California Voters Say ‘No Way!’

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
US News • Wed May 20, 2009 at 4:56 pm PDT • Views: 183

All of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s proposed budget measures and tax increases for California were shot down in flames yesterday, and now the question is: how will California dig itself out of its fiscal hole?

Federal bail-out time?

Well, he may have had a grand day in D.C. schmoozing with the Democratic president and exchanging warm words of mutual praise about car exhausts, but Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger got a different kind of message tonight from California voters.

Not that many came out to vote in local races and on six statewide propositions, as we reported earlier Tuesday. But the ones who did were resoundingly defeating the governor’s budget proposals, as opinion polls had predicted.

Which is probably why the Budgetnator was far away in Washington during the day, instead of being photographed voting locally and then sitting on a hotel room couch watching results roll in during a Sacramento photo op.

Of the day’s six fiscal propositions — the rainy day fund, education funding, lottery modernization, children’s services funding and temporary reallocation of mental health funding — all went down — and hard. The results were roughly 60-40 against.

The only proposition to sail through was one preventing pay increases to top elected state officials during years of budget deficits. That one was being approved about 76-23. Take that! (That doesn’t affect Arnold, of course, because he’s never taken a state salary.)

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301 comments

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1 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 4:58:05pm

One of those votes was mine I'm proud to say.

2 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 4:58:16pm
3 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 4:59:32pm

And Mrs LGoPs was another one.
Hooah!

4 JammieWearingFool  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:00:35pm

Hopefully all hell doesn't break loose until after my vacation out there this summer.

/

5 hebrewtoyou  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:00:37pm

We just need to shrink the size of the CA gov't. Cut jobs; cut spending; encourage businesses to remain. Our tax revenues will increase if our legislature would cease enacting laws that punish success.

6 Kobalt  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:01:10pm

Dont understand why. Do Californians prefer a govn't shutdown? Things in that beautiful state will deteriorate FAST...

7 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:01:48pm

California needs to learn how to live within its means. Just like I do.

8 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:02:03pm
9 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:02:45pm

How will that be interpreted inside the Beltway?
Inside the Oval Office?
Inside Obama's ego?

/things get more and more interesting

10 JammieWearingFool  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:02:55pm

Perhaps this will usher in another movement such as occured after Prop 13 in 1978. There comes a breaking point for taxpayers and I suspect that point is coming soon.

Nationwide.

11 nyc redneck  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:03:35pm

the voters in california had to say no.
they are out of any extra to give the gov't to spread around.
(o should take take the hint, they are speaking to him).

12 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:03:50pm

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

Time to start nosing around Sutter's Mill to see if there are any scraps of gold left over from '49.

You're going to Lode up?

13 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:05:04pm
14 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:05:34pm
15 Gus  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:05:36pm

Let's see, what shall they cut. They can start by reducing salaries for the state legislature in Sacramento. Get rid of their gasoline (fuel) cards. Probably a lot things they can outright remove.

16 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:05:47pm

make them beg...get on their knees and beg to the American people...we have SINNED oh brothers!...not a dime from me

17 DEZes  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:06:14pm

re: #6 Kobalt

Dont understand why. Do Californians prefer a govn't shutdown? Things in that beautiful state will deteriorate FAST...

A government must live within its peoples means, you can not tax a people into prosperity.

18 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:06:25pm

re: #14 buzzsawmonkey

If things pan out properly.

Stay sluice.

19 Steve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:06:28pm

1. Charge mehico for all the medical care and education that we are giving to their citizens.

20 calcajun  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:07:00pm

You know, if it weren't for weather--and so-so surfing--I'd seriously consider moving back to the Gulf Coast. My four kids make it an impossibility.

21 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:07:03pm

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

Time to start nosing around Sutter's Mill to see if there are any scraps of gold left over from '49.

there is and people have been panning it quite successfully...still money to be made

22 ladycatnip  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:07:05pm

I listened to John and Ken on the way home from work and they were playing clips of the CA lawmakers...most arrogant, idiotic, thick-headed people we've elected. The first lady lawmaker intoned that there was "voter fatigue" - that we were tired and confused. The more clips they played the more angry I got at these morons who are running California into the ground.

23 DEZes  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:07:28pm

re: #18 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Stay sluice.

Ore you guys at it again?

24 Lokotes  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:07:34pm

Very good news! And check out the map Ace posted. Not a single county in the deep blue state of California voted for a tax hike. Consider this a guarantee that The One won’t be raising your marginal rate until, say, January 2013 at the earliest.

Woohooo!

25 calcajun  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:08:20pm

re: #12 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That's a worthless nugget of information.

26 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:08:39pm

California can go to Hell, I'm goin to Texas
DC

27 NonNativeTexan  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:08:47pm

Irony is the way to fix it is to lower taxes in California.
It is a proven strategy, you make it up in volume.
You encourage peolpe to make money and keep more of it
for themselves and guess what? they like it and make more
money.

28 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:08:48pm

re: #22 ladycatnip

I listened to John and Ken on the way home from work and they were playing clips of the CA lawmakers...most arrogant, idiotic, thick-headed people we've elected. The first lady lawmaker intoned that there was "voter fatigue" - that we were tired and confused. The more clips they played the more angry I got at these morons who are running California into the ground.

I heard another state senator say last week that the real problem was that there were republicans standing in the way. The host asked her if she understood the conspt of checks and balances and it was obvious from her answer that she did not...

29 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:08:49pm

re: #23 DEZes

Ore you guys at it again?

Just adding some color.

/but about to bring down the gravel on my presence here

30 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:08:50pm

re: #15 Gus 802

Let's see, what shall they cut. They can start by reducing salaries for the state legislature in Sacramento. Get rid of their gasoline (fuel) cards. Probably a lot things they can outright remove.

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

31 DEZes  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:08:58pm

re: #25 calcajun

That's a worthless nugget of information.

Dont mine them.

32 doppelganglander  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:09:10pm

The first thing I did online this morning was try to get the election results. Both Yahoo News and the L.A. Times had stories that looked like they ought to be straight news stories. They were actually editorials disguised as stories about how poor Arnold and the Legislature would have to fire teachers and leave roads unrepaired because the mean old voters had shot down the propositions.

I've got a solution for you, Arnie -- reduce the legislature to part-time, with salary cuts to match. Cooperate with the Federal government to remove the thousands of illegal aliens that are consuming services without contributing an equal amount in tax revenues. Cut personal and business income taxes and make California attractive to business again. I'll bet the deficit will shrink like magic.

33 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:10:08pm

re: #30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

My Dad is probably rolling in his grave.

34 calcajun  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:10:21pm

re: #23 DEZes

Ore you guys at it again?

Yes, our friends and alloys in the pun trenches are in a humorous vein.

35 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:10:50pm

California is too big to fail..
I heard that somewhere

36 Steve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:11:11pm

Unfortunately this tax and tax and tax and tax and spendis finding its way into Washington State.

37 davinvalkri  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:11:12pm

re: #32 doppelganglander

The first thing I did online this morning was try to get the election results. Both Yahoo News and the L.A. Times had stories that looked like they ought to be straight news stories. They were actually editorials disguised as stories about how poor Arnold and the Legislature would have to fire teachers and leave roads unrepaired because the mean old voters had shot down the propositions.

I've got a solution for you, Arnie -- reduce the legislature to part-time, with salary cuts to match. Cooperate with the Federal government to remove the thousands of illegal aliens that are consuming services without contributing an equal amount in tax revenues. Cut personal and business income taxes and make California attractive to business again. I'll bet the deficit will shrink like magic.

Those all sound good, but they're probably politically suicidal. Any phoenixes in the crowd want to make those proposals?

38 calcajun  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:11:24pm

re: #35 HoosierHoops

I hear the US may secede from California.

39 Killian Bundy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:11:43pm

re: #7 LGoPs

California needs to learn how to live within its means. Just like I do.

Why?

/you and the rest of us Federal taxpayers are just going to end up bailing California out just like the UAW, you don't think TOTUS will actually let his gravy train go bankrupt do you?

40 freetoken  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:11:44pm

re: #6 Kobalt

The reality, and it is tough one, is that salaries to state employees are just a fraction of the budget, yet they are arguably the only thing (of size) that can be cut.

Entitlement programs can't be reduced without changing the laws that created them (unlikely.) However, the Governor can lay employees off, and of course not hire new ones.

So, while some people saw the Governator's threats as just political positioning, there are elements of truth to his stand.

41 Gus  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:11:51pm

re: #30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

80,000 X 100,000 on salaries alone. That's $8,000,000,000 per year. Average. Somehow I doubt that will get cut but it would be the right thing to do.

42 ladycatnip  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:12:33pm

#24 Lokotes

Very good news! And check out the map Ace posted. Not a single county in the deep blue state of California voted for a tax hike. Consider this a guarantee that The One won’t be raising your marginal rate until, say, January 2013 at the earliest.

Woohooo!

One thing they are going to do is try to get rid of the 2/3 vote for tax hikes. They'll lose, but these guys are like pit bulls when it comes to taking our money - they just won't let go [apologies to any pit bulls who may take offense].

43 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:12:39pm

for California...and well said


[Link: www.imeem.com...]

44 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:12:56pm

---
---
drcordell just showed up again !

Gitmo thread!

45 DEZes  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:13:37pm

re: #34 calcajun

Yes, our friends and alloys in the pun trenches are in a humorous vein.

Oh, you should play more often, that was good.

46 Steve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:13:50pm

re: #38 calcajun


fixed that for you;-P

I hear the US may secede California from the union.

47 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:14:59pm

got to scrape that shit right off yer shoes...

48 freetoken  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:15:04pm

re: #30 Charles


And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

Yeah. I posted earlier about how state (and some local) employment in California is a more lucrative job than Federal employees. The retirement programs set up in many local and state government concerns are very very lucrative, and IMO totally irresponsible (since they can't be maintained.)

49 jayzee  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:15:09pm

Federal bail-out time?

Oh I hope not. As someone who got hit again with AMT, I can't even right off my own state taxes on my returns. NOW I have to pay for another state's taxes?

This may be the straw.

50 Wendya  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:15:11pm

re: #7 LGoPs

California needs to learn how to live within its means. Just like I do.

It needs to be run more like a business and less like a welfare state.

51 calcajun  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:15:16pm

re: #46 Steve

That is the sort of pedantry up with which I shall not put!//

52 solomonpanting  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:15:43pm

re: #30 Charles

public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time

I don't have any data, but suspect that a large percentage always vote Dem bums into office.

53 doppelganglander  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:15:49pm

re: #37 davinvalkri

Those all sound good, but they're probably politically suicidal. Any phoenixes in the crowd want to make those proposals?

Obviously the legislature won't vote to minimize its own inflated importance. Can the state constitution be amended through the proposition process? Number two, I don't think the immigration enforcement proposal would be as toxic as you think. Illegal immigrants form a big part of the gang problem, and legal immigrants are possibly the most adamant about enforcing the law, because they had to jump through hoops to get here. Cutting taxes would be the hardest part and would require a governor who's a true leader, as well as a sea change in the state legislature.

54 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:16:12pm

Hello All!
At least in California, the voters have a say. When we tell the massively corrupt pols what we want done here in Mass, If they don't like it, they simply do not implement what the people voted for, or refuse to let us vote at all on the issue!
Good on Californians...I hope the rest of the country follows suit.
To see what I mean about Massachusetts, take a look at this story from today, Mass democratic politicians REFUSE to release their staff names and salaries... I know, before you cite FOIA, the corrupt bastards here voted to exempt themselves from those disclosures a long time ago. All of the Republicans have released the info, Not a single Democrat has. They flat out refuse to.
target="_blank">[Link: www.bostonherald.com...]

55 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:16:15pm

Gamey buttocks on the Gitmo thread!

56 calcajun  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:16:17pm

re: #45 DEZes

Yeah, but it looks like the mining puns are tailing off.

57 ladycatnip  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:17:03pm

#30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

Another deep cut they can make is the administration of the LAUSD. Unbelievably top heavy. Instead of laying off teachers, get rid of the fat cats.

58 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:17:25pm

re: #46 Steve

fixed that for you;-P

I hear the US may secede California from the union.

California will not fail...I'm a native..Let us wish her well and we get a new direction in the State..Don't Forget Reagan came from our fair state..
There is always hope and change..
/Did I just post that? :)

59 Steve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:17:52pm

re: #51 calcajun

Could not help myself. Coming off of pain meds.
I like this thread a lot of junny people on it.

60 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:18:23pm

re: #58 HoosierHoops

California will not fail...I'm a native..Let us wish her well and we get a new direction in the State..Don't Forget Reagan came from our fair state..
There is always hope and change..
/Did I just post that? :)

CA has already failed...what timeline are you riding?

61 nyc redneck  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:18:24pm

this is what liberal dems do whenever they can.
they squeeze and stifle until the citizens finally look around and say 'i have nothing left to give .'
this is where o is heading.
and biden's b.s. abt. 'give, give, give, it's PATRIOTIC to pay taxes", i a g.d joke.

62 Gus  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:18:37pm

This is from 2007 for CA legislators:

Your text to link...$113,098/year

Plus!

$162/day for each day they are in session.

63 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:18:38pm

An email from a banned moron about the Geert Wilders post:

Dearest Charles,

You said "Dear Mr. Wilders,As I’m sure you’ve heard, I am a
US blogger who’s very opposed to allowing the Belgian Vlaams Belang
party to be involved in any ‘anti-jihad’ movements." "I
received no answer — and that speaks volumes."

You didn't hear back because he has never heard of you. You self
important, narcissistic fuck! You have a couple thousand sycophants
that read your imbecilic blog. You're not Walter Cronkite you putz. Even
if he has heard of you he probably doesn't care, like MOST of the world.

God, you're good entertainment.

How can one be so completely out of touch with what most people are
feeling and thinking?

Feel the love!

(By the way, I know for a fact that not only Geert Wilders, but Filip DeWinter of the Vlaams Belang and other Eurofascists are very much aware of who I am...)

64 Steve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:18:51pm

re: #58 HoosierHoops

California will not fail...I'm a native..Let us wish her well and we get a new direction in the State..Don't Forget Reagan came from our fair state..
There is always hope and change..
/Did I just post that? :)

Oh I love California. I have relatives that live down in San Diego somewhere.

65 acwgusa  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:19:15pm

Charles, we got money from the federal "stimulus" act to shore up and expand food stamp outreach, and to cover other (street improvements, piddling stuff) and floated loans, etc.

66 davinvalkri  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:19:32pm

re: #62 Gus 802

This is from 2007 for CA legislators:

Your text to link...$113,098/year

Plus!

$162/day for each day they are in session.

They aren't in that much demand, are they? Engineers should get that sort of salary!
/blatant engineer whoring

67 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:20:50pm

re: #61 nyc redneck

this is what liberal dems do whenever they can.
they squeeze and stifle until the citizens finally look around and say 'i have nothing left to give .'
this is where o is heading.
and biden's b.s. abt. 'give, give, give, it's PATRIOTIC to pay taxes", i a g.d joke.

bring it on...I've got very little left to lose

68 Gus  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:20:51pm

re: #66 davinvalkri

They aren't in that much demand, are they? Engineers should get that sort of salary!
/blatant engineer whoring

Could you imagine? Or architects. Lucky if it goes up to 70,000 per year and they actually have to w-o-r-k and have experience, education and talent.

Politics, what a racket.

69 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:21:01pm

re: #63 Charles

A real poet, that one!

70 iLikeCandy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:21:07pm

re: #30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

Which is precisely why this will be another GM-style bailout. Kill the organization, preserve the unions and the entitlement programs.

71 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:21:08pm

I'm in favor of the US selling California to China.

/

72 acwgusa  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:21:45pm

re: #71 justdanny

I'm in favor of the US selling California to China.

/

We're offering it to Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona first.

73 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:21:48pm
74 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:22:35pm

re: #60 albusteve

CA has already failed...what timeline are you riding?

No it hasn't my friend...Don't be fooled by economic voodoo..California is a powerful economic force...They will come out ok..

75 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:22:48pm
76 Steve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:22:51pm

re: #72 acwgusa

We're offering it to Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona first.

It is already to close to the Pacific Northwest. Lets sell it to Nepal.

77 davinvalkri  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:22:53pm

re: #68 Gus 802

Could you imagine? Or architects. Lucky if it goes up to 70,000 per year and they actually have to w-o-r-k and have experience, education and talent.

Politics, what a racket.

Or military officers and enlisted men, or surgeons, or...the list goes on indefinitely, and most definitely does not include politicians!

78 acwgusa  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:23:00pm

re: #73 buzzsawmonkey

I bet right about now progressives are starting to regret that whole "initiative and referendum" thing that the Progressive Party instituted in the early 20th century.

California Politicians love the initiative and referendum, so they don't have to make any hard choices, just foist on the voters.

79 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:23:13pm

It is going to see what happens and how this plays out. I think there will be a lot of unintended consequences. The most likely scenario is that we'll all have to pay for California's extravagances.

80 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:23:23pm

re: #72 acwgusa California has been out of control for a long time. If it was a child it would be time to kick it out of the house.

81 Killian Bundy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:24:01pm

Schwarzenegger already tried to cut SEIU salaries last week and the next thing you know, SEIU is on a conference call with the White House and then California is told they can't do that or they'll lose "stimulus" money.

/I believe the White House may have since backed off that but it's all still one huge, bloated, gold plated union racket

82 Gus  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:24:11pm

State of California
Civil Service Pay Scale - by Class Title

178 pages.

The amount of class titles is mind boggling. I'm sure they have the CCCP beat.

83 iLikeCandy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:24:23pm

re: #52 solomonpanting

I don't have any data, but suspect that a large percentage always vote Dem bums into office.

California's gerrymandering guarantees permanent incumbencies in both parties.

It's not only necessary to bust the unions, but to redistrict. Radical change is needed.

84 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:24:32pm

re: #74 HoosierHoops

No it hasn't my friend...Don't be fooled by economic voodoo..California is a powerful economic force...They will come out ok..

50-80b in debt with no way to pay it is utter failure...you are just dreaming

85 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:25:09pm

Have you ever seen LA in google maps or in google earth? Its like a big cancer on the ground. I mean BIG.

86 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:25:27pm

re: #30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

And every single one of them belong public employee unions. The same unions that basically control the state right now.

87 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:25:37pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

It is going to see what happens and how this plays out. I think there will be a lot of unintended consequences. The most likely scenario is that we'll all have to pay for California's extravagances.

I won't do it...will you take a stand?

88 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:25:56pm

re: #78 acwgusa

California Politicians love the initiative and referendum, so they don't have to make any hard choices, just foist on the voters.

Sorry to disagree..In many ways the pols hate referendums in Cali..
Takes away the power they have..Prop 13 anyone? I guess if I tried I could link to a thousands props that messed with the power structure..

89 Curt  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:26:09pm

Watch: The WON will come along and take from the rest of the taxpayers to help out a "friend."

I was thinking today, why not just do it. Name The WON Governor of the Nation of America, then disband all but Congress...then 535 people + 1 and all the Fed regulators could just make a set of uniform standards for us all. Heck, all those state level politicians off the payroll in one feel swoop? Save a lot of money and stamp costs, too! You'll only have to have 4 stamped letters now: Your Rep, your two senators, and the Prez.

Then, we'd have to bail out the USPS...

Anyhow, in the long run, the Fed organization will shore up CA with money7 from all over, including the residents of CA who still have money, but voted against these issues.

90 acwgusa  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:26:42pm

re: #83 iLikeCandy

California's gerrymandering guarantees permanent incumbencies in both parties.

It's not only necessary to bust the unions, but to redistrict. Radical change is needed.

It's a catch-22. The Legislature set the districts, so perpetual ruin is the name of the game.

91 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:26:44pm

re: #74 HoosierHoops

Hoops, if they keep spending the way they are, Like us in Mass, there is no way out. the debt will continue to climb, and the state will continue to bleed taxpayers, both in the wallet and the exodus.

92 nyc redneck  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:26:51pm

i'm really glad the voters in california did this tho.
it is a good sign.
enough is enough, especially when ca. says so.

93 SummerSong  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:26:57pm

re: #72 acwgusa

We're offering it to Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona first.

Can they afford to buy the sixth largest economy in the world? Probably not.

94 acwgusa  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:28:26pm

re: #93 SummerSong

Can they afford to buy the sixth largest economy in the world? Probably not.

Quickly going to become the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th...on the way to the bottom.

95 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:28:28pm

re: #1 LGoPs

One of those votes was mine I'm proud to say.

As was mine. Good on ya.

96 Gus  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:28:53pm
SR16 7655 DENTIST, DEPARTMENTS OF MENTAL HEALTH AND DEVELOPMENTAL SERVICES
A $7,013.00 - $9,163.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
B $8,482.00 - $11,084.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
C $8,728.00 - $11,405.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
D $8,936.00 - $11,674.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
P $12,124.00 - $16,915.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
Q $13,365.00 - $19,376.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
R $15,064.00 - $20,777.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
S $14,460.00 - $16,915.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
T $15,940.00 - $19,376.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16
U $17,966.00 - $20,777.00 01 19 21 P8 089 464 1 12 SE R16

I think those are monthly figures.

97 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:29:08pm

a federal bailout to the states breeches the spirit of the Constitution's 10th Amendment...it can be considered unlawful for the feds to get involved with state's financial problems

98 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:29:17pm

re: #73 buzzsawmonkey

I bet right about now progressives are starting to regret that whole "initiative and referendum" thing that the Progressive Party instituted in the early 20th century.

I've had mixed feelings about it since I moved here 5 years ago. I'm a reasonably engaged voter and not to sound arrogant, I think I am more educated on the issues than many. And much of the time I don't know how to vote intelligently. The manipulation and out and out distortions are all over the place in the advertising run ups to these referendums. I think many people vote unthinkingly and give their stamp of approval to issues they know little to nothing about.
This time was different and thankfully so.

99 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:29:30pm
100 Ojoe  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:29:38pm

re: #83 iLikeCandy

With gerrymandering you get either complacence (You are in a R district and you are an R, or vice versa), or you get despondence, if you are a D in an R district or vice versa.

It is entirely no good,

The electorate is either complacent or despondent.

How do you get good government out of that?

101 acwgusa  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:30:31pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

I would like to see the whole nation redistricted by computer.

Place a grid over a map of every state, and use some specially-crafted algorithm to cause the squares/cells to swell or shrink according to the population density, with no heed whatsoever paid to ethnic lines.

It would be a true reshuffling of the deck.

One Diebold Redistricting Computer, coming right up!

102 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:30:56pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

I would like to see the whole nation redistricted by computer.

Place a grid over a map of every state, and use some specially-crafted algorithm to cause the squares/cells to swell or shrink according to the population density, with no heed whatsoever paid to ethnic lines.

It would be a true reshuffling of the deck.

Dead on. I think gerrymandering, by either party, is a direct assault and affront to the concept of representative government.

103 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:31:18pm
104 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:31:39pm

re: #93 SummerSong

Can they afford to buy the sixth largest economy in the world? Probably not.

Eighth I thought? Either way. When Katrina hit I thought, "thats what you get for living in a bowl below sea level on the coast". When the Mississippi floods I think, "thats what you get for living in the worlds biggest flood plane". When anyone in Cali bitches about anything in Cali I think, "Why the f@#$ does Charles live in Cali?" Not my business I know. But damn, just look at that place.

105 acwgusa  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:31:40pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

De times call for Diebold solution.

De Devil is in Da Tails.

106 iLikeCandy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:31:45pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

It is going to see what happens and how this plays out. I think there will be a lot of unintended consequences. The most likely scenario is that we'll all have to pay for California's extravagances.

Heehee, yes, and it's hard to figure out what concessions Obama can wring from us. We've got Hollywood pushing his propaganda, our second-from-the-bottom school system teaching his Word, our auto emission standards to the point where cars have to run on orange juice, our Mexican border still open, our entitlement programs roaring along, and our oil resources untapped. What more could he ask for (I fear to ask)?

107 Lee Coller  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:31:48pm

Interesting thing, if you look at the county-by-county maps, with the exception of 1B (which barely one in three counties, San Francisco, Santa Cruz, and Santa Clara) every measure except 1F lost in every county of the state, be it liberal SF or Marin or conservative OC. 1F won in every county of the state.

Hey if you can't pass a tax increase in San Francisco, it must be really bad!

108 Lee Coller  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:32:23pm

re: #107 Lee Coller

PIMF: one - won

109 Zimriel  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:32:38pm

re: #30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

Bingo. And when all those nephews, cronies, ward-heelers and shakedown-artists feel the pinch, they send a quiet word in with the legislature: "get the heat off us; or we'll stir up shit in your district, dig up personal dirt on you, and go find someone more amenable for your next primary". Their elected marionettes then moot a largescale cut in fire departments and police.

Ain't democracy grand?

110 DEZes  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:32:38pm

re: #102 LGoPs

Man this troll is a dork.
Yes its back.

111 SummerSong  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:33:35pm

re: #94 acwgusa

Quickly going to become the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th...on the way to the bottom.

Bottom? I don't think it will go quite that far.

112 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:33:42pm

re: #91 CapeCoddah

Hoops, if they keep spending the way they are, Like us in Mass, there is no way out. the debt will continue to climb, and the state will continue to bleed taxpayers, both in the wallet and the exodus.

Yeah you! Hope today finds you well...
I guess when you grew up in Cali and seen the state go from dead broke to paying street sweepers a 100k a year..Over and over again..
It's just a fact of life there..It's not the end of the world..It's just a bunch of lay-offs of over-paid workers...
Don't worry..when the checks don't pass the bank..you'd be surprised how the state will react...
/Love Indiana! These fuckers have cash in the bank and a real plan.. *Thud*

113 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:34:00pm

re: #11 nyc redneck

the voters in california had to say no.
they are out of any extra to give the gov't to spread around.
(o should take take the hint, they are speaking to him).

He won't be listening. He will nationalize California - turn over all the assets to the unions trust funds for their members retirement plans and they will vote for his reelection. The rest of us can pound sand.

"He won" - remember?

114 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:34:00pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

I would like to see the whole nation redistricted by computer.

Place a grid over a map of every state, and use some specially-crafted algorithm to cause the squares/cells to swell or shrink according to the population density, with no heed whatsoever paid to ethnic lines.

It would be a true reshuffling of the deck.

That is an idea I like.

115 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:34:13pm

re: #107 Lee Coller

Interesting thing, if you look at the county-by-county maps, with the exception of 1B (which barely one in three counties, San Francisco, Santa Cruz, and Santa Clara) every measure except 1F lost in every county of the state, be it liberal SF or Marin or conservative OC. 1F won in every county of the state.

Hey if you can't pass a tax increase in San Francisco, it must be really bad!

116 zuckerlilly  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:34:21pm

California is only a foretaste for what you will get if O. is successful with what Charles Krauthammer calls the "attempt to Europeanize the American economy".

117 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:34:24pm

re: #30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

I was flabbergasted to hear that state employees after 30 years service get 90% of their salary as pension. I don't begrudge anyone their livelihood but that is unsustainable.

118 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:34:50pm

re: #101 acwgusa

One Diebold Redistricting Computer, coming right up!

Yeah, but can it play Jeopardy? ;)

119 Killian Bundy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:34:52pm

re: #97 albusteve

a federal bailout to the states breeches the spirit of the Constitution's 10th Amendment...it can be considered unlawful for the feds to get involved with state's financial problems

/I don't recall the Constitution authorizing the government to by car companies either

120 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:35:03pm

re: #97 albusteve

a federal bailout to the states breeches the spirit of the Constitution's 10th Amendment...it can be considered unlawful for the feds to get involved with state's financial problems

How much do you think China will give for Napa Valley?

121 Captain Cool  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:35:10pm

Who will bail out America once Obama adopts the failed California model?

122 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:35:13pm

re: #97 albusteve

a federal bailout to the states breeches the spirit of the Constitution's 10th Amendment...it can be considered unlawful for the feds to get involved with state's financial problems

Spirit? Constitution? You really think that will slow him down? Hasn't so far.

123 iLikeCandy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:35:17pm

re: #71 justdanny

I'm in favor of the US selling California to China.

/

California will sell itself to China. The foreclosures and unsaleable properties are waiting to be gobbled up.

124 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:36:05pm

Stupid question, are there any states that are not in fiscal difficulty right now. Which ones? Heard on the news that 2 are doing just fine. But they were not elaborated.

125 Zimriel  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:36:20pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

I would like to see the whole nation redistricted by computer.

Place a grid over a map of every state, and use some specially-crafted algorithm to cause the squares/cells to swell or shrink according to the population density, with no heed whatsoever paid to ethnic lines.

It would be a true reshuffling of the deck.

I hear that some states set up nonpartisan boards to do pretty much what you described.

126 solomonpanting  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:36:24pm

re: #120 HoosierHoops

How much do you think China will give for Napa Valley?

No sour grapes, plrease.

127 SummerSong  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:36:30pm

re: #104 justdanny

Eighth I thought? Either way. When Katrina hit I thought, "thats what you get for living in a bowl below sea level on the coast". When the Mississippi floods I think, "thats what you get for living in the worlds biggest flood plane". When anyone in Cali bitches about anything in Cali I think, "Why the f@#$ does Charles live in Cali?" Not my business I know. But damn, just look at that place.

I don't like who and how they run this state (and haven't for many years), but I love California.

128 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:36:48pm

re: #117 LGoPs

I was flabbergasted to hear that state employees after 30 years service get 90% of their salary as pension. I don't begrudge anyone their livelihood but that is unsustainable.

Galveston, TX made it work...
They opted out of Social Security, prudently invested, didn't raid the pension fund for general operating expenses. They've been paying excellent pensions off the earning alone for years without touching the ever growing principal.

129 IslandLibertarian  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:36:49pm

Bravo California voters.

/remember prop. 13

130 anchors_aweigh  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:37:18pm

Stick a fork in California. It's done.

Texas created more new jobs in 2008 than all other 49 states combined. And Texas is the only state other than Georgia and North Dakota that is cutting taxes this year.

Maybe those crazy creationists in Texas are on to something.

131 Floral Giraffe  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:37:23pm

These are the same voters that elect Nancy Pelosi & Barbara Boxer. We need another Howard Jarvis or Ronald Reagan.

132 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:37:42pm

re: #119 Killian Bundy

/I don't recall the Constitution authorizing the government to by car companies either

somebody explained that to me one time...that it is legal for the feds to enter into private business somehow...yadda yadda...I didn't pay attention and I should have

133 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:37:43pm

re: #126 solomonpanting

No sour grapes, plrease.

He's fermenting unrest.

134 nyc redneck  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:37:57pm

re: #113 Bobibutu

He won't be listening. He will nationalize California - turn over all the assets to the unions trust funds for their members retirement plans and they will vote for his reelection. The rest of us can pound sand.

"He won" - remember?

isn't it interesting how the constitution means nothing now because no one wants to offend the messiah.
it won't go on like this forever. he will get slammed before too long.

135 jbolty  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:38:30pm

The voters here are clueless at best. I am pretty sure that in San Diego over half are renters so if they bother to vote at all they are in favor of "soaking the rich" meaning anyone that has a job that does not require a name tag.

136 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:39:05pm

re: #133 jcm

He's fermenting unrest.

Oh, quit your wine-ing.

137 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:39:10pm

re: #122 Bobibutu

Spirit? Constitution? You really think that will slow him down? Hasn't so far.

well then I am an Army of One...get outa the way or do something yourself about it...

138 IslandLibertarian  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:39:19pm

re: #130 anchors_aweigh

Stick a fork in California. It's done.

Maybe those crazy creationists in Texas are on to something.

Creating jobs?

139 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:39:22pm

re: #135 jbolty

The voters here are clueless at best. I am pretty sure that in San Diego over half are renters so if they bother to vote at all they are in favor of "soaking the rich" meaning anyone that has a job that does not require a name tag.

Doctors wear name tags...

;-P

140 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:40:19pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Oh, quit your wine-ing.

You can just put a cork in it!

;-)

141 iLikeCandy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:40:25pm

re: #90 acwgusa

It's a catch-22. The Legislature set the districts, so perpetual ruin is the name of the game.

Arnie tried (weakly) to redistrict the state in a past election, but voters rejected it. Leftist propaganda portrayed the panel of independent judges who would have done the redistricting as some sort of Evil Cabal, plus the language of the initiative had a lot of three-syllable words, so, y'know, it was like too much trouble to read.

142 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:40:30pm
143 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:40:31pm

re: #110 DEZes

Man this troll is a dork.
Yes its back.

Thanks. I'm on it...

144 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:40:51pm

re: #121 Captain Cool

Who will bail out America once Obama adopts the failed California model?

nobody is buying T bills now...they will be worthless come due...we are truly fucked if we continue down this path

145 freetoken  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:41:43pm

re: #131 Floral Giraffe

Ronald Reagan.

Who raised taxes...

One cannot unscramble an egg.

IOW, what has been done is now committed and the State of California (which means everyone who lives here) are on the hook for repaying the current debt and any future debt.

Fire season will come on strong in a couple of months down here... I for one am hoping that there is still a fully-staffed CDF around to fight them.

146 alegrias  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:42:37pm

Charles,

Thank you for this thread. I love California, it's where my earliest memories of America were formed in kindergarten, in Novato California and San Francisco, and after years abroad, back to Glendale, California and grandparents in Modesto.

California WAS America to me, and I want California strong, healthy, solvent, and back to being the world's 6th largest economy.

Thank you Californians who voted for sanity today. Let the fiscal sanity start with California and come East.

147 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:42:41pm

re: #143 LGoPs

Thanks. I'm on it...

Should I fire up the small BBQ or the large one?

148 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:42:44pm

re: #129 IslandLibertarian

Bravo California voters.

/remember prop. 13

How could I ever forget..After College I got married and bought a house on Hemlock Street in Napa for 13,700.00..
We sold it when we moved to Indiana...
A house in Napa I paid 13.7 for in 1973..You do the math...
Yea Cali!

149 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:42:47pm

re: #134 nyc redneck

isn't it interesting how the constitution means nothing now because no one wants to offend the messiah.
it won't go on like this forever. he will get slammed before too long.

when it blows it will be epic...better than all the Fourth of July's combined

150 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:43:01pm

re: #142 buzzsawmonkey

I've always thought we should combine some states. VT, NH, ME should be a state. CT, MA, RI. FL,GA. MD,DE,PA. VA,NC,SC. OH, WV,KY...ETC.

151 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:43:56pm

re: #123 iLikeCandy

California will sell itself to China. The foreclosures and unsaleable properties are waiting to be gobbled up.

It would stun everyone to find out the number of Chinese Nationals who already own property in CA. Here on education and work permits (thank you Mr. Sen. Swimmer) who have no intention of staying here in retirement. Just here to plunder as much as possible and then return to their homeland. They work in teams to accomplish their goals.

152 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:44:41pm

re: #147 jcm

Should I fire up the small BBQ or the large one?

HA!...booked it

153 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:44:46pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've always thought we should combine some states. VT, NH, ME should be a state. CT, MA, RI. FL,GA. MD,DE,PA. VA,NC,SC. OH, WV,KY...ETC.

WA and OR can become 3.

Cut off the eastern, red parts of those two states and make a new one.

154 Wendya  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:45:02pm

re: #93 SummerSong

Can they afford to buy the sixth largest economy in the world? Probably not.

I believe that was 10th as of 2007. Probably much lower on the list now.

155 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:45:10pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

I am just short of excellent, and hope you and everyone else are the same!
A huge part of our problem here is, like Charles pointed out, pensions and health care. We have double and triple dippers into pensions here in numbers that boggle the mind. They put in 20 years in one place, max out there, then move to another post, and collect there, and so on. Our former Senate President, Billy Bulger, whose brother, Whitey, is on the FBI's 10 most wanted list (drug kingpin, serial murderer and all around shitbag, who was protected for decades by his powerful senate president brother) Makes $200,000.00 a year pension. He is referred to as "The corrupt Midget" here. Mass was his own little Duchy. EVERY member of his family was or is on the state payroll, it is not a small family.
This crap is strangling us, and Beacon Hill is willing to do the "doughnut"...zero, to change things. They just keep stealing from us.

156 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:45:14pm

re: #148 HoosierHoops


Oh crap! What year did you sell it? Can I have a million dollars?

157 JacksonTn  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:45:25pm

Oh, California ... if you are still selling and its at discount prices ... I got my eye on a little place around the beach near Pacific Palisades ...

California Soul (Jimmah) ...

158 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:45:36pm

re: #152 albusteve

HA!...booked it

I think I'd like to bring the large one to my kids school BBQ...

159 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:46:14pm

re: #148 HoosierHoops

How could I ever forget..After College I got married and bought a house on Hemlock Street in Napa for 13,700.00..
We sold it when we moved to Indiana...
A house in Napa I paid 13.7 for in 1973..You do the math...
Yea Cali!

that happens everywhere...I paid 15,600 for my first house and sold it for just over fifty grand...in MI

160 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:47:14pm

re: #158 jcm

I think I'd like to bring the large one to my kids school BBQ...

BOOOM!...hot dogs are ready!

161 iLikeCandy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:47:17pm

re: #151 Bobibutu

It would stun everyone to find out the number of Chinese Nationals who already own property in CA. Here on education and work permits (thank you Mr. Sen. Swimmer) who have no intention of staying here in retirement. Just here to plunder as much as possible and then return to their homeland. They work in teams to accomplish their goals.

In a way I don't have a problem with this. Someone might as well get rich off this disaster, and if the Chinese become good capitalists and acquire a taste for property ownership in the bargain, then fine.

162 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:47:46pm

re: #137 albusteve

well then I am an Army of One...get outa the way or do something yourself about it...

Lead on - I'm too old for this crap beyond voting and calling other seniors on their kool aid addictions when they voice them.

You young 'uns are going to have to dig your selves out of this one.

163 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:47:53pm

Well, drcordell waltzed back into the Gitmo thread an hour after the last comment had been posted.

I was fortunate to get he/she within a couple of minutes, as he/she was working down-thread. DAMN, it was fun! Ran right into an ambush!

It's logged out now, and I'm going to sign out and fix supper.

Thanks to DEZes, Buzz and LGoPs!

164 nyc redneck  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:47:57pm

re: #149 albusteve

when it blows it will be epic...better than all the Fourth of July's combined

i'll have my little flag ready to wave.
the common sense of american citizens will bring him down.
his empty rhetoric will be nothing.

165 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:48:01pm

re: #155 CapeCoddah

Hey Cape! You were quoted on Kos! Attributed to me! They said I wasn't classy (but they was talkin' about you).

I'm classy as shit, thank you very fuckin' much!

166 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:49:00pm

re: #160 albusteve

BOOOM!...hot dogs are ready!

We had to have a parent teacher talk about the boys propensity to making a gun out of anything...

167 iLikeCandy  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:49:00pm

re: #162 Bobibutu

Lead on - I'm too old for this crap beyond voting and calling other seniors on their kool aid addictions when they voice them.

You young 'uns are going to have to dig your selves out of this one.

No, we'd rather blame it all on you.

168 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:49:33pm

re: #156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh crap! What year did you sell it? Can I have a million dollars?

Moved to Indiana right before 911..
Hey Veggie!

169 nyc redneck  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:49:57pm

re: #166 jcm

We had to have a parent teacher talk about the boys propensity to making a gun out of anything...

what a great skill. you should be proud.

170 HelloDare  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:50:01pm

Gems from Joe Biden's Wake Forest commencement address.

I've served with eight Presidents. Most Presidents are able to say, of the four or five issues that are before me, I'll put aside three and we'll get to them later, knowing the status quo ante will pertain. There's not a single issue on this President's plate that will not yield a change — just merely by ignoring it, it will change.

And this:

Throughout the span of history though, only a handful of us have been alive at times when we can truly shape history. Without question, this is one of those times, for there's not a single solitary decision confronting your generation now that doesn't yield a change from non-action as well as action.

These are not flubs. [REMARKS BY THE VICE PRESIDENT AT WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY, AS PREPARED]

I quess Obama Messiah's mere presence really is transforming the world.

Wonder what speechwriter, if any, is taking credit for these words. Did Biden write this nonsense?

171 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:50:04pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey Cape! You were quoted on Kos! Attributed to me! They said I wasn't classy (but they was talkin' about you).

I'm classy as shit, thank you very fuckin' much!

KOS calling someone not very classy?!?!

HAHAHAHAHA! That's rich!

172 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:50:14pm

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LOL, Im a star? Whodathunkit? What did the pricks do? Is CapeCoddah easily confused with FBV?...Oh yeas, it is kos.

173 freetoken  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:50:14pm

Beck's denial of the apology of the sin that never was now is being carried by Breitbart.

Beck's crying all the way to the bank.

174 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:50:59pm

Bummer, kos, thinks I am classless! pot... meet kettle.

175 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:51:00pm

re: #162 Bobibutu

Lead on - I'm too old for this crap beyond voting and calling other seniors on their kool aid addictions when they voice them.

You young 'uns are going to have to dig your selves out of this one.

I'm not young...I just refuse to bend to the IRS...they owe me money and I won't even consider helping CA till I get mine back...they can toss me in jail, I don't really give a shit...my kids are adults, I have no debt, and I have a bone to pick...fuck them and CA

176 alegrias  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:51:14pm

re: #30 Charles

One of the biggest expenses: pension-based medical insurance. Many state employees are entitled to medical insurance for life as part of their pensions.

And there are apparently something like 80,000 state employees who make salaries of over $100,000 a year. It's completely out of control; public officials have been feeding at the trough in California for a long time.

* * * *
We should all have Health Savings Accounts and be able to buy health insurance from whomever we want, not whoever the employer chooses.

Get employers out of the health insurance business. Just pay salaries, let people buy their own insurance.

177 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:51:50pm

re: #169 nyc redneck

what a great skill. you should be proud.

In a couple years I intended to start the boys with .22s. Wonder what the teachers will thinking when they bring in a target with a nice tight group for show and tell.

178 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:51:50pm

re: #172 CapeCoddah

Seriously, Cape. Google my nic. You will find a link to a KOS page where they quote you (you were smarting on something that I had said), they printed it as the "Right Wing Classiness of the Week" or somesuch.

179 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:51:53pm

re: #166 jcm

We had to have a parent teacher talk about the boys propensity to making a gun out of anything...

oh gawd...good boys...potato cannon!...get DOWN!

180 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:52:06pm

re: #87 albusteve

Not sure. Depends on what the consequences of not doing it are. If California's bankruptcy or something like shutting down their prison system will effect the rest of the company or screw up the national economy then we have to do it. This might be a situation like AIG; we might have to prop them up and sort out their mess.

181 NelsFree  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:52:32pm

Hello Folks,

I was happily skipping through the threads, casting upding after upding for all the positive thoughts and clever puns. Gold ore puns and now winery puns. Such a spirited thread!

182 Racer X  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:52:32pm

I love L.A.!

Go Lakers!

183 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:53:19pm

re: #179 albusteve

I heard once that a potato cannon through a mesh is how they slice mcdonald's fries. Is that right? Would be really cool to see one.

184 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:53:27pm

re: #159 albusteve

that happens everywhere...I paid 15,600 for my first house and sold it for just over fifty grand...in MI

I'm sure everyone does. Some people make 3/4 of a million dollars from a sale..Lucky people. Are you alright? I'm not picking a fight with you..

185 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:53:31pm

re: #179 albusteve

oh gawd...good boys...potato cannon!...get DOWN!

I'm thinking a trebuchet on the fort this summer.

186 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:53:40pm

re: #170 HelloDare

Gems from Joe Biden's Wake Forest commencement address.

These are not flubs. [REMARKS BY THE VICE PRESIDENT AT WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY, AS PREPARED]

I quess Obama Messiah's mere presence really is transforming the world.

Wonder what speechwriter, if any, is taking credit for these words. Did Biden write this nonsense?

What's so strange about the speech? We already know Biden can't talk. This is just his usual inarticulate spewing of hopychange.

187 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:53:42pm

re: #164 nyc redneck

i'll have my little flag ready to wave.
the common sense of american citizens will bring him down.
his empty rhetoric will be nothing.

I'll be first in line to sock him...he will fail, I have no doubt

188 IslandLibertarian  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:53:49pm
189 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:54:39pm

re: #173 freetoken

Beck's denial of the apology of the sin that never was now is being carried by Breitbart.

Beck's crying all the way to the bank.

yep

190 JacksonTn  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:54:58pm

Anyone know if any red states are having a bankruptcy sale? ... just wondering ... I mean isn't Mississippi suppose to be one of those "backwards red states" with the most poverty? ... are they bankrupt? ... California ... what are you doing wrong? I mean don't you have some of richest people there? ... all those rich actors ... come on ... you can do it ... pull yourself up ...

/I don't feel good about paying more taxes to bail them ... if it comes to that ... more backyard holes ...

191 DEZes  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:55:15pm

Gonna bail, have a great one Lizards.

192 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:55:38pm

re: #177 jcm

In a couple years I intended to start the boys with .22s. Wonder what the teachers will thinking when they bring in a target with a nice tight group for show and tell.

The teacher would call the police. I'm not kidding, they'd say the kid was making a threat and have arrested and then they'd go after the parent. Most schools come down hard on any reference to guns.

193 HelloDare  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:55:50pm

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

What's so strange about the speech? We already know Biden can't talk. This is just his usual inarticulate spewing of hopychange.

This wasn't off-the-cuff drivel. This was a prepared speech. That's the difference.

194 NelsFree  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:56:17pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've always thought we should combine some states. VT, NH, ME should be a state. CT, MA, RI. FL,GA. MD,DE,PA. VA,NC,SC. OH, WV,KY...ETC.

The Federalist Papers mentions the advantages and disadvantages of a Confederation of four groups of the original 13 colonies in comparison to a Republic of all 13. It is sad that we are bringing this up again, after 222 years.

195 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:56:24pm

Glenn Beck, Ben Stein and Mark Sanford. What could go wrong?
Sanford calls Beck's latest paranoia a "conspiracy theory"

Beck and Stein think this is a secret plan to end state's rights.

196 The Other Les  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:56:40pm

re: #6 Kobalt

Dont understand why. Do Californians prefer a govn't shutdown? Things in that beautiful state will deteriorate FAST...

It's not really a government when the major office holders cannot or will not understand the distinction between governance and brigandage.

This has to change. Now.

197 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:56:56pm

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

The selection of Biden makes more sense each day. I (more than once) wished that Cheney could take the reins. And I am not the only one who wished the same.

Obama does not have that problem. And he won't have that problem.

198 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:56:57pm

re: #178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

199 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:57:43pm

FBV, this one...?
Michelle is SOOO photogenic, Huh? What a scary woman. Looks like a bouncer whose underwear are a tad too tight.
---Commenter "Fat Bastard Vegetarian" at Little Green Footballs

LOL, On my birthday, too!

200 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:57:46pm

re: #198 CapeCoddah

What?

201 offendi  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:57:54pm

Damn this is depressing news !

I had hoped Lord Obama would select David Patterson the Governor of New York to run Chrysler, sparing the many residents of the Empire State their continuing affliction with his questionable competency.

But now it looks like Arnold might have a shot at it too.

Nothing like failing upwards!

202 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:58:12pm

re: #199 CapeCoddah

yeppers! ding ding ding!

203 The Other Les  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:58:20pm

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

Time to start nosing around Sutter's Mill to see if there are any scraps of gold left over from '49.

Not bloody likely.

New particles of gold dust may have accumulated in the subsequent time though.

204 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:58:37pm

re: #199 CapeCoddah

Drove me nuts too. I just didn't remember saying that.

205 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:58:38pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

Not sure. Depends on what the consequences of not doing it are. If California's bankruptcy or something like shutting down their prison system will effect the rest of the company or screw up the national economy then we have to do it. This might be a situation like AIG; we might have to prop them up and sort out their mess.

I live by my own rules...it is not prudent for others and you need to protect yourself...I understand...we are all in it together to a certain extent but I draw my own lines and pay the price...I always have...I will be very disappointed at a knee jerk resolution to toss billions to the states...where will it end?...someone has to suffer and it's not me

206 IslandLibertarian  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:58:44pm
207 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:59:15pm

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

yeppers! ding ding ding!

ROFLMAO! Love it!
Sorry you got tagged for it, but what do you expect from complete morons?

208 jcm  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:59:45pm

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

The teacher would call the police. I'm not kidding, they'd say the kid was making a threat and have arrested and then they'd go after the parent. Most schools come down hard on any reference to guns.

No kidding.

*sigh*

I remember the rifle club. High schoolers bring rifles and hanging them in lockers. Course every pickup in parking lot had a gun rack with rifle and shotgun.

209 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 5:59:53pm

re: #207 CapeCoddah

I just knew it would make yer dress fly up!

210 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:00:01pm

re: #184 HoosierHoops

I'm sure everyone does. Some people make 3/4 of a million dollars from a sale..Lucky people. Are you alright? I'm not picking a fight with you..

I'm fine...my beef is with the feds, as usual

211 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:00:26pm

re: #175 albusteve

I'm not young...I just refuse to bend to the IRS...they owe me money and I won't even consider helping CA till I get mine back...they can toss me in jail, I don't really give a shit...my kids are adults, I have no debt, and I have a bone to pick...fuck them and CA

Good luck - seriously. I went up against them oh - some years ago - still think I was right ... they have unlimited resources and power to grind one down - right or wrong.

212 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:00:41pm

re: #209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just knew it would make yer dress fly up!

LOL, It would if I wore dresses... I even got married in hiking boots!

213 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:01:17pm

Cleveland is stomping a mudhole in the ass of Orlando right now. This is going to be UUUgly.

214 The Other Les  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:01:22pm

re: #22 ladycatnip

I listened to John and Ken on the way home from work and they were playing clips of the CA lawmakers...most arrogant, idiotic, thick-headed people we've elected. The first lady lawmaker intoned that there was "voter fatigue" - that we were tired and confused. The more clips they played the more angry I got at these morons who are running California into the ground.

Yes, leftoid politicians are arrogant.

And for God's sake don't ever call one a looter to their face. They will retaliate.

215 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:01:49pm

re: #185 jcm

I'm thinking a trebuchet on the fort this summer.

heavy caliber pumpkins...fear the Orange!

216 freetoken  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:02:09pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

Stein is to Beck what Ed McMahon was to Johnny Carson.

217 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:02:47pm

re: #212 CapeCoddah

I've been waiting over a month to tell you about it. Never here when you were.

218 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:02:49pm

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

The teacher would call the police. I'm not kidding, they'd say the kid was making a threat and have arrested and then they'd go after the parent. Most schools come down hard on any reference to guns.

fight back

219 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:03:10pm

re: #147 jcm

Should I fire up the small BBQ or the large one?

DEZ, pBMb and I need to buy some carbon credit offsets...
Just a smoking hunk of charcoal left over there...
:)

220 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:03:38pm

re: #208 jcm

No kidding.

*sigh*

I remember the rifle club. High schoolers bring rifles and hanging them in lockers. Course every pickup in parking lot had a gun rack with rifle and shotgun.

Those were the days, back before assholes started going on killing sprees in schools. Scumbags are always ruining things for other people.

221 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:03:46pm

re: #210 albusteve

I'm fine...my beef is with the feds, as usual

Good..Sometimes i say flippant statements out of fun...Sometimes it comes across wrong.

222 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:04:40pm

re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've been waiting over a month to tell you about it. Never here when you were.

I have not been on for a while... work has been crazy for about 6 weeks now.

223 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:05:06pm

re: #218 albusteve

fight back

If you fought back, you'd just lose. The rules and the law would be on the school's side. Best for your kid to not bring up his riflery at all and avoid the issue.

224 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:05:21pm

I appreciate it, funny stuff!
And Kos, if you are watching... I was being kind to MO

225 Zimriel  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:05:29pm

re: #194 NelsFree

The Federalist Papers mentions the advantages and disadvantages of a Confederation of four groups of the original 13 colonies in comparison to a Republic of all 13. It is sad that we are bringing this up again, after 222 years.

Really? Several of the original states were poorly designed. There was never any way New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Delaware could hope for population parity with, say, Virginia. New Jersey for its part has proven to be a structural Failed State; New York City yanks it around.

And since then we've added mountain desert states like Wyoming and Idaho which, again, were never about to gain a population up to par.

We need to redraw the map. California, the topic here, could be split into two or three states.

226 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:06:09pm

re: #211 Bobibutu

Good luck - seriously. I went up against them oh - some years ago - still think I was right ... they have unlimited resources and power to grind one down - right or wrong.

I've gone around with them several time...even incarcerated...what a bunch of morons, most of them sympathized with me...tossing somebody in jail over a financial dispute is bad PR and they know it

227 The Other Les  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:06:11pm

re: #48 freetoken

Yeah. I posted earlier about how state (and some local) employment in California is a more lucrative job than Federal employees. The retirement programs set up in many local and state government concerns are very very lucrative, and IMO totally irresponsible (since they can't be maintained.)

The lady in charge of hiring for the Minnesota Department of Transportation said that the State of Minnesota (ya know, the government) is the biggest employer in the State of Minnesota. She said this as if this was a good thing.

228 Zimriel  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:07:07pm

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

The teacher would call the police. I'm not kidding, they'd say the kid was making a threat and have arrested and then they'd go after the parent. Most schools come down hard on any reference to guns.

And that is why boys are disproportionately dropping out of school.

229 carefulnow  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:07:17pm

re: #225 Zimriel

Split California in three? Are you serious? Add even more government?

230 quickjustice  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:07:24pm

Now that the voters of California have spoken, Obama and the Congress will bail out California anyway. As for federalism, i.e., the system of a single federal government and 50 separate state governments, you can kiss that goodbye as the feds go for complete fiscal control of the bankrupt states.

231 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:07:54pm

re: #225 Zimriel

We've let CA get "Too big to fail".

232 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:08:14pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

If you fought back, you'd just lose. The rules and the law would be on the school's side. Best for your kid to not bring up his riflery at all and avoid the issue.

then lose...it's better than being pushed around by the people that work for you...I'm a loser, I know

233 carefulnow  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:08:20pm

re: #227 The Other Les

We have the same thing here. Our county government is the largest employer. And we're only a million people.

234 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:08:51pm

re: #230 quickjustice

Michael Moore for Governor!
(do I have to?)

235 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:09:08pm

re: #221 HoosierHoops

Good..Sometimes i say flippant statements out of fun...Sometimes it comes across wrong.

well I've certainly never done that

236 quickjustice  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:10:40pm

Public employee labor unions have proven themselves fiscally ruinous to state governments both in California and in New York, grabbing control of all branches of government. A serious politician needs to begin advocating for their decertification. Unionization of public employees is an experiment that has failed miserably and ruinously.

237 itellu3times  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:11:10pm

re: #6 Kobalt

Dont understand why. Do Californians prefer a govn't shutdown? Things in that beautiful state will deteriorate FAST...

Stop making sense.

The general pattern here is that we need more pain, before real fixes will happen. This is pain-seeking behavior, and is in its own perverse way, healthy.

/oy what a country

238 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:11:47pm

re: #229 carefulnow

Split California in three? Are you serious? Add even more government?

For a million years we have discussed splitting Northern California and Southern California into 2 states..We 'hate each other' in a brother and sister way..Good natured..But really we can't stand LA up north..
There will never ever be a split in the state..All the water comes from NorCal..
In California ..Water drives politics...Right Charles?
:)

239 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:12:04pm

re: #221 HoosierHoops

You still here?

240 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:12:37pm

re: #239 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You still here?

Yup..It's basketball season!

241 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:12:47pm

re: #238 HoosierHoops

I guess that means yes. You watching the game? This is gonna be bad.

"Imagine a twinkie..."

242 The Other Les  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:14:20pm

re: #139 jcm

Doctors wear name tags...

;-P

A lot of manual laborers don't wear name tags.

243 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:14:21pm

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

misquoted, but you get it...

244 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:14:48pm

re: #226 albusteve

I've gone around with them several time...even incarcerated...what a bunch of morons, most of them sympathized with me...tossing somebody in jail over a financial dispute is bad PR and they know it

IRS employees remind me of the TSA workers - too much power and authority to folks unable to make it in the business community or just about anywhere else for that matter.

245 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:15:16pm

if people are not willing to take a stand, then govt will swallow you up and shit you out like so many Twinkies...take a hit sometime...give back as good as they give you...it's OUR country..whrn you are scared of your credit report, or what you neighbors think or affraid to defy the IRS then you are just another drooler than can only talk on a blog...do SOMETHING for yourself...anything

246 carefulnow  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:15:53pm
247 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:16:20pm

Going to friends to watch Idol. DVR'ing it...

FBV Out!

248 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:17:03pm

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I guess that means yes. You watching the game? This is gonna be bad.

"Imagine a twinkie..."

Who will stop or deny King James the crown this year..Who among you?
Is there any soul?
I can't wait till Kode takes a charge on a 270 lb James coming down the lane at 4.4 speed in the air ..in a rage...And he steps in front of him...
I can't wait

249 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:17:05pm

re: #238 HoosierHoops

Water drives politics...

In the near future, wars will be fought over water.

250 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:17:48pm

nite FBV, you made my day!

251 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:18:05pm

re: #249 Bobibutu

In the near future, wars will be fought over water.

Water or oil my friend

252 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:18:43pm

re: #232 albusteve

then lose...it's better than being pushed around by the people that work for you...I'm a loser, I know

On that, I cannot agree. I'd rather be pushed around than catch a police investigation. To borrow from the the Wyclef Jean song; I'll take the humilation, "cause 25-to-life is no joke." Self-respect is not worth a criminal charge, IMO.

253 quickjustice  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:18:50pm

re: #238 HoosierHoops

As in "Chinatown", starring Jack Nicholson.

254 Long Nics are Looonnng  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:19:03pm

re: #250 CapeCoddah

Then my work here is finished.

re: #248 HoosierHoops

Kobe will be spoon fed for the next year if that happens. Just sayin.

255 The Other Les  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:20:14pm

re: #233 carefulnow

We have the same thing here. Our county government is the largest employer. And we're only a million people.

Where?

256 LGoPs  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:20:42pm

Later lizards.

257 CapeCoddah  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:21:40pm

nite LGoPs

258 albusteve  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:23:30pm

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

On that, I cannot agree. I'd rather be pushed around than catch a police investigation. To borrow from the the Wyclef Jean song; I'll take the humilation, "cause 25-to-life is no joke." Self-respect is not worth a criminal charge, IMO.

taking a target to school full of holes needs to be challenged...if you don't do it I hope someone else will

259 Bob Dillon  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:24:54pm

re: #251 HoosierHoops

Water or oil my friend

Yeppers - but oil we can live without.

[Link: www.globalpolicy.org...]

As demand for water hits the limits of finite supply, potential conflicts are brewing between nations that share transboundary freshwater reserves. More than 50 countries on five continents might soon be caught up in water disputes unless they move quickly to establish agreements on how to share reservoirs, rivers, and underground water acquifers. The articles and analysis below examine international water disputes, civil disturbances caused by water shortages, and potential regulatory solutions to diffuse water conflict.

260 The Hoopster  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:26:19pm

re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Then my work here is finished.

re: #248 HoosierHoops

Kobe will be spoon fed for the next year if that happens. Just sayin.

I remember watching James in High School on a couple ESPN specials..I remember thing to myself.. This man is a player..Athletic..smooth..High BB IQ..Talent off the frigging scales..I love him as a player..and as a person..

261 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:26:59pm
262 jorline  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:28:34pm

California...the poster child for liberal democracy is broke.

Mega dings for all of you who voted no!

263 NelsFree  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:28:37pm

re: #245 albusteve

if people are not willing to take a stand, then govt will swallow you up and shit you out like so many Twinkies.

I shall NEVER eat another Twinkie!

...take a hit sometime...give back as good as they give you...it's OUR country..whrn you are scared of your credit report, or what you neighbors think or affraid to defy the IRS then you are just another drooler than can only talk on a blog...do SOMETHING for yourself...anything

We must consider what the Colonists were thinking as the Redcoats lined up in Boston against them. What were they willing to sacrifice for freedom!? Are we of today no less worthy of noble effort?
What can we do on the 4th of July?

264 carefulnow  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:30:26pm

re: #255 The Other Les

I need to retract my statement that the county here is the largest employer. I checked and I was wrong.

It just feels that way...mumble

265 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:30:48pm

re: #36 Steve

Unfortunately this tax and tax and tax and tax and spendis finding its way into Washington State.

That is because there is a considerable chunk of Californians who fled the extreme taxation that think WA needs to replicate what they left, getting taxed to death.

266 carefulnow  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:31:56pm

re: #261 Iron Fist

How it reminds me of the '70s. We lived through that inflation...

267 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:33:53pm
268 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:36:27pm

re: #267 Iron Fist

I was a kid, but I remember "stagflation". I'd like to keep that a memory in the distant past, but I'm afraid I'm going to get to experience it for an extended period of time.

This time around the spending is such that the 70's stagflation will seem like prosperity in comparison. In many respects this is just a replay of Carter, but magnified a billion-fold.

269 huckfunn  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:42:12pm

California Leads the List of Sanctuary Cities

Could health care, education, housing and inmate management of millions of illegals be part of the problem? Aw, just kidding...

270 solomonpanting  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:42:34pm

Oh California
The Liberlas fool
with the best laid plans.
Swing low California
You got no spare change
You got to feel strange
And now the payments
Become deliquent.

California, you got
the debt on your shoulders
That's breaking your back.
Your welfare checks
have got a foot on your neck
And a knife in your back.

Oh California
High taxes
put you on your ass.
Illegals down in California.
Read the old laws
makes one give pause
Hear the wailin'.
Don't you feel like bailin'?

California, you got
The debt on your shoulders
That's breaking your back.
Your welfare checks
Have got a foot on your neck
And a knife in your back.

Oh California.
Can I help you
and lend a hand.
Make friends down in California
I'm from a new land
I come to you
And see all this ruin
What are you doing California?
You got the rest of the union
To help you along
What's going wrong?

(Thanks to Neil Young)

271 carefulnow  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:46:21pm
272 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:47:53pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've always thought we should combine some states. VT, NH, ME should be a state. CT, MA, RI. FL,GA. MD,DE,PA. VA,NC,SC. OH, WV,KY...ETC.

Hell no! I would fight and kill and die to keep Kentucky from merging with any other state.

273 grahamski  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:51:39pm

Proud to say one of those votes was mine...Now it's time to vote the bums out!

274 abolitionist  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:53:09pm

re: #229 carefulnow

Split California in three? Are you serious? Add even more government?

Six US senators instead of two?

275 Canard51  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:56:26pm

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Tytler

"Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage." Disraeli


America is so screwed!

276 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:57:54pm

No need to split it into multiple states. Just whack off the good part, east of those mountains that are east of LA, and give the LA side to China as payment in full on our debt to them.

Closing that wretched border with Rexico would help a lot.

277 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 6:59:39pm

re: #275 Canard51
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government..."
Tyler

F%$# tyler and the horse he road in on.

278 Dr. Shalit  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:01:16pm

Everyone -

The Tab is ONLY 47 Billion. California is Rich in resources and Human Capital. With a determined effort and Common Sense, California will work its way out of its "Hole" - without it - California - Like My State of NJ - may well become a WARD of The Federal Government. That is all.

-S-

279 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:02:35pm

re: #271 carefulnow

What if California could declare bankruptcy?

if California is declared bankrupt, can we action off Nancy Pelosi to cover the debts?

///

280 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:02:55pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

if California is declared bankrupt, can we auction off Nancy Pelosi to cover the debts?

///

PIMF

281 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:07:36pm
282 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:14:27pm

re: #281 Iron Fist

I wouldn't give you $.50 for her. And I am so resisting the temptation to say what is the only thing I think she'd be good for...

I doubt she'd bring much money in to the State as a whore.

283 [deleted]  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:20:07pm
284 kynna  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:33:11pm

They could let go 2 or 40 or their unnecessary permanent office help.

They could consider some of the many men and women imprisoned without possibility of parole for parole. Maybe commute some of the more outrageous sentences. (prosecutors in this state can be as bad as Nifong at times -- only they win more)

They could cut taxes for businesses, lure some jobs back to the state.

They could do a lot of things they absolutely won't do. Instead they'll threaten to cut jobs for teachers and cops.

But apparently Arnold had a nice play date with Obama. Probably learning the workarounds for the citizenry.

285 justdanny  Wed, May 20, 2009 7:39:09pm

Californ i a needs an enema.

286 wiffersnapper  Wed, May 20, 2009 8:03:04pm

Forget getting out of the hole they've dug, California should just keep digging until they get to China.

287 Macker  Wed, May 20, 2009 8:14:05pm

I'm surprised no one posted the most apropos response from the California Voters to Ah-nold and the Demo☭rats:

FUCK YOU, ASSHOLES!

288 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 20, 2009 8:27:47pm

The state will just save money by not buying hoses for the fire department or gasoline for police squad cars. This will bring about a huge emergency, and Federal Aid will come to the Rescue.

Why should good Democrats pay for their own folly generous but necessary benefits when federal tax dollars collected from wicked tax cheating (Geithners) Republicans can pick up the slack?

289 voluble  Wed, May 20, 2009 8:30:26pm

California might want to look at parts of their government that don't exist in other states (or that did not exist twenty years ago in CA itself). I would bet there are whole departments that the rest of the country gets along just fine without.

We experienced this sort of malaise during the Carter years but it will be ten times worse this go around because a war is being waged on businesses all across the country and demographics trends are about to start bearing fruit. We are feeding at both end of the trough as we destroy the engines that produce wealth while simultaneously draining off the output of those engines. There is no where to hide. These are the man-made disasters that we already know are coming;

Social Security bankruptcy

Medicare bankruptcy

State bankruptcies such as CA

Municipal bankruptcies as they try to fund their pension and health plans

Mortgage industry bankruptcy part II since everything is being done to re-inflate the bubble that just burst without changing the root cause

Health Industry bankruptcy as the government does for that industry what it just did for the mortgage industry --- guaranteeing service regardless of ability to pay

Auto industry bankruptcy

Energy industry bankruptcies

Once all of the bail-outs are done and the proper constituencies have been rewarded with other people's money for voting the proper way there will be only be three possible ways to handle the debt that is incurred; inflation, taxation or repudiation of the debt. Every single one of these will be absolutely brutal on the average guy who has worked hard and done the right things all of his life only to see the entire country driven to ruin to pay for those who have not been responsible.

In as much as Obama can be said to have a philosophy about anything, it can best be described as --- punish success and do everything possible to make sure it doesn't happen again while rewarding failure and government dependency. This is the means through which power is attained. If you think that is too cynical then look at the architects of the mortgage fiasco and see if any of them were actually voted out of office this last go around. Quite the opposite actually...

290 Ateam  Wed, May 20, 2009 8:41:52pm

re: #415 american sabra

quote: "No one saved the Jews yet many Jews indeed were saved. Today Jews and Christians have good relations and whatever I personally think about the complicity of those in the past, I'm happy with our relations today."

About 6.7 millions Jews were murder during WWII. 90% off the whole population among EU countries at that times of trouble. Most through death camps, gas chambers. We, the third generation, remembered it like it happened only yesterday. Regardless who is the POTUS. Not trusting any gentiles to help us. Only us to ourselves. As show-en in our battles against Arabs during the last 7 decades.

we don't ask you to intervene. Nor to help. Just stay away from our interests.
understanding your needs for energy. Not in our right to live. Like Orlando beats CLE 1ft. playoffs games.

(just doing the right thing to maintaining our course in life)

291 Rexatosis  Wed, May 20, 2009 9:02:45pm

If Calif. thinks it is getting a bail out from the rest of country they are mistaken. We is broke (at least here in the overtaxed Northeast).

292 Maui Girl  Wed, May 20, 2009 9:06:12pm

So, out of curiousity, does anyone have a wild guess as to what the illegal immigrants living in California cost that state in education, welfare/social programs and health care every year? Does anyone think that perhaps dealing with illegals might have an impact on state government spending? How about the fact that something as simple as the "lunch programs" in public schools that educate illegals also provide those lunches to the relatives of those illegal students. Anyone can go have a free lunch at most of the public schools in California if you have a member of the family attending school there.

No green card? No free lunch!

293 muddywood  Wed, May 20, 2009 9:08:45pm

Who is a national executive board member of the SEIU?

Class?
Anyone?
Anyone?

Wayne Rathke the founder or A.C.O.R.N.

Doesn't fall far from the tree, does it.

I smell massive corruption using our tax dollars to fund the leftist takeover of the government and the economy.
And nobody in government is investigating this.

294 Canoe Train  Wed, May 20, 2009 9:15:20pm

re: #20 calcajun
You want to experience surfing that is, *ahem,* "interesting and entertaining," ? Attempt surfing in Lake Superior during the "Ides" of November and December. The waves might not be as tall as those off the Pacific Coast, but they will give you a challenge, nonetheless.

295 Canoe Train  Wed, May 20, 2009 9:16:16pm

I should also type that I hope the voter's will is done in CA's case.

296 jordash1212  Wed, May 20, 2009 9:16:19pm

re: #7 LGoPs

California needs to learn how to live within its means. Just like I do.

It doesn't just affect people. It affects institutions. As a student at UCSB, it affects my education. Professors and staff are being laid off. On top of this year's 20% budget cut, faculties have been told to prepare for another 20% cut next year. Staff positions that have people retiring aren't going to be filled. Sure, the school could manage its money better, but there are money things this school does right. Instead of paying for extra energy, we maximize solar energy, geo-thermal energy, etc. We also recycle water and irrigate it in order to keep the campus green and beautiful. It's a shame to see $6 billion possibly be removed from public education because of other failed policies like the penitentiary system. Can someone tell me why we haven't deported these thousands of arrested illegal immigrants yet and why I'm paying for their housing and food inside a state penitentiary? It's silly things like this that Gov. Schwarzenegger needs to solve instead of making broad-based cuts.

297 the historian  Wed, May 20, 2009 9:20:24pm

re: #4 JammieWearingFool

Hopefully all hell doesn't break loose until after my vacation out there this summer.

/

Make sure to drop in and say hello when you're here!

298 purple  Thu, May 21, 2009 5:14:19am

I'm afraid that I didn't make it to the polls for this one. I got fed up with SoCal and moved away in the early part of May. If they manage to straighten out the problems I'd love to go back and visit, it's a beautiful area. I got tired of the fact that you cant cross the street and buy a hotdog from a man without 16 regulations and taxes to interfere in the transaction. Unless, of course, the man selling the hotdog is in the country illegally and has a history of violence.

299 ihateronpaul  Thu, May 21, 2009 5:28:00am

re: #282 unrealizedviewpoint

are rather sick comments like that really needed in this discussion?

300 Yashmak  Thu, May 21, 2009 7:04:01am

re: #291 Rexatosis

If Calif. thinks it is getting a bail out from the rest of country they are mistaken. We is broke (at least here in the overtaxed Northeast).

Yeah, but Ahnold will likely get it anyway.

At any rate, I'm proud to have done my part voting these horrible measures down in Cali, just as I've voted no on every increased spending measure for the past four elections.

301 Pupdawg  Thu, May 21, 2009 8:01:44am

When will the other 56 states wake up?

/sarc + bliss = Obamaite!


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 Frank says:

And all the rest of whom for which to whensoever of partially indeterminate bio-chemical degredation. Seek the path to the sudsy yellow nozzle of their foaming nocturnal parametric digital whole-wheat inter-faith geo-thermal terpsichorean ejectamenta. -- From board tape at Zappa concert, outdoors, at Blossom Music Center, Akron, Ohio, summer 1984. This quote was in the middle of a spoken section of "The Mud Club" in which a dude walks into the club with a blue Mohawk and proceeds to "work the floor, work the wall, work the monitor system. . . ." The band was having monitor feedback problems at the Blossom concert, and there are numerous references to P.A. equipment throughout this ramble. Other than that, the quote is meaningless, I guess. But great imagery!