RedState Proves the GOP Isn’t ‘Anti-Science’ - By Promoting Creationism

Science • Views: 3,710

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry after reading this post that was “promoted” to the front page of redstate.com, trying to prove that Republicans are not anti-science… with an ignorant rant in favor of teaching “intelligent design” creationism.

Yep. Really.

Writer “realityunwound” tries to turn the tables and say that “liberals” are anti-science (hah! gotcha, liberals!) because they refuse to acknowledge the wonderfulness of creationism: Liberals are anti-science: reading between the lines of intellectual bullying.

Those liberals! Always intellectually bullying us with facts! And science!

Includes numerous misspellings, grammatical mistakes, misplaced apostrophes, and odd capitalization, of course. This is a capsule image of one of the GOP’s major problems. It’s too depressing to go through the whole mess line by line, gentle readers, but here’s an excerpt that will give you the flavor of it:

What’s the problem with advocating alternative theories in science class? Intelligent Design proponents weren’t advocating that Evolution be thrown out of the classroom, only that it be taught in its true scientific context, as a widely held belief with scientifically legitimate alternatives. The I.D.’ers here are reduced to an easily marginalized stereotype (passionate Evangelical Christians). Did the author interview every opponent to discover their religious or philosophical belief’s? Is there any chance that an impartial, unbiased scientists would allow room for Intelligent Design?

We’ve dealt with this silly argument so many times at LGF that it gets tiresome to keep repeating it, but “intelligent design” creationism has absolutely no legitimacy as a scientific theory; there isn’t a single peer-reviewed paper that supports it, there is no research behind it, there are no reputable scientists who promote it, and the most famous (actually, the only) biologist identified with ID, Michael Behe, has been explicitly denounced by his own department at Lehigh University. Their statement:

The faculty in the Department of Biological Sciences is committed to the highest standards of scientific integrity and academic function. This commitment carries with it unwavering support for academic freedom and the free exchange of ideas. It also demands the utmost respect for the scientific method, integrity in the conduct of research, and recognition that the validity of any scientific model comes only as a result of rational hypothesis testing, sound experimentation, and findings that can be replicated by others.

The department faculty, then, are unequivocal in their support of evolutionary theory, which has its roots in the seminal work of Charles Darwin and has been supported by findings accumulated over 140 years. The sole dissenter from this position, Prof. Michael Behe, is a well-known proponent of “intelligent design.” While we respect Prof. Behe’s right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific.

I recommend you follow the links “realityunwound” provides, to the kinds of websites he thinks prove modern science wrong. For example, this one: Debunking Evolution - problems, errors, and lies of evolution exposed as false and wrong.

Calling that a “kook site” would be too kind. It’s a mind-numbing compendium of every long-debunked creationist talking point in the book. If you have a day or two to spend at it, you can find answers for every single point at talkorigins.org.

One more quote from “realityunwound” before we conclude:

Just because it is supported by an enormous body of evidence, doesn’t mean it’s not speculative. The implication here is that there is absolutely no evidence what so ever for intelligent design. Also, simply because it’s the foundation of the current biological sciences doesn’t make it true. The science of medicine was based on a faulty premise before germ theory. Does that make germ theory was false, only does it mean the whole system was previously built on a faulty assumption? This paragraph works great to marginalize the opposition, but it doesn’t do much at all to further the conversation.

Good grief.

And remember, this was elevated to the front page at RedState. This is why so many people believe the GOP has a problem with science — because it does.

Jump to bottom

1039 comments
1 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:21:37pm

WTF?!?

Hello Houston, we've got a problem!

2 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:27:13pm

re: #1 FurryOldGuyJeans

WTF?!?

Hello Houston, we've got a problem!

Oh there you go, bringing since into the discussion again.

/besides didn't you know that the moon landing was faked. ;)

3 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:27:37pm

You read this stuff and are reminded of a Firesign Theater skit:

"I don't want to promote stupidity as a national sport....."

4 jvic  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:28:16pm

With some justification, it's been claimed that the 20th Century was the century of physics and the 21st will be the century of biology.

Apparently a lot of people want it to be the century of 19th-Century biology.

(This report on Chinese stem cell research should be taken with salt, but it would be foolish to ignore it.)

5 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:28:20pm

If not accepting a patently narrow defined religious dogma as science means I'm a liberal, then just call avanti jr.

6 Gella  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:28:42pm

for some reason after reading this post i want to watch "Idiocracy? again

7 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:29:18pm

re: #2 BlueCanuck

Oh there you go, bringing since into the discussion again.

/besides didn't you know that the moon landing was faked. ;)

Ummm, Apollo 13 didn't land on the moon, don't you mean a faked accident? ;)

8 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:29:20pm

With sincerest apologies to The Kinks

(to the tune of “The Village Green Preservation Society”

We are the YEC Preservation Society
God save Talking Points, Stealth Bills and Mike Huckabee
We are the Michael Behe Appreciation Society
God save Adnan Oktar and above all the Wedge Strategy

Preserving the old ways from being abused
Perverting the new ways for me and for you
What more can we do

We are the ID Preservation Society
God save McElroy and Good Old Gov’ner Perry
We are the Ben Stein Appreciation Consortium
God save the GOP and the DI folks who funded them
We are the Science Class Sabotaging Conspirators
God save Glenn Beck, Bobby Jindal and Klinghoffer
We are the Charles Darwin Persecution Affinity
God save the human eye, and its irreducible complexity
We are the Evolution Condemnation Affiliates
God save school boards, and Cdesign Proponentsists

Preserving the old ways from being abused
Perverting the new ways for me and for you
What more can we do

God save the YECs.

9 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:29:29pm

Whaaaa! I WANT MY PARTY BACK!

10 jhrhv  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:30:26pm

Proves the GOP Isn't 'Anti-Science' - By Promoting Creationism

Great header.

11 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:30:33pm

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

Whaaaa! I WANT MY PARTY BACK!

Here, you can have it. I'll stick with the rationalists and sane peoples. ;)

12 LSD  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:31:36pm

They never stop to think that the "intelligent design" was ..... EVOLUTION!

13 triumphguy  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:31:37pm

Oh well. At least Charles recognizes there is a difference between fact and science.

If you don't believe in creationism as the Christian Bible teaches, you don't believe in the Bible and therefore God (I AM). No you can't pick and choose the parts you want to believe in.

That's your choice, of course- but lets not confuse the two. I've said it before, science consistently proves itself wrong, but it does affirm the teachings of the Bible.

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

This used to be a great site for obscure news. The best part of it now is the music- sigh. Pity.

14 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:32:14pm

re: #7 FurryOldGuyJeans

That is the problem with you liberal conservatives. All you care about is fact, fact, fact. There is more to life than evidence and factual information, ya know.

/ gosh I hope I don't need this

15 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:32:44pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Karma: -67

triumphguy

(Logged in)
Registered since: Jul 17, 2007 at 6:33 pm
No. of comments posted: 13
No. of links posted: 0

Hmm. Nice not knowing you!

16 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:32:51pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Cleanup, aisle 13.

Still is a great site, you just don't like having your pet dogma poked.

17 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:32:59pm

re: #8 Bloodnok

With sincerest apologies to The Kinks

(to the tune of “The Village Green Preservation Society”

We are the YEC Preservation Society
God save Talking Points, Stealth Bills and Mike Huckabee
We are the Michael Behe Appreciation Society
God save Adnan Oktar and above all the Wedge Strategy

Preserving the old ways from being abused
Perverting the new ways for me and for you
What more can we do

We are the ID Preservation Society
God save McElroy and Good Old Gov’ner Perry
We are the Ben Stein Appreciation Consortium
God save the GOP and the DI folks who funded them
We are the Science Class Sabotaging Conspirators
God save Glenn Beck, Bobby Jindal and Klinghoffer
We are the Charles Darwin Persecution Affinity
God save the human eye, and its irreducible complexity
We are the Evolution Condemnation Affiliates
God save school boards, and Cdesign Proponentsists

Preserving the old ways from being abused
Perverting the new ways for me and for you
What more can we do

God save the YECs.

You're starting to rival buzzsawmonkey, BN. Outstanding!

18 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:33:35pm

re: #13 triumphguy

GAZE

19 IslandLibertarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:33:38pm

Why is "The Unicorn Song" going through my mind?

Mythology vs. Reality..........What a concept!

/thank gods I'm of to physical therapy.....today I get a massage. ' Hope that kicks the "Irish Rovers" out of my head.

20 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:33:48pm

Anyone who still has questions about this "controversy" should read
Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design
by Barbara Forrest and Paul Gross. It's a very clear and well documented study of the deceptive practices of the supporters of the Intelligent Design movement.

21 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:33:53pm

re: #15 Fat Jolly Penguin

Karma: -67

triumphguy

(Logged in)
Registered since: Jul 17, 2007 at 6:33 pm
No. of comments posted: 13
No. of links posted: 0

Hmm. Nice not knowing you!

Will be remembered by the foul fart stench it left behind.

22 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:33:57pm

I love the claim of "intellectual bullying".

23 Bagua  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:34:48pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Nonsense!

And by what authority do you pass judgement on what you call the bible?

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:34:52pm

re: #13 triumphguy

If you don't believe in creationism as the Christian Bible teaches, you don't believe in the Bible and therefore God (I AM). No you can't pick and choose the parts you want to believe in.

That is not true on a whole bunch of different levels.

25 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:35:06pm

Martyr cookie for #13. They're coming out early tonight.

26 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:35:28pm

GOP: Government Of Purblind

27 Gella  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:35:53pm

re: #13 triumphguy

ok, next time when u need to go and see doctor, actually dont' go, wait for G-D to cure u

28 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:35:56pm

re: #21 FurryOldGuyJeans

Will be remembered by the foul fart stench it left behind.

But of course. Should I open a window?

29 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:36:18pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

If someone's looking to be a martyr, begging for some intellectual bullying is the safest way to go.

30 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:36:45pm

re: #13 triumphguy

The flounces make you look fat.

31 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:36:54pm

This is too depressing. It's an open sore on the party--and the Dems are waiting to wail on it in 2010.

32 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:36:56pm

re: #28 Fat Jolly Penguin

But of course. Should I open a window?

Too late, the smell is already ruining Charles' carpeting and peeling the paint off the walls.

33 Red Lion  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:37:07pm

Keep calling it like you see it, Charles!

34 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:38:06pm

re: #13 triumphguy

I think I might end up regretting this, but here goes:

G-d gave man the ability to reason. This was not on accident, it was to be used to discover, learn, grow. Though I don't proclaim to be able to quote scripture, I am confident that G-d is delighted that man is using his brain to resolve these sorts of puzzles. It would just go to show how marvelous a creature man really is!

35 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:38:07pm

re: #8 Bloodnok

More "Self-preservation Society" from the original "Italian Job"

36 IslandLibertarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:38:24pm

Does triumphguy know Jesus told Peter that he had "sheep" that Peter didn't know about?

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:38:47pm

re: #31 calcajun

This is too depressing. It's an open sore on the party--and the Dems are waiting to wail on it in 2010.

What's the rationale here? Is this even an issue that the infamous base actually cares deeply about? Why are so many apparently popular and sensible Republican figures stepping up for this one?

38 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:39:16pm

#13

The Bible is a creation of the minds of men.

39 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:39:44pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Oh well. At least Charles recognizes there is a difference between fact and science.

If you don't believe in creationism as the Christian Bible teaches, you don't believe in the Bible and therefore God (I AM). No you can't pick and choose the parts you want to believe in.

That's your choice, of course- but lets not confuse the two. I've said it before, science consistently proves itself wrong, but it does affirm the teachings of the Bible.

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

This used to be a great site for obscure news. The best part of it now is the music- sigh. Pity.


Oh thank god, I was wondering where all the crazies went.


Do tell us more, triumphguy PhD

40 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:39:50pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

Thanks, but I'll never be as good as Buzz. That song writes itself-you can fit almost any meter in there.

41 Gella  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:40:55pm

re: #39 SpaceJesus

Oh thank god, I was wondering where all the crazies went.

Do tell us more, triumphguy PhD

obscure logic? but i am just saying

42 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:40:57pm

I see stupid people.

Yes-stupid. People who are willfully blind to the damage they are doing to their party and ultimately to their Country.

43 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:41:05pm

re: #13 triumphguy

You must have been just waiting to post that flounce-off comment. Bye now!

44 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:41:09pm

A note to the GOP,

This constant pandering to the fringe while being unable to form a coherent reasonable alternative to issues such as energy, spending, corruption, defense, immigration and a host of other issues real doesn't appeal to the majority of voters.

It sure aint motivating me to back any of your "top contenders".

Mind your step, the dustbin of history is right around the corner.

45 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:41:33pm

re: #27 Gella

ok, next time when u need to go and see doctor, actually dont' go, wait for G-D to cure u

Bad grammar is as unbecoming as bad logic.

46 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:42:03pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a lot of money to be made in convincing believers that their beliefs are under siege, or not being given a 'fair' hearing. The people pushing this idea hardest are going to do very well; the Republican Party will not.

47 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:42:09pm

re: #38 Dar ul Harbarian

#13

The Bible is a creation of the minds of men.

Do not go there, please. This is a social and legal issue-not a theological one--a point many of these dumb but well-intentioned folks keep missing.

48 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:42:18pm

From "realityunwound":

The very foundation of true science is being open to question your hypothesis. As soon as you stop questioning, or limit the scope of your questions, you stop being a scientist and start being a dogmatist.

Maybe this person should practice what he preaches.

49 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:43:01pm

re: #39 SpaceJesus

Oh thank god, I was wondering where all the crazies went.

Do tell us more, triumphguy PhD

Quoted, to preserve a good comment.

50 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:43:04pm

re: #46 jaunte

There's a lot of money to be made in convincing believers that their beliefs are under siege, or not being given a 'fair' hearing. The people pushing this idea hardest are going to do very well; the Republican Party will not.

presto bingo....$$$$

51 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:43:20pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Oh well. At least Charles recognizes there is a difference between fact and science.

If you don't believe in creationism as the Christian Bible teaches, you don't believe in the Bible and therefore God (I AM). No you can't pick and choose the parts you want to believe in.

That's your choice, of course- but lets not confuse the two. I've said it before, science consistently proves itself wrong, but it does affirm the teachings of the Bible.

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

This used to be a great site for obscure news. The best part of it now is the music- sigh. Pity.

Holy Cow! where did you come from?
I'm ready to discuss science with you and wipe the floor..But wait.You want to discuss God. Didn't Jesus choose what part of the Bible he believed in? Freaked out a lot of people overall ( they killed him)..
You know..The whole lets kill the Son of God cause he healed Somebody on a Saturday?
Honestly..You'd be better off sticking with science here..Cause with religious theory you really suck...Sorry

52 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:43:41pm

re: #43 Charles

Didn't sound like the kind of guy to flounce. More like "storm off in a huff."

53 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:43:46pm

re: #47 calcajun

Do not go there, please. This is a social and legal issue-not a theological one--a point many of these dumb but well-intentioned folks keep missing.

Brain fart.
Opps....'scuse me.

54 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:43:54pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Utter nonsense.

Since when is it the job of humans to tell god what to do?

55 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:44:15pm

re: #52 calcajun

Didn't sound like the kind of guy to flounce. More like "storm off in a huff."

or perhaps a screaming hissy

56 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:44:32pm

re: #43 Charles

You must have been just waiting to post that flounce-off comment. Bye now!

aw don't ban it, let us play with it for a while

57 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:44:44pm

re: #46 jaunte

There's a lot of money to be made in convincing believers that their beliefs are under siege, or not being given a 'fair' hearing. The people pushing this idea hardest are going to do very well; the Republican Party will not.

Elmer Gantry got rich fleecing the flock, and so did the Bakers.

58 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:44:48pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

KT! Good evening!

Would you believe I thought about you quite a lot when I was away? I did. I quoted you once or twice, too, come to think of it.

59 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:44:54pm

re: #53 Dar ul Harbarian

Brain fart.
Opps....'scuse me.

Quite alright. Just open and widow and light a match or two. /

60 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:45:07pm

re: #43 Charles

You must have been just waiting to post that flounce-off comment. Bye now!

I'm putting the charcoal on the grill now. My mother's pot roast filled me up, so you all will have the roast troll to yourselves. I've got a case of Pepsi Throwback and I'm now taking orders for any additional sodas.

61 Gella  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:45:32pm

i think #13 was blinded with science

62 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:45:41pm

re: #56 SpaceJesus

aw don't ban it, let us play with it for a while

move on...this fixation with banned posters gets old

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:45:42pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

I'm putting the charcoal on the grill now. My mother's pot roast filled me up, so you all will have the roast troll to yourselves. I've got a case of Pepsi Throwback and I'm now taking orders for any additional sodas.

I kinda like the Coke Zero. It tastes more like regular than the Diet.

64 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:46:14pm

re: #56 SpaceJesus

aw don't ban it, let us play with it for a while

We have you to play with.

65 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:46:37pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

Then you don't believe in science, sadly. It's not an either/or. Gravity, even if we don't understand the mechanism yet, is the law.

66 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:46:42pm

re: #57 FurryOldGuyJeans

I haven't heard a conservative talk radio personality yet who has gone beyond the "teach the controversy, and let the kids decide" level of thinking about this issue.

67 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:46:54pm

re: #27 Gella

ok, next time when u need to go and see doctor, actually dont' go, wait for G-D to cure u


/ahem, if God wanted you cured he would not have made you sick in the first place.

68 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:47:01pm

re: #55 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

or perhaps a screaming hissy

I think that's quite accurate. Very embarrasing in a grown man.

69 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:47:03pm

re: #61 Gella

i think #13 was blinded with science

[Video]

When all you wanted was to be surrounded with Dolby.

70 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:47:07pm

Time to pile on the dead dude#13! ;)

71 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:47:40pm

I'm just speechless.
re: #13 triumphguy

Oh well. At least Charles recognizes there is a difference between fact and science.

If you don't believe in creationism as the Christian Bible teaches, you don't believe in the Bible and therefore God (I AM). No you can't pick and choose the parts you want to believe in.

That's your choice, of course- but lets not confuse the two. I've said it before, science consistently proves itself wrong, but it does affirm the teachings of the Bible.

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

This used to be a great site for obscure news. The best part of it now is the music- sigh. Pity.

I am a conservative, in all ways.
I am also a Christian.
I do NOT believe the Bible's creation stories are literal fact; so by your terms, I am "not a Christian"?

How dare you insult me (and others like me) in that way. How dare YOU decide who is Christian and who isn't - did somebody make you God while I wasn't looking?

72 Gella  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:47:45pm

re: #67 brookly red

/ahem, if God wanted you cured he would not have made you sick in the first place.

illogical communication between 2?
/////

73 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:48:21pm

re: #66 jaunte

I haven't heard a conservative talk radio personality yet who has gone beyond the "teach the controversy, and let the kids decide" level of thinking about this issue.

It would expose the lies and deception if they did.

74 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:48:26pm

Here's a thought! GOP, read carefully and for comprehension:

Agree to disagree, and move on down the road. Stop trying to repackage something religious as science, there isn't a big enough bow. Don't shun those who are creationists - just politely inform them it won't be taught as science unless the teaching occurs in a private school with no government funding. Take all that energy being spent making creationism something it isn't, and focus it on the core tenants of the Republican party - small government, strong national defense, conservative fiscal policy minus the "compassion", and strong defense of rights held in the Constitution.

75 Lincolntf  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:48:26pm

Anyone watching the Celtics game?
If so, tell me that Van Gundy isn't a dead-ringer for Ron Jeremy.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:48:27pm

re: #67 brookly red

/ahem, if God wanted you cured he would not have made you sick in the first place.

What if God made you sick in order to test your faith, but will cure you if you stand by and exhibit faith?

Someone just smack me, please.

77 baier  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:48:43pm
And remember, this was elevated to the front page at RedState. This is why so many people believe the GOP has a problem with science — because it does.

Creationism blinded me with science.

78 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:48:57pm
Just because it is supported by an enormous body of evidence, doesn’t mean it’s not speculative.

I think this person not only has a weak grasp on science, but also the English language.

79 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:48:58pm

re: #62 albusteve

move on...this fixation with banned posters gets old

Which reminds me. I was in the UK for a couple of weeks and I got back and Ploome was Sticked. What happened?

80 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:49:16pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

He's replaying today's logical fallacy of the day.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

81 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:49:18pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

How dare YOU decide who is Christian and who isn't - did somebody make you God while I wasn't looking?

Most excellent. Ding!

82 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:49:23pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

He's gone now. But, others are watching.

83 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:49:37pm

re: #78 Sharmuta

I think this person not only has a weak grasp on science, but also the English language.

And logic.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:49:37pm

re: #79 austin_blue

Which reminds me. I was in the UK for a couple of weeks and I got back and Ploome was Sticked. What happened?

Baruch Goldstein happened.

85 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:49:57pm

re: #75 Lincolntf

Anyone watching the Celtics game?
If so, tell me that Van Gundy isn't a dead-ringer for Ron Jeremy.

Only with the mustache.

86 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:50:00pm

re: #79 austin_blue

Which reminds me. I was in the UK for a couple of weeks and I got back and Ploome was Sticked. What happened?

ask Charles...it's his gig

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:50:21pm

re: #82 calcajun

He's gone now. But, others are watching.

The light! It's so beautiful! They can't help it! ZAP.

88 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:50:31pm

re: #75 Lincolntf

Anyone watching the Celtics game?
If so, tell me that Van Gundy isn't a dead-ringer for Ron Jeremy.

I can't see in his pants......

89 baier  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:50:36pm
Just because it is supported by an enormous body of evidence, doesn’t mean it’s not speculative.

/Just because all the facts support it, doesn't make it true...wheres my crack pipe?

90 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:01pm

re: #72 Gella

illogical communication between 2?
/////

actually, faith based healing is going to be a big part of O's health care plan... if you get sick you better pray your treatmet is covered.

91 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:10pm

re: #80 jaunte

He's replaying today's logical fallacy of the day.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yeah, I guess he is.
I'm so tired of seeing those kind of things posted. Now he will flounce off and announce how LGF is anti-Christian, and he made the only anti-Christian insulting comment here, as far as I can see.

92 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:12pm
But I'm NOT the Messiah! Honestly!
But I say you are Lord, and I should know; I've followed a few!


Life of Brian.

93 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:20pm
The implication here is that there is absolutely no evidence what so ever for intelligent design.

Again- poor grasp on English. There is no "implication" that there is no evidence to support ID- that's what we call a stone cold fact.

94 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:25pm

re: #66 jaunte

I haven't heard a conservative talk radio personality yet who has gone beyond the "teach the controversy, and let the kids decide" level of thinking about this issue.

There are none.

95 Gella  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:27pm

re: #90 brookly red

then O should start sharing his herbals

96 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:29pm

re: #75 Lincolntf

Anyone watching the Celtics game?
If so, tell me that Van Gundy isn't a dead-ringer for Ron Jeremy.

Bite your tongue..
/dang he is right..I did not laugh..I did not laugh..promise..almost

97 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:51:42pm

re: #89 baier

/Just because all the facts support it, doesn't make it true...wheres my crack pipe?

does seem a little odd don't it?....see how it plays out

98 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:52:02pm

The statement "This blog was so much better when ________" is the electronic equivalent of "Hey y'all! Watchi this!"

99 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:52:14pm

re: #90 brookly red

actually, faith based healing is going to be a big part of O's health care plan... if you get sick you better pray your treatmet is covered.

Quite right! Or that there's a sudden hole in the schedule.

100 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:53:06pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

The light! It's so beautiful! They can't help it! ZAP.

Boy, now that would suck.

Come into the light, children


only the creepy little dwarf is leading us into Satan's bug zapper.

101 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:53:15pm

re: #94 Charles

There are none.

Can we just moan and cover our faces?

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:53:27pm

re: #89 baier

/Just because all the facts support it, doesn't make it true...wheres my crack pipe?

It's an attempt to reverse-engineer faith. "It is by all means to be believed because it is absurd," says Tertullian, and triumphguy responds, "OK, so if it is reasonable to believe it is by all means not to be believed."

I don't think it works, exactly.

103 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:53:50pm

re: #98 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

The statement "This blog was so much better when ________" is the electronic equivalent of "Hey y'all! Watchi this!"

Suicide by Stinky is frankly becoming boring. The only way to make it interesting is have the ban stick burst a fuel cell so Stinky needs heroic measures to return him to reality and away from the fantasy these far-right fringees exist in.

104 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:54:07pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

Baruch Goldstein happened.

Ah. Best not to promote mass murder on this board. Bad form. She did that? +/- 40,000 posts, +/- 4,000 karma. Ouch.

105 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:54:23pm

re: #101 Dianna

Can we just moan and cover our faces?

Sack cloth and ashes, tear the hair shirt and wail.

106 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:54:25pm

re: #94 Charles

There are none.

searching, searching....one man alone in the desert searching...hahaha...there must be one somewhere

107 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:54:25pm

re: #101 Dianna

Can we just moan and cover our faces?

/your face is un-covered?!

108 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:55:15pm

re: #89 baier

How are you?

109 Trapgun  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:55:34pm

It amazes me how the people who claim to have the franchise on truth (fundamentalists) can justify obfuscation and outright lying so easily.

110 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:55:38pm

re: #58 Dianna

Would you believe I thought about you quite a lot when I was away? I did. I quoted you once or twice, too, come to think of it.


Heh. Even if the quotes weren't complimentary I'm still flattered.

111 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:55:55pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

What if God made you sick in order to test your faith, but will cure you if you stand by and exhibit faith?

Someone just smack me, please.

How the Van Gundy boys ever became coaches in the NBA is beyond me. It would be like Screetch coaching the Raiders back in their glory days.

112 Van Helsing  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:56:00pm

Geez. Wouldn't believe it if I hadn't read it.
What an embarrassment.

113 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:56:48pm

re: #66 jaunte

I haven't heard a conservative talk radio personality yet who has gone beyond the "teach the controversy, and let the kids decide" level of thinking about this issue.

In my high school biology class (in Texas), the teacher mentioned, in about half a sentence, that evolution is controversial for some people....then proceeded to ignore creationism for the rest of the semester.

I haven't listened to any talk show hosts in a long time. If my experience is what they mean by that, then I think it is a realistic compromise.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:56:50pm

re: #104 austin_blue

Ah. Best not to promote mass murder on this board. Bad form. She did that? +/- 40,000 posts, +/- 4,000 karma. Ouch.

Yes, to sum up a long, brutal spiral of a thread.

115 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:57:09pm

re: #94 Charles

I hope conservatives will begin to understand that the radio talkers don't care if the Republicans win; they keep subjects like these in discussion on a low level because it helps their ratings to attract those who feel "intellectually bullied" by science.

116 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:57:21pm

re: #91 reine.de.tout

Don't forget the swan song where he was banned simply for disagreeing with Charles, ignoring the fact he was banned for being an ass.

117 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:57:24pm

re: #105 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sack cloth and ashes, tear the hair shirt and wail.

Yeah. Well. Every now and again, it does relieve the feelings.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:57:37pm

re: #105 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sack cloth and ashes, tear the hair shirt and wail.

Do you know how much a good hair shirt costs?

119 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:58:14pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you know how much a good hair shirt costs?

I grow my own...

120 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:58:37pm
This paragraph works great to marginalize the opposition, but it doesn’t do much at all to further the conversation.

Yeah- there's just something about marginalizing your opponent by damning them to Hell that has that *rare* ability to leave people speechless.

121 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:58:55pm

re: #98 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

The statement "This blog was so much better when ________" is the electronic equivalent of "Hey y'all! Watchi this!"

Or "Here, hold my beer." Even better is "You ain't gonna believe this shit!"

122 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:58:59pm

re: #107 brookly red

/your face is un-covered?!

After the last two weeks? Yep. At last.

BTW, ask RevoBob, if he shows up, how embarrassingly badly I shot at a shooting competition.

It came to mind because boy, was my face red!

123 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:59:24pm

re: #113 Dar ul Harbarian

There is a guy named Joe "Pags" Pagliarulo with a call-in show in Houston and San Antonio, who has talked about the issue. From what I heard, he took a populist approach and urged free discussion of all theories.

124 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:59:34pm

re: #119 brookly red

I grow my own...

I grow enough for a small village.

/ dang you stole my original line! No fair! FOUL! ;)

125 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:59:52pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Heh. Even if the quotes weren't complimentary I'm still flattered.

You should be - I said nice things about you, and pretty much everyone.

126 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 6:59:58pm

re: #122 Dianna

After the last two weeks? Yep. At last.

BTW, ask RevoBob, if he shows up, how embarrassingly badly I shot at a shooting competition.

It came to mind because boy, was my face red!

have you had an eye exam lately?

127 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:00:00pm

Unfortunately Anthony Cumia's internet show "Live From the Compound" may not last long. Link is not safe for work, lots of naughty language and raunchy talk but he's very conservative and not a creationist.

128 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:00:48pm

re: #125 Dianna

You should be - I said nice things about you, and pretty much everyone.

Should I be embarrassed ? ;)

129 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:01:52pm

re: #111 Truck Monkey

How the Van Gundy boys ever became coaches in the NBA is beyond me. It would be like Screetch coaching the Raiders back in their glory days.

I'll tell you how truck..Listen to the huddle during time outs..
We need more rebounds! Block somebody out!
Trust me..For 3-4 Million a year I could even think of one more thing to say..
I missed my calling in the modern day game..
/

130 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:02:44pm

I made a sale today. Probably not enough to prevent me from getting a real job but it's still good news anyways.

131 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:03:02pm

re: #121 Truck Monkey

Or "Here, hold my beer." Even better is "You ain't gonna believe this shit!"

"Ya think its loaded?"

132 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:03:26pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

I made a sale today. Probably not enough to prevent me from getting a real job but it's still good news anyways.

good for you...I'm working again myself

133 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:03:53pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

I made a sale today. Probably not enough to prevent me from getting a real job but it's still good news anyways.

That is good. I hope they tell their friends to buy two.

134 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:03:59pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

Yeah- there's just something about marginalizing your opponent by damning them to Hell that has that *rare* ability to leave people speechless.


When I can ban people to Hell..I'm quitting Blogging
/

135 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:04:08pm

re: #131 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

"Ya think its loaded?"

don't worry the saftey is on...

136 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:04:21pm

re: #131 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

"Ya think its loaded?"

"My parents aren't going to be home until waaaaaayyyyyy past midnight."

137 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:04:54pm

re: #126 brookly red

have you had an eye exam lately?

December. That wasn't the problem.

Part of it was that I'd never done a shooting match before. Part was that I was stressed. Part of it was that I completely lost control of my breathing and was jerking the trigger.

Mostly, it was because (as I was told) my shooting stance (which has worked for me at indoor ranges) is all (but all) wrong.

138 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:05:00pm

re: #132 albusteve

good for you...I'm working again myself

My goal in job hunting is to not take anything that has the remotest possibility of turning into a career. I hope I can get back to my business by Christmas.

139 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:05:35pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

Yeah- there's just something about marginalizing your opponent by damning them to Hell that has that *rare* ability to leave people speechless.

Is laughter considered speech?

140 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:05:39pm

No True Objective Scientist would ever exclude ID.....

141 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:06:10pm

re: #140 BigPapa

Strawman!
/

142 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:06:51pm
143 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:07:01pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

My goal in job hunting is to not take anything that has the remotest possibility of turning into a career. I hope I can get back to my business by Christmas.

ha!...I know what you mean...don't give up if you can possibly help it, lie and cheat if you have to...it will turn

144 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:07:08pm

re: #140 BigPapa

No True Objective Scientist would ever exclude ID.....

Sorry..They have too..There is no evidence of ID..

145 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:07:34pm

Related from Panda's Thumb: New evolution resource site online

146 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:07:43pm

No True Strawman would ever partake in an ID debate.....

147 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:08:53pm

re: #140 BigPapa

No True Objective Scientist would ever exclude ID.....

Remarkable claims require remarkable evidence.

148 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:09:04pm

Howdy y´all, from Asuncion, Paraguay.

Looks like rain.

149 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:09:21pm

IDers believe in micro debates, but not macro debates.

150 cronus  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:09:27pm

Ruh roh. An unfortunate convergence of two of my favorite sites, LGF and Redstate.

Please take a few moments to checkout the comments on that thread. I don't believe the ID advocates are carrying the day.

151 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:09:37pm

re: #148 Occasional Reader

Howdy y´all, from Asuncion, Paraguay.

Looks like rain.

Hola

152 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:09:53pm

re: #148 Occasional Reader

Howdy y´all, from Asuncion, Paraguay.

Looks like rain.

Wow! That is so freaking Cool...What's up down there?

153 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:09:57pm

re: #144 HoosierHoops

Sorry..They have too..There is no evidence of ID..

No no no... if I capitalize True, Objective, and Scientist, then there is no retort possible.

It's the Double Red Dog Dare of objective debate.

154 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:10:28pm

re: #148 Occasional Reader

Howdy y´all, from Asuncion, Paraguay.

Looks like rain.

What's in a name?

155 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:11:13pm

re: #101 Dianna

Can we just moan and cover our faces?

Now that sounds just plain dirty.
(or maybe it´s just me)

156 Red Pencil  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:11:24pm
Does that make germ theory was false, only does it mean the whole system was previously built on a faulty assumption?

I try to resist the impulse to harp on people's grammar and word usage... too much Internet, too little red pencil lead. Nevertheless I want to point out that this does not look like a sentence composed in English by a native speaker. It looks like a bad translation from another language, or something composed by an ESL student.

157 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:11:42pm

re: #151 Bloodnok

Hola


(flipping frantically through Spanish-English dictionary)

158 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #152 HoosierHoops

Wow! That is so freaking Cool...What's up down there?

The toilets flush in the opposite direction!

159 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:12:26pm

re: #153 BigPapa

No no no... if I capitalize True, Objective, and Scientist, then there is no retort possible.

It's the Double Red Dog Dare of objective debate.

LOL..I'm slow..I realized about 5 minutes ago you were cutting the debate with Wit..Sorry..LOL

160 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:12:31pm

re: #148 Occasional Reader

Howdy y´all, from Asuncion, Paraguay.

Looks like rain.

Quick. Go flush the toilet!

161 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:12:36pm

re: #157 Occasional Reader

(flipping frantically through Spanish-English dictionary)

how do you say Pizza Hut?

162 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:12:56pm

OT, but really funny. Someone at DU just called Kucinich "Moonbeam McCrazypants". A sign of intelligent life over there?

163 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:13:12pm

re: #154 jaunte

re: #148 Occasional Reader

Howdy y´all, from Asuncion, Paraguay.

Looks like rain.

What's in a name?

Indeed... and if it rains, I´ll need my Paraguas.

164 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:13:25pm

re: #158 Occasional Reader

The toilets flush in the opposite direction!

Don't make me come down there!
Hope you are well and enjoy yourself...
/Send home Supermodels

165 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #158 Occasional Reader

The toilets flush in the opposite direction!

EVIL!

166 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:13:53pm

re: #163 Occasional Reader

Indeed... and if it rains, I´ll need my Paraguas.

parasol...I'm good eh?

167 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:14:09pm

I'm pretty freaking anti-science right now. It took us three hours to build and paint that freaking volcano. We used river rocks to simulate boulders and glued on grass at the bottom. The "lava" will be the baking soda-detergent-water-vinegar concoction along with red food dye to make it look real. I HOPE it runs down the little gullies I etched out of the plaster. It was not nearly as much work as building the solar system, though. I even glued oats to dental floss to represent the meteor belt, and included several moons around Jupiter. Oh, Saturn's rings were a bitch to attach. I don't wanna' hear the phrases "science fair", "science project" and "book report" for a long time. For last year's final project, we made a topographical map of Iran--to scale--out of plaster of Paris. I hate math. I hate science. I hate education. I'm gonna' chew on some Basil Hayden's for a while.

168 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:14:31pm

re: #161 albusteve

how do you say Pizza Hut?

In Soviet Paraguay, Pizza the Hut sends out for you!

(combined Yakov Smirnov and Spaceballs reference)

169 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:14:51pm

re: #147 Dar ul Harbarian

Remarkable claims require remarkable evidence.

"You mean to tell me we came from a puddle of goo?"
"Don't tell me I came from some ape."
"Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!"

170 Unakite  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:14:53pm

OK,

I was perusing earlier threads for entertainment and relaxation and ran across this term, "hostotian." I don't know if I am one or not (assuming not, since I have no idea what it means). Any guesses?

171 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:15:34pm

re: #168 Occasional Reader

In Soviet Paraguay, Pizza the Hut sends out for you!

(combined Yakov Smirnov and Spaceballs reference)

I get the Smirnov part....

172 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:15:38pm

re: #164 HoosierHoops

Don't make me come down there!
Hope you are well and enjoy yourself...
/Send home Supermodels

Google "female paraguayan javelin thrower". Go ahead. Do it.

173 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:15:55pm

re: #148 Occasional Reader

Howdy y´all, from Asuncion, Paraguay.

Looks like rain.

Looks like a tight city on Google Earth. Interesting how across the river in Chile is nothing. What are you doing there?

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:16:11pm

re: #167 MandyManners

I'm pretty freaking anti-science right now. It took us three hours to build and paint that freaking volcano. We used river rocks to simulate boulders and glued on grass at the bottom. The "lava" will be the baking soda-detergent-water-vinegar concoction along with red food dye to make it look real. I HOPE it runs down the little gullies I etched out of the plaster. It was not nearly as much work as building the solar system, though. I even glued oats to dental floss to represent the meteor belt, and included several moons around Jupiter. Oh, Saturn's rings were a bitch to attach. I don't wanna' hear the phrases "science fair", "science project" and "book report" for a long time. For last year's final project, we made a topographical map of Iran--to scale--out of plaster of Paris. I hate math. I hate science. I hate education. I'm gonna' chew on some Basil Hayden's for a while.

There's a story in Michelle Serros' book, How To Be A Chicana Role Model, where she talks about working in a craft store in her twenties. Mom comes in with kid, buying supplies: "This is no way to build a solar system! At the last minute like this! Next time, you're on your own!"

A month later, Mom is back for more stuff. "This is no way to build the Mission San Buenaventura! At the last minute like this! Next time you're on your own!

175 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:16:39pm
176 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:05pm

re: #173 Naso Tang

Looks like a tight city on Google Earth. Interesting how across the river in Chile is nothing. What are you doing there?

annual poon hunt...."Hi honey!"

177 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:12pm

re: #155 Occasional Reader

I'm having internal connection issues, so forgive me if I'm weak on replies.

But I'm happy to see you!

178 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:23pm

re: #173 Naso Tang

Looks like a tight city on Google Earth. Interesting how across the river in Chile is nothing. What are you doing there?

If your version of Google Earth has Chile across the river from Paraguay, I think it's time you updated the dang thing.

I´m here on biz-niss. That´s all I´ll say.

179 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:36pm

re: #94 Charles

There are none.

And that is telling. Nobody can afford to do as much market research on his audience as Rush. He tailors his show to retain his demographic. Smart business move. He can't lose his audience. Hannity is the same way. Sad that the guys leading the charge for the 'Pubs in the public forum are high school graduates. I'm not belittling their intelligence, just their rigor of science.

180 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:40pm

re: #170 Unakite

OK,

I was perusing earlier threads for entertainment and relaxation and ran across this term, "hostotian." I don't know if I am one or not (assuming not, since I have no idea what it means). Any guesses?

Considering the source (conservapedia) I'll go with the basic assumption it means nutball

181 bobbuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:43pm

Conservatives are going to get hammered on this subject as long as we keep bringing it up. It would add a little perspective to the argument to run the numbers on how many holders of physical science and engineering degrees are conservative versus liberal. I'm guessing about 4 to 1, not the impression you'd get from following the evolution debate.

Anyway, the First Amendment prohibits the state from teaching children that their religion is wrong. If you go to the church of 2+2=5 then a state school must not teach 2+2=4. I don't see a way around this and even if you accept that the public schools are right and the religion is wrong how you know they'll be right on the next subject? Are religious folk more swayed by faith than politicians by polls?

182 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:52pm

re: #177 Dianna

I'm having internal connection issues,

Have you tried Metamucil?

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:17:54pm

re: #177 Dianna

I'm having internal connection issues, so forgive me if I'm weak on replies.

But I'm happy to see you!

Internal to you, or your computer? (She asks, with a worried face.)

184 Drudge Potato Al  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:18:52pm

It would be so much easier to comprehend this stuff if we didn't need to use a human brain to grasp it. Since we're wired toward task-based and result-oriented thinking, it's natural for some folks to conclude that the natural world has some type of deliberate guidance. Note that I said "some type" and not "God" as we know it.

The true answer to this is that it's very likely to be a combination of the two positions. I like to think that since we can absolutely observe mutations in a species over time that aspects of the evolutionary theory are absolutely correct. What cannot be proven (or disproven) is that environmental forces are the guiding roulette wheel for this process. What also cannot be proven (or disproven) is that we may be getting a peek inside "the toolbox" as to how species evolve. Any entity that has the capability of altering a species is not going to build one from scratch like assembling a steam engine.

What's an absolute certainty, though, is that within the next 50 years two things WILL occur.

1. There will eventually be satellite technology that will have detection capabilities for locating any fossil above a certain size and within a certain depth of rock. This will greatly help us with fleshing out the fossil record to locate additional transitional species. Will it be prohibitively expensive? Likely, but the technology will be there.

2. Computing power will also be strong enough to simulate enough of the natural world to mimic perfectly the conditions that evolution proponents maintain are causing natural selection. By the time that computing power arrives, we'll also know if there's another natural force that's guiding this process that we're currently unaware of.

We would all be better served, though, if scientific thinkers didn't go out of their way to remove religion from society and religious people from going out of their way to insert their religious views into scientific discourse.

In short, the topic doesn't need to resemble the abortion debate where both sides are guided by passion instead of reason and that's precisely what's occurring in this arena.

185 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:18:55pm
186 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:18:59pm

Damn! Mrs BigPapa summons for dinner.. BBIAW. Maybe in time for an overnight thread.....

187 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:19:01pm

re: #162 ArmyWife

OT, but really funny. Someone at DU just called Kucinich "Moonbeam McCrazypants". A sign of intelligent life over there?

Wonder how long till that account is suspended?

188 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:19:24pm

re: #181 bobbuck

If a private school teaches 2+2=5, it will not get accreditation.

189 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:19:52pm

Dinner!

190 cronus  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:19:57pm

re: #145 Sharmuta

Related from Panda's Thumb: New evolution resource site online

Thanks Sharm, this will come in handy. This also goes without saying but Talk Origins is simply an invaluable resource. It is amazing how many creationist arguments you can simultaneously rebut using that site. Have made liberal use of it over the last couple days.

191 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:20:09pm

re: #178 Occasional Reader

If your version of Google Earth has Chile across the river from Paraguay, I think it's time you updated the dang thing.

I´m here on biz-niss. That´s all I´ll say.

Quite right. Just testing your CIA skills.

192 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:20:30pm

re: #181 bobbuck

Conservatives are going to get hammered on this subject as long as we keep bringing it up. It would add a little perspective to the argument to run the numbers on how many holders of physical science and engineering degrees are conservative versus liberal. I'm guessing about 4 to 1, not the impression you'd get from following the evolution debate.

Anyway, the First Amendment prohibits the state from teaching children that their religion is wrong. If you go to the church of 2+2=5 then a state school must not teach 2+2=4. I don't see a way around this and even if you accept that the public schools are right and the religion is wrong how you know they'll be right on the next subject? Are religious folk more swayed by faith than politicians by polls?

So the answer is to ignore it? Uh, no.

how you know they'll be right on the next subject?

If the science proves the next subject out, it's right.

193 Cobdenite  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:21:00pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Science is the product of the minds of men.

[cough] So is the Bible [/cough]

194 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:21:04pm

re: #167 MandyManners

I'm pretty freaking anti-science right now. It took us three hours to build and paint that freaking volcano. We used river rocks to simulate boulders and glued on grass at the bottom. The "lava" will be the baking soda-detergent-water-vinegar concoction along with red food dye to make it look real. I HOPE it runs down the little gullies I etched out of the plaster. It was not nearly as much work as building the solar system, though. I even glued oats to dental floss to represent the meteor belt, and included several moons around Jupiter. Oh, Saturn's rings were a bitch to attach. I don't wanna' hear the phrases "science fair", "science project" and "book report" for a long time. For last year's final project, we made a topographical map of Iran--to scale--out of plaster of Paris. I hate math. I hate science. I hate education. I'm gonna' chew on some Basil Hayden's for a while.

If you can get potassium permanganate, that stuff is just sooo freaking cool!

195 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:21:22pm

re: #191 Naso Tang

Quite right. Just testing your CIA skills.

Put it this way; once my job here is finished, Paraguay WILL be across the river from Chile.

bwaaaahahahahahhaaa....

196 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:21:43pm

re: #142 taxfreekiller

The Democrat Party works at proving up their love of lies and liars.

Put another way, the Democrat Party is "anti-truth", it is their core.

John F. Kerry
Nancy Pelosi
Barney Frank
Chris Dodd
Dick Durbin
B. Obama
Joe Biden
Harry Reid

The associates of the Democrat Party too, work by the hour at "anti-truth", CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, CNN, NYT, LAT, KOS KIDS KULT, MOVEON ITS OUR WAY and other attendants of lies and fraud.

Without truth, you only have darkness and tyranny.

Well, you could probably throw Fox and the majority of the Conservative media who have ethics in there with that bunch. Unfortunately, that leaves you with Troofers, Alex Jones, Ron Paul, and the Reverend Moon.

197 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:21:45pm

God created everything a looooooong time ago. We have been evolving ever since.

Its not hard to grasp. Dude is powerful.

198 formercorpsman  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:21:46pm

If this is not a waste of time:

[Link: wcbstv.com...]

199 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:22:23pm

Yet another tortured view that evolution revolves around rhetorical devices, threats and intimidation by "the left." This was last seen when Melanie Phillips compared it to an inquisition of sorts and now we see it presented in a similar manner by an unknown pastor, James Powers. Here he sees the counter to so called intelligent design as an essential liberal or leftist act. A recent comment of his in the comments section of his article at Red State reflects this further:

Intelligent design is a great tool to draw it out. You should have seen my inbox this morning, I was absolutely savaged! It made the point, the left is generally incapable of holding a civilized conversation without it degenerating.

The might Scotsman show his face yet again. Powers here assumes that those filling his inbox are leftists using a logical fallacy akin to "all bad things are leftist therefore all bad emails are from leftists. Of course the title itself casts all that refute intelligent design as "Liberals."

Like many in the intelligent design movement, Powers defines it as science. He also expresses his desire that the study of biology and evolution should include intelligent design. There are standards of practice in science known as "the scientific method." To date no intelligent design paper or study has been submitted to the scientific community that even remotely resembles a scientific study let alone one that has been subjected to peer review.

200 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:22:36pm

re: #184 Drudge Potato Al

Spot on! That 's exactly how I feel. There should be a disclaimer, since many scientific thinkers don't want to take religion out of society. But there are some that do and you are right that it would be better for them to back off a bit.

201 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:22:41pm

re: #197 Racer X

God created everything a looooooong time ago. We have been evolving ever since.

So why didn't he just get us right in the first place?

202 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:22:55pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a story in Michelle Serros' book, How To Be A Chicana Role Model, where she talks about working in a craft store in her twenties. Mom comes in with kid, buying supplies: "This is no way to build a solar system! At the last minute like this! Next time, you're on your own!"

A month later, Mom is back for more stuff. "This is no way to build the Mission San Buenaventura! At the last minute like this! Next time you're on your own!

I rarely need to buy stuff for projects 'cause I'm pretty well stocked with craft crap.

203 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:23:07pm

re: #184 Drudge Potato Al

who's removing religion from society?...the fight is now, not fifty years from now...Creationism as science needs to be debunked now

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:23:11pm

re: #181 bobbuck


Anyway, the First Amendment prohibits the state from teaching children that their religion is wrong. If you go to the church of 2+2=5 then a state school must not teach 2+2=4.

As far as I'm aware, the First Amendment prohibits no such thing. Can you give me some case law on this interpretation?

205 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:23:14pm
206 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:23:35pm

re: #194 Alouette

If you can get potassium permanganate, that stuff is just sooo freaking cool!

Mongo like pomegranate!

207 irish rose  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:23:54pm

The GOP hasn't just lost its' way, Charles... it's lost it's collective effing mind.

For the first time in many years, I'm seriously thinking of abandoning the party altogether... it has come to that. I honestly have no wish to be associated with a party that coddles extremism and promotes ignorance, and sadly this is exactly what the GOP has become.

208 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:23:57pm

Fox News tonight is pushing one "culture war" story after another. There's a huge effort under way to force the GOP much farther to the right.

209 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:24:02pm

re: #194 Alouette

If you can get potassium permanganate, that stuff is just sooo freaking cool!

We're going with the baking soda stuff. What does the potasium stuff do?

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:24:09pm

re: #187 BlueCanuck

Wonder how long till that account is suspended?

Dunno what the atmosphere is like over there, but none of the Democrats I know would say such a kind thing about Kucinich.

211 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:24:26pm

re: #201 Occasional Reader

So why didn't he just get us right in the first place?

The same reason he decided that T-Rex's arms were too short..
You go with the flow..
/

212 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:24:45pm

re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist

As far as I'm aware, the First Amendment prohibits no such thing. Can you give me some case law on this interpretation?

I'm still scratching my head over that.

213 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:24:52pm

Hard to win an election when hung with the reputation of denying observable reality.

214 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:24:55pm
Is there any chance that an impartial, unbiased scientists would allow room for Intelligent Design?

I'm sure they would- provided there was some supporting empirical evidence, so there is that catch. I'm starting to think these people just don't like that science comes with the catches of empirical evidence, and functioning hypotheses, and the like. Finding the rules don't favor them, they seek to completely alter them.

This may work in other political endeavors, but it won't work with science. In this instance, defending the scientific method is very much like defending the rule of law. That these two hallmarks of the Enlightenment are under attack should come as no surprise, as undermining the frameworks of these two ideals is the best way to destroy them and individual rights. Those defending these ideals are to be commended.

215 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:25:00pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno what the atmosphere is like over there, but none of the Democrats I know would say such a kind thing about Kucinich.

He's quiet, and doesn't eat too much?

thats all I've got.

216 doppelganglander  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:25:06pm

This is only slightly off topic. The June issue of Reader's Digest has a great article on what they call "celebrity science." Featured prominently: Jenny McCarthy and her idiotic anti-vax crusade. RD comes down hard on the side of the facts. As a bonus, it covers Oprah's promotion of bio-identical hormone replacement for menopausal women (they are no better than regular hormones, and all hormone replacement therapy should be closely monitored by your doctor).

217 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:25:23pm

re: #206 Occasional Reader

Mongo like pomegranate!

Oh, no. A fart thread.

218 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:25:53pm
219 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:26:10pm

re: #150 cronus

Ruh roh. An unfortunate convergence of two of my favorite sites, LGF and Redstate.

Please take a few moments to checkout the comments on that thread. I don't believe the ID advocates are carrying the day.

Seems to be a divergence, not a convergence. Charles keeps lgf firmly on the path of rationality, and the rest of the right-wing blogosphere wants to fly around like a deflating balloon.

220 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:26:15pm

re: #207 irish rose

The GOP hasn't just lost its' way, Charles... it's lost it's collective effing mind.

For the first time in many years, I'm seriously thinking of abandoning the party altogether... it has come to that. I honestly have no wish to be associated with a party that coddles extremism and promotes ignorance, and sadly this is exactly what the GOP has become.

you might never have affiliated yourself with them to begin with....the GOP is dirt but conservatism still has a fighting chance

221 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:26:22pm

re: #217 MandyManners

Oh, no. A fart thread.

No, that scene with Slim Pickens, not Mongo

222 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:26:30pm

re: #201 Occasional Reader

So why didn't he just get us right in the first place?

Watchu mean? He did. He set in motion things that got us where we are Right Here, Right Now.

223 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:26:51pm

re: #216 doppelganglander

This is only slightly off topic. The June issue of Reader's Digest has a great article on what they call "celebrity science." Featured prominently: Jenny McCarthy and her idiotic anti-vax crusade. RD comes down hard on the side of the facts. As a bonus, it covers Oprah's promotion of bio-identical hormone replacement for menopausal women (they are no better than regular hormones, and all hormone replacement therapy should be closely monitored by your doctor).

This is good to hear.

224 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:26:57pm

re: #208 Charles

Fox News tonight is pushing one "culture war" story after another. There's a huge effort under way to force the GOP much farther to the right.

I have never been affiliated with any party, but I almost want to join the Republicans in the hope I might be able to pull them back from the abyss.

225 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:27:06pm

re: #208 Charles

Fox News tonight is pushing one "culture war" story after another. There's a huge effort under way to force the GOP much farther to the right.

What sort of stories? Some 'culture war' stories are quite valid and worth making GOP causes.

226 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:27:14pm
227 ladycatnip  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:27:19pm

#196 austin_blue

Well, you could probably throw Fox and the majority of the Conservative media who have ethics in there with that bunch. Unfortunately, that leaves you with Troofers, Alex Jones, Ron Paul, and the Reverend Moon.

On my way to work I was channel surfing the radio, came to Hannity just as he was saying he was going to have Pat Buchanan on in the next hour. Hannity and Pat Buchanan? Pat's a mind-numbing Holocaust denier. I just don't get my conservative party any more. Needless to say, I kept surfing.

228 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:27:35pm

I'm very tired (in the immortal words of the Beatles... or maybe it was I bury Paul?).

So, good night.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:27:39pm

re: #215 Altermite

He's quiet, and doesn't eat too much?

thats all I've got.

He must be good in bed or have amazing hypnotic powers. Have you seen Mrs. Kucinich?

230 Kragar  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:27:47pm

re: #217 MandyManners

Oh, no. A fart thread.

More beans Mr Taggart?

231 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:28:20pm

re: #228 Occasional Reader

I'm very tired (in the immortal words of the Beatles... or maybe it was I bury Paul?).

So, good night.

Good Night!
Be safe OR

232 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:28:27pm

re: #209 MandyManners

We're going with the baking soda stuff. What does the potasium stuff do?

Makes an awesome lava flow!

233 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:28:36pm
234 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:28:39pm

re: #205 taxfreekiller

pointing fingers back or at others does not reduce the lies and fraud of the Democrat party does it?

Lots of lies to around, TFK. You have still aligned yourself with the fringe. Not right, not wrong, just a fact.

235 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:28:53pm

re: #213 jaunte

Hard to win an election when hung with the reputation of denying observable reality.

Why? The democrats do it.

236 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:29:45pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

He must be good in bed or have amazing hypnotic powers. Have you seen Mrs. Kucinich?

I was hoping he ripped off Cleveland for 20 million bucks..Else..I'm pretty bummed

237 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:29:47pm

re: #184 Drudge Potato Al

A lot of words to say absolutely nothing constructive. I'm impressed.

238 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:29:52pm

re: #201 Occasional Reader

So why didn't he just get us right in the first place?

It's like growing crystals, except more fun. :)

/wait a second. Isn't DNA a form of crystals?

239 Cobdenite  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:08pm

re: #4 jvic

Incidentally, what "realityunwound" fails to mention (or is most likely too deeply sucked into his own ignorance to know), is that there was very little science at all in medicine before the germ theory. Certainly, Harvey and Boyle experimented in blood circulation and other methodologies, but these really wouldn't influence medicine as it was practiced for a hundred years. Only by very slow steps, through the accidental discovery of immunization in the early 18th century, and anesthesia and germs in the 19th, were any real advances made.

It's ridiculous to say that the vast panoply of folk remedies, Hellenic guesses and Renaissance theories which constituted early modern medicine were really a scientific "premise" that could be compared against the later successes of medicine.

240 doppelganglander  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:08pm

re: #223 MandyManners

This is good to hear.

I thought so, too. RD is read by everyone who goes to a doctor's office. If I were a pediatrician, I'd have the article blown up about 1,000% and posted in every exam room.

241 swamprat  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:10pm

re: #179 austin_blue

And that is telling. Nobody can afford to do as much market research on his audience as Rush. He tailors his show to retain his demographic. Smart business move. He can't lose his audience. Hannity is the same way. Sad that the guys leading the charge for the 'Pubs in the public forum are high school graduates. I'm not belittling their intelligence, just their rigor of science.

Don't get your news from entertainment.
Don't get your religion in school.
Don't get your science in church.
Don't get the fish plate at the freeway diner.
Don't get your credit cards from the nice people who send them to you in the mail.
Don't buy your guitars at walmart.

242 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:12pm

re: #235 Truck Monkey

I'm not finding that a good reason to follow suit.

243 Red Pencil  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:16pm

re: #181 bobbuck


Anyway, the First Amendment prohibits the state from teaching children that their religion is wrong. If you go to the church of 2+2=5 then a state school must not teach 2+2=4. I don't see a way around this

That is a grotesque misinterpretation of the First Amendment.

The First Amendment prohibits the state from (among other things) teaching religion. It does not prohibit the state or its employees from hurting the feelings of practitioners of any religion. Thank goodness.

244 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:34pm
245 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:38pm

Speaking of creating incentives to buy homes and renegotiating mortgages

May 12 (Bloomberg) -- Home prices in the U.S. dropped the most on record in the first quarter from a year earlier, led by California and Florida, as banks sold foreclosed properties.

The median price fell 14 percent to $169,000, the National Association of Realtors said today. Prices dropped in 134 of 152 metropolitan areas, with the deepest declines in Cape Coral and Ft. Myers, Florida, followed by San Francisco and San Jose.

246 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:30:40pm

re: #184 Drudge Potato Al

What does the abortion debate have to do with this?

247 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:31:01pm

re: #241 swamprat

Don't get your news from entertainment.
Don't get your religion in school.
Don't get your science in church.
Don't get the fish plate at the freeway diner.
Don't get your credit cards from the nice people who send them to you in the mail.
Don't buy your guitars at walmart.

Exactly.

248 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:31:05pm

re: #232 Alouette

Makes an awesome lava flow!

There is a really dirty joke in here somewhere......; )

249 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:31:30pm
250 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:31:54pm

re: #234 austin_blue

Lots of lies to around, TFK. You have still aligned yourself with the fringe. Not right, not wrong, just a fact.

To *go* around

≤p≥Doh!

251 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:31:58pm

re: #237 FurryOldGuyJeans

Predicting that computers will discover God in the next 50 years is pretty Nostradamusey, though.

252 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:32:23pm
253 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:33:24pm
254 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:34:10pm

re: #247 austin_blue

Exactly.

welcome out...

255 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:34:11pm

re: #251 jaunte

Predicting that computers will discover God in the next 50 years is pretty Nostradamusey, though.

Sounds more Edgar Cayce-ish.

256 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:34:22pm

re: #246 Sharmuta

What does the abortion debate have to do with this?

He's saying that he does not want evolution to end up as toxic as abortion as an issue. I tend to agree, since I do have hope that the extreme creationists can be marginalized and the rest brought around.

257 formercorpsman  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:35:16pm

This will bite the GOP on the ass in the next election.

Seriously think about this.

The guy who made the asinine comment about a tingle up his leg from seeing Obama was able to make a pretty heavy hitting Republican squirm in his seat.

The guy with the tingle up his leg had the upper hand in that scenario.

The tingle up his leg.

258 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:35:46pm
259 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:35:52pm

I had a somewhat upsetting experience a few (satuday) nights ago. I met a girl at a party, and discovered that she was an IDer- or at least thought ID was supportable.

I was slightly relieved and slightly bothered when I found out she didn't actually understand what ID was, and was instead describing a theistic view of evolution.

260 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:35:56pm

re: #209 MandyManners

We're going with the baking soda stuff. What does the potasium stuff do?

My husband used to teach chemistry and he used permanganate to demonstrate volcanic eruptions. That was 20 years ago. Now they are saying it's too dangerous.

261 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:35:56pm

re: #208 Charles

Fox News tonight is pushing one "culture war" story after another. There's a huge effort under way to force the GOP much farther to the right.

I dare you to go to the fox forum and look at the comments some time

262 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:36:15pm
263 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:36:15pm

re: #253 Killgore Trout

That yeti crab was cool.

The "hairy" pincers contain filamentous bacteria, which the creature may use to detoxify poisonous minerals from the water emitted by the hydrothermal vents where it lives. Alternatively, it may feed on bacteria, although it is generally thought to be a carnivore.[2] Its diet also consists of green algae and small shrimp.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
264 swamprat  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:36:38pm

re: #201 Occasional Reader

So why didn't he just get us right in the first place?

He wanted to give you something to doubt about.

265 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:36:41pm

Some light reading before bed:

Gödel's ontological proof

266 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:37:11pm

re: #241 swamprat

Don't get your news from entertainment.
Don't get your religion in school.
Don't get your science in church.
Don't get the fish plate at the freeway diner.
Don't get your credit cards from the nice people who send them to you in the mail.
Don't buy your guitars at walmart.

Don’t tug on Superman’s cape.
Don’t spit into the wind.
Don’t pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger.
Don’t mess around with Jim.

267 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:37:25pm

re: #256 Dark_Falcon

The interesting thing is that it's biology, and evolution, that shows the power of life and how that amazing process, in all its forms, begins at conception.

Pro-lifers do themselves a disservice to undermine the very education that promotes their belief.

268 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:38:30pm
269 ihateronpaul  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:38:38pm

I think it is hilarious how the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin moan about the characterization of the republicans as anti-science in one breath, and "those damn ID-hating atheist libs" in the next. Really now, I think that these talk show hosts will do no good for the party. They are out for ratings, not for rational discourse. The more inflammatory the discussion, the better. That is why Mark Levin screamed out that caller that said ID shouldn't be taught in schools. He mentioned something along the lines of "our interpretation of facts." What does that mean? That Conservapedia should be printed out and used as a textbook? No thanks.

-a first time posting social liberal (oh the horror!) that happens to listen to a lot of talk radio.

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:38:42pm

re: #259 Altermite

I had a somewhat upsetting experience a few (satuday) nights ago. I met a girl at a party, and discovered that she was an IDer- or at least thought ID was supportable.

I was slightly relieved and slightly bothered when I found out she didn't actually understand what ID was, and was instead describing a theistic view of evolution.

I have a theistic view of evolution, and I can't figure out what the hell ID IS. It makes no sense to me.

271 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:39:06pm

re: #259 Altermite

I had a somewhat upsetting experience a few (satuday) nights ago. I met a girl at a party, and discovered that she was an IDer- or at least thought ID was supportable.

I was slightly relieved and slightly bothered when I found out she didn't actually understand what ID was, and was instead describing a theistic view of evolution.

Next time: don't try to figure her out...just poor another beer.

272 formercorpsman  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:39:18pm

re: #266 NJDhockeyfan

Even if you do got a two piece custom made pool cue

273 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:39:21pm

re: #249 taxfreekiller

Democrats not fringe?

re: #249 taxfreekiller

Democrats not fringe?

No. Not any more. Are there fringe Dems? You betcha. They can be found spouting bullshit every day on HuffPo or any other various boards. Idiots. Kids in their underwear in the basement (the 'Pubs have their share, too). But by and large, the 'Pubs have done a very good job of scaring off the middle. The Dems have done a good job of sucking them in. It's the Dark Teatime of the Soul for the 'Pubs. I hope they get their shit together.

274 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:39:31pm

re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist

If it remains undefined, the tent is bigger.

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:40:16pm

re: #274 jaunte

If it remains undefined, the tent is bigger.

I don't care how big the tent is. I've seen the people going inside. I'm just going to sit here on this rock and develop gills or something.

276 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:40:30pm

re: #258 Bloodnok

Nice!

277 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:40:49pm

re: #269 ihateronpaul

ho hum...can't you people come up with anything original?

278 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:41:00pm
279 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:41:30pm

re: #262 taxfreekiller

air force uh,

do your student pilot work at Sheppard Field near Wichita Falls Tx.?

UPT at Laughlin. Flew tankers at KI Sawyer.

280 ihateronpaul  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:41:53pm

re: #277 albusteve

"you people"? You say that like I am a staunch liberal. Have fun in the big tent.

281 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:42:03pm

re: #273 austin_blue

No. Not any more. Are there fringe Dems? You betcha. They can be found spouting bullshit every day on HuffPo or any other various boards. Idiots. Kids in their underwear in the basement (the 'Pubs have their share, too). But by and large, the 'Pubs have done a very good job of scaring off the middle. The Dems have done a good job of sucking them in. It's the Dark Teatime of the Soul for the 'Pubs. I hope they get their shit together.

what's fringe and how is TFK fringe?

282 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:42:27pm

re: #267 Sharmuta

The interesting thing is that it's biology, and evolution, that shows the power of life and how that amazing process, in all its forms, begins at conception.

Pro-lifers do themselves a disservice to undermine the very education that promotes their belief.

Upding! Very well said.

283 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:42:30pm

re: #275 SanFranciscoZionist

I used to wonder why the DI people and other IDers were reluctant to define exactly what ID was, but if they do, they immediately splinter the movement.

284 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:42:48pm

re: #252 taxfreekiller

TFK, I bet your really fun at a BBQ.

285 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:42:51pm

re: #253 Killgore Trout

Cool pics of sea critters......
Creatures of the deep: What lurks in the depths of the ocean?

If I was a creationist I would describe them as God's doodles.

286 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:42:57pm

Paulians now? Anyone wanna support Eurofascists while we're making the rounds?

287 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:43:22pm

And to think, at this moment we have seven people in space repairing and upgrading the Hubble so we can explore the deepest mysteries of our Universe and its origins. The men and women on the good ship Atlantis all come from the same country that produced idiocy like the redstate screed... Unbelievable.

288 AFVetWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:43:29pm

re: #12 LSD
Exactly! This is not an either/or debate. I am a Christian, and I believe in evolution. I also believe that evolution was designed/begun by the Creator. I further believe that He inspired all scientific discovery of His grand plan for all of life. I'm really mystified by the apparent division between "Darwin/evolution" only, and "creationism" only. Why can't we see one (evolution) as the inevitable product of the other (creator-designed)? I am forever fascinated by all the scientific discoveries in our world, and forever in awe of THE ONE who created that first spark!
As a relatively new Lizard, I hope that my honest and heartfelt comments will not be received in a bad light. I read this site for a long time before I happened upon the opportunity to register. I admire the forthright opinions offered here, and I feel honored to be able to comment on this forum.

289 formercorpsman  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:44:11pm

re: #287 Pawn of the Oppressor

Heard just how dangerous that mission is.

Nerves of steel.

290 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:44:30pm

re: #269 ihateronpaul


-a first time posting social liberal (oh the horror!) that happens to listen to a lot of talk radio.

Not enough social liberals on the right IMHO.

291 albusteve  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #280 ihateronpaul

"you people"? You say that like I am a staunch liberal. Have fun in the big tent.

I didn't label you...you just did...I don't believe in a big tent or any other memes...I am not a childs of the MSM and it's polls

292 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:46:42pm
293 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:46:43pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

Kind of hypocritical to be pro-life on one hand and anti-biology on the other.

294 Unakite  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:47:14pm

re: #158 Occasional Reader

The toilets flush in the opposite direction!

What, the water comes up?

295 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:47:24pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

Very good, that's what it says on the box - science is never absolute.

It's just the best we have.

296 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:47:42pm
297 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:48:01pm

re: #281 albusteve

what's fringe and how is TFK fringe?

I only ask that you review TFK's posts on taxes and economic policy and Ron Paul's and find a space where a single sheet of paper can slide between the two. Does that mean that I am comparing the rest of the lunacy of Paul on TFK? No. But as far as Libertarian economic policy, he is #1 on the board.

298 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:48:04pm

Meanwhile in FL the Senate primaries are shaping up and you have a Moderate, Governor Charles Crist vs. a DI populist, Marco Rubio. Marco's pushed DI stuff in the FL legislature. The ads are already coming out and they are heating up the RINO branding iron for Crist, even though he's pro life, pro death penalty, pro gun, against gay marriage, etc. It will be interesting to watch that.

Crist was on the opposite side from Jeb Bush in the Schaivo case, and he's in favor of research Universities, he must be a RINO....

If Rubio wins the primary it's highly unlikely that he will win against the Dem., can we afford to lose another R senate seat?

299 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:48:12pm

re: #293 Sharmuta

Kind of hypocritical to be pro-life on one hand and anti-biology on the other.

Forget walking and chewing gum at the same time, I find it hard they can do one or the other singly.

300 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:49:00pm
And remember, this was elevated to the front page at RedState. This is why so many people believe the GOP has a problem with science — because it does.

I seem to have wandered into an alternate reality. Charles, big thanks for staying on this. When the New Dark Ages close in, and we no longer use electric power because it's convenient delivery is a product of the minds of men, I'll tell the young'ns around the campfire, that once there was a fleeting glimpse of glory, called LGF.

301 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:49:37pm

re: #259 Altermite

I had a somewhat upsetting experience a few (satuday) nights ago. I met a girl at a party, and discovered that she was an IDer- or at least thought ID was supportable.

I was slightly relieved and slightly bothered when I found out she didn't actually understand what ID was, and was instead describing a theistic view of evolution.

I think many people are as you described here - which is to say, uninformed.

The challenge - the Discovery Institute, which is deeply involved in getting this stuff promoted in states and getting legislation passed to teach this - their intention is to basically teach a version of Christian religious belief in schools, via 'science' classes. People should really be referred to the Wedge Document, be sure they look at it and check out the short-term and long-term goals. It's scary stuff. That's what the creationism/ID debate is really about, but so many people are uninformed.

I know I was, until Charles started posting these threads and I followed the links.

302 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:51:13pm
303 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:51:49pm

re: #253 Killgore Trout

Your link to teh sea kitties was excellent! Thank you!

304 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:52:19pm

re: #292 taxfreekiller

Many a one who voted for Obama lacks the brain power to learn personal responsibility, and it is to late for many now.

Votes for the dole money and the union wages and John Murtha pork will end freedom much sooner than any one can imagine.

Lies kill freedom.

Sweet! I am struck to the core......

305 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:52:29pm
306 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:53:58pm

re: #269 ihateronpaul

WELCOME!

307 swamprat  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:54:18pm

re: #304 austin_blue

I think you found your "sheet of paper".

308 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:54:24pm

What in hell am I going to do come 2012 and we run Huckabee or some other nut for prez? So far none of my local reps have gone ID mad, my senators are both west of the Cascades, Puget Sound, I-5 corridor moonbat libs. So there's no choice there. The donks stole the governors race here in WA.

309 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:54:36pm

re: #296 taxfreekiller

can a pig plane take off with just three going,,,?

My boom operator used to say that he was he only guy in the military who had three officers drive him to work. He was right

310 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:54:47pm
311 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:54:58pm

re: #298 Thanos

Crist should win. He's a very popular man in FL. He has a lot of liberal views, hence the Schiavo decision, and some others. As to gay marriage, he signed the ban, but it's not one of his "pet projects". In fact, he asked the GOP to stop funding it as an issue. He preferred to focus on Florida problems, namely insurance and property taxes.

312 Drudge Potato Al  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:55:43pm

re: #237 FurryOldGuyJeans

Thanks man! I accomplished my goal! Actually, it's my very first comment post on LGF. This topic is so esoteric, it's impossible to be constructive. Or obstructive. What do you think about my technology calls?

313 persian shoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:56:12pm

Hey folks,

OT
According to a letter from the FDA General Mills' advertising violates the federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. The agency said claims that Cheerios ingredients can lower cholesterol within a certain amount of time, all while providing cancer-fighting and heart-healthy benefits, essentially makes Cheerios "a drug" by their definition. And no drug in this country can be legally marketed without an approved new drug application.

My fucking head is about to explode.

314 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:56:27pm

re: #298 Thanos

Meanwhile in FL the Senate primaries are shaping up and you have a Moderate, Governor Charles Crist vs. a DI populist, Marco Rubio. Marco's pushed DI stuff in the FL legislature.


Good read about the issue
here..

315 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:56:31pm

Five years ago tonight, actually, I was taking the very first photographs of a slime covered, hungry little girl that didn't very much enjoy her new surroundings. And to think- even before she was born, she was equipped with continuing the process of life. That's what science has taught me- life is incredible.

Happy Birthday, Boop. Love, Auntie Shar

316 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:56:35pm

re: #289 formercorpsman

Heard just how dangerous that mission is.

Nerves of steel.

I saw a bit on the teevee a while back about going up to Hubble - interviewee was a female astronaut who had been up to it (Shannon Lucid maybe? I can't recall) and she said (I'm paraphrasing) "It doesn't give you a good feeling when you arrive at Hubble and your fuel indicators say 49%".

High orbit, hot and steep re-entry, increased space junk collision risk, no ISS to lifeboat in - but that's all been done three times already. Then there are FIVE spacewalks in just 11 days, back to back, including disassembly of one of the instruments for internal servicing which involves removing something like 100+ fasteners, and moving around refrigerator-sized instrument palettes, and other fun things.

I should have upgraded my cable package to watch this mission.

317 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:57:06pm

The stupid in that `Debunking Evolution' link is stunning. It's denser than neutronium. It warps not only minds, but space itself.

"If evolution were real, we'd see animals with all sorts of useless, half-made parts." An eye without any eyelid, perhaps? (the pits of a pit viper) A hand without an opposable thumb, perhaps? (Various apes.) Legs that don't even extend outside the body? (Whales). Tails likewise? (Humans). The list is endless. As to parts that actually show up in the animal, they always had their current use. The wings of the earliest birds, or the latest pre-birds, however you want to put it, would have had their use in helping the animal keep its balance and make fast turns while running. A roadrunner has wings, damnit! Feathers serve as insulation, so flight feathers aren't a great leap starting from nowhere. A batch of extended, interlocking feathers on a running bird could have served to help the bird net flying insects.

The earliest bats didn't have bat sonar. They just had to hunt by flying through dense clouds of insects at dusk. Or maybe it wasn't hunting. Flying to this and that fruit, by smell, dodging trees by some trick of ordinary good hearing, might be safer than dodging hawks by day.

(Today, there are blind men who can walk a city street that is new to them and detect parked cars and macro-obstacles such as trash cans, by clicking their tongues and listening closely to how the sound reflects.) In the land of the deaf, the one-eared bat is King...evolution doesn't need Great Leaps Forward to get rich slowly.

Unfortunately, stupid arguments are often appealing arguments. Correct logic requires such rigorous attention to detail. It's much harder to make a splash---you have to trump Newton or something to do that, and how many Einsteins do we get? But a stupid argument immediately stirs the pot. People notice. If it's stupid, mendacious, and superficially appealing, camp followers materialize. They can win their 15 minutes of vicarious fame by showing off their superior ignorance, as though it were knowledge. This is much easier than actually learning some biology.

The struggle with inanity is endless and unwinnable. It's a sisyphean task. But it's losable. Shirk thy duty and let that rock get all the way down the hill, and it's tough to get it out of the muck and back on the slope.

318 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:57:09pm
319 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:57:15pm

re: #298 Thanos

BTW, look to Crist to make a run for the Whitehouse one of these days.

320 Drudge Potato Al  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:58:34pm

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

Thanks man. That was my very first LGF comment. Kinda wordy. Will work on that for the next one.

321 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:58:59pm

re: #302 taxfreekiller

how much is your 20 year and out check and have you made civil service retirement checks yet also.....going for the triple dip?

Sorry, dude, did six years in the AF and out. No double dipping here. You are just *looking* for a fight aren't you? I won't play. Twelve years in industry, eleven with the State as a first responder.

322 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:59:14pm

re: #288 AFVetWife

Exactly! This is not an either/or debate. I am a Christian, and I believe in evolution. I also believe that evolution was designed/begun by the Creator. I further believe that He inspired all scientific discovery of His grand plan for all of life. I'm really mystified by the apparent division between "Darwin/evolution" only, and "creationism" only. Why can't we see one (evolution) as the inevitable product of the other (creator-designed)? I am forever fascinated by all the scientific discoveries in our world, and forever in awe of THE ONE who created that first spark!

Speaking as an atheist, I have absolutely no problem with your viewpoint. At my work, I have known people who are both highly technical and religiously observant. They all said exactly the same thing that you did: that there is no conflict between religion and science, and that learning more about the natural world advanced their faith.

As a relatively new Lizard, I hope that my honest and heartfelt comments will not be received in a bad light. I read this site for a long time before I happened upon the opportunity to register. I admire the forthright opinions offered here, and I feel honored to be able to comment on this forum.

Since no one else has yet, I'll welcome you. I haven't been posting here long, and this place is kind of rough on newbies sometimes. :)

323 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:59:21pm
324 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:59:29pm

re: #298 Thanos

Meanwhile in FL the Senate primaries are shaping up and you have a Moderate, Governor Charles Crist vs. a DI populist, Marco Rubio. Marco's pushed DI stuff in the FL legislature. The ads are already coming out and they are heating up the RINO branding iron for Crist, even though he's pro life, pro death penalty, pro gun, against gay marriage, etc. It will be interesting to watch that.

Crist was on the opposite side from Jeb Bush in the Schaivo case, and he's in favor of research Universities, he must be a RINO....

If Rubio wins the primary it's highly unlikely that he will win against the Dem., can we afford to lose another R senate seat?

Interesting. I haven't been paying much attention to that.

Search for "Max Alvarez" and "Marco Rubio."

Also search for "Marco Rubio" and "US Century Bank."

325 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 7:59:48pm

re: #312 Drudge Potato Al

If your goal is saying absolutely nothing by throwing a thesaurus and dictionary at us, then you hit that one out of the park.

And that is not a compliment.

326 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:00:03pm

re: #13 triumphguy

If you don't believe in creationism as the Christian Bible teaches, you don't believe in the Bible and therefore God (I AM). No you can't pick and choose the parts you want to believe in.

So, still observing the ritual blood sacrifices then?

327 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:00:04pm
328 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:00:06pm

re: #274 jaunte

I don't want a big tent - I want clear, defined principals. Is this so hard? The middle can come to us, we don't need to go to them. This would be easier, mind you, if our resident spokesbeasts didn't pal around with white supremacy advocates and deny the holocaust. Like a broken record, I'll say it again:

1. Fiscally conservative policies AND practices
2. Small government
3. Strong national defense
4. strict constructionist views of the constitution
5. Support of individual freedoms, ensuring this doesn't involve trampling on other's rights in the process (i.e. the organized chaos of a true libertarian is not where we want to go)
6. Support of the religious - equal support of those that aren't.

It isn't rocket surgery.

329 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:00:45pm

re: #308 pingjockey

What in hell am I going to do come 2012 and we run Huckabee or some other nut for prez? So far none of my local reps have gone ID mad, my senators are both west of the Cascades, Puget Sound, I-5 corridor moonbat libs. So there's no choice there. The donks stole the governors race here in WA.

well, I guess your a gonna size who ever up against who they are running against & pick one... nobody said you gotta like it.

330 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:01:01pm

re: #313 persian shoe

Hey folks,

OT
According to a letter from the FDA General Mills' advertising violates the federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. The agency said claims that Cheerios ingredients can lower cholesterol within a certain amount of time, all while providing cancer-fighting and heart-healthy benefits, essentially makes Cheerios "a drug" by their definition. And no drug in this country can be legally marketed without an approved new drug application.

My fucking head is about to explode.

Don't let it ruin your blood chemistry. Go eat a bowl of Cheerios. Sheesh. Is the agency next going to ban bicycle shops from advertising that regular exercise on a bike can cut the risk of heart disease? Will they rule that bicycles are a drug?

Orwell got it right.

331 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:01:09pm

BTW, been busy. To all our new hatchlings....Welcome!

332 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:01:14pm

re: #308 pingjockey

What in hell am I going to do come 2012 and we run Huckabee or some other nut for prez? So far none of my local reps have gone ID mad, my senators are both west of the Cascades, Puget Sound, I-5 corridor moonbat libs. So there's no choice there. The donks stole the governors race here in WA.

You may not believe me..But a lot of folks around here are talking or Gov. Mitch Daniels... A financial genus..Conservitive..Successful here and completely sane about education and the sciences in the classroom...Doesn't buy the ID crap and for around his last term has been balancing the budget and stopping the brain drain from Indiana Universities to lossing to out of state jobs..Elected twice..But Indiana is a small state..But he is a good man in a local market...

333 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:01:21pm

re: #310 taxfreekiller

So, austin blue

This Democrat leader guy, John F. Kerry, does he lie much?

John Kerry is the junior Senator from a small NE state. Democratic leader?

334 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:02:05pm

re: #328 ArmyWife

I agree with your statement of principles; the party is having a problem with the details of how to handle points 5 and 6.

335 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:02:12pm

re: #308 pingjockey

I can't believe I am getting ready to say this - we run our own candidate. Third party.

Egads. I feel dirty saying it.

336 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:02:17pm

re: #329 brookly red
Yah. Just had to vent a little. This kind of nonsense (ID) drives me nuts.

337 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:02:24pm
338 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:02:30pm

re: #327 taxfreekiller

austin blue

you the fringe talker,

f' you

See? No flaming.

339 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:02:39pm

re: #330 lostlakehiker

Don't let it ruin your blood chemistry. Go eat a bowl of Cheerios. Sheesh. Is the agency next going to ban bicycle shops from advertising that regular exercise on a bike can cut the risk of heart disease? Will they rule that bicycles are a drug?

Orwell got it right.

it's not about banning, it's about regulating.

340 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:03:14pm

re: #335 ArmyWife
I know, but there it is.

341 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:03:26pm
342 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:03:44pm

re: #319 American Sabra

BTW, look to Crist to make a run for the Whitehouse one of these days.

Someday, he might even be able to win a GOP primary, but if he could, he'd be worth a look..

343 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:03:51pm

re: #339 brookly red

it's not about banning, it's about regulating.

Needing a prescription for Cheerios. Hoo, boy.

344 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:04:10pm

re: #334 jaunte

Agreed. So what do we do? I'd like to say beat some sense into them, but methinks this would be frowned upon. Letter campaign? A latte party?

345 Drudge Potato Al  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:04:22pm

re: #203 albusteve

I should have worded it a bit better. My first comment on LGF. There's a big chunk of scientific thinkers who love evolution because they construe that it's a way to eliminate a god figure from the equation. Not all of them obviously. Likewise, there's an equal amount of religious folks who cling to intelligent design since it's a way for them to insert a god figure into the equation.

Beautiful topic and fun to discuss.

346 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:04:39pm

re: #315 Sharmuta

Five years ago tonight, actually, I was taking the very first photographs of a slime covered, hungry little girl that didn't very much enjoy her new surroundings. And to think- even before she was born, she was equipped with continuing the process of life. That's what science has taught me- life is incredible Beautiful...

Happy Birthday, Boop. Love, Auntie Shar

Happy Birthday Auntie...

347 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:05:00pm

re: #343 FurryOldGuyJeans

Needing a prescription for Cheerios. Hoo, boy.

that and a ration card & your good to go!

348 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:05:08pm

re: #339 brookly red

it's not about banning, it's about regulating.

It's not about regulating, it's about CONTROL.

349 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #324 Gus 802

Interesting. I haven't been paying much attention to that.

Search for "Max Alvarez" and "Marco Rubio."

Also search for "Marco Rubio" and "US Century Bank."

A search on "Discovery Institute" "Rubio" told me all I needed to know about the guy.

350 Drudge Potato Al  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:05:29pm

re: #325 FurryOldGuyJeans

I know. I need better editing skills. You are helping me though and that's much appreciated.

351 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:05:48pm

re: #341 taxfreekiller

Did John F. Kerry run for President on the Democrat ticket.

That doesn't make the leader. That makes him the guy who won the democratic primary more than four years ago, and blew most of his political wad in the process.

352 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:05:58pm

re: #348 OldLineTexan

It's not about regulating, it's about CONTROL.

Regulating is just the progressive form of autocratic control. Still ends up the same way.

353 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:06:37pm
354 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:07:04pm

re: #350 Drudge Potato Al

I know. I need better editing skills. You are helping me though and that's much appreciated.

Scale back and use simple words. Being fancy is for when you get known around here.

355 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:07:20pm

re: #326 Slumbering Behemoth

So, still observing the ritual blood sacrifices then?

Hmmm, most Christian churches can explain that to you.

356 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:07:24pm

re: #344 ArmyWife

Agreed. So what do we do? I'd like to say beat some sense into them, but methinks this would be frowned upon. Letter campaign? A latte party?

All of the above. Keep talking about conservative principles, (and keep reminding other conservatives that forcing other people to worship or live as you would prefer is not a desirable conservative principle).

357 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:07:42pm

Fark likes this thread.

358 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:07:48pm

re: #341 taxfreekiller

Did John F. Kerry run for President on the Democrat ticket.

Did you know that HE WAS IN VIET NAM?!

359 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:07:54pm

re: #354 FurryOldGuyJeans

I'm still waiting for the context checker. Principal v. principle. Sheesh.

360 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:08:23pm

re: #348 OldLineTexan

It's not about regulating, it's about CONTROL.

/I see your CONTROL & raise you one oppression.

361 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:08:26pm

re: #358 MandyManners

I believe he's mentioned that once or twice.

362 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:09:06pm
363 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:09:17pm

re: #358 MandyManners

Did you know that HE WAS IN VIET NAM?!

but not for Christmas...

364 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:09:19pm

re: #349 Thanos

A search on "Discovery Institute" "Rubio" told me all I needed to know about the guy.

Right. Like this:

Evolution Academic Freedom Act + Marco Rubio

Stealth creationism: "Evolution Academic Freedom Act"

365 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:09:20pm

re: #359 ArmyWife

I'm still waiting for the context checker. Principal v. principle. Sheesh.

Loose vs. lose. Yeah, I hear ya, AW. :)

366 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:09:33pm

re: #358 MandyManners

Did you know that HE WAS IN VIET NAM Paris?!


Crazy huh?
/

367 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:09:44pm

re: #358 MandyManners
He's also a goddamned traitorous son of a bitch who should be keel hauled.

368 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:09:51pm

re: #362 taxfreekiller

Obama's at the helm.

369 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:11pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Fark likes this thread.

That's the ugly little alien with big ears on Star Trek: Something, isn't it? Did they re-do his backstory too?

/

370 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:16pm

re: #368 Killgore Trout

...and doing a better job than Ron Paul.

371 John Neverbend  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:19pm

re: #265 Dar ul Harbarian

Some light reading before bed:

Gödel's ontological proof

Sorry, it gave me a headache. I have enough trouble getting my mind round Anselm's argument. At least I can write it down in English. The odd thing about Anselm's "proof" is that most philosophers disagree with it, but they don't seem to agree about why it's wrong.

372 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:34pm

re: #365 FurryOldGuyJeans

Loose vs. lose. Yeah, I hear ya, AW. :)

Shoot vs. shot.

/Doh!

373 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:34pm

re: #368 Killgore Trout

Obama's at the helm.

Ignore that ice berg, dead ahead.

374 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:41pm

re: #358 MandyManners

Did you know that HE WAS IN VIET NAM?!

Don't forget CAMBODIA!

375 Drudge Potato Al  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:55pm

re: #246 Sharmuta

Absolutely nothing except for the fact that the issue is very difficult to discuss on a purely rational basis since both sides get very emotional.

376 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:10:58pm

re: #353 taxfreekiller

Is Nancy Pelosi a leader of the Democrat Party?

No. She is the House Majority Leader. She is only there because of the 'Pubs.

377 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:00pm

re: #368 Killgore Trout
That's debatable!

378 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:04pm

re: #370 Killgore Trout

...and doing a better job than Ron Paul.

The original tea party boats were parked.

379 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:24pm

re: #375 Drudge Potato Al

Have you heard of theistic evolution?

380 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:31pm
381 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:41pm

re: #362 taxfreekiller

Any of these leaders of the Democrat Party?

Bill Clinton
Hill Clinton
Al Gore
Ted Kennedy
Harry Reid
B. Obama
Nancy Pelosi
John F. Kerry
Chuck Schummer
Barney Frank
Chris Dodd
?

At least they have some. Who are the Republican leaders? Who do YOU like?

382 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:45pm

re: #377 pingjockey

Not even close.

383 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:45pm

re: #370 Killgore Trout

...and doing a better job than Ron Paul.

Ron Paul DOES suck at leading the Democrat party, true.

384 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:11:49pm

re: #374 OldLineTexan

Don't forget CAMBODIA!

I'll bet those memories are just seared into his memory

385 ArmyWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:12:15pm

Good night, good people. Tomorrow is another day.

386 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:12:28pm

re: #380 taxfreekiller

Ya, but Ron Paul scares you and Obama does not.

Think about that.

Thought about it. I'm quite happy with my decision.

387 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:12:36pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

The original tea party boats were parked.

Parked? They were forceably beached or broached, typhoon a'blowing.

388 HelloDare  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:13:06pm

re: #66 jaunte

I haven't heard a conservative talk radio personality yet who has gone beyond the "teach the controversy, and let the kids decide" level of thinking about this issue.

How about Mark Levin? He doesn't talk about teaching the controversy.
He screams.

389 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:13:14pm

re: #387 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sorry- was just trying to be funny.

390 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:13:59pm

re: #373 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ignore that ice berg arugula, dead ahead.

391 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:14:00pm
392 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:14:22pm

re: #317 lostlakehiker


Unfortunately, stupid arguments are often appealing arguments. Correct logic requires such rigorous attention to detail. It's much harder to make a splash---you have to trump Newton or something to do that, and how many Einsteins do we get? But a stupid argument immediately stirs the pot. People notice. If it's stupid, mendacious, and superficially appealing, camp followers materialize. They can win their 15 minutes of vicarious fame by showing off their superior ignorance, as though it were knowledge. This is much easier than actually learning some biology.

The struggle with inanity is endless and unwinnable. It's a sisyphean task. But it's losable. Shirk thy duty and let that rock get all the way down the hill, and it's tough to get it out of the muck and back on the slope.

Brutal take-down. I need to up-ding this.

About the "camp followers" - After the election season, I formulated a saying a for myself that "Humanity is a Theater of the Absurd." I don't know if "Humanity" is the correct word for what I mean. I mean "what people do" or "what's going on", like the public culture. It seems like everybody wants to get attention and carve out their own niche that they can pee on other people from, no matter how much of an idiot they make of themselves in the process.

I watch idiots on TV, I read idiots on the internet, I hear idiots on the radio, and I just think Remember - "Theater of the Absurd". Maybe that's what Shakespeare meant by "all the world's a stage".

393 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:14:30pm

re: #389 Sharmuta

Sorry- was just trying to be funny.

I'm the blonde one for missing the irony you used, ooops.

394 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:14:42pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout
You think obambi is calling all the shots? That's why I said debatable. IMO, he's getting a lot of input from folks who aren't on the official advisor list. Ya know what that sounds dumb. He does have the final say when it is all said and done.

395 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:15:01pm

re: #381 American Sabra

At least they have some. Who are the Republican leaders? Who do YOU like?

we don't like anybody & THAT is a problem.

396 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:15:24pm

re: #355 OldLineTexan

I know what you're getting at. I should have included a sarc tag in my other post. My bad.

Still, there are many who say you can't pick and choose, while they continue to pick and choose themselves.

397 bobbuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:16:04pm

re: #188 MandyManners

If a private school teaches 2+2=5, it will not get accreditation.

I meant state schools and I didn't mean the "2+2=5" literally. Schools do teach things that are not correct. I remember being taught that Christopher Columbus was the only person who thought the world was round.

398 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:16:06pm

re: #396 Slumbering Behemoth

I know what you're getting at. I should have included a sarc tag in my other post. My bad.

Still, there are many who say you can't pick and choose, while they continue to pick and choose themselves.

Yes, that has been tradition for nearly 2000 years. ;)

399 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:16:23pm

I'm glad I still drink.

400 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:17:31pm

re: #385 ArmyWife

Good night, good people. Tomorrow is another day.

Sleep tight..It's always fun on the morning thread when Aussiegirl signs off a day ahead of us..It's always comforting to know somebody is living the next day in from of us and it's all clear for the next 24 hours..That God for the Aussies!
/Cheers Lad

401 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:17:38pm

re: #399 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
That is a plus!

402 fon_win  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:17:39pm

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

Whaaaa! I WANT MY PARTY BACK!


I do want my party back.... well, not sure when my party was what i believe in now.

Give me a party that will stay out of my personal life, defend my liberties, Provide for our common defense, govern trade and control the inflow of people across our borders. A Party that looks to the constitution, not to polls and for heavens sake not the church prior to making policy.

/speell chexer says it's all good.

403 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:18:32pm

In other news, Cordon Sanitaire forming against PVV, Geert Wilder's Party.

404 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:18:42pm

re: #402 fon_win

Very good.

405 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:18:56pm

re: #395 brookly red

That was my point. I've always been partial to Gingrich myself, but I bet TFK would call him a RINO.

I'd really like to know who he likes though. I know who he doesn't like!

406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:19:13pm

re: #400 HoosierHoops

CELTICS!

407 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:19:57pm

Just realized I've been saying James Powers instead of Jason Powers.

/Oops.

408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:19:59pm

re: #405 American Sabra

He is very partial to Mrs. TFK! I can tell you that!

409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:20:19pm

re: #407 Gus 802

Well, you didn't say Austin.

410 CurryCowboy  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:20:24pm

This support for ID is why my distaste for voting GOP on the national ticket (over the equally frightening Dems) continues to grow. I just finished reading Michael Shermer's "Why people believe in weird things"... and if it's true that we are hardwired to recognize or otherwise create patterns in all events, then we are doomed to cycles of irrationality. ID/Holocaust denial are just modern examples of an ancient curse.

BTW, long time visitor, lurker in the comments. Managed to find a registration window by sheer luck. Glad to be here :-)

411 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:20:48pm

re: #406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LUAP NOR!

412 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:21:01pm

re: #408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

God bless that woman! (I'm sorry... he makes it too easy.)

413 Ojoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:21:29pm

The blue evening on the San Gabriel Mountains. Towercam, Pacific time zone, maintained by Science guys — UCLA astronomers.

And now, the Modern Whig position on science:

EDUCATION/SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT — Increased public and private emphasis on fields such as space, oceanic, medical and nanotechnology. Also, providing common-sense solutions to enhance our educational system from pre-school to university-level studies.

www dot ModernWhig dot org

414 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:21:35pm

re: #406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

CELTICS!

Freaking Lakers! I can't trash talk them if they are winning 40-24..GEEERRR!
Hi Veggie!

415 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:21:47pm

re: #409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, you didn't say Austin.

He might still have a mini-me.

//

416 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:21:52pm

re: #410 CurryCowboy

Welcome!
/not a cowboy, but booted.

417 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:21:58pm

re: #362 taxfreekiller

Any of these leaders of the Democrat Party?

Bill Clinton
Hill Clinton
Al Gore
Ted Kennedy
Harry Reid
B. Obama
Nancy Pelosi
John F. Kerry
Chuck Schummer
Barney Frank
Chris Dodd
?

No.
Many of them are highly placed members of it, but Howard Dean- you know, the one who lost the primary to Kerry, has been Chairman for a couple of years now

418 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:22:12pm

re: #381 American Sabra

At least they have some. Who are the Republican leaders? Who do YOU like?

I wouldn't call those people "leaders".
Criminals, perhaps. The dems certainly have the best criminals.
The Republicans are not nearly as bad, but you are right, they have no real leaders either.

419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:22:39pm

I worked out this morning. I mean, really worked out.

Being a fat bastard is much easier than exercising.

I am sore cubed (wish I knew how to make that little 3).

420 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:23:04pm

re: #394 pingjockey

You think obambi is calling all the shots? That's why I said debatable. IMO, he's getting a lot of input from folks who aren't on the official advisor list. Ya know what that sounds dumb. He does have the final say when it is all said and done.

I think the way he works with Gates is a a example. He knows little about defense, so he kept Gates. BHO does not like the way Afghanistan is going and relies on Gates to get the joint chiefs together and come up with a plan. Gates wants to can a general, BHO signs off on it. If BHO had decided on his own to micro manage the war, we'd be in deep trouble, it's not his thing.
On the flip side, one of his guys thinks a fly by over NYC would be cool, and he tosses him under the bus. That, he can deal with, without advisors.

421 AFVetWife  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:23:12pm

re: #328 ArmyWife
I agree with you! As conservatives, we need to push back hard about our basic principles. THEY are about one man, "The Messiah," WE should be about one set of ideals! We have several good people right now speaking out and saying the right things - let's all get together and remind real conservative what the message is. Then we have to work for appropriate candidates at the local an state level, keep the pressure on those currently in office, and wait/hope for someone to rise to the top (like cream), in time for 2012. Our principles must/should define us.
Time to go, all; it's almost 11:30 EDT, and I get up about 5:30 AM. Warm thoughts to all!

422 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:23:20pm

More on the Geert cordon here.

423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:23:28pm

re: #414 HoosierHoops

Oh poop! Games on?

*Turns on TV, sits up...*

424 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:23:44pm

re: #418 JohnAdams

Criminals? Really? LOL Then why aren't they in jail?

425 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:24:02pm

Let's stop jumping on TFK. He is what he is.

426 dwells38  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:24:04pm

re: #216 doppelganglander

"celebrity science"

Nice oxymoron!

427 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:24:05pm

MSM headline of the day...........
Troops claim 'supernatural powers' after pygmy sodomy

There's something you don't see every day.

428 Ojoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:24:53pm

re: #419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

< sup >

then the three

then

< /sup >

Makes a little3

(leave out the spaces between the pointy brackets and the stuff inside them.)

429 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:25:05pm

re: #420 avanti
I don't trust Gates. I guarentee you this idea of more spec ops forces won't fly. There are not enough of those guys to do the job.

430 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:25:18pm

re: #425 austin_blue

Who's jumping on TFK? I love TFK!

431 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:25:18pm

re: #419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I worked out this morning. I mean, really worked out.

Being a fat bastard is much easier than exercising.

I am sore cubed (wish I knew how to make that little 3).

Hey Bro..I read that..There is no reson at all to be running laps..Have fun on the court..Play Horse..Shoot..play short games..
Trust me..In 60 days we can talk about running..Easy does it and have fun!

432 Ojoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:25:41pm

re: #419 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Pain is weakness leaving the body"

—USMC

433 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:25:46pm

re: #427 Killgore Trout

MSM headline of the day...........
Troops claim 'supernatural powers' after pygmy sodomy

There's something you don't see every day.

Oh boy. Weird. Hope they at least used condoms.

434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:26:15pm

re: #432 Ojoe

"Pain is weakness leaving the body"

—USMC

"Pain is what is hurting me right now."
-FBV

435 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:26:31pm

re: #421 AFVetWife

See now, this is the problem. Most people would prefer to keep church and state separate, you know, like the founding fathers wanted it. It's not about killing religion which is where this whole creation debate has landed, for what reason, I have no clue. It has nothing to do with any of that. It's about keeping religion out of public school. Church is for religion, not school.

436 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:26:51pm

re: #422 Thanos

More on the Geert cordon here.

Thanks.

437 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:26:52pm

re: #433 Gus 802

Oh boy. Weird. Hope they at least used condoms.

If not, they just have to rape a virgin and be cured.

438 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:27:00pm

re: #427 Killgore Trout

MSM headline of the day...........
Troops claim 'supernatural powers' after pygmy sodomy

There's something you don't see every day.

"Some soldiers from the 85th Brigade sodomised three male pygmies to gain supernatural powers and protection in Kisa village in Walikale territory,'' the Human Rights League of the Great Lakes said.

"The village chief was stripped and (sodomised) in the presence of his wife, his children and daughter in-law.

"The children in turn were stripped and raped in front of their father."

...

Or, maybe, you know... They just kinda like rape?

Africa sucks.

439 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:27:04pm

re: #434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Pain is what is hurting me right now."
-FBV

"Pain don't hurt"

-Patrick Swayze, Road House

440 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:27:19pm

re: #424 American Sabra

Criminals? Really? LOL Then why aren't they in jail?

That's a truly defining question of our time, because the people in power in Congress are truly robbing us all without even asking. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.

441 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:27:43pm

re: #437 avanti

If not, they just have to rape a virgin and be cured.

Strange but true -- they probably believe that.

442 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:28:04pm

re: #427 Killgore Trout

MSM headline of the day...........
Troops claim 'supernatural powers' after pygmy sodomy

There's something you don't see every day.

Wow. Being a pygmy sucks worse than being a marshmallow cereal leprechaun ... at least all the damned kids want are your Lucky Charms.

443 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:28:14pm

re: #397 bobbuck

I meant state schools and I didn't mean the "2+2=5" literally. Schools do teach things that are not correct. I remember being taught that Christopher Columbus was the only person who thought the world was round.

That is one of the discussion questions in my online astronomy course. I always like to ask whether Columbus actually proved the world is round, and, if not, who did.
It can take a while sometimes.

444 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:28:18pm

re: #428 Ojoe

Those small threes... they frighten me.
-Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

445 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:28:30pm

re: #440 JohnAdams

I think this is really big problem that went on for about a decade and has lots of dirty hands from all around the table.

446 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:28:51pm

re: #438 Pawn of the Oppressor

Imagine how much your life would suck if people though they'd get magical powers from raping you. Yikes!

447 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:29:03pm

re: #439 Bloodnok

Don't laugh. But I have a nephew who was named after Patrick's character in Roadhouse.

448 bobbuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:29:07pm

re: #192 Bloodnok

So the answer is to ignore it? Uh, no.

Actually, yes. We ignore it. We stop wasting time arguing about what happened thousands of years ago. If we give 20 people the full scoop on evolution that's about 18 more than we need. If we start terraforming planets maybe we should up it to 35. In the mean time it would sure be great if a high school graduate could read a freaking loan or mortgage contract much less calculate payments and interest so he could make an intelligent consumer decision instead of screwing up and making us bail him out. All the Amish believe in the literal 7 day creation. Even though they're wrong they could buy anyone on this board with the change in their pocket. Move on. Prioritize.

449 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:29:11pm

re: #429 pingjockey

I don't trust Gates. I guarentee you this idea of more spec ops forces won't fly. There are not enough of those guys to do the job.

I hope your wrong, I liked Gates even under Bush. I think we can agree the old way was not working, and I have a lot of faith in special opts in a counter insurgency role.

450 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:29:24pm

re: #428 Ojoe

< sup >

then the three

then

< /sup >

Makes a little3

(leave out the spaces between the pointy brackets and the stuff inside them.)

wassup

451 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:29:36pm

re: #446 Killgore Trout

Change people to women? I'm okay with it.

452 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:29:40pm

re: #437 avanti

WTF? And BTW- what's this shit about not accepting evolution for non-religious reasons? How does that work?

453 Ojoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:30:03pm

re: #440 JohnAdams

Not only what you said, but they are taxing future generations yet unborn.

IMHO it is "taxation without representation", a cause for rebellion once before, perhaps a repeat of some sort is in order.

454 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:30:35pm

Back in time for the ON thread....

455 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:30:53pm

re: #440 JohnAdams

That's a truly defining question of our time, because the people in power in Congress are truly robbing us all without even asking. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.

I like you John Adams. And I like the family brew too.

456 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:31:01pm

re: #437 avanti

If not, they just have to rape a virgin and be cured.

Yikes. I need some sleep. I was thinking pigs not pygmies as in Pygmy People.

457 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:31:09pm

re: #439 Bloodnok

"Pain don't hurt"

-Patrick Swayze, Road House

No...
Pain Fucking hurts...67 stitches on a wrist..a blown out knee..2 broken bones. a broken left index ...Pain damn well Hurts..So does love..But pain really really hurts.

458 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:31:15pm

re: #420 avanti

I think the way he works with Gates is a a example. He knows little about defense, so he kept Gates. BHO does not like the way Afghanistan is going and relies on Gates to get the joint chiefs together and come up with a plan. Gates wants to can a general, BHO signs off on it. If BHO had decided on his own to micro manage the war, we'd be in deep trouble, it's not his thing.
On the flip side, one of his guys thinks a fly by over NYC would be cool, and he tosses him under the bus. That, he can deal with, without advisors.

Someone posted a link to an article on how Obama is going against Gates to stop research on maintaining nuclear weapons.
He's not only asking others to unclench their fists, he's unclenching ours, and throwing away our shield.
And he's going against advice to do so.

459 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:31:41pm

re: #449 avanti
THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH! What part of that don't you get? There maybe and I'm using a high number, 10,000 spec ops troops Total in all the armed forces.

460 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:32:21pm
461 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:32:23pm

re: #448 bobbuck

Actually, yes. We ignore it. We stop wasting time arguing about what happened thousands of years ago. If we give 20 people the full scoop on evolution that's about 18 more than we need. If we start terraforming planets maybe we should up it to 35. In the mean time it would sure be great if a high school graduate could read a freaking loan or mortgage contract much less calculate payments and interest so he could make an intelligent consumer decision instead of screwing up and making us bail him out. All the Amish believe in the literal 7 day creation. Even though they're wrong they could buy anyone on this board with the change in their pocket. Move on. Prioritize.

You might want to tighten the string on your mask.

462 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:33:49pm

re: #458 Kosh's Shadow

Someone posted a link to an article on how Obama is going against Gates to stop research on maintaining nuclear weapons.
He's not only asking others to unclench their fists, he's unclenching ours, and throwing away our shield.
And he's going against advice to do so.

But he's Teh (sic) One, and that is all that matters.

463 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:34:30pm

I want to know why avanti doesn't accept evolution.

464 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:34:34pm

re: #448 bobbuck
So you're for teaching one version of creation as science? What about the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc....This flies directly in the face of the 1st Amend.

465 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:35:06pm

re: #448 bobbuck

Actually, yes. We ignore it. We stop wasting time arguing about what happened thousands of years ago. If we give 20 people the full scoop on evolution that's about 18 more than we need. If we start terraforming planets maybe we should up it to 35. In the mean time it would sure be great if a high school graduate could read a freaking loan or mortgage contract much less calculate payments and interest so he could make an intelligent consumer decision instead of screwing up and making us bail him out. All the Amish believe in the literal 7 day creation. Even though they're wrong they could buy anyone on this board with the change in their pocket. Move on. Prioritize.

I'd love to ignore this topic but, it won't go away. It goes beyond evolution, though. There are a few out there--Dominionists--who want to replace our government with a theocracy.

466 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:35:18pm

re: #462 FurryOldGuyJeans

But he's Teh (sic) One, and that is all that matters.

And One is nothing.
(An old Firesign Theatre line)

467 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:35:23pm

re: #445 American Sabra

I think this is really big problem that went on for about a decade and has lots of dirty hands from all around the table.

I don't excuse the GOP any more than the democrats, though they at least give lip service to fiscal responsibility, and Reagan actually lived it. I don't care what party has control of the Federal gobmint, we should check them and distrust them and make them our bitches at all times--they all naturally gravitate to where they are out of their own nature as bloodsuckers. Fuck them. Power should be local and federalized. States should be free,

468 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:35:27pm

re: #461 Bloodnok

You might want to tighten the string on your mask.

Oh..Bloodnok..Ther was something really funny a lizard said here the other day..I can't find the link..
But he said on the Hubble launch thread that finally we could upgrade the telescope in Technology to finally see 6000 years ago to see the beginning of the Universe..I laughed my ass off

469 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:35:32pm
470 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:35:53pm

re: #448 bobbuck

We stop wasting time arguing about what happened thousands of years ago.

Then what happened millions of years ago is completely irrelevant, no?

471 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:36:08pm
472 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:36:19pm

re: #461 Bloodnok

You might want to tighten the string on your mask.

I missed that one.

473 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:36:32pm

re: #455 brookly red

I like you John Adams. And I like the family brew too.

Cheers. Try Bell's Oberon for summer!

474 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:36:36pm

re: #468 HoosierHoops
What? Find that damned link!

475 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:36:46pm

re: #452 Sharmuta

WTF? And BTW- what's this shit about not accepting evolution for non-religious reasons? How does that work?

In parts of Africa, virgins are raped because of a myth that it cures rape. I don't understand your other question.

"Definition: The Virgin Cure is the mistaken belief that if a man has intercourse with a virgin female, he can be cured of AIDS, syphilis, gonorrhea, or other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).

According to author Hanne Blank, the idea may have evolved from Christian legends of virgin martyrs whose purity served as a form of protection in battling demons. Researcher Mike Earl-Taylor also indicates the myth gained prominence 19th century Victorian England. Today, it is believed that the Virgin Cure may explain the staggering rise in child/infant rapes in South Africa, which is facing an HIV/AIDS epidemic.

Sources:
Earl-Taylor, Mike."HIV/AIDS, the stats, the virgin cure and infant rape." Science in Africa, April 2002.
Blank, Hanne. Virgin: The Untouched History. Bloomsbury USA, 2007."

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:37:15pm

re: #431 HoosierHoops

Hey Bro..I read that..There is no reson at all to be running laps..Have fun on the court..Play Horse..Shoot..play short games..
Trust me..In 60 days we can talk about running..Easy does it and have fun!

I wasn't always this out of shape. I also, at every single moment, am the oldest I have ever been. Used to be a decent street baller (never played on a team with a coach) but played "projects" ball. I will be playing at a new gym within a few weeks with people I know, and have to learn how to dribble and shoot again.

I kinda have to go hard, and quick. I may be a fat bastard, but I still like to win.

477 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:37:31pm

re: #469 taxfreekiller
Maybe we'll get lucky and the boat will run him over!

478 Randall Gross  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:37:39pm

re: #463 Sharmuta

Reverse moby?

479 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:38:45pm
480 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:38:50pm

re: #463 Sharmuta

I want to know why avanti doesn't accept evolution.

Excuse the fuck me ?

481 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:39:16pm

re: #475 avanti

You said: BTW, I don't believe in evolution

I want to know why.

482 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:39:31pm
483 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:39:36pm

re: #478 Thanos

Reverse moby?

/?the forbidden dance?

484 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:39:50pm

Howwwdyyyyyy!

485 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:40:10pm

re: #480 avanti

That syntax is totally fucked up, but I loved the structure.

486 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:40:42pm

re: #480 avanti

Getting caught trying to bullshit us again and now have no way out?

487 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:40:45pm

re: #482 taxfreekiller
Idiots who want that are certifiable.

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:41:08pm

Fifty sucks, btw.

489 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:41:11pm

re: #481 Sharmuta

You said: BTW, I don't believe in evolution

I want to know why.

Hi sunshine. I'm waiting for your explanation too!

490 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:41:42pm

re: #410 CurryCowboy

Welcome!

491 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:41:54pm

re: #489 Walter L. Newton

Hi sunshine. I'm waiting for your explanation too!

(I'm referring to Advanti)

492 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:42:02pm

I love that favorites feature. Thanks, Charles.

493 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:42:08pm
494 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:42:20pm

re: #486 FurryOldGuyJeans

Getting caught trying to bullshit us again and now have no way out?

Waiting (tapping foot)...

495 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:42:21pm

re: #467 JohnAdams

I don't excuse the GOP any more than the democrats, though they at least give lip service to fiscal responsibility, and Reagan actually lived it. I don't care what party has control of the Federal gobmint, we should check them and distrust them and make them our bitches at all times--they all naturally gravitate to where they are out of their own nature as bloodsuckers. Fuck them. Power should be local and federalized. States should be free,

Well I think you described what it means to be a politician these days. Probably why I'm an Independent. However, I'm getting to my fed up point.

So what do you make of the Clinton surplus? What was it? $560 billion? Or Bush inflating government spending by about 40%? Much of that was Homeland Security, of course, but certainly not all of it.

496 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:42:25pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
It isn't as bad as I thought!

497 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:43:21pm

re: #481 Sharmuta

You said: BTW, I don't believe in evolution

I want to know why.

Being mean to him, you are. Using his own words against him is not nice.

But it sure is fun. ;)

498 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:43:26pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fifty sucks, btw.

Is it you BD today?

499 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:43:28pm

re: #479 Iron Fist

If you really just want the ³ then try & sup 3; with all the spaces removed. ³

was "wassup?" joke

500 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:43:38pm
501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:44:07pm

re: #498 Walter L. Newton

Nope. But, it sucks as I near it.

502 VioletTiger  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:44:21pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fifty sucks, btw.


Fifty what, FBV?

503 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:44:53pm

re: #493 taxfreekiller

You go Sharmuta,,,,,!

Fist bump, yo.

504 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:45:00pm

re: #502 VioletTiger

Fifty what, FBV?

fity cent?

505 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:45:07pm

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wasn't always this out of shape. I also, at every single moment, am the oldest I have ever been. Used to be a decent street baller (never played on a team with a coach) but played "projects" ball. I will be playing at a new gym within a few weeks with people I know, and have to learn how to dribble and shoot again.

I kinda have to go hard, and quick. I may be a fat bastard, but I still like to win.


There you go..
My little secret on how to be a popular guy on a Ball team..
It's a team sport..Pass the ball to the first open guy you see..pretty soon you'll see the ball in your hands every 45 secs..
Or..If that doesn't work..Somebody comes in the lane..Kick his ass a few times..He'll think about it next time..you stud..
Last but not least..That all fails? For gawd's sakes play some weakside defence..It's OK to back your Bro up underneath..You might even get a rebound twice a night..LOL
Kind regards Veggie

506 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:45:13pm

re: #501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nope. But, it sucks as I near it.

Every day that you exist with your feet firmly planted on the ground is a good day.

507 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:45:25pm

I gather I've missed a lot by eating dinner.

Gracious!

508 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:45:46pm

re: #465 MandyManners

I'd love to ignore this topic but, it won't go away. It goes beyond evolution, though. There are a few out there--Dominionists--who want to replace our government with a theocracy.

Well, if that happens, I could always make aliyah to Israel. But by that time Israel will probably be a halachic state under the control of the rabbis.

509 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:46:02pm

re: #505 HoosierHoops

There you go..
My little secret on how to be a popular guy on a Ball team..
It's a team sport..Pass the ball to the first open guy you see..pretty soon you'll see the ball in your hands every 45 secs..
Or..If that doesn't work..Somebody comes in the lane..Kick his ass a few times..He'll think about it next time..you stud..
Last but not least..That all fails? For gawd's sakes play some weakside defence..It's OK to back your Bro up underneath..You might even get a rebound twice a night..LOL
Kind regards Veggie

Otherwise punch him in the jaw. Oh, I'm sorry, you were talking about a sport.

510 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:46:10pm
511 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:46:19pm

re: #448 bobbuck

Actually, yes. We ignore it. We stop wasting time arguing about what happened thousands of years ago. If we give 20 people the full scoop on evolution that's about 18 more than we need. If we start terraforming planets maybe we should up it to 35. In the mean time it would sure be great if a high school graduate could read a freaking loan or mortgage contract much less calculate payments and interest so he could make an intelligent consumer decision instead of screwing up and making us bail him out. All the Amish believe in the literal 7 day creation. Even though they're wrong they could buy anyone on this board with the change in their pocket. Move on. Prioritize.

That post is "anti-science" in a nutshell. Do you believe that scientific discoveries based on evolution science such as genetics and biology to name just a few have benefitted mankind in any way? Should scientists have just ignored it?

And by the way, WTF does the Amish bit mean?

512 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:46:50pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But, fifty is the new thirty!
Congratulations on the work out!

513 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:46:54pm

re: #506 Walter L. Newton

Every day that you exist with your feet firmly planted on the ground is a good day.

I usually phrase that as, "Every day on the daylight side of the dirt counts as a good one."

I like the old Greek oath, "So long as I walk the earth and see daylight."

514 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:46:56pm
515 fried spam  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:46:57pm

re: #288 AFVetWife

"God paints on a canvas bigger than we can see or understand"

516 ShanghaiEd  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:47:38pm

re: #434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Pain is what is hurting me right now."
-FBV

"I can stand anything except pain." -- Linus, in Peanuts

517 VioletTiger  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:47:46pm

re: #410 CurryCowboy

This support for ID is why my distaste for voting GOP on the national ticket (over the equally frightening Dems) continues to grow. I just finished reading Michael Shermer's "Why people believe in weird things"... and if it's true that we are hardwired to recognize or otherwise create patterns in all events, then we are doomed to cycles of irrationality. ID/Holocaust denial are just modern examples of an ancient curse.

BTW, long time visitor, lurker in the comments. Managed to find a registration window by sheer luck. Glad to be here :-)

Welcome CurryCowboy. We talk a lot about people who believe in weird things. They're everywhere.

518 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:48:26pm

re: #510 Iron Fist

40s sneaking up on me. When I was 20, I'd have snuck up on forty, ambushed it, and left it lying in the ditch missing an ear for my necklace. This 40 bastard looks like he aims to take my pelt...

Piker!

519 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:48:30pm

re: #510 Iron Fist

40s sneaking up on me. When I was 20, I'd have snuck up on forty, ambushed it, and left it lying in the ditch missing an ear for my necklace. This 40 bastard looks like he aims to take my pelt...

Having past that forty mark, just barely mind you, it is only a figment of your fears. My attitutde is don't stop playing. You don't stop playing when you grow old, you grow old when you stop playing. I may approaching my middle years, but I have a youthful mind. Child like but not childish.

520 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:48:41pm

re: #481 Sharmuta

Must have been Bizzarro Avanti who said that.

521 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:49:03pm

re: #511 Bloodnok

That post is "anti-science" in a nutshell. Do you believe that scientific discoveries based on evolution science such as genetics and biology to name just a few have benefitted mankind in any way? Should scientists have just ignored it?

And by the way, WTF does the Amish bit mean?

The Amish don't believe in spending money they don't have, and they believe in saving the money they do have.

However I used to know a guy who was a social worker in Lancaster County, PA, who told me there were many Amish on the welfare rolls if a harvest failed or they couldn't afford to buy a farm. They are dependent on The System like everybody else.

522 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:49:06pm
523 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:49:19pm
524 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:49:52pm

re: #510 Iron Fist

40s sneaking up on me. When I was 20, I'd have snuck up on forty, ambushed it, and left it lying in the ditch missing an ear for my necklace. This 40 bastard looks like he aims to take my pelt...

And I bet you're fun on a date! Remind me to wear a hat!

525 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:50:03pm

re: #514 taxfreekiller

must be contacting central command to get Rham's ok for an answer to you Sharmuta

Avanti... earth to Avanti... come back... Yesterday, he was whining about how car brokers rip off little old ladies and charities when they deal with donated cars (Avanti missed out on a Studerbaker he wanted that was donated to Goodwill) and with in 30 posts he was then whining that he would LOVE to be able to afford to be a car broker.

Never got an answer on that flip-flop either.

526 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:50:13pm

WTF does it mean that 'Amish can buy me with change in their pocket?'

Like, uh... weird.

527 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:50:20pm

re: #519 BlueCanuck
Damn straight! Granted I have 9 yr old boy to keep me on my toes!

528 brookly red  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:50:43pm

re: #510 Iron Fist

40s sneaking up on me. When I was 20, I'd have snuck up on forty, ambushed it, and left it lying in the ditch missing an ear for my necklace. This 40 bastard looks like he aims to take my pelt...

/we were put here to take advantage of young people...

good night y'all

529 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:50:43pm

re: #481 Sharmuta

You said: BTW, I don't believe in evolution

I want to know why.

Got it. I don't think belief in evolution is a conservative or liberal political positions. I'll even accept a politician that believes in ID as lot as that's a personal belief and not pushed in the public domain. I mistyped "evolution" for creationism, thus the confusion. Senior moment.

530 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:51:01pm

re: #523 Iron Fist

You've never read Shogun, have you? It's a good book, if a bit fanciful. They have a good play on that parable at the end of the book.

Nope. I don't really like novels that deal with a lot of "fighting."

531 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:51:05pm
532 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:51:45pm

Is it me or is Roxana Saberi smokey hot?

533 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:52:10pm

re: #491 Walter L. Newton

(I'm referring to Advanti)

Walter, you know I'm not a ID'er, it was a typo. I'm way left socially to most of you.

534 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:52:26pm

re: #532 BigPapa

Is that Mel's new squeeze?

535 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:52:35pm

re: #532 BigPapa
WHO?

536 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:52:41pm

re: #530 Walter L. Newton

Nope. I don't really like novels that deal with a lot of "fighting."

Shogun has next to no (count it, no) fighting. It's about culture, thinking, and manuver.

537 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:52:44pm

re: #495 American Sabra

Well I think you described what it means to be a politician these days. Probably why I'm an Independent. However, I'm getting to my fed up point.

So what do you make of the Clinton surplus? What was it? $560 billion? Or Bush inflating government spending by about 40%? Much of that was Homeland Security, of course, but certainly not all of it.

I'd kill for Clinton and his surplus. I'll give him full marks and take him back now in a heartbeat!

538 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:53:16pm

re: #529 avanti

37 more homes powered by the patented avanti spin machine.

You got caught flatfooted and all you do is try to lie your way out. No wonder you have that O man crush.

539 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:53:41pm

re: #533 avanti

Walter, you know I'm not a ID'er, it was a typo. I'm way left socially to most of you.

You just said it's not a left-right (conservative-liberal) issue.

540 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:53:47pm

re: #533 avanti

Walter, you know I'm not a ID'er, it was a typo. I'm way left socially to most of you.

Avanti. Do you know what I do for a living? You're not more socially left than I am, for sure.

Nay, nay... I'm more socially left than you.... nay, nay.

541 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:53:48pm

Roxana Saberi: journalist released from Iran.

Search for her on the intar tubes.

542 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:53:48pm

re: #537 JohnAdams

I'd kill for Clinton and his surplus. I'll give him full marks and take him back now in a heartbeat!

Really? or are you just joshing me.

Ok... I'm trying to peg you know. You're not a Dem or Rep. You are ? (inquiring minds want to know)

543 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:54:12pm
544 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:54:13pm

re: #509 Walter L. Newton

Otherwise punch him in the jaw. Oh, I'm sorry, you were talking about a sport.

yes Walter! How are you?
Just fair sports..I ragged on Hockey earlier..But really what other sport besides Boxing can you went somebody pisses you off you can just pull off your gloves off and knock their teeth out? I know that sounds fun in politics..But come on? LOL

545 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:54:17pm

re: #515 fried spam

Very nice. But this is not about religion or science-but law and social policy. It's not about how God did it, what canvas he uses, how he mixes the colors on the palette or which flippin' brush he likes. It's about doing an end-run on the First Amendment all in the name of shoring up "traditional" values in our schools. You say you want the concept of God to be taught somehow in the public schools? Believe it or not, you and our Muslim fascist enemies have something in common as they want the same thing to.

Do you and others like you fail to see that in the process of trying to shore up our society you are undermining part of its foundation?

546 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:54:27pm
547 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:54:43pm

re: #540 Walter L. Newton

How do we define socially left? I haven't a clue.

548 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:54:45pm

re: #541 BigPapa

Roxana Saberi: journalist released from Iran.

Search for her on the intar tubes.

Egads how embarrassing. Yes indeed. I have to slap myself now.

Yes, she is. Japanese/Persian. Very sultry.

549 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:54:51pm

re: #525 Walter L. Newton

Avanti... earth to Avanti... come back... Yesterday, he was whining about how car brokers rip off little old ladies and charities when they deal with donated cars (Avanti missed out on a Studerbaker he wanted that was donated to Goodwill) and with in 30 posts he was then whining that he would LOVE to be able to afford to be a car broker.

Never got an answer on that flip-flop either.

Walter. if you want a fight, look elsewhere, I got tired of trying to explain my position over dozens of posts and will not waste band width continuing it here.

550 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:55:14pm

re: #539 Bloodnok

You just said it's not a left-right (conservative-liberal) issue.

Once one starts down the path of lying and spinning about anything, it becomes unconscious second nature.

551 solomonpanting  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:56:14pm

re: #532 BigPapa

Is it me or is Roxana Saberi smokey hot?

Well, she was Miss North Dakota in 1997.

552 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:56:17pm

re: #536 Dianna

Shogun has next to no (count it, no) fighting. It's about culture, thinking, and manuver.

Really, I didn't know that. The title itself would have not attracted me to the book. I have a reading pile backing up. My girlfriend has put a few really good books on my list, and I am trying to get them finished. Currently about 100 pages from the end of "Cryptonomicon." Then "The King David Report" is next.

553 Opilio  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:56:20pm

re: #532 BigPapa

Is it me or is Roxana Saberi smokey hot?

If only one of you is smokey hot, it's probably Roxana.

554 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:56:40pm

re: #537 JohnAdams

Well, don't fret. After 2010, Obama and his Party will bring back Clintonian "gun control", except I think they will do it better.

/yea!
/

555 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:56:40pm

re: #549 avanti

Walter. if you want a fight, look elsewhere, I got tired of trying to explain my position over dozens of posts and will not waste band width continuing it here.

Agreed. Walter, lay off a little.

556 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:56:45pm

re: #549 avanti

You never explain anything, you just spin.

557 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:57:01pm
558 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:57:09pm

re: #547 Dianna

socially left?

Making a graceful exit? Leaving before you are asked to do so?

559 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:57:16pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fifty sucks, btw.

Give it hell young man.

Why, I joined an old guy hockey league at your age, son. I was really impressive for two games! Gashed ankle. Bloody nose. Dislocated shoulder.

Why, I can still play today!

/no i can't

560 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:57:34pm

re: #546 taxfreekiller

So, you a car broker now avanti or do you still rip off little old ladies as a private personal thing.

Um....just this instant, can we not joke about ripping off little old ladies? I just got back from my mom's, and the story is not - repeat: not - pretty. Little old ladies are definitely rip-offable.

561 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:58:15pm

re: #551 solomonpanting

Well, she was Miss North Dakota in 1997.

Oh oh... does she believe marriage is between a man and a woman (asked by a gay guy).

562 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:58:28pm

re: #550 FurryOldGuyJeans

Once one starts down the path of lying and spinning about anything, it becomes unconscious second nature.

It need not be, unless you push ID in public. It was a friggin typo, not a lie. I've been here long enough for you guys to know I'm about as far from a God made little green apples guy as there can be.

563 American Sabra  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:58:42pm

Ok, I turn into a pumpkin in 2 minutes. Gotta go. Good talking to ya'll.

564 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:58:43pm

re: #549 avanti

Walter. if you want a fight, look elsewhere, I got tired of trying to explain my position over dozens of posts and will not waste band width continuing it here.

Neener.

565 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:58:54pm

re: #549 avanti

Walter. if you want a fight, look elsewhere, I got tired of trying to explain my position over dozens of posts and will not waste band width continuing it here.

What a lame excuse. I'll share my "bandwidth" with you. If you know anything about networks and the internet, Charles' site is written in such a way that it really cuts down on hoggy transmissions and overburdened bandwidth.

Go for it, you're not wasting anything at LGF (except our time).

566 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:59:10pm
567 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:59:28pm

re: #552 Walter L. Newton

Cool.

You might like Shogun. I really don't know, of course - taste being extraordinarily individual - but it's not a bad book.

568 fried spam  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:59:30pm

re: #545 calcajun

Where on earth does this vitriol come from? I liked AFVetWife's comment and contributed something that I thought was in a similar vein.

I'm not sure how this is 'undermining' the foundation of our society.

Sheesh.

569 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 8:59:44pm

re: #565 Walter L. Newton

What a lame excuse. I'll share my "bandwidth" with you. If you know anything about networks and the internet, Charles' site is written in such a way that it really cuts down on hoggy transmissions and overburdened bandwidth.

Go for it, you're not wasting anything at LGF (except our time).

That'd make a nice rotating title.

570 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:08pm

re: #555 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Walter, lay off a little.

Got it. No.

571 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:12pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

63. My guess, before I saw your avatar. (Assuming that's you).

572 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:19pm
573 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:20pm

re: #542 American Sabra

Really? or are you just joshing me.

Ok... I'm trying to peg you know. You're not a Dem or Rep. You are ? (inquiring minds want to know)

I'm for what works and makes sense. Let American people work free, live free, and if any other country fucks with us let them know we will not be trifled with. I'm right center, and if you are my neighbor and you bust your ass to keep your home and you are gay, or Mennonite, or Hmong, or whatever well, welcome neighbor.

574 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:23pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

So, how old is tfk according to lgf's poster thinking?

You can't be younger than 68, I don't think.

I usually guess you at about 72 or so.

575 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:30pm

re: #562 avanti

It need not be, unless you push ID in public. It was a friggin typo, not a lie. I've been here long enough for you guys to know I'm about as far from a God made little green apples guy as there can be.

If God didn't make little green apples
Then it don't rain in Indianapolis
In the summertime ...

/evolushun cawzes teh global warming

576 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:40pm

re: #564 MandyManners

Neener.

Somebody got pwned royal and now wants to cry foul. boo-frikking-hoo.

577 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:40pm

re: #562 avanti

It need not be, unless you push ID in public. It was a friggin typo, not a lie. I've been here long enough for you guys to know I'm about as far from a God made little green apples guy as there can be.

Folks, can we lay off avanti on this one. People make mistakes. Some people here are being Internet Haters right now, and I don't like it. There's a difference between being part pf a tough room and being a hater.

578 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:53pm

re: #553 Opilio

If only one of you is smokey hot, it's probably Roxana.

Don't get all literal on my ass!

I'm not Japanese/Persian, but I am fat, bald, and lecherous. Magnificently so I might add.

579 Gus  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:00:58pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

So, how old is tfk according to lgf's poster thinking?

I would guess 69.

580 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:01:09pm

re: #557 Iron Fist

Oh, very well said!

581 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:01:25pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

So, how old is tfk according to lgf's poster thinking?

I don't know how old you are..But I know you are pretty fucking wise in the world..
that's all that matters really

582 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:01:46pm

re: #554 OldLineTexan

Well, don't fret. After 2010, Obama and his Party will bring back Clintonian "gun control", except I think they will do it better.

/yea!
/

Won't condone that. No fucking way. Guns are the people's security.

583 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:01:52pm

re: #560 Dianna
Anyone who rips off old folks should be deleted and deleted plus have deleted!

584 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:02:07pm

re: #567 Dianna

Cool.

You might like Shogun. I really don't know, of course - taste being extraordinarily individual - but it's not a bad book.

The TV mini-series might be a good introduction.

585 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:02:10pm
586 Opilio  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:02:11pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

So, how old is tfk according to lgf's poster thinking?

42.

Doesn't matter what the question is.

The answer is always 42.

587 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:02:19pm

re: #581 HoosierHoops

Killer answer!

588 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:02:19pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

So, how old is tfk according to lgf's poster thinking?

I don't know, but I lived in your neck of the woods for 15 years, and I suspect we have met at some time. Just a hunch.

589 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:02:28pm

Sometimes I make typos and then quickly correct them. Especially if they make my sentence say the opposite of what I meant to say.

590 solomonpanting  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:02:46pm

re: #561 BigPapa

Oh oh... does she believe marriage is between a man and a woman (asked by a gay guy).

Ah 'ave no idea. You'll have to send her a "Dear Roxana" letter.

591 AMER1CAN  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:03:04pm

OT: AP article that doesn't even mention that this may be reverse racism! Am I missing something here? WTF?

Buy-black experiment gathering momentum

Maggie and John Anderson of Chicago vowed four months ago that for one year, they would try to patronize only black-owned businesses. The "Empowerment Experiment" is the reason John had to suffer for hours with a stomach ache and Maggie no longer gets that brand-name lather when she washes her hair. A grocery trip is a 14-mile odyssey.

"We kind of enjoy the sacrifice because we get to make the point ... but I am going without stuff and I am frustrated on a daily basis," Maggie Anderson said. "It's like, my people have been here 400 years and we don't even have a Walgreens to show for it."

Go ahead and read the rest if you want a good laugh. I mean, what else can be said? Is that not racism or what? Is that not the complete anti-thesis of what MLK preached?

All aboard the train to Crazyland....

592 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:03:13pm

re: #582 JohnAdams

Won't condone that. No fucking way. Guns are the people's security.

Where were you for eight years of Uncle Bill and the Great HUD Caper?

593 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:03:31pm

re: #560 Dianna

Um....just this instant, can we not joke about ripping off little old ladies? I just got back from my mom's, and the story is not - repeat: not - pretty. Little old ladies are definitely rip-offable.

I had an elderly aunt who got ripped off by a con artist pretending to be me. Even though the guy was caught after conning others, same MO, I don't think she ever believed I had nothing to do with it.

594 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:03:38pm

re: #581 HoosierHoops

Is it me? Or is it just not the Rocket's night?

595 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:04:01pm

re: #556 FurryOldGuyJeans

You never explain anything, you just spin.

OK, what do you want explained: typo, or senior moment ? Thank God I didn't get the number of states wrong.

596 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:04:11pm
597 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:04:14pm

re: #588 Walter L. Newton

I don't know, but I lived in your neck of the woods for 15 years, and I suspect we have met at some time. Just a hunch.

What are you? Like 90?

598 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:04:29pm

re: #560 Dianna

{Dianna}
Good luck!

599 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:04:38pm

re: #585 taxfreekiller

tfk snow skis
tfk water skis
tfk does 26.2's
tfk does 100 mile bicycle rides
tfk does ta-kwan-do
tfk dances with ms tfk to 2:00 A.M

So, you're Chuck Norris? :D

600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:04:39pm

re: #596 taxfreekiller

I dinged you. Cause I know it's me.

601 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:05:06pm

re: #595 avanti

57 as you well know! :)

602 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:05:08pm

re: #575 OldLineTexan

Who wrote that? Or performed it, anyway? I remember it from when I was a kid.

603 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:05:20pm

I have the #1 recommended comment on LGF today.
Hooray for me!
I'm still trying to work out getting in the top ten list and the bottom ten list on the same day.

604 Timbre  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:05:20pm

O/T: Just got me a new dog to keep company with our Shih Tzu: A Pomeranian-Chihuahua mix. Looks and acts like a fox, except for the upturned tail. Adopted from the animal shelter!

605 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:05:39pm

re: #589 jaunte

Sometimes I make typos and then quickly correct them. Especially if they make my sentence say the opposite of what I meant to say.

That's if you noticed it. Are we going to spend a lovely evening discussing my typo ?

606 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:05:44pm

re: #583 pingjockey

Anyone who rips off old folks should be deleted and deleted plus have deleted!

Yep.

I'm irate. Let's leave it at that.

607 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:00pm

re: #605 avanti

No.

608 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:07pm

re: #544 HoosierHoops

yes Walter! How are you?
Just fair sports..I ragged on Hockey earlier..But really what other sport besides Boxing can you went somebody pisses you off you can just pull off your gloves off and knock their teeth out? I know that sounds fun in politics..But come on? LOL

That'll get you a 5 minute major in the NHL and probably cost your team a goal/game. Not much of that gloves off stuff anymore at that level. But try minor league hockey some time for some real entertainment!

By the way, as a relatively new Hoosier you need to get out and about in the Winter there and check out the local ponds and such. You will see a lot of fun going on with young kids- not unlike neighborhood b-ball you know. In Northern IN where I grew up it was basketball, basketball, basketball...and then it was hockey! Lots of skill, trust me on that.
Hockey sucks on TV. Go to an pro game sometime. You will not regret it.

609 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:14pm

re: #601 pingjockey

57 as you well know! :)

Tis true, cause my leader tell me so.

610 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:14pm
611 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:14pm

re: #594 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is it me? Or is it just not the Rocket's night?

It so bothers me to watch the Lakers win that I'm watching Leno now..Dennis Miller is really funny tonight...

612 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:17pm

re: #597 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What are you? Like 90?

I'm 56. I lived in Brooklyn NY till I was 11. Lived in North Joysee until I was 21. Lived in Texas from 1974 till 1989 and now have been in the Denver area since then.

613 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:18pm

re: #604 Timbre

A new critter is always fun.

614 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:20pm

re: #603 Killgore Trout
That is going to take some doing!

615 solomonpanting  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:35pm

re: #605 avanti

That's if you noticed it. Are we going to spend a lovely evening discussing my typo ?

Not sure if he's your typo.

616 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:06:59pm

re: #589 jaunte

Sometimes I make typos and then quickly correct them. Especially if they make my sentence say the opposite of what I meant to say.

Been there, done that. And I don't ignore the incoming when I get called on my mistakes by other lizards, I own up soonest.

617 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:06pm

re: #609 avanti
Heh.

618 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:08pm

re: #529 avanti

Got it. I don't think belief in evolution is a conservative or liberal political positions. I'll even accept a politician that believes in ID as lot as that's a personal belief and not pushed in the public domain. I mistyped "evolution" for creationism, thus the confusion. Senior moment.

I don't believe you.

619 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:09pm

re: #603 Killgore Trout

Here. Just to piss you off. My vow, never to down ding you.

*Maniacal laugh!*

620 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:21pm

re: #614 pingjockey

I can make it happen. I frequently appear on both lists but not at the same time.

621 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:22pm

re: #592 OldLineTexan

Where were you for eight years of Uncle Bill and the Great HUD Caper?

OLT, I have seen the light, have bought a couple guns, and considering joining the NRA. My props to Clinton are more to illustrate my complete mortification at the current clowns occupying the White House.

622 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:25pm
623 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:35pm

re: #603 Killgore Trout

I have the #1 recommended comment on LGF today.
Hooray for me!

I'm still trying to work out getting in the top ten list and the bottom ten list on the same day.

I know you can do it, hell, I've seen you get close with out even trying hard.

624 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:36pm

re: #593 Kosh's Shadow

OW!

There were four exclamation marks attached to that.

It's been a miserable couple weeks. That's pretty much all I've got to say in a public forum.

625 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:07:41pm
626 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:08:11pm

re: #622 taxfreekiller

heh

627 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:08:22pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

So, how old is tfk according to lgf's poster thinking?

H.S. class of '66

628 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:08:34pm

re: #618 Sharmuta

I don't believe you.

Ha!

629 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:08:44pm

re: #620 Killgore Trout
Good luck with that endevour!

630 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:09:05pm

re: #624 Dianna

OW!

There were four exclamation marks attached to that.

It's been a miserable couple weeks. That's pretty much all I've got to say in a public forum.

{Dianna}

631 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:09:15pm

re: #585 taxfreekiller

tfk snow skis
tfk water skis
tfk does 26.2's
tfk does 100 mile bicycle rides
tfk does ta-kwan-do
tfk dances with ms tfk to 2:00 A.M

Sweetie, I just hope my Male does as well as time goes on.

You are an inspiration. To say nothing of being a perfectly brilliant blank-verse poet.

632 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:09:19pm

re: #602 Dianna

Who wrote that? Or performed it, anyway? I remember it from when I was a kid.

EVERYBODY did that one, and I can hear the version my mother liked, but I can't tell you who it was. Lots of syrupy strings, though.

633 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:09:33pm

re: #529 avanti

Got it. I don't think belief in evolution is a conservative or liberal political positions. I'll even accept a politician that believes in ID as lot as that's a personal belief and not pushed in the public domain. I mistyped "evolution" for creationism, thus the confusion. Senior moment.

Seriously. You didn't even address whether you accept the veracity of evolution or not. You expect me to swallow this garbage?

634 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:09:55pm

re: #568 fried spam

Where on earth does this vitriol come from? I liked AFVetWife's comment and contributed something that I thought was in a similar vein.

I'm not sure how this is 'undermining' the foundation of our society.

Sheesh.

It's not vitriol. It's that this whole issue of ID/Creationism is a ticking time bomb in the GOP. There are many promising rising stars who will have that taint on them. If they dare enter the national stage, they're marked for a media mugging. It's an issue that is going to cost the party someday.

The question is how to rein in the ID/Creationist crowd without alienating them completely. If that happens, then the party will fracture and we will go down the socialist path.

I agree--God made the universe, the planets, Earth, Bill Shatner's ego and other inexplicable phenomena. We don't know how he did it. We're trying to figure it out, but it's like being giving a computer by your brother wihtout instructions--there's bound to be a lot of fumbling around. But, I certainly do not want religion in any form to be promulgated in the public school systems--for many reasons.

635 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:10:09pm
636 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:10:30pm

re: #612 Walter L. Newton

47 this august. Hell, because I look, well, like a 30 year old I've just started on telling people I'm nearing fifty.

Kind of easier that way. Have 4 years without thinking hard.

637 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:10:30pm
638 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:10:41pm

OT - LOST season closer Wed. evening. Can't wait, can hardly sleep.

639 JohnAdams  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:10:53pm

re: #625 Iron Fist

Guns are like football in this country. I don't think we have anything to worry about...yet.

640 pygmalienation  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:10:58pm

Re: Triumphguy

This used to be a great site for obscure news. The best part of it now is the music- sigh. Pity.


I guess the music isn't even real since the acoustic science behind it is "from the minds of men"
I just love all this unreal music that you showcase, Charles.

If I hadn't seen him live, I'd wouldn't have believed Tommy Emmanuel was "real". lol

641 Zimriel  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:11:18pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Folks, can we lay off avanti on this one. People make mistakes. Some people here are being Internet Haters right now, and I don't like it. There's a difference between being part pf a tough room and being a hater.

Thanks for that reality check, Dark Falcon.

I've learnt that mercy might not seem like a virtue... until you screw up and need it.

642 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:11:19pm

re: #585 taxfreekiller

tfk snow skis
tfk water skis
tfk does 26.2's
tfk does 100 mile bicycle rides
tfk does ta-kwan-do
tfk dances with ms tfk to 2:00 A.M

But do you dance the Tarantella? Ha!/

643 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:11:58pm

re: #540 Walter L. Newton

Avanti. Do you know what I do for a living? You're not more socially left than I am, for sure.

Nay, nay... I'm more socially left than you.... nay, nay.

I do Walter and you are not part of that "most" I mentioned. I seldom have a disagreement with your posts on social issues.

644 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:12:53pm

I should go nighty night.

645 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:13:04pm

re: #615 solomonpanting

Not sure if he's your typo.

Depends on how long I've been at sea.:)

646 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:14:06pm
647 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:14:51pm

OT: The youngest girl was awarded top student in the sixth grade at her school tonight. I am so proud, gotta brag!

/no, she is not home-schooled

648 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:14:53pm

re: #615 solomonpanting

Not sure if he's your typo.

I heard he's set in his ways and can't face new challenges.

649 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:15:58pm

re: #642 calcajun

But do you dance the Tarantella? Ha!/

How many people do you know who can in their 20's, any more?! I can keep up for two iterations, and then...I fall down.

650 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:16:07pm

re: #647 OldLineTexan

OT: The youngest girl was awarded top student in the sixth grade at her school tonight. I am so proud, gotta brag!

/no, she is not home-schooled

Brag on, brother! You've earned it. :)

651 Zimriel  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:16:07pm

re: #603 Killgore Trout

I have the #1 recommended comment on LGF today.
Hooray for me!
I'm still trying to work out getting in the top ten list and the bottom ten list on the same day.

I so beat you to that. I bet it eats at you that I did.

*evil laf*

652 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:16:27pm

re: #649 Dianna

Isn't that the point of the dance?

653 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:16:36pm
654 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:16:38pm

re: #574 Dianna

You can't be younger than 68, I don't think.

I usually guess you at about 72 or so.

My best guess, based on his previous posts, is that TFK was an enlisted trooper in the Army in 1971/1972. One of the last draftees. He was 18/19 years old. That makes him 57/58 years old. Since then, he has embraced the Republic of Texas as his raison d'etre. Pity.

655 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:16:49pm

re: #647 OldLineTexan

Ya got a hat big enuf for yore head pardner?!
Well done to your daughter!

656 Timbre  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:17:44pm

re: #613 Killgore Trout

A new critter is always fun.

After my 15-year old Cocker Spaniel died in January from a stroke (we nursed her for one full week before we had to make that terrible trip to the Vet) I was going to wait a long time before getting another dog. But our Shih Tzu was already here and no longer had his cocker friend, so I rectified that situation. I hoper they live a long happy life together!

657 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:17:46pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Folks, can we lay off avanti on this one. People make mistakes. Some people here are being Internet Haters right now, and I don't like it. There's a difference between being part pf a tough room and being a hater.

You know- I'm one of the last people who needs a lecture on internet haters. I don't hate avanti- I barely speak to him. I do think he's full of shit, however, and I don't buy his spin. Perhaps it's because I've been nursing an ocular migraine for 26 hours that I'm cranky, but if something stinks, I'm going to say something about it, and I'd kindly ask you to refrain from calling people who do so "haters". Thank you.

658 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:17:49pm

re: #647 OldLineTexan

OT: The youngest girl was awarded top student in the sixth grade at her school tonight. I am so proud, gotta brag!

/no, she is not home-schooled

My condolences on now having a youngin' smarter than you.///

Congrats.

659 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:18:04pm

re: #608 The Shadow Do

That'll get you a 5 minute major in the NHL and probably cost your team a goal/game. Not much of that gloves off stuff anymore at that level. But try minor league hockey some time for some real entertainment!

By the way, as a relatively new Hoosier you need to get out and about in the Winter there and check out the local ponds and such. You will see a lot of fun going on with young kids- not unlike neighborhood b-ball you know. In Northern IN where I grew up it was basketball, basketball, basketball...and then it was hockey! Lots of skill, trust me on that.
Hockey sucks on TV. Go to an pro game sometime. You will not regret it.


LOL
hey friend..really..I can't stop laughing..I can't answer you..
things are the list above seeing a hockey game..
1..Seeing dancing with the stars live sick with the flu on the floor in the bathroom
2. Lawn seats on a rainy night at Verizon Center..and your favorite band in the world cancels
3. Rain-out with a 4 hour bus ride home...
4. Being the guy having to Video cam Roger Clemons getting needles stuck in his ass.with Steroids
5. Getting free tickets to the Letterman show

These are a few of my favorite things...

660 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:18:06pm

I'm pretty sure the Avanti does not realize how socially liberal many are on this blog, or in the GOP for that matter. Type casting. Will vote Dem over and over on that simple misconception. Foolish.

661 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:18:10pm

re: #654 austin_blue

My best guess, based on his previous posts, is that TFK was an enlisted trooper in the Army in 1971/1972. One of the last draftees. He was 18/19 years old. That makes him 57/58 years old. Since then, he has embraced the Republic of Texas as his raison d'etre. Pity.

And what is wrong with TFK embrace of Texas and why is it a pity?

662 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:18:16pm

re: #655 pingjockey

Ya got a hat big enuf for yore head pardner?!
Well done to your daughter!

All hat, no cattle.

/ask tfk
/

663 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:18:22pm

re: #653 taxfreekiller
Admiral Greta Hopper.

664 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:18:23pm

re: #647 OldLineTexan

OT: The youngest girl was awarded top student in the sixth grade at her school tonight. I am so proud, gotta brag!

/no, she is not home-schooled

Oh, and lest I forget, major props to that youngin'! :)

665 solomonpanting  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:18:34pm

re: #648 calcajun

I heard he's set in his ways and can't face new challenges.

I've an inkling you may be correct.

666 sngnsgt  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:19:04pm

re: #658 calcajun

LOL!

667 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:19:10pm

Must perambulate with my son. Now listening to Amity Shlaes' "The Forgotten Man". Good book so far.

668 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:19:11pm

re: #647 OldLineTexan

OT: The youngest girl was awarded top student in the sixth grade at her school tonight. I am so proud, gotta brag!

/no, she is not home-schooled

I was at our middle school athletic banquet earlier tonight. My son won the basketball MVP, soccer MVP and Athlete of the Year award tonight. We have a small school, 400 students K thru 8th, and only two sports…basketball and soccer. Very proud Papa tonight.

669 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:19:34pm

re: #658 calcajun

My condolences on now having a youngin' smarter than you.///

Congrats.

Dey iz all smarter than u frum 16 2 24!

670 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:20:09pm

re: #662 OldLineTexan
Heh! Haven't heard that one in a while.

671 swamprat  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:20:09pm

re: #654 austin_blue

I think your life would be best if you never met him.

672 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:20:45pm

re: #668 jorline

I was at our middle school athletic banquet earlier tonight. My son won the basketball MVP, soccer MVP and Athlete of the Year award tonight. We have a small school, 400 students K thru 8th, and only two sports…basketball and soccer. Very proud Papa tonight.

Woohoo! First round's on me, jorline!

673 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:21:00pm

re: #652 calcajun

Isn't that the point of the dance?

No. It's to make the old folks fall down. So they don't notice what kids do.

674 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:21:01pm

re: #657 Sharmuta

Migraines are no fun.

{Sharm}

675 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:21:03pm
676 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:21:34pm

re: #659 HoosierHoops

LOL
hey friend..really..I can't stop laughing..I can't answer you..
things are the list above seeing a hockey game..
1..Seeing dancing with the stars live sick with the flu on the floor in the bathroom
2. Lawn seats on a rainy night at Verizon Center..and your favorite band in the world cancels
3. Rain-out with a 4 hour bus ride home...
4. Being the guy having to Video cam Roger Clemons getting needles stuck in his ass.with Steroids
5. Getting free tickets to the Letterman show

These are a few of my favorite things...

But you might like hockey?

677 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:21:46pm

re: #641 Zimriel

Thanks for that reality check, Dark Falcon.

I've learnt that mercy might not seem like a virtue... until you screw up and need it.

The good news, is that I can step back from the abyss into Kool Aid, liberal-land with one click when the room gets too hot. This blog is like a alternate universe, interesting, but dangerous at times.

678 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:21:57pm

re: #654 austin_blue

Are you stalking tfk or some shit? Better hope he doesn't try to teach you about one.

679 JacksonTn  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:22:11pm

re: #654 austin_blue

austin_blue ... very ugly thing for you to say ...

680 Moody Leo  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:22:12pm

OT think General Mills is gonna be on DHS list?[Link: wcbstv.com...]

681 Timbre  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:22:22pm

re: #668 jorline

I was at our middle school athletic banquet earlier tonight. My son won the basketball MVP, soccer MVP and Athlete of the Year award tonight. We have a small school, 400 students K thru 8th, and only two sports…basketball and soccer. Very proud Papa tonight.

Congratulations to your son! May I recommend you all begin thinking about Angelo State University, San Angelo, TX. Small college, good athletics, great academics!

682 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:22:22pm

re: #668 jorline
Bravo!

683 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:22:53pm

re: #585 taxfreekiller

tfk snow skis
tfk water skis
tfk does 26.2's
tfk does 100 mile bicycle rides
tfk does ta-kwan-do
tfk dances with ms tfk to 2:00 A.M

But TFK still hasn't figured out how to type an ellipsis,,,

684 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:23:20pm

re: #675 taxfreekiller
Mwahahaha! I'll just bet the lifers were po'd!

685 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:23:45pm

re: #677 avanti

The good news, is that I can step back from the abyss into Kool Aid, liberal-land with one click when the room gets too hot. This blog is like a alternate universe, interesting, but dangerous at times.

What a jerk wad. Hyperbole central tonight, aren't we Avanti. Poor fucking little Avanti.

686 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:24:12pm

re: #668 jorline

I was at our middle school athletic banquet earlier tonight. My son won the basketball MVP, soccer MVP and Athlete of the Year award tonight. We have a small school, 400 students K thru 8th, and only two sports…basketball and soccer. Very proud Papa tonight.

That is just totally wonderful..I'm sure you are so proud...
Just awesome!

687 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:24:37pm
688 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:25:10pm

re: #660 The Shadow Do

I'm pretty sure the Avanti does not realize how socially liberal many are on this blog, or in the GOP for that matter. Type casting. Will vote Dem over and over on that simple misconception. Foolish.

You could be right. I've said that I bought all the stereotypes about the right until I found LGF. I thought the right was all pro life, anti gay, evolution and climate change.

689 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:25:41pm

re: #688 avanti

You could be right. I've said that I bought all the stereotypes about the right until I found LGF. I thought the right was all pro life, anti gay, evolution and climate change.

Do you accept the veracity of evolution?

690 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:25:48pm

re: #657 Sharmuta

You know- I'm one of the last people who needs a lecture on internet haters. I don't hate avanti- I barely speak to him. I do think he's full of shit, however, and I don't buy his spin. Perhaps it's because I've been nursing an ocular migraine for 26 hours that I'm cranky, but if something stinks, I'm going to say something about it, and I'd kindly ask you to refrain from calling people who do so "haters". Thank you.

He's often wrong, I agree. I've often down-dinged avanti for left-wing posts. However, on the issue of what he meant to say regarding evolution, it looked like an undeserved pile-on to me. You are free to disagree with me, but that how I saw it.

Full Disclosure: Growing up, I was often the victim of pile-ons and sometimes ended up being the one the room made fun of. On rare occassions, people still decide to badger me for fun because personal oddities. That's a big reason as to why I defend avanti and Cognito: I know what it's like to have the room against you.

691 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:26:24pm

re: #654 austin_blue

My best guess, based on his previous posts, is that TFK was an enlisted trooper in the Army in 1971/1972. One of the last draftees. He was 18/19 years old. That makes him 57/58 years old. Since then, he has embraced the Republic of Texas as his raison d'etre. Pity.

You're not paying attention, then. This is from tonight. And from my recollection of TFK's posts I don't think anything he has ever accomplished has been a "pity". I should be so lucky to contribute 1/1000th what he has even from just his post-military political activism.

692 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:26:34pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

Do you accept the veracity of evolution?

say THAT ten times fast

693 Ojoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:27:02pm

re: #462 FurryOldGuyJeans

Unclenching our own fist by not maintaining the nukes is the grandest folly, it is parallel to what the French and English peace parties were doing in the 1920s and 1930s, guess where that led?

694 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:27:10pm

re: #676 The Shadow Do

But you might like hockey?

Remember in the movie Dumb and Dumber where Jim Carey asked the girl what the chances are they could get together? She says..well about one in a million..He thinks about it says..
So you are saying there is a chance?
LOL

695 Animal  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:27:27pm

re: #94 Charles

There are none.

Denver, 850KOA, Mike Rosen. Strong conservative, a global warming skeptic but on evolution his position is unambiguous - he accepts modern biology.

696 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:27:38pm

re: #676 The Shadow Do

Nah, he's a Lakers fan!
/

697 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:27:44pm
698 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:27:48pm

re: #654 austin_blue

His picture doesn't support that.

699 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:27:49pm

re: #654 austin_blue

Go piss up a rope.

700 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:28:16pm

re: #688 avanti

You could be right. I've said that I bought all the stereotypes about the right until I found LGF. I thought the right was all pro life, anti gay, evolution and climate change.

We are even "put up with Avanti." Really a big tent sort of group, aren't we?

701 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:28:28pm

re: #681 Timbre

Congratulations to your son! May I recommend you all begin thinking about Angelo State University, San Angelo, TX. Small college, good athletics, great academics!

Thanks Timbre. Not to far from home...at least it's Texas. His best sport is baseball. Academics is real important and he's a very good student...not a natural, but he works his ass off. We're very proud of him.

702 avanti  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:28:42pm

re: #685 Walter L. Newton

What a jerk wad. Hyperbole central tonight, aren't we Avanti. Poor fucking little Avanti.

OK, Walter, I see you are itching for a fight, and I'm not in the mood. Besides, it's late and I need my sleep. Night Walter and the rest.

703 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:29:08pm

re: #682 pingjockey

Bravo!

Thanks ping.

704 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:29:28pm

re: #699 MandyManners
Darn, I thought you left! I wuz gonna beat you to it!

705 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:29:47pm

re: #702 avanti

OK, Walter, I see you are itching for a fight, and I'm not in the mood. Besides, it's late and I need my sleep. Night Walter and the rest.

Good night. From this point on I will be calling you an evolution denier, BTW.

706 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:30:00pm

re: #695 Animal

Denver, 850KOA, Mike Rosen. Strong conservative, a global warming skeptic but on evolution his position is unambiguous - he accepts modern biology.

Correct. Mike could almost be a poster boy for some of the straight thinking conservative ideas that Charles and others espouse here. He's been on KOA for over 20 years and is very connected in the radio business.

707 Salamantis  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:30:10pm

re: #140 BigPapa

No True Purely Objective Scientist would ever exclude ID.....

FTFY

708 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:30:23pm

re: #675 taxfreekiller

the ones from Austin go down to the bridge every night to watch the
real bats.....

Navy dip shit.
Joined
attached to S.O.G., operation igloowhite, sensor install ... north of the I-Corps...1966 to 1970, they took us in as E-5's and E-6's first day
IPO's aka Instant Petty Officers, pissed off the lifers real bad,,,

Thank you for that completly incoherent post......

709 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:30:23pm

re: #654 austin_blue

My best guess, based on his previous posts, is that TFK was an enlisted trooper in the Army in 1971/1972. One of the last draftees. He was 18/19 years old. That makes him 57/58 years old. Since then, he has embraced the Republic of Texas as his raison d'etre. Pity.

I see you've got a major negative rating on that comment. I'm not entirely sure why?

Could you, who dinged it down, explain your down-dings to me? It's a fair speculation.

710 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:30:28pm

re: #703 jorline

We don't have our awards till the end of the year.

711 swamprat  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:30:29pm

re: #688 avanti

And you came here to straighten us out"
...Just a question...

Zeus knows, you wouldn't be the first.

712 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:30:47pm

re: #688 avanti

You could be right. I've said that I bought all the stereotypes about the right until I found LGF. I thought the right was all pro life, anti gay, evolution and climate change.

The right fringe is as you describe, just as the left fringe buys: abortion all the time/any time, pro gay no matter how gross and in your face, evolution is proof that God is a Gomer/does not exist, Al Gore is absolutely right!

713 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:31:14pm

re: #705 Sharmuta

Good night. From this point on I will be calling you an evolution denier, BTW.

Now everyone is going to blame me for scaring Avanti away. Sorry (in a pig's eye sorry).

714 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:31:17pm

I think avanti IS al gore.

715 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:31:21pm

re: #708 austin_blue
What in hell is your major malfunction?

716 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:31:49pm

re: #709 Dianna

I'd guess it was because of the last part.

717 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:31:58pm

re: #672 OldLineTexan

Woohoo! First round's on me, jorline!

A toast to your daughter and my son...accomplishments by our children should be celebrated.

/tip of the glass

718 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:32:23pm

re: #708 austin_blue

Thank you for that completly incoherent post......

What he did was take your post, turn it around on you, turn it again sideways and then jam it up your ass. Clear enough for you?

719 Ojoe  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:32:45pm

re: #714 Sharmuta

Nah. Gore is too boring to own Studebakers.

Good night all.

720 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:32:46pm

re: #709 Dianna

I see you've got a major negative rating on that comment. I'm not entirely sure why?

Could you, who dinged it down, explain your down-dings to me? It's a fair speculation.

I didn't down-ding it, but I did not comprehend the last two sentences. If "Pity" is a sentence, that is.

721 JacksonTn  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:32:50pm

re: #709 Dianna

Dianna ... why the "pity" ... maybe he could explain that ...

722 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:32:59pm

re: #709 Dianna

I see you've got a major negative rating on that comment. I'm not entirely sure why?

Could you, who dinged it down, explain your down-dings to me? It's a fair speculation.

Fine question. I'm assuming that TFK is unassailable on this board.

723 Digital Display  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:33:11pm

re: #714 Sharmuta

I think avanti IS al gore.

Do you think he's send me some Carbon Credits?

724 Opilio  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:33:40pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

Do you accept the veracity of evolution?

Absolutely, but I have serious doubts about the pompatus of love.

725 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:33:46pm

re: #708 austin_blue

Thank you for that completly incoherent post......

Understanding TFK requires a minimal amount of effort. Not everyone is willing to make that effort.

Pity.

726 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:34:06pm

re: #722 austin_blue

Fine question. I'm assuming that TFK is unassailable on this board.

Not really. Just part of the static.

Look up the word "Narrenfreiheit".

727 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:34:21pm

re: #724 Opilio

Absolutely, but I have serious doubts about the pompatus of love.

Are you still toking at midnight, Maurice?

728 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:34:25pm

re: #713 Walter L. Newton

Now everyone is going to blame me for scaring Avanti away. Sorry (in a pig's eye sorry).

Won't get any blame from me no matter what the outcome.

729 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:35:16pm

re: #708 austin_blue

Thank you for that completly incoherent post......

Hey jerk. Click on my name and give me a phone call. I'd like to tell you to your face that you are a fucking ass wipe of the highest order.

730 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:35:18pm

re: #724 Opilio

Absolutely, but I have serious doubts about the pompatus of love.

See- that wasn't so hard, was it? In fact- the only thing easier than telling me you accept evolution is to ignore me.

731 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:35:22pm

re: #710 pingjockey

We don't have our awards till the end of the year.

We only have one and a half weeks left and his 8th grade class will be in DC all next week on their class trip.

Don't worry...I warned him about some of the liberals he would see while visiting and told him not to go near the WH....lol

732 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:35:23pm

re: #699 MandyManners

Ok, I'm lost.

You know I'm a fan of tfk's. So...why is austin blue in trouble, here?

733 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:35:47pm

re: #709 Dianna

I'm kinda new, and hardly ever "down ding", but that comment just struck me as stalker-ish. I enjoy TFK's posts, but would not speculate as to the "meat world" person behind the posts. This is teh intertubes. How do you know? And, more importantly, why would you try? That's the creepy part, IMHO.

734 swamprat  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:36:10pm

re: #711 swamprat
straighten us out ?

735 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:36:14pm

re: #732 Dianna

Ok, I'm lost.

You know I'm a fan of tfk's. So...why is austin blue in trouble, here?

I found his profiling of TFK to be creepy.

736 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:36:16pm

re: #722 austin_blue

Fine question. I'm assuming that TFK is unassailable on this board.

Um...no?

I love tfk. I admire tfk.

I'm lost, here.

737 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:36:59pm

re: #731 jorline
Cool. I hope they get to go to the Smithsonian!

738 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:37:23pm

re: #729 Walter L. Newton

Hey jerk. Click on my name and give me a phone call. I'd like to tell you to your face that you are a fucking ass wipe of the highest order.

Dude.

Not cool.

739 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:37:27pm

re: #718 Dark_Falcon

What he did was take your post, turn it around on you, turn it again sideways and then jam it up your ass. Clear enough for you?

What? How? I pride myself on cogent comment, as Dianna has noted. How have my postings been slammed back upon me by TFK? Just curious.

740 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:37:38pm

re: #732 Dianna

For this post. Some people called him on the "pity" remark and he came back with smack.

re: #654 austin_blue

My best guess, based on his previous posts, is that TFK was an enlisted trooper in the Army in 1971/1972. One of the last draftees. He was 18/19 years old. That makes him 57/58 years old. Since then, he has embraced the Republic of Texas as his raison d'etre. Pity.

741 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:37:39pm
742 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:37:44pm

re: #733 Floral Giraffe

I'm kinda new, and hardly ever "down ding", but that comment just struck me as stalker-ish. I enjoy TFK's posts, but would not speculate as to the "meat world" person behind the posts. This is teh intertubes. How do you know? And, more importantly, why would you try? That's the creepy part, IMHO.

Excuse me?

Tfk invited speculation, didn't he? Austin blue just tried to run a correlation, so far as I could see. I'm a little confused, here?

743 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:38:21pm

re: #741 taxfreekiller

bed

ditto.

744 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:38:40pm

re: #741 taxfreekiller
G'night

745 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:38:51pm

re: #737 pingjockey

Cool. I hope they get to go to the Smithsonian!

If they see Ben Stiller, tell them to run like hell. If not, enjoy it! That's an awesome visit!

746 Kronocide  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:39:26pm

What we have here is unchecked aggression.

747 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:39:29pm

re: #735 Sharmuta

I found his profiling of TFK to be creepy.

And his dig at Texas was more than a bit rude. I am not from Texas, and only once been to Texas (drove through the panhandle on a road trip from Tennessee to CA at 100+), and found the remark over the top.

748 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:39:59pm

re: #735 Sharmuta

I found his profiling of TFK to be creepy.

You're kidding, right? We all profile! Any of us who answered tfk's initial post were profiling! Me, included! Maybe I didn't make it as specific (that is, I didn't explain my reasoning), but I did indeed, profile, based on my experience of tfk!

What the hell?!

What am I missing?

749 [deleted]  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:40:42pm
750 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:41:09pm

re: #740 Walter L. Newton

Oh - the "pity" remark? Oh. I think I halfway understand that. It's the rest of the hostility I don't get.

751 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:41:23pm

re: #748 Dianna

You're kidding, right? We all profile! Any of us who answered tfk's initial post were profiling! Me, included! Maybe I didn't make it as specific (that is, I didn't explain my reasoning), but I did indeed, profile, based on my experience of tfk!

What the hell?!

What am I missing?

I told you, at least for me, it was his "pity" remark about TFK. Read the post again. I called austin-blue on it and got no answer. And then he comes back talking smack about TFK.

752 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:41:40pm

re: #745 Desert Dog
Spent 2 years stationed in Rhode Island and never took leave and went to DC. I truly regret that now.

753 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:42:06pm

re: #749 taxfreekiller

Cato if your not careful, I'll blow CO2 all over you.

CH4 is more fun.

754 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:42:38pm

re: #739 austin_blue

I'm so confused here, I don't know where to start.

Is this because I've been gone for a couple weeks?

755 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:43:05pm

re: #735 Sharmuta

I found his profiling of TFK to be creepy.

re: #742 Dianna

Profiling was creepy, I may have missed it, but I did not see it invited.

756 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:43:48pm

re: #752 pingjockey

Spent 2 years stationed in Rhode Island and never took leave and went to DC. I truly regret that now.

Too bad. Washington DC, in general is a really cool place to explore. I took older ones there when they were 10-11. They loved it. I went there for the first time when I was in Middle School. I am planning on taking my 8 year old there soon.

757 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:44:45pm

re: #753 OldLineTexan
NO2

758 summergurl  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:44:52pm

Logged in and saw all the commotion. Man, Avanti is at it again.

And TFK never bothers anyone.. you have to decipher his posts but that's just him.

Back to bed - everyone go get a snack and play nice.//

759 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:44:55pm

TFK is cool.

If you don't get him you don't get him.

Whatever.

760 Opilio  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:45:11pm

re: #727 Desert Dog

Are you still toking at midnight, Maurice?

That information is need-to-know.

761 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:45:30pm

re: #751 Walter L. Newton

I suspect I've missed the "smack talk."

I'm trying to catch up, and I suspect I've missed some posts. sorry.

I'm very distressed - I don't like the jumping.

762 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:45:31pm

He who makes fun of the court jester risks becoming the new court jester.

763 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:45:44pm
I don’t want to deal with the science, there are others better equipped to do that. What interests me is how the left doesn’t seem to be willing to even admit that there is another side or any competing science.

No competing science? Science is a competition. If you are the first to finally explain some unexplained phenomena or observe something no one ever noticed before and others can verify your findings the recognition is like winning a championship.

You don't get to have your own "competing science". That doesn't even make any sense.

764 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:45:49pm

re: #757 pingjockey

NO2

Party at the dentist's!

But it has no carbon ... needs carbon 2 B bad.

765 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:46:27pm

re: #755 Floral Giraffe

re: #742 Dianna

Profiling was creepy, I may have missed it, but I did not see it invited.

Look back - tfk asked us go guess his age. Use my nic for a guide - I quoted his question.

766 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:46:33pm

re: #762 Cato the Elder

He who makes fun of the court jester risks becoming the new court jester.

Or court punching bag

767 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:46:56pm

re: #755 Floral Giraffe

#566.

768 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:47:25pm

re: #764 OldLineTexan
Heh!

769 Zimriel  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:47:28pm

To me it feels like I'm watching a lot of meltdowns at once. I feel sorry for those caught in the middle of it.

770 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:47:55pm

re: #737 pingjockey

Cool. I hope they get to go to the Smithsonian!

They're spending a half day at the Smithsonian and they're spending quality time at Arlington National Cemetery.

My wife pushed the school last year to add the Holocaust Museum to the agenda...they were so moved that they added to all future trips.
Future generations should never forget what happened.

771 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:48:26pm

re: #765 Dianna

Look back - tfk asked us go guess his age. Use my nic for a guide - I quoted his question.

We could always try dendrochronology, but I do not think TFK would make it for tomorrow's posts.

772 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:49:10pm

re: #694 HoosierHoops

Remember in the movie Dumb and Dumber where Jim Carey asked the girl what the chances are they could get together? She says..well about one in a million..He thinks about it says..
So you are saying there is a chance?
LOL

1. Moving a puck up ice on the end of a stick is much harder than dribbling a ball. Yes it is.
2. A hand check or a body check, which is tougher to defeat?
3. A pass is not throwing a ball with full tactile advantage. It is moving a rubber disk with a stick through fast moving obstacles.
4. Defense of goal is not some guy under a three second rule, but some guy with defensive tools in hand giving you virtually no space in which to shoot.
5. The defensive man is obliged to knock you on your ass, every time you enter his space.

Now this is sport!

/confession, I am a basketball fan first and foremost. hockey, however, is way under-appreciated. The great player are so amazing, but you will have to trust me on this.

773 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:49:20pm

re: #769 Zimriel

This is general advice, nothing more:

When you think you're being generally helpful, you're not.

774 Opilio  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:49:21pm

re: #757 pingjockey

NO2

Do you mean N2O ?

775 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:49:30pm

re: #769 Zimriel

To me it feels like I'm watching a lot of meltdowns at once. I feel sorry for those caught in the middle of it.

Maybe it's my headache- what am I missing?

776 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:49:35pm

re: #770 jorline

That's great. They'll have a blast and the sneaky thing is, they'll be learning and not know it!

777 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:50:29pm

Lakers up by 37 in the 4th quarter.

Glad they woke up.

778 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:50:34pm

re: #708 austin_blue

Fuck off.

779 Silvergirl  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:50:36pm

re: #747 FurryOldGuyJeans

And his dig at Texas was more than a bit rude. I am not from Texas, and only once been to Texas (drove through the panhandle on a road trip from Tennessee to CA at 100+), and found the remark over the top.

I just got here so i don't know what y'all are talking about, but I do know that Pecos Bill said

Mister, you can insult me, and you can insult my friends; as a matter of fact, you can even insult my mother or my horse, but Mister, don't you ever insult the great state Texas.

780 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:50:39pm

re: #770 jorline

They're spending a half day at the Smithsonian and they're spending quality time at Arlington National Cemetery.

My wife pushed the school last year to add the Holocaust Museum to the agenda...they were so moved that they added to all future trips.
Future generations should never forget what happened.

Tell them to go inside the "house" at Arlington. That is Robert E Lee's former residence. And, drive them by the US Marine memorial while you are on that side of the river - that is a cool one too.

They will LOVE Washington, it is a very cool place to visit.

781 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:50:40pm

re: #774 Opilio
Yah. Me no know subscript thingy!

782 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:50:43pm

re: #772 The Shadow Do

Pffft. Badminton. That's a man's sport!

/

783 Bloodnok  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:51:31pm

Good night all!

To recap:

Jorline and OLT- Congrats to your children!
Dianna- Good to have you back, you bring class to any discussion
Sharm- Hope you feel better soon.
OR- Don't drink the water.
Mandy- good luck with the volcano
KT- congrats on the sale.
Hoosier - Glad you found your puppy.

To everyone else, good night.

784 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:51:41pm

re: #778 MandyManners

Fuck off.

And is that your final answer?

785 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:51:54pm

re: #566 taxfreekiller

So, how old is tfk according to lgf's poster thinking?

Don't know about anyone else, but your possible age goes in the same wood pile for me as your possible skin color and your possible gender. I've labeled that wood pile as "Don't Care, Not Important".

What you've got to say (whether I like it or not, agree with it or not) is more significant to me than meaningless demographics such as age, sex, color, etc.

786 summergurl  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:52:03pm

re: #770 jorline

They're spending a half day at the Smithsonian and they're spending quality time at Arlington National Cemetery.

My wife pushed the school last year to add the Holocaust Museum to the agenda...they were so moved that they added to all future trips.
Future generations should never forget what happened.

We didn't think we would have time to see the Holocaust Museum but luckily did. After seeing it I am glad that we did - it would have been a shame to miss it. Rather one skips something else than not experience it. Our girls still talk about it.

787 Salamantis  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:52:06pm

re: #184 Drudge Potato Al

It would be so much easier to comprehend this stuff if we didn't need to use a human brain to grasp it. Since we're wired toward task-based and result-oriented thinking, it's natural for some folks to conclude that the natural world has some type of deliberate guidance. Note that I said "some type" and not "God" as we know it.

The standard, pro forma, insincere ID disclaimer.

The true answer to this is that it's very likely to be a combination of the two positions. I like to think that since we can absolutely observe mutations in a species over time that aspects of the evolutionary theory are absolutely correct. What cannot be proven (or disproven) is that environmental forces are the guiding roulette wheel for this process. What also cannot be proven (or disproven) is that we may be getting a peek inside "the toolbox" as to how species evolve. Any entity that has the capability of altering a species is not going to build one from scratch like assembling a steam engine.

You apparently don't understand the scientific method. Nor do you seem to grasp precisely how much empirical evidence has been accumulated for both random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection in the past 150 years.

Empirical science doesn't do absolute proof; it is a statistically probable process, proceeding by logical induction from a preponderance of empirical evidence to abstracted explanatory principles, and it must always remain open to being modified by subsequent evidence produced in the future (that is how scientific knowledge advances, and how scientific theories evolve). However, the empirical evidence for both random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection is so massive and vast as to render vanishingly small the odds that either of these mechanisms are incorrect.

When the environment changes, either mutations that allow their hosts to survive and reproduce in the new environment occur, or they don't. If such beneficial mutations do occur, they become the new baseline, and the species evolves. If they don't occur, the species goes extinct.

788 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:52:12pm

re: #783 Bloodnok
Sleep well.

789 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:52:35pm

Goodnight. I'm overdue for ged.

790 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:53:05pm

re: #732 Dianna

Ok, I'm lost.

You know I'm a fan of tfk's. So...why is austin blue in trouble, here?

Because he's being mean to tfk, making fun of him.

791 Silvergirl  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:53:06pm

re: #746 BigPapa

What we have here is unchecked aggression.

With a little of what Cool Hand Luke said too.

792 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:53:16pm

A Space Shuttle Before Dawn

Ooooh. New wallpaper. Nice.

(click on image, click again to enlarge)

793 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:53:43pm

re: #779 Silvergirl

I spent a week driving across Texas one day. Nothing but miles and miles of miles and miles. (And, lots of Texans, too....nothing bad about that)

794 funky chicken  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:53:44pm

re: #42 calcajun

I see stupid people.

Yes-stupid. People who are willfully blind to the damage they are doing to their party and ultimately to their Country.

yep

795 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:54:16pm

re: #784 Walter L. Newton

And is that your final answer?

Phone a friend? Have them tell him off too?

796 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:55:21pm

re: #793 Desert Dog
Best steak I ever had was in a little hotel diner in Texas.

797 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:55:26pm

re: #790 MandyManners

Because he's being mean to tfk, making fun of him.

I didn't get that.

What's more, from the past, more than a few people have made fun of tfk, and he's more than survived it.

798 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:55:36pm

re: #767 jaunte

Thank you, I missed that.

799 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:56:47pm

re: #797 Dianna

I didn't get that.

What's more, from the past, more than a few people have made fun of tfk, and he's more than survived it.

Is Austin_blue your sock puppet? :)

800 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:56:49pm

re: #792 Racer X

A Space Shuttle Before Dawn

Ooooh. New wallpaper. Nice.

(click on image, click again to enlarge)

Oooh, nice!

Now, crop it to fit 1280 x 768, save as .bmp, and shove it in my $WinDir. Next desktop wallpaper change, this picture gets "pasted".

801 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:56:50pm

Good night folks!

802 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:56:58pm

re: #778 MandyManners

Fuck off.

I've got (most reluctantly) to disagree with you.

803 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:57:26pm

re: #798 Floral Giraffe

You're welcome.

804 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:57:44pm

re: #799 Walter L. Newton
Damnit walter!

805 Opilio  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:57:44pm

re: #781 pingjockey

Yah. Me no know subscript thingy!

Yeahbut...

N2O's the stuff that makes you giddy
NO2 will keeeeel you....

/liked chemistry in school

806 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:58:45pm

re: #805 Opilio

Yeahbut...

N2O's the stuff that makes you giddy
NO2 will keeeeel you....

/liked chemistry in school

Did that liking of Chemistry translate to more Au?

807 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:59:07pm

re: #798 Floral Giraffe

Thank you, I missed that.

I did too. I still found the answer creepy.

So- how about that Darwin guy?

808 pingjockey  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:59:28pm

Ok, really off to bed now. Before I say something I WILL regret in the morning. Cooler head and all that.

809 Animal  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:59:30pm

re: #706 Walter L. Newton

Correct. Mike could almost be a poster boy for some of the straight thinking conservative ideas that Charles and others espouse here. He's been on KOA for over 20 years and is very connected in the radio business.

I was in studio with him for two hours in November 2001. Chatted with him on a variety of topics during commercial breaks. It was one of the greatest experiences I've had to date.

Mike is probably one of the best-informed people I've ever met. He has a tremendous breadth of knowledge, and is a pretty good guy in person, too. It was great fun being on his show.

810 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 9:59:34pm

re: #729 Walter L. Newton

Hey jerk. Click on my name and give me a phone call. I'd like to tell you to your face that you are a fucking ass wipe of the highest order.

Why? Was the comment coherent? Understand, my friend, that I am the production manager for a major classical music festival. I do this using my vacation time. We have much more in common on the arts side of the coin than is obvious on the political side. The in-kind donations that my wife and I make every year for our fesitval is huge. ($3500/year), Oh, we are doing "The Tragedy of Carmen" this year and I'ill be playing Lillas Pasita.

811 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:00:02pm

re: #780 Desert Dog

Tell them to go inside the "house" at Arlington. That is Robert E Lee's former residence. And, drive them by the US Marine memorial while you are on that side of the river - that is a cool one too.

They will LOVE Washington, it is a very cool place to visit.

Thanks for the info...I'll pass it along. My wife is going with the group while I hold down the home front and restaurant. My uncle is buried at Arlington, they are visiting his grave and each child will leave a rose for him.

812 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:00:11pm

This one is cool too.

813 Silvergirl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:00:18pm

re: #808 pingjockey

Ok, really off to bed now. Before I say something I WILL regret in the morning. Cooler head and all that.

Rest your head on a Chillow. There is such a thing, honest! I saw it in the drugstore.

814 MandyManners  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:00:31pm

Good night, Lizards!

815 summergurl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:01:45pm

re: #810 austin_blue

Why? Was the comment coherent? Understand, my friend, that I am the production manager for a major classical music festival. I do this using my vacation time. We have much more in common on the arts side of the coin than is obvious on the political side. The in-kind donations that my wife and I make every year for our fesitval is huge. ($3500/year), Oh, we are doing "The Tragedy of Carmen" this year and I'ill be playing Lillas Pasita.

Oh now you've done it.

816 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:01:47pm

re: #782 OldLineTexan

Pffft. Badminton. That's a man's sport!

/

Of course you're right. But then there is wiffle ball!

817 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:01:53pm

re: #807 Sharmuta

I did too. I still found the answer creepy.

So- how about that Darwin guy?

There's a related question over here at Amazon:
Does anyone actually understand Intelligent Design?

818 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:02:02pm

re: #809 Animal

I was in studio with him for two hours in November 2001. Chatted with him on a variety of topics during commercial breaks. It was one of the greatest experiences I've had to date.

Mike is probably one of the best-informed people I've ever met. He has a tremendous breadth of knowledge, and is a pretty good guy in person, too. It was great fun being on his show.

I used to listen to him too! He is still on? Good for him!

819 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:02:08pm

re: #814 MandyManners

Good night, Lizards!

Weet dreams, Mandy.

Dream of that hunk down the street. ;)

820 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:02:20pm

re: #799 Walter L. Newton

Is Austin_blue your sock puppet? :)

Nope. Mine's "Dianna's Hart". I've used it precisely once (maybe twice) that I'm aware of.

I'm clueless about this. The fact is that tfk has invited speculation. And, tfk has been the subject of both mockery and hostility and incomprehension than I think those of you who weren't here when he joined up remember.

But I do.

I, personally, am fond of tfk. I had to argue with a lot of folks here for him. So I'm willing to accept a certain amount of give-and-take about him, and (forgive me, all who disagree) so is he.

821 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:02:47pm

re: #809 Animal

I was in studio with him for two hours in November 2001. Chatted with him on a variety of topics during commercial breaks. It was one of the greatest experiences I've had to date.

Mike is probably one of the best-informed people I've ever met. He has a tremendous breadth of knowledge, and is a pretty good guy in person, too. It was great fun being on his show.

Oops. Reading your web site link, have we run into each other. You must be right in my area.

822 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:03:20pm

re: #807 Sharmuta

Yes, the answer was creepy. There's a lot on the intertubes that is creepy. The real Darwin was awesome. Have Origin of the species on the reading stack.

823 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:03:31pm

re: #815 summergurl

Oh now you've done it.

Some people just can't resist flinging poo.

824 Opilio  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:04:19pm

re: #806 Desert Dog

Did that liking of Chemistry translate to more Au?

Changed my major from Chem to Comp Sci after a couple of semesters. I'm pretty sure that translated into Au++.

825 sngnsgt  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:04:21pm

re: #772 The Shadow Do

Amen, drop the puck.

826 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:04:21pm

re: #810 austin_blue

Why? Was the comment coherent? Understand, my friend, that I am the production manager for a major classical music festival. I do this using my vacation time. We have much more in common on the arts side of the coin than is obvious on the political side. The in-kind donations that my wife and I make every year for our fesitval is huge. ($3500/year), Oh, we are doing "The Tragedy of Carmen" this year and I'ill be playing Lillas Pasita.

WOW, I'm impressed.
//

827 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:04:21pm

re: #817 jaunte

There's a related question over here at Amazon:
Does anyone actually understand Intelligent Design?

That first comment was pretty good.

828 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:05:39pm

re: #823 FurryOldGuyJeans

Austin Blue doesn't deserve this!

829 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:05:47pm

re: #827 Sharmuta

Whoever J. Vanek is, they put their finger right on the weakness of ID as a theory. Not useful.

830 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:05:48pm

Need your daily Mayan calendar 2012 apocolyptogasm?

Brought to you by this guy.

But he says we can fix it with money.

Whew.

Good night, and good luck.

831 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:06:18pm

Good night all...see you in the morning.

832 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:06:21pm

re: #824 Opilio

Changed my major from Chem to Comp Sci after a couple of semesters. I'm pretty sure that translated into Au++.

Well, my degree is a BA in History which explains why I am a business owner, rather than historian. (that would translate to a deficiency of Au)

833 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:06:27pm

re: #810 austin_blue

Why? Was the comment coherent? Understand, my friend, that I am the production manager for a major classical music festival. I do this using my vacation time. We have much more in common on the arts side of the coin than is obvious on the political side. The in-kind donations that my wife and I make every year for our fesitval is huge. ($3500/year), Oh, we are doing "The Tragedy of Carmen" this year and I'ill be playing Lillas Pasita.

Well, big whoop. I couldn't give two shits if you were Edward Albee's long lost love child. What the hell does your profession have to do with the remarks that you made.

You still haven't answered my question. You said...

"My best guess, based on his previous posts, is that TFK was an enlisted trooper in the Army in 1971/1972. One of the last draftees. He was 18/19 years old. That makes him 57/58 years old. Since then, he has embraced the Republic of Texas as his raison d'etre. Pity."

What the fuck is up with the "pity" remark? You're whole comment is snide and smart-assed and out of left field. Was the comment coherent? No.

And I am not your friend.

834 summergurl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:06:40pm

re: #828 Dianna

Austin Blue doesn't deserve this!

He poked the bear.

835 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:06:55pm

re: #787 Salamantis

When the environment changes, either mutations that allow their hosts to survive and reproduce in the new environment occur, or they don't. If such beneficial mutations do occur, they become the new baseline, and the species evolves. If they don't occur, the species goes extinct.

I think that is a bit too narrow an explanation. If the species doesn't start randomly mutating until after the environment changes it will be too late. Seems more likely to me that an environment change favors some of the existing mutations over the others.

836 jaunte  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:07:23pm

Oops, stayed up too late again. Good night all.
Keep typing what you mean to say.

837 Desert Dog  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:07:28pm

Good night all. The fetching Mrs. Desert Dog is fetching me!

838 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:07:41pm

re: #828 Dianna

Austin Blue doesn't deserve this!

So you think, I disagree.

839 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:08:23pm

re: #810 austin_blue

Why? Was the comment coherent? Understand, my friend, that I am the production manager for a major classical music festival. I do this using my vacation time. We have much more in common on the arts side of the coin than is obvious on the political side. The in-kind donations that my wife and I make every year for our fesitval is huge. ($3500/year), Oh, we are doing "The Tragedy of Carmen" this year and I'ill be playing Lillas Pasita.

At the PROFESSIONAL theatre I work at, people don't PAY for roles in shows.

840 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:09:19pm

re: #754 Dianna

I'm so confused here, I don't know where to start.

Is this because I've been gone for a couple weeks?

We're cool. TFK has been bagging me m because I don't toe his line. You are aces.

841 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:10:07pm

re: #840 austin_blue

We're cool. TFK has been bagging me m because I don't toe his line. You are aces.

Link to a comment from TFK that is "bagging" you?

842 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:10:54pm

*Headthump*

843 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:11:51pm

re: #834 summergurl

He poked the bear.

Um.

Let's back up, here.

TFK invited speculation.

Aside from the word "pity" (which I agree should probably have been dispensed with), there is nothing - bloody well nothing! - in the comment that is out of line.

I wish to point out that I've been here even longer than tfk. I remember the days when tfk was then one regarded with hostility.

Can we back off, here?

844 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:12:54pm

re: #840 austin_blue

We're cool. TFK has been bagging me m because I don't toe his line. You are aces.

Tfk bags everyone. It's expected. I've taken my lumps from him, and I don't mind.

What's going on here I'm not sure.

845 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:13:16pm

What about them Lakers, huh?

846 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:13:46pm

re: #838 FurryOldGuyJeans

So you think, I disagree.

OK.

What's happened in the two weeks I've been gone?

847 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:15:12pm

re: #669 OldLineTexan

Dey iz all smarter than u frum 16 2 24!

4 teens and tweens here--tell me about it.

848 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:15:23pm

re: #828 Dianna

Austin Blue doesn't deserve this!

There should be a corollary to Goodwin's Law about the F-bomb.

849 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:15:29pm

re: #845 Racer X

What about them Lakers, huh?

37 points!?

I saw (at my mom's - she watches basketball) the Rockets take them by approximately 10 points on Sunday. I was wondering what would happen. That's impressive.

850 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:15:55pm

re: #810 austin_blue

Why? Was the comment coherent? Understand, my friend, that I am the production manager for a major classical music festival. I do this using my vacation time. We have much more in common on the arts side of the coin than is obvious on the political side. The in-kind donations that my wife and I make every year for our fesitval is huge. ($3500/year), Oh, we are doing "The Tragedy of Carmen" this year and I'ill be playing Lillas Pasita.

I think your real strength is writing.
/

851 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:16:14pm

re: #847 calcajun

4 teens and tweens here--tell me about it.

Egads, the level of smugness and "parents sure are dumb" must be running high! ;)

852 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:16:21pm

re: #845 Racer X

What about them Lakers, huh?

Thas more like it.

853 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:17:34pm

re: #839 Walter L. Newton

Oh, dear.

854 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:17:47pm

re: #851 FurryOldGuyJeans


That's why I have my "man cave"!

855 wee fury  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:17:59pm

President Obama has promised us that his administration will be transparent. In that flavor of transparency, I feel it is my duty to

856 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:18:09pm

re: #835 Mich-again

I think that is a bit too narrow an explanation. If the species doesn't start randomly mutating until after the environment changes it will be too late. Seems more likely to me that an environment change favors some of the existing mutations over the others.

You're right, there are "neutral mutations" that mean little or nothing during long periods of continuity, that just suddenly turn out important when asteroid hits or the pandemic blows in.

857 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:18:11pm

re: #846 Dianna

Dianna, does it make you wonder why it won't answer the "pity" comment? Read the whole thing again. Very tacky. Informed Lizards want to know.

858 summergurl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:18:21pm

re: #843 Dianna

Um.

Let's back up, here.

TFK invited speculation.

Aside from the word "pity" (which I agree should probably have been dispensed with), there is nothing - bloody well nothing! - in the comment that is out of line.

I wish to point out that I've been here even longer than tfk. I remember the days when tfk was then one regarded with hostility.

Can we back off, here?


I was referring to his comment to Wayne not TFK.

And when you say "my friend" it sounds condescending. Discussing your in kind donations, which you determine the value thereof, it sounds like a braggart.

859 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:18:44pm

re: #845 Racer X

What about them Lakers, huh?

In all due conscience I must state, here and now, and for the record, I am not now and never have been an athletic supporter.

860 jorline  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:18:48pm

re: #846 Dianna

OK.

What's happened in the two weeks I've been gone?

The deficit has grown by 3.4 trillion.

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up...night all!

861 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:19:24pm

re: #859 FurryOldGuyJeans

In all due conscience I must state, here and now, and for the record, I am not now and never have been an athletic supporter.

You have to have a lot of balls to admit that.

862 wee fury  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:19:47pm

re: #845 Racer X

What about them Lakers, huh?

They should never have left Minnesota.

863 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:20:31pm

re: #848 Mich-again

Will someone - anyone - explain why austin blue is in everyone's bad books for a remark that's barely out of line?

You and I have gone at it a time or two, without being enemies. I will trust you, on this one. Please explain it to me?

864 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:21:23pm

re: #861 Walter L. Newton

You have to have a lot of balls to admit that.

At least I do not, by rote, cover for a dick as do some others.

865 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:21:34pm

re: #843 Dianna

Um.

Let's back up, here.

TFK invited speculation.

Aside from the word "pity" (which I agree should probably have been dispensed with), there is nothing - bloody well nothing! - in the comment that is out of line.

I wish to point out that I've been here even longer than tfk. I remember the days when tfk was then one regarded with hostility.

Can we back off, here?

My best guess: Not likely, but I admire your adamance. And sense of fairness.

I remember TFK's appearance here, too. Thought he was a braying ass then, still do. But one gets used to pointless car alarms eventually. Occasionally I poke him with a stick. He pokes back. It's all part of the, um, climate. He's pumping out CO2 like the rest of us.

Time for Occam's Sleeping Pill. For me, at least.

866 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:22:47pm

re: #610 taxfreekiller

my secret weapon was got the EE degree in three years, used summer school and took 21 hours several times...

Mine took me 6, but I worked summers. 21 hours? Damn. 15 hours kicked my ass.

867 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:23:07pm

re: #858 summergurl

I was referring to his comment to Wayne not TFK.

And when you say "my friend" it sounds condescending. Discussing your in kind donations, which you determine the value thereof, it sounds like a braggart.

OK, fine. But I missed that, because I'm trying to catch up with this one controversy. And I just don't see that the way you do. He's talking about being in a freakin' show. What's that got to do with in-kind donations? What?

This is over-complicating a situation - granted, I'm just scrambling to catch up - that doesn't require it.

868 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:23:45pm

re: #839 Walter L. Newton

At the PROFESSIONAL theatre I work at..

hmm.

869 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:23:59pm

re: #865 Cato the Elder

Good night, Cato the Elder.

Thanks.

I was wondering if I'd lost my mind.

870 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:24:23pm

re: #863 Dianna

Will someone - anyone - explain why austin blue is in everyone's bad books for a remark that's barely out of line?

You and I have gone at it a time or two, without being enemies. I will trust you, on this one. Please explain it to me?

As someone who recently joined and has never met you, Austin_Blue got dogpiled by a few posters for arguing with TFK. Walter joined in when Austin Blue made the pity remark, and refused to explain it as anything except condescendingly. Other posters have joined in or switched their rationale on why they joined in varyingly as the argument continued.

871 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:25:20pm

re: #857 Walter L. Newton

Dianna, does it make you wonder why it won't answer the "pity" comment? Read the whole thing again. Very tacky. Informed Lizards want to know.

I haven't a clue. Perhaps he lives in Texas and has an opinion?

872 pygmalienation  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:25:37pm

TFK?, TFK?

I come to LGF for the music...
And stay for the TFK

Viva, TFK!

873 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:26:47pm
Soda Tax Weighed to Pay for Health Care

Senate leaders are considering new federal taxes on soda and other sugary drinks to help pay for an overhaul of the nation's health-care system.

The taxes would pay for only a fraction of the cost to expand health-insurance coverage to all Americans and would face strong opposition from the beverage industry. They also could spark a backlash from consumers who would have to pay several cents more for a soft drink.

Proponents of the tax cite research showing that consuming sugar-sweetened drinks can lead to obesity, diabetes and other ailments.

Actually, sitting on your ass and drinking fifteen Cokes a day might be the reason.

They say the tax would lower consumption, reduce health problems and save medical costs. At least a dozen states already have some type of taxes on sugary beverages, said Michael Jacobson, executive director of the Center for Science in the Public Interest.

The money quote:

"Soda is clearly one of the most harmful products in the food supply, and it's something government should discourage the consumption of," Mr. Jacobson said.

Yeah. Alcohol, Tobacco, energy drinks, and weight loss supplements are totally harmless.

Don't think for one second this is not about TAXES, and punishing companies that are doing well.

874 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:27:05pm

re: #864 FurryOldGuyJeans

At least I do not, by rote, cover for a dick as do some others.

So speaks a pair of pants. :)

875 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:28:13pm

re: #873 Racer X

Taxes and taking away people's freedoms.

876 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:29:00pm

re: #874 BlueCanuck

So speaks a pair of pants. :)

SHHHHH! You'll blow my cover! ;)

877 Erik The Red  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:29:32pm

re: #874 BlueCanuck

So speaks a pair of pants. :)

Morning/Afternoon/Evening Lizards.

Hey Blue:)

878 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:30:13pm

re: #876 FurryOldGuyJeans

SHHHHH! You'll blow my cover! ;)

Too late. Speaking of which.......

/blindly gropes for his sunglasses....

879 Salamantis  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:30:18pm

re: #448 bobbuck

Actually, yes. We ignore it. We stop wasting time arguing about what happened thousands of years ago. If we give 20 people the full scoop on evolution that's about 18 more than we need. If we start terraforming planets maybe we should up it to 35. In the mean time it would sure be great if a high school graduate could read a freaking loan or mortgage contract much less calculate payments and interest so he could make an intelligent consumer decision instead of screwing up and making us bail him out. All the Amish believe in the literal 7 day creation. Even though they're wrong they could buy anyone on this board with the change in their pocket. Move on. Prioritize.

Yeah, prioritize. Make national security a priority, and ensure that we have competent bioscientists that can rapidly respond to a bioweapons terror attack. And make our national economy a priority, andf ensure that we have competent bioscientists to domestically discover, create and innovate, so that all the bioscience products and services aren't produced and bought from beyond our borders.

880 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:30:28pm

re: #863 Dianna

Will someone - anyone - explain why austin blue is in everyone's bad books for a remark that's barely out of line?

You and I have gone at it a time or two, without being enemies. I will trust you, on this one. Please explain it to me?

I was watching the hockey game so I don't know what the heck preceded all this. But we've seen it happen a hundred times.

881 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:30:40pm

re: #877 Erik The Red

Afternoon/evening Erik. Just unwinding after work here.

882 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:30:46pm

re: #718 Dark_Falcon

What he did was take your post, turn it around on you, turn it again sideways and then jam it up your ass. Clear enough for you?

Cool. Translate it.

Doh! Not so easy is it!
TFK's schtick is .....obscure...

883 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:31:00pm

re: #875 FurryOldGuyJeans

Taxes and taking away people's freedoms.

Yep. At least some people see right through it:

"Taxes are not going to teach our children how to have a healthy lifestyle," said Susan Neely, president of the American Beverage Association. Instead, the association says it's backing programs that limit sugary beverage consumption in schools.

Some recent state proposals along the same lines have met stiff opposition. New York Gov. David Paterson recently agreed to drop a proposal for an 18% tax on sugary drinks after facing an outcry from the beverage industry and New Yorkers.

884 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:31:11pm

re: #873 Racer X

In all fairness, some studies have shown how soda-pop can be more detrimental to your health than the other substances you've listed. Take this report, for instance.

885 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:31:27pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

There's a difference between being part pf a tough room and being a hater.

It is kind of a tough crowd in here.

886 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:31:56pm

re: #870 Altermite

As someone who recently joined and has never met you, Austin_Blue got dogpiled by a few posters for arguing with TFK. Walter joined in when Austin Blue made the pity remark, and refused to explain it as anything except condescendingly. Other posters have joined in or switched their rationale on why they joined in varyingly as the argument continued.

Ta, much.

Essentially, Austin Blue should either explain or apologize. But it's much too late to explain (and how many of us would understand the intricacies of Texas politics who aren't Texan?), or just say it's irrelevant and apologize. But that won't work at this point, either, so why don't we drop it?

887 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:32:11pm

re: #882 austin_blue

Cool. Translate it.

Doh! Not so easy is it!
TFK's schtick is .....obscure...

tfk is an original. Why don't we try changing the subject?

888 wee fury  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:32:56pm

re: #872 pygmalienation

TFK?, TFK?

I come to LGF for the music...
And stay for the TFK

Viva, TFK!

Theme song for tonight's late thread :-)

889 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:33:33pm

re: #884 Slumbering Behemoth

In all fairness, some studies have shown how soda-pop can be more detrimental to your health than the other substances you've listed. Take this report, for instance.

Hahahahahaha!

You got me!

890 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:34:41pm

re: #859 FurryOldGuyJeans

In all due conscience I must state, here and now, and for the record, I am not now and never have been an athletic supporter.

You're a "cup half empty" kind of guy, eh?

891 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:36:59pm

re: #887 Sharmuta

tfk is an original. Why don't we try changing the subject?

K.

Anyone here fence?

892 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:37:01pm

re: #867 Dianna

My best guess, based on his previous posts, is that TFK was an enlisted trooper in the Army in 1971/1972. One of the last draftees. He was 18/19 years old. That makes him 57/58 years old. Since then, he has embraced the Republic of Texas as his raison d'etre. Pity.

- Austin Blue

Make of that what you will.

893 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:37:21pm

Walking dogs.

You have 15 minutes to yell at me without response!

894 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:37:29pm

There was a pretty cool documentary on TFK on PBS recently. It explains a lot.

Watch your step.

895 calcajun  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:37:51pm

re: #891 Altermite

K.

Anyone here fence?

Depends on what kind of merchandise you want to move. I know a guy who might help./

896 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:38:33pm

re: #889 Racer X

Payback. The ball is in your court again, Racer X. Trick me with something more absurd.

897 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:38:43pm

re: #891 Altermite

K.

Anyone here fence?

I'm on the fence, but off the wagon.

898 pygmalienation  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:38:46pm

re: #888 wee fury

Thanks, wee fury. I think We need that.
Here's one from a little Texas band...Brave Combo

899 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:41:46pm

re: #890 calcajun

You're a "cup half empty" kind of guy, eh?

Full cups are just not my "bag".

900 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:42:33pm

re: #885 Liberal Classic

It is kind of a tough crowd in here.

I don't think of any posters here as being "tough". Tough people don't hide behind nicknames.

901 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:42:35pm

re: #896 Slumbering Behemoth

Payback. The ball is in your court again, Racer X. Trick me with something more absurd.

Heh.

When you least expect it my friend.

902 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:43:47pm

re: #900 Mich-again

I don't think of any posters here as being "tough". Tough people don't hide behind nicknames.

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/nicknames.htm

903 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:44:16pm

re: #900 Mich-again

I don't think of any posters here as being "tough". Tough people don't hide behind nicknames.

I don't hide behind any screen name or avatar. It's all real, all the way down.

904 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:44:29pm

re: #891 Altermite

K.

Anyone here fence?

I used to, when I was in college. Being a southpaw really messed up my opponents.

905 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:45:07pm

re: #901 Racer X

Excellent! I look forward to it. Make it a good one, Lizard.

906 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:46:27pm

re: #891 Altermite

Used to do a little foil, never very good at it, but sometimes scare the gringos by putting on the outfit.

907 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:46:40pm

re: #903 Walter L. Newton

I don't hide behind any screen name or avatar. It's all real, all the way down.

My nic has a history, but the avatar is the "real deal".

/ anyone need an air sickness bag?

908 Silvergirl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:48:27pm

Speaking of those two weeks away, Dianna, the place lacked a certain classiness, so I'm afraid you'll have to cut it shorter in future. No more time off for good behavior.

909 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:48:35pm

re: #906 itellu3times

Used to do a little foil, never very good at it, but sometimes scare the gringos by putting on the outfit.

You want to look like a real incompetent? Duel a southpaw.

910 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:48:53pm

re: #892 The Shadow Do

- Austin Blue

Make of that what you will.

I saw that. What's your point?

911 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:48:59pm

re: #905 Slumbering Behemoth

Excellent! I look forward to it. Make it a good one, Lizard.

Seeing as you mentioned an interest in health and fitness, you may be interested in this.

ROFLMAO!

912 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:49:06pm

re: #902 Altermite

I originally typed in an exclusion to that blanket statement I made for boxers, but then I changed my mind because boxers don't exclude their real name, they just add to it with a nickname as in "Sugar" Ray Leonard, Tommy "Hit Man" Hearns, Eric "Butterbean" Esch...

Internet nicknames are more akin to professional wrestling than boxing.

913 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:49:19pm

re: #903 Walter L. Newton

I don't hide behind any screen name or avatar. It's all real, all the way down.

Sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made.

/one of my favorite pearls of wisdom

914 pygmalienation  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:50:18pm

re: #903 Walter L. Newton

I can still remember when you first came to LGF and folks were trying to convince you that you should'nt use your real name.

/Kinda miss your early signature on your posts...

915 Sharmuta  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:51:11pm

Pope in Jerusalem:

One of the rabbis, Yona Metzger, welcomed the interfaith efforts. "We must continue on this path and teach leaders of the other faiths that not by terror will they achieve their aims," he said.

I like this Pope.

916 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:52:19pm

re: #913 itellu3times

Sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made.

/one of my favorite pearls of wisdom

And I don't try to fake that. Lizards here knows what yanks my crank, they know that I will apologize when I am wrong, and I give credit where credit is due. And most of all, Lizards know I can be really nasty at times, founded or unfounded, but that's me.

917 Silvergirl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:52:42pm

re: #907 FurryOldGuyJeans

My nic has a history, but the avatar is the "real deal".

/ anyone need an air sickness bag?

Oh stop. You look like my favorite PE teacher, and there's nothing to induce illness there.

918 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:53:11pm

re: #886 Dianna

Ta, much.

Essentially, Austin Blue should either explain or apologize. But it's much too late to explain (and how many of us would understand the intricacies of Texas politics who aren't Texan?), or just say it's irrelevant and apologize. But that won't work at this point, either, so why don't we drop it?

re: #865 Cato the Elder

My best guess: Not likely, but I admire your adamance. And sense of fairness.

I remember TFK's appearance here, too. Thought he was a braying ass then, still do. But one gets used to pointless car alarms eventually. Occasionally I poke him with a stick. He pokes back. It's all part of the, um, climate. He's pumping out CO2 like the rest of us.

Time for Occam's Sleeping Pill. For me, at least.

Thank you. Exactly correct.

919 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:55:33pm

re: #900 Mich-again

I'm hiding? Really?

Yeah. Right.

920 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:55:39pm

re: #911 Racer X

DUDE! WTF! Why would you do that to me, I thought we were friends?

//so bizarre, that's gettin' mass-mailed

921 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:55:49pm

Why is the Republican Party committing suicide?

Truth is, the kooks are not interested in wresting power from the media-lib cabal, they are interested in making money from kookery. They will be perfectly happy for the GOP to become permanently marginalized, so long as it still exists as a handy framework for marketing their kookery.

This country is in real danger of becoming a one party state.

922 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:56:16pm

re: #914 pygmalienation

I can still remember when you first came to LGF and folks were trying to convince you that you should'nt use your real name.

/Kinda miss your early signature on your posts...

It's not hard to find out who a lot of Lizards are, in real life. They leave all kinds of clues in their comments.

I just avoid all the hassles, and it enables me to be more honest with my posts.

Just like Austin_blue. I already know who he is, in real life. He left too much info tonight.

And I am still looking for an explanation of his "pity" remark. I went up thread, and noticed that he has been jumping on TFK all evening, not just in the last hour and a half.

People have all the right in the world to their opinion and I have all the right in the world to ask for an explanation.

And they have the right to tell me "no" and shut the fuck up.

That's life.

923 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:56:59pm

re: #908 Silvergirl

Speaking of those two weeks away, Dianna, the place lacked a certain classiness, so I'm afraid you'll have to cut it shorter in future. No more time off for good behavior.

In my dreams, perhaps. I've never noticed that anyone toned it down for me.

Thanks, anyway.

924 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:57:06pm

re: #916 Walter L. Newton

And I don't try to fake that. Lizards here knows what yanks my crank, they know that I will apologize when I am wrong, and I give credit where credit is due. And most of all, Lizards know I can be really nasty at times, founded or unfounded, but that's me.

So you are saying that you are a cranky old fart?

/kidding.

//ducks and covers just in case. :)

925 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:58:18pm

re: #924 BlueCanuck

So you are saying that you are a cranky old fart?

/kidding.

//ducks and covers just in case. :)

Yep. :)

926 Silvergirl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:58:41pm

re: #921 Shiplord Kirel

Why is the Republican Party committing suicide?

Truth is, the kooks are not interested in wresting power from the media-lib cabal, they are interested in making money from kookery. They will be perfectly happy for the GOP to become permanently marginalized, so long as it still exists as a handy framework for marketing their kookery.

This country is in real danger of becoming a one party state.

I'm beginning to believe in the truthfulness of that. Cable shows, book deals, whatever grabs attention and fills the bank account.

Someone say something fun. I can go to bed on that thought.

927 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:58:41pm

re: #924 BlueCanuck

So you are saying that you are a cranky old fart?

/kidding.

//ducks and covers just in case. :)

*AHEM!* I'm the Cranky Old Coot around here, an' don' you fuggetit! ;)

928 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:59:23pm

re: #910 Dianna

I saw that. What's your point?

That Austin Blue has a whole lot of projection in him coupled with a good deal of animosity for both TFK and Texas. No big deal aside from my personal opinion of what I read as a narrow minded a-hole spouting off.

929 Silvergirl  Tue, May 12, 2009 10:59:59pm

re: #926 Silvergirl

I'm beginning to believe in the truthfulness of that. Cable shows, book deals, whatever grabs attention and fills the bank account.

Someone say something fun. I can go to bed on that thought.

Make that can't.

930 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:00:33pm

re: #927 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sometimes it's fun acting your shoe size though. :)

931 Mich-again  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:00:47pm

re: #919 Dianna

I'm hiding? Really?

Yeah. Right.

No I never said that. What I said was no one gets the "tough" label because of what they posted anonymously.

932 pygmalienation  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:01:18pm

re: #922 Walter L. Newton

Yes, I suppose if someone really wanted to piece together the puzzle from comment history, they could. Fortunately for me, I'm such a lightweight here, I wouldn't be worried about someone being that obsessed. lol

From your posts, though, you always seem to be an honest broker-- kudos for that.

933 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:01:35pm

re: #922 Walter L. Newton

Walter, a lot of folks jump tfk. He (forgive me, tfk) invites it. I think he invites it. Consider his (two weeks ago, which is current for me) campaign against Killgore Trout.

Please back off. I think you've gone too far.

934 itellu3times  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:01:56pm

re: #916 Walter L. Newton

... and all the men and women merely players.

935 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:02:57pm

re: #929 Silvergirl

Make that can't.

Remember, the better you are at loving yourself, enjoying you own company, comfortable with your faith, your loves, and even your dislikes, the better a person you will be for the rest of the world.

936 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:05:32pm

re: #926 Silvergirl

I'm beginning to believe in the truthfulness of that. Cable shows, book deals, whatever grabs attention and fills the bank account.

Someone say something fun. I can go to bed on that thought.

Note also that the far right sites are awash with ads for "health supplements" and the like. Hell, Pat Robertson has a whole line of such products.
The young earth oriented fairy tale textbook Earth Science for Christian Schools is a top money maker for Bob Jones University but there is not a single PhD geologist on the faculty at BJU. The book's apologists will point out that the BJU press is an entirely separate legal entity but if that is significant, why use the school's name?

937 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:05:56pm

re: #928 The Shadow Do

That Austin Blue has a whole lot of projection in him coupled with a good deal of animosity for both TFK and Texas. No big deal aside from my personal opinion of what I read as a narrow minded a-hole spouting off.

Let me - once again - make the very strong point that 1) we all have "profiles" of each other; and AB's profile (guess about) tfk has no more consequence than mine. As for his/ her hostility to tfk, well, I addressed that earlier, and what it amounts to is that there is (currently) nothing AB could say that would neutralize the hostility ginned up. Frankly, it's irrelevant. AB was remarking on Texas politics. This blog is not about Texas politics, and the intricacies thereof would make no sense to (say, just because I'm one) a Californian.

So, let's drop it. This has gotten far out of hand!

938 SteveRogers  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:06:59pm

re: #742 Dianna

Excuse me?

Tfk invited speculation, didn't he? Austin blue just tried to run a correlation, so far as I could see. I'm a little confused, here?

Austin Blue has been trying to get TFK's goat all night (I read all the comments). He started to back off and then went back on the sniping. Not sure what AB's goal is, but he comes off as an ass.

939 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:10:44pm

re: #922 Walter L. Newton

It's not hard to find out who a lot of Lizards are, in real life. They leave all kinds of clues in their comments.

I just avoid all the hassles, and it enables me to be more honest with my posts.

Just like Austin_blue. I already know who he is, in real life. He left too much info tonight.

And I am still looking for an explanation of his "pity" remark. I went up thread, and noticed that he has been jumping on TFK all evening, not just in the last hour and a half.

People have all the right in the world to their opinion and I have all the right in the world to ask for an explanation.

And they have the right to tell me "no" and shut the fuck up.

That's life.


I have been watching TFK for years. He's interesting on many levels. I'm probably a bit more complex than you imagine. You should click the nic. If you want to get more in depth, you should ask me for my e-mail. I am strongly associated with with The Rude Mechs here in Austin.

940 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:12:05pm

re: #939 austin_blue

I have been watching TFK for years. He's interesting on many levels. I'm probably a bit more complex than you imagine. You should click the nic. If you want to get more in depth, you should ask me for my e-mail. I am strongly associated with with The Rude Mechs here in Austin.

I don't care Holton, why don't you answer my "pity" question?

941 sngnsgt  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:12:13pm

re: #873 Racer X

Upding for that Racer X, it doesn't have anything to do with health reasons, it's all about the tax money.

942 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:13:11pm

re: #938 SteveRogers

Austin Blue has been trying to get TFK's goat all night (I read all the comments). He started to back off and then went back on the sniping. Not sure what AB's goal is, but he comes off as an ass.

There was a time when everyone "respectable" upon this blog thought TFK was trying to get everyone's goat.

And, let's be absolutely honest here, TFK never hesitates to go after other posters.

So take it as the usual give-and-take, and accept that no one's immune.

Or am I - or maybe Killgore Trout, Charles himself, Occasional Reader, Writer Mom, Kragar, NY Nana and maybe a few others - the only ones who remember that?

I love TFK. I admire TFK. He may or may not feel nicely towards me, given the day. It doesn't matter. What matters is that TFK invited speculation. AB (austin blue) responded - with Texas politics appended, which we may or may not approve of, but it doesn't matter for this blog.

So get grip on your "resentment" and remember that disagreement isn't cause for a pile-on!

943 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:14:12pm

re: #939 austin_blue

No one can click the nic and get any more than the profile - you haven't blued it.

944 Racer X  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:15:54pm

re: #920 Slumbering Behemoth

DUDE! WTF! Why would you do that to me, I thought we were friends?

//so bizarre, that's gettin' mass-mailed

Sorry man. I couldn't resist with that one. I'm still trying to figure out how they got those poodles into the leotards.

945 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:16:24pm

re: #942 Dianna

... - with Texas politics appended, which we may or may not approve of, but it doesn't matter for this blog...

What's with this stating over and over about Texas politics. This has nothing to do with politics. AB has been ragging on TFK all evening, trying to bait him and he got called on it.

And AB has not even attempted to defend or explain his "pity" remark, which had NOTHING to do with politics.

946 Salamantis  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:17:25pm

re: #835 Mich-again

I think that is a bit too narrow an explanation. If the species doesn't start randomly mutating until after the environment changes it will be too late. Seems more likely to me that an environment change favors some of the existing mutations over the others.

Genetic mutations are ongoing. I never said that they only began because of environmental change, or as a response to it; I said that they were RANDOM. Which means that the environment doesn't choose for them to occur. Unless, of course, we're talking about ambient radiation that disrupts base pairs. But even here, WHICH base pairs get disrupted is random. The environment does not reach into the genome and, with an understanding of genetic coding, intentionally choose WHICH base pairs to disrupt so as to produce specific genetic mutations.

The environment simply selects from among which mutations randomly occur, by the simple expedient of death (before reproduction) control applied to the organisms that carry them.

947 Altermite  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:21:53pm

re: #904 FurryOldGuyJeans

I used to, when I was in college. Being a southpaw really messed up my opponents.

It's a big advantage. I was lucky enough to learn from a lefty, so I got used to it, but some folk never really do.

948 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:23:01pm

re: #945 Walter L. Newton

It was clearly appended to a remark about Texas politics.

949 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:23:27pm

re: #947 Altermite

It's a big advantage. I was lucky enough to learn from a lefty, so I got used to it, but some folk never really do.

I thought lefties were non-violent. Can't imagine them sword fighting.

950 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:23:29pm

re: #944 Racer X

No apologies necessary, that's genuine interwebs gold. I'll be subtly springing that one on my buds just for the weirdness factor.

951 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:24:27pm

re: #949 Walter L. Newton

I thought lefties were non-violent. Can't imagine them sword fighting.

*Snicker*

I regard steel (that means swords) as a religion.

952 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:25:57pm

re: #948 Dianna

It was clearly appended to a remark about Texas politics.

Smart assed remarks are smart assed remarks and the "pity" remark had nothing to do with politics.

953 Dianna  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:29:44pm

re: #952 Walter L. Newton

I strongly suggest you re-read, and put your own prejudgement aside. It clearly was (in context) appended to the remark about Texas politics.

954 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:39:22pm

re: #778 MandyManners

Fuck off.

Thank you for such a welcoming response to my post! I am sure that we will have a wonderful relationship based on this initial contact!

955 austin_blue  Tue, May 12, 2009 11:45:35pm

re: #940 Walter L. Newton

I don't care Holton, why don't you answer my "pity" question?

It's a pity he aligns himself with some the loons in Texas. Ron Paul tax policy &c.

956 leereyno  Wed, May 13, 2009 1:00:17am

I'm pretty sure that this has been said many times before, and by persons far more eloquent than I, but I'm going to say it again myself anyway because I think it bears repeating.

The reason why so many Christians are so bound to the story of creation as told in the old testament is because it gives man a divine origin, one in which man is made in God's image. This is, in essence, the very foundation of Christianity. Without it, everything else collapses like a house of cards.

This is why creationists engage in such extreme intellectually dishonesty. They simply cannot bear to deal with the truth psychologically because its implications (unintentional though they might be) are too earth shattering for them to confront. So they seek out anything that will dispute reality, no matter how ridiculous, illogical, and contrary to reality it might be.

Creationism is not a movement as much as it is a psychiatric condition, a denial of reality borne from indoctrination in a belief system whose foundation contains an inescapable flaw.

The other problem with creationists is that are woefully unimaginative. They want to take things literally. If the old testament says 7 days then 7 days it was. They also can't bear to think too hard about things. If they accept that something in the bible is wrong, then they will have to then question other things in the bible that seem odd. Taken to its logical conclusion this process becomes a crisis of faith.

The result is a group of people who must continually retreat from reality.

What can be done about this?

Well, nothing much for the people who are like this themselves, but steps can be taken to protect society from them. The best way to do this is to simply tell the truth. Learn the sophistry of the creationists and understand their own arguments better than they do (not hard since these arguments are canned). Frustrate their attempts to proselytize. But when you do this, do not hate them. Do not become angry or spiteful or cruel. These people are not evil, just wrong. They won't respond to reason, but that is no reason to be mean to them.

Also remember that Christianity is not the problem, biblical literalism is; the ardent desire to believe without question that the bible is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth....even though it isn't.

957 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 3:46:03am

re: #461 Bloodnok

You might want to tighten the string on your mask.

Look, if you believe in Creationism/ID that's fine, but cut the cheap shots.

958 Tigger2005  Wed, May 13, 2009 3:51:36am

re: #13 triumphguy

That's your choice, of course- but lets not confuse the two. I've said it before, science consistently proves itself wrong, but it does affirm the teachings of the Bible.

So what triumphguy is saying is that when science "affirms the teachings of the Bible" or appears to, it's always right. When it doesn't, it's always wrong. When it's neutral on the Bible, or when you have cancer or need to send a message instantly, science is totally cool! But when it conflicts with your beliefs, then scientists are a bunch of liberal atheist morons who never get anything right.

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

Actually, science is a methodology designed to overcome men's flawed minds and senses. It recognizes the limits of human perception, human weaknesses and biases, and has built-in safeguards to minimize these things. Sometimes the system can take time to work and correct itself, but it does work.

And triumphguy, not all conservatives think like you.

959 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 4:24:10am

re: #464 pingjockey

So you're for teaching one version of creation as science? What about the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc....This flies directly in the face of the 1st Amend.

That is not even close to my position. I'm not really for teaching ANY version of creation at all (in public schools, anyway.) It's a touchy subject and a huge distraction from more useful subjects. More importantly, we're handing the far left a club to beat us with by obsessing with the ONLY science topic they're interested in. When will our friends on the left be ridiculed for not knowing F=ma, Q+W=ΔU, V=IR, etc? I sold cars for a while and I had a hippie professor come in to buy a flex-fuel car because she thought it she would get better gas mileage on ethanol. I'm sure she knew all about evolution but her science knowledge was so poor that she was going to pay an extra 25-40% for fuel. Evolution has no value to the average person. If you want to study it go knock yourself out but let the schools teach more practical stuff to the masses.

960 koedo  Wed, May 13, 2009 4:26:59am

#956

I disagree with your conclusion that Christians can not accept the psychological truth and its implications; that humans do not have a divine origin.

Evolution and Intelligent Design are compatible, at least in my mind. I'll take it a step further, they compliment each other.

Evolution has survived rigorous scrutiny by the best minds of the academy over the last 150 or so years (Publication of Origins of Species). Clearly, evolution has very important things to say to us, truths even. Darwin may be more challenged than Pythagoras!

Again, in my mind, there's nothing that prevents the idea of a Designer who manages evolution itself

People have just stubbornly purchased their intellectual (or not) positions and refuse to attempt a reconciliation between the two positions. In an time long past, religion, philosophy and science where closely linked. I'm not advocating a return to that era, I'm simply showing that the seemingly disparate disciplines are not incompatible.

I apologize if I misrepresented your position in any way. I'm trying to think coherently, drink my coffee and get my son ready for school. Clearly, I'm attempting too much

961 Mr Secul  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:09:00am

re: #956 leereyno

Creationism isn't the worship of Christ, its the worship of the bible.

962 rustler  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:18:24am

re: #708 austin_blue He was replying to your insinuation he was drafted in 72. He clarified by providing Branch of service(navy), enlisted in 66. and provided furhter details as to where he was assigned and the fact that lifers(those who make the military a career) didn't appreciate the FNGs (Fucking New Guys) coming in with rank equal to what usually take 4-8 years to achieve.

963 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:27:23am

re: #511 Bloodnok

That post is "anti-science" in a nutshell. Do you believe that scientific discoveries based on evolution science such as genetics and biology to name just a few have benefitted [sic] mankind in any way? Should scientists have just ignored it?

Do you believe scholars armed with a public high school biology class made those discoveries? Having different priorities than you is not anti-science. If all public school kids are taught the same subjects then some effort should be put into teaching what is most useful to the most students. Evolution does not make that list. I don't believe in Creationism/ID. I don't believe in God. I do believe that this subject is a poor use of limited time.

And by the way, WTF does the Amish bit mean?

The point is that believing in Creation has had ZERO negative impact on their wealth.

964 theatheistjew  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:30:07am

The GOP has no chance to come back because of their ridiculous definition of science. They keep kissing the Religious Right's butt, and diss real science by doing so.
They continue to try to blur the line between church and state, and the bottom line is that they have lost the center, and will not get the center back until they drop issues like gay marriage and teaching religion in science class.

965 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:32:51am

re: #959 bobbuck

That is not even close to my position. I'm not really for teaching ANY version of creation at all (in public schools, anyway.) It's a touchy subject and a huge distraction from more useful subjects. More importantly, we're handing the far left a club to beat us with by obsessing with the ONLY science topic they're interested in. When will our friends on the left be ridiculed for not knowing F=ma, Q+W=ΔU, V=IR, etc? I sold cars for a while and I had a hippie professor come in to buy a flex-fuel car because she thought it she would get better gas mileage on ethanol. I'm sure she knew all about evolution but her science knowledge was so poor that she was going to pay an extra 25-40% for fuel. Evolution has no value to the average person. If you want to study it go knock yourself out but let the schools teach more practical stuff to the masses.

Following your specious logic, kids should not be taught ANY science, or much eklse in public schools, except for generic practical skills. How many of them will go on to engage in fields involving history, or mathematics, or requiring the ability to write cogent essays? Should these subjects be dispensed with too? According to your line of thinking, yes.

Only by teaching evolution in public high school science classes will public school educated kids be exposed to it, and even possibly consider majoring in biosience fields on the basis of what they actually involve. Once creationist kids get into college and discover that evolutionary theory is a central and fundamental keystone of bioscience, scads of them simply drop out, and into other less personally troubling fields. And kids that are taught creationism are much more likely to subscribe to it.

This is not good for either our kids or our nation.

966 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:39:00am

re: #963 bobbuck

Do you believe scholars armed with a public high school biology class made those discoveries? Having different priorities than you is not anti-science. If all public school kids are taught the same subjects then some effort should be put into teaching what is most useful to the most students. Evolution does not make that list. I don't believe in Creationism/ID. I don't believe in God. I do believe that this subject is a poor use of limited time.

You'd better believe that the lion's share of the scientists who HAVE made bioscience discoveries or innovations began their bioscience education in public high school science classes that included evolution. Since most students won't go into physics fields, either, perhaps we should not teach physics classes, either, and wonder what happened when we have no native born citizens to run our nuclear reactors or upgrade or man our nuclear deterrent.

The point is that believing in Creation has had ZERO negative impact on their wealth.

Yeah, and the Amish don't drive automobiles, either, so perhaps we should dispense with public high school driver's ed classes; right?

967 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:39:07am

Science is right, for a while. At least until it proves itself wrong. So when a group of scientists, especially the majority, says something is a certain way, take it with a grain of salt, or two.

Examples: Salamanders can be spontaneously produced by throwing a moist log onto a fire; The sun revolves around the earth; The earth is flat; The earth is warming ....

968 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:48:56am

re: #967 scogind

Science is right, for a while. At least until it proves itself wrong. So when a group of scientists, especially the majority, says something is a certain way, take it with a grain of salt, or two.

Examples: Salamanders can be spontaneously produced by throwing a moist log onto a fire; The sun revolves around the earth; The earth is flat; The earth is warming ....

You cite examples of speculative notions from millennia ago, before modern scientific principles had even been formulated, and illegitimately attempt to equate them with evolution, a massively empirically verified theory, and AGW, a new field that is in its investigative infancy. Btw, it was scientists who disproved those ancient notions, and it is scientists who are now pointing to solar cycles as the possible cause for regular terrestrial average ambient temperature fluctuations.

You cannot reduce empirical science to the status of dogmatic religion any more than you can elevate dogmatic religion to the status of empirical science, because the bright lines of the possibility of verification and falsification and the presence vs. the absence of empirical evidence cannot be rhetorically erased.

969 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:54:18am

re: #957 bobbuck

Look, if you believe in Creationism/ID that's fine, but cut the cheap shots.

You're the one who referred to what happened on the planet thousands of years ago, rather than millions or billions of years ago. That sounds like a Biblical Literalist Young Earth Creationist who believes that the earth began a few thousand years ago, rather than someone who accepts the empirical science dating of our planet as 4.6 billion years old.

970 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:54:44am

re: #968 Salamantis

You cite examples of speculative notions from millennia ago, before modern scientific principles had even been formulated, and illegitimately attempt to equate them with evolution, a massively empirically verified theory, and AGW, a new field that is in its investigative infancy. Btw, it was scientists who disproved those ancient notions, and it is scientists who are now pointing to solar cycles as the possible cause for regular terrestrial average ambient temperature fluctuations.

You cannot reduce empirical science to the status of dogmatic religion any more than you can elevate dogmatic religion to the status of empirical science, because the bright lines of the possibility of verification and falsification and the presence vs. the absence of empirical evidence cannot be rhetorically erased.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

971 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 6:02:36am

re: #970 scogind

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Some scientific theories come and go; others come and stay. The germ theory of disease, the spherical heliocentric theory of the earth and solar system, Einsteinian relativity theory, Feynmannian quantum mechanics, and evolution via random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection are examples of massively empirically verified theories for which no contradicting evidence has been found. The chances of them being empirically disproven are so vanishingly small that the space between that chance and no chance at all is practically nonexistent.

972 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 6:28:39am

re: #971 Salamantis

Some scientific theories come and go; others come and stay. The germ theory of disease, the spherical heliocentric theory of the earth and solar system, Einsteinian relativity theory, Feynmannian quantum mechanics, and evolution via random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection are examples of massively empirically verified theories for which no contradicting evidence has been found. The chances of them being empirically disproven are so vanishingly small that the space between that chance and no chance at all is practically nonexistent.

Let's give it a couple-a-hundred more years, or so. Keep in mind "modern" is "modern" because its the present, not because it is superior. The time period of the examples I gave was "modern science" now, as you stated, they are just "speculative notions from millennia ago." If our "modern" knowledge is so superior it would be easy for us to survive if were were magically placed back in time, even as recent as before electricity, indoor plumbing and automobiles. Lots of knowledge is lost in between.

973 NelsFree  Wed, May 13, 2009 6:37:24am

How do we determine the number of heads that have exploded as a result of debunking anti-evolution claims?
Count up all the feet and divide by two.

974 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 6:45:38am

re: #966 Salamantis

...

You'd better believe that the lion's share of the scientists who HAVE made bioscience discoveries or innovations began their bioscience education in public high school science classes that included evolution. Since most students won't go into physics fields, either, perhaps we should not teach physics classes, either, and wonder what happened when we have no native born citizens to run our nuclear reactors or upgrade or man our nuclear deterrent.

...

Yeah, and the Amish don't drive automobiles, either, so perhaps we should dispense with public high school driver's ed classes; right?

Is there some kind of cash prize for slaying the most strawmen? Public schools ARE dropping driver's ed and dumbing down physics. I believe we should teach MORE physics, math, and economics because those are USEFUL subjects. Go count the number of nuclear engineers we graduated in this country last year. It won't take long. Now count up the class-hours wasted on evolution. There is an economic cost for everything that the schools teach. The learned material has worth that cost.

975 Teh Flowah  Wed, May 13, 2009 6:46:24am

re: #970 scogind

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Surprise surprise, denies AGW. I'm not surprised that those who don't respect the opinions of scientists for one theory also disrespect it for another.

I wonder how open these people would be to teaching the controversy to all ideas. Let's say, teach the Holocaust controversy. There's no way 12 million people were gassed, it just wasn't possible if you consider the rate of ovens and the speed at which a human body burns! Tons of deniers make these arguments seemingly based in "science" which are just. plain. wrong. Do we feel the need to teach that nonsense to our kids? Of. fucking. course. not. Or, what about the 9/11 conspiracy theories? Or every other alternative (hippy) theory out there that wants to put the blame for every single problem on the West?

Yeah. I'm sure conservatives would love that. I'm sure it wouldn't rightfully be called brainwashing.

976 drcordell  Wed, May 13, 2009 6:53:01am

re: #208 Charles

Above all else I believe Fox has truly been a devastating blow to conservatism. Whether the "liberal media" exists or not I'll leave for another day. But the fact that so many conservatives are utterly convinced that Fox is the only place to get their news is toxic. How can conservatism make a come back with the idiot trio of Beck, Hannity and O'Reilly leading the charge?

977 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 6:55:04am

re: #965 Salamantis

Following your specious logic, kids should not be taught ANY science, or much eklse [sic] in public schools, except for generic practical skills.

No. That does not follow at all.

978 AMER1CAN  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:08:02am

re: #976 drcordell

How can conservatism make a come back with the idiot trio of Beck, Hannity and O'Reilly leading the charge?

I don't think it's going to make any comeback with these folks as the face of the party. I shutter when I hear those 3 names.

What's the equivalent on the other side? I would say Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, and Anderson Cooper.

I think we need a name for this group of 6 dopes.

Clown Brigade comes to mind.

979 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:09:30am

re: #975 Teh Flowah

Surprise surprise, denies AGW. I'm not surprised that those who don't respect the opinions of scientists for one theory also disrespect it for another.

I wonder how open these people would be to teaching the controversy to all ideas. Let's say, teach the Holocaust controversy. There's no way 12 million people were gassed, it just wasn't possible if you consider the rate of ovens and the speed at which a human body burns! Tons of deniers make these arguments seemingly based in "science" which are just. plain. wrong. Do we feel the need to teach that nonsense to our kids? Of. fucking. course. not. Or, what about the 9/11 conspiracy theories? Or every other alternative (hippy) theory out there that wants to put the blame for every single problem on the West?

Yeah. I'm sure conservatives would love that. I'm sure it wouldn't rightfully be called brainwashing.


You quoted my reply to Salamantis' comment where he agreed that "Science proves and disproves Science"...
You "brainwash" someone by pounding a single, one-sided viewpoint over and over into their heads until they believe there is no other viewpoint what so ever. Do you agree? Now that dosen't mean everything under the sun should be taught in school, especially public schools, does it?

980 koedo  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:22:46am

I think some are overreacting and over stating conservatism's supposed demise. Hearken back to 2000 when the Republicans gained a similar amount of control from the Democrats. If I remember correctly, there were grave concerns that the democratic Party was becoming irrelevant.

Cycles. It's called cycles. Think pendulum. It might take time but things will swing back again. The best thing conservatism has going for it right now is the Democratic Party itself. When you have the Presidency, Senate and House there's no one else to blame. We're not even six months in and the fodder is piling up at a fantastic rate. Calm down just a bit. The sky is not falling and it's not the end of history for conservatism in on conservatism.

981 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:25:20am

re: #974 bobbuck

...

Is there some kind of cash prize for slaying the most strawmen? Public schools ARE dropping driver's ed and dumbing down physics. I believe we should teach MORE physics, math, and economics because those are USEFUL subjects. Go count the number of nuclear engineers we graduated in this country last year. It won't take long. Now count up the class-hours wasted on evolution. There is an economic cost for everything that the schools teach. The learned material has worth that cost.

Bioscience is slated to be the principlal science of the 21st century, as physics was considered to be the principal science of the 20th. With the recent breakthroughs in cloning, stem cell research, genetic engineering and genome sequencing, nothing less than a revolution is in the offing.

Genes for bioluminescence obtained from jellyfish have been spliced into the mouse genome, allowing the function and structure of induced glowing tumors to be studied in a fine-grained manner that may lad to treatments and cures. The genetic sequence for Vitamin A production obtained from daffodils has been spliced into the rice genome, producing a Vitamin A rich grain that prevents millions of poor sputheast asian children from contracting rickets. Genetic modifications to food crops are allowing us to grow hardier crops in areas where they could not grow before due to moisture and temperature, rendering them blight and insect resistant so pesticides are not as necessary, and permitting higher yields. And we are working on genetically engineering viruses whose sole purpose will be to replace the defective genetic sequences possessed by those who suffer from congenitally inherited diseases with the healthy sequences, thus eliminating hereditary illnesses not only for the person, but for all of their descendents, and upon viruses that will splice sequences into our genomes that will render ourselves and all of our descendents immune to some of the most lethal viral diseases out there. And these are only a few of many examples. Evolution instruction wasted and useless? Clearly, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. And you apparently wanna keep the coming generation just as willfully ignorant as you are yourself.

It appears that you just don't want US public high school students to be taught evolution, and would rather keep them ignorant of such empirical facts. I can not think of any nonreligious reason for you to assume such a stance.

982 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:31:23am

re: #975 Teh Flowah

Surprise surprise, denies AGW. I'm not surprised that those who don't respect the opinions of scientists for one theory also disrespect it for another.

I wonder how open these people would be to teaching the controversy to all ideas. Let's say, teach the Holocaust controversy. There's no way 12 million people were gassed, it just wasn't possible if you consider the rate of ovens and the speed at which a human body burns! Tons of deniers make these arguments seemingly based in "science" which are just. plain. wrong. Do we feel the need to teach that nonsense to our kids? Of. fucking. course. not. Or, what about the 9/11 conspiracy theories? Or every other alternative (hippy) theory out there that wants to put the blame for every single problem on the West?

Yeah. I'm sure conservatives would love that. I'm sure it wouldn't rightfully be called brainwashing.

Astrology! Alchemy! Phrenology! The Herbal Doctrine of Signatures! The Theory of Four Elements! The Theory of the Four Humours! The Geocentric Flat Earth Theory! The Theory of Spontaneous Generation! Phlogiston Theory! Universal Ether Theory!

Academic Freedom! Teach the Controversy!

/////////!

983 Flyers1974  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:34:08am

re: #964 theatheistjew

I'm pretty liberal, voted for Obama, happy with Obama, etc..., and as much as I'd like to believe what you say (and what many Dems are saying re: death of the GOP), I don't. Right now, the people in the "middle" think that Obama/Dems have the right answers to the economy, etc... . Regardless of whether they have the right answers, there will come a time when the middle gets tired of the Dems and will easily overlook the GOP's social positions and go Republican.

984 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:36:28am

re: #979 scogind

You quoted my reply to Salamantis' comment where he agreed that "Science proves and disproves Science"...
You "brainwash" someone by pounding a single, one-sided viewpoint over and over into their heads until they believe there is no other viewpoint what so ever. Do you agree? Now that dosen't mean everything under the sun should be taught in school, especially public schools, does it?

Umm, ALL the empirical bioscience evidence supports evolution, and NONE of it contradicts evolution, or supports any other theory.

Show Me The Science
[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

Darwin's Surprise
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

985 Spartacus50  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:46:26am

re: #75 Lincolntf

Anyone watching the Celtics game?
If so, tell me that Van Gundy isn't a dead-ringer for Ron Jeremy.

2003 is calling...they are looking for their lame jokes back

986 Spartacus50  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:50:46am

Tea Parties, Intelligent Design, and secessionist talk. What is a conservative to do?

987 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:52:43am

re: #972 scogind

Let's give it a couple-a-hundred more years, or so. Keep in mind "modern" is "modern" because its the present, not because it is superior. The time period of the examples I gave was "modern science" now, as you stated, they are just "speculative notions from millennia ago." If our "modern" knowledge is so superior it would be easy for us to survive if were were magically placed back in time, even as recent as before electricity, indoor plumbing and automobiles. Lots of knowledge is lost in between.

The examples I gave ARE relatively modern examples. Evolution is a hundred and fifty years old, relativity theory is a hundred years old, and quantum mechanics and plate tectonics are younger than that. But they have also been experimentally corroborated millions of separate times and contradicted not once. The statistical chances of their being falsified in the future hover somewhere between bupkus and nil.

And yes, modern IS superior to ancient - FAR superior, at least as far as quality and longevity of human life is concerned. We know more than we did about the world before, and this allows us to do more. It is better for us to have vaccines to prevent disease and antibiotics to treat it than not to have them. It is better for us to have nuclear power, and computers, and TVs, and telephones, and plastics, and lasers, and automobiles, and airplanes, and gene splicing, and gene sequencing, and the Large Hadron Collider, and the Hubble space telescope, than not to have them. To maintain otherwise is to engage in a strange luddite variant of terminally relativist postmodernism.

988 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 7:55:46am

re: #984 Salamantis

Umm, ALL the empirical bioscience evidence supports evolution, and NONE of it contradicts evolution, or supports any other theory.

Show Me The Science
[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

Darwin's Surprise
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

That's just what I've been talking about, its not here YET. With all the uproar about evolution one would tend to think "science-minded" thinkers would believe in their own "theories." Do you think the evolution of humans has stopped, that future generations of scientists will look back on this time, 2009, an think, "they were the smartest humans, ever?" Personally, I believe that won't ever happen, I believe it be more along the lines of what you said earlier about the sciences of long ago. The sciences of today will be viewed as "examples of speculative notions from millennia ago, before modern scientific principles had even been formulated."
One cannot prove, or disprove karma either.

989 badger1970  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:09:52am

If Palin loses a reelection or election bid I guess we can blame voters for her not being science enough. All kidding aside, for those who are in doubt about what evolution (a law not a theory) is (natural/artificial selection) then watch "A Voice in the Cosmic Ocean" which is the second episode in Carl Sagan's "Cosmos".

Putting it in that perspective gives light that IDers a clueless and creationalists are off-kilter. What is the Republican (far-right wing) party scared of? Lightening is not going to strike anyone down if they proclaim evolution makes sense. The more one delves into the science of it the more wondrous it becomes.

990 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:12:55am

re: #988 scogind

That's just what I've been talking about, its not here YET. With all the uproar about evolution one would tend to think "science-minded" thinkers would believe in their own "theories." Do you think the evolution of humans has stopped, that future generations of scientists will look back on this time, 2009, an think, "they were the smartest humans, ever?" Personally, I believe that won't ever happen, I believe it be more along the lines of what you said earlier about the sciences of long ago. The sciences of today will be viewed as "examples of speculative notions from millennia ago, before modern scientific principles had even been formulated."
One cannot prove, or disprove karma either.

Some understandings achieved by empirical science will never go away. They may be refined, augmented, or elaborated, but they will never be falsified. There's just too much empirical evidence for them, and none against them. Just because we don't know everything, doesn't mean that we don't know some things, and know them beyond rational statistical doubt.

If you can imagine a world in which it is proven in the future that bacteria and viruses are discovered not to cause disease, or it is discovered that shifting tectonic plates don't cause continental drift, or it is demonstrated that genetic mutations acted upon by environmental selection don't lead to changes in species, you need to explore a career as a fantasy writer, because no such world could ever have any connection whatsoever to empirical reality.

BTW: scientists don't believe in their theories, precisely because they can come to know them to be true, via a dispassionate and objective perusal of the objective evidence.

All you are doing is committing the ad ignorantum logical fallacy. What we DON'T know is no argument whatsoever against what we DO know, on the basis of millions of independent empirical verifications and not a single contradiction. And the Aristotelian logic that was developed millennia ago remains sound and valid today.

991 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:20:12am

BTW: scientists don't believe in their theories, precisely because they can come to know them to be true, via a dispassionate and objective perusal of the objective empirical evidence.

PIMF

992 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:21:14am

re: #987 Salamantis

Evolution is a hundred and fifty years old.

And yes, modern IS superior to ancient - FAR superior, at least as far as quality and longevity of human life is concerned. We know more than we did about the world before, and this allows us to do more. It is better for us to have vaccines to prevent disease and antibiotics to treat it than not to have them.

It is better for us to have nuclear power, and computers, and TVs, and telephones, and plastics, and lasers, and automobiles, and airplanes, and gene splicing, and gene sequencing, and the Large Hadron Collider, and the Hubble space telescope, than not to have them. To maintain otherwise is to engage in a strange luddite variant of terminally relativist postmodernism.

If Evolution is happening, it has/is happening from the beginning of time. The vaccines to prevent diseases are going directly against evolution by definition, thus allowing humans to keep on breeding humans that are not resistant to these diseases. Look around, I'm sure there's some humans you've encountered that you believe should not be allowed to breed. But, who gets to decide? The rich, the poor, the afflicted? It seems humans, (read science) are/is trying to stop evolution to overcome nature.
All the gadgets in the world does not make life better, just more comfortable for human environment. Some in the list may well eliminate this environment and I may be the only human who thinks we are not here to be more comfortable, or "modern."

993 She Said  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:36:27am

Seems to me LGF is imposing the same rules on IDers as Global Warming "no more debaters" are imposing on those who do not wholeheartedly believe in every argument made by global warming zealots.

Why and how is irreducible complexity more or less unproven than we came from primordial ooze?

Your being weary of castigating those that refuse to fall in line with all theories of evolution makes me think it is you, not the RedState folks with the problem.

994 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:42:40am

re: #992 scogind

Sal: Evolution is a hundred and fifty years old.

If Evolution is happening, it has/is happening from the beginning of time.

You damn well know what I meant; I meant that Darwin published Origin of Species a hundred and fifty years ago.

The vaccines to prevent diseases are going directly against evolution by definition, thus allowing humans to keep on breeding humans that are not resistant to these diseases. Look around, I'm sure there's some humans you've encountered that you believe should not be allowed to breed. But, who gets to decide? The rich, the poor, the afflicted? It seems humans, (read science) are/is trying to stop evolution to overcome nature.

No, we have evolved the prerequisite intelligence to be able to counter the depredations of these phages. And as soon as folks are vaccinated, they ARE resistant to them. Not only that, but if we succeed in engineering viruses that splice immunizing genetic sequences into our genomes, all of our descendents will be born immune to them, too.

Perhaps you don't think we should farm crops, or raise livestock, or wear clothes, or build shelters, or sterilize our water; these things are also technically unnatural, and allow people who would have perished to thrive.

You're not seriously advocating a return to the same unmediated environmental selection that renders the natural world such a vast killing field, are you?

I happen to agree with Dawkins here:

[Link: www.naturalhistorymag.com...]

Huxley, George C. Williams, and other evolutionists have opposed Darwinism as a political and moral doctrine just as passionately as they have advocated its scientific truth. I count myself in that company. Science needs to understand natural selection as a force in nature, the better to oppose it as a normative force in politics. Darwin himself expressed dismay at the callousness of natural selection: “What a book a Devil’s Chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering low & horridly cruel works of nature!”

All the gadgets in the world does not make life better, just more comfortable for human environment. Some in the list may well eliminate this environment and I may be the only human who thinks we are not here to be more comfortable, or "modern."

More comfortable for us IS an indice of better. It is better to be well-fed and well-watered than it is to be starving and thirsting. It is better to be sheltered and clothed than to be exposed to the elements. It is better to be healthy than sick.

Knowledge is morally neutral; it is neither intrinsically good nor inherently evil. It is a conceptual tool, just as ploughshares and swords are physical tools constructed by recourse to such concepts. What we intend and do with that knowledge can be either good or evil, but that power and concommitant responsibility lies with us, not with the knowledge itself.

995 Salamantis  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:52:52am

re: #993 She Said

Seems to me LGF is imposing the same rules on IDers as Global Warming "no more debaters" are imposing on those who do not wholeheartedly believe in every argument made by global warming zealots.

Why and how is irreducible complexity more or less unproven than we came from primordial ooze?

You can debate all you want; just have empirical facts to back up your position. But ID/creationism HAS NO supporting empirical evidence. None whatsoever.

The beginning of terrestrial life is not dealt with in evolutionary theory, but in origins of life theory. Evolutionary theory only deals with what transpires when already-present populations of organisms possessing high but imperfect genetic copying fidelity are confronted by environments with specific challenges and opportunities. And what happens is random genetic mutation acted upon by nonrandom environmental selection.

And empirical scientists are still waiting for the first authentic example of irreduceable complexity; all the candidates that ID has so far proffered have been shown to be quite reduceable.

Your being weary of castigating those that refuse to fall in line with all theories of evolution makes me think it is you, not the RedState folks with the problem.

You are entitled to harbor your own opinion; however, you are not entitled to credibly maintain its validity or veracity in the absence of empirical facts. And ALL of the empirical evidence supports evolution, and NONE of it supports ID or contradicts evolution.

996 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:54:28am

re: #993 She Said

Why and how is irreducible complexity more or less unproven than we came from primordial ooze?

What is it with creationists and "primordial ooze?" That phrase really seems to grab their imaginations for some reason.

On the hoax of "irreducible complexity:"

997 Liberal Classic  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:55:18am

re: #993 She Said

Seems to me LGF is imposing the same rules on IDers as Global Warming "no more debaters" are imposing on those who do not wholeheartedly believe in every argument made by global warming zealots.

Why and how is irreducible complexity more or less unproven than we came from primordial ooze?

Your being weary of castigating those that refuse to fall in line with all theories of evolution makes me think it is you, not the RedState folks with the problem.

And a good thing, too.

Science denial tends to occur in clusters. Someone who is inclined to believe that there is a conspiracy by zealots to suppress evidence for intelligent design may also be prone to believing similar things about the greenhouse effect or vaccinations. The only politically profitable position is to take a firm stand against such thinking, and support the dominant view of the scientific establishment.

998 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 13, 2009 8:56:06am

Also see: [Link: www.millerandlevine.com...]

Of course, if you'd rather believe in fantasies and unscientific nonsense, that's your perfect right.

999 jaunte  Wed, May 13, 2009 9:00:06am

re: #993 She Said

One problem with ID being taken seriously as a theory is that it must be formulated as a theory (has to make predictions, and be falsifiable) to be productive. As it now stands, ID is a political tool, and is rightfully criticized for its scientific deficiencies.

1000 leereyno  Wed, May 13, 2009 9:09:12am

re: #960 koedo

#956

I disagree with your conclusion that Christians can not accept the psychological truth and its implications; that humans do not have a divine origin.

Evolution and Intelligent Design are compatible, at least in my mind. I'll take it a step further, they compliment each other.

Evolution has survived rigorous scrutiny by the best minds of the academy over the last 150 or so years (Publication of Origins of Species). Clearly, evolution has very important things to say to us, truths even. Darwin may be more challenged than Pythagoras!

Again, in my mind, there's nothing that prevents the idea of a Designer who manages evolution itself

People have just stubbornly purchased their intellectual (or not) positions and refuse to attempt a reconciliation between the two positions. In an time long past, religion, philosophy and science where closely linked. I'm not advocating a return to that era, I'm simply showing that the seemingly disparate disciplines are not incompatible.

I apologize if I misrepresented your position in any way. I'm trying to think coherently, drink my coffee and get my son ready for school. Clearly, I'm attempting too much

Everything you said is true, except for the first paragraph. These ideas CAN be reconciled by somone with a little imagination and the willingness to let go of biblical literalism. But these are the very qualities that are sorely lacking among the sort of Christians who are stuck on stupid when it comes to creationism.

They are not oriented to reality, but to an ideology that has taken the place of reality. To the degree to which that ideology is at odds with what is, they must retreat from reality. They are like moonbats. Present a moonbat with a truth that is contrary to that set of ideologies, and they will engage in the most elaborate evasions, misrepresentations, and outright lies you could ever hope to see. Creationists do the same thing because the psychological mechanism is the same for both: denial of intolerable truths.

You can never win an argument with either sort of person because they are blind to reason. The only reason to confront them and refute their nonsense is to protect others from their bullshit, of which creationism is decidedly the less harmful. Believing that the earth is 6,000 years old has not led to the almost unimaginable evils that moonbat ideologies have.

1001 Deseeded  Wed, May 13, 2009 9:10:42am

re: #992 scogind

Vaccines are not devolving devices, they are simply stop gaps. With the advent of gene manipulation, we are forcing our own evolution at a much faster pace and in a more specialized fashion. Evolution does not have to be environmental, you know.

I can't wait until we lose are useless baby toes! :p

1002 Deseeded  Wed, May 13, 2009 9:16:26am

I don't mean to get callous here and I truly respect those that are strong in faith, but evolution and intelligent design go together as much as saying "I know how to drive a car, but I don't know how to rebuild my engine, therefore Jesus Built My Hotrod".

1003 Teh Flowah  Wed, May 13, 2009 9:35:39am

re: #979 scogind

You quoted my reply to Salamantis' comment where he agreed that "Science proves and disproves Science"...
You "brainwash" someone by pounding a single, one-sided viewpoint over and over into their heads until they believe there is no other viewpoint what so ever. Do you agree? Now that dosen't mean everything under the sun should be taught in school, especially public schools, does it?

I don't call it brainwashing when it's a fact :v

2+2=4 isn't brainwashing. It's fact.
The earth revolves around the sun = fact
Evolution is the only scientific theory in existence regarding the development of life that has been supported over and over again by every scientific discovery while intelligent design has been shown to have no supporting scientific evidence and is the last stand of creationists = fact.

If intelligent designers could point to science to support their "theory" they would, instead of crying about persecution for being idiots. But, surprise surprise, they tried, absolutely got torn a new asshole by scientists, then resort to the victimology card. Waaaaah I'm being persecuted for having ridiculous beliefs that I want to be taught in Public school. WAAAAAAAAAH.

Come back when you have some science. And forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

1004 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 10:19:12am

re: #981 Salamantis


It appears that you just don't want US public high school students to be taught evolution, and would rather keep them ignorant of such empirical facts. I can not think of any nonreligious reason for you to assume such a stance.

You can teach them all the evolution you want but not with tax dollars. I don't care. I just don't want the government telling people their religion is wrong, even if it is. There is not end to that. Just because evolution wins this time doesn't mean that next time the Branch Davidians can't cobble together enough votes to set the curriculum.

To make your argument about the importance of teaching evolution you had to include the whole field of biology. You're thinking that evolution underlies all of biology. Fine. I'll grant you that but you can still teach much more about biology than they currently cover and still not need to touch evolution. How many students take trigonometry without having the slightest idea of the proof for the Pythagorean theorem?

The only reason the evolution debate is brought up so often is because it's a tool to beat up conservatives. If it was bona-fide concern for science and progress they would be screaming thier heads off about 40% drop out rates and dire state of education in the other sciences.

1005 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 10:24:14am

re: #1003 Teh Flowah

I don't call it brainwashing when it's a fact :v

2+2=4 isn't brainwashing. It's fact.
The earth revolves around the sun = fact
Evolution is the only scientific theory in existence regarding the development of life that has been supported over and over again by every scientific discovery while intelligent design has been shown to have no supporting scientific evidence and is the last stand of creationists = fact.

If intelligent designers could point to science to support their "theory" they would, instead of crying about persecution for being idiots. But, surprise surprise, they tried, absolutely got torn a new asshole by scientists, then resort to the victimology card. Waaaaah I'm being persecuted for having ridiculous beliefs that I want to be taught in Public school. WAAAAAAAAAH.

Come back when you have some science. And forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Theory ≠ Fact, Don't you agree?

1006 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 10:32:37am

re: #1001 Deseeded

Vaccines are not devolving devices, they are simply stop gaps. With the advent of gene manipulation, we are forcing our own evolution at a much faster pace and in a more specialized fashion. Evolution does not have to be environmental, you know.

I can't wait until we lose are useless baby toes! :p

Here's an example of how "smart/evolved" we've become.
Hog Farms. Hogs are raised and grown in horrible conditions, even for hogs. They are never allowed to step foot on real earth/ground because of regulations put on them by the food industries and FDA. They are cramped and thus become stressed and began eating the ears and tails off of their cellmates. "Smart" scientists are using gene manipulation to find the stress-gene and alter it so the hogs are calm when all they have to do is open the door and let them roam around in the pastures for awhile. Sound like evolution to you? That's where humans are headed as well because as smart as we think we are, we are not smart enough. Humans are here for one purpose.

1007 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 13, 2009 10:32:50am

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory:

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

- Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981

1008 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 13, 2009 10:36:12am

re: #1004 bobbuck

You can teach them all the evolution you want but not with tax dollars.

Sorry, but you don't get to decide this. Children are taught science in public schools, and evolution is science. Therefore, it will be taught in public schools whether you like it or not.

The only reason the evolution debate is brought up so often is because it's a tool to beat up conservatives.

No -- the reason why evolution is brought up so much is because conservative politicians keep trying to force and/or sneak the teaching of creationism into schools. If conservatives are being "beat up" over this, it's because they bloody well deserve it.

1009 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 11:32:11am

re: #1008 Charles

No -- the reason why evolution is brought up so much is because conservative politicians keep trying to force and/or sneak the teaching of creationism into schools. If conservatives are being "beat up" over this, it's because they bloody well deserve it.

And I agree with you completely that creationism should not be taught in schools but I will never be comfortable with the government being the final arbiter of scientific fact. It's been wrong too many times.

1010 Teh Flowah  Wed, May 13, 2009 11:33:50am

re: #1005 scogind

Theory ≠ Fact, Don't you agree?

Can't say I'm surprised as to your oblivious ignorance about the meaning of words in the context of science. In fact, I expected it completely. But congratulations on once again confirming that absolutely 100% of the people who enter into this debate on the side of ID are 100% fucking stupid and uninformed.re: #1006 scogind

Here's an example of how "smart/evolved" we've become.
Hog Farms. Hogs are raised and grown in horrible conditions, even for hogs. They are never allowed to step foot on real earth/ground because of regulations put on them by the food industries and FDA. They are cramped and thus become stressed and began eating the ears and tails off of their cellmates. "Smart" scientists are using gene manipulation to find the stress-gene and alter it so the hogs are calm when all they have to do is open the door and let them roam around in the pastures for awhile. Sound like evolution to you? That's where humans are headed as well because as smart as we think we are, we are not smart enough. Humans are here for one purpose.

No it doesn't sound like evolution at all. Evolution is about NATURAL selection and NATURAL pressures. Humans genetically modifying creatures and/or breeding for certain traits is an external pressure. That's more eugenics than evolution. What you fail to understand is that your example doesn't do diddly shit to disprove evolution in the slightest. It doesn't even deal with evolution at all.

If your whole point was to say that humans aren't as smart as we thought. Well, no shit. You're fucking exhibit A for Christ's sake. How does that disprove evolution? Evolution doesn't have a purpose, it doesn't seek to make animals more intelligent.

If you're trying to say that humans are seeking to design creatures, and that's supposed to be some kind of evidence that the same could be said for all life on the planet, well no, that's stupid and tortured "logic". Humans do a lot of things that nature does on its own. Once we learn the mechanisms by which nature operates, we use it to our own benefit, that doesn't mean nature didn't do it first, NATURALLY. Lightning happens naturally. Chemical reactions happen naturally. And on down the line. But we now understand why, and we can manipulate them to our will. That's because some of us in the human species use our brains and logic. You can continue using whatever cobbled together cells functioning as an excuse for a brain that you're using.

1011 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 13, 2009 11:39:48am

re: #1009 bobbuck

And I agree with you completely that creationism should not be taught in schools but I will never be comfortable with the government being the final arbiter of scientific fact. It's been wrong too many times.

Evolution is taught in science classes not because the government "arbited" it -- but because it's one of the strongest, best-supported scientific theories in existence.

It's valid science and it belongs in science classrooms. The government didn't decide this -- scientists and biologists did. On the other hand, Republican politicians continue to try to use the power of the government to sneak creationism into classrooms, despite the fact that there is no scientific support for it. Yes, there is governmental abuse here -- but it's all coming from the GOP side.

1012 Teh Flowah  Wed, May 13, 2009 11:40:50am

re: #1009 bobbuck

And I agree with you completely that creationism should not be taught in schools but I will never be comfortable with the government being the final arbiter of scientific fact. It's been wrong too many times.

Sigh. Don't be a dolt. The government isn't deciding what is science, scientists are. Say that tomorrow, ID and evolution flip flopped. All the evidence and scientific consensus for evolution was now in the ID camp and evolution had nothing. Do you really think the government would shut its eyes and cover its ears and refuse to teach science as the entire scientific community and mountains of data see it?

Or more to the point, why are you bringing up straw men?

1013 scogind  Wed, May 13, 2009 11:41:35am

re: #1010 Teh Flowah

No it doesn't sound like evolution at all. Evolution is about NATURAL selection and NATURAL pressures. Humans genetically modifying creatures and/or breeding for certain traits is an external pressure. That's more eugenics than evolution. What you fail to understand is that your example doesn't do diddly shit to disprove evolution in the slightest. It doesn't even deal with evolution at all.

If your whole point was to say that humans aren't as smart as we thought. Well, no shit. You're fucking exhibit A for Christ's sake. How does that disprove evolution? Evolution doesn't have a purpose, it doesn't seek to make animals more intelligent.

If you're trying to say that humans are seeking to design creatures, and that's supposed to be some kind of evidence that the same could be said for all life on the planet, well no, that's stupid and tortured "logic". Humans do a lot of things that nature does on its own. Once we learn the mechanisms by which nature operates, we use it to our own benefit, that doesn't mean nature didn't do it first, NATURALLY. Lightning happens naturally. Chemical reactions happen naturally. And on down the line. But we now understand why, and we can manipulate them to our will. That's because some of us in the human species use our brains and logic. You can continue using whatever cobbled together cells functioning as an excuse for a brain that you're using.

I was replying to #1001 you dip-shit! This is what I replyed to:

Vaccines are not devolving devices, they are simply stop gaps. With the advent of gene manipulation, we are forcing our own evolution at a much faster pace and in a more specialized fashion. Evolution does not have to be environmental, you know.

I can't wait until we lose are useless baby toes! :p

Go suck on your post-graduate thumb. You look smarter that way!

1014 fizzlogic  Wed, May 13, 2009 12:02:38pm

re: #13 triumphguy

Conservatives believe in science, Charles. We just don't accept it to absolute. Science is the product of the minds of men.

And by that statement you prove the book you base your faith is a product of man's imagination. Acknowledging such is a tough road to take. But people like you make it easier to travel.

1015 Animal  Wed, May 13, 2009 12:17:22pm

re: #821 Walter L. Newton

Could be, although I'm across town from you. I was on Rosen on Nov. 10, 2001, although I bet Mike doesn't keep archives back that far in podcast form.

I was on Lewis & Floorwax, too, promoting the same book. That also was a lot of fun, although for different reasons.

1016 american sabra  Wed, May 13, 2009 12:39:19pm

re: #1011 Charles

Evolution is taught in science classes not because the government "arbited" it -- but because it's one of the strongest, best-supported scientific theories in existence.

Well that and gravity, which begs the question. Do creationists "believe" gravity too? My husband has a bumper sticker, in fact, "Gravity is "just a theory," too."

1017 Teh Flowah  Wed, May 13, 2009 1:50:42pm

re: #1013 scogind

I was replying to #1001 you dip-shit! This is what I replyed to:

Vaccines are not devolving devices, they are simply stop gaps. With the advent of gene manipulation, we are forcing our own evolution at a much faster pace and in a more specialized fashion. Evolution does not have to be environmental, you know.

I can't wait until we lose are useless baby toes! :p

Go suck on your post-graduate thumb. You look smarter that way!

lol Post-graduate thumb. Anti-intellectualism is a standard for people like you. Shame on those who get an education! I believe in faith and that's all I need!

Keep dancing around the issue. I know you will. :)

1018 Achilles Tang  Wed, May 13, 2009 3:11:04pm

re: #1004 bobbuck

You can teach them all the evolution you want but not with tax dollars. I don't care. I just don't want the government telling people their religion is wrong, even if it is.

It's not that their religion is wrong, it is just that the people who wrote it were ignorant on most of science and that many people today are just as ignorant and therefore can't reconcile knowledge with faith.

You on the other hand just don't care, whether you understand or not, and sound like a royal ass.

1019 Achilles Tang  Wed, May 13, 2009 3:12:53pm

re: #1006 scogind

Humans are here for one purpose.

And that is what? Eat pork?

1020 bobbuck  Wed, May 13, 2009 3:22:21pm

Alright. I'm over it. Have fun arguing about the importance of evolution. I'm gonna go eat some Amish cheese. Not bad for $4 / pound.

1021 Achilles Tang  Wed, May 13, 2009 3:24:35pm

re: #1020 bobbuck

Alright. I'm over it. Have fun arguing about the importance of evolution. I'm gonna go eat some Amish cheese. Not bad for $4 / pound.

You were over it the first time you posted. Stuff yourself.

1022 Mr Secul  Wed, May 13, 2009 4:57:03pm

re: #1012 Teh Flowah

Or more to the point, why are you bringing up straw men?

Because he doesn't have anything else.

1023 Mr Secul  Wed, May 13, 2009 5:21:04pm

re: #996 Charles

Google for V-ATPase or F-ATPase you will get some amazing hits. These molecular complexes can pump protons across a cell membrane by breaking down ATP or they can generate ATP by extracting energy from proton flow across a cell membrane.

The connection between these molecules and the bacterial flagellum is that they rotate around an axis as they operate and are similar to the 'engine' that drives the bacterial flagellum.

Pumping stuff across membranes and generating energy are some of the most basic functions that a cell must carry out. The bacterial flagellum was made from some of the most basic elements of the cell membrane.

How do we know how the F-ATPase works? How do we know it rotates?

Just google F-ATPase and follow the hits. Its awesome the work that the scientists have put in to come to the position where they know that the F-ATPase complex rotates.

Contrast their work and their arguments with the poor quality drivel we have heard from their opponents on this page. The difference is night and day. I trust the scientists to determine the curriculum of science classes much more than I trust politicians and people of bobuck or scogind's ilk.

Here is a quick example of what the scientists have been up to.

We attached a
magnetic bead to the g-subunit of isolated F1 on a glass surface,
and rotated the bead using electrical magnets. Rotation in the
appropriate direction resulted in the appearance of ATP in the
medium as detected by the luciferase–luciferin reaction. This
shows that a vectorial force (torque) working at one particular
point on a protein machine can influence a chemical reaction
occurring in physically remote catalytic sites, driving the reaction
far from equilibrium.
When isolated F1 hydrolyses ATP, its central g-subunit rotates
anticlockwise4 when viewed from above in Fig. 1a, with an efficiency
of chemical-to-mechanical energy conversion approaching 100%

Rotate the beads using magnets and you can generate ATP. Or you can let the molecules break down ATP and watch the beads rotate in the opposite direction.

1024 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 12:41:47am

re: #1004 bobbuck

You can teach them all the evolution you want but not with tax dollars. I don't care. I just don't want the government telling people their religion is wrong, even if it is. There is not end to that. Just because evolution wins this time doesn't mean that next time the Branch Davidians can't cobble together enough votes to set the curriculum.

Empirical science is empirical science. It is what should be taught in public high school science classes. The 1st Amendment forbids religious considerations dictating which facts and organizing frameworks may and may not be taught in public school classrooms.

To make your argument about the importance of teaching evolution you had to include the whole field of biology. You're thinking that evolution underlies all of biology. Fine. I'll grant you that but you can still teach much more about biology than they currently cover and still not need to touch evolution. How many students take trigonometry without having the slightest idea of the proof for the Pythagorean theorem?

It was Theodore Dobzhansky who famously asserted that nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. It would be like trying to teach geometry without reference to Euclid.

The only reason the evolution debate is brought up so often is because it's a tool to beat up conservatives. If it was bona-fide concern for science and progress they would be screaming thier heads off about 40% drop out rates and dire state of education in the other sciences.

Evolution is brought up here because its denial, and the unconstitutional endeavor to insert the religious dogma of creationism/ID in its stead in public high school science classes, is a religious socon pushed antiscience idiotarianism to which the Republican party has unfortunately attached itself. They need to rectify this regrettable situation, for the sake of our kids, the sake of their party, and the sake of this nation.

1025 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 12:46:51am

re: #1005 scogind

Theory ≠ Fact, Don't you agree?

Theories are frameworks under which masses of facts are organized. In the absence of the unifying evolutionary framework, the vast masses of bioscience empirical facts lack a means by which to relate them to each other and they are rendered collectively incoherent.

1026 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 12:56:24am

re: #1006 scogind

Here's an example of how "smart/evolved" we've become.
Hog Farms. Hogs are raised and grown in horrible conditions, even for hogs. They are never allowed to step foot on real earth/ground because of regulations put on them by the food industries and FDA. They are cramped and thus become stressed and began eating the ears and tails off of their cellmates. "Smart" scientists are using gene manipulation to find the stress-gene and alter it so the hogs are calm when all they have to do is open the door and let them roam around in the pastures for awhile. Sound like evolution to you? That's where humans are headed as well because as smart as we think we are, we are not smart enough. Humans are here for one purpose.

The conditions of hog farms have nothing to do with the empirical validity and veracity of evolutionary theory.

And there are as many human purposes as there are humans. Unlike other terrestrial organisms, we humans have evolved conscious self-awareness, which allows us to reflect upon and freely and individually choose our goals and desires, rather than being constrained into species-specific responses predetermined by the interrelation between genetically mandated instincts, historical conditioning, and impinging sensory stimuli.

1027 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 1:05:28am

re: #1009 bobbuck

And I agree with you completely that creationism should not be taught in schools but I will never be comfortable with the government being the final arbiter of scientific fact. It's been wrong too many times.

You want the government to be the arbiter of scientific fact, and and if you can't get it to mandate the pollution of the bioscience education of this nation's children with your pet religious dogmas, you at the very least don't want authentic and genuine empirical-evidence-supported bioscience to be taught to them. The government hasn't dictated that evolutionary theory is valid, solid and sound; bioscientists have empirically ascertained it to be via investigation and experiment.

1028 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 1:13:39am

re: #1013 scogind

I was replying to #1001 you dip-shit! This is what I replyed to:

Vaccines are not devolving devices, they are simply stop gaps. With the advent of gene manipulation, we are forcing our own evolution at a much faster pace and in a more specialized fashion. Evolution does not have to be environmental, you know.

I can't wait until we lose are useless baby toes! :p

Go suck on your post-graduate thumb. You look smarter that way!

You, scogind, are a perfect fucking shitstorm of ignorance, arrogance, and irretrievable obtuseness. Your gratuitously offensive and logorrheal bloviations indelibly brand you as a pompous hemorrhoidal anus of the lowest degree.

See? I can fecklessly and ignobly spew senseless ad hominems just as well as you can. And they prove just as much as yours do; that is, not a damn thing.

1029 scogind  Thu, May 14, 2009 5:35:26am

re: #1028 Salamantis

My, My ... you post-graduates sure are sensitive. But I'm glad that you all agreed that "gene-manipulation" is not evolution, human or hog! I know intellectuals only need to hear one side of a conversation to form their responses, but could you try a little harder to read what a person is responding to before jumping their shit. It makes you sound a little more "educated" than all those big words do.

re: #1019 Naso Tang

And that is what? Eat pork?

Yes, that too, but more importantly, we are here to prove our faith to God!

1030 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 6:49:21am

re: #1029 scogind

My, My ... you post-graduates sure are sensitive. But I'm glad that you all agreed that "gene-manipulation" is not evolution, human or hog! I know intellectuals only need to hear one side of a conversation to form their responses, but could you try a little harder to read what a person is responding to before jumping their shit. It makes you sound a little more "educated" than all those big words do.

Of course gene manipulation is not evolution; it's the only intelligent design for which we have any empirical evidence - because we are the intelligences doing the designing. But the fact that we CAN use this mechanism and make it work for us conclusively demonstrates that the genome is the means by which species change; what works is true, and genetic manipulation works to alter species. Environmental selection simply acts upon species much more slowly, because rather than splice in genetic changes, it simply applies selection pressures (temperature, moisture, parasites, diseases, food sources, niche competitors, predators, etc.) upon organisms possessing both the baseline species genomes and the genetic mutations that naturally occur.

You are not just willfully ignorant, but also perversely proud of the fact, and exhibit a bizarre form of reverse snob contempt for those who are less ignorant than you are. You remind me of the folks whom Chris Rock lampoons in this video:

I just figured that if I wanted to converse with you, I had to knock on your door with the odious and the execrable, because it has become surpassingly clear that that is where you live.

re: #1019 Naso Tang

And that is what? Eat pork?

Yes, that too, but more importantly, we are here to prove our faith to God!

Tell that to the Hindus and the Pagans, who believe in multiple gods, or to the Buddhists and the Taoists and the Confucians, who don't believe in any gods at all.

But you don't think much of them, do you? You think they're going straight to a Hell that they don't even believe in, don't you? What if one of their faiths is right, and yours is wrong? What if ALL of you are wrong? Or what if it is just your interpretation of the faith that is wrong? But then again, Biblical Literalists cannot admit that they're interpreting, too. And the more nonsensical and absurd a Biblically literal contention is undeniably shown to be, the more conclusively it has been refuted and discredited, the prouder Biblical Literalists seem to be about loudly proclaiming that they believe in it anyway, in the face of irretrieveably falsifying counterfactual empirical evidence. It's like they think that they get some sort of Cosmic brownie points for embracing the proven untrue, and thus appearing dim or unhinged to the more reasonable people around them. Case in point: YECers continuing to insanely and imbecilically insist that the universe, the earth, and all the many millions of its terrestrial species, both existent and extinct, were created independently and as is in the span of a few days a few thousand years ago.

More than a century ago, Friedrich Nietszche said that "faith is not wanting to know." But it is worse than that now; religious fundamentalists these days actively want NOT to know, and campaign for others not to learn and know, either - because they fear the knowledge that contradicts their cherished beliefs, and dread the spread of such knowledge.

You are a prime example of such a person.

1031 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 6:52:14am

The video I referenced in my previous post didn't come through; here is a second attempt to post it:

1032 scogind  Thu, May 14, 2009 7:18:00am

re: #1030 Salamantis

Nietszche and You are wrong. Faith is NOT NEEDING to know.

So, you look up to Chris Rock huh?

1033 Salamantis  Thu, May 14, 2009 9:42:47am

re: #1032 scogind

Nietszche and You are wrong. Faith is NOT NEEDING to know.

So, you look up to Chris Rock huh?

Willful ignorance may be good enough for the likes of you, but it is not good enough for most people, thank goodness, or we would still be shambling around naked and eating tubers and raw meat while gutterally Ook! Ook!ing as we fearfully wave tree branches of appeasement at the threatening thunderstorm god.

And Chris Rock in that video clip employed sarcastic humor and lampooning ridicule to engage in a trenchant and penetrating social criticism of a pernicious know-nothing tendency that infects all races. When such caustic criticisms hit their targets dead bullseye center, one can tell because the bit dogs bark, and you just woofed your knowledge-hating head off.

1034 Euler  Thu, May 14, 2009 9:58:34am

I know this thread is near dead, but I want to add an observation for the record. User bobbuck appears to have no appreciation of the distinction between knowing a script and understanding. It is either this, or else he believes that the public school student must be treated as a programmable automaton, and his instruction must be limited to instilling rote procedures.

#181: If you go to the church of 2+2=5 then a state school must not teach 2+2=4. I don't see a way around this and even if you accept that the public schools are right and the religion is wrong how you know they'll be right on the next subject?
#963: If all public school kids are taught the same subjects then some effort should be put into teaching what is most useful to the most students. Evolution does not make that list.
#1004: ...you can still teach much more about biology than they currently cover and still not need to touch evolution. How many students take trigonometry without having the slightest idea of the proof for the Pythagorean theorem?

To understand biology, one must understand natural selection. To understand trigonometry, one must understand the Pythagorean theorem.

1035 scogind  Fri, May 15, 2009 7:01:53am

re: #1033 Salamantis

Willful ignorance may be good enough for the likes of you, but it is not good enough for most people, thank goodness, or we would still be shambling around naked and eating tubers and raw meat while gutterally Ook! Ook!ing as we fearfully wave tree branches of appeasement at the threatening thunderstorm god.

Knowledge is knowing which tubers are safe to eat..(won't kill you)... yet you seem to think someone that can do that are ignorant while at the same time thinking this babbling b.s. is knowledge... see below:

A perceptual modality without a possible object of sense is a contradiction in terms, and a perceptual modality that was deceitful in the Cartesian sense would have negative survival value for its host, and hence for itself. Although the thing-in-itself is different than is the thing-for-us, the former must contain the latter as aspects of itself. In other words, it must exist within-itself in such a manner that its apprehension by our sensory modalities produces what we perceive when we apprehend it. Thus, objects of perception – insofar as they are objects of perception, that is, perceivable – must not only be perceivable by means of the perceptual means available to us, but also our perceptions of them, as aspects of the objects (as well as of ourselves), may not contradict the object's other aspects which are not perceivable by us. The whole object-in-itself must, without internal contradiction, contain all of its constituent parts, including those that may be called the object-for-us, and where aspects of the object-for-us seem to conflict with each other, the whole object-in-itself must reconcile them. If it does not, it is either (a) not the whole but itself a part, or (b) the perceived aspects are not aspects of a single whole. Only on the basis of these considerations does it make sense for us to act in accordance with the information provided by our senses, and only on the basis of these considerations does it make sense that our senses evolved.

There are many forms of ignorance... being educated beyond one's intellect, for example.

1036 Salamantis  Fri, May 15, 2009 8:17:14am

re: #1035 scogind

Knowledge is knowing which tubers are safe to eat..(won't kill you)... yet you seem to think someone that can do that are ignorant while at the same time thinking this babbling b.s. is knowledge... see below:

Sal: and scogind quotes me from another thread:

"A perceptual modality without a possible object of sense is a contradiction in terms, and a perceptual modality that was deceitful in the Cartesian sense would have negative survival value for its host, and hence for itself. Although the thing-in-itself is different than is the thing-for-us, the former must contain the latter as aspects of itself. In other words, it must exist within-itself in such a manner that its apprehension by our sensory modalities produces what we perceive when we apprehend it. Thus, objects of perception – insofar as they are objects of perception, that is, perceivable – must not only be perceivable by means of the perceptual means available to us, but also our perceptions of them, as aspects of the objects (as well as of ourselves), may not contradict the object's other aspects which are not perceivable by us. The whole object-in-itself must, without internal contradiction, contain all of its constituent parts, including those that may be called the object-for-us, and where aspects of the object-for-us seem to conflict with each other, the whole object-in-itself must reconcile them. If it does not, it is either (a) not the whole but itself a part, or (b) the perceived aspects are not aspects of a single whole. Only on the basis of these considerations does it make sense for us to act in accordance with the information provided by our senses, and only on the basis of these considerations does it make sense that our senses evolved."

There are many forms of ignorance... being educated beyond one's intellect, for example.

I never said that knowing which tubers to eat constituted ignorance (it is obviously practical knowledge for those who indigenous tribal folk who still live in the wilderness); I said that not wanting to learn, discover or create more than that is the definition of willful ignorance. If matter had remained thus, no one would have invented written language, and you wouldn't even have a millennia-old scripture to tell you everything you think you need to know in life. I'm sure it tells you all about edible tubers...

And I wouldn't expect you to be able to comprehend the phenomenological import of the philosophical passage of mine that you quoted (my BA is in philosophy, and it was the major track in my humanities interdisciplinary MA). From what I can glean of you from your posts here, it would be vastly more likely that an Amazonian Yanomamo would be able to grasp calculus right out of the jungle than that you would be able to grok anything having to do with philosophy, comparative religion, logic, theories in empirical science, or anything else requiring deep or abstract thought. But I also note that your abject and utter ignorance is nicely leavened with blatant megalomanic arrogance; you fallciously assert that if an untutored dunce such as yourself cannot make sense of something, that there can be no sense to be found in it. But one should expect moronic statements like that from morons such as yourself who erect temples to their own sacred imbecility and consider all worldly knowledge to be profane.

But perhaps you simply realize that you lack any intellect whatsoever, and that to learn anything at all would be to educate yourself beyond it, but, being egocentric to the point of sociopathic self-absorption, lack the capacity to understand that most others are not similarly cognitively hamstrung.

1037 Salamantis  Fri, May 15, 2009 8:21:49am

I never said that knowing which tubers to eat constituted ignorance (it is obviously practical knowledge for those who indigenous tribal folk who still live in the wilderness)

PIMF

Lose the first 'who.'

1038 scogind  Fri, May 15, 2009 10:38:44am

re: #1036 Salamantis


And I wouldn't expect you to be able to comprehend the phenomenological import of the philosophical passage of mine that you quoted (my BA is in philosophy, and it was the major track in my humanities interdisciplinary MA). From what I can glean of you from your posts here, it would be vastly more likely that an Amazonian Yanomamo would be able to grasp calculus right out of the jungle than that you would be able to grok anything having to do with philosophy, comparative religion, logic, theories in empirical science, or anything else requiring deep or abstract thought. But I also note that your abject and utter ignorance is nicely leavened with blatant megalomanic arrogance; you fallciously assert that if an untutored dunce such as yourself cannot make sense of something, that there can be no sense to be found in it. But one should expect moronic statements like that from morons such as yourself who erect temples to their own sacred imbecility and consider all worldly knowledge to be profane.

But perhaps you simply realize that you lack any intellect whatsoever, and that to learn anything at all would be to educate yourself beyond it, but, being egocentric to the point of sociopathic self-absorption, lack the capacity to understand that most others are not similarly cognitively hamstrung.

Now why in the world would a native south american need to determine the area under a curve?

Untutored, that's for sure. I never needed tutoring, how bout you?

1039 Salamantis  Fri, May 15, 2009 11:02:15am

re: #1038 scogind

Now why in the world would a native south american need to determine the area under a curve?

Yanomamos wouldn't - if they decide to remain in the pre-stone age and never build anything but stick huts. And of course there's no need for you to understand readin', writin', and 'rithmetic, either, if you're just gonna spend your life hanging drywall where you're told (if you can get a lift to and from work, because you sure couldn't pass the written portion of the driver's exam). But if you ever wanna advance to the better-paid position where you measure it out for helpers to cut it to size, and tell other people where and how to hang it, you're gonna need some o' that 'rithmetic stuff...not to mention that geometry stuff.

Untutored, that's for sure. I never needed tutoring, how bout you?

I've been on the other end. I have tutored mathematics and logic, and taught philosophy and comparative religion, at the university level.

But of course you wouldn't need teaching or tutoring if all you did at work was to stick holes in the rows with a dibble for the person behind you to drop seeds into and the person behind that person to pour some water into and the person behind that person to fill in with dirt. In fact, you could do any one of those four jobs. But so can a single machine, which you might be trained to drive, and maybe even to maintain (fuel, oil, water...), but could never repair, much less design and build, without some modicum of mastery of abstract thought.


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