Terrorists Returning to Terrorism - Who'da Thunk?

Terrorists Returning to Terrorism - Who’da Thunk?

WorldMay 2009 • Views: 1,861

I hope you’re sitting down, because one in 7 who leave Guantanamo are involved in terrorism.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Seventy-four, or one out of every seven, terrorism suspects formerly held at the U.S. detention site at Guantanamo Bay are confirmed or suspected of having returned to terrorism, the Pentagon said on Tuesday.

Of more than 530 detainees transferred from the U.S. base in Cuba, 27 are confirmed and 47 suspected of “reengaging in terrorist activity,” according to a written Pentagon summary.

The total of 74 has more than doubled since May 2007, when the Pentagon said about 30 had gone back to terrorist activity, and increased slightly since January, when the figure stood at 61.

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172 comments

zombie Wed, May 27, 2009 11:44:18am

Close Gitmo!

Because we need more fodder for the coming Revolution!

Leonidas Hoplite Wed, May 27, 2009 11:44:39am

Don't worry, this won't be widely reported in the MSM so won't reach The One's copious ears - GITMO will close on time...except, you know, if it suddenly becomes inconvenient.

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 11:45:21am

Sharmuta Wed, May 27, 2009 11:46:14am

Something about leopards not changing their spots......

dhg4 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:46:27am

I guess that means that those Saudi deprogramming classes are not 100% foolproof.

Leonidas Hoplite Wed, May 27, 2009 11:46:40am

On the bright side, it seems a little Caribbean vacation put the zap on the other six!

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 11:46:41am

Not if I were in charge of things.

Sharmuta Wed, May 27, 2009 11:47:03am

re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

You have to stick with what you know.

We should have provided them with job training, so they could try another field of employment.

Idle Drifter Wed, May 27, 2009 11:47:15am

Don't worry they were just tourists in the middle of a war torn country.

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 11:47:38am

Only one in seven?!
Sounds like the Recruitment Tool isn't doing its job.
Close it down!

//////

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 11:48:08am

brookly red Wed, May 27, 2009 11:48:22am

and the other 6?

turn Wed, May 27, 2009 11:48:26am

Send them to Saudi Arabia for retraining, yeah like that will work. This close gitmo mantra from the left is insane, oh did I say from the left? figures.

dhg4 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:48:29am

You think that's why European countries aren't exactly leaping at the chance to accept released prisoners?

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 11:48:36am

Hmmmm, you are getting sleepy....

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:48:56am

I've never understood the Mantra that GITMO is causing more people to become terrorists.

Your sitting in the middle east and say to yourself, "you know, if I just go blow something up, maybe I'll get to go to GITMO!"

Akin to sayng the spectre of going to prison causes more B&E's

JammieWearingFool Wed, May 27, 2009 11:49:07am

This is news? We knew this about a year ago.

Man, the media is really lagging behind the blogs.

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 11:49:22am

dhg4 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:49:31am

Hopefully some of them picked up cycling in prison.

JammieWearingFool Wed, May 27, 2009 11:49:53am

Six out of seven wind up as community organizers.

KenJen Wed, May 27, 2009 11:49:54am

"They pissed on my Koran so I had to keeeel them."/

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 11:49:57am

re: #10 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Only one in seven?!
Sounds like the Recruitment Tool isn't doing its job.
Close it down!

//////

Maybe we can get the CIA and NSA to fund them again as they did the Mujahadeen during the Soviet-Afghan war.

/ is it sarcasm or is it memorex?

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:50:00am

re: #17 JammieWearingFool

This is news? We knew this about a year ago.

Man, the media is really lagging behind the blogs.

Bush was the President a year ago
A republican had a shot at being president a year ago
Obama is the president NOW

YOU do the math!

debutaunt Wed, May 27, 2009 11:50:26am

re: #10 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Only one in seven?!
Sounds like the Recruitment Tool isn't doing its job.
Close it down!

//////

Are the other six out of seven manning the phones?

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 11:50:27am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

I thought that was spelled "tourorists."

That's Qaida stretch.

sngnsgt Wed, May 27, 2009 11:50:44am

They must not have been happy with the retirement program.

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:20am

re: #23 sattv4u2

Bush was the President a year ago
A republican had a shot at being president a year ago
Obama is the president NOW

YOU do the math!

And when will the inevitable chant of the "Bush's fault" mantra start?

Desert Dog Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:30am

re: #25 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That's Qaida stretch.

Hudna known they would go back to Jihad? Not me, I am floored to hear the news.

Sharmuta Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:30am

Yes- it's clear to me now Gitmo needs a job training program, along with comprehensive sensitivity training.... for the prison guards. ///

lawhawk Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:36am

re: #4 Sharmuta

Zebras and stripes.

Indeed, this should be troubling to anyone who thinks that releasing all those detainees held at Gitmo will not come at a tremendous cost to US national security. Far from making us appear more friendly and likable, the jihadis will see this as a sign of weakness that we refuse to incarcerate jihadis who seek death of Americans at every opportunity. The jihadis will continue to exploit this situation, even after Gitmo is closed, since the US has to put these people somewhere.

How exactly does releasing terrorists into the wild improve US national security. Gen. Petraeus noted yesterday that we need a responsible policy for closing Gitmo. We still need one as the Administration has abdicated on that responsibility and Congress kicked it right back to the President to deal with. It's a political time bomb, and no one wants it going off in their face, so they do the Potomac two-step and hope that no one notices that no one is actually leading.

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:40am

re: #27 FurryOldGuyJeans

And when will the inevitable chant of the "Bush's fault" mantra start?

2001 !

brookly red Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:41am

re: #8 Sharmuta

We should have provided them with job training, so they could try another field of employment.

That can work with "common" criminals, I am not so sure that these folks want to try something else. I could be wrong.

calcajun Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:47am

Look at the bright side--the recidivism rate among terrorists is lower than among many other criminal types.//

Ben Hur Wed, May 27, 2009 11:51:54am

Sigh.

This is new?

Why do the Americans insist on ignoring Israel's experiences and expertise?

This has been going on for decades.

America is not re-inventing the wheel in its War of Terror.

There hasn't been one "revelation" that hasn't happened already elsewhere.

Please stop going to the mall.

Actually, keep going to the mall, it's good for the economy.

zombie Wed, May 27, 2009 11:52:06am

Seriously, read the communist theorists, they recommend "anti-prison" movements for the very purpose of letting out all the violent criminals -- who can then be recruited as leaders for the Revolution -- ones who luckily lack any moral rudder. That why people like Bernardine Dohrn advocate to "shut down the prison-industrial complex" -- because it's seen as a way to energize the radical left with thousands of newly freed amoral anti-authoritarian recruits.

What applies to domestic criminals applies to international terrorists too. I'm 100% convinced that's the motivation underlying the Left's obsession with closing Gitmo. They want the inmates to return to terrorism.

Rexatosis Wed, May 27, 2009 11:52:06am

What? Didn't the cookies and warm milk melt their Grinch-sized hearts?/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 11:53:03am

One of the problems with the design at Guantanamo was that they did not properly isolate the prisoners from one another, and thus a social dynamic of hating America, hating soldiers, and being a religious extremist grew amongst even the prisoners who were not Al-Qaeda members in the first place.

Similar to normal prison, if you are innocent when you go in, you will often learn to think and act like a criminal by the time you are out.

Honestly I think that we should have simply held them in isolated units of a supermax facility. If we can trust our domestic prisons to hold Ted Bundy and other serial killers, they can hold these guys. They're not supermen.

Sharmuta Wed, May 27, 2009 11:53:05am

re: #32 brookly red

That can work with "common" criminals, I am not so sure that these folks want to try something else. I could be wrong.

I was making a joke. Trying to think like a progressive.

Raven1 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:53:14am

Take no prisoners!

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 11:53:51am

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama will meet Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah in Riyadh next week to seek his support over the nuclear standoff with Iran and reviving the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

Obama will visit Riyadh on June 3 in a surprise addition to his scheduled three-day trip to Egypt, Germany and France, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Tuesday.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 11:54:48am

This was reported last week before Obama gave his speech on closing Gitmo. Most of the media ignored it then. I wonder why they're running the story again?

Honorary Yooper Wed, May 27, 2009 11:55:03am

re: #8 Sharmuta

We should have provided them with job training, so they could try another field of employment.

Knowing who these twerps are, I sadly suspect they'd use that knowledge to further perpetrate acts of terror.

lawhawk Wed, May 27, 2009 11:55:11am

re: #34 Ben Hur

How long before America has its own Gilad Shalit - terrorists taking US soldiers hostage for purposes of releasing terrorists from Gitmo? I'm surprised someone at AQ central hadn't thought of that possibility.

zombie Wed, May 27, 2009 11:55:13am

re: #40 Nevergiveup

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama will meet Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah in Riyadh next week to seek his support over the nuclear standoff with Iran and reviving the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

Obama will visit Riyadh on June 3 in a surprise addition to his scheduled three-day trip to Egypt, Germany and France, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Tuesday.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!

Change!

Er, uh, wait -- that's exactly what Bush did. Nothing's changed at all.

brookly red Wed, May 27, 2009 11:55:28am

re: #38 Sharmuta

I was making a joke. Trying to think like a progressive.

hope it wasn't too painful :)

Son of the Black Dog Wed, May 27, 2009 11:55:29am

re: #33 calcajun

Look at the bright side--the recidivism rate among terrorists is lower than among many other criminal types.//

Remember, the 1 in 7 figure is just the ones we know about.

Colin Nelson Wed, May 27, 2009 11:55:31am

Under the Obamatron, the series of tough stances taken by the US under the Bush presidency with respect to the Islamists and terrorists in general, are being dismantled.

This is not lost on the Gitmo prisoners. No wonder they return to the jihad life - sorry, the jihad death scene.

After all, "There's no death like it"

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #40 Nevergiveup

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama will meet Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah in Riyadh next week to seek his support over the nuclear standoff with Iran and reviving the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

Obama will visit Riyadh on June 3 in a surprise addition to his scheduled three-day trip to Egypt, Germany and France, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Tuesday.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!

Given our dependence on foreign oil, the Saudis have us by the short hairs. The Iranians only have to threaten an oil shutdown and the world would be tossed into turmoil. Our strategic oil reserves wouldn't last long enough to being domestic drilling.

Ben Hur Wed, May 27, 2009 11:56:53am

re: #43 lawhawk

How long before America has its own Gilad Shalit - terrorists taking US soldiers hostage for purposes of releasing terrorists from Gitmo? I'm surprised someone at AQ central hadn't thought of that possibility.

Because Americans generally don't know the name of any soldier killed in action.

At least beyond the extreme local level.

It's no where near Israel in that regard.

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 11:56:55am

re: #44 zombie

Change!

Er, uh, wait -- that's exactly what Bush did. Nothing's changed at all.

yes it has! Obama has to bow LOWER because he's TALLER !

ggggeeeezzzzzz!

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 11:56:58am

re: #41 Kenneth

This was reported last week before Obama gave his speech on closing Gitmo. Most of the media ignored it then. I wonder why they're running the story again?

What's the difference, they Will all ignore it. Full speed ahead to Armageddon.

Idle Drifter Wed, May 27, 2009 11:57:10am

re: #35 zombie

Seriously, read the communist theorists, they recommend "anti-prison" movements for the very purpose of letting out all the violent criminals -- who can then be recruited as leaders for the Revolution -- ones who luckily lack any moral rudder. That why people like Bernardine Dohrn advocate to "shut down the prison-industrial complex" -- because it's seen as a way to energize the radical left with thousands of newly freed amoral anti-authoritarian recruits.

What applies to domestic criminals applies to international terrorists too. I'm 100% convinced that's the motivation underlying the Left's obsession with closing Gitmo. They want the inmates to return to terrorism.

Released terrorists are the best recruiting tools.

LGoPs Wed, May 27, 2009 11:57:19am

These terrorists need to be held until the end of hostilities, just as we've held prisoners in all previous wars. It is their bad fortune if that end may never really be defined.
Sucks to be terrorist.

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 11:57:25am

re: #44 zombie

Change!

Er, uh, wait -- that's exactly what Bush did. Nothing's changed at all.

Reality's a bitch, makes the best laid socialist plans go awry.

brookly red Wed, May 27, 2009 11:57:37am

re: #46 Son of the Black Dog

Remember, the 1 in 7 figure is just the ones we know about.

/ that third drivers license is a sure tip-off...

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 11:58:07am

re: #48 FurryOldGuyJeans

Given our dependence on foreign oil, the Saudis have us by the short hairs. The Iranians only have to threaten an oil shutdown and the world would be tossed into turmoil. Our strategic oil reserves wouldn't last long enough to being domestic drilling.

Then we invade Mexico and Venezuela and take theirs.

Baier Wed, May 27, 2009 11:58:18am

re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

You have to stick with what you know.

Hey, these guys didn't spend 4 years at terrorist camp just get laid off by the Bush administration. Obama put them back to work! I mean, he said he'd save jobs.

Sharmuta Wed, May 27, 2009 11:58:28am

re: #53 LGoPs

These terrorists need to be held until the end of hostilities, just as we've held prisoners in all previous wars. It is their bad fortune if that end may never really be defined.
Sucks to be terrorist.

If we release them it should be on the beach. "There you go. Swim to Mecca."

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 11:58:33am

re: #35 zombie

Absolutely true. Just like the left wanted the US to cut and run from Iraq: not because they thought Iraq could manage against the terrorists on their own, but because they wanted an abject failure for America.

In the same vein, the left want Obama to make a peace deal with Iran. Not because they don't believe Iran is building a bomb, but because they know they are, and they know they will use it on Israel, and they want that.

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 11:58:49am

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 11:59:13am

re: #46 Son of the Black Dog

Remember, the 1 in 7 figure is just the ones we know about.

Any others just learned to hide better until they jihad.

Ben Hur Wed, May 27, 2009 11:59:26am

re: #35 zombie

Seriously, read the communist theorists, they recommend "anti-prison" movements for the very purpose of letting out all the violent criminals -- who can then be recruited as leaders for the Revolution -- ones who luckily lack any moral rudder. That why people like Bernardine Dohrn advocate to "shut down the prison-industrial complex" -- because it's seen as a way to energize the radical left with thousands of newly freed amoral anti-authoritarian recruits.

What applies to domestic criminals applies to international terrorists too. I'm 100% convinced that's the motivation underlying the Left's obsession with closing Gitmo. They want the inmates to return to terrorism.

Saddam emptied out all his prisons just before the invasion.

That would be like LA releasing all prisoners and not having a police force.

The left conveniently leaves that fact out when discussing the "American made" mess in Bagdad after the war.

Desert Dog Wed, May 27, 2009 11:59:27am

re: #58 Sharmuta

If we release them it should be on the beach. "There you go. Swim to Mecca."

We can take them half way....right inbetween Bermuda and the Azores and drop them off. "We pray to Allah you can swim....see ya"

DEZes Wed, May 27, 2009 11:59:56am

re: #58 Sharmuta

If we release them it should be on the beach. "There you go. Swim to Mecca."

And take this bowling ball as a parting gift. :)

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:00:38pm

re: #64 DEZes

And take this bowling ball as a parting gift. :)

and this nice bag of fresh chum!

opnion Wed, May 27, 2009 12:01:08pm

This is just such an unforeseen consequence of releasing these guys.
Nobody would think that terrorists would turn to terrorism.

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 12:01:23pm

re: #56 Nevergiveup

Then we invade Mexico and Venezuela and take theirs.

That had better have been unmarked sarcasm.

ProUSA Wed, May 27, 2009 12:01:33pm

They would never engage in terrorism again if Bush had not put them in Git-mo.

/lefties

irongrampa Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:05pm

Why, my goodness! Color me astonished.

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:06pm

re: #60 buzzsawmonkey

Will Obama get a sword of his own?

That's coming on his next trip to Syria -- a trip to the bazaar to pick up a Damascus steal.

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:12pm

Baier Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:14pm

re: #66 opnion

This is just such an unforeseen consequence of releasing these guys.
Nobody would think that terrorists would turn to terrorism.

Obama would, ie his buddy Bill Ayers.

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:21pm

Japan, U.S. outline draft UNSC resolution on N. Korea's nuclear test+

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

But China and Russia were cautious about tougher measures during Tuesday's meeting, said the sources. The two countries are apparently concerned that tougher approach toward Pyongyang could hamper efforts to resume the stalled six-party talks on denuclearizing North Korea

Yeah, because the talks have worked so well? What a freak en waste of time. Actually it's worse than a waste of time. They are going to get us all killed.

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:34pm

I know for a fact that 10 out of every 10 Al Q and Taliban that were killed on the battlefield did NOT return to terrorism !

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:43pm

re: #67 FurryOldGuyJeans

That had better have been unmarked sarcasm.

Not really

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 12:02:50pm

Your social dynamic is often the strongest predictor of how you will turn out. Mohandas Gandhi used to say that if you want to be the best person possible, surround yourself with the best people you know, because others have a tendency of rubbing off on you.

If you take a man from the Middle East and drop him in a cell with a bunch of terrorists for a few years, he will almost inevitably become an Islamic radical terrorist sympathizer if not a terrorist-wannabe himself.

Think about it, the guards and interrogators would be hostile towards him, his command of English would be shaky if existant at all, and so his only source of social support would be the other Arab males and his only literature the Koran. The fact that so many Guantanamo inmates fall into the hands of extremist groups when they leave should not be surprising at all when taken in this light.

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 12:03:38pm

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 12:03:51pm

Obama Administration Outsources Torture

The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials.

The change represents a significant loosening of the reins for the United States, which has worked closely with allies to combat violent extremism since the 9/11 attacks but is now pushing that cooperation to new limits.

...about a half-dozen midlevel financiers and logistics experts working with Al Qaeda have been captured and are being held by intelligence services in four Middle Eastern countries after the United States provided information that led to their arrests by local security services, a former American counterterrorism official said.

I guess we can call this "ordinary rendition" by now?

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:04:13pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

The fact that so many Guantanamo inmates fall into the hands of extremist groups

Yeah ,,,because they WERE members of the Eagle Scouts before they went to Gitmo!

gggeeezzzzzzzzzzzz!

Baier Wed, May 27, 2009 12:04:13pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

Your social dynamic is often the strongest predictor of how you will turn out. Mohandas Gandhi used to say that if you want to be the best person possible, surround yourself with the best people you know, because others have a tendency of rubbing off on you.

This is what they taught me is Business School about hiring as well. Always have people smarter than you are around you, and listen to them. That why I like LGF!

Sharmuta Wed, May 27, 2009 12:04:31pm

Okay- seriously. This isn't much different than letting rapists and molesters out of jail. They just go out and rape or molest again. For some reason, lefties think if we just give them one more chance, if we show them mercy, they will be better this time.

Some people are just broken, and can't be reformed. The left fails to understand that "mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent".

I favor keeping rapists and child molesters in jail. That should be done for violent theocratic extremists too.

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:04:37pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

They were terrorist before they got to Gitmo!

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 12:04:43pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

Your social dynamic is often the strongest predictor of how you will turn out. Mohandas Gandhi used to say that if you want to be the best person possible, surround yourself with the best people you know, because others have a tendency of rubbing off on you.

If you take a man from the Middle East and drop him in a cell with a bunch of terrorists for a few years, he will almost inevitably become an Islamic radical terrorist sympathizer if not a terrorist-wannabe himself.

Think about it, the guards and interrogators would be hostile towards him, his command of English would be shaky if existant at all, and so his only source of social support would be the other Arab males and his only literature the Koran. The fact that so many Guantanamo inmates fall into the hands of extremist groups when they leave should not be surprising at all when taken in this light.

Up-dinged because you have a good point ... though it's not the entirety of the problem.

jvic Wed, May 27, 2009 12:04:47pm

re: #40 Nevergiveup

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama will meet Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah in Riyadh next week to seek his support over the nuclear standoff with Iran and reviving the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
Obama will visit Riyadh on June 3 in a surprise addition to his scheduled three-day trip to Egypt, Germany and France, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Tuesday.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!

Note to Obama: A bow is acceptable in a neutral venue. In Riyadh, a full prostration will be expected.
***********
Okay, that was a cheap shot.

But not cheap enough to delete.

FurryOldGuyJeans Wed, May 27, 2009 12:04:56pm

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Not really

Invading a sovereign country that poses no direct threat is not the answer. You think the world hates us now? Just wait, invading Mexico and/or Venezuela would be just cause to ally against us.

DEZes Wed, May 27, 2009 12:05:16pm

I just felt a disturbance in the force.

Baier Wed, May 27, 2009 12:05:37pm

re: #85 FurryOldGuyJeans

Invading a sovereign country that poses no direct threat is not the answer. You think the world hates us now? Just wait, invading Mexico and/or Venezuela would be just cause to ally against us.

And rightly so.

Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 12:05:43pm

re: #5 dhg4

That was an interesting story. I'm only halfway through it, but my observations of these Saudi deprogramming classes in the past were basically that they free all the terrorists, once they've promised only to commit terrorist attacks against Westerners, not against Saudis.

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:05:56pm

re: #83 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Up-dinged because you have a good point ... though it's not the entirety of the problem.

No he doesn't. They weren't turned into terrorist at Gitmo, they were that way already before they got there!

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 12:05:57pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

The fact that so many Guantanamo inmates fall into the hands of extremist groups when they leave should not be surprising at all when taken in this light.

I believe they were well into the whole jihad scene before they got to Gitmo.

opnion Wed, May 27, 2009 12:06:04pm

re: #72 Baier

Obama would, ie his buddy Bill Ayers.

Hey, "I was only 8 year5s old when all of this Ayers stuff happened."
I am sure that BHO considers Ayers a freedom fighter, beside being just a guy from the neighborhood.

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:06:23pm

re: #85 FurryOldGuyJeans

Invading a sovereign country that poses no direct threat is not the answer. You think the world hates us now? Just wait, invading Mexico and/or Venezuela would be just cause to ally against us.

OK it was partially sarcastic.

KenJen Wed, May 27, 2009 12:06:40pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

Your social dynamic is often the strongest predictor of how you will turn out. Mohandas Gandhi used to say that if you want to be the best person possible, surround yourself with the best people you know, because others have a tendency of rubbing off on you.

If you take a man from the Middle East and drop him in a cell with a bunch of terrorists for a few years, he will almost inevitably become an Islamic radical terrorist sympathizer if not a terrorist-wannabe himself.

Think about it, the guards and interrogators would be hostile towards him, his command of English would be shaky if existant at all, and so his only source of social support would be the other Arab males and his only literature the Koran. The fact that so many Guantanamo inmates fall into the hands of extremist groups when they leave should not be surprising at all when taken in this light.

Guess we should of put them in an Amish prison.

Ben Hur Wed, May 27, 2009 12:06:54pm

Gitmo, like most, if not all security prisons in Israel, has long stopped being a deterent, because of all the perks forced upon the system by "rights" groups and international players who have ZERO experience or reference in actually fighting terrorists.

In Israel, it was like an effen summer camp, with arts and crafts (seriously), etc all designed to further demonise Israel.

They would not take anything from the State of Israel to the point that the Pepsi they drank was in Arabic bottles from Jordan, etc.

Amnesty International and the Intl Red Cross made sure they were extremely comfortable.

They had hotel style pizza ovens (with the gas tanks) and pita ovens so they cooked their own food.

They would throw out more food daily than a whole village would eat in a week.

You don't know how many times we would check out someone being released and ask him, "How was it?"

"A joke" was the stock answer.

reloadingisnotahobby Wed, May 27, 2009 12:06:56pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey
You may have point!
So, in that vein......All Terrorist from this point forward will be enrolled ,free of charge in BYU in beautiful Utah!
That way when they leave college they will be serving a Mission for the LDS Church!
It's all good!
Double ///////////

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 12:07:13pm

pegcity Wed, May 27, 2009 12:07:41pm

re: #81 Sharmuta

yeah but lefties seem to think that everyone who isn't them is somehow guilty, and that those who harm others are somehow innocent. They are demented

KenJen Wed, May 27, 2009 12:07:45pm

re: #86 DEZes

Have you been changing your avatar or am I nuts?

DEZes Wed, May 27, 2009 12:07:48pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

Put the crack away.

100

DaddyG Wed, May 27, 2009 12:08:14pm

14% Recidivism as compared to 67% of the national prison population who commit another crime within a year of their release (2007 stats). It looks like GITMO is working pretty well to me.

Perhaps we can get the Gitmo management team to take over the Fed prison system?

Of course the 67% of felons include non-violent felonies.

101

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:08:15pm

re: #98 KenJen

Have you been changing your avatar or am I nuts?

both!

(sorry)!

102

DEZes Wed, May 27, 2009 12:08:47pm

re: #98 KenJen

Have you been changing your avatar or am I nuts?

I changed it for Memorial day, Its now back to the old one, slightly modified.

103

Ben Hur Wed, May 27, 2009 12:09:55pm

re: #81 Sharmuta

Okay- seriously. This isn't much different than letting rapists and molesters out of jail. They just go out and rape or molest again. For some reason, lefties think if we just give them one more chance, if we show them mercy, they will be better this time.

Some people are just broken, and can't be reformed. The left fails to understand that "mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent".

I favor keeping rapists and child molesters in jail. That should be done for violent theocratic extremists too.

Interesting what people want to do to those who want to touch our children compared to those who want to kill our children.

104

KenJen Wed, May 27, 2009 12:10:14pm

re: #102 DEZes

I changed it for Memorial day, Its now back to the old one, slightly modified.

Me likes.

105

ProUSA Wed, May 27, 2009 12:10:19pm

re: #91 opnion

Hey, "I was only 8 year5s old when all of this Ayers stuff happened."
I am sure that BHO considers Ayers a freedom fighter, beside being just a guy from the neighborhood.

And Marx, Lenin, and Stalin were all dead when Obama was being nurtured by his Marxist parents, and mentored by communist party leaders, and seeking out the most radical professors, and working with Ayers. So, it is racist for anyone to call Obama a socialist.

/lefties and Obama zombies

106

DaddyG Wed, May 27, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey
If you want to surround yourself with good people don't get caught on an Afgan battlefield pointing an AK-47 at American troops or plotting to blow up an American landmark and kill civillians because they are Jews or Christians.

107

Sharmuta Wed, May 27, 2009 12:11:08pm

re: #103 Ben Hur

Interesting what people want to do to those who want to touch our children compared to those who want to kill our children.

Sometimes, they're one and the same.

108

DEZes Wed, May 27, 2009 12:11:23pm

re: #104 KenJen

Me likes.

Thank you kindly.

109

Eowyn2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:11:48pm

re: #12 brookly red

and the other 6?

they haven't been caught.

110

DEZes Wed, May 27, 2009 12:12:08pm

re: #106 DaddyG

If you want to surround yourself with good people don't get caught on an Afgan battlefield pointing an AK-47 at American troops or plotting to blow up an American landmark and kill civillians because they are Jews or Christians.

DING DING DING!

111

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 12:13:45pm

Of course most of the Guantanamo inmates were already terrorists and Islamic radicals before they incarceration there, but there were admittedly also many false arrests due to faulty intelligence and opportunism from the Afghan warlords selling us 'terrorists' who hadn't actually done anything. It is these men I am referring to.

The reason we had Guantanamo was to extract intelligence from these men without subjecting them to the US justice system. This had both benefits and negatives, as we protected intelligence from being disclosed in court but the waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques might jeopardize the legal prosecution of many of the inmates in the future as any evidence obtained under duress might not be admissable.

112

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 12:14:56pm

re: #89 Nevergiveup

No he doesn't. They weren't turned into terrorist at Gitmo, they were that way already before they got there!

As I said, it wasn't a statement of ALL of the problem.

Also, I took it in the context of #37 bbcrackmonkey. Notice the wording in that one.

113

LGoPs Wed, May 27, 2009 12:15:19pm

re: #81 Sharmuta

Okay- seriously. This isn't much different than letting rapists and molesters out of jail. They just go out and rape or molest again. For some reason, lefties think if we just give them one more chance, if we show them mercy, they will be better this time.

Some people are just broken, and can't be reformed. The left fails to understand that "mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent".

I favor keeping rapists and child molesters in jail. That should be done for violent theocratic extremists too.

You can't rehabilitate someone who was never habilitated in the first place.

114

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 12:17:13pm

re: #102 DEZes

... slightly ~~modified~~ evolved.

/just helping you stay LC (Lizard Correctness)

115

calcajun Wed, May 27, 2009 12:17:55pm

re: #71 buzzsawmonkey

Side effects may include sudden death or gourmet halal meals.

What about the four hour erections? Won't they need that for the virgins?///

116

Eowyn2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:18:02pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

Your social dynamic is often the strongest predictor of how you will turn out. Mohandas Gandhi used to say that if you want to be the best person possible, surround yourself with the best people you know, because others have a tendency of rubbing off on you.

If you take a man from the Middle East and drop him in a cell with a bunch of terrorists for a few years, he will almost inevitably become an Islamic radical terrorist sympathizer if not a terrorist-wannabe himself.

Think about it, the guards and interrogators would be hostile towards him, his command of English would be shaky if existant at all, and so his only source of social support would be the other Arab males and his only literature the Koran. The fact that so many Guantanamo inmates fall into the hands of extremist groups when they leave should not be surprising at all when taken in this light.

The US military was picking up moderate waifs and putting them in Gitmo? who'd a thunk it

117

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:19:13pm

re: #111 bbcrackmonkey

but the waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques might jeopardize the legal prosecution

Me doubts Kahlid Sheik Mohammed (and the 2 other waterboard recipients) will ever see the inside of a US courtroom

118

Eowyn2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:20:09pm

re: #37 bbcrackmonkey
There is the whole prison outside US borders thing. We can't hold them inside the US without due process and a million appeals.

119

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:20:14pm

re: #112 pre-Boomer Marine brat

As I said, it wasn't a statement of ALL of the problem.

Also, I took it in the context of #37 bbcrackmonkey. Notice the wording in that one.

Again he misses many points. Bringing them to the USA super max or not, means all of a sudden they get all the protections of anyone else held in Prison in the USA. And that is problematic to say the least and it still misses the point they were freak en scumbag terrorists when we captured them.

120

irongrampa Wed, May 27, 2009 12:21:16pm

re: #117 sattv4u2

Better hope they don't. If so, then all the protection of a US citizen will apply. Imagine what the trial would be like.

121

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:22:12pm

re: #117 sattv4u2

but the waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques might jeopardize the legal prosecution

Me doubts Kahlid Sheik Mohammed (and the 2 other waterboard recipients) will ever see the inside of a US courtroom

Almost none of them will because of "evidence" rules. If they are brought here and tried, they will walk. That is one reason Obama and his ilk all of a sudden don't know what to do with them after shooting their mouths off about closing Gitmo. Dumb fucks.

122

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 12:23:12pm

You know what? I was simply trying to explain the social dynamic of Guantanamo and how improperly isolating the prisoners would lead to the radicalisation of the ones who were wrongly imprisoned, of which there were many according to our own government, both the Bush and Obama administrations.

Perhaps a one-sentence, preaching-to-the-choir post about how much terrorists are assholes would be more to your liking?

123

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:25:25pm

re: #122 bbcrackmonkey

You know what? I was simply trying to explain the social dynamic of Guantanamo and how improperly isolating the prisoners would lead to the radicalisation of the ones who were wrongly imprisoned, of which there were many according to our own government, both the Bush and Obama administrations.

Perhaps a one-sentence, preaching-to-the-choir post about how much terrorists are assholes would be more to your liking?

No, but perhaps some evidence that even ONE person that was sent to GITMO as a choirboy and after released started bombing pizza parlors would have sufficed

124

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 12:26:39pm

re: #121 Nevergiveup

Obama pledged to close Gitmo.
Obama pledged to release those who can be released and bring the rest to the US.
Obama pledged to put those who can be on trial in US courts.
Obama pledged to order indefinitely detained those who cannot be put on trial.

Obama has pledged to do things not possible under the US Constitution.

Obama has painted himself into a corner and no amount of sweet talkin' Hope'n'Change will fix it for him.

125

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 12:27:33pm

re: #119 Nevergiveup

Again he misses many points. Bringing them to the USA super max or not, means all of a sudden they get all the protections of anyone else held in Prison in the USA. And that is problematic to say the least and it still misses the point they were freak en scumbag terrorists when we captured them.

RE his #37 -- yes, of course, you're right about that. I up-dinged 37 because his 1st para. I should have qualified/clarified that I didn't agree with the 2nd and 3rd.

I've believed from the first photos I saw of Gitmo, it would have been far more effective to hold them in absolute isolation from each other.

Crack them. Break them.

126

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 12:31:11pm

re: #122 bbcrackmonkey

the ones who were wrongly imprisoned, of which there were many according to our own government, both the Bush and Obama administrations.

Do you have a real number for that? And what percentage of these allegedly radicalized innocents turned to jihad when released? Is it not more likely that the claims of innocence were false and that the US merely lacked evidence enough to keep them detained and were fooled into releasing them?

I would think the statistic that 1 in 7 released Gitmo detainees returned to jihad is proof there were far fewer innocents detained than previously claimed.

127

[deleted] Wed, May 27, 2009 12:32:11pm

128

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 12:34:08pm

#122 bbcrackmonkey

For example, many people claim Omar Khadr is "innocent" and yet he was captured following a firefight with US special forces. He was armed and had been using his gun. A video was also found showing Khadr helping to build IED's. Yet a large segment of the Canadian media insists he is "innocent".

129

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:37:35pm

re: #125 pre-Boomer Marine brat

RE his #37 -- yes, of course, you're right about that. I up-dinged 37 because his 1st para. I should have qualified/clarified that I didn't agree with the 2nd and 3rd.

I've believed from the first photos I saw of Gitmo, it would have been far more effective to hold them in absolute isolation from each other.

Crack them. Break them.

Yeah, but then the liberals and democrats and of course the rest of the world that some people care what they think, would really have been super mad with us?

130

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 12:37:44pm

re: #126 Kenneth

Do you have a real number for that? And what percentage of these allegedly radicalized innocents turned to jihad when released? Is it not more likely that the claims of innocence were false and that the US merely lacked evidence enough to keep them detained and were fooled into releasing them?

I would think the statistic that 1 in 7 released Gitmo detainees returned to jihad is proof there were far fewer innocents detained than previously claimed.

BTW, here's one who snookered the system, just as you said.

March 11th, Long War Journal.
A former detainee at Guantánamo Bay has become the Taliban’s chief operations officer in southern Afghanistan.

131

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 12:39:02pm

Well Kenneth Omar Khadr was a 15 year old child soldiers when we arrested him.

He's obviously not innocent but at the same time he was a young boy who had likely been brainwashed. What would you propose our policy be on dealing with captured child soldiers?

132

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, May 27, 2009 12:39:03pm

re: #129 Nevergiveup

Yeah, but then the liberals and democrats and of course the rest of the world that some people care what they think, would really have been super mad with us?

Oh, without a doubt!
Knew that when I wrote my comment above.
Didn't change my thinking.

133

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:40:24pm

re: #131 bbcrackmonkey

Well Kenneth Omar Khadr was a 15 year old child soldiers when we arrested him.

He's obviously not innocent but at the same time he was a young boy who had likely been brainwashed. What would you propose our policy be on dealing with captured child soldiers?

and to think, that didn't even happen at GITMO!

wow !

134

jvic Wed, May 27, 2009 12:41:22pm

re: #76 bbcrackmonkey

If you take a man from the Middle East and drop him in a cell with a bunch of terrorists for a few years, he will almost inevitably become an Islamic radical terrorist sympathizer if not a terrorist-wannabe himself.
Think about it, the guards and interrogators would be hostile towards him, his command of English would be shaky if existant at all, and so his only source of social support would be the other Arab males and his only literature the Koran. The fact that so many Guantanamo inmates fall into the hands of extremist groups when they leave should not be surprising at all when taken in this light.

You have a point, kinda sorta.

Given all the money our society spends to influence consumer and voter opinions, you'd think we'd find better ways to handle the Gitmites.

Call it manipulating. Call it changing their minds. Call it reprogramming or call it winning their hearts. I don't care. We are in an asymmetric war and my attitude is not humanitarian; it is enlightened ruthlessness.

135

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:41:38pm

re: #131 bbcrackmonkey

re: #133 sattv4u2

and to think, that didn't even happen at GITMO!

wow !

AND ,,, I dare say your average 15 year old in most 3rd world countries is FAR different than you average 15 year old brought up in Western cultures.

136

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 12:43:12pm

re: #135 sattv4u2

re: #133 sattv4u2

AND ,,, I dare say your average 15 year old in most 3rd world countries is FAR different than you average 15 year old brought up in Western cultures.

And don't we try many 15 year olds as adults here in the USA?

137

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 12:44:43pm

re: #131 bbcrackmonkey

Well Kenneth Omar Khadr was a 15 year old child soldiers when we arrested him.

He's obviously not innocent but at the same time he was a young boy who had likely been brainwashed. What would you propose our policy be on dealing with captured child soldiers?

I propose the US keep him in Gitmo where he has been treated with greater humanity than his evil mother and father ever did. Hold him in detention in Gitmo until he is no longer considered a danger. Just don't send him back to Canada to live off the public purse like the rest of his vile family. Deport the rest of them form Canada while we are at it.

He was not "brainwashed" any more than any other jihadi was brainwashed. He was raised to hate infidels and to fight in jihad. Those were the familiy values he was raised in.

138

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:45:24pm

re: #136 Nevergiveup

And don't we try many 15 year olds as adults here in the USA?

depends on the crime. I would venture a guess that shooting an AK 47 at soldiers (or anyone) or making and setting off IED's for the purpose of maiminh and killing would qualify

but thats just me!

139

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 12:47:42pm

Listen I am trying very hard to be polite, respectful, informative, and communicative with everyone in this thread and would please like that to be reciprocated. I came here to have a mature discussion of the issues at hand and I would appreciate it if we could continue this discussion in a civilized manner without resorting to mocking or snarkiness.

140

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 12:51:10pm

Kenneth, I agree with you that the boy likely receives better medical care at Guantanamo than he ever did with his parents but I don't think that putting him in a cell with other Islamic terrorists and jihadis would be anything but mentally destructive for him.

I'm sorta repeating myself here but like I said we need to isolate these people and break up their social dynamic.

You say we need to keep him in Guantanamo until he is no longer a danger to society, what would satisfy your requirements? Some kind of parole board? Reeducation? How can we meet this metric?

141

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:52:21pm

re: #139 bbcrackmonkey

without resorting to snarkiness

You obvilously don't know us very well !

142

tedzilla99 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:55:24pm

re: #140 bbcrackmonkey

Kenneth, I agree with you that the boy likely receives better medical care at Guantanamo than he ever did with his parents but I don't think that putting him in a cell with other Islamic terrorists and jihadis would be anything but mentally destructive for him.

I'm sorta repeating myself here but like I said we need to isolate these people and break up their social dynamic.

You say we need to keep him in Guantanamo until he is no longer a danger to society, what would satisfy your requirements? Some kind of parole board? Reeducation? How can we meet this metric?

There are 2 faulty assumptions you're making:

1. These 'innocent' prisoners were hanging out at the library minding their business when they were picked up and brought to Gitmo.

2. These prisoners are permitted unfettered access to each other, so they can have terrorist training classes and pillow fights when the guards aren't looking.

As always, when you reach a contradiction, check your premises. One of them is wrong.

143

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 12:55:25pm

I do know you very well. I have likely been a member here at LGF longer than anyone else in this thread.

I was reading this blog since 2002 and I registered June 17th, 2004, just a couple of days shy of Kenneth here, whom I recognize but I suspect he does not recognize me.

144

sattv4u2 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:56:35pm

re: #143 bbcrackmonkey

I do know you very well. I have likely been a member here at LGF longer than anyone else in this thread.

I was reading this blog since 2002 and I registered June 17th, 2004, just a couple of days shy of Kenneth here, whom I recognize but I suspect he does not recognize me.

And longevity makes your theory more valid because ,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

145

Hawaii69 Wed, May 27, 2009 12:58:05pm

You have to wonder how many aren't "returning" to terrorism, but turning to it after being locked up for not good reason for several years.

There is a core of very bad people in Gitmo, but there were also many innocent people who were turned in by and enemy who wanted to collect the bounty.

146

looking closely Wed, May 27, 2009 12:59:43pm

re: #131 bbcrackmonkey

Well Kenneth Omar Khadr was a 15 year old child soldiers when we arrested him.

He's obviously not innocent but at the same time he was a young boy who had likely been brainwashed. What would you propose our policy be on dealing with captured child soldiers?

What do YOU propose the policy be towards them?

You've got two choices for soldiers on the field of battle: Capture them, or NOT capture them.

Clearly, you don't like capture, and in truth, the field-expedient procedure is NOT to take prisoners. That allows one more choice:

You either let them go free on the spot, or summarily execute them. That's it. There are no other viable/legal options.

And this is what is going to happen if there is no Guantanamo Bay equivalent. In fact, its probably already been happening. If soldiers don't have the latitude to take prisoners, they won't take prisoners.

That means that either more enemy combatants are going to be killed (rather than captured), or alternatively, less enemy information is going to be captured as the combatants are released free without interrogation.

Is that really a better outcome?

Whether or not this kid is 15 doesn't change things much. There is no way to reliably determine his age on the battlefield, so the metric of what to do with him doesn't change.

After he's captured, there can/should be some procedure to determine if he can be released, but the usual duration for capture is until the cessation of hostilities.

147

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 1:00:08pm

re: #142 tedzilla99

There are 2 faulty assumptions you're making:

1. These 'innocent' prisoners were hanging out at the library minding their business when they were picked up and brought to Gitmo.

2. These prisoners are permitted unfettered access to each other, so they can have terrorist training classes and pillow fights when the guards aren't looking.

As always, when you reach a contradiction, check your premises. One of them is wrong.

Ok, to respond to your points:

1. Some of them actually were. I don't know why this is a controversial statement as our own government has admitted this fact many times. Immediately after invading Afghanistan innocent men were sold to the US military and intelligence forces by falsely claiming they were Al-Qaeda. The Afghan Northern Alliance, in some of these cases, was simply settling old scores with rivals or getting greedy.

2. They have enough access to each other that they can coordinate hunger strikes and at several points riots almost started. They need to be completely isolated from each other.

148

looking closely Wed, May 27, 2009 1:00:55pm

re: #145 Hawaii69

You have to wonder how many aren't "returning" to terrorism, but turning to it after being locked up for not good reason for several years.

Probably zero.

How many years of being locked in prison would turn you into a rapist or murderer?

149

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 1:05:08pm

re: #140 bbcrackmonkey

Kenneth, I agree with you that the boy likely receives better medical care at Guantanamo than he ever did with his parents but I don't think that putting him in a cell with other Islamic terrorists and jihadis would be anything but mentally destructive for him.

You say we need to keep him in Guantanamo until he is no longer a danger to society, what would satisfy your requirements? Some kind of parole board? Reeducation? How can we meet this metric?

Khadr is not kept in the same cell with other inmates. He does have contact with other inmates in his cell block. Gitmo is arranged with separate cell blocks for different categories of detainees. The worst ones are kept away from the those considered less dangerous. Khadr is kept in one of the softer blocks.

The Canadian gov't is in discussions with the US gov't on returning him to Canada. I do no know if he would be detained in Canada or not. A prominent Canadian imam has offered to provide counseling to Omar to put him onto a law abiding path. Personally, I do not trust him to be "reformable". Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. His mother & sister are still living in Canada and have not moderated their views one bit. If Omar Khadr is reunited with them, there is little doubt he too would revert to his former beliefs. The imam at the mosque the Khadr family attends, one Ali Hindi, is an outspoken radical Islamist. Hindi's son traveled to Afghanistan & Pakistan for "religious" charity work. This is the same mosque that several of the "Toronto 18" gang of Islamic terrorists attended.

I'm not sure anybody can define a metric for measuring Khadr's safety or level of reform. It is irrelevant anyway, as the agenda for releasing Khadr is driven by politics in both countries, and not Khadr's level of reform.

150

tedzilla99 Wed, May 27, 2009 1:06:54pm

re: #148 looking closely

Probably zero.

How many years of being locked in prison would turn you into a rapist or murderer?

Yeah it's akin to going to a Broadway show and leaving totally fabulously flamingly gay! NTAWWT

151

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 1:09:13pm

re: #143 bbcrackmonkey

I do not recognize your nic. But so long as you remain civil and constructive I will treat you the same. As for the snark, well, grow a thicker skin and ignore it. Don't make the mistake of complaining about cheap-shots, as it will only escalate and end in a melt-down. Ignore the personal crap and stick with the issues.

152

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 1:09:37pm

re: #144 sattv4u2

And longevity makes your theory more valid because ,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

It doesn't I am simply saying I know what this is like. Way back in the old days I used to get piled on all the time for suggesting that not all Muslims were bad and that we should not deport all Muslims from the US, stances which Charles has long since started banning people for.

looking closely, as far as my opinion on how we should handle child soldiers, it is certainly a very difficult issue to tackle. I cannot claim any expertise on what kinds of precedents the US or international law has in dealing with captured child soldiers. I honestly don't know, and I was asking Kenneth for his opinion in order to get a better understanding of the issue.

153

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 1:11:31pm

re: #147 bbcrackmonkey

It is against the Geneva Conventions to completely isolate all prisoners all the time. Some are in isolation for periods. But I assure you, the low risk detainees are kept separate from the really bad guys. Omar Khadr is not hanging out with Khalid Sheik Mohammed.

154

Hawaii69 Wed, May 27, 2009 1:12:30pm

re: #126 Kenneth

Do you have a real number for that? And what percentage of these allegedly radicalized innocents turned to jihad when released? Is it not more likely that the claims of innocence were false and that the US merely lacked evidence enough to keep them detained and were fooled into releasing them?

I would think the statistic that 1 in 7 released Gitmo detainees returned to jihad is proof there were far fewer innocents detained than previously claimed.

I'd think the fact that only 1 in 7
returned shows that their were plenty of innocents
caught inthe wide net that was cast.

We've been steadily releasing them for years.

....and, are they actually using "returned" to mean that
confirmed terrorists are going back to their old ways, or are they classifying anyone who engages in this activity after leaving Gitmo as a "returnee" whether or not his prior guilt was ever confirmed?

I'd think dedicated Jihadis could do better than a 14%
rate of recidivism.

155

Hawaii69 Wed, May 27, 2009 1:17:20pm

re: #148 looking closely

Probably zero.

How many years of being locked in prison would turn you into a rapist or murderer?

That analogy makes no sense in this context.

The question would be "How many years of being locked up for for a crime I did not commit, without charge, would it take for me to develop a deep hatred for my foreign jailers, and inspire me to strike back at them
when I was released?"

156

bbcrackmonkey Wed, May 27, 2009 1:17:21pm

Kenneth based on your info it seems that relinquishing him into the custody of his Canadian family would be counter-productive considering the radicalism which he would be surrounded by.

I suppose the first step is put him in front of a fair and impartial military tribunal to determine his level of mental fitness and culpability for the crimes he has committed.

157

Nevergiveup Wed, May 27, 2009 1:19:26pm

re: #154 Hawaii69

I'd think the fact that only 1 in 7
returned shows that their were plenty of innocents
caught inthe wide net that was cast.

We've been steadily releasing them for years.

....and, are they actually using "returned" to mean that
confirmed terrorists are going back to their old ways, or are they classifying anyone who engages in this activity after leaving Gitmo as a "returnee" whether or not his prior guilt was ever confirmed?

I'd think dedicated Jihadis could do better than a 14%
rate of recidivism.

That's 1 in 7 of the ones released who are ones considered relatively "innocent"!

158

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 1:19:27pm

re: #152 bbcrackmonkey

And I think the US should deal with so-called child soldiers on a case-by case basis. Omar Khadr was 15 when captured in Afghanistan on July 27, 2002. He was severely injured in the firefight and was transported to Bagram were he received first rate medical care which saved his life. He was transferred to Gitmo on October 28, 2002, after he had turned 16. At that point he was no longer a "child soldier". Khadr is 22 years old today.

159

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 1:22:35pm

re: #156 bbcrackmonkey

Well, we will soon find out what happens to Khadr, as Obama has pledged to close Gitmo, and the simplest thing for Obama to do is turn Khadr over to the Canadians. I suspect the Canadian gov't will give him a nice apartment, a wad of "apology" money and a talk show on the CBC.

160

Kenneth Wed, May 27, 2009 1:29:15pm

For a look at the bizarre world of the Khadr's check out their family website:

The Khadr Legacy

Here's just a taste of the BS:

In 1985, after spending two summers volunteering in refugee camps, my father resolved leave behind his life of privilege in Canada and move his family to the Afghanistan-Pakistan border and try to help the country rebuild after its devastating invasion by the Soviet Union. This decision helped us grow with more than ourselves in mind. We learned to think of others before ourselves, we saw difficulties and hardship, and it helped us appreciate all that we had. It made us better people and it changed our lives forever.

And so our life of giving and helping began, and what a great life it turned out to be. Overseas, people were suspicious of us and we were sometimes labeled as Western spies, and at home we find people are still suspicious of us and we are sometimes labeled as terrorists. But for all the fear and hatred, for all the rumors and lies spread about us, we remain what we have always been; a Canadian family proud to have used our contacts and resources to build a series of orphanages, schools and hospitals across war-torn Afghanistan.

The Khadr family lived in the same compound as Osama bin Laden just outside Kandahar. One of the Khadr kids even recalled playing volley ball with the leader of Al Qaeda.

161

pjaicomo Wed, May 27, 2009 1:34:55pm

Wow, if 1 in 7 of the people we deemed innocent were actually guilty, we should just keep everyone locked up even if they seem innocent.

That seems American to me.

162

abolitionist Wed, May 27, 2009 1:38:14pm

re: #35 zombie

As an ACLU member, Dohrn has also pushed hard for more layers of insulation from our criminal justice system for the not-yet-adult demographic. I bet she's put in lots of study of children participating in wars in Africa, as well as stateside gang bangers. I've studied her history, listened to her declaration of war, read her Prairie Fire manifesto, and listened to some of her post 911 speeches, so I'm not buying the altruism she's peddling.

163

ORD neighbor Wed, May 27, 2009 1:42:23pm

With all due respect to the Pentagon, I have a tough time believing their numbers. For some reason I have a feeling it is more than one in seven that "goes bad" again. And given more time, it is only natural for recidivism rate to grow. I wonder what rate of growth in this phenomenon we will see as time goes on; we already have some data points.

164

nyc redneck Wed, May 27, 2009 1:55:49pm

re: #121 Nevergiveup

Almost none of them will because of "evidence" rules. If they are brought here and tried, they will walk. That is one reason Obama and his ilk all of a sudden don't know what to do with them after shooting their mouths off about closing Gitmo. Dumb fucks.

i guess someone told o abt. willie horton.

165

Colin Nelson Wed, May 27, 2009 2:46:14pm

#131 bbc

You picked the wrong "child soldier" to side with.

Since when do soldiers "arrest" the enemy on the battlefield?

Khadr is a pos - mark Kenneth's posts on this thread well.

166

wiffersnapper Wed, May 27, 2009 2:57:33pm

shocka!

167

Joo-LiZ Wed, May 27, 2009 3:01:45pm

I'm impressed the figure is as low as 1 in 7... woulda thought it was higher.

168

keithgabryelski Wed, May 27, 2009 4:00:58pm

1 in 7? 15%

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Seems like it isn't a catastrophe.

169

gregb Wed, May 27, 2009 4:51:32pm

How would they know? And if they do know, with certainty, can't the re-capture/"re-educate by showing them the light" them?

Greg

170

Dad O' Blondes Wed, May 27, 2009 5:50:24pm

"...one out of every seven, terrorism suspects formerly held at the U.S. detention site at Guantanamo Bay are confirmed or suspected of having returned to terrorism, the Pentagon said on Tuesday..."

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that terrorism activities are going on in this terrorist prison...

171

Pupdawg Thu, May 28, 2009 5:02:58am

Dag nabbit, bet a few years in a Super Max Prison in Colorado will suck the terrorist urge right out of all those ex-Gitmo goons to the tune of 0% terror recidivism...or, better yet just for an experiment in social Darwinism ship 1/3 of them to New Jersey, 1/3 to California and the last 1/3 to a placebo state like Rhode Island...they'll be unionized and Democrats post haste...and in the case of Galifornia and New Jersey who'll really notice or care actually that some of them remain are a little criminally, terroristically, statistically insane?

/sarc super max-me size!

172

rwdflynavy Thu, May 28, 2009 5:45:53am

Capital punishment means never having to say "You again?".

Spy Mode Auto

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