Lessons from the Vaccine-Autism Wars

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Here’s an excellent article exploring the disturbing rise of irrational anti-vaccination theories, now threatening public health as diseases long thought eradicated in modern societies are returning with a vengeance: A Broken Trust: Lessons from the Vaccine–Autism Wars.

Until the summer of 2005, Sharon Kaufman had never paid much attention to the shifting theories blaming vaccines for a surge in reported cases of autism. Kaufman, a medical anthropologist at the University of California, San Francisco, knew that the leading health institutions in the United States had reviewed the body of evidence, and that they found no reason to think vaccines had anything to do with autism. But when she read that scientists and public officials who commented on the studies routinely endured malevolent emails, abusive phone calls, and even death threats, she took notice.

“Hecklers were issuing death threats to spokespeople,” Kaufman exclaims, “people who simply related the scientists’ findings.” To a researcher with a keen eye for detecting major cultural shifts, these unsettling events signaled a deeper trend. “What happens when the facts of bioscience are relayed to the public and there is disbelief, lack of trust?” Kaufman wondered. “Where does that lead us?”

Struck by how the idea of a vaccine–autism link continued to gain cultural currency even as science dismissed it, Kaufman took a 26-month hiatus from her life’s work on aging and longevity to investigate the forces fueling this growing divide between scientists and citizens. She wanted to understand how parents thought about risk and experts, how these attitudes shaped parents’ decisions about vaccination, and what the vaccine wars might teach us about the long-term erosion of public trust in science.

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462 comments
1 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:54:36pm
those clinging to doubt about vaccines may come to realize that several potentially deadly diseases are just a plane ride, or playground, away

and it's too late at that point

2 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:54:40pm

that clueless bitsh jenny mccarty did this; UNREAL stupidity

3 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:55:16pm

Some people just reject reality, like troofers and nirthers. No matter how many facts you give them, they just keep denying it. Critical thinking skills are at an all time low throughout the masses.

4 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:55:44pm

re: #1 Shug

yep; can you believe that this is EVEN an isssue? is this a joke?........./

5 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:56:08pm

Charles, why do you hate enteroviruses?

/

6 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:56:45pm

IMHO "the erosion of public trust in science" may have something to do with the erosion of the public trust in authority. It's a shame.

7 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:56:47pm

re: #3 Sharmuta
how stupid is stupid? glad my parents were born with actual brains............/

8 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:57:06pm

re: #2 gtrs

She was late to the party. This thing really started in Europe (where regard for kids is at an all time low)....
These people just suck.

9 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:59:01pm

Now I'm getting hate mail from idiots who say I'm "shilling for Hussein Obama" by linking to the Israel Project's story on his statement about Palestinian incitement.

Man, the craziness is everywhere.

10 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:00:12pm

re: #9 Charles

Any saying you're shilling for muslims by posting the Daily Mail story?

11 solomonpanting  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:00:18pm
what the vaccine wars might teach us about the long-term erosion of public trust in science

Soon, politicians will be more trusted.

12 HelloDare  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:00:21pm

We need a stupid vaccine. But then, dumb people wouldn't take it. Never mind.

13 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:01:19pm

re: #9 Charles

Just sit tight... the emails that you're shilling for autism are about to start rolling in.....

14 The Other Les  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:02:36pm

“Hecklers were issuing death threats to spokespeople,” Kaufman exclaims, “people who simply related the scientists’ findings.” To a researcher with a keen eye for detecting major cultural shifts, these unsettling events signaled a deeper trend. “What happens when the facts of bioscience are relayed to the public and there is disbelief, lack of trust?” Kaufman wondered. “Where does that lead us?”

What we're seeing here is another sign of the descent into barbarism that our nation is undergoing.

[Or. "Why am I in a basket and feel like I'm falling and getting warmer?"]

15 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:03:25pm

re: #8 tradewind
agreed; but we live HERE in the US; how can we be so frickin' stupid as a nation to still be even DISCUSSING this? it boggles the mind.................

16 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:03:33pm

"But when she read that scientists and public officials who commented on the studies routinely endured malevolent emails, abusive phone calls, and even death threats, she took notice."

Anti-vaxers want to let their kids, and everyone else, catch deadly disease's, and are willing to kill anyone that stands in their way.
Somehow I am not surprised.

17 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:04:40pm

re: #9 Charles
unreal; keep your left up.............

18 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:05:19pm

I can see where there are parents who are desperate to blame a child's autism on anything other than genetics and or environmental causes over which they may have had no control, and presto: it was the damn shot.

19 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:08:10pm

Ironically I think that part of this problem is complacency: effective vaccination programs practically removed the threat or perceived threat from many serious and even deadly diseases. Now, people think of MMR casually as "just childhood diseases" without understanding that they can cause life-long consequences, and so see potential autism as the greater danger.

20 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:10:20pm

If these hollow headed imbeciles have their way, we will be hearing "bring out your dead" twice a day.

21 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:11:00pm

I got a question for these dopes.

Do you take antibiotics?

22 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:11:21pm

re: #20 DEZes

If these hollow headed imbeciles have their way, we will be hearing "bring out your dead" twice a day.

"I'm getting better!"

23 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:12:26pm

re: #19 Sand Panda

Probably none of those parents understand that complications of measles can lead to pneumonia, deafness, or even encephalitis and death within days.....there should be a PSA.

24 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:12:34pm

re: #22 BatGuano

"I'm getting better!"

No thread is complete without at least one Monty Python quote. :-)

25 poteen  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:13:07pm

re: #12 HelloDare

No proof or rational argument can convince an idiot that he's an idiot.
Or vaccine.

26 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:13:10pm

re: #24 Sand Panda

Dez started it!

27 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:13:14pm

re: #23 tradewind

I think PSAs would be a great idea.

28 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:14:05pm

re: #27 Sharmuta

I mean, shots of polar bears stranded on ice caps are great, but these would be more practical.

29 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:14:12pm

re: #26 BatGuano

Dez started it!

Who, huh, what.
*Walks away whistling *

30 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:14:54pm

re: #23 tradewind

Probably none of those parents understand that complications of measles can lead to pneumonia, deafness, or even encephalitis and death within days.....there should be a PSA.

tradewind ... you mean the ones taking their kids to "measles parties" ... they may be a lost cause .... this is one topic I just will never understand ... never ... why are people turning on vaccines now ... because some stupid celebrities have embraced it? ... really why now ...

31 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:16:02pm

re: #30 JacksonTn

I'm tempted to say they're the ones who got the brown acid, but.......

32 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:16:33pm

re: #23 tradewind

Exactly - an effective PSA campaign is definitely the way forward. Mind you, it would probably cause a few exploded heads amongst a few of the more, uh, conspiratorially inclined anti-sciencers.

33 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:17:02pm

re: #15 gtrs

Same reason the nation is stupid enough to be discussing European style health care.

34 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:17:07pm

re: #30 JacksonTn

tradewind ... you mean the ones taking their kids to "measles parties" ... they may be a lost cause .... this is one topic I just will never understand ... never ... why are people turning on vaccines now ... because some stupid celebrities have embraced it? ... really why now ...

The Soylent Green factories are low on inventory again.

35 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:17:30pm

OT: Guess the ethnicity before clicking the link.....


'This has been my dream,' spelling bee winner says

36 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:18:05pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: Guess the ethnicity before clicking the link.....


'This has been my dream,' spelling bee winner says

KT ... Indian ... did not click ...

37 HelloDare  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:18:26pm

What are insurance companies doing about this? Is there a clause about diseases that are prevented by vaccination? Seems to me they'd be concerned.

38 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:18:41pm

re: #36 JacksonTn

Surprise!
/

39 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:18:47pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: Guess the ethnicity before clicking the link.....


'This has been my dream,' spelling bee winner says

why?

40 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:19:12pm

Good evening lizards! Hope everyone is well today...
Charles has done a wonderful service for our children..Kudo's Charles
Phil over at Bad Astronomy has also done a world class effort in the scientific community of bloggers fighting the Anti-vaxers. Kudo's Phil
Phil has posted a very well done video by the CDC about Vaccinations..
It's worth bookmarking it and sharing it to concerned parents...[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com...]

41 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:19:17pm

re: #26 BatGuano

re: #29 DEZes

Is that a whistle I heard?

42 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:19:26pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Surprise!
/

KT ... maybe there is an older cute sister in the family for you ...

43 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:20:02pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Surprise!
/

I don't understand the Surprise! or the sarc tag.

44 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:20:07pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: Guess the ethnicity before clicking the link.....


'This has been my dream,' spelling bee winner says

Saw it last night. I watch every year. Speling wasmy best supject. Congrats to all participants.

45 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:21:25pm

re: #39 brookly red

Because the spelling bee winners are almost always Indian kids. Indian immigrants are pretty serious about education for their kids. Not sure why they do so well at spelling in particular.

46 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:21:26pm

re: #41 Sand Panda

* whistling along*

47 kynna  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:21:30pm

I knew Jenny McCarthy had the capability of spreading disease, I just didn't think it would this kind.

These people are nuts. This is a great article. If you haven't read the whole thing I highly recommend it.

48 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:23:26pm

re: #41 Sand Panda

re: #29 DEZes

Is that a whistle I heard?

"life's a piece of shit,
when you look at it"

49 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:23:57pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Because the spelling bee winners are almost always Indian kids. Indian immigrants are pretty serious about education for their kids. Not sure why they do so well at spelling in particular.

oh, OK.
I had not noticed that.

50 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:23:57pm

Ah, maybe this is the reason.....
Why kids in families from India spell well


In 1993, a group of influential Indian-Americans noticed that children of immigrants from India were doing very well in the math section of the SAT, but finishing only average in the verbal category. They wanted to fix that. And one came up with this idea: Hold spelling bees.

"Spelling is the foundation of the language," said Ratnam Chitturi, founder and president of what's called, the North South Foundation.

The organization, which was created to give scholarships to poor Indians, soon began sponsoring spelling bees for Indian children. It began doing so all over the United States.

51 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:24:16pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Because the spelling bee winners are almost always Indian kids. Indian immigrants are pretty serious about education for their kids. Not sure why they do so well at spelling in particular.

Actual Indians are pretty serious about it too, where it's available. I have had numerous Indian coworkers over the years ... all experienced the "it takes a village" upbringing. One in particular had to cross his entire village to get home from elementary or primary school. On report card day, as a known "bright" child, he was stopped and the card inspected by every elder of the village. He told me once he tried to ignore the command to halt, was chased down, hauled by the ear to his mother, and made to apologize.

52 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:24:27pm

We need Alex Jones to weigh in on the vaccine controvercy.

no doubt, the New World Order is Causing autism

53 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:24:53pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

Sounds like ... community organization.

/

54 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:25:03pm

PIMF

controversy.

I always misspell that

55 ryannon  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:25:14pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: Guess the ethnicity before clicking the link.....

'This has been my dream,' spelling bee winner says

0:37

56 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:25:17pm

re: #51 OldLineTexan

Heh, I believe it.

57 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:25:20pm

re: #52 Shug

We need Alex Jones to weigh in on the vaccine controvercy.

no doubt, the New World Order is Causing autism

Come to think of it, it does give me a peculiar twitch.

/

58 HelloDare  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:26:04pm

I'm worried about diseases carried by illegal immigrants. Tip the barbed wire at the border with vaccine. That's the ticket!

59 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:26:08pm

I would like to point out, as I did on a previous thread covering this topic, that every public school in the nation requires a medically-documented MMR vaccination for attendance and class placement in grades K - 4.

This requirement accrues to most parochial and other private schools, too.

Who exactly are we talking about?

.

60 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:26:12pm

re: #52 Shug

We need Alex Jones to weigh in on the vaccine controvercy.

no doubt, the New World Order is Causing autism

Yes- because the NWO is using vaccines to cover the mind control serum.

61 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:26:37pm

re: #48 BatGuano

"life's a piece of shit,
when you look at it"

I think we have a new rotating title nomination...

Is Charles a Python fan?

62 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:27:16pm

re: #59 Dad O' Blondes

There are religious and medical exceptions allowed, and a whack job pediatrician is not that hard to find.

63 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:27:48pm

re: #55 ryannon

It's interesting to not the google ads that run at the bottom of the video. "Vaccine dangers - the dvd"

64 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:29:06pm

I have a vague memory of vaccinations being required to attend public school. Did they drop that requirement?

65 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:29:13pm

Wait till the anti-vaxers see this

66 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:29:40pm

re: #59 Dad O' Blondes

I seem to remember that too.

67 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:29:44pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Hell's bells.... look at their names! You'd be a spelling whiz too, if you had to memorize all those consonants and vowels just to write your name or email a friend.....
:)

68 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:30:16pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

I know - it's like getting those Muslim dating ads at the bottom of news articles about honour killings.

69 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:30:29pm

re: #24 Sand Panda a more apropiate one here would be "bring out your dead"............

70 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:30:39pm

We are always pointing out that the antivaxxers argue primarily from emotion, while we are arguing from objective fact.
I think we need to emphasize a little more that we, too, have an emotional stake in this, even as we rest our case on the bedrock of reality.
I love children, especially babies.
It breaks my heart, almost literally, that there are babies out there today who will die, actually die, because their well-meaning parents listen to Oprah and Jenny McCarthy but have never heard of Phil Plait or anyone like him. This is as certain as the sun rising in the east tomorrow.
That is an emotional statement, but it is also a factual statement.
The antivax people are criminals in fact if not yet in legal theory.

71 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:30:44pm

re: #65 DEZes

Wait till the anti-vaxers see this

Turkey baster!

/

72 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:30:45pm

re: #61 Sand Panda

/ Naw. He's too serious

73 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:30:53pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

I have a vague memory of vaccinations being required to attend public school. Did they drop that requirement?

Not where I live.

No form, no go to school.

No go to school, the LAW shows up.

/no personal experience with home-schooling or private/parochial

However, my neighbor is on the board of their kid's private school. They require vaccinations. I neglected to ask if it was a state rule.

74 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:31:07pm

re: #58 HelloDare

The legal ones and the Just Visiting fly in with some pretty good doses as well...

75 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:31:35pm

re: #65 DEZes

Wait till the anti-vaxers see this

Warning please! I just soiled myself.

76 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:31:43pm

re: #74 tradewind

The legal ones and the Just Visiting fly in with some pretty good doses as well...

trade ... I posted to you in the last thread ...

77 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:31:45pm

re: #71 Gus 802

Turkey baster!

/

Did you ever get a shot with the air-gun thingy?

OUCH!

78 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:31:52pm

re: #69 gtrs

a more apropiate one here would be "bring out your dead"............

Maybe, but I'm something of an optimist (see post 41).

79 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:32:06pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

It's interesting to not the google ads that run at the bottom of the video. "Vaccine dangers - the dvd"

Is that anything like "Spaceballs - The Breakfast Cereal" or "Spaceballs - The Flamethrower"?

80 Velvet Elvis  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:32:16pm

I hadn't realized the rater was 25% that believe this crap. Wow. PSAs or some kind of public education program is definitely in order.

81 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:33:02pm

re: #77 OldLineTexan

Did you ever get a shot with the air-gun thingy?

OUCH!

I think so. Once. Just looking at it as a kid was scary enough.

82 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:33:04pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: Guess the ethnicity before clicking the link.....


'This has been my dream,' spelling bee winner says

Kansan, she lives just south of here. Like many Kansans, she starts off some sentences with "Ok".

Ok, Olathe has some great schools.

83 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:33:06pm

re: #80 Conservative Moonbat

I hadn't realized the rater was 25% that believe this crap. Wow. PSAs or some kind of public education program is definitely in order.

CM ... the only PSA that would probably help would be one from Obama ... sad to say that but it is true ... would he do it? who knows ...

84 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:33:18pm

re: #75 BatGuano

Warning please! I just soiled myself.

Let me Google bed pans, brb. ;)

85 rightside  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:33:41pm

re: #77 OldLineTexan

I still have the scar on my bicep.

86 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:33:54pm

re: #65 DEZes

Wait till the anti-vaxers see this

Bend over. This won't hurt.

87 rightside  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:34:05pm

re: #77 OldLineTexan

Or was that the other one?

88 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:34:18pm

re: #40 HoosierHoops
any parent that does not vaccinate their children should be charged with child abuse

89 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:34:35pm

re: #83 JacksonTn

CM ... the only PSA that would probably help would be one from Obama ... sad to say that but it is true ... would he do it? who knows ...

how does the vote gain calc work out?...take it from there

90 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:34:38pm

re: #85 rightside

I still have the scar on my bicep.

rs .. me too ... some people got really big scars ... I still remember the line we had to wait in ... and the scabs from the shot ... ewwwwwww

91 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:35:11pm

re: #88 gtrs

any parent that does not vaccinate their children should be charged with child abuse

Or/and wanton endangerment.

92 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:35:20pm

Texas allows exemptions from the vaccination requirement, for "reasons of conscience:"
Frequently Asked Questions
Vaccine Exemption for Reasons of Conscience

93 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:35:28pm

re: #82 Thanos

They must put something special in the corn and beef curry.

94 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:36:08pm

re: #88 gtrs

any parent that does not vaccinate their children should be charged with child abuse

sounds too harsh...defying a court order works for me

95 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:36:11pm

re: #76 JacksonTn

saw that, just answered.

96 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:36:57pm

re: #65 DEZes

Wait till the anti-vaxers see this

I know that guy from the VA clinic.

97 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:36:59pm

re: #84 DEZes

Let me Google bed pans, brb. ;)

A little late now.

98 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:37:00pm

re: #90 JacksonTn

rs .. me too ... some people got really big scars ... I still remember the line we had to wait in ... and the scabs from the shot ... ewwwwwww

Assholes shot us from both sides.

99 Cheechako  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:37:19pm

The anti-vaccine crowd is similar to the "No Fluoride in My Water" bunch. A couple of years ago my community had a huge battle on whether to continue adding fluoride to our drinking. Multiple for and against ads in the local paper and on radio. Almost all the dentists supported adding fluoride. The issue finally came to a vote and adding fluoride lost. Now the dentists are reporting a significant increase in cavities in our kids. Am I surprised?

100 rightside  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:37:41pm

re: #98 screaming_eagle

I got both sides when I joined the Navy. Ouch!

101 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:38:28pm

re: #91 DEZesagreed; will someone please tell me WHY this is even a debate? sorry folks, i don't get it; we are talking about innocent children here; this is NOT a political issue

102 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:38:30pm

re: #72 BatGuano

/ Naw. He's too serious

I suppose waking up everyday to an inbox of fresh hate emails practically flecking the screen with enraged saliva everyday will do that.

Oddly enough, the most rabid Pythonites I know are the most serious minded people. I suspect there must be a link between memorising long, convoluted quotes and anal personality types. *cough cough*

103 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:39:29pm

re: #73 OldLineTexan

I believe that all the states have religious exemptions, but if that fails the parents can always get a pedes doc to say the vaccination is medically contraindicated (allergies). Those are the docs that oughta be hauled up before the board, IMO.

104 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:40:19pm

re: #91 DEZes

Or/and wanton endangerment.

Back in the 80's I was on Mare Island when one of the food workers came down with Hep A.. All 15000 Civilians and 10000 Navy folks had to get a shot within like 2 days..They lined us up all around the shipyard to get shots..
You walk behind a curtain drop your pants and all they said was left or right butt? I went left...boom..pull your pants up and get the hell out..A crazy 2 days working for the Navy

105 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:40:39pm

re: #97 BatGuano

A little late now.

Great, with all this talk of bedpans I can only imagine what the Google context ads are going to look like now - "Meet Sexy Muslim Bed Pans in YOUR AREA and Get a Mercury-Free Vaccination with Each Wife!"

106 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:40:47pm

re: #101 gtrs

agreed; will someone please tell me WHY this is even a debate? sorry folks, i don't get it; we are talking about innocent children here; this is NOT a political issue

community health care is often a hot button political issue...it comes and goes

107 rightymouse  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:40:59pm

re: #59 Dad O' Blondes

I would like to point out, as I did on a previous thread covering this topic, that every public school in the nation requires a medically-documented MMR vaccination for attendance and class placement in grades K - 4.

This requirement accrues to most parochial and other private schools, too.

Who exactly are we talking about?

.

That's what I want to know too. My autistic son has gone to private schools his entire academic life (except kindergarten) and the vaccination record is a MUST along with a birth certificate, among required documents for enrollment.

108 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:41:00pm

re: #92 shiplord kirel

Texas allows exemptions from the vaccination requirement, for "reasons of conscience:"
Frequently Asked Questions
Vaccine Exemption for Reasons of Conscience

Many states allow exemptions from vaccination.

Some GOP state platforms have started to specifically call for allowing exemptions too, by the way. The same platforms that call for teaching creationism in science classes...

109 abolitionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:41:35pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

I have a vague memory of vaccinations being required to attend public school. Did they drop that requirement?

May find answers here: Vaccines & Immunizations - Requirements & Laws

110 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:41:51pm

A few gems from the Texas Vaccine Exemption FAQ:(This is an official document, btw)

Q. What if there is a vaccine-preventable disease—such as measles—outbreak at a school?
A. Each parent or guardian who signs a vaccine exemption affidavit form also is acknowledging they understand that their child may be excluded from school attendance in times of emergency or epidemic declared by the Texas Commissioner of Health.
Q. Does this new vaccine exemption option mean that my vaccinated child may be attending school with other children who are not fully vaccinated?
A. Yes.

......
Q. Are there other reasons a child may be exempted from vaccination requirements?
A. A child may be exempt from one or more vaccinations for medical reasons. The parent or guardian must provide the school with a certificate signed by a physician, registered and licensed to practice medicine in Texas, which states that, in the physician’s opinion, the immunization required would be injurious to the child’s health and well-being or to any of the child’s family or household members. Unless a lifelong condition is specified, that certificate is valid for one year from the date signed by the physician and must be renewed every year for the exclusion to remain in effect. Texas (emphasis added)

The last provision is where antivax quacks come in. As someone mentioned earlier, they are not hard to find.

111 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:42:10pm

re: #99 Cheechako
exactly; this is such a "duh" issue; we have the technology, it is FREE from the gov; those folks in that town now are responsible for their children's BAD TEETH and need to whipped in the town square

112 Cathypop  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:42:59pm

Why have these parents shut their friggin brains off? These are innocent children that need their parents to take care of them but instead the moronic, MFMSN worshipping parent believes in gossip and puts their child in danger. And the child suffers but the parent feels good. OOOOH!

113 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:43:53pm

re: #103 tradewind
agreed BUT the parents need to be held accountable as well; adults are RESPONSIBLE for their actions(and in my opinion in this circumstance it is a no-brainer)

114 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:44:18pm

re: #112 Cathypop
it boggles the mind...........

115 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:45:59pm

re: #111 gtrs

exactly; this is such a "duh" issue; we have the technology, it is FREE from the gov; those folks in that town now are responsible for their children's BAD TEETH and need to whipped in the town square

We dont want Fluoride in the water, here have a cupcake and a Mountain Dew.
I wish that were a joke.

116 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:46:09pm

re: #112 Cathypop

Why have these parents shut their friggin brains off? These are innocent children that need their parents to take care of them but instead the moronic, MFMSN worshipping parent believes in gossip and puts their child in danger. And the child suffers but the parent feels good. OOOOH!

A parent protects their child..They never expose them..
That covers the entire book of child rearing..

117 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:46:35pm

The Same parents who put their children at risk for HORRIBLE infectious diseases, will absolutely go ape shit if they can't find Organic Milk or BPA free bottles

MORON
MORON
MORON

118 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:46:45pm

re: #102 Sand Panda

I suppose waking up everyday to an inbox of fresh hate emails practically flecking the screen with enraged saliva everyday will do that.

Oddly enough, the most rabid Pythonites I know are the most serious minded people. I suspect there must be a link between memorising long, convoluted quotes and anal personality types. *cough cough*

Python is a great outlet for serious minded people who need an escapet from the idiocy that is experienced everyday. Python meets this idiocy and skewers it.

119 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:47:27pm

re: #115 DEZes

We dont want Fluoride in the water, here have a cupcake and a Mountain Dew.
I wish that were a joke.

No Moon Pie? Actually, I became addicted to these confections during my army service in the Carolinas, where they are a staple of the diet.

120 Cathypop  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:48:06pm

re: #116 HoosierHoops

A parent protects their child..They never expose them..
That covers the entire book of child rearing..

These parents are NOT protecting their children. DUMB F's!

121 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:48:17pm

re: #119 shiplord kirel

No Moon Pie? Actually, I became addicted to these confections during my army service in the Carolinas, where they are a staple of the diet.

shiplord .. you must drink RC Cola with a Moonpie! ...

122 Canoe Train  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:48:45pm

re: #20 DEZes

If these hollow headed imbeciles have their way, we will be hearing "bring out your dead" twice a day.

"Bring out yer dead" "I'm not dead yet!"

123 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:48:56pm

re: #119 shiplord kirel

No Moon Pie? Actually, I became addicted to these confections during my army service in the Carolinas, where they are a staple of the diet.

Last time I ate a moon pie was around 1970. give or take a year.

124 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:49:49pm

re: #78 Sand Panda
i wish i could be BUT then i see where the kid who needs chemo(very treatable with like a 90% survival rate) is being influenced by his "loving" mother into believing he can survive without it(without the chemo, HE WILL DIE)

125 Cathypop  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:49:52pm

re: #119 shiplord kirel

No Moon Pie? Actually, I became addicted to these confections during my army service in the Carolinas, where they are a staple of the diet.

OH MAN I loved Moon Pies! Are they still around?

126 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:50:27pm

re: #116 HoosierHoops you said it ALL

127 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:51:07pm

re: #125 Cathypop

OH MAN I loved Moon Pies! Are they still around?

[Link: www.moonpie.com...]

128 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:51:21pm

re: #121 JacksonTn

shiplord .. you must drink RC Cola with a Moonpie! ...

Especially for breakfast. Back in the day, you could get this combination for a quarter. Today it's about 2 bucks and you have to substitute Dr. Pepper for the RC here in the culinary wilderness of west Texas.
Like most Moon Pie gourmets, I turn my nose up at the banana variety and abhor the heretical strawberry flavor.

129 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:51:37pm

re: #122 Canoe Train
flesh wound.................

130 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:52:15pm

I never had a Moon Pie...I feel so....unfulfilled

131 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:52:20pm

re: #128 shiplord kirel

Especially for breakfast. Back in the day, you could get this combination for a quarter. Today it's about 2 bucks and you have to substitute Dr. Pepper for the RC here in the culinary wilderness of west Texas.
Like most Moon Pie gourmets, I turn my nose up at the banana variety and abhor the heretical strawberry flavor.

ship ... yes, and I do not like the double decker moonpies either ... my sister lived on them ...

132 Cathypop  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:52:36pm

re: #127 albusteve

[Link: www.moonpie.com...]


HEAVEN! Thanks! This means extra half hour at the gym. Worth it!

133 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:53:51pm

re: #130 albusteve

I never had a Moon Pie...I feel so....unfulfilled

Its mostly marshmallow, which is something I cant stand.
No SMORs for me, thanks.

134 Cathypop  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:54:05pm

re: #130 albusteve

I never had a Moon Pie...I feel so....unfulfilled


But you just gave me the site to get them ? Go now! They are wonderful!

135 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:54:22pm

re: #118 BatGuano

Python is a great outlet for serious minded people who need an escapet from the idiocy that is experienced everyday. Python meets this idiocy and skewers it.

This is probably why both Pratchett and Python appeal to a certain section of the population to such a high degree.

Sometimes I feel that being able to recognise Python quotes is like being secretly awarded membership to a vast club of like-minded people.

136 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:54:24pm

re: #130 albusteve

I never had a Moon Pie...I feel so....unfulfilled

Never had a Moon Pie? Get off Charles's website!.. Never mind. I can't do that.

137 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:54:33pm

re: #129 gtrs

flesh wound.................

"come back and fight"

138 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:55:00pm

Moon Pie Memories

[Link: www.moonpie.com...]

139 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:55:19pm

re: #106 albusteve
welcome back to the DARK AGES..............

140 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:55:41pm

re: #138 albusteve

Moon Pie Memories

[Link: www.moonpie.com...]

albusteve ... I believe they use to throw them from Mardi Gras parades in Mobile ... not sure if they still do that ...

141 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:55:41pm

re: #130 albusteve
buddy you missed out

142 livefreeor die  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:56:19pm

I wonder what my grandmother would have thought about all this. She used to tell me about how frightening the beginning of summer was for parents because you knew that polio would be going around. She would be stunned that these anti-vaccination people are that stupid.

143 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:57:00pm

re: #111 gtrs

exactly; this is such a "duh" issue; we have the technology, it is FREE from the gov; those folks in that town now are responsible for their children's BAD TEETH and need to whipped in the town square

Nothing from the gov is free.

144 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:57:17pm

Anybody ever Play Redneck Rampage?
You ate moon pies in the game for health points. ;)

145 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:57:24pm

re: #130 albusteve

I never had a Moon Pie...I feel so....unfulfilled

Commiserations fellow Moon Pie virgin...

146 nyc redneck  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:57:30pm

these anti-vaxers are setting up a situation where their children could grow up to be very vulnerable young adults. are they even concerned w/ that?
childhood diseases running thru an unvaccinated adult population can cause great harm. measles in pregnant women can be devastating. and mumps in teenage boys can cause sterility. and an outbreak of polio would be heartbreaking.
the public health dept. needs to put more into educating people.
and stupid irresponsible yap traps like oprah need to stop giving give air time to these attention seeking troublemakers pushing this anti-science b.s.

147 livefreeor die  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:57:38pm

re: #143 OldLineTexan

Nothing from the gov is free.

'cause freedom costs a buck o'five...

148 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:57:54pm

I've been following this debate with a great deal of interest. While it is clear that genetic factors are involved, it is also likely that environmental factors are also at play. Perhaps this is also an evolutionary step--backwards. Vaccines have been one of the greatest lifesavers of our time; It means many more children who might not have made it beyond early childhood or infancy, have survived. Ultimately, who can predict what effect this may have on societies in future generations? But gene development is affected by social conditions as well.
Right now, all over the world, there are pockets in societies that tolerate men who impregnate many women, fathering children who often have no idea who their fathers are. Later, when sexual activity turns to producing more children--the problems associated with "inbreeding" will undoubtedly become more and more apparent. We can see it in small closed communities like the Amish.

Dr. Holmes Morton has been one of those working with the Amish to isolate genes involved in diseases or conditions we now know are genetic.
Theories about immunity have rested on the idea of an innate immune system which was supplemented (well, maybe not a good word choice, here) by the Adaptive immune system--one that grows progressively stronger as it reacts to combat antigens. The question I find interesting is from whence cometh these diseases that can strike us down (like the aliens in War of the Worlds), but lose their efficacy as humans' immune response adapts and overcomes them.
New antigens emerge (probably evolving and adapting like viruses) and the immediate threat to the human community is obvious--the Spanish flu, is a good example. Scarlet fever, a once-feared condition, now better understood and treated, oddly enough is extremely rare in children under about 3 years old. However, it strikes children through later adolescence far more commonly--then is rare in adults. This could be related to chemical changes we don't yet understand, but ones which I wonder is the transitional period between the old dependable innate immune system and the adaptive one growing stronger as it faces armies of antigens in the environment.
We can always thank Alexander Fleming and Pasteur for keeping our family line from dying out before we managed to get here. It is also interesting to think that gradual exposure to these diseases may have rendered them harmless to the surviving population--rather like the black plague. My curiosity is piqued by the complexity of epigenetics but even more, the origin of diseases and the mechanisms that trigger autoimmune diseases. Somewhere at the back of my mind is the idea that autism may turn out to be related to that class of disease.

149 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:57:56pm

re: #20 DEZes
yep

150 mikeymom  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:58:02pm

my fav snack was drake's funny bones--choc and pb--btw, hubby and i has a fantastic trip to cancun last week--resort was only 30% occupied--many workers were working half shifts--very sad-only masks we saw were when we arrived-2 health workers checking temps at airport--hard working people really hurting from media scare tactics IMHO

151 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:58:22pm

re: #143 OldLineTexan
this is

152 livefreeor die  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:58:36pm

re: #137 DEZes

"come back and fight"

"What are you going to do? Bleed on me?"

153 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:58:42pm

re: #12 HelloDare

We need a stupid vaccine. But then, dumb people wouldn't take it. Never mind.

Hey! That's an idea whose time needs to come pretty quickly!

154 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:59:11pm

I ate a moon pie once years ago.
Didn't like it.

it went into the bin less than half eaten

/ducks

155 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:59:18pm

re: #145 Sand Panda

Commiserations fellow Moon Pie virgin...

outcasts...
the Moon Pie Nazis are already on the loose...

156 researchok  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:59:56pm

Excellent article.

At best, it highlights a pop culture truth- that having an opinion makes that opinion equal in merit to every other opinion.

Further, people believe that having an opinion is equal in merit to relevant expertise and training. I'd like to ask Jenny McCarthy et al, where they got their medical degrees, where they have published papers in peer reviewed journals and where they did their research internship and under whose supervision.

This whole thing is reminiscent of the DDT fiasco that has led to a resurgence of malaria and other diseases in Africa and the developing world since DDT was banned.

The number of recorded DDT related deaths stands at exactly zero.

157 mikeymom  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:00:30pm

re: #154 Shug

I ate a moon pie once years ago.
Didn't like it.

it went into the bin less than half eaten

/ducks

moon pies are an aquired taste--like scotch whiskey

158 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:00:32pm

re: #144 DEZes

Anybody ever Play Redneck Rampage?
You ate moon pies in the game for health points. ;)

I often get the feeling of wanting to go on a Redneck Rampage right through the halls of congress.

159 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:00:43pm

Good lord. I just checked out what the crowd at Free Republic had to say about Sen. John Cornyn's criticism of Limbaugh. "Over the top" doesn't even begin to describe it. The undiluted hatred they're spewing at Cornyn -- the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee! -- is almost unbelievable.

160 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:02:20pm

One example out of dozens:

Senator Cornyn is a living, breathing example of how spineless the McCain wing of the Repub Party is.

The Dems had no hesitation to go after Black and Hispanic nominees of Bush.

Of course, in the Civil War and Jim Crow years, it was the Dems who wanted to keep slavery of Blacks. And the way 95 pct of Blacks vote Dem, shows the Blacks want back on the plantation.

Absolutely disgusting. Is this what the GOP base has become?

161 Joan Not of Arc  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:02:39pm

Reading about these things makes me think we've devolved as a species. It's not a nice thing to say but really- the fact that these people are alive because of vaccines just doesn't dawn on them and therefore makes me lose hope in humanity.

(sigh)

162 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:02:50pm

re: #135 Sand Panda

Sometimes I feel that being able to recognise Python quotes is like being secretly awarded membership to a vast club of like-minded people.

It is. Over the last 35 years I have used Python quotes in casual conversation;
If no one gets it, I move on. If they do, we have something in common.

163 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:02:54pm

Although I blame vaccine alarmists for a large part of this problem, I also blame the health care establishment. Apart from Dr. Paul Offit and a few others, no one's out there countering the relentlessly negative anti-vaccine message of McCarthy and others. The forces advocating for the safety of vaccines needs a systematic public relations campaign in schools, doctor's offices, hospitals, classrooms, and everywhere parents and children receive information about health care.

The MSM shouldn't be let off the hook either.

164 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:03:03pm
re:

#152 livefreeor die

re: #137 DEZes

165 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:03:30pm

re: #159 Charles

I haven't been to Freeperland since I caught a major s-storm for failing to defend Francisco Franco sufficiently. I merely said he wasn't a "good guy" but I did give him credit for keeping the commies from taking over Spain. Franco has some serious admirers over there.

166 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:03:35pm

re: #159 Charles

Good lord. I just checked out what the crowd at Free Republic had to say about Sen. John Cornyn's criticism of Limbaugh. "Over the top" doesn't even begin to describe it. The undiluted hatred they're spewing at Cornyn -- the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee! -- is almost unbelievable.

so much for civil restraint and respect for the GOP....Republicans give me a bad vibe...these comments are public record to a point...screed is not discourse

167 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:03:47pm

re: #148 katemaclaren

You might be interested in this, it's long but covers the gamut of what we know about the different autisms now.

168 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:05:39pm

controversy becomes a street fight...how unbecoming

169 Velvet Elvis  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:05:58pm

re: #125 Cathypop

OH MAN I loved Moon Pies! Are they still around?

Every June there's an RC and Moon Pie festival in Bell Buckle TN. Come on down.

[Link: www.bellbucklechamber.com...]

170 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:05:59pm

re: #152 livefreeor die

"What are you going to do? Bleed on me?"

"we'll call it a draw"]

171 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:06:07pm

re: #168 albusteve

Politics is now a street fight. Our Founders are rolling in their graves.

172 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:06:14pm

re: #156 researchok

Excellent article.

At best, it highlights a pop culture truth- that having an opinion makes that opinion equal in merit to every other opinion.

Further, people believe that having an opinion is equal in merit to relevant expertise and training. I'd like to ask Jenny McCarthy et al, where they got their medical degrees, where they have published papers in peer reviewed journals and where they did their research internship and under whose supervision.

This whole thing is reminiscent of the DDT fiasco that has led to a resurgence of malaria and other diseases in Africa and the developing world since DDT was banned.

The number of recorded DDT related deaths stands at exactly zero.

My mother has told me stories of the DDT truck driving through town. It dumped huge amounts of smoke and many kids would run behind the truck playing in the smoke. Prolly wasn't a smart idea but none of them died or grew an extra arm.

173 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:06:29pm

re: #156 researchok

Excellent article.

At best, it highlights a pop culture truth- that having an opinion makes that opinion equal in merit to every other opinion.

Further, people believe that having an opinion is equal in merit to relevant expertise and training. I'd like to ask Jenny McCarthy et al, where they got their medical degrees, where they have published papers in peer reviewed journals and where they did their research internship and under whose supervision.

This whole thing is reminiscent of the DDT fiasco that has led to a resurgence of malaria and other diseases in Africa and the developing world since DDT was banned.

The number of recorded DDT related deaths stands at exactly zero.

Yet, it was a bandwagon effect of Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring. We have to watch out for bandwagons.

174 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:07:18pm

re: #172 screaming_eagle

I was one of those kids!

175 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:07:33pm

re: #171 Sharmuta

It was a street fight back then as well, just more genteel.

176 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:07:40pm

re: #172 screaming_eagle

My mother has told me stories of the DDT truck driving through town. It dumped huge amounts of smoke and many kids would run behind the truck playing in the smoke. Prolly wasn't a smart idea but none of them died or grew an extra arm.

se .. that was me ! ... I swear when the mosquito truck came we all ran behind it ... we even stopped playing kick ball under the street lights to chase the truck ... crazy ... we didn't know any better ... I guess neither did our parents ... !

177 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:07:56pm

re: #167 Thanos

You might be interested in this, it's long but covers the gamut of what we know about the different autisms now.


[Video]

Thank you! I am.

178 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:07:57pm

re: #162 BatGuano

Sometimes I feel that being able to recognise Python quotes is like being secretly awarded membership to a vast club of like-minded people.

It is. Over the last 35 years I have used Python quotes in casual conversation;
If no one gets it, I move on. If they do, we have something in common.

Hmm, now to work out how to nonchalantly drop “Your highness, when I said that you are like a stream of bat's piss, I only mean that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around it is dark” into casual conversation...

179 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:08:00pm

re: #172 screaming_eagle

My mother has told me stories of the DDT truck driving through town. It dumped huge amounts of smoke and many kids would run behind the truck playing in the smoke. Prolly wasn't a smart idea but none of them died or grew an extra arm.

You never know, they might have become Oprah fans........

180 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:08:05pm

re: #175 Thanos

It was more civil then. Civility in politics is dead.

181 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:08:15pm

I haven't read the article yet, but I'd be interested to know how the anti-vax sentiment relates to suspicions about government medical policies, especially among African-Americans. Because of the Tuskegee project, a lot of less educated individuals are ready to believe all kinds of conspiracy theories. Some people still think AIDS was created in a lab specifically to kill black people, and that crack was part of a CIA project with similar goals. While I have yet to encounter any prominent black anti-vaxers, it seems like a similar mentality at work here.

182 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:08:19pm

re: #160 Charles

Looks like the same crowd the ventures to the Yahoo Sports hockey blogs. No I take that back, these are definitely more loony.

183 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:08:22pm

re: #160 Charles

No, but Limbaugh responded publicly and on air to Cornyn's naming him publicly by noting that he had held a fundraiser for the Senator for which Cornyn expressed gratitude. Limbaugh resents the touch of ingratitude or "bite the hand that feeds you" here.

The GOP has to learn to disagree respectfully with Limbaugh on specific points without engaging in a full frontal assault on the man. They might even want to give him a call to talk about how to manage these questions. Demonizing Limbaugh is a lose/lose for them.

184 ConservativeAtheist  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:09:09pm

re: #178 Sand Panda

Hmm, now to work out how to nonchalantly drop “Your highness, when I said that you are like a stream of bat's piss, I only mean that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around it is dark” into casual conversation...

Not to mention, "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"

185 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:09:54pm

re: #174 katemaclaren

I was one of those kids!

And look at you now, your a Lizard. ;)

186 researchok  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:09:59pm

re: #173 katemaclaren

Rachel Carson is responsible for the death of millions- something McCarthy and the like would do well to remember.

187 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:10:03pm

re: #175 Thanos

It was a street fight back then as well, just more genteel.

genteel at least gives the appearance of credibility...this continuous shit slinging really turns me off...public figures look like wannabe reality show contestants...AmIdol politics

188 livefreeor die  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:10:07pm

re: #156 researchok

Excellent article.

At best, it highlights a pop culture truth- that having an opinion makes that opinion equal in merit to every other opinion.

Further, people believe that having an opinion is equal in merit to relevant expertise and training. I'd like to ask Jenny McCarthy et al, where they got their medical degrees, where they have published papers in peer reviewed journals and where they did their research internship and under whose supervision.

This whole thing is reminiscent of the DDT fiasco that has led to a resurgence of malaria and other diseases in Africa and the developing world since DDT was banned.

The number of recorded DDT related deaths stands at exactly zero.

I wonder how much this "Everybody's opinion has equal merit" way of thinking is the result of "Everybody gets a trophy" in schools and other settings over the past twenty years. A lot of people don't seem to consider the reasoning or, as you point out, training, research, and experience behind some opinions and how these can truly make some POVs more valuable than others when it comes to science and such. Instead of appreciating the scientific method, people consider experts to be "elitist". Thus, we get morons like Jenny McCarthy spouting off and getting forums for her idiocy.

Years ago, our school board approved building a "green" school based in large part on the statements of two parents who were substance abuse counselors. They told the board that solvents shouldn't be used in making the furniture or building the school because they could give off fumes and, based on their experience working with people who huffed solvents, they knew the negative impact the solvents would have on kids. Apparently, nobody challenged them on making the jump from their field to construction and they were treated as construction experts.

189 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:10:10pm

re: #183 quickjustice

I think that's bs. Rush is a big boy and should be able to take criticisms. Since when does having the man host a fundraiser for you mean you can't think for yourself and ever disagree with him?

190 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:10:36pm

re: #181 doppelganglander

I haven't read the article yet, but I'd be interested to know how the anti-vax sentiment relates to suspicions about government medical policies, especially among African-Americans. Because of the Tuskegee project, a lot of less educated individuals are ready to believe all kinds of conspiracy theories. Some people still think AIDS was created in a lab specifically to kill black people, and that crack was part of a CIA project with similar goals. While I have yet to encounter any prominent black anti-vaxers, it seems like a similar mentality at work here.

Hard to tell, but public health researchers need to take a serious look at the demographics of the antivax movement. This might provide some clues for countering it.

191 VegasRick  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:10:55pm

re: #181 doppelganglander

I haven't read the article yet, but I'd be interested to know how the anti-vax sentiment relates to suspicions about government medical policies, especially among African-Americans. Because of the Tuskegee project, a lot of less educated individuals are ready to believe all kinds of conspiracy theories. Some people still think AIDS was created in a lab specifically to kill black people, and that crack was part of a CIA project with similar goals. While I have yet to encounter any prominent black anti-vaxers, it seems like a similar mentality at work here.

Rev, wright said so!
/

192 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:11:08pm

re: #155 albusteve

outcasts...
the Moon Pie Nazis are already on the loose...

I always knew there was something I didn't trust about that moon's face...

193 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:11:57pm

re: #178 Sand Panda

I've never tried that one but I'll keep in mind. Interesting problem

194 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:12:24pm

re: #180 Sharmuta

It was more civil then. Civility in politics is dead.

They still had loud bullying rabbles who tried to pretend they were the whole of a party. I remember canings on the Senate floor in the lead up to the civil war for instance...

195 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:12:36pm

For 8 years we decried the group-think of the left, but try to show independent thinking skills on the right these days, and suddenly we're supposed to have the group-think.

Weird.

196 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:13:13pm

re: #159 Charles

Good lord. I just checked out what the crowd at Free Republic had to say about Sen. John Cornyn's criticism of Limbaugh. "Over the top" doesn't even begin to describe it. The undiluted hatred they're spewing at Cornyn -- the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee! -- is almost unbelievable.

I guess this means that they're now going to consider Senator Cornyn a RINO as a result of repudiating Gingrich and Limbaugh.

197 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:13:16pm

re: #151 gtrs

this is

Somebody (i.e., the taxpayer) pays for anything "the gov" hands out "for free".

198 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:13:46pm

re: #183 quickjustice why? limbaugh's racism here is beyond the pale; kudos to sen. cornyn for sacking up and calling that bozo OUT

199 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:14:00pm

Levin calls Cheney a liar...sling it fat boy


[Link: www.cnn.com...]

200 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:14:49pm

re: #194 Thanos

They still had loud bullying rabbles who tried to pretend they were the whole of a party. I remember canings on the Senate floor in the lead up to the civil war for instance...

The history of American politics is more raucous than not.

I suggest a biography of Andrew Jackson or Sam Houston.

201 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:14:53pm

re: #194 Thanos

They still had loud bullying rabbles who tried to pretend they were the whole of a party. I remember canings on the Senate floor in the lead up to the civil war for instance...

times change...it was not broadcast world wide an hour later

202 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:15:05pm

re: #196 Gus 802

I guess this means that they're now going to consider Senator Cornyn a RINO as a result of repudiating Gingrich and Limbaugh.

RINO comments:

RINO girlyman Cornyn needs a primary challenger.

...

The RINOs are so spineless I wonder if Hillary is playing around with the FBI files again!

...

Ridicule may eventually work because this guy fancies himself a real man instead of a girly boy. My FAX to him earlier this morning pointed out his RINO status and flawed judgment, so I can only hope his office will be flooded with e-mails and FAXES so that they'll have to acknowledge how many Texans and non-Texans, too, find him to be a useless RINO.

203 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:15:06pm

re: #185 DEZes

LOL!

204 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:15:12pm

Limbaugh is a racist for Calling a person who made racist comments a racist?

Is this a line from Gilbert and Sullivan ?

205 researchok  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:15:21pm

re: #188 livefreeor die

I wonder how much this "Everybody's opinion has equal merit" way of thinking is the result of "Everybody gets a trophy" in schools and other settings over the past twenty years. A lot of people don't seem to consider the reasoning or, as you point out, training, research, and experience behind some opinions and how these can truly make some POVs more valuable than others when it comes to science and such. Instead of appreciating the scientific method, people consider experts to be "elitist". Thus, we get morons like Jenny McCarthy spouting off and getting forums for her idiocy.

Years ago, our school board approved building a "green" school based in large part on the statements of two parents who were substance abuse counselors. They told the board that solvents shouldn't be used in making the furniture or building the school because they could give off fumes and, based on their experience working with people who huffed solvents, they knew the negative impact the solvents would have on kids. Apparently, nobody challenged them on making the jump from their field to construction and they were treated as construction experts.

It's the idea of moral relativism at it's core, often referred to as 'credentialism'.

McCarthy and her ilk don't need medical or science degrees- their feelings and beliefs make them equals.

206 coquimbojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:15:31pm

re: #181 doppelganglander

I haven't read the article yet, but I'd be interested to know how the anti-vax sentiment relates to suspicions about government medical policies, especially among African-Americans. Because of the Tuskegee project, a lot of less educated individuals are ready to believe all kinds of conspiracy theories. Some people still think AIDS was created in a lab specifically to kill black people, and that crack was part of a CIA project with similar goals. While I have yet to encounter any prominent black anti-vaxers, it seems like a similar mentality at work here.

Are you implying that the government is NOT trying to beam microwaves into my head, and I should NOT be wearing a tinfoil hat? You. Are. Crazy.

207 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:15:58pm

re: #197 OldLineTexan
OK and they don't pay for the social "cost" when an innocent child DIES from neglect? do you have ANY point here at all?

208 coquimbojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:16:36pm

re: #199 albusteve

Levin calls Cheney a liar...sling it fat boy

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Bring it Carl! You will be shown to be a liar.

209 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:16:47pm

re: #204 Shug

Limbaugh is a racist for Calling a person who made racist comments a racist?

Is this a line from Gilbert and Sullivan ?

I wondered?

210 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:17:23pm

re: #165 shiplord kirel

I haven't been to Freeperland since I caught a major s-storm for failing to defend Francisco Franco sufficiently. I merely said he wasn't a "good guy" but I did give him credit for keeping the commies from taking over Spain. Franco has some serious admirers over there.

He's still dead.

/It's seared into my memory, sorry

211 coquimbojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:18:35pm

re: #204 Shug

Limbaugh is a racist for Calling a person who made racist comments a racist?

Is this a line from Gilbert and Sullivan ?

I have to agree with Limbaugh on this one. Pretty clear bigotry. I would like to see more of her descisions except for the cherry picked ones, but she is undeniably bigoted.

212 ConservativeAtheist  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:18:36pm

re: #188 livefreeor die

I wonder how much this "Everybody's opinion has equal merit" way of thinking is the result of "Everybody gets a trophy" in schools and other settings over the past twenty years. A lot of people don't seem to consider the reasoning or, as you point out, training, research, and experience behind some opinions and how these can truly make some POVs more valuable than others when it comes to science and such. Instead of appreciating the scientific method, people consider experts to be "elitist". Thus, we get morons like Jenny McCarthy spouting off and getting forums for her idiocy.

Somehow there also seems to be a lot of people who confuse fame with wisdom. For the life of me, I've never understood people who idolize Hollywood types -- when the majority of them seem to have utter trainwrecks for lives.

213 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:19:05pm

re: #204 Shug

Limbaugh is a racist for Calling a person who made racist comments a racist?

Is this a line from Gilbert and Sullivan ?

Who's on 1st?

214 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:19:07pm

re: #202 Charles

Sure enough there they are. Let's see. The American Conservative gives him a rating of 92.00 He states his opinions on these matters and suddenly he's cast as a RINO.

215 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:19:22pm

re: #204 Shug

Limbaugh is a racist for Calling a person who made racist comments a racist?

Is this a line from Gilbert and Sullivan ?

They have been trying to cast Limbaugh as a racist. What is it he said?

216 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:19:22pm

re: #173 katemaclaren

Yet, it was a bandwagon effect of Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring. We have to watch out for bandwagons.

Plant remote detonated mines and 66mm rockets along the vehicles path with interlaced heavy and medium machinegun positions and 88mm mortar support zeroed to the kill zones as well as possible lanes of retreat. Strike the first and last bandwagons at the beginning of the ambush. Sweep the area for prisoners with riflemen platoons, IFVs and UAVs.
//////

217 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:19:47pm

re: #207 gtrs

OK and they don't pay for the social "cost" when an innocent child DIES from neglect? do you have ANY point here at all?

Yes, are you that dense? Nothing's free. I don't oppose fluoridation or many other public health measures, but people who REALLY believe in free stuff are poisonous in a democratic republic.

218 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:19:48pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Sure enough there they are. Let's see. The American Conservative gives him a rating of 92.00 He states his opinions on these matters and suddenly he's cast as a RINO.

Group-think isn't for the left anymore.

219 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:19:57pm

re: #208 coquimbojoe yea; you just know DICK would never lie................

220 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:20:04pm

The MSM has done a deplorable job educating the pupblicn about this or any scientific issue. It is because the reporters are ignoramuses. Like the school teachers who take classes in education, news writers take classes in writing. It cannot get any more shallow.

221 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:20:23pm

the Racialization of America...everyone is a racist...
foreward, reverse and lateral
support or non support and guilt

222 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:20:24pm

re: #135 Sand Panda

Sometimes I feel that being able to recognise Python quotes is like being secretly awarded membership to a vast club of like-minded people.

Well that's the kind of Philistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. Actually, I managed to work this into a conversation the other day. It was most gratifying.

223 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:20:36pm

re: #193 BatGuano

I've never tried that one but I'll keep in mind. Interesting problem

Yeah - but with a username like BatGuano it's more likely you'd get an opening first...

How about a little competition? Any lizard who can successfully include that quote in casual conversation without being asked in a concerned voice whether work is very stressful at the moment, or whether they've suffered a recent head injury has the right to a free upding from every Python fan.

224 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:21:12pm

re: #219 gtrs

yea; you just know DICK would never lie................

Can you believe that game last night? I'm jacked about tonight

225 Throbert McGee  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:21:21pm

re: #125 Cathypop

OH MAN I loved Moon Pies! Are they still around?

I grew up calling them "Scooter Pies," rather than "Moon Pies."

226 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:21:33pm

re: #218 Sharmuta

Group-think isn't for the left anymore.

doc...I'm worried about my rating and I'm a nervous wreck..can you help?

227 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:21:43pm

re: #218 Sharmuta

Group-think isn't for the left anymore.

Independent thinkers need not apply. These people are looking for homogeneous ideology that fits within a very narrow view of the world.

228 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:21:54pm

re: #222 John Neverbend

Well that's the kind of Philistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. Actually, I managed to work this into a conversation the other day. It was most gratifying.

Damn - I should have refreshed before proposing a competition!

229 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:21:59pm

re: #225 Throbert McGee

I grew up calling them "Scooter Pies," rather than "Moon Pies."

Why may I ask were they called scooter pies?

230 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:22:27pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Sure enough there they are. Let's see. The American Conservative gives him a rating of 92.00 He states his opinions on these matters and suddenly he's cast as a RINO.

By some frootloops on a froot blog.

I have stated my opinion on Cornyn's actions already (as well as Steele's). I believe it is orchestrated and purposeful. A show for the Dems and the thoughtless. Cornyn is a smart guy, and has been a good Senator if too quiet in the past for my tastes. No way is he providing ammo to the Dems when Hutchison is about to leave her seat open and go run for Gov against Perry.

I don't think he voted for Obama, either.

231 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:22:47pm

re: #216 Idle Drifter

Plant remote detonated mines and 66mm rockets along the vehicles path with interlaced heavy and medium machinegun positions and 88mm mortar support zeroed to the kill zones as well as possible lanes of retreat. Strike the first and last bandwagons at the beginning of the ambush. Sweep the area for prisoners with riflemen platoons, IFVs and UAVs.
//////

Wow. That'll do it. Let's git 'er done!

232 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:22:58pm

re: #229 DEZes

Why may I ask were they called scooter pies?

If you eat too many of them, you end up in one of those motorised scooters for the horribly obese.
/

233 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:23:06pm

re: #227 Gus 802

Independent thinkers need not apply. These people are looking for homogeneous ideology that fits within a very narrow view of the world.

There's always the Constitution party. They should check it out.

234 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:23:40pm

re: #217 OldLineTexan what's poisonous in our society is bringing up ridiculous arguments like yours who have NOTHING to do with the POINT; the point here is, CHILDREN are dying in OUR country when we can STOP it; do you favor us letting them die?

235 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:23:50pm

re: #228 Sand Panda

Damn - I should have refreshed before proposing a competition!

That was easy. Getting the "stream of bat's piss" into a conversation will be well nigh impossible, I suspect. Unless, however, I happen to be in conversation with the Prince of Wales.

236 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:23:51pm

re: #233 Sharmuta

There's always the Constitution party. They should check it out.

While they're at it they might want to pick up a book by Gary North. ;)

237 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:23:56pm

re: #208 coquimbojoe

Bring it Carl! You will be shown to be a liar.

No one takes on Darth Cheney without being scarred by the experience!

238 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:23:57pm

re: #232 Sand Panda

If you eat too many of them, you end up in one of those motorised scooters for the horribly obese.
/

Nah. you end up scooting the bathroom as fast as you can go or slide in on the slime byproduct. eww.

239 coquimbojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:24:43pm

re: #219 gtrs

yea; you just know DICK would never lie................

I trust him much more than I do Levin. Levin still has a job to protect. Cheney doesn't. If Cheney is right, the Democrats look very bad. If Cheney is wrong, release the memos and put this issue to rest forever.

BTW, the caps are juvenile at best.

240 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:24:57pm

re: #238 katemaclaren

Nah. you end up scooting the bathroom as fast as you can go or slide in on the slime byproduct. eww.

TMI.

241 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:25:33pm

re: #224 HoosierHoops
me too; still think the magic can win tomorrow; le bron was looking so tired at the end, i was afraid he was having a coronary

242 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:25:56pm

re: #240 DEZes

TMI.

Does TMI mean "too much information"? Just a guess! ;-)

243 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:26:24pm

re: #234 gtrs

what's poisonous in our society is bringing up ridiculous arguments like yours who have NOTHING to do with the POINT; the point here is, CHILDREN are dying in OUR country when we can STOP it; do you favor us letting them die?

lighten up

244 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:26:31pm

re: #242 katemaclaren

Does TMI mean "too much information"? Just a guess! ;-)

exactly. ;)

245 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:26:39pm

re: #237 Truck Monkey

is that before obi wan cut him to shreds?.....................oh; i forgot, FLESH WOUND.........................

246 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:26:40pm

re: #230 OldLineTexan

By some frootloops on a froot blog.

I have stated my opinion on Cornyn's actions already (as well as Steele's). I believe it is orchestrated and purposeful. A show for the Dems and the thoughtless. Cornyn is a smart guy, and has been a good Senator if too quiet in the past for my tastes. No way is he providing ammo to the Dems when Hutchison is about to leave her seat open and go run for Gov against Perry.

I don't think he voted for Obama, either.

True. I'm pretty sure Texans have a far different opinion than these internet knee jerkers.

247 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:26:59pm

re: #243 albusteve
sorry

248 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:27:22pm

re: #238 katemaclaren

Nah. you end up scooting the bathroom as fast as you can go or slide in on the slime byproduct. eww.


Ha! I can't decide to down-ding you or up-ding you for that comment. ;-)

249 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:27:25pm

re: #234 gtrs

what's poisonous in our society is bringing up ridiculous arguments like yours who have NOTHING to do with the POINT; the point here is, CHILDREN are dying in OUR country when we can STOP it; do you favor us letting them die?

Are you clinically insane, or just an amateur?

250 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:27:42pm

re: #244 DEZes

LOL! YAAC! (you are absolutely correct!--making up my own, now!)

251 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:27:48pm

All the talk about RINOS ... just wondering ... are there any DINOS? .... I am serious ... anyone have any names on that? ...

252 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:28:19pm

re: #246 Gus 802

True. I'm pretty sure Texans have a far different opinion than these internet knee jerkers.

We have a large share of frootloops. King Frootloop (RP!) is from here. But it's a big state.

253 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:28:35pm

re: #231 katemaclaren

Wow. That'll do it. Let's git 'er done!

There was a book about Mass Hysteria and Group Think. I'm trying to recall the name of the book as well as the author so I can place an order with B&N.

254 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:28:43pm

re: #223 Sand Panda

I reject the premise. It is not possible under the conditions you suggest. :)

255 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:28:59pm

re: #251 JacksonTn

All the talk about RINOS ... just wondering ... are there any DINOS? .... I am serious ... anyone have any names on that? ...

Heath Shuller?

256 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:29:13pm

re: #251 JacksonTn

All the talk about RINOS ... just wondering ... are there any DINOS? .... I am serious ... anyone have any names on that? ...

You are so effing cool.

I NEVER thought of that.

The answer is no, they all died and become oil and/or fossils. About 6,000 years ago, IIRC.

////please no rocks, I'm JOKING

257 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:29:26pm

re: #248 Sand Panda

Ha! I can't decide to down-ding you or up-ding you for that comment. ;-)

Ahhhh. This was spoken from true experience. True, I say. Those Scooter pies don't get along with the bacteria in my basement!

258 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:29:40pm

re: #250 katemaclaren

LOL! YAAC! (you are absolutely correct!--making up my own, now!)

;)

259 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:29:41pm

re: #206 coquimbojoe

Are you implying that the government is NOT trying to beam microwaves into my head, and I should NOT be wearing a tinfoil hat? You. Are. Crazy.

No, sweetie, it's just you. ;)

260 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:29:49pm

re: #256 OldLineTexan

You are so effing cool.

I NEVER thought of that.

The answer is no, they all died and become oil and/or fossils. About 6,000 years ago, IIRC.

////please no rocks, I'm JOKING

They died as the earth was created?

////

261 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:30:00pm

re: #253 Idle Drifter

I own the book and can't think of it either! I bought it about a year ago, but haven't had time to read it!

262 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:30:07pm

I must leave now. bbl

263 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:30:12pm

Starting to amuse myself with thoughts of "what if 0bama had nominated Harriet Meyers?"

264 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:30:13pm

re: #249 OldLineTexan not clinically.........

265 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:30:34pm

re: #252 OldLineTexan

We have a large share of frootloops. King Frootloop (RP!) is from here. But it's a big state.

Nor Laup!

Although when I saw RP I thought Rick Perry. He doesn't seem to qualify as a fruitloop. Although he does display some tendencies like Don McLeroy.

266 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:30:38pm

re: #263 Sharmuta

Starting to amuse myself with thoughts of "what if 0bama had nominated Harriet Meyers?"

She'd still be unqualified.

267 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:30:50pm

re: #206 coquimbojoe

Are you implying that the government is NOT trying to beam microwaves into my head, and I should NOT be wearing a tinfoil hat? You. Are. Crazy.

You have to use cast lead these days, even Superman cant see through that.

268 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:11pm

re: #193 BatGuano

I've never tried that one but I'll keep in mind. Interesting problem

Now look Batguano, if that really is your name....I have found that it's sometimes more interesting to get a Strangelove quotation into the conversation. It's usually the one about its being "not just physical. I deeply respect you as a human being." Ah, they don't make films like that any more.

269 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:24pm

re: #235 John Neverbend

That was easy. Getting the "stream of bat's piss" into a conversation will be well nigh impossible, I suspect. Unless, however, I happen to be in conversation with the Prince of Wales.

What wouldn't I give for such a golden opportunity...

270 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:42pm

re: #253 Idle Drifter

There was a book about Mass Hysteria and Group Think. I'm trying to recall the name of the book as well as the author so I can place an order with B&N.

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. I recommend it highly.

271 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:51pm

re: #241 gtrs

me too; still think the magic can win tomorrow; le bron was looking so tired at the end, i was afraid he was having a coronary

Great match ups! I think only 8 teams in NBA history have come back from 3-1.
The Cav's are toast..Hurrah for Team play..And tough studs that don't care about super stars..
Tonight is fun for me..Since I was a little kid I've hated the Lakers...If they lose tonight I'll be walking on sunshine!
Of course..I've posted here that if the Lakers lose..Jack Nickelson will be sitting at his breakfast table in the morning drinking straight Vodka..Staring off into the distance..
It doesn't get any better for the Hoopster...Except to win the lotto..:)

272 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:52pm

re: #261 katemaclaren

I own the book and can't think of it either! I bought it about a year ago, but haven't had time to read it!

MacKay?

273 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:58pm

re: #251 JacksonTn

All the talk about RINOS ... just wondering ... are there any DINOS? .... I am serious ... anyone have any names on that? ...

Al Gore is almost as big as one.

274 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:32:05pm

re: #266 Truck Monkey

She'd still be unqualified.

But were we RINOs for criticizing a republican back then?

275 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:32:15pm

re: #260 Truck Monkey

They died as the earth was created?

////

It's like OR sez, the YEC God is like a mean kid with an antfarm and a magnifying glass!

/

276 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:32:34pm

re: #257 katemaclaren

Ahhhh. This was spoken from true experience. True, I say. Those Scooter pies don't get along with the bacteria in my basement!

In that case have a sympathy upding from me.

277 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:33:11pm

re: #274 Sharmuta

But were we RINOs for criticizing a republican back then?

Good question. I don't know. Let's ask Avanti.

278 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:33:18pm

re: #275 OldLineTexan

It's like OR sez, the YEC God is like a mean kid with an antfarm and a magnifying glass!

/

OLT ... Henry's Ant Farms are the best gifts for kids ...

279 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:33:29pm

re: #264 gtrs

not clinically.........

ROTFLMAO.

280 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:33:47pm

re: #273 screaming_eagle

Al Gore is almost as big as one.

Al Gore had to stop going to the beach, Greenpeace kept shoving him back in the water.

281 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:02pm

re: #278 JacksonTn

OLT ... Henry's Ant Farms are the best gifts for kids ...

When I was a kid, we had to play with the ants in the yard. And we LIKED it, we LOVED it!

/

282 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:17pm

re: #253 Idle Drifter

There was a book about Mass Hysteria and Group Think. I'm trying to recall the name of the book as well as the author so I can place an order with B&N.

The definitive classic on that subject is Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds, written in the 1840s by Charles McKay.
It covered a wide variety of examples, including witchcraft hysteria, financial bubbles, popular admiration of criminals, dueling and so on. It probably saved me from getting caught in the dot.com bubble among many other things.

283 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:19pm

Move over Ron Paul.....
Adam Kokesh to STORM CAPITOL HILL!

He looks like an evil wizard.

284 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:20pm

re: #276 Sand Panda

In that case have a sympathy upding from me.

mmmmm-smack-mmmm. Thanks!

285 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:30pm

re: #264 gtrs

not clinically.........

You now have Karma. ;)

286 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:31pm

re: #268 John Neverbend

How about this:On thread

Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.

287 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:34pm

re: #280 DEZes

Al Gore had to stop going to the beach, Greenpeace kept shoving him back in the water.

How many polar bears could he save personally? They could float on him when they got tired.

288 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:40pm

re: #271 HoosierHoops

Great match ups! I think only 8 teams in NBA history have come back from 3-1.
The Cav's are toast..Hurrah for Team play..And tough studs that don't care about super stars..
Tonight is fun for me..Since I was a little kid I've hated the Lakers...If they lose tonight I'll be walking on sunshine!
Of course..I've posted here that if the Lakers lose..Jack Nickelson will be sitting at his breakfast table in the morning drinking straight Vodka..Staring off into the distance..
It doesn't get any better for the Hoopster...Except to win the lotto..:)

agreed...LaBron will burn himself out at this pace...defense in the 4th qtr and all that...Dennis Rodman was a superstar in that regard before anybody ever heard of him

289 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:34:46pm

re: #280 DEZes

Al Gore had to stop going to the beach, Greenpeace kept shoving him back in the water.

Why do you think FatAlGore never jets up to check in on the innuets?

290 IslandLibertarian  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:35:20pm

First "he" causes world unrest by behind the scene manipulation of Palestinians against Israelis.........then "he" destabilizes the world economy with the unwitting help of Chris Dodd and Barney Frank..........then he brings a socialist into the U.S. presidency by secretly funding Sorros and ACORN..........then "he" threatens world health by spreading rumors that vaccinations cause all kinds of horrible side effects..........Then "he" holds the planet earth ransom for $1 million dollars!

/ I blame Dr. Evil, 'cause the truth is just too hard to believe.

291 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:35:29pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Move over Ron Paul.....
Adam Kokesh to STORM CAPITOL HILL!

He looks like an evil wizard.

Anything that resembles "Koresh" that closely used with "storm" gives me the willies.

292 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:35:34pm

re: #281 OldLineTexan

When I was a kid, we had to play with the ants in the yard. And we LIKED it, we LOVED it!

/

This is a very Monty Pythonesque moment.
Ants? Fortunate. We were so poor we had to play with worms.

293 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:35:34pm

re: #281 OldLineTexan

When I was a kid, we had to play with the ants in the yard. And we LIKED it, we LOVED it!

/

Ant's weren't allowed in my Planned Urban Development!

294 Throbert McGee  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:35:49pm

re: #225 Throbert McGee

I grew up calling them "Scooter Pies," rather than "Moon Pies."

A little Googling leads me to believe that "Scooter Pie" may have been the brand that had some sort of contractual relationship with AAFES (American Armed Forces Exchange Service), the outfit that runs the stores used by American military personnel and their families. I spent my K-8 school years overseas, and thus was accustomed to getting foodstuffs at the "commissary," rather than at a Safeway or Giant, and my clothes and toiletries and toys came from the "PX," rather than from Sears or K-Mart or whatever. (And when my dad needed to buy booze for a cocktail party, he went to the "Class VI store.")

295 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:35:52pm

re: #287 OldLineTexan

How many polar bears could he save personally? They could float on him when they got tired.

ROFL

296 Catttt  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:36:16pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: Guess the ethnicity before clicking the link.....


'This has been my dream,' spelling bee winner says

Ok, I got the ethnicity wrong, but I guessed Olathe, Kansas! /:D

297 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:36:19pm

good evening all.

298 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:36:51pm

re: #239 coquimbojoe since DICK has not been right in about 35 years(WMD and such), i'll stick with carl................

299 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:37:12pm

re: #287 OldLineTexan

How many polar bears could he save personally? They could float on him when they got tired.

None, Gore would eat them.

300 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:37:13pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Move over Ron Paul.....
Adam Kokesh to STORM CAPITOL HILL!


[Video]

He looks like an evil wizard.

He has the look of a cult leader.

301 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:37:41pm

re: #292 katemaclaren

This is a very Monty Pythonesque moment.
Ants? Fortunate. We were so poor we had to play with worms.

You had WORMS? We would have killed for worms! Dad used to go fishing, and he used us as bait.

302 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:37:50pm

re: #280 DEZes

Al Gore had to stop going to the beach, Greenpeace kept shoving him back in the water.

THAT gave me the biggest laugh I've had in a week!

303 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:37:53pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

He's scarin' the hell out of me.

304 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:37:58pm

re: #270 doppelganglander

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. I recommend it highly.

Thank you, doppelganglander. I'll put in an order for a copy.

305 Catttt  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:38:10pm

OT

Don't worry if you don't want everything to taste like bacon......

Initial post: May 29, 2009 10:06 AM PDT
Amazon.com Gold Box Team says:
It is hard not to think about bacon today, but we wanted to let you know that we have a full day of deals on Monday, June 1 to help you upgrade your computer. If you need a new hard drive, memory, video card, or power supply, then make sure to come back to the Gold Box on Monday.

306 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:38:29pm

re: #291 OldLineTexan

Yeah, When I first saw the name I had to check to see if there was any relation. None that I'm aware of.

307 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:38:44pm

re: #298 gtrs

since DICK has not been right in about 35 years(WMD and such), i'll stick with carl................

you drank the WMD koolaid....go review the record and purge yourself

308 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:39:45pm

re: #306 Killgore Trout

Yeah, When I first saw the name I had to check to see if there was any relation. None that I'm aware of.

Nah ... Kokesh ... Koresh.

Plus, "Koresh" was an assumed name (from Cyrus the Great).

309 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:40:25pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Adam Kokesh:

Kokesh enrolled in graduate studies in political management at George Washington University.[1] In October 2007, Kokesh, along with six other students, created controversy by putting up political posters across the university campus. The posters featured a picture of a stereotypical Arab man and the headline "Hate Muslims? So do we!", with illustrative captions explaining that the typical Muslim is equipped with a venom-spouting mouth, laser-shooting eyes, and hidden AK-47:s, among other parodical features.

Lovely fellow.

310 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:40:40pm

re: #304 Idle Drifter

Thank you, doppelganglander. I'll put in an order for a copy.

That's one of the jokes I use about my ex-wife, Jabba the Slutt! Also that she is in danger of being harpooned by a passing Japanese ship.

311 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:40:53pm

re: #303 Sharmuta

He might be somebody to watch. Young, charismatic, batshit insane. He might be a big hit. I have no idea if he's likely to win a seat. Here's another one of his videos....
The Real GOP - Featuring Adam Kokesh

Not sure if the Tea Party crowd is quite ready for him but they're getting close.

312 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:41:00pm

re: #299 DEZes

None, Gore would eate them.

313 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:41:10pm

re: #309 Sharmuta

Yeesh!

314 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:41:14pm

re: #9 Charles

Now I'm getting hate mail from idiots who say I'm "shilling for Hussein Obama" by linking to the Israel Project's story on his statement about Palestinian incitement.

Man, the craziness is everywhere.

It's the lack of sunspots in conjunction with the moon pie discussion here.

315 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:41:35pm

re: #311 Killgore Trout

I suspect he has a following at Stormfront.

316 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:42:05pm

re: #310 shiplord kirel

That's one of the jokes I use about my ex-wife, Jabba the Slutt! Also that she is in danger of being harpooned by a passing Japanese ship.

Now how did I do that? Never mind, the response was for #280 DEZes

Al Gore had to stop going to the beach, Greenpeace kept shoving him back in the water.

317 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:42:37pm

re: #313 Killgore Trout

There's more:

They stated that their intent was to spread awareness through satire, regarding what they considered to be the racist intentions of the above-mentioned website's "Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week" organized by a conservative student organization and featuring David Horowitz, which was to begin on October 22.

318 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:43:54pm

re: #315 Sharmuta

I suspect he has a following at Stormfront.

Sure enough, 693 hits.

319 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:44:32pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

There's more:

Well, that sounds leftist-y. Is he conflicted?

320 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:44:33pm

re: #311 Killgore Trout

He might be somebody to watch. Young, charismatic, batshit insane. He might be a big hit. I have no idea if he's likely to win a seat. Here's another one of his videos....
The Real GOP - Featuring Adam Kokesh


[Video]

Not sure if the Tea Party crowd is quite ready for him but they're getting close.

There's those gold coins again.

321 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:45:35pm

re: #301 OldLineTexan

You had WORMS? We would have killed for worms! Dad used to go fishing, and he used us as bait.

Bait! Fortunate! we were...uh oh...no where to go from here! Ya got me!

322 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:45:38pm

re: #315 Sharmuta

Of course.

323 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:46:01pm

re: #301 OldLineTexan

You had WORMS? We would have killed for worms! Dad used to go fishing, and he used us as bait.

Your dad went FISHING?! We used to have to lick the dirt off of dead rats which we found in the sewer.

324 abolitionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:46:22pm

re: #253 Idle Drifter

There was a book about Mass Hysteria and Group Think. I'm trying to recall the name of the book as well as the author so I can place an order with B&N.

? The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surowiecki, published in 2004

325 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:46:58pm

re: #304 Idle Drifter

Thank you, doppelganglander. I'll put in an order for a copy.

Yep. MacKay. That's the one I have.

326 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:47:07pm

re: #321 katemaclaren

Bait! Fortunate! we were...uh oh...no where to go from here! Ya got me!

You could say:

"Bait? We would have KILLED to be used as bait. Dad used to make us dive underwater and wrestle the fish with our bare hands! Then he would beat us and make us wear pink tutus!

/

327 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:47:12pm

re: #310 shiplord kirel

That's one of the jokes I use about my ex-wife, Jabba the Slutt! Also that she is in danger of being harpooned by a passing Japanese ship.

Captain, there be whales here.
*Mr. Scott.*re: #312 screaming_eagle

Al Gore fell into an alligator pit last week, it was horrible.
He ate five of them before the zoo keepers could pull him out.

328 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:47:19pm

re: #323 Sand Panda

Your dad went FISHING?! We used to have to lick the dirt off of dead rats which we found in the sewer.

SP ... tasty ...

329 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:47:29pm

re: #323 Sand Panda

Your dad went FISHING?! We used to have to lick the dirt off of dead rats which we found in the sewer.

Must have been nice to have a sewer.

330 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:47:40pm

re: #323 Sand Panda

White flag here! (waving)

331 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:48:06pm

More on Kokesh at facebook.

I don't think he quite gets Goldwater.

332 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:48:12pm

I had a brain fart.

333 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:48:19pm

re: #326 OldLineTexan

You could say:

"Bait? We would have KILLED to be used as bait. Dad used to make us dive underwater and wrestle the fish with our bare hands! Then he would beat us and make us wear pink tutus!

/

Waving pink tutu!

334 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:48:34pm

re: #329 screaming_eagle

Must have been nice to have a sewer.

YOU HAD A SEWER? We had to sneak into the neighbors' yards disguised as DOGS!

335 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:48:34pm

re: #329 screaming_eagle

Must have been nice to have a sewer.

se ... sewer ... what was that ... we had slop jars ...

336 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:48:40pm

re: #310 shiplord kirel

That's one of the jokes I use about my ex-wife, Jabba the Slutt! Also that she is in danger of being harpooned by a passing Japanese ship.

I've been watching Whale Wars on Animal Planet just for the sheer comedy of the idiots on the "Steve Irwin" Personally I think the crew should be arrested and their ship and all onboard equipment confiscated and sold at auction.

337 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:48:43pm

re: #332 DEZes

I had a brain fart.

Does it have any...er--fragrance?

338 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:49:19pm

re: #335 JacksonTn

se ... sewer ... what was that ... we had slop jars ...

Oh geeez. I remember those, our neighbors had them. We had....

339 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:49:36pm

re: #328 JacksonTn

SP ... tasty ...

The day that I found a dead tadpole in a ditch shines out in my memory like a shaft of gold when all around it is dark.

340 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:49:44pm

re: #334 OldLineTexan

YOU HAD A SEWER? We had to sneak into the neighbors' yards disguised as DOGS!

Thats why I saw you barking at my lawn sprinkler.

341 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:49:47pm

...a Johnny with a half moon pie cut out of the door.

342 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:49:52pm

re: #334 OldLineTexan

YOU HAD A SEWER? We had to sneak into the neighbors' yards disguised as DOGS!

Wouldn't work with our neighbors, cuz we ate their dogs.

343 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:50:03pm

I can't stop thinking, when I read some of this, that it reads like the following:

"She walked through the village, and she looked at my son, and that night, he fell sick. You should have heard him scream, it made my blood run cold."

"Yes, and then just last week, she walked past our house, and looked at the roof [having learned her lesson about looking at members of the family], and then the thatch caught fire two days later."

"That's it, she's a witch."

Mankind made no progress until we abandoned correlation for causality.

344 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:50:06pm

re: #331 Sharmuta

More on Kokesh at facebook.

I don't think he quite gets Goldwater.

More cult leader imagery.

345 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:50:13pm

re: #336 Idle Drifter

I've been watching Whale Wars on Animal Planet just for the sheer comedy of the idiots on the "Steve Irwin" Personally I think the crew should be arrested and their ship and all onboard equipment confiscated and sold at auction.

It's a reality show for terrorists/vigilantes. As much as I think "whale research" is BUNK, these people are dangerous.

346 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:50:45pm

re: #331 Sharmuta

More on Kokesh at facebook.

I don't think he quite gets Goldwater.

Facebook also lists The Young Americans for Liberty.

347 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:50:48pm

re: #340 DEZes

Thats why I saw you barking at my lawn sprinkler.

It frightens me!

/

348 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:51:39pm

re: #342 screaming_eagle

Wouldn't work with our neighbors, cuz we ate their dogs.

"Maybe babies ate your dingo" just doesn't have the same ring.

349 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:51:54pm

re: #342 screaming_eagle

Wouldn't work with our neighbors, cuz we ate their dogs.

...and only left the fleas for us!

350 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:51:55pm

re: #347 OldLineTexan

It frightens me!

/

Well, I can understand that.
Now quit chasing my car.

351 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:51:59pm

re: #334 OldLineTexan

YOU HAD A SEWER? We had to sneak into the neighbors' yards disguised as DOGS!

Your neighbours had a SEWER?! Well la di dah; our neighbours had a communal cesspit full of unusually intelligent alligators...

352 Jim in Virginia  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:52:38pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Move over Ron Paul.....
Adam Kokesh to STORM CAPITOL HILL!



He looks like an evil wizard.


WTF is The Freedom Movement? And what is the weird blue New World Ordure globe in the background?
There's something very freaky abut a campaign video that doesn't mention where the dude is running.

353 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:52:52pm

re: #307 albusteve you mean the "record" from the REPUBLICAN state dept of george w that said they were not found because they never existed; or was that report from the REPUBLICAN defense dept? both agency's came to the SAME conclusion, just the folks at state admitted it first........

354 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:53:23pm

re: #324 abolitionist

There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men
- Henry David Thoreau

355 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:53:26pm

Not really off topic/hope they find a vaccine...
[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

356 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:53:52pm

re: #351 Sand Panda

Your neighbours had a SEWER?! Well la di dah; our neighbours had a communal cesspit full of unusually intelligent alligators...

You were not my neighbor!

357 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:53:59pm

Don't make me stop this car ...

358 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:54:10pm

re: #354 Killgore Trout

There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men
- Henry David Thoreau

Oh, so true.

359 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:54:44pm

re: #353 gtrs

you mean the "record" from the REPUBLICAN state dept of george w that said they were not found because they never existed; or was that report from the REPUBLICAN defense dept? both agency's came to the SAME conclusion, just the folks at state admitted it first........

check out the libs record from 95-2000...Cheney was not dishonest

360 screaming_eagle  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:54:45pm

re: #357 JacksonTn

Don't make me stop this car ...

Are we there yet?

361 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:55:21pm

re: #357 JacksonTn

Don't make me stop this car ...

I gotta go potty.

362 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:55:39pm

re: #360 screaming_eagle

Are we there yet?

No, and next time go pee when I tell you to ... now go over there in the bushes ... no! no one will see you ...

363 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:55:53pm

re: #357 JacksonTn

Don't make me stop this car ...

If you do, I'll catch it.

/then what?

364 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:56:17pm

re: #320 Gus 802
the tea-baggers will love that guy; they really loved buchanan and tancredo's lackey also; BUT, after he beat the hell out of the black lady, they decided to keep him out of site for a little...........prison should do the trick............

365 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:56:30pm

re: #336 Idle Drifter

I've been watching Whale Wars on Animal Planet just for the sheer comedy of the idiots on the "Steve Irwin" Personally I think the crew should be arrested and their ship and all onboard equipment confiscated and sold at auction.

The ringleader of the Sea Shepherd pirates, Paul Watson, is among the usual suspects denouncing Canadian Governor General Michaelle Jean after Jean showed her support for seal hunters by personally gutting a seal and eating its heart raw.

"I'm extremely embarrassed to be associated with a governor general of my country eating raw seal meat in that manner. It's barbaric," said Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. "I wonder what the Queen would think about that."

Jean called the seal meal "delicious" and defended the Inuit hunt as a centuries-old tradition crucial to the livelihood of northern communities.

A woman after my own heart.......

366 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:56:38pm

re: #363 OldLineTexan

If you do, I'll catch it.

/then what?

re: #361 Truck Monkey

I gotta go potty.

TM ... see # 360 ...

367 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:56:40pm

re: #353 gtrs

you mean the "record" from the REPUBLICAN state dept of george w that said they were not found because they never existed; or was that report from the REPUBLICAN defense dept? both agency's came to the SAME conclusion, just the folks at state admitted it first........

We did not invade Iraq solely for the WMD issue. Put your strawman away.

368 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:57:03pm

re: #351 Sand Panda

Your neighbours had a SEWER?! Well la di dah; our neighbours had a communal cesspit full of unusually intelligent alligators...

Keep Al gore away from that pit.

369 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:57:15pm

Anything interesting happen this afternoon or this evening? Anyone get the stick? I am sitting here doing paper work-which I detest- and watching the Yankee game. No score.

370 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:57:25pm

re: #358 katemaclaren

I think that's why populism stinks.

371 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:57:46pm

re: #345 OldLineTexan

It's a reality show for terrorists/vigilantes. As much as I think "whale research" is BUNK, these people are dangerous.

I agree with you on the bunk whale research. There are better ways to stop illegal whaling than ramming ships and throwing crap aboard.

372 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:57:49pm

re: #363 OldLineTexan

If you do, I'll catch it.

/then what?

Mom ... he hit me ....

/I was the youngest I always got the hump to sit on ...

373 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:58:01pm

re: #368 DEZes

Keep Al gore away from that pit.

teh poor gaterz nevah had a chans ... algore eated them liek teh sea kittehs ...

374 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:58:07pm

re: #369 Nevergiveup

Anything interesting happen this afternoon or this evening? Anyone get the stick? I am sitting here doing paper work-which I detest- and watching the Yankee game. No score.

That's funny. I detest the Yankees. ;)
//

375 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:58:23pm

re: #353 gtrs

Well you had Karma.

376 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:58:41pm

re: #373 OldLineTexan

teh poor gaterz nevah had a chans ... algore eated them liek teh sea kittehs ...

LMAO!

377 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:58:58pm

re: #108 Charles

Somehow I get the distinct feeling that a poll of the anti-vaxers would reveal far more votes for Obama than for Bush in the last election...CA and OR are the hotbeds of the no-vaccination movement in the US.

378 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:59:00pm

For all you gamblers ...The Hoopster picks Denver tonight..I'm sure of it..
Full disclosure.. I am always wrong...Charles has extensive records here..So bet the farm on LA..You can't possibly go wrong..
*wink*
/

379 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:59:17pm

re: #370 Killgore Trout

Yes sirree! I'm in complete accord.

380 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:59:40pm

re: #362 JacksonTn

No, and next time go pee when I tell you to ... now go over there in the bushes ... no! no one will see you ...

Watch out for the alligators...they are unusually intelligent.

381 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:59:48pm

re: #372 JacksonTn

Mom ... he hit me ....

/I was the youngest I always got the hump to sit on ...

The hump was the dividing line in my car. If any part of my brothers body strayed over that Chevy Maginot line all hell would break loose. Does anyone do car trips anymore?

382 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:59:54pm

Government sources said the administration has held up Israel’s request for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. [...]

Administration sources said the White House has drafted measures that could prevent Israel and other non-NATO allies from procuring U.S. fighter-jets, including the F-35. They said the administration would require that Israel obtain special permission from the Defense Department and State Department to acquire the Joint Strike Fighter. The administration has also been resisting Israeli requests for technical data on the new F-15SE fighter-jet. [...]

The sources said the State Department has been delaying Israeli requests for pre-export licenses required for an examination of the new generation F-15.

The sources said the administration has not approved the new F-15 for the Foreign Military Sales program. They said this could prevent Israel from using U.S. military aid to purchase the aircraft from Boeing. “This is a legal issue,” a source said. “The F-15SE might not qualify for FMS.”

[Link: hashmonean.com...]

Anybody want to comment?

383 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:16pm

Is "Populism" where Obama convinces some clueless person that he will fill her gas tank and pay her mortgage?

/

384 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:19pm

re: #369 Nevergiveup

Harrumph. You are a damned Yankees fan?!?!?!

Take this!

385 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:27pm

re: #374 Truck Monkey

That's funny. I detest the Yankees. ;)
//

Well they just scored. Want to do my paper work?

386 Achilles Tang  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:40pm

As said in a recent thread, when my kids went to school I clearly remember having to produce proof of their vaccinations and some of them were complicated because they had been done outside the USA.

I never questioned the requirement then, but I still wonder how or when that was discontinued?

My solution is simply to not allow the unvaccinated into schools, or school events, as was applied to my children.

Let them be educated at home, or in non vaccination schools and we will see how long the fad lasts.

387 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:48pm

re: #336 Idle Drifter

I've been watching Whale Wars on Animal Planet just for the sheer comedy of the idiots on the "Steve Irwin" Personally I think the crew should be arrested and their ship and all onboard equipment confiscated and sold at auction.

I haven't seen the show (and what a disgrace to use the name), but I see people all concerned, and thought they were worried about people on a ship that went down, then realized they're so concerned over the whales that they'll risk their own lives.
I do think that whaling, except for the Inuit and others who live off the meat as part of their culture, shouldn't be done, but I also think the French had the right idea when they sunk Greenpeace's ship.
Have to go feed the dogs

388 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:58pm

re: #381 Truck Monkey

The hump was the dividing line in my car. If any part of my brothers body strayed over that Chevy Maginot line all hell would break loose. Does anyone do car trips anymore?

Yes, and my poor daughter has to sit on in the middle because if she doesn't, within ten minutes we have pandemonium.

Sound familiar?

389 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:58pm

re: #381 Truck Monkey

The hump was the dividing line in my car. If any part of my brothers body strayed over that Chevy Maginot line all hell would break loose. Does anyone do car trips anymore?

"Chevy Maginot Line" needs to be added to Urban Dictionary.

390 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:59pm

re: #381 Truck Monkey

The hump was the dividing line in my car. If any part of my brothers body strayed over that Chevy Maginot line all hell would break loose. Does anyone do car trips anymore?

I rented a 15-passenger van and drove all seven of us from Houston to Palmdale, CA a few years ago.

391 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:01:26pm

re: #384 NY Nana

Harrumph. You are a damned Yankees fan?!?!?!

Take this!


[Video]

I didn't know he was still alive?
/

392 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:01:27pm

re: #381 Truck Monkey

The hump was the dividing line in my car. If any part of my brothers body strayed over that Chevy Maginot line all hell would break loose. Does anyone do car trips anymore?

Oh geez. I remember the hump. Wow. You think you have left all of that behind in the race to the top--but sure enough, rosebud, haunting memories come sliding back into your life.

393 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:01:38pm

re: #364 gtrs

the tea-baggers will love that guy; they really loved buchanan and tancredo's lackey also; BUT, after he beat the hell out of the black lady, they decided to keep him out of site for a little...........prison should do the trick............

Adam Kokesh + Teaparty search.

23,900 hits.

394 Jim in Virginia  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:01:40pm

Adam Kokesh.
He's a "Revolutionary patriot."

It is time once again to draw the line between patriots and loyalists.


He has an exploratory committee to run for Congress from New Mexico's third district.
If this is the future of the Republican party, then I'm with the Whigs.

395 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:01:52pm

re: #381 Truck Monkey

The hump was the dividing line in my car. If any part of my brothers body strayed over that Chevy Maginot line all hell would break loose. Does anyone do car trips anymore?

TM ... no, I don't think they do ... we had one of those long long Ford Wagon with the wood-like stuff on the sides ... in the far back seat your skin would melt into the seat from the sun ... NO COMPLAINING ... you were sandwiched in with the ice chest full of koolaid and bologna and white bread ... six kids ... the horror ...

396 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:01pm

re: #310 shiplord kirel

Hey, remember, ........you married her....

397 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:08pm

re: #385 Nevergiveup

Well they just scored. Want to do my paper work?

What would be involved? Do you want to watch 3 kids?

398 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:14pm

Go Lakers!

399 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:23pm

re: #386 Naso Tang

As said in a recent thread, when my kids went to school I clearly remember having to produce proof of their vaccinations and some of them were complicated because they had been done outside the USA.

I never questioned the requirement then, but I still wonder how or when that was discontinued?

My solution is simply to not allow the unvaccinated into schools, or school events, as was applied to my children.

Let them be educated at home, or in non vaccination schools and we will see how long the fad lasts.


It was never discontinued, people just figured out they could get around it by claiming a philosophical exemption. I enrolled my daughter in high school last week--since she's new we had to produce vaccination dates.

(The other thing I noticed is that I only had to list dates and sign. No doctor's note.)

400 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:44pm

re: #381 Truck Monkey

Yes, but they're so much easier with a third seat row......

401 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:44pm

re: #394 Jim in Virginia

Adam Kokesh.
He's a "Revolutionary patriot."


He has an exploratory committee to run for Congress from New Mexico's third district.
If this is the future of the Republican party, then I'm with the Whigs.

I'm with you, Jim. He scares the crap out of me.

402 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:50pm

re: #378 HoosierHoops i am not a gambling man by nature BUT i will take the lakers plus 8 1/2

403 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:54pm

re: #157 mikeymom

moon pies are an aquired taste--like scotch whiskey

Where I'm from, the colloquial pronunciation is "moompie." All one syllable. Hard to pronounce as one syllable, but it can be done.

404 shiplord kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:02:55pm

re: #396 tradewind

Hey, remember, ........you married her....

She was more bikini babe than Jabba in those days.

405 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:03:19pm

re: #397 Truck Monkey

What would be involved? Do you want to watch 3 kids?

Writing up Navy Awards for my unit. How old are the kids and is your frig full of beer?

406 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:03:29pm

re: #395 JacksonTn

TM ... no, I don't think they do ... we had one of those long long Ford Wagon with the wood-like stuff on the sides ... in the far back seat your skin would melt into the seat from the sun ... NO COMPLAINING ... you were sandwiched in with the ice chest full of koolaid and bologna and white bread ... six kids ... the horror ...

HA! We had a Pontiac Catalina Gran Safari that was like 22ft long! All vinyl seats! But you could sleep in the back on quilts. Bologna or PB+J at the rest stops, back in the wagon!

407 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:03:52pm

re: #397 Truck Monkey

What would be involved? Do you want to watch 3 kids?

Do they know any special tricks?

/

408 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:04:04pm

re: #383 OldLineTexan
no; it is when george w convinces a clueless woman that he will stop ALL abortions...........

409 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:04:30pm

re: #398 Racer X

Go Lakers!


My whole life I've hated the Lakers.. But I would never downding you for that..
In fact I just might upding you for the passion...Laker Lover

410 Catttt  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:04:39pm

re: #406 OldLineTexan

HA! We had a Pontiac Catalina Gran Safari that was like 22ft long! All vinyl seats! But you could sleep in the back on quilts. Bologna or PB+J at the rest stops, back in the wagon!

IMHO, it's always good to have a vehicle you can sleep in, just in case.

411 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:04:44pm

re: #408 gtrs

no; it is when george w convinces a clueless woman that he will stop ALL abortions...........

Cite?

412 Sand Panda  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:04:48pm

Seeing as how we seem to have fulfilled this thread's MMPQ*, I'm going to bid my fellows Lizards goodbye, and safe, if not happy, car journeys.

*Mandatory Monty Python Quotient

413 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:05:04pm

re: #402 gtrs

i am not a gambling man by nature BUT i will take the lakers plus 8 1/2

I'm rooting for Denver because I am partial to the Big East and kinda root for Carmelo Anthony

414 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:05:12pm

re: #395 JacksonTn

TM ... no, I don't think they do ... we had one of those long long Ford Wagon with the wood-like stuff on the sides ... in the far back seat your skin would melt into the seat from the sun ... NO COMPLAINING ... you were sandwiched in with the ice chest full of koolaid and bologna and white bread ... six kids ... the horror ...

My father played sixties' folk music the whole way. We never wore seat belts--half of us lay down on the luggage in the back. My poor mother always had a hyperactive baby on her lap.

415 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:05:13pm

re: #403 ShanghaiEd

mmmpie**, and can't be said without the suffix ' r .o .c cola '.
** as in the hansen song mmmbop

416 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:05:14pm

Populism

It's a very dangerous road, imo. It should be avoided at all costs.

417 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:05:27pm
418 Achilles Tang  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:05:30pm

re: #387 Kosh's Shadow

I haven't seen the show (and what a disgrace to use the name), but I see people all concerned, and thought they were worried about people on a ship that went down, then realized they're so concerned over the whales that they'll risk their own lives.
I do think that whaling, except for the Inuit and others who live off the meat as part of their culture, shouldn't be done, but I also think the French had the right idea when they sunk Greenpeace's ship.
Have to go feed the dogs

I agree, and I won't watch it; but I don't agree about the Inuit part unless the Inuit agree to live and hunt the way they used to, with paddles, hand harpoons and skin boats; none of this Yamaha/Boston Whaler/Winchester crap.

419 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:06:06pm

re: #412 Sand Panda

Seeing as how we seem to have fulfilled this thread's MMPQ*, I'm going to bid my fellows Lizards goodbye, and safe, if not happy, car journeys.

*Mandatory Monty Python Quotient

Night Night Panda--stay away from the alligators.

420 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:06:29pm

re: #411 OldLineTexan

No, sight. As in GAZE......

421 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:06:46pm

re: #395 JacksonTn

TM ... no, I don't think they do ... we had one of those long long Ford Wagon with the wood-like stuff on the sides ... in the far back seat your skin would melt into the seat from the sun ... NO COMPLAINING ... you were sandwiched in with the ice chest full of koolaid and bologna and white bread ... six kids ... the horror ...

Sounds a lot like my childhood -- Central New Jersey to Southwest Virginia on secondary highways, sprawled out on a foam pad covered with sleeping bags, playing license plate bingo. The only difference was we had a thermos of iced tea and cold hamburgers with mustard.

422 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:06:51pm

re: #405 Nevergiveup

Writing up Navy Awards for my unit. How old are the kids and is your frig full of beer?

Oh. 12 and 8 are more or less self contained. The 5 year old, OTOH, has a bit too much energy before bed. Maybe I should take away her Mountain Dew. I had the leave the beer and spirits behind in my youth. I was a bit too enthusiastic.

423 abolitionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:07:01pm

re: #377 tradewind

Somehow I get the distinct feeling that a poll of the anti-vaxers would reveal far more votes for Obama than for Bush in the last election...CA and OR are the hotbeds of the no-vaccination movement in the US.

Obama was running against Bush? (Axelrod is such a sly strategist. Really. So I suppose there's more than a grain of truth there.)

424 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:07:10pm

re: #412 Sand Panda

Seeing as how we seem to have fulfilled this thread's MMPQ*, I'm going to bid my fellows Lizards goodbye, and safe, if not happy, car journeys.

*Mandatory Monty Python Quotient

I love that! MMPQ

425 ConservativeAtheist  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:07:16pm

re: #353 gtrs

you mean the "record" from the REPUBLICAN state dept of george w that said they were not found because they never existed; or was that report from the REPUBLICAN defense dept? both agency's came to the SAME conclusion, just the folks at state admitted it first........

You might want to take a gander at these quotes before you get too attached to your Caps Lock key.

426 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:07:29pm

I seem to have misplaced my moonbat swatter.
/

427 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:07:36pm

re: #402 gtrs

i am not a gambling man by nature BUT i will take the lakers plus 8 1/2

Really..There should be no championship game called by anyone but Gus Johnson..In fact Congress should enact a law..No Play-off's can be called by anyone but gus...period..The law of the land...
Here we go..Tip off

428 Catttt  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:07:43pm

re: #408 gtrs

no; it is when george w convinces a clueless woman that he will stop ALL abortions...........

I can certainly link clueless Obama woman.

429 Achilles Tang  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:07:56pm

re: #399 EmmmieG

It was never discontinued, people just figured out they could get around it by claiming a philosophical exemption. I enrolled my daughter in high school last week--since she's new we had to produce vaccination dates.

(The other thing I noticed is that I only had to list dates and sign. No doctor's note.)

So do we blame the gummint then?//

430 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:14pm

re: #407 OldLineTexan

Do they know any special tricks?

/

If only.

431 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:20pm

re: #360 screaming_eagle

Are we there yet?

Would you believe that the youngest of our 4, who is nearly 37, when he was doing his Masters, and we picked him up, in a Buffalo suburb, to take him to Toronto with us, started his 'Are we there yet?' before we even got to the corner of his street? NY Grampa had to stop the car there, as he was laughing too hard to drive?

I could see the smirk in my mirror. ;)

All 4 of the kids did it any number of times. Hmmm. I think that I will start teaching the grandkids to do it.

Parents' revenge!

432 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:20pm

re: #404 shiplord kirel

She was more bikini babe than Jabba in those days.

No doubt. BTW, I saw your post about the loss of your dog last week and did not get a chance to express my condolences. We had a poodle when I was growing up and I'm sure yours was a more faithful companion than Jabba.

433 Idle Drifter  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:27pm

BBL, got go for my evening run while there's still day light.

434 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:44pm
435 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:48pm

re: #422 Truck Monkey
A five year old on Mountain Dew... mainlining caffeine. That might keep her up a tad....
:)

436 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:53pm

re: #426 DEZes

I seem to have misplaced my moonbat swatter.
/

What a shame!

//

437 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:09:23pm

re: #409 HoosierHoops

My whole life I've hated the Lakers.. But I would never downding you for that..
In fact I just might upding you for the passion...Laker Lover

I totally understand why everyone hates the Lakers. If the Celtics were still beating everyone silly I would hate them too.

I love L.A. !

438 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:09:49pm

re: #423 abolitionist

That was a) lack of pimf, and b) wishful thinking on my part.
/The clueless goes without saying/

439 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:10:33pm

re: #394 Jim in Virginia

Adam Kokesh.
He's a "Revolutionary patriot."


He has an exploratory committee to run for Congress from New Mexico's third district.
If this is the future of the Republican party, then I'm with the Whigs.

that's Santa Fe and north....solid donkland

440 katemaclaren  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:10:58pm

Must go. headed for UP!

441 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:11:03pm

re: #429 Naso Tang

So do we blame the gummint then?//

The gummint? No. I expect the gummint to be some level of stupid. I just didn't expect it from this many parents.

442 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:12:46pm

re: #409 HoosierHoops

My whole life I've hated the Lakers.. But I would never downding you for that..
In fact I just might upding you for the passion...Laker Lover

My dad had season tickets to the Lakers in the 50's when they played in Minneapolis. He saw the lowest scoring game in NBA history when the Ft Wayne Pistons beat the Minneapolis Lakers 19-18 in 1950. I used to see George Mikan often as a student as I traveled through the Mpls skyway system.

443 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:13:21pm

re: #437 Racer X

I totally understand why everyone hates the Lakers. If the Celtics were still beating everyone silly I would hate them too.

I love L.A. !

I grew up in NorCal..It's the law you have to hate LA...
/Well unless anyone else messed with him...
But I was a total Golden State Fan...Still my all time fav team..the 1975 championship season was the greatest sports memory of my life...

444 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:13:54pm

re: #382 Nevergiveup

Anybody want to comment?

Yes.....[deleted]. And to my fellow Jews who voted for Hussein? How can you live with yourselves. How can you? It is long past the time to abandon the Demonrats.

445 VegasRick  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:15:42pm

re: #402 gtrs

i am not a gambling man by nature BUT i will take the lakers plus 8 1/2

So would I (since the line is only 5 1/2)

446 Jim in Virginia  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:17:28pm

re: #439 albusteve

that's Santa Fe and north....solid donkland

They're doing a Ron Paul Money Bomb July 4. It just occurred to me- did Paul spend all the money he collected? And on what?

447 Achilles Tang  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:17:47pm

re: #441 EmmmieG

The gummint? No. I expect the gummint to be some level of stupid. I just didn't expect it from this many parents.

There aren't a majority of parents by any means. What do you intend to do about your school board allowing unvaccinated children to threaten your own in your schools? The principle was established long ago for good reason. I no longer have children in school, but when I have grandchildren (soon I hope) I will certainly try to ruffle some feathers by asking who changed to the rules and why.

448 Gretchen  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:17:54pm

Why would Americans understand logic or science? American public schools have replaced empathy with truth and politics with science and history. There are no right or wrong answers -- unless the true answer offends someone, then we defer to the false but politically correct answer.

The Oprafied American public feels empathy for autistic kids and parents and they need to blame big pharma. They have no memory of the devastation of polio or measles.

This works well for Democrats.

449 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:29:53pm

Re vaccinations? Any parents who refute to immunize their children should be declared as unfit.

In doing so, they are leaving their kids open to a number of diseases that can kill and maim. I remember when there were polio epidemics, and also had every disease that you could get, except for polio and whooping cough. My kids also had chicken pox, measles, mumps and German measles, just like we did.

My smallpox vaccination scar is no longer visible.

Look at the UK, and the high rate of whooping cough,etc., as they are abandoning the jabs just like parents are here.

And if every one of the 50 states made it mandatory before a child could enter school, a lot of these problems would be gone.

I cannot even imagine how a parent would feel if G-d forbid their child died of a disease that the jabs could have prevented.

The shibboleth re Thimerisol is junk science, and the idiot savants 'celebrities' that scare people can get stuffed.

Prince Harry was here in NYC today, and it reminded me how his late Mum took both her boys and had them inoculated in public to try and educate people.

450 Achilles Tang  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:42:03pm

re: #448 Gretchen

Why would Americans understand logic or science? American public schools have replaced empathy with truth and politics with science and history. There are no right or wrong answers -- unless the true answer offends someone, then we defer to the false but politically correct answer.

The Oprafied American public feels empathy for autistic kids and parents and they need to blame big pharma. They have no memory of the devastation of polio or measles.

This works well for Democrats.

The same logic works well for Republicans in may ways. Making this a partisan political issue without also showing that one side or the other is predominant in opposing vaccination is stupid.

451 Achilles Tang  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:50:41pm

My typing is slipping. Time to retire (tonight only). Goodnight.

452 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:54:15pm

Everyone -

Get with the Program - Overall, for the last 100 years, "vax" has prevented more deaths, by MANY orders of magnitude, than vax has killed.
Given my choice, the choice is "vax."
That is all.

-S-

453 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:09:15pm

How do you feel about the range of this confidence interval?

Although these studies provided strong evidence against the notion that the increasing rates of autism were due to MMR vaccination, they did not exclude the possibility that MMR vaccination could cause autism. This hypothesis was tested directly in a study from Denmark. Researchers used that country's remarkable record keeping to link vaccination records with records of autism. The retrospective cohort study examined data from more than one-half million children born in Denmark from January 1991-December 1998.[20] Using the unique identification number assigned to each infant, they linked records of MMR vaccination status (from the National Board of Health) with records of autism (from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register, which contains information on all diagnoses in outpatient clinics as well as psychiatric hospitals). Information about potential confounding factors was obtained from three other registers. The adjusted relative risk of autism among children who had received the MMR vaccine was 0.92 (95% confidence interval 0.68-1.24). There was also no increase in the risk of other autistic-spectrum disorders. This study was highlighted in a recent systematic review, which concluded that no evidence of an association exists between MMR vaccination and autism.[

[Link: www.medscape.com...]

And if you can't do epidemiological statistics, kindly avoid slamming this post.

Thanks.

.

454 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:09:27pm

re: #449 NY Nana

And spell check failed me! The word is not 'refute'..it is 'refuses'!

And now Naso Tang caught a case of mispelling from me! My bad.

Sweet dreams, Naso Tang!

455 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:14:14pm

Link:

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/465860

Sorry, copy & paste works best....

456 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:21:04pm

re: #453 Dad O' Blondes

Trying to get an article that is not from 1998, and also see the most current findings before you post. Actually the genetic factor has been in the news for a few months.

Ths State of Denial is not a very good place to be.

And please see this and other articles on the page...No proof vaccine led to autism, court rules


Researchers find first common autism gene

BTW, my husband is a scientist and I am a retired RN.

457 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:24:40pm

re: #453 Dad O' Blondes

And just in case you missed them, here are the threads that Charles has posted on the subject.

458 Clutch  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:58:18pm

My personal opinion is that most of this loonie-ness is due to the closing of the facilities for the mentally unstable (AKA insane asylums) in the latter part of the 70's with the intent of "mainstreaming" the occupants of said establishments into the real world. So, now instead of being safely ensconced where trained professionals could minister to them and protect both them and society from each other, they now walk amongst us and infect the weaker and more gullible of us with their babbling, frothing insanities. Just another reason to despise the Carter administration (as it was initiated and happened under his watch).

I remember having to service a computer at St. Elizabeth's in Washington DC in the very late '70's. Kind of a scary place of a guy just out of his teens to be exposed to, at least at first. There was a big concern amongst the staff about what would happen to their charges, since they knew that many of them should not be released for the patients' safety. Not so much that the patients would cause trouble (although some of them certainly could and would), but some of these poor souls needed the sanctuary that St. Elizabeth's provided to them. There was one big black man there that was constantly talking to himself in a loud angry voice; nowadays he would probably thought to be arguing with someone on his Bluetooth headset; if only he had been born 20-30 years later, he would have come across as normal...

459 abolitionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:02:56pm

re: #354 Killgore Trout

There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men
- Henry David Thoreau

Worth contemplating I guess, but next Saturday my thoughts will be of some masses of men whose actions prove him wrong.

460 BartB  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:53:39pm

I did not read all the preceding remarks, but there seems to be a repetitive theme in here, to the effect that Genuine Medical Scientists have convinced
the Court that there is no link, (well, 95% sure at the 3db down points) between mercury preservatives and autism.

I don't know if there is or not. I would prefer to have more than 95%, however.

Why is it that so many people who apparently go the the Church of the Bent Needle insist on HepA shots, but don't believe the same government
that says that Marijuana has no medicinal properties? Maybe because their own experience says otherwise?

The same GMS who said coffee was bad, now say coffee is OK. They said that eggs were bad, but now their OK.

Remember those GSM who said Thalidomide was good to help pregnant women get some sleep later had to retract their endorsements, or just
pretend they never said any such thing.

Considering the number of times that the government and or doctors have changed their minds makes me a little less of a True Believer.

All this having been said, I do not understand the vehemence of those who have True Faith towards those who are not yet converted?

Fake summertime photos of those poor polar bears (whose number increases steadily) are in a good cause if you are an acolyte of the
Church of Man Made Global Warming, and the Wrath of AlGore will smite you if you do not bend over and hand over your wallet. After all,
that discussion has been settled by Scientists. Well, some of them were.

My family and I have all had the required shots, and a few that are not yet required. None of us developed autism. However, comma, that does
not constitute proof of anything, and my mind is not yet mad up on this question.

461 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:12:21am

re: #9 Charles

Now I'm getting hate mail from idiots who say I'm "shilling for Hussein Obama" by linking to the Israel Project's story on his statement about Palestinian incitement.

Man, the craziness is everywhere.

We've got it right here on this thread. Search "Hussein". A certain granny from NY was on here the other day shizzling about "Hussein's dictatorship".

It's going to get worse, not better.

462 jzm  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:12:36pm

A kid in my 12 year olds son's class -who was vaccinated against whooping cough- got it and the whole class had to take antibiotics. I have THREE boys the oldest is 14. They were all vaccinated. I have no idea why whooping cough hit someone who was protected but it's goes to show that those who DO NOT vaccinate their kids are causing problems.

I would rather have a child with Autism than a DEAD child from an OLD disease.


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