The Link - Uncovering Our Earliest Ancestor

Science • Views: 4,944

As we noted last week, an international team of scientists has unveiled a landmark discovery: an amazingly well-preserved 47-million year old fossil found in Germany that could be the common ancestor of all monkeys, apes, and human beings.

This team has put together an excellent website with articles, photos, and video presentations to explain the significance of their find, and they’re calling it: The Link.

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786 comments

1 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:06:47pm

The thread you're all waiting for...

2 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:07:07pm

David Attenborough is a stud. I love his films and documentaries.

3 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:07:55pm

And it has measles, too!

4 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:08:15pm

But where are all the missing links?

...

Oh, wait, there they are. Sorry. Carry on.

5 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:08:18pm

And for those who didn't hear this earlier, Rush Limbaugh, today on his show, in a 4 sentence comment, said that this was bullshit and evolution does not disprove creation. The scientist has spoken, to millions of listeners, many who will swallow his whole take on this.

6 Creeping Eruption  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:08:32pm

/Ida Linked to it but . . .

7 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:08:57pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

And yes, he say bullshit, by using the phase "It's BS."

8 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:09:10pm

2 MORE GAPS!

/

9 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:09:38pm

It's amazing to think that over the several million years that have passed that we have evolved from this creature. That's my great*(big number) grandparent!

10 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:09:45pm

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

And yes, he say bullshit, by using the phase "It's BS."

Well Walter, not all of us have evolved at the same speed.

11 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:10:20pm

re: #4 zombie

But where are all the missing links?

...

Oh, wait, there they are. Sorry. Carry on.

This can't be the missing link because the link is up right up there!
I WANT THE MISSING LINK!

/an Internet thing for pain

12 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:10:23pm

Does Ida the proto-lemur-human have a soul? Inquiring theologians demand to know!

Is Ida now in heaven, hell, limbo, dog-heaven, or has she been reincarnated as Rush Limbaugh?

13 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:10:52pm

re: #9 MrSilverDragon

It's amazing to think that over the several million years that have passed that we have evolved from this creature. That's my great*(big number) grandparent!

It is amazing, since your picture looks nothing like a monkey, or a humanoid of any sorts :)

14 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:11:12pm

re: #10 Desert Dog

Well Walter, not all of us have evolved at the same speed.

I know I haven't.

15 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:11:34pm

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

It is amazing, since your picture looks nothing like a monkey, or a humanoid of any sorts :)

It's just another divergent path! :D

16 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:11:36pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

Looks like Rush has jumped the shark. All credibility down the toilet.

17 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:13:17pm

OT

Better get out your old map books out and start asking for directions again:

GPS System "close to breakdown"

18 IslandLibertarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:13:23pm

My tail isn't quite as long, so I'm gunna' wait for more evidence.

/.........fantastic find............

19 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:13:39pm

re: #12 zombie

Does Ida the proto-lemur-human have a soul? Inquiring theologians demand to know!

Is Ida now in heaven, hell, limbo, dog-heaven, or has she been reincarnated as Rush Limbaugh?

It's beyond reason. This became news about 24 hours ago. I keep up with pending science news, and I didn't hear about this until yesterday, so I expect that Rush didn't have much more of a heads up then most of us.

Yet he can pronounce the whole thing as bullshit, in one fell swoop. (I love that term "one fell swoop").

Scary.

20 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:13:40pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

And for those who didn't hear this earlier, Rush Limbaugh, today on his show, in a 4 sentence comment, said that this was bullshit and evolution does not disprove creation. The scientist has spoken, to millions of listeners, many who will swallow his whole take on this.

I am continually amazed by people who believe in an all powerful diety who apparently was incapable of making his creation develop slowly over billions of years using mechanisms such as evolution, quantum physics, organic chemisty and literally thousands of other readily observed miracles of nature we can observe daily.

21 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:13:49pm

That is a really slick website. And very informative.

22 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:14:04pm

re: #17 Desert Dog

OT

Better get out your old map books out and start asking for directions again:

GPS System "close to breakdown"

All those damn iPhones are overloading the system!

23 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:15:17pm

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

It's beyond reason. This became news about 24 hours ago. I keep up with pending science news, and I didn't hear about this until yesterday, so I expect that Rush didn't have much more of a heads up then most of us.

I posted about it on Friday... just sayin'.

24 John Neverbend  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:15:31pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

And for those who didn't hear this earlier, Rush Limbaugh, today on his show, in a 4 sentence comment, said that this was bullshit and evolution does not disprove creation.

My reply to Rush is, not only does evolution not disprove creation, but you can't get a dentist at the weekend.

25 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:15:35pm

For those of you who missed it, the Complete History of Everything (Scientific Data vs YEC Models)

26 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:15:50pm

Nope.

This is not a fossil of "the missing link".

It is a complex calcification of wind blown sand that occured about 1000 years ago.

//

27 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:16:05pm

There are more and more pieces to the puzzle being assembled each year. At what point will "non-believers" start believing? In evolution, that is.

28 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:16:36pm

re: #16 zombie

Looks like Rush has jumped the shark. All credibility down the toilet.

I think for audio replays of his material, you have to have a subscription to his web site. I would love if someone who had the means could find the clip of him saying this (it was at the very top of his first hour) and post a link to it.

I was floored. It's not like it's impossible that the scientist who have studied this monkey could be wrong, of course that's possible, and peer review will continue like always with discoveries like this, but for Rush to dismiss this, lock stock and barrel, without any science behind his statements, well...

29 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:16:37pm

"Ida" even has a book.

30 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:16:41pm

Rush needs to elaborate beyond his four sentence comment.

31 KingKenrod  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:16:44pm

Here's an interesting summary about early primate evolution:

[Link: anthro.palomar.edu...]

32 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:17:08pm

re: #27 Desert Dog

There are more and more pieces to the puzzle being assembled each year. At what point will "non-believers" start believing? In evolution, that is.

No clue bat will ever be big enough to drive the point home for some people.

33 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:17:41pm

re: #26 karmic_inquisitor

Nope.

This is not a fossil of "the missing link".

It is a complex calcification of wind blown sand that occured about 1000 years ago.

//

Why any fool can see this was fabricated in some Univ. lab by some bored archeology students. It's nothing more than another "Cardiff Giant".

////

34 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:17:45pm

Hmmm, it does bear a striking resemblance to my Great Uncle George....

/ ;-P

35 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:17:52pm

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

It's beyond reason. This became news about 24 hours ago. I keep up with pending science news, and I didn't hear about this until yesterday, so I expect that Rush didn't have much more of a heads up then most of us.

Yet he can pronounce the whole thing as bullshit, in one fell swoop. (I love that term "one fell swoop").

Scary.

It became news 24 hours ago, but they've been studying the fossil for two solid years.

This one individual fossil proves nothing all by itself. It is merely yet another brick in the astounding cathedral of evidence supporting Darwin's theory of evolution.

Rush doesn't know what he's talking about on this issue. He just sensed a creationism breeze in the air, and went where he thinks the general opinion is going. His opinion on science is worthless.

36 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:17:58pm

re: #24 John Neverbend

My reply to Rush is, not only does evolution not disprove creation, but you can't get a dentist at the weekend.

Sure you can

37 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:18:25pm

re: #23 Charles

I posted about it on Friday... just sayin'.

I meant it became news that I was aware of about 24 hours ago, I suspect that word of this was floating around the scientific circles well before, I just never saw it.

My point still stands, of course.

38 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:18:52pm

Got the "transcript" for Rush's comments on the fossil Ida:

RUSH: Drudge had as a lead item up there this morning on his page a story from the UK, Sky News: "Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution." It's all about how Darwin would be thrilled to be alive today. "Scientists have unveiled a 47-million-year-old fossilised skeleton of a monkey hailed as the missing link in human evolution." It's a one-foot, nine-inch-tall monkey, and it's a lemur monkey described as the eighth wonder of the world. "The search for a direct connection between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom has taken 200 years - but it was presented to the world today --" So I guess this is settled science. We now officially came from a monkey, 47 million years ago. Well, that's how it's being presented here. It's settled science. You know, this is all BS, as far as I'm concerned. Cross species evolution, I don't think anybody's ever proven that. They're going out of their way now to establish evolution as a mechanism for creation, which, of course, you can't do, but I'm more interested in some other missing link. And that is the missing link between our failing economy and prosperity.

How many thousands or millions of years will it be before somebody makes the connection to our failing economy and prosperity, Barack Obama? If we're looking for missing links, let's look for him, because right now he's getting no blame, no coverage whatsoever, as being instrumental in the drop in American prosperity, as the decline in all elements of the American economy. It is his economy. Nobody wants to connect it to him yet. It's not just Obama. It's Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid as well. It's one of these things; economy is going to go to hell in a handbasket further, and we wonder how long it will take for the missing link to that to be discovered outside of this program, the missing link there being Barack Obama.

39 turn  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:19:16pm

re: #9 MrSilverDragon

I read 70 million generations, that really is mind boggling. And to think life formed 3.8 billion years ago and survived to lead up to Ida totally blows me away. It's like an eddy flowing upstream against a roaring current for 3.8 billion years and getting bigger and bigger as it went.

40 John Neverbend  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:19:43pm

re: #27 Desert Dog

There are more and more pieces to the puzzle being assembled each year. At what point will "non-believers" start believing? In evolution, that is.

At the point of a red hot poker (pace Edward II)?

41 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:19:53pm

re: #22 zombie

All those damn iPhones are overloading the system!

Happened here in Austin during SXSW; all the tech-heads overloaded the cell system and APD and AFD had to go back to using two-way radios.

42 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:20:03pm
As we noted last week, an international team of scientists has unveiled a landmark discovery: an amazingly well-preserved 47-million year old fossil found in Germany that could be the common ancestor of all monkeys, apes, and human beings.

So..... we are all German?

43 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:20:20pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Got the "transcript" for Rush's comments on the fossil Ida:

I was wrong, it was a few more than 4 sentences. Sorry.

44 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:20:46pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

So..... we are all German?

I KNOW NOTHING! NOTHING!

45 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:21:16pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

So..... we are all German?

Are you having unexplainable urges to drink large quantities of bier and take over your neighbors?

46 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:21:22pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Sad.

47 jaunte  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:21:33pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Cross species evolution

Bleh. That meaningless concept keeps reappearing. Thanks a lot, R. Limbaugh.

48 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:21:35pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Got the "transcript" for Rush's comments on the fossil Ida:

Link?

49 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:21:42pm

re: #45 Desert Dog

Are you having unexplainable urges to drink large quantities of bier and take over your neighbors?

Part one, yes. Part two, not so much.

50 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:21:46pm

re: #45 Desert Dog

Are you having unexplainable urges to drink large quantities of bier and take over your neighbors?

Yes!

51 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:22:02pm

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

I was wrong, it was a few more than 4 sentences. Sorry.

Looks like the specific comments are about 4 sentences. Leave it to Rush to get long winded and go from the fossil to the Democrats.

52 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:22:42pm

re: #48 zombie

Link?

OK, here it is.

53 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:22:42pm

re: #3 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And it has measles, too!

Jenny McCarthy, you link murderer!

54 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:22:59pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

Yes!

Welkommen, meine Freunde! Du bist eine Deutschlander!

55 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:23:04pm

re: #45 Desert Dog

Are you having unexplainable urges to drink large quantities of bier and take over your neighbors?

Buurrrrrrp.

56 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:23:05pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Looks like the specific comments are about 4 sentences. Leave it to Rush to get long winded and go from the fossil to the Democrats.

Which is kind of ironic because it's the GOP that's looking like a fossil these days.

57 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:23:14pm

re: #45 Desert Dog

Are you having unexplainable urges to drink large quantities of bier and take over your neighbors?

Well, to be honest, who doesn't get that way from time to time?

58 brookly red  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:23:34pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

So..... we are all German?

my first word was bier...

59 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:23:38pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Looks like the specific comments are about 4 sentences. Leave it to Rush to get long winded and go from the fossil to the Democrats.


What's the difference?

60 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:24:41pm

re: #45 Desert Dog

Are you having unexplainable urges to drink large quantities of bier and take over your neighbors?

About those "neighbors" - the damned surveyors just went and drew an arbitrary line on the plat, and so now, all of a sudden, it's a separate piece of property. My dog has been crapping there since before they moved in - it's always been mine, I tells ya.

61 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:25:01pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

Which is kind of ironic because it's the GOP that's looking like a fossil these days.

That came to mind. I guess it's now part of the "official GOP platform" since Rush makes it so. I can see Michael Steele commenting on the fossil as a great scientific advancement and later backtracking and apologizing for that comment.

62 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:25:06pm

re: #46 Sharmuta

Sad.

What is most sad is how many people listen to him and probably have the same opinion and will agree with him. Of course, I don't have figures, but I suspect it's a better precent of his listeners.

Combine that with his daily insistence that he is the "leader" of the GOP, and his other little "bits" about who his intelligence is "on loan from g-d" and so forth, and he is the all and all that represents the public face of conservatives.

Sad, what an understatement.

63 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:25:38pm

Ida...okay....I'm one of those that could really care less, I just assumed I'm a decendent of apes of some sort....this will not change The Debate imo...people believe all kinds of crazy stuff

64 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:25:39pm

re: #60 Guanxi88

About those "neighbors" - the damned surveyors just went and drew an arbitrary line on the plat, and so now, all of a sudden, it's a separate piece of property. My dog has been crapping there since before they moved in - it's always been mine, I tells ya.

You could always just annex it.

65 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:25:44pm

re: #33 Desert Dog

Why any fool can see this was fabricated in some Univ. lab by some bored archeology students. It's nothing more than another "Cardiff Giant".

////

But the Shroud of Turin is real. Screw the radio carbon dating back to 1260-1390 AD and the recorded fabrication and fraudulent sale of "icons" in that era.

It is a testament of faith that people refuse to accept the scientific evidence. True believers KNOW that science is eeeeeevil.

To deny the Shroud of Turin's authenticity is to place Science above Jesus Christ.

/

66 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:25:53pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Got the "transcript" for Rush's comments on the fossil Ida:

I was unsure whether Rush Limbaugh was a creationist or not -- this came up before in one of these threads and I couldn't find any statement from him on the matter.

Now I know. I'm no longer surprised to find high-profile conservatives with these atavistic beliefs. The GOP and the right in general have a huge problem with this nonsense.

67 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:26:16pm

re: #60 Guanxi88

About those "neighbors" - the damned surveyors just went and drew an arbitrary line on the plat, and so now, all of a sudden, it's a separate piece of property. My dog has been crapping there since before they moved in - it's always been mine, I tells ya.

I'd claim dog marking has higher priority than some surveyor!

;-)

68 badger1970  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:26:21pm

Carl Sagan was right again.

69 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:26:45pm

re: #60 Guanxi88

About those "neighbors" - the damned surveyors just went and drew an arbitrary line on the plat, and so now, all of a sudden, it's a separate piece of property. My dog has been crapping there since before they moved in - it's always been mine, I tells ya.

Leibenstrum for your family. Kick them out or co-opt them into starting a puppet government you control.

70 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:26:51pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You could always just annex it.

Eh, I've thought of it, but I hear they're in pretty solid with the neighbors across the street, who might very well drag the HOA into it.

Screw 'em! I'll just take the damned thing and see what they do about it.

71 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:26:57pm

re: #66 Charles

I was unsure whether Rush Limbaugh was a creationist or not -- this came up before in one of these threads and I couldn't find any statement from him on the matter.

Now I know. I'm no longer surprised to find high-profile conservatives with these atavistic beliefs. The GOP and the right in general have a huge problem with this nonsense.

But he's just an entertainer.
////

72 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:27:09pm

re: #66 Charles

I was unsure whether Rush Limbaugh was a creationist or not -- this came up before in one of these threads and I couldn't find any statement from him on the matter.

Now I know. I'm no longer surprised to find high-profile conservatives with these atavistic beliefs. The GOP and the right in general have a huge problem with this nonsense.

Yes. And with Rush's comments it's about to get bigger. Now many people will be compelled to tow the line.

73 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:27:25pm

During the later stages of evolution, from 'hey that looks a lot like a dude but it has a smaller head' to 'hey, thats a dude, the worlds ice caps were much larger and the worlds water was much shallower. They (earlier we) hugged the coastlines for the plentiful food stuffs and to have a quick escape route away from predators. A sea animal attacks they (we) move onto the land. A land animal attacks they (we) move into the sea. All the while spreading and evolving out of east central Africa.

It is my fear but not regret that much of the stuff we evolutionists need to paint a clear picture of the genetic journey (there'll never be enough to make the i.d. folks convinced) is lost in the now deep waters along the rivers and mostly coast lines of the world.

These bits and pieces like Charles links to here are islands I'm afraid. Islands between which may never form bridges.

74 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:27:43pm

I read the article about the discovery of it earlier today. This is such a nice piece of detective work and archeology in pin pointing it's age and place on our lineage.

75 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:28:08pm

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

But he's just an entertainer.
////

And you know just where he stands
Another entertainer
Another one-night stand
Today he is the champion
Today he's won your hearts
But he won't be here
In another year
If he don't stay on the charts.

(With apologies to Billy Joel)

76 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:28:21pm

re: #67 jcm

I'd claim dog marking has higher priority than some surveyor!

;-)

Especially if its a Rottweiler. ;)

77 filetandrelease  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:28:27pm

I did not hear Rush today, but have heard his take on evolution in the past, He firmly believes in evolution. However, his take on creation is the big bang if you will. Otherwise how did that come to be? So he states that he believes in evolution completely, but perhaps that is God design. Otherwise, evolution does not disprove creation in the broad sense.

78 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:28:28pm

re: #66 Charles

I was unsure whether Rush Limbaugh was a creationist or not -- this came up before in one of these threads and I couldn't find any statement from him on the matter.

Now I know. I'm no longer surprised to find high-profile conservatives with these atavistic beliefs. The GOP and the right in general have a huge problem with this nonsense.

I think the Rush link in comment #52 and #38 above merit a thread! Another moron discredits the Republicans by jumping on the creationism bandwagon out of sheer ignorance.

79 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:28:38pm

Mark Levin is also a creationist, of course -- I recently heard him scream like a maniac on his radio show at a caller who dared to criticize teaching "intelligent design," then cut him off and hang up on him.

80 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:28:39pm

re: #75 Guanxi88

And you know just where he stands
Another entertainer
Another one-night stand
Today he is the champion
Today he's won your hearts
But he won't be here
In another year
If he don't stay on the charts.

(With apologies to Billy Joel)

Big time apologies.

81 BlueCanuck  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:28:59pm

re: #73 justdanny

Aquatic apes. Wasn't there a book about this about a decade ago?

82 justabill  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:29:25pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I am continually amazed by people who believe in an all powerful diety who apparently was incapable of making his creation develop slowly over billions of years using mechanisms such as evolution, quantum physics, organic chemisty and literally thousands of other readily observed miracles of nature we can observe daily.

They don't think God is incapable of making a universe where evolution works, Its just don't think thats what He did.

One of the traits of God is Omnipotence. In other words, God can do anything. However, in the Bible, it says that He did not create the universe that way, so in their view, he did not use evolution.

Personally, I am both a believer and an evolutionist. I believe God created the universe, and might nudge it from time to time to keep things on track, but by and large uses the natures laws(his creation as well). I believe the early chapters in the Bible were put there for a reason, have valuable things to teach us, but should not be read as history.

To me, belief in a young earth implies that God also set up false clues (carbon ratios in fossils, cosmic background radiation, red-shifted galaxies) to fool us into believing otherwise. This doesn't jib with the idea of a loving, trustworthy God.

83 badger1970  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:29:39pm

re: #81 BlueCanuck

I believe she was laughed down because monkeys don't surf.

84 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:30:18pm

re: #77 filetandrelease

I did not hear Rush today, but have heard his take on evolution in the past, He firmly believes in evolution. However, his take on creation is the big bang if you will. Otherwise how did that come to be? So he states that he believes in evolution completely, but perhaps that is God design. Otherwise, evolution does not disprove creation in the broad sense.

Then explain Rush's statement from the transcript that was posted above...

...They're going out of their way now to establish evolution as a mechanism for creation, which, of course, you can't do...

Doesn't sound like he believes in any part of evolution.

85 AndyMacOP  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:30:18pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I am continually amazed by people who believe in an all powerful diety who apparently was incapable of making his creation develop slowly over billions of years using mechanisms such as evolution, quantum physics, organic chemisty and literally thousands of other readily observed miracles of nature we can observe daily.

This discovery can do one of two things. It can build upon the knowledge of the Universe that is to be held in nothing less than an awe that takes your breath away and adds to the evidence of an all powerful and perfect creator, or it can make you say, "See, there is no God."

I am not sure how anyone comes to the latter conclusion based on this evidence and I hope no one will. But as to your observation PtbK, I am confounded too. I am reading the Parables of Matthew to my classes this week and one thing is very certain, the God-man Jesus Christ used stories that did not actually ever happen in order to convey an eternal truth. He was not lying, and the Book of Genesis is not lying either. It is telling the reader that all of creation has a source, a beginning. We call that God. Now go and try to figure it all out! In comes the sacred art of scientific discovery.

86 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:30:56pm

re: #83 badger1970

I believe she was laughed down because monkeys don't surf.

Did someone say, Swimming Monkeys?

87 Cicero05  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:31:03pm

This is nitpicking, but "our earliest ancestor" would be a short string of amino acids capable of reproducing, wouldn't it? This guy was way later.

88 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:31:59pm

re: #68 badger1970
I miss Carl

89 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:32:10pm

re: #87 Cicero05

This is nitpicking, but "our earliest ancestor" would be a short string of amino acids capable of reproducing, wouldn't it? This guy was way later.

Earliest transitional ancestor we have record of.

90 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:32:11pm

re: #87 Cicero05

This is nitpicking, but "our earliest ancestor" would be a short string of amino acids capable of reproducing, wouldn't it? This guy was way later.

Yeah, but those fossils are a bitch to find.

91 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:32:12pm

NEW YORK, May 19 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp's (GM.N) plan for a bankruptcy filing involves a quick sale of the company's healthy assets to a new company initially owned by the U.S. government, a source familiar with the situation said on Tuesday.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

Anyone see this?

92 BigDana  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:32:18pm

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

93 John Neverbend  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:32:35pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

What is most sad is how many people listen to him and probably have the same opinion and will agree with him. Of course, I don't have figures, but I suspect it's a better precent of his listeners.

Whenever I encounter this level of ignorance, I'm reminded of a line from an old British comedy series where the main character puts down his extremely stupid subordinate with, "To you.., the Renaissance was just something that happened to other people, wasn't it?"

94 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:32:59pm

I've really come to dislike pundits. People who want to tell me what I should think politically, but they're not intelligent enough to look at empirical evidence and see evolution is true. Really kind of ruins the so-called intellectual abilities, in my mind.

95 filetandrelease  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:33:10pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

I am not going to defend him, but I have personally heard him state unequivocally that he firmly believes evolution is an undeniable truth.

96 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:34:19pm

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

And, what is your expertise in the fossil record? How many fossils have you studied and handled? A fossil is rock, the earth is in good shape, and it's about 4 billion years old. It's made of a lot of rock.

You're not being serious, are you? You forgot the sarcasm tag right?

97 John Neverbend  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:34:20pm

re: #79 Charles

Mark Levin is also a creationist, of course -- I recently heard him scream like a maniac on his radio show at a caller who dared to criticize teaching "intelligent design," then cut him off and hang up on him.

Not for nothing does Savage refer to him as "the screaming lawyer".

98 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:34:28pm

re: #94 Sharmuta

I've really come to dislike pundits. People who want to tell me what I should think politically, but they're not intelligent enough to look at empirical evidence and see evolution is true. Really kind of ruins the so-called intellectual abilities, in my mind.

they are a curse and their vehicle is the MSM....ignorance is the dope and the media is the needle...I hate them all equally

99 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:34:31pm

So, you can't be a Creationist and also hold valid conservative political values? You hold this belief and...poof!....you have no other opinions worth hearing?

I'm an agnostic, so I don't get all bent out of shape if people hold different religious views. There are some views in almost all the major religions that get pretty wacky. Does that mean that a person who holds a particular religious view is unfit to serve in politics? Even if they have no intention of trying to legislate their view?

It's disturbing that several state GOP platforms are including ID/Creationism and this should be fought tooth and nail. It's also disturbing that so many are so willing to discredit the entire person for a religious belief.

100 badger1970  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:34:41pm

re: #88 justdanny

So do I. Cosmos, Comet and Pale Blue Dot are must reads.

101 irongrampa  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:34:44pm

Astonishing to me that it was discovered in the first place.

102 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:34:58pm
in the Bible, it says that He did not create the universe that way

As far as I'm aware, the Bible has nothing at all to say about the process of creation. How creation was accomplished isn't described at all.

103 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:35:10pm

re: #95 filetandrelease

I am not going to defend him, but I have personally heard him state unequivocally that he firmly believes evolution is an undeniable truth.

And we have a transcript that say otherwise, from today, current, recent and there is no way to deny it.

104 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:35:11pm

re: #91 Nevergiveup

Just now came online to post a link to that. You beat me to it.
So, in a thread that is discussing the evolution of mankind, we now have a story that details the devolution of free-enterprise and individual freedom.
Somehow I envy that little lemur fella, at least he doesn't have anything left to lose.

105 AndyMacOP  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:35:30pm

re: #95 filetandrelease

I am not going to defend him, but I have personally heard him state unequivocally that he firmly believes evolution is an undeniable truth.

Distinctions are a must here. He is not a YEC for sure. Clarity on his part would be helpful.

106 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:35:37pm

re: #81 BlueCanuck

Aquatic apes. Wasn't there a book about this about a decade ago?

I think so, IIRC. IIRC, it was also regarded as mostly nonsense. Wiki has an article on it with some links and references.

107 eddiebear  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:09pm

re: #99 Russkilitlover

Yup

108 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:16pm

re: #81 BlueCanuck

Aquatic apes. Wasn't there a book about this about a decade ago?

Yes, but thats not the same story. We lived along coastlines and used that margin between water and land to our benefit. Whether or not we were more comfortable in water or on land I dont know. I assume we lived on the land or else we would be fishy smelling today.

109 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:17pm

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

You're over 90 years old?

Piltdown man was 1912.

110 callahan23  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:34pm

re: #32 DEZes

No clue bat will ever be big enough to drive the point home for some people.

I think those folks require a clue-pole.
Hi {DEZes} how ya doin?

111 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:41pm

Rush Limbaugh was willing to go along with the Republican Party going on a deficit spending binge well after the post 9/11 recovery.

he kept his mouth shut.

After Pelosi took power, he said he was "liberated" and no longer had to "carry water" for republicans who were essentially RINOs.

Well now we know what he meant.

The fiscal agenda comes up when there is an opportunity to attach "tax and spend liberal" to the end of it.

But the SoCon talking points flow at all times, and especially against Republicans who are supposedly weak on ideological staying power.

Limbaugh is not an imbecile - he is a smart guy. But he is a hypocrite now showing his hand.

It is all about the SoCon agenda.

I am glad to be off the bus.

112 eddiebear  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:44pm

re: #97 John Neverbend

Yeah. It's just terrible when somebody is intolerant of opposing views.

113 livefreeor die  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:47pm

My grandfather wasn't no German lemur!
//

114 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:36:56pm

re: #85 AndyMacOP

Too many people look for miracles thrown up in your face like a face in wood grain or a pattern in the sand. They want them handed on a silver platter so they can say "Tada! Look at the miracle!" and gloat. You have to dig and search for the real miracles, and when you find it, its an epiphany you want to share for the sake of sharing.

115 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:37:17pm

re: #99 Russkilitlover

So, you can't be a Creationist and also hold valid conservative political values? You hold this belief and...poof!....you have no other opinions worth hearing?

I'm an agnostic, so I don't get all bent out of shape if people hold different religious views. There are some views in almost all the major religions that get pretty wacky. Does that mean that a person who holds a particular religious view is unfit to serve in politics? Even if they have no intention of trying to legislate their view?

It's disturbing that several state GOP platforms are including ID/Creationism and this should be fought tooth and nail. It's also disturbing that so many are so willing to discredit the entire person for a religious belief.

In my case, I look at a person critical thinking skills, Rush is certainly lacking them, I don't care what his religious beliefs are. He is making statement s that he in no way can back up. He is throwing out all the science. That's someone I don't take any account of.

116 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:37:35pm

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

Rush Limbaugh was willing to go along with the Republican Party going on a deficit spending binge well after the post 9/11 recovery.

he kept his mouth shut.

After Pelosi took power, he said he was "liberated" and no longer had to "carry water" for republicans who were essentially RINOs.

Well now we know what he meant.

The fiscal agenda comes up when there is an opportunity to attach "tax and spend liberal" to the end of it.

But the SoCon talking points flow at all times, and especially against Republicans who are supposedly weak on ideological staying power.

Limbaugh is not an imbecile - he is a smart guy. But he is a hypocrite now showing his hand.

It is all about the SoCon agenda.

I am glad to be off the bus.

I seem to recall him going crazy about the bailouts and was against them from the start. Perhaps I am wrong. I don't listen much any more.

117 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:37:40pm

Feingold Blocks Bill to Honor Reagan
By Jackie Kucinich
Roll Call Staff
May 19, 2009, 12 a.m.
Republicans are trying to pass legislation in the next few weeks to kick off the commemoration of the 100th anniversary of Ronald Reagan’s birth, and the only hurdle appears to be Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.), who is refusing to let the Senate vote on the bill.

Staying with the theme of this thread, Feingold is a real Neanderthal.

118 eddiebear  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:38:10pm

re: #104 Lincolntf

Naw, Hope and Change will tax him for potentially becoming a fossil fuel

119 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:38:23pm

BBIAB.

120 wrenchwench  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:38:53pm

re: #99 Russkilitlover

It's also disturbing that so many are so willing to discredit the entire person for a religious belief.

Wanting to teach creationism in public schools is a political belief, not a religious one.

121 filetandrelease  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:39:07pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton
No where in what you posted does he state he does not believe in evolution. If you think Rush does not believe in evolution, you are wrong.

122 KingKenrod  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:39:08pm

re: #91 Nevergiveup

NEW YORK, May 19 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp's (GM.N) plan for a bankruptcy filing involves a quick sale of the company's healthy assets to a new company initially owned by the U.S. government, a source familiar with the situation said on Tuesday.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

Anyone see this?

I saw it. $15 billion in taxpayer money down the tubes. The story says "initially owned by the US govt" but we already know this is heading to the same place as the Chrysler deal. An unprofitable company owned by the unions with a big govt credit line. And they'll be selling cars people will only buy if Obama can drive the price of gas over $4/gallon.

123 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:39:29pm

re: #117 Nevergiveup

The only Republican that Dems ever deign to honor is Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.

124 justabill  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:01pm

Anyone know when the polls close in California, or where to find results?

125 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:08pm

re: #99 Russkilitlover

The main reason I've come to dislike pundits has nothing to do with science and everything to do with the undermining of our Founder's principles. Some of these folks are anti-communist, which isn't the same as being a conservative (in my mind). And not just names like coulter and hannity, but some more "intellectual" pundits as well. My BS filter has gotten very fine as of late, and I call major BS on quite a few of these folks. They're not interested in conservatism- they're interested in lining their bank accounts.

That's what pisses me off the most with these pundits.

126 BigDana  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:17pm

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

What I'm seeing in this photograph looks like something ginned up for the Smithsonian gift shop. Or else something helped along greatly by Photoshop.

I've not handled any fossils, but I've read about this sort of thing in books, and seen photographs, for years. Stuff that's millions of years old seldom looks this clean, if ever. Oh, sure, in childrens' pop-up books, where dinosaurs look cute and cuddly.

This is supposed to be reality. I think we need to see if this thing passes the Time Test. There have been fakes in recent years -- we've all read about them. Let's hope this is not one of them.

Sorry, I have to sign off now -- wife is ringing the dinner bell.

127 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:20pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

Wanting to teach creationism in public schools is a political belief, not a religious one.

that's where the rubber hit's the road....creationism will be unstoppable and eventually the schools will fold...just thought I'd warn ya

128 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:23pm

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

A lot of fossils preserved in fine limestone tend to have this same look to them. The fine lime preserves a lot of finer details that otherwise might not be preserved. Here's another fossil like that.

129 IslandLibertarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:35pm

re: #72 Gus 802

Yes. And with Rush's comments it's about to get bigger. Now many people will be compelled to tow the line.

and "Toe the line" too.........

130 John Neverbend  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:49pm

re: #112 eddiebear

Yeah. It's just terrible when somebody is intolerant of opposing views.

Indeed. It certainly seems to be a condition that applies to many radio talk show hosts, Savage included. I think, however, that Savage is not a creationist.

131 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:52pm

re: #100 badger1970

So do I. Cosmos, Comet and Pale Blue Dot are must reads.

Broca's Brain was my favorite. I read everything he wrote, even his college thesis. An amazing communicator. Made it all seem so easy to wrap my tiny noggin around.

132 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:40:58pm

re: #124 justabill

Anyone know when the polls close in California, or where to find results?

Should be 8pm, they wont start releasing any data till then.

133 jaunte  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:41:01pm

re: #109 jcm

Casey Luskin is still "concerned" about the Haeckel embryo drawings appearing in textbooks today, though they haven't been used in any modern texts. There is a pattern of creationist concern over some mis-steps of scientists, some of which are getting pretty well aged.

134 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:41:09pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

Wanting to teach creationism in public schools is a political belief, not a religious one.

I have heard Rush say he believes god created the earth. But, I have never heard him say he wants creationism or intelligent design to be taught in schools. Has he done that now? BUT, I have heard him say that the theory of evolution is flawed and should not be held up as the absolute truth. He is skeptical of many scientific theories....evolution, global warming, etc.

135 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:41:30pm

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

I've seen better from around the same time period. I'd call this one roughly average in terms of preservation. The most unusual thing about it is the completeness of the specimen; it is nearly intact. But it is also small, which tends to favor such an outcome. The matrix it is embedded in is intact, so it has remained in one piece within the stone, well protected against damage.

136 justabill  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:41:32pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Thanks, I'll keep an eye open.

137 eprn1n2  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:41:35pm

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

138 BigDana  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:41:53pm

re: #109 jcm

Nope, but when I was in school he was still in the textbooks.

139 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:41:56pm

re: #118 eddiebear

Nip Global Warming in the bud by killing everything! Brilliant!

140 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:42:03pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

He is making statement s that he in no way can back up.

Ummmm...isn't that the essense of religion? Just sayin'

141 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:42:05pm

re: #128 Honorary Yooper

A lot of fossils preserved in fine limestone tend to have this same look to them. The fine lime preserves a lot of finer details that otherwise might not be preserved. Here's another fossil like that.

Heres one that is not so well preserved?

[Link: www.contactmusic.com...]

142 wrenchwench  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:42:10pm

re: #127 albusteve

that's where the rubber hit's the road....creationism will be unstoppable and eventually the schools will fold...just thought I'd warn ya

You are a cynic. I'm not (yet?)

143 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:42:31pm

re: #128 Honorary Yooper

A lot of fossils preserved in fine limestone tend to have this same look to them. The fine lime preserves a lot of finer details that otherwise might not be preserved. Here's another fossil like that.

those are even older too, yes?

144 eddiebear  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:42:33pm

re: #139 Lincolntf

Or tax it to death

145 jaunte  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:42:36pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

The first part of your statement is not related to your conclusion.

146 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:42:56pm

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

Rush Limbaugh was willing to go along with the Republican Party going on a deficit spending binge well after the post 9/11 recovery.

he kept his mouth shut.

After Pelosi took power, he said he was "liberated" and no longer had to "carry water" for republicans who were essentially RINOs.

Well now we know what he meant.

The fiscal agenda comes up when there is an opportunity to attach "tax and spend liberal" to the end of it.

But the SoCon talking points flow at all times, and especially against Republicans who are supposedly weak on ideological staying power.

Limbaugh is not an imbecile - he is a smart guy. But he is a hypocrite now showing his hand.

It is all about the SoCon agenda.

I am glad to be off the bus.

Unless it was McCain- then he felt free to rip him all the time. I sadly have to agree Rush is being hypocritical here. It just saddens me. Such potential to help conservatism, and it's wasted.

147 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:43:07pm

re: #87 Cicero05

This is nitpicking, but "our earliest ancestor" would be a short string of amino acids capable of reproducing, wouldn't it? This guy was way later.

Agreed.

148 filetandrelease  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:43:26pm

re: #134 Desert Dog

I don't listen to him much. Didn't hear that, disappointing. I heard him about two weeks ago state he believed in evolution completely.

149 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:43:41pm

re: #116 Desert Dog

I seem to recall him going crazy about the bailouts and was against them from the start. Perhaps I am wrong. I don't listen much any more.

I assume that you mean the end of the Bush term. Yes - he railed against them and Paulson and Bernake.

But he was careful around Bush. That was also the time when Bush invited him for lunch in the Oval Office and gave him a surprise birthday cake.

Were Rush as ideologically pure to the standards that he holds others to, and not a slave to ego and personality (as he correctly accuses Obamatons of being), he would have taken Bush to task on bailouts and reported such to his listeners.

He didn't. He heaped praise on Bush where he could.

His choice.

But his predilection for casting stones is something to note.

150 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:43:53pm

re: #141 Nevergiveup

Heres one that is not so well preserved?

[Link: www.contactmusic.com...]

actually, they will find her face perfect preserved in a million years. They will think it was some kind of ceremonial mask, worn to scare off ghosts.

151 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:44:07pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

^---- Critical thinking and comprehension fail

152 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:44:15pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

Why? You know- it is possible to have both. Just ask the Pope.

153 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:44:18pm

re: #91 Nevergiveup

The new company is expected to honor the claims of secured lenders, possibly in full, according to the source.

Are secured lenders the same as bond holders or are they a different group?

154 callahan23  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:44:32pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

As we noted last week, an international team of scientists has unveiled a landmark discovery: an amazingly well-preserved 47-million year old fossil found in Germany that could be the common ancestor of all monkeys, apes, and human beings.


So..... we are all German?

Oh, noes. I am German and I reject this notion.
Please refer to the continental shift. It wasn't even there at the same place 47 million years ago. Germany didn't exist then.
/ rant off

155 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:44:34pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

156 wrenchwench  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:44:46pm

re: #134 Desert Dog

I have heard Rush say he believes god created the earth. But, I have never heard him say he wants creationism or intelligent design to be taught in schools. Has he done that now? BUT, I have heard him say that the theory of evolution is flawed and should not be held up as the absolute truth. He is skeptical of many scientific theories....evolution, global warming, etc.

I read Rush's monthly newsletter in which he fawned all over Ben Stein and his movie, Expelled. As I understand it, the whole point of the movie and the movement is to get that stuff into the schools. Who would care if they wanted to teach it in Sunday school?

157 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:44:52pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

Wanting to teach creationism in public schools is a political belief, not a religious one.

And that's a huge legimate problem. Based exclusively on the Constitution. However, if my neighbor who has zip, zero, zilch to do with school curriculum holds Creationist beliefs should I shun them and spit on them in public?

158 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:01pm

re: #148 filetandrelease

I don't listen to him much. Didn't hear that, disappointing. I heard him about two weeks ago state he believed in evolution completely.

He believes that evolution occurs, but he is skeptical that humans and other primates are from a common ancestor.

159 AndyMacOP  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:07pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

Read carefully the text Charles wrote. In it the word "could" is used in the proper manner.

160 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:09pm

re: #109 jcm

You're over 90 years old?

Piltdown man was 1912.

Maybe it can be Piltdown to having heard about it from his folks.

/y'know, at his granddaddy's Nea...anderthal that kinda stuff

(*shudder* ... I've got one of the prototypes on the bench in the back room, and it's got one of his company's chips in it ... what if he can trace me through that?!)

161 John Neverbend  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:19pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Are secured lenders the same as bond holders or are they a different group?

If the bonds are secured, they are the same group, including other lenders such as banks who lend through loans not bonds.

162 Aye Pod  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:19pm

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

Dinosaur fossils - ever seen them? The youngest are about 65 million years old.

163 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:27pm
164 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:38pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Are secured lenders the same as bond holders or are they a different group?

Secured lemurs are from a different genus entirely.

165 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:45:43pm

re: #110 callahan23

I think those folks require a clue-pole.
Hi {DEZes} how ya doin?

I'm doing OK, although a strange day its been.
Got in my van to drive home and heard a meow.
Look to the back and a cat is looking at me from under the seat,
three kittens were mewing.
Mama cat wont come out, and I thought well, I have seen the cat before in my neighborhood, so it had to have rode to work with me this morning, so the ride home should be OK, and I will deal with it at home.
Also looking at the mother cat, I noticed she had goop eye.
So I stopped at the vet and got some medicine.
Got home, went in the house and got a can of cat food.
She knew the sound of a can opening and came out and ate.
Let me pet her and even let me get some medicine in its eyes.
and then it went right back under the seat with its kittens.
I am sitting here thinking about my options.
;)

166 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:46:03pm

re: #161 John Neverbend

Ah, thanks.

167 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:46:11pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

Thanks Bullshit..I went to Catholic school and If tried to pass a science test quoting scripture to the nuns..they would flunk me..period amen..
Nobody thinks you have to renounce religion by following Scientific tenants.
Maybe you should give up your TV, Computer, Cell phone and kick science to the curb..Cause you know..it's not in the Bible..
jeez...

168 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:46:22pm

re: #129 IslandLibertarian

and "Toe the line" too.........

Thanks. BTW, "where ever" is one word: wherever.

169 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:46:37pm

re: #133 jaunte

Casey Luskin is still "concerned" about the Haeckel embryo drawings appearing in textbooks today, though they haven't been used in any modern texts. There is a pattern of creationist concern over some mis-steps of scientists, some of which are getting pretty well aged.

That's just it, science (as whole) self corrects and refines over time. They also don't seem to understand Darwin's ideas have been refined, tested and proven over time. In a sense Darwin postulated the evolution hypothesis. Since then his hypothesis has evolved into a theory. Along the way many things have occurred, ideas modified, strengthened and discarded.

170 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:46:43pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.


Dont do that. Keep your faith. Just dont try to teach my kids your dogma. Keep it safe and secure in your life with fellow believers. Practice your faith. Judge me by my works and I'll do the same for you.

I have much love and respect for all good people of faith. I dont share your faith but that doesnt make me bad or you good. And it doesnt make me right or you wrong. As much an atheist as I am I hope never to be so excited about my opinions as to believe they are the last word. Nor should you

171 AndyMacOP  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:46:46pm

re: #163 buzzsawmonkey

Now that's a rhyming reach!

172 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:11pm

re: #165 DEZes

I'm doing OK, although a strange day its been.
Got in my van to drive home and heard a meow.
Look to the back and a cat is looking at me from under the seat,
three kittens were mewing.
Mama cat wont come out, and I thought well, I have seen the cat before in my neighborhood, so it had to have rode to work with me this morning, so the ride home should be OK, and I will deal with it at home.
Also looking at the mother cat, I noticed she had goop eye.
So I stopped at the vet and got some medicine.
Got home, went in the house and got a can of cat food.
She knew the sound of a can opening and came out and ate.
Let me pet her and even let me get some medicine in its eyes.
and then it went right back under the seat with its kittens.
I am sitting here thinking about my options.
;)

Do the right thing here, as I know you will: there is a duty to rescue.

173 jaunte  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:14pm

re: #164 zombie

I think secured lemurs became extinct during the Obamic epoch.

174 Mr Secul  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:18pm

Check out this research article at plosone it has greater detail.

175 callahan23  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:20pm

re: #163 buzzsawmonkey

Not only is he an early human ancestor, he's the inventor of the Lemurick:

There once was a rare early fossil
Whose discovery was hailed as colossal
It seems that you and me
His descendants might be
Which caused creationists some distressal.

Oh, you great lord of the Lemurick
LOL

176 fizzlogic  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:23pm

Rush Limbaugh does a spectacular job putting a secular face on social conservatism. But that's all he's about. He's the one that's been driving GOP bus over the cliff. Until he's retired and all his clones are gone the GOP won't recover.

177 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:26pm

re: #143 Desert Dog

those are even older too, yes?

Yes, much.

178 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:32pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

False choice.

You know it.

Evolution does not deny what set it in motion.

It simply describes motion.

Same with the Big Bang.

Doesn't God punish those who invoke his name in vain to argue a point? And bear false witness? Aren't you mischaracterizing the arguments of others in a false claim of Godliness.

179 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:46pm

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

And, what is your expertise in the fossil record? How many fossils have you studied and handled? A fossil is rock, the earth is in good shape, and it's about 4 billion years old. It's made of a lot of rock.

You're not being serious, are you? You forgot the sarcasm tag right?

Give the guy a break, Walter.

Have you not seen the science community get the wrong head on a dinosaur? ...try to convince us in the late 70's that another ice age was imminent? ...I had another that now escapes me..

This looks promising, certainly, but I've seen too many cases of people with agendas making false claims (or ignorant ones) concerning the meaning of findings to suck down the first sensational headline that comes out (I know Charles posted on this some while ago, but it concerned the same finding).

I hope this is what it looks like. It would explain a lot and could take a little of the wind out of the sails of the "ID in public school science class" crowd by removing one of their talking points concerning the "missing link".

180 wrenchwench  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:47:49pm

re: #157 Russkilitlover

And that's a huge legimate problem. Based exclusively on the Constitution. However, if my neighbor who has zip, zero, zilch to do with school curriculum holds Creationist beliefs should I shun them and spit on them in public?

I think you could get in trouble with the law if you did that. What are you trying to say?

181 doppelganglander  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:48:04pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Got the "transcript" for Rush's comments on the fossil Ida:

It's an ignorant comment, but it sounds to me like he mainly used the story as a jumping-off point for criticizing Obama and Pelosi.

182 Desert Dog  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:48:19pm

re: #170 justdanny

Dont do that. Keep your faith. Just dont try to teach my kids your dogma. Keep it safe and secure in your life with fellow believers. Practice your faith. Judge me by my works and I'll do the same for you.

I have much love and respect for all good people of faith. I dont share your faith but that doesnt make me bad or you good. And it doesnt make me right or you wrong. As much an atheist as I am I hope never to be so excited about my opinions as to believe they are the last word. Nor should you

Oh ya, well you can go to hell.....that is, if you believed in it!

/just kidding!

183 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:48:21pm

re: #163 buzzsawmonkey

It fell apart at the last word. How about:


There once was a rare early fossil
Whose discovery was hailed as colossal
It seems you and me
His descendants might be
But he won't save you like the True Cross'll.

184 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:48:56pm

re: #165 DEZes

I'm doing OK, although a strange day its been.
Got in my van to drive home and heard a meow.
Look to the back and a cat is looking at me from under the seat,
three kittens were mewing.
Mama cat wont come out, and I thought well, I have seen the cat before in my neighborhood, so it had to have rode to work with me this morning, so the ride home should be OK, and I will deal with it at home.
Also looking at the mother cat, I noticed she had goop eye.
So I stopped at the vet and got some medicine.
Got home, went in the house and got a can of cat food.
She knew the sound of a can opening and came out and ate.
Let me pet her and even let me get some medicine in its eyes.
and then it went right back under the seat with its kittens.
I am sitting here thinking about my options.
;)

Three words........CAR POOL LANE!

185 eddiebear  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:49:31pm

re: #161 John Neverbend

Just one more layer for the O-Buzzsaw to slice through like a hammer.

186 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:49:32pm

the only way this issue is going to be resolved, if it can, will a USSC ruling one way or another and the ruling itself will ursurp Federalism and raise even more controversy with regard to states rights...that's what I think...it will take the rule of law to make these problems go away and everytime the Constitution will take a hit...consider hate crimes/speech or creeping Sharia

187 eddiebear  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:50:11pm

re: #179 eschew_obfuscation

Just ask Manbearpig

188 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:50:24pm

re: #172 Guanxi88

Do the right thing here, as I know you will: there is a duty to rescue.

I just spent twenty bucks on the cat, and its not mine.
I'll treat it well, it just cant live in my van.;)
Leave a window down just one time, such is life.

189 fizzlogic  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:50:41pm

re: #79 Charles

Levin never debates. He gets louder and more guttural playing control freak over his opponent. But remember, he's "the great one". That's what Rush and Hannity say.

190 quickjustice  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:51:05pm

re: #38 Gus 802

I still think it's typical "shoot from the hip" Limbaugh bombast. He seems to advocate for the "micro evolution" versus "macro evolution" distinction, which this find would tend to disprove. I'd say he's half-baked on this issue.

191 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:51:14pm

re: #186 albusteve

the only way this issue is going to be resolved, if it can, will a USSC ruling one way or another and the ruling itself will ursurp Federalism and raise even more controversy with regard to states rights...that's what I think...it will take the rule of law to make these problems go away and everytime the Constitution will take a hit...consider hate crimes/speech or creeping Sharia

The SCOTUS already did rule on this issue and declared creation science to be unconstitutional. The problem is, they created ID to get around that ruling. At some point, it will come to a head again, but even a second SCOTUS ruling against them will likely just send them back to the drawing board. They'll never stop.

192 brookly red  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:51:21pm

re: #188 DEZes

I just spent twenty bucks on the cat, and its not mine.
I'll treat it well, it just cant live in my van.;)
Leave a window down just one time, such is life.

it appeares that you have been chosen :)

193 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:51:23pm


If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

194 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:51:36pm

re: #189 trendsurfer

Levin never debates. He gets louder and more guttural playing control freak over his opponent. But remember, he's "the great one". That's what Rush and Hannity say.

The one what they fail to specify.

195 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:51:42pm

re: #182 Desert Dog
;) Funny how many people think I'm a devil worshipper because I don't believe in god. Maybe not so funny. Actually a little scary.

196 wrenchwench  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:14pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

The evolutionary tree has more than one branch.

197 Dianna  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:19pm

re: #12 zombie

Does Ida the proto-lemur-human have a soul? Inquiring theologians demand to know!

Is Ida now in heaven, hell, limbo, dog-heaven, or has she been reincarnated as Rush Limbaugh?

Now that would be deep irony!

198 AndyMacOP  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:25pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

Oh no, here we go...

199 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:29pm

re: #193 negativ

Read Stephen Jay Gould. Any one of his books will suffice.

200 johnnyreb  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:38pm

Not sure how the heck an evolution thread became a thread about Rush as the spokesman for the Republican party. Odd how that works out.

201 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:44pm
202 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:51pm

re: #193 negativ
We are monkeys. Great fancy monkeys.

203 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:52:52pm

re: #195 justdanny

Could be the beelzebub picture you have for an avatar.
/

204 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:53:08pm

re: #193 negativ

What part of "common ancestor" are you confused about?

205 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:53:17pm

re: #193 negativ

Heh, we haven't seen that easily debunked talking point it quite a while around here.

206 justabill  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:53:26pm

re: #182 Desert Dog

Oh ya, well you can go to hell.....that is, if you believed in it!

/just kidding!


Since were on the topic of hell and were talking about entropy and thermodynamics earlier, let me take the opportunity to post a classic...
Thermodynamics of Hell

207 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:53:29pm

Well then, gotta get home to the fiancee now, y'all have a good'un, and good luck with the meltdowns if they happen!

208 Cicero05  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:53:32pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

Graduation isn't automatic, you have to earn it. The monkeys were slackers.

209 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:53:59pm

re: #202 justdanny

We are monkeys. Great fancy monkeys.

Hybrid monkeys eating hybrid bananas.

210 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:54:01pm

re: #191 Sharmuta

The SCOTUS already did rule on this issue and declared creation science to be unconstitutional. The problem is, they created ID to get around that ruling. At some point, it will come to a head again, but even a second SCOTUS ruling against them will likely just send them back to the drawing board. They'll never stop.

I have a feeling you are right...there will need to be a ruling that you cannot bring suit.....it will go on forevah!...what IS science and where do we find it?

211 Dianna  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:54:24pm

re: #202 justdanny

We are monkeys. Great fancy monkeys.

Well, no, we're not. We don't have tails...I seem to remember that this makes us apes.

212 Querent  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:54:35pm

re: #1 unrealizedviewpoint

The thread you're all waiting for...

Yes! 'tis i, the Phantom Up-Dinger, here to combat those hordes of down-dingers with my legions of positive feedback!

(and today i'm in an exceptionally good mood. Must be that groundswell of ticked-off CA taxpayers...)

213 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:54:37pm

re: #184 Russkilitlover

Three words........CAR POOL LANE!

LMAO!

214 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:00pm

re: #163 buzzsawmonkey

Not only is he an early human ancestor, he's the inventor of the Lemurick:

There once was a rare early fossil
Whose discovery was hailed as colossal
It seems that you and me
His descendants might be
Which caused creationists some distressal.

Are you trying to raise the Creationists' Eire?

215 filetandrelease  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:01pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton
My apologies for being dogmatic ealier. it seems others have heard Rush speak with ambiguity on the matter.

I'm just glad I washed my feet this morning.

216 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:03pm
217 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:15pm

re: #211 Dianna

Well, no, we're not. We don't have tails...I seem to remember that this makes us apes.

We don't?
/crap

218 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:28pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

They evolved to their environment just as we evolved to ours. Why are their so many species of fish in the sea or birds in the sky when they all basically do the same thing? Surely if there was intelligent design involed, there would be no need to for so many different complex forms.

219 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:30pm

re: #126 BigDana

What I'm seeing in this photograph looks like something ginned up for the Smithsonian gift shop. Or else something helped along greatly by Photoshop.

I've not handled any fossils, but I've read about this sort of thing in books, and seen photographs, for years. Stuff that's millions of years old seldom looks this clean, if ever. Oh, sure, in childrens' pop-up books, where dinosaurs look cute and cuddly.

This is supposed to be reality. I think we need to see if this thing passes the Time Test. There have been fakes in recent years -- we've all read about them. Let's hope this is not one of them.

Sorry, I have to sign off now -- wife is ringing the dinner bell.

I don't know where to start with this comment above. It is evident that this person know absolutely nothing about fossils, their preservation, their composition, what they look like when found "in situ," the amount of science and testing that goes behind the study of an artifact of this nature.

They have been studying this one fossil for over two years. It would not even get to this point of publication without peer review, INCLUDING peer review from scientist that believe in creationism.

I have unremarkable fossils with in reach of my hands right now that are as well preserved and intact as this one above.

You must have taken a page from another non-scientist's book, Rush Limbaugh.

Geeessshhhh...

220 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:33pm

re: #180 wrenchwench

I think you could get in trouble with the law if you did that. What are you trying to say?

I'm saying that I won't discount the entire person because of a religios belief and in a gross oversimplification I would say that I won't discount someone's opinions because of their Creationist beliefs anymore than I would discount my Jewish friends for not joining me in a BLT.

To the extent that their Creationist beliefs affect me and my behavior, then, yeah, we gots us a problems. I could not reconcile a friendship with an Islamic fundamentalist, for example.

221 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:34pm

re: #192 brookly red

it appeares that you have been chosen :)

So it would seem, hey want a kitten?
:)

222 Dianna  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:39pm

re: #212 Querent

What are the returns looking like?

223 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:55:47pm

re: #203 Truck Monkey

Haha. That aint lucifer. Thats red Danny. Republican Red Danny. Except now that I'm back online I'm learning that the new republican party doesnt like me as much as it did before the snake oil salesman got elected.

224 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:56:02pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

Funny, if you're being sarcastic. Pitiable and hyper-ignorant, if you're being serious.

225 quickjustice  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:56:09pm

re: #79 Charles

Levin always screams like a maniac at liberal callers, and then hangs up on them. It's part of his schtick! It's also why I no longer listen to him. I don't like his tone.

226 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:56:27pm

re: #188 DEZes

So the Cat took your $20 and split, sounds like a Saturday night.

227 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:56:29pm

re: #126 BigDana


I've not handled any fossils

Then you really aren't qualified to form an opinion.


Stuff that's millions of years old seldom looks this clean, if ever.

Actually, it often does look this clean, or more so.

There have been fakes in recent years

As a matter of fact, there have been. Creationists are famous for producing fake fossils. They are easy to spot, because they never manage to polish out all the chisel marks and don't bother getting their anatomy right.

There don't appear to be any such issues with this piece. Nor am I aware of any "fakes in recent years" by scientists, nor in not so recent years.

228 Dianna  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:56:38pm

re: #217 Truck Monkey

We don't?
/crap

Every now and again, I can't help but think that a prehensile tail would come in awfully handy.

229 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:57:09pm
230 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:57:40pm

re: #228 Dianna

Every now and again, I can't help but think that a prehensile tail would come in awfully handy.

I get a little tail 2 or 3 times a week

231 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:58:09pm

re: #209 Sharmuta

Hybrid monkeys eating hybrid bananas.

Or cheeseburgers as is the case with me.

232 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:58:11pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

And where do you find faith and science to be mutually exclusive?

233 brookly red  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:58:18pm

re: #221 DEZes

So it would seem, hey want a kitten?
:)

thank you, but not so much...

234 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:58:19pm

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was going to go there but you beat me to it.
crap.

235 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:58:50pm

re: #234 Truck Monkey

I was going to go there but you beat me to it.
crap.

Then the day is mine

236 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:58:55pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

So we all have someone like you to smack around. Next question?

237 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:02pm

re: #221 DEZes

So it would seem, hey want a kitten?
:)

What do they taste like?

/

238 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:02pm

When fact proves an assumption wrong, rationality calls for one to replace the assumption with the fact and rethink affected matters.

If one accepts that God gave us the capacity to reason, then isn't one compelled to rethink matters regarding Evolution when new facts are presented.

This is not a test of faith.

It is a test of the rational capacity that God gave you.

There is nothing to fear in using the capacity that God gave you to think unless your faith is indeed weak. And maybe that is what is at issue - maybe many "believers" are too weak in their faith to consider that evolution is real.

If so, then THAT is the test of faith.

Don't be weak. Think.

Many people find reason and discovery as confirming their faith - me among them.

239 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:10pm

re: #229 buzzsawmonkey

Gee, I don't know--could it be that different organisms have different capacities and grow in different directions?

Naaaah; that's why we all have Ph.Ds.

I personally consider myself somewhat of a tweener...I have a few diplomas but not the Big One...

oooh
oooh
oooh!

240 Dianna  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:11pm

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I get a little tail 2 or 3 times a week

I'm glad for you.

Now, let's move on.

241 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:19pm

re: #232 jcm

And where do you find faith and science to be mutually exclusive?

Not a lot of room in a narrow mind.

242 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:23pm

re: #211 Dianna

Well, no, we're not. We don't have tails...I seem to remember that this makes us apes.


Semantics

243 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:34pm
244 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 2:59:39pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

Because evolution isn't a ladder, it's more of a bush. See 'Cladistics' for a more formal description.

245 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:00:14pm

re: #237 Truck Monkey

What do they taste like?

/

I never licked one to find out. ;)

246 researchok  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:00:22pm

For this believer, evolution is intelligent design.

247 wrenchwench  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:00:25pm

re: #220 Russkilitlover

I'm saying that I won't discount the entire person because of a religios belief and in a gross oversimplification I would say that I won't discount someone's opinions because of their Creationist beliefs anymore than I would discount my Jewish friends for not joining me in a BLT.

To the extent that their Creationist beliefs affect me and my behavior, then, yeah, we gots us a problems. I could not reconcile a friendship with an Islamic fundamentalist, for example.

When it comes to individuals, I'm not very judgmental, unless they are running for office. That's a different story entirely.

248 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:00:31pm
249 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:00:45pm

re: #220 Russkilitlover

Is this because of what I said about pundits trying to tell me what to think but can't take the time to look at the evidence for evolution?

Because I'll tell ya- when I'm speaking with someone on intellectual matter and they say something stupid (on any topic, not just science)- you're damn straight I start to wonder about the rest of what they've said. They may be right, and they may be wrong but I'm going to check into a few things and come to my own conclusion.

And it doesn't mean I won't speak to them again about things. It's likely I'll try to correct them where I feel they're wrong.

250 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:00:54pm

re: #228 Dianna

For a good old fashioned smack down, lets say.

251 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:01:02pm

re: #245 DEZes

I never licked one to find out. ;)

monkey brain gumbo is a big deal in China

252 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:01:04pm

re: #218 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They evolved to their environment just as we evolved to ours. Why are their so many species of fish in the sea or birds in the sky when they all basically do the same thing? Surely if there was intelligent design involed, there would be no need to for so many different complex forms.

HAH!

If we evolved to our environment I'd still have gills. Been raining like crazy for two days....
////

253 doppelganglander  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:01:10pm

Just a thought -- I don't know or care what Rush's personal opinions about evolution are. I do think he's trying really hard not to alienate the large portion of his audience that are creationists. It's an example of the same fear of the fundamentalists that drives many Republican politicians to make asinine statements about presenting different viewpoints. Some of them may be creationists, especially the overtly religious ones like DeMent, but I strongly suspect many are just going along to get along.

254 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:01:12pm

re: #245 DEZes

I never licked one to find out. ;)

The poor poor kitten

255 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:01:39pm

re: #201 buzzsawmonkey

Good one--but I try and stay away from any sectarian disparagement in stuff like this. Sure, "distressal" is a bit of a reach, but there's a long tradition in limericks of messing about with words in that way. I may tweak it if a better non-sectarian rhyme presents itself.

OK -- third time's the charm:

There once was a rare early fossil
Whose discovery was hailed as colossal
It seems you and me
His descendants might be
So he likely was reckless and docile.

256 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:01:58pm

re: #231 justdanny

Or cheeseburgers as is the case with me.

Have you seen the video yet called the Atheist Nightmare? They use bananas as proof of God- never mind it's a hybrid plant created by man.

257 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:02:16pm

I want my tail back! Devolution!

258 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:02:17pm

re: #243 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sorry, but everyone is post-hensile now.

Doesn't "post-hensile" mean "after the Muppets"?
///

259 Mr Secul  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:02:28pm

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

From wikipedia

The "Piltdown Man" is a famous paleontological hoax concerning the finding of the remains of a previously unknown early human. The hoax find consisted of fragments of a skull and jawbone collected in 1912 from a gravel pit at Piltdown, a village near Uckfield, East Sussex, England.

From plosone

The new specimen, like some other Messel finds, is complete even to distal phalanges and terminal tail vertebrae. Moreover, it was exceptionally preserved during fossilization, retaining soft tissue outlines and contents of the digestive tract. Like other Messel fossils, however, the skeleton is lightly crushed and must be examined in place. Individual bones and teeth cannot be physically removed to examine individually, a difficulty we have partially overcome with innovative CT imagery.

The specimen is a juvenile, but erupting teeth indicate the developmental age and enable prediction of further growth of the body and limbs. The completeness of the fossil allows us to reconstruct aspects of life history, diet, and locomotion that are difficult to study in fossils. In addition, the skeleton enables identification of characteristics routinely used to distinguish strepsirrhine and haplorhine primates. Our focus here is on morphology and paleobiology, but the skeleton has interest for primate phylogeny as well. The skeleton's features clarify morphologies that have been given critical weight in primate phylogeny, and call into question accepted wisdom about the origin of higher primates.

From the pdf from the site Charles linked to:

For the past two years, an international team of scientists, led by world-renowned
Norwegian fossil scientist Dr Jørn Hurum, University of Oslo Natural History Museum, has secretly conducted a detailed forensic analysis of the extraordinary fossil, studying the data to decode humankind s ancient origins.

Did you read any of this before you posted?

260 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:02:35pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

Your thinking in linear terms, start branching out a bit.

261 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:02:37pm

re: #245 DEZes

I never licked one to find out. ;)

There are so so many really bad places I could go with this. Maybe I'll just go and mow the lawn.

262 quickjustice  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:03:05pm

re: #165 DEZes

Sounds like you have a new family if you want it!

263 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:03:26pm

re: #259 Mr Secul

Why would anyone want to read the information before posting?

Clicking links burns us, Precious.

264 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:03:54pm

re: #261 Truck Monkey

There are so so many really bad places I could go with this. Maybe I'll just go and mow the lawn.

Do you need my address?

265 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:03:55pm

re: #246 researchok

For this believer, evolution is intelligent design.

So is that to suggest that science will one day prove the existence of a higher power?

266 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:04:32pm

re: #263 Sharmuta

Why would anyone want to read the information before posting?

Clicking links burns us, Precious.

I don't remember that from the movie?

267 doppelganglander  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:04:33pm

Time to get outside for some fresh air and sunshine. Later, lizards.

268 johnnyreb  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:04:38pm

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

I don't know where to start with this comment above. It is evident that this person know absolutely nothing about fossils, their preservation, their composition, what they look like when found "in situ," the amount of science and testing that goes behind the study of an artifact of this nature.

They have been studying this one fossil for over two years. It would not even get to this point of publication without peer review, INCLUDING peer review from scientist that believe in creationism.

I have unremarkable fossils with in reach of my hands right now that are as well preserved and intact as this one above.

You must have taken a page from another non-scientist's book, Rush Limbaugh.

Geeessshhhh...


Yep just like the peer review and consensus on the hockey stick by Mr. Mann for global warming. Peer reviewed by about 25 scientists and still considered one of the biggest hoaxes of the global warming movement.

I cringe when people say the words "peer reviewed" and "consensus" in regards to science, they have been truly corrupted.

269 Gella  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:04:40pm

re: #257 Cato the Elder

I want my tail back! Devolution!

i seen new x-man character :)

270 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:05:28pm

re: #261 Truck Monkey

Grass killer!
Don't you dare chop the heads off of those poor innocent blades of natural goodness!
-People For the Ethical Treatment of Vegetation

271 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:05:28pm
272 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:05:48pm

re: #249 Sharmuta

Is this because of what I said about pundits trying to tell me what to think but can't take the time to look at the evidence for evolution?

No it's about the whiff of hysteria around those who say, "Lookey here, a Creationist! Shun them! Disown them! I don't like to muck around with someone's faith. However, if that "faith" tries to get shoved into the public arena and forced on people, then I'll scream loud and clear. The first Amendment covers this threat for us pretty succinctly IMO.

273 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:06:00pm

It scared me at first when I saw the slick site, the videos, etc. I thought "oh no, going to press direct without publishing first..." Then I saw the paper, and was relieved. Here's the link:

[Link: www.plosone.org...]

274 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:06:04pm

re: #267 doppelganglander

Bring beer.

275 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:06:15pm

re: #256 Sharmuta

Have you seen the video yet called the Atheist Nightmare? They use bananas as proof of God- never mind it's a hybrid plant created by man.


Nope, I purposely avoid anything that says atheist in it. I have never read any atheist lit. or been involved with any kind of atheist group. I am a non activist atheist.

Sounds funny though.

276 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:06:21pm

re: #264 Nevergiveup

Do you need my address?

If I could make a living doing lawns I would gladly trade in my phones, computer, and desk for some boots and a walk behind mower. I always tell Mrs. Monkey that when my ship comes in I am going to offer to mow the clubs gold course for greens fees. She thinks (rightly so) that I am insane.

277 gander  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:06:26pm

It looks like a Lizard to me.

278 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:06:40pm
279 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:07:14pm

re: #128 Honorary Yooper

A lot of fossils preserved in fine limestone tend to have this same look to them. The fine lime preserves a lot of finer details that otherwise might not be preserved. Here's another fossil like that.

I seem to recall that Archaeopterix is preserved in shale, not limestone. But I could be wrong.

The detail of preservation is amazing in either case. Fine structure like barbels on the feathers can be seen.

280 Dianna  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:07:15pm

re: #250 the1sgjohns

For a good old fashioned smack down, lets say.

Ask Avanti and turn - I keep a sword for that!

281 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:07:28pm

re: #270 Lincolntf

Grass killer!
Don't you dare chop the heads off of those poor innocent blades of natural goodness!
-People For the Ethical Treatment of Vegetation

Do you know that Baby Carrots scream for their mothers as they are yanked from the ground?

282 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:08:36pm

re: #262 quickjustice

Sounds like you have a new family if you want it!

I have 2 indoor cats, I think ill see if this lil mama minds my garage.

Oh, Callahan I did respond to your question if you were wondering.

283 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:08:46pm

re: #272 Russkilitlover

No it's about the whiff of hysteria around those who say, "Lookey here, a Creationist! Shun them! Disown them! I don't like to muck around with someone's faith. However, if that "faith" tries to get shoved into the public arena and forced on people, then I'll scream loud and clear. The first Amendment covers this threat for us pretty succinctly IMO.

Who is being hysterical?

284 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:08:48pm

re: #281 Truck Monkey

Do you know that Baby Carrots scream for their mothers as they are yanked from the ground?

285 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:09:23pm

For me, Rush had jumped the shark back in 1990 or so when I first heard him ranting about "femi-Nazis".

He's funny as an example of what you get when you play to the slowest common denominator, but frightening when you realize how common that denominator is.

286 researchok  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:09:31pm

re: #265 the1sgjohns

So is that to suggest that science will one day prove the existence of a higher power?

There is no reason that faith must preclude evolution.

As for what will happen someday, well, I have no idea.

For now I'd be happy to get a reliable weekend weather forecast.

287 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:09:33pm

re: #268 johnnyreb

Yep just like the peer review and consensus on the hockey stick by Mr. Mann for global warming. Peer reviewed by about 25 scientists and still considered one of the biggest hoaxes of the global warming movement.

I cringe when people say the words "peer reviewed" and "consensus" in regards to science, they have been truly corrupted.

Well, I don't care if you like it or not. It is a valid process that helps shake out the fluff and the junk. Does it always work, no, does it work most of the time, yes, and it also is something that a scientist needs to consider before he or she publishes.

Of course, Johnny, you never address my actual comment about the natural state of fossils, their preservation nor any of the points in the article itself. I suspect you know very little about the nature of fossils themselves, or else you would find the original statement that I was addressing ludicrous.

You example does not diminish the science. Address the science Johnny.

288 Dianna  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:09:33pm

I'm out!

289 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:09:35pm
290 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:09:40pm
291 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:10:03pm

re: #275 justdanny

It's pretty funny.

292 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:10:08pm

OOOOOOH, I feel a major seething coming soon.

Democrats won't fund Guantanamo

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama's allies in the Senate will not provide funds to close the Guantanamo Bay prison until the administration comes up with a satisfactory plan for transferring the detainees held there, top Democrats said Tuesday.

And in a further break with Obama, the Senate's top Democrat said he opposes transferring any Guantanamo prisoners to the United States for their trials or to serve their sentences. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates has said 50 to 100 Guantanamo detainees may be transferred to U.S. facilities.

"I can't make it any more clear," Reid said. "We will never allow terrorists to be released in the United States."

Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois said Obama's plan to close Guantanamo is not dead — only that the funding will have to wait until the administration devises an acceptable plan to handle the closure and transfer the detainees. Obama has promised to close the military prison by January.

293 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:10:32pm

re: #275 justdanny

Nope, I purposely avoid anything that says atheist in it. I have never read any atheist lit. or been involved with any kind of atheist group. I am a non activist atheist.

Sounds funny though.

It's actually the other way around. It's by a couple of creationists that use the modern cultivated banana as an argument.

294 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:10:33pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

If evolution is false, you would still be an amoeba and find it hard to type.

295 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:10:43pm

re: #279 SixDegrees

I seem to recall that Archaeopterix is preserved in shale, not limestone. But I could be wrong.

The detail of preservation is amazing in either case. Fine structure like barbels on the feathers can be seen.

Yes.

296 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:10:51pm

re: #291 Sharmuta
Okay okay. Watching it......now.

297 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:11:03pm

re: #126 BigDana


This is supposed to be reality. I think we need to see if this thing passes the Time Test. There have been fakes in recent years -- we've all read about them. Let's hope this is not one of them.

Well, apparently they've been studying this fossil for two years now, so I think we're well past the "48 hour rule" here.

298 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:11:15pm
299 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:11:20pm

Here's the video debunking the Atheist Nightmare

300 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:11:30pm

re: #285 Cato the Elder

For me, Rush had jumped the shark back in 1990 or so when I first heard him ranting about "femi-Nazis".

He's funny as an example of what you get when you play to the slowest common denominator, but frightening when you realize how common that denominator is.

That's the scary truth.

301 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:11:34pm
302 acwgusa  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:12:10pm

Who do I blame for male pattern baldness?

God ain't bald, and I've never seen a ape with a comb-over.

/Ape with a comb-over. Heh-heh.

303 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:12:46pm

re: #283 Sharmuta

Who is being hysterical?

You want me to "out" them? I just got through explaining that I don't roll that way.

304 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:13:04pm

re: #301 buzzsawmonkey

Somebody needs to do a Three Democratic Stooges act, with GuantanaMoe, GuantanaLarry, and GuantanaCurly.

But what about Guantanamera?

305 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:13:06pm

re: #286 researchok

Oh, reliable weekend weather forecasts, well you just revealed your location Mr. Bond...the NorthWest... ha ha ha :) Wish we could get the same thing.

306 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:13:17pm

re: #296 justdanny

I found that more sad than funny. AND, now I want a banana.

307 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:14:16pm

Gotta run. Gotta let someone go. He's earned this and he's a total selfish prick of a jerk, to boot. But I feel awful.

308 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:14:41pm

re: #307 Russkilitlover

Gotta run. Gotta let someone go. He's earned this and he's a total selfish prick of a jerk, to boot. But I feel awful.

Just close your eyes and think of England

309 callahan23  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:14:49pm

re: #282 DEZes

I have 2 indoor cats, I think ill see if this lil mama minds my garage.

Oh, Callahan I did respond to your question if you were wondering.

Sorry, sorry and again sorry.
I was thrown off again by Firefox. Safari is the browser to go with LGF.
I would try and find the real owners of that mother cat in your van. Other than that it would be really difficult.
I hope it'll find your garage adequate.

310 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:15:03pm

re: #259 Mr Secul

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

From wikipedia

The "Piltdown Man" is a famous paleontological hoax concerning the finding of the remains of a previously unknown early human. The hoax find consisted of fragments of a skull and jawbone collected in 1912 from a gravel pit at Piltdown, a village near Uckfield, East Sussex, England.

From plosone

The new specimen, like some other Messel finds, is complete even to distal phalanges and terminal tail vertebrae. Moreover, it was exceptionally preserved during fossilization, retaining soft tissue outlines and contents of the digestive tract. Like other Messel fossils, however, the skeleton is lightly crushed and must be examined in place. Individual bones and teeth cannot be physically removed to examine individually, a difficulty we have partially overcome with innovative CT imagery.

The specimen is a juvenile, but erupting teeth indicate the developmental age and enable prediction of further growth of the body and limbs. The completeness of the fossil allows us to reconstruct aspects of life history, diet, and locomotion that are difficult to study in fossils. In addition, the skeleton enables identification of characteristics routinely used to distinguish strepsirrhine and haplorhine primates. Our focus here is on morphology and paleobiology, but the skeleton has interest for primate phylogeny as well. The skeleton's features clarify morphologies that have been given critical weight in primate phylogeny, and call into question accepted wisdom about the origin of higher primates.

From the pdf from the site Charles linked to:

For the past two years, an international team of scientists, led by world-renowned
Norwegian fossil scientist Dr Jørn Hurum, University of Oslo Natural History Museum, has secretly conducted a detailed forensic analysis of the extraordinary fossil, studying the data to decode humankind s ancient origins.

Did you read any of this before you posted?

Just a note on Piltdown Man. The latest speculation on who planted the fake centers on Teilhard De Chardin - a Jesuit priest - who may have planted it as a practical joke on a couple of his fellow students. De Chardin was also a paleontologist, although that came somewhat after his participation in the Piltdown dig.

311 Wendya  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:15:12pm

For anyone who is interested, a link to the actual paper:

[Link: www.plosone.org...]

312 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:15:17pm

re: #304 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But what about Guantanamera?

Guantanashemp.

313 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:15:31pm

re: #298 taxfreekiller

50 millions years, must be democrat government workers on that. lol.

314 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:16:30pm

re: #307 Russkilitlover

Gotta run. Gotta let someone go. He's earned this and he's a total selfish prick of a jerk, to boot. But I feel awful.

Good Luck. I've fired plenty of people and even the ones that deserve it somehow don't deserve it.... if that makes any sense at all.

315 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:16:35pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. Fast food is not good for you. I'll renounce my belief of ingestion and stop eating. Thank you.

/makes about as much sense, eh?

316 CantonJim  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:16:36pm

The jaws bear a STRONG resemblance to Nancy Pelosi and my ex-wife.

SCARY!

317 johnnyreb  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:17:23pm

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

Well, I don't care if you like it or not. It is a valid process that helps shake out the fluff and the junk. Does it always work, no, does it work most of the time, yes, and it also is something that a scientist needs to consider before he or she publishes.

Of course, Johnny, you never address my actual comment about the natural state of fossils, their preservation nor any of the points in the article itself. I suspect you know very little about the nature of fossils themselves, or else you would find the original statement that I was addressing ludicrous.

You example does not diminish the science. Address the science Johnny.

Well I was addressing what I thought was your main point in your post. As it was in all CAPS I thought that was what your were addressing:

They have been studying this one fossil for over two years. It would not even get to this point of publication without peer review, INCLUDING peer review from scientist that believe in creationism.

If that was not your main point, why did you put it in all caps? The Piltdown man was about the science also. It took over 40 years for that to come out.

318 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:17:36pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

Here's the video debunking the Atheist Nightmare



Now thats funny. Shredding the silliness is always funny to me.

319 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:17:36pm

re: #309 callahan23

Sorry, sorry and again sorry.
I was thrown off again by Firefox. Safari is the browser to go with LGF.
I would try and find the real owners of that mother cat in your van. Other than that it would be really difficult.
I hope it'll find your garage adequate.

Well with a heavy infection in one eye, I dont think the owners were taking care of the cat.
If people are gonna have pets they need to take care of them.
This cat seems to be a sweetheart, her owner would do well not to meet me. ;)

320 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:19:03pm

Still reading the paper, what a great find. This critter was small about 1.3 to 2 pounds if it had grown to adult size.

321 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:19:06pm
322 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:19:07pm

re: #316 CantonJim

The jaws bear a STRONG resemblance to Nancy Pelosi and my ex-wife.

SCARY!

If you look very closely you can imagine that this is actually Helen Thomas before she prettys up in the morniong.

323 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:19:12pm

re: #316 CantonJim

The jaws bear a STRONG resemblance to Nancy Pelosi and my ex-wife.

SCARY!

Aren't all ex-wifes cut from the same DNA cloth...essences of bitch

324 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:20:17pm

re: #157 Russkilitlover

And that's a huge legimate problem. Based exclusively on the Constitution. However, if my neighbor who has zip, zero, zilch to do with school curriculum holds Creationist beliefs should I shun them and spit on them in public?

Who is suggesting that you should?

325 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:20:51pm

re: #323 the1sgjohns

Right- because men are perfect.

326 Yidwithlid  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:20:56pm

It looks like my brother-in-law the Dhimmi-crat

327 calcajun  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:21:21pm

re: #322 opnion

Helen Thomas before she prettys up

What in the Wide World of Sports could look that bad!

328 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:21:38pm
329 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:22:04pm

re: #325 Sharmuta

Uh, no. ex-husbands are also cut from the same DNA cloth...insert your own funny there.

330 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:22:27pm
331 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:22:34pm

re: #327 calcajun

What in the Wide World of Sports could look that bad!


Only before her morning grooming regimine.

332 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:22:43pm

re: #268 johnnyreb

Yep just like the peer review and consensus on the hockey stick by Mr. Mann for global warming. Peer reviewed by about 25 scientists and still considered one of the biggest hoaxes of the global warming movement.

I cringe when people say the words "peer reviewed" and "consensus" in regards to science, they have been truly corrupted.

Come on. That's a ridiculous exaggeration.

First of all, the hockey stick graph was NOT a hoax; there may have been mistaken data involved -- this is NOT settled yet -- but calling it a "hoax" is absurd.

Second, the peer review process is absolutely NOT "corrupted." It's the best possible system for checking and verifying scientific theories. Are there occasional mistakes? Yes, as in any other human endeavor. But the infrequent mistakes do NOT invalidate the whole process.

333 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:22:52pm

re: #317 johnnyreb

Well I was addressing what I thought was your main point in your post. As it was in all CAPS I thought that was what your were addressing:

They have been studying this one fossil for over two years. It would not even get to this point of publication without peer review, INCLUDING peer review from scientist that believe in creationism.

If that was not your main point, why did you put it in all caps? The Piltdown man was about the science also. It took over 40 years for that to come out.

You just wasted another post. My original comment was mainly address the fossil itself and the condition. The person said it looked like something that came out of a gift shop.

And using science that is almost a hundred years old is a straw man. Guess what, things have changed since Piltdown. And guess what, fakes happen, but not every scientific discovery is a fake.

334 Mr Secul  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:23:05pm

Lets get her gender right.

And she died a juvenile, she was nobody's ancestor but maybe her relatives had better luck and, eventually, gave rise to us.

From plosone

Messel is a maar lake deposit. The basin in which the deposit accumulated formed during a volcanic explosion. It filled with water, which seemingly, one way or another, accumulated gases that poisoned animals individually, episodically, or periodically [6]–[8]. The result is a diverse fauna of exceptionally preserved insects, fishes, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals [9]–[12].

See here for an explanation of what a maar lake is.

They are dangerous places.

From the pdf:

X-rays reveal that a broken wrist may have contributed to Ida s death her left wrist was healing from a bad fracture. The scientists believe she was overcome by carbon dioxide gas whilst from drinking from the Messel lake: the still waters of the lake were often covered by a low lying blanket of the gas as a result of the volcanic forces that formed the lake and which were still active. Hampered by her broken wrist, Ida slipped into unconsciousness, was washed into the lake, and sunk to the bottom, where unique preservation conditions preserved her for 47 million years.

Read the plosone article and note the level of detail. Contrast this with what the Creationists presented when they claimed they had a cast of a human foot print on top of a dinosaur foot print.

Considering the detail, the work that has gone into the article, and the wealth of information contained in the fossil - I don't think that this is anything like another Piltdown man.

335 martinsmithy  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:23:44pm

I'm glad we lost the tail along the way - that thing would be too easy to step on.

336 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:24:03pm

re: #325 Sharmuta

Right- because men are perfect.

yes, by virtue of our stabbing penis, we are offensive conquerers and woman quail before us...look it up

337 Cognito  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:24:15pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

And for those who didn't hear this earlier, Rush Limbaugh, today on his show, in a 4 sentence comment, said that this was bullshit and evolution does not disprove creation. The scientist has spoken, to millions of listeners, many who will swallow his whole take on this.

I'm late to the show here, and don't listen to much talk radio, but I'm curious as to the context of that opinion. I may believe something similar, depending on his take: To me, and to lots of other people, evolution seems like a dandy means of creation.

338 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:24:33pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

Hey KT. OT but I just saw a snippet of a conversation you had last night:

"Speaking of dikes and gardening......
My fat lesbian neighbor is trying to mow her lawn. She's so fat that she has to be in one of those scooter things. I try not to get too involved because I don't want to become somebody's care taker. A few weeks ago her knees gave out while trying to get a pile of cakes and cookies from her car to her house. It was really depressing bushing the dirt off frosting and helping her up again.
Well, I can't stand watching this so I'm off to mow a fucking lawn. Looks like it's going to gain soon."

I have to say that although I'm not a fan, I think you deserve credit for being kind to your neighbor. Pretty decent thing to do and you have my respect for it.
I'm sorry you seemed to have taken grief for it.
Just sayin'

339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:24:55pm

At last! Uncle Fred!

340 callahan23  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:25:14pm

re: #319 DEZes

Well with a heavy infection in one eye, I dont think the owners were taking care of the cat.
If people are gonna have pets they need to take care of them.
This cat seems to be a sweetheart, her owner would do well not to meet me. ;)

It is a shame how some people treat their pets. These sweet critters place their trust in us to take care of their big issues, such as health. Yet some owners disregard these simple obligations.

341 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:25:20pm

re: #332 Charles

Come on. That's a ridiculous exaggeration.

First of all, the hockey stick graph was NOT a hoax; there may have been mistaken data involved -- this is NOT settled yet -- but calling it a "hoax" is absurd.

Second, the peer review process is absolutely NOT "corrupted." It's the best possible system for checking and verifying scientific theories. Are there occasional mistakes? Yes, as in any other human endeavor. But the infrequent mistakes do NOT invalidate the whole process.

Well, obviously a mistake made one hundred years ago is good enough for Johnny to dismiss any science since then.

Careful Johnny, the electricity in those plugs on the walls in you house, is some powerful voodoo.

/

342 brookly red  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:25:58pm

re: #325 Sharmuta

Right- because men are perfect.

it wasn't always that way... took millions of years.

343 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:26:05pm

re: #335 martinsmithy
But if I had a tail to hang from imagine how many ....ah....
...ah more THINGS I could do while hang around.........
I'm sorry...that was bad!

344 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:26:09pm

re: #335 martinsmithy

I'm glad we lost the tail along the way - that thing would be too easy to step on.

Speak for yourself. I'm always tripping over my...

345 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:26:15pm

re: #337 Cognito

I'm late to the show here, and don't listen to much talk radio, but I'm curious as to the context of that opinion. I may believe something similar, depending on his take: To me, and to lots of other people, evolution seems like a dandy means of creation.

Then Cog, you go up thread and find Gus's comment, he posted the transcript and you can examine what he said. Get back to me on that.

346 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:26:33pm

re: #317 johnnyreb

The Piltdown man was about the science also. It took over 40 years for that to come out.

Actually, Piltdown's authenticity was questioned almost immediately by many scientists, based on published drawings. It was determined to be an amalgam with filed teeth in 1923 after a rare, hands-on examination by Franz Weidenreich.

And of course, no one was looking for evidence that it was fake. Since then, determining authenticity has been the very first step in fossil identification, and particular pains are taken in cases such as this one.

If you have actual evidence that the find may be a forgery of some sort, please write up your findings and submit them for peer review. It is incumbent on the person presenting the claim to provide evidence in support of it. That obligation has been met by the scientists involved in this discovery. It now falls to you to shore up your argument with actual evidence.

347 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:26:35pm
348 Cognito  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:26:55pm

re: #339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

At last! Uncle Fred!

Uncle Fred. Hmm. If you tilt your head a little, he does appear to be extending a finger, as though in request for a tug.

349 Salamantis  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:27:06pm

re: #92 BigDana

I'm not going to call "B.S." on this -- yet -- but I will say that this thing looks to be in awfully good shape for something that's 47 million years old. Just sayin' I'm old enough to remember Piltdown Man.

This thing's been meticulously and painstakingly analysed for two solid years by the leading empirical paleontologists in the field. I think they badly wanted to get it right, and in my opinion, they most probably did. Why? Because they know two things:

1) This is a once in a lifetime chance to make their careers if they get it right.

2) This is a once in a lifetime chance to break their careers if they get it wrong.

350 Cognito  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:28:08pm

re: #345 Walter L. Newton

Then Cog, you go up thread and find Gus's comment, he posted the transcript and you can examine what he said. Get back to me on that.

Yikes. All right. Just makin conversation.

351 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:28:18pm

re: #349 Salamantis

This thing's been meticulously and painstakingly analysed for two solid years by the leading empirical paleontologists in the field. I think they badly wanted to get it right, and in my opinion, they most probably did. Why? Because they know two things:

1) This is a once in a lifetime chance to make their careers if they get it right.

2) This is a once in a lifetime chance to break their careers if they get it wrong.

But what about Piltdown Man, what about Piltdown Man...
/////

352 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:28:44pm

Nice coccyx there, Uncle Fred.

353 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #335 martinsmithy

I'm glad we lost the tail along the way - that thing would be too easy to step on.

Might have been fun on dates, though.

354 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:29:11pm

re: #335 martinsmithy

I'm glad we lost the tail along the way - that thing would be too easy to step on.

We didn't lose it entirely. Humans still have a vestigial tailbone.

355 jcbunga  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:29:40pm

That is one old monkey.

356 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:29:46pm

re: #350 Cognito

Yikes. All right. Just makin conversation.

Sorry, I'm a little stressed today, and when you see the same stupid and totally unfounded comments time after time from the same people who have had it explained to them a hundred times, it gets a little weird.

Again, sorry. But yes, the whole transcript of what Rush said is up thread.

357 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:29:50pm
358 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:29:55pm

re: #352 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nice coccyx there, Uncle Fred.

Knock next time, sheesh.
;)

359 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:31:04pm

re: #349 Salamantis

Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean
Carry the water at the bottom of the ocean
Remove the water at the bottom of the ocean!

360 irish rose  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:31:22pm

Well, this looks like it's going to be a lively thread... too bad that I have to go out.

Try not to set the sofa on fire until I get home from the movies, OK?

361 Cognito  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:31:26pm

re: #354 Charles

We didn't lose it entirely. Humans still have a vestigial tailbone.

Oh thank goodness. I thought I was the only one tucking that thing away.

362 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:31:33pm

re: #357 buzzsawmonkey

Evolution shows how humans did on the Scholastic Ape-titude Tests.

The registrar looked at my scores and all she did was phylum away........

363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:31:57pm

re: #360 irish rose

Depends...what movie?

364 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:32:10pm
365 irish rose  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:33:21pm

re: #363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Depends...what movie?

My youngest son wants to see Trek, so I'm off to showing #2.

366 Salamantis  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:33:37pm

re: #126 BigDana

What I'm seeing in this photograph looks like something ginned up for the Smithsonian gift shop. Or else something helped along greatly by Photoshop.

I've not handled any fossils, but I've read about this sort of thing in books, and seen photographs, for years. Stuff that's millions of years old seldom looks this clean, if ever. Oh, sure, in childrens' pop-up books, where dinosaurs look cute and cuddly.

This is supposed to be reality. I think we need to see if this thing passes the Time Test. There have been fakes in recent years -- we've all read about them. Let's hope this is not one of them.

Sorry, I have to sign off now -- wife is ringing the dinner bell.

It's passed a fine grained two year inspection by the leading minds in the field already. But I have a funny feeling that you wouldn't accept it even if the Ghost of Common Ancestors Past transported you back 47 million years and let you watch it munch some foliage.

367 solomonpanting  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:34:05pm

God created the universe in seven* days but left a trail of disinformation suggesting millions of years of evolution in order to avoid criticism of His Creation.

Norman Mailer

(*Yes, he said seven.)

368 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:34:11pm

re: #364 buzzsawmonkey

Didn't you score at or near genus level?

I thought my score made me smart like a king. Dom is what the graders classified me as.......

369 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:34:27pm

re: #349 Salamantis

Easier...

Same as it ever was.

370 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:34:28pm
371 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:34:44pm

re: #365 irish rose

My youngest son wants to see Trek, so I'm off to showing #2.

Took the kids to see it Saturday, then took my wife and kids again Sunday. As usual, the wife swore up and down she would hate it and didn't want to see it and came out loving it.

372 justdanny  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:35:13pm

re: #354 Charles

We didn't lose it entirely. Humans still have a vestigial tailbone.

And its what hurts when you ride your bike too much, Charles.

373 calcajun  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:35:20pm

re: #354 Charles

We didn't lose it entirely. Humans still have a vestigial tailbone.

so we can, in the words of the late Ray Charles, shake our tail feather!

374 jcbunga  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:35:45pm

Let's not jump to prehensiles

375 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:35:53pm

Here comes the hate mail. As usual, they like to put an innocuous title on it to trick me into reading it. This one is titled, "An idea..."

Dear God....I mean Charles Johnson.
Did you know your shit stinks? You little tyrant. You remind me of
vommit.

People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.

376 debutaunt  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:36:07pm

re: #294 The Shadow Do

If evolution is false, you would still be an amoeba and find it hard to type.

Laptops would have been engineered entirely differently.

377 Salamantis  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:36:19pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

We didn't evolve from apes, we share common hominid ancestors with them. And nothing about the facticity of evolution demands that you cease believing in your preferred deity.

378 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:36:34pm

re: #357 buzzsawmonkey

Evolution shows how humans did on the Scholastic Ape-titude Tests.

Creationists will say, they SAT that one out.

379 Bloodnok  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:36:57pm

re: #375 Charles

Here comes the hate mail. As usual, they like to put an innocuous title on it to trick me into reading it. This one is titled, "An idea..."

People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.

Ah, my favorite claymation series; "Wallace and Vommit."

380 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:37:09pm

re: #375 Charles

Here comes the hate mail. As usual, they like to put an innocuous title on it to trick me into reading it. This one is titled, "An idea..."

People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.

like fresh baked bread we used to say....

381 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:37:42pm

re: #375 Charles

Well, here is one for you. THANK YOU for hosting. I like the debate and honest, sometimes brutal, replies.

382 wrenchwench  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:37:46pm

re: #375 Charles

That one wasn't typed, it was excreted.

383 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:37:55pm

Ok so 1-2 lbs, body about 9.5 inches - from the images you can also see three gripping fingers, and two digits that appear counter posed to those, but not necessarily fully opposed.

384 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:38:22pm

re: #375 Charles

Here comes the hate mail. As usual, they like to put an innocuous title on it to trick me into reading it. This one is titled, "An idea..."


People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.


Stupid Paleo's...
Evryone with 1/2 a brain nows to face up wind!

385 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:38:47pm

re: #137 eprn1n2

So it's all settled. No argument. We evolved from apes. I'll renounce my belief in God the creator and stop going to church. Thank you.

I looked at your avatar, and if that is a picture of you, well, than I think you have a point, you certainly evolved from an ape. Case closed.

386 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:39:06pm

re: #383 Thanos

Ok so 1-2 lbs, body about 9.5 inches - from the images you can also see three gripping fingers, and two digits that appear counter posed to those, but not necessarily fully opposed.

Is there an animal which has two opposed thumbs?

387 johnnyreb  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:39:38pm

re: #332 Charles

Come on. That's a ridiculous exaggeration.

First of all, the hockey stick graph was NOT a hoax; there may have been mistaken data involved -- this is NOT settled yet -- but calling it a "hoax" is absurd.

Second, the peer review process is absolutely NOT "corrupted." It's the best possible system for checking and verifying scientific theories. Are there occasional mistakes? Yes, as in any other human endeavor. But the infrequent mistakes do NOT invalidate the whole process.

Charles I disagree. The hockey stick was proven to be pulled from intentionally corrupt data. Mr. Mann was proven to be using "false" data that he knew was wrong. Nature magazine had the whole thing and they say it was false from the start. That to me is a hoax. And to have more than 25 scientists peer review the study as a legitimate scientific study is self defeating when simple random input produced the same hockey stick.

"It’s not that a single discovery can’t change the existing scientific paradigm—in fact sudden changes are more characteristic of how science progresses than are slowly evolving ideas—it is just that rarely are new paradigms so immediately embraced and exalted as was the “hockey stick.” Instead, new paradigms are typically met with skepticism and disdain as the mainstream is slow to let go of the conventional wisdom. In the case of the “hockey stick” this process was turned on its head—the “hockey stick” immediately was held up as the symbol of “mainstream” thought and anyone who did not wholly accept it was labeled as a skeptic. Additionally, the members of the mainstream often united in organized efforts to severely rebuke each any every critique of the “hockey stick,” oftentimes resorting to personal attacks against the critical party."

388 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:39:53pm

re: #375 Charles

Here comes the hate mail. As usual, they like to put an innocuous title on it to trick me into reading it. This one is titled, "An idea..."

People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.

Charles -

We need a daily virtual stoning thread.

You can post the unfaithful monkey of the day and we can all stone it.

Maybe then the SoCons will feel like you and your blog is capable of redemption.

389 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:40:16pm

The foot however is very interesting, check the digits on it

390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:40:36pm

re: #365 irish rose

Couch'll be on fire by the time you get back. But the movie's a blast!

391 rightymouse  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:40:44pm

re: #386 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Is there an animal which has two opposed thumbs?

My ex-husband?

392 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:40:56pm

re: #375 Charles

Here comes the hate mail. As usual, they like to put an innocuous title on it to trick me into reading it. This one is titled, "An idea..."

People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.

It appears to me the writer has an unhealthy obsession with shit and vomit, Could be he or she is a little flushed.

393 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:41:00pm

re: #370 buzzsawmonkey

It may be 47 million years old, but it doesn't look a day over 46 million.

Do you have to bring Pelosi into everything?

394 Salamantis  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:41:01pm

re: #193 negativ

If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?

Because we didn't evolve from monkeys; monkeys, apes and humans all evolutionarily diverged from ancient common ancestors, like this one.

395 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:41:30pm

re: #386 pre-Boomer Marine brat

None that I am aware of, I"m not saying this has those, it could be just a remant of how the fossil got pressed or crushed

396 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:41:36pm

Looking at a 47 million year olf fossil, does give you a perspective.
The ascendancy of man was not really all that long ago in relative terms.
To me it begs the question, how long do we last?

397 johnnyreb  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:41:42pm

re: #341 Walter L. Newton

Well, obviously a mistake made one hundred years ago is good enough for Johnny to dismiss any science since then.

Careful Johnny, the electricity in those plugs on the walls in you house, is some powerful voodoo.

/

Very nice strawman there Walter. I salute you and him.

398 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:41:50pm

re: #391 rightymouse

My ex-husband?

Only TWO thumbs.
Not ALL thumbs.

399 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:42:15pm

re: #388 karmic_inquisitor

Charles -

We need a daily virtual stoning thread.

You can post the unfaithful monkey of the day and we can all stone it.

Maybe then the SoCons will feel like you and your blog is capable of redemption.

Leave my cousins out of this. Stone a groundhog.

400 Kragar  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:42:27pm

re: #390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Couch'll be on fire by the time you get back. But the movie's a blast!

"Hello Christopher, I'm Nero."

401 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:42:31pm

re: #375 Charles

"Have you ever noticed your own farts don't smell so bad?"
-George Carlin

402 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:42:34pm

re: #397 johnnyreb

Very nice strawman there Walter. I salute you and him.

I learned from the best, you.

403 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:42:41pm

re: #398 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But what a grip, eh?

404 Mr Secul  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:42:41pm

re: #354 Charles

We didn't lose it entirely. Humans still have a vestigial tailbone.

The human tail in all its glory.

There is even a quicktime Stereo View Rotation on that page and it can still be seen in some of the other stages on that site. You can watch it develop and then shrink as the embryo develops.

405 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:42:43pm

re: #395 Thanos

None that I am aware of, I"m not saying this has those, it could be just a remant of how the fossil got pressed or crushed

Yeah. Understand. My question was totally OT to the fossil.

406 solomonpanting  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:44:21pm

re: #396 opnion

Looking at a 47 million year olf fossil, does give you a perspective.
The ascendancy of man was not really all that long ago in relative terms.
To me it begs the question, how long do we last?

Women about 83 years, men slightly less.
/

407 rightymouse  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:44:28pm

re: #370 buzzsawmonkey

It may be 47 million years old, but it doesn't look a day over 46 million.

Could be why facial mud packs are so popular.

408 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:44:37pm

re: #396 opnion

Looking at a 47 million year olf fossil, does give you a perspective.
The ascendancy of man was not really all that long ago in relative terms.
To me it begs the question, how long do we last?

We're still evolving, so who knows?

409 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:45:04pm

re: #406 solomonpanting

Women about 83 years, men slightly less.
/

Well,there's my answer.

410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:45:27pm

re: #396 opnion

Think I saw yesterday on some science show, that if the four billion years was contracted into 24 hours...human ascendancy is about 10 seconds. But that was not including Uncle Fred, I am sure.

411 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:45:29pm

re: #387 johnnyreb

Charles I disagree. The hockey stick was proven to be pulled from intentionally corrupt data. Mr. Mann was proven to be using "false" data that he knew was wrong. Nature magazine had the whole thing and they say it was false from the start.

Please provide a link for that, because I doubt that it's true. Here's a good description of the controversy, and only hardcore anti-AGW people call it a "hoax:"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You didn't say where your long quote came from, so I looked it up, and sure enough it comes from an anti-AGW website.

412 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:45:49pm

re: #408 Sharmuta

We're still evolving, so who knows?

After hearing Rush's statement today, your point may be debatable.

413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:46:14pm

re: #406 solomonpanting

Women about 83 years, men slightly less.
/

I was going to say, "Depends on how long the foreplay lasted."

414 rightymouse  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:46:14pm

re: #398 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Only TWO thumbs.
Not ALL thumbs.

They all looked the same to me.

415 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:46:39pm

re: #396 opnion

Looking at a 47 million year olf fossil, does give you a perspective.
The ascendancy of man was not really all that long ago in relative terms.
To me it begs the question, how long do we last?

I'm selfish. I only care how long I last.
/

416 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:46:48pm

re: #396 opnion

"To me it begs the question, how long do we last?"

Alot of women say not long enough, oh you meant....
Never mind. ;)

417 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:46:50pm

re: #387 johnnyreb

Good going Charles, Johnny busted.

418 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:47:02pm

re: #408 Sharmuta

We're still evolving, so who knows?

True, human beings are very adaptable. I guess though, that it is really weird when you consider our relatively short run so far as a species.

419 apachegunner  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:47:04pm

re: #401 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Have you ever noticed your own farts don't smell so bad?"
-George Carlin

Carlin was a sheet waver?

420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:47:45pm

re: #419 apachegunner

Carlin was a sheet waver?

DUTCH OVEN!

421 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:47:46pm

re: #375 Charles

People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.

I have absolutely zero interest in discovering the veracity of such claims, nor would I support any funding for such a study.

422 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:47:57pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Think I saw yesterday on some science show, that if the four billion years was contracted into 24 hours...human ascendancy is about 10 seconds. But that was not including Uncle Fred, I am sure.

Quite a concept.

423 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:48:06pm

re: #375 Charles

Here comes the hate mail. As usual, they like to put an innocuous title on it to trick me into reading it. This one is titled, "An idea..."

People may have mentioned to me occasionally that my shit stinks, but I refuse to believe it.

Well, dog vomm it, that was an odoriferous message!

424 solomonpanting  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:48:15pm

re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was going to say, "Depends on how long the foreplay lasted."


Get yer mind outta da primordial mud.

425 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:48:15pm

re: #407 rightymouse

Could be why facial mud packs are so popular.

A lady lemur of the Rhine
lay sleeping a very long time.
Then she awakened,
her confidence shaken,
for Time had been very unkind.

426 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:48:16pm

re: #414 rightymouse

They all looked the same to me.

I think the comment had something to do with the way the fossil was laying in the matrix. Two of the digits appear to be slightly opposed to the other three, but it's just probably the positioning.

427 itellu3times  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:48:18pm

re: #396 opnion

Looking at a 47 million year olf fossil, does give you a perspective.

The ascendancy of man was not really all that long ago in relative terms.
To me it begs the question, how long do we last?

I don't know, but I've been told,
If you never slow down, you never grow old.

428 Salamantis  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:48:32pm

re: #265 the1sgjohns

So is that to suggest that science will one day prove the existence of a higher power?

If it did, it would be the end of faith. Faith can only exist in the ABSENCE of evidence; knowledge exists in its PRESENCE.

429 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:48:55pm

re: #418 opnion

True, human beings are very adaptable. I guess though, that it is really weird when you consider our relatively short run so far as a species.

For me, it makes life that much more precious and amazing that we've accomplished so much in so short a time.

430 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:49:05pm

re: #405 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Here's a modern Tarsioidea for comparison

431 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:49:13pm

re: #420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How's the smoking doing? Honest, hanging in there?

432 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:49:20pm

re: #386 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Is there an animal which has two opposed thumbs?

On each hand? Certain arboreal lizards do, if I recall correctly.

433 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:49:21pm

re: #420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Why couldn't that have "Irish Oven" or Canadian Oven"?
You got a problem with the DUTCH?
Racist!
//////

434 Lee Coller  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:50:18pm

Aftershock!

435 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:50:23pm

re: #427 itellu3times

I don't know, but I've been told,
If you never slow down, you never grow old.

No need to rush, just keep walking. The world is round, you'll get there.

436 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:50:42pm

re: #430 Thanos

Here's a modern Tarsioidea for comparison

Thanks!

437 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:50:56pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Think I saw yesterday on some science show, that if the four billion years was contracted into 24 hours...human ascendancy is about 10 seconds. But that was not including Uncle Fred, I am sure.

I had a teacher explain life to us like a film- that if the life of the Earth was a traditional length film around two hours that our lives (we, the students) would be about 4 frames of the film. Interestingly enough- it was my civics teacher.

438 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:51:27pm

Evolution has it's fits and starts....

An apparent stop.

Dad Calls 911 After Son Refuses To Clean Room

The 63-year-old father said his 29-year-old son became upset when he was told to clean his room.

The son?

Andrew C.M. Mizsak,

Democratic City Leader/Director of Political Operations at Bedford/Walton Hills Democratic Party
439 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:51:30pm

re: #432 Slumbering Behemoth

On each hand? Certain arboreal lizards do, if I recall correctly.

Thanks. The thought occured. I had no idea at all.

440 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:51:47pm

re: #430 Thanos

Here's a modern Tarsioidea for comparison

James Carville again.

441 Salamantis  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:51:51pm

re: #268 johnnyreb

Yep just like the peer review and consensus on the hockey stick by Mr. Mann for global warming. Peer reviewed by about 25 scientists and still considered one of the biggest hoaxes of the global warming movement.

I cringe when people say the words "peer reviewed" and "consensus" in regards to science, they have been truly corrupted.

Attempting to compare AGW, which has only been studied for a couple of decades, and which is already being challenged by solar cycles, to evolution, which, for 150 years, has been supported by ALL the empirical evidence and contradicted by NONE of it, is quite illegitimate.

442 opnion  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:52:05pm

re: #429 Sharmuta

For me, it makes life that much more precious and amazing that we've accomplished so much in so short a time.

I don't remember who said it, but I have never forgotten it , "the advances of the 20th Century exceed the sum total of all previous advances."

443 pingjockey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:52:29pm

re: #437 Sharmuta

I love those comparisons. We haven't been around for but a couple of seconds in the geologic history of this rock.

444 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:52:43pm

re: #434 Lee Coller

Aftershock!

Felt it too.....

445 calcajun  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:53:06pm

re: #376 debutaunt

What would chairs look like?

446 HelloDare  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:53:09pm

re: #434 Lee Coller

Aftershock!

[Link: quake.usgs.gov...]

447 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:53:23pm

re: #444 LGoPs
So Cal again?

448 Lee Coller  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:53:28pm

re: #444 LGoPs

Felt it too.....

preliminary 4.1: [Link: quake.wr.usgs.gov...]

449 pingjockey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:53:30pm

re: #444 LGoPs
Y'all in Socal?

450 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:53:33pm

re: #444 LGoPs

Felt it too.....

I nodded outa my chair...sorry

451 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:53:44pm

Just had another earthquake here in LA...

452 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:54:14pm

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

Just fine, thanks. Still not doing it.

453 Lee Coller  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:54:19pm

re: #449 pingjockey

Y'all in Socal?

Yep, 24th floor just south of LAX. Nice Ride.

454 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:54:53pm

re: #449 pingjockey

Y'all in Socal?

Yeah. LA

455 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:55:19pm

STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

456 pingjockey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:55:26pm

re: #451 Charles
It's those Paulinas we've upset. They're all jumping up and down, holding their breath until we Luap Nor seriously!

457 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:55:42pm
458 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:55:43pm

re: #452 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just fine, thanks. Still not doing it.

Well, i don't know what to say, have you tried mastrubation... wait, we were talking about the other habit.

459 solomonpanting  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:55:55pm

re: #451 Charles

Just had another earthquake here in LA...

That was California going more in the financial hole after the demise of today's Propositions.

460 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:56:01pm

re: #447 reloadingisnotahobby

So Cal again?

yes. Felt about as strong as the one the other night. Only good thing was that it was short.......

461 pingjockey  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:56:04pm

re: #456 pingjockey
pimf=take

462 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:56:07pm

re: #439 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Oooh, ooh... Koala's also have two thumbs on each hand. Still can't recall the type of lizard that does, though.

463 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:56:18pm

re: #436 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Keep in mind that the IDA find is weird, it appears that it's Adapoidea, but there's things different too :

“The absence of a toilet claw and a toothcomb demonstrates that Darwinius masillae is not simply a fossil lemur, but part of a larger group of primates, the Adapoidea, representative of early haplorrhine diversification,” the researchers wrote in their paper.

Adapoidea, or the adapoids, are an early group of primates that the scientists believe later gave rise to the haplorrhines, though this is disputed by other experts in the field. They note that the animal “could represent a stem group from which later anthropoid primates evolved, but we are not advocating that here, nor do we consider either Darwinius or adapoids to be anthropoids.”

464 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:56:18pm

small quakes are a good thing as I understand it...release the tension and all that

465 HelloDare  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:56:43pm
466 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:56:54pm

re: #451 Charles

God punishing you for this article...

////////////

467 Salamantis  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:57:35pm

re: #317 johnnyreb

Well I was addressing what I thought was your main point in your post. As it was in all CAPS I thought that was what your were addressing:

They have been studying this one fossil for over two years. It would not even get to this point of publication without peer review, INCLUDING peer review from scientist that believe in creationism.

If that was not your main point, why did you put it in all caps? The Piltdown man was about the science also. It took over 40 years for that to come out.

This ain't a few scraps of bone dug out of soil, it's a 95% complete skeleton embedded in a sedimentary matrix. And its provenance is thoroughly known, from its discoverer onwards.

468 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:57:37pm

re: #435 opnion

No need to rush, just keep walking. The world is round, you'll get there.

"Everywhere is walking distance, if you have the time."
-Steven Wright

469 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:57:43pm

re: #455 jcm

STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

This one's Andreas' fault.

470 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:57:43pm

re: #466 Thanos

God punishing you for this article...

////////////

LOL, there's not enough dings... hmmmm, never mind, I didn't say that... (funny, ground shook).

471 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:57:52pm

Crazy Glenn Beck at it again....
“They are coming for you… You’re on the list. Everybody’s on the list.”
Link goes to Dkos TV.

472 jcm  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:58:13pm

re: #466 Thanos

God punishing you for this article...

////////////

Lightning, hell fire and brimstone too much to effort?

///

473 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:58:55pm

re: #467 Salamantis

This ain't a few scraps of bone dug out of soil, it's a 95% complete skeleton embedded in a sedimentary matrix. And its provenance is thoroughly known, from its discoverer onwards.

He's never addressed what I was saying about the fossil itself. He keeps tap dancing around it. The fossil is not a fake.

474 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:59:25pm
475 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:59:43pm

re: #470 Walter L. Newton

LOL, there's not enough dings... hmmmm, never mind, I didn't say that... (funny, ground shook).

Hey Walter..I was just leaving work when I got your email..sorry about the short reply..I wasn't being rude..I'll talk to you soon

476 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 3:59:56pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

Crazy Glenn Beck at it again....
“They are coming for you… You’re on the list. Everybody’s on the list.”
Link goes to Dkos TV.

Daily Kos TV?
That gives a whole new meaning to Idiot box.

477 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:00:15pm

re: #474 buzzsawmonkey

The problem with this fossil being peer reviewed is that there aren't a lot of 47-million-year-old peers around to do it.

Heh.

They could ask helen Thomas to look at it.

478 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:00:21pm
479 solomonpanting  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:01pm

re: #473 Walter L. Newton

He's never addressed what I was saying about the fossil itself. He keeps tap dancing around it. The fossil is not a fake.

Perhaps he's some kind of fossil fool.

480 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:06pm
481 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:22pm

re: #478 Iron Fist
Court Jester is taken....BIDEN remember!

482 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:24pm

re: #477 LGoPs

They could ask helen Thomas to look at it.

I guess that couldnt hurt, its already turned to stone.

483 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:29pm

Huge pet peeve of mine has reared it's ugly head again.
Long story short, a couple years ago the wife and I went to Arizona for a wedding/sightseeing, etc. Anyway, the first thing I wanted to do was go check out a cliff dwelling that had survived pretty much intact for a millennia. Got there, went through the little museum, checked out the base of the cliff, the stream, etc. I was looking for info. on how to actually see the dwelling when I talked to a Ranger. She told me that the dwelling itself has been "sealed to intruders" since the 80's. I was pissed. Go back inside and sure enough, there are dozens of pics from the annual "conferences" that are allowed up there. All attendees were state employees, bigwigs, "preservationists", etc. They essentially "preserve" the site so that they're the only ones with access.
Today, I'm reading the brand new Nat Geo. and there's a great article on caves in the Southeast. The "heroine" of the story is some broad named Bobo. Her thing is to go into previously unexplored caves and, get this, BUILD STEEL GATES TO KEEP OTHER PEOPLE OUT.
Nat.Geo. obviously thinks this is the best thing since sliced bread and hail her for her "preservation" of the caves. How fucking narcissistic and just plain spiteful does one have to be to determine that once they've seen something all history must stop? Oh, Bobo is the one who keeps the keys to the gates, of course. The best part of the article was the fact that the largest gate she ever built got wiped out by a flash flood.
Rant over, letter to Nat. Geo. just begun.

484 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:37pm

re: #472 jcm

Lightning, hell fire and brimstone too much to effort?

///

God Shuffled His Feet

485 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:48pm

re: #480 buzzsawmonkey

Couldn't do it any harm. It's already turned to stone.

DOH, beat me to it. ;)

486 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:54pm

re: #457 Iron Fist

But that shows that peer review works. That it might have flaws doesn't invalidate that in time, the truth was discovered by following the process.

487 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:55pm

re: #457 Iron Fist

Michael Bellesiles' book was NOT peer reviewed before publication -- it was published by a commercial publisher, not an academic or university press, and was not subjected to peer review. On the contrary, it was a later peer review that exposed the errors in his research.

So your example actually shows exactly the opposite of what you think it shows. The process of peer review worked in that case.

488 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:01:58pm

re: #482 DEZes

I guess that couldnt hurt, its already turned to stone.

Are you buzz?

489 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:02:08pm

re: #467 Salamantis

This ain't a few scraps of bone dug out of soil, it's a 95% complete skeleton embedded in a sedimentary matrix. And its provenance is thoroughly known, from its discoverer onwards.

Although on the provenance part, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some folks who will jump all over the fact that this came from a collection, and wasn't in the control of scientists from the "in situ" phase onward.

I know of artifacts in the middle east, with important inscriptions on them, which will NEVER be studied by archeologist because the items came from collections.

I suspect that this will be an issue for some people at some point, the whole chain of evidence stuff. I've seen it happen many times before.

490 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:03:18pm

The problem with Mann's hockey stick is that he used proxies (tree rings via dendranology) to create a relatively smoothed, long term climactic history and then grafted on contemporary temperature records which produced the inflection point.

What Mann has failed to do is go back and continue the climate record into modern times using the same data source (the tree rings) to show the same inflection point.

Mann is a true believer and, if you follow his own comment streams that he posts on blogs that argue with him, he lacks any sense of uncertainty in the firmness of his conclusions and is quick to make threats of legal action for defamation against on-line critics.

That doesn't prove or disprove anything but it should get people to be more skeptical of his work. There are records (both written and geological) that contradict the relative constancy of the past that Mann's proxies describe. The little ice age poses a problem, but is often dismissed as a local European event which blunts its impact on a global record.

Here is an article that discusses some weaknesses in Mann's proxies that is fairly level headed. [Link: www.newscientist.com...]

As I have learned, attacking Mann has no impact on the debate anymore anyway. I am told that even Al Gore has pulled Mann's hockey stick from his presentations.

Mann provided political shock value that gave juice to the catastrophists. As a luke warmer myself the hyperbolic catastrophists are about as helpful to understanding what is going on as are those who claim that changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere has no impact on how it behaves.

491 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:03:26pm

re: #488 LGoPs

Are you buzz?

Just his sock puppet. ;)

492 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:03:30pm

re: #462 Slumbering Behemoth

Oooh, ooh... Koala's also have two thumbs on each hand. Still can't recall the type of lizard that does, though.

I don't think koalas do. Check out the photos on samthekoala.com.au

493 debutaunt  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:03:30pm

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

How's the smoking doing? Honest, hanging in there?

Wow - FBV is really into the vegetables.

494 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:04:18pm

Allah Pundit declares this a "good speech".....
Steele vows to take Obama 'head-on'

“The Republican comeback has begun. It is underway, and it is not in Washington,” he said.

In traveling the country, Steele said he has seen a stronger party than the one portrayed in Washington. He credited last month’s anti-tax “Tea Party” protests with providing a boost to the party’s grassroots.

“This change comes in atea bag,” Steele declared.

In addition to cheering the grassroots Tea Party movement, Steele urged the party to find fresh ideas and new strategies.


Not good.

495 HelloDare  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:04:34pm

re: #482 DEZes

Eighteen seconds off. Maybe Charles should institute half dings.

496 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:05:06pm

re: #483 Lincolntf

go to Mesa Verde...all others pale in comparison

497 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:06:14pm

re: #495 HelloDare

Eighteen seconds off. Maybe Charles should institute half dings.

Maybe I should take a typing class. ;)

498 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:06:19pm

re: #483 Lincolntf

up-ding!

There are a lot of sanctimonious "environmentalists" in the Southwest.

499 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:07:09pm

re: #496 albusteve

go to Mesa Verde...all others pale in comparison

Can only agree with that. Lots of it is closed off; lots of it is open, but extremely difficult to get to. Lots of it is readily accessible and wide open for perusal. An excellent balance between preservation and presentation.

500 debutaunt  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:07:18pm

re: #445 calcajun

What would chairs look like?

The ergonomic amoeba butt shaped one would be the best seller.

501 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:07:39pm

re: #483 Lincolntf

Huge pet peeve of mine has reared it's ugly head again.
Long story short, a couple years ago the wife and I went to Arizona for a wedding/sightseeing, etc. Anyway, the first thing I wanted to do was go check out a cliff dwelling that had survived pretty much intact for a millennia. Got there, went through the little museum, checked out the base of the cliff, the stream, etc. I was looking for info. on how to actually see the dwelling when I talked to a Ranger. She told me that the dwelling itself has been "sealed to intruders" since the 80's. I was pissed. Go back inside and sure enough, there are dozens of pics from the annual "conferences" that are allowed up there. All attendees were state employees, bigwigs, "preservationists", etc. They essentially "preserve" the site so that they're the only ones with access.
Today, I'm reading the brand new Nat Geo. and there's a great article on caves in the Southeast. The "heroine" of the story is some broad named Bobo. Her thing is to go into previously unexplored caves and, get this, BUILD STEEL GATES TO KEEP OTHER PEOPLE OUT.
Nat.Geo. obviously thinks this is the best thing since sliced bread and hail her for her "preservation" of the caves. How fucking narcissistic and just plain spiteful does one have to be to determine that once they've seen something all history must stop? Oh, Bobo is the one who keeps the keys to the gates, of course. The best part of the article was the fact that the largest gate she ever built got wiped out by a flash flood.
Rant over, letter to Nat. Geo. just begun.

There is a major problem with sites and looting. And once items start being removed from sites, without proper study "in situ," the science is destroyed for ever.

It's a catch 22, but, I don't think you fully understand the scale of the problem. And over the last 15 years, the internet has prompted illegal artifact selling to increase hundreds and hundreds fold.

Just look at Ebay on any given day.

So, this problem is not as simple, nor as solvable as you may think. It has been a problem for ages. And, I am an artifact collector (smaller scale since my financial life went in the toilet 5 years ago). But I am just as concerned with illegal removable of artifacts as the scientist are.

So, I know what I am talking about. I mostly agree with the way scientist protect sites from the general public. There are plenty of public places to satisfy the masses.

502 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:07:54pm

re: #494 Killgore Trout

depends on how you look at it...I for one believe BO must be stopped...we'll see how it plays out when the GOP regains power and Paulians are responsible for crackpot legislation...that is the only thing that matters

503 solomonpanting  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:08:21pm

re: #495 HelloDare

Eighteen seconds off. Maybe Charles should institute half dings.

The comment was rather witty, but I wouldn't allocate a half wit.

504 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:08:34pm

re: #492 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I don't think koalas do. Check out the photos on samthekoala.com.au

Fucking San Diego Zoo lied to me! Again! And that bastard still owes me rent money!
/////

505 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:08:36pm

re: #500 debutaunt

The ergonomic amoeba butt shaped one would be the best seller.

And I can find a single cell price anywhere.

506 HelloDare  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:08:43pm

re: #497 DEZes

Maybe I should take a typing class. ;)

You owe me half a ding.

507 mph  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:08:45pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

And for those who didn't hear this earlier, Rush Limbaugh, today on his show, in a 4 sentence comment, said that this was bullshit and evolution does not disprove creation. The scientist has spoken, to millions of listeners, many who will swallow his whole take on this.

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

RUSH: Drudge had as a lead item up there this morning on his page a story from the UK, Sky News: "Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution." It's all about how Darwin would be thrilled to be alive today. "Scientists have unveiled a 47-million-year-old fossilised skeleton of a monkey hailed as the missing link in human evolution." It's a one-foot, nine-inch-tall monkey, and it's a lemur monkey described as the eighth wonder of the world. "The search for a direct connection between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom has taken 200 years - but it was presented to the world today --" So I guess this is settled science. We now officially came from a monkey, 47 million years ago. Well, that's how it's being presented here. It's settled science. You know, this is all BS, as far as I'm concerned. Cross species evolution, I don't think anybody's ever proven that. They're going out of their way now to establish evolution as a mechanism for creation, which, of course, you can't do, but I'm more interested in some other missing link. And that is the missing link between our failing economy and prosperity.

How many thousands or millions of years will it be before somebody makes the connection to our failing economy and prosperity, Barack Obama? If we're looking for missing links, let's look for him, because right now he's getting no blame, no coverage whatsoever, as being instrumental in the drop in American prosperity, as the decline in all elements of the American economy. It is his economy. Nobody wants to connect it to him yet. It's not just Obama. It's Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid as well. It's one of these things; economy is going to go to hell in a handbasket further, and we wonder how long it will take for the missing link to that to be discovered outside of this program, the missing link there being Barack Obama.

508 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:08:48pm

re: #497 DEZes

Maybe I should take a typing class. ;)

it is scary that you and buzz came up with precisely the same answer.
Come to think of it.....if looking at Helen Thomas can turn you to stone, I'd like her to ask President Obama a question tomorrow........
/

509 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:08:54pm

re: #505 DEZes

And I can find a single cell price anywhere.

Cant. pimf.

510 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:09:00pm

re: #434 Lee Coller

Aftershock!

No. I think that was the door slam from the guy I just let go.

511 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:09:23pm

re: #498 pre-Boomer Marine brat

up-ding!

There are a lot of sanctimonious "environmentalists" in the Southwest.

But there are reasons, see my re: #501 Walter L. Newton

It's a balancing act, one which I support.

512 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:09:33pm

re: #493 debutaunt

Wow - FBV is really into the vegetables.

I am very proud of Veggie..He stops smoking..he eats right..And then.He starts playing hoops and running laps..
Kudo's...I loved reading that the first couple days he was puking..
Veggie! Take it easy..It's not 24 hour, one month or three month project..
Take your time..In no time your Nic will be:
Veggie stud...

513 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:09:57pm

re: #506 HelloDare

You owe me half a ding.

I give you 2, please divide by 4. ;)

514 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:10:06pm

re: #499 SixDegrees

Can only agree with that. Lots of it is closed off; lots of it is open, but extremely difficult to get to. Lots of it is readily accessible and wide open for perusal. An excellent balance between preservation and presentation.

the place is so gigantic you must choose two tours out of like three?....so many people there and the traffic became untenable...same with Zion, no more car traffic

515 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:10:26pm

You can't prove this is an ancestor of humans!

Where is it's birth certificate and the birth certificates and skeletons of all of it's descendants right down to modern humans!1!1

516 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:10:30pm

re: #496 albusteve

Just Googled it. Now that's the third reason I have to go to Colorado. Never been, but fate seems to be pushing me there. Maybe in the Fall.

Here's the place I went to in Arizona, where the plebes are not allowed to enter.
Montezuma Castle

517 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:10:47pm

re: #504 Slumbering Behemoth

Fucking San Diego Zoo lied to me! Again! And that bastard still owes me rent money!
/////

Well heck! I trust the SD Zoo. Two thumbs it is.

518 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:11:21pm

re: #502 albusteve

I have a hard time imagining that. Ron Paul himself is unelectable. It will take some grooming to get more electable candidates with Tea Party economics into place. Even then I doubt they could win an election. Maybe if the Dems make big enough of a mess but even then it would be a tough call. I think 8-12 years at best.

519 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:11:28pm
520 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:11:33pm

re: #490 karmic_inquisitor

"luke warmer" I like it, I'm stealing it. That's where I am at. We definitely have AGW problems sometime within the next couple of centuries (most likely in the latter half of this one,) but that doesn't we should bankrupt nations or pauperize people to overcome it yesterday.

521 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:12:13pm

re: #519 Iron Fist

Yeah, but it's Columbia.

522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:12:26pm

re: #512 HoosierHoops

*Curtsies, index finger under chin*

523 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:12:42pm

re: #453 Lee Coller

Yep, 24th floor just south of LAX. Nice Ride.

Rats! I'm in San Diego, we don't get them so much here.

524 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:12:52pm

re: #499 SixDegrees

Can only agree with that. Lots of it is closed off; lots of it is open, but extremely difficult to get to. Lots of it is readily accessible and wide open for perusal. An excellent balance between preservation and presentation.

Mesa Verde is right off a major highway (160) and is 8 miles on a two lane paved road to the park. Motel, large caferteria, many different exhibit centers. You must be thinking of Chaco Canyon. About 18 miles of wash board dirt road, and barely no services at the park except for the visitors center.

525 DEZes  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:13:12pm

Well I have to do something with my new found family.
Later Lizards.

526 martinsmithy  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:13:15pm

I see a pattern of extremists on both left and right who, when faced with the facts of hard scientific truth, take one of several paths:

1. Attack the motives of the messenger.
2. Grasp at bogus pseudo-scientific straws to counter the message.
3. Ignore the message (the "plug your ears and shout 'la la la, I can't hear you' response")

You see it when the creationists face the hard scientific facts exemplified by this fossil discovery.

You also see it when Jenny McCarthy faces the hard scientific facts about the benefits of vaccination and the dangers of non-vaccination.

It's easy to argue about what constitutes "the truth" when it comes to philosophy, theology, sociology, political "science", history, english literature, and other such subjects that involve concepts coming out of the human mind. It's a lot harder when, as with subjects such as biology, chemistry, physics, and mathematics, the arguer has to make arguments that account for known and observable facts. And with both the creationists and the anti-vaccinationists, we are watching intellectual bankruptcy on display, because they can't make their story conform to the facts.

527 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:13:42pm

re: #525 DEZes

Well I have to do something with my new found family.
Later Lizards.

Later DEZ.......

528 pingjockey  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:14:25pm

BBL

529 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:14:51pm

re: #517 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Well heck! I trust the SD Zoo.

Don't. It'll just come to you with some sob story about this or that, and next thing you know you'll end up bailing it out of a huge phone bill or something. Sure, it'll promise to pay you back, but you'll never see that money again.
/////

530 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:15:08pm

re: #511 Walter L. Newton

But there are reasons, see my re: #501 Walter L. Newton

It's a balancing act, one which I support.

Achaeology, yes. I agree with you.

And I'm in favor of protecting the environment. It's imperative.

I disagree with those who will blatantly lie in order to do so.

/Mt. Graham red squirrel

531 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:15:31pm

re: #516 Lincolntf

Just Googled it. Now that's the third reason I have to go to Colorado. Never been, but fate seems to be pushing me there. Maybe in the Fall.

Here's the place I went to in Arizona, where the plebes are not allowed to enter.
Montezuma Castle

been there..if you get to Cortez and Mesa Verde, I implore you to continue on up the valley to Telluride...some drop dead scenery and the town is a national treasure

532 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:15:56pm

re: #519 Iron Fist

I would have thought that Columbia University would have reviewed his work for at least basic soundness before it awarded him the Bankroft prize. If they didn't, then that is a pretty major failure on the part of Columbia University.

I don't disagree with that, but again, it's because the book was not peer reviewed before publication.

Either way, their review was insufficient. Michael Bellesilles lies were fairly easy to spot, once someone took the time to look away from his alluring thesis and examine the "data" that he used to support it.

That's right -- and the people who spotted the errors and falsehoods did so by the process of peer review.

533 callahan23  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:16:23pm

Eyes are a closin'. Minutes awake are dimin'. Gotta go to bed to get some sleep.
Ha, got you there!
Sorry {DEZes} 'twas not my day.

Lizards you be good.

534 Querent  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:16:34pm

re: #483 Lincolntf

i KNEW there was a reason why i let my subscription die...

535 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:16:45pm

re: #524 Walter L. Newton

Mesa Verde is right off a major highway (160) and is 8 miles on a two lane paved road to the park. Motel, large caferteria, many different exhibit centers. You must be thinking of Chaco Canyon. About 18 miles of wash board dirt road, and barely no services at the park except for the visitors center.

MV is a beast...when you get there you are utterly someplace

536 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:16:54pm

re: #514 albusteve

the place is so gigantic you must choose two tours out of like three?....so many people there and the traffic became untenable...same with Zion, no more car traffic

We were there in July a couple of summers ago, and had no problems with crowds or traffic. Maybe we got lucky. You're right about being limited to the tours you can take; it's a per-day limitation, though, so if you're there for a while you can do them all. And the backcountry offers even more ruins, if you're up to it. No water back there at all, though.

Also stayed at Zion, in the lodge. The banishment of cars is an excellent idea for that small park, and their shuttle service completely eliminates the need for them. I expect we'll see more parks adopting such a system in years to come. The roads at Yellowstone, for instance, never designed for today's large vehicles or the volume of traffic the park receives, are in a constant state of repair. Limiting traffic by providing a bus loop would greatly reduce maintenance costs, and the frequent "mammal jams" that occur as gawkers stop in the middle of the road to stare at wildlife.

Did the river hike while at Zion. Turned out to be the highlight of our whole trip.

537 debutaunt  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:17:08pm

re: #523 Russkilitlover

Rats! I'm in San Diego, we don't get them so much here.

In 1992 the Landers Quake was a pip.

538 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:17:48pm

re: #501 Walter L. Newton

You presume a lot.
I've been two feet away from artworks that are worth millions and millions of dollars. I've stood places that could never, ever be replicated if I damaged them. A sheet of plexiglas would be sufficient to preserve a smoke-stained fireplace from some errant cleaning zealot.
It's bureacracy and power-hunger that prevented me from seeing where these Native Americans lived, nothing more. The place was a freakin' wild tourist campground until the 1950's. My footprints would not have constituted theft or damage.

539 screaming_eagle  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:17:49pm

re: #515 Dar ul Harbarian

You can't prove this is an ancestor of humans!

Where is it's birth certificate and the birth certificates and skeletons of all of it's descendants right down to modern humans!1!1

A monkey ate it.

540 callahan23  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:17:57pm

re: #525 DEZes

Later {DEZes}

541 rightymouse  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:18:20pm

re: #426 Walter L. Newton

I think the comment had something to do with the way the fossil was laying in the matrix. Two of the digits appear to be slightly opposed to the other three, but it's just probably the positioning.

I know what pre-boomer meant. Was just trying to inject some humor. :)

542 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:18:47pm

re: #535 albusteve

MV is a beast...when you get there you are utterly someplace

Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon, in my mind, are the eight wonders of the world, right here in the US. If you have never been there, you have no idea of what I am talking about.

It will make you reexamine everything you ever thought about the ancient peoples of this land.

I cry when I enter the parks.

543 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:19:06pm
544 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:19:34pm

re: #538 Lincolntf

You presume a lot.
I've been two feet away from artworks that are worth millions and millions of dollars. I've stood places that could never, ever be replicated if I damaged them. A sheet of plexiglas would be sufficient to preserve a smoke-stained fireplace from some errant cleaning zealot.
It's bureacracy and power-hunger that prevented me from seeing where these Native Americans lived, nothing more. The place was a freakin' wild tourist campground until the 1950's. My footprints would not have constituted theft or damage.

Sorry, don't agree. There are experts in preservation and they do a good job in this country. Sorry it's not enough for you.

545 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:19:39pm

re: #536 SixDegrees

when I was a kid you simply went wherever you wanted...you really should get reservation for the bigger parks if you want to stay...it's the same everywhere

546 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:19:43pm

Out of here.

547 Summersong  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:20:02pm

That fossil looks like it's doing the "thriller" dance.

548 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:20:20pm

re: #496 albusteve

go to Mesa Verde...all others pale in comparison

I would love to check that out.. The closest I got was I played Golf course in Sedona, AZ..It's like a painting surrounding you.Stunning Like It's not real..like a CGI video..But it is so real and beautiful...

549 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:20:23pm

test

550 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:21:00pm

re: #541 rightymouse

I know what pre-boomer meant. Was just trying to inject some humor. :)

Naw. I've wondered, in idle moments past, if two-opposed-thumbs were physiologically/ergometrically practical. Thanos' original comment brought the idea back. It was idle curiousity.

551 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:21:26pm

re: #544 Walter L. Newton

Luckily for you, nobody but the approved classes will ever see those sites again.
So you're only preserving it for them. And they don't own it any more than I do.

552 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:22:00pm

re: #549 Slumbering Behemoth

Pass.

553 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:22:07pm

re: #542 Walter L. Newton

Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon, in my mind, are the eight wonders of the world, right here in the US. If you have never been there, you have no idea of what I am talking about.

It will make you reexamine everything you ever thought about the ancient peoples of this land.

I cry when I enter the parks.

I've been studying the history along the Rio Grande for a while...same thing and there are ruins EVERYWHERE....certainly not the caliber of MV but still...what an awsome story

554 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:22:50pm

re: #549 Slumbering Behemoth

*phew* Some how a link to something I've never even clicked on ended up in my blue nic.

Logging out, and then back in, seemed to set it right, though.

555 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:22:50pm
556 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:23:06pm

Jesse Ventura is making the rounds again on all the talk shows spreading his 9-11 truther crap again.

557 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:23:22pm

re: #548 HoosierHoops

Mesa Verde is an absolute must...take Walters word for it

558 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:24:24pm

re: #556 Killgore Trout

He's such an attention whore.

559 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:24:51pm

re: #520 Thanos

"luke warmer" I like it, I'm stealing it. That's where I am at. We definitely have AGW problems sometime within the next couple of centuries (most likely in the latter half of this one,) but that doesn't we should bankrupt nations or pauperize people to overcome it yesterday.

I have seen the term "luke warmer" on a variety of AGW sites (pro and con).

But if it implies a certain "nuetrality" or a sort of agnosticism I'd caveat people that it doesn't. We produce industrial gases that have no where to go but into the atmosphere, which is the very medium in which "climate occurs". There has to be an affect.

But the linearity of those in the catastrophist camp that like to proclaim "we have X years left" implies a moral certainty that simply doesn't exist unless one is exclusively relying on the outcomes predicted by the models. But the models themselves rely in part on assumptions that support the conclusion - they have to given the uncertainties and necessary smoothing of the data sets along with the attendant assumptions about what components of a very complex system do what.

That doesn't mean the predictions are wrong. My problem is with the moral certitude of the catastrophists and their need to bludgeon doubters and skeptics for having committed some sort of mind crime. That behavior in itself is probably what attracts many to the skeptic camp.

None of the hyperventilating on either side is helpful, IMO.

BTW - I was more certain in my skepticism in the past and have Lotlakehiker, freetoken and ludwig to thank for forcing me to be more skeptical of skepticism. Just the same, I am not as certain of many of the AGW claims as they are.

Statistics requires one to account for uncertainty and all of the data gathering required to feed climate models is subject to the same rules.

560 rightymouse  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:25:05pm

re: #550 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Naw. I've wondered, in idle moments past, if two-opposed-thumbs were physiologically/ergometrically practical. Thanos' original comment brought the idea back. It was idle curiousity.

They must have served some survival purpose? It's been a while (decades) since I studied this stuff. I just tried to pick up a glass with just my fingers. Awkward.

561 screaming_eagle  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:25:12pm

re: #556 Killgore Trout

Jesse Ventura is making the rounds again on all the talk shows spreading his 9-11 truther crap again.

I like his new hair-style.

562 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:25:50pm

Just got back from New Mexico, taking in the sights, as it were, with the Better Half and the Shareholders. Stunning stuff, all around.

Saddens me, in some ways, that people think the Almighty has to correspond in all details and in all respects with their own limited and narrow beliefs.

I respect the Almighty, and stand in awe of the NATURAL WORLD; the relationship between the two is too deep for my limited understanding, but I'll wager the truth is closer to what the scientists - the real ones, not the creationists, ID'ers, and other frauds - have to say than what the frauds masquerading as believers would have us think.

563 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:26:17pm

I'm sharing a grape "freeze-pop" with my dog. Is that wrong?

564 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:26:28pm

re: #549 Slumbering Behemoth

test

Shit. I didn't even study.....
/

565 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:26:36pm
566 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:26:52pm

re: #552 Killgore Trout

btw, in case you didn't see my comment about compassion at the end of the prior thread -- you have my respect regarding the next door neighbor.

*salute*

567 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:27:07pm

re: #563 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm sharing a grape "freeze-pop" with my dog. Is that wrong?

And why doesn't the dog have its own?

568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:27:11pm

re: #562 Guanxi88

I wish I could rite good.

569 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:27:29pm

re: #558 Sharmuta

Sean Hannity argued with him but it's still such a terrible idea to give him a platform especially now with what's going on with the GOP.
In related news there's a petition drive to get Judge Napolitano's show on the regular Fox cable Chanel. I suspect it's going to work.

570 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:27:44pm

re: #559 karmic_inquisitor

Yep, understood - the certainty bothers me as well. They could fund some contrary studies and models at the very least. I'd like to know when myself.

571 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:27:51pm

re: #562 Guanxi88

NM is a piece of work alright...even right here in ABQ...from the west mesa I can see seven different and separate mountain ranges

572 Bloodnok  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:27:53pm

re: #563 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm sharing a grape "freeze-pop" with my dog. Is that wrong?

I'm sure the dog won'tmind the germs.

// :P

573 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:28:19pm

re: #568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wish I could rite good.

But you do, FBV, you do. You speak more sound common sense than I could.

574 debutaunt  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:28:20pm

re: #568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wish I could rite good.

Once you stop smoking vegetables, all will be clearer.

575 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:28:42pm

re: #551 Lincolntf

Luckily for you, nobody but the approved classes will ever see those sites again.
So you're only preserving it for them. And they don't own it any more than I do.

You know the french caves? I would have no problem at all to seal them with access totally controlled.. I want hundreds of web cams inside so that generations can explore the caves from their PC.. Every couple Years the science channel can go inside for a live update..we need to protect our history..Not for us..Not for 20 years from now..But for thousands of years..
I'd hate to see those cave drawing disappear forever cause it became a tourist spot...
Hi Lincolntf! Not calling you out..I'm just feeling like Teddy R. Tonight..*wink*

576 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:29:02pm

Iowahawk

The Barack Obama Celebrity Roast

What a mensch this guy is. Total sweetheart. As soon as he was elected, he told me he would come to the negotiating table without preconditions. You know what 'preconditions' are? That's Persian for 'balls.' Barack, one look at the stars on the stage proves you still have a knack for community organizing. You've brought the entire evil community together, in the spirit of international dialog, to ask you one simple question: how does our ass taste?

577 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:30:24pm

re: #565 Iron Fist

That's the truth. I went there as a kid. And since this is a paleontology thread, let me recommend Dinosaur National Monument. It is quite good.

been there...that place is really cool...unreal what they have found there....I just dig going all over America looking at stuff and people and having fun...it's what I do

578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:31:10pm

I am going to a friends house to watch Idol. I think I'm the only guy who wants the fingernail guy to lose.

579 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:32:13pm

re: #524 Walter L. Newton

Mesa Verde is right off a major highway (160) and is 8 miles on a two lane paved road to the park. Motel, large caferteria, many different exhibit centers. You must be thinking of Chaco Canyon. About 18 miles of wash board dirt road, and barely no services at the park except for the visitors center.

I used to travel that area a lot on business but never once found the time to visit Chaco Canyon. I remain really curious, is it worth the visit? I was always attracted by the very remoteness of the area.

580 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:32:21pm

re: #578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am going to a friends house to watch Idol. I think I'm the only guy who wants the fingernail guy to lose.

you're deep in....

581 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:32:43pm

re: #524 Walter L. Newton

Mesa Verde is right off a major highway (160) and is 8 miles on a two lane paved road to the park. Motel, large caferteria, many different exhibit centers. You must be thinking of Chaco Canyon. About 18 miles of wash board dirt road, and barely no services at the park except for the visitors center.

Nope; Mesa Verde. The road takes you right past the main attractions, but the park itself is vast; I don't recall the exact count, but there are hundreds of distinct ruins within it's boundaries. There are three or four large sites easily accessible to the public, but there's lots more that requires some serious hiking to get to.

The developed areas are...developed. Something for everyone.

582 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:32:45pm

So who's the new American Idol, Chris or Adam?

583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:33:18pm

re: #582 unrealizedviewpoint

Adam's stuff all sounds alike to me.

584 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:33:57pm

re: #578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am going to a friends house to watch Idol. I think I'm the only guy who wants the fingernail guy to lose.

Then you don't want Chris to win, just Adam to lose? hmmm.

585 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:34:15pm

re: #579 The Shadow Do

I used to travel that area a lot on business but never once found the time to visit Chaco Canyon. I remain really curious, is it worth the visit? I was always attracted by the very remoteness of the area.

great place...get a tour down inside, otherwise you're restricted to the rim...Kit Carson was so blown away by the place he would not go down inside to chase the Navajo....he just was overwhelmed by it

586 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:34:19pm

re: #566 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thanks. I'm having an email exchange right now arranging to get her some help or at least have somebody stop by and check on her.

587 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:34:39pm

re: #583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Adam's stuff all sounds alike to me.

Good observation there. I agree. But, he is the better singer by far.

588 jorline  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:35:01pm

Jesse Ventura, what's the deal with Minnesota politics?
Someone is slipping a mickey into Lutheran pot-luck dinners?

589 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:35:21pm

re: #584 unrealizedviewpoint

Actually, I wanted Allison to win. Last two guys are the best one and the other guy. But...damn...

590 LGoPs  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:35:28pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

Thanks. I'm having an email exchange right now arranging to get her some help or at least have somebody stop by and check on her.

I agree with pbMB. See my #338.

591 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:35:42pm

re: #588 jorline

Jesse Ventura, what's the deal with Minnesota politics?
Someone is slipping a mickey into Lutheran pot-luck dinners?

I think it's the winters. They get frostbite on the brain.

592 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:35:48pm

re: #588 jorline


Someone is slipping a mickey into Lutheran pot-luck dinners?

Maybe the other way around?

593 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:36:11pm

re: #587 unrealizedviewpoint

Waaaaaaay by far.

594 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:36:12pm

re: #585 albusteve

great place...get a tour down inside, otherwise you're restricted to the rim...Kit Carson was so blown away by the place he would not go down inside to chase the Navajo....he just was overwhelmed by it

Crap, knew I was missing out...

595 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:36:22pm

re: #582 unrealizedviewpoint

So who's the new American Idol, Chris or Adam?

Will Adam be abel to raise cain on the eve of his victory?

/don't give a damn about American Idol - was strictly for the puns

596 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:36:37pm

FBV out!

597 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:36:38pm

re: #578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am going to a friends house to watch Idol. I think I'm the only guy who wants the fingernail guy to lose.

Veggie!
Adam has smoked every person on AI this year..He is a real talent..He reminds me of Freddie Mercury in his prime...
I have liked him for along time..That guy is going to sell records and be a star..
But to add insult to injury..Hours ago my Buddy emailed me to rub it in my face that he is sitting in the 12th row of the Elton John Concert tonight..And Would I please please TIVO AI tonight...smartass..

598 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:36:40pm

re: #589 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, I wanted Allison to win. Last two guys are the best one and the other guy. But...damn...

The public seems to mostly get it right.
/'cept for elections for prez of course.

599 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:36:45pm

re: #591 Sharmuta

I think it's the winters. They get frostbite on the brain.

When I lived in colder climes, the booze, consumed steadily and relentlessly as an anti-freeze, affected my judgment, and that of others around me. I moved to Texas, and things became much clearer to me.

600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:37:57pm

re: #597 HoosierHoops

Elton John called Adam, asked him not to "gay it up" so much.
/
NTTAWWT/

601 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:38:03pm

re: #545 albusteve

when I was a kid you simply went wherever you wanted...you really should get reservation for the bigger parks if you want to stay...it's the same everywhere

We've done several national park tours over the last few years. I always try to book around a year in advance if possible, especially if I want to stay right in the park itself.

Old Faithful Inn is nearly impossible to beat, despite it's crowds. It quiets right down in the evening, and the building absolutely screams "I am a masterpiece!" from every cubic inch of it's structure. Well worth the advance booking requirements.

602 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:38:36pm

I will say this, though: I HATE the freakin' desert - there's just too much nothing out there for my liking. Makes me nervous every time I go out there.

603 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:38:47pm

re: #600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Elton John called Adam, asked him not to "gay it up" so much.
/
NTTAWWT/

Billy Joel is the opening act....

604 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:38:48pm

Along with being one of the fastest and most expensive cars on the road today, the $350,000 Lamborghini Murcielago is also the king of the gas guzzlers. Its 640 horsepower engine sucks down a gallon of gasoline for every 8 miles it travels in the city and 13 on the highway for a nice round EPA combined rating of 10 mpg.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I guess the "NEW" GM isn't gonna be making any of these babies?

605 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:38:51pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

Thanks. I'm having an email exchange right now arranging to get her some help or at least have somebody stop by and check on her.

You're a good man Charlie Brown Killgore Trout.

606 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:38:58pm

re: #594 The Shadow Do

Crap, knew I was missing out...

yeah, you really gotta look at that stuff close...distances are so great out here and sights are spread out...it's hard till you get used to it...you really need to make it happen to visit a place as remote as Chaco Canyon etc

607 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:39:52pm

re: #604 Nevergiveup

Along with being one of the fastest and most expensive cars on the road today, the $350,000 Lamborghini Murcielago is also the king of the gas guzzlers. Its 640 horsepower engine sucks down a gallon of gasoline for every 8 miles it travels in the city and 13 on the highway for a nice round EPA combined rating of 10 mpg.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I guess the "NEW" GM isn't gonna be making any of these babies?

Sounds like Al Gore just found another car to buy

608 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:39:57pm

This is a very important poll, posted in spinoffs earlier. I'm weaving it into a post in the strategy series I'm writing. Everyone needs to know these numbers and make some projections based upon them. Especially those who think it's time to slay all "RINOs" Read the whole thing before you react.

[Link: themoderatevoice.com...]

609 debutaunt  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:40:04pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

Thanks. I'm having an email exchange right now arranging to get her some help or at least have somebody stop by and check on her.

Great news!

610 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:40:38pm

re: #603 HoosierHoops

No shit?! Wow! I'd go.

611 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:40:50pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

Thanks. I'm having an email exchange right now arranging to get her some help or at least have somebody stop by and check on her.

I will be thinking of a successful outcome.
Sounds like desperate circumstances for her.

Lizards have seen me rant about character (and I'm not perfect.)
Character is what we feel and do when it's not convenient.

*salute*

612 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:41:02pm

re: #601 SixDegrees

We've done several national park tours over the last few years. I always try to book around a year in advance if possible, especially if I want to stay right in the park itself.

Old Faithful Inn is nearly impossible to beat, despite it's crowds. It quiets right down in the evening, and the building absolutely screams "I am a masterpiece!" from every cubic inch of it's structure. Well worth the advance booking requirements.

right there was where they made their last stand against the fires...they were gonna save the Lodge one way or another...great story

613 J.S.  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:41:05pm

re: #591 Sharmuta

We woke up today (Edmonton) to snow on the ground (yes, it's still visible, hasn't melted)...

614 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:41:11pm

re: #604 Nevergiveup

Along with being one of the fastest and most expensive cars on the road today, the $350,000 Lamborghini Murcielago is also the king of the gas guzzlers. Its 640 horsepower engine sucks down a gallon of gasoline for every 8 miles it travels in the city and 13 on the highway for a nice round EPA combined rating of 10 mpg.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I guess the "NEW" GM isn't gonna be making any of these babies?

They'll be lucky to build a Corvette better than the ones they made in the mid-70s, if they can build them at all.

615 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:41:56pm

re: #602 Guanxi88

I will say this, though: I HATE the freakin' desert - there's just too much nothing out there for my liking. Makes me nervous every time I go out there.

That's where you and I differ. I love desert landscapes. I know it doesn't look like it, but many of them are teeming with life (just ask that poor tarantula that had to stare at Behemoth but all night long).

Sadly, I am a big wimp when it comes to heat. Beautiful, but physically unbearable for me.

616 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:42:45pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

Thanks. I'm having an email exchange right now arranging to get her some help or at least have somebody stop by and check on her.

There is a special blessing for those who help others; were I in charge, it would be a double portion for those who help the difficult.

617 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:43:11pm

re: #614 CyanSnowHawk

They'll be lucky to build a Corvette better than the ones they made in the mid-70s, if they can build them at all.

The Obama administration’s proposed mileage standards that will be announced today may kill more Americans at a faster rate than the Iraq War — his signature issue in the 2008 presidential campaign.

[Link: greenhellblog.wordpress.com...]

As discussed in my new book Green Hell, the only way for carmakers to meet these standard is to make smaller, lighter and deadlier cars.

618 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:43:15pm

re: #602 Guanxi88

I will say this, though: I HATE the freakin' desert - there's just too much nothing out there for my liking. Makes me nervous every time I go out there.

hahahaha!....booga booga!....take some water

619 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:43:28pm
620 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:43:36pm

re: #615 Slumbering Behemoth

just ask that poor tarantula that had to stare at Behemoth butt all night long

PIMF

621 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:44:33pm

re: #602 Guanxi88

I will say this, though: I HATE the freakin' desert - there's just too much nothing out there for my liking. Makes me nervous every time I go out there.

As someone who grew up and still lives in the Midwest - where it is flat and wet - the desert is a shockingly different landscape.

If you want another mind-bendingly different landscape, Arches National Park and the surrounding area is nearly beyond belief.

622 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:44:39pm

re: #606 albusteve

yeah, you really gotta look at that stuff close...distances are so great out here and sights are spread out...it's hard till you get used to it...you really need to make it happen to visit a place as remote as Chaco Canyon etc

I know, like I said I traveled there a lot. Hours between stops. I was too conscientious, too dollar driven - I should have sacrificed a stop or two on my sales tour to take it in.

623 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:44:47pm

re: #615 Slumbering Behemoth

That's where you and I differ. I love desert landscapes. I know it doesn't look like it, but many of them are teeming with life (just ask that poor tarantula that had to stare at Behemoth but all night long).

Sadly, I am a big wimp when it comes to heat. Beautiful, but physically unbearable for me.

When I pass through those areas, I'm always in fear. There's no place to hide for me, but plenty for poisonous critters of every description. And don't even start me in about the isolation - I like folk around me, lets me know it's a safe(ish) place. When I don't see people or signs of settlement, I know there had to be a reason, and I wonder what I'm doing there.

624 screaming_eagle  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:44:47pm

re: #619 Iron Fist

Snakes. Don't forget the snakes. There's lots of snakes in the desert...

Alot snakes in Washington DC too. Another place not to go to?

625 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:45:22pm

enjoying your sainthood KT?

626 Gearhead  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:45:59pm

The little red dots are incredibly well-preserved.

627 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:46:03pm

re: #617 Nevergiveup

The Obama administration’s proposed mileage standards that will be announced today may kill more Americans at a faster rate than the Iraq War — his signature issue in the 2008 presidential campaign.

[Link: greenhellblog.wordpress.com...]

As discussed in my new book Green Hell, the only way for carmakers to meet these standard is to make smaller, lighter and deadlier cars.

Funny you should mention that. I found the link this morning and read about it at lunch.

Your new book?
That you just bought or just wrote?
If you are the author of that, wow. Nice to meet you.

628 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:46:27pm

re: #618 albusteve

hahahaha!....booga booga!....take some water

Whaddaya want? I'm from back East. Even parts of Texas seem to me to be dangerously underpopulated. Have you seen The Hills Have Eyes? Well, I have, and I'm afraid it's shaped my perceptions perhaps more than it should have, but there it is. Agoraphobia combined with a steady diet of B Movies has warped me.

629 the1sgjohns  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:46:37pm

re: #526 martinsmithy

Hold on...am I missing some data here. Is the new monkey fossil the missing link? Cause it look like a ancestor to a monkey to me.

630 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:46:53pm

re: #619 Iron Fist

Snakes, lizards, birds, bugs, mammals, cacti, brush, they're all cool.

631 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:47:05pm

re: #627 CyanSnowHawk

Funny you should mention that. I found the link this morning and read about it at lunch.

Your new book?
That you just bought or just wrote?
If you are the author of that, wow. Nice to meet you.

Hey I put the link it.

632 debutaunt  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:47:30pm

re: #626 Gearhead

The little red dots are incredibly well-preserved.

Big honkin' measles - pre-vax era, looks like.

633 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:47:37pm

re: #575 HoosierHoops

Look, preservation is fine. Monopolies on cultural history are not. I don't expect the NPS to sit by while people destroy our heritage sites, but neither do I expect them to seal them off for all eternity. Why preserve something that nobody will ever experience, learn from or take inspiration from? Might as well fill the whole cave with concrete and put up a TV monitor telling what it used to look like.
The Gardner, The Peabody, The Smithsonian, hundereds of other institutions have managed to preserve things far more valuable and rare than a smoke stained ceiling, and I've seen them all. It would take all of a good shoulder push to shatter the case that holds the "original" Coelecanth at Harvard, yet they still manage to keep it right at the entrance with a sign asking people not to touch the glass. I don't mind common-sense precautions, but I hate the Gov't stealing heritage and knowledge in the name of "preservation".

634 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:48:06pm

re: #629 the1sgjohns

Hold on...am I missing some data here. Is the new monkey fossil the missing link? Cause it look like a ancestor to a monkey to me.

It is a common ancestor of monkeys and lemurs IIRC. It links the two branches.

635 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:48:11pm
636 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:48:21pm

re: #630 Slumbering Behemoth

Snakes, lizards, birds, bugs, mammals, cacti, brush, they're all cool.

Teddy bear Cholla and cactus wrens.

637 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:48:29pm

re: #623 Guanxi88

When I don't see people or signs of settlement, I know there had to be a reason, and I wonder what I'm doing there.

True, but the night sky is freaking amazing to look at under those conditions, and the sunrises are a sight to behold.

638 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:48:58pm

re: #628 Guanxi88

Whaddaya want? I'm from back East. Even parts of Texas seem to me to be dangerously underpopulated. Have you seen The Hills Have Eyes? Well, I have, and I'm afraid it's shaped my perceptions perhaps more than it should have, but there it is. Agoraphobia combined with a steady diet of B Movies has warped me.

'back east' is like an ant farm to me....I enjoy the solitude

639 Bloodnok  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:49:54pm

re: #637 Slumbering Behemoth

True, but the night sky is freaking amazing to look at under those conditions, and the sunrises are a sight to behold.

Damn it. Now I want to go out west.

640 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:50:08pm

re: #590 LGoPs

Thanks.

641 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:51:16pm

re: #625 albusteve

It probably wouldn't have been such a big deal but the reaction from last night turned it into a situation.

642 screaming_eagle  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:51:25pm

re: #635 Iron Fist

Hey, I like snakes. Don't go comparing Congress Critters to snakes.

:-)

Only good snake is a dead one. A sidewinder in the middle of the night will scare the shit right out of you.

643 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:51:30pm

re: #637 Slumbering Behemoth

True, but the night sky is freaking amazing to look at under those conditions, and the sunrises are a sight to behold.

sun rise over Sandia Peak just a few miles from me are absolutely mind boggling if there are a few clouds here and there

644 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:52:23pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

It probably wouldn't have been such a big deal but the reaction from last night turned it into a situation.

fortunately I missed it....I don't like a bad vibe from anybody

645 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:52:52pm

re: #612 albusteve

right there was where they made their last stand against the fires...they were gonna save the Lodge one way or another...great story

Yeah, heard it firsthand from some of the people there. They get the same volunteers coming back year after year, and lots of them were there, sweeping cinders off the roof.

Despite the crowds and the hype, I love Yellowstone. And it is so effing BIG - it doesn't take much at all to get well away from all the traffic and tourists. Hardly anyone hits the trails; a ten-minute walk and you are pretty much alone.

Custer State Park is another favorite. Great place to see wildlife, and an easy drive to Wind Cave, Jewel Cave, Mt. Rushmore, the Crazy Horse Monument, and the Badlands if you've got a little more time. We passed up Rushmore on a couple of previous trips, stopped this last time because the kids were with us, and enjoyed the hell out of it. I only wish they would open up the valley behind the main monument, where the unfinished repository is.

Damn it. Now I want to travel.

646 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:54:15pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

What's more important than our words are our actions. What you did was show that you have a good heart.

647 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:54:22pm

re: #631 Nevergiveup

Hey I put the link it.

That may be the one I clicked on. I just watch the links from time to time when too busy to read the threads.

648 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:54:35pm

re: #642 screaming_eagle

Only good snake is a dead one. A sidewinder in the middle of the night will scare the shit right out of you.

I am terrified of snakes..There have been hundreds of Lizards make fun of me here..But I don't care..I feel we should kill all snakes in the world and see what takes it's place..Maybe cute Cats..
/

649 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:54:48pm

re: #639 Bloodnok

I spent the night sitting in a Nevada desert drinking warm beer 'cuz my traveling companions (the one driving, anyway) wanted to pull off to the side of the road and get some sleep.

I couldn't sleep, so I walked several hundred yards out and sat there drinking and looking at the stars. So many to see when there is no modern light source around to much it up.

It wasn't 'till just after sunrise that I realized I was surrounded by tarantula burrows, and sure enough I spent the night sitting right on top of one. Probably scared the poor little critter half to death, staring at my arse all night.

650 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:55:28pm

re: #647 CyanSnowHawk

That may be the one I clicked on. I just watch the links from time to time when too busy to read the threads.

Does his theory sound rational to you? Makes sense to me.

651 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:55:41pm

Oh- and don't worry Killgore. I won't tell on you. ;)

652 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:56:11pm

re: #645 SixDegrees

I very nearly moved to Rapid City before coming here to Albuquerque...I made an excellent choice....but the Black Hills are extraordinary...like a zoo...it's all good, all of it....I burn miles to and fro...don't have alot of money but I come and go as I please and that to me is priceless

653 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:57:25pm

re: #588 jorline

Jesse Ventura, what's the deal with Minnesota politics?

And of course, the current governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty is ... you guessed it ... a creationist.

654 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:57:35pm

Yeah- that's right. Killgore is the spawn of the devil, and the epitome of everything that's wrong with America!

///

655 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:58:06pm

re: #646 Sharmuta

Rumors of me having a heart (good or bad) are greatly exaggerated.

656 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:58:21pm

re: #654 Sharmuta

Yeah- that's right. Killgore is the spawn of the devil, and the epitome of everything that's wrong with America!

///

Maybe he should try out for American Idol..
/

657 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:58:31pm

re: #642 screaming_eagle

Only good snake is a dead one. A sidewinder in the middle of the night will scare the shit right out of you.

I disagree. I used to know a 9 foot Burmese python that was an absolute sweetheart.

658 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:58:32pm

re: #649 Slumbering Behemoth

I spent the night sitting in a Nevada desert drinking warm beer 'cuz my traveling companions (the one driving, anyway) wanted to pull off to the side of the road and get some sleep.

I couldn't sleep, so I walked several hundred yards out and sat there drinking and looking at the stars. So many to see when there is no modern light source around to much it up.

It wasn't 'till just after sunrise that I realized I was surrounded by tarantula burrows, and sure enough I spent the night sitting right on top of one. Probably scared the poor little critter half to death, staring at my arse all night.

they are harmless and even friendly if you can believe it...there is one living just off my patio not 25 feet from where I'm sitting...they are very shy

659 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:59:00pm

re: #652 albusteve

I very nearly moved to Rapid City before coming here to Albuquerque...I made an excellent choice....but the Black Hills are extraordinary...like a zoo...it's all good, all of it....I burn miles to and fro...don't have alot of money but I come and go as I please and that to me is priceless

Sounds nice. We've been clattering around the country with the kids for the last five or six years, but this year we have to sit tight and get some work done around the homestead before it collapses around us. Plus, Number One Son is in college now and unable to join us, as he's developed a keen interest in making money over the summer. So we're taking a year to regroup. Not sure where we'll wind up next. Glacier NP has been beckoning for some time...

660 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:59:05pm

re: #651 Sharmuta

Oh- and don't worry Killgore. I won't tell on you. ;)

Should we have a chorus of "Killgore Stinks!", just so he'll feel appreciated?

/ ............... :D ! ............. teasing, Killgore

661 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 4:59:16pm

re: #655 Killgore Trout

Rumors of me having a heart (good or bad) are greatly exaggerated.

I know....

662 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:00:02pm

re: #653 Charles

And of course, the current governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty is ... you guessed it ... a creationist.

I keep hearing his name as being an up and coming front runner for the GOP. *BLECH*

663 SixDegrees  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:00:22pm

I'm out. Gotta rest up for what is shaping up to be a horrible day tomorrow.

664 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:00:53pm

re: #655 Killgore Trout

Rumors of me having a heart (good or bad) are greatly exaggerated.

You sold your golden heart on the scrap market, eh? ;)

665 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:00:54pm

re: #659 SixDegrees

my ex and I were gone half the time for 15 years....we still are only not together...I have wanderlust and there is no cure

666 Randall Gross  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:02:05pm

bummer, I was hoping my Kindle was going to get here today.... rats.

667 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:02:17pm

re: #662 FurryOldGuyJeans

I keep hearing his name as being an up and coming front runner for the GOP. *BLECH*

Anybody's name you hear now will be history in by the next Presidential Election cycle.

668 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:02:21pm

re: #653 Charles

And of course, the current governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty is ... you guessed it ... a creationist.

In the past few month I've come to discover that when any of these politicians announce their creationist tendencies it comes with other distasteful ideological baggage. Thus their creationism announces a stance on other issues especially on the social spectrum. It does not end there.

669 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:02:30pm

re: #658 albusteve

Oh, I believe it, I've handled a few of them. I actually think they're kinda cute. Most folks are afraid they'll bite, but they just flick their hairs at ya if they're attacking. Might make you itch a little, but that's about it.

670 Bloodnok  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:04:00pm

re: #669 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, I believe it, I've handled a few of them. I actually think they're kinda cute. Most folks are afraid they'll bite, but they just flick their hairs at ya if they're attacking. Might make you itch a little, but that's about it.

Oh what a different song you'd sing if that little bastard had bitten you in the ass in the desert. ;)

671 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:04:13pm

I am watching the Yankee game and a bunch of the Yankee relievers in the Bullpen have cut all their hair off for the bald look. It looks like a penis convention in the Bullpen.

672 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:04:36pm

re: #662 FurryOldGuyJeans

I keep hearing his name as being an up and coming front runner for the GOP. *BLECH*

I don't think it will happen. The bridge collapse sealed his fate. The national msm will have a field day with it.

673 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:04:39pm

re: #650 Nevergiveup

Does his theory sound rational to you? Makes sense to me.

At first glance, it appears to make a lot of sense. Don't know what devils lie in the details though.

674 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:05:11pm

re: #673 CyanSnowHawk

At first glance, it appears to make a lot of sense. Don't know what devils lie in the details though.

I thought the devil is in the White House?

675 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:05:20pm

re: #667 Nevergiveup

Anybody's name you hear now will be history in by the next Presidential Election cycle.

Obama made quite a splash at the 2004 convention, and look where that led.

I am not going to count anyone down and out until I see the dead body.

676 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:05:29pm

Here's a question, an ethical one, related to the thread and the overall trend we've noted with so much distress of late:

Is it wring to offer out one's services, for hire, of course, to these whack-jobs (ID'ers, YEC'ers, etc.) and writing in such a way as to make their case as weak as it can possibly be?

I ask because:

1) I needs the money; and

2) A lot of what these guys put out there is so palpably absurd as to make me think that they must have writers doing just this thing.

Any thoughts?

677 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:06:02pm
678 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:06:50pm

re: #675 FurryOldGuyJeans

Obama made quite a splash at the 2004 convention, and look where that led.

I am not going to count anyone down and out until I see the dead body.

Yeah, but nobody, I mean nobody thought he would even run in 08. But I like the body theory.

679 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:07:15pm

re: #672 Sharmuta

I don't think it will happen. The bridge collapse sealed his fate. The national msm will have a field day with it.

It is the FMSM where I keep hearing the name being mentioned as someone to watch out for, so I do take the name dropping with a ton of salt.

680 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:07:15pm

re: #676 Guanxi88

Here's a question, an ethical one, related to the thread and the overall trend we've noted with so much distress of late:

Is it wring to offer out one's services, for hire, of course, to these whack-jobs (ID'ers, YEC'ers, etc.) and writing in such a way as to make their case as weak as it can possibly be?

I ask because:

1) I needs the money; and

2) A lot of what these guys put out there is so palpably absurd as to make me think that they must have writers doing just this thing.

Any thoughts?

Go for it.

681 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:07:21pm

re: #675 FurryOldGuyJeans

Obama made quite a splash at the 2004 convention, and look where that led.

I am not going to count anyone down and out until I see the dead body.

agreed...I no longer trust the electorate, nothing would surprise me after witnessing the rise of BO

682 Racer X  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:08:41pm

re: #676 Guanxi88

Is it wrong to offer out one's services, for hire, of course, to these whack-jobs (ID'ers, YEC'ers, etc.) and writing in such a way as to make their case as weak as it can possibly be?

Yes.

683 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:09:32pm

re: #677 buzzsawmonkey

I worked in the archives and special collections of a university for some years, and I can tell you that even under perfect conditions, every time an artifact is so much as looked at, it's damaged. We looked back at what previous curators did and shook our heads in dismay and disbelief; had they known then what we did, they wouldn't have done what they did. As the science and technology advance, we find new and better ways to preserve the artifacts, so the best thing to do is to protect these treasures as best as possible and keep people away from them until we can find better ways to deal with them.

The cautionary principle applies to irreplaceable things; better to protect them, even at the cost of restricting access, than to lose them forever to things we just didn't know about at the time.

684 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:10:49pm

re: #682 Racer X

Yes.

Is it wrong because I take from them with a view to harming the cause they support, or wrong because it offers support? The former, I don't mind, the latter, has me concerned.

685 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:10:55pm

re: #679 FurryOldGuyJeans

It is the FMSM where I keep hearing the name being mentioned as someone to watch out for, so I do take the name dropping with a ton of salt.

Of course they're dropping his name! They're also dropping Jindal's name. The fix is in- they'd love us a pick a loser. Of course- there might not be much choice anyways.

686 HelloDare  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:11:11pm

If you're looking for evidence that religion is in your head, you need look no further than Jeff Schimmel. The 49-year-old Los Angeles writer was raised in a Conservative Jewish home. But he never bought into God — until after he was touched by a being outside of himself.

"Yeah," Schimmel says, "I was touched by a surgeon."

About a decade ago, Schimmel had a benign tumor removed from his left temporal lobe. The surgery was a snap. But soon after that — unknown to him — he began to suffer mini-seizures. He'd hear conversations in his head. Sometimes the people around him would look slightly unreal, as if they were animated.

Then came the visions. He remembers twice, lying in bed, he looked up at the ceiling and saw a swirl of blue and gold and green colors that gradually settled into a shape. He couldn't figure out what it was.

"And then, like a flash, it dawned on me: 'This is the Virgin Mary!' " he says. "And you know, it's funny. I laughed about it, because why would the Virgin Mary appear to me, a Jewish guy, lying in bed looking at the ceiling? She could do much better."

Schimmel became fascinated with spirituality. He became more compassionate, less ambitious. And he wondered: Could his new outlook have to do with his brain? The next visit to his neurologist, he asked to see his most recent MRI.

"My left temporal lobe looked completely different from the way it did before the surgery," he says.

Gradually, it had become smaller, a different shape, covered with scar tissue. Those changes had sparked electrical firings in his brain. Schimmel's doctor told him he had developed temporal lobe epilepsy — a disease that has fascinated doctors for centuries.

Did Paul Hear Jesus, Or Was It Hallucination?

Some 2,500 years ago, notes Orrin Devinsky, who directs the epilepsy center at New York University, Hippocrates wrote one of the very first texts we have on epilepsy — and he named it "On the Sacred Disease."

The disease was considered sacred because the ancients thought that sufferers were possessed by demons, or blessed with divine messages and visions. Devinsky says neurologists suspect some of the religious giants were epileptics themselves. Did Paul hear Jesus on the road to Damascus, or was he experiencing an auditory hallucination? What about Joseph Smith and the two angels? Muhammad? Joan of Arc? And what about Moses and that burning bush?

"Assuming for now a more rational scientific view, he was having a visual hallucination and he heard God's voice," Devinsky observes.

It could have been God; it could have been a seizure. But one thing Devinsky does believe is "whatever happened back there in Sinai, Moses' experience was mediated by his temporal lobe."

The temporal lobes run along the sides of the brain, and deep within them is something called the limbic system. This system handles not just sound, smell and some vision but also memory and emotion.

When people have a seizure in the temporal lobe, it's as if the normal emotions have an exclamation point after them, because so many nerve cells are firing in rhythm. People may hear snatches of music — drawn from their memory bank — and in rare cases, interpret it as music from heavenly spheres. They may see a glimpse of light and think it's an angel.

"These patients give us clues as to what parts of the human brain are involved when all of us have a numinous experience," says Jeffrey Saver, a neurologist at UCLA.

Saver says when people with no brain dysfunction have numinous, or spiritual, experiences, it's the same limbic system being activated — but with the volume turned down.

[ snip ]

'I'm A More Decent Human Being Because Of It'

687 HelloDare  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:11:15pm

'I'm A More Decent Human Being Because Of It'

Believers are certainly going to take issue with that. And so do many scientists. I put the question to New York University's Devinsky. Does the fact that we can track spiritual feelings in our temporal lobe mean that there's nothing spiritual going on?

"No," he says simply.

Think about a man and woman who are in love, Devinsky says. They look at each other, and in all likelihood, something fires in their temporal lobes.

"However, does that negate the presence of true love between them?" he asks. "Of course not. When you get to spirituality, as a scientist I think it really becomes extremely difficult to say anything other than, 'It's possible.' "

As for Schimmel, the fellow with temporal lobe epilepsy, he finds it hard to believe that his new faith and love for his fellow man come merely from an electrical impulse that's gone awry.

"But I'll tell you what the real bottom line is for me," says Schimmel, who has taken up Buddhism to harness his spiritual life. "I don't care where it comes from. I'm just a happier person, and I'm a more decent human being because of it."

688 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:11:35pm

re: #678 Nevergiveup

Yeah, but nobody, I mean nobody thought he would even run in 08. But I like the body theory.

Reagan was counted as being dead and buried in 1976 (mostly by the FMSM, but still) when he ran against Ford, and Hillary was for quite some time during the early part of the primary season already being courted as Madame President. Add in the vagaries of the electorate and saying anyone is toast before the fact is not sound judgment.

689 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:12:36pm

re: #629 the1sgjohns

Hold on...am I missing some data here. Is the new monkey fossil the missing link? Cause it look like a ancestor to a monkey to me.

You're right, it is! Ancestor to monkeys, apes and such I think. But hey, I could be wrong. Anyway, those guys are unlike you or me, who closely resemble God I'm told?

Sometimes I wonder if God more closely resembles people, chimps, or gorillas since for the the most part they look lots alike? What is up with that? Did God choose man to look like him? Why? Are the great apes, sans sapiens, just too darn hairy? Big deal. Does a shaved orangutan not resemble a thirteen year old human wishing for a future in the NBA? Why the heck is that? Just a random thought or three.

690 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:12:40pm
691 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:13:15pm

re: #688 FurryOldGuyJeans

There's a reason we're not hearing much about Romney.....

692 ShanghaiEd  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:13:17pm

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

It's beyond reason. This became news about 24 hours ago. I keep up with pending science news, and I didn't hear about this until yesterday, so I expect that Rush didn't have much more of a heads up then most of us.

Yet he can pronounce the whole thing as bullshit, in one fell swoop. (I love that term "one fell swoop").

Scary.

When my son was small, he misheard the phrase as "one foul soup." I've always liked the twist, especially for subjects that touch on the primordial. :)

693 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:14:29pm

re: #685 Sharmuta

Of course they're dropping his name! They're also dropping Jindal's name. The fix is in- they'd love us a pick a loser. Of course- there might not be much choice anyways.

Name dropping just makes me reread this "editorial" from the Stranger, one of Seattle's most far-left underground newspapers:

From the Feb 24 – Mar 1, 2000 issue
VOTE FOR BUSH
You, Too, Can Be Part of the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy

694 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:15:16pm

re: #690 buzzsawmonkey

I was with a Technion group in Spain in 1992; we were given special access to some of the Hebrew manuscripts in the library of the Escorial.

As a sometime calligrapher, it was an unbelievable thrill to be able to leaf through manuscripts over 500 years old and marvel at the drawings, the calligraphy, and the micrography. As someone with some knowledge of and concern for preservation, I was shuddering inwardly that they let us do this.

Every time I walked into the vault and emptied the dehumidifiers, I felt I was doing some small thing to save Mankind's heritage from the ravages of time. Then I'd step into the main collections area, and smell the mouldering paper, and despair that we couldn't do more.

695 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:15:34pm

re: #693 FurryOldGuyJeans

The media is the enemy.

696 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:15:56pm

re: #691 Sharmuta

There's a reason we're not hearing much about Romney.....

And why, pray tell, would that be? Hmmmm? ;)

697 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:16:39pm

re: #696 FurryOldGuyJeans

The don't want us considering a person with fiscal credibility. They might just *gasp* win.

698 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:16:54pm

re: #691 Sharmuta

There's a reason we're not hearing much about Romney.....

he's hunkered down watching people mow themselves down

699 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:16:59pm

re: #689 The Shadow Do

You're right, it is! Ancestor to monkeys, apes and such I think. But hey, I could be wrong. Anyway, those guys are unlike you or me, who closely resemble God I'm told?

Sometimes I wonder if God more closely resembles people, chimps, or gorillas since for the the most part they look lots alike? What is up with that? Did God choose man to look like him? Why? Are the great apes, sans sapiens, just too darn hairy? Big deal. Does a shaved orangutan not resemble a thirteen year old human wishing for a future in the NBA? Why the heck is that? Just a random thought or three.

Humans resemble the Divinity by virtue of our possessing a mind; there is, of course, no corporeality in the Divine.

700 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:17:19pm

re: #695 Sharmuta

The media is the enemy.

Uncle Walter and his ilk do have a lot to answer for.

701 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:17:38pm

re: #698 albusteve

And it's probably for the best. We have a mid-term to deal with first, and then we can start thinking of the WH.

702 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:17:55pm
703 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:18:03pm

re: #700 FurryOldGuyJeans

Uncle Walter and his ilk do have a lot to answer for.

never in three lifetimes...it's power is tremendous

704 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:18:16pm

re: #699 Guanxi88

Humans resemble the Divinity by virtue of our possessing a mind; there is, of course, no corporeality in the Divine.

We are like the Almighty to the extent we are reasonable, and unlike the Divine by virtue of our physical natures. We are a hybrid entity, an ape with a Divine spark.

705 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:18:49pm

re: #697 Sharmuta

The don't want us considering a person with fiscal credibility. They might just *gasp* win.

Add in a BBA and...whoo!

706 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:19:18pm

BBA support gets an automatic upding.

707 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:19:41pm

re: #701 Sharmuta

And it's probably for the best. We have a mid-term to deal with first, and then we can start thinking of the WH.

nothing short of a mid term Massacre will lift my spirits...I am becoming very cynical...and I don't like it much, it interferes with my natural optimism

708 Racer X  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:19:41pm

re: #684 Guanxi88

Is it wrong because I take from them with a view to harming the cause they support, or wrong because it offers support? The former, I don't mind, the latter, has me concerned.

Well, imho, it is wrong to accept payment for services while intentionally doing a poor job because you disagree with those paying for the service. My work ethic has always been 'if I'm getting paid, I'm doing my best'.

If it were me, I would simply avoid them altogether.

709 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:20:12pm
710 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:20:15pm

re: #700 FurryOldGuyJeans

Uncle Walter and his ilk do have a lot to answer for.

Well maybe the deaths of a few million Cambodians?

711 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:20:32pm

re: #704 Guanxi88

We are like the Almighty to the extent we are reasonable, and unlike the Divine by virtue of our physical natures. We are a hybrid entity, an ape with a Divine spark.

Monkey Boy. Nicknamed Sparky.

Better than insignificant dust I suppose.

712 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:20:33pm

re: #708 Racer X

You're right; I can tell because following your advice is no fun.

Damn!

713 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:20:34pm

Balanced Budget Amendment

714 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:21:05pm

re: #711 CyanSnowHawk

Monkey Boy. Nicknamed Sparky.

Better than insignificant dust I suppose.

Sparky the Monkey-Boy, that's me.

715 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:21:06pm

re: #713 Sharmuta

Balanced Budget Amendment

good GRIEF!....you said it aloud

716 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:21:16pm

re: #702 buzzsawmonkey

Fortunately, most paper from before about 1850 or so was made of cotton rags, and is good with reasonable care for five hundred years or so. It's the stuff made from wood pulp since then that tends to be full of acid and requires major preservation efforts. Anyone who has ever had one of those cheap paperbacks from the 1940s or 1950s knows what I mean; they crumble at a touch.

I cry every time I think of what the Arabs have done/are doing to the Temple Mount and below it.

717 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:21:19pm
718 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:21:55pm

re: #710 Nevergiveup

Well maybe the deaths of a few million Cambodians?

More than that, lots more. A few million Vietnamese can also be added to the ledger.

719 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:21:56pm

Better idea than auditing the Fed and the gold standard.

720 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:22:08pm

re: #708 Racer X

Stupid ethics!

721 acwgusa  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:22:12pm

re: #713 Sharmuta

Balanced Budget Amendment

What is this creature you speak of? We Californians have heard rumors of such a creature, but, nay, have never sighted one.

722 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:23:09pm

re: #717 buzzsawmonkey

Ah. The Pipedream.

Keeping thinking that and it will impossible.

723 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:23:13pm

re: #721 acwgusa

What is this creature you speak of? We Californians have heard rumors of such a creature, but, nay, have never sighted one.

it's in the fossile record...somewhere

724 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:23:19pm

re: #721 acwgusa

What is this creature you speak of? We Californians have heard rumors of such a creature, but, nay, have never sighted one.

Prop 13 was sweet...

725 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:23:39pm

WASHINGTON - The United States expects Israel to make concrete concessions to the Palestinians before U.S. President Barack Obama's visit to Cairo on June 4, an American official said during Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to Washington this week.

The cabinet is due to discuss the situation in the Gaza Strip this Sunday, and one concession the U.S. would like to see is for Israel to decide at this meeting to ease its restrictions on imports and exports of goods to Gaza. It also wants Israel to ease restrictions on movement in the West Bank.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

WHY?

726 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:24:14pm

re: #718 FurryOldGuyJeans

More than that, lots more. A few million Vietnamese can also be added to the ledger.

If you want to go back a ways, you can add about 10 million Chinese, starved, shot, and crushed when the Reds took power on the mainland. MSM played its part, eve, then, as did State.

727 albusteve  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:25:13pm

fear is the great motivator in DC...fear of losing your power or your job...fear is a beast that will bend all politicians to your will...they need to fear the electorate...it can happen

728 carefulnow  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:25:56pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

Have you checked with your county assessor?

729 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:26:42pm

re: #726 Guanxi88

And on a purely domestic note we have how many elections unduly influenced by FMSM shenanigans? Anyone who thinks 2004 and CBS/Dan Rather was an aberration is doing some serious drugs.

730 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:26:43pm
731 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:26:47pm

So- the other day I was locked out of work- not due to my own doing. Can I still get paid for that?

732 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:27:02pm

re: #728 carefulnow

Have you checked with your county assessor?

Well, if he's Chamberlain, I've got a chance.
;) Obscure riff on the '30's, me trying to annex my neighbor's land, as if it were Sudeten.

733 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:28:02pm

re: #726 Guanxi88

If you want to go back a ways, you can add about 10 million Chinese, starved, shot, and crushed when the Reds took power on the mainland. MSM played its part, eve, then, as did State.

Oh, and China was during the days of radio, TV was not yet a big factor in the media influence mix.

734 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:28:10pm

re: #731 Sharmuta

So- the other day I was locked out of work- not due to my own doing. Can I still get paid for that?

Who locked you out?
What happened?

735 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:28:15pm

re: #699 Guanxi88

Humans resemble the Divinity by virtue of our possessing a mind; there is, of course, no corporeality in the Divine.

Unless you are fundamentalist in your perspective, in which case God looks just like Charlton Heston and Jesus is an Anglo with long blond hair - I know , I have the picture.

/

736 avanti  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:28:25pm

re: #354 Charles

We didn't lose it entirely. Humans still have a vestigial tailbone.

If you fall down on it, you'll be reminded.

737 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:28:28pm

re: #730 buzzsawmonkey

Yes- there is a substitute. It's called the LAW. Human nature doesn't conform to justice on it's own.

738 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:29:14pm

re: #735 The Shadow Do

Unless you are fundamentalist in your perspective, in which case God looks just like Charlton Heston and Jesus is an Anglo with long blond hair - I know , I have the picture.

/

Now, I'm a big Heston fan and all....

739 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:29:26pm

re: #734 reine.de.tout

Who locked you out?
What happened?

We have an automated door. It was broken, so I couldn't get in for my shift. I think I shouldn't have to take a doc in my pay since I did show up. It's not my fault I couldn't work.

740 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:29:37pm

re: #736 avanti

If you fall down on it, you'll be reminded.

Or get it slammed by a moving car, as I did.

741 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:31:05pm

re: #735 The Shadow Do

Reminds me of the quip that G-d made man in His image, and Man returned the favor.

742 coquimbojoe  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:31:27pm

re: #724 HoosierHoops

Prop 13 was sweet...

One of the most sensible laws ever enacted.

743 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:31:55pm

re: #730 buzzsawmonkey

I don't particularly support a balanced budget amendment. To me, the notion of passing talismanic laws is silly. There is no substitute for actual responsibility in behavior, and an attempt at such a "legal fix" merely fosters the belief that there is.

History has shown that taking responsibility when government is the agent is not going to happen.

744 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:32:02pm

re: #739 Sharmuta

We have an automated door. It was broken, so I couldn't get in for my shift. I think I shouldn't have to take a doc in my pay since I did show up. It's not my fault I couldn't work.

You need to talk to your employer.
You held up your end of the bargain - you presented yourself at the appointed time, ready for work. Their door not being in proper working order resulted in your being unable to get into the building. Whatever they should apply to you as well as anyone else who was locked out.

745 jorline  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:32:22pm

re: #653 Charles

And of course, the current governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty is ... you guessed it ... a creationist.

We're all brothers, Charles...I'm not feeling the love from you.
//

746 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:32:36pm
747 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:33:04pm

re: #741 Guanxi88

Reminds me of the quip that G-d made man in His image, and Man returned the favor.

excellent.

748 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:33:50pm

re: #744 reine.de.tout

You need to talk to your employer.
You held up your end of the bargain - you presented yourself at the appointed time, ready for work. Their door not being in proper working order resulted in your being unable to get into the building. Whatever they should apply to you as well as anyone else who was locked out.

Well- that's just it. My other co-workers were still locked out later, and they got to write in their hours. I think I should get to do so as well.

749 Racer X  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:34:12pm

re: #739 Sharmuta

We have an automated door. It was broken, so I couldn't get in for my shift. I think I shouldn't have to take a doc in my pay since I did show up. It's not my fault I couldn't work.

In California if you show up to work and your employer sends you home, they have to pay you 4 hours minimum.

750 Guanxi88  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:34:27pm

re: #747 The Shadow Do

excellent.

Wish I had the kinda mental wattage to come up with stuff like that on my own.

751 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:35:27pm

re: #748 Sharmuta

Well- that's just it. My other co-workers were still locked out later, and they got to write in their hours. I think I should get to do so as well.

Well, there you go. When you go to talk to them, make your very reasonable case in a very calm way - You were locked out even though you were there on time, ready for work - the door did not function properly keeping you out and your hours were not recorded - but your co-workers were paid for the time they were similarly locked out.
Stay calm.

752 JHW  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:35:29pm

Re historic preservation, the French government has done an interesting thing near one of the most famous caves in the world, Lascaux.


Situated in the Dordogne, near to the village of Montignac-sur-Vézère, in the heart of Périgord Noir, lies Lascaux, the masterpiece of prehistoric art. This cave of medium size for the region extends for about 200 metres and is made up of alternating chambers which are more or less circular, and passages. The frescoes represent numerous animals: horses, bulls, deer, ibex, as well as members of the cat family, a bear, a rhinoceros and even an imaginary creature commonly known as the " unicorn". These paintings are accompanied by enigmatic symbols. The positioning of certain paintings on the rock face and the presence of holes 2 metres from the ground indicate that scaffolding was used.

The organic debris found in the Lascaux cave has been dated at around 15000 years BC, which ties in with other finds that have been attributed to the early Magdalenian period.

After the Second World War, the cave was developed for tourism. Between 1948 and 1963 there were a million visitors. But this influx of people disturbed the cave’s natural equilibrium. Fungi and bacteria developed on the walls — " the green sickness" — as did white calcite — "the white sickness" — which is a recrystallisation of the rock itself. On March the 20th, 1963, André Malraux, then minister of Cultural Affairs, ordered that the cave be closed.

It took several years to halt the deterioration process and re-establish the proper conditions for ensuring preservation. Lascaux was saved, but only specialists were allowed access. To public demand, it was decided to build a facsimile. It was taken over by the "Conseil General" in 1978 and the first tourist entered Lascaux II on July the 18th 1983. The replica is situated on the same hillside as the original cave and is buried underground. It reproduces the Hall of Bulls and the Axial Gallery which represent 90% of the original Lascaux paintings. Two museographic antechambers retrace the history of the cave and explain the techniques used by the artists. Lascaux II is a triumph of technology, unique in the world. Rigorous scientific and artistic methods were used to recreate the incomparable atmosphere of the original cave: a reinforced concrete shell was created using shipbuilding techniques, the relief of the cave was reconstituted down to the tiniest detail, and the polychromatic paintings were executed just as the originals were 17 000 years ago, using natural pigments.

Lascaux ll

753 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:36:37pm

re: #746 buzzsawmonkey

I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore because were not going to see eye to eye on it. I think you're wrong, for reasons too lengthy to get into here. Of all the people on this blog- you surprise me the most at not appreciating the rule of law and restrictions on power. Unreal.

754 carefulnow  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:37:10pm

re: #124 justabill

8:00
[Link: vote.sos.ca.gov...]

755 carefulnow  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:38:05pm

re: #732 Guanxi88

LOL - Late to the thread.

756 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:38:18pm

re: #744 reine.de.tout

You need to talk to your employer.
You held up your end of the bargain - you presented yourself at the appointed time, ready for work. Their door not being in proper working order resulted in your being unable to get into the building. Whatever they should apply to you as well as anyone else who was locked out.

errrrrr..I'm not so sure..There is the expectation of work..But sometimes there are delays...I'd hang out in the sunshine and wait for facilities to show up..

757 rumcrook  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:38:21pm

my greatx5000 uncle was a very private individual. I dont know how charles aquired a photo of him but this is a personal family issue and we would like it to remain so. this comment serves as notice we would like him to take down the picture at the top of this thread of uncle harold/

758 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:39:08pm

re: #739 Sharmuta

We have an automated door. It was broken, so I couldn't get in for my shift. I think I shouldn't have to take a doc in my pay since I did show up. It's not my fault I couldn't work.

Certainly, at a minimum you are due a couple hours pay.

759 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:40:48pm

re: #756 HoosierHoops

errrrrr..I'm not so sure..There is the expectation of work..But sometimes there are delays...I'd hang out in the sunshine and wait for facilities to show up..

She showed up ready for work, on time.
But you are correct.
Employment laws differ from state to state.
The place for Shar to begin is to talk to her employer.
Apparently, other employees got paid for the time they were shut out.
If so, then she should be too.

760 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:41:34pm

re: #757 rumcrook

my greatx5000 uncle was a very private individual. I dont know how charles aquired a photo of him but this is a personal family issue and we would like it to remain so. this comment serves as notice we would like him to take down the picture at the top of this thread of uncle harold/

You gonna lemur comments like that if the photo isn't taken down?

/----------> moving to the next one

761 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:43:43pm

re: #759 reine.de.tout

She showed up ready for work, on time.
But you are correct.
Employment laws differ from state to state.
The place for Shar to begin is to talk to her employer.
Apparently, other employees got paid for the time they were shut out.
If so, then she should be too.

{reine}
You are right on that..Hope you are well

762 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:45:49pm

re: #761 HoosierHoops

{reine}
You are right on that..Hope you are well

{HH}
Doin' fine, HH.
Hope you are well too!

763 Digital Display  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:46:46pm

re: #762 reine.de.tout

{HH}
Doin' fine, HH.
Hope you are well too!

NBA championship season..I'm right as rain my friend

764 avanti  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:47:47pm

re: #740 FurryOldGuyJeans

Or get it slammed by a moving car, as I did.

Then the donuts cushion was your friend.

765 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:48:29pm
766 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:52:49pm
767 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 5:54:29pm

re: #765 buzzsawmonkey

I agree that the Constitution should not be amended for light purposes, but were talking about the fiscal ruin of our country, with elected officials and an electorate that doesn't want to hold them accountable. I think a fair trade-off is correcting this oversight. I honestly believe that if our Founders knew how out of hand government spending would become, they would have added a balanced budget provision in the original document.

The more I read Thomas Sowell and the Federalist Papers, the more I think this is the proposal that could alter our current mess. There are few things we see wrong in society that I can't argue are a result of government spending.

768 tjexcite  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:07:48pm

I went to a cino (Christan in name only) school they did not teach any thing on either subject per se, Evolution or Creation but, we did have the fetal pig dissection and had a comparison class on how similar they are to humans. But nothing on why just that they are, teach to the test and when the test has nothing on it then it is not taught many of chapters where just skipped.

Another thing that is missing as with the trillions of spending and millions of years, the size is lost.
Not my grandfather was not a Lemar but my grand to the power of one million father may have been.

769 jones  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:14:53pm

47 million years. So well preserved. I can't keep a coffee mug for a year.

Anyone know what kind of rock it was in?

770 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:17:35pm

re: #769 jones

47 million years. So well preserved. I can't keep a coffee mug for a year.

Anyone know what kind of rock it was in?

It's in the article. Try following the link.

771 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:20:01pm
772 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:24:29pm

re: #771 buzzsawmonkey

I'm open to (reluctant) conviction on this issue, but I tell you frankly that part of the problem is imagining who on earth I would trust to draft it.

You.

773 Sharmuta  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:27:26pm

re: #771 buzzsawmonkey

I'm open to (reluctant) conviction on this issue, but I tell you frankly that part of the problem is imagining who on earth I would trust to draft it.

For one- there is already a draft. The one that was proposed in 1995.

Second- I can't stress A Conflict of Visions enough for clarifying political thought for me. We are fortunate enough to have had Founders who understood human nature enough to restrict the power of the government over the people and restrict the people from others as well. When that balance is off, we have the means to correct it in this country by exercising our right to amend the contract. It's wrong for government to spend our children into debt. If they're not going to be responsible on their own, it is incumbent upon us to make them via the law.

774 Hydrocarbon Hank  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:31:12pm

This is the laugh I've been needing all day...quite hilarious.

775 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:35:03pm

re: #774 Hydrocarbon Hank

This is the laugh I've been needing all day...quite hilarious.

That's wonderful that you're getting such a big laugh out of this announcement. Do you always find such amusement in scientific breakthroughs?

776 Lincolntf  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:37:51pm

re: #677 buzzsawmonkey

A universal ban on allowing the citizens who pay for the preservation of these sites is an absolute contradiction of the stated aims of the agencies charged with preserving them.
I've also been to the "Frank House", and I had a lot better access than I got at my own National Park.
Of course, after the Frank House, I went to the Torture Museum and...ahem..."The Grasshopper", so my memory might be a bit twisted.

777 Hydrocarbon Hank  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:42:11pm

Yes, especially the scientific breakthroughs currently lining my pockets

778 [deleted]  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:45:35pm
779 theatheistjew  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:50:49pm

Hey Charles, you'll love what Cretard/racist Hal Turner has to say about the find:

780 Gus  Tue, May 19, 2009 6:53:41pm

re: #779 theatheistjew

Hey Charles, you'll love what Cretard/racist Hal Turner has to say about the find:

The comments there are disgusting but typical.

Hal Turner. Isn't that Sean Hannity's old buddy?

781 ShanghaiEd  Tue, May 19, 2009 7:05:51pm

On the Hal Turner comments, this may be the most original "refutation" of the lemur fossil I've seen so far:

Remember this was supposedly found in Germany a nation that was once great but has devolved into a sad apology of its former self.

A nation that would extradite an 89 year old grandfather for supposedly being a guard at a WW2 prison camp has to be doubted in any other area including so-called "missing links."

782 theatheistjew  Tue, May 19, 2009 7:11:08pm

The thing I don't get about Cretard racists is what color they think their Adam and Eve were. I'd bet tons that they think they were white. So how do they think blacks came about?

783 zombie  Tue, May 19, 2009 7:32:19pm

re: #782 theatheistjew

The thing I don't get about Cretard racists is what color they think their Adam and Eve were. I'd bet tons that they think they were white. So how do they think blacks came about?

They've got an explanation for that. Something about the "Sons of Ham" of something like that, from Genesis. I forget the details. Totally antiquated Biblical racial craziness.

784 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, May 19, 2009 7:49:38pm

re: #776 Lincolntf

A universal ban on allowing the citizens who pay for the preservation of these sites is an absolute contradiction of the stated aims of the agencies charged with preserving them.
I've also been to the "Frank House", and I had a lot better access than I got at my own National Park.
Of course, after the Frank House, I went to the Torture Museum and...ahem..."The Grasshopper", so my memory might be a bit twisted.

I think the answer lies in allowing interested individuals the right to book a guided tour of such sites, well in advance, with the guiding to be done by some person expert in the subject matter of the site in question.

Unfortunately, many natural and/or historical wonders can be destroyed or degraded by vandalism, or simply by people wanting to snag a souvenir.

785 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, May 19, 2009 8:56:27pm

re: #367 solomonpanting

God created the universe in seven* days but left a trail of disinformation suggesting millions of years of evolution in order to avoid criticism of His Creation.

Norman Mailer

(*Yes, he said seven.)

Such a fraud, that guy.

786 JimK  Thu, May 21, 2009 7:56:15pm

Wow, it does look amazingly human! Is that you, Cousin Bob?


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Bill Evans ‘Peace Piece’ Virtual Museum Exhibit: Pasos Peace Museum (visit: www. pasospeacemuseum.org)—Bill Evans's "Peace Piece" is an unrehearsed modal composition that he recorded for his "Everybody Digs Bill Evans" LP in 1958. It is hailed as one of the most beautiful and ...
Thanos
4 days, 6 hours ago
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Have You Ever Seen the Rain - Endless Summer (Creedence Clearwater Revival Cover) (Grand Canyon) Thanks for watching our cover of "Have You Ever Seen The Rain" by Creedence Clearwater Revival. Subscribe: Please Note: No drones were flown in the Grand Canyon National Park. All drone footage was purchased off shutterstock.com. Follow Endless Summer:Instagram: ...
Thanos
4 days, 6 hours ago
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The Allman Betts - ‘Melodies Are Memories’ (Live at WFUV) wfuv.org • Follow @wfuv: ow.ly The Allman Betts Band performs "Melodies are Memories" live in Studio A. Recorded 3/27/19. Host: Eric HollandAudio: Chris RussoCameras: Kay Kurkierewicz, Jeffrey Pelayo, Jake Lee, Mackenzie Cranna and Elise LeasureEditor: Jake Lee and Kay ...
Thanos
4 days, 6 hours ago
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Stevie Ray Vaughan - Crossfire + Travis Walk (Instrumental) [1989] When I first heard Stevie Ray Vaughan it was like a light went off in my head. Being a hack guitar player I was not unlike any other. You chase sounds in your head.What SRV did was just roll ...
Wah Gwaan?!
4 days, 9 hours ago
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