Bruce Bawer on the ‘Anti-Jihad’ Meltdown

Opinion • Views: 7,592

Bruce Bawer, author of While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within and Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom, has issued an unequivocal denunciation of the so-called “anti-jihad” bloggers and writers who are advocating alliances with European fascist parties such as Belgium’s Vlaams Belang. With Bruce’s permission, I’m reprinting his whole post here:

Thursday, May 6, 2009, 9:28 P.M. CET: �Recently, Andrew Sullivan posted a link to an article about Charles Johnson, the celebrated blogger who has distanced himself from many other anti-jihadists and called them “a bunch of kooks.”� Though it grieves me to say so, and though I’ve hoped that things would somehow turn around, Charles is, alas, not whistling Dixie: I can testify that in the last couple of years some significant, and lamentable, shifts have taken place on the anti-jihad front.� Writers and bloggers whom, not very long ago, I would unhesitatingly have described as staunch defenders of liberal values against Islamofascist intolerance have more recently said and done things that have dismayed me, and that, in many cases, have compelled me to re-examine my view of them.

Once upon a time, these people made a point of distancing themselves from far-right European parties such as Belgium’s Vlaams Belang – whose most prominent Internet voice, Paul Belien, has declared himself to be fighting for “Judeo-Christian morality” not only against jihadist Islam but also against “secular humanism.”� Belien has made no secret of his contempt for gay people and for the idea that they deserve human rights as much as anyone else.� Now, however, many of the anti-jihadist writers who once firmly rejected Vlaams Belang have come to embrace it wholeheartedly.� In fact, for reasons unknown to me, this regional party in one of Europe’s smallest countries appears to have become, for a number of anti-jihadist writers on both sides of the Atlantic, nothing short of a litmus test: in their eyes, it seems, if you’re not willing to genuflect to VB, you’re not a real anti-jihadist.

I happen to be aware of this new state of affairs because during the last year or so I’ve been scolded by a number of respected and accomplished writers for refusing to make nice with Vlaams Belang.� Some of them have done this gently, pleadingly; others, who once addressed me with civility and respect as a fellow independent writer, have taken a harsh and hectoring, and in two or three cases even a condescending and bullying tone with me, as if they’re the bosses of some political machine and I’m an irksome underling who’s deviating from the party line.� The shift is, frankly, breathtaking.� Some of these writers have admitted privately that VB is bad news but argue that the party is nonetheless a valuable ally in the struggle against the Islamization of Europe, just as Stalin was a useful partner in the war on Hitler; others insist vehemently that Belien & co. are terrific folks, and claim that their checkered reputation is entirely the work of Charles Johnson.� Never mind that other right-wing European parties, such as Norway’s Progress Party, have explicitly distanced themselves from VB; never mind that in 2006 Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a far more well informed student of Benelux politics than any of VB’s eager new boosters, called VB “a racist, anti-Semitic, extremist party that is unkind to women” and earlier today, while acknowledging that “the party has adjusted its rhetoric and seems to have dropped its anti-Semitic stance,” told me in an e-mail that “it’s very difficult to know whether this [adjustment] is genuine or political pragmatism.”

The other day, in the wake of my City Journal piece “Heirs to Fortuyn?”, a couple of anti-jihad writers who had not yet rebuked me for my stance on Vlaams Belang finally got around to doing so.� Not only did they send me e-mails taking me to task for criticizing VB in that article; one of them also took it upon himself to chew me out for, in his view, admiring Pim Fortuyn too much and Geert Wilders too little.� (Never mind that I’ve defended Wilders frequently and that Wilders has blurbed my new book, Surrender.)� Wilders, this individual felt compelled to lecture me, is a far greater figure than Fortuyn ever was.� Why?� Because, he explained, Wilders stands for “Western values,” while Fortuyn stood only for – get ready for this – “Dutch libertinism.”

Yes, “Dutch libertinism.” The words took my breath away. During the last few days (while, as it happened, I was visiting Amsterdam) I haven’t been able to get them out of my mind. For a self-styled anti-jihadist – who, by the way, I first met three years ago at the Pim Fortuyn Memorial Conference in The Hague – to refer in this way to a man who sacrificed his life for human liberty is, in my view, not only incomprehensible but profoundly despicable. This is, after all, precisely the sort of language that Dutch Muslim leaders hurled at Fortuyn during his lifetime. And in the present case the words were plainly aimed not only at Fortuyn but at me – a writer who, like Fortuyn, that great martyr for freedom, is gay.

What the hell, one is entitled to wonder, is going on here? Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers? And why does at least one of them now take such a staggeringly contemptuous view of Pim Fortuyn? I can’t honestly say that I understand any of it. But I do know this: when writers who represent themselves as champions of liberty start cozying up to distinctly illiberal parties like Vlaams Belang – and when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise – then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

Jump to bottom

861 comments
1 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:49pm

Bruce Bawer for EU President!

2 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:30:50pm

I can hear Pamela screeching now.

3 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:31:42pm

is he the last admirable public figure left? They're falling by the wayside like flies, all over the political spectrum.

4 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:31:53pm

All one has to do is search "Pim Fortuyn Memorial Conference" to get an idea of whom Mr Bawer is speaking.

5 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:31:57pm

Been awhile since we've seen the three little footballs. Cool.

6 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:32:17pm

Watch for some massive head exploding.

/Gallagher has nothing on this.

7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:32:38pm
Some of these writers have admitted privately that VB is bad news but argue that the party is nonetheless a valuable ally in the struggle against the Islamization of Europe, just as Stalin was a useful partner in the war on Hitler

Charles. Thanks for educating me on this.

8 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:33:11pm
Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers?

The only answer I can offer Mr Bawer is- they fundamentally agree with them.

9 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:33:13pm

re: #2 Ward Cleaver

I can hear Pamela screeching now.

She'll have it up on Atlas Shrieks soon enough.

10 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:33:43pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

The only answer I can offer Mr Bawer is- they fundamentally agree with them.

Sadly, Sharmuta, I believe you are right. They do fundamentally agree with them.

11 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:33:49pm

the entire entry...heh

12 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:34:11pm

For once, the screaming this is going to cause is going to drown out the voices in my head.

/kind of

13 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:34:17pm

"Some of these writers have admitted privately that VB is bad news but argue that the party is nonetheless a valuable ally in the struggle against the Islamization of Europe, just as Stalin was a useful partner in the war on Hitler..."

And some of the anti-jihadist don't care what these groups particular politics are, as long as they are anti-jihad...

Wait, you want an example... ?

14 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:35:16pm

I love this blog!

15 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:35:20pm

re: #2 Ward Cleaver

I can hear Pamela screeching now.

The gold leaf is melting. I'm melting...I'm melting.

16 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:35:55pm
17 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:36:52pm

OK, anyone have a bet on when the first meltdown will occur?

18 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:36:53pm

re: #15 HelloDare

The gold leaf is melting. I'm melting...I'm melting.

/i know a doctor who can help you wit dat...

19 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:37:23pm

re: #7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Charles. Thanks for educating me on this.

Same here.

20 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:37:32pm

That rocks.

RRRR,
R

21 lawhawk  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:37:52pm

Passing out the sponges and handi-wipes for those in the front row. Galoshes and raingear should be provided at the door.

This can't be stated enough:

What the hell, one is entitled to wonder, is going on here? Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers? And why does at least one of them now take such a staggeringly contemptuous view of Pim Fortuyn? I can’t honestly say that I understand any of it. But I do know this: when writers who represent themselves as champions of liberty start cozying up to distinctly illiberal parties like Vlaams Belang – and when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise – then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

Robert Spencer and all those who continue to fawn over his position on the matter, you must account for yourself as to why you're cozying up with a bunch of illiberal and racists. You can and should be doing so much more (and better). There are alternatives to dealing with the devil in VB, and yet this is your choice?

As Bawer says, something is seriously wrong.

22 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:37:56pm

Great post Bruce, if you are wondering about the "anti-gay", there's always been an undertone of .... let's say "orthodoxy" there that they kept under wraps because it served their cause.

23 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:38:33pm

Spencer - "Get my lawyer on the phone!"

24 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:38:58pm

Bruce Bawer provide a compact and accurate description of the "Anti-Jihad Meltdown." The first reference and link is sure to cause a great deal of genuflecting from the caveman sector of the blogosphere.

25 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:39:18pm

re: #17 Honorary Yooper

OK, anyone have a bet on when the first meltdown will occur?

Among one of the hatchlings?

26 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:39:28pm

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

Spencer - "Get my lawyer on the phone!"

[beep] . . .we're sorry, the call cannot be completed as dialed, please hang up and . . .

27 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:39:37pm
others insist vehemently that Belien & co. are terrific folks, and claim that their checkered reputation is entirely the work of Charles Johnson.

Of course! This is all just another aspect of the LGF-Illuminati plot. Various LGF minions forced filip dewinter to make these speeches years ago that he was for a "white europe", and we made him put that white supremacist symbol on his book shelf too. [eye roll]

28 Eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:40:04pm

You led the way Charles, and stuck to your guns.

Thanks for doing that.

29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:40:50pm

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

Spencer - "Get my lawyer on the phone!"

Aren't there a bunch of banned "lawyers" from LGF? Maybe they'd take the case.

30 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:41:11pm

Great post by Bawer.

This only reaffirms my contention that the left/right dichotomy has totally disintegrated, and that now we're in phase of no clear political spectrum. Everything is a jumbled mess, everyone is triangulating in a five-sided octagon of political alliances.

Certain people must be very confused by the Bawers/Johnson line, of taking a hard-but-not-extreme stance against Islamism: To draw a line in the sand, but in the correct place on the beach. To not use Islamic extremism as merely an excuse and a platform to advance an opposite extremism.

Staying reasonable when everyone else is going off the deep end is very difficult.

31 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:41:25pm

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

Spencer - "Get my lawyer on the phone!"

Slander/Libel 101....quiz tomorrow Bob

32 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:41:41pm

Insane excitement fills the air
As fascist words fly everywhere
Skinheads and Islamists fight
Cars and buildings burn all night
Apocalyptic shreiking too...
As all turn slowly on the Jew
Then it's next
For you or you

33 wrenchwench  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:41:46pm

re: #25 Ward Cleaver

Among one of the hatchlings?

I'll bet it will be a long-quiet sockie....

34 formercorpsman  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:41:55pm

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

That part stood out as well to me.

Do anyone need anymore evidence than that?

Admitted as much.

35 Diamond Bullet  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:42:47pm

Screw Vlaams Belang and the panzers they rode in on. This weekend I'm firing up the bbq and doing beer and brats with the guys from work, a buddy from college, and the nice lesbian couple from across the street. We're gonna have ourselves a big ol' American all-inclusive time, and there's not a goddamn thing the fascists or the jihadis can do about it. Heck, maybe we'll watch some baseball and air differing but polite political views. I'll insult Obama, they'll insult Bush, and at the end of the evening everyone makes sure people are still able to drive home safely. The collective moderateness is going to blow your little pinheads clear off. I do draw the line with one thing, though: no veggie burger shall ever touch my grill. That's just common sense.

36 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:43:11pm

re: #33 wrenchwench

I'll bet it will be a long-quiet sockie....

Usually one who has been around a long time, but has had little to say.

37 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:43:15pm

re: #15 HelloDare

The gold leaf is melting. I'm melting...I'm melting.

What would you do if we let you go home
And the plastic is melted and so is the chrome
Who are the Brain Police?
...
What would you do if the people you knew
Were the plastic that melted and the chromium too?
Who are the Brain Police

---Who are the Brain Police, Frank Zappa

38 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:44:23pm
39 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:44:25pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

A melting pot-o-rama. Sounds like fun.

40 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:44:28pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

Screw Vlaams Belang and the panzers they rode in on. This weekend I'm firing up the bbq and doing beer and brats with the guys from work, a buddy from college, and the nice lesbian couple from across the street. We're gonna have ourselves a big ol' American all-inclusive time, and there's not a goddamn thing the fascists or the jihadis can do about it. Heck, maybe we'll watch some baseball and air differing but polite political views. I'll insult Obama, they'll insult Bush, and at the end of the evening everyone makes sure people are still able to drive home safely. The collective moderateness is going to blow your little pinheads clear off. I do draw the line with one thing, though: no veggie burger shall ever touch my grill. That's just common sense.

I like it...America is great eh?

41 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:44:55pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

I do draw the line with one thing, though: no veggie burger shall ever touch my grill. That's just common sense.

Meatist!... oh wait, so am I.

42 jemima  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:45:33pm

re: #16 buzzsawmonkey

What's that I hear now, Phil?
The old ways falling? Hmmm?

I loved Phil Ochs. He would have loved this administration.

(shakes head)

43 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:46:02pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

no veggie burger shall ever touch my grill. That's just common sense.

That goes without saying, but I sure hope you boil your brats in beer before they go on the grill

44 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:46:19pm
I happen to be aware of this new state of affairs because during the last year or so I’ve been scolded by a number of respected and accomplished writers for refusing to make nice with Vlaams Belang.

Even them doing this to Mr Bawer is reprehensible to me. One of our cherished liberties is our right to free association. Trying to force the man into accepting ideological allies he doesn't want is akin to political rape.

45 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:46:36pm
46 Jetpilot1101  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:47:09pm
...then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

One of the better statements in the article. There is something terribly wrong with this picture and I think it will only get more "wronger" as folks, like lemmings, gravitate towards the the cacophony. As the saying goes, the squeeky whell gets the grease and Pamela sure fits the definition of a squeeky wheel.

47 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:47:19pm

re: #44 Sharmuta

Even them doing this to Mr Bawer is reprehensible to me. One of our cherished liberties is our right to free association. Trying to force the man into accepting ideological allies he doesn't want is akin to political rape.

They are attempting to either force us to pick their side or to be purged. I choose neither.

48 wrenchwench  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:48:05pm

re: #36 debutaunt

Usually one who has been around a long time, but has had little to say.

And yet--feels compelled to lament loudly over the inexplicable change that has come over this blog which he or she has spent hours at every day....

49 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:48:11pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

I do draw the line with one thing, though: no veggie burger shall ever touch my grill. That's just common sense.

I've always wondered what people would dress a veggie burger with? Lettuce and tomato and pickles? That would be redundant and even more importantly.....repetitive.../
Seems like the best way to dress a veggie burger is with a nice thick slab of Prime Rib.

50 Eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:48:36pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

Screw Vlaams Belang and the panzers they rode in on. This weekend I'm firing up the bbq and doing beer and brats with the guys from work, a buddy from college, and the nice lesbian couple from across the street. We're gonna have ourselves a big ol' American all-inclusive time, and there's not a goddamn thing the fascists or the jihadis can do about it. Heck, maybe we'll watch some baseball and air differing but polite political views. I'll insult Obama, they'll insult Bush, and at the end of the evening everyone makes sure people are still able to drive home safely. The collective moderateness is going to blow your little pinheads clear off. I do draw the line with one thing, though: no veggie burger shall ever touch my grill. That's just common sense.

That makes the short list for 'best post ever'.

51 Jetpilot1101  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:48:38pm

re: #47 Honorary Yooper

They are attempting to either force us to pick their side or to be purged. I choose neither.

Purge me, I don't care. I'd rather have my principles and be purged then sacrifice them on the altar of hate and intolerance.

52 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:49:01pm

re: #38 buzzsawmonkey

Ou sont les flics-craniales d'antan?

Actually, I have an answer to "who are the brain police", but the story I wrote is now undergoing drastic revision. Same idea for the brain police, but the plot of the story is about to become much more complicated.

53 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:49:10pm

OT and I gotta run!

Specter was stripped of seniority on four committees. Is kind of pissed. Reid promised him he wouldn't be stripped.

Yep. He's a Democrat now!

54 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:49:36pm

re: #46 Jetpilot1101

One of the better statements in the article. There is something terribly wrong with this picture and I think it will only get more "wronger" as folks, like lemmings, gravitate towards the the cacophony. As the saying goes, the squeeky whell gets the grease and Pamela sure fits the definition of a squeeky wheel.

Which is why we need to sound the alarm now. If we do not sound the alarm now, we will pay for it later. We cannot just let them run roughshod all over us, our freedom, and the lives and freedom of others.

55 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:49:50pm

re: #51 Jetpilot1101

Purge me, I don't care. I'd rather have my principles and be purged then sacrifice them on the altar of hate and intolerance.

I didn't leave the "counter-jihad". It left me.

56 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:49:58pm

re: #49 LGoPs

I've always wondered what people would dress a veggie burger with? Lettuce and tomato and pickles? That would be redundant and even more importantly.....repetitive.../
Seems like the best way to dress a veggie burger is with a nice thick slab of Prime Rib.

Well, since it is hard to find kosher burgers in most places, veggie burgers have their uses. And they are still kosher with cheese.

57 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:50:08pm

re: #49 LGoPs

I've always wondered what people would dress a veggie burger with? Lettuce and tomato and pickles? That would be redundant and even more importantly.....repetitive.../
Seems like the best way to dress a veggie burger is with a nice thick slab of Prime Rib.

incomprehensible...like putting a Chery Bomb muffler and mags on grandmas 4 door Catalina

58 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:50:21pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

Screw Vlaams Belang and the panzers they rode in on. This weekend I'm firing up the bbq and doing beer and brats with the guys from work, a buddy from college, and the nice lesbian couple from across the street. We're gonna have ourselves a big ol' American all-inclusive time, and there's not a goddamn thing the fascists or the jihadis can do about it. Heck, maybe we'll watch some baseball and air differing but polite political views. I'll insult Obama, they'll insult Bush, and at the end of the evening everyone makes sure people are still able to drive home safely. The collective moderateness is going to blow your little pinheads clear off. I do draw the line with one thing, though: no veggie burger shall ever touch my grill. That's just common sense.

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

59 Jetpilot1101  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:50:34pm

re: #54 Honorary Yooper

Which is why we need to sound the alarm now. If we do not sound the alarm now, we will pay for it later. We cannot just let them run roughshod all over us, our freedom, and the lives and freedom of others.

Excellent point, I couldn't agree with you more!

60 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:50:40pm

Charles, not that you need it around here, but YOU'VE BEEN VINDICATED!

61 ladycatnip  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:51:12pm

#21 lawhawk

Robert Spencer and all those who continue to fawn over his position on the matter, you must account for yourself as to why you're cozying up with a bunch of illiberal and racists. You can and should be doing so much more (and better). There are alternatives to dealing with the devil in VB, and yet this is your choice?

As Bawer says, something is seriously wrong.

Absolutely. We've seen all too well the crazed mindset of the ultra-left, and there's nothing stopping the right from going in the same direction. If in opposing your enemy, you hate him, then you become like him.

62 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:51:32pm

re: #55 Sharmuta

I didn't leave the "counter-jihad". It left me.

Agreed. It left me when it gave up the ideals of freedom and liberty.

63 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:52:29pm

re: #62 Honorary Yooper

Agreed. It left me when it gave up the ideals of freedom and liberty.

And became a vehicle for bigots.

64 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:53:17pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

The tolerant, generous, open-minded left is anything but. It's amazing that they can look themselves in the mirror

65 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:53:24pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

* * * *
Zombie, you are a treasure and brave being. George Orwell and you would have gotten along swell.

66 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:53:45pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

... with the guys from work, a buddy from college, and the nice lesbian couple from across the street.... That's just common sense.

My wife, bless her, used to ask why I went out of my way to know all our neighbors. And some of them are neigh-bours, too! I told her in the past that it was a survival tactic. If you can identify your neighbors from the ravening hoard, then you stand a better chance of surviving whatever comes. Also, there's usually someone's shoulder to cry or curse on.

Anyway, my lovely wife noticed a moving truck at a neighbor's house. She wondered about it and called the police. Turns out that she did the neighbors a favor. They didn't have to replace their possessions. And the freelance socialists who were attempting to remove said chattels, instead went for an extended stay in a detention facility.

There is something to be said for block parties!

67 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:54:10pm

re: #57 albusteve

incomprehensible...like putting a Chery Bomb muffler and mags on grandmas 4 door Catalina

Better to put those things on Grandma.....
:)

68 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:56:19pm

The key to this is Belien's, and the Eurofascists', associated crusade against "secular humanism." We have heard this kind of rhetoric before, in a place far different from Brussels and from people who have probably never heard of VB but who are nevertheless its allies and soul-mates. In terms of overall global cultural trends, these crypto-fascists forces are of a piece with the Young Earth Creationists on the Texas school board and the antiscience movement in general. It is about rolling back the Enlightenment and all the gains of the last 2 centuries, and is therefore profoundly inimical to American principle.

The picture is beginning to come together.

69 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:57:27pm
never mind that in 2006 Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a far more well informed student of Benelux politics than any of VB’s eager new boosters, called VB “a racist, anti-Semitic, extremist party that is unkind to women”

Sorta sounds like the folks that VB is fighting against.

70 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:57:38pm

As much as it's frustrating for those of us here at LGF that Mr Bawer didn't name names, I can't say that I blame him completely. This saves him from the screams that he's slandering anyone. They know who they are, and they know what they've done. We pretty much know exactly who he's talking about, but Mr Bawer completely took away their ability to claim he's smearing them simply because he doesn't name anyone. The reactions to this should be priceless.

71 lurking faith  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:58:03pm

I have a lot of respect for Bruce Bawer.

Another honest, decent voice crying in the wilderness

72 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 1:59:49pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

As much as it's frustrating for those of us here at LGF that Mr Bawer didn't name names, I can't say that I blame him completely. This saves him from the screams that he's slandering anyone. They know who they are, and they know what they've done. We pretty much know exactly who he's talking about, but Mr Bawer completely took away their ability to claim he's smearing them simply because he doesn't name anyone. The reactions to this should be priceless.

Good point. If anyone claims he's slandering them, they're basically saying they fit the description.

73 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:00:11pm

Have a good night, honcos.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:00:22pm

re: #49 LGoPs

I've always wondered what people would dress a veggie burger with? Lettuce and tomato and pickles? That would be redundant and even more importantly.....repetitive.../
Seems like the best way to dress a veggie burger is with a nice thick slab of Prime Rib.

There's a place in Berkeley that makes a pretty fierce garden burger with onions and barbecue sauce. There's so much barbecue sauce that you basically can't taste the garden burger.

(I know, I know, but a koshertarian has to eat something when out with friends.)

75 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:01:01pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

I expect a lot of howling and poo-flinging from the howler monkeys. Might have to check on it all after my HOA meeting.

76 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:01:55pm

re: #72 Kosh's Shadow

Good point. If anyone claims he's slandering them, they're basically saying they fit the description.

They will out themselves.

77 wrenchwench  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:02:10pm

re: #68 Shiplord Kirel

Multiple updings, were I able.

78 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:02:30pm

re: #75 Honorary Yooper

I expect a lot of howling and poo-flinging from the howler monkeys. Might have to check on it all after my HOA meeting.

I saw a magnetic sign on the back of a van this morning. It said:

Buying a home?
Just say
HOA
No Way!

79 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:02:46pm

re: #75 Honorary Yooper

I expect a lot of howling and poo-flinging from the howler monkeys. Might have to check on it all after my HOA meeting.

* * * *
Thank you for participating in you Home Owners Association. So many people don't bother to help themselves, and let others volunteer time & talents to keep a COMMUNITY ORGANIZED the self-reliant way!

80 calcajun  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:03:25pm

Here i go again with my "historical perspectives". Many people people wonder why so many seemingly intelligent, rational folks in the west supported Hitler and the Nazi Party. What people lose sight of is that the USSR was viewed as being the more reprehensible of the two. British PM Stanley Baldwin even viewed Germany as being the natural bulwark against the spread of god-less Communism.

This is nothing new for Europeans; theirs is a history of balance and counter-balance. Britain's foreign policy for two centuries has been to align the weaker European powers against the strongest one. The problem now is that no one seems to see how history can repeat itself. Or that they think it won't.

81 Diamond Bullet  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:03:31pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

You're right, that's often a problem. My events may be a special case in that they often resemble, for lack of a better description, a big Italian family style debate. Folks who are mortally offended by comments made about a complete stranger (i.e. Obama) just don't last, so the party makeup becomes self-regulating after a while. But at the same time, if enough people are drinking and laughing, a funny thing happens -- the extreme views on either side slowly gravitate towards the center. I live in a liberal bastion (northern VA) so often an echo chamber effect makes sane democrats turn into shrieking Daily kos loons. The only humane treatment is liquor and teleprompter jokes. Jury's still out on whether making someone eat the worm is a form of torture.

82 eon  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:03:54pm
...while acknowledging that "the party has adjusted its rhetoric and dropped its anti-Semitic stance", told me in an e-mail that "it's very difficult to know if this [adjustment] is genuine or political pragmatism."

My response to VB's supposed "moderation"?

Big whooping deal.

Even their idol, Hitler (not the smartest guy ever to run a country) had sense enough to "moderate" his rhetoric and "work within the system"- after the Beer Hall Putsch of 8 Nov 1923 failed and he got thrown in the slammer for his trouble.

His "moderation" lasted exactly as long as it took for his party to win enough seats in the legislature to make him Reichschancellor. After that, and the Enabling Act, everyone found out the hard way that that particular leopard hadn't changed its spots.

And everyone who thought he was "controllable" were laughing out of the other sides of their mouths. Very briefly.

It seems reasonable to me to assume that VB isn't noticeably stupider than their role model. What amazes me is the number of people (Spencer, Pammy, etc.) who don't seem able to figure this out.

cheers

eon

83 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:03:54pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

bah, you just need to party South of Mission st. a bit more often.

84 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:03:58pm

re: #35 Diamond Bullet

I do vegie burgers for my daughters. We're an inclusive moderate family too.

85 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:04:24pm

re: #68 Shiplord Kirel

The key to this is Belien's, and the Eurofascists', associated crusade against "secular humanism." We have heard this kind of rhetoric before, in a place far different from Brussels and from people who have probably never heard of VB but who are nevertheless its allies and soul-mates. In terms of overall global cultural trends, these crypto-fascists forces are of a piece with the Young Earth Creationists on the Texas school board and the antiscience movement in general. It is about rolling back the Enlightenment and all the gains of the last 2 centuries, and is therefore profoundly inimical to American principle.

The picture is beginning to come together.

To me, their worldview is crazytown. I fight Islamism to defend secular humanism from theocratic encroachment.

I acknowledge the Judeo-Christian influence/component on our civilization without using that acknowledgement as a rationale for taking us back to 17th century Massachussetts.

While I (famously) decry public extreme "libertinism," I defend with my last breath the right to private "libertinism," or asceticism or anything else.

Using the anti-Islam movement to promote right-wing/religious anti-sexual-freedom is another incomprehensible triangulation, as far as I can see.

86 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:04:43pm

re: #78 Ward Cleaver

I saw a magnetic sign on the back of a van this morning. It said:

Buying a home?
Just say
HOA
No Way!

Heh. We need one since we have a bunch of owner-occupied condo units (albiet each with its own attached garage and private entry). We don't really go ape shit over a lot. As long as you pay your fees (under $100/month) and keep your unit in decent shape (decks, patios), we could care less.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:04:50pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

Zomb, seriously. You need to get some new friends.

88 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:04:55pm

Just remember:

Bostom obfuscates.

Bawer elucidates.

89 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:06:02pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

As much as it's frustrating for those of us here at LGF that Mr Bawer didn't name names, I can't say that I blame him completely. This saves him from the screams that he's slandering anyone. They know who they are, and they know what they've done. We pretty much know exactly who he's talking about, but Mr Bawer completely took away their ability to claim he's smearing them simply because he doesn't name anyone. The reactions to this should be priceless.

Sometimes it's more effective not to name, because those who you could name know it, and those you haven't wonder if you aren't talking about them. I'm usually generic for that reason.

90 KansasMom  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:06:33pm

Where is Ayaan Hirsi Ali nowadays? I haven't heard anything about her in a long time. Its nice to see her quoted in this article, but its from 2006.

91 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:07:46pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

"It's the hit dog as hollers the loudest" as they used to say down South.

92 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:08:20pm

re: #86 Honorary Yooper

Heh. We need one since we have a bunch of owner-occupied condo units (albiet each with its own attached garage and private entry). We don't really go ape shit over a lot. As long as you pay your fees (under $100/month) and keep your unit in decent shape (decks, patios), we could care less.

Some of the ones here have gone insane, like the one that told a couple they couldn't have a 1-ton pickup (it was brand new, shiny, and with plenty of bling), even though they kept it in the garage.

Hummer H2 in the driveway? No problem.
Ford Super Duty F-350 in the garage? No way.

93 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:08:47pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Zomb, seriously. You need to get some new friends.

It's not just my friends -- it's my "professional work environment." And my family. Neither of which I can choose or change.

94 kansas  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:08:49pm

While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within and Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom

Those seem to be two very pertinent topics. Are those accurate claims?

95 jill e  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:08:50pm

I happen to think that the singular evil of our time is prejudice. It is from this evil that all other evils grow and multiply. In almost everything I've written there is a thread of this: a man's seemingly palpable need to dislike someone other than himself. —ROD SERLING, Los Angeles Times, 1967


The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.
—ALBERT CAMUS, The Plague

Evil is unspectacular and always human
And shares our bed and eats at our own table.
— W.H. AUDEN, Herman Melville

96 wrenchwench  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:09:07pm

re: #90 KansasMom

Where is Ayaan Hirsi Ali nowadays? I haven't heard anything about her in a long time. Its nice to see her quoted in this article, but its from 2006.

Bruce has heard from her,

and earlier today, while acknowledging that “the party has adjusted its rhetoric and seems to have dropped its anti-Semitic stance,” told me in an e-mail that “it’s very difficult to know whether this [adjustment] is genuine or political pragmatism.”
97 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:10:27pm

re: #93 zombie

It's not just my friends -- it's my "professional work environment." And my family. Neither of which I can choose or change.

Are they wearing olive drab yet, and hats with a red star?

98 calcajun  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:10:42pm

re: #95 jill e

Very good. Hitler was a man, not a demon. The more people make him to be one of Satan's imps, and not a human being, the more likely it is that another one will rise.

99 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:10:48pm

re: #97 Ward Cleaver

Are they wearing olive drab yet, and hats with a red star?

Or farting into wine glasses?

100 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:10:50pm

Pam was on Hannity recently.

101 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:10:58pm

re: #85 zombie

To me, their worldview is crazytown. I fight Islamism to defend secular humanism from theocratic encroachment.

I acknowledge the Judeo-Christian influence/component on our civilization without using that acknowledgement as a rationale for taking us back to 17th century Massachussetts.

While I (famously) decry public extreme "libertinism," I defend with my last breath the right to private "libertinism," or asceticism or anything else.

Using the anti-Islam movement to promote right-wing/religious anti-sexual-freedom is another incomprehensible triangulation, as far as I can see.

It is a mirror-image of the insane Red/Brown alliance that supports the Islamofascists. VB, BNP and the rest of the rogues have this position only because opposition to Islam was an important cornerstone of European culture and politics before the Enlightenment. I think this is going to end very badly. A basic culture that was 10,000 years in the making does not change overnight. The crusader's mailed fist still lurks beneath the velvet glove of multiculturalism.

102 MarshallOnellion  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:11:36pm

I'm just guessing-- I have no evidence-- but I wonder if some anti-jihadist bloggers have been paid off by this political group in Belgium. Absent dementia or some indication of sudden stupidity, this is my best guess on why some people are ignoring the whiff of fascisti that you smell from that party.

103 calcajun  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:11:36pm

re: #97 Ward Cleaver

Are they wearing olive drab yet, and hats with a red star?

The Red Book--don't forget the book.

104 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:11:48pm

re: #88 Cato the Elder

Just remember:

Bostom obfuscates.

Bawer elucidates.

Excellent usage of the word "elucidate". That'll drive the stalkers mad looking it up.

105 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:12:28pm
In fact, for reasons unknown to me, this regional party in one of Europe’s smallest countries appears to have become, for a number of anti-jihadist writers on both sides of the Atlantic, nothing short of a litmus test: in their eyes, it seems, if you’re not willing to genuflect to VB, you’re not a real anti-jihadist.

[snip]

others, who once addressed me with civility and respect as a fellow independent writer, have taken a harsh and hectoring, and in two or three cases even a condescending and bullying tone with me, as if they’re the bosses of some political machine and I’m an irksome underling who’s deviating from the party line.

Which is ironic, because these are the people that say it's Charles who has the ideological purity test. Bunch of damned hypocrites.

106 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:12:52pm

re: #100 Kenneth

Pam was on Hannity recently.

I saw the aftermath. She was crowing about it.

107 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:13:46pm

re: #104 Honorary Yooper

Excellent usage of the word "elucidate". That'll drive the stalkers mad looking it up.

I can just hear it "MOM? . . .Mom? . . .whats this word? Its pronounced EE-loo-kih-date . . . yes I am reading it correctly . . ."

108 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:14:38pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

Instead of Tea Parties, perhaps GOP Tailgate Parties?

109 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:15:10pm
Never mind that I’ve defended Wilders frequently and that Wilders has blurbed my new book, Surrender

Geert gets a pass?

110 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:15:36pm

OT, but this is supposed to be Obama's mideast peace plan
It is apparently based on the Saudi "peace" plan. The biggest change is that the "refugees" would go either to the Palestinian state, or the Arab countries will accept them as citizens. (To be rejected by the Arabs in 3, 2, 1). And Jerusalem would become an "international" city under UN control (like I'd trust them)

President Obama’s major proposed alteration in the Saudi peace plan is for Arab countries to grant citizenship to approximately five million Arabs who are descendants of former Israelis while allowing them the right to move to a new Palestinian Authority country.

The Saudi plan calls for them to be allowed to immigrate to Israel, a suggestion that virtually every Israeli leader categorically rejects. President Obama also reportedly told the king that he wants the United Nations flag raised over holy sites in eastern Jerusalem, where the PA would have total sovereignty under the Saudi plan.

Al Quds did not specify any other “concessions” to Israel but said that Arab countries should consider “other changes,” none of which were specified.

The president’s master plan calls for Arab countries to set a timetable for raising the Israeli flag in their capitals, a sign of recognition of the Jewish State. Simultaneously, the PA flag would be raised in Jerusalem neighborhoods, a move that would virtually make the Fatah-led government the de facto government in a significant portion of the Jewish capital.

111 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:16:12pm

re: #109 Ben Hur

Never mind that I’ve defended Wilders frequently and that Wilders has blurbed my new book, Surrender


Geert gets a pass?

That's the part I also didn't quite get.

112 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:16:42pm

"I see Democrat Presidents"

(channeling that kid from Sixth Sense)

113 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:16:46pm

re: #105 Sharmuta

Don't look now, but the stalkers are already taking aim at Bawer.

114 KansasMom  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:16:55pm

re: #109 Ben Hur

Geert gets a pass?

Raised my eyebrow too.

115 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:17:13pm
million Arabs who are descendants of former Israelis

Uhh....What?

Jerusalem would become an "international" city under UN control

Never going to happen.

116 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:17:23pm

re: #101 Shiplord Kirel

I said the same thing twelve years ago on a Lefty board and was told I didn't know what I was talking about.

MERCYFUL
FATE,
R

117 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:17:27pm

re: #110 Kosh's Shadow

OT, but this is supposed to be Obama's mideast peace plan
It is apparently based on the Saudi "peace" plan. The biggest change is that the "refugees" would go either to the Palestinian state, or the Arab countries will accept them as citizens. (To be rejected by the Arabs in 3, 2, 1). And Jerusalem would become an "international" city under UN control (like I'd trust them)

Jews were supposed to be allowed to pray at their holy sites from 1948-1967. We all know how that turned out. Also under the "Oslo" plan they were supposed to be allowed access to Yosef's tomb. We also know how that turned out.

118 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:17:33pm

re: #113 Honorary Yooper

Don't look now, but the stalkers are already taking aim at Bawer.

Naturally.

119 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:17:43pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.


Liberals are like the Borg. Except the Borg have a sense of humor.
/

120 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:18:03pm

Trickle-Down Corruption

Barack Obama, who vowed he’d provide a transparent administration staffed with disinterested public servants with the self-restraint of Roman castrati, appointed an admitted tax cheat to run the Treasury Department — and he’s hardly the only one in the administration.
121 jill e  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:18:03pm

re: #98 calcajun

And it can happen to any of us. Charles has shown unusual courage in not joining the rest. We're all being tested...every day...

122 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:18:03pm

Cross-posted from an earlier thread, an excerpt from Bruce's earlier article published in City Journal, to which I subscribe:

"The past few decades in Europe have made three things crystal-clear. First, social-democratic welfare systems work best, to the extent they do work, in ethnically and culturally homogeneous (and preferably small) nations whose citizens, viewing one another as members of an extended family, are loath to exploit government provisions for the needy. Second, the best way to destroy such welfare systems is to take in large numbers of immigrants from poor, oppressive and corruption-ridden societies, whose rule of the road is to grab everything you can get your hands on. And third, the system will be wiped out even faster if many of those immigrants are fundamentalist Muslims who view bankrupting the West as a contribution to jihad. Add to all this the growing power of an unelected European Union bureaucracy that has encouraged Muslim immigration and taken steps to punish criticism of it—criminalizing "incitement of racism, xenophobia or hatred against a racial, ethnic or religious group" in 2007, for example—and you can start to understand why Western Europeans who prize their freedoms are resisting the so-called leadership of their see-no-evil elites.

The November 2001 general election in Denmark is the most decisive—and successful—rejection so far of a Western European left-wing establishment. Alarmed by a widely publicized study showing that their country would have a Muslim majority within 60 years if immigration rates didn't change, Danish voters sent the Social Democrats down to defeat for the first time since 1924. The new Liberal-Conservative governing coalition, which voters returned to power in 2005, has introduced the Continent's most sweeping immigration and integration reforms, including rules designed to thwart the near-universal practice in Europe's Muslim communities of marrying one's children off to cousins abroad so that they, too, may immigrate to the West. As a result, the flow of new Muslim arrivals has decreased significantly, allowing the government to focus resources on the immense challenge of trying to integrate Muslims already living in Denmark. Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen also defended free speech strongly during the 2006 Muhammad cartoon crisis, standing firm while Muslims around the world raged against Denmark and Western leaders begged him to back down."

123 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:18:36pm
In fact, for reasons unknown to me, this regional party in one of Europe’s smallest countries appears to have become, for a number of anti-jihadist writers on both sides of the Atlantic, nothing short of a litmus test: in their eyes, it seems, if you’re not willing to genuflect to VB, you’re not a real anti-jihadist.

Add to that creationism, Glen Beck, Ron Paul, and no doubt soon enought Alex Jones. If you don't love these crazies and give their bullshit a full free pass, you're the enemy of the 'anti-jihadists'. They've redefined anti-jihad in such a way that only far right whackos would want to be part of it.

Blisteringly great article.

124 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:19:06pm

re: #112 Racer X

"I see Democrat Presidents"

(channeling that kid from Sixth Sense)

"I see stupid people all around me. I live in a blue state"
(channelling the same kid)

125 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:19:27pm

re: #95 jill e

I happen to think that the singular evil of our time is prejudice. It is from this evil that all other evils grow and multiply. In almost everything I've written there is a thread of this: a man's seemingly palpable need to dislike someone other than himself. —ROD SERLING, Los Angeles Times, 1967

The problem is, "prejudice" -- as in, unconsciously pre-judging someone based on their identity or appearance -- is a fundamental component of how huimans function in society. We see a guy in a blue uniform with a badge and a gun and a stern expression -- we pre-judge that he is a cop, and that he exists to enforce the law. We jump to conclusions, and treat him a certain way, based on our "prejudice" about his appearance. We see a woman in a glittery mini-skirt smoking a cigarette and walking up to cars in a seedy neighborhood -- our prejudice tells us she is a prostitute. And we interact with her accordingly.

This same principle applies to nearly every human interaction we have, even though we don't like to acknowledge it.

The reason this behavior has become almost genetically encoded in humans is that it works -- 95% of the time, we're right. People usually are who they seem to be. If pre-judging people was a non-useful method of social behavior, it would have died out long ago.

We don't want to get rid of prejudice, and we couldn't even if we wanted to. Functioning in a modern society would be extremely difficult without it.

The goal is not to get rid of prejudice entirely as a concept -- which would be impossible anyway -- but to discourage inaccurate and wrongheaded prejudices.

126 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:20:29pm

re: #122 quickjustice

Didn't Rasmussen recently apologize or am I thinking of someone else?

127 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:21:35pm

re: #126 Creeping Eruption

Didn't Rasmussen recently apologize or am I thinking of someone else?

Sort of.

128 n2stox  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:21:51pm

This is exactly the problem I thought we'd see begin to manifest itself.

It is the swinging of the pendulum. When I was in Austria a few years back, I sensed it then. Then, last year, not one but two far right, anti-immigration parties made big gains winning a combined 29%. The conservative Austrian People's Party and the Social Democrats, who form the governing coalition, had their worst showings since World War II.

Italy, too, is seeing a resurgence of the far right.

Far left liberalism has run amok, so much so that moderate voices feel barely have a chance. Those on the fringe, who would normally consider themselves moderately right, get a sense they are overwhelmed, which could easily lead to moving further and further right, becoming more and more hard-lines.

It wasn't Naziism's great ideas that led to their ascendancy, but people's fear of communism, Jews (or, more accurately, the anti-Jew propaganda), and any other Bogeyman the likes of Goebbles could think up. I think we could be seeing the same thing today, except that the bogeyman that is Islamism is not a fabrication. When it pushes, we must push back against it.

So, back to my point originally: the pendulum has been pushed so far left, many feel the only way they can have "balance" is by not being moderate but being more hard-core.

What do we get? Ron Paul and tea parties (which, by the way, I think were just fine. The tea parties, not Ron Paul)

If we continue to see liberalism run off the chain, and it appears we will at least for the next year, the far right will continue to build.

Not to kiss any ass, but sites like LGF give me hope that moderates and true conservatives will continue to have a voice and not have to resort to being Ron Paul kooks.

129 irish rose  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:21:55pm

Kudos to Mr. Bawer for putting his own reputation on the line to speak the truth.

130 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:22:14pm

re: #115 Ben Hur

Never going to happen.

I just cut and paste. The "descendants of former Israelis" is supposed to refer to the Arab refugees, I'm sure.

And I agree internationalization of Jerusalem is a very bad idea.

But the plan sounds too reasonable to people who aren't familiar with the actual history, and so there will be a lot of pressure on Israel to accept it.

131 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:22:47pm
132 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:23:03pm

re: #129 irish rose

Kudos to Mr. Bawer for putting his own reputation on the line to speak the truth.

How is his reputation on the line?

133 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:23:21pm

I could self-describe myself as a moderate, but the True Left in this country has a vested interest in making me "far-right" by some/any/their definition.

134 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:23:58pm

re: #103 calcajun

The Red Book--don't forget the book.

Oh, you mean the blue book.

/otoh, look at what 13% of them also buy

135 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:24:03pm

Who knew that Belgium would be so......important

136 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:24:07pm

re: #125 zombie

The problem is, "prejudice" -- as in, unconsciously pre-judging someone based on their identity or appearance -- is a fundamental component of how huimans function in society. We see a guy in a blue uniform with a badge and a gun and a stern expression -- we pre-judge that he is a cop, and that he exists to enforce the law. We jump to conclusions, and treat him a certain way, based on our "prejudice" about his appearance. We see a woman in a glittery mini-skirt smoking a cigarette and walking up to cars in a seedy neighborhood -- our prejudice tells us she is a prostitute. And we interact with her accordingly.

This same principle applies to nearly every human interaction we have, even though we don't like to acknowledge it.

The reason this behavior has become almost genetically encoded in humans is that it works -- 95% of the time, we're right. People usually are who they seem to be. If pre-judging people was a non-useful method of social behavior, it would have died out long ago.

We don't want to get rid of prejudice, and we couldn't even if we wanted to. Functioning in a modern society would be extremely difficult without it.

The goal is not to get rid of prejudice entirely as a concept -- which would be impossible anyway -- but to discourage inaccurate and wrongheaded prejudices.

Discriminate is another of those words that describes the same thing but has become a pejorative, incorrectly so, in my opinion. I discriminate every day. It's how I sort the enormous amount of information that I'm bombarded with on a daily basis. My discrimination is based on my experience. Blind, unthinking discrimination is wrong. Thoughtful, discerning discrimination is a necessary tool for survival.

137 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:24:08pm

re: #117 Alouette

Jews were supposed to be allowed to pray at their holy sites from 1948-1967. We all know how that turned out. Also under the "Oslo" plan they were supposed to be allowed access to Yosef's tomb. We also know how that turned out.

That's why I don't think it is a good idea. Of course, they'll say it is the UN in charge, not the Arabs, but we know who really will be in charge.
Jewish sites will be desecrated, with at most, a strongly worded letter in protest, and probably after 5 years, only Muslims will be going there.

138 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:24:10pm

re: #80 calcajun

Before 1938, fascism was marketed as the "middle way" between capitalism and communism. Charles Lindberg, his wife Anne Morrow Lindberg (author of "The Wave of the Future", a book which promoted fascism), and many other Americans, were ardent admirers of Mussolini and Hitler. The FDR Administration borrowed heavily from Mussolini's economic and industrial policies. Obama is doing the same.

139 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:24:35pm

re: #134 Ward Cleaver

Oh, you mean the blue book.

/otoh, look at what 13% of them also buy

I was about to write "LOL" but that really isn't funny.

140 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:24:51pm

re: #111 callahan23

That's the part I also didn't quite get.

Same here. Made me go, "huh".

141 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:25:58pm

re: #135 Ben Hur

Who knew that Belgium would be so......important

Maybe the RoP hates chocolate? As for Brussels sprouts, I could support a jihad on those.

142 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:26:11pm
143 eon  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:26:24pm

re: #110 Kosh's Shadow

OT, but this is supposed to be Obama's mideast peace plan
It is apparently based on the Saudi "peace" plan. The biggest change is that the "refugees" would go either to the Palestinian state, or the Arab countries will accept them as citizens. (To be rejected by the Arabs in 3, 2, 1). And Jerusalem would become an "international" city under UN control (like I'd trust them)

I notice in the link that Rahm Emanuel is anxious for another photo-op like the one he arranged for Clinton with Arafat at Oslo. You know, the one just before Arafat launched the Second Intifada?

As for the "raising the UN flag over all of Jerusalem", The One's minions ripped that off from Tom Clancy's The Sum of All Fears- the book, not the f**ed-up movie version. As I recall, in the book it was yet another reason the Islamist radicals and their leftover EuroMarxist friends used to "justify" their act of nuclear terrorism.

As for "raising the Israeli flag over Arab capitals"- what are they smoking at State these days?

I find myself wondering if Einstein's definition of insanity has become the preferred operating mode of our "leaders".

/He defined it as "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time".

cheers

eon

144 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:26:26pm

re: #139 Creeping Eruption

I was about to write "LOL" but that really isn't funny.

Scary, actually.

145 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:26:32pm

re: #134 Ward Cleaver

Oh, you mean the blue book.

/otoh, look at what 13% of them also buy

Hah. A friend has a Cultural Revolution-vintage Little Red Book he bought at what could only be described as a "Chinese Communism Souvenir Shop" in Beijing.

146 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:26:40pm

Our yokel newspaper runs a weekly feature on outstanding high school students. Among other things, the youngsters answer questions about their interests and ideas.
A couple of years ago, one young lady, a typically bubbly and attractive honor student, cheerleader, etc. answered "secular humanism" when asked what she considered to be the most serious problem confronting young people.

147 Creeping Eruption  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:26:46pm

re: #137 Kosh's Shadow

That's why I don't think it is a good idea. Of course, they'll say it is the UN in charge, not the Arabs, but we know who really will be in charge.
Jewish sites will be desecrated, with at most, a strongly worded letter in protest, and probably after 5 years, only Muslims will be going there.

Exactly. So how is all of this going to stop? Border police kill attacker at Ma'arat ha Machpela

148 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:26:56pm

re: #135 Ben Hur

Who knew that Belgium would be so......important

The Germans did, but the French caught on eventually.

/

149 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:27:04pm

re: #141 Ward Cleaver

Maybe the RoP hates chocolate? As for Brussels sprouts, I could support a jihad on those.

Brussels sprouts, great with Miracle Whip or wine vinegar.

150 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:27:23pm
151 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:27:52pm

re: #135 Ben Hur

Who knew that Belgium would be so......important

It's been important many times in recent European history. It was important in bringing Britain to the war in WWI. It was important as the place the Nazis invaded France from in WWII. It was also important as their last stand in the Battle of the Bulge. It was important as our way into Germany in WWII. It is important to the EU and to the International Court of Justice. Little Belgium has been very important in European history.

152 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:28:23pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

Hah. A friend has a Cultural Revolution-vintage Little Red Book he bought at what could only be described as a "Chinese Communism Souvenir Shop" in Beijing.

I wonder if they sell dunce caps, from the Cultural Revolution?

153 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:28:38pm

I imagine that Spencer's face must be a deeper shade of purple right now. (Any LGF lyricists want to have a go at that one, feel free;-) )

154 n2stox  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:29:07pm

re: #151 Honorary Yooper

And, they do have, in my opinion, many of the best beers.

155 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:29:27pm

re: #152 Ward Cleaver

I wonder if they sell dunce caps, from the Cultural Revolution?

If I ever get there, I will need a gross of Mao's Self-Criticism Notebooks.

/

156 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:30:09pm

re: #153 Jimmah

I imagine that Spencer's face must be a deeper shade of purple right now. (Any LGF lyricists want to have a go at that one, feel free;-) )

Someone correct me on this, but isn't Bawer someone that Spencer has lauded for his views in the past?

157 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:30:21pm

re: #142 buzzsawmonkey

I have found, time and again, that the best tactic when being accused of "prejudice" by someone who disagrees with my position--"prejudice," don't you know, is supposed to shut you up, make you apologetic, and knuckle under to someone who can't defend their position--is to say, as blandly and confidently as possible, "Just because I'm prejudiced doesn't mean I'm wrong."

Invariably, the failure to conform to the knuckle-under scenario, the refusal to go on the defensive to deny the accusation, throws the other person totally off balance.

Fun, fun, fun.

My response is a bit more blunt. I tell them I am prejudiced against idiots, regardless of color or creed or sexual preference.

158 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:30:34pm

I'd like to create a new word to describe Obama's plan for addressing the Israeli/arab situation.

"Nai-evil"

A combination of naive and evil ...

159 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:30:39pm

re: #152 Ward Cleaver

I wonder if they sell dunce caps, from the Cultural Revolution?

You're giving me an opportunity to link to a forgotten-but-interesting zombietime post:

Red-Color News Soldier

...which has a photo of one of those "dunce caps," or "shame-hat" as they were called.

160 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:30:53pm

re: #149 Walter L. Newton

Brussels sprouts, great with Miracle Whip or wine vinegar.

I love those little green gas bombs.

161 Soona'  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:30:55pm

re: #119 LGoPs

Liberals are like the Borg. Except the Borg have a sense of humor.
/

That happened to me at work, just today. Scary. Most of the people I know here are not liberals but there's an insidious reluctance to say anything bad against "dear leader".

162 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:30:57pm

re: #147 Creeping Eruption

Exactly. So how is all of this going to stop? Border police kill attacker at Ma'arat ha Machpela

Thanks goodness for the barrier, and the IDF.

163 jill e  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:07pm

re: #142 buzzsawmonkey

I have found, time and again, that the best tactic when being accused of "prejudice" by someone who disagrees with my position--"prejudice," don't you know, is supposed to shut you up, make you apologetic, and knuckle under to someone who can't defend their position--is to say, as blandly and confidently as possible, "Just because I'm prejudiced doesn't mean I'm wrong."

Invariably, the failure to conform to the knuckle-under scenario, the refusal to go on the defensive to deny the accusation, throws the other person totally off balance.

Fun, fun, fun.

But true prejudice is based on WRONG or UNJUST beliefs that go beyond mere verbalization:

Prejudice
1: injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights ; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims2 a (1): preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b: an instance of such judgment or opinion c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

164 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:11pm

SCARY PEOPLE OVER THERE....
....And I was going to go to the Netherlands .......
Well ...Isle of Texel anyway!
Screw it! I'll go anyway!
Shit! Still have to land in Amsterdam......

165 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:18pm

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Someone correct me on this, but isn't Bawer someone that Spencer has lauded for his views in the past?

I do believe you are right. Watch for Spencer to post an article about how Bawer, like Charles, is now "betraying" the anti-jihad and him.
It'll be pathetic.

166 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:23pm

re: #124 LGoPs

"I see stupid people all around me. I live in a blue state"
(channelling the same kid)

I see dumb people.

Dummies to right of them,
Dummies to left of them,
Dummies in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Shriek'd at with snot and spell,
Boldly they wrote and well,
Into the jaws of Dumbth,
Into the mouth of Hell
Wrote the six hundred.

167 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:32pm

re: #158 _RememberTonyC

I'd like to create a new word to describe Obama's plan for addressing the Israeli/arab situation.

"Nai-evil"

A combination of naive and evil ...

How about eliding that to

naivil

168 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:39pm

re: #159 zombie

You're giving me an opportunity to link to a forgotten-but-interesting zombietime post:

Red-Color News Soldier

...which has a photo of one of those "dunce caps," or "shame-hat" as they were called.

I remember it from The Last Emperor.

169 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:50pm

City Journal, where Bruce's article was published, is a publication of the Manhattan Institute, which I support. It's right-wing (conservative and libertarian) think tank. Here's their website: http:www.manhattan-institute.org

170 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:31:51pm

re: #153 Jimmah

I imagine that Spencer's face must be a deeper shade of purple right now. (Any LGF lyricists want to have a go at that one, feel free;-) )

I would imagine a shade of Black, White, Red, Brown.

171 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:32:00pm

re: #128 n2stox

The fundamental problem in europe is their failure to appreciate the rule of law. Instead of upholding their laws, they look to undermine them by being fair, or by applying equality as a result and not as a mechanism. So instead of arresting rioting youts, they create no-go zones so as to keep that segment of the population happy. It is in equal application of the law where europe should be looking, but instead they have two groups, the socialists and the fascists, fighting it out as to how they should continue to undermine their laws and rights.

172 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:32:08pm

re: #167 zombie

How about eliding that to

naivil

Naivil gazing?

173 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:32:26pm

re: #134 Ward Cleaver

Oh, you mean the blue book.

/otoh, look at what 13% of them also buy

What Do Customers Ultimately Buy After Viewing This Item? (Pocket Obama (Paperback))
13% buy - Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-Tung
7% buy - Rules for Radicals

So in line with party politics. HA!

174 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:32:37pm
175 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:32:40pm

re: #160 OldLineTexan

I love those little green gas bombs.

sauted in Beef-O-Roni....mmmmm, a little Cheez Whiz on top

176 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:32:54pm

re: #148 OldLineTexan

The Germans did, but the French caught on eventually.

/

It took the French two times to figure that out. One would've thought the first time would've been enough.

177 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:33:01pm

re: #90 KansasMom

Where is Ayaan Hirsi Ali nowadays? I haven't heard anything about her in a long time. Its nice to see her quoted in this article, but its from 2006.

[Link: www.aei.org...]

Here's a current article.

178 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:33:02pm

re: #169 quickjustice

PIMP

Manhattan Institute:

Lemme try that link again: [Link: www.manhattan-institute.org...]

179 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:33:17pm

re: #128 n2stox

It wasn't Naziism's great ideas that led to their ascendancy, but people's fear of communism, Jews (or, more accurately, the anti-Jew propaganda), and any other Bogeyman the likes of Goebbles could think up. .

The demographics of who joined the Nazi Party after 1933 is very revealing. Lapsed Protestants were more likely to join than practicing Catholics. University students & graduates joined in droves. Professionals such as journalists, lawyers, doctors, accountants and artists joined. Shop keepers more than farmers or factory workers. The Nazi propaganda was tailored to present the Nazis as modern, progressive & scientific. The anti-Jewish hatred was focused on race, not religion, and included many pseudo-scientific arguments about eugenics.

180 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:33:35pm

re: #161 Soona'

That happened to me at work, just today. Scary. Most of the people I know here are not liberals but there's an insidious reluctance to say anything bad against "dear leader".

I hear you. There is a chill sweeping across the land. We are in deep trouble.

181 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:33:50pm

re: #158 _RememberTonyC

I'd like to create a new word to describe Obama's plan for addressing the Israeli/arab situation.

"Nai-evil"

A combination of naive and evil ...

I prefer "willfully ignorant".

182 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:34:04pm

re: #173 callahan23

What Do Customers Ultimately Buy After Viewing This Item? (Pocket Obama (Paperback))
13% buy - Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-Tung
7% buy - Rules for Radicals

So in line with party politics. HA!

Pretty wild, huh? Also the 4% (sane people) who bought this, by Bernie Goldberg.

183 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:34:15pm

re: #171 Sharmuta

The fundamental problem in europe is their failure to appreciate the rule of law. Instead of upholding their laws, they look to undermine them by being fair, or by applying equality as a result and not as a mechanism. So instead of arresting rioting youts, they create no-go zones so as to keep that segment of the population happy. It is in equal application of the law where europe should be looking, but instead they have two groups, the socialists and the fascists, fighting it out as to how they should continue to undermine their laws and rights.

Thanks, I as a European couldn't have put it in finer words.

184 Soona'  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:34:28pm

re: #131 buzzsawmonkey

"Arab countries to grant citizenship to approximately five million Arabs who are descendants of former Israelis"

What the hell? "Former Israelis?" Are they referring to the "Palestinians," who have never been Israelis?

Think of it this way. In order for SA to make that offer, they had to admit that Israel exists.

185 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:34:36pm

re: #147 Creeping Eruption

Exactly. So how is all of this going to stop? Border police kill attacker at Ma'arat ha Machpela


It won't.

But our Brave New Post-Modernist World, it will suddenly and seamlessly no longer be considered genocide.

.
.
..
.
.
.
.for about 5 minutes.

186 calcajun  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:35:25pm

re: #134 Ward Cleaver

I thought of freaking out some folks by photographing all the Scouts in our Troop in their Class A uniforms-with caps and neckerchiefs- holding their Scout Handbooks in their left hand and making the Scout salute. It would look a little like a Mao rally.

187 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:35:40pm

Harry's Place appears to be back up, after whatever it was that happened to them, but as yet, no new posts since monday.

You might need to clear your cache first if the site was down last time you visited.

188 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:35:42pm

Has the bigotry dwarf taken note of this yet? (I won't give her the click.)

189 KansasMom  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:35:46pm

re: #177 debutaunt

Thank you!

190 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:36:02pm

re: #166 Cato the Elder

I see dumb people.

Dummies to right of them,
Dummies to left of them,
Dummies in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Shriek'd at with snot and spell,
Boldly they wrote and well,
Into the jaws of Dumbth,
Into the mouth of Hell
Wrote the six hundred.

Heh. That sounds like the words of that famous poet, Mudyard Quisling.
:)

191 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:36:11pm

re: #151 Honorary Yooper

It's been important many times in recent European history. It was important in bringing Britain to the war in WWI. It was important as the place the Nazis invaded France from in WWII. It was also important as their last stand in the Battle of the Bulge. It was important as our way into Germany in WWII. It is important to the EU and to the International Court of Justice. Little Belgium has been very important in European history.

Can't a man make fun of any small country anymore?!?!?!?!?

/

192 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:36:24pm

re: #186 calcajun

I thought of freaking out some folks by photographing all the Scouts in our Troop in their Class A uniforms-with caps and neckerchiefs- holding their Scout Handbooks in their left hand and making the Scout salute. It would look a little like a Mao rally.

Do it!

193 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:36:25pm

re: #181 MandyManners

I prefer "willfully ignorant".

And narcissistic delusions of grandeur.

194 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:36:47pm

re: #188 Cato the Elder

Has the bigotry dwarf taken note of this yet? (I won't give her the click.)

Not as of 4:00pm CDT. However, our stalkers have.

195 JCM  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:36:54pm

re: #159 zombie

You're giving me an opportunity to link to a forgotten-but-interesting zombietime post:

Red-Color News Soldier

...which has a photo of one of those "dunce caps," or "shame-hat" as they were called.

Will this madness ever end?

Not as long as politicians sell statism and gullible buy their wares.

196 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:37:00pm
197 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:37:05pm

re: #168 Ward Cleaver

I remember it from The Last Emperor.

In my top three favs.

Open the dowa!

198 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:37:08pm

re: #182 Ward Cleaver

Pretty wild, huh? Also the 4% (sane people) who bought this, by Bernie Goldberg.

The world has gone insane.

199 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:37:43pm

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Someone correct me on this, but isn't Bawer someone that Spencer has lauded for his views in the past?

Oh yes, very much. Example: "Bruce Bawer, author of the essential While Europe Slept, has written an equally essential piece at City Journal (thanks to all who sent this in), "An Anatomy of Surrender": a comprehensive overview of the ongoing voluntary and self-imposed reduction of the West to dhimmi status."

200 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:38:18pm

re: #176 Honorary Yooper

Three times. You're forgetting 1870.

WHERE'S
MY
RULER?,
R

201 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:38:29pm

re: #197 Ben Hur

In my top three favs.

Open the dowa!

Hubba hubba!

/aren't you a little old to be nursing?

/just open the dowa!

202 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:38:58pm

re: #163 jill e

Out of all that, only

(1): preconceived judgment or opinion

is English. The rest is flummery.

Prejudice keeps one from using a ladder with three legs after a mere look.
Prejudice can also keep one from judging a person on their character.

The "wrong" is associated with the ACTION or THOUGHT; assigning the word an automatic negative value regardless of context cripples the language.

203 calcajun  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:38:59pm

re: #200 Render

Three times. You're forgetting 1870.

WHERE'S
MY
RULER?,
R

Ah, the French. Always ready to fight the last war.

204 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:39:07pm

re: #188 Cato the Elder

bigotry dwarf

Interesting definition. Splitting explains how that happens.

205 aggieann  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:39:17pm

re: #142 buzzsawmonkey

I have found, time and again, that the best tactic when being accused of "prejudice" by someone who disagrees with my position--"prejudice," don't you know, is supposed to shut you up, make you apologetic, and knuckle under to someone who can't defend their position--is to say, as blandly and confidently as possible, "Just because I'm prejudiced doesn't mean I'm wrong."

In addition to prejudice and discriminate, another word that has been coopted by the loony left is privilege. The angriest I got all last year was when an African-American friend in my book club said that something in my life (can't remember what) was a result of my being privileged (ostensibly for being Anglo). I said she was correct--I am privileged to have been born in a country that gave me the opportunity to work since I was 17 so that I could go to college and grad school and get a good job in the field of my choosing. Still makes me mad!

206 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:39:17pm

re: #167 zombie


works for me, Zombie :)

207 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:39:50pm

re: #201 Ward Cleaver

Hubba hubba!

/aren't you a little old to be nursing?

/just open the dowa!

She was my butterfly.....

I wife doesn't like when I refer to her as "numba one wife."

208 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:39:57pm

re: #191 Ben Hur

Can't a man make fun of any small country anymore?!?!?!?!?/

I just posted one of those "5 Things" lists on Facebook.

Five Things I Hate That Everyone Else Seems to Like:

1. Political Correctness
2. PCs
3. Intelligent Design Proponents
4. Rap Music
and
5. Facebook Quizzes and These Pick-5 Things.

Waiting for incoming from the humorless among my friends.

209 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:40:06pm

re: #200 Render

Three times. You're forgetting 1870.

WHERE'S
MY
RULER?,
R

I thought they were a bit more direct in 1870-71, going through Alsace-Lorraine. Hence why the French built up their forces there in 1914 and 1940.

210 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:40:09pm

re: #172 Ward Cleaver

Naivil gazing?


June is gonna slap you

211 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:40:24pm
212 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:40:47pm

re: #183 callahan23

Lack of support for individual rights really distinguishes european political thought from American political thought. You have pockets here and there in europe who get it, as we have pockets here in America of people who don't care about individual rights, but for the most part, these are the fundamental differences in the two schools of thought. The socialists don't support your rights, nor do the fascists. Those who might are shunned because for the most part, it's european society that shuns this notion- perhaps due in part to anti-Americanism, the American school of thought isn't even given enough credit to be considered worthy from which to learn anything.

213 aggieann  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:41:04pm

re: #161 Soona'

That happened to me at work, just today. Scary. Most of the people I know here are not liberals but there's an insidious reluctance to say anything bad against "dear leader".

Same here! I made a joke about Dear Leader's botched Cinco de Mayo remark and said that maybe he was speaking Austrian. Of course, I got chided for saying that Austrian was a language, but when I pointed out that it was actually Dear Leader's gaffe, everyone stopped talking.

214 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:41:14pm

re: #181 MandyManners

I prefer "willfully ignorant".


Or maybe he's just a (Jeremiah) "Wright winger"

215 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:41:15pm

I guess he's being a little diplomatic but I'd love to know exactly who is lecturing him and who privately admits VB is fascist but supports them anyways. I can take some guesses but I'd love to know for sure. I think the culprits will identify themselves soon enough.
I very much appreciate that he takes Belien to task. I don't know if he was the mastermind behind the successful mainstreaming of Eurofacsists into the counter-Jihad movement but he was certainly on the front lines. He has been very successful so far.

216 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:41:47pm

re: #189 KansasMom

Thank you!

It's always a relief to know she's OK.

217 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:42:34pm

Sex, drugs and Islam

Iran is dying. The collapse of Iran's birth rate during the past 20 years is the fastest recorded in any country, ever. Demographers have sought in vain to explain Iran's population implosion through family planning policies, or through social factors such as the rise of female literacy.

But quantifiable factors do not explain the sudden collapse of fertility. It seems that a spiritual decay has overcome Iran, despite best efforts of a totalitarian theocracy. Popular morale has deteriorated much faster than in the "decadent" West against which the Khomeini revolution was directed.
Their efforts to isolate Iran from the cultural degradation of the American "great Satan" have produced social pathologies worse than those in any Western country. With oil at barely one-fifth of its 2008 peak price, they will run out of money some time in late 2009 or early 2010. Game theory would predict that Iran's leaders will gamble on a strategic long shot. That is not a comforting thought for Iran's neighbors.

218 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:42:52pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

I think the one who may have said that to him is Bat Ye'or, but it's only a guess.

219 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:42:54pm

re: #209 Honorary Yooper

I thought they were a bit more direct in 1870-71, going through Alsace-Lorraine. Hence why the French built up their forces there in 1914 and 1940.

The Schlieffen Plan was conceived after the 1870-71 war.

220 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:43:22pm

re: #194 Honorary Yooper

Not as of 4:00pm CDT. However, our stalkers have.

Which ones? (Won't click them either.)

221 AlexM  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:43:36pm

I do wish that Bawer didn't complain about Belien on the basis of his claim to be "fighting for Judeo-Christian morality” in addition to fighting jihadism.

A lot hinges on what is meant by "fighting." I don't mind if somebody fighting jihadism wants to fight for Christian, pagan, or for that matter Islamic morality--so long as the "fighting" taking place is rhetorical and not physical and the goal is not the personal destruction of those who disagree.

As for being contemptuous of the idea that gays deserve any human rights, I've seen that rhetorical sleight of hand too often to just believe it on its face. What is meant by that? I'm pro-gay marriage, but I've seen too much of that kind of characterization of the other side lately. It's pretty routine for gay rights proponents to say that those against gay marriage are in favor of denying basic human rights to gays. While I'd say its true that they're in favor of denying a human right (the right to marry whoever one wishes), it's hyperbole to say that they're in favor of denying "human rights" to gays.

222 researchok  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:43:48pm

Cultures and society are able to function because of prejudice.

We decide, as a group, those values we raise above others- and in a free society, that usually results in an environment that offers safety and equality for all citizens.

That there are those who will use our freedoms in an attempt to foist their prejudices on us is to be expected, as is our duty to repudiate them. It is not uncommon for some to say that our biases exist to protect you (or our religions/culture/ belief system, etc.) from the interloper and expect that excesses will be given a pass. Free societies are measured by how

We have every right to hold all citizens accountable for their actions and to maintain equality- those prejudices are the foundation of our society. We afford no one special status because of their race, religion, color, creed or political ideology.

223 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:44:16pm

re: #194 Honorary Yooper

Speaking of stalkers, I wonder how much money the plainly desperate Spencer has raised from LGF2.

224 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:44:21pm

re: #218 Sharmuta

I would imagine some of that lecturing comes from Spencer too.

225 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:44:34pm

re: #205 aggieann

In addition to prejudice and discriminate, another word that has been coopted by the loony left is privilege. The angriest I got all last year was when an African-American friend in my book club said that something in my life (can't remember what) was a result of my being privileged (ostensibly for being Anglo). I said she was correct--I am privileged to have been born in a country that gave me the opportunity to work since I was 17 so that I could go to college and grad school and get a good job in the field of my choosing. Still makes me mad!

I agree. I am blessed to live in an area that many would consider to be 'privileged'. I say bullshit. My wife and I goddammed worked our asses off to earn where we live. And we're still doing it. Which is why we never show up at 'million man marches'. Although we almost made it to one of the tea parties. That would have been worth going to.

226 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:44:45pm
227 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:45:20pm

re: #224 Killgore Trout

I would imagine some of that lecturing comes from Spencer too.

I think he's the one who's turned on Fortuyn.

228 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:45:24pm

re: #209 Honorary Yooper

Belgium was technically neutral during the Franco-Prussian war, but behind the scenes they were very much on the Prussian side.

Nappie3 had openly threatened to annex Belgium to France just prior to the war. As a result Belgian volunteers flocked to the Prussian army and Prussian supply lines ran unhindered through Belgian territory.

LITTLE
DETAILS,
R

229 Idle Drifter  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:45:26pm

re: #179 Kenneth

The demographics of who joined the Nazi Party after 1933 is very revealing. Lapsed Protestants were more likely to join than practicing Catholics. University students & graduates joined in droves. Professionals such as journalists, lawyers, doctors, accountants and artists joined. Shop keepers more than farmers or factory workers. The Nazi propaganda was tailored to present the Nazis as modern, progressive & scientific. The anti-Jewish hatred was focused on race, not religion, and included many pseudo-scientific arguments about eugenics.

This seems partly to ring true for the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution as well. That certain sections of society seemed all too willing to engage in the violence. All the participants needed was the excuse to shed all restraints of a civil society which was supplied by the propagandists and firebrands. Every aspect was tailored made for the desired effect.

230 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:45:51pm

re: #220 Cato the Elder

Which ones? (Won't click them either.)

re: #223 Cato the Elder

Speaking of stalkers, I wonder how much money the plainly desperate Spencer has raised from LGF2.

Yep, those stalkers. They seem to think Spencer and Geller can do no wrong.

231 Golem Akbar  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:10pm

re: #19 Fat Jolly Penguin

Same here.

[just passing by, been busy with work] me too.

232 jvic  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:13pm

As WWII broke, the Germans rolled over Europe. Some people in the conquered nations resolved to resist.

Some among them did so because Nazism is evil. Some did so to position themselves to replace the Nazis.

233 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:20pm

re: #176 Honorary Yooper

It took the French two times to figure that out. One would've thought the first time would've been enough.

re: #200 Render

Three times. You're forgetting 1870.

WHERE'S
MY
RULER?,
R

Four times. You're forgetting the 4th century AD, when Germanic tribes mass-invaded Gaul, and settled there. The reason no one thinks of this one, is that the invasion was successful and permanent: Most of the modern-day "French" are descendants of these Germanic invaders.

234 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:39pm

re: #193 Kenneth

And narcissistic delusions of grandeur.

Oh, you know it!

235 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:46pm
236 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:46pm

re: #228 Render

Belgium was technically neutral during the Franco-Prussian war, but behind the scenes they were very much on the Prussian side.

Nappie3 had openly threatened to annex Belgium to France just prior to the war. As a result Belgian volunteers flocked to the Prussian army and Prussian supply lines ran unhindered through Belgian territory.

LITTLE
DETAILS,
R

Fair enough. I was thinking more of troop movements rather than supply lines after the invasion of France.

237 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:47pm

re: #226 buzzsawmonkey

Hey, the Charge of the Light-Weight Brigade was written by 'Alf-assed, Lord Tennisnet.

Didn't they all wear Cardigans in that Brigade?

238 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:46:53pm

re: #159 zombie

Great job, Zombie!

A brief comment about Mao: as a young man, he taught at the Yale School in China, and spoke English fluently. In 1948, when Chinese communist soldiers started murdering American missionaries in the streets during the civil war, one of my cousins traveled through the lines to meet with Mao, and negotiate a cessation in the killings. In exchange for the "truce", the missionaries pulled out of China.

I've met many young Chinese students here in NYC who tell me that their parents-- scholars, teachers, and educated professionals-- were banished to the countryside to work in the fields during the Cultural Revolution, and for ten years thereafter. They remember those years as lost time without education or hope, as gaps in their lives.

239 eon  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:47:20pm

re: #179 Kenneth

The Nazi propaganda was tailored to present the Nazis as modern, progressive & scientific. The anti-Jewish hatred was focused on race, not religion, and included many pseudo-scientific arguments about eugenics.

Not to mention their belief in mystical causes for nearly everything (from the Thule Society), their extremely weird version of cosmology (Hans Horbiger's "eternal ice" theory), and their rejection of Christianity (which Hitler referred to as a "Jewish lie") in favor of pre-Christian Odinism. (I know that gets argued about, but facts are facts- the SS especially were devout believers in the Nordic pantheon.)

They were about as "scientific" as most of the extremists on the right and left today. While Germany had a lot of extremely good engineers and scientists, the attitude of their leaders of that day toward anything like that was summed up by Hermann Goering. When someone was trying to explain a new radio navigation system (X-Gerat) to him, the commander of the Luftwaffe responded;

Navigation aids mean boxes with wires. I don't like boxes with wires.

So much for their being so much smarter than us poor, dumb, decadent democratic types.

cheers

eon

240 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:47:40pm

re: #233 zombie

Four times. You're forgetting the 4th century AD, when Germanic tribes mass-invaded Gaul, and settled there. The reason no one thinks of this one, is that the invasion was successful and permanent: Most of the modern-day "French" are descendants of these Germanic invaders.

Lots of them were Franks. Where the word "French" came from.

241 rexatosis  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:47:58pm

Just a touch of historical perspective for those blogs who have advocated making alliance with VB is similar to the Anglo-American alliance with Stalin against Hitler. Stalin had the Red Army, upon which Hitler battered the German Army against until shattered at Stalingrad (the turning point of the War in Europe--See Anthony Beevor, "Stalingrad"). VB has a couple of racists twits in suits. If one is going to make an alliance with the "enemy of my enemy" and subvert one's moral values for the pragmatic necessity of such an alliance one better make sure the enemy of one's enemy brings more to the alliance than the loss incurred in such an alliance (in the case of the Anglo-American alliance with Stalin the loss of Eastern Europe for the next fifty years). Other than the stench of Facism what the hell does VB bring to the table? Absolutely nothing!

242 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:48:03pm

re: #226 buzzsawmonkey

Hey, the Charge of the Light-Weight Brigade was written by 'Alf-assed, Lord Tennisnet.

Lord. There you go raglan on me again.......
:)

243 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:48:11pm

re: #229 Idle Drifter

The demographics are interesting in that they refute the popular image of the Nazis as ignorant thugs. In the 1930's they were seen as the "progressive" modern party for modern, educated, upwardly mobile types.

244 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:48:20pm
245 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:48:29pm

re: #233 zombie

Good call.

HOLD
THIS
RULER,
R

246 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:49:17pm

re: #229 Idle Drifter

This seems partly to ring true for the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution as well. That certain sections of society seemed all too willing to engage in the violence. All the participants needed was the excuse to shed all restraints of a civil society which was supplied by the propagandists and firebrands. Every aspect was tailored made for the desired effect.

It's interesting to contrast those with the American Revolution.
I think the difference is that the American Revolution was against British rule, but not the British system, while the French and Russian revolutions were against the entire aristocratic system.
The rule of law could continue in the Colonies, by replacing officials who were loyal to the Crown with those loyal to the Colonies.

247 JWill  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:49:33pm

I'm a far right guy. But I don't have the least bit of interest in peoples sexual preferences(among others), until they start infringing on the rights of, well mostly me.

I gave my six years defending the rights of others through the armed forces. I own guns, land and livestock.

I say this to qualify my feeling here: It's the gray matter between the ears that defines who we are. The rest is (mostly)just petty crap about the differences between us, and how that effects our own self esteem .

Like Jack Nicholson said "Were all stocked up with crazy here"

Bruce wrote a well thought out, insightful piece.

Now the dangers of Islam...their gray matter concerns me. They go out of their way to infringe...

248 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:49:34pm

re: #223 Cato the Elder

Speaking of stalkers, I wonder how much money the plainly desperate Spencer has raised from LGF2.

He's reduced to asking that lot for money now? lol

249 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:49:50pm
250 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:49:52pm

re: #221 AlexM
The problem is that the Belien is also fighting against secular humanism which is very important to personal liberty and freedom. It's why people like Geert have a warped understanding of American style freedom. A lot of Euros can't seem to understand this. I think importing defective European ideas to America is a very bad idea.

251 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:49:56pm

re: #212 Sharmuta

There is also the historical fact to be taken into account. Americans moved OUT of Europe in order to enjoy more freedom, more liberty. The ones left were the ones who had less desire for individual liberties. Their descendants are modern Europeans.
Immigration to the American shores from Europe never really slowed and was fed by the liberty seeking of their particular generation.
I am one who wants to do exactly that liberating step. I am applying for a green card.

252 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:50:09pm

re: #241 rexatosis

Other than the stench of Facism what the hell does VB bring to the table? Absolutely nothing!

That's the long and short of it, right there.

253 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:50:22pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

Interesting. You're probably right.

254 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:50:37pm

who will prevail in Britain, France, Holland, Belgium, Germany?....Islam of Euro Fascists?...everyone saw this coming down the pike decades ago and did nothing and now, very soon the bill will come due...soon someone will put the torch to Europe...Jews probably should make plans to leave or be caught in the crossfire or worse have to deal with the winners....Europe as we know it will fall....there is no stopping it now

255 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:50:55pm
As in the decline of communism, what follows on the breakdown of a state ideology is likely to be nihilism. Iran is a dying country, and it is very difficult to have a rational dialogue with a nation all of whose available choices terminate in oblivion.

- David P Goldman, aka "Spengler"

256 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:51:15pm

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

"Human rights" are special privileges granted by the government to favored groups. They are the antithesis of liberty and of the ideal of equality.

Testify, buzz!

257 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:51:23pm

re: #254 albusteve

[...] Europe as we know it will fall....there is no stopping it now

Bullshit.

258 JCM  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:51:37pm

re: #217 Kenneth

Sex, drugs and Islam

With oil at barely one-fifth of its 2008 peak price, they will run out of money some time in late 2009 or early 2010. Game theory would predict that Iran's leaders will gamble on a strategic long shot. That is not a comforting thought for Iran's neighbors.


Just in time for them to have an operational nuclear arsenal.

Cheery thought.
/

259 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:51:40pm

bigOTs are ripping us off.

260 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:52:00pm

re: #255 Kenneth

- David P Goldman, aka "Spengler"

Spengler's an idiot (although some people here seem to like him)

261 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:52:21pm

re: #239 eon

Plus, the Nazis rejected "Jewish science", so anything that Einstein or other Jews came up with, was not part of their system.

262 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:52:27pm

If the anti-jihad meltdown doesn't depress you enough, go over to Hot Air and read the comment on the Chris Matthews/Mike Pence evolution thread.

The democrats must be loving it.

263 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:52:46pm

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

"Human rights" are special privileges granted by the government to favored groups. They are the antithesis of liberty and of the ideal of equality.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

264 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:52:49pm

More...

To inform a culture that it is going to die does not necessarily win friends, and what I needed to say would be hurtful to many readers. I needed to tell the Europeans that their post-national, secular dystopia was a death-trap whence no-one would get out alive.

265 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:53:25pm

re: #229 Idle Drifter

This seems partly to ring true for the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution as well. That certain sections of society seemed all too willing to engage in the violence. All the participants needed was the excuse to shed all restraints of a civil society which was supplied by the propagandists and firebrands. Every aspect was tailored made for the desired effect.

I think another key ingredient to the violence was that those revolutions were rebelling against an aristocracy that truly had not earned it's riches, other than by the accident of birth.
The situation in America is radically different, since this country was founded in opposition to the old aristocratic paradigm and here, for the most part, the wealthy have earned what they have. That makes it much harder to rationalize violently redistributing their wealth.

266 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:54:21pm

re: #262 HelloDare

If the anti-jihad meltdown doesn't depress you enough, go over to Hot Air and read the comment on the Chris Matthews/Mike Pence evolution thread.

The democrats must be loving it.

Actually, the anti-jihad meltdown makes me happy in that the truth will emerge.

267 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:54:24pm

re: #251 callahan23

These two divergent schools of thought, though, primarily came out of the American and French Revolutions. The French had very different ideas than the Americans in how to best govern their respected societies. Here, we turned to the rule of law. In France, it was the rule of elites. They traded in one elite (a King) for other elites. You still have your elites! Very different sets of circumstances, imo, gave rise to these different schools of thought, but it doesn't change the facts that now, more than ever, europe needs to learn the value of the rule of law.

268 irish rose  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:54:29pm

Because anyone who dares side with Charles Johnson in the anti-jihad blogosphere is automatically labeled an irrelevant liberal RINO ass-kissing boot licker.

And a whore, if she's a woman.

269 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:54:35pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

He is most certainly no idiot. I found his essays always thought provoking, although I often disagreed with him. But when he was right, he was brilliantly so.

270 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:54:42pm

re: #261 Kosh's Shadow

Plus, the Nazis rejected "Jewish science", so anything that Einstein or other Jews came up with, was not part of their system.

Could easily have cost 'em the whole enchilada.

271 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:54:45pm

Ok, I sent Robert Spencer a email with a link to this Bruce Bawer just in case he has missed it.

272 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:55:28pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

Cheeky bugger!

273 researchok  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:55:37pm

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

Excellent.

See Dalrymple, ‘What a human catastrophe is the doctrine of human rights!’

274 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:55:41pm

Charles: meant to mention that I like les trois football de la division -- nice touch there.

275 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:55:58pm

re: #251 callahan23

There's more edge to it: Prior to the American Revolution, Europeans emigrated to America to escape religious persecution and other types of political and social oppression. Washington alluded to America as a sanctuary from oppression in many of his speeches and toasts.

276 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:56:23pm

re: #265 LGoPs

Exactly. The European aristocracy got what they had via inheritance, thus people wanted to take from them. In America, people don't want to take from the wealthy, they want to be the wealthy and join their ranks.

277 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:56:35pm

re: #267 Sharmuta

These two divergent schools of thought, though, primarily came out of the American and French Revolutions. The French had very different ideas than the Americans in how to best govern their respected societies. Here, we turned to the rule of law. In France, it was the rule of elites. They traded in one elite (a King) for other elites. You still have your elites! Very different sets of circumstances, imo, gave rise to these different schools of thought, but it doesn't change the facts that now, more than ever, europe needs to learn the value of the rule of law.

Same with the Russians. I knew a Russian who said the Russian Revolution went the way it did because most of the country was used to taking orders from people in Moscow. The Communists replaced the Czars and their court, but the orders still came from a group of people in Moscow.

278 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:56:46pm

re: #238 quickjustice

Great job, Zombie!

A brief comment about Mao: as a young man, he taught at the Yale School in China, and spoke English fluently. In 1948, when Chinese communist soldiers started murdering American missionaries in the streets during the civil war, one of my cousins traveled through the lines to meet with Mao, and negotiate a cessation in the killings. In exchange for the "truce", the missionaries pulled out of China.

I've met many young Chinese students here in NYC who tell me that their parents-- scholars, teachers, and educated professionals-- were banished to the countryside to work in the fields during the Cultural Revolution, and for ten years thereafter. They remember those years as lost time without education or hope, as gaps in their lives.

I know many survivors of the Cultural Revolution as well. It was a thousand times more horrific than most Americans realize.

One friend had to live in the Manchurian countryside, out in the frozen fields, for several years as a teenager, surviving on eating weeds. His father had misspoke at a meeting and was banished for re-education with most of his family. (Both father and mother eventually died as a result of their living conditions.) My friend was not allowed to attend school between the ages of 12 and 30. But in secret, he studied all by himself. In the '80s he returned to school as an adult, did well, got a visa to attend an American university, and came and stayed. Now he is a leading engineer here, greatly respected, winning awards, getting awarded patents, making big cash. He refuses to speak Mandarin any more, so great is his hatred for what happened to his family during the Cultural Revolution.

279 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:57:22pm
280 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:57:45pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

Spengler's an idiot (although some people here seem to like him)

Spengler is far from an idiot.

A very strange man, perhaps. But not an idiot.

And he knew enough to break with Spencer in June '06.

281 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:57:49pm

re: #256 MandyManners

Testify, buzz!

buzz, YOU CANNOT BE COMPELLED TO TESTIFY without a subpoena!

/good thing your lawyer got here just in time

282 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:57:53pm

re: #269 Kenneth

See #279. He's a quack and a nut.

283 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:58:07pm

re: #267 Sharmuta

These two divergent schools of thought, though, primarily came out of the American and French Revolutions. The French had very different ideas than the Americans in how to best govern their respected societies. Here, we turned to the rule of law. In France, it was the rule of elites. They traded in one elite (a King) for other elites. You still have your elites! Very different sets of circumstances, imo, gave rise to these different schools of thought, but it doesn't change the facts that now, more than ever, europe needs to learn the value of the rule of law.

I could be wrong but, it seems that Europe knows the rule of boot and crown better than law.

284 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:58:14pm

re: #240 Cato the Elder

Lots of them were Franks. Where the word "French" came from.

Precisely. The French are Germans. Shocka!

285 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:58:21pm

re: #266 MandyManners

Actually, the anti-jihad meltdown makes me happy in that the truth will emerge.

I would love to see the day when the left starts to engage in such a debate. They could examine their irrational belief in wacko ideologies such as Marxism, multiculturalism, socialism, AWG hysteria, homeopathy, & etc.

286 aggieann  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:58:26pm

re: #254 albusteve

who will prevail in Britain, France, Holland, Belgium, Germany?....Islam of Euro Fascists?...everyone saw this coming down the pike decades ago and did nothing and now, very soon the bill will come due...soon someone will put the torch to Europe...Jews probably should make plans to leave or be caught in the crossfire or worse have to deal with the winners....Europe as we know it will fall....there is no stopping it now

I sure hope Mark Steyn is working on his followup to America Alone.

287 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:58:34pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I sent Robert Spencer a email with a link to this Bruce Bawer just in case he has missed it.

Heh. Fanning the flames, are we? I like it. Let's see the response; it should be most informative.

288 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:58:44pm

re: #265 LGoPs

Re: "That makes it much harder to rationalize violently redistributing their wealth".

True that, but the current plans for redistribution go on just the same.

289 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:58:57pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I sent Robert Spencer a email with a link to this Bruce Bawer just in case he has missed it.

He's gonna' stomp his widdle foot.

290 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:59:04pm

re: #273 researchok

Darymple is a constant pleasure to read! I've also heard him speak several times.

291 Soona'  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:59:19pm

re: #221 AlexM

I do wish that Bawer didn't complain about Belien on the basis of his claim to be "fighting for Judeo-Christian morality” in addition to fighting jihadism.

A lot hinges on what is meant by "fighting." I don't mind if somebody fighting jihadism wants to fight for Christian, pagan, or for that matter Islamic morality--so long as the "fighting" taking place is rhetorical and not physical and the goal is not the personal destruction of those who disagree.

As for being contemptuous of the idea that gays deserve any human rights, I've seen that rhetorical sleight of hand too often to just believe it on its face. What is meant by that? I'm pro-gay marriage, but I've seen too much of that kind of characterization of the other side lately. It's pretty routine for gay rights proponents to say that those against gay marriage are in favor of denying basic human rights to gays. While I'd say its true that they're in favor of denying a human right (the right to marry whoever one wishes), it's hyperbole to say that they're in favor of denying "human rights" to gays.

First: I will fight whoever trys to take my country, constitution, and freedom from me. I'd rather it be non-violent, but if worse comes to worse, I'll fight oppression with anything I can get my hands on.
Second: I don't know one person who wants to take anyones rights from them. The question of gay marriage, as far as I'm concerned is that it's just another fork on the PC road. It's not about rights for most people. It's about morality.

292 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:59:20pm

re: #272 Kenneth

Cheeky bugger!

Who, me?

293 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 2:59:39pm

re: #280 Cato the Elder

Spengler is far from an idiot.

A very strange man, perhaps. But not an idiot.

And he knew enough to break with Spencer in June '06.

Forgot the link.

294 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:00:26pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

urrrgh. Link the the cache, not that bigot.

295 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:00:34pm

re: #268 irish rose

Because anyone who dares side with Charles Johnson in the anti-jihad blogosphere is automatically labeled an irrelevant liberal RINO ass-kissing boot licker.

And a whore, if she's a woman.

What in the world?!

296 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:00:39pm

re: #248 Jimmah

He's reduced to asking that lot for money now? lol

Specifically targeting them, no less.

297 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:00:41pm

re: #277 Kosh's Shadow

Same with the Russians. I knew a Russian who said the Russian Revolution went the way it did because most of the country was used to taking orders from people in Moscow. The Communists replaced the Czars and their court, but the orders still came from a group of people in Moscow.

Yes. In America, we didn't have the european styled hierarchy of royalty, nobility, etc. The euros modified their existing system, always exchanging one set of elites for another. Here in America, since we didn't have that system (except for perhaps a sort of gentry in the wealthy land owners) it was easier for us to devise a system that avoided those pitfalls.

The philosophers of the French Revolutionary era did not understand why we established our Constitution with checks and balances on power. I think they still don't understand the fundamental reason why our Founders felt this necessary. They are, however, reaping the "rewards".

298 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:00:48pm

re: #280 Cato the Elder

Try this one....
Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam

By Spengler


It's nonsense.

299 Altermite  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:00:51pm

re: #262 HelloDare

If the anti-jihad meltdown doesn't depress you enough, go over to Hot Air and read the comment on the Chris Matthews/Mike Pence evolution thread.

The democrats must be loving it.

Most of them aren't really aware that its a serious issue in the current GoP. Most of the blogs where the argument is happening tend to be really, really hostile to democrats, so they usually don't stick around to get a feel for it (LGF is one of the few where the more malicious stuff is filtered out). Kind of like diving headlong in to Kos and such, but from the other direction. Or yahoo comments sections for anyone with half a brain.

Personally, I'm bothered that it's reached this point. Do not like falwell's legacy.

300 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:05pm

re: #283 MandyManners

I could be wrong but, it seems that Europe knows the rule of boot and crown better than law.

Not wrong in the slightest.

301 Soona'  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:15pm

re: #240 Cato the Elder

Lots of them were Franks. Where the word "French" came from.

So they're all wieners? :)

302 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:20pm

re: #244 buzzsawmonkey

And balaclava helmets.

Cri me a river........

303 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:23pm

re: #296 Cato the Elder

Specifically targeting them, no less.

Who else does he have?!

304 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:28pm

re: #281 Occasional Reader

buzz, YOU CANNOT BE COMPELLED TO TESTIFY without a subpoena!

/good thing your lawyer got here just in time

Now, what words to describe attorneys were we discussing this morning?

305 jantjepietje  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:32pm

It really is too bad that Fortuijn is dead one of the big differences between him and Geert Wilders is that Fortuijn really was an intellectual (he was a professor at Erasmus University) while Geert Wilders dropped out of law school. And he wasn't as hypocritical as GW to ask for freedom himself and then deny it to those he opposed.

306 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:34pm

re: #289 MandyManners

He's gonna' stomp his widdle foot.

I can't comment on his web site or Pam's, all my account there have been blocked.

Damn, I'm missing the boat here. I should start Jihad Watch Too! Or maybe Allan Shrugged. I wonder how I would look in naked in gold leaf body paint?

307 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:01:59pm

re: #294 Thanos

urrrgh. Link the the cache, not that bigot.

Sorry, my bad. I didn't think Spengler links were a problem.

308 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:02:08pm

re: #285 Kenneth

I would love to see the day when the left starts to engage in such a debate. They could examine their irrational belief in wacko ideologies such as Marxism, multiculturalism, socialism, AWG hysteria, homeopathy, & etc.

How many on the Left are capable of such an examination?

309 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:02:13pm

re: #295 MandyManners

What in the world?!

Irish Rose is right. You should see the names they use for those who take our stand over at some of those sites. It's disgusting. Language to make Rayra blush.

310 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:02:24pm

re: #240 Cato the Elder

Lots of them were Franks. Where the word "French" came from.

I think you're in the Ball Park.....
:)

311 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:02:38pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

I'd be careful about trusting anything from Steve Sailer. He's a contributor to VDARE:

Steve Sailer, who often writes about race and intelligence, argued on VDARE following Hurricane Katrina that the lower average IQ of African-Americans found in intelligence research correlates with "poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups resulting in the need for stricter moral guidance from society." He said that looting after the 1995 Kobe earthquake was minimal because "when you get down to it, Japanese aren't blacks."

312 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:02:47pm

re: #307 Killgore Trout

Sorry, my bad. I didn't think Spengler links were a problem.

You are linking to Steve Sailer......

313 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:02:55pm

re: #286 aggieann

I sure hope Mark Steyn is working on his followup to America Alone.

writing a book will not prevent the bloodshed...Europe could not save itself in 1914 or 1939 or during the Cold War...are we prepared to go over there and separate blood enemies and destroy fascism again?...will it come to that?...jus askin...nobody like that question

314 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:02:58pm

re: #294 Thanos

Maybe that should be reported for cleanup.

315 formercorpsman  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:03:01pm

re: #223 Cato the Elder

Is he there asking for donations?

316 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:03:06pm

re: #284 zombie

Precisely. The French are Germans. Shocka!

The exceptions being, of course:

- Bretons (who are Celts)
- Blonde girls from Normandy (descended from Viking rapists)
- Short, square-jawed dark-haired Provençals (descended from Roman settlers)
- ...and the usual litany of modern immigrants (Vietnamese, Arabs, Senegalese, etc.)

317 AlexM  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:03:16pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

The problem is that the Belien is also fighting against secular humanism which is very important to personal liberty and freedom. It's why people like Geert have a warped understanding of American style freedom. A lot of Euros can't seem to understand this. I think importing defective European ideas to America is a very bad idea.

Okay, but isn't part of "American style freedom" the right to fight against secular humanism? It all depends on what's meant by fighting.

Any preacher, for example, is fighting against secular humanism. There's nothing wrong with that until it really starts creeping into the country's legal framework, a legal framework which actual defines the terms according to which secular AND religious types can fight against each other like cats and dogs. It's all good until it crosses certain lines--and either side could be responsible. If somebody like Belien is crossing those lines in fighting secular humanism, then he deserves to be attacked for that--but for the line-crossing, not merely for the airy notion of being one who "fights" secular humanism.

318 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:03:19pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

Holy crap... I did not know of his association with LaRouche. I am very interested to know what he thinks of LaRouche today. In his recent coming out essay, Spengler/Goldman talks about his renewed commitment to religious Judaism. I would hope any past beliefs in Larouche did not survive the change.

319 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:03:19pm

re: #311 Charles

Ah, sorry about that.

320 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:05pm

Gah! Gotta' go finish dinner. Later, sweet taters.

321 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:07pm

re: #319 Killgore Trout

Stinky's aware :)

322 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:09pm

re: #317 AlexM

Okay, but isn't part of "American style freedom" the right to fight against secular humanism?


Uh, no. It's the foundation of our freedom.

323 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:21pm

re: #311 Charles

Joy. I see that bigot Epstein also contributes to VDARE.

324 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:46pm
Recently, Andrew Sullivan posted a link to an article about Charles Johnson,

While I am happy that LGF is on the right side (right = correct) of things with respect to Vlaams Belang et al, I do hope we can all maintain some critical distance from Andrews "what's up with Sarah Palin's vajayjay" Sullivan.

325 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:46pm

re: #298 Killgore Trout

Try this one....
Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam

By Spengler

It's nonsense.

Nonsense and idiocy are not always coterminous.

I learned a lot from reading Spengler. As I also did from Spencer.

Of the two, Spengler still has my respect as a human being, however nutty he may be in some regards.

Spencer, on the other hand, is a moral moron.

326 formercorpsman  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:47pm

re: #278 zombie

Zombie, that is a sad, and great story at the same time.

327 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:48pm

re: #284 zombie

Precisely. The French are Germans. Shocka!

The Franks were Germanic. "Germany" is a more recent invention.

/Angles and Saxons and Jutes, oh my

328 irish rose  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:04:48pm

re: #319 Killgore Trout

Ah, sorry about that.

{ Killgore} :)

329 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:05:10pm

re: #315 formercorpsman

Is he there asking for donations?

That's right.

330 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:05:18pm

re: #268 irish rose

Because anyone who dares side with Charles Johnson in the anti-jihad blogosphere is automatically labeled an irrelevant liberal RINO ass-kissing boot licker.

And a whore, if she's a woman.

Hey, what about us men? We can be whores too, you know...

331 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:06:08pm

re: #299 Altermite

You can bet the Democratic Party has noticed it. And obviously the press has, too.

332 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:06:20pm

re: #288 brookly red

Re: "That makes it much harder to rationalize violently redistributing their wealth".

True that, but the current plans for redistribution go on just the same.

I'm afraid you're right. Our *deleted* President said he was the only thing standing between them and the pitchforks.
I can't believe we elected this.............um,......person.

333 DEZes  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:06:23pm

re: #330 Kenneth

Hey, what about us men? We can be whores too, you know...

I have never charged for sex, so I must just be a male slut.

334 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:06:37pm

re: #308 MandyManners

2 or 3...

Maybe more.

335 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:06:40pm

re: #323 Honorary Yooper

Joy. I see that bigot Epstein also contributes to VDARE.

All are part of that Free Congress foundation constellation... you will also find most of them writing for the rags at Rockford institute along with Serge as well.

336 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:06:51pm

re: #268 irish rose

They've taken to calling us Jihadi terrorist sympathizers as well.

AS
IF,
R

337 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:06:59pm

re: #311 Charles

I'd be careful about trusting anything from Steve Sailer though. He's a contributor to VDARE:

Steve Sailer, who often writes about race and intelligence, argued on VDARE following Hurricane Katrina that the lower average IQ of African-Americans found in intelligence research correlates with "poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups resulting in the need for stricter moral guidance from society." He said that looting after the 1995 Kobe earthquake was minimal because "when you get down to it, Japanese aren't blacks."

Yikes!

Long ago, I once linked to something (much less controvesral) that he had written, unaware of his true views. When I found out (many months afterward) what he was like, I went to the trouble of going back and removing the link. I get racism cooties just from remembering it!

338 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:07:01pm

re: #283 MandyManners

The rule of law was an English concept, and in 1688, the English had booted out their tyrannical Catholic ruler, and replaced him with William and Mary, both Dutch Protestants.

The Americans were English first, and drew upon the Glorious Revolution to champion the "rights of Englishmen" which they embellished during the early 18th Century. The Founding Fathers actually claimed that they were defending English liberty better than the English themselves. And the American rebels had staunch supporters in the English Parliament. Benjamin Franklin, who had been a colonial agent in London for many years, was crafty enough to exploit all of this.

339 ShanghaiEd  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:07:09pm

re: #262 HelloDare

I thought I was pretty much inured to fundamentalist comments on threads dealing with religious issues, but this comment on creationism/evolution even gave me chills:

I may not be right, but Jesus IS.

I wouldn’t bet against Him.

in a way hell is merciful, to those in sin, God’s very presence is unbearable…look at the reaction of the demons to Jesus’ presence…

right4life on May 6, 2009

The Christ-like love and empathy just wafts off that one, doesn't it? /

340 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:07:24pm

re: #267 Sharmuta

The elitist thing is very alive and well even in "Chancengleichheit" = equality of chances - Germany. It is not a meritocracy much rather it depends on who you know to get the job.
Etc. yadda, yadda. Same old, same old.
/rant off - releasing anger kzss

341 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:07:26pm

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

"Human rights" are special privileges granted by the government to favored groups. They are the antithesis of liberty and of the ideal of equality.

Bullshit.

342 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:07:31pm
343 eon  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:07:32pm

re: #261 Kosh's Shadow

Plus, the Nazis rejected "Jewish science", so anything that Einstein or other Jews came up with, was not part of their system.

Which left them with only Werner Heisenberg in the high-energy physics field, and drastically slowed their A-bomb project. Fortunately for us.

Most people today (especially those who like to refer to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs as "crimes") seem totally unaware that both Germany and Japan were trying very hard to create workable fission weapons. In fact, I have a book (Volume VI of the 1946-47 Wise Pictorial History of the Second World War) showing a photo of Japanese cyclotrons being dumped in the Pacific from a U.S. Navy ship in late 1945. The Germans even considered using modified V-2s to airburst loads of radioactive dust over London.

We were just lucky that we got to the nuclear "finish line" first.

cheers

eon

344 jantjepietje  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:08:00pm

re: #316 zombie

The exceptions being, of course:

- Bretons (who are Celts)
- Blonde girls from Normandy (descended from Viking rapists)
- Short, square-jawed dark-haired Provençals (descended from Roman settlers)
- ...and the usual litany of modern immigrants (Vietnamese, Arabs, Senegalese, etc.)

You are forgetting about the Basque population the pay d'oc what they call the french catalans etc

345 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:08:29pm

re: #317 AlexM

It's a matter of the proper role of government. Government needs to allow society to evolve in its own way, provided we're not undermining the rule of law. It's when government thinks it can engage in social engineering that trouble starts.

346 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:08:59pm

re: #288 brookly red

Re: "That makes it much harder to rationalize violently redistributing their wealth".

True that, but the current plans for redistribution go on just the same.

This Administration is splaying class warfare. This isn't new , but what does appear different is that a large amount of the populace are in to it.
The polls show a really shocking number of citizens that now favor Socialism, which transltes to them as wealth redistribution.
When you get a critical mass of people who will be the beneficiaries as opposed to the losers, rational thought fails.

347 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:09:15pm
348 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:10:06pm

re: #336 Render

We're all dhimmis because we won't align with fascists. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

349 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:10:45pm

re: #332 LGoPs

I'm afraid you're right. Our *deleted* President said he was the only thing standing between them and the pitchforks.
I can't believe we elected this.............um,......person.

Well it seems that the threat of violence is sufficient, for now...

350 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:10:48pm

re: #345 Sharmuta

It's a matter of the proper role of government. Government needs to allow society to evolve in its own way, provided we're not undermining the rule of law. It's when government thinks it can engage in social engineering that trouble starts.

how does that apply to Europe?...they socially engineered their immigration for specific purposes....now can they undo it? should they?....

351 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:10:49pm

re: #339 ShanghaiEd

I'm just happy people like that were not born into a radical muslim family.

352 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:11:09pm

re: #316 zombie

The exceptions being, of course:

- Bretons (who are Celts)
- Blonde girls from Normandy (descended from Viking rapists)
- Short, square-jawed dark-haired Provençals (descended from Roman settlers)
- ...and the usual litany of modern immigrants (Vietnamese, Arabs, Senegalese, etc.)


... and Laetitia Casta, who is in a sort of superhuman class all by herself.

353 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:11:42pm

re: #343 eon

Which left them with only Werner Heisenberg in the high-energy physics field, and drastically slowed their A-bomb project. Fortunately for us.

Most people today (especially those who like to refer to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs as "crimes") seem totally unaware that both Germany and Japan were trying very hard to create workable fission weapons. In fact, I have a book (Volume VI of the 1946-47 Wise Pictorial History of the Second World War) showing a photo of Japanese cyclotrons being dumped in the Pacific from a U.S. Navy ship in late 1945. The Germans even considered using modified V-2s to airburst loads of radioactive dust over London.

We were just lucky that we got to the nuclear "finish line" first.

cheers

eon

Heisenberg miscalculated the amount of fissionable material needed to make a bomb. He thought it would take much more than it did, meaning the war would be over before the Nazis made enough.
Later he claimed that was deliberate, but I am reasonably sure that it was a mistake.

354 n2stox  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:11:56pm

re: #171 Sharmuta

Bingo.

And when moderates are stuck in the middle, they feel powerless. Which, in turn, forces them to pick a side, and there's no chance they will be on the side of the "rioting youths."

It won't likely come to that here, although sometimes I wonder living here in Seattle.

355 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:12:39pm

re: #354 n2stox

Bingo.

And when moderates are stuck in the middle, they feel powerless. Which, in turn, forces them to pick a side, and there's no chance they will be on the side of the "rioting youths."

It won't likely come to that here, although sometimes I wonder living here in Seattle.

heh...pick a side, like that

356 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:12:40pm

re: #298 Killgore Trout

Try this one....
Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam

By Spengler

It's nonsense.

Hirsi Ali has my unqualified admiration. The courage which guided her journey from Somalia to the Netherlands still prompts her to warn of the dangers before the West at great risk to her own life. I have a similar admiration for Orhan Pamuk, now in virtual exile from his native Turkey, and Rushdie, who remains in danger of a Muslim death warrant, and other Muslim apostates who refuse to be intimidated. Courage, Winston Churchill said, is the first of the virtues, for without it, one does not have the opportunity to exercise the others. Yet it is not the only virtue, and I hope that Hirsi Ali's journey takes her further, beyond atheism.

It seems a very intelligent discussion to me. I don't agree with every point he makes, but much of it is sensible. What do you object to?

357 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:12:42pm

re: #344 jantjepietje

You are forgetting about the Basque population the pay d'oc what they call the french catalans etc

Yup -- and there are other smaller groups as well. Remnants of British colonists from the reign of Henry II; Swiss; Greek colonists in ancient Marseille; you name it.

358 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:12:51pm

re: #350 albusteve

how does that apply to Europe?...they socially engineered their immigration for specific purposes....now can they undo it? should they?....

That's exactly WHY they're in trouble. Should they have done it- of course not. But until they come to appreciate the rule of law, they'll continue to repeat their own history of blood and soil warfare.

359 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:13:40pm

As a rather sad prediction, We will see more power garnered by the Far-Right Socialist parties in Europe and Britian as the current ruling parties are too scared or pyschologically incapable to addressing Islamist aggression, being disarmed by the cultural indoctrination of the Left.

And we are having to same crap that's screwed up europe being fostered in our schools and on the MSM here.

It's wake up time people

360 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:14:05pm

re: #347 buzzsawmonkey

I am underwhelmed by your eloquence.

You know I've disagreed with you on this same point, but I do hope I always remembered to do so in a more civil fashion.

361 DEZes  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:14:13pm

re: #352 Occasional Reader

... and Laetitia Casta, who is in a sort of superhuman class all by herself.

Wowser!

362 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:14:48pm

re: #359 Jewels (AKA Julian)

As a rather sad prediction, We will see more power garnered by the Far-Right Socialist parties in Europe and Britian as the current ruling parties are too scared or pyschologically incapable to addressing Islamist aggression, being disarmed by the cultural indoctrination of the Left.

And we are having to same crap that's screwed up europe being fostered in our schools and on the MSM here.

It's wake up time people

Yep- when I hear people wax poetic that we should be more like europe, I cringe.

363 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:14:56pm

re: #358 Sharmuta

That's exactly WHY they're in trouble. Should they have done it- of course not. But until they come to appreciate the rule of law, they'll continue to repeat their own history of blood and soil warfare.

some people feel that Europe will yet avoid massive violence...I wonder how...rule of what law?...it seems to me to be an unavoidable showdown...the two side want it and eventually they will have it...imo

364 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:14:58pm

re: #330 Kenneth

Hey, what about us men? We can be whores too, you know...

We just want to be.

365 formercorpsman  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:15:55pm

re: #329 Cato the Elder

That is the cherry on top.

I don't have words.

366 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:15:58pm

re: #333 DEZes

I have never charged for sex, so I must just be a male slut.


Aha! Important distinction.

I'd go either way.

367 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:16:48pm

Hmmmm....Spencer just put up an Ayaan Hirsi Ali thread. Maybe he's getting ready to do some backtracking.

368 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:16:53pm

re: #346 opnion

This Administration is splaying class warfare. This isn't new , but what does appear different is that a large amount of the populace are in to it.
The polls show a really shocking number of citizens that now favor Socialism, which transltes to them as wealth redistribution.
When you get a critical mass of people who will be the beneficiaries as opposed to the losers, rational thought fails.

We are in real danger of reaching the magic 51% needed for critical mass, & with this current round of spending it don't look good.

369 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:16:55pm

re: #352 Occasional Reader

... and Laetitia Casta, who is in a sort of superhuman class all by herself.


She's Corsican.

So that's her actual hair, not a bikini.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

370 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:17:15pm

re: #342 buzzsawmonkey

Obama spoke of it as "negative rights", i.e., the old-fashioned right to be free of government oppression, and "positive rights", i.e. the right to food, clothing shelter, a job, etc., all provided by the government. He, of course, supports positive rights.

371 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:17:35pm
372 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:18:12pm

re: #337 zombie

Yikes!

Long ago, I once linked to something (much less controvesral) that he had written, unaware of his true views. When I found out (many months afterward) what he was like, I went to the trouble of going back and removing the link. I get racism cooties just from remembering it!


It's a very nasty and unsettling area to get into. Of course, there ARE repeated IQ (and other intelligence test) patterns across races and ethnicities that can be derived thorough statistical analysis (see, e.g., John McWhorter); but what that information MEANS is the big question.

373 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:18:32pm

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Hmmmm....Spencer just put up an Ayaan Hirsi Ali thread. Maybe he's getting ready to do some backtracking.

More likely he's smart enough to know if he bitches about Mr Bawer, he reveals himself.

374 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:18:50pm

re: #349 brookly red

Well it seems that the threat of violence is sufficient, for now...

And they said Bush was shredding the Constitution............
This truly is Alice in Wonderland we are living in.

375 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:19:32pm

re: #369 Ben Hur

She's Corsican.

So that's her actual hair, not a bikini.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT LAETITIA CASTA

376 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:19:41pm

re: #363 albusteve

rule of what law?

Exactly.

377 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:19:56pm

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Hmmmm....Spencer just put up an Ayaan Hirsi Ali thread. Maybe he's getting ready to do some backtracking.

It's reflexive cover

378 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:20:07pm
379 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:20:16pm

re: #366 Ben Hur

re: #333 DEZes

I have never charged for sex, so I must just be a male slut.


Aha! Important distinction.

I'd go either way.

We're not judging you, Ben.

380 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:20:27pm

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Hmmmm....Spencer just put up an Ayaan Hirsi Ali thread. Maybe he's getting ready to do some backtracking.

I don't think so, since there is nothing in the article about the nationalist groups in Europe.

381 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:20:34pm

re: #374 LGoPs

And they said Bush was shredding the Constitution............
This truly is Alice in Wonderland we are living in.

not the book I was thinking of, but strange times indeed.

382 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:20:43pm

re: #369 Ben Hur

You're pretty funny, Big Guy.

383 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:20:56pm

re: #373 Sharmuta

More likely he's smart enough to know if he bitches about Mr Bawer, he reveals himself.

yes, exactly....squirm

384 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:21:04pm

re: #352 Occasional Reader

... and Laetitia Casta, who is in a sort of superhuman class all by herself.

When you are right, you are way way right.

385 eon  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:21:04pm

re: #353 Kosh's Shadow

Heisenberg miscalculated the amount of fissionable material needed to make a bomb. He thought it would take much more than it did, meaning the war would be over before the Nazis made enough.
Later he claimed that was deliberate, but I am reasonably sure that it was a mistake.

Those misplaced decimal points get you every time.

/Seriously- I've read Heisenberg's War.

cheers

eon

386 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:21:21pm

re: #375 Occasional Reader

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT LAETITIA CASTA

I don't like this subject.
Let's Schiffer over to Claudia.

387 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:21:25pm

re: #368 brookly red

We are in real danger of reaching the magic 51% needed for critical mass, & with this current round of spending it don't look good.


That is why the 2010 elections are so important. If enough House seats are turned over, they could build a firewall until 2012.
Doesn't look good though, it would take about 40 seats.

388 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:21:48pm

beer run...

389 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:22:10pm

re: #380 Walter L. Newton

I don't think so, since there is nothing in the article about the nationalist groups in Europe.

give him time....he can't just shut up can he?

390 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:22:18pm

re: #344 jantjepietje

You are forgetting about the Basque population the pay d'oc what they call the french catalans etc

The entire world is a 'mixed multitude'. We should get used to it.

391 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:22:19pm

re: #356 Kenneth

First of all the entire premise is nonsense....

Why do Muslim apostates gravitate towards atheism? That is not true of other religions.

Which continent has the most atheists? Europe not the middle east or North Africa. They used to be Christians but gave it up. Places like the USSR and China are different because they outlawed religion but the Christians of Europe are are voluntarily giving up religion faster than anyone else in history.

392 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:22:37pm

re: #378 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, he did. It is not clear whether he fails to understand that what he calls "negative rights" are what leaves the space for freedom to flourish, or whether he does understand that and hates them on that score. Either way, what he calls "positive rights" are, inevitably encroachments on freedom.

It's funny... take a look at the constitutions of some of the poorest, most screwed up countries on the planet, and they're often chock full of "positive rights". Everyone has the "right" to work... and a clean environment.... and housing... and even leisure! Yet for some odd reason, these "rights" just fail to magically materialize in countries whose average per capita GDP is around, say, $2000.

393 formercorpsman  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:22:48pm

re: #384 Cato the Elder

Would I be insane to say I like the sweater picture the best?

394 cheese_burger  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:23:38pm

"What the hell, one is entitled to wonder, is going on here? Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers?"

My best guess would be, because the anti-jihadist movement, especially in Europe, where the indigenous culture is under a virtual siege by the jihadists, is finally beginning to turn away from talking, and writing about the problem, and turning to whatever elements that can find, who are willing to do violence to the jihadists, and probably, to Muslims in general.

Hate begets hate.

395 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:23:46pm
396 Ben Hur  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:23:48pm

BBL

397 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:23:51pm

re: #387 opnion

That is why the 2010 elections are so important. If enough House seats are turned over, they could build a firewall until 2012.
Doesn't look good though, it would take about 40 seats.

it is a monumental fight but it has to be confronted...it can be done and the consequences of failure to stop BO is unspeakable imo

398 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:23:53pm

re: #296 Cato the Elder

Specifically targeting them, no less.

That's so sad for him. Heh :)

399 Yashmak  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:24:22pm

Nice to see these supportive words from Bruce Bawer. I would love to see how Dymphna and the GoV crowd reacts to this, but alas, I refuse to read their site anymore.

400 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:24:47pm

Back on topic....
It's very nice to see some support from withing the counterjihad movement. There really hasn't been much until now.

401 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:25:14pm

re: #384 Cato the Elder

When you are right, you are way way right.

Okay, settle down, there, Cato.

402 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:25:39pm

re: #378 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, he did. It is not clear whether he fails to understand that what he calls "negative rights" are what leaves the space for freedom to flourish, or whether he does understand that and hates them on that score. Either way, what he calls "positive rights" are, inevitably encroachments on freedom.

BHO may fancy himself a Constitutional scholar , but in my view he does not grasp the fundamental purpose of ther document. It was to protect the populace from the tyranny of the government.
The Founding Fouders were not attempting to implement a commune.
Obama displayed his basic misunderstanding in the famous NPR interview.

403 DEZes  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:26:08pm

re: #393 formercorpsman

Would I be insane to say I like the sweater picture the best?

Only a little. :)

404 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:26:25pm

re: #400 Killgore Trout

Back on topic....
It's very nice to see some support from withing the counterjihad movement. There really hasn't been much until now.

Some have peered over the brink and not liked what they saw.

405 formercorpsman  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:27:07pm

re: #403 DEZes

I just love tight sweaters. Skin ain't bad either, but the sweaters, yeah.

406 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:27:15pm

re: #393 formercorpsman

Would I be insane to say I like the sweater picture the best?

Guess what - it's mine, too.

Although the one with the mussy hair gets me all...er...whets my...umm...raises my spirits.

407 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:27:20pm
408 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:27:24pm

re: #393 formercorpsman

Would I be insane to say I like the sweater picture the best?

There's an even better, sweaterless pic I could link to, but... not from work!

409 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:27:53pm

re: #400 Killgore Trout

Back on topic....
It's very nice to see some support from withing the counterjihad movement. There really hasn't been much until now.

yes but will it make any difference in peoples attitude?...does the gen population even care who this guy is?....it's a viscious fight but small....meanwhile the antagonism grows and battle lines are drawn...who do you think will win out?

410 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:27:53pm

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Hmmmm....Spencer just put up an Ayaan Hirsi Ali thread. Maybe he's getting ready to do some backtracking.

I wouldn't bet on that.

411 eon  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:28:07pm

Well, I'm out for the night. See you in the morning.

Good night, Lizards.

Stay scaly.

cheers

eon

412 DEZes  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:28:09pm

re: #405 formercorpsman

I just love tight sweaters. Skin ain't bad either, but the sweaters, yeah.

If she is wearing I like it, if she aint wearing it, I love it.

413 n2stox  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:28:31pm

re: #355 albusteve

heh...pick a side, like that

Hey, man, I find myself in that position sometimes.

I live in a loony left state/county. A few years back, at a party where I hardly knew anyone, I was known simply as "the Republican."

The only thing my wife let's me talk about at these parties is sports and the weather for fear I might skewer each and every one of her lib friends with the facts.

She's come over to our side, though. I was telling her a blurb about some things the city of Seattle was planning in the way of taxes and private property, and I said "You know what we might need to do?"

And she replies "Get another gun?"

Nope. I was just talking about a plan to take a vacation.

414 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:28:34pm

re: #399 Yashmak

Nice to see these supportive words from Bruce Bawer. I would love to see how Dymphna and the GoV crowd reacts to this, but alas, I refuse to read their site anymore.

Well, just in case GOV missed this story, I emailed them a link. Naughty me.

415 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:28:42pm

re: #406 Cato the Elder

Guess what - it's mine, too.

Although the one with the mussy hair gets me all...er...whets my...umm...raises my spirits.

COLD SHOWER ON AISLE 406 !

416 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #394 cheese_burger

Got it in one.

417 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #338 quickjustice

Just a comment, the Protestant English Monarchs were no more enlightened that the Catholic Monarchs. The Magna Carta was not something dreamt up by the throne.

418 AlexM  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:29:20pm

It appears to me that this comes down to tension between three different groups who are against the jihadists but for perhaps different motivations.

1). Right wing racist extremists who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and emphasize the racial elements involved.

2). Fundamentalist Christians who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and emphasize their own religion program as the solution.

3) Secular humanists who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and see it as evidence of the problems caused by religion in the world.

Group #1 would love to bring groups #2 and #3 aboard--in order to advance an insidious agenda that goes far beyond the fight against jihadists--but neither Group #1 or Group #2 wants anything to do with Group #1. Group #3 tries to tar Group #2 by refusing to acknowledge the ways in which they differ from Goup #1. Group #2 thinks everybody else needs to accept Jesus. Especially the gays.

Basically I don't think anybody has really kept their noses clean here. Or their eyes on the ball.

419 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:29:36pm

re: #410 Charles

I wouldn't bet on that.

Neither would I. As I said above, I read the whole story, it has no references to these Euro-national groups at all. She does mention Bawer.

420 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:29:39pm

re: #407 buzzsawmonkey

or whether he is merely using Constitutional language as the sheep's pelt

Shearling you jest!

421 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:30:31pm

re: #418 AlexM

It appears to me that this comes down to tension between three different groups who are against the jihadists but for perhaps different motivations.

1). Right wing racist extremists who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and emphasize the racial elements involved.

2). Fundamentalist Christians who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and emphasize their own religion program as the solution.

3) Secular humanists who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and see it as evidence of the problems caused by religion in the world.

Group #1 would love to bring groups #2 and #3 aboard--in order to advance an insidious agenda that goes far beyond the fight against jihadists--but neither Group #1 or Group #2 wants anything to do with Group #1. Group #3 tries to tar Group #2 by refusing to acknowledge the ways in which they differ from Goup #1. Group #2 thinks everybody else needs to accept Jesus. Especially the gays.

Basically I don't think anybody has really kept their noses clean here. Or their eyes on the ball.

And what about Charles' position?

422 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:30:31pm

re: #410 Charles

I wouldn't bet on that.

Charles and Killgore, would you please quit interrupting the Boobular French Model Thread with this stuff?

Sheesh... the nerve of some people...

423 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:30:54pm

re: #417 opnion

Just a comment, the Protestant English Monarchs were no more enlightened that the Catholic Monarchs. The Magna Carta was not something dreamt up by the throne.

The Magna Carta was also signed by a Catholic monarch. But it's still pretty cool, although I do have to agree with the bit from '1066 And All That' where they say that the Magna Carta specifies that barons have to be tried by a jury of other barons, who will understand.

424 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:30:56pm

re: #420 Occasional Reader

Shearling you jest!

You bleat me to it........

425 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:30:56pm

re: #407 buzzsawmonkey

It remains unclear whether he does not understand it, or whether he is merely using Constitutional language as the sheep's pelt to wrap around his anti-constitutional agenda.

You may be correct, it is one or the other. Either way, he does not honor the document.

426 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:31:13pm

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Hmmmm....Spencer just put up an Ayaan Hirsi Ali thread. Maybe he's getting ready to do some backtracking.

Interesting that he doesn't attack her for shunning VB, eh?

427 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:31:36pm

re: #422 Occasional Reader

Charles and Killgore, would you please quit interrupting the Boobular French Model Thread with this stuff?

Sheesh... the nerve of some people...

I'd rather talk about Spencer, Pam, euro-national-trash etc. I see that other stuff all the time.

428 n2stox  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:31:40pm

re: #418 AlexM

It appears to me that this comes down to tension between three different groups who are against the jihadists but for perhaps different motivations.

1). Right wing racist extremists who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and emphasize the racial elements involved.

2). Fundamentalist Christians who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and emphasize their own religion program as the solution.

3) Secular humanists who see the problems caused by Islamic extremists and see it as evidence of the problems caused by religion in the world.

Group #1 would love to bring groups #2 and #3 aboard--in order to advance an insidious agenda that goes far beyond the fight against jihadists--but neither Group #1 or Group #2 wants anything to do with Group #1. Group #3 tries to tar Group #2 by refusing to acknowledge the ways in which they differ from Goup #1. Group #2 thinks everybody else needs to accept Jesus. Especially the gays.

Basically I don't think anybody has really kept their noses clean here. Or their eyes on the ball.


And, add to that the fact that if you agree with any single point of groups 1, 2, or 3, the left wing kooks (many in the MSM and Obama administration) will gladly call you a right wing extremist.

429 rightside  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:31:40pm

re: #422 Occasional Reader

Here! here!

430 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:31:46pm
431 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:32:01pm

re: #422 Occasional Reader

Charles and Killgore, would you please quit interrupting the Boobular French Model Thread with this stuff?

Sheesh... the nerve of some people...

Stinky would probably delete that comment ... if he wasn't too busy staring at Cato's Casta photos.

432 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:33:01pm
433 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:33:01pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.

We live in similar (brave new) worlds.

434 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:33:03pm

re: #427 Walter L. Newton

I'd rather talk about Spencer, Pam, euro-national-trash etc.

Well, Pam's got good boobs. Spencer, I can't attest to.

435 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:33:12pm
436 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:33:47pm

re: #426 Jimmah

Interesting that he doesn't attack her for shunning VB, eh?

Yes, that is interesting.

437 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:33:49pm

re: #423 SanFranciscoZionist

The Magna Carta was also signed by a Catholic monarch. But it's still pretty cool, although I do have to agree with the bit from '1066 And All That' where they say that the Magna Carta specifies that barons have to be tried by a jury of other barons, who will understand.

Itr is facinating, the English do not have a single document like the Constitution, which lays out their rights. Instead it is a series of documents & the courts have done very well with that model.

438 callahan23  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:33:55pm

re: #408 Occasional Reader

There's an even better, sweaterless pic I could link to, but... not from work!

This is not save is almost save and what eyes.

439 Yashmak  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:34:13pm

re: #414 Walter L. Newton

Well, just in case GOV missed this story, I emailed them a link. Naughty me.

Oooh, upding for that! Wish I'd thought of it. I'll just have a pleasant daydream of heads a-'sploding instead.

440 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:34:28pm

re: #418 AlexM

I have to disagree. Some of us oppose islamic extremism because of our position on individual rights and freedom of conscience.

We don't care about race, so we're not #1.

We're not all Christians, so it's not #2.

We support the free exercise of individuals, so we're not #3.

I think it's simple. Some oppose the islamization of the west because it's the antithesis of our ideals as born out of the enlightenment. Other oppose islam because they're bigots of one variety or another.

441 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:34:32pm

re: #432 buzzsawmonkey

Let him who is without sinful thoughts among you Casta first stone.

Señor, that picture, she gives me a reacción that is, how you say, not very casta*.

*"chaste" in Spanish... now there's irony!

442 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:35:02pm

KT:

I've got a new rib rack I"m trying out, I'll let you know how it goes. These should be done in another hour or so.

443 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:35:07pm

re: #432 buzzsawmonkey

Let him who is without sinful thoughts among you Casta first stone.

THAT'll do Dietrich.

/Marlene ... who else?

444 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:35:53pm

re: #443 pre-Boomer Marine brat

THAT'll do Dietrich.

/Marlene ... who else?

(heh, we're gonna find out who the kids are in here.)

445 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:36:24pm

re: #439 Yashmak

Oooh, upding for that! Wish I'd thought of it. I'll just have a pleasant daydream of heads a-'sploding instead.

Oops, damn, my clicking finger slipped again, I think Pam Geller just got an email with a link to this story.

446 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:36:35pm

re: #435 Iron Fist

If they are French, what's the point? French chicks have more body hair than I do.

Yuck...

Oh, not all of 'em.

Definitely not all of 'em.

447 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:36:49pm

re: #352 Occasional Reader

... and Laetitia Casta, who is in a sort of superhuman class all by herself.

You should be ashamed. I admire her for her intellectual traits. She has a remarkable intellect, fueled by her tremendous long term mammary.....
/ ;>)

448 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:36:56pm

re: #437 opnion

Itr is facinating, the English do not have a single document like the Constitution, which lays out their rights. Instead it is a series of documents & the courts have done very well with that model.

English democracy has been a long slow process, hundreds of years in development. The U.S. grew out of that at a point where it was possible to draft a single document--although we developed lots of other documents as well, we just consider the Constitution to be the core and reference.

449 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:37:02pm
450 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:37:16pm
451 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:38:42pm

re: #449 Iron Fist

The problem with the English model is that it is too easy to change

Plus, they sometimes have f**ked-up teeth.

452 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:39:15pm

re: #440 Sharmuta

I have to disagree. Some of us oppose islamic extremism because of our position on individual rights and freedom of conscience.

We don't care about race, so we're not #1.

We're not all Christians, so it's not #2.

We support the free exercise of individuals, so we're not #3.

I think it's simple. Some oppose the islamization of the west because it's the antithesis of our ideals as born out of the enlightenment. Other oppose islam because they're bigots of one variety or another.

should Islam be opposed?....what about moderate Islam...how do you sort out Islamic bigots and what can you do with them

453 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:39:32pm

Is it late enough in the thread I can ask an off-topic question?

I am now the proud owner of an iPhone, complete with a little green football on my home screen so I can quickly find LGF.

However, when I open a thread and tap on "jump to the bottom", which I thought would bring me to the bottom of the thread, it simply opens up a whole brand new LGF page.

The "jump to the bottom" link works if I'm on my computer, but does not work on my iPhone.

Is there some trick to it that I don't know about?
Anybody know?

454 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:39:41pm

Chris Matthews interviews Tom Tacredo, who spews nonstop Discovery Institute talking points and then says he wants ID taught in schools.

Matthews is nearly as ignorant as Tancredo.

455 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:39:59pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

First of all the entire premise is nonsense....

Which continent has the most atheists? Europe not the middle east or North Africa. They used to be Christians but gave it up. Places like the USSR and China are different because they outlawed religion but the Christians of Europe are are voluntarily giving up religion faster than anyone else in history.

I see where you went wrong. You misunderstood what he wrote:

Why do Muslim apostates gravitate towards atheism? That is not true of other religions. Many Jewish converts achieved prominence in 20th-century Christianity - for example, the recently deceased Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger, the martyred Carmelite nun Edith Stein (now canonized), and the great Protestant theologian Eugene Rosenstock-Huessy. But the name of no prominent Muslim convert to Christianity (much less to Judaism) comes to mind.

He did not say that Muslims as a whole are converting to atheism more than Christians are. He is saying a much greater proportion of those Muslims who convert away from Islam are choosing atheism. There are many Christians who convert away to Islam, Buddhism, Wicca or what-have-you, as well as atheism. Spenger is asserting that Muslim apostates more often choose atheism rather than another religion.

456 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:40:03pm

Domino Sugar is now certified Carbon Free

Sugar coated consumerism or just plain crap?

I’m truly sorry for the title, but it says what I think about this succinctly. I tried half a dozen variations and kept coming back to the one word.

There are days when I think I just won’t see anything stupider cross my inbox. Then, today brings a new surprise on the winds of change. Carbon Free Sugar. Let me repeat that. Carbon Free Sugar - certified even.

Those of you who remember their basic high school chemistry might remember this simple and indelible truth: sugar contains carbon.

There is no getting around that. Don’t believe me? Try frying up some sugar in a sauce pan and watch the results. Or just pick up a used mass spectrograph on Ebay and run an analysis.

Or just consult any number of chemical handbooks. Sucrose is common table sugar (as pictured in the bag) and has the chemical formula: C12H22O11

Looks like twelve atoms of carbon combined with eleven molecules of H2O doesn’t it? That’s why it is called (drum roll please) a carbohydrate.

Eating and digesting sugar turns it into water and carbon dioxide that we exhale, so for it to be truly “carbon free” as the label says, we have to get those twelve molecules of Carbon out. So how do they get the carbon out of that sucrose anyway? It’s really easy, all we need is a catalyst.

Reacting sucrose with sulfuric acid (H2SO4) dehydrates the sucrose and forms the element carbon, as demonstrated in the following chemical equation:

C12H22O11 + H2SO4 (as catalyst) → 12 C + 11 H2O

So assuming they get the acid out of the mix, we are left with some pure carbon and a bunch of water. Yummm! Perfect for cereal in the morning.

Ok, I’m being a bit extreme, I realize the idea is to promote a carbon neutral production of sugar.

But really, couldn’t the marketing people at Domino realize how stupid this claim sounds? I’ll bet the guys at the Domino company labs are having a fit. I’d love to see the emails that went flying when they learned of this one. Beakers were probably flying across the lab too.

But some companies will do anything to appear green these days, because they want to keep that “other green footprint” high.

Ah, the sweet smell of success.

457 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:40:17pm

re: #448 SanFranciscoZionist

English democracy has been a long slow process, hundreds of years in development. The U.S. grew out of that at a point where it was possible to draft a single document--although we developed lots of other documents as well, we just consider the Constitution to be the core and reference.

Goosd analysis. The Magna Carta itself was foisted on King John by the Barons for the benefit of the Barons. What it did though was plant the seed.

458 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:40:31pm

re: #450 buzzsawmonkey

I don't remember Marlene Dietrich using that line--though I do remember her in The Blonde Venus asking Taxi Belle Hooper if she charged for the first mile.

heh, there are about 487,000 scenes I remember in Golden Earrings, especially the look she gave Ray Milland at the end.

/to die for

459 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:41:02pm

re: #449 Iron Fist

We live under the Social Contract modle of government.

But I'm starting to wonder if we forgot to include the Sanity Clause.

460 formercorpsman  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:42:08pm

re: #454 Charles

Their lining them up, and the punches keep coming.

and landing.

461 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:42:18pm

re: #434 Occasional Reader

Well, Pam's got good boobs. Spencer, I can't attest to.

The best money can buy!

462 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:43:41pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

Congratulations! I hope you two will be very happy together.

463 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:43:54pm

re: #459 Occasional Reader

But I'm starting to wonder if we forgot to include the Sanity Clause.

No Virginia, there is no Sanity Clause.

464 Sunlight  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:44:50pm

Just got here... I'm thinking that Mr. Bawer needs to have some heart-to-heart talks to Geert Wilders to extract him from the seemingly growing clutches of the VB types. Didn't we see recently that he is in the gray area of joining in with them?

465 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:44:54pm

re: #452 albusteve

I really don't care how a person worships whatever deity they wish to subscribe to so long as they're not involved with harming others. When a religion starts infringing on the rights of others, in this country, we're going to have issues.

As for the extremists and moderates in islam... the moderates need to speak up. I think it's difficult enough for them with the islamists calling them apostates worthy of death and so-called anti-jihadists calling them apostates too.

466 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:45:29pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

I am now the proud owner of an iPhone

Will you hate me for saying that there are rumors the third generation iPhone will be coming out next month?

467 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:46:22pm

Gosh, my fingers just won't stay still. I think Andrew Bostom just got a email and a link to this article.

468 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:46:53pm

re: #453 reine.de.tout

iPhone rocks. As for that specific question: I've had that happen viewing LGF on my iMac running Firefox. It's always been a temporary glitch. Maybe the same for mini-Safari on iPhone?

Try powering down and back up, and see if that helps.

469 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:47:15pm

Chris is falling into the trap of discussing last century biology instead of what's known now.

470 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:47:16pm

re: #462 Kenneth

Congratulations! I hope you two will be very happy together.

heh-heh.
The only reason I have an iPhone is:
Daughter had an iPhone.
Lost it one day, and she thought it got stolen where she works.
4 weeks after we replaced her iPhone, somebody at work found it, at the bottom of a box that had been full of bags of chips.
So we ended up with 2 iPhones, and too late to return one of them.
So I now have an iPhone.
I almost tossed it out the window because it took forever to update my itunes, and then reset her phone to take all her "stuff" off of it.
But it's OK now and I'm liking it, so far.

471 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:47:26pm

re: #466 Occasional Reader

Will you hate me for saying that there are rumors the third generation iPhone will be coming out next month?

Yes.

472 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:47:49pm

Chris Matthews is so brainwashed pc, referring to God as "He or She" (I don't think he meant to be punny when he followed that designation with "...to be broad-minded.")

473 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:48:09pm

re: #468 Cato the Elder

iPhone rocks. As for that specific question: I've had that happen viewing LGF on my iMac running Firefox. It's always been a temporary glitch. Maybe the same for mini-Safari on iPhone?

Try powering down and back up, and see if that helps.

OK, good idea.
Whenever there's a glitch, "re-boot" should be the first thing to try, I guess.

474 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:48:36pm

re: #466 Occasional Reader

Will you hate me for saying that there are rumors the third generation iPhone will be coming out next month?

If Reine is like me, she won't. The current generation is proven, and you can get 'em refurbed for cheap. I'll go for the next level when it costs 99 bucks, not before.

475 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:48:50pm

Tancredo you bozo, Tiktaalik is just the latest transitional fossil. Science isn't a frickin popularity contest.

Chris: You idiot: You are letting "no speciation" pass totally unchallenged.

476 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:49:00pm

Any one have Fjordman's email address. Some one I know needs it.

477 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:49:11pm

re: #471 reine.de.tout

Yes.

See my #474.

478 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:49:49pm

re: #472 solomonpanting

Chris Matthews is so brainwashed pc, referring to God as "He or She" (I don't think he meant to be punny when he followed that designation with "...to be broad-minded.")

Father Andrew Greeley doesn't bother with that nonsense, he just says 'she' and is done with it.

479 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:49:59pm

re: #476 Walter L. Newton

Any one have Fjordman's email address. Some one I know needs it.

If the baron knows, Fjordman knows.

480 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:50:09pm

re: #474 Cato the Elder

If Reine is like me, she won't. The current generation is proven, and you can get 'em refurbed for cheap. I'll go for the next level when it costs 99 bucks, not before.

This one will be fine for me.
I'm at an age where I'm just plum tired of having to try to figure out new stuff.

481 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:50:18pm

re: #474 Cato the Elder

If Reine is like me, she won't. The current generation is proven, and you can get 'em refurbed for cheap. I'll go for the next level when it costs 99 bucks, not before.

Mine is first gen, but I am starting to jones for 1) more memory, 2) 3G speed when no wifi available, and 3) GPS, and all the fun apps related to GPS.

482 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:51:05pm

re: #479 Thanos

If the baron knows, Fjordman knows.

Ok, it seems every time I click my mouse, a link to this article gets emailed to someone. It must be a bug in Microsoft Windows XP. Funny about that?

483 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:51:16pm

re: #467 Walter L. Newton

He might still be trying to figure out why his A-historical game got rejected at the starting line yesterday.

Never lead with your face in a chainsaw fight.

EXPER
TEASE,
R

484 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:51:18pm

re: #465 Sharmuta

I really don't care how a person worships whatever deity they wish to subscribe to so long as they're not involved with harming others. When a religion starts infringing on the rights of others, in this country, we're going to have issues.

As for the extremists and moderates in islam... the moderates need to speak up. I think it's difficult enough for them with the islamists calling them apostates worthy of death and so-called anti-jihadists calling them apostates too.

Moderate Muslims are at a significant disadvantage vis a vis the extremists, who by their very nature are more volatile.
The extremists are awash in money, including Saudi, so they can take over a Mosque.
Add to that a big safety issue, moderates are not likely to do violence to an extremist , but the inverse is not true.

485 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:51:43pm

re: #454 Charles


Matthews is nearly as ignorant as Tancredo.

Matthews is clearly not a scientist... and I certainly expect most of the comments around the right-wing blogosphere to be about him, as indeed happened on the HotAir thread yesterday...

Yet comparatively, Matthews is coming off much better here than Tancredo. I get the feeling that Tancredo is just remembering talking points handed to him (by the DI?) during his various election campaigns.

486 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:51:58pm

re: #470 reine.de.tout

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

487 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:52:02pm

re: #473 reine.de.tout

OK, good idea.
Whenever there's a glitch, "re-boot" should be the first thing to try, I guess.

If the power-down doesn't work, there's reset: harmless, but takes a little longer. Hold down both the home and the sleep (on/off) buttons at once; ignore the slider bar that offers to power off; wait until the Apple screen appears; phone resets itself and starts up again. Nothing gets lost or changed.

Worked for me when part of the touch screen stopped responding.

488 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:52:26pm

re: #481 Occasional Reader

Mine is first gen, but I am starting to jones for 1) more memory, 2) 3G speed when no wifi available, and 3) GPS, and all the fun apps related to GPS.

Yes, it's got some neat stuff.
There's a hurricane tracker, if there is a hurricane I can find out exactly how far it is from my house.
For where I live, I'm gonna love that.

There's also one called "Take me to my Car", that you can use to set your location in a parking lot and then get back to your car. This one, I really need.

My hubby is convinced all the new "stuff" is making people stupid.

489 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:52:46pm

flipflop BO...what a guy

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

490 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:52:53pm

re: #483 Render

He might still be trying to figure out why his A-historical game got rejected at the starting line yesterday.

Never lead with your face in a chainsaw fight.

EXPER
TEASE,
R

Thanks for the reply, I think. I really have no idea what your comment is about. A bit cryptic, or I'm just dense, which is usually the case.

491 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:53:18pm

re: #484 opnion

Moderate Muslims are at a significant disadvantage vis a vis the extremists, who by their very nature are more volatile.
The extremists are awash in money, including Saudi, so they can take over a Mosque.
Add to that a big safety issue, moderates are not likely to do violence to an extremist , but the inverse is not true.

Also, I would point out that moderate Muslims do run into peculiar roadblocks--I would point to the lady Muslim scholar who wrote an article about how she believed wearing the hijab was optional, only to be told by Robert Spencer, of all people, that she did not understand Islam.

Some folks will do anything not to have to take 'yes' for an answer.

492 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:53:18pm

re: #479 Thanos

If Fjordman knows, Paul Belien knows.

WILD
GUESSING,
R

493 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:53:22pm

re: #482 Walter L. Newton

Ok, it seems every time I click my mouse, a link to this article gets emailed to someone. It must be a bug in Microsoft Windows XP. Funny about that?

Yeah but poor Bruce is going to catch enough ire over this, making sure the trolls assault all at once maybe isn't a good idea. On the other hand maybe it is so he can see how tied at each other's hips they are.

494 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:53:26pm

anybody see the Discovery Institute on with Steve Doocey this morning ( FNC morning show)? about 830 AM eastern

No tough questions. It was a total PR puff piece for the DI.

495 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:53:33pm

re: #476 Walter L. Newton

You dit shisturber!

496 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:54:45pm

re: #478 SanFranciscoZionist

Father Andrew Greeley doesn't bother with that nonsense, he just says 'she' and is done with it.

How comfortable to be so self-assured!

497 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:55:01pm

re: #491 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, I would point out that moderate Muslims do run into peculiar roadblocks--I would point to the lady Muslim scholar who wrote an article about how she believed wearing the hijab was optional, only to be told by Robert Spencer, of all people, that she did not understand Islam.

Some folks will do anything not to have to take 'yes' for an answer.


She probably didn't need Spensers opinion, but her Imam would probably share it.

498 opnion  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:55:28pm

See ya

499 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:55:33pm

Geert Wilders, check your inbox, incoming.

Dank U wel!

500 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:56:00pm

re: #496 solomonpanting

How comfortable to be so self-assured!

Would you say that of someone who said 'he'? If not, why not?

501 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:56:39pm

re: #495 Kenneth

You dit shisturber!

A message from Geert contact form...

Hartelijk bedankt voor uw interesse.
Uw bericht is doorgestuurd naar Geert Wilders

502 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:56:51pm

re: #417 opnion

It's apples and oranges. Magna Carta was brought on by King John, possibly the worst ruler in the history of the Norman Kings of England. If you read the document, it's a laundry list of John's abuses of his Barons, including outright expropriation of their property. I'll find you a link to Magna Carta at the British Library.

The document is an agreement by the Crown to respect the longstanding rights of the Barons. It was important as the first successful rebellion against tyrannical and abusive royal power in the history of England after the Norman Conquest.

The Protestant-Catholic conflict came centuries later. Without defendingany specific Protestant ruler, I'd argue that modern republican government arose largely out of the forms of governance of the Protestant churches.

503 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:57:07pm

re: #495 Kenneth

You dit shisturber!

Vas es goodt.

504 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:57:16pm

re: #488 reine.de.tout

There's also one called "Take me to my Car", that you can use to set your location in a parking lot and then get back to your car. This one, I really need.

It should certainly save you money on bread crumbs.

Now, as Maria von Trapp almost sang, these are a few of my favorite apps:

-Pandora (internet self-designed radio)
-Shazam (music recognition)
-Vlingo (voice recogntion)
-Google Earth
-Bloomberg
-Recorder
-WunderRadio (streaming radio from all over the world)
-Easy Wi-Fi (one touch to hook up to AT&T wifi in Starbucks, McDonald's, etc.)
-Classics
-The Weather Channel

505 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:57:34pm

re: #497 opnion

She probably didn't need Spensers opinion, but her Imam would probably share it.

Ah, I suppose it depends where she davens. My point, though, is that if we want moderates to speak out, people will have to be prepared to take them seriously.

I was really just amused by the exchange.

506 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:57:37pm
507 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:57:38pm

re: #454 Charles

Too bad. Tancredo has gone mad.

508 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:58:07pm

re: #454 Charles

Chris Matthews interviews Tom Tacredo, who spews nonstop Discovery Institute talking points and then says he wants ID taught in schools.


[Video]

Matthews is nearly as ignorant as Tancredo.

This is what we're up against. Surrounded by ignoramuses of all stripes. I feel like I'm suffocating on stupidity!

Matthews' "acceptance" of evolution is just as non-fact-based as Tancredo's rejection of it. Both have positions based entirely on political posturing, not on knowledge.

Matthews happens to be correct on this particular point, but that is only by accident. He has no more of a clue than Tancredo.

509 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:58:30pm

re: #500 SanFranciscoZionist

Would you say that of someone who said 'he'? If not, why not?

Guess I'm just a traditionalist. There may have been references to She over time, but I heard none until the 1970's feminism movement was in full swing.

510 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:58:56pm

re: #456 HelloDare

A sweet marketing scam, designed to part the terminally stupid from their money.

511 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 3:59:52pm

re: #508 zombie

This is what we're up against. Surrounded by ignoramuses of all stripes. I feel like I'm suffocating on stupidity!

Matthews' "acceptance" of evolution is just as non-fact-based as Tancredo's rejection of it. Both have positions based entirely on political posturing, not on knowledge.

Matthews happens to be correct on this particular point, but that is only by accident. He has no more of a clue than Tancredo.

Worth repeating. A thousand updings!

512 brookly red  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:01:38pm

re: #507 quickjustice

Too bad. Tancredo has gone mad.

I used to really like him, but in retrospect he may have been mad for a long time & it is just starting to show. Too bad is right.

513 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:01:41pm

re: #509 solomonpanting

Guess I'm just a traditionalist. There may have been references to She over time, but I heard none until the 1970's feminism movement was in full swing.

Since either is obviously inaccurate--God can't possibly have gender in the sense that people do--I sometimes like to use the feminine.

I do agree that 'he or she' is even sillier than 'he' or 'she', since it does imply that it's one or the other and we just don't know which.

514 Render  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:02:16pm

re: #490 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, that was more cryptic then usual, wasn't it? Eating deviled eggs whilst posting.

Bostom and Spencer meet the Chainsaws and suffer accordingly...

[Link: www.solomonia.com...]

TYRANT
OF THE
AIRWAVES,
R

515 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:02:17pm

re: #500 SanFranciscoZionist

Would you say that of someone who said 'he'? If not, why not?

Indeed. I always find the argument about assigning gender to an allegedly omnipresent, incorporeal being to be more than a little odd.

516 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:04:09pm

Here's the British Library link to Magna Carta, together with background materials and a modern translation from the original Latin for those of you not fluent in the Mother Tongue :-)

[Link: www.bl.uk...]

517 Kenneth  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:04:30pm

re: #515 Occasional Reader

Indeed. I always find the argument about assigning gender to an allegedly omnipresent, incorporeal being to be more than a little odd.

You mean you question whether the Creator of the Universe has a peepee or not?

518 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:05:06pm

re: #515 Occasional Reader

Indeed. I always find the argument about assigning gender to an allegedly omnipresent, incorporeal being to be more than a little odd.

A friend of mine often says "God is both male and female, and God is neither male nor female." I think she's correct. But English is not a language in which you can politely refer to the Creator as an 'it'. Now in some languages you can dodge the gender question entirely.

519 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:07:06pm

re: #518 SanFranciscoZionist

It's more than impolite. "It" is commonly used to refer to the satan, the "accuser" or "adversary".

520 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:08:38pm

re: #519 quickjustice

It's more than impolite. "It" is commonly used to refer to the satan, the "accuser" or "adversary".

Interesting. Didn't know that.

521 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:08:50pm
522 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:10:05pm

re: #521 buzzsawmonkey

G-d has a hidden, uh, gender.

And on that note, I should go home and grade a stack of quizzes on The Great Gatsby.

523 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:10:36pm
524 DEZes  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:13:32pm

re: #523 buzzsawmonkey

"Finest specimens of human molars."

I think you killed a thread.

525 rightymouse  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:14:05pm

re: #521 buzzsawmonkey

G-d has a hidden, uh, gender.

**SPEW**

526 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:14:50pm

re: #489 albusteve

flipflop BO...what a guy

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

You bitched about not getting the pictures fast enough, now he's screwed up by releasing them ? BTW, the promised report will be out this week too, but it's two days late.

527 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:16:28pm

re: #526 avanti

You bitched about not getting the pictures fast enough, now he's screwed up by releasing them ? BTW, the promised report will be out this week too, but it's two days late.

I hold Obama to the very same standard that the media held President Bush to. Everything he does, sucks.

528 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:17:12pm

re: #526 avanti

You bitched about not getting the pictures fast enough, now he's screwed up by releasing them ? BTW, the promised report will be out this week too, but it's two days late.

Well of course Avanti. You know how this game is played. Hell, you taught us all. I always give credit where credit is due. You're the best.

529 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:17:20pm

re: #527 LGoPs

I hold Obama to the very same standard that the media held President Bush to. Everything he does, sucks.

You are doing a great job then.

530 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:17:29pm

In case anyone missed today's transcript of Rush Limbaugh... here he is supporting Pence's tap dance routine. Limbaugh ends it with this:

RUSH: I got a note from a friend of mine, and it's well worth mentioning here, talking about settled science, something to throw back at Chris Matthews. Hey, Chris, the American Psychiatric Association once classified homosexuality as a neurosis. Was that settled science? Did you believe them, Chris, when scientists came out, the American Psychiatric Association, a bunch of scientists, classified homosexuality as a neurosis? Was that settled science for you, Chris?

The future of American politics....

531 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:17:59pm

re: #529 avanti

You are doing a great job then.

Happy to oblige.

532 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:18:08pm

re: #488 reine.de.tout

Yes, it's got some neat stuff.
There's a hurricane tracker, if there is a hurricane I can find out exactly how far it is from my house.
For where I live, I'm gonna love that.

There's also one called "Take me to my Car", that you can use to set your location in a parking lot and then get back to your car. This one, I really need.

My hubby is convinced all the new "stuff" is making people stupid.

Favorite paid apps:

1. American Heritage Dictionary, 4th edition, complete (with audio pronunciation). Can be had in combo with Roget's Thesaurus.

2. Olive Tree Bible Reader (app itself is free, but some of the versions cost money, including the complete NAB with footnotes).

3. Star Walk, a real-time, GPS-based planetarium with time machine (you can go back to see Halley's comet whenever you feel like it), constellations, moon phases and detailed astronomical info.

4. NYT Crossword Puzzle from Magmic, delivered wirelessly every day, plus an archive of thousands of past puzzles, downloadable on demand (this one is $10 per year).

5. fxChange, foreign currency exchange calculator based on actual daily rates.

6. iCharity, a virtual tzedakah box for when you're feeling generous (honor system, you have to actually donate the money in meatspace).

Freebies:

1. Facebook.

2. TwitterFon.

3. Google (with speech recognition that works!).

4. iTehillim.

5. iQuran.

6. Glaurung chess.

7. YPmobile (GPS-based Yellow Pages with ratings). I found a place 0.7 miles away to do an emergency picture-framing job for my mother's birthday party on Monday.

8. Skype (haven't used it yet).

9. FBI most wanted list.

10. Kindle for iPhone.

and not least

11. FakeCaller: unobtrusively start up this app, set number of minutes you want (or can stand) to hang in there, and wait for a fake call from "sorry, I've gotta get this". Instant rescue from bores and social pariahs! Used it for the first time today to get rid of a whiny, neurotic clinger.

533 itellu3times  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:18:15pm

A small comment here (all I have time for), is that Charles is right, in that dealing with the kooks is a loosing proposition, and I am awed and admiring of the position he champions here on LGF.

But, I understand how some of the others have fallen to the dark side. What I am mystified by is that SO MANY have fallen, and in particular at one or two that we would not have expected, from the perspective of a year or three ago.

I guess it's true, rust never sleeps.

534 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:20:23pm

re: #526 avanti

You bitched about not getting the pictures fast enough, now he's screwed up by releasing them ? BTW, the promised report will be out this week too, but it's two days late.

I didn't say he screwed up....get some new glasses

535 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:23:39pm

re: #534 albusteve

I didn't say he screwed up....get some new glasses

Ah, "flipflop BO...what a guy" was a compliment, my apologies. Need a unicorn :)

536 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:23:41pm

re: #489 albusteve

flipflop BO...what a guy

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

It should be a cool picture, but I'll bet they left the lens cap on.

537 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:25:22pm

re: #523 buzzsawmonkey

"Finest specimens of human molars."

Ahh, Wolfsheim.

538 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:25:22pm

re: #536 Ward Cleaver

It should be a cool picture, but I'll bet they left the lens cap on.

No, the Air force guys know what they are doing.

539 Afton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:25:39pm

Considering that Bawer is really getting to the bottom of where the anti-Jihad in Europe is coming from, I find it interesting to note where Mr. Bawer's mindset comes from. Sounds like an anti-religious kook to me - Mr. Bawer seems to have discovered the secret in Europe....it's those doggone Christians again!

From The Guardian piece called Anglicans in America by Bruce Bawer:

I can't pretend to write objectively about these matters. I'm a gay man who - having counted myself lucky to have grown up in a non-religious household in New York - became an active Episcopalian in my early 30s. No, I hadn't been "born again." I'd been seduced by Anglicanism, which - in a religious landscape dominated by self-righteous, bible-thumping preachers of hypocritical "family values" and the prosperity gospel - approached the mystery of life in a way that not only made sense to me but spoke to me deeply.

540 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:26:38pm

re: #535 avanti

Ah, "flipflop BO...what a guy" was a compliment, my apologies. Need a unicorn :)

look Gerber Baby...it's plain from the discussion this morning the whole incident and it's implications went over your head....it's nothing short of idiotic for you to continue this thing...but then attention is more important to you than substance...go change your diaper

541 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:27:03pm

re: #536 Ward Cleaver

It should be a cool picture, but I'll bet they left the lens cap on.

well duh!....redo!

542 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:27:18pm

re: #526 avanti

You bitched about not getting the pictures fast enough, now he's screwed up by releasing them ? BTW, the promised report will be out this week too, but it's two days late.

I don't know who came up the the figure of $328,835, but I'd expect the loss of production in NYC was gigantic.

543 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:27:36pm
544 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:28:28pm

re: #539 Afton

Considering that Bawer is really getting to the bottom of where the anti-Jihad in Europe is coming from, I find it interesting to note where Mr. Bawer's mindset comes from. Sounds like an anti-religious kook to me - Mr. Bawer seems to have discovered the secret in Europe....it's those doggone Christians again!

From The Guardian piece called Anglicans in America by Bruce Bawer:

Now, what does his religious views have to do with fascist, racist European nationalist group? If he was an atheist, how would that diminish what he discussed in his article.

Enquiring minds want to know?

545 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:28:31pm

re: #543 buzzsawmonkey

Didn't Fitzgerald spell it "Wolfshiem?" I remember thinking it looked odd when I read the book--and noticing, some years back, the same "ie" inversion in the dedication on a lectern cover.

From memory; I recall, reading it the first time, thinking to myself that those would be very interesting cufflinks, but I was pretty sure that they'd require a lot of looking after to keep them pearly white.

546 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:28:45pm

re: #535 avanti

Ah, "flipflop BO...what a guy" was a compliment, my apologies. Need a unicorn :)

Something smells here.........Oh, I've got it........it's just some bad BO.

547 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:29:26pm
548 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:29:37pm

re: #543 buzzsawmonkey

Didn't Fitzgerald spell it "Wolfshiem?" I remember thinking it looked odd when I read the book--and noticing, some years back, the same "ie" inversion in the dedication on a lectern cover.

As for the funny spelling, my family shook off its Yiddish name by adopting a pseudo-Celtic homonym. There's just no telling.

549 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:29:57pm

re: #539 Afton

Gee, it took over 500 comments before one of this jerks showed up. That must be a record.

550 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:30:07pm

re: #547 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe he should have just mounted them...on a plaque.

Come on, monkey, let's not got off-Topol.

551 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:30:13pm

re: #542 debutaunt

I don't know who came up the the figure of $328,835, but I'd expect the loss of production in NYC was gigantic.

Yep, it was a screw up, don't be surprised if the WH travel guy is fired if he was responsible.

552 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:30:39pm

re: #539 Afton

Go find a rope to piss up.

553 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:31:03pm
554 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:31:35pm

re: #551 avanti

Yep, it was a screw up, don't be surprised if the WH travel guy is fired if he was responsible.

the "travel guy"?.....good one

555 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:31:53pm

re: #548 Guanxi88

As for the funny spelling, my family shook off its Yiddish name by adopting a pseudo-Celtic homonym. There's just no telling.

That's a very un-PC word. Maybe a more appropriate word would be gaynym.....?

556 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:32:30pm

re: #554 albusteve

the "travel guy"?.....good one

Uh huh - travelguygate.

557 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:32:32pm
558 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:33:27pm

re: #553 buzzsawmonkey

That's patina, my friend. In a well-advertised auction, I would have no hesitation in saying that they would bring, oh, $2500--more, if you can provide the provenance you've discussed.

/Antiques Roadshow off

I used to be in the antique furniture business, albeit in repairs and restorations, and I recall the look of horror on one guy's face when we told him his mahogany side-table was not the antiquity he took it to be (there were obvious signs of comparatively recent manufacture. It was well-made, but was not Georgian, as he thought.).

He invoked the patina, which we pointed out was in fact the accumulation of probably twenty or more years' worth of cigarette smoke.

559 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:33:34pm

re: #554 albusteve

the "travel guy"?.....good one

I forgot his fancy title. Military liaison officer or what ever.

560 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:33:34pm

re: #548 Guanxi88

As for the funny spelling, my family shook off its Yiddish name by adopting a pseudo-Celtic homonym. There's just no telling.

Yes, is that the Northern Mongolian Guanxi Celtics.

561 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:33:35pm

re: #556 debutaunt

Uh huh - travelguygate.

the travel guy!

562 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:34:03pm
563 Simply Me  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:34:45pm

re: #58 zombie

I wish I lived in that kind of environment. I go to all sorts of parties/barbecues/get-togethers, but jovial all-inclusiveness is never on the menu. Sometimes, to test the waters, I'll make some snarky "counter-intuitive" joke about with an inherent ciriticism of Obama or any number of far-left canards -- and the room will fall silent, accompanied by cold stares. There is just no tolerance for any non-far-left viewpoint, even as a joke. Everything is happy and hunky-dory, but there is a scary Brave New World-ish regimentation to the weltanschauung here in zombieland.


Exactly! I went for a walk this morning with a woman who is one of the other Republicans in Berkeley and it was just so good to be able to express our opinions without fear of social ostracism. (You all would really like her. She is more on the libertarian side than me.)

564 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:35:02pm
565 Digital Display  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:35:05pm

re: #551 avanti

Yep, it was a screw up, don't be surprised if the WH travel guy is fired if he was responsible.

I'm thinking travel agent in the White House during a Dem Admin is never a great career choice..Never works out..Ask Hillary..

566 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:36:32pm

re: #563 Simply Me

Exactly! I went for a walk this morning with a woman who is one of the other Republicans in Berkeley and it was just so good to be able to express our opinions without fear of social ostracism. (You all would really like her. She is more on the libertarian side than me.)

You should demand coverage under the Endangered Species Act.

567 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:36:37pm

re: #564 buzzsawmonkey

Everybody likes furniture with a fine Cuban polish.

By way of using Castro oil?

568 Afton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:36:41pm

re: #552 Cato the Elder

Go find a rope to piss up.

What? I don't understand why you'd be upset about someone just checking out the background of an author that isn't known to that person. Just curious who the guy is. Why he is against islamofascism, why he's saying the things he is - I've never been one to just accept something at face value.

Let's face it, if I were to judge you by your first interaction here with me, I'd probably deem you to be a 12 yr old boy with hormonal issues and that certainly isn't true.

569 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:36:50pm

re: #560 Walter L. Newton

Yes, is that the Northern Mongolian Guanxi Celtics.

Funny you should say that; there's a fascinating documentary "L'chaim, Comrade Stalin," all about the lovable dictator's efforts to create a Jewish homeland in the USSR. And where did he put it? Right by Mongolia.

570 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:37:34pm
571 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:37:52pm

re: #564 buzzsawmonkey

Everybody likes furniture with a fine Cuban polish.

I didn't realize any Poles had emigrated to Cuba.
Learn something new every day.....
:)

572 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:38:16pm

re: #570 buzzsawmonkey

Bzerbijan, or something like that, IIRC.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yep. Talk about weird.

573 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:39:08pm

re: #571 LGoPs

I didn't realize any Poles had emigrated to Cuba.
Learn something new every day.....
:)


these guys are on the move too

[Link: business.maktoob.com...]

574 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:40:55pm

re: #565 HoosierHoops

I'm thinking travel agent in the White House during a Dem Admin is never a great career choice..Never works out..Ask Hillary..

Yea, my bad, it was the "White House military office director" Louis Caldera He is the potential bus target.

575 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:40:57pm

re: #568 Afton

Geh kakn oyfn yam.

576 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:41:40pm

re: #573 albusteve

these guys are on the move too

[Link: business.maktoob.com...]

I heard that the hotel band will include musicians playing electric qatars.......

*Badaboom*

577 yesandno  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:42:01pm

re: #533 itellu3times

A small comment here (all I have time for), is that Charles is right, in that dealing with the kooks is a loosing proposition, and I am awed and admiring of the position he champions here on LGF.

But, I understand how some of the others have fallen to the dark side. What I am mystified by is that SO MANY have fallen, and in particular at one or two that we would not have expected, from the perspective of a year or three ago.

I guess it's true, rust never sleeps.

Because you fear most, that which is familiar and fear less, that which you know not of.

Eventually, however, the tide comes in.....and even that will not wash off the stink of bedding with the devil.

578 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:42:44pm

re: #574 avanti

Yea, my bad, it was the "White House military office director" Louis Caldera He is the potential bus target.

There's a volcanic explosion building up under this Caldera.......

579 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:42:56pm

re: #571 LGoPs

I didn't realize any Poles had emigrated to Cuba.
Learn something new every day.....
:)

I had a great uncle from the Netherlands who ended up in Shanghai during WWII, only to be captured by the Japanese, interred for the duration of the war in the home islands, and, upon release, emigrate to the Republic of South Africa.

580 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:43:33pm

re: #545 Guanxi88

From memory; I recall, reading it the first time, thinking to myself that those would be very interesting cufflinks, but I was pretty sure that they'd require a lot of looking after to keep them pearly white.

I knew a girl who gave her BF a pendant made of her recently removed impacted wisdom teeth.

She wondered why he didn't appreciate the gift. Then she wondered why he dumped her.

581 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:43:49pm
582 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:43:58pm

re: #568 Afton

What? I don't understand why you'd be upset about someone just checking out the background of an author that isn't known to that person. Just curious who the guy is. Why he is against islamofascism, why he's saying the things he is - I've never been one to just accept something at face value.

Let's face it, if I were to judge you by your first interaction here with me, I'd probably deem you to be a 12 yr old boy with hormonal issues and that certainly isn't true.

you can read this thread to find out who the guy is...did you?....the rest of this post is childish bullshit

583 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:44:58pm

re: #580 Cato the Elder

I knew a girl who gave her BF a pendant made of her recently removed impacted wisdom teeth.

She wondered why he didn't appreciate the gift. Then she wondered why he dumped her.

Lemme go on record here for the benfit of the younger lizards: If anyone you know, or even anyone you don't know, offers you a keepsake or memento made from any part of their bodies, walk, don't run, away. Running will stir the bloodlust in an obviously deranged person.

584 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:45:06pm

Pardon me if this has already been covered. Snarlin' Arlen made a deal with the Dems and was double-crossed. He had no idea.

585 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:46:30pm

re: #581 buzzsawmonkey

Thinking about "paynim," upthread (haven't thought of that word in years), it occurs to me that it is a near-perfect cognate for the Hebrew "panim" (usually pronounced "punim" with an Ashkenazi accent) which means "face."

Which suggests that the Arabic--or Hebrew--word for "face" was adopted by the Crusaders to refer, perhaps, to those of darker skin or different physiognomy.

Interesting. Hey Buzz. What is the derivation of the word Ashkenazi? I remember that word from the neighborhood where I grew up in Chicago but have forgotten what it refers to. Is it a geographical area that Jews came from or were associated with?

586 Digital Display  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:46:57pm

re: #574 avanti

Yea, my bad, it was the "White House military office director" Louis Caldera He is the potential bus target.

Well..We can always look on the bright side..
It could have been AF1 buzzing NY while President Edwards gets a 1000 dollar haircut...And believe it not..and we were this close..The video would have been produced by his Mistress..

587 Altermite  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:47:17pm

re: #583 Guanxi88

Lemme go on record here for the benfit of the younger lizards: If anyone you know, or even anyone you don't know, offers you a keepsake or memento made from any part of their bodies, walk, don't run, away. Running will stir the bloodlust in an obviously deranged person.

Better than a memento made from you.

588 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:47:27pm

re: #584 BatGuano

Pardon me if this has already been covered. Snarlin' Arlen made a deal with the Dems and was double-crossed. He had no idea.

I love it. He deserved no better.
Batsard (yes, batsard)

589 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:48:02pm

re: #570 buzzsawmonkey

Bzerbijan, or something like that, IIRC.

Birobidjan

590 Altermite  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:48:25pm

re: #585 LGoPs

Interesting. Hey Buzz. What is the derivation of the word Ashkenazi? I remember that word from the neighborhood where I grew up in Chicago but have forgotten what it refers to. Is it a geographical area that Jews came from or were associated with?

Personally, I don't know wha tthe word itself means, but it has to do with a geographic region- europeans, especially eastern european jews.

591 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:48:47pm

I'm surprised I have not posted some tunes

592 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:48:48pm

re: #583 Guanxi88

Lemme go on record here for the benfit of the younger lizards: If anyone you know, or even anyone you don't know, offers you a keepsake or memento made from any part of their bodies, walk, don't run, away. Running will stir the bloodlust in an obviously deranged person.

I don't agree. Many sane and stable people collect remains of their loved ones all the time, ever hear of cremation?

593 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:48:58pm

re: #539 Afton

And just what, pray, do you find to be "anti-Christian" in that article?

Twt.

594 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:49:44pm

re: #568 Afton

What? I don't understand why you'd be upset about someone just checking out the background of an author that isn't known to that person. Just curious who the guy is. Why he is against islamofascism, why he's saying the things he is - I've never been one to just accept something at face value.

Let's face it, if I were to judge you by your first interaction here with me, I'd probably deem you to be a 12 yr old boy with hormonal issues and that certainly isn't true.

You don't even have any idea who Cato the Elder is (in real life). If you did, you would be hiding after that shitty-assed comment of yours.

Git, leave, bye bye.

595 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:49:53pm
596 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:50:40pm

Clapton

597 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:50:52pm

re: #593 Cato the Elder

And just what, pray, do you find to be "anti-Christian" in that article?

Twt.

I pointed that out to him WAY above in this thread, and he never even answered, which makes it obvious that he has nothing intelligent to say, he's just trying to stir the pot with stupid comments.

598 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:51:01pm
599 neocon hippie  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:51:18pm

re: #563 Simply Me

Did I read correctly that there's another lizard here in Berserkeley?

600 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:51:35pm

re: #596 albusteve

Clapton

Clap

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

601 debutaunt  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:51:56pm

re: #599 neocon hippie

Did I read correctly that there's another lizard here in Berserkeley?

Cal.

602 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:52:04pm

re: #598 buzzsawmonkey

The price of betrayal has gone up. It used to be 30 pieces of silver.

603 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:52:59pm

re: #592 Walter L. Newton

I don't agree. Many sane and stable people collect remains of their loved ones all the time, ever hear of cremation?

That's different. I'm thinking more along the lines of "See how much I love you? I carved off the tip of my pinky finger and made it into a wine stopper, so every time you pour a drink, you can think of me."

The cremated remains of a loved one, those are sacred relics.

604 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:53:03pm
605 Digital Display  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:53:12pm

re: #568 Afton

I don't believe you just said that..That was Rude...

606 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:53:43pm

Charles, you really have taken up resident in the kooks' minds. One of the folks who left comments on Andrew Sullivan's article says:

Be careful out there. Re-visiting LGF can be hazardous to your PC, if you've ever been banned there or said anything Chas doesn't like elsewhere using your LGF handle. Chas will assault it with some particularly nasty malware, etc.

Having such delusions of inadequacy so bad that they believe Charles does nothing but stalk the stalkers is pathological.

607 Simply Me  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:53:54pm

re: #134 Ward Cleaver

Oh, you mean the blue book.

/otoh, look at what 13% of them also buy


That's amazing!

608 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:54:23pm

re: #606 FurryOldGuyJeans

Charles, you really have taken up resident in the kooks' minds. One of the folks who left comments on Andrew Sullivan's article says:

Having such delusions of inadequacy adequacy so bad that they believe Charles does nothing but stalk the stalkers is pathological.

609 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:54:38pm
610 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:55:24pm

re: #596 albusteve

Post Clapton: Easy upding from me.
:)

611 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:55:25pm

I'm late to the party, but what an insightful post.

612 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:55:36pm

re: #598 buzzsawmonkey

No surprise. A turncoat is never trusted, because the person who can be false to one can be false to two.

*See Vincent Pastore

613 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:55:45pm

re: #609 buzzsawmonkey

It was fashionable in Victorian times to make hair jewelry from the hair of a departed. I've seen mourning brooches with hair woven in fine checkerboards, and watchchains made of braided hair, among other things.

I've heard of such things, myself. They strike me as very odd, almost like a secularized version of the cult of the relics of the saints.

Much as I miss my departed family, I would not wish to have some remnant of their physical body with me after their death.

614 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:55:51pm

re: #539 Afton

Either you didn't read the article or intentionally misrepesented it. Bawer's argument in that article is to salvage the Anglican church from the hold of its current leadership. He provides examples and ideas to that end. You don't even understand the quote that you posted. He says of Anglicanism:

I'd been seduced by Anglicanism, which - in a religious landscape dominated by self-righteous, bible-thumping preachers of hypocritical "family values" and the prosperity gospel - approached the mystery of life in a way that not only made sense to me but spoke to me deeply.

Let alone the title:

Anglicans in America
In voting to secede from the Episcopal Church, two Virgina parishes have betrayed their Anglican roots and their American heritage.

He ends with:

There's a challenge in all this, however, for liberal Anglican leaders. They must face the fact that they belong to a worldwide communion dominated largely by people who aren't just reactionaries but outright tyrants - people who don't honor the most basic Anglican obligation to treat their opponents with respect and dignity. Instead of bowing to these bullies, as Griswold did at Lambeth, they must stand up for the Anglican tradition. If this means that the liberal Anglican provinces in America, Britain, and elsewhere end up having to leave the Anglican Communion, so be it. Such a schism would be lamentable, but it would be better than selling out human dignity for the sake of a communion that's no longer truly Anglican.

615 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:56:47pm

re: #602 WhiteRasta

The price of betrayal has gone up. It used to be 30 pieces of silver.

/I thought the Priests offered Judas Seniority.

616 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:57:30pm

re: #608 Guanxi88

Change not needed. These people who obsess over Charles don't have even inadequacy, let alone adequacy. Delusions is all they are let with.

617 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:57:32pm

re: #604 buzzsawmonkey

How much is that in clad-coin currency?

That's about 11.907 ounces of silver (based on the standard weight of a Shekel at 11.3 grams). At spot today, a little over 158 dollars.

618 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:57:55pm

OT: Anyone else notice that while swine flu dwindles into yesterday's yawn, the term "pandemic" has entirely disappeared from the discourse?

Talk about crying wolf. They should really wait to trot out that word until there's more than a few hundred cases worldwide.

The panic-mongers wouldn't like that, though.

619 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:57:59pm
620 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:58:20pm

re: #610 BatGuano

Post Clapton: Easy upding from me.
:)

contrast....Delta style

621 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:58:30pm
622 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:59:35pm

re: #613 Guanxi88

I've heard of such things, myself. They strike me as very odd, almost like a secularized version of the cult of the relics of the saints.

Much as I miss my departed family, I would not wish to have some remnant of their physical body with me after their death.

The LifeGem® is a certified, high-quality diamond created from the carbon of your loved one as a memorial to their unique life.

Creepy does not even begin to describe it.

623 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:59:37pm
624 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:59:45pm

re: #621 GhostShip

Just go away, you're not worth debating, and besides, you won't comment back anyway.

625 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 4:59:53pm

re: #618 Cato the Elder

OT: Anyone else notice that while swine flu dwindles into yesterday's yawn, the term "pandemic" has entirely disappeared from the discourse?

Talk about crying wolf. They should really wait to trot out that word until there's more than a few hundred cases worldwide.

The panic-mongers wouldn't like that, though.


With a 24 hour news cycle, you need to make news, not just report it.

626 screaming_eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:00:01pm

re: #617 Walter L. Newton

That's about 11.907 ounces of silver (based on the standard weight of a Shekel at 11.3 grams). At spot today, a little over 158 dollars.

And a Senator earns how much a year? Inflation hits everything, even the cost of bribery.

627 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:00:12pm

Mansions currently burning in Santa Barbara, CA. Wildfires.

Madness.

628 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:00:30pm

re: #621 GhostShip

Well you go hop in bed with the tribal supremacists then slut.

629 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:00:50pm
630 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:01:16pm

re: #623 buzzsawmonkey

I don't get the reference.

"Big Pussy" on the Sopranos.

631 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:01:31pm

re: #621 GhostShip

*sniff-sniff*

Ok, who farted?

632 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:01:46pm
633 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:02:00pm

re: #628 Thanos

Well you go hop in bed with the tribal supremacists then slut.

That's gonna leave a mark.

634 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:02:06pm

re: #629 buzzsawmonkey

Leave a lasting carbon footprint! In round, emerald, marquise or princess cut.

I can just see an "Oceans 11" type heist movie now. "Stealing Granny"

635 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:02:20pm

re: #627 Racer X

Mansions currently burning in Santa Barbara, CA. Wildfires.

Madness.

payback

636 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:02:53pm

Ot -

Hundreds of Colorado Airmen headed to Iraq

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

KOS and far lefty heads exploding.

637 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:03:33pm

re: #618 Cato the Elder

OT: Anyone else notice that while swine flu dwindles into yesterday's yawn, the term "pandemic" has entirely disappeared from the discourse?

Talk about crying wolf. They should really wait to trot out that word until there's more than a few hundred cases worldwide.

The panic-mongers wouldn't like that, though.

Anything to keep the sheep from realizing that the same people who put crap in our food are the ones selling us medicine and supplements.

638 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:03:33pm

re: #618 Cato the Elder

OT: Anyone else notice that while swine flu dwindles into yesterday's yawn, the term "pandemic" has entirely disappeared from the discourse?

Talk about crying wolf. They should really wait to trot out that word until there's more than a few hundred cases worldwide.

The panic-mongers wouldn't like that, though.

The medai are a bunch of lemmings. Remember the ad nauseum overuse of the word gravitas back in Clinton's time. They used it so much I wanted to puke. And people that were functional illiterates would repeat it, with knowing nods.

639 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:03:41pm

re: #620 albusteve

My older brother was a lighting Hopkins fan and I was not sophisticated enough to appreciate him. I have educated myself since the early seventies.
Thanks.

640 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:04:01pm

re: #635 albusteve

payback

Thats a stupid remark.

641 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:04:02pm

re: #622 Alouette

The LifeGem® is a certified, high-quality diamond created from the carbon of your loved one as a memorial to their unique life.

Creepy does not even begin to describe it.

Better than an urn of ash on the mantle that gets knocked over by the cat.

642 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:04:25pm
643 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:04:27pm

re: #640 Racer X

Thats a stupid remark.

why?

644 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:04:34pm

re: #631 FurryOldGuyJeans

*sniff-sniff*

Ok, who farted?

That's probably just the strong BO you're smelling.
/

645 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:04:44pm

re: #621 GhostShip

Bye now. I'm sure you'll find another blog that's sympathetic to your ideas. Take care!

646 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:05:07pm

re: #621 GhostShip

I love these kind of jerks. They don't even realize that they are publicly saying that they don't know shit about shit, but they are going to talk about it anyway.

They must have a teleprompter.

647 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:05:28pm

re: #645 Charles

Bye now. I'm sure you'll find another blog that's sympathetic to your ideas. Take care!

So gracious, you are, O Lizard Emperor, even as you kick them in the ass, you still shake their hand.

648 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:05:40pm

re: #619 buzzsawmonkey

Mourning was a big deal in Victorian times. Large families, primitive medicine, lots of disease. The rules of when one went from black to purple to grey clothing were very strict, and closely observed. And, of course, you still needed jewelry to go with the clothing, so a whole industry of mourning jewelry existed.

.....all the windows closed and the curtains drawn. Black paper and ribbons draped throughout the home. Servants speaking in whispers. Social scene completely derailed for mourners. Straw in the streets outside home to muffle the horses' hooves.

Not so much for the working class, but definitely Society.

649 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:05:47pm

re: #647 Guanxi88

So gracious, you are, O Lizard Emperor, even as you kick them in the ass, you still shake their hand.

Far better than they deserve.

650 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:05:59pm

re: #643 albusteve

why?

Why is it "payback"?

651 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:06:10pm

re: #648 Russkilitlover

.....all the windows closed and the curtains drawn. Black paper and ribbons draped throughout the home. Servants speaking in whispers. Social scene completely derailed for mourners. Straw in the streets outside home to muffle the horses' hooves.

Not so much for the working class, but definitely Society.

Conspicuous consumption, even in death.

652 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:06:24pm

re: #624 Walter L. Newton

Just go away, you're not worth debating, and besides, you won't comment back anyway.

Can't comment back now, Suicide by Stinky.

653 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:07:51pm

re: #643 albusteve

why?

Because it implies they deserve to have their homes burned to the ground and their lives threatened.

You are not saying that are you?

654 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:07:56pm

re: #652 FurryOldGuyJeans

Can't comment back now, Suicide by Stinky.

Dang missed it. Worthwhile or waste of electrons on the innerwebz?

655 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:08:17pm

re: #649 Guanxi88

Far better than they deserve.

That was considerate. Whatever happened to, "Get off my website!"

656 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:08:23pm
657 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:08:41pm

re: #644 LGoPs

That's probably just the strong BO you're smelling.
/

Add some patchouli and we can have some 60's flashbacks!

658 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:08:51pm

re: #650 solomonpanting

Why is it "payback"?

nature reclaiming the land...if you live in an area that is perpetually dry, if you cannot collect water in cisterns to fight fire and save your home, if you insist on building in a dangerous fire zone where you will undoubtably lose everything to fire or landslide...it's payback...

659 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:08:54pm

re: #621 GhostShip

Why do we have to live with them? Rejecting them doesn't weaken my anti-jihad position one iota. In fact, I would argue it strengthens my position. To fight a virtuous battle, you must be virtuous. .

660 Abu Lahab  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:09:10pm

What a great article. Thank you Bruce Bawer. A sane person defending sanity is always a good thing to read.

661 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:09:56pm

re: #653 Racer X

Because it implies they deserve to have their homes burned to the ground and their lives threatened.

You are not saying that are you?

I've been burned in a fire, badly...I would not wish that on anyone

662 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:09:58pm

re: #655 BatGuano

That was considerate. Whatever happened to, "Get off my website!"

See, this shows that the Big Guy had a good upbringing. by me, we'd just toss your worthless ass out the front door (if you were lucky) or out the back door (if we weren't quite finished with you yet).

Charles, though, politely disinvites them, following repeated warnings in many cases; sort of like Jeeves as a bouncer at a really nice club.

663 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:10:42pm
664 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:11:05pm

re: #654 jcm

Dang missed it. Worthwhile or waste of electrons on the innerwebz?

major waste, so really nothing to lose sleep over.

But it was a bit surprising the trolls haven't crawled out from under the rock Bruce kicked over before now and started foaming at the mouth. They must still be hungover or strung out.

665 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:11:34pm

What happened to Robert and Pamela? Not a word out of them about Bruce's article yet. Surely they know about it already!

You don't think they're just planning to ignore it, do you?

666 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:12:01pm

re: #583 Guanxi88

Lemme go on record here for the benfit of the younger lizards: If anyone you know, or even anyone you don't know, offers you a keepsake or memento made from any part of their bodies, walk, don't run, away. Running will stir the bloodlust in an obviously deranged person.

This calls for Tom Lehrer:

I hold your hand in mine
I press it to my lips
I take a healthy bite from
Your dainty fingertips

The day you died I cut it off
I really don't know why
For every time I kiss it
I get bloodstains on my tie

I'm sorry that I killed you
For our love was something fine
Until they come to get me
I'll hold your hand in mine.

667 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:12:06pm

re: #658 albusteve

nature reclaiming the land...if you live in an area that is perpetually dry, if you cannot collect water in cisterns to fight fire and save your home, if you insist on building in a dangerous fire zone where you will undoubtably lose everything to fire or landslide...it's payback...

Man bad, Nature good.

Got it.

668 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:12:56pm

re: #665 Charles

What happened to Robert and Pamela? Not a word out of them about Bruce's article yet. Surely they know about it already!

You don't think they're just planning to ignore it, do you?

They probably don't think the article implicates them in any way.

669 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:13pm

re: #664 FurryOldGuyJeans

major waste, so really nothing to lose sleep over.

But it was a bit surprising the trolls haven't crawled out from under the rock Bruce kicked over before now and started foaming at the mouth. They must still be hungover or strung out.

I think some of them are wising up. Charles runs these "shake&bake" barrages from time to time to try to smoke the little buggers out, and many fall for it and expose themselves to hellacious arty fire. Others, though, stay put, and have to be removed in down-and-dirty house fighting.

670 leereyno  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:16pm

We tend to become like the worst in those we oppose.
-- Frank Herbert

671 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:17pm

re: #665 Charles

What happened to Robert and Pamela? Not a word out of them about Bruce's article yet. Surely they know about it already!

You don't think they're just planning to ignore it, do you?

Now that Solomon's unwittingly opened the gate too wide ( I have faith that he will learn...) they might post over there.

672 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:18pm

This one's gonna' be another DHS memo....

We're being targeted by Big Brother

Canvassers use handheld computers that lock on global positioning system coordinates for a given structure they record. The information is used to update or verify the bureau’s existing list of addresses.

If I have your listed phone number I can get your address, then in Google Earth or any online mapping program get the coordinates, even directions for the directionally impaired.

673 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:36pm

re: #666 Kosh's Shadow

This calls for Tom Lehrer:

I hold your hand in mine
I press it to my lips
I take a healthy bite from
Your dainty fingertips

The day you died I cut it off
I really don't know why
For every time I kiss it
I get bloodstains on my tie

I'm sorry that I killed you
For our love was something fine
Until they come to get me
I'll hold your hand in mine.

Easily one of his most disturbing little ditties.

674 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:41pm

re: #665 Charles

What happened to Robert and Pamela? Not a word out of them about Bruce's article yet. Surely they know about it already!

You don't think they're just planning to ignore it, do you?

Did you forget you sarcasm tag? They know about it. I emailed Robert, Pam, Andrew Bostom, GOV, Geert and some others with a link to this thread.

Wilders says...

Hartelijk bedankt voor uw interesse.
Uw bericht is doorgestuurd naar Geert Wilders

675 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:48pm

re: #666 Kosh's Shadow

I post lyrics from a sick Tom Lehrer song about a guy killing his girlfriend and keeping her hand as a memento, and it gets comment 666. Wow.

676 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:13:59pm

re: #665 Charles

What happened to Robert and Pamela? Not a word out of them about Bruce's article yet. Surely they know about it already!

You don't think they're just planning to ignore it, do you?

my guess is they are doing shots and throwing darts at your face on a target....once they get buzzed enough they will stumble into some sort of response....they read about you getting into "heads"....they are probably just momentarily stunned...when your back is turned they will knife you

677 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:14:30pm

re: #668 Russkilitlover

They probably don't think the article implicates them in any way.

Trust me -- they know who the article is about.

678 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:14:40pm

Has anyone checked Drudge for an Impending Doom headline? I just got a text from the Union Pres at my old job stating he wanted me to know how much he misses me. I wonder if he is drunk...or on morphine or something.

679 Digital Display  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:15:15pm

re: #662 Guanxi88

See, this shows that the Big Guy had a good upbringing. by me, we'd just toss your worthless ass out the front door (if you were lucky) or out the back door (if we weren't quite finished with you yet).

Charles, though, politely disinvites them, following repeated warnings in many cases; sort of like Jeeves as a bouncer at a really nice club.

Charles is nice enough..It's that Stinky..6'7" 255 .. 5.2 in the 40 with 5% body fat.. You just don't mess with Stinky..He will mess you up..LOL

680 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:15:24pm

re: #669 Guanxi88

I think some of them are wising up. Charles runs these "shake&bake" barrages from time to time to try to smoke the little buggers out, and many fall for it and expose themselves to hellacious arty fire. Others, though, stay put, and have to be removed in down-and-dirty house fighting.

But that gets rid of all the interesting trolls and leaves the unappealing ones. BLEH. ;)

681 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:15:40pm

re: #672 jcm

This one's gonna' be another DHS memo....

We're being targeted by Big Brother

If I have your listed phone number I can get your address, then in Google Earth or any online mapping program get the coordinates, even directions for the directionally impaired.

Google maps thinks my house is 1/2 mile or so from where it really is. That'll show them.

682 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:16:12pm

re: #681 Kosh's Shadow

Google maps thinks my house is 1/2 mile or so from where it really is. That'll show them.

Mobile home, eh?

683 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:16:40pm

re: #667 Racer X

Man bad, Nature good.

Got it.

what was their plan for saving these homes in the event of a fire?....do they have water on the property?....a few thousand gallons might have made a difference...I'm not wishing hardship on anybody...if you don't fight back you lose

684 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:16:47pm

re: #658 albusteve

nature reclaiming the land...if you live in an area that is perpetually dry, if you cannot collect water in cisterns to fight fire and save your home, if you insist on building in a dangerous fire zone where you will undoubtably lose everything to fire or landslide...it's payback...

Well, in that case
BURN, BABY, BURN

685 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:16:53pm

re: #681 Kosh's Shadow

Google maps thinks my house is 1/2 mile or so from where it really is. That'll show them.

You can run but you can't hide!

;-P

686 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:17:02pm

re: #665 Charles

They are very busy using their super sleuth powers to find birth certificates that aren't missing.

687 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:17:22pm

re: #672 jcm

I heard recently that if you take a photo with your I-Phone, it geo-tags the GPS co ordinates of where that photo was taken.

College girls posting titty-pictures on the internet, beware.

688 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:18:06pm

re: #684 solomonpanting

Well, in that case
BURN, BABY, BURN

that's exactly what happens

689 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:18:08pm

re: #681 Kosh's Shadow

Google thinks my house is a gas station/bait shop 1/4 mile from my house. Won't THAT be a surprise!

690 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:18:08pm

re: #687 WhiteRasta

I heard recently that if you take a photo with your I-Phone, it geo-tags the GPS co ordinates of where that photo was taken.

College girls posting titty-pictures on the internet, beware.

Geo-tags it where. In the data file of the picture? Explain.

691 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:18:47pm

OT:

Historic Moulin Rouge Burns

LAS VEGAS, Nv. -- Fire crews are cleaning up after a four-alarm blaze at the historic Las Vegas Moulin Rouge. The fire started shortly after 11:30 a.m. When the fire first roared to life, flames and smoke could be seen from around the valley.

The Moulin Rouge, near Bonanza and US-95, opened in 1955 as the first and only integrated casino in Nevada. It was only open for five months. Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Pearl Bailey and Sammy Davis Jr. were among headliners who appeared in the Club Rouge showroom. The hotel made the June 20, 1955 cover of Life magazine.

SLIDESHOW: Fire at the historic Moulin Rouge

"We would all jam and have plenty of fun," said Bob Bailey, Master of Ceremonies at the Moulin Rouge in the 1950's. His wife Anna was one of the club's dancers.

The club made Las Vegas history. "It was the only place were people of various cultures could congregate," said Bob.

It was the only racially integrated hotel in the valley and it played host to the stars. When the Moulin Rouge came to West Las Vegas, it brought new life with it. New homes and businesses sprung up. When the club closed, the neighborhood around it fell on hard times.

There were a number of efforts to reopen the club, but one of the latest was dashed by the fire in 2003 that destroyed the main building. "To see it burn down is the same as to see one of your children getting into trouble," said Bailey.

The fire probably dashed any hope of ever seeing the Moulin Rouge rise from the ashes. The complex has been declared a hazard and has been closed to the public for years. This fire is probably the final blow.

The Moulin Rouge will live on only thru pictures and the iconic signs that were saved and moved to the Neon Boneyard.

In February, a request to tear down the historic building was considered because, according to the Uniform Code of Dangerous Buildings, the Moulin Rouge was considered to be a public nuisance. That same month, the owners filed for bankruptcy even though there was still talk of redeveloping the property.

The long-closed property has had a string of owners and renovation plans and has long been a focus of preservationists.

692 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:18:47pm

re: #673 Guanxi88

I dunno. "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" was another of Lehrer's deeply disturbing songs. And there's the immortal Lehrer song whose title escapes me:

"About a young maid I'll sing a song,
sing hickory dickory ding,
about a young maid I'll sing a song,
who didn't have her family long.
Not only did she do them wrong--
she did every one of them in."

693 Dr. Shalit  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:19:12pm

OK All Lizardim -

NAZIS "be" NAZIS, STALIN "been" STALIN. Either might be great allies during a War For THEIR Survival. After that... That is all.

-S-

694 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:19:46pm

re: #672 jcm

This one's gonna' be another DHS memo....

We're being targeted by Big Brother

AJ has some whacked out CT's about this. SWAT teams working with ACORN, zip codes for artillery......
Might make it to Fox News.
/sarc maybe.

695 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:19:49pm

re: #372 Occasional Reader

It's a very nasty and unsettling area to get into. Of course, there ARE repeated IQ (and other intelligence test) patterns across races and ethnicities that can be derived thorough statistical analysis (see, e.g., John McWhorter); but what that information MEANS is the big question.

Blacks have been playing catchup since around the 1950s-60s when it was still OK to ignore them in public life, exclude them and limit their chances for advancement in education & careers. Children of 1st gen wealth score higher on IQ tests than their parents.

I think there might be something there.

696 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:19:49pm

re: #687 WhiteRasta

I heard recently that if you take a photo with your I-Phone, it geo-tags the GPS co ordinates of where that photo was taken.

Yes, it does. The GPS info is stored in the EXIF metatags -- if you load the pictures into iPhoto, you can see where they were taken.

697 Dr. Shalit  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:20:16pm

re: #665 Charles

What happened to Robert and Pamela? Not a word out of them about Bruce's article yet. Surely they know about it already!

You don't think they're just planning to ignore it, do you?

Charles-

Only if they HAVE to remain silent. That is all.

-S-

698 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:20:25pm

re: #691 gmsc

Scared me for a moment. I thought this was going to be the one in Paris. Not that the one in Paris is much of anything anymore. Just a over priced nightclub that has barely anything to do with the original.

699 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:20:47pm

OT

Dick Morris is saying Obama's liberal agenda will either fail or succeed. The job of the GOP is to be there when the liberal agenda fails. [that's kinda passive advice from the great Triangulator, as he just called himself]

Morris says the GOP must just offer an alternative so when all the liberal programs are passed and the economy nosedives, the GOP offering and message will be the alternative.

Morris on O'Reilly (Fox Cable)

700 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:20:48pm

re: #690 Walter L. Newton

I think it's in the data file. I'm a techno-ignoramus, I just heard it from someone who claims to know.

701 nyc redneck  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:20:58pm

re: #278 zombie

I know many survivors of the Cultural Revolution as well. It was a thousand times more horrific than most Americans realize.

One friend had to live in the Manchurian countryside, out in the frozen fields, for several years as a teenager, surviving on eating weeds. His father had misspoke at a meeting and was banished for re-education with most of his family. (Both father and mother eventually died as a result of their living conditions.) My friend was not allowed to attend school between the ages of 12 and 30. But in secret, he studied all by himself. In the '80s he returned to school as an adult, did well, got a visa to attend an American university, and came and stayed. Now he is a leading engineer here, greatly respected, winning awards, getting awarded patents, making big cash. He refuses to speak Mandarin any more, so great is his hatred for what happened to his family during the Cultural Revolution.

the term "cultural" revolution is such a hideous misnomer. i read abt. a
chinese artist who was quite respected for his work. after mao took
over one of this artists paintings, of an owl, was presented to " mrs. mao".
she complained that the owl's eyes were "looking" at her in a rude and
unfriendly manner . the artist was immediately banished to the hinterland.
stalin purged a lot of artistic, literary, creative people when he came to power.
these thugs have no room for free thinkers who might inspire others to lofty
ideas of real freedom of the spirit.

702 Digital Display  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:21:10pm

re: #690 Walter L. Newton

Geo-tags it where. In the data file of the picture? Explain.

Probably something in the header file points to a specific packet in the transmission...

703 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:21:12pm

re: #699 alegrias

That stuff will rot your brain.

704 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:21:22pm

I just checked the referrers list. Nobody linking to this thread either. Stunned silence from the counterjihad blogs.

705 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:21:37pm

re: #692 quickjustice

I dunno. "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" was another of Lehrer's deeply disturbing songs. And there's the immortal Lehrer song whose title escapes me:

"About a young maid I'll sing a song,
sing hickory dickory ding,
about a young maid I'll sing a song,
who didn't have her family long.
Not only did she do them wrong--
she did every one of them in."

I think it was called "Irish Folk Song" or something like that. That one was just funny.

"Her mother she could never stand/
Sing rickety-tickety-tin/
Her mother she could never stand/
And so a cyanide stew she planned.
Her mother dies with the spoon in her hand/
And her face in a hideous grin, a grin
Her face in a hideous grin."

706 screaming_eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:21:48pm

re: #682 Guanxi88

Mobile home, eh?

Deep paranoid feelings when you live in a mobile home and move it everyday so that Google can't keep track of you. :)

707 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:21:57pm
708 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:00pm

re: #702 HoosierHoops

That is what I was getting ready to post, but you beat me to it.

/right. I don't even understand what you just said.

709 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:06pm

re: #683 albusteve

what was their plan for saving these homes in the event of a fire?....do they have water on the property?....a few thousand gallons might have made a difference...I'm not wishing hardship on anybody...if you don't fight back you lose

Yeah. Fuck em. The firefighters too . Dumbasses. They all should have known that when its hot and windy fire burns shit up and they should have been prepared.

/

710 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:06pm

re: #692 quickjustice

The Irish Song; Here 'tis

711 Scion9  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:13pm

re: #690 Walter L. Newton

Apple Inc. has added geocoding capabilities to the iPhone. The second generation iPhone (known as the iPhone 3G) is equipped with a GPS receiver, and uses the receiver to geotag the Exif data in photographs taken with the device. The first generation iPhone is not equipped with GPS, and uses nearby cellular phone towers to triangulate and approximate the location at which the picture was taken, which is then added to the Exif data associated with the picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format

712 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:15pm

re: #699 alegrias

OT

Dick Morris is saying Obama's liberal agenda will either fail or succeed. The job of the GOP is to be there when the liberal agenda fails. [that's kinda passive advice from the great Triangulator, as he just called himself]

Morris says the GOP must just offer an alternative so when all the liberal programs are passed and the economy nosedives, the GOP offering and message will be the alternative.

Morris on O'Reilly (Fox Cable)

he gets big $ bucks for that tripe...state the obvious, make millions

713 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:20pm

re: #698 Walter L. Newton

Scared me for a moment. I thought this was going to be the one in Paris. Not that the one in Paris is much of anything anymore. Just a over priced nightclub that has barely anything to do with the original.

This one is historic in its own way. When Sammy David Jr. performed there, he didn't have to enter via the kitchen, as when he performed with the Rat Pack at the Sands. He could walk through the star's entrance, as was proper, or through the front door if he wished.

714 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:32pm

re: #687 WhiteRasta

I heard recently that if you take a photo with your I-Phone, it geo-tags the GPS co ordinates of where that photo was taken.

College girls posting titty-pictures on the internet, beware.

Microsoft is working on system that takes geo tagged photos from anyone that submits them. Then stitches them together in a explorable mosaic. You can see some place from any angle, and zoom in where people have submitted detail photos. The geo tagging enables the stitching to be done.

715 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:33pm

re: #704 Killgore Trout

I just checked the referrers list. Nobody linking to this thread either. Stunned silence from the counterjihad blogs.

OT -

Git off of here and make your supper or else you're not going to be able to watch TV tonight.

Do I sound like you mother?

:)

716 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:22:42pm

re: #704 Killgore Trout

I just checked the referrers list. Nobody linking to this thread either. Stunned silence from the counterjihad blogs.

The stalkers are, predictably, calling Mr Bawer a dhimmi.

717 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:23:07pm

re: #699 alegrias

OT

Dick Morris is saying Obama's liberal agenda will either fail or succeed. The job of the GOP is to be there when the liberal agenda fails. [that's kinda passive advice from the great Triangulator, as he just called himself]

Morris says the GOP must just offer an alternative so when all the liberal programs are passed and the economy nosedives, the GOP offering and message will be the alternative.

Morris on O'Reilly (Fox Cable)

What's was his fall back position if it succeeds ?

718 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:23:08pm
719 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:23:22pm

re: #704 Killgore Trout

I just checked the referrers list. Nobody linking to this thread either. Stunned silence from the counterjihad blogs.

They are probably not finished frothing and foaming at the mouth to be able to come up with some minion talking points yet. Once that is done, watch out!

720 Dr. Shalit  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:23:38pm

re: #696 Charles

Yes, it does. The GPS info is stored in the EXIF metatags -- if you load the pictures into iPhoto, you can see where they were taken.

Charles -

Cool, Very Cool for the taker under existing law. If/When Law changes - bye bye 5th Amendment, and probably 4th as well.

-S-

721 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:23:40pm

re: #704 Killgore Trout

I just checked the referrers list. Nobody linking to this thread either. Stunned silence from the counterjihad blogs.

They're burning up the phone lines and email trying to get their spin straight, before posting anything.

722 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:23:42pm

re: #718 buzzsawmonkey

Gee. The Israelis coulda used something like that at Annapolis.

WTF?!?

723 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:24:01pm

re: #716 Sharmuta

The stalkers are, predictably, calling Mr Bawer a dhimmi.

Where?

724 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:24:36pm

re: #698 Walter L. Newton

I walked by the Paris version of Moulin Rouge last year. The neighborhood was quiet except for the tourist buses and tourist kids pouring out of the Metro. The hookers have moved over to Bois de Bologne and other, more heavily traveled areas.

725 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:24:37pm

re: #698 Walter L. Newton

Scared me for a moment. I thought this was going to be the one in Paris. Not that the one in Paris is much of anything anymore. Just a over priced nightclub that has barely anything to do with the original.

* * * *
Better to watch the movie with Shirley MaClaine as a dancer in the movie "Moulin Rouge. " Shirley McLaine did a mean can-can dance.
Always like her better than her scuzzy brother Warren Beatty.
Shirley was a trained ballet dancer and Hollywood Rat Pack caliber star, not the 1960s "reds" kinda leftist on screen that her brother was.

726 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:24:56pm
727 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:25:13pm

re: #719 FurryOldGuyJeans

They are probably not finished frothing and foaming at the mouth to be able to come up with some minion talking points yet. Once that is done, watch out!

I think it's likely they'll ignore this completely, because saying anything about it would mean implicating themselves.

728 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:25:26pm

re: #723 Walter L. Newton

At 2

729 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:25:27pm

re: #716 Sharmuta

The stalkers are, predictably, calling Mr Bawer a dhimmi.

*sigh* Predictable.

730 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:25:31pm

re: #709 Racer X

Yeah. Fuck em. The firefighters too . Dumbasses. They all should have known that when its hot and windy fire burns shit up and they should have been prepared.

/

right, many times they are not prepared...they could maintain firebreaks for example...do you know that in many CA communities you can not collect water?...that's folly

731 Scion9  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:25:36pm

re: #720 Dr. Shalit

You can manually strip that data from your photos before you upload/share them with relative ease. Most people don't of course because they don't know about it.

732 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:26:04pm

Off to put a bit o' time on the treadmill and listen to some Junior Brown.

733 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:26:08pm

re: #721 Charles

They're burning up the phone lines and email trying to get their spin straight, before posting anything.

That's what I pictured. Conference call with their "deep thinkers" like the metal defective that runs the counterfeit/stalker site.

734 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:26:23pm

re: #724 quickjustice

I walked by the Paris version of Moulin Rouge last year. The neighborhood was quiet except for the tourist buses and tourist kids pouring out of the Metro. The hookers have moved over to Bois de Bologne and other, more heavily traveled areas.

They are still around the Pigalle (and, no, I don't have first hand experience, I just know Paris well).

735 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:27:15pm

re: #712 albusteve

he gets big $ bucks for that tripe...state the obvious, make millions

* * * *
Shame on us, then. We give better advice for free! (Well, courtesy of our host, Charles Johnson)

736 Abu Lahab  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:27:22pm

re: #677 Charles

They will write the same thing, the same stupid and superficial argument they post every time: "..But these nice people are pro-Israel, how come you attack them, they said they are pro-Israel....etc"

Israel doesn't need these allies, I believe. Even if the leaders of these parties said they are pro-Israel, their long and rooted history of antisemitism can't be covered with a few statements. They simply found the way to legitimize themselves and whitewash their history.

737 screaming_eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:27:44pm

re: #730 albusteve

right, many times they are not prepared...they could maintain firebreaks for example...do you know that in many CA communities you can not collect water?...that's folly

They don't believe in firebreaks. They aren't natural, thus the 100,000 acre fires instead of 5,000 acres.

738 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:27:49pm

re: #733 Gus 802

That's what I pictured. Conference call with their "deep thinkers" like the mental defective that runs the counterfeit/stalker site.

Someday I'll get some sleep and start typing correctly.

739 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:27:55pm

re: #694 SasquatchOnSteroids

It's not like the exact coordinates of may property are on file with King. Co WA, and those precise locations, dimensions are now online or anything like that.

If you go to Zillow.com they link to county databases (if online) and my property information, who owns it, and the taxes on it are right there if you want to dig it out.

740 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:28:07pm

re: #730 albusteve

More geenie hatred of ordinary people. They had the same problem in Australia, no one was allowed to have a fire-break, because it "killed trees".

741 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:28:14pm

re: #733 Gus 802

That's what I pictured. Conference call with their "deep thinkers" like the metal defective that runs the counterfeit/stalker site.

Metal defective? METAL defective?!? Just what the hell is a metal defective and why is it running a website? ;)

742 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:28:49pm

re: #735 alegrias

* * * *
Shame on us, then. We give better advice for free! (Well, courtesy of our host, Charles Johnson)

Charles has more value in one post than Morris has in a month of poliblab...and I'd bet Charles has better hair too

743 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:29:54pm

re: #705 Guanxi88

I think it was called "Irish Folk Song" or something like that. That one was just funny.

My favorite:

She weighted her brother down with stones
Sing rickety-tickety-tin.
She weighted her brother down with stones
And sent him off to Davy Jones.
All they ever found was bones
And occasional pieces of skin, of skin,
And occasional pieces of skin.

And of course the payoff:

And when at last the police came by
Sing rickety-tickety-tin.
And when at last the police came by
Her dreadful crimes she did not deny.
For to do that she would have to lie:
And lying, she knew, was a sin, a sin,
And lying, she knew, was a sin.

Haven't thought of that one for decades. Nothing sticks in the memory like a sick song.

744 Digital Display  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:29:56pm

re: #734 Walter L. Newton

They are still around the Pigalle (and, no, I don't have first hand experience, I just know Paris well).

I am Tivo'ing LOST Tonight..
Lost NEW (2009) Follow the leader: Locke solidifies his position as leader of the Others. (Drama/Adventure) 1hr. 2min..
I Blame you Walter..
/

745 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:30:08pm

re: #741 FurryOldGuyJeans

Metal defective? METAL defective?!? Just what the hell is a metal defective and why is it running a website? ;)

Yeah, I tell ya. /

746 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:30:27pm

re: #734 Walter L. Newton

They are still around the Pigalle (and, no, I don't have first hand experience, I just know Paris well).

And you just made me remember Ute Lemper. Here - Bilbasong, for you:

Or, for those with utopian leanings, how about some Youkali:

747 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:30:46pm

re: #741 FurryOldGuyJeans

Metal defective? METAL defective?!? Just what the hell is a metal defective and why is it running a website? ;)

Not sure but my girlfriend has not demonstrated in two months, and I think she may be stagnate.

748 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:30:58pm

re: #729 FurryOldGuyJeans

*sigh* Predictable.

And disgustingly typical of fascists: "We are the only true patriots! If you disagree with us, you are a traitor!" I hate that Nazi rhetoric as much as I hate Nazis.

749 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:31:02pm
750 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:31:04pm

re: #740 WhiteRasta

More geenie hatred of ordinary people. They had the same problem in Australia, no one was allowed to have a fire-break, because it "killed trees".

I'm not dissin anyone here...just wondering how bad these people want to fight for their homes...do what it takes to even the odds and give themselves a chance, that's all....you knew that tho

751 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:31:21pm

re: #715 Walter L. Newton

I'm still trying to save my hydroponic kumquats. Dinner tonight is spaghetti and canned store bought sauce. I got it all planned out.

752 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:31:36pm

re: #736 Abu Lahab

They will write the same thing, the same stupid and superficial argument they post every time: "..But these nice people are pro-Israel, how come you attack them, they said they are pro-Israel....etc"

Israel doesn't need these allies, I believe. Even if the leaders of these parties said they are pro-Israel, their long and rooted history of antisemitism can't be covered with a few statements. They simply found the way to legitimize themselves and whitewash their history.

You could be right. They'll just stick with VB spin. But I still think responding to Mr Bawer will show that they are indeed the people he's discussing in this piece. They might as well though- they're all on record as supporting VB. They have no problem trashing Charles, so why not trash Mr Bawer too.

753 Digital Display  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:32:20pm

re: #747 avanti

Not sure but my girlfriend has not demonstrated in two months, and I think she may be stagnate.


Didn't you say you were married for like 22 years?

754 Guanxi88  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:32:31pm

re: #746 Guanxi88

And you just made me remember Ute Lemper. Here - Bilbasong, for you:


[Video]

Am I the only one who thinks it's oddly appropriate to love the music of Weimar Germany in these dark days?

755 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:32:34pm

re: #712 albusteve

Morris made a cottage industry out of fear-mongering Hillary. When she imploded, he had to scramble for another gig. His intimate knowledge of the Clintons was all he really had to peddle.

756 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:32:52pm

re: #749 buzzsawmonkey

Metal Defective opened for Spinal Tap once.

the Sutures closed the gig....

757 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:33:00pm

re: #749 buzzsawmonkey

Metal Defective opened for Spinal Tap once.

It goes to 11.

758 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:33:21pm

re: #742 albusteve

Charles has more value in one post than Morris has in a month of poliblab...and I'd bet Charles has better hair too

* * * *
Dick Morris got President Clinton re-elected for a second term, the only Democrat president to serve two whole terms in a long time.

Charles Johnson's blog did not begin until much after the Clinton years, unless I'm wrong.

So therefore, Dick Morris is a person of historical consequence as a Consigliere to President Clinton.

Charles Johnson will go down in history as a great detective who blew the whistle on false evidence meant to take down a sitting president in wartime (President Bush in 2004).

759 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:33:46pm

I am surprised though, that paul belien hasn't come out with something, since he's the only person Mr Bawer mentions by name.

760 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:34:13pm

re: #728 Sharmuta

At 2

Got it. Interesting, out of 17 comments over there, based on this threads article, only ONE comment deals with Bruce and his article. The rest is just a bunch of sniping against LGF.

These folks have no more insight to a subject than they did when they were posting here.

It's a shame. If you are going to debate a topic, debate it, say something that has some merit. Yelling, screaming, stomping ones foot serves no one and solves nothing.

Cretins.

761 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:34:21pm

re: #753 HoosierHoops

Didn't you say you were married for like 22 years?

40, but I have girl "friends", none of which are really stagnant.

762 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:35:27pm
763 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:35:41pm

re: #752 Sharmuta

I wonder if they will ignore it in an attempt to lessen the traffic to this site, thereby reducing the number of people whose eyes may be opened. It's one thing to trash Charles - their "corporate campaign" discrediting him had a bit of traction. If another person - another authority on the subject, points out the painful truth of what is really happening, and that Charles isn't the demon they've painted him to be, it lessens the credibility of these fools. Risky situation for them.

764 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:36:55pm

re: #761 avanti

40, but I have girl "friends", none of which are really stagnant.

* * * *
I'm getting John Edwards' "Two Americas" vibes from you...
Two Faces, is how I'll remember that scumbag vain democrat pretender to the Presidency.

765 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:36:56pm

re: #742 albusteve

Charles has more value in one post than Morris has in a month of poliblab...and I'd bet Charles has better hair too

That's a bit of hyperbole. Dick Morris is actually quite useful, as long as you remember that he is a mercenary. You pay him for what you need from him but don't expect long-term loyalty without long-term payment.

766 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:37:42pm

re: #751 Killgore Trout

I'm still trying to save my hydroponic kumquats. Dinner tonight is spaghetti and canned store bought sauce. I got it all planned out.

What ? You don't need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt.. What you need is a curve ball. In the Show everybody can hit a fast ball

767 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:37:44pm

re: #710 BatGuano Does anyone besides me remember Tom Lehrer from the tv show, That Was The Week That Was hosted by Davis Frost?

768 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:37:55pm

re: #721 Charles

They're burning up the phone lines and email trying to get their spin straight, before posting anything.

I can't wait to hear the whinging from the brave hearts in the "little band of fighters defending the West".

LotR complex about to go into overdrive. Bawer seduced by Mordor. Orcs on the march. No quarter.

And prolly some jabs at Bruce's orientation from drag-queen impersonator Atlas. Irony overload. Duck.

769 screaming_eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:09pm

re: #763 ArmyWife

Interesting theory, but I think if you love the taste of kool-aide, then you love the taste of kool-aide and don't care about anything else.

770 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:11pm

re: #765 Dark_Falcon

That's a bit of hyperbole. Dick Morris is actually quite useful, as long as you remember that he is a mercenary. You pay him for what you need from him but don't expect long-term loyalty without long-term payment.

hyperbole!...WHAT?....okay it was

771 AFVetWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:19pm

All I can say is that we are conservative, Christian, and very anti-jihad/Muslin extremism. We will NEVER FORGET 9/11! Any group/ideology that agrees with that position deserves to be listened to, as long as they do not promote another form of extremism or are anti-Israel. We are very concerned about the obvious lack of support for Israel by this administration (among many other positions). As with many groups/movements, there is good and bad. Our task, as intelligent, discerning individuals, is to seperate one from the other - congratulating the good, and excoriating the bad.

772 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:22pm
773 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:27pm

re: #746 Guanxi88

And you just made me remember Ute Lemper. Here - Bilbasong, for you:

I haven't heard that in a LONG time. And by the way, Maisey the Parrot liked it too. Especially that long note she held at the end, Maisey screeched it out along with her.

Sometimes I wish I had a web cam or an audio feed so you Lizards could hear how Maisey the Parrot reacts to some of these video that you all link too.

Too funny.

774 alegrias  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:36pm

re: #765 Dark_Falcon

That's a bit of hyperbole. Dick Morris is actually quite useful, as long as you remember that he is a mercenary. You pay him for what you need from him but don't expect long-term loyalty without long-term payment.

* * * *
Hey, campaign consultants go from campaign to campaign, and now, country to country, advising politicians.

It's a business to many of these "professionals", whose only motto is "JUST WIN, BABY."

775 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:44pm

re: #765 Dark_Falcon

I've heard Morris speak in person here in NYC several times. He gets a lot of his predictions-- as in "Hillary will become President"-- wrong.

776 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:38:55pm

Just for the record, Bruce Bawer emailed me about his post, before I put anything up here at LGF. I didn't go out searching for it, as certain stalkers are raving about -- Bruce wanted me to know about it.

Also for the record, people who have their accounts blocked, and then send me hate mail immediately, get put on the IP block list.

777 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:39:01pm

re: #762 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe they could get stagnant with the right treatments.

I think they're trying to avoid getting stagnate. Something to induce demonstrations.

778 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:39:20pm

re: #772 buzzsawmonkey

"David" Frost. PIMF

779 nyc redneck  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:40:00pm

re: #726 buzzsawmonkey

I was referring to how, at the Annapolis conference presided over by Condi Rice, the Arabs refused to enter through the same door as the Israelis--so the Israelis had to come in through the kitchen entrance.

that is so fcked up. the israelis should have refused to do that.
when the arab barbarians are in america, we need to treat these jerks like they are in the civilized world, and make them live up to the basic expectations of that level of society.
it is a disservice to these people to let them get away w/ such crude demands.
it reinforces their 7th century b.s.

780 abolitionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:40:17pm

re: #730 albusteve

right, many times they are not prepared...they could maintain firebreaks for example...do you know that in many CA communities you can not collect water?...that's folly

Perhaps lefties think it may affect the level of the oceans? Or maybe they consider it hoarding, and therefore "unfair" --typical zero-sum mentality at work.

781 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:40:35pm

re: #769 screaming_eagle

You could be right. Perhaps I give them too much credit in assuming they have some ability to be strategic.

782 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:41:06pm

re: #780 abolitionist

Perhaps lefties think it may affect the level of the oceans? Or maybe they consider it hoarding, and therefore "unfair" --typical zero-sum mentality at work.

right...zero sum house is the result

783 quickjustice  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:41:18pm

Early in its history, Israel was closer to the Soviet Union than to the U.S. With the ascent of Obama, the Israelis again will discover that they're on their own.

784 screaming_eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:42:29pm

re: #781 ArmyWife

You could be right. Perhaps I give them too much credit in assuming they have some ability to be strategic.

Emotion will kick in sooner or later.

785 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:43:24pm
786 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:43:54pm

re: #772 buzzsawmonkey

We be old! :)

787 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:44:22pm

re: #779 nyc redneck

The soddomite "King" on a flight from Crawford refused to deal with a female air Traffic Controller. (his pilot, refused, that is.)

788 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:44:27pm

re: #768 Cato the Elder

I can't wait to hear the whinging from the brave hearts in the "little band of fighters defending the West".

LotR complex about to go into overdrive. Bawer seduced by Mordor. Orcs on the march. No quarter.

And prolly some jabs at Bruce's orientation from drag-queen impersonator Atlas. Irony overload. Duck.

The modernists among them will be talking about "Belgian Psyops".

789 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:44:32pm

re: #763 ArmyWife

I wonder if they will ignore it in an attempt to lessen the traffic to this site, thereby reducing the number of people whose eyes may be opened. It's one thing to trash Charles - their "corporate campaign" discrediting him had a bit of traction. If another person - another authority on the subject, points out the painful truth of what is really happening, and that Charles isn't the demon they've painted him to be, it lessens the credibility of these fools. Risky situation for them.

This piece really puts them in a bad light, and creates a myriad of problems for them. They surely wouldn't want to point out that Charles has an ally in Mr Bawer, and by extension, Ms Ali. They would be, in effect, agreeing that other writers are being harassed to support this group.

790 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:44:37pm

re: #768 Cato the Elder

I can't wait to hear the whinging from the brave hearts in the "little band of fighters defending the West".

LotR complex about to go into overdrive. Bawer seduced by Mordor. Orcs on the march. No quarter.

And prolly some jabs at Bruce's orientation from drag-queen impersonator Atlas. Irony overload. Duck.

LotR Character Analogies:

Barack Obama = Lord of the Nazgul

George Soros = Sauron

Nancy Pelosi = Shelob

Sarah Palin = Galadriel

Robert Spencer = Grima Wormtongue

Any others?

791 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:45:15pm

re: #782 albusteve

The rain water belongs to "all of us".

792 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:46:30pm

I imagine some eggshells being walked on, in regards to this piece. I'm guessing a couple want to fly off the handle, as is their standard M.O., but the more intellectual one might be urging restraint.

793 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:46:51pm

re: #790 Dark_Falcon

LotR Character Analogies:

Barack Obama = Lord of the Nazgul

George Soros = Sauron

Nancy Pelosi = Shelob

Sarah Palin = Galadriel

Robert Spencer = Grima Wormtongue

Any others?

Rahm Emmanuel = Gollum

794 screaming_eagle  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:48:01pm

re: #792 Sharmuta

I imagine some eggshells being walked on, in regards to this piece. I'm guessing a couple want to fly off the handle, as is their standard M.O., but the more intellectual one might be urging restraint.

Emotion will kick in sooner or later.

795 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:48:10pm

re: #771 AFVetWife

Our task, as intelligent, discerning individuals, is to seperate one from the other - congratulating the good, and excoriating the bad.

Another of our tasks, as intelligent, discerning individuals, is to recognize when there are those who present a good facade only as a cover for the bad.

796 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:48:22pm

re: #793 SasquatchOnSteroids

Rahm Emmanuel = Gollum

I like Sarah as Eowyn.

797 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:49:37pm

re: #793 SasquatchOnSteroids

Rahm Emmanuel = Gollum

No, James Carville = Gollum (no, wait, didn't Carville actually play the part in the movies?)

798 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:49:39pm

re: #791 WhiteRasta

The rain water belongs to "all of us".

Jamaica...cetz de wata mon

799 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:49:52pm

re: #796 LGoPs

I like Sarah as Eowyn.

Doesn't work. Sarah is not a maiden, she's a mother of five. Wise but still beautiful works better for her.

800 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:50:41pm

re: #797 Walter L. Newton

heh, maybe you're right.

MAKEUP !
Uh, never mind.

801 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:50:56pm

re: #776 Charles

I assume the first part of this post is for the same audience as the second. You need not explain yourself to us - we "know" you, and understand how true you are to your convictions. You don't need anyone to validate who you are and certainly wouldn't go out seeking it. For someone to suggest otherwise is just ludicrous.

802 WhiteRasta  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:51:03pm

re: #798 albusteve

Yes, mon!

803 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:51:06pm

re: #790 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, you lost me at Obama. For shame!

And if Sarah Palin is Galadriel, I'm Viggo Mortensen and ursine quadrupeds do not evacuate their bowels in wooded areas.

804 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:51:15pm

re: #796 LGoPs

I like Sarah as Eowyn.

Now that I think of it Eowyn slew the Witch King of Angmar...aka Obama.

805 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:52:31pm

re: #790 Dark_Falcon

LotR Character Analogies:

Barack Obama = Lord of the Nazgul

George Soros = Sauron

Nancy Pelosi = Shelob

Sarah Palin = Galadriel

Robert Spencer = Grima Wormtongue

Any others?

Biden = Denethor

806 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:55:28pm

re: #796 LGoPs

I like Sarah as Eowyn.

Jeez looeeez. Downdings for saying Sarah could be Eowyn? We're just comparing people to fictional characters.....
Sheesh.

807 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:55:54pm

re: #789 Sharmuta

Is this bigger than an "ends justifies the means" partnership? Is VB supporting this group of "citizen soldiers" financially? I want to cue ominous music here, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder.

(I hate the fact they use the term "citizen soldier". It really rubs me the wrong way.)

808 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:58:14pm

Cato, why are you downdinging all the LotR posts?

809 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:58:52pm

re: #807 ArmyWife

Is this bigger than an "ends justifies the means" partnership? Is VB supporting this group of "citizen soldiers" financially? I want to cue ominous music here, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder.

(I hate the fact they use the term "citizen soldier". It really rubs me the wrong way.)

I learned a long time ago that when people are acting in a way that seems irrational, or counter to their best interests, or unnecessarily abusive toward others, the reason almost always comes down to one of two things: 1) money, or 2) sex.

And I don't think anyone is getting involved with fascists for the sex.

810 Bagua  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:59:51pm

Good article by Bruce Bawer,

and when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise – then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

He makes an excellent point, I'm reminded of the election season when some hay was made of something Obama once wrote that, "if things get really ugly I'll stand with the Muslims."

Despite not being much of a fan I gave him a pass on that and could see where he was coming from.

811 SummerSong  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:00:21pm

For a long while, you had to stand alone, Charles.
Not anymore.

812 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:00:48pm

re: #808 Dark_Falcon

Cato, why are you downdinging all the LotR posts?

I noticed that too. I didn't like the movies, but gee...

813 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:01:17pm

re: #808 Dark_Falcon

Cato, why are you downdinging all the LotR posts?

Cato is Saruman......

814 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:01:59pm

re: #812 Walter L. Newton

I noticed that too. I didn't like the movies, but gee...

Did you like the book?

815 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:02:44pm

re: #813 LGoPs

Cato is Saruman......

No, Alen Specter is Saruman.

816 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:18pm

re: #665 Charles

What happened to Robert and Pamela? Not a word out of them about Bruce's article yet. Surely they know about it already!

You don't think they're just planning to ignore it, do you?

They're rattled. Wouldn't surprise me if Spencer is now emailing Bawer desperately trying to persuade him to say he's not talking about him - even though it's obvious that he is.

817 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:43pm

re: #815 Dark_Falcon

No, Alen Specter is Saruman.

Arlen is Ugluk the Orc.

818 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:05:19pm

re: #817 LGoPs

Arlen is Ugluk the Orc.

LOL!

819 Simply Me  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:06:13pm

re: #418 AlexM
More like this. Please post more often.

820 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:07:16pm

Good evening folks. I notice that none of our phantom down dingers have zapped this post. Amazingly enough.

821 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:07:20pm

re: #682 Guanxi88

Mobile home, eh?

No, but the town has many of those.

822 loup-garou  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:09:48pm
823 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:11:43pm

re: #809 Charles

And I don't think anyone is getting involved with fascists for the sex.

I would bet not. We all know people become fascists to make up for the fact they have small...

;)

824 Simply Me  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:16pm

re: #440 Sharmuta
Sorry Sharmuta, but you just proved you're a #3 with that "bigot" remark.

825 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:13:08pm

re: #440 Sharmuta

Ah- I think I get it. 'Simply Me" doesn't support individual right.

826 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:14:12pm

re: #824 Simply Me

Sorry Sharmuta, but you just proved you're a #3 with that "bigot" remark.

Excuse me, but there really are anti-Islamic bigots, you know.

I've banned enough of them from posting at LGF. It's a fact, whether you like it or not.

827 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:14:13pm

re: #824 Simply Me

Maybe you haven't been paying attention, newbie. There most certainly ARE bigots in the "counter-jihad".

828 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:17:54pm
829 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:03pm

Now I get it.

Remember 'Perpetua'?

'Simply Me' is her latest sock puppet.

Now blocked again.

That's the fourth sock puppet this person has registered.

830 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:20:40pm

re: #829 Charles

Funny- even 'Perpetua' whined about dings.

831 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:27:55pm

re: #548 Guanxi88

As for the funny spelling, my family shook off its Yiddish name by adopting a pseudo-Celtic homonym. There's just no telling.

So, Shloime arrives at Ellis Island, having carefully memorized in English all the questions he may be asked, and the answers he should give. He practices the night before, but when he actually sits down with the immigration official, and is asked "What is your name?" he panics.

"Al shoyn fergessen!" he cries. "I forgot already!"

The immigration man shrugs and writes down for name: Sean Ferguson.

832 Liberal Classic  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:29:59pm

I know I'm late for the party, but this is an interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

Never mind that other right-wing European parties, such as Norway’s Progress Party, have explicitly distanced themselves from VB; never mind that in 2006 Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a far more well informed student of Benelux politics than any of VB’s eager new boosters, called VB “a racist, anti-Semitic, extremist party that is unkind to women” and earlier today, while acknowledging that “the party has adjusted its rhetoric and seems to have dropped its anti-Semitic stance,” told me in an e-mail that “it’s very difficult to know whether this [adjustment] is genuine or political pragmatism.”

I openly admit I am largely ignorant of European politics, and it is difficult for me to know who to believe sometimes. This is especially true when some of the people involved aren't exactly forthright. My gut tells me the "adjustment" is for show only, and the racism, anti-feminism, and anti-semitism still exist behind winks and nods.

833 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:20pm

re: #569 Guanxi88

Funny you should say that; there's a fascinating documentary "L'chaim, Comrade Stalin," all about the lovable dictator's efforts to create a Jewish homeland in the USSR. And where did he put it? Right by Mongolia.

Ah, yes. Birobidzhan, the Jewish homeland. Because every Soviet people needed a homeland.

834 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:41pm

re: #829 Charles

Persistent creature. Not so smart, but persistent.

835 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:22pm

re: #585 LGoPs

Interesting. Hey Buzz. What is the derivation of the word Ashkenazi? I remember that word from the neighborhood where I grew up in Chicago but have forgotten what it refers to. Is it a geographical area that Jews came from or were associated with?

'Ashkenaz' is a biblical place-name that became associated with Germany. Hence, Jews following the German minhag and speaking German languages became the 'Ashkenazim'. (This later included Eastern Europe, after late medieval migrations.)

836 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:35:08pm

re: #835 SanFranciscoZionist

'Ashkenaz' is a biblical place-name that became associated with Germany. Hence, Jews following the German minhag and speaking German languages became the 'Ashkenazim'. (This later included Eastern Europe, after late medieval migrations.)

Spain, in Hebrew, is 'Sefarad', hence the Sephardim.

837 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:39:17pm

re: #692 quickjustice

I dunno. "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" was another of Lehrer's deeply disturbing songs. And there's the immortal Lehrer song whose title escapes me:

"About a young maid I'll sing a song,
sing hickory dickory ding,
about a young maid I'll sing a song,
who didn't have her family long.
Not only did she do them wrong--
she did every one of them in."

"We will all go together when we go." That is truly disturbing.

838 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:39:57pm

re: #809 Charles

839 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:41:46pm

re: #838 freetoken

Hmmmm... did my link get filtered?

My reply to Charles about fascism and sex:

Maybe.....

840 FrumiousFalafel  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:54:48pm

Once a person, political party, or blog has been tainted with the slightest whiff of flirtations with pro-Nazi groups (no matter to what lengths these groups might go to hide their nefarious links), pro-Nazi groups cannot realistically (psychologically even) be expected to recover or rehabilitate with very very few exceptions (and then they make a very big deal about their almost religious conversion to normalcy -- since, psychologically, it's nothing less than a conversion or an ongoing catharsis).

But in general, it's doubtful that the blogger per se can pull himself out of the hole he's dug since he's typically gone to such lengths in defending his position that it would cause him too much cognitive dissonance -- and he has now a social group of like-believers. Most people find it exceedingly difficult to leave a groups which gives them affirmation, irrespective of what that affirmation might be.

Thus I totally support Charles rigid enforcement of a "Nazi-Free_zone" that he's created here at LGF. (If I don't reflect youi opinions accurately, please feel free to correct them)

Charles: perhaps in the same way that the Germans used the term Judenfrie to indicate their desire for no Jews whatsoever living under their domain -- maybe we should also consider a counter-proclamation or policy statement of sorts that proclaims LGF a Nazi-Free-Zone. What do you think?

I'm personally all for keeping the slightest of sympathizers out of this group since it does nothing but denigrate the lives our father gave in fighting the Nazis not too long ago (among other things, like they killed my family)

-- FrumiousFalafel

841 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:34:31pm

re: #808 Dark_Falcon

Cato, why are you downdinging all the LotR posts?

Sheesh.

OK, for all of you pull-my-finger, you-said-Nazgul, ODS-impaired, satirically challenged types out there:

I was making fun of the way Spencer et al. see themselves. The quote about the "little band of fighters defending the West" is by him, about him and his friends at Atlas Shrieks, Hates of Vienna etc.

Or, as I put it yesterday:

A lot of these people seem to have a Lord of the Rings complex. With Muslims as sub-human orcs, of course.

The Baron as King Theoden, Dymphna as Galadriel, Fjordman as a windy Aragorn, the elusive Hugh Fitzgerald as Legolas?

That would make Spencer Gimli, I guess.

And Pam? An aging, raging, drunken Eowyn without a Faramir?

I'm taking nominations for the rest of the roles.

To continue the analogy:

By their lights, Charles would be Saruman, the fallen wizard.

It's known as parody.

But don't let that deter you from getting in your witless, impotent, knee-jerk, Sarah-lovin', Obama-hatin', POTUS-as-ringwraith jabs.

Carry on.

842 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:40:23pm

re: #841 Cato the Elder

Sorry. I did not understand that before. I take your point.

843 Bagua  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:41:46pm

re: #841 Cato the Elder

:-)

Well put!

844 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:23pm

re: #809 Charles

I learned a long time ago that when people are acting in a way that seems irrational, or counter to their best interests, or unnecessarily abusive toward others, the reason almost always comes down to one of two things: 1) money, or 2) sex.

And I don't think anyone is getting involved with fascists for the sex.

Wish it might be true. But I think you may underestimate the dark pull of Nazi erotica.

845 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:19:34pm

re: #844 Cato the Elder

Wish it might be true. But I think you may underestimate the dark pull of Nazi erotica.

Sure, people play around with Nazi regalia for that purpose.

But real fascists aren't sexy to anyone.

846 countrygurl  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:33:18pm

Charles Johnson, you must have an IQ of about 200. You are truly an amazing person - I have learned so much from your articles posted here and your comments plus those of various wise bloggers. I have to admit, I was dubious for a while -- Gates of Vienna, Spencer, Fjordman and others -- I was very much into all those sites and the views espoused there. I was not convinced that you were right about the VB group. But now, I feel like I have been "reeducated" by the Lizard Lord.

Thank you Charles, thank you Lizard Army. Keep up the work. And thanks for weeding out the lunatic fringe. It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it so we lurkers can actually learn.

847 countrygurl  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:38:44pm

re: #844 Cato the Elder

Wish it might be true. But I think you may underestimate the dark pull of Nazi erotica.


YIKES! I didn't know such things existed. Excuse me, I have to go shower now.
Shudder.
Horrible stuff.

848 Infidoll  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:24pm

I haven't followed this controversy very closely. Have Geller and Spencer actually suggested that Islam should be outlawed in the US? Seriously?
If true, yikes.

Not that anyone asked me, but I really appreciate LGF. I've even been tempted on several occasions to emerge from my lurkerdom and tell Charles how much I appreciate his willingness to tackle things like creationism and the anti-vac retards. Even so, and altho it sounds like Geller and Spencer aren't doing our cause any good, I find myself turned off by this feuding.

I'm not suggesting you should back off of this, Charles, I admire you for calling them on their stupidity; I'm just saying that it doesn't make for the most interesting reading.

849 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:49:13pm

re: #845 Charles

Sure, people play around with Nazi regalia for that purpose.

But real fascists aren't sexy to anyone.

The link was a joke. But I fear that some people find the real thing a turn-on, too.

Some things, however, don't bear too much scrutiny. There's not enough disinfectant on the planet...

850 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:50:53pm

re: #847 countrygurl

YIKES! I didn't know such things existed. Excuse me, I have to go shower now.
Shudder.
Horrible stuff.

You'll note that I refrained from linking any images. There was a reason for that.

;^)

851 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:54:30pm
852 Irish Rose  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:36:27pm

I go away for the evening, and what do I come back to?
Nazi erotica.

/gag

853 Salamantis  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:48:29pm

re: #830 Sharmuta

Funny- even 'Perpetua' whined about dings.

I'll bet if we check, we'll find that the Simply Me incarnation accessed my recent comments and massively and gratuitously downdinged me without reply - just like the original Perpetual incarnation did, to the tune of close to 200 Karma points.

And then possessed the unutterable temerity and gall to complain that I was downdinging IT - even though I was also replying to its downdinged posts explaining exactly WHY I downdinged them.

854 Former Belgian  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:54:04pm

re: #809 Charles

I learned a long time ago that when people are acting in a way that seems irrational, or counter to their best interests, or unnecessarily abusive toward others, the reason almost always comes down to one of two things: 1) money, or 2) sex.

And I don't think anyone is getting involved with fascists for the sex.

I would add "3) power". Granting for the sake of argument that VB is a crypto-fascist party[*], they are the ONLY party of that ilk in the West that has a semi-serious shot at power.

This aside from the pact that all too many people are willing to make pacts with the devil for the sake of a perceived greater good. Sometimes this may even be unavoidable (WW II is a case in point). Those who raise WW II as a justification for this sort of alliance ought however to remember that the whole mess STARTED because of exactly this thing. Had Franz von Papen not felt a need to "coopt" Hitler (y"sh) into his government, the NSDAP might be a footnote in history now and WW II and the Shoah might never have happened.

[*] I personally think VB is a mixed bag of non-fascist conservative Flemish nationalists, crypto-fascists, and open fascists, with the preponderance of evidence suggesting the current leadership belongs to the "crypto" faction. (The founding leadership I would classify as "openly F.".)

855 Kenneth  Thu, May 7, 2009 6:37:06am

re: #544 Walter L. Newton

Didn't Bawer say in that article that he was an Anglican? That hardly makes him an atheist, let alone an anti-religious kook.

I added my down-ding to Afton's troll-post.

856 Kenneth  Thu, May 7, 2009 6:44:01am

re: #809 Charles

I learned a long time ago that when people are acting in a way that seems irrational, or counter to their best interests, or unnecessarily abusive toward others, the reason almost always comes down to one of two things: 1) money, or 2) sex.

And I don't think anyone is getting involved with fascists for the sex.

There is one other cause for behavior which is "irrational, or counter to their best interests, or unnecessarily abusive toward others":

3) mental illness

I have noted massive amounts of paranoia, projection & splitting coming from certain quarters during this whole brouhaha. These are maladaptive defensive mechanisms characteristic of mental illness.

857 Land Shark  Thu, May 7, 2009 7:55:23am

re: #846 countrygurl

I don't know Charles' IQ, but the sad fact is he was right about them. I thought he had "jumped the shark" when he first came up with this stuff, Lord knows I wanted him to be wrong, but my own research and subsequent events proved him right. He's taken a lot of heat for his stand but stood firm.

As someone who considers himself a staunch anti-jihadi, it was quite a disappointment to see so many of them aligning themselves with the Eurofascists but that's reality for 'ya. It doesn't give a hoot what you want or hope for. It just is.

If anyone here hasn't read Bruce Bawer's excellent book "While Europe Slept" I highly recommend it. It documents from the ground in Europe not just the on going Islamization but how Leftists are in cahoots with the Islamofacists in subverting the Continent. It's a well written, fascinating read.

858 Yashmak  Thu, May 7, 2009 8:51:49am

re: #845 Charles

Sure, people play around with Nazi regalia for that purpose.

But real fascists aren't sexy to anyone.

I'm sure Eva Braun would take issue with that statement :)

859 maryatexitzero  Thu, May 7, 2009 10:56:42am

What the hell, one is entitled to wonder, is going on here? Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers? And why does at least one of them now take such a staggeringly contemptuous view of Pim Fortuyn?

I don't think most of the "anti-Jihad" types who support Vlaams Belang are doing it because they're evil. History shows that, during times of stress, the majority of people in the old world (and some in America) will support politicians with clearly authoritarian views if they think that this will solve their problems. The American Vlaams Belang cheerleaders aren't fascists, proto-fascists or fascist sympathizers, but they, like most people, are probably willing to downplay the faults of groups like Vlaams Belang because they think befriending these groups can somehow 'help' them.

Their views are ordinary, but the way they harass anyone who disagrees with them is extraordinary. When they're willing to write hit pieces like this, they're not friends, associates or even respect-worthy enemies. They're just run-of-the-mill trolls.

860 IanTheTerrible  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:16:27pm

re: #2 Ward Cleaver

Yes, that screech does carry. After a while it's just a constant ringing in your ears and you'll get used to it. Atlas would be plugging his ears if he wasn't busy holding up the world on Pamela's command.

861 Sacred Plants  Sat, May 9, 2009 11:29:47pm

For the record and Bruce Bawer -

In fact, for reasons unknown to me, this regional party in one of Europe’s smallest countries appears to have become, for a number of anti-jihadist writers on both sides of the Atlantic, nothing short of a litmus test: in their eyes, it seems, if you’re not willing to genuflect to VB, you’re not a real anti-jihadist.

These reasons are obvious to anyone who follows the money. Belgium is a small country, and after the outsourcing of the industries most of the money there is made from the trade going through one the world´s biggest ports to the large countries behind it. Vlaams Belang is an attempt of secession by the wealthy part of Belgium against the rest of the country, who imagine their money could save them from being the useful idiots of the Germans (again).

They´re so bad that the opponents of Belgian secession (the European Union oligarchies in Brussels) don´t need much to appear good in contrast.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Pino Palladino + Blake Mills + Sam Gendel - Djurkel (Live) Pre-order the new album “Notes With Attachments” available March 12: pinoblake.lnk.to Shop merch: blakemills.lnk.to Follow Pino:Instagram: pinopalladino.lnk.toFacebook: pinopalladino.lnk.toTwitter: pinopalladino.lnk.toSpotify: pinopalladino.lnk.to Tidal: pinopalladino.lnk.to Amazon: pinopalladino.lnk.to Pandora: pinopalladino.lnk.to YouTube Music: pinopalladino.lnk.to Follow Blake:Instagram: blakemills.lnk.toTwitter: blakemills.lnk.toSpotify: blakemills.lnk.toApple Music: blakemills.lnk.toAmazon: blakemills.lnk.toSoundcloud: blakemills.lnk.toPandora: blakemills.lnk.toYouTube ...
Thanos
15 hours, 4 minutes ago
Views: 168 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Molly Tuttle, Sierra Hull, Sarah Jarosz -Salt CreekMolly Tuttle, Sierra Hull and Sarah Jarosz playing "Salt Creek" during the Music City Bandwidth's virtual show from The East Room in Nashville on October 15, 2020
Thanos
15 hours, 7 minutes ago
Views: 143 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Black Pumas - I’m Ready (Live on the Late Late Show With James Corden) "I'm Ready" is available on the GRAMMY-nominated Deluxe Edition of the Black Pumas debut album. The Deluxe Edition includes 11 bonus tracks (3 brand new songs, 4 covers, and 4 live recordings) and is available now in 2xLP, 2xCD ...
Thanos
2 days, 14 hours ago
Views: 379 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Tomorrow - Jimmy Wahlsteen, Vincent VegaProvided to YouTube by Epidemic Sound Tomorrow · Jimmy Wahlsteen · Vincent Vega Epidemic Presents: Crates (M. Bison Edition) ℗ Epidemic Sound Released on: 2020-03-13 Producer: Kasper LindgrenComposer: Jimmy Wahlsteen Auto-generated by YouTube.
Thanos
5 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 580 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 210221The waterfall bilge pump died three weeks ago.We're trying something new.Saturday we test installed two tiny aquarium pumps to get the waterfall going again.These pumps are very small but are designed to run all the time. Bilge pumps aren't. Though ...
Dangerman
5 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 583 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
The Staves - Best Friend [Live at Lafayette] The Staves - Best Friend [Live at Lafayette] Our new album 'Good Woman' is out now: lnk.to Follow The Staves:Facebook thestaves.lnk.toTwitter thestaves.lnk.toInstagram thestaves.lnk.to YouTube thestaves.lnk.toSpotify thestaves.lnk.toiTunes thestaves.lnk.to When I could be anythingThat I wanted OhWe could be better thanBetter ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 1,086 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Sting - Shape of My Heart (Official Music Video)REMASTERED IN HD!Official Video For Sting's "Shape Of My Heart".#Sting #ShapeOfMyHeart #Remastered
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 1,247 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Amy Macdonald - Statues (Single Mix) (Official Audio) One of Amy's best features is that she doesn't "Americanize" her singing voice, something too many UK performers do. The Official Audio for Statues (Single Mix) by Amy Macdonald, taken from the new album 'The Human Demands'. Listen now: ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 1,262 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
KALEO - Break My Baby (LIVE From Þrídrangar, Iceland) Break My Baby - Live from Þrídrangar - Iceland Music and Lyrics by JJ Julius Son Stream/Download: kaleo.lnk.to Þrídrangar means “three rock pillars” and is located 4.5 miles from Iceland's south coast. In 1939, three of Westman Islands' best ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 2,017 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 6 •
Lake Street Dive - Hypotheticals [From Phantom Studios] Video Directed + Produced by Alex Chaloff for Bucket's Moving CompanyRecorded at Phantom Studios, Gallatin TN"Hypotheticals" from the upcoming Lake Street Dive album ObviouslyOut March 12th on Nonesuch RecordsPre-Order Obviously NOW: smarturl.it Produced by Mike ElizondoRachael Price: vocalsMike “McDuck” ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 1,674 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 4 •