British Islamic Center Arson Under Investigation

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Following angry demonstrations organized and attended by skinheads and BNP supporters in the British town of Luton (demonstrations praised by Pamela Geller of “Atlas Shrugs” as “pushback against Islamic extremists”), an Islamic center in the area has been the target of an arson attack.

Emergency services were called to the centre in Bury Park Road, Luton, Bedfordshire, just after midnight on Monday night.

Nobody was injured in the blaze, which started at the back of the building, but a spokesman said there was “considerable damage”. He said the road was likely to remain closed while forensic teams investigated the cause and warned motorists of possible rush- hour delays.

Police were also looking into links between the attack and a burnt-out BMW 3 Series found in nearby Elmore Road, the spokesman said. Inspector Martin Peters said: “It appears an accelerant was used and our immediate priorities include who started this fire and why, and making motorists aware.”

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262 comments
1 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:34:38pm

I hope they catch the responsible party before they can strike again and hurt somebody.

2 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:34:56pm
3 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:35:24pm

On a related note:

This breaking news story exposes the true topsy-turvy nature of British bureaucracy these days:

Michael Savage is banned from Britain, but...

Preacher of hate who heckled John Reid is freed early from jail

Abu Izzadine called for violent reprisals against coalition forces who had invaded Iraq
One of Britain's most notorious preachers of hate is back on the streets after being freed early from jail.

Abu Izzadeen, who publicly confronted John Reid when he was Home Secretary, had his jail term reduced by the Appeal Court - along with four other extremists convicted of supporting terror.

The ruling meant the ranting fanatic and a number of his fellow hardliners could immediately walk free because they had already done half of their reduced prison terms.

Douglas Murray, director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said the men were a danger to society.

'Abu Izzadeen and his organisation publicly call for attacks against those whom they see as enemies of Islam,' he said.

'Their ideology not only glorifies violent jihad but teaches their followers that taking part in suicide bombings is their duty as Muslims.

'The early release of a hate preacher like Abu Izzadeen demonstrates that the British courts are still far away from understanding the very clear and present danger that this country is facing from militant Islamists.'
Izzadeen - who was born a Christian with the name Omar Brooks, later changing his first name to Trevor - was jailed for four and a half years last April for inciting and raising funds for terrorism.

4 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:36:26pm

The politcal wings of the islamist orgs. in Europe are trying to reshape themselves as "the new jews" of europe to garner political clout. No thanks to the thugs who did this and thus help that cause. Islamophobia goes to Islamoparanoia.

5 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:37:16pm
6 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:37:58pm

This is more the tactic of neo-Nazis, but they'll blame the Joooos.

7 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:37:59pm

In the back of my mind, I can't help but think that this could've been an inside job... I doubt it was, but still...

8 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:38:41pm

One other note: This could turn out to be false flag and self inflicted as we have seen in some other cases, but I'm probabilities are much greater that it's probably real attack by real bigots.

9 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:39:06pm

They are the new Jews.

10 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:39:35pm

48 hour rule in effect.

11 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:39:39pm

Thanks goodness they banned Michael Savage. Narrows down their investigation considerably.
/

12 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:40:16pm

re: #4 Thanos

The politcal wings of the islamist orgs. in Europe are trying to reshape themselves as "the new jews" of europe to garner political clout. No thanks to the thugs who did this and thus help that cause. Islamophobia goes to Islamoparanoia.

true that, but people also sometimes do things to them selves & then shout victim... I think I will wait for the investigation.

13 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:40:43pm

I call for the 48 hour rule here. I don't doubt that a BNP skinhead might have been the arsonist but there have also been a few cases where it turned out the vandalism at a Mosque was an inside job meant to elicit sympathy.

14 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:41:05pm

re: #8 Thanos

One other note: This could turn out to be false flag and self inflicted as we have seen in some other cases, but I'm probabilities are much greater that it's probably real attack by real bigots.

I agree. There was recent video of an imam in Australia breaking into his own mosque. I could see perhaps a false operation involving vandalism, but arson? I lean towards bigots in this case, but hopefully the investigators will be able to nab whoever it is that's behind this.

15 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:41:12pm

re: #7 MrSilverDragon

There was that imam in Australia a few months ago who was caught vandalizing his own mosque. It could be anything but if I had to bet I's bet on Eurofascists.

16 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:41:19pm

Arg. arg. arg. I have to quit typing while I'm talking on bridges. I'm sounding like yoda.

17 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:41:26pm

Was the building insured?

18 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:41:56pm
The blaze comes only a month after a small group of extremist Muslim protesters marred a soldiers' homecoming parade in the town, holding placards saying "Anglian Soldiers: Butchers of Basra" and "Anglian Soldiers: cowards, killers, extremists".

I wonder if it was the "protesters" mosque, or if the local mosque is being blamed for the actions of outsiders.

19 DisturbedEma  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:42:15pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

I agree. There was recent video of an imam in Australia breaking into his own mosque. I could see perhaps a false operation involving vandalism, but arson? I lean towards bigots in this case, but hopefully the investigators will be able to nab whoever it is that's behind this.

Me too. . .the enemy of my enemy may hate me too. . .

20 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:42:19pm

Britain is spiraling out of control into extremism. In both directions (as always happens).

By fostering and coddling Islamic extremists, and quashing and muzzling even sensible or semi-sensible criticism of them, the Brits have given a foothold to the anti-Muslim extremists/BNP-types, who saw an "unexploited market niche" -- resistance to creeping Islamism -- and moved forcfully into the gap.

BNP is gaining strength because there is no moderate alternative to it.

21 Querent  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:42:23pm

re: #18 Ben Hur

I wonder if it was the "protesters" mosque, or if the local mosque is being blamed for the actions of outsiders.

the plot sickens...

22 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:44:07pm
23 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:44:38pm

Lionheart sez.....

.... it is everybody elses fault by the Islamic militants fault who have been the ones to provoke someone into action.

For every action there is a reaction so people should not forget that Bury Park took centre stage on the morning of 7/7 when they blew up our country and killed 52 people and injured over 700, or during the biggest anti-terror operation at that time 'Operation Crevice' where the bomb maker from Bury Park was wanting to try and obtain a dirty bomb from the Russian mafia, or more recently the disruption of our returning troops to the town.

If the police and local government listened to the concerns of the community and acted, then these types of events would not take place. Instead the community is ignored, and vilified as right wing extremists and fascists if they object to militant Islam in their midst, by those same people whose responsibility it is to uphold and protect the local society in which we live.
....
The streets are awash with Afghani heroin and Al Qaeda terrorists!

24 Querent  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:44:43pm

re: #22 Creeping Eruption
well she HAS been playing with fire lately...

25 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:44:47pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

Wasn't that the "Uncovered Meat" Imam? Heres the video.

26 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:45:14pm

The recent St. George's day thing comes to mind... Pam posted that vid with the guy sieg heiling down the parade route iirc.

27 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:45:28pm

re: #20 zombie

Britain is spiraling out of control into extremism. In both directions (as always happens).

Extremism breeds extremism. Always.

28 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:45:39pm

Anti-Muslim bigotry is as ugly as all the other kinds.

29 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:45:47pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

There was that imam in Australia a few months ago who was caught vandalizing his own mosque. It could be anything but if I had to bet I's bet on Eurofascists.

That's one of the reasons that thought popped into my head, recalling that incident.

re: #12 brookly red

You disagree with my thought?

30 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:45:59pm

re: #9 Ben Hur

They are the new Jews.

The Jews are the new Jews

31 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:46:26pm

I wonder if militant islamists would target and burn a moderate mosque.

32 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:46:52pm

One of Lionheart's commenters....

I wonder if Luton will be the flashpoint for civil war in Europe as Westerners combat the Moslem invasion?
33 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:46:53pm

re: #31 Sharmuta

I wonder if militant islamists would target and burn a moderate mosque.

They've blown up mosques all over Iraq, no?

34 wrenchwench  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:47:05pm

re: #16 Thanos

Arg. arg. arg. I have to quit typing while I'm talking on bridges. I'm sounding like yoda.

Are you blogging while driving again?

35 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:47:16pm

Before WWII, the UK had the British Fascist Union (Mosby's outfit), and we had the German-American Bund, as well as the America Firsters.

36 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:48:21pm

re: #30 Alouette

The Jews are the new Jews

This year's Jew is Jewish.

37 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:48:22pm

re: #29 MrSilverDragon

That's one of the reasons that thought popped into my head, recalling that incident.

re: #12 brookly red

You disagree with my thought?

Maybe yes, maybe no. Things sometimes are what they appear to be too... I think I will wait for the results of the investigation

38 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:48:27pm

re: #9 Ben Hur

They are the new Jews.

Nah – they won't be the new Jews until they have a holocaust which is later denied.

39 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:48:36pm

re: #33 Ben Hur

They've blown up mosques all over Iraq, no?

Yes. That's what's troubling- it could be a couple different sets of extremists, or self-inflicted. I hope who ever it is behind this is caught before someone gets caught in the crossfire.

40 lawhawk  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:48:38pm

re: #31 Sharmuta

They have no problem slaughtering thousands of Muslims throughout Iraq during the course of the Iraqi insurgency; Islamic terrorists bomb and slaughter innocent Muslims in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and elsewhere in the world. I don't see the compulsion to force anyone who doesn't submit to Islam as the Islamists do slacken because it's a moderate mosque. If anything, it's greater because they'd see it as apostasy (punishable by death).

41 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:49:23pm

re: #34 wrenchwench

Are you blogging while driving again?

No, we have a "war room" going... I have to keep the cast of hundreds out of the briar patches and off the rabbit trails.

42 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:49:44pm
The blaze comes only a month after a small group of extremist Muslim protesters marred a soldiers' homecoming parade in the town, holding placards saying "Anglian Soldiers: Butchers of Basra" and "Anglian Soldiers: cowards, killers, extremists".

Did they really call them extremists? Heads will roll!

43 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:49:48pm

re: #38 gmsc

Nah – they won't be the new Jews until they have a holocaust which is later denied.

But they already have 57 homelands.

44 Querent  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:49:50pm

re: #41 Thanos
herding cats?

45 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:50:19pm

Of course this doesn't mean I support the muslim "protesters'" actions at the welcome home parade.

Because that's how the far right will call it. Not that I give a sh*t.

46 KenJen  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:50:42pm

England is covered with CCTV's. They could have it on video unless the govt. is not allowed to film islamic centers...which would not surpise me.

47 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:50:42pm

re: #43 Alouette

But they already have 57 homelands.

/and counting...

48 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:50:56pm

re: #43 Alouette

But they already have 57 homelands.


Don't forget Europe.

49 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:51:59pm

Things could get real ugly, real quick. There will be extremists on both sides using this to their advantage.

50 subsailor68  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:52:54pm

re: #35 quickjustice

Before WWII, the UK had the British Fascist Union (Mosby's outfit), and we had the German-American Bund, as well as the America Firsters.

Yep. It's touched on, briefly, in that wonderful movie "The Remains of the Day."

51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:52:59pm

re: #49 FurryOldGuyJeans

I hate European Extremists!

52 kansas  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:53:30pm

Islamic centre 'arson' investigated by police Wonder why they used the parenthesis around arson?

53 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:53:43pm

re: #31 Sharmuta

I wonder if militant islamists would target and burn a moderate mosque.

For sure. They do that all the time in Pakistan.

54 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:53:44pm

re: #37 brookly red

Maybe yes, maybe no. Things sometimes are what they appear to be too... I think I will wait for the results of the investigation

Most assuredly. I didn't say it was, just the thought popped into my head about the possibility. It's all good.

55 Dr. Shalit  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:53:52pm

Bug 'em, don't burn em. Bad manners that.

-S-

56 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:54:56pm

re: #52 kansas

Islamic centre 'arson' investigated by police Wonder why they used the parenthesis around arson?

/oooops, a goat kicked over the lantern...

57 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:55:10pm

re: #51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hate European Extremists!

Oh yeah? Well I hate people who hate European Extremists.
/

58 Querent  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:55:24pm

re: #56 brookly red

/oooops, a goat kicked over the lantern...

and there'll be a hot time in Luton tonight?

59 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:56:19pm

re: #51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hate European Extremists!

Without any irony, hypocrisy, or sarcasm intended, so do I. This could be the flashpoint of a wider deep-shit conflagration. Both sides are itching for a fight, and are looking for a good enough excuse to start swinging.

60 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:56:23pm

re: #54 MrSilverDragon

Most assuredly. I didn't say it was, just the thought popped into my head about the possibility. It's all good.

seems to be a popular thought a popin, we shall see...

61 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:56:39pm

re: #44 Querent

herding cats?

Nailing jello to fences, babysitting and bullying..,

62 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:56:43pm

re: #31 Sharmuta

I wonder if militant islamists would target and burn a moderate mosque.

They have in the past. Many times.


SAMARRA, Iraq - Insurgents detonated bombs inside one of
Iraq’s holiest Shiite shrines Wednesday, destroying its golden dome and triggering more than 60 reprisal attacks on Sunni mosques. The president warned that extremists were pushing the country toward civil war, as many Shiites lashed out at the United States as partly to blame.

As the gold dome of the 1,200-year-old Askariya shrine lay in ruins, leaders on both sides called for calm: But the string of back-and-forth attacks seemed to push the country closer to all-out civil war than at any point in the three years since the U.S.-led overthrow of
Saddam Hussein.

“We are facing a major conspiracy that is targeting Iraq’s unity,” said President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd. “We should all stand hand in hand to prevent the danger of a civil war.”

63 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:56:46pm

This isn't "pushback". It's arson. Pushback would be enforcing the laws against bigamy. Pushback would be deporting persons in the country illegally. Pushback would be banning the import of child brides. Pushback would be punishing "honor killings". Pushback would be enforcing the laws against suicide bombings, car bombings, tube bombings, and, well, arson. Of course, they'd have to be enforced impartially. Off to jail with these clueless self-styled pushbackers.

64 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:56:49pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Lionheart sez.....

.... it is everybody elses fault by the Islamic militants fault who have been the ones to provoke someone into action.

Sounding sympathetic to the arsonist might not be a good idea.

65 KenJen  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:57:03pm

re: #52 kansas

Islamic centre 'arson' investigated by police Wonder why they used the parenthesis around arson?

Innocent until proven guilty? Someone could have left an iron on or fallen asleep while smoking./

66 Querent  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:57:08pm

re: #61 Thanos
yep. 'tis a thankless, dirty job, and you're just the Lizard to do it.

67 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:57:15pm

re: #20 zombie

BNP is gaining strength because there is no moderate alternative to it.

I've noticed that these Eurofascist groups seem to have gained in members and influence since the politicians in Europe have attached themselves to the EU. It's almost as if this is a nationalistic overreaction to the international EU more than it is to the Muslims, and the Muslims and Jews (again) are being used as a scapegoat.

68 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:58:20pm

re: #67 Honorary Yooper

I've noticed that these Eurofascist groups seem to have gained in members and influence since the politicians in Europe have attached themselves to the EU. It's almost as if this is a nationalistic overreaction to the international EU more than it is to the Muslims, and the Muslims and Jews (again) are being used as a scapegoat.

No matter the cause, it is a very alarming trend that shows no sign of abating.

69 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:59:12pm

re: #65 KenJen

Innocent until proven guilty? Someone could have left an iron on or fallen asleep while smoking./

/ or had a premature detination...

70 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 12:59:48pm

re: #9 Ben Hur

They are the new Jews.

That will be their spin. Exactly.

71 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:00:14pm

re: #70 callahan23

That will be their spin. Exactly.


My point exactly.

72 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:00:24pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Lionheart sez.....

.... it is everybody elses fault by the Islamic militants fault who have been the ones to provoke someone into action.

And that's the guy Pamela Geller praises as a hero of free speech.

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:00:57pm

President 0bama is about to make a speech with the Afgan and Pakistani head honchos.

This'll be fun.

I am sure all strife is over.

74 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:01:15pm

re: #72 Charles

And that's the guy Pamela Geller praises as a hero of free speech.

Ms. Geller is a fucking loon.

75 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:01:30pm

re: #68 FurryOldGuyJeans

No matter the cause, it is a very alarming trend that shows no sign of abating.

You are right. And it will end in another incident like we saw in the 1930's-40's, and have seen a number of times on a smaller scale since then, and many times in the recorded history of the world.

76 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:01:54pm

re: #59 FurryOldGuyJeans

Without any irony, hypocrisy, or sarcasm intended, so do I. This could be the flashpoint of a wider deep-shit conflagration. Both sides are itching for a fight, and are looking for a good enough excuse to start swinging.

I'm afraid your'e right. I think what is playing out here is the age old history of migrating peoples displacing others in their migration.
In the past the encroached upon people would either move away or fight.
In today's environment moving away is not a real option, hence the urge to fight.
What is needed is a mechanism for moderating and adjudicating the boundaries, so to speak. When that mechanism is absent, which it seems to be here, the outcome will be unpleasant to say the least.

77 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:02:18pm

re: #68 FurryOldGuyJeans

No matter the cause, it is a very alarming trend that shows no sign of abating.

Oh, it is very alarming indeed. I'm just looking at potential root causes in search of a cure. As Zombie said, there seem to be no moderate parties in Europe, and there certainly seem to be no classic American-type parties there either to counteract this fascist scourge.

Things do not look good over there right now. With the BNP and their ilk, it's Eurofascist vs. Islamofascist vs. Socalist. No one we want to side with.

78 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:02:18pm

re: #71 Ben Hur

My point exactly.

Ohh, what out, downdinger on #9

79 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:04pm

re: #75 Walter L. Newton

You are right. And it will end in another incident like we saw in the 1930's-40's, and have seen a number of times on a smaller scale since then, and many times in the recorded history of the world.

I was primarily thinking of the radicalism of the 60's when I wrote my comment, but there was a bit of Reichstag in the back as well.

80 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:08pm

Wow. Bruce Bawer just put up an awesome post at his blog on the meltdown of the anti-jihad movement.

81 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:22pm

re: #67 Honorary Yooper

I've noticed that these Eurofascist groups seem to have gained in members and influence since the politicians in Europe have attached themselves to the EU. It's almost as if this is a nationalistic overreaction to the international EU more than it is to the Muslims, and the Muslims and Jews (again) are being used as a scapegoat.

Fascists usually encourage increased violence to help them acquire power. That's what I see going on in europe right now. They're playing both sides- they're involved in the violence they say they'll help stop.

82 kansas  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:23pm

< re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

President 0bama is about to make a speech with the Afgan and Pakistani head honchos.
.

TOTUS is on deck.

83 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:25pm
84 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:26pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

President 0bama is about to make a speech with the Afgan and Pakistani head honchos.

This'll be fun.

I am sure all strife is over.

Well, he's not going to say, " I know I don't look like the other presidents......"

////

85 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:31pm

This one is really gonna sting some people.

86 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:03:52pm

re: #83 buzzsawmonkey

It's not surprising Britain has so many Muslims; they've had moors for thousands of years.

Roger is one of them.......

87 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:04:03pm

re: #72 Charles

And that's the guy Pamela Geller praises as a hero of free speech.

It never ceases to amaze me that Geller can praise Lionheart, condemn Buchanan, and memorialize the Holocaust at the same time. She's fucking nuts.

88 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:04:11pm

re: #78 callahan23

Ohh, what out, downdinger on #9

Pppfffttt.....

89 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:04:22pm

re: #71 Ben Hur

Is this you out for a spin?

90 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:04:30pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

President 0bama is about to make a speech with the Afgan and Pakistani head honchos.

This'll be fun.

I am sure all strife is over.

Are they asking for asylum in the US rather than throwing themselves on the "mercy" of the Taliban?

91 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:04:34pm

OT

McCain on Cavuto talking about Obama wanting to give WELFARE $$$ to Gitmo enemy combatants / detainees upon release here in the USA!

Let's give radical islamic extremists WELFARE, heck why not a Harvard education?

(on Fox Cable news)

92 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:05:03pm

re: #77 Honorary Yooper

Oh, it is very alarming indeed. I'm just looking at potential root causes in search of a cure. As Zombie said, there seem to be no moderate parties in Europe, and there certainly seem to be no classic American-type parties there either to counteract this fascist scourge.

Things do not look good over there right now. With the BNP and their ilk, it's Eurofascist vs. Islamofascist vs. Socalist. No one we want to side with.

Yoop, no offense, but root causes are for historians to ruminate over, after the fact. We have to deal with the shit, now. Why they hate doesn't change the fact that their hate is toxic to civilization.

93 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:05:04pm

re: #68 FurryOldGuyJeans

No matter the cause, it is a very alarming trend that shows no sign of abating.

and when they make their move, it's going to be very messy....no one can stop them if they don't want to be stopped....it's coming

94 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:05:47pm

re: #52 kansas

Islamic centre 'arson' investigated by police Wonder why they used the parenthesis around arson?

We've seen any number of hate crimes in the U.S. that, when the security footage was played, showed that the complainant was also the perp. The possibility has to be taken into account.

95 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:05:48pm

re: #91 alegrias

OT

McCain on Cavuto talking about Obama wanting to give WELFARE $$$ to Gitmo enemy combatants / detainees upon release here in the USA!

Let's give radical islamic extremists WELFARE, heck why not a Harvard education?

(on Fox Cable news)

We could make them community organizers. I'm sure ACORN has some positions available.....
////

96 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:05:54pm

re: #85 Charles

This one is really gonna sting some people.

Holy Moley, you ain't kiddin'!

97 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:06:07pm

re: #65 KenJen

Innocent until proven guilty? Someone could have left an iron on or fallen asleep while smoking./

Smoking while wearing a burka is very dangerous. It's like smoking in bed under the sheets.

98 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:06:10pm

Awaiting Pamela's condemnation of the ADL's condemnation of this barbaric act in three...two...one...

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:06:36pm

Am I smellin' a new thread in 5-4-3-2...?

100 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:06:37pm
101 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:06:47pm

re: #93 albusteve

and when they make their move, it's going to be very messy....no one can stop them if they don't want to be stopped....it's coming

They can be stopped, now, but the cost will be high. The cost after the shit hits the fan will be much, much higher.

102 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:06:49pm

OT
McCain on Pakistan nuclear threat, on Cavuto right now. Mac doesn't think the nukes are in danger by Taliban advance. I think is what he said.

103 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:06:50pm

re: #91 alegrias

OT
McCain on Cavuto talking about Obama wanting to give WELFARE $$$ to Gitmo enemy combatants / detainees upon release here in the USA!
Let's give radical islamic extremists WELFARE, heck why not a Harvard education?
(on Fox Cable news)

/That is silly, everybody knows that Harvard dosen't have a filght school...

104 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:07:01pm

I emailed Bruce to ask if I could republish his post.

105 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:07:22pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Am I smellin' a new thread in 5-4-3-2...?

This one still hasn't lost that new thread smell yet.

106 pegcity  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:07:23pm

re: #91 alegrias

didn't yale want to give a tali ban spokesman a full scholarship?

107 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:08:16pm

re: #80 Charles

Wow. Bruce Bawer just put up an awesome post at his blog on the meltdown of the anti-jihad movement.

Yes, it will sting some people, and sting them hard. Link

Money quote and question:

What the hell, one is entitled to wonder, is going on here? Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers? And why does at least one of them now take such a staggeringly contemptuous view of Pim Fortuyn? I can’t honestly say that I understand any of it. But I do know this: when writers who represent themselves as champions of liberty start cozying up to distinctly illiberal parties like Vlaams Belang – and when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise – then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

108 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:09:20pm

re: #80 Charles

Speaking of Dutch libertinism...

109 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:09:30pm

re: #106 pegcity

didn't yale want to give a tali ban spokesman a full scholarship?

* * * *
Good memory you have! Yes I believe you were right. As Jimmy Carter's book asked "Why Not The Best" for the Taliban!

110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:09:46pm

re: #100 Charles

Wow.

111 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:09:59pm

re: #100 Charles

[Link: www.brucebawer.com...]

That was a good read. I'm sure Mr Bawer can expect lots of slings and arrows shortly.

112 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:10:01pm

re: #102 alegrias

OT
McCain on Pakistan nuclear threat, on Cavuto right now. Mac doesn't think the nukes are in danger by Taliban advance. I think is what he said.

Trying to make Obama look good, eh, Mr. Senator?

113 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:10:09pm

re: #107 Honorary Yooper

Three guesses who he's referring to with this:

when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise...

114 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:10:13pm

re: #101 FurryOldGuyJeans

They can be stopped, now, but the cost will be high. The cost after the shit hits the fan will be much, much higher.

wow, read Charles link...holy shit...VB seems to have an insular effect....a safe haven for the fascist collective...what a friggin mess

115 jorline  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:10:19pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

President 0bama is about to make a speech with the Afgan and Pakistani head honchos.

This'll be fun.

I am sure all strife is over.

Pakistan...no worries here...nukes on lock down.
*burp*

116 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:10:25pm

re: #92 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yoop, no offense, but root causes are for historians to ruminate over, after the fact. We have to deal with the shit, now. Why they hate doesn't change the fact that their hate is toxic to civilization.

Very true. Part of my job is to try to stop problems before they get out of hand.

117 SixDegrees  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:10:34pm

re: #94 lostlakehiker

We've seen any number of hate crimes in the U.S. that, when the security footage was played, showed that the complainant was also the perp. The possibility has to be taken into account.

That is absolutely true; it's necessary to wait and find out who the perp actually is, based on evidence.

I question the quote marks too, though, because I don't think there's any doubt that this is arson, no matter who started the fire.

118 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:10:40pm

re: #111 Sharmuta

That was a good read. I'm sure Mr Bawer can expect lots of slings and arrows shortly.

And if Charles is given permission for a reprint, the lots will become a veritable deluge.

119 Truck Monkey  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:11:29pm

re: #59 FurryOldGuyJeans

Without any irony, hypocrisy, or sarcasm intended, so do I. This could be the flashpoint of a wider deep-shit conflagration. Both sides are itching for a fight, and are looking for a good enough excuse to start swinging.

And the people in the middle will suffer like always.

120 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:11:39pm

re: #113 Charles

Three guesses who he's referring to with this:

Hmmm. Let me see...

That sounds like he's referring to one Geert Wilders.

121 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:11:45pm

OT
McCain saying he Twitters, on Cavuto's show. Says GOP should use these new technologies the Obama campaign used to better effect.

(I thought they made clear McCain couldn't type because of his war injuries. McCain must have a dedicated Twitter tweet typer with him all day.)

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:11:50pm

re: #115 jorline

I sure wish they'd invite us to come in and secure them or move their nukes.

123 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:12:10pm

re: #104 Charles

I emailed Bruce to ask if I could republish his post.

I hope he says yes.

124 Miss Molly  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:12:25pm

I won't be suprised if there are more incidents of this nature in Britain. All the activities of the extreme Muslims have created a backlash. A pox on both groups but that still won't make them change their behavior or go away.

125 lawhawk  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:12:37pm

re: #113 Charles

Three guesses who he's referring to with this:

Robert Spencer?

126 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:12:37pm

OT
PRes. Obama talking on Pakistan & Afghanistan & Taliban NOW

127 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:25pm

re: #116 Honorary Yooper

Very true. Part of my job is to try to stop problems before they get out of hand.

We may have to know the enemy, but I don't want to think like 'em, or sympathize with 'em. Their grievances won't help improve the world, no matter how many invisible flying unicorns the POTUS farts out of his ass.

128 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:36pm

re: #118 FurryOldGuyJeans

And if Charles is given permission for a reprint, the lots will become a veritable deluge.

So be it. I think we, as a group, would rather take the slings and arrows than to give in to this madness.

129 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:39pm

re: #125 lawhawk

Robert Spencer?

my guess too

130 kansas  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:41pm

re: #126 alegrias

OT
PRes. Obama talking on Pakistan & Afghanistan & Taliban NOW

Has he apologized to any of them yet? Surrendered even?/

131 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:50pm

re: #126 alegrias

OT
PRes. Obama talking on Pakistan & Afghanistan & Taliban NOW

Saying much of nothing so far

132 Desert Dog  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:50pm

re: #121 alegrias

OT
McCain saying he Twitters, on Cavuto's show. Says GOP should use these new technologies the Obama campaign used to better effect.

(I thought they made clear McCain couldn't type because of his war injuries. McCain must have a dedicated Twitter tweet typer with him all day.)

Does that make him a "Twit" then?

133 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:52pm
(Never mind that I’ve defended Wilders frequently and that Wilders has blurbed my new book, Surrender.)

Uh oh.

Pasta and Anti-Pasta moment.

134 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:13:53pm

re: #125 lawhawk

Robert Spencer?

Who else could it possibly be?

135 jorline  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:14:25pm

re: #113 Charles

Three guesses who he's referring to with this:

when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise...

Robert, come out...come out here ever you are....

136 SixDegrees  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:14:37pm

re: #100 Charles

[Link: www.brucebawer.com...]

That's gonna leave a mark.

137 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:14:42pm

re: #100 Charles

[Link: www.brucebawer.com...]

I'm so very comfortable standing with Charles and Ayaan.

138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:14:53pm

re: #126 alegrias

Why does he say Afganistan (like in Stanley) and Pahkistahn?

Oh, you'll be glad to know; according to the TOTUS, "The talks were productive."

139 KenJen  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:14:57pm

re: #129 albusteve

my guess too

me three. The words fit him to a tee.

140 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:15:00pm

Christ he is talking about economic Enterprise zones while the taliban are right outside Islamabad?

141 Desert Dog  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:15:19pm

re: #138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why does he say Afganistan (like in Stanley) and Pahkistahn?

Oh, you'll be glad to know; according to the TOTUS, "The talks were productive."

Will there be peace in our time now?

142 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:15:34pm

re: #134 Sharmuta

Who else could it possibly be?

Pamela? But then I am not as conversant as a lot of lizards about the personalities in this.

143 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:15:47pm

re: #134 Sharmuta

Who else could it possibly be?

Geert Wilders is who I think it is. The writer Bawer is referring to seems to be Spencer.

144 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:02pm

re: #138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why does he say Afganistan (like in Stanley) and Pahkistahn?

Oh, you'll be glad to know; according to the TOTUS, "The talks were productive."

how much will it cost us?

145 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:04pm

We are building roads and schools and hospitals for Pakistan. I am sure when the Taliban take over they will appreciate that?

146 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:13pm

re: #123 Sharmuta

I hope he says yes.

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

147 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:16pm

re: #142 FurryOldGuyJeans

Pamela? But then I am not as conversant as a lot of lizards about the personalities in this.

Except for the use of the male pronoun.

148 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:40pm

re: #119 Truck Monkey

And the people in the middle will suffer like always.

In this there will be no innocent bystanders.

149 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:42pm

re: #130 kansas

Has he apologized to any of them yet? Surrendered even?/

If Obama could just find all of those "Moderate" Talban to negotiate with.
It must be killing him that he has not located them yet.

150 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:43pm

re: #146 Charles

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

Awesome.

151 Desert Dog  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:16:52pm

re: #145 Nevergiveup

We are building roads and schools and hospitals for Pakistan. I am sure when the Taliban take over they will appreciate that?

Yes, but they'll need a proper soccer stadium to perform executions. We better get cracking on that!

152 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:05pm

re: #126 alegrias

$400 million "bailout" for Pahkeestahn!

153 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:15pm

re: #146 Charles

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

We shall, and make sure you have your asbestos underwear on.

154 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:22pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

Except for the use of the male pronoun.

With some that is a quibbling nit. ;)

155 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:24pm

re: #145 Nevergiveup

We are building roads and schools and hospitals for Pakistan. I am sure when the Taliban take over they will appreciate that?

after they destroy the old one...yes

156 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:25pm

It's going to be hard for people to ignore Bawer's last line.

But I do know this: when writers who represent themselves as champions of liberty start cozying up to distinctly illiberal parties like Vlaams Belang – and when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise – then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

But then again, he didn't mention names, so maybe they will.

157 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:26pm

re: #137 debutaunt

I'm so very comfortable standing with Charles and Ayaan.

Charles has classy allies. They have.... crass allies.

158 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:31pm

OT
Pres. Obama wants Jack Kemp's "enterprise zones" between Afghanistan & Pakistan. Here comes another bailout package for the Taliban.

Lots of meetings will be held. Just like the MidEast "Peace Process" that goes nowhere.

Slap at our super military. They're trying in Afghanistan but need weak allies' non-fighting NATO troops to bolster our effort.

Resources resources resources. More violence and setbacks coming.bla bla bla

159 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:38pm

re: #146 Charles

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

Tinfoil or three-cornered?

160 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:17:46pm

And I love my hats too much to let them go.

161 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:18:28pm

re: #156 HelloDare

It's going to be hard for people to ignore Bawer's last line.


But then again, he didn't mention names, so maybe they will.

Could be Geert.

162 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:18:30pm

Well I am off to Yankee Game and First trip the new stadium any minute

163 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:18:51pm

So basically Obama just said nothing

164 Desert Dog  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:19:04pm

re: #158 alegrias

OT
Pres. Obama wants Jack Kemp's "enterprise zones" between Afghanistan & Pakistan. Here comes another bailout package for the Taliban.

Lots of meetings will be held. Just like the MidEast "Peace Process" that goes nowhere.

Slap at our super military. They're trying in Afghanistan but need weak allies' non-fighting NATO troops to bolster our effort.

Resources resources resources. More violence and setbacks coming.bla bla bla

Does this mean that Obama will become the majority share holder in the Heroin Trade? I wonder how the Poppy Pickers Union will respond to that?
/

165 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:19:06pm

re: #113 Charles

Three guesses who he's referring to with this:

Jimmy Carter?
*snigger*
/maybe?

166 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:19:13pm

re: #162 Nevergiveup

Well I am off to Yankee Game and First trip the new stadium any minute

lemmie know how the sushi is :)

167 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:19:43pm

re: #154 FurryOldGuyJeans

I think this sounds more like pam:

others insist vehemently that Belien & co. are terrific folks, and claim that their checkered reputation is entirely the work of Charles Johnson.

168 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:19:45pm

re: #146 Charles

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

*WHOOP-WHOOP*

General Quarters, General Quarters. This is not a drill, repeat, this is not a drill.

169 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:19:50pm

re: #164 Desert Dog

Does this mean that Obama will become the majority share holder in the Heroin Trade? I wonder how the Poppy Pickers Union will respond to that?
/

the PPU will bow to the Onester

170 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:20:00pm

Forget getting your popcorn ready. This may require MRE's.

171 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:20:03pm

re: #166 brookly red

lemmie know how the sushi is :)

ya know where they serve that? Or is that at Citi Park. Anyway I want to know where the steak is?

172 lawhawk  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:20:10pm

re: #162 Nevergiveup

Well I am off to Yankee Game and First trip the new stadium any minute

Have fun, and bring a credit card. Food and souveniers can get expensive. Fast (as in faster than the Yankee starting pitching will be hitting the showers these days).

173 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:21:19pm

re: #167 Sharmuta

Yep, that sounds like Bawer is referring to Pam, but also Bodissey, Dymphna, and maybe even Spencer in that quote.

174 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:21:29pm

re: #172 lawhawk

Have fun, and bring a credit card. Food and souveniers can get expensive. Fast (as in faster than the Yankee starting pitching will be hitting the showers these days).

I got 6 hundred good old american dollars

175 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:21:43pm

re: #163 Nevergiveup

So basically Obama just said nothing

Not nothing... he said, & I quote:

"blah, blah, blah...$400 million... blah, blah, blah... Pahkeestahn... blah, blah, blah... Afghanistan... blah, blah, blah...9-11... blah, blah, blah. Thank you very much."

176 Desert Dog  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:21:44pm

re: #162 Nevergiveup

Well I am off to Yankee Game and First trip the new stadium any minute

Let me know if Hillary is there, she will cheering for the "New York team" to score many touchdowns.

177 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:21:59pm

re: #146 Charles

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

It would be really fun to open registration now, too! ;-)

178 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:01pm

re: #173 Honorary Yooper

Yep, that sounds like Bawer is referring to Pam, but also Bodissey, Dymphna, and maybe even Spencer in that quote.

they all look alike

179 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:04pm

re: #175 Kenneth

Not nothing... he said, & I quote:

"blah, blah, blah...$400 million... blah, blah, blah... Pahkeestahn... blah, blah, blah... Afghanistan... blah, blah, blah...9-11... blah, blah, blah. Thank you very much."

Yup that's what I heard

180 Desert Dog  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:05pm

re: #174 Nevergiveup

I got 6 hundred good old american dollars

So, just one hot dog and a beer then?

181 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:17pm

re: #160 Sharmuta

Do you wear hats? Really? I love hats.

182 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:23pm

re: #174 Nevergiveup

I got 6 hundred good old american dollars

So, worth about $1.95...

/

183 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:35pm

re: #145 Nevergiveup

We are building roads and schools and hospitals for Pakistan. I am sure when the Taliban take over they will appreciate that?

I recall watching a video with a high ranking Taliban in Afghanistan prior to 9/11. It took place at a UN donated soccer stadium which the Taliban had converted to an execution area for those that displeased them, prositutes, gays, music listeners etc.
When it was pointed out that this was not the usage the UN had in mind he said, "Then they should build us another stadium."

184 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:41pm

re: #180 Desert Dog

So, just one hot dog and a beer then?

Will let ya all know- I'm outa here bye

185 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:22:54pm

re: #174 Nevergiveup

I got 6 hundred good old american dollars

that should cover the parking...

186 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:23:28pm

re: #177 Russkilitlover

It would be really fun to open registration now, too! ;-)

Mayhem and chaos is gonna be the result!?!

187 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:23:30pm

re: #178 albusteve

they all look alike

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
-George Orwell, Animal Farm

188 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:23:36pm

re: #158 alegrias

OT
Pres. Obama wants Jack Kemp's "enterprise zones" between Afghanistan & Pakistan. Here comes another bailout package for the Taliban.

Lots of meetings will be held. Just like the MidEast "Peace Process" that goes nowhere.

Slap at our super military. They're trying in Afghanistan but need weak allies' non-fighting NATO troops to bolster our effort.

Resources resources resources. More violence and setbacks coming.bla bla bla

I'm sure the Taliban will set up their own "enterprise zone", or "nuclear bazaar".

189 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:23:39pm

re: #181 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do you wear hats? Really? I love hats.

Yep. Some women have a shoe fetish. Mine is hats.

190 Miss Molly  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:24:07pm

It doesn't matter what you give Afganstan or the Taliban -- it will never be enough especially after they wreck everything you send.

191 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:24:23pm

re: #7 MrSilverDragon

In the back of my mind, I can't help but think that this could've been an inside job... I doubt it was, but still...

An excuse to remodel?

192 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:24:24pm

re: #183 opnion

When it was pointed out that this was not the usage the UN had in mind he said, "Then they should build us another stadium."

Actually, what he said is that the UN should build for them "a proper place of execution" then we won't have to use the stadium.

193 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:24:41pm

These words stand out from Bruce Bawer's blog entry:

Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers?

But I do know this: when writers who represent themselves as champions of liberty start cozying up to distinctly illiberal parties like Vlaams Belang – and when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise – then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

194 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:05pm

re: #178 albusteve

they all look alike

It's the spiffy brown uniforms.

195 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:07pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

Yep. Some women have a shoe fetish. Mine is hats.

Ohh, swoon. I think I just fell in love. %-)

196 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:19pm

re: #191 Ward Cleaver

An excuse to remodel?

I need to buy a spillproof keyboard. Upding for the spittake!

197 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:23pm

re: #188 Kosh's Shadow

I'm sure the Taliban will set up their own "enterprise zone", or "nuclear bazaar".

* * * *
Democrats appear unawares that Afghanistan is on the Olde Silk TRADE ROUTEs of yesteryear.

To become world's top poppy exporters, Afghans must know a little about "enterprise."

Ughhh.

198 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:28pm

re: #175 Kenneth

Not nothing... he said, & I quote:

"blah, blah, blah...$400 million... blah, blah, blah... Pahkeestahn... blah, blah, blah... Afghanistan... blah, blah, blah...9-11... blah, blah, blah. Thank you very much."

400 M, sheesh that less that half of what the palis got...

199 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:29pm

re: #146 Charles

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

Good article, I wish he'd have named names on some of the people that have been rebuking him.

200 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:30pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

Yep. Some women have a shoe fetish. Mine is hats.

You can leave your hat on...

201 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:56pm

re: #200 Kenneth

Beat me to it.

202 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:25:58pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

Yep. Some women have a shoe fetish. Mine is hats.

I love hats. I have a lot of hats. I buy hats when one takes my fancy. I rarely ever wear hats. Don't know why, I just never think of them when I'm going out.

203 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:26:11pm

re: #192 Kenneth

Actually, what he said is that the UN should build for them "a proper place of execution" then we won't have to use the stadium.

Your right, that is what he said. Thanks

204 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:26:49pm

re: #197 alegrias

NO WAR FOR SILK!

205 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:27:12pm

re: #204 Kenneth

NO WAR FOR SILK!

You worm.

206 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:27:31pm

re: #201 Creeping Eruption

Great song from a great movie.

207 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:27:52pm

re: #204 Kenneth

NO WAR FOR SILK!

that's a new spin

208 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:27:58pm

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

Good article, I wish he'd have named names on some of the people that have been rebuking him.

My guess is they will reveal themselves by their reactions to this article.

209 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:28:03pm

re: #204 Kenneth

NO WAR FOR SILK!

what about cashmere?

210 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:28:34pm

re: #80 Charles

Wow. Bruce Bawer just put up an awesome post at his blog on the meltdown of the anti-jihad movement.

That'll set some heads to 'splodin.

211 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:28:40pm

re: #205 Kosh's Shadow

You worm.

Maggot line is the new Maginot-Line.

212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:28:48pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

Yep. Some women have a shoe fetish. Mine is hats.

I think women look beautiful in hats all types.

213 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:05pm

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

Don't worry, the usual suspects will soon be screaming about it. They will pathetically insist they were the ones insulted.

214 J.S.  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:05pm

re: #9 Ben Hur

They are the new Jews.

the first time I came across this reversal (obscene as it is) was in the text, "If I am not for myself...:The liberal betrayal of the Jews" by Ruth Wisse. It was (and continues to be) an incredible insight. The text was published in 1992...yes, 1992...(what incredible prescience of Ruth Wisse.)

215 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:07pm

re: #204 Kenneth

NO WAR FOR SILK!

You're just trying to string us along.

216 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:09pm

re: #206 Kenneth

Great song from a great movie.

Absolutely. A kid can learn a lot from that movie. Seeing a young Mickey Rourke reminds me of college where I had a friend who looked exactly like (and acted somewhat like) Mickey Rourke in Barfly - another great movie.

217 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:19pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

My guess is they will reveal themselves by their reactions to this article.

I was just going to post that exact notion...they are out there and can't resist

218 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:23pm

re: #209 brookly red

what about cashmere?

Goat or rabbit?

219 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:29:36pm

re: #204 Kenneth

NO WAR FOR SILK!

I'll bet Obama has friends in the garment industry who will gain unfathomable riches from his misguided War for Silk.
/

220 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:08pm

By the way. Robert Spencer wrote a rather strange article about the "possibility" the Barack Obama is a Muslim at Front Page. There are some things he says there that I don't want to repeat but it's sure to raise some eyebrows. Here's a tiny portion:

If it is true that Obama was registered in school as a Muslim when he was a child, he could possibly be charged with being an apostate from Islam.

He goes on to put the president in the context of the Muslim penalty for possibly being an apostate. I think he's pushing the envelope here -- way to far. He might be getting a visit from the Secret Service if he keeps it up.

221 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:12pm

Insane excitement fills the air
As fascist words fly everywhere
Skinheads and Islamists fight
Cars and buildings burn all night
Apocalyptic shreiking too...
As all turn slowly on the Jew.

222 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:22pm

re: #219 LGoPs

I'll bet Obama has friends in the garment industry who will gain unfathomable riches from his misguided War for Silk.
/

Obama doesn't have the moral fiber.

223 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:25pm

Palate Cleanser: MATRIX REDUX

One of the standout sequences in the otherwise unnecessary sequels to The Matrix comes when Neo fights off an endless swarm of Agent Smiths. Well, make some popcorn, because you’re about to see that scene the way it was meant to be made–with puppies and a kitten.

224 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:31pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

My guess is they will reveal themselves by their reactions to this article.

They'll be angry enough as it is that Bawer need not name them for they will name themselves. Watch for angry posts at Gates of Vienna Beef, Atlas Shrieks, and Jihad Watch over the next 24 hours.

225 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:34pm

re: #212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think women look beautiful in hats all types.

....in nothing but hats.....
:)

226 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:31:40pm

re: #209 brookly red

what about cashmere?

If cashmere was made from sheep wouldn't it be cashewe?
Hmmmmmmmm?

227 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:32:24pm

re: #222 Ward Cleaver

Obama doesn't have the moral fiber.

That was good. You've got me in stitches.....
:)

228 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:32:52pm

Hey! Where'd everybody go?
*looking around*

229 UncleRancher  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:33:43pm

re: #228 LGoPs

Hey! Where'd everybody go?
*looking around*

Present.

230 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:33:49pm
231 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:33:57pm

re: #226 LGoPs

If cashmere was made from sheep wouldn't it be cashewe?
Hmmmmmmmm?

If you are correct, than Cashmere comes from . . . Merekat? Ewwwww.

Or should I say ewe?

232 JustABill  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:34:35pm

re: #220 Gus 802

By the way. Robert Spencer wrote a rather strange article about the "possibility" the Barack Obama is a Muslim at Front Page. There are some things he says there that I don't want to repeat but it's sure to raise some eyebrows. Here's a tiny portion:


He goes on to put the president in the context of the Muslim penalty for possibly being an apostate. I think he's pushing the envelope here -- way to far. He might be getting a visit from the Secret Service if he keeps it up.

Actually, I have been thinking along those same lines for a while. Especially when folks were saying that the Islamic world would accept him more as his father was Muslim. Not as a threat, mind you, but as a prediction. We will hear him being called Apostate from somewhere in the Islamic world before his term is out...

233 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:35:59pm

re: #100 Charles

[Link: www.brucebawer.com...]

Wow, I am certainly happy that he doesn't have open comments there, the heads exploding replies would be ugly to behold.

234 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:42:14pm

re: #229 UncleRancher

Present.

Is it your birthday?

*just kidding* :)

235 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:43:04pm

re: #223 HelloDare

Palate Cleanser: MATRIX REDUX

One of the standout sequences in the otherwise unnecessary sequels to The Matrix comes when Neo fights off an endless swarm of Agent Smiths. Well, make some popcorn, because you’re about to see that scene the way it was meant to be made–with puppies and a kitten.


[Video]

I like this version of the Matrix:

Morpheus: "The Matrix . . . is the most advanced Windows program ever developed."

Neo: "Wait . . . Windows?!?"

236 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:45:27pm

re: #220 Gus 802

When he lived in Indonesia he was registered for school by his step-father and on the form Obama's religion was listed as Muslim. Under sharia, any child of a Muslim father is automatically considered a Muslim. The child or the mother have no say in it. Therefore, technically speaking, as far as Indonesian law is concerned he was Muslim.

He also attended mosque several times and almost certainly recited the shahadah. That too would declare him legally a Muslim under sharia.

After Obama returned to the US with his mother, Obama never joined a mosque. He wrote in his autobiography that Rev Wright "introduced me to my faith" as a Christian. TUC is admittedly not a mainstream Christian church. Obama has declared he was never a practicing Muslim.

Apostasy, or conversion away from Islam, is illegal under sharia law in every Muslim country in the world. The penalty differs from country to country: death, imprisonment or fines. Hypothetically, Obama could be declared an apostate by a Muslim court.

In my opinion, a positive effect of all this is that Obama may serve as a role model for religious freedom in the Muslims world. His example may inspire other unbelieving Muslims to leave Islam.

237 Shai  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:47:22pm

These idiots who resort to the same tactics and barbarity of radical Muslims don't realize how destructive they are to their own cause. They're simply creating more sympathy for the Muslim world, and that is the last thing we need right now.

238 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:52:02pm

re: #236 Kenneth

When he lived in Indonesia he was registered for school by his step-father and on the form Obama's religion was listed as Muslim. Under sharia, any child of a Muslim father is automatically considered a Muslim. The child or the mother have no say in it. Therefore, technically speaking, as far as Indonesian law is concerned he was Muslim.

He also attended mosque several times and almost certainly recited the shahadah. That too would declare him legally a Muslim under sharia.

After Obama returned to the US with his mother, Obama never joined a mosque. He wrote in his autobiography that Rev Wright "introduced me to my faith" as a Christian. TUC is admittedly not a mainstream Christian church. Obama has declared he was never a practicing Muslim.

Apostasy, or conversion away from Islam, is illegal under sharia law in every Muslim country in the world. The penalty differs from country to country: death, imprisonment or fines. Hypothetically, Obama could be declared an apostate by a Muslim court.

In my opinion, a positive effect of all this is that Obama may serve as a role model for religious freedom in the Muslims world. His example may inspire other unbelieving Muslims to leave Islam.

Hypothetically it may work that way. However Spencer uses the title of "New Information Reveals Obama May Be First Muslim President." Use this Google search to find said article. I am not questioning the hypotheticals but I am questioning the title, premise, and violent scenarios that Spencer puts this in the context of the POTUS.

239 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:58:16pm

re: #146 Charles

He did.

Hold on to your hats.

There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth fangs.

240 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:58:23pm

re: #238 Gus 802

Only Obama knows for sure, but... if he was inclined that way, he certainly could have gone and joined a mosque long ago, and he didn't. I doubt he was walking around at age 20 thinking to himself,

"Hmm... I'd like to be a Muslim, but I have to keep it a secret because 27 years from now in some bizarre fluke of history, I'm going to be elected President of the United States. Good thing I got that fake Nirth Cert from Hawaii, too."

That is beyond believable.

241 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:08:54pm

From the Bawer article, which was originally published in City Journal, to which I subscribe:

"The past few decades in Europe have made three things crystal-clear. First, social-democratic welfare systems work best, to the extent they do work, in ethnically and culturally homogeneous (and preferably small) nations whose citizens, viewing one another as members of an extended family, are loath to exploit government provisions for the needy. Second, the best way to destroy such welfare systems is to take in large numbers of immigrants from poor, oppressive and corruption-ridden societies, whose rule of the road is to grab everything you can get your hands on. And third, the system will be wiped out even faster if many of those immigrants are fundamentalist Muslims who view bankrupting the West as a contribution to jihad. Add to all this the growing power of an unelected European Union bureaucracy that has encouraged Muslim immigration and taken steps to punish criticism of it—criminalizing "incitement of racism, xenophobia or hatred against a racial, ethnic or religious group" in 2007, for example—and you can start to understand why Western Europeans who prize their freedoms are resisting the so-called leadership of their see-no-evil elites.

The November 2001 general election in Denmark is the most decisive—and successful—rejection so far of a Western European left-wing establishment. Alarmed by a widely publicized study showing that their country would have a Muslim majority within 60 years if immigration rates didn't change, Danish voters sent the Social Democrats down to defeat for the first time since 1924. The new Liberal-Conservative governing coalition, which voters returned to power in 2005, has introduced the Continent's most sweeping immigration and integration reforms, including rules designed to thwart the near-universal practice in Europe's Muslim communities of marrying one's children off to cousins abroad so that they, too, may immigrate to the West. As a result, the flow of new Muslim arrivals has decreased significantly, allowing the government to focus resources on the immense challenge of trying to integrate Muslims already living in Denmark. Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen also defended free speech strongly during the 2006 Muhammad cartoon crisis, standing firm while Muslims around the world raged against Denmark and Western leaders begged him to back down."

242 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:16:09pm

re: #236 Kenneth

The United Church of Christ (UCC) of which Obama's Trinity United was a part, is "mainstream", although it's the most leftist of the American Protestant denominations. In particular, the national leadership of the church support gay marriage and "social justice" initiatives which involve "spreading around the wealth".

That said, because the church's form of governance is congregational, the national leadership is very weak politically within the church. Individual congregations set church policy. Many such congregations are quite conservative. On the other hand, many are as leftist as the leadership.

243 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:21:41pm

re: #242 quickjustice

They follow Black Liberation Theology, which is not a mainstream Christian school, in my opinion.

244 J.S.  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:27:50pm

re: #238 Gus 802

I believe this article was put out there during Obama's campaign (it was written prior to Obama becoming President.) and, it did cause that "Obama's a closet Muslim!" meme to hit the Internet...(in a way, the article really backfired...it caused people to come to the defense of Obama.)

245 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:33:02pm

re: #244 J.S.

I believe this article was put out there during Obama's campaign (it was written prior to Obama becoming President.) and, it did cause that "Obama's a closet Muslim!" meme to hit the Internet...(in a way, the article really backfired...it caused people to come to the defense of Obama.)

Ah, you're right. I must have gotten confused since it came up as "new" and read "By FrontPage Magazine - 4 Hours Ago." Obviously the opening paragraphs date the article so I missed that too. The sentiment from Spencer still applies I'm sure.

246 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:37:37pm
247 pittrader1988  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:39:03pm

re: #242 quickjustice

I am a Presbyterian, and our church is as left as they come. I feel sometimes like I don't have a home there. However, whenever I have been to other churches in my area it's no better. Unless I try Baptist, or Catholic. Each not my type.

248 Wishbone  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:48:54pm

re: #52 kansas

Islamic centre 'arson' investigated by police Wonder why they used the parenthesis around arson?

I think I'll take a stab at that.

This is probably because no one has a clue whether this is even a 'crime' or not. There was a fire, no doubt of that. Whether or not that fire came about in the way of most other spontaneous blazes, or by way of a carefully placed match is up to fire investigators to figure out. That arson is 'suspected' merely means that the bugger reporting the crime reported it as such; that's how it works here.

...links between the attack and a burnt-out BMW 3 Series found in nearby Elmore Road...

A car found burnt out in a place where burnt out cars are probably more commonplace than civic art, on the same night as a 'suspected' arson attack? Not entirely grasping at straws, but we'll see.

The blaze comes only a month after a small group of extremist Muslim protesters marred a soldiers' homecoming parade in the town, holding placards saying "Anglian Soldiers: Butchers of Basra" and "Anglian Soldiers: cowards, killers, extremists".

... Inserting that paragraph attempts to draw a connection between the protests and this 'suspected arson', implying that the two may possibly be connected. There was no other reason for doing so, which is as much a crass bit of journalism as it gets.

I know....... Let's just see how this pans out during the course of official investigation before we strike out on the nearest tangent to be put before us by a journalist who likes to presume without so much as a shred of concrete evidence to back up their tenuous theories.

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:54:43pm

re: #92 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yoop, no offense, but root causes are for historians to ruminate over, after the fact. We have to deal with the shit, now. Why they hate doesn't change the fact that their hate is toxic to civilization.

Ah, I think you need to have as good a sense of why things are happening as they happen as you can. It gives you more options as you react.

250 Ezekiel2517  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:00:26pm

Dateline Ireland, 427AD:
Irish Militant Extremist known by the alias "St. Patrick" insensitively expels snakes from Ireland in horrific display of anti-herpetological bigotry.

Film at 11.

251 nikis-knight  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:03:03pm

If it's arson, I hope the people who started are found and flogged, and forced to pay for the damages. Thank God no one was hurt.

252 Ezekiel2517  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:11:53pm

I'm confused. You mean it's not important to look for the root cause of this criminal act and try to understand why the arsonist hates Islam?

/

253 hellosnackbar  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:43:18pm

re#248 Wishbone,
I'll go with that,there's a tendency to sensationalise non events with
tenuous linking.
It begs the question if one plans to burn a place down then it's pretty easy.
BTW did you see Chelsky versus Barce.
very controversial ref decisions.
Love the civic art crack.

254 hellosnackbar  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:45:48pm

re #248 Wishbone,
My ding a ling isn't working!

255 citizen_canuck  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:52:57pm

re: #63 lostlakehiker

"Pushback" is when the people act because their government has failed them. As is the case in Britain!

256 Eowyn2  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:54:17pm

re: #57 LGoPs

Oh yeah? Well I hate people who hate European Extremists.
/


I hate all haters.

257 Mad Mullah  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:51:16pm

The town where the mosque is located is a hotbed of Islamic extremism and Al-Qaeda.

Town at the end of the terrorist trails

The five fertiliser bombers convicted on Monday may have been based in Crawley but it was the Bedfordshire town where they made contact with al-Qa'eda.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

258 willie wonka  Thu, May 7, 2009 5:45:20am

re: #8 Thanos

If it is false flag or self inflicted we'll never hear of it again. That just wouldn't be PC. "Nothing to see here folks, move along....."

259 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 7, 2009 9:33:45am

re: #248 Wishbone

This is probably because no one has a clue whether this is even a 'crime' or not. There was a fire, no doubt of that. Whether or not that fire came about in the way of most other spontaneous blazes, or by way of a carefully placed match is up to fire investigators to figure out. That arson is 'suspected' merely means that the bugger reporting the crime reported it as such; that's how it works here.

That's not correct. You must have missed this quote from the article:

Inspector Martin Peters said: “It appears an accelerant was used..."

The presence of an accelerant (probably gasoline or kerosene) makes arson highly probable.

260 cagney  Thu, May 7, 2009 10:17:15am

#259

Why would the 3 series, which isn't the most inconspicuous of cars, be used for the crime?

The article does sound a bit sensationalist and a tad irresponsible.

261 Wishbone  Thu, May 7, 2009 11:06:01am

re: #259 Charles

I had noticed the quote and, not to be picky Charles, but when a copper says something 'appears' to be, what they're saying is: 'we think so, but until a full and impartial forensic investigation is concluded, we're keeping schtum and that's all the press is getting for now'

The probability of this being arson, as opposed to being a straight up insurance job (not much of a difference in law, but as a motive it's of interest to us) will indeed be much higher once the type and method of accelerant is established.

One other thing I'll throw out there for consideration, 'cos this has been bugging me somewhat, is this......

While non Brits may have difficulty putting this point in cultural context, I'd nevertheless ask our Brit posters who have experience in 'Asian' neighbourhoods to consider this poser: Just how inconspicuous could would be single arsonist or a bunch of white boys in a 3 series Beamer be, in the middle of a Luton 'Asian' district, even before attempting to so much as look sideways at an Islamic centre or mosque, or whatever?

To my mind, about as inconspicuous as a reggae band at a KKK meeting.

But see how that sits with what we know of these neighbourhoods.

262 elrushbuni  Thu, May 7, 2009 6:22:31pm

It would be just like the Islamic center proponents to set the thing on fire for insurance and blame it on anti-Jihadists. This way they get more bang for their buck.


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