than jerk next time?

Check your karma, you're slipping fast.

1045 D.Veeus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:37:27pm

I don't believe in karma, Mr. Newton.

1046 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:37:35pm

re: #965 laZardo Well respectfully I have to disagree with you. Whom Obama chooses to associate with does say a lot about his judgment. Zombie and a lot of other folks were trying to get the word out about Ayers and others, early on, tried to get the word out on Wright; regrettfully, the MSM didn't do their job - they didn't want to report that Obama had stated, in his own book that Rev Wright was his spiritual advisor. GOP (and others) HOWLED about that; the MSM gave it a pass. Same thing with Ayers.

1047 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:38:08pm

I can't say I'm surprised to hear this coming from Joe the Plumber. Just once I'd love to hear something like "I'm a Christian and while my religion teaches that homosexuality is sinful, I believe gays are Americans too."

1048 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:39:23pm

re: #1045 D.Veeus

I don't believe in karma, Mr. Newton.

Fine, click on your football. See in the top left. That's a rating system that we use. It's driven by the other commenters here.

You jump in here and make snide remarks about Charles, your host, and then come back and act like a jerk.

And what do other Lizards here think about that.

Like I said, check your karma.

And don't worry, Satan won't get you for checking.

1049 Sharmuta  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:39:41pm

re: #1043 D.Veeus

How am I being rude or disrespectful to our host, carefulnow?

You showed your ignorance by saying those that have spent their entire day for months or years following everything that goes on at this blog don't exist. It was like calling your host a liar. I assure you- the stalkers are watching even now. Give them a wave.

1050 NY Nana  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:39:44pm

re: #1014 Sharmuta

Sharm,

Please don't waste your breath.

1051 Silvergirl  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:40:04pm

re: #1047 Liberal Classic

I can't say I'm surprised to hear this coming from Joe the Plumber. Just once I'd love to hear something like "I'm a Christian and while my religion teaches that homosexuality is sinful, I believe gays are Americans too."

And perhaps add, "I'm willing to leave the final judgment to God."

1052 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:40:56pm

re: #1045 D.Veeus

Duhhhhhh.

1053 BignJames  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:41:21pm

re: #979 jorline

Born at Hill
Davis-Monthan
Harmon, Newfoundland
Offutt
Tachikawa, Japan
Hill...again
Randolph


Donaldson
Chanute
Donaldson
Naha Okinawa
Grienier Field
McGuire
Langley

1054 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:42:07pm

re: #964 Walter L. Newton

If that is the case, then some of the proposals that Obama made today about going after corporations who hide taxable profits off shore and in other countries, if put into effect, will hurt Soros a hell of a lot.

Doesn't sound so friendly to me.

Gosh darn it, but I support these proposals too. Why the hell should the tax code incentivize American businesses to move subsidiaries offshore?

Time for bed...

1055 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:42:14pm

re: #1041 The Shadow Do

Of course he would.

oh jeez

1056 meeshlr  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:42:30pm

re: #16 Bloodnok

I am NOT Joe the Plumber.

Yeah. Time to shred that shirt.

1057 Catttt  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:43:26pm

re: #1055 SpaceJesus

oh jeez


So. Can we call you Space Jeez? :D

1058 Flyers1974  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:43:34pm

re: #1016 realwest

Trouble is though, aren't people always predicting doom and gloom when the other party wins? I remember my fellow liberals claiming dictatorship with Bush and before that wasn't the GOP saying that Clinton was bringing communism, etc...? I don't know, It seems a bit dramatic to me. Well, perhaps you're wrong, I think Obama is a good egg, and I'd hate to see the US crash and burn, but I guess you never know.

1059 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:44:52pm

re: #982 Gus 802 Well Gus I have to disagree with you there. Obama was the first candidate from either party to turn down matching funds and wound up outspending McCain by 7-1 or thereabouts. Someone paid for that and it wasn't all those "little people" with all of their checks in amounts which meant they didn't have to disclose their names to the FEC. Soros probably didn't give ALL his money to Obama, but if he gave him $250 million, Soros wouldn't really miss it - and google or even Wiki Soros on where he stands politically - he is a socialist (I know that sounds funny, but as the ELITE LEFTIST MANTRA goes "I've got mine, screw you.").

1060 meeshlr  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:46:11pm

re: #195 MandyManners

What are you?

Hat-tip: Charles.

(I foresee myself using this a lot.)

Oh noes! Now I have a migraine.

1061 tyree  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:49:06pm

He doesn't speak for me.
But then again, neither does President Obama, Speaker of the House Pelosi, Senator Feinstein, Senator Boxer or Congresswoman Sanchez or Governor Schwarzenegger.

As far as the issue at hand, I am about as conservative as reasonable people can be, without straying into the left side of the circle. I think gay people should have all the rights and privileges as all Americans. I am just tired of them demanding that I change the definition of yet another word to appease them the left. They can call it what they want, leave "Marriage" alone. That word is older than this country and it's definition shouldn't be changed.

Conservative read "1984" and say, "That's horrible". Liberals read it and say, "we could totally make this work."

1062 Macker  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:50:19pm

re: #1022 FamHistoryGuy

And what did Karl Marx espouse? It sure wasn't self-ism now was it?

1063 ASU86PE  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:50:27pm

re: #795 Shug


Popularity is not wisdom.

1064 drogheda  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:51:05pm

re: #999 avanti

Yea, it's allow same sex marriage, then it'll be polygamy, then marriage with animals, crazy shit.

Well I do declare! They done left out miscegenation.

///////

1065 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:51:27pm

re: #999 avanti

Yea, it's allow same sex marriage, then it'll be polygamy, then marriage with animals, crazy shit.

that's what lost the election for Santorum in 2006, IMHO

1066 dmjboose  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:52:03pm

He's certainly not speaking for me. I don't know if I count as part of the "right". I'm generally libertarian, except when it comes to how they feel about war. Either way, it doesn't matter, because this guy is a a**hole.

1067 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:52:10pm

re: #1059 realwest

Realwest. I thought he refused the funds in the beginning but took them anyway.

1068 funky chicken  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:53:04pm

anybody got a night vision scope I could borrow? I've got a LOUD night bird in a tree right outside the window.

sings for hours....just started.

well, off to try to get some sleep

1069 FamHistoryGuy  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:53:17pm

re: #1053 BignJames

Reese
Loan AFB France
Shaw
RAF Bruntingthorpe
McConnel
Then active duty AF for 20

1070 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:53:18pm

re: #1046 realwest

I will add though that the sentiment was mutual (see the smear of Joe related to Charles "Of the Five" Keating dying out quickly.)

That bit about "disowning relatives" was understandable too. My own parents have sentiments about other religions that would probably get them banned from this site if they started posting about it, but they're still my parents.

1071 Silvergirl  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:56:00pm

re: #1068 funky chicken

anybody got a night vision scope I could borrow? I've got a LOUD night bird in a tree right outside the window.

sings for hours....just started.

well, off to try to get some sleep

Blackbird singing in the dead of night, take these broken wings and learn to fly
All your life, you were only waiting for this moment to arise

1072 ASU86PE  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:56:37pm

re: #750 Million Dollar Man

No one is stopping anyone from - a man to a woman and vice versa - the defined marriage.

1073 NY Nana  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:57:06pm

Found a photo of Joe the plumber!

And with that vision in my brain? I will now say g'nite,all! NY Grampa has to be up early, as he is the leader of the group in our area, doing the work to get the addresses, etc., checked for the 2010 census, and I am about to gently club him on the head, and get ready to go to sleep....not to worry, I will use my sockpuppet to 'help' him fall asleep! ;)

And in this part of the census work, ACORN is not involved, thankfully.

Sweet dreams, all.

1074 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:59:18pm

re: #1058 Flyers1974
Well Lord knows I've been wrong before and I HOPE I'm wrong now. But no, I don't recall the GOP saying that Clinton was a communist (and notice I didn't say Obama is either) but the fact is he HAS proposed a budget with at least a 1 and 1/2 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT BUILT IN. He has proposed drastic reductions to defense spending. He has proposed alternative energy for independence for the nation, but he is against the only PROVEN and currently workable alternative to fossil fuel energy source and that's nuclear energy - from which, btw, France gets over 75% of it's electric power - and is for sources which may, someday down the line (years), replace fossil fuels but he want's to make coal and oil WAY expensive for us all with his cap and trade. And not one word I said about Obama is wrong - it's all come directly from Obama, not me. Of course he phrased it differently!

1075 The Shadow Do  Mon, May 4, 2009 10:59:21pm

re: #1018 Walter L. Newton

I do. Cuba is a communist country. There is nothing in Obama's background that would suggest that his politics go that far.

There is nothing in his background that suggests he is friendly to capitalist principals either, though that does not automatically make him a communist. However, everything in his background and speech does suggest that he is quite friendly to socialist solutions.

Socialism is antithetical to the US Constitution. How hard will he press to change the fundamentals we are steeped in? I don't know, hard I think, and I am pretty sure he does not like America as it is so best to keep one's head up.

1076 NY Nana  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:00:20pm

re: #1067 Pvt Bin Jammin

Whoops, we did it again! I was looking for you, but you posted earlier. Got to go to sleep...can't see straight.

Will call you later today (it is Tuesday already here;)....I talk much faster than I type!

1077 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:01:08pm

re: #1058 Flyers1974
Addendum to my # 1074 - the entire Federal Government is now run by one party. The Dems own it all from here on out.
Let's hope they kick out the way out Leftist who elected them into power.

1078 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:03:38pm

re: #1067 Pvt Bin Jammin
Yep. He pledged to take Fed Financing and then realized how much dough he was pulling in and reneged on his promise.

1079 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:04:36pm

re: #1074 realwest

but he is against the only PROVEN and currently workable alternative to fossil fuel energy source and that's nuclear energy - from which, btw, France gets over 75% of it's electric power - and is for sources which may, someday down the line (years), replace fossil fuels

I do not believe that is true. While he was a Senator, some environmental groups (the anti-nuke ones) were on his case because he wasn't anti-nuke. Then, as President, he picks a pro-nuke Sec of Energy, and a pro-nuke science advisor.

1080 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:05:28pm

re: #1070 laZardo Where did I mention disowning relatives? Your stuck with the relatives you've got; you CHOOSE to associate with people like Wright and Ayers and the MSM didn't give a shit about that or about what that said about Obama.

1081 erraticsphinx  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:06:57pm

re: #1061 tyree

I don't get what "1984" has to do with gay marriage.
Where are the parallels?
Seriously.

1082 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:08:54pm

re: #1079 freetoken
A PRO nuke Sec of Energy?
Anyway, freetoken, listen to his speeches about energy independence - noticibly missing is anything about nuclear energy; too many of his constituent base are enviromentalists - who cancelled off-shore drilling? Why?
Obama is not for nuclear power. Period.

1083 realwest  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:10:35pm

Well y'all I'm off to bed now, hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to catch you all down the line.
Oh and I hope I'm fortunate to be able to be on LGF when great threads like this are put up by Charles, too!

Good night, all.

1084 laZardo  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:11:12pm

re: #1080 realwest

Cheers, man.

1085 mfarmer1  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:19:27pm

For years we've heard conservatives say that putting the most liberal people in office would do so much damage that conservatives would be swept back into office in huge numbers. I don't subscribe to that theory, but now that it looks at least possible, the Republicans are in complete disarray.

The rift between fiscal and social (religious) conservatives doesn't look like it's going to heal. Two parties will likely emerge, one of them being "The Little Baby Jesus Party."

The sooner the better. There are still enough conservative Democrats to form a broader conservative party with fiscally conservative Republicans who shun the likes of this idiot Joe the Plumber and his proselytizing gobbledygook.

1086 SixDegrees  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:34:06pm

I'm on the Right, and Joe doesn't speak for me.

1087 freetoken  Mon, May 4, 2009 11:44:15pm

re: #1082 realwest

Instead of trying to read meaning into what is not said, I'd rather take speakers on what they do say.

And both Chu and Holdren have made it very clear they think nuclear energy is an important element in the mix of energy supplies for the future, with Chu in particular wanting to develop a new generation of nuke to consume the "waste" that we have stored from the older style nukes we have.

1088 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 5, 2009 12:16:47am

re: #1061 tyree

Conservative read "1984" and say, "That's horrible". Liberals read it and say, "we could totally make this work."

That's funny, when I read that as a mostly liberal leaning teen, I was thinking the polar opposite.

I guess that sort of thinking happens within any brand of ideologue. I am so glad I grew up, and out, of that sort of thinking.

1089 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 12:19:49am

I'm a Christian, and I would urge Joe to take each person as an individual.

The bigotry thing, to me, is pretty simple. It just kind of boils down to that. Each person is unique, and should not be judged on the basis of some demographic they may or may not belong to. Just know the person, and if you trust them as an individual, go with it.

1090 saxking20  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:57:40am

Joe speaks for a large part of America. I know I'm in the minority here but he speaks for me.

PALIN/JOE THE PLUMBER IN 2012.

1091 Fierce Guppy  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:57:41am

The most frustrating thing I encounter with many from the religious "Right" is their professed love for individual liberty, limited government, and Capitalism on the one hand and spurts of willful ignorance, smutty or nasty innuendo and bigotry on the other. I ask myself, have these people done any amount of introspection in their lives? I'm talking about just every now and then checking one's principles and derivatives for logical consistency. At some point in time make the choice either to become rational, benevolent advocates for individual liberty, limited government, and Capitalism, or support hanging witches, imprisoning gays, imprisoning women for having abortions, and demand the teaching of Biblical gobbledeegook in the science class. They should just be consistent. I don't want to have to be shaking their hand one day and spitting in their eyes the next making us ~both~ out to have Jekyll and hyde personalities.

Tony.

1092 Salamantis  Tue, May 5, 2009 4:04:36am

re: #1045 D.Veeus

I don't believe in karma, Mr. Newton.

Karma doesn't require reincarnation; it can manifest in the span of a single lifetime. When you fuck people over, or people observe you as being a fucking-over-others kinda guy, they are highly unlikely to subsequently greet your presence with great good will and ebullient magnanimity. Out of an eminently rational sense of self-preservation, if nothing else.

1093 theheat  Tue, May 5, 2009 4:14:44am

Not so long ago when JTB was the media darling, completing the GOP's three ring circus of McCain and Palin, the little voice in my head told me I couldn't stand him. It wasn't anything as tangible as it was my gut telling me, "This guy is icky." Pretty much, I felt that way about the three of them.

Little by little , since the campaign wrap-up, tangible things have come and gone that reaffirmed that gut feeling I had. To say you don't like someone just because of a feeling in your stomach doesn't make for a very intellectual argument. However, I'm happy to say, they've all said and done things that underscored why I should listen to that feeling in my stomach.

Conservatism is about the basic rights of individuals.

Maybe he doesn't feel homosexuals share the same basic rights?

JTP is another touted "true conservative" I have very little in common with. Beating up gays with the bible, figuratively, is one more reason I find the guy useless, and maybe just a little bit more icky than before.

1094 RebelDebater  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:17:04am

re: #72 captain joe

Yes I 2nd all the fuck you(s). And agree with whomever said that people like you are destroying our party. The Republican party must retrogress back 80s Reagan-esque style or move towards libertarianism. The current fundamentalist Christian basis of the Republican party is OUT and will not work anymore. Party power needs to be removed from people who socially far-right wing if we ever want the party back on its feet again.

1095 RebelDebater  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:17:48am

re: #1090 saxking20

So essentially you're either joking or a redneck right? Either way. Get the fuck out.

1096 Irish Rose  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:49:21am

Hell no, he doesn't speak for me.

1097 Irish Rose  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:54:15am

Buyers remorse, GOP?

1098 Stonemason  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:58:29am

He doesn't speak for me...

1099 funky chicken  Tue, May 5, 2009 6:02:58am

re: #1091 Fierce Guppy

The most frustrating thing I encounter with many from the religious "Right" is their professed love for individual liberty, limited government, and Capitalism on the one hand and spurts of willful ignorance, smutty or nasty innuendo and bigotry on the other. I ask myself, have these people done any amount of introspection in their lives? I'm talking about just every now and then checking one's principles and derivatives for logical consistency. At some point in time make the choice either to become rational, benevolent advocates for individual liberty, limited government, and Capitalism, or support hanging witches, imprisoning gays, imprisoning women for having abortions, and demand the teaching of Biblical gobbledeegook in the science class. They should just be consistent. I don't want to have to be shaking their hand one day and spitting in their eyes the next making us ~both~ out to have Jekyll and hyde personalities.

Tony.

good stuff

1100 EaterOfFood  Tue, May 5, 2009 6:45:44am

re: #132 Shug

Queers for Palestine come to mind.

As having a death wish.

1101 dingleB  Tue, May 5, 2009 6:49:03am

I swear everytime I see or hear of that Joe Douchebag Plumber, I see Patrick the Starfish from SpongeBob SquarePants.

1102 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 6:49:53am

re: #693 BatGuano

Who gives a shit about the under 25 opinion. They voted for Obama and they didn't know why.

Hold onto that attitude if you like. But it's that very same attitude that cost McCain the election. It's the twenty-somethings in this country that work the hardest jobs with the fewest benefits while looking into the future and deciding what kind of world they want their children to grow up in. We pump your gas, stock your shelves, fix your cars, program your computers, fight your wars, and take on huge debts to pay for our education. McCain proved he was from a different era; he didn't even have a preference between PC or Mac.

Who gives a shit about the under 25 opinion?

Anyone interested in actually winning an election.

Were you ever young?

1103 eddiebear  Tue, May 5, 2009 7:14:00am

I may be wrong, but wasn't joe a PJTV correspondent during the Israel-Hamas battles for a while?

1104 drool  Tue, May 5, 2009 7:24:21am

I wouldn't let J.T. Plumber near my kids. They might catch stupidity and ignorance from him.

1105 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 7:27:29am

re: #1103 eddiebear

I may be wrong, but wasn't joe a PJTV correspondent during the Israel-Hamas battles for a while?

Yes, and he was pretty terrible at it.

I’ve had some friends that are actually homosexual. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn’t have them anywhere near my children.

Wow. Is he afraid his kids are going to 'catch the gay'?

1106 eddiebear  Tue, May 5, 2009 7:40:27am

re: #1105 Yashmak

Thanks

1107 rynloran  Tue, May 5, 2009 7:44:42am

This is actually pretty softcore. I wouldn't say he's a nut. He's an ordinary guy with some religiously average beliefs. He's not running for anything, is he?

He's like a Republican's Ryan Seacrest: Probably pretty nice, but what the hell is he doing in the media's spotlight?

Ignore him. Don't hate on him. There are people far worse that we should be focused on.

1108 SFGoth  Tue, May 5, 2009 8:08:20am

Ironically, for Hanoi John, this guy's more "biblical" than Palin. After a long day here at LGF, I thank God that in her infinite wisdom, she created cannabis and the phenomenon of scotch.

1109 EaterOfFood  Tue, May 5, 2009 8:18:25am

re: #476 gmsc

Our Genius President: 'Happy Cuatro de Cinco!'

What a coincidence. If it hadn't been for Seven of Nine's husband pulling out, we might have another president today.

1110 CMinMN  Tue, May 5, 2009 8:33:33am

He was fine until he said he wouldn't let his kids around the people that he knows are gay. He is not going to be getting a job with NASA anytime soon so he does deserve some break. Ignorance can be bliss but it should also not be discussed too loudly - or more specifically on TV. Joe should go enjoy the 15 minutes of fame he earned instead of racking up the hours of shame he is working on accumulating. As conservative queer I feel I can say that....
You do have to admit his comments read pretty funny although not representative of most people.

1111 erraticsphinx  Tue, May 5, 2009 8:46:22am

re: #1110 CMinMN

Hmmm, I don't know if he was "fine" until the children thing.

He used the word queer in an extremely vicious way in the first part of his screed.
And I agree about the ignorance is bliss part.

1112 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:21:57am
1113 NelsFree  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:26:32am

re: #863 Silvergirl

Well posted, SG! I also remember the sincere appreciation for Joe. We should all remember the post, or be doomed to forever repeat it!

post>past, intentional PIMF

1114 American Sabra  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:26:49am

re: #1091 Fierce Guppy

LOL The Republican party. The party of less government, except when it comes to religion and sex.

1115 bubbasbbq  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:38:08am

Honestly, I seriously do not think most people do not have a problem with "gay" people or "people who are gay", or what have you in general. However, I firmly believe that most people DO have real problems with the gay political agenda, and the idea that you force feed people that agenda to not only accept it but to think it is perfectly fine. The real problem is that alot of people either do a shitty job of expressing the difference or don't understand the difference.

1116 nikis-knight  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:41:47am

re: #1102 idioma

Hold onto that attitude if you like. But it's that very same attitude that cost McCain the election. It's the twenty-somethings in this country that work the hardest jobs with the fewest benefits while looking into the future and deciding what kind of world they want their children to grow up in. We pump your gas, stock your shelves, fix your cars, program your computers, fight your wars, and take on huge debts to pay for our education. McCain proved he was from a different era; he didn't even have a preference between PC or Mac.

Who gives a shit about the under 25 opinion?

Anyone interested in actually winning an election.

Were you ever young?


Hmm, I was almost with you untill the silly computer thing, then you show that you may be hung-up on trivia rather than any principles that matter.

1117 ellem  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:53:01am

I have to say... I had no idea this guy was saying anything to anyone until I read this. Can he speak for me if I am unaware he's speaking?

1118 NelsFree  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:53:30am

re: #739 ShanghaiEd

NelsFree writes:


The way you phrase that blows my mind, NelsFree. It would be the same as me saying, "My son understands what barometric pressure is about, and he rejects it" or, "My daughter understands what blondness is about, and she accepts it."

It's impossible to "accept" or "reject" something that is a fact of life in the world. You can reject a person solely because they have that quality. It's called bigotry.

Dear SEd,

Barometric pressure is a scientific principle based on experimentation and is considered a Law of Science. You cannot compare science to lifestyle choice; apples and oranges.
Blondness is either a genetic trait or a choice based on purchasing a product at a store and applying it to one's hair. Being born blond or choosing to be blond is not against any moral rules of which I am aware.

Homosexuality is a lifestyle chosen by those who participate in acts that my religion rejects. While it is a fact that it exists, I do not accept it as acceptable for me or my family. If you choose to call me a bigot because I wish to maintain my family's religious values, so be it. My feelings are not hurt.
In my earlier post I said that my Son understands homosexuality and rejects it. I shall now recite the conversation that transpired:
Son: "Dad, what's Gay mean?"
Dad: "Gay is another term for homosexuality. What it means is this; you know I love your Mother?"
Son: "Yep."
Dad:" Gay men love other men the way I love your Mother."
Son: "Yech."
The Bible teaches us to love the sinner but hate the sin. I shall pray for homosexuals to renounce their sin. I shall not force my religion on them. I shall openly state that I do not approve of homosexuality. I shall not abridge the rights of homosexuals that are guaranteed in the Constitution, because those rights are guaranteed to all Americans.

SEd, would you please write, for all to see, your position on this issue as I have done?

1119 erraticsphinx  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:02:37am

re: #1118 NelsFree

That homosexuality is a LIFESTYLE is again, your opinion.

You have the right to teach your family whatever you want, but when these views get into the mainstream of a political party (See: Tulsa GOP Platform)........it is a disgrace to the Republic, which is founded on ideals of liberty and equality.

Its not about "forcing" you to accept anything.

1120 funky chicken  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:23:25am

re: #1112 buzzsawmonkey

Level one: I cannot count the number of times I heard gay friends in college speculate on whether or not someone they found attractive "could be had," or discuss their success in persuading the object of their affections to take a walk on the wild side.

Sorry dude, but we women have been on the receiving end of this kind of attention and speculation from men for, well, as long as I can remember. You just don't like it when it is turned your way.

Level two: Urging gays to "come out" is sold as a means towards self-liberation. But its effect is to drive the person who makes a point of "coming out" to all and sundry away from his heterosexual friends, and into the arms of the gay community.

Huh? That just doesn't happen from what I've seen. Homosexuals who don't feel uncomfortable in the hetero social scene don't self-segregate except for inside the bedroom. I'm not interested in being in anybody else's bedroom, so their sexual orientation doesn't matter.

Level four: "Queer theory" and its allied academic disciplines seek to re-define the society as "queer," and to urge that everyone, or almost everyone, is really bisexual at the very least. By attempting to recast and redefine society in its own image, "queer theory" seeks to swell the gay demographic through major re-definition.

Is this why so many heterosexual men proudly trumpet their love of "hot lesbian pron" and anal sex? See, that kind of thing is much more likely to impact upon my kids' lives than the 2% of the population that is homosexual, or the radical 1% of that 2% that is pushing the kinds of stuff that you list in your post.

1121 American Sabra  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:31:46am

re: #1112 buzzsawmonkey

That's some pretty fierce words not to mention disgusting and biogted. I read Zombies "expose" on the same topic a few weeks back and was equally disgusted.

Level one: What difference does this make? I may have been a screwed up kid at the age of 15, but I knew I was straight. Kids today are far more savy today than they ever were. And how is it any different than a Christian outwardly trying to convert non-Christians? Maybe every Jehovah witness believes every Jew "could be had" and quite frankly they do. A lot more seriously, btw, then gays. They come to my door fairly often. I tell them No or don't answer the door. They go away. Pretty easy. In your worldview, however, gays seem more of threat than the Jehovahs. Least I've never seen you speak out against the latter.

Level 2 and 3: It's ridiculous to even think that you would "turn gay" to please your friends. It's something that's a part of your makeup at some level. And it doesn't even begin to answer the question of an enormous amount of gay people that "become" gay later in life whether living with a straight spouse and having children or not, but certainly not succumbing to peer pressure from high school days left long behind them.

Maybe the drive to "push acceptance" is actually just that. Accepting that which you do not understand so we don't all turn into bigots like Joe the Plumber (or maybe you?) "afraid" of what gays will do to us should we get alone in a room with one. You certainly do not address the fact that there are children attending schools that have gay parents and who are completely straight, btw. Should they be caste off too?

Level 4: The Queer Theory sprung up from the feminist movement of long ago and it isn't all as straight forward (har har) as you say it is. I don't really understand the depth of it (I'm really not all together on my gay studies!), but it's the discussion of how gender influences us, whether the current culture (TV, books, fashion, etc.) defines your sexual role or it's something more genetic. Queer Theory is similar to Social Constructionism, from my understanding, basically that sexuality derives from cultural influences, not biology. There really has been a host of scholars who both agree and disagree and as far as I'm aware, nothing decisive has ever been proven either way. It's an ongoing type of research. Maybe you lean towards one idea or another, but that doesn't make you right and others wrong.

1122 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:37:30am
1123 funky chicken  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:40:27am

re: #1122 buzzsawmonkey

sorry, but you sound like a more literate NelsFree to me.

1124 funky chicken  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:44:43am
As far as gays self-segregating, that occurs in every gay ghetto in every major city, most minor cities, practically every college campus, etc.

I wonder if urban gays call areas where my family lives "hetero ghettos?"

1125 funky chicken  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:48:08am

re: #1122 buzzsawmonkey

As to your last point, what has porno to do with queer theory?

My point was that you see homosexuality and homosexual activists as a singular threat to our culture and it's morality.

I'm telling you that I think there are other things out there that are a more direct and pervasive threat than homosexuals.

1126 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:51:51am
1127 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 10:59:08am
1128 oldbluesboy  Tue, May 5, 2009 11:22:59am

Poor Joe. He ain't got much education anyhow. He doesn't understand that the term "queer" is a short-lived reference to persons with abnormal sexual tendencies dating back thousands of years. The more appropriate name is Sodomites.

1129 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 11:29:02am
1130 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 11:36:47am

re: #1091 Fierce Guppy

The most frustrating thing I encounter with many from the religious "Right" is their professed love for individual liberty, limited government, and Capitalism on the one hand and spurts of willful ignorance, smutty or nasty innuendo and bigotry on the other. I ask myself, have these people done any amount of introspection in their lives? I'm talking about just every now and then checking one's principles and derivatives for logical consistency. At some point in time make the choice either to become rational, benevolent advocates for individual liberty, limited government, and Capitalism, or support hanging witches, imprisoning gays, imprisoning women for having abortions, and demand the teaching of Biblical gobbledeegook in the science class. They should just be consistent. I don't want to have to be shaking their hand one day and spitting in their eyes the next making us ~both~ out to have Jekyll and hyde personalities.

Tony.

Aside from the business about science classes, where do you see support for "hanging witches, imprisoning gays, [and] imprisoning women for having abortions" in the Christian community at large?

There's a tremendous amount of broad-brushing going on. Bigotry is no better when it is used against Christians.

1131 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 11:43:41am

re: #1112 buzzsawmonkey

For what it's worth, buzz, I have observed the recruitment phenomenon you describe (though it was in the late seventies, when I lived at a college with big music/theater program). I couldn't speculate on how common it is, but I have seen it.

Anecdotal evidence isn't worth very much, so I had decided not to mention it last night - and as I stated above, my personal philosophy on all of this is to take individuals on a case-by-case basis, and not to fear or distrust someone unless I have a tangible reason. But people who think this doesn't happen anywhere at any time are simply incorrect.

1132 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 11:48:46am
1133 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 12:04:36pm

re: #1132 buzzsawmonkey

Not to go into too much detail, but while living at the aforementioned college, I personally witnessed confused young men being pressured and coerced into just the sort of thing you describe. Some of them had girlfriends at the time they enrolled, but a powerful man there basically engineered a gay community where it hadn't existed prior. Though I was friendly with them, they almost functioned like a gang.

About two months ago, I happened to look at the school's website; this "powerful man" is still there. I doubt much has changed.

1134 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 12:27:36pm

re: #1112 buzzsawmonkey

That was about the single most offensive thing I've read all week.

Level one: I cannot count the number of times I heard gay friends in college speculate on whether or not someone they found attractive "could be had," or discuss their success in persuading the object of their affections to take a walk on the wild side.

FunkyChicken covered that one in #1120 about as well as can be. Do you expect gay people to be any different than straight people in this regard? Women and men alike, regardless of gender preference, all engage in this sort of behavior, but you state it as if it's a sinister activity when homosexuals do it?

Level two: Urging gays to "come out" is sold as a means towards self-liberation. But its effect is to drive the person who makes a point of "coming out" to all and sundry away from his heterosexual friends, and into the arms of the gay community.

So a person 'comes out', and drives away his heterosexual friends? Maybe in some areas where people carry around some ignorant belief that homosexuality is contagious, or amongst friends who are so insecure about their own sexuality as to feel threatened by this. . .or it may just be a feeling of betrayal that their long time friend has kept such a secret from them. To say that it's part of some plot to "recruit" is quite a reach though. Even if what you said here were true, the idea that your so-called "level two" would in some way further such a plot is ridiculous, as in your twisted version of reality it would tend to force gays to congregate amongst their own, rather than continue your imagined infiltration of the straight community.

Some will reject the newly-outed person, some will not care; but by making an issue of sexual orientation, that person sets himself up as breaking from his former existence, and identifying with a subculture that segregates itself from the larger society.

Since when is having a gender preference segregation from a larger society? If it is, we're ALL segregated from the larger society.

Level three: The drive to push "acceptance" of homosexual behavior and gay culture in schools at younger and younger ages is indeed a form of recruitment. Adolescence is a time of confusion, during which many young men are horny as hell, uncertain of how to handle sexual attraction with girls, and vulnerable to both crushes with contemporaries and mentoring by sympathetic elders, either of which may take a sexual turn.

You start out accusing a push for acceptance of homosexuality here, but end up accusing 'sympathetic elders'. That sounds more like you're pointing your finger at pedophiles, an entirely separate issue.

In other words, there is some truth to the old line, "It's just a phase"--but encouraging youngsters at this stage to accept and identify themselves as "gay" routs them into the homosexual subculture at a time when they are setting their social patterns and making their first adult, or near-adult friendships. Whether they are "gay" or not, they find themselves locked into a social pattern which becomes increasingly hard to break as they get older.

They made a decision to 'come out' in the first place, you can't have it both ways. They broke the locks on their 'social pattern' once already. It's extremely arguable that this 'social pattern' is more difficult to break as they get older, as many people become more relaxed and open about sexuality as they mature.

Level four: "Queer theory" and its allied academic disciplines seek to re-define the society as "queer," . . . ., "queer theory" seeks to swell the gay demographic through major re-definition.

Can't say I've ever seen any evidence of this.

1135 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 12:30:41pm

re: #1132 buzzsawmonkey

The "personal" recruitment I described in "level one" does not bother me; everyone decides what he or she wants to do at a given moment. I mentioned it simply to point out that it does exist.

Yes, so I suppose all straight people engaged in the same sort of behavior are "recruiting" as well. But that doesn't bother you.

The other forms of recruitment--urging people to declare themselves as a way of isolating themselves from the larger society, and defining themselves as a distinct subculture, and messing with definitions to cast the net of that subculture as widely as possible--have much more serious implications for the cohesion of society in the long run.

If any of those things were legitimately happening, that is. I'm from California, which has a relatively large number of homosexuals, and is quite liberal (as you all know). Even here, I've seen no evidence of the sort of thing you describe.

1136 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 12:45:57pm

re: #1118 NelsFree

You live in an imaginary place.

You hold science in one hand (when convenient) and the bible in the other (just in case).

You said it's your religion that is against homosexuals.

So a little bit of house-keeping is needed. What part of the bible do you go for? To simply live in the modern world, you cannot take the whole thing, you have to choose the parts you agree with. Old Testament or New? Follow Jesus? What did he say about being gay?

...

I'll wait.

...

Still looking?

It's kind of a big deal, he really had no opinion?

Son of god, savior of man, king of kings, and he was neutral as the Swiss?

That's kind of odd.

So I guess you are an old testament kind of guy then.

Burn the first born lamb lately?

Ever work on a sunday?

/religion

Now on to science:

You believe it is a lifestyle choice™

Fantastic.

So, could you explain why so many species on this planet are homosexual, or bisexual for that matter?

It's a more difficult problem than measuring barometric pressure.

Lifestyle is a uniquely human term. But I'll be damned if my first cat wasn't gay, he humped male cats every chance he could.

"The bible says so" doesn't cut it from an ethics standpoint either. I bet your son finds a number of food deserve the same "yick!" response, does that mean I am no longer allowed to enjoy seafood?

You were young and propositioned by a gay man and didn't understand why.

Get over it. Unattractive people of both sexes will make a pass at you in your lifetime, that's normal. There's no witch to burn here.

1137 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 12:55:34pm
1138 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:00:12pm

re: #1127 buzzsawmonkey

The concept of "homosexuality" as a distinct phenomenon or "condition" is very modern; it is not more than 150 years old. The history of how this subculture was created is fascinating--but just because there has been great effort put into creating it does not mean that accepting that creation is wise or correct.

... So like the Greeks...

No gay stuff there?

Really?

You are embarrassing yourself, by failing to accept reality.

1139 American Sabra  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:05:17pm

re: #1122 buzzsawmonkey

There's a few things I wanted to say, but I don't want to belabour each and every point.

Have you ever heard say "men are pigs?" Now before every man on this board starts to throw something at me, men usually like sexual deviation and perversion a lot more than women (point wonderfully made by funky chicken). Whatever it is, sexually healthy or not healthy, men will generally try just about everything. Yes, I know gay men who try to "make" straight men. In fact, one friend of mine pretty much exclusively dated "straight men" or rather men who had families and children who lived this secret life. This is nothing new and I suspect has been happening since the species has been procreating. Needless to say, what does that say of the straight men in the first place? It says, "Men are pigs." Straight or gay is beside the point.

1140 American Sabra  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:07:08pm

"I hate men, but I'm not a lesbian!"

-Elaine Benes

1141 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:07:51pm
1142 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:09:25pm
1143 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:11:44pm

re: #1137 buzzsawmonkey

I suggest you re-read #1112 et. seq., and park your absurd eagerness to find offense at the door before you do so. To re-cap, in simplified form: I am merely stating that it is false to claim that "recruitment" does not exist. It does. I have seen it; so have you, probably, though you might choose to ignore it.

Alright, I re-read it again, on top of the 5 or 6 times I read it while quoting and responding to it. To recap, I am merely stating that the support you provide to your claim is nothing of the sort. Your description of 'recruitment' is little more than the same sort of expression of sexual interest that occurs between straight people as well. I thought I stated that pretty clearly, as did Funky Chicken, so maybe I'm not the one who doesn't read much

It exists both in the small form of the desire among many gays to seduce, or "turn," men who are not identified as "gay"--which, as I have said several times now, is a personal matter.

How about in the desire of straight folks to seduce, or "turn" gays? That happens all the time. The fact that you note this behavior in gays, but not in straight folks, is puzzling if you didn't intend your statement as a critical of this recruiting thing on the part of gays.

I have made no value judgment on this, merely stated a fact--yet you and funky chicken have for some unaccountable reason decided that it is worth taking umbrage over.

It certainly reads as if you are making a value judgement, but perhaps I am merely a victim of the inscrutibility of internet posts and am reading into it someting you didn't intend. If that's the case, cool. I do still take umbrage with your use of anecdotal evidence as proof of a wider 'recruitment' effort, something that I've never encountered in my entire life in California.

I hold that this 'recruitment' you claim is going on is no different than the behavior of straight folks in their attempts to find a match.

1144 American Sabra  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:12:34pm

I thought homosexuality was very much a part of civilization in the Greek and Roman cultures 1000s of years ago? Later shoved in the closet by Christianity. I don't see this as a new phenomenom at all (well not a pheomenom at all really), just a revived one.

1145 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:16:02pm

re: #1139 American Sabra

It says, "Men are pigs." Straight or gay is beside the point.

Some are. Some aren't.

1146 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:23:05pm
1147 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:25:24pm
1148 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:28:13pm

re: #1141 buzzsawmonkey

Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

That was an enlightened time!

/sarc

What are you afraid of exactly? I really want to know, what horrors (aside from clean drinking water, science, and cures for common illness) you are avoiding by swimming in old testament waters.

A flat-earth simplicity will not help to address modern understanding of sexuality.

But call me ignorant if you want, it's easier than explaining such dissonance.

1149 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:34:03pm
1150 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:38:23pm
1151 chukardog  Tue, May 5, 2009 1:51:39pm

Guys,

to deny that the founders weren't deeply Christian and that their Christian beliefs didn't have huge part in the founding of this nation is just plain silly. You would have to ignore a lot of their writings in order to delude yourself into believing it. We are, and have always been Christian nation. The whole idea of our rights being "god given" and not handed down by a state or government didn't come from the Greeks or the Romans, it came from the Bible.
I've said it before, I'm not a Christian but I understand and appreciate its influence in shaping our nation and culture. The loony left and the media demonize Christians at any opportunity. I have no time for Christphobes. Opposing gay marriage because of religious beliefs is your right. Anyone who's says that is losing issue for the GOP simply isn't paying attention. Every single time its put up for a vote it fails, even in places where libtards are thick like California it loses.

1152 American Sabra  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:08:48pm

re: #1147 buzzsawmonkey

You don't understand the distinction between homosexual behavior (Greek, Roman, Canaanite, whatever) and homosexuality, do you?

Well maybe not, but it was my understanding that the Greeks, et al where even farther out of the closet than they are today. Where homosexuality was common place and not just confined to out of the way behaviours. Am I wrong?

1153 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:19:47pm
1154 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:19:54pm

re: #1149 buzzsawmonkey

What on earth are you blathering about?

If you are one of those moral idiots who wishes to dismiss the Bible out of hand, by all means, say so--and tell us, while you're at it, what you use as your moral compass.

I don't know what you think a "modern understanding of sexuality" is, or how it is an improvement on that of ancient times, but perhaps you'd care to enlighten us all. Do you really think that "modern understanding" has added something to the comprehension of human desire and behavior? If so, what?

In the meantime, you don't seem to understand the distinction between homosexual acts and the "homosexuality" which your beloved "modern understanding of sexuality" has inflicted upon us.

Do you have anything constructive to say, or can you only sneer?

Are you medicated?

Regarding the bible as a moral compass, do you really want to open this can of worms? Really? Have you ever actually read the thing?

Leviticus
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death.--20:9

And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.--21:9

Of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families ... and they shall be your possession.--25:45

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.--26:29

"The swine ... is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch." 11:7-8

And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean.--15:19

And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.--15:24

Thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.--18:19

And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged.--19:20

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.--20:27

...

Of course there's more.

Lots more.

But what about all of the things missing from the bible?

Can you find things like a basic explanation of diseases caused by microorganisms? How about basic laws of motion, or chemistry? An explanation of magnetism? Electricity? How about why the sky is blue? Or why the ocean has tides?

The Bible is not beyond criticism.

Get real.

1155 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:23:24pm

re: #1146 buzzsawmonkey

You are wrong.

The attempt of someone self-defined as "gay" to bed and/or "turn" someone self-defined as "straight" is a particular effort by the person who, having self-segregated him- or herself, to re-cross the line they themselves have defined and drag someone over it. It's a sort of Sadie Hawkins Day thing.

Perhaps, if there was no other interest in 'bedding' said person. I suspect there's genuine interest in the person for their other traits though. Still, it's no different than straight people trying to bed folks they know to be gay, but you ignored that point.

The effort to urge someone to self-segregate by "coming out" is an effort to "recruit" by ensuring that someone will isolate themselves from the larger society.

Which we all do, straight or gay, by simply being straight or gay. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

The effort to extend such self-segregation as early as possible, to ensure that someone will grow to adulthood having made a "choice" whether or not that choice is, in fact, appropriate, is a particularly predatory extension of the recruitment described above.

As I said before, sexual predation is a separate issue entirely. It's one that plagues all gender preferences.

The effort to justify such recruitment behavior via academic blather--i.e., "queer theory"--is no different from the efforts by leftwing theorists to justify any number of other social distortions in the name of "intellectual inquiry."

I'll take your word for it, although I reiterate that in my entire life in the socially liberal state of California, I've never been aware of any such thing actually taking place.

1156 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:27:48pm
1157 American Sabra  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:29:16pm

re: #1145 Yashmak

Some are. Some aren't.

Absolutely. But I think you would agree that men who cheat on their wives with another man are probably pigs.

Also, it's extremely rare for a woman to exhibit abhorrent sexual behavior in the way men do, like rape or pedophilia or worse. Certainly not all men are pervs.

I've been around gay people my whole life and while I do agree that there are gay men who actively pursue straight men, I sense a level of conspiracy in what Buzz says that I find discriminatory and just plain wrong. Gays today are usually in committed relationships (thanks to AIDS) or are searching for such. At any rate, there are for more committed couples today than ever before, partly because the law recognizes their needs are the same as any.

1158 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:29:58pm

re: #1154 idioma

If I may: buzzsawmonkey is an extremely thoughtful, educated, and articulate contributor to this website. You would do yourself a favor if you could manage to address him with this in mind. I assure you, he is not "medicated", and such condescension does little to enhance your argument.

1159 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:35:15pm

re: #1151 chukardog

Guys,

to deny that the founders weren't deeply Christian and that their Christian beliefs didn't have huge part in the founding of this nation is just plain silly.

Not if you're actually aware of early American history.

You would have to ignore a lot of their writings in order to delude yourself into believing it.

You'd have to ignore alot of their writings in order to believe that all of the founding fathers WERE deeply religious. In particular, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin come to mind. George Washington was an avid reader of deist literature, and was fond of the ideas posited by the likes of Descartes and Locke.

Christianity had a definite influence on the foundation of our nation, that much is true. But you cannot make a blanket statement that the founders were religious, when a significant number were actually opposed to organized religion, preferring notions like deism.

Opposing gay marriage because of religious beliefs is your right. Anyone who's says that is losing issue for the GOP simply isn't paying attention. Every single time its put up for a vote it fails, even in places where libtards are thick like California it loses.

In California's recent election, Prop 8 passed because of liberal minority voters. Had they not come out in droves to vote for Obama, gay marriage would be legal here now.

1160 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:38:24pm

re: #1157 American Sabra

Absolutely. But I think you would agree that men who cheat on their wives with another man are probably pigs.

Cheaters in general, regardless of gender, are pretty much pigs.

1161 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:41:36pm

re: #1157 American Sabra

Absolutely. But I think you would agree that men who cheat on their wives with another man are probably pigs.

Also, it's extremely rare for a woman to exhibit abhorrent sexual behavior in the way men do, like rape or pedophilia or worse. Certainly not all men are pervs.

I've been around gay people my whole life and while I do agree that there are gay men who actively pursue straight men, I sense a level of conspiracy in what Buzz says that I find discriminatory and just plain wrong. Gays today are usually in committed relationships (thanks to AIDS) or are searching for such. At any rate, there are for more committed couples today than ever before, partly because the law recognizes their needs are the same as any.

I don't understand - please help me. On one hand, you seem to validate what buzz has stated (as I have, at least in terms of anecdotal evidence), but directly after you suggest he is being discriminatory simply because he stated it. If he is correct, can he also be discriminatory? The use of the word "conspiracy" (referring to the aims of the gay community, I assume) is probably what is tripping me up when trying to understand your post - is there another way of saying what you intended to say?

1162 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:41:53pm

re: #1158 capitalist piglet

If I may: buzzsawmonkey is an extremely thoughtful, educated, and articulate contributor to this website. You would do yourself a favor if you could manage to address him with this in mind. I assure you, he is not "medicated", and such condescension does little to enhance your argument.

As are many of us. As I said in another recent topic. NO ONE is beyond reproach. If you disagree with what I have to say in the future, I'd appreciate it if you'd address it openly instead of down-dinging me simply for disagreeing with an 'extremely thoughtful, educated, and articulate contributor'. I would do you that favor.

1163 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:45:17pm

re: #1157 American Sabra

Also, it's extremely rare for a woman to exhibit abhorrent sexual behavior in the way men do, like rape or pedophilia or worse. Certainly not all men are pervs.

Ironic you should mention this. Here in California, in the city of Tracy, a day care provider (female) was arrested last week for sodomizing and killing an eight year old girl. The police experts were all tut-tutting and shaking their heads and agreeing "this just doesn't happen". But it did, nonetheless. I don't put much of anything past anyone, anymore.

1164 Yashmak  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:48:21pm

re: #1162 Yashmak

If you disagree with what I have to say in the future, I'd appreciate it if you'd address it openly instead of down-dinging me simply for disagreeing with an 'extremely thoughtful, educated, and articulate contributor'. I would do you that favor.

I note that the down-ding has disappeared. I appreciate it.

1165 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:49:18pm

re: #1156 buzzsawmonkey

You dismiss the bible's lack of science. If not science, how do you explain the natural world? What alternative is there? Do not say the bible, that's just silly and you know it.

science %P%ˈsīəns%P%
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment : the world of science and technology.
• a particular area of this : veterinary science %P% the agricultural sciences.
• a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject : the science of criminology.
• archaic knowledge of any kind.
ORIGIN Middle English (denoting knowledge): from Old French, from Latin scientia, from scire ‘know.’

Here's the part where you pay-the-fuck-attention: The Bible is a book, written by primitive people in a primitive time. It does not offer any real understanding of the natural world, and is a historical tombstone of how people structured their ideas in a time period when witches and wizards were real threats, the earth was a flat slate in the center of the universe, the sun, moon, and all stars revolving around it (they killed people for claiming otherwise), and diseases were caused by evil spirits.

You want to read some old stories? Learn some amazing tall-tales? Discover names too cumbersome to say out loud? Then The Bible has that for you. If, however, you want to understand really basic things about nature, don't bother with explanations penned by folks who thought menstruating women were a threat to an entire metropolis.

It's easy to label me as some kind of detached, uneducated, godless heathen, but I come from a church going family, and we did read the bible, pretty often in fact. I speak with years of bible study; but I always found it to be fables with specific objectives. To make the bible into something as grand as the unquestionable-absolute-word-of-the-all-mighty-super-poobah is just silly. Do you really believe that people get swallowed by giant fish? or that a 450 foot long boat made of wood could hold two of every creature? At best you are delusional, at worst a genuine threat.

1166 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:52:20pm

re: #1162 Yashmak

As are many of us. As I said in another recent topic. NO ONE is beyond reproach. If you disagree with what I have to say in the future, I'd appreciate it if you'd address it openly instead of down-dinging me simply for disagreeing with an 'extremely thoughtful, educated, and articulate contributor'. I would do you that favor.


You'll have to point me to a post where I downdinged you, because I can't find it. Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else?

And as far as I know, it's all right for me to approve or disapprove of a comment without taking up additional bandwidth to explain why. I rarely downding, and when I do, it's for a variety of reasons - not necessarily disagreement. I don't see any reason to write an essay explaining myself every time I hit the red button.

1167 capitalist piglet  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:53:25pm

re: #1164 Yashmak

I note that the down-ding has disappeared. I appreciate it.

I never reversed a downding. I never made one in the first place. You were looking at something else, or confusing me with someone else.

1168 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:57:41pm
1169 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 2:58:17pm

re: #1158 capitalist piglet

If I may: buzzsawmonkey is an extremely thoughtful, educated, and articulate contributor to this website. You would do yourself a favor if you could manage to address him with this in mind. I assure you, he is not "medicated", and such condescension does little to enhance your argument.

I used to go fishing at a catch-and-release lake in central Florida; nowadays I find far greater fulfillment in being a fisher of men. All I do is drop a hook bated with unapologetic rationality and wait for a bite. It's not my fault that buzzmonkey bit.

He's the one that decided build his house upon the imbalanced foundation of religious cognitive dissonance today.

Not me.

If you think this is bad, just wait until I turn some married guys into atheist queers.

/sarc

1170 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:05:12pm
1171 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:07:13pm
1172 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:10:32pm
1173 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:19:17pm

re: #1168 buzzsawmonkey

I give you bible verse condoning slavery, violence against children, women, and people of different faiths; your response is:

"What is your problem with that?"

((((MY PROBLEM WITH THAT))))

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This is not Saudi Arabia.
This is not Germany circa 1935.
This is not the Vatican City.
This is not Pyongyang.

I am not the subject of a king.
I do not need someone in a funny hat to forgive me for being human.
I do not need to hold my tongue in the face of things some consider holy.
I do not have to live by a moral code drafted by oppressive and brutal times.

Because in this country, we have a contract, signed, sealed, and drenched in the blood of it's defenders.

"Sorcery is a form of idolatry, and is forbidden. What is your problem with that?"

Forbidden by whom? The First Amendment protects my rights.

For every example of unjust cruelty I gave you; you actually justified such cruelty! Do you some painfully strive to defend the honor killings under Islamic circumstances? Or is the Koran somehow different.

When you face the business end of a knife, it doesn't really matter what book got it there in the first place.

But you will ignore this contradiction, because your book is in a context that you agree with.

Enjoy brewing your own Sharia Law? This isn't the place for you.

1174 wrenchwench  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:19:48pm

re: #1172 buzzsawmonkey

I went back today and read a few posts. I disagree with your assessment. This person is interesting. His or her karma has a lot of updings as well as downdings.

1175 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:19:49pm

re: #1172 buzzsawmonkey

re: #1172 buzzsawmonkey

BTW:
idioma
Registered since: Nov 11, 2007 at 11:35 am
No. of comments posted: 48
No. of links posted: 0

Karma: -66

In other words, a lurker-troll.

He's a wizard! Burn him!

1176 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:29:04pm
1177 freetoken  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:30:15pm

re: #1168 buzzsawmonkey

Likewise, the families of Kohanim are held to a higher standard than other people.

And therefore you agree that the daughter ought to be burnt?

1178 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:31:02pm
1179 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:32:01pm
1180 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:40:52pm

re: #1177 freetoken

And therefore you agree that the daughter ought to be burnt?

Yep. It's even better than science!

1181 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 3:41:49pm
1182 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 4:17:02pm

re: #1176 buzzsawmonkey

You really are an idiot. And you really do not understand the difference between wild rhetorical excess and framing a cogent argument.

You cannot directly argue your way out of the contradiction, so that makes me an idiot? Cool.

You don't like the Bible? Fine. Nobody's asking you to.

You are asking me to like the bible. That's the whole argument isn't it? Being gay is wrong because it says so in the bible?

Then what do you use as your moral compass?

First, I go to a library.

I make a stack of all the story books written in the last 3,000 years (it's a pretty big stack, so I get the librarian to help).

Then, I take all of the books that advocate stoning and burning people to death, or removing parts of their body to teach them a lesson; those books I throw out.

Then I close my eyes, I spread out my arms and I spin wildly in a circle until I slap one of the remaining books from the non-mutilation-immolation-stone-pummeling stacks.

And that is what I am left with.

It takes all day, but it's still better than Leviticus.

"Nobody--certainly not I--has suggested that Torah law be made the law of the land."

Except when it comes to the queers of course.

If you believe that someone has, you are delusional.

So the whole Texas School Board thing was just a dream *phew!* that was really starting to scare me! Wasn't this post about Joe the Plumber using the bible to justify anti-gay sentiments?

At the same time, you are delusional if you believe that the passages you quoted "condone violence against children, women, people of different faiths." You are so wrapped up in your bigotry that you cannot listen intelligently to a simple statement, nor hold a civil discussion. Your loss.

So, you really think that all of those passages are compatible with the US Constitution? And because I do not think the bible is an appropriate basis for social policy (especially given the clear wording of the first amendment), you now consider me to be a bigot?

You are the one afraid of the gays, remember.

apparently, the factual statement that such a thing as gay recruitment exists. This is, of course, true--and it is equally true that you have not addressed this, but have instead attempted to concoct some Biblical strawman to distract from that reality. Doesn't work, my friend.

Ending a sentence in a debate with "my friend" didn't work for John McCain, so don't try it here either.

You want to be a conservative? You want the government out of peoples lives? You don't want to be subjected to follow the laws which govern religions differing from your own?

Then you better start looking at that First Amendment as a bigger foundation in your life.

I cannot choose to ignore it when it becomes inconvenient.

Examples of inconvenient moments for far-right religious conservatives:

Unflattering artwork with jesus as a subject.
People choosing to put chemicals in their own body.
People choosing to end a pregnancy.
People choosing to have sex.
People choosing to listen to music with controversial lyrics.
People openly criticizing religion.
People writing books about the immoral nature of the bible.
People conducting scientific studies about natural history.
People conducting scientific studies about the mechanisms of sexuality.

That First Amendment... It's a real humdinger!

1183 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 4:21:41pm

re: #1181 buzzsawmonkey

You sure you didn't register as "idiota?"

Come on, guy. Attacking someone's moniker is a stretch for any issue being debated.

1184 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 4:24:35pm
1185 idioma  Tue, May 5, 2009 4:33:24pm

re: #1184 buzzsawmonkey

You are sad. Really sad. I have expressed no "fear" of "gays"--or anyone else--here.

In the meantime, you have still failed to state what you use as a moral compass--if anything. I don't give a damn what you use--but I'd be interested to see if you are capable of stating it. Citing the First Amendment, as you now have twice, is not adequate; that is a secular law, not a basis for personal morality.

As far as Leviticus is concerned, it would be a waste of time to explain to you what does, or does not, apply, and how, in the modern age. You are too insanely bigoted for it to be worth the time.

I could simply say that I am an atheist; but I am sure that would send you into freak out mode. Or I could say that I view "reason" to be the body by which I form moral decisions, but you would dismiss that.

I'm whatever you think I am.

Making moral decisions without a bible is like trying to cook an omelet without having a xylophone handy.

But you will die of old age before that message sinks in.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go recruit some more men to sodomy

/

1186 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 4:42:26pm
1187 [deleted]  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:01:30pm
1188 solomonpanting  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:02:25pm

re: #1185 idioma

Or I could say that I view "reason" to be the body by which I form moral decisions, but you would dismiss that.

Ah, but one must trace back all of the steps; i.e., the historical aspects that would bring one up to current notions of what is reason in the modern world. It would be somewhat like building a modern automobile without having all the early innovations and improvements to use as a guide. One just doesn't develop reasoned ideas without prior starting points.

And, BTW, you are the first person I've read to claim the Bible should be a primer on science.

1189 stuiec  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:19:06pm

re: #1185 idioma

Oh, and next I suppose you are going to tell me that a man who's been dead three days can't spontaneously reanimate himself.

1190 Nemesis6  Tue, May 5, 2009 5:41:38pm

Joe the plumber is a reporter in the same capacity that Fox News is fair and balanced.

1191 stuiec  Tue, May 5, 2009 6:29:12pm

re: #1188 solomonpanting

And, BTW, you are the first person I've read to claim the Bible should be a primer on science.

Interesting thought experiment:

Suppose a modern-day secularist went back in time, oh, say, 3,500 years and wanted to educate a particular pastoral tribe about the origins of the universe. Wouldn't it be very difficult to communicate to the people of that time the notion of a Big Bang and billions of years of formation of stars and galaxies, followed by hundreds of millions of years of evolutionary development of life forms?

Mightn't a higher intelligence, in attempting to communicate those ideas, resort to stories, analogies, fables even?

It might be hard to explain the germ theory of disease to those pastoralists, but they might accept some weird arbitrary rules that had a hidden or inobvious health benefit.

It could be that the Torah is both Divinely inspired and not the literal word of God, a religious and social-political system with underpinnings derived from or compatible with science. Of course, that would pre-suppose that there is such a thing as God.

1192 scullymj  Tue, May 5, 2009 8:47:21pm

I'm gonna make a video à la Chris Crocker, "Leave Joe alone!" People, give the guy a break. He doing the best he can with what he's got, bless his heart. Joe's only problem is that he didn't end his statement with "bless their hearts". You can say anything you damn well please if you end it with "bless his heart".

But I know where he's coming from. A few years back, a young homosexual neighbor made a pass at me. I lowered my voice several octaves and informed him I liked women. That led to a conversation about his lifestyle. He said I liked women because I had not yet met the right man. In parting, he said he hoped I would change my mind because for an older man, he thought I was very attractive. Bless his homosexual heart.

So Joe, I know how you feel, they make my skin crawl also but hell, what are going to do? Stick to your standards and don't let the bastards get you down.

"Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society" - Aristotle

1193 erraticsphinx  Tue, May 5, 2009 9:17:05pm

re: #1192 scullymj

You are shameless, why not just say it " I HATE GAY PEOPLE", instead of the awkward "Oh no! Someone made a pass on me once!" argument.

1194 Fierce Guppy  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:43:42am

re: #1130 capitalist piglet

Aside from the business about science classes, where do you see support for "hanging witches, imprisoning gays, [and] imprisoning women for having abortions" in the Christian community at large?

This "business about science classes" is relevant to the rest. If the Bible is the "Word of God" then God-fearing men and women must support a whole lot of other crazy stuff in the Bible and not just the bits in Genesis even if not overtly. After all, the Bible is clearer about what is to be done with witches and homosexuals than the means by which God created life. Also, we know that lots of Christians see abortion as murder. I think the only reason why the fundamentalist Christians, in particular, are holding back on the other three is because the cultural climate in the U.S. is considerably more antagonistic to the idea of exacting punishment on witches, homosexuals, and women who've had an abortion than to having Creationism taught in the science class. I say, just drop the pretense of being rational people who stand for a limited government focused on safeguarding each person's Individual Rights if you believe the laws of the land, science, and education should be centred on the Bible. Just be sincere and consistent. That's all I'm wanting.

Tony.

1195 Throbert McGee  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:56:23am
Queer means strange and unusual. It’s not like a slur, like you would call a white person a honky or something like that.

"As a white guy, I reserve my right to resent being called 'honky,' but homosexuals shouldn't resent it if I call them 'queer.'"

He funny man!

1196 Throbert McGee  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:01:54am

re: #1192 scullymj

But I know where he's coming from. A few years back, a young homosexual neighbor made a pass at me. I lowered my voice several octaves and informed him I liked women.

Why didn't you just pin him face down on the cement floor of the loading dock with your powerful forearms while you were at it? /NSFW, but a Classic

1197 Yashmak  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:41am

re: #1167 capitalist piglet

I never reversed a downding. I never made one in the first place. You were looking at something else, or confusing me with someone else.

You may be right. If so, my apologies for taking you to task for it.

1198 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:11:19am
1199 American Sabra  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:35:20am

re: #1161 capitalist piglet

I don't understand - please help me. On one hand, you seem to validate what buzz has stated (as I have, at least in terms of anecdotal evidence), but directly after you suggest he is being discriminatory simply because he stated it. If he is correct, can he also be discriminatory? The use of the word "conspiracy" (referring to the aims of the gay community, I assume) is probably what is tripping me up when trying to understand your post - is there another way of saying what you intended to say?

I'm confused over your confusion! He's right. Many gay men do like straight guys or straight "acting" guys. Others like queens. What I consider his conspiracy is the 1-4 Level business. It was very methodical and I don't believe that's accurate. Particularly the Queer Theory which is probably at the bottom of most of this. It puts emphasis on choice rather than biology, as if gays were behind some nefarious plan to ensnare the unwilling straight male, separating them from the pack to indoctrinate them with their gayness.... or something. It's really out there to me. Am I to believe that men are so weak that they are incapable of standing up for themselves and saying no to gay sex? I mean really.

1200 American Sabra  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:45:18am

re: #1163 Yashmak

Ironic you should mention this. Here in California, in the city of Tracy, a day care provider (female) was arrested last week for sodomizing and killing an eight year old girl. The police experts were all tut-tutting and shaking their heads and agreeing "this just doesn't happen". But it did, nonetheless. I don't put much of anything past anyone, anymore.

Well I did say "rare" not "never". I saw that case actually and I find it very odd particularly that they're saying she acted alone which is even more rare. Women who are involved with these kinds of crimes are most often being directed by a man. Anyway, I find it difficult to believe she is being held for that crime.

1201 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:56:52am
1202 Lanzman  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:21:05pm

Joe the plumber does not speak for me. Like everyone else, he has his own views. Some I agree with, some I don't. It's no more complicated than that.

1203 Yashmak  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:39:57pm

re: #1199 American Sabra

Am I to believe that men are so weak that they are incapable of standing up for themselves and saying no to gay sex? I mean really.

You do kind of have to believe that, if you want to buy into buzz's whole Levels thing.

However, as far as pushing the outer boundaries of "gay identity" go, they mirror the old Jim Crow laws which decreed that the slightest drop of "Negro blood" made you black; one drunken roll in the hay with your college roommate, one circle jerk on a Boy Scout overnighter, and bingo! you are "gay," and "denying your true self" if you don't publicly identify as such.

- buzzsawmonkey

I think you're incorrect on this notion. In an hour of searching for data on the gay population of this nation, every single study I found cited online (even those cited on websites devoted to the gay community) explicitly differentiated between folks who were gay, those who are bi-sexual, those who have merely experimented with same sex intimacy, and those who are 'curious'. Obviously the gay community does not, in fact, consider a single same sex encounter to indicate that a person is gay.

1204 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:00:14pm
1205 elclynn  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:42:21pm

"I wouldn't let them near my kids".
I spent the better part of my son's first ten years saying "he's not a child molester", because I had a gay friend who visited frequently. Sad that Joe treats his "friends" in such a dubious manner. I actually miss the time in the US when government and everyone else stayed the hell out of everyone's bedrooms and churches, synagogues etc;. We were a much more tolerant society.

1206 Yashmak  Thu, May 7, 2009 8:55:05am

re: #1205 elclynn

"I wouldn't let them near my kids".
I spent the better part of my son's first ten years saying "he's not a child molester", because I had a gay friend who visited frequently. Sad that Joe treats his "friends" in such a dubious manner. I actually miss the time in the US when government and everyone else stayed the hell out of everyone's bedrooms and churches, synagogues etc;. We were a much more tolerant society.

Grass is always greener. Remember though, that we were more tolerant in some ways, and less tolerant in others.


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