Krauthammer: The Hamas 'Peace' Gambit

Krauthammer: The Hamas ‘Peace’ Gambit

Middle EastMay 2009 • Views: 3,369

Charles Krauthammer knows what’s behind Hamas’ latest phony offer of a temporary truce: The Hamas ‘Peace’ Gambit.

WASHINGTON — The Times conducted a five-hour interview with Hamas leader Khaled Meshal at his Damascus headquarters. Mirabile dictu, they’re offering a peace plan with a two-state solution. Except. The offer is not a peace but a truce that expires after 10 years. Meaning that after Israel has fatally weakened itself by settling millions of hostile Arab refugees in its midst, and after a decade of Hamas arming itself within a Palestinian state that narrows Israel to eight miles wide — Hamas restarts the war against a country it remains pledged to eradicate.

There is a phrase for such a peace: the peace of the grave.

Westerners may be stupid, but Hamas is not. It sees the new American administration making overtures to Iran and Syria. It sees Europe, led by Britain, beginning to accept Hezbollah. It sees itself as next in line. And it knows what to do. Yasser Arafat wrote the playbook.

The Arabic word for this kind of phony “truce” is hudna, and Westerners keep falling for it over and over.

Also see

Soccer Dad: Monster meshal

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100 comments

Holidays are Family Fun Time Fri, May 8, 2009 8:40:05am

hudna?

Ward Cleaver Fri, May 8, 2009 8:40:55am

Time to stock up on weapons, and let the metal shops get caught up.

turn Fri, May 8, 2009 8:42:11am

Hunda's going to believe this crap from Hamas anyway?

Ward Cleaver Fri, May 8, 2009 8:42:37am

Doesn't Krauthammer know the word, "hudna", and if so, why doesn't he use it, and give the definition? People need to know.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Fri, May 8, 2009 8:42:53am

Is hudna arabic for schmegma?

SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, May 8, 2009 8:43:17am

Meaning that after Israel has fatally weakened itself by settling millions of hostile Arab refugees in its midst, and after a decade of Hamas arming itself within a Palestinian state that narrows Israel to eight miles wide -- Hamas restarts the war against a country it remains pledged to eradicate.

Divide and conquer.
8 miles.
Since Israel was created, that is the goal.
Its always been there. Always.

Nevergiveup Fri, May 8, 2009 8:43:39am

He is absolutely right about Arafat having written the Book. This is nothing new and anyone with half a grip on history knows that. That does of course rule out the present occupant of the White House.

Ward Cleaver Fri, May 8, 2009 8:43:49am

re: #5 ggt

Is hudna arabic for schmegma?

Don't go all Red Dwarf on us.

ilzito guacamolito Fri, May 8, 2009 8:44:16am

hudna = hudwinked

Holidays are Family Fun Time Fri, May 8, 2009 8:44:30am

re: #8 Ward Cleaver

Don't go all Red Dwarf on us.

arghhhh, I don't get it.

Baier Fri, May 8, 2009 8:45:33am

This is going to get bad. Israel is in the way of Obama's world vision.

Cheesehead Fri, May 8, 2009 8:45:42am

Krauthammer is ignored by the Left because the truth hurts.

yma o hyd Fri, May 8, 2009 8:45:59am

re: #7 Nevergiveup

He is absolutely right about Arafat having written the Book. This is nothing new and anyone with half a grip on history knows that. That does of course rule out the present occupant of the White House.

And all the residents at Foggy Bottom as well ... starting right at the top.

jamgarr Fri, May 8, 2009 8:46:02am

All hail Charles the K!

I've said it before and I'll say it again - C. Krauthammer's daughter should marry V. Hanson's son and give birth to the 54th POTUS.

lawhawk Fri, May 8, 2009 8:46:17am

re: #3 turn

Hunda's going to believe this crap from Hamas anyway?

The Obama Administration, and diplomats from the world over. They believe in pseudoreality and are willing to suspend disbelief when it comes to anything that furthers the "peace" process. They think that a hudna is the same as peace, even though Hamas cannot and will never give up its fundamental and core belief - the annihilation of Israel.

Israel must be destroyed based on theological and ideological grounds. The group cannot give up those core beliefs without destroying itself - they are wedded to that belief.

So, they engage in a hudna so as to give themselves breathing room in which to operate and build up strength for another push against Israel and resuming its war against Israel.

The Operation Cast Lead was not a war in and of itself, but just the latest battle in an ongoing war against Israel's destruction.

NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 8, 2009 8:46:23am

re: #12 Cheesehead

Krauthammer is ignored by the Left because the truth hurts.

He is the best thing on FNC.

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 8:46:36am

Meshal sees the opportunity. Not only is the Obama administration reaching out to its erstwhile enemies in the region, but it begins its term by wagging an angry finger at Israel over the Netanyahu government's ostensible refusal to accept a two-state solution.

Thank you again, President Obama. Your brilliant leadership will be studied by schoolchildren generations from now.

Nevergiveup Fri, May 8, 2009 8:46:53am

re: #11 Baier

This is going to get bad. Israel is in the way of Obama's world vision.

Jerusalem worried over breakdown of U.S.-Israel cooperation under Obama

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Nothing to worry about. It's over. Your on your own.

AMER1CAN Fri, May 8, 2009 8:47:21am

They are un-clenching their fists alright. Just enough to strangle the jews.

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:47:31am

I was concerned over Krauthammer wavering a bit but he's back to writing some of the most informed and articulate pieces you will read in the mainstream press...

As for our dealings with Hamas, we are WAY past the 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...' exit.

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 8:48:52am

re: #18 Nevergiveup

Jerusalem worried over breakdown of U.S.-Israel cooperation under Obama

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Nothing to worry about. It's over. Your on your own.

Threadworthy article, IMHO. Frightening. And this is from the liberal Ha'aretz, no less.

yma o hyd Fri, May 8, 2009 8:49:19am

re: #15 lawhawk

Exactly.
And that war, with tacit support from State departments in the Western countries, has been going on for over 60 years.
The former Soviet Union and her clients were at least abvoe board in regard to their support for the Arabs ...

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:49:22am

re: #15 lawhawk

Just as the IslamoNazi's have always been at war with us, the Pali's and their allies have always been at war with Israel...

Everything is just a battle... Every suicide bomber attack is a small battle...

MJ Fri, May 8, 2009 8:49:33am

The Obama Administration as well as the UK are fully aware of what Hamas is up to. The fact is, the Administration doesn't care. They see Israel as the the single cause preventing their vision of world peace from being implemented throughout the world. Peace will only be possible when Israel is destroyed.

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:49:54am

re: #17 Occasional Reader

Thank you again, President Obama. Your brilliant leadership will be studied by schoolchildren generations from now.

/

In schools named for him, of course...

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 8:50:14am

Anyway, Biden made it clear just the other day that the only obstacle to peace in the Middle East are those darn joo settlements. Once those are out of the way, everything will be peachy.

Cheesehead Fri, May 8, 2009 8:51:15am

The Jihadists understand that the West simply doesn't have the same degree of patience that the Jihadists have. They space their major attacks years apart for a reason.

turn Fri, May 8, 2009 8:51:17am

re: #15 lawhawk

Hey, those are Hillary's words LH "willing suspension of disbelief" ha. What you wrote is so true, thanks. Incidentally, I learned the meaning of the term "terrorist" from my dad, he used it to describe Arafat when I was a young boy.

Steve Rogers Fri, May 8, 2009 8:51:26am

Nothing but a tactical (and temporary) retreat while they resupply, rearm and reload.

Nevergiveup Fri, May 8, 2009 8:51:36am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

Anyway, Biden made it clear just the other day that the only obstacle to peace in the Middle East are those darn joo settlements. Once those are out of the way, everything will be peachy.

Just like all them vegetables and flowers the Palis are growing in their greenhouses in Gaza?

MrSilverDragon Fri, May 8, 2009 8:52:04am

re: #25 tfc3rid

In schools named for him, of course...

I think it would be more appropriate to name transfer stations or dumps after him. This is my own bias, of course, mostly because of the saying, "Garbage in, garbage out."

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:52:17am

re: #27 Cheesehead

The Jihadists understand that the West simply doesn't have the same degree of patience that the Jihadists have. They space their major attacks years apart for a reason.

We also don't have the spine to fight them dirty should they decide to blackmail us...

yma o hyd Fri, May 8, 2009 8:52:28am

re: #18 Nevergiveup

Jerusalem worried over breakdown of U.S.-Israel cooperation under Obama

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Nothing to worry about. It's over. Your on your own.

As always!

Interestingly enough, there also has always been a pretty large group of Israeli politicians who thought US support was more important than defense of the country.
Still - the IDF in the end did, and hopefully always will, show those politicians what the bloody reality is.

ilzito guacamolito Fri, May 8, 2009 8:52:35am

re: #30 Nevergiveup

Just like all them vegetables and flowers the Palis are growing in their greenhouses in Gaza?

They selling all that farm fresh produce in France?

lawhawk Fri, May 8, 2009 8:53:16am

re: #15 lawhawk

Have to correct that last sentence.

The Operation Cast Lead was not a war in and of itself, but just the latest battle in an ongoing war against Israel's ~~destruction~~existence.

Kosh's Shadow Fri, May 8, 2009 8:53:35am

Well, we now know the Obama peace plan:

As part of the new strategy, Arab diplomats said this week that the US has asked the 22-member Arab League to amend a 2002 peace initiative to make it more palatable to Israel.
"What we are discussing today is a combined approach of bringing together Arabs, Europeans and the United States as a team to create the circumstances over the next several months that allow Israelis and Palestinians to sit at the table, but also with Lebanese, Syrians and Arab nations," Jordan's King Abdullah told a news conference in Berlin.

Start with the Saudi plan and drop the requirement that the "refugees" go to Israel. They get to go to the Palestinian state or get citizenship in Arab countries.
Israel goes back to 67 borders, as per the Saudi plan.
Jerusalem gets put under UN control.

The Arabs have already rejected this.

Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa rejected that suggestion.
"There is no amendment to this initiative. We have received nothing from the other side. ... no initiative no response and no proper talking about peace, so why should we change or amend and for what reason," he told The Associated Press in an interview

But I'm sure the Obama administration will keep trying to force the Israelis to accept it.

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:54:18am

re: #30 Nevergiveup

Just like all them vegetables and flowers the Palis are growing in their greenhouses in Gaza?

Greenhouses? There were greenhouses? Come on, everyone knows the Gaza Strip was just a wasteland...

Kosh's Shadow Fri, May 8, 2009 8:54:23am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

Anyway, Biden made it clear just the other day that the only obstacle to peace in the Middle East are those darn joo settlements. Once those are out of the way, everything will be peachy.

And the Israeli nuclear program.

CommonCents Fri, May 8, 2009 8:54:36am

re: #1 ggt

hudna?

In Islam it is forbidden to make peace with the infidel. A Hudna is a temporary lull in a conflict that resembles a peace treaty but only for a period of time while the muslims rearm and regroup.

SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, May 8, 2009 8:55:01am

Strategic depth ? What the hell is that ?
Am I covered or what ?

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:55:16am

Is Israel still one of our 57 states?

Ward Cleaver Fri, May 8, 2009 8:55:32am

re: #10 ggt

arghhhh, I don't get it.

:(

Red Dwarf

Smeg is a popular word on that show.

Kosh's Shadow Fri, May 8, 2009 8:55:37am

re: #41 tfc3rid

Is Israel still one of our 57 states?

Not any more.

Salamantis Fri, May 8, 2009 8:55:39am

There is no such thing as enduring peace with infidel nations in the Muslim lexicon; instead, they employ truces (hudnas). These are, according to the Qu'ran, supposed to be offered when the Faithful are militarily weak vis-à-vis their adversaries, to give them time to increase their military numbers and augment their armaments. When the weak faithful become militarily strong compared to their adversaries, the hudna is to be unilaterally broken by the faithful, and jihad is to resume. Once one understands the conceptual character of the hudna, it becomes obvious that it is never in a nation's interest to accept one.

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:55:41am

re: #40 SasquatchOnSteroids

Strategic depth ? What the hell is that ?
Am I covered or what ?

/O

I think he means 'strategic death...'

jamgarr Fri, May 8, 2009 8:55:57am

Krauthammer has a healthy disdain for Obama and always expresses it calmly.

Kragar Fri, May 8, 2009 8:56:09am

re: #36 Kosh's Shadow

The only sensible answer is to tell Obama to fuck right off.

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 8:56:13am

re: #36 Kosh's Shadow

But I'm sure the Obama administration will keep trying to force the Israelis to accept it.

Not to worry, they've already come up with a revised version. Rather than Israel going back to its 1967 borders, it goes back to its 1947 borders.

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:56:38am

re: #46 jamgarr

Krauthammer has a healthy disdain for Obama and always expresses it calmly.

Unlike the breathless Bush haters, he actually uses facts to back up his assertions...

yma o hyd Fri, May 8, 2009 8:57:15am

For a concise historical background - albeit chilling and eye-popping! - I recommend the book by Michael Oren on the Six Day war.

Michael Oren will be the new Israeli ambassador - thats why I got the book (its in the spin-off links ...).
His analysis shows that he is fully aware of the political backstabbing coming from western stae deprtments, especially from Foggy Bottom.

This has been going on since 1948 - there is indeed nothing new under the sun, as Ecclesiastes said a few thousand years ago ...

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 8:58:21am

Netanyahu's own defense minister, Ehud Barak, offered precisely such a deal in 2000. He even offered to divide Jerusalem and expel every Jew from every settlement remaining in the new Palestine.
The Palestinian response (for those who have forgotten) was: No.

Yeah, but that wasn't Obama asking... don't you guys get it? It lacked the power of HopeyChangeyness. Totally different scenario.

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 8:59:29am

re: #51 Occasional Reader

Yeah, but that wasn't Obama asking... don't you guys get it? It lacked the power of HopeyChangeyness. Totally different scenario.

Wait... Ehud Barak is Bibi's Defense Minister? Are Israeli politics like the NBA coaching carousel?

nyc redneck Fri, May 8, 2009 8:59:45am

i hope israel tells hamas to stick their hudna where the sun don't shine.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Fri, May 8, 2009 9:00:10am

re: #39 CommonCents

In Islam it is forbidden to make peace with the infidel. A Hudna is a temporary lull in a conflict that resembles a peace treaty but only for a period of time while the muslims rearm and regroup.

Yes, I just think it is a funny word.

Baier Fri, May 8, 2009 9:00:12am

Israel is strong enough to survive a pro-dictatorial foreign policy, but I doubt Israel will ever bow to these demands. Making Israel the bag buy will not advance the peace ~~process.~~ fantasy of Obama.
Bush was on the right track. Obama, like Clinton, will just enable the enemies of Israel to gain strength. This is disgusting.

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 9:00:20am

re: #50 yma o hyd

For a concise historical background - albeit chilling and eye-popping! - I recommend the book by Michael Oren on the Six Day war.

Zionist propaganda! The so-called "Six Day War" was launched by warlike Zionists on peaceful, unsuspecting Arabs, and resulted in a complete , resounding Arab victory.

Which is why Israel no longer exists.

Which is why we must destroy Israel.

Shut up with your filthy infidel "logic"!

Baier Fri, May 8, 2009 9:00:53am

re: #55 Baier

Israel is strong enough to survive a pro-dictatorial foreign policy, but I doubt Israel will ever bow to these demands. Making Israel the bag buy will not advance the peace ~~process.~~ fantasy of Obama.
Bush was on the right track. Obama, like Clinton, will just enable the enemies of Israel to gain strength. This is disgusting.

pimf
bad guy...bag buy?

dhg4 Fri, May 8, 2009 9:00:57am

re: #14 jamgarr

All hail Charles the K!

I've said it before and I'll say it again - C. Krauthammer's daughter should marry V. Hanson's son and give birth to the 54th POTUS.

I don't know about Hanson's family, but Dr. Krauthammer only has a son, no daughters!

Holidays are Family Fun Time Fri, May 8, 2009 9:01:10am

re: #42 Ward Cleaver

Red Dwarf

Smeg is a popular word on that show.

ah!

amir Fri, May 8, 2009 9:02:01am

The article is excellent but even Krauthammer makes a mistake. He writes: "The Times conducted a five-hour interview with Hamas leader Khaled Meshal at his Damascus headquarters. Mirabile dictu, they're offering a peace plan with a two-state solution."
Hamas never talks about a two state solution but only imply it. They say they are willing to accept a Palestinian state on the pre -67 border but they never said this will lead to recognition of Israel.
Hamas' propaganda is so transparent, but leftists are all to eager to swallow it up.

albusteve Fri, May 8, 2009 9:03:00am

re: #47 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The only sensible answer is to tell Obama to fuck right off.

right...they should have gone for the tunnels, they choked

Holidays are Family Fun Time Fri, May 8, 2009 9:04:08am

Have a great day all!

leereyno Fri, May 8, 2009 9:04:17am

Charles Krauthammer is being generous when he says that westerners are falling for this scam.

There are of course some people who do fall for it, but they are NOT among those whose opinions and decisions shape our nation's foreign policy. Those people know full well what the score is. They repeat the lies of Hamas because they have sided with Hamas in its efforts to destroy a free and democratic nation.

They are not falling for anything. They are consciously complicit in the lie, co-conspirators. They should be dealt with accordingly.

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 9:04:48am

re: #61 albusteve

right...they should have gone for the tunnels, they choked

Could they flood the tunnels?

Mr. In get Mr. Out Fri, May 8, 2009 9:05:15am

Lock and load, Israel. Lock and load.

Ben Hur Fri, May 8, 2009 9:06:06am

At least American Jews don't feel like racists.

Noah's Arrrgh Fri, May 8, 2009 9:06:13am

It's the classic jihadist's one-two punch - fitna and hudna.

NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 8, 2009 9:07:18am

Obama to visit Nazi concentration camp

BERLIN, May 8 (UPI) -- The White House can't confirm that President Obama will visit the site of the Buchenwald concentration camp this summer but Germany is making preparations.
Almost every senior official in the German states of Thuringa and Saxony already appear to have been informed about Obama's upcoming visit, expected to be on June 5, The Times of London reported Friday.

...Visiting a concentration camp will send an important message to Israel and Jewish voters that Obama fully recognizes the horrors of the Holocaust, The Times said.

The question is what will he do to prevent the next one?

Ben Hur Fri, May 8, 2009 9:08:34am

re: #68 NJDhockeyfan

Obama to visit Nazi concentration camp

The question is what will he do to prevent the next one?

Even more important question:

Which Obama aide fed that line of BS to the reporter?

tfc3rid Fri, May 8, 2009 9:10:20am

re: #69 Ben Hur

Even more important question:

Which Obama aide fed that line of BS to the reporter?

Is that the camp his relative liberated?

Throbert McGee Fri, May 8, 2009 9:11:09am

re: #42 Ward Cleaver

Red Dwarf

"Smeg" is a popular word on that show.

More specifically, it's an all-purpose futuristic cussword, like "frak" on Battlestar Galactica. (E.g., "Oh, smeg!" and "Smeg this!")

ilzito guacamolito Fri, May 8, 2009 9:12:09am

re: #68 NJDhockeyfan

Obama to visit Nazi concentration camp

...Visiting a concentration camp will send an important message to Israel and Jewish voters that Obama fully recognizes the horrors of the Holocaust
The question is what will he do to prevent the next one?

Visiting a concentration camp means Obama fully recognizes the horrors of the Holocaust?!? Who the F came up with that BS?

dhg4 Fri, May 8, 2009 9:12:23am

re: #4 Ward Cleaver

Doesn't Krauthammer know the word, "hudna", and if so, why doesn't he use it, and give the definition? People need to know.

He doesn't use the term, but he does define it:

And those like Hamas' Meshal, who have authority, have no intention of ever doing it.
Meshal's gambit to dress up perpetual war as a two-state peace is yet another iteration of the Palestinian rejectionist tragedy. In its previous incarnation, Arafat lulled Israel and the Clinton administration with talk of peace while he methodically prepared his people for war.

Arafat waited seven years to tear up his phony peace. Meshal's innovation? Ten -- then blood.

However, the term did not show up in the NY Times article that Krauthammer was commenting on.

Slightly OT, but I kind of liked the ending of the NYT article:

Asked if he feared assassination, Mr. Meshal said no, he would view it as martyrdom. Moreover, he said, since the first attempt, “death has become like drinking water.”

If he wills it, it is not a dream. I think it would be wonderful if Israel obliged him - and didn't botch it. Such a fate could certainly be viewed as a Win-Win.

Shr_Nfr Fri, May 8, 2009 9:13:45am

The average American does not know that under Salafi' jurisprudence the limit of time that a hunda can exist is 10 years or less. This is based on Mohammed's hunda of Hudaybiyya. The Salafi' school of jurisprudence is the one adopted by the Ikwan and Hamas.

gander Fri, May 8, 2009 9:19:57am

Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me........

[deleted] Fri, May 8, 2009 9:23:41am

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 9:27:14am

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

Just a hudna hudna
Burnin' cars

And Obama is apparently just a Hudna-sucker Proxy.

[deleted] Fri, May 8, 2009 9:28:15am

Spiritualized Fri, May 8, 2009 9:28:32am

The Arabic word for this kind of phony "truce" is hudna, and Westerners keep falling for it over and over.

'Falling for it' suggests that this is just a case of ignorance regarding Hamas' objectives and Islamic law. In reality many of our ellected officials are falling over themselves to legitimize Hamas and this is just an extension of the: "see, it's Israel that doesn't want peace." modus operandi.

It's a two-way relationship.

The likes of Meshaal/Haniyeh etc. know exactly which key phrases to use because they've been [literally] coached by the Peanut Farmer and others of his ilk.

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 9:29:31am

re: #68 NJDhockeyfan

...Visiting a concentration camp will send an important message to Israel and Jewish voters that Obama fully recognizes the horrors of the Holocaust,

Gosh... what a relief, the President of the United States is not a Holocaust-denier. Another historic first! etc. etc.

ilzito guacamolito Fri, May 8, 2009 9:30:10am

re: #77 Occasional Reader

And Obama is apparently just a Hudna-sucker Proxy.

Oh don't Coen me! Obama isn't THAT stupid.

Spiritualized Fri, May 8, 2009 9:32:28am

Visiting a concentration camp will send an important message to Israel and Jewish voters that Obama fully recognizes the horrors of the Holocaust, The Times said.

Won't that offend Germans? Surely Barry wouldn't want to do that?

Meanwhile....

Inevitable: U.S.-Israeli cooperation starting to break down under Obama

Senior officials in Jerusalem expressed concern recently over the sharp decline in the coordination between Israel and the United States on security and state affairs since President Barack Obama's entered the White House and especially since the formation of Israel's new government…
"Obama's people brief their Israeli counterparts in advance much less about security and Middle East policy activities than the Bush administration used to," the officials said.

In addition, when they do brief Israeli officials, they don't consult with them or coordinate their statements in advance…

Occasional Reader Fri, May 8, 2009 9:33:17am

re: #81 ilzito guacamolito

Oh don't Coen me! Obama isn't THAT stupid.

If you have to take it that Far.. go right ahead.

(Now I feel like a real Fink)

Kosh's Shadow Fri, May 8, 2009 9:34:20am

re: #78 JustABill

So heres a dumb question, if the concept of hudna makes it foolish to make a peace treaty with any Muslim Nation, where does that leave us? Seems to me the only options are eternal conflict or genocide.

Note to Charles: I am not advocating either, I just don't see other solutions...

We need to expose the Jihadis, and let those moderate Muslims (apostates to the jihadis) keep their religion out of the hands of the extremists.
That means really keeping Wahabi money and influence out (since it is tied to terrorism).
It also means protecting them from the violence the extremists threaten every time the more moderate try to expose the jihadis.
Maybe it won't work, but we need to try.

ilzito guacamolito Fri, May 8, 2009 9:34:48am

re: #83 Occasional Reader

If you have to take it that Far.. go right ahead.

(Now I feel like a real Fink)

Obama, the President Who Wasn't There.

JustABill Fri, May 8, 2009 9:43:09am

re: #84 Kosh's Shadow

We need to expose the Jihadis, and let those moderate Muslims (apostates to the jihadis) keep their religion out of the hands of the extremists.
That means really keeping Wahabi money and influence out (since it is tied to terrorism).
It also means protecting them from the violence the extremists threaten every time the more moderate try to expose the jihadis.
Maybe it won't work, but we need to try.

I hope your right, I wish I knew how many Muslems were moderate and what that really means. I also realize I left out an alternative, that would be submission...

aggieann Fri, May 8, 2009 9:57:39am

We shudna fallen for hudna.

Sceptic Tank Fri, May 8, 2009 11:00:08am

Hamas is better for Israel to have out front because its intentions are clear, not illusionist like that other pack of swines Abu-Abbas whatever.

Frank N Stein Fri, May 8, 2009 11:32:33am

"Apart from the time restriction (a truce that lapses after 10 years) and the refusal to accept Israel's existence, Mr. Meshal's terms approximate the Arab League peace plan ... "
-- Hamas peace plan, as explained by The New York Times

LMAO. Except the refusal to accept the existence of the US as an infidel state, Iran is just as peaceful towards the US as the Soviet Union was. Apparently the MSM feels by now it can feed its consumers any kind of nonsense with impunity.

Captain Cool Fri, May 8, 2009 11:59:39am

Hamas will not even pretend to make peace like Arafat did. If they are ever legitimized, it will only be because the west has lowered its standards.

amir Fri, May 8, 2009 12:04:01pm

This is a continuation to my comment #60.

Even Jonathan Tobin in Commentary makes the same mistake. He writes: "He went on to claim that Hamas is no longer shooting missiles at southern Israel and that it is willing to accept a two-state solution." I went to the New York Times article just to make sure and of course Meshal never accepts a two-state solution. More quotes from the interview can be found at Haaretz and Meshal definitely does not recognize a two state solution.
The Hebrew language media has taken the task of making everyone stupid to a new level by consistently translating the term "two state solution" in Hebrew to "Two states for two peoples" - the implication being a state for the Jewish people and a state for the Palestinian people. This is a double lie since even those Arabs who speak of a two state solution are not talking about two states for two people but two states period. One for the Palestinians and the other one (Israel) binational.

Mikey_Dallas Fri, May 8, 2009 12:11:53pm

Maybe if Pelosi went back to Syria with her little scarf on, everything would be ok.

judahsabre Fri, May 8, 2009 12:15:40pm

Another interesting element in the Times article is Meshal recommending that Westerners stop paying attention to the Hamas Covenant. Did that mean he was willing to revoke it? No, no, not at all -- just that Westerners needn't look at it. Interesting for two reasons: one is the obvious one -- i.e., Hamas still believes in this intensely racist and historically wigged-out document, and they'd rather Westerners simply support them without knowing what they stand for. But secondly, I've seen plenty of Western apologists for Hamas claiming that Hamas already DID rescind its charter. Now we have it from no less an authority than Meshal that this is a lie.

Caboose Fri, May 8, 2009 1:01:47pm

re: #64 tfc3rid

Could they flood the tunnels?

Nahh, just fill the tunnels full of vampire pigs with night-vision goggles and frikken' laser-beams on their heads. It'll be... fun.

Vercimber Fri, May 8, 2009 1:47:00pm

I've been an amateur middle east expert since the 90's, and this sort of article is always disheartening to me. Krauthammer always comes out with these comments, and yet, he never offers a resolution. It seems, his only solution is, perpetual, eternal conflict between Israel and its neighbors. I would be content if Krauthammer would come out with an article saying something like "All the Arab nations should offer to take in the Palestinian people, giving them a home amongst their brethren, and ending the conflict with Israel".

Do I want Hamas to have its way? No, but I also know that you can't resolve a conflict this way, and the idea of a perpetual, and worsening conflict is just too much for me to stomach at this point in my life.

Mosse Fri, May 8, 2009 3:54:39pm

And this may also be the reason the conceptual groundwork is being laid by interjecting elements of fascist and Nazi thought in recent mainstream venues. I commented at LGF last night about the peculiar near-simultaneity of what Bawer reports about and what Steyn reports in this month’s edition of Commentary, while Pam Geller appears on Hannity on FOX, Glenn Beck's Mormon interpretation of "Satan" is put forward (about which I've posted elsewhere), and Megyn Kelly’s suggestion of "forced sterilization" goes unchallenged by John O'Reilly, also on FOX. Today, Glenn Beck called John Stossel a "softie" for not wishing to eliminate people who use taxpayer's money for chosen self-endangerment, like ice-fishers who fall through ice when they should have known better.

Beck may have been kidding Stossel with the "softie" remark, but the idea of elimination and forced sterilization have not been part of recent American political conversation -- except as descriptions of the policies of totalitarian nations. The U.S. did sterilize the "retarded" in 25 states, earlier in the last century. It is a blight on the record of this country and, I believe, all of the enabling laws have since been struck down. The danger in this thought suddenly appearing as part of "normal discourse" is, as I wrote earlier, that it can become part of a slow-motion avalanche of fear-inspired thought that, once engrained, then becomes a tool available to unconscionable "leadership", whenever it wants to use it. If Israel really is slowly abandoned by U.S. policy, this thought can be accessed at the moment when diplomatic policy formalizes the break from Israel, and – prompted (or, simply, lauded) by Saudi/Islamist “partners” --this pre-prepared direction of carefully cultivated “popular” responses is then applied to those "recalcitrant" Jews. As Krauthammer correctly says, the proper term for this direction of policy is "the peace of the grave" for Israel. And the U.S.' new "framework of thought" -- eliminationist thinking, sterilization of undesirables, acceptance of openly fascist groups like Vlaams Belang, false science, and fringe religious interpretations -- will help it happen.

AFVetWife Fri, May 8, 2009 4:18:42pm

re: #16 NJDhockeyfan
I agree - and I'm glad to see that he's on more often and that they've made that segment longer.

Frank N Stein Fri, May 8, 2009 4:37:37pm

re: #95 Vercimber

I think what Ehud Barak put on the table in 2000/1 is the maximum Israel can do without committing national suicide. The new and amended deal the so-called moderate Arab states came up with at the request of the Obama admin seems, judging only by reports in media, very close to what Barak offered (again, judging only by the few details leaked to the media), but the initiative was finally rejected by the Arab side and, of-course, Iran. I think the logical next step is to pressure the Arabs to follow that initiative and also for the Palestinians to follow their own part in the road map (renounce violence, dismantle the terrorist infrastructure, stop the anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish incitement in the media and education system...) - only then you can pressure Israel to follow its part. You can't just pressure Israel, when it's really the other side that rejects a genuine two state solution, and hope it gets you peace. Israel won't voluntarily commit suicide, so if the leftist "solution" to the Middle East conflict is in reality to end the State of Israel then for the sake of honesty they should just say so and then send NATO or the American air force to bomb Israel until there's no Israeli resistance left.

A two state solution is risky enough for Israel as it is since it shrinks Israel to a strip of land that is hardly defensible, and peace will depend on the goodwill and sincerity of the Arabs (yeah, right) or rather the near-certainty that they can't win and that the West will support Israel if they attack either conventionally or by terrorism. As a leftist (originally) it's a risk I'm willing to take. But I'm not willing to take turning Israel into another Arab-Muslim state and pretending it's "two states for two peoples" and "peace".

Pygmalienation Fri, May 8, 2009 6:51:01pm

Between Krauthammer and VDH, there is hope for rational conservatism, IMHO.
These are the guy's conservative minded people should be rallying around instead for the wingnuts of today or the great conservative figures of the past. The present doesn't wait to present its self.
My $0.02

100

Pygmalienation Fri, May 8, 2009 6:53:41pm

re: #99 Pygmalienation

pimf
for=of

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