Noonan: Can We Play ‘Grown-Up’ Now?

Politics • Views: 6,803

Peggy Noonan would like the GOP to Play Grown-Up.

So would I. We need at least two functioning parties in this country in order for our politics to work correctly, and right now one of them seems to be in permanent tantrum mode.

“Let’s play grown-up.” When I was a child, that’s what we said when we ran out of things to do like playing potsie or throwing rocks in the vacant lot. You’d go in and take your father’s hat and your mother’s purse and walk around saying, “Would you like tea?” In retrospect we weren’t imitating our parents but parents on TV, who wore pearls and suits. But the point is we amused ourselves trying to be little adults.

And that’s what the GOP should do right now: play grown-up.

The Democrats in the White House have been doing it since January, operating with a certain decorum, a kind of assumption as to their natural stature. Obamaland is very different from the last Democratic administration, Bill Clinton’s. The clich� is true: White House staffs reflect their presidents. Mr. Clinton’s staff was human, colorful, messy, slightly mad. They had pent-up energy after 12 years of Republican rule, and they believed their own propaganda that Republicans were wicked. They were oafish: One dragooned a government helicopter to go play golf. President Obama’s staff is far less entertaining. They’re smooth, impeccable, sophisticated, like the boss. They don’t hate Republicans but think they’re missing a few chips (empathy, logic, How Things Really Work). It is true they don’t know what they don’t know, but what they do know (how to quietly seize and hold power, for instance—they now run the American auto industry), they know pretty well.

But back to Sonia Sotomayor, which is my subject.

She is of course a brilliant political pick—Hispanic when Republicans have trouble with Hispanics, a woman when they’ve had trouble with women. Her background (public housing, Nuyorican, Catholic school, Princeton, prominence) is as moving as Clarence Thomas’s, and that is moving indeed. Politically she’s like a beautiful doll containing a canister of poison gas: Break her and you die.

The New York Post’s front page the day after her announcement said it all: “Suprema!” with a picture of the radiant nominee. New York is proud of her; I’m proud of our country and grateful at its insistence, in a time when some say the American dream is dead, that it most certainly is not. The dream is: You can come from any place or condition, any walk of life, and rise to the top, taking your people with you, in your heart and theirs. Maybe that’s what they mean by empathy: Where you come from enters you, and you bring it with you as you rise. But if that’s what they mean, then we’re all empathetic. We’re the most fluid society in human history, but no one ever leaves their zip code in America, we all take it with us. It’s part of our pride. And it’s not bad, it’s good.

Some, and they are idiots, look at Judge Sotomayor and say: attack, attack, kill. A conservative activist told the New York Times, “We need to brand her.” Another told me a fight is needed to excite the base.

Excite the base? How about excite a moderate, or interest an independent? How about gain the attention of people who aren’t already on your side?

Moderates? Independents? Only RINOs care about them!

Read the whole thing, because Noonan also has some on-target points about the over-the-top insanity you can easily find in many “conservative” blog comment threads — for example, in this one, where Free Republic commenters spew an amazing amount of hatred at Sen. John Cornyn, chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, for daring to criticize Rush Limbaugh.

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986 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:16:45pm

Countdown to someone calling Noonan a RINO because she criticized Sarah Palin ... 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

2 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:17:36pm

re: #1 Charles

Countdown to someone calling Noonan a RINO because she criticized Sarah Palin ... 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

You beat me to that post.

3 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:18:33pm

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

4 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:18:45pm

First person to mention "cocktail parties" wins a novelty comb!

5 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:18:56pm

I'm so glad you posted this. I loathe Noonan and think she's a hack, but she's dead on about this.

6 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:19:05pm

re: #1 Charles

Countdown to someone calling Noonan a RINO because she criticized Sarah Palin ... 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

Hence the messenger becomes the topic and the target of anger. I read this in the morning and found it to be useful for the GOP.

7 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:19:20pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

They were for many a decade prior to 1994, so they may just be wanting to return to what they are familiar with.

8 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:19:25pm

I'm off to a cocktail party.

/so I win, Bloodnok?

9 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:19:55pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

they are killing conservatism and that pisses me off

10 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:20:21pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

I'm off to a cocktail party.

/so I win, Bloodnok?

Ding! Winner!

11 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:20:29pm

I'm not buying it.

Bush spoke Spanish.
McCain ushered in Amnesty.
Bush's AG was Hispanic with a fantastic "life story"

it got them nothing.

Why does Obama get to plant his flag on the hispanic vote for doing essentially the same thing for the Hispanic population as many republicans did?

12 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:20:56pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

This is the keeper from Noonan's article:

Politically she’s like a beautiful doll containing a canister of poison gas: Break her and you die.

13 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:20:58pm

I'm glad Noonan helped McCain get elected.

Just think what would have happened if Barack Obama were appointing Supreme Court justices.

/

14 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:21:02pm

Reading Noonan was great for a while. But I couldn't read her throughout the '08 presidential race.

But she's right this time, and verily so.

I really do wish my party would just "grow up".

.

15 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:21:18pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

They're certainly acting like it, what with the endless calls for more purity within the party and calling everyone a RINO. Very bad news for us all, no matter what our political affiliation. A healthy democracy needs a minimum of two vibrant political parties if it wants to stay a democracy.

16 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:21:52pm

I read this at 7am this morning..I could not agree more...Even though I'm not a big fan of her..But she is spot on..
People need to grow up...Remember the party of the adults that are in charge?
Well now they act in the same childish behavior they mocked for 8 years..
Just cause they did it isn't an excuse...
I'm thankful the Lizards don't buy that bullcrap...

17 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:22:40pm

re: #11 Shug

I'm not buying it.

Bush spoke Spanish.
McCain ushered in Amnesty.
Bush's AG was Hispanic with a fantastic "life story"

it got them nothing.

Why does Obama get to plant his flag on the hispanic vote for doing essentially the same thing for the Hispanic population as many republicans did?


Because he is black. Sheesh. Some people do not get it.

/

18 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:22:40pm

This insanity is almost enough to make me watch the Star Wars prequels.

19 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:23:45pm

re: #16 HoosierHoops

I read this at 7am this morning..I could not agree more...Even though I'm not a big fan of her..But she is spot on..
People need to grow up...Remember the party of the adults that are in charge?
Well now they act in the same childish behavior they mocked for 8 years..
Just cause they did it isn't an excuse...
I'm thankful the Lizards don't buy that bullcrap...

Wah! Wah! Wah!

Ok, now that we got that out of the way, it is past time for the GOP to not just play grown-up, but be and act grown-up.

20 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:24:48pm

re: #18 DEZes

This insanity is almost enough to make me watch the Star Wars prequels.


Well the Mets are tied in the Eleventh and the Yankees are also on TV. Just saying.

21 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:24:58pm

just another chapter of life lived in "interesting times", to paraphrase some Chinese individual.

22 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:25:01pm

re: #11 Shug

I'm not buying it.

Bush spoke Spanish.
McCain ushered in Amnesty.
Bush's AG was Hispanic with a fantastic "life story"

it got them nothing.

Why does Obama get to plant his flag on the hispanic vote for doing essentially the same thing for the Hispanic population as many republicans did?

history is a living premis...it evolves and finally settles in a comfortable place for the complacent...history has little to do with reality

23 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:25:02pm

re: #5 iceweasel

I'm so glad you posted this. I loathe Noonan and think she's a hack, but she's dead on about this.

The ability to recognize a good idea from someone you don't like is lost art for many, good for you.

24 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:25:29pm

I don't have a dog in the hunt as far as the republican party goes ... I wish them the best ...

"They’re smooth, impeccable, sophisticated, like the boss." ...

she left out "dreamy" ... Peggy you are slipping ...

/that was not a grown-up thing for me to say ...

25 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:25:40pm

Hey, everyone is kicking everyone else out of the Republican Party. I have been kicked out by both sides on numerous occasions. It's like a fad; everyone wants in on the kicking.

I have read screeds from every side wanting another faction OUT. Peggy wrote more than one.

It's not a Big Tent. It's a Cage Match Royal Rumble. And now that Peggy's tired of swinging her folding chair, she wants it over with and done.

Good luck with the monster you helped create.

26 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:26:01pm

re: #15 iceweasel

They're certainly acting like it, what with the endless calls for more purity within the party and calling everyone a RINO. Very bad news for us all, no matter what our political affiliation. A healthy democracy needs a minimum of two vibrant political parties if it wants to stay a democracy.

The irony is that those yelling "RINO!" the loudest are not really purists in terms of Republican tradition and history. Their notions of Republican values go only as far back as Reagan and the shotgun wedding with that mutant media-creature, the religious right.
Barry Goldwater, who essentially invented modern conservatism in this country, would not (and did not) even recognize them as allies.

27 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:26:09pm
New York is proud of her; I’m proud of our country and grateful at its insistence, in a time when some say the American dream is dead, that it most certainly is not. The dream is: You can come from any place or condition, any walk of life, and rise to the top, taking your people with you, in your heart and theirs.

Um... sorry, that's just not enough. Noonan is essentially cheering for, well, identity politics. I'm more than a little surprised.

28 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:26:21pm

re: #18 DEZes

This insanity is almost enough to make me watch the Star Wars prequels.

Well, now I just feel terrible. That's awful.

/

29 Sosigado  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:26:34pm

Ok...I'll grab the ring. Noonan is a RINO.

30 pink freud  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:26:57pm

"They’re smooth, impeccable, sophisticated, like the boss. They don’t hate Republicans ..."

Peggy Noonan's lost her mind.

31 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:28:50pm

Last weekend, I asked a family member if she watched anything about the Hubble repairs.
What a mistake, she said its not a repair, but an upgrade to spy on Americans, and Obama has the Census Bureau going house to house, to ask about voting history, so the houses could be marked and targeted.
I shit you all not. ODS is growing strong.

32 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:29:06pm

I'm still not gonna to worked up over to much of this blood letting. Talk to me in Oct/Nov. Like a year from the great disaster that was our last election. Let the blood flow till then.

33 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:29:24pm

re: #27 Occasional Reader

Um... sorry, that's just not enough. Noonan is essentially cheering for, well, identity politics. I'm more than a little surprised.

I disagree. She's right -- the American dream is that anyone, no matter their heritage or background, can be successful. It's the opposite of identity politics.

34 FrogMarch  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:29:36pm
She is of course a brilliant political pick—Hispanic when Republicans have trouble with Hispanics, a woman when they’ve had trouble with women

I am so sick of identity politics.

35 Jim in Virginia  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:29:50pm

Noonan is being reasonable and logical.
STONE HER!

36 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:30:26pm

The same people who are praising this fantastic pick, tried to derail Alberto Gonzalez and derailed Janice Rogers Brown. They hurled racist insults and accused Sam Alito of being in the pocket of the mafia. Absolutely disgusting

I give Sotomayor zero credit for her gender or her race or her life experience.
but I take nothing away from her for the same.
I don't care of all 9 judges are black women or asian men, etc , as long as they are deserving of the job I hate quotas

the republicans should give her a very fair, very dignified and very tough confirmation hearing, no different than they would any other judge. make her answer the tough questions like every other candidate
they they should vote based on her answers

give her a fair chance, not a free pass.
be civil.
be courteous.

don't be scumbags like the left behave towards conservative appointees.

37 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:30:29pm

re: #31 DEZes

Last weekend, I asked a family member if she watched anything about the Hubble repairs.
What a mistake, she said its not a repair, but an upgrade to spy on Americans, and Obama has the Census Bureau going house to house, to ask about voting history, so the houses could be marked and targeted.
I shit you all not. ODS is growing strong.

DEZes ... hey, I got my ODS vaccine ... I ain't no anti-vaxer ... but I may need a booster shot ...

38 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:30:35pm

It's evident that Obama wants to make this country conform to his image of what it should be,imho.
If your conservative, that's unacceptable.
This SCOTUS pick is merely an incremental aid toward achieving his objective.

I wonder, will anyone recognize this country 4 years into the future?

39 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:30:40pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

They certainly bent on driving conservative / libertarian / classical liberal types out.

40 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:30:50pm

I think Peggy agrees with me! The Sotomayor confirmation hearing should be a "teaching moment" for the GOP.

41 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #35 Jim in Virginia

Noonan is being reasonable and logical.
STONE HER!

After all, she'd gladly throw rocks at you.

42 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:31:42pm
I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
- Martin Luther King Jr.

Isn't it time we judge people based on the content of their character? When will we be able to look past skin color or race or gender, and pick people for jobs because they are the most qualified?

43 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:31:43pm

re: #36 Shug

The same people who are praising this fantastic pick, tried to derail Alberto Gonzalez and derailed Janice Rogers Brown.

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

44 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:31:51pm

re: #33 Charles

I disagree. She's right -- the American dream is that anyone, no matter their heritage or background, can be successful. It's the opposite of identity politics.

I'm all in favor of someone being picked no matter what their heritage, but I dislike anyone being picked because of their heritage. There is a difference.

45 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:31:59pm

It's encouraging that Obama felt the need to deny that Sotomayor practices identity politics. Whether she does or not is a different issue, it is important that the very concept has become disreputable enough for the liberal POTUS himself to head off the allegation.

46 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:32:16pm

re: #33 Charles

I disagree. She's right -- the American dream is that anyone, no matter their heritage or background, can be successful. It's the opposite of identity politics.

But again, that's not enough.

You're not supposed to get nominated to the Supreme Court because of your "heritage and background"; and that's all Noonan's talking about. That's mostly what the man who nominated Sotomayor talks about in relation to her, too. You're supposed to be nominated irrespective of your "heritage and background", because you're an outstanding jurist.

47 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:32:17pm

re: #32 Nevergiveup

I'm still not gonna to worked up over to much of this blood letting. Talk to me in Oct/Nov. Like a year from the great disaster that was our last election. Let the blood flow till then.

I could almost care less myself....Peggy Noonan does not speak for me any more than RL or the other pretty haired heads....who gives a shit anymore?....debate, split, shred...presto!...a talking point!

48 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:32:18pm

re: #43 Charles

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

NCLR WELCOMES NOMINATION OF GONZALES TO SERVE AS ATTORNEY GENERAL

Washington, DC – The National Council of La Raza (NCLR), the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the U.S., today welcomed President Bush’s nomination of White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales to succeed John Ashcroft as Attorney General. If confirmed, Gonzales would be the first Hispanic ever to serve as Attorney General.

“We are very encouraged by the Gonzales nomination. We previously criticized the Bush Administration for not having an Hispanic in the cabinet since the departure of former HUD Secretary, now Senator-elect, Mel Martinez. We are pleased that one of the first acts since the President’s reelection both rectifies that situation and marks an historic milestone for the Latino community. Never before has an Hispanic served as head of one of the four major cabinet posts – Secretary of State, Treasury, Defense, and Attorney General,” stated Janet Murguia, NCLR Executive Director and COO.

Murguia also noted Gonzales’ ties to the Hispanic community throughout his career. “Alberto Gonzales served with distinction on the board of directors of one of NCLR’s oldest and most respected affiliates, the Association for the Advancement of Mexican Americans (AAMA) in Houston, Texas. Moreover, during his tenure as White House Counsel, he has been one of the most accessible members of the White House staff to NCLR and other Hispanic organizations,” added Murguia.

Murguia concluded, “We acknowledge that this is the first step of a long confirmation process that requires that his record be fully examined. That being said, Gonzales is a thoughtful, reasonable public servant, a man of his word, and we have every expectation that his nomination will be very well received in the Latino community.”

49 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:33:06pm

re: #43 Charles

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

and republicans who are now bent out of shape about La raza were silent back then

there are double standards on both sides. No doubts about that

50 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:33:11pm

re: #39 jcm

They certainly bent on driving conservative / libertarian / classical liberal types out.

The same happened to Barry Goldwater, so why should we who are less than far right be treated any differently?

51 Sosigado  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:33:13pm

re: #45 Shiplord Kirel

It's encouraging that Obama felt the need to deny that Sotomayor practices identity politics. Whether she does or not is a different issue, it is important that the very concept has become disreputable enough for the liberal POTUS himself to head off the allegation.

Symbolism over substance.

52 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:33:24pm

re: #37 JacksonTn

DEZes ... hey, I got my ODS vaccine ... I ain't no anti-vaxer ... but I may need a booster shot ...

booster shot? great idea! (and maybe a few games of 8-ball...)

good night good folk!

53 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:33:37pm

re: #43 Charles

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

So THAT'S why the Dems hated him so much!

/

54 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:33:45pm

re: #46 Occasional Reader

But again, that's not enough.

You're not supposed to get nominated to the Supreme Court because of your "heritage and background"; and that's all Noonan's talking about. That's mostly what the man who nominated Sotomayor talks about in relation to her, too. You're supposed to be nominated irrespective of your "heritage and background", because you're an outstanding jurist.

Sotomayor has been on track for the Supreme Court for a long time -- people were talking about her as a possible candidate 10 years ago. She was NOT picked solely because of her heritage.

55 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:33:45pm

re: #43 Charles

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

Alberto Gonzalez is a member of NCLR!? Why that's the same group that Tom Tancredo and his buddies at VDARE equate with the KKK.

Oh the irony.

56 Bobblehead  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:34:45pm

re: #18 DEZes

This insanity is almost enough to make me watch the Star Wars prequels.

You are far gone, aren't you?

57 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:35:45pm

re: #27 Occasional Reader

Um... sorry, that's just not enough. Noonan is essentially cheering for, well, identity politics. I'm more than a little surprised.

OR..Love you bro..
She called out the party...If there any fucking adults left in the GOP maybe they will answer the call...All I've seen for the last couple months is party implosion and childish politics on the GOP's part..
And the fringe filling the void..And trust me..this is the fringe filling the void.

58 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:36:15pm

re: #54 Charles

Sotomayor has been on track for the Supreme Court for a long time -- people were talking about her as a possible candidate 10 years ago. She was NOT picked solely because of her heritage.

Then I'd be thrilled to hear Obama talk about her outstanding legal scholarship, and the like.

59 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:36:27pm

re: #54 Charles

Even Rush Limbaugh is on the record saying that Sotomayor was ' on a rocket ship to the SCOTUS ' twelve years ago during hearings for her CC judgeship.
It's one of those Compelling Life Stories, don't ya know. Can't beat 'em.

60 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:36:32pm

re: #27 Occasional Reader

Noonan's line, "her and her people", is flawed. If it were just "her", I'd agree. Noonan's inclusiveness suggests that Sotomayor represents all Hispanics. She does not. Identifying her with her group is stereotyping, and is identity politics.

On the other hand, Sotomayor's rise from poverty and obscurity is a vintage American Dream story, and one that the GOP ought not tarnish. Noonan is right about that. Rather, the GOP should congratulate her on her success, and then engage her where it counts: on judicial philosophy, race and ethnicity, and identity politics. On those issues, the GOP wins if the GOP leadership isn't hiding from its best ideas.

61 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:37:11pm

re: #54 Charles

Sotomayor has been on track for the Supreme Court for a long time -- people were talking about her as a possible candidate 10 years ago. She was NOT picked solely because of her heritage.


No but it was an overriding reason and that just is not right. And Republican Presidents have done the same thing. Clarence Thomas wasn't picked because he was the most qualified Jurist in the land. But it was wrong then and it is wrong now.

62 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:37:19pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

It's a very secure place to be. You don't need to actually engage anybody, you just have to scream and whine a lot.

Beats the hell outta thinkin'.

63 Sosigado  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:37:22pm

re: #58 Occasional Reader

Then I'd be thrilled to hear Obama talk about her outstanding legal scholarship, and the like.

He can't.

64 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:37:29pm

re: #37 JacksonTn

DEZes ... hey, I got my ODS vaccine ... I ain't no anti-vaxer ... but I may need a booster shot ...

I have no illusions here, Obama is not what I think the country needs, But seeing monsters in every shadow is not logical.
I was waiting for said family member to tell me the Hubble upgrade was a frigging laser to shoot us all if we voted against Obama, and I am sure thats where it was headed.
I just shook it off and walked away before I screamed.
I know you were messing around, I just needed to vent. ;)

65 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:37:44pm

She posts some good questions, and the overall point is good ... BUT maybe she (Noonan) is also a bit polyanna-ish, for of course Sotomayor is a racist, affirmative action is necessarily racist, but it's supposed to be an offsetting racism - which perhaps I for one would grant. If that's as far as Sotomayor goes, good for her, but *is* it as far as she goes, or does she carry on about victimization and the evils of America and the special perceptions she has as a woman or hispanic or yankee fan?

66 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:38:17pm

re: #31 DEZes

Last weekend, I asked a family member if she watched anything about the Hubble repairs.
What a mistake, she said its not a repair, but an upgrade to spy on Americans, and Obama has the Census Bureau going house to house, to ask about voting history, so the houses could be marked and targeted.
I shit you all not. ODS is growing strong.

For the love of God.....
Doesn't she know that we have many other satellites for spying, ones that (unlike Hubble) are actually capable of doing the job? This reminds me of much of the rank and file lefty rhetoric that accompanied the deployment of our Pershing II missiles in Europe in the 80s. Many media conformists I spoke to about this had the idea (took it for granted in fact) that these were the very first nuclear systems to be deployed in Europe. From that idiotic misconception it was easy to believe that the Kremlin-sponsored protestors in Europe were simply outraged at a massively reckless escalation of the Cold War. No such thing was true of course, Pershing II was simply an upgrade that could serve to offset new Soviet systems.

67 pink freud  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:38:30pm

re: #58 Occasional Reader

Then I'd be thrilled to hear Obama talk about her outstanding legal scholarship, and the like.

That's the conversation I'm waiting to hear also.

68 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:38:33pm

re: #63 Sosigado

He can't.

Sure he can. Put it on the teleprompter.

69 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:38:38pm

re: #23 avanti

The ability to recognize a good idea from someone you don't like is lost art for many, good for you.

Thanks. I think the ability to recognise a good point no matter where it comes from is an essential part of intellectual honesty.

The more we disagree with someone the more important it is to listen to them very carefully and make sure we're judging each argument on its merits, and not our kneejerk dislike. Hard to do sometimes, but worth it!

70 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:38:42pm

re: #63 Sosigado

He can't.

Oh yeah, 80%. I forgot about that.

/

71 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:39:07pm

Noonan says something so ridiculous here I am laughing.... how well thought out BHO's staff's moves are?
Uh, yeah, let's take A/F One for a spin over NYC and not tell anyone.

72 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:39:28pm

Republicans, Democrats, RINOs, DINOs, Latinos, and Hispanics:

A granfalloon, in the fictional religion of Bokononism (created by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1963 novel Cat's Cradle), is defined as a "false karass." That is, it is a group of people who outwardly choose or claim to have a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is actually meaningless.


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

73 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:39:31pm

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

For the love of God.....
Doesn't she know that we have many other satellites for spying, ones that (unlike Hubble) are actually capable of doing the job? This reminds me of much of the rank and file lefty rhetoric that accompanied the deployment of our Pershing II missiles in Europe in the 80s. Many media conformists I spoke to about this had the idea (took it for granted in fact) that these were the very first nuclear systems to be deployed in Europe. From that idiotic misconception it was easy to believe that the Kremlin-sponsored protestors in Europe were simply outraged at a massively reckless escalation of the Cold War. No such thing was true of course, Pershing II was simply an upgrade that could serve to offset new Soviet systems.

Yes, she is silly.

Google Earth is doing all that spying.

The Hubble is for peekin' in her bathroom window.

/

74 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:39:36pm

re: #46 Occasional Reader

But again, that's not enough.

You're not supposed to get nominated to the Supreme Court because of your "heritage and background"; and that's all Noonan's talking about. That's mostly what the man who nominated Sotomayor talks about in relation to her, too. You're supposed to be nominated irrespective of your "heritage and background", because you're an outstanding jurist.

That's not Noonan's argument: to get nominated to the Supreme Court because of your "heritage and background"
There's more to the article than what's shown above:

Serious opposition to Judge Sotomayor is not only fair, it's necessary: It's your job to oppose if you oppose. But it should be serious, not merely partisan. Mr. Obama himself well knows he voted against John Roberts and Sam Alito only in essence because they were conservative. He was planning a presidential run and playing to a left-wing base. But that didn't enhance his reputation, did it? Not with anyone who wasn't part of his base.

Barring extraordinary revelations, Judge Sotomayor is going to be confirmed. She's going to win. She does not appear to be as liberal or left-wing as others who could have been picked. She seems reminiscent of the justice she will replace, David Souter. She will likely come across in hearings as smart, spirited, a middle-aged woman who's lived a life of grit, determination and American-dream proving.

Republicans can be liberated by the fact that they're outnumbered and likely about to lose. They can step back, breathe in, and use the Sotomayor confirmation hearings to perform a public service: Find out what the future justice thinks and why she thinks it, explain what they think and why they think it, look at the two different philosophies, if that's what they are. Don't make it sparring, make it thinking.

Don't grill and grandstand, summon and inform. Show the respect that expresses equality and the equality that is an expression of respect. Ask and listen, get the logic, explain where you think it wrong. Fill the airwaves with thoughtful exchanges.

Here are some areas: What is judicial activism? Is it sometimes more rightly called judicial presumption? Judge Sotomayor sided against the Connecticut firemen in the famous Ricci case—why? Was this empathy, or a very selective sympathy that resulted in the victimizing of human beings who were not members of a politically favored ethnic or racial group? What is affirmative action, when does it become quota making? How does she understand the Second Amendment? What did the Framers intend there? In what ways did her experience, upbringing and ethnicity contribute to her understanding of the law?

These are just a few fertile areas. There are more.

The odd thing Republican elected officials forget is that they often have the better argument. So used are they to the defensive crouch that they find it difficult to stand tall, expand, tell, hear. They should have more faith in the philosophical assumptions of their party, which so often reflect the wisdom of experience, of tradition, of Founders more brilliant than we.

This might be a good time for them to rediscover their faith in the American people, in their ability to listen, weigh and think. That thinking may not always show up immediately in polls, but it adds up in time and has its own weight, its own force, and future.

Trust them. They're grown-ups, even if they don't always dress the part.

75 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:39:52pm

re: #1 Charles

Countdown to someone calling Noonan a RINO because she criticized Sarah Palin ... 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

Charles -

Perhaps Peggy Noonan is - Jealous - Sarah Palin MIGHT JUST Become "Palin-45" - Peggy Noonan - will NOT - really too bad. Peggy Noonan was one of the Intellectuals of the Reagan Administration. A President ELIZABETH NOONAN - in Office Today - would bother me less than President Barack Obama. "Peggy" has a hold on Reality. Obama - Not So Much. That is all.

-S-

76 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:40:31pm

re: #60 quickjustice

Sotomayor's rise from poverty and obscurity is a vintage American Dream story, and one that the GOP ought not tarnish. Noonan is right about that. Rather, the GOP should congratulate her on her success, and then engage her where it counts: on judicial philosophy, race and ethnicity, and identity politics.

Very true.

77 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:05pm

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

For the love of God.....
Doesn't she know that we have many other satellites for spying, ones that (unlike Hubble) are actually capable of doing the job? This reminds me of much of the rank and file lefty rhetoric that accompanied the deployment of our Pershing II missiles in Europe in the 80s. Many media conformists I spoke to about this had the idea (took it for granted in fact) that these were the very first nuclear systems to be deployed in Europe. From that idiotic misconception it was easy to believe that the Kremlin-sponsored protestors in Europe were simply outraged at a massively reckless escalation of the Cold War. No such thing was true of course, Pershing II was simply an upgrade that could serve to offset new Soviet systems.

She has no idea how optics work, and is not a person that can be reasoned with once she takes the bait.

78 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:29pm

re: #57 HoosierHoops

She called out the party.

Look; I don't think she's "unqualified", in the strict sense of the word. Yes, she's get a pretty accomplished legal background; and yes, she's a Circuit Court judge, which is a traditional (and logical) stepping stone to SCOTUS.

Now; is she an exceptional Circuit Court judge? Doesn't seem to be the case. And so it bothers me that her defenders seem to have to switch to talking about her... well, identity... as opposed to her legal scholarship.

I don't think she's a disaster, and I think the word "racist" is overwrought in describing her. But it's perfectly appropriate to criticize this appointment.

79 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:32pm

but peggy, you know all them dems are commies and hate jesus......../

80 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:32pm

re: #75 Dr. Shalit

Charles -

Perhaps Peggy Noonan is - Jealous - Sarah Palin MIGHT JUST Become "Palin-45" - Peggy Noonan - will NOT - really too bad. Peggy Noonan was one of the Intellectuals of the Reagan Administration. A President ELIZABETH NOONAN - in Office Today - would bother me less than President Barack Obama. "Peggy" has a hold on Reality. Obama - Not So Much. That is all.

-S-

In my opinion, Sarah Palin will never be President.

81 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:34pm

Peggy Noonan, at her best (Elian Gonzalez):

"...And some of us, in our sadness, wonder what Ronald Reagan, our last great president, would have done. I think I know. The burden of proof would have been on the communists, not the Americans; he would have sent someone he trusted to the family and found out the facts; seeing the boy had bonded with the cousin he would have negotiated with Mr. Castro to get the father here, and given him whatever he could that would not harm our country. Mr. Reagan would not have dismissed the story of the dolphins as Christian kitsch, but seen it as possible evidence of the reasonable assumption that God's creatures had been commanded to protect one of God's children. And most important, the idea that he would fear Mr. Castro, that he would be afraid of a tired old tyrant in faded fatigues, would actually have made him laugh. Mr. Reagan would fear only what kind of country we would be if we took the little boy and threw him over the side, into the rough sea of history. He would have made a statement laying out the facts and ended it, "The boy stays, the dream endures, the American story continues. And if Mr. Castro doesn't like it, well, I'm afraid that's really too bad." But then he was a man.

[Link: www.opinionjournal.com...]

Amen.

.

82 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:48pm

re: #73 OldLineTexan

Yes, she is silly.

Google Earth is doing all that spying.

The Hubble is for peekin' in her bathroom window.

/

Its about to see a FULL MOON. ;)

83 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:50pm

re: #43 Charles

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

Charles -

The verdict of the 1840's is FINAL as far as I am concerned. What say ye?

-S-

84 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:41:54pm

re: #31 DEZes

Last weekend, I asked a family member if she watched anything about the Hubble repairs.
What a mistake, she said its not a repair, but an upgrade to spy on Americans, and Obama has the Census Bureau going house to house, to ask about voting history, so the houses could be marked and targeted.
I shit you all not. ODS is growing strong.

Wow. Just... Wow.

The first thing that comes to mind is that the Hubble's scientific HQ is in Baltimore... Not exactly a hotbed of gubmint intelligence. And by all accounts they're booked solid.

Secondly, what are they going to to? Flip the whole thing around and take a spectographic analysis of her car's exhaust?

Whatever you do, don't show here Google Earth's "Street View"...

85 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:42:55pm

re: #73 OldLineTexan

Yes, she is silly.

Google Earth is doing all that spying.

The Hubble is for peekin' in her bathroom window.

/

Ha! Our bathrooms have no windows!

EAT IT, NASA!

86 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:43:02pm

not meant as a thread hijack...need some help.

quick question for yinz. y'all, all'yall, et cetera

i am having occasional/often problems accessing lgf, i get a does not exists at dns level error message (as if i typed in the wrong url).

before i go ballistic on my isp (again), anyone else having occasional/often problems with access?

87 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:43:30pm

re: #85 Occasional Reader

Ha! Our bathrooms have no windows!

EAT IT, NASA!

We gots infrared ... we can monitor your every movement.
/

88 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:43:35pm

re: #64 DEZes

I have no illusions here, Obama is not what I think the country needs, But seeing monsters in every shadow is not logical.
I was waiting for said family member to tell me the Hubble upgrade was a frigging laser to shoot us all if we voted against Obama, and I am sure thats where it was headed.
I just shook it off and walked away before I screamed.
I know you were messing around, I just needed to vent. ;)

The toolbag is watching us all from low Earth orbit.

89 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:43:59pm

re: #65 itellu3times

You make a good point, and that's where the GOP must engage her and test her. Where are her boundaries? Does she really think white men should be discriminated against? Does she think that people should receive preferences based upon race and ethnicity? Where does merit fit in, if at all? Etc. Does she agree with Sandra Day O'Conner that affirmative action must be eliminated in twenty-five years?

This is a huge political opportunity that the GOP is likely to botch.

90 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:43:59pm

re: #88 Bloodnok

The toolbag is watching us all from low Earth orbit.

TOOLBAG '12

91 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:44:02pm

U.S. ground-based interceptor rockets would “likely” knock out a long-range North Korean missile before it could reach the American mainland, the Pentagon’s independent testing official said today.

“I believe we have a reasonable chance” of an intercept, Charles McQueary, director of operational test and evaluation, said in an interview as North Korea defied international condemnation of a nuclear test with another short-range missile launch.

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

To bad the program is being partially shit canned?

92 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:44:36pm

re: #84 Pawn of the Oppressor
Street View is creepy, IMO...... when it finally came to my neighborhood, I went down the little viewer thingy and dammit, there I was, standing in my front yard..... not a clear picture, but still......not cool.
It should stick to the street and not pan all the way up into your yard.

93 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:44:53pm

re: #79 gtrs

but peggy, you know all them dems are commies and hate jesus......../

dems luv teh spacejeebus, tho

/

94 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:45:05pm

re: #29 Sosigado

Ok...I'll grab the ring. Noonan is a RINO.

That's not grabbing a ring, that's pissing on the Third Rail.

95 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:46:44pm

re: #90 OldLineTexan

TOOLBAG '12

The Toolbag has an impressive life story.
Originally slated to be sold at Home Depot, it made all the way to NASA

96 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:46:48pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

That's not grabbing a ring, that's pissing on the Third Rail.

I know where several electric fences are, I could point em out for him/her. ;)

97 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:47:07pm

re: #80 Charles

And in my opinion, Sean Connery never will play James Bond again. ;-)

98 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:47:12pm

It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people.

[Link: english.pravda.ru...]

Pravda? Pravda? Stop the world I wanta get off?

99 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:47:21pm

Sotomayor is not a "racist."

This talking point is overheated and false, and more importantly -- it's a losing strategy. You only hurt yourself by insisting on it.

100 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:47:29pm

re: #87 OldLineTexan

We gots infrared ... we can monitor your every movement.
/

I suspect you guys have a stool pigeon.

101 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:47:47pm

re: #97 quickjustice

And in my opinion, Sean Connery never will play James Bond again. ;-)

Maybe he could play James Bond's dad?

102 DebbieSym  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:47:59pm

I am a moderate but I disagree with Peggy's analysis. I think Republicans should oppose Sotomayor because of her judicial philosophy, which, it seems to me, is one of favortism over impartiality. Obama, when he was a senator, said he did not vote for John Roberts basically because he didn't think Roberts would bring enough empathy to his decisions, didn't have enough "heart." Sotomayor brings a lot of heart to her judgments, which, as far as I can tell, means that she favors the poor, minorities, folks who have had to struggle. Thus, in the New Haven case, she sides not with the 19 firefighters who studied hard to pass the test and earn a promotion, but with the city, that is upset because no African American passed. In other words, she's motivated by identity politics. There are several statements that she made that suggest she's not fit to be on the Supreme Court.

If the Republican party wants to attract a broader base, I think they should NOT imitate the Democrats, who are all about spend-spend, tax-tax, and play favorites in the market, in the courts, in policy. I think we need to define being a Republican as someone who is interested in limited government, limited spending, limited taxation, and impartiality when it comes to just about anything. You want to know you are equal in the eyes of the law — and equal in the eyes of your government.

103 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:48:19pm
104 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:48:22pm
The choice for Republicans isn't between "attack" and "roll over." It's broader than that, and more interesting.

I can't agree more with Noonan on this point. I'm very tired of seeing false dichotomies presented in our ranks. It's a logical fallacy, and harmful to our politics. It's a turn-off to be presented with such a false choice.

105 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:48:25pm

re: #91 Nevergiveup

I'd feel better if Obama weren't intent on canceling the missile defenses slated for Poland and the Czech Republic.

106 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:48:41pm

re: #101 Nevergiveup

Maybe he could play James Bond's dad?

It's a shitty job, but somebody has to do it.

107 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:49:04pm

re: #100 Occasional Reader

I suspect you guys have a stool pigeon.

Is that like a shit bird?

108 shortshrift  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:49:14pm

Is there any evidence that the Senate Republicans are going to Bork Sotomayor? So far I have only heard grown-up statements from them. They are taking a softly, softly approach recognizing that neither their advice nor consent is needed. The hearings are impending like Y2K - and will be as anticlimactic.
And Noonan is wrong if she thinks Ted Kennedy suffered politically from his treatment of Bork.

109 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:49:14pm

re: #80 Charles

Charles -

You may be right on this one. La Sarah is too involved in the relationshp of her daughter vs. "Johnston."
IF SO - Really too bad.
Let me ask you a question.

1. Who would YOU rather have "1 Heartbeat" from the Presidency - SARAH or JOE?

I Think the answer is self-evident. What say ye?

-S-

110 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:49:39pm

re: #92 tradewind

Street View is creepy, IMO...... when it finally came to my neighborhood, I went down the little viewer thingy and dammit, there I was, standing in my front yard..... not a clear picture, but still......not cool.
It should stick to the street and not pan all the way up into your yard.

It is pretty strange, but how can such a thing be censored?

I turned 30 and suddenly all the grocery stores are playing songs from my iPod. I get mail trying to sell me shit from people I don't even know because a family member of my roommate bought a particular brand of something last year... The coupon machine at the store prints out coupons for stuff that it knows I like to buy. Supposedly there are two large companies in Delaware that know everything that there is to know about me as a consumer, and yes, they sell their information to politicians, so if they wanted to send around a pudgy white person with a tailored political video about how Obama hates pudgy white people, they could do it easily (and have already to some people)... We are long past the point of no return with this kind of thing. If they want to come for me, they can find me. And they probably know I'll be ready for them, too.

In the meantime, I'm just trying to get by.

111 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:49:50pm

re: #99 Charles

I agree with you there, would it be more accurate to say she shows bigotry in that statement she made?

112 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:50:11pm

re: #99 Charles

Sotomayor is not a "racist."

This talking point is overheated and false, and more importantly -- it's a losing strategy. You only hurt yourself by insisting on it.

Um... to whom are you addressing this point?

113 Noam Sayin'  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:51:50pm

re: #43 Charles

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

No shit?

114 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:52:13pm

re: #99 Charles

Charles -

You ARE correct. Judge Sotomayor is NOT a Racist, per se.

Take it from there.

-S-

115 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:52:19pm

re: #78 Occasional Reader

Look; I don't think she's "unqualified", in the strict sense of the word. Yes, she's get a pretty accomplished legal background; and yes, she's a Circuit Court judge, which is a traditional (and logical) stepping stone to SCOTUS.

Now; is she an exceptional Circuit Court judge? Doesn't seem to be the case. And so it bothers me that her defenders seem to have to switch to talking about her... well, identity... as opposed to her legal scholarship.

I don't think she's a disaster, and I think the word "racist" is overwrought in describing her. But it's perfectly appropriate to criticize this appointment.

We got a genius chief of the court..Roberts..Just a blessing in talent and leadership..Alito is just a wonderful jurist..smart...Great values...
Nobody is going to worry that Alito is going to go all left wing wacko boy on us..
Obama has offered a smart women who seems pretty fucking fair in her decisions..America deserves diversity..
And she is not a fucking raceist..And that line is starting to piss me off...

116 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:52:28pm

re: #112 Occasional Reader

Um... to whom are you addressing this point?

To the people who continue to insist that Sotomayor is a "racist." (Not you.)

The accusation has been made at least a hundred times in our threads about Sotomayor today.

117 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:52:45pm

Lizards, thanks for the company and sanity, I must retire.

118 Bobblehead  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:00pm

re: #89 quickjustice

You make a good point, and that's where the GOP must engage her and test her. Where are her boundaries? Does she really think white men should be discriminated against? Does she think that people should receive preferences based upon race and ethnicity? Where does merit fit in, if at all? Etc. Does she agree with Sandra Day O'Conner that affirmative action must be eliminated in twenty-five years?

This is a huge political opportunity that the GOP is likely to botch.

That would be a fine example of what I meant by "getting their act together". Will they do it? I will be pleasantly surprised if they do but, based on the party's lack of anything vaguely resembling coordinated and thoughtful opposition to Obama since January, I am not hopeful.

119 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:01pm

re: #43 Charles

Alberto Gonzales, by the way, is a member of the National Council of La Raza, and served on the board of directors for one of their major affiliates.

Just sayin'.

re: #99 Charles

Sotomayor is not a "racist."

This talking point is overheated and false, and more importantly -- it's a losing strategy. You only hurt yourself by insisting on it.

Agreed. Too much of the right has gone to its own Fantasy Island since the election. There they indulge themselves in their illusions while back in the real world the GOP falls to pieces.

(The Fantasy Island is from an 2004 preelection article in National Review by John O'Sullivan).

120 freedomplow  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:20pm

Having a hard time getting outraged by Obama's pick. Seems he earned it.

Some people are outraged by dumb comments she has said in the past.

Some people are outraged by dumb comments her opponents have said recently.

Sorry, just not going to get worked up about dumb things people say this time.

Say some dumb things from time to time myself... Past, recent and future.

121 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:29pm
122 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:35pm

re: #117 DEZes

Sleep well, and be safe.

123 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:35pm

re: #102 DebbieSym

Noonan is not promoting that the GOP do nothing:

Don't grill and grandstand, summon and inform. Show the respect that expresses equality and the equality that is an expression of respect. Ask and listen, get the logic, explain where you think it wrong. Fill the airwaves with thoughtful exchanges.

Here are some areas: What is judicial activism? Is it sometimes more rightly called judicial presumption? Judge Sotomayor sided against the Connecticut firemen in the famous Ricci case—why? Was this empathy, or a very selective sympathy that resulted in the victimizing of human beings who were not members of a politically favored ethnic or racial group? What is affirmative action, when does it become quota making? How does she understand the Second Amendment? What did the Framers intend there? In what ways did her experience, upbringing and ethnicity contribute to her understanding of the law?

These are just a few fertile areas. There are more.

The odd thing Republican elected officials forget is that they often have the better argument. So used are they to the defensive crouch that they find it difficult to stand tall, expand, tell, hear. They should have more faith in the philosophical assumptions of their party, which so often reflect the wisdom of experience, of tradition, of Founders more brilliant than we.

124 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:43pm

re: #113 Noam Sayin'

No shit?

No shit. Google it.

125 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:53:55pm

Hot Air is mocking Obama for not knowing what the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency does exactly while chatting at a hamburger join.Here's the "burgergate" scandal conversation.

"Obama: What do you do Walter?
Walter: I work at, uh, NGA, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Obama: Outstanding, how long you been doing that?
Walter: About six years
Obama: Yea?
Walter: Yes.
Obama: You like it?
Walter: I do, keeps me…
Obama: So explain to me exactly what this National Geospatial…uh…
Walter: Uh, we work with, uh, satellite imagery..
Obama: Right
Walter: [unintelligible] …support systems, so…
Obama: Sounds like good work.
Walter: Enjoy the weekend.
Obama: Appreciate it. "

126 golf and ski  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:54:04pm

To be fair, the Republicans should treat Sotomayor just as the Democrats treated Roberts or Alito. Or better yet, how they treated another minority nominee with a compelling personal story. Clarence Thomas.

127 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:54:19pm

An aside; ironically, or not, I had a conversation with a Mexican colleague this afternoon, and found we were in almost complete agreement in terms of both Sotomayor's strengths and weaknesses. (To wit; he, too, thought her actual track record was okay, if a little thin; yet he, too, was concerned about her apparent rhetorical affiliation with identity politics.)

128 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:54:23pm

re: #117 DEZes

Lizards, thanks for the company and sanity, I must retire.

Goodnight DEZes. Watch out for that tool bag!

129 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:54:40pm

re: #117 DEZes

Lizards, thanks for the company and sanity, I must retire.

By that do you mean wearing black socks with sandals or wearing those funny, huge, wrap around glasses?

130 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:54:54pm

re: #99 Charles

I think Taranto has this right: [Link: online.wsj.com...]

Was the comment in question racist in character? That depends. Here is the quote in dispute:

"I would hope that a wise Latina woman, with the richness of her experiences, would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."

We'll discount the "I would hope" and assume what follows is a statement of belief, not just aspiration. Here is Merriam-Webster's definition of racism:

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

By the first definition, Sotomayor's statement is not racist, even assuming that "Latina" is a racial category. She is quite clear that her belief in the superior decision-making skills of "a wise Latina woman" as compared with "a white male" is contingent on culture and experience, not rooted in some essential racial difference.

Sotomayor's statement is, however, an expression of prejudice, an exercise in stereotyping. It reminds us of an exchange on an early episode of "All in the Family," which we caught as part of a retrospective aired earlier this week on the TV Land cable network. Archie Bunker and the Meathead are arguing over a brochure advertising a slate of candidates for local office:

Archie: What's the matter with this? I call this representative government. You've got Salvatori, Feldman, O'Reilly, Nelson--that's an Italian, a Jew, an Irishman and a regular American there. That's what I call a balanced ticket.

Meathead: Why do you always have to label people by nationality?

Archie: 'Cause, how else are you going to get the right man for the right job? For instance, take Feldman there. He's up for treasurer. Well, that's perfect. All them people know how to handle money. Know what I mean?

Meathead: No, I don't.

Archie: Well, then you got Salvatori running for D.A. He can keep an eye on Feldman. You know, I want to tell you something about the Italians. When you do get an honest one, you really got something there.

Meathead: Aw, c'mon, Arch.

Archie: Well, then here you got O'Reilly, the mick. He can see that the graft is equally spread around, you know. You got Nelson, the American guy. He's good for TV appearances, to make the rest of them look respectable.

Like Sotomayor, Archie is not propounding a theory of racial or ethnic supremacy but describing the world in terms of culturally contingent stereotypes. He is engaging in identity politics.

131 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:54:55pm

re: #126 golf and ski

To be fair, the Republicans should treat Sotomayor just as the Democrats treated Roberts or Alito. Or better yet, how they treated another minority nominee with a compelling personal story. Clarence Thomas.

no.
they shouldn't

132 Noam Sayin'  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:55:12pm

re: #124 Charles

No shit. Google it.

Wasn't doubting you, Charles. It just comes as a surprise. This never came up at all during his confirmation, or thereafter.

133 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:55:20pm

re: #116 Charles

(Not you.)

Well, good. If it had been directed at me, I'd have had to accuse you of RACISM! against the Irish/German-American Atheist Race.

/

134 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:56:08pm

re: #129 Truck Monkey

By that do you mean wearing black socks with sandals or wearing those funny, huge, wrap around glasses?

NAKED! ;)
Nite all.

135 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:56:09pm

re: #129 Truck Monkey

By that do you mean wearing black socks with sandals or wearing those funny, huge, wrap around glasses?

I sent him a GORGEOUS lime-green "Mexican wedding" shirt and some nice orange Bermuda shorts. And a new 3/8" wide black patent leather belt!

/

136 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:56:12pm

re: #132 Noam Sayin'

Wasn't doubting you, Charles. It just comes as a surprise. This never came up at all during his confirmation, or thereafter.

World Net Daily tried to make it an issue.

137 DebbieSym  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:56:22pm

I would feel a lot better about Democrats and Obama — not to mention the media — if someone would acknowledge that Clarence Thomas and Miguel Estrada have inspiring stories as well. Only Republicans mention this, and the media ignores it. They also ignore the fact that Estrada was railroaded. He was a wonderful candidate, but the Dems made damn sure he didn't get anywhere.

OK, so that's the way the game is played. Republicans have to play nice, even when Democrats are nasty. There's a lot of pent-up resentment over the double-standard in this country. Some Republicans are having a hard time doing the "nice" dance yet again. I don't blame them.

The suggestion is, we're not inclusive. Give me a break. Republicans have bent over backwards to be inclusive. Let's not forget that Bush appointed Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, and many, many others, and had a terrific track record of appointing minorities. He reached out with his immigration policy (which wasn't popular), and many, many programs. He broke bread with lots of Democrats. What did he get for it? Hatred and more hatred. I agree with Rush Limbaugh. The party won't get anywhere by adopting Democrat policies and playing nice. That doesn't mean we should be nasty, but we shouldn't capitulate either.

138 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:56:38pm

re: #116 Charles

To the people who continue to insist that Sotomayor is a "racist." (Not you.)

The accusation has been made at least a hundred times in our threads about Sotomayor today.

The depth of this meme is stunning.

139 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:57:29pm

re: #133 Occasional Reader

Well, good. If it had been directed at me, I'd have had to accuse you of RACISM! against the Irish/German-American Atheist Race.

/

I was directing at you either bro..Just some previous vile post..
I hope today finds you well

140 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:57:31pm

re: #125 avanti

Hot Air is mocking Obama for not knowing what the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency does exactly while chatting at a hamburger join.Here's the "burgergate" scandal conversation.

"Obama: What do you do Walter?
Walter: I work at, uh, NGA, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Obama: Outstanding, how long you been doing that?
Walter: About six years
Obama: Yea?
Walter: Yes.
Obama: You like it?
Walter: I do, keeps me…
Obama: So explain to me exactly what this National Geospatial…uh…
Walter: Uh, we work with, uh, satellite imagery..
Obama: Right
Walter: [unintelligible] …support systems, so…
Obama: Sounds like good work.
Walter: Enjoy the weekend.
Obama: Appreciate it. "

Oh brother! The man was waiting in line to buy lunch, not giving a speech from the Oval Office. Cut him some slack, Hot Air.

141 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:57:49pm

re: #130 quickjustice

HA! I actually remember that "All In The Family" episode, and that particular scene.

142 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:58:29pm

re: #138 Sharmuta

The depth of this meme is stunning.

she alone knows what she is....what's printed about her and passed on by others is moot

143 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:58:40pm

re: #141 Occasional Reader

So do I. Back when tv was worth watching.

144 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:00:02pm
"I would hope that a wise Latina woman, with the richness of her experiences, would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."


Compares 'wise woman' with 'rich' experience with 'man' who hasn't lived the same (presumably rich in experience) life. Taking the ethnic aspect out of it, it reads like simple self-congratulation. We've never seen that in political life./

145 Stephen Macklin  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:00:44pm

I wish they would be fearless.

I wish they would be fearless in the face of political correctness and call out The One for his socialist agenda.

I wish they would not fear being labeled as racists merely for disagreeing with The One.

I wish they were fearless enough to shake their fists and shout "THIS IS WRONG."

I wish they had the courage to stand for the founding principles of this nation, principles of liberty, justice and the rule law, and declare that they would rather lose an election than see the American people suffer further loss of liberty.

I wish they would stand for something - anything - other than watching what they say and how they say it so as not offend.

146 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:00:54pm

re: #137 DebbieSym

I would feel a lot better about Democrats and Obama — not to mention the media — if someone would acknowledge that Clarence Thomas and Miguel Estrada have inspiring stories as well. Only Republicans mention this, and the media ignores it. They also ignore the fact that Estrada was railroaded. He was a wonderful candidate, but the Dems made damn sure he didn't get anywhere.

OK, so that's the way the game is played. Republicans have to play nice, even when Democrats are nasty. There's a lot of pent-up resentment over the double-standard in this country. Some Republicans are having a hard time doing the "nice" dance yet again. I don't blame them.

The suggestion is, we're not inclusive. Give me a break. Republicans have bent over backwards to be inclusive. Let's not forget that Bush appointed Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, and many, many others, and had a terrific track record of appointing minorities. He reached out with his immigration policy (which wasn't popular), and many, many programs. He broke bread with lots of Democrats. What did he get for it? Hatred and more hatred. I agree with Rush Limbaugh. The party won't get anywhere by adopting Democrat policies and playing nice. That doesn't mean we should be nasty, but we shouldn't capitulate either.

Well, I agree the GOP needs to do its job; We should question Sotomayor closing about her views and positions and nothing else other than a few unoffensive pleasantries. Leave issues related to race alone. We need to be seen as decent and fair-minded here.

147 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:00:57pm

I long for the day when "race" is no longer an issue. Or a crutch.

148 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:01:24pm

re: #25 OldLineTexan does that make DICK cheney, vince mcmahon in this scenario?...................../

149 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:01:52pm

How come Asian Americans do not make "race" an issue?

150 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:02:00pm

re: #147 Racer X

I long for the day when "race" is no longer an issue. Or a crutch.

Isn't that something like green eggs and ham?

151 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:02:06pm

*scratching head*

Gosh, why is the GOP losing the Latino vote......

152 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:02:11pm

re: #143 irongrampa

So do I. Back when tv was worth watching.

I'm gonna git all contrarian n' stuff here and say:

Television is better now than it was then.

(Discuss.)

153 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:02:18pm

re: #149 Racer X

How come Asian Americans do not make "race" an issue?

They make money instead

154 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:02:53pm

re: #149 Racer X

How come Asian Americans do not make "race" an issue?

Racer ... because they are too busy doing homework ...

/

155 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:01pm

re: #116 Charles
well, when BIG RUSH calls someone a racist it must be true............/

156 HelloDare  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:12pm

Attack, kill, poison gas canisters? What exactly are we talking about?

There is nothing wrong with questioning Sotomayor on her "Wise Latina" comment. She deserves to be questioned about it. Doing that will not release poison gas.

Obama has admitted that it was dumb thing to say.

How many people even know she said it?

The point should be made that if any Republican President's nominees had made a comparable comment, they never would have been confirmed.

How many people here would have wanted Justice Roberts appointed if he had said the following:

I would hope that a wise white male with the richness of his experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a Latina woman who hasn't lived that life.

If it is inevitable that she will be approved, Republicans should not fall on their swords trying to defeat her. Okay, that's obvious. But she should be questioned about "Wise Latina" -- if only to let people know she said it.

She should be questioned about a lot of things. Like every nominee. It should be done politely, with decorum.

Calling her a racists is not wise. Even if you think she is.

Here is her Wise Latina comment in context:

Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, a possibility I abhor less or discount less than my colleague Judge Cedarbaum, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging. Justice O'Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases. I am not so sure Justice O'Connor is the author of that line since Professor Resnik attributes that line to Supreme Court Justice Coyle. I am also not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, as Professor Martha Minnow has noted, there can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.

Seems to me, context only makes her statement worse.

Once again, how many people even heard these words? Is this what Obama means by empathy? This is a question that should be asked.

Go Lakers.

157 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:13pm

re: #152 Occasional Reader

American Idol.

158 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:15pm

re: #149 Racer X

How come Asian Americans do not make "race" an issue?

Because they are not very fast.

//

159 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:16pm

re: #145 Stephen Macklin

I wish they would be fearless.

I wish they would be fearless in the face of political correctness and call out The One for his socialist agenda.

I wish they would not fear being labeled as racists merely for disagreeing with The One.

I wish they were fearless enough to shake their fists and shout "THIS IS WRONG."

I wish they had the courage to stand for the founding principles of this nation, principles of liberty, justice and the rule law, and declare that they would rather lose an election than see the American people suffer further loss of liberty.

I wish they would stand for something - anything - other than watching what they say and how they say it so as not offend.

I wish......I wish I were a fish.

/Henry Limpet

160 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:32pm

re: #149 Racer X

How come Asian Americans do not make "race" an issue?

What do you mean by Asian? It's a big landmass. /

161 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:38pm

re: #149 Racer X

How come Asian Americans do not make "race" an issue?

they are too busy doing spelling bee prep

162 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:43pm

re: #116 Charles

Charles -

Her statement, per se, IS TROUBLNG. I fully understand it "in context."

Out of Context - Fuggedabouddit.

That is ALL.

Dr. Shalit -

163 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:03:51pm

re: #126 golf and ski

Roberts and Alito would have been lynched if they hadn't been smarter than their interlocutors. A group of men cannot lynch a woman. As a matter of group dynamics, it causes revulsion in observers. It's a losing strategy.

The GOP should not try to lynch Sotomayor. They should engage her where she, and Obama, are weakest: in their invidious stereotyping of human beings, and in their identity politics.

164 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:04:55pm

re: #149 Racer X

re: #154 JacksonTn

cmu/mit/cal poly.... doin' homework for the hard courses while the rest of us slack off...

165 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:05:04pm

re: #152 Occasional Reader

Where is the foil to LaughIn? Or The Smothers Brothers? Sonny and Cher? Hill Street Blues?

166 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:05:09pm

re: #163 quickjustice

Roberts and Alito would have been lynched if they hadn't been smarter than their interlocutors. A group of men cannot lynch a woman. As a matter of group dynamics, it causes revulsion in observers. It's a losing strategy.

The GOP should not try to lynch Sotomayor. They should engage her where she, and Obama, are weakest: in their invidious stereotyping of human beings, and in their identity politics.

Yeah but the dems tried to lynch Palin? Just saying.

167 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:05:23pm

re: #163 quickjustice

Roberts and Alito would have been lynched if they hadn't been smarter than their interlocutors. A group of men cannot lynch a woman. As a matter of group dynamics, it causes revulsion in observers. It's a losing strategy.

The GOP should not try to lynch Sotomayor. They should engage her where she, and Obama, are weakest: in their invidious stereotyping of human beings, and in their identity politics.

Explain what happened to Hillary.

168 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:05:34pm

Just tuned in the game. Hey Hoops, 90-69 LA - what is up with that?

169 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:06:20pm

re: #124 Charles
that damn google..........gets you every time.................../

170 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:06:36pm

re: #168 The Shadow Do

Just tuned in the game. Hey Hoops, 90-69 LA - what is up with that?

There will be no game 7.

171 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:07:27pm

re: #26 Shiplord Kirel

The irony is that those yelling "RINO!" the loudest are not really purists in terms of Republican tradition and history. Their notions of Republican values go only as far back as Reagan and the shotgun wedding with that mutant media-creature, the religious right.
Barry Goldwater, who essentially invented modern conservatism in this country, would not (and did not) even recognize them as allies.

I could not agree more. Unfortunately those are the inmates now running the lunatic asylum that is the current GOP.

I would absolutely love to see the GOP return to its real conservative roots.

172 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:07:40pm
173 HelloDare  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:07:49pm

If the Republicans crucify Sotomayor, she will only say, "Hey, I can see the Supreme Court from here."

174 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:08:00pm

There is no getting them to grow up, Peggy. They want to be this way.

175 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:08:33pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

There is no getting them to grow up, Peggy. They want to be this way.

Boys will be boys?

176 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:08:44pm

We need more gas, Peggy.

177 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:03pm

re: #172 taxfreekiller

All of South America has been pro commie from 1913 to now, the church in south America the priest and much of the political leadership has been commie, the unions are commie, ,,,, now ask your selves with that in the schools, the government, the church, what do you expect the Latinos who come the U.S. to be more prone to vote for
1. the commie Democrats
2. the Conservative U.S. Constitution types in the Republican Party

like that

gotta love those jesuits...liberation theology wrecked central america

178 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:25pm

It's true I was pissed at Noonan over her comments on Palin. I'm not a good grudge holder, and I still read Noonan. She's written with tact and insight on this one, and it makes nearly as much sense as Krauthammer's piece today on the subject of Sotomayor.

179 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:32pm

re: #145 Stephen Macklin

Good point. The GOP leadership has lost faith in its core principles. We believe in personal liberty and in the dignity and worth of individual human beings, not in a divisive identity politics. That's something to be proud of. It's something worth fighting and dying for. To the GOP leadership: Get up on your hind legs, and fight like men! Our servicemen and servicewomen seem to have no problem with that.

180 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:34pm
181 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:35pm

re: #176 Sharmuta

We need more gas, Peggy.

Pizza and beer usually do it for me.

182 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:41pm

re: #168 The Shadow Do

Just tuned in the game. Hey Hoops, 90-69 LA - what is up with that?

I told you..I picked Denver to win..and it is on hundreds of posts here..I AM ALWAYS WRONG! I told everybody to bet against me tonight..And all that did will be buying BMW Z-4's in the morning.. It's my curse...
/And all those lizards thinking..We'll hoopster just pick one and go against it...It's not that easy..I second guess myself for hours..one more minute doesn't matter..:)

183 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:44pm

Best article I have seen Peggy produce in a LONG time.
I hope the Republican leadership is paying attention.


Go Lakers!

184 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:44pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Oh brother! The man was waiting in line to buy lunch, not giving a speech from the Oval Office. Cut him some slack, Hot Air.

That's about what I'd expect from HotAir, which is like ground zero for Baracknophobia.

185 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:09:51pm

re: #157 irongrampa

American Idol.

"Three's Company".

Your move!

186 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:10:08pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

There is no getting them to grow up, Peggy. They want to be this way.

bunch of fucking amateurs and talking heads wrecking American politics...I hate the MSM with a passion

187 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:10:50pm

re: #183 Floral Giraffe

Best article I have seen Peggy produce in a LONG time.
I hope the Republican leadership is paying attention.

Go Lakers!

bechhh! GO PENS!

188 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:10:52pm

re: #185 Occasional Reader

Harry And The Hendersons.

189 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:10:53pm

re: #185 Occasional Reader

"Three's Company".

Your move!

Oprah!

190 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:11:34pm

re: #188 irongrampa

Harry And The Hendersons.

Um.... that's a movie, not television.

191 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:11:34pm

re: #178 Silvergirl

It's true I was pissed at Noonan over her comments on Palin. I'm not a good grudge holder, and I still read Noonan. She's written with tact and insight on this one, and it makes nearly as much sense as Krauthammer's piece today on the subject of Sotomayor.

Palin was a rookie going nowhere...I don't condone attacking her with such malice tho

192 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:11:36pm

We don't need no water!

193 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:12:11pm

re: #152 Occasional Reader

hill street blues

mash

saint elsewhere

194 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:12:15pm

re: #187 coldwarrior

bechhh! GO PENS!

I admit I did a doubletake on that post. Yikes.

195 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:12:20pm

re: #173 HelloDare

If the Republicans crucify Sotomayor, she will only say, "Hey, I can see the Supreme Court from here."

Very good, Tina, very good. ;)

196 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:12:21pm

re: #166 Nevergiveup

Electoral politics is different from judicial confirmation. It's much rougher. Believe me, those who viciously attacked Palin turned her into a national hero among the conservative base. That's something Palin's enemies will live to regret. Sarah Palin may never be President of the United States, but she'll be a national force to be reckoned with for many years to come.

197 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:12:26pm

re: #125 avanti

Hot Air is mocking Obama for not knowing what the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency does exactly while chatting at a hamburger join.Here's the "burgergate" scandal conversation.

"Obama: What do you do Walter?
Walter: I work at, uh, NGA, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Obama: Outstanding, how long you been doing that?
Walter: About six years
Obama: Yea?
Walter: Yes.
Obama: You like it?
Walter: I do, keeps me…
Obama: So explain to me exactly what this National Geospatial…uh…
Walter: Uh, we work with, uh, satellite imagery..
Obama: Right
Walter: [unintelligible] …support systems, so…
Obama: Sounds like good work.
Walter: Enjoy the weekend.
Obama: Appreciate it. "

NGA is not a particularly well-known agency even within the government, and especially not by that name. It was known as the NIMA (National Imagery and Mapping Agency) until 2003. Its main function is terrain intelligence, mapping, keeping track of changes in the terrain itself and providing data for refining the government's many, many maps. It has also begun commercial marketing of government produced imagery. It is very much a junior partner to the National Reconnaissance Office (which monitors military and related strategic developments) in the satellite intel business.

198 freedomplow  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:12:32pm

re: #121 taxfreekiller

Facts count.

When Pres. Bush put up Estrada for the circuit court of D.C. the Democrats were full bore racist on that, the talking point memos they passed around from Kennedy, Schummer, Biden, Durbin, and the Clintons.
All about how they had to make sure "this right wing Mexican did not get on the court".

The race based party ,,, Democrats, ,,, divide the whites, blacks, mexicans, asian, any way they can, it what the do 100%.

It should be brought up in the confirmation hearings. Use this platform to show the American public the double standard that democrats and the media have toward republican appointed Hispanic judicial nominees.

A real teaching moment opportunity here.

Question is... Will they take it.

199 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:12:50pm

re: #185 Occasional Reader

"Three's Company".

Your move!

Carter Country! Game. Set. Match. It doesn't get much worse than this.

200 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:08pm

re: #190 Occasional Reader

It was a series, (short lived), with John Lithgow as Harry.
Try ALF.

201 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:13pm

re: #148 gtrs

does that make DICK cheney, vince mcmahon in this scenario?...................../

Whatever it takes to fulfill your fantasies.

202 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:32pm

the Muppet Show was the last good thing on television

203 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:34pm

re: #194 Bloodnok

I admit I did a doubletake on that post. Yikes.

ya know...hockey...stanley cup finals

not the penguins of madagascar...although, a great show.

204 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:40pm

re: #199 Truck Monkey

Carter Country! Game. Set. Match. It doesn't get much worse than this.

Dare not insult Victor French.

205 ladycatnip  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:40pm

What do you all think about her 2006 opinion in Hayden v. Pataki - that prison inmates should have the right to vote? In the previous thread #113 J.D. posted a link; I looked it up to make sure it's viable info and yes, it is.

The msm will no doubt keep our attention elsewhere. Her 2006 opinion definitely fits Obama's template to have a supreme with empathy - which is not judging by rule of law, it's judging based upon emotions. God help us.

So, instead of calling her racist, let's focus on this ridiculous opinion. Fair?

206 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:46pm

re: #165 irongrampa

Where is the foil to LaughIn? Or The Smothers Brothers? Sonny and Cher? Hill Street Blues?

On the first two (comedy): "The Simpsons" is far funnier than both of them combined.

On the third: Sonny and Cher wasn't very good.

On the fourth: Hill Street Blues? No longer talking about the 70s or 60s. And anyway, "The Wire" makes "Hill Street Blues" look like a farting contest. (And I *liked* Hill Street Blues, back in the day.)

207 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:13:59pm

re: #202 albusteve

the Muppet Show was the last good thing on television

I wish I could give you a million dings.

208 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:27pm

Mork And Mindy was good, if only for Robin Williams.

209 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:28pm

re: #156 HelloDare

Civilly questioning her about it and calling her a racist are really two different things.

210 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:32pm

re: #178 Silvergirl

I am an excellent grudge-holder....so it all evens out.

Cindy Sheehan, Murtha, FOX news, Soros, Ron Paul, Hollywood, Buchannan, 0bama, Chirac, David Duke, 9/11 Troofers....the white-hot embers of my hate have yet to dim for some of them.

211 wee fury  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:32pm

The scourge of the common people: Professional Politicians and Lawyers.

212 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:34pm
213 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:36pm

re: #207 Sharmuta

I wish I could give you a million dings.

we are all Muppets

214 tedzilla99  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:40pm

Peggy Noonan is yet another Republican who wants the GOP to resemble McCain yet supported Obama in the election instead of choosing her ideal candidate. I really don't understand how she has credibility, unless she's saying what you want to hear. And, anyone who calls O smooth and impeccable is a joke - he's on teleprompter 24/7.

215 jvic  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:43pm

re: #137 DebbieSym

OK, so that's the way the game is played. Republicans have to play nice, even when Democrats are nasty. There's a lot of pent-up resentment over the double-standard in this country. Some Republicans are having a hard time doing the "nice" dance yet again. I don't blame them.

You have a point, but it's not the point that concerns me most.

Right now I'm not worried about Republicans having to do the "nice" dance. I'm worried about them refusing to do the "competent" dance.

216 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:45pm

re: #138 Sharmuta

The depth of this meme is stunning.

May I deconstruct?

I don't think it's a meme, it's the intentional mis-use of the term by Republicans for someone who even mentions race, as a reflection against the Democratic usage that equates racism with a value judgement first, before the details of alleged racism (for instance, to SUPPORT affirmative action) are discused.

Since each side is trying to use the same word in intentionally different ways, it's not really a meme. It's a game, of intentional misunderstanding on both sides. Modern politics.

QED

217 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:45pm

re: #200 irongrampa

It was a series, (short lived), with John Lithgow as Harry.
Try ALF.

Okay, and you're saying it was good?

218 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:49pm

re: #205 ladycatnip

What do you all think about her 2006 opinion in Hayden v. Pataki - that prison inmates should have the right to vote? In the previous thread #113 J.D. posted a link; I looked it up to make sure it's viable info and yes, it is.

The msm will no doubt keep our attention elsewhere. Her 2006 opinion definitely fits Obama's template to have a supreme with empathy - which is not judging by rule of law, it's judging based upon emotions. God help us.

So, instead of calling her racist, let's focus on this ridiculous opinion. Fair?


I mean it's not like she said they could vote 10 times each

/

219 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:14:55pm

re: #213 albusteve

we are all Muppets

My name is Gonzo.

220 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:15:20pm

re: #167 Truck Monkey

Hillary Clinton destroyed herself. Obama was smart enough to give her plenty of rope. She underestimated him, and overestimate her own abilities. She failed to plan for the contingency that occurred: a long primary. She pissed away her money, and was outmaneuvered in the endgame. Loser.

221 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:15:26pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

B...but he's got 'Hoops' right there in his screen name!

222 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:15:36pm

Question: How do you arrange for a visit from the Secret Service?

Answer:

US newspaper ad calls for Obama assassination
Published: 05.29.09, 21:15 / Israel News
A small-town newspaper is apologizing for running a classified advertisement calling for the assassination of President Barack Obama.

Warren Times Observer Publisher John Elchert says the ad appeared Thursday. It read, "May Obama follow in the steps of Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy!" The four presidents were all assassinated. (AP)

223 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:15:37pm

re: #217 Occasional Reader

Um, shit no, that was my bad--sorry.

224 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:15:37pm

re: #216 itellu3times

I've been stunned by the number of people repeating this, and by whom.

225 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:16:01pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

There is no getting them to grow up, Peggy. They want to be this way.

Defeatist? Come on, Sharmuta, don't Republicans have a chance at any of that hope and change?

226 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:16:48pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

My name is Gonzo.

Sgt Floyd Pepper....
giutarist...Electric Mayhem

227 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:17:29pm

George Carlin, before he became old and bitter, was genuinely funny.

228 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:17:43pm

re: #226 albusteve

Sgt Floyd Pepper....
giutarist...Electric Mayhem

phenomenon...do do do doddo...

229 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:18:01pm

re: #225 Silvergirl

Defeatist? Come on, Sharmuta, don't Republicans have a chance at any of that hope and change?

Why would I think that?

230 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:18:01pm

One of the other reasons Cornyn instantly got branded RINO: He endorsed a Republican who can win in Florida (Crist) over the Jeb Bush/Mike Huckabee/ Discovery Institute pick of Marco Rubio.

231 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:18:03pm

re: #222 Nevergiveup

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

232 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:18:19pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

My name is Gonzo.

So if we write a news story about you, will that be Gonzo journalism?

233 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:18:25pm

re: #225 Silvergirl

They do but it's going to take a while and it;s only going to happen when they are ready. In the meanwhile they're going out of their minds and not much can be done about it.

234 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:19:10pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

We don't need no water!

235 TheQuis  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:19:21pm

re: #102 DebbieSym

Everyone keeps bringing up the Ricci case and saying she was racially biased because of her ruling against the 19 firefighters. Three of those firefighters she rule AGAINST were Latino. With Sotomayer being Latina, if she were creating a ruling with her racial prejudices aside wouldn't she rule FOR her Latino Brethren?

236 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:19:32pm

re: #222 Nevergiveup

Warren Times Observer

The Schtoopid is strong with this one...

237 irongrampa  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:19:36pm

re: #222 Nevergiveup

How in hell did that ad ever get published in the FIRST place?

238 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:19:37pm

What I do find is interesting is the media's nonstop "reporting" on the GOP side of things, as if they had any power. No where in any of this is a mention of the fact that our federal government is rapidly going bankrupt and that Democrats fully own that one.

The problem is, the vast majority of voters are apparently too stupid to notice. We have a celebrity president with no executive experience to speak of but the public doesn't seem to mind. In the meantime, the interest rates on Treasury bonds creep to record highs, mortgage rates are slowly following and now gas prices are too.

But we have a celebrity President and that's what we want apparently. We're the American Idol nation now. I'm not sure America is going to be able to recover from this administration when its all said and done.

239 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:19:50pm

re: #234 Sharmuta

We don't need no water!

What are you talking about?

240 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:06pm

re: #232 Occasional Reader

So if we write a news story about you, will that be Gonzo journalism?

you'd need some *items* before the trip to make it gonzo :)

241 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:14pm

This is pretty cool, though I'm sure pious lefty educators would foam at the mouth and fall on the floor in fits of rage at the very mention of it.

NRO Jr, the National Reconnaissance Office kid's page. I love their signature character, Ollie the Satellite.

242 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:29pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

Why would I think that?

Why wouldn't I think that? There's no getting Republicans to grow up? Doomed to tantrum throwing forever?

243 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:29pm

sax and violence...

244 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:36pm

re: #235 TheQuis

Everyone keeps bringing up the Ricci case and saying she was racially biased because of her ruling against the 19 firefighters. Three of those firefighters she rule AGAINST were Latino. With Sotomayer being Latina, if she were creating a ruling with her racial prejudices aside wouldn't she rule FOR her Latino Brethren?

Now you're going to confuse someone.

245 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:43pm

re: #235 TheQuis

Maybe I'm misreading things, but were the three latino firefighters who passed that exam part of the subsequent lawsuit?

246 ladycatnip  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:43pm

#218 Shug

I mean it's not like she said they could vote 10 times each.
/

Whew. I feel so much better about it now.

;-)

247 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:45pm

re: #221 Fenway_Nation

B...but he's got 'Hoops' right there in his screen name!

I have only one thing that makes me feel better..This year when they put the mic in the huddle and the coach screams we need more rebounds!
I think no shit..they pay you 4 million a year to scream that? For 3 million I'll point out to you who to knock on their ass in the block out..

248 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:45pm

re: #238 Phil.

rock and roll!

/

249 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:20:54pm

re: #234 Sharmuta let the mother f--ker burn..............

250 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:21:36pm

re: #238 Phil.

here comes inflation...

251 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:21:41pm

re: #227 irongrampa

George Carlin, before he became old and bitter, was genuinely funny.

Carlin was at his best when a Democrat was in office - the late 70's and most of the 90's.

252 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:22:00pm

re: #247 HoosierHoops
hoops; i won't be needing those 8 1/2 points; you can have them back.........

253 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:22:09pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

I've been stunned by the number of people repeating this, and by whom.

But exactly what do you think that someone like Newt really means by it, when he says it? That Sotomayor wants to have a plantation with white men picking cotton in the hot sun? I really don't think anyone believes that, not even a little bit.

It's kind of Newt being gonzo, if we're talking gonzo.

I guess the word is dangerous, there are some out there who here the word in public statements by a prominent speaker, and do interpret it as above, but heck, let's not us make that mistake.

254 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:22:12pm

Dumb and getting dumber.....
Glenn Beck: Hey, what if a million people stopped paying their taxes in protest?

This'll be a big hit with the Tea Party crowd. I see it as anti-Americanism.

255 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:22:14pm

re: #249 gtrs

A post without mention of DICK cheney?

Did Noonan convince you to grow up?

/damn, she's better'n I thought

256 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:22:36pm

Floyd Pepper

257 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:22:41pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

They do but it's going to take a while and it;s only going to happen when they are ready. In the meanwhile they're going out of their minds and not much can be done about it.

No coaxing along? Everyone just sits and watches the show for entertainment value?

258 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:23:08pm

re: #243 albusteve

Pure Genius.

259 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:23:26pm

re: #252 gtrs

hoops; i won't be needing those 8 1/2 points; you can have them back.........

I'm a Laker fan, but who are these guys?

Denver must have picked up some bad sushi when visiting LA.

260 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:23:43pm

re: #219 Sharmuta

My name is Gonzo.

Dang. I wanted to be Gonzo. Can I be Ralph as a second choice?

261 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:24:13pm

re: #252 gtrs

hoops; i won't be needing those 8 1/2 points; you can have them back.........

Let me see..There are 13 knots in the noose right?
*wink*
Good game by the Lakers...
Arrrhhhhh!

262 jvic  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:24:19pm

re: #216 itellu3times

Since each side is trying to use the same word in intentionally different ways, it's not really a meme. It's a game, of intentional misunderstanding on both sides. Modern politics.

That makes sense if both sides have hidden agendas that would lose them the election if discussed openly. So they try to appropriate the emotional content of words without being held accountable by their meanings.

263 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:24:40pm

re: #240 coldwarrior

you'd need some *items* before the trip to make it gonzo :)

A Gerber Mini-Magnum... a crate of fresh grapefruit... mescaline and laughing gas...

264 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:24:41pm

re: #259 itellu3times

I'm a Laker fan, but who are these guys?

Denver must have picked up some bad sushi when visiting LA.

they sent their bad sushi to Detroit in exchange for Chauncey

265 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:24:44pm

re: #234 Sharmuta

We don't need no water!

You know I'm quite a cynic with the topic of the GOP future. The saving grace here is that it seems to be that the congressional GOP members have not taken the bait from the pundits such as Limbaugh, Gingrich or the more extremist and irrational elements as found on the blog.

They will have their chance to question and speak during the hearings regarding Sotomayor but hopefully cooler heads will prevail and a general level of common decency is maintained.

Others make the argument that they should reflect the Democrats in these matter and go at this in a cut-throat manner. That would have a negative effect and for that matter I don't want any part of those tactics. Resorting to "nirther like" behavior would be bad form.

266 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:24:44pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Dumb and getting dumber.....
Glenn Beck: Hey, what if a million people stopped paying their taxes in protest?

This'll be a big hit with the Tea Party crowd. I see it as anti-Americanism.

anti taxism...big difference...the feds are out of control

267 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:25:22pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

A commenter on that thread is eager to show some lemmings off the cliff:


It would make more of an impact (and be entirely legal) if a million productive citizens threw a “Job Party,” that is, quit their jobs. Not only would the government lose Income Tax, they would lose SS tax, Medicare, and all the taxes and fees you would have spent on luxuries. A little prepwork and lifestyle-adjusting is all it would take to scare the pork out of politicians.

Too bad Republicans are all talk and zero walk.

268 TheQuis  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:25:28pm

re: #156 HelloDare

Ummmm Did you read the entire essay or atleast the two pages preceding this fifth page. They do give context for the entire discussion that she's talking about with Judge Cederbaum.

"Because when a case comes before me involving, let’s say, someone who is an immigrant — and we get an awful lot of immigration cases and naturalization cases — I can’t help but think of my own ancestors, because it wasn’t that long ago when they were in that position… When I get a case about discrimination, I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender. And I do take that into account."

If you read her entire piece you'll see that what she said isn't much different than what he's saying.

269 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:25:35pm

re: #259 itellu3times not shocked that the lakers are going to win BUT i did think the nuggets would be a tougher out; oh well; GO MAGIC!

270 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:25:54pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

A Gerber Mini-Magnum... a crate of fresh grapefruit... mescaline and laughing gas...

*big smile* YEP...

nothing more depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge.

271 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:25:56pm

re: #230 Thanos

One of the other reasons Cornyn instantly got branded RINO: He endorsed a Republican who can win in Florida (Crist) over the Jeb Bush/Mike Huckabee/ Discovery Institute pick of Marco Rubio.

I sent Cornyn, my Senator, a pat on the back letter today. I had not thought of him seriously for higher office until now.

272 Scion9  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:25:58pm

re: #216 itellu3times

It's not entirely intentional misuse either. Not everyone views the same things as racist. Opposing Affirmative Action is perceived as racist, in your own example.

White racists of course do oppose Affirmative Action on their grounds of their bigotry, but that doesn't negate the fact that there are people with values that view any quota based, non-color blind, preferential treatment as racist. The term 'racism' and what people view as racist is not something that our society agrees on at all.

273 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:26:09pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Dumb and getting dumber.....
Glenn Beck: Hey, what if a million people stopped paying their taxes in protest?

This'll be a big hit with the Tea Party crowd. I see it as anti-Americanism.

I see passing 787 billion dollar spending bills without having read them first as anti-American. I see government takeover of private companies to be anti-American. I see government shakedown of bondholders and the evisceration of contract to be anti-American. I consider putting America on a course towards bankruptcy to be very anti-American.

On the other hand, protesting these things - not so much.

274 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:26:34pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Dumb and getting dumber.....
Glenn Beck: Hey, what if a million people stopped paying their taxes in protest?

This'll be a big hit with the Tea Party crowd. I see it as anti-Americanism.

Is it wrong to think that Glen Beck belongs in the loony bin?

275 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:26:37pm

re: #242 Silvergirl

Why wouldn't I think that? There's no getting Republicans to grow up? Doomed to tantrum throwing forever?

They're not going to grow up until they want to. When anyone who doesn't follow the script speaks out now, they're a RINO. So now we have to follow group-think? These are not mature behaviors.

Don't think Sotomayor is a racist? You're a RINO!
Don't like tea parties? RINO!
Accept evolution? RINO!

Name calling and shunning- immature, and I don't see where it will end.

276 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:26:49pm

re: #197 Shiplord Kirel

NGA is not a particularly well-known agency even within the government, and especially not by that name. It was known as the NIMA (National Imagery and Mapping Agency) until 2003. Its main function is terrain intelligence, mapping, keeping track of changes in the terrain itself and providing data for refining the government's many, many maps. It has also begun commercial marketing of government produced imagery. It is very much a junior partner to the National Reconnaissance Office (which monitors military and related strategic developments) in the satellite intel business.

Thanks for that, I had no clue what they did. I wonder if any one person know what every agency in this big ass government does.

277 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:26:52pm

re: #257 Silvergirl

I tried coaxing but it doesn't work very well. Most people can't be persuaded. They are hell bent on continuing the insanity. This July 4th many conservatives are going to spend the day at Ron Paul rallies with Truthers, and White Nationalists. Many know what they're doing, others don't care. There's nothing that can be said to stop them.

278 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:27:28pm

avoid the anti groupthink groupthink !

279 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:28:27pm

re: #265 Gus 802

Correction:

...such as Limbaugh, Gingrich or the more extremist and irrational elements as found on the blogs.

Blogs -- plural

280 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:28:36pm

re: #265 Gus 802

The saving grace here is that it seems to be that the congressional GOP members have not taken the bait

Two ex congresscritters have, Gingrich and Tancredo.

281 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:28:46pm

Hoosier, tell the truth...do you look anything like the birdman?

282 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:29:13pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Is it wrong to think that Glen Beck belongs in the loony bin?

he's an entertainer exploring his newly expanded boundaries...he will settle somewhere, soon, maybe...

283 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:29:37pm

re: #262 jvic

That makes sense if both sides have hidden agendas that would lose them the election if discussed openly. So they try to appropriate the emotional content of words without being held accountable by their meanings.

Well sure, "if". That might even apply on the Democratic side, and in another reflection or projection, they will probably think the Republicans are doing the same. But Republican "racism" is mostly being color-blind, race-blind, that is, the Democrats call that evil and bad and "racist". Is this a secret Republican agenda, to be color-blind?

Anyway, I personally support some affirmative action, I'm afraid in this day and age, a real race-blind system will not produce the outcome-based results that we need for social stability. Maybe there's some justice in it, I don't know about that, at least I don't support it on that basis.

284 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:29:39pm

re: #278 Shug

avoid the anti groupthink groupthink !

Thinking for yourself is a liability.

285 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:01pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

He has a few screws loose. I don't think this is all money making shtick. He's quite insane but even he doesn't believe every thing he says. He'll continue to pay his taxes, he's just hoping that other people won't.

286 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:03pm

re: #270 coldwarrior

*big smile* YEP...

nothing more depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge.

When "White Rabbit" gets to its climax ("reee-MEM-BAAAHHH... what the DOORMOUSE SAIIIID..."), I want you to throw the tape deck right into the middle of this thread, and electrocute me. Do you promise you'll do that?

287 TheQuis  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:08pm

re: #245 Fenway_Nation

Yes. I think what has been lost in much of this discussion of this case is the lawsuit wasn't filed by the firefighters who flunked, it was the firefighters who scored well. The basis for her decision of in this case is that the laws and legal precedents that said the state had the right to set aside the results of the exam if they didn't have a high enough percentage of an ethinic minority group. The city decided to set aside the results.(I don't agree with what they did, but considering New Haven is 42% AA there would have been political hell to pay from their constituents)

288 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:25pm

re: #238 Phil.

What I do find is interesting is the media's nonstop "reporting" on the GOP side of things, as if they had any power. No where in any of this is a mention of the fact that our federal government is rapidly going bankrupt and that Democrats fully own that one.

The problem is, the vast majority of voters are apparently too stupid to notice. We have a celebrity president with no executive experience to speak of but the public doesn't seem to mind. In the meantime, the interest rates on Treasury bonds creep to record highs, mortgage rates are slowly following and now gas prices are too.

But we have a celebrity President and that's what we want apparently. We're the American Idol nation now. I'm not sure America is going to be able to recover from this administration when its all said and done.

Does anyone besides me remember when Republicans mocked the Democrats when they blamed "stupid" voters for their losses? I think The Republicans called the Democrats elitists because of the stupid voter line.

289 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:30pm

re: #284 Sharmuta

Thinking for yourself is a liability.

that's what I think

290 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:31pm

re: #253 itellu3times

But exactly what do you think that someone like Newt really means by it, when he says it? That Sotomayor wants to have a plantation with white men picking cotton in the hot sun? I really don't think anyone believes that, not even a little bit.

It's kind of Newt being gonzo, if we're talking gonzo.

I guess the word is dangerous, there are some out there who here the word in public statements by a prominent speaker, and do interpret it as above, but heck, let's not us make that mistake.

We don't have to ask Newt or Rush. There are people here promoting this.

291 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:41pm

re: #280 Thanos

Two ex congresscritters have, Gingrich and Tancredo.


[Video]

Right, ex congresscritters. Let's just hope no one pulls a stunt like Tancredo did in this video.

292 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:30:43pm

The worse thing about Tancredo, he didn't research a bit and is going to get quite a bit of smackdown over his mistakes (confusing old student group with the NCLR, etc) they will also be dredging up who he is in bed with, and that's an ugly cast.

293 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:31:33pm

re: #284 Sharmuta

Thinking for yourself is a liability.

Spare me. This administration was elected because of nothing less than an extensive cult of personality and nothing more.

How's that working out for the country again?

294 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:32:24pm

re: #281 The Shadow Do

Hoosier, tell the truth...do you look anything like the birdman?

LOL
I played point..I wish I had his length...

295 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:32:29pm

re: #267 jaunte

Yeah, I just got around to reading the comments on that thread. Very much not good at all.

296 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:32:30pm

re: #253 itellu3times

That Sotomayor wants to have a plantation with white men picking cotton in the hot sun?

I'll admit... if Sotomayor really looked more like J.Lo (to follow Schlussel's comparison), that idea might have a certain appeal for me...

297 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:32:40pm

re: #272 Scion9

It's not entirely intentional misuse either. Not everyone views the same things as racist. Opposing Affirmative Action is perceived as racist, in your own example.

White racists of course do oppose Affirmative Action on their grounds of their bigotry, but that doesn't negate the fact that there are people with values that view any quota based, non-color blind, preferential treatment as racist. The term 'racism' and what people view as racist is not something that our society agrees on at all.

I think we're agreeing that there are a couple of different definitions in use.

I'm not sure that Newt, say, is opposing any and all affirmative action, though one might disagree on one or another particular case, and might even stretch the point to make politics out of nothing. I nattered on about this already in #283.

298 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:33:28pm

re: #284 Sharmuta

well..... it isn't such a big deal if you think the right things......

299 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:33:32pm

re: #1 Charles

Countdown to someone calling Noonan a RINO because she criticized Sarah Palin ... 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

Not Rino, but she showed the type of misogyny I don't like. The political kind. I grew up in a time where Republicans were liberal and conservative.

SotoMeyer appears to be a member of La Raza. I would like to hear from her on this. I consider that bad. Though it is probably on par with the Obama/Ayers relationship.

She does though seem to have found her college years challenging but inspiring. Compared to Michelle Obama, Sotomeyer has the better attitude.

I read the one Avery Doninger ruling posted and she didn't seem to be a judicial activist in it. I thought the decision was wrong as I saw it.

This is what the confirmation process is for. To ask the tough questions. Let's not make it a rush to crisis like the bailout. Ask all the questions, get all the answers.

Hispanic people I believe have a lot of the same values as Republicans. But the MSM PR image is bigger then that belief. Republicans seem afraid to take on bias in the media.

300 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:33:42pm

re: #293 Phil.

Spare me. This administration was elected because of nothing less than an extensive cult of personality and nothing more.

How's that working out for the country again?

Group-think is bad, so you want me to engage in right-wing group-think?

301 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:33:46pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

I tried coaxing but it doesn't work very well. Most people can't be persuaded. They are hell bent on continuing the insanity. This July 4th many conservatives are going to spend the day at Ron Paul rallies with Truthers, and White Nationalists. Many know what they're doing, others don't care. There's nothing that can be said to stop them.

Maybe not, but let people die trying. Noonan's article was heading in the right direction, but the philosophy coming through from your posts is that she's wasting her time. You and Sharmuta are sounding so bleak on the subject, which I grant can be quite bleak. But all the "nothing can be done," to sum it up, is defeatist, no? Sometimes a voice a reason occasionally breaks though the clamor.

302 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:34:05pm

re: #286 Occasional Reader

When "White Rabbit" gets to its climax ("reee-MEM-BAAAHHH... what the DOORMOUSE SAIIIID..."), I want you to throw the tape deck right into the middle of this thread, and electrocute me. Do you promise you'll do that?

lenmee get this straight...when this thread peaks, you want me to throw this tape deck into the the thread...and electrocute you ...ooookay...here comes the rabbit...

303 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:34:09pm

re: #294 HoosierHoops

LOL
I played point..I wish I had his length...

and the look!

304 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:34:23pm

re: #283 itellu3times

Well sure, "if".

If you can keep your head while all about you
are losing theirs, and blaming it on you
Then you obviously don't understand
the seriousness of the situation

-Rudyard Kipling (modified by my dad)

305 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:34:57pm

Electric Mayhem...hey, it's FNDT

306 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:35:01pm

re: #288 Flyers1974

Does anyone besides me remember when Republicans mocked the Democrats when they blamed "stupid" voters for their losses? I think The Republicans called the Democrats elitists because of the stupid voter line.

Flyers, ask me if I care. We don't have time for Teh Stoopid but that is certainly what we have now.

Image: obama-budget-deficit.jpg
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
[Link: www.google.com...]

Anyone that continues to support this administration deserves my mock and scorn. The pain comes later, you were warned now.

307 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:35:16pm

re: #301 Silvergirl

Sharm and I have been fighting the battle daily here for quite some time. Maybe were jaded or maybe we're hardened veterans. It is what it is.

308 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:35:32pm

re: #290 Sharmuta

We don't have to ask Newt or Rush. There are people here promoting this.

Well, one of them was me, if you mean people using the word, but I was using it as I attempted to describe. If that's too much, well, I guess I'd better stop, in fact, I guess I will stop in any case, I'm not promoting anything.

309 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:35:48pm

re: #302 coldwarrior

lenmee get this straight...when this thread peaks, you want me to throw this tape deck into the the thread...and electrocute you ...ooookay...here comes the rabbit...

Do you want the Mace? DO YOU?!

310 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:35:56pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Dumb and getting dumber.....
Glenn Beck: Hey, what if a million people stopped paying their taxes in protest?

What would happen: the country's economy would collapse. Hospitals would close. Schools would close. The entire government would come to a halt.

Oh yeah, that sounds wonderful.

But that's probably what that moron Glenn Beck wants.

311 freedomplow  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:36:15pm

I'll say it again... Use the conformation hearings to your advantage.

Point out the hypocrisy and bitch about all of the out of control spending.

A lot of people will be watching.

312 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:36:21pm

re: #300 Sharmuta

Group-think is bad, so you want me to engage in right-wing group-think?

Not at all, I just don't need lectures about it after this past election, which was an exercise in group think of the highest order. Groupthink sucks no matter how you slice it.

313 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:36:31pm

LAKERS, BABY!

314 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:36:36pm

re: #292 Thanos did you catch tancredo after the recent big fossil find? he basically said that the earth itself is only 10,000 years old or so

315 rain of lead  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:36:52pm

How the Supreme court hearing will occur.

Repub. " Good Morning Ms Sotomayor"

Dems and MSM " OMG they are crucifying her, being mean,hateful and unfair....this must stop RIGHT NOW!"

you know I'm right

316 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:36:59pm

Lakers won!

317 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:37:11pm

re: #294 HoosierHoops
what? not his hair...............

318 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:37:15pm

re: #311 freedomplow

I'll say it again... Use the conformation hearings to your advantage.

Point out the hypocrisy and bitch about all of the out of control spending.

A lot of people will be watching.

You did that on purpose, didn't you?

Heh.

319 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:37:36pm

re: #312 Phil.

Not at all, I just don't need lectures about it after this past election, which was an exercise in group think of the highest order. Groupthink sucks no matter how you slice it.

So why should the right engage in it? Or are you intentionally missing my point?

320 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:37:38pm

IMHO the R party is over over over.
I go to a bar every friday night, with friends.

The mood there is one of absolute pissedness at the powers that be for the economic mess the country is in. People are hurting. They know that they have been done bad by the people at the top. And for better or worse, the Republicans are identified with the fat cats. The R party is going to be shut out for a long time.

And if we want any of the sensible, conservative ideas to have any influence, they will have to be put forward by some new party.

321 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:37:51pm

OT -

Good Lord. Nightline is going to do a segment on Arianna Huffington tonight, calling her, "The Queen of New Media".

/i'm going to hurl

322 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:37:56pm

Let's all condemn groupthink

323 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:11pm

re: #310 Charles

But that's probably what that moron Glenn Beck wants.

Sure. It would bring on the crazy Apocalypse and revolution he's been babbling about. He'd love it.

324 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:16pm

re: #309 Occasional Reader

Do you want the Mace? DO YOU?!

the sad part, occ.reader...i have had nights like that, often.

where did you get that pineal gland?

325 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:17pm

I gotta give Denver props - they played a helluva series. Billups and Carmello did not have a good game tonight. It seems like the Lakers figured out how to avoid the birdman and got it done.

Bring on the Cavs!

326 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:28pm

I went to an Indiana HS so small that at 6'2 and a skinny 160 lbs, I played power forward. LOL!

Could not dribble, could not do anything but provide 5 fouls and the rare corner shot. Coach made me appreciate the nuance of the cheap foul. I am hated in many a small town in NE IN.

327 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:29pm

re: #322 Shug

Let's all condemn groupthink

You all go ahead, and then I'll say "no". ;p

328 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:37pm

re: #322 Shug

My group says no.

329 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:44pm

re: #322 Shug

Let's all condemn groupthink

Bravo!

330 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:38:49pm

re: #327 Sharmuta

You all go ahead, and then I'll say "no". ;p

I love a rebel

331 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:04pm

re: #311 freedomplow

I'll say it again... Use the conformation hearings to your advantage.

Point out the hypocrisy and bitch about all of the out of control spending.

A lot of people will be watching.

good call

332 bungie  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:12pm

re: #1 Charles

re: #71 tradewind

Noonan says something so ridiculous here I am laughing.... how well thought out BHO's staff's moves are?
Uh, yeah, let's take A/F One for a spin over NYC and not tell anyone.

I've always found Peggy Noonan's writing cloying. She is a New York elitist, hence the fascination with the "sophisticated" Obama. I guess she has just blocked on all the moves of Obama's staff that haven't fit her paradigm.

I am a conservative but I like Sotomayor better than Noonan. Sotomayor seems smart and energetic. Noonan is whiny and dysthymic. Of course Sotomayor is a lefty, what did everyone think Obama would do? It doesn't change the court, she's a liberal replacing a liberal.

Also, I have to give Sotomayor a pass on her comment about Hispanic women, while I have no opinions on ethnicity or race, I do secretly suspect all women are wiser than men (just kidding. . .sort of).

333 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:16pm

re: #320 Ojoe

IMHO the R party is over over over.
I go to a bar every friday night, with friends.

The mood there is one of absolute pissedness at the powers that be for the economic mess the country is in. People are hurting. They know that they have been done bad by the people at the top. And for better or worse, the Republicans are identified with the fat cats. The R party is going to be shut out for a long time.

And if we want any of the sensible, conservative ideas to have any influence, they will have to be put forward by some new party.

Like the Whigs?

Speaking of the Whigs, have they run any candidates in any race yet?

334 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:29pm

re: #322 Shug

Let's all condemn groupthink

I'm into groupdrink myself

335 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:31pm

re: #304 Occasional Reader

If you can keep your head while all about you
are losing theirs, and blaming it on you
Then you obviously don't understand
the seriousness of the situation

-Rudyard Kipling (modified by my dad)

Else yours is the hysteria and everything thats in it,
And what is more, you'll be a loon, my son.

/have to have an "else" clause

336 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:34pm

Well, the Clinton/Bush conversation this evening turned out to be a love fest. Two men that seemed to respect each others service.

Bush/Clinton.

337 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:34pm

re: #333 Ward Cleaver

Like the Whigs?

Speaking of the Whigs, have they run any candidates in any race yet?

trafficant ?

338 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:51pm

re: #310 Charles

But that's probably what that moron Glenn Beck wants.


Probably. Ron Paul is pretty honest about his desire to destroy America to resurrect it as a libertarian utopia. Kucinich has similar plans from the left. Most average people who are now advocating Paulian economics have no clue what they are designed to accomplish. Ron Paul, to his credit, is quite honest about it.

339 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:54pm

re: #328 jaunte

my group would all agree....

340 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:39:55pm

re: #303 The Shadow Do

and the look!

Now what a second! LOL
If I was going for just the look..I think..And this is just a dude thing so don't trip..I think the most handsome guy in Ball is Dwight Howard..And he has a smile that can light up a stadium..Just a stud..They don't call him superman for nothing

341 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:20pm

re: #319 Sharmuta

So why should the right engage in it? Or are you intentionally missing my point?

I just said no one shouldn't engage in it. I'm just tired of lectures to the conservative side. We have an out of control government that is bankrupting my country and turning my currency into funny money. And doing so very rapidly.

I'm not the problem here.

342 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:22pm

re: #337 Shug

trafficant ?

That's the Wigs.

343 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:45pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Is it wrong to think that Glen Beck belongs in the loony bin?

If thinking Glenn Beck is a lunatic is wrong, then I don't wanna be right.

344 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:51pm

re: #342 Ward Cleaver

That's the Wigs.

oh

right

345 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:51pm

re: #296 Occasional Reader

I'll admit... if Sotomayor really looked more like J.Lo (to follow Schlussel's comparison), that idea might have a certain appeal for me...

Well sure, for you, cuz you'd look good out there!
/

346 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:51pm

re: #339 WindHorse

My group is full of dissidents, but I go along with them.

347 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:53pm

re: #334 albusteve

I'm into groupdrink myself

Me, I'm into groupsex.

WHAT?!

348 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:53pm

When taxes were patriotic.....

349 jacksontn  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:40:57pm

re: #305 albusteve

Electric Mayhem...hey, it's FNDT


[Video]

albusteve ... hey, babe ... take a walk on the wild side ...

350 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:41:06pm

re: #306 Phil.

So Phil, who do you think here is supporting Obama?

351 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:41:10pm

OK, my head is officially spinning.

Is it the left or the right who are out to destroy America?

352 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:41:11pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Dumb and getting dumber.....
Glenn Beck: Hey, what if a million people stopped paying their taxes in protest?


That million people would have to have no earthly idea of all the powers of the IRS to make their lives a living hell.

353 HelloDare  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:41:13pm

re: #316 Floral Giraffe

24 of 24 free throws.

354 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:41:55pm

james "big game" worthy BEST player on a carolina championship team with a freshman starter by the name of michael jordan

355 Dar ul Harbarian  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:02pm

re: #320 Ojoe

IMHO the R party is over over over.
I go to a bar every friday night, with friends.

The mood there is one of absolute pissedness at the powers that be for the economic mess the country is in. People are hurting. They know that they have been done bad by the people at the top. And for better or worse, the Republicans are identified with the fat cats. The R party is going to be shut out for a long time.

And if we want any of the sensible, conservative ideas to have any influence, they will have to be put forward by some new party.


The Republicans will probably become a fringe minority like they were during Roosevelt's administration. Meanwhile the Democrats will milk the nation for votes and power.

Just going to have to hunker down for a decade or two.

356 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:04pm

I wish I could go out to a bar with friends on Friday nights. Oh well, maybe when the nest empties. I'll be ready for the rest home then.

357 Last Mohican  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:11pm

re: #302 coldwarrior

I just tuned in to this thread, and I admit that I haven't read all of the comments. Nevertheless, I fail to see how electrocuting rabbits is going to help the GOP in the next election, and frankly it seems pretty cruel to me.

358 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:14pm

re: #325 Racer X

I gotta give Denver props - they played a helluva series. Billups and Carmello did not have a good game tonight. It seems like the Lakers figured out how to avoid the birdman and got it done.

Bring on the Cavs!

Wasn't THAT special!

359 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:16pm

re: #351 Racer X

OK, my head is officially spinning.

Is it the left or the right who are out to destroy America?

Both?

360 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:28pm

re: #336 avanti

Well, the Clinton/Bush conversation this evening turned out to be a love fest. Two men that seemed to respect each others service.

Bush/Clinton.

Yes, it does read like a lovefest.

I was also wondering what the other regrets were for Clinton:

Asked why he didn't stop the killing in the Rwanda genocide when he was president in 1994, Clinton said he had no excuse or defense.

"It's one of the two or three greatest regrets of my presidency," Clinton said.

361 doubter4444  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:35pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

I can't agree more with Noonan on this point. I'm very tired of seeing false dichotomies presented in our ranks. It's a logical fallacy, and harmful to our politics. It's a turn-off to be presented with such a false choice.

Really good point, I think.
More and more, that's the only answer: With us or Against us. Black or White. Everything is this zero sum, binary choice.
The the democrats have taken advantage of the perception there is no ground to give on many issues, and beat it like a drum. And it's working.

362 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:39pm

re: #341 Phil.

I just said no one shouldn't engage in it. I'm just tired of lectures to the conservative side. We have an out of control government that is bankrupting my country and turning my currency into funny money. And doing so very rapidly.

I'm not the problem here.

Excuse me- you're the one who said "spare me" when I mentioned independent thinking was a liability, and it is when one displays it and is immediately called a RINO for it.

If thinking for myself makes me a RINO, then I'm a fucking RINO.

363 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:39pm

re: #345 itellu3times

Well sure, for you, cuz you'd look good out there!
/

And then she'd ride up on a horse, wearing thigh-high riding boots, and then maybe whip me (lightly) for not working hard enough, and then bring me back to the plantation house for further punishment, and...

sorry, where was I?

364 kingkenrod  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:45pm

Protesting by not paying your taxes is stupid beyond belief.

Most people have their taxes withheld and don't ever control their tax payments...how exactly are they going to refuse to pay their taxes? Ask for a huge refund? Good luck with that.

Those people (like the self-employed) who do pay in large quarterly payments would be dealt with pretty quickly or live like fugitives. Good luck with that.

And consider the other side of the coin: what if lefty nuts decided they didn't want to support the military-industrial complex? No money for nukes?

365 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:42:49pm

J.D.!

366 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:08pm

re: #205 ladycatnip

I'm in favor of letting felons vote. Society is over felonized when a college students speeding ticket is turned into a felony for non payment. Experience.

Too many Nifongs running around out there.

Prostitution legal
Pot legal

Just to save on law enforcement budgets.

Hard drug dealers to death row.

367 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:09pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Probably. Ron Paul is pretty honest about his desire to destroy America to resurrect it as a libertarian utopia. Kucinich has similar plans from the left. Most average people who are now advocating Paulian economics have no clue what they are designed to accomplish. Ron Paul, to his credit, is quite honest about it.

Maybe that is the appeal of Ron Paul. No spin and a kindly demeanor. . No need to spin when nobody knows what you mean anyway.

368 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:10pm

re: #286 Occasional Reader

When "White Rabbit" gets to its climax ("reee-MEM-BAAAHHH... what the DOORMOUSE SAIIIID..."), I want you to throw the tape deck right into the middle of this thread, and electrocute me. Do you promise you'll do that?

The part where the rabbit bites off his own head, ...

369 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:26pm

re: #333 Ward Cleaver

Not yet, but we're working on it. I'm on an historical review board though, which is appropriate for an historical party.

I really do think the R's are looking at a political wilderness at this point.

Too bad, because I liked Palin.

370 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:28pm

Be back later tonight. I think.

371 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:33pm

re: #288 Flyers1974

Does anyone besides me remember when Republicans mocked the Democrats when they blamed "stupid" voters for their losses? I think The Republicans called the Democrats elitists because of the stupid voter line.

I remember, and the Republicans were right to mock the Dems for that.

The GOP now is essentially where the Democratic leadership was from 2000 til (at least) 2005-- a total shambles, where people would rather engage in pitching tantrums rather than getting their act together and revitalizing their party.

372 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:44pm

re: #336 avanti

Well, the Clinton/Bush conversation this evening turned out to be a love fest. Two men that seemed to respect each others service.

Bush/Clinton.

While both men received polite applause from the audience at Toronto's convention center, a couple hundred protesters demonstrated outside. The organizers declined to say how much the men were paid for the event, called "A conversation with Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton." Ticket prices sold for C$200 to C$2,500.

Bush joked about the speaking fees, which are normally lucrative for former presidents.

"President Clinton and I used to believe in free speech," Bush said before pausing. "So thanks very much for coming — we are glad you're here."


Pretty good.

373 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:44pm

Beck is about as stupid as Alex Jones. Maybe they should do a show together on Fox.

374 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:43:53pm

BBL

375 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:06pm

re: #363 Occasional Reader

And then she'd ride up on a horse, wearing thigh-high riding boots, and then maybe whip me (lightly) for not working hard enough, and then bring me back to the plantation house for further punishment, and...

sorry, where was I?

OR ... to the cold shower with you ... !

376 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:14pm

re: #352 J.D.
glenn bleck: the tea-baggers PIED PIPER........................../

377 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:15pm

re: #359 Ward Cleaver

Both?

Neither. It is all about a power grab. And with power comes the money. Same shit, different mascot.

I am now completely sick of politics.

378 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:27pm

re: #369 Ojoe

Not yet, but we're working on it. I'm on an historical review board though, which is appropriate for an historical party.

I really do think the R's are looking at a political wilderness at this point.

Too bad, because I liked Palin.

Me too. But she's damaged goods. The MSM and SNL saw to that.

379 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:29pm

re: #373 Ward Cleaver

Beck is about as stupid as Alex Jones. Maybe they should do a show together on Fox.


Isn't Jones on his show already?

I don't watch him any more

380 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:30pm

re: #349 jacksontn

sugar plumb fairy and the rest....heh

381 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:33pm

re: #352 J.D.

Of course the millionaires with tax consultants won't do it, they're hoping to convince "normal" people to do it for them. They have too much to lose.

382 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:35pm

re: #373 Ward Cleaver

Beck is about as stupid as Alex Jones. Maybe they should do a show together on Fox.

Don't give them any ideas!

383 Altermite  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:52pm

A few days ago I had dinner with an ex-girlfriend's father. Long story. Somehow the topic got onto voting, and he mentioned that his voting habits had almost nothing to do with policy, but on making sure the government could do as little as possible by voting to preserve the power balance between parties. If there was a republican legislature, he voted democrat, and vice-versa.

He felt that it was the only realistic way to ensure as small a government as possible. A party with serious power would simply create a bunch of programs that they liked, whereas the balance would ensure that each party could effectively block most effective programs.

I thought that was a smart idea.

384 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:44:52pm

re: #351 Racer X

OK, my head is officially spinning.

Is it the left or the right who are out to destroy America?

Could be both, just from different sides of the spectrum. There is a big ass hole in the middle full of screaming Americans.

385 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:45:03pm

re: #361 doubter4444

Really good point, I think.
More and more, that's the only answer: With us or Against us. Black or White. Everything is this zero sum, binary choice.
The the democrats have taken advantage of the perception there is no ground to give on many issues, and beat it like a drum. And it's working.

I have to wonder if part of it is due to the ridicule "nuance" was given thanks to John Kerry. We can't be nuanced now- it has to be false dichotomies.

386 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:45:06pm

re: #379 Shug

Isn't Jones on his show already?

I don't watch him any more

Got me; I've never watched him.

387 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:45:41pm

re: #365 Ward Cleaver

J.D.!

WARD!

388 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:45:41pm

re: #360 Silvergirl

#2 keeping his zipper up.

389 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:46:11pm

re: #351 Racer X

OK, my head is officially spinning.

Is it the left or the right who are out to destroy America?

are they politicians?...do they suck up to the MSM?....are they on the federal payrole?...if so probably, directly or inadvertantly

390 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:46:13pm

re: #364 kingkenrod

Protesting by not paying your taxes is stupid beyond belief.

Most people have their taxes withheld and don't ever control their tax payments...how exactly are they going to refuse to pay their taxes? Ask for a huge refund? Good luck with that.

Those people (like the self-employed) who do pay in large quarterly payments would be dealt with pretty quickly or live like fugitives. Good luck with that.

And consider the other side of the coin: what if lefty nuts decided they didn't want to support the military-industrial complex? No money for nukes?

Very good point.

391 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:46:58pm

re: #350 Thanos

So Phil, who do you think here is supporting Obama?

I don't see anyone who is but I do see a circular firing squad of people jumping over each other to show they're not one of those conservatives. Right now we should be a little more focused on that government which is bankrupting the country and fast. And we should stop apologizing for being opposed to it.

re: #362 Sharmuta

Excuse me- you're the one who said "spare me" when I mentioned independent thinking was a liability, and it is when one displays it and is immediately called a RINO for it.

If thinking for myself makes me a RINO, then I'm a fucking RINO.

I never said you were a RINO, stop being so defensive.

392 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:47:00pm

re: #368 itellu3times

The part where the rabbit bites off his own head, ...

As your attorney, I advise you to order the gin and tonic.

/or something like that

/bars of neutrogena soap? wtf?

393 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:47:01pm

re: #357 Last Mohican

I just tuned in to this thread, and I admit that I haven't read all of the comments. Nevertheless, I fail to see how electrocuting rabbits is going to help the GOP in the next election, and frankly it seems pretty cruel to me.

yes, but sometimes some rabbits and some occasional readers, and some threads have to be electrocuted, from time to time, as they peak, as it were.

394 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:47:07pm

re: #380 albusteve

sugar plumb fairy and the rest....heh

Sugar Plumb Fairy, Sugar Plumb Fairy

395 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:47:15pm

re: #321 Ward Cleaver

OT -

Good Lord. Nightline is going to do a segment on Arianna Huffington tonight, calling her, "The Queen of New Media".

/i'm going to hurl

Ward ... wasn't she the one that did those comedy sketches with oh, what's that new Senator from Minnesota's name ... they were in bed together trying to be funny ... I hope they show some of those clips ...

396 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:47:19pm

re: #358 itellu3times
cavs!?.........................

397 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:47:42pm

re: #376 gtrs

glenn bleck: the tea-baggers PIED PIPER........................../

Man... is he irritating or what?

398 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:48:39pm

re: #379 Shug

Isn't Jones on his show already?

I don't watch him any more

No, jones showed up on Andrew Napolitano's web show. Jones has not yet appeared on the actual TV channel. If he ever does, I'll go back to watching CNN for a good long while. Any channel that give Alex Jones a platform is not one I want to watch.

399 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:48:44pm

re: #391 Phil.

You're the one who didn't understand me and jumped on my ass.

400 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:49:19pm

re: #395 JacksonTn

Ward ... wasn't she the one that did those comedy sketches with oh, what's that new Senator from Minnesota's name ... they were in bed together trying to be funny ... I hope they show some of those clips ...

I turned it off. Someone else will have to wade in there.

401 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:49:43pm

re: #332 bungie

Yes I would say all my ex girlfriends were smarter then me. They made more money than i did.

Every culture has it's wisdom. It was an amusement between me and my inter racial partner to joke about the inherent wisdom of the women in their culture.

The war in vietnam was a shocking shackle to a lot of vietnamese woman but there were also a lot of them who rose above it and were incredibly wise savvy woman about life. It was something that really impressed me about that culture. It's the stress. I think I observe the same thing in black culture.

OMG - i didn't burn dinner tonight while reading LGF threads. It's a miracle.

402 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:50:05pm

re: #395 JacksonTn

Ward ... wasn't she the one that did those comedy sketches with oh, what's that new Senator from Minnesota's name ... they were in bed together trying to be funny ... I hope they show some of those clips ...

Franken?

403 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:50:45pm

re: #321 Ward Cleaver

Same here. I changed the channel to Leno as soon as I heard. Sad to see him go. He will have a lot of trouble at 10PM, I think, and O'Brien annoys me

Bad decision re NBC...and am I the only one who can't bear to watch Jimmy Fallon? He has Garafalo on last night, and that was the last time I will ever watch.

Night owls are not given equal treatment under the law.

/Think that Sotomayor will take the case?
/Think that

404 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:50:47pm

re: #402 J.D.

Franken?

She flipped her lid after her husband joined the other team.

405 Yosemite Bill  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:50:59pm

# 80-
Yes Charles, given the amount of venom here in regards to Sara and her faith I'd have to agree.
Ah- the sweet smell of tolerance, diversity and post bovine organic matter.

406 albusteve  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:11pm

re: #394 Bloodnok

cool outake...some relief

407 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:14pm

re: #404 Ward Cleaver

She flipped her lid after her husband joined the other team.

Ward ... LOL ... that had to hurt ...

408 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:23pm

re: #340 HoosierHoops

Now what a second! LOL
If I was going for just the look..I think..And this is just a dude thing so don't trip..I think the most handsome guy in Ball is Dwight Howard..And he has a smile that can light up a stadium..Just a stud..They don't call him superman for nothing

Not gay, Hoops! 'specially in light of all the really ugly dudes playin' ball. Yeah, I'm talkin' Joakim Noah

/runs to the other end of the court

409 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:32pm

re: #397 J.D.

Man... is he irritating or what?

I've had a gnosis. All the TV news heads are becoming irritating to me. I can only take Megyn

410 NelsFree  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:39pm

re: #332 bungie
Dysthymia:
A mood disorder characterized by chronic mild depression.
Word!
/I'm anti-dysthymic just thinking about it!

411 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:43pm

re: #403 NY Nana

Same here. I changed the channel to Leno as soon as I heard. Sad to see him go. He will have a lot of trouble at 10PM, I think, and O'Brien annoys me

Bad decision re NBC...and am I the only one who can't bear to watch Jimmy Fallon? He has Garafalo on last night, and that was the last time I will ever watch.

Night owls are not given equal treatment under the law.

/Think that Sotomayor will take the case?
/Think that


that late night show on FNC is pretty good, the few times I was up really really late I enjoyed it

412 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:44pm

re: #403 NY Nana

Same here. I changed the channel to Leno as soon as I heard. Sad to see him go. He will have a lot of trouble at 10PM, I think, and O'Brien annoys me

Bad decision re NBC...and am I the only one who can't bear to watch Jimmy Fallon? He has Garafalo on last night, and that was the last time I will ever watch.

Night owls are not given equal treatment under the law.

/Think that Sotomayor will take the case?
/Think that

Leno's appeal to me is as a car guy, with a great collection.

413 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:47pm

re: #351 Racer X

OK, my head is officially spinning.

Is it the left or the right who are out to destroy America?

Yes.

/

414 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:47pm

re: #404 Ward Cleaver

She flipped her lid after her husband joined the other team.

ouch

415 doubter4444  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:51:51pm

re: #235 TheQuis

Everyone keeps bringing up the Ricci case and saying she was racially biased because of her ruling against the 19 firefighters. Three of those firefighters she rule AGAINST were Latino. With Sotomayer being Latina, if she were creating a ruling with her racial prejudices aside wouldn't she rule FOR her Latino Brethren?

re: #244 jaunte

Now you're going to confuse someone.

I'm not completely sure, but (from what I read) I think her decision turned on the rule of law tying her hand on allowing to have him (the firefighter) instated... that she was upholding the precedent, and not really re-interpreting the law, rather she applied it as it as she though necessary in this specific case. In fact I think the crux of the argument at the court is exactly that: The underlining points of the legislation were unconstitutional; therefore needs to be revised. Her upholding in that case would be the opposite of judicial activism, not to mention that as stated above, several of the negged passing firefighters were hispanic, so being racist seems a bit of stretch in the case.
Just an opinion.

416 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:52:16pm

re: #404 Ward Cleaver

She flipped her lid after her husband joined the other team.

The Celtics?

/

417 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:52:18pm

GAZE.

418 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:52:31pm

re: #402 J.D.

Somebody buy a bunch of shares in Clorox, 'cause I need to stock up on some brain bleach right about now.

419 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:52:41pm

re: #392 Ward Cleaver

As your attorney, I advise you to order the gin and tonic.

/or something like that

/bars of neutrogena soap? wtf?

you just picked my next drink

bluecoat gin, scweppes tonic, lime and a prayer

420 rain of lead  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:52:45pm

this thread of heated political discussion is interupted for a brief moment
of beauty, the voice of an angel

Alison Krauss


421 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:52:51pm

re: #396 gtrs

cavs!?.........................

Lakers playing well, can win it against anyone. Lakers main opponent is the Lakers, very zen.

I find myself rooting for Orlando, I'm not sure I want to see a Kobe vs Lebron faceoff, it's a team game, y'know? MJ was better than either, and a better team player, too. Now, if there were a second guy as good as MJ to face off against, welllll, that might be different! Bird vs Magic was actually pretty good, though it was very much team versus team.

422 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:53:17pm

re: #391 Phil.

I don't see anyone who is but I do see a circular firing squad of people jumping over each other to show they're not one of those conservatives. Right now we should be a little more focused on that government which is bankrupting the country and fast. And we should stop apologizing for being opposed to it.

Oh sure it's fine to spend three years trying to bag RINOS but when someone starts to focus on the ridiculous hard right in an OFF election year, it's suddenly time to refocus on Obama. Get real.

We are not going to trumpet in unison with Rush, some of us are smart enough to see that congress is the problem right now just for one thing. You want to get focused? Focus there. The whole point of these posts is to point out how ridiculous it is to be frothing hysterically at the mouth over a foregone conclusion that we can't really affect.
If it upsets you that we aren't trumpeting like a good little herd, that's too bad.

423 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:53:50pm

re: #371 iceweasel

I remember, and the Republicans were right to mock the Dems for that.

The GOP now is essentially where the Democratic leadership was from 2000 til (at least) 2005-- a total shambles, where people would rather engage in pitching tantrums rather than getting their act together and revitalizing their party.

I thought the Democrats have been consistent since then and until now.Rrather, it is events that have changed. Not sure I can name a difference in the party between then and now other than Obama. I don't think the Republicans have stayed the same during their short time in the wilderness, however. Maybe the difference is, the Democrats complained, end of sentence. The Republicans complain and maintain that their problem is they have to be still more conservative.

424 Dar ul Harb  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:54:12pm

re: #351 Racer X

OK, my head is officially spinning.

Is it the left or the right who are out to destroy America?

Um, it takes a village?

425 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:54:12pm

Claiming Sotomayor's a racist, or Beck proposing that a lot of (other) people don't pay their taxes isn't going to do a bit of good for the economy or the deficit.
Noonan's suggestion that the GOP opposition grow up is well taken.

426 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:54:15pm

re: #419 coldwarrior

you just picked my next drink

bluecoat gin, scweppes tonic, lime and a prayer

I read that book so long ago, I just remember bits and pieces. I did like Bill Murray in Where the Buffalo Roam.

/nixon!

427 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:54:41pm

re: #399 Sharmuta

You're the one who didn't understand me and jumped on my ass.

Sharmuta, I'm just frankly not in the mood today between being literally sick and tired. I've seen people dump on Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich and patting themselves on the back countless times for it. Fine, they're over the top. Whatever.

But now I've even seen several people opposed to the Tea Party Protestors. Apparently private citizens opposed to encroaching statism are not their "cup of tea" (pun intended) either.

Which begs the questions: what type of conservative is their cup of tea? Peggy Noonan? Andrew Sullivan? Trying to torture logic to show Barack Obama is really a "conservative" (wink wink) president.

We might as well all learn Mandarin now if so since the Chinese will own all our debt. We're fucked.

428 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:55:00pm

re: #412 Ward Cleaver

good car guy

429 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:55:24pm

re: #418 Fenway_Nation

Somebody buy a bunch of shares in Clorox, 'cause I need to stock up on some brain bleach right about now.

Looks like somebody already did!

Change: Up 0.85 (1.65%)

430 J.D.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:55:36pm

nite

431 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:55:58pm

I'm not going to give up.

432 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:55:59pm

re: #427 Phil.

You might be happier at hot air, because around here, no one is safe from having the anti-idiotarian light shined upon them.

433 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:56:09pm

re: #408 The Shadow Do heh! leave joakim alone; he's a GATOR!....../

434 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:56:23pm

The Glenn Beck comedy tour supposed to be about common sense.

435 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:56:37pm

re: #427 Phil.

Here we go with the Andrew Sullivan comparisons.

436 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:57:27pm

re: #427 Phil.


Ron Paul came out and said the USA deserved 9/11 during last year's GOP primary debates. That goes beyond 'over the top'.

437 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:57:35pm

I heard netflix stock weathers the depression. Economist will say too late to buy it if I already have that knowledge.

438 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:57:42pm

re: #427 Phil.

Phil, for Christ's sake have a cuppa tea.


Granny's always ravin' and rantin'
And she's always puffin' and pantin',
And she's always screaming and shouting,
And she's always brewing up tea.

Grandpappy's never late for his dinner,
Cos he loves his leg of beef
And he washes it down with a brandy,
And a fresh made cup of tea.

Chorus:
Have a cuppa tea, have a cuppa tea,
have a cuppa tea, have a cuppa tea,
Halleluja, halleluja, halleluja, Rosie Lea
Halleluja, halleluja, halleluja Rosie Lea.

If you feel a bit under the weather,
If you feel a little bit peeved,
Take granny's stand-by potion
For any old cough or wheeze.
It's a cure for hepatitis it's a cure for chronic insomnia,
It's a cure for tonsilitis and for water on the knee.

Chorus

Tea in the morning, tea in the evening, tea at supper
time,
You get tea when it's raining, tea when it's snowing.
Tea when the weather's fine,
You get tea as a mid-day stimulant
You get tea with your afternoon tea
For any old ailment or disease
For Christ sake have a cuppa tea.

Chorus,

Whatever the situation whatever the race or creed,
Tea knows no segregation, no class nor pedigree
It knows no motivations, no sect or organisation,
It knows no one religion,
Nor political belief.

Chorus

439 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:57:43pm

Take your protein pills and put your helmet on ... it's gonna be a bumpy four years ...

Ground Control to Major Tom ...

Good Night Lizards ...

440 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:57:57pm

Dumping on Ron Paul is something to be ashamed of?

he's nuts

441 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:58:01pm

re: #408 The Shadow Do

Not gay, Hoops! 'specially in light of all the really ugly dudes playin' ball. Yeah, I'm talkin' Joakim Noah

/runs to the other end of the court

I like Noah cause he plays at a 100 mph constantly..High energy..He has garnered some real critics the last couple of years..I feel unfairly..
He was a gung-ho college kid that won the National Championship twice..and did it as a roll model..never breaking the rules..he inspired his team mates to higher ground..And isn't that what it's all about?

442 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:58:15pm

re: #430 J.D.

nite

Night dude.

443 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:58:17pm

re: #385 Sharmuta

I have to wonder if part of it is due to the ridicule "nuance" was given thanks to John Kerry. We can't be nuanced now- it has to be false dichotomies.

So true. It's like nuance became a forbidden concept.

444 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:58:57pm

re: #438 Bloodnok

LMAO @ your new avatar!

445 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:59:08pm

re: #427 Phil.

Which begs the questions

You mean, raises the questions.

(Downdinging you for abusing the Queen's English)

446 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:59:30pm

re: #444 Sharmuta

LMAO @ your new avatar!

*grunt*

*charges*

447 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #403 NY Nana


/Think that Sotomayor will take the case?
/Think that

/I think that I am getting sleepy.

448 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:59:43pm

re: #443 iceweasel

So true. It's like nuance became a forbidden concept.

Pity that.

449 rain of lead  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:59:49pm

re: #432 Sharmuta

You might be happier at hot air, because around here, no one is safe from having the anti-idiotarian light shined upon them.

ouch, did mandy say it was ok to borrow her clue by four?
that logic nail really leaves a mark.

450 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:00:03pm

re: #363 Occasional Reader

And then she'd ride up on a horse, wearing thigh-high riding boots, and then maybe whip me (lightly) for not working hard enough, and then bring me back to the plantation house for further punishment, and...

sorry, where was I?

451 NelsFree  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:00:21pm

Gnosis:
Intuitive apprehension of spiritual truths, an esoteric form of knowledge sought by the Gnostics
Word!
/I never gnew!
Now I'm worn out... G'nite.

452 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:00:44pm

re: #450 OldLineTexan

That is ...

Getting your foot chopped in half?

/

453 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:01:03pm

I think I'll check out the Whigs, and see if they're operating here in Texas. The GOP has pretty much lost me.

454 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:01:05pm

re: #49 Shug

and republicans who are now bent out of shape about La raza were silent back then

there are double standards on both sides. No doubts about that

I didn't know it back then. Wasn't reading blogs or watching fox. If I had know I wouldn't have supported him at all. La Raza is on my do not fly list.

455 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:01:21pm

re: #439 JacksonTn

Take your protein pills and put your helmet on ... it's gonna be a bumpy four years ...

Ground Control to Major Tom ...


Good Night Lizards ...

Ashes to ashes, funk to funky
We know Major Tom's a junky
Strung out on heaven's high,
Hitting an all-time low

456 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:01:36pm

re: #426 Ward Cleaver

I read that book so long ago, I just remember bits and pieces. I did like Bill Murray in Where the Buffalo Roam.

/nixon!

murray was good, depp was better.

the odd thing was that i went to an art show in berlin in 87 for steadman and he was terrified when i asked him to autograph fear and loathing (and the other books he did). he had the fear, he thought thompson had somehting to do with it.

457 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:02:17pm

Evening folks...how's the call for sanity going?

458 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:02:25pm

re: #445 Occasional Reader

You mean, raises the questions.

(Downdinging you for abusing the Queen's English)

Where's KT? He'll pat the Queen's English on its saucy bum like the trollop it is.

/

459 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:02:31pm

re: #457 srb1976

Evening folks...how's the call for sanity going?

Unanswered

460 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:02:47pm

re: #456 coldwarrior

murray was good, depp was better.

the odd thing was that i went to an art show in berlin in 87 for steadman and he was terrified when i asked him to autograph fear and loathing (and the other books he did). he had the fear, he thought thompson had somehting to do with it.

That's too crazy.

461 NelsFree  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:02:55pm

re: #451 NelsFree

Now I'm worn out... G'nite.


Sorry, I meant...gnite.
/Didn't mean to ignite a firestorm

462 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:03:05pm

I really love how ron paul has shifted fiscal scrutiny onto the Federal Reserve instead of it being rightfully on Congress. He knows where his bread is buttered. What a low down, snaky thing to do. He is no American patriot. A real patriot would know Congress spends the money and it is Congress that needs fiscal scrutiny and reform. ron paul is an asshole.

463 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:03:16pm

Is anyone more supercilious than O'Reilly?

464 Wendya  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:03:29pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

I'm starting to think republicans want to be the minority party.

They certainly are acting like it. There is a certain type of "conservative" that goes into a panic when democrats beat them. They feel the proper response is to move the party leftward to meet them.

I don't have a lot of use for them.

465 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:03:30pm

re: #459 Bloodnok

Unanswered

Damn, and I was holding out hope too = )

466 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:03:50pm

re: #457 srb1976

Evening folks...how's the call for sanity going?

Hey, have you figured out the diaper problem with your 19mo?

467 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:04:07pm

re: #421 itellu3times

Lakers playing well, can win it against anyone. Lakers main opponent is the Lakers, very zen.

I find myself rooting for Orlando, I'm not sure I want to see a Kobe vs Lebron faceoff, it's a team game, y'know? MJ was better than either, and a better team player, too. Now, if there were a second guy as good as MJ to face off against, welllll, that might be different! Bird vs Magic was actually pretty good, though it was very much team versus team.

It has been a great playoff's this year...And Kobe ready to get a ring...
Nooooooo! Dang it! LOL
I don't like Kobe....

468 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:04:19pm

re: #463 pat

Is anyone more supercilious than O'Reilly?

He's looking out for... himself.

469 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:04:33pm

re: #421 itellu3times

Lakers playing well, can win it against anyone. Lakers main opponent is the Lakers, very zen.

I find myself rooting for Orlando, I'm not sure I want to see a Kobe vs Lebron faceoff, it's a team game, y'know? MJ was better than either, and a better team player, too. Now, if there were a second guy as good as MJ to face off against, welllll, that might be different! Bird vs Magic was actually pretty good, though it was very much team versus team.

I'm with ya. Bird vs Magic One was the NCAA final. It was Bird vs MSU with Magic. In the NBA things evened up. Lebron needs a team around him and then were talkin' some real competition!

470 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:05:00pm

re: #464 Wendya

They certainly are acting like it. There is a certain type of "conservative" that goes into a panic when democrats beat them. They feel the proper response is to move the party leftward to meet them.

I don't have a lot of use for them.

I have no use for big spending moral busy bodies on the left or the right.

471 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:05:11pm

re: #460 Ward Cleaver

That's too crazy.

when i produced lono for signature, he damn near passed out.

musta been fun

472 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:05:22pm

Oy vey, who's engaging in groupthink now? I don't vociferously condemn Ron Paul for everything he's ever stood for and now I'm out of several people's Cool Kid's Club.

Do yourself a favor and read the Assertions section of the Austrian Business Cycle Theory.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

If that doesn't perfectly explain our current predicaments, nothing does.

473 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:05:36pm

re: #466 Ward Cleaver

Hey, have you figured out the diaper problem with your 19mo?

For now she sleeps in onesies that snap at the crotch....with pants over them...won't hold her for long...but seems to work for now

Thanks!

474 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:05:38pm

re: #467 HoosierHoops

It has been a great playoff's this year...And Kobe ready to get a ring...
Nooooooo! Dang it! LOL
I don't like Kobe....


and the network execs are on their knees praying. lighting candles, buying rabbits feet, chanting, etc etc etc that Lebron pulls out a win in 7 games.

475 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:06:09pm

re: #423 Flyers1974

I thought the Democrats have been consistent since then and until now.Rrather, it is events that have changed. Not sure I can name a difference in the party between then and now other than Obama. I don't think the Republicans have stayed the same during their short time in the wilderness, however. Maybe the difference is, the Democrats complained, end of sentence. The Republicans complain and maintain that their problem is they have to be still more conservative.

The blogosphere had a lot to do with the change, I think. From 2000-2005, it seemed to me that the Democratic Party was disorganized and mostly a reactive party. That's changed and now the Democratic Party is much better at driving and controlling the message; they're now the ones controlling the narrative. Maybe that's all Obama and his team. (I have no use for Reid and Pelosi).

In any case, I think it's a mistake for the Republicans to think they need to be hunkering down and energizing the base, rather than reaching out to moderates and independents.

476 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:06:13pm

re: #397 J.D.

Man... is he irritating or what?

Yes, that t-b joke is getting tiresome.

477 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:06:19pm

re: #470 Sharmuta

I have no use for big spending moral busy bodies on the left or the right.

[putting away wallet and Bible]

Damn. And here I thought you and I had... you know... like, connected.

478 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:07:05pm

re: #470 Sharmuta

I have no use for big spending moral busy bodies on the left or the right.

Well said!

479 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:07:33pm

re: #437 hazzyday

I heard netflix stock weathers the depression. Economist will say too late to buy it if I already have that knowledge.

Another stock that's weathered the downturn quite well- in fact, I'd say it thrived- would be Coinstar.

I didn't even know it was publicly traded until late last year.

480 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:07:39pm

re: #441 HoosierHoops

I like Noah cause he plays at a 100 mph constantly..High energy..He has garnered some real critics the last couple of years..I feel unfairly..
He was a gung-ho college kid that won the National Championship twice..and did it as a roll model..never breaking the rules..he inspired his team mates to higher ground..And isn't that what it's all about?

I was funnin'. My hero is Larry Bird, ugliest superstar ever.

481 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:08:07pm

re: #477 Occasional Reader

[putting away wallet and Bible]

Damn. And here I thought you and I had... you know... like, connected.

If you got the money, honey, I got the Psalm

/

482 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:08:15pm

Rush, Toomey, and Norquist have been out bagging "rinos" for three years, with McCain as prime target.

They don't like it when the favor is returned. Now we have litmus tests. They don't like it at all.

Friends with DI? You are going to hear about it. Tied to the Birchers? You are going to hear about it. Dwell on race too much? You are going to hear about it. Hang with the nazis? You are going to hear about it. Running with a kookspiracy theory? You are going to hear about it etc.

483 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:08:38pm

re: #472 Phil.

Oy vey, who's engaging in groupthink now? I don't vociferously condemn Ron Paul for everything he's ever stood for and now I'm out of several people's Cool Kid's Club.

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me
Think I'll go and eat worms

484 shortshrift  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:08:39pm

re: #216 itellu3times

The racist "meme" is to do with the fundamental assumption by the liberal left that white society is racist. By definition, then, no-one "of color" (and leftist Latinos put themselves in this category) can ever be racist, nor white people the victims of racism. The conservatives understand this, but balk at it from time to time, in futile attempts to reclaim a color-blind jurisprudence. Bleating "racist" is pointless. Juan Williams admitted that the Sotomajor statement concerning wise Latinas making better decisions than white males would be racist - if it were inverted! We will never reach a time (as Sandra Day O'Connor hoped) when affirmative action is unnecessary. It is a government-backed American Dream program.

485 hazzyday  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:08:47pm

I've said a lot of stupid things and have extreme ideas. But when I was in Government customer service I always prided myself on being extremely fair to each and every taxpayer no matter how irritating of a jerk they were. I would never hold back needed information from anyone. Though I knew people that did. Some angry people would always call on me because they thought their anger was getting traction with me. It wasn't. I was just waiting for them to be civil to me.

Now that I am older I wonder if I was just being naive. When I see all the race hustlers, the bank defraudings, the nifongs, etc etc etc. And when i see myself worrying about it, i can also see that I am lessor in that pride because of the doubt.

In Sotomeyer, I would like to see the pride that I thought I had once.

486 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:08:50pm

re: #463 pat

Is anyone more supercilious than O'Reilly?

He's Irish, he's the antithesis of the supercilious Englishman.

487 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:08:55pm

re: #473 srb1976

For now she sleeps in onesies that snap at the crotch....with pants over them...won't hold her for long...but seems to work for now

Thanks!

Cool. Maybe if she can't get them off for awhile, she'll forget about it.

488 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:09:22pm

Good evening!

Nuclear Powered Shaver

489 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:09:27pm

re: #458 OldLineTexan

Where's KT? He'll pat the Queen's English on its saucy bum like the trollop it is.

/

I loved that, you made me laugh!

490 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:09:29pm

re: #473 srb1976

For now she sleeps in onesies that snap at the crotch....with pants over them...won't hold her for long...but seems to work for now

Thanks!

re: #473 srb1976

For now she sleeps in onesies that snap at the crotch....with pants over them...won't hold her for long...but seems to work for now

Thanks!

whats the prob there...i can be of assistance (4 mo old in the house)

491 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:10:14pm

re: #487 Ward Cleaver

Cool. Maybe if she can't get them off for awhile, she'll forget about it.

Duct tape.

492 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:10:43pm

is it too early for a chastity belt? ( with diaper underneath )

493 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:11:11pm

re: #457 srb1976

Evening folks...how's the call for sanity going?

You can't buy Sanity..
Timmy says when the credit crunch is over...People will buy whatever you are selling...
There were published reports from the EU today that as the price of Gold rose the price of Sanity sunk in world markets..
/

494 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:11:18pm

re: #484 shortshrift

I don't know that jurisprudence has ever been 'color-blind' or even especially 'blind' for that matter. It's our stated ideal, but it hasn't been well honored.

495 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:11:37pm

re: #472 Phil.

Oy vey, who's engaging in groupthink now? I don't vociferously condemn Ron Paul for everything he's ever stood for and now I'm out of several people's Cool Kid's Club.

Just because I don't want to sit with the GOP's 'Cool Kids' in the cafeteria like Peggy Noonan, Colin Powell or Andrew Sullivan doesn't Ron Paul is the better choice.

496 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:11:39pm

re: #490 coldwarrior

whats the prob there...i can be of assistance (4 mo old in the house)

She keeps taking her diaper off during the night. I've had two that did that.

497 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:11:41pm

re: #472 Phil.

I didn't realize you were in with the cool kids.

498 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:11:44pm

Good night.

499 jvic  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:12:25pm

re: #283 itellu3times

1. I had in mind the overall manipulation of language by both parties, not just the fight over the meaning of "racism". Plenty of hidden GOP agenda there. (Let's defend schoolteachers' academic freedom! Let's rescue science!)

2. I get furious when a self-righteous Angry White Male says we should dump affirmative action and go back to "merit". We wouldn't go back to pure merit and we were never there in the first place; nor does affirmative action, even with race norming, completely abandon merit. The legitimate argument is that the current playground for lawyers, bureaucrats and politicians does more overall harm than good. Iirc Thomas Sowell has written eloquently about that point.

I'm not writing eloquently; I'm so sleepy I can barely type. Good night.

500 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:12:35pm

re: #498 Occasional Reader

Good night.

Night OR. Sweet dreams (of Adriana).

501 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:12:35pm

re: #490 coldwarrior

whats the prob there...i can be of assistance (4 mo old in the house)

Her Royal Stoutness (19 mos old) has decided that she needs to have her diaper off so she can pee like her big brother. She had been taking it off @ night.....messy, so I had asked for advice the other day....the snaps seems to be working for now....I'm thinking potty training for her is not too far off...she already tells us when she's dirty or wet....

502 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:13:07pm

re: #483 Bloodnok

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me
Think I'll go and eat worms

Big, fat, juicy worms.

503 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:13:11pm

I must say that I find many Republicans to more realistic and mature than Democrats. The problem is lack of thought and media slant. Listening to Pelosi on anything, Reid on ethics or bill contents, Kennedy on judicial history, Durbin on the military, or watching Democrat proxies like Acorn and The Black Panthers commit fraud and thuggery before the eyes of the world does not constitute free political debate or thoughtful philosophy. As for Obama, he is well on his way in the incorporation of the Chicago School of Politics: "We Decide, You Do"
Frankly, I will say what I wish. If Noonan wants to cherry pick comments around the USA, maybe she should start with the other team.........or is she a member of that team? Hmmm.

504 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:13:22pm

re: #500 Ward Cleaver

Night OR. Sweet dreams (of Adriana).

Sweet Dreams Adriana

/where's Buzzsawmonkey?

505 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:13:53pm

re: #483 Bloodnok

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me
Think I'll go and eat worms

Yeah, what would I know about deficits and bankruptcies? I've only got a graduate degree in Economics and have successfully helped steer two companies out of bankruptcy that you have certainly heard of.

Ignore record high Treasury bond rates, rising mortgage rates, a declining dollar, and rising oil prices, because Sarah Palin is trailer park trash and we should condemn her!

Sorry, circular firing squads don't do anyone much good.

506 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:13:56pm

re: #503 pat

I must say that I find many Republicans to more realistic and mature than Democrats. The problem is lack of thought and media slant. Listening to Pelosi on anything, Reid on ethics or bill contents, Kennedy on judicial history, Durbin on the military, or watching Democrat proxies like Acorn and The Black Panthers commit fraud and thuggery before the eyes of the world does not constitute free political debate or thoughtful philosophy. As for Obama, he is well on his way in the incorporation of the Chicago School of Politics: "We Decide, You Do"
Frankly, I will say what I wish. If Noonan wants to cherry pick comments around the USA, maybe she should start with the other team.........or is she a member of that team? Hmmm.


high five

507 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:14:22pm

re: #502 MandyManners

Big, fat, juicy worms.

My MiL sang that one to June when she was a kid. Now June sings it to our kids.

508 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:14:37pm

re: #505 Phil.

Yeah, what would I know about deficits and bankruptcies? I've only got a graduate degree in Economics and have successfully helped steer two companies out of bankruptcy that you have certainly heard of.

Ignore record high Treasury bond rates, rising mortgage rates, a declining dollar, and rising oil prices, because Sarah Palin is trailer park trash and we should condemn her!

Sorry, circular firing squads don't do anyone much good.

Lemme guess your IQ. 176?

509 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:15:05pm

re: #505 Phil.

Is your IQ 167 Phil?

510 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:15:11pm

re: #505 Phil.

Yeah, what would I know about deficits and bankruptcies? I've only got a graduate degree in Economics and have successfully helped steer two companies out of bankruptcy that you have certainly heard of.

Ignore record high Treasury bond rates, rising mortgage rates, a declining dollar, and rising oil prices, because Sarah Palin is trailer park trash and we should condemn her!

Sorry, circular firing squads don't do anyone much good.

You're either not drinking enough, or too much.

511 doubter4444  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:15:12pm

re: #385 Sharmuta

I have to wonder if part of it is due to the ridicule "nuance" was given thanks to John Kerry. We can't be nuanced now- it has to be false dichotomies.

Right.
And it slips in as a great fit into the anti-intellectual wing that despises independent thinking.
I Can't tell you how many friends who are pulling their hair out in dismay over the complete chaos going on... all they want is a plan... an idea, a forward look to a different way out of the mess we are in.
Don't blame the media. They are not hiding the amazing outline for addressing the massive problems facing the country that the Republican's have. It's that they don't have one. It's been months.
Where the is it?

512 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:15:25pm

re: #507 Ward Cleaver

My MiL sang that one to June when she was a kid. Now June sings it to our kids.

Funny...dad used to sing "great green globs of greasy grimy gopher guts" but I haven't passed it along yet

513 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:15:40pm

re: #509 Thanos

Is your IQ 167 Phil?

DANGIT! 167.

*stands in corner*

514 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:15:56pm

re: #507 Ward Cleaver

My MiL sang that one to June when she was a kid. Now June sings it to our kids.

Without their skins!

515 TheQuis  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:16:06pm

re: #415 doubter4444

Exactly. Everyone that keeps trying to call her a racist because of her ruling in this case hasn't actually looked at the case.

516 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:16:07pm

re: #458 OldLineTexan

Where's KT? He'll pat the Queen's English on its saucy bum like the trollop it is.

/

I'll tallywag her crumpet down the Thames from Derbyshire to Wemsleyonthebend.

517 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:16:35pm

re: #509 Thanos

Is your IQ 167 Phil?

I appreciate the snark Thanos, but you'd do well to see what's in store for us if we don't get our deficits in order and fast.

But that's just crazy talk!

518 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:16:55pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

I bet you say that to all the girls.....

519 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:17:06pm

re: #517 Phil.

How do you propose getting the deficit in order?

520 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:17:21pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

I'll tallywag her crumpet down the Thames from Derbyshire to Wemsleyonthebend.

Oi! You rogered the boogly there, mate!

/I knew I could count on you for that

521 wee fury  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:17:40pm

re: #517 Phil.

I appreciate the snark Thanos, but you'd do well to see what's in store for us if we don't get our deficits in order and fast.

But that's just crazy talk!

My, you are bold.

522 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:17:40pm

re: #511 doubter4444

Right.
And it slips in as a great fit into the anti-intellectual wing that despises independent thinking.
I Can't tell you how many friends who are pulling their hair out in dismay over the complete chaos going on... all they want is a plan... an idea, a forward look to a different way out of the mess we are in.
Don't blame the media. They are not hiding the amazing outline for addressing the massive problems facing the country that the Republican's have. It's that they don't have one. It's been months.
Where the is it?

I think it's as simple as balancing the budget and supporting individual rights, but no one at GOP HQ or anywhere else seems to be listening. These are basic concepts we used to stand for. They worked before, and they'll work again. Until the GOP hierarchy figures it out, I think the hair pulling will continue.

523 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:18:10pm

re: #519 jaunte

How do you propose getting the deficit in order?

Bake sale!

524 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:18:13pm

re: #519 jaunte

How do you propose getting the deficit in order?

Do what we did for the first 150-200 years in this country: Stop spending money we don't have.

Crazy talk!

525 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:18:51pm

re: #521 wee fury

My, you are bold.

Say what you like, Phil has added to the conversation, IMO.

I detest an echo chamber.

526 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:18:54pm

re: #524 Phil.

Do what we did for the first 150-200 years in this country: Stop spending money we don't have.

Crazy talk!

Is auditing the Fed going to achieve that?

527 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:19:07pm

re: #501 srb1976

Her Royal Stoutness (19 mos old) has decided that she needs to have her diaper off so she can pee like her big brother. She had been taking it off @ night.....messy, so I had asked for advice the other day....the snaps seems to be working for now....I'm thinking potty training for her is not too far off...she already tells us when she's dirty or wet....

my other daughter is 14yrs. i have some experience.

snaps are good, she is so ready for potty training, take advantage of her abilities

this child rearing advice given from a former usarmy sniper/checkpoint charlie guard and is not meant to (insert some legal crap here)

528 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:19:12pm

re: #524 Phil.

Do what we did for the first 150-200 years in this country: Stop spending money we don't have.

Crazy talk!

well aren't we out of money for the rest of 2009 ?

should we stop funding the military?

529 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:19:34pm

Phil's got the brains; Sharm's got the looks; I've got the brawn.

Let's make lots of money:

530 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:19:36pm

re: #525 OldLineTexan

Say what you like, Phil has added to the conversation, IMO.

I detest an echo chamber.

Right- because no one else at LGF has discussed our fiscal issues. Come on.

531 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:19:44pm

re: #524 Phil.

Do what we did for the first 150-200 years in this country: Stop spending money we don't have.

Crazy talk!

Gold Standard?

532 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:19:56pm

re: #523 NJDhockeyfan

Bake sale!

It worked for Dan

533 wee fury  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:19:59pm

re: #525 OldLineTexan

Was referring to his bold type -- sorry.

534 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:20:05pm

re: #524 Phil.

That means we have to get a lot of fiscal conservatives elected, which means encouraging a lot of middle-of-the-roaders and non-voters to vote for GOP candidates (who can't present themselves as raving nutjobs).

535 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:20:07pm

Frankly, most of us seem to be agreeing with each other here on the larger points but nonetheless are snarking each other and falling over each other to take the next shot in a circular firing squad.

So why are exactly are we doing the latter again?

536 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:20:40pm

re: #485 hazzyday

I've said a lot of stupid things and have extreme ideas. But when I was in Government customer service I always prided myself on being extremely fair to each and every taxpayer no matter how irritating of a jerk they were. I would never hold back needed information from anyone. Though I knew people that did. Some angry people would always call on me because they thought their anger was getting traction with me. It wasn't. I was just waiting for them to be civil to me.

Now that I am older I wonder if I was just being naive. When I see all the race hustlers, the bank defraudings, the nifongs, etc etc etc. And when i see myself worrying about it, i can also see that I am lessor in that pride because of the doubt.

In Sotomeyer, I would like to see the pride that I thought I had once.

I'm not sure what you are saying but it seems positive and heartfelt. Pride in service? Commendable, not naive I think. Expand?

537 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:20:42pm

don't worry.... soon there won't be any money for any further auditing....

538 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:20:42pm

re: #523 NJDhockeyfan

Bake sale!

Mmmmm... cake.

539 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:20:50pm

re: #480 The Shadow Do

I was funnin'. My hero is Larry Bird, ugliest superstar ever.

Hold on..uglyst superstar ever..Let me think...throw this out..
1. Babe Ruth..Huge star..But seriously..That boy was ......not pretty?
2. Mike Tyson..The youngest world boxing champion of all time...The face tatoo's have been an upgrade..
3. Ty Cobb.. The most talented greatest baseball players of all time..
Also the most vile bigot piece of shit person that ever walked the face of the earth...
/

540 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:21:00pm

re: #530 Sharmuta

Right- because no one else at LGF has discussed our fiscal issues. Come on.

Oh for Pete's sake. Is everything tonight taken to absurd lengths and thrown back?

Do you honestly believe that's what I wrote? Really?

541 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:21:00pm

re: #535 Phil.

I don't know- why did you jump me earlier for saying independent thinking was a liability? Start with that.

542 Former Belgian  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:21:25pm

re: #15 iceweasel

They're certainly acting like it, what with the endless calls for more purity within the party and calling everyone a RINO. Very bad news for us all, no matter what our political affiliation. A healthy democracy needs a minimum of two vibrant political parties if it wants to stay a democracy.

Unfortunately, in "first-past-the-post" electoral systems, two major parties is generally all you get. Look at the UK (another FPTP system): the Lib-Dems (which are actually worse than Labour in some respects, but that's not the point) sometimes get 2% of the seats in the House with 20% of the electorate.

If the US electoral system were different, this would be the ideal time to create a new centrist party, and then a stance of ideological purity would actually make sense for the GOP, as it would be assured of a large chunk of conservative voters that way while moving to the center would merely result in these voters being gobbled up by the first new credible conservative party to come along.

In the real world (and the actual US electoral system), the GOP cannot win without at least part of the independents. Sure, pandering too much will lead the base to stay home or waste their vote on the Libertarian or Constitution parties. And, sadly, politics is often a game of perception. 0bama was perceived as a statesmanlike moderate by many independents even though anybody who did his homework knew how far from the truth that is.

Of course, purely Macchiavellistically speaking, this still leaves the option of a two-pronged strategy: statesmanlike to the center and screeching to the base (the latter preferably by technically "non-partisan" pressure groups). I am sad to say that this worked wonders for the Democrats ;-)

543 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:21:26pm

re: #517 Phil.

I notice the weak-ass sissy argument is to always change the topic when you don't like the subject, and when that doesn't work .... then just use exclamation points!


Seriously, do you think it's helping the budget at all for idiotarian pundits to call Obama's SC nominee a racist. Please explain to me how you are connecting the two. Perhaps it's through some bizarre legerdemain only beancounters are aware of.

544 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:21:30pm

re: #527 coldwarrior

my other daughter is 14yrs. i have some experience.

snaps are good, she is so ready for potty training, take advantage of her abilities

this child rearing advice given from a former usarmy sniper/checkpoint charlie guard and is not meant to (insert some legal crap here)

That's what I was thinking...we're going to introduce it gently...but soon

545 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:21:31pm

Steve Martin plays Deliverance

546 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:21:56pm

re: #540 OldLineTexan

Other than being asshole-ish, what has Phil added?

547 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:22:04pm

re: #533 wee fury

Was referring to his bold type -- sorry.

Oh, I figured that. But it would have been a nice double entendre. Sorry for tacking my response onto your post if it created any negative connotation. None intended.

548 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:22:50pm

re: #524 Phil.

Do what we did for the first 150-200 years in this country: Stop spending money we don't have.

Crazy talk!

You speak as though we don't know that or even consider that at LGF. However, that's not the topic of the specific article. Going off topic is common but acting like others are lower than you because they don't want to join you in your specific worries is doesn't reflect a grasp of common sense.

549 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:23:20pm

re: #538 Ward Cleaver

Mmmmm... cake.

We'll make the pie BIGGER.

550 William  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:23:53pm
The Democrats in the White House have been doing it since January, operating with a certain decorum, a kind of assumption as to their natural stature. ... They’re smooth, impeccable, sophisticated, like the boss.

I'm sorry, but Noonan can't be serious. There are about 200 examples proving the above utter nonsense -- Obama's teleprompter mandate for every pubic event, Obama referring to his bowling skills as "like the Special Olympics" on national television, Obama laughing about the economic meltdown during his first interview after Trillions of taxpayer dollars went out the window with TARP, etc, etc, etc.

And they're vehemently partisan, too.

Decorum? Impeccable? Sophisticated? Noonan has gone off the deep end.

551 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:24:07pm

re: #546 Sharmuta

Other than being asshole-ish, what has Phil added?

OK, I give up. Whatever makes it more fun for you.

552 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:24:36pm
553 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:25:01pm

re: #541 Sharmuta

I don't know- why did you jump me earlier for saying independent thinking was a liability? Start with that.

Because it goes back to my point of a circular firing squad. Take someone like Glenn Beck. Is Glenn Beck crazy sometimes? You damn right he is.

But just because he's crazy sometimes doesn't mean he's crazy all the time. When it comes to the fiscal train wreck that is heading our way, he at least seems to "get that". But many are so eager to show that they're not that kind of conservative that they're jumping over each other to shoot first in the circular firing squad.

How about we allow Glenn Beck, Colin Powell, Rush Limbaugh and Peggy Noonan to come party together instead of trying to split up the invite list, hmm?

554 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:25:47pm

Just tell me the first thing that pops into your mind......

No time for the ol' in and out, love. I'm just here to read the meter.
/Eggywegs

555 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:25:58pm

re: #551 OldLineTexan

OK, I give up. Whatever makes it more fun for you.

And please, don't feel obligated to answer my questions.

556 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:27:53pm

re: #555 OldLineTexan

And please, don't feel obligated to answer my questions.

Damn...no one said there'd be a test = )

(sorry, I had to)

557 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:27:57pm

re: #553 Phil.

How about you just let the conversation flow and mind your own business about were it goes and stop trying to be a control freak. You're also wrong if you think we're all agreeing here -- you're obviously not comprehending what is being said.

558 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:28:21pm

Where it goes that is.

559 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:28:33pm

I will assure all of you, there will be no end to the disaster Obamanomics has caused. It will out live all of us. There are examples of severe wartime spending not destroying economies, mainly because of rationing building pent up demand. But there has never been a case of civilian pork of the nature we see now not hobbling a nation with economic disaster. We are no more than another Mexico now. Your kids will live with half of what you have now. And Obama wishes to compound the problem by eliminating the production of energy components in America( refineries, oil exploration, coal, nuclear power) with his bizarre Cap and Trade schemes and politically motivated environmental regulations and laws.. This will drive all American energy component production overseas. The Saudis and Venezuela couls own this nation in a decade.

560 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:29:09pm

re: #543 Thanos

I notice the weak-ass sissy argument is to always change the topic when you don't like the subject, and when that doesn't work .... then just use exclamation points!

Seriously, do you think it's helping the budget at all for idiotarian pundits to call Obama's SC nominee a racist. Please explain to me how you are connecting the two. Perhaps it's through some bizarre legerdemain only beancounters are aware of.

I'm saying there's a false dichotomy at work here. For instance, I don't think Sotomayor is a racist but she did make a racist remark. You don't build your tent by trying to having an intra-conservative name calling. You build the tent by blending the more conservative and moderate wings of the party and then pitching what you believe to independents.

We have the added benefit of knowing that independents agree with us on issues like limited government, federalism, budget deficits etc. Let's start using that to our advantage.

561 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:29:12pm

re: #553 Phil.

Having Glenn "the sky is falling we are all doomed" Beck be our front man on the economy would be the stupidest damned thing the Republican party could do. He's an idiot who instantly discredits any thought that passes his lips whether good or bad. On top of that he's made the Bircher Skousen book number three on the kindle list last I checked. Like we need more bircher bullshit, that's exactly what took us out of power.

562 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:29:12pm

re: #556 srb1976

(sorry, I had to)

I have to say that a lot here, myself. ;)

Goodnight.

563 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:29:13pm

re: #553 Phil.

Not all republicans are conservatives. Not all people who claim to be conservatives actually are conservatives. I think Barry Goldwater would be mortified by some of the people who think they can claim his mantle. There are a number of people in Congress calling themselves conservatives who thought it was their job for 8 years to spend money like democrats.

Sorry, but glenn beck isn't a conservative.

564 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:29:58pm

re: #559 pat

HEY! Give bushonomics some props.

565 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:30:14pm

re: #553 Phil.

Because it goes back to my point of a circular firing squad. Take someone like Glenn Beck. Is Glenn Beck crazy sometimes? You damn right he is.

But just because he's crazy sometimes doesn't mean he's crazy all the time. When it comes to the fiscal train wreck that is heading our way, he at least seems to "get that". But many are so eager to show that they're not that kind of conservative that they're jumping over each other to shoot first in the circular firing squad.

How about we allow Glenn Beck, Colin Powell, Rush Limbaugh and Peggy Noonan to come party together instead of trying to split up the invite list, hmm?

The problem is that Glen Beck is so crazy that he shouldn't get an invite. Crazies taint anything they are associated with. Liberals can survive that taint sometimes, as they have the MSM in their corner. The GOP does not, so it must be far harsher on crazies. Its unfair, but that's the way it is.

566 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:30:20pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

I'll tallywag her crumpet down the Thames from Derbyshire to Wemsleyonthebend.

And have a good time doing it!

567 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:30:33pm

re: #230 Thanos when a republican senator as conservative as cornyn is labled RINO; it will be a long time before that party has any chance of being an alternative at the ballot box; that situation is bad for the country

568 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:30:47pm

re: #560 Phil.

Wendya disagrees.

569 Bobblehead  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:31:56pm

re: #545 NJDhockeyfan

Steve Martin plays Deliverance


[Video]

He has a new album of banjo works
The Crow

570 Former Belgian  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:32:08pm

re: #472 Phil.

Oy vey, who's engaging in groupthink now? I don't vociferously condemn Ron Paul for everything he's ever stood for and now I'm out of several people's Cool Kid's Club.

Do yourself a favor and read the Assertions section of the Austrian Business Cycle Theory.

I personally think L. Ron Paul is a dangerous kook and a crypto-WN, but I am reminded of Leo Strauss who (tongue half in cheek) defined the informal fallacy of "reductio ad Hitlerum"/"argumentum ad Nazium" --- arguing against something, no matter how sensible otherwise, on the sole grounds that an extremely odious figure is in favor of it. (Example: "animal protection laws are morally wrong --- Hitler [y"sh] was in favor of them".)

571 freetoken  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:32:12pm

re: #505 Phil.

Yeah, what would I know about deficits and bankruptcies? I've only got a graduate degree in Economics and have successfully helped steer two companies out of bankruptcy that you have certainly heard of.

Well, good for you.

Nevertheless, you throw in quite a few logical fallacies. For instance, I don't remember anyone here calling Sarah Palin "trailer park trash", yet you throw that out as if we (the lgf collective) somehow believe that and therefore we are also ignorant of interest rates. Red herring and non sequitur.

572 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:32:32pm

re: #538 Ward Cleaver

Mmmmm... cake.

PIE!

573 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:32:32pm

re: #557 Gus 802

How about you just let the conversation flow and mind your own business about were it goes and stop trying to be a control freak. You're also wrong if you think we're all agreeing here -- you're obviously not comprehending what is being said.

I'm a control freak even though I rarely post here? Some kind of control freak?

Do you believe in limited government? Do you believe in federalism? Do you think trillion dollar deficits every year for the next 10 is probably a bad idea?

If so, we probably agree on the larger issues.

574 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:32:57pm

re: #552 Iron Fist

I haven't had any use for Noonan since she went nuts over the Palin pick. She showed herself to be a pretty snobbish member of the Country Club Republicans who thought all of us "fieldhands" out in flyover country were getting a bit uppity what with one of us being on the ballot.

Yeah, she really was that offensive. Pardon me if I put her on mute for political acumen from here on out.

dead on. palin will be the Reagan redone, even if charles thinks otherwise.

the fun part of palin is that she caused my mom to become a gop activist, my dad, however, will not change his dem registration...he was a local union prez back in the day, vietnam vet, and has voted gop prez since 88 (oddly enough the same year that his son went over to west berlin...i think he voted for bush sr just to protect his lineage! /

575 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:32:59pm

re: #550 William

I'm sorry, but Noonan can't be serious. There are about 200 examples proving the above utter nonsense -- Obama's teleprompter mandate for every pubic event, Obama referring to his bowling skills as "like the Special Olympics" on national television, Obama laughing about the economic meltdown during his first interview after Trillions of taxpayer dollars went out the window with TARP, etc, etc, etc.

And they're vehemently partisan, too.

Decorum? Impeccable? Sophisticated? Noonan has gone off the deep end.

Teleprompter - Not terribly compelling evil to most.
Bowling/Special Olympics joke - The Dems don't care and I thought the Republicans were against P.C.
Obama laughing - Laugh and the world laughs with you.

576 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:33:33pm

re: #560 Phil.

I'm saying there's a false dichotomy at work here. For instance, I don't think Sotomayor is a racist but she did make a racist remark. You don't build your tent by trying to having an intra-conservative name calling. You build the tent by blending the more conservative and moderate wings of the party and then pitching what you believe to independents.

We have the added benefit of knowing that independents agree with us on issues like limited government, federalism, budget deficits etc. Let's start using that to our advantage.

No, not if it means toting DI idiots along for the ride. Had it with that. No. Not if it means toting jerks who pretend they are for the budget but who are really going to kill any chance of gaining Republican seats in populous states through spending more time on Socon issues than budget issues. That gets us the perma-lose. Not going there. No thanks.

Now I am done with you and your hijacking attempt. The beatings will continue until Socon morale improves.

577 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:34:24pm

re: #560 Phil.

I'm saying there's a false dichotomy at work here. For instance, I don't think Sotomayor is a racist but she did make a racist remark. You don't build your tent by trying to having an intra-conservative name calling. You build the tent by blending the more conservative and moderate wings of the party and then pitching what you believe to independents.

We have the added benefit of knowing that independents agree with us on issues like limited government, federalism, budget deficits etc. Let's start using that to our advantage.

I agree with your second paragraph, I disagree with the first. Part of achieving a healthy party is to remove the deadweight and those who act as a turn-off to those independents we need to win elections. Ron Paul and Glenn Beck are two such "conservatives". I'm not going to blindly follow any person who claims to be a conservative just for the sake of it. If it causes disunity, then so be it.

578 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:34:52pm

Sadly, the craziness has now infected Day-by-Day:

Day-byDay

They've also fallen into the 'wise Latina' trap.

579 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:35:33pm

re: #542 Former Belgian

Macchiavellistically

hurts brain....i cut/paste yer post.....to read at AM coffee

580 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:35:36pm

re: #578 Dark_Falcon

Maybe next they can work the "sexist" angle.

581 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:35:52pm

re: #574 coldwarrior

dead on. palin will be the Reagan redone, even if charles thinks otherwise.

the fun part of palin is that she caused my mom to become a gop activist, my dad, however, will not change his dem registration...he was a local union prez back in the day, vietnam vet, and has voted gop prez since 88 (oddly enough the same year that his son went over to west berlin...i think he voted for bush sr just to protect his lineage! /

She's not going to win because she lacks a penis. I say this as a woman. NO WOMAN is going to win the White Hose for a very, very l o n g time.

582 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:35:57pm

re: #564 Sharmuta

Bush had an excellent understanding of Macroeconomics. His down fall was TARP, he was panicked by the Treasury to save friends and a former employer of his Treasury Secretary. And to let their primary competitor die. Pure fraud. On the part of Paulson. A disaster that gave the Dems cover. 700 billion of pure corruption. Allowing another 2 Trillion in short term spending with long term commitments to follow.

583 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:36:45pm

re: #582 pat

We were in deficit spending for years before 0bama.

584 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:36:56pm

Time for me to get some sleeps, y'all be nice to philbert here.

/

585 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:37:11pm

re: #572 Floral Giraffe

PIE!

Muffins!

586 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:37:11pm

re: #552 Iron Fist

Thanks, IF

587 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:37:55pm

re: #576 Thanos

No, not if it means toting DI idiots along for the ride. Had it with that. No. Not if it means toting jerks who pretend they are for the budget but who are really going to kill any chance of gaining Republican seats in populous states through spending more time on Socon issues than budget issues. That gets us the perma-lose. Not going there. No thanks.

Now I am done with you and your hijacking attempt. The beatings will continue until Socon morale improves.

The funny thing is I haven't even mentioned social conservative issues once in this thread and yet you assume I am one. And yet, on the contrary, I'm probably more anti-creationist then you are.

Are you having fun slaying your non-existent boogeymen?

588 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:38:05pm

Namaste, y'all
/listen to the music
589 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:38:19pm

re: #571 freetoken

Well, good for you.

...yet you throw that out as if we (the lgf collective) somehow believe ...

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

590 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:39:23pm

re: #583 Sharmuta

We were in deficit spending for years before 0bama.

Note lower chart; gross debt as percentage of GNP.
Image: File:USDebt.png

591 Randall Gross  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:39:46pm

Heroes

592 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:39:53pm

re: #581 Sharmuta

She's not going to win because she lacks a penis. I say this as a woman. NO WOMAN is going to win the White Hose for a very, very l o n g time.

thatcher

593 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:40:42pm

Me too. I'm worn out. Have a good evening folks.

594 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:40:44pm

re: #583 Sharmuta

Bush was a push over for letting everyone spend. But the percentage to GDP was well within norms. So your point is......? Was he a spendthrift? Absolutely. I have taken more crap for taking on Bush here than any other site.

595 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:40:48pm

re: #581 Sharmuta

She's not going to win because she lacks a penis. I say this as a woman. NO WOMAN is going to win the White Hose for a very, very l o n g time.

We'd have one right now if the MSM hadn't fallen in love with the O last year.

596 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:40:49pm

re: #559 pat

I will assure all of you, there will be no end to the disaster Obamanomics has caused. It will out live all of us. There are examples of severe wartime spending not destroying economies, mainly because of rationing building pent up demand. But there has never been a case of civilian pork of the nature we see now not hobbling a nation with economic disaster. We are no more than another Mexico now. Your kids will live with half of what you have now. And Obama wishes to compound the problem by eliminating the production of energy components in America( refineries, oil exploration, coal, nuclear power) with his bizarre Cap and Trade schemes and politically motivated environmental regulations and laws.. This will drive all American energy component production overseas. The Saudis and Venezuela couls own this nation in a decade.

So amnesty won't be so bad after all.

597 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:41:05pm

re: #590 jaunte

Note lower chart; gross debt as percentage of GNP.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Interesting how it started coming down when fiscal responsibility was in control of Congress. They got rid of the balanced budget champion, and it went right back up.

598 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:41:15pm

re: #592 coldwarrior

Not American.

599 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:41:36pm

re: #595 sattv4u2

I don't think so.

600 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:42:10pm

Am I the only person in America that if there is anything good on cable..( I have brighthouse) You have to order the Channel.. Then next week all the good movings are on different channels you've never heard off meanwhile you are paying for reruns of VFest 2008 on the old channels..Not to worry..
Next week all the cool movies will be on another 700 available channels we can offer you on an introductory rate...9.99/mo..
Brighthouse better be counting their blessings....In a few years my IPod will be running all my media Streams...
/gentle rant.. I still can't a movie to watch..hold on

601 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:42:34pm

re: #588 Killgore Trout

I love Jack Nicholson.

Heeeere's Johnny!

602 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:42:49pm

re: #539 HoosierHoops

Hold on..uglyst superstar ever..Let me think...throw this out..
1. Babe Ruth..Huge star..But seriously..That boy was ......not pretty?
2. Mike Tyson..The youngest world boxing champion of all time...The face tatoo's have been an upgrade..
3. Ty Cobb.. The most talented greatest baseball players of all time..
Also the most vile bigot piece of shit person that ever walked the face of the earth...
/

Check this guy out...

603 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:43:30pm

re: #599 Sharmuta

I don't think so.

You don't think Hillary would have beaten McCain? Sorry, she was polling as well aganst him as Obama right up to the convention/ coronation

604 Rugby the Clovrfield Momster  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:44:10pm

re: #27 Occasional Reader

Um... sorry, that's just not enough. Noonan is essentially cheering for, well, identity politics. I'm more than a little surprised.

HELLO! iam rugby and i am a cloverfield monster from planet Colverfield (but i used to be a rat from EARrth) and i wsih somebody would plz define "identiyty politics" for me?! because i am confused.

i mean if hypothetically Presidnet Obama nominated me as the first Cloverfiled-monster-American on the supreme court, i would want to be able to experss pride in my cloverfield monster heritage & my affection for other cloverfield monsters & how far we had come as an ethnic minority w/o people saying "Ms. Clooverfield-Monster! shame on you for dragging your identity polictics into these august confrimation proceedings!"

[ ...pausig to eat a space-schoolbus full of DELICIOUS SCHOOLCHILDERN from planet Kremulon-ζ... ]

mmm, that was just what my gigantic tummy was craving. so anyway, when does it go from just havign an identity to "identity poilitics?" that is what im trying to suss out here.

love,

RUGBY!

605 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:44:29pm

re: #603 sattv4u2

You don't think Hillary would have beaten McCain? Sorry, she was polling as well aganst him as Obama right up to the convention/ coronation

She would have certainly beat McCain. And I would have rather seen her in there than Obama, McCain or Palin.

606 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:45:54pm

re: #598 Sharmuta

Not American.


thatcher saved england from the same crap we are getting into now.

gubment owning car companies...british leyland, destroyed MG and JAG. brit socialism expanded until maggie said no.

so why not palin, her state needs no bail out

607 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:46:01pm

re: #605 Walter L. Newton

She would have certainly beat McCain. And I would have rather seen her in there than Obama, McCain or Palin.

Hell, if (when) Obama flubs I would fully expect her to make a run at him from the inside come 2011

608 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:46:12pm

I'm NOT a Peggy fan, but I think her "negotiate like an adult" theme, should be listened to. A civilized dialog will be difficult to achieve.
Screaming is hard to listen to, or debate.

609 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:46:26pm

re: #607 sattv4u2

Hell, if (when) Obama flubs I would fully expect her to make a run at him from the inside come 20112012

damn fat thumb

610 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:46:56pm

re: #605 Walter L. Newton

the cankles..... right?

611 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:48:42pm

Good night, Lizards.

Good night, Rugby

612 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:48:50pm

re: #606 coldwarrior

And the UK has a history of women rulers (Queens) that we don't have here. I'm sorry if it upsets you, but the level of misogyny I witnessed in the last election has led me to conclude women are not yet electable to the highest office in this country.

And I reject satt's argument as well. It was precisely the same misogyny that tossed Hillary under the bus as it was Sarah. There's a John Lennon song about this, and it's still true.

613 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:48:58pm

re: #610 WindHorse

the cankles..... right?

Does not compute?

614 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:49:11pm

re: #611 Bloodnok

Good night, rhino. ;)

615 Mich-again  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:49:57pm

The economy was a train wreck waiting to happen for at least a couple decades and probably longer. Its BS to blame Obama for the whole mess. History Professors and Economists can debate over what got us here but the most productive thing our politicians can do now is figure out how to rebuild confidence and get the economic flywheel spinning again.

As for the Chicken Littles like Glen Beck, they make the problem worse by spending all their effort running around screaming The sky is falling!

Then again, with ad revenue down like it is, media pundits have to make a big noise to get noticed, so reason and logic get pushed aside for histrionics and grandstanding.

616 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:50:07pm

re: #612 Sharmuta

And the UK has a history of women rulers (Queens) that we don't have here. I'm sorry if it upsets you, but the level of misogyny I witnessed in the last election has led me to conclude women are not yet electable to the highest office in this country.

And I reject satt's argument as well. It was precisely the same misogyny that tossed Hillary under the bus as it was Sarah. There's a John Lennon song about this, and it's still true.

You know that I know the song. And you're right. 'night!

617 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:50:08pm

re: #451 NelsFree

Gnosis:
Intuitive apprehension of spiritual truths, an esoteric form of knowledge sought by the Gnostics
Word!
/I never gnew!
Now I'm worn out... G'nite.

The most irritating thing about the Gnostics was their habit of ending every sentence with, "Y'gno?"

618 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:50:26pm

re: #616 Bloodnok

{Bloodnok}

619 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:50:38pm

re: #612 Sharmuta

And the UK has a history of women rulers (Queens) that we don't have here. I'm sorry if it upsets you, but the level of misogyny I witnessed in the last election has led me to conclude women are not yet electable to the highest office in this country.

And I reject satt's argument as well. It was precisely the same misogyny that tossed Hillary under the bus as it was Sarah. There's a John Lennon song about this, and it's still true.

Sharmuta, do you think th esex or the race agenda is harder for us to overcome?

620 pat  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:50:51pm

re: #596 Flyers1974

I am eating Mexican tonight. Ole!. I am Hispanic in part, a large portion of my family is of Mexican origin (including my most beloved, lol). I say Sotomayor is a delusional racist! So there.
I do not remember being so talkative. Must be the cerveza. I shall rest.

621 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:51:08pm

re: #619 Floral Giraffe

Sharmuta, do you think th esex or the race agenda is harder for us to overcome?

Sex! Because women are misogynists too.

622 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:51:24pm

re: #581 Sharmuta

She's not going to win because she lacks a penis. I say this as a woman. NO WOMAN is going to win the White Hose for a very, very l o n g time.

I would have completely agreed with you a couple of years ago, but never in my wildest dreams would I have predicted that a black guy with the middle name Hussein whose father was a Muslim could become President either, had you asked me two years ago. If you'd asked me in 2002 when that might happen, I'd have said never.

623 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:51:39pm

re: #612 Sharmuta

And the UK has a history of women rulers (Queens) that we don't have here. I'm sorry if it upsets you, but the level of misogyny I witnessed in the last election has led me to conclude women are not yet electable to the highest office in this country.

And I reject satt's argument as well. It was precisely the same misogyny that tossed Hillary under the bus as it was Sarah. There's a John Lennon song about this, and it's still true.

there is, and the lennon song may be true...but i dont buy it.

624 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:52:40pm

re: #621 Sharmuta

Sex! Because women are misogynists too.

women are FAR worse than men in that regard (at least in my experience)

625 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:52:43pm

re: #612 Sharmuta

anti woman didn't sink Hillary

Pro Messiah/ Rock Star/ American Idol mentality did

626 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:52:53pm

Palin does have a penis..... (thank yew Todd)

She won't win because not enough women understand this fact.

627 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:54:33pm

re: #626 WindHorse

Palin does have a penis..... (thank yew Todd)

She won't win because not enough women understand this fact.


?

xplain

628 Clemente  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:54:41pm

re: #585 NJDhockeyfan

Muffins!

Sammich?

Oops, too late...

629 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:54:48pm

re: #624 srb1976

women are FAR worse than men in that regard (at least in my experience)

Try telling some lady friends of yours women are misogynists too, and you'll see why it's a bigger problem than it is with men. Women don't think they can be misogynists, but they're not being honest.

630 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:55:00pm

re: #626 WindHorse

Palin does have a penis..... (thank yew Todd)

She won't win because not enough women understand this fact.

Drinking moonshine tonight? /

631 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:55:11pm

re: #615 Mich-again

The economy was a train wreck waiting to happen for at least a couple decades and probably longer. Its BS to blame Obama for the whole mess. History Professors and Economists can debate over what got us here but the most productive thing our politicians can do now is figure out how to rebuild confidence and get the economic flywheel spinning again.

As for the Chicken Littles like Glen Beck, they make the problem worse by spending all their effort running around screaming The sky is falling!

Then again, with ad revenue down like it is, media pundits have to make a big noise to get noticed, so reason and logic get pushed aside for histrionics and grandstanding.

But many think Obama's responses to the economy are a socialist scheme. As if the path to political power in America is in advocating socialism.

632 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:55:26pm

re: #625 sattv4u2

anti woman didn't sink Hillary

Pro Messiah/ Rock Star/ American Idol mentality did

You seem to think pro-0bama and misogyny weren't related.

633 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:55:31pm

re: #612 Sharmuta

And the UK has a history of women rulers (Queens) that we don't have here. I'm sorry if it upsets you, but the level of misogyny I witnessed in the last election has led me to conclude women are not yet electable to the highest office in this country.

And I reject satt's argument as well. It was precisely the same misogyny that tossed Hillary under the bus as it was Sarah. There's a John Lennon song about this, and it's still true.

That's a good point. In addition to the individual attacks on each of them, they were both on the receiving end of identical misogynistic ones. Much the same dynamic is happening now with Sotomoyer.

634 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:57:29pm

re: #631 Flyers1974

i must admit that i do not understand the broad street bully's theme?

pls xplnn

635 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:57:34pm

re: #632 Sharmuta

You seem to think pro-0bama and misogyny weren't related.

No, I seem to understand what brought Obama to the forefront.

636 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:57:50pm

re: #629 Sharmuta

Try telling some lady friends of yours women are misogynists too, and you'll see why it's a bigger problem than it is with men. Women don't think they can be misogynists, but they're not being honest.

It's funny really, I have less trouble where i work being the only woman on my shift, than I did working in the office with a whole bunch of other women.....we (as a sex) are just not very nice to each other. Individually we can get over it, but as group......not really

637 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:58:06pm

re: #631 Flyers1974

In 0bama's case, the path consists of watering those tendencies down until one is in office.

638 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:59:10pm

re: #636 srb1976

had to deal with just what you are saying....i was the only male for miles around.

639 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:59:40pm

re: #635 sattv4u2

What makes you think they're unrelated?

640 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:59:55pm

re: #629 Sharmuta

Women don't think they can be misogynists, but they're not being honest.

Absolutely. There is an excellent book by Phyllis Chesler called "Women's Inhumanity to Women" that addresses that exact point: sexism and misogyny by women.
One of her topics is the amount of venom directed at her by the feminist community for even daring to raise the issue. Despite the extensive feminist scholarship and feminist work she'd done in the past, she was excoriated for it. It runs counter to the "sisterhood" mythology.

641 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:00:25pm

re: #640 iceweasel

I've been pimping that book for months! Excellent book.

642 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:00:34pm

re: #575 Flyers1974

Teleprompter - Not terribly compelling evil to most.
Bowling/Special Olympics joke - The Dems don't care and I thought the Republicans were against P.C.
Obama laughing - Laugh and the world laughs with you.

Oh, go piss up a rope.

643 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:01:26pm

re: #599 Sharmuta

I don't think so.

We'll never know. Since we're all speculating, I'll say she could have, would have, probably should have. My next speculation is that it will not be a very long time before we have a woman POTUS. If Obama and company had said it will be a very long time before we have a black POTUS, he would not be sitting in the Oval Office. I consider it a dire pronouncement to predict no women, and I shy from dire.

644 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:01:33pm

re: #638 coldwarrior

had to deal with just what you are saying....i was the only male for miles around.

There're jsut not many women in steel mills, once you get out of the admin side......not many men in admin.
I would rather work with men than women any day.... less crap...women are mean to each other (in my experience)

645 The Drizzle  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:02:32pm

Wow. After 8 years of the most vile behavior the Dems. could muster towards Republicans, Bush, and their own country, I find out WE should be ashamed of ourselves for not slurping Obamas package. If I wanted to vote for a politician that acts like a Democrat,I wolud vote for a fucking Democrat. No thank you. Obama sucks, and I guarantee you that in four years, most of you (mobys excluded) will agree. P.S. I hope he fails. At everything.

646 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:02:33pm

re: #628 Clemente

Sammich?

Oops, too late...

Porkgasm!

647 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:03:26pm

re: #639 Sharmuta

What makes you think they're unrelated?

Because the mindset that brought him to the forefront and the backing he recieved had nothing, I repeat NOT ONE THING to do with a backlash against "women" nor the feeling that there was a glass ceiling

648 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:03:36pm

re: #643 Silvergirl

I think few women lack the guts to take what Sarah took. We'll see the same poo flung at the next female candidate bold enough to try because now it's "mainstream" to treat female candidates like that.

649 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:04:05pm

re: #633 iceweasel

That's a good point. In addition to the individual attacks on each of them, they were both on the receiving end of identical misogynistic ones. Much the same dynamic is happening now with Sotomoyer.

Here is the dynamics that is happening with Sotomayor. She has made statement indicating that her Latina heritage makes her opinions superior than others opinions. Period. That's it. The press secretary Gibbs said that she chose her words badly and Obama has backed up that statement.

And unfortunately, you have some conservative idiots who have gone too far in their commenting on this issue.

But, other than the conservative idiots, there are many moderate conservatives who find Sotomayors comments very bothersome.

Sotomayor herself is solely responsible for the dynamics.

650 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:05:19pm

re: #636 srb1976

It's funny really, I have less trouble where i work being the only woman on my shift, than I did working in the office with a whole bunch of other women.....we (as a sex) are just not very nice to each other. Individually we can get over it, but as group......not really

On a similar note, it was only relatively recently that the problem of bullying was recognised to be something that girls engage in too. Girls and women in a group adopt strategies that are very aggressive and designed to exclude and hurt others, but teachers and adults in the past didn't recognise this--all their attention was on the more overt forms of aggression boys engage in (hitting, etc.)

651 Korla Pundit  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:05:31pm

Ah, yes. Peggy Noonan.

This BS line that it's people on the right who need to "grow up" is now the standard fallback from all of these supposed "conservatives" who endorsed and voted for Obama. Boy are their faces red. Or should be.

Now that the early evidence is flooding in that Obama is already one of the worst Presidents ever, the intolerant intellectuals who embraced "the imaginary moderate" all have to make Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh look like the small-minded exclusionists who made them do it.

But it was small-tent thinking that made such brilliant luninaries as Noonan sickened at the notion of having Sarah Palin on the ticket, and not because of her religion. It was because of her class. It's all about class for the Noonans and the Powells and the Buckleys of the world. Palin should have known her place.

They just hate proles. I guess they never noticed that Reagan was one, too.

And so, they supported the most statist candidate to ever run for the Presidency. Even though the GOP nominated John McCain, perhaps the most centrist, reaching-across-the-aisle, inclusionary man who ever pushed out the right-wing base. Are our memories so short? Peggy, you had a chance to vote for Mr. Center himself, and you rejected him in favor of a redistributionist with corrupt, criminal, racist and terrorist connections, and absolutely no job history.

Peggy, congratulations on how mature you think you are. But we will all remember at the end of Obama's Presidency, when we're picking up the pieces of our lives, the people who put him there.

652 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:05:47pm

re: #647 sattv4u2

Right- because backing an unqualified man over a woman with slightly more experience isn't misogyny.

653 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:05:57pm

re: #648 Sharmuta

I think few women lack the guts to take what Sarah took. We'll see the same poo flung at the next female candidate bold enough to try because now it's "mainstream" to treat female candidates like that.

Agree on the second part.
Disagree on the first part about few women having the guts.

654 little boomer  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:06:10pm

re: #581 Sharmuta

She's not going to win because she lacks a penis. I say this as a woman. NO WOMAN is going to win the White Hose for a very, very l o n g time.

Are you implying that BHO has a penis?

655 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:06:30pm

re: #654 little boomer

LOL

656 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:06:40pm

Hey Night Lizards! It wasn't too bad in Near Iowa today.

I AM so glad it is the FNDT. I've been needing this. I have a fresh pot on.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

657 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:06:43pm

re: #649 Walter L. Newton

....and solely responsible for her words...

658 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:06:44pm

re: #634 coldwarrior

i must admit that i do not understand the broad street bully's theme?

pls xplnn

Excellent reference on your part. Though, they haven't been bullies for a long, long time sadly. I was building on the other poster's comment that the economic crisis was a long time coming. My thought is that Obama's done what he has in response to the crisis, and not because of any desire on his part to turn us into a socialists. One can obviously think the actions are bad, but to call him a socialist is way off base in my opinion. Furthermore, I've always thought the US to be a pretty conservative country. Bringing socialism seems to be an odd way of holding onto power.

659 jaunte  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:06:58pm

re: #645 The Drizzle

Wow. After 8 years of the most vile behavior the Dems. could muster towards Republicans, Bush, and their own country, I find out WE should be ashamed of ourselves for not slurping Obamas package.

Are you implying that BHO has a package?

660 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:07:06pm

re: #641 Sharmuta

I've been pimping that book for months! Excellent book.

You're kidding! i LOVE that book!

661 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:07:20pm

re: #653 Silvergirl

Really? You think most women can tolerate their motherhood being questioned like Sarah's was? I don't.

662 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:07:28pm

WAY OFF TOPIC

If any of you want to feel really really good about yourselves, do what I did today (and have done in the past) Go volunteer at your states Special Olympics. There pure pride and joy of the athletes leaves me glowing for months every year after I do it!

663 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:08:17pm

re: #662 sattv4u2

right on.

664 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:09:23pm

thunderstorm just blasted thru here...

clean air...

anyone want some?

665 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:09:24pm

re: #660 iceweasel

You're kidding! i LOVE that book!

Nope- not kidding. I pimped it here. Others can back me up that I've pimped it a lot. I even got a Lizard guy to pick it up and read it.

666 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:09:26pm
667 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:09:41pm

re: #664 coldwarrior

thunderstorm just blasted thru here...

clean air...

anyone want some?

Where's here, general location?

668 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:10:11pm

re: #622 iceweasel

I would have completely agreed with you a couple of years ago, but never in my wildest dreams would I have predicted that a black guy with the middle name Hussein whose father was a Muslim could become President either, had you asked me two years ago. If you'd asked me in 2002 when that might happen, I'd have said never.

I distinctly recall being dropped off at the BART station by a coworker in the spring of 2007, both of us laughing at the idea that a woman or a black man was going to get the Democratic presidential nomination, let alone be president.

I reminded her of this last time we met up.

669 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:10:20pm

re: #661 Sharmuta

Really? You think most women can tolerate their motherhood being questioned like Sarah's was? I don't.

What I don't think I could take is that it was acceptable to question it. Certain topics should be off the table no matter how public you make yourself, and children are one of those topics.... I know I couldn't stand up to that kind of poo flinging, not with any kind of grace anyway

670 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:10:26pm

Ahhhhhh!

Finally settling down, cracked open a Stone Imperial Russian Stout.

Any left over troll haunches on the grill?

671 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:10:56pm

re: #652 Sharmuta

Right- because backing an unqualified man over a woman with slightly more experience isn't misogyny.

In this case it was NOT, Again it was the Pro Messiah/ Rock Star/ American Idol mentality. Obama had it, Hillary did NOT

Ask yourself, what are the most popular types of TV shows on these days? What type of persona trumps all others in the media? What about sports figures. Which ones are more "popular"? The old pros who quietly get the job done, or the young flashy ones with all the "bling"?

672 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:11:05pm

re: #642 MandyManners

Oh, go piss up a rope.

But why? Am I wrong in pointing out that a conservative should be the last one critisizing Obama for non-PC behavior?

673 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:11:06pm
674 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:11:20pm

re: #668 SanFranciscoZionist

I distinctly recall being dropped off at the BART station by a coworker in the spring of 2007, both of us laughing at the idea that a woman or a black man was going to get the Democratic presidential nomination, let alone be president.

I reminded her of this last time we met up.

It's possible we might get two women in a presidential election in the future: one Dem and one Rep.

675 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:11:21pm

re: #661 Sharmuta

Really? You think most women can tolerate their motherhood being questioned like Sarah's was? I don't.

That was just one of the crap clods thrown, though it was a big stinking one. Women can tolerate, and they can fight back. Sarah Palin would love to have a whole string of do-overs if she could. She was severely hampered by the McCain people, though I don't forget that she would still be an unknown if not for John McCain.

676 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:12:07pm

re: #666 Racer X

Ahhhhhhh!

The beast post. It burns! It burns!

677 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:13:14pm

re: #675 Silvergirl

I wasn't trying to imply it was the only poo- just my opinion that it's the one most women would draw the line at. I think the overall effect of this last election will be that good, qualified women will think twice about running for higher office, and that will keep a good number of potentially great leaders sidelined.

678 I Need A Bigger Gun  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:14:06pm

re: #99 Charles

Sotomayor is not a "racist."

This talking point is overheated and false, and more importantly -- it's a losing strategy. You only hurt yourself by insisting on it.

Actually, she might be a racist (versus a bigot) in this instance. The definition of racist is the belief in the superiority of one race over another. She thinks she can come to a better conclusion on things because she is Hispanic and not white. That would seem to be a feeling of superiority in her race versus the white race. Hence, she is, in this instance, a racist. The term "racist" is bandied about when it shouldn't be; most of the time the word should be "bigot". She isn't a bigot. She is a racist.

679 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:14:06pm

re: #677 Sharmuta

.....couldn't we say the same for good, qualified men?

680 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:14:10pm

re: #658 Flyers1974

Excellent reference on your part. Though, they haven't been bullies for a long, long time sadly. I was building on the other poster's comment that the economic crisis was a long time coming. My thought is that Obama's done what he has in response to the crisis, and not because of any desire on his part to turn us into a socialists. One can obviously think the actions are bad, but to call him a socialist is way off base in my opinion. Furthermore, I've always thought the US to be a pretty conservative country. Bringing socialism seems to be an odd way of holding onto power.

i cant reply without getting banned.

681 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:14:18pm

re: #649 Walter L. Newton

When I said the same dynamic is playing out with Sotomoyer, I specifically meant the dynamic behind the exclusively misogynistic attacks--not all attacks on her, just the misogynistic ones. Stuff like this:

G. Gordon Liddy On Sotomayor: ‘Let’s Hope That The Key Conferences Aren’t When She’s Menstruating’

Let’s hope that the key conferences aren’t when she’s menstruating or something, or just before she’s going to menstruate. That would really be bad. Lord knows what we would get then.

Audio at link. [Link: thinkprogress.org...]

As Sharmuta suggests, these kind of attacks are out there and are applied to all women regardless of political party. It's a big problem.

682 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:14:21pm

re: #672 Flyers1974

But why? Am I wrong in pointing out that a conservative should be the last one critisizing Obama for non-PC behavior?

What the fuck does PC have to do with the disgusting act of making fun of mentally retarded people? NOTHING.

683 HarryTheHawk  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:14:26pm

Meanwhile, the suave and sophisticated "moderates" in the White House continue carrying out their economic recovery plan: [Link: www.gop.gov...]

684 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:15:10pm

re: #667 Walter L. Newton

sw pennsylvania

685 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:15:41pm

re: #665 Sharmuta

Wow, VERY cool.

686 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:15:43pm

re: #679 WindHorse

.....couldn't we say the same for good, qualified men?

Name a male politician that's been attacked concerning his fatherhood.

687 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:15:52pm

re: #677 Sharmuta

re: #679 WindHorse

.....couldn't we say the same for good, qualified men?

UPDING

I persoannly know some very good qualified men that have NOT run in the past because they do not want everyone from themselves to their third cousin on their step uncles side twice removed being scrutinized

688 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:15:54pm

re: #681 iceweasel

What a sexist asshole!

689 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:16:46pm

re: #685 iceweasel

I think the book is just as important for men to read as it is for women. It would help all men to understand women better.

690 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:16:48pm

re: #686 Sharmuta

Name a male politician that's been attacked concerning his fatherhood.

Guilianni's relationship with hios son was put out ther right away

691 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:17:37pm

re: #686 Sharmuta

fair enough.... but I think the circus that has become "getting elected" transcends sexuality.....

692 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:17:38pm

re: #676 Racer X

racer x, i have 4 speed racer t shirts, and a white two seat sports car...are you my long lost brother?

693 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:17:44pm

re: #672 Flyers1974

But why? Am I wrong in pointing out that a conservative should be the last one critisizing Obama for non-PC behavior?

Conservatives lose when they allow insipid liberal fuckwits to frame the debate, no matter how trivial the issue. I.E. 'You're a conservative- you're not supposed to care about that'....

I despised 0bama's stupid little throwaway line about the Special Olympics and how he got a free pass on it after a token apology. Am I being PC?

Now go fuck yourself with a red-hot curling iron.

694 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:17:48pm

re: #677 Sharmuta

I wasn't trying to imply it was the only poo- just my opinion that it's the one most women would draw the line at. I think the overall effect of this last election will be that good, qualified women will think twice about running for higher office, and that will keep a good number of potentially great leaders sidelined.

The overall effect of not only the last election, but most elections are hair-raising enough to keep anyone sidelined. It takes a certain personality to run for higher office and if the desire is great enough, neither man nor woman will falter. They may think twice, but if they're in, they'll do what it takes.

695 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:18:00pm

re: #691 WindHorse

fair enough.... but I think the circus that has become "getting elected" transcends sexuality.....

You mean gender?

696 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:18:05pm

re: #686 Sharmuta

Name a male politician that's been attacked concerning his fatherhood.

I can only think of one that should have been attacked: John Edwards.

697 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:18:27pm

re: #662 sattv4u2

WAY OFF TOPIC

If any of you want to feel really really good about yourselves, do what I did today (and have done in the past) Go volunteer at your states Special Olympics. There pure pride and joy of the athletes leaves me glowing for months every year after I do it!

I worked for 2 semesters for credit When I went to Napa JUCO at Napa State Mental institute..I worked mostly the S and T wards for 2 hours a day..Mostly DD and DS wards...Some claim that was easy credits hang out with 'Retards'
To me..It was one of the most impactful periods of my life....There were nights i came home and shed tears...Those weren't classes, they were not credits..
Those were souls I shall never forget...It made a big impact on me...

698 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:18:32pm

re: #686 Sharmuta

re: #690 sattv4u2

Guilianni's relationship with hios son was put out ther right away

Hell,, Reagans relationship with Ronny Jr was also scrutinized

699 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:18:45pm

re: #695 Sharmuta

yes.... I was trying to say it in nowspeak....

700 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:18:55pm

re: #677 Sharmuta

I wasn't trying to imply it was the only poo- just my opinion that it's the one most women would draw the line at. I think the overall effect of this last election will be that good, qualified women will think twice about running for higher office, and that will keep a good number of potentially great leaders sidelined.

I think most of the good, qualified people already think twice about running for office, leaving us to choose from amongst a bunch of characters like the ones currently running the show

701 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:19:01pm

re: #690 sattv4u2

Guilianni's relationship with hios son was put out ther right away

Did they try to say Rudy wasn't his father?

702 Clemente  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:19:06pm

re: #646 NJDhockeyfan

Porkgasm!

Just a tri-tippling nibble, actually. There's fixins for another - my nature says I'll offer Mandy and Sharm halvsies. Self-preservation, y'know.

703 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:19:48pm

re: #693 Fenway_Nation

Conservatives lose when they allow insipid liberal fuckwits to frame the debate, no matter how trivial the issue. I.E. 'You're a conservative- you're not supposed to care about that'....

I despised 0bama's stupid little throwaway line about the Special Olympics and how he got a free pass on it after a token apology. Am I being PC?

Now go fuck yourself with a red-hot curling iron.

That's right. Conservatives are not allowed to be caring.

704 freetoken  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:19:54pm

re: #678 I Need A Bigger Gun

. She thinks she can come to a better conclusion on things because she is Hispanic and not white.

She did not say that, exactly.

It appears to be what you heard, though.

705 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:20:29pm

re: #674 Gus 802

It's possible we might get two women in a presidential election in the future: one Dem and one Rep.

I've often thought that we won't have a strong woman candidate until more women rise thru the ranks of the military. A female medal-of-honor winner, or decorated fighter pilot that has also been elected to a high office.

During the election I heard more men (of all colors) say that "we aren't ready for a woman POTUS". I think there is a "toughness" that some men look for and combat-type military service would help.

706 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:20:39pm

re: #700 Opilio

I think most of the good, qualified people already think twice about running for office, leaving us to choose from amongst a bunch of characters like the ones currently running the show

I can't run for office. I'm not electable. Also- I've made poor choices in words in the past.

707 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:21:27pm

re: #701 Sharmuta

wait a minute.... I am losing this thought? Regarding Sarah Palin, did anyone take seriously the notion that she was the father of her child's baby?

/

708 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:21:38pm

re: #684 coldwarrior

sw pennsylvania

Murtha-land?!?!?

709 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:22:09pm

re: #701 Sharmuta

Did they try to say Rudy wasn't his father?

No, and Hillary wasn't questioned about her mothering qualifications and methods either

710 Racer X  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:22:22pm

re: #692 coldwarrior

racer x, i have 4 speed racer t shirts, and a white two seat sports car...are you my long lost brother?

Spritle? Is that you?

711 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:22:40pm

re: #682 MandyManners

What the fuck does PC have to do with the disgusting act of making fun of mentally retarded people? NOTHING.

I think calling Obama's comment disgusting to be a gross exaggeration. It seemed like an off the cuff remark and I assume it was. Everyone who is offended by a joke or remark says the same thing as you, just more politely: What the fuck does PC have to do with [insert here what you are sensitive about]

712 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:23:20pm

re: #706 Sharmuta

Sharmuta, I know you have stated this in the past.... and, I am curious as to why you say this..... BUT, I realize this forum isn't necessarily the place to press this issue....

On the basis of your thoughts and words.... you ARE electable.

713 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:23:22pm

re: #705 ggt

I've often thought that we won't have a strong woman candidate until more women rise thru the ranks of the military. A female medal-of-honor winner, or decorated fighter pilot that has also been elected to a high office.

During the election I heard more men (of all colors) say that "we aren't ready for a woman POTUS". I think there is a "toughness" that some men look for and combat-type military service would help.

Increasingly, though, I think that's becoming less and less of a necessary for male politicians.

And I expect such experience would also come around and hit a woman in the back of the head--'toughness' easily crosses the line into 'not feminine enough', which was something leveled routinely at Hillary.

Just some thoughts.

714 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:24:38pm

re: #705 ggt

I've often thought that we won't have a strong woman candidate until more women rise thru the ranks of the military. A female medal-of-honor winner, or decorated fighter pilot that has also been elected to a high office.

During the election I heard more men (of all colors) say that "we aren't ready for a woman POTUS". I think there is a "toughness" that some men look for and combat-type military service would help.

That could be the case. It would certainly be a plus for many voters although I don't think prior military service has as much of an impact on voters in recent years. I'm open to a qualified candidate regardless of race or gender.

715 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:24:39pm

re: #686 Sharmuta

Name a male politician that's been attacked concerning his fatherhood.

This is an excellent point. Suddenly, during the 08 campaign it was cool for liberal women to tell Sarah Palin she was neglecting her kids and parading them all over the country when they should be in school. Hillary was said to be pimping out her daughter because Chelsea was campaigning for her. Women are hit hard on the parental thing. It's a non-issue for men.

716 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:24:54pm

re: #711 Flyers1974

I think calling Obama's comment disgusting to be a gross exaggeration. It seemed like an off the cuff remark and I assume it was. Everyone who is offended by a joke or remark says the same thing as you, just more politely: What the fuck does PC have to do with [insert here what you are sensitive about]

Put the shoe on the other foot. Imagine if Bush and said that. Bush was the stammering fool to the left, yet it's Obama who spent 20% of a presser stammering, urr, ahhh, umm.

717 jvic  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:25:17pm

re: #606 coldwarrior

thatcher saved england from the same crap we are getting into now.

gubment owning car companies...british leyland, destroyed MG and JAG. brit socialism expanded until maggie said no.

Thatcher, like Reagan, had a coherent political philosophy that she could articulate.

When Palin was floundering in the media, I told myself that being not up to speed is not the same thing as being out of one's league. But has she been coming up to speed since the election? I haven't seen posts mentioning her presence at conservative think tanks.

so why not palin, her state needs no bail out

USA Today, 10/27/2008:

But Palin didn't cut the size of government as mayor of Wasilla, and she hasn't done so as Alaska's governor, city and state budget records show. Spending in fast-growing Wasilla increased by 55% during her tenure from 1996-2002, records show. In nearly two years as governor, she has presided over a 31% spending hike by a state government that sought earmarks from Washington even as it reaped billions from higher oil prices and Palin-backed tax increases on oil companies.

Bill McAllister, a governor's office spokesman in Alaska, said the state lived through painful budget cuts in the 1990s when low oil prices restricted revenue. "There's an element of catch-up here," he said.

So what would be the 'element of catch-up' if a Palin presidency followed Obama's?
**************
I came across Palin's name before she was a national figure and had great expectations for her. I haven't completely written Sarah off, but my opinion of her is not what it was.

718 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:25:48pm

Anybody that really, really has their shit together isn't going to run for office, sit on the bench, be nominated for SCOTUS, ....etc. Becuase of the goddamn freaking insanity that they are put through. Lee Iacoca Got Chrysler(?) out of a hole in the late 70s early 80s and there were rumblings about getting him to run for office. Lee said not only no. but fuck no. I think we will see more and more of this.

719 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:25:56pm

re: #711 Flyers1974

In what world is making fun of mentally retarded people not disgusting?

720 sattv4u2  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:26:08pm

well kiddies. i'm hitting the sack. I have another 12 hours with The Olympians again starting at 8

At the risk of sounding preachy,, please Please PLEASE check into volunteering at your states Special Olympics. It's a cause where there are NO losers (you especially)

721 Syrah  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:26:15pm

re: #608 Floral Giraffe

I'm NOT a Peggy fan, but I think her "negotiate like an adult" theme, should be listened to. A civilized dialog will be difficult to achieve.
Screaming is hard to listen to, or debate.

Leadership vacuums suck.

The Party is leaderless. It is nothing but a food-fight at present. In the movie Animal House, the food fight was fun. Unfortunately, We are not in a movie.

722 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:26:31pm

re: #718 pingjockey

....and, sadly, this doesn't bode well...

723 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:26:38pm

re: #689 Sharmuta

I think the book is just as important for men to read as it is for women. It would help all men to understand women better.

Completely agree. It would also educate everyone about what misogyny is and isn't. Sadly, it is not at all the provenance of one gender. It survives and endures in part precisely because women perpetuate it against other women. This is why it's endemic.

Some of the most vicious misogynistic attacks I saw against either Hillary or Palin came from other women. Just tragic.

And I constantly see misogyny on the liberal blogs coming from people I otherwise agree with when they're attacking a conservative female. It makes me sick.

724 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:26:43pm

re: #715 Silvergirl

This is an excellent point. Suddenly, during the 08 campaign it was cool for liberal women to tell Sarah Palin she was neglecting her kids and parading them all over the country when they should be in school. Hillary was said to be pimping out her daughter because Chelsea was campaigning for her. Women are hit hard on the parental thing. It's a non-issue for men.

Or worse the "who will take care of the kids if she (Palin) is elected"
two slams for the price of one....she should stay in the kitchen AND her husband is a lousy father....gotta love it
/

725 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:27:02pm

re: #713 SanFranciscoZionist

Increasingly, though, I think that's becoming less and less of a necessary for male politicians.

And I expect such experience would also come around and hit a woman in the back of the head--'toughness' easily crosses the line into 'not feminine enough', which was something leveled routinely at Hillary.

Just some thoughts.

I don't know. I think military service is going to mean more in the next few years. A lot of Vets will be coming of age--electable age.

726 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:27:42pm

re: #722 WindHorse
No it does not.

727 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:27:54pm

I cannot believe I am arguing with someone who thinks it's not disgusting to make fun of mentally retarded people.

728 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:27:56pm

yay verily Mandy.

729 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:27:57pm

re: #708 Opilio

nope, just outside, however i have relatives in murthaland that love their $7/hr job and will swear allegiance to him no matter what.

my parents left johnstown in 1968, with me at age 6months (THANK GOD),

i live in a republican district, near PGH

730 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:28:29pm

re: #722 WindHorse

....and, sadly, this doesn't bode well...

Idiocracy is prophetic.

731 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:28:30pm

re: #705 ggt

I've often thought that we won't have a strong woman candidate until more women rise thru the ranks of the military. A female medal-of-honor winner, or decorated fighter pilot that has also been elected to a high office.

During the election I heard more men (of all colors) say that "we aren't ready for a woman POTUS". I think there is a "toughness" that some men look for and combat-type military service would help.

Yeah, but then the misogynistic meme would be that she's TOO tough, TOO aggressive, a bitch and (probably) a lesbian. That's how misogyny works, women get busted no matter what they do.

732 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:28:49pm

re: #705 ggt

During the election I heard more men (of all colors) say that "we aren't ready for a woman POTUS". I think there is a "toughness" that some men look for and combat-type military service would help.

That may be, but "tough" isn't high on the list of adjectives that leap to mind when pondering Obama. At least not on my list.

733 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:28:57pm

re: #727 MandyManners

I cannot believe I am arguing with someone who thinks it's not disgusting to make fun of mentally retarded people.

Here Mandy....

*hands over clue x 4*

734 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:29:26pm

re: #717 jvic

So what would be the 'element of catch-up' if a Palin presidency followed Obama's?
**************
I came across Palin's name before she was a national figure and had great expectations for her. I haven't completely written Sarah off, but my opinion of her is not what it was.

I simply didn't see much in her. (Full disclosure: I also had an immensely hostile reaction to the way the campaign presented her, and the image she projected at the convention.) But I didn't hear anything from her that made me think "Hey, this woman knows what she's talking about." Most of what she said seemed very canned, and rather uninteresting. I was interested in her when she first showed up, but there was nothing after that I could get into.

735 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:29:34pm

re: #693 Fenway_Nation

Conservatives lose when they allow insipid liberal fuckwits to frame the debate, no matter how trivial the issue. I.E. 'You're a conservative- you're not supposed to care about that'....

I despised 0bama's stupid little throwaway line about the Special Olympics and how he got a free pass on it after a token apology. Am I being PC?

Now go fuck yourself with a red-hot curling iron.

Quite an imagination you have. Be honest, this is not the first time you've thought about curling irons ibeing used in this matter is it? Yes, you are being PC. You don't get to pick and choose what is PC and what is not based on your personal sensitivities.

736 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:30:27pm

re: #720 sattv4u2

well kiddies. i'm hitting the sack. I have another 12 hours with The Olympians again starting at 8

At the risk of sounding preachy,, please Please PLEASE check into volunteering at your states Special Olympics. It's a cause where there are NO losers (you especially)

I can't deal with sports programs. Is there a Special Academic Decathalon?

737 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:30:50pm

re: #651 Korla Pundit

Now that the early evidence is flooding in that Obama is already one of the worst Presidents ever...

"Flooding in" from where, other than right-wing and extremist blogs? Links?

738 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:30:59pm

As to this whole misogyny thing. I actually thought we'd have a woman president before a black.

739 TheMatrix31  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:31:12pm

Probably been covered already in such a long thread, but....

While the message is right, I have a big problem with her incessant adulation over the "decorum" of the administration. This administration has been clueless, unprofessional, apologetic, and has often acted like a whiny, brat five year old (like the "I Won" crap, the failed-eight-years crap). Couple that with Gibbs' arrogant press conferences, and you have anything BUT what Noonan's describing here.

That was my main contention with all of this.

740 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:31:21pm

re: #735 Flyers1974

Quite an imagination you have. Be honest, this is not the first time you've thought about curling irons ibeing used in this matter is it? Yes, you are being PC. You don't get to pick and choose what is PC and what is not based on your personal sensitivities.

There is no right not to be offended.

741 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:31:36pm

re: #731 iceweasel

Yeah, but then the misogynistic meme would be that she's TOO tough, TOO aggressive, a bitch and (probably) a lesbian. That's how misogyny works, women get busted no matter what they do.

No one said that about Tammy Duckworth. Her name was bantied around alot here in Illinois.

We are in unchartered territory. Anything is possible.

742 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:32:20pm

re: #688 MandyManners

I know. He's a complete tool. Totally disgusting.

743 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:32:54pm

re: #740 jcm
That is a fact!

744 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:33:15pm

re: #740 jcm

There is no right not to be offended.

"There is no law against bad taste "

paraphrasing Larry Flynt, I believer.

745 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:33:52pm

re: #735 Flyers1974

Quite an imagination you have. Be honest, this is not the first time you've thought about curling irons ibeing used in this matter is it? Yes, you are being PC. You don't get to pick and choose what is PC and what is not based on your personal sensitivities.

I wanted to kick Obama in the ankle when that aired (can the Secret Service investigate me for saying I wanted to kick him in the ankle?) But I do agree that "PC" often gets used in a sneery way to tell people they can't demand polite behavior from others.

746 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:34:02pm

re: #719 MandyManners

In what world is making fun of mentally retarded people not disgusting?

I think you are greatly exaggerating the intent of his comment. I wouldn't even call it a joke, as it wasn't preplanned. However you want to label it, in this world, i.e., the US, most people have seemed to have gotten over this. If they've gotten over it, it couldn't have been that disgusting.

747 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:34:10pm

re: #717 jvic

So what would be the 'element of catch-up' if a Palin presidency followed Obama's?
**************
I came across Palin's name before she was a national figure and had great expectations for her. I haven't completely written Sarah off, but my opinion of her is not what it was.

I too came across Palin's name years before 2008 and thought she might provide a unique candidate for the GOP. At the time I was a bit positive about her potential but as you explain my opinion of her has changed as well.

Another name I tossed around was Condie Rice but she has expressed no interest in a presidential run. In consideration of her connection with the Bush White House and as perceived by the public I don't think it would have been a successful attempt.

748 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:34:42pm

....wow - I just read the reference to Liddy and his immense personal problems regarding women...

I am stupefied....

749 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:35:23pm

Sandman's calling.

750 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:35:37pm

re: #746 Flyers1974

you are one stupid person.

751 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:35:39pm

re: #737 ShanghaiEd
So you are happy with the debt load we've saddled the next 3 generations with? Gov't ownership of private business?
Ummm...Getting ready to sell Israel down the river?

752 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:35:51pm

re: #710 Racer X

not spritle.

i track my car, wanna race?

753 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:35:56pm

re: #735 Flyers1974

re: #735 Flyers1974

Yes, you are being PC. You don't get to pick and choose what is PC and what is not based on your personal sensitivities.

And you do?

Begging you pardon, but my thoughts, feelings and opinions on a wide array of subjects aren't to be neatly compartmentalized and put into a little box so other people can say "Well- you're not supposed to feel this way about so-and-so because you're a right-winger/conservative".

What is it the left loves so much about labels?

754 Syrah  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:36:02pm

re: #745 SanFranciscoZionist

I wanted to kick Obama in the ankle when that aired (can the Secret Service investigate me for saying I wanted to kick him in the ankle?) But I do agree that "PC" often gets used in a sneery way to tell people they can't demand polite behavior from others.

I have dealt with them. Nice people. Very professional. No sense of humor whatsoever. They make FBI agents look jovial by comparison.

755 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:36:36pm

re: #745 SanFranciscoZionist

I wanted to kick Obama in the ankle when that aired (can the Secret Service investigate me for saying I wanted to kick him in the ankle?) But I do agree that "PC" often gets used in a sneery way to tell people they can't demand polite behavior from others.

I think that's the key right there, it's the difference between polite and PC. Politeness dictates that grown ups don't pick on people who can't defend themselves. PC dictates that no one picks on anyone EVER.

756 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:37:19pm

re: #749 MandyManners

Sandman's calling.

Night MM, give The Kid a hug!

757 Throbert McGee  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:37:28pm

re: #706 Sharmuta

I can't run for office. I'm not electable. Also- I've made poor choices in words in the past.

I'm less electable than you are, so there!

758 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:37:43pm

Good evening all, what's the hot topic tonight? Have we OT-ed to puns or breasts yet? Or, am I too early?

759 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:38:12pm

re: #745 SanFranciscoZionist

I wanted to kick Obama in the ankle when that aired (can the Secret Service investigate me for saying I wanted to kick him in the ankle?) But I do agree that "PC" often gets used in a sneery way to tell people they can't demand polite behavior from others.

Believe me, I wish he hadn't said this. But we really do pick and choose what is offensive according to our own personal soft spots - and according to whether we like who said the offending thing. This is where I disassociate myself from the Democrats, meaning the tendency to get offended very easily. But according to some of the comments, including the curling iron fellow, PC is not the exclusive domain of the Dems.

760 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:38:36pm

List of current women Republican governors:

Linda Lingle

M. Jodi Rell

Sarah Palin

Jan Brewer

761 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:38:37pm

re: #758 Desert Dog

Good evening all, what's the hot topic tonight? Have we OT-ed to puns or breasts yet? Or, am I too early?

Just for our new arrival.....

762 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:39:16pm

re: #759 Flyers1974

Believe me, I wish he hadn't said this. But we really do pick and choose what is offensive according to our own personal soft spots - and according to whether we like who said the offending thing. This is where I disassociate myself from the Democrats, meaning the tendency to get offended very easily. But according to some of the comments, including the curling iron fellow, PC is not the exclusive domain of the Dems.

The curling iron comment was out of line.

763 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:39:40pm

re: #746 Flyers1974

I think you are greatly exaggerating the intent of his comment. I wouldn't even call it a joke, as it wasn't preplanned. However you want to label it, in this world, i.e., the US, most people have seemed to have gotten over this. If they've gotten over it, it couldn't have been that disgusting.

Ok, it's clear you'll defend this guy no matter what. Ultimately, it really doesn't matter. The bond markets are speaking and they don't like where the good ship America is heading.

In 4 years where the proverbial shit will have really hit the fan (have fun trying to afford a mortgage with 8-10 percent interest rates if not higher), many are going to say, "Why didn't we see this coming?", to which some of us will respond, "We did. You just weren't paying attention when it mattered."

764 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:39:50pm

re: #757 Throbert McGee

I'm less electable than you are, so there!

We can form our own "We're not electable" party!

765 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:39:58pm

re: #729 coldwarrior

nope, just outside, however i have relatives in murthaland that love their $7/hr job and will swear allegiance to him no matter what.

my parents left johnstown in 1968, with me at age 6months (THANK GOD),

i live in a republican district, near PGH

superb.

/semper ubi sub ubi

766 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:41:07pm

re: #764 Sharmuta

We can form our own "We're not electable" party!

And if elected into this honored office, I plan on doing nothing for my constituency other than raising your taxes.

//

767 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:41:07pm

re: #761 jcm

Just for our new arrival.....

Educational and entertaining!

768 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:41:10pm

re: #757 Throbert McGee

I'm even less electable than the two of you put together!

I know...we should put this to a vote!

769 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:41:14pm

I'm going to be very interested in how California responds to Meg Whitman's run for governor. Yes, it's California, but they are in a world of hurt right now.

770 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:41:43pm

re: #753 Fenway_Nation

re: #735 Flyers1974


And you do?

Begging you pardon, but my thoughts, feelings and opinions on a wide array of subjects aren't to be neatly compartmentalized and put into a little box so other people can say "Well- you're not supposed to feel this way about so-and-so because you're a right-winger/conservative".

What is it the left loves so much about labels?

Because I stated that you don't get to decide, it doesn't follow that I think that I get to decide. The drama here seems a bit contrived.

771 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:42:42pm

Completely OT, is there anything cuter than a not-quite-5 yearold boy trying to avoid going to bed? (He fell asleep this afternoon and is Not At All Tired now)

772 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:42:50pm

re: #770 Flyers1974

Because I stated that you don't get to decide, it doesn't follow that I think that I get to decide. The drama here seems a bit contrived.

No but everyone who feels offended gets to yell, PC is bullshit.

773 TheMatrix31  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:43:10pm

re: #769 Silvergirl

I'm going to be very interested in how California responds to Meg Whitman's run for governor. Yes, it's California, but they are in a world of hurt right now.

I want to leave....so badly.

774 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:43:17pm

re: #771 srb1976

Completely OT, is there anything cuter than a not-quite-5 yearold boy trying to avoid going to bed? (He fell asleep this afternoon and is Not At All Tired now)

I have an 8 year old here that does not want to bath....that is no longer cute....

775 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:43:20pm

re: #769 Silvergirl

Right now I don't think they've got enough money to get anyone to be governor! If someone wants to be governor of that mess they need their heads examined!

776 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:43:23pm

re: #771 srb1976

despite your (potential) feelings..... cherish this moment.

777 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:43:56pm

re: #771 srb1976

Completely OT, is there anything cuter than a not-quite-5 yearold boy trying to avoid going to bed? (He fell asleep this afternoon and is Not At All Tired now)

I rock them to sleep...
I use a rock about this big %P%...............%P%

/////// /-P

778 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:44:31pm

re: #775 pingjockey

Right now I don't think they've got enough money to get anyone to be governor! If someone wants to be governor of that mess they need their heads examined!

Try trolling the masochists-anon meetings.....there's someone there that wants that job.....really, really badly

779 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:44:40pm

re: #750 WindHorse

you are one stupid person.

Are you sure? They might be two stupid people, or even three.

780 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:44:42pm

re: #776 WindHorse

despite your (potential) feelings..... cherish this moment.

It's all I can do to pretend to be serious....really it's adorable....plus, he'll sleep in tomorrow for sure!

781 solomonpanting  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:45:10pm

AGW proponents must be getting desperate. When looking to maintain the fervor of the cause, come up with scare factics. Finally, we get real numbers of the human and monetary costs of climate change:

Climate change kills 300,000 a year

Climate change is responsible for the deaths of 300,000 people every year and costs 125 billion dollars (90 billion euros) annually, a new report said Friday.

782 Clemente  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:45:11pm

re: #757 Throbert McGee

re: #706 Sharmuta

I can't run for office. I'm not electable. Also- I've made poor choices in words in the past.

I'm less electable than you are, so there!

Split the ticket and I'll mark my ballot!

783 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:45:17pm

re: #770 Flyers1974

Because I stated that you don't get to decide, it doesn't follow that I think that I get to decide. The drama here seems a bit contrived.

Can't be any more contrived than your unflinching defense of 0bama's gaffes and gaffe-like policies.

784 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:45:49pm

re: #778 Desert Dog
I see craaaazy people!

785 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:45:52pm

re: #780 srb1976

(smile)

I realize you understand....

786 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:45:59pm

re: #765 Opilio

its a sad place to go to.

my uncle calls it '3 mile up the asshole of the world"

my wife and i never go back there, its awful.

787 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:46:10pm

re: #781 solomonpanting

AGW proponents must be getting desperate. When looking to maintain the fervor of the cause, come up with scare factics. Finally, we get real numbers of the human and monetary costs of climate change:

Climate change kills 300,000 a year

How many people are killed yearly by "regular" climate?

//

788 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:46:30pm

re: #774 Desert Dog

I have an 8 year old here that does not want to bath....that is no longer cute....


That's much easier to deal with when they are small (brute force Yay!)
but I imagine it gets less cute over time = )

789 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:46:31pm

re: #783 Fenway_Nation

Can't be any more contrived than your unflinching defense of 0bama's gaffes and gaffe-like policies.

No way to defend the against the truth.

790 MrPaulRevere  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:47:32pm

Well things seem to have come full circle. Reagan and Buckley transformed conservatism from an eccentric group of crackpots into a winning majority. Once again, the crackpots are in charge.

791 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:47:58pm

re: #762 Silvergirl

The curling iron comment was out of line.

On who's part? I wouldn't have dreamed of using curling irons in political debate until he utilized it first.

792 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:48:10pm

re: #774 Desert Dog

I have two nephews (in their thirties) that refuse to bathe....

(we don't invite them over any more....)

793 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:48:22pm

re: #781 solomonpanting
People have been getting killed in tropical cyclones in the Indian ocean for thousands of years. Why? The land is about 10 feet above sea level. The cyclone pushes in a tidal surge of 15+ feet and everything is under water. Goddamn asshat envirowhackos.

794 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:48:54pm

re: #787 Gus 802

How many people are killed yearly by "regular" climate?

//

How many have the watermelons killed?

Sixty million people have died needlessly of malaria, since the imposition of the 1972 ban on DDT,...
795 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:49:13pm

re: #791 Flyers1974

whose

796 NY Nana  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:49:19pm

If I got started on what I think of anyone who is so ignorant and cruel as to make jokes about the mentally challenged? I would not be a gentle as Mandy is, believe me.

No, none of my kids and grandkids are, but I see these people working, and doing so many things that even 30 years ago might not have been possible, as the proper care was not there yet.

1 Mentally challenged child has more human kindness, and a sweetness in them than all those who mock the fucktard', 'retard', etc.? Despicable. I took care of little ones with Down Syndrome as a student nurse, and loved them...sadly we lost a number of them, as they were really being used to perfect open heart surgery, as they have Tetralogy of Fallot in far too many cases...they were pioneers, and I also assisted in the surgery. I trained at Brooklyn Jewish, where a pioneer in this surgery was perfecting it.

Next time you see a Downs kid? Please give them a smile. The one you get back will make your day.

I am off to sleep, as we hope to go to Brooklyn to baby sit for our almost 3 year old grandson...for the evening, so the kids can go out. I need extra sleep in order to try and keep up with him.

Sorry for the rant, but this really gets me so damned angry.

G'nite, Lizards, sweet dreams!

797 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:49:37pm

re: #791 Flyers1974

On who's part? I wouldn't have dreamed of using curling irons in political debate until he utilized it first.

On the user of the term. As if FU isn't harsh enough, we have to get a red hot curling iron into the mix. Over the top.

798 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:49:49pm

re: #796 NY Nana

'Nite Nana!

799 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:49:49pm

re: #794 jcm

Rachel Carson is not very popular in Africa.

800 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:50:07pm

re: #792 WindHorse

I have two nephews (in their thirties) that refuse to bathe....

(we don't invite them over any more....)

those sound like my klan member uncles in murthaland..

801 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:50:39pm

Falcon,

I don't need to be lectured by the likes of you. You want to feel like a big shot since you support an administration with a lot of power right now, that's your fucking perogative. But take California, (which is run by liberal Democrats and is now effectively bankrupt and asking the feds for what essentially amounts to a bailout), multiply by a factor of oh say, 100, and you have where America is heading under this current administration.

Despite whatever you may think, the tea party protestors and other members of the opposition are the moderates now

802 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:51:08pm

re: #800 coldwarrior

(I think I was adopted....)

803 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:51:14pm

re: #800 coldwarrior
As my granpa would've said..."those boys ain't right".

804 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:52:46pm

re: #790 MrPaulRevere

Well things seem to have come full circle. Reagan and Buckley transformed conservatism from an eccentric group of crackpots into a winning majority. Once again, the crackpots are in charge.

It seems as thought the GOP members of the House and Senate are taking the high road. Voicing opposition and their intent to vote no yet avoiding the more contemptuous rhetoric.

805 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:53:04pm

re: #803 pingjockey

....yes, you are right - and it is sad.

806 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:53:40pm

re: #801 Phil.

Falcon,

I don't need to be lectured by the likes of you. You want to feel like a big shot since you support an administration with a lot of power right now, that's your fucking perogative. But take California, (which is run by liberal Democrats and is now effectively bankrupt and asking the feds for what essentially amounts to a bailout), multiply by a factor of oh say, 100, and you have where America is heading under this current administration.

Despite whatever you may think, the tea party protestors and other members of the opposition are the moderates now

Dark Falcon? Bedtime at #593.

807 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:54:48pm

How cute is a kitty who insists on having his ears scratched JUST after you paint your nails?

808 Throbert McGee  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:54:49pm

re: #764 Sharmuta

We can form our own "We're not electable" party!

I can see the makings of a hilarious Britcom here...

809 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:54:50pm

re: #783 Fenway_Nation

Can't be any more contrived than your unflinching defense of 0bama's gaffes and gaffe-like policies.

What does one have to do with the other?

810 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:55:08pm

re: #805 WindHorse
I have a 15 and 17 year old boys and I jump on their asses to bathe. There is an Axe commercial and the guy sprays himself and off he goes. I told them all it does it cover the stink for a while.

811 solomonpanting  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:55:12pm

re: #793 pingjockey

People have been getting killed in tropical cyclones in the Indian ocean for thousands of years. Why? The land is about 10 feet above sea level. The cyclone pushes in a tidal surge of 15+ feet and everything is under water. Goddamn asshat envirowhackos.

Yes, but only until recently has there been a wealthy US, a failed death-inducing Marxist world view and a compliant media willing to do the bidding of the later.

812 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:55:45pm

re: #797 Silvergirl

On the user of the term. As if FU isn't harsh enough, we have to get a red hot curling iron into the mix. Over the top.

Are you saying I should have turned the other cheek?

813 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:56:29pm

re: #801 Phil.

Falcon,

I don't need to be lectured by the likes of you. You want to feel like a big shot since you support an administration with a lot of power right now, that's your fucking perogative. But take California, (which is run by liberal Democrats and is now effectively bankrupt and asking the feds for what essentially amounts to a bailout), multiply by a factor of oh say, 100, and you have where America is heading under this current administration.

Despite whatever you may think, the tea party protestors and other members of the opposition are the moderates now

You're still here? Actually, Dark Falcon has a positive view of Tea Party protestors -- for the most part. You might want to actually know what you're talking about before you open your big mouth.

814 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:56:29pm
815 Former Belgian  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:57:04pm

re: #632 Sharmuta

You seem to think pro-0bama and misogyny weren't related.

Maybe to some extent for Hillary. I think class snobbery had a lot more to do with it in the case of Sarah Palin. For the New Class, she's "Not one of us"!

816 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:57:12pm

re: #811 solomonpanting
True. I can remember death tolls in the 100k range from the late 60s through the 70s and there was no 'climate change' to blame.

817 srb1976  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:57:21pm

re: #807 ggt

How cute is a kitty who insists on having his ears scratched JUST after you paint your nails?


Sometimes it's worth the money to have them done (there's a place not far from me that will do just the paint for 5 bucks....the only reason I have painted nails at all)

818 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:58:13pm

re: #804 Gus 802

It seems as thought the GOP members of the House and Senate are taking the high road. Voicing opposition and their intent to vote no yet avoiding the more contemptuous rhetoric.

yeah, but unfortunately the lunatic fringe is getting all the attention and making outrageous statements.

819 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:58:17pm

re: #812 Flyers1974

Are you saying I should have turned the other cheek?

No. You have a right to protest somebody going after you like that. He had a right to say it, and I have a right to say it's out of line for him to have said it.

820 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:58:20pm

re: #810 pingjockey

my sons are 16 and 18..... THEY bathe daily (ie. shower). My nephews...?

No one clued them in.

They will either figure it out on their own........ or - they won't!

821 Digital Display  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:59:11pm

You have got to admit..Avanti hitting the top ten is like the 69 Miracle Mets..
If you didn't see it really happen..You'd never believe it
Congrads Avanti.

822 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:59:19pm

re: #816 pingjockey

True. I can remember death tolls in the 100k range from the late 60s through the 70s and there was no 'climate change' to blame.

Going Down: Death Rates Due to Extreme Weather Events

Globally, mortality and mortality rates have declined by 95 percent or more since the 1920s.
823 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:59:27pm

re: #818 iceweasel

yeah, but unfortunately the lunatic fringe is getting all the attention and making outrageous statements.

True. Pundits and ex-officios become the de facto voice of the GOP for the MSM.

824 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:59:37pm

re: #808 Throbert McGee

I can see the makings of a hilarious Britcom here...

That would be so great...I love Britcom.

825 neomexicon  Fri, May 29, 2009 10:59:57pm

OT: Lizards, wish me luck on tomorrow's (drug, sex, and alcohol free) prom night.

826 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:00:19pm

re: #820 WindHorse
The girls will let them know in no uncertain terms!

827 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:00:35pm

re: #819 Silvergirl

No. You have a right to protest somebody going after you like that. He had a right to say it, and I have a right to say it's out of line for him to have said it.

Sorry, it must be getting late, it took me a while to catch your meaning. Thanks though.

828 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:01:31pm

re: #822 jcm
Radio to get the word out. "Run away! Run away"!

829 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:01:59pm

re: #814 jcm

Dude.... these people live on my street! I have talked to them at length!

About 8 years ago, they moved their boat down the road from their house to the marina with trucks, cops and cars with yellow flashing lights.

By the way, they are both extremely silly people!

830 Phil.  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:01:59pm

re: #806 Silvergirl

Dark Falcon? Bedtime at #593.

Sorry that was directed at flyers1984.

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

For the first time since another Democrat occupied the White House, investors from Beijing to Zurich are challenging a president’s attempts to revive the economy with record deficit spending. Fifteen years after forcing Bill Clinton to abandon his own stimulus plans, the so-called bond vigilantes are punishing Barack Obama for quadrupling the budget shortfall to $1.85 trillion. By driving up yields on U.S. debt, they are also threatening to derail Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke’s efforts to cut borrowing costs for businesses and consumers.

The 1.4-percentage-point rise in 10-year Treasury yields this year pushed interest rates on 30-year fixed mortgages to above 5 percent for the first time since before Bernanke announced on March 18 that the central bank would start printing money to buy financial assets. Treasuries have lost 5.1 percent in their worst annual start since Merrill Lynch & Co. began its Treasury Master Index in 1977.

“The bond-market vigilantes are up in arms over the outlook for the federal deficit,” said Edward Yardeni, who coined the term in 1984 to describe investors who protest monetary or fiscal policies they consider inflationary by selling bonds. He now heads Yardeni Research Inc. in Great Neck, New York. “Ten trillion dollars over the next 10 years is just an indication that Washington is really out of control and that there is no fiscal discipline whatsoever.”

Need I remind Flyers1984 and any other apologist for this administration that the deficits are just getting started and the effects are already taking shape.

831 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:02:04pm

re: #825 neomexicon
GOOD LUCK!

832 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:02:33pm

re: #826 pingjockey

(unfortunately - both married, and both with kids)

833 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:02:59pm

re: #814 jcm
That is a gorgeous boat!

834 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:03:28pm

re: #815 Former Belgian

Maybe to some extent for Hillary. I think class snobbery had a lot more to do with it in the case of Sarah Palin. For the New Class, she's "Not one of us"!


[Video]

I think Palin got both kinds of attacks, the misogynistic and the class based ones.

The class attacks are so ridiculous on both sides. Either someone is caricatured as some French-lookin' arugula-eatin' pointy headed elitist (like Dijongate) or they're being called a hillbilly redneck what don't think so good.

It disgusts me and lowers the tone of our discourse. I hate the people who make such attacks and I hate the media for promoting them.

835 Throbert McGee  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:03:38pm

re: #774 Desert Dog

I have an 8 year old here that does not want to bathe....that is no longer cute....

Well, what you do is, let him/her go without bathing until there's a good half-inch of topsoil accumulated on the skin. Then, when the kid is sleeping, you plant some radish seeds...

836 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:03:40pm

re: #829 WindHorse

Dude.... these people live on my street! I have talked to them at length!

About 8 years ago, they moved their boat down the road from their house to the marina with trucks, cops and cars with yellow flashing lights.

By the way, they are both extremely silly people!

Beautiful boat.......

837 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:04:05pm

re: #825 neomexicon

OT: Lizards, wish me luck on tomorrow's (drug, sex, and alcohol free) prom night.

uhh...well, ummm...i had all three at mine, so if these were to be forced on you, go with sex, booze, some more sex, and then the drugs...and some more sex

838 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:04:13pm

re: #832 WindHorse
OMG!

839 WindHorse  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:04:25pm

re: #836 jcm

....yes, and beautiful people who love each other.

840 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:04:58pm

re: #830 Phil.

Need I remind Flyers1984 and any other apologist for this administration that the deficits are just getting started and the effects are already taking shape.

Buddy, since you're not bringing curling irons into the matter, I'll believe anything you say... Consider me on board.

841 MrPaulRevere  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:05:04pm

Sotomayer doesn't concern me in the least to be frank. Cap and tradetax, and the value added tax bug the hell out of me. A mature political party chooses its fights wisely.

842 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:05:16pm

re: #822 jcm

In the case of AGW. It seems as though most people tend to heat their living spaces rather than cool. A lot of energy is spent in heating. Perhaps more so than cooling. This might not be the case for commercial office spaces. However, in the case of residential spaces wouldn't an increase in temperature reduce the energy consumption for heating thereby having an inherent reductive effect on AGW by default?

843 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:05:32pm

re: #839 WindHorse

....yes, and beautiful people who love each other.

59 years together the report said!

844 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:05:55pm

re: #823 Gus 802

True. Pundits and ex-officios become the de facto voice of the GOP for the MSM.

Yep. For example, Pat Buchanan being described as a conservative and regularly being given attention as though he's someone with any credibility at all.

845 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:06:03pm

re: #835 Throbert McGee

Well, what you do is, let him/her go without bathing until there's a good half-inch of topsoil accumulated on the skin. Then, when the kid is sleeping, you plant some radish seeds...

Turn your kid into a Chia Pet. I like it.

846 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:06:17pm

re: #836 jcm
Any idea what a studio apt rents for in Redmond?
The Redmond papers classified section was fubar and I couldn't look.

847 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:06:37pm

re: #842 Gus 802

In the case of AGW. It seems as though most people tend to heat their living spaces rather than cool. A lot of energy is spent in heating. Perhaps more so than cooling. This might not be the case for commercial office spaces. However, in the case of residential spaces wouldn't an increase in temperature reduce the energy consumption for heating thereby having an inherent reductive effect on AGW by default?

Cold is far, far deadlier than warm.

848 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:07:42pm

re: #844 iceweasel

Yep. For example, Pat Buchanan being described as a conservative and regularly being given attention as though he's someone with any credibility at all.

Right. I think MSNBC (?) uses almost those exact words: Pat Buchanan, a prominent voice for conservatives. Or something along those lines.

849 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:09:03pm

re: #846 pingjockey

Any idea what a studio apt rents for in Redmond?
The Redmond papers classified section was fubar and I couldn't look.

Won't be cheap.

Apartment finder.

It'll be better than a year ago. M$ has laid off a bunch of people.

850 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:09:32pm

Pat Buchanan, a prominent voice for neonazis, antisemites, and other assorted whack jobs.

851 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:09:43pm

re: #847 jcm

Cold is far, far deadlier than warm.

Hypothermia, broken pipes, electrical disruption, etc.

852 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:10:27pm

re: #844 iceweasel

Yep. For example, Pat Buchanan being described as a conservative and regularly being given attention as though he's someone with any credibility at all.

Though to be sure, at one time Buchanon was prominent enough to be featured at the GOP convention. He's been getting a lot of milage out of that since then, though.

853 justdanny  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:10:39pm

Wikipedia bans Church of Scientology

Exclusive In an unprecedented effort to crack down on self-serving edits, the Wikipedia supreme court has banned contributions from all IP addresses owned or operated by the Church of Scientology and its associates.

Closing out the longest-running court case in Wikiland history, the site’s Arbitration Committee voted 10 to 0 (with one abstention) in favor of the move, which takes effect immediately.

854 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:11:24pm

re: #849 jcm
Thanks. The online crap I was looking at was not helping! The place that does facility management for MS in Quincy has an opening in Redmond. So I may do the work over there and come home on weekends thing.

855 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:12:00pm

re: #848 Gus 802

Right. I think MSNBC (?) uses almost those exact words: Pat Buchanan, a prominent voice for conservatives. Or something along those lines.

MSNBC probably uses Buchanan to make the right look ridiculous in the same way Fox used Alan Colmes. Neither can hold their own in those environments. Buchanan is shrill and crazy (even for people who don't know the extent of the craziness) and Colmes was just a whipping boy.

856 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:12:13pm

re: #848 Gus 802

Right. I think MSNBC (?) uses almost those exact words: Pat Buchanan, a prominent voice for conservatives. Or something along those lines.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of, the way he's described on their website--someone quoted it the other night.

I've said it before: the only platform Pat should have is a milkcrate on a streetcorner. He can stand on it and harangue the clouds and the pigeons.

857 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:12:39pm

re: #854 pingjockey

Thanks. The online crap I was looking at was not helping! The place that does facility management for MS in Quincy has an opening in Redmond. So I may do the work over there and come home on weekends thing.

Online classified in the PI or Times, and Craigslist for shared housing. Or maybe a long term house sitting opportunity.

858 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:13:16pm

re: #852 Flyers1974

Though to be sure, at one time Buchanon was prominent enough to be featured at the GOP convention. He's been getting a lot of milage out of that since then, though.

And his speech there was responsible in large part for giving Clinton the White House in 92. The famous "culture war" speech. That terrified the HELL out of ordinary people.

859 Altermite  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:13:29pm

re: #853 justdanny

Wikipedia bans Church of Scientology

I can't blame them. Sciientology attempted to infiltrate the government in order to steal and destroy any documentation that put it in a negative light. (Operation Snow White) Editing wikipedia to make themselves look good is something they would obviously love to do.

860 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:14:29pm

re: #858 iceweasel

With an assist from Ross perot.

861 Opilio  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:14:49pm

re: #847 jcm

Cold is far, far deadlier than warm.

According to the NWS, the death rate from heat is 10 times that of cold.

862 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:15:45pm

re: #809 Flyers1974

Does it matter? It could be a throwaway line about Special Olympians, signing off on a $787 billion kickback disguised as 'stimulus' or throwing our allies under the bus (and I'm not talking about just the Israelis). I'd be overreacting, and it would be my fault for not seeing the 'nuance' behind every move from the WH.

863 Former Belgian  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:15:59pm

re: #678 I Need A Bigger Gun

Actually, she might be a racist (versus a bigot) in this instance. The definition of racist is the belief in the superiority of one race over another. She thinks she can come to a better conclusion on things because she is Hispanic and not white. That would seem to be a feeling of superiority in her race versus the white race. Hence, she is, in this instance, a racist. The term "racist" is bandied about when it shouldn't be; most of the time the word should be "bigot". She isn't a bigot. She is a racist.

Hmmm... last time I checked, Hispanics/Latinos were not a race. The official definition is "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race". [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

[Hmm, does that make Sephardic Jews "Hispanic"? ;-)]

If we extend the definition to not asserting the superiority of one race, but asserting the particular inferiority/nefarious character of a given race, then there is such a thing as anti-white Racism. (Like not all antisemites believe their own group to be a Master Race, but all do believe we Jews are inferior or evil.)

Otherwise I'd call it bigotry. All racism is bigotry, but not all bigotry is racism.

864 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:16:15pm

re: #860 Flyers1974

Very true!

865 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:16:17pm
866 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:17:44pm

re: #861 Opilio

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

867 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:18:26pm

re: #865 Sharmuta

Denied! :(

868 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:18:44pm

re: #861 Opilio

According to the NWS, the death rate from heat is 10 times that of cold.

That's for US, a industrialized nation.

I'm speaking more globally which direction climate change would be worse.

There's a reason the tropics are more populated than the higher latitudes. It's easier to survive if staying warm is not a priority.

869 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:19:53pm

re: #857 jcm
There's a couple of good thoughts. Or a damn by the week motel. Just have to wait and see how it works out!

870 Altermite  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:20:20pm

re: #868 jcm

That's for US, a industrialized nation.

I'm speaking more globally which direction climate change would be worse.

There's a reason the tropics are more populated than the higher latitudes. It's easier to survive if staying warm is not a priority.

Thats probably not the reason. It likely has more to do with food supplies than anything else. Compare deserts to tundras- you have some very intersting paralells with food supplies and population distribution.

871 jvic  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:20:26pm

re: #775 pingjockey

Right now I don't think they've got enough money to get anyone to be governor! If someone wants to be governor of that mess they need their heads examined!

A governor who revitalized California would have the inside track to the White House.

Don't laugh. Stranger things have happened. Really. I can't think of any, but they have.

872 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:21:13pm

re: #866 Silvergirl

I've always loved that poem. ;) Frost, right?

873 coldwarrior  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:22:05pm

re: #868 jcm

That's for US, a industrialized nation.

I'm speaking more globally which direction climate change would be worse.

There's a reason the tropics are more populated than the higher latitudes. It's easier to survive if staying warm is not a priority.

i'd rather give it a go in the heat, i did arctic school and it was tough...where do you get food on a glacier?

874 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:22:54pm

re: #869 pingjockey

There's a couple of good thoughts. Or a damn by the week motel. Just have to wait and see how it works out!

Some of the extended stay motels aren't bad, kitchens, laundry and cleaning taken care of, utilities included, prices aren't much more than an apartment sometimes less.

875 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:24:02pm

re: #871 jvic
The person would have to be extraordinary. The state is the worlds 8th largest economy and has a 15 billion dollar deficeit or more! Business is bailing out due to confiscitory tax policies and a whole lot of citizens are doing the same.

876 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:25:10pm

re: #874 jcm
Yep. Sometimes less.

877 Deseeded  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:25:46pm

Anti-hispanic? That seems a bit harsh. "Crotchedy" and "out of touch" fits well with the GOP right now, but it's not an anti-hispanic outfit.

878 pingjockey  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:26:11pm

Going up to the O-nite thread!

879 jcm  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:27:12pm

re: #876 pingjockey

Yep. Sometimes less.

If you end up over here I'll take you to lunch at Dixie's BBQ in Bellevue, if your schedule allows.

880 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:27:58pm

re: #862 Fenway_Nation

Does it matter? It could be a throwaway line about Special Olympians, signing off on a $787 billion kickback disguised as 'stimulus' or throwing our allies under the bus (and I'm not talking about just the Israelis). I'd be overreacting, and it would be my fault for not seeing the 'nuance' behind every move from the WH.

Interesting points. The anti-Obama stuff I'm hearing just sounds to over-the-top to me. I think things are going to be basically the same in four years, eight years, etc... . I don't know. We shall see, one way or the other. On that calm note, it is time for bed. Good night to all.

881 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:28:57pm

re: #863 Former Belgian

You raise a good point--that Latino or Hispanic is such a broad term it doesn't exactly track "race". (And I appreciate that you make the distinction between bigotry and racism, which so many are failing to do.)

I recommend this article by liberal black blogger Ta-Nahisi Coates for everybody. He makes a very similar point about the meaning of the term White, and you might be surprised to find that it's the central point of an argument he makes criticising Sotomoyer for her "wise Latina" comment"

I think Sotomayor's statement is quite wrong. I understand the basis of it, laid out pretty well by Kerry Howley over at Hit & Run. The idea is that Latinos have a dual experience that whites don't have and that, all things being equal, they'll be able to pull from that experience and see things that whites don't. The problem with this reasoning is it implicitly accepts the logic (made for years by white racists) that there is something essential and unifying running through all white people, everywhere. But White--as we know it--is a word so big that, as a descriptor of experience, it almost doesn't exist.

Indeed, it's claims are preposterous. It seeks to lump the miner in Eastern Kentucky, the Upper West Side Jew, the yuppie in Seattle, the Irish Catholic in South Boston, the hipster in Brooklyn, the Cuban-American in Florida, or even the Mexican-American in California all together, and erase the richness of their experience, by marking the bag "White." This is a lie--and another example of how a frame invented (and for decades endorsed) by whites is, at the end of the day, bad for whites. White racism, in this country, was invented to erase the humanity and individuality of blacks. But for it to work it must, necessarily, erase the humanity of whites, too.

[Link: ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com...]

882 Former Belgian  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:34:03pm

re: #842 Gus 802

In the case of AGW. It seems as though most people tend to heat their living spaces rather than cool. A lot of energy is spent in heating. Perhaps more so than cooling. This might not be the case for commercial office spaces. However, in the case of residential spaces wouldn't an increase in temperature reduce the energy consumption for heating thereby having an inherent reductive effect on AGW by default?

Speaking as somebody whose day job brings him into contact with lots of research academia:

Whenever I hear the words "scientific consensus" about AGW being floated around, it usually conflates a number of issues:
(1) The supply of fossil fuels is finite and mankind has to wean itself off them. I do believe there is basically wall-to-wall consensus there.
(2) Climate change does occur. The historical record for climate cycles is pretty unambiguous, as any paleoclimatologist will tell you.
(3) We are currently in a warming era. The main difference, if any, is between those who argue it is still ongoing and the minority who argue it has peaked.
(4) Today's climate change is wholly or primarily man-made. Here you have a few prominent open dissenters (including people as senior as Freeman Dyson or Richard Lindzen), and quite a few more that will express skepticism off the record (including some that are outspoken political liberals).
(5) The effects of global warming will be uniformly negative. In fact, as you rightly point out the cost-benefit equation of will indeed be positive for some areas of the planet, while it will be negative for others. The question is whether it is a net positive or negative for the planet as a whole.

883 jvic  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:38:56pm

re: #875 pingjockey

The person would have to be extraordinary. The state is the worlds 8th largest economy and has a 15 billion dollar deficeit or more! Business is bailing out due to confiscitory tax policies and a whole lot of citizens are doing the same.

IMHO Meg Whitman is extraordinary. (And pro-choice.) Maybe no one is extraordinary enough to restore California.

Interestingly, her first test is the one McCain just flunked. After the failed administration of a chief executive of her own party, can she persuade the voters to elect her?

After that would come the hard part.

884 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:39:53pm

weeet dreams all!

885 g33ks3cUr  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:44:05pm

I'd rather be right on principle than going with the flow, cowering because I fear the "poisonous gas". Peggy was right when she wrote, "Serious opposition to Judge Sotomayor is not only fair, it's necessary: It's your job to oppose if you oppose. But it should be serious, not merely partisan." And on this opposition Rush Limbaugh is right. I'd follow Rush more than a politician; because guess what, most (damn near all) politicians are in it for political longevity, not principle. Sorry Peggy, politicians don't typically make stands unless it is political.....er.....partisan.....er.....expedient. CYA in the grandest of all stages.

So let us see where the "conservative" politicians put their priorities......their political career or their principles...? Screw the republicans. I want conservatives that stand on principles, not party. Otherwise what is left if you allow your principles to be malleable just to "get along". Sadly, this is exactly what has gotten us to where we are. The "left" has stayed dutifully to the left, while the "right" has attempted to appease and apologize. Where has it gotten us?
For god sakes conservatives, stand your ground. If we must lose on principle, so be it. Don't let us lose by kissing the arse of left and their appeasers.......

Props to Dick C!......Suck it Colin P!.....

886 Former Belgian  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:51:11pm

re: #877 Deseeded

Anti-hispanic? That seems a bit harsh. "Crotchedy" and "out of touch" fits well with the GOP right now, but it's not an anti-hispanic outfit.

Mickey Kaus (a Democrat, who endorsed 0bama even though he is now quite critical) memorably spoke of "Operation Hispander" by the GOP and the Dems alike.

It's simple numbers: what are the big ethnic minority groups in the USA and who will they vote for?
* Blacks: automatically in the D column. The GOP tries (Bush 43 appointing blacks to his two most senior cabinet posts, Michael Steele becoming RNC chair) but it's basically a lost cause.
* Hispanics: the fastest-growing demographic, and not automatically in either column. The Dems can pander by "multiculturalism", "open borders", "affirmative action", and their historical record as "the party of the little guy" (old news). This rhetoric will attract a large part of the Hispanic electorate.
On the other hand, Hispanics tend to be socially conservative; leaving a few neo-marxists aside, are generally churchgoing Catholics or converts to evangelical churches; and those who are business owners probably have little if any time for "tax and spend" policies. As Bush 43 showed, the GOP can get at least a large minority of their vote.

So both parties have an incentive to woo this demographic and not to alienate it. So a "close the borders" candidate will be doomed: be he a union-backed Democrat (union members are probably the only D constituency that grumbles at "open borders" rhetoric) or a culturally conservative Republican.

887 Former Belgian  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:53:36pm

re: #874 jcm

Some of the extended stay motels aren't bad, kitchens, laundry and cleaning taken care of, utilities included, prices aren't much more than an apartment sometimes less.

Seconded. I generally prefer good extended stay hotels over "regular" ones.

888 Salamantis  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:53:41pm

Back when I was married, my wife interviewed for a job with an employment agency. She was told that they accepted money from anyone, but illegally furnished the race of their clients to most of the employers that worked with them (otherwise, they wouldn't patronize their agency). This of course meant in the Deep South where I live that minority clients didn't get many job interviews. But the employment agency had a lucrative way around this problem. They would place the enrollment money of minorities into interest-bearing bonds, thn when they didn't produce productive job interviews for them and the minority clients complained, they would refund their enrollment fee and scarf up on the interest.

So, being decent people, and realizing that racial discrimination in employment opportunities is the most egregious of all prejudices, she turned down the job, and we reported this situation to the only black county commissioner of the five in our county (he was always re-elected, as he was well-respectd as the owner of the local black funeral home, and his district was gerrymandered to be secure). But apparently he was receiving kickbacks to turn a blind eye to this practice, because after we provided him with evidence of what was going on, we waited for months, and nothing got done about it. So then, in desperation to have this horrible situation dealt with, we turned to the local chapter of the NAACP, and they worked with the federal government to send in faux applicants and built a case, which they subsequently prosecuted, and shut these bastards down once they subpoenaed their computer files.

The black county commissioner who was seemingly financially compensated for failing to act was subsequently found dead under a building surrounded by empty booze and narcotics bottles, an apparent and obvious suicide.

889 The Left  Fri, May 29, 2009 11:59:43pm

re: #886 Former Belgian

Mickey Kaus (a Democrat, who endorsed 0bama even though he is now quite critical) memorably spoke of "Operation Hispander" by the GOP and the Dems alike.

Wow, Mickey Kaus is a Democrat? I didn't realise that. If he is, he's the kind that liberals and progressives really hate.

That being said, I agree with the rest of your post.

Nate Silver has an interesting post today about the ways the GOP could still win a majority even if they alienate the Latino vote (he satirically dubs it Operation Gringo). If you're interested, I'll get the link. (it's really only for anyone interested in stats and crunching the electoral numbers--kind of boring unless you're a wonk like that. :) )

he makes the same point that you (and Kaus) do about how it's only a temporary strategy though, given the way the demographics will continue to go.

890 Former Belgian  Sat, May 30, 2009 12:16:55am

re: #889 iceweasel

Wow, Mickey Kaus is a Democrat? I didn't realise that. If he is, he's the kind that liberals and progressives really hate.


Another "surprise Democrat": Victor Davis Hanson.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

People tend to forget that none other than Ronald Reagan (RIP) started out political life as a Democrat.


Nate Silver has an interesting post today about the ways the GOP could still win a majority even if they alienate the Latino vote (he satirically dubs it Operation Gringo).

Just found it, I think:
[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

891 The Left  Sat, May 30, 2009 12:22:49am

re: #890 Former Belgian

Oy vey. VDH a Democrat (shudder). Now I know how you might feel on hearing Sullivan or Buchanan described as a Republican. ;)

You're right, that's the link for operation gringo!

892 Former Belgian  Sat, May 30, 2009 12:41:54am

re: #891 iceweasel

Oy vey. VDH a Democrat (shudder). Now I know how you might feel on hearing Sullivan or Buchanan described as a Republican. ;)


Didn't Pat Pukecannon run on a Reform Party ticket the last times his sorry behind was on the ballot? (1996 and 2000, IIRC.)

By the way, are you a Debian Linux user? ("Iceweasel" is the name for the Debian port of Firefox --- as it's unofficial, they are not allowed to use the name "Firefox" even though the program itself is open source.)

893 Throbert McGee  Sat, May 30, 2009 12:59:10am

re: #845 Silvergirl

Turn your kid into a Chia Pet. I like it.

I hadn't even thought of the Chia Pet angle! (I was riffing on Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle.)

894 The Left  Sat, May 30, 2009 1:09:25am

re: #892 Former Belgian

You're totally right. I believe he did run on the Reform Party ticket. let me rephrase and say..."what you feel on seeing him described as a prominent conservative". ;)

Re: Linux--wow, I did not know that.

My nic is just because I love the Simpsons and Matt Groening; it's an old quote of his from way back:

Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come.

895 Former Belgian  Sat, May 30, 2009 1:19:25am

re: #894 iceweasel

re: #894 iceweasel

You're totally right. I believe he did run on the Reform Party ticket. let me rephrase and say..."what you feel on seeing him described as a prominent conservative". ;)

Re: Linux--wow, I did not know that.

My nic is just because I love the Simpsons and Matt Groening; it's an old quote of his from way back:


Aha, apparently this is where the Debian team got it from: see

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


[T]he name "Iceweasel" was coined to refer to rebranded versions of Firefox. [...] It was intended as a parody of "Firefox."[4] [...]
The term "ice weasel" appeared earlier in a line which Matt Groening fictionally attributed to Friedrich Nietzsche:" [ your quote]"

Good night, or enjoy your brunch if you're in my time zone...

896 The Left  Sat, May 30, 2009 1:22:07am

re: #895 Former Belgian

Wow, very cool!

Enjoy your brunch. Take care!

897 loudguitars  Sat, May 30, 2009 1:50:44am

What's the deal? The Republican party should take advice and follow Democrats? Colin Powell? As of now, the Republican Party is lost.
I have great respect for Ms. Noonan, but I am still trying to find the book, "Great Moderates in American History".
Nearly all of the people held up as great Republican moderates are political failures. Every time Conservatives try to reach across the aisle we get screwed. All of you who are complaining that we need to become Liberals to maintain two functioning parties are ill advised. The Liberals want Conservatives to become liberals, that is how they want to create two functioning parties. It is time for a fight! Obama and his merry little band of radical pirates are flushing the prosperity so many of us have enjoyed since the late 70s down the toilet for at least a generation. He is going to take as many liberties away from us as he can as he is all about government power, high taxation and control of behavior. The Liberals in both parties are trying to turn this country in to Europe! Say hello to 15%+ unemployment, 60+ percent income tax rates on top of 10 to 20 % VAT taxes. We are screwed. Conservatives, FIGHT for your freedom! Obama is already failing, financially and morally and after he has FUBAR'd the economy in the next year, he will start to fail politically. We will wait until a conservative leader emerges and stay true to our principles.
Obama is failing at everything except public perception. Give him time, events will show that he is a radical political activist that DOES NOT reflect main stream American Values. The pendulum swings!

898 bubbasbbq  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:12:56am

What in the Christ is this Dried up old Soomka smoking? The White house has done nothing but act like low grade thugs. let's see, calling the secured bondholders of Chyrsler "speculators" and threatening to turn the White house on them to destory their reps unless they agree to this wholly illegal bankruptcy agreement, to the theivery of the AIG bonuses that were contractually obligated, and the demonizing of the people who received them, to the countless strawmen, the countless apologizes for America's "imperfections", the Debt that will take generations to pay for and will do nothing if hurt the economy.....do I need to go on?

The WHite house is filled with spoiled angry children.

As for Sodomayor I expect any and all SCOTUS picks to be thoroughly vetted with tough hard boiled questions. Keep personalities out of this, unless it is revealed said personality would be a detriment to the high office of Justice in the SCOTUS. And if you can't do that, then there is something wrong with this country. If she cant handle the tough questions, she doens't deserver the position. And considering some of her rulings, I consider her mediocre at best.

Noonan conveniently forgets what they tried to do to Thomas and it didn't seem affect them one bit one way or another.

OH and for the record, Palin wasn't just criticized as some of you have said, Noonan called her everything from unqualified to unintelligent, when in fact she has mroe executive experience than Obama ever had.

THis isn't a democrat or republican thing, this is an elistist thing and I am sick of these elitists telling me how great things are going to be because they know better. They don't.

899 DaveinMD  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:48:41am

DAMN, I came in too late. If anyone is still reading this, I only have one thing to say about "moderates and RINOs" being the future of the GOP. John McCain. How'd that work out for us? About as well as I expected. It's a blind spot, akin to the one Liberals have about Socialism. "It hasn't ever worked, it always makes things worse, let's give it one more chance!" Centrist my aching butt! Stand up! Stand up for your principles! It's not just conservatism, it's COMMON SENSE! Which, by the way, is an oxymoron. The conservative "brand" may be unpopular, but the IDEAS are still what counts, and the only thing that will save the GOP and possibly the nation. Quit calling it "conservatism" and call it what it is. Sound policy that WORKS. Keep any idea that WORKS, and dump the crap that doesn't, and the people who want to trash the party and the nation for the sake of centrism.

900 Sharmuta  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:52:23am

re: #899 DaveinMD

I don't know. Moderates might like common sense, so that's probably a bad idea. Better run a flaming social republican who wants to spend a lot of money instead of a conservative.

901 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 4:59:12am

re: #900 Sharmuta

I don't know. Moderates might like common sense, so that's probably a bad idea. Better run a flaming social republican who wants to spend a lot of money instead of a conservative.

For someone who used to love the Republican Party and the presidency of George W. Bush - you sure have changed.

As for Peggy Noonan - she of the school girl sighs and crush on President Urkel - she can go to hell and take Kathleen Parker with her. By the way where are the Democratic moderates? Whatever happened to Joe Lieberman? Tantrums? Has everyone here on this thread been asleep the past 8 years when W. was POTUS?

902 FrogMarch  Sat, May 30, 2009 4:59:29am
903 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:03:13am

re: #899 DaveinMD

DAMN, I came in too late. If anyone is still reading this, I only have one thing to say about "moderates and RINOs" being the future of the GOP. John McCain. How'd that work out for us? About as well as I expected.

Excellent points. I asked McCain in a letter (which came with my $100 contribution) back in October in essence "How did all that trashing of fellow Republicans help you with the Washington Post once the rubber hit the road"? Surprisingly I got no response. I wonder why.

904 Sharmuta  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:07:11am

re: #901 Joel

I became a republican because of fiscal issues, and Newt Gingrich. I've always been more liberal on social issues, such as decriminalizing marijuana and gay issues. In the last year, I've come to realize the party isn't very interested in individual liberty, or fiscal restraint for that matter.

I still have a great deal of respect for President Bush for his efforts in keeping this country safe, and I always will. But the spending from his time in Washington I now view in a different light.

I'm not ashamed of having learned more and my positions evolving because of that. I'm still the fiscal conservative-personal liberty republican I've always been. I'm just less naive about the party.

905 Former Belgian  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:26:28am

re: #899 DaveinMD

DAMN, I came in too late. If anyone is still reading this, I only have one thing to say about "moderates and RINOs" being the future of the GOP. John McCain. How'd that work out for us?


Well, consider the following:
* despite following a (for now) massively impopular incumbent (as impopular as Truman was when he left)
* despite being outspent 7-to-1
* despite a non-stop 0bama hype machine by a lamestream media being so far in the tank they hit gravel
* despite the Republican party being hit by embarrassing scandals concerning the likes of Mark Foley, Larry Craig, and Ted Stevens, scandals hyped by the same media that bury the party affiliation whenever a Democrat or liberal is caught
* despite fighting by Marquess of Queensberry rules (an unforgivable mistake from a Macchiavellistic point of view, but one of the reasons I always liked him even as I disagree with him on some issues)
* despite his half-baked response on the bailout
* despite not being "hip"
* despite (etc. etc.)...

... he came within a few percent of 0bama.

Note I did not say "despite Sarah Palin", because I think that on balance she gained him about as many "get-out-the-" votes of the base as she cost him among the center.

If you see a way for a third party to be viable in the US electoral system (I don't), by all means let the GOP split into a centrist and a "real conservative" party. As long as two parties are the name of the game, the GOP will never be able to win without grabbing a sizable chunk of the independent vote as well as mobilizing the conservative base. On that issue, at least, Charles is dead-on.

906 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:40:28am

re: #904 Sharmuta

None of my business but I will ask anyway - did you vote for Obama? If you did then what you just wrote about fiscal responsibility would be laughable.
Do you support "affirmative action" as well?

907 Sharmuta  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:41:20am

re: #906 Joel

No- I didn't vote for 0bama.

908 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:43:24am

One more thing Sharmuta

Where are the Deomcratic modertes and do you approve of the current philosophy of the Democratic Party? Is Howard Dean your type of party chairman, Ted Kennedy your kind of Senator, and Rod Blagojevich your kind of governor?

909 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:43:44am

re: #907 Sharmuta

No- I didn't vote for 0bama.

Do you wish you did now?

910 Sharmuta  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:48:59am

re: #908 Joel

I don't know, no, no, no and no.

It's interesting you'd say this about another republican, but seem to think that other republicans can't have their own opinion. At least- that's how your hostility makes you come across. Am I allowed to have my own opinions on conservatism, or do I have to genuflect at the alter of Rush? If I'm wrong about your seeming attitude, my apologies, but it does seem as though you think we're all supposed to be on the same page.

For the record, I consider myself a Goldwater conservative.

911 Sharmuta  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:49:26am

re: #909 Joel

No- and you're being a complete ass.

912 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:51:23am

Sharmuta
Do you post on left wing blogs pleading for the Democratic party to become more moderate and more of a "big tent" party, to show fiscal responsibility, to face up to our national threats, to stop with the Chimpy McHitler taunts of a decent human being, to support our friends overseas, to support more openness on our universities, to ask that MSNBC have a legitimate conservtive on (Buchanan is not a conservative) for Hollywood to not be so biased?

I was never a Bushbot but the way the other side treated him was so apalling that all the whining about the Republicans falls on deaf ears in my case. It is nothing compared to the visceral hatred that Bush and the Reopublicans ahd to go thorugh so forgive me if I don't fall in line with the "bad GOP not being nice to Pwesident Bawack Hooosein Obama" crapola.

Btw when was the last time either Letterman or Leno ever made a joke about The Great Leader 9as if he has not done anything ridiculous the past 3 months)? I thought so - you cannot name a single instance. You want pseudo-fascism - you got it now in Washington D.C. where the press is a bunch of sycophantic ass kissers.

913 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:53:41am

re: #911 Sharmuta

No- and you're being a complete ass.

Oh that's a great response.

914 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:02:40am

re: #910 Sharmuta

I don't know, no, no, no and no.

It's interesting you'd say this about another republican, but seem to think that other republicans can't have their own opinion. At least- that's how your hostility makes you come across. Am I allowed to have my own opinions on conservatism, or do I have to genuflect at the alter of Rush? If I'm wrong about your seeming attitude, my apologies, but it does seem as though you think we're all supposed to be on the same page.

For the record, I consider myself a Goldwater conservative.

What Republican was I talking about? Hey I have no problems criticizing McCain, Lindsey Graham, Trent Lott, Lincoln Chafee, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Chuck Hagel. I am not a party hack. I tend to be conservative but am pro choice and want less government in my life and want the budget to be run the same way that I run my own household (I have zero debt). I supported first Giuliani, then Mitt Romney for President. I am not a Paulian/Larouchite, I went to two tea parties and am God damn proud of that. I believe this nation was founded and made great by the Judeo-Christian values that our founding fathers believed in. Religion belongs in the home and church. I was a registered Democrat for several decades until the party turned totally Socialist and appeasement/defeatist and killed off the Henry Jackson wing. I believe in a color blind society and a tough law & order society as well i.e. no bleeding heart judges who want to play social worker.

That pretty much sums up my political beliefs.

P.S. - I also think that the Rolling Stones were a better band to listen to then the Beatles.

915 Sharmuta  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:07:06am

re: #914 Joel

Great- so we're both a couple of RINOs. Why are you bitching at me about it? And why the hell do you think I would want to try to fix the left? I'm trying to deal with the wrongs I see in my party so we can win elections again.

916 The Dude  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:08:32am
Ask Ted Kennedy, if he had it to do over again, if he would repeat all his intemperate and unjust words about "Bob Bork's America" and "back-alley abortions" and blacks turned away from lunch counters. He'd be a fool if he said yes. He damaged himself in that battle.

Damaged himself in what tangible way?

917 The Dude  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:10:57am
Mr. Obama himself well knows he voted against John Roberts and Sam Alito only in essence because they were conservative. He was planning a presidential run and playing to a left-wing base. But that didn't enhance his reputation, did it? Not with anyone who wasn't part of his base.

Again, what did Obama's opposition actually cost him in tangible terms?

918 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:21:35am

re: #917 The Dude

Again, what did Obama's opposition actually cost him in tangible terms?

You re right. Ted Kennedy never expressed any remorse for his vicious personal attacks. William F. Buckley once said about Ted Kennedy "Politics aside, he really is a nasty man". Of course May Jo Kopechne is not available for comment.

919 The Dude  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:23:42am
The odd thing Republican elected officials forget is that they often have the better argument. So used are they to the defensive crouch that they find it difficult to stand tall, expand, tell, hear. They should have more faith in the philosophical assumptions of their party, which so often reflect the wisdom of experience, of tradition, of Founders more brilliant than we.

I see the point there, but it seems to me that the better argument just isn't what wins elections. Soundbites and superficial appeal is what motivates most of the voting public. It's all about the cult of personality. Democrats understand that and exploit it. Republicans don't. All this talk of wooing moderates and independents unnecessarily complicates what has essentially become nothing more than a popularity contest.

920 The Dude  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:40:01am

re: #918 Joel

That's my point exactly. Peggy Noonan gets a lot of respect from me. She's a very intelligent lady and a good writer. The problem is, "playing grownup" won't win Republicans elections. As intelligent as Noonan is, she either misses or won't acknowledge that reality. She's not alone there though. The "intellectual" wing of the Republican party no more realizes that they are too much of a minority to win elections in and of themselves than the hard-core social conservatives do.

I guess that's my beef with the general tone of things here lately. There's plenty of criticizing of those who want to purge the party of RINOs, but no explanation of how purging the party of social conservatives would help win elections. Don't get me wrong here, I don't like the intrusive personal policies that social conservatives advocate either. Limited federal govt. would benefit all of us. The reality is though, those same social conservatives that some seem ready to jettison from the party vote just like the rest of us do. It seems to me that we need to focus on commonalities of the various branches of conservatives rather than on what divides us.

921 [deleted]  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:13:04am
922 Former Belgian  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:16:17am

re: #920 The Dude

There's plenty of criticizing of those who want to purge the party of RINOs, but no explanation of how purging the party of social conservatives would help win elections. [...] It seems to me that we need to focus on commonalities of the various branches of conservatives rather than on what divides us.


Either purge would condemn the party to perpetual minority status. I would say fiscal conservatism and strong defense and law & order policies are things every Republican should be able to agree upon: some of that is probably already too much for some of the "Country Club Republicans", but the libertarian and so-con wings should be able to agree on them, and agree to disagree on other matters.

923 [deleted]  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:16:56am
924 [deleted]  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:19:00am
925 gtrs  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:32:55am

re: #920 The Dude but, her overall theme is picking the fights you can win while maintaining a certain decorum during the fight; she is not abandoning the republican party, she just is stressing that its members act more courteous while being in the opposition; i think she sees a public relations nightmare here brewing for her party and she decided to speak out; i don't think she cares if she is criticized for her views but that is just my take(i am not sure that peggy noonan has had much pull anyway since maybe the late 80's)

926 The Dude  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:34:09am

re: #922 Former Belgian

Well said.

I would say fiscal conservatism and strong defense and law & order policies are things every Republican should be able to agree upon [...] and agree to disagree on other matters.

I'm not sure why, but that seems to have become unthinkable to some. I think the "big tent" idea is overrated (you can't successfully be all things to all people); but being able to agree to disagree on things that fall outside of the basics - fiscal conservatism and strong defense and law & order policies as you say - with the full realization that it will benefit all conservatives is an achievable goal, isn't it? Am I being naive here?

927 The Dude  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:40:31am

re: #925 gtrs

her overall theme is picking the fights you can win while maintaining a certain decorum during the fight

I certainly agree with that theme in the general sense. Maintaining a courteous decorum during disagreements is morally the right thing to do IMO. The point is though, when Democrats don't do that it doesn't necessarily cost them elections. If it did, Ted Kennedy would have been sunk years ago.

/"sunk" is probably not a good term to use in connection with Ted Kennedy - my bad

928 gtrs  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:45:45am

re: #926 The Dude that would seem like a reasonable start to me BUT i am not in tune with the religious right and from what you have here i think they would come out blasting away as saying that "you are leaving us behind"(see what i'm saying? even though you used reason in your statement, they would think something sinister is in it to exclude them; they just don't seem to me to actually CARE about winning at the ballot box)

929 gtrs  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:57:17am

re: #927 The Dude i think you are summing up pretty well what cornyn was trying to get across when he made his statement; and NOW cornyn is getting blasted by his OWN party folks who seem to be acting out of some type of pent up frustration or irrational anger or something; which i would argue has no intellectual reasoning behind it whatsoever(charles put it pretty well when he said blogs like kos are thrilled be these shenanigans)

930 Randall Gross  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:58:43am

re: #924 taxfreekiller

No true Scotsman...

931 JacksonTn  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:16:10am

re: #575 Flyers1974

Teleprompter - Not terribly compelling evil to most.
Bowling/Special Olympics joke - The Dems don't care and I thought the Republicans were against P.C.
Obama laughing - Laugh and the world laughs with you.

flyer ... the only laughing I will ever do concerning Obama ... IS AT HIM oh, and his wife Michelle yeah, she is really funny too ... real funny ... you are in love ...

932 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:20:49am

[Link: www.experience.com...]


This is why affirmative action still exists. It is a necessary evil. Probably one of the only good things Nixon did.

933 gtrs  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:21:09am

re: #931 JacksonTn yes BUT they have been laughing as well; ever since their 10 MILLION vote victory last november................/

934 JacksonTn  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:22:22am

re: #933 gtrs

yes BUT they have been laughing as well; ever since their 10 MILLION vote victory last november................/

gtrs ... Yes 10 MILLION JOKES ...

935 Korla Pundit  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:32:17am
"Flooding in" from where, other than right-wing and extremist blogs? Links?

Drip...

Image: dc.jpg

Drip...

[Link: www.outsidethebeltway.com...]

Drip...

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Drip...

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

Drip...

[Link: www.judicialwatch.org...]

Sort of like waterboarding, isn't it?

936 Frater Eosphoros  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:32:48am

Time to go to Brazil and get that wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences operation so I can be one of the cool kids... Oh, God Emperor Barry, thine minions doth cracketh me up.

937 Frater Eosphoros  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:36:50am

re: #42 Racer X

What are you? Some kinda lousy American?
/s

938 gtrs  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:39:21am

re: #934 JacksonTn yep; 10 MILLION jokes still laughing at you................and all these other folks bowing to the BIG RUSH........./

939 JacksonTn  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:42:05am

re: #938 gtrs

yep; 10 MILLION jokes still laughing at you................and all these other folks bowing to the BIG RUSH........./

gtrs .. for the record ... I do not listen to Rush ... and I don't mind being laughed at ... I am also not a republican so I don't get into the whole republican party thing going on now ... I am ex-democrat who would not jump on the Obama Lovefest Wagon ... I know the party very very well ... so you can keep the bowing to Rush stuff and direct it at someone else ... I will take being laughed at for not voting Obama ... any friggin day ... he will not be in office forever ...

940 Frater Eosphoros  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:43:38am

re: #924 taxfreekiller

He told me he's from Helatrobus.

941 [deleted]  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:22:32am
942 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:29:09am

OK with the Idea of Grown-Up for the GOP. All things considered there is No Other Way. The Media will NOT allow for it. Judge Sotomayor will become Justice Sotomayor baring a major scandal. She has the training and experience, if not the temperament, and is backed by the majority party in Congress, more specifically, the Senate, with a Filibuster Proof Majority.
Get over it, and use the hearings for a "teaching moment" as suggested by Joe Scarborough and Rush.
WIN the mid terms and the 2012 election, and guess what - the GOP gets to pick Judges and Justices - like DUH!

-S-

943 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:32:39am

re: #941 voluble

voluble -

Gov. Palin is to the Democratic Party as Kryptonite is to Superman. That is all, and quite enough.

-S-

944 Frater Eosphoros  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:33:19am

re: #941 voluble

I agree with you, If those Republicans would just play ball everything would go smoother. Then we can have a great one party government FOREVER.

945 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:33:59am

re: #941 voluble

With that disgusting comment, your LGF account is history. Bye now.

946 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:34:50am

I'm sad to say that large portions of this thread are making Noonan's point even better than she could have.

947 nyc redneck  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:45:03am

peggy has lost her way. she is trying to be noticed by the o set.
they won, after all.
her words of advice ring hollow to me. and ridiculously childish.
it's abt. her, not the gop.
she wants to be seen as reasonable and acceptable to the people in power.
a person who could be on the guest list for the belt-way parties.
she is so naive.
she's the one who needs to play "grownup.'
she should be embarrassed by that contrived, corny article.

948 [deleted]  Sat, May 30, 2009 10:01:09am
949 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 10:07:00am

re: #932 ihateronpaul

[Link: www.experience.com...]

This is why affirmative action still exists. It is a necessary evil. Probably one of the only good things Nixon did.


I suspect your take might be different if you were a white person who was denied admission to a medical school or a job because of it. Just my opinion.

950 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 30, 2009 10:14:23am

#948 Joel

Is there some reason why you feel you have to make ugly sexist remarks in response to this column? That was disgusting, and if you keep on in that vein I'm going to block your account.

951 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 30, 2009 10:22:08am

re: #920 The Dude

There's plenty of criticizing of those who want to purge the party of RINOs, but no explanation of how purging the party of social conservatives would help win elections.

That's because I have never advocated "purging the party of social conservatives." Why should I explain it when I've never said it?

I do think the party needs to eliminate the social conservative agenda from its platform -- or at least tone it down to a very large extent. Unfortunately, the kind of people who want to meddle in other people's lives and teach everyone's children creationism are not going to be happy about a reduced role, are they? The whole point for them is to have dominion over others. And there we have the GOP's big problem.

952 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, May 30, 2009 10:29:31am

re: #711 Flyers1974

I think calling Obama's comment disgusting to be a gross exaggeration. It seemed like an off the cuff remark and I assume it was. Everyone who is offended by a joke or remark says the same thing as you, just more politely: What the fuck does PC have to do with [insert here what you are sensitive about]

Go sit on a short stick, butthead...

953 semrocks  Sat, May 30, 2009 11:31:25am

The Republican Party needs to act "grown up"?!?! Is Noonan actually saying that the Democratic Party is acting "grown up"?!?! You know, grown ups pay their taxes, unlike a bevy of Obama appointees. Grown-ups don't debate by using phrases like "I won." Grown-ups take time to read and understand a contract before they sign it, not spend $700+ billion dollars without having a clue where the damn money is being spent.

Grown-ups don't engage in behavior and then chastise others for doing the same thing. Obama was part of a group that tried hard to filibuster Alito's nomination. Now he wants Congress to get past the petty politics of the past when it comes to HIS nomination?!?!

THIS is acting "grown-up"?!?!?! Being a grown-up is standing up for your principles, no matter the criticism from the "enlightened." Kudos to the Republicans for voting against the stimulus. Kudos to them for promising a thorough review of Obama's nominee. I left the party 4 years ago because it became a party I could no longer recognize. If they keep this up, I may come back. There is one party that seems like they are trying to act like grown-ups again. It sure the hell isn't the Democratic party...

954 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 30, 2009 11:57:11am

re: #953 semrocks

So you are saying because the Democrats act like idiots (highly function "getting things done" idiots as this article points out) the Republican party shouldn't bother to improve itself?

GREAT POINT

/

955 doubter4444  Sat, May 30, 2009 12:43:33pm

This thread is probably dead, but this from Larison, and it sort of backs up my thoughts on the Ricci case:

"On her vote in the Ricci case, it is fair to conclude that she and her colleagues came to the wrong conclusion as far as doing right by the plaintiff was concerned, but it also seems fair to say that federal law pushed them in the direction of reaching the wrong conclusion. An important point about the case that has been left out in many accounts is this:
In part, the city’s reaction was defensive. Because of the magnitude of the racial disparity on the exams, which would have ensured that white firefighters received the great majority of the promotions, an attorney for the city concluded that there was a strong likelihood of a lawsuit by African American and Latino firefighters if the promotion list generated by the test were used. Since Title VII was signed into law in 1964, it has been illegal for employers to use tests that have an unjustified racially “discriminatory effect.”
What this means is that the appeals court ruled against Ricci because it recognized that New Haven had tried to avoid a lawsuit that would have been possible and likely successful because of current law. In other words, the city tried to avoid falling afoul of the law, and the court did not penalize it for doing so. What is to blame in all of this is the law, rather than the judges who seem to have done what they were supposed to do. Indeed, what some people seem to have wanted to see Sotomayor do is to punish New Haven for trying to stay within the limits of the law, and for failing to do so she is declared to be an enemy of the rule of law. I submit that this doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Perhaps I have missed something, but the injustice done to Ricci seems in no small part to be a product of the law as it exists. However, under current law, even granting that the city of New Haven seems to have bungled the handling of the promotion test for its firefighters, it does not necessarily follow that throwing out the test results from the apparently flawed test was a violation of anyone’s legal rights. Presumably had Sotomayor found for the plaintiff, we would now be hearing about how all that infamous “empathy” caused her to side with the dyslexic man against a municipality–oh, the judicial activism!–and to open the latter up to long and costly litigation (which would, of course, demonstrate her abiding love of greedy trial lawyers, her desire to enrich fellow minorities and her hatred of patriotic firefighters, as so many people would be only too happy to tell us).
P.S. Also note that cheering “when justices fulfill their oaths and give everyone a fair hearing” is basically incompatible with complaining about what Sotomayor and the court did in the Ricci case. We keep hearing about how she thinks judges make policy–but instead, the court she sat on refused to make policy in this instance. Arguably, Ricci is one of those hard cases in which empathy is supposed to be crucial, but instead the result ended up looking a lot more like giving both sides a fair hearing and coming down on the politically incorrect (in the conservative view) side. We keep hearing about the dangers of empathy, but what was the denial of Ricci’s suit except an example of siding with the relatively more powerful (the city government) against the relatively weak (a dyslexic employee)? It seems to me that you can object to her position on Ricci’s suit, but if you do you can’t then say that she is guided by bleeding-heart sentimentality."

That's why if you actually look at the facts in the case, she's not acting in a racist or "judicial activist" manner.
Not that that will matter to those who want to squash her for at any cost, but it's kind of interesting.

956 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 1:48:54pm

re: #751 pingjockey

So you are happy with the debt load we've saddled the next 3 generations with? Gov't ownership of private business?
Ummm...Getting ready to sell Israel down the river?

I am not a happy camper, Ping. Just one who values accuracy and hates hyperbole. Throwing around crap like "worst president ever" as fact rather than opinion just ruins one's credibility and distracts from the very real issues at hand.

957 ladycatnip  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:09:55pm

#956 ShanghaiEd

I am not a happy camper, Ping. Just one who values accuracy and hates hyperbole. Throwing around crap like "worst president ever" as fact rather than opinion just ruins one's credibility and distracts from the very real issues at hand.

The One has certainly given us a Mt. Everest of fodder, that's for sure. Where were you for the last eight years of hyperbole and hatred of W?

958 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:21:12pm

re: #957 ladycatnip

#956 ShanghaiEd

The One has certainly given us a Mt. Everest of fodder, that's for sure. Where were you for the last eight years of hyperbole and hatred of W?

The last eight years? I was calling for facts and accuracy over hyperbole and hatred. You can imagine how popular I was. The job stinks, but it's the only talent I have, other than slamming my hand in a car door. :)

959 semrocks  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:25:35pm

re: #954 ihateronpaul

So you are saying because the Democrats act like idiots (highly function "getting things done" idiots as this article points out) the Republican party shouldn't bother to improve itself?

GREAT POINT

/

Not what I'm saying at all. I left the Republican Party because they began spending like Democrats and treating the rule of law like Democrats. It appears that they are beginning to return to what they used to be

But that's not what this article is about. The whole thrust of the article was how the Democrats are acting like "grown-ups" and that the Republicans aren't. I find that HIGHLY laughable, given their conduct. I pointed out a few examples, but one could easily cite many more.

It's a meme that I find in much of the media nowadays. If the Republicans would only act more like Democrats, people would flock to them. History tells us the exact opposite is the case...

960 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:26:53pm

re: #935 Korla Pundit

Actually, what you've got is a jillion folks criticizing a president, many of them rightly.

"Evidence" of a historical claim to "worst president ever" would be like...I don't know, a historian, maybe? A credible one, using facts and comparisons to argue his view?

Hyperbole is for extremists. Lord knows we've got enough legitimate facts on our side not to devolve into rants. Just my two cents.

961 ladycatnip  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:32:11pm

#958 ShanghaiEd

The last eight years? I was calling for facts and accuracy over hyperbole and hatred. You can imagine how popular I was. The job stinks, but it's the only talent I have, other than slamming my hand in a car door. :)

Appreciate it - have no problem as long as it goes both ways. And, careful there with the car door. ;-)

962 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:38:12pm

Calling on the GOP to pull away from the extreme right wing is not the same as calling on the GOP to be more like Democrats. You can be a conservative without being a raving nutjob, believe it or not, and being a moderate conservative is not the same as being a Democrat.

This kind of absolutist thinking will doom the GOP to decades in the wilderness.

963 Korla Pundit  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:50:22pm
"Evidence" of a historical claim to "worst president ever" would be like...I don't know, a historian, maybe? A credible one, using facts and comparisons to argue his view?

Historians talk about the past, friend. We are witnessing the destruction of our economy and the rule of law. By the time your "credible" historian can blow dust off his pages and show you the devastation of the early 2000s, we will all be long dead.

We didn't need a time capsule to tell us Jimmah Carter was a failure, even when he was still in office. That's why he was kicked out of office.

In the same way, we will all be very aware of what people like "conservative" Peggy Noonan wished upon this nation. And we will all know how very, very wrong she was. She already knows. That's why she's looking for a scapegoat in the party that didn't win.

964 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:57:15pm

re: #963 Korla Pundit

I hear where you're coming from, Korla, and I wish you the best.

Me, I'll muddle through with fact and reason.

965 ladycatnip  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:59:26pm

I take complete issue with Noonan's assertion that the dems are acting grownup "with a certain decorum, an kind of assumption of their natural stature". What a boatload of crap. What does that mean, anyway, other than being sycophantic B.S.

Within the first week Obama and his wife were telling 2nd graders, "We were just tired of being in the WH"; Obama goes to Europe and apologizes for his country. Obama forces head of GM to step down (that "natural stature" is called totalitarian); allows press to take shirtless pics of himself; gives asinine and inappropriate gifts to heads of other nations; always campaigning; bows to the king of Saudi Arabia; cozies up to Chavez; became the first sitting prez to ditch the Salute to Heroes Inaugural Ball since its inception in 1953. . .

There's so much more, but why bother when you have someone like Noonan extolling the stature and virtues of an Obama presidency.

She's been sucked into the borg.

966 ihateronpaul  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:00:19pm

re: #949 Joel

Well it wouldn't do any good to whine and moan about it. I don't live in the past. I'm just saying that article proves the 800-pound elephant in the room. Our society is still racist, if not openly even subconsciously. So affirmative action sucks and it's unfair yadda yadda but it balances out racism. I really wish it wasn't necessary, that would be great.

967 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:13:21pm

re: #966 ihateronpaul

Well it wouldn't do any good to whine and moan about it. I don't live in the past. I'm just saying that article proves the 800-pound elephant in the room. Our society is still racist, if not openly even subconsciously. So affirmative action sucks and it's unfair yadda yadda but it balances out racism. I really wish it wasn't necessary, that would be great.

Using racism to justify or enable further racism (especially against people such as myself and others who never exploited anyone and whose family was not even in the country at the time of slavery) is never right in my book.

Whatever happened to the concept of "judging people by the content of their character rather than by the color of their skin"?

968 chukardog  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:58:07pm

The only part where Noonan is right, is about the confirmation hearings. Don't grandstand, don't be vicious, just ask tough questions. The rest of the article is pure garbage.
The republicans don't need to do anything special, this administration is headed for a cliff. The economy is really going into the shitter and most clear thinking Americans are aghast at the whole GM bailout and the out of control spending.
One thing that needs to stop, is conservatives demonizing the religious right, thats what looney liberals do, stop buying into their utter bullshit propaganda. We DO need to a big tent. Conservatives tend to get more conservative as time goes by, so I don't have problem with guys like McCain being in the party, so long as they don't trying and tell us that to get elected, we need to e more like Democrats.

969 The Dude  Sat, May 30, 2009 4:14:45pm

re: #951 Charles

That's because I have never advocated "purging the party of social conservatives." Why should I explain it when I've never said it?

I do think the party needs to eliminate the social conservative agenda from its platform -- or at least tone it down to a very large extent. Unfortunately, the kind of people who want to meddle in other people's lives and teach everyone's children creationism are not going to be happy about a reduced role, are they? The whole point for them is to have dominion over others. And there we have the GOP's big problem.

I agree that the social conservative agenda needs to be toned down. Never said any differently. At the same time, many social conservatives think the fiscal conservative wing's agenda needs to be eliminated or at least toned down.

So now we have two wings of a dying party focusing on their disagreements with each other rather than on their bigger disagreements with the opposition party. And there we have the GOP's big problem. The fact that I'm more on your side of the GOP divide than the social conservative side doesn't mean I can't see what's happening and recognize it as a genuine problem.

970 loppyd  Sat, May 30, 2009 4:39:02pm

re: #947 nyc redneck

peggy has lost her way. she is trying to be noticed by the o set.
they won, after all.
her words of advice ring hollow to me. and ridiculously childish.
it's abt. her, not the gop.
she wants to be seen as reasonable and acceptable to the people in power.
a person who could be on the guest list for the belt-way parties.
she is so naive.
she's the one who needs to play "grownup.'
she should be embarrassed by that contrived, corny article.

Peggy Noonan showed her true colors during the campaign with her elitist statements re. Palin. Not so much in her columns, but her banter on shows like Morning Joe.

There was an air of superiority that bothered me greatly.

971 loppyd  Sat, May 30, 2009 4:41:08pm

re: #967 Joel

Using racism to justify or enable further racism (especially against people such as myself and others who never exploited anyone and whose family was not even in the country at the time of slavery) is never right in my book.

Whatever happened to the concept of "judging people by the content of their character rather than by the color of their skin"?

There is a reason that Lady Justice is wearing a blindfold.

To show preference to any group or individual because of their skin color or gender flies in the face of equality.

972 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:50:16pm

By far, the best overview I've seen of the Sotomayor uproar, a column by Julian Sanchez.

Sample quote:

...On a related note, I find the “what if a white man said that?” move incredibly grating about 99 percent of the time it’s used, because it’s almost always a way of blotting out all the reasons that it would, in fact, be different. In the instance, it would be weird for a white man to say it because it’s probably not true that the experience of growing up as a white male in the United States specifically enhances one’s understanding of what it means to be a disfavored minority. In other words, it just wouldn’t be true or reasonable in this case—though it might be for a white male who grew up as a religious or ethnic minority somewhere else in the world. So yes, sometimes formally gramatically equivalent statements will have different connotations depending on whether it’s a white person speaking about whites or a Latino speaking about Latinos, because history happened.

I realize this is, like, the worst racial injustice ever, but Republicans should realize how insanely tone-deaf they come across when they assert that Sotomayor’s is a “story of privilege” because she was “blessed by Providence with the precisely correct right race-gender two-fer for the moment”—as opposed to poor schmucks saddled with surnames like Bush, I suppose, who had to claw their way into the Ivies on their own merits.

973 Korla Pundit  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:12:41pm
Me, I'll muddle through with fact and reason.

Well, goody for you. But how selfish to horde it all for yourself, never having shared any of it.

974 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:40:33pm

re: #973 Korla Pundit

Nope, I don't horde. Or hoard, either.

Like most people here, I post links all the time to facts and reasoned commentary that I find useful. See note #972, for instance.

975 freetoken  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:56:39pm

re: #974 ShanghaiEd

Nope, I don't horde. Or hoard, either.

Nor whored.

976 semrocks  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:18:57pm

re: #962 Charles

Calling on the GOP to pull away from the extreme right wing is not the same as calling on the GOP to be more like Democrats. You can be a conservative without being a raving nutjob, believe it or not, and being a moderate conservative is not the same as being a Democrat.

This kind of absolutist thinking will doom the GOP to decades in the wilderness.

Not when it comes to spending, taxes, foreign policy and the rule of law. The Republican controlled Congress spent like Democrats and look what happened. Several pushed amnesty, and look what happened. Social conservatism has it's place, but let's face it, when push comes to shove, people vote their pocketbooks. Fiscal conservatism is a winning agenda. They need to push and push and push this. It is the KEY difference between the 2 parties. Or, at least it used to be.

Not a single Republican voted for this $700+ billion monstrosity. That's a start. They need to keep this up and they'll win me back...

977 Korla Pundit  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:29:31pm

Well, I'm glad your spellcheck is working at least.

But glib opinion columns do not a single fact make.

The links I gave you were actually about facts, not fluff punditry. Facts detailing a disastrous Presidency, like the helpful graph showing Obama's devastating deficit. That is beyond debate. It is fact.

Worst. President. Ever.

Unless you can link to a factual article on another President who nationalized our banks, financial institutions, auto industry and soon medical industry, while driving our credit rating into the gutter and putting us into hopeless debt to hostile foreign powers.

No. You can't. But you sure can catch a typo.

978 JacksonTn  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:44:20pm

re: #575 Flyers1974

Teleprompter - Not terribly compelling evil to most.
Bowling/Special Olympics joke - The Dems don't care and I thought the Republicans were against P.C.
Obama laughing - Laugh and the world laughs with you.

flyer ... we get it HE WON! ... there is not much that you can tell the Lizard crew about the campaign ... you were not here when it was going on ... there was much discovery ... and yeah, THE DEMS DON'T CARE ... all they cared about was the perfect vehicle to get a dem in the White House ... he will not be in office forever ... and for me ... I will do whatever it takes to keep him from getting elected in 2012 ...

979 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:04:47pm

re: #971 loppyd

There is a reason that Lady Justice is wearing a blindfold.

To show preference to any group or individual because of their skin color or gender flies in the face of equality.

Exactly. Once you start discriminating against others in order to make up for previous discrimination - where does it end? Should the children of Michael Jordan a multi, multi, multi millionaire be given preference over your brothers kids?

980 Joel  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:07:15pm

re: #968 chukardog

The only part where Noonan is right, is about the confirmation hearings. Don't grandstand, don't be vicious, just ask tough questions. The rest of the article is pure garbage.
The republicans don't need to do anything special, this administration is headed for a cliff. The economy is really going into the shitter and most clear thinking Americans are aghast at the whole GM bailout and the out of control spending.


What I fear besides the hideous deficits is the strong possibility, yes probability - of hyper inflation.

981 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:16:37pm

re: #977 Korla Pundit

The fact that you openly bill yourself as a hate site is bothersome to me, but maybe there's a joke or irony there I don't get, so I'll let that go for now.

I think I see where you're coming from, as to ground rules of the discussion. Your links are factual and credible, my links are glib opinion...according to a standard that's determined by...you.

A winning strategy for argument, I'm sure. If you can find someone willing to play a rigged game. My curiosity in this regard will expire, I'm guessing, roughly around midnight. So let's wait and see.

In the meantime, a thought experiment: the president is doing some wide-ranging things that both annoy and frighten you, me, and millions of other people. This is a fact.

In the real world, presidents are only judged against their peers once they have served their term/s. Let's say, by one-in-a-billion chance, Obama's disturbing actions of four months' time somehow work out for the good of the country, four years or eight years from now. Nobody can prove it won't.

Once he's had all his at-bats, I'll entertain all credible views on his being worst or best president ever. In the words of political scientist Yogi Berra, "It ain't over till it's over." Until then, the only 100% factual statement you and I can agree on is, "Obama pisses off Korla Pundit worse than any president ever."

I'll leave you with my thought for the day:

Avoid zealots. They are generally humorless.
--Anonymous

982 bungie  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:18:55pm

. . . fiddling while Rome burns.

983 Korla Pundit  Sat, May 30, 2009 8:58:45pm
The fact that you openly bill yourself as a hate site is bothersome to me, but maybe there's a joke or irony there I don't get, so I'll let that go for now.

There's this new thing they have come up with called a sense of humor. You should get one. They sell them used for real cheap at Amazon. Since you bothered to check out my site, you should have come away with a little more of a clue.

984 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:28:01pm

re: #983 Korla Pundit

Got it. Hate is hilarious, these days.

Uh, no.

985 Korla Pundit  Sat, May 30, 2009 10:05:56pm

Do you have an extra GO TO 10 line?

986 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 10:27:45pm

re: #985 Korla Pundit

Do you have an extra GO TO 10 line?

Not at the moment. Can I borrow yours? :)

Enjoyed the discussion. It's past midnight here. I'm heading out.


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