Shooting at Holocaust Museum in Washington DC

A white supremacist is the suspect in a shooting at the U.S. Holocaust Museum.

A gunman armed with a shotgun walked into the U.S. Holocaust Museum in downtown Washington today and opened fire on a security guard before being shot and seriously wounded himself by at least one other guard, authorities said.

The security guard and the gunman were both transported to George Washington University Hospital with serious injuries, police said.

Sgt. David Schlosser, a spokesman for the U.S. Park Police, said the security guard and the gunman were apparently the only two persons who were shot. Initial reports said at least one other person sustained gunshot wounds.

U.S. Park Police said a gunman armed with a shotgun opened fire on the security guard and that other security guards returned fire. The gunman was reported wounded.

Fox News is reporting the suspected shooter’s name: James W. von Brunn. If this is the guy, here’s his vile antisemitic website (it probably won’t be online much longer — this link is to the Google cache of the page): Holy Western Empire.

Holy Western Empire presents

A new, hard-hitting exposé of
the JEW CONSPIRACY to
destroy the White gene-pool

by

James W. von Brunn

Here are 350pp of FACTS condensing libraries of information about the Talmud, Democracy, Marx, Genetics, Money, Aryans, Negroes, Khazars, The Holy Bible, Treason, Mass-media, Mendelism, Race, the “Holocaust” and a host of suppressed “bigoted” subjects, all supported by quotations from many of history’s greatest personages. Learn who is responsible for the millions of Aryan crosses covering the world’s battlefields. Why our sons and daughters died bravely but in vain. Learn why the “browning of America will alter everything in society from politics and education to industry, values and culture.” (TIME 4-9-90).

Learn who has committed treason - and must be brought to justice!

This carefully documented treatise exposes the JEWS and explains what you must do to protect your White family. Kill the Best Gentiles! Is a must for every concerned parent and a manual for every student of World History.

UPDATE at 6/10/09 12:17:16 pm:

Von Brunn is a Nirther — here’s an article he wrote, posted at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

And he was a member of the “Ron Paul for President” group at Yahoo: HITLER’S WORST MISTAKE: HE DIDN’T GAS THE JEWS.

UPDATE at 6/10/09 12:19:22 pm:

Free Republic deleted their copy of Von Brunn’s Nirther article; here’s the Google cache. Update: the page is back at Free Republic, but I’ll leave the Google cache link here for now.

UPDATE at 6/10/09 12:36:47 pm:

With the Tiller shooting and now this — the DHS report that caused such an uproar has been vindicated.

The report was a heads-up to law enforcement, warning of a risk of increased attacks from right wing extremists, and with two attacks in two weeks (in addition to the cop killer in Pittsburgh, the white nationalist with components for a dirty bomb, the plot by skinheads to assassinate Obama, and more) it looks like the heads-up was well warranted.

Jump to bottom

802 comments

1 Mithrax  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:38:20am

The Kazars?

Wow, I could tell the guy was batshit insane but why not implicate the Loyal Order of Waterbuffalos too?

2 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:39:08am

Might as well repost his Wikipedia user page:


PLEASE DELETE MY ENTRY & LOCK THIS PAGE ASAP Billbrock (talk) 18:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


User: James W. von Brunn, b.1920, attempted to place the Federal Resrve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent citizens arrest, 12-7-81. Von Brunn charged the FED with treason and other high crimes. The FED, a private stock-company, owned by International bankers, financed the construction of manufacturing plants in the Soviet Union during the "Cold War." War materials, produced by FED financed plants, were used by the Enemy against American military forces in Viet Nam, and elsewhere.

Von Brunn was tried and convicted by a Washington, D.C. kangaroo court; then sentenced to eleven years in federal prison by Judge Harriet Rosen Taylor; the sentence was confirmed by a racially motivated Appeals Court. Von Brunn was imprisoned for 6.5-years.

Von Brunn champions Western Culture,and the practice of Eugenics. He states that Marxism-Multiculturalism-Judaism is the Enemy of Mankind.citing Talmudic quotes to "Kill the Best Gentiles !"

Von Brunn was president of his college fraternity, SAE. He served as PT-Boat captain, USNR, during WW2, earning 4-battle stars and a Commendation Ribbon. His early business career was in NYC as copywriter, art-director and film producer; later as a real-estate broker; and lastly as a writer-artist.

Pls see attchment: FED CAPER.

3 Shug  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:39:16am

Jews winning a nobel prize for science--too many to count

White Supremacists winning a nobel prize for science----0

So who is going to destroy the White gene pool James?

4 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:39:24am

Why does that "the lamps are going out..." quote keep running through my mind.

5 Perplexed  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:39:31am

No fool like an old fool. I hope the guard recovers without permanent disabilities.

6 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:39:38am

[Link: www.theneweditor.com...]

MSNBC's Pete Williams is reporting that the shooter (James Wittiker Von Brun (sp?), born in 1920) was arrested in the early 80s for carrying weapons into the Federal Reserve building complaining about interest rates, and has made many anti-Semetic remarks on his Web site since, blaming Jews for his imprisonment.


Turns out he's nearly 90 years old -- a notorious old anti-Semite!?!?!?!

Crazy.

WASHINGTON - A gunman exchanged fire with security guards inside the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum on Wednesday. One security guard and the gunman were taken to a hospital.
Law enforcement officials identified the suspect as James Wenneker von Brunn, born in 1920, from the Eastern Shore of Maryland, NBC News reported. NBC said he may have had connections to hate groups or anti-government groups.
D.C. police spokeswoman Traci Hughes said the suspect walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. ET with a rifle and shot a guard. U.S. Park Police Sgt. David Schlosser says one or more guards at the museum returned fire, hitting the suspect.

7 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:39:42am

From the alleged gunman's webpage. Here is the ad copy for his book:

Holy Western Empire presents TOB SHEBBE GOYIM HAROG!

A new, hard-hitting exposé of
the JEW CONSPIRACY to
destroy the White gene-pool

by

James W. von Brunn

Here are 350pp of FACTS condensing libraries of information about the Talmud, Democracy, Marx, Genetics, Money, Aryans, Negroes, Khazars, The Holy Bible, Treason, Mass-media, Mendelism, Race, the “Holocaust” and a host of suppressed “bigoted” subjects, all supported by quotations from many of history’s greatest personages. Learn who is responsible for the millions of Aryan crosses covering the world’s battlefields. Why our sons and daughters died bravely but in vain. Learn why the “browning of America will alter everything in society from politics and education to industry, values and culture.” (TIME 4-9-90).

Learn who has committed treason - and must be brought to justice!

This carefully documented treatise exposes the JEWS and explains what you must do to protect your White family. Kill the Best Gentiles! Is a must for every concerned parent and a manual for every student of World History.

Get your copy now. Download the first six chapters free, the balance of the manuscript is yours for $10.00 using a credit-card.

They don't want you to read this book!
Kill the Best Gentiles!
James von Brunn

If you agree that the information provided here is vital for the survival of the next generation, please consider donating to our efforts.

Donations will be used to develop the HWE web-site. Its purpose, to assist in forming the Holy Western Empire.

Lovely stuff.

8 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:40:38am

re: #1 Mithrax

The Kazars?

Wow, I could tell the guy was batshit insane but why not implicate the Loyal Order of Waterbuffalos too?

Not to mention the Visigoths.

9 MJ  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:01am

Anyone know if he's related to Pat Buchanan?

10 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:09am

Anyone still have hurt feelings over the DHS memo?

11 Tumulus11  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:12am

. Prayers for the injured security officer.

12 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:15am

I posted on the previous thread that we can expect aeroport searches to get even more dehumanising. Especially if we're a bit too blond and have too Germanic a last name. I could easily see TSA authorities getting their licks in.

13 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:39am

My first thought was a jihadi.

14 kobalt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:47am

looks like some delusional senior citizen forgots to take his medicines

15 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:47am

Was this a Hate Crime or a Middle East Political Crime Fox just asked? I'd like to remind people the 2 are NOT mutually exclusive.

16 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:54am

And some will probably STILL scream about that DHS report.

17 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:54am

This guy's deeply involved with the 1930s-era style of anti-Semitism. Very few people like that left any more! Absolutely wacko.

18 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:41:56am

re: #9 MJ

He was probably a fan of Buchanan. His stuff with the Federal Reserve means he's probably a fan of Ron Paul too.

19 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:11am

re: #9 MJ

Anyone know if he's related to Pat Buchanan?

That's good one.

20 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:18am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Anyone still have hurt feelings over the DHS memo?

Yeah, this guy fits to a tee that profile of a returning Afghanistan/Iraq veteran.

/

21 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:19am

Repost of a comment at the WaPo:


Quick googling reveals the guy has a website, dedicated mostly to promulgating his ridiculous (and hateful) ideas. (I'm not going to link.) But from his own website's bio:

James W. von Brunn holds a BachSci Journalism degree from a mid-Western university where he was president of SAE and played varsity football.

During WWII he served as PT-Boat captain, Lt. USNR, receiving a Commendation and four battle stars. For twenty years he was an advertising executive and film-producer in New York City. He is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ society.

In 1981 Von Brunn attempted to place the treasonous Federal Reserve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizens arrest. He was tried in a Washington, D.C. Superior Court; convicted by a Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge. A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals denied his appeal. He served 6.5 years in federal prison.

A real winner.

Hopefully, somewhat sensible right-wingers will stop getting all huffy about DHS being serious about radical right domestic terrorism. Two isn't an epidemic, but clearly it is something to start worrying about.

Posted by: dailykos2 %P% June 10, 2009 2:28 PM
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

22 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:19am

I hope this at least serves as a sanity check for our dear Ms Gellar. White supremacists aren't your friends, Pam.

23 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:20am

re: #13 MandyManners

My first thought was a jihadi.

Mine too. I'm not sure which is worse. Democratic Underground is already calling him a right-winger.

24 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:31am

"Jew conspiracy to destroy the White gene-pool" It souinds like a Doctor Strangelove parody.

25 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:35am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Anyone still have hurt feelings over the DHS memo?


Nobody denies the fact that there are right wing extremists.

IMO, the DHS "right wing extremist" memo in question is still speculative and unprofessional.

26 SteveC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:39am

As we say down here in the South, "That child ain't right."

27 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:42:39am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Anyone still have hurt feelings over the DHS memo?

That is in NO WAY associated with that!

28 avanti  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:16am

Lots of links by Stormfront praising the guy. He also got in a verbal fight with Tom Clancy after Von Brunn called Colin Powell, just another N#gger.

29 drcordell  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:16am

This is absolutely sickening. Thank God more people weren't injured. I remember visiting the museum a few years ago when I was in D.C. and noticing the extremely high level of security there. I work at the NYSE and it certainly rivaled the security we have there. Now we know why it's necessary unfortunately.

That being said, not holding my breath for Boehner, McConnell et al to retract their remarks about the warning DHS put out about precisely these kind of psychopaths.

30 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:24am

re: #9 MJ

Anyone know if he's related to Pat Buchanan?

Kindred spirits?

31 VioletTiger  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:29am

re: #23 doppelganglander

Mine too. I'm not sure which is worse. Democratic Underground is already calling him a right-winger.


Right or left it does not matter. Wingnut!

32 Golem Akbar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:35am

/There's no need to worry about terrorism in the United States. /It's time to dismantle DHS. /Bush lied...wah wah wah...

33 Shug  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:35am
Von Brunn was president of his college fraternity, SAE. He served as PT-Boat captain, USNR, during WW2, earning 4-battle stars and a Commendation Ribbon. His early business career was in NYC as copywriter, art-director and film producer; later as a real-estate broker; and lastly as a writer-artist.

Is this all true?
An impressive resume
and
Kind of scary to know that a person of his ilk can be your neighbor, coworker, American hero, teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc. etc and be a successful well respected person on one hand and a monster with a dark side on the other hand

34 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:36am

re: #13 MandyManners

My first thought was a jihadi.

He is -- merely not Salafist Qutbist Islamist.

35 flyovercountry  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:36am

As a person of the Jewish faith, I can only say that I wish we controlled everything we are credited for controlling. Somewhere I hear Tevia singing, "if I were a rich man." What in the world could possible be feeding these delusions? Where can I find that drug? In a way, I like reading their crap to see how great I am, if only it were true.

36 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:42am

re: #12 Zimriel

I posted on the previous thread that we can expect aeroport searches to get even more dehumanising. Especially if we're a bit too blond and have too Germanic a last name. I could easily see TSA authorities getting their licks in.

Huh?

I have heard of exactly zero instances of TSA people harassing passengers for being blond and/or Germanic.

37 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:43:44am

He hates democracy. That explains things.

/Drinks? Anyone?

38 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:44:03am

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

39 SteveC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:44:08am

re: #15 Nevergiveup

Was this a Hate Crime or a Middle East Political Crime Fox just asked? I'd like to remind people the 2 are NOT mutually exclusive.

Aren't all crimes a form of hate?

40 usa_usa  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:44:10am

A Birther ?

41 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:44:44am

re: #35 flyovercountry

What in the world could possible be feeding these delusions?


Hate.

42 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:44:48am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

Yeah, this guy fits to a tee that profile of a returning Afghanistan/Iraq veteran.

/

Even down to having served on a PT boat.

/

43 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:44:48am

re: #33 Shug

Is this all true?
An impressive resume

That's this maniac's self-description, I believe... so don't be too impressed just yet.

44 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:45:10am

re: #27 Nevergiveup

Heh. Ok, that answers my question.

45 brucee  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:45:17am

Probably a DHS plant to justify their oppressive measures! /S

But seriously, those guys saw this all coming.

46 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:45:18am

re: #17 zombie

This guy's deeply involved with the 1930s-era style of anti-Semitism. Very few people like that left any more! Absolutely wacko.

I wonder what we'd find if we started digging into his claims.

Though, frankly, it would make me laugh in a truly unfair way if it turns out to be true he's a Mensan.

47 SteveC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:45:22am

re: #28 avanti

Lots of links by Stormfront praising the guy. He also got in a verbal fight with Tom Clancy after Von Brunn called Colin Powell, just another N#gger.

He called him an attractive and successful African American?

48 JohnnyReb  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:45:29am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

He was probably a fan of Buchanan. His stuff with the Federal Reserve means he's probably a fan of Ron Paul too.

I am beginning to suspect that you are a sleeper fan of Ron Paul as much as you bring him up on this site.

49 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:45:32am

My daughter heard that von Brunn had served in World War II. Her immediate reaction: "For which side?"

50 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:45:54am

re: #21 Pvt Bin Jammin

Repost of a comment at the WaPo:

He is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ society.

That doesn't surprise me. Smart people like figuring things out, and they tend to be arrogant. If patterns seem to lead in one place, and they're not humble enough, they go mad.

Math people are the smartest in the sciences... and the craziest. The Unabomber comes to mind, as well as that Nash feller in "A Beautiful Mind".

51 DisturbedEma  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:46:04am

re: #32 Golem Akbar

/There's no need to worry about terrorism in the United States. /It's time to dismantle DHS. /Bush lied...wah wah wah...

I blame the Haters on the Left for this one. . .

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:46:08am

re: #17 zombie

This guy's deeply involved with the 1930s-era style of anti-Semitism. Very few people like that left any more! Absolutely wacko.

You know all this stuff about the new anti-Semitism? This is vintage anti-Semitism. So retro, it's coming back into style.

53 Baier  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:46:26am

re: #17 zombie

This guy's deeply involved with the 1930s-era style of anti-Semitism. Very few people like that left any more! Absolutely wacko.

Ahh, the Art-Deco period of antisemitism

54 yochanan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:46:30am

re: #17 zombie

now mostly they are connected to islamic and marxist anti semitic groups but fascist ones still exist zombie years ago a fellower of matt hale shot at my son and other jews in west rodgers park in chicago wounding 6 jews and killing one asian and one black man.

55 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:46:42am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

He was probably a fan of Buchanan. His stuff with the Federal Reserve means he's probably a fan of Ron Paul too.

It's older than those yahoos, you know. And LaRouche doesn't approve of the Fed, either.

56 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:46:43am

re: #46 Dianna

... Though, frankly, it would make me laugh in a truly unfair way if it turns out to be true he's a Mensan.

When someone tells me they're a member of Mensa, I generally tune out everything they say after that.

57 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:46:44am

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Heh. Ok, that answers my question.

The memo talked about present day Military Service members and those recently discharged. Get your facts straight.

58 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:10am

re: #50 Zimriel

That doesn't surprise me. Smart people like figuring things out, and they tend to be arrogant. If patterns seem to lead in one place, and they're not humble enough, they go mad.

Math people are the smartest in the sciences... and the craziest. The Unabomber comes to mind, as well as that Nash feller in "A Beautiful Mind".

There is most definitely a fine line between genius and insanity.

59 JohnnyReb  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:13am

re: #33 Shug

Is this all true?
An impressive resume
and
Kind of scary to know that a person of his ilk can be your neighbor, coworker, American hero, teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc. etc and be a successful well respected person on one hand and a monster with a dark side on the other hand


Not buying the military end just yet. Individuals do not earn battle stars, only ships do. 24 hour rule for me on the military part.

60 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:15am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

You know all this stuff about the new anti-Semitism? This is vintage anti-Semitism. So retro, it's coming back into style.

There is nothing new under the sun.



I read that somewhere, once.

61 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:33am

re: #53 Baier

Ahh, the Art-Deco period of antisemitism

Or is it Bauhaus Judenhass?

62 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:43am
Mendelism

So, this guy is not merely against "Darwinism' --he's against "Mendelism" -- he opposes the very laws of genetics!

Repeal the laws of genetics A bad law is a bad law, no matter who passed it!

63 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:46am

re: #38 Dianna

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

The author claims its a Talmudic passage meaning "Kill the best Gentiles". I have no idea if it does or doesn't, if the quote is authentic, or what its context is.

This loon claims its his "life work" and that (shockingly) no publishing house would print it.

64 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:50am

re: #48 JohnnyReb

I checked. He doesn't appear to have much of a connection to Buchanan but he did post a few comments on Paulian message boards. It was an easy prediction to make.

65 DisturbedEma  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:47:58am

re: #54 yochanan

now mostly they are connected to islamic and marxist anti semitic groups but fascist ones still exist zombie years ago a fellower of matt hale shot at my son and other jews in west rodgers park in chicago wounding 6 jews and killing one asian and one black man.

I remember him and Hale- who used the Israeli flag for a doormat and insisted that people wipe their feet on it. . .

66 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:48:02am

re: #33 Shug

Is this all true?
An impressive resume
and
Kind of scary to know that a person of his ilk can be your neighbor, coworker, American hero, teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc. etc and be a successful well respected person on one hand and a monster with a dark side on the other hand

If we start digging, I suspect it will have about as much substance as did L. Ron Hubbard's.

67 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:48:05am

re: #50 Zimriel

Intelligence and mental illness are not in anyway correlated. The rate of mental illness is the same for all intelligence levels.

68 Golem Akbar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:48:09am

re: #38 Dianna

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

Read this. It means that the Jews intend to kill gentiles. It's bs and misquoting the Talmud. But the David Dukes of the world believe it.

69 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:48:34am

If it wasn't for this site and two others I read ...I would feel all safe and warm in my little Central Utah cacoon....
Sadly ,this isn't the case...........

70 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:48:44am

re: #55 Dianna

It's older than those yahoos, you know. And LaRouche doesn't approve of the Fed, either.

I wouldn't be surprised ir he was a fan of Larouche either.

71 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:49:07am

re: #28 avanti

Lots of links by Stormfront praising the guy. He also got in a verbal fight with Tom Clancy after Von Brunn called Colin Powell, just another N#gger.

It's not like this guy was some stealth hater. He was very upfront about it all.

72 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:49:16am

Whois Holywesternempire:

Domain ID: D38004534-LROR
Domain Name: HOLYWESTERNEMPIRE [dot] ORG
Created On: 18-Oct-2000 15: 47: 10 UTC
Last Updated On: 03-Apr-2009 19: 05: 16 UTC
Expiration Date: 18-Oct-2009 15: 47: 10 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar: DirectNIC LTD (R48-LROR)
Status: CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status: CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status: CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID: IMG-868380
Registrant Name: Steve Reimink
Registrant Organization: HWE
Registrant Street1: 15584 Lake Michigan Drive
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City: West Olive
Registrant State/Province: MI
Registrant Postal Code: 49460
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: 1.6168422155
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email: steveo1488@hotmail.com

Goto:

[Link: vids.myspace.com...]

Click on pics. He has swastikas there...

73 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:49:20am

Another 'non existent right wing extremist' that poses a threat to public safety in America. Been a lot of them in the news lately.

Remember - this DHS report stuff about right wing extremists is just politically motivated paranoia designed to make ordinary conservatives feel uncomfortable/

74 yochanan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:49:28am

may we all pray for the security guard as he is in grave condition my G-D protect his soul.

75 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:49:36am

This is long, but also from his website. Same old Jew-hating @#$:


Preface

Let me issue and control a Nation's money and I care not who makes its laws.
-- Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Over the years Revisionists have asked me to write about my effort in 1981 to place the Board of Governors, Federal Reserve System (FED), under legal, non-violent citizens-arrest. The subject resides in my memory like old road-kill. What could have been a slam-bang victory turned into ignoble failure. Recalling all of this presents an onerous task. I am getting near the end of the diving board.

( I've already covered the FED in my Ms. "Kill the Best Gentiles !" which no one would publish. ) However, because there may be lessons in my story for young Americans, I have decided to give it a whirl.

The Constitution states that Congress alone shall issue and control America's currency; Congress may not delegate those functions. Nevertheless a corrupt and ignorant U.S. Congress enacted the unconstitutional Federal Reserve Act (1913). Few Congressmen since have dared suggest it is unconstitutional -- fearing for their livelihood and their lives. The word "Federal" is a sham. It has no more relevance than "Federal" Tire Co. The FED is a private corporation whose stock is owned by International Bankers. It is not an agency of the United States Government. It is one of many parasitical Rothschild Central Banks infesting the world stage. Its power ascends over every U.S. citizen from cradle to grave. Every dollar in your wallet is a note issued by the FED. The U.S. Government redeems that note (principal and interest) with your taxes. Through its enormous resources and power the FED controls the machinery of the U.S. Government.

The Rothschild empire was created by infiltrating every level of ALL Western governments. Through manipulation, bribery, slander, assassination, and control of the mass media, JEWS contrived to pit nation against nation, race against race, financing all sides in the resultant wars; then at exorbitant interest rates financing reconstruction of the devastated countries. Rothschild's modus operandi has kept Western Civilization in a continuous state of war and eternally in debt.

"Wars are Jews' harvests." (J.G. Simpson).

76 NY Nana  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:50:05am

Any hate site like that would not be allowed in Germany, or a number of other countries.

Freedom of Hate speech here has gotten out of hand. There should be some sort of law passed that would make sites like his a Federal crime, damn it.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:50:25am

re: #38 Dianna

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?


Context? Tob is probably tov, 'good', and goyim is 'nations', or by extension, 'Gentiles'.

78 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:50:37am

His site links to an online gambling site (Casino Tropez).

79 Golem Akbar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:50:39am

re: #74 yochanan

may we all pray for the security guard as he is in grave condition my G-D protect his soul.


Omayn!

80 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:50:54am

And more BAD news for Jews:

Former Liberian president Charles Taylor, who is on trial in The Hague for alleged crimes against humanity, has reportedly decided to convert to Judaism.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!

81 SteveC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:51:07am

re: #62 zombie

So, this guy is not merely against "Darwinism' --he's against "Mendelism" -- he opposes the very laws of genetics!

Repeal the laws of genetics A bad law is a bad law, no matter who passed it!

You are an anti-geneticist and when you come up before the Judiciary Committee to be appoved to the United States Supreme Court, I WILL oppose you with every fiber of my being!

/please

82 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:51:25am

re: #76 NY Nana

Any hate site like that would not be allowed in Germany, or a number of other countries.

Freedom of Hate speech here has gotten out of hand. There should be some sort of law passed that would make sites like his a Federal crime, damn it.

Unfortunately, that goes against the basic tenets of Freedom of Speech.*

*just as a side note, I abhor any site condoning stuff like that.

83 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:51:27am

re: #76 NY Nana

Any hate site like that would not be allowed in Germany, or a number of other countries.

Freedom of Hate speech here has gotten out of hand. There should be some sort of law passed that would make sites like his a Federal crime, damn it.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I want my nuts right out front where I can keep an eye on them.

84 avanti  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:51:36am

re: #64 Killgore Trout

I checked. He doesn't appear to have much of a connection to Buchanan but he did post a few comments on Paulian message boards. It was an easy prediction to make.

The only connections I found were pretty weak. i.e., racist web sites that endorsed both Pat for President and linked to Van Brunn.

85 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:51:58am

re: #54 yochanan

now mostly they are connected to islamic and marxist anti semitic groups but fascist ones still exist zombie years ago a fellower of matt hale shot at my son and other jews in west rodgers park in chicago wounding 6 jews and killing one asian and one black man.

Didn't he shoot the Northwestern basketball coach?

86 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:13am

re: #76 NY Nana

Any hate site like that would not be allowed in Germany, or a number of other countries.

Freedom of Hate speech here has gotten out of hand. There should be some sort of law passed that would make sites like his a Federal crime, damn it.

Yes, but who gets to decide what qualifies as hate speech?
Perhaps "they" will decide that support of Israel constitutes hate speech.

87 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:14am

While I respect the service of those in the armed forces as much as anyone, I also understand that past glories can be overshadowed by subsequent actions.

I understand that Mr. Murtha was once a Marine.

That John Kerry may have once served in some foreign war or another.

We tend to forget that not everyone who fought against the Axis powers was a friend to the Jews.

88 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:28am

re: #56 Son of the Black Dog

When someone tells me they're a member of Mensa, I generally tune out everything they say after that.

I remember attending a Christmas party mostly attended by Mensans. I later expressed the opinion that they were a group of unpleasant and unattractive personalities; certainly, they were more enamoured of themselves than the rest of us could ever be.

89 Syrah  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:34am

re: #72 Gus 802

I see the 88 in the Email address. Is the 14 significant?

90 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:35am

Just found this tidbit, which may be a posting by Brunn on Arabnews.com, thinking there was a 9/11 conspiracy (with Jews/government involved):

Not suddenly

Evidence of CIA and FBI negligence in the 9-11 attacks demands immediate investigation of John Deutch, former head of the CIA, and Louis Freeh, former head of the FBI. Connecting the dots will reveal probably that vital US secrets and resources were purloined under Deutch’s watch; and that Freeh allowed Israeli spies to operate unmolested within the USA .

It is imperative to explain why the FBI released 126 Israeli spies and "art students" apprehended following Sept. 11. This may reveal why only one (1) Jew died at the WTC disaster — the heart of Jewish trade located in the world’s largest Jewish city.

James von Brunn, USA, published 7 June 2002

91 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:53am

re: #80 Nevergiveup

And more BAD news for Jews:

Former Liberian president Charles Taylor, who is on trial in The Hague for alleged crimes against humanity, has reportedly decided to convert to Judaism.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!

Are we sure he's not just doing it for the jokes, like that guy on Seinfeld?

/

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:54am

re: #57 Nevergiveup

The memo talked about present day Military Service members and those recently discharged. Get your facts straight.

It didn't only talk about them, IIRC.

93 SteveC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:55am

re: #83 doppelganglander

Sorry, I have to disagree. I want my nuts right out front where I can keep an eye on them.

*slaps forehead*

94 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:56am

How can someone be 89 years old and still boiling over with such hate that after waiting for perhaps seven long decades he finally can't suppress the urge to go shoot some Jews?

How long has he been fantasizing about this? Probably at least 50 years.

95 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:52:56am

And you can't really be a true whack-job unless you beleive in the Illuminatus conspiracy:

In 1981 America's future seemed dismal indeed. It seemed to me that IF the FED could be brought to center stage and exposed, the entire Illuminati structure would collapse. Enraged citizens would hang the International Bankers. America would resume its role as a bastion of Western Culture.

96 bkgodfrey  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:14am

re: #4 Occasional Reader

It's hard to stop it with this and the BNP's winning of seats in the EU parliament.

97 neocon hippie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:17am

re: #76 NY Nana

That would simply drive it underground. Better to have it out in the open where everyone can see the madness. Exception, of course, if there is actual incitement to violence.

98 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:21am
99 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:23am

re: #89 Syrah

I see the 88 in the Email address. Is the 14 significant?

Don't know. I noticed the 88 as well.

100 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:24am

re: #73 Jimmah

Another 'non existent right wing extremist' that poses a threat to public safety in America. Been a lot of them in the news lately.

Remember - this DHS report stuff about right wing extremists is just politically motivated paranoia designed to make ordinary conservatives feel uncomfortable/

Yeah, cause Lord knows every single one of us who ever served in the military, currently owns firearms and votes conservative could suddenly snap and turn into a foaming at the mouth believer in the "Great Jewish Conspiracy".

//

101 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:27am

re: #80 Nevergiveup

And more BAD news for Jews:

Former Liberian president Charles Taylor, who is on trial in The Hague for alleged crimes against humanity, has reportedly decided to convert to Judaism.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!

Well, I guess it is weird news day today.

102 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:28am

re: #89 Syrah

I see the 88 in the Email address. Is the 14 significant?

"The 14 words". Charles can explain it.

/i forget

103 amir  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:41am

Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog = Kill the best Gentiles

104 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:53:59am

re: #80 Nevergiveup

And more BAD news for Jews:

Former Liberian president Charles Taylor, who is on trial in The Hague for alleged crimes against humanity, has reportedly decided to convert to Judaism.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming!


That will make a new edition of Adam Sandler's "O.J. Simpson... not Jewish!" song all the more difficult.

105 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:02am

re: #73 Jimmah

Another 'non existent right wing extremist' that poses a threat to public safety in America. Been a lot of them in the news lately.

Remember - this DHS report stuff about right wing extremists is just politically motivated paranoia designed to make ordinary conservatives feel uncomfortable/

We still have people here in denial about that too. Amazing.

106 gander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:13am

This guy lives in a very small world. Sad and pitiful.

107 Golem Akbar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:15am

re: #83 doppelganglander

Sorry, I have to disagree. I want my nuts right out front where I can keep an eye on them.


Keeping them out and open is the only way to defeat them.

108 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:17am

re: #99 Gus 802

Don't know. I noticed the 88 as well.

The "88" is "HH", as in "Heil Hitler".

109 S'latch  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:19am

Nah. It was probably some other guy named James W. von Brunn.

110 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:26am

re: #94 zombie

How can someone be 89 years old and still boiling over with such hate that after waiting for perhaps seven long decades he finally can't suppress the urge to go shoot some Jews?

How long has he been fantasizing about this? Probably at least 50 years.


Old people often become despondent.

He well may have been suicidal, and decided to end things with a (literal) "bang".

111 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:27am

re: #88 Dianna

I remember attending a Christmas party mostly attended by Mensans. I later expressed the opinion that they were a group of unpleasant and unattractive personalities; certainly, they were more enamoured of themselves than the rest of us could ever be.

I was invited to a Mensa meeting once but declined. I'm fairly sure I would have qualified for membership, but I had the same general impression of the membership as you did.

112 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:33am

re: #88 Dianna

I remember attending a Christmas party mostly attended by Mensans. I later expressed the opinion that they were a group of unpleasant and unattractive personalities; certainly, they were more enamoured of themselves than the rest of us could ever be.

Regret I can only up-ding once on that.

113 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:34am

re: #68 Golem Akbar

Read this. It means that the Jews intend to kill gentiles. It's bs and misquoting the Talmud. But the David Dukes of the world believe it.

Thank you.

114 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:46am

re: #76 NY Nana

Any hate site like that would not be allowed in Germany, or a number of other countries.

Freedom of Hate speech here has gotten out of hand. There should be some sort of law passed that would make sites like his a Federal crime, damn it.

Keep them out in the open so we know who they are.

115 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:48am

re: #108 Ward Cleaver

The "88" is "HH", as in "Heil Hitler".

Yep.

This is the Wiki for 14 words:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

116 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:50am

re: #94 zombie

How can someone be 89 years old and still boiling over with such hate that after waiting for perhaps seven long decades he finally can't suppress the urge to go shoot some Jews?

How long has he been fantasizing about this? Probably at least 50 years.

Fine whine takes a long time to ferment.

117 Flyovercountry  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:52am

RE: #63 Looking Closely

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

The author claims its a Talmudic passage meaning "Kill the best Gentiles". I have no idea if it does or doesn't, if the quote is authentic, or what its context is.

I can tell you for sure, no where in the Talmud is anyone directed to kill any living creature. The world is full of people willing to lie about what is written in the Talmud as a means to secure converts to their anti-semetic way of thinking. Just so you know, our entire legal system is actually based on the Talmud. I am fairly certain that killing Gentiles, Babies, or even anti-semites is not legal here.

118 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:54:55am

re: #90 lawhawk

Just found this tidbit, which may be a posting by Brunn on Arabnews.com, thinking there was a 9/11 conspiracy (with Jews/government involved):

Ah, so he's Truther too.

Further confirming my opinion that the 9/11 Truth movement is a thinly-veiled form of anti-Semitism.

119 DisturbedEma  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:02am

Today is the anniversary of the Israeli victory in the 6 day war- on the Christian luach. . .

120 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:12am
121 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:29am

re: #100 Wendya

Can you quote the part of the DHS report that states that?

122 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:30am

re: #76 NY Nana

Any hate site like that would not be allowed in Germany, or a number of other countries.

Freedom of Hate speech here has gotten out of hand. There should be some sort of law passed that would make sites like his a Federal crime, damn it.

His site didn't do any harm; all it did was alert the world that its webmaster was a fruitcake. If anything, we should be encouraging the loons to expose themselves, so that they can be monitored.

123 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:42am

re: #111 doppelganglander

I was invited to a Mensa meeting once but declined. I'm fairly sure I would have qualified for membership, but I had the same general impression of the membership as you did.

I was invited to a Mensa meeting once, but I declined to go because their intellect was beneath me.

/yeah, right.

124 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:50am

re: #98 Iron Fist

You know, I was subject to some of that extra scruitney at the airport when I flew to California. It was a small hassle, but really not that big of a deal. Once was because I had somewhat unusual ticketing (I flew to Reno, then on to the coast, then back in two hops), once was (and they told me this) because of my name. They were taking extra precautions with people with extremely common names.

Like having to show my driver's license when I voted, it was really not any big imposition. It isn't the "creeping fascism" that we've been lectured about. There are a lot of threats to liberty out there that take a higher priority for me.

I'm sure that you're a fine person and all, but I wouldn't cash your check without seeing some ID.

125 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:55am

re: #70 Killgore Trout

I wouldn't be surprised ir he was a fan of Larouche either.

Still digging through.

He's nuts. Big surprise that he's a fan of a bunch of other conspiracy-addled nuts.

126 Syrah  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:55:57am

re: #102 Ward Cleaver

"The 14 words". Charles can explain it.

/i forget

I looked that up. Wiki has a page on it.

This guy was telegraphing his insanity.

127 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:01am

re: #115 Gus 802

Yep.

This is the Wiki for 14 words:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yeah, that's it. I just remembered "14 words".

128 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:03am

re: #98 Iron Fist

You know, I was subject to some of that extra scruitney at the airport when I flew to California.

That's because you... um... look scary.

129 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:05am

Just in case. My #72 is information on the person running the web site for the suspect.

130 2senseplain  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:10am

re: #38 Dianna

Non-grammatical illiterate attempt at Hebrew. I think he intended to say something along the lines that its good to murder gentiles, intended as another of his bogus quotes of Jewish sources.

131 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:11am

re: #111 doppelganglander

I was invited to a Mensa meeting once but declined. I'm fairly sure I would have qualified for membership, but I had the same general impression of the membership as you did.

I see Mensa as the intellectual equivalent of a "big dick" club.

I may or may not qualify to join, but if I just want to masturbate, I can do that at home.

132 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:11am

re: #105 Killgore Trout

We still have people here in denial about that too. Amazing.

Well gee... when you make sweeping generalizations that potentially classify half of America as potential terrorists, you're going to be treated like an idiot.

133 Abu Lahab  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:20am

Charles, will you be surprised that this scum is called "White Racialist Treasure" at the swamp called Stormfront
(I liked through tiny URL)
And they seemed freaked out about this, I wonder how long that page will last.

I hope it's Ok that I linked to them through tiny URl, if not, I'm sorry, please remove the links.

134 SteveC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:36am

re: #110 looking closely

Old people often become despondent.

He well may have been suicidal, and decided to end things with a (literal) "bang".

Jeebus, couldn't he have just turned on the propane and then lit a match?

135 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:41am
136 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:44am

re: #94 zombie

How can someone be 89 years old and still boiling over with such hate that after waiting for perhaps seven long decades he finally can't suppress the urge to go shoot some Jews?

How long has he been fantasizing about this? Probably at least 50 years.

My best guess, given his career, is that he intended to die doing this so he could be a martyr for the cause. Wonder if he got something back from his doctor that triggered this?

137 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:50am

re: #118 zombie


Further confirming my opinion that the 9/11 Truth movement is a thinly-veiled form of anti-Semitism.


Good point.

138 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:51am

Personally, I always felt that if you were really smart, it would be self-evident (see: Franklin, Benjamin), and that you didn't need numbers to prove it.

This man sounds like a grade A jerk.

139 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:56:55am

re: #94 zombie

How can someone be 89 years old and still boiling over with such hate that after waiting for perhaps seven long decades he finally can't suppress the urge to go shoot some Jews?

How long has he been fantasizing about this? Probably at least 50 years.

Age is no impediment to hatred.

140 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:57:02am
141 Solomon2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:57:49am

Even if he was stopped at security inside the building, the question is why he wasn't stopped outside. The area is heavily patrolled and there is very little parking, so either he took a cab, or walked a considerable distance with his shotgun, or parked illegally - or had help.

142 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:57:50am

re: #123 MrSilverDragon

I was invited to a Mensa meeting once, but I declined to go because their intellect was beneath me.

/yeah, right.

I remember the Bob Newhart Show episode where Bob was invited to join Mensa. He went to a party held by some members, and they were all idiot savants. Too funny.

143 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:57:56am

re: #108 Ward Cleaver

The "88" is "HH", as in "Heil Hitler".

Odd coinicidence that it was also the name/nickname of one of the Wehrmacht's most successful weapons.

144 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:58:13am

Al Qaeda Playbook In Action

Three years ago, the trial, and conviction, of Islamic terrorists in New York City, brought out the extent to which police had infiltrated Moslem communities in order to uncover terrorist plots. While most of this counter-terrorist activity within Moslem communities is kept secret, enough information has leaked out to make it clear that it's no accident that the United States has not suffered another terrorist attack since September 11, 2001.

This soon led to growing calls from Moslem groups to halt the practice of using such informants within their community. This opposition to intelligence collection is right out of the al Qaeda playbook. Al Qaeda websites contain advice, and discussion, of how to use indignation and protests against "invasion of privacy" and "disrespect for Islam" to get Western counter-terror organizations to stop using such informants.

145 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:58:15am

re: #134 SteveC

Jeebus, couldn't he have just turned on the propane and then lit a match?

Or simply pointed the gun at himself instead.

At 89 years old, you know he probably didn't think he had a lot of time left anyway.

146 NY Nana  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:58:24am

re: #83 doppelganglander

/Had you ever seen this 'nut' out and about?

Live press conference....

147 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:58:34am

re: #133 Abu Lahab

Yes, I was watching that thread earlier before the learned the killer's identity.

148 yochanan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:58:34am

re: #85 opnion

yes

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:58:37am

re: #89 Syrah

I see the 88 in the Email address. Is the 14 significant?

Yes. There's a fourteen word statement used by white supremacist, and the number itself is code for 'white supremacist thought'.

150 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:58:46am

re: #138 EmmmieG


This man sounds like a grade A jerk.

Er... yeah, I'd say that's putting it rather mildly.

151 avanti  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:59:03am

In 1981 he was arrested for carrying a gun into the fed reserve building protesting interest rates.

152 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:59:28am

re: #145 looking closely

Or simply pointed the gun at himself instead.

At 89 years old, you know he probably didn't think he had a lot of time left anyway.

He wanted to go out in a blaze of glory (to impress the Stormfronters), and take some peeps with him.

153 Russkilitlover  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:59:58am

re: #88 Dianna

I remember attending a Christmas party mostly attended by Mensans. I later expressed the opinion that they were a group of unpleasant and unattractive personalities; certainly, they were more enamoured of themselves than the rest of us could ever be.

I think I had dinner with three of those folks of yours Santa Fe. I knew they were mensans because they wouldn't stop mentioning it! They drank expensive mixed drinks all night (I drank iced tea) and then insisted on "fairly" splitting the bill evenly among us. Even then, they came up a bit short and I had to add to cover the tip.

Mensans......meh!

154 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:00:02pm

re: #63 looking closely

The author claims its a Talmudic passage meaning "Kill the best Gentiles". I have no idea if it does or doesn't, if the quote is authentic, or what its context is.

This loon claims its his "life work" and that (shockingly) no publishing house would print it.

It sounds like an attempt to string together some Hebrew or Aramaic to sound like what he wants. "Tob" is like "Tov" which means good. "Shebbe" is not a word I recognize, although it sounds a bit like "sheva" or seven. "Goyim" means nations or gentiles and "Harog" would be "kill" in the imperative mood. So, it sounds like a dumb-ass attempt to say, "Good. Kill seven gentiles." I did not find this in the two pages of Talmud that I examined, needless to say.

155 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:00:05pm

re: #151 avanti

In 1981 he was arrested for carrying a gun into the fed reserve building protesting interest rates.

That explains the Fed-related links on his site.

156 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:00:37pm

Dinner time....later.

157 Golem Akbar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:00:39pm

re: #117 Flyovercountry

I am fairly certain that killing Gentiles, Babies, or even anti-semites is not legal here.

The Talmud never ever advocated killing anyone. It's beyond the pale.

158 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:00:48pm

re: #143 Occasional Reader

Odd coinicidence that it was also the name/nickname of one of the Wehrmacht's most successful weapons.

I should give you flak for that!

159 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:00:54pm

I just watched the various DC honchos talking to the press. The race and sex of the honchos is all over the map, and the reporters are a rainbow also. That speaks to me of the way America works. Any American who doesn't like that - too bad.

I just heard that the injured guard is in grave condition - my prayers go out to him.

160 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:01:07pm

re: #100 Wendya

Yeah, cause Lord knows every single one of us who ever served in the military, currently owns firearms and votes conservative could suddenly snap and turn into a foaming at the mouth believer in the "Great Jewish Conspiracy".

//

How true, the first thing that you do when discharged from the military is look for an extermist group to join.
You don't get liquored up & chase women. sarc.

161 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:01:10pm

re: #117 Flyovercountry

RE: #63 Looking Closely

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

The author claims its a Talmudic passage meaning "Kill the best Gentiles". I have no idea if it does or doesn't, if the quote is authentic, or what its context is.

I can tell you for sure, no where in the Talmud is anyone directed to kill any living creature. The world is full of people willing to lie about what is written in the Talmud as a means to secure converts to their anti-semetic way of thinking. Just so you know, our entire legal system is actually based on the Talmud. I am fairly certain that killing Gentiles, Babies, or even anti-semites is not legal here.


Hence my skepticism.

I would be curious to know if the quote actually *IS* authentic, and what its context is.

But even stipulating for the sake of argument that the quote says everything this lunatic claims, that doesn't justify his killing anyone, let alone a guard.

162 NY Nana  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:01:30pm

re: #110 looking closely

Old people often become despondent.

He well may have been suicidal, and decided to end things with a (literal) "bang".

Please do not make any excuses for him. There just are none, not a one.

163 amir  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:01:34pm

re: #151 avanti

In his own words:
"In 1981 Von Brunn attempted to place the treasonous Federal Reserve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizens arrest. He was tried in a Washington, D.C. Superior Court; convicted by a Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge. A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals denied his appeal. He served 6.5 years in federal prison."

164 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:01:40pm

Good afternoon all.

Besides to obvious reasons this really pisses me because my wife, son and his classmates were at the Holocaust Museum two weeks ago.

James W. von Brunn is a sick fucker.
Drudge is reporting: CULPRIT: '89-YEAR OLD WHITE SUPREMACIST'

165 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:01:41pm
166 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:01:55pm

re: #153 Russkilitlover

I think I had dinner with three of those folks of yours Santa Fe. I knew they were mensans because they wouldn't stop mentioning it! They drank expensive mixed drinks all night (I drank iced tea) and then insisted on "fairly" splitting the bill evenly among us. Even then, they came up a bit short and I had to add to cover the tip.

Mensans......meh!

They're kind of annoying. The ones I've met talk a lot about the tragedy of not being able to hang out with people of their own caliber, but when they get into groups, they're boring.

167 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:02:01pm
168 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:02:12pm

re: #158 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I should give you flak for that!

You should instead say, "tanks for the memories".

169 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:02:17pm

Shields Up In South Korea

South Korea is buying 84 of the Standard 2 (SM-2 Block IV) anti-missile missiles. This version is effective against ballistic missile warheads that are about to hit their target.
170 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:02:18pm

There are two different basic forms of American anti-Semite.

Type A, who believes that Jews are "right-wing neo-con Zionazis."
and
Type B, who believes that Jews are "left-wing Bolshevik money-grubbing Kazar commies."

(Note how they cancel each other out.)

This guy turned out to be the Type B, which used to be the dominant form, but which is now surpassed by Type A in sheer numbers. But there are still plenty of these old-school Jew-haters around, as this incident proves.

171 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:02:45pm

re: #168 Occasional Reader

You should instead say, "tanks for the memories".

LOL!

172 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:02:58pm
173 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:02:59pm

re: #162 NY Nana

Please do not make any excuses for him. There just are none, not a one.

Its not an excuse, its an explanation.

There is a difference.

174 SteveC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:03:09pm

"Stuff" to be done - got to run.

175 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:03:14pm

The other day we were at a waterpark, and while totally bored and standing next to the baby who was on his third hour of playing with the exact same toy, I calculated how much water per second went into the big bucket that dumped water from two or three stories up. !,000 gallons of water dumping every 2 1/2 minutes...Why, it's 6.66666 (repeats) gallons per second.

It's the bucket of the beast!

Well, I found it funny, and I had another couple hours of standing next to the world's most fascinating kiddie toy to go. My point here is that sane people see numbers as...numbers. Nothing more, nothing less.

176 Shiplord kirel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:03:19pm

With the usual suspects heaping so much praise on the Tiller assassin, and the apparent success of the endeavour in shutting down the clinic, it was only a matter of time before some other wingnut decided to break out his guns and back up some of those blood-curdling threats they've been making for years.

177 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:03:21pm

re: #163 amir


From your link:

A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals

I guess he's angry there were no wise Latina women.

/

178 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:03:34pm

re: #168 Occasional Reader

You should instead say, "tanks for the memories".

Might this turn into a Punzer thread?

179 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:03:44pm
180 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:04:44pm
181 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:04:54pm

re: #123 MrSilverDragon

I was invited to a Mensa meeting once, but I declined to go because their intellect was beneath me.

/yeah, right.

Ooooh, feeling a bit defensive, are we?

I don't like Mensa parties, and you'd have to walk me into a Mensa meeting handcuffed, foot-shackled, hooded and blindfolded, at gun point. People who are that impressed by their ability to take a test are generally not company I care to keep.

182 iceman  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:05:00pm

nice detailed post at national post from canada

the article has a screen grab from the website of the nutcase

he rails against his judging, advocating and sentencing by various Negroes and Jews.

I hope he was shot by a black security guard

183 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:05:32pm

re: #178 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Might this turn into a Punzer thread?

Come to think of it; no, it shouldn't. Serious subject at hand. I vote we save the puns for an open thread.

184 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:05:34pm

re: #167 Gus 802

Google "James von Brunn" "Ron Paul"

Surprise...surprise! Ron Paul and Stormfront...connect the dots.

185 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:05:41pm

re: #180 Iron Fist

Me? I'm just a little girl...

I still have some of my daughters hair ribbons. You could try wearing them the next time you have to fly.

Or not.

186 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:05:52pm

re: #148 yochanan

yes

Ricky Byrdsong.

187 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:06:04pm

What right-wing extremists?

188 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:06:16pm

re: #170 zombie

There are two different basic forms of American anti-Semite.

Type A, who believes that Jews are "right-wing neo-con Zionazis."
and
Type B, who believes that Jews are "left-wing Bolshevik money-grubbing Kazar commies."

(Note how they cancel each other out.)

This guy turned out to be the Type B, which used to be the dominant form, but which is now surpassed by Type A in sheer numbers. But there are still plenty of these old-school Jew-haters around, as this incident proves.

Which side does the Zionist International Banking Cabal and the Bilderberg Group fall under? I've got one of those guys in my office

189 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:06:17pm

re: #180 Iron Fist

Me? I'm just a little girl...

Really? I guess you've gone through some rather dramatic life changes since last I saw you...

190 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:06:31pm

re: #184 jorline

Surprise...surprise! Ron Paul and Stormfront...connect the dots.

True. Scratch a white supremacist find a Paulian.

191 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:06:35pm

re: #183 Occasional Reader

Come to think of it; no, it shouldn't. Serious subject at hand. I vote we save the puns for an open thread.

Yes, and I intended to add a sarc tag to that, but got in too much of a hurry.

192 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:07:05pm

re: #187 wiffersnapper

What right-wing extremists?

According to the MSM, anyone who didn't vote for Obama.

193 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:07:08pm

re: #181 Dianna

Ooooh, feeling a bit defensive, are we?

Heh, nope. Just making a joke... a very bad one, but a joke nonetheless. ;)

194 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:07:15pm

One day I will expose the Jew/negro/white/oriental/brown/Kazar conspiracy to take us off the Aryan Gold Standard, and you'll all be sorry!

195 avanti  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:07:24pm

Read about his opinion on McCain (Fitness report post)

Von Brunn

196 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:07:43pm

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

197 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:07:49pm

Spy vs Spy: the Persian Version

In Germany, an Iranian born Canadian citizen was convicted to smuggling ballistic missile components to Iran, and was sentenced to three years in prison. The Germans aren't releasing many details, because the smuggler had long been one of their prime spies in Iran. The spy, code named Sinbad, worked for German intelligence for over a decade, and was paid more than $1.4 million for the information is delivered.

Other Western intel officials believe Sinbad was actually working for Iranian intelligence, and was simply feeding the Germans what they wanted to see.

198 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:02pm
199 Shiplord kirel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:03pm

Gee, maybe TSA isn't that far out of line searching the elderly at airports.

200 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:07pm

re: #63 looking closely

The author claims its a Talmudic passage meaning "Kill the best Gentiles". I have no idea if it does or doesn't, if the quote is authentic, or what its context is.

This loon claims its his "life work" and that (shockingly) no publishing house would print it.

There is no such passage in the Talmud.

Making up Talmudic quotes - frequently with page references to pages that do not exist- is a favorite pass time of these sorts of whackos.

201 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:20pm

re: #182 iceman


I hope he was shot by a black security guard

A black, Jewish security guard, if possible. Hell, make him part Khazar, too!

202 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:22pm

re: #170 zombie

There are two different basic forms of American anti-Semite.

Type A, who believes that Jews are "right-wing neo-con Zionazis."
and
Type B, who believes that Jews are "left-wing Bolshevik money-grubbing Kazar commies."

(Note how they cancel each other out.)

This guy turned out to be the Type B, which used to be the dominant form, but which is now surpassed by Type A in sheer numbers. But there are still plenty of these old-school Jew-haters around, as this incident proves.


Well, there was at least one of them around, anyway.

My take on this is that "the Jew" is just the universal scapegoat, like the bogeyman. Whatever evil conspiracy theory you have gets blamed on the "Jews".

If you're a rightwinger and hate Communists, the Jews are Communists. If you're leftist and hate neo-Cons, they're neo-Cons. If someone tosses you in jail, they're a Jew. If the bank repossesses your home, its run by Jews, etc. If you're broke, its because the Jews took your jobs, etc.

This old loon was so nuts, he even referenced the Illuminatus conspiracy (mentioned above).

203 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:38pm

re: #195 avanti

Read about his opinion on McCain (Fitness report post)

Von Brunn

Saw that before. I'm wondering what his connection might be to [Link: www.ussliberty.org?...]

204 Eowyn2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:46pm

re: #13 MandyManners

My first thought was a jihadi.


Jihadi by any other name is still a jihadi

205 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:08:51pm

re: #20 Occasional Reader

Yeah, this guy fits to a tee that profile of a returning Afghanistan/Iraq veteran.

/

lol, this guy is older than Iraq as a nation, isn't he?

206 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:02pm

This is exactly what happens when media pundits pay heed to even the fringes of these hateful creeds and their ideologies. The crazies come out of the the cracks like cockroaches, figuring their day has finally come --- because x said y on TV, people will finally understand what they've been saying all along. It's their turn to shine, to become, to let their hate free.

So if you are one of those supporting all the crazy on TV, you better think on what you are helping create.

207 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:11pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

I think they were referring Iraq and Aghan war vets -- not WWII vets!

208 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:18pm

re: #179 Iron Fist

I just last Friday went and borrowed $6K. A quick process that only took about 15 minutes. I have real good credit.

The scary thing about it, and I didn't think of this until later, was that no-one ever asked to see a single piece of ID.

I guess I have one of those 'honest' faces.

I suspect that is how someone can walk into the Holocaust Museum with a shotgun. Who, before this, was looking for 89 year-old murderers?

209 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:20pm

re: #176 Shiplord kirel

With the usual suspects heaping so much praise on the Tiller assassin, and the apparent success of the endeavour in shutting down the clinic, it was only a matter of time before some other wingnut decided to break out his guns and back up some of those blood-curdling threats they've been making for years.

Why do you assume there is any connection whatever between these two incidents?

210 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:48pm
211 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:48pm

re: #190 Gus 802

True. Scratch a white supremacist find a Paulian.

Agree I think a lot of Paulians are just as bad as von Brunn.

212 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:54pm

I don't follow the far-right-wing pundits, but I'd been interested in what they have to say (or not) about von Brunn.

I'll lay money that they will tend to ignore the mastodon in the living room.

213 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:09:55pm

re: #196 Charles

Assuming that he was indeed in the US Armed Forces as claimed.

I'd say it was the anti-Semitic and 9/11 conspiracy troofering that was more troubling and much more of an indicator of a propensity to violence than anything else.

214 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:01pm

re: #207 zombie

I think they were referring Iraq and Aghan war vets -- not WWII vets!

That's a hell of a sleeper cell. Makes Bin Laden's slow plans look like child's play.

215 Buck  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:14pm

re: #38 Dianna

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

It supposed comes from the Talmud sanhedrin 59.

I don't see it there...however there is a mention that " A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death". However it continues to say that "hence thou mayest learn that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest!"

Confusing.... ? You bet.

216 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:21pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

Sorry BIG stretch and I wish you had not said that.

217 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #46 Dianna

Though, frankly, it would make me laugh in a truly unfair way if it turns out to be true he's a Mensan.

I can confirm that he's not in the US Mensa membership directory.

218 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:33pm

re: #188 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Which side does the Zionist International Banking Cabal and the Bilderberg Group fall under? I've got one of those guys in my office

Type A. Of course, the two strains can interbreed and there is a lot of cross- pollenization.

219 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:38pm

re: #154 John Neverbend

It sounds like an attempt to string together some Hebrew or Aramaic to sound like what he wants. "Tob" is like "Tov" which means good. "Shebbe" is not a word I recognize, although it sounds a bit like "sheva" or seven. "Goyim" means nations or gentiles and "Harog" would be "kill" in the imperative mood. So, it sounds like a dumb-ass attempt to say, "Good. Kill seven gentiles." I did not find this in the two pages of Talmud that I examined, needless to say.

It's gibberish. If this were Arabic, the equivalent to "goyim" would have to be in the accusative; I think the nominative got used here. And whatever equivalent to "tob" is used, it should be in the superlative (aHsan would be my choice) - this "tob" isn't. I can't see Hebrew being far enough from Arabic that it would disobey those basic grammatical rules.

At least he didn't attempt to place a definite article prefix...

220 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:45pm

re: #181 Dianna

Ooooh, feeling a bit defensive, are we?

I don't like Mensa parties, and you'd have to walk me into a Mensa meeting handcuffed, foot-shackled, hooded and blindfolded, at gun point. People who are that impressed by their ability to take a test are generally not company I care to keep.

I got into an arguement with a Mensa guy once who was very impressed with his ability to have an answer ready for anything based on his superior knowledge. I finally got him to shut up by asking with only my lowly training as a Marine, I could cripple him for life in about 10 seconds. He didn't have an answer for that.

221 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:10:52pm

At the 'Ron Paul for President' Yahoo group:

HITLER'S WORST MISTAKE: HE DIDN'T GAS THE JEWS.

222 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:11:00pm
223 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:11:42pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

Is that alleged susceptibility any greater among veterans than the that of the general public or no-veterans?

224 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:11:53pm

James W. von Brunn at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

225 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:01pm

re: #208 razorbacker

I suspect that is how someone can walk into the Holocaust Museum with a shotgun. Who, before this, was looking for 89 year-old murderers?


From the reports we're seeing, it's not that he managed to "walk into the Holocaust Museum with a shotgun", except in the most literal sense of "walk into". He did not make it past security. Brave people returned fire and shut him down.

226 Mithrax  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:13pm

re: #221 Charles

At the 'Ron Paul for President' Yahoo group:

HITLER'S WORST MISTAKE: HE DIDN'T GAS THE JEWS.

Ok. Now I'm blind from reading that crap.

But holy shit whats frightening is that people really do believe that.

227 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:19pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.


Somehow the crack domestic terrorism experts at the DHS underestimated the threat posed by disgruntled WWII era vets.

I'm sure that will be emphasized in the next edition of the report.

In this particular case, I'd say the guys history of violent behavior (eg being imprisoned for carrying a gun at the Fed and attempting a citizen's arrest there) might have been a more reliable indicator than his prior military service.

228 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:43pm

re: #121 Jimmah

Can you quote the part of the DHS report that states that?

re: #160 opnion

How true, the first thing that you do when discharged from the military is look for an extermist group to join.
You don't get liquored up & chase women. sarc.

Some people are tripping over themselves trying to justify what is a gross over generalization that is as insulting as saying that you might be an animal rights extremist IF you are a vegetarian.

229 Mike McDaniel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:45pm

re: #143 Occasional Reader

Odd coinicidence that it was also the name/nickname of one of the Wehrmacht's most successful weapons.

Yes, but it predates Hitler. The Krupp 88mm gun was developed an an antiaircraft piece in 1918.

Turned out that the high velocity needed for effective antiaircraft work was just the ticket for dealing with tanks.

230 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:49pm

re: #221 Charles

At the 'Ron Paul for President' Yahoo group:

HITLER'S WORST MISTAKE: HE DIDN'T GAS THE JEWS.

A nice summation of the Hoiocasut denier point of view:

The Holocaust never happened -- but we wish it had happened!

231 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:51pm

re: #206 Thanos

This is exactly what happens when media pundits pay heed to even the fringes of these hateful creeds and their ideologies. The crazies come out of the the cracks like cockroaches, figuring their day has finally come --- because x said y on TV, people will finally understand what they've been saying all along. It's their turn to shine, to become, to let their hate free.

So if you are one of those supporting all the crazy on TV, you better think on what you are helping create.

Up-Ding!

232 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:55pm

re: #224 Charles

James W. von Brunn at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

Fitting.

233 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:12:58pm

re: #224 Charles

James W. von Brunn at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

OMG! A nirther!

234 Shiplord kirel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:13:12pm

re: #209 looking closely

Why do you assume there is any connection whatever between these two incidents?

Inspiration, and the strong correlation in conspiracist beliefs between the two groups. Compare the anti-government/conspiracist background of the accused Tiller assassin, Scott Roeder, with the rants of this ancient pycho. It's all there: the Fed, Jewish bankers, anti-Internationalism.

235 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:13:14pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

I was envisioning someone--younger.

236 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:13:27pm

re: #178 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Might this turn into a Punzer tread?

FTFY!

237 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:13:31pm

The bi-partisan dehumanization campaign is bearing fruit.

238 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:03pm

re: #233 wrenchwench

OMG! A nirther!

...and a Freeper.....

239 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:07pm

re: #224 Charles

James W. von Brunn at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

Bet that gets nuked out fast.

240 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:08pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

He's an 89 year old WWII veteran.

If he had blond hair in his early years does that mean blonds are susceptible to becoming domestic terrorists?

241 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:12pm

re: #207 zombie

I think they were referring Iraq and Aghan war vets -- not WWII vets!

and we have no way of knowing, right now, if his claim is even valid. he wouldn't be the first fake vet if it's not.

242 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:12pm

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

This guy's "Kill the best gentiles" phrase (what does that even mean?) sounds like he maybe got a page of Mein Kampf scrumbled up with a copy of "Casey at the Bat" ("Kill him! Kill the umpire!").

Mudville... obsession with "mud people"... makes sense.

/

243 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:23pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

Are we sure?

Heck, he even looks like L. Ron Hubbard, just a bit. I can hardly wait to see what happens when the digging starts.

244 dhg4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:24pm

From today's Washington Post:

Ross's most visible action thus far was a trip to the Persian Gulf in late April to reassure anxious Arab officials that the United States would not cut a deal with Iran and abandon them. Many Arab officials are skeptical of Ross because of the perception that he tilted heavily toward Israel during the Clinton years.

Before joining the Obama administration, Ross co-founded a not-for-profit group called United Against Nuclear Iran, whose executive director is Mark Wallace, a Bush administration official. Wallace said the group grew out of discussions with Holbrooke and former CIA director R. James Woolsey about how to achieve bipartisan consensus on the dangers of a nuclear-armed Iran. Wallace declined to reveal the contributors to the group's $2 million budget last year, but two people familiar with the organization said many are pro-Israel advocates.

The gist of the article is that Dennis Ross is too pro-Israel to do his job as envoy to Iran. (He is not too pro-Israel. He is too devoted to peace processing, but that's a separate issue.)

To what degree does such casual labelling feed the sort of paranoia and hatred that von Brunn nurse?

245 amir  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:28pm

OK Here is the source of the quote about killing the best gentiles from the ADL site

A far more serious accusation than name-calling is made when anti-Semites echo the blood libel and claim that Jewish law enjoins or permits Jews to murder non-Jews whenever feasible. To support this allegation polemicists cite a passage in the Jerusalem Talmud2 stating in the name of R. Simeon b. Yochai (mid-second century C.E.) that “The best of the non-Jews should be killed.” But Jewish tradition has always understood this statement as referring only to a situation in which Jews are at war; at such times, R. Simeon says, the status of a non-Jewish opponent should not be taken into account, for war cannot be waged with half-measures. That R. Simeon referred to wartime may be gleaned from his life story, for he lived amidst the Hadrianic persecutions of the second century C.E. and participated in the Bar Kochba revolt against Rome. More importantly, however, every subsequent citation of R. Simeon’s statement in Jewish legal literature has appended the words “ בשעת מלחמה ”—“in times of war.”3 Yet polemicists continue to cite the unqualified passage from the Jerusalem Talmud in an effort to raise suspicions that contemporary Jews are secretly commanded to murder their non-Jewish neighbors. Such propagandizing is a purposeful misrepresentation.
B.


246 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:35pm

re: #219 Zimriel

It's gibberish. If this were Arabic, the equivalent to "goyim" would have to be in the accusative; I think the nominative got used here. And whatever equivalent to "tob" is used, it should be in the superlative (aHsan would be my choice) - this "tob" isn't. I can't see Hebrew being far enough from Arabic that it would disobey those basic grammatical rules.

At least he didn't attempt to place a definite article prefix...

Of course it's made up. I can't speak for Arabic, but Hebrew and Aramaic (to the best of my knowledge) do not have noun cases as in Latin or Greek. The verb is fairly complex, but nouns are just singular, plural or dual whether they're subject, object or whatever.

247 KenJen  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:14:39pm

re: #224 Charles

James W. von Brunn at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

The thread has been pulled.

248 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:03pm

re: #239 Thanos

Bet that gets nuked out fast.

It did.

Here's the cached version.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

249 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:10pm
Early on, during the war-torn 20th Century, the only broadcast networks : ABC, CBS, and NBC -- were JEW owned. Today, JEWS control ALL important sources of information (the major networks, Newspapers, Magazines, Book-publishing, Tin-Pan Alley, Music & Recording Industry, Hollywood, Encyclopedia Britannica, Public schools and Universities, the Catholic Church, etc.).

And who owns huge stakes in them today?

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:12pm

re: #219 Zimriel

It's gibberish. If this were Arabic, the equivalent to "goyim" would have to be in the accusative; I think the nominative got used here. And whatever equivalent to "tob" is used, it should be in the superlative (aHsan would be my choice) - this "tob" isn't. I can't see Hebrew being far enough from Arabic that it would disobey those basic grammatical rules.

At least he didn't attempt to place a definite article prefix...

Hebrew doesn't use cases, and if this is Gemara, it should be Aramaic, which IIUC, doesn't use cases either. I need to see this in context. I don't suppose he gave a citation?

251 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:16pm

re: #230 zombie

A nice summation of the Hoiocasut denier point of view:

The Holocaust never happened -- but we wish it had happened!

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one...

252 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:22pm

re: #82 MrSilverDragon

Unfortunately, that goes against the basic tenets of Freedom of Speech.*

*just as a side note, I abhor any site condoning stuff like that.


Yep.


Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

~Benjamin Franklin

253 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:38pm

The Khazars

were a semi-nomadic Turkic people who dominated the Pontic steppe and the North Caucasus from the 7th to the 10th century CE. The name 'Khazar'[1] seems to be tied to a Turkic verb form meaning "wandering".[2]

In the 7th century CE, the Khazars founded an independent Khaganate in the Northern Caucasus along the Caspian Sea. Although the Khazars were initially Tengri shamanists, many of them converted to Christianity, Islam, and other religions. During the eighth or ninth century the state religion became Judaism. At their height, the Khazar khaganate and its tributaries controlled much of what is today southern Russia, western Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine, Azerbaijan, large portions of the Northern Caucasus ( Circassia, Dagestan, Chechnya), parts of Georgia and the Crimea.

Between 965 and 969, their sovereignty was broken by Sviatoslav I of Kiev, and they became a subject people of Kievan Rus'. Gradually displaced by the Rus, the Kipchaks, and later the conquering Mongol Golden Horde, the Khazars largely disappeared as a culturally distinct people.

Yeah, I'd watch out for them Khazars!

254 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:40pm

re: #221 Charles

Shhhh! You're obsessed with Ron Paul!
/

255 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:15:44pm

re: #249 Ben Hur

And who owns huge stakes in them today?

Australians?
/

256 midwestgak  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:16:05pm

re: #164 jorline

How's business? topic of this thread aside.

257 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:16:17pm

re: #196 Charles

The DHS report said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to extremism -- well, here's one.

not to argue the DHS issue, but do we know for certain he's really a vet? there are plenty of fakes out there, and more than a few of those are whack....

258 hazzyday  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:16:19pm

Paulians, Troofers, Neo nazi's, Young earth creationists and this guy. All the same neural pathway with their synapses firing off in sync.

259 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:16:22pm

re: #224 Charles

James W. von Brunn at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

Now that thread is missing.

260 amir  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:16:23pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

See comment 245 for citation and explanation

261 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:16:30pm

re: #234 Shiplord kirel

Inspiration, and the strong correlation in conspiracist beliefs between the two groups. Compare the anti-government/conspiracist background of the accused Tiller assassin, Scott Roeder, with the rants of this ancient pycho. It's all there: the Fed, Jewish bankers, anti-Internationalism.

Eh. ..

Take two steps back and all these psychos look the same regardless of their position on the political spectrum nor specific beliefs.

I don't see any specific connection between the abortion haters and the Jew haters, except for well, hatred and an affinity for violence.

262 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:17:07pm

re: #118 zombie

Ah, so he's Truther too.

Further confirming my opinion that the 9/11 Truth movement is a thinly-veiled form of anti-Semitism.


I don't know; I think it's more of an anti-american, anti-authority kind of thing for most pushers. For the people who made the crap up initially, you might be right.

263 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:17:11pm

re: #248 Gus 802

Wow. The craziness is bound to come home to roost. If not now, soon.

264 Lee Coller  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:17:11pm

re: #224 Charles

James W. von Brunn at Free Republic: Obama is missing!

That thread is now gone. FR actually cleaned something up, amazing.

265 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:17:15pm

So, it's a grand alignment of all possible crazinesses -- he's a:

Truther
Nirther
Holocaust denier
Illuminati nut
Bilderberger/Trilateral wacko
"Jews are Kazars" loon
...

Is there any conspiracy he doesn't believe in?

266 Red Pencil  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:17:20pm

Here's James Winneker von Brunn's essays on the shaping of his own character:

When I returned after the war, New York had become the largest Jew city in the World. EVERYTHING had changed. The streets were unclean. Taxi drivers were officious. Cigar smoke dominated the fine restaurants, vulgar talk. Ugliness. Rudeness, push and shove, Prestigious chairmanships of the Metropolitan Opera, Metropolitan Museum of Art, Carnegie Hall, for example, were held by Jews. Almost all art galleries were Jew-owned. Newspapers, publishing, tin-pan alley . . . you know the story.

The Herald Tribune, an Aryan newspaper, was put out of business because JEWS wouldn't advertise in it. The city was bursting with "gassed" JEWS . It took 3 weeks to find an apartment. One day I was walking across 57th ST. at Madison Avenue and the light changed to yellow as I was midway. A car jumped the light, shot up to me, slamming on his brakes. He yelled, Get the fuuuck outta my way, asshole. I dented his car hood with my fist. Motherfucker, he screamed, pointing to the far corner of the street -- I'll see you over there, there, there -- he pointed to the far corner. He was a young JEW. He found a parking spot and I went over to him. OK, foul mouth said I -- get out. He said fuck you, rolled up his window and took off.

[Link: www.gnosticliberationfront.com...]

267 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:17:44pm

re: #249 Ben Hur

And who owns huge stakes in them today?

I'll say the Chinese. And you know how much Jews like Chinese food.

SEE IT ALL FITS!

268 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:01pm

re: #249 Ben Hur

Jews own the Catholic Church?!

Well that explains why at Christmas Mass this year, they served Chinese food.

269 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:06pm

re: #265 zombie

So, it's a grand alignment of all possible crazinesses -- he's a:

Truther
Nirther
Holocaust denier
Illuminati nut
Bilderberger/Trilateral wacko
"Jews are Kazars" loon
...

Is there any conspiracy he doesn't believe in?

he left out the Zionist Honcos...... %-)

270 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:26pm

His biography says he has a degree in JOURNALISM.

/True? I do not know.

I want to see the guilt by association angle worked here. I really, really do. Sauce for the nirthers, etc.

271 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:32pm

re: #217 John Neverbend

I can confirm that he's not in the US Mensa membership directory.

Oh. I'm not going to ask how you know.

I'm now giggling helplessly, and I probably won't be able to stop until after I have some lunch.

272 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:36pm

re: #204 Eowyn2

Jihadi by any other name is still a jihadi

Yes, but this didn't really have anything to do with Brunn's religion, as far as I can see. Just plain ol' racist, with extra anti-semitism.

273 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:38pm

re: #245 amir

OK Here is the source of the quote about killing the best gentiles from the ADL site

Good explanation, and one that makes perfect sense.

Its basically saying during times of war (against Jews), you target the officers.

274 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:56pm

re: #267 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll say the Chinese. And you know how much Jews like Chinese food.

SEE IT ALL FITS!

I didn't think this thread would make me hungry. I was wrong.

275 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:18:58pm

re: #258 hazzyday

This guy was the pu pu platter of craziness. He had a bit from column A, B, C, and D.

276 amir  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:19:10pm

Here is a link to the ADLs essay
The Talmud in Anti-Semitic Polemics

277 Lee Coller  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:19:13pm

re: #264 Lee Coller

That thread is now gone. FR actually cleaned something up, amazing.

I see the thread was from december of last year. I guess it was OK until the submitter decided to commit an act of domestic terrorism.

278 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:19:15pm

re: #259 Kenneth

Now that thread is missing.

re: #264 Lee Coller

That thread is now gone. FR actually cleaned something up, amazing.

Go here:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

279 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:19:31pm

re: #228 Wendya

Some people are tripping over themselves trying to justify what is a gross over generalization that is as insulting as saying that you might be an animal rights extremist IF you are a vegetarian.

I think that you & I are saying the same thing. Any data that I have seen shows returning veterans less prone to violence that their peer group in general.
If there is data that shows vets more likely to join extremist groups, I have not seen it.

280 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:19:53pm

re: #269 redc1c4

he left out the Zionist Honcos...... %-)

He totally missed the reptilian ET angle, too.

281 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:04pm

re: #265 zombie

So, it's a grand alignment of all possible crazinesses -- he's a:

Truther
Nirther
Holocaust denier
Illuminati nut
Bilderberger/Trilateral wacko
"Jews are Kazars" loon
...

Is there any conspiracy he doesn't believe in?


There are probably a few good ones he hasn't heard of!

Some individuals are just prone to believing in conspiracies. This guy seems to be one of them.

282 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:06pm
283 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:13pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Wow. The craziness is bound to come home to roost. If not now, soon.

It sure. Busy summer for DHS and the FBI.

284 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:18pm
285 gegenkritik  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:23pm

re: #201 Occasional Reader

I hope he was shot by a black security guard

A black, Jewish security guard, if possible. Hell, make him part Khazar, too!


I assume that his "informations" about Khazars are referring to a popular myth among anti-semites: that all Jews today are of Khazarian descent, while the "real" Jews have been vanished. Of course, this is nonscientific garbage

286 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:32pm

re: #275 lawhawk

This guy was the pu pu platter of craziness. He had a bit from column A, B, C, and D.

Hmmm. Need cigs - and there is a Chinese place next to the convenience store on Main Street in Pikesville.........

287 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:46pm

re: #266 Red Pencil

The city was bursting with "gassed" JEWS

This is a ridiculous comment that I always see popping up in with the Deniers.

Note to morons: No one is claiming that ALL 6 million murdered Jews were gassed.

288 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:51pm

re: #146 NY Nana

/Had you ever seen this 'nut' out and about?

Live press conference....

No, and even if I had, there's probably no way I or anyone else could have predicted he would do such a terrible thing (based on what we know so far). But the open promotion of such repugnant views on the web and elsewhere allows DHS or the FBI to know who they should be tracking. Unless they get wind of a specific plot, or you want to implement "Minority Report," that's the best we've got.

289 Shiplord kirel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:20:51pm

re: #261 looking closely

Eh. ..

Take two steps back and all these psychos look the same regardless of their position on the political spectrum nor specific beliefs.

I don't see any specific connection between the abortion haters and the Jew haters, except for well, hatred and an affinity for violence.

Now, just what sort of connection did I assume in the first place? It is logical inference that one of these incidents can inspire others, especially when a sizable body of people endorse the original act and assert that it has achieved its goal. Violent nuts tend to migrate around among the various fringe causes but it is still the same fringe.

290 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:21:10pm

re: #253 Kenneth

The Kazar bit is a roundabout kookspiracy method of trying to rationalize away the existence of an Israeli state, if I remember roughly it ;ies that the Khazars were the real Jews, and nomads, and therefor have no claim to the land. There are several versions and twists to it out there iirc

291 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:21:16pm

re: #279 opnion

I think that you & I are saying the same thing. Any data that I have seen shows returning veterans less prone to violence that their peer group in general.
If there is data that shows vets more likely to join extremist groups, I have not seen it.

And in ANY event using this 89 year old fruitcake to prove your point that the report was right is outrageous.

292 NY Nana  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:21:33pm

re: #173 looking closely

Its not an excuse, its an explanation.

There is a difference.

It is, as far as I am concerned, an excuse for a POS who has been like this before he reached the age of 89...there is nothing new about it.

I am 71, and have a number of medical problems, but there is nothing on this earth that could or would cause me to act like he has. And since as far as I know, I could never take out my fear of old age and/or death on anyone. I fear neither, BTW, life and death are actually a part of the life cycle, and I trust in G-d.

We all try to live whatever life we have as best we can. I very much doubt that you would do anything like this in your life time, and may it be a long one.

I just hope that his age will not preclude him from a long sentence in prison.

293 subsailor68  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:22:12pm

re: #266 Red Pencil

Here's James Winneker von Brunn's essays on the shaping of his own character:

After reading that insanity, it's clear that it wasn't only his opinions that put off publishers...the guy can't write for shit.

294 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:22:27pm

re: #282 Iron Fist

I used to have a friend who could tell if I were carrying a gun by the way I held my hands.

Of course, it helped that the gun you carried was an M-60.

295 redc1c4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:22:47pm

re: #282 Iron Fist

Yeah, like it or not, we all profile. Some people do look scarier than others. Some stand out of the crowd more. These people get more attention paid to them by security, by other people around them, etc. Sometimes it is little things. I used to have a friend who could tell if I were carrying a gun by the way I held my hands. It was nothing real obvious, but that little bit of difference in my posture to the world was like a neon sign to him.

I wonder if this guy didn't stand out? If maybe the security guard saw him, and then he shot the security guy? Even if you cut it down, a gauge still isn't exactly that concealable.

one of the smaller 410's would cut down well..... like the Snakecharmer.

296 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:22:56pm

re: #292 NY Nana

Personally I hope he doesn't get up off his hospital bed.

297 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:22:58pm

re: #278 Gus 802

Go here:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Good Google Fu on your part. I read down a little in the comments - and the crazy is all over them. Normal looney people seem sane to me now by comparison.

298 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:23:06pm

re: #279 opnion

I think that you & I are saying the same thing. Any data that I have seen shows returning veterans less prone to violence that their peer group in general.
If there is data that shows vets more likely to join extremist groups, I have not seen it.

I think the point of the DHS report is that returning vets are more likely to be targeted for RECRUITMENT by extremist groups.

Again, I don't necessarily have a problem with the main points of the DHS report , namely that there are a variety right wing extremist elements in the USA, and the political and economic climate is right to encourage them.

The problem with the report is the unprofessional way in which its written. Its not well-documented, a big heavy-handed, and its full of open speculation.

299 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:23:16pm

re: #170 zombie

There are two different basic forms of American anti-Semite.

Type A, who believes that Jews are "right-wing neo-con Zionazis."
and
Type B, who believes that Jews are "left-wing Bolshevik money-grubbing Kazar commies."

(Note how they cancel each other out.)

This guy turned out to be the Type B, which used to be the dominant form, but which is now surpassed by Type A in sheer numbers. But there are still plenty of these old-school Jew-haters around, as this incident proves.


I'm just glad America has minimal amounts of the older type C "You killed Christ" anti-semitism.

300 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:23:23pm

re: #292 NY Nana

I just hope that his age will not preclude him from a long sentence in prison. execution

301 NY Nana  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:23:32pm

re: #182 iceman

The National Post is one of my favorites.

Excellent coverage!

302 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:23:35pm

re: #246 John Neverbend

Of course it's made up. I can't speak for Arabic, but Hebrew and Aramaic (to the best of my knowledge) do not have noun cases as in Latin or Greek. The verb is fairly complex, but nouns are just singular, plural or dual whether they're subject, object or whatever.

Thank you.

Yeah, Arabic has (three) noun cases, which correspond to nominative (-u), accusative (-a), and a subordinate case (-i) which mostly handles genitive. In any case, we've since seen the full quote - with an "impersonal" (read: passive) verb - which makes clear that "goyim" was the subject (read: nominative) anyway.

The full quote - we've just been told - is "the best of the goyim", and that (again, in Arabic) should be an iDafa construction - it would look something like ahsanu al-kuffaru. Shouldn't Hebrew also have something like "tob ha-goyim"? And what's with the "shebbe" in there?

303 Mike McDaniel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:24:16pm

re: #270 OldLineTexan

His biography says he has a degree in JOURNALISM.

/True? I do not know.

I want to see the guilt by association angle worked here. I really, really do. Sauce for the nirthers, etc.

Yes! Give the Propaganda Press a good dose of their own venom!

304 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:24:23pm

re: #290 Thanos

The Kazar bit is a roundabout kookspiracy method of trying to rationalize away the existence of an Israeli state, if I remember roughly it ;ies that the Khazars were the real Jews, and nomads, and therefor have no claim to the land. There are several versions and twists to it out there iirc


Do you think he knows that white people were invented in a science lab?

305 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:24:24pm

re: #297 Catttt

Good Google Fu on your part. I read down a little in the comments - and the crazy is all over them. Normal looney people seem sane to me now by comparison.

Thanks. It's really kind of easy. Just enter the original URL into Google and usually it shows a cached link.

306 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:24:26pm

re: #299 nikis-knight

I'm just glad America has minimal amounts of the older type C "You killed Christ" anti-semitism.

Can we get Pat Buchanan to comment on that?

307 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:25:02pm

re: #284 buzzsawmonkey

Since "Khazar" is similar to the Hebrew word for "pig"--which doubtless has an Arabic cognate--I have wondered whether this may be the source of the "pigs" part of the "Jews are sons of apes and pigs" in the Koran, seeing as how the Khazars did supposedly convert to Judaism a few hundred years before Mohammed came up with Islam, and disappeared a few hundred years after Islam had conquered much of the Middle East..

The Khazars converted to Judaism in the 8th or 9th century. Islam was founded in 627 AD.

308 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:25:25pm

re: #294 Occasional Reader

Of course, it helped that the gun you carried was an M-60.

/Is that a tripod-mounted machine gun in your pocket?

309 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:25:38pm

re: #292 NY Nana

I just hope that his age will not preclude him from a long sentence in prison.

That's mostly up to G-d, and "long sentence" might well be an understatement.

310 JHW  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:25:42pm

A poster mentioned he thought ships, not individuals, were awarded battle stars, which might be reason to question the reporting of the individual's service claims. I find that individuals indeed could be awarded battle stars (they are affixed to Campaign ribbons) for WW2 service.
Navy and Marine Corps Award Manual (actually a listing of actions for eligibility.

I know for a fact they were also awarded in Vietnam, for individuals, also affixed to the Campaign ribbon.

311 NY Nana  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:25:50pm

re: #296 Nevergiveup

Personally I hope he doesn't get up off his hospital bed.

Same here, but at the same time? I would love to see him in prison for the rest of his misbegotten life.

/They might even let him convert to the cult of islam.

312 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:25:57pm
313 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:26:22pm

re: #302 Zimriel

Thank you.

Yeah, Arabic has (three) noun cases, which correspond to nominative (-u), accusative (-a), and a subordinate case (-i) which mostly handles genitive. In any case, we've since seen the full quote - with an "impersonal" (read: passive) verb - which makes clear that "goyim" was the subject (read: nominative) anyway.

The full quote - we've just been told - is "the best of the goyim", and that (again, in Arabic) should be an iDafa construction - it would look something like ahsanu al-kuffaru. Shouldn't Hebrew also have something like "tob ha-goyim"? And what's with the "shebbe" in there?

You are aware that "goyim" and "kuffar" do not mean the same thing?

314 Flavia  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:26:42pm

re: #12 Zimriel

I posted on the previous thread that we can expect aeroport searches to get even more dehumanising. Especially if we're a bit too blond and have too Germanic a last name. I could easily see TSA authorities getting their licks in.

Hopefully, those of us who fit any new profiles will behave with dignity & understanding, rather than ranting and whining and refusing to see where the true problem is.

And I am someone who has been searched twice because I was flying while pregnant - and I looked like a skinny woman with a basket-ball stuck under my shirt, I couldn't find my driver's license, & I knew darned well how suspicious that looked. So, both times I eagerly complied as showily as possible so that everyone around me could feel comfortable flying with me.

315 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:26:46pm

re: #306 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Can we get Pat Buchanan to comment on that?

Mel Gibson also; he belongs to the group that split off the Catholic Church over blaming Jews for Jesus' death.

316 Eowyn2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:27:11pm

re: #176 Shiplord kirel

With the usual suspects heaping so much praise on the Tiller assassin, and the apparent success of the endeavour in shutting down the clinic, it was only a matter of time before some other wingnut decided to break out his guns and back up some of those blood-curdling threats they've been making for years.

Are you really seeing a connection between these two?
Do you also see a connection between the Tiller murder and the Long Murder?

The only connection I see is three psychos.

317 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:27:23pm

re: #249 Ben Hur

And who owns huge stakes in them today?

Jews control the Catholic Church? That will come as a great surprise to Pope Benedict.

318 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:27:33pm

re: #300 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Assuming he survives his wounds (not a trivial concern given his age), the chance of him getting the death penalty here is nil.

First of all, Washington DC doesn't have the death penalty.

Even if it did, by the time this guy were convicted and all his appeals exhausted, he'd likely be dead of natural causes.

319 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:27:35pm

Since the Holocaust didn't really happen; did this attack really happen?

320 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:27:40pm

Internet Archive for James von Brunn's website holywesternempire dot org:

[Link: holywesternempire.org...]

And this is the same but in a directory structure:

[Link: holywesternempire.org...]

About 4 pages...

321 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:27:51pm

re: #280 Occasional Reader

He totally missed the reptilian ET angle, too.

I think that's a side-dish of the Bilderberger/Illuminati blue plate special.

322 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:27:54pm
323 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:01pm

re: #302 Zimriel

And what's with the "shebbe" in there?

"You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind." So, I can't elaborate any further, I'm afraid.

324 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:09pm

The gunman drove a red car? Hum. I wonder what that means?
/

325 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:14pm
326 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:16pm

Here is an interesting link about some of the numerous attempted Talmudic smears that groups like both Stormfront and Radio Islam try to perpetuate.

When you read the rebuttals, you will see that what is taken as "quotes" are at best purposefully mistranslated quote mines taken completely away from the real meaning, and more commonly, complete fabrications.

[Link: www.geocities.com...]

An even better site that goes into refuting all of this - in much more scholarly detail:

[Link: talmud.faithweb.com...]

There is an entire web lore of completely evil conspiracy kooks out there who want to try to "prove" to the world that the Talmud is the real "protocols of zion." If you ever see something that supposedly comes from the Talmud, and it says something completely hateful, you can almost certainly bet that it can trace it's origins to the original Radio Islam smear.

327 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:17pm

re: #316 Eowyn2

Are you really seeing a connection between these two?
Do you also see a connection between the Tiller murder and the Long Murder?

The only connection I see is three psychos.

Seems like a lot of wackos are coming out from under their rocks.
And no, I don't think they're related, except that there is a lot of craziness going around.

328 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:18pm

re: #291 Nevergiveup

And in ANY event using this 89 year old fruitcake to prove your point that the report was right is outrageous.

If the reports are true, this is just a crazy, bigoted ,old fool.
I don't see how past military service, particularly World War 11 could have played a role.
There was a school field trip at the museum , so it is good that he never actually gained entry.

329 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:31pm

re: #290 Thanos

Yes, the Palis insist the Jews of today are descended from the Khazars and are not from the Israel and therefore have no claim to "Palestine". The Turanists have a version of that conspiracy theory too.

330 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:31pm

re: #318 looking closely

Assuming he survives his wounds (not a trivial concern given his age), the chance of him getting the death penalty here is nil.

First of all, Washington DC doesn't have the death penalty.

Even if it did, by the time this guy were convicted and all his appeals exhausted, he'd likely be dead of natural causes.

I'm sure a Jewish doctor will save him, just like Faracon.

331 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:40pm

re: #317 doppelganglander

Jews control the Catholic Church? That will come as a great surprise to Pope Benedict.

They're VERY sneaky.

332 2by2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:50pm

re: #38 Dianna

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

Just asked one of my Rabbi friends here in NYC, unfortunately it's one of those things which requires a bit of reading to get an understanding of the quote.
Here is what he answered back:
"With him some of those "incriminating" lines in the Talmud. that one happens to be in Kiddushin. To understand it properly and see how it is totally misunderstood you must read - Maharal's Be'er HaGoleh, which they have in English - he goes through these statements and explains them. The context usually with these lines is כותי. Meaning: pagans who threw their kids into the fire and believed in anarchy.
It's for a longer discussion."

I'll keep you updated when I receive more input.....

333 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:28:52pm

Has anyone here, tried, or knows someone who tried a citizen's arrest?


And two follow ups:

Are you or they, insane?

Did it work?

334 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:29:08pm

re: #256 midwestgak

How's business? topic of this thread aside.

{gak}

Business is very good, thank you, but the question is will we survive. Banks are not lending and I need more than one restaurant to support the family. It sucks being under capitalized.

How are you?

335 Shiplord kirel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:29:13pm

Gee, I wonder which sub-species of wingnut loon will strike next? If a young earth creationist shoots up my lab this afternoon, we'll have our answer.

336 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:29:31pm

I can't wait to hear what else he's done, other than on the computer.
It's hard to believe this could be the first thing... at his age...

337 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:29:32pm

I'm sitting here thinking about this (I will soon be grocery shopping and thinking about it):

Generally, I try to avoid membership groups that don't do anything, but are about your ancestors or attributes or whatever. What's the point? To feel special? To feel better than the unwashed masses? To sit around and talk about how special you are?

There's a supposedly high-prestige group I qualify to join, and I've always said I wouldn't join because they would expect me to use the name Mrs. (my husband's first and last name), but actually, I think it's more the snobbery.

338 quickjustice  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:29:34pm

Hmmm. He fought the Japanese, not the Germans. An ex-con with six years of hard time under his belt. And he chose a highly symbolic target-- the Holocaust Museum, repository of some of the evidence of the evil fruits of his style of white supremacy. He was trying to kill history and the truth.

339 Eowyn2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:29:44pm

re: #202 looking closely

Well, there was at least one of them around, anyway.

My take on this is that "the Jew" is just the universal scapegoat, like the bogeyman. Whatever evil conspiracy theory you have gets blamed on the "Jews".

If you're a rightwinger and hate Communists, the Jews are Communists. If you're leftist and hate neo-Cons, they're neo-Cons. If someone tosses you in jail, they're a Jew. If the bank repossesses your home, its run by Jews, etc. If you're broke, its because the Jews took your jobs, etc.

This old loon was so nuts, he even referenced the Illuminatus conspiracy (mentioned above).

Of course he is nuts.

340 brainsample  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:29:53pm

This guy, Jeremiah Wright and Cynthia McKinney sound like fellow travellers to me.

341 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:30:04pm

re: #313 Ben Hur

You are aware that "goyim" and "kuffar" do not mean the same thing?

I was going for the nearest equivalent in Arabic, given the difference between Jewish and Arabic cultural conceptions of The Other.

342 zombie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:30:05pm

re: #266 Red Pencil

Here's James Winneker von Brunn's essays on the shaping of his own character:

[Link: www.gnosticliberationfront.com...]

Great link! Another excerpt:

"She met my wife and step-daughter, Linda. They got along famously. In time she invited us to move in with her in her pleasant Pasadena home.

Linda, 14, attended Pasadena High. 60% black. Negro boys wanted to date her. To refuse was to be called a racist. One day she was accosted on the stairs by a huge Negress, who leveled a barrage of filthy language at her. Linda, 110-lbs, drove a fist into the garbage-bag's gut and pushed her down the stairs. The principal told me it would be best for Linda to transfer. Meanwhile the new edition of Rob's book, re-titled Zionist Rape of the Holy Land, came off the press. Because of the subject matter I encountered many difficulties and delays in producing the book. The packager, for example, hired by the printer, turned out to be a Jew. He wouldn't release the books to me. I had to sic the police on him. Meanwhile, we all agreed to get out of Pasadena and move north."

An epic tale of sheer lunacy!

343 amir  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:30:06pm

re: #332 2by2

You can find an explanation in comment #245

344 Flavia  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:30:20pm

re: #63 looking closely

The author claims its a Talmudic passage meaning "Kill the best Gentiles". I have no idea if it does or doesn't, if the quote is authentic, or what its context is.

It's not. It's totally fabricated.

This loon claims its his "life work" and that (shockingly) no publishing house would print it.

Of course - and you know all the publishers are JOOOOZ....!

345 dhg4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:30:32pm

re: #284 buzzsawmonkey

Since "Khazar" is similar to the Hebrew word for "pig"--which doubtless has an Arabic cognate--I have wondered whether this may be the source of the "pigs" part of the "Jews are sons of apes and pigs" in the Koran, seeing as how the Khazars did supposedly convert to Judaism a few hundred years before Mohammed came up with Islam, and disappeared a few hundred years after Islam had conquered much of the Middle East..

There is a famous book of Jewish philosophy called the "Kuzari" about a nation that was trying to decide which faith to adopt (and chose Judaism) - roughly the story of the Khazars. But that Hebrew name has a different root than the one for pig.

346 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:30:40pm

re: #330 Ben Hur

I'm sure a Jewish doctor will save him, just like Faracon.

Then a Jewish lawyer can defend him in court.

347 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:30:52pm
348 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:31:16pm

re: #325 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe the Museum itself isn't really there.

I've been there.

(Of course, Da Juice paid me to say that.)

349 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:31:20pm

I guess that it may have been overtaken by events, but I find it ironic that white supremacists people are so dead-set against 'people of color'.

I was taught that 'white' is the presence of all colors in the spectrum.

I guess that doesn't apply, anymore.

350 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:31:32pm
351 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:31:36pm

With the Tiller shooting and now this, I'm sorry folks -- but that DHS report has been vindicated.

The report was a heads-up to law enforcement, warning of a risk of increased attacks from right wing extremists, and with two attacks in two weeks it looks like the heads-up was well warranted.

352 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:31:57pm

re: #306 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Can we get Pat Buchanan to comment on that?

Do we really want to hear what he would say? Loathesome toad of a man.

353 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:32:03pm

re: #350 Iron Fist

Gnostic Liberation Front? At least he isn't claiming to be a Christian.

That's a site unrelated to him.

354 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:32:24pm

re: #319 Ben Hur

Since the Holocaust didn't really happen; did this attack really happen?

Only in the minds of conspiracy theorists.
/

355 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:32:27pm

re: #333 jones

Has anyone here, tried, or knows someone who tried a citizen's arrest?


And two follow ups:

Are you or they, insane?

Did it work?

Me and a buddy stopped a drunk guy from driving off from a traffic accident, does that count?

356 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:32:29pm

re: #329 Kenneth

If you're hoping to come up with a grand unified theory of conspriacy mongering and anti-Semitism, let me save you the trip.

All these nutters have to do is just blame the Jews and fill in the respective holes in their theories with "the Jews did it". Doesn't matter the issue or the relevance.

357 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:32:30pm

re: #307 Kenneth

The Khazars converted to Judaism in the 8th or 9th century. Islam was founded in 627 AD.

You are of course correct, but you should also add that a Jewish convert is a Jew and that once the Khazars did convert, they intermarried with "full blooded" Jews to the point that challenging their Jewishness on any level is only the sort of game a truly racist idiot would do.

358 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:07pm
359 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:08pm

re: #350 Iron Fist

Gnostic Liberation Front? At least he isn't claiming to be a Christian.

I thought the No-Stick Liberation Front were all about promoting Teflon-coated cookware?

360 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:15pm

re: #324 Nevergiveup

The gunman drove a red car? Hum. I wonder what that means?
/

He had a big gun?
/

361 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:18pm

re: #351 Charles

With the Tiller shooting and now this, I'm sorry folks -- but that DHS report has been vindicated.

The report was a heads-up to law enforcement, warning of a risk of increased attacks from right wing extremists, and with two attacks in two weeks it looks like the heads-up was well warranted.

And let's not forget the military recruitment center. Got to keep an eye open for all the nuts.

362 jill e  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:21pm

Just turned on Fox and saw this news. My son is in DC with 8th grade group from Iowa and Holocaust Museum is on their itinerary. Group very excited because the tickets are difficult to come by. Kids are keeping cell phones off during the day's events so hopefully we'll get some sort of news....

363 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:21pm

Warning: Link to evil site


The Illuminati Exposed site says that this guy's a must-read for all veterans:

A new book, Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog! (Kill the Best Gentiles), by WWII, American PT Boat Captain, James W. von Brunn, is a must read for all veterans and all those who have lost a father, son, brother or other loved ones in war.

364 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:34pm

re: #327 Kosh's Shadow

Seems like a lot of wackos are coming out from under their rocks.
And no, I don't think they're related, except that there is a lot of craziness going around.

Just sit back and wait.....Time, NewsWeek, NY Times, etc, will get out the true reason for this madness..........The Second Amendment!

365 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:36pm

re: #271 Dianna

Oh. I'm not going to ask how you know.

I'm now giggling helplessly, and I probably won't be able to stop until after I have some lunch.

Thank you for not asking. I can't rule out that Mr. von Arschloch was not once a Mensan, but he isn't a member now, so perhaps he didn't pay his dues (or his Jews).

366 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:47pm

re: #349 razorbacker

I guess that it may have been overtaken by events, but I find it ironic that white supremacists people are so dead-set against 'people of color'.

I was taught that 'white' is the presence of all colors in the spectrum.

It's not really an irony. Your case only applies to light. In something that is supposed to filter light, like an epidermis, black (or, anyway, dark "neutral" brown) is the presence of all colours.

367 SFGoth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:33:59pm

re: #35 flyovercountry

As a person of the Jewish faith, I can only say that I wish we controlled everything we are credited for controlling. Somewhere I hear Tevia singing, "if I were a rich man." What in the world could possible be feeding these delusions? Where can I find that drug? [ ]

I hear if you drink enough unfiltered Manischewitz....

368 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:34:13pm
369 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:34:33pm

re: #306 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Can we get Pat Buchanan to comment on that?


Are you saying you disagree? That's sad, if so, but I haven't seen it.

370 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:34:35pm

re: #333 jones

Has anyone here, tried, or knows someone who tried a citizen's arrest?

And two follow ups:

Are you or they, insane?

Did it work?

This guy recently attempted to make a citizen's arrest of George W. Bush. You tell me, does he look sane to you?

371 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:34:42pm
372 quickjustice  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:34:42pm

Citizens arrest works if the crime is a felony, and there's no other law enforcement reasonably available. Big caveat: if you're mistaken about the crime, you yourself can be arrested and sued for wrongfully imprisoning the perp. You'd better be right.

373 2by2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:35:10pm

re: #347 buzzsawmonkey

transliterated it should look more like this:
Tov sh'ba goym ha rog
no shebbe, shebbe

374 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:35:39pm

re: #351 Charles

As Rodney King famously said - "Why can't we all just get along?" Most of us can. I wish we all could, but unfortunately there will always be people like this man.

And Charles, Shep agrees - He just said "They warned us for a reason."

375 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:35:46pm

re: #351 Charles

And it never should have been leaked to the public.

376 2by2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:35:46pm

re: #343 amir

You can find an explanation in comment #245

ok, thanks

377 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:36:06pm

re: #370 Kenneth

This guy recently attempted to make a citizen's arrest of George W. Bush. You tell me, does he look sane to you?

Man, Ward Churchill has sure let himself go to pot.

/

378 calcajun  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:36:22pm

Just jumping in on a lunch break so sorry if this has been discussed up-thread, but this sounds like some kind of suicide-by-cop attempt. An 88 year-old with a gun? Sounds more like dementia.

379 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:36:27pm

re: #355 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Me and a buddy stopped a drunk guy from driving off from a traffic accident, does that count?


Yep. I am assume you are sane. I just wondered if it were a practice reserved for loons.

380 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:36:40pm

re: #370 Kenneth

This guy recently attempted to make a citizen's arrest of George W. Bush. You tell me, does he look sane to you?


It looks like an aged rock star.

381 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:36:44pm

re: #368 Iron Fist

Jewish doctors may be good, but what this guy has kills everyone who gets it, uniformly and without exception. It could be a matter of months, or it could be another ten years, but this guy is going to die from what he has. Guaranteed.

Old age?

382 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:36:56pm

See y'all later.

The techs are gone, so I should get busy doing productive things.

383 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:37:34pm

Totally evil site link:

[Link: www.radioislam.org...]

This is the origin of many of the smears that circulate in the crazy-sphere about the Talmud.

I have hated it for years.

384 Shiplord kirel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:37:41pm

re: #316 Eowyn2

Are you really seeing a connection between these two?
Do you also see a connection between the Tiller murder and the Long Murder?

The only connection I see is three psychos.

Connection is a weasel word in this context and you are using it yourself. No, I do not believe they belong to the same secret cell of violent wingnuts or that Randall Terry is in cahoots with neo-nazis and black Islamist converts. The commercial conspiracy culture is, in fact, a common factor in all of them, though the Little Rock shooter belongs to a different sub-strain. Even there, though, there is a lot of overlap. A nutcase like vonBrunn would find a lot of common ground with Farrakhan or Jeremiah Wright, and Scott Roeder was in fact associated with groups that have many similar views.

385 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:37:48pm

re: #370 Kenneth

This guy recently attempted to make a citizen's arrest of George W. Bush. You tell me, does he look sane to you?


Bearing in mind I am not a doctor-no.

386 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:37:57pm

re: #381 Occasional Reader

Old age?

Hypoxia.

387 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:38:00pm

re: #279 opnion

I think that you & I are saying the same thing. Any data that I have seen shows returning veterans less prone to violence that their peer group in general.
If there is data that shows vets more likely to join extremist groups, I have not seen it.

They based that on an FBI report that found:

(U) Presence and Activity of Those with Military Experience in the Extremist Movement
(U//FOUO) A review of FBI white supremacist extremist cases from October 2001 to May 2008 identified 203 individuals with confirmed or claimed military service active in the extremist movement at some time during the reporting period.

2 This number is minuscule in comparison with the projected US veteran population of 23,816,000 as of 2 May 2008, or the 1,416,037
active duty military personnel as of 30 April 2008. It is also a small percentage of an estimated US white supremacist extremist population, which, based on FBI investigations, currently numbers in the low thousands.iv


[Link: wikileaks.org...]

203 out of 24 million is statistically insignificant.

388 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:38:06pm

re: #369 nikis-knight

Are you saying you disagree? That's sad, if so, but I haven't seen it.

I'm saying I believe the "They killed Christ" anti-semitism is still alive and well, its just the other forms have a wider level of support and lee way since they are couching the arguements along economic and political lines instead of religious lines.

389 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:38:28pm

re: #242 Occasional Reader

Mudville... obsession with "mud people"... makes sense.

/

I hung out with some Mud People at Woodstock 94. Good times man.

390 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:38:30pm

re: #336 J.D.

I can't wait to hear what else he's done, other than on the computer.
It's hard to believe this could be the first thing... at his age...

Arrested in 1981, it's right there on the front page of his website.

391 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:38:49pm

re: #351 Charles

With the Tiller shooting and now this, I'm sorry folks -- but that DHS report has been vindicated.

The report was a heads-up to law enforcement, warning of a risk of increased attacks from right wing extremists, and with two attacks in two weeks it looks like the heads-up was well warranted.

But it is now out of date. From page 2:

— (U//LES) Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first
African American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new
members, mobilize existing supporters, and broaden their scope and appeal
through propaganda, but they have not yet turned to attack planning.
392 midwestgak  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:39:01pm

re: #334 jorline

{gak}

Business is very good, thank you, but the question is will we survive. Banks are not lending and I need more than one restaurant to support the family. It sucks being under capitalized.

How are you?

{jorline} I'm beginning to understand why Russians drank so much vodka. When the rules change at the whim of the leadership, no one can rely or invest on mish mosh. No one wants to work because it does not guarantee ownership, tax levels, etc.

I have NO idea what I will be required to pay come April 15th. 2010 may not be soooo bad, but that's just because the Bush tax cuts won't have been expunged. Come 2011?

I'm looking long term. This administration is reducing future "hope" daily.

You asked. I said.

Vented. Nothiing againts you {jorline}.

393 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:39:10pm

re: #363 Thanos

Well I got that wrong, that's the "Jesus is Saviour" site, and their "Illuminati Exposed" page...

394 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:39:25pm

re: #342 zombie

From that same link:

"The West viewed the JEW as an alien living within its midst. JEWS had no State of their own, no territory. Whatever the landscape they spoke the common language. Publicly they denied a racial identity assuming the outer garments, no matter how preposterous, of whatever nation in which they appeared. Adoption of Christian names, conversions, "nose jobs", and platform shoes were part of the camouflage."

Platform shoes, who knew?

[Link: www.gnosticliberationfront.com...]

395 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:39:25pm

re: #351 Charles

As with school shootings by students, we can expect copycat crimes from these right wing, wacko scumbags shooting up what they feel is wrong with the country for the time being. Perceived soft targets are going to get the lions share from these assholes.

396 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:39:31pm

So the shooter is an 89 year old white supremacist. Has anyone checked on Robert Byrd today?

397 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:40:34pm

[Link: www.wikihow.com...]

Ok, do you think he followed these steps while arresting the Fed?

(Or Rove, or bush et. al.)

398 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:40:47pm
399 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:40:55pm

re: #333 jones

Has anyone here, tried, or knows someone who tried a citizen's arrest?

And two follow ups:

Are you or they, insane?

Did it work?

Yep. But the guy was caught during the commission of a crime and held until the police arrived.

400 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:41:07pm

re: #388 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm saying I believe the "They killed Christ" anti-semitism is still alive and well, its just the other forms have a wider level of support and lee way since they are couching the arguements along economic and political lines instead of religious lines.


Well, my point was just that I'm glad Christianity has improved on this front over the years, especially in America, though it sucks that other wackos are catching that virus.

401 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:41:09pm

re: #387 Wendya

[Link: wikileaks.org...]

203 out of 24 million is statistically insignificant.

You flat nailed it. Based on that no conclusion can be drawn or reasonable inference made that vets are prone to join extremist groups.

402 medaura18586  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:41:53pm

re: #221 Charles

At the 'Ron Paul for President' Yahoo group:

HITLER'S WORST MISTAKE: HE DIDN'T GAS THE JEWS.

Striking quote:

Today, on the World stage, White men are LAUGHED AT, their women taken, raped, and bred by stronger men.

The jungle mentality is jaw-dropping.

403 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:41:58pm

re: #351 Charles

Noting the obvious is not a cogent observation.

404 Shiplord kirel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:08pm

re: #396 Mad Al-Jaffee

So the shooter is an 89 year old white supremacist. Has anyone checked on Robert Byrd today?

That's cruel and mean-spirited. May I steal it?

405 gegenkritik  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:12pm

re: #370 Kenneth

This guy recently attempted to make a citizen's arrest of George W. Bush. You tell me, does he look sane to you?


He looks really reputable, I would trust him!
/

406 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:13pm

Alleged Khazar ancestry of Ashkenazim


The theory that all or most Ashkenazi ("European") Jews might be descended from Khazars (rather than Semitic groups in the Middle East) dates back to the racialism of late nineteenth century Europe, and was frequently cited to assert that most modern Jews aren't descended from Israelites and/or to refute Israeli claims to Palestine. It was first publicly proposed in lecture given by Ernest Renan on January 27, 1883, titled "Judaism as a Race and as Religion."[32] It was repeated in articles in The Dearborn Independent in 1923 and 1925, and popularized by racial theorist Lothrop Stoddard in a 1926 article in the Forum titled "The Pedigree of Judah", where he argued that Ashkenazi Jews were a mix of people, of which the Khazars were a primary element.[16][33] Stoddard's views were "based on nineteenth and twentieth-century concepts of race, in which small variations on facial features as well as presumed accompanying character traits were deemed to pass from generation to generation, subject only to the corrupting effects of marriage with members of other groups, the result of which would lower the superior stock without raising the inferior partners."[34] This theory was adopted by British Israelites, who saw it as a means of invalidating the claims of Jews (rather than themselves) to be the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, and was supported by early anti-Zionists.[16][35]

In 1951 Southern Methodist University professor John O. Beaty published The Iron Curtain over America, a work which claimed that "Khazar Jews" were "responsible for all of America's — and the world's — ills beginning with World War I". The book repeated a number of familiar antisemitic claims, placing responsibility for U.S. involvement in World Wars I and II and the Bolshevik revolution on these Khazars, and insisting that Khazar Jews were attempting to subvert Western Christianity and establish communism throughout the world. The American millionaire J. Russell Maguire gave money towards its promotion, and it was met with enthusiasm by hate groups and the extreme right.[36][37] By the 1960s the Khazar theory had become a "firm article of faith" amongst Christian Identity groups.[16][38] In 1971 John Bagot Glubb (Glubb Pasha) also took up this theme, insisting that Palestinians were more closely related to the ancient Judeans than were Jews.

407 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:14pm
408 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:24pm

re: #390 Dianna

Arrested in 1981, it's right there on the front page of his website.

I do not see this...

409 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:44pm

re: #351 Charles

With the Tiller shooting and now this, I'm sorry folks -- but that DHS report has been vindicated.

The report was a heads-up to law enforcement, warning of a risk of increased attacks from right wing extremists, and with two attacks in two weeks it looks like the heads-up was well warranted.


I hate to put it this way, but the Tiller shooting was in the works for years. He was a highly controversial figure, and there had been prior assassination attempts on him. In fact, he was actually shot before in 1993, predating the DHS report by 15 years.

Again, nobody is denying that violent right-wing extremists exist. They've always been around; they haven't disappeared.

That still doesn't "wash" the DHS report, which was sloppy, poorly documented, and not up to the standard of other such reports issued by the same agency.

410 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:45pm

re: #399 Wendya

Yep. But the guy was caught during the commission of a crime and held until the police arrived.


That caught red handed seems to be ignored by a lot of these nuts. Did he peek in a window and spot the Fed Board committing... whatever they would commit.

411 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:42:46pm

what are the odds that a Jewish doctor is involved in currently trying to save the life of this scumbag?

412 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:43:03pm

re: #404 Shiplord kirel

Be my guest!

413 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:43:16pm

re: #396 Mad Al-Jaffee

So the shooter is an 89 year old white supremacist. Has anyone checked on Robert Byrd today?

Now that's funny.
Bad, but funny.

414 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #399 Wendya

Is that your bully in your avatar?

(that's one of mine in my avatar)

415 Solomon2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:43:37pm

"what are the odds that a Jewish doctor is involved in currently trying to save the life of this scumbag?"

About 70%

416 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:43:48pm

re: #398 Iron Fist

I've never been up in arms about the issue, but try to keep some perspective. To say that this vindicates the DHS memo is just plain wrong.

I disagree, but then I never thought there was anything wrong with the report in the first place. In addition to this incident, we have the cop killer in Pittsburgh, a white nationalist with components for a dirty bomb, a plot by skinheads to assassinate Obama, and more. The DHS report was on target.

417 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:44:12pm

re: #401 opnion

You flat nailed it. Based on that no conclusion can be drawn or reasonable inference made that vets are prone to join extremist groups.

There are also a lot of wanna-be's who gravitate towards the white supremacist or other extremist movements. They like to pretend they had this glorious military career instead of admitting they washed out or were discharged.

418 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:44:33pm

re: #371 buzzsawmonkey

Khazar is derived from Turkic "qaz", meaning "to wander, flee." They were nomads from the Asian steppe.

419 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:44:57pm

re: #351 Charles

With the Tiller shooting and now this, I'm sorry folks -- but that DHS report has been vindicated.

The report was a heads-up to law enforcement, warning of a risk of increased attacks from right wing extremists, and with two attacks in two weeks it looks like the heads-up was well warranted.

I am sorry I do not agree. I think the report was poorly written and should never have been made public in the first place. If the report had made the point that electing Obama President ( and this in no way means to blame Obama for any of this ) may result in the release of radical thoughts and actions on both the left and maybe even more so the right then that's one thing. You can no more use this lunatic to smear the "right" what ever that is, than you can to smear the "left" for the shooting of the 2 soldiers in Arkansas ( which it seems you failed to mention).

420 Kragar  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:45:10pm

re: #417 Wendya

There are also a lot of wanna-be's who gravitate towards the white supremacist or other extremist movements. They like to pretend they had this glorious military career instead of admitting they washed out or were discharged.

Well, they would have been successful if those damn Jews didn't sabotage their careers.

/

421 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:45:14pm

Funny how many people here assumed it had to be another Muslim on the earlier thread.

That DHS report didn't have much of an impact in some quarters, I guess.

422 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:45:30pm

re: #378 calcajun

Just jumping in on a lunch break so sorry if this has been discussed up-thread, but this sounds like some kind of suicide-by-cop attempt. An 88 year-old with a gun? Sounds more like dementia.


That's what I think too.

Dementia, depression or both were probably contributing factors.

423 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:45:48pm

re: #414 eschew_obfuscation

Is that your bully in your avatar?

(that's one of mine in my avatar)

Yeah, that's Sam. He turns 10 in July and other than the fact that he tends to whine more now that he's gotten old, he's in excellent health.

424 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:45:52pm

re: #416 Charles

The plot by skinheads to assassinate Obama? Wasn't that the two idiots with the list of 88 killings FOLLOWED by assassinating Obama?

There have been better-conceived plots by three-year-olds to liberate the contents of cookie jars.

425 NY Nana  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:45:53pm

re: #309 Zimriel

That's mostly up to G-d, and "long sentence" might well be an understatement.

You are right....

426 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:45:58pm

OT - UN Wants a global ban on plastic bags.

[Link: www.kansascity.com...]

427 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:46:01pm

re: #392 midwestgak

I didn't take it personally...no worries there. Venting is good and I understand your frustrations.

428 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:46:10pm

Modern DNA studies

on the Y chromosome of Jews worldwide have largely disproven the Khazar origin theory for the vast majority of Jews, including the Ashkenazi.

A 1999 study by Hammer et al., published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."[46] According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism."[47]

429 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:46:26pm

re: #419 Nevergiveup

You can no more use this lunatic to smear the "right" what ever that is, than you can to smear the "left" for the shooting of the 2 soldiers in Arkansas ( which it seems you failed to mention).

It's puzzling to me why so many people read the words "right wing extremist" and see "right wing."

430 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:47:05pm

re: #426 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - UN Wants a global ban on plastic bags.

[Link: www.kansascity.com...]

Aren't there people dying while they're concerned with this?

431 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:47:22pm

re: #429 Charles

It's puzzling to me why so many people read the words "right wing extremist" and see "right wing."

The MSM's plan is working.

432 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:47:23pm

re: #417 Wendya

There are also a lot of wanna-be's who gravitate towards the white supremacist or other extremist movements. They like to pretend they had this glorious military career instead of admitting they washed out or were discharged.

One weird case is that of Harvey Milk. He served honourably in the Navy during the 1950s. During the 1970s, he lied about that, saying that the Navy kicked him out for being gay.

433 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:47:51pm

re: #429 Charles

It's puzzling to me why so many people read the words "right wing extremist" and see "right wing."

Maybe you don't but many do- and many in the MSM do.

434 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:48:07pm

re: #431 OldLineTexan

The MSM's plan is working.

I'm talking about the people in this thread, who insist that the DHS report was a smear on them.

435 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #429 Charles

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that when it's a right wing extremist, the media smears the entire right wing of the political sphere, but if it's a leftist, it's a lone and isolated incident.

436 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #418 Kenneth

Khazar is derived from Turkic "qaz", meaning "to wander, flee." They were nomads from the Asian steppe.

'Cause I'm a Khazar
yeah, I'm a Khazar
I qaz around, around, around, around, around...

/ancient Turkic folk song

437 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:48:18pm

re: #421 Cato the Elder

Funny how many people here assumed it had to be another Muslim on the earlier thread.

That DHS report didn't have much of an impact in some quarters, I guess.

It could have gone either way. I would have guessed 60% to 40% in favor of a neoNazi.

438 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:48:26pm

re: #421 Cato the Elder

Funny how many people here assumed it had to be another Muslim on the earlier thread.

That DHS report didn't have much of an impact in some quarters, I guess.


What are you saying? Because of a DHS report, we should discount the widespread arab/muslim anti-semitism? I wouldn't have put out an apb, but I don't see why jihad was a bad suspicion, though of course no one thought it was the only possibility.

439 KingKenrod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:48:37pm

re: #398 Iron Fist

I'm sorry, but no, not really. We had an attack by one black muslim in there. Should DHS have issued a warning about black muslims? We have another black Muslim, John Mohammed, who killed more people than all the abortion terrorists combined. I'm sure that a little digging (very little) would turn up other acts of violence and/or domestic terrorism by black Muslims, going back to at least the '60's.

It would seem that being a black Muslim is an indicator as to whether someone might possibly be a terrorist.

I've never been up in arms about the issue, but try to keep some perspective. To say that this vindicates the DHS memo is just plain wrong.

The Black Muslim Bakery killing of a journalist in Oakland comes to mind.

The DHS memo covered such a wide breadth of activity, it couldn't possibly be wrong. The problem was its generality, not its accuracy.

Anyone can hit a target if the target is big enough.

440 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:49:07pm

re: #426 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - UN Wants a global ban on plastic bags.

[Link: www.kansascity.com...]

Being the cynic that I am, I'd be willing to believe they have a reusable canvas bag business on the side.

/wouldn't be surprised.

441 capitalist piglet  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:49:29pm

Medved is talking to a Stormfronter right now.

442 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:49:38pm

re: #433 Nevergiveup

Maybe you don't but many do- and many in the MSM do.


Very true. I was trying to figure out how to say that...

443 midwestgak  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:50:08pm

re: #334 jorline

{gak}

Business is very good, thank you, but the question is will we survive. Banks are not lending and I need more than one restaurant to support the family. It sucks being under capitalized.

Do you have more than one restaurant now and are you looking to expand?

444 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:50:14pm

re: #416 Charles

It's worth reminding people that the DHS has been investigating right wing extremists, left wing extremists, Islamic extremists and any other kind of violent extremist groups out there. These threats are real and I am glad the DHS is taking them seriously.

445 brookly red  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:50:18pm

re: #431 OldLineTexan

The MSM's plan is working.

basically, but one tweak. the plan is to have people read right wing & assume extremist.

446 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:50:19pm

re: #435 lawhawk

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that when it's a right wing extremist, the media smears the entire right wing of the political sphere, but if it's a leftist, it's a lone and isolated incident.


And if the MSM had paid even 1/4 of the attention to the shooting of the 2 Soldiers in Arkansas ?

447 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:50:39pm

SPLC report just in:

Holocaust Museum Shooter Had Close Ties to Prominent neo-Nazis
Posted in Anti-Semitic by Heidi Beirich on June 10, 2009

Law enforcement officials have identified the suspect in the Holocaust Museum shootings as James Wenneker von Brunn, born in 1920, from the Eastern Shore of Maryland. D.C. Police Spokeswoman Traci Hughes reportedly said the suspect walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. ET with a rifle and shot a guard.

Von Brunn runs the website holywesternempire.org, which was listed in 2008 as a hate site by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Von Brunn has a long history of associations with prominent neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers. In the 1980s or early 1990s, von Brunn was employed by Noontide Press, a part of the Holocaust denying Institute of Historical Review, which was then run by Willis Carto, one of America’s most prominent anti-Semites....

[continues]

448 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:50:56pm

re: #436 Occasional Reader

Never irk the Turk!

449 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:51:17pm

From Von Brunn's Bio

James W. von Brunn holds a BachSci Journalism degree from a mid-Western university where he was president of SAE and played varsity football.

During WWII he served as PT-Boat captain, Lt. USNR, receiving a Commendation and four battle stars. For twenty years he was an advertising executive and film-producer in New York City. He is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ society.

In 1981 Von Brunn attempted to place the treasonous Federal Reserve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizens arrest. He was tried in a Washington, D.C. Superior Court; convicted by a Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge. A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals denied his appeal. He served 6.5 years in federal prison.

Mensa, the high-IQ society...where he served as a water boy.

450 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:51:22pm

re: #416 Charles

My beef with the initial DHS report was that it was entirely too vague and seemed to lump veterans or anyone opposed to abortion, gun-control, unchecked illegal immigration or any of 0bama's policies as Right Wing extermists. Making that observation isn't the same as saying there's no such thing as right wing extremism.

/Random thought, but would any of the guards have been able to return fire if the Supreme court ruled differently on Heller vs Washington D.C.? Not sure what the District's rules and regulations are regarding firearms for Security gaurds versus sworn police officers.

451 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:51:38pm

I think LGF has been labelled as right-wing in some quarters.

452 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:51:57pm

re: #434 Charles

I'm talking about the people in this thread, who insist that the DHS report was a smear on them.

We're not even 6 months into Obama's term. There is going to be plenty of evidence over the next few years. At this point people who are still objecting to the DHS memo are actively obfuscating for terrorists.

453 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:52:31pm

Just as an aside the one time Myself and my whole family went to the Holocaust Museum in DC, my youngest daughter found a German Coin on the ground? She still has it.

454 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:52:44pm

re: #450 Fenway_Nation

I work in DC and all of the security guards in my building carry a gun.

455 Desert Dog  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:52:49pm

re: #398 Iron Fist

I'm sorry, but no, not really. We had an attack by one black muslim in there. Should DHS have issued a warning about black muslims? We have another black Muslim, John Mohammed, who killed more people than all the abortion terrorists combined. I'm sure that a little digging (very little) would turn up other acts of violence and/or domestic terrorism by black Muslims, going back to at least the '60's.

It would seem that being a black Muslim is an indicator as to whether someone might possibly be a terrorist.

I've never been up in arms about the issue, but try to keep some perspective. To say that this vindicates the DHS memo is just plain wrong.

This disgusting event is bad enough, trying to make political points off of this attack is pathetic. There were some valid points in that DHS report, but they were vague and highly generalized. And, it was released at a politically opportune time. If that was a coincidence, I would be highly surprised.

456 jill e  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:53:16pm

re: #416 Charles

I disagree, but then I never thought there was anything wrong with the report in the first place. In addition to this incident, we have the cop killer in Pittsburgh, a white nationalist with components for a dirty bomb, a plot by skinheads to assassinate Obama, and more. The DHS report was on target.

And how soon we forget good old Timothy McVeigh?

457 S'latch  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:53:16pm

I wonder if James W. von Brunn was a relative of Werner von Braun.

458 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:53:52pm

re: #416 Charles

I disagree, but then I never thought there was anything wrong with the report in the first place. In addition to this incident, we have the cop killer in Pittsburgh, a white nationalist with components for a dirty bomb, a plot by skinheads to assassinate Obama, and more. The DHS report was on target.


Are these incidents occuring more frequently than "background"? Or are they just getting more press?

Presidential threats happen every single day, they just usually don't make the news. In this case, the "skinhead" plot was pretty thin gruel (ie the plan itself was laughable), but it was newsworthy because of context (ie stupid young skinheads and new Black president).

As you know, there are lots of non-right wing extremist attacks that occur all the time as well.

Again, the problem with the report was that it was poorly written. A better report could have made the exact same points correctly describing extremist threats, but without offending "right wingers", etc.

459 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:54:08pm

re: #450 Fenway_Nation

Making a list of all possible violent extremist groups does not mean all groups are considered of equal threat. If the DHS left any group out, they would not be thorough and would not be doing their job.

460 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:54:26pm

re: #450 Fenway_Nation

Dick Heller (PBUH) was a secuirty guard. He was allowed a gun at work, but not at home.

He fixed that. Well, the ball is rolling anyway.

461 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:54:30pm

re: #417 Wendya

There are also a lot of wanna-be's who gravitate towards the white supremacist or other extremist movements. They like to pretend they had this glorious military career instead of admitting they washed out or were discharged.

It is reminicent of John IKerry's Winter Soldier project.
Many members lied about their Viet Nam service including the co-founder of tghe organization. Many more were never even in the military.
I just do not believe that vets pose any danger, more than their peer group & I would say much less.

462 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:54:47pm
463 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:54:53pm

re: #450 Fenway_Nation

By the way, as much as this hurts me, congrats on the Red Sox's victory last night. It sure seems you have the Yanks number. And if Big Poppy takes off from here, remember, you have Burnett and the Yankees to thank. OK now I am gonna go get drunk.

464 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:03pm

re: #434 Charles

I'm talking about the people in this thread, who insist that the DHS report was a smear on them.

I insist on no such thing, and I continue to think the DHS report was useless, vague, poorly written, and not in the least bit helpful.

For instance, in what way did it help spot this man - or Roeder! - before they acted? Not at all.

Of course, crazed postings, websites, criminal actions and actual convictions didn't seem to help, either.

465 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:12pm

re: #434 Charles

I'm talking about the people in this thread, who insist that the DHS report was a smear on them.

They are part of the intended audience.

466 Ben Hur  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:12pm

TURK 182

467 callahan23  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:17pm

re: #441 capitalist piglet

Medved is talking to a Stormfronter right now.

Oh you mean he has been talking today with Frank-Walter Steinmeier the Foreign Minister of Germany about nuclear disarmament?
/ ;-)

468 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:19pm

ONe of the things that always gets to me about the entire Khazar thing, is that people who want to bring it up, are trying to make some sort of argument that Jews are not "pure Jews" that our "race has been diluted" then these same people go on to call us racist.

The reality of the Khazars is that they were a tribe from the steppes of Russia that lived near the Black Sea. Their leadership - and army did indeed convert to Judaism.

Shortly after they converted, they got to learn that one of the most fun things about being Jewish is rarely being able to live in a nice neighborhood. They actually successfully repelled incursions from Byzantium, the Duchy of Moscow, the Muslims and the Mongols. However, successive invasion after invasion left them weakened and they were finally crushed by the Russians.

The descendants of the Khazars lived in Russia and stayed there until they met up with other Jewish communities who migrated to Russia from the West and the South. The Askenazim were in existence long before the Khazars and the communities merged in Russia when the far more numerous Askenazim took in the remnants of the Khazars.

469 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:29pm

re: #388 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm saying I believe the "They killed Christ" anti-semitism is still alive and well, its just the other forms have a wider level of support and lee way since they are couching the arguements along economic and political lines instead of religious lines.

My automatic reaction to that the first time I read it somewhere as a kid was - don't these people know that Jesus was a Jew, and have they not read the Bible?

From Romans 11:
“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember that it is not you that support the root, but the root than supports you.”

Since then, I've come to realize that logic and actually absorbing what their religion teaches is lacking in such people who say these things.

470 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:32pm

re: #451 J.D.

I think LGF has been labelled as right-wing in some quarters.

And Commie, Islamo-phobic and pro-Islamist Dhimmis. They all love us!

471 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:55:34pm

re: #452 Killgore Trout

At this point people who are still objecting to the DHS memo are actively obfuscating for terrorists.

That's a ridiculous statement, not to mention downright calumny.

472 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:56:09pm

re: #459 Kenneth

Making a list of all possible violent extremist groups does not mean all groups are considered of equal threat. If the DHS left any group out, they would not be thorough and would not be doing their job.


I don't recall; was it a list of actual groups, or a list of causes from which hypothetical groups might draw? Because unless there are names and addresses, it seems to me like it wouldn't be all that useful for law enforcement personel.

473 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:56:14pm

re: #470 Kenneth

And Commie, Islamo-phobic and pro-Islamist Dhimmis. They all love us!

I KNOW !

474 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:56:17pm
475 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:56:18pm

re: #437 Killgore Trout

It could have gone either way. I would have guessed 60% to 40% in favor of a neoNazi.

And, being a sensible person, I waited for evidence.

Biggest surprise: The age of the shooter.

476 KenJen  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:56:18pm

re: #450 Fenway_Nation

A lot of police officers work security for extra money. These guys could be officers.

477 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:56:55pm

re: #458 looking closely

There were several news articles on people after Bush as well, I recall them.

478 Desert Dog  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:57:00pm

re: #464 Dianna

I insist on no such thing, and I continue to think the DHS report was useless, vague, poorly written, and not in the least bit helpful.

For instance, in what way did it help spot this man - or Roeder! - before they acted? Not at all.

Of course, crazed postings, websites, criminal actions and actual convictions didn't seem to help, either.

I think the report was what it was....a general warning. However, I still feel it was used as a political tool to minimize the Tea Parties by the Obama Administration. I do not question the report, I question the timing of the release.

479 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:57:13pm

re: #456 jill e

And how soon we forget good old Timothy McVeigh?

Who here has forgotten Timothy McVeigh? For fuck's sake, Ibrahim Hooper trots out his name every time the ROP carries out an attack here or elsewhere in the world.

480 MJ  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:57:14pm

re: #447 Gus 802

SPLC report just in:

Holocaust Museum Shooter Had Close Ties to Prominent neo-Nazis
Posted in Anti-Semitic by Heidi Beirich on June 10, 2009

The guy spent most of entire adulthood just for this one moment when he thought he could kill a Jew.

481 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:57:17pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

If the pluses and the minuses were separated, you might have a Top Ten and a Bottom Comment all in one!

482 jill e  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:57:22pm

Reports that this man was a WWII veteran...

483 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:57:24pm

re: #466 Ben Hur

TURK 182

Compare and contrast to "Cost" and "Revs".

484 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:57:56pm

Interesting paralell: almost every page extolling the virtues of von Brunn's book also has links to infowars.

Fox put that slimy shit on the air.

485 LGoPs  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:10pm

re: #429 Charles

It's puzzling to me why so many people read the words "right wing extremist" and see "right wing."

I think that is because the media has for years used the term to describe people of a conservative bent. They interchange it with far right, right wing and extreme.
What I think makes that attempt at branding particularly galling is that they never use the same branding for liberals. I think this is what leads to what you are puzzled about.

486 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:13pm

re: #468 LudwigVanQuixote

Modern DNA studies show minimal Khazar influence. The historical record exaggerates the actual biological record.

487 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:14pm

re: #456 jill e

And how soon we forget good old Timothy McVeigh?

Did the US Army teach him how to make a fertilizer bomb?

488 midwestgak  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:16pm

re: #471 Occasional Reader

That's a ridiculous statement, not to mention downright calumny.

Had to look up that word

489 jill e  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:17pm

Security guard has died...

490 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:19pm

re: #471 Occasional Reader

It's very true. People are putting their hurt feelings over national security. I find it equally disgusting when the CAIR does it and it's no better from conservatives.

491 theheat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:22pm

Wow, another religious zealot murderer. That's three religious zealot murderers in a week or so. So far, we have extremist representatives of the Christians, the Klukkers, and the Muslims. (I'm thinking the Amish and Buddhists will be slow to step up to the plate.)

Right now there are all kinds of religious haters banging their cages for their newfound martyrs, drumming up money for their legal defense funds, and glorifying their deeds. Worse, who even knows what kinds of crazy shit they have planned, now their base is energized. These freaks have been feeding on ODS and all their pet causes, and now it's being actualized.

Yeah, at this point I'd say the DHS report was more than a scary bedtime story.

492 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:24pm

Security Guard died. Sorry to hear that.

493 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:27pm

Dammit. The security guard has passed away.

494 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:28pm

re: #480 MJ

The guy spent most of entire adulthood just for this one moment when he thought he could kill a Jew.

Yep. I don't think that dementia or depression are factors at all.

495 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:45pm
Von Brunn is the author of the 1999 book, “Kill the Best Gentiles,” a racist and anti-Semitic tome that argues that whites are seeing “today on the world stage a tragedy of enormous proportions: the calculated destruction of the White Race and the incomparable culture it represents. Europe, former fortress of the West, is now over-run by hordes of non-Whites and mongrels.” A raging anti-Semite, von Brunn blames “The Jews” for the destruction of the West. The book is dedicated to prominent neo-Nazis and racists including Revilo Oliver and Wilmot Robertson.

In 2003, AP reported that von Brunn had painted a portrait of Rear Adm. John Crommelin, a raging anti-Semite who was a close associate of neo-Nazi William Pierce, whose book The Turner Diaries inspired Timothy McVeigh’s bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

496 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:58:54pm

re: #481 wrenchwench

Heh.

497 Perplexed  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:00pm

The guard just died. Prayers for his family.

498 jorline  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:09pm

re: #443 midwestgak

I have the one restaurant. I had a lease signed on another early last fall, but held off when the economy started to tank. We have faired well, but I can't find anyone to lend. I'm told SBA loans are suppose to loosen up soon...yea, right!

499 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:14pm

re: #452 Killgore Trout

No.

500 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:17pm

re: #464 Dianna

I insist on no such thing, and I continue to think the DHS report was useless, vague, poorly written, and not in the least bit helpful.

For instance, in what way did it help spot this man - or Roeder! - before they acted? Not at all.

Of course, crazed postings, websites, criminal actions and actual convictions didn't seem to help, either.

The target audience for the DHS report wasn't bloggers and pundits -- it was cops. People who work in law enforcement. It was a backgrounder, general by design. It was identifying general characteristics and beliefs that can be used to recognize right wing extremists.

It wasn't intended to be a wanted poster, telling cops to expect attacks from specific groups.

501 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:35pm

re: #472 nikis-knight

You could go read the document, as it was on the web. The DHS report on right wing extremists consisted of a list of the groups with a brief description of each.

502 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:36pm

re: #493 Catttt

Dammit. The security guard has passed away.

Baruch dayan emet. Has his name been released?

503 MJ  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:36pm

re: #468 LudwigVanQuixote

ONe of the things that always gets to me about the entire Khazar thing, is that people who want to bring it up, are trying to make some sort of argument that Jews are not "pure Jews" that our "race has been diluted" then these same people go on to call us racist.

The reality of the Khazars is that they were a tribe from the steppes of Russia that lived near the Black Sea. Their leadership - and army did indeed convert to Judaism.

Shortly after they converted, they got to learn that one of the most fun things about being Jewish is rarely being able to live in a nice neighborhood. They actually successfully repelled incursions from Byzantium, the Duchy of Moscow, the Muslims and the Mongols. However, successive invasion after invasion left them weakened and they were finally crushed by the Russians.

The descendants of the Khazars lived in Russia and stayed there until they met up with other Jewish communities who migrated to Russia from the West and the South. The Askenazim were in existence long before the Khazars and the communities merged in Russia when the far more numerous Askenazim took in the remnants of the Khazars.

Blame that moron Arthur Koestler.

504 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:40pm

re: #485 LGoPs

I think that is because the media has for years used the term to describe people of a conservative bent. They interchange it with far right, right wing and extreme.
What I think makes that attempt at branding particularly galling is that they never use the same branding for liberals. I think this is what leads to what you are puzzled about.

It might also be because there was a campaign right after the DHS report of people putting buttons on websites "Proud to be a Right-Wing Extremist".

505 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 12:59:50pm

re: #489 jill e

Security guard has died...


May he rest in Peace.

506 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:00:09pm

re: #497 Perplexed

The guard just died. Prayers for his family.

Crap, you're right. It's coming in over Twitter.

507 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:00:32pm

re: #504 Thanos

It might also be because there was a campaign right after the DHS report of people putting buttons on websites "Proud to be a Right-Wing Extremist".

It was a popular sign at the Tea Parties too.

508 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:00:36pm

re: #500 Charles

The target audience for the DHS report wasn't bloggers and pundits -- it was cops. People who work in law enforcement. It was a backgrounder, general by design. It was identifying general characteristics and beliefs that can be used to recognize right wing extremists.

It wasn't intended to be a wanted poster, telling cops to expect attacks from specific groups.

And similar reports come out like boilerplate every six months to a year.

509 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:00:47pm

re: #486 Kenneth

Modern DNA studies show minimal Khazar influence. The historical record exaggerates the actual biological record.

I am not disagreeing with you at all. The remnants of the Khazars, there really weren't that many after all of the wars in the dark and middle ages, were a small isolated group that was absorbed by the vastly larger Eastern and Northern Ashkenazic migration.

510 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:01:28pm
511 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:01:30pm

re: #451 J.D.

I think LGF has been labelled as right-wing in some quarters.

J.D.! Long time no see.

512 califleftyb  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:01:37pm

Not unexpectedly the first thing you hear out of law enforcement and parroted by the press is "This was an isolated incident". I call BS on that! You can find a direct link from this shooting to the anti-Semitic/anti-Zionist/anti-Jewish hate speech, from both the extreme left and right, that has chipped away at what passes for acceptable dialog. Dare criticize it and they throw the "Livingstone Formulation" at you.

In the same way the anti-abortion "lifers" now cry crocodile tears, shocked that someone would actually take the meaning of their words to heart, we now will hear a chorus from the Move.on/Kos/RonPaulian ilk that they only engage in political discussion and don't condone violence against anyone. Well they pulled the trigger today as much as that old Nazi.

513 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:02:16pm

re: #475 Dianna

And, being a sensible person, I waited for evidence.

Biggest surprise: The age of the shooter.

That is a bit of a surprise, especially given that the man was a WWII vet.

514 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:02:26pm

re: #489 jill e

Security guard has died...

That is awful.

I'm thinking "righteous among the nations", right now.

515 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:02:48pm

re: #512 califleftyb

Not unexpectedly the first thing you hear out of law enforcement and parroted by the press is "This was an isolated incident". I call BS on that! You can find a direct link from this shooting to the anti-Semitic/anti-Zionist/anti-Jewish hate speech, from both the extreme left and right, that has chipped away at what passes for acceptable dialog. Dare criticize it and they throw the "Livingstone Formulation" at you.

In the same way the anti-abortion "lifers" now cry crocodile tears, shocked that someone would actually take the meaning of their words to heart, we now will hear a chorus from the Move.on/Kos/RonPaulian ilk that they only engage in political discussion and don't condone violence against anyone. Well they pulled the trigger today as much as that old Nazi.

Right, this guy's antiwar and a troofer too.

516 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:02:49pm

re: #512 califleftyb

Not unexpectedly the first thing you hear out of law enforcement and parroted by the press is "This was an isolated incident". I call BS on that! You can find a direct link from this shooting to the anti-Semitic/anti-Zionist/anti-Jewish hate speech, from both the extreme left and right, that has chipped away at what passes for acceptable dialog. Dare criticize it and they throw the "Livingstone Formulation" at you.

In the same way the anti-abortion "lifers" now cry crocodile tears, shocked that someone would actually take the meaning of their words to heart, we now will hear a chorus from the Move.on/Kos/RonPaulian ilk that they only engage in political discussion and don't condone violence against anyone. Well they pulled the trigger today as much as that old Nazi.

Brilliantly said.

517 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:02:56pm

re: #513 Honorary Yooper

That is a bit of a surprise, especially given that the man was a WWII vet.

Are we sure that he was, or was that a fantasy part of his bio?

518 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:03:08pm
With the Tiller shooting and now this — the DHS report that caused such an uproar has been vindicated.

Was this guy a recent (Iraq/Afghan) veteran? His site bio indicates he served in WWII so I really doubt it.
I don't think the Tiller killer was a vet.
IIRC wasn't the main rap against the DHS report that it included recent vets?

519 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:03:08pm

re: #489 jill e

Security guard has died...

OMG Rest In Peace.

520 Desert Dog  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:03:17pm

re: #508 Thanos

And similar reports come out like boilerplate every six months to a year.

Yes, they come out with much fanfare the day before a major protest against the President all the time.
/

521 jimmyk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:03:21pm

re: #351 Charles

With the Tiller shooting and now this, I'm sorry folks -- but that DHS report has been vindicated.

The report was a heads-up to law enforcement, warning of a risk of increased attacks from right wing extremists, and with two attacks in two weeks it looks like the heads-up was well warranted.

There was plenty of ridiculous criticism of that report, but some of it was valid and not undermined by any of these events.

1. The report suggested organized groups that would be planning attacks. These are lone nutcases, of which we have always had plenty, on the right and the left.

2. The report singled out right-wing extremists as opposed to Muslim, left-wing, etc. In addition to the Arkansas shooting, we've also had the planned bombing of the synagogues in Riverdale.

3. Whether this 88-year-old nut was a "veteran" or not, I don't think he was the profile of the veteran the report had in mind. That's certainly not how most people read it.

522 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:03:29pm

re: #503 MJ

The Khazar conspiracy theory predated Koestler.


The theory that all or most Ashkenazi ("European") Jews might be descended from Khazars (rather than Semitic groups in the Middle East) dates back to the racialism of late nineteenth century Europe, and was frequently cited to assert that most modern Jews aren't descended from Israelites and/or to refute Israeli claims to Palestine. It was first publicly proposed in lecture given by Ernest Renan on January 27, 1883, titled "Judaism as a Race and as Religion."[32]

The theory gained further support when the novelist Arthur Koestler devoted his popular book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the topic. Koestler's historiography has been attacked as highly questionable by many historians;[citation needed] it has also been pointed out that his discussion of theories about Ashkenazi descent is entirely lacking scientific or historiographical support; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources.[40] Commentors have also noted that Koestler mischaracterized the sources he cited, particularly D.M. Dunlop's History of the Jewish Khazars (1954).[41] Dunlop himself stated that the theory that Eastern European Jews were the descendants of the Khazars, "... can be dealt with very shortly, because there is little evidence which bears directly upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere assumption."[42]

Koestler himself was pro-Zionist based on secular considerations, and did not see alleged Khazar ancestry as diminishing the claim of Jews to Israel, which he felt was based on the United Nations mandate, and not on Biblical covenants or genetic inheritance. In his view, "The problem of the Khazar infusion a thousand years ago ... is irrelevant to modern Israel". In addition, he was apparently "either unaware of or oblivious to the use anti-Semites had made to the Khazar theory since its introduction at the turn of the century.

523 callahan23  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:03:45pm

re: #485 LGoPs

I think that is because the media has for years used the term to describe people of a conservative bent. They interchange it with far right, right wing and extreme. *
What I think makes that attempt at branding particularly galling is that they never use the same branding for liberals. I think this is what leads to what you are puzzled about.

Here in Germany the term "Rechtspopulist" - right wing populist has become very popular with journalists to brand someone of a more average Joe opinion as being right wing.
Goes to show that the liberal media has a very deep set contempt for the opinion of the average voter.

524 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:04:04pm

re: #503 MJ

Blame that moron Arthur Koestler.

It's interesting how the theory is interpreted and used, though. It reflects a great deal about how the users understand race, ethnicity and religion.

525 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:04:32pm

re: #511 haakondahl

J.D.! Long time no see.

Hi haak!

526 2by2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:04:37pm

re: #503 MJ
Blame that moron Arthur Koestler.

I believe that Koestler just wrote that book in order to "proof" he wasn't that Jewish, ie he needed some other "more noble ancestry" than these black clad Yiddish speaking hordes arriving from "the East" in Hungary, Austria and Germany.

527 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:04:47pm

re: #429 Charles

It's puzzling to me why so many people read the words "right wing extremist" and see "right wing."


Its because the report in question described a number of activities and political beliefs that should NOT be intrinsically objectionable (eg being a veteran, stockpiling guns and/or ammo, having anti-abortion views, etc) in the context of a report on domestic right wing terrorism.

The report COULD have done a better job separating legitimate views from extremist views and thus avoided at least some of the hand-wringing.

It also should have been far better documented and less speculative (like its non-"right wing extremism" counterparts by the DHS).

In short, it was a badly written report, even if its message is valid.


in the belief that they will be taxed or banned,

528 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:04:58pm

re: #493 Catttt

Dammit. The security guard has passed away.

zt''l

529 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:04:59pm

re: #472 nikis-knight

I don't recall; was it a list of actual groups, or a list of causes from which hypothetical groups might draw? Because unless there are names and addresses, it seems to me like it wouldn't be all that useful for law enforcement personel.

No groups were named.

If you want to know who's dangerous, read what the SPLC puts out. That's actually useful.

530 MJ  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:11pm

re: #522 Kenneth

The Khazar conspiracy theory predated Koestler.

Yes, but he popularized it, especially among the antisemitic crowd.

531 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:17pm

re: #517 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Are we sure that he was, or was that a fantasy part of his bio?

More uncommon for a man that age not to be than to be.

532 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:19pm

re: #500 Charles

The target audience for the DHS report wasn't bloggers and pundits -- it was cops. People who work in law enforcement. It was a backgrounder, general by design. It was identifying general characteristics and beliefs that can be used to recognize right wing extremists.

It wasn't intended to be a wanted poster, telling cops to expect attacks from specific groups.


Greyhawk notes that FoxNews concurs with your take on the DHS report.

Having read the public portions of that report, I think that it was so general and nonspecific so as to be of dubious value to anyone in law enforcement concerned about trying to protect against such groups.

533 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:26pm

re: #520 Desert Dog

Yes, they come out with much fanfare the day before a major protest against the President all the time.
/

So are you now backing down from attacking the accuracy of the report to just questioning the timing?

534 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:37pm

re: #508 Thanos

And similar reports come out like boilerplate every six months to a year.

And on other groups too: left wingers, Islamist or various foreign rebel groups like the Tamil Tigers.

535 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:40pm

re: #500 Charles

And for cops, it was worse than useless.

536 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:53pm

Just awful the Security Guard was killed. Bless the family.

537 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:54pm

So sad about the security guard. We'll never know how many lives he saved today.

538 KingKenrod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:05:57pm

re: #512 califleftyb

Not unexpectedly the first thing you hear out of law enforcement and parroted by the press is "This was an isolated incident". I call BS on that! You can find a direct link from this shooting to the anti-Semitic/anti-Zionist/anti-Jewish hate speech, from both the extreme left and right, that has chipped away at what passes for acceptable dialog. Dare criticize it and they throw the "Livingstone Formulation" at you.

In the same way the anti-abortion "lifers" now cry crocodile tears, shocked that someone would actually take the meaning of their words to heart, we now will hear a chorus from the Move.on/Kos/RonPaulian ilk that they only engage in political discussion and don't condone violence against anyone. Well they pulled the trigger today as much as that old Nazi.

The alternative to the "isolated incident" meme is hate-speech laws. If you accept the idea that hate speech is common and often leads to violence, then legislation would not be far behind.

I think the truth is that in a nation of 300 million, the % of those who actively participate in radical groups is small, and those capable of violence much smaller, and those who engage in violence minuscule.

539 StillAMarine  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:06:04pm

I wonder how the MSM is going to handle this. They will not want to publicize anything that might indicate the existence of anti-semitism. I suppose they will state that there was a shooter somewhere in downtown Washington DC and then push to make more firearms illegal.

540 opnion  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:06:10pm

re: #452 Killgore Trout

We're not even 6 months into Obama's term. There is going to be plenty of evidence over the next few years. At this point people who are still objecting to the DHS memo are actively obfuscating for terrorists.

Do you actually mean that any criticism of the report is an attempt to obfuscate for terrorists?

541 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:06:56pm

re: #394 Pvt Bin Jammin

From that same link:

"The West viewed the JEW as an alien living within its midst. JEWS had no State of their own, no territory. Whatever the landscape they spoke the common language. Publicly they denied a racial identity assuming the outer garments, no matter how preposterous, of whatever nation in which they appeared. Adoption of Christian names, conversions, "nose jobs", and platform shoes were part of the camouflage."

Platform shoes, who knew?

[Link: www.gnosticliberationfront.com...]

We at the Zionist Occupation Government wish to inform you that for revealing the secret of platform shoes, you will need to be re-educated. Your check is being cancelled, but please have a bagel and a little tea while you wait for the corrections assistants to help you with your faulty thinking.

Thank you.

Zionist Occupation of Remulak.

//////

542 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:06:57pm

re: #529 Dianna

No groups were named.

If you want to know who's dangerous, read what the SPLC puts out. That's actually useful.

You contradict Kenneth; I guess I'll have to dig through the LGF archives....

543 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:06:59pm

re: #521 jimmyk

The report was focused on the right wing of the political spectrum. It was right there in the title. My beef is that it was overly generalized and nonspecific so as to be useless to law enforcement for profiling purposes (to discern potential threats).

544 J.D.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:07:16pm

bye

545 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:07:26pm

re: #491 theheat

Religious zealot murders? Of the three you mention, only two qualify. This one does not. This kind of antisemitism crosses religious lines and even afflicts the non-religious as well. It is bigotry, pure and simple, not necessarily a "religious zealot".

546 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:07:28pm

re: #484 Thanos

What's "infowars"?

547 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:07:34pm

re: #521 jimmyk

There was plenty of ridiculous criticism of that report, but some of it was valid and not undermined by any of these events.

1. The report suggested organized groups that would be planning attacks. These are lone nutcases, of which we have always had plenty, on the right and the left.

2. The report singled out right-wing extremists as opposed to Muslim, left-wing, etc. In addition to the Arkansas shooting, we've also had the planned bombing of the synagogues in Riverdale.

3. Whether this 88-year-old nut was a "veteran" or not, I don't think he was the profile of the veteran the report had in mind. That's certainly not how most people read it.

There are other similar DHS reports on left-wing extremists and Islamic extremists. They covered them all.

548 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:08:17pm

re: #546 Dianna

What's "infowars"?

Alex Jones site

549 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:08:19pm

re: #542 nikis-knight

You contradict Kenneth; I guess I'll have to dig through the LGF archives....

It is too general to be useful - unlike the left-wing extremist report.

Fox news had both in pdf. format.

550 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:08:22pm

Sources: Guard Dies After Museum Shootout; Gunman Hospitalized

WASHINGTON - A man with a gun walked into the U.S. Holocaust Museum on Wednesday and opened fire on a security guard, D.C. police and U.S. Park Police said.

The targeted security guard and two others fired back, wounding the gunman. One security guard was also wounded; he was taken to George Washington University Hospital, where he died from his injuries, high level D.C. police sources told ABC 7's Jennifer Donelan. Sources say the gunman remains in critical condition at George Washington University Hospital.

ABC 7 News reporter Kris Van Cleave witnessed a wounded man who was handcuffed to his gurney being brought into George Washington University Hospital...

551 midwestgak  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:08:29pm

re: #498 jorline

I have the one restaurant. I had a lease signed on another early last fall, but held off when the economy started to tank. We have faired well, but I can't find anyone to lend. I'm told SBA loans are suppose to loosen up soon...yea, right!

yea right! for sure.

My opinion only (not to be associated with you). Since the election, even the comments/character/optimism has changed here at LGF. Like it or not, this administration's actions/ignorance has been and is changing the American landscape/comments/character/optimism.

"For the first time I am proud of my country" was a hint which no one wanted to take as a sign of things to come. A comment from the first lady was bad enough. Any comments from the POTUS of our future come to mind?

552 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:08:56pm

Just wonderful. Brunn had a notebook with more than 100 "targets". Police are investigating.

553 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:09:04pm

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself............

554 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:09:11pm

re: #521 jimmyk

2. The report singled out right-wing extremists as opposed to Muslim, left-wing, etc.

Because the report was ABOUT right-wing extremists. Other reports have been issued about left-wing and Islamist extremists; Charles linked to them, IIRC.

For the record; I think DHS and other Fed law enforcement keeping an eye on right-wing extremists is quite justified; the actual report was rather sloppy; the tie-in regarding veterans particularly sloppy; and the leaking of the report, scandalous. I also think that there are people here who have reasonable grounds for agreeing or disagreeing with me on each of those points, and that it would be blockheaded of me to accuse them of "obfuscating for terrorists".

555 callahan23  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:09:27pm

re: #489 jill e

Security guard has died...

Oh my, ....
my deepest sympathies go out for his family and friends.

556 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:09:45pm

re: #517 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Are we sure that he was, or was that a fantasy part of his bio?

Good question. I would find it very hard to believe he could've served in Europe during WWII and done this act and believed these things. Not impossible, but unlikely, IMHO.

557 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:09:48pm

re: #541 LudwigVanQuixote

We at the Zionist Occupation Government wish to inform you that for revealing the secret of platform shoes, you will need to be re-educated. Your check is being cancelled, but please have a bagel and a little tea while you wait for the corrections assistants to help you with your faulty thinking.

Thank you.

Zionist Occupation of Remulak.

//////

Sigh. The platform shoes. My dad is a big Irish guy, and all my life I've been able to find him at Jewish events because he sort of towers over the crowd at your average synagogue function.

558 cubbydave44  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:09:53pm

Two Comments/Questions:
1) Why is the media so quick to flash everywhere that this was a white supremacist? (It takes days to find out that a similar attack was committed by a Muslim Jihadist...).
2) When will we stop referring to these people as "right wing" extremists? Does it really matter if an extremist is right wing or left wing? In what way does it qualify as being a "qualifier" of extremists?

559 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:09:57pm

re: #535 Dianna

And for cops, it was worse than useless.

That is what I'm hearing from law enforcement.

560 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:10:12pm

re: #500 Charles

The target audience for the DHS report wasn't bloggers and pundits -- it was cops. People who work in law enforcement. It was a backgrounder, general by design. It was identifying general characteristics and beliefs that can be used to recognize right wing extremists.

It wasn't intended to be a wanted poster, telling cops to expect attacks from specific groups.


I know cops don't have the reputation of being literary critics, but with due respect, that doesn't mean the DHS can turn out any sloppy piece of work and it be OK.

(Incidentally, many cops themselves would fit the "right wing extremist" profiles described in the report).

As to not pointing out specific threats by specific groups, that's one of the big flaws of the report. The corresponding "left wing" report had scads of pages on specific groups and threats, with accompanying documentation, for example.

561 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:10:13pm

re: #530 MJ

Yes, but he popularized it, especially among the antisemitic crowd.

It was popular among the antisemetic crowd even before he wrote it. They picked up on his book because of his fame. He truly was a useful idiot. real historians trashed his book, as it lacked almost any evidence.

562 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:10:17pm

re: #534 Kenneth

And on other groups too: left wingers, Islamist or various foreign rebel groups like the Tamil Tigers.

I saw pro-Tamil Tiger demonstrators here in DC just last week.

I *do* hope Fed law enforcement is keeping an eye on them.

563 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:10:32pm

re: #547 Kenneth

There are other similar DHS reports on left-wing extremists and Islamic extremists. They covered them all.

Were the others made public?

564 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:10:49pm

re: #546 Dianna

What's "infowars"?

A website that is full of conspriacy craziness. Trust me you don't want to visit it for true information. On the other hand it's good for giggles if you like debunking that stuff. The website owner is also a frequent guest on Coast to Coast AM (conspiracy radio I call it).

565 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:11:01pm

re: #504 Thanos

It might also be because there was a campaign right after the DHS report of people putting buttons on websites "Proud to be a Right-Wing Extremist".

It's almost like a willful obtuseness, a willful misreading of that DHS report.

Much the same dynamic has been taking place with regard to the report's comments about veterans; it pointed out, quite rightly, not that veterans themselves are more prone to violence or extremism but that disaffected and disturbed veterans are highly attractive as recruits for these extremist groups and have the skills for engineering destruction on a far greater scale than people without military training.

The military itself has been aware of this for a long time and has been policing its own ranks to prevent infilitration by extremists who join up to radicalize other members and/or to acquire weapons training.

Nothing controversial or surprising about any of this; no grand sweeping statement has been made impugning our veterans.

And yet there are people who persist in misreading the report and seem to be happy to embrace the label of 'right wing extremist'. Why are people conflating 'right wing' with 'right wing extremist', and why are so many people who are merely right wing seemingly rushing to label themselves 'extremists'? It's a mystery to me.

566 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:11:06pm

re: #557 SanFranciscoZionist

Sigh. The platform shoes. My dad is a big Irish guy, and all my life I've been able to find him at Jewish events because he sort of towers over the crowd at your average synagogue function.

If you look at the IDF, you can find a large number of Bill Goldberg sized men :)

567 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:11:07pm

re: #542 nikis-knight

Groups were indeed named. I read the pdf that was on the web.

568 badger1970  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:11:19pm

All that report was to law enforcement was "no shit Sherlock". Lots of information, vague on details.

569 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:11:25pm

From Brunn's vile site:

REAR ADMIRAL John G. Crommelin, USN, said this about James von Brunn:
"It is my conviction that James von Brunn deserves the gratitude and assistance of every White Christian citizen of these United States."

Who is this Crommelin guy, and is he still in the Navy?

570 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:11:36pm

re: #552 lawhawk

Just wonderful. Brunn had a notebook with more than 100 "targets". Police are investigating.

Gee this all makes me wonder of I should get a gun license?

571 n2stox  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:11:50pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Anyone still have hurt feelings over the DHS memo?

As one that was originally pissed off, I still see problems in the memo. But now at least I see the true right wing wackos that I can't find the words to explain.

I guess I've been called "right wing" too many times by my lib friends. I see that term now and think "are they referring to me" almost automatically.

But then I have to remember: if I were truly a right wing wacko, I would not have lib friends to call me such.

/head spinning now.

572 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:02pm

re: #546 Dianna

What's "infowars"?

"Troof" for Fantasy/SF dorks.

573 Desert Dog  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:12pm

re: #533 Thanos

So are you now backing down from attacking the accuracy of the report to just questioning the timing?

The report is what it is. A generalized warning of potential activities from right wing extremists. My assertion is this report was used as a political tool to taint the Tea Parties that happened the following day. Why is that "theory" so hard to accept? If Bush did the same thing, release a derogatory report about left wing nuts the day before an Anti Iraq War protest, everyone in the MSM would be screaming bloody murder.

574 Mike in Boulder  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:16pm

Thanks for reporting on this Charles. It is good to know that when something like this happens there is a place where I can go to get facts and other info I won't get anywhere else.

575 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:26pm

re: #541 LudwigVanQuixote

We at the Zionist Occupation Government wish to inform you that for revealing the secret of platform shoes, you will need to be re-educated. Your check is being cancelled, but please have a bagel and a little tea while you wait for the corrections assistants to help you with your faulty thinking.

Thank you.

Zionist Occupation of Remulak.

//////

Re-education!? Oh noes!
ROTFLMAO

576 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:27pm

re: #557 SanFranciscoZionist

Sigh. The platform shoes. My dad is a big Irish guy, and all my life I've been able to find him at Jewish events because he sort of towers over the crowd at your average synagogue function.

Really? I've met plenty of tall Jews.

577 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:32pm
578 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:35pm

re: #557 SanFranciscoZionist

Sigh. The platform shoes. My dad is a big Irish guy, and all my life I've been able to find him at Jewish events because he sort of towers over the crowd at your average synagogue function.

What about a nice pair of kitten heels? Are they part of the JOO conspiracy, too?

579 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:41pm

re: #452 Killgore Trout

We're not even 6 months into Obama's term. There is going to be plenty of evidence over the next few years. At this point people who are still objecting to the DHS memo are actively obfuscating for terrorists.

Bullshit - how dare you engage in that kind of yellow smear? I would expect that kind of vicious, unfounded attack from someone with less integrity than you have.

580 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:12:55pm

re: #563 Nevergiveup

Were the others made public?

The DHS report wasn't 'made public'; it was leaked.

581 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:01pm

re: #543 lawhawk

The report was focused on the right wing of the political spectrum. It was right there in the title. My beef is that it was overly generalized and nonspecific so as to be useless to law enforcement for profiling purposes (to discern potential threats).

Again, I have to disagree. I don't think any information is "useless" to law enforcement, and I don't think everything in the report was necessarily intended only to help discern potential threats. This kind of background information can also help cops tie cases together by being able to notice shared characteristics, or help them recognize important evidence immediately after a crime happens, or many other possible uses.

582 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:17pm

Bizarre. MENSA released a message regarding the shooting.

[Link: www.us.mensa.org...]

583 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:19pm

re: #576 Occasional Reader

I know three (dad, brother and myself). I'm the runt at 6'2.

584 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:28pm

re: #563 Nevergiveup

Here's one.

There are others, all you got to do is google.

585 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:40pm

re: #577 Iron Fist

I wasn't particulally troubled by the report. It was simply the kind of thing that one would expect to come out of the Obama Administration.

The DHS report was commissioned under the Bush Administration.

586 callahan23  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:41pm

re: #569 Cato the Elder

From Brunn's vile site:

Who is this Crommelin guy, and is he still in the Navy?

Here is some wiki background on the Admiral.

587 theheat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:49pm

re: #545 Honorary Yooper

Klukkers and shite supremecists, as a group, consider themselves quite religious. They constantly refer to scripture to validate their beefs with Jews and non-whites. So, yes, these do qualify as religious extremists.

588 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:13:52pm

re: #562 Occasional Reader

I saw pro-Tamil Tiger demonstrators here in DC just last week.

I *do* hope Fed law enforcement is keeping an eye on them.

Still protesting here in Toronto across from the American Consulate. Took some pictures yesterday. Remind me later, I still have to post them online.

589 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:14:10pm

re: #573 Desert Dog

Yes, but it's speculation not fact, which is the same realm that the extremists live in too much.

590 hokiepride  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:14:17pm

re: #248 Gus 802

The guy who posted that on FR should have his account nuked fast too. People should be more careful from where they post articles

591 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:14:34pm

re: #569 Cato the Elder

John G. Crommelin

592 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:14:39pm

re: #546 Dianna

What's "infowars"?

Alex Jones troofer/conspiracy website.

(I recently watched that IFC "New World Order" documentary that Charles recommended, that featured lots of Alex Jones. I showered thoroughly afterwards.)

593 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:14:40pm

re: #586 callahan23

Another anti-Semite, segregationist, and it should come as no surprise that he and Brunn had common cause.

594 calcajun  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:14:59pm

A right nutter to be sure. But, as for the DHS report, didn't it talk about "organized" groups? This guy is hardly organized.

595 theheat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:15:14pm

re: #587 theheat

PIMF - not shite supremecists, it's white.

596 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:15:33pm

re: #595 theheat

PIMF - not shite supremecists, it's white.

Same thing.

597 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:15:41pm
598 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:15:41pm

re: #568 badger1970

The idea was to inform cops of who the groups are and what they are about. That way if they arrest some guy and find Christian Identity propaganda on him, they will know he ain't your average Sunday school teacher. The report was not intended to be a PhD level thesis or a highly classified intel report. It was a tool for the cops on the beat.

599 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:15:42pm

re: #582 Gus 802

He was a member at one time, I would expect them to.

600 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:15:46pm

re: #569 Cato the Elder

From Brunn's vile site:

Who is this Crommelin guy, and is he still in the Navy?

Crommelin--long gone. Brunn--probably not telling the truth.

601 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:15:50pm

re: #594 calcajun

A right nutter to be sure. But, as for the DHS report, didn't it talk about "organized" groups? This guy is hardly organized.

Lone wolf.

602 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:16:01pm

re: #585 iceweasel

The DHS report was commissioned under the Bush Administration.

And most of the information related to threats expected with the election of Obama.... unless they were psychic when it was written.

603 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:16:54pm

re: #494 wrenchwench
The guy spent most of entire adulthood just for this one moment when he thought he could kill a Jew.

Yep. I don't think that dementia or depression are factors at all.

If he wanted to kill a Jew, then why did he shoot a uniformed security guard? (I mean, the guy *could* have been Jewish, but playing the odds. . .probably not, right?).

Also, if he was waiting his whole life for this, then why did he wait until he was 89 years old?

If he was desperate, depressed, or demented, we might be able to find that out from interviews with friends, family members, or caretakers.

604 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:01pm

re: #594 calcajun

A right nutter to be sure. But, as for the DHS report, didn't it talk about "organized" groups? This guy is hardly organized.

That is that they also mentioned what they called lone wolves.

605 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:08pm

re: #586 callahan23

Here is some wiki background on the Admiral.

Thanks. Just found that myself. (Why do I ask questions like that before googling? Must be I crave dialog, living alone as I do.)

What a piece of work he was. And one can't help wondering how many active military leading lights might agree with him in private.

606 astronmr20  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:11pm

re: #83 doppelganglander

Sorry, I have to disagree. I want my nuts right out front where I can keep an eye on them.

That's what she said.

607 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:23pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Bizarre. MENSA released a message regarding the shooting.

[Link: www.us.mensa.org...]

Not bizarre. I'm glad they clarified that.

608 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:28pm

re: #576 Occasional Reader

Really? I've met plenty of tall Jews.

There are plenty of them. But the average height is not too impressive, especially in earlier generations.

609 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:29pm

The DHS memo is becoming like Trutherism. Too many people stuck on stupid.

610 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:52pm

re: #38 Dianna

Can someone tell me what "Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog" means?

It's a statement "The best of gentiles shall be killed"

Here is an explanation of the context of this statement.

611 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:17:56pm

re: #579 Spare O'Lake

Bullshit - how dare you engage in that kind of yellow smear? I would expect that kind of vicious, unfounded attack from someone with less integrity than you have.

Well, you know what they say. Never let a good crisis go to waste (especially when you can use it to score political points).

612 jimmyk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:18:06pm

re: #547 Kenneth

There are other similar DHS reports on left-wing extremists and Islamic extremists. They covered them all.

If those reports were similarly leaked to the media, then I'll withdraw my point 2. But points 1 and 3 still remain, as well as the other valid criticisms that have been pointed out (the vagueness, etc.).

There's a tendency to jump on the wackiest comments and ridicule them, but not address the valid concerns about that report.

613 theheat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:18:15pm

re: #603 looking closely

Perhaps recent events motivated him enough to finally take action before he croaked of old age.

614 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:18:15pm

re: #599 Thanos

He was a member at one time, I would expect them to.

re: #607 doppelganglander

Not bizarre. I'm glad they clarified that.

OK I reckon so.

615 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:18:34pm

re: #592 Occasional Reader

I can't tell if Alex Jones is a "left-wing extremist" or a "right-wing extremist" but one thing is for sure: he's nuttier than squirrel poo!

616 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:18:50pm

re: #609 Killgore Trout

The DHS memo is becoming like Trutherism. Too many people stuck on stupid.

And too many people defending it stuck on obtuse.

617 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:18:56pm

re: #576 Occasional Reader

Really? I've met plenty of tall Jews.

I'm 5'8" that counts.... RIGHT!?

618 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:19:11pm

re: #588 BlueCanuck

Still protesting here in Toronto across from the American Consulate. Took some pictures yesterday. Remind me later, I still have to post them online.

Mark Steyn on the pro-Tamil Tiger demonstrations in Canada.

Like the revelation during the 2006 war with Israel that half the population of Lebanon hold Canadian passports, the Tamil protests were one of those rare moments when the veil lifts and Canadians glimpse the sheer scale of societal transformation.

619 beens21  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:19:41pm

why is weekly standard blog blocked from the spinoff links?

620 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:19:41pm

re: #606 astronmr20

That's what she said.

I didn't realize how that sounded until long after I posted and the conversation moved on. For the record, I don't have nuts.

621 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:19:52pm

The same person who timed the release of the DHS report, and put a para in about the election of Obama also stopped the SNL skit I think

[Link: 74.125.95.132...]

///////

622 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:19:53pm

re: #581 Charles

Again, I have to disagree. I don't think any information is "useless" to law enforcement, and I don't think everything in the report was necessarily intended only to help discern potential threats. This kind of background information can also help cops tie cases together by being able to notice shared characteristics, or help them recognize important evidence immediately after a crime happens, or many other possible uses.

The main knock from the right against the DHS report was the focus on recent (Iraq/Afghan) vets. This self-avowed nazi perp was apparently an 88 year old WWII vet, surely not targeted by that part of the DHS report.
Your linkage of this incident to the criticism of the DHS report is therefore, in my respectful submission, an unjustified red herring.

623 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:20:03pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Bizarre. MENSA released a message regarding the shooting.

[Link: www.us.mensa.org...]

I wonder if he was the inspiration for Survival of the Fittest

624 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:20:12pm

re: #548 Thanos

Alex Jones site

I thought that was Prison Planet?!

Wait, they're multiplying!

625 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:20:19pm

re: #601 Gus 802

Lone wolf.

Not really. This guy had an audience and he had groups he interacted with. The Unibomber was a true "lone wolf".

626 patrioticduo  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:20:28pm

Charles, please don't call him a "right wing extremist" since most White Supremacist roots are Liberal Fascist. See "Liberal Fascism" - Jonah Goldberg.

627 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:20:35pm

re: #560 looking closely

I know cops don't have the reputation of being literary critics, but with due respect, that doesn't mean the DHS can turn out any sloppy piece of work and it be OK.

That wasn't what I meant at all - I'm certainly not impugning the intelligence of police. In fact, I'm saying the opposite, that cops are mostly smart professionals who are very focused on their work, and that any and all information can be useful, often in unexpected ways, even if not specific.

The DHS turns out lots of these kinds of reports (I've read a dozen or more of them) and some are more useful than others.

628 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:20:39pm

re: #615 Kenneth

I can't tell if Alex Jones is a "left-wing extremist" or a "right-wing extremist" but one thing is for sure: he's nuttier than squirrel poo!

We are going to have some very strange bedfellows for a time.

629 callahan23  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:20:40pm

re: #586 callahan23

Here is some wiki background on the Admiral.

What a total creep Admiral John G. Crommelin was. From Wiki:

At this time he was known for segregationist, white-supremacist and antisemitic public views. A self-styled white man's candidate, he claimed that Jews are the real enemy of white Christian Alabamians,
630 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:21:08pm
631 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:21:08pm

re: #564 BlueCanuck

I'm pretty sure I've told this tale, but shortly after the first round of elections in post-Saddam Iraq, I was listening to one of these political roundtable shows when they started taking callers. One of the first callers was frantically trying to explain that the Kurds are actually distant relatives of da Jooooooooos, and how they were collaborating with US occupiers and forcing the Iraqis to go out and vote. Every other sentence from this caller ended with "Go it infowars.com and you'll find out it's true!" and his call was based on the flimsy non-existent pretext that Da Jooooos and their proxies in Iraq were oppressing the people....apparently one can't have a decent conspiracy theory unless some sinister Joooos are involved in it.

My reaction was 'It takes a special kind of asshole to see Muslims participating in free elections for the first time as a bad thing to be blamed on the Jews'.

Kinda sums up how I feel about infowars or prisonplanet...

632 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:21:36pm

re: #602 Wendya

And most of the information related to threats expected with the election of Obama.... unless they were psychic when it was written.

That simply is not true; what is true is that right wing extremist groups can be expected to increase in activity under a Democratic administration, just as left wing extremist groups will show a surge under a republican administration.

The report is one of many like it commissioned to make law enforcement aware of certain trends and groups that warrant monitoring. People looking at it for signs of a conspiracy need a reality check. I'd have hoped that events of the last few weeks would have served as that reality check, and yet incredibly some want to see the DHS report as about political maneuvering rather than a valid and justifiable law enforcement document.

633 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:21:37pm

re: #626 patrioticduo

Please don't increase the stupidity.

634 KingKenrod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:21:47pm

re: #597 Iron Fist

Back during the fight on the "Assault Weapons" ban in 1994, I knew a lot of cops who were opposed to it, and to gun control in general. All that kind of law does is make the law suspect in the eyes of people who otherwise are law abiding. This report, to the extent that it mattered at all, probably did more harm than good by doing the same kind of thing.

My real beef with the DHS report was that it could be used as justification (a legal basis) intentionally or unintentionally to harass legitimate groups, like those who oppose illegal immigration or abortion.

But I guess I'm just "actively obfuscating for terrorists" since I continue to have modest concerns for civil liberties.

635 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:21:49pm

re: #626 patrioticduo

Charles, please don't call him a "right wing extremist" since most White Supremacist roots are Liberal Fascist. See "Liberal Fascism" - Jonah Goldberg.

You can't possibly have read the book and believe that.

636 Dianna  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:22:31pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Bizarre. MENSA released a message regarding the shooting.

[Link: www.us.mensa.org...]

He claimed his membership in Mensa on the front page of his website. That's why Mensa felt it had to speak up.

After all, they're a "single-issue" group!

637 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #624 Dianna

I thought that was Prison Planet?!

Wait, they're multiplying!

Prison planet and Infowars are both Alex Jones I think. One sec I'll check, I could be mistaken

638 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:22:48pm

re: #595 theheat

PIMF - not shite supremecists, it's white.

Close enough...

639 formercorpsman  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:23:08pm

This is terrible.

640 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:23:23pm

re: #635 doppelganglander

You can't possibly have read the book and believe that.


Many others have so it's no surprise. The holocaust has been historically revised by a lot of different groups.

641 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:23:38pm

re: #626 patrioticduo

I'm a Goldberg fan, and I utterly reject Salamantis' assertion that the right is defined by racism, but even I wouldn't say that white supremacism has its roots on the left. Is your turban on too tight?

642 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:23:50pm

re: #630 Iron Fist

The DHS produced the report - and it was Chertoff who was DHS. There was an interim DHS until Napolitano was confirmed.

At AG, it was Alberto Gonzales who was succeeded by Holder.

643 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:24:05pm

re: #637 Thanos

Prison planet and Infowars are both Alex Jones I think.

That's what they want you to think.

/

644 yochanan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:24:19pm

the security guard has died

barak dien emes

645 n2stox  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:24:35pm

And, in other terrorist related news:

...the Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan, according a senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee.

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

646 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:24:52pm

re: #644 yochanan

Crap.

647 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:25:07pm

re: #630 Iron Fist

It wasn't the Bush Administration that released the report. It wasn't written under the Bush Administration, at least parts of it weren't. It wouldn't have been in its final form. Things are different under AG Holder than they would have been under, say, AG Ashcroft (I can't recall off the top of my head who the last Bush AG even was. That is how far down on my political meter he was, and that is the way it should be). This is simply political reality.

Gonzales, that overcooked noodle.

648 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:25:08pm

My heartfelt thoughts go out to the family of the security guard.

649 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:25:35pm

re: #609 Killgore Trout

The DHS memo is becoming like Trutherism. Too many people stuck on stupid.

Yeah, but I'm watching you ding down anyone and everyone who dares to question whether is was a good idea or not as if you were some sort of creationist whacko who didn't like that we were talking about evolution or some sort of Paulian who didn't like that we were questioning his politics. I hate to say it, Killgore, but you are stuck on obtuse right now.

Quite frankly, the DHS report was poorly written when you compare it to the other reports Charles linked to. That is not to say such a report might not be useful or not, but that it lacked in quality compared to the others. Was it useful? Maybe. Was it for general consumption? No. Should the offender who leaked it be subject to prosecution? Maybe. Do I question the timing of the leak? Yes. Do I question what's in the report? No. Is it relevant to this case? Maybe, maybe not. If he's just a lone whacko, the DHS report may not do one bit of good to ID this guy before he did harm. Lone wolves are often harder to identify as opposed to organized groups.

650 theheat  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:25:39pm

re: #638 Fenway_Nation

A Freudian slip.

651 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:25:41pm

re: #629 callahan23

Are you shocked that these types tend to flock together...

Decaying offal contains many maggots.

652 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:25:46pm

re: #627 Charles

That wasn't what I meant at all - I'm certainly not impugning the intelligence of police. In fact, I'm saying the opposite, that cops are mostly smart professionals who are very focused on their work, and that any and all information can be useful, often in unexpected ways, even if not specific.

The DHS turns out lots of these kinds of reports (I've read a dozen or more of them) and some are more useful than others.

These reports are usually generic, cataloging multiple characteristics that could be indicators if seen in multiples. They are also an exercise in political bureaucracy at the same time. They make sure to cover all bases so they can't be caught out as "not having reported the possibility" if an event does occur.

653 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:26:16pm

Yes, they are both Alex Jones

654 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:27:02pm

re: #640 Killgore Trout

Many others have so it's no surprise. The holocaust has been historically revised by a lot of different groups.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying lot of people who've read Goldberg's book walk away believing white supremacists have their roots on the left?

655 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:27:04pm

Hm, I'm still hearing lots of sirens here in downtown DC. (Even more than usual, that is.)

656 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:27:25pm

re: #633 Killgore Trout

Please don't increase the stupidity.

I'll fire up the grill...

657 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:27:29pm

re: #617 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm 5'8" that counts.... RIGHT!?

Well, it's the U.S. national average.

658 JHW  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:27:34pm

Remember Jeanne Assam from 2 years ago? She was a hero security guard that stopped a killer that had already murdered 4 people, in two different locations. Crazies come from all sides of the political spectrum, and written, generalized warnings would not have helped the cops in preventing this particular massacre.

659 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:27:43pm

re: #635 doppelganglander

You can't possibly have read the book. and believe that.

FTFY!

660 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:27:54pm

I can't believe how many people are still upset about that DHS report.

661 beens21  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:28:20pm

re: #645 n2stox

And, in other terrorist related news:

...the Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan, according a senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee.

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

re: #645 n2stox

I tried to post that in the spinoffs but it was locked for some reason.

662 badger1970  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:28:21pm

re: #652 Thanos

Just rename the DHS reports as CYA horoscopes.

663 callahan23  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:29:17pm

re: #651 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you shocked that these types tend to flock together...

Decaying offal contains many maggots.

I very well know that as fact as I bred maggots in the tropics for high protein chicken feed.
Not kidding.

664 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:29:19pm
665 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:29:26pm
666 Catttt  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:29:39pm

Awk! Rep. Maxine Waters talking - time to turn off the TV.

668 nikis-knight  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:30:10pm

re: #654 doppelganglander

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying lot of people who've read Goldberg's book walk away believing white supremacists have their roots on the left?

There's a lot of condescension in the multicultural liberals, and collectivist thinking through and through, but white pride is not something that is readily derived from leftist ideas, imo.

669 doppelganglander  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:30:19pm

re: #659 Kenneth

FTFY!

LOL! I've had it for almost a year and I'm ashamed to admit I haven't gotten very far. But I'm a devoted reader of NRO and I'm very familiar with Goldberg's argument.

670 formercorpsman  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:30:27pm

re: #558 cubbydave44

They refer to him as a right wing extremist because he is one. They do exist.

At the same time, you will get no argument from me that the media has a strong bias against the right side politic in this country, and display every day.

Long story short. By making this argument right now, literally on the heels of this incident serves no purpose. It does not challenge anything unfair about the media. It provides cannon fodder for them, instead of the outright condemnation of this act.

This guy is a bastard, and his like minded friends, the scum of the earth.

671 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:31:08pm

re: #649 Honorary Yooper

Yeah, but I'm watching you ding down anyone and everyone who dares to question whether is was a good idea or not.....


Because it's a tiresome and embarrassing topic. It's like debating with Truthers and I'll be happy when it's no longer an issue here.

672 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:31:09pm

re: #655 Occasional Reader

Probably has to do with law enforcement finding that notebook listing other targets. They'll probably have to sweep them all to see if he left any nasty surprises.

673 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:31:54pm

re: #625 Kenneth

Not really. This guy had an audience and he had groups he interacted with. The Unibomber was a true "lone wolf".

If he was not part of a larger conspiracy to commit this crime then he acted alone and thus a lone wolf.

See: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Also:

Lone Wolf Gunmen

[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

Initial reports indicate the gunman acted alone in this incident. SCN has previously issued several communications regarding the threat and challenge posed by lone wolf gunmen. Lone wolves, individuals radicalized by virulent ideologies and drawn to sympathetic causes, operate alone with no apparent connection to and/or direction from established terror groups. Lone wolves pose a significant threat and security challenge as they are extremely difficult to identify and disrupt. The most effective defense against this type of attacker is a comprehensive security program which includes staff training in suspicious activity identification along with a surveillance detection program to identify suspicious persons and/or activity at your facility.

674 JustABill  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:32:08pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Bizarre. MENSA released a message regarding the shooting.

[Link: www.us.mensa.org...]

Why is that bizarre? Sounds like they just wanted to clarify the shooters relationship with Mensa(small) and make it clear that they were a non-political organization.

675 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:32:13pm

re: #612 jimmyk

If those reports were similarly leaked to the media, then I'll withdraw my point 2. But points 1 and 3 still remain, as well as the other valid criticisms that have been pointed out (the vagueness, etc.).

There's a tendency to jump on the wackiest comments and ridicule them, but not address the valid concerns about that report.

This report was not intentionally "leaked to the media" either (unless WND is "The Media")

As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the report was leaked by a law enforcement officer, after it was send to them from the DHS, to a kookservative talk show host/WND writer. It was not leaked by the DHS or any federal government agent.

676 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:32:39pm

re: #667 lawhawk

Even further down the rabbit hole, Brunn was also anti-Christian, claiming that Christianity brought about the downfall of the Roman Empire and that Christianity a hoax.

He sounds like a bit of a hater.

677 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:32:51pm

Good grief. Now that fool Donald Douglas (americanpowerblog) has posted that my comments about the DHS report prove that I'm "on the other side."

678 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:32:59pm

re: #660 Cato the Elder

I can't believe how many people are still upset about that DHS report.

The fingering of returning veterans, who have volunteered and sacrificed for their country, just drives me up the wall.
And I'm not even an American!

679 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:33:07pm

re: #640 Killgore Trout

Many others have so it's no surprise. The holocaust has been historically revised by a lot of different groups.

True, but the claim that white supremacism originates on the left is absolutely not in the book. The poster jumped a great white shark this time.

680 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:33:09pm

I am sorry anyone brought up the DHS report in talking about this incident today. I don't think the report is all that important in the scheme of things and has absolutely nothing to do with the nut cake, anti-Semitic, moron who carried out this act today.

681 midwestgak  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:33:14pm

OT Maxine Waters on FOX. Drop everything and listen. Oh wait. We need a pay czar to "watch the store" We need pay czar to look at bank bonuses.

DOW is -24.04 btw.

Why is this administration so focused on remaking the USA to the USSR?

682 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:34:07pm

re: #671 Killgore Trout

Because it's a tiresome and embarrassing topic. It's like debating with Truthers and I'll be happy when it's no longer an issue here.

As will I, but as with the other topics here, from Islamic terrorism to creationism to Trooferism to socialism, it will pop up from time to time.

683 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:34:19pm

re: #677 Charles

Good grief. Now that fool Donald Douglas (americanpowerblog) has posted that my comments about the DHS report prove that I'm "on the other side."

Who? [crickets]

684 shortshrift  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:34:36pm

re: #609 Killgore Trout

Is the DHS memo some sort of litmus test? Approve and you are smart and politically moderate? Disapprove and you are stupid and extreme (or self-identify as extreme) ?

685 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:34:41pm

re: #681 midwestgak

OT Maxine Waters on FOX. Drop everything and listen. Oh wait. We need a pay czar to "watch the store" We need pay czar to look at bank bonuses.

DOW is -24.04 btw.

Why is this administration so focused on remaking the USA to the USSR?

Why does anyone ask or care what Maxine Waters "thinks" or says?

686 KingKenrod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:34:49pm

re: #671 Killgore Trout

Because it's a tiresome and embarrassing topic. It's like debating with Truthers and I'll be happy when it's no longer an issue here.

Then why were you the first to bring it up in comment #10?

And is such a flaming fashion, I might add.

687 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:35:08pm

re: #677 Charles

Good grief. Now that fool Donald Douglas (americanpowerblog) has posted that my comments about the DHS report prove that I'm "on the other side."

Well, if by that he means "the side of rationality and reality", then yes, you are.

688 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:35:13pm

re: #577 Iron Fist

I agree 100%.

I don't have a problem with the report speculating that now is a potential time for a rise in right-wing extremism or its generalized descriptions per se; I just don't think the report itself was very good. A more professionally written report could have prevented at least some of the "controversy". The thing was just sloppy, that's all.

I don't think it was intentionally so, but context is important. Specifically, as two examples, the current administration has floated the idea of trying to reduce medical funding for veterans. As Senator, Obama was one of the only ones voted not to criminalize the killing of a fetus/baby born after a botched abortion attempt.

So you might imagine why veterans and pro-lifers (as two examples) might feel particularly sensitive about a report that categorizes them in the context of "right wing extremism".

689 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:35:33pm

re: #684 shortshrift

Is the DHS memo some sort of litmus test? Approve and you are smart and politically moderate? Disapprove and you are stupid and extreme (or self-identify as extreme) ?

It is for KT.

690 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:37:44pm

re: #689 Nevergiveup

It is for KT.

Are we collecting them?

I'll contribute the one about whether or not one attended a Tea Party....

691 looking closely  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:37:55pm

re: #649 Honorary Yooper

Lone wolves are often harder to identify as opposed to organized groups.


Almost invariably harder, I'd say.

Particularly when they are geriatric.

And as to the prescience of the DHS report, it seems pretty clear that terrorist attacks will either be committed by groups *OR* by "lone wolves" (ie individuals).

692 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:38:32pm

re: #677 Charles

Good grief. Now that fool Donald Douglas (americanpowerblog) has posted that my comments about the DHS report prove that I'm "on the other side."

Do you ever want to give up and issue a statement that says:

"I hate am against everyone. Yes, even you."

You can't win.

693 albusteve  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:38:39pm

re: #633 Killgore Trout

Please don't increase the stupidity.

so I shouldn't post?

694 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:39:05pm

re: #632 iceweasel

The report is one of many like it commissioned to make law enforcement aware of certain trends and groups that warrant monitoring. People looking at it for signs of a conspiracy need a reality check. I'd have hoped that events of the last few weeks would have served as that reality check, and yet incredibly some want to see the DHS report as about political maneuvering rather than a valid and justifiable law enforcement document.

According to government reports, 0.000845 of veterans are known to be active in extremist groups. About 7% of known extremists either are veterans or claim to be veterans. There are probably more brunettes that are extremists than there are veterans. How does that help law enforcement?

695 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:39:33pm

re: #667 lawhawk

Even further down the rabbit hole, Brunn was also anti-Christian, claiming that Christianity brought about the downfall of the Roman Empire and that Christianity a hoax.

Lots of the more loony-tunes white supremacists are hostile to Christianity. Some attach themselves to odd versions of indigenous European religions. This makes it necessary for non-white-supremacist Asatru people and such to spend a lot of time explaining that they're not crazy racists.

696 jones  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:39:33pm

read 692 as:

hate/am

697 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:39:43pm

re: #678 Spare O'Lake

The fingering of returning veterans, who have volunteered and sacrificed for their country, just drives me up the wall.
And I'm not even an American!

The report did not "finger returning veterans." It said very specifically that only "a small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to recruitment by extremist groups. And it pointed out that their military training could greatly increase the danger of some groups, which was why they were targets for recruitment.

The report did not smear veterans in general. This is simply a false accusation.

698 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:39:57pm

re: #678 Spare O'Lake

The fingering of returning veterans, who have volunteered and sacrificed for their country, just drives me up the wall.
And I'm not even an American!

I have no problem with it. The outrage falls into two categories--those who wish to have no scrutiny of the right, and those who wish not to insult veterans.
Veterans can hack the scrutiny, but this is the shit we won't stand for.

699 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:40:12pm

For Immediate Release
June 10, 2009 FBI Washington, D.C.
Contact: Public Information Office
Statement Regarding Shooting at United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C.

“Members of the FBI’s National Capital Response Squad, SWAT Team, and Evidence Recovery Team deployed to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., to provide on-scene support following a shooting incident at the musuem,” said Joseph Persichini, Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI’s Washington Field Office. “The FBI had no prior knowledge of any act or threat directed at the Holocaust Museum. Preliminary indication is that this incident involved a lone suspect. At this time, we have no additional intelligence information to indicate threats to area landmarks but will monitor the situation closely. The FBI has an outstanding relationship with the Metropolitan Police Department and the U.S. Park Police, and we will together to jointly investigate the facts related to this case.”

700 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:40:19pm

re: #690 eschew_obfuscation

Are we collecting them?

I'll contribute the one about whether or not one attended a Tea Party....

Yeah he has got a hard on for them also

701 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:41:08pm

re: #686 KingKenrod

Then why were you the first to bring it up in comment #10?

And is such a flaming fashion, I might add.

Hmmm...

702 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:43:19pm

re: #686 KingKenrod

Then why were you the first to bring it up in comment #10?

And is such a flaming fashion, I might add.

Actually, if you look at the updated article you'll notice that the DHS report is now mentioned before the comments.

UPDATE at 6/10/09 12:36:47 pm:

With the Tiller shooting and now this — the DHS report that caused such an uproar has been vindicated.

703 cubbydave44  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:44:04pm

re: #670 formercorpsman

I understand that he is an extremist. My point was to float the premise that possibly extremists and nuts exists, independent of "Right Wing" or "Left Wing."

Hate is hate, there is no more reason to be more disgusted by an extra descriptor before the term extremist.

Thought experiment: if this were a Muslim extremist, would it get this much publicity and would he be (wrongly) described as such...?

I am in NO WAY trying to defend this despicable man's heinous act.

Folks, the point is: "peace" will not exist until everyone starts to marginalize and not tolerate ALL forms of extremism...

704 medaura18586  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:44:13pm

re: #677 Charles

Good grief. Now that fool Donald Douglas (americanpowerblog) has posted that my comments about the DHS report prove that I'm "on the other side."

That guy is a drooling idiot. You shouldn't consider his opinion any worthier of your outrage than the run-of-the-mill hate mail you get from morons everyday.

/My 2 cents

705 2by2  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:44:16pm

re: #677 Charles

Would that be the dark side?

706 midwestgak  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:44:33pm

re: #682 Honorary Yooper

As will I, but as with the other topics here, from Islamic terrorism to creationism to Trooferism to socialism, it will pop up from time to time.

{Honorary} I know what you mean. I too, pop up from time to time, read, comment nothing.

Nice to comment and have a response/karma come back. Not the reason for commenting, but nice having the response all the same.

707 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:45:41pm

re: #691 looking closely

Almost invariably harder, I'd say.

Particularly when they are geriatric.

And as to the prescience of the DHS report, it seems pretty clear that terrorist attacks will either be committed by groups *OR* by "lone wolves" (ie individuals).

Yes, but it is useful to law enforcement to be aware of these extremist groups when identifying lone wolves. Lone wolves may not be affiliated with a particular group but that does not mean they are not influenced by them and are just lunatics operating in a vacuum. Roeder isn't part of Operation Rescue, but there is no doubt that his hateful actions were influenced by the kind of rhetoric OR pumps out-- this is so even without the evidence we have of ties with OR.

Extremist groups create a climate of hate that is attractive to disturbed individuals, on either side of the political spectrum. We can also expect an increase in lone wolf activity- and we are already seeing it -- because of the economy. People are stirred up by the rhetoric of hate groups and when they're losing their house, their job, their life savings -- it becomes that much easier for them to walk out of their house with a gun one day and decide they don't care about ever coming back.

708 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:46:51pm

re: #694 Wendya

Please see Charles at 697. This has been discussed over and over again.

709 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:47:03pm

re: #677 Charles

Good grief. Now that fool Donald Douglas (americanpowerblog) has posted that my comments about the DHS report prove that I'm "on the other side."

Other side of what?

710 haakondahl  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:47:46pm

re: #703 cubbydave44

I understand that he is an extremist. My point was to float the premise that possibly extremists and nuts exists, independent of "Right Wing" or "Left Wing."

Hate is hate, there is no more reason to be more disgusted by an extra descriptor before the term extremist.

Thought experiment: if this were a Muslim extremist, would it get this much publicity and would he be (wrongly) described as such...?

I am in NO WAY trying to defend this despicable man's heinous act.

Folks, the point is: "peace" will not exist until everyone starts to marginalize and not tolerate ALL forms of extremism...

The point which you will eventually make if you keep working at it is one with which I completely agree. Good on ya!

711 drogheda  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:50:51pm

re: #709 Kenneth

Other side of what?

Why the right side of course!
///precious bodily fluids

712 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:53:17pm

re: #228 Wendya

Some people are tripping over themselves trying to justify what is a gross over generalization that is as insulting as saying that you might be an animal rights extremist IF you are a vegetarian.

Apparently, you can't quote the part of the DHS report that says that. You instead repeat your own misreading of it.

713 patrioticduo  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:54:42pm

re: 641

Exactly where did I say "left"? Are all liberals on the left? Or were you referring to Liberals? The problem with the labels is that they're all designed to make the "right" look bad. Including making White Supremacists - who started with KKK type organizations that were and remain largely based on Fascist principles - appear to always be from the "extreme right". When in fact, as Jonah points out in his book - Fascism can come from either from the left or the right. And that is why I asked Charles to drop the "extreme RIGHT wing" statement. If he said "Fascist" fine. But why do we allow the left to discredit the right by making a false claim of guilt by association with Fascists? Well, when Charles and others in like mind allow a Fascist nutter to immediately be labeled as "extreme right wing". And so the demonization of the right goes on aided and abetted (intentional or not) by Charles and everyone else that goes along with the Left's Newspeak.

714 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:56:04pm

No true Scotsman...

715 KingKenrod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:56:37pm

re: #702 Gus 802

Well, yeah, but that update was obviously after KT posted at #10.

716 Gus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 1:58:49pm

re: #715 KingKenrod

Well, yeah, but that update was obviously after KT posted at #10.

Right. But I think you know what I mean. ;)

717 yochanan  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:00:37pm

call him a FASCIST not right wing or conservative

718 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:01:03pm

re: #715 KingKenrod

I asked the question to see how many people are still going to stay in denial about the memo in spite of the overwhelming evidence that it was accurate and relevant. I'm not interested in debating it, I just wanted to know if people were still sticking to their objection to the memo.

719 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:01:23pm

re: #708 iceweasel

Please see Charles at 697. This has been discussed over and over again.

Refuting an argument is always better than an appeal to authority.

You have an opinion on this matter as do I.

720 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:03:23pm

re: #718 Killgore Trout

I asked the question to see how many people are still going to stay in denial about the memo in spite of the overwhelming evidence that it was accurate and relevant. I'm not interested in debating it, I just wanted to know if people were still sticking to their objection to the memo.

The guy was a WWII veteran and that makes the DHS memo accurate?

Wow.. that makes him part of the 0.000845% of veterans in this country who have flipped out. Better watch those veterans.

/

721 formercorpsman  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:03:32pm

re: #703 cubbydave44

Yes, everything you say can be valid.

It still gets you nowhere while the blood is still wet on the pavement.

As well, it is just not reality at this point. The media as we know it, is blindly leftist. That is the reality of the situation.

Why make their job easier? I'm not letting them off the hook, just thinking in different terms.

722 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:04:53pm

re: #697 Charles

The report did not "finger returning veterans." It said very specifically that only "a small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to recruitment by extremist groups. And it pointed out that their military training could greatly increase the danger of some groups, which was why they were targets for recruitment.

The report did not smear veterans in general. This is simply a false accusation.

I agree that the report did not smear all vets, and I never said that it did. But by identifying all vets as a target group for recruitment by extremists, it logically follows that all vets will be "vetted" more closely than other groups. That is the unfortunate effect of "fingering" a group.

BTW, similar arguments pro and con are made by groups favouring or opposed to racial or religious profiling by police and airport guards. These are difficult issues even when no political motives are in play - but when politics is added to the mix then it is no wonder that the debate becomes more animated.

723 SixDegrees  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:05:29pm

re: #713 patrioticduo

re: 641

Exactly where did I say "left"? Are all liberals on the left? Or were you referring to Liberals? The problem with the labels is that they're all designed to make the "right" look bad. Including making White Supremacists - who started with KKK type organizations that were and remain largely based on Fascist principles - appear to always be from the "extreme right". When in fact, as Jonah points out in his book - Fascism can come from either from the left or the right. And that is why I asked Charles to drop the "extreme RIGHT wing" statement. If he said "Fascist" fine. But why do we allow the left to discredit the right by making a false claim of guilt by association with Fascists? Well, when Charles and others in like mind allow a Fascist nutter to immediately be labeled as "extreme right wing". And so the demonization of the right goes on aided and abetted (intentional or not) by Charles and everyone else that goes along with the Left's Newspeak.

re: #717 yochanan

call him a FASCIST not right wing or conservative

Although the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is often misapplied, these are two cases where it is completely appropriate. And, in fact, fallacious.

724 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:05:43pm

On Janet Napolitano’s apology to veterans over the DHS report:
I love the way she says "I don't want to offend or castigate all veterans," as if she wants to offend or castigate some veterans, meaning the right wing ones or the conservative ones.
And then she goes ahead and cites Oklahoma City as an example, which I think is at demonstration of the paranoid style of thinking on the American left.
At the time of Oklahoma City, it was attributed widely, implied that that was a result of Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich, the angry white male, the `94 Republican revolution, and that somehow when you get those developments, particularly at the grass roots, it's an indication of insurrection or treason or extremism.
That's absurd. At the time, they were warning us about the Michigan militias, remember, who were going to come out of the hills, lay waste to American democracy. That was a decade and a half ago, and I'm still waiting for that Michigan militia. It's that same mindset all over again.

Charles Krauthammer

725 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:07:38pm

re: #719 Wendya

That's the difference. You have an opinion and disregard facts. I have facts and my opinion is that it's a waste of time to talk to someone who persists in ignoring facts.

The fact is that there is no room for 'opinion' about what the DHS says about veterans, the topic has been more than adequately discussed, and just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean anyone has to keep playing with you.

726 American Sabra  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:08:38pm

re: #383 LudwigVanQuixote

Totally evil site link:

[Link: www.radioislam.org...]

This is the origin of many of the smears that circulate in the crazy-sphere about the Talmud.

I have hated it for years.

Of course, it's all made up crap.

But I've noticed something. When I first started looking at this anti-Semitic stuff which you can unfortunately find all over the place, I noticed that they try to legitimize themselves by using words like "Talmud", "Talmudic Study" or anything that even remotely sounds Jewish or even better, scholarly. Most people don't know what the Talmud means (our Oral tradition) so don't they look so smart if they can quote from the Talmud or even throw in a Hebrew looking (but utterly meaningless) text to quote? I mean, these folks aren't doing any fact checking. They're just following the guy with the torch.

The simply question is, would you trust a racist to teach you anything about the people they hate? You know, when I hear someone use the word "n*****" I run like hell, because "kike" is right behind it. And vice versa, btw.

727 patrioticduo  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:08:59pm

703 and 721:

But don't you think that you're just allowing yourself to talk in code words that are just acceptable to the left. This is the reason why my application for a gun permit stated in the section asking for a Reason: "To exercise my Constitutional right to own and bear arms for all the reasons associated with the Founders providing the 2nd Amendment". Or should I just write "target practice" to smooth over the sensitivities of the Left?

What this man did is despicable, disgusting and shameful. But until conservatives realize that the language is half of the battle, then we will always allow the Left to associate the Right with such monstrosities even though we are not the source of the philosophies that try to justify such atrocities.

728 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:11:10pm

re: #725 iceweasel

That's the difference. You have an opinion and disregard facts. I have facts and my opinion is that it's a waste of time to talk to someone who persists in ignoring facts.

The fact is that there is no room for 'opinion' about what the DHS says about veterans, the topic has been more than adequately discussed, and just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean anyone has to keep playing with you.

One man's fact is another man's opinion.
The effect of the report is to recommend that law enforcement personnel devote more attention to watching veterans than to watching the population in general. Isn't that a fact too?

729 califleftyb  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:11:40pm

re: #539 StillAMarine

No, the alternative is something other then our current libel and slander laws, which are pretty much meaningless and unenforceable. Allow the those targeted by slanderous hate speech, not necessarily by name, but by affiliation, and these hate sites would be shut down! We do have laws designating "hate crimes" as a special category of criminal activity, I see no reason why "hate speech" shouldn't be a special category of libel and slander law, which does not limit free speech yet holds hate speakers accountable for damages.

730 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:17:17pm

re: #728 Spare O'Lake

One man's fact is another man's opinion.
The effect of the report is to recommend that law enforcement personnel devote more attention to watching veterans than to watching the population in general. Isn't that a fact too?

No, that is not the effect of the report. No one is monitoring all veterans; no one believes that all veterans are prone to extremism; no one has suggested that veterans as a whole need to be watched more than the rest of the population as a whole.

731 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:20:37pm

Oh, please. The DHS report didn't say a word about World War II veterans, or describe his appearance, or even the kind of weapons he used or the model of his car. So it's totally useless. Now, Nostradamus, on the other hand...

/

732 Wendya  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:21:35pm

re: #725 iceweasel

That's the difference. You have an opinion and disregard facts. I have facts and my opinion is that it's a waste of time to talk to someone who persists in ignoring facts.

Who is disregarding facts? I've actually listed statistics, you've given your opinion and tried to act as if it were a fact because others agree with you.

733 right_on_target  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:21:52pm

re: #597 Iron Fist

Back during the fight on the "Assault Weapons" ban in 1994, I knew a lot of cops who were opposed to it, and to gun control in general. All that kind of law does is make the law suspect in the eyes of people who otherwise are law abiding. This report, to the extent that it mattered at all, probably did more harm than good by doing the same kind of thing.

_______________________________________
What I don't understand is, how did a CONVICTED FELON get possession of a rifle? von Brunn is a convicted felon.
Looks like another example of an ex-con solidifying his ultra-right beliefs in prison the same way Islam convert jihadists get their indoctrination in prison.

734 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:24:23pm

re: #626 patrioticduo

I know you're a big fan of Jonah Goldberg, but he knows less about fascism than I do, which is not a lot. To say his book is an "outlier" on this subject is an understatement. He began with a premise, and wrote the "facts" to fit. Please read some actual historians' views of his book to get a bit of balance.

735 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:28:05pm

re: #733 right_on_target

_______________________________________
What I don't understand is, how did a CONVICTED FELON get possession of a rifle? von Brunn is a convicted felon.
Looks like another example of an ex-con solidifying his ultra-right beliefs in prison the same way Islam convert jihadists get their indoctrination in prison.

Some possibilities: Maybe he was pardoned. Or the statute ran out. Or there's a clause in there that kicks in for age and/or infirmity, that says an ex-con over 75 is no longer likely to be a threat to others and so lets them keep a gun for home defence.

It'd be interesting to see where that gun was made and sold...

736 medaura18586  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:28:48pm

re: #734 ShanghaiEd

I know you're a big fan of Jonah Goldberg, but he knows less about fascism than I do, which is not a lot. To say his book is an "outlier" on this subject is an understatement. He began with a premise, and wrote the "facts" to fit. Please read some actual historians' views of his book to get a bit of balance.

The more I read about the book (never seemed worth actually reading it) the more I wax disappointed with Jonah Goldberg:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It all sounds like red meat to the idiots.

737 JHW  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:29:20pm

re: #734 ShanghaiEd

The latest edition of Browning's book "Ordinary Men", in an afterward, really takes Goldberg's book to task, as also does Saul Friedlander's work IIRC.

738 MightySkip  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:37:01pm

Appears this guy was a truther who hated neo-conservatives. Quite the right-wing-extremist. Or perhaps its more complicated then that? Hm.

Good thing that DHS report mentioned potential threats from Holocaust deniers... oops it didn't. Good thing it mentioned WW2 vets too, I better go turn in my grandfather.

739 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:40:29pm

re: #732 Wendya

Who is disregarding facts? I've actually listed statistics

The report explicitly said it was referring to a small percentage of returning vets. Your 'statistics' show only that you don't understand the report.

740 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:46:20pm

re: #730 iceweasel

No, that is not the effect of the report. No one is monitoring all veterans; no one believes that all veterans are prone to extremism; no one has suggested that veterans as a whole need to be watched more than the rest of the population as a whole.

You do not, IMO, have any way of knowing that any of what you are alleging is true. If you were a police officer, would you not be compelled to look more closely at all vets as a result of the report?
Please be more honest in your argument.

741 Moose4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:47:46pm

FYI, Free Republic has not deleted their copy of this nutburger's article. It's still up at the original link. Just to be clear, von Brunn wasn't a Freeper, or at least he didn't post that article. Somebody else found it and posted it. That's why I love hanging out at FR, you can find everything over there and apply your own idiot filter to it.

If he lives through his wounds, I hope they fry his ass.

742 Drogheda  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:53:40pm

re: #741 Moose4

FYI, Free Republic has not deleted their copy of this nutburger's article. It's still up at the original link.

It was deleted earlier and the Google cache had the full article. If you check the Google cache now you'll see what it looked like when it was deleted. Apparently they undid the deletion for whatever reason.

743 ihateronpaul  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:54:40pm

I cant stop loling at people that think white power people aren't right wing

744 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:55:28pm

re: #740 Spare O'Lake

This is like muslims complaining that they are all being 'targetted' by phrases like "Islamic terrorism".

745 Moose4  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:56:23pm

re: #742 Drogheda

Ah, my bad.

746 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:57:38pm

re: #736 medaura18586

The more I read about the book (never seemed worth actually reading it) the more I wax disappointed with Jonah Goldberg:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It all sounds like red meat to the idiots.

Funny you should mention that. It's my understanding that the second edition of Goldberg's book will have a new subtitle...Liberal Fascism: Red Meat for the Idiots.

747 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 2:59:10pm

re: #744 Jimmah

This is like muslims complaining that they are all being 'targetted' by phrases like "Islamic terrorism".

Actually it's more like muslims complaining that they are all being targeted by phrases like "muslims".

748 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:00:15pm

re: #740 Spare O'Lake

The report explicitly said it was referring to a small percentage of returning vets.

The burden of proof is on you here, since you apparently have less respect for the reading comprehension of our law enforcement officers and agencies than I.

749 LC LaWedgie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:00:57pm

First a disclaimer: I'm not/never have been a RoPaulian and wouldn't have voted for him on a bet.
---
There are many extremists on both sides that hate Jews. I doubt that he was a Ron Paul supporter, he's so far out there that I doubt he wants any government interference in his underhanded sneaky dealings at all. Also, his website appears to criticize "Democracy" with the same disdain as he critizes "Jews" and "Marx."
Most likely his sole reason of joining the Yahoo group was to spread his message to the weak-minded such as "tommyoverload" who posted this reply to him, who's profile is here. (Note: his blog, "victim of the patriot act" has been deleted).
You only have to go to this post at dailyKos to verify that. Note commenter "marachi mama" statement:

"Ron Paul is not our friend and after the last debate I saw too much praise by Kossacks of this wingnut."
750 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:01:44pm

re: #747 Spare O'Lake

Actually it's more like muslims complaining that they are all being targeted by phrases like "muslims".

Huh? No. Right wing terrorism is clearly a threat to public safety, as is muslim terrorism. In both cases, we are seeing/have seen silly attempts to twist this simple acknowledgement of fact into an unfair attack on all right wingers/all muslims.

751 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:05:15pm

re: #748 iceweasel

The report explicitly said it was referring to a small percentage of returning vets.

The burden of proof is on you here, since you apparently have less respect for the reading comprehension of our law enforcement officers and agencies than I.

So if law enforcement reads that only a small percetage will become extremists, does that mean that law enforcement will ignore the report?
I submit not, but if they do then the report would be useless.

752 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:10:42pm

re: #750 Jimmah

Huh? No. Right wing terrorism is clearly a threat to public safety, as is muslim terrorism. In both cases, we are seeing/have seen silly attempts to twist this simple acknowledgement of fact into an unfair attack on all right wingers/all muslims.

Vets are for the most part patriots. To suggest that they should, as a group, be watched is very tough to swallow, even if there are a few bad apples.
It's not "silly" if you happen to be a member of the targeted group.

753 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:12:34pm

re: #746 ShanghaiEd

Funny you should mention that. It's my understanding that the second edition of Goldberg's book will have a new subtitle...Liberal Fascism: Red Meat for the Idiots.

Hey, all anyone needs to do is look at the history of the changing subtitles of the book to know that that's been the real subtitle all along!

First it was Liberal Fascism: The Totalitarian Temptation From Mussolini to Hillary Clinton

Then it became: The Totalitarian Temptation From Hegel to Whole Foods

Before finally: The Secret History of the American Left From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.

More seriously, I can recommend David Neiwert's many excellent articles on it-- a good short debunking of a central problem with the book is here:

[Link: dneiwert.blogspot.com...]

Goldberg's definition does not fit fascism specifically. One could use nearly the same terms and ideas to define Leninist Marxism, or a totalitarian state of any kind. That's because what his definition describes is not fascism specifically, but totalitarianism (or authoritarianism, if you will) generally.

Fascism is a specific species of totalitarianism, and it's best understood not by the things it has in common with other forms of this phenomenon, but what distinguishes it from those other forms. This is why the academic debate has raged for some years over the "fascist minimum", for which Roger Griffin, at least has provided a worthy start by defining fascism as "palingenetic ultranationalist populism." You'll note that all three of these traits are in fact unique to fascism.

But there are other traits common and in many cases unique to fascism as well, and Goldberg overlooks these as well -- while such scholars as Robert Paxton, Stanley Payne, and Umberto Eco, all of whom Goldberg cites in his book, in fact emphasize them.

(snip)
Note that none of these aspects of fascism appear in Goldberg's "definition." In fact, he seems to studiously avoid discussing them as essential to fascism because they are so plainly antiliberal.

Goldberg's "definition" can't be taken seriously because it's so clearly meant to enhance his thesis, while omitting the facets of the term he seeks to define that undermine or in fact destroy his thesis.

It would have been fine, really, if Goldberg had chosen to write about "Liberal Totalitarianism" or "Liberal Authoritarianism." I have no doubt that there is such a thing, and examining it might even make an interesting book and subsequent discussion.

Much more detail at this review, [Link: www.prospect.org...]

And here is a fairly comprehensive listing of all of Neiwert's articles on it, with links to many other sources:
[Link: dneiwert.blogspot.com...]

There are many other places to find substantive criticisms of Goldberg's book, but I can recommend Neiwert more generally as well for all the work he's been doing for the past 15 years or so in monitoring right wing extremism.

754 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:13:01pm

re: #751 Spare O'Lake

So, these reports should never mention the larger groups from which terrorists are drawn? Some facts are inherently unfair? We should not mention that Islamic terrorists are, well Islamic, because that's going to make everyone in law enforcement prejudiced against muslims. Right.

755 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:13:19pm

re: #752 Spare O'Lake

Vets are for the most part patriots. To suggest that they should, as a group, be watched is very tough to swallow, even if there are a few bad apples.
It's not "silly" if you happen to be a member of the targeted group.

No one has suggested that they be monitored as a group, or suggested that they as a group need more monitoring than anyone else.

756 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:18:47pm

re: #752 Spare O'Lake

Vets are for the most part patriots. To suggest that they should, as a group, be watched is very tough to swallow, even if there are a few bad apples.
It's not "silly" if you happen to be a member of the targeted group.

The suggestion is that we acknowledge facts in the interests of getting a full picture of terrorists of all types. The vast majority of muslims are not terrorists. Are you saying now that it is not silly for muslims to object to the phrase "Islamic terrorism", and to complain that it constitutes persecution?

757 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:22:03pm

re: #753 iceweasel

Another thumbs-up for Neiwert's work on extremism. He's one of a handful who saw this coming years ago, and is definitely a top authority on the subject.

758 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:27:46pm

re: #757 ShanghaiEd

Agreed. I'm a huge fan of Neiwert's work on extremism and he's largely responsible for why I am interested in the subject or know anything about it.

I'd love to know any other recommendations you have for people who have been monitoring it or are authorities on it; I've only been reading him.

759 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:28:10pm

I'm not one to complain about downdinging, but this is seriously petty stuff from spare o'lake :

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I said : "Dinner time....later."

LOL!

760 Perplexed  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:29:34pm

re: #743 ihateronpaul

I cant stop loling at people that think white power people aren't right wing

So what is the political bent of people making the call for black power?

761 JohnH  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:32:36pm

With regard to the DHS report, was there anything, a single thing in that report which helped the security guards or law enforcement PREVENT this incident?

......


Didn't think so.

762 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:39:01pm

re: #759 Jimmah

I'm not one to complain about downdinging, but this is seriously petty stuff from spare o'lake :

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I said : "Dinner time....later."

LOL!

"No soup for you!" :)

763 LC LaWedgie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:41:05pm
764 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:45:14pm

re: #758 iceweasel

Agreed. I'm a huge fan of Neiwert's work on extremism and he's largely responsible for why I am interested in the subject or know anything about it.

I'd love to know any other recommendations you have for people who have been monitoring it or are authorities on it; I've only been reading him.

It's a bit out of date (1997), but Morris Dees' The Gathering Storm: America's Militia Threat is still an excellent overview of the militia movement's history and mindset.

765 doubter4444  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:51:47pm

re: #12 Zimriel

I posted on the previous thread that we can expect aeroport searches to get even more dehumanising. Especially if we're a bit too blond and have too Germanic a last name. I could easily see TSA authorities getting their licks in.

That's a pretty despicable thing to say, really, if you think about the meaning of what you wrote.
Unless you forgot the snark tag.
It is the same as agreeing with the shooter IMO, just a bit more subtle.

766 LSD  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:52:20pm
767 shortshrift  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:57:12pm

re: #707 iceweasel

Precisely. Murder may be committed by: members of an extremist group in fulfillment of the group's mission; individual extremists in the name of, or following the ideology of the group, but where the group's explicit mission is not to murder; individuals working alone but sharing the ideology or characteristics of one or more groups; lunatics ...
The DHS lexicon was not - probably could not be - clear in identifying the profile of the kind of person who might become a murderer of the second kind. Individuals actually recruited by extremist groups are obvious targets, individuals who may be recruited by virtue of their training in violence (vets) are not - unless the army has marked those with psychological or behavioural problems - as they are too numerous, and weapons training is not exclusive to that group. As for lone wolves, identifying them from any population sub-group is problematic. Rather than "rounding up the usual suspects", it is probably more efficient for law enforcement to guard the usual victims (Jewish institutions).

768 doubter4444  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:03:03pm

re: #73 Jimmah

Another 'non existent right wing extremist' that poses a threat to public safety in America. Been a lot of them in the news lately.

Remember - this DHS report stuff about right wing extremists is just politically motivated paranoia designed to make ordinary conservatives feel uncomfortable/

Again, my sarcasm meter is off today...is that meant to be funny? or sarcastic?

Because if not, you some heavy duty Reynolds wrap (the choice of wing-nuts everywhere)

769 shortshrift  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:03:47pm

Further thoughts.
Following Kilgore Trout's litmus test, I find the issue of group identity interesting.
Referring to my categories of murderer above:-
In the first case, think Nazis - there is no need for other groups to proclaim their innocence simply because they are on the same side of a crude binary political divide: "right/left". Of course, individual expressions of horror are natural.
In the second case, think Tiller, I can see the need for fellow members of the group - pro-life specifically, Christian more loosely - to condemn the action. A straightforward expression of condemnation is warranted. Unfortunately, the need to disassociate the individual from the group almost invariably takes the form of either the "No True Scotsman" argument (of which the "(Group) In Name Only" is a variation), or the "tu quoque" - the fact that there are murderers from politically or ideologically opposed groups.
In the third case, the groups that share some ideology or characteristics with the murderer are not implicated. Individuals who identify with the groups that have some ideas or characteristics in common with the murderer should not require fellow group members, on pain of excommunication, to disassociate themselves from the murderer. In the first place, that would concede an association. Second, it places a burden upon those who do not feel the need to stand up and be counted on matters of common human decency. One should be accorded the presumption that one abhors murder. "I hate right-wing murderers and left-wing murderers," as a constant refrain is redundant and faintly goody- goody.

When Kilgore Trout uses the DHS report as a proxy for demanding repudiation of "right wing" extremist murderers, or demanding acknowledgment that there are "right-wing" murderers, I feel that I am being subjected to the cross-examination fallacy of "When did you stop beating your wife?" I never beat my wife, I have never disavowed the existence of right-wing murderers or extremists, and I will not concede that the DHS' confused profiling has been vindicated. Especially since the DHS did not need veteran recruitment theories to find the Holocaust Museum murderer who profiled himself in word and deed before he fired his shotgun.

770 doubter4444  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:10:56pm

re: #153 Russkilitlover

I think I had dinner with three of those folks of yours Santa Fe. I knew they were mensans because they wouldn't stop mentioning it! They drank expensive mixed drinks all night (I drank iced tea) and then insisted on "fairly" splitting the bill evenly among us. Even then, they came up a bit short and I had to add to cover the tip.

Mensans......meh!

Hey, they were smart enough to get you to pick up the lions share of the tab!
/

771 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:15:29pm

re: #512 califleftyb

Not unexpectedly the first thing you hear out of law enforcement and parroted by the press is "This was an isolated incident". I call BS on that! You can find a direct link from this shooting to the anti-Semitic/anti-Zionist/anti-Jewish hate speech, from both the extreme left and right, that has chipped away at what passes for acceptable dialog. Dare criticize it and they throw the "Livingstone Formulation" at you.

In the same way the anti-abortion "lifers" now cry crocodile tears, shocked that someone would actually take the meaning of their words to heart, we now will hear a chorus from the Move.on/Kos/RonPaulian ilk that they only engage in political discussion and don't condone violence against anyone. Well they pulled the trigger today as much as that old Nazi.

I'm an anti-abortion "lifer", I have NOT cried crocodile tears but I am genuinely appalled by the murder of Dr. Tiller, and I would never have pulled the trigger. Please try to refrain from painting with such a broad brush.

772 doubter4444  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:22:14pm

re: #207 zombie

I think they were referring Iraq and Aghan war vets -- not WWII vets!

It seems to me that everyone is making a distinction without a difference. The report mentioned returning Vets, yes, correct.
But to pretend that the mindset that could entice a very very few disturbed minds for this war does not apply to other vets and to ignore that (a tiny tiny percent of) other vets could not turn in the same way seems to me to be parsing the issue and rings a bit shrill.
It's not wrong to say the report only mentioned recently discharged Vets, but it's not wrong to think and be aware that other Vets could snap too.

773 LC LaWedgie  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:27:24pm

According the the original definition of right vs. left wing:

In politics, right-wing, political right, rightist and the Right are terms applied to positions that focus on restoring or upholding traditional values and customs which sometimes includes maintaining a form of social hierarchy.[1][2][3] The phrase right-wing was coined during the French Revolution, when right-wing referred to seating arrangements in parliament; those who sat on the right supported the monarchy, the aristocracy and the established church.[4][5][6]

It seems to me that a right-wing traditionalist, no matter how extreme, would uphold the rule of law, i.e. murder is forbidden, and the moment that one takes the law into one's hands chooses to formulate his own law, he has stepped beyond the bounds of right-wing thought and acts solely within the left-wing arena as a revolutionary in the thought process of "vogue".
I'm sure he'll find a nice left-wing extremist or libertarian extremist defense lawyer to take his case.

774 doubter4444  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:34:13pm

re: #626 patrioticduo

Charles, please don't call him a "right wing extremist" since most White Supremacist roots are Liberal Fascist. See "Liberal Fascism" - Jonah Goldberg.

You read that crap? And believe it?
I have a conservative bridge to sell you right over here.

775 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:42:50pm

re: #764 ShanghaiEd

Thank you very much; I will check that out. Think I've seen DW mention it? In any case it will still be timely, I fear-- the growth of the militia movement in the 90's was fuelled by anti-govt rhetoric, and just as we're seeing a return to the anti-abortion violence of the 90's, I think we can expect a similar wave of violence from extremist groups and individuals with violent anti-govt sentiments.

776 mystry  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:45:13pm

#76.. Please define Hate Crimes and also Hate Groups. I do not think that you could get 100 people to agree with each other on either category.

777 Lynn B.  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:54:53pm

re: #755 iceweasel

No one has suggested that they be monitored as a group, or suggested that they as a group need more monitoring than anyone else.

Exactly. Lest we forget, this is what the DHS report said:

Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists. DHS/I&A (Office of Intelligence and Analysis) is concerned that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to boost their violent capabilities.

This has nothing to do with "monitoring" or "targeting." Consider this quote, for comparison:

Many senior citizens are lonely. Their children have busy schedules and don't visit very often. This leaves these elderly people vulnerable to scams perpetrated by criminals who seem friendly and kind.

Is this warning an insult to the elderly? Does it suggest they should be monitored or targeted? To the contrary, it suggests that, as a population that may be through no fault of their own be targeted by criminals, they should be wary and those who care about them should also.

Not an exact analogy, but it's a heck of a lot closer than the misinterpretations of the DHS report that are being bandied about.

778 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 5:10:06pm

re: #768 doubter4444

Again, my sarcasm meter is off today...is that meant to be funny? or sarcastic?

Because if not, you some heavy duty Reynolds wrap (the choice of wing-nuts everywhere)

Fret not, it's sarcastic, (hence the '/' at the end).

779 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 5:12:08pm

re: #777 Lynn B.

Exactly. I'd give you a million updings for that if I could.

Here's another section of the DHS report that sparked outrage on the right:

Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

(italics and bolding mine)

Some on the right looked at this and decided it was talking about them. It continues to be a mystery to me why people merely on the right were in such a rush to identify themselves as 'rightwing extremists.'

The report, which repeatedly talked about lone wolf types, was warning law enforcement about people exactly like this guy in DC today, and the murderer of Dr Tiller last week.

780 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 5:16:54pm

re: #775 iceweasel

Thank you very much; I will check that out. Think I've seen DW mention it? In any case it will still be timely, I fear-- the growth of the militia movement in the 90's was fuelled by anti-govt rhetoric, and just as we're seeing a return to the anti-abortion violence of the 90's, I think we can expect a similar wave of violence from extremist groups and individuals with violent anti-govt sentiments.

I hope not. This hateful act should be latched onto by conservatives. We ought to use it to remind the world how dangerous terrorism is, and reiterate our opposition to it in any form. While doing that, we need to read a few crazies out of the party.

781 The Left  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 5:29:50pm

re: #780 Dark_Falcon

I hope not. This hateful act should be latched onto by conservatives. We ought to use it to remind the world how dangerous terrorism is, and reiterate our opposition to it in any form. While doing that, we need to read a few crazies out of the party.

Hey DF-- great to see you! Hope you're well.

I agree with you entirely; I really hope you're right. And I agree with you that the crazies need to be weeded out of the party, for the good of the party and the good of the country.

Here's one concrete thing that the GOP could do: they could be more active in distancing themselves from the nirther movement. GOP Reps Bill Posey of Florida and Bob Goodlatte of Virginia have sponsored a bill that would require presidential candidates to furnish a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

These are two members of the United States Congress! who are pushing a bill that serves no legitimate purpose other than to fan the flames of the nirther conspiracy theorists and kooks who lurk there. It's not like it was ever going to pass, but the mere fact of its existence panders to the worst of the lunatic fringe and unfortunately lends their paranoid imaginings legitimacy--if only in their own minds. It encourages them.

782 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 5:56:49pm

Free Republic, a more wretched hive of villany you will not find.

Full of freaks, nutcases, and just vile people.

They are all pro life, except when it serves their purpose.

783 DANEgerus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:02:59pm

"...the DHS report that caused such an uproar has been vindicated."

The excess of the DHS was in the broad smears against our military, who are in fact the targets of Jihadists, right here in America.

Or does everyone forget the Daily Kos many anti-Semitic postings and Rev Wright's outbursts this very day. How exactly are white supremacists "right wing" when they are advocating National Socialism in an environment of anti-Semitism made all the more septic by our constantly apologizing President and his "mentor" and "father" Rev. Wright?

Or are we all going to talk about how Barack Hussein Obama is a Christian because he poses as one?

784 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:08:47pm

"With the Tiller shooting and now this — the DHS report that caused such an uproar has been vindicated."

Yes indeed. And those who barked the loudest certainly do like their guns, don't they?

785 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:13:33pm

re: #783 DANEgerus

Another long time registrant with minimal posts crawling out from under the rocks.

786 nyc redneck  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:16:08pm

re: #291 Nevergiveup

And in ANY event using this 89 year old fruitcake to prove your point that the report was right is outrageous.

an 89 yr. old man doing something like this is so out of the ordinary and bizarre,
it is hard to imagine what it proves.
wow eighty nine years old. i think it proves that people can nurture hate and evil until they go to their graves.

787 pingjockey  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:19:37pm

re: #786 nyc redneck

Hate knows neither age nor race. Hate just is. And it sucks ass.

788 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:23:24pm

re: #752 Spare O'Lake

Vets are for the most part patriots. To suggest that they should, as a group, be watched is very tough to swallow, even if there are a few bad apples.
It's not "silly" if you happen to be a member of the targeted group.

Most Americans are for the most part patriots. To suggest that they should NOT be watched for a few bad apples is just plain stupid. (I had some more clever versions of this sentence in mind, but was concerned that you wouldn't understand, so I kept it simple).

789 josephus  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:28:55pm

Doesn't the shooting of the marine last week imply that the DHS report should have been directed to law enforcement regardless of ideology? The problem with the report is not the warning itself. The warning makes sense. Rather, the problem is the specific inclusion of "right wing" elements. The report should have outlined all threats as clearly there are threats from both realms of the political spectrum.

790 pingjockey  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 6:30:55pm

re: #788 Naso Tang
Most Americans are not being watched. The fringe, extreme elements, sure. But just cause you are a vet. you aren't being singled out for attention. OTOH, if you're a vet who visits neonazi encampments, jihadi mosques, yeah the feds might be watching you.

791 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 7:50:52pm

re: #600 haakondahl

Crommelin--long gone. Brunn--probably not telling the truth.

Looking at Crommelin's public record, I'd have to say Brunn was very likely accurate in that quote.

792 Scorch  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:49:35am

Were any of the murderers in the Pittsburgh, Tiller or Holocaust museum shootings military trained?

793 SGTTED  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 5:59:48am

It is a stretch to tie this nutter in with the DHS report. Realy small beer actually.

794 patrioticduo  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:42:05am

re: #633 Killgore Trout

Now do you call it stupidity? When this guy clearly has more in common with the left and hates the right? [Link: michellemalkin.com...]

795 ihateronpaul  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:36:04am

re: #753 iceweasel

HMMMMMMM

maybe
(just maybe)
jonah goldberg is a complete hack cashing in on Godwin's Law to sell books!

Anyone think of that?

796 patrioticduo  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:04:28am

re: #795 ihateronpaul

An ad-hominem attack followed by an appeal to a non scientific "law". Wow, that was deep and insightful.

797 iceman1960  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 9:30:36am

This guy was also a truther that hated christians, republicans, Bush and neocons.
Doesn't really sound like a right winger to me. Just sounds like a nut.

798 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:06:56am

re: #791 Cato the Elder

Looking at Crommelin's public record, I'd have to say Brunn was very likely accurate in that quote.

You are absolutely correct. I did my own checking and linked to a SPLC precis on extremism in the military somewhere up this thread. I figured that it couldn't be true, because I recall USS Crommelin, an FFG named for the Admiral. SO I thought that perhaps if Brunn was telling the truth, there were two Admirals Crommelin. Not the case, I am sad to say.
It's disappointing to know that we had a ship named for some white supremacist asshole as recently as perhaps ten or fifteen years ago. Maybe even less.

799 CEQAttorney  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:18:41am

Charles, I have to disagree with your assessment.

The DHS report had little to do with this incident, which was the problem that everyone had with the report itself.

As I have pointed out earlier, the purpose of the report was to warn local law enforcement of potential "right wing" radical elements. It supposedly provided guidance in identifying these elements by pointing to their beliefs. The problem was that the beliefs that the report centered on were beliefs that are common to most conservatives.

The report was did not specifically identify radical groups or give specifics on locations or any real information.

If a local law enforcement agency used the report, I would be considered a potential right wing radical. I am a former military person who owns several weapons. I dislike the current President and his policies. I do not like illegal aliens coming into this country. I think the biggest problem with our government is that our politicians only do things to keep them in power than to serve the people. I think that California (my state) needs to completely collapse and re-organize its government because the current leaders are completely unwilling to fix the problems.

Thus, I an "anti-government" former military person with access to weapons. I meet the DHS criteria as a potential "right wing" radical even though I have never broken a single law in my entire life and never have been associated with any violent groups.

Ironically, the shooter's beliefs are actually more in tune with the Huffington Post and the Daily Kos than any conservative blog. Those "left wing" elements constantly talk about how Israel needs to be punished for it's "crimes."

No one denies that there are radical "right wing" elements in the United States. However, the DHS report painted a broad brush over anyone who is a conservative or holds conservative beliefs.

800 Scorch  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:49:37pm

LOL...Charles you down dinged me for asking a question? Maybe I should post the question again.
Were any of the associations you posted earlier trained by the US military? Ding me down all you want but at least have the courtesy to answer the question.

801 SGTTED  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:07:45pm

I know I'm only a 26 year veteran of the US Army, with my fair share of training and dealing with terrorists and how they operate. This nut job doesn't fit the bill. Expecially in trying to tie him to the DHS report.

"Lone Whacko Conspiracy Theorist" is the more correct category.

But what do I know?

802 banner  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:10:33pm

This doesn't validate the DHS report, the guy was NOT a right winger. He hated the neo-cons, Bush, etc.

From: [Link: www.examiner.com...]

The anti-semitism of von Brunn is the first thing one notices when visiting these bizarre websites. However, like those of most "white supremacists", many of von Brunn's political views track "Left" rather than "Right." Clearly, a re-evaluation of these obsolete definitions is long overdue.

Sp please stop calling him a rightwinger. He was just a nutcase.


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Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201018It was a full weekend here at the pond. 8 yards of top soil were (was?) delivered Friday afternoon Saturday was prepping the butterfly bed:First, a good weed whacking, a bit of leveling, then laying down weed barrier.On top of ...
dangerman
3 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 380 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 9
Tweets: 0 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201011The weather held out just long enough that we could start painting the deck. It is tedious work and still quite tiring in the heat.Just one line in the notes says 'paint deck' but it's gonna translate into many, many ...
dangerman
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 841 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 9
Tweets: 0 •
For What It’s Worth - Buffalo Springfield (Cover by Del McCoury Band and Friends) Now Available Digitally:rainmaker.lnk.to See the new release from this jam session of "One Kind Favor" (See That My Grave Is Kept Clean) - Blind Lemon Jeffeson.YouTube A few months ago, a bunch of friends got together to play music ...
Thanos
1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 1,188 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 •
Trevor Noah: A Primer on 21st Century “Militias” [VIDEO] A toxic mix of racism and paranoid conspiracy fantasies has propagated the worst among us to arm themselves to the teeth in anticipation for the slaughter of their fellow citizens. Militias have been a part of America since it ...
teleskiguy
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,301 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
(49) Mandolin Orange - Unknown Legend (Neil Young Cover)Echo Mountain stream. July 24th, 2020.
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,282 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 •
The Expanse - Season 5 Official Trailer The future of The Belt has begun as Marco Inaros wages Armageddon against the Inners for a lifetime of oppression and injustice. » Watch the new season of The Expanse now exclusively with your Prime Membership: bit.ly» SUBSCRIBE: bit.ly ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,224 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 4 •
Cellist Plays to Mourn Cathedral Shelled in Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict A historic cathedral has been shelled amid the Armenian-Azerbaijan conflict in the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh, or Artsakh, region, where hundreds have been killed and tens of thousands displaced after two weeks of new fighting. On the evening of Thursday 8 ...
garzooma
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,116 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 •
Future Islands - Born in a War (Official Video) 'Born In A War' by Future Islands Wayne White - Director and Production DesignerWoodrow White - Editor, Co-Director, Co-Production Designer Future Islands’ new album 'As Long As You Are', out now on 4AD. Listen, stream and buy album here: ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,223 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
St. Vincent - New York Ft. Yoshiki (Audio)FOLLOW ST. VINCENTilovestvincent.comFacebook: found.eeTwitter: found.eeInstagram: found.ee FOLLOW YOSHIKIyoshiki.netfacebook.com@yoshikiofficialinstagram.com #StVincent #Yoshiki
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 1,532 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 4 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201004Saturday was filled with intermittent rain so no deck painting. A year ago(!) we had the two fellas dump the first 10 yards of sand into the pool.The front loader damaged a bunch of deck tiles. We anticipated it and ...
dangerman
2 weeks, 5 days ago
Views: 1,344 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •