News to Make Creationists’ Heads Explode

Science • Views: 2,719

I’ve been following the story of the curious “hobbit-like” remains found in Indonesia in 2003 for years with great interest, and today two new studies have been released that conclude this really is a new species of proto-human.

Diminutive humans whose remains were found on the remote Indonesian island of Flores in 2003 truly are a new species, and not pygmies whose brains had shrivelled with disease, researchers reported Wednesday.

Anthropologists have argued, sometimes bitterly, since the discovery of Homo floresiensis — dubbed “the hobbit” due to its size — as to the identity and origins of these distant cave-dwelling cousins. Measuring about a metre (three feet) and weighing in at 30 kilos (65 pounds), the tiny, tool-making hunters may have roamed the island for which they were named as recently as 8,000 years ago. The fossils are about 18,000 years old. …

Two new studies in the British journal Nature go a long way toward settling this debate, even as they raise new quandaries that are sure to stoke further controversy.

A team led by William Jungers of the Stony Brook University in New York tackled the problem from the other end by analysing the hobbit’s foot. In some ways it is very human. The big toe is aligned with the others and the joints make it possible to extend the toes as the body’s full weight falls on the foot, attributes not found in great apes.

But, in other respects, it is startlingly primitive: far longer than its modern human equivalent, and equipped with a very small big toe, long, curved lateral toes, and a weight-bearing structure closer to a chimpanzee’s.

Recent archeological evidence from Kenya shows that the modern foot evolved more than 1.5 million years ago, most likely in Homo erectus. So unless the Flores hobbits became more primitive over time — a more-than-unlikely scenario — they must have branched off the human line at an even earlier date.

For Jungers and colleagues, this suggests “that the ancestor of H. floresiensis was not Homo erectus but instead some other, more primitive, hominid whose dispersal into southeast Asia is still undocumented,” the researchers conclude.

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618 comments
1 stuiec  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:52:59pm

This actually lends credence to the Hawaiian legends of the menehune.

2 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:53:03pm

howdy cousin!....waz up?

3 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:53:45pm

cool beard...I like these guys

4 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:53:53pm

Chapter 1: Concerning Homo floresiensis

5 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:54:32pm

My grandfather didn't come from no hobbit

/

6 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:54:40pm

re: #2 albusteve

howdy cousin!....waz up?

down, diminutive, down........

;-P

7 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:55:10pm

re: #5 Shug

My grandfather didn't come from no hobbit

/

Okay, you're a hobbits uncle.

8 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:55:11pm

I can't wait for the meltdown tonight. I've already got the charcoal ready!

9 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:55:19pm

Really, not another Tolkien thread.

10 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:55:21pm

I remember when this story first broke. The idea it was a hobbit human was almost laughable. Glad the truth finally prevailed.

11 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:55:41pm

it's all in the toes...check yer toes people

12 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:56:05pm

The foot part while not conclusive, is somewhat convincing. I've been reading about them as well, and the differentiation in the structure of the foot and the number of remains to confirm it with certainly shoot the "sick human" hypothesis' down in flames.

13 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:56:09pm

re: #11 albusteve

it's all in the toes...check yer toes people

Ten with lots of hair. Am I a hobbit?

14 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:56:34pm

re: #4 Bloodnok

Chapter 1: Concerning Homo floresiensis

So, we need to clone these hobbits. They might by of use against the Dark Lord Soros.

15 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:56:47pm

But did they BBQ? That's what I want to know.

16 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:56:58pm

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

Really, not another Tolkien thread.

Nasty hobbitses! Nasty!

17 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:57:17pm

God made them small so they wouldn't take up too much room on the Ark.

18 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:57:24pm

re: #13 simonml

Ten with lots of hair. Am I a hobbit?

can you sing and dance?...cool, pass the pipe weed

19 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:57:49pm

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

But did they BBQ? That's what I want to know.

Tool making... fire therefore likely, BBQ!

20 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:57:58pm

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

But did they BBQ? That's what I want to know.

they clearly invented sushi

21 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:58:06pm

re: #18 albusteve

can you sing and dance?...cool, pass the pipe weed

Hobbit, not hippie. lol

22 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:58:35pm

I just rented a Nova DVD documentary about the hobbits from Flores. Most excellent.

23 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:58:40pm

re: #18 albusteve

can you sing and dance?...cool, pass the pipe weed

You're all doing this on purpose, right. No Tolkien, please.

24 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:58:46pm

re: #17 Killgore Trout

God made them small so they wouldn't take up too much room on the Ark.

yes, bartenders, cabin boys and the like

25 Mikky  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:59:01pm

He sure made a ton of kids

On a serious note, 18,000? I really must be a moron I thought we were only 7,000 years old or so..

26 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:59:46pm

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

You're all doing this on purpose, right. No Tolkien, please.

Tolkien, Tolkien, pass. Don't screw up the order!

27 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:59:47pm

We are gonna need hazmat suits for those exploding heads. This is great stuff!

28 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 5:59:54pm

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

You're all doing this on purpose, right. No Tolkien, please.

it's from Lord of the Bongs

29 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:00:01pm

That looks suspiciously like my Uncle Steve. Hmmm.

30 jim in virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:00:23pm

Mr. Frodo? Is that you?

31 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:00:24pm

re: #16 jcm

Nasty hobbitses! Nasty!

So on the last thread, we had two nominations for Gollum: Rahm Emmanuel and James Carville. Which one do you favor?

32 jim in virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:01:26pm

re: #13 simonml

Ten with lots of hair. Am I a hobbit?


Depends. How tall are you?

33 Altermite  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:02:24pm
...to make creationists' heads explode.

eeeew.

Creationist brains. All over my new shirt.

34 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:02:27pm

But did they find their pipeweed stash?

35 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:02:57pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

So on the last thread, we had two nominations for Gollum: Rahm Emmanuel and James Carville. Which one do you favor?

Tough call....

I'd have to say Emmanuel he'd be closer to Sauron than Carville.

36 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:04pm

re: #30 jim in virginia

Mr. Frodo? Is that you?

Yes, it's me. I am a worthless character, who spends most of the 12 hours in this movie in a trance, treating you like shit and then I finally do something heroic, abet selfish, since I just had my damn finger chewed off by a imp that looks a lot like James Carville.

37 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:13pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

So on the last thread, we had two nominations for Gollum: Rahm Emmanuel and James Carville. Which one do you favor?

Can I make a nomination?

38 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:22pm

re: #33 Altermite

eeeew.

Creationist brains. All over my new shirt.

Really would be hardly noticeable. Very little grey matter involved.

39 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:26pm

re: #32 jim in virginia

I have discovered an evolutionary line that leads from rats to wolverines and eventually Weissmen.

/

40 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:34pm

re: #28 albusteve

it's from Lord of the Bongs

Or Tim Benzedrine from Bored of the Rings (and his chick, Hashberry)

41 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:49pm

re: #7 jcm

Okay, you're a hobbits uncle.

But not a monkey's uncle?

42 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:03:51pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

So on the last thread, we had two nominations for Gollum: Rahm Emmanuel and James Carville. Which one do you favor?

If I got to vote, it would be Carville, hands down.

43 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:04:06pm

re: #35 jcm

Tough call....

I'd have to say Emmanuel he'd be closer to Sauron than Carville.

Works for me. Emmanuel is closer to George Soros, our Sauron analogue.

44 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:04:17pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

So on the last thread, we had two nominations for Gollum: Rahm Emmanuel and James Carville. Which one do you favor?

Carville.
Rahm is more like Saruman. Gollum was corrupted by the Ring; Rahm is too evil.

45 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:04:42pm

re: #42 reine.de.tout

If I got to vote, it would be Carville, hands down.

Image: 7700.jpg

46 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:04:49pm

re: #32 jim in virginia

Depends. How tall are you?

I come up to Gandalf's hip

47 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:04:55pm

re: #42 reine.de.tout

If I got to vote, it would be Carville, hands down.

And why, dear tout, would you be ineligible to vote? You are a lizaroid minion, you gets to vote.

48 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:05:22pm

re: #40 Kosh's Shadow

Or Tim Benzedrine from Bored of the Rings (and his chick, Hashberry)

49 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:05:25pm

re: #44 Kosh's Shadow

Carville.
Rahm is more like Saruman. Gollum was corrupted by the Ring; Rahm is too evil.

Keith Olbermann is Gollum. "We hates tricksy Twitters, it's the worstest persons in the world, my precious purrfect!"

50 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:05:32pm

re: #39 OldLineTexan

I have discovered an evolutionary line that leads from rats to wolverines and eventually Weissmen.

/

Does that line also lead to Boggies?

51 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:05:33pm

So if all the creationists explode, does this mean they'll finally go away?

52 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:05:42pm

re: #47 FurryOldGuyJeans

Do I gets to vote if I admit to never, ever, ever watching this movie? And only reading the first chapter of the book?

53 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:06:31pm

re: #49 Alouette

Keith Olbermann is Gollum. "We hates tricksy Twitters, it's the worstest persons in the world, my precious purrfect!"

LOL, loves it!

54 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:06:41pm

re: #40 Kosh's Shadow

Or Tim Benzedrine from Bored of the Rings (and his chick, Hashberry)

GREAT chapter!

55 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:06:55pm

re: #52 ArmyWife

Do I gets to vote if I admit to never, ever, ever watching this movie? And only reading the first chapter of the book?

Having not a clue about the issues doesn't stop the average voter in a real election, so why should you not be able to vote? ;)

56 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:07:17pm

re: #54 OldLineTexan

GREAT chapter!

that's corrupt...I'm offended

57 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:07:26pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

So on the last thread, we had two nominations for Gollum: Rahm Emmanuel and James Carville. Which one do you favor?


Begala is Gollum.
Rahm is Saruman.
Carville is Wormtongue.

58 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:07:42pm
59 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:08:17pm

re: #51 irongrampa

So if all the creationists explode, does this mean they'll finally go away?

No, they just turn into zombies: Roaming around aimlessly, spouting Disco Institute talking points.

60 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:08:33pm

re: #39 OldLineTexan

I have discovered an evolutionary line that leads from rats to wolverines and eventually Weissmen.

/


I ain't descended from no Wiessmen!

61 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:08:50pm

Homo floresiensis was covered briefly by Jerry Coyne in his book Why Evolution Is True. Here is an interesting part:

Amazingly, floresisensis fossils date to a mere 18,000 years ago, well after Neanderthals disappeared and twenty-five centuries after modern H. sapiens had already reached Australia. The best guess is that floresisensis represents an isolated population of H. erectus that colonized Flores and was somehow bypassed by the spread of modern H. sapiens.

62 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:08:50pm

re: #58 buzzsawmonkey

I got nasty hobbits
They're on a quest with me
Gotta throw away the Ring
To keep Middle-Earth free
Being chased by riders sent by
Mordor's evil lord
Only friend I really trust is
This old Elvish sword
C'mon now, fellows! Bilbo wrote a song to sing
Maybe that's why they call us the
Fellowship of the Ring

--if the Rolling Stones had written "Lord of the Rings"

ahahaha!....oh shit...hahaa

63 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:09:33pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

No, they just turn into zombies: Roaming around aimlessly, spouting Disco Institute talking points.

They do that with unexploded heads, so why does it really matters if their heads explode or not?

64 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:09:33pm
the tiny, tool-making hunters may have roamed the island for which they were named as recently as 8,000 years ago

Wow. 8000 years ago is literally yesterday if you study history from a geological perspective.

8000 years ago (about 6000 bc) is the Neolithic period and the Mehrgarh culture was thriving in Pakistan. The Copper Age was beginning in Mesopotamia. Jericho has been a party town for at least 1000 years!

8000 years ago is yesterday.

65 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:09:41pm

re: #29 ArmyWife

That looks suspiciously like my Uncle Steve. Hmmm.

Check your feet for opposable big toes! I mean first stop typing with them.

66 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:09:42pm

re: #52 ArmyWife

Do I gets to vote if I admit to never, ever, ever watching this movie? And only reading the first chapter of the book?

I just got to see the whole three movies, directors cut, over 12 hours long, my girlfriend is a very big fan, and she showed me the DVD's, since I had never seen them.

A little to obsessive for me, on the directors part, and really, I don't think anyone could follow the plot or characters if you didn't read the book beforehand.

It's not that the movies were bad or anything, but I think the director left a lot up to the experience of the audience.

That's not fair to someone who would like to watch the movies, but has no background in the stories.

67 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:10:10pm

re: #56 albusteve

that's corrupt...I'm offended

British, eh?

68 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:10:12pm

re: #58 buzzsawmonkey

I got nasty hobbits
They're on a quest with me
Gotta throw away the Ring
To keep Middle-Earth free
Being chased by riders sent by
Mordor's evil lord
Only friend I really trust is
This old Elvish sword
C'mon now, fellows! Bilbo wrote a song to sing
Maybe that's why they call us the
Fellowship of the Ring

--if the Rolling Stones had written "Lord of the Rings"

Upding! albusteve, what do you think of this one?

69 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:10:36pm

re: #52 ArmyWife

Do I gets to vote if I admit to never, ever, ever watching this movie? And only reading the first chapter of the book?


Gads, here I thought you were a geek like the rest of us. And you're really one of the cool kids.
You can redeem yourself: Favorite Star Trek episode?

70 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:10:41pm

re: #58 buzzsawmonkey

I got nasty hobbits
They're on a quest with me
Gotta throw away the Ring
To keep Middle-Earth free
Being chased by riders sent by
Mordor's evil lord
Only friend I really trust is
This old Elvish sword
C'mon now, fellows! Bilbo wrote a song to sing
Maybe that's why they call us the
Fellowship of the Ring

--if the Rolling Stones had written "Lord of the Rings"

To the tune of what? Color me stupid.

71 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:11:19pm
72 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:11:25pm

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

To the tune of what? Color me stupid.

Can't think of the title, but it goes
I got nasty habits
I take tea at three

73 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:11:36pm

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

Upding! albusteve, what do you think of this one?

Hall of Fame....easily

74 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:11:41pm
75 ekeppich  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:11:44pm

Hmm... for it not to be descended from H. erectus is fishy- being that I don't think any other hominids made it out of Africa. If they're going to claim descent independant of H. erectus, that's going to take more evidence than a podal analysis. Especially when we don't know the bioloigcal range of the ancient population.

76 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:11:54pm

re: #64 experiencedtraveller

Wow. 8000 years ago is literally yesterday if you study history from a geological perspective.

8000 years ago (about 6000 bc) is the Neolithic period and the Mehrgarh culture was thriving in Pakistan. The Copper Age was beginning in Mesopotamia. Jericho has been a party town for at least 1000 years!

8000 years ago is yesterday.

Not possible, everything was created October 22, 4004 BC. And that's a fact!

////////////

77 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:00pm

What a daunting job, tracing our ancestors. Just thinking of the circumstances involved for a fossil to occur, it's a wonder that any exist at all.

78 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:12pm

Verrrrry interesting.

This also lends support to the controversial theory that Australian aborigines and Solomon Island natives are descended from the first out-of-Africa migration, not the second, as are most (all?) other people.

If Homo Florensis evolved on a different track than the other homo species, then it is possible that Aborigines did as well, since they are so close geographically.

If true, however, it would mean that Aborigines are not exactly the same species as homo sapiens sapiens, but rather a sub-species -- the step beyond being merely a different "ethnicity."

Needless to say, you can see how this theory is extremely controversial. There is much evidence supporting both sides of the debate.

The fact that Aborigines and non-Aborigines can combine to be make offspring prove that they are either the same species or very closely related, but it does not preculde the possibility that they are the last surviving "pure humans."

79 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:15pm

re: #71 buzzsawmonkey

"Live With Me" by the Rolling Stones.

Don't know it. I missed the 60's, taking accordion lessons.

80 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:21pm

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

I just got to see the whole three movies, directors cut, over 12 hours long, my girlfriend is a very big fan, and she showed me the DVD's, since I had never seen them.

A little to obsessive for me, on the directors part, and really, I don't think anyone could follow the plot or characters if you didn't read the book beforehand.

It's not that the movies were bad or anything, but I think the director left a lot up to the experience of the audience.

That's not fair to someone who would like to watch the movies, but has no background in the stories.

I think that was exactly the Ptere Jackson's motivation. To make a movie exactly like what every reader imagined.

Because we all remember the animated Hobbit. That just angered me soooooo much!

81 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:37pm

re: #64 experiencedtraveller

Wow. 8000 years ago is literally yesterday if you study history from a geological perspective.

8000 years ago (about 6000 bc) is the Neolithic period and the Mehrgarh culture was thriving in Pakistan. The Copper Age was beginning in Mesopotamia. Jericho has been a party town for at least 1000 years!

8000 years ago is yesterday.

And coincidentally close to the time frame the Creationist want to foist on us all as to the "true" age of the Earth.

82 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:45pm

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.

(I did all of that from memory except for the punctuation.)

83 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:51pm

re: #75 ekeppich

Hmm... for it not to be descended from H. erectus is fishy- being that I don't think any other hominids made it out of Africa. If they're going to claim descent independant of H. erectus, that's going to take more evidence than a podal analysis. Especially when we don't know the bioloigcal range of the ancient population.

Welcome YEC.

84 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:52pm

Oh, NO's.
2 more Gaps of Rohan !

85 pbird  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:12:55pm

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

I just got to see the whole three movies, directors cut, over 12 hours long, my girlfriend is a very big fan, and she showed me the DVD's, since I had never seen them.

A little to obsessive for me, on the directors part, and really, I don't think anyone could follow the plot or characters if you didn't read the book beforehand.

It's not that the movies were bad or anything, but I think the director left a lot up to the experience of the audience.

That's not fair to someone who would like to watch the movies, but has no background in the stories.

I watched em and didn't read the books and they made good enough sense to me. I did notice a lot of experts having cows about what was left out. Oh well.
Could have done with a better Frodo. He was hard to bear.

86 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:13:03pm

re: #69 Jim in Virginia

Star Wars.

87 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:13:15pm

re: #80 simonml

I think that was exactly the Ptere Jackson's motivation. To make a movie exactly like what every reader imagined.

Because we all remember the animated Hobbit. That just angered me soooooo much!

No I don't remember that, thank goodness.

88 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:13:19pm

re: #76 jcm

Not possible, everything was created October 22, 4004 BC. And that's a fact!

////////////

Sorry, 5769 years ago, making it 3760 BCE.
/

89 stuiec  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:13:41pm

re: #61 Sharmuta

Homo floresiensis was covered briefly by Jerry Coyne in his book Why Evolution Is True. Here is an interesting part:

The Polynesians that colonized Hawaii developed legends of the little people who'd lived there before -- some legends said the little people were still living there when the Polynesians arrived. I wonder if it's possible that a pocket of similar hominids had made it to Hawaii and survived there until the Polynesians displaced them.

90 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:13:54pm

re: #85 pbird

I watched em and didn't read the books and they made good enough sense to me. I did notice a lot of experts having cows about what was left out. Oh well.
Could have done with a better Frodo. He was hard to bear.

I'm stupid.

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:14:30pm

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

I liked LotR, but that right there is just plain funny.

92 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:14:49pm

re: #84 SasquatchOnSteroids

Oh, NO's.
2 more Gaps of Rohan !

To what are you referring?

93 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:15:06pm

An example of Human Dwarfism? Relatively large creatures tend to shrink in size on small islands

94 Detector  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:15:12pm

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

make you wonder yeahh?

95 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:15:32pm

re: #69 Jim in Virginia

Gads, here I thought you were a geek like the rest of us. And you're really one of the cool kids.
You can redeem yourself: Favorite Star Trek episode?

Can I butt in? "Trials and Tribble-ations"

I'm more of a TNG fan myself

96 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:15:37pm

Live With Me


97 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:15:41pm

re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth

I liked LotR, but that right there is just plain funny.

Thank you.

98 pbird  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:15:59pm

re: #90 Walter L. Newton

I'm stupid.

You don't have to be that way about it.

99 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:16:12pm

re: #82 MandyManners

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.

(I did all of that from memory except for the punctuation.)

Well done! My memory woks in the exact opposite way.

. , '. . . ' . . , , .

(The punctuation to the first paragraph of The Brothers Karamazov)

100 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:16:38pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

make you wonder yeahh?

No, it doesn't. Welcome YEC. The entrance to the DI convention is to your left. Take a name tag and sit down.

101 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:16:56pm

re: #88 Kosh's Shadow

Sorry, 5769 years ago, making it 3760 BCE.
/

What? you saying Bishop Ussher is WRONG!

HERETIC!

/ ;-P

102 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:17:11pm

re: #65 dwells38

Are you linked into my lizardcam? Because I can pinch with my toes, and sometimes, at night, I'll "bedshark" my husband..

too much?

(I made this up)

103 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:17:26pm

"Fit to Rule"
(Part of 5)

104 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:17:31pm

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

The extended versions do make it easier for someone not truly conversant with the books to follow the story. LoTR is as rich, detailed, and complex a story as is Dune. Time is needed to let the story unfold.

105 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:17:55pm

"Fit to Rule"
(Part 2 of 5)

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:17:57pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

No, they just turn into zombies: Roaming around aimlessly, spouting Disco Institute talking points.

Shit, it's already happened, and we didn't even notice.
/

107 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:07pm

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Welcome YEC.

How did you get from that post to YEC?

108 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:13pm

re: #98 pbird

You don't have to be that way about it.

No, I am, in regards to that movie, I was not being smart-assed toward you. I watch all three movies last month, with two BIG fans, so I had added commentary and info when I needed it, and I still did not quite get what was going on.

And I watch them sober.

109 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:14pm

"Fit to Rule"
(Part 3 of 5)

110 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:17pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

To what are you referring?

Just the fact that tweeners create new gaps for the creationists.
Where's the ______ and ________ ?

111 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:43pm

"Fit to Rule"
(Part 4 of 5)

112 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:50pm

re: #104 FurryOldGuyJeans

The extended versions do make it easier for someone not truly conversant with the books to follow the story. LoTR is as rich, detailed, and complex a story as is Dune. Time is needed to let the story unfold.

Well, it didn't make it easier for me.

113 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:18:58pm

Ew. Paula Abdul is lip syncing on American Idol.

(I swear. I was watching Octopussy on Ion Television and channel surfing during commercials. Its positively entertaining)

114 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:19:04pm

"Fit to Rule"
(Part 5 of 5)

115 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:19:14pm

re: #104 FurryOldGuyJeans

The extended versions do make it easier for someone not truly conversant with the books to follow the story. LoTR is as rich, detailed, and complex a story as is Dune. Time is needed to let the story unfold.

Dune being a bit easier for our times, since the Fremen are Jihadists.

/

116 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:19:18pm

Don't be silly, the scientific explanation is, these miniature fossils were created at the same time everything else was to test our faith!

117 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:19:40pm

re: #107 OldLineTexan

How did you get from that post to YEC?

Just a feeling. If I'm wrong, I'll say it. let's see.

118 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:19:43pm

I'm surprised there hasn't yet been a reference to "Lucy" by a creationist troll. Must give it more time.....

119 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:19:43pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

Well, it didn't make it easier for me.

I get confused myself, Walter, and I like and own the movies on DVD.

120 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:19:48pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

perhaps that was the problem! We own the box set. I'm still not watching.

121 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:20:11pm

You're a hard hobbit to break

--Chicago

122 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:20:16pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

make you wonder yeahh?

No, not really.

123 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:20:33pm

Here's a quick article from the Australian Science Media Centre from 2007, with info about a recent DNA study which suggested that Aborigines are not related in any way to the Flores Island inhabitants. It also has a very brief overview of the controversy, though it does not mention any of the opposing evidence. (Which, by the way, is strongly promoted by Chinese scientists, for the exact opposite reason from what you'd expect.)

124 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:20:51pm

re: #116 Danny

Don't be silly, the scientific explanation is, these miniature fossils were created at the same time everything else was to test our faith!

Hey Danny, if that was meant to be funny or sarcastic, a word of friendly advice, use a sarcasm tag at the end of you post so we know for sure that you are not serious. A sarcasm tag is a forward slash/

125 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:21:21pm

re: #89 stuiec

The Polynesians that colonized Hawaii developed legends of the little people who'd lived there before -- some legends said the little people were still living there when the Polynesians arrived. I wonder if it's possible that a pocket of similar hominids had made it to Hawaii and survived there until the Polynesians displaced them.

They must've gone to Ireland as well.

/

126 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:21:44pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

Just a feeling. If I'm wrong, I'll say it. let's see.

Doesn't really answer the question, but whatever.

127 Egregious Philbin  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:22:11pm

My theory is that human brains shrink when they start believing creationism.

Satan did it.

128 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:22:25pm

re: #110 SasquatchOnSteroids

Just the fact that tweeners create new gaps for the creationists.
Where's the ______ and ________ ?

Let them raise that argument. Once Salamantis gets a hold of it, they'll be left with egg on their faces and their brand-new Disco Institute talking point will be in pieces at their feet. Bwa-ha-ha-ha!

129 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:22:32pm

Speaking of creationists, I saw Casey Luskin this morning on Fox news, talking about those old Haeckel embryo drawings (they could be in your child textbook right now!).

130 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:22:37pm

re: #120 ArmyWife

perhaps that was the problem! We own the box set. I'm still not watching.

No, my girlfriend and daughter were very helpful, and great fans. I'm not a big fan of fantasy in the first place, and for what ever reason, I found the plot and characters very hard to follow.

131 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:22:47pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

make you wonder yeahh?

Velociraptor.

132 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:22:56pm

re: #101 jcm

What? you saying Bishop Ussher is WRONG!

HERETIC!

/ ;-P


BURN HIM!

133 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:22:56pm

Good evening lizardom. Is anyone else having trouble with LGF loading sloooowly? So we have a slap down of the neonazis and now this. Sheesh. I go to the back end of nowhere for 2 days and all hell breaks loose!

134 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:23:20pm

re: #89 stuiec

I think pretty much everyone has legends of little people. And dog headed people, too for that matter.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

There was even a dog headed saint (allegedly).

So far the scientific search for dogheads has come up empty though.

135 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:23:28pm

re: #89 stuiec

The Polynesians that colonized Hawaii developed legends of the little people who'd lived there before -- some legends said the little people were still living there when the Polynesians arrived. I wonder if it's possible that a pocket of similar hominids had made it to Hawaii and survived there until the Polynesians displaced them.

There have been studies done to show that oral histories can be quite accurate, but without fossils being found in the Hawaiian islands, that will remain a myth.

136 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:23:34pm

re: #132 Jim in Virginia

BURN HIM!

I thought we were just floating them now?

/

137 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:23:40pm

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

No, my girlfriend and daughter were very helpful, and great fans. I'm not a big fan of fantasy in the first place, and for what ever reason, I found the plot and characters very hard to follow.

that says alot about 'Lost' then....LOTR is very simple

138 funky chicken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:23:42pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

I watched them and have read some of them. I don't see why people love them so much, but, hey different strokes and all.

The special effects were really cool on a friend's big HD TV.

139 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:23:44pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

The chiken, obviously.

140 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:24:19pm

re: #136 OldLineTexan
If he floats...He's a duck!

141 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:24:20pm

From the link:
Recent archeological evidence from Kenya shows that the modern foot evolved more than 1.5 million years ago, most likely in Homo erectus.

Wait a sec..The earth is only 6000 years old! How did that happen? I'll bet somebody photo shopped nature again...
/

142 jamespcl  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:24:25pm

I liked the carswams more better...

143 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:24:28pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

make you wonder yeahh?

Egg, obviously. Dinosaurs laid eggs, which hatched to produce dinosaurs that evolved into chickens.

/ is it sarcasm, or is it memorex?

144 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:02pm

re: #138 funky chicken

I watched them and have read some of them. I don't see why people love them so much, but, hey different strokes and all.

The special effects were really cool on a friend's big HD TV.

Special effects? I thought that was real?

145 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:11pm

re: #127 Egregious Philbin

My theory is that human brains shrink when they start believing creationism.

Appartently, these skulls shrank in an old-fashioned way:

And how could such a being have been smart enough to craft its own stone tools?
The only plausible explanation, they insisted, was that the handful of specimens found suffered from a genetic disorder resulting in an abnormally small skull or -- a more recent finding -- that they suffered from "dwarf cretinism" caused by deficient thyroids

146 AMER1CAN  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:16pm

I loved my biology classes when back in college and even had the chance to go see "Lucy" when she came to Houston. It was an awesome experience for those who might be wondering about going if it comes to a museum near you. It's a must experience!

147 pbird  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:17pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

No, I am, in regards to that movie, I was not being smart-assed toward you. I watch all three movies last month, with two BIG fans, so I had added commentary and info when I needed it, and I still did not quite get what was going on.

And I watch them sober.

Otay.

148 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:18pm

re: #142 jamespcl

I liked the carswams more better...

Do you like the ones with chikens?

/

149 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:20pm

re: #142 jamespcl

Heckuva first post (after registering in 2007).

/

150 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:28pm

re: #142 jamespcl

And I like good grammar.

151 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:46pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

A nest?

152 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:46pm

re: #143 FurryOldGuyJeans

Egg, obviously. Dinosaurs laid eggs, which hatched to produce dinosaurs that evolved into chickens.

/ is it sarcasm, or is it memorex?

Nope, I had dinosaur for dinner tonight.

153 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:47pm

re: #133 pingjockey

Good evening lizardom. Is anyone else having trouble with LGF loading sloooowly? So we have a slap down of the neonazis and now this. Sheesh. I go to the back end of nowhere for 2 days and all hell breaks loose!

Somtimes LGF going slowly is just a way for the interwebs to tell you to slow your life down. Take a drink, watch a rock grow, breathe deeply for once.

154 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:25:56pm

jamespcl

Registered since: Sep 20, 2007 at 5:42 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

155 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:26:06pm

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

No, my girlfriend and daughter were very helpful, and great fans. I'm not a big fan of fantasy in the first place, and for what ever reason, I found the plot and characters very hard to follow.

LoTR is the THE template by which all other fantasy stories are judged. It can be a bit offputting and hard to follow for some.

156 jdog29  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:26:08pm

He looks like my grandfather's identical twin brother!

157 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:26:24pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg?

make you wonder yeahh?

Not really.

158 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:26:25pm

I see the article from AFP is up on Breitbart -- nice.

They also have a video up on the topic:

REMAINS OF THREE-FOOT-TALL HUMANS DISCOVERED ON REMOTE INDONESIAN ISLAND

159 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:26:25pm

re: #137 albusteve

that says alot about 'Lost' then....LOTR is very simple

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Are you in a make smart assed remarks mood tonight. I wasn't putting LOTR down. Read my remarks above. I was stating that I, ME, MOI, MYSLEF, was having trouble understanding the plot.

160 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:26:31pm

re: #150 Sharmuta

And I like good grammar.

My grammar would've liked you, too.

She also liked chiken, but I doubt she ever saw a carswam.

161 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:27:28pm

re: #141 HoosierHoops

From the link:
Recent archeological evidence from Kenya shows that the modern foot evolved more than 1.5 million years ago, most likely in Homo erectus.

Wait a sec..The earth is only 6000 years old! How did that happen? I'll bet somebody photo shopped nature again...
/

In keeping with the earlier tie-ins, that would be Frodo-shopped.

162 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:27:44pm

re: #154 Sharmuta

jamespcl

Registered since: Sep 20, 2007 at 5:42 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

I get a possible whiff of moby or gamey troll buttocks.

163 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:27:48pm

re: #157 Slumbering Behemoth

Classic.

164 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:27:52pm

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Are you in a make smart assed remarks mood tonight. I wasn't putting LOTR down. Read my remarks above. I was stating that I, ME, MOI, MYSLEF, was having trouble understanding the plot.

there are Cliff Notes you know.....okay, jus kidding

165 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:28:32pm

re: #77 irongrampa

What a daunting job, tracing our ancestors.

Thing is, these "hobbits" are not our ancestors, but if indeed a separate species then merely distant cousins, with a common ancestor to us.

166 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:28:33pm

Indeed, watch for heads exploding. These guys certainly count as human if we make believe that there's a sharp line, with tool making humans on one side and non-sentient animals on the other.

And are these humans made in God's image? If so, some noses are going to get bent out of shape...thet little fella jist don't look lak Gawd. If not, why not? Are they evolutionary cousins, then, but not really exactly Homo Sapiens?

167 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:28:54pm

re: #153 simonml
I did that for the last 2 days! No tv, radio cell phone. It was nice, except work was involved.

168 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:29:00pm

N Gauge Humans //

169 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:29:05pm

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Are you in a make smart assed remarks mood tonight. I wasn't putting LOTR down. Read my remarks above. I was stating that I, ME, MOI, MYSLEF, was having trouble understanding the plot.

I think someone is trying to tweak your nose a bit, Walter. Your obsession regarding Lost is legendary.

170 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:29:16pm

re: #164 albusteve

there are Cliff Notes you know.....okay, jus kidding

Just for that, I'm gonna leave LGF, for at least an hour, in a little while, around 8:00pm mountain time. Yea, you'll all myth me when I'm gone.

LOST will be on.

171 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:29:54pm

re: #166 lostlakehiker

Indeed, watch for heads exploding. These guys certainly count as human if we make believe that there's a sharp line, with tool making humans on one side and non-sentient animals on the other.

And are these humans made in God's image? If so, some noses are going to get bent out of shape...thet little fella jist don't look lak Gawd. If not, why not? Are they evolutionary cousins, then, but not really exactly Homo Sapiens?

Indeed. It'll be fun to watch the DI try to spin its way out of this one.

172 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:04pm

re: #170 Walter L. Newton

Just for that, I'm gonna leave LGF, for at least an hour, in a little while, around 8:00pm mountain time. Yea, you'll all myth me when I'm gone.

LOST will be on.

good, I'll shower, come back and abuse you some more....

173 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:09pm

re: #159 Walter L. Newton
Hobbits=good
Orcs=bad

174 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:09pm

re: #161 solomonpanting

In keeping with the earlier tie-ins, that would be Frodo-shopped.

Frodo-shopping:

1 green cloak
2 linen shirts
2 woolen breeches
1 rope belt
1 strangely 20th-century US backpack
1 lightweight chain
2 tubes foot cream
1 foot comb
1 tube sunscreen
8 cans "Gollum" repellant

175 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:29pm

re: #169 FurryOldGuyJeans

I think someone is trying to tweak your nose a bit, Walter. Your obsession regarding Lost is legendary.

Because that's real, that's important, the future of the whole world is dependent on what happens, or else, we are going to be swallowed by a black hole or something. :)

176 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:30pm

re: #165 freetoken

Thing is, these "hobbits" are not our ancestors, but if indeed a separate species then merely distant cousins, with a common ancestor to us.

You may have just forestalled tonight's meltdown by a hundred comments or so.

177 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:39pm

And here is a Chinese scientific paper with evidence to the contrary, from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science USA. The conclusion is, "This morphological pattern implies that a simple spread of modern humans from Africa is unlikely." I.e. in other words, folks from the second out-of-Africa migration must have interbred with folks from the first out-of-Africa migration.

178 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:30:58pm

re: #170 Walter L. Newton

Just for that, I'm gonna leave LGF, for at least an hour, in a little while, around 8:00pm mountain time. Yea, you'll all myth me when I'm gone.

LOST will be on.

Enjoy yourslef!

/

179 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:31:10pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

No, I am, in regards to that movie, I was not being smart-assed toward you. I watch all three movies last month, with two BIG fans, so I had added commentary and info when I needed it, and I still did not quite get what was going on.

And I watch them sober.

I've often wondered what it would've been like to start with The Hobbit. Tom Bombadil, wood elves and the dragon! Beorn!

180 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:31:11pm

re: #78 zombie

There is much evidence supporting both sides of the debate.

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!

/oops....

181 stuiec  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:32:15pm

re: #125 OldLineTexan

They must've gone to Ireland as well.

/


Don't be so sure they didn't.

If the researchers are correct, then the Flores people diverged from the "main" branch of human evolution at least 1.5 million years ago. That means that this species survived in parallel with other hominids as the latter evolved into Homo sapiens.

How far did they disperse? Did their survival depend on finding isolated places like islands in which they didn't have to compete with larger, stronger hominids?

Why wouldn't it be possible that a branch of that species migrated northward to Europe just as they migrated eastward to Asia? Why couldn't they have survived in Ireland until the first coming of Homo sapiens to that island?

The Floriensis fossils prove that 'little people' existed right up to the time of the ascendancy of Homo sapiens sapiens. Seems perfectly plausible that the various legends of little people might thus have a basis in fact.

182 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:32:27pm

LORD OF THE BLOGS

FRODO BAGGINS: Charles Johnson
SAMWISE GAMGEE: Stinky Beaumont
BILBO BAGGINS: Buzzsawmonkey
GANDALF: Richard Landes
ARAGORN: Michael Yon
LEGOLAS: zombie
GIMLI: Iowahawk
BOROMIR:
KING THEODEN: Allahpundit
EOWYN:
GRIMA WORMTONGUE: Robert Spencer
GOLLUM: Pamela Geller
SARUMAN:
SAURON: Huffington Post

Help me fill this in, and suggest your own.

183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:32:46pm

re: #133 pingjockey

Good evening lizardom. Is anyone else having trouble with LGF loading sloooowly?

No, I can load it sloooowly just fine. :)

184 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:32:51pm

re: #166 lostlakehiker

Indeed, watch for heads exploding. These guys certainly count as human if we make believe that there's a sharp line, with tool making humans on one side and non-sentient animals on the other.

And are these humans made in God's image? If so, some noses are going to get bent out of shape...thet little fella jist don't look lak Gawd. If not, why not? Are they evolutionary cousins, then, but not really exactly Homo Sapiens?

If we are created in God's image, does that mean he has a penis, and if so, did he have a wife like the early Hebrew text ?

185 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:32:52pm

re: #170 Walter L. Newton

Just for that, I'm gonna leave LGF, for at least an hour, in a little while, around 8:00pm mountain time. Yea, you'll all myth me when I'm gone.

LOST will be on.


I'm watching now, shall I tell you what happens?

186 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:32:56pm

re: #165 freetoken

Thing is, these "hobbits" are not our ancestors, but if indeed a separate species then merely distant cousins, with a common ancestor to us.

That is correct.

187 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:33:02pm

re: #94 Detector

What come first the chiken or the egg? but what was there before the egg? blockquote>

The dinosaur

188 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:33:08pm

re: #176 Last Mohican

You may have just forestalled tonight's meltdown by a hundred comments or so.

Unlikely IMO... after all, we know that our common ancestor was named "Adam" ...

189 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:33:24pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

Because that's real, that's important, the future of the whole world is dependent on what happens, or else, we are going to be swallowed by a black hole or something. :)

I'm recording LOST on TIVO Walter...Do you Want me to tell you the ending in 20 minutes? *wink*

190 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:33:45pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth
Okay, okay. Heh.

191 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:33:49pm

re: #173 pingjockey

Hobbits=good
Orcs=bad

Yea, but there were Rangers, and some woman who kept having dreams, and Mr. Smith from Matrix had funny ears, and James Carville was playing the part of some imp named Gollum, who had a real problem with dual personalities, and Frodo was worthless most of the time, and there were "men" and dead people, and someone borrowed some talking trees from Oz (or were the Vogons, just as boring) and the was NO sex, not a single bit of naked flesh, and only ONE drawf, why did the drawf's get screwed out of parts in this movie, and...

It was confusing.

192 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:33:49pm

Fierce hobbits on the hunt:

In spite of their downsized brains, the little people apparently had sophisticated technology. The fireplaces, charred bones, and thousands of stone tools we found among their remains must have been their handiwork, for we found no sign of modern humans. Stone points, probably once hafted onto spears, turned up among stegodont bones, some of which bore cut marks. The little hominins were apparently hunting the biggest animals around. It was surely a group activity—adult stegodonts, although dwarfed, still weighed more than 800 pounds (363 kilograms), formidable prey for hunters the size of preschool children.
[Link: ngm.nationalgeographic.com...]
193 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:33:51pm

re: #174 OldLineTexan

Frodo-shopping:

1 green cloak
2 linen shirts
2 woolen breeches
1 rope belt
1 strangely 20th-century US backpack
1 lightweight chain
2 tubes foot cream
1 foot comb
1 tube sunscreen
8 cans "Gollum" repellant

You forgot the mithril chain-mail.

194 ekeppich  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:15pm

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

YEC?

195 stuiec  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:17pm

re: #134 Jimmah

Nice. Except here we have actual fossil evidence of little people, so the comparison to the dog-headed legends is inapt.

196 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:34pm

re: #154 Sharmuta

jamespcl

Registered since: Sep 20, 2007 at 5:42 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

Failure to launch.

197 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:40pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton
Mwahahahaa! That's good.

198 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:40pm

re: #179 MandyManners

I've often wondered what it would've been like to start with The Hobbit. Tom Bombadil, wood elves and the dragon! Beorn!

Sounds like it would make a tasty snack.

199 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:53pm

re: #193 MandyManners

You forgot the mithril chain-mail.

And a few cakes of lembas.

200 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:54pm

re: #142 jamespcl

I liked the carswams more better...

That's pretty sick, and does not speak well of your mental health.

201 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:56pm

I wonder if they didn't branch off from Lucy.

202 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:34:59pm

re: #184 avanti

Are you serious?

203 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:35:18pm

re: #189 HoosierHoops

I'm recording LOST on TIVO Walter...Do you Want me to tell you the ending in 20 minutes? *wink*

Yes, 2 day it on Fedex! :)

204 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:35:18pm

re: #129 jaunte

Speaking of creationists, I saw Casey Luskin this morning on Fox news, talking about those old Haeckel embryo drawings (they could be in your child textbook right now!).

They would have to be very old text books, those drawings are over 100 years old.

205 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:35:19pm
206 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:35:31pm

re: #182 Alouette

LORD OF THE BLOGS

FRODO BAGGINS: Charles Johnson
SAMWISE GAMGEE: Stinky Beaumont
BILBO BAGGINS: Buzzsawmonkey
GANDALF: Richard Landes
ARAGORN: Michael Yon
LEGOLAS: zombie
GIMLI: Iowahawk
BOROMIR:
KING THEODEN: Allahpundit
EOWYN:
GRIMA WORMTONGUE: Robert Spencer
GOLLUM: Pamela Geller
SARUMAN:
SAURON: Huffington Post

Help me fill this in, and suggest your own.

albusteve...insignificant orc

207 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:35:35pm

re: #181 stuiec

Don't be so sure they didn't.

If the researchers are correct, then the Flores people diverged from the "main" branch of human evolution at least 1.5 million years ago. That means that this species survived in parallel with other hominids as the latter evolved into Homo sapiens.

How far did they disperse? Did their survival depend on finding isolated places like islands in which they didn't have to compete with larger, stronger hominids?

Why wouldn't it be possible that a branch of that species migrated northward to Europe just as they migrated eastward to Asia? Why couldn't they have survived in Ireland until the first coming of Homo sapiens to that island?

The Floriensis fossils prove that 'little people' existed right up to the time of the ascendancy of Homo sapiens sapiens. Seems perfectly plausible that the various legends of little people might thus have a basis in fact.

Recent studies have shown that these original Irish were able to consume vast amounts of alcohol. Though a drinking competition between the "first" and "second" Irish folks resulted in the alcohol poisoning and subsequent extinction of the "first" or "original" hobbit sized Irish folk

/

208 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:36:14pm

re: #182 Alouette

LORD OF THE BLOGS

FRODO BAGGINS: Charles Johnson
SAMWISE GAMGEE: Stinky Beaumont
BILBO BAGGINS: Buzzsawmonkey
GANDALF: Richard Landes
ARAGORN: Michael Yon
LEGOLAS: zombie
GIMLI: Iowahawk
BOROMIR:
KING THEODEN: Allahpundit
EOWYN:
GRIMA WORMTONGUE: Robert Spencer
GOLLUM: Pamela Geller
SARUMAN:
SAURON: Huffington Post

Help me fill this in, and suggest your own.

Galadriel: goddessoftheclassroom.

209 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:36:25pm

re: #205 Iron Fist

Heh... we have the first GW diversion... and from a not-expected source...

210 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:36:39pm

re: #181 stuiec

Don't be so sure they didn't.

I'm not really sure of any of it, since it's not a field I'm especially well-versed in, but thanks, anyway. I'm pretty sure that many legends have basis in reality. Tolkien clearly and pointedly borrowed from European mythos to create his non-human races. The English stories of wary little people are clearly the beginnings of hobbits.

211 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:36:58pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

I wonder if they didn't branch off from Lucy.

Fred and Ethel had their own show?

212 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:37:18pm
213 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:37:21pm

re: #204 avanti

He was telling people to check their kids books, because he was interested in "good science" and it was well known that inaccuracies like those drawings were prevalent in the teaching of evolution. No one on the morning show challenged his take on it.

214 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:37:27pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Yea, but there were Rangers, and some woman who kept having dreams, and Mr. Smith from Matrix had funny ears, and James Carville was playing the part of some imp named Gollum, who had a real problem with dual personalities, and Frodo was worthless most of the time, and there were "men" and dead people, and someone borrowed some talking trees from Oz (or were the Vogons, just as boring) and the was NO sex, not a single bit of naked flesh, and only ONE drawf, why did the drawf's get screwed out of parts in this movie, and...

It was confusing.

There were several dwarfs at the "Fellowship of the Ring" to decide the fate of the ring. Apparently the women look just like the men, so one dwarf is enough... at least for me

215 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:37:51pm

re: #211 solomonpanting

Fred and Ethel had their own show?

Lord of the Mertz...big hit

216 Liberal Classic  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:37:54pm

re: #11 albusteve

it's all in the toes...check yer toes people

re: #13 simonml

Ten with lots of hair. Am I a hobbit?

Elf-maidens love hairy toes.

217 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:37:55pm

re: #193 MandyManners

You forgot the mithril chain-mail.

That was a GIFT!

/geek-point deduction, I am afraid ;)

218 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:02pm

re: #206 albusteve

albusteve...insignificant orc

OR and FBV = Merry and Pippin

219 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:12pm

re: #214 simonml

There were several dwarfs at the "Fellowship of the Ring" to decide the fate of the ring. Apparently the women look just like the men, so one dwarf is enough... at least for me

They were French dwarf's?

220 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:22pm

re: #182 Alouette

LORD OF THE BLOGS

FRODO BAGGINS: Charles Johnson
SAMWISE GAMGEE: Stinky Beaumont
BILBO BAGGINS: Buzzsawmonkey
GANDALF: Richard Landes
ARAGORN: Michael Yon
LEGOLAS: zombie
GIMLI: Iowahawk
BOROMIR:
KING THEODEN: Allahpundit
EOWYN:
GRIMA WORMTONGUE: Robert Spencer
GOLLUM: Pamela Geller
SARUMAN:
SAURON: Huffington Post

Help me fill this in, and suggest your own.

Ugluk: MandyManners

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!

221 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:30pm

Been trying to work off the office network on AutoCAD via a wireless VPN connection. The internet is magic but it's still way to slow. Sigh.
Besides LGF is much more interesting.

222 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:33pm

re: #182 Alouette

LORD OF THE BLOGS

FRODO BAGGINS: Charles Johnson
SAMWISE GAMGEE: Stinky Beaumont
BILBO BAGGINS: Buzzsawmonkey
GANDALF: Richard Landes
ARAGORN: Michael Yon
LEGOLAS: zombie
GIMLI: Iowahawk
BOROMIR: Ace of Spades
KING THEODEN: Allahpundit
EOWYN:
GRIMA WORMTONGUE: Robert Spencer
GOLLUM: Pamela Geller
SARUMAN: Media Matters
SAURON: Huffington Post

Help me fill this in, and suggest your own.

My picks are bolded.

223 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:34pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

I wonder if they didn't branch off from Lucy.

Consensus says says we all branched off from Lucy.

224 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:35pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

Works for me. Emmanuel is closer to George Soros, our Sauron analogue.

Obama is Ar Pharazon, the prideful Numenorean king who attacked the Valar and the Undying Lands and caused the fall of Numenor.

225 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:40pm

re: #216 Liberal Classic

Elf-maidens love hairy toes.

elf-madenz r teh hawt!

226 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:45pm

re: #192 jaunte

That answers the bar-b-que question!

All joking aside, it's just fascinating. I'd love to learn more about their relationships - did they pair off? Form family units within a tribe? If the article goes in to this, I' can go read it - just tell me I'm being lazy.

227 nyc redneck  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:50pm

a tiny (3' tall) tool making hunter that weighed 65 lbs.
w/ a chimp like weight bearing foot structure.
it may have roamed the island as recently as 8000 yrs.a go.
it branched off of the human line over 1.5 million yrs. ago.
just went it's own way and survived well, until very recently, in the fossil record.
it is incredible to imagine all the lost species that branched off the line of
hominoids that would eventually lead to humans.
it was a very successful little creature. far more intelligent than any monkey or
ape living today none of whom use tools in any meaningful way.
i bet it bet it competed w/ modern humans and they wiped it out.

228 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:52pm

re: #215 albusteve

Lord of the Mertz...big hit

Weren't they Middle Earth Creationists?

229 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:38:56pm

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

They were French dwarf's?

is that a JOKE?

230 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:39:16pm

re: #182 Alouette

Can I be Eowyn? I'd like to take out the King of the Nazgul.

231 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:39:17pm

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

They were French dwarf's?

LOL!

232 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:39:48pm

re: #184 avanti

If we are created in God's image, does that mean he has a penis, and if so, did he have a wife like the early Hebrew text ?


Are you a Mormon?

233 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:39:54pm

re: #216 Liberal Classic

Elf-maidens love hairy toes.

I am a maiden magnet then.

234 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:40:15pm

re: #230 Sharmuta

Can I be Eowyn? I'd like to take out the King of the Nazgul.

EOWYN: Sharmuta
KING OF THE NAZGUL: The stalker blog

235 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:40:22pm

re: #227 nyc redneck

National Geographic says:

There's no sign of modern humans at Liang Bua before 11,000 years ago, following a large volcanic eruption that would have wiped out any Homo floresiensis in the region. But other bands may have hung on elsewhere in Flores. Perhaps modern humans did meet their ancient neighbors before something—maybe a changing environment, maybe competition or conflict with modern humans themselves—spelled the end for the little people. Further excavations on Flores, and on nearby islands that might have had their own hobbits, may settle the question.
236 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:40:28pm

Who are we casting as King of the Nazgul, btw?

237 Stonemason  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:40:38pm
So unless the Flores hobbits became more primitive over time — a more-than-unlikely scenario — they must have branched off the human line at an even earlier date.

And why is that? Serious question here, why is reverse evolution not a possibilty? Creatures with eyes revert back when stuck in complete dark, and there are other aspects, I am just not knowlegeable in them. Why would it not be possible that this form of human reverted being stuck on that island?

238 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:40:46pm

re: #234 Alouette

EOWYN: Sharmuta
KING OF THE NAZGUL: The stalker blog

Never mind my 236 then.

239 stuiec  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:40:54pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

There have been studies done to show that oral histories can be quite accurate, but without fossils being found in the Hawaiian islands, that will remain a myth.


It might be a good reason to look for fossil evidence. If I recall correctly, there were two known periods of human colonization of the Hawaiian islands. Archaeologists say that the Menehune legends refer to the ruins left behind by the first wave, like the Menehune Fishpond on Kauai. But the description of the Menehune fits with the Floriensis people -- so at first blush, it's not inconceivable that they might have existed there and had their remains destroyed by later human habitation.

The question is whether primitive hominids of that type could have navigated over the ocean. In the last 1.5 million years, there were likely lots of times that the sea was so low that they could have walked between what are now islands in Indonesia, but there was never a time when there was a land bridge to Hawaii.

240 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:41:18pm

re: #226 ArmyWife

That answers the bar-b-que question!

All joking aside, it's just fascinating. I'd love to learn more about their relationships - did they pair off? Form family units within a tribe? If the article goes in to this, I' can go read it - just tell me I'm being lazy.

We have video.....

/// ;-P

241 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:41:25pm

re: #232 Jim in Virginia

Avanti. Are you a Mormon/strike>

242 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:41:28pm

re: #224 LGoPs

Obama is Ar Pharazon, the prideful Numenorean king who attacked the Valar and the Undying Lands and caused the fall of Numenor.

Not bad, but Obama seems closer to the Lord of the Nazgul to me. Soros intends to use Obama to accomplish his ends, but he doesn't want to throw him under the bus as Sauron planned to do to Ar Pharazon.

243 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:41:35pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

Who are we casting as King of the Nazgul, btw?

John Kerry. King of the Wraiths

245 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:41:42pm

re: #220 MandyManners

Ugluk: MandyManners

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!

That is just a softball over the plate.. I'll refrain..But the first thing that came into my mind was really funny...
/eating ice cream...

246 Biocritic  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:41:55pm

I don't see how this is any different than Neanderthals or other pre modern humans. What's the fuss?

247 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:42:10pm

re: #241 Walter L. Newton

No, I guess I am. HTML for dummies, I get the book.

248 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:43:03pm

re: #240 jcm

We have video.....


/// ;-P

Hey, no posting DI propaganda here!

////

249 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:43:12pm

re: #206 albusteve

albusteve...insignificant orc

I wish to be Ghân-buri-Ghân.

Some of you are going to need to drive away this darkness for me with bright spears, please.

250 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:43:12pm

re: #246 Biocritic

With a nic like that, you'll go far.

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:43:25pm

re: #230 Sharmuta

Can I be Eowyn? I'd like to take out the King of the Nazgul.

re: #236 Sharmuta

Who are we casting as King of the Nazgul, btw?

Me. You can take me out this friday. Pizza and beer, I'm a cheap date.

253 jdog29  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:43:26pm

The core of the Earth is not magma. There are only pockets of magma under every volcano. //

254 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:43:50pm

re: #228 solomonpanting

Weren't they Middle Earth Creationists?

Freakin' damned AWESOME!

255 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:05pm

re: #237 Stonemason

And why is that? Serious question here, why is reverse evolution not a possibilty? Creatures with eyes revert back when stuck in complete dark, and there are other aspects, I am just not knowlegeable in them. Why would it not be possible that this form of human reverted being stuck on that island?

Evolution moves neither forwards nor backwards. It just moves. We "see" a progression of evolution because there is a natural selection for "stronger" traits, thus "weaker" traits tend to die out relatively regularly.

256 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:05pm

re: #210 OldLineTexan

I'm not really sure of any of it, since it's not a field I'm especially well-versed in, but thanks, anyway. I'm pretty sure that many legends have basis in reality. Tolkien clearly and pointedly borrowed from European mythos to create his non-human races. The English stories of wary little people are clearly the beginnings of hobbits.

I've seen speculation that some Celtic groups- or maybe even earlier inhabitants of Britain- were pushed back by the Romans and then the Danes/ Angles/ Normans. They were never conquered, just hiding.

257 Izzy Dunne  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:05pm

NOVA
Check out the ALIEN FROM EARTH and earlier LITTLE PEOPLE OF FLORES episodes of the NOVA program.

258 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:10pm

You can tell that guy was married. Look at all of the white hair.

/

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:14pm

re: #89 stuiec

The Polynesians that colonized Hawaii developed legends of the little people who'd lived there before -- some legends said the little people were still living there when the Polynesians arrived. I wonder if it's possible that a pocket of similar hominids had made it to Hawaii and survived there until the Polynesians displaced them.

Of course, all kinds of people have stories about the small, magical folks who used to live around here, and now live underground, or somewhere else. From the Irish to the Cherokee. So are we all on something, or does everyone remember something?

260 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:17pm

re: #249 OldLineTexan

I wish to be Ghân-buri-Ghân.

Some of you are going to need to drive away this darkness for me with bright spears, please.

I liked him...burly little guy

261 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:20pm

re: #251 FurryOldGuyJeans

MOST Excellent Nova episode.

Looks like it. Most intriguing these "little people."

262 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:30pm

re: #218 Bloodnok

OR and FBV = Merry and Pippin

I'm thinking more:

MERRY: Carl in Jerusalem
PIPPIN: Israellycool

263 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:44:36pm

re: #246 Biocritic

I don't see how this is any different than Neanderthals or other pre modern humans. What's the fuss?

The fuss is about learning more about how we evolved and finding evidence that will put the Discovery Institute out of business.

264 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:45:14pm

re: #158 Gus 802

I see the article from AFP is up on Breitbart -- nice.

They also have a video up on the topic:

REMAINS OF THREE-FOOT-TALL HUMANS DISCOVERED ON REMOTE INDONESIAN ISLAND

Great video!

Having worked and played in this area and on Flores back in the 70s I can tell you that this can be extremely rough country. Some of it impenetrable if you are on foot.

265 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:45:15pm

re: #246 Biocritic

I don't see how this is any different than Neanderthals or other pre modern humans. What's the fuss?

it's another branch in the tree

266 Stonemason  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:45:48pm

re: #255 simonml

Okay, I get that, but the article makes a point to say that the feet did not start out one way and then go...back...for lack of a better term

I was just curious about that, I have heard it before and this 'no going back' flies in the face of proven fossils and living animals.

267 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:45:55pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

Not bad, but Obama seems closer to the Lord of the Nazgul to me. Soros intends to use Obama to accomplish his ends, but he doesn't want to throw him under the bus as Sauron planned to do to Ar Pharazon.

Our side needs an Elendil.

268 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:45:59pm

re: #246 Biocritic

I don't see how this is any different than Neanderthals or other pre modern humans. What's the fuss?

If you can't, no one can help you.

269 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:46:05pm

re: #165 freetoken

Didn't intend to imply they WERE our ancestors, that was simply a comment on the difficulty of finding fossils.

270 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:46:10pm

re: #254 OldLineTexan

Thank you.

271 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:46:18pm

re: #180 freetoken

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!

/oops....

This controversy is much more esoteric and subtle than the creationism/evolution controversy.

Some basic facts are acknowledged by all:

- Our original proto-human ancestors evolved in East Africa.
- There was an original emigration from Africa which populated the world many hundreds of thousands of years ago.
- There was then a second emigration from Africa more recently, on the tens-of-thousands-of-years scale.

Everyone agrees on those points.

The point of contention is:

Did the first wave of African emigrants, the proto-humans, all die out? Or, did they interbreed to any extent with the second wave?

The mainstream theory is that they all died out. Most scientists subscribe to that theory. However, it is not unanimous, nor anywhere close to unanimous. A significant segment of the scientific community continues to unearth evidence of the survival of the original African emigrants.

Most recent DNA studies support, but do not prove, the mainstream theory.

Both sides have strong political motivations and biases -- often contradictory. In the modern hyper-politicized world, one must now look at the politics of every scientist to see "where he's coming from." Unfortunate, but unavoidable.

I try to strip away the politics and weigh the evidence neutrally. I'm still undecided, but one fact keeps nagging at me: Men will screw anything given half a chance. We know that the two populations overlapped in many places around the world. What are the chances that these early men all took vows of abstinence and no sexual contact took place between the two groups?

Not bloody likely.

So, they had offspring, UNLESS they were not cross-fertile. Which also seems unlikely (see: mules, ligers, etc.).

The question, to my mind, remains unresolved.

272 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:46:22pm

re: #256 Jim in Virginia

I've seen speculation that some Celtic groups- or maybe even earlier inhabitants of Britain- were pushed back by the Romans and then the Danes/ Angles/ Normans. They were never conquered, just hiding.

Picts, maybe?

273 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:46:35pm

re: #246 Biocritic

1) They lived up till about 8000 years ago, which means not only were they living at the same time as modern humans (you and me), but also during the ascent of civilization (towns, agriculture, written forms).

2) They absolutely break the YEC paradigm (like pretty much the rest of science...)

274 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:46:44pm

re: #246 Biocritic

I don't see how this is any different than Neanderthals or other pre modern humans. What's the fuss?

Can you read?

275 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:46:45pm

Somehow I think the only part I'd be right for is that hobbit in the opening sequence that picks his ear and then stares at his finger for awhile.

276 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:47:00pm

re: #249 OldLineTexan

You guys will have to pick my role. And be nice. Or not, I would never know the difference.

In the alternative, Walter and I could just handle the music - Walter on the accordion, me on the tuba, it will be a beautiful thing.

277 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:47:01pm

re: #267 LGoPs

Our side needs an Elendil.

Agreed. Sad to say, I think we must suffer a while longer before one comes.

278 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:47:10pm

re: #267 LGoPs

Our side needs an Elendil.

he lost the Ring...bad fu

279 FrogMarch  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:47:30pm
280 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:47:41pm

re: #266 Stonemason

Okay, I get that, but the article makes a point to say that the feet did not start out one way and then go...back...for lack of a better term

I was just curious about that, I have heard it before and this 'no going back' flies in the face of proven fossils and living animals.

Guess you had to be there to know why. Maybe the females weren't into dudes with short feet

281 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:47:57pm

pointing out facts will not persuade creationists. Those who reject reason cannot be persuaded. I think creationists are almost necessarily dishonest nowadays due to the obvious facts of the age of the Earth and the fossil record. Creationists cling to their religious beliefs mainly because they see it as the only moral guide, which is the ONLY understandable (and horrible) reason for believing such nonsense. But luckily we have a non-religious non-altruistic morality that is growing in popularity in America.

282 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:47:59pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course, all kinds of people have stories about the small, magical folks who used to live around here, and now live underground, or somewhere else. From the Irish to the Cherokee. So are we all on something, or does everyone remember something?

Don't mention dragon legends ...

283 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:48:25pm

re: #272 OldLineTexan

Picts, maybe?

That's one group that I'd love to study. From what I've read, there is little information, though.

284 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:48:38pm

re: #249 OldLineTexan

I wish to be Ghân-buri-Ghân.

Some of you are going to need to drive away this darkness for me with bright spears, please.


Way too obscure for me. I need to reread it.

285 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:48:53pm

re: #278 albusteve

he lost the Ring...bad fu

Dude, he did not ... he died getting it.

Isildur lost the ring.

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:49:06pm

re: #199 Bloodnok

And a few cakes of lembas.

Dwarf bread. It's not really for eating, it's more for--keeping you going.

287 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:49:20pm

re: #275 Bloodnok

Somehow I think the only part I'd be right for is that hobbit in the opening sequence that picks his ear and then stares at his finger for awhile.

Oh, gross. Why not just go ahead and do some toe-jam digging?

288 FrogMarch  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:49:34pm

re: #271 zombie

but one fact keeps nagging at me: Men will screw anything given half a chance.

That's true.

289 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:49:48pm

re: #280 simonml

Guess you had to be there to know why. Maybe the females weren't into dudes with short feet

Well, you know what the girls say about guys with big feet ...

/sz. 13E here, ladies!

/

290 captain faris  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:50:01pm

Although I'm technically not qualified to count, I haven't noticed any adverse reactions to these anthropoligical reports on my beat. But, since I also oppose political meddling with any curricula, especially science ones, I'm probably not perceptive enough. I'm sure, though, that there will be a bit of sputtering in some camps, if no exploding heads per se.

For the record, I myself have two species as descendants: my son and his wife are Elves and my daughter and her husband are Hobbits. I'm thinking it was the retroviruses that did it.

291 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:50:20pm

re: #285 OldLineTexan

Dude, he did not ... he died getting it.

Isildur lost the ring.

right...I'm not myself...Isildur The Hacked

292 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:50:34pm

re: #289 OldLineTexan

Well, you know what the girls say about guys with big feet ...

/sz. 13E here, ladies!

/

Guys with big feet. They wear big shoes?

293 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:50:46pm

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

Dwarf bread. It's not really for eating, it's more for--keeping you going.

Points off. Lembas are delicious. Dwarven waybread and cram are presented as unappetizing survival fare.

294 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:50:52pm

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

Dwarf bread. It's not really for eating, it's more for--keeping you going.

Isn't lembas elven bread?

295 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:51:02pm

re: #292 simonml

Guys with big feet. They wear big shoes?

Big socks.

296 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:51:06pm

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Sad to say, I think we must suffer a while longer before one comes.

I think we're in exile. Like the Northern Line was.......

297 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:51:18pm

re: #294 MandyManners

Isn't lembas elven bread?

yes

298 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:51:35pm

re: #195 stuiec

Nice. Except here we have actual fossil evidence of little people, so the comparison to the dog-headed legends is inapt.

I was just making the point that cultures will generate tales of little people whether there are actual little people to go on or not.

There's no reason to assume that just because some legends reference little people, that they are referencing these little people - the people of the fossils. In fact, I'd say given the time scales involved here, that it's a tad unlikely.

299 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:51:40pm

re: #294 MandyManners

Isn't lembas elven bread?

Yes.

:sigh: now the cool kids won't hang out with me anymore.

300 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:11pm

re: #295 SasquatchOnSteroids

Big socks.

You know better, socks aren't allowed at LGF.

;-)

301 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:29pm

re: #278 albusteve

he lost the Ring...bad fu

Actually it was his son, name slips me at the moment, that lost the ring. Starts with a D........dang.

302 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:30pm

re: #285 OldLineTexan

Dude, he did not ... he died getting it.

Isildur lost the ring.

Elendil had nothing to do with the One Ring. In the Simirillion, he sailed across the Shadowy Seas to Aman and there begged the Valar to save the Elves and Men of Middle Earth from Morgoth. The Valar heeded his pleas and destroyed Morgoths force in the Great Battle that ended the First Age. Sauron, who was originally Morgoth's second-in-command, forged the One Ring later during the Second Age.

303 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:30pm

re: #281 hiddenlizard
One can still be religious and altruistic and not believe in the ID, DI, YEC literalism.

304 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:33pm

Paul Belien, Fjordman, Baron, and Dymphna can be other Wraiths.

305 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:43pm

re: #276 ArmyWife

You guys will have to pick my role. And be nice. Or not, I would never know the difference.

In the alternative, Walter and I could just handle the music - Walter on the accordion, me on the tuba, it will be a beautiful thing.

chicks with low brass are teh hawt!

/I dated several trombone players
/FEMALES, youse jerks!

306 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:50pm

re: #177 zombie

And here is a Chinese scientific paper with evidence to the contrary, from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science USA. The conclusion is, "This morphological pattern implies that a simple spread of modern humans from Africa is unlikely." I.e. in other words, folks from the second out-of-Africa migration must have interbred with folks from the first out-of-Africa migration.

So the Chinese EMH were 42,000 to 39,000 years ago. Our hobbit was only 18,000 and maybe only 8,000 (!) years ago. It is quite possible that other enclaves of early modern humans existed in remote locations.

Is it possible that homo sapien emerged from homo neanderthal and/or homo rhodesiensis much more rapidly and recently than is presently accepted about 250,000 years ago?

307 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:54pm

re: #299 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes.

:sigh: now the cool kids won't hang out with me anymore.

I hear there's room in auto shop.

308 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:52:58pm

re: #298 Jimmah

I was just making the point that cultures will generate tales of little people whether there are actual little people to go on or not.

There's no reason to assume that just because some legends reference little people, that they are referencing these little people - the people of the fossils. In fact, I'd say given the time scales involved here, that it's a tad unlikely.

All the elevator Buttons
Oh so Incredibly High
I stand today for the midget
At the size of a regular Guy

Let Me Hold You Little Man
As the parade passes by
Let Me Hold You Little man
We'll make believe you can fly

You shout for me to put you down
But I'm marching today for your cause
I'm bangin' the drum
Your big day will come
When they remake the wizard of Oz

Let Me Hold You Midget Man
We'll pretend that you're flyin in space
Let Me Hold You Little Man
So the dog will stop licking your face

Little Shoes, Little Pants
Little Song, Little Dance
Little Heart, Little Mind
But your rights are as big as mine

Na, Na-Na-Na, Na-Na-Na-Na
Na-Na Na Na-Na Na Na
Thank God I'm Tall
I won't let you fall
We're all midget, one and for all
Thank God I'm Tall
I won't let you fall
We're all midget, and some are just small

Stand Up For The Little People!

309 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:53:01pm

re: #294 MandyManners

Isn't lembas elven bread?

yes. Elven bread.

310 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:53:02pm

re: #295 SasquatchOnSteroids

Big socks.

HUGE socks ...

311 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:53:14pm

re: #78 zombie

Verrrrry interesting.

This also lends support to the controversial theory that Australian aborigines and Solomon Island natives are descended from the first out-of-Africa migration, not the second, as are most (all?) other people.

If Homo Florensis evolved on a different track than the other homo species, then it is possible that Aborigines did as well, since they are so close geographically.

If true, however, it would mean that Aborigines are not exactly the same species as homo sapiens sapiens, but rather a sub-species -- the step beyond being merely a different "ethnicity."

Needless to say, you can see how this theory is extremely controversial. There is much evidence supporting both sides of the debate.

The fact that Aborigines and non-Aborigines can combine to be make offspring prove that they are either the same species or very closely related, but it does not preculde the possibility that they are the last surviving "pure humans."

The Flores island species is drastically different from homo sapiens.

Australian aborigines are not. They're not all that different genetically from the rest of us humans. Less so than the differences between this and that African population, for example. Also, all the evidence says that there was just one out-of-Africa migration of Homo Sapiens. Once a breeding population is established on the far shore of the Red Sea, anybody else rafting across becomes, sorry to say, easy meat.

Australian aborigines, Solomon island natives, Andaman island natives, New Guinea natives...all these are surviving remnants of the line of that wave that migrated along the southern shore of Asia. The others have since been displaced or overwhelmed by invaders descended from another branch of that wave that went North. The Vietnamese, for instance, are not the native population of their land, not if you go back far enough in time. They are descendants of tribes from what is now China.

312 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:53:40pm

re: #295 SasquatchOnSteroids

Big socks.

With puppets?

313 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:53:59pm

re: #213 jaunte

He was telling people to check their kids books, because he was interested in "good science" and it was well known that inaccuracies like those drawings were prevalent in the teaching of evolution. No one on the morning show challenged his take on it.

The fact that those drawing have not been in text books for decades would seem a valid point.

314 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:54:19pm

re: #303 pingjockey

Sure, one can be non-religious and believe in altruism too. So what?

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:54:22pm

re: #283 MandyManners

That's one group that I'd love to study. From what I've read, there is little information, though.

They're the ones who have the mysterious thing that looks like a swimming elephant on a lot of their carvings.

(All I really know of them...)

316 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:54:47pm

re: #309 LGoPs

yes. Elven bread.

Not to be confused with elvish parsley, named for the noted singer and horticulturalist.

317 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:55:24pm

re: #279 FrogMarch

ot: Right Wing kook alert.


DC city council members and the bleeping Washington Post are in favor of a voucher program for DC students. And Obama the Lightbringer will not lift a finger to stop Congress from ending a program that gives poor kids from Anacostia the chance for the same education that he can buy for his daughters.
Schmuck.

318 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:55:33pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Elendil had nothing to do with the One Ring. In the Simirillion, he sailed across the Shadowy Seas to Aman and there begged the Valar to save the Elves and Men of Middle Earth from Morgoth. The Valar heeded his pleas and destroyed Morgoths force in the Great Battle that ended the First Age. Sauron, who was originally Morgoth's second-in-command, forged the One Ring later during the Second Age.

I am sorry, you are very wrong.

Elendil the Tall was the father of Isildur and led the faithful Numenoreans from the downfall of the island back to the shores of Middle-Earth.

Earendil the Mariner is who you are looking for.

319 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:55:38pm

re: #307 jcm

I hear there's room in auto shop.

Sweet! I hear the gearheads have the best weed in school.

320 jdog29  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:55:39pm

This particular hobbit-like creature had normal parents who were naturally disappointed their son turned out looking like this hobbit-like creature.

All the other children called him names and wouldn't let him play any evolution/creation games. //

321 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:55:42pm

re: #281 hiddenlizard

You can have reasonable, religious types too. Religion and evolution are not mutually exclusive.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:55:46pm

re: #285 OldLineTexan

Dude, he did not ... he died getting it.

Isildur lost the ring.

Am I the only person who, watching the films, watched Isildur go spacey over the ring, and kept glaring at Elrond and trying to mentally communicate that a good push right about now would save everyone a lot of grief?

323 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:56:14pm

re: #313 avanti

It's a good point, but one that he was not making. His implication was that they were still in use, and he was using it to illustrate his larger point that the teaching of evolution was a sloppy affair that parents should be questioning.

324 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:56:35pm

re: #314 hiddenlizard
Not a thing. It seemed you were zinging All religious folks in with the nutters,

325 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:56:45pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

They're the ones who have the mysterious thing that looks like a swimming elephant on a lot of their carvings.

(All I really know of them...)

I wonder if any of their DNA could be identified. Or, does it work that way?

326 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:56:53pm

re: #318 OldLineTexan

I am sorry, you are very wrong.

Elendil the Tall was the father of Isildur and led the faithful Numenoreans from the downfall of the island back to the shores of Middle-Earth.

Earendil the Mariner is who you are looking for.

You see, you see, it is confusing :)

I'm turning on the TV, for the only hour of TV that I watch every week, LOST. Try it, you'll like it.

BB in an hour.

327 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:57:20pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Elendil had nothing to do with the One Ring. In the Simirillion, he sailed across the Shadowy Seas to Aman and there begged the Valar to save the Elves and Men of Middle Earth from Morgoth. The Valar heeded his pleas and destroyed Morgoths force in the Great Battle that ended the First Age. Sauron, who was originally Morgoth's second-in-command, forged the One Ring later during the Second Age.

My bad. Earendil is the one who did the things listed above. Elendil was his decendant through Earendil's son Elros (Elrond's brother).

328 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:57:23pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Elendil had nothing to do with the One Ring. In the Simirillion, he sailed across the Shadowy Seas to Aman and there begged the Valar to save the Elves and Men of Middle Earth from Morgoth. The Valar heeded his pleas and destroyed Morgoths force in the Great Battle that ended the First Age. Sauron, who was originally Morgoth's second-in-command, forged the One Ring later during the Second Age.

Elendil was Elronds father yes?

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:57:32pm

re: #293 OldLineTexan

Points off. Lembas are delicious. Dwarven waybread and cram are presented as unappetizing survival fare.

Sorry, crossing systems with no warning there. Dwarf bread is a running gag in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books.

330 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:57:37pm

Maybe Daniel Pipes can be Elrond.

331 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:57:52pm

re: #323 jaunte

It's a good point, but one that he was not making. His implication was that they were still in use, and he was using it to illustrate his larger point that the teaching of evolution was a sloppy affair that parents should be questioning.

I find it hard to believe thay are still in use anywhere, it's been a century since they were questioned.

332 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:58:00pm

re: #306 experiencedtraveller

So the Chinese EMH were 42,000 to 39,000 years ago. Our hobbit was only 18,000 and maybe only 8,000 (!) years ago. It is quite possible that other enclaves of early modern humans existed in remote locations.

Is it possible that homo sapien emerged from homo neanderthal and/or homo rhodesiensis much more rapidly and recently than is presently accepted about 250,000 years ago?

Depends on who you ask.

The argument rages.

Nobody claims that modern man evolved exclusively from Neanderthal or Peking Man or Java Man etc., only that we possibly might have some DNA from them interspersed among our more recent homo sapiens sapiens DNA.

333 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:58:11pm

re: #294 MandyManners

Isn't lembas elven bread?


Yes, yes, yes. See above. Sorry. Was being goofy.

334 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:58:13pm

re: #305 OldLineTexan

I don't really play the tuba. It was going to be ACTING! Can I still be teh hawt?

335 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:58:19pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

My bad. Earendil is the one who did the things listed above. Elendil was his decendant through Earendil's son Elros (Elrond's brother).

time to break out the old books again

336 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:58:30pm

re: #319 Slumbering Behemoth

Sweet! I hear the gearheads have the best weed in school.

Couple of identical twins in HS had old cars. One had a Nova and the other one had a Monte Carlo. Tinkerers. We called them The Doobie Brothers.
Loved weed and cars, those boys.

337 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:58:58pm
338 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:59:11pm

re: #331 avanti

I don't think he was troubled by his own inaccuracy.

339 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:59:36pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Am I the only person who, watching the films, watched Isildur go spacey over the ring, and kept glaring at Elrond and trying to mentally communicate that a good push right about now would save everyone a lot of grief?

Or a slipped spear.

Good point.

340 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 6:59:44pm

re: #326 Walter L. Newton

You see, you see, it is confusing :)

I'm turning on the TV, for the only hour of TV that I watch every week, LOST. Try it, you'll like it.

BB in an hour.

I hear this arguing over minutiae and my eyes glaze over. Why can't some people just enjoy the damned story?

I soon may be a Lost aficionado, getting the series on DVD in order from the local library.

341 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:00:15pm

Has anyone linked to that terrible Billbo Baggins song from Nimoy yet?

342 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:00:25pm

re: #321 ArmyWife

You can have reasonable, religious types too. Religion and evolution are not mutually exclusive.

If by reasonable you mean decent human beings with basic common sense, that is certainly the case, because they don't take religion seriously. Thank God!

I disagree, I think reason/science and religion/faith are enemies. Sure, you can claim to accept both, but that is your personal contradiction. Blind faith can't lead to science, it only seeks to destroy it, e.g. Bruno. Reason can only lead to science and capitalism, if it is taken seriously and followed consistently.

343 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:00:29pm

Answers in Genesis decided back in 2007 that homo floresiensis was not a new species, but the same 'kind' as Adam.
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

344 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:00:45pm

re: #330 Sharmuta
Help! Every time I see the name Elrond, I flash to that dingbat L. Ron Hubbard! Damn!

345 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:00:57pm

re: #334 ArmyWife

I don't really play the tuba. It was going to be ACTING! Can I still be teh hawt?

sure u kan! taek a cheezburger 2! K?

346 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:02pm

re: #282 OldLineTexan

Don't mention dragon legends ...


A couple weeks ago there was news footage of an undersea volcanic eruption. Billowing smoke from out of the sea, boiling water, occasional fragments of rock and ash shooting inot the air.
That's a dragon, no question about it.

347 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:12pm

re: #332 zombie

Depends on who you ask.

The argument rages.

Nobody claims that modern man evolved exclusively from Neanderthal or Peking Man or Java Man etc., only that we possibly might have some DNA from them interspersed among our more recent homo sapiens sapiens DNA.

So our ancestors were as horny and willing to bed multiple partners as are some "modern" men.

348 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:18pm

re: #344 pingjockey

Me too, I hate to say.

349 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:23pm

re: #341 Sharmuta
DO NOT!

350 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:47pm

re: #337 Racer X

Short People

Speaking of short people, the school I've been working at this year may have a little person as a student this coming fall. We've been discussing modifications the kid might need.

351 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:48pm

re: #324 pingjockey

Not a thing. It seemed you were zinging All religious folks in with the nutters,

Religion by its essence is nutters, but not all followers of religion are. For instance, many religious Americans are just fine and honest.

352 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:53pm

re: #344 pingjockey

Help! Every time I see the name Elrond, I flash to that dingbat L. Ron Hubbard! Damn!

Really? I always think of the Matrix guy saying, "Mister Anderson".

353 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:01:56pm

God buried the hobbit-like remains to test your faith. What a kidder.

354 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:02:16pm

re: #336 SasquatchOnSteroids

Knew a few guys like that in HS as well. One would get us all to pile into his car before school, drive us somewhere way remote to get stoned. Then he'd tell us to either cough up some gas money or some cigarettes, otherwise we weren't getting back in the car for the return trip. At least he didn't ask for sex.

355 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:02:32pm

re: #336 SasquatchOnSteroids

Couple of identical twins in HS had old cars. One had a Nova and the other one had a Monte Carlo. Tinkerers. We called them The Doobie Brothers.
Loved weed and cars, those boys.

I was in the Fire Dept. in HS there where a small group of us, we had to be straight arrows.... (yeah right) we pulled some of the biggest practical jokes. My favorite was when we changed all the locker combinations in the freshman hall.

Every time the school officials hustled down to the auto shop to grill the motor heads, and never gave us a second look.

356 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:02:37pm

re: #341 Sharmuta

Oh, please! NOOOOOOOO!

Actually have paid attention to American Idol this year. My favorite just got kicked off.

357 zombie  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:02:45pm

re: #311 lostlakehiker

Also, all the evidence says that there was just one out-of-Africa migration of Homo Sapiens. Once a breeding population is established on the far shore of the Red Sea, anybody else rafting across becomes, sorry to say, easy meat.

But that is the exact opposite of the mainstream theory, which says that the new arrivals succeeded in massacring/starving/out-competing the original emigrants who preceded them. What you seem to be saying is that the first wave killed off the entire second wave. For which is there very little or no evidence.

358 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:02:56pm

re: #351 hiddenlizard

Religion by its essence is nutters, but not all followers of religion are. For instance, many religious Americans are just fine and honest.

Religion is nutters? Painting with a broad brush there

359 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:05pm

re: #342 hiddenlizard

Really piss-poor arguments there, chief. "Blind faith" is a loaded term. People making reasoned arguments don't use loaded terms.

But since I'm an indecent non-human with no common sense ... take it for what it's worth.

360 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:06pm

re: #334 ArmyWife

I don't really play the tuba. It was going to be ACTING! Can I still be teh hawt?


Army wife, you are definitely the hawt.

361 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:12pm

re: #342 hiddenlizard

If by reasonable you mean decent human beings with basic common sense, that is certainly the case, because they don't take religion seriously. Thank God!

I disagree, I think reason/science and religion/faith are enemies. Sure, you can claim to accept both, but that is your personal contradiction. Blind faith can't lead to science, it only seeks to destroy it, e.g. Bruno. Reason can only lead to science and capitalism, if it is taken seriously and followed consistently.

Why must faith be blind? And how do science and faith contradict one another?

362 Stonemason  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:15pm

re: #342 hiddenlizard

Sorry, sir, you are wrong.

363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:22pm

re: #346 Jim in Virginia

There, there be monsters.

364 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:23pm

re: #206 albusteve

albusteve...insignificant orc

re: #206 albusteve

albusteve...insignificant orc

Keith Olbermann = Smaug

Not that I think he's powerful. Rather his vitriolic spewing (fire breathing) and fat ass (Smaug was known to have a powerfully destructive tail) is where I'm going with this.

365 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:40pm

re: #342 hiddenlizard

Science is how; Religion seeks to understand why.

They can coexist.

366 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:42pm

re: #343 jaunte

Answers in Genesis decided back in 2007 that homo floresiensis was not a new species, but the same 'kind' as Adam.
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

I guess that settles that.

////

367 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:48pm

re: #337 Racer X

I was wondering when this was going to make an appearance...

368 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #351 hiddenlizard
You forgot one little thing on your statement about religion...IMO.

369 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:04:05pm

re: #343 jaunte

Answers in Genesis decided back in 2007 that homo floresiensis was not a new species, but the same 'kind' as Adam.
[Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

So---uh--we've evolved since then?

370 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:04:09pm

re: #353 HelloDare

God buried the hobbit-like remains to test your faith. What a kidder.

The real question is, why does Iluvatar hate hobbits?

371 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:04:16pm

re: #341 Sharmuta

Has anyone linked to that terrible Billbo Baggins song from Nimoy yet?


No but I'm sure I can find Shatner doing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

372 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:04:52pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

Knew a few guys like that in HS as well. One would get us all to pile into his car before school, drive us somewhere way remote to get stoned. Then he'd tell us to either cough up some gas money or some cigarettes, otherwise we weren't getting back in the car for the return trip. At least he didn't ask for sex.

LMAO. Well, not from YOU, anyway.

373 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:05:05pm

Later lizards. Have to fight my way through armies of orcs to get home. Did you know they all drive cars here in California........

374 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:05:10pm

re: #371 Jim in Virginia

No but I'm sure I can find Shatner doing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

Ugh, don't! ;)

375 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:05:21pm

re: #353 HelloDare

God buried the hobbit-like remains to test your faith. What a kidder.

From "Life"--'Why would the universe be teasing us?' 'Maybe it's insecure.'

376 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:05:40pm

re: #371 Jim in Virginia

No but I'm sure I can find Shatner doing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

The always popular Rocket Man!

377 NY Nana  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:06:15pm

re: #304 Sharmuta

Paul Belien, Fjordman, Baron, and Dymphna can be other Wraiths.

They already are.

378 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:06:26pm

re: #347 FurryOldGuyJeans

Some things just don't evolve, ya know?

379 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:06:27pm

I bet Sasquatch really exists.

380 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:06:38pm

re: #241 Walter L. Newton

No Walter, do they have a female God figure ? I was think of the pre Old Testament texts. I read a book about God's wife, but here's some info:
wife.

381 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:06:43pm

re: #373 LGoPs

Later lizards. Have to fight my way through armies of orcs to get home. Did you know they all drive cars here in California........

There's never Wraiths in California
But girl, don't they warn ya
There's Orcs
Man, there's Orcs

382 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:07:04pm

re: #379 Ojoe

I bet Sasquatch really exists.

Yeah. He's on Steroids.

383 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:07:21pm
384 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:07:43pm

re: #364 dwells38

Keith Olbermann = Smaug

Not that I think he's powerful. Rather his vitriolic spewing (fire breathing) and fat ass (Smaug was known to have a powerfully destructive tail) is where I'm going with this.

The problem with that is the nature of Dragons in LotR: One of their key traits is their ability to bewitch and hypnotize people. Olbermann cann't influence anyone who is not already a Kool-Aid Drinker. I'd say Smaug = Glen Beck.

385 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:08:05pm

re: #382 LGoPs

Yeah. He's on Steroids.

Just my inner me. I'm actually from a small island called Flores.

386 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:08:12pm

re: #380 avanti

No Walter, do they have a female God figure ? I was think of the pre Old Testament texts. I read a book about God's wife, but here's some info:
wife.

Link to a Mormon website?

387 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:08:21pm

re: #379 Ojoe

I bet Sasquatch really exists.

Definitely extinct.

The NBA killed the last one.

388 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:08:29pm
389 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:08:33pm

re: #385 SasquatchOnSteroids

Just my inner me. I'm actually from a small island called Flores.

LOL.....
:)

390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:08:46pm

So, did y'all see the news of the royal fuckin' that Harry Reid is putting on Arlen Specter?

I'm lovin' life today.

391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:09:18pm

re: #387 jcm

Celtics are putting it to the Magic tonight, BTW.

392 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:09:28pm

re: #390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, did y'all see the news of the royal fuckin' that Harry Reid is putting on Arlen Specter?

I'm lovin' life today.

Linky?

393 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:09:31pm

re: #388 buzzsawmonkey

He's producing designer timepieces now. Haven't you got your Sask Watch™ yet? It's hefty; it has a big footprint.

Yet i question whether he's real

394 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:09:57pm

The LOTR verbiage is bursting out all over.

/Did you know that Tolkien served in some of the worst sectors of the Somme and this served as a crucial catalyst in his development of Mordor?

395 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:10:04pm

re: #390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, did y'all see the news of the royal fuckin' that Harry Reid is putting on Arlen Specter?

I'm lovin' life today.

BRAIN BLEACH, STAT!

396 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:10:09pm

Well all the Boston fans heads are in the clouds tonight..The Celtics are just destroying the Magic..A blow out..
Lakers are on next.. We get see see all the Stars come out in LA.. Ole Jack sitting by the bench..

397 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:10:30pm

re: #351 hiddenlizard

Religion by its essence is nutters, but not all followers of religion are. For instance, many religious Americans are just fine and honest.


Not at all.

You might review the life of John the XXIII;
or Don Bosco of Turin,
or Saint Patrick of Ireland for starters.

398 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:10:49pm
399 NY Nana  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:10:51pm

re: #390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Specter deserves every single kick in the ass he is getting.....and worse.

BTW, your avatar is ROTFL hilarious!

400 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:11:02pm

re: #385 SasquatchOnSteroids

In the Azores.

401 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:11:05pm

re: #396 HoosierHoops

Well all the Boston fans heads are in the clouds tonight..The Celtics are just destroying the Magic..A blow out..
Lakers are on next.. We get see see all the Stars come out in LA.. Ole Jack sitting by the bench..

Ugh, and I can't watch. I couldn't find a streaming link that wasn't in Chinese.

402 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:11:06pm

re: #390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, did y'all see the news of the royal fuckin' that Harry Reid is putting on Arlen Specter?

I'm lovin' life today.

Just goes to show you that even old timers still have sex.......
:)

403 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:12:27pm

I had $100 at 2 to 1 on insular dwarfism. Glad to know to it hasn't been entirely ruled out. /

404 LGoPs  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:12:28pm

Gone for real this time.

405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:12:28pm
406 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:12:49pm

re: #388 buzzsawmonkey

The
Sask Watch™

407 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:12:54pm

re: #386 simonml

Link to a Mormon website?

Didn't pay any attention, here's another on Asherah

link.

and

link...

408 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:13:18pm

re: #401 Bloodnok

Ugh, and I can't watch. I couldn't find a streaming link that wasn't in Chinese.

TNT owns the rights to this series..Have you checked their website?

409 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:13:25pm
410 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:13:34pm

re: #371 Jim in Virginia

No but I'm sure I can find Shatner doing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

One of the funniest bits of Shatner singing I ever heard was him doing Eminem's The Real Slim Shady.

411 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:13:57pm

re: #399 NY Nana

Curtsies. *index finger under chins*

412 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:14:23pm

re: #371 Jim in Virginia

No but I'm sure I can find Shatner doing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.


Here it is

413 NY Nana  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:14:40pm

re: #388 buzzsawmonkey

Haven't you got your Sask Watch™ yet? It's hefty; it has a big footprint.

You mean this one?

414 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:14:45pm

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Arlen's gettin' it long and hard!

An interesting one is the Judiciary committee. To move a nominee to the floor they need one vote from the minority. Specter was that one vote. If the remaining (R)s on the Judiciary committee stand fast they can block nominees in committee.

415 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:14:49pm

re: #358 simonml

I sure am, and I am proud of it. It doesn't take much effort to see that. If Jewish zombies who walk on water, reincarnations, telling people Allah talks to you your whole life, and magic aren't crazy, then I don't know what is. Religious people know its nonsense, but have faith in it anyway. That is why they need faith. If it actually made sense, they'd use reason and logic!

416 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:15:04pm

re: #410 Sharmuta

One of the funniest bits of Shatner singing I ever heard was him doing Eminem's The Real Slim Shady.

417 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:15:06pm

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Arlen's gettin' it long and hard!

Senate Republicans are already seeking to put that strategy in motion against Specter -- running automated phone calls to Democrats featuring President George W. Bush praising the former Republican. There's almost certainly more where that came from.

/Hillary cackle.

418 SteveC  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:15:16pm

re: #410 Sharmuta

One of the funniest bits of Shatner singing I ever heard was him doing Eminem's The Real Slim Shady.

Why you want to make the Baby Jeebus cry?!?!

419 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:15:21pm

re: #408 HoosierHoops

TNT owns the rights to this series..Have you checked their website?

Just found a TNT feed!

420 Stonemason  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:15:51pm

I don't get to type this often....

//GAZE

421 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:15:52pm

re: #413 NY Nana

You mean this one?

No wonder they're so scarce, no time for whoopee.

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:15:57pm

re: #409 buzzsawmonkey

Carry me back to the Olduvai gorges
That's where the ripe fruit and the tasty tubers grow
Carry me back to the Olduvai gorges
That's where this transitional hominid longs to go
That's where I ran from the saber-toothed tigers
Day after day in the grass upon the veldt
Carry me back to the Olduvai gorges
I've been gone so long I've forgotten just how bad that cave smelt.

Only semi-on-topic, but if anyone likes children's novels and gets a chance, there's a hilarious book about the development of human language (and hard currency, and a few other things), called "A is for Aaaaargh!"

423 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:16:17pm

re: #418 SteveC

Why you want to make the Baby Jeebus cry?!?!

is teh jeebus on now? i didn't smell anything.

424 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:16:40pm
425 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:16:46pm

re: #397 Ojoe

This reallllly isn't debatable. You are telling me that creation out of nothing is not nutters? Zombies aren't nutters? Burning bushes that talk aren't nutters? Don't make me say the obvious!

426 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:16:53pm

re: #413 NY Nana

You mean this one?

They forgot to put "shit in woods" at 19:50.

427 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:17:03pm

re: #422 SanFranciscoZionist

Only semi-on-topic, but if anyone likes children's novels and gets a chance, there's a hilarious book about the development of human language (and hard currency, and a few other things), called "A is for Aaaaargh!"

Perhaps he was dictating?

/python

428 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:17:13pm

re: #342 hiddenlizard

I notice you are new. Just some friendly advice - read here, and as you fancy yourself a thinker, take time to absorb some of the most insightful posts available on the intertubes (learn to weed out the kooky ones - or rely on the regulars to point them out, it happens at an astounding speed). If you are honest and truthful to yourself, you will realize just how off base you currently stand. We enjoy debate, we welcome differing views. Remaining cocky, you will only find that you'll be taken on, and taken down, by the best and the brightest.

Best of luck to you, and I'm rooting for you to earn your stripes here.

429 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:17:58pm

re: #246 Biocritic

I don't see how this is any different than Neanderthals or other pre modern humans. What's the fuss?

It's a big deal. Until the mid-19th century no ancestors or parallel relatives of modern humans had been found in the fossil record (or at least recognized as such). The primate tree is now getting pretty bushy. And like Neanderthals this one survived to co-exist on the planet with we moderns.

430 SteveC  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:18:30pm

re: #414 jcm

An interesting one is the Judiciary committee. To move a nominee to the floor they need one vote from the minority. Specter was that one vote. If the remaining (R)s on the Judiciary committee stand fast they can block nominees in committee.

Why they want to make the Baby Obama cry?!?!?! :)

431 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:18:36pm

re: #415 hiddenlizard

I sure am, and I am proud of it. It doesn't take much effort to see that. If Jewish zombies who walk on water, reincarnations, telling people Allah talks to you your whole life, and magic aren't crazy, then I don't know what is. Religious people know its nonsense, but have faith in it anyway. That is why they need faith. If it actually made sense, they'd use reason and logic!

You may not agree with certain religious beliefs, but to call all religious beliefs "nonsense"? Also to equate magic with religion. You have certain personal problems that you are projecting onto the rest of us. Please stop. Take the emotion out of it and talk reasonably.

432 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:19:05pm
433 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:19:19pm

re: #425 hiddenlizard

You may want to stay hidden.

434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:19:19pm

re: #428 ArmyWife

You are so sweet (and hawt).

435 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:19:34pm

re: #415 hiddenlizard
Isn't that special!

436 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:20:15pm

re: #410 Sharmuta

Really? REALLY? Please let there be a record of this somewhere!

437 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:20:24pm

re: #425 hiddenlizard

This reallllly isn't debatable. You are telling me that creation out of nothing is not nutters? Zombies aren't nutters? Burning bushes that talk aren't nutters? Don't make me say the obvious!

oh please say it every syllable that falls out of your mouth is like a pearl glistening in the warm salty water of the flores perhaps laying in the hand of a small hominid with a fire-sharpened stick saddened by the small fact that it was inedible before he tossed it over his shoulder in front of a wild boar pearls before swine as they say i am sure that is how you feel how difficult it must be for you to condescend to live with mere mortals ironically like jesus did except you claim to be real and i must have faith in you but not jesus more irony it would seem

438 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:20:42pm

Texas is only 6000 years old!

During the Texas State Board of Education hearings on science standards for Texas schoolchildren, BoE member and staunch creationist Barbara Cargill decided that the age of the Universe was up for vote. Oddly enough, I had some issue with that. You may vote on issues all you want, and you can even vote on morality if you’d like, but scientific reality is not a matter of opinion and cares not for the majority vote.

The National Center for Science Education has video of the moment where it becomes clear that Ms. Cargill, not happy enough to destroy biology for students, proposes an amendment to creationize astronomy as well:

With video goodness!

439 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:20:43pm

re: #415 hiddenlizard

Religious people know its nonsense, but have faith in it anyway.

Not true at all. It is not nonsense to me at all. Quite the contrary. Faith is the ground of everything for me. It is without faith, that it becomes nonsense, and that paradise is lost.

Shakespeare put it poetically, where you end up without faith; then life becomes

A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Who wants to live there? Many today try; you see the results even now in our country.

440 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:21:09pm

re: #425 hiddenlizard
Umm...The Big Bang came out of nothing.

441 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:21:15pm

re: #428 ArmyWife

I fully aware of how "off-base" I am. I am not sorry and I am doing nothing wrong for confidently expressing my views, or being "cocky".

442 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:21:23pm

re: #415 hiddenlizard

I sure am, and I am proud of it. It doesn't take much effort to see that. If Jewish zombies who walk on water, reincarnations, telling people Allah talks to you your whole life, and magic aren't crazy, then I don't know what is. Religious people know its nonsense, but have faith in it anyway. That is why they need faith. If it actually made sense, they'd use reason and logic!

I don't like you already....no need to insult people like that

443 Boy Hits Car  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:21:23pm

Speaking of creationists. My wife is a kindergarten teacher at a public school and she was screening kids for next year and one of the parents asked her if they teach creationism. Wife said no. Parent asked, "what do you teach in science class? Wife said, "science."

By the way, the parent was right off the boat from Jordan.

444 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:21:28pm

"I'm not dead yet!

I'm feelin' better."

-Boston Celtics.

445 NY Nana  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:21:46pm

re: #411 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Curtsies. *index finger under chins*

Please stop! ;) My sides hurt from laughing so hard!

446 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:21:59pm

re: #425 hiddenlizard

This reallllly isn't debatable. You are telling me that creation out of nothing is not nutters? Zombies aren't nutters? Burning bushes that talk aren't nutters? Don't make me say the obvious!

Here's a rope. Mandy will tell you what you can do with it.

447 SteveC  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:22:00pm

re: #437 OldLineTexan

oh please say it every syllable that falls out of your mouth is like a pearl glistening in the warm salty water of the flores perhaps laying in the hand of a small hominid with a fire-sharpened stick saddened by the small fact that it was inedible before he tossed it over his shoulder in front of a wild boar pearls before swine as they say i am sure that is how you feel how difficult it must be for you to condescend to live with mere mortals ironically like jesus did except you claim to be real and i must have faith in you but not jesus more irony it would seem

All that in one sentence? A sentence that actually makes sense? UPDING!

448 FrogMarch  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:22:15pm

re: #317 Jim in Virginia

DC city council members and the bleeping Washington Post are in favor of a voucher program for DC students. And Obama the Lightbringer will not lift a finger to stop Congress from ending a program that gives poor kids from Anacostia the chance for the same education that he can buy for his daughters.
Schmuck.

Leftists hate vouchers.

449 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:22:31pm

re: #437 OldLineTexan

Ouch.

450 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:22:34pm

re: #425 hiddenlizard

I'll say the obvious then:

GAZE

451 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:22:41pm

re: #441 hiddenlizard

I fully aware of how "off-base" I am. I am not sorry and I am doing nothing wrong for confidently expressing my views, or being "cocky".

you're an asshole...you have no confidence, only hubris

452 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:23:13pm
453 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:23:20pm

re: #441 hiddenlizard

You certainly are giving Stinky some good triangulation data for the ban stick.

454 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:23:22pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

Texas is only 6000 years old!


With video goodness!

You're all idjits. Texas is 173 years old.

/wtf do they teach in history and math class these days?

455 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:23:38pm
456 pingjockey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:23:43pm

Later folks, better half is home!

457 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:24:06pm

re: #428 ArmyWife

You are too kind.

458 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:24:13pm

re: #454 OldLineTexan

Lol @ Texas.

459 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:24:16pm

re: #351 hiddenlizard

Religion by its essence is nutters, but not all followers of religion are. For instance, many religious Americans are just fine and honest.

You know what's really nutters? Somebody who would wear this t-shirt.

460 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:24:17pm

re: #454 OldLineTexan

You're all idjits. Texas is 173 years old.

/wtf do they teach in history and math class these days?

461 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:24:39pm

re: #460 albusteve

bad fu...I'm getting pissy

462 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:25:42pm

re: #454 OldLineTexan

wtf do they teach in history and math class these days?

We haven't taught 'history' in a long time....

463 songbird  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:25:57pm

re: #461 albusteve

bad fu...I'm getting pissy

"Swine Oh Nine"?

464 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:26:09pm

Who knew we'd have a blow up from someone "anti-religion" as opposed to the opposite?

465 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:26:28pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

ROFLMAO!

Can I vote on gravity?

(btw - check out the chairs the school board members are perched in. Cushy)

466 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:26:33pm

So what, I wonder, will we eventually evolve into?

467 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:26:44pm

re: #464 simonml

Who knew we'd have a blow up from someone "anti-religion" as opposed to the opposite?

As a friend of mine is fond of saying, "It doesn't take all kinds, we just have all kinds."

468 Red Pencil  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:26:44pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

No, I am, in regards to that movie, I was not being smart-assed toward you. I watch all three movies last month, with two BIG fans, so I had added commentary and info when I needed it, and I still did not quite get what was going on.

And I watch them sober.

I am just wondering, did you possibly chatter about how confused you were (or about film techniques or actors you recognized) over important bits of exposition in the dialog? Because there are some there that might be missed...

469 SteveC  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:26:45pm

re: #453 FurryOldGuyJeans

You certainly are giving Stinky some good triangulation data for the ban stick.

See the ball, hit the ball....
See the ball, hit the ball....
See the ball, hit the ball....SWING!

"And there's a drive to deeeeep right field, I think it's gonna be........YES! Three run homer by Beaumont! Call 911, he's on fire tonight!"

470 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:26:52pm

re: #431 simonml

You may not agree with certain religious beliefs, but to call all religious beliefs "nonsense"? Also to equate magic with religion. You have certain personal problems that you are projecting onto the rest of us. Please stop. Take the emotion out of it and talk reasonably.

I disagree. I am talking reasonably, and I am clearly not being an emotionalist. I have no personal problems in this regard. If you disagree with what I say, ignore it or reply without accusing me of "personal problems" or asking me to quit expressing my viewpoint. This is a comment section for crying out loud.

Anyways, I am not willing to debate this issue. If you don't see that blind faith (of any sort, in any realm, which is more than religion, but includes things like claiming that vaccinations will result in autism) is literal nonsense (literally not using your senses), then I can't convince you of anything on this matter. We gain nothing from arguing about this.

471 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:27:06pm

re: #415 hiddenlizard

We have a wide spectrum that hang out here. From very Fundamentalist evangelical Christian (me), to atheists, and every thing in between from Mormons to Pagans. Occasionally the odd luthier or thespian pops in.

One thing we have in common.

Respect for each others beliefs, opinions and life experiences.

The one thing not tolerated is idiotarianism.

Try a little respect, and your time here will be much more enjoyable.

472 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:27:29pm

re: #466 irongrampa

So what, I wonder, will we eventually evolve into?

I'm thinking Tony Romo myself...it may take awhile

473 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:27:36pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

Texas is only 6000 years old!

With video goodness!

Might have to bus your kids from Texas to Mexico for science class.

Motion passed 11-3. These people must go.

474 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:27:47pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

Texas is only 6000 years old!

I find that hard to believe. I've got towels half that old. Wait a minute...hold on...they are dinosaur print, but I'm sure that's only a coincidence.

475 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:27:52pm

re: #465 Racer X

ROFLMAO!

Can I vote on gravity?

(btw - check out the chairs the school board members are perched in. Cushy)

I vote no on gravity but I abstain on round earth. Don't make me filibuster the turtle stack.

476 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:01pm

re: #463 songbird

"Swine Oh Nine"?

maybe

477 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:03pm
478 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:12pm

re: #442 albusteve

I have not insulted any individuals, nor have I intended to. I stated clear, objective, obvious facts. I discuss ideas.

479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:18pm

re: #471 jcm

What he said.

480 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:29pm
481 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:36pm

re: #437 OldLineTexan
Dennis Huston is soooo proud.

482 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:39pm

re: #237 Stonemason

And why is that? Serious question here, why is reverse evolution not a possibilty? Creatures with eyes revert back when stuck in complete dark, and there are other aspects, I am just not knowlegeable in them. Why would it not be possible that this form of human reverted being stuck on that island?

In the case of creatures losing sight one would hypothsize that nature selected for more likely survival those that were not diverting growth energies toward needless organs. Losing a trait isn't reverse evolution. It's just more evolution of the animal to be better suited.

But our hobbit would have had to have a wholesale reversion to a more primitive form. They're saying not just their feet, but their size, brain case, their capitate and trapezoid bones track more closely with Austrilopithecines than modern humans.

Weird observation: capitate bone is in the hand. But to decapitate is to cut off the head!

483 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:42pm

re: #478 hiddenlizard

I am sure you think so.

484 VioletTiger  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:28:58pm

re: #466 irongrampa

So what, I wonder, will we eventually evolve into?

Cats

485 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:29:10pm

re: #441 hiddenlizard

You're not even interesting enough to bat around for awhile. Your whole "arrogant and unapologetic" act is tiresome and unoriginal. If you paid attention you would realize that you are acting exactly like 100s of trolls that came before you (though I wouldn't be surprised if you were actually 5 or 6 of them). You're not even making new anti-religion points -it's all been done by better trolls than you.

Just stop now before you embarrass yourself further.

486 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:29:11pm

re: #347 FurryOldGuyJeans

So our ancestors were as horny and willing to bed multiple partners as are some "modern" men.

You mean "Homo clintonensis"?

487 hiddenlizard  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:29:16pm

re: #471 jcm

We have a wide spectrum that hang out here. From very Fundamentalist evangelical Christian (me), to atheists, and every thing in between from Mormons to Pagans. Occasionally the odd luthier or thespian pops in.

One thing we have in common.

Respect for each others beliefs, opinions and life experiences.

The one thing not tolerated is idiotarianism.

Try a little respect, and your time here will be much more enjoyable.

I am entirely respectful. What about respect for MY views?

488 songbird  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:29:24pm

re: #476 albusteve

maybe

Take care of yourself!
Are you in an area with a lot of h1n1?

We have two, count 'em, two confirmed cases of H1N1 in my town...that's it!

489 SteveC  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:29:31pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

Texas is only 6000 years old!

Big deal. Long before that the first mamalls able to stand on two feet in South Carolina looked at each other and said "You wanna go see the big race at Darlington?

490 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:29:32pm
491 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:29:49pm
492 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:23pm

re: #470 hiddenlizard

Bu-bye, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Don't leave mad, just leave.

493 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:23pm

re: #237 Stonemason

And why is that? Serious question here, why is reverse evolution not a possibilty? Creatures with eyes revert back when stuck in complete dark, and there are other aspects, I am just not knowlegeable in them. Why would it not be possible that this form of human reverted being stuck on that island?

That would not account for the primitive toe shape. Dwarfing is a common feature of continent-dwelling large mammals when a population gets stuck on an island. But there would be no evolutionary pressures against efficient walking.

494 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:32pm

re: #478 hiddenlizard

I have not insulted any individuals, nor have I intended to. I stated clear, objective, obvious facts. I discuss ideas.

and further you have no style whatsoever

495 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:34pm

re: #478 hiddenlizard

I have not insulted any individuals, nor have I intended to. I stated clear, objective, obvious facts. I discuss ideas.

No, you insult people.

496 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:35pm

re: #458 Killgore Trout

Lol @ Texas.

Now you think this Barbara nutburger is a STATE. Who are you, Barack Obama?

497 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:38pm
498 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:39pm

re: #472 albusteve

I'll settle for simply growing up.

499 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:41pm

re: #471 jcm

Try a little respect, and your time here will be much more enjoyable.

True, if you mean enjoyable for the rest of us.

I'm not so sure that hiddenlizard's reason for being here has much to do with respecting anyone.

500 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:48pm

re: #491 Gus 802

OK, but what did get the second one there?

501 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:50pm

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Arlen's gettin' it long and hard!

I'd like an order of Schadenfreude with an extra helping of Mwahahahaha!

502 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:30:53pm

re: #434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks! I think I'm blushing!

503 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:31:03pm

re: #470 hiddenlizard

I disagree. I am talking reasonably, and I am clearly not being an emotionalist. I have no personal problems in this regard. If you disagree with what I say, ignore it or reply without accusing me of "personal problems" or asking me to quit expressing my viewpoint. This is a comment section for crying out loud.

Anyways, I am not willing to debate this issue. If you don't see that blind faith (of any sort, in any realm, which is more than religion, but includes things like claiming that vaccinations will result in autism) is literal nonsense (literally not using your senses), then I can't convince you of anything on this matter. We gain nothing from arguing about this.

Yes you're being emotionalist. You do have personal problems. To paint ALL religions as being "nutters" you are obviously confusing your personal beliefs with my personal beliefs. You did not state that you disagree, you qualified my beliefs are "insane" based on your personal opinions. That is at once both emotional and personal.

Also, don't try to relate my religion with anti-vaxers either. The two are in no way related. You are more closely related to Jenny McCarthy in your beliefs than I am.

504 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:31:47pm

re: #500 Ojoe

OK, but what did get the second one there?

A twisted man and a twisted culture.

I understand that this is all because Hiddenlizard decided to start trouble.

505 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:31:57pm
506 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:32:06pm

re: #481 Jim in Virginia

Dennis Huston is soooo proud.

as a freshman dennis made me take english even though i tested out he would not sign the damned paper

507 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:32:12pm

re: #478 hiddenlizard

I have not insulted any individuals, nor have I intended to. I stated clear, objective, obvious facts. I discuss ideas.

You, sir, are a DAMNED LIAR. You have done nothing but insult and demean.

GET THE FUCK OUTA HERE.

508 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:32:25pm

re: #478 hiddenlizard

I have not insulted any individuals, nor have I intended to. I stated clear, objective, obvious facts. I discuss ideas.

You referred to all religion as "nutters." Therefore you insulted all religions peoples as well as all those who respect religious people

509 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:32:32pm

re: #480 Ojoe

Faith gets you this

No faith gets you this

Are you heading down the Ben Stein road of "science leads to killiing people"?

510 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:33:01pm

re: #498 irongrampa

I'll settle for simply growing up.

yeah...sooner or later I gotta deal with that too....I'm working on it

511 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:33:07pm

re: #470 hiddenlizard

re: #470 hiddenlizard

I
Anyways, I am not willing to debate this issue.... We gain nothing from arguing about this.


So you don't want to debate, you just want to spout off your opinions without listening to anyone who might disagree?
How are things down there in Mom's basement?

512 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:33:10pm

re: #491 Gus 802

I disagree.

I as well. I had a chance to tour York, in the North of England, a few years ago.

It is a town with a beautiful cathedral. It is also the scene of one of the ugliest attacks on Jews in English history.

It's more complicated than faith/no faith. A lot more complicated.

513 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:33:20pm

re: #484 VioletTiger

Love that site. That's from a dog lover, too.

514 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:33:38pm

re: #488 songbird

Take care of yourself!
Are you in an area with a lot of h1n1?

We have two, count 'em, two confirmed cases of H1N1 in my town...that's it!

{Songbird} Hope today finds you well!

515 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:33:49pm

re: #490 Iron Fist

LSD is some amazing shit, ain't it?

Just stay away from the brown stuff.

516 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:34:08pm

re: #487 hiddenlizard

I am entirely respectful. What about respect for MY views?

Really?

re: #415 hiddenlizard

I sure am, and I am proud of it. It doesn't take much effort to see that. If Jewish zombies who walk on water, reincarnations, telling people Allah talks to you your whole life, and magic aren't crazy, then I don't know what is. Religious people know its nonsense, but have faith in it anyway. That is why they need faith. If it actually made sense, they'd use reason and logic!

My faith has a "logic and reason" to it. But it's not logic and reason of the physical world, but of the spiritual. Dismissing it out of hand is not respectful.

517 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:34:23pm

re: #509 HelloDare

No, that faithlesness leads to disconnection from God, and with that gone, so is respect for one's fellow human beings; then the worst horrors are possible.

518 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:34:44pm

re: #488 songbird

Take care of yourself!
Are you in an area with a lot of h1n1?

We have two, count 'em, two confirmed cases of H1N1 in my town...that's it!

no floo can do me in

519 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:34:58pm

Well I would love to stay and bat around the maroon but I get the feeling it won't be here long.

Go Lakers!

520 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:35:05pm

re: #512 SanFranciscoZionist

I as well. I had a chance to tour York, in the North of England, a few years ago.

It is a town with a beautiful cathedral. It is also the scene of one of the ugliest attacks on Jews in English history.

It's more complicated than faith/no faith. A lot more complicated.

Religion would be so much better without flawed believers and followers.

/ is it sarcasm, or is it memorex?

521 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:35:28pm
— dubbed “the hobbit” due to its size —

Sam! ... Mr. Frodo! ... Sam! ... Mr. Frodo!

522 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:35:59pm

re: #480 Ojoe

Faith gets you this

No faith gets you this


Godwin's law!
But you are correct.

523 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:05pm

re: #487 hiddenlizard

Sometimes it's not about you. MOST times, it's not about you.

524 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:10pm

re: #520 FurryOldGuyJeans

Religion would be so much better without flawed believers and followers.

/ is it sarcasm, or is it memorex?

Not much point to it without 'em, though, is it?

;)

525 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:20pm
526 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:33pm

re: #512 SanFranciscoZionist

I as well. I had a chance to tour York, in the North of England, a few years ago.

It is a town with a beautiful cathedral. It is also the scene of one of the ugliest attacks on Jews in English history.

It's more complicated than faith/no faith. A lot more complicated.

Yes, I think it is too. I hate to see it when things are painted so broadly in the supposed godless regimes are cast as the only harbingers of hate and death in parts of our history when that simply isn't always the case. Specifically during the 3rd Reich there was a great deal of interplay. In any case were I see that failure I typically see man itself.

527 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:41pm

re: #499 Last Mohican

True, if you mean enjoyable for the rest of us.

I'm not so sure that hiddenlizard's reason for being here has much to do with respecting anyone.

LOL!

A little troll skewering.......

528 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:45pm

re: #487 hiddenlizard

You gave up the expectation of respect when you called me a "nutter".

529 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:46pm

Something always amazes me. People here enjoy the debate and each others' company.

Then a "Crusader" shows up.

What is a Crusader trying to fix?

Ever notice they all say something like, "What? Who did I offend? I didn't insult anybody. If y'all would just listen to me, I know all of the answers."

blah blah blah

530 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:36:59pm

Ah well, BBL, time to get to the house & family evening time.

See you in the AM with the towercam.

But here is the Towercam sunset.

Good Night All.

531 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:37:07pm

re: #487 hiddenlizard

I am entirely respectful. What about respect for MY views?

what about them?....you expect anybody to care?....neophyte

532 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:37:15pm

re: #480 Ojoe

Faith gets you this

No faith gets you this

Actually, I'm pretty sure there have been at least a few atheists who didn't build concentration camps and incinerate entire races of people.

533 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:37:22pm

re: #530 Ojoe

Ah well, BBL, time to get to the house & family evening time.

See you in the AM with the towercam.

But here is the Towercam sunset.

Good Night All.

Later Ojoe.

534 SteveC  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:37:32pm

re: #523 ArmyWife

Sometimes it's not about you. MOST times, it's not about you.

It's usually about me. Or her. Or him. Or that other guy. But almost never about hiddenlizard.

535 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:37:58pm

Late to this thread, went for a swim. In the alley. Yes, it's been raining that hard and long.

Apropos hobbits, anyone curious about my LotR-related downdings from the last thread can go there now and find out the reason why.

536 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:38:05pm

re: #521 Mich-again

Sam! ... Mr. Frodo! ... Sam! ... Mr. Frodo!

Repeat for 30 minutes.

The constant EXTENDED reaction shots was the one thing I disliked about the LoTR movies.

537 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:38:20pm
538 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:38:38pm

re: #529 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Something always amazes me. People here enjoy the debate and each others' company.

Then a "Crusader" shows up.

What is a Crusader trying to fix?

Ever notice they all say something like, "What? Who did I offend? I didn't insult anybody. If y'all would just listen to me, I know all of the answers."

blah blah blah

Yeah. I didn't feel at all more saved than before. I feel a little more dirty now to tell the truth. I'm going to wash my hands. BBIAW

539 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:39:04pm

re: #487 hiddenlizard

I am entirely respectful. What about respect for MY views?

Take heart, Mr. Troll. We all think Ayn Rand is totally awesome too.

540 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:39:16pm

re: #525 momcat

my girl 7 and lotr is what i am currently reading to her for bedtime stories.
my kid is strange, she likes the black riders/wraiths : (
in star wars....darth vader ?!

Bad guys are deeply interesting to everyone, and I think to kids especially. They break rules. They are BAD. That's interesting when you are seven, and learning about pushing the social envelope yourself.

541 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:39:47pm

re: #540 SanFranciscoZionist

girls and their bad boys. I married mine.

542 Truck Monkey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:39:48pm

re: #459 HelloDare

You know what's really nutters? Somebody who would wear this t-shirt.

Look at the Moobs on that dude!

543 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:40:05pm

re: #487 hiddenlizard

I am entirely respectful. What about respect for MY views?

If how you are acting is what you consider respectful, then I'd rather you be a horse's ass.

544 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:40:53pm

re: #531 albusteve

what about them?....you expect anybody to care?....neophyte

I'm willing to care. But I didn't get an answer to my last question, and it wasn't totally rhetorical. Until I hear why faith has to be blind, I can't get any forrader.

545 VioletTiger  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:40:54pm

re: #542 Truck Monkey

Look at the Moobs on that dude!

He needs a bro.

546 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:41:38pm

re: #540 SanFranciscoZionist

Bad guys are deeply interesting to everyone, and I think to kids especially. They break rules. They are BAD. That's interesting when you are seven, and learning about pushing the social envelope yourself.

My kids always asked more questions about the evil characters' motivations in Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. It seemed like the more information they had about something that was threatening the less stressed out they were by it.

547 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:41:47pm

re: #542 Truck Monkey

Look at the Moobs on that dude!

I think that's a girl. No hair on the arms.

Not a sensitive test, but reliable in daily life

548 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:41:51pm

re: #528 Dark_Falcon

You gave up the expectation of respect when you called me a "nutter".

But you are, ain't ya? ;)

549 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:41:55pm

re: #529 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Something always amazes me. People here enjoy the debate and each others' company.

Then a "Crusader" shows up.

What is a Crusader trying to fix?

Ever notice they all say something like, "What? Who did I offend? I didn't insult anybody. If y'all would just listen to me, I know all of the answers."

blah blah blah


ME! ME! It's all about MOI.
MEMEMEMEME!

550 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:42:16pm

Watching the Wizard Of Oz, I find myself wishing just ONCE they'd let the Witch win.

Dammit.

551 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:42:19pm

re: #415 hiddenlizard

Oh, go fuck yourself.

552 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:04pm

re: #549 Jim in Virginia

That's the meme.

553 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:09pm

re: #551 MandyManners

Oh, go fuck yourself.

Game, set & match.

554 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:25pm

re: #548 FurryOldGuyJeans

But you are, ain't ya? ;)

I'm a little crazy, I admit to that. :)

555 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:36pm

re: #550 irongrampa

Watching the Wizard Of Oz, I find myself wishing just ONCE they'd let the Witch win.

Dammit.

Have you read "Wicked"?

556 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:39pm

re: #344 pingjockey

Help! Every time I see the name Elrond, I flash to that dingbat L. Ron Hubbard! Damn!

Hey L. Ron was an excellent writer first. And a Dianetics/Scientology looney a far second.

Battlefield Earth (the book, not the movies) was and still is awsome Sci Fi.

557 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:52pm

re: #551 MandyManners

Oh, go fuck yourself.

What? No "go piss up a rope"?

You've mellowed, Mandy. ;)

558 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:52pm

re: #550 irongrampa

Watching the Wizard Of Oz, I find myself wishing just ONCE they'd let the Witch win.

Dammit.

Go see Wicked. Its awesome.

559 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:44:21pm

re: #544 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm willing to care. But I didn't get an answer to my last question, and it wasn't totally rhetorical. Until I hear why faith has to be blind, I can't get any forrader.

common courtesy seems important to me somehow...he has none

560 SteveC  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:44:31pm

re: #549 Jim in Virginia

ME! ME! It's all about MOI.
MEMEMEMEME!

We talk about your work how your boss is a jerk
We talk about your church and your head when it hurts
We talk about the troubles you've been having with your brother
About your daddy and your mother and your crazy ex-lover
We talk about your friends and the places that you've been
We talk about your skin and the dimples on your chin
The polish on your toes and the run in your hose
And God knows we're gonna talk about your clothes
You know talking about you makes me smile
But every once in awhile
I wanna talk about me!

561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:44:55pm

re: #525 momcat

my girl 7 and lotr is what i am currently reading to her for bedtime stories.
my kid is strange, she likes the black riders/wraiths : (
in star wars....darth vader ?!

In "Paradise Lost"? Debbil is a whole lot more interesting than God.

562 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:45:47pm

re: #539 Last Mohican

Take heart, Mr. Troll. We all think Ayn Rand is totally awesome too.

I don't. She wasn't fit to wipe the spittle from the lips of Nietzsche's burnt-out, insane Weimaraner husk.

And anyone who actually thinks altruism is evil can suck on an exhaust pipe.

563 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:45:55pm

re: #555 livefreeor die

No. A good read, I assume?

564 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:04pm

re: #549 Jim in Virginia

ME! ME! It's all about MOI.
MEMEMEMEME!

Hey, what about ME?

565 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:25pm

re: #556 dwells38

Yeah. Battlefield Earth was pretty good sci fi...

566 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:42pm

re: #517 Ojoe

No, that faithlesness leads to disconnection from God, and with that gone, so is respect for one's fellow human beings; then the worst horrors are possible.

Using your logic, Christopher Hitchens should have no respect for his fellow human beings. But Hitchens is pro-life. He has respect for human life that some religious people would kill.

I am close friends with four atheists that are pro-life. I know many religious people who have had abortions.

You made an absolute statement that is simply not true.

567 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:13pm

re: #565 experiencedtraveller

Yeah. Battlefield Earth was pretty good sci fi...

Until you realize that it's part of Travolta's religious dogma.

568 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:48pm

Currently, I'm rereading Atlas Shrugged, and finding some scary parallels doing it.

569 Liberal Classic  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:48pm

re: #480 Ojoe

Faith gets you this

No faith gets you this

I really must object to this characterization that atheism is somehow culpable for the holocaust in the strongest possible terms. Germany was, and still is, a predominantly Protestant Christian nation. The people who ran the Nazi regime lived their lives as normal, even continuing to attend church. This teach us that the capacity to engage in monstrous acts is a universal human failing. If someone possesses a religious faith, it is no guarantee that this person won't commit acts of brutality, either personally or as part of a sweeping social movement. We must always remain on guard against tyranny. It can come from anywhere, including ourselves.

570 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:54pm

re: #486 livefreeor die

You mean "Homo clintonensis"?

That is just so worthy of both a down and up ding. ;)

571 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:49:41pm

re: #563 irongrampa

No. A good read, I assume?

Excellent! Actually, all the books by that author are great. He takes classic stories and looks at them from completely different perspectives.

572 Nemesis6  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:50:15pm

re: #415 hiddenlizard

I don't understand why this was rated down. Come on, think about it: There's a magic man in the sky? Come on now, religion IS absurd. The only way not to feel this way about it is: To be a theist, or not to think about it.

Like the saying loosely goes: The best weapon against Christianity is the Bible.

573 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:51:32pm

re: #572 Nemesis6

Oh brother, not another one.

GAZE

574 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:51:51pm

re: #441 hiddenlizard

I fully aware of how "off-base" I am. I am not sorry and I am doing nothing wrong for confidently expressing my views, or being "cocky".

hl, that's going to cost you. Is the grill getting hot?
/

575 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:52:40pm

re: #568 irongrampa

Currently, I'm rereading Atlas Shrugged, and finding some scary parallels doing it.


I just finished that a few weeks ago. Definitely scary right now. Although saying you're "Going Galt" is a great way to determine who else around you is not an Obama fan.

576 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:01pm

re: #425 hiddenlizard

This reallllly isn't debatable. You are telling me that creation out of nothing is not nutters? Zombies aren't nutters? Burning bushes that talk aren't nutters? Don't make me say the obvious!

Al Gore? Is that you?

577 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:08pm

re: #574 NelsFree

hl, that's going to cost you. Is the grill getting hot?
/

We're going to need a freezer too for all the leftovers from tonight.

578 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:21pm

re: #509 HelloDare

Are you heading down the Ben Stein road of "science leads to killiing people"?

I couldn't tell if that was a concentration camp or just squalor. You know like....no faith gets you squalor? But if he meant no faith gets you concentration camps that's pretty low down.

579 rain of lead  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:25pm

re: #537 Iron Fist
true, and there's that whole breathing thing

580 Nemesis6  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:26pm

re: #573 Dark_Falcon

Flying spaghetti monster worshiper? Gravitationalist? Give a clue.

581 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #573 Dark_Falcon

Oh brother, not another one.

GAZE

Gamey Troll Buttocks is back on the menu!

582 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:52pm

re: #567 Cato the Elder

Until you realize that it's part of Travolta's religious dogma.

Yeah. But freedom allows me to overlook John Travolta...

583 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:32pm

re: #573 Dark_Falcon

Oh brother, not another one.

GAZE

Feel the love!

584 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:51pm

re: #580 Nemesis6

Flying spaghetti monster worshiper? Gravitationalist? Give a clue.

Turtle Stack.

585 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:58:40pm

re: #580 Nemesis6

Here's your clue:

SMACK!

586 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:16pm

re: #575 livefreeor die

I just finished that a few weeks ago. Definitely scary right now. Although saying you're "Going Galt" is a great way to determine who else around you is not an Obama fan.

Also a great way to determine who has a hugely inflated opinion of himself.

587 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:35pm

re: #577 livefreeor die

We're going to need a freezer too for all the leftovers from tonight.

My dog is hungry...and big!

588 Nemesis6  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:54pm

re: #585 Dark_Falcon

A violent person?

589 sandspur  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:59pm

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but The Hobbit and LotR came out in ebook format a week or so ago.

590 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:01:09pm

re: #512 SanFranciscoZionist

I as well. I had a chance to tour York, in the North of England, a few years ago.

It is a town with a beautiful cathedral. It is also the scene of one of the ugliest attacks on Jews in English history.

It's more complicated than faith/no faith. A lot more complicated.

I was there last summer. Beauitiful. Saw the Viking exhibit and Clifford's Tower. Such a great trip.

AND I visited San Francisco the previous summer.

You don't happen to know someone who knows Kevin Bacon.....?

591 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:16pm

re: #588 Nemesis6

You are earning obnoxious asshole hands down.

592 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:06pm

re: #588 Nemesis6

Nope, just someone who doesn't like being insulted.

593 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:21pm

Well, this thread is tapering off. Hiddenlizard, you may yet get a reprieve. I'm off to the next big thing, whatever that is.

594 Nemesis6  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:05:51pm

re: #591 FurryOldGuyJeans

Uhuh, for asking him not to be snarky? I'm sorry but I call people on their bullshit, including the wizard in the sky thing.

595 itellu3times  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:23pm

Were these little guys Darwinists, huh, were they?

I rest my case.
/

596 Throbert McGee  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:45pm

re: #1 stuiec

This actually lends credence to the Hawaiian legends of the menehune.

When I was a junior-high lad on Kadena AFB, Okinawa, my Boy Scout Troop was called "The Menehunes." (Why? Because one of the older scouts already had a really nifty "Menehunes" flag from the the Troop he was in at his dad's previous posting.)

597 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:07:24pm

Back for a moment...

In my mind the concentration camps and the Holocaust were the result of an actual, functional disconnect from the Creator.

You may call this athiesm if you want; I was not trying to tar atheists at all, atheism I think is a mind thing and I am speaking of human heart things in my post with the two pictures.

It is one's connection to the Creator that gives one the ability to see the worth of other human beings. Often this is called faith... If you really have a connection you will treat others with respect.

It is the no-connection from whence the terrible things come, or it is what allows them to come from another source.

598 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:04pm

re: #578 dwells38

That's exactly what he meant.

599 Nemesis6  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:10:16pm

re: #592 Dark_Falcon

So you tried to insult me because I looked like someone who didn't like being insulted? Well that's ok, the invisible wizard in the sky is still my friend.

600 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:17:38pm

re: #532 Last Mohican

Actually, I'm pretty sure there have been at least a few atheists who didn't build concentration camps and incinerate entire races of people.

The worst I've ever done is put in one of those invisible fences in for my dogs. But that's just so they don't terrorize the neighbors cats. Or run out to the big road.

601 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:24:16pm

re: #466 irongrampa

So what, I wonder, will we eventually evolve into?

There is no end point, it just keeps going.

602 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:30:34pm

Kirk Cameron, what sayeth thee?

603 Cato  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:39:11pm

It was the size of my sister-in-law and had bad feet? It must be one of my wife's ancestors, not mine.

604 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:43:37pm

re: #598 HelloDare

My comment has nothing to do with science.

605 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:56:09pm

re: #580 Nemesis6

Flying spaghetti monster worshiper? Gravitationalist? Give a clue.

How about a rude, insulting, disrespectful, smarmy interloper.
There are ways to make a point without the foul pompous attitude, often times referred to as a turd in the puchbowl.

606 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:17:32pm

re: #578 dwells38

I couldn't tell if that was a concentration camp or just squalor. You know like....no faith gets you squalor? But if he meant no faith gets you concentration camps that's pretty low down.

re: #598 HelloDare

That's exactly what he meant.

re: #604 Ojoe

My comment has nothing to do with science.

My comment 598 was in reply to comment 578.

Your earlier post 480 was in response to post 415 which was about religion vs. reason and logic.

So when you said "Faith gets you this, No faith gets you this" I thought you were talking about faith vs. reason and logic (science). That's why I asked if you were going down the Ben Stein road.

Since the Wedge Document proves that creationism is about getting religion in schools and not about science, I hope you can see why I asked the question.

607 Ojoe  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:03pm

re: #606 HelloDare

Yes I see.

608 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:35:08pm

re: #581 FurryOldGuyJeans

Gamey Troll Buttocks is back on the menu!

It's always a pain to ask for something that's off-menu.

609 pbird  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:52:35pm

re: #542 Truck Monkey

Look at the Moobs on that dude!

That there is a woman.

610 Nemesis6  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:59:57pm

re: #605 solomonpanting

I was not the one who started flaming just to flame. Of all the comments you could have taken issue with on the grounds of disrespect, you took mine. Make of that what you will.

Not respecting someone's religion is not the same as disrespecting the individual and I happen to hold the view that religion is not entitled to respect. It takes in billions of dollars in in order to (and performing) intimidate, scare, and make itself more powerful. Moreover, it has, quite ironically, created the idea that ideals or opinions should be respected moreso than people. In light of that, it's not surprising that many insecure people who define themselves by their religion see my opinion about religion as an attack on them -- As me being insulting, disrespectful, or taking an attitude towards them as an individual, I don't see how that's my fault. And on the subject of religion, religion is divisive at its core: It breeds, nourishes, and feeds the notion that it's US against THEM.

Most people don't realize that there's a difference between religion and spirituality. I respect spirituality, because that's private. I don't respect religion because religion is tyranny and empowerment of the few; the priests, the cardinals, the bishops who make so much money off of the broken hope, aspirations and desires of people. Just give us some money and we'll make it all better. Better yet, before you send us your money, cover it in this holy water which you can buy for just 9.99, then you will never be broke another day of your life!

Sorry for the Popoff reference there, but he's really a brilliant example. Now to anyone who doesn't like me or my opinion about religion, why don't you take a look at Matthew 5:43-48? It says "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you". So how about it? Instead of your butthurt attitude, get on those knees God gave you, fold those hands together, and pray for me if you want me to see the error of my ways.

That is, of course, if you're not being a hypocritical asshole who wants me to respect something you cannot even follow yourself.

611 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:00:48pm

re: #610 Nemesis6

As me being insulting, disrespectful, or taking an attitude towards them as an individual, I don't see how that's my fault.

Nope. It wasn't your fault. It was the evil Skippy who made you do it.

That is, of course, if you're not being a hypocritical asshole who wants me to respect something you cannot even follow yourself.

See? It's not really you posting these comments.

612 SixDegrees  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:27:01pm
A team led by William Jungers of the Stony Brook University in New York tackled the problem from the other end by analysing the hobbit’s foot. In some ways it is very human. The big toe is aligned with the others and the joints make it possible to extend the toes as the body’s full weight falls on the foot, attributes not found in great apes.

But, in other respects, it is startlingly primitive: far longer than its modern human equivalent, and equipped with a very small big toe, long, curved lateral toes, and a weight-bearing structure closer to a chimpanzee’s.

Oh, damn - it sounds almost...transitional!

613 Nemesis6  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:05:15am

re: #611 solomonpanting

Fail troll fails.

614 pygmalienation  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:11:26am
...the tiny, tool-making hunters may have roamed the island for which they were named as recently as 8,000 years ago. The fossils are about 18,000 years old. ...


This is so fascinating! These little guys were running around just the other day by geological time standards (actually more like 5 seconds ago, but whose counting?). Certainly modern humans would've had the chance to encounter them, giving credence to legends and folklore that we would have dismissed as primitive mythology before this discovery.

615 Yashmak  Thu, May 7, 2009 7:25:00am

re: #597 Ojoe

In my mind the concentration camps and the Holocaust were the result of an actual, functional disconnect from the Creator.. . .
It is one's connection to the Creator that gives one the ability to see the worth of other human beings. Often this is called faith... If you really have a connection you will treat others with respect.

I disagree. It's something else that gives you the ability to see the worth of other human beings. It must be, because I can, and I don't believe in the creator. Pretty much every atheist or agnostic I have ever met has valued other human beings, but lacked the faith you deem necessary for that to occur. Obviously, it's something all people, religious or not, are capable of having.

616 meh130  Thu, May 7, 2009 8:06:45am

Hmmm, one meter tall. I recommend an immediate DNA sample from Robert Reich to see if there is a match. We may have found the evolutionary missing link between Reich and Bonobos.

Should include Tom Cruise, Jon Stewart, and Dick Morris as well. I think they are all just under one meter in height, so there is a likely connection there as well.

617 eaglewingz08  Thu, May 7, 2009 8:14:17am

So now we know who Randy Newman wrote about in his song, Short People, got no reason to live....

618 SecondComing  Thu, May 7, 2009 12:58:59pm

"Dr." Kent Hovind's head just exploded inside the federal pen.


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