Utah’s Huntsman to Be Ambassador to China

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Politics • Sat May 16, 2009 at 10:04 am PDT • Views: 295

Utah Governor Jon Huntsman Jr., one of the very few top GOP politicians who isn’t a creationist, doesn’t oppose gay rights, and doesn’t issue blanket denials of climate change, will be Barack Obama’s ambassador to China.

President Barack Obama named Republican Utah Gov. Jon M. Huntsman Jr. as his pick for ambassador to China, likely removing one of his strongest potential challengers in the 2012 presidential campaign from the running.

In an unusual Saturday announcement broadcast live on some cable networks, Obama acknowledged that Huntsman’s decision might not be easy for him to explain to the Republican Party.

And Huntsman said he, as a former national co-chairman for Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign, never expected “to be called into action by the person who beat us,” but added that “When the president of the United States asks you step up and serve in a capacity like this, that to me is the end of the conversation and the beginning of the obligation to rise to the challenge.”

The move is freighted with political intrigue. Huntsman, who speaks fluent Mandarin Chinese, quickly emerged after November as one of the leading moderate GOP voices.

Huntsman is often mentioned as a potential Republican presidential candidate in 2012, although some of his advisers think the party’s primary voters will be more prepared to accept his moderate views in 2016 if the party suffers a 1964-like cataclysm at the polls in 2012.

Advertisement

509 comments

  • Comments do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:05:51am

I don't know what to think of this.

2 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:06:26am

Politics.

3 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:06:47am

re: #1 MandyManners

I don't know what to think of this.

Asked and answered.

4 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:07:11am

Keeps him out of the way for the next few years.

5 realwest  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:07:21am

Hmmm - wonder what he'll say to the Chinese about Climate Change?

6 pat  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:07:34am

I don't get it.

7 pegcity  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:07:46am

interesting, think that Obama might be doing this to keep him out of the picture

8 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:08:08am

re: #7 pegcity

interesting, think that Obama might be doing this to keep him out of the picture

That's one of the first things that came to mind.

9 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:08:37am

Not buying into the whole Global warming scam does not make you a knuckle dragging neanderthal.

10 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:09:15am

This is inscrutable to me...
/

11 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:09:29am

re: #1 MandyManners

I don't know either but while the Republican party is batshit insane and impotent the only way to do something constructive is by working with the Dems. It gives him some foreign policy credentials as well as a history of bipartisanship. If the Republicans don't drum him out of the party for being a traitor he could be a good presidential candidate.

12 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:09:31am

re: #4 WhiteRasta

Keeps him out of the way for the next few years.

exactly right...c'ya!...send me a card!

13 pegcity  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:09:41am

re: #9 WhiteRasta

what Charles is saying is their is a difference between Climate Change and Man made global warming.

14 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:09:54am

Maybe obama has realized that we need a grown up in that increasingly important position, so he didn't send a moonbat.

15 nbenhaim  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:09:58am

i don't recall any republicans who are opposed to gay rights. Gays enjoy all rights in this country that the rest of us do. In fact gays have probably prospered far more in this country than in any other country. Just because republicans don't want gays to marry, doesn't mean they are opposed to gay rights.

16 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:10:04am

well aren't we a cynical lot

17 realwest  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:10:20am

re: #4 WhiteRasta
Hey WhiteRasta - long time no see! How are you doing my friend?
Oh and btw, could be a political mistake by Obama; Huntsman already has cred as a Govenor and now will have some foreign policy cred's with what I believe will turn out to be our "opposition" over the next 25 years or so, the same way that the USSR was.
In any event, I was serious about my #5 - do you think he can sell the Chinese on Cap and Trade?!
/

18 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:10:43am

Jon M. Huntsman Sr. is really good friends with Glen Beck. I don't know if the son is.

19 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:11:01am

The little conspiratorialist in me says that it was a way to get him out of the political realm. Then again, he seems well suited for the position; being able to speak fluent Madarin.

20 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:11:18am

Huntsman does seem like an excellent candidate for the job, doesn't he? And he also seems like an good candidate for another job: being president.

It's hard to see how Obama's main motivation for selecting Huntsman could have been anything other than shipping Huntsman to China for a while, and getting him out of the domestic political picture. To use a baseball metaphor, Obama would rather walk Huntsman and pitch to Jindal or Huckabee.

21 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:11:28am

re: #15 nbenhaim

i don't recall any republicans who are opposed to gay rights. Gays enjoy all rights in this country that the rest of us do. In fact gays have probably prospered far more in this country than in any other country. Just because republicans don't want gays to marry, doesn't mean they are opposed to gay rights.

Now, how do you wrap your head around that?

22 Bob Dillon  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:11:59am

From AP yesterday:

Obama's 2008 campaign manager, David Plouffe, said Huntsman is a Republican who "seems to understand the party has to adjust-not stubbornly believe that everything is OK and it is the country that has to change."

Huntsman's positions on the environment and other issues have led some to consider him a potential contender for president in 2012.

He signed an initiative that would set a regional cap-and-trade effort to reduce global warming. In a 2006 speech at Shanghai Normal University, Huntsman spoke of the need for China and the U.S. to work together on environmental issues.

"The United States and China must be good examples and stewards of the Earth. We must match economic progress with environmental stewardship. The effects of industrialization are felt worldwide," Huntsman said then.

23 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:12:01am

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Jon M. Huntsman Sr. is really good friends with Glen Beck. I don't know if the son is.

even Rasputin had friends...maybe not tho

24 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:12:22am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

I don't know either but while the Republican party is batshit insane and impotent the only way to do something constructive is by working with the Dems. It gives him some foreign policy credentials as well as a history of bipartisanship. If the Republicans don't drum him out of the party for being a traitor he could be a good presidential candidate.

He has stolen Obama's presidential game-plan.

25 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:12:35am

It has nothing to do with "getting him out of the way." Huntsman is already persona non grata with large segments of the GOP, because he's too moderate for them.

Michigan GOP official cancels Huntsman event in protest.

Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr.’s appearance at a Michigan county Republican Party event was scrapped this week after the county chairwoman said that hosting the moderate Utah governor would mean abandoning the party’s conservative principles.

Kent County Republican Party Chairwoman Joanne Voorhees abruptly canceled the party fundraiser scheduled for Saturday.

“The voters want and expect us to stand on principle and return to our roots. Unfortunately, by holding an event with Governor Huntsman, we would be doing the exact opposite,” Voorhees wrote in an e-mail quoted in The Grand Rapids Press .

Voorhees did not specify which issues she felt were contrary to the party’s principles and did not return messages left at the party headquarters and on her cell phone.

The group Campaign for Michigan Families praised the cancellation, attributing it to Huntsman’s support of civil unions, and urged the Oakland and Kalamazoo county parties, where Huntsman is also scheduled to speak this weekend, to do the same.

“Presumably he is testing the waters [for a presidential run] and we hope he realizes now the waters in Michigan will be hazardous to someone who endorses the homosexual activist political agenda,” said campaign director Gary Glenn.

26 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:12:38am

re: #15 nbenhaim

Just because republicans don't want gays to marry, doesn't mean they are opposed to gay rights.

It means they are opposed to one particular gay right. If one doesn't want gays to marry, then one doesn't want gays to have the right to marry.

27 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:12:50am

This is a shrewd political maneuver on O's part. Neutralize a potential opponent.

28 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:13:31am

re: #19 MacDuff

The little conspiratorialist in me says that it was a way to get him out of the political realm. Then again, he seems well suited for the position; being able to speak fluent Madarin.

Crazy!

29 abolitionist  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:14:21am

Obama's campaign manager fears Jon Huntsman the most in 2012

Perhops he's being kicked upstairs. Ambassadorships tend to be long-term, no?

30 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:14:36am

re: #13 pegcity

Yes. Climate changes all the time, that's how the Great Lakes etc came into being. There is no denying that fact.

31 Afton  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:14:36am

We need another moderate Republican like we need a hole in the head. Good riddance to this chump - if you're positions and behavior are rewarded by Barack Obama, then you need to get out of the Republican party and/or take a slow boat to China.

32 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:15:05am

re: #25 Charles

This is not going to be a credit to his (Huntsman) ledger with even some moderates.

33 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:15:09am

He'll switch over to the Dems.

34 gander  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:15:40am

The Mandarin Candidate.

35 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:15:54am

re: #12 albusteve

See you in JA next month, dude. Let's drink rum and eat jerk pork...

36 abolitionist  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:16:19am

re: #25 Charles

/nevermind (Emily mode)

37 Bob Dillon  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:16:26am

More: However, Huntsman has drawn the most attention for stating he favors civil unions for gay couples even though he backed a state constitutional amendment passed in 2004 that prohibited same-sex marriage.

Huntsman's comments on civil unions drew the ire of conservatives in his own state and elsewhere.

Officials in Michigan last month canceled a GOP county fundraiser where Huntsman was to speak; they said he had abandoned important party principles.

Huntsman's career began as a staff assistant in the Ronald Reagan administration and he also served as ambassador to Singapore under President George H.W. Bush and as a deputy U.S. trade representative and U.S. trade ambassador under President George W. Bush.

Utah's only Democratic member of Congress, U.S. Rep. Jim Matheson, said he was pleased with the appointment. "It's a great bipartisan appointment by the president," he said.

Before becoming governor in 2005, Huntsman made millions serving as chairman and CEO of his family chemical company.

38 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:16:43am

re: #25 Charles

It has nothing to do with "getting him out of the way." Huntsman is already persona non grata with large segments of the GOP, because he's too moderate for them.

Michigan GOP official cancels Huntsman event in protest.

I had forgotten about that. It's a good point that Huntsman is in the doghouse with the far right, and that would make it hard for him to win a Republican presidential nomination in the future. But all the general election polls from the 2008 election had suggested that McCain, the moderate, had the best chance of beating Clinton or Obama. I think that the Democratic party's long-term goals are best served by helping the GOP along its self-destructive path of weakening and disenfranchising all the moderates.

39 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:17:05am

re: #29 abolitionist

Obama's campaign manager fears Jon Huntsman the most in 2012

Perhops he's being kicked upstairs. Ambassadorships tend to be long-term, no?

my uncle was ambassador to the Bahamas...for one year

40 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:18:23am

re: #39 albusteve

I thought ambassadorships were for the term of the serving President, in most cases.

41 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:18:29am

re: #35 WhiteRasta

See you in JA next month, dude. Let's drink rum and eat jerk pork...

ouch!...may the Force be with you amigo...I'm getting a plan together

42 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:18:37am

re: #37 Bobibutu

More: However, Huntsman has drawn the most attention for stating he favors civil unions for gay couples even though he backed a state constitutional amendment passed in 2004 that prohibited same-sex marriage.

Huntsman's comments on civil unions drew the ire of conservatives in his own state and elsewhere.

Officials in Michigan last month canceled a GOP county fundraiser where Huntsman was to speak; they said he had abandoned important party principles.

Huntsman's career began as a staff assistant in the Ronald Reagan administration and he also served as ambassador to Singapore under President George H.W. Bush and as a deputy U.S. trade representative and U.S. trade ambassador under President George W. Bush.

Utah's only Democratic member of Congress, U.S. Rep. Jim Matheson, said he was pleased with the appointment. "It's a great bipartisan appointment by the president," he said.

Before becoming governor in 2005, Huntsman made millions serving as chairman and CEO of his family chemical company.

This Independent Conservative doesn't see why the man's position is wrong.

43 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:18:57am

re: #38 Last Mohican

I think that the Democratic party's long-term goals are best served by helping the GOP along its self-destructive path of weakening and disenfranchising all the moderates.

I don't think the GOP needs much help in that direction.

44 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:19:30am

re: #39 albusteve

my uncle was ambassador to the Bahamas...for one year

Now THAT'S a job that I could become devoted to!

45 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:19:37am

Where was Huntsman on November 22, 1963? I am not trying to imply anything... I am just curious.

/Dream job for someone who cares enough to learn fluent Mandarin Chinese.

46 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:19:39am

re: #17 realwest

Hey West long time. No there is chance China will go for cap and trade... ever.

47 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:20:11am

re: #40 WhiteRasta

I thought ambassadorships were for the term of the serving President, in most cases.

he did it as a favor...interim more or less...Jack Olsen, he did all kinds of stuff for the GOP

48 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:21:41am

re: #44 MacDuff

Now THAT'S a job that I could become devoted to!

my folks went down to visit...it was quite memorable I guess

49 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:21:57am

re: #47 albusteve

Hey, I'll be ambassador to Jamaica as a favor, if someone needs me to do them a favor.

50 gmsc  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:22:05am

re: #5 realwest

Hmmm - wonder what he'll say to the Chinese about Climate Change?

Maybe he can bring us the secret to that special Chinese-type of pollution that exempts them from the Kyoto treaty.

51 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:23:11am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

It gives him some foreign policy credentials as well as a history of bipartisanship.

I don't know if the history of bipartisanship matters much, but your point about foreign policy is a good one. It seems like one issue that tends to come up when former governors run for president is their lack of foreign policy experience. Being the ambassador to China is outstanding foreign policy experience, particularly as China continues to advance rapidly in power and importance. Sending Huntsman to China might get him out of the picture for a while, but in the long run it could make him stronger.

52 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:23:46am

re: #49 WhiteRasta

Hey, I'll be ambassador to Jamaica as a favor, if someone needs me to do them a favor.

Considering your moniker, I thought you already were!

53 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:24:07am

re: #49 WhiteRasta

Hey, I'll be ambassador to Jamaica as a favor, if someone needs me to do them a favor.

I would too if I could live in Port Antonio instead of Kingston

54 Bob Dillon  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:24:22am

re: #42 FurryOldGuyJeans

I have no problem save his stance on "cap and trade". A good pick.

55 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #51 Last Mohican

It wasn't done to burnish his credentials, unless the Dems are planning to use him somehow.

56 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:25:41am

re: #55 FightingBack

It wasn't done to burnish his credentials, unless the Dems are planning to use him somehow.

I agree, in fact, I think it was done largely to get him out of the picture. I'm just saying, in the long run, it could strengthen Huntsman.

57 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:25:58am

re: #49 WhiteRasta

Hey, I'll be ambassador to Jamaica as a favor, if someone needs me to do them a favor.

I wouldn't mind being Ambassador to Red America. Blue America is getting icky.

58 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:26:06am

re: #51 Last Mohican

I don't know if the history of bipartisanship matters much, but your point about foreign policy is a good one. It seems like one issue that tends to come up when former governors run for president is their lack of foreign policy experience. Being the ambassador to China is outstanding foreign policy experience, particularly as China continues to advance rapidly in power and importance. Sending Huntsman to China might get him out of the picture for a while, but in the long run it could make him stronger.

he could be pitched right to the forefront soon too...lot's of airtime when China moves against our interests

59 Bob Dillon  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:26:07am

re: #51 Last Mohican

Huntsman's career began as a staff assistant in the Ronald Reagan administration and he also served as ambassador to Singapore under President George H.W. Bush and as a deputy U.S. trade representative and U.S. trade ambassador under President George W. Bush.

60 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:26:52am

re: #56 Last Mohican

Yes. I agree. Replace Biden with unbeatable VP support for '12?

61 Desert Dog  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:27:19am

re: #27 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is a shrewd political maneuver on O's part. Neutralize a potential opponent.

So, why is Huntsman going along with it? Ambassador to China is a good jig. He can use it as his foreign policy experience when he comes back to run against his "former boss"?

62 doppelganglander  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:27:59am

re: #56 Last Mohican

I agree, in fact, I think it was done largely to get him out of the picture. I'm just saying, in the long run, it could strengthen Huntsman.

I think you're right. Huntsman's chances in 2016 will be much better than 2012. International experience will only enhance his resume.

63 dapperdave  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:28:15am

In light of Charles comment #25 I would think that the Democrats are trying to get another RINO to jump ship.

64 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:28:39am

re: #61 Desert Dog

So, why is Huntsman going along with it? Ambassador to China is a good jig. He can use it as his foreign policy experience when he comes back to run against his "former boss"?

I wonder if he felt unwelcome in the national party ? Maybe by working successfully with BHO for a few years, he'll either gain some bipartisan points or switch parties for a 2016 run.

65 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:29:18am

re: #61 Desert Dog

Is there a history of folks coming back to run against their former bosses/ patrons?
(Not snarking, just asking)

66 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:29:30am

One reason why Huntsman might be going along with this is because it's become very clear to him that with the current attitudes of the GOP, he doesn't stand a chance of being the nominee in 2012. And when your own party is ostracizing you, a plum ambassador job might not look too shabby.

67 irongrampa  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:30:04am

Confused here. If the GOP is being marginalized by the fringe,who then,in the available people, is the choice to defang this marginalization?

I read this blog daily, and have noted the criticism pertaining to the problem, but haven't seen much of a solution offered, mostly just bemoaning the fact.

I understand the problem, so does anyone have some ideas about WHO would be the appropriate spokesperson/candidate?

I'm serious here, and value the inputs of the commenters.

68 dapperdave  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:30:44am

re: #66 Charles

Ahhh, good point!

69 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:30:45am

re: #66 Charles

A way of sitting out the fray, and returning when the dust clears?

70 Desert Dog  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:30:49am

re: #64 avanti

I wonder if he felt unwelcome in the national party ? Maybe by working successfully with BHO for a few years, he'll either gain some bipartisan points or switch parties for a 2016 run.

I don't see that happening. He is popular in Utah and win anything right now. Usually, the ship jumpers are opportunists that see their fortunes shift. He is a moderate Republican, not a moderate Democrat. But, In this day and age, who knows?

71 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:31:18am

re: #67 irongrampa

Before today I might have named Jon Huntsman Jr.

72 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:31:24am

re: #51 Last Mohican

Good points. I wouldn't sell the bipartisan thing short though. I know bipartisan has become a dirty word it's still an important selling point to swing voters like myself. I like to see a candidate who will do what's right and get things accomplished rather that blindly following partisan dogma.

73 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:31:48am

The Huntsmans are Mormon. Will there be a hue and cry over that like the Donks did over Romney?

74 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:32:17am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

You vote?

75 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:32:52am

re: #73 rightymouse

The Huntsmans are Mormon. Will there be a hue and cry over that like the Donks did over Romney?

Not in China.

76 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:33:23am

re: #64 avanti

I wonder if he felt unwelcome in the national party ? Maybe by working successfully with BHO for a few years, he'll either gain some bipartisan points or switch parties for a 2016 run.

I doubt he'll switch parties. I think you are just being jealous that he's not a Dem. :D

I like him a lot - he's a moderate, AND he's a progressive metal fan. Sort of a dream candidate. I just hope people get over their prejudices about the LDS church.

77 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:33:33am

Last Sunday Chrissy Matthews asked his panel who they saw as up-and-comers in the Republican Party. One pundit said Huntsman. So I figured he must be another kook, if one of Matthews's pundits is pushing him. Glad to see I was wrong.

78 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:33:40am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Good points. I wouldn't sell the bipartisan thing short though. I know bipartisan has become a dirty word it's still an important selling point to swing voters like myself. I like to see a candidate who will do what's right and get things accomplished rather that blindly following partisan dogma.

The Democrats imploded after the Clinton administration. Perhaps the Republicans will also come up with someone out of nowhere.

79 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:33:41am

Well, as long as he remembers that he's a Representative of the United States to China and not a representative of China to the United States, he'll be a good pick.

80 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:34:08am

re: #75 FightingBack

Not in China.

Maybe. China isn't exactly open to Christians.

81 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:34:16am

re: #67 irongrampa

I understand the problem, so does anyone have some ideas about WHO would be the appropriate spokesperson/candidate?

I'm serious here, and value the inputs of the commenters.


I think Rudy could step up and get the party back on course but he doesn't really seem interested and I don't think they'd listen to him anyways. I think the whole Tea Party thing and Ron Paul nonsense needs to run its course. In a decade or so the party should be back on track.

82 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:34:25am

re: #76 Cattt

I doubt he'll switch parties. I think you are just being jealous that he's not a Dem. :D

I like him a lot - he's a moderate, AND he's a progressive metal fan. Sort of a dream candidate. I just hope people get over their prejudices about the LDS church.

what is prog metal?...certainly not some type of music

83 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:34:56am

re: #74 FightingBack

I sat out this time although I was a Republican leaner. I'm now leaning Dem.

84 nyc redneck  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:35:00am

re: #73 rightymouse

The Huntsmans are Mormon. Will there be a hue and cry over that like the Donks did over Romney?

oh no,
donks are ok w/ mormons if the mormon is a donk or donkish.
the msm will like it too,
how interesting.

85 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:35:12am

re: #76 Cattt

I doubt he'll switch parties. I think you are just being jealous that he's not a Dem. :D

I like him a lot - he's a moderate, AND he's a progressive metal fan. Sort of a dream candidate. I just hope people get over their prejudices about the LDS church.

What is progressive metal? I've never heard that term.

86 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:35:45am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

I sat out this time although I was a Republican leaner. I'm now leaning Dem.


Well...blow me over with a feather. Would never have guessed that.

/

87 INFDL  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:36:13am

I don't think this is some cold, calculated political knee-smack. Huntsman has business cred in asia, being the former CEO of the largest private chem company, and fluency in multiple Asian dialects. I think it's that simple.

I'm a Utard (local for Utahn), and I've been very impressed with this cat. He just pushed through, arm-in-arm with the LDS Church, the most sweeping liquor reform in the history of this state. Probably doesn't sound like much to most of you, but a big deal for those of us who like something a little stiffer than a grape knee-high with you snack, as Utah is saddled with a fully 'nationalized' libation industry. Probably the most repressive in the country on a state-wide level.

I don't know if he'll ever do anything on the national stage, with the GOP's insane evangelical contingent (Mormons? Run away!) running a major part of the show, but this guy is sharp as hell. He makes Romney look like a has-been.

88 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:36:19am

re: #85 LGoPs

What is progressive metal? I've never heard that term.

Gold, baby!

89 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:36:43am

re: #70 Desert Dog

I don't see that happening. He is popular in Utah and win anything right now. Usually, the ship jumpers are opportunists that see their fortunes shift. He is a moderate Republican, not a moderate Democrat. But, In this day and age, who knows?

From the little I know about him, the party label means very little. If he can appeal to the middle and right, and even pick off a leftie like me, he has a shot. Too soon to tell how it will turn out, but might be a smart move by him and the POTUS.

90 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:36:57am

re: #84 nyc redneck

oh no,
donks are ok w/ mormons if the mormon is a donk or donkish.
the msm will like it too,
how interesting.

Yeah..like Harry Reid.

91 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:38:34am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

I sat out this time although I was a Republican leaner. I'm now leaning Dem.

lean?...don't lean too far, you'll fall over...I'm just an ordinary three legged stool guy...liberals and right wing republicans disgust me equally

92 afton  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:38:44am

re: #67 irongrampa

Confused here. If the GOP is being marginalized by the fringe,who then,in the available people, is the choice to defang this marginalization?

I read this blog daily, and have noted the criticism pertaining to the problem, but haven't seen much of a solution offered, mostly just bemoaning the fact.

I understand the problem, so does anyone have some ideas about WHO would be the appropriate spokesperson/candidate?

I'm serious here, and value the inputs of the commenters.

It's some peoples' aim to criticize, expose and eventually take down - remember the issues with Mitt Romney during the primaries - he spoke of numerous conservative positions and the strategy against him was to attack the implausibility of him being elected due to being a Mormon. Huckabee wasn't attacked because of his fiscal ideas, he was attacked because he had the audacity of having a cross positioned behind him in a photo. The Left works this way all the time - there is no legitimate argument of basic principles and positions...it's a tactic of zeroing in on a controversial topic and putting that under the microscope.

Your confusion may lie in the fact that perhaps the criticisms here don't also reflect any suggestions because the solution to some may simply to decimate the party with fringe attacks and keep the Left in power. If someone believes basically in every tenet of the Left save a couple of issues, they usually are going to stay on the Left

93 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:38:53am

re: #86 rightymouse

Yeah, the Republicans lost me. They're drumming out all the moderates now anyways so I makes sense for me to look elsewhere.

94 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:39:20am

re: #78 debutaunt

The Democrats imploded after the Clinton administration. Perhaps the Republicans will also come up with someone out of nowhere.

I see your point. The problem is that the republicans that took control were, by and large, responsible adults. The implosion of the republican party is dangerous because that leaves an irresponsible democrat party in charge. Kind of like tossing the keys to the Mercedes over to a bunch of drunken teenagers.

95 Rexatosis  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:39:55am

An excellent choice for ambassador, one that should have been made several months ago (ambassadors to Lichtenstein can be made whenever, those to Great Powers should be done in a timely and deliberative manner.). Politically for Pres. Obama it means Huntsman is effectively off the Pres. and VP lists for 2012. If Pres. Obama made the decision to choose Gov. Huntsman because the Gov. is the best for the job it will prove to be a benefit to the US, if however Pres. Obama made the choice to ship a potential political rival on the proverbial "slow boat to China" it is doubtful the Pres. will give his new ambassador much time re: the issues facing the Sino-American relationship and that will not serve either country well (given Pres. Obama's history with regard to political rivals this may well be a repeat of past practices in a slightly new form.). Time will tell us if this is a good choice.

96 afton  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:40:58am

re: #77 wrenchwench

Last Sunday Chrissy Matthews asked his panel who they saw as up-and-comers in the Republican Party. One pundit said Huntsman. So I figured he must be another kook, if one of Matthews's pundits is pushing him. Glad to see I was wrong.

I'd say if the guy is leading the charge for Republican coddling of gays and climate change, your first instinct that he is a kook is right.

97 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:41:47am

re: #67 irongrampa

Confused here. If the GOP is being marginalized by the fringe,who then,in the available people, is the choice to defang this marginalization?

I read this blog daily, and have noted the criticism pertaining to the problem, but haven't seen much of a solution offered, mostly just bemoaning the fact.

I understand the problem, so does anyone have some ideas about WHO would be the appropriate spokesperson/candidate?

I'm serious here, and value the inputs off the commenters.

There's been talk here and elsewhere of this and I would wholeheartedly support it, but after I read this last night it seems that some on the right aren't the only ones thinking about it.

Run, Dick, Run

"The former vice president's current media blitz begs a question: could he actually be planning a presidential run? Here are 8 signs you might be seeing "Cheney 2012."

98 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:42:01am
[...] one of the very few top GOP politicians who isn’t a creationist, doesn’t oppose gay rights, and doesn’t issue blanket denials of climate change [...]

Not much of a Republican by today's standards, is he?

99 lightspeed  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:42:14am

If he ever wanted to be a leader in the GOP, he has just thrown that out the window. A leader does not abandon his own party to sign on with the most radical leftist administration in our lifetimes. Even if the Obama administration were more moderate it would be a bad idea. You can't lead a party by helping out the other side, especially when your own party is going down the drain. He is toast in the GOP.

100 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:42:19am

re: #76 Cattt

I doubt he'll switch parties. I think you are just being jealous that he's not a Dem. :D

I like him a lot - he's a moderate, AND he's a progressive metal fan. Sort of a dream candidate. I just hope people get over their prejudices about the LDS church.

Not jealous, I'll switch parties based on the candidate. The problem may be that he is only a dream candidate if you are a moderate.

101 Miss Molly  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:42:33am

The most important thing Obama cares about is -- well Obama. Maybe sending Huntsman to China will get him out of the way for Obama while Obama can claim that he has Republicans working with him -- he certainly has been trying to get some Republican to work in his administration in some office. Bottom line -- Obama worries first and last about himself.

102 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:42:55am

From the Hot Air thread on this story...

Huntsman today said he “never expected” as national co-chair of John McCain’s presidential campaign to be standing there. But when the president asks for service, he said, “that to me is the end of the conversation.” Huntsman said first in Mandarin, then English, a Chinese saying: “Together we work. Together we progress.”


He seems like a good egg and a patriot.

103 zeebeach  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:43:34am

Charles, can you provide a list of who you're referring to by "top GOP politicians"? I'd like to confirm that they're (mostly) creationists, with only a very few that are not. If you can't provide a list, can you give me your criteria for inclusion in the "top GOP politician" category? Then I can compile the list myself. Thank you.

104 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #85 LGoPs

What is progressive metal? I've never heard that term.

There's no such thing as progressive metal. Metal achieved perfection in 1984 with the release of Iron Maiden's Powerslave.

105 shiplord kirel  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:44:49am

Prediction for 2012

The Zero will dump Biden for someone younger.
The kook-dominated GOP will end up running someone like Huckabee, with the loathesome opportunist Goodhair Perry as a sop to the big contributors.
The Zero is re-elected by 62-38

Kook-mongers don't care if the GOP never wins another election, so long as it remains in existence as a marketing aid for their commercial kookery. Pat Robertson, Glen Beck, the Discotute and the all others in that zoo can wax fat and rich from a 25% share of the political market.

106 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:45:00am

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the Republicans lost me. They're drumming out all the moderates now anyways so I makes sense for me to look elsewhere.


The Dems lost me after 9/11 and I will never go back. They stand for nothing productive or meaningful. Just a lot of nanny-state BS. They could give a rat's rear end about the citizenry, our freedoms and liberty.

107 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:45:02am

re: #96 afton

I'd say if the guy is leading the charge for Republican coddling of gays and climate change, your first instinct that he is a kook is right.

I'm with Dick Cheney on gay marriage, "Freedom is for everyone." I guess I'm a kook too. And so's Cheney.

108 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:45:07am

re: #103 zeebeach

Make your own list.

109 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:45:15am

re: #97 pink freud

"The former vice president's current media blitz begs a question: could he actually be planning a presidential run? Here are 8 signs you might be seeing "Cheney 2012."

I've spent the last minute trying to think of a Republican who would be less likely to win a general election than Dick Cheney. I can't think of one.

110 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:45:56am

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the Republicans lost me. They're drumming out all the moderates now anyways so I makes sense for me to look elsewhere.

*Scratching my head*...was it that fire breather McCain that lost you? I'm not trying to be sarcastic...just wondering what drove you away and is apparently making the most radically leftist government we've ever had attractive to you.

111 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:46:03am

re: #97 pink freud

There's been talk here and elsewhere of this and I would wholeheartedly support it, but after I read this last night it seems that some on the right aren't the only ones thinking about it.

Run, Dick, Run

"The former vice president's current media blitz begs a question: could he actually be planning a presidential run? Here are 8 signs you might be seeing "Cheney 2012."

You must be joking .

112 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:46:11am

re: #104 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

There's no such thing as progressive metal. Metal achieved perfection in 1984 with the release of Iron Maiden's Powerslave.

metal is evil...you should not listen to it...full of subliminal messages

113 lightspeed  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:46:46am

re: #109 Last Mohican

I've spent the last minute trying to think of a Republican who would be less likely to win a general election than Dick Cheney. I can't think of one.

Abraham Lincoln. He's dead.

114 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:47:23am

re: #112 albusteve

metal is evil...you should not listen to it...full of subliminal messages

They're the only things drowning out the voices in my head!

115 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:47:25am

re: #109 Last Mohican

In some ways - and in today's political climate - I can see your point. However, who knows what three years will bring and what the tone of the country will be then? It's not an impossibility.

116 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:47:32am

re: #109 Last Mohican

I've spent the last minute trying to think of a Republican who would be less likely to win a general election than Dick Cheney. I can't think of one.

In fact, I'll go one further than that. The mere presence of Dick Cheney on the stage, debating other Republican presidential primary candidates, would hand at least 10 percentage points to whomever the Democratic candidate turned out to be.

117 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:48:00am

re: #113 lightspeed

Abraham Lincoln. He's dead.

But he's from Illinois, so that shouldn't be a big deal.

118 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:48:04am

re: #113 lightspeed

Abraham Lincoln. He's dead.

Lincoln's corpse would win over Cheney in a run-off.

119 shiplord kirel  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:48:09am

re: #109 Last Mohican

I've spent the last minute trying to think of a Republican who would be less likely to win a general election than Dick Cheney. I can't think of one.

We could do worse than Darth Cheney, and probably will.

120 afton  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:48:13am

re: #109 Last Mohican

I've spent the last minute trying to think of a Republican who would be less likely to win a general election than Dick Cheney. I can't think of one.

You're right. I think you should go with your first instinct and back Hillary in 2012.

121 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:48:23am

re: #109 Last Mohican

I've spent the last minute trying to think of a Republican who would be less likely to win a general election than Dick Cheney. I can't think of one.

Alan Keyes

122 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:48:43am

re: #113 lightspeed

Abraham Lincoln. He's dead.

I acknowledge that he's dead, but I still think Lincoln would have a better chance than Cheney.

123 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:48:53am

re: #111 avanti

You must be joking .

Nope.

124 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:49:02am

re: #110 LGoPs

I was not a fan of McCain but was willing to hold my nose and vote for him anyways. Palin was why I decided to sit out the election. She wouldn't have been too bad but McCain's age a health made it an issue for me.
After the election the purge of the moderates, the mainstreaming of Ron Paul and Glenn Beck, the conspiracy theories, etc have been a big turn off to me.

125 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:50:31am

re: #109 Last Mohican

I've spent the last minute trying to think of a Republican who would be less likely to win a general election than Dick Cheney. I can't think of one.

You're probably right but I think that is more a reflection of how soft headed the American people have become than it is on Cheney himself. I find him to be a refreshingly adult, no nonsense politician.

126 lightspeed  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:50:37am

re: #122 Last Mohican

I acknowledge that he's dead, but I still think Lincoln would have a better chance than Cheney.

Hmm, you could be right. Maybe Nixon? That would be a close race. Was Jeffery Dahmer a Republican?

127 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:51:14am

re: #116 Last Mohican

In fact, I'll go one further than that. The mere presence of Dick Cheney on the stage, debating other Republican presidential primary candidates, would hand at least 10 percentage points to whomever the Democratic candidate turned out to be.

The Democrats should have Cheney on the payroll, keep him talking. I actually half expect Bush to ask him politely to shut up for the good of the party.

128 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:51:18am

re: #85 LGoPs

What is progressive metal? I've never heard that term.

129 IslandLibertarian  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:51:42am

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, unless you can send them to China.

"0" never surprises me...never fails to deliver...

130 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:52:07am

re: #127 avanti

The Democrats should have Cheney on the payroll, keep him talking. I actually half expect Bush to ask him politely to shut up for the good of the party.

that's ridiculous...is he a fraud or a liar?

131 zeebeach  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:52:42am

re: #108 Charles

I will do so, happily, but if I don't know what your criteria is, how can I know that my list concurs with yours?

132 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:53:07am

re: #127 avanti

The Democrats should have Cheney on the payroll, keep him talking. I actually half expect Bush to ask him politely to shut up for the good of the party.

No, that would be the large assortment of right wing kooks that could do the party good by remaining quiet. Cheney's no kook.

133 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I was not a fan of McCain but was willing to hold my nose and vote for him anyways. Palin was why I decided to sit out the election. She wouldn't have been too bad but McCain's age a health made it an issue for me.
After the election the purge of the moderates, the mainstreaming of Ron Paul and Glenn Beck, the conspiracy theories, etc have been a big turn off to me.

Good Lord.

/Your train of thought just derailed into a migraine for moi.

134 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:53:27am

re: #99 lightspeed

If he ever wanted to be a leader in the GOP, he has just thrown that out the window. A leader does not abandon his own party to sign on with the most radical leftist administration in our lifetimes. Even if the Obama administration were more moderate it would be a bad idea. You can't lead a party by helping out the other side, especially when your own party is going down the drain. He is toast in the GOP.

He was already toast in the GOP, for not being a wingnut.

And that's why the GOP is toast.

135 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:53:30am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I was not a fan of McCain but was willing to hold my nose and vote for him anyways. Palin was why I decided to sit out the election. She wouldn't have been too bad but McCain's age a health made it an issue for me.
After the election the purge of the moderates, the mainstreaming of Ron Paul and Glenn Beck, the conspiracy theories, etc have been a big turn off to me.

To each his own I guess. Palin is precisely what gave me passion. Hope you're happy with what you're sitting it out helped give us.

136 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:53:50am

re: #128 Cattt

I made to 21 sec...that was really awful

137 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:54:05am

re: #112 albusteve

And if you play it backwards...

138 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:54:42am

re: #123 pink freud

Nope.

OK, different strokes and all that, but he's VERY unpopular.

139 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:54:44am

If this becomes a Cheney thread, I'm going to link semi-nude pics of Lenny Kravitz. Be warned. You know who you are.

140 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:55:06am

re: #139 Cattt

If this becomes a Cheney thread, I'm going to link semi-nude pics of Lenny Kravitz. Be warned. You know who you are.

Post 'em!

141 lightspeed  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:55:15am

re: #134 Cato the Elder

He was already toast in the GOP, for not being a wingnut.

And that's why the GOP is toast.

Then why aren't the Dems toast as well? They have quite a few wingnuts, many of them part of the current administration.

142 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:55:33am

re: #138 avanti

OK, different strokes and all that, but he's VERY unpopular.

Not with me. It'd be a heck of a lot easier for me to vote for him than McCain.

143 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:55:45am

re: #137 WhiteRasta

And if you play it backwards...

turn me on dead man...good lord...gimme a little Toots anyday

144 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:04am

re: #1 MandyManners

I don't know what to think of this.

I suspect you'll see a lot of reaching across the aisle over the next few months, building coalitions with moderates to gain support for the upcoming challenges of universal health care and social security reform, in addition to raising taxes to (partially) pay for it all. The remaining holdouts will be lumped in with the kooks and losers of the religious right. In effect, look for 0bama to gut and divide the GOP.

I've been saying for months that the GOP ought to be doing something similar - reaching across the aisle to build coalitions with conservative-minded Democrats who are shaky on their own party's lack of fiscal policy. We may have lost that opportunity. It may be time to forget about 2012 and start thinking in terms of 2016 if the party doesn't work to overcome the existing bitter partisanship plaguing the nation. Right now, we're morphing into the party of Gibbs, Keyes and the rest of the "Hee Haw!" crowd - a sideshow act worthy of derision and little else.

145 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:14am

re: #136 albusteve

I made to 21 sec...that was really awful

You should stick it out. You might have liked one of the groups - there are 18 clips. :D

146 irongrampa  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:25am

re: #97 pink freud

According to the "insiders"--as I read somewhere, he's doing great damage to the party with his current stand. Total bullshit, I say. The country could do much worse than electing Cheney, imho.

Just look at the current President.

147 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:27am

re: #139 Cattt

If this becomes a Cheney thread, I'm going to link semi-nude pics of Lenny Kravitz. Be warned. You know who you are.

Wait. Punishment or reward? ;-)

148 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:32am

re: #141 lightspeed

Much better PR, and lying. See the Gitmo tribunal restorations.

149 afton  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:43am

re: #138 avanti

OK, different strokes and all that, but he's VERY unpopular.

yes, he's very unpopular with the Socialists in America and to some of us, that's a GOOD thing.

150 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:45am

re: #137 WhiteRasta

And if you play it backwards...

Do you know what happens when you play country music backwards?

151 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:52am

re: #144 SixDegrees

Who's Gibbs?

152 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:56:52am

re: #138 avanti

OK, different strokes and all that, but he's VERY unpopular.

you could say that about...oh...Jesus for example

153 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:57:01am

Cheney has ongoing heart problems.

I think a 3 legged paralyzed donkey would have a better chance.

154 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:57:28am

Here's the insiders picks.

GOP POTUS.

155 nyc redneck  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:57:32am

re: #115 pink freud

In some ways - and in today's political climate - I can see your point. However, who knows what three years will bring and what the tone of the country will be then? It's not an impossibility.

that's so true,
there could actually come a time when cheney looks pretty damn good.
i don't discount anything at this point.

156 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:57:40am

re: #150 Truck Monkey

No!

157 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:58:21am

re: #152 albusteve

you could say that about...oh...Jesus for example

Yes, because when contemplating Dick Cheney, the comparison to Jesus inevitably leaps to mind.

158 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:58:30am

re: #145 Cattt

You should stick it out. You might have liked one of the groups - there are 18 clips. :D

my ears are too sweet now

159 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:59:43am

re: #156 WhiteRasta

No!

You get your Dog back, and your wife back, and your Pick up Truck back, and your trailer back.

160 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:59:50am

re: #152 albusteve

you could say that about...oh...Jesus for example

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

161 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:00:15am

re: #128 Cattt

[Video]

Hell "Yes" already did that, a long time ago.

162 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:00:29am

re: #140 MandyManners

Post 'em!

I also found some screen caps of Alex Skarsgard in the shower. Wow.

163 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:00:36am

re: #157 Cato the Elder

Yes, because when contemplating Dick Cheney, the comparison to Jesus inevitably leaps to mind.

it's true Cheney is a better dresser...aside from that Cheney is despised by the people that hate him right?...to say he is VERY unpopular means VERY little without some political perspective

164 Mr Secul  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:00:39am

re: #34 gander

The Mandarin Candidate.

As longs as he doesn't start playing Solitaire...

165 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:00:47am

re: #144 SixDegrees

Correction:

Right now, we're morphing into the party of Gibbs Beck, Keyes and the rest of the "Hee Haw!" crowd - a sideshow act worthy of derision and little else.

166 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:00:53am

re: #138 avanti

OK, different strokes and all that, but he's VERY unpopular.

He's unpopular with soft headed people that hoover up the MFM's propoganda.

167 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:01:04am

re: #160 avanti

Depends on what you call "helping."

168 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:01:15am

re: #146 irongrampa

According to the "insiders"--as I read somewhere, he's doing great damage to the party with his current stand. Total bullshit, I say. The country could do much worse than electing Cheney, imho.

Just look at the current President.

After three years of 0bama bringing this country to its knees, Cheney may look entirely different to some folks than he does now.

It will take a strong person to help this country regain it's footing.

And don't forget the Alinsky model: Pick the Target, Freeze It, Personalize It and Polarize It.’

No one ever accused the Dems of not thinking ahead. Getting out in front of Cheney this early on is what I would expect from them if they perceive him to be a threat in 2012. The very presence of that article on that leftist site tells me a lot.

169 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:01:25am

re: #160 avanti

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

Fuck you.

170 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:01:37am

re: #151 MandyManners

Who's Gibbs?

My bad - meant Beck. Doing four things at once today.

171 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:01:43am

re: #147 pink freud

Wait. Punishment or reward? ;-)

For some - punishment. Especially the one on the fur rug. :D You know the routine - "oh no - my eyes!" guys who think they'll go gay if they see a hot guy.

172 Rexatosis  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:02:07am

Just a brief comment on the demise of the GOP in the Northeast since I live there. No Republican can survive in the Northeast if they are economically liberal, corrupt, or pissing away their time on b.s. In other words the GOP has to stop nominating morons who claim to be economic conservatives while being sued by Atlantic City casinos for outstanding unpaid debts (CT US Senate Race 2006), having GOP state officials sent to federal prison (pick any recent Republican from Waterbury, CT) or spend their time focusing on whether Roger Clemens got steriods shot in his ass rather than pay attention to the markets (Chris Shays). They also cannot be seen as Socially Conservative and anti-Catholic or anti-Semetic (that may play in the "Bible Belt" but not in the Catholic Belt, if the GOP wants to nominate social conservatives in NE they should nominate Catholics as a practical matter.) Finally they have to want to win, that means no country club types who just want to have "former Congressional candidate" on their resume while they sip their brandys at the "Club".

173 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:02:22am

re: #160 avanti

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

Damn straight.

174 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:02:36am

When caught being a horse's ass, blame Bush:

Pelosi tries to backpedal on CIA criticism

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has backed down slightly in her fight with the CIA, saying that she really meant only to criticize the Bush administration rather than career officials.

"My criticism of the manner in which the Bush Administration did not appropriately inform Congress is separate from my respect for those in the intelligence community who work to keep our country safe," Pelosi said in a statement.

175 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:02:46am

re: #162 Cattt

I also found some screen caps of Alex Skarsgard in the shower. Wow.

*perks up*

Nekkid?

176 irongrampa  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:02:46am

re: #168 pink freud


Add Sarah Palin to that list, I think.

177 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:02:52am

re: #131 zeebeach

I will do so, happily, but if I don't know what your criteria is, how can I know that my list concurs with yours?

Is there a reason why I should care whether your "list" concurs with mine? Since you really seem to want to push this, though, it's extremely easy to name at least half a dozen top GOP politicians who are creationists.

Mark Sanford
Tim Pawlenty
Bobby Jindal
Rick Perry
Mike Huckabee
Sam Brownback

The first three of those are generally considered to be front-runners for the 2012 elections.

It's much harder to name a top GOP politician who is NOT a creationist. Mitt Romney is the only one I can think of, and he's probably not electable.

178 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:03:20am

That's a very effective way to deal with potential competition. Good for the Governor.

179 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:03:37am

I'd like to see a Cheney/Obama debate...hahaha!

180 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:03:43am

re: #160 avanti

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

Just 17 more dings until 1,000 for you, you prick.

181 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:04:22am

re: #171 Cattt

For some - punishment. Especially the one on the fur rug. :D You know the routine - "oh no - my eyes!" guys who think they'll go gay if they see a hot guy.

*sigh* Go ahead. Punish me if you must.

:D

182 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:04:23am

re: #170 SixDegrees

My bad - meant Beck. Doing four things at once today.

He's in it for the money.

183 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:04:57am

re: #180 MandyManners

Just 17 more dings until 1,000 for you, you prick.

I had to agree with Avanti on that one.

184 itellu3times  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:05:24am

re: #160 avanti

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

Nirth cirtificate.

185 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:06:00am

re: #176 irongrampa

Add Sarah Palin to that list, I think.

They were very successful using that tactic with her. Very successful. I think Cheney has more Teflon. He would find a way to turn it around on them, you just know he would.

186 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:06:12am

Later. Gotta go to a wedding, I hope they have some decent booze...

187 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:06:17am

re: #184 itellu3times

Nirth cirtificate.

Especially this line:

Father: ___

188 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:06:18am

re: #160 avanti

I would match my "helping the poor" against ANY of the last 5 or 6 major democrat politicians running for President and Vice President! I also pay exorbitant taxes to both the state and federal government. I also give freely of my spare time to causes for the 'economically challenged'. I am so f*cking sick and tired of libtards calling me greedy because I am a conservative I could just about puke! Teach a man to fish and all that. Look it up.

189 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:06:27am

Perhaps Huntsman is the right person for the job.

190 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:07:32am

re: #188 Truck Monkey

Teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of his life messing about in boats and drinking beer.

191 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:07:39am

re: #160 avanti

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

This is really getting stupid. For your general information, I will have you know that my God can beat up your God...
/ Sheesh

192 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:07:42am

re: #180 MandyManners

Just 17 more dings until 1,000 for you, you prick.

Please yourself, but I don't know you enough to call you a nasty name.

193 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:00am

re: #160 avanti

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

Avanti, how come all polls that I have seen show Republicans to be more charitable than Democrats?

194 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:01am

re: #183 Walter L. Newton

I had to agree with Avanti on that one.

the original statement was the degree of Cheneys supposed unpopularity, not the perceived reasons why

195 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:03am

re: #190 WhiteRasta

Teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of his life messing about in boats and drinking beer.

NTTAWWT.

196 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:04am

I'm gonna' go sublimate some ire by chopping some peppers and mincing some garlic. L8r.

197 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:07am

Follow the twisted logic here.

I hope Amb. Huntsman keeps his job for more than 4 years. I hope he doesn't see any real reason to throw his hat in the presidential ring for 2012. I hope the democrats have a decent four years and somehow muddle through.

For the Republicans to face a situation where, without any rethinking and without any housecleaning, the 2012 election is theirs whoever they run, there will have had to be a national economic or military disaster.

Huntsman is right, by the way. Duty calls. More than ever, if you think the administration is off on the wrong foot, you have to do what is within your power to limit the damage.

198 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:36am

re: #188 Truck Monkey

I would match my "helping the poor" against ANY of the last 5 or 6 major democrat politicians running for President and Vice President! I also pay exorbitant taxes to both the state and federal government. I also give freely of my spare time to causes for the 'economically challenged'. I am so f*cking sick and tired of libtards calling me greedy because I am a conservative I could just about puke! Teach a man to fish and all that. Look it up.

I agree. Depends on the definition of "helping." Having the govt replace the family is the kind of help no one needs.

199 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:45am

re: #177 Charles

It's much harder to name a top GOP politician who is NOT a creationist. Mitt Romney is the only one I can think of, and he's probably not electable.

Rudy!

Can we still consider him a "top GOP politician" after his remarkable implosion in the 2008 primary?

200 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:08:54am

re: #195 pink freud

NTTWAT? Is wat dat?

201 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:09:06am

re: #192 avanti

Please yourself, but I don't know you enough to call you a nasty name.

When wit fails, fall back on manners.

202 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:09:29am

re: #200 WhiteRasta

NTTWAT? Is wat dat?

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :-)

/loves to fish

203 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:09:37am

re: #193 opnion

Avanti, how come all polls that I have seen show Republicans to be more charitable than Democrats?

BECAUSE ITS TRUE!

204 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:09:45am

re: #191 LGoPs

This is really getting stupid. For your general information, I will have you know that my God can beat up your God...
/ Sheesh

My Gods, can gang up on your God./s

205 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:09:54am

re: #135 LGoPs

Hope you're happy with what you're sitting it out helped give us.


Actually, yes I think it worked out for the best. The right has shown really bad instincts with the financial meltdown that I very content to let the Dems run the show.

206 WhiteRasta  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:09:56am

re: #202 pink freud

Ok, good one...

207 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:11:05am

re: #198 FightingBack

I agree. Depends on the definition of "helping." Having the govt replace the family is the kind of help no one needs.

It's done such wonders for the 'black' family over the last 50 years hasn't it?

208 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:11:34am

re: #199 Last Mohican

Rudy!

Can we still consider him a "top GOP politician" after his remarkable implosion in the 2008 primary?

The last election made it pretty clear that Rudy is not going to be President. He was sabotaged by the religious right and social conservatives, in favor of a Washington good old boy they thought they could manipulate.

209 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:11:40am

re: #203 Truck Monkey

BECAUSE ITS TRUE!

Yup

210 subsailor68  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:13:20am

Afternoon all! Not sure about metal, or progressive metal. But I am sure about jazz. This, I believe, is the only time John Coltrane and Stan Getz played together. (Oh yeah, it didn't hurt to have Oscar Peterson on piano!)

211 Rexatosis  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:13:21am

Re: Charles #177

Charles I must respectfully disagree re: Mitt Romney. In a one-on-one with either McCain or Huckabee I firmly believe Romney would win and I firmly believe the reason he lost the nomination to McCain is Huckabee and Thompson split the conservative vote with Romney while Rudy's strategy of putting everything on Florida opened the door to McCain who greatly benefited from Independents and Democrats voting for him in open primary states. Romney was essentially flanked by liberals (ind. and Dems crossing over) and evangelicals while his center (conservatives, social liberatarians) fractured between mulitple candidates and he vacated the race to allow the GOP to attempt to reestablish its electoral coalition which it failed to do.

212 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:13:39am

Now I'm getting hate mail from people denying that the Lambs of Christ are linked to violent extremists.

213 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:13:42am

One of the reasons that we've come to this point is the mindset that specific candidates don't fit all of our philosophical requirements. They never will, and if we continue to expect it, we'll continue to get beaten. No candidate can be everything to everyone. Sometimes we just have to pick the lesser of two evils and build on that in the future. Political change comes incrementally, as it should.

The tactic of moving to "the far Right" in order to counter "the far Left" is a fools errand; it's simply a classification of craziness.

At some point we have to come to a consensus. At some point we have to realize that political parties are never going to be homogeneous, nor should they be. Advocating "political purity" in pursuit of political goals will never work.

We can't win over the American public with politically puritanical nuts. We can win over the American public with reason and THAT'S how we should be spending our energy.

214 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:14:26am

re: #205 Killgore Trout

Actually, yes I think it worked out for the best. The right has shown really bad instincts with the financial meltdown that I very content to let the Dems run the show.

Whatever. You would have been a hoot at the Little Big Horn. Instead of aiming at all the howling indians you would have been shooting your fellow troopers...
/

215 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:14:41am

Effect of Collapsed Ice Sheet Revised

Let the revisionism begin!

216 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:15:28am

re: #212 Charles

Now I'm getting hate mail from people denying that the Lambs of Christ are linked to violent extremists.

You just can't win having an opinion these days. Feel the LOVE!

217 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:15:45am

re: #205 Killgore Trout

Actually, yes I think it worked out for the best. The right has shown really bad instincts with the financial meltdown that I very content to let the Dems run the show.

that's not what the voting record shows...how is the donk instinct for dealing with the crisis coming along?...virtually no stimulous money is in the pipeline and when it is it cannot be accounted for...tax cuts stimulate an economy, not quadrupling the debt over ten years...jobs are vanishing a good fast pace and the auto industry is being muscled into the federal realm...what instincts are you talking about?

218 Shug  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:17:26am
When the president of the United States asks you step up and serve in a capacity like this, that to me is the end of the conversation and the beginning of the obligation to rise to the challenge

My kind of guy

219 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:17:28am

re: #212 Charles

Now I'm getting hate mail from people denying that the Lambs of Christ are linked to violent extremists.

Think that's fun? Try saying something unflattering about Dick Cheney.

220 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:17:33am

for the most part the 'meltdown' can be laid at the feet of the donks, who since last fall have done virtually nothing to stimulate the economy...they have made it worse by most economists opinion...

221 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:17:34am

re: #193 opnion

Avanti, how come all polls that I have seen show Republicans to be more charitable than Democrats?

It was a sarcastic comment about the litmus tests a GOP candidate has to pass by a agnostic poster. I have no idea how Jesus would do in the primaries. I do know his father is a pretty high pay grade.

222 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:21:02am

Dems red-faced over veteran imposter

Rick Strandlof, executive director of the Colorado Veterans Alliance and the man most colleagues knew as Rick Duncan, was front and center during the 2008 political campaigns in Colorado.

He spoke at a Barack Obama veterans rally in front of the Capitol in July, co-hosted several events with then- congressional candidate Jared Polis and attacked Republican Senate candidate Bob Schaffer in a TV ad paid for by the national group Votevets.org.

And the mostly Democratic candidates he supported — looking for credibility on veterans issues and the war — lapped it up appreciatively.

Now, politicians are dealing with news that the man they believed to be a former Marine and war veteran wounded in Iraq by a roadside bomb, in fact, never served in the military — but did spend time in a mental hospital.

/Bonkeys sure do loves their fake veterans

223 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:21:33am

re: #215 Racer X

Effect of Collapsed Ice Sheet Revised

Let the revisionism begin!

no more Key West...bummmer

224 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:21:49am

re: #219 Cato the Elder

Think that's fun? Try saying something unflattering about Dick Cheney.

Or mentioning that there was anti-semitism with in christianity during the ages.

I was getting down dinged by some prominent Lizards this morning for bring that up on the open thread.

It's amazing, truth is SO important to some people, until the truth rattles the foundations of certain beliefs.

At that point, come hell nor high water, truth be damned, they won't listen to facts, all that goes out the window, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

Don't mess with my beliefs, right or not. Humanity will continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over, until they can put truth over loyalties, facts above egos, and caring over power.

It's a shame.

225 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:21:52am

re: #136 albusteve

I made to 21 sec...that was really awful

Maybe you'll like this! The gov likes this group. Or maybe you won't. :D

226 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:23:21am

When the Religious Right shows the same attitude as a tyrannical autocrat, maybe there is something wrong:

Moscow police violently break up gay pride rally

227 itellu3times  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:23:30am

re: #208 Charles

The last election made it pretty clear that Rudy is not going to be President. He was sabotaged by the religious right and social conservatives, in favor of a Washington good old boy they thought they could manipulate.

Sabotaged himself with an idiotic campaign strategy.

Maybe he would have lost anyway going head to head with the better financed Romney, but OTOH maybe doing that would have attracted the additional money he needed. McCain was down to pocket change for a while, and came thru. It was Romney that was ganged up on by Huckleberry and company.

Maybe if Romney and Rudy had come to some agreement early on, we'd be talking about a Republican resurgence in the northeast instead of the opposite, hey, but no, the moving finger writes, and that's not what it wrote.

228 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:23:43am

re: #217 albusteve

I think letting the banks fail would have been a very bad move. We have prevented the collapse of our economy and it looks like we're starting to see early signs of recovery. TARP worked. I would have preferred to see tax cuts as part of the stimulus but I think Rudy was our only real chance of getting that done. McCain never saw a tax hike he didn't like. The auto-bailouts kinda sucked but hopefully we'll get our money back out of it. There's work on putting regulations on the financial industry to prevent this from happening again so that's a positive move.
I've found that pretty much all of the dire end of the world prediction made by the right are overblown or outright lies. We are probably not doomed.

229 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:25:12am

re: #222 Killian Bundy

Red faced? They took it to the bank, didn't they? Probably delighted.

230 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:25:23am

re: #182 MandyManners

He's in it for the money.

Quite possible. But he'll stick around as long as the money does, in that case, and his stain will spread to the party as a whole.

Same with Limbaugh. I've always enjoyed Rush - as an entertainer. His newly-donned mantle of GOP poobah leaves me cold, however; the man doesn't belong in politics any more than Al Franken does.

231 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:25:44am

re: #225 Cattt

no..I'm into R/B, roots rock, that sort of thing...I consider this here type of music unlistenable...I'd prefer the 'Marry Poppins' sound track over that stuff

232 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:25:57am

re: #228 Killgore Trout

To that I'll add the embrace of Paulian economics and John Galt nonsense are of no interest to me. As long as the Republican party is endorsing this stuff they will not be getting my vote.

233 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:26:19am

re: #228 Killgore Trout

We're only doomed to repeat if we haven't identified the causes.

234 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:26:55am

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I think letting the banks fail would have been a very bad move. We have prevented the collapse of our economy and it looks like we're starting to see early signs of recovery. TARP worked. I would have preferred to see tax cuts as part of the stimulus but I think Rudy was our only real chance of getting that done. McCain never saw a tax hike he didn't like. The auto-bailouts kinda sucked but hopefully we'll get our money back out of it. There's work on putting regulations on the financial industry to prevent this from happening again so that's a positive move.
I've found that pretty much all of the dire end of the world prediction made by the right are overblown or outright lies. We are probably not doomed.

You miss the larger effect that TARP and all this bailout will have. When it all shakes out, we will surely have a nice foundation of soft-socialism in place, which will act as the stepping off point of a full blown Euro styled socialism.

Of course, from some of you comments in the past, am I assuming too much to say that would be alright with you?

235 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:27:21am

re: #15 nbenhaim

i don't recall any republicans who are opposed to gay rights. Gays enjoy all rights in this country that the rest of us do. In fact gays have probably prospered far more in this country than in any other country. Just because republicans don't want gays to marry, doesn't mean they are opposed to gay rights.

What are "gay rights" anyhow? They're privileges that gays want written into law for themselves. But no one seems to have thought through the consequences. If any two people can get married, why not any three or four? The legal principles on which the argument that states cannot confine marriage to one man one woman would be argued and won, would be legal principles that could be used again to legalize polygamy.

What about inheritance law? Why should not an aging tycoon marry his son? Then, the son, as spouse, would inherit the family fortune tax free.

Why shouldn't the Dalton gang all marry each other? That way, if one were captured, he could not be forced to testify against any of the others.

The traditional assumption made by the State is that marriage is good and should be supported because married couples raise the next generation, doing necessary work for the survival of society. But that would become open to debate. Gay marriages don't hold together at the rate that straight marriages do, pitiful though those statistics may be. Gay marriages don't lead to natural-born children to whom both parents are bound by blood ties. The laws on parental authority would have to be tightened, because the word "parent" would no longer mean in law what it has meant so far in the real world.

Everything would be changed, and nobody seems to have given it a thought.

236 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:27:46am

re: #25 Charles

oh the horror! he doesn't hate gay people!

237 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:28:32am

re: #224 Walter L. Newton

Or mentioning that there was anti-semitism with in christianity during the ages.

I was getting down dinged by some prominent Lizards this morning for bring that up on the open thread.

How can anyone deny the existence of Christian anti-Semitism? Just read the vaunted Martin Luther. For one minor example.

238 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:28:41am

re: #233 debutaunt

I think we have a pretty good idea what happened. It seems right now that the political will is in place to to install regulations to prevent this from happening again. The next meltdown will have a slightly different cause.

239 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:28:54am

re: #212 Charles

Now I'm getting hate mail from people denying that the Lambs of Christ are linked to violent extremists.

I'm guessing it's violent hate mail, too.

240 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:29:02am

The markets were down on Friday and then there is this charmer...

China's Yuan set to usurp U.S. Dollar as world's reserve currency.

Soros must be laughing his head off.

241 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:29:40am

re: #223 albusteve

no more Key West...bummmer

Not to worry - it will get revised again in a few months.

242 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:29:43am

I don't get why people are against gay marriage. How is it any different than interracial marriage, which was illegal until 1960? People don't choose to be black, gay people don't choose to be gay. There is a reason why so many gay people attempt suicide. It is because our society is so blatantly homophobic and not accepting of them. People used the same arguments about interracial marriage back in the day. I don't see how this is different.

243 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:29:51am

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I think letting the banks fail would have been a very bad move. We have prevented the collapse of our economy and it looks like we're starting to see early signs of recovery. TARP worked. I would have preferred to see tax cuts as part of the stimulus but I think Rudy was our only real chance of getting that done. McCain never saw a tax hike he didn't like. The auto-bailouts kinda sucked but hopefully we'll get our money back out of it. There's work on putting regulations on the financial industry to prevent this from happening again so that's a positive move.
I've found that pretty much all of the dire end of the world prediction made by the right are overblown or outright lies. We are probably not doomed.

the banks cannot be allowed to fail, agreed...bailouts for industry, any industry is a conservative disaster as is being proven...I personally could not stand McCain myself but I'm utterly repulsed by BO...further I'm not a good person to debate this stuff because I have such a burning contempt for the feds as it is...not all pols, and certainlt not in all aspects of govt...I want less govt no matter who runs or what it takes

244 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:30:59am

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

No, I'm not a fan of European socialism. I've gone a little wobbly on socialized medicine and I'm willing to entertain the idea. However, we aren't socializing our economy despite the fact that conservatives are screaming this from the rooftops.

245 FightingBack  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:31:17am

re: #235 lostlakehiker

Yes. I advised my unmarried relative to "marry" her younger brother,
locking in her pensions that would otherwise end at her death.

And, if they find someone that they really want to marry at a later date, then polygamy is OK, too, so no prob.

246 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:31:24am

re: #240 rightymouse

I'm pretty sure that's BS.

247 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:31:36am

re: #237 Cato the Elder

How can anyone deny the existence of Christian anti-Semitism? Just read the vaunted Martin Luther. For one minor example.

On the overnight open thread, this morning, I brought up the subject because of a link that Killgore had posted, and once again, I got the "Scotsmans logic" answer from some "they weren't really christians" and for those who didn't want to debate the issue and just ignore the facts, they were down dinging me. And I am talking about well known Lizards.

But that's fine, it gives me a better insight to certain comments, and helps me not fall into a trap when I know better.

Every little bit helps.

248 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:32:38am

re: #244 Killgore Trout

No, I'm not a fan of European socialism. I've gone a little wobbly on socialized medicine and I'm willing to entertain the idea. However, we aren't socializing our economy despite the fact that conservatives are screaming this from the rooftops.

Oh yes we are. Watch.

249 Wendya  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:32:39am

re: #9 WhiteRasta

Not buying into the whole Global warming scam does not make you a knuckle dragging neanderthal.

That's been a leftist meme for a while. It has unfortunately been sold to a lot of people center - right.

This happens every time the right loses power. They start echoing leftist memes about why the right can't survive. The social conservatives are always at the top of the list. Unfortunately, there are always some unthinking fools who decide we need to institute a new McCarthyism. Commies and Socialists are okay but you've got to get rid of the religious people and (now) those who don't believe humans are killing the planet.

I've been hearing this since Clinton won. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.

250 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:32:50am

re: #247 Walter L. Newton

christian antisemitism existed well into the 20th century.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

251 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:33:01am

re: #241 Racer X

Not to worry - it will get revised again in a few months.

I feel better already...aside from Orlando and the Panhandle, the only other good thing about that state is Key West

252 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:33:20am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure that's BS.


You're the economic expert around here.
/

253 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:34:05am

re: #230 SixDegrees

Quite possible. But he'll stick around as long as the money does, in that case, and his stain will spread to the party as a whole.

Same with Limbaugh. I've always enjoyed Rush - as an entertainer. His newly-donned mantle of GOP poobah leaves me cold, however; the man doesn't belong in politics any more than Al Franken does.

I don't agree with this trend of describing Talk Radio hosts as 'entertainers'. I listen to Talk Radio to get information and views that I will not get from the MFM. If I want to be entertained I listen to a comedian or go to a movie. I think the term is used to dismiss them as peripheral and to marginalize them.

254 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:34:29am

re: #250 ihateronpaul

christian antisemitism existed well into the 20th century.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Od course it was, and that was my point this morning, but there are people who will deny the history, the truth, the facts.

255 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:35:00am

re: #240 rightymouse

The markets were down on Friday and then there is this charmer...

China's Yuan set to usurp U.S. Dollar as world's reserve currency.

Soros must be laughing his head off.

Obama's stimulus package money has not yet hit the streets, yet the economy is already showing signs of recovery. We're all being scammed.

256 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:35:06am

re: #175 MandyManners

*perks up*

Nekkid?

Yes, but the camera doesn't show all of him. I can't find it right now - will look more. Here he is in Gen Kill enjoying that sun.

257 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:35:14am

re: #244 Killgore Trout

No, I'm not a fan of European socialism. I've gone a little wobbly on socialized medicine and I'm willing to entertain the idea. However, we aren't socializing our economy despite the fact that conservatives are screaming this from the rooftops.

I just don't see how you can say that...wth?

258 HarryTheHawk  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:35:19am

Hmmm...are the current top Democratic leaders moderate?

259 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:35:32am

re: #253 LGoPs

I am "entertained" by his show, but it is re: #254 Walter L. Newton

It can't be true! Nothing on wikipedia is!

ahahah

260 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:35:50am

WSJ: Gov't pressuring Bank of America board change

A report Friday said federal officials are pressuring Bank of America Corp. to revamp its board and bring in directors with more banking experience.

The story in The Wall Street Journal called the regulators' move "unusual" as the government does not own a stake in the company, and most of the bank's problems are the result of its purchase of Merrill Lynch & Co., which was advised by regulators.

Bank of America said last week it was looking for new directors, but gave little detail. The announcement came as the government, after completing its stress test of the bank and 18 other financial companies, said Bank of America needed to raise nearly $34 billion. The bank has received $45 billion in government funds as part of the Treasury Department's $700 billion financial rescue package.

The Journal said regulators including the Federal Reserve and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency had previously signaled to the bank's leadership that changes in the board would be well received by the federal government, the Journal report said.

/nevermind that Bank of America shareholders just elected their board of directors less than two weeks ago at their annual meeting

261 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:36:38am

BBIAB - get ready for work time.

262 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:37:17am

re: #211 Rexatosis

Re: Charles #177

Charles I must respectfully disagree re: Mitt Romney. In a one-on-one with either McCain or Huckabee I firmly believe Romney would win and I firmly believe the reason he lost the nomination to McCain is Huckabee and Thompson split the conservative vote with Romney while Rudy's strategy of putting everything on Florida opened the door to McCain who greatly benefited from Independents and Democrats voting for him in open primary states. Romney was essentially flanked by liberals (ind. and Dems crossing over) and evangelicals while his center (conservatives, social liberatarians) fractured between mulitple candidates and he vacated the race to allow the GOP to attempt to reestablish its electoral coalition which it failed to do.

Further , a week before the Florida Primary McCain put out a false story that Romney favored a timetable in Iraq. Even confronted with the falcity of the story, McCain stuck with it.

263 austin_blue  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:37:44am

As for Cheney being good for the party, the latest NBC/WSJ poll has his somewhat/very positive numbers at 18%. His somewhat/very negatives are at 54%.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Top of page 9.

264 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:37:58am

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

Od course it was, and that was my point this morning, but there are people who will deny the history, the truth, the facts.

I'm guilty of that stuff sometimes...I can't stop myself and I make things up...but I'm not an anti-Semetic

265 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:39:02am

re: #260 Killian Bundy

WSJ: Gov't pressuring Bank of America board change

A report Friday said federal officials are pressuring Bank of America Corp. to revamp its board and bring in directors with more banking experience.

/nevermind that Bank of America shareholders just elected their board of directors less than two weeks ago at their annual meeting

F*cking greedy speculators. I trust Teleprompter Jesus knows what's right for B of A and he should do as he pleases with the board.
/do I need to?

266 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:40:09am

re: #255 Racer X

Obama's stimulus package money has not yet hit the streets, yet the economy is already showing signs of recovery. We're all being scammed.


Printing inflationary levels of money and selling the debt to China...

Gee...what could possibly go wrong?

/

267 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:40:25am

Dick Cheney helped hundreds of thousands of Jihadis find their raisins.

For that I thank him.

268 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:40:44am

re: #260 Killian Bundy

But this ain't socialism.

/ is it sarcasm, or is it memorex?

269 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:41:32am

re: #263 austin_blue

As for Cheney being good for the party, the latest NBC/WSJ poll has his somewhat/very positive numbers at 18%. His somewhat/very negatives are at 54%.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Top of page 9.

yes...meanwhile Ron Paul is gaining in popularity and Glenn Beck is a bullet

270 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:41:48am

re: #263 austin_blue

As for Cheney being good for the party, the latest NBC/WSJ poll has his somewhat/very positive numbers at 18%. His somewhat/very negatives are at 54%.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Top of page 9.

So what. I think Dick Cheney is representing himself as a concerned citizen. What does he have to gain from all this? Nothing. He does not aspire to political power. He has more money than Davy Crockett. He could have just gone home to Montana and told us all to F off.

271 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #259 ihateronpaul

I am "entertained" by his show, but it is re: #254 Walter L. Newton

It can't be true! Nothing on wikipedia is!

ahahah

I have no idea of what you just said.

272 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:42:15am
Huntsman is often mentioned as a potential Republican presidential candidate in 2012, although some of his advisers think the party’s primary voters will be more prepared to accept his moderate views in 2016 if the party suffers a 1964-like cataclysm at the polls in 2012.

And that could very well be.

If the economy is improved, if we remain terror attack free, if the war in Afghanistan is going well and progress made, and marijuana is decriminalized, then 0bama will win re-election.

It's possible this international job will make Huntsman that much more qualified in 2016- executive experience in running a state and having done so well, moderate social positions with a strong fiscal line, international diplomacy experience. 2016 could be for him.

273 [deleted]  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:42:33am
274 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:42:44am

re: #271 LGoPs

I have no idea of what you just said.

Moby

275 Dirk Diggler  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:43:32am

Kilgore Trout,

As long as the Republican party is endorsing this stuff they will not be getting my vote.

I think it's safe to say that the Republican Party can never expect your vote no matter what the circumstances.

As far as your earlier comment about economic collapse being averted, just wait. Last year the tribulations of Wall Street affected Main Street. This year the tribulations on Main Street (a real jobless rate of 16%, consumer spending declining at a record rate, and even prime morgage defaults shooting the moon) will eventually impact Wall Street. The major banks may be recording profits now with and all of the cheap money from the Federal Reserve and "mark-to-make believe" accounting, but that will come to a quick and cataclysmic end.

276 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:43:37am

re: #273 taxfreekiller

THE RINO's know the gig is up.

ps
Just back (in the rain still) from a Dallas planing deal on,,,
The Tax Day Tea Party for July 4th 2009 for the Dallas area...

it will not be small.

ps
Ward Cleaver and any other Dallas area conservatives who want to join in and help...
go to
[Link: www.dallasteaparty.org...]

best not to talk of it here just now very good thing about to happen for the Dallas area Republicans is all I will say now.

We will take our country back.

if you see Ron, give him a kiss for me!

277 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:43:59am

re: #258 HarryTheHawk

Hmmm...are the current top Democratic leaders moderate?

Personally, I think that the "top Democratic leaders" have no real principles, other than keeping their status "top Democratic leaders". How can one seriously use Pelosi or Reid in the same sentence as "leader"? They're Obama's lemmings and, I'll have to say, he's using them masterfully.

278 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:44:14am

Freepers say I'm on "a mission of evil," because I criticized Alan Keyes and the extremist Lambs of Christ anti-abortion nutjobs:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

279 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:44:29am

I'm also a "filthy libertine."

280 gulfloafer  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:44:59am

re: #177 Charles
I think Romney's still electable among conservatives. When he ceded to McCain at CPAC he positioned himself as a front runner for 2012. If the country keeps on the path it's going, fiscally, it's going to need a whole lot of fixing. The guy has business sense and a track record to back it up.

281 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:45:32am

That Free Republic link explains why I suddenly started getting hate mail on that story.

282 irongrampa  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:45:45am

re: #273 taxfreekiller


You're a helluva good man, TFK.

283 Wendya  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:01am

re: #224 Walter L. Newton

Or mentioning that there was anti-semitism with in christianity during the ages.


There are certain hot button issues that people will get fired up about regardless of the truth. Martin Luther was no friend of the Jews and at times in history Jewish communities had legitimate reasons to fear Christians.

284 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:03am

re: #279 Charles

I'm also a "filthy libertine."

Those freepers could stand a lesson in alliteration.

285 Tigger2005  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:10am

I missed the last evolution thread, but I wanted to share this e-mail I received at the nonprofit religious organization where I work (a progressive Christian organization that doesn't oppose evolution, btw). I think it illustrates the depth of ignorance we're dealing with here:

Dear Pastor,

Jesus stated, "You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

Please all ministers keep preaching on the evolution thing and NO one has ever stated the truth ... beside that of Jesus Christ.

We COULD NOT have evolved from any apes or animals ...

TRUTH is ... it is in the BLOOD.

We know of the sacrifices of Christ with His shed blood and Why ...

Please realize if we were descendants from apes, elephants or what then we would stock pile their blookd in case of emergencies, blood transfusions and in times of war.

PLEASE, PLEASE tell the truth and let man get back to seeing God.

Thank you for reading tis and in hopes, prayer that other ministers, either through a convention or by mouth ... beging to share this thought.

Agape,
XXX XXX

286 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:16am

re: #279 Charles

I'm also a "filthy libertine."

At least they didn't call you a Jew!

/

287 [deleted]  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:22am
288 [deleted]  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:36am
289 Shug  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:48am

re: #279 Charles

I'm also a "filthy libertine."

Libertine men and scarlet women and ragtime
Shameless music that'll grab your son, your daughter
into the arms of a jungle animal instinct- massteria!
Friends, the idle brain is the devil's playground, trouble!

290 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:54am

re: #257 albusteve

I should have said...

However, we aren't permanently socializing our economy despite the fact that conservatives are screaming this from the rooftops.

Remember all that crap about Obama using TARP to permanently socialize the banks? Not gonna happen, is it? The banks are going to give the money back (with interest, by the way). I'm sure a few more CEO's are gonna get sacked before this is over with but they'll eventually be set upon their merry way once they pay back TARP. In a few years the government will hopefully sell off its interest in GM before the unions run it into the ground again. We are not looking at a permanently socialized economy. This is a temporary measure in an emergency case.
Either way we can always undo it in 10-20 years when the Republicans become electable again.

291 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:46:57am

Thinking skills are not something Freepers are known to have in abundance.

292 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:47:03am

re: #271 LGoPs

sorry, I responded to the wrong post. I meant to comment on walter stating that some deny history and it was a reply to my comment that used wikpedia for a source about Charles Coughlin, an antisemetic radio host that was very popular during the great depression that was a roman catholic priest.

my apologies.

293 [deleted]  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:47:16am
294 Shug  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:47:24am

Jeepers Creapers
Where'd ya get those freepers?

295 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:48:41am

re: #288 Iron Fist

I've never really understood the irrational hatred that the Left have for Cheney. True, he isn't any kind of Lftist, and for many on the Left that is a good enough reason to hate people. But Cheney never really did anything hard right. The VP has very little power or influence (who was it that said it wasn't worth a "bucket of warm spit"?). The Bush Administration wasn't a puppet government with Cheney pulling all of the strings in the background. That is a paranoid fantasy.

They fear him because he is effective and he tells the truth.

296 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:49:58am

re: #279 Charles

I'm also a "filthy libertine."

vs. what, a clean libertine?

297 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:50:10am

re: #273 taxfreekiller

We will take our country back.

Thank you, tfk.

298 itellu3times  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:50:17am

re: #285 Tigger2005

Well yeah, I'm agape after reading it, too.

299 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:50:24am

[Link: shop.wnd.com...]

I think WND is just as bad, if not worse than freerepublic.

300 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:50:34am

re: #290 Killgore Trout

I should have said...


Remember all that crap about Obama using TARP to permanently socialize the banks? Not gonna happen, is it? The banks are going to give the money back (with interest, by the way). I'm sure a few more CEO's are gonna get sacked before this is over with but they'll eventually be set upon their merry way once they pay back TARP. In a few years the government will hopefully sell off its interest in GM before the unions run it into the ground again. We are not looking at a permanently socialized economy. This is a temporary measure in an emergency case. Either way we can always undo it in 10-20 years when the Republicans become electable again.

Yeah. The Democrats will just freely give up the control that they're taking at breakneck speed as they make sure they don't let this crisis go to waste. Great analysis there.
/

301 Teh Flowah  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:50:39am

re: #38 Last Mohican

I had forgotten about that. It's a good point that Huntsman is in the doghouse with the far right, and that would make it hard for him to win a Republican presidential nomination in the future. But all the general election polls from the 2008 election had suggested that McCain, the moderate, had the best chance of beating Clinton or Obama. I think that the Democratic party's long-term goals are best served by helping the GOP along its self-destructive path of weakening and disenfranchising all the moderates.

So quick were some Republicans to fault McCain for being too moderate, forgetting that polls taken before the manifestation of the economic meltdown in September had McCain tied or ahead. They are fooling themselves if they think a further right candidate would have done better. The cards were stacked against McCain and he gave it his best shot. re: #9 WhiteRasta

Not buying into the whole Global warming scam does not make you a knuckle dragging neanderthal.

Nope, just makes you someone who picks and chooses when he decides to give credence to scientific authority based on whims and not reason.

302 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:50:49am

re: #296 reine.de.tout

vs. what, a clean libertine?

I prefer a clean latrine as opposed to a dirty latrine.

303 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:50:49am

re: #265 Truck Monkey

Teleprompter Jesus

/hmmm, I wonder if he'll get to meet Touchdown Jesus tomorrow?

304 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:51:03am

re: #283 Wendya

There are certain hot button issues that people will get fired up about regardless of the truth. Martin Luther was no friend of the Jews and at times in history Jewish communities had legitimate reasons to fear Christians.

But, but, but... they weren't really christians.

///big time sarcasm, thank you.

305 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:51:25am

re: #292 ihateronpaul

sorry, I responded to the wrong post. I meant to comment on walter stating that some deny history and it was a reply to my comment that used wikpedia for a source about Charles Coughlin, an antisemetic radio host that was very popular during the great depression that was a roman catholic priest.

my apologies.

No problem.

306 [deleted]  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:51:42am
307 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:51:52am

re: #279 Charles

I'm also a "filthy libertine."

Wow, they sure don't like you over there at freerepublic. Look what else you apparently did:

I deleted his Bookmark when he went off the reservation and started attacking anyone with a belief in a higher power as just as bad as jihadists...
308 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:52:52am

re: #290 Killgore Trout

I should have said...

Remember all that crap about Obama using TARP to permanently socialize the banks? Not gonna happen, is it? The banks are going to give the money back (with interest, by the way). I'm sure a few more CEO's are gonna get sacked before this is over with but they'll eventually be set upon their merry way once they pay back TARP. In a few years the government will hopefully sell off its interest in GM before the unions run it into the ground again. We are not looking at a permanently socialized economy. This is a temporary measure in an emergency case.
Either way we can always undo it in 10-20 years when the Republicans become electable again.

mostly speculation...I'm worried about the cost of energy, inflation, businesses taxed into bankrupcy...even considering a recovery and what the feds will continue do at this point is fantasy imo...this could just be a prelude to the BIG ONE down the road a piece

309 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:53:02am

re: #299 ihateronpaul

[Link: shop.wnd.com...]

I think WND is just as bad, if not worse than freerepublic.

Not that I pay much attention to either, but I think I have to agree:

Make a statement this year with one of our newest additions to the line of bumper stickers from WorldNetDaily.com.

Tired of keeping quiet? Well express yourself with this bumper sticker.

Make a bold statement this year -- and every year. This magnetic, permanent yet removable bumper sticker measures 15 by 3-3/4 inches. It's perfect not only for your car, but for your refrigerator, file cabinet - any magnetic surface where you would like to make a statement.

Cost is $5.95 for one, but we offer 5-packs, 10-packs and 25-packs. They make great gifts!

Estimated ship date - March 20

NOTE: Purchasing "Where's The Birth Certificate Magnetic Bumper Sticker" from WND's online store also qualifies you to receive three FREE issues of WND's acclaimed monthly print magazine, Whistleblower. Watch for the FREE offer during checkout.

Kooky!

310 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:53:11am

re: #279 Charles

I'm also a "filthy libertine."

That would look cool on a t-shirt. Maybe a bumper sticker.

311 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:53:20am

re: #288 Iron Fist

I've never really understood the irrational hatred that the Left have for Cheney. True, he isn't any kind of Lftist, and for many on the Left that is a good enough reason to hate people. But Cheney never really did anything hard right. The VP has very little power or influence (who was it that said it wasn't worth a "bucket of warm spit"?). The Bush Administration wasn't a puppet government with Cheney pulling all of the strings in the background. That is a paranoid fantasy.

The volume of their fire and their aim is a good indication of what they consider the greatest threat to be.
I loved Cheney's comment to that asshat Leahy when he told him to go fuck himself.

312 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:53:52am

re: #296 reine.de.tout


Totally OT.

Just wanted to know if you got my recipes via our mutual friend. If not, I'll goose her darling self. :)

313 itellu3times  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:54:01am

re: #260 Killian Bundy

/nevermind that Bank of America shareholders just elected their board of directors less than two weeks ago at their annual meeting

It's already called the Bank of America, they wouldn't even have to change the stationery!
/

314 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:54:19am

re: #306 taxfreekiller

back later

ms tfk says its my turn to cook

so,,, we are headed for the Sonic drive in in Greenville...


lol!

315 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:54:34am

re: #312 rightymouse

Totally OT.

Just wanted to know if you got my recipes via our mutual friend. If not, I'll goose her darling self. :)

Nope, not yet.
At least that I know of.
the e-mail needs to clearly identify whose recipes they are.

316 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:55:09am

re: #288 Iron Fist

I've never really understood the irrational hatred that the Left have for Cheney.

It's not just on the Left.

317 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:55:52am

re: #300 LGoPs

Yeah. The Democrats will just freely give up the control that they're taking at breakneck speed as they make sure they don't let this crisis go to waste. Great analysis there.
/

California is unable to de-socialize - take a lesson US.

318 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:57:14am

re: #313 itellu3times

It's already called the Bank of America, they wouldn't even have to change the stationery!
/

Bank of Obama is a bit too crass, isn't it? BOO doesn't have the right "feel".

319 Silvergirl  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:57:34am

Here is a story and video out of Utah announcing this appointment.

320 Wendya  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:57:45am

re: #253 LGoPs

I don't agree with this trend of describing Talk Radio hosts as 'entertainers'. I listen to Talk Radio to get information and views that I will not get from the MFM. If I want to be entertained I listen to a comedian or go to a movie. I think the term is used to dismiss them as peripheral and to marginalize them.

A lot of younger people and folks with deficient memories don't remember the days of talk radio before the advent of the internet. Back then, you got your news from television, radio or newspapers. Radio hosts had to be somewhat entertaining or they would lose their audience. I used to listen to Mike Malloy in the early 90's when he was in Atlanta (this was before he went full on moonbat). He was, at the time, mildly entertaining. When they switched his time slot and put him opposite of Rush he turned from mildly entertaining to bitter and vicious, That was the end of his Atlanta run. I listened to talk radio because they would discuss news and political items from a different perspective than I would hear or read locally. Now I occasionally turn in to hear caller opinions or guests.

321 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:57:50am

re: #315 reine.de.tout

Nope, not yet.
At least that I know of.
the e-mail needs to clearly identify whose recipes they are.

I did that, so I'll check with her. She's been busy these days.

322 albusteve  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:58:10am

re: #316 FurryOldGuyJeans

It's not just on the Left.

the power of persuasion...proof that hu-mons did not evolve from mules

323 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:58:41am

re: #160 avanti

Jesus would be too liberal as GOP pick. All that helping the poor, the rich are bad preaching./s

Thank you for demonstrating your depth of understanding of the teachings of Christ.

Good grief, avanti.

324 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:58:43am

re: #317 debutaunt

California is unable to de-socialize - take a lesson US.

California is a blueprint and a great big flashing warning sign for what happens to your economy under unbridled democratic control. The RNC should use it in a commercial just like the old 'this is your brain on drugs commercial'.

325 Shug  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:58:46am

We are all libertines

326 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:58:47am

Gingrich: Pelosi Is "Vicious" And "Dishonest"

Gingrich said:
"It's very hard for me to talk calmly about where we are. I think this is the most despicable, dishonest and vicious political effort I've seen in my lifetime. Right after 9/11, this country was terrified. We had an anthrax attack; we had a real danger that there might be a nuclear attack. We were deeply worried about terrorists.

Nancy Pelosi was the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee. She had an absolute obligation to know what was going on and she had an absolute obligation to speak up.

Men and women risk their lives all over this planet protecting us. And she has now viciously and dishonestly turned on them.

It is despicable. As an Army brat, I find it unbelievably offensive that left wing Democrats don't care about defending America. They care about hunting down and purging their political opponents in a way which is going to cripple ths country.

If you were a young man or woman out there today would you feel comfortable doing anything to defend America knowing that tomorrow they could decide you are a criminal?

I think people need to understand that this is really, really dangerous, and it is going to get a lot of people killed, if we don't call a halt to it."

327 jcm  Sat, May 16, 2009 11:59:22am

re: #318 FurryOldGuyJeans

Bank of Obama is a bit too crass, isn't it? BOO doesn't have the right "feel".

Scare the money right out of your wallet.

328 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:00:14pm

re: #226 FurryOldGuyJeans

When the Religious Right shows the same attitude as a tyrannical autocrat, maybe there is something wrong:

Moscow police violently break up gay pride rally

Did I miss something? Did the "Religious Right" violently break up a gay pride rally?

329 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:00:27pm

re: #300 LGoPs

Yeah. The Democrats will just freely give up the control that they're taking at breakneck speed as they make sure they don't let this crisis go to waste. Great analysis there.
/

There seems to be an incredulity that Obama could possibly have any socialist leanings.
Read his memoirs & speeches. A really good example is his NPR interview some years back when he faulted the Constitution for not addressing "Economic Justice."

330 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:01:16pm

I wish Newt was at GOP HQ.

331 [deleted]  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:02:00pm
332 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:02:05pm

re: #329 opnion

There seems to be an incredulity that Obama could possibly have any socialist leanings.
Read his memoirs & speeches. A really good example is his NPR interview some years back when he faulted the Constitution for not addressing "Economic Justice."

Well, he was fiendishly clever in hiding his beliefs in plain fucking sight.

333 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:02:30pm

re: #324 LGoPs

California is a blueprint and a great big flashing warning sign for what happens to your economy under unbridled democratic control. The RNC should use it in a commercial just like the old 'this is your brain on drugs commercial'.

Exactly. They refuse to stop spending.

334 ddd  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:02:38pm

Charles, when was the last time you posted a bike item?

335 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:02:52pm

re: #319 Silvergirl

Here is a story and video out of Utah announcing this appointment.

Oooh, thanks for the link.

Huntsman and his wife, Mary Kaye, have seven children, including adopted daughters from China and India. He dropped out of high school to play in a rock band, and spends his spare time playing in a band and mountain biking. He also rides a motorcycle and is a fan of motocross.

Mountain biker! Definitely not a kook!

336 jcm  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:03:07pm

re: #329 opnion

There seems to be an incredulity that Obama could possibly have any socialist leanings.
Read his memoirs & speeches. A really good example is his NPR interview some years back when he faulted the Constitution for not addressing "Economic Justice."

And finding fault for placing "negative" restrictions on government, what the government cannot do.

Missing the entire purpose of the Constitution was and is to limited government.

337 Dirk Diggler  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:03:14pm

Dr. Nouriel Roubini must be one of those Paulian, Tea Party, "right wing" extremists (even though he supports Obama and inexplicably cheerleads for his economic policies).

Dr. Roubini: "I think people are deluding themselves."

'I see financial shocks in the months ahead. Some financial institutions are in so much trouble we may have to take them over,' he said.

He expects US unemployment to top 11% in 2010, up from 8.5% in March, which will add to loan defaults. Half of hedge funds could go out of business in the next few years.

Non-financial companies' earnings will also disappoint in coming months and put pressure on financial markets, he said.

He dismissed talk of 'green shoots' of recovery in the US, pointing out that retail sales, industrial production and housing starts all fell in March. He does not expect economic growth until 2010 and even then it will be very low at 0.5% for the year. 'Recovery next year will be so weak, it will feel like a recession,' he said.

China meanwhile will not meet its 8% growth target this year - Roubini expects 5.5% growth for the economy, which effectively translates into a hard landing, he said.

Once the global economy recovers, it will have deflation to contend with due to slack commodity markets and downward wage pressure as labour markets remain weak. 'For the next two to three years, I think deflation will be a problem,' he said.

UK inflation figures published today showed the Retail Prices Index slipping into deflation, with a fall from 0% in February to 0.4% in March. The Government's preferred Consumer Prices Index fell from 3.2% to 2.9%.

Share prices on Wall Street tumbled more than 3% yesterday after weak results from Bank of America reignited concerns over the state of the banking industry and the economy.

Bank of America shares plunged 24.3% to $8.02 despite a rise in profits. Its earning report raised questions about the sustainability of better-than-expected results from banks after the company voiced fears about increasing bad debts. It also emerged yesterday that IBM's quarterly sales fell more than predicted.

338 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:04:02pm

re: #326 Racer X

Gingrich: Pelosi Is "Vicious" And "Dishonest"

Gingrich said:
"It's very hard for me to talk calmly about where we are. I think this is the most despicable, dishonest and vicious political effort I've seen in my lifetime. Right after 9/11, this country was terrified. We had an anthrax attack; we had a real danger that there might be a nuclear attack. We were deeply worried about terrorists.

Nancy Pelosi was the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee. She had an absolute obligation to know what was going on and she had an absolute obligation to speak up.

Men and women risk their lives all over this planet protecting us. And she has now viciously and dishonestly turned on them.

It is despicable. As an Army brat, I find it unbelievably offensive that left wing Democrats don't care about defending America. They care about hunting down and purging their political opponents in a way which is going to cripple ths country.

If you were a young man or woman out there today would you feel comfortable doing anything to defend America knowing that tomorrow they could decide you are a criminal?

I think people need to understand that this is really, really dangerous, and it is going to get a lot of people killed, if we don't call a halt to it."

His plain spokenness is a breath of fresh air. I wish more in his party had the balls to call a spade a spade.

339 Wendya  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:04:20pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

We are not looking at a permanently socialized economy. This is a temporary measure in an emergency case.


Well, gosh. That makes it all better.

//

340 rightymouse  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:04:44pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

I should have said...


Remember all that crap about Obama using TARP to permanently socialize the banks? Not gonna happen, is it? The banks are going to give the money back (with interest, by the way). I'm sure a few more CEO's are gonna get sacked before this is over with but they'll eventually be set upon their merry way once they pay back TARP. In a few years the government will hopefully sell off its interest in GM before the unions run it into the ground again. We are not looking at a permanently socialized economy. This is a temporary measure in an emergency case.
Either way we can always undo it in 10-20 years when the Republicans become electable again.

You are scary in your ignorance re: economics/free markets.

I think I'm going to go to the grocery store now and spend some money that I earned from my own labor. Money that nobody gave me for nothing.

341 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:04:54pm

re: #278 Charles

Freepers say I'm on "a mission of evil," because I criticized Alan Keyes and the extremist Lambs of Christ anti-abortion nutjobs:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

A badge of honor for you, Charles.

The person who runs that sight actually (at one time) forbade any negative remarks about Keyes, if I remember correctly. They love him. One drubbing by Obama wasn't enough, apparently - they're going for two.

He remains a crazy bastard and a loser (seriously, has he ever won an election to anything?), but they don't care.

342 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:05:33pm

re: #335 wrenchwench

Mountain biker! Definitely not a kook!

He might get called a RINO by some, but I think "kook" will be a hard one to stick.

343 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:06:15pm

Off topic - We got Paulians!

Conservative blogger I follow just posted this on Twitter:

"Ron Paul crowd has made its presence known at SCGOP convention... Passing platform, resolutions has turned into a Parliamentary nightmare"

He hasn't put anything about it on his blog, but it will probably be up later.

Meanwhile, I read that Bob Inglis (R-SC) is jumping with the 101 Airborne today. I am seriously jealous!

344 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:06:17pm

re: #332 LGoPs

Well, he was fiendishly clever in hiding his beliefs in plain fucking sight.

That's the thing , he is who he told us he is. People who voted for him & now say, "But I didn't know" make my teeth itch.

345 hazzyday  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:07:08pm

re: #15 nbenhaim

i don't recall any republicans who are opposed to gay rights. Gays enjoy all rights in this country that the rest of us do. In fact gays have probably prospered far more in this country than in any other country. Just because republicans don't want gays to marry, doesn't mean they are opposed to gay rights.

What you would want to do is present the biblical and cultural reasons for the institution of marriage. A materialistic view of marriage and a divine view. Sin versus facility. I don't think the gay rights people accept your view of 'rights'. That will make it difficult for that type of idea to gain acceptance. Especially when girls just kissed a girl.

The quote in the Bible I read recently implies that marriage is of an earthly realm and not of the divine realm. That would be counter to my views but I believe I read it in Luke.

346 itellu3times  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:07:42pm

re: #318 FurryOldGuyJeans

Bank of Obama is a bit too crass, isn't it? BOO doesn't have the right "feel".

No, but Obamabucks sounds great!

347 Silvergirl  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:08:17pm

re: #280 gulfloafer

I think Romney's still electable among conservatives. When he ceded to McCain at CPAC he positioned himself as a front runner for 2012. If the country keeps on the path it's going, fiscally, it's going to need a whole lot of fixing. The guy has business sense and a track record to back it up.

In also think he's savvy enough to have make mental notes--and probably well documented written ones--about mistakes made in the '08 campaign, and he'll be ready. He's on to Huckabee's shady dealings for starters. If we need to wait for Huntsman to finish the China appointment, Romney may have an even better chance.

348 debutaunt  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:08:52pm

re: #346 itellu3times

No, but Obamabucks sounds great!

Little Hoovervilles - 'bamavilles.

349 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:09:30pm

re: #342 Sharmuta

He might get called a RINO by some, but I think "kook" will be a hard one to stick.

I was being overly self-referential, sorry.

350 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:09:38pm

re: #237 Cato the Elder

How can anyone deny the existence of Christian anti-Semitism? Just read the vaunted Martin Luther. For one minor example.

Sadly, it's not a long walk from either the Catholic or Protestant churches to Jew hatred and persecution. There's at least a thousand years of examples ranging from forcing Jews into squalor and second-class citizenship all the way through to attempts at extermination.

I'm not sure the Scotsman's Argument rejection holds water here, however. The claim "No true Scotsman would do such a thing" is a fallacy because the definition of a True Scotsman doesn't preclude such an act. In the case of a Christian, one can claim that the definition of a True Christian does, in fact, preclude such things as anti-semitic thoughts or deeds by way of things like admonishments to love your neighbor, turn the other cheek and on and on. I suppose it's equally possible to argue that the claim is fallacious simply because the definition of Christianity is so broad and varied as to useless in such a case. But I tend to lean toward the notion that it is possible to exclude some acts on the grounds that their perpetrators are not True Christians because it is possible to extract a plausible definition of a True Christian that demonstrably forbids such acts.

351 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:10:20pm

BBL

Got to go to work, make big show, make happy patrons, that's shoe business.

352 itellu3times  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:10:22pm

re: #337 Dirk Diggler

Dr. Nouriel Roubini must be one of those Paulian, Tea Party, "right wing" extremists (even though he supports Obama and inexplicably cheerleads for his economic policies).

Dr. Roubini: "I think people are deluding themselves."

Of course people are deluding themselves, so what else is new?

But Roubini is just this year's Doctor Doom. He's going to take the downside come what may. Whether that turns our right or wrong, has little do to with his choice of position. So, he's been right a couple of times in the last year, a stopped clock is right twice a day.

353 jcm  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:10:43pm

re: #345 hazzyday

What you would want to do is present the biblical and cultural reasons for the institution of marriage. A materialistic view of marriage and a divine view. Sin versus facility. I don't think the gay rights people accept your view of 'rights'. That will make it difficult for that type of idea to gain acceptance. Especially when girls just kissed a girl.

The quote in the Bible I read recently implies that marriage is of an earthly realm and not of the divine realm. That would be counter to my views but I believe I read it in Luke.

Biblical marriage was instituted by God for man, please note it was the only institution made by God before the fall. Marriage is in the earthly realm, and it represents in that realm the relationship between God and his people.

354 jcm  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:10:58pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

BBL

Got to go to work, make big show, make happy patrons, that's shoe business.

Break a leg Walter!

355 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:11:07pm

re: #337 Dirk Diggler

Dr. Nouriel Roubini must be one of those Paulian, Tea Party, "right wing" extremists (even though he supports Obama and inexplicably cheerleads for his economic policies).

Dr. Roubini: "I think people are deluding themselves."

Coincidentally enough, yes. Go to his blog and look at his blog roll. Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Judge Napolitano. They're all there.

356 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:12:11pm

re: #349 wrenchwench

I was being overly self-referential, sorry.

I got ya.

I first came across Governor Huntsman by looking up another goper, and ended up reading more on Humtsman. He's anti-ID, so that was enough right there to get me to look deeper. I haven't found anything so far that makes me think less of him- he's pro-science, supports equal rights, fiscally strong. These are things I'm looking for, and I'm sad to see them off the table for 2012.

357 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:12:44pm

re: #340 rightymouse

You are scary in your ignorance re: economics/free markets.


Thanks.
Just a tip; If you are going to type out a long rant you need to put the insult at the end. I stopped reading after the first line so you wasted your time.

358 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:12:47pm

re: #347 Silvergirl

In also think he's savvy enough to have make mental notes--and probably well documented written ones--about mistakes made in the '08 campaign, and he'll be ready. He's on to Huckabee's shady dealings for starters. If we need to wait for Huntsman to finish the China appointment, Romney may have an even better chance.

If you recall McCain & Huckabee chidishly ganged up on Romney during the debates. There is no way he would not have run a better campaign than McCain. At times McCain seemed like an Obama supporter.

359 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:14:01pm

re: #352 itellu3times

I just looked at his blog. He's a nutjob. I'm sure he's very smart but he's quite insane.

360 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:15:15pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Thanks.
Just a tip; If you are going to type out a long rant you need to put the insult at the end. I stopped reading after the first line so you wasted your time.

Good point. I'll apply your tip to anything you write since, not having bothered to vote at all, your opinion means considerably less than squat to me.

361 nyc redneck  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:15:56pm

re: #344 opnion

That's the thing , he is who he told us he is. People who voted for him & now say, "But I didn't know" make my teeth itch.

he suckered people w/ the finesse of a true ponzi scheming grifter.
all the promises he made. all the hope-n-change rhetoric, left open to interpretation by the voter. he worked a sinister magic on them.
and so they ignored all the obvious signs that he was a devious, double talking,
self promoting con artist who did constantly indicate he had no real patriotism
for america.
all the stars lined up perfectly for him to succeed in his scam.
and fck the msm.
they have so much responsibility for bringing us to this dangerous point in history.
we just have to get thru it.

362 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:16:20pm

Google cache: Nouriel Roubini blog

363 lawhawk  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:17:11pm

Huntsman has done a pretty good job dealing with the economy in Utah, and has managed to get the state to impose a single rate tax over the past couple of years - switching away from a graduated income tax. Easier to compute.

This is clearly designed to sideline Huntsman going into 2012, but it could backfire since it gives Huntsman foreign policy experience and dealing with the largest trading partner in the world.

364 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:18:53pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

I got ya.

I first came across Governor Huntsman by looking up another goper, and ended up reading more on Humtsman. He's anti-ID, so that was enough right there to get me to look deeper. I haven't found anything so far that makes me think less of him- he's pro-science, supports equal rights, fiscally strong. These are things I'm looking for, and I'm sad to see them off the table for 2012.

Mitch Daniels wrote an op-ed in the WSJ friday..Said he would never run for public office again...America's loss..one of the good guys

365 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:22:00pm

re: #362 Killgore Trout

Google cache: Nouriel Roubini blog

/it's a spoof

366 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:22:09pm

re: #361 nyc redneck

he suckered people w/ the finesse of a true ponzi scheming grifter.
all the promises he made. all the hope-n-change rhetoric, left open to interpretation by the voter. he worked a sinister magic on them.
and so they ignored all the obvious signs that he was a devious, double talking,
self promoting con artist who did constantly indicate he had no real patriotism
for america.
all the stars lined up perfectly for him to succeed in his scam.
and fck the msm.
they have so much responsibility for bringing us to this dangerous point in history.
we just have to get thru it.

Your point about the media is dead on, they salved lots of doubts.
Bad associations? Forget it, that's just guilt through association.
Lack of experience? No, no that's Palin
Far Left record? No, no he's just nuanced.
The MSM came close to saying, "Just shut up and vote for Obama!"

367 redc1c4  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:23:41pm

re: #358 opnion

If you recall McCain & Huckabee chidishly ganged up on Romney during the debates. There is no way he would not have run a better campaign than McCain. At times McCain seemsed like is an Obama supporter.

FTFY.

368 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:24:07pm

re: #288 Iron Fist

I've always really liked him. I honestly think it's a really basic thing that sets some people off.

I think it's because he's so damn alpha.

369 redc1c4  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:24:32pm

re: #367 redc1c4

FTFY.


seamed
PIFW

370 jcm  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:24:38pm

re: #366 opnion

Your point about the media is dead on, they salved lots of doubts.
Bad associations? Forget it, that's just guilt through association.
Lack of experience? No, no that's Palin
Far Left record? No, no he's just nuanced.
The MSM came close to saying, "Just shut up and vote for Obama!"

You forgot one...

You're a bitter clingy racist if you don't vote O!

371 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:24:46pm

re: #368 Cattt

I've always really liked him. I honestly think it's a really basic thing that sets some people off.

I think it's because he's so damn alpha.

We need more alphas.

372 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:24:54pm

Nouriel Roubini

/and no, I'm not a fan of his at all

373 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:24:58pm

re: #363 lawhawk

This is clearly designed to sideline Huntsman going into 2012, but it could backfire since it gives Huntsman foreign policy experience and dealing with the largest trading partner in the world.

I agree this is a great move for Huntsman- not sure if 2012 is likely now, though.

Bush I was ambassador to China as well- it's a great stepping stone. I would be surprised at such a plum appointment, except I doubt if the country being offered was less than incredible, Huntsman would have turned it down. Perhaps 0bama thought he was getting stiff competition out of the way, but perhaps instead he's handed an incredible opportunity to a future leader.

374 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:26:05pm

re: #365 Killian Bundy

/it's a spoof

That blog is a spoof? I clicked for the current page. Looked real to me. And I've seen his "Monitor" before.

375 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:26:27pm

re: #359 Killgore Trout

I just looked at his blog. He's a nutjob. I'm sure he's very smart but he's quite insane.

/that's not his blog, nice try though

376 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:28:12pm

re: #374 wrenchwench

That blog is a spoof? I clicked for the current page. Looked real to me. And I've seen his "Monitor" before.

Nouriel Roubini

/this is his blog

377 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:32:03pm

re: #359 Killgore Trout

I just looked at his blog. He's a nutjob. I'm sure he's very smart but he's quite insane.

Where's your degree from?

378 shiek al beif salami  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:32:25pm

re: #190 WhiteRasta

Carp Diem; seize the fish.

379 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:32:50pm

re: #378 shiek al beif salami

Carp Diem; seize the fish.

Caviar Emptor

380 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:33:03pm

re: #374 wrenchwench

That blog is a spoof? I clicked for the current page. Looked real to me. And I've seen his "Monitor" before.

/actually, it's more of a Roubini "stalker" blog

381 wrenchwench  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:34:13pm

re: #376 Killian Bundy

Nouriel Roubini

/this is his blog

Thanks. So that other blog is a fake, and all the matching, interlinked ones too? Looks like somebody's idea of cross-promotion. The innernut is a weird place.

382 redc1c4  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:34:27pm

re: #373 Sharmuta

I agree this is a great move for Huntsman- not sure if 2012 is likely now, though.

Bush I was ambassador to China as well- it's a great stepping stone. I would be surprised at such a plum appointment, except I doubt if the country being offered was less than incredible, Huntsman would have turned it down. Perhaps 0bama thought he was getting stiff competition out of the way, but perhaps instead he's handed an incredible opportunity to a future leader.

2012 or 2016, the last thing the Republicans need is a RINO candidate.

McLame proved the fallacy of that tactic once and for all.

383 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:34:29pm

re: #323 capitalist piglet

Thank you for demonstrating your depth of understanding of the teachings of Christ.

Good grief, avanti.

You got me there. I've been in a church maybe a dozen times, all for weddings. I should not have been so flip as to try and make a funny.

384 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:34:40pm

re: #378 shiek al beif salami

Carp Diem; seize the fish.

Actually, I think that would mean fish of the day...or something like that...
:)

385 redc1c4  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:35:34pm

re: #379 LGoPs

Caviar Emptor

carp, carp, carp...

/channeling KB

386 Render  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:36:36pm

This is The State of the Free Republic?

"Yep. Lot's of those leftwing Jews hang there (at LGF), the ones who would want a Palestinian state, vote for Obama. Strange bunch.
27 posted on Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:30:46 PM by Nathan Zachary"

===

I can state with absolute confidence that there are no registered LGF lizards, Jewish or otherwise, who would want a Palestinian state in place of the nation of Israel. I can also state with complete confidence that such has never been the policy of LGF or its owner Mr. Charles Johnson while I've been here.

I'm pretty sure that Avanti, who clearly and all too obviously does not speak for LGF or any of its other registered members, is the only registered LGFer that openly admits to voting for Obama.

Which means that Nathan Zachary hasn't a single clue about what he's typing. A quick perusal of his postings from September 2004 only confirm that as he utterly ignored LGF's contributions to taking down Dan Rather and John Kerry.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

===

The Right wing calls me a Left wing Jew (Codeword: Dreaded Neocon). The Left wing calls me a Right wing Jew (Codeword: Evil NeoCon). The only way two wings can fly is if they agree with each other and the only thing those two wings agree on is that I'm a Jew. Oddly enough I'm sure I've read about that very phenomena in recent history books. A lot of recent history books.

SYMBOL
OF
SALVATION,
R

387 redc1c4  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:36:45pm

re: #383 avanti

You got me there. I've been in a church maybe a dozen times, all for weddings. I should not have been so flip as to try and make a funny.

and yet, most of your posts are amusing, even though you're trying to be serious.

388 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:37:15pm

re: #381 wrenchwench

Thanks. So that other blog is a fake, and all the matching, interlinked ones too? Looks like somebody's idea of cross-promotion. The innernut is a weird place.

It's a real blog.

/it's just a Roubini "stalker" blog

389 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:37:17pm

re: #382 redc1c4

2012 or 2016, the last thing the Republicans need is a RINO candidate.

McLame proved the fallacy of that tactic once and for all.

Governor Huntsman is not a RINO.

390 redc1c4  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:37:54pm

re: #386 Render

This is The State of the Free Republic?

"Yep. Lot's of those leftwing Jews hang there (at LGF), the ones who would want a Palestinian state, vote for Obama. Strange bunch.
27 posted on Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:30:46 PM by Nathan Zachary"

===

I can state with absolute confidence that there are no registered LGF lizards, Jewish or otherwise, who would want a Palestinian state in place of the nation of Israel. I can also state with complete confidence that such has never been the policy of LGF or its owner Mr. Charles Johnson while I've been here.

I'm pretty sure that Avanti, who clearly and all too obviously does not speak for LGF or any of its other registered members, is the only registered LGFer that openly admits to voting for Obama.

Which means that Nathan Zachary hasn't a single clue about what he's typing. A quick perusal of his postings from September 2004 only confirm that as he utterly ignored LGF's contributions to taking down Dan Rather and John Kerry.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

===

The Right wing calls me a Left wing Jew (Codeword: Dreaded Neocon). The Left wing calls me a Right wing Jew (Codeword: Evil NeoCon). The only way two wings can fly is if they agree with each other and the only thing those two wings agree on is that I'm a Jew. Oddly enough I'm sure I've read about that very phenomena in recent history books. A lot of recent history books.

SYMBOL
OF
SALVATION,
R

long time no see... how you been?

391 redc1c4  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:39:45pm

re: #389 Sharmuta

Governor Huntsman is not a RINO.

he's in favor of "cap and trade".

that, and he's w*rking for Ear Leader.

looks like a RINO to me.

392 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:40:39pm

Parents go to court to prevent child's receiving Chemotherapy. Judge gives the child a chance to live.

Over the last week, I've written about the case of a 13-year-old chemotherapy refusenik named Daniel Hauser, who lives in Minnesota. After having been diagnosed with a highly curable form of cancer, Hodgkin's lymphoma, back in February and having undergone one cycle of chemotherapy that apparently made him very sick, he refused further chemotherapy and his mother actually went to court to justify this decision. As part of their justification, they tried to use freedom of religion based on Daniel's supposedly being a "medicine man" in a cult of faux Native American wannabes...Finally, he [the judge] points out that Daniel can't read and clearly lacks anything close to the ability to give informed consent, the latter of which is a hallmark of deciding whether a patient is competent to make his own medical decisions.

393 shiek al beif salami  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:42:09pm

re: #392 SteveC

must be a member of Ward Churchill's tribe.

394 Render  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #390 redc1c4

Just cuz you don't see me doesn't mean I'm not here.

BUSY
BUSY
BUSY,
R

395 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #382 redc1c4

2012 or 2016, the last thing the Republicans need is a RINO candidate.

McLame proved the fallacy of that tactic once and for all.

That would be believable if McCain had lost by a wide margin. But the popular vote tally was 53% versus 46%, not all that wide. If McCain had shifted just 3% of those voting over to his side, he would have won.

And this from a man who was seriously outspent and who faced a tremendous uphill battle running in Bush's wake, not to mention running a disorganized campaign.

Look at a Gaussian distribution some time. Running for the fringe is a great strategy - during the primaries. General elections, however, are all about the middle; it is impossible to win without carrying moderates.

396 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:43:35pm

Watching MLB Channel..The 75 world series..between the Sox and big red machine...It is awesome...Most everybody playing is a Hall of Famer...We'll never see that again in our lifetime...Tied game!
/Don't tell me who wins!

397 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:44:04pm

re: #393 shiek al beif salami

must be a member of Ward Churchill's tribe.

I have no idea. These folks are not in left field, they are in the parking lot behind the bleachers!

398 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:44:05pm

re: #391 redc1c4

You're calling him a RINO based on this?

While conservative on social issues, Huntsman takes more centrist positions on the environment and gay rights. He shocked the Republican Party last year by announcing support for civil unions. He supported a regional cap-and-trade effort to reduce global warming, and has called on his party not to reject science showing that climate change is real.

Really- I would think we could discuss these issues and find some agreement without resorting to name calling. Not rejecting the science out of hand on climate change is a position that's being held up by more than a few people who have earned my respect. And I don't think they're RINOs.

399 LesLein  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:44:56pm

Speaking of climate change, I recently came across the following quotes:

"in the next 50 years, the fine dust man constantly puts into the atmosphere by fossil fuel-burning could screen out so much sunlight that the average temperature could drop by six degrees ... if sustained over several years -- five to ten -- such temperature decrease could be sufficient to trigger an ice age." Dr, S. I. Rasool, quoted in Washington Post July 9, 1971 article "U.S. Scientist Sees New Ice Age Coming". Rasool based his research in part on a computer model developed by James Hansen.

Title of Time Magazine article, June 24, 1974: "Another Ice Age."

Newsweek article, April 28, 1975: "The Cooling World":

"The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth's climate seems to be cooling down."

Same policy objective, same scare tactics. different scare.

MIT professor Richard Lindzen puts things in perspective:

"With respect to science, the assumption behind consensus is that science is a source of authority. Rather, it is a particularly effective approach to inquiry and analysis. Skepticism is essential to science; consensus is foreign. When in 1988 Newsweek announced that all scientists agreed about global warming, this should have been a red flag of warning. Among other things, global warming is such a multifaceted issue that agreement on all or many aspects would be unreasonable."

400 capitalist piglet  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:45:09pm

re: #386 Render

Though there don't seem to be many, avanti isn't the only Obama voter on LGF.

401 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:45:13pm

re: #396 HoosierHoops

Watching MLB Channel..The 75 world series..between the Sox and big red machine...It is awesome...Most everybody playing is a Hall of Famer...We'll never see that again in our lifetime...Tied game!
/Don't tell me who wins!

I think it was called because of darkness... or rain. I forget.

402 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:46:17pm

re: #400 capitalist piglet

Though there don't seem to be many, avanti isn't the only Obama voter on LGF.

True that.

403 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:46:32pm

King Crimson "Thela Hun Ginjeet"

404 shiek al beif salami  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:46:41pm

re: #399 LesLein

It's not about climate change; it's about misusing science to grab power and money.

405 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:47:02pm

If he's such a RINO, I don't see why it should matter if he's taking this job. The party wouldn't vote for him anyways. If I was in his shoes, I'd give the party the finger too.

406 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:47:22pm

re: #389 Sharmuta

Governor Huntsman is not a RINO.

They're calling him much worse than that over at MM's site. Not surprising, that; just pathetic.

407 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:47:22pm

re: #382 redc1c4

2012 or 2016, the last thing the Republicans need is a RINO candidate.

McLame proved the fallacy of that tactic once and for all.

RINO?!

408 Render  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:47:40pm

re: #400 capitalist piglet

Hence the "pretty sure" as opposed to "absolute" or "complete confidence."

CHOSEN
CAREFULLY,
R

409 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #406 SixDegrees

They're calling him much worse than that over at MM's site. Not surprising, that; just pathetic.

With such lovely allies as that, why wouldn't you give them the finger?

410 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:48:27pm

re: #399 LesLein

Whew!

Thank goodness for Global Warmening™!

411 shiek al beif salami  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:49:09pm

re: #410 Racer X

Climate change I can believe in!

412 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:49:16pm

re: #392 SteveC

Parents go to court to prevent child's receiving Chemotherapy. Judge gives the child a chance to live.

Precisely the same argument can - and should - be made in cases where whacks like Jenny McCarthy refuse to have their children immunized against disease.

413 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:49:35pm

re: #399 LesLein

MIT professor Richard Lindzen puts things in perspective:

"With respect to science, the assumption behind consensus is that science is a source of authority. Rather, it is a particularly effective approach to inquiry and analysis. Skepticism is essential to science; consensus is foreign. When in 1988 Newsweek announced that all scientists agreed about global warming, this should have been a red flag of warning. Among other things, global warming is such a multifaceted issue that agreement on all or many aspects would be unreasonable."

I certainly agree that skepticism should be one of the cardinal virtues in science. Consensus is essentially meaningless. A few hundred years ago there was consensus that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. The consensus had absolutely no bearing on the reality.

414 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:49:41pm

re: #395 SixDegrees

Running for the fringe is a great strategy - during the primaries. General elections, however, are all about the middle; it is impossible to win without carrying moderates.

Yes, although, carrying the moderates is different from being a moderate. Obama was the most radical, extreme presidential nominee I can remember, but he beat McCain, the quintessential centrist. Because, I would argue, American politics is no longer about issues and ideology. It's now about the MSM's marketing.

Nevertheless, I think your point is correct. Obama outspent McCain by a factor of something like seven, AND had the entire MSM running an almost Stalinist campaign of misinformation for him, and he still didn't win the popular vote by all that much (52% to 46%, versus 51% to 48% in the Bush versus Kerry election). And all the polls I saw had McCain doing better than any other Republican in the general election.

415 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:50:28pm

THIS is why we're losing. Decent republicans with their heads screwed on straight are marginalized and/or belittled, so they don't bother.

416 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:51:03pm

re: #387 redc1c4

and yet, most of your posts are amusing, even though you're trying to be serious.

I would expect them to be, some posts on here are as amusing to me, as all of mine must be to you. On occasion, we agree, and that's the fun part. i.e. most on this thread, think the Utah governor is a pretty competent politician.

417 SixDegrees  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:51:16pm

re: #409 Sharmuta

With such lovely allies as that, why wouldn't you give them the finger?

It's really awful over there these days. They're intent on creating a tiny echo chamber for themselves.

I am not Mr. Popular over there on the rare occasions I visit.

418 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:52:28pm

re: #417 SixDegrees

It's really awful over there these days. They're intent on creating a tiny echo chamber for themselves.

I am not Mr. Popular over there on the rare occasions I visit.

You know- some people don't like it when you challenge them to think.

419 shiek al beif salami  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:52:35pm

re: #413 LGoPs

You don't need to go back that far. 70 years ago there was a lot of consensus about improving the human race through eugenics. And last November, there was a consensus that OBama was the best man for the job.

420 Aye Pod  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:53:04pm

re: #403 Racer X

If someone had played that to me I'd have assumed it was an obscure Talking Heads track.

421 Irenicum  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:53:23pm

re: #202 pink freud

One of the best Seinfeld episodes EVER!

422 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:54:12pm

Brandon's Law

He was a teenage boy and when he discovered a lump in his groin he didn’t mention it to his parents.

Today, a proposed Illinois law, Senate Bill 1665, is named after Brandon Ballard, who died of testicular cancer last November at the age of 19.

The bill has sailed through the legislature and awaits Gov. Pat Quinn’s signature. It would require high school health classes to teach students about cancer. Also, it would mandate testicular examinations when male student athletes get physicals at school.

That may not make teenage boys in Illinois very happy, but it could be a lifesaver.

Brandon waited two years to tell his parents about the growth he’d found and did so only when his girlfriend insisted that he not keep quiet about it any longer.

Of course, you do have that certain segment of the population who will be up in arms, wondering what the hell that girl was doing checking out what he had in his pants. *sigh*

423 UberInfidel67  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:54:46pm

More fun from San Fran: NSFW

[Link: sfweekly.com...]

424 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:54:47pm

re: #398 Sharmuta

You're calling him a RINO based on this?

Really- I would think we could discuss these issues and find some agreement without resorting to name calling. Not rejecting the science out of hand on climate change is a position that's being held up by more than a few people who have earned my respect. And I don't think they're RINOs.

I'll ruffle feathers here by saying this, but I think "RINO" is starting to join "neocon" as a term that conveys little meaning, except that (1) it's clearly meant as some sort of insult, and (2) it confers a certain absence of sophistication on the part of the person using the term.

425 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:54:49pm

re: #406 SixDegrees

They're calling him much worse than that over at MM's site. Not surprising, that; just pathetic.

I guess the new definition of a RINO is a electable Republican.

426 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:54:58pm

BUCKETHEAD

427 pingjockey  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:54:59pm

re: #418 Sharmuta

Thinking hurts!

428 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:55:09pm

re: #392 SteveC

Parents go to court to prevent child's receiving Chemotherapy. Judge gives the child a chance to live.

He's 13 and cannot read? There is more than medical neglect going on in that family.

429 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:55:18pm

re: #407 MandyManners

RINO?!

I know of plenty of RINOs, but I hardly ever see any DINOs. Have they gone extinct?

430 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:55:19pm

Psyence: Why don't you come out here and speak your mind instead of serially down-dinging like a coward?

431 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:55:31pm

re: #367 redc1c4

FTFY.

Better

432 austin_blue  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:55:37pm

re: #414 Last Mohican

Yes, although, carrying the moderates is different from being a moderate. Obama was the most radical, extreme presidential nominee I can remember, but he beat McCain, the quintessential centrist. Because, I would argue, American politics is no longer about issues and ideology. It's now about the MSM's marketing.

Nevertheless, I think your point is correct. Obama outspent McCain by a factor of something like seven, AND had the entire MSM running an almost Stalinist campaign of misinformation for him, and he still didn't win the popular vote by all that much (52% to 46%, versus 51% to 48% in the Bush versus Kerry election). And all the polls I saw had McCain doing better than any other Republican in the general election.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on your central point. *If* the MSM is so powerful, and Obama so radical, why did not more centrist D's (Gore and Kerry) clean Bush's clock in '00 and '04? You can't have it both ways!

433 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:56:55pm

re: #429 SteveC

I know of plenty of RINOs, but I hardly ever see any DINOs. Have they gone extinct?

Seems lke it.

434 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:57:16pm

re: #430 pink freud

Psyence: Why don't you come out here and speak your mind instead of serially down-dinging like a coward?

Who is it dinging?

435 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:57:29pm

re: #424 Last Mohican

I'll ruffle feathers here by saying this, but I think "RINO" is starting to join "neocon" as a term that conveys little meaning, except that (1) it's clearly meant as some sort of insult, and (2) it confers a certain absence of sophistication on the part of the person using the term.

I keep asking for a definition of a RINO, and people keep confusing that with telling me what the anagram stands for. I know what RINO stands for- but what does it mean? What positions must one hold to be considered such a thing?

436 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:57:47pm

re: #434 MandyManners

You. Me.

437 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:58:04pm

Israel may accept two state solution.

Link.

438 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:58:16pm

re: #436 pink freud

You. Me.

Fuck 'im.

439 pingjockey  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:58:18pm

re: #432 austin_blue
Because Goreacle and Jon Fuckin Kerry were idiots and the msm was still in the tank for them. However, most of the electorate realized they were walking cluster fucks and voted for Bush.

440 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:58:26pm

re: #436 pink freud

You. Me.

I'll make up for it a little...
:)

441 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:59:00pm

re: #437 avanti

Israel may accept two state solution.

Link.

So what?

/Hamas won't

442 Altermite  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:59:05pm

re: #433 MandyManners

Seems lke it.

Part of the trick in not having -INOs is not calling people -INOs.

The closest thing I can think of is lieberman, and it was more a few beltways that took a whack at him than the actual base.

443 pingjockey  Sat, May 16, 2009 12:59:12pm

re: #435 Sharmuta
Olympia Snow comes to mind. Arlen Spector. Etc...IMO.

444 Aye Pod  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:00:31pm

Ofra Haza - Galbi

445 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:00:57pm

re: #370 jcm

You forgot one...

You're a bitter clingy racist if you don't vote O!

Well heck yeah, your a racist if you disagree with him.
Garafalo called the Tea Parties , "racism , straight up."

446 pingjockey  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:01:25pm

New thread! RoPMA shows its face.

447 MandyManners  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:01:36pm

re: #435 Sharmuta

I keep asking for a definition of a RINO, and people keep confusing that with telling me what the anagram stands for. I know what RINO stands for- but what does it mean? What positions must one hold to be considered such a thing?

Here!

448 Racer X  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:01:56pm

re: #432 austin_blue

I'm going to have to disagree with you on your central point. *If* the MSM is so powerful, and Obama so radical, why did not more centrist D's (Gore and Kerry) clean Bush's clock in '00 and '04? You can't have it both ways!

Uh, Hello?

Obama outspent McCain by a factor of something like seven, AND had the entire MSM running an almost Stalinist campaign of misinformation for him,

Obama had the money.

449 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:02:55pm

Thanks, Charles. It seems to be disappeared. Zero comments from it, ever.

450 Gitarzan  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:03:16pm

re: #219 Cato the Elder

Think that's fun? Try saying something unflattering about Dick Cheney.

Were you born a dickhead or did you have to work at it?

/you just can't let the "Darth Cheney" meme go, can you?

451 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:03:38pm

Now this is a cool doc!

The magic band aid

One such 4 year old tyke in “Incredible Hulk” slippers was carried in by his mother after slamming the tip of his middle finger in a door. The mother kind of freaked out when it bled, but fortunately for the kid, the door just clipped the very tip of his finger. Small piece of skin ripped off, but nothing needing stitches and no broken bones...

“Hey, show the nurse your magic Band-Aid,” I told him.
He proudly held up his middle finger to show her. Mom busted out laughing. The nurse gave me a half-smirk and rolled her eyes. Of course, seeing that he could make his mom laugh, he left the room and was flipping random people off as he walked down the hall, saying “Look!” No idea what he was doing (I hope) but everyone’s laughter just made him do it more.

452 HoosierHoops  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:04:42pm

Dr. C is taking on the Science of Angels and Demons..
Leave it to a world class physicists to take on a product of fiction..But I learned something new i never knew before..and this applies to the LHC.
From his post:
Such misconceptions run throughout the book. Elsewhere, it is explicitly stated that particle physics is about smashing things together in order to see what’s inside. This is completely wrong – in experimental particle physics, exotic new particles are created out of the energy of reaction (e.g. antiquarks do not exist inside protons, they are created out of the energy of proton-proton collisions). Much of the discussion of antimatter also contains errors..


Who knew? Dr. C rocks
[Link: coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com...]

453 SteveC  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:05:04pm

re: #445 opnion

Well heck yeah, your a racist if you disagree with him.
Garafalo called the Tea Parties , "racism , straight up."

I like to get my racism like they did in the old cowboy movies: "Just give me a glass and the bottle and leave me alone, barkeep."

454 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:05:33pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

THIS is why we're losing. Decent republicans with their heads screwed on straight are marginalized and/or belittled, so they don't bother.

Exactly.

Mainstream Republican ideals are popular, but we're becoming no more than a collection of absolutists, who have their own issues, and refuse to support anyone who does not support their issues 100%.

Romney was too Morman, Rudy was too pro-choice, McCain was too moderate. Bottom line was that we ended up with McCain, because he was "next in line" and now Obama is President. How's that working out for us?

455 Altermite  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:06:05pm

re: #450 talon_262

Were you born a dickhead or did you have to work at it?

/you just can't let the "Darth Cheney" meme go, can you?

Palpatine made the hyperspace transit shuttles run on time.

456 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:06:41pm

re: #432 austin_blue

I'm going to have to disagree with you on your central point. *If* the MSM is so powerful, and Obama so radical, why did not more centrist D's (Gore and Kerry) clean Bush's clock in '00 and '04? You can't have it both ways!

A good point. The MSM hadn't yet turned itself into an information-suppressing messiah-worship machine in 2000 and 2004, but it was gently spinning against Bush. And I agree that Bush was, generically speaking, farther from the center than Gore. Maybe Kerry. And yet Bush still won both times.

But my point was mainly to argue against the "RINOs don't help the GOP, because they do worse in general elections" argument. There's no way to test my hypothesis with general election results, although the polls about hypothetical general 2008 general election matchups do support me, in that McCain "did better" against either Democratic contender than the more right-wing Republicans would have.

I guess my argument would predict that a moderate like McCain might have done even better against Gore or Kerry than Bush did. I'm sure there were polls that looked at that, back in 2000 and 2004, although I don't remember what they showed.

457 Last Mohican  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:09:19pm

re: #447 MandyManners

Here!

Clearly British. That's maybe a "conservative party in name only" (CPINO), not a RINO.

458 itellu3times  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:09:43pm

re: #288 Iron Fist

I've never really understood the irrational hatred that the Left have for Cheney. True, he isn't any kind of Lftist, and for many on the Left that is a good enough reason to hate people. But Cheney never really did anything hard right. The VP has very little power or influence (who was it that said it wasn't worth a "bucket of warm spit"?). The Bush Administration wasn't a puppet government with Cheney pulling all of the strings in the background. That is a paranoid fantasy.

Perhaps because he's ill, they attack him like a pack of wild dogs attacks any weakling.

459 Former Belgian  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:09:50pm

re: #85 LGoPs

What's prog-metal?

A musical genre that combines some stylistic elements of heavy metal, with some of the musical substance of progressive rock. Dream Theater (one of my favorite bands) is probably the best-known representative.

The almighty RUSH was in many ways a harbinger, although in term of "metal-ness" their sound barely rated hard rock.

Opeth (another of my favorites) is often miscalled a "death metal" band, but their sound has as much of 1970s prog-rock bands (particularly Camel and Pink Floyd) as of Scandinavian metal.

460 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:10:06pm

re: #416 avanti

Even though you are wrong most of the time (hee hee hee), you belong. You are a lizardoid. One thing I like about LGF is it is not an echo chamber. A lot of the sites that criticize Charles ARE same and shout down people who are not with the program of the day. Here, I like to think we debate in a civil manner for the most part.

461 Catttt  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:10:43pm

re: #458 itellu3times

Perhaps because he's ill, they attack him like a pack of wild dogs attacks any weakling.

Typical beta behavior.

462 opnion  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:10:59pm

re: #437 avanti

Israel may accept two state solution.

Link.

It might make sense if the new Palistinian state is just off of Tasmania.

463 pink freud  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:13:20pm

You're a sweetheart, Miss Reine. :-)

464 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:14:49pm

re: #450 talon_262

Were you born a dickhead or did you have to work at it?

/you just can't let the "Darth Cheney" meme go, can you?

No more than X number of people here can let go of the "Obama's a commie who's comin' for yer freeedoms" horsehockey.

You wide vocabulary and scintillating wit duly noted.

465 MacDuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:15:49pm

re: #456 Last Mohican

A good point. The MSM hadn't yet turned itself into an information-suppressing messiah-worship machine in 2000 and 2004, but it was gently spinning against Bush. And I agree that Bush was, generically speaking, farther from the center than Gore. Maybe Kerry. And yet Bush still won both times.

But my point was mainly to argue against the "RINOs don't help the GOP, because they do worse in general elections" argument. There's no way to test my hypothesis with general election results, although the polls about hypothetical general 2008 general election matchups do support me, in that McCain "did better" against either Democratic contender than the more right-wing Republicans would have.

I guess my argument would predict that a moderate like McCain might have done even better against Gore or Kerry than Bush did. I'm sure there were polls that looked at that, back in 2000 and 2004, although I don't remember what they showed.

I also tink that the MSM was simply in love with the idea of electing the first black President and I think a lot of America was as well. It was a perfect storm; a young, attractive and very savvy black liberal, against McCain. That, coupled with frothing BDS that had been brewing for 8 years made Obama pretty much a foregone conclusion. It's really pretty amazing that McCain did as well as he did.

466 Spare O'Lake  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:20:31pm

re: #462 opnion

It might make sense if the new Palistinian state is just off of Tasmania.

I thought ANWR might be nice for them, and then they can do some cap trades and drill for oil too./

467 avanti  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:21:37pm

re: #460 Cattt

Even though you are wrong most of the time (hee hee hee), you belong. You are a lizardoid. One thing I like about LGF is it is not an echo chamber. A lot of the sites that criticize Charles ARE same and shout down people who are not with the program of the day. Here, I like to think we debate in a civil manner for the most part.

Yep, that's why I'm here. As far as the shouting down, you have to earn your colors so to speak. It gets more pleasant as the weeks go by, and folks find out I'm neither not going away, or going to crap on Charles's carpet.

468 Frater Eosphoros  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:28:09pm

A pasty for when things go south with the chicom. A pathological refusal to accept blame when things tank.

469 Former Belgian  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:37:53pm

re: #174 FurryOldGuyJeans

When caught being a horse's ass, blame Bush:

Pelosi tries to backpedal on CIA criticism

Calling Pelosi a horse's ass is an insult to horses.

470 Former Belgian  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:39:46pm

re: #441 Killian Bundy

So what?

/Hamas won't

471 zeebeach  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:42:35pm

re: #177 Charles

Thank you. There's no reason at all why you should care whether your list concurs with mine, I just haven't considered top GOP politicians to be creationists in general, though I know many are not averse to having creationism presented in the classroom as a theory (which I don't agree with, BTW). I did not know that either Jindal or Pawlenty were "creationists", though they definitely fit into the "open to teaching creationism" category. I'm sorry if my question seemed offensive (if it did). Just educating myself.

472 Former Belgian  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:48:55pm

re: #392 SteveC

Parents go to court to prevent child's receiving Chemotherapy. Judge gives the child a chance to live.

We had a case in Israel of some nutjob woman turned some sort of New Age Kabbalah meets ultra-Orthodox whose child died of bacterial pneumonia because she and her live-in (female) "spiritual advisor" did not want him treated by antibiotics. If it were up to me she would rot in jail for the rest of her miserable life --- even though technically what she did at most qualifies as "manslaughter".

473 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:49:00pm

re: #460 Cattt

Even though you are wrong most of the time (hee hee hee), you belong. You are a lizardoid. One thing I like about LGF is it is not an echo chamber. A lot of the sites that criticize Charles ARE same and shout down people who are not with the program of the day. Here, I like to think we debate in a civil manner for the most part.

Actually, Cattt- I've found that those who usually scream the loudest that LGF is an "echo chamber" are usually doing so from their own echo chamber. I believe it's called "projection".

474 Former Belgian  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:50:48pm

re: #448 Racer X

Obama had the money.

I think it was Jerry Pournelle who wrote: "0bama did not steal the election: his friends bought it for him with good money."

475 LGoPs  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:53:47pm

re: #467 avanti

Yep, that's why I'm here. As far as the shouting down, you have to earn your colors so to speak. It gets more pleasant as the weeks go by, and folks find out I'm neither not going away, or going to crap on Charles's carpet.

You're still here...damn.
/ *just kidding*

476 Zimriel  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:55:40pm

I suspect it's not just Huntsman's advisors hoping for a 2012 shellacking but rather the East Coast Republican establishment. Maybe those advisors in this article are from outside Utah...?

The RNC is treading water; allowing its moderates to go underground and/or to serve under Obama. This article has me thinking this may be deliberate. They want the nuts to be more visible: first to run up turnout in the 2010 House race thereby neutering Obama's second half of the first term, second not to win executive power in 2012-6. This sorta worked under Clinton 1994-2000.

As for my thoughts on this, I'm conflicted. I certainly don't want creationists near the levels of power. On the other hand, it is unseemly for a Republican to leak that they'd like their own party to lose, in ANY election, for ANY reason; the ethical thing to do if caught in that situation, is to resign membership. It is not too strong a label to call Huntsman's advisors traitors, at least to their party. And I don't want disloyal rats near the levers of power either.

477 Zimriel  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:57:11pm

All that said, I wish Huntsman well as ambassador, but I urge him to resign his party membership and re-register as an Independent. If he wanted to run again as Governor or to run as President as a non Republican, I'd give him my blessing.

478 Irenicum  Sat, May 16, 2009 1:57:13pm

re: #354 jcm

Shoe business? No wonder you're so well heeled!

479 Gitarzan  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:03:03pm

re: #464 Cato the Elder

No more than X number of people here can let go of the "Obama's a commie who's comin' for yer freeedoms" horsehockey.

You wide vocabulary and scintillating wit duly noted.

Can't help it if the truth hurts, Cato...

/just sayin'

480 Former Belgian  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:12:50pm

re: #278 Charles

Freepers say I'm on "a mission of evil," because I criticized Alan Keyes and the extremist Lambs of Christ anti-abortion nutjobs:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Here is one "social conservative" who considers both of them Nucking Futs.

And I think a lot of what you're seeing is "spurned lover syndrome". Many righty bloggers had pegged you as a "conservative" blogger because you agreed with them on GWoT and took out Dan Rather --- all the while ignoring that you never once self-IDed as a conservative! (I always had you pegged as socially liberal, hawkish on defense, and indifferent or moderate on other things.) Now, because you're clearly and outspokenly not a conservative on social issues (let alone a reactionary like some of them truly are), these people attack you for "betraying" a cause you never signed up with in the first place.

481 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:12:57pm

re: #95 Rexatosis

An excellent choice for ambassador, one that should have been made several months ago (ambassadors to Lichtenstein can be made whenever, those to Great Powers should be done in a timely and deliberative manner.). Politically for Pres. Obama it means Huntsman is effectively off the Pres. and VP lists for 2012. If Pres. Obama made the decision to choose Gov. Huntsman because the Gov. is the best for the job it will prove to be a benefit to the US, if however Pres. Obama made the choice to ship a potential political rival on the proverbial "slow boat to China" it is doubtful the Pres. will give his new ambassador much time re: the issues facing the Sino-American relationship and that will not serve either country well (given Pres. Obama's history with regard to political rivals this may well be a repeat of past practices in a slightly new form.). Time will tell us if this is a good choice.

And I would say it could be an excellent move by Huntsman to accept. "Ambassador to China" carries a little more weight on the old resume than does "Governor of Utah." No slight to to Utah intended, but it's simply not a high-profile State, regardless of how well-run it may be.

I wouldn't necessarily count Huntsman out of the running for 2012, either. I figure he has about 2 years to serve in the role of ambassador. If he figures he has a shot at the brass ring on '12, I'm sure he could find an issue upon which to convincingly base his resignation "on a matter of principle."

I'm trying not so much to be cynical than to be realistic here.

482 Zimriel  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:25:07pm

re: #480 Former Belgian

Here is one "social conservative" who considers both of them Nucking Futs.

And I think a lot of what you're seeing is "spurned lover syndrome". Many righty bloggers had pegged you as a "conservative" blogger because you agreed with them on GWoT and took out Dan Rather --- all the while ignoring that you never once self-IDed as a conservative! (I always had you pegged as socially liberal, hawkish on defense, and indifferent or moderate on other things.) Now, because you're clearly and outspokenly not a conservative on social issues (let alone a reactionary like some of them truly are), these people attack you for "betraying" a cause you never signed up with in the first place.

Over on Wikipedia, the entry for Charles Foster Johnson records that our host has changed some of his positions, for instance over the "global warming swindle" documentary. I know, it's Wikipedia, but it does link back to quotes made here.

How people react to that is something else again. Do we accept that peoples' opinions might change over time, for legitimate reasons? Or do we go red in the face and holler that these people have BETRAYED !@! us? I like to think of myself as an adult and to accept or reject what people say, at any given point in their intellectual journey, on the statement's own merits.

483 Wendya  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:38:59pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

THIS is why we're losing. Decent republicans with their heads screwed on straight are marginalized and/or belittled, so they don't bother.


I see an awful lot of marginalization and belittling of republicans who don't toe the "moderate" (center left) line.

484 Sharmuta  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:42:04pm

re: #483 Wendya

I see an awful lot of marginalization and belittling of republicans who don't toe the "moderate" (center left) line.

Example?

485 iLikeCandy  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:42:23pm

re: #13 pegcity

what Charles is saying is their is a difference between Climate Change and Man made global warming.

Where do you get that?

And what's the point of making any statement on climate change in the political arena unless it's to claim or deny that it's caused by man and reversible by man?

If Huntsman is a believer in man-made climate change, then he's superstitious, wrong-headed, lazy-minded, and ignorant to that degree.

486 Zimriel  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:44:54pm

re: #483 Wendya

I see an awful lot of marginalization and belittling of republicans who don't toe the "moderate" (center left) line.

Marginalization where? LGF doesn't count. The editorial board of the Washington Post doesn't quite cut it either.

Even where some of those Republicans you mention (non center left) should be marginalised, like on FOX, they're not.

487 Zimriel  Sat, May 16, 2009 2:48:22pm

re: #485 iLikeCandy

Where do you get that?

And what's the point of making any statement on climate change in the political arena unless it's to claim or deny that it's caused by man and reversible by man?

If Huntsman is a believer in man-made climate change, then he's superstitious, wrong-headed, lazy-minded, and ignorant to that degree.


Careful dude. AGW is a serious theory with a lot of scientific backing. Disagree with it if you like but you had better come loaded for bear, either with facts or at least with an understanding of how far the facts can take you.

You don't get just to call people names.

488 theheat  Sat, May 16, 2009 3:01:21pm
although some of his advisers think the party’s primary voters will be more prepared to accept his moderate views in 2016 if the party suffers a 1964-like cataclysm at the polls in 2012.

Be a shame to wait until a huge loss in 2012 to figure out a better strategy. The right wing nutjobs need outing now, so they don't drag the party farther into the toilet than it is. By 2016 the GOP can either be a party of socons, the morality police, and flat earth snake handlers, or they can the beacon of reason in a steadily socialist climate that appeals to the majority of mainstream America.

489 Zimriel  Sat, May 16, 2009 3:10:25pm

re: #484 Sharmuta

Example?

Thanks for the reality check; I'd initially updinged that comment...

490 Irenicum  Sat, May 16, 2009 3:12:01pm

re: #384 LGoPs

re: #451 SteveC

I love it! We need more doctors like that!

491 Throbert McGee  Sat, May 16, 2009 3:19:49pm

re: #289 Shug

Libertine men and scarlet women and ragtime --
Shameless music!

Updings for quoting one of the drollest lyrics in the history of Broadway...

492 MTF  Sat, May 16, 2009 4:00:45pm

As awful a President as Obama has been so far, at least in my estimation, I admire his ability to sideline and marginalize opponents. If there was any chance Huntsman might affect the 2010 0r 2012 elections, it's less of a problem now.

And, if Huntsman wants to know exactly how much influence he'll actuall have on relations with China, ask Hillary how it feels to be SecState when the White House is conducting direct diplomacy in every important area via the ineffable region "Tsars" they've appointed.

493 _RememberTonyC  Sat, May 16, 2009 4:11:41pm

No question that Obama is shrewd politically. This Huntsman appointment is a master stroke for sure. He's a good choice for the job. And he is also a potential moderate rival from the other party. I hope (really soon) that Obama's political shrewdness also turns into geopolitical shrewdness so that he can outmaneuver enemies (like iran) standing in our way as well as he has outmaneuvered Americans who stand in his way.

494 tradewind  Sat, May 16, 2009 4:30:19pm

One of Huntsman's biggest motivations to accept that (extremely luxurious and cushy, btw) posting is undoubtedly his family.. he and his wife adopted their two daughters from China as infants. It would be difficult to replicate that cultural experience in any other position.

495 MarineMomSue  Sat, May 16, 2009 4:39:22pm

re: #264 albusteve

I'm guilty of that stuff sometimes...I can't stop myself and I make things up...but I'm not an anti-Semetic

You say you are not anti-Semetic... but how do we know you aren't just making that up?
///

496 Dirk Diggler  Sat, May 16, 2009 4:47:13pm

Killian Bundy,

/it's a spoof

Even if that blog were real, who cares? Noted Obama supporter Warren Buffett and financial guru Jack Rodgers are also on that blog roll. Selective guilt by association is not a counter-argument backed with evidence. It does nothing to refute Roubini's economic forecasts.

It is a chickenshit dodge.

itellu3times,

But Roubini is just this year's Doctor Doom. He's going to take the downside come what may. Whether that turns our right or wrong, has little do to with his choice of position. So, he's been right a couple of times in the last year, a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Actually Roubini prefers the nickname Doctor Realist. In terms of alarmism, he's light years away from Glenn Beck. He feels the world economy is headed into a steep and long recession, but not a depression.

I hope Roubini's wrong, but I see little economic data that supports claims of "green shoots" or a sustainable recovery. In fact, I see an abundant amount of employment, consumer spending, and housing data that are pointing the other way.

497 freetoken  Sat, May 16, 2009 5:03:13pm

re: #337 Dirk Diggler

"Dr. Doom"

498 [deleted]  Sat, May 16, 2009 5:04:40pm
499 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, May 16, 2009 5:15:31pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

THIS is why we're losing. Decent republicans with their heads screwed on straight are marginalized and/or belittled, so they don't bother.

The GOP is losing, as I see it, and losing badly, simply because they have repudiated any concept of fiscal responsibility coupled with a reduction of government. Bush 41 and 43 spent all of their administration's expanding taxes and government over-reach into even more areas where states and local municipalities should be the arbiter.

I won't even bother getting into Clinton or Obama since that has never been part of their political DNA.

500 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, May 16, 2009 5:56:31pm

Maybe the O' couldn't find anyone on his side of the isle that could do the job?
Or pass public scrutiny ala back taxes etc...

501 boiledwombat  Sat, May 16, 2009 7:13:57pm

re: #499 FurryOldGuyJeans

I conclude that the GOP is losing because a plurality, and perhaps an absolute majority, of the electorate does not want any variety of "fiscal responsibility" or "reduction of government".

Simply put, a critical mass of people want something for nothing - or at least something at somebody else's expense. That is what the Democrats always promise to deliver and that perhaps the biggest reason why Democrats are winning elections.

Another critical mass of people want to live in a socialist system. This isn't a choice of rational self-interest, rather it is a deeply held desire to belong to a collective and submerge the self in something much larger. These folks are reliable supporters of the Democrats.

You aren't going to ever convince anyone from either of these two groups to vote for a conservative candidate of any party.

The leftists do not need to actually deliver on their promises in order to maintain their hold on power. Failures can be (and are) blamed on "obstructionism" from the conservatives.

Success for the Republicans, if it is possible at all in this generation, may come when the Democrats break down in squabbles over the spoils and injure too many of their wealthy backers with a declining economy.

502 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 16, 2009 7:40:13pm

re: #242 ihateronpaul

I don't get why people are against gay marriage. How is it any different than interracial marriage, which was illegal until 1960? People don't choose to be black, gay people don't choose to be gay. There is a reason why so many gay people attempt suicide. It is because our society is so blatantly homophobic and not accepting of them. People used the same arguments about interracial marriage back in the day. I don't see how this is different.

How is it any different from interracial marriage?

Gay marriages don't lead to natural-born children to whom both parents are bound by blood ties.

Now granted, there is no guaranty that this will happen with man-woman marriage, but it's at least possible.

If the voters want to overturn the definition of marriage, at least it will be by way of a vote. To have the courts overturn that definition would open a huge Pandora's box. It has, actually. If any and all rules that society tries to make are automatically void whenever somebody doesn't like them, it makes it impossible to defend societal values and institutions. Why NOT allow polygamy? The reason is that our winner-take-all society has gone quite far enough already, without lifting the quota that even Donald Trump can only have one wife AT A TIME.

503 coloradobuff  Sat, May 16, 2009 10:11:37pm
In contrast to other Republican governors, he accepted his state’s allotment from the economic stimulus package – and, in fact, said in a February interview with POLITICO that $787 billion wasn’t large enough.

My problem with him: he is not a fiscal conservative, and hence not a legitimate GOP candidate for 2012. Simple as that.

504 Joel  Sun, May 17, 2009 6:07:15am

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the Republicans lost me. They're drumming out all the moderates now anyways so I makes sense for me to look elsewhere.

Of course the Democrats are just loaded with moderates - Obama, Biden, Hillary, Dodd, Edwards, Conyers, Barbara Lee, Pete Stark, Maurice Hichley, Eliot Spitzer, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Chuck Schumer, Pat Leahy , Nancy Pelosi, Jim Jeffords. Give me a flippin's break! You are a liberal, just come out and say it. It is no crime.

John McCain was virtually a f*** Democrat.

505 Joel  Sun, May 17, 2009 6:25:46am

re: #25 Charles

Charles
Please name the Democratic moderates.

Joe Lieberman I guess.

There are none (or they are so few they can meet in a phone booth).

506 mrkwong  Sun, May 17, 2009 8:08:48am

Sounds to me like the folks that are looking for 'moderate Republicans' are looking for Dick Nixon. Spread a pox of alphabet agencies upon the political landscape that are still afflicting us today.

As far as I'm concerned, creationism and the Church of Global Warming aren't that far apart, they're both beliefs in a received wisdom not supported by observable fact.

507 funky chicken  Sun, May 17, 2009 9:40:30am

re: #119 shiplord kirel

We could do worse than Darth Cheney, and probably will.

already did--G W Bush

508 Joel  Sun, May 17, 2009 5:05:56pm

re: #507 funky chicken

Try B. Husein Urkel.

509 FrogMarch  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:14:42am

Why did he accept?

Just so NO to Obama and his plans to stay in power. Remember- while the GOP is in disarray and stupidly committing suicide - the democrats grab power any way they can. then they socialize everything to the point of no return.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

Name:

Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

Turn off ads by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day, our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...


► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

Any discrepancy in the data is irrelevant.

TwitterFacebook
LGF Pages
Recent Pages

Daniel Ballard
Iran Hit With 'Flame,' the Most Sophisticated Spy Virus Ever - May. 30, 2012
17 minutes ago
Views: 11 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0

researchok
Romney and Trump
1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Views: 41 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0

ggt
Leona's Sister Gerri
2 hours, 51 minutes ago
Views: 42 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1

I AM BREITBART!
Seattle Manhunt Launched After Deadly Cafe Shootings, Carjacking
5 hours, 2 minutes ago
Views: 94 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2

Shiplord Kirel
Dragon to Depart Station Thursday
6 hours, 13 minutes ago
Views: 49 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1

Randall Gross
Citadel Malware Delivers Reveton Ransomware in attempts to extort money
7 hours, 5 minutes ago
Views: 129 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2

Channeling Confucius
From the previous Diamond Jubilee: Kipling's 'Recessional'
7 hours, 36 minutes ago
Views: 82 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0

Bob Dillon
REVEALED: Hundreds of Words to Avoid Using Online if You Don't Want the Government Spying on You
8 hours, 41 minutes ago
Views: 199 • Comments: 3
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2

Learned Mother of Zion
Native Americans Have Jewish DNA!
9 hours, 1 minute ago
Views: 307 • Comments: 9
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 8

Eclectic Infidel
Mitt Romney for a better Amercia!
9 hours, 6 minutes ago
Views: 143 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0

 Frank says:

Who are the brain police?