Chris Matthews and Tom Tancredo Promote ‘Intelligent Design’ Creationism

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Science • Wed May 6, 2009 at 7:42 pm PDT • Views: 563

If you thought last night’s video featuring Chris Matthews interviewing a ducking, dodging Mike Pence about the GOP’s inexplicable attachment to creationism was something, wait ‘til you see this one.

This time Matthews interviews Tom Tancredo, who spouts Discovery Institute talking points about “intelligent design” creationism as expected (including his desire to have this anti-science nonsense taught in science classes, and a bogus, out of context Charles Darwin quote), but the surprising thing is that Matthews comes off as only slightly less ignorant than Tancredo, agreeing with him that “intelligent design” is a valid scientific theory and nodding along as Tancredo advocates teaching it to children. Pathetic.

This is how “intelligent design” creationism advances its agenda, through ignorance and misrepresentation. See: The Wedge Strategy.

UPDATE at 5/6/09 8:05:00 pm:

Here’s the entire Charles Darwin quote that Tom Tancredo misrepresented. Note that in much of “The Origin of Species,” Darwin asks questions about weaknesses in his theory, then answers them. Creationists and ID advocates invariably quote the questions, but leave out the answers. This is from The Quote Mine Project: Darwin Quotes:

But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? It will be more convenient to discuss this question in the chapter on the Imperfection of the Geological Record; and I will here only state that I believe the answer mainly lies in the record being incomparably less perfect than is generally supposed. The crust of the earth is a vast museum; but the natural collections have been imperfectly made, and only at long intervals of time.

The Quote Mine Project fills in more of the missing context:

Besides leaving out the context, this is misleading in a subtler way when used for the proposition that there are no transitional forms. Darwin is not talking about the existence or nonexistence of transitionals here, but of an “innumerable” series of finely-graded transitionals linking together all extinct and existing forms. As he says later in Chapter XI of the sixth edition on page 342:

These causes [the imperfection of the fossil record, the limited exploration of the record, poor fossilization of certain body types, etc.], taken conjointly, will to a large extent explain why — though we do find many links — we do not find interminable varieties, connecting together all extinct and existing forms by the finest graduated steps. It should also be constantly borne in mind that any linking variety between two forms, which might be found, would be ranked, unless the whole chain could be perfectly restored, as a new and distinct species; for it is not pretended that we have any sure criterion by which species and varieties can be discriminated.

In short, the use of the quote to imply there are no transitionals misstates Darwin’s argument, intentionally or out of ignorance. Darwin was not stating that there was an absence of transitionals but, in fact, stated there were “many links.” Instead, he was discussing why there are not more transitionals in an easily read pattern of gradual change. As Darwin correctly noted, where the fossil record does not approach “perfection,” it is difficult, if not impossible, to tell by morphology alone exactly where any particular organism would fall within such a graduated series. Thus, such an organism might be classified as a distinct species from either the original or the subsequent ones. However, such organisms, being general morphological intermediates between different forms, as in the case of Archaeopteryx, would, along with other evidence, support an inference of evolutionary change over time through common descent. The fossil record may not be easy to read, but it is not devoid of information either.

Even if the quote stood for what the quote miners claim it does, Darwin was writing almost 150 years ago, at a time early in the scientific study of fossils and when few scientists were expecting to find “transitional forms.”

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672 comments

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1 pegcity  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:42:59pm

GOP clean your house

2 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:45pm

Good gravvy. Tancredo?

3 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:43:57pm

Tom Tancredo was like the 4th or 5th best candidate the GOP had for POTUS last year. That's pretty damn sad.

4 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:44:01pm
5 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:44:11pm

The merdia(c) strikes again.

(c)Copyright Salamantis 2009

6 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:44:54pm

Moronic convergence alert.

7 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:45:11pm

Considering the recent poll that showed most Americans can't answer general science questions, it isn't surprising Matthews is ignorant. The DI specifically made ID appealing and misleading.

8 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:45:43pm

re: #5 Jimmah

The merdia(c) strikes again.

(c)Copyright Salamantis 2009

And the merde has hit the fan.

9 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:45:47pm

Must be a new PR press being conducted by the "Discovery" Institute.

10 Gella  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:03pm

next time when he gets sick, let him tell his doc he is anti-science

11 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:07pm

No doubt about it, the disco dudes will see this interview as a win for them. So much of their ignorance got a free pass on the back of an inadequately briefed host.

12 researchok  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:17pm

Swine flu isn't the problem.

Apparently it is stupidity that is contagious.

13 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:36pm

Matthews pandering to a different audience?
Ratings must be way off.

14 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:48pm

For a second there, I thought Tancredo was going to say that he was only an unfrozen caveman lawyer.

15 Archimedes  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:53pm

I don't think I can stomach listening to two dummies in one video.

16 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:46:56pm

Is it wrong that I like to take my mouse over the video, where it becomes a hand icon with the index finger pointing out, and shove it up Chris Matthews' nose?

17 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:01pm

RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!

18 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:13pm

Dysdiscovery institute

19 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:27pm

Tancredo too?

Dammit, I swear, before Charles started all these creationism threads, I really did assume that nobody had been trying to get this crap taught in schools since the 1950's.

20 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:52pm
21 Archimedes  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:56pm

re: #17 MandyManners

RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!

If only.

22 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:47:59pm

re: #16 Sharmuta

Is it wrong that I like to take my mouse over the video, where it becomes a hand icon with the index finger pointing out, and shove it up Chris Matthews' nose?

Yes. Maybe you should figure out a way to shove it up his ass.

23 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:48:04pm

gag me...a layman looking at evidence...good lord

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:48:14pm

re: #20 Iron Fist

Um, it is somewhat disturbing, but, hey, if it is what you like to do...

And it doesn't hurt anyone...not even Chris Matthews...

25 VioletTiger  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:48:22pm

re: #16 Sharmuta

Is it wrong that I like to take my mouse over the video, where it becomes a hand icon with the index finger pointing out, and shove it up Chris Matthews' nose?

Go right ahead, dear. And apply some duck tape to his mouth while you are at it.

26 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:48:25pm

Let's see- we have Huntsman against ID. Who else in the GOP? Anyone?

27 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:48:38pm

re: #4 Iron Fist

If Chrissy Mathews is for it, then it is really fucked up...

When Republicans become easy targets for stupid journalists then maybe it's time to rethink things. Dumb Chris Mathews can do this all day long, it's easy.

28 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:50:07pm

"Religious dogma isn't a part of Intelligent Design."
What is Tancredo smoking?

29 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:50:40pm

Can someone 'splain to me why we can discuss "mutating" viruses with no exploding heads or hellfire and damnation?

30 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:50:41pm
I'm not a scientist, I'm just a layman.

So please listen in as I make a complete fool of myself talking about science.

31 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:51:07pm

Chris Matthews and intelligence don't belong in proximity.

32 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:51:44pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Me. But I'm not sure I count for much. Vote for me anyway, though, ok?

33 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:51:59pm

you say micro, I say macro...
let's call the whole thing off

34 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:52:14pm

The Republican party that emerges on the other side of this will be healthy. The only question is how long this will take.

35 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:52:20pm

This reminds me of the first chapter in Virginia Postrel's The Future and Its Enemies, where she talks about Pat Buchanan and Jeremy Rifkin agreeing with each other on technology issues.

36 VioletTiger  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:52:42pm

Was I the only one who saw the Disco Institute interview on Fax and Friends this morning? Steve Dousy interviwed Casey Lusky, who claimed that all our biology textbooks are wrong. He had all the the Disco talkin points and nobody was on to give an opposing viewpoint. I

37 nonic  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:52:48pm

I have a question that I would very much appreciate any speculative answers to from anyone who feels he/she has anything to offer on these issues. I have phrased my question in several ways to facilitate a would-be answerer gaining purchase on the substance of the question.

Disclaimer: Please note that I am not making any claims; I am not taking any positions; I am not standing in any camp. I am not criticizing or mocking anyone who takes any position on any issue related to this topic. I will not engage in any argument or even discussion of any answers offered. I am merely trying to clarify a particular point of the anti-ID position as understood by people of that position. Please do not assume you know my opinion.

Government, academic, and private science have been searching for decades for evidence of extra-terrestrial intelligence. See the SETI Institute at [Link: www.seti.org...]

What if they find it?

(1) Does the anti-ID position necessarily PRECLUDE the possibility that some intelligence did form matter as we know it and did seed and shape life on Earth (through its tool, evolution), and that that intelligence might be what we would call an alien life form from another planet, galaxy, or universe?

(a) In other words, does the anti-ID position REQUIRE matter and life to have originated from nothing or from itself, but not from any source outside of itself (i.e., an “intelligent designer”), regardless of the possible existence of other life forms now unknown to us?...

(b) …..Or, would a source outside of itself be acceptable, as long as that source could be proved in some possible way to be NON-DEISTIC --- i.e., a non-“god”, that is, possessing no powers that our then current science could not explain (even as postulation) as part of the natural phenomena of the universe as we know it?

(2) If an alien life form, which made no claim of deism, were to present itself to Earth dwellers and claim that it did form the matter we know and did seed and/or shape life on Earth –- in other words, proclaimed itself to be a non-deistic “intelligent designer” --- would the anti-ID position be able to accept its proofs of formational activity?...

(a) …..Or, would any claim by any entity of INTENTIONAL formation of matter and life disqualify that entity from serious scientific study?

(b) Conversely, if an alien life form were to convincingly claim itself to be Earth’s “intelligent designer’ and be accepted as such by science --- but also proclaimed itself a “god” or a “god species,” would that change the scientific value of observations about the entity or phenomena surrounding it?

38 Truck Monkey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:52:54pm

re: #13 Jim in Virginia

Matthews pandering to a different audience?
Ratings must be way off.

He never had any ratings. I think PBS draws a bigger share than this dope.

39 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:53:10pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

The Republican party that emerges on the other side of this will be healthy. The only question is how long this will take.

I'm all for a big floor fight in 2012 at the RNC.

40 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:53:12pm

re: #35 gmsc

F. A. Hayek thought conservatives and socialists had a lot in common.

41 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:53:29pm

re: #37 nonic

yes.

42 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:02pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

The Republican party that emerges on the other side of this will be healthy. The only question is how long this will take.

Knowing the GOP as it is now, it'll take longer than mid-term elections. Then depending on the state of the economy, will have a good showing in 2012

43 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:07pm

re: #37 nonic

Have you heard of theistic evolution?

44 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:11pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Who knows? My guess would be about 16 years or so.

45 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:14pm

re: #36 VioletTiger

Was I the only one who saw the Disco Institute interview on Fax and Friends this morning? Steve Dousy interviwed Casey Lusky, who claimed that all our biology textbooks are wrong. He had all the the Disco talkin points and nobody was on to give an opposing viewpoint. I

I saw that, too. I think the DI people are out on a PR mission.

46 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:21pm

"...the one (ID) is equal to the other (evolution)", Tancredo says, as Matthews nods, smiling.
What a couple of putzes.

47 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:36pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

The Republican party that emerges on the other side of this will be healthy. The only question is how long this will take.

I'm guessing about another 6000 years

48 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:43pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

Never mind- I'll shut up now.

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:54:52pm

re: #29 ArmyWife

Can someone 'splain to me why we can discuss "mutating" viruses with no exploding heads or hellfire and damnation?

Because viruses are the devil's work, and are allowed to mutate?

Or because the people who spew this sort of thing don't understand the connection between 'mutation' and 'evolution'?

50 Truck Monkey  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:55:30pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

The Republican party that emerges on the other side of this will be healthy. The only question is how long this will take.

Better happen before Teleprompter Jesus and his crew run this Chevy over the cliff!

51 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:55:40pm
52 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:55:43pm

re: #40 jaunte

F. A. Hayek thought conservatives and socialists had a lot in common.

Virginia Postrel's point is that there are really only two political types – those who want to keep things the same, and those who are open to change. Further, she points out that these types cross political boundaries.

53 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:18pm

re: #49 SanFranciscoZionist


Or because the people who spew this sort of thing don't understand the connection between 'mutation' and 'evolution'?

That sounds about right to me.

54 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:20pm

It's just maddening to hear Tancredo claim there are no "transitional fossils."

This is a creationist talking point that's been around for at least 100 years, and it hasn't been true for a LONG time. Dozens of transitional fossils have been discovered, including some that are unmistakable proof for the theory of evolution.

Things that make you go "Aaarrggghhh..."

55 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:30pm

re: #51 Iron Fist

Who would you see as representing the sides? I'm not seeing any leaders out there right now except maybe Palin, and the Dems and press are going to spend the next couple of years making sure that she is toxic.

I think Mandy had a subtly-made suggestion just upthread

56 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:33pm

re: #19 Last Mohican

60% of the GOP polled believe in creationism, and not evolution.

Any leader, or wanna-be leader in this case, of the GOP thus will have to reflect (publicly, if not privately) the sentiments of the base.

57 Conservative Moonbat  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:38pm

I doubt Matthews agrees with him. He just likes kissing guest ass to get them to talk more.

I don't get why he's still on the air. I don't know a single person on the left or the right who can tolerate the bastard.

58 HoosierHoops  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:57pm

re: #29 ArmyWife

Can someone 'splain to me why we can discuss "mutating" viruses with no exploding heads or hellfire and damnation?

Well the entire Universe has evolved..from the oldest star in the furthest galaxy to the smallest virus..The only thing in the Universe that doesn't evolve is Humans.. We are a super duper special species..
/

59 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:56:57pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

The Republican party that emerges on the other side of this will be healthy. The only question is how long this will take.

The Leafs haven't won the Cup since 1967.
Just sayin'...

60 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:13pm

re: #37 nonic

(a) In other words, does the anti-ID position REQUIRE matter and life to have originated from nothing or from itself, but not from any source outside of itself (i.e., an “intelligent designer”), regardless of the possible existence of other life forms now unknown to us?...

Are you assuming everyone who is anti-ID believes in one or another theories for abiogenesis? It sounds like it.

61 adilo  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:16pm

Words (evolution, science, theory...) have lost all meaning to these folks. Negative intellectual content interview.

62 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:18pm

re: #51 Iron Fist

Who would you see as representing the sides? I'm not seeing any leaders out there right now except maybe Palin, and the Dems and press are going to spend the next couple of years making sure that she is toxic.

Newt will step forth and see if his disgressions are forgiven

63 nonic  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:44pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

Have you heard of theistic evolution?

No. But I'm more interested in the interpretative possibilities were a non-theistic life form to claim to have built our planet and settled it with life.

64 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:44pm

re: #54 Charles

It's just maddening to hear Tancredo claim there are no "transitional fossils."

This is a creationist talking point that's been around for at least 100 years, and it hasn't been true for a LONG time. Dozens of transitional fossils have been discovered, including some that are unmistakable proof for the theory of evolution.

Things that make you go "Aaarrggghhh..."

They want fossils that show "day to day" changes. Therefore, any fossils that skip a change, they decry as false.

65 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:58pm

I HOPE THAT EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

66 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:57:58pm

re: #49 SanFranciscoZionist

Because viruses are the devil's work, and are allowed to mutate?

Or because the people who spew this sort of thing don't understand the connection between 'mutation' and 'evolution'?

There have been several - to me hilarious - discussions here on LGF where creationists have actually challenged naturalistic explanations for the appearance of new viruses. Yep - some people are insane enough to want to credit God for taking the time to design ebola, aids etc.

67 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:58:53pm

No transitional fossils?

WTF is Arlen Specter?

68 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:58:58pm

re: #52 gmsc

Virginia Postrel's point is that there are really only two political types – those who want to keep things the same, and those who are open to change. Further, she points out that these types cross political boundaries.

Hayek thought that socialists (progressives) and conservative (stasists) were both willing to coerce others to get their way. He distinguished classical liberals as being willing to let others be.

69 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:58:58pm
70 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:09pm

re: #54 Charles

It's just maddening to hear Tancredo claim there are no "transitional fossils."

This is a creationist talking point that's been around for at least 100 years, and it hasn't been true for a LONG time. Dozens of transitional fossils have been discovered, including some that are unmistakable proof for the theory of evolution.

Things that make you go "Aaarrggghhh..."

What kills me is that *I* KNOW HE IS NOT STUPID.

71 ryannon  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:29pm

Speaking of Darwin, I'm beginning to think that hard-core Lizards are going to go extinct - or at the very least become a menaced species due to the gradual erosion of their environment.

Moonbats on the left, Wingnuts on the right, and very little in-between. If things keep on going like this, we're going to end up as ideological roadkill.

72 livefreeor die  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:30pm

re: #67 Shug

No transitional fossils?

WTF is Arlen Specter?

An a%$#hole.

73 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 7:59:41pm

re: #49 SanFranciscoZionist

Because viruses are the devil's work, and are allowed to mutate?

Or because the people who spew this sort of thing don't understand the connection between 'mutation' and 'evolution'?

Here's a refresher course for those people!

74 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:00:11pm

re: #70 MandyManners

What kills me is that *I* KNOW HE IS NOT STUPID.

it's the Party line now...he's a lifer looking for his next job

75 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:00:19pm

re: #57 Conservative Moonbat

I doubt Matthews agrees with him. He just likes kissing guest ass to get them to talk more.

I don't get why he's still on the air. I don't know a single person on the left or the right who can tolerate the bastard.

Actually, hatred from all quarters can make a good journalist.

76 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:00:23pm

re: #51 Iron Fist

Who would you see as representing the sides?

Its too early to predict the candidates, but I can see a bruhaha between the Paleocons and Middle Earth.

77 nonic  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:00:28pm

re: #60 Mich-again

Are you assuming everyone who is anti-ID believes in one or another theories for abiogenesis? It sounds like it.

I'm not assuming anything -- I'm asking.

78 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:00:55pm

re: #74 albusteve

it's the Party line now...he's a lifer looking for his next job

Fucking pod people.

79 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:01:03pm

re: #29 ArmyWife

Can someone 'splain to me why we can discuss "mutating" viruses with no exploding heads or hellfire and damnation?

Because there are those, like Tancredo, who believe in intraspecies evolution but not interspecies.

80 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:01:10pm

re: #65 MandyManners

I HOPE THAT EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

Not only did I vote for McCain, I convinced a "moderate liberal" that he was a better choice than Obama. Though I'm no McCain fan myself, I know we both made the right choice. The problem is most Americans want to vote for the winner and the media proclaimed Obama the winner long before Nov 4th.

81 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:01:47pm

re: #54 Charles

It's just maddening to hear Tancredo claim there are no "transitional fossils."

This is a creationist talking point that's been around for at least 100 years, and it hasn't been true for a LONG time. Dozens of transitional fossils have been discovered, including some that are unmistakable proof for the theory of evolution.

Things that make you go "Aaarrggghhh..."

I'd like to take him to the Field Museum in Chicago. The amphibian transitional fossil found in Canada is prominently exhibited there.

82 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:01:49pm
83 fizzlogic  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:02pm

re: #65 MandyManners

I HOPE THAT EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

Don't forget that McCain chose the future of the Party by choosing Palin as his running mate.

84 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:07pm

The left will straighten Matthews out about creationism. Imagine how embarrassed they must be.

85 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:10pm

re: #71 ryannon

Moonbats on the left, Wingnuts on the right, and very little in-between. If things keep on going like this, we're going to end up as ideological roadkill.

uh, nope. Not in the cards.

86 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:16pm

They are stuck on stupid

87 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:18pm

Wonder if time-lapse photography can settle this debate.

88 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:34pm

re: #65 MandyManners

I HOPE THAT EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

Do your neighbors complain about all the yelling?

89 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:35pm

re: #71 ryannon

Speaking of Darwin, I'm beginning to think that hard-core Lizards are going to go extinct - or at the very least become a menaced species due to the gradual erosion of their environment.

Moonbats on the left, Wingnuts on the right, and very little in-between. If things keep on going like this, we're going to end up as ideological roadkill.

Haul yer scaly ass off the road, amigo!

90 Conservative Moonbat  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:48pm

re: #70 MandyManners

What kills me is that *I* KNOW HE IS NOT STUPID.

That doesn't mean he can't pander to the votes of stupid people.

91 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:02:52pm

re: #80 simonml

Not only did I vote for McCain, I convinced a "moderate liberal" that he was a better choice than Obama. Though I'm no McCain fan myself, I know we both made the right choice. The problem is most Americans want to vote for the winner and the media proclaimed Obama the winner long before Nov 4th.

You have a point but, it goes way beyond that.

92 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:34pm

re: #88 HelloDare

Do your neighbors complain about all the yelling?

I live in the ****ry.

93 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:37pm

In other news:

Why do characters in thriller/suspense movies have such poor self-preservation instincts? (E.g., Liv Tyler in The Strangers)

94 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:39pm
95 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:41pm

re: #62 albusteve

Newt will step forth and see if his disgressions are forgiven

I've always liked Newt. We'll see how things go in the next few years.

96 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:49pm

COUNTRY.

97 itellu3times  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:49pm

I liked some aspects of Tancredo, too, but this just shows again he was not ready for prime time. Was he one who raised his hand for Chris Mathews in the Republican debate, as not believing in evolution?

98 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:51pm

re: #82 Iron Fist

My girlfriend likes that Idea, but I don't see that happening, either. We need someone who isn't really on the scene now to come in and make a splash. Someone with fresh perspective, but also with firm grounding in the basic principles of small government, individual liberty, and self-determination that the Republican Party claims to believe in.

I don't see that person out there.

I don't either and time is not on our side...Newts a whiz and I hope he takes a shot...otherwise wtf?...the time is fast approaching to step up

99 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:03:52pm

re: #41 ArmyWife

yes.

I'm glad you could answer that, because my head 'sploded.

100 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:08pm

re: #56 freetoken

60% of the GOP polled believe in creationism, and not evolution.

Any leader, or wanna-be leader in this case, of the GOP thus will have to reflect (publicly, if not privately) the sentiments of the base.

That's a pretty inconvenient truth, to say the least. Is it necessarily a litmus-test issue with them? I mean, Obama is against gay marriage, but I'm sure most of the gay people voted for him anyway.

101 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:08pm

re: #56 freetoken

OR can state unequivocally that we fully defend the right to believe in creationism as the Constitution supports the freedom to do so. This does not mean, however, that it should be labeled "science" and taught in science class. Options for those who believe in creationism include religious based private schools or (egads) discussions on the topic at the dinner table. Additional options include learning about creationism in comparative religion courses.

102 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:17pm

re: #82 Iron Fist

Yes you do. She's currently administering Alaka.

103 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:32pm

re: #90 Conservative Moonbat

That doesn't mean he can't pander to the votes of stupid people.

Colorado voters in his district ARE NOT STUPID.

104 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:33pm

re: #92 MandyManners

I live in the ***ry.

Oh no you dih'int!

105 VioletTiger  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:40pm

re: #54 Charles

Matthews doesn't know enough to correct him.

106 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:41pm

re: #92 MandyManners

I live in the ***ry.

Belfry?

107 ryannon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:41pm

re: #92 MandyManners

I live in the ***ry.

The pantry?

108 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:04:54pm

re: #102 irongrampa

Crap. ALASKA.

109 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:05:06pm

Before it was cool.

110 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:05:10pm

re: #91 MandyManners

You have a point but, it goes way beyond that.

I know. You're right. I just want it to be simple and it never is.

111 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:05:18pm

re: #83 trendsurfer

Don't forget that McCain chose the future of the Party by choosing Palin as his running mate.

What?

112 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:05:58pm

re: #105 VioletTiger

Matthews doesn't know enough to correct him.

Matthews need a teleprompter? I'm sure the President could lend him one. You know, see if he likes it.

113 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:24pm

re: #94 Iron Fist

I didn't vote for McCain. I voted against Obama. It was the only rational course I could follow.

I think we're on the same line just saying different things. I would've voted for hiddenlizard is he was running against Obama. Just being honest

114 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:33pm

re: #82 Iron Fist

My girlfriend likes that Idea, but I don't see that happening, either. We need someone who isn't really on the scene now to come in and make a splash. Someone with fresh perspective, but also with firm grounding in the basic principles of small government, individual liberty, and self-determination that the Republican Party claims to believe in.

I don't see that person out there.

I don't see that person out there, either.
Sometimes, the right person shows up when it's least expected.
But the party seems to be in such disarray right now, I'm not sure that will happen.

115 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:37pm

If aliens landed and claimed to be our ancestors, most people, no matter what side of the ID debate, would be skeptical. Humans are ornery.

116 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:44pm

re: #111 MandyManners

What?

He's saying that Sarah Palin is the future of the party.

117 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:49pm

re: #37 nonic

Who created the alien? Moving the question to another planet doesn't change the question.

118 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:06:59pm

Chris Matthews seems to misunderstand the big-bang theory. It's not about creating matter from "nothing." Both are confused throughout this latest round of baseball science. Seems as though Matthews is using the science/evolution/creationism question as a lead in to ask about the politicians belief in global warming or AGW.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:07:37pm

re: #113 simonml

I think we're on the same line just saying different things. I would've voted for hiddenlizard is he was running against Obama. Just being honest

Are you totally sure that hiddenlizard isn't also Obama? On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog.

(My mother once saw that line, and since she loves dogs...well, at my house it took on a life of its own...)

120 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:07:41pm

re: #117 Mich-again

Who created the alien? Moving the question to another planet doesn't change the question.

What came first, the alien or the spaceship?

121 VioletTiger  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:07:52pm

re: #112 HelloDare

Matthews need a teleprompter? I'm sure the President could lend him one. You know, see if he likes it.

Oh noes. Awl teh telepromptors blong to teh TOTUS.

122 CynicalConservative  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:07:55pm

re: #113 simonml

I think we're on the same line just saying different things. I would've voted for hiddenlizard is he was running against Obama. Just being honest

I would vote for a random name out of the phone book before I vote for FCBBHO.

123 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:08:01pm

re: #65 MandyManners

I HOPE THAT EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW.


You forgot to add the TM symbol!

124 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:08:51pm

re: #121 VioletTiger

Oh noes. Awl teh telepromptors blong to teh TOTUS.

All your base are belong to us?

125 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:06pm
126 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:34pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

I don't see that person out there, either.
Sometimes, the right person shows up when it's least expected.
But the party seems to be in such disarray right now, I'm not sure that will happen.

I see very little maneuvering...nobody looking for a gap...the GOP is reeling and nobody wants to take the hit when it goes bad again...I hate that shit...principle and ethic are good enough but we've evolved into AmIdol politics

127 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:42pm

re: #111 MandyManners

What?

Probably Palin-hating. It's tres chic.

128 HoosierHoops  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:47pm

re: #120 NJDhockeyfan

What came first, the alien or the spaceship?

Aliens taste like chicken...
I promise never to do it again..Anybody need a used spaceship? I put it on eBay

129 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:50pm

re: #101 ArmyWife

In following the GOP local/state platforms developments, one gets the idea that the grassroots are increasingly not giving the leaders room to wiggle on this issue.

Indeed, this appears to be what is fueling Matthews' interest in this subject. By exploiting the fact that the GOP leaders are caught between a rock and hard place (... er... was that pun?) Matthews can generate interest in his TV program.

130 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:57pm

re: #120 NJDhockeyfan

What came first, the alien or the spaceship?

The spaceship. It landed in a field somewhere in South Jersey. Then after waiting 3 hours the alien came out of the spaceship.

//

131 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:09:59pm

re: #92 MandyManners

I live in the ***ry.

The Bowery?

132 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:10:22pm

re: #96 MandyManners

COUNTRY.

Does the water taste like wine?
WARNING: Do not watch this video with a full bladder.

133 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:10:31pm

re: #113 simonml

I think we're on the same line just saying different things. I would've voted for hiddenlizard is he was running against Obama. Just being honest

If you're trying to assuage hiddenlizard, I think you're too late. It looks like he scampered back to objectivismRULZ.com.

134 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:10:33pm

re: #54 Charles

It's just maddening to hear Tancredo claim there are no "transitional fossils."

This is a creationist talking point that's been around for at least 100 years, and it hasn't been true for a LONG time. Dozens of transitional fossils have been discovered, including some that are unmistakable proof for the theory of evolution.

Things that make you go "Aaarrggghhh..."

Every transitional fossil doesn't fill a gap, it creates two new gaps!

///

135 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:10:44pm

re: #115 jaunte

If aliens landed and claimed to be our ancestors, most people, no matter what side of the ID debate, would be skeptical. Humans are ornery.

NO WE'RE NOT. HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT?

136 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:11:05pm

re: #120 NJDhockeyfan

What came first, the alien or the spaceship?

Helen Thomas.

137 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:11:12pm

re: #115 jaunte

If aliens landed and claimed to be our ancestors, most people, no matter what side of the ID debate, would be skeptical. Humans are ornery.

Me, I'd hit 'em up for a loan.

138 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:11:22pm

Palin would have to be able to stage a monumental comeback to be of any significance...ain't gonna happen, no way

139 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:11:23pm

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

He's saying that Sarah Palin is the future of the party.

Okay.

140 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:11:39pm

re: #132 Spare O'Lake

Does the water taste like wine?
WARNING: Do not watch this video with a full bladder.



The whiskey is water; the water is wine.

141 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:11:42pm

re: #137 Occasional Reader

Me, I'd hit 'em up for a loan.

Space cash!

142 irongrampa  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:01pm

re: #125 Iron Fist


No, likely they won't give her any support, but I think she's got the chops AND popular support to overcome that. Just my opinion.

143 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:05pm

re: #123 NelsFree

You forgot to add the TM symbol!

I don't reckon I need one.

144 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:13pm
145 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:24pm

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

He's saying that Sarah Palin is the future of the party.

Oops, my bad.

146 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:29pm

re: #133 Last Mohican

If you're trying to assuage hiddenlizard, I think you're too late. It looks like he scampered back to objectivismRULZ.com.

I care not for hiddenlizard. He ridiculed my religious beliefs for no reason. Then he compared religion to Jenny McCarthy. Double ew

147 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:50pm

re: #141 Alouette

Space cash!

No, no, I didn't see any space cash. Did you see any space cash, Japan?

/

148 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:51pm

re: #124 simonml

All your base are belong to us?

You creationist cannot escape! Make good your time!

Ha, ha, ha!

149 nonic  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:53pm

re: #99 reine.de.tout

I'm glad you could answer that, because my head 'sploded.

I tried to phrase it so that I wasn't including any presumptions or biases.

It boils down to... is the anti-ID position (a) opposed to a religious explanation of the origins of matter and life as coming from some "god," but would accept as scientific an explanation that matter and life came from some alien life form? Or (b) is ANY possibility, whether involving a "god" or not, unacceptable if it involves intentional formation?

I don't know how to ask it more simply.

150 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:56pm

OT: SNP leader and de facto Milosevic supporter* Alex Salmond's popularity refuses to wane. Scotland's looking increasingly fucked. Ah'm thinking aboot gettin oot.

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

The SNP’s nationalist deficit is shown by its espousal of multi-cultural policies now seen as bankrupt in England because they put fragile communities in conflict with each other. Then there is the party’s enthusiasm for the European Union, an entity which despises nationalism in all its forms. Finally, Salmond’s government has cosied up to some of the most reactionary regimes in the Middle East.

Alex Salmond projects himself as the interpreter of the national will and it is undeniable that his style as the cheeky and subversive leader of a protest movement that finds itself in government delights at least one million Scots. They are fired up by his rhetoric and delight in the way he challenges arrangements and institutions, previously thought to be sacrosanct, something that plenty would perhaps love to do in their own lives but can’t.

Scots occasionally need to burst out of their emotional straitjackets and embrace a figure like Salmond. Not unnaturally, he is a devoted enthusiast of the cult of Robert Burns. It’s the 250th anniversary of the poet’s birth and oodles of public money is being used to remind the world of the fact.

A.S. Neill, the Forfar-born educationalist who founded the radical private school, Summerhill, summed up the impact of Burns on many Scots in the 1930s and arguably little has subsequently changed:

‘The Scots do not admire Burns because he wrote lovely lyrics; few of them are able to distinguish between a Burns song and a song by Harry Lauder. They admire Burns because he said and did all the things they have wanted to do themselves. Robert Burns is the national unconscious, the creativity that Calvinism dammed up at birth’.1

Of course, Salmond has no desire to make Scotland a freer, less deferential and more participatory place. Instead, he wants to be the chief entertainer, the chief sports fan, and the paramount ambassador for the country abroad etc. His desire is for Scotland to embrace his kind of manipulative populism while the nation remains a land of tele-tubbies. The population will watch the Braveheart spectacle and assemble in the public square when called upon to do so.

The SNP is heaving with solicitors as well as former public sector managers and figures from the media, and marketing. These types of political creatures are never happier when managing others and manipulating the political space. So it is not a renaissance of Scottish politics that is on the cards but an era of tightening political restrictions.

*Salmond attacked Nato's air strikes in Bosnia as "unpardonable folly", and interestingly, refuses to lend any support to the Kossovo independence movement - very unusual for a party that normally goes out of it's way to hook up with just about any nationalist movement it can find.

151 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:12:57pm

The Bowery:

152 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:13:16pm

re: #127 OldLineTexan

Probably Palin-hating. It's tres chic.

Beats me. I'm dealing with a child who delights in telling fart jokes.

153 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:13:17pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

I don't see that person out there, either.
Sometimes, the right person shows up when it's least expected.
But the party seems to be in such disarray right now, I'm not sure that will happen.

1980 was quite similar with Reagan seemingly coming out of nowhere and turning the lights of American Exceptionalism on again.

154 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:13:52pm

re: #137 Occasional Reader

Me, I'd hit 'em up for a loan.

What makes you think Planet X isn't printing cash as fast as we are?

155 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:13:53pm

re: #137 Occasional Reader

Me, I'd hit 'em up for a loan.

I'd say " Hey you guys need a hand?" and then give a round of applause. That gets em every time.

156 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:14:02pm

re: #147 OldLineTexan

No, no, I didn't see any space cash. Did you see any space cash, Japan?

/

I saw some. I handed back to the space cops.

//

157 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:14:10pm

re: #138 albusteve

Palin would have to be able to stage a monumental comeback to be of any significance...ain't gonna happen, no way

The same was said of Reagan after losing out to Ford in 1976.

158 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:14:20pm

re: #152 MandyManners

Beats me. I'm dealing with a child who delights in telling fart jokes.

He's male, dear. That particular stage doesn't end in most specimens, BTW.

159 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:14:33pm

re: #150 Jimmah

Brussels Journal was making some noise about that earlier today. Genocidal fascism stinks.

160 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:14:35pm

The illusion of superiority – this video explains so much!

161 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:14:40pm

re: #132 Spare O'Lake

Does the water taste like wine?
WARNING: Do not watch this video with a full bladder.

[Video]

That may be the finest video of two hippies pretending to play recorder that I have ever seen.

You don't see enough lip-synching recorder-playing videos nowadays.

162 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:14:56pm

re: #146 simonml

But he agreed with me that he was "off base". I think it was a typo - but kinda funny nonetheless.

163 Conservative Moonbat  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:15:22pm

re: #138 albusteve

Palin would have to be able to stage a monumental comeback to be of any significance...ain't gonna happen, no way

What I'm betting happens is that she and the Huckster split the SoCon vote leaving someone more moderate to get the majority, maybe Romeny.

164 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:15:43pm

re: #154 experiencedtraveller

What makes you think Planet X isn't printing cash as fast as we are?


Space cash only has the value you assign to it. Much like Chrysler.

165 nonic  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:15:45pm

re: #115 jaunte

If aliens landed and claimed to be our ancestors, most people, no matter what side of the ID debate, would be skeptical. Humans are ornery.


Well, skeptical or not, one hopes that the evaluation of their claim would rest on scientific EVIDENCE, not preferences or opinion.

166 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:15:53pm

re: #150 Jimmah

Alex Salmond sounds a bit like Obama.

167 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:16:11pm

the King...yup


168 pittrader1988  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:16:22pm

I don't believe in ID, but the way Mr. Hardball phrases the questions it's black or white.

To some people;they rationalize it so that there are several shades of gray.

Until someone actually proves ID scientifically using the scientific method with hard numbers and facts, it should not be taught in our schools. If some enterprising scientist can raise cash to study it, then they ought to try and prove it.

But like all good research, show the entire book, their hypothesis tests, and make sure the experiments can be replicated.

169 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:16:25pm

re: #157 FurryOldGuyJeans

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

170 HelloDare  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:16:39pm

re: #132 Spare O'Lake

Does the water taste like wine?
WARNING: Do not watch this video with a full bladder.

[Video]

Hugh Hewitt uses that song to introduce his show. Don't know if he considers it a theme song or not.

171 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:17:01pm

re: #144 Iron Fist

You forgot to tell him to piss up a rope. Tired tonight, dear?

:-)

No. Just judicious.

172 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:17:23pm

re: #164 OldLineTexan

Space cash only has the value you assign to it. Much like Chrysler.

Republican credits are no good out here. I need something more real.

~Watto

173 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:17:23pm

re: #157 FurryOldGuyJeans

The same was said of Reagan after losing out to Ford in 1976.

good point...but Palin is no Reagan

174 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:17:33pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

Don't you have something else to do tonight than comment here :) What time does that come on on the left coast?

175 Liberal Classic  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:18:04pm

Tom Tancredo:

There's Darwinian Evolution and there's Intelligent Design. That's the two conflicting points of view on this. And I suggest, Chris, when you look at this very carefully -- and believe me, I'm not a theologian, I'm not a scientist, I'm just a layman who looks at the evidence I have in front of me -- and when you do look at it carefully, it does seem to me that the one is equal to the other in terms of the number of people who support it, especially of their backgrounds, the research that's out there, it's not so clear cut.

You know, even Darwin said in order to prove evolution, his kind of evolution, you would need literally thousands, maybe millions of fossils that were transitional. We should be able to find them. But, of course, we haven't been able to find them. I certainly believe that evolution occurs within species naturally. Human beings have grown taller over time. That's certainly true. But, but crossing a species, there's no evidence of that. You have to make an assumption. And I'm saying that assuming that is just as tough as assuming there is intelligent design.

These are all Discovery Institute talking points. Listening to this makes me cringe.

Intelligent design is equivalent to evolutionary theory in terms of research? Do these people even know evolution is an applied science now?

No transitional fossils? Just recently we have articles on hobbits and seals with feet. Are we back to arguing the fixity of species?

I don't really watch MSNBC that much, so I don't have a strong opinion on Chris Matthews. He's certainly hammered Tancredo and Pence. If he's not that great of an interviewer, then it should be plainly obvious that any talking-head can make a candidate look like a complete fool using this issue. Just let them talk. That's it.

176 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:18:19pm

re: #168 pittrader1988

I don't believe in ID, but the way Mr. Hardball phrases the questions it's black or white.

To some people;they rationalize it so that there are several shades of gray.

Until someone actually proves ID scientifically using the scientific method with hard numbers and facts, it should not be taught in our schools. If some enterprising scientist can raise cash to study it, then they ought to try and prove it.

But like all good research, show the entire book, their hypothesis tests, and make sure the experiments can be replicated.

You sound like someone who just became aware of all this yesterday. Today?

177 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:18:35pm

One species does not evolve into another? Ugh.
Creationists keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

Here is where species ranks in the order of biological classification.

178 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:18:38pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

Nice to know your opinion once again.

179 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:18:57pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

Evidence? Please?

180 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:19:11pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

I have nothing better to do until 9pm left coast time than annoy conservatives.

181 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:19:35pm

re: #178 FurryOldGuyJeans

You're welcome.

182 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:19:42pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

KT has spoken, therefore it is Gospel.

How many vapid numbskulls do you know that get elected to Governor WITHOUT being related to some political royalty by birth or marriage?

183 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:20:35pm

re: #182 ArmyWife

KT has spoken, therefore it is Gospel.

Kirie Trout.

184 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:20:41pm

re: #182 ArmyWife

KT has spoken, therefore it is Gospel.

How many vapid numbskulls do you know that get elected to Governor WITHOUT being related to some political royalty by birth or marriage?

GEORGE W. BUSH!

oh, wait ...

/just tryin' to make teh Huffpoos and Koslings feel at home

185 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:20:46pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

I liked her. Thought she was a fiscal conservative but not beholden to the GOP. But that's just my opinion

186 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:20:46pm

re: #170 HelloDare

Hugh Hewitt uses that song to introduce his show. Don't know if he considers it a theme song or not.

It's actually a great song - but the presentation, YOIKS!

187 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:21:09pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

this from a guy going broke and no job with an advanced degree?...says you?

188 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:21:19pm

re: #12 researchok

Swine flu isn't the problem.

Apparently it is stupidity that is contagious.

In fact, there's something that would actually justify use of the term "pandemic".

189 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:21:52pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

I have nothing better to do until 9pm left coast time than annoy conservatives.

You cannot annoy me because I CHOOSE to not be annoyed by you. Certainly, you have the right to state your opinions. I shall demand you justify this one, please.

190 Bloodnok  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:21:52pm

Goodnight Lizards. Tomorrow I will be heading home to NH for a few days of R&R. I hope to check in on LGF via dial-up unless the rumors I've heard of the dog chewing through the computer cord are true.

Keep on truckin'.

191 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:22:01pm

re: #146 simonml

I care not for hiddenlizard. He ridiculed my religious beliefs for no reason. Then he compared religion to Jenny McCarthy. Double ew

Indeed, he ridiculed everyone's religious beliefs. Apparently he's fully aware of what everyone's religious beliefs are. Sort of ironic, coming from someone so insistent on claiming there's no such thing as am omniscient being.

Also, he once used the word "statist" in a comment. And he has a tendency to combine words using a slash. For example, "faith/religion" and "reason/science". Both are bad signs, in my experience.

192 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:22:08pm

re: #150 Jimmah

OT: SNP leader and de facto Milosevic supporter* Alex Salmond's popularity refuses to wane. Scotland's looking increasingly fucked. Ah'm thinking aboot gettin oot.

You're a Scot? Spent a few years there at Edinburg way back when.

193 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:22:45pm

re: #190 Bloodnok

Goodnight Lizards. Tomorrow I will be heading home to NH for a few days of R&R. I hope to check in on LGF via dial-up unless the rumors I've heard of the dog chewing through the computer cord are true.

Keep on truckin'.

Godspeed!

194 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:23:02pm

re: #190 Bloodnok

Keep on truckin'.

Truckin', or streakin'?

/yes, I remember the 70s, too

195 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:23:02pm

re: #122 CynicalConservative

I would vote for a random name out of the phone book before I vote for FCBBHO.

Funny. I feel the same way about Sarah Palin.

196 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:23:14pm

re: #191 Last Mohican

Either/orianism!

197 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:23:23pm

re: #173 albusteve

good point...but Palin is no Reagan

Never said she was. Still, public opinion of Reagan before he began his 1980 campaign in earnest was quite similar to what Sarah's is.

Does this mean I'm a Sarah booster? Hardly. Just pointing out that things can change.

198 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:23:34pm

re: #191 Last Mohican

Indeed, he ridiculed everyone's religious beliefs. Apparently he's fully aware of what everyone's religious beliefs are. Sort of ironic, coming from someone so insistent on claiming there's no such thing as am omniscient being.

Also, he once used the word "statist" in a comment. And he has a tendency to combine words using a slash. For example, "faith/religion" and "reason/science". Both are bad signs, in my experience.

He is stupid/troll

/maybe not thoug?

199 rain of lead  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:23:52pm

sheese,
just watched the vid and all I got out of that was a headfull of stupid

200 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:23:54pm

re: #192 Naso Tang

You're a Scot? Spent a few years there at Edinburg way back when.

I spent one year. And you forgot the "h", ya grrreat nobby!

201 capitalist piglet  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:24:33pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

Funny. I feel the same way about Sarah Palin.

But you did vote for Joe Biden. Go figure.

202 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:24:53pm

re: #187 albusteve

ouch

203 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:24:59pm

re: #201 capitalist piglet

But you did vote for Joe Biden. Go figure.

ROTFLMAO

204 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:25:05pm

I like Sarah Palin. I disagree with her views on science, but apparently that's not an uncommon issue with Republican politicians.

205 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:25:07pm

re: #191 Last Mohican

Indeed, he ridiculed everyone's religious beliefs. Apparently he's fully aware of what everyone's religious beliefs are. Sort of ironic, coming from someone so insistent on claiming there's no such thing as am omniscient being.

Also, he once used the word "statist" in a comment. And he has a tendency to combine words using a slash. For example, "faith/religion" and "reason/science". Both are bad signs, in my experience.

I thought the giveaway was the avatar.

206 nonic  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:25:22pm

re: #117 Mich-again

Who created the alien? Moving the question to another planet doesn't change the question.

No, because I'm only asking in the context of who or what "created" matter and life on this planet.

If aliens showed up and said, dude, we've been wondering, did you guys create us and our planet? Then we'd be right back where we started from, explanation-wise.

But if aliens showed up and claimed to have created matter and life on Earth -- and could show proof that they did -- would that be an answer as regards Earth that would be acceptable to the anti-ID position?

207 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:25:26pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

I have nothing better to do until 9pm left coast time than annoy conservatives.

Oh, I see, it comes on at 8:00pm here, 7:00pm your time. I thought you got it at 8:00pm pacific.

Well touch base on this tomorrow.

208 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:25:34pm
209 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:25:51pm

re: #201 capitalist piglet

But you did vote for Joe Biden. Go figure.

Perhaps it was a phone book with only Joe Biden's name in it.

One page.

//

210 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:25:56pm

re: #205 Alouette

I thought the giveaway was the avatar.

i am still waiting for the pearl i asked for perhaps the swine flu

211 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:26:08pm

re: #184 OldLineTexan

No, no, no. It's W's fault that Sarah Palin IS so popular and made so much sense. He and Rove concocted it in the basement at Crawford. It was a big effort to make the left froth at the mouth with rage at such a thought - a WOMAN Republican who was happily married with a successful career gotten by working hard. Oh the humanity of this evil, vicious, remarkably successful plan!

212 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:26:23pm

re: #191 Last Mohican

Also, he once used the word "statist" in a comment. And he has a tendency to combine words using a slash. For example, "faith/religion" and "reason/science". Both are bad signs, in my experience.

So is the juvenile hard-on for megahuckster Ayn Rand. And the pseudo-Nietzscheanism. And the belief (!) that altruism is evil.

213 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:26:37pm

I take it you west coast folks are waiting for LOST.

It was awesome tonight

214 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:27:16pm

Ironically, Tancredo's 'transitional fossils' argument seems to be straight from Ann Coulter whose advertisement flies above.

215 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:27:42pm
216 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:27:46pm

re: #197 FurryOldGuyJeans

Never said she was. Still, public opinion of Reagan before he began his 1980 campaign in earnest was quite similar to what Sarah's is.

Does this mean I'm a Sarah booster? Hardly. Just pointing out that things can change.

yes...change!...now conservatives are wearing that shoe

217 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:00pm

re: #211 ArmyWife

No, no, no. It's W's fault

what isnt

218 capitalist piglet  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:14pm

re: #208 Iron Fist

That was below the belt. Excellent :-)

I swear, I didn't mean it to be. I just honestly do not get how someone could reject Sarah Palin because she's supposedly not smart enough to serve as vice-president, then turn around and vote for a virtual circus clown.

219 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:17pm

re: #213 Shug

I take it you west coast folks are waiting for LOST.

It was awesome tonight

Ooooh, do tell! ;)

220 NelsFree  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:33pm

Indeed, it is time to go. Killgore, since you have NOT responded to my request to justify your opinion on Sarah Palin, you may content yourself to stew in your own juices until such time as we may rejoin a thread. I wish you all soft pillows and gamey buttocks in bed tomorrow morning. Adieu!

221 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:43pm

re: #202 Shug

ouch

don't lead with your chin

222 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:45pm

re: #201 capitalist piglet

But you did vote for Joe Biden. Go figure.

In no small part because of Palin.

223 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:48pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I would not be that harsh, but I agree she does not have a snow balls chance in hell of winning a general election without a lot of work . She'll pull big in a few Red states, but that would be it.

224 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:50pm

re: #218 capitalist piglet

I swear, I didn't mean it to be. I just honestly do not get how someone could reject Sarah Palin because she's supposedly not smart enough to serve as vice-president, then turn around and vote for a virtual circus clown.

I got teh bad newz ... its real

225 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:57pm

re: #213 Shug

I take it you west coast folks are waiting for LOST.

It was awesome tonight

I can't BELIEVE the whole thing turned out to be the dream of an autistic child! I totally didn't see that coming.

/

226 CynicalConservative  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:28:57pm

re: #218 capitalist piglet

I swear, I didn't mean it to be. I just honestly do not get how someone could reject Sarah Palin because she's supposedly not smart enough to serve as vice-president, then turn around and vote for a virtual circus clown.

Virtual?

227 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:29:01pm

re: #217 OldLineTexan

what isnt

Obamas' success ? Just a guess.

228 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:29:03pm

re: #182 ArmyWife

I originally had high hopes for her and I still think she could be a strong candidate with the right coaching. But she was such a dope in the headlights in the first Katie Couric interview. She couldn't name one single Newspaper she read. Not one. She acted like it was a trick question. And that followed the two weeks after McCain selected her as his running mate when she went all over the USA repeating the same exact talking points so many times over and over she sounded like a robot.

229 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:29:33pm

re: #187 albusteve

this from a guy going broke and no job with an advanced degree?...says you?


Yup. That's me.

230 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:29:40pm

re: #222 Cato the Elder

In no small part because of Palin.

when did you cut off your nose and is your face spited

/jk
/not really

231 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:29:43pm

re: #17 MandyManners

You're always so hard to read.

/
:)

232 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:29:52pm

re: #228 Mich-again

I originally had high hopes for her and I still think she could be a strong candidate with the right coaching. But she was such a dope in the headlights in the first Katie Couric interview. She couldn't name one single Newspaper she read. Not one. She acted like it was a trick question. And that followed the two weeks after McCain selected her as his running mate when she went all over the USA repeating the same exact talking points so many times over and over she sounded like a robot.

What Newspapers do you read? This is not a trick question.

233 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:30:01pm

re: #213 Shug

I take it you west coast folks are waiting for LOST.

It was awesome tonight

And how did you like that part about... :)

234 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:30:38pm

re: #225 Occasional Reader

I can't BELIEVE the whole thing turned out to be the dream of an autistic child! I totally didn't see that coming.

/

Sorry, Mike Savage said the kid was misdiagnosed. For this, he has been barred from Iran.

/

235 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:30:42pm

re: #223 avanti

I would not be that harsh, but I agree she does not have a snow balls chance in hell of winning a general election without a lot of work . She'll pull big in a few Red states, but that would be it.

how did BO do it?...alot of work?...hahaha!

236 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:31:21pm

re: #213 Shug

I take it you west coast folks are waiting for LOST.

It was awesome tonight

Wait . . . LOST is still on the air? I thought that went off the air 3 years ago or so.

237 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:32:01pm

re: #227 SasquatchOnSteroids

Obamas' success ? Just a guess.

six degrees of bushs fault ... there is a connection somewhere

238 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:32:01pm

re: #216 albusteve

yes...change!...now conservatives are wearing that shoe

O is a replay of Carter in so many ways it is really quite scary. An America hating Democrat president, elected in part because of reaction to a much hated Republican and a very publicly hated war.

239 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:32:02pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I wouldn't call her that, but I don't think any woman will get elected any time soon to the WH, so I agree she's not the future.

240 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:32:43pm

re: #223 avanti

I would not be that harsh, but I agree she does not have a snow balls chance in hell of winning a general election without a lot of work media help.

FIFY

This is impossible by the way

241 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:32:50pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

I would agree in the near term, but not because she isn't smart enough (definitely not experienced beyond local politics, though). Her forseeable problem is that her core supporters are largely the same people who are unwittingly dismantling the republican party... social conservatives.

242 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #166 NelsFree

Alex Salmond sounds a bit like Obama.

I'd actually prefer Obama to Salmond.

243 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:33:03pm

re: #225 Occasional Reader

I can't BELIEVE the whole thing turned out to be the dream of an autistic child! I totally didn't see that coming.

/

Er, that was funny. But no, the producers told us 4 years ago that the story wasn't a dream, the people were not in purgatory, it wasn't a drug or pysch experiment, they are not really dead or in hell, everything that happens, happens, characters that die are dead.

Confusing, isn't it.

244 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:33:24pm

re: #232 Alouette

Every day I visit the Detroit Free Press and der Spiegel and Iran Focus. At least once a week to Gulf Times and Hindustan Times. And all over Google news links a few times a day, All on the internet. I don't get any "Newspapers" delivered to the door.

245 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:33:33pm

re: #236 gmsc

Wait . . . LOST is still on the air? I thought that went off the air 3 years ago or so.

Are you fussing with me?

246 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:33:53pm

re: #233 Walter L. Newton

And how did you like that part about... :)

amazing stuff.

I have no idea how they are going to tie it all together in just one more season.

tangents upon tangents upon tangents.

247 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:33:57pm
248 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:33:58pm

re: #242 Jimmah

I'd actually prefer Obama to Salmond.

try the veal

249 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:34:04pm

re: #21 Archimedes

If only.

Yup. It seems like the GOP now thinks since the Dems went ape shit to the looney left with Michael Moore, Move On and Cindy Sheehan and ended up winning elections that now they have to go slobbering mad to the right to win.

I don't think so. I think with the lefties in full control they can afford to relax, be reasonable and measured and let the libs hang themselves.

250 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:34:25pm

re: #239 Sharmuta

I wouldn't call her that, but I don't think any woman will get elected any time soon to the WH, so I agree she's not the future.

Anti-Hillarite!

251 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:34:33pm

re: #238 FurryOldGuyJeans

O is a replay of Carter in so many ways it is really quite scary. An America hating Democrat president, elected in part because of reaction to a much hated Republican and a very publicly hated war.

if he keeps on his path, he will not be re-elected...replay alright, but we need a reasonable alternative and the shelves are bare

252 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:34:35pm

re: #215 Iron Fist

You forgot her greatest sin. She didn't euthanize her defective fetus.

I respected her for that, I'm pro choice, and she choose to keep the baby.

253 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:34:36pm

re: #206 nonic

No, because I'm only asking in the context of who or what "created" matter and life on this planet.

If aliens showed up and said, dude, we've been wondering, did you guys create us and our planet? Then we'd be right back where we started from, explanation-wise.

But if aliens showed up and claimed to have created matter and life on Earth -- and could show proof that they did -- would that be an answer as regards Earth that would be acceptable to the anti-ID position?

How would this affect Scientology? Unless it was Xenu that showed up.
Great to watch the scientologists squirm, though.

254 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:34:41pm

re: #236 gmsc

Dude, they blew up the hatch then they all traveled in time when Farady's mom was hot in the 50's and Linus shot the Irish dude and Sayid shot nine year old Linus. You're missing out.

255 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:35:10pm

re: #249 dwells38

I think with the lefties in full control they can afford to relax, be reasonable and measured and let the libs hang themselves.

I sure hope they will do so.

256 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:35:26pm

re: #200 Occasional Reader

I spent one year. And you forgot the "h", ya grrreat nobby!

I'm typing on a netbook. Gimme a break. :)

257 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:35:38pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Dude, they blew up the hatch then they all traveled in time when Farady's mom was hot in the 50's and Linus shot the Irish dude and Sayid shot nine year old Linus. You're missing out.

and Hugo stays fat stranded on a f-ing island

258 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:35:39pm

re: #241 Danny

I would agree in the near term, but not because she isn't smart enough (definitely not experienced beyond local politics, though). Her forseeable problem is that her core supporters are largely the same people who are unwittingly dismantling the republican party... social conservatives.

I am getting a cease and desist order requiring you to quit reading my mind IMMEDIATELY! ;)

259 Kronocide  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:35:48pm

It's a Fallacyorama.

260 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:35:50pm

re: #246 Shug

amazing stuff. I have no idea how they are going to tie it all together in just one more season. tangents upon tangents upon tangents.

And you have probably noticed, that a lot of plot points this season were tie back to odd little things from the last 4 years, things that they set up years ago, and knew that those things would tie into the story.

I have said it again and again here, the producers have said they are not making up the plot arcs as they go along, and this season has been their proof of that.

Very clever show.

261 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:03pm

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

262 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:05pm

RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!

263 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:30pm

re: #257 Shug

Hugo rules.

264 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:39pm

re: #251 albusteve

if he keeps on his path, he will not be re-elected...replay alright, but we need a reasonable alternative and the shelves are bare

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this sounds a lot like 1977.

265 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:41pm

re: #192 Naso Tang

You're a Scot? Spent a few years there at Edinburg way back when.

Edinburgh is a lovely city. Did you ever go into the Worlds End pub? They do great haggis and neeps. (Although I'm not so much a fan of neeps)

266 capitalist piglet  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:41pm

re: #247 Iron Fist

I was thoroughly approving. Always hit below the belt if you can. So-called "tough" guys will fold up like rag dolls if you smack their nuts hard. It's even better if you can rupture a testicle, but that isn't as easy as it might sound.

ROTFL! OUCH.

267 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:44pm

Oodgay Ightnay Izardslay.

268 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:46pm

methinks the lady doth protest too much

269 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:36:50pm

re: #228 Mich-again

Because the brain trust of Team McCain failed her. She was coached to behave a certain way, to not come off as so "folksy" or say anything that could be polarizing. That "folksy" is what spoke to regular Americans, and we desperately wanted the counter to Obama, we wanted to polarize him. When she told McCain to FOAD, she became herself again toward the end, when her ratings went up and she cleaned Biden's clock during their debate. It was too late, though, and McCain was running the most pathetic campaign in the history of US politics.

The RNC failed her, too. They never launched a counter campaign to the left's ridiculous attacks. They were running a gentleman's campaign - by themselves. As a result people honestly think Sarah said she could see Russia from her home!

270 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:02pm

re: #256 Naso Tang

I'm typing on a netbook. Gimme a break. :)

Ever go to a pub called "The Malt Shovel"?

271 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:10pm

re: #257 Shug

and Hugo stays fat stranded on a f-ing island

Well yea, he was in charge of the food, and still is.

272 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:15pm

re: #262 MandyManners

Feel better now?

[verb, adjective, adverb]

273 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:22pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

for the record I don't hate you

274 MandyManners  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:34pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

It's NOT ABOUT YOU.

275 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:38pm

re: #244 Mich-again

Every day I visit the Detroit Free Press and der Spiegel and Iran Focus. At least once a week to Gulf Times and Hindustan Times. And all over Google news links a few times a day, All on the internet. I don't get any "Newspapers" delivered to the door.

I listen to the radio. I visit YNet, Jerusalem Post, and Arutz 7 every day, also the AP and Reuters news feeds on Yahoo. Once in a while I will check out the NY Times or the LA Times, usually for stuff I can put on my blog. The last time I read a dead tree paper was at my parents' house, they read the LA times religiously. I mean that literally.

276 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:43pm

re: #260 Walter L. Newton

BTW, abc.com does not have all of Season 5, only the most recent few.

/pout

277 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:37:46pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

Nice you have expressed YOUR opinion, once again. Now let others have the same?

278 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:38:01pm

re: #232 Alouette

I don't read any. They are a waste of time.

(the right answer, IMO)

279 capitalist piglet  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:38:04pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

I don't hate you, Killgore. And whatever Sarah Palin is, at least she isn't a pathological liar with a Walter Mitty complex.

280 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:38:05pm
281 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:38:19pm

re: #236 gmsc

Wait . . . LOST is still on the air? I thought that went off the air 3 years ago or so.

Christ! Where have you been? Lucky for you you can have 3 years of catchup between threads, and be no wiser than when you left. But it's fun, kind of like Sudoku.

282 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:38:46pm

re: #257 Shug

and Hugo stays fat stranded on a f-ing island

That in itself is a complete circle. The first task that Hugo preformed after the plane crash was to start handing out food to the passengers, and what happened this season after he flip back to 1974, he was working in the Dharma kitchen.

Namaste.

283 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:39:23pm

re: #212 Cato the Elder

So is the juvenile hard-on for megahuckster Ayn Rand. And the pseudo-Nietzscheanism. And the belief (!) that altruism is evil.

I have to admit, I don't know much about Ayn Rand. Except that back in college, a lot of kids were really into her, and made t-shirts and extracurricular organizations and stuff about her. Then later they got into other stuff, like Allman Brothers bootlegs.

But I just did a little googling. According to the Ayn Rand Lexicon, she didn't think altruism was evil exactly, she just thought it was a wrong-headed principle that stems from the incorrect assumption that the self is evil.

All this is based on her definition of altruism, which is very different from the usual definition:

What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value. Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible... Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime.
284 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:39:37pm

re: #235 albusteve

how did BO do it?...alot of work?...hahaha!

Well, yes. His campaign ran circles around McCain's in every area. Palin had some of the BHO rock style appeal, but it was limited to the base. BHO came up with the hope and change thing and rode it until the end, the GOP never found a consistent message.

285 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:39:40pm

re: #279 capitalist piglet

I don't hate you, Killgore. And whatever Sarah Palin is, at least she isn't a pathological liar with a Walter Mitty complex.

Hey! Joe Biden singlehandedly drove Hizballah out of Lebanon, I'll have you know. Well, okay, not singlehandedly. He teamed up with the French.

286 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:39:43pm

re: #264 FurryOldGuyJeans

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this sounds a lot like 1977.

Lost again?

287 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:39:51pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

And for the record, I don't HATE you KT, I just find your opinion to be contrary to mine.

288 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:40:34pm

you all playa h8rs

289 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:40:45pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Hey! Joe Biden singlehandedly drove Hizballah out of Lebanon, I'll have you know. Well, okay, not singlehandedly. He teamed up with the French.

Then they all went to Katie's. Lunch on me, boys !

290 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:04pm

re: #286 Naso Tang

Lost again?

No, but I hear a lot of fatalism being expressed here, and I'm supposed to be the pessimist!

291 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:15pm

re: #276 OldLineTexan

BTW, abc.com does not have all of Season 5, only the most recent few.

/pout

Really. I have to check that out.

292 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:19pm

re: #284 avanti

Well, yes. His campaign ran circles around McCain's in every area. Palin had some of the BHO rock style appeal, but it was limited to the base. BHO came up with the hope and change thing and rode it until the end, the GOP never found a consistent message.

BO rode in on the back of the MSM...don't try and dice it up to fit your starstruck paradigm...go wash your face

293 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:33pm

re: #289 SasquatchOnSteroids

I'll take dijon on my burger, please.

294 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:37pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout


Dear Mr. Trout,

you are cordially invited to take a long walk off a short pier.

Sincerely,

Dark_Falcon

295 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:43pm

re: #283 Last Mohican

What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value. Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible... Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime.

I think Hillel put it more succinctly:

If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am only for myself, what am I?
And if [I do not act] now, then when?

296 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:46pm

re: #215 Iron Fist

You forgot her greatest sin. She didn't euthanize her defective fetus.

Not this again.

I saw a hell of a lot of reasons why people hated Sarah Palin, ranging from her son supposedly being her secret grandson, to the fact that she wore clothes that cost money, to her supposedly constant use of racist anti-Eskimo epithets (even though her husband is Eskimo). But I never saw anyone attack her for not having an abortion.

297 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:41:50pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.


What do you have to do with Sarah Palin?

298 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:42:20pm

re: #282 Walter L. Newton

That in itself is a complete circle. The first task that Hugo preformed after the plane crash was to start handing out food to the passengers, and what happened this season after he flip back to 1974, he was working in the Dharma kitchen.

Namaste.

I keep thinking that the whole theme is a time loop and that a few people have come to realize that, but don't know how to break it.

299 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:42:33pm

re: #294 Dark_Falcon

Dear Mr. Trout,

you are cordially invited to take a long walk off a short pier.

Sincerely,

Dark_Falcon

(can he swim?, hold on here a second)

300 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:42:43pm

re: #284 avanti

Well, yes. His campaign ran circles around McCain's in every area. Palin had some of the BHO rock style appeal, but it was limited to the base. BHO came up with the hope and change thing and rode it until the end, the GOP never found a consistent message.

I wish I could argue with that, but I can't.

301 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:42:45pm

re: #160 gmsc

The illusion of superiority – this video explains so much!

[Video]

Interesting. He sounds quite a bit like the narrator of this video.

And no, not all Brits sound the same to me.

302 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:42:51pm

re: #288 OldLineTexan

you all playa h8rs

Que? A mi me encanta la playa... de que mierda estas hablando, pinche gringo.

303 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:42:53pm

re: #290 FurryOldGuyJeans

No, but I hear a lot of fatalism being expressed here, and I'm supposed to be the pessimist!

I meant the TV show

:D

304 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:43:23pm

re: #283 Last Mohican

According to the Ayn Rand Lexicon, she didn't think altruism was evil exactly, she just thought it was a wrong-headed principle that stems from the incorrect assumption that the self is evil.

I know that.

It's twats like Hiddenlizard that extrapolate it to make "altruism" a dirty word.

And I use the word twat in the British sense.

305 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:43:31pm

re: #296 Last Mohican

Not this again.

I saw a hell of a lot of reasons why people hated Sarah Palin, ranging from her son supposedly being her secret grandson, to the fact that she wore clothes that cost money, to her supposedly constant use of racist anti-Eskimo epithets (even though her husband is Eskimo). But I never saw anyone attack her for not having an abortion.

Anne France.

306 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:43:50pm

re: #297 Shug

What do you have to do with Sarah Palin?

it's a fad...he digs a good fad

307 funky chicken  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:43:55pm

What psychological type must a person have to be willing to go on national TV to blather on about something that they don't understand? It would be like my going on Hardball to talk about bicycling even though I haven't ridden a bike for 20 years.

I would be too embarrassed to sit there and blow smoke ... but politicians and "journalists" seem all to willing to do it over and over.

308 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:43:56pm

re: #296 Last Mohican

Not this again.

I saw a hell of a lot of reasons why people hated Sarah Palin, ranging from her son supposedly being her secret grandson, to the fact that she wore clothes that cost money, to her supposedly constant use of racist anti-Eskimo epithets (even though her husband is Eskimo). But I never saw anyone attack her for not having an abortion.

I saw her attacked for being a "bad mother", i.e. campaigning instead of taking care of her special needs infant. By leftists who sneer at "stay-at-home moms".

Same shit, different sack.

309 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:44:09pm

re: #293 ArmyWife

I'll take dijon on my burger, please.

Well, I'd get them to make 1 for ya, but they've been out for a while now.
psssttt. - don't tell joe

310 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:44:29pm

OT - (no, not LOST related)

US public at risk from complacency over flu -CDC

Ok, what is it, are we all going to die, not die, get a little sick, a lot sick, a pandemic, a small outbreak. Shit, there hasn't been a day that has gone by in the last three weeks that we don't get a NEW opinion on this Flu of the Americas (TM - WLN - 2009).

Experts, bullshit. I'll tell you what, don't sneeze on me and I won't sneeze on you.

311 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:44:31pm

re: #302 Occasional Reader

Que? A mi me encanta la playa... de que mierda estas hablando, pinche gringo.

sunuva beach

312 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:44:53pm

AKK! Its almost midnight! I must go to bed, I've got money to make at an evil, chemical making corporation tomorrow! Unions to piss off! Managers to set straight!

Good night, fair friends!

313 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:44:56pm

re: #303 Naso Tang

I meant the TV show

:D

Oh, ooops.

I have to admit I have NEVER seen the show, ever. Waiting for the first season on DVD to be held at my local library so I can stop being a Lost virgin.

314 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:44:57pm

re: #284 avanti

Well, yes. His campaign ran circles around McCain's in every area. Palin had some of the BHO rock style appeal, but it was limited to the base. BHO came up with the hope and change thing and rode it until the end, the GOP never found a consistent message.

That's also the problem. The MSM convinced us we wanted something different, not matter what that different was. Thus the GOP HAD to come up with Palin, even if she was the secret weapon waiting to be revealed.

A little far flung, I know. But its an exciting theory

315 Conservative Moonbat  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:45:29pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

I didn't vote for Obama so much as I voted against Palin. I won't know if it was the right thing to until 2012 rolls around and we see if McCain is still alive or not. I just couldn't risk it. She's as dumb as a doorknob and is a dominionist to boot. Her as president scares the hell out of me.

316 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:45:37pm

Another lovely story about Tom Tancredo: Congressman addresses hate group:

COLUMBIA, S.C. %P% Sept. 11, 2006 -- For a college football game day, the South Carolina State Museum in downtown Columbia was a busy place on the afternoon of Saturday, Sept. 9.

On the ground floor, a United States Army brass band commemorated the victims of 9/11. One level up, not far from the museum's permanent Confederate Army exhibit, the state chapter of the League of the South (LOS), a neo-Confederate hate group, hosted a barbeque in honor of Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo, head of the House Immigration Reform Caucus. Proceeds from the $15 per-plate fundraiser went to Americans Have Had Enough!, a South Carolina-based non-profit coalition for which Tancredo serves as honorary chairman.

While Tancredo's hard-line "deport 'em all" stance on immigration has made him a favorite politician of white supremacists, this marked the first time the congressman has appeared at a hate group event.

Dressed casually in a yellow t-shirt, Tancredo addressed the standing-room audience of 200-250 from behind a podium draped in a Confederate battle flag. To the congressman's right, a portrait of Robert E. Lee peered out at the crowd of Minutemen activists, local politicians, and red-shirted members of LOS and the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The Confederate trappings of the event found a mismatch in Tancredo's standard nativist polemic, which stayed clear of references to Southern heritage or direct plaudits for the LOS, a Southern white nationalist organization dedicated to "Southern independence, complete, full, and total."

317 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:45:45pm

re: #304 Cato the Elder

I know that.

It's twats like Hiddenlizard that extrapolate it to make "altruism" a dirty word.

And I use the word twat in the British sense.

hiddenlizard got me a top ten comment i owe it a beer

318 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:03pm

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

ah-CHOO!

*sniff*

319 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:06pm

re: #298 Naso Tang

I keep thinking that the whole theme is a time loop and that a few people have come to realize that, but don't know how to break it.

I'll take one step further, multiple time lines. That's why the characters have seen people who have actually died, because they are being seen in another time line, another loop.

The whispers?

320 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:09pm
321 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:14pm

funky soul...Neville Bros

322 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:14pm

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

This is the BRIGHTEST administration EVAH. Isn't it obvious?

323 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:23pm

re: #248 OldLineTexan

try the veal

Or maybe some Sturgeon. Presenting (believe it or not) our deputy leader, Nicola Sturgeon:

Image: 2802.jpg

Image: nicolasturgeon1.jpg

324 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:23pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty convinced that Palin is a vapid numbskull. She has very little chance of a national political career.

I don't think she is a vapid numbskull, but I share the opinion that her chances of going national are pretty slim. I simply do not think she is the GOP's version of "The One" that some people make her out to be.

325 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:26pm

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

I forgot the link...
[Link: www.alertnet.org...]

326 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:31pm

re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am getting a cease and desist order requiring you to quit reading my mind IMMEDIATELY! ;)

Wow, didn't realize I could do that. Well then, is this your naked woman thought, or mine?

327 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:46:50pm

re: #315 Conservative Moonbat

I didn't vote for Obama so much as I voted against Palin. I won't know if it was the right thing to until 2012 rolls around and we see if McCain is still alive or not. I just couldn't risk it. She's as dumb as a doorknob and is a dominionist to boot. Her as president scares the hell out of me.

No, you voted for Biden. He's SMART.

328 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:08pm

re: #305 Alouette

Anne France.

Damn, you're right. I hadn't remember that part of Anne France's cavalcade of idiocy. Just to underscore my wrongness, I'll quote the relevant part:

...this woman [Sarah Palin], who thought it wise to bring a fifth child into the world who has Down's Syndrome. There are four other children already born who need the time, attention and resources of their two parents, and you are not going to tell me they will not suffer with the arrival of a fifth sibling who is going to take away considerable attention and time from them

329 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:08pm

re: #316 Charles

Another lovely story about Tom Tancredo: Congressman addresses hate group:

The purge of idiotarianism within the GOP continues apace. Good.

330 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:13pm

re: #270 Occasional Reader

Ever go to a pub called "The Malt Shovel"?

Most probably, but I could seldom remember the day after, let alone 40 odd years later. I do think the beers were a shilling, or was it six pence...?

And I remember a lot of sawdust on the floor. All the better to clean up after last call.

331 Mich-again  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:21pm

re: #239 Sharmuta

I wouldn't call her that, but I don't think any woman will get elected any time soon to the WH, so I agree she's not the future.

I think she could be the first woman to get elected President. But she needs to ditch the Paleocons. Thats a dead-end road.

332 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:31pm

ID = Intelligent Design ... or does it?

It could mean ...

Idiotic Drivel

333 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:38pm

re: #206 nonic

No, because I'm only asking in the context of who or what "created" matter and life on this planet.

If aliens showed up and said, dude, we've been wondering, did you guys create us and our planet? Then we'd be right back where we started from, explanation-wise.

But if aliens showed up and claimed to have created matter and life on Earth -- and could show proof that they did -- would that be an answer as regards Earth that would be acceptable to the anti-ID position?

Now THAT sounds like a good Sci Fi plot. I think the next question would be:
"Mr Superbeing, since you solved our little puzzle here what clues have you to your own origins?" Or "Can we have the cheat codes so we can walk through walls and live thru getting killed?"

334 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:52pm

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

OT - (no, not LOST related)

US public at risk from complacency over flu -CDC

Ok, what is it, are we all going to die, not die, get a little sick, a lot sick, a pandemic, a small outbreak. Shit, there hasn't been a day that has gone by in the last three weeks that we don't get a NEW opinion on this Flu of the Americas (TM - WLN - 2009).

Experts, bullshit. I'll tell you what, don't sneeze on me and I won't sneeze on you.

This flu is most likely exactly as contagious as every other flu. The problem is Americans don't get upset unless something is new and exciting. The BIG problem is that the flu comes around every year, thus no one gets excited about it.

335 ArmyWife  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:47:55pm

re: #315 Conservative Moonbat

dominionist? What rock did you crawl out from under? I gotta go to bed, someone show this one the light, please. Dominionist. As my favorite MandyM would say, for fuck's sake.

336 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:48:25pm

re: #296 Last Mohican

Not this again.

I saw a hell of a lot of reasons why people hated Sarah Palin, ranging from her son supposedly being her secret grandson, to the fact that she wore clothes that cost money, to her supposedly constant use of racist anti-Eskimo epithets (even though her husband is Eskimo). But I never saw anyone attack her for not having an abortion.

Palin's Down syndrome child and the right to abortion

Like many, I am troubled by the implications of Alaska governor and Republican Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin's decision to knowingly give birth to a child disabled with Down syndrome. Given that Palin's decision is being celebrated in some quarters, it is crucial to reaffirm the morality of aborting a fetus diagnosed with Down syndrome (or by extension, any unborn fetus)—a freedom that anti-abortion advocates seek to deny.

A parent has a moral obligation to provide for his or her children until these children are equipped to provide for themselves. Because a person afflicted with Down syndrome is only capable of being marginally productive (if at all) and requires constant care and supervision, unless a parent enjoys the wealth to provide for the lifetime of assistance that their child will require, they are essentially stranding the cost of their child's life upon others.

337 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:48:44pm

re: #313 FurryOldGuyJeans

Oh, ooops.

I have to admit I have NEVER seen the show, ever. Waiting for the first season on DVD to be held at my local library so I can stop being a Lost virgin.

You can get them on Hulu or at the TV website.

338 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:48:49pm

re: #326 Danny

Wow, didn't realize I could do that. Well then, is this your naked woman thought, or mine?

OUT! ;)

339 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:49:30pm

re: #314 simonml

That's also the problem. The MSM convinced us we wanted something different, not matter what that different was. Thus the GOP HAD to come up with Palin, even if she was the secret weapon waiting to be revealed.

A little far flung, I know. But its an exciting theory

I think you are close. McCain needed a game changer, someone to get him some excitement, and she did it. She was pretty popular until the press interviews, then the left mocked her, and that made the base rally around no matter what.

340 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:49:42pm

re: #316 Charles

Another lovely story about Tom Tancredo: Congressman addresses hate group:

Wow!

341 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:49:44pm

re: #316 Charles

Another lovely story about Tom Tancredo: Congressman addresses hate group:

Wow. What a creep. On 9/11 no less

342 capitalist piglet  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:49:59pm

re: #327 OldLineTexan

No, you voted for Biden. He's SMART.

There just HAS to be some sexism going on there. I'm sorry, but that is the only explanation that makes any sense to me. How Joe Biden - a man who barely demonstrates a connection to reality - is preferable to Sarah Palin, I simply cannot understand.

343 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:50:12pm

re: #336 jcm

"unless a parent enjoys the wealth to provide for the lifetime of assistance that their child will require, they are essentially stranding the cost of their child's life upon others."


Now that's some prime nasty.

344 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:50:31pm

Joseph Farah is spewing some bad batshit conspiracy craziness over at Whirled Nuts Daily, about Michael Savage being banned from the U.S.

No I'm not linking to that craphole.

345 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:50:46pm

re: #316 Charles

Looks pretty bad, but I'm not sure that SPLC is an objective source of information.

346 Timbre  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:51:01pm

O/T Even the conservatives are becoming like the liberals. My ballot from the Heritage Foundation on "New Government Spending Priorities" is labeled": "Sealed Ballot Enclosed. Signature Required. Unvoted Ballot Must Be Returned."

Or what, Dr. Feulner? You gonna' bring the Heritage Paddy Wagon down to Texas and throw me in the pincher?

Must, must , must, must...

NOT!

347 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:51:09pm

re: #337 Naso Tang

You can get them on Hulu or at the TV website.

Not me. I prefer DVD since the set seems crammed full of commentary and extras. I'm a extras junkie. ;)

Besides, streaming video ALWAYS stops and starts on my PC and gives me a major migraine.

348 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:51:23pm

re: #340 Sharmuta

Wow!

That's really old news. This had already made it's rounds in the Denver Colorado area. His basic answer, he didn't know all the facts about the group.

349 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:51:43pm

Aaron Neville
Bonnie Raitt
Gregg Alman

350 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:51:49pm

re: #344 Alouette

Savage is basking in publicity that money can't buy; he has talk fodder for years.

351 funky chicken  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:52:17pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

They're quoting Neil Boortz as some kind of health expert now? Oh dear.

352 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:52:31pm

re: #342 capitalist piglet

There just HAS to be some sexism going on there. I'm sorry, but that is the only explanation that makes any sense to me. How Joe Biden - a man who barely demonstrates a connection to reality - is preferable to Sarah Palin, I simply cannot understand.

I wasn't a big fan of Palin, although I did vote for McCain. Some of my Democrat friends (at least the ones who aren't nuts) told me that they'd have at least considered voting for McCain if not for Palin being on the ticket.

353 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:52:35pm

re: #336 jcm

Yes, pricks like this want the right to reach into wombs and play the God they don't believe in. I will take my Downs grandson over this turd's purse chihuahua any day of the week. Maybe turd could come over to my daughter's house and see if he lives through the first ten minutes of his rant.

354 Lynn B.  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:52:40pm

Sorry to return to topic, but CM did not give Tancredo a hard time. He went off on a soliloquy and seemed to forget he even had a guest there for a while and then, since he clearly wasn't quite sure whether Tancredo was agreeing with him or running circles around him, he invited him to run for President again in 2012.

I think Tom had done his ID-101 homework, was determined not to get Penced, had memorized his Disco talking points and caught CM completely off guard. Turnabout and all that. They both came off as morons.

/you'd think MSNBC would self-censor some of this embarrassing sh*t.

355 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:52:45pm

re: #206 nonic

No, because I'm only asking in the context of who or what "created" matter and life on this planet.

Perhaps I'm being pedantic here, but it wasn't the question about creating life that I wanted to ask you; what do you mean by "creating matter on this planet"?

356 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:52:50pm

re: #347 FurryOldGuyJeans

Not me. I prefer DVD since the set seems crammed full of commentary and extras. I'm a extras junkie. ;)

Besides, streaming video ALWAYS stops and starts on my PC and gives me a major migraine.

Well, yea, Win 98se would tend to do that. I have a Win 98se tower as a backup, and it works fine for general browsing, but not heavy media stuff.

357 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:52:54pm

re: #317 OldLineTexan

hiddenlizard got me a top ten comment i owe it a beer

Your upding to punctation ratio was astounding! haha. Just giving you a little crap.

358 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:53:24pm

re: #332 _RememberTonyC

ID = Intelligent Design ... or does it?

It could mean ...

Idiotic Drivel

Upding!

359 meh130  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:53:58pm

Am I the only one who noticed Chrissy sets up multiple strawman arguments in this segment? This isn't intelligent discussion. This is "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

Chrissy gives this nuanced, God created the world through evolution bit, but offers no such nuance for AGW (i.e., percentage of warming due to man, and percentage due to natural cycles).

Chrissy is devoid of honest intellectual and intelligent commentary.

I for one am about tired of pinheads pushing absolutist arguments. I don't think absolutism and gotcha arguments are intelligent or intellectual discourse.

Again, for about the fourth time. Go to http://www.michaelcrichton.com/. Read his speeches. They are examples of critical thinking, something which is all too rare today. Crichton rails against absolutist arguments and linear thinking.

Full disclosure: I believe evolution is a biological process, not a theology.

360 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:54:00pm

re: #247 Iron Fist

If you and I ever go out drinking, I'm wearing a cup.
/

361 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:54:44pm

re: #347 FurryOldGuyJeans

Not me. I prefer DVD since the set seems crammed full of commentary and extras. I'm a extras junkie. ;)

Besides, streaming video ALWAYS stops and starts on my PC and gives me a major migraine.

Ahh, a 1mps connection. I sympathize.

362 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:54:56pm

Good night.

363 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:55:07pm

re: #316 Charles

Another lovely story about Tom Tancredo: Congressman addresses hate group:

That was from 2006, and I was hoping that the SPLS had somehow stretched the truth with that story. But then I followed a few links, and found another example of Tancredo's associating himself with the South Carolina League of the South, from their own web site:

Calling All Red Shirts

Congressman Tom Tancredo (R-Colorado) will be our guest at the Visa Room of the SC State Museum at 11:00 AM, Saturday September 9th. Barbecue will be furnished by Maurice Bessinger's Piggy Park. The cost per plate will be approximately $20.00 with proceeds going to Congressman Tancredo's 501 (c) (4) organisation, "America has had enough".

As you are aware, Congressman Tancredo has led the fight against illegal immigration in Congress. Join us at the State museum for two hours of vital information, fellowship, and good food. The cost of the ticket will cover admission into the museum.

"Saturday September 9" would put that event in 2008.

364 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:55:13pm

re: #353 OldLineTexan

Yes, pricks like this want the right to reach into wombs and play the God they don't believe in. I will take my Downs grandson over this turd's purse chihuahua any day of the week. Maybe turd could come over to my daughter's house and see if he lives through the first ten minutes of his rant.

I wouldn't want to take bets on the jackasses survival. That article sounds like something used to justify Hitler's euthanasia program.

365 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:55:15pm

re: #358 Dark_Falcon

Upding!


Thanks DF ... I believe in karma in all aspects of my life

366 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:55:52pm

re: #330 Naso Tang

Most probably, but I could seldom remember the day after, let alone 40 odd years later. I do think the beers were a shilling, or was it six pence...?

And I remember a lot of sawdust on the floor. All the better to clean up after last call.

You ignored my pub question. Step ootside ya baistart!

;-)

367 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:56:17pm

re: #359 meh130

Who's Chrissy?

368 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:56:20pm

re: #336 jcm

The last paragraph :

That is, we need the mentally retarded to teach us how to better sacrifice our lives and divest ourselves of our self-interested ways more than they need us to care for them. At Noodlefood, Diana Hsieh condemns such a stand as "the worship of retardation." Given that Palin had complete foreknowledge of her child's severe disability yet nevertheless chose to have it, it is hard not to see her choice as anything less.

wow.

369 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:57:09pm

re: #284 avanti

O was able to "stay on message" with a lot less effort than McCain had to expend for the simple fact that O had the DNC propaganda arm doing a majority of the heavy lifting and work for him.

370 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:57:12pm

re: #364 Dark_Falcon

I wouldn't want to take bets on the jackasses survival. That article sounds like something used to justify Hitler's euthanasia program.

She's a dancer; kicks straight up left or right. But I believe my grandson could roll over this turd; possibly gnaw him a bit with that one, late. beleaguered tooth.

371 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:57:18pm

re: #317 OldLineTexan

hiddenlizard got me a top ten comment i owe it a beer

Loved that comment. Had a certain stream-of-consciousness, Joycean ring to it. (My highest compliment.)

372 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:57:28pm

re: #363 Last Mohican

Oops, I meant SPLC, not SPLS.

373 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:57:45pm

re: #367 Naso Tang

Who's Chrissy?

Mr. Leg Tingle.

/

374 funky chicken  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:57:52pm

re: #352 _RememberTonyC

I wasn't a big fan of Palin, although I did vote for McCain. Some of my Democrat friends (at least the ones who aren't nuts) told me that they'd have at least considered voting for McCain if not for Palin being on the ticket.

McCain chose her because the "true conservative" wing was screaming at him that he HAD to choose a religious conservative pro-lifer. There were better choices out there, but some of them may have declined the invitation.

The sad thing is that the "true conservatives" still give McCain no gratitude for bringing Palin forward into national prominence. It's amazing to see folks on blogs wax poetic about how wonderful Palin is and then in the next sentence rail against "McAmnesty" or even worse nicknames.

375 ShanghaiEd  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:58:06pm

re: #269 ArmyWife

The "I can see Russia from my house" line has always seemed a red herring to me. I knew that was a joke from Saturday Night Live, but what Palin actually said was "You can see Russia from Alaska"...as a response to a question about her experience with foreign policy(?!). How is her real response any less ridiculous than the fake one?

376 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:58:24pm

daylight will come
no matter how long the night...

377 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:58:27pm

re: #344 Alouette

Joseph Farah is spewing some bad batshit conspiracy craziness over at Whirled Nuts Daily, about Michael Savage being banned from the U.S.

No I'm not linking to that craphole.

From the US? Don't you mean the UK? That is old news, but good for Savage since he now has years of new material he can spew.

378 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:58:35pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Palin still stinks no matter how much you guys hate me. Go ahead and run her again. Failure awaits.

I don't need to hate you to disagree with the Palin stinks part, and agree with failure awaits part.

Guess that just makes me indifferent to you. Perhaps if you brought over more grilled fish...

379 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:58:37pm

re: #336 jcm

Yeah, that was ugly. Okay, that's two.

380 Aye Pod  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:58:57pm

Ok - night folks.

381 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:59:10pm

re: #371 Cato the Elder

Very kind of you, although I am more of a Faulkner fan; I have been working on it ... not punctuating is just my fun.

382 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:59:39pm

re: #269 ArmyWife

I was pretty sure near the end there McCain was voting for Obama himself!

383 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:59:51pm

re: #375 ShanghaiEd

The "I can see Russia from my house" line has always seemed a red herring to me. I knew that was a joke from Saturday Night Live, but what Palin actually said was "You can see Russia from Alaska"...as a response to a question about her experience with foreign policy(?!). How is her real response any less ridiculous than the fake one?

57 states

/your move

384 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:59:53pm

re: #374 funky chicken

McCain chose her because the "true conservative" wing was screaming at him that he HAD to choose a religious conservative pro-lifer. There were better choices out there, but some of them may have declined the invitation.

The sad thing is that the "true conservatives" still give McCain no gratitude for bringing Palin forward into national prominence. It's amazing to see folks on blogs wax poetic about how wonderful Palin is and then in the next sentence rail against "McAmnesty" or even worse nicknames.


well said ...

385 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 8:59:57pm

re: #379 Last Mohican

Yeah, that was ugly. Okay, that's two.

That one is definitely a "classic."

386 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:00:05pm

re: #361 Naso Tang

Ahh, a 1mps connection. I sympathize.

Even when the streaming doesn't stop and start, I get a migraine. DVD is better all around for me.

387 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:00:11pm

re: #382 dwells38

I was pretty sure near the end there McCain was voting for Obama himself!

Me too. I literally think it's possible that he voted for Obama.

388 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:00:44pm

re: #369 FurryOldGuyJeans

O was able to "stay on message" with a lot less effort than McCain had to expend for the simple fact that O had the DNC propaganda arm doing a majority of the heavy lifting and work for him.

I have to give BHO some credit, he ran his campaign against the well oiled Clinton machine, and won. You may not like him as a POTUS, but he's got the PR thing down pat.

389 meh130  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:00:54pm

re: #204 jaunte

I like Sarah Palin. I disagree with her views on science, but apparently that's not an uncommon issue with Republican politicians.

Please provide links to Palin's views on science.

And please read this article:

The Meaning of Sarah Palin

Excerpts:

Before her elevation, Palin had not been known as a combatant in the cultural battles of recent years. She had been serving as the popular chief executive of a geographically vast, sparsely populated, and economically vital state. She held conventionally conservative Republican views—pro-gun, anti-tax, and pro-life. She had risen to prominence by taking on Alaska’s corrupt and profligate Republican establishment. In running for and winning the governorship in 2006, she had promised (and had begun to deliver) reforms of the state’s relationship with Washington and with the oil companies that dominated its economy.

Palin’s social conservatism had never been the core of her political identity in Alaska. She always expressed general support for traditionalist views in interviews and debates, and it was widely known that she had also chosen to proceed with her fifth pregnancy after discovering the child had Down syndrome—a discovery that in about nine of ten cases leads parents to opt for abortion. But Palin never went out of her way to raise abortion or other social or cultural issues, and in her first two years as governor had not sought to change state policies in these areas. She was a good-government reformer with social conservative leanings, not the other way around.

But this was not how Palin was received on the national scene. Instead, her views on matters of cultural and social controversy very quickly became the chief focus of media attention, liberal criticism, and pundit analysis. Palin was assigned every view and position the Left considered unenlightened, and the response to her brought into the light all manner of implicit liberal assumptions about cultural conservatives. We were told that Palin was opposed to contraception, advocated teaching creationism in schools, and was inclined to ban books she disagreed with. She was described as a religious zealot, an anti-abortion extremist, a blind champion of abstinence-only sex education. She was said to have sought to make rape victims pay for their own medical exams, to have Alaska secede from the Union, and to get Pat Buchanan elected President. She was reported to believe that the Iraq war was mandated by God, that the end-times prophesied in the Book of Revelation were nearing and only Alaska would survive, and that global warming was purely a myth. None of this was true.

390 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:01:14pm

re: #316 Charles

Fifteen bucks a plate? What were they serving to net any proceeds from that, boogerburgers?

Not only hateful, but as low-rent has they come. Tancredo must be so proud.

391 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:01:44pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

Well, yea, Win 98se would tend to do that. I have a Win 98se tower as a backup, and it works fine for general browsing, but not heavy media stuff.

I just like the "feel" DVD provides. :)

392 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:01:47pm

re: #375 ShanghaiEd

The "I can see Russia from my house" line has always seemed a red herring to me. I knew that was a joke from Saturday Night Live, but what Palin actually said was "You can see Russia from Alaska"...as a response to a question about her experience with foreign policy(?!). How is her real response any less ridiculous than the fake one?

Because it is technically true. There are two islands off the coast of Alaska, Big and Little Diomede Islands. Big Diomede belongs to Russian, and Little Diomede belongs to the U.S.A. Each of the islands may be viewed while standing on the other.

393 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:03:09pm

re: #388 avanti

The media was in the tank for O, totally. He just had to look good for the photo ops.

394 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:03:27pm

re: #375 ShanghaiEd

The "I can see Russia from my house" line has always seemed a red herring to me. I knew that was a joke from Saturday Night Live, but what Palin actually said was "You can see Russia from Alaska"...as a response to a question about her experience with foreign policy(?!). How is her real response any less ridiculous than the fake one?

Some of the SNL skits even used her exact words and were still funny. She was rushed to the big stage and was not prepped.

395 mfarmer1  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:03:33pm

Beyond embarrassing.

Political parties and their respective proponents and voters are too rigid nowadays. It's as if you're not allowed to stray on controversial issues without feeling the heat from your own party.

Republican:
No abortion ever.
All taxes bad.
No such thing as global warming
No gay marriage.
Government evil.

Democrat:
Abortion anytime, anywhere. Government paid.
Never enough taxes.
The seas will rise 20 meters in 100 years. We all die.
Gays have every right to be as miserable as heterosexuals.
Government angelic.

I'm sick of it.

How about a party that says, if you want an abortion, fine, but I'm not paying for it?

How about a party that says, there should be more than enough taxes now to take care of all government services, and we need to re-examine the entire enchilada to make sure that it's used in the most efficient manner, and until we do, there are no more new taxes or tax breaks until further notice.

How about a party that says, you know, global warming may be happening due to man, so let's be prudent but not turn us all into living like the Unabomber?

How about a party that says, if you want to marry someone of the same sex, fine, but you don't get any special government recognition or tax breaks? Ditto for heterosexual marriages. Private insurance companies and employers can decide to do as they see fit.

How about a party that says, government is not the answer for your hangnail nor is it the reason for your hangnail?

Back to this creationism stuff...the problem is far worse than I ever could have imagined. How can seemingly normal competent people toss aside rational thought for such foolishness? This issue will haunt the GOP for years.

396 albusteve  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:03:41pm

re: #388 avanti

I have to give BHO some credit, he ran his campaign against the well oiled Clinton machine, and won. You may not like him as a POTUS, but he's got the PR thing down pat.

he cannot do one thing right so far...his down pat PR machine is a mechanism to keep people like you drooling...he's a beast eh?...oooweee! BO!

397 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:04:14pm

re: #389 meh130

As many updings as possible! Thank you for that post!

I'm out, probably for the night. I have some writing to do, and I can't do that and post here. TTYT

398 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:04:20pm

re: #37 nonic

No.

399 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:04:39pm

re: #392 Alouette

Because it is technically true. There are two islands off the coast of Alaska, Big and Little Diomede Islands. Big Diomede belongs to Russian, and Little Diomede belongs to the U.S.A. Each of the islands may be viewed while standing on the other.

And that equates to foreign policy expertise...how, exactly?

cough Palin is a joke cough

400 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:04:39pm

re: #394 avanti

Some of the SNL skits even used her exact words and were still funny. She was rushed to the big stage and was not prepped.

And Joe has been rushed under the bus. We are so lucky.

401 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:05:12pm

re: #366 Jimmah

You ignored my pub question. Step ootside ya baistart!

;-)

Well, I don't remember the names, but I do know that the most common one was next to The Meadows near where I lived. I just looked it up on Google Earth and it looks like the whole bloody area is nothing but apartments and construction site.

Did you ever get to the student Union? Longest bar in the world (of course we have on of those here in Florida too).

402 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:05:13pm

re: #394 avanti

... Roosevelt went on TV...

403 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:05:14pm

re: #399 Cato the Elder

And that equates to foreign policy expertise...how, exactly?

cough Palin is a joke cough

now say it in Austrian

404 gmsc  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:05:20pm

re: #367 Naso Tang

Who's Chrissy?

Jack and Janet's first roommate.
;)

405 hopperandadropper  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:06:13pm

So is anyone actually surprised by further proof that Chris Matthews is a moron?

When the "listening tour" comes to town, I'm going to ask Jeb et al. why they are so stuck on stupid-assed anti-science dogma.

God, why couldn't we have had Rudy?

406 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:06:35pm

re: #399 Cato the Elder

And that equates to foreign policy expertise...how, exactly?

cough Palin Biden is a joke cough

/fixed

407 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:06:37pm

re: #389 meh130

This is what I was referring to.

After conducting a college band and watching Palin deliver a commencement address to a small group of home-schooled students in June 1997, Wasilla resident Philip Munger said, he asked the young mayor about her religious beliefs.

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said. When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger, who teaches music at the University of Alaska in Anchorage and has regularly criticized Palin in recent years on his liberal political blog, called Progressive Alaska.

The idea of a "young Earth" -- that God created the Earth about 6,000 years ago, and dinosaurs and humans coexisted early on -- is a popular strain of creationism.

Though in her race for governor she called for faith-based "intelligent design" to be taught along with evolution in Alaska's schools, Gov. Palin has not sought to require it, state educators say.
[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

408 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:06:40pm

re: #403 OldLineTexan

now say it in Austrian

Palin isch a Witzerl.

409 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:07:08pm

re: #405 hopperandadropper

So is anyone actually surprised by further proof that Chris Matthews is a moron?

When the "listening tour" comes to town, I'm going to ask Jeb et al. why they are so stuck on stupid-assed anti-science dogma.

God, why couldn't we have had Rudy?

He flamed out early.

410 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:07:13pm

www.7.gov

~Joe Biden

411 Sosigado  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:07:19pm

Now it's Tancredo. My, they're dropping like flies.

412 meh130  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:07:24pm

re: #305 Alouette

Anne France.

Ouch. And from a lizard, to boot.

QED Mohican, QED.

413 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:07:33pm

re: #394 avanti

Some of the SNL skits even used her exact words and were still funny. She was rushed to the big stage and was not prepped prepared.

fixed

414 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:07:52pm

re: #399 Cato the Elder

And that equates to foreign policy expertise...how, exactly?

cough Palin is a joke cough

What foreign policy expertise did the big O bring to the Oval Office, other than thinking people speak Austrian, and there are 57 states?

Every dumbness that you think you can load on Palin, fits nice on Obama and on Biden too.

415 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:07:57pm

re: #405 hopperandadropper

So is anyone actually surprised by further proof that Chris Matthews is a moron?

When the "listening tour" comes to town, I'm going to ask Jeb et al. why they are so stuck on stupid-assed anti-science dogma.

God, why couldn't we have had Rudy?

Because he refused to run until Florida, and that proved to be a mistake?

416 MrPaulRevere  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:08:11pm

re: #389 meh130

That was a well written balanced article, thanks.

417 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:08:13pm

"Even if the quote stood for what the quote miners claim it does, Darwin was writing almost 150 years ago, at a time early in the scientific study of fossils and when few scientists were expecting to find “transitional forms."

Absurd. Transitional fossils were the holy grail of the time.

418 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:08:22pm

re: #408 Cato the Elder

Palin isch a Witzerl.

I hope you forgot the sarc tag.

419 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:08:40pm

re: #411 Sosigado

Now it's Tancredo. My, they're dropping like flies.

No, the flies are circling this Creationist shit people want to foist on us. Even they are finding there is too much being excreted.

420 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:08:46pm

re: #399 Cato the Elder

And that equates to foreign policy expertise...how, exactly?

cough Palin is a joke cough

Obama's executive experience was limited to "running his campaign" per his own words.

cough Obama is a joke cough

421 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:08:53pm

re: #383 OldLineTexan

57 states

/your move

The 57 state comment was just a slip of the tongue, no one thinks BHO did not know the number of states. Using the fact that you can see Russia from your state as foreign policy experience is like me saying I'm a chef if I live over a restaurant.

422 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:09:01pm

re: #375 ShanghaiEd

How is her real response any less ridiculous than the fake one?

Context is important. Her comment was an effort to support her viewpoint that the US needed diplomatic relationships with Russia in spite of the Georgian crisis.

423 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:09:07pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Hugo rules.

Hey, I recently saw a tv interview with him, and he showed pictures of his big 'ol vegetable he's growing in Hawaii. Guy's pulling down big tv money, and he's growing his own food. I don't think he's gonna end up being one of those "Hey, where'd all my money go" types.

424 dwells38  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:09:18pm

re: #352 _RememberTonyC

I wasn't a big fan of Palin, although I did vote for McCain. Some of my Democrat friends (at least the ones who aren't nuts) told me that they'd have at least considered voting for McCain if not for Palin being on the ticket.

I have to say I liked Palin. Yeah gorgeous and cute but not just that. I agree she didn't come off really polished but by all accounts she seems to be doing a good job in Alaska. I was thinking hey she must be a good manager. Isn't that ultimately what we need (If anything happened to McCain)? No single man or woman has all the answers. All they can do is put together a good team, run after a few big things that are good for eveyone and address the big asteroids when they come at us.

We've had smart guys before and they didn't always do that good. Nixon and Clinton both were self destructive. Bush was surprisingly disciplined most the way thru. Leaders lead was not particularly catchy but on the important stuff people knew where GW stood and that's better than some of the muddle I'm seeing now. I'm afraid our enemies smell weakness and are continuing to look for ways to maneuver us where they want.

425 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:09:47pm

re: #412 meh130

Ouch. And from a lizard, to boot.

QED Mohican, QED.

Yes, I have admitted my wrongness.

I had misremembered AnneFrance's post as arguing that Sarah Palin shouldn't be working outside the house with five kids at home. Not that she shouldn't have had the fifth kid in the first place. My bad.

426 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:10:00pm

re: #386 FurryOldGuyJeans

Even when the streaming doesn't stop and start, I get a migraine. DVD is better all around for me.

I have a slingbox at home. Use it at the place in the mountains with 1.5mps DSL and feed it to a 42 inch LCD with S-Video.

Works great, most of the time.

427 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:10:08pm

re: #414 Alouette

What foreign policy expertise did the big O bring to the Oval Office, other than thinking people speak Austrian, and there are 57 states?

Every dumbness that you think you can load on Palin, fits nice on Obama and on Biden too.


it's not that i don't agree with you, but Obama was already a well known brand from a big city and a harvard degree. Palin was none of those.

428 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:10:12pm

re: #418 OldLineTexan

I hope you forgot the sarc tag.

No, Cato really doesn't like Sarah.

429 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:10:29pm

re: #418 OldLineTexan

I hope you forgot the sarc tag.

For the umpteenth time: I don't do "sarc tags". If I'm being sarcastic, you'll know it from the gaping holes in your flesh.

430 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:10:43pm

re: #421 avanti

The 57 state comment was just a slip of the tongue, no one thinks BHO did not know the number of states. Using the fact that you can see Russia from your state as foreign policy experience is like me saying I'm a chef if I live over a restaurant.

does your hair part when stuff flies over your head like that?

431 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:11:15pm

re: #421 avanti

Spin, spin, spin. You should consider joining the FMSM, you'd be a natural.

432 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:11:33pm

re: #421 avanti

Palin was referring to dealing internationally with Russia as a neighbor of Alaska, just like a Texas governor would have referred to dealing with Mexico as international experience. The misinterpretations of what she meant were bullshit.

433 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:11:34pm

re: #429 Cato the Elder

For the umpteenth time: I don't do "sarc tags". If I'm being sarcastic, you'll know it from the gaping holes in your flesh.

OK, fine by me.

No such language as "Austrian"; i.e., Obama is as stupid as Palin.

434 hopperandadropper  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:12:00pm

re: #415 OldLineTexan

It was actually a rhetorical question- I am familiar with the history.

435 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:12:09pm

re: #388 avanti

I have to give BHO some credit, he ran his campaign against the well oiled Clinton machine, and won. You may not like him as a POTUS, but he's got the PR thing down pat.

To discredit the political ability of Barack Obama is a path to future failures. As we have seen his ability led him straight into the White House even with his weak political experience and dubious associations. Some will say that he was helped by the MSM's support and McCain's weaknesses. Others will simply blame McCain for the loss in 2008. Others will blame the GOP, the Iraq War, and the Bush administration. Anyone that plays the game of politics knows very well to not brush off his talent in the political field.

436 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:12:14pm

I want to hear more from this guy

437 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:12:30pm

re: #426 Naso Tang

I have a slingbox at home. Use it at the place in the mountains with 1.5mps DSL and feed it to a 42 inch LCD with S-Video.

Works great, most of the time.

Glad you like it. I have looked into all the techy alternatives, and I like DVD.

438 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:12:45pm

re: #421 avanti

That moron even stopped to think about it before he spoke!

439 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:13:18pm

re: #436 Sharmuta

I want to hear more from this guy

A lot of us do but apparently there are some in the GOP that want to cut him off.

440 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:14:08pm

re: #393 FurryOldGuyJeans

The media was in the tank for O, totally. He just had to look good for the photo ops.

Nope, he kicked Hillary's ass, and that took more then photo ops. No candidate in decades drew crowds in the 100,000's just for a speech. No recent candidate got so many volunteers to drink the Kool-Aid as you like to say, and yes, he played the media like a violin.

441 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:14:19pm

re: #434 hopperandadropper

It was actually a rhetorical question- I am familiar with the history.

OK. Do you agree many of our more-desirable Republican candidates just seemed disinclined to RUN for some reason?

442 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:14:23pm

re: #437 FurryOldGuyJeans

Glad you like it. I have looked into all the techy alternatives, and I like DVD.

Shoot, and I thought I had a sale going there...

443 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:14:27pm

Why even bother comparing Obama to Palin? Biden and Palin is more fun.

The Vill-a-Gez.

444 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:14:33pm

re: #424 dwells38

I have to say I liked Palin. Yeah gorgeous and cute but not just that. I agree she didn't come off really polished but by all accounts she seems to be doing a good job in Alaska. I was thinking hey she must be a good manager. Isn't that ultimately what we need (If anything happened to McCain)? No single man or woman has all the answers. All they can do is put together a good team, run after a few big things that are good for eveyone and address the big asteroids when they come at us.

We've had smart guys before and they didn't always do that good. Nixon and Clinton both were self destructive. Bush was surprisingly disciplined most the way thru. Leaders lead was not particularly catchy but on the important stuff people knew where GW stood and that's better than some of the muddle I'm seeing now. I'm afraid our enemies smell weakness and are continuing to look for ways to maneuver us where they want.


Palin is a quality individual and I could even picture her as a Senator someday. But there are "national" figures and then there are "regional" or "local" figures. Palin is strictly regional or local. Same deal with Jindal. They have roles to play and can be quite effective. But neither is presidential material IMHO.

445 hazzyday  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:14:33pm

One wonders why all these smart politicians and media talking heads are afraid to say that they are for or against the concept of a 10,000 year old earth. In the past election the claims of a powerful Evangelical voting block turned out to be false. Most of them stayed home.

446 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:14:56pm

re: #439 Gus 802

A lot of us do but apparently there are some in the GOP that want to cut him off.

Okay- well... While others are out talking at a tea party, we could have him come speak to us at a beer party.

447 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:15:18pm

re: #433 OldLineTexan

OK, fine by me.

No such language as "Austrian"; i.e., Obama is as stupid as Palin.

There is an Austrian dialect. There are several, actually, Viennese being the most widely known. I happen to speak it.

And Obama could lose half his brain to a stroke and the other half to Alzheimer's and still be smarter than Sarah.

448 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:15:54pm

re: #413 _RememberTonyC

fixed

Umm, prepped is Hollyweird talk for prepared.

449 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:16:10pm

re: #440 avanti

Nope, he kicked Hillary's ass, and that took more then photo ops. No candidate in decades drew crowds in the 100,000's just for a speech. No recent candidate got so many volunteers to drink the Kool-Aid as you like to say, and yes, he played the media like a violin.

If violins fellated violinists at the same rate the MSM fellated Obama, Kilgore Trout would be (a) richer than Bill Gates and (b) exhausted.

And the Suzuki method schools would be jam-packed.

450 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:16:30pm

re: #421 avanti

The 57 state comment was just a slip of the tongue, no one thinks BHO did not know the number of states. Using the fact that you can see Russia from your state as foreign policy experience is like me saying I'm a chef if I live over a restaurant.

10,000 people killed in Kansas and an entire town wiped out when the actual death toll was 12.

He says his uncle liberated Auchwitz. He was 500 miles away.

During his speech he talked about the need for more Arabic speakers in Afghanistan.

He joked that it was ‘Cinco de Cuatro,’ botching a play on the Spanish word for ‘four’ when he meant to say ‘Cuatro de Mayo’ or the Fourth of May. He instead said ‘Five of Four,’ or maybe ‘Fifth of Fourth,’ whatever in the heck either of those mean.

Hey, Avanti, how many more of these do you want? I have a lot more than this...

451 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:16:49pm

re: #446 Sharmuta

Okay- well... While others are out talking at a tea party, we could have him come speak to us at a beer party.

That would be a good alternative. I know he had his appearance in Michigan canceled by a local GOP group but was re-invited back to Michigan by the state GOP at the last minute. I never followed up to see how that went,

452 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:16:49pm

re: #440 avanti

Nope, he kicked Hillary's ass, and that took more then photo ops. No candidate in decades drew crowds in the 100,000's just for a speech. No recent candidate got so many volunteers to drink the Kool-Aid as you like to say, and yes, he played the media like a violin.

IMO the media liked him b/c he was black, and nice and had no undesirable background. No other reason. Had they researched his background and reported on it the election would've been different.

453 hopperandadropper  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:17:18pm

re: #441 OldLineTexan

Totally agree- the fundamentalist wing of the GOP makes it hard for people like Rudy to make it through the primary, just like the Daily Kos wing of the Dems makes it hard for any of the few remaining moderate Dems to get any traction. I'm beginning to think we need a parliamentary system, but that has a lot of drawbacks too.

454 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:17:21pm

re: #447 Cato the Elder

There is an Austrian dialect. There are several, actually, Viennese being the most widely known. I happen to speak it.

And Obama could lose half his brain to a stroke and the other half to Alzheimer's and still be smarter than Sarah.

There is no Austrian language. There are German dialects.

And no, he couldn't, but I admit he looks good with Soros' hand up his ass.

455 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:17:40pm

re: #451 Gus 802

That would be a good alternative. I know he had his appearance in Michigan canceled by a local GOP group but was re-invited back to Michigan by the state GOP at the last minute. I never followed up to see how that went,

I bet a beer party would attract more folks, since we have beer.

456 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:18:20pm

re: #440 avanti

Keep on saying that, you might actually start believing it some day.

You can have the last word, I shan't continue arguing with obtuseness and dogmatism.

457 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:18:26pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

Uhhh ... PALIN IS STUPID!

/

458 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:18:41pm

re: #453 hopperandadropper

Totally agree- the fundamentalist wing of the GOP makes it hard for people like Rudy to make it through the primary, just like the Daily Kos wing of the Dems makes it hard for any of the few remaining moderate Dems to get any traction. I'm beginning to think we need a parliamentary system, but that has a lot of drawbacks too.

Rudy makes it hard for Rudy. The guy didn't even fight. A wimp and loser.

459 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:18:46pm

re: #455 Sharmuta

I bet a beer party would attract more folks, since we have beer.

True, I do have a pint of Guinness in the frig. ;)

460 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:18:46pm

This just clarifies to me that in arguing against ID right now we have to confront the macro vs. micro argument in each encounter and totally overthrow it from the first in the public mind. The no speciation stance is where they are backed up to, so that's where we must break their latest hold. Until we pry the general public's mind from the Idea that "Intelligent design" = God and that science = Satan we aren't going to be able to stop the Republican genuflection in that direction.

461 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:18:48pm

re: #448 FurryOldGuyJeans

Umm, prepped is Hollyweird talk for prepared.

"Prepped" has the connotation of "cramming for finals." "Prepared" means having enough experience and savvy so you don't need to be "prepped."

462 hopperandadropper  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:19:05pm

re: #447 Cato the Elder

Obama appears to be quite ignorant of history- aside from his oratorical skills, what exactly makes you think he's so smart? I've known lots of Harvard grads that didn't have enough sense to pour water out of a boot.

463 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:19:11pm

re: #447 Cato the Elder

There is an Austrian dialect. There are several, actually, Viennese being the most widely known. I happen to speak it.

And Obama could lose half his brain to a stroke and the other half to Alzheimer's and still be smarter than Sarah.

You think this for a certain reason? So you've heard both speak in public personally and probably even had private conservations with them in order to judge their intelligence? Sounds like an evidence based opinion if I've ever heard one.

464 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:19:30pm

re: #457 OldLineTexan

Uhhh ... PALIN IS STUPID!

/

I didn't say that.

465 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:19:31pm

re: #366 Jimmah

You ignored my pub question. Step ootside ya baistart!

;-)

So sorry. I missed it earlier. Actually the World's End rings bells, but I would have to go back to know for sure. As I said earlier, near The Meadows is as close I can get.

466 Sosigado  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:19:33pm

Avanti still feels that tingle.

467 jcm  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:19:42pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

10,000 people killed in Kansas and an entire town wiped out when the actual death toll was 12.

He says his uncle liberated Auchwitz. He was 500 miles away.

During his speech he talked about the need for more Arabic speakers in Afghanistan.

He joked that it was ‘Cinco de Cuatro,’ botching a play on the Spanish word for ‘four’ when he meant to say ‘Cuatro de Mayo’ or the Fourth of May. He instead said ‘Five of Four,’ or maybe ‘Fifth of Fourth,’ whatever in the heck either of those mean.

Hey, Avanti, how many more of these do you want? I have a lot more than this...

My favorite.

8 minutes of ahh, urr, um in a 40 minute presser.

468 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:19:51pm

re: #458 Walter L. Newton

Rudy makes it hard for Rudy. The guy didn't even fight. A wimp and loser.

I didn't see fundies shoving Fred under a podium, either, come to think of it.

469 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:20:02pm

re: #452 simonml

IMO the media liked him b/c he was black, and nice and had no undesirable background.

470 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:20:12pm

re: #464 Walter L. Newton

I didn't say that.

Sarc tag, Walter.

471 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:20:14pm

Either you have a strong desire to fellate Obama or you don't. Most here don't.

472 MrPaulRevere  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:20:19pm

Sarah Palin has been politically knee-capped for various reasons. I think she is finished on the national stage.

473 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:20:20pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

10,000 people killed in Kansas and an entire town wiped out when the actual death toll was 12.

He says his uncle liberated Auchwitz. He was 500 miles away.

During his speech he talked about the need for more Arabic speakers in Afghanistan.

He joked that it was ‘Cinco de Cuatro,’ botching a play on the Spanish word for ‘four’ when he meant to say ‘Cuatro de Mayo’ or the Fourth of May. He instead said ‘Five of Four,’ or maybe ‘Fifth of Fourth,’ whatever in the heck either of those mean.

Hey, Avanti, how many more of these do you want? I have a lot more than this...

Don't ask Avanti. Please do it for my entertainment!

474 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:20:22pm

re: #460 Thanos

We'll all be long dead and gone by then.

475 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:21:21pm

re: #472 MrPaulRevere

Sarah Palin has been politically knee-capped for various reasons. I think she is finished on the national stage.

I agree.

476 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:21:24pm

re: #468 OldLineTexan

I didn't see fundies shoving Fred under a podium, either, come to think of it.

Correct. Rudy and Fred, no matter what they perceived their chances at, they didn't even give it a go. They farted out as soon as they could. No ones fault but their own.

477 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:21:58pm

re: #461 _RememberTonyC

"Prepped" has the connotation of "cramming for finals." "Prepared" means having enough experience and savvy so you don't need to be "prepped."

Oh, so now we are going to argue semantics? Neato! ;)

Thesaurus fight!

478 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:22:04pm

re: #430 OldLineTexan

does your hair part when stuff flies over your head like that?

Funny comments are nice, but I asssumed you thought the POTUS was actually unaware of the number of states and that was equivilant to Palin's "You can see Russia" comment, sorry.

479 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:22:13pm

re: #454 OldLineTexan

There is no Austrian language. There are German dialects.

And no, he couldn't, but I admit he looks good with Soros' hand up his ass.

Tell that to an Austrian.

And as for fisting...

No. Won't go there. I'm still a gentleman.

480 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:22:14pm

re: #389 meh130
Another reference to Palin's views on science ( and why I disagree with them) here:


There's another serious side to Palin's swat at fruit fly research. The French study that she says is doing no public good is no doubt a reference to money secured by Mike Thompson, a Democratic congressman in California's Napa Valley, which was highlighted by the Citizens Against Government Waste as one of its top "oinkers" of 2008. The money is being used to fund research into the olive fruit fly.

In April, when Thompson won the dubious achievement, he responded: "The olive fruit fly has infested thousands of California olive groves and is the single largest threat to the U.S. olive and olive oil industries." He explained that the U.S. Department of Agriculture will employ a portion ($211,000) of the $750,000 award for research in France. "This USDA research facility is located in France because Mediterranean countries like France have dealt with the olive fruit fly for decades, while California has only been exposed since the late 1990s," he said.

Citizens Against Government Waste, a nonprofit group in Washington, D.C., which singled out the olive fruit fly study for ridicule, has long been in the good graces of Palin's running mate, John McCain. Its political lobbying arm has twice supported McCain for president. As the Washington Post reported in May, the group ventured onto murky legal ground when it produced an ad that defended McCain for supporting a $40 billion defense contract to Northrop Grumman and its European counterparts. Democrats and labor unions charged that the contract moved tens of thousands of jobs abroad.

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

481 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:22:44pm

re: #477 FurryOldGuyJeans

Oh, so now we are going to argue semantics? Neato! ;)

Thesaurus fight!

Do you think Adam and Eve ever watched one?

/

482 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:22:49pm

re: #472 MrPaulRevere

Sarah Palin has been politically knee-capped for various reasons. I think she is finished on the national stage.

I also think she's finished in the national stage. She may have the potential for a run for the Senate. From the field of 2008 candidates the only one I see remaining with a future in the national stage is Mitt Romney.

483 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:23:05pm

re: #479 Cato the Elder

Tell that to an Austrian.

And as for fisting...

No. Won't go there. I'm still a gentleman.

I will. In German.

484 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:23:11pm

re: #468 OldLineTexan

I didn't see fundies shoving Fred under a podium, either, come to think of it.

Fred poured water on his campfire right quick, just got it started and PFFFT!.

485 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:23:18pm

re: #477 FurryOldGuyJeans

Oh, so now we are going to argue semantics? Neato! ;)

Thesaurus fight!

No sir ... I'd never argue that topic with you! Nuance, on the other hand :)

486 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:23:23pm

re: #459 Gus 802

True, I do have a pint of Guinness in the frig. ;)

Tea Beer Party!

487 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:23:34pm

Looks like Tancredo is also an anti-vaxer...


One day in Keene, N.H., I tagged along with Tom Tancredo as he went from table to table in Lindy's Diner. Tancredo is a Colorado Republican with a hard line on immigration. He said he needed to raise $1 million in the first three months of the year. Wasn't sure he could do it. Hardly anyone knows who he is.

"Hi, I'm Tom Tancredo," he would say at each table. Most people had no idea who he was, and he seemed a bit reluctant to utter the obvious phrase, "and I'm running for president."

A woman asked Tancredo, "What do you think of autism in this country?" She has a 4-year-old with autism. Tancredo said, "I think much of it is due to the number of shots we give to kids . . ." They talked about mercury in vaccines' preservatives. She was impressed by Tancredo -- but she's a Democrat. Retail has its limitations.

488 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:23:40pm

re: #482 Gus 802

I also think she's finished in the national stage. She may have the potential for a run for the Senate. From the field of 2008 candidates the only one I see remaining with a future in the national stage is Mitt Romney.

Oh Joseph, no.../

489 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:23:54pm

re: #473 simonml

Don't ask Avanti. Please do it for my entertainment!

In the third sentence of his inaugural speech Tuesday, the newly sworn-in president said, "Forty-four Americans have now taken the presidential oath." While there have been 44 presidential administrations, there have been only 43 presidents; Grover Cleveland served two nonconsecutive terms in the late 1800s.

490 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:06pm

re: #478 avanti

Funny comments are nice, but I asssumed you thought the POTUS was actually unaware of the number of states and that was equivilant to Palin's "You can see Russia" comment, sorry.

Oh, no, it's not. He's said a lot of stuff way dumber than that.

491 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:12pm

What religion does Joe Biden practice?

So does it matter what religion Palin adheres to? Unless she was foisting it upon others.

492 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:30pm

re: #488 Naso Tang

Oh Joseph, no.../

Smith?

493 MrPaulRevere  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:35pm

re: #475 Sharmuta

I've gotten past the point where I get personally attached to political figures. If I think their views are acceptable and they can win, I'll support them. I hate losing with a passion.

494 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:36pm

re: #431 FurryOldGuyJeans

Spin, spin, spin. You should consider joining the FMSM, you'd be a natural.

Look, I did not know he was joking with the 57 state thing. I've seen Hannity actually use it as a serious comment.

495 ShanghaiEd  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:42pm

re: #392 Alouette

Of course it's true. But what does it have to do with her expertise in foreign policy, which was the actual question?

496 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:51pm

re: #476 Walter L. Newton

Correct. Rudy and Fred, no matter what they perceived their chances at, they didn't even give it a go. They farted out as soon as they could. No ones fault but their own.

I preferred Fred to Rudy by a huge distance, but to have had both just utterly give up was very disheartening.

497 Last Mohican  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:51pm

Here's how much the MSM hated Sarah Palin: During the campaign, CNN actually paid to send a reporter, Gary Tuchman, all the way to the remote Alaskan island of Little Diomede, which is the place in Alaska from which you can see Russia. The reporter asked around, and found out that Palin had never been to the island, which he felt somehow nullifed her comment about Russia being close to Alaska. Then he pointed out how poor everyone was there, implying that Palin was somehow negligent and uncaring for not visiting. And then he snarkily made fun of Palin and gratuitously attacked her for a while.

It's worth watching this, if you've forgotten the extreme lengths to which the media went in their biased attacks on Sarah Palin.

498 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:24:54pm

re: #492 Gus 802

Smith?

:D

499 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:25:09pm

re: #486 Sharmuta

Tea Beer Party!

Beer for the party. Tea for the hangover.

500 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:25:23pm

re: #476 Walter L. Newton

Didja check the abc website?

501 hopperandadropper  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:25:43pm

re: #480 jaunte

When politicians try to get traction by ridiculing research projects, they're almost always full of crap because they don't know jack about science. A very high percentage of what we know about genetics, including human genetics, has come from studying fruit flies and nematodes.

502 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:27:20pm

re: #497 Last Mohican

Here's how much the MSM hated Sarah Palin: During the campaign, CNN actually paid to send a reporter, Gary Tuchman, all the way to the remote Alaskan island of Little Diomede, which is the place in Alaska from which you can see Russia. The reporter asked around, and found out that Palin had never been to the island, which he felt somehow nullifed her comment about Russia being close to Alaska. Then he pointed out how poor everyone was there, implying that Palin was somehow negligent and uncaring for not visiting. And then he snarkily made fun of Palin and gratuitously attacked her for a while.

It's worth watching this, if you've forgotten the extreme lengths to which the media went in their biased attacks on Sarah Palin.

I vividly remember CNN's coverage of Sarah Palin and will never forgive them. Never once did they try to be objective in their coverage of her. It was more like damage control.

503 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:27:24pm

re: #497 Last Mohican

Cry me a bridge to nowhere.

504 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:27:46pm

re: #500 OldLineTexan

Didja check the abc website?

No, not yet. I'm in Safari and I have trouble at ABC with Safari, and I don't want to shut down and bring up IE, lazy, tired, happy, I'll check again.

From what I gather HuLu may have them all even if ABC doesn't. But, I think ABC does, it's on a page with a scrolling page of episodes with a promo picture for each episode.

Maybe you didn't scroll down all the way?

505 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:27:47pm

Guten nacht.

And, for all you Austrians out there, Guten nacht.

506 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:27:57pm

re: #498 Naso Tang

:D

Maybe. Doesn't bother me much. I think he's a good speaker and can find a lot of common ground with people. He was governor of Mass. I know that some people didn't like him as governor. If we count out Romney from the 2008 field than I would say there are no future national candidates from that field.

507 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:28:13pm

re: #501 hopperandadropper

Based on that Salon story, it was another time Palin allowed herself to be misinformed by the McCain campaign. It doesn't reflect well on anyone involved.

508 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:28:16pm

re: #493 MrPaulRevere

I've gotten past the point where I get personally attached to political figures. If I think their views are acceptable and they can win, I'll support them. I hate losing with a passion.

My view pretty much stems from the appalling display of misogyny I witnessed and both Sarah and Hillary. I don't believe a woman can win in such an environment. I believe this last campaign will have a chilling effect on women even considering politics.

509 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:28:25pm

re: #494 avanti

Thanks for trying, but see my #456.

Cheers.

510 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:29:02pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

My view pretty much stems from the appalling display of misogyny I witnessed at both Sarah and Hillary.

Err- PIMF.

511 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:29:29pm

re: #497 Last Mohican

Here's how much the MSM hated Sarah Palin: During the campaign, CNN actually paid to send a reporter, Gary Tuchman, all the way to the remote Alaskan island of Little Diomede, which is the place in Alaska from which you can see Russia. The reporter asked around, and found out that Palin had never been to the island, which he felt somehow nullifed her comment about Russia being close to Alaska. Then he pointed out how poor everyone was there, implying that Palin was somehow negligent and uncaring for not visiting. And then he snarkily made fun of Palin and gratuitously attacked her for a while.

It's worth watching this, if you've forgotten the extreme lengths to which the media went in their biased attacks on Sarah Palin.


Yep, once they smelled blood in the water, the media went over the top, no argument there. The right has the churches locked up, the press has the MSM.

512 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:30:19pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

My view pretty much stems from the appalling display of misogyny I witnessed and both Sarah and Hillary. I don't believe a woman can win in such an environment. I believe this last campaign will have a chilling effect on women even considering politics.

I think some of the worst misogyny that I have seen actually comes from other women.

513 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:30:31pm

re: #504 Walter L. Newton

No, not yet. I'm in Safari and I have trouble at ABC with Safari, and I don't want to shut down and bring up IE, lazy, tired, happy, I'll check again.

From what I gather HuLu may have them all even if ABC doesn't. But, I think ABC does, it's on a page with a scrolling page of episodes with a promo picture for each episode.

Maybe you didn't scroll down all the way?

I tried; I even switched to earlier seasons and got it to scroll.

Maybe I had a scroll fail. I guess I will retry tomorrow.

Hulu has four episodes from Season 5, unless I screwed that up too.

514 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:30:45pm

re: #505 OldLineTexan

Guten nacht.

And, for all you Austrians out there, Guten nacht.

Same to you.

Except it's gute Nacht. Auf deutsch wie auf österreichisch.

515 Learned Mother of Zion  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:31:19pm

goodnight, I have to go. I feel the ambien kicking in.

516 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:31:32pm

re: #474 Danny

We'll all be long dead and gone by then.

I don't think so, average life expectancy is 78 or so and it's not going to take that much longer to back DI up from "no speciation" since's it is a ridiculous stance, disprovable now by merely looking at ring species and others that have speciated during recorded observance, like the bacteria experiment. [forget the fellow's name, started with an "L" I believe? ]

517 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:31:43pm

re: #514 Cato the Elder

Same to you.

Except it's gute Nacht. Auf deutsch wie auf österreichisch.

Thanks ... too long since high school German/Austrian.

/

518 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:31:50pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

My view pretty much stems from the appalling display of misogyny I witnessed and both Sarah and Hillary. I don't believe a woman can win in such an environment. I believe this last campaign will have a chilling effect on women even considering politics.

There used to be a strain of EXTREME hatred against electing a Black man, and that was over-come. A woman POTUS will happen, the question is just when. I hope it could be 2012.

Not holding my breath if it doesn't, though.

519 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:31:59pm

re: #511 avanti

Yep, once they smelled blood in the water, the media went over the top, no argument there. The right has the churches locked up, the press has the MSM.

Reverend Wright's a REPUBLICAN ?!

Shit, where's my registration card !

RIIIPPP.

520 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:32:40pm

re: #519 SasquatchOnSteroids

Reverend Wright's a REPUBLICAN ?!

Shit, where's my registration card !

RIIIPPP.

You didn't know that?

He a Wright-Wing-Extremist.

//

521 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:32:46pm

re: #512 _RememberTonyC

I think some of the worst misogyny that I have seen actually comes from other women.

Did I say otherwise?

522 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:32:51pm

re: #503 Cato the Elder

Cry me a bridge to nowhere.

Let's be evenhanded:

Robert C. Byrd Academic and Technology Center
Robert C. Byrd addition to the lodge at Oglebay Park, Wheeling
Byrd Aerospace Technology Center
Robert C. Byrd Bridge between Huntington and Chesapeake, Ohio
Robert C. Byrd Cancer Research Center
Robert C. Byrd Clinical Addition to the veteran's hospital in Huntington
Robert C. Byrd Community Center, Pine Grove
Robert C. Byrd Community Center in the naval station, Sugar Grove
Robert C. Byrd Drive, from Beckley to Sophia (Byrd's hometown)
Robert C. Byrd Expressway, U.S. 22 near Weirton
Robert C. Byrd Federal Building
Robert C. Byrd Federal Courthouse
Robert C. Byrd Freeway
Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope
Robert C. Byrd Hardwood Technologies Center, near Princeton
Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center of West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd High school in Bridgeport
Robert C. Byrd Highway
Robert C. Byrd Hilltop Office Complex, Mineral County
Robert C. Byrd Honors Scholarships
Robert C. Byrd Industrial Park, Hardy County
Robert C. Byrd Institute in Charleston
Robert C. Byrd Institute for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing
Robert C. Byrd Library and Robert C. Byrd Learning Resource Center
Robert C. Byrd Life Long Learning Center
Robert C. Byrd Locks and Dam
Robert C. Byrd National Technology Transfer Center
Robert C. Byrd Rural Health Center
Robert C. Byrd Scholastic Recognition Award
Byrd Science Center, Shepherd University
Robert C. Byrd Technology Center at Alderson-Broaddus College
Robert C. Byrd United Technical Center
Robert C. Byrd Visitor Center at Harpers Ferry National Historic Park

523 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:32:51pm

He's a...

PIMF

524 Danny  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:33:08pm

re: #516 Thanos

Hope you're right, for my kid's sake if nothing else.

525 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:33:19pm

re: #518 FurryOldGuyJeans

There used to be a strain of EXTREME hatred against electing a Black man, and that was over-come. A woman POTUS will happen, the question is just when. I hope it could be 2012.

Not holding my breath if it doesn't, though.

At some point it will happen, sure. But don't look for it any time soon.

526 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:33:42pm

re: #522 jaunte

Byrd's been in power longer than Castro.

527 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:33:46pm

The argument always turns to Obama vs. Palin.

Why?

Because it is so easy for them to beat up on a woman.

But say one negative thing about the black guy and you are a racist.

528 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:33:48pm

re: #519 SasquatchOnSteroids

Reverend Wright's a REPUBLICAN ?!

Shit, where's my registration card !

RIIIPPP.

avanti can be just so full of shit, the utter lies he spews near constantly.

529 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:34:12pm

re: #506 Gus 802

Smarter than many, but with a lot of suspect baggage in my mind; but I know too much about his "fathers" that he will always support. Call me prejudiced. I suppose I am in some cases.

530 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:34:16pm

re: #526 Gus 802

Byrd's been in power longer than Castro.

He may actually be Jefferson Davis.

531 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:34:24pm

re: #524 Danny

Hope you're right, for my kid's sake if nothing else.

The hard part is going to be educating the airheads in the media.

532 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:34:28pm

re: #511 avanti

Yep, once they smelled blood in the water, the media went over the top, no argument there. The right has the churches locked up, the press has the MSM.

Obama's minister and his church are working for the right? Did you win the stupid race again tonight?

533 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:34:32pm

re: #527 Racer X

I said it was the misogyny.

534 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:34:44pm

re: #521 Sharmuta

Did I say otherwise?


Nope ... you certainly didn't

535 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:34:45pm

Well, I really am going now.

Because if I fuck up one more thing without a teleprompter, I'll be President.

And I have too much work to do for that.

/

536 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:35:39pm

re: #534 _RememberTonyC

Nope ... you certainly didn't

Misogyny is the hatred of women. That doesn't mean the hatred only comes from men.

537 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:35:43pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

10,000 people killed in Kansas and an entire town wiped out when the actual death toll was 12.

He says his uncle liberated Auchwitz. He was 500 miles away.

During his speech he talked about the need for more Arabic speakers in Afghanistan.

He joked that it was ‘Cinco de Cuatro,’ botching a play on the Spanish word for ‘four’ when he meant to say ‘Cuatro de Mayo’ or the Fourth of May. He instead said ‘Five of Four,’ or maybe ‘Fifth of Fourth,’ whatever in the heck either of those mean.

Hey, Avanti, how many more of these do you want? I have a lot more than this...

I could drag out a much of Bush'isms, but that would not be fair to either Bush or BHO, they both misspoke on occasion, and caught hell for it. Those are slips of the tongue, flying AF 1 at low altitude in NYC was a fuck up, there is a differance.

538 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:35:58pm

re: #513 OldLineTexan

Hulu has four episodes from Season 5, unless I screwed that up too.

As far as I can tell, Hulu never has more than a few episodes of the current season of any given show.

Must be in the agreements they sign with the producers. So as not to cut into the DVD sales, no doubt.

539 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:36:21pm

re: #530 jaunte

He may actually be Jefferson Davis.

Helen knows...

540 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:36:21pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

At some point it will happen, sure. But don't look for it any time soon.

In this I am a bit more optimistic, it seems.

Nice change from being labeled Mr. Pessimism all the time. ;)

541 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:36:37pm

re: #533 Sharmuta

I said it was the misogyny.

And you were right (as usual)

;-)

542 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:36:48pm

re: #529 Naso Tang

Smarter than many, but with a lot of suspect baggage in my mind; but I know too much about his "fathers" that he will always support. Call me prejudiced. I suppose I am in some cases.

OK, I'm outside that loop so I'm not very familiar with it. I have slight interactions with some of the Elders that I run into from time to time and they always seem nice.

543 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:36:54pm

re: #538 Cato the Elder

As far as I can tell, Hulu never has more than a few episodes of the current season of any given show.

Must be in the agreements they sign with the producers. So as not to cut into the DVD sales, no doubt.

Was that sarcasm? :)

544 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:36:57pm

re: #530 jaunte

He may actually be Jefferson Davis.

He looks kind of like Richard Alpert, come to think of it...

545 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:37:16pm

re: #532 Walter L. Newton

Obama's minister and his church are working for the right? Did you win the stupid race again tonight?

Methinks he is angling for the lifetime achievement award.

546 simonml  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:37:29pm

re: #537 avanti

I could drag out a much of Bush'isms, but that would not be fair to either Bush or BHO, they both misspoke on occasion, and caught hell for it. Those are slips of the tongue, flying AF 1 at low altitude in NYC was a fuck up, there is a differance.

That's a very common argument in the past year. Sadly, none of us voted for Bush in this past election. MAINLY BECAUSE HE DIDN'T RUN! Some people just can't get this through their heads.

Its apples and oranges with some people and they always claim their apples are relevant to the argument

547 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:38:02pm

re: #536 Sharmuta

Misogyny is the hatred of women. That doesn't mean the hatred only comes from men.

Understood. But as a female, were you puzzled/pissed/concerned by the fact that the worst misogyny came from the likes of Katie Couric, Campbell Brown , and 3 of the 4 members of The View?

548 hazzyday  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:38:02pm

I still like Palin. The evangelical society though has to wake up and smell the coffee. The ones in the GoP need to move forward in it in an inclusive compromising manner. Single issue abortion voters are useless voters. As long as they are holier than thou and there exists a group of people trying to alter science they are on the losing side. If they can't be honest and tolerant all the things they don't want will come to their doorsteps.

The GoP needs to be sensationalizing Media Bias, Democrat corruption, the value of liberty and freedom in a way that resonates with people. They shouldn't go on a TV interview without a bias story they can shellac the interviewer with. They also need to clean house. If a person is a pedophile they shouldn't be running for a GoP office. If they favor big business over the everyday person they shouldn't be running for a GoP seat.

What is the deal when Rudy is castigated in the media for his personal life and mistakes and John Edwards basically getting a pass. Edwards could probably still run for president on a dem ticket. He just has to do a few mea culpas. Rudy would be tarred and feathered in the media and by his own party for things that happened years ago. It's a perverse way to run the GoP. The GOP needs to push back against these value checks that are useless.

549 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:38:04pm

re: #519 SasquatchOnSteroids

Reverend Wright's a REPUBLICAN ?!

Shit, where's my registration card !

RIIIPPP.

OK, the right has the white evangelical churches sewn up, but I think you knew that was my intent.

550 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:38:13pm

re: #530 jaunte

He may actually be Jefferson Davis.

He just may be.

551 MrPaulRevere  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:38:16pm

Tony Perkins, the pied piper of center-right electoral doom is shooting his mouth off again..."Too many Republicans leaders are running scared on the claims of the Left and the media that social conservatism is a dead-end for the GOP. If that were the case, why are pro-family leaders like Mike Huckabee creating such excitement in the conservative base?" Not only is Tony Perkins a gangster, he's stupid gangster.

552 meh130  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:38:28pm

re: #375 ShanghaiEd

The "I can see Russia from my house" line has always seemed a red herring to me. I knew that was a joke from Saturday Night Live, but what Palin actually said was "You can see Russia from Alaska"...as a response to a question about her experience with foreign policy(?!). How is her real response any less ridiculous than the fake one?

Meanwhile, the Alaska National Guard:

Operates the only ballistic missile defense system based on American soil (Alaska Guardsmen Serve on Front Line of U.S. Missile Defense), provides the American staff for the NORAD control center which is responsible for the aerial defense of Alaska (176th Air Control Squadron). And of course, went to Afghanistan (Guard soldiers return to praise).

Palin should have brought this stuff up. I have no idea why she did not. Of course, if it were a Democrat, the press would have offered these examples to the candidate for comment.

I saw Maria Bartiromo's CNBC interview with Palin which was recorded prior to her being selected as McCain's VP, and watching how deftly Palin spoke to energy and oil was impressive. She came across as the epitome of a Goldwater western state libertarian Republican.

The bumbling Palin of the campaign was purely the fault of Palin. But the three-headed, Neanderthal, backwoods rube, terrible monster, freakshow was an invention of the leftist media.

553 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:39:16pm

Signing off. Goodnight.

554 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:39:33pm

re: #541 Racer X

Let's see- Sarah was objectified, belittled, slandered, and controlled.

What else?

555 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:39:53pm

re: #543 Walter L. Newton

Was that sarcasm? :)

Now, Walter! Would I be sarcastic about a marketing strategy?

556 Shug  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:39:57pm

re: #537 avanti

I could drag out a much of Bush'isms, but that would not be fair to either Bush or BHO, they both misspoke on occasion, and caught hell for it. Those are slips of the tongue, flying AF 1 at low altitude in NYC was a fuck up, there is a differance.

the only difference is that GWB was billed as an idiot and BHO is billed as the greatest orator in the history of the world.

557 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:40:37pm

re: #549 avanti

OK, the right has the white evangelical churches sewn up, but I think you knew that was my intent.


I'm trying to figure out what you meant when you said "the press has the MSM." For the most part, the press IS the MSM.

558 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:40:48pm

re: #549 avanti

You haven't a clue what I know and don't know.

559 hazzyday  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:40:57pm

re: #537 avanti

Except that Obama doesn't catch hell for these things. They are just politely chuckled over with the news reader saying "Oh that Obama, how cute and amusing" The tone is quite different. emotional agenda that precludes any sort of wisdom.

560 avanti  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:41:02pm

re: #528 FurryOldGuyJeans

avanti can be just so full of shit, the utter lies he spews near constantly.

OK, I can tell the friendly discussion is over and I'll leave you for the evening. Night all, Walter, stay healthy. We seldom agree, but you keep me hopping.

561 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:41:35pm

re: #508 Sharmuta
Hey Sharm!

I don't believe a woman can win in such an environment. I believe this last campaign will have a chilling effect on women even considering politics.

I agree with you if you mean national office, but there are Women who are governors and Senators (not to mention members of the House of Representatives) but I think Hillary and Palin show two different reasons why.
I think Palin was a victim of both the MSM being afraid of what she'd bring to McCain's campaign and thereby sought to vilify her every statement and dig into her personal life and beliefs the way I wished they'd dug into Obama's. And at the risk of pissing off my friend Cato the Elder, I liked Palin as a VP candidate; she clearly had the most experience in actually governing - doing things like preparing/approving budgets/where to get the money needed for the budgets and making sure Alaska ran pretty well as a State. Indeed, in the actual governmental experience department, she had more than Obama, McCain and Biden combined.

But Hillary was somewhat different. IIRC, she either won a very slim majority of the total Dem primary votes or lost by a very slim majority of said votes and she won the popular vote in every major electoral state except Illinois;she got clobbered by the Dem's Super delegates, some I'm sure who thought Obama was a better candidate, some who just disliked her and/or her husband but quite a few because she was a woman who had dared to try to intrude on what has been a solely male governmental office since the founding of the Republic.
I think it will be VERY HARD for any woman to run for President as the nominee of either party and frankly don't expect to see a Woman run for President for a long time, if ever.

562 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:41:49pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

Let's see- Sarah was objectified, belittled, slandered, and controlled.

What else?

Impersonated, defiled, defamed, mocked...

563 Randall Gross  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:42:16pm

Time for me to get some sleeps, a snippett of a tale of an early martyr from Aeschylus:

For boons bestowed
On mortal men I am straitened in these bonds.
I sought the fount of fire in hollow reed
Hid privily, a measureless resource
For man, and mighty teacher of all arts.
This is the crime that I must expiate
Hung here in chains, nailed 'neath the open sky. Ha! Ha!
What echo, what odour floats by with no sound?
God-wafted or mortal or mingled its strain?
Comes there one to this world's end, this mountain-girt ground,
To have sight of my torment? Or of what is he fain?
A God ye behold in bondage and pain,
The foe of Zeus and one at feud with all
The deities that find
Submissive entry to the tyrant's hall;
His fault, too great a love of humankind.
Ah me! Ah me! what wafture nigh at hand,
As of great birds of prey, is this I hear?
The bright air fanned
Whistles and shrills with rapid beat of wings.
There cometh nought but but to my spirit brings
Horror and fear.

- Prometheus Bound

564 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:44:02pm

re: #560 avanti

Damn, I haven't modified my tone of responses to you one whit, yet now you want to leave?

What a fucking pussy.

565 hazzyday  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:44:18pm

re: #556 Shug

the only difference is that GWB was billed as an idiot and BHO is billed as the greatest orator in the history of the world.

I've seen video of OBama bumbling speeches bad. Worse than GWB. Like he was in a haze. I think the difference here is that with GWB he was edited like Palin to look this way. And GWB has some class and perspective and thinks his work will pass all this by. With Pres Obama the embarrassing clips are not nationally broadcast with any sort of commentary. Even Gibbs is given a polite break.

566 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:45:08pm

re: #511 avanti
"The right has the churches locked up, the press has the MSM."
The "press"? I think you mean the Left has the MSM.

567 jorline  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:46:05pm

Hawaii Lawmakers Pass Bill to Create 'Islam Day'

The resolution to proclaim Sept. 24, 2009, as Islam Day passed the Senate on a 22-3 vote. It had previously passed the House and now goes to Republican Gov. Linda Lingle.

The bill seeks to recognize "the rich religious, scientific, cultural and artistic contributions" that Islam and the Islamic world have made. It does not call for any spending or organized celebration of Islam Day.

"We are a state of tolerance. We understand that people have different beliefs," said Sen. Will Espero, a Democrat. "We may not all agree on every single item and issue out there, but to say and highlight the negativity of the Islamic people is an insult to the majority" of believers "who are good law-abiding citizens of the world."

Tourist dollars are hard to come by now days...smooth move exlax.

568 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:46:12pm

re: #565 hazzyday

I've seen video of OBama bumbling speeches bad. Worse than GWB. Like he was in a haze. I think the difference here is that with GWB he was edited like Palin to look this way. And GWB has some class and perspective and thinks his work will pass all this by. With Pres Obama the embarrassing clips are not nationally broadcast with any sort of commentary. Even Gibbs is given a polite break.

It's still rather early in his term. There should be plenty of "ums and ahs" to come I'm sure including a great deal of teleprompter malfunctions.

569 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:46:43pm

re: #547 _RememberTonyC

Understood. But as a female, were you puzzled/pissed/concerned by the fact that the worst misogyny came from the likes of Katie Couric, Campbell Brown , and 3 of the 4 members of The View?

Pissed? No, in that I had already read Dr. Phyllis Chesler's book Woman's Inhumanity to Woman, which details this phenomenon. Quite enlightening and difficult as a woman to read, as all women can see themselves as both a victim of it, as well as a perpetrator of it.

But yes, in that it pissed me off, but also saddened me. We've come a long way, but this is the sort of misogyny that feminism was supposed to deal with. Instead- the movement was hijacked for other purposes. But this is deeply, deeply embedded in the female psyche. Girls will start showing female misogynistic traits as early as 5 years old. It will take a very long time for us to evolve out of these behaviors.

570 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:47:17pm

re: #568 Gus 802

It's still rather early in his term. There should be plenty of "ums and ahs" to come I'm sure including a great deal of teleprompter malfunctions.

Waving his hand at the damn thing last week, like he was a jedi, that was sad.

571 hazzyday  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:47:19pm

re: #552 meh130

Palin was being packaged by the McCain campaign. She couldn't be herself. Subsequently McCain has failed to be a good mentor and gentlemen. Although I like him a lot. He might be these things but he is not getting them across in the media.

572 altermite  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:47:25pm

huh. Would anyone be willing to send me the main set of references about the court case, etc that rule dthat ID was a form of creationism?

I feel like writing a crap ton of letters to local congresspeople and newspeople this summer.

573 funky chicken  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:47:56pm

re: #363 Last Mohican

South Carolina League of the South

redundant racists?

574 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:48:27pm

re: #572 altermite

huh. Would anyone be willing to send me the main set of references about the court case, etc that rule dthat ID was a form of creationism?

I feel like writing a crap ton of letters to local congresspeople and newspeople this summer.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

575 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:48:33pm

re: #570 SasquatchOnSteroids

Waving his hand at the damn thing last week, like he was a jedi, that was sad.

Did it look like taekwondo or like he was trying to catch a fly?

/

576 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:49:24pm

re: #572 altermite

huh. Would anyone be willing to send me the main set of references about the court case, etc that rule dthat ID was a form of creationism?

I feel like writing a crap ton of letters to local congresspeople and newspeople this summer.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

577 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:49:46pm

re: #575 Gus 802

Did it look like taekwondo or like he was trying to catch a fly?

/

I was waiting for him to say "You don't want to sell me death sticks. You want to go home and rethink your life."

heh.

578 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:50:17pm

re: #571 hazzyday

Palin was being packaged by the McCain campaign. She couldn't be herself. Subsequently McCain has failed to be a good mentor and gentlemen. Although I like him a lot. He might be these things but he is not getting them across in the media.

The media is only favorable to McCain when he is being a maverick shitting on the party of which he is nominally a member.

579 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:50:31pm

re: #572 altermite

This is a good summary of the action of the trial, too:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

580 funky chicken  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:50:41pm

re: #375 ShanghaiEd

The "I can see Russia from my house" line has always seemed a red herring to me. I knew that was a joke from Saturday Night Live, but what Palin actually said was "You can see Russia from Alaska"...as a response to a question about her experience with foreign policy(?!). How is her real response any less ridiculous than the fake one?

I was shocked by her poor performance in interviews, because she has an impressive resume, and has accomplished things in Alaska that prior governors couldn't get done, and she's been battling powerful, corrupt pols from both parties simultaneously. That indicates competence, but I have to admit that her interview performance was poor.

581 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:51:19pm

re: #569 Sharmuta

Pissed? No, in that I had already read Dr. Phyllis Chesler's book Woman's Inhumanity to Woman, which details this phenomenon. Quite enlightening and difficult as a woman to read, as all women can see themselves as both a victim of it, as well as a perpetrator of it.

But yes, in that it pissed me off, but also saddened me. We've come a long way, but this is the sort of misogyny that feminism was supposed to deal with. Instead- the movement was hijacked for other purposes. But this is deeply, deeply embedded in the female psyche. Girls will start showing female misogynistic traits as early as 5 years old. It will take a very long time for us to evolve out of these behaviors.


I always appreciate your thoughtful responses. I work in a large company with many female bosses and found that many are fairer to their male subordinates than they are to their female subordinates. It's almost like when some women get to a certain level, they want to maintain their superiority over other women instead of mentoring the younger women.

582 KingKenrod  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:51:34pm

I don't see religious conservatives generally coming around to an evolution positive viewpoint in the foreseeable future. Polls show the skepticism of evolution is too widely held, and changing those kinds of deeply held beliefs that are rooted in religion takes generations. If ever.

The best solution would be for the issue to get taken off the table. Sure, people can continue to believe whatever they want, but when it comes to public policy, ID has to be a non-starter, and that can only happen through ID being defeated soundly in the courts - the Supreme Court - just like explicit creationism was in Edwards v. Aguillard. The Dover case is an example of this type of decision, but it is only a lower court decision that dead ended.

And as long as dopes like Chris Matthews get to run the national debate, ID is never going to get exposed as the calculated fraud it is.

583 Gus  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:51:46pm

re: #577 SasquatchOnSteroids

I was waiting for him to say "You don't want to sell me death sticks. You want to go home and rethink your life."

heh.

It's coming! Can't wait.

584 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:52:06pm

re: #572 altermite

[Link: en.wikisource.org...]

585 BignJames  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:53:11pm

re: #573 funky chicken

South Carolina League of the South

redundant racists?


Say what?

586 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:53:37pm

re: #580 funky chicken

I'm not convinced that a good interview performance selects what we need in political representation. It may be leading us to the American Idol form of political leadership.

587 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:54:36pm

re: #580 funky chicken

I was shocked by her poor performance in interviews, because she has an impressive resume, and has accomplished things in Alaska that prior governors couldn't get done, and she's been battling powerful, corrupt pols from both parties simultaneously. That indicates competence, but I have to admit that her interview performance was poor.


her "sing-song" vocal patterns and her pulchritude worked against her. the combination of those two things made it easy to portray her as a bimbo.

588 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:54:37pm

re: #580 funky chicken

I was shocked by her poor performance in interviews, because she has an impressive resume, and has accomplished things in Alaska that prior governors couldn't get done, and she's been battling powerful, corrupt pols from both parties simultaneously. That indicates competence, but I have to admit that her interview performance was poor.

Just my opinion, but I believe she was given a script to follow she was not allowed to deviate from in the slightest. Her poor performance was remarkably McCainesque. At least she never became an active booster for Biden, unlike McCain did for Obama.

589 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:55:24pm

re: #581 _RememberTonyC

Jaunte picked up that book- but I don't know yet what he thought of it. I do recommend it to both women and men who want to understand this issue better.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

590 _RememberTonyC  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:56:47pm

re: #589 Sharmuta


Thanks Sharm ... I'll look for it at my local library.

591 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:57:01pm

re: #589 Sharmuta

I'm not finished with it yet, but it has provided a lot of fodder for discussion around the office.

592 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:57:32pm

re: #582 KingKenrod

It's on the table for the very reason the far-right fringe keep putting it on. They would rather continue losing elections and forgoing their principles because they are unwilling to accept less than 100% compliance with their agenda.

593 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:57:36pm

McCain / Pailin lost.

I've gotten over it.

The current administration is printing dollars faster than the Russian Mafia. They're eying my wallet like a punk in Times Square. They're spending money they do not have like a newly elected politician.

My unborn grandkids are now in debt.

But hey, pay no mind to that. Worry about Swine Flu!

594 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:58:00pm

re: #548 hazzyday
Actually hazzyday, I think both the GOP's voters, Dem voters and Independent voters ALL need to stop being single issue voters, especially in Presidential races.
Yes I do think that ID and YEC are single issue voters and suspect most of the "religious right" consists of folks who will only obtain the status of "religious" in their minds (e.g., Huckabee). But someone should probably have "come to Jesus" meeting with the Religious Right and say HEY! There are people in Iran, Russia, and other places that want to KILL the United States. Do you really think that by voting for the most religiously qualified man, that man would necessarily be the most qualified to deal with those enemies of the United States? Or to help "fix" the U.S. economy? Y'all have to broaden your horizons some when you consider who to vote for.
But single issue votes on the LEFT really need to have a "Come to Saul Alinsky" meeting too - and asked the same types of questions.
And, needless to say, they should all be asked: How well do you think you'll do under an Islamic Theocracy or a Dictatorship or a Monarchy or the Criminals who seem to run Russia today?
Single issue voters are going to ruin our republican form of government.

595 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:58:45pm

re: #591 jaunte

I'm not finished with it yet, but it has provided a lot of fodder for discussion around the office.

Heh. I bet.

596 Silvergirl  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:59:01pm

re: #512 _RememberTonyC

I think some of the worst misogyny that I have seen actually comes from other women.

Sad but true. Not all the worst by any means, but as you said, some.

597 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 9:59:44pm

re: #593 Racer X

McCain / Pailin lost.

I've gotten over it.

The current administration is printing dollars faster than the Russian Mafia. They're eying my wallet like a punk in Times Square. They're spending money they do not have like a newly elected politician.

My unborn grandkids are now in debt.

But hey, pay no mind to that. Worry about Swine Flu!

Where's Mandy to ask if certain people are fucking happy now?

598 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:00:39pm

re: #597 Sharmuta

Here she is:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

599 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:00:40pm

re: #596 Silvergirl

Sad but true. Not all the worst by any means, but as you said, some.

Men have fist fights, women have cat fights, and cat fights can get NASTY!

600 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:01:45pm

re: #597 Sharmuta

Where's Mandy to ask if certain people are fucking happy now?

She did it earlier; needs to be done again, though.

601 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:02:38pm

re: #567 jorlineHi jorline! Hope you're doing well today!
Uh, they really didn't have much choice there; there are SO MANY MUSLIMS living in Hawaii that they had to create that holdiay!
/

602 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:03:37pm

And guess what? Summer is almost here. I fully expect the Global Warming hysteria to reach a fever pitch around August. More so if there is some sort of debacle in the White House. It takes the pressure off and focuses it elsewhere.

Ozone Layer?

603 jaunte  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:04:13pm

Goodnight all.

When I woke up this morning my girlfriend asked me,
'Did you sleep good?'
I said 'No, I made a few mistakes.'

--- Steven Wright

604 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:04:34pm

re: #569 Sharmuta
Did y'all read my comment #561 and what did you think of it?

605 Salamantis  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:05:49pm

re: #58 HoosierHoops

Well the entire Universe has evolved..from the oldest star in the furthest galaxy to the smallest virus..The only thing in the Universe that doesn't evolve is Humans.. We are a super duper special species..
/

Actually stars don't evolve, they have life cycles. Stars don't fuck each other, share genetic material, and produce little stars that can possible contain mutations, nor are such non-existent offspring stars selected for destruction or retention by empty space based upon such nonexistent mutations.

606 Salamantis  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:07:51pm

re: #70 MandyManners

What kills me is that *I* KNOW HE IS NOT STUPID.

No, he is merely ignorsnt. Which is a sign of hope. Ignorance is curable, while denseness is permanent.

607 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:07:56pm

re: #604 realwest

There was nothing there to disagree with you about, but I stand by my comments. Both women were victims of misogyny, in different ways, but they both were victims nonetheless.

608 solomonpanting  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:08:10pm

re: #602 Racer X


Ozone Layer?

Close.
Ozone Lawyers.

609 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:11:06pm

re: #586 jaunte Hi ya juante! "I'm not convinced that a good interview performance selects what we need in political representation. It may be leading us to the American Idol form of political leadership."
I frankly don't see any "may" about it. This past presidential election had a LARGE quotient of American Idol form of politcal repesentation and leadership.

610 itellu3times  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:11:28pm

OT: Go Lakers!

611 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:12:40pm

re: #605 Salamantis

Stars don't fuck each other, share genetic material, and produce little stars that can possible contain mutations, nor are such non-existent offspring stars selected for destruction or retention by empty space based upon such nonexistent mutations.

Oh yeah? Explain George Clooney?

612 itellu3times  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:12:53pm

re: #580 funky chicken

I was shocked by her poor performance in interviews, because she has an impressive resume, and has accomplished things in Alaska that prior governors couldn't get done, and she's been battling powerful, corrupt pols from both parties simultaneously. That indicates competence, but I have to admit that her interview performance was poor.

It's part of the job.

613 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:13:58pm

I've got to say that I'm pretty surprised at how deep this ID/creationism thing is in the Republican Party. It really is an issue that will guarantee losing elections if it's widely embraced. Say what you will about Sean Hannity, but his "10 Items for Victory" makes a lot of sense:

1) To be the party of National security:
a) Victory in Iraq
b) Fully support NSA, Patriot act, tough interrogations, keeping Gitmo open
c) A Candidate that pledges to NOT demean our military while they are fighting for their Country. eg Harry Reid: "the surge has failed", "the war is lost"
d) Candidate that promises to ensure that our veterans can live out their lives in dignity.

2) The party who pledges to oppose Appeasement:
a) The party will oppose any and all efforts to negotiate with dictators of the world in places like Iran, Syria, N.Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela without "pre-conditions."

3) The party Pledges to support Tax CUTS, and fiscal responsibility:
a) The American people are NOT under taxed, Government Spends too much
b) The Candidate who Pledges to ELIMINATE and VOTE AGAINST ALL Earmarks
c) The Candidate pledges to BALANCE the budget

4) The party Pledges to be a supporter of "Energy Independence"
a) supports Immediate drilling in Anwar and the 48 states
b) Building new refineries
c) Begin building and using Nuclear Facilities
d) expand coal mining
e) realistic steward of the environment

While simultaneously working with private industry to develop the new energy technologies for the future, with the goal being that America becomes completely energy independent within the next 15 years.

5) The Candidate pledges to secure our borders completely within 12 months:
a) build all necessary fences
b) use all available technology to help and support agents at the border
c) train and hire agents as needed

614 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:14:33pm
6) Healthcare:
The party will look for Free-Market solutions to the problems facing the Healthcare industry, and will vigorously oppose any efforts to "nationalize healthcare".

a) The Candidate will fight for Individual health savings accounts, that includes "catastrophic insurance" for every American, so people can control their own healthcare choices.

7) Education:
a) The Candidate pledges to "save" American children from the failing educational system
b) The Candidate will fight to break the unholy alliance of the Democratic party and teachers unions, which at best has institutionalized mediocrity, and has failed children across the country
c) fight for "CHOICE" in education and let parents decide
d) fight for vouchers for parents

8) Social Security and Medicare:
a) The Candidate will "save" social security and medicare from bankruptcy.
b) Options will include "private retirement" funds so people can "control" their own destiny.

9) Judges
a) The Candidate vows to support ONLY judges who recognize that their job is to interpret the Constitution, and NOT legislate from the bench.

10) American Dream:
The Candidate accepts as their duty and responsibility to educate, inform, and remind people that with the blessings of Freedom comes a Great responsibility. That Government's primary goal is to preserve, protect and defend our God given gift of freedom.

That Governments do not have the ability to solve all of our problems, and to take away all of our fears and concerns. We need their pledge that we will be the candidate that promotes Individual liberty, Capitalism, a strong national defense and will support policies that encourage such...

It is our fundamental belief that limited Government, and Greater individual responsibility will insure the continued prosperity and success for future generations.

We the people who believe in the words of Ronald Reagan, that we are "the best last hope for man on this earth," "a shining city on a hill," and that our best days are before us if our Government will simply trust the American people.

615 jantjepietje  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:14:37pm

I don't think this is ignorance Matthews wants a senate seat in 2010 and he wants to be acceptable to Christian voters.

616 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:14:59pm

re: #611 Racer X

LMAO!

617 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:15:25pm

re: #609 realwest

Hi ya juante! "I'm not convinced that a good interview performance selects what we need in political representation. It may be leading us to the American Idol form of political leadership."
I frankly don't see any "may" about it. This past presidential election had a LARGE quotient of American Idol form of politcal repesentation and leadership.

It started with the 1960 election, style of over substance, since 1960 was the first election with televised debates.

618 Salamantis  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:20:47pm

re: #411 Sosigado

Now it's Tancredo. My, they're dropping like flies.

They're dropping themselves.

619 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:20:54pm

re: #611 Racer X

Oh yeah? Explain George Clooney?

I have my doubts anything could ever explain that.

620 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:22:22pm

A father entered his daughter’s bedroom and saw a letter on the bed. With the worst premonition he read it with trembling hands.

Dear Mum and Dad,

It is with great regret and sorrow that I’m telling you that I’ve eloped with my new boyfriend. I’ve found real love and he is so nice, especially with all his piercings, scars, tattoos, and his big motorcycle. But it is not only that, I’m pregnant and Ahmed said that we will be very happy in his trailer in the woods. He wants to have many more children with me and that is one of my dreams.

I’ve learned that marijuana doesn’t hurt anyone and we’ll be growing it for us and his friends. They’re the ones providing us with all the cocaine and ecstasy we could ever want.

In the meantime, we’ll pray for science to find the AIDS cure so Ahmed gets better. He deserves it. Don’t worry about money, Ahmed has arranged for me to be in films that his friends Leroy and Jamal make in their basement.

Apparently I can earn $50 a scene and I get a $50 bonus if there are more than three men in the scene, and an extra $100 if they use a horse. Don’t worry Mum, now I’m 15 years old I know how to take care of myself.

Someday I’ll visit you and Dad so that you can meet your grandchildren.

Your loving daughter, Aimee

P.S. Dad, it’s not true, I’m at a neighbours house. I just wanted to show you that there are worse things in life than denting the car. Sorry about your BMW.

621 capitalist piglet  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:24:03pm

re: #611 Racer X

Oh yeah? Explain George Clooney?

And Laura Dern!

622 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:24:27pm

re: #619 FurryOldGuyJeans

Rosemary's baby?

623 itellu3times  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:24:28pm

re: #613 SeafoodGumbo

I don't like these. Let me offer alternatives.

1) To be the party of National security:
Make the argument that we are a nation and deserve security.
All the rest follows.

2) The party who pledges to oppose Appeasement:
Let's talk to everyone, bluntly.

3) The party Pledges to support Tax CUTS, and fiscal responsibility:
I suggest some variety of "flat tax".

4) The party Pledges to be a supporter of "Energy Independence"
Yes. GWB's greatest failure was not leaping on this three years ago.

5) The Candidate pledges to secure our borders completely within 12 months.
Follows from #1.

6) Healthcare:
Sorry, but MUST support nationalized healthcare, with as much free-market support as can also be done.

7) Education:
Not a federal issue, but generally support it, of course.

8) Social Security and Medicare:
Save it, yes. Not with private accounts. Expand private accounts OUTSIDE of SSN, sure.

9) Judges
a) The Candidate vows to support ONLY judges who recognize that their job is to interpret the Constitution, and NOT legislate from the bench.
Yes! But say why, talk about the rule of law.

10) American Dream:
The Candidate accepts as their duty and responsibility to educate, inform, and remind people that with the blessings of Freedom comes a Great responsibility. That Government's primary goal is to preserve, protect and defend our God given gift of freedom.
Yes, this is more important than ever. Doesn't have to be the candidate him/herself, of course, but surrogates, staff, etc.

624 Silvergirl  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:28:16pm

Up above somewhere Mandy mentioned Jon Huntsman which made me think of this that I had read earlier and just found again. McCain's former campaign adviser is now informally advising Huntsman.

625 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:28:51pm

re: #617 FurryOldGuyJeans
Yep, I agree with that. I remember a" Post-Mortem" of the 1960 election paper I had to do for my Poly-Sci honors class about it.
My recollection is that Nixon performed as if he were in a debate, asked JFK questions, responded to JFK's questions and statements, all the while looking at JFK.
JFK, OTOH, talked to the American People through the lens of the TV camera - I don't think he so much as glanced at Nixon. Finding that rather curious I did research which revealed the JFK was perceived by Dems and quite a few Independents, as a "charismatic, good looking guy" and I have NO DOUBT at all that style won out over substance in the Debates. And for a lot of the campaign, but in 1960 Nixon wasn't HATED the way he became hated by the MSM and we had REAL JOURNALISTS around who would push Kennedy on his stump speeches.
And, of course, it was Joe Kennedy's money and Richard Daley the First who turned that election into a victory for JFK.

626 Cheechako  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:29:13pm

Well, it looks like Gov. Palin will be staying home for 2010. She'll probably run for a 2nd term as Governor that year. She has announced she will support Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) for re-election to the Senate in 2010.

Right now she's busy fighting off ethics complaints such as the one that complained she wore a jacket with the logo of her husband's sno-machine sponsor. She's set up a legal defense fund as her personal cost of defending against these complaints is getting into 6 figures. IIRC, the defense fund will accept only donations from Alaskans and is limited to $150 per person and no business donations.

So, the latest ethics complaint is that she should not be allowed to set up a legal defense fund to defend herself from ethics complaints! She just can't win.

627 [deleted]  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:30:15pm
628 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:30:52pm

Whew!

Lakers, baby!

629 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:31:27pm

re: #623 itellu3times

It seems like you agree with the majority of his points. The main issue is that you can craft a "Top 10" list of what the Republicans should be talking about that doesn't involve anything having to do with religion or social issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc.).

630 Racer X  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:32:02pm

re: #623 itellu3times

Why nationalize health care? The government can barely deliver the mail properly.

631 idioma  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:32:15pm

re: #37 nonic

The theory of evolution is not an all-inclusive explanation for the origin of life itself, it is merely an established fact - over a long enough period of time, the environment selects mutations which favor reproduction.

Evolution explains why there is a great diversity of species on this planet, and the mechanisms (mutation, environment, means of duplication, isolation of groups, etc.) which drive it.

If you believe that aliens, flying spaghetti monsters, god, or invisible pink unicorns used their powers to somehow "jump-start" life from inorganic matter, evolution would still be just as true as it would be in assuming that given the shear complexity of the environment that life began as a chaotic event of favorable conditions to proto-life.

Belief in god does not exclude believing in scientific principles, except when one takes scripture to be the literal word of god - which is just silly.

632 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:35:10pm

re: #623 itellu3times
I have to say that was a thought provoking comment and I'll probably need to read it again tomorrow when I'm not so tired!
But as to your #6 Nationalized Health Care - it just isn't gonna work; it hasn't worked in any of the countries that have it. The true stories LGFers (and my other friends) who live in GB and Canada for example, lead me to believe that National Health-care is going to ultimately fuck us all up. Even with "some" Private Health Insurance".
I don't know why folks (and I'm not directing this at YOU!) don't understand that Socialism has never been a successful form of government (nor has socialized medicine or economics) anywhere.

633 Silvergirl  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:38:10pm

re: #629 SeafoodGumbo

It seems like you agree with the majority of his points. The main issue is that you can craft a "Top 10" list of what the Republicans should be talking about that doesn't involve anything having to do with religion or social issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc.).

Can and should. More of it.

634 realwest  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:39:31pm

Well y'all I'm tired and need to go to sleep now. I hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

635 Opilio  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:44:58pm

...tap ...tap Is this thing on?

636 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:47:17pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

As someone who plays a misogynistic arse on the interwebs, but in the meat-world is actually a pretty decent guy, I wish I could prove you wrong.

Alas, I cannot.

637 NY Nana  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:47:44pm

G'nite, all. I actually am really, really going to go to sleep, and be in bed at 2 AM...a day that will live in history! ;)

Sweet dreams, Lizards, but I really must be going.

638 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, May 6, 2009 10:49:30pm

re: #637 NY Nana

'Nite. ;-)

639 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:04:56pm

re: #637 NY Nana

Nana, I hope you are still awake to see my upding for the Marx Brothers. Good night.

640 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:06:28pm

re: #635 Opilio

...tap ...tap Is this thing on?

Car 54, where ARE you. LOL

I am going to bed too.

641 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:12:27pm

re: #640 Pvt Bin Jammin

Good NIght.

There's a hold up in the Bronx,
Brooklyn's broken out in fights.
There's a traffic jam in Harlem
That's backed up to Jackson Heights.
There's a scout troup short a child,
Kruschev's due at Idlewild
Car 54, Where Are You?

642 Sharmuta  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:15:27pm

re: #636 Slumbering Behemoth

Aww- don't worry about it, {Sleepy B}. It's a deeper issue than any of us can solve.

643 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:15:46pm

re: #641 BatGuano

You've got the whole thing going on. Love it. I am definitely dating myself.

See ya manana.

644 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:15:49pm

Ugh! Appearing in a city (not so) nearby, IT will be speaking. :sigh:

Gotta love the typo, though.

Huckabee will be speaking at events at the Visalia Convention Center on Wednesday and Thursday and is hosing a dinner and book signing on Wednesday at 6:30 PM. Tickets are $250 per person.

645 BatGuano  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:17:22pm

re: #643 Pvt Bin Jammin

Good night. That is from my Childhood: Tootie and Muldoon.

646 itellu3times  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:24:26pm

re: #630 Racer X

Why nationalize health care? The government can barely deliver the mail properly.

But the government does deliver the mail, because it's a natural monopoly.

I suggest the same is true of medical care, and the current system is perverse and in need of serious improvement.

Most of all, because we can. The bipartisan will was there for it since 1992, when Hillary mucked it up. SEVENTEEN years later, it's past time.

647 BignJames  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:31:40pm

re: #645 BatGuano

Good night. That is from my Childhood: Tootie and Muldoon.

Gunther and Francis.

648 freetoken  Wed, May 6, 2009 11:39:33pm

re: #487 NJDhockeyfan

Looks like Tancredo is also an anti-vaxer...

You win today's Gold Star!

/Awarded non-periodically (at the discretion of the nominations committee) to the person who demonstrates outstanding research or insight.

649 Salamantis  Thu, May 7, 2009 12:14:54am

re: #643 Pvt Bin Jammin

You've got the whole thing going on. Love it. I am definitely dating myself.

See ya manana.

TMI on your self-dating habits!

650 SixDegrees  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:12:22am

re: #646 itellu3times

But the government does deliver the mail, because it's a natural monopoly.

I suggest the same is true of medical care, and the current system is perverse and in need of serious improvement.

Most of all, because we can. The bipartisan will was there for it since 1992, when Hillary mucked it up. SEVENTEEN years later, it's past time.


For an accurate preview of what government run healthcare will be like, simply visit it's current example - any VA hospital. Multiply the shortcomings you find by the size ratio between those served by the VA and the US population - at least an order of magnitude, and more realistically two orders.

Metrics for success? "Fewer toes gnawed off by rats than last year."

Golly. I can hardly wait.

651 Kozak  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:20:17am

Remember, you can't spell Creationist without C-r-e-t-i-n...

652 [deleted]  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:31:32am
653 freetoken  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:41:17am

re: #652 Sandman_In_OC

Which part of:

[...]but the surprising thing is that Matthews comes off as only slightly less ignorant than Tancredo [...]

wasn't clear?

654 Gitarzan  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:42:49am

re: #652 Sandman_In_OC

Alright, Mr. Nine Posts, you think you get can do better than Charles?

Start your own blog and stop pissing in Charles' punch bowl, you twerp...

655 [deleted]  Thu, May 7, 2009 2:52:50am
656 crimeshark  Thu, May 7, 2009 4:44:09am
Matthews comes off as only slightly less ignorant than Tancredo, agreeing with him that “intelligent design” is a valid scientific theory and nodding along as Tancredo advocates teaching it to children.

Now, Charles- I am surprised at you. Your writing usually so much better than this. Didn't anyone ever teach you that the words "Matthews" and "ignorant" are redundant?

657 nonic  Thu, May 7, 2009 5:51:47am

re: #631 idioma

The theory of evolution is not an all-inclusive explanation for the origin of life itself, it is merely an established fact - over a long enough period of time, the environment selects mutations which favor reproduction.

Evolution explains why there is a great diversity of species on this planet, and the mechanisms (mutation, environment, means of duplication, isolation of groups, etc.) which drive it.

If you believe that aliens, flying spaghetti monsters, god, or invisible pink unicorns used their powers to somehow "jump-start" life from inorganic matter, evolution would still be just as true as it would be in assuming that given the shear complexity of the environment that life began as a chaotic event of favorable conditions to proto-life.

Belief in god does not exclude believing in scientific principles, except when one takes scripture to be the literal word of god - which is just silly.

First, thank you for an actual response. I hope you see this.

So, then, as I understand your response, it is the term itself "intelligent design" that has a restricted meaning. And as I understand what you're saying, the anti-ID position restricts the term ID to mean only the variety and complexity of life on Earth. In that sense, then, the anti-ID position puts "ID" in direct and limited opposition to "evolution."

Okay. But that is not, most certainly, what many people who will allow for the possibility of ID mean by the term.

Many (even religious) people accept evolution as the means and method by which life forms were differentiated and developed. But they also beleve that when you go back far enough, when science no longer has any answers to the questions posed, THEN there is the POSSIBILITY that an "intelligent designer" began the process.

Of course, that may be your position. You may not be telling me what the anti-ID position is at all. Which is fine, although I was hoping that someone fully committed to anti-ID would respond.

I think this may be the problem Melanie Phillips sees --- that the concept of ID does not in any way negate evolution, or science for that matter. While creatiionism, as she understands it, DOES.

The question nagging in the back of my mind is this: if someone or some group (such as the anti-ID position) are absolutely committed to NO GOD and NO RELIGION in their understanding of the universe and of life, would that postiion accept a non-god, scientific (observable, measurable, testable) "creator"?

Maybe what I need to do is poke around on some hard-line atheist sites and see if they offer any idea of where they think everything, matter and life, came from originally.

Anyway, thanks for a response. :-)

658 zelnaga  Thu, May 7, 2009 6:27:52am

re: #630 Racer X

Why nationalize health care? The government can barely deliver the mail properly.

What's wrong with the USPS? I, personally, think they're amazing. Better than UPS and much better than FedEx.

Imagine Netflix with the UPS. For me, that'd mean that they'd drop DVDs off at my appartment office since I'd be at work. By the time I get home, however, the office would be closed and so I'd have to pick them up in the morning and watch them one-day late.

FedEx would be worse. They'd put a slip on my door saying that they'll hand deliver again tomorrow and the day after and that if I'm not here at either of those times that I'll need to pick the DVDs up from their extremely inconvenient shipping center. At that point, however, I might as well just go to Blockbuster. Taking half a day off every day so that I might be at my place when FedEx delivers is just not feasible.

Shipping stuff back isn't so bad - I can just drop stuff off at the local PostNet. But, all in all, compared to UPS and FedEx, USPS is a god send.

659 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Thu, May 7, 2009 6:54:19am

Are there any wheels left to come off this wagon?

660 freetoken  Thu, May 7, 2009 6:57:36am

re: #657 nonic


So, then, as I understand your response, it is the term itself "intelligent design" that has a restricted meaning.

ID is most commonly defined by the organization that pushes it the most - the Discovery Institute (DI).

This is not a matter of semantics.

Oh, and Ms. Phillips has on record changed her tune about what ID and creationism means... and now she is in lock step with the DI, even using their terminology.

You've been around here long enough to know this stuff... but you are acting like it is all some undiscovered country.

661 pjaicomo  Thu, May 7, 2009 6:58:11am

re: #658 zelnaga

What's wrong with the USPS? I, personally, think they're amazing. Better than UPS and much better than FedEx.

Imagine Netflix with the UPS. For me, that'd mean that they'd drop DVDs off at my appartment office since I'd be at work. By the time I get home, however, the office would be closed and so I'd have to pick them up in the morning and watch them one-day late.

FedEx would be worse. They'd put a slip on my door saying that they'll hand deliver again tomorrow and the day after and that if I'm not here at either of those times that I'll need to pick the DVDs up from their extremely inconvenient shipping center. At that point, however, I might as well just go to Blockbuster. Taking half a day off every day so that I might be at my place when FedEx delivers is just not feasible.

Shipping stuff back isn't so bad - I can just drop stuff off at the local PostNet. But, all in all, compared to UPS and FedEx, USPS is a god send.

Shipping nearly valueless DVDs is one thing, if you think USPS is "amazing," you are nuts. Try shipping something large enough it needs to hands to hold and see what happens.

662 Baier  Thu, May 7, 2009 7:32:54am

re: #661 pjaicomo

Shipping nearly valueless DVDs is one thing, if you think USPS is "amazing," you are nuts. Try shipping something large enough it needs to hands to hold and see what happens.

USPS is a form of welfare. Too many people doing nothing, too few working their butts off...

663 hokiepride  Thu, May 7, 2009 7:42:08am

Oh boy,
Tom "Miami a turd world country" Tancredo supporting ID. Color me surprised..NOT. It is pathetic that this dweeb thought that he could come anywhere close to being POTUS.

664 zelnaga  Thu, May 7, 2009 9:00:40am

re: #661 pjaicomo

Shipping nearly valueless DVDs is one thing, if you think USPS is "amazing," you are nuts. Try shipping something large enough it needs to hands to hold and see what happens.

I will concede the point for large items (not that I have a lot of experience with large items). That said, large does not necessarily mean expensive. Coins can be quite expensive and yet quite small. And 40" CRT-based TVs, though large, are probably not all that expensive (well, maybe ~$300.00 on craigslist).

665 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Thu, May 7, 2009 9:47:55am

Every life form is a transitional form. Every one.

666 Jim D  Thu, May 7, 2009 10:01:34am

re: #657 nonic


Many (even religious) people accept evolution as the means and method by which life forms were differentiated and developed. But they also beleve that when you go back far enough, when science no longer has any answers to the questions posed, THEN there is the POSSIBILITY that an "intelligent designer" began the process.

This is precisely what drives me crazy about ID. At what point do you decide that science can't possibly explain anything more? ID tells us that 'We can't possibly understand this, so let's give up and call it magic. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.'

667 [deleted]  Thu, May 7, 2009 10:31:02am
668 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 7, 2009 10:57:19am

Comments that tell me what I should and shouldn't post at LGF will be deleted. If they continue, accounts will be blocked.

669 hellosnackbar  Thu, May 7, 2009 11:01:11am

Here we go again:
I'm not a scientist,I'm not a theologian...I'm just a half witted vote whoring dunce.
Reminds me of the wise words of my all time favourite American H.L.Mencken "A politician is someone who sits on the fence with his ear to the ground on both sides".
If this Tancredo bloke is an example of a GOP front runner; then the US is
in as perilous a state as we are in GB ;with the mealy mouthed, vote whoring. cultural equivalence twats that masquerade as politicians here.

670 Crusader Rabbit  Thu, May 7, 2009 11:10:52am
but the surprising thing is that Matthews comes off as only slightly less ignorant than Tancredo

I'm never surprised when Matthews shows himself to be ignorant, nor wretched, nor an ignorant wretch.

671 nonic  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:32:43pm

re: #660 freetoken

You've been around here long enough to know this stuff... but you are acting like it is all some undiscovered country.

It IS new to me, because although I've been here quite a long time, I've almost never read the evolution-creationism-ID threads, as not being of any particular interest to me.

It still isn't. I'm just curious what people mean by their terms.

I've lived a long life understanding that people who believe the story of Genesis is literal truth are entirely separate from people who are totally at ease with all the findings of science but believe that at the very beginning some kind of intelligence must have started the whole thing.

Actually, I think my understanding (described directly above) was a preety generalized belief throughout society. Why that's changed, I don't know.

672 nonic  Thu, May 7, 2009 1:40:15pm

re: #666 Jim D

This is precisely what drives me crazy about ID. At what point do you decide that science can't possibly explain anything more? ID tells us that 'We can't possibly understand this, so let's give up and call it magic. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.'

I have no idea what any organized camp (Discovery institute?, whatever that is?) says. But it shouldn't be so difficult to underestand that science can never answer the question WHY.

WHY is a philosophical question. Always has been, always will be.

What, how, where, when are all the province of science. But never why.


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