Israeli Government Praises Obama Speech

Middle East • Views: 2,853

Benjamin Netanyahu and Ehud Barak are praising Barack Obama’s speech to the Muslim world: Israel: We hope Obama speech heralds new era in Mideast.

The Israeli government praised U.S. President Barack Obama’s speech to the Muslim world Thursday, saying it shared his hopes for Middle East peace, but stressed that Israel’s security interests remained paramount.

“We share President Obama’s hope that the American effort heralds the opening of a new era that will bring an end to the conflict and to general Arab recognition of Israel as the nation of the Jewish people that lives in security and peace in the Middle East,” an official statement said after Obama’s address in Cairo.

The statement made no mention of settlements, which Obama said should not be expanded, nor Palestinian statehood. At odds with Obama, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that construction would continue in existing settlements in the West Bank and he has not publicly endorsed a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Netanyahu’s bureau also released a statement Thursday affirming Israel’s desire to pursue peace, but in accordance with its national interests. “Israel is committed to peace and will do all it can to expand the circle of peace while considering its national interests, first and foremost being security,” the statement said.

Later Thursday, Defense Minster Ehud Barak echoed the comments in welcoming Obama’s address and reiterated Israel’s desire to pursue peace talks.

“In the speech there is reinforcement and encouragement for moderate elements and supporters of peace; there is also outspoken criticism of terrorism and [its] origins of violence and extremism that are threatening the stability of our region and the entire world,” said Barak in a statement.

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563 comments
1 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:54:45pm

So?

2 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:57:09pm

re: #1 Nevergiveup

Maybe it was a good speech. I thought it was a dopey thing to do but some people seem to like it.

3 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:58:12pm

re: #1 Nevergiveup

So?

Agree. Same old rhetoric, same old pronouncements, same old warnings, same old Muslim world. This speech is just an expensive strongly-worded letter, hand delivered, and with no more impact than that.

Hoping for some changes.

4 GenevaDan  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:59:02pm

Obama is foolish to offer Jerusalem to the Arabs. Israel will never relinquish Jerusalem.

5 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:59:07pm

I thought Obama’s speech was unintentionally hilarious…

6 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:59:41pm

Obama has been kicking Israel around a bit lately. He threw them a bone. They are throwing him one back.

7 captdiggs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:59:48pm

I wouldn’t expect a line by line critique from the Israelis.
They are far more pragmatic than Obama and know that there is little chance that a speech is going to change much, but they are also wise enough to know when not to get on his case.

8 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:04pm

really…what else can they say?…everybody plays the disconnect game sooner or later

9 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:08pm

Not all liked it.

MK Danny Danon (Likud): “The president has crossed all lines. His implied comparison between the Israeli government and the Nazi regime said everything. He has made a covenant with the Arab world and rewarded it for more than 60 years of aggression.”

MK Aryeh Eldad (National Union): “Obama makes a shocking parallel between the destruction of European Jewry and the suffering that the Arabs of Israel brought upon themselves when they declared war on Israel.”
MK Eldad: How dare Obama compare Arab refugee suffering to the six million Jews murdered in the Holocaust?

“If Obama does not understand the difference between them, perhaps he will understand it better when he visits the Buchenwald concentration camp in the comings days. And if he doesn’t understand it even there, then Islam will once again teach it to him, just as it taught his predecessor on 9/11.”

Regarding Obama’s praise of Islam, Eldad said, “Obama spoke more from his own heart and less from genuine understanding of the direction Islam is taking around the world. Whoever thinks that the establishment of a Palestinian state will stop the war in Darfur, India, Chechnya, and Europe will apparently soon learn that Israel is not willing to be the ‘pound of flesh’ that he wants to throw to the Muslims.”

MK Dr. Michael Ben-Ari (National Union) said: “The Zionist vision of the rebuilding of the Land of Israel is stronger than any president or government. We outlasted Pharaoh, and we will outlast Obama.”

SNIP

Col. (ret.) Moti Yogev told Channel One television news, “Obama’s speech was very professional and peace-seeking. But he quoted our Sages, which he attributed to the Quran, and the same Sages and sources have spoken of the Jewish People’s right to this Land. Just as he said that the State of Israel will not disappear, the same is true about the settlements in Judea and Samaria.”

Yogev added, “Though the speech was not inflammatory, I am sure that it will give a push to the settlement effort throughout Judea and Samaria, and we will grow even stronger than the five percent growth rate we already enjoy.”

10 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:09pm

The speech is one thing. The policy 0bama follows with regards to Israel will be another.

11 Kragar  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:10pm

Second verse, same as the first.

12 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:21pm

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Maybe it was a good speech. I thought it was a dopey thing to do but some people seem to like it.

What new ground did he break except to possibly legitimize Hamas and make some asinine comment about Jerusalem that some people are taking as a call to Internationalize Jerusalem, and to disavow the last 8 years of American foreign policy on foreign soil? Spit!

13 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:29pm

From Harry’s Place:

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org…]

A good speech.

…

Notably, this was a speech that given in front, not only of democrats like Ayman Noor, but also certain Muslim Brotherhood politicians. The last sentence was directed at them.

There is a section - too short a section - on freedom of religion. And I wonder if this is a boo boo.

Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance. We see it in the history of Andalusia and Cordoba during the Inquisition

Huh?

But this is a good point:

Likewise, it is important for western countries to avoid impeding Muslim citizens from practising religion as they see fit– for instance, by dictating what clothes a Muslim woman should wear. We cannot disguise hostility towards any religion behind the pretence of liberalism.

Nicely tied together with the point on womens’ rights:

I know there is debate about this issue. I reject the view of some in the west that a woman who chooses to cover her hair is somehow less equal, but I do believe that a woman who is denied an education is denied equality. And it is no coincidence that countries where women are well-educated are far more likely to be prosperous.

All in all, Obama said pretty much everything that needed to be said. We can nit pick - but I’m impressed.

As they say: read it all.

14 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:33pm

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

15 pink freud  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:01:43pm

I too, share the hope that peace will reign. 0bama’s speech was still a dud.

16 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:02:51pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Politics.

17 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:02:55pm

The Post had a interesting piece on the settlement issue and it’s history.

Settlements.

18 Kragar  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:03:05pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Filing it under keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

19 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:03:09pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Oh please Charles, you are way to sophisticated to think that any Israeli Government would say anything else? Please now.

20 houstonmike  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:03:24pm

It’s like the MSM here. The headlines say Israel praised the speech, but if you read the comments by the Israeli government they never praised the speech. They just say the ‘hope’ it brings a new attitude in the region. Then they follow that by saying they will continue to do everything in their power to make sure of Israel’s security.
I never saw one word where Israeli leaders thought it was a great or even good speech. They were just hoping his effort amounted to something.

21 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:03:26pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Israel has no good reason to condemn the speech…they just play along

22 doubter4444  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:03:39pm

re: #4 GenevaDan

Obama is foolish to offer Jerusalem to the Arabs. Israel will never relinquish Jerusalem.

Oh Jesus.

23 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:04:19pm

re: #22 doubter4444

Oh Jesus.

what’s he got to do with it?

24 Kragar  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:04:30pm

re: #21 albusteve

Israel has no good reason to condemn the speech…they just play along

Exactly. They gain nothing by speaking against it and risk further alienation by commenting against it.

25 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:04:44pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

To paraphrase Marion Berry’s comment about Jesse Jackson:
… the bloggers don’t hafta run nothin’ but their mouths.

26 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:04:55pm

re: #17 avanti

The Post had a interesting piece on the settlement issue and it’s history.

Settlements.

It’s neither interesting nor correct.

27 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:05:09pm

re: #9 MandyManners

Ooops. Hat-tip to yma!

28 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:05:42pm

re: #26 Nevergiveup

It’s neither interesting nor correct.

NGU … lol … how do you really feel? …

29 ashan  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:05:50pm

Netanyahu and Barak would give faint praise. They’re walking on eggs.

30 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:06:14pm

re: #9 MandyManners

Not all liked it.

MK Danny Danon (Likud): “The president has crossed all lines. His implied comparison between the Israeli government and the Nazi regime said everything. He has made a covenant with the Arab world and rewarded it for more than 60 years of aggression.”

I missed implied comparison of Israeli and the Nazi’s and I both watched and read the speech, any ideas ?

31 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:06:24pm

re: #14 Charles

But Netanyahu’s government is really a shaky coalition, isn’t it?

32 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:06:42pm

re: #28 JacksonTn

NGU … lol … how do you really feel? …

I’m getting worked up. Have been all day. I am actually guarding my words carefully. And I have a few beers to go thru.

33 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:06:57pm

re: #26 Nevergiveup

It’s neither interesting nor correct.

Yeah. The WaPo that loves guest editorials from terrorist-loving assholes.

34 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:07:26pm

Has anyone, who watched the speech, noticed the reaction of the audience when Obama mentioned the facts of 9/11 and the holocaust?
NO applause, absolutely none.

35 baier  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:07:41pm

Too bad Obama slammed Likud while he was running for president…

36 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:07:43pm

while evrybody is getting…sleeeepy…Israel is wide awake and planning for their survival

37 irongrampa  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:07:52pm

One more act in the never ending charade. Nothing has nor will anything change until the terror orgs-HamasFatah,etc, are entirely nullified—by whatever means is deemed necessary.
Peace talks are no more than wilful misrepresentation in the present context. Better to ignore them completely. Pretty disgusting all parties refuse to acknowledge this.

38 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:08:04pm

/why no Barry, that dress does not make you look fat at all…

39 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:08:20pm

the Post is Toast

40 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:08:28pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Every Israel has praised speeches by American Presidents, including Bush, who made similar statements as Obama did. Did change anything, doesn’t mean anything and Israel knows better. This is the diplomatic face that they must put on, in private, they are moving in the direction they feel best.

If one honestly looks at the speech, it doesn’t take being a whacko right wingnut to understand that Obama delivered a shallow speech to the Muslim world which has not note among the radical elements of that culture.

Big deal, Charles, what’s new? Equating the Holocaust with the “Occupation?” Telling us that Islam is responsible for the development of Europe. Tat the United States is a “Muslim” country.

Well, that was exiciting wasn’t it?

41 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:08:35pm

re: #34 callahan23

Has anyone, who watched the speech, noticed the reaction of the audience when Obama mentioned the facts of 9/11 and the holocaust?
NO applause, absolutely none.

callahan .. if they had applauded … would they have been clapping for what had been done? … or for what Obama was saying was tragic?….

42 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:08:54pm

re: #31 J.S.

But Netanyahu’s government is really a shaky coalition, isn’t it?

He is the FIRST Prime Minister in History who did come from the Party with the most seats in the Knesset. He is in that Office by virtue of the right of center parties having more seats than the left of center party. Shaky doesn’t even begin to describe it.

43 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:09:10pm

re: #26 Nevergiveup

It’s neither interesting nor correct.

Correct it then, please, it seemed just history of the issue with little commentary, but if they distorted it, speak up.

44 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:09:50pm

re: #14 Charles

Benjamin Netanyahu and Ehud Barak just threw Israel under the bus//

45 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:10:44pm

re: #43 avanti

Correct it then, please, it seemed just history of the issue with little commentary, but if they distorted it, speak up.

if it’s history, it’s just taking up space…if it’s commentary it’s not worth reading

46 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:10:57pm

re: #43 avanti

Correct it then, please, it seemed just history of the issue with little commentary, but if they distorted it, speak up.

First of all The past administration DID allow for the natural growth of Israelis in the west bank cities and towns.

47 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:10:59pm

I don’t agree at all that Obama compared the Holocaust to the occupation. I think that’s an overheated distortion of what he said.

48 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:11:15pm

re: #30 avanti

I missed implied comparison of Israeli and the Nazi’s and I both watched and read the speech, any ideas ?

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations - large and small - that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.

SNIP

49 captdiggs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:11:29pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

It’s called being diplomatic. But the “right wing bloggers” in large part point to many items of “change” in the Obama agenda, not the least of which was his linkage of cooperation on Iran to Israel’s cooperation with the Obama agenda.

50 SixDegrees  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:11:32pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

His opening renunciation of violence as a solution gave the Israeli’s something to hang a position on. Let’s face it: the Palestinians seem completely incapable of giving up violent behavior, and the Israelis know it, first hand. No truce or cease fire or suspension of hostilities or any other move toward a reasoned settlement will last more than a day before some Pal decides life just isn’t worth living without being able to lob mortar rounds at Jews.

It was a reasonable sounding speech that repeated everything that’s already been said, and it leaves the door open for Israel to bail on any agreement while pointing fingers back at 0 and his opening remarks, claiming (rightly) that the Pals aren’t holding up their end according to US terms.

51 Maui Girl  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:11:54pm

Does anyone else here feel like they’re living in the movie “Groundhog Day”. Same Sh*t, new day.

52 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:12:20pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Oops.

For decades, there has been a stalemate: two peoples with legitimate aspirations, each with a painful history that makes compromise elusive. It is easy to point fingers - for Palestinians to point to the displacement brought by Israel’s founding, and for Israelis to point to the constant hostility and attacks throughout its history from within its borders as well as beyond. But if we see this conflict only from one side or the other, then we will be blind to the truth: the only resolution is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states, where Israelis and Palestinians each live in peace and security.

53 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:12:40pm

re: #41 JacksonTn

callahan .. if they had applauded … would they have been clapping for what had been done? … or for what Obama was saying was tragic?….

Good point. Yet I had the feeling they where stunned that he would mention those two events the country with an abundance of conspiracy and holocaust denying crooks.

54 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:12:44pm

re: #28 JacksonTn

NGU … lol … how do you really feel? …

Not to mention he read and commented on the article in under two minutes.

55 Kragar  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:13:13pm

re: #51 Maui Girl

Does anyone else here feel like they’re living in the movie “Groundhog Day”. Same Sh*t, new day.

Didn’t you say that before?

/

56 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:14:01pm

re: #17 avanti

The Post had a interesting piece on the settlement issue and it’s history.

Settlements.

This still doesn’t address the details. From my armchair perspective there have always been two categories of settlements and expansions.

One is the continued construction WITHIN settlement areas, the other is the fanatical mobile home or two on a hilltop, most likely simply expropriated, by fundamentalists that seem no different to me than the other side.

Israel tried to abandon the formal settlement areas in Gaza, and we saw where that led. There is no reason to stop all construction in areas that everyone knows will not be given back again, given the example of the last time and where the borders are known and I believe mostly fixed already. That is not expansion.

The nutcases on the hilltops, they can cart off for all I care, but Obama is still dancing around the details, as the devil knows.

57 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:14:04pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations - large and small - that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.

SNIP

total pandering bullshit…I reject this fallacy implicitly

58 MJ  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:14:24pm
(partial) Response from the ADL to Obama’s speech:

“…Regarding the Israelis and Palestinians, it would have been important to hear the President put the conflict into its proper historical perspective — six Arab nations attacked Israel from day one and the occupation of Palestinian land was a product of Israel’s wars of self-defense. While strongly reiterating the importance of America’s relationship with the State of Israel and articulating Israel’s right to exist, President Obama missed the opportunity to address the misperceptions in the Arab world and to make clear that the Palestinians would have had a state had they accepted the United Nations resolution in 1948.

While he made strong statements against anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial, it should have been made clear that Israel’s right to statehood is not a result of anti-Semitism and the Holocaust. We are disappointed that the President found the need to balance the suffering of the Jewish people in a genocide to the suffering of the Palestinian people resulting from Arab wars…

[Link: www.adl.org…]

59 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:14:26pm

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.

If you just read it without knowing who gave the speech, and someone told you it was a speech by George W. Bush, I don’t think you would have been able to tell that it wasn’t.

60 doubter4444  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:14:55pm

It was just short for “Oh Jesus, what a load of hyperbolic crap.”

Look, the speech was not ground-breaking, in that any changes will take time, so at best it’s an attempt to start some new thinking, at worse lip-service to an issue that has been intractable for a 1000 years (or at least since 1973, which seems as long ago).
I say, good for him to at least put a marker in the sand. Action, as many have said will be the real test, but I can’t condemn the guy for speaking up. I personally think it is a baby step towards a solution that will take years, one of many, by the way, not the first.
But to say he is giving Jerusalem away is laughable and, as I said, hyperbolic nonsense

61 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:15:08pm

re: #54 avanti

Not to mention he read and commented on the article in under two minutes.

I know the author and have been commenting on the Settlements all day.

62 kansas  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:15:26pm

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com…]

63 VioletTiger  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:15:58pm

Reading commentary online and in the news, it seems to me that many heard exactly what they wanted to hear. If they wanted to find something to criticize, they found it, and if they wanted support for their positions, they found that, too.

64 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:16:20pm

re: #59 Charles

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.

If you just read it without knowing who gave the speech, and someone told you it was a speech by George W. Bush, I don’t think you would have been able to tell that it wasn’t.

I didn’t know Bush also went to a midrassah?
/

65 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:16:25pm

re: #52 MandyManners

Oops.

For decades, there has been a stalemate: two peoples with legitimate aspirations, each with a painful history that makes compromise elusive. It is easy to point fingers - for Palestinians to point to the displacement brought by Israel’s founding, and for Israelis to point to the constant hostility and attacks throughout its history from within its borders as well as beyond. But if we see this conflict only from one side or the other, then we will be blind to the truth: the only resolution is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states, where Israelis and Palestinians each live in peace and security.

Who made them leave?

66 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:16:35pm

re: #59 Charles

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.

If you just read it without knowing who gave the speech, and someone told you it was a speech by George W. Bush, I don’t think you would have been able to tell that it wasn’t.

and that’s just exactly the point imo…he say alot that really means nothing….there is nothing new here, no actionable plan, no new ideas, just rehash of all the stuff that’s been said already…a clone speech

67 houstonmike  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:16:40pm

#47 Charles, after his talk about the holocaust of the Jews, which was good….if he stopped right there. But he said in the same sentence ‘on the other hand’ and then he tallked about the plight of the Palestinians. what the hell does that mean Charles, on the other hand?
As a Jew, I found that statement disgraceful and repugnant. You don’t talk about the holocaust and then say ‘on the other hand’.

68 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:16:48pm

re: #60 doubter4444

He said absolutely nothing about “giving Jerusalem away.” I don’t know where that one comes from, except someone’s imagination.

69 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:16:53pm

re: #47 Charles

I don’t agree at all the Obama compared the Holocaust to the occupation. I think that’s an overheated distortion of what he said.

I watched it at lunch..You are right..There was no connection at all..
It gets tiresome of the reach some will go to….Ultra sensitivity is in play here..

70 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:17:02pm

re: #59 Charles

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.

If you just read it without knowing who gave the speech, and someone told you it was a speech by George W. Bush, I don’t think you would have been able to tell that it wasn’t.


oooooooooooo!
Th’ hate mail will REALLY pour in for THAT one!

/but you’ve got a danged good point

71 justdanny  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:17:16pm

Obama can’t fix the many centurys old blood lust held by devout islam against those who denied Muhammed.

This dogmatic bloodlust will live as long as islam exists.

All of fiendish devout islam will continue to work for the death of ‘the people of the book’. Primarily the Jewish people of the book.

72 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:17:52pm

re: #59 Charles

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.

If you just read it without knowing who gave the speech, and someone told you it was a speech by George W. Bush, I don’t think you would have been able to tell that it wasn’t.

Charles … I agree it was not a new or different speech … but wasn’t Obama suppose to be “new and different” … if he is just more of the same … why are some saying it was such a great speech? … just because it was Obama who spoke? …

73 Dianna  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:18:43pm

I’m out.

Take care.

74 VioletTiger  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:18:44pm

re: #70 pre-Boomer Marine brat

oooooooooooo!
Th’ hate mail will REALLY pour in for THAT one!

/but you’ve got a danged good point

I agree that it could have been a speech by Bush. However, the Muslim world seems to think it was ‘very different’. Interesting.

[Link: www.comcast.net…]

75 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:18:46pm

re: #68 Charles

He said absolutely nothing about “giving Jerusalem away.” I don’t know where that one comes from, except someone’s imagination.

agreed..as well as the Holocaust comparison…made up indignation again

76 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:18:50pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations - large and small - that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.

SNIP

Sorry, I did make that into the Nazi equivalency thing, quite a stretch.

77 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:18:53pm

re: #72 JacksonTn

… just because it was Obama who spoke? …

Precisely.

/butting in, I know

78 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:19:10pm

re: #73 Dianna

I’m out.

Take care.

You too.
Get a good night’s sleep

79 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:19:44pm

If Israel slammed the speech i bet you guys would be thrilled.
Maybe hoping for failure isn’t the best political attitude to have.

80 flyovercountry  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:19:53pm

RE : 14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”
Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

It’s a little like telling your new girl friend, “I like you so much more than my last girl friend.” Israel needs the US, and Bibi knows this. What I will give President Obama credit for is his statement that the arab world should stop using lies and distortions about Israel as a tool to deflect attention from their own internal failures. No President or dignitary had said that before. Obama’s grade moved from an F to a solid D- in my book.

81 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:20:03pm

re: #68 Charles

He said absolutely nothing about “giving Jerusalem away.” I don’t know where that one comes from, except someone’s imagination.

It comes from this section:

“when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) joined in prayer.”

Which some are taking as calling for the Internationalization of Jerusalem.

82 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:20:34pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

If Israel slammed the speech i bet you guys would be thrilled.
Maybe hoping for failure isn’t the best political attitude to have.

but we didn’t and we aren’t…..

83 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:21:14pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

If Israel slammed the speech i bet you guys would be thrilled.
Maybe hoping for failure isn’t the best political attitude to have.

Lizards have vastly differing opinions KT. It is not always you against the world.

84 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:21:52pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

that is just a very curious post…wtf?

85 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:22:11pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

The right wing bloggers are still stuck in campaign mode, like the election never stopped. Everything is an outrage. They need to put aside the snark and bark awhile and start building. Feeding standard campaign season outrage of the day stuff might make the 20 percent of the country who are already committed feel better, but it’s not going to bring back the voters who defected, and it’s not going to bring in new voters. It’s time to build.

86 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:22:19pm

re: #81 Nevergiveup

It comes from this section:

“when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) joined in prayer.”

Which some are taking as calling for the Internationalization of Jerusalem.

It’s flowery political rhetoric, nothing more.

87 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:22:20pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

If Israel slammed the speech i bet you guys would be thrilled.
Maybe hoping for failure isn’t the best political attitude to have.

you guys?

88 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:22:48pm

A repost of my comment
I fully agree to this analysis:

Worse than Obamas forged depiction of the Islamic history is the fact that he is missing a moral compass.
He was reveling in moral relativism. Everybody is guilty, nobody is guilty.
The Iranian revolution was bad but so was the toppling of Mossadeq by the Americans.
The holocaust was gruesome but the occupation by Israel is also deplorable.
The President is missing all moral categories.
He sheds no words about the wars the Arabs have forced upon Israel, no mention that the Palestinians rejected in 2000 the offer for their own state and began the intifada.
Obama compares the Palestinians to the black slaves in America of olden times. As if the Palestinians were the slaves of Israel and the Jews their oppressors.
The Palestinians have to stop the violence and need to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop the settlements. It is all equally bad and all the same.
There are no moral distinctions, regardless if one builds a house on disputed territory or kills civilians and wants to annihilate the followers of a different religion.

This text is an excerpt from a larger article by Joachim Steinhöfel that I translated from German. For those Lizards who are able to read German here is the full article.

89 kansas  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:23:34pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

If Israel slammed the speech i bet you guys would be thrilled.
Maybe hoping for failure isn’t the best political attitude to have.

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com…]
Some Isaelis weren’t just real happy, as far as I can tell. Netanyahu and Barak have to be diplomatic.

90 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:24:38pm

re: #89 kansas

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com…]
Some Isaelis weren’t just real happy, as far as I can tell. Netanyahu and Barak have to be diplomatic.

there is no reason to slam the speech…they know that

91 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:25:18pm

re: #86 Charles

It’s flowery political rhetoric, nothing more.

Probably, but as I said in another post earlier today, this is the Middle East were ever letter and every word is crucial. Obama should know that. If he doesn’t he should bud out. As for Jerusalem, the only time that “Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) joined in prayer. ” was after 1967 when Israel united the city. Which is why i say you have to real careful what you say especially if your a little shaky on the history.

92 captdiggs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:26:53pm

re: #59 Charles

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.


I agree. It’s only in a line by line examination, in context with history, that parts of the speech fall apart.
But, he said more about a few things…like holocaust denial than I had ever heard a president say before to the muslim world.

93 Jack Burton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:27:24pm

Considering what I think about Obama and what I perceive to be his attempts to throw Israel under that bus of his, without making it look like he’s throwing them under the bus… when I saw this “Israeli Government Praises Obama Speech” headline here on LGF, the very first thing I though of was this for some reason:

Youtube Video
94 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:27:59pm

re: #59 Charles

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.

If you just read it without knowing who gave the speech, and someone told you it was a speech by George W. Bush, I don’t think you would have been able to tell that it wasn’t.

I was expecting something a lot worse.

95 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:28:09pm

re: #92 captdiggs

I agree. It’s only in a line by line examination, in context with history, that parts of the speech fall apart.
But, he said more about a few things…like holocaust denial than I had ever heard a president say before to the muslim world.

Actually Clinton and Bush both did.

96 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:28:27pm

re: #91 Nevergiveup

Probably, but as I said in another post earlier today, this is the Middle East were ever letter and every word is crucial. Obama should know that. If he doesn’t he should bud out. As for Jerusalem, the only time that “Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) joined in prayer. ” was after 1967 when Israel united the city. Which is why i say you have to real careful what you say especially if your a little shaky on the history.

I think he is trying to make his words palpable to both Moslims and us here at home…and to do that he really says nothing of much substance…that’s just how you play it down the middle…BO has no conviction to any principle except his own political charm

97 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:28:38pm

re: #91 Nevergiveup

Probably, but as I said in another post earlier today, this is the Middle East were ever letter and every word is crucial. Obama should know that. If he doesn’t he should bud out. As for Jerusalem, the only time that “Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) joined in prayer. ” was after 1967 when Israel united the city. Which is why i say you have to real careful what you say especially if your a little shaky on the history.

You kind.

A little shaky on history. Hell, he wasn’t even in the ballpark.

98 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:28:51pm

re: #86 Charles

It’s flowery political rhetoric, nothing more.

I agree, except with the “nothing more”.

I agree that that’s almost certainly the way he meant it. I also think it might (MIGHT) easily be taken as an allusion to some sort of opening the city. In other words, given that the speech was made by a politician, the words are “interpretable”.

/for the record, IMHO, the Arabs don’t have a historically-supportable claim to Jerusalem

99 houstonmike  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:29:04pm

#75 a made up indignation about Holocaust comparison to Palestinian situation.
What if someone said: I think the killing of Dr. Tiller was wrong, terrible, it was murder, on the other hand the killing of babies by abortion doctors abhorrent.

Would someone be justified in being indignant about the comparison or would you say that is outrageous to say there is a comparison of the two?

100 MJ  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:29:15pm

re: #86 Charles

It’s flowery political rhetoric, nothing more.

Isn’t Obama the one who gave the “Just Words” speech which, of course, meant that words do matter?

101 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:29:50pm

re: #94 Alouette

I was expecting something a lot worse.

Yep, that’s what it’s come down to. Instead of expecting the US and our president to act like a real leader, we’re happy if he doesn’t get himself booed off stage.

Pitiful, IMHO.

102 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:30:34pm

re: #92 captdiggs

Also can’t really expect Obama to go to Cairo, so he can brow-beat the Muslim world…deride them…Clearly, he’s going to be complimentary…(it’s to be expected)….(what was somewhat surprising was when he inserted those little jabs every once and a while..)

103 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:30:43pm

IMO Obama wants to force a situation where he can take credit for “peace in the ME” & he doesn’t care who gets hurt in the process.

104 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:31:10pm

re: #98 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I agree, except with the “nothing more”.

I agree that that’s almost certainly the way he meant it. I also think it might (MIGHT) easily be taken as an allusion to some sort of opening the city. In other words, given that the speech was made by a politician, the words are “interpretable”.

/for the record, IMHO, the Arabs don’t have a historically-supportable claim to Jerusalem


But in the Middle East it isn’t what you meant, it is how it is interpreted? The word inexperienced comes to mind.

105 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:31:55pm

You could put this speech in a can and pull it out in four or eight years for the next president.

The one remarkable standout thing I saw was the President who’s supposed to be a “sekret mooslim” taking wide bore direct shots at radical Islam in last century’s birthplace of radical Islam.

106 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:32:11pm

re: #102 J.S.

Also can’t really expect Obama to go to Cairo, so he can brow-beat the Muslim world…deride them…Clearly, he’s going to be complimentary…(it’s to be expected)….(what was somewhat surprising was when he inserted those little jabs every once and a while..)

But why in hell did he even go?

107 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:32:15pm

re: #103 brookly red

IMO Obama wants to force a situation where he can take credit for “peace in the ME” & he doesn’t care who gets hurt in the process.

right…exactly…it’s the Grand Prize and he knows it…very dangerous turf, and he is exactly the wrong POTUS at this time in history

108 Maui Girl  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:32:29pm

re: #59 Charles

aka Same Sh*t, new prez

109 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:32:50pm

re: #106 Nevergiveup

But why in hell did he even go?

points

110 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:32:56pm

re: #83 Racer X

I know but it seems like a lot of people wanted it to be worse than it was.

111 captdiggs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:33:05pm

re: #95 Nevergiveup

Actually Clinton and Bush both did.

Did they? I really don’t recall anything like it from them and certainly neither really made a speech like this from arab territory.
Don’t get me wrong here…there was a lot of pablum for islam in the speech that neither jibes with reality or history.

112 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:33:09pm

On the other hand, let’s look at George W. Bush’s record on Jerusalem.

In his 2000 campaign, he promised that as soon as he took office he would move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Eight years later, it just sorta never happened.

Ain’t politics wonderful?

113 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:33:24pm

Israel is just being diplomatic. Everyone there knows that the speech is nothing but platitudes and will have no positive impact on its mortal enemies.

114 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:33:43pm

re: #104 Nevergiveup

But in the Middle East it isn’t what you meant, it is how it is interpreted? The word inexperienced comes to mind.

Precisely

115 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:33:47pm

re: #103 brookly red

IMO Obama wants to force a situation where he can take credit for “peace in the ME” & he doesn’t care who gets hurt in the process.

Well he better be prepared for the possible blood bath that might follow after he doesn’t achieve Nirvana? I reference Intifada 2 after Clinton’s gambit failed.

116 kansas  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:34:18pm

What was it he said about it being the President of the United States job to stand up for Muslims all over the world, and that the US was actually a Muslim country? Did I make that up? I google Obama Cairo speech transcript and can’t come up with a straight transcript, only excerpts with comments that support the commenter’s typically liberal point.

117 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:34:33pm

re: #112 Charles

On the other hand, let’s look at George W. Bush’s record on Jerusalem.

In his 2000 campaign, he promised that as soon as he took office he would move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Eight years later, it just sorta never happened.

Ain’t politics wonderful?


That, and the realizations that must occur once one is in that office

118 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:34:35pm

re: #101 Walter L. Newton

or have a shoe thrown at him (personally, I just relieved that Obama didn’t apologize for 9/11 — Michael Ware maintained that Obama did, in a subtle way, apologize for the Iraq war and torture at Gitmo…and Ware also suggested a correspondence of “violent extremists” with America’s decision/choice to go to war with Iraq.).

119 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:34:44pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I know but it seems like a lot of people wanted it to be worse than it was.

like who?…it seems to me like everybody here has given it a pass…you are sounding more jaded with every post…

120 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:34:52pm

Every candidate running for President makes promises over Jerusalem (except Obama) that absolutely nobody expects them to keep.

121 Maui Girl  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:35:04pm

“On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations - large and small - that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.”

This part of the speech should have been accompanied by pix of Pale kids with their fake AK47’s and camoflauge headbands and other such photographs.

122 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:35:07pm

re: #105 Thanos

You could put this speech in a can and pull it out in four or eight years for the next president.

The one remarkable standout thing I saw was the President who’s supposed to be a “sekret mooslim” taking wide bore direct shots at radical Islam in last century’s birthplace of radical Islam.

Up-Ding!

/and you can Sayyed again! ………….. sorry, just couldn’t resist

123 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:35:09pm

re: #106 Nevergiveup

So he could apologize for all of America’s wrong-doings in the Muslim world?

124 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:35:30pm

Its all about feelings. Obama has made lots of people in the middle east, and Israel, feel good. Thats all that matters.
/

125 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:35:39pm

re: #112 Charles

On the other hand, let’s look at George W. Bush’s record on Jerusalem.

In his 2000 campaign, he promised that as soon as he took office he would move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Eight years later, it just sorta never happened.

Ain’t politics wonderful?

Correct. And this makes Obama’s speech better how? This makes Obama’s speech mean more, how? This means Obama speech will bring the middle east closer to peace how?

I don’t see the connection, except presidents who cannot effect any changes in the middle east.

126 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:35:49pm

re: #112 Charles

On the other hand, let’s look at George W. Bush’s record on Jerusalem.

In his 2000 campaign, he promised that as soon as he took office he would move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Eight years later, it just sorta never happened.

Ain’t politics wonderful?

And almost every Presidential candidate since Truman has promised that? You know that. It’s almost like one of the longest political jokes of the 20th century.

127 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:35:58pm

re: #112 Charles

On the other hand, let’s look at George W. Bush’s record on Jerusalem.

In his 2000 campaign, he promised that as soon as he took office he would move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Eight years later, it just sorta never happened.

Ain’t politics wonderful?

Heh. Wonderful indeed.

128 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:37:02pm

re: #112 Charles

On the other hand, let’s look at George W. Bush’s record on Jerusalem.

In his 2000 campaign, he promised that as soon as he took office he would move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Eight years later, it just sorta never happened.

Ain’t politics wonderful?

GWB originally stated he would re-focus on South America. Then came 9/11 and not a peep was heard about it for 8 years.

129 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:37:16pm

re: #116 kansas

What was it he said about it being the President of the United States job to stand up for Muslims all over the world, and that the US was actually a Muslim country? Did I make that up?

I don’t know if you made it up, but you sure got it wrong. Here’s what he said:

“And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.’

That’s a far cry from, “The US is actually a Muslim country.”

130 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:37:23pm

re: #115 Nevergiveup

Well he better be prepared for the possible blood bath that might follow after he doesn’t achieve Nirvana? I reference Intifada 2 after Clinton’s gambit failed.

Intifada sound like a picnic compared to the war that he is going to cause.

131 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:37:33pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

I’d be happier if someone in the media or government just label this as the GNDN speech it really is, especially if that someone were in Israel.

132 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:37:47pm

re: #112 Charles

On the other hand, let’s look at George W. Bush’s record on Jerusalem.

In his 2000 campaign, he promised that as soon as he took office he would move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

Eight years later, it just sorta never happened.

Ain’t politics wonderful?

Bush danced his way through that issue miserably…Condi Rice was even worse…no points for that bullshit unless it comes down to his total abandonment of Israel which by some miracle didn’t happen…Bush was pretty hapless himself sometimes

133 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:38:11pm

re: #130 brookly red

Intifada sound like a picnic compared to the war that he is going to cause.

That does worry me. And not only in Israel.

134 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:38:19pm

re: #128 Racer X

GWB originally stated he would re-focus on South America. Then came 9/11 and not a peep was heard about it for 8 years.

When you’re up to your ass in alligators it’s hard to remember that the original intent was to drain the swamp!

135 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:38:36pm
136 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:38:49pm
137 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:38:55pm

re: #134 sattv4u2

When you’re up to your ass in alligators it’s hard to remember that the original intent was to drain the swamp!

I wish I had said that.

138 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:38:59pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I know but it seems like a lot of people wanted it to be worse than it was.

I do see a lot of posters looking between the lines at the meanings and nuances. I’m not sure anyone knew what to expect.

139 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:39:00pm

That Obama, who has hung around or known Israel haters all his adult life - Ayers, Rashid Khalidi, Wright, Edward Said, Samantha Power, Chas Freeman, is not exactly sympathetic towards Israel’s security needs is surprising is a mystery to me. That and the fact that he knows (alas) that he will get 70 -80% of the Jewish vote (not mine of course) automatically leaves him no motivation to even give lip service to caring. What is amazing is how marginalized Hillary Clinton has become as Secretary of State - she is almost invisible.

140 kansas  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:39:12pm

re: #129 Charles

Is that accurate? Is the US one of the largest Muslim countries in the world, by numbers of Muslims of course?

141 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:39:20pm

re: #129 Charles

“And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.’

Correct, and we are not “one of the largest Muslim countries. He got that wrong. That’s a far cry from accurate.

142 traderjoe9  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:39:29pm
On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland.

Fuck, Obama is so right on this one. Poor Arabs…they simply don’t have enough homelands.

143 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:39:38pm

re: #137 Nevergiveup

I wish I had said that.

you will !

144 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:39:58pm

re: #139 Joel

That Obama, who has hung around or known Israel haters all his adult life - Ayers, Rashid Khalidi, Wright, Edward Said, Samantha Power, Chas Freeman, is not exactly sympathetic towards Israel’s security needs is surprising is a mystery to me. That and the fact that he knows (alas) that he will get 70 -80% of the Jewish vote (not mine of course) automatically leaves him no motivation to even give lip service to caring. What is amazing is how marginalized Hillary Clinton has become as Secretary of State - she is almost invisible.

Who?

145 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:40:27pm

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

Correct. And this makes Obama’s speech better how? This makes Obama’s speech mean more, how? This means Obama speech will bring the middle east closer to peace how?

I don’t recall saying that it made Obama’s speech “better” or “mean more.”

See, I don’t expect much from these speeches. Maybe that’s why my panties aren’t all bunched up about it.

146 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:40:32pm

re: #132 albusteve

Bush danced his way through that issue miserably…Condi Rice was even worse…no points for that bullshit unless it comes down to his total abandonment of Israel which by some miracle didn’t happen…Bush was pretty hapless himself sometimes

albusteve … exactly … everyone claims they want to help and promise things … and then in the end they do not come through … no wonder Israel feels they are out there all alone … because in the end IMO they are … they get used every election … just like Roe v. Wade on both sides … it makes me sick …

147 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:40:52pm

re: #132 albusteve

Bush danced his way through that issue miserably…Condi Rice was even worse…no points for that bullshit unless it comes down to his total abandonment of Israel which by some miracle didn’t happen…Bush was pretty hapless himself sometimes

The pro Israel people were Rumsfeld and Cheney. Colin Powell and Condi Rice? The less said the better.

148 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:41:02pm

re: #133 Nevergiveup

That does worry me. And not only in Israel.

the stakes are much higher now, and we are looking weak. nothing good can come of this.

149 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:41:33pm

re: #145 Charles

I don’t recall saying that it made Obama’s speech “better” or “mean more.”

See, I don’t expect much from these speeches. Maybe that’s why my panties aren’t all bunched up about it.

When you expect the crap being beaten out of you, only a punch in the nose is a great thing.

150 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:41:43pm

re: #129 Charles

That’s a far cry from, “The US is actually a Muslim country.”

Wouldn’t we be No. 38th or so?

151 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:41:44pm

re: #143 sattv4u2

you will !

Oh I will. I steal better than I create. Some comedian said something funny about stealing someone else’s jokes, but it escapes me right now.

152 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:41:44pm

re: #147 Joel

The pro Israel people were Rumsfeld and Cheney. Colin Powell and Condi Rice? The less said the better.

his second term State Dept was a wreck…good riddance

153 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:41:55pm

re: #144 Nevergiveup

Who?

AS LBJ once said “It is better to have your enemies inside the tent pissing out, then outside pissing in”.

154 kansas  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:42:19pm

Its the job of the President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam throughout the world wherever they appear. Just heard him say that. I’m pretty sure that’s not in the job description.

155 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:42:43pm

re: #145 Charles

I don’t recall saying that it made Obama’s speech “better” or “mean more.”

See, I don’t expect much from these speeches. Maybe that’s why my panties aren’t all bunched up about it.

that and I hear you usually go commando?

156 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:42:49pm

re: #145 Charles

I don’t recall saying that it made Obama’s speech “better” or “mean more.”

See, I don’t expect much from these speeches. Maybe that’s why my panties aren’t all bunched up about it.

Neither are mine. But, you post these wonderful topics, so I respond with my opinion. Otherwise, I wouldn’t even bring it up. Most of the people I deal with on a daily basis couldn’t care less. At least on LGF there is an interest, one way or another. I don’t think you are talking about my panties, are you?

157 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:43:04pm

re: #155 Nevergiveup

that and I hear you usually go commando?

TMI

158 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:43:07pm
159 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:43:46pm

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

I don’t think you are talking about my panties, are you

again ,, TMI

160 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:44:12pm

re: #152 albusteve

his second term State Dept was a wreck…good riddance

agreed. The second term was pretty horrible. I think that GW Bush went into lame duck mode in the summer of 2005 after Katrina. I supported Bush but was not blind to his short comings which were
1 loyalty towards incompetents
2. not fighting back

P.S. - I saw Liz Cheney on MSNBC. I like her a lot. She also commented on the moral relativism Obama used.

161 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:44:22pm

re: #159 sattv4u2

I don’t think you are talking about my panties, are you

again ,, TMI

Certainly ain’t talking about mine, since I don’t wear any. ;)

162 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:44:25pm

re: #153 Joel

AS LBJ once said “It is better to have your enemies inside the tent pissing out, then outside pissing in”.

That is exactly what Obama did to the Clintons. It was brilliant. I am just amazed they fell for it?

163 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:44:37pm

re: #140 kansas

Is that accurate? Is the US one of the largest Muslim countries in the world, by numbers of Muslims of course?

It depends on whose figures you’re citing. CAIR claims there are eleventy gazillion Muslims in the U.S. A more objective estimate (based on the number of mosques and their approximate membership) is closer to 2 million.

164 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:44:50pm

re: #161 FurryOldGuyJeans

Certainly ain’t talking about mine, since I don’t wear any. ;)

BRAIN BLEACH ,, STAT

165 NY Nana  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:44:54pm

I am going to not say a word. I am seething too much to post.

/Hussein made my seething meter go up so high that I have to find a new one.

BBL…

166 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:44:58pm

According to the numbers on this page, the United States would be in the upper third of the largest Muslim countries.

167 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:45:50pm

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Neither are mine. But, you post these wonderful topics, so I respond with my opinion. Otherwise, I wouldn’t even bring it up. Most of the people I deal with on a daily basis couldn’t care less. At least on LGF there is an interest, one way or another. I don’t think you are talking about my panties, are you?

I like the topic…as for your undies, not so much….nice headgear tho

168 kansas  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:45:50pm

re: #163 Alouette

It depends on whose figures you’re citing. CAIR claims there are eleventy gazillion Muslims in the U.S. A more objective estimate (based on the number of mosques and their approximate membership) is closer to 2 million.

In other words, no, the point Obama made about that he pretty much pulled out of his ass.

169 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:45:58pm

re: #157 sattv4u2

TMI

I had to google TMI

170 Colin Nelson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:46:37pm

The community organizer, or as I call him, Mr. In Between, is in way over his head.

When he fudged his own fathers religion, he lost all legitimacy.

171 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:46:43pm

re: #160 Joel

I think Bush got worn down in the second term by the constant pounding he was taking from the MSM and Congress.

172 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:47:06pm

re: #169 Nevergiveup

I had to google TMI

Gonna share the results, hmmmm? Or are you going to leave us googleless?

173 Persian Shoe  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:47:07pm

OT

I see the “chosen one” is sporting a new mustache at his speach in Egypt.

174 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:47:28pm

re: #165 NY Nana

I am going to not say a word. I am seething too much to post.

/Hussein made my seething meter go up so high that I have to find a new one.

BBL…

I’ve been meaning to say this, and here’s a good opportunity. I think it’s really offensive to refer to the President as “Hussein.” It’s the kind of crap that you’ll find at Atlas Shrieks, and I really don’t appreciate seeing it here. Please knock it off, or I’ll just start deleting comments that do it.

175 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:47:48pm

re: #166 Charles

According to the numbers on this page, the United States would be in the upper third of the largest Muslim countries.

numbers wise, yes. Percentage of population, nit so much (rank #268,, one spot ahead of Puerto Rico)

176 SixDegrees  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:48:00pm

re: #106 Nevergiveup

But why in hell did he even go?

Campaign promise. He said many times that he would address “Muslims in the Muslim world” in his first 100 days as President. I’m fairly certain he reiterated it after taking office, too. The hundred day thing didn’t work out - logistically impossible to pull off in such a short amount of time - so he got there a little late. But it was little more than a fulfillment of what he promised during the campaign.

For what it’s worth, he never promised that anything would come of such an address. Doesn’t look like much will, either.

177 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:48:09pm

re: #166 Charles

According to the numbers on this page, the United States would be in the upper third of the largest Muslim countries.

Charles … somebody needs to send that to Obama because he said we have 7 million muslims …

178 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:48:10pm

re: #172 FurryOldGuyJeans

Gonna share the results, hmmmm? Or are you going to leave us googleless?

Too Much Information

179 captdiggs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:48:34pm

Krauthammer just shredded the speech, and he did a good job of it.

180 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:48:43pm

re: #162 Nevergiveup

That is exactly what Obama did to the Clintons. It was brilliant. I am just amazed they fell for it?

Me too. Hillary should have stayed in the Seante where she could have been Dem. Leader once Reid left and been in a position to run again if Obama became a disaster. Obama marginalized Bill and Hillary in one stroke.

181 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:49:19pm

Obama’s speech was fundamentally just another speech, one of many. There were a few differences — his firing of shots across Muslim bows.

Obama’s credibility with the world’s hardboiled leaders is south of 50%.
Credibility (read “fear” if you wish) is what’s needed to get results.

This speech will wind up in the elephantine graveyard of Presidential Speeches, the Library of Congress.

182 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:49:24pm

re: #179 captdiggs

Krauthammer just shredded the speech, and he did a good job of it.

Krauthammer is the only reason to look at the Washington Post. George Will is very 1980’s.

183 freetoken  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:49:40pm

re: #105 Thanos

Agree… and that he ventured into the land of deNile and directly addressed 9/11 and the Holocaust.

184 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:49:43pm

re: #177 JacksonTn

Charles … somebody needs to send that to Obama because he said we have 7 million muslims …

well you have to count all 57 states…

185 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:49:51pm

re: #180 Joel

Me too. Hillary should have stayed in the Seante where she could have been Dem. Leader once Reid left and been in a position to run again if Obama became a disaster. Obama marginalized Bill and Hillary in one stroke.

Joel … I have some ideas of what marginalized the Clintons but my head will hurt too bad if I replay the primaries ….

186 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:50:00pm

re: #178 Nevergiveup

Too Much Information

I don’t think it’s too much information asking you to relay what your google search on TMI produced. No need to be coy, just tell us! ;)

187 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:50:05pm

re: #124 Racer X

Its all about feelings. Obama has made lots of people in the middle east, and Israel, feel good. Thats all that matters.
/

I know you are being sarcastic, but you may have nailed it. I was watching the news, and they were interviewing Muslims on the street, and many had sipped at least a bit of the Kool Aid. They were pleasantly surprised by the speech and one said something like I think Obama might give us our best chance for peace, I hope we take it. Hope and change, pass the Kool Aid.

188 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:50:33pm

re: #181 pre-Boomer Marine brat

As the blog owner basically said (paraphrasing) - “you can change a few words here and there and the next president can give the exact same speech.”

189 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:51:34pm

re: #187 avanti

I know you are being sarcastic, but you may have nailed it. I was watching the news, and they were interviewing Muslims on the street, and many had sipped at least a bit of the Kool Aid. They were pleasantly surprised by the speech and one said something like I think Obama might give us our best chance for peace, I hope we take it. Hope and change, pass the Kool Aid.

They didn’t “take it” when it was handed to them by Carter. They didn’t “take it” when it was handed to them by Clinton.
No. In each case they wanted MORE

190 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:51:51pm

re: #187 avanti

I know you are being sarcastic, but you may have nailed it. I was watching the news, and they were interviewing Muslims on the street, and many had sipped at least a bit of the Kool Aid. They were pleasantly surprised by the speech and one said something like I think Obama might give us our best chance for peace, I hope we take it. Hope and change, pass the Kool Aid.


Avanti I like ya but I got this bridge here in Brooklyn for sale?

191 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:51:57pm

re: #185 JacksonTn

Joel … I have some ideas of what marginalized the Clintons but my head will hurt too bad if I replay the primaries ….

No fan of the Clinton’s here but I would take either one of them a million times over Obama. Obama is totally unprepared for this job.

192 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:51:57pm

A song with two anthems:

Youtube Video
193 traderjoe9  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:51:58pm
Israel must also live up to its obligations to ensure that Palestinians can live, and work, and develop their society.

Actually Obama, Israel has been single-handedly supporting the Arabs of the territories with absolutely zero assistance from the neighbor Arab nations, this in addition to feeding its own fucking Jewish population.

Israel no longer has any “obligations.” Israel has been the worldwide leader in the fight against terrorism, Israel is taking care of the worlds own mess, and Israel has always been ready and willing to achieve peace. Despite all this - Israel has never had a helping hand, with the exception of the United States, and now even that is gradually disappearing .

It’s time the rest of the world fulfilled their obligations. And when the world fails to do that, its time that Israel does what it needs to fucking do, so life isn’t spent like this.

194 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:52:13pm

re: #179 captdiggs

Krauthammer just shredded the speech, and he did a good job of it.

Linky please?

195 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:52:19pm

re: #190 Nevergiveup

Avanti I like ya but I got this bridge here in Brooklyn for sale?

not to mention the beachfront property in Arizona!

196 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:52:56pm

re: #166 Charles

According to the numbers on this page, the United States would be in the upper third of the largest Muslim countries.

Bu population, we are not even in the top 50, we are at 52. By percentage, we aren’t even on the chart. How does that jive with Obama’s statement as “one of the largest Muslims Countries.”

We’re a light weight.

197 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:53:00pm

re: #180 Joel

Me too. Hillary should have stayed in the Seante where she could have been Dem. Leader once Reid left and been in a position to run again if Obama became a disaster. Obama marginalized Bill and Hillary in one stroke.

HC made a huge blunder moving into BOs camp…HUGE…she gave it all away

198 SixDegrees  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:53:44pm

re: #166 Charles

According to the numbers on this page, the United States would be in the upper third of the largest Muslim countries.

Correct. Since “one of the largest” isn’t exactly precise, it counts.

I suspect, though, that some information got trampled on the way from fact to researcher to approval committee to speech writer to another approval committee to teleprompter transcription to delivery. That being the US population of Arabs - just those in Dearborn, Michigan - being the largest concentration of Arabs anywhere outside the Middle East. Big ass population in New Jersey, too. It seem more likely that this was what was intended, but got garbled along the way.

Either way, it isn’t a false statement.

199 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:54:03pm

re: #30 avanti

I missed implied comparison of Israeli and the Nazi’s and I both watched and read the speech, any ideas ?

There was no implication. He was actually stating that there was a holocaust and would abe visiting buchenwald soon. I think the guy was searching for something.

200 screaming_eagle  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:54:07pm

re: #190 Nevergiveup

Avanti I like ya but I got this bridge here in Brooklyn for sale?

Shhh, I’m gonna sale him beach-front property in Arizona.

201 MJ  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:54:30pm

re: #189 sattv4u2

They didn’t “take it” when it was handed to them by Carter. They didn’t “take it” when it was handed to them by Clinton.
No. In each case they wanted MORE

hell, they didn’t take it in 1948 when the could have established Palestine alongside Israel.

They didn’t take it when Barak offered it to them.

They didn’t take it when Olmert offered it to them.

They didn’t take it when Sharon gave it to them.

202 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:54:44pm

of course they are going to say it’s fine.
they just want him to go away.

203 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:54:54pm

re: #197 albusteve

HC made a huge blunder moving into BOs camp…HUGE…she gave it all away

I think she saw all the power that Condi had and thought she would be the princess behind the throne.

204 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:55:00pm

re: #188 Joel

As the blog owner basically said (paraphrasing) - “you can change a few words here and there and the next president can give the exact same speech.”

Yes.

There were a few “Only Nixon could go to China” moments in it, but Obama doesn’t have RMN’s stature to help make his weight felt.

205 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:55:08pm

re: #200 screaming_eagle

Shhh, I’m gonna sale him beach-front property in Arizona.

Sattv4u2 beat ya to it

206 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:55:08pm

re: #201 MJ

hell, they didn’t take it in 1948 when the could have established Palestine alongside Israel.

They didn’t take it when Barak offered it to them.

They didn’t take it when Olmert offered it to them.

They didn’t take it when Sharon gave it to them.

Thanks ,,, my fingers were getting tired!

207 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:55:18pm

re: #166 Charles

According to the numbers on this page, the United States would be in the upper third of the largest Muslim countries.

Besides that it’s just a gaffe at best, he probably got that impression from talking with Biden or something. This is like “57 states” big deal. If you are hoping on gaffes winning next election you are dreaming, the general public isn’t really paying that much attention to these no matter how much we as conservatives want to relish it.

208 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:55:24pm

re: #171 Nevergiveup

I think Bush got worn down in the second term by the constant pounding he was taking from the MSM and Congress.

Yes that was part of it definitely. The calumny hurled at him was positively Nixonian.

209 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:55:44pm

re: #187 avanti

I know you are being sarcastic, but you may have nailed it. I was watching the news, and they were interviewing Muslims on the street, and many had sipped at least a bit of the Kool Aid. They were pleasantly surprised by the speech and one said something like I think Obama might give us our best chance for peace, I hope we take it. Hope and change, pass the Kool Aid.

Well, this picks up where you and I left off this morning. Tell me, what does a Muslim mean when they say “chance for peace?” What does that mean to them historically, politically and as regards to their religion?

The answer to this question has all to do with how YOU see peace and how they see peace.

210 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:56:17pm

that is,
go away AND shut his meddlesome platitude.

211 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:56:21pm

re: #196 Walter L. Newton

Bu population, we are not even in the top 50, we are at 52. By percentage, we aren’t even on the chart. How does that jive with Obama’s statement as “one of the largest Muslims Countries.”

We’re a light weight.

It may have been a bit of a reach, and it may have been stated clumsily, but his point that there are a lot of Muslims living in the United States is not false.

212 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:56:30pm

re: #203 FurryOldGuyJeans

I think she saw all the power that Condi had and thought she would be the princess behind the throne.

she’s an unsightly wart and Bill is a Haiti kinda guy now…we predicted all of it right here at LGF…all of it

213 freetoken  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:56:52pm

re: #198 SixDegrees


Either way, it isn’t a false statement.

More than the technical details of population statistics, I find the hand-wringing that the President’s statement has wrought in the Right-o-sphere enlightening.

214 screaming_eagle  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:57:04pm

re: #205 Nevergiveup

Sattv4u2 beat ya to it

I saw,I’m slow.

215 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:58:40pm

re: #212 albusteve

she’s an unsightly wart and Bill is a Haiti kinda guy now…we predicted all of it right here at LGF…all of it

albusteve … um … I get the ugly wart thing … but what is a Haiti kinda guy? …

216 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:58:42pm

re: #207 Thanos

Besides that it’s just a gaffe at best, he probably got that impression from talking with Biden or something. This is like “57 states” big deal. If you are hoping on gaffes winning next election you are dreaming, the general public isn’t really paying that much attention to these no matter how much we as conservatives want to relish it.

I agree — it’s a meaningless minor gaffe. And by harping on it, conservative bloggers achieve nothing but to lend support to the popular meme that they’re bigoted against Muslims.

217 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:58:51pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Well, this picks up where you and I left off this morning. Tell me, what does a Muslim mean when they say “chance for peace?” What does that mean to them historically, politically and as regards to their religion?

The answer to this question has all to do with how YOU see peace and how they see peace.

Ya know when I first got to LGF I didn’t get you and fought with you some and disagreed with you more. Now it’s like we are seeing eye to eye on most? Hum? Boy have you come around to my way of thinking!
/

218 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:59:21pm

I’m getting kinda worried all you guys talking about your panties.

219 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:59:28pm

re: #211 Charles

It may have been a bit of a reach, and it may have been stated clumsily, but his point that there are a lot of Muslims living in the United States is not false.

Er, you and I see it differently. I do see it as false, for a matter of fact, I the least, I see it as a terrible mistake, in the most, a bold-faced lie. Simple.

220 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:59:50pm

There used to be a lot of Christians living in the Arab world particularly in Egypt (Coptic) and of course Lebanon but that number is declining rapidly. As for the West Bank for example Bethlehem used to be 80% Christian but is now almost totally Islamic. Guess which nations Christian population in the Middle East is actually growing?

221 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:59:52pm

re: #141 Walter L. Newton

Correct, and we are not “one of the largest Muslim countries. He got that wrong. That’s a far cry from accurate.

You need to learn political speak. We are one of the largest, maybe not in the top 30 countries, but one of the largest if you compare the total number of countries. It a exaggeration to make a better point, deceptive, but not a lie. Sorta like I can sell you a new house for pennies a day, and not mention it could be a million pennies.
Let me know when politicians stop spinning shit to their advantage.

222 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:59:56pm

if history were a tower of rock, you could erode by one drip of water at a time, just as surly as if you blew it up with dynamite…liberals

223 houstonmike  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:00:11pm

So many are praising the fact that B Hussein Obama bravely ventured into mentioning the Holocaust. Oh, thank you oh great one for not denying the holocaust and saying 6 million Jews died in it…how courageous that must have been for you. Sheeesh, what kind of low expectations Obama had to meet for some if that is praiseworthy.

224 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:00:15pm

re: #211 Charles

It may have been a bit of a reach, and it may have been stated clumsily, but his point that there are a lot of Muslims living in the United States is not false.

How many gnats (or is it spelled “nit/s”?) can dance on the head of a pin?

*grin*
I’m glad I’m not runnin’ this blog

/you’re doing a good job

225 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:00:26pm

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

Er, you and I see it differently. I do see it as false, for a matter of fact, I the least, I see it as a terrible mistake, in the most, a bold-faced lie. Simple.

Two and a half million Muslims is the low estimate. That’s a lot of people. It’s not false to say there are a lot of Muslims in the US.

226 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:00:47pm

At least they did not get nuked by Iran today.

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:00:52pm

re: #14 Charles

I think it’s curious that Israel’s most right-wing government in many years is praising the speech, while US right-wing bloggers yell that Obama “threw Israel under the bus.”

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Israel plays hard-core politics to win. Folks on blogs live in blog-land. (Myself included).

It creates a somewhat different perspective.

228 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:00:54pm

re: #207 Thanos

Besides that it’s just a gaffe at best, he probably got that impression from talking with Biden or something. This is like “57 states” big deal. If you are hoping on gaffes winning next election you are dreaming, the general public isn’t really paying that much attention to these no matter how much we as conservatives want to relish it.

Thanos … Holy crap! … he gets his info from Biden … oh, man …

/just kidding … kinda … and I don’t think pointing out gaffes will win an election … and totally agree that most people don’t care anyway …

229 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:01:06pm

re: #218 Eowyn2

I’m getting kinda worried all you guys talking about your panties.

Well after getting frustrated about not being able to get into her panties, we took the hint and ….never mind.

230 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:01:16pm
231 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:02:12pm

re: #215 JacksonTn

albusteve … um … I get the ugly wart thing … but what is a Haiti kinda guy? …

MSNBC Video
232 screaming_eagle  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:02:21pm

re: #221 avanti

Let me know when politicians stop spinning shit to their advantage.

Let me know when you quit making excuses for the spinning shit.

233 traderjoe9  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:02:35pm

re: #223 houstonmike

So many are praising the fact that B Hussein Obama bravely ventured into mentioning the Holocaust. Oh, thank you oh great one for not denying the holocaust and saying 6 million Jews died in it…how courageous that must have been for you. Sheeesh, what kind of low expectations Obama had to meet for some if that is praiseworthy.

That’s pretty much the only reason Israel praised the speech. Mere recognition of the Holocaust is a victory.

234 SixDegrees  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:02:40pm

re: #213 freetoken

More than the technical details of population statistics, I find the hand-wringing that the President’s statement has wrought in the Right-o-sphere enlightening.

The fixation on trivialities lately is very disturbing. The Right ought to be mustering it’s troops for battle against the upcoming budget proposal, which has the potential to utterly bankrupt the nation if allowed to pass unchallenged and unchanged.

They could start by noting that less than 6% of the “stimulus” has been spent, that the economy is already beginning to right itself without it, and by demanding that the remainder of the colossal allocation be rescinded immediately.

235 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:01pm

re: #190 Nevergiveup

Avanti I like ya but I got this bridge here in Brooklyn for sale?

I look at our approval ratings going up a bunch in the Muslim world, our POTUS gets a friendly welcome around the world, not booed and yea, I’ll have another sip.

236 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:13pm

re: #231 albusteve

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com…]

albusteve … oh, that … yeah … thought it was his new girlfriend from Haiti …

/

237 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:25pm

re: #220 Joel

There used to be a lot of Christians living in the Arab world particularly in Egypt (Coptic) and of course Lebanon but that number is declining rapidly. As for the West Bank for example Bethlehem used to be 80% Christian but is now almost totally Islamic. Guess which nations Christian population in the Middle East is actually growing?

ooooh pick me (hand waving frantically in air)

Israel.

238 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:27pm

re: #216 Charles

I agree — it’s a meaningless minor gaffe. And by harping on it, conservative bloggers achieve nothing but to lend support to the popular meme that they’re bigoted against Muslims.

How many “gaffes’ makes an idiot, a person that shouldn’t be our representative to the world, I just want to know. When I go to work, I’m required to be right most of the time. Every time I “gaffe,” it makes my organization look bad, and after a while, if there is enough gaffes, then patrons will go elsewhere for the product.

Seems simple, doesn’t it?

239 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:32pm
240 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:44pm

re: #235 avanti

I look at our approval ratings going up a bunch in the Muslim world, our POTUS gets a friendly welcome around the world, not booed and yea, I’ll have another sip.

you are duped with ratings….another sip indeed

241 NY Nana  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:51pm

re: #174 Charles

I will not do it again, Charles.

I feel very passionately about Israel, after being blessed to grow up here during WWII, and was 10 when the State of Israel was declared. I have watched one tiny Israel fight again and again and yet again, and feel that it will be Israel that has to take out Iran, just as they did Iraq.

I feel that Obama is one of the most dangerous enemies of Israel and the Jews to ever hold the office of President. And I cannot, for the life of me, comprehend why so many Jews voted for him.

242 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:03:57pm

religions in the USA

Christian: (78.4%)
Protestant (51.3%)
Roman Catholic (23.9%)
LDS (1.7%)
Jehovah’s Witness (0.7%)
Orthodox (0.6%)
other Christian (0.3%)
no religion (16.1%)
Jewish (1.7%)
Buddhist (0.7%)
Muslim (0.6%)
Hindu (0.4%)
other (1.2%

243 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:04:09pm

re: #235 avanti

I look at our approval ratings going up a bunch in the Muslim world, our POTUS gets a friendly welcome around the world, not booed and yea, I’ll have another sip.

Yeah I lose alot of sleep at night worrying about our approval ratings around the world.

244 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:04:11pm

re: #229 Nevergiveup

Well after getting frustrated about not being able to get into her panties, we took the hint and ….never mind.


mankinis for everyone

245 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:04:48pm

re: #204 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yes.

There were a few “Only Nixon could go to China” moments in it, but Obama doesn’t have RMN’s stature to help make his weight felt.

Without the adoring media, Obama is basically a light weight intellectually. I do not think he is a great student of history at all (otherwise he would never have claimed his great uncle was involved in the liberation of Auschwitz) and I think he lacks a certain gravitas relying to much on the Mick Jagger rock star persona that hopefully will wear thin after the collective mass psychosis is over.

246 Maui Girl  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:04:58pm

re: #173 Persian Shoe

He’s been kissin alot of Muslim butt these past couple of days. I don’t think it’s facial hair…….

247 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:05:02pm

Making an easy target for lefties….
Sean Hannity’s complete break with reality

Sean Hannity once again proves that he’s the guy who put the ‘a’ in moron, this time by pushing the bizarre myth that earlier this week President Obama called the U.S. “a Muslim nation.”

(video)

President Obama:

If you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.

Sean Hannity:

He honors the national day of prayer behind closed doors. Now, on his Middle East apology tour, the President calls the U.S. a “Muslim nation.”

President Obama:

We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation, or a Jewish nation, or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens, who are bound by ideals.

Sean Hannity:

The same president who insists the U.S. is not a Christian nation is now calling us a Muslim nation.

Facts are too easy to check these days.A political narrative based on lies will be ignored by all but the dumbest people.

248 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:05:08pm

re: #236 JacksonTn

albusteve … oh, that … yeah … thought it was his new girlfriend from Haiti …

/

HAHAHA!…

249 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:05:11pm

re: #241 NY Nana

I will not do it again, Charles.

I feel very passionately about Israel, after being blessed to grow up here during WWII, and was 10 when the State of Israel was declared. I have watched one tiny Israel fight again and again and yet again, and feel that it will be Israel that has to take out Iran, just as they did Iraq.

I feel that Obama is one of the most dangerous enemies of Israel and the Jews to ever hold the office of President. And I cannot, for the life of me, comprehend why so many Jews voted for him.

Neither can I and it drives me crazy

250 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:05:16pm

re: #221 avanti

You need to learn political speak. We are one of the largest, maybe not in the top 30 countries, but one of the largest if you compare the total number of countries. It a exaggeration to make a better point, deceptive, but not a lie. Sorta like I can sell you a new house for pennies a day, and not mention it could be a million pennies.
Let me know when politicians stop spinning shit to their advantage.

And, in Avanti’s world, that makes it right. If anyone has ever wanted a definition or moral equivalency, read above.

251 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:05:38pm

re: #221 avanti

You need to learn political speak. We are one of the largest, maybe not in the top 30 countries, but one of the largest if you compare the total number of countries. It a exaggeration to make a better point, deceptive, but not a lie. Sorta like I can sell you a new house for pennies a day, and not mention it could be a million pennies.
Let me know when politicians stop spinning shit to their advantage.

Agreed. This was a political speech made to a muslim audience, with the intention of extending a hand to moderates while isolating extremists. Really not that different to what Bush did in his speeches, only perhaps more effective this time.

252 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:05:51pm

Here’s the thing.

Bush had his words twisted and distorted by the media and the left mercilessly. Every minor gaffe he was crucified. It was disgusting. GWB would say “the sky is blue”, and those on the left would scream bloody murder that the president has somehow damaged the color of the sky.

Excuse me if i don’t give the current president a pass.

253 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:06:03pm

re: #242 sattv4u2

Watch the video at #247

254 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:06:03pm

re: #243 Nevergiveup

Yeah I lose alot of sleep at night worrying about our approval ratings around the world.

Yeah I place a high value on being loved in Syria.

255 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:06:28pm

re: #237 Eowyn2

ooooh pick me (hand waving frantically in air)

Israel.

But National Geographic says Israel is persecuting the Christians!

256 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:06:56pm

re: #246 Maui Girl

He’s been kissin alot of Muslim butt these past couple of days. I don’t think it’s facial hair…….

ROFLMAO!

257 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:06:57pm

re: #235 avanti

re: #243 Nevergiveup

Yeah I lose alot of sleep at night worrying about our approval ratings around the world.

I also lose a lot of sleep hoping my son gives me a high approval rating

to ensure that, I let him do what he wants when he wants no questions asked!

//

258 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:07:30pm

re: #241 NY Nana

I will not do it again, Charles.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I don’t like it when LGF comments start reminding me of Pamela Geller rants.

259 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:07:59pm

re: #225 Charles

Two and a half million Muslims is the low estimate. That’s a lot of people. It’s not false to say there are a lot of Muslims in the US.

it is odd tho that given there are far more jews in america than moslems, he didn’t call us one of the largest jewish countries.

260 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:08:01pm

re: #225 Charles

Two and a half million Muslims is the low estimate. That’s a lot of people. It’s not false to say there are a lot of Muslims in the US.

He said, as per your quote above “one of the largest Muslim countries…”

Nothing on any of those charts on that Wiki page puts us anywhere in the top ANYTHING, or the one of the this or that.

You linked to the chart, I looked at the info on the charts, all over the, I can’t find anything on that page that would prove his statement.

It was a gaffe or a lie, but meaningless either way.

261 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:08:07pm

re: #254 Joel

Yeah I place a high value on being loved in Syria.

Well if Syria ever does get the Golan back I’ll feel satisfied that I peed and shat all over the Golan.

262 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:08:29pm

re: #240 albusteve

you are duped with ratings….another sip indeed

Another first for the One, vendors selling T shirts and Obama doo-dads in Cairo. I’m telling you, he’s exporting the Kool Aid.

263 VegasRick  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:09:11pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

Making an easy target for lefties….
Sean Hannity’s complete break with reality


Facts are too easy to check these days.A political narrative based on lies will be ignored by all but the dumbest people.

Kiligore, you sure have a lot of posts from kos lately. How do they feel about the tea parties?

264 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:09:24pm

re: #252 Racer X

Here’s the thing.

Bush had his words twisted and distorted by the media and the left mercilessly. Every minor gaffe he was crucified. It was disgusting. GWB would say “the sky is blue”, and those on the left would scream bloody murder that the president has somehow damaged the color of the sky.

Excuse me if i don’t give the current president a pass.

You don’t have to give him a pass. But it’s probably not a good idea to distort what he says, either — and he didn’t say that “America is a Muslim nation.”

265 houstonmike  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:09:27pm

RE: 233 TraderJoe9 “That’s pretty much the only reason Israel praised the speech. Mere recognition of the Holocaust is a victory.”

I agree trader Joe. Just think what that says for how Israel views Obama if they go:’Phew’ he mentioned the holocaust. If GWB gave a speech to the ‘Muslim world’ and he mentioned the holocaust do you think the Israeli government would be relieved or not surprised. I think not surprised…they wouldn’t even give it a second thought.

266 freetoken  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:09:37pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

A political narrative based on lies will be ignored by all but the dumbest people.

Perhaps you are underestimating the number of people out there who would, as you put it (unkindly, but maybe truthfully), dumbly accept a narrative based on lies.

267 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:09:40pm

Facts are too easy to check these days.A political narrative based on lies will be ignored by all but the dumbest people.

268 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:10:00pm

re: #252 Racer X

Here’s the thing.

Bush had his words twisted and distorted by the media and the left mercilessly. Every minor gaffe he was crucified. It was disgusting. GWB would say “the sky is blue”, and those on the left would scream bloody murder that the president has somehow damaged the color of the sky.

Excuse me if i don’t give the current president a pass.

Yes and the mantra of Bush being a moron was beaten like a drum endlessly. If Bush and his wife went out onto the town in NYC like Mr and Mrs Obama did, they would have been denounced as being insensitive to those American economically suffering. If Bush’s administration pulled that stunt with Air Force1 over Manhattan there would be guys like John Conyers drafting articles of impeachment. There is definitely a double standard. Gaffes happen to all of us no doubt about it, but Bush’s was fodder for Leno and Letterman while Obama’s are given a “mistakes happen” attitude.

269 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:10:21pm

re: #267 albusteve

Facts are too easy to check these days.A political narrative based on lies will be ignored by all but the dumbest people.

That’s already happening, apparently.

270 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:10:38pm

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?

271 traderjoe9  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:10:47pm

re: #259 nyc redneck

it is odd tho that given there are far more jews in america than moslems, he didn’t call us one of the largest jewish countries.


Well other than the constant whining, complaining, demanding, and finger-pointing, American’s Muslim community hasn’t done much noteworthy, that sometimes our representatives actually have to remind the world that they exist.

272 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:10:51pm

re: #228 JacksonTn

Thanos … Holy crap! … he gets his info from Biden … oh, man …

/just kidding … kinda … and I don’t think pointing out gaffes will win an election … and totally agree that most people don’t care anyway …

Yeah, I’ve been wondering if Biden’s dumb isn’t contagious.

273 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:10:54pm

Hmm. Some people seem to be saying “It’s our turn to be the idiots now, our turn I say! We will not be denied!”

274 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:10:58pm

re: #267 albusteve

Facts are too easy to check these days.A political narrative based on lies will be ignored by all but the dumbest people.

albusteve … or people who see the lies and vote for the person anyway …

/but that would never happen …

275 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:11:19pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?

Go figure, huh.

276 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:11:25pm

re: #269 Walter L. Newton

That’s already happening, apparently.

bad foo…
the quote was a perfect description of BO droolers and his supporters

277 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:11:30pm

re: #253 Killgore Trout

I saw it. In our previous discussion re: Hannity I was not defending him. Hell, it was ME that pointed out to YOU who Turner was and provided the link. I took exception to you posting that Turner was a frequent caller to Hannity (which was true) but that you did NOT include that Hannity had banned him (which you ommitted). I thought you did it on purpose. IF I was wrong I apologize. IF I was NOT wrong I would appreciate you retract that “some people just can’t help it” RE: KT Derangement Syndrome

278 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:11:51pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

How many “gaffes’ makes an idiot, a person that shouldn’t be our representative to the world, I just want to know. When I go to work, I’m required to be right most of the time. Every time I “gaffe,” it makes my organization look bad, and after a while, if there is enough gaffes, then patrons will go elsewhere for the product.

Seems simple, doesn’t it?

we fire people for too many gaffes

279 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:11:57pm

re: #261 Nevergiveup

Well if Syria ever does get the Golan back I’ll feel satisfied that I peed and shat all over the Golan.

Hopefully in a latrine

280 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:12:06pm

it’s a stretch for me to even pretend to understand his “america is one of the world’s largest moslem countries”, pronouncements.
it is beyond weird. even as to veracity. motivation.
why would he even feel compelled to say such a strange thing?
in france, no less.
lol

281 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:12:07pm

re: #272 Thanos

Yeah, I’ve been wondering if Biden’s dumb isn’t contagious.

Thanos … hey! … I have not had relations with that man …

/G-d love em …

282 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:12:11pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?

Absolutely; I criticized that part of his speech in my earlier post. I think that was the weakest section of it.

283 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:12:40pm

re: #274 JacksonTn

albusteve … or people who see the lies and vote for the person anyway …

/but that would never happen …

I simply cannot believe that was posted…

284 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:12:41pm

re: #279 Joel

Hopefully in a latrine

On the Golan? Are you kidding. I loved it up there.

285 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:12:52pm

re: #264 Charles

You don’t have to give him a pass. But it’s probably not a good idea to distort what he says, either — and he didn’t say that “America is a Muslim nation.”

What were his exact words btw?

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:13:23pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations - large and small - that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.

SNIP

Classic. Crap, but classic.

OK, quickish rant:

Israel does not ‘get to’ exist because of the Holocaust. The suffering of Palestinians is neither created by nor justified by, nor counterbalanced by Jewish history.

Israel exists, as a Jewish state, in a place where there has been a continuous Jewish community for three thousand plus years, a place where in the nineteenth century, many more Jews began to migrate to live and work the land. Where in the twentieth centuries, refugees poured in from Europe and the Arab world, because home, as Robert Frost pointed out, is where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in. That’s Jewish history. That’s history. People move around. People go where there’s work and safety.

We’re done justifying our existence. We exist. If we’re gonna try to figure out a way to end conflicts in the region, we have got to stop letting people, even U.S. Presidents, run this stupid narrative where we start by explaining that the bad stuff that happened to the Palestinians happened because of the bad stuff that happened to Jews in Europe. That’s not what happened.

Rant off. I have pages left to go, but I should stop.

287 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:13:32pm

re: #285 Racer X

What were his exact words btw?

I just posted the exact quote above.

288 SixDegrees  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:13:52pm

re: #260 Walter L. Newton

He said, as per your quote above “one of the largest Muslim countries…”

Nothing on any of those charts on that Wiki page puts us anywhere in the top ANYTHING, or the one of the this or that.

You linked to the chart, I looked at the info on the charts, all over the, I can’t find anything on that page that would prove his statement.

It was a gaffe or a lie, but meaningless either way.

In terms of number of Muslims per country, we’re in the top third or so.

This reminds me of the arguments made by the Left when the enormous contributions made by the US to all sorts of foreign aid efforts was brought up - the cash contributions, the contributions of food, clothing, medical supplies, the contributions of military transportation, on and on an on, dwarfing the contributions of all other countries combined. The Left’s response was: our contributions measured as a percentage of GNP were too small.

I just can’t get excited over this.

289 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:13:57pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?

Did you hear him misspell hijab? He actually said hajib. Hilarious

A hajib from Arabic was a government official in Al-Andalus (Spain) and Egypt.
290 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:03pm

re: #282 Charles

Absolutely; I criticized that part of his speech in my earlier post. I think that was weakest section of it.

I saw that, and I agree completely. While I think education is critical for women, it doesn’t mean much if they’re dead or forced into marriage where they will only be allowed to breed.

291 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:06pm

re: #282 Charles

Absolutely; I criticized that part of his speech in my earlier post. I think that was the weakest section of it.

I still gotta go with apologizing for the last 8 years of American Policy on foreign soil.

292 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:08pm

re: #278 Eowyn2

we fire people for too many gaffes

No, they get put on a ticket to be VP. Quayle/Biden.

293 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:10pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?

Wha ,,,, there’s something wrong with making women walk 5 steps arears!?!?!

////////////

294 traderjoe9  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:10pm

re: #265 houstonmike

RE: 233 TraderJoe9 “That’s pretty much the only reason Israel praised the speech. Mere recognition of the Holocaust is a victory.”

I agree trader Joe. Just think what that says for how Israel views Obama if they go:’Phew’ he mentioned the holocaust. If GWB gave a speech to the ‘Muslim world’ and he mentioned the holocaust do you think the Israeli government would be relieved or not surprised. I think not surprised…they wouldn’t even give it a second thought.


Thanks Mike. That’s pretty much what happened last night during dinner…I mentioned to my dad about some person claiming that “Hitler didn’t finish his job,” and my dad says, “well at least they recognize it.” Of course, it was as a joke, but sadly this has become reality for many Jews.

295 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:14pm
296 Desert Dog  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:35pm

Obama gives a great speech, no doubt about that. It’s when he actually implements policy that scares me. But, I will say in between the pandering and moral equivocating in that speech, he did say some things to the “Islamic World” that needed saying. Namely that the Palis cannot continue to use violence if they want peace and that our forays into Afghanistan and Pakistan are legit. (No mention of Iraq though….)

Will his words carry more with Muslims than GWB? Who knows.

297 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:41pm

re: #289 callahan23

I did notice that.

298 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:14:46pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?

I think good education is the most powerful method of dealing with issues like that that we have at our disposal.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:16:00pm

re: #60 doubter4444

It was just short for “Oh Jesus, what a load of hyperbolic crap.”

Look, the speech was not ground-breaking, in that any changes will take time, so at best it’s an attempt to start some new thinking, at worse lip-service to an issue that has been intractable for a 1000 years (or at least since 1973, which seems as long ago).

It really has not been going on for a thousand years, unless you want to also take all of Europe’s land squabbles and see them as one conflict that runs from before the fall of Rome through to the Balkans in the 90s.

300 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:16:30pm

re: #241 NY Nana

I will not do it again, Charles.

I feel very passionately about Israel, after being blessed to grow up here during WWII, and was 10 when the State of Israel was declared. I have watched one tiny Israel fight again and again and yet again, and feel that it will be Israel that has to take out Iran, just as they did Iraq.

I feel that Obama is one of the most dangerous enemies of Israel and the Jews to ever hold the office of President. And I cannot, for the life of me, comprehend why so many Jews voted for him.

I think that Obama will have the most indifferent (to be charitable) administration towards Israel since Eisenhower.

301 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:16:43pm

re: #298 Jimmah

I think good education is the most powerful method of dealing with issues like that that we have at our disposal.

But- he didn’t even mention them. Nor did he talk about homosexual persecution.

302 SummerSong  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:16:51pm

re: #135 Iron Fist

Well, folks, we just had an interesting thing. I had some medical equipment brought over, and the guy who delivered it was verych one of us.

Hard core Republican. Hard core Conservative. That isn’t that rare around here. Still, it is cool.

We aren’t alone. Not yet.

I have a doctor like that. Ever since he discovered we share a similar political stance, he actually follows me out of the office and into the waiting room, still talking politics and he doesn’t give a fig who hears him. You should see some of those faces in the waiting room.

303 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:17:16pm

re: #273 Jimmah

Hmm. Some people seem to be saying “It’s our turn to be the idiots now, our turn I say! We will not be denied!”

Some people may have that attitude - not me. I am not shy about pointing out Obama’s gaffes and mistakes. I am not going to gloss them over. Does that make me an idiot like the lunatic left?

304 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:17:30pm

re: #288 SixDegrees

In terms of number of Muslims per country, we’re in the top third or so.

This reminds me of the arguments made by the Left when the enormous contributions made by the US to all sorts of foreign aid efforts was brought up - the cash contributions, the contributions of food, clothing, medical supplies, the contributions of military transportation, on and on an on, dwarfing the contributions of all other countries combined. The Left’s response was: our contributions measured as a percentage of GNP were too small.

I just can’t get excited over this.

Did you look at the charts that Charles linked to? In population we were at 52, no where near the top third. In percentage, we are not even on the chart.

What are you talking about?

305 LSD  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:18:03pm

Suckers….

306 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:18:07pm

That brass ring of “Mideast Peace” is oh so shiny and out of reach. Obama will sweat bullets to make the bestest, biggest “Peace Plan” with the most Israeli concessions, the most expelled Jews, more land to give away and maybe even a certain number of “refugees” to swarm into a plucked-over Israel.

But, because the Palestinians “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity,” they will throw it all away if they don’t get exactly everything they want and then some.

It’s their nature.

307 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:18:12pm

re: #290 Sharmuta

I saw that, and I agree completely. While I think education is critical for women, it doesn’t mean much if they’re dead or forced into marriage where they will only be allowed to breed.

Educated women are more likely to challenge that sort of bullshit. One effect of raising the standard of women’s education is that it brings birth rates down.

308 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:18:18pm

When I first heard he was going to speak at Al Azhar, I actually groaned out loud. Now that I’ve seen the shots he took at radical islam I couldn’t think of a better spot.
The equivalent would be Zawahiri slamming US Conservatism from a podium at Yale.

/or dinnerjacket speaking at Columbia….

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:18:23pm

re: #71 justdanny

Obama can’t fix the many centurys old blood lust held by devout islam against those who denied Muhammed.

This dogmatic bloodlust will live as long as islam exists.

All of fiendish devout islam will continue to work for the death of ‘the people of the book’. Primarily the Jewish people of the book.

How is it possible then that so many of the great figures of the medieval Jewish world lived in Muslim countries? It’s not like the ‘fiendish devout Muslims’ didn’t know they were there, they gave them jobs and stuff.

310 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:18:37pm

this thread is getting flat out crazy…

311 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:19:04pm

re: #300 Joel

I think that Obama will have the most indifferent (to be charitable) administration towards Israel since Eisenhower.

And it was Eisenhower who forced Israel to withdraw from the Sinai without any tangible guarantees of non-belligerence from the Egyptians thus resulting in the 1967 war.

312 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:19:34pm

re: #302 SummerSong

I have a doctor like that. Ever since he discovered we share a similar political stance, he actually follows me out of the office and into the waiting room, still talking politics and he doesn’t give a fig who hears him. You should see some of those faces in the waiting room.

Your not my patient are you?

313 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:19:36pm

re: #193 traderjoe9


we’ll never see that footage on cnn

314 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:20:08pm

re: #288 SixDegrees

re: #304 Walter L. Newton

Country Population (2007) % Muslim Total number of Muslims

United States 301,139,947 0.8%[268] 2,350,000

315 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:20:21pm

re: #217 Nevergiveup

Ya know when I first got to LGF I didn’t get you and fought with you some and disagreed with you more. Now it’s like we are seeing eye to eye on most? Hum? Boy have you come around to my way of thinking!
/

It happened after my bris last month.
/

316 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:20:33pm

re: #310 albusteve

this thread is getting flat out crazy…

No suicide by Stinky trolling yet, so can’t be all that crazy yet.

317 freetoken  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:20:36pm

re: #310 albusteve

this thread is getting flat out crazy…

because….?

318 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:21:16pm

re: #310 albusteve

this thread is getting flat out crazy…

THIS one?

Like all our others are the essence of sanity !?!?!

/////

319 Desert Dog  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:21:24pm

re: #301 Sharmuta

But- he didn’t even mention them. Nor did he talk about homosexual persecution.

He wants them to like him, he could not push hard on “actual women’s rights” and forget about even mentioning homosexuals.

I have a few questions for the “Muslim World”…..Here’s our new President, offering a dialogue that others have perhaps neglected. What will you do with this now? Will the Arab countries around Israel join in this dialogue? Or, will you sit there and complain and encourage & fund the Palis to do your dirty work like you have been. Good intentions aside from Obama, I am afraid this will do little to change the hearts and minds of the people over there.

320 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:21:50pm

re: #310 albusteve

this thread is getting flat out crazy…

albusteve … hey … I like this band … Jack White ..Raconteurs … they play here some …

Youtube Video
321 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:21:54pm

OT: Defenseman has a new post at his blog

King of Sock Puppets

322 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:22:17pm

re: #306 Alouette

That brass ring of “Mideast Peace” is oh so shiny and out of reach. Obama will sweat bullets to make the bestest, biggest “Peace Plan” with the most Israeli concessions, the most expelled Jews, more land to give away and maybe even a certain number of “refugees” to swarm into a plucked-over Israel.

But, because the Palestinians “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity,” they will throw it all away if they don’t get exactly everything they want and then some.

It’s their nature.


Abba Eben. I’ll take Israel for $500

323 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:22:36pm

BB later, going to take a hike in the Rockie Mountians.

324 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:22:39pm

I probably owe the other Lizards a apology for my excessive Kool Aid high today. I’ve spent so much time on here listening to the predictions of speech that would be a disaster, that when it was pretty decent, I got a little tingle in my leg.
You know I like the POTUS, but I’ll try and calm down.

325 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:22:44pm

re: #318 sattv4u2

THIS one?

Like all our others are the essence of sanity !?!?!

/////

If we wanted sanity we could always go to Kos or HuffPo.

/ yes, it really is sarcasm, it wasn’t memorex no how.

326 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:22:59pm

re: #304 Walter L. Newton

Did you look at the charts that Charles linked to? In population we were at 52, no where near the top third. In percentage, we are not even on the chart.

What are you talking about?

Yes, the US is in the top third by number. Count it again.

327 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:23:18pm

re: #319 Desert Dog

Instead of allowing more student visas, why don’t we send doctors to the area to teach women why FGM is bad for their health?

328 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:23:26pm

re: #324 avanti

I probably owe the other Lizards a apology for my excessive Kool Aid high today. I’ve spent so much time on here listening to the predictions of speech that would be a disaster, that when it was pretty decent, I got a little tingle in my leg.
You know I like the POTUS, but I’ll try and calm down.

Avanti … Today? …

/just kidding … that was nice of you to post …

329 jcbunga  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:23:39pm

Let’s compare and contrast.

Reagan went to Berlin and in 2,672 words said, among other things:

“General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”

Obama, The One, the pre-eminent orator of our time, went to Cairo and in 5,849 words said, among other things:

“I know there has been controversy about the promotion of democracy in recent years, and much of this controversy is connected to the war in Iraq. So let me be clear: no system of government can or should be imposed upon one nation by any other.”

Within 3 years of Reagan’s words, the wall was down and so was the Soviet Union.

Top that, hot shot.

330 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:23:56pm

re: #320 JacksonTn

albusteve … hey … I like this band … Jack White ..Raconteurs … they play here some …


SWAMP MUSIC!….I like it already…it’s booked, I’m gonna nose around

331 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:24:01pm

re: #288 SixDegrees

re: #304 Walter L. Newton

Lemme try again.That last cut/ paste from Charles’s link didn;t worky too goody

United States,,, Population (2007) 301,139,947 Percentage that are Muslim0.8% (rank in the world[268]) ,, Number of Muslims 2,350,000

332 Desert Dog  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:24:20pm

re: #320 JacksonTn

Good stuff!

333 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:24:25pm

re: #163 Alouette

It depends on whose figures you’re citing. CAIR claims there are eleventy gazillion Muslims in the U.S. A more objective estimate (based on the number of mosques and their approximate membership) is closer to 2 million.

That’s about how many Muslims live in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Nowhere near one of the biggest Muslim communities in the world, even if you double it.

334 Maui Girl  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:24:51pm

re: #266 freetoken


Hmmmmm, the success of the Obama campaign is a good example.

335 Desert Dog  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:25:16pm

re: #329 jcbunga

Our evil democracy is just not everyone’s flavor, eh?

336 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:25:28pm

re: #263 VegasRick

Kiligore, you sure have a lot of posts from kos lately. How do they feel about the tea parties?


And Huffpo, too. Sadly the left side of the blogosphere is doing better fact checking these days.

337 Joel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:25:37pm

re: #311 Nevergiveup

And it was Eisenhower who forced Israel to withdraw from the Sinai without any tangible guarantees of non-belligerence from the Egyptians thus resulting in the 1967 war.

The Eisenhower administration so focused on Suez, virtually ignored the Hungarian uprising at the same time. His bludgeoning of France and Britain and his saving of Nasser had diplomatic ramifications for many decades. John Foster Dulles was a fraud as Sec. of State. Vice President Nixon considered our Suez policy in Oct. 1956 (the month that Don Larsen pitched his perfect game against my home town Brooklyn Dodgers) to have been a failure.

“Dull, Duller, Dulles” as Winston Churchill said.

338 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:25:45pm

re: #335 Desert Dog

Our evil democracy is just not everyone’s flavor, eh?

Then why do they keep coming here?

339 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:25:50pm

Here’s the page: click the little symbol next to “Total number of Muslims” to sort by number. The US is number 54, and there are more than 120 countries with fewer Muslims.

340 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:26:00pm

re: #326 Charles

Yes, the US is in the top third by number. Count it again.

but ranked #268 percentage wise in the world (from your link, if i’m reading the 1st chart correctly)

341 SummerSong  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:26:13pm

re: #312 Nevergiveup

Your not my patient are you?

I would be, if I could be! :)

342 jayzee  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:26:52pm

I think praise in the eye of the beholder. Ha’Aretz is pretty left. The more right wing Jerusalem Post has a more cautious interpretation of the PMs response:
[Link: www.jpost.com…]

Furthermore, I think the speech was disgusting. Not all of it, but this was enough for me:

Around the world the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries. And anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich.

Six million Jews were killed, more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless. It is ignorant, and it is hateful.

Threatening Israel with destruction or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews is deeply wrong and only serves to evoke in the minds of the Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people, Muslims and Christians, have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years, they’ve endured the pain of dislocation.

Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations, large and small, that come with occupation.

So let there be no doubt, the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity and a state of their own.

This moral equivalence between the holocaust and the Palestinian situation was beyond disgusting.

343 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:26:53pm

Oops, the link:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

344 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:27:52pm

re: #341 SummerSong

I would be, if I could be! :)

SS … um … a suggestion … make a really late afternoon appointment …

/I hear he drinks some late at night …. just kidding NGU …

345 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:28:07pm

re: #339 Charles

Here’s the page: click the little symbol next to “Total number of Muslims” to sort by number. The US is number 54, and there are more than 120 countries with fewer Muslims.


That is 1000% accurate. But by the same token there are probably that many countries with fewer PEOPLE than the state of Texas!

346 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:28:12pm

re: #259 nyc redneck

it is odd tho that given there are far more jews in america than moslems, he didn’t call us one of the largest jewish countries.

We actually are, that.

347 Desert Dog  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:28:23pm

re: #338 Nevergiveup

Then why do they keep coming here?

It’s the Golden Rule. Where they come from, who ever has the gold, rules. They ain’t sharing, so, they come here to get their own gold.

Yes, burn our flag, riot in the streets, chant “death to America”….but, when they get the chance to move here…BOOM…..they jump at it. So, I guess we do not suck as bad as they are claiming?

348 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:28:24pm

re: #303 Racer X

Some people may have that attitude - not me. I am not shy about pointing out Obama’s gaffes and mistakes. I am not going to gloss them over. Does that make me an idiot like the lunatic left?

Only if you go overboard and become an ultra partisan seether who can’t see past his own bias. I’m very non partisan about ultra partisan seethers btw- right or left, they’re extremely boring people to listen to.

349 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:28:35pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?


But its only been 100 years since western nations relinquished the ‘gotta have a man to protect you’ attitude where a woman literally relinquished everything to the man (father, brother, husband) and could not even hold property is some places.

Education has done wonders for the women of the west so it is a good place to start.
Rule of Thumb.

350 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:29:01pm

Y’know, within broad limits, I don’t care what he said.

No matter the content, just the appearance (clean and articulate) and fact that an American president addressed the Muslim world will make points with a lot of mainstream Muslims. That and five bucks will buy you a falafel lunch. Still, maybe it was a good thing. Certainly, the vision of seeing this done, is one reason many leftards thought we should have a president Obama Hussein Barack, so as long as we got one, we might as well see the whole show.

When I was thinking about posting this message, I was going to say, “The fact that the Islamic world could see an American Muslim standing there in a business suit talking any kind of sense, is meaningful on its own.” And then I realized, well, y’know, that wasn’t quite the situation. But I wonder how many shared that thought, anyway.

351 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:30:01pm

re: #344 JacksonTn

SS … um … a suggestion … make a really late afternoon appointment …

/I hear he drinks some late at night …. just kidding NGU …

Actually I start some mornings at 6 AM. That really is the time to see me. I am wide awake and ready to rumble. After 2-3 PM, youz taking your chances.

352 Bloodnok  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:30:07pm

re: #321 Sharmuta

OT: Defenseman has a new post at his blog

King of Sock Puppets

Wow. A fight between Rodan and Richard L. Kent, Esq. (the World’s Angriest Creationist).

I don’t know who I want to win. I only know that I want them both to lose.

353 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:30:09pm

I poured me a shot of ‘Old Irish ‘Paddy’ Whiskey’ just to bear the emotions of this subject.

354 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:30:23pm

re: #327 Sharmuta

Instead of allowing more student visas, why don’t we send doctors to the area to teach women why FGM is bad for their health?

shes a witch.

355 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:30:55pm

re: #347 Desert Dog

It’s the Golden Rule. Where they come from, who ever has the gold, rules. They ain’t sharing, so, they come here to get their own gold.

Yes, burn our flag, riot in the streets, chant “death to America”….but, when they get the chance to move here…BOOM…..they jump at it. So, I guess we do not suck as bad as they are claiming?

People do usually vote with their feet!

356 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:31:28pm

re: #349 Eowyn2

But its only been 100 years since western nations relinquished the ‘gotta have a man to protect you’ attitude where a woman literally relinquished everything to the man (father, brother, husband) and could not even hold property is some places.

Education has done wonders for the women of the west so it is a good place to start.
Rule of Thumb.

If we want to support female education, then these student visas 0bama would like to increase should be strictly for women. We take enough of their men.

357 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:31:32pm

Okay ,,, I’m going away again. The swarm of locusts (my son and his freinds) wants ice cream and we don;’t have any here!

Last week I made two whole baked chickens with sides for them. Funny thing. I don;t remember throwing away any bones !

358 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:31:34pm

re: #354 Eowyn2

shes a witch.

But she is our witch!
{Sharmuta}

359 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:31:37pm

BBL

360 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:31:58pm

re: #347 Desert Dog

It’s the Golden Rule. Where they come from, who ever has the gold, rules. They ain’t sharing, so, they come here to get their own gold.

Yes, burn our flag, riot in the streets, chant “death to America”….but, when they get the chance to move here…BOOM…..they jump at it. So, I guess we do not suck as bad as they are claiming?

I got a call from an anti capitalist group asking the capitalist business for a donation.

361 NY Nana  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:34:35pm

re: #258 Charles

Thank you, I appreciate that. I don’t like it when LGF comments start reminding me of Pamela Geller rants.

Rants? You are too kind. Thank you, Charles. I do not think that any banned poster in my memory ever was such a disgrace when she went spare, and especially what she said to and about you, her ‘blog daddy’…and keeps on saying. I hope that people see through her. And you did not ban her for awhile, IIRC. I honestly thought that she would email you with a much-deserved apology. A public one was what was actually due.

And she is so sure that she is always right…she dare not look into a mirror to see the real Atlas…..whoops, she probably blogs in front of a full-length mirror to see herself as much as possible.

Pathetic.

362 screaming_eagle  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:34:51pm

re: #360 Eowyn2

I got a call from an anti capitalist group asking the capitalist business for a donation.

The Democrats wanted money from you?

363 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:35:10pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

If we want to support female education, then these student visas 0bama would like to increase should be strictly for women. We take enough of their men.

I’ll get behind that. AND the education should be meaningful. They need medical, engineering, etc. A couple of western civ classes would be optimal too HOWEVER, I draw the line at ‘Muslim Studies’ degrees and home economics degrees.
A person can spend 10 years in college and not really learn anything.

and with that I really gotta go.

364 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:35:37pm

re: #245 Joel

Without the adoring media, Obama is basically a light weight intellectually. I do not think he is a great student of history at all (otherwise he would never have claimed his great uncle was involved in the liberation of Auschwitz) and I think he lacks a certain gravitas relying to much on the Mick Jagger rock star persona that hopefully will wear thin after the collective mass psychosis is over.

(back in later)

You’re right.

365 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:35:38pm

re: #362 screaming_eagle

The Democrats wanted money from you?

ALWAYS,,,,

366 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:35:49pm

re: #362 screaming_eagle

The Democrats wanted money from you?

a peace group that held an anti-capitolist demonstration a couple months ago.

367 enoughalready  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:36:24pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

I’m concerned he thinks the only issues for muslim women is education and hijab. What about their right to determine their own lives? What about FGM and honor killings?

Not to be annoying or anything but honor killings aren’t exactly specific to practitioners of Islam (neither is female genital mutilation, it is perhaps also important to remember that the custom is older than pretty much every religion currently practised. Still it is in practice in christian, jewish and muslim communities. Perhaps not really a subject for this particular speech since as far as I know it’s not only illegal in Egypt but there is also a fatwa against it. Double secret probation right there.). Honor related violence against women is endemic pretty much everywhere (yes that includes the western world as well). Perhaps we should make sure that a few fewer women were murdered back home because they wanted to leave their husbands/boyfriends etc.

/rant off - I am sorry but this honor killing trip that some people like really irks me since so many women each year get murdered, raped or just plain beaten beyond belief by the person they love and I refuse to let that become a uniquely muslim problem since it’s everywhere

368 MJ  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:36:41pm

re: #261 Nevergiveup

Well if Syria ever does get the Golan back I’ll feel satisfied that I peed and shat all over the Golan.

Syria will get the Golan back. All they have to do is say Yes.

369 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:36:42pm

Sources in the Palestinian Authority expressed their satisfaction with Barack Obama’s speech in Cairo on Thursday, stressing the fact that the American president did mention the word “terror” even once

they were pleased with the fact that Obama did not differentiate between isolated Israeli settlements and the settlement blocs as a whole, as well as with his call to stop Palestinian “suffering”.

“Obama did not use the word ‘terror’ even when speaking of al-Qaeda, and used ‘violence’ instead; he did not speak like (former US President) George W. Bush. Obama understands that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the root cause of instability in the Middle East, and therefore we can we be calm; it is the Israelis who should be worried,” he said

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…]

Wonderful Dandy Fine. But of course devoid of reality

370 screaming_eagle  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:37:04pm

re: #366 Eowyn2

a peace group that held an anti-capitolist demonstration a couple months ago.

I figured some wierd group, but couldn’t pass up the joke.

371 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:37:32pm

re: #358 callahan23

But she is our witch!
{Sharmuta}

how do you know she’s a witch?

372 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:37:57pm

re: #362 screaming_eagle

The Democrats wanted money from you?

The Democrats wanted even more money from you?

373 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:38:55pm

re: #353 callahan23

I poured me a shot of ‘Old Irish ‘Paddy’ Whiskey’ just to bear the emotions of this subject.

Speaking of Irish..Our famous Dr. C went to a conference at the Royal Irish Academy the other day discussing Anti-Matter and the new Dan Brown Book..
Great read.. Dr. C. can bring the most complex issues in the world today…Deep Shit.. And explain it to the layman.. He is a very special scientist..

374 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:39:07pm

re: #367 enoughalready

Still it is in practice in christian,

I’ve been a Ronam Catholic for 55 years.

We have some weird ass rituals and beleifs,granted, but in all those years I have never known one of “us” to practice an “honor killing” and every Catholic girl I ever dated had all of her ,, well,, HER !

375 brookly red  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:39:12pm

re: #368 MJ

Syria will get the Golan back. All they have to do is say Yes.

I don’t know about that…

376 Onslow  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:39:33pm

“And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.’”

The notion that a country which contains .16% of the world’s Muslims has one of the largest Muslim populations is unutterably stupid.


[2,350,000/1,449,765,439]*100=.16%

377 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:39:38pm

re: #367 enoughalready

Although it is everywhere, the way society feels about the perp should give you some standard of where that civilization is.

378 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:39:42pm

re: #367 enoughalready

You’re not wrong about violence against women, but in the West, when a man kills a woman, he faces justice.

In countries like Jordan- they never face justice. In Saudi Arabia, it is women who get punished with lashes for even being out in public with a man to whom they’re not related. There is no equal justice for women in the middle east.

379 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:40:01pm

re: #376 Onslow

“And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.’”

The notion that a country which contains .16% of the world’s Muslims has one of the largest Muslim populations is unutterably stupid.

[2,350,000/1,449,765,439]*100=.16%

380 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:40:26pm

re: #373 HoosierHoops

Speaking of Irish..Our famous Dr. C went to a conference at the Royal Irish Academy the other day discussing Anti-Matter and the new Dan Brown Book..
Great read.. Dr. C. can bring the most complex issues in the world today…Deep Shit.. And explain it to the layman.. He is a very special scientist..

Might what a link….Crap!
[Link: coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com…]

381 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:40:39pm

re: #371 Eowyn2

how do you know she’s a witch?

She turned me into a newt.

(I got better)

382 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:40:46pm

re: #370 screaming_eagle

i liked it

383 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:41:02pm

re: #59 Charles

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think this was a terrific speech or anything. But I do think that some bloggers and commentators are way off base with their vehement criticisms of it. It wasn’t bad. It was pretty reasonable, overall, and had some sections that I thought were actually very good.

If you just read it without knowing who gave the speech, and someone told you it was a speech by George W. Bush, I don’t think you would have been able to tell that it wasn’t.

Charles -

Exactly. Except for the nuance, it was Barack W.Obushma. Words are words, deeds will tell. That is all.

-S-

384 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:41:24pm

Rape victims are stoned to death in islamic countries.

385 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:41:52pm

re: #374 sattv4u2

Still it is in practice in christian,

I’ve been a Ronam Catholic for 55 years.

We have some weird ass rituals and beleifs,granted, but in all those years I have never known one of “us” to practice an “honor killing” and every Catholic girl I ever dated had all of her ,, well,, HER !

Good Lord, you got far enough on a date with a Catholic girl to find out about the state of her HER?

///sorry, daughter of an Irish cop here, can’t help self

386 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:41:54pm

re: #379 albusteve

bad foo…

I agree and further I thought it was a ridiculous reach by BO….very small, disputable gesture that illustrates his shallowness more than anything

387 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:42:41pm

re: #384 Sharmuta

Rape victims are stoned to death in islamic countries.

Shh!
Bambi’s eating his waffle.

388 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:42:56pm

re: #380 HoosierHoops

Might what a link….Crap!
[Link: coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com…]

HH … and I think he is cute too … in a mackeral snapper kind of way …

/not sure if that is the way you say that … I learned it here .. oh, and yeah, I am a mackeral snapper too …

389 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:42:56pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

Good Lord, you got far enough on a date with a Catholic girl to find out about the state of her HER?

///sorry, daughter of an Irish cop here, can’t help self

well ,, we HAD been married for 7 years 1st !
///

390 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:43:06pm

re: #303 Racer X

Some people may have that attitude - not me. I am not shy about pointing out Obama’s gaffes and mistakes. I am not going to gloss them over. Does that make me an idiot like the lunatic left?

not at all.
it was appalling how the left treated pres. bush.
there were literally over 100 books out at one point saying the most vile things abt. him. plays making fun of him, comedians still telling jokes at his expense, the msm skewering him. and currently, politicians, including o,himself, still blaming him. fck them.
the left would love to silence us to the point where this thug socialist totus gets to work his schemes w/ no opposition at all.
we should be speaking up more. and people will be.

391 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:43:09pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

You’re not wrong about violence against women, but in the West, when a man kills a woman, he faces justice.

In countries like Jordan- they never face justice. In Saudi Arabia, it is women who get punished with lashes for even being out in public with a man to whom they’re not related. There is no equal justice for women in the middle east.

I think that in Iran they beat/fine both parties when an unmarried couple goes out walking though. Persians have always been progressive.

392 Desert Dog  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:43:18pm

re: #360 Eowyn2

I got a call from an anti capitalist group asking the capitalist business for a donation.

Like the “Anarchists” protesting while wearing Nikes, listening to their iPods, sipping their Starbucks. Under their preferred system they would be shoeless, listening to nothing, drinking water from a river.

393 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:43:54pm

How many girls died in that islamic school fire because they weren’t wearing their abyahs? Education really helped those girls.

394 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:44:06pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

I feel it in the force..Somebody is going to link a youtube of Zappa playing Catholic girls
I miss him…

395 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:44:21pm

re: #389 sattv4u2

well ,, we HAD been married for 7 years 1st !
///

Well, I guess herself isn’t a total hoor then, so.

////////////////////////////Oh God////////////////////////////

396 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:44:52pm

re: #393 Sharmuta

How many girls died in that islamic school fire because they weren’t wearing their abyahs? Education really helped those girls.

ghastly…inhuman beyond words….these are the people BO bows to

397 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:45:46pm

re: #396 albusteve

ghastly…inhuman beyond words….these are the people BO bows to

The problem with us and the Saudi’s collective ass goes a whole lot deeper than President Obama.

398 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:46:15pm

re: #394 HoosierHoops

Who was Zappa?

Sounds like the name of a contemporary of Pancho Villa, if I’m not mistaken

/jerking your chain

399 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:46:21pm

re: #394 HoosierHoops

I feel it in the force..Somebody is going to link a youtube of Zappa playing Catholic girls
I miss him…

Zappa sucks…a cult at best…I saw him at several places along his incarnation and every show was a bust…that’s the reality of Zappa

400 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:46:51pm

re: #399 albusteve

Zappa sucks…a cult at best…I saw him at several places along his incarnation and every show was a bust…that’s the reality of Zappa

yet you went back !

401 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:47:27pm

re: #400 sattv4u2

yet you went back !

searching….searching….

402 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:48:23pm

re: #401 albusteve

searching….searching….

sucker, sucker ;)

403 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:48:39pm

re: #399 albusteve

re: #400 sattv4u2

yet you went back !

ME!?!?! don’t like the movie, I walk out,, then I do NOT rent it 3 months later via BlockBuster

It’s going to be the SAME MOVIE I walked out on !

404 Racer X  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:48:46pm

re: #399 albusteve

Zappa sucks…a cult at best…I saw him at several places along his incarnation and every show was a bust…that’s the reality of Zappa

You are kidding right?

I only saw Zappa once. It was an amazing show. The band was tight.

405 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:49:06pm
406 avanti  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:49:17pm

The Arab presses reaction to the speech.
News Pretty much all of the front page stuff.

407 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:49:30pm

Congratulations to JWF. He’s rated 45 on some Best Blogs list

408 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:49:47pm

re: #402 FurryOldGuyJeans

sucker, sucker ;)

yup…yup…

409 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:49:55pm

re: #367 enoughalready

Criticism of the Muslim practice of honour killings is not precluded just because spousal abuse also occurs from other non-religious causes.

410 MJ  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:50:14pm

re: #375 brookly red

I don’t know about that…

That’s been the deal for 20 years or more now. Syria won’t bite though. The Alawites need Israel to deflect the population away from their minority rule.

411 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:50:19pm

re: #407 Killgore Trout

Congratulations to JWF. He’s rated 45 on some Best Blogs list

You Go, JAMMIE!

412 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:50:34pm

re: #404 Racer X

You are kidding right?

I only saw Zappa once. It was an amazing show. The band was tight.

good for you…that’s what it’s all about

413 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:50:43pm

re: #407 Killgore Trout

It was the Latvian Blonde Parade that probably put him in the top 50.

414 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:51:18pm

re: #388 JacksonTn

HH … and I think he is cute too … in a mackeral snapper kind of way …

/not sure if that is the way you say that … I learned it here .. oh, and yeah, I am a mackeral snapper too …

I remember a couple of years ago Dr. Pamela Gay linked to Dr. C…
He is a genius..But I remember how he first started blogging some heavy stuff but would spend time talking about how he and his mum walked the countryside in Ireland on quiet sundays.. How he struggled with honestly with life and science with his Mom..and on his blog…Not only is Dr. C one of the smartest men in the world..He is a straight up good guy…
And yeah girls..He is pretty handsome for a geek…

415 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:51:22pm

re: #393 Sharmuta

How many girls died in that islamic school fire because they weren’t wearing their abyahs? Education really helped those girls.

some of those girls got out but were actually pushed back in by the “morals” police. how horrifying when the powers that be decided young girls should be burned alive because they are not “properly” dressed. ropma.

416 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:51:33pm

re: #413 Fenway_Nation

Those lists don’t like LGF anymore.

417 Canoe Train  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:51:36pm

re: #367 enoughalready

One beef I have about this is that if it is wrong to treat a woman that way, then you should act as if it is wrong to treat every person that way. Some here who correctly become angry of this mistreatment of women do and say nothing when men get treated this way as well. No person should get treated this way, male or female.

418 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:53:01pm

This was seriously not a joke:

Ha-Ha! Ape study traces evolution of laughter
Jun. 4, 2009 12:34 PM
Associated Press

NEW YORK - When scientists set out to trace the roots of human laughter, some chimps and gorillas were just tickled to help. Literally.

That’s how researchers made a variety of apes and some human babies laugh. After analyzing the sounds, they concluded that people and great apes inherited laughter from a shared ancestor that lived more than 10 million years ago.

Experts praised the work. It gives very strong evidence that ape and human laughter are related through evolution, said Frans de Waal of the Yerkes National Primate Research Center at Emory University in Atlanta.

419 Hawaii69  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:53:02pm

re: #339 Charles

Here’s the page: click the little symbol next to “Total number of Muslims” to sort by number. The US is number 54, and there are more than 120 countries with fewer Muslims.

On the other hand, there seem to be a lot of people who think “Muslim World” means “Middle East/Arab World”,
when only 20% of the worlds Muslims live there.

420 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:53:12pm

re: #399 albusteve

Zappa sucks…a cult at best…I saw him at several places along his incarnation and every show was a bust…that’s the reality of Zappa

Well Bro..Music is like wine..We can all disagree and all still be right at the same time..
/You learn that shit growing up in Napa Valley

421 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:53:51pm

re: #415 nyc redneck

some of those girls got out but were actually pushed back in by the “morals” police. how horrifying when the powers that be decided young girls should be burned alive because they are not “properly” dressed. ropma.

But at least they were educated. ///

422 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:53:51pm

re: #384 Sharmuta

Rape victims are stoned to death in islamic countries.

Sharmuta -

In Islamic Nations they get the Death Penalty of Crucifixion and Beheading Bass Ackwards - why should they be any different on punishing rapists, pray tell?

-S-

423 jcm  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:54:00pm

re: #418 FurryOldGuyJeans

This was seriously not a joke:

Ha-Ha! Ape study traces evolution of laughter
Jun. 4, 2009 12:34 PM
Associated Press

Well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle, apes have the last laugh after all.

424 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:54:16pm

re: #418 FurryOldGuyJeans

This was seriously not a joke:

Ha-Ha! Ape study traces evolution of laughter
Jun. 4, 2009 12:34 PM
Associated Press

I knew there was sumthin’ funny about that evolution stuff…

425 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:54:23pm

re: #342 jayzee

I think praise in the eye of the beholder. Ha’Aretz is pretty left. The more right wing Jerusalem Post has a more cautious interpretation of the PMs response:
[Link: www.jpost.com…]

Furthermore, I think the speech was disgusting. Not all of it, but this was enough for me:

This moral equivalence between the holocaust and the Palestinian situation was beyond disgusting.

I don’t think moral equivalence was intended. It was just another stupid gaffe.

426 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:54:26pm

re: #420 HoosierHoops

Well Bro..Music is like wine..We can all disagree and all still be right at the same time..
/You learn that shit growing up in Napa Valley with hippy parents

///

427 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:55:06pm

re: #420 HoosierHoops

Well Bro..Music is like wine..We can all disagree and all still be right at the same time..
/You learn that shit growing up in Napa Valley

it’s the experience at the end…if you dig it, that’s all that matters…I’ve seen hundreds of live gigs…you never know what people will take away from them…

428 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:55:09pm

re: #417 Canoe Train

One beef I have about this is that if it is wrong to treat a woman that way, then you should act as if it is wrong to treat every person that way. Some here who correctly become angry of this mistreatment of women do and say nothing when men get treated this way as well. No person should get treated this way, male or female.

I don’t know who you’re talking about, but there are people here who take issue with sexism against men.

429 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:55:48pm

re: #419 Hawaii69

On the other hand, there seem to be a lot of people who think “Muslim World” means “Middle East/Arab World”,
when only 20% of the worlds Muslims live there.

Well…..if Indonesia was our 57th state, wouldn’t that make us one of the top 10 muslim countries?

430 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:56:05pm

re: #427 albusteve

it’s the experience at the end…if you dig it, that’s all that matters…I’ve seen hundreds of live gigs…you never know what people will take away from them…

I took a case of crabs away from one once!

oooppppss ,,, did I type that out loud !?!?!?!

431 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:57:01pm

In jordan, usually the killer in an honor killing turns himself into police. He’s then usually released and nothing happens after that. No trial, no punishment. They can murder their women at will.

432 enoughalready  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:57:15pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

You’re not wrong about violence against women, but in the West, when a man kills a woman, he faces justice.

In countries like Jordan- they never face justice. In Saudi Arabia, it is women who get punished with lashes for even being out in public with a man to whom they’re not related. There is no equal justice for women in the middle east.

A harder push for self determination in my opinion would have included talking about equal standing in legal terms (this would then require legal changes in countries like Jordan, Syria, Morocco and the PNA if we speak only of the muslim countries and ignore Argentina, Brazil and a number of other Latin American countries). And don’t get me started on the medieval assholes of KSA. If I had it my way the house of Fahd would have been history as of 9/12 2001.

433 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:57:35pm

And Jordan’s supposed to be an example of moderation!

434 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:57:45pm

re: #423 jcm

Well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle, apes have the last laugh after all.

I thought it’d make you turn turtle.

*waves hand*

435 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:57:57pm

re: #428 Sharmuta

I don’t know who you’re talking about, but there are people here who take issue with sexism against men.

I was mystified by that comment also!

(but then again, toast amazes me ,,, I mean ,how does it do that!?!?!?)

436 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:58:05pm

re: #417 Canoe Train

One beef I have about this is that if it is wrong to treat a woman that way, then you should act as if it is wrong to treat every person that way. Some here who correctly become angry of this mistreatment of women do and say nothing when men get treated this way as well. No person should get treated this way, male or female.

Misandry is as disgusting as misogyny.

437 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:58:13pm

re: #433 Sharmuta

And Jordan’s supposed to be an example of moderation!

Because the kingie went to a snooty British prep school and his wife is hot!

438 nyc redneck  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:58:27pm

re: #428 Sharmuta

I don’t know who you’re talking about, but there are people here who take issue with sexism against men.

many of us have discussed the terrible treatment of gay men in islamic countries.
o should have mentioned it.

439 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:59:03pm

re: #433 Sharmuta

The Jordanians will also (on occasion) jail the women who complain that they could be killed for “honour”…

440 soxfan4life  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:59:13pm

re: #430 sattv4u2

I took a case of crabs away from one once!

oooppppss ,,, did I type that out loud !?!?!?!


We were training at Fort Polk LA and 1 base camp got crabs from the Portajohn, should of seen the explaining to the wives on our return.

441 jcm  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:59:30pm

re: #434 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I thought it’d make you turn turtle.

*waves hand*

We know who’ll be around, turtles have their own asteroid shelters.

442 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:59:50pm

re: #428 Sharmuta

I don’t know who you’re talking about, but there are people here who take issue with sexism against men.

Sexism takes a step back in Nevada:

Nev. brothel hopes male prostitutes boost business
Jun. 4, 2009 01:05 PM
Associated Press

LAS VEGAS - The owner of a Nevada brothel suffering from the recession thinks she has been ignoring about half the market - the half that prefers men.

Bobbi Davis is looking for male prostitutes to help expand the clientele at the Shady Lady Ranch, her small roadside brothel about 150 miles north of Las Vegas.

“We’ve had requests for men in the past, and there’s nothing else like this out there,” she said.

Indeed, the 25 legal brothels scattered throughout 10 rural Nevada counties are staffed by women and cater to men. The Shady Lady, however, isn’t the only one thinking about hiring male prostitutes.

Nevada Brothel Association lobbyist George Flint says other brothels have approached him with the idea lately to drum up business.

443 enoughalready  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 4:59:52pm

re: #409 Spare O’Lake

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

444 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:00:02pm

re: #440 soxfan4life

We were training at Fort Polk LA and 1 base camp got crabs from the Portajohn, should of seen the explaining to the wives on our return.

That was all your story, and you all stuck too it, huh!

//

445 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:00:18pm

re: #433 Sharmuta

And Jordan’s supposed to be an example of moderation!

a continuing fraud…Islam is so flawed that hell will freeze over before I’m comfortable with it…where is the voice of moderation?….where are ‘enlightened’ Islamists?….decency and justice are alien to them by our standards

446 jcm  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:00:31pm

Ricin found in Everett home

EVERETT, Wash. — A federal hazmat team searching a home where a substance believed to be ricin was found.

Police said they first found a substantial amount of the substance on Wednesday at a home in the 1200 block of 50th Street Southwest after first responding to a domestic violence call at the residence on Monday.

Police contacted the FBI, who brought in a hazmat team to search the home.

FBI spokesperson Robbie Burroughs said the found substance appears to be Ricin, but only further testing would positively identify it as the toxin.

447 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:00:31pm

Gus 802? Killgore? How’s the weather out your way?

448 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:01:10pm

re: #438 nyc redneck

many of us have discussed the terrible treatment of gay men in islamic countries.
o should have mentioned it.

I’ve gone further, and I’ve said islam is just as anti-man as it is anti-woman. Men are taught to see their women as shameful, and yet they’re supposed to desire these creatures. It’s warped, and I think it’s harmful to men.

449 soxfan4life  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:01:29pm

re: #442 FurryOldGuyJeans


Maybe the brothels can get a fed bailout. A federal subsidy to cater to the gay community.

450 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:01:45pm

re: #443 enoughalready

That’s quite a stretch there, EA.

451 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:02:35pm

re: #376 Onslow

“And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.’”

The notion that a country which contains .16% of the world’s Muslims has one of the largest Muslim populations is unutterably stupid.

[2,350,000/1,449,765,439]*100=.16%

He didn’t say “if you took the percentage of Muslims,” he said “if you took the number of Muslims.” And as I’ve pointed out twice now, this statement, while it may be a bit of a reach, is NOT false. By number of Muslims, the US is in the top third of the world’s countries.

452 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:02:35pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

It’s considered a crime in the West. Not so in many islamic communities.

453 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:02:43pm

re: #450 itellu3times

That’s quite a stretch there, EA.

I think the rubber band broke, it was stretched so much.

454 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:02:53pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

WOW ,, what a stretch

A crime of passion eqauted to a religious execution (one that in many cases has the blessing of the Imam BEFORE the fact)!
I am POSITIVE that if I went to my priest and told him I was going to kill my wife because she had a coffee with another man, he would bless me !

WOW


The only leg you have to stand on is that they are both MURDER.

455 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:03:22pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

The question is whether or not the society condones it. Around here, you kill your girlfriend/wife/sister/cousin becuase of her behavior, you go to jail

456 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:03:27pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

‘nuff -

The difference is THIS. Law in the “West” more or less has evolved to the point of NOT Tolerating such Behavior. It has not - AS YET - in the “Ummah.”
That is all - on this subject.

-S-

457 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:03:40pm

re: #427 albusteve

it’s the experience at the end…if you dig it, that’s all that matters…I’ve seen hundreds of live gigs…you never know what people will take away from them…

Remember this morning lizards were talking about top 10 albums of all?
Which is a jip..Cause If I’m have to choose..I need to knock it down to 1TB of MP3’s.
But a double Album of blues…./Covers up for incoming
Hooker&Heat I’d take to an Island with me…..I feel in love with that session

458 soxfan4life  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:03:59pm

re: #444 sattv4u2

That was all your story, and you all stuck too it, huh!

//


I lived in the barracks at that time so had no dog in that hunt. But we had command intervention with the family support group in an attempt to minimize home problems affcting our deployment to Bosnia.

459 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:04:03pm

re: #443 enoughalready

Are such things culturally accepted in the US as they are in Islamic societies? Nope, they are prosecuted as the crimes they are.

460 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:05:23pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

Our society and government do not tolerate it the way Islamic society and government do.

461 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:05:36pm

re: #457 HoosierHoops

Remember this morning lizards were talking about top 10 albums of all?
Which is a jip..Cause If I’m have to choose..I need to knock it down to 1TB of MP3’s.
But a double Album of blues…./Covers up for incoming
Hooker&Heat I’d take to an Island with me…..I feel in love with that session

say you get ten records in three different categories…much more interesting…ten of the best records becomes almost abstract imo

462 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:07:34pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

Honour killing is a very special thing precisedly because it is religiously based and sanctioned control. This cause-effect relationship leads to an indictment of the religious structures, unlike in the other examples cited.

463 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:08:00pm

Many years ago there was a story here at LGF how one palestinian family had so many of its women killed for honor that the rest of the women in the family finally spoke up and turned in the killer. (Usually the family knows who the killer is, but remains quite so that no charges are pressed if it is considered a crime.) Well, of course, for turning in the killer, the women had to go to a shelter to protect themselves from the rest of the men in the family.

I’d say violence against women in other cultures is a bit better than this. It’s not systemic in the West like it is in the middle east.

464 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:08:18pm

re: #423 jcm

Well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle, apes have the last laugh after all.

Not really, we all laugh together, at the creationists.

465 enoughalready  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:10:11pm

re: #459 FurryOldGuyJeans

Are such things culturally accepted in the US as they are in Islamic societies? Nope, they are prosecuted as the crimes they are.

The same goes for a bunch of countries in Latin America right now. And the crime of passion of the Napoleonic code is not that long gone in most western nations either so it’s not as if we have a long history of being that much nicer to look back on.
It’s been estimated that there are 5 000 honor killings worldwide every year. Compare that with the figures for women killed by their partner worldwide every year and you will find that the 5 000 will effectively be a mere drop in the ocean (what is it, over a 1 000 every year just in the US?). Regardless of whether it is legal or not it is not an issue where we can say that we have made such major leaps that we have a moral high ground. In fact, the current state of things is that women are in a shitty position worldwide. It’s just slightly less shitty in certain places.

466 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:10:26pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

You’re correct that honor killings are not “uniquely” Muslim. However, in many Islamic countries — even supposedly moderate ones like Jordan — the laws against killing wives or daughters are appallingly slanted in favor of the killers. Islamist factions in Jordan have specifically voted down laws that would toughen penalties for honor killers, time and again. There have been several posts at LGF on the subject.

467 callahan23  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:10:30pm

re: #461 albusteve

What would the categories be? A suggestion:
No.1 Jazz, Blues, Soul
No.2 R&B, Funk, Hip-Hop
No.3 Rock, Pop

468 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:10:51pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

EA … what are you smoking? … normally I would say don’t bogart … in this case … keep that shit to yourself …

469 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:11:23pm

re: #447 EmmmieG

Thunderstorm blowing in now. No rain yet but lots of wind.

470 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:11:56pm

re: #467 callahan23

What would the categories be? A suggestion:
No.1 Jazz, Blues, Soul
No.2 R&B, Funk, Hip-Hop
No.3 Rock, Pop

sorry ,,, but I thought the categories were for MUSIC!

:)

471 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:12:06pm

re: #416 Killgore Trout

Those lists don’t like LGF anymore.

I’ve been a bad, bad conservative lately. I don’t jump on every bandwagon that passes by.

472 screaming_eagle  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:12:35pm

re: #465 enoughalready

Fine. Let’s arm the women.

473 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:12:48pm

re: #471 Charles

I’ve been a bad, bad conservative lately. I don’t jump on every bandwagon that passes by.

It’s bad for the knees!

474 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:12:53pm

re: #451 Charles

He didn’t say “if you took the percentage of Muslims,” he said “if you took the number of Muslims.”

It’s all the fault of our upbringing, Charles. When I went to the grocery store with Mom, this table was not clearly labeled “apples”, and that table wasn’t clearly labeled “oranges”.

/

475 jcm  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:12:57pm

re: #464 Naso Tang

Not really, we all laugh together, at the creationists.

True, we’re certainly not laughing with them……

476 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:12:58pm

re: #469 Killgore Trout

Thunderstorm blowing in now. No rain yet but lots of wind.

My kids are preparing for a power outage. I think they just want to use flashlights. Plenty of wind, a smattering of rain.

477 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:13:18pm

re: #471 Charles

I

don’t jump on every bandwagon that passes by.


Traitor!
/

478 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:13:32pm

Seems there is a new book out on honor killings in Jordan:

Murder in the Name of Honor

479 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:14:18pm

re: #471 Charles

I’ve been a bad, bad conservative lately. I don’t jump on every bandwagon that passes by.

Some of those wagons are off the rails, to mix transportation metaphors.

480 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:14:30pm
482 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:15:13pm

re: #467 callahan23

What would the categories be? A suggestion:
No.1 Jazz, Blues, Soul
No.2 R&B, Funk, Hip-Hop
No.3 Rock, Pop

as a purist…

1 rock and roll…R/B and associated roots stuff
2 blues…early, modern and crossover tempo R/B
3 all the rest…show music, jazz, classical and the other stuff I don’t really care for

483 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:15:14pm

re: #451 Charles

He didn’t say “if you took the percentage of Muslims,” he said “if you took the number of Muslims.” And as I’ve pointed out twice now, this statement, while it may be a bit of a reach, is NOT false. By number of Muslims, the US is in the top third of the world’s countries.

Not OT at all …
[Link: www.nypost.com…]

484 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:15:19pm

re: #476 EmmmieG

check out the radar
I think it’s moving in from the southwest.

485 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:15:23pm

re: #443 enoughalready

So you are saying that honor killings are uniquely muslim thing? Ummm. No. Sorry. What we call crimes of passion are the exact equivalent of honor killings. There is no real difference. If you get killed by your brother for looking at the wrong boy or by your husband because you want to leave him is irrelevant. Both are examples of the same kind of control driven violence.

I don’t know why you got down dinged so hard on that. It is certainly prevalent in Muslim society, and religiously motivated, but it is far from unique. Hindus do it all the time, for example, and Latins were well known for their crimes of “honor” recognized by their courts as valid excuses long before any of us knew squat about Islam.

Macho Man wasn’t from a cartoon.

486 itellu3times  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:15:29pm

Has Orlando praised Obama’s speech about the Lakers?

487 pingjockey  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:15:59pm

Some asshat on O’Reilly talking about how the one didn’t go far enough in slamming Israel for ‘oppressing’ the Palosavages,

488 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:16:26pm

testing, wondering why part of my last comment didn’t appear

/

489 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:16:48pm

re: #484 Killgore Trout

check out the radar
I think it’s moving in from the southwest.

I’m just eyeing my blueberry bushes. This wind had better not damage them, or…or…I guess I’ll be unhappy.

490 pingjockey  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:17:03pm

re: #477 Killgore Trout
Ya mess around with the bandwagon, you’re liable to get hit with a horn!

491 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:17:08pm

re: #482 albusteve

as a purist…

1 rock and roll…R/B and associated roots stuff
2 blues…early, modern and crossover tempo R/B
3 all the rest…show music, jazz, classical and the other stuff I don’t really care for

albusteve … okay … what musicians would I take on a deserted island .. hummm … Stevie Winwood, Eric Clapton, George Harrison … let me think about the rest …

/um … when they were alive and young …

492 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:17:08pm

re: #488 pre-Boomer Marine brat

testing, wondering why part of my last comment didn’t appear

/

2nd test

/ < —

493 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:17:13pm

re: #488 pre-Boomer Marine brat

testing, wondering why part of my last comment didn’t appear

/


It was deemed unworthy by the gods of the internet.

494 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:17:25pm

re: #484 Killgore Trout

…and here it is. Luckily my bbq is in a covered are so dinner won’t be a problem.

495 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:17:51pm

re: #494 Killgore Trout

…and here it is. Luckily my bbq is in a covered are so dinner won’t be a problem.


Good luck!

496 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:18:38pm

re: #495 EmmmieG

I’ll even put on my lucky tinfoil hat.

497 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:18:48pm

re: #491 JacksonTn

albusteve … okay … what musicians would I take on a deserted island .. hummm … Stevie Winwood, Eric Clapton, George Harrison … let me think about the rest …

/um … when they were alive and young …

I made the categories so my butt is covered…I got my 20+ records

498 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:18:50pm

re: #489 EmmmieG

I’m just eyeing my blueberry bushes. This wind had better not damage them, or…or…I guess I’ll be unhappy.

EmmmieG … how old are they? … how tall? … where do you live? …

499 screaming_eagle  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:18:53pm

re: #493 EmmmieG

It was deemed unworthy by the gods of the internet.

Blasphemy

500 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:19:31pm

re: #497 albusteve

I made the categories so my butt is covered…I got my 20+ records

albusteve … um … I wasn’t talking about bringing their records! … hey they could sing to me …

501 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:19:50pm

I also recommend this book:

Honor Lost: Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan

It will make you cry.

502 Hawaii69  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:19:51pm

re: #429 Fenway_Nation

Well…..if Indonesia was our 57th state, wouldn’t that make us one of the top 10 muslim countries?

Or even if India was. They’ve got a population of 155 Million Muslims…..about the same number as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Iran combined.

503 pingjockey  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:20:08pm

BBL!

504 enoughalready  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:20:16pm

re: #466 Charles

You’re correct that honor killings are not “uniquely” Muslim. However, in many Islamic countries — even supposedly moderate ones like Jordan — the laws against killing wives or daughters are appallingly slanted in favor of the killers. Islamist factions in Jordan have specifically voted down laws that would toughen penalties for honor killers, time and again. There have been several posts at LGF on the subject.

I know. What I am saying is that this (violence against women) is a problem that is not primarily a legal issue but a cultural one which seems to be (for lack of a better expression) everywhere. I agree that Jordan, Syria, Morocco and others should be smacked and told to fix their legal system and stop being assholes. But the problem is that this will not fix the problem (see Turkey). The problem is not the legal code per se but rather the mindset that lets this happens. And this is what pisses me off.

It’s a huge issue. But not a uniquely muslim issue.

505 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:20:29pm

re: #498 JacksonTn

EmmmieG … how old are they? … how tall? … where do you live? …

About three feet—very prolific, but I cheat with some of that non-organic acidic fertilizer that Zombie once mentioned. The berries are already on them, but I think green berries are tightly attached. They are at least 8 years old.

506 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:20:51pm

re: #467 callahan23

What would the categories be? A suggestion:
No.1 Jazz, Blues, Soul
No.2 R&B, Funk, Hip-Hop
No.3 Rock, Pop

Just Number 1 deserves a thousand CD’s
2. I’d send Hip-hop to #4
3. Rock only…a million songs on the Hard drive..
4. Pop.. Never take pop songs to a desert island with you..It invites late night dreams of jumping off the cliff.. Not good…If you wake up singing in your head..Her name was Lola.. You are in deep trouble.
5. Hip-Hop Combine this with Rap and you got a deal…Soundtracks to 50cent is welcome..And I love hiphop..let’s dance….
6. The most important thing..Country Music..Yes I hate it..But you never know who you are going to get stranded on a desert Island with.. Just in case she loves Keith Urban..Be prepared…
7. Children’s songs…That’s right..I get stranded on a desert Island with any women..We going to be needing Childrens songs!
/I’m teasing Lizards..I figure kids need to learn Led Zepplin by year 1.
//huh ho

507 albusteve  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:20:55pm

re: #500 JacksonTn

albusteve … um … I wasn’t talking about bringing their records! … hey they could sing to me …

I’ve done that since the sixties…it’s what I do for a big part of my free time

508 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:22:17pm

re: #498 JacksonTn

EmmmieG … how old are they? … how tall? … where do you live? …

Oh, I live in Oregon, which is why Killgore and I are discussing the storm.

509 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:22:41pm

HAH!

If you put a ” - ” immediately after a ” < “, then neither of them appears in the post.

If you separate them with a space, they both appear.

Seems like if you put ANYTHING except a space after a left-arrow, the arrow and everything following gets deleted.

Preview Is Our Friend
/heh … and software’s the Enemy

510 enoughalready  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:23:59pm

re: #485 Naso Tang

Yeah well. I really don’t know. Some people like to think that just because there is a law against something the problem immediately disappears. Only it doesn’t. But you can go to bed with a nice, warm fuzzy feel I guess.

511 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:24:55pm

re: #505 EmmmieG

About three feet—very prolific, but I cheat with some of that non-organic acidic fertilizer that Zombie once mentioned. The berries are already on them, but I think green berries are tightly attached. They are at least 8 years old.

EmmmieG … if you want to go non-organic .. use whatever you would feed an azalea … you can also put coffee grounds around them … it is best to plant them in a 75% peat moss 25% top soil mix (but yours are already established) … mulch with pine needles or pine bark … never fertilize near the trunk and only do it before bloom come and then again right before dormancy … Worm’s Way is a great organic site but I am not sure you have them in your area … or if they deliver to your area online …. blueberries require little fertilization and are the easiest of berries to grow …

The wind will not harm your bushes unless it is a freezing wind coming from the north … it is too late in the year to harm them if they are already putting on fruit … Good Luck with them! … blueberries are the best! …

512 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:25:22pm

re: #459 FurryOldGuyJeans

Are such things culturally accepted in the US as they are in Islamic societies? Nope, they are prosecuted as the crimes they are.

Furry “OGJ” -

No kidding, my sister and I Do Not Get Along Well, Theft is among the problems. Do I want to “WHACK” Her - NO! As to her sexuality, hers was hers as mine was mine, we BOTH probably made mistakes, I KNOW I did and suspect she did as well, i.e. wrong partners. On the theft issue, I am in a position far enough away from her that:

1. It Can NOT Happen Again.

2. What she took NOW has minimum value.

3. In my mind, because of behavior, she has lost - in the long run - more than she gained in the short - Her Problem - Not Mine.

4. For the record, the Theft Was a 35mm Film Camera System, camcorder and probably a bunch of 33rpm LP’s. Hope she has the Hardware/Software to turn all of it into CD’s/DVD’s - I DO - not so sure about her. Such is life.

5. In the “Ummah” - only Allah knows what HER punishment should have been.

-S-

513 jcm  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:25:55pm

re: #509 pre-Boomer Marine brat

HAH!

If you put a ” - ” immediately after a ” < “, then neither of them appears in the post.

If you separate them with a space, they both appear.

Seems like if you put ANYTHING except a space after a left-arrow, the arrow and everything following gets deleted.

Preview Is Our Friend
/heh … and software’s the Enemy

PIFW!

Beware…..

Liveleak Video
514 Sharmuta  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:26:41pm

re: #504 enoughalready

I know. What I am saying is that this (violence against women) is a problem that is not primarily a legal issue but a cultural one which seems to be (for lack of a better expression) everywhere. I agree that Jordan, Syria, Morocco and others should be smacked and told to fix their legal system and stop being assholes. But the problem is that this will not fix the problem (see Turkey). The problem is not the legal code per se but rather the mindset that lets this happens. And this is what pisses me off.

It’s a huge issue. But not a uniquely muslim issue.

And no one is disagreeing with you. In the West, women have their own voices capable of speaking out on violence against women, and we do. But who speaks for these muslim women? Who will speak for them? Isn’t that what 0bama was doing today? Talking about subjects we need to confront? And all he says is women need education?!

He HAD the bully pulpit today and can’t speak up for these women more than to say they need education? I was pleased he said his daughters and all women can contribute to a society, but he’s the President of the United States. When he talks, people listen. There is more needed for women in the middle east than education.

515 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:28:20pm

(as an aside, allow me to make the following observation — if someone is doing a numeric comparison — if you’re making a comparison, and you state: “There are 20 million cases of venereal disease! Something needs to be done, and done now!” Well, that’s a number, yes. It’s called an absolute number. It’s really not helpful to simply state a number — even more “unhelpful” (if not misleading) to then draw up some stupid list with absolute numbers (in some sort of order — that is, say, take the absolute number of syphilis cases per state in the United States, then make a claim that the “State of California has X zillion cases - those profligates! — versus Rhode Island (that lovely puritanical state!)….” When you start trying to make comparisons, you need to know the relative number, not the absolute number. You can have radically different total numbers of observations, but until you get a handle on the relative number, any claims about “comparisons” of the groups (states, nations, etc.) are meaningless.

516 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:28:44pm

re: #511 JacksonTn

EmmmieG … if you want to go non-organic .. use whatever you would feed an azalea … you can also put coffee grounds around them … it is best to plant them in a 75% peat moss 25% top soil mix (but yours are already established) … mulch with pine needles or pine bark … never fertilize near the trunk and only do it before bloom come and then again right before dormancy … Worm’s Way is a great organic site but I am not sure you have them in your area … or if they deliver to your area online …. blueberries require little fertilization and are the easiest of berries to grow …

The wind will not harm your bushes unless it is a freezing wind coming from the north … it is too late in the year to harm them if they are already putting on fruit … Good Luck with them! … blueberries are the best! …

Thanks! My main concern was that the wind might break branches or strip the berries off. We sometimes have windstorms here bad enough to send trees onto houses.

517 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:30:18pm

re: #513 jcm

OUCH!

I had to watch that a few times to get the perspective.

518 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:31:29pm

re: #516 EmmmieG

Thanks! My main concern was that the wind might break branches or strip the berries off. We sometimes have windstorms here bad enough to send trees onto houses.

519 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:31:33pm

re: #516 EmmmieG

Thanks! My main concern was that the wind might break branches or strip the berries off. We sometimes have windstorms here bad enough to send trees onto houses.

EmmmieG … ha ha … lol … yeah … don’t get me started on berries … sorry … have you ever put like a sheet or something over them so the branches don’t get the wind going through them? .. at the least when the wind hit them it would go at a larger object and not right at the tender branches … but we don’t get real hard winds too often at our farms …

520 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:33:34pm

Netanyahu and Barak are wise to praise Obama’s speech. Nothing would be gained by raining on his parade. They can talk up the parts they like, and ignore the parts they don’t.

The best parts of Obama’s speech were the very clear paragraphs on the holocaust, 9-11 & Afghanistan, and the necessity for the Palestinian Arabs to stop the violence. The Muslim world needs to hear this from the US president.

I laugh at the unhistorical praise for alleged Muslim inventions, but that recitation was as rote as it was inconsequential. If that is the price for bending the Mulsim ear, so be it. I strongly disagree with the settlements sentence. But a speech is not a legal agreement. Israel should and must push back against that point.

All in all, not as good as I would have wished, but not as bad as it could have been.

521 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:35:55pm

Gremlins in my machine, I think.

The wind has died down, but I am not hopeful that it will continue this way. It’s supposed to be up to 60 mph.

522 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:38:35pm

re: #511 JacksonTn

Wild blueberries are the best. Several years ago I was canoeing and camping in Algonquin Park, Ontario. We camped on a small island and caught a few lake trout. They fried up in butter for dinner with a potato stuffed into the coals. Dessert was a bowl full of wild blueberries picked nearby. Food never tastes so good as when you are cold & hungry.

523 Colin Nelson  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:40:41pm

Given the huge advance publicity, the fevered anticipation, the high stakes, the gushing from Gergen on CNN, to say nothing of the minions in the WH who crafted and tested every word of BHO’s speech, how come at the moment critique, we have to fall all over ourselves doing the math and consulting charts to try and make the claim about Muslims in the USA stand up?

Just asking…

524 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:40:49pm

re: #465 enoughalready

Are killings of women culturally accepted here in the US or not?

Trot out all the bullshit statistics you want, it is still bullshit.

525 JacksonTn  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:41:04pm

re: #522 Kenneth

Wild blueberries are the best. Several years ago I was canoeing and camping in Algonquin Park, Ontario. We camped on a small island and caught a few lake trout. They fried up in butter for dinner with a potato stuffed into the coals. Dessert was a bowl full of wild blueberries picked nearby. Food never tastes so good as when you are cold & hungry.

Kenneth … I love them too … we cannot grow them in the quantities we do here … we grow mainly highbush and rabbiteye … but if you can believe it … I actually buy wild blueberries when I can … they are just different … and best picked by you ! …

526 onslow  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:43:22pm

re: #451 Charles

Charles,

Thank you for the favor of a reply.

527 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:43:51pm

re: #471 Charles

I’ve been a bad, bad conservative lately. I don’t jump on every bandwagon that passes by.

Charles -

Maintaining one’s Sanity/Integrity is a bit harder these days. Believe that you and I are on “the same page” on Sonia Sotomayor.
Would I PREFER someone else? YES - AND - Last I looked, the name of the President of the US is Barack Hussein Obama.
Presidents GET to pick “SCOTUS” nominees. Absent scandal OR incompetency, they get to be appointed Associate Justices of the “SCOTUS” - or so it WAS “BB” - (Before Bork). I would like to go back to that era.
Sonia Sotomayor is CERTAINLY NOT incompetent - AND - so far as I see has NO Scandals.
Do I object to her nomination - sorta/kinda YES - on Political Grounds. Would I wish to “Bork” her - NO! As a former “leftist” I believe that a wise jurist was unfairly treated on Political Grounds. I believe the same today. Let her be questioned on Her positions - then given an UP or DOWN vote, as Bork SHOULD have gotten. That is all.

-S-

528 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:51:29pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

You’re not wrong about violence against women, but in the West, when a man kills a woman, he faces justice.

In countries like Jordan- they never face justice. In Saudi Arabia, it is women who get punished with lashes for even being out in public with a man to whom they’re not related. There is no equal justice for women in the middle east.

And another difference - in the West, usually a crime of passion is a crime perpetrated by ONE person against another person, and the person who commits the crime tries to keep it hidden.

In Islamic “honor killings”, the crime is committed with the full knowledge and often the assistance of the family, and little attempt is made by the perpetrators to keep it quiet because the purpose of the crime is to publicly restore the family’s honor.

529 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 5:58:47pm
530 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 6:00:54pm

re: #520 Kenneth

I laugh at the unhistorical praise for alleged Muslim inventions, but that recitation was as rote as it was inconsequential. If that is the price for bending the Mulsim ear, so be it. I strongly disagree with the settlements sentence. But a speech is not a legal agreement. Israel should and must push back against that point.

The other “howler” was the rather disturbing juxtaposition of the paragraphs on Jewish and Palestinian suffering.

I did hear one excellent comment on TV, pointing out that it would have been an excellent opportunity for Obama to mention Sadat and his visit to Israel in 1977, perhaps suggesting that it was time for another Arab leader to follow suit.

531 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 6:07:36pm
532 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 6:11:29pm
533 J.S.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 6:39:16pm

re: #514 Sharmuta

Did you see the picture of Hillary Clinton in the hijab? CNN showed it — guess it must have been their gesture for “women’s lib”…(reminded me of Pelosi in Syria…) David Frum made an interesting comment about Obama’s put down of the French (since they require all students attending public school not to wear hijabs — that rule was put into place, in part, to protect Muslim girls who choose not to wear a hijab, yet faced taunts/violence, etc.), Frum wondered if Obama had any thoughts about those Muslim girls in France — were they somehow “outside” the so-called Muslim world?

534 jayzee  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 7:18:47pm

re: #425 Alouette

I don’t think moral equivalence was intended. It was just another stupid gaffe.

I disagree. Sorry, these things are thought out. Regardless, it is MUCH more than a stupid gaffe. Remember, these are the same people arguing over the word “the”.

Words, like votes have consequences.

535 ryannon  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 7:31:29pm

“Israel: We hope Obama speech heralds new era in Mideast.”

Ya mon

Image: obama_spliff.jpg

Me spliff mon, me spliff…

536 cybermonk  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 7:36:13pm

re: #112 Charles
Don’t forget Charles, that starting with Bill Clinton each year the POTUS would find some excuse for not moving the Embassy to Jerusalem, taking advantage of a loophole put in the Presidential Directive. Bush in his own hypocritical way continued this policy, I am sure the hypocrite Jew hater Abu Hussein Obama (as they are calling him in Egypt) will do the same.

537 cybermonk  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 7:37:14pm

re: #532 taxfreekiller

Amen

538 capitalist piglet  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 7:50:48pm

re: #367 enoughalready

Not to be annoying or anything but honor killings aren’t exactly specific to practitioners of Islam (neither is female genital mutilation, it is perhaps also important to remember that the custom is older than pretty much every religion currently practised. Still it is in practice in christian, jewish and muslim communities. Perhaps not really a subject for this particular speech since as far as I know it’s not only illegal in Egypt but there is also a fatwa against it. Double secret probation right there.). Honor related violence against women is endemic pretty much everywhere (yes that includes the western world as well). Perhaps we should make sure that a few fewer women were murdered back home because they wanted to leave their husbands/boyfriends etc.

/rant off - I am sorry but this honor killing trip that some people like really irks me since so many women each year get murdered, raped or just plain beaten beyond belief by the person they love and I refuse to let that become a uniquely muslim problem since it’s everywhere

Are you able to source that?

539 gtrs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 8:49:22pm

call me crazy; read the speech; listen to it; bibi netyanhu sez it is ok; for once(for the luv of GOD); DROP THE POLITICS; what are we missing by thinking that maybe peace is in the offing?

540 gtrs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 8:52:22pm

re: #536 cybermonk yea; he is a muslim elected by acorn………….YOU ARE AN IDIOT……stew on it; obama is YOUR PRESEDINT

541 gtrs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 8:55:06pm

re: #536 cybermonk
BY THE WAY MORON; rahm has more balls than you OR YOUR WIFE; are you stupid enough to think that the US will abandon israel? YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT

542 tobariv  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 9:11:23pm

Israel is dealing now with an elected Palestinian state in Gaza. That is the sad reality. The govt of Hamas destroyed the built up city of Gush Katif to wage war. The “two state solution” is a failure. Why repeat the same mistake and ask for more bloodshed. My friend is a Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation M.D. in Israel. The majority of his patients are Arabs. Who pays for their care ? The state of Israel. Could yousee an Israeli civilian getting help in an Arab country? In terms of female genital mutilation, as an M.D. I would like to tell those who say this exists all over to do some research. It’s actually highly prevalent in Cairo. The terrible side effects of what is done to women are too horrible to describe.Too bad this moral equivalence has become so prevalent. I’m just plain tired of it. Israel is now more isolated than ever. I am sorry President Obama does not understand that Israel is the land of the Jewish People from the beginning of time-not just because of Hitler .

543 Lynn B.  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 9:15:26pm

Ha’aretz sez the Israeli govt “praised” this speech. But Ha’aretz is a decidedly leftist rag and most other Israeli new outlets carried a far different story.

And when it comes to the status of Jerusalem, intelligent, educated people may very well understand the nuances of flowery political rhetoric but, unfortunately, most of the players in the Middle East do not and the results of employing such clever diplomatic tricks can be catastrophic.

I’m putting myself on a time out here, before I say something I’ll regret.

544 Mad Mullah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 9:31:45pm

I though that it was a terrible speech and little good will come from it.

Obama’s always making ridiculous comparisons and I don’t buy his absurd and offensive moral equivalencies. At the end of day, the people who hate us will continue to hate us and even though the USA may be temporarily toning down it’s war against Islamic terroristsman made disasters, the enemy is certainly not resting and Obama’s silly speech accomplished very little besides portraying the US as a weak and apologetic nation under his leadership.

545 gtrs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 9:41:11pm

re: #544 Mad Mullah ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

546 gtrs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 9:43:50pm

re: #543 Lynn B.
GOOD THAT YOU DECIDED TO JUST SHUT UP…………

547 gtrs  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 9:45:07pm

re: #542 tobariv
we all know that israel is ruled by virgins…………..you are an idiot.;

548 Mad Mullah  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 10:05:17pm

re: #545 gtrs

ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

Are you drunk or are you simply a naive, slobbering moron?

549 tatterdemalian  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 10:05:53pm

The Israelis have always had more compassion for the Palestinians than the Palestinians have ever had for themselves. The endless war the Palestinians wage against Israel is a testament to the rewards of being kind to the cruel.

550 Rich H  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 10:20:10pm

Maybe the Israeli government response was sincere. I don’t know.

But if they wanted to drive a wedge between the Muslim world and the Obama administration while flattering the latter I can see of no better way to do so than to praise the speech, knowing that some Muslims would suspect that anything Israel approves must be part of some secret anti-muslim agenda between Jerusalem and Washington.

… Or maybe they simply liked the speech.

551 hershel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 10:44:01pm

Charles, what is your reaction to Charles Krauthammer’s very negative view of the President’s speech?

552 hershel  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 10:51:57pm

“I don’t agree at all that Obama compared the Holocaust to the occupation. I think that’s an overheated distortion of what he said.”

He did not draw a direct comparison but his “on one hand and then the other” rhetoric certainly suggests some kind of moral equivalence.

Even if you think the speech was reasonable, the problem is we are not dealing with reasonable people, especially in Iran. As for Israel’s praise of the speech, ask yourself this: considering Krauthammer’s very perceptive observation that there was little policy substance in the speech, what did Israel have to gain by criticizing it?

553 Macker  Thu, Jun 4, 2009 11:21:32pm

I see that الرئيس أوباما is practicing Taqiyya….

554 pink freud  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 12:48:36am

re: #545 gtrs

ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

This is for you, gtrs.

Sweet talk not enough for Muslims: Iran

“TEHRAN: Iran’s supreme leader said yesterday the United States was deeply hated in the Middle East and told US President Barack Obama that “beautiful” speeches alone would not improve its image in the Muslim world.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said the hatred felt towards America could not be changed with “slogans” but that different US action was needed.

In a break from the policies of his predecessor George W Bush, Obama is offering improved ties with the Islamic Republic if it “unclenches its fist”. Iranian leaders say they want to see a real shift in the policies of their old foe.

“The nations of this part of the world … deeply hate America because during many years they have seen violence, military interference, rights violations, discrimination … from America,” Khamenei said in a televised speech.

“Even if they give sweet and beautiful talks to the Muslim nation … that will not create a change,” said Khamenei, Iran’s most powerful figure with the final say on all matters of state. “Nothing will change with speeches and slogans.”

He spoke at an event in Tehran to mark the 20th anniversary of the death of his predecessor, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Republic.

He also called Israel, which Iran does not recognise, a “cancerous tumour in the heart” of the Muslim world.”

555 jayzee  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 3:40:24am

re: #552 hershel

“I don’t agree at all that Obama compared the Holocaust to the occupation. I think that’s an overheated distortion of what he said.”

He did not draw a direct comparison but his “on one hand and then the other” rhetoric certainly suggests some kind of moral equivalence.

Even if you think the speech was reasonable, the problem is we are not dealing with reasonable people, especially in Iran. As for Israel’s praise of the speech, ask yourself this: considering Krauthammer’s very perceptive observation that there was little policy substance in the speech, what did Israel have to gain by criticizing it?

I am with you on this, but I think the comparison was more direct.

Try this:

The Jews lost six million during the holocaust, on the other hand, Joe had a flat tire the other day.

Stupid right? Why, because “on the other hand” works to compare the two.

Sorry, but I think Charles is wrong here. I heard it, a good number of Jews heard it and I am sure a lot of Arabs heard it. Maybe it is not what was meant, but, as I said before, the Arab side is still fighting over the word “the” in 242. This will be used to justify their genocide blood libels.

556 nomra  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 5:16:25am

re: #301 Sharmuta

But- he didn’t even mention them. Nor did he talk about homosexual persecution.

OK but in reality, he was never going to go there because he’d simply turn off the audience. Obama’s attempting to get more flies with honey so there’s a whole lot of diplomatic BS involved.
That being said, I think you’re underestimating the power that educating women really has. Things may not change quickly, but the primary educator in most traditional families is the mother. What many literacy programs have found is that if you teach the man, you teach the man, but if you teach the woman, you teach the whole family. I think history shows that when people learn to read, the next thing they’ll want are their rights because they’ll invariably learn what’s been stolen from them.
I think Juan Cole is a complete apologist prick but the one thing he’s done that I fully support is his translating classics of American thought and history into Arabic see: [Link: www.globam.org…]

557 nomra  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 5:22:39am

re: #307 Jimmah

Educated women are more likely to challenge that sort of bullshit. One effect of raising the standard of women’s education is that it brings birth rates down.

…and standards of living up.

558 nomra  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 5:48:12am

re: #393 Sharmuta

How many girls died in that islamic school fire because they weren’t wearing their abyahs? Education really helped those girls.

I take your point but I do think it’s a stretch to call religious indoctrination “education”.

559 nomra  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 5:57:16am

re: #436 FurryOldGuyJeans

Misandry is as disgusting as misogyny.

Sure, but in what society are men treated systematically, as badly as women in Saudi are? I don’t know what he was whinging about.

560 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 6:13:04am

re: #545 gtrs

ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

re: #547 gtrs

we all know that israel is ruled by virgins…………..you are an idiot.;

re: #547 gtrs

we all know that israel is ruled by virgins…………..you are an idiot.;

Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation, or are you here for the sole purpose of spewing insults?

561 Dave Brown  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 7:24:13am

When taken in its entirety, a very thoughtful and open speech. And his message about tolerance included a reminder to Moslems that they too must be tolerant and respectful of others (including Americans/Christians/Jews). His references to the persecution of Jews and Israel’s right to exist were also fairly strong.

The Obama presidency is certainly going to be interesting to watch; and hopefully, we will have an opportunity to see some of the promise realized. That will take more than one man, and more than a little hope and luck.

Well, lets be hopeful.

At the same time, there were obviously many disturbing elements to the speech, and not a little deceptive rhetoric (making the entire speech subject to suspicion). Here’s a good example:

Thursday, June 04, 2009
The Barbary Pirates
(The rest here is by JoeSettler)
[Link: muqata.blogspot.com…]

Unbelievable. I don’t even know where to begin in fisking Obama’s speech. But let’s start here:

“know, too, that Islam has always been a part of America’s story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. In signing the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796, our second President John Adams wrote: “The United States has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims.”
-Obama

What was the Treaty of Tripoli?

It was a treaty signed with the Arabs of Tripoli (and Algiers and Morocco) to get them to stop hijacking and attacking US ships - also known as piracy.

In 1801-1805 the US fought the Barbary Wars with these states who abrogated the treaty (except Morocco who did not break the treaty) and continued to attack and US ships .

In 1801, the Pasha of Tripoli tried to raise the price for not attacking US vessels (if I recall correctly, the US was paying 1 million dollars a year in extortion bills at that point).

President Jefferson, instead of giving in to the extortion (and continuing attacks) sent over a frigate and destroyed a Tripolitan ship. This was the first of many pirate ships the US destroyed.

This war ended in 1805, when for the first time in history the United States flag was raised in victory on foreign soil (Occupation). If you ever heard of the Marine Hymn then you would recognize the line — “to the shores of Tripoli”.

Of course this only lasted for a little while when Algiers decided to start again, resulting in the Second Barbary War.

So when Obama says that the Muslims have a long history with the US, I was wondering if he meant piracy, ransoms, hostage taking, treaty abrogation, and terrorism (then known as piracy).

562 Land Shark  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 8:40:06am

While Obama’s speech was not as bad as I feared, let’s not get too carried away. Obama already has a well earned reputation for saying one thing and doing another, we’ve all seen numerous of his statements “expire” when it gets down to brass tacks. And we have the MSM and a substantial part of the American public worshiping this guy wanting to believe everything says. Nothing facilitates a good liar like a ready and willing audience.

The background information on him suggests as strong sympathy for the Palestinians, and I still believe there’s a real chance he’s going to shaft Israel when push comes to shove. Lordy, I hope I’m wrong!

563 GenevaDan  Fri, Jun 5, 2009 10:04:25pm

new era indeed

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com…]


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