ABC: The Emergence of Obama’s Muslim Roots

Politics • Views: 5,109

Suddenly, now that it’s politically opportune, Barack Obama is no longer shy about admitting he has Muslim roots.

We had several posts about this at LGF during the campaign, of course. And no, this doesn’t mean he’s a “sekrit Muslim Manchurian candidate,” but it is a revealing look at the political maneuvering Obama did to get elected.

During a conference call in preparation for President Obama’s trip to Cairo, Egypt, where he will address the Muslim world, deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Denis McDonough said “the President himself experienced Islam on three continents before he was able to — or before he’s been able to visit, really, the heart of the Islamic world — you know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father — obviously Muslim Americans (are) a key part of Illinois and Chicago.”

Given widespread unease and prejudice against Muslims among Americans, especially in the wake of 9/11, the Obama campaign was perhaps understandably very sensitive during the primaries and general election to downplay the candidate’s Muslim roots.

The candidate was even offended when referred to by his initials�“BHO,” because he considered the use of his middle name, “Hussein,” an attempt to frighten voters.

With insane rumors suggesting he was some sort of Muslim Manchurian candidate, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and his campaign did everything they could to emphasize his Christianity and de-emphasize the fact that his father, Barack Obama Sr., was born Muslim.

The candidate’s comment at a Boca Raton, Florida, town hall meeting on May 22, 2008, was typical: “My father was basically agnostic, as far as I can tell, and I didn’t know him,” he said.

The comments for this article at ABC’s Political Punch blog are predictably wacko:

Haven’t you heard about the sunni prophecy? A “tall black man” commanding “the strongest army on earth” will take power “in the west.” He will carry “a clear sign” from the third imam, Hussein. Ali says of the tall black man: “Shiites should have no doubt that he is with us.”

Barack Hussein in Arabic means “the blessing of Hussein.” In Persian, Obama translates as “He [is] with us.” Thus does the name of the presumptive American president-elect, when combined with his physical attributes and geography, suggest that the End of Times is nigh – precisely what Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been predicting. Hold onto your tin foil hats, this could make for an interesting visit.

Posted by: km | Jun 2, 2009 8:32:27 PM

…

The American Liberal Media would put HITLER into office today if he were running for President.
Obama’s Socialism is as close to Hitler, as Hitler was close to Joseph Goebbels

Posted by: Airborne869 | Jun 2, 2009 8:31:46 PM

…

I hope he is Muslim and ends the American support of the state of Israel. I am Sick of paying for that state in a sea of Arabs. Let them fight it out and the winner prevails. Nukes or not!

Posted by: jonny | Jun 2, 2009 8:31:44 PM

…

Of course he`s a muslim.He is trying to give Jerusalem to to the Palestinians.That`s why he`s hiding his birth certificate

Posted by: RedDog | Jun 2, 2009 8:31:27 PM

…

HE IS AN IMPOSTOR — IMPEACH HIM NOW!

Posted by: Dave | Jun 2, 2009 8:31:05 PM

Good grief.

Jump to bottom

744 comments
1 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:43:37pm

I’m getting alot better at not commenting til I take a few deep breaths

2 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:43:56pm

Imagine that; just imagine that. Barry’s ace-in-the-hole and greatest asset in foreign policy is the very thing about which no one was ever permitted to speak.

3 Kragar  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:44:05pm

When asked why bring it up now, the WH response was:

“We won.”

4 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:44:18pm

Obama is what every his audience wants.

To the Jews he’s for a unified Jerusalem.
To the Muslims, he has Muslim roots.

I wonder what he’s like when his with his homies. Davis, Cloward, Pivens, Ayers, Wright, the real Obama.

5 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:44:38pm

re: #4 jcm

Obama is what every his audience wants.

To the Jews he’s for a unified Jerusalem.
To the Muslims, he has Muslim roots.

I wonder what he’s like when his with his homies. Davis, Cloward, Pivens, Ayers, Wright, the real Obama.

Maybe there is no real Obama.

6 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:44:56pm

on the other hand the comments posted are way over the top, if not hysterical

7 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:46:04pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

When asked why bring it up now, the WH response was:

“We won. You ain’t seen nothin yet”

8 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:46:26pm

re: #5 Guanxi88

Maybe there is no real Obama.

I don’t know which is scarier. A Obama rooted in his life long associations with Marxists, or a Obama with no core values?

Neither is good.

9 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:46:29pm

re: #6 albusteve

on the other hand the comments posted are way over the top, if not hysterical

Eh, so who’s surprised?

These nut-jobs just KNEW he was crypto-Muslim. Now that he doesn’t have to deny it, and can in fact maybe score some points from it, out comes his “Muslim background.” It’s the same thing as Albright discovering she was Jewish.

10 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:47:06pm
the President himself experienced Islam on three continents

What does it mean to “experience Islam”?

11 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:47:22pm

No shit. What do you expect? This country has huge amounts of anti-muslim racism, he did what any sane candidate would do.

12 Ming  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:47:28pm

I think we all understand that President Obama has a background that’s quite different from previous Presidents, and quite different from many other Americans. So what? Diversity can be a good thing. Thus far, the President seems to be working his butt off trying to stabilize the economy, and he seems eager to make progress on a variety of issues. I certainly have my disagreements with him. Actually, I’m very unhappy at the way he has favored the United Auto Workers, who will continue their decades-long shakedown operations, this time directly from the federal treasury. But I can point to disagreements I would have had with all other previous Presidents as well. Obama has a Muslim background from his father’s family, and a Christian background from his mother’s family (actually, it appears that neither of his parents was especially involved with their religion). His background includes Kansas, Hawaii, and Chicago. He’s part of the amazing diversity of the 50 states. Nothing wrong with that.

13 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:47:38pm

I’d say we’ll find out over the next few days, as he goes to the Arab countries (but not Israel). However, he still could change his mind by the time he gets back to the US.
Given the pressure he’s putting on Israel - and the lack of pressure on the Paliterrorists, I doubt he’ll be saying something different, though.

14 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:47:48pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

What does it mean to “experience Islam”?

Doesn’t usually involve losing ones head?

//

15 Kragar  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:47:56pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

What does it mean to “experience Islam”?

9-11-01

16 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:48:04pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

What does it mean to “experience Islam”?

I have my own opinion I’ll not share here….

17 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:48:32pm

re: #11 ihateronpaul

No shit. What do you expect? This country has huge amounts of anti-muslim racism, he did what any sane candidate would do.

Seriously, we expect all candidates to lie their asses off and the media to lap it up.

18 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:49:00pm

re: #12 Ming

I think we all understand that President Obama has a background that’s quite different from previous Presidents, and quite different from many other Americans. So what? Diversity can be a good thing. Thus far, the President seems to be working his butt off trying to stabilize the economy, and he seems eager to make progress on a variety of issues. I certainly have my disagreements with him. Actually, I’m very unhappy at the way he has favored the United Auto Workers, who will continue their decades-long shakedown operations, this time directly from the federal treasury. But I can point to disagreements I would have had with all other previous Presidents as well. Obama has a Muslim background from his father’s family, and a Christian background from his mother’s family (actually, it appears that neither of his parents was especially involved with their religion). His background includes Kansas, Hawaii, and Chicago. He’s part of the amazing diversity of the 50 states. Nothing wrong with that.

Or you could like rush and call obama a “reverse racist” candidate, because some people voted him to prove that a president doesn’t have to be a privileged white man.

Thank you for taking a reasoned stance on this.

19 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:49:11pm

Do I read this right?

The Obama campaign, fearing the racist American public, hid his Muslim roots?

20 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:49:11pm

So he is a fuck en hypocrite! Tell me something I didn’t know. I don’t know what the give away was for me. Ah maybe his wife getting that sugar tit job at a Chicago Hospital when he was elected to the Senate? Or sitting in a racist “Church” for 20 freak en years and never hearing anything? Or….ah what the fuck. I know what he is. You know what he is. To bad the electorate are so ignorant.

21 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:49:13pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

What does it mean to “experience Islam”?

I don’t know what it means for Obama, but I know what it means for Daniel Pearl, and Leon Klinghoffer, almost 3000 people in NYC back in 2001, …

22 Steve Rogers  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:49:14pm

In order for Obama to be a Muslim (or a Christian) he would have to accept that there is a higher power than himself. I think he (along with most politicians) may have a difficult time doing that.

23 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:49:34pm

As to the comments on that story.

I love it when people try to frame Hitler as a “Socialist”, and therefore, “Left Wing”.

It’s the No True Scotsman argument.

24 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:07pm

he’s already under fire, why would they be saying these things now?….it seems like he should just hunker down a forge ahead….this could go off like a bomb in his face….is he just paying tribute to the Muslims?

25 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:11pm
26 irongrampa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:16pm

But we mustn’t wish him to fail.

27 Steffan  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:17pm

Somebody’s been inhaling too much of the Kool-Aid over there.

During the election, it was very convenient for the MSM to gloss over this.

Now, it’s very convenient for the MSM to notice it.

So what happens if when the Left finally loses their admiration for the Hopenchange Machine? Will Olbermann have the same kind of meltdown he used to have for Bush or Cheney?

Enquiring minds want to know!

28 screaming_eagle  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:30pm

I sure hope we aren’t visited by space aliens during O’s presidency, cause I don’t wanna have to listen to the tales of Obama’s Martian roots.

29 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:40pm

Can we call him Hussein now?

30 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:43pm

Not surprised. Anyone who voted for Obama will never get a seat at my dinner table.

31 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:50:48pm

re: #22 Steve Rogers

In order for Obama to be a Muslim (or a Christian) he would have to accept that there is a higher power than himself. I think he (along with most politicians) may have a difficult time doing that.

It’s no secret that most politicians are in it for the ego and recognition, unless at a very local level. Sadly in this country sometimes one can make more change as a lobbyist than as a legislator.

32 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:51:18pm

re: #30 Afrocity

Not surprised. Anyone who voted for Obama will never get a seat at my dinner table.

Really? You sound like a really nice guy.

/

33 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:51:21pm

re: #12 Ming

I think we all understand that President Obama has a background that’s quite different from previous Presidents, and quite different from many other Americans. So what? Diversity can be a good thing. Thus far, the President seems to be working his butt off trying to stabilize the economy, and he seems eager to make progress on a variety of issues. I certainly have my disagreements with him. Actually, I’m very unhappy at the way he has favored the United Auto Workers, who will continue their decades-long shakedown operations, this time directly from the federal treasury. But I can point to disagreements I would have had with all other previous Presidents as well. Obama has a Muslim background from his father’s family, and a Christian background from his mother’s family (actually, it appears that neither of his parents was especially involved with their religion). His background includes Kansas, Hawaii, and Chicago. He’s part of the amazing diversity of the 50 states. Nothing wrong with that.

Is background is defined by who raised him and who he associated with. There is one common thing in background and it’s not diverse, it’s red as can be.

He attempts to salvage the economy have been tried before and failed, and he got the ideas for his background.

So far in a few short months he’s virtually nationalized a large part of the financial sector, now the automotive and health care next.

I really don’t care for that kind of diversity. Especially when it’s a proven path to failure.

34 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:51:35pm

re: #26 irongrampa

But we mustn’t wish him to fail.

I bet Israel is wishing for the good old days of President Bush. Sigh.

35 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:51:45pm

Time to feed the dogs.
Back in a bit.

36 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:51:45pm

re: #29 JammieWearingFool

Can we call him Hussein now?

Only this week.

37 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:51:54pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

What does it mean to “experience Islam”?


Islam is practiced very differently in various parts of the world. The have different customs and different levels of tolerance. This has changed over the past few decades with Wahabi funded mosques popping up in places like Indonesia. It is very interesting to experience various Islamic cultures.

38 callahan23  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:52:37pm

re: #32 ihateronpaul

Really? You sound like a really nice guyall.

/

FTFY

39 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:52:44pm

re: #25 buzzsawmonkey

What about Michelle?

Are you questioning Michelle’s right to bare arms?

40 rain of lead  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:53:03pm

wow, Obama is Muslim, who knew?

oh wait….. lizards did!

41 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:53:12pm

re: #35 Kosh’s Shadow

Time to feed the dogs.
Back in a bit.

Shit like this is raw meat to me!

42 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:53:16pm

re: #30 Afrocity

Not surprised. Anyone who voted for Obama will never get a seat at my dinner table.

Just made XMAS plans (in FL this yr) with all the family. They ALL voted for him.

43 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:53:21pm

The shrieking will only get worse.

44 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:53:42pm
45 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:53:47pm

re: #26 irongrampa

But we mustn’t wish him to fail.

He screwed over Detroit and Israel in one freaking week.

That means that I, personally, and my children and their children are LITERALLY paying for his “success.”

Spit.

46 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:53:57pm

re: #12 Ming

I think we all understand that President Obama has a background that’s quite different from previous Presidents, and quite different from many other Americans. So what? Diversity can be a good thing. Thus far, the President seems to be working his butt off trying to stabilize the economy, and he seems eager to make progress on a variety of issues. I certainly have my disagreements with him. Actually, I’m very unhappy at the way he has favored the United Auto Workers, who will continue their decades-long shakedown operations, this time directly from the federal treasury. But I can point to disagreements I would have had with all other previous Presidents as well. Obama has a Muslim background from his father’s family, and a Christian background from his mother’s family (actually, it appears that neither of his parents was especially involved with their religion). His background includes Kansas, Hawaii, and Chicago. He’s part of the amazing diversity of the 50 states. Nothing wrong with that.

I don’t see things quite as optimistically as you do. Let’s go down the list:

1) Working his butt off to stabilize the economy? How, by nationalizing industry and castigating capital. An unorthodox strategy, at best. I’d rather he slacked a little more, if that’s him working.

2) The UAW got too good a deal, and are now a de facto branch of the FedGov? And who’s surprised? A nationalized economy can as little tolerate private labor organizations as it can private businesses.

3) Neither his father (nor step-father) nor his mother were terribly observant of their faiths. True enough, but notice it was at madrassas that he studied, and as a Muslim he lived, when in Indonesia. That ain’t diversity, my friend, that’s a Muslim education. Call it what you want, but it’s very different than we’ve ever had at the helm here, and it’s not clear to me that it’s a positive. Stirs up paranoia among anti-Muslim bigots, and bizarre expectations among Muslim fanatics.

4) I defy anyone here to name anyone with a background as uniformly internationalist, transnationalist, and/or Leftist than Barry’s holding any office higher than Governor. You can’t; the man’s background is unprecedented, and, in many parts, largely unknown. There’s a great deal wrong with that.

47 Kragar  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:03pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

The shrieking will only get worse.

Worse? Or better?

/

48 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:08pm

There’s nothing in that ABC report that wasn’t known before the election. What’s the news?

49 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:10pm

re: #44 buzzsawmonkey

Right. Two bare arms.

Such toned arms!

50 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:30pm

re: #42 unrealizedviewpoint

My family did too. Life long Republicans. I’ll visit sometime after the holidays.

51 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:36pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Islam is practiced very differently in various parts of the world. The have different customs and different levels of tolerance. This has changed over the past few decades with Wahabi funded mosques popping up in places like Indonesia. It is very interesting to experience various Islamic cultures.

but what does experiencing Islam mean to Obama?…of course they didn’t go into any detail….that’s the question

52 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:42pm
53 Bloodnok  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:48pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

The shrieking will only get worse.

Over/Under on spelling errors and exclamation points at Atlas Shrieks post about this is being set at 25.

54 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:54:49pm
I hope he is Muslim and ends the American support of the state of Israel. I am Sick of paying for that state in a sea of Arabs. Let them fight it out and the winner prevails. Nukes or not!

Posted by: jonny %P% Jun 2, 2009 8:31:44 PM

Yes- be sure to sneak some anti-Semitism in there too. Gross.

55 iceman1960  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:55:01pm

I really don’t give a rat’s rear end if he’s a practicing wiccan.
I’m more concerned with what his policies are going to do to us.

56 screaming_eagle  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:55:31pm

re: #44 buzzsawmonkey

Right. Two bare arms.

No wonder I disagree with Obama about the 2nd amendment.

57 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:55:41pm
58 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:55:47pm

re: #44 buzzsawmonkey

Right. Two bare arms.

Michelle Obama and Chuck Norris in Deltoid Force

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:55:47pm

re: #20 Nevergiveup

Kinda OT…Did you know there is a “Sugar Tit” South Carolina?

60 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:55:48pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

The shrieking will only get worse.

That shrieking you are gonna hear is the collective scream of Eretz Yisrael as Obama and his pals in Washington start squeezing their Batzem real hard.

61 Steffan  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:56:09pm

re: #8 jcm

I don’t know which is scarier. A Obama rooted in his life long associations with Marxists, or a Obama with no core values?

Neither is good.

I’m beginning to think he has no core values.

Marxism was convenient in the solidly Democratic neighborhoods he came from, when he was a state legislator. It was also useful when he ran for the Senate.

He’s finding out that he can’t vote “present” any more. He’s adopting as many of the Bush methods and practices that he has because he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. As for GM, compare it to Taggart Transcontinental after the Railroad Unification Act passed. He’s taking the wrong lessons from Atlas Shrugged.

62 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:56:30pm

Charles, how true it is that this speaks of the political maneuvering Obama did to get elected.

63 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:56:57pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Kinda OT…Did you know there is a “Sugar Tit” South Carolina?

No but give me directions and I might moved there?

64 Bloodnok  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:57:01pm

re: #24 albusteve

he’s already under fire, why would they be saying these things now?….it seems like he should just hunker down a forge ahead….this could go off like a bomb in his face….is he just paying tribute to the Muslims?

Yup. Annoying pandering. It’s nothing new, but irritating nonetheless.

65 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:57:10pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Islam is practiced very differently in various parts of the world.

Gosh, Killgore, I had no idea. Thanks.

/see, I was referring to the political weasel language, actually

66 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:57:19pm

It should be noted that when Barack Obama was in Indonesia, they were about as close to being an example of moderate Islam as any country ever has been — before the Wahhabis gained so much influence.

67 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:57:59pm

re: #51 albusteve

but what does experiencing Islam mean to Obama?

Probably the same thing that it means to anyone else who has traveled in the Islamic world. I know it might shock some people here but I find the morning call to prayer a very moving experience. I wouldn’t want to hear it every day but I have some very fond memories. I wish I could travel more in the Islam world but it’s just not very safe.

68 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:58:02pm

re: #64 Bloodnok

Yup. Annoying pandering. It’s nothing new, but irritating nonetheless.

Sword Dance.

69 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:58:06pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

My family did too. Life long Republicans. I’ll visit sometime after the holidays.

It’s coal for all em.
/

70 Tamron  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:58:37pm

THE BEAST — Obama’s new armored car.

Any bets on how many miles per gallon, or what it’ll do in the quarter mile?
.

71 anchors_aweigh  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:58:40pm

Aren’t muslims also creationists?

72 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:59:09pm

re: #71 anchors_aweigh

Aren’t muslims also creationists?

Well, the silly ones are.

73 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:59:44pm

re: #71 anchors_aweigh

Aren’t muslims also creationists?

Muslims are like any other human beings. There are some creationists, and some who are sane.

74 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:59:48pm

re: #71 anchors_aweigh

Aren’t muslims also creationists?

Many are, yes. But I’ve also read some muslims use the koran to support evolution too.

75 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:59:50pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Probably the same thing that it means to anyone else who has traveled in the Islamic world. I know it might shock some people here but I find the morning call to prayer a very moving experience. I wouldn’t want to hear it every day but I have some very fond memories. I wish I could travel more in the Islam world but it’s just not very safe.

he probably enjoyed the architecture to, but I was thinking more in ideological terms

76 irongrampa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:59:53pm

I see nothing wrong in wishing for Obama to fail.

The country won’t collapse, it survived Carter—hell it survived the RESIGNATION of a sitting President with barely a hiccup.

I submit the country WILL fail, if this man succeeds in remaking it into his image of what it should be.

And i hope the consequences of his failure ensures the left wanders in the political wilderness for decades.

77 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:00:09pm

re: #66 Charles

When I was there in the 80’s they were very tolerant and had no problems with foreigners walking around their mosques as long as you took your shoes off. I doubt that is the case today.

78 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:00:12pm

Cool … just in time for his Bow Tour … nothing like kissing cousins …

oh, and I guess this puts that Islamic Community Day he sponsored in the Illinois Senate a little closer to home …

/head has now officially exploded … again …

79 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:00:16pm

re: #73 Charles

Muslims are like any other human beings. There are some creationists, and some who are sane.

good one…

80 KingKenrod  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:00:16pm

I keep wondering how Obama is going to get his hooks into Ford.

I wonder if there is a legal basis for Ford to de-certify the UAW as a labor representative. The UAW’s large stake in competitors is a conflict of interest.

81 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:00:30pm

The media avoided asking questions before the election. Obama purposefully lied and obfuscated the truth to get elected by minimizing his Muslim heritage. The Administration is now suddenly inflating or proffering the fact that he’s got Muslim roots.

Yeah, this stinks to high heaven, and the media failed the American people in a big way.

This is going to give all those birthers and others who question Obama’s legitimacy as President more kindling for their theories.

And the Administration is willingly pushing this because they’re now trying to appear more friendly to the Middle East regimes. Obama will say and do anything for any purpose - and yet the purposes aren’t exactly clear.

My head hurts from all this. I’m angry. I’m pissed. I’m severely pissed that our nation’s media was so intent upon getting rid of President Bush that they latched on to anything but - and didn’t want to address any of the nagging issues that were raised from the outset.

82 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:00:46pm

Yankees scored 7 runs and batters are getting thrown at left and right. Things are heating up.

83 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:00:56pm

I think “political maneuvering” is an understatement. He flat-out lied. He was raised as a Muslim boy, when he was growing up in Indonesia. He later converted to Christianity, and was an active and regularly attending member of a racist Christian church in Chicago for many years.

It’s fine with me if he was a Muslim when he was a little boy. Kids don’t choose their own religion, and besides, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with being Muslim. There are lots of wonderful, civilized, moderate Muslims in the world, and I’d elect one president if he or she were the right person. But if Obama is really so respectful of the Muslim faith, then why did he feel the need to lie during the election and claim that he had never been a Muslim?

84 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:01:28pm

re: #23 Hawaii69

As to the comments on that story.

I love it when people try to frame Hitler as a “Socialist”, and therefore, “Left Wing”.

It’s the No True Scotsman argument.

I thought Hitler was a “progressive” and therefore, “Left Wing”

85 Tamron  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:01:30pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Kinda OT…Did you know there is a “Sugar Tit” South Carolina?

I’ve been to Tatitlek, Alaska. It’s not a big deal.
.

86 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:01:46pm

re: #12 Ming

Ming … that would be 57 states to you buddy … just kidding … kinda …

87 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:01:54pm
88 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:01:55pm

re: #66 Charles

Thank you Charles! It needs to be said.

89 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:02:06pm

re: #83 Last Mohican

I think “political maneuvering” is an understatement. He flat-out lied. He was raised as a Muslim boy, when he was growing up in Indonesia. He later converted to Christianity, and was an active and regularly attending member of a racist Christian church in Chicago for many years.

It’s fine with me if he was a Muslim when he was a little boy. Kids don’t choose their own religion, and besides, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with being Muslim. There are lots of wonderful, civilized, moderate Muslims in the world, and I’d elect one president if he or she were the right person. But if Obama is really so respectful of the Muslim faith, then why did he feel the need to lie during the election and claim that he had never been a Muslim?

Well, he learned from Wright, Ayers, et al how viciously bigoted American are, so….

90 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:02:32pm

re: #66 Charles

It should be noted that when Barack Obama was in Indonesia, they were about as close to being an example of moderate Islam as any country ever has been — before the Wahhabis gained so much influence.

…and that he was 10

91 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:02:41pm

re: #75 albusteve

I think you guys are reading too much into that statement. It doesn’t strike me as odd, confusing or ambiguous at all.

92 jaunte  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:02:59pm

re: #84 ggt

Fascism is usually progressive, in the “racing towards collapse” sense.

93 Bloodnok  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:02:59pm

re: #81 lawhawk

The media avoided asking questions before the election. Obama purposefully lied and obfuscated the truth to get elected by minimizing his Muslim heritage. The Administration is now suddenly inflating or proffering the fact that he’s got Muslim roots.

Yeah, this stinks to high heaven, and the media failed the American people in a big way.

This is going to give all those birthers and others who question Obama’s legitimacy as President more kindling for their theories.

And the Administration is willingly pushing this because they’re now trying to appear more friendly to the Middle East regimes. Obama will say and do anything for any purpose - and yet the purposes aren’t exactly clear.

My head hurts from all this. I’m angry. I’m pissed. I’m severely pissed that our nation’s media was so intent upon getting rid of President Bush that they latched on to anything but - and didn’t want to address any of the nagging issues that were raised from the outset.

I agree. I am angrier at the MSM for not doing their job than I am at just another politician lying to win an election.

94 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:03:11pm

re: #61 Steffan

I’m beginning to think he has no core values.

Marxism was convenient in the solidly Democratic neighborhoods he came from, when he was a state legislator. It was also useful when he ran for the Senate.

He’s finding out that he can’t vote “present” any more. He’s adopting as many of the Bush methods and practices that he has because he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. As for GM, compare it to Taggart Transcontinental after the Railroad Unification Act passed. He’s taking the wrong lessons from Atlas Shrugged.

Excellent points and well stated….. you may be right, but I’m still looking at his past to clues to the man.

95 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:03:13pm

re: #83 Last Mohican

I think “political maneuvering” is an understatement. He flat-out lied. He was raised as a Muslim boy, when he was growing up in Indonesia. He later converted to Christianity, and was an active and regularly attending member of a racist Christian church in Chicago for many years.

It’s fine with me if he was a Muslim when he was a little boy. Kids don’t choose their own religion, and besides, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with being Muslim. There are lots of wonderful, civilized, moderate Muslims in the world, and I’d elect one president if he or she were the right person. But if Obama is really so respectful of the Muslim faith, then why did he feel the need to lie during the election and claim that he had never been a Muslim?

Because first and foremost he is a lying deceiving cowardly chicken shit politician.

96 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:03:22pm
97 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:03:32pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

I think you guys are reading too much into that statement. It doesn’t strike me as odd, confusing or ambiguous at all.

neither do I…it’s just a broad statement I’d like him to pin down

98 anchors_aweigh  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:03:43pm

re: #66 Charles

It should be noted that when Barack Obama was in Indonesia, they were about as close to being an example of moderate Islam as any country ever has been — before the Wahhabis gained so much influence.

That’s because it (Indonesia) was a military dictatorship.

Sukarno - Suharto

99 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:04:02pm

re: #81 lawhawk

Obama purposefully lied and obfuscated the truth to get elected by minimizing his Muslim heritage.


He certainly downplayed it. That was the smart political move to make. I don’t think he lied.

100 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:04:08pm

re: #66 Charles

It should be noted that when Barack Obama was in Indonesia, they were about as close to being an example of moderate Islam as any country ever has been — before the Wahhabis gained so much influence.

Charles … yes, that is probably true … but when can we find out about the trip to Pakistan … I mean … he is the president … and I know the answer … we will not …

101 iceman1960  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:04:40pm

Speaking of religion.
It’s always good to make sure someone isn’t a satanist before you ask them to pray for you.

102 rain of lead  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:04:47pm

re: #78 JacksonTn

hey girl,
hope the weather is ok for wed, looking iffy

103 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:04:47pm

re: #83 Last Mohican

I think “political maneuvering” is an understatement. He flat-out lied. He was raised as a Muslim boy, when he was growing up in Indonesia. He later converted to Christianity, and was an active and regularly attending member of a racist Christian church in Chicago for many years.

It’s fine with me if he was a Muslim when he was a little boy. Kids don’t choose their own religion, and besides, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with being Muslim. There are lots of wonderful, civilized, moderate Muslims in the world, and I’d elect one president if he or she were the right person. But if Obama is really so respectful of the Muslim faith, then why did he feel the need to lie during the election and claim that he had never been a Muslim?

A politician who lies? Imagine my shock!

104 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:04:53pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

He certainly downplayed it. That was the smart political move to make. I don’t think he lied.

“I did not have sex with that women”

105 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:04:59pm
106 tedzilla99  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:05:17pm

The word “lying” uses a lot less letters than “political maneuvering” and is more succinct.

107 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:05:28pm

re: #97 albusteve

He’d probably give the same answer I did. Your point about architecture was a good one though.

108 jaunte  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:05:32pm

re: #104 Nevergiveup

JFK?

109 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:05:42pm

re: #30 Afrocity

Not surprised. Anyone who voted for Obama will never get a seat at my dinner table.

Hurt my feeling there sweetie, I’ll break bread with anyone that enjoys polite conversation.

110 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:06:10pm

How do you tell when a politician is lying….

His lips are moving.

111 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:06:12pm

I don’t recall him actually saying outright that he was “never a Muslim,” by the way. The political maneuvering was more in the nature of obfuscation and rhetorical tap-dancing around the issue.

112 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:06:26pm

re: #104 Nevergiveup

I did not inhale.
No New Taxes.
I am not a crook.

113 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:06:26pm

re: #93 Bloodnok

I agree. I am angrier at the MSM for not doing their job than I am at just another politician lying to win an election.

It doesn’t help that the media is still being such limp wristed water carriers. Or they’re busy being parodies of themselves. I hate the msm.

114 livefreeor die  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:06:29pm

I’m wondering how many long term allies he is going to piss off/ throw under the bus during his speech in Egypt. We could start a pool.

115 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:07:21pm

re: #109 avanti

Hurt my feeling there sweetie, I’ll break bread with anyone that enjoys polite conversation.

“hey Rasputin!….pass the cream cheese!”

116 rain of lead  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:07:33pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

I did not inhale.
No New Taxes.
I am not a crook.

“I’m from the government and I’m here to help you”

117 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:07:34pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

I did not inhale.
No New Taxes.
I am not a crook.

Well between yours and mine Clinton has a daily double?

118 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:08:06pm

re: #106 tedzilla99

The word “lying” uses a lot less letters than “political maneuvering” and is more succinct.

If he didn’t lie, he mangled the truth. Or more precisely, he let others do it for him.

119 Tarkus289  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:08:09pm

re: #114 livefreeor die

I’m pretty sure he has covered them all already, in one way or another.

120 callahan23  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:08:21pm

Goodnight to y’all. (Lizardim} love you, mostly.

121 Wendya  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:08:37pm

Instead of detailing the Obama lies, let’s start a list of times Obama has told the truth.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Anyone want to go first?

122 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:08:41pm

re: #109 avanti

Hurt my feeling there sweetie, I’ll break bread with anyone that enjoys polite conversation.

I never said I would not break bread with someone that voted for Obama. I would never get a date in this city if that were the case. I said they would not get a seat at my dinner table, meaning I would never cook them a delicious meal with my hands.

(mom always said never piss off the person who cooks your food)

123 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:08:49pm

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk…]

124 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:08:53pm

re: #117 Nevergiveup

That depends on what the definition of “is” is.

125 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:09:08pm

re: #111 Charles

I don’t recall him actually saying outright that he was “never a Muslim,” by the way. The political maneuvering was more in the nature of obfuscation and rhetorical tap-dancing around the issue.

I think the possible reasons for the tap-dancing say a lot about the man.

Did he think Americans were that bigoted? If so, why would he want to lead them?

Did he think the Muslim world would regard him as an apostate? If so, why should he be so solicitous of their feelings, and why should so many of them have embraced him as if he were a brother?

126 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:09:11pm

re: #84 ggt

I thought Hitler was a “progressive” and therefore, “Left Wing”

I don’t think the reasoning matters to some people, as long as they can find a way to assert the latter.

Interesting fact though: While American women were working in factories welding tanks and riveting bombers, Hitler would allow have none of that in Germany.

Good aryan women stayed at home and took care of the family…..popping out plenty of pure aryan children

127 irongrampa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:09:36pm

yah, me too. Not going to ruin a good day.

Stay safe, good people.

128 Kragar  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:09:37pm

Military: Gitmo detainee dies of apparent suicide

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico – A Yemeni detainee at Guantanamo Bay has died of an apparent suicide, U.S. military officials said Tuesday. His is the fifth apparent suicide at the offshore U.S. prison, which President Barack Obama hopes to close by January. The Joint Task Force that runs the U.S. prison in Cuba said guards conducting a routine check found Muhammad Ahmad Abdallah Salih unresponsive and not breathing in his cell Monday night.

In a statement issued from Miami, the U.S. military said the detainee was pronounced dead by a doctor after “extensive lifesaving measures had been exhausted.”

129 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:09:46pm

it shows he is an opportunist.
that he is devious, untrustworthy, and cowardly.
now that he has achieved his goal, he will sling out the moslem connection.
and wear it more proudly than he ever wore and american flag lapel pin.
and of course this is why he is courting the moslem world, he wants to connect to his roots. at least his familial roots. he is wounded by the moslem father who dumped him.

i remember a video of the chatty fool on a talk show discussing early in the campaign, how he thought being barack HUSSEIN obama would be a catchy cool vote getting ‘handle’. what arrogance and stupidity. did he really think voters would be so enamored of him they would just forget the 9-11 connection to his name.
well, then soon, he obviously realized that the HUSSEIN was a heavy stone and he dropped it. and then it became racist to say his middle name during the campaign,
the guy stinks w/ his disingenuous b.s. manipulative actions.
he is definitely infatuated w/ islam. and he is showing it any where he can.

130 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:09:58pm

re: #123 kansas

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk…]

Quote:

“Let’s make clear what the facts are: I am a Christian. I have been sworn in with a Bible. I pledge allegiance [to the American flag] and lead the pledge of allegiance sometimes in the United States Senate when I’m presiding.”

No lies there. Just evasions.

131 Steffan  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:10:00pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

He certainly downplayed it. That was the smart political move to make. I don’t think he lied.

Geraghty over at National Review has said more than once that every Obama statement comes with an expiration date. Every one.

On average, he tells a flat-out lie in roughly every other public appearance. He figures he can get away with it because the MSM won’t call him on it, and who listens to Rush Limbaugh, anyway?

132 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:10:20pm

re: #109 avanti

Hurt my feeling there sweetie, I’ll break bread with anyone that enjoys polite conversation.

Politics is fine, but Studebakers? That’s asking too much!

// ;-P

133 Tarkus289  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:10:48pm

Romney on Hannity now, He sounds good to me, especially on defense and the economy.

134 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:11:14pm

re: #66 Charles

It should be noted that when Barack Obama was in Indonesia, they were about as close to being an example of moderate Islam as any country ever has been — before the Wahhabis gained so much influence.

Turkey?

135 tedzilla99  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:11:29pm

I think saying his father being “basically agnostic” sounds like a big whopper.

I am talking out of my hat here, but agnostic muslim doesn’t make sense to me.

136 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:11:30pm

re: #122 Afrocity

I never said I would not break bread with someone that voted for Obama. I would never get a date in this city if that were the case. I said they would not get a seat at my dinner table, meaning I would never cook them a delicious meal with my hands.

(mom always said never piss off the person who cooks your food)

Or your Waiter if it’s Jessie Jackson!

137 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:12:08pm

re: #121 Wendya
He did tell Joe the Plummer he wanted to spread the wealth around.

138 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:12:33pm

re: #130 Charles

No lies there. Just evasions.

The headline was Barack Obama: I’m no Muslim. I’m gonna have to look into the difference between a lie and an evasion. Day in an day out this guy is not making me more secure in knowing he is the leader of my country.

139 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:12:37pm

re: #76 irongrampa

I see nothing wrong in wishing for Obama to fail.

The country won’t collapse, it survived Carter—hell it survived the RESIGNATION of a sitting President with barely a hiccup.

I submit the country WILL fail, if this man succeeds in remaking it into his image of what it should be.

And i hope the consequences of his failure ensures the left wanders in the political wilderness for decades.

“Failure” is a very subjective idea. You could argue Reagan failed america by blatantly supporting racist South Africa and escalating the cold war with his rhetoric, oh and getting us under a mountain of debt.

140 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:12:46pm

re: #135 tedzilla99

I think saying his father being “basically agnostic” sounds like a big whopper.

I am talking out of my hat here, but agnostic muslim doesn’t make sense to me.

I dunno; I learned to drink from a Turk; nominal Muslim, and a great guy. Hardest drinker I ever met was a Pak (complete with Limey accent) who self-identified as Muslim. Everybody comes in a range of flavors and degrees.

141 brookly red  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:02pm

re: #121 Wendya

Instead of detailing the Obama lies, let’s start a list of times Obama has told the truth.
.
.
Anyone want to go first?

well he did promise to cut military spending…

142 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:24pm

Well, if nothing else … this thread is giving the muslims ads from google a work out …

143 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:24pm

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Military: Gitmo detainee dies of apparent suicide

I wonder if that is catching?

144 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:27pm

re: #134 avspatti

Turkey?

Turkey has never been close to the kind of moderate Islam that used to be in Indonesia before the Wahhabis came in and bought up mosques, bulldozed them, and built their own on the rubble. Turkey has always been a country sitting on the knife edge of radical Islam vs. military control.

145 srb1976  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:33pm

re: #122 Afrocity

I never said I would not break bread with someone that voted for Obama. I would never get a date in this city if that were the case. I said they would not get a seat at my dinner table, meaning I would never cook them a delicious meal with my hands.

(mom always said never piss off the person who cooks your food)

That’s good advice for anyone….along with “Never trust a skinny chef” = )

146 tedzilla99  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:34pm

re: #140 Guanxi88

I dunno; I learned to drink from a Turk; nominal Muslim, and a great guy. Hardest drinker I ever met was a Pak (complete with Limey accent) who self-identified as Muslim. Everybody comes in a range of flavors and degrees.

Thanks mate, I knew I’d get some help on that one.

147 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:38pm

re: #122 Afrocity

(mom always said never piss off the person who cooks your food)

Very smart woman.

148 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:49pm

Hot air comments on this same story….

I wonder if the First Wookie will be forced to wear a Burka during his pilgrimage.


…..

I wish she’d wear a burqa all the time. With just her toned arms sticking out.
She’s more James Brown than Jackie O.


…

ROTFLMAO… Charles Johnson over at little green footballs is watching his own head explode………. But dont worry Charles carefully informs us… this doesn’t mean he’s a “sekrit Muslim Manchurian candidate,”… Hey Charles… You are an idiot…
149 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:13:57pm

re: #139 ihateronpaul

“Failure” is a very subjective idea. You could argue Reagan failed america by blatantly supporting racist South Africa and escalating the cold war with his rhetoric, oh and getting us under a mountain of debt.

Or using the mountain of debt analogy that considering how deep Obama has dug us in, that Reagan actually suceeded although somewhat less than Obama.

150 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:14:09pm

re: #138 kansas

The headline was Barack Obama: I’m no Muslim. I’m gonna have to look into the difference between a lie and an evasion. Day in an day out this guy is not making me more secure in knowing he is the leader of my country.

The headline is not a quote from Obama. I’d advise against trusting British newspaper headlines, in general.

151 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:14:15pm

re: #139 ihateronpaul

“Failure” is a very subjective idea. You could argue Reagan failed america by blatantly supporting racist South Africa and escalating the cold war with his rhetoric, oh and getting us under a mountain of debt.

you could but I won’t…you just moved the goal posts again

152 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:14:56pm

re: #150 Charles

The headline is not a quote from Obama. I’d advise against trusting British newspaper headlines, in general.

Can we agree that Obama is a weasel then?

153 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:15:03pm

re: #111 Charles

I don’t recall him actually saying outright that he was “never a Muslim,” by the way.

I knew I had seen this somewhere…

“Barack has never been a Muslim or practiced any other faith besides Christianity,” states one fact sheet. “I’m not and never have been of the Muslim faith,” Obama told a Christian News reporter.

Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian

“If anyone is still puzzled about the facts, in fact I have never been a
Muslim,” he told the Jewish leaders in Cleveland, according to a transcript of the private session.

And here is a little Daniel Pipes essay on the subject:

“If I were a Muslim I would let you know,” Barack Obama has said, and I believe him. In fact, he is a practicing Christian, a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ. He is not now a Muslim.

But was he ever a Muslim or seen by others as a Muslim? …Summarized, available evidence suggests Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father. At some point, he converted to Christianity. It appears false to state, as Obama does, “I’ve always been a Christian” and “I’ve never practiced Islam.” The campaign appears to be either ignorant or fabricating when it states that “Obama never prayed in a mosque.”

154 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:15:11pm

re: #145 srb1976

That’s good advice for anyone….along with “Never trust a skinny chef” = )

And don’t spit in the soup, we all gotta eat it.

155 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:15:28pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout
Would a blog war or whatever it is called please you?

156 NelsFree  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:15:51pm

re: #12 Ming

The opposite of diversity is assimilation.

157 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:15:58pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Hot air comments on this same story….

Comments at Hot Air have become a reeking cesspool. It’s sad. They have to turn off commenting on controversial topics because they know what will happen.

158 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:16:12pm

The real question is this: Is Barry pushing this in order to gain “street cred” in the MidEast among the Arabs? Is this his way of saying “Trust me. Just trust me.”

Who knows? I’m reluctant to say anything definitively, but maybe he’s about to give them some bad news.

159 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:16:46pm

re: #158 Guanxi88

The real question is this: Is Barry pushing this in order to gain “street cred” in the MidEast among the Arabs? Is this his way of saying “Trust me. Just trust me.”

Who knows? I’m reluctant to say anything definitively, but maybe he’s about to give them some bad news.

The bad news is all gonna be for Israel

160 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:17:02pm

re: #158 Guanxi88

The real question is this: Is Barry pushing this in order to gain “street cred” in the MidEast among the Arabs? Is this his way of saying “Trust me. Just trust me.”

Who knows? I’m reluctant to say anything definitively, but maybe he’s about to give them some bad news.

I suspect its more likely that the bad news will be given to us.

161 iceman1960  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:17:12pm

I know who Obummer worships and it ain’t Allah or Jesus.

162 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:17:12pm

re: #133 Tarkus289

Romney on Hannity now, He sounds good to me, especially on defense and the economy.

Romney is a fool with childish homophobia. Not to mention he is against medical marijuana. Ugh.

163 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:17:20pm

re: #155 snowcrash

No. Just point out tasteless and racist conservatives. Way to keep it classy.

164 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:17:50pm

Rhetorical lap-dancing?

165 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:17:53pm

If it was not “sekrit” it was because some people saw through his bullshit, but unfortunately not in sufficient numbers.
President Obama has shown the ability from day one to consistently take in and fool the majority of the American public.
And even those who have not been fooled are mostly in denial.
Amazing.

166 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:18:14pm

re: #149 kansas

Or using the mountain of debt analogy that considering how deep Obama has dug us in, that Reagan actually suceeded although somewhat less than Obama.

He still supported South Africa. The Reaganites love to pretend that never happened. FUCKING SOUTH AFRICA

167 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:18:19pm

re: #158 Guanxi88

The real question is this: Is Barry pushing this in order to gain “street cred” in the MidEast among the Arabs? Is this his way of saying “Trust me. Just trust me.”

Who knows? I’m reluctant to say anything definitively, but maybe he’s about to give them some bad news.

Guanzi88 … sounds a little too much like … warming your hands by the devils fire to me … who wants to play games with them … this is no Chicago street fight … he is in the bigs now …

168 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:18:22pm

I’m already getting hate mail about this post.

169 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:18:42pm

re: #157 Charles

They have a real problem. Not sure how interested they are in cleaning the place up.

170 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:18:43pm

re: #159 Nevergiveup

The bad news is all gonna be for Israel

I think we can take that for granted, of course. But maybe, just maybe, he’s trying to suppress their exuberance a bit. I imagine their minds are running away with them on this one, and some folks have got all kindsa weird ideas about what he’ll do for the Arab world. Maybe he’s just trying to tamp them down a bit.

You never know with Obama. That’s what makes his mix of incompetence, ego, and deception so hard to penetrate.

171 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:19:22pm

re: #134 avspatti

Turkey?


Turkey is, supposedly, a secular state. The military would like to keep it that way but a majoriy of the population is becoming Islamist.
As I recall, Ataturk was an atheist.

172 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:19:26pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

They have a real problem. Not sure how interested they are in cleaning the place up.

Have they placed readership above integrity?

173 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:19:35pm

re: #158 Guanxi88

The real question is this: Is Barry pushing this in order to gain “street cred” in the MidEast among the Arabs? Is this his way of saying “Trust me. Just trust me.”

Who knows? I’m reluctant to say anything definitively, but maybe he’s about to give them some bad news.

he’s gonna strip the SA of the Pepsi concession unless they muscle oil prices higher

174 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:19:47pm

re: #167 JacksonTn

Guanzi88 … sounds a little too much like … warming your hands by the devils fire to me … who wants to play games with them … this is no Chicago street fight … he is in the bigs now …

The man is impressed by how clever he is and how slick he can be. Maybe he thinks he can pull it off. I doubt he can.

175 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:19:55pm

re: #168 Charles

I’m already getting hate mail about this post.

From whom?

The sekrit Muslim nerth certifikit crowd?

The HotAir administrators?

Muslims?

176 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:19:56pm

re: #168 Charles

I’m already getting hate mail about this post.


Obama has your E-Mail address?

177 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:20:02pm

re: #66 Charles

It should be noted that when Barack Obama was in Indonesia, they were about as close to being an example of moderate Islam as any country ever has been — before the Wahhabis gained so much influence.

Thanks for that Charles. It’s true he ignored his early years when he needed to, now it’s to his advantage to use a bit of it. If he goes to Indonesia, look for him to fondly recall his early years there, the same with Kansas.

178 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:20:25pm

re: #163 Killgore Trout
I guess that is just your style, stirring it up.

179 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:20:26pm

re: #161 iceman1960

I know who Obummer worships and it ain’t Allah or Jesus.

Could it be … SATAN!?

/dripping sarcasm

180 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:20:31pm

Hiya Lizards…I have to admit this movie is really really funny..
Harold & Kumar escape from Guantanamo bay..
I have been laughing like crazy

181 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:20:34pm

re: #135 tedzilla99

I think saying his father being “basically agnostic” sounds like a big whopper.

I am talking out of my hat here, but agnostic muslim doesn’t make sense to me.

I know agnostic Presbyterians. Some of them are clergy.

182 1SG(ret)  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:20:45pm

re: #70 Tamron

Where’s the gun tube…can’t be a damn tank without a gun tube. It’s like calling a BFV a tank. jeesh

183 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:20:49pm

re: #166 ihateronpaul

He still supported South Africa. The Reaganites love to pretend that never happened. FUCKING SOUTH AFRICA



You mean the place where the white farmers have been killed and have their land stolen, that South Africa? Or is that someplace else.

184 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:21:08pm

You’re getting hate mail because of this post? From what direction?

Because you’re not in the nirther tank? Because you’re preaching restraint and not overreaching on the facts and circumstances?

185 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:21:08pm

re: #122 Afrocity

I never said I would not break bread with someone that voted for Obama. I would never get a date in this city if that were the case. I said they would not get a seat at my dinner table, meaning I would never cook them a delicious meal with my hands.

(mom always said never piss off the person who cooks your food)

How about carry out ? :)

186 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:21:34pm

re: #184 lawhawk

You’re getting hate mail because of this post? From what direction?

Because you’re not in the nirther tank? Because you’re preaching restraint and not overreaching on the facts and circumstances?

From the White House I think?

187 Wendya  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:21:42pm

re: #23 Hawaii69

As to the comments on that story.

I love it when people try to frame Hitler as a “Socialist”, and therefore, “Left Wing”.

It’s the No True Scotsman argument.

Actually, if you look at his economic policies, he was very left wing and those policies were lauded by the left. Of course, the left had a love affair going with the worst dictators of the 20th century so it’s no surprise that the left is now claiming they were all right-wingers.

188 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:21:54pm

re: #168 Charles

I’m already getting hate mail about this post.

What the hell for?

People are really becoming unhinged.

189 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:22:00pm

re: #183 kansas

You mean the place where the white farmers have been killed and have their land stolen, that South Africa? Or is that someplace else.

Look, I’m no fan of the ANC, but all the poor folks in South Africa have gotten is a change in the names and part affiliations of the assholes ruining their country. ANC suck and are evil; so were the guys they replaced. No good guys there.

190 big steve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:22:10pm

Obama had a Muslim upbringing when he was a child….so what! I grew up in as the only non-catholic in a very catholic neighborhood. On Friday afternoons all the public school kids were carted off to the church on a bus for catechism classes, Little Big Steve included. My father pitched a bitch, being that not only were we Methodist but his father was a Methodist Bishop. So in second grade, I didn’t have to go, so while every other kid disappeared, I was left alone in class on Friday afternoons. It was totally cool because I just goofed although the reason I know that JFK was shot on a Friday is that the teacher ran in crying during the time I was alone in class.

I think that the religious upbringing of anyone under the age of 18 is irrelevant. It is what they chose to believe as an adult that counts.

191 calcajun  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:22:23pm

Sorry if it’s been said before, but it might be a very good thing if he were to openly acknowledge his Muslim background—or that he even practices to an extent.

If only Nixon could go to China, then only a Muslim—even an apostate—could defend Israel and our interests in that part of the world.

Just my two cents. bbl

192 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:22:36pm

re: #180 HoosierHoops

Hiya Lizards…I have to admit this movie is really really funny..
Harold & Kumar escape from Guantanamo bay..
I have been laughing like crazy

You are seeing this only just NOW?
Must be in the Best Buy 99 cent bin.

193 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:22:48pm

Last update - 03:37 03/06/2009

Obama to tell Israel: Form new Mideast policy by July

By Barak Ravid, Natasha Mozgovaya and Tomer Zarchin, Haaretz Correspondents

Tags: Israel News


United States President Barack Obama intends to give Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu four to six weeks to provide an “updated position” regarding construction in West Bank settlements and the two-state principle.

[Link: www.haaretz.com…]

And from the Arabs- well not so much.

194 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:22:53pm

re: #177 avanti

Thanks for that Charles. It’s true he ignored his early years when he needed to, now it’s to his advantage to use a bit of it. If he goes to Indonesia, look for him to fondly recall his early years there, the same with Kansas.

well of course, assuming he remembers he’s actually IN Kansas at the time….”I loved my early years here in…in…Oklahoma”

195 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:05pm

re: #189 Guanxi88

Look, I’m no fan of the ANC, but all the poor folks in South Africa have gotten is a change in the names and part affiliations of the assholes ruining their country. ANC suck and are evil; so were the guys they replaced. No good guys there.

This is out of my league, but isn’t this the country that is much worse off under Mugabe?

196 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:06pm

re: #182 1SG(ret)

Where’s the gun tube…can’t be a damn tank without a gun tube. It’s like calling a BFV a tank. jeesh

You want a gun?

Youtube Video
197 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:08pm

re: #190 big steve

I think that the religious upbringing of anyone under the age of 18 is irrelevant. It is what they chose to believe as an adult that counts.

I agree, it’s irrelevant.

Barack Obama apparently doesn’t, because he continually lied about his upbringing.

198 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:19pm
Haven’t you heard about the sunni prophecy? A “tall black man” commanding “the strongest army on earth” will take power “in the west.” He will carry “a clear sign” from the third imam, Hussein. Ali says of the tall black man: “Shiites should have no doubt that he is with us.”

Barack Hussein in Arabic means “the blessing of Hussein.” In Persian, Obama translates as “He [is] with us.” Thus does the name of the presumptive American president-elect, when combined with his physical attributes and geography, suggest that the End of Times is nigh – precisely what Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been predicting. Hold onto your tin foil hats, this could make for an interesting visit.

Posted by: km %P% Jun 2, 2009 8:32:27 PM

On only this one do I differ from Charles. This isn’t predictably wacky. This is barking insanity.

199 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:22pm

re: #183 kansas

You mean the place where the white farmers have been killed and have their land stolen, that South Africa? Or is that someplace else.

I mean the place that had apartheid. Reagan vetoed a bill in 1986 sanctioning them for their disgusting racist apartheid government. Why? Did he have racist sympathies?

200 Bloodnok  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:25pm

re: #184 lawhawk

You’re getting hate mail because of this post? From what direction?

Because you’re not in the nirther tank? Because you’re preaching restraint and not overreaching on the facts and circumstances?

My guess is the latter. Reactionaries hate restraint.

201 solomonpanting  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:27pm
“the President himself experienced Islam on three continents…”

Really. The entire US experienced Islam on 9-11-2001.

202 Tamron  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:37pm

re: #81 lawhawk

The media avoided asking questions before the election. Obama purposefully lied and obfuscated the truth to get elected by minimizing his Muslim heritage. The Administration is now suddenly inflating or proffering the fact that he’s got Muslim roots. Yeah, this stinks to high heaven, and the media failed the American people in a big way. This is going to give all those birthers and others who question Obama’s legitimacy as President more kindling for their theories.

Hey Lawhawk, set the clock back a few years and forget Obama for a second. Hypothetical question: If Big Arnold or someone similar, who was not born in the USA and thus technically not qualified, attempted to bluster his way through, develop a groundswell of popularity, and run for President anyway, WHOSE JOB IS IT TO TELL HIM ‘NO’? Where would the responsibilities lie, in a matter such as this? Which branch — legislative, executive, or judicial? (Probably legislative?) What’s the procedure? Who calls the shots? Whose job is it to enforce the Constitution up-front, in all matters pertaining to it?

In all the hoo-rah over the past year or so, I never really saw the answer to that question. The grand ol’ USA was in pretty good shape 100 years ago, when sticking to the Constitution was the thing to do.
.

203 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:39pm

re: #195 kansas

This is out of my league, but isn’t this the country that is much worse off under Mugabe?

You’re thinking Zimbabwe. South Africa was a different, but similar, kettle of fish.

204 tedzilla99  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:45pm

Obama is just like Hillary - two people with nothing but disdain for most Americans. He can go on TV and tell us how rotten things are and they will only get better if we listen to him and cut back on everything, and then he spends how many tens of thousands of tax dollars to have a weekend in NYC, Kobe steak Super Bowl parties, etc.

He uses a teleprompter for two reasons - one, because he’s completely inept on his feet; two, and this is most important, so that he can speak above everyone, not to them. Rush pegged this guy way back - he’s not cool, he’s cold. We are in serious, serious trouble in this country under this clown. Now, with a truly objective media we wouldn’t have to worry, because no way in hell could he get elected, but there they are and now here we are.

That’s also why the apologizing on here for Santomayor’s comments are incredibly troubling to me - we should know exactly who he is based on Rev. Wright, Ayers, Alisnky, etc. - and yet those who think she’s some kind of moderate judge should know better. He wants someone like himself on the court, since he can’t nominate himself.

205 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:47pm

12-3 Yanks putting a serious hurt on Texas.

206 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:23:47pm

re: #139 ihateronpaul

“Failure” is a very subjective idea. You could argue Reagan failed america by blatantly supporting racist South Africa and escalating the cold war with his rhetoric,

Yeah, it’s amazing how badly THAT turned out, isn’t it?

///

207 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:24:07pm

re: #185 avanti

How about carry out ? :)

As long as you pay. None of that I am a liberal feminist stuff. Men are only feminist when the dinner check arrives at the table.

208 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:24:23pm

re: #153 Last Mohican

He still isn’t saying he’s a Muslim. He’s saying they are in his family and he has lived in a Muslim majority country. It’s all about timing with him. An election was not the time to bring up his close ties. Political maneuvering, period.

In his April 6 address to the Turkish Parliament, President Obama referenced how many “Americans have Muslims in their families or have lived in a Muslim majority country. I know, because I am one of them.”

209 calcajun  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:24:25pm

re: #192 Afrocity

You are seeing this only just NOW?
Must be in the Best Buy 99 cent bin.

The Blockbuster “5 for $20” bin.

210 formercorpsman  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:24:36pm
Given widespread unease and prejudice against Muslims among Americans, especially in the wake of 9/11, the Obama campaign was perhaps understandably very sensitive during the primaries and general election to downplay the candidate’s Muslim roots.

You know, there could be that argument in some cases. But as is always the case now, the blame is shifted back onto the American public. Widespread unease and prejudice might be somewhat justified given the fact different factions of islam have been at war with us going to back to Qtub, let alone the mullah’s in Iran, and the likes of the PLO, Hamas, and others.

Who was passing out candy at the sight of people jumping to certain death on 911? Who was dancing in the streets?

You know, I understand Obama’s motive for keeping this on the down low. He is a politician, I expect that from him.

The media which is supposed to be free, and allowed journalistic integrity is another animal totally.

The one thing I have absolutely no tolerance ANYMORE, is the constant drum beat of how it is our fault for everything bad in the world. As if these countries were the g-d damned garden of eden before our sphere of colonial influence reached them.

Do they give credit to any of us who liberated Kuwait?
Do they give credit to any of us who liberated the Kurds?
Do they give credit to any of those who lost their lives in Anbar, in an effort to provide a better life for the future of Iraq’s children?

Bastards.

211 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:24:46pm

re: #195 kansas

This is out of my league, but isn’t this the country that is much worse off under Mugabe?

Mugabe’s Zimbabwe (once upon a time, Rhodesia). The ANC is South Africa.

212 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:25:09pm

re: #192 Afrocity

You are seeing this only just NOW?
Must be in the Best Buy 99 cent bin.

Yup…only seeing it tonight..
Hi Afrocity..Hope today finds you well…

213 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:25:20pm

re: #199 ihateronpaul

I mean the place that had apartheid. Reagan vetoed a bill in 1986 sanctioning them for their disgusting racist apartheid government. Why? Did he have racist sympathies?

I think it still has an apartheid government.

214 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:25:31pm

re: #144 Charles

Turkey has never been close to the kind of moderate Islam that used to be in Indonesia before the Wahhabis came in and bought up mosques, bulldozed them, and built their own on the rubble. Turkey has always been a country sitting on the knife edge of radical Islam vs. military control.

Now, I fear, radical Islam is gaining power there.

215 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:25:38pm

re: #76 irongrampa

I see nothing wrong in wishing for Obama to fail.

The country won’t collapse, it survived Carter—hell it survived the RESIGNATION of a sitting President with barely a hiccup.

I submit the country WILL fail, if this man succeeds in remaking it into his image of what it should be.

And i hope the consequences of his failure ensures the left wanders in the political wilderness for decades.

i agree completely.
i hope he fails. i see him flouncing recklessly toward socialism while engaged in an odd unbecoming dalliance w/ islam that could be quite dangerous.

216 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:26:05pm

re: #153 Last Mohican

Again, this is all spin — he’s saying he was never a believer in Islam, and it’s probably true. As far as it goes. And saying he has “Muslim roots” is also spin — it doesn’t mean he was a Muslim in reality — it means he “experienced Islam.”

This guy is the quintessential politician. Mercurial and impossible to pin down. The only outright statement of religious affiliation he’s made is that he’s a Christian — and that one he had to make in order to be elected in the United States.

217 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:26:12pm

re: #207 Afrocity

As long as you pay. None of that I am a liberal feminist stuff. Men are only feminist when the dinner check arrives at the table.

Some men. Some of us are still gentleman.

218 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:26:46pm

I rate Reagan as having failed on two points:

1) Iran-Contra, and
2) Lebanon.

Of course, against that, I balance him having pretty much saved the country, and, together with Maggie, the Western world.

Advantage: Reagan

219 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:26:58pm

re: #197 Last Mohican

I agree, it’s irrelevant.

Barack Obama apparently doesn’t, because he continually lied about his upbringing.

I don’t recall him denying anything about his upbringing. It was covered pretty well in his book. It was the exaggerations about him being a Muslim he denied.

220 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:27:00pm

re: #199 ihateronpaul

I mean the place that had apartheid. Reagan vetoed a bill in 1986 sanctioning them for their disgusting racist apartheid government. Why? Did he have racist sympathies?

That was a poor decision on his part. ANC were Soviet proxies, seeking to enslave the nation held under the thumb of the Afrikaaners for the banner of international socialism. As happened so frequently in those days, we sided with the guys shooting at the Reds. In this case, we didn’t want so strategically important a place (useful for observation of the MerFlot rounding Africa) falling to the Reds.

It was wrong, dead wrong.

221 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:27:11pm

re: #213 kansas

I think it still has an apartheid government.

So are you glad that reagan supported apartheid by vetoing the 1986 Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

222 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:27:12pm

re: #126 Hawaii69

I don’t think the reasoning matters to some people, as long as they can find a way to assert the latter.

Interesting fact though: While American women were working in factories welding tanks and riveting bombers, Hitler would allow have none of that in Germany.

Good aryan women stayed at home and took care of the family…..popping out plenty of pure aryan children

So, was Hitler “Left Wing” or “Right Wing”?

223 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:27:53pm

re: #216 Charles

Again, this is all spin — he’s saying he was never a believer in Islam, and it’s probably true. As far as it goes. And saying he has “Muslim roots” is also spin — it doesn’t mean he was a Muslim in reality — it means he “experienced Islam.”

This guy is the quintessential politician. Mercurial and impossible to pin down. The only outright statement of religious affiliation he’s made is that he’s a Christian — and that one he had to make in order to be elected in the United States.

I lived for 10 years in Iran, I wouldn’t say I have Muslim roots. I did experience Islam some good, some bad.

224 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:27:57pm

re: #216 Charles

Again, this is all spin — he’s saying he was never a believer in Islam, and it’s probably true. As far as it goes. And saying he has “Muslim roots” is also spin — it doesn’t mean he was a Muslim in reality — it means he “experienced Islam.”

This guy is the quintessential politician. Mercurial and impossible to pin down. The only outright statement of religious affiliation he’s made is that he’s a Christian — and that one he had to make in order to be elected in the United States.

No Christian I know would have attended that hate feast of Church in Chicago for 20 years.

225 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:28:29pm

re: #220 Guanxi88

That was a poor decision on his part. ANC were Soviet proxies, seeking to enslave the nation held under the thumb of the Afrikaaners for the banner of international socialism. As happened so frequently in those days, we sided with the guys shooting at the Reds. In this case, we didn’t want so strategically important a place (useful for observation of the MerFlot rounding Africa) falling to the Reds.

It was wrong, dead wrong.

Yeah, call me quaint but the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. We “sort of” f’d up by giving the taliban weapons to fight against the soviets.

226 iceman1960  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:28:32pm

re: #179 Charles

Could it be … SATAN!?

/dripping sarcasm

Nice Dana Carvey impression!

227 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:28:35pm

re: #202 Tamron

There was no way Arnold was going to be President unless the Constitution was amended. He was clearly not born in the US and state election officials and the national political parties would not have let him onto the ballots.

Each state manages their own elections, following state and federal law in conjunction with federal election commission.

228 NelsFree  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:28:36pm

re: #195 kansas
Mugabe runs Zimbabwe

229 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:28:38pm

re: #213 kansas

I think it still has an apartheid government.

South Africa? No. Zimbabwe? I’ll let someone who knows more about Africa than I do answer that.

230 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:28:52pm

re: #199 ihateronpaul

I mean the place that had apartheid. Reagan vetoed a bill in 1986 sanctioning them for their disgusting racist apartheid government. Why? Did he have racist sympathies?

Oh, piss off, you deliberately obtuse moron.

Do the words “Cold War” ring a bell?

231 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:28:54pm

re: #228 NelsFree

Mugabe runs Zimbabwe

into the ground……

232 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:29:12pm

re: #190 big steve

Obama had a Muslim upbringing when he was a child….so what! I grew up in as the only non-catholic in a very catholic neighborhood. On Friday afternoons all the public school kids were carted off to the church on a bus for catechism classes, Little Big Steve included. My father pitched a bitch, being that not only were we Methodist but his father was a Methodist Bishop. So in second grade, I didn’t have to go, so while every other kid disappeared, I was left alone in class on Friday afternoons. It was totally cool because I just goofed although the reason I know that JFK was shot on a Friday is that the teacher ran in crying during the time I was alone in class.

I think that the religious upbringing of anyone under the age of 18 is irrelevant. It is what they chose to believe as an adult that counts.

bigsteve … that may be true about what people believe as they get older … but there is a reason that religions get to children as well … children … when you are young some things stay with you whether you realize it or not …

233 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:29:28pm

re: #216 Charles

Again, this is all spin — he’s saying he was never a believer in Islam, and it’s probably true. As far as it goes. And saying he has “Muslim roots” is also spin — it doesn’t mean he was a Muslim in reality — it means he “experienced Islam.”

This guy is the quintessential politician. Mercurial and impossible to pin down. The only outright statement of religious affiliation he’s made is that he’s a Christian — and that one he had to make in order to be elected in the United States.

He’d say he believes in human sacrifice if he thought that’s what it took to get him elected.

234 1SG(ret)  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:29:36pm

re: #196 jcm

You got one for sale…I’m buying!

235 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:29:37pm

Obama is not a muslim.
Obama is a muslim.
Obama is
TWO!
TWO!
Two presidents in one!
Not a muslim; so he is safe for America!
Is a muslim; so he can make America safe!

/The only president whose resume sounds like an old “Certs” commercial.

Hooray! We have a breath-mint Commander in Chief.

236 big steve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:29:43pm

re: #216 Charles

Again, this is all spin — he’s saying he was never a believer in Islam, and it’s probably true. As far as it goes. And saying he has “Muslim roots” is also spin — it doesn’t mean he was a Muslim in reality — it means he “experienced Islam.”

This guy is the quintessential politician. Mercurial and impossible to pin down. The only outright statement of religious affiliation he’s made is that he’s a Christian — and that one he had to make in order to be elected in the United States.

I think Charles makes an important point here, do not underestimate how long Obama has been planning to run for President. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this other than when you look at his narrative, just remember this. Obama’s conversion to Christianity was extremely pragmatic.

237 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:29:55pm

re: #230 Occasional Reader

Oh, piss off, you deliberately obtuse moron.

Do the words “Cold War” ring a bell?

Yes, I am completely obtuse because Reagan didn’t veto that bill. Oh wait, he did.

238 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:29:55pm

re: #221 ihateronpaul

So are you glad that reagan supported apartheid by vetoing the 1986 Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Looks like Reagan’s veto was over ridden by Congress, so it’s a moot point what he supported.

239 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:30:09pm

re: #225 ihateronpaul

Yeah, call me quaint but the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. We “sort of” f’d up by giving the taliban weapons to fight against the soviets.

We didn’t arm the Taliban; that was Pakistan. The Taliban weren’t fighting the Soviets - they were fighting the warlords who tore the place apart once the Red Army left.

In that case, though, I have no real problem with us assisting the Afghans in trying to boot the Russians out.

240 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:30:19pm

re: #218 Occasional Reader

I rate Reagan as having failed on two points:

1) Iran-Contra, and
2) Lebanon.

Of course, against that, I balance him having pretty much saved the country, and, together with Maggie, the Western world.

Advantage: Reagan


He achieved greatness simply by busting PATCO.

241 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:30:23pm

Not to knock Jake Tapper, but the LA Times had this story about 18 hours ago

When President Obama takes the podium in Cairo this week for his much-anticipated speech to the Muslim world, he’ll stand before them as an American leader born of an African Muslim father and raised partly in Indonesia, as well as a politician who cut his political teeth in an Illinois political culture that has a sizable Muslim population.
…
“The fact is that the president himself experienced Islam on three continents before he’s been able to visit, really, the heart of the Islamic world,” said Denis McDonough, Obama’s deputy national security advisor for strategic communications. The president sees a fundamental need, McDonough said, to change “how we engage our allies.”

So when Obama arrives in the region Wednesday, advisors say, he won’t be carrying detailed policy proposals, but rather an appeal focusing on common experience and mutual respect.

242 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:30:35pm

re: #234 1SG(ret)

You got one for sale…I’m buying!

LOL!

Folks only cut me off once……….

243 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:30:59pm

I’m less concerned with 0bama’s religious issues, and more concerned with his Constitutional understanding.

244 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:05pm

re: #130 Charles

No lies there. Just evasions.

I’m very confused about this. We knew his Muslim roots. We knew about his father and family in Kenya. We knew about Indonesia. Why is this news? We knew about his grandparents, his single mother.

So you ask why did he avoid it? Because it was being used against him relentlessly. So much so, people still believe he’s a Muslim! There’s plenty of people who didn’t need this story to cement their views.

At any rate, I don’t know what difference it makes. I could care less what he is. The whole thing with Romney, too, was insane. We are a very diverse society. We should be happy all kinds of people are part of our government. Bush had an extremely diverse government, in fact.

The only thing about Obama that maybe, MAYBE, his Muslim heritage may sway things and that’s his relationship to Israel. However, we certainly don’t need a “once-upon-a-time Muslim” to screw that up. Or maybe you think Clinton was a Muslim too? Anyway, I’m still watching that one very closely. So far, I’m none too pleased, but we’ll see.

245 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:07pm

re: #228 NelsFree

Gonna brush up on African geopolitics.

246 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:10pm

re: #237 ihateronpaul

Yes, I am completely obtuse because Reagan didn’t veto that bill. Oh wait, he did.

you are hardly generating the kind of interest you want cherry picking history…we get the point

247 iceman1960  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:17pm

re: #235 swamprat

Obama is not a muslim.
Obama is a muslim.
Obama is
TWO!
TWO!
Two presidents in one!
Not a muslim; so he is safe for America!
Is a muslim; so he can make America safe!

/The only president whose resume sounds like an old “Certs” commercial.

Hooray! We have a breath-mint Commander in Chief.

Or a candy bar commercial
“sometimes you feel like a muslim… sometimes you don’t”

248 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:25pm

re: #225 ihateronpaul

Yeah, call me quaint but the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. We “sort of” f’d up by giving the taliban weapons to fight against the soviets.

Um, the “Taliban” did not exist at the time, actually.

Keep it up though… you’re doing great.

249 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:28pm

re: #243 Sharmuta

I’m less concerned with 0bama’s religious issues, and more concerned with his Constitutional understanding.

Shar … is that how you felt during the campaign? …

250 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:33pm

re: #243 Sharmuta

I’m less concerned with 0bama’s religious issues, and more concerned with his Constitutional understanding.

I think it’s safe to say he has as little genuine religious commitment as he does respect for the Constitution.

251 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:34pm

I don’t think that Obama is impossible to pin down. Getting something to stick is the problem.

252 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:37pm

re: #243 Sharmuta

I’m less concerned with 0bama’s religious issues, and more concerned with his Constitutional understanding.

and more concerned with his Constitutional mis-understanding.

FIFY!

;-)

253 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:51pm

Obama flies into the Magic Kingdom tomorrow.
Will they let him visit Mecca?

254 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:31:58pm

re: #190 big steve

Obama had a Muslim upbringing when he was a child….so what! I grew up in as the only non-catholic in a very catholic neighborhood. On Friday afternoons all the public school kids were carted off to the church on a bus for catechism classes, Little Big Steve included. My father pitched a bitch, being that not only were we Methodist but his father was a Methodist Bishop. So in second grade, I didn’t have to go, so while every other kid disappeared, I was left alone in class on Friday afternoons. It was totally cool because I just goofed although the reason I know that JFK was shot on a Friday is that the teacher ran in crying during the time I was alone in class.

I think that the religious upbringing of anyone under the age of 18 is irrelevant. It is what they chose to believe as an adult that counts.

i disagree, people are imprinted deeply w/ that early childhood indoctrination.
as they grow older, they often go back to it. not always but i think w/ o and his issue w/ the absent moslem father who dumped him, there could definitely be many unresolved issues there.

255 big steve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:32:18pm

re: #232 JacksonTn

bigsteve … that may be true about what people believe as they get older … but there is a reason that religions get to children as well … children … when you are young some things stay with you whether you realize it or not …

For sure…..that is Dawkins whole argument…..religion is sanctioned brainwashing. However as an adult you do have the right, and maybe the responsibility, to critically examine your faith and determine what you truly believe.

256 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:32:20pm

re: #239 Guanxi88

We didn’t arm the Taliban; that was Pakistan. The Taliban weren’t fighting the Soviets - they were fighting the warlords who tore the place apart once the Red Army left.

In that case, though, I have no real problem with us assisting the Afghans in trying to boot the Russians out.

Well we did kinda fuck that thing up by absolutely ignoring Afghanistan while the Taliban turned it into a Terrorist Disneyland.

257 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:32:37pm

re: #249 JacksonTn

Shar … is that how you felt during the campaign? …

Yes.

258 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:10pm

re: #207 Afrocity

As long as you pay. None of that I am a liberal feminist stuff. Men are only feminist when the dinner check arrives at the table.

I always pay, men my age do. (or the casino does) I have a conservative friend that I spread the casino’s wealth with, but from what I hear, your cooking is worth switching parties for.:)

259 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:16pm

re: #255 big steve

For sure…..that is Dawkins whole argument…..religion is sanctioned brainwashing. However as an adult you do have the right, and maybe the responsibility, to critically examine your faith and determine what you truly believe.

bigsteve … call it what you want … we are not on the same side of that issue … I do not engage on that subject …

260 jaunte  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:28pm

On South Africa and Reagan’s veto:
Zulu Chief Gatsha Buthelezi was opposed to disinvestment, and called it “tactical madness.”

261 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:33pm

re: #237 ihateronpaul

Yes, I am completely obtuse because Reagan didn’t veto that bill. Oh wait, he did.

And, once again, you miss the point.

But I guess you’re still too broken up about the collapse of the USSR to think coherently. Yeah, it’s too bad that Reagan’s terrible rhetoric helped bring that wonderfully humanitarian system down.

262 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:46pm

re: #254 nyc redneck

i disagree, people are imprinted deeply w/ that early childhood indoctrination.
as they grow older, they often go back to it. not always but i think w/ o and his issue w/ the absent moslem father who dumped him, there could definitely be many unresolved issues there.

He was more deeply impressed by his mother’s politics and his father’s than their religion.

263 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:48pm

re: #256 Nevergiveup

Well we did kinda fuck that thing up by absolutely ignoring Afghanistan while the Taliban turned it into a Terrorist Disneyland.

Yep, that was one of those Clinton triangulation deals. Besides, realistically, who could’ve given a damn about Afghanistan at the time? Bubba lobbed some cruise missiles at some tents, and went back to satisfying his boundless lust for women and money. It was the 90’s.

264 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:51pm

re: #228 NelsFree

Mugabe runs Zimbabwe

into the ground, many times over.

265 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:33:51pm

We found us a Ronald Reagan hater. Wow!

266 NelsFree  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:34:05pm

re: #216 Charles

Again, this is all spin — he’s saying he was never a believer in Islam, and it’s probably true. As far as it goes. And saying he has “Muslim roots” is also spin — it doesn’t mean he was a Muslim in reality — it means he “experienced Islam.”


A person born of a Muslim man is considered Muslim. Many muslims have said Obama is a Muslim. Gazans operated a phone bank calling the USA to ask for support for Obama.

267 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:34:05pm

re: #238 kansas

Looks like Reagan’s veto was over ridden by Congress, so it’s a moot point what he supported.

It isn’t a moot point at all, if a democrat had done the same thing the republicans would have harped on it constantly.

And to my other comment, call them the taliban, call them freedom fighters, the weapons still got distributed to people in the middle east that probably shouldn’t have them.

268 brookly red  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:34:23pm

re: #243 Sharmuta

I’m less concerned with 0bama’s religious issues, and more concerned with his Constitutional understanding.

IMO he understands it well, but he just sees it as an obstacle.

269 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:34:31pm

re: #253 Jim in Virginia

Obama flies into the Magic Kingdom tomorrow.
Will they let him visit Mecca?

Oooh… now that’s an interesting question.

Well, hypothetical, anyway… I’m sure the Obama staff are too savvy to even solicit the invitation.

270 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:34:37pm

re: #245 kansas

Gonna brush up on African geopolitics.

They kill each other.
Hope that saves some time.
Nigeria has uranium.

271 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:34:41pm

re: #265 unrealizedviewpoint

We found us a Ronald Reagan hater. Wow!

Better not click my avatar……

272 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:35:09pm

I guess I am “crazy” for being anti-apartheid.

Sigh, I’m going to bed now.

273 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:35:18pm

re: #219 avanti

I don’t recall him denying anything about his upbringing. It was covered pretty well in his book. It was the exaggerations about him being a Muslim he denied.

See my #153. “I have never been a Muslim,” over and over again. And it wasn’t true.

Again, I don’t personally care what his faith was when he was a child. Perhaps, as Charles suggests, he in retrospect believes that he, as a child, never truly believed the things that Muslims believe. So he was never “truly” a Muslim, even though he identified himself as such at the time, attended Muslim religious classes, prayed in a Mosque, etc. But to me, that’s a level of Clintonian semantic obfuscation that stretches well into the category of lying.

Again, I don’t care what he did when he was a kid. I actually think the fact that he was raised a Muslim for a while might make him a better president. The point is, it’s uncool to go out of your way to tell a lie about your past. And it’s doubly uncool that now, having been elected, he’s trying to make points with Muslims by citing his Muslim roots, after having insulted Muslims everywhere by falsely denying his Muslim past during his campaign.

274 solomonpanting  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:35:21pm

re: #233 Spare O’Lake

He’d say he believes in human sacrifice if he thought that’s what it took to get him elected.

We still have no idea what the future will bring in Iran, Israel, or other hot spots. So, although he’s been elected, the jury’s still out the first part of your statement.

semi-/

275 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:35:32pm

re: #270 swamprat

They kill each other.
Hope that saves some time.
Nigeria has uranium.

It’s Europe’s fault, the colonies you see.

276 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:35:32pm

re: #253 Jim in Virginia

Obama flies into the Magic Kingdom tomorrow.
Will they let him visit Mecca?

If you seriously asking, the answer is no.

277 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:35:44pm

re: #267 ihateronpaul

It isn’t a moot point at all, if a democrat had done the same thing the republicans would have harped on it constantly.

And to my other comment, call them the taliban, call them freedom fighters, the weapons still got distributed to people in the middle east that probably shouldn’t have them.

The warlords killing the Reds were not the bad guys. They weren’t good guys, but they weren’t bad guys. Stopping the spread of Soviet power and influence into the region was an intelligent and worthwhile goal. If it could be accomplished at the cheap price of some weapons and training, so much the better.

278 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:35:55pm

re: #258 avanti

I always pay, men my age do. (or the casino does) I have a conservative friend that I spread the casino’s wealth with, but from what I hear, your cooking is worth switching parties for.:)

I make a pretty mean RINO stew. Yes Avanti do stop by for dinner the next time you’re in Chicago.

279 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:24pm

re: #253 Jim in Virginia

Obama flies into the Magic Kingdom tomorrow.
Will they let him visit Mecca?

Only if he knows the magic words. If you’re a Pee-Wee’s Playhouse fan, you know what they are.

280 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:31pm

re: #273 Last Mohican

Before we all say things we’re not sure of, when did he say “I was never a Muslim?” If he said it, I don’t recall it.

281 Kronocide  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:34pm

If we all know he’s sekrit Machination Candardate, then it’s not sekrit. Huh.

282 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:37pm

Obama is a practicing Politician, first and foremost. Any other professions are just to benefit the first.

283 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:40pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Probably the same thing that it means to anyone else who has traveled in the Islamic world. I know it might shock some people here but I find the morning call to prayer a very moving experience. I wouldn’t want to hear it every day but I have some very fond memories. I wish I could travel more in the Islam world but it’s just not very safe.

As another who has lived and traveled in the Islamic world (on 3 continents) I agree.

284 Tarkus289  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:44pm

The Northern Alliance were the good guys, before and after 9/11.

…. for the most part.

285 Jimmah  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:52pm

Obama on religion, the importance of secularism:

Youtube Video
286 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:55pm

re: #193 Nevergiveup

Last update - 03:37 03/06/2009

Obama to tell Israel: Form new Mideast policy by July

By Barak Ravid, Natasha Mozgovaya and Tomer Zarchin, Haaretz Correspondents

Tags: Israel News

United States President Barack Obama intends to give Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu four to six weeks to provide an “updated position” regarding construction in West Bank settlements and the two-state principle.

[Link: www.haaretz.com…]

And from the Arabs- well not so much.

What arrogance! He intends to give Netanyahu 4-6 weeks? He is not emperor of the universe, contrary to how he acts at times.

287 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:36:56pm

re: #267 ihateronpaul

It isn’t a moot point at all, if a democrat had done the same thing the republicans would have harped on it constantly.

And to my other comment, call them the taliban, call them freedom fighters, the weapons still got distributed to people in the middle east that probably shouldn’t have them.

You’re devoid of historical context, I’m afraid.

The US did not - repeat, not - arm the Taliban. By the time the Taliban showed up, we’d declared victory and gone home. That’s why a lot of Afghan civilians don’t trust us now.

Guess what? That’s not a bad strategy on their part, either.

288 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:00pm

re: #267 ihateronpaul

It isn’t a moot point at all, if a democrat had done the same thing the republicans would have harped on it constantly.

And to my other comment, call them the taliban, call them freedom fighters, the weapons still got distributed to people in the middle east that probably shouldn’t have them.

Afghanistan was the graveyard of the Soviet Union…..

That was a bad thing?

289 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:01pm

Wow. Four hate mails already over this post. Apparently I’m supposed to be screaming, “I wuz WRONG! ! ! He really iz a sekrit Mozlem! Please forgive me! ! ! !”

290 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:02pm

re: #236 big steve

Obama’s conversion to Christianity was extremely pragmatic.


Obama was not practicing any religion while at colleg e or law school. You could point to any number of politicians (or businessmen, for that matter) who join churches because it is expedient.
Not that there aren’t polticians who are sincere in their religious beliefs.

291 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:18pm

re: #272 ihateronpaul

I guess I am “crazy” for being anti-apartheid.

Sigh, I’m going to bed now.

It’s like this - Apartheid is over and gone. Long gone. Vicious anarchy has taken over the land, held under the bungling and corrupt rule of an openly Marxist party. Both are bad for the people there, but at least your pet enemy is gone.

You feel better, now?

292 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:20pm

re: #282 FurryOldGuyJeans

A “practicing politician”. I like it.

293 Kronocide  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:25pm

While I don’t like the two faced-ness of this, the mad mullahs gotta be freaking out about this, no?

294 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:30pm

re: #272 ihateronpaul

I guess I am “crazy” for being anti-apartheid.

Sigh, I’m going to bed now.

I guess all these years later, after all of Reagan’s accomplishments…and he’s being ragged on about one single issue is a bit much.

295 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:32pm

re: #232 JacksonTn

bigsteve … that may be true about what people believe as they get older … but there is a reason that religions get to children as well … children … when you are young some things stay with you whether you realize it or not …

It’s the Mel Gibson senerio. Radical education during youth comes out in the most unopertune ways.

296 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:32pm

re: #267 ihateronpaul

It isn’t a moot point at all, if a democrat had done the same thing the republicans would have harped on it constantly.

And to my other comment, call them the taliban, call them freedom fighters, the weapons still got distributed to people in the middle east that probably shouldn’t have them.

The Democrats harp on Republicans pretty much non stop? I’m not getting your point.

297 captdiggs  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:47pm

Anyone who took a little time to take a look without the Obamazombie glasses on knew all this.
If anything, I’m just personally disgusted that so many voted in a euphoric haze of ignorance.

298 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:37:52pm

re: #280 American Sabra

Before we all say things we’re not sure of, when did he say “I was never a Muslim?” If he said it, I don’t recall it.

He said it many times. See my #153 above.

299 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:38:22pm

re: #282 FurryOldGuyJeans

Obama is a practicing Politician, first and foremost. Any other professions are just to benefit the first.

Like community organizer.

(7 murders in 24 hours. Nope, no problem here.)

300 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:38:27pm

re: #289 Charles

Wow. Four hate mails already over this post. Apparently I’m supposed to be screaming, “I wuz WRONG! ! ! He really iz a sekrit Mozlem! Please forgive me! ! ! !”

try the Werewolf angle and see if they lighten up

301 NelsFree  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:38:37pm

re: #264 nyc redneck

re: #231 jcm

I guess I’m your “despotic tyrant rant” straight man tonight. Enjoy the karma!

302 big steve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:00pm

re: #280 American Sabra

Before we all say things we’re not sure of, when did he say “I was never a Muslim?” If he said it, I don’t recall it.

How about his own campaign website……Obama Fact Check

303 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:08pm

re: #135 tedzilla99

You’re right in one sense, being an agnostic Muslim is contradictory. His father was agnostic, possibly an atheist, because he rejected his Islamic upbringing as a teenager when he left Kenya and went to college in Hawaii. It was then that he declared all religion superstitious. Of course, this is a moot point, since his natural father never raised him. His adoptive father, Lolo, helped raise him for a short while when they all lived in Indonesia. The “Islam” that he practiced was a syncretistic mix of Islam and the local native religions. Lolo’s influence lasted all of four years, when his mother took Barack to Hawaii and divorced Lolo. And even during the time they were in Indonesia, his schooling was a combination of the Indonesian state school, which did require teaching in Islam, and Catholic schooling, where the Christian Bible was taught. As far as Barack Obama’s religious upbringing, it was mostly secular within an environment of religious belief. While religion may have been all around him, he was never a real part of it. He was an outsider every time. Therefore to try and attach the “madrassa” label to him just doesn’t work.

304 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:09pm

re: #288 jcm

Afghanistan was the graveyard of the Soviet Union…..

That was a bad thing?

Apparently. Damn Reagan, and his awful rhetoric!

Soviet communism only killed 30 million or so… why couldn’t he just give them another chance?!

/

305 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:23pm

How about “devout politician”?

306 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:29pm

re: #275 jcm

It’s Europe’s fault, the colonies you see.

The Belch oppressed the Congo, so the Congo became…..
…..
…..
…..
just like their neighbors who were never oppressed by the Belch

307 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:29pm

re: #292 Sharmuta

A “practicing politician”. I like it.

Politics is the man’s religion.

308 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:34pm

re: #300 albusteve

try the Werewolf angle and see if they lighten up

Therewolf!

309 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:37pm

re: #291 Guanxi88

It’s like this - Apartheid is over and gone. Long gone. Vicious anarchy has taken over the land, held under the bungling and corrupt rule of an openly Marxist party. Both are bad for the people there, but at least your pet enemy is gone.

You feel better, now?

(With Apartheid gone, maybe you should pick a new cause? May I suggest you take up the Montenegrin cause? Seems their king got screwed by the Serbo-Croatians during WWI, and they lost their independence; damned league of nations did nothing.)

310 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:39:38pm

re: #172 Sharmuta

Have they placed readership above integrity?

Probably. The racist comment referring to Michelle as “The First Wookie” has been up for an hour or two. No condemnation, no deletion.

311 NelsFree  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:03pm

re: #253 Jim in Virginia

Obama flies into the Magic Kingdom tomorrow.
Will they let him visit Mecca?

The Prophet Mohammed declared Mecca and Yathrib (now Medina) closed to non-muslims, under penalty of death. It is still enforced to this day.

312 Gella  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:03pm

re: #299 Afrocity

Like community organizer.

(7 murders in 24 hours. Nope, no problem here.)

he would say it wasn’t part of his community, Chicago is a big city after all

313 Zimriel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:08pm

re: #54 Sharmuta

Yes- be sure to sneak some anti-Semitism in there too. Gross.

If it makes you feel better, it’s equal opportunity anti-Semitism. They’re cool with Arabs glowing in the dark too.

/weeps for the future

314 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:09pm

re: #289 Charles

Wow. Four hate mails already over this post. Apparently I’m supposed to be screaming, “I wuz WRONG! ! ! He really iz a sekrit Mozlem! Please forgive me! ! ! !”

I am privy to secret plans to turn the Capitol Building into a mosque and realign the White House so it faces Mecca!

I have Pruth!

315 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:10pm

re: #272 ihateronpaul

I guess I am “crazy” for being anti-apartheid.

Sigh, I’m going to bed now.

Oh, yeah, we’ve all been supporting apartheid on this thread, haven’t we. Everyone but you.


Mendacious, self-righteous twerp.

316 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:22pm

re: #255 big steve

For sure…..that is Dawkins whole argument…..religion is sanctioned brainwashing. However as an adult you do have the right, and maybe the responsibility, to critically examine your faith and determine what you truly believe.

Very few adults reach a level of maturity or mental ability to do so. IMHO.

317 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:37pm

re: #48 Irenicum

There’s nothing in that ABC report that wasn’t known before the election. What’s the news?

Irenicum … well, for one that it is okay to talk about it now … when before you were labeled a racist …

318 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:40:52pm

re: #298 Last Mohican

He said it many times. See my #153 above.

You’re falling into the trap if you say “I was never a Muslim” contradicts “Obama’s Muslim roots.”

“Muslim roots” just means he “experienced Islam.” It doesn’t mean he was a Muslim.

Politics. Gotta love it. Or not.

319 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:41:15pm

re: #286 avspatti

He is not emperor of the universe, contrary to how he acts at times.

Maybe you could have Teleprompter inform him of that.

320 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:41:36pm

re: #262 jcm

He was more deeply impressed by his mother’s politics and his father’s than their religion.

I get the idea that politics was their religion.

321 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:41:39pm

re: #299 Afrocity

Like community organizer.

(7 murders in 24 hours. Nope, no problem here.)

But the murders were very well-organized, you have to admit.

/

322 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:04pm

re: #319 kansas

Maybe you could have Teleprompter inform him of that.

The Teleprompter is smart enough to how to avoid going under the bus.

323 NelsFree  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:06pm

re: #303 Irenicum

syncretistic: Of or pertaining to reconciliation or fusion of differing systems of belief, as in philosophy or religion, especially when success is partial or the result is heterogeneous

Word!

324 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:18pm

re: #247 iceman1960


That deserves beaucoup updings..

325 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:18pm

re: #304 Occasional Reader

Apparently. Damn Reagan, and his awful rhetoric!

Soviet communism only killed 30 million or so… why couldn’t he just give them another chance?!

/

Black Book indicates many, many more.

326 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:21pm

re: #262 jcm

He was more deeply impressed by his mother’s politics and his father’s than their religion.

i think he is intrigued by anything abt. his absent father.
he entitled his book “dreams from my father”

327 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:33pm

re: #322 jcm

The Teleprompter is smart enough to how to avoid going under the bus.

jcm … ROLFLMAO …

328 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:35pm

re: #314 jcm

I am privy to secret plans to turn the Capitol Building into a mosque and realign the White House so it faces Mecca!

I have Pruth!

The eastern side of the White House ALREADY FACES MECCA.

COINCIDENCE?!

329 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:42:52pm

re: #216 Charles

He experienced Islam?

That’s quite the ambiguous statement, don’t you think? (And quite the understatement).

Just how exactly did he experience it? Like how Jews and Christians in Israel experience Islam, living shoulder to shoulder with Muslims, some of whom wouldn’t mind murdering them if the situation presented itself? He wasn’t exactly forthcoming about his trip to Pakistan and minimized his Muslim heritage from his time in Indonesia.

I lived in Jerusalem for six weeks many years back, and I recall walking through the Arab Quarter at 2am. Hey, I was young and didn’t think anything of it as I was with a group of guys, but now? I wouldn’t encourage anyone to do that now. Is that how he experienced Islam?

Hearing the call to prayer five times a day from the al Aqsa mosque and seeing how each part of the city would close depending on what day of the week it was - Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, and how there was an unease but comfort level from the relationships between the three major religions at the spiritual epicenter of the conflict for the hearts and minds of the world.

I was in NYC on 9/11. I smelled the smells. I saw the handiwork of the Islamists who purposefully slammed jet planes into skyscrapers so as to kill 50,000 - that they killed just about 3,000 people is a miracle, but still more than we could bear.

I studied Islam and the Middle East in grad school. I experienced it first hand. I read voraciously.

So, when he says that he experienced Islam, I’m curious to know exactly what he means by experienced, although I doubt he is going to be so forthcoming - or honest - since he has never been forced to be honest about this aspect of his life before to the public.

330 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:43:24pm

re: #315 Occasional Reader

Oh, yeah, we’ve all been supporting apartheid on this thread, haven’t we. Everyone but you.

Mendacious, self-righteous twerp.

Is THAT what he was up to?

331 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:43:52pm

re: #278 Afrocity

I make a pretty mean RINO stew. Yes Avanti do stop by for dinner the next time you’re in Chicago.

I’ll see if I can get the “One” to join me, it would make for interesting dinner conversation.
( makes me giggle just at the thought)

332 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:44:16pm

re: #318 Charles

You’re falling into the trap if you equate “I was never a Muslim” with “Obama’s Muslim roots.”

“Muslim roots” just means he “experienced Islam.” It doesn’t mean he was a Muslim.

Politics. Gotta love it. Or not.

True. He’s not lying now. And everything he’s saying now is consistent with both the truth, and with the Muslim-insulting lie that he told during his campaign.

333 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:44:24pm

re: #140 Guanxi88

My father was close friends with a Turkish coworker. He asked her what it meant to be Muslim? She told him it meant not eating pork. He reminded her that they were having lunch at a Chinese restaurant and were eating pork fried rice, and she smiled and said “yeah, and it’s really good!” I grew up in a Catholic neighborhood in NYC and you could take the exact same scene and just change the religion and everything else would stay the same.

334 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:44:29pm

re: #329 lawhawk

He experienced Islam?

That’s quite the ambiguous statement, don’t you think? (And quite the understatement).

And that’s exactly my point. It’s deliberately, cleverly ambiguous.

335 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:44:38pm

re: #223 jcm

I lived for 10 years in Iran, I wouldn’t say I have Muslim roots. I did experience Islam some good, some bad.

60s and 70s? I was in and out a few times back then.

336 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:44:44pm

re: #321 Occasional Reader

But the murders were very well-organized, you have to admit.

/


I am very upset about this weekend. Obama was in NYC lving it up when this happened. Liberals have run Chicago into the ground.

337 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:44:48pm

re: #318 Charles

Um…Not?

338 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:45:01pm

We sure could Ronald Reagan right about now.

339 big steve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:45:10pm

re: #318 Charles

You’re falling into the trap if you equate “I was never a Muslim” with “Obama’s Muslim roots.”

“Muslim roots” just means he “experienced Islam.” It doesn’t mean he was a Muslim.

hummmm…..I had a Jewish roommate in college…..does that mean I can claim I have a Judaism roots?

340 Truck Monkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:45:24pm

re: #307 FurryOldGuyJeans

PoliticsObama is the man’s religion.

341 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:45:43pm
342 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:46:09pm

re: #338 unrealizedviewpoint

We sure could use Ronald Reagan right about now.

off to bed, can’t even make a sentence.

343 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:46:12pm

re: #329 lawhawk

So, when he says that he experienced Islam, I’m curious to know exactly what he means by experienced, although I doubt he is going to be so forthcoming - or honest - since he has never been forced to be honest about this aspect of his life before to the public.

As I said earlier I think you guys are reading way too much into that. Anyone who has lived or traveled in the Muslim world has experienced Islam. The food, the culture, the music, the architecture and the people. That’s what it’s about, nothing more. I think you guys are looking for something that just isn’t there.

344 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:46:15pm

re: #293 BigPapa

While I don’t like the two faced-ness of this, the mad mullahs gotta be freaking out about this, no?

Nah. We’re stll the Great Satan and they still hate us. No nuance there.

345 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:46:34pm

re: #298 Last Mohican

He said it many times. See my #153 above.

We’re reading the same thing and I don’t see that at all:

From the HuffPro article:

So far, Obama’s campaign has responded with aggressive corrections that tout his Christian faith, attack the attackers and channel a cooperative witness before the House Un-American Activities Committee. “Barack has never been a Muslim or practiced any other faith besides Christianity,” states one fact sheet. “I’m not and never have been of the Muslim faith,” Obama told a Christian News reporter.

He may have been a Muslim in name, but he never practiced the religion. His father was agnostic. The only religion he knew was Christianity. He was a MINO hehe, never considering himself a Muslim. That is exactly what he said. From his family, he has some cultural ties, but never practiced the faith.

The candidate’s comment at a Boca Raton, Florida, town hall meeting on May 22, 2008, was typical: “My father was basically agnostic, as far as I can tell, and I didn’t know him,” he said.

His father died when he was 2 if I recall.

the President himself experienced Islam on three continents before he was able to — or before he’s been able to visit, really, the heart of the Islamic world — you know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father — obviously Muslim Americans (are) a key part of Illinois and Chicago.”

“Experienced Islam” doesn’t make him a Muslim. He lived in Indonesia. He experienced it.

346 Kronocide  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:46:45pm

Teh onry whey to prove hes sekrit Muzlem is with nirth cerifikat. But hewon’t gev up.

347 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:46:46pm

I just have American roots.

348 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:47:01pm

re: #335 Bobibutu

60s and 70s? I was in and out a few times back then.

‘66 to ‘76.

My old school…….

349 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:47:02pm

re: #334 Charles

And that’s exactly my point. It’s deliberately, cleverly ambiguous.

It’s one thing to use that in a campaign to get elected, but NOW he is President of The United States. He speaks for me. And he has to be careful what he says and when he says it. Like in the next few days in the Middle East!

350 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:47:17pm

I have experienced dengue fever.
“Experienced Islam”?
Say what?

351 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:47:33pm

re: #302 big steve

How about his own campaign website……Obama Fact Check

Yikes, I did enough fact checking for one night. Where does he say he’s never been a Muslim?

352 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:47:33pm

re: #340 Truck Monkey

No, Obama is just his own Holy Prophet.

353 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:47:41pm

Liberal idiot on TV just said that Obama has a right to go on a date in NYC on our dime. How many kids could have been fed with that money.
Yes Obama get Netflix and Microwave popcorn, stay home like the rest of us.

354 Zimriel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:47:55pm

re: #161 iceman1960

I know who Obummer worships and it ain’t Allah or Jesus.


well, he didn’t write two commentaries on the Qur’an or two biographies of Jesus, I know that much

355 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:48:05pm

re: #329 lawhawk

he did say the call of the sound to prayer was the most beautiful sound (noise).
he had ever heard.

356 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:48:08pm

re: #347 Sharmuta

I just have American roots.

In the American sense of the word, or the Australian sense?

/

357 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:48:08pm

re: #345 American Sabra

AS … can he recite the call to prayer? … but I guess any person who in the future would want to run for president would want to have that trick card in their back pocket …

358 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:48:28pm

re: #343 Killgore Trout

And don’t you think it odd that Obama is purposefully stoking that ambiguity? He’s a lawyer. He’s a con-law adjunct professor. He’s supposed to know how to be precise in his language. His choice of language here is striking in its ambiguity.

That’s an eyebrow raiser.

359 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:03pm

re: #358 lawhawk

And don’t you think it odd that Obama is purposefully stoking that ambiguity? He’s a lawyer. He’s a con-law adjunct professor. He’s supposed to know how to be precise in his language. His choice of language here is striking in its ambiguity.

That’s an eyebrow raiser.

lawhawk … just words …

360 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:07pm

re: #334 Charles

And that’s exactly my point. It’s deliberately, cleverly ambiguous.

I think he is a very, very good, political animal.

361 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:09pm

re: #358 lawhawk

And don’t you think it odd that Obama is purposefully stoking that ambiguity? He’s a lawyer. He’s a con-law adjunct professor. He’s supposed to know how to be precise in his language. His choice of language here is striking in its ambiguity.

That’s an eyebrow raiser.

THAT’S IT! He is a lawyer. Too many lawyers in Washington.

:)

362 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:19pm

re: #351 American Sabra

Yikes, I did enough fact checking for one night. Where does he say he’s never been a Muslim?

He’s always said that.

363 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:40pm

Have a great evening all!

364 captdiggs  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:43pm

Well, I guess all this means that Obama will be allowed to travel on the ‘muslim only’ roads in Saudi Arabia. ;-)

365 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:44pm

re: #348 jcm

‘66 to ‘76.

My old school…….

Cool. I was working on some telecommunications contracts in country from time to time.

366 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:49:53pm

re: #325 Dianna

Black Book indicates many, many more.

I couldn’t recall the exact figure, so was being conservative. What does the BB estimate as the USSR’s grand total body count?

367 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:50:08pm

re: #311 NelsFree

re: #311 NelsFree

The Prophet Mohammed declared Mecca and Yathrib (now Medina) closed to non-muslims, under penalty of death. It is still enforced to this day.

So, if they let him into Mecca then he must be a Muslim.

Unless he isn’t a true Scotsman.

368 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:50:09pm

re: #358 lawhawk

“Con law” is a very fitting subject for a liar like Obama.

369 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:50:13pm

re: #361 ggt

THAT’S IT! He is a lawyer. Too many lawyers in Washington.

:)

I find myself thinking of Catherine Drinker Bowen’s remark: Those who dislike lawyers always picture them as moving in swarms.

370 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:50:24pm

I have to learn to type faster.

371 Kronocide  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:50:35pm

I wonder what this means for the First Lady. Has she ‘experienced’ Islam?

372 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:50:56pm

“Experienced Islam”

passive voice

not proactive, you see

it was just something that happened to him


Very, very well thought out.

373 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:51:20pm

re: #365 Bobibutu

Cool. I was working on some telecommunications contracts in country from time to time.

My folks were missionaries but we knew a lot defense contractors, military, oil types.

374 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:51:28pm

re: #349 Nevergiveup

It’s one thing to use that in a campaign to get elected, but NOW he is President of The United States. He speaks for me. And he has to be careful what he says and when he says it. Like in the next few days in the Middle East!

he is not thinking of us. right now, he is scribbling and re- scribbling out the perfect apology to this set new of moslems.

375 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:51:32pm

02:34 Shalom tells UN Chief: Blair must not be allowed to open office in Gaza (Haaretz)

Hell let him. But no bodyguards.

376 jvic  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:52:01pm

I’m guessing that every major choice Obama made, e.g. religion and spouse, was politically based. And continues to be so.

That’s not necessarily unusual (for a politician). There are precedents.

“Paris is worth a Mass.”

377 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:52:22pm

re: #358 lawhawk

I went back and read it again and I just don’t see it. I’m not confused at all about what it means to experience Islam on different continents. I’ve experienced Islam in America, Europe, Africa, Asia and India. I beat him by one continent.

378 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:52:23pm

re: #355 nyc redneck

he did say the call of the sound to prayer was the most beautiful sound (noise).
he had ever heard.

Like any politician Øbama says what is politically expedient at the time. No different. Same thing. He’s just maybe better at it than many.

379 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:52:24pm

re: #348 jcm

‘66 to ‘76.

My old school…….

I knew it! YOU’RE A SEKRIT MUESLIM!

380 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:52:57pm

re: #379 Occasional Reader

I knew it! YOU’RE A SEKRIT MUESLIM!

I KEEEL YOU!

381 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:53:09pm

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

382 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:53:25pm

re: #376 jvic

I think he and his wife are genuinely in love. They don’t strike me like the clintons at all.

383 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:53:26pm

re: #366 Occasional Reader

I couldn’t recall the exact figure, so was being conservative. What does the BB estimate as the USSR’s grand total body count?

Approximately 58 million. I’m looking for the exact cite.

384 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:53:50pm
385 calcajun  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:53:57pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

Again, as only Nixon could go to China, so only Obama could …

386 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:54:09pm

re: #377 Killgore Trout

India is a continent? Subcontinent perhaps, but it’s still part of Asia at last look /pedant

387 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:54:31pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

To which they have already told him thanks, but no thanks.

388 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:54:35pm

re: #377 Killgore Trout

I went back and read it again and I just don’t see it. I’m not confused at all about what it means to experience Islam on different continents. I’ve experienced Islam in America, Europe, Africa, Asia and India. I beat him by one continent.

did you seek out and experience radical Islam?…did he?…he sought out other avenues of anti American ideology….I want to here his doubletalk that’s all

389 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:54:47pm

From the article: Given widespread unease and prejudice against Muslims among Americans, especially in the wake of 9/11, the Obama campaign was perhaps understandably very sensitive during the primaries and general election to downplay the candidate’s Muslim roots.


Did I miss something? I don’t recall widespread unease and prejudice against muslims.

Islamic terrorists, on the other hand…

390 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:54:48pm

re: #318 Charles

You’re falling into the trap if you say “I was never a Muslim” contradicts “Obama’s Muslim roots.”

“Muslim roots” just means he “experienced Islam.” It doesn’t mean he was a Muslim.

Politics. Gotta love it. Or not.

I disagree.
I think it was carefully crafted so it could easily be read either way - vintage Obama.
Your interpretation is the one for domestic consumption.
The other interpretation is the one for the third world.

391 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:55:09pm

re: #384 spacejesus

Jees, jees!

392 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:55:16pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

I do not agree that that’s a fair and complete description of his initiative.

393 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:55:31pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

Sadly that will not happen in our lifetimes.

394 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:55:38pm

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

395 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:55:47pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

Good luck to him- he’s going to need it.

396 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:55:53pm

Maybe the best thing about Obama’s Muslim roots, included the fact he was considered a Muslim under Indonesian law, is that in the eyes of Muslim fundamentalists, Obama is an apostate. His example might encourage other Muslims to demand religious freedom.

397 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:56:03pm

re: #389 Van Helsing

From the article: Given widespread unease and prejudice against Muslims among Americans, especially in the wake of 9/11, the Obama campaign was perhaps understandably very sensitive during the primaries and general election to downplay the candidate’s Muslim roots.

Did I miss something? I don’t recall widespread unease and prejudice against muslims.

Islamic terrorists, on the other hand…

I remember some jackass shooting a Sikh not long after 9/11. But nothing widespread.

398 Jimmah  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:56:15pm

re: #347 Sharmuta

I have Irish catholic sheep stealing roots. I’ve experienced the catholicism but sadly not the sheep stealing.

Night folks:)

399 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:56:22pm

Politics sucks.

400 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:56:36pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

I hope he succeeds, but I think he’s beating his head against a wall.

401 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:56:57pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

There will be a collective faint, if that happens.

402 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:56:58pm

re: #362 avanti

He’s always said that.

I don’t think it’s true at all. He distanced himself from it, of course. It was being used against him. He has a Muslim culture so he can’t say he’s not Muslim, but clearly what he meant was that he never practiced the religion. In any meaningful way, at any rate, outside of being a little boy.

403 jvic  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:16pm

re: #382 Sharmuta

I think he and his wife are genuinely in love. They don’t strike me like the clintons at all.

I don’t dispute that. Michelle’s story about watching the ground zip by under the rusted-out floorboards of Obamas car has the ring of authenticity.

I was thinking more of pre-screening.

404 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:17pm

re: #378 unrealizedviewpoint

Like any politician Øbama says what is politically expedient at the time. No different. Same thing. He’s just maybe better at it than many.

i don’t think he is better at it.
he just has the msm covering for him, lying, omitting, spinning, praising, misinterpreting, genuflecting.
he is a hack. i can’t wait until the flying carpet is pulled out from under him.

405 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:19pm

re: #384 spacejesus
SJ you are odd.

406 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:21pm

re: #394 Charles

I wouldn’t hold my breath.

407 Truck Monkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:22pm

re: #393 Van Helsing

Sadly that will not happen in our lifetimes ever.

FTFY

408 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:23pm

re: #395 Sharmuta

Good luck to him- he’s going to need it.

tequila or whatever they call it

409 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:27pm

re: #397 jcm

Yeah, that was in Mesa IIRC. Suburb of Phoenix.
Don’t tell anyone from Mesa that I said that.

410 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:28pm

re: #400 swamprat

I hope he succeeds, but I think he’s beating his head against a wall.

Air Force One’s interior walls will be full of holes.

411 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:30pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

If they do… and take actions that back up those words (like, oh, I dunno, cutting off support from and denouncing Hamas and Hizballah), I will happily eat my words.

But I’m not counting on it.

412 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:44pm

re: #399 Racer X

Politics sucks.

At least prostitutes are up front about wanting money to screw someone.

413 Kronocide  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:57:55pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

That would qualify as an Uber Cubed SHOCKA!

414 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:58:10pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

Well, he may be naive, but he sure has ambitious dreams.

415 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:58:24pm

re: #345 American Sabra

“Experienced Islam” doesn’t make him a Muslim. He lived in Indonesia. He experienced it.

You could grow up in Salt Lake City (or Tulsa) and experience Mormon or fundamentalist culture; go to the local stake or the local church but never be baptized. And having done that you could move to New York City and convert to Hinduism or Islam or Judaism.

416 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:58:34pm

re: #409 Van Helsing

Yeah, that was in Mesa IIRC. Suburb of Phoenix.
Don’t tell anyone from Mesa that I said that.

Phoenix is the suburb? Right?

417 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:58:41pm

re: #373 jcm

My folks were missionaries but we knew a lot defense contractors, military, oil types.

Tight community. I did not spend much time there - a few installations and testing then back to Singapore or Thailand.

An associate of mine - we still communicate - was an advisor to SAVAK and the Shah’s security detail.

418 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:58:43pm

re: #404 nyc redneck
The honeymoon will end when we have high oil prices and double digit inflation.

419 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:58:57pm

re: #345 American Sabra

“Experienced Islam” doesn’t make him a Muslim. He lived in Indonesia. He experienced it.

It sounds like you agree that he claimed he was never a Muslim, but you disagree with the idea that he ever really was a Muslim. I’m gonna stop posting on this soon, because I’ve now written so many posts with the word “Muslim” in them that it must seem like I think it’s bad that he used to be a Muslim. I don’t. It’s fine. As I said, it could actually be a good thing in a president.

But here’s the deal: even while he was in a Catholic school in Indonesia, where presumably identifying oneself as a non-Muslim would not bring discrimination, he was identified as a Muslim in school records, where selecting a religion was required. There are accounts of him attending Muslim religious classes, studying the Koran, and praying in Mosques.

Maybe he did all that without really believing what he was practicing. Or maybe, like many kids, he just kind of did it because he was told he was a Muslim, and that’s what Muslims do, without having any deep feelings about it.

My point is this: let’s say, when I was little, I went to Hebrew school every weekend, attended Shabbat services at the temple, told my friends I was Jewish, and had a bar mitzvah. But then later, when I was an adult, I converted to Christianity, and decided that I had actually never really been all that happy with Judaism the whole time, and never really had any deep feelings about it. I would not then go around telling people I had never been Jewish.

420 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:58:59pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

1. Do you think he has a chance of convincing several Arab states to officially recognize the state of Israel?

2. Do you think those Arab states will hold to their word?

421 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:59:12pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

Let’s not get carried away with this recognition thing. Recognition can be withdrawn on a Moments notice. The “peace” with Egypt is so cold I can feel the freeze here in NJ, and it’s one bullet away from being abrogated anyway. And the Saudi’s have floated this crap before: See Tom Friedman and the NYT’s being taken on that years ago.

422 brookly red  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:59:35pm

re: #384 spacejesus

spacejesus shall smite this secret muslim anti-christ you call “obama”.

it is written.

/secret service detains bloger, video at 11:00…

423 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:59:42pm

re: #411 Occasional Reader

Only Iran, Syria & Qatar support Hamas & Hezbollah. They won’t recognize Israel.

424 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:59:55pm

re: #401 Dianna

There will be a collective faint, if that happens.

It won’t happen. Didn’t someone mention something today about America imposing its views on other countries? Why would this be any different. It would be great if Obama convinced them but I doubt it.

425 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:00:07pm

Anyone giving odds on whether the POTUS bows/stumbles when greeting the oil lords?

426 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:00:21pm

re: #414 avanti

He aint half so naive as the people who voted for him.

427 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:00:38pm

re: #382 Sharmuta

I think he and his wife are genuinely in love. They don’t strike me like the clintons at all.

Obama apologist!
////

428 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:00:41pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

If he does, then he’ll really piss off the right by pressuring Israel to stop the settlements. It could get ugly.

429 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:00:49pm

re: #416 jcm

Phoenix is the suburb? Right?

Chuckle.
This urban area is soooooo spread out. My youngest lives in Chandler, I live in central north Phoenix. It’s nearly 45 miles twixt the two and you are in ‘city’ the whole drive.

430 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:00:52pm

re: #418 snowcrash

The honeymoon will end when we have high oil prices and double digit inflation.


do you think he will try blame it on bush?

431 danrudy  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:01:25pm

re: #334 Charles

And that’s exactly my point. It’s deliberately, cleverly ambiguous.

well, I would then conclude with regard to the promised “openness form him and his administration ” he has lied.

432 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:01:28pm

This guy’s in used-car salesman mode, although I’m not sure what lemon he’s trying to pawn off on the Muslim world.

0bama is that douchebag used-car salesman that pretends to be a potential customer’s buddy to try and make the sale. This is about the only thing consistent from his administration.

433 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:01:33pm

re: #412 FurryOldGuyJeans

At least prostitutes are up front about wanting money to screw someone.

Politics / Prostitution. Only one should be legal. The one with a “happy” ending.

434 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:01:37pm

re: #428 avanti

If he does, then he’ll really piss off the right by pressuring Israel to stop the settlements. It could get ugly.

Hay avanti, ever been to a “settlement”?

435 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:01:50pm

I’m not that concerned with Obama having ‘Muslim roots’; it’s the ‘Chicago Machine’ roots that bother me.

Just like his ‘experiencing Islam’. The ‘experiencing Chicago Machine politics’ seems to have stuck more than any Islamic teachings.

If power corrupts, does corrupt power absolutely corrupt2?

436 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:01:56pm

re: #428 avanti

If he does, then he’ll really piss off the right by pressuring Israel to stop the settlements. It could get ugly.

for who?…Israel has a right to the settlements on the WB…

437 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:02:08pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

If he accomplishes that, without Israel having to recognize the so-called “right of return,” and thereby officially ending its own existence, I will be very impressed. I’ll give him all the credit he would deserve.

But I really, really don’t see that happening.

438 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:02:26pm

re: #419 Last Mohican

In Indonesia it is the law that any child born to a Muslim father is automatically considered a Muslim. The child and the mother have no say in the matter.

439 NY Nana  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:02:37pm

re: #380 jcm

I KEEEL YOU!

Here you go!

Youtube Video
440 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:02:58pm

re: #428 avanti

If he does, then he’ll really piss off the right by pressuring Israel to stop the settlements. It could get ugly.

Yeah, those settlements are the real problem, of course.

/oh, please

441 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:03:07pm

re: #426 Kenneth

He aint half so naive as the people who voted for him.

Hope and change brother. He has the hope, the change will be the bitch.

442 Truck Monkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:03:19pm

re: #425 Spare O’Lake

Anyone giving odds on whether the POTUS bows/stumbles when greeting the oil lords?

The back story he whole bowing story was that The Teleprompter Jesus was just checking out the Kings ‘bad ass’ new sandals. The bloggers just like to make shit up. We all know this. ; )

443 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:03:35pm

Alouette proved 0bama has super hero roots.

444 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:03:48pm

re: #438 Kenneth

In Indonesia it is the law that any child born to a Muslim father is automatically considered a Muslim. The child and the mother have no say in the matter.

Was that before or after the Wahabi infiltration? The answer does make a difference.

445 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:03:51pm

re: #417 Bobibutu

Tight community. I did not spend much time there - a few installations and testing then back to Singapore or Thailand.

An associate of mine - we still communicate - was an advisor to SAVAK and the Shah’s security detail.

My dad and I got picked up by the SAVAK, trying to help a European hitchhiker get into Turkey. They “boss” guy listened to our story, pulled all the appropriate stamps out of drawing and fixed up the hitchhiker and sent us all on our way.

446 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:04:04pm

Sharmutra do you know that Barack and Michelle lived apart for most of the marriage?

447 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:04:24pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

I don’t think there’s much danger of that happening. If is gains are made they’ll be fairly short lived. There’s always another crisis for Israel to deal with every couple of years and the Muslims world complains every time Israel defends itself. Peace is a long ways away.

448 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:04:25pm

re: #428 avanti

Obama should be fair then and insist Palestinians stop building settlements too.

449 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:04:28pm

re: #418 snowcrash

The honeymoon will end when we have high oil prices and double digit inflation.

Quasi-nationalized car companies and banks and near double-digit unemployment didn’t do the trick?

450 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:05:00pm

re: #446 Afrocity

Sharmutra do you know that Barack and Michelle lived apart for most of the marriage?

I sure didn’t, but not surprising one whit considering the two.

451 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:05:01pm
452 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:05:30pm

re: #447 Killgore Trout

I don’t think there’s much danger of that happening. If is gains are made they’ll be fairly short lived. There’s always another crisis for Israel to deal with every couple of years and the Muslims world complains every time Israel defends itself. Peace is a long ways away.

How much would a nuclear iran change that, I wonder?

453 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:05:41pm

re: #448 Kenneth

Obama should be fair then and insist Palestinians stop building settlements too.

Well lets be honest, if they were building alot instead of destroying alot, we might not have this mess now?

454 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:05:44pm

re: #429 Van Helsing

Chuckle.
This urban area is soooooo spread out. My youngest lives in Chandler, I live in central north Phoenix. It’s nearly 45 miles twixt the two and you are in ‘city’ the whole drive.

Tacoma - Seattle - Everett is the same way. City and ‘burbs for 80 miles.

455 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:05:46pm

re: #441 avanti

Hope and change were the empty slogans of a cynical party. You fell for it, brother. Reality is a bitch.

456 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:05:59pm

re: #447 Killgore Trout

I don’t think there’s much danger of that happening. If is gains are made they’ll be fairly short lived. There’s always another crisis for Israel to deal with every couple of years and the Muslims world complains every time Israel defends itself. Peace is a long ways away.

peace will have to be imposed on the ME…that’s been obvious for decades…who will move first is the mystery

457 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:06:02pm

re: #394 Charles

Many countries in the Middle East recognize Israel existence - as data points for their missiles and proxy armies.

Oh, you mean the peaceful recognition as a groundwork to a peace deal? If there are any that would go that route, I think the short list is Kuwait and Qatar and maybe some of the emirates. Don’t hold your breath for Saudi Arabia, Yemen, or even Iraq at this point.

Turkey has a strategic relationship with Israel, but doesn’t have a peace deal.

Of course, most of the countries in the region don’t mind it when Israel stomps on the jihadis, since they can do it far easier than the totalitarian regimes can (particularly since Israel can get demonized for doing so, while the regimes push jihad outwards so as to continue their own grip on power).

I think if regimes in the ME simply stop demonizing Israel, that would be a start.

458 Kronocide  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:06:02pm

I’m still trying to reconcile how he can be a socialist and Muslim. Not a big group I would think.

459 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:06:26pm

re: #438 Kenneth

In Indonesia it is the law that any child born to a Muslim father is automatically considered a Muslim. The child and the mother have no say in the matter.

Okay, and I don’t argue that Obama at any point in his life CHOSE to be a Muslim.

There are people who say “I was raised as a fundamentalist Baptist, and I hated every minute of it.” But if later, after they’ve grown up and declared themselves atheists or Presbyterians or whatever, if someone asks them “have you ever been a Baptist,” the answer should be something other than “no, I have never been a Baptist.”

460 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:06:39pm

re: #222 ggt

If you’re a left winger, he was right wing. If you’re a right winger, he was left wing. That way you get to call who ever you don’t like an ally of Hitler. Pretty convenient, huh? Because, if you don’t have an actual argument, you can always call out “Hitler”!

461 jaunte  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:06:50pm

re: #216 Charles

Again, this is all spin — he’s saying he was never a believer in Islam, and it’s probably true. As far as it goes. And saying he has “Muslim roots” is also spin — it doesn’t mean he was a Muslim in reality — it means he “experienced Islam.”

This guy is the quintessential politician. Mercurial and impossible to pin down. The only outright statement of religious affiliation he’s made is that he’s a Christian — and that one he had to make in order to be elected in the United States.

Do you think there is a set of voters who found Obama acceptable for this reason (he said he was a Christian) but would not have voted for him if he had not said so?

462 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:06:54pm

re: #428 avanti

If he does, then he’ll really piss off the right by pressuring Israel to stop the settlements. It could get ugly.

I’m sorry Avanti…I’m watching a movie. Are you talking about Charles?
His motivations? I’m sorry..I may have read the post wrong Chief

463 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:03pm

re: #445 jcm

My dad and I got picked up by the SAVAK, trying to help a European hitchhiker get into Turkey. They “boss” guy listened to our story, pulled all the appropriate stamps out of drawing and fixed up the hitchhiker and sent us all on our way.

My hats off to your parents - serious commitment.

464 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:09pm

re: #440 Occasional Reader

Yeah, those settlements are the real problem, of course.

/oh, please

They have been the issue for 3 or 4 POTUS’s. No one says stopping them is the solution, but every POTUS has recognized they are a problem. agree or not.

465 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:15pm

re: #454 jcm

Tacoma - Seattle - Everett is the same way. City and ‘burbs for 80 miles.

I grew up in Tacoma. 40 years ago it was different. When I go back to visit family I make sure I get a car with GPS.

466 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:25pm

re: #458 BigPapa

I’m still trying to reconcile how he can be a socialist and Muslim. Not a big group I would think.

Eh, the Muslim thing is just a front for the anti-Westernism; explains the left’s sudden love affair with Islam once the Reds went Tango Uniform. They always need an enemy with whom to align.

467 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:36pm

re: #372 swamprat

“Experienced Islam”

passive voice

not proactive, you see

it was just something that happened to him


Very, very well thought out.

Well, in the case of Indonesia, it was. In a similar sense, my husband ‘experienced’ Oklahoma.

468 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:40pm

Occasional Reader, Stephane Courtois, in the introduction, says the USSR’s number is 20 million.

That seems improbably low, given the Book’s numbers in the main section on the Soviets, which seem to add to approximately 58 million.

469 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:42pm

re: #430 nyc redneck
That’s always worth a try. lol

470 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:44pm

re: #419 Last Mohican

My point is this: let’s say, when I was little, I went to Hebrew school every weekend, attended Shabbat services at the temple, told my friends I was Jewish, and had a bar mitzvah. But then later, when I was an adult, I converted to Christianity, and decided that I had actually never really been all that happy with Judaism the whole time, and never really had any deep feelings about it. I would not then go around telling people I had never been Jewish.


And this is why you are probably not a politician, nor ever will be.

471 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:07:56pm

re: #434 Nevergiveup

I’ve been to several communities - including the Gush bloc - Gush Etzion, and went through several kibbutzim. They’re called settlements.

But as I’ve repeatedly pointed out, settlements were never a stumbling block to peace. Israel has withdrawn from communities in the past, and could do so again in the future if those who were getting those settlements believed in a genuine peace. The Palestinians have shown their true colors - no interest in peace alongside a Jewish state of Israel.

472 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:08:03pm

There are many kinds of love. Bill and Hillary do love each other and are very loyal. After a while romantic love turns into something else- a more durable understanding of one another. Many marriages survive infidelity. Eleanor Roosevelt knew about FDR’s mistress, yet she still loved him.

I find the Obamas shows of affection to be very feigned. They are staging Camelot 2.0. Sure JFK and Jackie were the purrfect couple (wink). Pretty pictures take them out of the frame and all you have is an empty space.

473 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:08:49pm

re: #459 Last Mohican

Correct. I am not impressed with Obama’s honesty on this matter. Just one of the reasons I do not trust a word he says.

474 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:08:55pm

If Arab states recognize Israel, that would certainly not equate to “peace in our time,” of course.

re: #461 jaunte

Do you think there is a set of voters who found Obama acceptable for this reason (he said he was a Christian) but would not have voted for him if he had not said so?

Yep. I’m thinking of the Rick Warren contingent — “progressive evangelicals.”

475 Gella  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:09:02pm

re: #446 Afrocity

Sharmutra do you know that Barack and Michelle lived apart for most of the marriage?

where did u get this info? interesting

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:09:24pm

re: #381 Charles

Obama is on Air Force One, headed to Saudi Arabia, as we speak.

He’s promoting his initiative to get the Arab world to diplomatically recognize Israel.

I’m trying to come up with some response that combines support for the goal, and total disbelief that we’re gonna get there.

I give up.

Good luck, Mr. President. May the Force be with you.

477 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:09:28pm

Do we know if Obama’s father was a shiite or sunni? Or other?

I always assumed shiite because of Obama’s middle name but I’m not sure…

478 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:09:41pm

re: #462 HoosierHoops

I’m sorry Avanti…I’m watching a movie. Are you talking about Charles?
His motivations? I’m sorry..I may have read the post wrong Chief

No, BHO will piss off the right, Charles just pisses off some of the right and most of the left.

479 formercorpsman  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:09:54pm

re: #394 Charles

It will be to his credit if he can. That would be a success no matter how you slice it.

My only reservation with something like that is what strings might come attached to it.

But, if there are countries who diplomatically start to recognize Israel’s right to exist, that is a major win in his column.

480 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:10:11pm

re: #464 avanti

They have been the issue for 3 or 4 POTUS’s. No one says stopping them is the solution, but every POTUS has recognized they are a problem. agree or not.

show us a poll….the settlements have been used over and over by the Arabs who lost control of the WB….it’s only an issue if you let it

481 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:10:16pm

re: #471 lawhawk

I’ve been to several communities - including the Gush bloc - Gush Etzion, and went through several kibbutzim. They’re called settlements.

But as I’ve repeatedly pointed out, settlements were never a stumbling block to peace. Israel has withdrawn from communities in the past, and could do so again in the future if those who were getting those settlements believed in a genuine peace. The Palestinians have shown their true colors - no interest in peace alongside a Jewish state of Israel.


So have I. I was just curious if Avanti had?

482 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:10:48pm

re: #463 Bobibutu

My hats off to your parents - serious commitment.

Wouldn’t trade growing up there for anything.

483 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:10:50pm

re: #27 Steffan

Somebody’s been inhaling too much of the Kool-Aid over there.

During the election, it was very convenient for the MSM to gloss over this.

Now, it’s very convenient for the MSM to notice it.

the way you framed things makes it obvious that the media was 100% in the tank for Obama. They chose not to do their job because they wanted the Dem candidate to win. Other than FOX News and the NY Post, all of the MSM behaved despicably and deserve nothing but scorn. Fuck them … fuck all of them.

484 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:10:53pm

re: #464 avanti

They have been the issue for 3 or 4 POTUS’s. No one says stopping them is the solution, but every POTUS has recognized they are a problem. agree or not.

No, they were not “the” issue for Bush. Yes, he paid lip service to the “settlements” wheeze, but he did at least recognize that Palestinian irredentism was the real problem; hence his cutting off of the grotesque, decades-long pantomime of “Yassir Arafat: Statesman”. Whatever else were Bush’s failings in the region, he at least accomplished that.

Obama, on the other hand, makes few or no references to ANY responsibilities on the Palestinian side; the entire burden is on Israel. It’s a sick joke.

485 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:10:59pm

re: #389 Van Helsing

From the article: Given widespread unease and prejudice against Muslims among Americans, especially in the wake of 9/11, the Obama campaign was perhaps understandably very sensitive during the primaries and general election to downplay the candidate’s Muslim roots.


Did I miss something? I don’t recall widespread unease and prejudice against muslims.

Islamic terrorists, on the other hand…

You might have missed a few things here and there. Not everyone was entirely clear on the distinction—not everyone still is entirely clear on the distinction.

We did amazingly good, though, overall.

486 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:11:05pm

re: #471 lawhawk

I’ve been to several communities - including the Gush bloc - Gush Etzion, and went through several kibbutzim. They’re called settlements.

But as I’ve repeatedly pointed out, settlements were never a stumbling block to peace. Israel has withdrawn from communities in the past, and could do so again in the future if those who were getting those settlements believed in a genuine peace. The Palestinians have shown their true colors - no interest in peace alongside a Jewish state of Israel.

They withdrew from Gaza and abandoned settlements there.
How’d that work out for them?

And the House of Saud recognizing Israel? Is it true you can’t get into the kingdom if your passport has an Israeli stamp?

487 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:11:13pm

re: #477 experiencedtraveller

Sunni, but not a practicing Muslim at all. His step dad was also Sunni.

488 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:11:23pm

re: #468 Dianna

Occasional Reader, Stephane Courtois, in the introduction, says the USSR’s number is 20 million.

That seems improbably low, given the Book’s numbers in the main section on the Soviets, which seem to add to approximately 58 million.

Definitely low. Stalin alone killed 20 million.

489 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:11:27pm

re: #465 Van Helsing

I grew up in Tacoma. 40 years ago it was different. When I go back to visit family I make sure I get a car with GPS.

LOL!

You can’t get there from here.

;-P

490 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:11:42pm

We have the first down-dinger on this article: Marianne.

491 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:01pm

re: #446 Afrocity

Heya Afrocity….

Not too long ago, I did a Yahoo search trying to find some verbatim quotes where 0bama said that Americans would all have to make sacrifices.

One of the first hits was actually some articles about how Michelle 0bama would have to ‘sacrifice’ her $215,000 salary at the hospital where she worked so that BH0 could run for office.

You know…the position that the hospital subsequently eliminated altogether instead of finding a replacement for Michelle?

492 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #472 Afrocity

There are many kinds of love. Bill and Hillary do love each other and are very loyal. After a while romantic love turns into something else- a more durable understanding of one another. Many marriages survive infidelity. Eleanor Roosevelt knew about FDR’s mistress, yet she still loved him.

I find the Obamas shows of affection to be very feigned. They are staging Camelot 2.0. Sure JFK and Jackie were the purrfect couple (wink). Pretty pictures take them out of the frame and all you have is an empty space.

Eleanor was pretty pissed with FDR for his dalliances, and their “relationship” in the latter years was dam near purely political.

493 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:16pm

In the spinoffs there is a link to an interview that Obama gave recently … I don’t know if what he says is correct … can someone tell me? …

“And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world,” Mr. Obama said. “And so there’s got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples.”

How many muslims are in the United States? …

494 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:21pm

re: #488 Occasional Reader

Definitely low. Stalin alone killed 20 million.

Stalin slew his millions, and Mao his tens of millions.

495 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:23pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

True. Of course, it will also confirm for me that he may be either Moshiach or the anti-Christ, and lead to my stockpiling Campbell’s soup in my garage. I don’t expect this to happen. But if it does, it will be extremely interesting.

496 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:39pm

re: #452 Sharmuta

Quick OT question: Did you get my email from this morning? And could you work with the attachment?

497 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:46pm

re: #475 Gella

Michelle said it herself during an interview. When BO was in the IL senate, it took a toll on the marriage.

498 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:12:53pm

re: #490 Charles

We have the first down-dinger on this article: Marianne.

Damn. I was madly in love with a woman named Marianne about 10 years ago, and still have warm feelings about the name.

Curses!

499 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:13:01pm

re: #488 Occasional Reader

Definitely low. Stalin alone killed 20 million.

Democide puts it at 62.

500 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:13:05pm
501 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:13:14pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m trying to come up with some response that combines support for the goal, and total disbelief that we’re gonna get there.

I give up.

Good luck, Mr. President. May the Force be with you.

How about: “May you current deity of convenience be with you.”

502 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:13:34pm

‘Marianne’ is a hell of a sleeper, too - registered June 27, 2004, with no comments at all, but suddenly pops up to down ding this article.

Ain’t the intarwebs great?

503 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:13:40pm

re: #267 ihateronpaul

I don’t think Pakistan and Afghanistan are considered part of the Middle East, are they?

504 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:13:57pm

re: #494 Guanxi88

Stalin slew his millions, and Mao his tens of millions.

pretty soon you’re talkin real numbers

505 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:14:12pm

re: #488 Occasional Reader

Definitely low. Stalin alone killed 20 million.

Yes - I give Lenin a total of about 8-10; hard to say, of course, with the Civil War and the Famine.

I’ve never been sure how to count the war dead. Does that 20 million go to Stalin’s account, or not?

506 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:14:14pm

re: #491 Fenway_Nation

She made more than $215,000. That hospital was also involved in patient dumping.

507 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:14:14pm

re: #496 Dianna

I got it, I haven’t gotten into it yet. I’m going to try another computer.

508 swamprat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:14:18pm

re: #467 SanFranciscoZionist

We all have a cross to bear!

Don’t hate me okies!
sorry
Dohnt hait mee okies!
/just funnin’

509 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:14:52pm

re: #480 albusteve

show us a poll….the settlements have been used over and over by the Arabs who lost control of the WB….it’s only an issue if you let it


No poll, just all the peace agreements from Carter to Bush at Annapolis talked about a settlement freeze as part of a two state solution. If all the Arab countries offer to recognize Israel, the pressure will be pretty hard to resist. BTW, that is a mighty big IF,

510 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:14:59pm

re: #504 albusteve

pretty soon you’re talkin real numbers

“One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic.”

-Smilin’ Joe

(you can’t say he didn’t know his business)

511 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:00pm

re: #482 jcm

Wouldn’t trade growing up there for anything.

A profoundly unique experience. Expats kids had all the fun - no matter the country.

512 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:02pm

re: #505 Dianna

He can split them with Hitler.

513 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:08pm

re: #487 Kenneth

Sunni, but not a practicing Muslim at all. His step dad was also Sunni.

Thanks Kenneth. I understand his biological father was a dedicated Marxist which would certainly limit the practice of any religion.

514 Gella  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:29pm

re: #505 Dianna

Yes - I give Lenin a total of about 8-10; hard to say, of course, with the Civil War and the Famine.

I’ve never been sure how to count the war dead. Does that 20 million go to Stalin’s account, or not?

for Staling numbers are probably even higher, from what i know a lot of information is still hidden or missing

515 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:38pm

re: #504 albusteve

pretty soon you’re talkin real numbers

Always puzzled me, and I’m a Jew. Hitler is a byword for genocide and mass-murder, and rightly so. Stalin and Mao? They’re the answers to bonus questions on high school history exams.

516 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:39pm

I am very upset. Had I known this information, I might not have voted for him.

517 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:55pm

re: #503 avspatti

I don’t think Pakistan and Afghanistan are considered part of the Middle East, are they?

They must because of linkage? Don’t ya know if Israel makes nicey nice to the Palestinians all those problems will go away? Get with the program.

518 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:15:55pm

re: #502 Charles

‘Marianne’ is a hell of a sleeper, too - registered June 27, 2004, with no comments at all, but suddenly pops up to down ding this article.

Ain’t the intarwebs great?

Come out and play!

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:16:30pm

re: #471 lawhawk

I’ve been to several communities - including the Gush bloc - Gush Etzion, and went through several kibbutzim. They’re called settlements.

But as I’ve repeatedly pointed out, settlements were never a stumbling block to peace. Israel has withdrawn from communities in the past, and could do so again in the future if those who were getting those settlements believed in a genuine peace. The Palestinians have shown their true colors - no interest in peace alongside a Jewish state of Israel.

You’ve been to Gush Etzion? I have an online acquaintance who lives there. Cool.

520 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:16:35pm

re: #275 jcm

It’s Europe’s fault, the colonies you see.

Something isn’t our fault? Amazing.

521 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:16:35pm

re: #502 Charles

‘Marianne’ is a hell of a sleeper, too - registered June 27, 2004, with no comments at all, but suddenly pops up to down ding this article.

Ain’t the intarwebs great?

Stinky “promote” ‘em?

522 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:16:42pm

re: #509 avanti

No poll, just all the peace agreements from Carter to Bush at Annapolis talked about a settlement freeze as part of a two state solution. If all the Arab countries offer to recognize Israel, the pressure will be pretty hard to resist. BTW, that is a mighty big IF,

And so Jews on the West Bank can’t have sex?

523 Kronocide  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:16:48pm

Marianne es sekrit mornbut cum out de hole!

524 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:16:52pm

re: #518 Racer X

Come out and play!

“Warrrrriorrrs… come out and playyyyayyy….

525 jaunte  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:08pm

That’s a long sleep for just one ding.

526 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:23pm

re: #516 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am very upset. Had I known this information, I might not have voted for him.

If the election were held today. I think he’d win again. Oh boy, what does that say about us?

527 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:23pm

re: #514 Gella

for Staling numbers are probably even higher, from what i know a lot of information is still hidden or missing

I know. To say nothing of records never made.

528 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:29pm

re: #515 Guanxi88

Always puzzled me, and I’m a Jew. Hitler is a byword for genocide and mass-murder, and rightly so. Stalin and Mao? They’re the answers to bonus questions on high school history exams.

Joe and Mao were commies….they have a different veiled story…freedom fighters, you know

529 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:31pm

re: #446 Afrocity

Sharmutra do you know that Barack and Michelle lived apart for most of the marriage?

No my friend
But I think that is unfair to any couple..Relationships are so complex and it is never fair for us to judge them…
The Baracks have done just fine as a couple in my most humble opinion..
I refuse to allow our politic views to become a personal destructive view..
I really think they love each other..With all their hearts with 2 wonderful little girls..I can seperate that from politics..
Love you guys..I’ve gone all soft tonight….

530 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:37pm

re: #525 jaunte

That’s a long sleep for just one ding.

Well, soon it’ll be the Big Sleep (great novel and OK film, btw)

531 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:47pm

re: #515 Guanxi88

Always puzzled me, and I’m a Jew. Hitler is a byword for genocide and mass-murder, and rightly so. Stalin and Mao? They’re the answers to bonus questions on high school history exams.

It’s all in the PR capability. Stalin had Walter Duranty and the NYT to help him.

532 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:51pm

re: #520 avspatti

Something isn’t our fault? Amazing.

Obama will apologize any way…….

533 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:17:54pm

re: #526 unrealizedviewpoint

I just vurped. Thanks.

534 fuad al'razi  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:18:07pm

I still don’t get why American Jews voted for this incredible hypocrite.

535 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:18:18pm

Pol Pot was no slouch.

536 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:18:34pm

re: #515 Guanxi88

Always puzzled me, and I’m a Jew. Hitler is a byword for genocide and mass-murder, and rightly so. Stalin and Mao? They’re the answers to bonus questions on high school history exams.

You’re not alone. Reading The Black Book of Communism, one of the remarks is that the authors don’t understand that attitude, either.

537 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:18:39pm

re: #535 jamgarr

Pol Pot was no slouch.

True, if you look at percentages versus total numbers, he’s right up there.

538 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:18:48pm

re: #419 Last Mohican

It sounds like you agree that he claimed he was never a Muslim, but you disagree with the idea that he ever really was a Muslim. I’m gonna stop posting on this soon, because I’ve now written so many posts with the word “Muslim” in them that it must seem like I think it’s bad that he used to be a Muslim. I don’t. It’s fine. As I said, it could actually be a good thing in a president.

But here’s the deal: even while he was in a Catholic school in Indonesia, where presumably identifying oneself as a non-Muslim would not bring discrimination, he was identified as a Muslim in school records, where selecting a religion was required. There are accounts of him attending Muslim religious classes, studying the Koran, and praying in Mosques.

Maybe he did all that without really believing what he was practicing. Or maybe, like many kids, he just kind of did it because he was told he was a Muslim, and that’s what Muslims do, without having any deep feelings about it.

My point is this: let’s say, when I was little, I went to Hebrew school every weekend, attended Shabbat services at the temple, told my friends I was Jewish, and had a bar mitzvah. But then later, when I was an adult, I converted to Christianity, and decided that I had actually never really been all that happy with Judaism the whole time, and never really had any deep feelings about it. I would not then go around telling people I had never been Jewish.

Well not to be picky, but if you went to Yeshivah and had a bar mitzvah you most defintely would have been Jewish. But I don’t think his Muslim schooling, all before age 8 was it? was anything near to that kind of religious education.

A better analogy would be a reform Jew who sometimes went to shul, didn’t keep kosher, didn’t practice Shabbot, Passover or any of the other big holidays and just had a Jewish mother.

Put it this way, if him being a Muslim wasn’t an issue (and it was definitely a HUGE one), he would have been more than happy to associate more with his Muslim culture/roots. I never thought it was something he practiced or believed in and he said it wasn’t.

And yes, I’m uncomfortable with this seemy conversation as well.

539 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:18:54pm

re: #529 HoosierHoops

HH, you’re a class act. I completely agree… I will not attack the Obama’s personal relationship or family life, and have no basis for doing so.

540 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:19:02pm

re: #531 Van Helsing

It’s all in the PR capability. Stalin had Walter Duranty and the NYT to help him.

Yeah, and that [deleted] Pullet Surprise is still in their trophy case.

541 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:19:06pm

Maybe ya need a rule of a minimum number of comments to remain an active lizard. Marianne show yourself.

542 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:19:22pm

re: #537 Guanxi88

True, if you look at percentages versus total numbers, he’s right up there.

Sort of a “very talented junior varsity”, in that league.

543 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:19:33pm

re: #506 Afrocity

I heard about that- I think she personally signed off on that saying ‘It’s important to redirect some patients to clinics and facilities within their own communities’ or somesuch. I guess they found someone who could dump patients for alot cheaper.

544 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:19:35pm
545 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:20:03pm

re: #519 SanFranciscoZionist

Was there only for a few hours on a tour, but seeing it is a whole lot different than just reading about it.

546 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:20:04pm

re: #529 HoosierHoops

My wife and I have lived apart more than together. My jobs have always required extensive travel.

547 J.S.  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:20:14pm

re: #287 Dianna

WHAT?! (up here in Canada, I believe it’s been a long established fact that the CIA armed the Taliban, and the most radical ones at that, since the CIA figured that the radical Islamists would be the best fighters to rid Afghanistan of the Soviet presence…I’ve heard this so frequently, it’s practically “a given.” )

548 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:20:17pm

re: #486 Van Helsing

They withdrew from Gaza and abandoned settlements there.
How’d that work out for them?

And the House of Saud recognizing Israel? Is it true you can’t get into the kingdom if your passport has an Israeli stamp?

Well, in the sense that they no longer have to patrol in Gaza, pretty good. I think Sharon’s plan was to pull behind solid borders there, and I think it was not a bad move, although the resettlement of the people pulled out has been a disgrace.

549 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:20:20pm

re: #542 Occasional Reader

Sort of a “very talented junior varsity”, in that league.

I love that his funeral pyre included a crappy plastic chair and that they burned him along with other garbage from the Khmer Rouge camp.

550 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:20:56pm

re: #531 Van Helsing

It’s all in the PR capability. Stalin had Walter Duranty and the NYT to help him.

Remember that Duranty was not entirely a willing dupe.

George Bernard Shaw or some other “intellectuals”? Oh, yes.

551 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:21:31pm

re: #545 lawhawk

Was there only for a few hours on a tour, but seeing it is a whole lot different than just reading about it.

I wonder if people have any idea just how empty alot of the West Bank is?

552 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:21:54pm

re: #535 jamgarr

Pol Pot was no slouch.

Approximately 20% of the population, so says the Black Book. In percentage terms, it could be said that Pol Pot took the prize.

553 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:22:09pm

re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist

You’re correct of course about the patrolling.
I was thinking of Gaza becoming the launchpad for Hamas’ merry bands of rocketeers.

554 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:22:29pm

re: #547 J.S.

WHAT?! (up here in Canada, I believe it’s been a long established fact that the CIA armed the Taliban, and the most radical ones at that, since the CIA figured that the radical Islamists would be the best fighters to rid Afghanistan of the Soviet presence…I’ve heard this so frequently, it’s practically “a given.” )

The “Taliban”, per se, were a post-1990 phenomenon.

555 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:22:32pm

re: #547 J.S.

Try looking up a book called Disinformation.

556 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:22:43pm

re: #534 fuad al’razi

I still don’t get why American Jews voted for this incredible hypocrite.

it shows that many Jews aren’t as smart as their enemies seem to think. I think the media convinced most of the country that BHO was running against GW Bush and not against John McCain. I truly believe many voters really WERE that stupid.

557 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:22:43pm

re: #289 Charles

Wow. Four hate mails already over this post. Apparently I’m supposed to be screaming, “I wuz WRONG! ! ! He really iz a sekrit Mozlem! Please forgive me! ! ! !”

Only four? Surely, more are coming. LOL

558 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:22:50pm

re: #528 albusteve

Joe and Mao were commies….they have a different veiled story…freedom fighters, you know

No, they just were never a source of real fear to Western Europe.

559 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:23:02pm

Yawn.

Meanwhile, G. Gordon Liddy, he of “if the president wants it, it’s not a crime” fame, was on the radio yesterday saying that we’d better hope that “illegal-alien-speaking” (i.e. Hispanophone) beeyotch Sotomayor isn’t menstruating when she hands down legal opinions from the bench.

That’s right: Apparently only monolingual post-menopausal wimmin need apply.

What’s worse? Muslim roots or sexist poots?

For me it’s the latter.

560 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:23:08pm

re: #552 Dianna

Approximately 20% of the population, so says the Black Book. In percentage terms, it could be said that Pol Pot took the prize.

He also takes the prize for petty and arbitrary. Wearing glasses was “intellectual” and would get a person whacked.

561 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:23:15pm

re: #550 Dianna

There were plenty of useful idiots, but Duranty got the by-line.

562 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:23:24pm

re: #490 Charles

We have the first down-dinger on this article: Marianne.

I bet Ginger wouldn’t ding it down.

563 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:23:40pm

re: #558 SanFranciscoZionist

No, they just were never a source of real fear to Western Europe.

If Joe Stalin was not a source of fear to Western Europe, they were not paying attention.

564 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:23:53pm

re: #553 Van Helsing

You’re correct of course about the patrolling.
I was thinking of Gaza becoming the launchpad for Hamas’ merry bands of rocketeers.

The Western World has to bear some blame for that. Supporting Fatah, Hamas, and all the rest and also tieing Israel’s hands in retaliating.

565 Gella  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:23:57pm

re: #560 jcm

He also takes the prize for petty and arbitrary. Wearing glasses was “intellectual” and would get a person whacked.

excuse me, please tell me its a joke?

566 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:24:04pm

re: #554 Occasional Reader

The “Taliban”, per se, were a post-1990 phenomenon.

Made up of many Mujahideen fighters though.

567 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:24:07pm

Speaking of Taliban - I’ll mention again that I recommend Lone Survivor by Navy SEAL Marcus Luttrell.

568 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:24:26pm

re: #529 HoosierHoops

((((((Hoops))))))

569 NY Nana  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:24:49pm

re: #440 Occasional Reader

Yeah, those settlements are the real problem, of course.

/oh, please

Thank you. And I will not call them settlements; they are towns, etc. in Israel, built on Israeli land. Hussein does not have any right to give even one grain of sand away. Not one.

Actually, it is no man’s to give away. But Hussein & Shrillary, like Condi Rice and any number of Sec. of States think it is theirs to do with what they wish.

Jimmy the Jew hater must be salivating over this….and you can substitute Hussein for Jimmy in this:

Youtube Video
570 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:24:49pm

re: #553 Van Helsing

You’re correct of course about the patrolling.
I was thinking of Gaza becoming the launchpad for Hamas’ merry bands of rocketeers.

True, although there was trouble with that before the pullout. Ah, hell, I’m glad I don’t make these decisions.

571 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:24:57pm
572 Guanxi88  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:24:57pm

re: #565 Gella

excuse me, please tell me its a joke?

No, that’s not a joke. He was also convinced that the CIA and the Vietnamese Communists were conspiring against his regime. Many spies for that axis were executed.

573 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:25:10pm

re: #568 MandyManners

Ain’t he cool?

574 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:25:40pm

re: #562 MandyManners

I bet Ginger wouldn’t ding it down.

Marianne (one model therefor)

Nothing about her makes me dinger go down.

575 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:25:41pm

re: #539 Occasional Reader

HH, you’re a class act. I completely agree… I will not attack the Obama’s personal relationship or family life, and have no basis for doing so.

You are too kind..Thanks

576 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:25:45pm

re: #565 Gella

excuse me, please tell me its a joke?

Nope.

During their four years in power, the Khmer Rouge overworked and starved the population, at the same time executing selected groups who had the potential to undermine the new state (including intellectuals or even those that had stereotypical signs of learning, such as glasses) and killing many others for even minor breaches of rules.

577 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:25:57pm

re: #565 Gella

excuse me, please tell me its a joke?

No, it’s not. Sorry.

578 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:26:17pm

re: #563 Occasional Reader

If Joe Stalin was not a source of fear to Western Europe, they were not paying attention.

Not in the same way, he wasn’t. I’m not sure I can articulate this. Let me think.

579 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:26:40pm

re: #570 SanFranciscoZionist

I’ll toast to that!
Pretty good odds that nobody will be dying based on what we type here.

580 J.S.  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:26:42pm

re: #554 Occasional Reader

Yes, back in the 90’s (and earlier) they were referred to as the “Afghan Mujahideen” or “freedom fighters” — that terrorist Khadr and his family considered themselves to be one…

581 Gella  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:27:24pm

re: #576 jcm

Nope.

During their four years in power, the Khmer Rouge overworked and starved the population, at the same time executing selected groups who had the potential to undermine the new state (including intellectuals or even those that had stereotypical signs of learning, such as glasses) and killing many others for even minor breaches of rules.

that is actually true, a lot of it happen during Stalin years and before him, they needed to create a little reason to get rid of unwanted.

582 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:27:52pm

China, Russia Delay United Nations Action on Sanctions Against North Korea Over Nuclear Test

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Hey Obama. Stop playing kissie face with your Muslim pals and get your ass back here and deal with reality!

583 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:27:57pm

They really still think Øbama is Muslim?
I guess they need prop up their birth certificate ..spiracy & all, and bein Muslim fits.
Moronic maroons!

584 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:28:06pm

re: #558 SanFranciscoZionist

No, they just were never a source of real fear to Western Europe.

flawed sarcasm…the point is the liberal idealogs that write the books tend to gloss over these huge genocidal numbers…and Stalin was certainly a tgreat to Europe imo

585 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:28:48pm

re: #388 albusteve

did you seek out and experience radical Islam?…did he?…he sought out other avenues of anti American ideology….I want to here his doubletalk that’s all


Like I said before: the problem is that you’re looking for something that isn’t there. Did I seek out radical Islam? Yes. Last year when I was In Mauritius I tried to buy some extremist DVD’s from a stall outside a mosque (I forget the exact titles but I wrote about it at the time). The vendor took the DVD’s out of my hand and said “Not for you.”
Did Obama seek out radical Islam? He left Indonesia when he was what? 8? 9? I seriously doubt it. There’s no double talk here. He was a child and probably wasn’t signing up for martyrdom missions.

586 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:28:52pm

For sure the masses ARE asses but I still trust the first 2000 names in the phone book more than the faculty of Harvard…

587 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:28:59pm

re: #529 HoosierHoops

No my friend
But I think that is unfair to any couple..Relationships are so complex and it is never fair for us to judge them…
The Baracks have done just fine as a couple in my most humble opinion..
I refuse to allow our politic views to become a personal destructive view..
I really think they love each other..With all their hearts with 2 wonderful little girls..I can seperate that from politics..
Love you guys..I’ve gone all soft tonight….

So why were Bill and Hillary judged by what was going on in their marriage?
We are also judging the Obama by saying that their marriage is good just because of some photo ops and a well placed hand on a knee during an interview. You are seeing what Obama wants you to see. In Chicago we know differently.

Ok, I cannot believe I am defending something I said about Obama and the woman who goes to NYC while Chicago is getting shot up. Does he know that there are operas and shows here. Golly gee, he could have stopped off at the Rally against Violence that we had on the West side.

I passed his home today. Chicago police cars -4 of them -sitting outside. Guarding an empty home too bad they were not there to help the 8 people killed last weekend and the 27 year old cop that was shot in the head who died yesterday.

588 J.S.  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:29:03pm

re: #555 Dianna

Will do…(“Disinformation” is now on my reading list..Thanks for the tip.)

589 NY Nana  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:29:18pm

re: #534 fuad al’razi

Neither do I, but we are Jews who voted for McCain. And a lot of those in our family, and friends also, gave me, especially, a lot of grief.

Now? They are strangely silent, and never mention his name. Sadly, buyers’ remorse is of no help.

590 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:29:46pm

re: #585 Killgore Trout

Heh, I also got thrown out of a mosque on that trip too.
/Memories

591 jaunte  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:29:53pm

re: #474 Charles

Reading the ‘progressive evangelical’ Matthew 25 PAC website; there’s an interesting essay.

Last Thursday, I wrote about Manichaean rhetoric from the Right in America, and how it’s poisoning our politics by making political disagreements into questions of good and evil rather than questions of the common good. One of the things I wrote was this: “If every matter of public policy is another battleground in the ultimate war between Good and Evil, then compromise anywhere, on any matter, is sin.”
— James G. Gilmore


The Murder of Dr. George Tiller and the Manichaean Worldview

592 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:29:54pm

Whew, finally got to end of thread. Flat out with isses, Father-in-law in IC with acute liver failure and being an absolute a-hole to my Mother-in-law who is dear sweet thing.

I dont think O will make any progress in the ME other than continue to make conciliatory noises about how the US is islams friend. IF any ME country agrees to recognise Israel it will only be a front. Islam is determined to destroy Israel. They will fail, irrespective of any battles than may ensue.

593 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:30:44pm

re: #590 Killgore Trout

Heh, I also got thrown out of a mosque on that trip too.
/Memories

I got thrown out of a Muslim Cemetery in Jerusalem.

594 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:30:46pm

re: #568 MandyManners

((((((Hoops))))))

Hey you!
After the funeral at 11 am they told all us to have full tanks..Thousands of policeman and family and friends and driving through every street in Speedway.. As a tribute to our fallen hero..Sgt. Alan Jones…
I have cried most of the last 2 days Mandy…I’ll be back to normal soon..
But this really hurts Mandy

595 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:31:26pm

I just got a copy of The Whisperers: Private Life in Stalin’s Russia today. I’ll let you know what I think when I finish it.

596 Gella  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:31:30pm

re: #587 Afrocity

he just doesn’t care, he never cared when he was in Chicago, he just wanted to be famous

597 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:31:34pm

re: #565 Gella

No.

A family freind of ours married a woman from Cambodia who survived the Khmer Rouge. I think she modelled for soda ads on billboards or something ‘counter-revolutionary’ before Pol Pot began his extermination campagin in earnest.

She doesn’t talk about it much, and none of us press the issue, but she lost almost her whole family and at some point only evaded execution by playing dead in a ditch already full of corpses.

Seems so unfair that Pol Pot went quietly in his sleep after the hell he visited on millions of Cambodians.

598 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:31:53pm

re: #585 Killgore Trout

Like I said before: the problem is that you’re looking for something that isn’t there. Did I seek out radical Islam? Yes. Last year when I was In Mauritius I tried to buy some extremist DVD’s from a stall outside a mosque (I forget the exact titles but I wrote about it at the time). The vendor took the DVD’s out of my hand and said “Not for you.”
Did Obama seek out radical Islam? He left Indonesia when he was what? 8? 9? I seriously doubt it. There’s no double talk here. He was a child and probably wasn’t signing up for martyrdom missions.

I understood he went to Indonesia just prior or during his Columbia years…if not then it is a moot question I agree

599 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:32:09pm

re: #594 HoosierHoops

Hey you!
After the funeral at 11 am they told all us to have full tanks..Thousands of policeman and family and friends and driving through every street in Speedway.. As a tribute to our fallen hero..Sgt. Alan Jones…
I have cried most of the last 2 days Mandy…I’ll be back to normal soon..
But this really hurts Mandy

Hey. Be well. We’re all here for you.

600 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:32:38pm

re: #593 Nevergiveup

I got thrown out of a Muslim Cemetery in Jerusalem.

Well, heck, I got denied entrance to a synagogue in London.

601 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:32:56pm

re: #576 jcm

Nope.

During their four years in power, the Khmer Rouge overworked and starved the population, at the same time executing selected groups who had the potential to undermine the new state (including intellectuals or even those that had stereotypical signs of learning, such as glasses) and killing many others for even minor breaches of rules.

Had a Cambodian friend - film producer.

He and his entire family disappeared.

Unbelievable brutality and terror.

602 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:33:15pm

It will also be very interesting if O actually gets an invite to Medina, whether he accepts the invite. It would be a huge political and religious coup if he accepted. It would be seen within the islamic world as confirmation that they, (a) consider him a muslim and (b) he agrees with them.

603 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:33:32pm

re: #598 albusteve

albusteve … he did go to Pakistan around 1981 at a time when there were many troubles going on in that country and it was hard for Americans to even go there … but we were never allowed to ask about it … no specifics …

604 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:34:16pm

re: #345 American Sabra

AS … nice you quote from HuffTrash …

605 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:34:50pm

re: #594 HoosierHoops

Hey you!
After the funeral at 11 am they told all us to have full tanks..Thousands of policeman and family and friends and driving through every street in Speedway.. As a tribute to our fallen hero..Sgt. Alan Jones…
I have cried most of the last 2 days Mandy…I’ll be back to normal soon..
But this really hurts Mandy

Made the news in NZ. Tragic!

606 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:34:55pm

re: #603 JacksonTn

albusteve … he did go to Pakistan around 1981 at a time when there were many troubles going on in that country and it was hard for Americans to even go there … but we were never allowed to ask about it … no specifics …

that was it…I was/am confused a tad

607 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:35:02pm

re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, heck, I got denied entrance to a synagogue in London.

I can top that. They NEVER let me on the Temple Mount!

608 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:35:12pm
609 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:36:01pm

re: #593 Nevergiveup

I got thrown out of a Muslim Cemetery in Jerusalem.

Well, that’s ‘cause you’re not dead.

/

610 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:36:20pm

re: #607 Nevergiveup

I can top that. They NEVER let me on the Temple Mount!

Huh. Wonder why?

/////

Irshad Manji has been, though. Writes about it in her book.

611 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:36:28pm

re: #444 FurryOldGuyJeans

Was that before or after the Wahabi infiltration? The answer does make a difference.

Isn’t that the general Muslim position on children? Basically, the children belong to the father.

612 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:36:38pm

re: #609 Occasional Reader

Well, that’s ‘cause you’re not dead.

/


Or, for that matter, Muslim.

613 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:08pm

re: #607 Nevergiveup

I can top that. They NEVER let me on the Temple Mount!


I pray that one day, you will, and there be nothing and no-one to stop you.

614 wee fury  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:08pm

re: #587 Afrocity

Personal relationships can only be known to those involved. Speculation, conjecture and gossip stem from others.

615 Attaboid  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:17pm

He’s shy.

616 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:22pm

re: #590 Killgore Trout

Heh, I also got thrown out of a mosque on that trip too.
/Memories

I remember when you were heading out that way and wondered what you’d get up to…

Thrown out of a mosque eh? Forget to take off your shoes? Leering at the curtain hiding the covered women? General insouciance? Do tell!

617 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:27pm

re: #611 avspatti

Isn’t that the general Muslim position on children? Basically, the children belong to the father.

And Judaism and Christianity go the other, which makes mixed marriages fairly complicated.

618 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:45pm

re: #604 JacksonTn

I put on the waders and went there last night so I could clarify some of my own questions about unions teaming up with ‘progressive’ bloggers like KOS.

/A little depressing, actually.

619 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:47pm

Whoa!

Woman survives attempt at suicide by train
Jun. 2, 2009 12:00 PM
Associated Press

JERUSALEM - An Israeli woman laid herself on the tracks just before a train roared through a crossing in an apparent suicide attempt. But seconds after the train passed, she got up and walked away almost unhurt.

The incredible scene was captured on the closed circuit security TV system at the Kfar Vitkin level crossing in Israel’s north.

620 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:37:59pm

re: #236 big steve

I think Charles makes an important point here, do not underestimate how long Obama has been planning to run for President. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this other than when you look at his narrative, just remember this. Obama’s conversion to Christianity was extremely pragmatic.

So was Dubya’s.

621 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:38:00pm

all things considered, he just does not have the gravitas and strength of character to get the moslems to do what he wants w/ a peace deal.
they are still surveying him trying to figure out the best way to exploit his neediness and stupidity.

622 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:38:05pm

re: #610 SanFranciscoZionist

Huh. Wonder why?

/////

Irshad Manji has been, though. Writes about it in her book.


I was up there once and kinda felt out of place, so I never dressed to go up again.

623 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:38:26pm

re: #590 Killgore Trout

Heh, I also got thrown out of a mosque on that trip too.
/Memories

Well… right after I had lost my sunglasses, I found a pair of (pricey) Oakleys right smack in the middle of the floor of the Duomo in Florence.

NOW DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?!

624 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:38:43pm

whatever…
Cowboy Mouth

Youtube Video
625 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:39:15pm

re: #623 Occasional Reader

Well… right after I had lost my sunglasses, I found a pair of (pricey) Oakleys right smack in the middle of the floor of the Duomo in Florence.

NOW DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?!

God wears expensive sunglasses?

626 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:40:13pm

re: #625 SanFranciscoZionist

God wears expensive sunglasses?

Well he probably needs them for those times he is invited to dinner with Satan?

627 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:40:15pm

re: #587 Afrocity

Hey! I hope you are doing well!

628 Afrocity  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:40:32pm

re: #614 wee fury

Yes others who know the deal.

629 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:40:47pm

Spokes Reappear on Saturn’s Rings

630 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:40:48pm

re: #603 JacksonTn

albusteve … he did go to Pakistan around 1981 at a time when there were many troubles going on in that country and it was hard for Americans to even go there … but we were never allowed to ask about it … no specifics …

Nah, I went to Pakistan a couple of times from about ‘80 to ‘86. I lived in Delhi and we used to go up there to has swim competitions and baseball games with the American Embassy school up there. It was no big deal.

631 kahall  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:41:28pm

Way late as usual..guitar lessons

The comments for this article at ABC’s Political Punch blog are predictably wacko:


…
If I find myself having to to to ABC.com I avoid even glancing at the comments. They are ALWAYS wacko.

632 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:41:37pm

re: #592 A Kiwi Infidel

Whew, finally got to end of thread. Flat out with isses, Father-in-law in IC with acute liver failure and being an absolute a-hole to my Mother-in-law who is dear sweet thing.

I dont think O will make any progress in the ME other than continue to make conciliatory noises about how the US is islams friend. IF any ME country agrees to recognise Israel it will only be a front. Islam is determined to destroy Israel. They will fail, irrespective of any battles than may ensue.

{Kiwi} Hang in there!

633 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:41:48pm

re: #629 Racer X

Spokes Reappear on Saturn’s Rings

It’s the extraterrestrial baby elephants’ giant spaceship passing through.

/Footfall

634 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:41:57pm

re: #623 Occasional Reader

Went to the “Dollar Store” yesterday and bought two pairs of sunglasses (that way, when I break/lose them, I don’t cry) and found a pair of Foster Grants (nice ones actually) ten minutes later.

635 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:42:07pm

re: #605 A Kiwi Infidel

Made the news in NZ. Tragic!

I’m sorry…I am fucking crying my eyes out ..again..It’s been a tough couple of days..My boy made the news in NZ..I am so proud of him…I looked up to Alan like a big brother..and a close friend…Fuck it’s hard to post with tears blinding everything..
But I have a bunch of great stories to tell you guys about Alan..I’ll tell you all the sad from the funnier than hell stories..I know Charles..He’ll let me do it..
Thank you Charlles..God Bless you Alan

636 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:42:32pm

{Hoops}

637 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:43:16pm

re: #625 SanFranciscoZionist

God wears expensive sunglasses?


“G_d deserves the best” - Jim Bakker

638 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:43:38pm

re: #634 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Went to the “Dollar Store” yesterday and bought two pairs of sunglasses (that way, when I break/lose them, I don’t cry) and found a pair of Foster Grants (nice ones actually) ten minutes later.

Actually, I’ve mislaid my Oakleys. (Not the Divine Gift ones… I mislaid those a while ago.) In the market for good, polarized sport sunglasses, that also have a good ballistic rating for shooting sports.

639 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:43:41pm

Pittsburgh threw the Red Wings under the bus

640 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:43:46pm

re: #594 HoosierHoops

Hey you!
After the funeral at 11 am they told all us to have full tanks..Thousands of policeman and family and friends and driving through every street in Speedway.. As a tribute to our fallen hero..Sgt. Alan Jones…
I have cried most of the last 2 days Mandy…I’ll be back to normal soon..
But this really hurts Mandy

That sounds like a WONDERFUL celebration, of a good friend! And a nice tribute. Hang in there.

641 captdiggs  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:44:10pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

Churchill had some interesting observations on what he termed “Mohammedan” diplomacy.
Paraphrasing, it went something on the order of ” The Mohammedans have not the slightest idea of diplomatic discourse. Their idea of diplomacy is to make their demands known, and then, if not met, storm out of the tent”.


We shall all see how this goes.

642 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:44:40pm

Who’s the fat bastard in those Foster Gants?

643 kahall  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:45:02pm

re: #641 captdiggs

Have you ever heard a tent door slam. It’s scary.

644 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:45:48pm

Grants!

Akkkkk!

645 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:45:59pm

re: #601 Bobibutu

Had a Cambodian friend - film producer.

He and his entire family disappeared.

Unbelievable brutality and terror.

Family we knew in Iran, parents killed by the Mullahs, the daughter my age taken as wife by the local Mullah / Judge and died not long after, “mysteriously.”

646 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:46:11pm

I’m not a good person.

FZ’s ‘St. Alphonzo’s Pancake Breakfast’ just played and I thought of Rachel Corrie…

Someone ‘splain to me again why none of the so-called peace activists use their fragile asses to protect Israeli cities.

647 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:46:17pm

re: #632 Floral Giraffe

re: #635 HoosierHoops

I’m sorry…I am fucking crying my eyes out ..again..It’s been a tough couple of days..My boy made the news in NZ..I am so proud of him…I looked up to Alan like a big brother..and a close friend…Fuck it’s hard to post with tears blinding everything..
But I have a bunch of great stories to tell you guys about Alan..I’ll tell you all the sad from the funnier than hell stories..I know Charles..He’ll let me do it..
Thank you Charlles..God Bless you Alan


Thanks

OMG, so sorry, I didnt realise this was as close and personal as it was.

huge hug and and prayer for your comfort.


(((((HoosierHoops))))) from Kiwi

648 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:46:22pm

He’s not a Muslim…..He’s Hawaiian!
I saw his “Birth Certificate”.

/but he is a socialist that’s gunna’ get us killed.

649 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:47:07pm

re: #616 experiencedtraveller

Thrown out of a mosque eh? Forget to take off your shoes? Leering at the curtain hiding the covered women? General insouciance? Do tell!


I found the oldest mosque on the Island and went into the lobby. I was trying to figure out if they were Sunni, Shia or whatever. I lingered in the foyer for a bit looking at the bulletin board of community meeting and gatherings. No clues. I could tell people were watching me but it’s and Indian culture there. In India they’ll let you into most mosques as long as it’s not prayer time and you take off your shoes. As I started to walk up the the shoe removal area a guy in his 20’s came over and told me no tourists were allowed in because it was Ramadan. I think it was just a polite excuse and they probably wouldn’t have let me in anyways. Too bad because it looks like they had a really cool library with lots of old books with fancy bindings. The prayer area looked really cool too with on open cieling surrounded by balconies.

650 tradewind  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:47:34pm

This story bothers me less than the fact that BHO considers Iran justified in its desire to be a nuclear power…
You don’t put weapons of mass destruction into the hands of mad mullahs who believe that mass destruction is the gateway to salvation.

651 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:47:46pm

re: #619 FurryOldGuyJeans

Whoa!

Woman survives attempt at suicide by train
Jun. 2, 2009 12:00 PM
Associated Press

The video….

Liveleak Video
652 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:47:46pm

Sorry, Hoops, Floral giraffe got caught up in that post………

653 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:47:58pm

re: #641 captdiggs

Churchill had some interesting observations on what he termed “Mohammedan” diplomacy.
Paraphrasing, it went something on the order of ” The Mohammedans have not the slightest idea of diplomatic discourse. Their idea of diplomacy is to make their demands known, and then, if not met, storm out of the tent”.


We shall all see how this goes.

I’m not sure how much of that perception may be based on a lack of mutual cultural understanding. Storming out of the tent may not have been the last move, but rather the first.

654 Mich-again  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:48:11pm

Here is a nice web page that points out Charles’ original point that the Obama campaign purposely concealed the facts. Either that or he is lying now. You pick. Fight the Smears: The truth about Barrack Obama’s faith.

Lie:
Barack Obama is a Muslim.

Truth:
Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim, and is a committed Christian. Further, this myth perpetuates unfortunate falsehoods about the Muslim-American community that are offensive to people of all faiths.

655 albusteve  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:48:17pm

Grace Potter and the Nocturnals
with Joe Satriani
red hot vid


Youtube Video
656 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:48:18pm

re: #649 Killgore Trout

I found the oldest mosque on the Island and went into the lobby. I was trying to figure out if they were Sunni, Shia or whatever. I lingered in the foyer for a bit looking at the bulletin board of community meeting and gatherings. No clues. I could tell people were watching me but it’s and Indian culture there. In India they’ll let you into most mosques as long as it’s not prayer time and you take off your shoes. As I started to walk up the the shoe removal area a guy in his 20’s came over and told me no tourists were allowed in because it was Ramadan. I think it was just a polite excuse and they probably wouldn’t have let me in anyways. Too bad because it looks like they had a really cool library with lots of old books with fancy bindings. The prayer area looked really cool too with on open cieling surrounded by balconies.

KT, that just sounds like something you would do! Kewl exploring!

657 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:48:40pm

re: #629 Racer X

Spokes Reappear on Saturn’s Rings

They’re here…………..

658 Attaboid  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:49:11pm

Taqqiya. or is it taqiyya? (sp)

659 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:49:17pm
Woman Survives Apparent Train Suicide

JERUSALEM (June 2) — An Israeli woman laid herself on the tracks just before a train roared through a crossing in an apparent suicide attempt. But seconds after the train passed, she got up and walked away almost unhurt. The incredible scene was captured on the closed circuit security TV system at the Kfar Vitkin level crossing in Israel’s north.

Mysterious ways.

660 Mich-again  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:50:10pm

re: #639 Alouette

Pittsburgh threw the Red Wings under the bus

Pittsburgh played a nice game. They deserved the win. How did you like the 7 guys on the ice for Pittsburgh for 20 seconds and the refs never saw it. I have never seen that happen without a penalty even in peewee hockey. Sheesh.

661 Van Helsing  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:50:21pm

re: #648 re: #654 Mich-again

Here is a nice web page that points out Charles’ original point that the Obama campaign purposely concealed the facts. Either that or he is lying now. You pick. Fight the Smears: The truth about Barrack Obama’s faith.

Politician lying? I’m… stunned.

662 Attaboid  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:50:39pm

re: #619 FurryOldGuyJeans

Maybe she should have been perpendicular.
/ugh

663 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:51:04pm

re: #656 Floral Giraffe

A lot of Mosques will let you in. Sometimes you have to ask. In North Africa and the Middle East groups of men will hang out by the gates outside to make sure you don’t even enter the property. But a lot of places in Asia, India and America will not only let you in but show you around and answer questions. They’re actually pretty hospitable.

664 caboose  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:51:11pm

And right on cue, the Muslima.com ad pops up at the top of this thread. It’s like, like they know…

Sorry Muslima.com, Whacky-Baracky 0 already snagged himself a squeeze. The rest of us in-fi-dels ain’t interested (even if single)…

665 tradewind  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:51:16pm

re: #658 Attaboid

Think it’s one q, one y……

666 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:51:42pm

re: #641 captdiggs

I really enjoy doing business with Muslims. I know that the copious contracts, paperworks and details are simply nonsense. But I wholeheartedly participate in the game.

The deal is finalized when the money changes hands.

Everything up to that point is charade.

667 Attaboid  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:53:26pm

re: #665 tradewind

It’s all a lie…

668 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:53:31pm

Trivia item what’s the connection with the car and the animal in this picture ?:
trivia.

669 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:54:20pm

re: #647 A Kiwi Infidel

re: #635 HoosierHoops


Thanks

OMG, so sorry, I didnt realise this was as close and personal as it was.

huge hug and and prayer for your comfort.

(((((HoosierHoops))))) from Kiwi

My really close friend…I am crushed my friend…
There are only a few things you can believe on a blog..Trust me..The tears are red hot on my face… This loss is beyond my comprehension..

670 pingjockey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:54:24pm

OT, totally, The U of W women won the NCAA softball world series!
Barry is gonna go to Cairo and slam Israel under the bus.

671 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:55:13pm

re: #666 experiencedtraveller

I really enjoy doing business with Muslims. I know that the copious contracts, paperworks and details are simply nonsense. But I wholeheartedly participate in the game.

The deal is finalized when the money changes hands.

Everything up to that point is charade.

ET … I am not joking … I am asking a real question … is that like sharia finance? … or are you using regular contracts? …

672 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:55:31pm

re: #669 HoosierHoops

My really close friend…I am crushed my friend…
There are only a few things you can believe on a blog..Trust me..The tears are red hot on my face… This loss is beyond my comprehension..

Buddy… log off, seek the comfort of your family.

673 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:56:01pm

re: #493 JacksonTn

In the spinoffs there is a link to an interview that Obama gave recently … I don’t know if what he says is correct … can someone tell me? …

“And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world,” Mr. Obama said. “And so there’s got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples.”

How many muslims are in the United States? …

That can’t be true. What about Indonesia? China? etc.

674 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:56:44pm

re: #670 pingjockey

Hey, Ping!

Totally OT… you ever do any black box searches? Thought of you today when they found the Air France debris field.

675 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:57:09pm

re: #649 Killgore Trout

Ramadan… ahhhhh… That may explain it but your gut feeling may be right as well. Shame you couldn’t scope the old books…

676 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:57:56pm

re: #673 avspatti

That can’t be true. What about Indonesia? China? etc.

avspatti .. here is the link to the article :

Obama Says U.S. Could Be Seen as a Muslim Country, Too

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com…]

I am trying to find statistics … I don’t believe it either …

677 pingjockey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:58:17pm

re: #674 jcm
Nope. We were at Cape Canaveral whn the Challenger exploded but the ship wasn’t equipped for such ops.

678 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:58:28pm

Interview: Daris Long (William’s dad)

679 Mich-again  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:59:39pm

More campaign drivel about Obama ..

Indeed, rumors have circulated on blogs and comment boards since the fall, spurred by pictures of Mr. Obama in a turban, by talk of childhood time spent in Indonesia — a Muslim country — and by his middle name, Hussein, among other things.

Some experts say that such rumors are based in multi-layered bigotry.

Something there is multi-layered alright. The bullshit.

680 solomonpanting  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:59:47pm

re: #643 kahall

Have you ever heard a tent door slam. It’s scary.

“Late last night
I heard the tent door slam
Then a big yellow camel
Departed in the ways of Islam”

681 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:00:20pm
682 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:00:50pm

re: #645 jcm

Family we knew in Iran, parents killed by the Mullahs, the daughter my age taken as wife by the local Mullah / Judge and died not long after, “mysteriously.”

All of the girls I met - no matter the Islamic country - just wanted to hook up with a foreign guy and leave the country.

Did you learn to read and speak Farsi?

683 tradewind  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:02:05pm

re: #674 jcm

I don’t know what happened to that airbus, but I just can’t believe it was lightening. I’ve worked more than one flight that has taken a lightening strike, and while sometimes it’s been deafeningly loud and bright, it doesn’t compromise the aircraft.

684 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:02:43pm

re: #674 jcm

Hey, Ping!

Totally OT… you ever do any black box searches? Thought of you today when they found the Air France debris field.

Estimates are upwards to 3 months (if they are lucky) and this will be the deepest search ever.

685 Jack Burton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:04:08pm
And no, this doesn’t mean he’s a “sekrit Muslim Manchurian candidate,”

but but… it doesn’t rule it out! He still could be Malcom X’s sekrit love child!

/pam

686 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:06:41pm

re: #671 JacksonTn

ET … I am not joking … I am asking a real question … is that like sharia finance? … or are you using regular contracts? …

Hi JacksonTn, I’m not commenting so much on ‘sharia finance’ but on the cultural realities of doing business in the Islamic World (mostly Persian Gulf area in my experience…)

Cross cultural business is very real and expertise in a particular region is a valuable asset. All sorts of simple mistakes can be avoided… Regards.

687 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:06:49pm

re: #682 Bobibutu

All of the girls I met - no matter the Islamic country - just wanted to hook up with a foreign guy and leave the country.

Did you learn to read and speak Farsi?

Fluently, I didn’t even have an American accent, I had a western Iran colloquial accent which blew their minds since I have blue eyes and obviously American.

I’m way out of practice.

688 JacksonTn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:07:37pm

re: #686 experiencedtraveller

ET … thanks for responding …

689 pingjockey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:07:39pm

re: #684 Bobibutu

IIRC, the ‘average’ depth in the area is over 12k feet. Special sub, gear etc…Huge job.

690 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:09:28pm

re: #559 Cato the Elder

How old is she?

691 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:10:16pm

re: #687 jcm

Fluently, I didn’t even have an American accent, I had a western Iran colloquial accent which blew their minds since I have blue eyes and obviously American.

I’m way out of practice.

Ha - way cool - had to be fun.

692 Macker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:10:42pm

So Charles, what if БХО confesses that he IS a Muslim? What should we do?

693 calcajun  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:11:10pm

re: #394 Charles

It’s going to get very interesting if he actually succeeds, and several major Arab countries recognize the existence of the state of Israel.

It certainly will make a lot of people who study eschatology very, very nervous.

694 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:11:32pm

re: #691 Bobibutu

Ha - way cool - had to be fun.

Was in the AF when the Embassy went down. Fluent in Persian, knew Tehran like the back of my hand, tried like hell to volunteer. Nothing.

695 pingjockey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:13:26pm

re: #694 jcm
Hey, the UDub girls won the softball championship.

696 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:13:36pm

re: #689 pingjockey

IIRC, the ‘average’ depth in the area is over 12k feet. Special sub, gear etc…Huge job.

Yes - I envy all getting to play with the hi tech stuff.

697 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:14:23pm

re: #695 pingjockey

Hey, the UDub girls won the softball championship.

Cool! Hadn’t checked on that yet today.

698 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:15:51pm

re: #683 tradewind

I don’t know what happened to that airbus, but I just can’t believe it was lightening. I’ve worked more than one flight that has taken a lightening strike, and while sometimes it’s been deafeningly loud and bright, it doesn’t compromise the aircraft.

Airplanes just don’t come apart at FL40, not since the Comet. This wasn’t a high cycle plane like that Hawaii 737 20 years ago.

699 pingjockey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:16:05pm

I gonna go up.

700 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:16:07pm

re: #490 Charles

Oh man, and here all these years I’ve been saying Mary Ann instead of Ginger! Do I have to choose Ginger now? I REALLY liked Mary Ann!

701 JohnH  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:16:53pm

re: #381 Charles

Like no one has ever tried this before .

The whole thing seems crazy to me because he’s trying to force Israel to make peace with a group of people that can’t even make peace with each other.

As for Turkey, you should note George Friedman’s (Stratfor) comments about its emergence: “When the Muslim world organizes, it always organizes around Turkey.”

702 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:16:57pm

re: #694 jcm

Was in the AF when the Embassy went down. Fluent in Persian, knew Tehran like the back of my hand, tried like hell to volunteer. Nothing.

Stupidity knows no bounds. Sometimes it takes who you know vs what you know. Shame.

703 EmoryKid10  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:18:32pm

I’m actually intrigued by km’s “sunni prophecy” comment among the “wackos.” Not saying it’s valid, but it was still interesting just to read and I’m wondering if it’s a hogwash the guy pulled outta thin air or if any part of km’s “prophecy” is substantiable.

704 huckfunn  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:20:27pm

re: #650 tradewind

I just hope (in a hope’n’change kinda way) that as Obama is apologizing to the muslim world, he’ll maybe throw in a couple of lines about the tens of millions of muslims that the USA has saved from tyranny in Bosnia, Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan… at the cost of thousands of American lives. He could maybe even ask how many muslims have died for an American.

705 captdiggs  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:20:39pm

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m not sure how much of that perception may be based on a lack of mutual cultural understanding. Storming out of the tent may not have been the last move, but rather the first.

Think Arafat and Camp David.
Churchill’s near 80 year old observation in action.

I don’t believe the arabs will give anything because at the heart of this, it’s not about land, it’s a religious war that has been ongoing since the 7th century.
I don’t believe the arabs can give anything because to do so is against the tenets of Islam, primarily the obligation to expand the Ummah.
I’m a firm believer that there will be no real peace ( and not just for Israel) until there is a religious reformation within Islam.

706 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:21:07pm

re: #698 jcm

Airplanes just don’t come apart at FL40, not since the Comet. This wasn’t a high cycle plane like that Hawaii 737 20 years ago.

Yeah - there is an article in lefigaro

[Link: www.lefigaro.fr…]

“A bomb may well
have detonated the plane’

I haven’t xlated yet.

707 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:21:47pm

re: #604 JacksonTn

AS … nice you quote from HuffTrash …

FYI, I was quoting from an article that Last Mochican linked to at #153 and asked me to look at.

708 Macker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:21:47pm

re: #705 captdiggs

And if it doesn’t happen…?

709 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:24:18pm

re: #683 tradewind

I don’t know what happened to that airbus, but I just can’t believe it was lightening. I’ve worked more than one flight that has taken a lightening strike, and while sometimes it’s been deafeningly loud and bright, it doesn’t compromise the aircraft.

Flightlevel390 blog

Usually, it is a non-event causing only minor damage or none at all. However, if an aircraft is in the vicinity of a very large thunderstorm, it could be struck by a super bolt of lightning wreaking total havoc with disastrous results.

A thunderstorm is a violent and scary entity. It has the power, and I mean real power, to easily rip the wings from an A330, or any other make or model of aircraft. No problem whatsoever.

I will put forward two scenarios that may have happened to this jet:

First- Struck by a super bolt which fried the electronics causing depressurization, loss of electrical power and finally, a high altitude upset in IFR conditions (dark, turbulent, scary) leading to catastrophe.

Second- Encountered severe turbulence between or in thunderstorms. Airframe damage and/or failure leads to depressurization, loss of electrical power and finally, disaster.

Whatever happened, it was not pretty. The pax were terrified and the pilots were surely fighting until impact.

An A330 has crashed in the Atlantic… That fact is unbelievable.

Life on the Line continues…

710 captdiggs  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:26:56pm

re: #708 Macker

And if it doesn’t happen…?

Things continue as they have for the last 1400 odd years.

711 Macker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:31:27pm

re: #710 captdiggs

Things continue as they have for the last 1400 odd years.

Actually, they’ll do something so outrageous that Every Arab and Muslim capital could end up as radioactive slag.
Including the (un)holy sites.

712 avspatti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:32:44pm

re: #660 Mich-again

Pittsburgh played a nice game. They deserved the win. How did you like the 7 guys on the ice for Pittsburgh for 20 seconds and the refs never saw it. I have never seen that happen without a penalty even in peewee hockey. Sheesh.

Well, we know that the refs are blind, don’t we? Was Magoux (sp) involved? LOL (I know he has retired … I hope.)

713 jcm  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:33:41pm

re: #709 razorbacker

Could be anything at this point.

714 Lynn B.  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:34:14pm

re: #122 Afrocity

I never said I would not break bread with someone that voted for Obama. I would never get a date in this city if that were the case. I said they would not get a seat at my dinner table, meaning I would never cook them a delicious meal with my hands.

(mom always said never piss off the person who cooks your food)

Well, we’re going to be cooking a (hopefully) delicious meal later this week for a couple that I’m absolutely sure voted by Obama. They’re very nice people, although we disagree with them on some issues and they get 95% of their news from NPR. They just might leave here a little better informed. And who knows? If they eat enough delicious meals here over the next three years, we might have them voting for … someone else in 2012.

715 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:36:16pm

For historical completeness on the Obama never a Muslim discussion, the official Obama campaign site addresses the issue (see link below). Notice that even on this official site Robert Gibbs, an aide to President Obama is quoted, rather than President Obama making a direct statement.

[Link: www.barackobama.com…]

716 insomniac  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:37:00pm
Suddenly, now that it’s politically opportune, Barack Obama is no longer shy about admitting he has Muslim roots.

We had several posts about this at LGF during the campaign, of course. And no, this doesn’t mean he’s a “sekrit Muslim Manchurian candidate,” but it is a revealing look at the political maneuvering Obama did to get elected

There was never any secret about it; his father was a muslim which automatically makes him a muslim according to muslim law. His mother, who was supposedly a christian, doesn’t have to convert to become a muslim. But it is very common for a muslim man to coerce his would-be christian bride to convert to become a muslim. He is doing a “good deed”

However a christian man who wants to marry a muslim woman HAS to convert to become a muslim.

His step father was a muslim too. At least one of his school records in indonesia has him registered as a muslim.

717 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:37:21pm

re: #603 JacksonTn

Proof?

718 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:40:21pm

re: #713 jcm

To clarify, those aren’t my words. They’re the words of a A320 pilot.

719 Koyaanistaaqa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:41:52pm

These are some of the key findings of the Pew Forum’s U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, which draws primarily on a new nationwide survey conducted from May 8 to Aug. 13, 2007:

Report 1: Religious Affiliation
Christian: 78.4%
Other Religions: 4.7% (Including Muslim: 0.6%)
Unaffilliated: 16.1%
Don’t Know/Refused: 0.8%

Pew had another estimate in a 2008 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey,” where it finds the U.S.-based Muslim population to be 0.6 percent of the total. Given that latter is about 300 million, the Muslim population would be about 1.8 million.

Given that the world population is 6,790,062,216 (July 2009 est.), of which 21.01 percent are Muslim (2007 est.), the U.S. Muslim population would be about 0.13 percent of the total world Muslim population (1,426,592,072).

Even if the U.S.-based Muslim population was the generous 1.5% cited by Wiki, the U.S. would still rank 38th worldwide.

720 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:45:47pm

re: #658 Attaboid

It’s tequila.

721 Koyaanistaaqa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:51:31pm

re: #719 Koyaanistaaqa

These are some of the key findings of the Pew Forum’s U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, which draws primarily on a new nationwide survey conducted from May 8 to Aug. 13, 2007:

Report 1: Religious Affiliation
Christian: 78.4%
Other Religions: 4.7% (Including Muslim: 0.6%)
Unaffilliated: 16.1%
Don’t Know/Refused: 0.8%

Pew had another estimate in a 2008 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey,” where it finds the U.S.-based Muslim population to be 0.6 percent of the total. Given that latter is about 300 million, the Muslim population would be about 1.8 million.

Given that the world population is 6,790,062,216 (July 2009 est.), of which 21.01 percent are Muslim (2007 est.), the U.S. Muslim population would be about 0.13 percent of the total world Muslim population (1,426,592,072).

Even if the U.S.-based Muslim population was the generous 1.5% cited by Wiki, the U.S. would still rank 38th worldwide.

Apologies for some broken links in original post. Redirect is not functioning even after changing to https URLs. References may be verified in the CIA’s “The World Factbook”
[Link: www.cia.gov…]

722 tradewind  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:51:45pm

re: #698 jcm

They had a bomb threat… Air France… Just coming out with the news.

723 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:55:40pm

re: #693 calcajun

I thought of that too. I have numerous “left behind” friends who would see the recognition of Israel by several Islamic nations as “prufe!” that Obama is the anti-Christ. Hell, they thought that before the election. What’s gonna stop em now? I know how “end timey” thinking goes, I used to breath that air. Every headline is a harbinger of the end. After all, “our generation” is the one scripture talks about! Ya know, just like every other generation that’s EVER lived. ugh.

724 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:57:36pm

re: #722 tradewind

They had a bomb threat… Air France… Just coming out with the news.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

725 jcbunga  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:06:06pm

I know elections have consequences, but who’d a thunk it. This guy is on a pace to out-Carter Jimmuh.

“But let me be very clear…”

726 sngnsgt  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:12:28pm
Suddenly, now that it’s politically opportune, Barack Obama is no longer shy about admitting he has Muslim roots…

Oh that Islam…? Well, I, e, er, ah, I, umm, ahh…

727 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:14:26pm

re: #724 Bobibutu

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Oh my…oh no.

728 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:35pm

re: #12 Ming

I think we all understand that President Obama has a background that’s quite different from previous Presidents, and quite different from many other Americans. So what? Diversity can be a good thing. Thus far, the President seems to be working his butt off trying to stabilize the economy, and he seems eager to make progress on a variety of issues. I certainly have my disagreements with him. Actually, I’m very unhappy at the way he has favored the United Auto Workers, who will continue their decades-long shakedown operations, this time directly from the federal treasury. But I can point to disagreements I would have had with all other previous Presidents as well. Obama has a Muslim background from his father’s family, and a Christian background from his mother’s family (actually, it appears that neither of his parents was especially involved with their religion). His background includes Kansas, Hawaii, and Chicago. He’s part of the amazing diversity of the 50 states. Nothing wrong with that.

The point is, The President’s a Poseur.

*way late, I know…*

729 el polacko  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:46:33pm

y’know, i wouldn’t really care what his religious affiliation is (i’d prefer if he had none) if it wasn’t for the way this subject was wielded as a weapon during the campaign. i once had “racist!” screamed in my face for, actually quite innocently, using the candidate’s full name. now, only a few months later, his ‘roots’ are a badge of honor and only a ‘racist’ could deny that. damned if you do, damned if you don’t, damned no matter what you say, depending on which way the devotee wind is blowing that day. it’s a nasty tactic used to preemptively quash any possible criticism of the great leader’s duplicity…scary stuff.

730 bullskin  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 2:07:02am

Either this is a real or on purpose gaffe, he is lying:

…my muslim faith.. er, my Christian faith

731 ashan  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 4:07:06am

BHO is so full of Taqiya, he’s really started to seriously stumble all over himself publicly. His skein of lies is unraveling very fast. I just don’t see where, at this rate, he’ll be able to last another 3.5 years. (And I certainly hope not.) He’s destroying America and taking its allies with it in a terrible downward spiral.

His sermon in Cairo will be a frightening affair for many of us.

732 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 6:29:41am

re: #516 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am very upset. Had I known this information, I might not have voted for him.

Apparently, Obama also had some sort of connection to the corrupt Chicago political machine. Who knew?

733 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 6:40:21am

re: #66 Charles

Obama & his mother moved to Indonesia in 1967, following the anti-Communist purge of 1965-66, in which some 500,000 people were murdered. This puzzles me: who would move their young child to such a country at such a time?

734 Land Shark  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 8:31:16am

One of the reasons I call Obama Fraudbama is that he got himself elected on false pretenses. There is a pattern of deception and hiding information from the public I’ve never seen before from a public figure, let alone someone elected to our highest office. They hide his Muslim roots until it’s politically expedient, for example. He campaigned as a moderate but we know what he’s governing as. His birth certificate and grades in college are not released. His long list of associations with leftist radicals starting with his parents. I could go on.

And the MSM displays not the slightest curiosity, you know quite well if Obama was a Republican he would have gotten a rectal exam the likes of which would make proctologists sue them for practicing medicine without a license. Combine that with the revolting, fawning cult of personality the media and substantial parts of the American public have for this man, and surreal doesn’t begin to explain it. What is it about Obama that causes people’s brains not to function in a normal fashion?

735 n2stox  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 9:01:32am

This pisses me off. Not that Obama lied. He’s been doing that “Chicago Way” thing for years.

It’s the sins of ommission by services calling themselves “news.”

I’m extra pissed of this week because some Muslim jihadist shot up a military recruiting center.

On top of that, my wife and I had 2 of her lib friends over for dinner on Sunday, and the guy thought it was perfectly alright for the government to nationalize wherever they saw fit. I went to task on him for that for about 45 minutes (we were rotissering a chicken, so we had the time). His reply of “I’d like to hear more on that. I never thought of that” was heard at least 4 times.

Then, we’re at the frickin’ dinner table and the wife (his, not mine) starts talking about how cute a Che shirt would be for our 21 month old boy. I had had a couple of glasses of wine and I almost went completely ballistic. I calmly said “No, my boy doesn’t need to advertise a murderer who cut people’s heads off for their political beliefs.”

Her reply “Maybe some of them needed it.”

Now this complete leftist smokescreen on Obama. These people know no bounds. They will stop at nothing to get their agenda done. Nothing. Right there at my dinner table I had a lat 30s woman condoning the murder committed by Che. And, she’s from Chile so she should frickin’ know better, but, as the White House would say “We won.”

I could sit there for years explaining what Obama was doing to destroy us and our allies, and her reply would probably be the same “Maybe that’s what was needed.”

Well, I’m not taking it. I’m hanging my Gadsden flag up this weekend and I’m going to find sane conservatives to support. I cannot sit back and just hope things run their course. For months I was telling myself “Oh just sit this one out, Obama will do enough to fail so we won’t have to put as much energy into things.”

I think I’m correct on the first part, but my first hand witnessing of how his acoloytes think makes me rethink the 2nd part.

736 n2stox  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 9:08:51am

Oh, and one more thing:

I know we frequently rail on Limbaugh/Savage/Hannity/Ingraham.

I for one don’t listen to any of them. We need them on this. There is no other way to reach people with ideas and news that would never be heard otherwise. Those 4 alone probably reach 20-30 million+ people per week.

Take Geithner’s speech in China yesterday. It was met with raucous laughter. Laughter! He stated that China’s dollar assets are safe, and the crowd erupts into laughter! Hear that in any MSM production?

It’s all over the European papers. We’re now being laughed at.

737 Land Shark  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 9:11:56am

re: #735 n2stox

May I recommend a Che t-shirt from Che Mart? They have a great selection of shirts poking fun at the bastard. Go to [Link: www.che-mart.com…] and enjoy. I’m sure the woman from Chile would just love the one that says “Comunista Comemierda”, “Shit-eating Communist” in English. :-)

738 landline  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 9:14:13am

re: #11 ihateronpaul

Anti-Muslim racism? Since when has Islam been a race? Or does throwing around the “r” word make you feel superior? This is becoming quite a progressive blog.

739 Gus  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 9:34:25am

On October 6, 2008 during a campaign rally featuring Sarah Palin, Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott said, “On Nov. 4, let’s leave Barack Hussein Obama wondering what happened.” What followed was a national flurry and outrage in some circles. CBS’s “From the Road” reported it as Fla. Sheriff Plays The “Hussein” Card At Palin Event; Campaign Calls Remark “Inappropriate.” This lead to the following statement from a Palin campaign staffer:

“We do not condone this inappropriate rhetoric which distracts from the real questions of judgment, character, and experience that voters will base their decisions on this November.”

President Obama’s middle name Hussein is a double edged sword. It can be used as a political tool as is the case during this week visit to the Middle East and against those that dare utter his middle name and thus deemed inappropriate rhetoric and if seen in this ever contextualizing society as being clearly the signs of a bigot: hate speech, the H-word.

This weeks paints a different portrait of the use of his middle name Hussein. For the events at hand and the political advantage that can be utilized by the use of Hussein we find that news outlets and blogs such as CBS, NBC, and even The Huffington Post have given the green light for uttering Hussein. In this weeks media campaign under the guise of outreach to the Muslim World the name has become in the context of an ideology and mindset: empowering. It has a sort of built-in empathy component.

One can only conclude that if used in the correct context as seen by a polite society and within a Middle Eastern audience or topic than the name is acceptable. You will not see a media run themselves into a frenzy with calls for apologies from those that dared utter the name Hussein. Such are the endeavor of humankind to engage in these trivialities in which a literal semantic political war is being engaged. They “own” the name Hussein and unless you are “on their side” the mere wording of that name will lead to accusations of bigotry.

Immediately following Sherif Scott’s appearance he was placed under Federal investigation. Allegedly it is being done under the HATCH Act for him wearing a uniform during his speech. Mike Scott remains under investigation.

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
740 SlothB77  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 9:57:19am
In September 2008, candidate Obama told a Pennsylvania crowd, “I know that I’m not your typical presidential candidate and I just want to be honest with you. I know that the temptation is to say, ‘You know what? The guy hasn’t been there that long in Washington. You know, he’s got a funny name. You know, we’re not sure about him.’

And that’s what the Republicans when they say this isn’t about issues, it’s about personalities, what they’re really saying is, ‘We’re going to try to scare people about Barack. So we’re going to say that, you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections.’…Just making stuff up.”

Charles,

Obama accused people who said he had Muslim connections of making stuff up. Doesn’t that upset you now that your accusations have been confirmed?

741 Neo_  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 10:29:53am

In admitting that the US is a Muslim country has Obama repudiated the accomplishments of Battle of Tours in 732 and, in effect, given the appearance of accepting the extension the caliphate to include North America to the Muslim world ?

742 Hawaii69  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 12:08:31pm

re: #187 Wendya

Actually, if you look at his economic policies, he was very left wing and those policies were lauded by the left. Of course, the left had a love affair going with the worst dictators of the 20th century so it’s no surprise that the left is now claiming they were all right-wingers.

That, is absolutely ridiculous. Nazism was a right wing, ultra nationalist movement. To claim that there was it was otherwise, especially in the context of what “Left” and “Right” meant 60-70 years ago, is ridiculous.

Who is claiming that “they were all right wingers”?

There’s someone being both a generalist, and a revisionist, in this conversation…..and it’s not me.

743 Land Shark  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 1:28:05pm

re: #742 Hawaii69

You need to read up on the history of Nazi Germany. The Nazis borrowed heavily from both the left and right. Many in the Nazi movement were actually ex-Communists who joined because of the ultra-nationalistic flavor of the movement. They believed the “Socialist” part of the National Socialist name, many even believed they were like the Communists except nationalist. And many of the policies of the National Socialist German Workers party were similar to those proposed by Communists and Socialists. Hitler in many of his speeches before taking power spent a good deal of time railing against capitalism and the rich industrialists, which is why so many were disappointed when Hitler assumed power and started paling around with the industrialists he needed to pull off his schemes. Kinda like someone we know?

The Nazis may seem right wing from a distance, but in fact incorporated and borrowed ideas, methods and philosophies from the Communists. Indeed, many in the Nazi terror apparatus admired and spent a lot of time studying the methods of the KGB and of the Communists in Germany. I wouldn’t go as far as to call them left wing, but to call them right wing, as so many do, doesn’t add up if you read the actual history.

744 Hawaii69  Wed, Jun 3, 2009 3:29:12pm

re: #743 Land Shark

You need to read up on the history of Nazi Germany. The Nazis borrowed heavily from both the left and right. Many in the Nazi movement were actually ex-Communists who joined because of the ultra-nationalistic flavor of the movement. They believed the “Socialist” part of the National Socialist name, many even believed they were like the Communists except nationalist. And many of the policies of the National Socialist German Workers party were similar to those proposed by Communists and Socialists. Hitler in many of his speeches before taking power spent a good deal of time railing against capitalism and the rich industrialists, which is why so many were disappointed when Hitler assumed power and started paling around with the industrialists he needed to pull off his schemes. Kinda like someone we know?

The Nazis may seem right wing from a distance, but in fact incorporated and borrowed ideas, methods and philosophies from the Communists. Indeed, many in the Nazi terror apparatus admired and spent a lot of time studying the methods of the KGB and of the Communists in Germany. I wouldn’t go as far as to call them left wing, but to call them right wing, as so many do, doesn’t add up if you read the actual history.


I read “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, by William Shirer. He gets knocked by a historians because he’s not
part of their club…..rather just as correspondent who was there at the time. It’s still a very comprehensive book.

Hitler did what forwarded his agenda. He hated the communists, the “Social Democrats” of the Weimar Republic. He hated socialists in general….yet he extolled “National Socialism”, because socialism was an attractive ideology at the time, and attracted followers.

My original post was about the people who vehemently claim that “Nazis = Socialist = Liberals” in their ignorant quest to connect German politics of 70 years ago to American politics of today. They seem to believe that the labeling of fascism as a Right Wing ideology as some kind of Left Wing revisionist plot.


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