Dick Cheney backtracks from his statement that he “didn’t know Colin Powell was still a Republican,” and says, “We’re happy to have General Powell in the Republican Party.”
(Obviously, he isn’t speaking for the right-wing blogosphere, most of whom are calling Powell a “RINO” and screaming, “Traitor! Good riddance, who needs you!”)
2 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:32:45pm |
Pretty weak backtrack. I'll return when sanity comes back to the GOP.
| 3 |
J.D. Wed, May 27, 2009 8:33:00pm |
I thought it was no more than a tongue in cheek comment at the time.
| 4 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:33:13pm |
An Open Letter to Colin Powell
Dear General Powell,
I read with great interest your recent statement that the Republican Party must be "more inclusive" and that it must expand its "very, very narrow base".
While all Americans respect and honor your service to this country, when it comes to political theory, economics, law and history, you are thoroughly, utterly confused.
On October 19th of last year, you endorsed Barack Obama for President on Meet the Press.
But America had a "moderate" Republican candidate for president at that time. John McCain was an "inclusive" candidate and certainly didn't pander to a "narrow base". Yet you abandoned him, Mr. Powell, and -- in fact -- helped sabotage his campaign by publicly endorsing the most ideologically pure, leftist candidate this country has ever seen.
| 5 |
american sabra Wed, May 27, 2009 8:33:21pm |
Is it my imagination or have we heard more from Cheney in the last 2 weeks than we did in the last 8 years?
| 8 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 8:36:31pm |
That's what will help the Republican Party - voting for Obama.
Why stop at only one North Korea?
| 9 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 8:36:55pm |
re: #5 american sabra
Is it my imagination or have we heard more from Cheney in the last 2 weeks than we did in the last 8 years?
I was just thinking exactly the same thing. What's going on? Is the RNC putting him forth as the new face of the Republican party?
| 10 |
Kragar Wed, May 27, 2009 8:37:15pm |
I got a call tonight from the CA Republican Party taking credit for defeating the budget initiatives and saying they were all set to put me down for a $100 donation.
I bet they were.
| 11 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:37:53pm |
re: #4 SeafoodGumbo
But America had a "moderate" Republican candidate for president at that time. John McCain was an "inclusive" candidate and certainly didn't pander to a "narrow base". Yet you abandoned him
People are confusing moderation and weakness. They are not the same thing. McCain is probably a good person but he was a lousy candidate. Most of the high profile defections came after he appointed Palin as VP. It was a stupid move and many people decided that the alternative was the better option. I know that's unthinkable to a lot of people but that's what happened.
| 12 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 8:37:55pm |
The only part of the Republican Party that seems to have it's sh!t together is the whacko's. Because of it, they are gaining power and That scares the h@ll out of me.
| 13 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:38:26pm |
Obviously, he isn’t speaking for the right-wing blogosphere, most of whom are calling Powell a “RINO” and screaming, “Traitor! Good riddance, who needs you!”
The charges of being a traitor to the party and a RINO are legitimate, I think.
He actively worked to elect the other party's nominee. How is that not being a traitor?
| 14 |
american sabra Wed, May 27, 2009 8:38:36pm |
re: #9 Last Mohican
I was just thinking exactly the same thing. What's going on? Is the RNC putting him forth as the new face of the Republican party?
I don't know. Would beat the hell out of Rush or Beck though!
Cheney said the right thing. Whether he believes it or not doesn't really matter. I mean these guys are politicians and that's what they do. Cheney and Powell still have opposing issues and that won't change, still represent different kinds of Republicans.
| 15 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 8:38:44pm |
| 16 |
american sabra Wed, May 27, 2009 8:39:38pm |
If Powell is a RINO, then so is Cheney. So maybe you favor one kind of RINO over another?
| 17 |
cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 8:40:24pm |
Powell voted for Obama. It's not exactly like there was a right wing extremist as the alternative -- it was McCain, fer crissakes. Powell actually thought Obama was a better choice than McCain!
So what makes Powell a Republican in the first place? Does putting an (R) after your name make you a Republican? Could Eugene Debs have been a Republican if he put an (R) after his name?
A "Big Tent" is one thing, but there has to be some basic principles behind being a Republican. And nothing that Powell's ever said or done tells me that he has the first clue about what those might be.
So who cares if Powell leaves? Maybe he just needs some time on his own to think things out.
| 18 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:40:37pm |
re: #13 SeafoodGumbo
Patriotism is not partisanship. He felt that he was doing the right thing for the country. In hindsight, I agree.
| 19 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:40:45pm |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
People are confusing moderation and weakness. They are not the same thing. McCain is probably a good person but he was a lousy candidate. Most of the high profile defections came after he appointed Palin as VP. It was a stupid move and many people decided that the alternative was the better option. I know that's unthinkable to a lot of people but that's what happened.
I disagree. His campaign was moribund and dull till Palin came along. Her entry was the only spark that his campaign had for half a year other than that one commercial he ran comparing Obama to Paris Hilton.
| 20 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:42:13pm |
re: #18 Killgore Trout
Patriotism is not partisanship. He felt that he was doing the right thing for the country. In hindsight, I agree.
Even if you view his actions as correct, the charge is that he's a traitor to his party, not a traitor to his country, and it's a legitimate statement.
| 21 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 8:42:14pm |
re: #14 american sabra
I don't know. Would beat the hell out of Rush or Beck though!
Cheney said the right thing. Whether he believes it or not doesn't really matter. I mean these guys are politicians and that's what they do.
I agree 100%. That's his job. The GOP should be glad to have Powell in the party, and as many as possible of the other Americans who voted for Obama, too.
| 22 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 8:43:01pm |
re: #17 cicero05
So what makes Powell a Republican in the first place?
Oh, I don't know. Just guessing, but maybe the fact that he voted for Republicans every year since Ronald Reagan, and worked in high offices under both Bush presidencies?
| 24 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 8:43:33pm |
re: #18 Killgore Trout
Patriotism is not partisanship. He felt that he was doing the right thing for the country. In hindsight, I agree.
You mean, in hindsight, you think that supporting Obama was the right thing for the country?
| 25 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:43:53pm |
re: #19 SeafoodGumbo
Just because the base was excited doesn't mean squat to the moderates. It's not difficult to excite partisans. The tricky part is gaining the attention of people who are objectively looking at both sides to see who has the better ideas.
| 27 |
little boomer Wed, May 27, 2009 8:44:27pm |
Powell threw in his lot with O'loser at the last election, betcha cause the anointed one was non-white, hence, he has the same credibility as Boog Powell for me.
| 28 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 8:45:02pm |
re: #27 little boomer
Powell threw in his lot with O'loser at the last election, betcha cause the anointed one was non-white, hence, he has the same credibility as Boog Powell for me.
So Cheney must be just like Boog Powell too, I guess.
| 29 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 8:45:10pm |
re: #27 little boomer
You got something against Boog Powell?
| 31 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:45:56pm |
"Americans are looking for more government in their life, not less," Powell said last week.
Yeah, that's the plan! More government! That'll save the shipwrecked Republicans.
More government. Lots more.
| 32 |
pingjockey Wed, May 27, 2009 8:46:13pm |
re: #29 Last Mohican
I hear he runs a mean Bar B Q at Camden Yards.
| 34 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 8:46:51pm |
| 36 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 8:47:16pm |
re: #33 little boomer
That explains why I didn't know....
Thanks
| 37 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:47:21pm |
re: #22 Charles
Oh, I don't know. Just guessing, but maybe the fact that he voted for Republicans every year since Ronald Reagan, and worked in high offices under both Bush presidencies?
He also voted for Barack Obama and Jimmy Carter.
| 38 |
Cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 8:47:22pm |
re: #22 Charles
That means he used to be a Republican, although I'll bet he never had a clear idea of how that is any different from a Democrat. Career-wise, he probably saw it as a good move.
I'll go out on a limb here -- an informed person could not have voted for Obama and still credibly claim to be a Republican.
| 40 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 8:48:00pm |
re: #6 WindHorse
I do too. Odd that both a sides want him to keep talking.
| 43 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:48:29pm |
re: #24 Last Mohican
You mean, in hindsight, you think that supporting Obama was the right thing for the country?
Yes. Conservatives have shown some very bad instincts regarding the financial meltdown. Mainstreaming Paulian economics, Glenn Beck, Tea Parties, Fair Tax, Gold Standard, etc. McCain admitted he didn't understand economics. That's a very bad move in the midst of an economic crisis. Palin was not ready for national politics and probably never will be. I know she excited the base but she's not very bright and should never be put in a position to run a country.
| 44 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 8:48:42pm |
re: #38 Cicero05
That means he used to be a Republican, although I'll bet he never had a clear idea of how that is any different from a Democrat. Career-wise, he probably saw it as a good move.
I'll go out on a limb here -- an informed person could not have voted for Obama and still credibly claim to be a Republican.
So I guess Dick Cheney must have gone nuts. Some bad seafood, maybe?
| 46 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 8:49:01pm |
| 48 |
chukardog Wed, May 27, 2009 8:49:38pm |
Powell is a disgrace to the party. I lost almost all respect for him when he endorsed Chairman zero. What is it that he believes in that makes him a conservative? Anyone? His little speach explaining why he was endorsing Obama defied all logic. He's dead to me.
| 49 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 8:49:39pm |
| 50 |
redshirt Wed, May 27, 2009 8:50:40pm |
re: #22 Charles
Oh, I don't know. Just guessing, but maybe the fact that he voted for Republicans every year since Ronald Reagan, and worked in high offices under both Bush presidencies?
Charles, please explain how someone can go from being a Reagan man to a supporter of Obama? What happened to Powell to cause the ideological 180? Did he really think McCain Palin was a worse choice that Obama Biden?
Hell, at least the republicans put their rookie in the number 2 spot.
| 51 |
bosforus Wed, May 27, 2009 8:50:43pm |
So which is? Sounds like a job for a poll.
Colin Powell is a...
1) Democrat
2) Republican
3) Paulian
4) [fill in the blank]
| 52 |
pingjockey Wed, May 27, 2009 8:50:47pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
I suppose obambi and his crowd understand the economic mess better?
| 53 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:50:54pm |
| 54 |
Rexatosis Wed, May 27, 2009 8:50:54pm |
Gen. Powell is not running for office as a Republican, he votes for the Democrats, Supports Pres. Obama and he is the answer to the GOPs problems? That's like saying RedSox nation should support Johnny Damon since he defines what it means to be a Royal Rooter of the old hometown team. (NOT-- He's a damn bleeping Yankee!)
| 55 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:50:57pm |
re: #44 Charles
So I guess Dick Cheney must have gone nuts. Some bad seafood, maybe?
Hmmm. Eating lizards can do that too.
| 56 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 8:50:57pm |
The moral of this thread so far: not even Dick Cheney can talk the hardheads down off the ledge.
| 57 |
Kragar Wed, May 27, 2009 8:51:04pm |
re: #44 Charles
So I guess Dick Cheney must have gone nuts. Some bad seafood, maybe?
A blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato?
| 58 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 8:51:48pm |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I got a call tonight from the CA Republican Party taking credit for defeating the budget initiatives and saying they were all set to put me down for a $100 donation.
I bet they were.
I do not belong to any political party. I give exactly squat to political parties.
| 59 |
researchok Wed, May 27, 2009 8:52:08pm |
re: #56 Charles
The moral of this thread so far: not even Dick Cheney can talk the hardheads down off the ledge.
You have to want to be talked down.
| 60 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:52:08pm |
re: #56 Charles
Everything must run its course.
| 61 |
HelloDare Wed, May 27, 2009 8:52:46pm |
I wonder what names Harry Belafonte is calling Powell these days.
"There is an old saying, in the days of slavery. There were those slaves who lived on the plantation, and there were those slaves who lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master, do exactly the way the master intended to have you serve him. That gave you privilege. Colin Powell is committed to come into the house of the master, as long as he would serve the master, according to the master's purpose. And when Colin Powell dares to suggest something other than what the master wants to hear, he will be turned back out to pasture. And you don't hear much from those who live in the pasture." Belafonte used the quote to characterize both former and current United States Secretary of State Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, both blacks. Powell and Rice both responded, with Powell calling the remarks "unfortunate"[18] and Rice saying "I don't need Harry Belafonte to tell me what it means to be black".
| 62 |
Cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 8:52:57pm |
re: #44 Charles
There's a big difference between a diplomatic "we're happy to have Powell in the Republican Party" and "Powell is important to the Republican Party." Cheney said the former, not the latter. It's kind of like, "thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart." Doesn't mean much.
| 63 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 8:53:09pm |
I am a FRINO.
Former RINO.
When I first joined the Republican Party, I was a former Democrat who wanted a strong defense, a smaller federal government, preservation of individual freedoms and judges who rule on law and not on whim.
But I guess I failed the various and constantly changing litmus tests of the SoCons. For one thing, I don't mind if two men have sex with each other. For another thing, I happen to think creationists are full of shit. I also think religion and politics don't mix, and can show anyone a long history of warfare and social unrest as support for my last assertion.
So I was called a RINO by many (including Laura Ingraham when I called in once on her show) because I was not a real Republican because I was "soft" on social issues.
I am a Republican no more and posted a week or so ago the incident that pushed me over the edge.
And I have to say I love the freedom of not caring one god damned bit about the fate of the Republican Party, or watching more words for fear of offending someone in the "big tent".
A small part of the tent took over. It is now a revival tent, and I don't speak in tongues.
| 64 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 8:53:12pm |
re: #44 Charles
Charles, I don't understand. Did Cheney vote for Obama too?
| 65 |
wee fury Wed, May 27, 2009 8:53:25pm |
I respect both Colin Powell and Dick Cheney. But, then again, I'm not a Republican -- I'm an Independent voter.
| 66 |
Miss Molly Wed, May 27, 2009 8:53:40pm |
I don't have a whole lot of faith in Powell.I have always thought he early on stuck with the Republicans because that was where his opportunities were and then bolted for Obama because that is really where his heart lies plus he is looking for opportunities for himself.
| 67 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 8:53:55pm |
re: #63 karmic_inquisitor
FRINO Uber Alles!
| 68 |
bloodnok Wed, May 27, 2009 8:53:57pm |
re: #48 chukardog
Powell is a disgrace to the party. I lost almost all respect for him when he endorsed Chairman zero. What is it that he believes in that makes him a conservative? Anyone? His little speach explaining why he was endorsing Obama defied all logic. He's dead to me.
As long as you're rational about it...
/
| 69 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 8:54:46pm |
Seems to me that when Bush beat Kerry, the Dems were going through this kind of internal squabbling. Solution? They found their candidate, and it was a tumultuous neck and neck race between Hilary and Obama. Things change quickly in politics, especially for those who do not have the power.
| 70 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 8:54:53pm |
re: #25 Killgore Trout
Just because the base was excited doesn't mean squat to the moderates. It's not difficult to excite partisans. The tricky part is gaining the attention of people who are objectively looking at both sides to see who has the better ideas.
Partisans aren't a sure-vote either. They may never vote for the other side, but they will withhold their vote out of disgust for their own side. There were lots of people on the right who felt that it was better to not vote and teach the Republicans a lesson who changed their mind because of Palin. I was going to vote against Obama irregardless of who McCain's VP was, but there were a lot of people who were fed up with big government Republicanism who had to be wooed.
| 71 |
american sabra Wed, May 27, 2009 8:55:31pm |
Here is the transcript of Powell explaining why he's coming out of the closet (isn't that an eye catcher)!
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
And interestingly enough, in this Oct 2008 interview, he clearly says he's a Republican so Cheney was just getting his digs in.
But I guess as they say, it's all good...
(I like Powell, btw.)
| 72 |
wkeller Wed, May 27, 2009 8:55:34pm |
I guess I’m a little confused here. Powell openly endorsed Obama and claims he voted for him. McCain seemed to meet all the criteria Powell now claims he’s looking for. So how does he consider himself a Republican if he takes a pass on McCain to vote for Obama? He also acknowledges he has voted for a host of Democrat candidates in the past. So color me skeptical but that would disqualify him as a Republican to me.
How about this: if he wants the support of the conservatives in the Republican Party, what does he stand for? What is his solution for GITMO? How about Iraq? Iran? Af-Pak? N. Korea? What would he do in the first 100 days? How about the deficit? The banks? Auto companies? How about the security of the country? For a man who rails against the conservatives in the party, he offers no alternatives – nothing.
As for being more inclusive – to what point? McCain was to the left of Hillary and Obama still got elected. Is there simply no line left in the Republican Party? None? Then we should simply all join the Democrats in their plunge left and lean back as our country plunges into bankruptcy and a pre-9/11 mindset on security.
If this is where we are headed, participation by the conservatives in the party is meaningless anyway, the outcome for the country would be exactly the same if one of the new Republicans that Powell in yearning for were elected.
| 73 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 8:55:46pm |
re: #50 redshirt
Charles, please explain how someone can go from being a Reagan man to a supporter of Obama? What happened to Powell to cause the ideological 180? Did he really think McCain Palin was a worse choice that Obama Biden?
Hell, at least the republicans put their rookie in the number 2 spot.
I can speak for my best friend, a life long Republican woman that dropped McCain with the Palin pick. She was not happy voting for a Democrat and will probably shift back given a decent choice in 2012. She's still registered Republican and calls herself one.
| 74 |
pingjockey Wed, May 27, 2009 8:56:43pm |
It doesn't matter if General Powell is in the party or not. Until the socons are marginalized the Repubs will never appeal to the middle and they're running die hard conservatives like me out with this religious BS.
| 75 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 8:56:43pm |
I'm underwhelmed by Powell's contribution to the party.
Remember, here's a guy who could have had the nomination for the asking at some point (er, was that 2000? I forget). Of either party, more than likely. And he whimped out, on both. Maybe that was the real wisdom.
I think he was a poor secretary of state, and of course he went through that humiliation about WMD, and found himself fighting with Cheney and Rumsfeld.
He was a better Chairman in the Pentagon, but I'm not sure where he goes now, ... or why I should care.
| 76 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 8:56:45pm |
re: #73 avanti
I can speak for my best friend, a life long Republican woman that dropped McCain with the Palin pick. She was not happy voting for a Democrat and will probably shift back given a decent choice in 2012. She's still registered Republican and calls herself one.
Because Joe Biden is such a great choice.
| 77 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 8:56:57pm |
re: #62 Cicero05
At least when you shop at WalMart, they check your cart to see if you've stolen something.
Powell probably has Obama buttons sewn into his underwear.
Cheney was being threateningly polite, like a traffic cop.
| 78 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 8:57:06pm |
Powell served this country for his entire career. I will always respect that. I don't have to like his opinions or his choices. I also don't have to understand them.
Powell is his own man. I do think he makes the choices he thinks are best. I don't give a d@mn about any party.
I do wish there was a party I respected as much as I respect certain individuals.
| 79 |
Kragar Wed, May 27, 2009 8:57:07pm |
I keep getting the feeling this is what the Democrats AND the Republican parties are evolving into.
| 80 |
The Shadow Do Wed, May 27, 2009 8:58:18pm |
The lack of discourse all around is astonishing. Way too many fucking purists.
| 81 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 8:58:26pm |
re: #72 wkeller
So color me skeptical but that would disqualify him as a Republican to me.
You must be a more loyal Republican than Dick Cheney, then. Congrats!
| 82 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 8:59:02pm |
Wow. I liked Dick Cheney back when he wasn't cool, and lots of people were calling for impeachments and trials at The Hague.
Suddenly, Cheney can speak without Nazi references or shouts of "Halliburton" and "No Blood For Oil".
/I feel like a trendsetter
| 83 |
freetoken Wed, May 27, 2009 8:59:24pm |
re: #63 karmic_inquisitor
And I have to say I love the freedom of not caring one god damned bit about the fate of the Republican Party, or watching more words for fear of offending someone in the "big tent".
As do I.
| 84 |
Fierce Guppy Wed, May 27, 2009 8:59:56pm |
Tony.
| 85 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 8:59:57pm |
re: #80 The Shadow Do
The lack of discourse all around is astonishing. Way too many fucking purists.
What is astounding is how many people "in the middle" don't actually give a fuck or bother to vote.
| 86 |
HelloDare Wed, May 27, 2009 9:00:04pm |
| 87 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 9:00:14pm |
re: #80 The Shadow Do
The lack of discourse all around is astonishing. Way too many fucking purists.
I don't agree. In their campaigns they are pure and different. In their seats they become like all the rest. When they are trumping for a seat, they lie like nobody's business--excepting the occasional few who have integrity. Very few.
| 88 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:00:23pm |
Well I liked Colin Powell from the first days he beame known.
I like him now.
I don't agree with him on some things, but I like him. I don't agree with his presidential endorsement either. But I still like the guy.
You don't have to bear ill-will towards people you disagree with.
| 89 |
bosforus Wed, May 27, 2009 9:00:38pm |
re: #82 OldLineTexan
Wow. I liked Dick Cheney back when he wasn't cool...
/I feel like a trendsetter
Ha ha ha!
I liked Cheney before it was cool to like Cheney.
| 90 |
bloodnok Wed, May 27, 2009 9:00:43pm |
re: #81 Charles
You must be a more loyal Republican than Dick Cheney, then. Congrats!
Cheney said it, but he didn't meeeeeeeean it!
///
| 91 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:00:43pm |
Has Powell expressed any 'buyer's remorse' about 0bama or his policies?
Kinda hard for me to take him seriously when he pulled the lever for the used car salesman in the first place.
| 92 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 9:01:09pm |
I got no problem with Colin Powell. He does what he does for his own reasons. No one can ever call him an Uncle Tom again.
| 93 |
American Sabra Wed, May 27, 2009 9:01:22pm |
Off to bed. I'll be back when there's 1000 posts and everybody left lol
| 94 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:01:50pm |
re: #76 OldLineTexan
Because Joe Biden is such a great choice.
Biden is a gaff machine, but he does have some real world experience and is also unlikely to have to fill in as POTUS.
| 95 |
Cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:02:57pm |
re: #94 avanti
Biden is a gaff machine, but he does have some real world experience and is also unlikely to have to fill in as POTUS.
That's the first positive thing I've ever heard anyone say about Joe Biden. What a night.
| 96 |
pingjockey Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:01pm |
re: #92 Racer X
Sure they can. You wait, if he supports the repub running against the one
he'll be called an uncle tom by all the usual suspects.
| 97 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:01pm |
re: #88 karmic_inquisitor
Well I liked Colin Powell from the first days he beame known.
I like him now.
I don't agree with him on some things, but I like him. I don't agree with his presidential endorsement either. But I still like the guy.
You don't have to bear ill-will towards people you disagree with.
I tend to think that the biggest problem we have in politics today (on both sides) is the complete inability to disagree without demonizing our opponents. It's not enough that someone disagrees with an opinion they must be (___insert mean name here__). It's making it harder all the time to find rational voices on either side.
| 98 |
Miss Molly Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:07pm |
I thought Powell's comment about Americans wanting bigger gov't and wanted to "pay more taxes for more services" was weird. To me it underscores how little he really understands of either politics and especially economics. He may have fit into the military very well but I don't think he is very good on issues outside the military.
| 99 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:13pm |
re: #63 karmic_inquisitor
And I have to say I love the freedom of not caring one god damned bit about the fate of the Republican Party, or watching more words for fear of offending someone in the "big tent".
A small part of the tent took over. It is now a revival tent, and I don't speak in tongues.
Feels good, don't it? F 'em if they won't get the message.
Amen and upding
| 100 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:20pm |
re: #89 bosforus
Ha ha ha!
I liked Cheney before it was cool to like Cheney.
I remember talking to more than one person in the 2000 election who wasn't the least bit impressed with Bush or Gore....but thought each campaign made great picks for their respective veeps and half-serisouly wishing for a Cheney/Lieberman ticket.
| 101 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:24pm |
Powell is almost as Republican as Arlen Spector.
Oh, wait....
Gilbert and Sullivan: "When everybody's somebody, then no one's anybody."
| 102 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:32pm |
I have already prepared my dairy feast, New York Cheesecake and Cheese Blintzes. Now I also have to make a meat feast. Chicken soup is already in the freezer. I bought a boneless turkey roll--all dark meat--what kind of stuffing should I make with it? Red potatoes or sweet potatoes?
| 103 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:32pm |
re: #8 westtexasjew
That's what will help the Republican Party - voting for Obama.
Why stop at only one North Korea?
GAZE
| 104 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:50pm |
re: #81 Charles
You must be a more loyal Republican than Dick Cheney, then. Congrats!
Ah, now I understand what you're getting at.
This business about being a true, loyal, hard-core, through-and-through Republican, and putting down others who supposedly aren't, is really off-putting to me. What does it mean? Can you do a blood test and find out who's a real Republican, who's just kind of a Republican, and who's a stinking RINO?
I've said it before, I think "RINO" has joined "neocon" and "Zionist" among terms that usually just reflect poorly on the person using them, more than they describe the person they're used about.
That said, I'm not a big fan of Colin Powell.
| 105 |
The Shadow Do Wed, May 27, 2009 9:03:56pm |
re: #85 OldLineTexan
What is astounding is how many people "in the middle" don't actually give a fuck or bother to vote.
The squishy ones
| 106 |
JustMyView Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:00pm |
re: #66 Miss Molly
I don't have a whole lot of faith in Powell.I have always thought he early on stuck with the Republicans because that was where his opportunities were and then bolted for Obama because that is really where his heart lies plus he is looking for opportunities for himself.
The idea that Colin Powell needs opportunities is absurd. He is 72 years old. He has been Secretary of State, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Advisor, and a four-star general. He can make thousands of dollars by giving a speech whenever he is so inclined, and he is deeply involved in philanthropic work having to do with minority youth. Do you really think he needs a job? Or, that if he wanted one, he couldn't get one?
| 107 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:09pm |
re: #94 avanti
Biden is a gaff machine, but he does have some real world experience and is also unlikely to have to fill in as POTUS.
Whereas Obama is LESS experienced that Palin in that same real world.
I will also bet you that McCain outlives Biden ... he's a tough old bird.
| 108 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:31pm |
re: #88 karmic_inquisitor
Well I liked Colin Powell from the first days he beame known.
I like him now.
I don't agree with him on some things, but I like him. I don't agree with his presidential endorsement either. But I still like the guy.
You don't have to bear ill-will towards people you disagree with.
Traitor! RINO! You're just like Andrew Sullivan now! Delete my account immediately!
Oh. Wait.
| 109 |
redshirt Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:33pm |
re: #73 avanti
I can speak for my best friend, a life long Republican woman that dropped McCain with the Palin pick. She was not happy voting for a Democrat and will probably shift back given a decent choice in 2012. She's still registered Republican and calls herself one.
Has your friend admitted she made a horrible mistake yet? Please explain how dislike of Palin can cause you to vote for a man whose values are nothing like your own.
| 110 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:43pm |
re: #91 Fenway_Nation
Has Powell expressed any 'buyer's remorse' about 0bama or his policies?
Kinda hard for me to take him seriously when he pulled the lever for the used car salesman in the first place.
Well think of how powerful and credible a voice he will have when the day comes where he unloads on Obama for running up unfathomable debts with nothing to show for it but the loyalty of political hacks.
| 111 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:47pm |
re: #101 westtexasjew
Powell is almost as Republican as Arlen Spector.
Oh, wait....Gilbert and Sullivan: "When everybody's somebody, then no one's anybody."
upding for g&s.
| 112 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:47pm |
I don't pay much attention to Powell, but working for Bush and then voting for O in the same 6 year span doesn't look to good for his convictions. How is he not like 90% of all politicians? GOP liked him because he was black, a war hero, and a Republican--now they don't like him because? This is all posturing and ultimately will decide nothing.
| 113 |
pingjockey Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:48pm |
re: #94 avanti
What real world experience? Being a Senator?
| 114 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:49pm |
re: #63 karmic_inquisitor
I am a FRINO.
Former RINO.
When I first joined the Republican Party, I was a former Democrat who wanted a strong defense, a smaller federal government, preservation of individual freedoms and judges who rule on law and not on whim.
But I guess I failed the various and constantly changing litmus tests of the SoCons. For one thing, I don't mind if two men have sex with each other. For another thing, I happen to think creationists are full of shit. I also think religion and politics don't mix, and can show anyone a long history of warfare and social unrest as support for my last assertion.
So I was called a RINO by many (including Laura Ingraham when I called in once on her show) because I was not a real Republican because I was "soft" on social issues.
I am a Republican no more and posted a week or so ago the incident that pushed me over the edge.
And I have to say I love the freedom of not caring one god damned bit about the fate of the Republican Party, or watching more words for fear of offending someone in the "big tent".
A small part of the tent took over. It is now a revival tent, and I don't speak in tongues.
Concur.
| 115 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:04:52pm |
re: #102 Alouette
I have already prepared my dairy feast, New York Cheesecake and Cheese Blintzes. Now I also have to make a meat feast. Chicken soup is already in the freezer. I bought a boneless turkey roll--all dark meat--what kind of stuffing should I make with it? Red potatoes or sweet potatoes?
I vote for red potatoes....but i'm not a sweet potato fan
| 116 |
WindHorse Wed, May 27, 2009 9:05:19pm |
re: #94 avanti
yes.... and all of Biden's experience is bad.... thanks to Joe Biden....
| 117 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:05:29pm |
Apparently I am to typos what VP Biden is to gaffes.
| 119 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:06:20pm |
re: #110 karmic_inquisitor
Well think of how powerful and credible a voice he will have when the day comes where he unloads on Obama for running up unfathomable debts with nothing to show for it but the loyalty of political hacks.
I gotta admit I haven't thought of it that way.....but the thing is, will that day come?
| 120 |
The Shadow Do Wed, May 27, 2009 9:06:23pm |
re: #87 JohnAdams
I don't agree. In their campaigns they are pure and different. In their seats they become like all the rest. When they are trumping for a seat, they lie like nobody's business--excepting the occasional few who have integrity. Very few.
Neither do I agree. They all campaign for the undefined middle - no purity there. Lying of course is a given.
| 122 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:06:50pm |
re: #98 Miss Molly
I thought Powell's comment about Americans wanting bigger gov't and wanted to "pay more taxes for more services" was weird. To me it underscores how little he really understands of either politics and especially economics. He may have fit into the military very well but I don't think he is very good on issues outside the military.
I think he has a point. Because of whatever reasons, people do look for the government to "help" them. Self-reliance is a dying trait. I blame public school, but there isn't just one reason.
I work with a lot of young people and people who depend on minimum wage incomes. The difference in my way of thinking and their is huge.
The point is, perhaps, to see what we can do to change this trend.
| 123 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:07:09pm |
re: #90 bloodnok
Cheney said it, but he didn't meeeeeeeean it!
///
That's the beauty of it, no one can say Cheney isn't true Republican. His loyalty is above reproach and he might be the leader who can stop the GOP from devouring itself.
| 124 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 9:07:16pm |
re: #102 Alouette
I have already prepared my dairy feast, New York Cheesecake and Cheese Blintzes. Now I also have to make a meat feast. Chicken soup is already in the freezer. I bought a boneless turkey roll--all dark meat--what kind of stuffing should I make with it? Red potatoes or sweet potatoes?
sweet potato stuffing? interesting ...
| 125 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:07:18pm |
re: #70 SeafoodGumbo
Exciting the base is not necessarily a good thing. Things exciting the base now include: Tea Parties, Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Lew Rockwell, Alex Jones, Judge Nepalitano, Nirth Certifikit, DHS Memos, FEMA camps, Secession, armed revolution. Very exciting to the base but rational thinking people can't get away fast enough.
| 126 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:07:20pm |
re: #95 Cicero05
That's the first positive thing I've ever heard anyone say about Joe Biden. What a night.
I remember a note back before the election about how Biden was supposedly pretty sharp when he was dealing with Bosnia. Under what offices, I can't recall.
That was then, though. I keep thinking back to the post here from a person with an inside track to the beltway, who said that Biden's people were reporting what sounded to him like alzheimer's-like symptoms.
| 127 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 9:07:33pm |
In my perhaps-hazy recollection, the question of whom Powell was going to endorse never even seemed to come up, until he showed up on Meet the Press and said that he respected McCain, but that he was deeply disappointed with some bad choices that McCain had made recently. He didn't elaborate then, but I got the feeling he meant only one thing: picking Sarah Palin.
| 128 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:07:51pm |
re: #102 Alouette
I have already prepared my dairy feast, New York Cheesecake and Cheese Blintzes. Now I also have to make a meat feast. Chicken soup is already in the freezer. I bought a boneless turkey roll--all dark meat--what kind of stuffing should I make with it? Red potatoes or sweet potatoes?
Red, sauteed with garlic.
Lots of garlic.
| 129 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, May 27, 2009 9:07:56pm |
re: #115 srb1976
I vote for red potatoes....but i'm not a sweet potato fan
You haven't had sweet potatoes if you have them the way most people prepare them for Thanksgiving--gaggingly sweet in a puddle of maple syrup or brown sugar, and all covered with marshmallows. I make mine cut in half lengthwise, and drizzles with some olive oil, salt and pepper and baked.
| 130 |
The Shadow Do Wed, May 27, 2009 9:08:00pm |
re: #94 avanti
Biden is a gaff machine, but he does have some real world experience and is also unlikely to have to fill in as POTUS.
What a ridiculous statement.
| 131 |
WindHorse Wed, May 27, 2009 9:08:35pm |
re: #126 Pawn of the Oppressor
I think the reference to Biden about being sharp was that he had a pointy head.........
| 132 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, May 27, 2009 9:08:49pm |
re: #128 ggt
Red, sauteed with garlic.
Lots of garlic.
I am leaning to the red. Peeled or not? Red also makes knockout potato salad!
| 133 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:08:57pm |
All your excited base are belong to us.
/I made a funny
| 134 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 9:09:00pm |
We shouldn't have brought up Ayers:
"...And I've also been disappointed, frankly, by some of the approaches that Senator McCain has taken recently, or his campaign ads, on issues that are not really central to the problems that the American people are worried about. This Bill Ayers situation that's been going on for weeks became something of a central point of the campaign... ...trying to suggest that, because of this very, very limited relationship that Senator Obama has had with Mr. Ayers, somehow, Mr. Obama is tainted. What they're trying to connect him to is some kind of terrorist feelings. And I think that's inappropriate."
| 135 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:09:06pm |
re: #122 ggt
I think he has a point. Because of whatever reasons, people do look for the government to "help" them. Self-reliance is a dying trait. I blame public school, but there isn't just one reason.
I work with a lot of young people and people who depend on minimum wage incomes. The difference in my way of thinking and their is huge.
The point is, perhaps, to see what we can do to change this trend.
I agree about the decline of self reliance, it seems that it is a trait that is punished more often than it is rewarded anymore. I'm not sure how to get it back either.
| 136 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:09:35pm |
re: #119 Fenway_Nation
I gotta admit I haven't thought of it that way.....but the thing is, will that day come?
Seems to me that he is paving the foundation for that day. Just as he paved the foundation for the endorsement, which was big news when it happened. Powell is a good PR guy - which you have to be to rise to the rank that he did in the Army.
| 137 |
twincitiesgirl Wed, May 27, 2009 9:09:37pm |
We need more people like Dick Cheney in the Republican party. Articulate, intelligent, able to think on his feet with no need of a teleprompter to tell him what to say.
We miss you Mr Cheney!
| 138 |
bosforus Wed, May 27, 2009 9:09:55pm |
re: #133 Killgore Trout
All your excited base are belong to us.
/I made a funny
The Republican party has no chance to survive. Make your time.
| 139 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 9:09:58pm |
re: #120 The Shadow Do
Neither do I agree. They all campaign for the undefined middle - no purity there. Lying of course is a given.
Sadly the "undefined middle" usually swings elections based on the same sorts of tactics that get people to watch TV programs, buy laundry detergent, or invest their 401k.
Sorry...that may seem cynical but I believe it to be true of the current state or our democracy.
| 140 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 9:10:04pm |
re: #134 SeafoodGumbo
I hadn't heard that quote. Did Powell say it?
| 141 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:10:18pm |
re: #109 redshirt
Has your friend admitted she made a horrible mistake yet? Please explain how dislike of Palin can cause you to vote for a man whose values are nothing like your own.
In her case she liked Obama personally, but was still voting McCain, but the Palin pick was a insult to her, she took it as pandering.
It happened for a lot of voters, sometimes beyond explanation, BHO pulled a lot of cross over votes.
| 142 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:10:41pm |
re: #129 Alouette
You haven't had sweet potatoes if you have them the way most people prepare them for Thanksgiving--gaggingly sweet in a puddle of maple syrup or brown sugar, and all covered with marshmallows. I make mine cut in half lengthwise, and drizzles with some olive oil, salt and pepper and baked.
It's not the taste, actually, they taste pretty good (grandma mashes them and tops them with a brown sugar, coconut and pecan crust) it's the texture...the stringiness bothers me...it's odd
| 143 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 9:10:44pm |
re: #102 Alouette
Cheesecake and blintzes... when you're my age, that much milkikhes will require two Zocor.
I hope that wasn't a knock on Cheney...
| 144 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:11:09pm |
re: #129 Alouette
You haven't had sweet potatoes if you have them the way most people prepare them for Thanksgiving--gaggingly sweet in a puddle of maple syrup or brown sugar, and all covered with marshmallows. I make mine cut in half lengthwise, and drizzles with some olive oil, salt and pepper and baked.
No garlic?
| 145 |
jvic Wed, May 27, 2009 9:11:21pm |
Unless somebody asks, I'm not going to post links because this stuff is readily available:
1. During his endorsement, Powell said he would not campaign for Obama. I haven't seen any reports that he broke that pledge.
2. Flaming liberal George Will also all but endorsed Obama, stating that McCain was temperamentally unfit to be President.
3. McCain could--maybe should--have pulled off the upset. The GOP had hit on the right non-nasty tone to mock Obama with, and McCain briefly took a lead in the polls. He threw it all away with his erratic reaction to the financial crisis. McCain, not Powell, threw it away.
*****************
There are people who don't belong in the Big Tent. Colin Powell is not one of them.
| 147 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:11:31pm |
BTW - I like Dick Cheney too.
A person can like both Powell and Cheney without suffering an existential crisis.
| 148 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:11:37pm |
re: #132 Alouette
I am leaning to the red. Peeled or not? Red also makes knockout potato salad!
Unpeeled.
| 149 |
The Shadow Do Wed, May 27, 2009 9:11:52pm |
re: #122 ggt
I think he has a point. Because of whatever reasons, people do look for the government to "help" them. Self-reliance is a dying trait. I blame public school, but there isn't just one reason.
I work with a lot of young people and people who depend on minimum wage incomes. The difference in my way of thinking and their is huge.
The point is, perhaps, to see what we can do to change this trend.
Nothing new under the sun. Think "a chicken in every pot".
| 150 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:12:00pm |
re: #129 Alouette
You haven't had sweet potatoes if you have them the way most people prepare them for Thanksgiving--gaggingly sweet in a puddle of maple syrup or brown sugar, and all covered with marshmallows. I make mine cut in half lengthwise, and drizzles with some olive oil, salt and pepper and baked.
I'll do some sweet potato recipes for the next cookbook. Most people don't appreciate them anymore from the marshmallow/orange juice crap they've been served too many times. They are actually very delicious, nutritious, and very American when done right.
| 151 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 9:12:22pm |
re: #141 avanti
In her case she liked Obama personally, but was still voting McCain, but the Palin pick was a insult to her, she took it as pandering.
It happened for a lot of voters, sometimes beyond explanation, BHO pulled a lot of cross over votes.
Oh yes, if you hate "pandering", you would definitely vote Obama.
/
| 152 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:12:40pm |
re: #138 bosforus
The Republican party has no chance to survive. Make your time.
Given that the Zero Wing villain is called Cats, I'd just answer:
"Just hold on a minute while I roll up my magazine, then we'll see who learns a lesson."
| 153 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, May 27, 2009 9:12:44pm |
| 154 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 9:12:47pm |
re: #129 Alouette
You haven't had sweet potatoes if you have them the way most people prepare them for Thanksgiving--gaggingly sweet in a puddle of maple syrup or brown sugar, and all covered with marshmallows. I make mine cut in half lengthwise, and drizzles with some olive oil, salt and pepper and baked.
tempura style, fried slices, oh yes ...
but with turkey, I dunno.
| 155 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:12:49pm |
re: #141 avanti
In her case she liked Obama personally, but was still voting McCain, but the Palin pick was a insult to her, she took it as pandering.
.
That describes my wife (who is still a Republican). Voted McCain despite Palin.
| 156 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:02pm |
re: #138 bosforus
The Republican party has no chance to survive. Make your time.
They'll squeak it out in the next decade or two.
| 157 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:02pm |
re: #147 karmic_inquisitor
BTW - I like Dick Cheney too.
A person can like both Powell and Cheney without suffering an existential crisis.
But did your back go out? ;~)
| 158 |
JacksonTn Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:07pm |
re: #134 SeafoodGumbo
We shouldn't have brought up Ayers:
Seafood ... How in the hell can he say that ... how does he know what kind of relationship The Won had with Ayers ... how? ... because he said he was "just a guy in the neighborhood? ... I don't believe it for one dang second ... I cannot recall a candidate who was surrounded by so many who were so creepy before and it just slide off his back ... PERFECT STORM! ...
Even throwing to the side all the really stupid stuff about Obama like the birth certificate and some other dumb things ... there are still so many unanswered questions ... I just will never understand it ... never ... sad situation in this country when McCain, Palin, Biden and Obama are the only ones we have to put up ... sad ...
| 159 |
jcm Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:18pm |
re: #135 srb1976
I agree about the decline of self reliance, it seems that it is a trait that is punished more often than it is rewarded anymore. I'm not sure how to get it back either.
Quit padding life's hard edges. Make a choice, take responsibility, live with the consequences.
Course, that's what liberals do, take the pain out of life's choices.
| 160 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:40pm |
re: #135 srb1976
I agree about the decline of self reliance, it seems that it is a trait that is punished more often than it is rewarded anymore. I'm not sure how to get it back either.
Tough Love? Contraception?
I think we really have to concentrate on convincing those who are not prepared to raise children not to conceive them.
The whole octo-mom thing has put me over the top on this subject.
| 162 |
Rexatosis Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:52pm |
Just to be clear on my position regarding Gen. Powell. I think he has served his country with distinction. However I lost a ton of respect for him when he knowingly hung Scooter Libby out to dry for what his subordinate Richard Armitage did. While I can understand RINOs breaking from the party over hard-core Social Conservatives, it is beyond me to vote for a candidate left of Teddy Kennedy for President and still consider oneself a Republican. If that makes me a "purist" then the "purist" tent is getting pretty damn big (of course living in the Northeast there hasn't been a "purist" to vote for..ever).
| 163 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:54pm |
re: #131 WindHorse
I think the reference to Biden about being sharp was that he had a pointy head.........
Nope, this was a genuinely positive appraisal of the man's abilities. I want to say it was at someplace like Slate or Salon, one of the left-leaning internut mags.
And it remains the only positive assessment of Biden that I've ever seen, if I don't count Peggy Noonan describing him "affectionately" as being somewhat like a favorite drunken uncle at a family gathering.
| 164 |
The Shadow Do Wed, May 27, 2009 9:13:56pm |
re: #139 JohnAdams
Sadly the "undefined middle" usually swings elections based on the same sorts of tactics that get people to watch TV programs, buy laundry detergent, or invest their 401k.
Sorry...that may seem cynical but I believe it to be true of the current state or our democracy.
Not new. Think Andrew Jackson.
| 165 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:14:51pm |
re: #129 Alouette
You haven't had sweet potatoes if you have them the way most people prepare them for Thanksgiving--gaggingly sweet in a puddle of maple syrup or brown sugar, and all covered with marshmallows. I make mine cut in half lengthwise, and drizzles with some olive oil, salt and pepper and baked.
You can also cut them into slices and steam them until just tender.
They don't need anything else.
| 167 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 9:15:10pm |
re: #162 Rexatosis
Just to be clear on my position regarding Gen. Powell. I think he has served his country with distinction. However I lost a ton of respect for him when he knowingly hung Scooter Libby out to dry for what his subordinate Richard Armitage did.
um yeah.
| 168 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:15:11pm |
re: #145 jvic
Absolutely right about McCain having blown it on the financial crisis.
| 169 |
Velvet Elvis Wed, May 27, 2009 9:15:30pm |
re: #63 karmic_inquisitor
But I guess I failed the various and constantly changing litmus tests of the SoCons. For one thing, I don't mind if two men have sex with each other. For another thing, I happen to think creationists are full of shit. I also think religion and politics don't mix, and can show anyone a long history of warfare and social unrest as support for my last assertion.
Thanks you. If you charge religious institutions with providing for social welfare needs and then have a minimalist federal government you end up with something like Hamas.
| 170 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:15:40pm |
re: #150 Killgore Trout
I'll do some sweet potato recipes for the next cookbook. Most people don't appreciate them anymore from the marshmallow/orange juice crap they've been served too many times. They are actually very delicious, nutritious, and very American when done right.
For THIS upcoming cookbook, or are you anticipating there will be a Volume 3?
| 171 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:15:45pm |
| 172 |
The Shadow Do Wed, May 27, 2009 9:15:49pm |
re: #145 jvic
Unless somebody asks, I'm not going to post links because this stuff is readily available:
1. During his endorsement, Powell said he would not campaign for Obama. I haven't seen any reports that he broke that pledge.
2. Flaming liberal George Will also all but endorsed Obama, stating that McCain was temperamentally unfit to be President.
3. McCain could--maybe should--have pulled off the upset. The GOP had hit on the right non-nasty tone to mock Obama with, and McCain briefly took a lead in the polls. He threw it all away with his erratic reaction to the financial crisis. McCain, not Powell, threw it away.
*****************
There are people who don't belong in the Big Tent. Colin Powell is not one of them.
Pup tent for you?
| 174 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:16:06pm |
re: #155 karmic_inquisitor
That describes my wife (who is still a Republican). Voted McCain despite Palin.
I voted McCain against Obama, but I was happy with the Palin pick.... and not because of the whole "identity politics" thing either. It had a lot to with a single veto she cast. Long story short, acted in accordance with the current law and against her own beliefs. (had to do with civil union benefits for gay couples employed by the state).
Probably a silly reason, but nice to have evidence that someone can seperate the person from the political.
| 175 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 9:16:18pm |
re: #108 Charles
Traitor! RINO! You're just like Andrew Sullivan now! Delete my account immediately!
Oh. Wait.
Sucks when you can't even get in a good flounce.
/
| 176 |
WindHorse Wed, May 27, 2009 9:16:27pm |
re: #163 Pawn of the Oppressor
Anyone can say anything. That doesn't necessarily make it so....
| 177 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 9:17:30pm |
re: #125 Killgore Trout
Exciting the base is not necessarily a good thing. Things exciting the base now include: Tea Parties, Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Lew Rockwell, Alex Jones, Judge Nepalitano, Nirth Certifikit, DHS Memos, FEMA camps, Secession, armed revolution. Very exciting to the base but rational thinking people can't get away fast enough.
We were talking about McCain's campaign. He didn't talk about a single one of those things you list.
Obama was the one who was exciting a party base with his talk of closing Gitmo and the other nuts he threw to the anti-war squirrels. McCain was dulling the base to death.
| 178 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 9:17:40pm |
re: #147 karmic_inquisitor
BTW - I like Dick Cheney too.
A person can like both Powell and Cheney without suffering an existential crisis.
Agreed.
| 179 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:17:47pm |
re: #160 ggt
Tough Love? Contraception?
I think we really have to concentrate on convincing those who are not prepared to raise children not to conceive them.
The whole octo-mom thing has put me over the top on this subject.
Yay!
I've been thinking about these subject a great deal more since Little Man is getting older. And since we're starting to look at where he'll go to school.
| 180 |
jorline Wed, May 27, 2009 9:17:55pm |
Did Powell get the stick or not?
Powell's karma has taken a beating over the last couple of years.
| 181 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:17:56pm |
re: #139 JohnAdams
Sadly the "undefined middle" usually swings elections based on the same sorts of tactics that get people to watch TV programs, buy laundry detergent, or invest their 401k.
Sorry...that may seem cynical but I believe it to be true of the current state or our democracy.
I wish I could disagree with you, but it's true. Obama inspired a lot of voters that had no idea of why they were voting for him. At the BHO meet and greets, I'd often try to discuss what policies they liked of BHO's and some did not have a clue, nor care. Palin had that same kind of "I just love her" appeal. Sadly, you need to reach those voters too.
| 182 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 27, 2009 9:18:02pm |
re: #129 Alouette
You haven't had sweet potatoes if you have them the way most people prepare them for Thanksgiving--gaggingly sweet in a puddle of maple syrup or brown sugar, and all covered with marshmallows. I make mine cut in half lengthwise, and drizzles with some olive oil, salt and pepper and baked.
Have you sent that in to the Cookbook?
Sounds very tasty!
| 183 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 9:18:30pm |
| 184 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:18:51pm |
I sure liked what Dick had to say on missile defense and fiscal responsibility. If Powell says he's a Republican, then he is. Get over it.
| 185 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 9:19:19pm |
re: #181 avanti
I wish I could disagree with you, but it's true. Obama inspired a lot of voters that had no idea of why they were voting for him. At the BHO meet and greets, I'd often try to discuss what policies they liked of BHO's and some did not have a clue, nor care. Palin had that same kind of "I just love her" appeal. Sadly, you need to reach those voters too.
At least the woman with the gas tank and the mortgage had a good reason, eh?
| 186 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 9:19:53pm |
re: #177 SeafoodGumbo
Obama was the perfect stealth, Manchurian Candidate. He was the Michael Jordan of American politcs. You'll never see somebody like him again because any up and comer from either side will be sniffed out and destroyed before they have a chance to run.
| 187 |
JacksonTn Wed, May 27, 2009 9:20:17pm |
re: #177 SeafoodGumbo
We were talking about McCain's campaign. He didn't talk about a single one of those things you list.
Obama was the one who was exciting a party base with his talk of closing Gitmo and the other nuts he threw to the anti-war squirrels. McCain was dulling the base to death.
Seafood ... the list of words I cannot stand is growing after this past election ... among them ... hope, change, and BASE! .. I am sick of hearing about the BASE! ... they can take all their BASE crap and stick it ... when I hear BASE ... to me it means ... FOLLOW WHATEVER I TELL YOU TO ... blindly ... I am done with that crap ... done ... not that anyone cares ...
| 188 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:20:46pm |
re: #184 Thanos
I sure liked what Dick had to say on missile defense and fiscal responsibility. If Powell says he's a Republican, then he is. Get over it.
Concur.
| 189 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 9:21:24pm |
If Powell could enunciate one single Republican position, he would have some credibility.
Since he can't, conservative Republicans are right in distrusting him.
He can register in any party he wants to, you can't be "thrown" out of a party, in any case. It's not the Catholic Church where you can be excommunicated. He is just trying to act the victim.
It would have also been honorable for him to have stepped in during the Plame fiasco and fingered Armitrage, but he didn't have the decency to do so, it appears.
Someone else can send candygrams to Powell. I'm sure Cheney was just being nice. Painfully nice.
| 190 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 9:21:35pm |
re: #181 avanti
I wish I could disagree with you, but it's true. Obama inspired a lot of voters that had no idea of why they were voting for him. At the BHO meet and greets, I'd often try to discuss what policies they liked of BHO's and some did not have a clue, nor care. Palin had that same kind of "I just love her" appeal. Sadly, you need to reach those voters too.
I tried to resist, but my hand moved the mouse and it gave you an upding.
Good points.
| 192 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 9:22:06pm |
re: #186 JohnAdams
Obama was the perfect stealth, Manchurian Candidate. He was the Michael Jordan of American politcs.
Michael Jordan on the basketball court was something else, Obama ain't in that league, I'm not sure who else is.
| 193 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 9:22:38pm |
re: #181 avanti
Upding. Good to hear you engaged those supporters to find out how they arrived at their positions. I know you take a lot of flak here, but I respect your demeanor!
| 194 |
JacksonTn Wed, May 27, 2009 9:22:45pm |
re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
What about the bouilla-BASE?
PtbK ... ooh, now you talking .... yum yum ...
| 195 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:22:50pm |
One question for those who want to enforce an orthodox Republican identity?
Do you agree with the idea of "freedom of association?"
If so, shouldn't Powell be allowed to call himself and register as a Republican?
| 196 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:22:54pm |
re: #151 OldLineTexan
Oh yes, if you hate "pandering", you would definitely vote Obama.
/
BHO, was just so much better at it. The Palin pick was so off the wall, it was just too obvious a play to the social right and the MSM played off on that.
| 197 |
pat Wed, May 27, 2009 9:23:04pm |
This isn't a backtrack. It is a ribbing. They are friends and have been for years.
| 198 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:23:06pm |
re: #189 westtexasjew
I would rather run Ron Paul out than Powell.
| 199 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 9:23:25pm |
re: #196 avanti
BHO, was just so much better at it. The Palin pick was so off the wall, it was just too obvious a play to the social right and the MSM played off on that.
Theories abound.
| 200 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:23:42pm |
Are Peggy Noonon and Christopher Buckley Republicans?
Didn't they also support Obama?
| 201 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 9:24:20pm |
re: #198 Thanos
I would rather run Ron Paul out than Powell.
Paul was out of the barn, and we neglected to close the door.
| 202 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:24:41pm |
If Powell had run in the Republican pres. primary he would have pulled a lot more than Paul's paltrey three percent.
| 203 |
JacksonTn Wed, May 27, 2009 9:24:53pm |
re: #200 reine.de.tout
Are Peggy Noonon and Christopher Buckley Republicans?
Didn't they also support Obama?
Reine ! hey ... I do not like that person Peggy Noonon ... she is hard to listen to ... not just because of what she is saying ... but her voice ... sounds constipated ... I swear ...
| 204 |
SeafoodGumbo Wed, May 27, 2009 9:25:07pm |
re: #187 JacksonTn
Seafood ... the list of words I cannot stand is growing after this past election ... among them ... hope, change, and BASE! .. I am sick of hearing about the BASE! ... they can take all their BASE crap and stick it ... when I hear BASE ... to me it means ... FOLLOW WHATEVER I TELL YOU TO ... blindly ... I am done with that crap ... done ... not that anyone cares ...
If you promise to not bring up "green jobs," I'll refrain from saying "base" for the rest of the night. ;)
| 205 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 9:25:28pm |
re: #198 Thanos
I would rather run Ron Paul out than Powell.
That cuts it. We need a poll.
Who should the GOP toss out?
* Ron Paul
* Colin Powell
| 206 |
OldLineTexan Wed, May 27, 2009 9:25:31pm |
re: #200 reine.de.tout
Are Peggy Noonon and Christopher Buckley Republicans?
Didn't they also support Obama?
I don't know what Christopher Buckley is.
And Peggy Noonan spent too much time this cycle staring down her nose at other Republicans.
Exactly what some are carping about, IMO.
| 207 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:26:13pm |
Actually, I feel like all of this is kinda silliness anyway. The election is over, votes cast and done. There was a great deal of silliness, but now it's time to go forward, and the endless "You don't agree with every single plank in the platform so you're not really a republican" accomplishes very little.
| 208 |
JacksonTn Wed, May 27, 2009 9:26:13pm |
re: #204 SeafoodGumbo
If you promise to not bring up "green jobs," I'll refrain from saying "base" for the rest of the night. ;)
Seafood ... ha .. deal .. but I don't ever use that term ... hey I want to bring back DDT ... tree huggers do not like me ...
| 209 |
JohnAdams Wed, May 27, 2009 9:26:47pm |
re: #192 itellu3times
Michael Jordan on the basketball court was something else, Obama ain't in that league, I'm not sure who else is.
I think in the near term Obama is on a Jordan level, at its height. Long term, I believe he will not maintain his popularity unless he wins 6 titles in a row...which I deem very unlikely. He might win two before the actual facts and record catch up to him.
| 210 |
Cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:26:48pm |
re: #200 reine.de.tout
Are Peggy Noonon and Christopher Buckley Republicans?
Didn't they also support Obama?
Peggy Noonan and Chris Buckley are people for whom it is more important to be admired by the "right" kind of people, than to stand for anything coherent.
| 211 |
pat Wed, May 27, 2009 9:26:49pm |
She was better than McCaine. He was a loose cannon if there ever was one. Speaking of loose cannons on deck, I hear one has been nominated for SCOTUS.
| 212 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:27:17pm |
re: #185 OldLineTexan
At least the woman with the gas tank and the mortgage had a good reason, eh?
Just another example of how the right and left view the same comment.
The left:
Now the economy will recover, and I'll keep my job, so I don't need to worry about gas money or paying the mortgage.
The right:
Oh goody, the President will buy me a house and fill my gas tank.
| 213 |
mrclark Wed, May 27, 2009 9:27:29pm |
re: #72 wkeller
I guess I’m a little confused here. Powell openly endorsed Obama and claims he voted for him. McCain seemed to meet all the criteria Powell now claims he’s looking for. So how does he consider himself a Republican if he takes a pass on McCain to vote for Obama? He also acknowledges he has voted for a host of Democrat candidates in the past. So color me skeptical but that would disqualify him as a Republican to me.
How about this: if he wants the support of the conservatives in the Republican Party, what does he stand for? What is his solution for GITMO? How about Iraq? Iran? Af-Pak? N. Korea? What would he do in the first 100 days? How about the deficit? The banks? Auto companies? How about the security of the country? For a man who rails against the conservatives in the party, he offers no alternatives – nothing.
{snipped to save a bit of space}If this is where we are headed, participation by the conservatives in the party is meaningless anyway, the outcome for the country would be exactly the same if one of the new Republicans that Powell in yearning for were elected.
Very good question....and one nobody even tried to seriously answer... Maybe it made too much sense. :) Republicans win office by other Republicans voting for them...not by those Republicans voting for the Democrat candidate (cause he's the same skin color they are).
| 215 |
JacksonTn Wed, May 27, 2009 9:28:21pm |
re: #212 avanti
Just another example of how the right and left view the same comment.
The left:
Now the economy will recover, and I'll keep my job, so I don't need to worry about gas money or paying the mortgage.The right:
Oh goody, the President will buy me a house and fill my gas tank.
avanti ... what? ... that made no sense to me ... and I am not drinking ... I swear ...
| 216 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:28:24pm |
| 217 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 9:28:40pm |
re: #198 Thanos
I'd rather have strong fiscal conservatives and small-government libertarians like the crazy Paulbots than a big-government fraud and Obama stalking-horse like Powell.
| 218 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 9:29:14pm |
re: #195 karmic_inquisitor
One question for those who want to enforce an orthodox Republican identity?
Do you agree with the idea of "freedom of association?"
If so, shouldn't Powell be allowed to call himself and register as a Republican?
he can call himself a tea kettle
grandma thought she was a chicken, but we never took her to the doctor cuz we needed the eggs.
| 219 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:29:23pm |
re: #205 Racer X
That cuts it. We need a poll.
Who should the GOP toss out?
* Ron Paul
* Colin Powell
Luap Nor!
| 220 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:29:29pm |
re: #170 reine.de.tout
I'm anticipating a winter edition. I do a hydroponics/indoor gardening writeup and sweet potato recipes for adults with taste buds.
| 221 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:29:36pm |
re: #196 avanti
Have you ever described yourself as a conservative, avanti? I have a difficult time imagning anyone who ever called themselves a conservative pulling the lever for a candidate who had the shady, anti-American associations that 0bama had and the redistributive policies he openly espoused on the campaign trail.
A very dishonest debating tactic that I've been acquainted with since 2004 was someone saying "I'm a conservative, but....." and start parroting some Kerry/Edwards talking points verbatim.
Just asking....not trying to stir up any shit.
| 222 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 9:29:58pm |
re: #198 Thanos
I would rather run Ron Paul out than Powell.
That's how ridiculous this purge-o-rama is getting. Ron freaking Paul is being welcomed into the GOP along with Glenn Beck, Lew Rockwell, and Alex Jones, and people like Colin Powell are being driven out because they call for sanity.
re: #217 westtexasjew
I rest my case.
| 223 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:30:11pm |
re: #217 westtexasjew
Well then there you have it. You'd rather have a racist faux-libertarian gold conspiracy nut in office than a moderate. I see where you are coming from now.
| 224 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:30:47pm |
re: #212 avanti
Just another example of how the right and left view the same comment.
The left:
Now the economy will recover, and I'll keep my job, so I don't need to worry about gas money or paying the mortgage.The right:
Oh goody, the President will buy me a house and fill my gas tank.
Just get the President to get rid of the unicorn his people left in my building. It's habit of farting rainbows is distracting.
//
| 225 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 9:30:52pm |
re: #216 Thanos
Well, the oil I drill for out in West Texas as a geologist is green.
Does that count?
| 226 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 27, 2009 9:31:15pm |
re: #223 Thanos
Well then there you have it. You'd rather have a racist faux-libertarian gold conspiracy nut in office than a moderate. I see where you are coming from now.
Yep, that's what he said.
| 227 |
itellu3times Wed, May 27, 2009 9:31:17pm |
re: #209 JohnAdams
I think in the near term Obama is on a Jordan level, at its height. Long term, I believe he will not maintain his popularity unless he wins 6 titles in a row...which I deem very unlikely. He might win two before the actual facts and record catch up to him.
Jordan on the court was the best player, and rose to every occassion and challenge, and made everyone on his team look better.
nuff said
| 228 |
jcm Wed, May 27, 2009 9:31:26pm |
| 229 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:31:34pm |
Republicans who find themselves having to praise Obama as brilliant because he won the last election are in a state of self delusion.
He did not win because he is brilliant. He is simply an opportunist who let his bets ride and ran the table.
How did he get away with simply letting his bets ride?
Because the leadership of the Republican Party is utterly and completely incompetent.
And it doubles down on that incompetency every day.
Against such a backdrop of utter incompetence anyone can look brilliant and rise to power. To back that up, I offer the rise of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid as evidence.
Turn off Rush. Stop listening to Newt. Ignore Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity.
Go back to the principles and find leaders who have lived by them rather than sold them while excusing themselves to do different things.
| 230 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:31:55pm |
re: #217 westtexasjew
I'd rather have strong fiscal conservatives and small-government libertarians like the crazy Paulbots than a big-government fraud and Obama stalking-horse like Powell.
Then you have truly drunk the Kool-Aid. There is only one thing left to say to you:
GAZE
| 231 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:31:57pm |
re: #217 westtexasjew
I'd rather have strong fiscal conservatives and small-government libertarians like the crazy Paulbots than a big-government fraud and Obama stalking-horse like Powell.
Ah yes....that foreign policy hawk Ron Paul.
Maybe he can lecture us about 'blowback' again.
| 232 |
Opilio Wed, May 27, 2009 9:32:01pm |
re: #212 avanti
Just another example of how the right and left view the same comment.
The left:
Now the economy will recover, and I'll keep my job, so I don't need to worry about gas money or paying the mortgage.The right:
Oh goody, the President will buy me a house and fill my gas tank.
The actual comment:
I never thought this day would happen. I won’t have to work on puttin’ gas in my car. I won’t have to work at payin’ my mortgage. You know. If I help him [Obama], he’s gonna help me.
You decide.
| 233 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 27, 2009 9:32:13pm |
re: #220 Killgore Trout
I'm anticipating a winter edition. I do a hydroponics/indoor gardening writeup and sweet potato recipes for adults with taste buds.
Killgore - I think this one will be the winter edition. After the deadline, it will take a couple of months to finish it. So I'm thinking that the cookbook won't be available until end of august at the earliest.
e-mail me.
| 234 |
Desert Dog Wed, May 27, 2009 9:32:17pm |
re: #212 avanti
Just another example of how the right and left view the same comment.
The left:
Now the economy will recover, and I'll keep my job, so I don't need to worry about gas money or paying the mortgage.The right:
Oh goody, the President will buy me a house and fill my gas tank.
Yes, that is true if you ignore what she really said, Avanti. It was a classic line about what people thought a vote for Obama would bring....FREE STUFF.....YEAH!
| 236 |
Gus Wed, May 27, 2009 9:32:54pm |
re: #213 mrclark
Very good question....and one nobody even tried to seriously answer... Maybe it made too much sense. :) Republicans win office by other Republicans voting for them...not by those Republicans voting for the Democrat candidate (cause he's the same skin color they are).
The world is a lot more complicated than that. There were some white Democrats who did not vote for Obama because he's black. The same would be true if there was a black Republican and that there would be some Republicans that would not vote for a black candidate.
//No true Scotsman.
| 237 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:33:12pm |
re: #215 JacksonTn
avanti ... what? ... that made no sense to me ... and I am not drinking ... I swear ...
Let me try again. Someone full of hope and change says her financial problems are over if BHO wins, does not necessarily mean she's talking about the government paying for everything. It might be, she'll get or keep a job.
| 238 |
Macker Wed, May 27, 2009 9:34:27pm |
Sorry Charles, I can't agree with you on this one. Powell did leave McCain behind, and his voice of "moderation" could have helped him.
I'll be glad to welcome Powell back to the GOP, so long as he accepts my gift to him.
| 239 |
jcm Wed, May 27, 2009 9:34:49pm |
re: #217 westtexasjew
I'd rather have strong fiscal conservatives and small-government libertarians like the crazy Paulbots than a big-government fraud and Obama stalking-horse like Powell.
Ron Paul is a racist nut case.
Ron Paul would wait till the barbarians are here, not fight them there.
Ron Paul's economic policies aren't functional in todays global economy.
| 240 |
Desert Dog Wed, May 27, 2009 9:35:19pm |
re: #229 karmic_inquisitor
Republicans who find themselves having to praise Obama as brilliant because he won the last election are in a state of self delusion.
He did not win because he is brilliant. He is simply an opportunist who let his bets ride and ran the table.
How did he get away with simply letting his bets ride?
Because the leadership of the Republican Party is utterly and completely incompetent.
And it doubles down on that incompetency every day.
Against such a backdrop of utter incompetence anyone can look brilliant and rise to power. To back that up, I offer the rise of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid as evidence.
Turn off Rush. Stop listening to Newt. Ignore Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity.
Go back to the principles and find leaders who have lived by them rather than sold them while excusing themselves to do different things.
Don't forget the drooling MSM that refused to call him on any of his past associations, statements or voting record. If he was treated like any other candidate, he would have been run off the ticket. But, he was anointed and practically put into office without an election by the media.
| 241 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 9:35:51pm |
re: #229 karmic_inquisitor
Well you're in denial if you don't believe Obama ran a brilliant campaign. He also raised more money then anyone in history - mostly on small donations.
| 243 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:36:28pm |
re: #221 Fenway_Nation
Have you ever described yourself as a conservative, avanti? I have a difficult time imagning anyone who ever called themselves a conservative pulling the lever for a candidate who had the shady, anti-American associations that 0bama had and the redistributive policies he openly espoused on the campaign trail.
A very dishonest debating tactic that I've been acquainted with since 2004 was someone saying "I'm a conservative, but....." and start parroting some Kerry/Edwards talking points verbatim.
Just asking....not trying to stir up any shit.
No, fair question, I'm very liberal socially, but a fiscal conservative. I'm not as big a hawk as most conservatives, nor do I believe in nation building or being the worlds cop.
| 244 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:36:34pm |
re: #239 jcm
Ron Paul is a racist nut case.
Ron Paul would wait till the barbarians are here, not fight them there.
Ron Paul's economic policies aren't functional in todays global economy.
I think he stopped reading his history books somewhere around the John Quincy Adams administration.
...And then there's the fact that his biggest fans are Bircher lunatics.
| 246 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:37:18pm |
We seem to be in Act Two of the playbill that Bloodnok crafted for threads like this:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 247 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:37:36pm |
Has a political party in this country ever refused membership to someone --especially if that someone comes bearing money?
| 248 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 9:37:47pm |
re: #240 Desert Dog
Don't forget the drooling MSM that refused to call him on any of his past associations, statements or voting record. If he was treated like any other candidate, he would have been run off the ticket. But, he was anointed and practically put into office without an election by the media.
And don't forget Colin Powell, who not only refused to call Obama out on any of his past associations, but acted like McCain was some sort of evil gutter-dweller because he did.
And the ironic thing is, McCain didn't.
| 249 |
jcm Wed, May 27, 2009 9:38:00pm |
re: #244 Pawn of the Oppressor
I think he stopped reading his history books somewhere around the John Quincy Adams administration.
...And then there's the fact that his biggest fans are Bircher lunatics.
That too...
| 250 |
solomonpanting Wed, May 27, 2009 9:38:14pm |
re: #243 avanti
No, fair question, I'm very liberal socially, but a fiscal conservative. I'm not as big a hawk as most conservatives, nor do I believe in nation building or being the worlds cop.
Do you believe there should be a world cop? If so, who would that be?
| 251 |
freetoken Wed, May 27, 2009 9:38:34pm |
re: #235 jaunte
We can honestly say, no true scotsman voted for Obama!
| 252 |
Opilio Wed, May 27, 2009 9:39:00pm |
| 253 |
alexknyc Wed, May 27, 2009 9:39:20pm |
re: #243 avanti
No, fair question, I'm very liberal socially, but a fiscal conservative. I'm not as big a hawk as most conservatives, nor do I believe in nation building or being the worlds cop.
Amazingly enough, that sounds like me.
And I say "amazingly," because there's very little you've said here that I've agreed with.
| 254 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:39:22pm |
re: #243 avanti
No, fair question, I'm very liberal socially, but a fiscal conservative.
Any buyer's remorse for the fiscal conservative part of you yet?
| 255 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:39:24pm |
re: #246 Dark_Falcon
We seem to be in Act Two of the playbill that Bloodnok crafted for threads like this:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
I missed that one in it's debut. Hilarious!
| 256 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 9:39:25pm |
re: #247 ggt
Has a political party in this country ever refused membership to someone --especially if that someone comes bearing money?
What does "membership" even mean? Anyone's allowed to register as a member of a political party. Anyone's allowed to run for office as a Republican or a Democrat. I don't think they can stop anyone.
| 258 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 9:40:08pm |
BTW, it's not exclusive to the Republicans to want to engage in "purges". Look at what the Dems did to Lieberman.
| 259 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 9:40:21pm |
re: #223 Thanos
Well, genius... the Chinese may beg to differ with your brilliant economic analysis.
Watch the dollar index over the next 6-12 months as Powell's little buddy sinks this country into an economic abyss.
14 trillion dollar deficits on top of 45 trillion in Social Security and Medicare, "monetarization" of our debt -aka huge inflation, if not hyperinflation. The printing presses are humming right now.
Mortgage rates are shooting up, and the ARMS are reloading.
It'll be a different political environment in a couple of years, like 2004 was so much different than today's.
| 260 |
Desert Dog Wed, May 27, 2009 9:41:05pm |
re: #248 Last Mohican
And don't forget Colin Powell, who not only refused to call Obama out on any of his past associations, but acted like McCain was some sort of evil gutter-dweller because he did.
And the ironic thing is, McCain didn't.
I have already stated why I think Powell voted for Obama. It had nothing to do with policy positions or political orientation.
| 261 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, May 27, 2009 9:41:06pm |
re: #258 ArrowSmith
BTW, it's not exclusive to the Republicans to want to engage in "purges". Look at what the Dems did to Lieberman.
Yeah....but we got a funny-ass pseudo Mentos commercial from Kos in the bargain.
| 262 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:41:25pm |
re: #256 Last Mohican
"What does "membership" even mean?"
Good Question. I think it means giving money and being on a mailing list. Although there is probably some sort of membership card and secret decoder ring.
| 263 |
Last Mohican Wed, May 27, 2009 9:43:07pm |
re: #262 ggt
"What does "membership" even mean?"
Good Question. I think it means giving money and being on a mailing list. Although there is probably some sort of membership card and secret decoder ring.
Maybe not even the money part.
I registered as a Democrat in 2008, but I didn't vote for a single Democratic candidate in the general election. And I didn't send them any money (which may explain why I never received my decoder ring).
| 264 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:43:35pm |
re: #241 ArrowSmith
Well you're in denial if you don't believe Obama ran a brilliant campaign. He also raised more money then anyone in history - mostly on small donations.
I don't think he was "brilliant" in campaigning, he was just "modern". He used current technology, and he owned his image completely with the help of the media, and he also owned his opponent's image. Apparently not a single f-cking one of the Republican brain trust would know Alinsky's "Rules For Radicals" if they were hit over the head with a copy of it. Palin, for example, walked clean into a grand-canyon-sized trap financed by Soros billions, with results as predictable as a sunrise to anybody who's been paying attention to the relationship between the media and the Democrats for the last, oh, I dunno... fifteen years, maybe?
Repubs have been asleep at the switch since 2005 at the latest. Kerry lost and after that they figured everything was gravy. Now we all pay for their idiocy.
| 265 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:44:29pm |
re: #259 westtexasjew
I'll save this and throw it in your face in a couple of years if you are still around, which I doubt you will be.
Those counting on economic doom saving the Republican party next election are whistling past the graveyard and harbor evil paranoia in their hearts.
| 266 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:44:37pm |
re: #232 Opilio
The actual comment:
I never thought this day would happen. I won’t have to work on puttin’ gas in my car. I won’t have to work at payin’ my mortgage. You know. If I help him [Obama], he’s gonna help me.
You decide.
I took the "work at payin" to mean struggle to pay it. Honestly, if she was accustomed to being on the dole, she would not be paying a mortgage so I don't get it.
If in fact she did think BHO was going to pay off her house, he's not going to do it.
| 267 |
bloodnok Wed, May 27, 2009 9:44:51pm |
re: #259 westtexasjew
Well, genius... the Chinese may beg to differ with your brilliant economic analysis.
Watch the dollar index over the next 6-12 months as Powell's little buddy sinks this country into an economic abyss.
14 trillion dollar deficits on top of 45 trillion in Social Security and Medicare, "monetarization" of our debt -aka huge inflation, if not hyperinflation. The printing presses are humming right now.
Mortgage rates are shooting up, and the ARMS are reloading.
It'll be a different political environment in a couple of years, like 2004 was so much different than today's.
Gold will save us! Gold! /
Are you this man?
| 268 |
Desert Dog Wed, May 27, 2009 9:45:12pm |
Party membership means squat in this country. I would guess that most Code Pinkers are Democrats...does that make every Democrat a flaming Moonbat? Hardly. Ron Paul and Patrick Buchanan are registered as Republicans....does that make every Republican an anti-semantic conspiracy nut? Nope.
| 269 |
karmic_inquisitor Wed, May 27, 2009 9:45:14pm |
re: #241 ArrowSmith
Well you're in denial if you don't believe Obama ran a brilliant campaign. He also raised more money then anyone in history - mostly on small donations.
Again - what motivated all of that giving?
What?
George. Fucking. W. Bush.
I like GWB. But the Democrats froze him and branded him and he did some sort of bizzare "take the high road / take my hits" act that reminds me of Happy Gillmore taking baseballs to the chest to "toughen up" for hockey season.
The Republicans were too addicted to their pork circus to defend Bush and Bush was too principled to lead a counter attack. Cheney was the only one with good instincts but they put the Halliburton / secret bunker millstones around his neck and isolated him.
And Obama had yet to come on the scene when all of that was done.
The only thing that Obama brought was a sense that you could be "for him" rather than just against the Republicans. So he kept it positive and vague and simply did the "look presidential" schtick.
That ain't brilliant. That is being smart enought to play it safe and let your opponents melt down.
A strategy he continues to use effectively, with the latest instalment labeled "Sotomayor".
Enjoy your self delusion. When Republicans lose even more seats in 2010 (after a running a creationist /goldstandard /antivaccine and oh-yeah-fiscal-conservatism-too campaign) maybe the reality will set in.
| 270 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 9:45:34pm |
re: #259 westtexasjew
Ron Paul has stated we need to go back onto the gold standard. This idea is sheer lunacy.
P.S.
You are unqualified to wipe Thanos' ass.
| 271 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 9:46:41pm |
re: #265 Thanos
I'll save this and throw it in your face in a couple of years if you are still around, which I doubt you will be.
Those counting on economic doom saving the Republican party next election are whistling past the graveyard and harbor evil paranoia in their hearts.
Agreed. I predict an economic recovery in the next few months IN SPITE of what Obama is doing.
| 272 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:47:13pm |
I'm betting west texas voted for the nutball.
| 273 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:47:46pm |
re: #269 karmic_inquisitor
Again - what motivated all of that giving?
What?
George. Fucking. W. Bush.
I like GWB. But the Democrats froze him and branded him and he did some sort of bizzare "take the high road / take my hits" act that reminds me of Happy Gillmore taking baseballs to the chest to "toughen up" for hockey season.
The Republicans were too addicted to their pork circus to defend Bush and Bush was too principled to lead a counter attack. Cheney was the only one with good instincts but they put the Halliburton / secret bunker millstones around his neck and isolated him.
And Obama had yet to come on the scene when all of that was done.
The only thing that Obama brought was a sense that you could be "for him" rather than just against the Republicans. So he kept it positive and vague and simply did the "look presidential" schtick.
That ain't brilliant. That is being smart enought to play it safe and let your opponents melt down.
A strategy he continues to use effectively, with the latest instalment labeled "Sotomayor".
Enjoy your self delusion. When Republicans lose even more seats in 2010 (after a running a creationist /goldstandard /antivaccine and oh-yeah-fiscal-conservatism-too campaign) maybe the reality will set in.
Good word choice. "Freeze and polarize" is a stratagy right out of Rules for Radicals.
| 274 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 9:48:27pm |
re: #269 karmic_inquisitor
If the Republicans run theocratic types in swing districts, they deserve to lose.
| 275 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:48:37pm |
re: #272 Thanos
I'm betting west texas voted for the nutball.
Well, they are from the same state. Maybe it's something in the water that affects those with weak minds.
| 276 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:48:50pm |
re: #271 Racer X
Yep, the economy of the world demands we recover, whether they like it or not. IF we aren't buying their junk, they starve. It's inescapable for them.
| 277 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 9:48:52pm |
re: #273 Dark_Falcon
So what? The fact is that Saul Alinsky won and we lost. Whining about it doesn't help.
| 278 |
mrclark Wed, May 27, 2009 9:49:13pm |
re: #236 Gus 802
The world is a lot more complicated than that. There were some white Democrats who did not vote for Obama because he's black. The same would be true if there was a black Republican and that there would be some Republicans that would not vote for a black candidate.
//No true Scotsman.
Well, I wasn't really dwelling on the race issue as much as the issue of high profile Republicans turning coat to actually promote the other party's candidate for President.
Let's take away the fact that Powell is black for just a moment. Now, he's just a high profile Republican. He's supporting the Democrat candidate for President over his own party's candidate? (!) His own party's candidate isn't a largely polarizing figure. Say what you want, but McCain is about as inclusive as you get. Powell's actions said something.
Oh I agree...the world is a complicated place. And perception matters. Powell is perceived by many now as having abandoned the Republican party for (shhhh) 'pro-racial' reasons. On the world stage, to abandon a candidate like McCain (who clearly wasn't a polarizing 'extreme conservative' figure) for the Democrat candidate? Pretty incredible. Powell had to have known that people would be watching him and yet he did it anyway. Abandoned party (apparently) for race. Sure, there may be some Republican 'white' guys who wouldn't have voted for Powell for President but they're nobodies. Powell is a somebody and what he does matters..
I guess it is sort of naive for someone to actually try to live by that old saying by Martin Luther King JR then... isn't it. But then again, isn't that what 'ideals' are for? To raise ourselves out of the bondage of our own prejudices, to act towards a higher goal?
| 279 |
Idle Drifter Wed, May 27, 2009 9:49:36pm |
re: #263 Last Mohican
Maybe not even the money part.
I registered as a Democrat in 2008, but I didn't vote for a single Democratic candidate in the general election. And I didn't send them any money (which may explain why I never received my decoder ring).
In 2008 I received a blitz of Democrat mail, phone messages, and members knocking (which included two little girls under 10) on my door asking me if voted or if I'm going to vote and for who. I've been registered as an Independent since '97. Damn I hated the many months up to election day.
| 280 |
srb1976 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:50:43pm |
re: #269 karmic_inquisitor
Lovely rant, and quite true i think, but most of the anti-vax folks I have seen run to the other end of politics....no less crazy, just different.
| 281 |
alexknyc Wed, May 27, 2009 9:51:00pm |
re: #279 Idle Drifter
In 2008 I received a blitz of Democrat mail, phone messages, and members knocking (which included two little girls under 10) on my door asking me if voted or if I'm going to vote and for who. I've been registered as an Independent since '97. Damn I hated the many months up to election day.
That's what you get for living in a swing state.
Here in NYC, I was unencumbered by any such electioneering from March onwards.
| 282 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 9:51:24pm |
re: #265 Thanos
I won't be ... where, exactly?
What a strange statement.
I will be, because I will be producing oil that will cost about a thousand bucks a barrel, if the dollar tanks. It'll be cheap in yen and yuan, but not in dollars.
So you think that 60 trillion dollars of unsustainable debt (not including the growing interest) is a good idea.
I'm not a loopy Paulbot, just a hard-ass conservative, but I also think that socialism is a freaking disaster, and that is what we have here.
And I think that voting for Obama was an idiotic act for a 72-year-old man like Powell, who purports to be a mainline Republican and he needs to be called out for it.
| 283 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 9:51:30pm |
The thing is that the younger swing voters(18-32) might be willing to entertain voting for fiscally conservative Republicans IF they didn't come along with all that Creationist, anti-abortion, anti-gay baggage. There is not enough of a difference right now between the Dems/GOP on economic issues so people feel free to vote on the social ones. Right now it breaks 70/30 for liberal social values - just the way it is.
| 284 |
Rexatosis Wed, May 27, 2009 9:53:01pm |
Ward Churchill is registered as a Republican, should the GOP listen to the former Professor as to what it should stand for? Just asking.
| 285 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, May 27, 2009 9:53:15pm |
re: #279 Idle Drifter
In 2008 I received a blitz of Democrat mail, phone messages, and members knocking (which included two little girls under 10) on my door asking me if voted or if I'm going to vote and for who. I've been registered as an Independent since '97. Damn I hated the many months up to election day.
How do u register as an independent. I don't think Illinois has that option.
| 286 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 9:53:57pm |
re: #250 solomonpanting
Do you believe there should be a world cop? If so, who would that be?
I believe there should be "cops". In other words, if Iran is a threat to Israel we can arm Israel, and insure her self defense, but Israel should take the lead. If something happens in Europe, the Europeans should lead. Why do we give up our youth and treasure so casually without the help of others closer by and more threatened ?
| 287 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:54:16pm |
re: #277 ArrowSmith
So what? The fact is that Saul Alinsky won and we lost. Whining about it doesn't help.
I'm not whining. I'm just pointing out the origin of the tactic.
| 288 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:55:56pm |
re: #282 westtexasjew
Ok we have you on record saying oil will be a thousand dollars a barrel in two years.
/excuse me while I wipe the spray off my monitor from my guffaw. Yep, you're a Ronulan all right.
| 289 |
TheMatrix31 Wed, May 27, 2009 9:56:13pm |
LOL @ people blaming Sarah Palin for John McCain's downfall.
LOL @ "conservatives" being turned off by the choice of Sarah Palin and going to vote for Obama instead.
| 290 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 9:56:19pm |
re: #287 Dark_Falcon
I'm not whining. I'm just pointing out the origin of the tactic.
Well if you can't beat em - join em. If Alinsky's tactics are what it takes - then that's what the GOP has to do.
| 291 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 9:57:02pm |
re: #289 TheMatrix31
LOL @ people blaming Sarah Palin for John McCain's downfall.
LOL @ "conservatives" being turned off by the choice of Sarah Palin and going to vote for Obama instead.
Swing voters were turned off by her lack of intellectual curiosity and theocratic tendencies.
| 292 |
Idle Drifter Wed, May 27, 2009 9:57:13pm |
re: #281 alexknyc
That's what you get for living in a swing state.
Here in NYC, I was unencumbered by any such electioneering from March onwards.
I was receiving phones calls at 8am sharp on the weekends from machines with Mitchell Obama's election message. Good call on the swing state, Colorado. I think they killed some sections of rain forest mailing me crap.
| 293 |
Randall Gross Wed, May 27, 2009 9:57:55pm |
re: #290 ArrowSmith
We've been doing Alinsky longer than the Dems, what do you think Coulter is all about anyway?
| 294 |
Idle Drifter Wed, May 27, 2009 9:58:15pm |
re: #285 ggt
How do u register as an independent. I don't think Illinois has that option.
DMV, the same time I applied for my Colorado driver's license.
| 295 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 9:59:15pm |
re: #290 ArrowSmith
Well if you can't beat em - join em. If Alinsky's tactics are what it takes - then that's what the GOP has to do.
No, we need tactics that counter Alinskyite tactics. I've posted such tactics several times here. We don't want to adopt his tactics whole-hog, we're better than that.
| 296 |
alexknyc Wed, May 27, 2009 9:59:44pm |
re: #294 Idle Drifter
Here in NYC you enroll as a member of no political party,
| 297 |
avanti Wed, May 27, 2009 10:00:19pm |
re: #291 ArrowSmith
Swing voters were turned off by her lack of intellectual curiosity and theocratic tendencies.
I'm glad you said that, and I agree 100%
Time to hit the rack, later folks.
| 298 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 10:00:23pm |
re: #295 Dark_Falcon
No, we need tactics that counter Alinskyite tactics. I've posted such tactics several times here. We don't want to adopt his tactics whole-hog, we're better than that.
Well the argument I've heard against adopting his tactics is that conservatives/libertarians don't have the built-in nasty quality necessary to execute it. Essentially we don't have the belly for it.
| 299 |
Cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 10:00:45pm |
re: #291 ArrowSmith
Theocratic tendencies? Name one policy that Palin promoted that reflects "theocratic tendencies."
| 300 |
solomonpanting Wed, May 27, 2009 10:01:07pm |
re: #286 avanti
I believe there should be "cops". In other words, if Iran is a threat to Israel we can arm Israel, and insure her self defense, but Israel should take the lead. If something happens in Europe, the Europeans should lead. Why do we give up our youth and treasure so casually without the help of others closer by and more threatened ?
I have no doubt Israel is more than willing to do her dirty work, as she has shown repeatedly.
You can wish all you want, but what was the cop role played by Europe after Yugoslavia broke apart and decended into warfare?
Who lead the first Gulf War to prevent Iraq from swallowing Kuwait?
It's only your opinion that we 'give up our youth and treasure so casually'.
| 301 |
TheMatrix31 Wed, May 27, 2009 10:01:08pm |
re: #291 ArrowSmith
Swing voters were turned off by her lack of intellectual curiosity and theocratic tendencies.
And she proved time and time again she could keep her personal views personal and out of the political sphere. People were brainwashed by what Tina Fey said and thought that it was actually Palin that said "I can see Russia from my house!". The leash was tight on her at first, and that was the fault of the McCain campaign. Once they turned her loose, she was kicking ass left and right, like in the VP debate with The Liar.
| 302 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 10:01:20pm |
re: #299 Cicero05
Theocratic tendencies? Name one policy that Palin promoted that reflects "theocratic tendencies."
Praying for the oil pipeline? I don't think most people want their elected officials bringing religion into such things.
| 304 |
kynna Wed, May 27, 2009 10:01:39pm |
George W. Bush tried to talk Pat Buchanan into staying in the Republican party, too. Whatever. There is no Republican party anymore it seems.
Colin Powell is chairman of the Colin Powell party. I used to defend him vehemently against what I assumed was trash talk by a person from the Department of Defense who used to know him from service in Saudi. No way was he dishonest! No way was he self-aggrandizing and selfish! He could have been president if he'd run back in 2000 and he chose not to!
And then I got slapped in the face with his dishonesty regarding Scooter Libby (where there was a definitely, clear victim and still is), and then his politically timed endorsement of Barack Obama -- apparently because Sarah Palin (the only candidate running with executive experience) didn't have the experience.
I don't call Colin Powell a RINO. I don't even know what that means anymore. I call him a dishonest, self-centered SOB. When he steps up and speaks out on behalf of Scooter Libby, I will rethink things. It's not likely to happen unless it benefits him personally in some way, so I'm not holding my breath.
| 305 |
jvic Wed, May 27, 2009 10:03:43pm |
re: #241 ArrowSmith
Well you're in denial if you don't believe Obama ran a brilliant campaign. He also raised more money then anyone in history - mostly on small donations.
With respect to karmic inquisitor and Pawn of the Oppressor, I agree with you.
He knocked off the inevitable Hillary. That comeback line in the Iowa (?) debate when he was challenged about all the ex-Clintonites on his hopenchange team, "Hillary, I look forward to you advising me too," was devastating.
Taking the nomination away from Hillary was where the Obama campaign's brilliance was evident. He had a clear advantage in the general election so he, correctly as it turned out, played his cards cautiously.
(IMHO it was McCain who was brilliant in the early going of the general election, but he overdid his risk-taking and self-destructed.)
| 306 |
Cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 10:04:45pm |
re: #302 ArrowSmith
Yep, she's an aspiring ayatollah, all right. With a religious lunatuic like that on the loose, I'm surprised that talking in tongues isn't a mandatory part of Alaskan public school curriculum.
| 307 |
mrclark Wed, May 27, 2009 10:05:33pm |
re: #290 ArrowSmith
Well if you can't beat em - join em. If Alinsky's tactics are what it takes - then that's what the GOP has to do.
heh... I'm not sure we're capable of achieving the proper calibur of indignant, self justified sneer while we accuse Democrats of being defiling natural law by their promotion of gay 'marriage'.. lol
| 308 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 10:05:36pm |
re: #306 Cicero05
Yep, she's an aspiring ayatollah, all right. With a religious lunatuic like that on the loose, I'm surprised that talking in tongues isn't a mandatory part of Alaskan public school curriculum.
The point isn't that she's as bad as Muslim theocrats - the point is that she's offensive enough to swing voters like myself.
| 309 |
westtexasjew Wed, May 27, 2009 10:07:10pm |
re: #288 Thanos
If the dollar collapses due to Obama's cretinous policies, then yes, there will be a lot of dollar inflation. The term here is "if".
If you lived through the 70's-80's period, that is not a crazy statement.
And we did not have the level of fiscal irresponsibility back then that we have now.
The fall in the dollar last year- a rather mild one, more than doubled the oil price in a matter of months to almost 150 dollars per barrel. That's an increase of 1400% in less than 10 years.
Our debt is about to triple overnight. Do the math, Einstein.
| 310 |
TheMatrix31 Wed, May 27, 2009 10:07:27pm |
re: #308 ArrowSmith
The point isn't that she's as bad as Muslim theocrats - the point is that she's offensive enough to swing voters like myself.
Well alright then, good thing you weren't offended by things Obama has said and done, because you would be REALLY pissed that he won.
| 311 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 10:07:38pm |
| 312 |
kynna Wed, May 27, 2009 10:08:08pm |
re: #286 avanti
I believe there should be "cops". In other words, if Iran is a threat to Israel we can arm Israel, and insure her self defense, but Israel should take the lead. If something happens in Europe, the Europeans should lead. Why do we give up our youth and treasure so casually without the help of others closer by and more threatened ?
Because they won't do it themselves? Seriously, what you've written is a lovely idea, but it just hasn't been happening that way for over a century. Isolationism doesn't help.
I don't want us to be the "cops" either. Let's see how the Obama Way works with the Koreas.
| 313 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 10:08:45pm |
re: #309 westtexasjew
Don't insult Thanos, jackass. He's forgotten more than you'll ever learn.
| 314 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 10:08:52pm |
re: #310 TheMatrix31
Well alright then, good thing you weren't offended by things Obama has said and done, because you would be REALLY pissed that he won.
I didn't vote for Obama. I voted for McCain holding my nose.
| 315 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 10:10:53pm |
re: #314 ArrowSmith
I didn't vote for Obama. I voted for McCain holding my nose.
That I'll upding, since I understand that very clearly.
| 317 |
JacksonTn Wed, May 27, 2009 10:12:20pm |
re: #316 westtexasjew
So he has Alzeimer's.
How fricking old are you, eleven?
wtj ... what ...? you need a snappier comeback than that ... FAIL ...
| 318 |
Cicero05 Wed, May 27, 2009 10:12:22pm |
re: #311 Dark_Falcon
Nasty little distorter, aren't you?
GAZE
I just thought that ArrowSmith's example of Palin's purported tendency toward religious opression was weak tea. Were you impressed by it?
| 319 |
Racer X Wed, May 27, 2009 10:12:59pm |
re: #316 westtexasjew
So he has Alzeimer's.
How fricking old are you, eleven?
You're making lots of friends here. I'm not one.
GFY.
| 320 |
TheMatrix31 Wed, May 27, 2009 10:13:53pm |
re: #314 ArrowSmith
I didn't vote for Obama. I voted for McCain holding my nose.
Well considering Palin is more of a conservative than McCain, it seems like her entrance should have made you open up half a nostril.
Whatever, who cares I guess.
| 322 |
ArrowSmith Wed, May 27, 2009 10:17:10pm |
re: #320 TheMatrix31
Well considering Palin is more of a conservative than McCain, it seems like her entrance should have made you open up half a nostril.
Whatever, who cares I guess.
It was strictly a vote based on the idea that I couldn't vote for someone who was buddies with William Ayers, Rev Wright and an Alinskyite. McCain was the lesser of 2 evils.
| 325 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 10:30:53pm |
re: #318 Cicero05
I just thought that ArrowSmith's example of Palin's purported tendency toward religious opression was weak tea. Were you impressed by it?
Sorry, I misunderstood you. Please accept my apology. Dingding withdrawn, GAZE retracted.
| 327 |
DebbieSym Wed, May 27, 2009 10:36:29pm |
It's reasonable to expect that a Republican as high-profile as Colin Powell would not endorse the Democrat candidate, particularly the most left-wing candidate we've had in years. And once that high-profile Republican makes such an endorsement, it is reasonable for others in the party to question whether he has jumped ship.
To be sure, there have been Democrats who voted for the Republican candidate. Consider Zell Miller, who backed Bush in 2004 and spoke at the Republican National Convention. Here's what Slate wrote about him:
Far from representing some lonely, abandoned Democratic center, Miller has become a cartoonish GOP partisan.
Regarding Sarah Palin, she was attacked brutally by the media. Although her experience was not extensive, her story is actually fairly impressive when you strip away all the media coloring. In the televised debates when she ran for governor, she did very well. Yes, McCain took a chance on her, but he underestimated the vitriol that would be unleashed. She did energize the campaign and breath new life into it. It's easy to criticize in hindsight. It's not clear anybody else would have done better, given the lapdog media treatment that Obama got. Remember the softball questions tossed to Biden? "How does it feel to be running for vice president?" Imagine how different it might have been were Sarah Palin a Democrat.
| 328 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 10:36:55pm |
re: #326 westtexasjew
Charles, will you please get rid of this noxious troll?
| 329 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 27, 2009 10:45:39pm |
| 330 |
theheat Thu, May 28, 2009 3:07:18am |
This fight under the big tent of "true" conservatives is beginning to remind me of the Big Swinging Dick All-Star Team. 'Dick' not referring to Cheney, specifically. Perhaps by the next election they can all eat their own words, two or three times over, and decide who can joint the team and play. Right now, they all just seem to enjoy swinging their dicks around, because they're especially proud of their own dicks.
It's embarrassing and not the least bit entertaining.
| 331 |
bkgodfrey Thu, May 28, 2009 4:15:18am |
re: #1 lostlakehiker
Why does the GOP need him? So that he can berate the Republican candidate and endorse the other party's?
| 332 |
Fearless Fred Thu, May 28, 2009 4:18:44am |
re: #22 Charles
Oh, I don't know. Just guessing, but maybe the fact that he voted for Republicans every year since Ronald Reagan, and worked in high offices under both Bush presidencies?
Yes, but what is his philosophy of government? What are his ideas about how economies succeed and fail? What's his basic world view? Is he conservative, ... libertarian? He doesn't say much. He doesn't suggest hundreds of innovative and specific policy proposals like Jack Kemp did.
| 333 |
Fearless Fred Thu, May 28, 2009 4:28:49am |
| 334 |
Kenneth Thu, May 28, 2009 4:58:25am |
I was a little disappointed in Cheney when he made the original snarky remark. I've always respected Cheney and thought that swipe was beneath him. I'm glad to see he has reconsidered his off-the-cuff comment.
| 335 |
Kenneth Thu, May 28, 2009 4:59:37am |
I have little tolerance for trolls in the morning. Good ridence.
| 336 |
Neuron Thu, May 28, 2009 5:21:33am |
To: killgoretrout- who said, "Most of the high profile defections came after he appointed Palin as VP. It was a stupid move and many people decided that the alternative was the better option."
To which I will let Ann Coulter respond: Not even Dick Cheney can incite the blood-curdling rage of liberals at the sight of a sexy Evangelical Christian. Paula Jones, Katherine Harris, Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin and, most recently, Miss California, Carrie Prejean, have all come under a frenzy of attacks from liberals.
This apparent contradiction incites violent anger in liberals, triggering their famous "flight or flight" response." A. Coulter
I am sure you are a nice person, even if you chose a name with the word "kill" in it, however what you miss about Sarah Palin is that liberals HAD to destroy her. Just like Clarence Thomas. People like Palin and Thomas contradict everything liberals tell us and therefore must be eliminated.
| 337 |
William Thu, May 28, 2009 5:53:26am |
Colin Powell is a Republican like all Republicans who voted for Obama.
| 338 |
William Thu, May 28, 2009 5:55:35am |
People defected from Palin to embrace Biden?
God luck with that.
| 339 |
William Thu, May 28, 2009 6:01:05am |
The complaints that McCain lost the election because of some embrace or abandonment of any "Republican" values is misguided.
McCain lost because the economic meltdown was fairly well underway last November (Lehman Brothers, in business for 150 years, failed two months earlier in September). Obama simply rode that train all the way into the station, with the help of an uncritical, adoring media of course.
So there's really not much need for navel gazing.
| 340 |
kansas Thu, May 28, 2009 6:15:42am |
If Cheney is happy to have Powell in the party suppose he could get Powell to support the candidate, or is that too much?
| 341 |
Fearless Fred Thu, May 28, 2009 6:39:14am |
re: #340 kansas
If Cheney is happy to have Powell in the party suppose he could get Powell to support the candidate, or is that too much?
That's funny. Yeah, and so now which Obama policies does Powell support, and are there any which he rejects? Or does he just want hope and change?
| 342 |
MPH Thu, May 28, 2009 6:54:31am |
re: #4 SeafoodGumbo
McCain was among the worst kinds of Republican though. Socially conservative and economically a statist. Foreign policy was his only strength.
Give us a social liberal and someone who can defend free market principles and America overseas, and you've got an easy winner.
| 343 |
MPH Thu, May 28, 2009 6:59:42am |
re: #342 MPH
McCain was among the worst kinds of Republican though. Socially conservative and economically a statist. Foreign policy was his only strength.
Give us a social liberal and someone who can defend free market principles and America overseas, and you've got an easy winner.
Kejda wrote on this in March of last year:
That the GOP is experiencing an identity crisis is self-evident. Over the last few months the Party cannibalized herself as one candidate after another tripped over his feet trying to climb on top of her shaky political pedestal. No one can convincingly say what Republican voters were looking for, but we must infer they’ve pretty much found it in John McCain. Yet there is restiveness in the so-called Conservative sector, once hailed as the core ideological constituency of the Right but now finding itself marginalized to the peripheries of the Republican Party whose political headquarters are being rebuilt Leftwards.Most Conservative icons have criticized the Arizona senator’s controversial Conservative credentials, but some have gone as far as to boycott the Party over his nomination, thus translating the Conservative tantrum into a highly leveraged ultimatum. So Conservatives indeed feel betrayed by the GOP’s leadership, but have they ever scrutinized their faithfulness to their own principles? Most importantly, have they ever coherently articulated what Conservative principles represent? …Can they?
[Link: www.kejda.net...]
| 344 |
DonkeyJawz Thu, May 28, 2009 7:07:48am |
While I view Cheney's backtracking as a rather weak attempt at damage control, I don't get how Powell's endorsement of an obvious far left candidate qualifies him as a moderate republican. I could see him supporting someone like Zell Miller, or say Joe Lieberman and still maintain the mantle of centrist conservative, but throwing in your hat to the far left kinda kills this argument. Especially when you've got an actual centrist albeit weak (as others have pointed out) conservative candidate, which Powell himself claims to be.
When Your views are conservative, you simply don't throw in with someone who's values are the diametrically opposed to the ones you purport to hold. Colin Powell brought this criticism upon himself.
| 345 |
Who Watches the Watchmen? Thu, May 28, 2009 7:09:33am |
Don't lend no hand
To raise no flag
Atop no ship of fools
- Robert Hunter
| 346 |
Yashmak Thu, May 28, 2009 7:45:36am |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
People are confusing moderation and weakness. They are not the same thing. McCain is probably a good person but he was a lousy candidate. Most of the high profile defections came after he appointed Palin as VP. It was a stupid move and many people decided that the alternative was the better option. I know that's unthinkable to a lot of people but that's what happened.
I agree with this. I recall McCain's numbers briefly rose after she was chosen, but then steadily declined as she started publicly banging away with the social conservative talking points on any talk show that would have her. It was then, that the defections began. . .and it was at that time that many of my independent registered friends switched from an intent to vote McCain, to Obama. Obviously, there were other major issues at play too, but that was a part of it.
| 347 |
Land Shark Thu, May 28, 2009 7:54:47am |
The problem in my eyes with Colin Powell is the damage he did when he endorsed Obama over McCain in '08. I have a couple of questions for him. Do you approve of Obama's policies and the things he's done since his inauguration? Will you vote for Obama again in '12? I'm curious where he stands on those now.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, if the GOP pulls it's head out of it's butt and goes back to fiscal restraint and small government, and drops it's ill advised recent focus on dumb shit issues like ID/Creationism, the voters will return. Then what Colin Powell does and says will become a minor issue. As long as the GOP keeps going around in these useless little circles, nothing will change.
| 348 |
American Sabra Thu, May 28, 2009 8:04:45am |
re: #336 Neuron
I really take issue with anyone who found Kathrine Harris sexy. Egads man! Get thee to an optometrist! Nevermind the fact she was a whore for the Right who believed the country should be run by the Bible not the Constitution. So crazy in fact, that when she came out with her religious rhetoric, the GOP couldn't get rid of her fast enough. What does that tell you!
The "sexy" has nothing to do with it. The Evangelical stuff certainly does. Or maybe you believe the U.S. is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles?
| 349 |
Yashmak Thu, May 28, 2009 8:16:26am |
re: #269 karmic_inquisitor
Again - what motivated all of that giving?
What?
George. Fucking. W. Bush.
I like GWB. But the Democrats froze him and branded him and he did some sort of bizzare "take the high road / take my hits" act that reminds me of Happy Gillmore taking baseballs to the chest to "toughen up" for hockey season.
The Republicans were too addicted to their pork circus to defend Bush and Bush was too principled to lead a counter attack. Cheney was the only one with good instincts but they put the Halliburton / secret bunker millstones around his neck and isolated him.
And Obama had yet to come on the scene when all of that was done.
The only thing that Obama brought was a sense that you could be "for him" rather than just against the Republicans. So he kept it positive and vague and simply did the "look presidential" schtick.
That ain't brilliant. That is being smart enought to play it safe and let your opponents melt down.
A strategy he continues to use effectively, with the latest instalment labeled "Sotomayor".
Enjoy your self delusion. When Republicans lose even more seats in 2010 (after a running a creationist /goldstandard /antivaccine and oh-yeah-fiscal-conservatism-too campaign) maybe the reality will set in.
karmic-inquisitor, that's some remarkable insight, especially the first half. Over the past few years, I've wondered why on earth Bush didn't come out and defend what were, logically, the right foreign policy decisions that he had made. The explanation you provide makes an awful lot of sense.
| 350 |
gnargtharst Thu, May 28, 2009 8:17:54am |
re: #343 MPH
I agree with that statement, MPH: "Give us a social liberal and someone who can defend free market principles and America overseas, and you've got an easy winner."
If the Republican Party's principles are such that it feels the need to include Colin Powell, then it can continue to lose my vote.
What does the Republican Party even stand for anymore? On social issues, it is in thrall to the religious wackos; in econommics, it is watered-down FDR New-Dealism, with just enough lip-service to capitalism, that when their statist policies collapse the economy, it takes capitalism down with it; and in foreign policy, they were pitifully weak in response to 9/11.
| 351 |
Yashmak Thu, May 28, 2009 8:20:52am |
re: #289 TheMatrix31
LOL @ people blaming Sarah Palin for John McCain's downfall.
LOL @ "conservatives" being turned off by the choice of Sarah Palin and going to vote for Obama instead.
The very fact that so many conservatives on this site alone have indicated they were personally turned off by the choice should tell you there's no small merit to that position.
| 352 |
gnargtharst Thu, May 28, 2009 8:29:47am |
| 353 |
Neuron Thu, May 28, 2009 10:31:38am |
re: 348
LOL, I'll give you Katherine Harris and raise you with Paula Jones. The quote is Ann Coulter's, not mine.
Second, this country was deeply founded on Judeo-Christian values. If you read the Bible, particularly the first five books, you couldn't miss it. Many of our civil laws are written from the book of Exodus.
Finally, I have deep differences with Christian Evangelicals, however I think Liberals are far more dangerous than Evangelicals. Don't YOU? And that means their careless regard for humanity, truth, and multicultural idiocy. Think man made global warming for starters.
| 354 |
Charles Johnson Thu, May 28, 2009 11:06:30am |
re: #353 Neuron
re: 348
LOL, I'll give you Katherine Harris and raise you with Paula Jones. The quote is Ann Coulter's, not mine.
Second, this country was deeply founded on Judeo-Christian values. If you read the Bible, particularly the first five books, you couldn't miss it. Many of our civil laws are written from the book of Exodus.
No, that's not true. America was founded on secular Enlightenment principles, not "Judeo-Christian values." The most influential of the founding fathers were deists who understood the value of keeping religion separate from government, and the Constitution was written -- very clearly -- with this basic principle in mind. Many of the founding fathers came to America from countries where they saw the horrors that result from mixing religion and government first-hand.
| 355 |
Charles Johnson Thu, May 28, 2009 11:08:51am |
re: #353 Neuron
The quote is Ann Coulter's, not mine.
Here are some more quotes from Ann Coulter, defending the white supremacist group Council of Conservative Citizens:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 356 |
Alan K. Henderson Thu, May 28, 2009 2:43:53pm |
Aside from what all party members have to offer - their votes for Republican candidates - what does Colin Powell have to offer the GOP?
| 357 |
Neuron Thu, May 28, 2009 3:57:19pm |
re:355
First, start with Chapters 21-24 of Exodus and then get back to me. I really don't understand the antipathy toward the text, maybe you are conflating it with Christian theology. However, even Eric Foner, author of "Give Me Liberty" (no lover of America or Christianity) could not avoid the Judeo-Christian influences in the Constitution and even more so, our laws. Yes, you are correct that the Enlightenment was also influential in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, however it does not mean religion was absent. Christians fled Europe to escape religious persecution, where did you study American history? Who do you think started the debate of "Liberty" and "Freedom"? It wasn't secularists. The framers wanted the country to be religious, but to be inclusive of all religions. By the way, it was the same religious people that fought against slavery, based on liberty and freedom for all mankind.
Finally, are you are insuating Ann Coulter is a white supremacist?
| 358 |
American Sabra Thu, May 28, 2009 4:16:33pm |
re: #353 Neuron
re: 348
LOL, I'll give you Katherine Harris and raise you with Paula Jones. The quote is Ann Coulter's, not mine.
Second, this country was deeply founded on Judeo-Christian values. If you read the Bible, particularly the first five books, you couldn't miss it. Many of our civil laws are written from the book of Exodus.
Finally, I have deep differences with Christian Evangelicals, however I think Liberals are far more dangerous than Evangelicals. Don't YOU? And that means their careless regard for humanity, truth, and multicultural idiocy. Think man made global warming for starters.
Oops I misread you. I thought you made that quote.
But Charles covered it for me in #354. I think many Americans assume the Founding Fathers were Christians. Some were, but many were not. Not Franklin or Jefferson. Neither was Thomas Paine or Sam Adams. Possibly Washington. That's why you see this from Jefferson:
We hold these truths to be self-evident,--that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
It allows each person their own intrepretation. They could have easily wrote "Jesus" and they did not.
Google this stuff. It will definitely surprise you.
| 359 |
American Sabra Thu, May 28, 2009 4:28:03pm |
re: #357 Neuron
Deism does believe in a Creator, but as I understand it, the natural world evolved on its own. It is monotheistic, but has removed the "religion" from it. I guess what they see as dogma. It's not Judeo-Christian. We're the dogmatic ones lol
I don't like the deist website. It's pretty nasty against Christians and Jews and I don't get that. Maybe they feel they have to be nasty to separate themselves.
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