Von Brunn and the BNP

US News • Views: 4,714

The Washington Post has a story on James W. Von Brunn, the accused Holocaust Museum shooter, and his life-long connections with paleocon and libertarian extremist causes and people: Holocaust Museum Shooting Suspect Had History of Hate, Signs of Breaking Point.

John de Nugent, an acquaintance who describes himself as a white separatist, noticed the change when they last spoke two weeks ago.

“He said his Social Security had been cut and that he was barely making it,” de Nugent said. “He felt it was the direct result of someone in Washington looking at his Web site.”

In one of his e-mail blasts expressing his white supremacist views, the man police sources say shot and killed a security guard yesterday at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum told readers that they shouldn’t expect to hear from him again. Von Brunn was shot and critically wounded by museum guards.

He was about to give away his computer, his primary connection to the fringe world of radical racists. He was living hand to mouth.

The e-mails were getting violent in tone: “It’s time to kill all the Jews.”

Todd Blodgett, a white supremacist turned FBI informant (who worked for paleo-kook Willis Carto), told the Post that Von Brunn attended meetings in support of the fascist British National Party:

Von Brunn sometimes spoke of having fought for the wrong side in World War II, Blodgett said, and the two men sometimes attended meetings in Arlington County of the American Friends of the British National Party, which raised funds for the British white supremacist group.

Now that Von Brunn has apparently snapped and killed someone, his friends are worried that he’ll make them look bad. Yes, really.

De Nugent called von Brunn a genius but described the shooting as the act of “a loner and a hothead.”

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

(Hat tip: David Benzion.)

Jump to bottom

667 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:37:21am

I think I prefer the "creepy" picture of this bottom-feeder to the younger one that has been circulating. More true to the man.

2 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:38:04am
“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

WTF?

3 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:38:04am

How does anybody's social security get cut? No way I know of, unless he'd been overpaid in the past. Delusional.

4 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:38:27am

Boy, the cockroaches really run when the light is turned on.

Guess what, BNP? This guy is you.

5 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:38:27am

Is there an "irresonsible" such community?

6 calvin coolidge  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:38:31am

If vonBrunn wants this out of the media, he just has to claim he's an islamic extremist. They'll put the story in small print on page 85. Nothing to see here, just move along.

7 subsailor68  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:38:44am

De Nugent called von Brunn a genius but described the shooting as the act of “a loner and a hothead.”

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.

Uh, nope. You do that all by yourselves.

8 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:38:45am

This is becoming a very bad replay of the 70's with the Black Panthers and other radical fringe groups doing violence.

9 littleoldlady  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:39:00am
“The responsible white separatist community condemns this...”

"And by the way, don't miss our bake sale on Sunday!"

10 jaunte  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:39:41am

“The responsible white separatist community"

What are they claiming responsibility for?

11 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:39:53am
"The responsible white separatist community "

The piece of shit actually said that.

12 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:39:56am

Fancy that this guy has links to all the fashionable white nationalist and other extremist groups you can think of. The one tie that binds them all together is anti Semitism.

Are there any queers in the theater tonight? Get 'em up against the wall! That one in the spotlight, he don't look right! Get him up against the wall! And that one looks Jewish... and that one's a coon! Who let all this riff raff into the room? That one's smoking a joint! And that one's got spots! If I had my way, I'd have all of you shot!

While the above was sung by Pink in Pink Floyd's The Wall, it could just as easily come from Brunn's sick twisted mind.

13 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:40:12am

Maybe he should have saved on gas money by not attending the AFBNP meetings. I wonder if he gave them money.

14 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:40:18am

re: #3 Son of the Black Dog

How does anybody's social security get cut? No way I know of, unless he'd been overpaid in the past. Delusional.

I was wondering the same thing.

15 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:40:35am

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

just let that phrase roll around your mind for awhile

16 jaunte  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:41:18am

re: #15 sattv4u2

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

just let that phrase roll around your mind for awhile

Ow.

17 LatinGent  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:41:22am

Apropo, this coming after the Carter thread. Total continuity.

18 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:41:27am

re: #8 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is becoming a very bad replay of the 70's with the Black Panthers and other radical fringe groups doing violence.

Hyper inflation, stagnant economy, & political violence. Yep, all we need now is some harvest gold kitchen appliances & it's the 1970s all over again.

19 freetoken  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:41:28am

Would it surprise anyone to find out that the guy to whom Von Brunn turned over his website... turns out to be a Paulian?

20 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:41:30am

re: #2 MandyManners

WTF?

A perfect example of an oxymoron, or perhaps just moron.

21 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:41:39am

White separatists...white separatists...

I don't actually have a problem with that. They can go and be as separate as they want. Far away from me and my children, preferably.

22 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:42:05am

re: #15 sattv4u2

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

just let that phrase roll around your mind for awhile

I think it can be translated as the "responsible white separatist community" tries not leave any witnesses. In this manner, Von Doom was irresponsible./

23 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:42:15am

re: #19 freetoken

I'll be surprised if he isn't a Paulian.

24 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:42:16am

re: #8 FurryOldGuyJeans

With the Black Panthers getting a recent pass from the O' regarding election fraud I wonder if they'll feel the need to "step up" their "community influence"...
sigh...
This guy and the abortionist murder will get 24/7 coverage for their more than 15 minutes of fame but a soldier killed by a declared jihadist (even if a "loner") get's nearly ignored by most of the media...

25 MikeAlv77  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:42:24am

I wonder... How does having an anti-semite nutcase make you look bad only AFTER he shoots someone... curious people these nut cases are...

26 subsailor68  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:42:28am

re: #15 sattv4u2

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

just let that phrase roll around your mind for awhile

Yeah. It's kind of like Charles Manson saying that Jeffrey Dahmer makes all the rest of us murdering, cannibalistic, totally insane, bottom feeding scum buckets look bad.

27 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:42:50am

Apparently the Weekly Standard was on Brunn's hit list notebook, as the FBI paid a visit to the Weekly Standard yesterday in conjunction with their ongoing investigation into Brunn's activities.

Two other sources said two FBI agents arrived shortly after 5:00 p.m. Thursday at the 17th Street offices of the magazine. They told staffers that they had found the address of the magazine on a piece of paper associated with the shooter, James von Brunn, and asked whether the Standard had received any threats.

The magazine is about a mile north of the Holocaust Museum, and there's no other indication that von Brunn had targeted it. Von Brunn's published rants included attacks on "neocons," and the Standard has been at the heart of the neoconservative movement.

28 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:43:19am

re: #9 littleoldlady

"And by the way, don't miss our bake sale on Sunday!"

They have a real thing for ovens. :(

29 JustABill  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:43:25am

re: #18 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Hyper inflation, stagnant economy, & political violence. Yep, all we need now is some harvest gold kitchen appliances & it's the 1970s all over again.

Anyone know where I can find a leisure suit?

30 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:03am

re: #11 Kenneth

The piece of shit actually said that.

Oxymoron.

31 slokat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:12am

re: #29 JustABill

Anyone know where I can find a leisure suit?

Hillary has some...

32 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:13am

re: #29 JustABill

Anyone know where I can find a leisure suit?

Or perhaps a zodiac medallion...

33 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #12 lawhawk

Fancy that this guy has links to all the fashionable white nationalist and other extremist groups you can think of. The one tie that binds them all together is anti Semitism.

While the above was sung by Pink in Pink Floyd's The Wall, it could just as easily come from Brunn's sick twisted mind.

And while we're on the subject, here's one for the BNP:

34 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:27am

re: #30 Cygnus

Oxymoron.

Heavy on the moron.

35 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:30am
“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

///

36 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:36am

re: #12 lawhawk

Then again, I doubt that Brunn could have strung that much coherent language together based on his disorganized writing style.

37 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:14am

re: #32 MrSilverDragon

Or perhaps a zodiac medallion...

Did asking a girl "what's your sign?" ever work?

38 wiffersnapper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:24am

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

Do they not realize what they're saying?

39 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:30am

It's because of the TEA PARTIES!

40 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:33am

re: #28 Cygnus

They have a real thing for ovens. :(

Sorry, I meant no offense and was not trying to be funny.

41 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:48am

re: #15 sattv4u2

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

just let that phrase roll around your mind for awhile

WaPo correction. Condemn should have read commends.

42 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:51am

re: #37 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Did asking a girl "what's your sign?" ever work?

When asked, I would reply, "No Left Turn".

43 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:51am

I saw - and lost the link - that Von Brunn had the address of The Weekly Standard, as well.

44 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:45:55am

re: #28 Cygnus

They have a real thing for ovens. :(

And don't miss their barbecues, over cross-shaped grills.

45 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:46:06am

re: #18 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Hyper inflation, stagnant economy, & political violence. Yep, all we need now is some harvest gold kitchen appliances & it's the 1970s all over again.

Avocado.

46 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:46:13am

re: #29 JustABill

Anyone know where I can find a leisure suit?

My closet.

47 littleoldlady  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:46:42am

re: #28 Cygnus

They have a real thing for ovens. :(

OY! :-(

/actually, I was snarking about how mainstream the "responsible white separatist community" is...

48 subsailor68  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:47:09am

re: #42 MrSilverDragon

When asked, I would reply, "No Left Turn".

LOL! Years ago, just to be sarcastic, I did ask a girl that. She replied, "slippery when wet."

We dated for quite awhile!

;-)

49 mikalm  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:47:18am

re: #37 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Did asking a girl "what's your sign?" ever work?

Only when she answered, "Slippery When Wet"!

50 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:47:22am

re: #37 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

No, but "want to go make out?" did... except when getting slapped... but when it works it works well...

51 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:47:26am

re: #46 FurryOldGuyJeans

My closet.

Lime green?

52 jorline  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:47:44am

All of von Brunn's acquaintances are distancing themselves now.

De Nugent called von Brunn a genius but described the shooting as the act of “a loner and a hothead.”

Genius? WTF! I don't know about a loner, they seem to travel in packs.

Doesn't distance make the heart grow fonder?

53 mikalm  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:47:51am

re: #48 subsailor68

GMTA

54 Idle Drifter  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:47:58am

re: #2 MandyManners

WTF?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over!
Responsible white supremacist community how? In like waiting to coordinated attacks against Jews, non-whites, etc before bring down the heat?

55 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:19am

re: #48 subsailor68

re: #49 mikalm

re: #50 anotherindyfilmguy

Hold up, I gotta write these down...

56 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:20am

Very obliquely on-topic:
[Link: patriotshop.us...]

/facepalm

57 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:25am

Von Brunn is one of those paleocons who really hates neocons.

58 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:42am

re: #52 jorline

What's so freakin' genius about shooting up a museum and killing a guard?

59 middy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:47am

"Do these pants make me look fat?"

"No, your fat ass makes you look fat."

60 S'latch  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:50am
Call him a Nazi?
He won't even frown.
"Nazi schmatzi."
Says Werhner Von Bruan.

- Tom Lehrer

61 Kragar  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:55am

Nazis complaining that when someone takes their teaching to heart makes them look bad?

Oy Vey.

62 subsailor68  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:48:58am

re: #53 mikalm

GMTA

I can tell you're a person of incredible intelligence, terrific wit, and you're probably really good lookin' too!

:-)

63 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:49:04am

re: #52 jorline

MSNBC used that quote to headline their story on Brunn. They buried the fact that the guy they quoted was himself a white separatist, racist, and bigot.

64 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:49:12am

This is the type of person people like Spencer, Geller, et.al. have chosen to ally themselves with, with their support of groups like the BNP and the Vlaams Belang. This is the warning Charles (and others here) gave about these groups and the people associated with them. Yet we were rebuffed for our warnings.

65 KansasMom  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:49:13am

re: #15 sattv4u2

“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

just let that phrase roll around your mind for awhile

Not if I can help it. Gives me the creeps.

66 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:49:24am

re: #57 Charles

Von Brunn is one of those paleocons who really hates neocons.

Is neocon a code for some meaning Jews or supporters of Israel?

67 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:49:51am

re: #27 lawhawk

Apparently the Weekly Standard was on Brunn's hit list notebook.

The article goes on to say that Von Schwanzkopf attacked "Jews-Neocons-Bill O'Reilly". So, if there's still finger-pointing to be done, I wonder who'll be blamed for this appalling action.

68 littleoldlady  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:49:58am

re: #66 MandyManners

Is neocon a code for some meaning Jews or supporters of Israel?

Yes and yes.

69 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:50:02am

re: #59 middy

"Do these pants make me look fat?"

"No, your fat ass makes you look fat."

"Are you wearing space pants, 'cause your butt is out of this world!"

70 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:50:04am

re: #51 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Lime green?

Florescent Blue, actually. And a pair of brown platform shoes.

71 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:50:07am

re: #39 Ben Hur

It's because of the TEA PARTIES!

ewwww... you're twittering with Markos....

72 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:50:12am

re: #66 MandyManners

Is neocon a code for some meaning Jews or supporters of Israel?

Bingo.

73 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #57 Charles

Von Brunn wasis one of those paleocons who really hates neocons.


fixed it...

74 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #18 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Hyper inflation, stagnant economy, & political violence. Yep, all we need now is some harvest gold kitchen appliances & it's the 1970s all over again.

We do. We just call it "stainless steel".

75 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:50:49am

re: #73 anotherindyfilmguy

He's not dead.

76 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:51:08am

This is why I pray he pulls through and lives to see trial. Stormfront's worst nightmare: A respected member of the community with the muzzle off, ranting and raving from the dock, with national news media noting every word and every connection.

They were already wetting themselves about this yesterday.

77 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:51:09am

re: #70 FurryOldGuyJeans

Florescent Blue, actually. And a pair of brown platform shoes.

Solid!

78 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:51:39am

A nice cast of characters.....
Hands Across the Water

The American Friends of the British National Party draws together U.S. hate groups while funding British racism.
...
That track includes what the British call "entryism" into the mainstream — an uncommon strategy for American extremists, who have more often than not rejected working within the system.

During last fall's U.S. presidential race, the AFBNP nearly succeeded in its explicit strategy to "infiltrate" and "hijack" several state chapters of the Reform Party, which was already heading to the far right under presidential candidate Pat Buchanan.
....
Speakers have been as varied as Internet hate guru and former Klansman Don Black and Richard Kelly Hoskins, a long-time ideologue of the anti-Semitic Christian Identity theology.

Meetings of the AFBNP also have drawn race-obsessed American Renaissance Editor Jared Taylor and various activists of the racist — but supposedly "mainstream" — Council of Conservative Citizens.

Cotterill is especially close to Klansman-turned-politican-turned-expatriate David Duke and his racist European-American Rights Organization.

79 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:51:41am

re: #37 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Did asking a girl "what's your sign?" ever work?

I heard a long time ago about an astronomer who, when asked that question, would answer "I'm an Orion" or if in an irritable mood, "I'm an Ophiuchus". I really want to try that someday.

80 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:51:57am

re: #75 MandyManners

He's not dead.

Is this guy dead or not?

81 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:51:59am

re: #66 MandyManners

Is neocon a code for some meaning Jews or supporters of Israel?

.... and what are paleocons? Cons from the paleolithic era?

I've always been a conservative. Does that make me a plainolcon?

82 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:52:00am

re: #75 MandyManners

He's not dead.

Oooopsy... my bad... at 88 though he won't last long in prison, assuming he lives through the wounds etc...

83 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:52:10am

Breaking...American's net worth shrinks by 1.33 Trillion in the first quarter.

AP Economics Writer= WASHINGTON (AP) — American households lost $1.33 trillion of their wealth in the first three months of the year as the recession took a bite out of stock portfolios and dragged down home prices.

The Federal Reserve says household net worth fell to $50.38 trillion in the January-March quarter, the lowest level since the third quarter of 2004.

The first-quarter figure marked a decline of 2.6 percent, or $1.33 trillion, from the final quarter of 2008. Revised figures show that during the recession's deepest point in the October-December period, Americans' net worth fell by 8.6 percent.

Net worth represents total assets such as homes and checking accounts, minus liabilities like mortgages and credit card debt.

84 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:52:18am

re: #74 Honorary Yooper

We do. We just call it "stainless steel".

I hate stainless steel appliances. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want my kitchen to look like a hospital commissary.

85 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:52:21am

re: #68 littleoldlady

Yes and yes.

Based on the flimsy assumption that he knew what he was saying when he condemned Jews-Neocons-Bill O'Reilly, it would appear that the set of neocons contains members who are not Jews.

86 redstateredneck  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:52:23am

re: #3 Son of the Black Dog

How does anybody's social security get cut? No way I know of, unless he'd been overpaid in the past. Delusional.

Higher medicare premiums?

87 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:52:52am

re: #76 Cato the Elder

He might get off the charges with an insanity plea from his state appointed attorney...

88 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:53:09am

re: #27 lawhawk

Apparently the Weekly Standard was on Brunn's hit list notebook, as the FBI paid a visit to the Weekly Standard yesterday in conjunction with their ongoing investigation into Brunn's activities.

That makes sense. The editor, William Kristol, is the son of Irving Kristol, much hated by the paleocons.

89 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:53:13am

re: #83 DistantThunder

Breaking...American's net worth shrinks by 1.33 Trillion in the first quarter.

I forgot....are we not supposed to link to or quote from AP?

90 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:53:47am

re: #66 MandyManners

Is neocon a code for some meaning Jews or supporters of Israel?

Natch.

91 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:53:52am

re: #85 John Neverbend

Based on the flimsy assumption that he knew what he was saying when he condemned Jews-Neocons-Bill O'Reilly, it would appear that the set of neocons contains members who are not Jews.

Of course it does. One doesn't need to be a Jew in order to support Israel.

92 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:53:54am

re: #70 FurryOldGuyJeans

Florescent Blue, actually. And a pair of brown platform shoes.

*slaps hand over eyes, scrolls quickly down the page*

I had a rust-colored one, and mutton-chop sideburns.
There's an Olan Mills photo in the family.
I think my daughter has it.
I wish she'd burn it.

/heh

93 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:00am

re: #88 doppelganglander

That makes sense. The editor, William Kristol, is the son of Irving Kristol, much hated by the paleocons.

Who else has a loathing for the neocons...?

94 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:17am

re: #89 DistantThunder

I forgot....are we not supposed to link to or quote from AP?


It's ok to link..But stick to the comedy threads...

95 Cygnus  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:18am

re: #56 negativ

Very obliquely on-topic:
[Link: patriotshop.us...]

/facepalm

I prefer the 'Terrorist Hunting License'. They deserve to be shot.

96 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:22am

re: #93 DistantThunder

Who else has a loathing for the neocons...?

Ron Paul.

97 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:30am

re: #73 anotherindyfilmguy

fixed it...

Forget "paleo" or "neo". He was just a con (thinking in French, and not commenting on his political affiliations).

98 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:46am

re: #83 DistantThunder

Breaking...American's net worth shrinks by 1.33 Trillion in the first quarter.

But don't worry, the dollar supply increased by at least that much!

99 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:49am

re: #75 MandyManners

Not dead... yet.

100 JustABill  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:54:49am

re: #92 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*slaps hand over eyes, scrolls quickly down the page*

I had a rust-colored one, and mutton-chop sideburns.
There's an Olan Mills photo in the family.
I think my daughter has it.
I wish she'd burn it.

/heh

bury baby burn, disco inferno!

101 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:55:00am

re: #93 DistantThunder

Who else has a loathing for the neocons...?

Paleocons, neolibertarians, liberals, socialists.

102 littleoldlady  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:55:05am

re: #85 John Neverbend

Based on the flimsy assumption that he knew what he was saying when he condemned Jews-Neocons-Bill O'Reilly, it would appear that the set of neocons contains members who are not Jews.

Correct. "Neocons" (when said with an accompanying *spit*) are, as Mandy said, code for Jews and other (presumably not Jewish) supporters of Israel.

103 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:55:13am

re: #101 Honorary Yooper

Paleocons, neolibertarians, liberals, socialists.

Oh my!

104 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:55:24am

re: #93 DistantThunder

The Left.

105 jorline  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:55:48am

re: #89 DistantThunder

I forgot....are we not supposed to link to or quote from AP?

You're OK...it's just the news organization that has ROIDS in the name.

106 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:55:52am

re: #102 littleoldlady

Correct. "Neocons" (when said with an accompanying *spit*) are, as Mandy said, code for Jews and other (presumably not Jewish) supporters of Israel.

Littleoldlady! Good to see you!

107 littleoldlady  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:56:25am

Hiya Hoosier! :-)

108 jorline  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:56:32am

re: #94 HoosierHoops

It's ok to link..But stick to the comedy threads...

Good afternoon Hoopster! Who's taking the game tonight?

109 subsailor68  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:56:41am

re: #87 anotherindyfilmguy

He might get off the charges with an insanity plea from his state appointed attorney...

I hope the public defender's office interviews each of its lawyers before making a decision:

"What's your case win/loss record, Bob?"

"Well, sir, as you know, I came in last in my night school law classes, failed the bar exam seven times, and have never won a single case."

"Good man! Mr. Von Brunn is all yours."

110 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:56:41am

re: #93 DistantThunder

Who else has a loathing for the neocons...?

The Rolling Stones - they did release "My Sweet Little Neocon."

111 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:56:50am

I'm listening to Obama stuttering and stammering through a townhall meeting on health care. The great orator. Insisting, get this, that we have to have a public option in order to compete with private health insurance in order "to keep them honest."

Government tends to become the most corrupt of all.

112 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:57:07am

re: #91 MandyManners

Of course it does. One doesn't need to be a Jew in order to support Israel.

I know that. One of the articles suggested, however, that "he" conflated the two.

113 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:57:29am

re: #87 anotherindyfilmguy

He might get off the charges with an insanity plea from his state appointed attorney...

I doubt it. He's been preaching and writing about this stuff for decades. Everyone knew about it. Unless he's got a prior record of psychiatric treatment, no judge or jury is going to find him insane by virtue of his writings.

114 jones  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:57:47am

Did the Roman Empire have better Social Security benefits.

This guy really does make crazy old bastards look bad. Grandpa Simpson should denounce him.

115 callahan23  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:58:01am

re: #57 Charles

Von Brunn is one of those paleocons who really hates neocons.

I beg to oppose a little. From Reines' comment two threads ago a link to examiner.com

" ... The anti-semitism of von Brunn is the first thing one notices when visiting these bizarre websites. However, like those of most "white supremacists", many of von Brunn's political views track "Left" rather than "Right." ...
... As well, even a cursory glance at "white supremacist" writings reveals a hatred of, say, big corporations that is virtually indistinguishable from that of anti-globalization activists.
James von Brunn's advocacy of 9/11 conspiracy theories also gives him an additional commonality with individuals on the far-left. ... "

He was, as to my understanding by no means a paleocon.

116 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:58:07am

more on the roaches running from the association here:

[Link: seismicshock.wordpress.com...]

117 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:58:19am

re: #111 DistantThunder

Why doesn't he just shut the fuck up already? CNN is STILL carrying it. Fox and MSNBC have stopped.

118 littleoldlady  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #111 DistantThunder

DistantThunder! :-)

All I heard him say was, "We have to act fast!" and I had to walk away from the TV - fast!

/....stimulus package, anyone?

119 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:58:49am

re: #112 John Neverbend

I know that. One of the articles suggested, however, that "he" conflated the two.

I guarantee you he would shoot those who support Israel given half the chance.

120 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:58:55am

He hated black people, Jews, neocons...

I have a strong feeling that if you dug down deep, the person he hated most was named James von Brunn.

(I'm not feeling sorry for him, just noting.)

121 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:59:01am

re: #117 MandyManners

Because they might have to cover other stories...

122 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:59:02am

re: #109 subsailor68

I hope the public defender's office interviews each of its lawyers before making a decision:

"What's your case win/loss record, Bob?"

"Well, sir, as you know, I came in last in my night school law classes, failed the bar exam seven times, and have never won a single case."

"Good man! Mr. Von Brunn is all yours."

OR ,,, someone like far left attorney Ron Kuby will take the case gratis to prove that even someone as vile as Von Brunn deserves the best defense possible

123 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:59:37am

re: #108 jorline

Good afternoon Hoopster! Who's taking the game tonight?

I'm not sure..If I pick the Magic they will lose..So I'm going Lakers!
No more ball in a week.. I'm bummed.. I may not leave my room for a month..:)
Hi Jorline!

124 soxfan4life  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:00:04am

re: #118 littleoldlady

DistantThunder! :-)

All I heard him say was, "We have to act fast!" and I had to walk away from the TV - fast!

/....stimulus package, anyone?


Well if we didn't act fast with the stimulus bill we would hit 8% unemployment. So I would expect health care companies to crumble after the government intervention.

125 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:00:10am

Mo. family Christmas photo turns up in Czech ad
Jun. 11, 2009 08:21 AM
AP

ST. LOUIS - It's an international mystery: How did a Missouri family's Christmas card photo end up in the Czech Republic, splashed across a huge storefront advertisement?

Danielle Smith said Wednesday that the photo taken of her family last year got sent to family and friends, and was posted on her blog and a few social networking sites. The photo showed her and her husband Jeff holding their two young children.

About 10 days ago, one of Smith's college friends was driving through Prague when he spotted their huge smiling faces in the window of a store specializing in Europeann food. He snapped a few pictures and sent them to a flabbergasted Smith.

"It's a life-size picture in a grocery store window in Prague - my Christmas card photo!" said Smith, 36, who lives in the St. Louis suburb of O'Fallon.

126 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:00:11am

re: #57 Charles

Von Brunn is one of those paleocons who really hates neocons.

You also have to wonder how many "aliases" and socks he has on different conservative sites.

127 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:00:12am

re: #114 jones

Funny you mention the Roman Empire, since among Brunn's comments was the claim that Christianity brought down the Roman Empire - right after claiming that Christianity itself is a hoax.

128 Kragar  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:00:34am

Someone should tell the bastard everything he owns is being liquidated and the proceeds being given to his victim's family and the museum as a donation.

129 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:00:36am

re: #126 Thanos

Bat Puchanan... is that you? /

130 Shug  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:00:37am
The responsible white separatist community

I hold them all responsible

131 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:01:15am

re: #117 MandyManners

Why doesn't he just shut the fuck up already? CNN is STILL carrying it. Fox and MSNBC have stopped.

79% of people who already have insurance, and difficult as it may be, will never be satisfied with a rationed, single payer, fight-over-the scraps, public option. It's bad enough when it's your own pain, but when people's kids are going to be denied for procedures, or have to wait months for surgeries, people will NOT go along with it for long.

132 jones  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:01:17am

re: #127 lawhawk

Yeah, I heard he said that. Kind of clashes with wanting more entitlements.

133 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:01:18am

So Realwest is keeping the prayer list now?

When/why did Goddess get banned? (if it's not too much rehash)

134 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:01:41am

re: #127 lawhawk

Funny you mention the Roman Empire, since among Brunn's comments was the claim that Christianity brought down the Roman Empire -

Isn't that what Gibbon's thesis was in Decline & Fall?

135 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:01:43am

re: #127 lawhawk

Funny you mention the Roman Empire, since among Brunn's comments was the claim that Christianity brought down the Roman Empire - right after claiming that Christianity itself is a hoax.

Right after trumpeting the defense of White Christian Citizens.

136 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:02:14am

The Holocaust Memorial Shooting

Various reactions:

WaPo coverage here.

Mark Blumenthal, the Mystery Pollster, offers a moving personal anecdote in tribute to the Memorial staff and security people.

The Wonkette captures the glee on the left.

And, of course, with the news that a white supremacist shot a security guard at the Holocaust Museum today, many liberal bloggers have noted that their first reaction to the shooting of a human was, “OOH, THOSE REPUBLICANS GOT PWNED FOR WHAT THEY SAID IN APRIL, SUCKAS.”

Matt Yglesias is an example of such delight:

Not a great deal more to say about this right now, but I hope that everyone who mau-maued the Department of Homeland Security for expressing concern about this kind of thing feels appropriately ashamed of themselves.

"This kind of thing"? Which kind of thing was that - 89 year old nut jobs attempting suicide-by-cop (that's my theory, FWIW)?

The critics of the DHS report had two broad themes - the report was nearly fact-free, and it was painted with far too broad a brush, maligning all right wings groups in anticipation of possible bad behavior by a few wackos. If Mr. Yglesias has evidence of prominent critics insisting that there are no right-wing nut jobs at all, we would all be fascinated and enlightened.

A sampling:

Captain Ed:

The DHS fails to provide any specifics at all, preferring instead to smear half of the country or more as kooks for criticizing the government’s handling of the economy. As Eli Lake reports, the DHS has all but declared war on federalism, which used to be the founding concept of our republic...

Michelle Malkin:

By contrast, the piece of crap report issued on April 7 is a sweeping indictment of conservatives. And the intent is clear. As the two spokespeople I talked with on the phone today made clear: They both pinpointed the recent “economic downturn” and the “general state of the economy” for stoking “rightwing extremism.” One of the spokespeople said he was told that the report has been in the works for a year. My b.s. detector went off the chart, and yours will, too, if you read through the entire report — which asserts with no evidence that an unquantified “resurgence in rightwing extremist recruitment and radicalizations activity” is due to home foreclosures, job losses, and…the historical presidential election.

137 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:02:14am

re: #115 callahan23

He was, as to my understanding by no means a paleocon.

I was wondering about this myself. I couldn't identify who or what is a paleocon, but I found the following. Interestingly, the article claims that Christopher Hitchens' brother Peter belongs to this group.

Paleoconservatism

And what about mesoconservatives?

138 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:02:20am

re: #131 DistantThunder

79% of people who already have insurance, and difficult as it may be, will never be satisfied with a rationed, single payer, fight-over-the scraps, public option. It's bad enough when it's your own pain, but when people's kids are going to be denied for procedures, or have to wait months for surgeries, people will NOT go along with it for long.

Here's the People's Cube take on healthcare:
Socialized Healthcare: No Drugs For The Useless!
Remember, lizards, that is a humor site.

139 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:02:42am

re: #125 FurryOldGuyJeans

Maybe because of AwkwardFamilyPhotos.com?

140 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:02:44am

re: #117 MandyManners

Why doesn't he just shut the fuck up already? CNN is STILL carrying it. Fox and MSNBC have stopped.

Someone's forgotten to turn off the teleprompter.

141 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:02:55am

re: #120 EmmmieG

He hated black people, Jews, neocons...

I have a strong feeling that if you dug down deep, the person he hated most was named James von Brunn.

(I'm not feeling sorry for him, just noting.)

1/3 the men his age have dementia. The fact that he had tried to take Paul Volcker hostage single-handedly, in the 1980's, leads me to think he's been mentally unstable for a long time. Criminals are stupid, but unless they are on drugs, they usually aren't completely irrational.

142 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:03:09am

re: #133 eschew_obfuscation

So Realwest is keeping the prayer list now?

When/why did Goddess get banned? (if it's not too much rehash)


Simple..She made a complete 180 degree turn and left us for the Dark Side and stalker blogs..Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

143 VioletTiger  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:03:18am

re: #2 MandyManners

WTF?


Sort of like a lump of limberger cheese telling the sweaty socks to go away you make us smell bad.

144 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:03:24am

re: #131 DistantThunder

79% of people who already have insurance, and difficult as it may be, will never be satisfied with a rationed, single payer, fight-over-the scraps, public option. It's bad enough when it's your own pain, but when people's kids are going to be denied for procedures, or have to wait months for surgeries, people will NOT go along with it for long.

The ppl want this. It'll be 10 yrs till they realize this will result in rationing. This is probably a done deal this time.

145 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:03:54am

re: #123 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure..If I pick the Magic they will lose..So I'm going Lakers!
No more ball in a week.. I'm bummed.. I may not leave my room for a month..:)
Hi Jorline!

Don't like the WNBA?

146 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:04:17am

re: #48 subsailor68

LOL! Years ago, just to be sarcastic, I did ask a girl that. She replied, "slippery when wet."

We dated for quite awhile!

;-)

A True Squid!
/h

147 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:04:18am

re: #142 HoosierHoops

Simple..She made a complete 180 degree turn and left us for the Dark Side and stalker blogs..Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

thanks....wow! What causes people to do that? (partially rhetorical)

148 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:05:15am

re: #142 HoosierHoops

Simple..She made a complete 180 degree turn and left us for the Dark Side and stalker blogs..Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

Wow! I had no idea.

149 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:05:17am

re: #136 Ben Hur

The Holocaust Memorial Shooting

Various reactions:

The Wonkette captures the glee on the left.

And, of course, with the news that a white supremacist shot a security guard at the Holocaust Museum today, many liberal bloggers have noted that their first reaction to the shooting of a human was, “OOH, THOSE REPUBLICANS GOT PWNED FOR WHAT THEY SAID IN APRIL, SUCKAS.”

Matt Yglesias is an example of such delight:

Not a great deal more to say about this right now, but I hope that everyone who mau-maued the Department of Homeland Security for expressing concern about this kind of thing feels appropriately ashamed of themselves.

Glee? Are they fucking kidding me? What a bunch of sick fucks. 'Scuse my language.

150 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:05:20am

re: #127 lawhawk

Funny you mention the Roman Empire, since among Brunn's comments was the claim that Christianity brought down the Roman Empire - right after claiming that Christianity itself is a hoax.

Is he one of those who claims Christianity is a Jewish invention to take over the world?

151 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:05:34am

re: #144 unrealizedviewpoint

The ppl want this. It'll be 10 yrs till they realize this will result in rationing. This is probably a done deal this time.

Even some health care providers are so sick of dealing with the insurance companies that they think government health care will be better.
Wait until they find out.

152 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:05:37am
The Wonkette captures the glee on the left.

And, of course, with the news that a white supremacist shot a security guard at the Holocaust Museum today, many liberal bloggers have noted that their first reaction to the shooting of a human was, “OOH, THOSE REPUBLICANS GOT PWNED FOR WHAT THEY SAID IN APRIL, SUCKAS.”

Matt Yglesias is an example of such delight:

Not a great deal more to say about this right now, but I hope that everyone who mau-maued the Department of Homeland Security for expressing concern about this kind of thing feels appropriately ashamed of themselves.

153 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:06:06am

re: #142 HoosierHoops

Simple..She made a complete 180 degree turn and left us for the Dark Side and stalker blogs..Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

When was that?

154 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:06:27am

re: #141 DistantThunder

Maybe this is what happens when paranoid schizophrenia meets dementia.

155 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:06:37am

re: #150 MandyManners

Didn't get that far into his sick twisted thought... But I'm sure that the level of coherence doesn't improve the more you read him.

156 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:06:39am

re: #142 HoosierHoops

Simple..She made a complete 180 degree turn and left us for the Dark Side and stalker blogs..Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

Um, did you just call goddessoftheclassroom trash?

The person who painstakingly kept a list of those in need of prayer?

Because she decided to post at another blog?

157 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:06:52am
Matt Yglesias is an example of such delight:

Not a great deal more to say about this right now, but I hope that everyone who mau-maued the Department of Homeland Security for expressing concern about this kind of thing feels appropriately ashamed of themselves.

That sounds so......familiar.

158 littleoldlady  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:06:56am

re: #124 soxfan4life

Well if we didn't act fast with the stimulus bill we would hit 8% unemployment. So I would expect health care companies to crumble after the government intervention.

That, and I predict the whole mess will cost far more than the administration predicts, bankrupting us way faster than doing nothing would have done.

Is there another planet available for me to live on?

AHEM! 9.4%? and I think yesterday 3wood said that the actual percentage of unemployed/underemployed is over 16%!

159 rightside  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:07:14am

re: #153 Creeping Eruption

Mid-May. She signed up over there, made some posts, she was verified as GOTM, and blocked.

160 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:07:36am

About 10% of the population goes without adequate preventative healthcare. And in the guise of attempting to solve this problem, Øbama will screw up a system that works for the majority, 90%.

161 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:07:50am

Enough about Von Brunn, how about some Bruno?

162 Mauser  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:08:31am

re: #57 Charles

Von Brunn is one of those paleocons who really hates neocons.

Nutbars like this are so far gone from sanity, it's a mistake to attach him to ANY rational ideology. Which of course why the leftist media instantly jumped to the task of attaching him to the right.

HE IS NOT ONE OF OURS! I can't think of a single aspect of his ideology that is a proper part of Conservatism, Paleo- OR Neo-.

And yet, the Narrative is so deeply ingrained in our collective consciousness that even here, people are just rolling over and accepting the idea that he is a "Right Wing" nut, which is just an ongoing slander against us born from the Left.

(I mean, seriously, is it the Right Wing that stages pro-Palestinian protests on the streets of Berkeley?)

Anyway, I think we need to check ourselves and not allow the left to pin this guy on us.

163 Shug  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:08:31am

re: #160 unrealizedviewpoint

About 10% of the population goes without adequate preventative healthcare. And in the guise of attempting to solve this problem, Øbama will screw up a system that works for the majority, 90%.

not to mention that many of them choose to not have coverage

164 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:08:34am

re: #159 rightside

Mid-May. She signed up over there, made some posts, she was verified as GOTM, and blocked.

Thats too bad. Didn't realize. I wasn't around much in May.

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:09:22am

IIRC, the problem was that people at that blog have used access to this blog to mess around with it before, and consequently Charles cut off access.

166 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:09:25am

re: #153 Creeping Eruption

When was that?

Last month...I'm still steamed at her..I thought she had more class than to hang with those low lifes at LGF2.
She said she had to follow her heart..So there ya go.. That's her heart..weighed, measured and found wanting.

167 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:09:31am

re: #163 Shug

not to mention that many of them choose to not have coverage

Try to make that concept sink into the mind of a liberal. Impossible!

168 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:09:34am

re: #150 MandyManners

Is he one of those who claims Christianity is a Jewish invention to take over the world?

He's one who tailors his nutball message to the venue. He would get along real well with Williamson from SSPX for instance, but not other modern Christian institutions. They've been taken over etc.

169 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:09:51am

re: #150 MandyManners

Is he one of those who claims Christianity is a Jewish invention to take over the world?

Yes, I read that at FrontPageMag, something I'd never heard of before.

Shooter: Christian-hating socialist

Although the hate crimes industry lumps neo-Nazis and White Nationalists in with the “Religious Right” – and occasionally, FrontPage Magazine, the better to smear you with – few Americans realize the true believers are not merely non-Christian but anti-Christian. Like their predecessors, they trace Aryan downfall to “culture distorters” (guess who?) – and among the largest “distortion” is the replacement of warlike Germanic gods with Jesus Christ, the Messiah promised by the Jewish Scriptures. Von Brunn dedicated Kill the Best Gentiles to the late professor Revilo P. Oliver. Typical of Nazis, past and present, Oliver branded Christianity a “Jewish cult” and “spiritual syphilis.” Brunn’s follows suit. He shuns the words of the Bible, exhorting his readers: “Remember, these delusions of grandeur were written by HEBREWS about themselves. Megalomaniacs of such magnitude generally are manic-depressives confined to insane asylums.” (p. 31.) His distaste for their Deity could hardly be more evident:

JEHOVAH, like Alley Oop, says whatever the scriptwriters print in the blurbs. Those who find it compelling to believe Yahweh created a flat earth, circa 5000 B.C., spoke from a burning bush, bared his buttocks, parted the Red Sea, and loves JEWS above all other nations, share a childish credulity with those who believe millions of JEWS died in German gas-chambers. It also confirms JEWISH conviction that Gentiles are stupid sheep. It makes one want to puke. (p. 32.)

Having vilified the Father, he turns his focus to the Son. “Jesus (if he did exist),” Von Brunn wrote, “was born in Galilee (‘Unclean Land of the Gentiles’).” (p. 57.) In a post on the appropriately named website Antichrist.net, Von Brunn expanded on the reason Saul of Tarsus, a former rabbi, would become the chief apostle of this religion to the Gentiles:
170 Shug  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:10:08am

re: #167 unrealizedviewpoint

Try to make that concept sink into the mind of a liberal. Impossible!

In Obama's America you don't choose healthcare

Healthcare chooses you !

171 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:10:37am

re: #166 HoosierHoops

Last month...I'm still steamed at her..I thought she had more class than to hang with those low lifes at LGF2.
She said she had to follow her heart..So there ya go.. That's her heart..weighed, measured and found wanting.

LGF2? LOL. Thats still around?

172 neocon hippie  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:10:58am

Speaking of recent bannings, what happened with Pastorius? And how about Mama Winger, who I know has left and then returned in the past?

173 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:11:08am

re: #156 loppyd

Um, did you just call goddessoftheclassroom trash?

The person who painstakingly kept a list of those in need of prayer?

Because she decided to post at another blog?

No, she was not called "trash". The "trash" is the junk that is commonly posted over there, day-in and day-out. Read their comments every so often. It's like wading through a sewer after everyone's flushed at the same time.

I don't know why she chose to post there. All I can say is that there are some very nasty people there who earned their bannings. A couple of them run the blog: Rodan and Savage. Remember them?

174 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:11:18am

re: #169 DistantThunder

Nazis.. I really hate those guys.

175 rightside  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:12:15am

re: #171 Creeping Eruption

Like jimmah carter.

176 Shug  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:12:54am

re: #166 HoosierHoops

Last month...I'm still steamed at her..I thought she had more class than to hang with those low lifes at LGF2.
She said she had to follow her heart..So there ya go.. That's her heart..weighed, measured and found wanting.

me too.
Frankly, I'm puzzled by it.
Agree or disagree with Charles about this issue or that issue. Fine.
But looking at the character of him vs the lowdown skunks that run that stalker blog, I see no comparison.
Walk away from LGF if you disagree. That doesn't mean you go associate with some vile creatures.
She had me on her prayer list once, and I am grateful for that.
I wish she'd chosen a different place to comment

177 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:13:07am

re: #171 Creeping Eruption

LGF2? LOL. Thats still around?

Yeah, they're still around, but AtS had a very strange message this morning: "GCP is permanently offline."

178 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:14:10am

re: #115 callahan23

He was, as to my understanding by no means a paleocon.

I'm sorry -- it's utterly absurd to try to claim that Von Brunn is a "leftist." I think Kathy Shaidle needs to get a grip and stop spinning that line of BS, because it's painfully obvious.

179 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:14:30am

Monumental stupidity from Rush....
Limbaugh on the Holocaust Museum drama : It's Obama's fault
I know it's a koskidz diary but listen to the audio. Unless this is really out of context or edited this is really bad.

180 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:14:33am

re: #137 John Neverbend

I was wondering about this myself. I couldn't identify who or what is a paleocon, but I found the following. Interestingly, the article claims that Christopher Hitchens' brother Peter belongs to this group.

Paleoconservatism

And what about mesoconservatives?

The Mesoconservatives were eroded away by the Creationist Flood, resulting in the Mesoconservative Discontinuity.
/s

181 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:14:50am

re: #149 doppelganglander

Glee? Are they fucking kidding me? What a bunch of sick fucks. 'Scuse my language.

You're excused, but did you really expect anything else from people who have decided that it's passe to use their critical faculties?

182 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:15:18am

re: #178 Charles


I'm sorry -- it's utterly absurd to try to claim that Von Brunn is a "leftist." I think Kathy Shaidle needs to get a grip and stop spinning that line of BS, because it's painfully obvious.


I think that's going to be the right wing talking point. Listen to the Rush audio on #179.

183 Dave the.....  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:15:56am
Monumental stupidity from Rush....
Limbaugh on the Holocaust Museum drama : It's Obama's fault
I know it's a koskidz diary but listen to the audio. Unless this is really out of context or edited this is really bad.

Can you summerize it?

184 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:16:14am

Paleocons are the lowest form on the political spectrum. If you have the stomach for it, check out the wrongly named The American Conservative Magazine website. Outside of its anti immigration articles it reads like The Village Voice.

185 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:16:25am

re: #173 Honorary Yooper

No, she was not called "trash". The "trash" is the junk that is commonly posted over there, day-in and day-out. Read their comments every so often. It's like wading through a sewer after everyone's flushed at the same time.

I don't know why she chose to post there. All I can say is that there are some very nasty people there who earned their bannings. A couple of them run the blog: Rodan and Savage. Remember them?

You said this:
Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

I take that statement to imply that she is trash. A statement which I strongly disagree with.

As for posting on other sites, you would find it interesting to know that some here used to post regularly at what is now referred to as the "original stalker site" - but you wouldn't know because that was before "The Awakening."

186 Mauser  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:16:46am

re: #158 littleoldlady

AHEM! 9.4%? and I think yesterday 3wood said that the actual percentage of unemployed/underemployed is over 16%!

No no, it's only when a Republican is in office that the Unemployment figures are too low, and don't count the people who have given up.

When a Democrat is in office, people who aren't looking for work don't count as Unemployed.

187 theheat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:17:08am

re: #6 calvin coolidge

I found it very irritating that headlines have read White Supremacist, Neo-Nazi, etc., talked to his ex-wife, and very quickly delved into this guy's past and associations, warning the public of the dangers of radicalism.

Same thing with the Tiller murder; the media showed the killer's associations to radical anti-abortion groups, went into Tiller's history and how many attempts had been made on his life, and tried to flush out the background of the story.

However, in the case of the recruitment office shooting, only casual mention is made of Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad's conversion to Islam, and certainly nothing about any radical anti-Western jihadi bullshit he's probably been feeding off. No one will touch it. Nobody's going there. Nobody has talked about the house with the white picket fence where he grew up, or any ex-girlfriends, schoolmates, the wackos he hung out with - nothing.

The memorial center murder and the recruiting office murder are very similar. Don't hold your breath expecting the media to draw any parallels.

188 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:17:09am

re: #182 Killgore Trout

I think that's going to be the right wing talking point. Listen to the Rush audio on #179.

Wait until Charles sees #169.

189 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:17:24am

re: #151 Kosh's Shadow

Even some health care providers are so sick of dealing with the insurance companies that they think government health care will be better.
Wait until they find out.

My father, a retired physician, is one of them. And he has compelling arguments for his position.

Unfortunately his and many other doctors' first choice, a single-payer health system, is not even being discussed by the so-called reformers. Respected physicians who tried to speak about it were forcibly ejected from the Senate hearings. The Chairman oh-so-democratically refused to give any time at all to the proposal of these experienced doctors.

The members of the "reform" movement in Congress are bought-and-paid-for insurance "industry" shills. The most we're going to get is tinkering around the edges of a failed system, with the guaranteed result that the failure will be even bigger in future. We will continue to pay twice as much in GDP percentage terms for half as much as other countries get. America will continue to be the milch cow of the pharmaceuticals business, while people elsewhere get medicines at reasonable cost because the governments negotiate reimbursement rates. Canada will continue to have lower infant mortality than the US because of their emphasis on preventive medicine. England will still have the NHS, with which most citizens are quite satisfied, and no politician who would suggest that they go to the American "model" (read: shambles, in the sense of abattoir) stands a chance of election.

We'll be lucky to get some protection against cherry-picking and a few paltry tax credits to pay for crappy policies that disappear when we need them.

190 zombie  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:17:56am
De Nugent called von Brunn a genius but described the shooting as the act of “a loner and a hothead.”

A genius! He's a genius, I tell you!

Oh, by the way -- he's a nut and I hate him!

191 freetoken  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:18:23am

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Monumental stupidity from Rush....
Limbaugh on the Holocaust Museum drama : It's Obama's fault

Seen around various righty-o-sphere locales, that theme (that Obama drove Von Brunn to execute his plan) is getting play.

Absurd it is... but that hasn't stopped anyone before.

192 Shug  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:19:18am

Is Alex Jones right wing?

I generally ignore his insane rants so I don't know .
If he gunned down a bunch of folks would they call him a right winger, far right, paranoid schizophrenic, what?

193 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:19:44am

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Monumental stupidity from Rush....
Limbaugh on the Holocaust Museum drama : It's Obama's fault
I know it's a koskidz diary but listen to the audio. Unless this is really out of context or edited this is really bad.

Has anybody actually blamed it on Rush or other talk-show hosts? I haven't yet seen such accusations, but I do know that some were anticipating them.

194 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:19:50am

re: #188 haakondahl

Ugh, it seems pretty clear that this is the agreed talking point. Completely divorced from reality.

195 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:19:52am

re: #67 John Neverbend

The article goes on to say that Von Schwanzkopf attacked "Jews-Neocons-Bill O'Reilly". So, if there's still finger-pointing to be done, I wonder who'll be blamed for this appalling action.

I have this mental image of Von Brunn as a man vibrating in perpetual rage and hatred of just about everyone and everything.

How he must have loathed himself.

196 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:20:18am

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Monumental stupidity from Rush....
Limbaugh on the Holocaust Museum drama : It's Obama's fault
I know it's a koskidz diary but listen to the audio. Unless this is really out of context or edited this is really bad.

He also went semi nirther in one of his "comedy rants" yesterday. Neither messiah has a birth cert or something to that effect.

197 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:20:41am

re: #178 Charles

Von Brunn's true ideology was hatred, hatred and hatred. At any given time, his specific views might have come from the right, the left or somewhere else entirely. People are missing the point when they attempt to assign a political taxonomy to this nutter.

198 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:20:46am

re: #165 EmmmieG

IIRC, the problem was that people at that blog have used access to this blog to mess around with it before, and consequently Charles cut off access.

There was a strange post this morning. #533 on the over night open. The poster wasn't in the LGF register. Any one figure that out?

199 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:21:28am

re: #192 Shug

Is Alex Jones right wing?

I generally ignore his insane rants so I don't know .
If he gunned down a bunch of folks would they call him a right winger, far right, paranoid schizophrenic, what?

Yes, he's paleo right wing, an outgrowth of the early 80's Ruff survivalists

200 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:21:34am

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Monumental stupidity from Rush....
Limbaugh on the Holocaust Museum drama : It's Obama's fault
I know it's a koskidz diary but listen to the audio. Unless this is really out of context or edited this is really bad.

Definately part of it.

I have gay friends who 100% believe that having a Rep pres like Reagan or Bush contributes to anti-Gay crime because of some perceived empowerment.

Obama is 100% contributing to the world wise rise of anti-Semitism by putting the onus on the Jews.

201 rightside  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:21:36am

re: #196 Thanos

Amazing. I listened to it, and it was no such thing. What kind of device do you listen to him on?

202 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:21:55am

re: #192 Shug

Is Alex Jones right wing?

I generally ignore his insane rants so I don't know .
If he gunned down a bunch of folks would they call him a right winger, far right, paranoid schizophrenic, what?

He was anti-Bush during Pres. Bush's administration.

203 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:21:57am

re: #181 John Neverbend

You're excused, but did you really expect anything else from people who have decided that it's passe to use their critical faculties?

My foolishness, I suppose, in expecting simple human decency that transcends politics when an innocent life is lost.

204 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:22:09am

re: #192 Shug

Is Alex Jones right wing?

Yeah, he's part of the wacky libertarian thing. They go so far to the right that they're near the moronic convergence so there's some cross over with anarchists.

205 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:22:14am

re: #200 Ben Hur

Definately part of it.

I have gay friends who 100% believe that having a Rep pres like Reagan or Bush contributes to anti-Gay crime because of some perceived empowerment.

Obama is 100% contributing to the world wise rise of anti-Semitism by putting the onus on the Jews.

THat's my take. I didn't listen to the audio.

206 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:22:18am

Did Keith Olbermann make Von Brunn "Worst Person in the World" or did he make it Bill O'Reilly for the 2,572, 111 time.

207 Outrider  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:22:27am
“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”


Of course nothing said about the victim, location, or the act itself; only that it made the rest of the bigots look bad.

208 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:22:27am

re: #198 KenJen

There was a strange post this morning. #533 on the over night open. The poster wasn't in the LGF register. Any one figure that out?

Never mind. It's fixed.

209 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:22:52am

re: #183 Dave the.....

Can you Summer-ize it?


Killgore will Spring into action! Don't Fall, Killgore!
/h

210 Shug  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:22:56am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

Yeah, he's part of the wacky libertarian thing. They go so far to the right that they're near the moronic convergence so there's some cross over with anarchists.

that's what I guessed.

211 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:23:21am

re: #200 Ben Hur

Sorry, had to downding that one. I'm not even going to debate it.

212 Mauser  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:23:23am

re: #174 lawhawk

Nazis.. I really hate those guys.

gah! Where's that from? The Reference is just on the tip of my tongue.... Tell me so I can properly hate myself for not knowing it....

213 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:23:25am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

Yeah, he's part of the wacky libertarian thing. They go so far to the right that they're near the moronic convergence so there's some cross over with anarchists.

I think he's pure moron, but that's because every time I see a quote from him, it's so idiotic that I can't discern any coherent ideology.

214 avanti  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:23:27am

re: #58 MandyManners

What's so freakin' genius about shooting up a museum and killing a guard?

Well, he got to kill a black guard that opened the door for him and that will earn him some points with his friends.

215 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:23:34am

re: #185 loppyd

You said this:
Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

I take that statement to imply that she is trash. A statement which I strongly disagree with.

As for posting on other sites, you would find it interesting to know that some here used to post regularly at what is now referred to as the "original stalker site" - but you wouldn't know because that was before "The Awakening."


Well LoppyD I didn't mean to imply she was trash per se...maybe an unfortunate choice of words..
Let me make this perfectly clear..
I raised 5 kids.. I taught them you are who you hang with...The Internet is a big place.. there are a million blogs..But to hang with the vilest creatures in cyberspace insults me..I know she is better than that... I'm sorry for her...
And not to upset you...Prayer lists don't mean shit without a pure heart.. Fucking Nazi's went to church every sunday.. You don't get extra credit for a prayer list....
Sorry LoppyD.. I don't want you to be upset... At least Savage_Nation is her new and improved prayer list.

216 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:24:16am

re: #201 rightside

Amazing. I listened to it, and it was no such thing. What kind of device do you listen to him on?

I didn't listen, I read it somewhere. Let me look it back up. brb

217 subsailor68  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:24:39am

re: #212 Mauser

gah! Where's that from? The Reference is just on the tip of my tongue.... Tell me so I can properly hate myself for not knowing it....

I think it's Indiana Jones.

218 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:24:50am

re: #211 Killgore Trout

Sorry, had to downding that one. I'm not even going to debate it.


Which part?

The part about Republican Presidents contributing to anti-let activists to take action, or the part about the undeniable shift against Jews and Israel?

219 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:24:52am

re: #199 Thanos

Alex Jones is certifiably paranoid. He rages against anything and anybody., left, right & center. The left-right political taxonomy does not apply to people like him.

220 rightside  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:25:01am

re: #216 Thanos

Just as I suspected. No need to look it up.

221 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #57 Charles

Von Brunn is one of those paleocons who really hates neocons.

They all do.

222 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:25:17am

anti-let = anti-left

223 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:25:47am

re: #221 medaura18586

They all do.

Yes, because neocon is (among other things) code for "Jew".

224 Dave the.....  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:05am
Seen around various righty-o-sphere locales, that theme (that Obama drove Von Brunn to execute his plan) is getting play.

You could make that arguement, but that's like saying Rev MLK caused the Birmingham church bombing.

But in this case, it seems we have an 89 year old racist who finally talked himself into acting out his hate.

225 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:07am

re: #212 Mauser

gah! Where's that from? The Reference is just on the tip of my tongue.... Tell me so I can properly hate myself for not knowing it....

Indiana Jones, I think.

226 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #208 KenJen

Never mind. It's fixed.

I just clicked that avatar (and double-checked it after seeing this post of yours.) It's still showing up as not-in-the-registry.

hmmmm

227 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:10am

Rabbi: Obama Creating Climate of Hate against Jews

Rabbi Dr. Morton H. Pomerantz is a member of the Reform movement of Judaism and serves as a chaplain for the State of New York. A former Navy and Marine Corps officer and chaplain, he has also served as deputy national chaplain for the Jewish War Veterans of the United States.


Our new president did not tell a virulent anti-Semite to travel to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington to kill Jews, but he is most certainly creating a climate of hate against us.

It is no coincidence that we are witnessing this level of hatred toward Jews as President Barack Obama positions America against the Jewish state.

Just days ago Obama traveled to Cairo, Egypt. It was his second trip in a short time to visit Muslim countries. He sent a clear message by not visiting Israel.

But this was code.

But Rev. Wright thinks it's the jews keeping him away from Obama.

228 Shug  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:20am

do any of you know any illuminati?

what does one look like?

I'd love to see one some time.

229 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:24am

re: #196 Thanos

re: #201 rightside

Rush Limbaugh: "Illustrating absurdity by being absurd".
I heard the "Nirther" riff. Rush made a joke that God and Obama both don't have a birth certificate. Humor. Heh. He (Rush) also said, the difference between the two is that God does NOT think he's Obama.
/heh

230 ointmentfly  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:43am

Right wing, left wing, paleocon, neocon.... who cares. These are all nifty little liberal names to lump groups together in order for the MFM to politically jettison groups to the fringe or consolidate them into a powerbase to get an empty suit like Obama elected.

231 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:27:46am

To claim that Rush Limbaugh and conservative talk radio is responsible for the shooting yesterday is absurd. Conservative talk radio is universally pro Israel and if you want to hear Jew hatred go check on Air (Head) America (if you can find it).

232 rightside  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:28:13am

re: #229 NelsFree

I know, I listened as he did it. It was a joke.

233 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:28:16am

re: #195 Dianna

I have this mental image of Von Brunn as a man vibrating in perpetual rage and hatred of just about everyone and everything.

How he must have loathed himself.

Neighbors said he'd be normal one minute, and then have bizarre outburst of anger.

234 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:28:25am

re: #133 eschew_obfuscation

So Realwest is keeping the prayer list now?

When/why did Goddess get banned? (if it's not too much rehash)

She went over to the dark side.

235 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:28:30am

re: #212 Mauser

gah! Where's that from? The Reference is just on the tip of my tongue.... Tell me so I can properly hate myself for not knowing it....


Indiana Jones, in...
"Raiders of the Lost Ark"

236 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:29:02am

re: #229 NelsFree

re: #201 rightside

Rush Limbaugh: "Illustrating absurdity by being absurd".
I heard the "Nirther" riff. Rush made a joke that God and Obama both don't have a birth certificate. Humor. Heh. He (Rush) also said, the difference between the two is that God does NOT think he's Obama.
/heh

Didn't Evan Thomas of Newsweek Magazine say the other day on CNN that Obama "is like God"?

237 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:29:03am

re: #233 DistantThunder

Neighbors said he'd be normal one minute, and then have bizarre outburst of anger.

That's not normal, ever.

238 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:29:45am

re: #227 DistantThunder

Rabbi: Obama Creating Climate of Hate against Jews


But Rev. Wright thinks it's the jews keeping him away from Obama.

For the record, I am not Rabbi Dr. Morton H. Pomerantz.

239 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:30:05am

re: #191 freetoken

Seen around various righty-o-sphere locales, that theme (that Obama drove Von Brunn to execute his plan) is getting play.

Absurd it is... but that hasn't stopped anyone before.

I've seen that too, and also the rumblings that Von Brunn is also somehow a 'liberal' or 'left'. Usually linked with some babbling from the Jonah Goldberg school of "but liberals are the real fascists".

Another example is Debbie Schlussel, who is claiming that Muslims, Obama and multiculturalism are somehow to blame for Von Brunn.

Lot of wackiness out there.

240 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:30:07am

re: #228 Shug

do any of you know any illuminati?

what does one look like?

I'd love to see one some time.

I once knew a guy who was rumored to have had an operation in Tibet to open the "third eye".

Oddly enough, one of his real eyes was glass due to an accident.

Other than that, he looked just like any other well-paid professor.

But his daughter grew up to be Uma Thurman. Now there's luminosity.

241 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:30:11am

re: #201 rightside

Amazing. I listened to it, and it was no such thing. What kind of device do you listen to him on?

242 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:30:29am

re: #236 Joel

Didn't Evan Thomas of Newsweek Magazine say the other day on CNN that Obama "is like God"?

That's right. If you compare Obama to God because you like him, it's good journalism. But if you mock those who compare Obama to God, then you're a hater.

243 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:30:44am

re: #215 HoosierHoops

Well LoppyD I didn't mean to imply she was trash per se...maybe an unfortunate choice of words..
Let me make this perfectly clear..
I raised 5 kids.. I taught them you are who you hang with...The Internet is a big place.. there are a million blogs..But to hang with the vilest creatures in cyberspace insults me..I know she is better than that... I'm sorry for her...
And not to upset you...Prayer lists don't mean shit without a pure heart.. Fucking Nazi's went to church every sunday.. You don't get extra credit for a prayer list....
Sorry LoppyD.. I don't want you to be upset... At least Savage_Nation is her new and improved prayer list.

You have no standing to know what is in her heart. Or that of anyone else.

Do you think Irish Rose has a pure heart for starting a "hit list" blog?

How about Sharmuta, the biggest pants on fire liar on this blog?

244 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:31:07am

re: #228 Shug

do any of you know any illuminati?

what does one look like?

I'd love to see one some time.

I have two in the Kitchen so I don't trip when I make a midnight snack run...oh, wait, those are night lights.
/

245 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:31:07am
246 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:31:15am

Rightside, I recommend q-tips or one of those earwax cleaning kits.

247 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:31:33am

re: #212 Mauser

gah! Where's that from? The Reference is just on the tip of my tongue.... Tell me so I can properly hate myself for not knowing it....

Inidana Jones [Harrison Ford] Raiders of the Lost Ark

248 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:31:40am

re: #236 Joel

Didn't Evan Thomas of Newsweek Magazine say the other day on CNN that Obama "is like God"?

Yes.

Did he mention that Bush was the devil in the same sentence?

249 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:31:53am

re: #191 freetoken

Seen around various righty-o-sphere locales, that theme (that Obama drove Von Brunn to execute his plan) is getting play.

Well, a lot of people on the right argue by saying the worst thing they can think of about their opponents and losing, instead of sticking to what is true and perhaps -- gasp! -- winning.

250 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:31:57am

re: #237 Kenneth

That's not normal, ever.

I'll clarify: His speech would be appropriate for the conversation with neighbors , and then he would have bizarre outbursts of rage, in other words, poor emotional self-regulation.

251 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:32:04am

"IT MAKES US LOOK BAD"
Oh! That's what it was...........
////////////

252 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:32:13am

re: #236 Joel

Didn't Evan Thomas of Newsweek Magazine say the other day on CNN that Obama "is like God"?

Newsweek and CNN are both such a waste of my time, I could not answer that for you.

253 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:32:46am

re: #215 HoosierHoops

Well LoppyD I didn't mean to imply she was trash per se...maybe an unfortunate choice of words..
Let me make this perfectly clear..
I raised 5 kids.. I taught them you are who you hang with...The Internet is a big place.. there are a million blogs..But to hang with the vilest creatures in cyberspace insults me..I know she is better than that... I'm sorry for her...

She posts on The Daily Kos?

254 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:32:48am

re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I just clicked that avatar (and double-checked it after seeing this post of yours.) It's still showing up as not-in-the-registry.

hmmmm

re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I just clicked that avatar (and double-checked it after seeing this post of yours.) It's still showing up as not-in-the-registry.

hmmmm

I just checked it thru my recent comments . The avatar shows an alien from Star Wars-I think. Registered since 2004. 832 comments. Karma 19 and a link to a blog.

255 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:32:55am

re: #239 iceweasel

Another example is Debbie Schlussel, who is claiming that Muslims, Obama and multiculturalism are somehow to blame for Von Brunn.

I think her point was that the white power anti-Semites are riding the wave of Muslim anti-Semitism which has been, and is the most prolific and tolerated anti-Semitism out there.

256 buster  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:04am

I remember being enthralled by the stories my Grandparents told. Tales of delivering ice to apartment buildings in Chicago, from one Grandfather to harvesting ice from from a Northern Indiana lake, from another. One served in WWII and liberated a concentration camp. Their experiences growing up poor, challenged by depression and war, made them wise and compassionate. I wish they were still around. I never conceived of elderly folks being so full of hate and rage. I just did not think it possible. Another childhood belief shattered.

257 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:07am

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

Funny, I don't recall the part of the Bible where G-d "bares his buttocks."

I guess you missed hebrew school that day or snuck out to the gym?

258 lobo91  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:08am

re: #236 Joel

Didn't Evan Thomas of Newsweek Magazine say the other day on CNN that Obama "is like God"?

It was on Hardball, which is on CNBC, I believe. Or maybe MSNBC.

259 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:22am

re: #242 Kenneth

That's right. If you compare Obama to God because you like him, it's good journalism. But if you mock those who compare Obama to God, then you're a hater.

Ok,....I see where this is going...they're always right....the opposition is always wrong.

260 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:35am

re: #228 Shug

do any of you know any illuminati?

what does one look like?

I'd love to see one some time.

They're very bright.

261 Mauser  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:44am

re: #217 subsailor68

I think it's Indiana Jones.

That seemed too obvious.... But thanks everyone.

262 Dave the.....  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:56am

Most of you probably recall that many on the left blamed Rush for the Oklahoma City bombing.

Where I was living then....the local paper carried the cartoon....ummm is it Funky Wiener..something....and one Sunday the cartoon was one large panel blaming Rush for the bombing.

263 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:33:58am

re: #197 Kenneth

Von Brunn's true ideology was hatred, hatred and hatred. At any given time, his specific views might have come from the right, the left or somewhere else entirely. People are missing the point when they attempt to assign a political taxonomy to this nutter.

That's true to an extent, but his views were far more to the right than the left. Just read some of his "articles" published online. He rants against liberals and the political views he does sympathize with are right wing -- Ron Paul, etc.

It's accurate to call him a "right wing extremist."

I honestly don't see how any honest commentator can try to claim that Von Brunn is a leftist. It's just wrong.

264 rightside  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:34:01am

re: #246 Thanos

No thanks, I hear just fine. I don't make statements based on what mediamatters says. I listen for myself, and make up my own mind.

Good day.

265 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:34:24am
266 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:34:24am

re: #198 KenJen

There was a strange post this morning. #533 on the over night open. The poster wasn't in the LGF register. Any one figure that out?

This lizardoid's name does not seem to exist in the LGF repository.

267 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:34:35am

re: #250 DistantThunder

I know what you mean. If that anger bursts out during a "normal" conversation, you have to stop and think what was going on inside his head all the time. That's why arguments over whether he was a leftist or a right-winger are ridiculous. What he is, is a paranoid psychotic full of hatred.

268 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:34:36am

re: #233 DistantThunder

Neighbors said he'd be normal one minute, and then have bizarre outburst of anger.

I think it might be in the article that Charles just posted-- but I read something last night about neighbours who invited him over for a drink recently and he started in on some Holocaust denial rant out of the blue.

269 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:34:48am

re: #243 loppyd

May I respectfully suggest that you take it outside? Talking about one ex-Lizard is pointless enough. Throwing multiple roundhouse punches at current Lizards is close to having a tantrum.

If you have a beef with someone here, take it up with that person one-on-one. I've done it plenty. Charles may ask you to shut up - he did so with me once. Otherwise you and your target can duke it out while your soup gets cold. But don't start with the blanket denunciations. It's bad form.

270 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:34:50am
“The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.”

We condemn this attack, and all attacks on civilians. These types of attacks only damage the Palestinian cause........

271 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:35:09am

re: #252 NelsFree

Newsweek and CNN are both such a waste of my time, I could not answer that for you.

I have not looked at Newsweek and Time in over 15 years. Their Israel hatred is what did it for me, amongst other sins too numerous to list. As for CNN I cannot stand that disgusting, nasty, alcoholic Jack Cafferty and that panty waste Wolfie Blitzer.

272 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:35:15am

re: #240 Cato the Elder

I once knew a guy who was rumored to have had an operation in Tibet to open the "third eye".

Oddly enough, one of his real eyes was glass due to an accident.

Other than that, he looked just like any other well-paid professor.

But his daughter grew up to be Uma Thurman. Now there's luminosity.

So she's Illumi-naughty?

273 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:35:18am

re: #260 Gang of One

They're very bright.

But do they belong to Mensa?

274 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:35:44am

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

Funny, I don't recall the part of the Bible where G-d "bares his buttocks."

It's in the special version that this guy rewrote, apparently...

275 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:36:16am

re: #156 loppyd

Um, did you just call goddessoftheclassroom trash?

The person who painstakingly kept a list of those in need of prayer?

Because she decided to post at another blog?

Not at just another blog. The stalker blog that is composed of the trash and riff-raff that has been Stinkesized.

Do you think she went over there to "save" them, like the proverbial preacher caught in the whorehouse.

276 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:36:21am

re: #269 Cato the Elder

May I respectfully suggest that you take it outside? Talking about one ex-Lizard is pointless enough. Throwing multiple roundhouse punches at current Lizards is close to having a tantrum.

If you have a beef with someone here, take it up with that person one-on-one. I've done it plenty. Charles may ask you to shut up - he did so with me once. Otherwise you and your target can duke it out while your soup gets cold. But don't start with the blanket denunciations. It's bad form.

All I'm saying is if HH is the arbiter of purity, then he must live by his words.

277 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:36:35am

re: #263 Charles

That's true to an extent, but his views were far more to the right than the left. Just read some of his "articles" published online. He rants against liberals and the political views he does sympathize with are right wing -- Ron Paul, etc.

It's accurate to call him a "right wing extremist."

I honestly don't see how any honest commentator can try to claim that Von Brunn is a leftist. It's just wrong.

Absolutely, yet this is the meme we're seeing taking off. In many ways I believe it's an attempt to deflect embarrassment and shame over failing to take the DHS report seriously.

Some are choosing to remain in the hole and keep digging.

278 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:36:48am

re: #223 Cato the Elder

Yes, because neocon is (among other things) code for "Jew".

I went to C-PAC in D.C. a few months ago with Michael. We were traversing a corridor of booths from various groups and publications. The American Conservative had their little corner too, with two senile men running it. Michael told them I was with Commentary, which they derided as a "left-wing magazine."

I have yet to meet a paleocon who's not an anti-Semite, and by extension, Neo-Con hater.

279 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:37:12am

re: #241 Thanos

Well, THERE'S your problem! Media Matters for America was started by a group that included Hillary Clinton to provide a steady stream of distorted news taken out of context to be used by Liberals. Just walk away, slowly. "Don't even ignore it", to quote Yogi Berra.

280 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:37:13am

re: #156 loppyd

Um, did you just call goddessoftheclassroom trash?

The person who painstakingly kept a list of those in need of prayer?

Because she decided to post at another blog?

And the person who abandoned that prayer list when she decided that people over here who had been supportive of her throughout her own trials and tribulations no longer deserved to be prayed for.

And the person who, at the other place, advocates government mandated sterilization:

20. goddessoftheclassroom on 31 May, 2009 at 7:10 pm reply
If I were goddess of the universe as well as the classroom, here’s how this mess would work.

1. Young people would be taught WHY abstinence is a goody idea in terms of emotional and physical health until one is an adult.

2. Effective, long-term birth control would be available to all woman. Oh, wait–it already is.

3. Abortion would be illegal except when the mother’s life is in danger and in cases of incest and rape victims.

4. Unwanted pregnancies would be accepted for adoption. After two unwanted pregnancies, the sate reserves the right to shut off breeding capabilites through sterilization.

5. If people cannot have enough self-respect, self-restraint, and self-discipline to prevent unwanted pregnancy, then the state has the right to stop that person.

281 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:37:16am

re: #275 Alouette

Not at just another blog. The stalker blog that is composed of the trash and riff-raff that has been Stinkesized.

Do you think she went over there to "save" them, like the proverbial preacher caught in the whorehouse.

I don't know and I don't care.

She is not trash, though. Come on...

282 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:37:24am

re: #258 lobo91

It was on Hardball, which is on CNBC, I believe. Or maybe MSNBC.

Thanks for the correction.

283 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:37:30am

re: #254 KenJen

I just checked it thru my recent comments . The avatar shows an alien from Star Wars-I think. Registered since 2004. 832 comments. Karma 19 and a link to a blog.

Yeah, after seeing this, I just checked it via a Search In Comments, and that came up for me too. Looks like something of a "special character" issue which bothers one subroutine but not another.

/isn't software fun?

284 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:37:43am

re: #264 rightside

No thanks, I hear just fine. I don't make statements based on what mediamatters says. I listen for myself, and make up my own mind.

Good day.

It's a direct quote soundbite from his show, him saying it. Click the link, and then try to lie again about what you heard.

It's factual, the source really does not matter if he actually said it, and HE DID SAY IT.

285 lobo91  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:37:53am

re: #262 Dave the.....

Most of you probably recall that many on the left blamed Rush for the Oklahoma City bombing.

Specifically, it all started as a result of a comment by Bill Clinton.

286 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:38:01am

re: #266 MandyManners

Its been bugging me. See my #254.

287 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:38:05am

re: #280 reine.de.tout

You stalk the stalker blog.

That is rich.

288 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:38:13am

re: #243 loppyd

What?!

289 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:38:18am

re: #280 reine.de.tout

... advocates government mandated sterilization.

Uh, wow.

290 avanti  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:02am

re: #243 loppyd


How about Sharmuta, the biggest pants on fire liar on this blog?

Down ding for that comment.

291 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:04am

re: #280 reine.de.tout

Please, just drop it. This just won't help anything or anyone.

292 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:21am

re: #272 haakondahl

So she's Illumi-naughty?

That would be an affirmative. At least according to my freshman-year college roommate, who studied with her pa and later hung out with her and Gary Oldman while they were an item.

Sorry, no details. He never gave any and I wouldn't repeat them if he had.

293 freetoken  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:25am

re: #239 iceweasel

Another example is Debbie Schlussel, who is claiming that Muslims, Obama and multiculturalism are somehow to blame for Von Brunn.

Heh, there are people here who link to her crap...

294 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:26am

re: #263 Charles

I do agree with that as far as the people he did associate with are definitely among the right-wing extremists. American White Supremacists self-identify as "right wing". One can also find a few odd-ball associations or views which align with extreme leftist ideas, or some other nonsense. The true common denominator in all of it is hatred.

295 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:36am

re: #279 NelsFree

Well, THERE'S your problem! Media Matters for America was started by a group that included Hillary Clinton to provide a steady stream of distorted news taken out of context to be used by Liberals. Just walk away, slowly. "Don't even ignore it", to quote Yogi Berra.

So the fact that Rush said it doesn't matter? Did you listen? The sound bite is there, click on it.


/why are people so thickheaded today?

296 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:39am

re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I just clicked that avatar (and double-checked it after seeing this post of yours.) It's still showing up as not-in-the-registry.

hmmmm

I think that the # in the name messes up the lookup. When you click the football, your browser runs a script which fills in the name of the user and opens a page by that name. But first, your browser is going to send that URL back to LGF. The # in that username gets expanded into a %23 (let's see if that shows up). The problem is that the username does not contain a %23, it contains a #. So the page isn't found, and the script serves up a specialized 404.

I think.

297 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:50am

re: #273 Son of the Black Dog

But do they belong to Mensa?

Nope. They belong to Lightolier®.

298 Dave the.....  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:39:54am
re: #280 reine.de.tout

... advocates government mandated sterilization.

Looks like 1920s Eugenics is back.

299 Catttt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:40:04am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

Yeah, he's part of the wacky libertarian thing. They go so far to the right that they're near the moronic convergence so there's some cross over with anarchists.

When they fall off any edge, they get sucked into a.....

300 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:40:13am

Oh, and I do remember a GNIDAthesecond from way back, but not one with a pound sign in the name.

301 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:40:20am

re: #290 avanti

Down ding for that comment.

Ding it all you want. It is the truth and if we're all about being pure of heart and being judged by those we hang with then it's fair game.

302 buster  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:40:43am

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Monumental stupidity from Rush....
Limbaugh on the Holocaust Museum drama : It's Obama's fault
I know it's a koskidz diary but listen to the audio. Unless this is really out of context or edited this is really bad.

It's his brand of humor. He is reacting to Chris Mathews saying it was all Rushe's (and right wing talk radio in general's) fault.

303 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:41:02am

re: #276 loppyd

All I'm saying is if HH is the arbiter of purity, then he must live by his words.


I don't live by my words..I live by my actions...
Let's drop this LoppyD...It's not worth it...I'm sorry if I offended...
We good?

304 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:41:03am

re: #291 Dianna

Please, just drop it. This just won't help anything or anyone.

I didn't start it.
But if people are going to get all over HH and others, then they need to know what it is they are defending.

I will shut up now.

305 jcm  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:41:49am

re: #228 Shug

do any of you know any illuminati?

what does one look like?

I'd love to see one some time.

You have to avoid the chemtrails and sprinkler rainbows, purge your system to see them.

306 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:41:52am

re: #8 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is becoming a very bad replay of the 70's with the Black Panthers and other radical fringe groups doing violence.

Extremism by the Panthers has continued to recent years, and it's deplorable. They and schmucks like this killer are undoing much of the good works of people like Buddy Holly at the Apollo 1957. (Actor Gary Busey, several years ago.)

307 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:41:52am

re: #248 loppyd

Yes.

Did he mention that Bush was the devil in the same sentence?

Given how far to the left Newsweek has become (I remember when it was just a regular somewhat readable liberal magazine) I am certain that most of its editors and reporters think that Bush, Cheney, and Rover are blood brothers to Goering, Himmler, and Heydrich. Newsweek (I do not know if it still is) used to be owned or published by The Washington Post.

308 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:42:46am

What's up with this?
Holocaust museum shooter charged with murder
I thought he died last night.

309 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:42:47am

re: #280 reine.de.tout

As Charles said, wow.

One can only be grateful that her status as "goddess" exists only in her head. I doubt whether even her most grateful students think of her that way.

Always did think there was something smelly about that nic, by the way.

310 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:42:50am

re: #304 reine.de.tout

I didn't start it.
But if people are going to get all over HH and others, then they need to know what it is they are defending.

I will shut up now.

I know, I know. But the anger bothers me, and I don't see how quoting things from that site does much but perpetuate the problems.

311 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:43:16am

re: #301 loppyd

Ding it all you want. It is the truth and if we're all about being pure of heart and being judged by those we hang with then it's fair game.

Interesting that you slander one poster in an attempt to defend a former poster.

312 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:43:19am

re: #310 Dianna

I know, I know. But the anger bothers me, and I don't see how quoting things from that site does much but perpetuate the problems.

I agree.

313 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:43:28am

re: #231 Joel

To claim that Rush Limbaugh and conservative talk radio is responsible for the shooting yesterday is absurd. Conservative talk radio is universally pro Israel and if you want to hear Jew hatred go check on Air (Head) America (if you can find it).

Of course it's absurd, but then I think that Rush's response could have been better. I think the point that the left is making, however, is that conservative talk show hosts such as Limbaugh and Hannity are creating a general environment of race hatred. It's the same accusation that was used against HWSNBN by the former British Home Secretary. I don't agree with this argument, and in this particular case, the only rational explanation that I can come up with is that the attack was carried out by a man who was chronicly filled with hatred, and who was not a product of immediately current political environment.

314 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:43:31am

re: #279 NelsFree

Well, THERE'S your problem! Media Matters for America was started by a group that included Hillary Clinton to provide a steady stream of distorted news taken out of context to be used by Liberals. Just walk away, slowly. "Don't even ignore it", to quote Yogi Berra.

Here's a site more to your particular liking also confirming that Rush is either a nirther or catering to nirthers, pick one:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Limbaugh said, “A lot of people talk about Barack Obama and his messianic complex. He does have one thing in common with God. Barack Obama has one thing in common with God. Do you know what it is? God doesn’t have a birth certificate either…God does not have a birth certificate neither does Obama, not that we have seen.”

315 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:43:32am

re: #299 Catttt

nice.

316 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:43:49am

re: #296 haakondahl

I think that the # in the name messes up the lookup. When you click the football, your browser runs a script which fills in the name of the user and opens a page by that name. But first, your browser is going to send that URL back to LGF. The # in that username gets expanded into a %23 (let's see if that shows up). The problem is that the username does not contain a %23, it contains a #. So the page isn't found, and the script serves up a specialized 404.

I think.

Yeah, I recall that %-something up there. Sounds like you're onto it.

That's why I like hardware. We don't have these things happening with soldering irons and oscilloscopes.

/though analog can get really wierd

317 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:44:07am

re: #308 Killgore Trout

The security guard died, the killer is still alive.

318 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:44:07am

re: #243 loppyd

You have no standing to know what is in her heart. Or that of anyone else.

Do you think Irish Rose has a pure heart for starting a "hit list" blog?

How about Sharmuta, the biggest pants on fire liar on this blog?

Ah, I see. You were looking to start a fight. Did you get what you want?

319 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:44:29am

re: #309 Cato the Elder

As Charles said, wow.

One can only be grateful that her status as "goddess" exists only in her head. I doubt whether even her most grateful students think of her that way.

Always did think there was something smelly about that nic, by the way.

Goddess of the restroom.
//

320 ointmentfly  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:44:40am

re: #294 Kenneth

I do agree with that as far as the people he did associate with are definitely among the right-wing extremists. American White Supremacists self-identify as "right wing". One can also find a few odd-ball associations or views which align with extreme leftist ideas, or some other nonsense. The true common denominator in all of it is hatred.

Take the phrase "right wing extremist". Why isn't this guy simply called a neo-nazi. Why is he the extreme side of the right wing? That right wing includes people like me. I am nowhere near Von Brunn, but the MSM links these people to the mainstream right in am effort to discredit the whole right side of the political spectrum..

321 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:44:43am

re: #311 wrenchwench

Interesting that you slander one poster in an attempt to defend a former poster.

Look up slander. I did no such thing.

322 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:45:10am

re: #317 Kenneth

The security guard died, the killer is still alive.

Ah thanks. I was confused.

323 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:45:30am

re: #318 haakondahl

Ah, I see. You were looking to start a fight. Did you get what you want?

Actually, I was doing nothing of the sort. I can't sit back and let blatant hypocrisy slide, though.

324 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:45:43am

re: #280 reine.de.tout

"We want fewer and better children . . . and we cannot make the social life and the world-peace we are determined to make, with the ill-bred, ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens that you inflict on us."
Margaret Sanger

It's the "swarms of inferior" part that is so contemptuous, but lots of people feel this way. I look at children as having enormous potential, since the brain is the most complex known structure in the universe. Somewhere in the brains of the "swarms" like the answers to humanities problems.

325 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:00am

re: #278 medaura18586

I went to C-PAC in D.C. a few months ago with Michael. We were traversing a corridor of booths from various groups and publications. The American Conservative had their little corner too, with two senile men running it. Michael told them I was with Commentary, which they derided as a "left-wing magazine."

I have yet to meet a paleocon who's not an anti-Semite, and by extension, Neo-Con hater.

Ah, I have friends who will laugh and laugh when I tell them about Commentary's left-wing status.

You've got to love a magazine that liberals and conservatives of various kinds all hate that much.

Something tells me that Norman Mailer, were he still with us, would still be writing for Commentary, if only to piss off the people who thought they knew what he thought.

326 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:09am

re: #308 Killgore Trout

What's up with this?
Holocaust museum shooter charged with murder
I thought he died last night.

Nope still stealing air

327 lobo91  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:15am

re: #320 ointmentfly

Take the phrase "right wing extremist". Why isn't this guy simply called a neo-nazi. Why is he the extreme side of the right wing? That right wing includes people like me. I am nowhere near Von Brunn, but the MSM links these people to the mainstream right in am effort to discredit the whole right side of the political spectrum..

I think you just answered you own question.

328 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:16am

re: #309 Cato the Elder

re: #319 KenJen

Are we a pack of hysterical schoolgirls, now?

329 avanti  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:25am

re: #301 loppyd

Ding it all you want. It is the truth and if we're all about being pure of heart and being judged by those we hang with then it's fair game.

Calling a fellow Lizard a liar without some hard facts is just lame ass bashing. You have right to disagree with comments, but that does not make them lies.

330 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:25am

re: #275 Alouette

I lurked on the stalker site a bit after goddess defected. She was expressing admiration ("awesome") for the dark, violent fantasies of one of the male commenters. I'm informed that she had described being abused in a relationship. The darkness is familiar to her.

re: #280 reine.de.tout

In Skinner v. Oklahoma, the U.S. Supreme Court declared forced sterilization unconstitutional.

331 Catttt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:34am

Folks, personal attacks on other bloggers/posters is poor form. Attack their words - attack their ideas with logic and common sense. Point out the errors in their arguments. Calling them names is not going to get you anywhere you really want to go.

332 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:46:55am

re: #308 Killgore Trout

What's up with this?
Holocaust museum shooter charged with murder
I thought he died last night.

Nope - that was the guard

333 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:47:03am

re: #328 Dianna

I fail to see anything hysterical in what I wrote.

334 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:47:13am

re: #321 loppyd

Look up slander. I did no such thing.

I'm not a legal assistant or whatever you are. You said a mean, nasty thing about one person as part of an objection to what you took as somebody else saying a mean, nasty thing about another. It's not a legal point.

335 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:47:16am

re: #325 Cato the Elder

Ah, I have friends who will laugh and laugh when I tell them about Commentary's left-wing status.

You've got to love a magazine that liberals and conservatives of various kinds all hate that much.

Something tells me that Norman Mailer, were he still with us, would still be writing for Commentary, if only to piss off the people who thought they knew what he thought.


Didn't Noam Chomsky write for Commentary back in the 60s?

336 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:47:47am

re: #331 Catttt

Folks, personal attacks on other bloggers/posters is poor form. Attack their words - attack their ideas with logic and common sense. Point out the errors in their arguments. Calling them names is not going to get you anywhere you really want to go.

That and some people should probably increased their dosage of meds

337 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:47:58am

re: #320 ointmentfly

Start from the political center. Move to the right and you have conservatives. Move far, far to the right and you have right-wing extremists.

Now start back at the center again. Move a little bit to the left and you have liberals, further to the left you have socialists, further still you have communists, marxists and other left-wing extremists.

That's how it works.

338 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:48:12am

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Ah thanks. I was confused.

So I've noticed ;)

339 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:48:26am

re: #328 Dianna

re: #319 KenJen

Are we a pack of hysterical schoolgirls, now?

Sorry. That was bad. I take it back.

340 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:48:29am

re: #292 Cato the Elder

That would be an affirmative. At least according to my freshman-year college roommate, who studied with her pa and later hung out with her and Gary Oldman while they were an item.

Sorry, no details. He never gave any and I wouldn't repeat them if he had.

You are a gentleman and a scolder.

341 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:48:42am

re: #329 avanti

Calling a fellow Lizard a liar without some hard facts is just lame ass bashing. You have right to disagree with comments, but that does not make them lies.

I have all the facts. Do you want me to air them publicly?

342 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:48:48am

re: #330 quickjustice

I stopped by the stalker blog this morning and learned that Gulf Coast Pundit shut down. I guess the admin didn't like the commenters stance on killing abortion doctors and pulled the plug on the site.

343 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:49:00am

re: #324 DistantThunder

"We want fewer and better children . . . and we cannot make the social life and the world-peace we are determined to make, with the ill-bred, ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens that you inflict on us."
Margaret Sanger

It's the "swarms of inferior" part that is so contemptuous, but lots of people feel this way. I look at children as having enormous potential, since the brain is the most complex known structure in the universe. Somewhere in the brains of the "swarms" likelay (or lie) the answers to humanities y's problems.

It's the pain medicine. Appeal to MRI denial - DAY 4.
Government response:

344 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:49:26am

re: #333 Cato the Elder

All right, then "Are we being back-biting schoolgirls, now?"

I don't care what you thought or didn't in the past. This "let's make fun of a nic of a former poster" business is both ridiculous and immature.

345 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:49:29am

re: #334 wrenchwench

I'm not a legal assistant or whatever you are. You said a mean, nasty thing about one person as part of an objection to what you took as somebody else saying a mean, nasty thing about another. It's not a legal point.

Then you can accuse me of calling someone names, not slander.

346 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:49:31am

re: #293 freetoken

Simply put, Brunn was unhinged for decades. Obama had nothing to do with it. Islam had nothing to do with it.

The precipitating event in Brunn's case for this most recent criminal act is his claim that his Social Security benefits were cut by the government.

Back in the 1980s he served time in federal prison for attempting to hold the Federal Reserve hostage. He was well known to the FBI and the SPLC for years because of his anti Semitic and racist writings.

If there is one commonality through all of his rantings, it's his anti Semitism. That's the great unifier among the kooks and the fringe elements on both sides of the political divide.

347 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:49:39am

re: #313 John Neverbend

Of course it's absurd, but then I think that Rush's response could have been better. I think the point that the left is making, however, is that conservative talk show hosts such as Limbaugh and Hannity are creating a general environment of race hatred. It's the same accusation that was used against HWSNBN by the former British Home Secretary. I don't agree with this argument, and in this particular case, the only rational explanation that I can come up with is that the attack was carried out by a man who was chronicly filled with hatred, and who was not a product of immediately current political environment.

What about Keith Olbermann who said to President Bush
"Shut the hell up" and "You sir are a fascist"?

348 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:50:12am

re: #297 Gang of One

Nope. They belong to Lightolier®.

Well, MENSA is still Lightolier-than-thou.

349 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:50:17am

re: #339 KenJen

Thank you.

350 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:50:29am

re: #336 Nevergiveup

Wow!
I leave for two hours and come back to a food fight!
What hit the fan?

351 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:51:05am

If you were having trouble seeing the user profile for comment #533 in the overnight open thread - try again. It should work now. The '#' sign in the username was not being transmitted properly.

352 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:51:15am

re: #309 Cato the Elder

As Charles said, wow.

One can only be grateful that her status as "goddess" exists only in her head. I doubt whether even her most grateful students think of her that way.

Always did think there was something smelly about that nic, by the way.

I was stunned when I read that.

I think it points out that we cannot honestly judge how wonderful or how awful a person is by the online persona they care to show us.

Everyone is always pissed off with Killgore, who I do not always agree with, but then I think of his running off and mowing a neighbor's lawn so she wouldn't have to struggle with it.

353 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:51:15am

Conservative Media Freaked Out Over DHS Report On Right Wing Extremists


Conservatives made themselves an easy target. This was all too easy.

354 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:51:51am

re: #350 reloadingisnotahobby

Wow!
I leave for two hours and come back to a food fight!
What hit the fan?

I am not sure, I just got back here also. But it seems tempers are short today. Must be the weather?

355 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:51:52am

re: #333 Cato the Elder

I fail to see anything hysterical in what I wrote.

I did not either. However, KenJen was out of line, IMHO.

356 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:51:55am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

I stopped by the stalker blog this morning and learned that Gulf Coast Pundit shut down. I guess the admin didn't like the commenters stance on killing abortion doctors and pulled the plug on the site.

You call it a stalker blog but you went stalking over there? If a person checks out another blog even if it is Daily Kos or Democratic Underground are they stalkers? I occasionally go onto MSNBC's website even though I hate that station, I do not consider myself to be a stalker.

357 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:52:30am

re: #337 Kenneth

Start from the political center. Move to the right and you have conservatives. Move far, far to the right and you have right-wing extremists.

Now start back at the center again. Move a little bit to the left and you have liberals, further to the left you have socialists, further still you have communists, marxists and other left-wing extremists.

That's how it works.

That's the traditional way of thinking of it, but if you consider a spectrum of control, then socialism, fascism, extremists exhibit the MOST control - even anarchists who control through fear. But I think this is a much better description. I like the chart.

358 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:52:34am

re: #350 reloadingisnotahobby

Wow!
I leave for two hours and come back to a food fight!
What hit the fan?

I think everyone's on edge and upset, and we're taking it out on each other.

I'm going to be very careful what comes off my keyboard today.

359 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:52:52am

re: #344 Dianna

All right, then "Are we being back-biting schoolgirls, now?"

I don't care what you thought or didn't in the past. This "let's make fun of a nic of a former poster" business is both ridiculous and immature.

I am unmoved.

360 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:52:59am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

I haven't been back to the stalker site. A couple of times was enough. If they're cheering on murder, they've jumped the shark.

361 Fierce Guppy  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:53:15am

re: #213 Dianna

I think he's pure moron, but that's because every time I see a quote from him, it's so idiotic that I can't discern any coherent ideology.

You can bet those who need to discern an ideology from von Brunn will do so. von Brunn said he wanted to "deport all Jews and blacks from the white nations" which is a sentiment that bespeaks the polar opposite of Libertarianism. If someone dislikes Libertarianism then they will find links to libertarians in there somewhere. They'll just downplay all the rest. It is how U.S. Tea Parties become Ron Paul events.

Tony.

362 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:53:15am

re: #306 abolitionist

Extremism by the Panthers has continued to recent years, and it's deplorable.

It is also apparently unreportable.

363 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:53:38am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

I stopped by the stalker blog this morning and learned that Gulf Coast Pundit shut down. I guess the admin didn't like the commenters stance on killing abortion doctors and pulled the plug on the site.

So that's what happened. I wondered why it was shut down this morning.

364 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:02am

re: #355 Honorary Yooper

I did not either. However, KenJen was out of line, IMHO.

I didn't care for the content of Cato the Elder's #309. It struck me as nasty, gossipy and back-biting.

365 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:04am

re: #346 lawhawk

Simply put, Brunn was unhinged for decades. Obama had nothing to do with it. Islam had nothing to do with it.

The precipitating event in Brunn's case for this most recent criminal act is his claim that his Social Security benefits were cut by the government.

Back in the 1980s he served time in federal prison for attempting to hold the Federal Reserve hostage. He was well known to the FBI and the SPLC for years because of his anti Semitic and racist writings.

If there is one commonality through all of his rantings, it's his anti Semitism. That's the great unifier among the kooks and the fringe elements on both sides of the political divide.

Yes indeed. Hatred of Jews unites the most diverse group of nuts out there. Rev. Wright would probably forgive his racism because anti Samitism takes precedence over all.

366 ointmentfly  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:35am

re: #337 Kenneth

Start from the political center. Move to the right and you have conservatives. Move far, far to the right and you have right-wing extremists.

Now start back at the center again. Move a little bit to the left and you have liberals, further to the left you have socialists, further still you have communists, marxists and other left-wing extremists.

That's how it works.


When was the last time you heard "left wing extremist" in the press? I don't know that I have ever heard that phrase. Is the new Black Panther party an extreme left wing group in the media?

367 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:41am

re: #359 Cato the Elder

I am unmoved.

Good for you.
/

368 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:46am

re: #356 Joel

You call it a stalker blog but you went stalking over there? If a person checks out another blog even if it is Daily Kos or Democratic Underground are they stalkers? I occasionally go onto MSNBC's website even though I hate that station, I do not consider myself to be a stalker.

I think Killgore meant to say he was lurking -- reading the posts, not participating ...

369 hazzyday  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:49am

re: #344 Dianna

All right, then "Are we being back-biting schoolgirls, now?"

I don't care what you thought or didn't in the past. This "let's make fun of a nic of a former poster" business is both ridiculous and immature.

GoTC is a fine person. She just made a bad choice of "blog on the rebound". Her religious needs made her feel uncomfortable here. She needs to shout out "Jesus Saves" and felt constrained in the company. You could see she was struggling. I doubt she will stay at the stalker blog. It has a pretty negative foundation that still percolates through it. I don't think it's her cup of tea.

She never misused the prayer list. Rather people told her "don't you dare pray for me". Something to take in stride and let go of.

370 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:49am

re: #358 Dianna

It happens!
Hard to know how to take some comments since we can't hear vocal inflection and such!
No one can ruin my weekend!
It's our anniversary and we're OUTTA HERE!

371 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:54:52am

re: #358 Dianna

check your email

372 freetoken  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:55:28am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

I was wondering what all those "GCP" references were about...

Oh, more on the It's-Obama's-fault theme, from Beck's 912 Project blog entry on the shooting:

Jerseygal 92p · 7 hours ago
This tragedy is a direct result of BH0 bowing to the Saudi King, embracing muslims, apologizing around the world, and in effect, dissing the Israelis. BH0 has not only emboldened foreign ter ror ists, he has emboldened domestic ones. Three cases in one and a half weeks, I think it is difficult to dispute. I wonder whose fault BH0 will say it is. Oh yeah - Bush.

'All it takes for evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing.' I cannot recall what great thinker said that, but its premise is beginning to stir up resistance to BH0's policies.

BTW, Beck has made it harder to link to comments now, it appears. I can still do it (as above), but I have to go through an extra step.

373 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:55:41am

re: #356 Joel

Yes, because until recently the blog was called "Charles and Killgore free footballs". They were devoted to witting about myself and other lizards. The make parody videos about me and have threads about debates I have here. I see nothing wrong with reading it. I don't see why you'd care if I do.

374 debutaunt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:55:41am

re: #356 Joel

You call it a stalker blog but you went stalking over there? If a person checks out another blog even if it is Daily Kos or Democratic Underground are they stalkers? I occasionally go onto MSNBC's website even though I hate that station, I do not consider myself to be a stalker.

They are stalking LGF.

375 John Neverbend  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:56:09am

re: #347 Joel

What about Keith Olbermann who said to President Bush
"Shut the hell up" and "You sir are a fascist"?

Sounds like a rude git to me.

376 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:56:20am

re: #323 loppyd

Actually, I was doing nothing of the sort. I can't sit back and let blatant hypocrisy slide, though.

Or world hunger, for that matter.

377 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:56:28am

re: #293 freetoken

Heh, there are people here who link to her crap...

Ay-yi-yi.

Mr. Von Brunn has been on this planet for 89 years, and he didn't feel comfortable shooting up a Holocaust museum until now--this new era of "tolerance," in which we must tolerate the most extremist Muslim behaviors and sentiments

Not only does this ignore Von Brunn's extensive history of anti-semitism and violence (his first conviction being in 1981!) -- she purports to somehow blame his actions on Muslims, 'the left' , and 'a U.S. President kissing [Muslims'] collective ass.'

Really, all we need to know about DS is that she considers the people at HotAir to be too 'left'.

378 jcm  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:56:36am

re: #316 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yeah, I recall that %-something up there. Sounds like you're onto it.

That's why I like hardware. We don't have these things happening with soldering irons and oscilloscopes.

/though analog can get really wierd

Heh, you haven't dealt with techs on a factory floor, have you? One of my analog test boards failed, this is 24 layer board, almost a quarter inch thick. They had so mis-handled it one corner was crunched and the internal ground and power copper planes were shorting......

Factory had a big long memo blaming design (me) I had a one page memo with a photo and and ohm meter reading of the planes shorted.

379 debutaunt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:56:48am

re: #358 Dianna

I think everyone's on edge and upset, and we're taking it out on each other.

I'm going to be very careful what comes off my keyboard today.

I'm gonna go read the rest of a terrific novel I've been reading.

380 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:56:57am

re: #369 hazzyday

Much truth in that.

381 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:56:59am

re: #360 quickjustice

I haven't been back to the stalker site. A couple of times was enough. If they're cheering on murder, they've jumped the shark.

The GCPers had been getting more and more in line with the GoV stance on the VB and BNP recently. Cheering on murderers like Tiller's murderer would not surprise me. They actively do that over at LGF2. Many of the same people, oddly enough.

382 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:57:02am

re: #372 freetoken

The Fox news audience is getting spooky and dangerous.

383 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:57:03am

re: #358 Dianna

I think everyone's on edge and upset, and we're taking it out on each other.

I'm going to be very careful what comes off my keyboard today.

It's true. The misery index has made a comeback here in NJ. Meanwhile I will no longer roll my eyes at Mr DT who insists on always facing the door when seated in a public place, and always makes mental notes of the exits. He was actually dining in Philly with a colleague of his when there was a shooting right outside the window where they were eating and about 20 feet down the street. They both instantly hit the floor. They did not assume the noise was firecrackers.

384 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:57:47am

re: #366 ointmentfly

When was the last time you heard "left wing extremist" in the press? I don't know that I have ever heard that phrase. Is the new Black Panther party an extreme left wing group in the media?

Just google ""left wing extremist" and you will find plenty of such references.

385 KenJen  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:57:49am

re: #355 Honorary Yooper

I did not either. However, KenJen was out of line, IMHO.

I was. I apologized. My first down dings. They stung.

386 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:57:56am

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The Fox news audience is getting spooky and dangerous.

Yeah, my 80 yr. old great aunt is one scary beyatch.

387 Abu Lahab  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:58:04am

I find R. Spencer in his article about this shooting misses the whole point , (or keeps ignoring the truth maybe):

The shooting at the Holocaust Museum yesterday demonstrates yet again that, contrary to the imaginings of libelbloggers, real white supremacist neo-Nazis are not pro-Israel, but rather hate Jews



So convincing Mr. Spencer. OK, we believe now that European fascists are not fascists because they do not shoot people in the holocaust museums.
Logic 101 !

388 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:58:28am

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The Fox news audience is getting spooky and dangerous.

How do you know what Fox News Audience is?

389 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:58:41am

re: #369 hazzyday

Please note that I am making no comments on gotc's decision, her prayer list, her character or anything else. She's not here and can't type for herself; that's my only point.

I just wish everyone would settle down a little.

390 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:58:54am

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The Fox news audience is getting spooky and dangerous.

They're just trying to catch up to the CNN/MSNBC audience.

391 redstateredneck  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:59:11am

re: #388 Nevergiveup

How do you know what Fox News Audience is?

Now that's some serious stalking, for sure!

392 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:59:17am

re: #330 quickjustice

That was highly creepy. Not her, you.

393 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:59:21am

re: #370 reloadingisnotahobby

It happens!
Hard to know how to take some comments since we can't hear vocal inflection and such!
No one can ruin my weekend!
It's our anniversary and we're OUTTA HERE!

Congratulations, many happy returns, and have a wonderful time!

394 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:59:36am

re: #295 Thanos

So the fact that Rush said it doesn't matter? Did you listen? The sound bite is there, click on it.


/why are people so thickheaded today?

Thanos, chill please. Here, have a lemonade, go sit on the front porch swing. You have to listen to Rush from start to finish in order to get the context. Media Matters deliberately takes parts that sound incriminating. The comments posted below that, by the way, show a significant sychophancy of the deranged Left. I'm all right, you're all right, we have different reality filter settings today. Oh, love your avatar!
/hands an icy cold lemonade, with sprig of wintergreen

395 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 11:59:40am

re: #366 ointmentfly

When was the last time you heard "left wing extremist" in the press? I don't know that I have ever heard that phrase. Is the new Black Panther party an extreme left wing group in the media?

If the eco-terrorists or radical animal rights groups start bombing labs and shooting researchers again, you can bet your bippy we'll be hearing about 'left wing extremists'.

Right wing extremists come out of the woodwork under a Dem admin. That's what we're seeing now.

396 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:00:05pm

re: #373 Killgore Trout

Yes, because until recently the blog was called "Charles and Killgore free footballs". They were devoted to witting about myself and other lizards. The make parody videos about me and have threads about debates I have here. I see nothing wrong with reading it. I don't see why you'd care if I do.

Why would I care what you read? The last I heard was that even in Obama's America one is still for now free to read whatever you want to read.

397 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:00:11pm

re: #369 hazzyday

I don't know whether she's a "fine person" or not. I know she expressed Christian piety on this blog. I also know what I read on the stalker site. Without attacking her, I'd say she has issues. (I'll add that I have issues myself of a different sort.)

398 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:00:38pm

re: #366 ointmentfly

When was the last time you heard "left wing extremist" in the press? I don't know that I have ever heard that phrase. Is the new Black Panther party an extreme left wing group in the media?

Actually, the left wing extremists get their own TV show on Whale Wars - showing anti-whaling activists ramming the whaling boat and throwing "acid bombs" onto the ship. It's violent, extreme, and the activists cry when a whale is harpooned.

Imagine a similar show about abortion clinic protesters with the protesters as the good guys. Twilight Zone.

399 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:01:00pm

re: #341 loppyd

I have all the facts. Do you want me to air them publicly?

Again?

400 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:01:13pm

re: #341 loppyd

{GAZE}

401 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:01:29pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The Fox news audience is getting spooky and dangerous.

Hey why not just shut them down as Mr. Olbermann suggested the other day? After all they are responsible for Tiller's murder.

402 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:01:32pm

re: #371 pre-Boomer Marine brat

check your email

I did, I read. Thanks.

403 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:01:44pm

re: #393 Dianna
Thanks!

404 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:01:54pm

Does anyone know what the Responsible White Seperatists want to separate from or where they plan on going to?

How do separate 1/2 the nation from the other 1/2?
Who gets what?
Is the country divided by
'You folks can live here between I-15 and I-30, between I-90 and I-80
'You folks can live from I-80 to I-70.
or
'you white separatists get the thumb of Michigan's mitten.
'you black separtists get the Sault St Marie area of Michigan

405 avanti  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:02:10pm

re: #369 hazzyday

GoTC is a fine person. She just made a bad choice of "blog on the rebound". Her religious needs made her feel uncomfortable here. She needs to shout out "Jesus Saves" and felt constrained in the company. You could see she was struggling. I doubt she will stay at the stalker blog. It has a pretty negative foundation that still percolates through it. I don't think it's her cup of tea.

She never misused the prayer list. Rather people told her "don't you dare pray for me". Something to take in stride and let go of.

If her religious needs made this her support government sterilization, she would not be happy on LGF.

406 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:02:19pm

re: #388 Nevergiveup

Find the Shepard Smith clip from yesterday talking about it. I won't link to it for you. Find it yourself.

407 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:02:55pm

re: #395 iceweasel

If the eco-terrorists or radical animal rights groups start bombing labs and shooting researchers again, you can bet your bippy we'll be hearing about 'left wing extremists'.

Right wing extremists come out of the woodwork under a Dem admin. That's what we're seeing now.

Cindy Sheehan is in Dallas protesting president Bush with 50 people this week. She's demanding he be investigated.

408 freetoken  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:13pm

re: #377 iceweasel


Really, all we need to know about DS is that she considers the people at HotAir to be too 'left'.

But that link got 6 up-dings ➯ it must have pleased some!

409 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:19pm

re: #356 Joel

You call it a stalker blog but you went stalking over there? If a person checks out another blog even if it is Daily Kos or Democratic Underground are they stalkers? I occasionally go onto MSNBC's website even though I hate that station, I do not consider myself to be a stalker.

Lurking is not stalking, blogwise. There's more.

410 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:21pm

re: #373 Killgore Trout

Yes, because until recently the blog was called "Charles and Killgore free footballs". They were devoted to witting about myself and other lizards. The make parody videos about me and have threads about debates I have here. I see nothing wrong with reading it. I don't see why you'd care if I do.

Not only that, they've accused you of being Charles's sock puppet, defamed other lizards here, and called for sticking red-hot pokers up a certain part of the anatomy on certain female lizards. They used to nic-jack people here (Killgore and Sharmuta were favorites) until they got called out for the activity. One of the blog's owners has threatened his step-daughter's boyfriend with a shotgun, and the other is a nasty Serbian nationalist. These are the folks who certain people felt more comfortable with, and they do bear watching as they have threatened people over here with maiming or death.

411 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:24pm

re: #379 debutaunt

I'm gonna go read the rest of a terrific novel I've been reading.

Thank you!

412 hazzyday  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:30pm

re: #289 Charles

Uh, wow.

My impression of that is that how she feels about herself. She would undergo the sterilization if she had two unplanned pregnancies. The interesting part is the role of government. I always think religious people have the burden of trying to achieve their goals through personal example and not Government control. Making the government do it for you takes all the fun out of it. Maybe GoTC is giving up.

I have started to think lately that the government should geocode all thieves with a sub cutaneous chip. Or that we should psychological label all these Army of God and White Supremacist people. It seems just too much bother to even tolerate them. I wonder why I want to live in a society where they are allowed to run loose.

But the underpinnings of free will and democracy I can say I don't comprehend well enough to make a wise choice.

413 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:32pm

re: #400 NelsFree

{GAZE}

You are hugging gaze?

414 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:48pm

re: #404 Eowyn2

Does anyone know what the Responsible White Seperatists want to separate from or where they plan on going to?

How do separate 1/2 the nation from the other 1/2?
Who gets what?
Is the country divided by
'You folks can live here between I-15 and I-30, between I-90 and I-80
'You folks can live from I-80 to I-70.
or
'you white separatists get the thumb of Michigan's mitten.
'you black separtists get the Sault St Marie area of Michigan

I want to separate from noisy kids with sticky hands.

415 lobo91  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:03:54pm

re: #404 Eowyn2

Does anyone know what the Responsible White Seperatists want to separate from or where they plan on going to?

How do separate 1/2 the nation from the other 1/2?
Who gets what?
Is the country divided by
'You folks can live here between I-15 and I-30, between I-90 and I-80
'You folks can live from I-80 to I-70.
or
'you white separatists get the thumb of Michigan's mitten.
'you black separtists get the Sault St Marie area of Michigan

Mostly, I think they want to separate everyone not like them from the country entirely.

416 irongrampa  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:01pm

re: #358 Dianna

Do you think it's perhaps a symptom of what seems to be the general mood lately? I've noticed in general interaction in the real world the same thing evidenced here.

417 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:01pm

re: #406 Killgore Trout

Find the Shepard Smith clip from yesterday talking about it. I won't link to it for you. Find it yourself.

Yes, because only cranks watch Fox News and only the pure of heart and intention watch CNN.

418 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:03pm

re: #394 NelsFree

Np, I just hate it when people deny empirical fact, I gets all twitchy I does...

419 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:08pm

re: #392 haakondahl

Fair enough. There was a lot of discussion about her defection. Because she been a cheerful member of this community, I wanted to see for myself. After my lurk, I was absolutely convinced that it was her. I haven't gone back since.

420 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:35pm

re: #404 Eowyn2
Not sure!
Can you draw up what that map would resemble?
Hey!
I'm between I -70 and I -80........
Do I have to move?
LOL

421 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:35pm

re: #357 DistantThunder

Good video. I do agree the single axis left-right political spectrum does not adequately explain the full range of political ideologies.

422 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:36pm

re: #374 debutaunt

They are stalking LGF.

And if they do, so what? The Internet is open to all. I occasionally check out The Daily Kos and Crooks & Liars, I haven't died yet because of it.

423 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:04:37pm

OT:

Hal Turner has surrendered to CT law enforcement , charged with inciting others to violence, and released on $25,000 bond.

424 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:05:20pm

re: #387 Abu Lahab

OK, that was a fascinating exercise in fantasy logic.

425 ointmentfly  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:05:22pm

re: #395 iceweasel

If the eco-terrorists or radical animal rights groups start bombing labs and shooting researchers again, you can bet your bippy we'll be hearing about 'left wing extremists'.

Right wing extremists come out of the woodwork under a Dem admin. That's what we're seeing now.

I disagree. When eco terrorists bomb labs or torch dealerships they are conveniently separated from the political left and referred to as "animal rights activists". The left is immune from being lumped together with what is the extreme left unlike the right side of the political spectrum.

426 Catttt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:05:25pm

re: #356 Joel

You call it a stalker blog but you went stalking over there? If a person checks out another blog even if it is Daily Kos or Democratic Underground are they stalkers? I occasionally go onto MSNBC's website even though I hate that station, I do not consider myself to be a stalker.

IMHO, they were the epitome of - the definition of - a stalker blog. I perused the place only a few times and found it depressing. It was basically a Digg site strictly for LGF threads, with most of the comments aimed at Charles rather than whatever the point was.

Stuff like that would wear me down, even though I consider myself pretty tough-minded. One could easily allow one's self to be nibbled to death by ducks. Charles is often over the target, and he consequently takes a lot of flak from people with poor aim. I admire that he mocks them and keeps flying.

427 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:05:45pm

somewhere in an underground bunker near washington, DC patrick buchanan is secretly rejoicing.

428 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:05:54pm

I was shocked to see that former Olympic champion and renowned motivational speaker Bob Richards (the first Wheaties icon) had been associated with Willis Carto's Populist party and was even their presidential candidate in 1984.
Today, Reverend Richards and his wife operate a miniature horse ranch near my ancestral hometown of Gordon, Texas. I knew him only as a local celebrity and a very friendly and dynamic speaker. His current bio lists a quite remarkable series of accomplishments but does not mention his presidential candidacy or his association with Carto.
(It does mention that he was President Nixon's representative at the 1972 Munich Olympics.)

429 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:05:55pm

re: #398 DistantThunder

Actually, the left wing extremists get their own TV show on Whale Wars - showing anti-whaling activists ramming the whaling boat and throwing "acid bombs" onto the ship. It's violent, extreme, and the activists cry when a whale is harpooned.

Imagine a similar show about abortion clinic protesters with the protesters as the good guys. Twilight Zone.

I hate the whole concept of "Whale Wars". All it does is to glorify piracy, and I have a hard time sympathizing with pirates. Granted, I hate whaling, but I also hate pirates.

430 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:06:05pm

re: #378 jcm

... with a photo and and ohm meter reading ...

*grin/snicker/chortle/CACKLE/SHRIEK!*
I love it!

We've got a minor glitch in a HV op amp output circuit. There's a lo-level burst of noise several mS after applying power to the amp. I figger its something oscillating inside the op amp itself as the internal currents settle out to quiescent.

Should we consult a witch doctor?

431 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:06:18pm

re: #423 lawhawk

I think in light of the recent violence they're really going to throw the book at him.

432 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:06:37pm

re: #408 freetoken

But that link got 6 up-dings ➯ it must have pleased some!

Up dings can be because of agreement, or because what was posted was important and needed to be discussed. The upding doesn't distinguish between the two.

I will sometimes upding comments or links that I do not agree with, but which I think are important for discussion. I do the same by posting links or stories I do not agree with.

433 DANEgerus  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:06:59pm

Greyhawk : "Told Ya So" - 89 year-old shooter "confirms DHS report"

Ralph Peters - appearing on Fox with Neil Cavuto and surprised by what he'd heard earlier on Smith's show, eloquently defends his fellow veterans: "Neil, I gotta say something. On Fox News of all places in the last hour I heard that this tragic incident at the Holocaust Museum somehow validates the disgraceful report from the Department of Homeland Security warning about a terror threat from our returning veterans from Iraq or Afghanistan. Neil, this guy served in World War Two. He's been out of the military 64 years. He wasn't career military, he was a career nut. Ten million Americans served in World War Two, of the millions who survived are you going to put them on a terrorist watch list? It had nothing to do with the Department of Homeland Security report."

"You know a question nobody's asked yet? The brave security guard who died saving lives... was he a military veteran?"

...here's the actual veterans quote from the DHS report...

Like I said... the DHS report was a smear against the military and this loon was a self-descibed "journalist" if you really want to know. His next target? The Weekly Standard to kill him some Neocons.

Where are the anti-Semites in this country? Who is creating a climate nurturing and mainstreaming anti-semitism? Where the National Socialists live... ON THE LEFT!

434 hazzyday  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:07:05pm

re: #389 Dianna

Please note that I am making no comments on gotc's decision, her prayer list, her character or anything else. She's not here and can't type for herself; that's my only point.

I just wish everyone would settle down a little.

yah it's nothing to flame out over. Unless one is carrying some baggage that this is the match for.

435 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:07:19pm

re: #369 hazzyday

GoTC is a fine person. She just made a bad choice of "blog on the rebound". Her religious needs made her feel uncomfortable here. She needs to shout out "Jesus Saves" and felt constrained in the company. You could see she was struggling. I doubt she will stay at the stalker blog. It has a pretty negative foundation that still percolates through it. I don't think it's her cup of tea.

She never misused the prayer list. Rather people told her "don't you dare pray for me". Something to take in stride and let go of.

I think that she left amicably enough, and went where there were people she knew. But the price of admission may be agreeing to all sorts of things you might not agree with before the conversation starts. Sad to say, but moral compromise occurs when you open the door, not when you walk in.

436 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:07:22pm

re: #389 Dianna

Please note that I am making no comments on gotc's decision, her prayer list, her character or anything else. She's not here and can't type for herself; that's my only point.

I just wish everyone would settle down a little.

I can get behind that wish.

However, it seems like her defection hurt enough people that there still needs to be some airing of it. I don't see how you can expect to throttle that.

As for my comment on her nic, it was not retroactive sniping; I always did wonder about it, in passing. I'm sure many feel the same about mine. And many nics are just obscure and puzzling. Mentioning it may or may not be germane, but I hardly think it's beyond the pale.

437 ointmentfly  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:07:38pm

re: #398 DistantThunder

Actually, the left wing extremists get their own TV show on Whale Wars - showing anti-whaling activists ramming the whaling boat and throwing "acid bombs" onto the ship. It's violent, extreme, and the activists cry when a whale is harpooned.

Imagine a similar show about abortion clinic protesters with the protesters as the good guys. Twilight Zone.

I've seen it.

Again, you and I see that they are left wing, but "left wing" or "liberal" is not a word used on the show or to describe the show.

438 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:07:45pm

re: #383 DistantThunder

It's true. The misery index has made a comeback here in NJ. Meanwhile I will no longer roll my eyes at Mr DT who insists on always facing the door when seated in a public place, and always makes mental notes of the exits. He was actually dining in Philly with a colleague of his when there was a shooting right outside the window where they were eating and about 20 feet down the street. They both instantly hit the floor. They did not assume the noise was firecrackers.

Glad to know I'm not the only one with this quirk.

439 Abu Lahab  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:08:00pm

re: #424 Dianna

Exactly, I'm surprised someone will ignore the lessons behind this shooting.

440 Catttt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:08:03pm

re: #389 Dianna

You are a totally nice person, hon. :D

441 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:08:24pm

We're a Church, Not a Lobby, Catholic Bishop Tells Ethics Probers


According to the Connecticut Office of State Ethics, the diocese acted as a lobbying organization in March when it rented buses to transport people to a rally in Hartford — the state capital — to protest a bill that would have granted more power to parishioners regarding church finances.

So, state meddling in church affairs = good, but trying to prevent state meddling in church affairs = bad? WTF is wrong with the Connecticut Legislature?

442 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:08:34pm

re: #413 loppyd

Just relax, Loppy. Gee whiz, I'm wondering what phase of the moon it is. There are many, many worse things in the world by which one can become agitated. A free and unbridled exchange of thoughts should not cause one to come undone. "Lord Hamlet, with his doublet all unbraced", let's not go there, okay?
/Re-ties doublet

443 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:04pm

re: #438 Son of the Black Dog

Glad to know I'm not the only one with this quirk.

I do that too. I also ride a commuter train every day and try to keep an eye out for anyone who might drop a bag off and leave the car.

444 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:04pm

re: #416 irongrampa

Do you think it's perhaps a symptom of what seems to be the general mood lately? I've noticed in general interaction in the real world the same thing evidenced here.

I know that my own temper has been less-than-even, lately.

445 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:22pm

re: #407 DistantThunder

Cindy Sheehan is in Dallas protesting president Bush with 50 people this week. She's demanding he be investigated.

Cindy Sheehan is a sad woman who needs psychological help, and whose doubtless profound grief has been exploited by many.

446 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:24pm

re: #429 Honorary Yooper

I hate the whole concept of "Whale Wars". All it does is to glorify piracy, and I have a hard time sympathizing with pirates. Granted, I hate whaling, but I also hate pirates.

The Animal Channel has some of the goriest shows. Especially the animal rescue shows. Larry King was bowing down before the Whale Wars cast.

447 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:24pm

re: #427 _RememberTonyC

somewhere in an underground bunker near washington, DC patrick buchanan is secretly rejoicing.

Between appearances on that extreme right wing outlet, MSNBC.

448 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:25pm

Shepard Smith is a doofus. He is the type of guy who in the gym locker room would get a wedgie.

449 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:25pm

re: #433 DANEgerus

The anti Semites inhabit all corners of the political spectrum. They aren't just on the left or the right.

Keep in mind that more than a few of the 9/11 troofers put Jews in the heart of the conspiracy - remember that one of their first memes was that Jews were given special warning of the attacks and weren't there that day.

There's plenty of anti Semitism to go around, and Brunn is just one more. Sadly, he wont be the last one either.

450 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:34pm

re: #438 Son of the Black Dog

Glad to know I'm not the only one with this quirk.


I'm the same way.

But it comes from living in Israel for 10+ years and suddenly sitting in places in the US without guards.

451 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:35pm

re: #418 Thanos

Np, I just hate it when people deny empirical fact, I gets all twitchy I does...

The Empirical Strikes Back!
/heh

452 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:09:41pm

re: #415 lobo91

Mostly, I think they want to separate everyone not like them from the country entirely.

And separate Jews from life.

453 Baier  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:10:17pm

re: #444 Dianna

I know that my own temper has been less-than-even, lately.

Mine too. I get aggravated by the news lately. I need to relax a bit.

454 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:10:43pm

re: #445 iceweasel

Cindy Sheehan is a sad woman who needs psychological help, and whose doubtless profound grief has been exploited by many.

Mostly by herself.

455 Baier  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:11:10pm

re: #448 Joel

Shepard Smith is a doofus. He is the type of guy who in the gym locker room would get a wedgie.

I like Shepard Smith, as far as news presenters go.

456 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:11:15pm

re: #442 NelsFree

Just relax, Loppy. Gee whiz, I'm wondering what phase of the moon it is. There are many, many worse things in the world by which one can become agitated. A free and unbridled exchange of thoughts should not cause one to come undone. "Lord Hamlet, with his doublet all unbraced", let's not go there, okay?
/Re-ties doublet

Today happens to be a disseminating moon, one quarter past the full.

Whatever that implies.

457 Catttt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:11:17pm

re: #442 NelsFree

Just relax, Loppy. Gee whiz, I'm wondering what phase of the moon it is. There are many, many worse things in the world by which one can become agitated. A free and unbridled exchange of thoughts should not cause one to come undone. "Lord Hamlet, with his doublet all unbraced", let's not go there, okay?
/Re-ties doublet

Waning gibbous, 86% of full.

458 capitalist piglet  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:11:21pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The Fox news audience is getting spooky and dangerous.

So is the MSNBC audience.

459 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:11:32pm

re: #389 Dianna

Please note that I am making no comments on gotc's decision, her prayer list, her character or anything else. She's not here and can't type for herself; that's my only point.

I just wish everyone would settle down a little.

Now I am not equating the two, but neither can Pam Geller. And she's fair game for criticism. All Day Long.

460 Sheepdogess  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:11:35pm

I feel my freedom slipping away more and more every day. Anyone else feel that way?

Speaking of freedom, I still have not heard our prez utter the words freedom or liberty.

NOT.
ONCE.

461 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:11:43pm

re: #455 Baier

I like Shepard Smith, as far as news presenters go.

SPLITTER!

462 Baier  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:12:11pm

re: #461 Ben Hur

SPLITTER!

heh, what does that mean?!?

463 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:12:20pm

re: #441 doppelganglander

We're a Church, Not a Lobby, Catholic Bishop Tells Ethics Probers

So, state meddling in church affairs = good, but trying to prevent state meddling in church affairs = bad? WTF is wrong with the Connecticut Legislature?

What was the racial make-up of this protest? These day it makes all the difference whether it's allowable or not.

464 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:12:35pm

re: #447 loppyd

Between appearances on that extreme right wing outlet, MSNBC.

The very sight of Pat Buchenwald raises my blood pressure. He has a man crush on Benjamin Netanyahu as every column is about him (nothing positive, just Israel bashing).

465 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:12:49pm

re: #443 Leonidas Hoplite

I do that too. I also ride a commuter train every day and try to keep an eye out for anyone who might drop a bag off and leave the car.

"I was riding a train. Somebody drinking tea took his teabag out and dropped it on the floor, then left the car. Suddenly, five Starbucks travel mugs jumped off the train."
/more channelling Steve Wright

466 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:13pm

re: #460 Sheepdogess

I feel my freedom slipping away more and more every day. Anyone else feel that way?

Speaking of freedom, I still have not heard our prez utter the words freedom or liberty.

NOT.
ONCE.

We will all be serfs to the national debt soon.

467 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:17pm

re: #457 Catttt

Waning gibbous, 86% of full.

Not according to my calender. See #456. Shall we arm wrestle over it?

468 A.W.  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:24pm

I don't know--I am actually asking this--but really is it such a good thing to have us obsessing on this idiot?

Okay anti-simitic truther idiot. got it.

But we barely know anything about the people he shot.

Like i said, i really just don't know.

469 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:28pm

re: #455 Baier

I like Shepard Smith, as far as news presenters go.

I find him to be too hysterical for my taste, and too prone to report rumors as fact. Anyone remember his performance in New Orleans after Katrina?

470 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:30pm

Note Found in von Brunn's Car


"You want my weapons -- this is how you'll get them. The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media."
471 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:37pm
472 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:40pm

re: #436 Cato the Elder

Gotc explained her nic a number of times. I understand yours - you censorious old coot! - but I happen to like history.

473 Last Mohican  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:49pm

re: #433 DANEgerus

Like I said... the DHS report was a smear against the military

No it's not. Here, read it.

474 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:52pm

re: #455 Baier

I like Shepard Smith, as far as news presenters go.

I dislike him intensely. he is not funny and his faux cutesy mannerisms is annoying.

475 jcm  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:59pm

re: #412 hazzyday

My impression of that is that how she feels about herself. She would undergo the sterilization if she had two unplanned pregnancies. The interesting part is the role of government. I always think religious people have the burden of trying to achieve their goals through personal example and not Government control. Making the government do it for you takes all the fun out of it. Maybe GoTC is giving up.

I have started to think lately that the government should geocode all thieves with a sub cutaneous chip. Or that we should psychological label all these Army of God and White Supremacist people. It seems just too much bother to even tolerate them. I wonder why I want to live in a society where they are allowed to run loose.

But the underpinnings of free will and democracy I can say I don't comprehend well enough to make a wise choice.

Our Liberty is two fold, it's a too sided coin. Freedom and Responsibility.
One of Liberties costs is to be responsible in word and action.

As a society, somewhere we decided "tolerance" is a a core value. Freedom has become license with no responsibility. Tolerance is not a core value, it is a path to national suicide. We cannot, should not tolerate the intolerable. When some one becomes irresponsible, it's our duty to say, "sit down, shut up, knock it off" not tolerate it. If we did that early and more often, we wouldn't have people get so far off the reservation, they would have already been guided in responsibility.

476 hazzyday  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:13:59pm

re: #422 Joel

And if they do, so what? The Internet is open to all. I occasionally check out The Daily Kos and Crooks & Liars, I haven't died yet because of it.

A level of discrimination and commitment is needed to achieve goals. Read the stalker blog and you will see it's a form of insincere imitation and mockery. Hang your hat on that all you want. There are much better places to achieve unrestricted expression with the trolls that go along with that.

I was reading a game forum last week and every single comment was juvenile and unfocused. Threads hundreds of comments long. Saying nothing. What a colossal waste of my time. Why was I there? I still don't know.

477 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:14:07pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Note Found in von Brunn's Car

Sounds like a Jeremiah Wright sermon.

478 redstateredneck  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:14:10pm

re: #447 loppyd

Between appearances on that extreme right wing outlet, MSNBC.

I've been watching "Morning Joe" on MSNBC and Pat is practically a regular.
Guess I'm gonna have to go back to "Fox & Friends", although they can get so damn silly at times.

479 Catttt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:14:21pm

re: #413 loppyd

Heh.

480 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:14:43pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media.

I want my money and my own network TV show NOW!

481 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:14:49pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Note Found in von Brunn's Car

I think Rev. Wright would agree with the Jews part.

482 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:05pm

re: #456 Cato the Elder

Today happens to be a disseminating moon, one quarter past the full.

Whatever that implies.

Thank you for disseminating that fact to us all. Now give me your brain.
/brain

483 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:10pm

re: #444 Dianna

I know that my own temper has been less-than-even, lately.

For understandable reason.

484 lobo91  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:10pm

re: #469 Honorary Yooper

I find him to be too hysterical for my taste, and too prone to report rumors as fact. Anyone remember his performance in New Orleans after Katrina?

I do.

He belongs on MSNBC.

485 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:25pm

re: #454 Kenneth

Mostly by herself.

Maybe. I'm willing to give her the benefit of some doubt because I can't imagine what it's like to lose a child. I think she's been running from grief and thrown herself into a lot of questionable activity as a result.

I blame the people who used her a lot more than I blame her personally.

486 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:29pm

re: #456 Cato the Elder

Today happens to be a disseminating moon, one quarter past the full.

Whatever that implies.

487 loppyd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:38pm

re: #478 redstateredneck

I've been watching "Morning Joe" on MSNBC and Pat is practically a regular.
Guess I'm gonna have to go back to "Fox & Friends", although they can get so damn silly at times.

I also watch Morning Joe because Gretchen Carlson is unwatchable....

When Uncle Pat is on I switch to local news.

488 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:46pm
489 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:15:54pm

re: #447 loppyd

Between appearances on that extreme right wing outlet, MSNBC.


MSNBC is obviously the opposite of a "right wing" outlet, but their employment of buchanan as the "house conservative" shows that they are willing to use him to represent the right, even though he represents only the paleocon fringe on the far right..

490 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:01pm

re: #404 Eowyn2

Does anyone know what the Responsible White Seperatists want to separate from or where they plan on going to?

How do separate 1/2 the nation from the other 1/2?
Who gets what?
Is the country divided by
'You folks can live here between I-15 and I-30, between I-90 and I-80
'You folks can live from I-80 to I-70.
or
'you white separatists get the thumb of Michigan's mitten.
'you black separtists get the Sault St Marie area of Michigan

As far as I'm concerned, we can build the white separatists some shacks in Fairbanks, or maybe higher up. All that snow should make them happy. White everywhere they look.

491 Abu Lahab  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:09pm

But there is a spot of light in spite of this disgusting attack:
Anti-Semitic Incidents Decline for Fourth Straight Year in U.S., According to Annual ADL Audit
This is the opposite of what's happening in Europe.

492 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:41pm

re: #488 buzzsawmonkey

If Jews controlled the mass media, I'd have Letterman's spot right now.

If that happened, I'd go buy a TV!

493 Dianna  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:42pm

re: #459 haakondahl

Now I am not equating the two, but neither can Pam Geller. And she's fair game for criticism. All Day Long.

If you really want to go read PG's...material, go right ahead. Mock away.

My whole objection was making comments about nics - which seemed childish to me.

494 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:45pm

re: #431 Killgore Trout

I think in light of the recent violence they're really going to throw the book at him.

A library might work better than just a solitary book.

495 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:46pm

re: #404 Eowyn2

Does anyone know what the Responsible White Seperatists want to separate from or where they plan on going to?

How do separate 1/2 the nation from the other 1/2?
Who gets what?
Is the country divided by
'You folks can live here between I-15 and I-30, between I-90 and I-80
'You folks can live from I-80 to I-70.
or
'you white separatists get the thumb of Michigan's mitten.
'you black separtists get the Sault St Marie area of Michigan

Oh, that's simple. White people will live above the ground, and everybody else will live under it. Kind of like the two-state solution proposed by HAMAS.

496 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:54pm
497 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:16:54pm

re: #488 buzzsawmonkey

If Jews controlled the mass media, I'd have Letterman's spot right now.


Just stop paying him Buzzsaw...He'll get the message eventually..

498 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:00pm

Rand Simberg writing today, notes that Brunn's writings indicate he's a socialist, not a right winger. "“Socialism represents the future of the west.”"

A full blown wackaloon? Absolutely.

499 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:02pm

re: #462 Baier

heh, what does that mean?!?


500 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:06pm

re: #280 reine.de.tout

Hi Reine

Let me tell you a little story.
Not too long ago (10 yrs?)
The police were called to investigate a parked car a block away from my mother's house.

When the police opened the trunk, they found not one, but two birthed infants. Both had been born alive (air had gotten into their lungs) about 10 months apart. The woman (late 20s) who had given birth to these infants was a meth addict and the babies would have been meth babies but they had a chance at survival. Her family did not know she had ever been pregnant.

Does the state have the right to put her on a long term birth control or sterilize her?

Reverse the situation to the male perspective.
If a man has fathered 20 kids from different women and shows no sign of changing his actions or supporting his offspring, does the state have the right to have him snipped and clipped?

I think it is something that should at least be an open discussion.

501 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:21pm

re: #481 DistantThunder

If I convert to reform Judaism do I get a smaller share of the loot? I like my cheeseburgers.

502 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:22pm

We owe the Chinese plenty. I'm not aware that Judaism has conquered China. We've already started to inflate our way out of the problem. That's what Carter did back in the 70s. I don't approve it. It's just fact.

If you're living on a fixed income, you have a big problem.

503 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:22pm

re: #460 Sheepdogess

I feel my freedom slipping away more and more every day. Anyone else feel that way?

Not really.

Speaking of freedom, I still have not heard our prez utter the words freedom or liberty.

NOT.
ONCE.

Inaugural speech:

Freedom: 3x
Liberty: 2x

Source.

You are still free to make an ass of yourself, apparently.

504 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:40pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Behind every one of his beliefs is an undying hatred of Jews.

505 Scion9  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:17:46pm

re: #404 Eowyn2

Does anyone know what the Responsible White Seperatists want to separate from or where they plan on going to?

How do separate 1/2 the nation from the other 1/2?
Who gets what?
Is the country divided by
'You folks can live here between I-15 and I-30, between I-90 and I-80
'You folks can live from I-80 to I-70.
or
'you white separatists get the thumb of Michigan's mitten.
'you black separtists get the Sault St Marie area of Michigan

"Separatist" was a less incendiary label applied to certain Ethnic Nationalist and Irredentist groups by the media. These groups have simply adopted that white-washed label for themselves, but of course you have hit upon what 'separatism' actually means.

These 'White Separatist' groups are typically followers of a philosophy that see the British Isles, Continental Europe and their predominantly 'white' colonial offspring such as Australia and North America as an irredenta white homeland. So what do the 'White Separatists' get? All of that, by 'separating' all the non-whites somewhere to the other half of the globe.

506 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:18:06pm

re: #481 DistantThunder

I think Rev. Wright would agree with the Jews part.

Heh. How true, given Wright's recent comments about Jews limiting his access to Obama.

507 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:18:11pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Note Found in von Brunn's Car

"You want my weapons -- this is how you'll get them. The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media."

Sounds like Jeremiah Wright.

508 Ben Hur  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:18:47pm

al-Waleed controls the American media.

509 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:18:57pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Anyone check to see if this isn't a Rev. Wright sermon?

510 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:19:03pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

My father, a retired physician, is one of them. And he has compelling arguments for his position.

Unfortunately his and many other doctors' first choice, a single-payer health system, is not even being discussed by the so-called reformers. Respected physicians who tried to speak about it were forcibly ejected from the Senate hearings. The Chairman oh-so-democratically refused to give any time at all to the proposal of these experienced doctors.

The members of the "reform" movement in Congress are bought-and-paid-for insurance "industry" shills. The most we're going to get is tinkering around the edges of a failed system, with the guaranteed result that the failure will be even bigger in future. We will continue to pay twice as much in GDP percentage terms for half as much as other countries get. America will continue to be the milch cow of the pharmaceuticals business, while people elsewhere get medicines at reasonable cost because the governments negotiate reimbursement rates. Canada will continue to have lower infant mortality than the US because of their emphasis on preventive medicine. England will still have the NHS, with which most citizens are quite satisfied, and no politician who would suggest that they go to the American "model" (read: shambles, in the sense of abattoir) stands a chance of election.

We'll be lucky to get some protection against cherry-picking and a few paltry tax credits to pay for crappy policies that disappear when we need them.

I must strongly disagree with that take:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

[Link: spectator.org...]

I learned a lot on this subject from Betsy McCaughey at a Manhattan Institute presentation: she had a wealth of data, statistics, and comparative analysis (touched upon in the last link) that address the issues you raised.

It may be worth your time to read her detailed article.

511 jcm  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:19:20pm

re: #430 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grin/snicker/chortle/CACKLE/SHRIEK!*
I love it!

We've got a minor glitch in a HV op amp output circuit. There's a lo-level burst of noise several mS after applying power to the amp. I figger its something oscillating inside the op amp itself as the internal currents settle out to quiescent.

Should we consult a witch doctor?

Turn unit on, slap sharply on the side, go get a cup of coffee, come back and it should work fine......

Blown bypass cap not sinking the inrush current spike?

512 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:19:22pm

re: #12 lawhawk

Fancy that this guy has links to all the fashionable white nationalist and other extremist groups you can think of. The one tie that binds them all together is anti Semitism.


While the above was sung by Pink in Pink Floyd's The Wall, it could just as easily come from Brunn's sick twisted mind.

I'm sure the all also hate black people and Latino people. These folks are kind of consistent.

513 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:19:26pm

re: #500 Eowyn2

Forced sterilization is unconstitutional. Skinner v. Oklahoma. Game over.

514 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:19:38pm

re: #481 DistantThunder

I think Rev. Wright would agree with the Jews part.

Good thing their mutual hatred for each other keeps the white racists and the Wright faction from getting together.

515 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:19:53pm

re: #502 quickjustice

If you're living on a fixed income, you have a big problem.

Correction. Very big problem.

516 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:20:09pm

OT - CIA says Bin Laden in Pakistan. (but is he alive?)

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

517 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:20:16pm

re: #463 DistantThunder

What was the racial make-up of this protest? These day it makes all the difference whether it's allowable or not.

I don't believe there's a racial angle to this, but I'd expect a crowd of Connecticut Catholics to be mostly white. What I find disturbing is first of all, what business does the state have in determining how church finances are handled? Secondly, the state appears to be very selectively using the lobbying law to suppress speech they don't like and prevent freedom of assembly. If the courts side with the legislature, they'll manage to violate all clauses of the first amendment at once.

518 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:20:40pm

re: #488 buzzsawmonkey

If Jews controlled the mass media, I'd have Letterman's spot right now.

You'd be a lot funnier, with all the song parodies.

519 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:20:42pm

re: #487 loppyd

I also watch Morning Joe because Gretchen Carlson is unwatchable....

When Uncle Pat is on I switch to local news.

I used to love it when Juliet Huddey was a hostess (weekends). Steve Doocy is also a bit of a doofus. Ive been taking to watching infomercials on how I can become a millionaire buying foreclosed property. Less aggravating!

520 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:20:59pm

re: #394 NelsFree

why are you putting wintergreen sprigs in lemonaid?
does it give it a crisper cooler taste.

521 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:21:07pm

re: #500 Eowyn2

Hi Reine

Let me tell you a little story.
Not too long ago (10 yrs?)
The police were called to investigate a parked car a block away from my mother's house.

When the police opened the trunk, they found not one, but two birthed infants. Both had been born alive (air had gotten into their lungs) about 10 months apart. The woman (late 20s) who had given birth to these infants was a meth addict and the babies would have been meth babies but they had a chance at survival. Her family did not know she had ever been pregnant.

Does the state have the right to put her on a long term birth control or sterilize her?

Reverse the situation to the male perspective.
If a man has fathered 20 kids from different women and shows no sign of changing his actions or supporting his offspring, does the state have the right to have him snipped and clipped?

I think it is something that should at least be an open discussion.



The story of a man who fathered 21 children is unfolding in Knoxville

Hatchett, who earns a minimal wage, told TV reporters he knows the names and ages of all his offspring.

Their ages range from newborn to 11 years old.

Authorities in Knoxville said they plan to take half of his monthly salary to pay for the youngsters but officials said that would work out to just over £1 a week for each.

His lawyer Keith Pope said: 'The children can't all be supported by Desmond, so the state of Tennessee has had to step in.'

Many Knoxville residents called for him to be castrated.

He even boasted of fathering four children by different women in the same year.

522 Kenneth  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:21:10pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Line by line left-right analysis:

"You want my weapons -- this is how you'll get them." = right wing extremist

"The Holocaust is a lie."
= Used to be right wing extremist, now the extreme left has joined in.

Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media." = left wing extremist and right wing extremist again.

523 badger1970  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:21:21pm

Since no "wing" wants to claim Von Brunn, they are trying to brand him right or left to make the representative side look bad. When extreme wings get violent, they are one and the same. This guy was a vile, hateful, anti-semetic, psychotic, son of a bitch. As for which wing he belonged, who cares, because each extreme tip of the wings are anti-semetic.

524 Macker  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:22:01pm

re: #501 Killgore Trout

If I convert to reform Judaism do I get a smaller share of the loot? I like my cheeseburgers.

I look at it like this: I'd rather be non-Kosher (and for that matter, haraam) so my Jewish friends CAN be Kosher!

525 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:22:02pm

re: #395 iceweasel

If the eco-terrorists or radical animal rights groups start bombing labs and shooting researchers again, you can bet your bippy we'll be hearing about 'left wing extremists'.

Right wing extremists come out of the woodwork under a Dem admin. That's what we're seeing now.

Nope. Then they're eco-terrorists, radical animal rights activists, anti-globalization activists, and so forth.

But you're still right, I think, about why the right is melting down. I said last night (or the night before) that under Bush, the left slowly went insane in public, while the right slowly went insane in private, partly as a reaction to rampant BDS. When The left was elected, the right's craziness sprang up, pre-formed. And it's getting ugly all over, left and right.

526 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:22:12pm

OT but I think this needed some extra attention here:
Guitar legend Huey Long dies at 105

Guitar legend Huey Long, the last surviving member of the original Ink Spots, died June 10 in Houston at the age of 105.

Long was born in Sealy, Texas.

He worked various jobs in the Houston area until he got his big break playing banjo in the Frank Davis Louisiana Jazz Band.

In 1936, Bill Kenny, the leader of the Ink Spots, talked Long into leaving the jazz trio joining the Ink Spots.

Long showed incredible musical versatility, mastering R&B, jazz and bebop. He often switched back and forth between the banjo and the guitar.

527 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:22:24pm

re: #66 MandyManners

Is neocon a code for some meaning Jews or supporters of Israel?

From what I've seen, "neocon" is a code meaning "not nearly authoritarian enough."

528 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:22:47pm

re: #443 Leonidas Hoplite

I do that too. I also ride a commuter train every day and try to keep an eye out for anyone who might drop a bag off and leave the car.

And when I'm boarding an airplane, I give the other passengers a real good looking over. And I don't mean the ones who look like Pamela Anderson.

529 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:22:55pm

re: #517 doppelganglander

I don't believe there's a racial angle to this, but I'd expect a crowd of Connecticut Catholics to be mostly white. What I find disturbing is first of all, what business does the state have in determining how church finances are handled? Secondly, the state appears to be very selectively using the lobbying law to suppress speech they don't like and prevent freedom of assembly. If the courts side with the legislature, they'll manage to violate all clauses of the first amendment at once.

Well of course, I should have added a /s.

530 opnion  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:23:10pm

re: #481 DistantThunder

I think Rev. Wright would agree with the Jews part.

Hmmm, & some prominent American sat in those pews for twenty years.
Now who was that? It'll come tome.

531 hazzyday  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:23:14pm

re: #397 quickjustice

I don't know whether she's a "fine person" or not. I know she expressed Christian piety on this blog. I also know what I read on the stalker site. Without attacking her, I'd say she has issues. (I'll add that I have issues myself of a different sort.)

Lol yah. My judgment in "fine people" is often proven wrong. It's a learning experience I don't seem to learn.

532 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:23:34pm

re: #511 jcm

Turn unit on, slap sharply on the side, go get a cup of coffee, come back and it should work fine......

Blown bypass cap not sinking the inrush current spike?

Don't think it's the filtering.
Have six prototypes, same behavior on all.
Put simply, the variables seem (seem) to point to the op amps.
Luckily, the client seems to think it's not a serious problem.

533 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:23:37pm

re: #460 Sheepdogess

I feel my freedom slipping away more and more every day. Anyone else feel that way?

No, I don't. I feel more obliged to defend my freedoms, but I don't feel them slipping away.

534 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:23:37pm

re: #495 haakondahl

Oh, that's simple. White people will live above the ground, and everybody else will live under it. Kind of like the two-state solution proposed by HAMAS.

Mixed race peoples get the windowed basements?

535 badger1970  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:23:53pm

re: #474 Joel

He also has a rap sheet. / Mug Shot

536 redstateredneck  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:24:29pm

re: #521 DistantThunder

Hatchett, who earns a minimal wage, told TV reporters he knows the names and ages of all his offspring.


Well, good for him. I'd say he's a candidate for Father of the Year.
/not

537 NelsFree  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:24:32pm

Must mow lawn. BBL.

538 lobo91  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:24:36pm

re: #513 quickjustice

Forced sterilization is unconstitutional. Skinner v. Oklahoma. Game over.

"Separate but equal" accomodations are constitutional. Plessy v. Ferguson.

(and no, I don't agree with that decision...just pointing out that Supreme Court decisions don't always equal "game over")

539 DistantThunder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:24:39pm

re: #530 opnion

Hmmm, & some prominent American sat in those pews for twenty years.
Now who was that? It'll come tome.

Any negative reference to Jews should feel like a slap to the face of the average Christian. So someone who tolerates it for 20 years, OBVIOUSLY agrees with it.

540 Lincolntf  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:24:48pm

re: #515 Leonidas Hoplite

If Obama "fixes" incomes anything like he "fixed" unemployment, we're all screwed.

541 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:25:54pm

re: #528 Son of the Black Dog

And when I'm boarding an airplane, I give the other passengers a real good looking over. And I don't mean just the ones who look like Pamela Anderson.

FTFY

542 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:26:13pm

re: #535 badger1970

He also has a rap sheet. / Mug Shot

yes I have seen that before.

543 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:26:38pm

re: #448 Joel

Shepard Smith is a doofus. He is the type of guy who in the gym locker room would get a wedgie.

I disagree. Sometimes it takes more guts to call crazy "crazy" than to keep on the good side of the "tough guys" echo chamber.

544 opnion  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:26:39pm

re: #539 DistantThunder

Any negative reference to Jews should feel like a slap to the face of the average Christian. So someone who tolerates it for 20 years, OBVIOUSLY agrees with it.

If that individual did not agree, he would have quit going.

545 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:26:43pm

An extremist is an extremist is an extremist. Racists usually are assigned to the extremist right. Identity politics extremists, who advocate for class warfare based upon race, ethnicity, or gender, generally are assigned to the left.

The shooter hated the Bushes and Republicans. He was a self-identified racist. He hated Jews. He was prepared to resort to violence in defense of his ideals. As a conservative, I'd say that places him on the extreme right.

546 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:26:44pm

re: #534 Eowyn2

Mixed race peoples get the windowed basements?

Still haven't found a way to split that ba--Hey!

547 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:27:03pm

re: #540 Lincolntf

If Obama "fixes" incomes anything like he "fixed" unemployment, we're all screwed.

Indeed. I know I'm screwed and am beginning to come to grips with it, the thing that pisses me off is the future my kids have. Hopefully it won't be as bad as I think.

548 doppelganglander  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:27:13pm

re: #529 DistantThunder

Well of course, I should have added a /s.

Ah, it makes much more sense that way!

549 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:27:31pm

re: #521 DistantThunder

His lawyer Keith Pope said: 'The children can't all be supported by Desmond, so the state of Tennessee has had to step in.'

Minimum wage - can support 1 child if he is very frugal.

550 jcm  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:27:42pm

re: #532 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Don't think it's the filtering.
Have six prototypes, same behavior on all.
Put simply, the variables seem (seem) to point to the op amps.
Luckily, the client seems to think it's not a serious problem.

Call the rep and see what they say. We got a batch of O'scopes in, all of had a screen failure within weeks....

Good thing the customer isn't worried.

551 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:27:47pm

re: #47 littleoldlady

OY! :-(

/actually, I was snarking about how mainstream the "responsible white separatist community" is...

After the shooting at the LA JCC--God, that was ten years ago--when Joseph Ileto was killed--I turned on the TV to check what was happening. There was this pretty girl, with long dark hair, holding a toddler and talking to the news people, and I assumed, I just assumed that she was one of the JCC daycare people.

Then the camera panned back, and I could see the tin roofs with the swastikas painted on them, and I turned up the sound and realized she was one of the residents at the white separatist community the shooter lived at for a time.

Freaked me out. I felt so warmly toward her before I realized who she was.

552 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:28:17pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Note Found in von Brunn's Car

"You want my weapons -- this is how you'll get them. The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media."

"P.S. Sorry about the double-parking"

553 Sheepdogess  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:28:28pm

re: #477 loppyd

Sounds like a Jeremiah Wright sermon.

I think the Rev. Wright hated more...
IIRC... he said

GD the Jews,
GD America
GD white people and
GD the military

Didn't that "so called" church give their man of the year award to the hater Louis Farrakhan?

That's about 300,000,000 folks in America and Israel alone. Doesn't even include the whites in Europe or Canada.

Hmm...I think the Reverend Wright should be charged with a hate crime.

554 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:28:33pm

re: #543 ShanghaiEd

I disagree. Sometimes it takes more guts to call crazy "crazy" than to keep on the good side of the "tough guys" echo chamber.

I am not sure what you are talking about.

555 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:30:06pm

re: #76 Cato the Elder

This is why I pray he pulls through and lives to see trial. Stormfront's worst nightmare: A respected member of the community with the muzzle off, ranting and raving from the dock, with national news media noting every word and every connection.

They were already wetting themselves about this yesterday.

Do they actually think they have a scrap of respectability to lose?

556 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:30:34pm

re: #544 opnion

If that individual did not agree, he would have quit going.

Unless of course he never really went that much, but found it expedient to claim that he did. In such a case, his wife would probably have been the church-goer. Of course, this is all hypothetical--nobody would do this, because they would have to know that the press would eventually get to the bottom of it.

I guess you're right.

557 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:30:34pm

re: #551 SanFranciscoZionist

Freaked me out. I felt so warmly toward her before I realized who she was.

The banality of evil.

558 hazzyday  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:30:37pm

re: #502 quickjustice

We owe the Chinese plenty. I'm not aware that Judaism has conquered China. We've already started to inflate our way out of the problem. That's what Carter did back in the 70s. I don't approve it. It's just fact.

If you're living on a fixed income, you have a big problem.

I know some Chinese that consider Jewish people kissing cousins.

559 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:30:51pm

To go from 6:00 PM (first Brit Hume and now Bret Baier) to 7:00 PM (Shepard Smith) on FOX is like going from a date with Catherine Zeta-Jones to a date with Joy(less) Behar.

560 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:31:57pm

re: #85 John Neverbend

Based on the flimsy assumption that he knew what he was saying when he condemned Jews-Neocons-Bill O'Reilly, it would appear that the set of neocons contains members who are not Jews.

It's sort of like 'international bankers'. The group is not actually made up only, or even primarily, of Jews, it's just a code word for Jews.

561 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:31:59pm

re: #553 Sheepdogess

Wright is an extreme leftist for one reason only. He's black, and therefore a member of an "oppressed" group. He can utter any bigoted words or phrases he wants, and it's excused because of his inherent racial victimhood. That's the essence of identity politics.

562 Catttt  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:32:33pm

re: #3 Son of the Black Dog

How does anybody's social security get cut? No way I know of, unless he'd been overpaid in the past. Delusional.

Possibly the Government Pension Offset and/or Windfall Elimination Provision of the Social Security Act was rattling around in his sick mind. The Social Security Fairness Act of 2009, which has bipartisan support, would repeal those provisions.

563 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:32:56pm

re: #513 quickjustice

having an opinion on the matter is not unconstitutional.

564 Wishbone  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:34:01pm

re: #462 Baier

heh, what does that mean?!?

Blimey.............. Either you're taking the piss or you need to be locked in a room with a copy of Life of Brian, a big TV and a bong until you have a hernia.

565 quickjustice  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:34:22pm

re: #563 Eowyn2

Sure, and arguing about slavery isn't unconstitutional either. The biggest practitioner of forced sterilization is the Communist Chinese government.

566 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:34:23pm

re: #561 quickjustice

Wright is an extreme leftist for one reason only. He's black, and therefore a member of an "oppressed" group. He can utter any bigoted words or phrases he wants, and it's excused because of his inherent racial victimhood. That's the essence of identity politics.

That and the flaming Socialism.

567 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:35:03pm

re: #562 Catttt

Possibly the Government Pension Offset and/or Windfall Elimination Provision of the Social Security Act was rattling around in his sick mind. The Social Security Fairness Act of 2009, which has bipartisan support, would repeal those provisions.

Look at the big brain on Catttt!

568 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:35:09pm

re: #510 medaura18586

I must strongly disagree with that take:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

[Link: spectator.org...]

I learned a lot on this subject from Betsy McCaughey at a Manhattan Institute presentation: she had a wealth of data, statistics, and comparative analysis (touched upon in the last link) that address the issues you raised.

It may be worth your time to read her detailed article.

I certainly shall.

What part of my "take" (read: rambling rant) did you disagree with? The exclusion of the single-payer option is fact. I didn't say I was for it, only that my father is. I am not conversant enough with economics to judge.

I do believe I've read that the Canadians and Brits are far more satisfied with their health plans than the hysterical insurance "industry"* and its paid flacks would have us think. That again would seem to be a plain fact, whatever the objective pros and cons are. We're led to believe that all those guys are just aching to have our non-system instead, and it seems that's a canard.

What about the GDP figures? I've seen them for years. Are they fiddled? I wouldn't be surprised either way.

As for what we're going to get, surely we can agree that hacking away at a rotten tree from three different sides with an axe, a hatchet and a power saw is not likely to produce anything but a dead tree and lots of wood chips for the lumberjacks to fight over. I'm not expecting any improvement, that's for sure.

What's needed is a systemic reform à la Bismarck, but no one has the guts or the political capital for that. So we'll get a patch on a patch on a patchwork, and no one but the people who siphon money out for "running" the "system" will be happy.

[*Everything's a bloody "industry" now. Not a service, not a branch of commerce, but an "industry". Drives me crazy.]

569 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:35:26pm

re: #470 Killgore Trout

Note Found in von Brunn's Car

sounds like he was really pissed at Obama. Could Obama's visit to the ME and telling the Muslims that they have to stop misbehaving have set him off?

570 Baelzar  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:35:56pm

What the fuck?

I know lots of Libertarians and Paleocons; NONE OF WHICH are white supremacists, skinheads, or any of the crazy bullshit that seems to be the definition around here.

What reputable source defines Libertarians or Paleocons as such? Just because some racist idiot calls himself something doesn't mean you change the definition of the word.

571 Scion9  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:37:02pm

re: #510 medaura18586

I concur with your disagreement.


We will continue to pay twice as much in GDP percentage terms for half as much as other countries get. America will continue to be the milch cow of the pharmaceuticals business, while people elsewhere get medicines at reasonable cost because the governments negotiate reimbursement rates.

The reason Americans pay more isn't because we don't "negotiate" reimbursement rates. A great many European countries, including France don't negotiate at all. It is more a long the lines of confiscation of goods from pharmaceutical companies. The government pays cost basically and Euro pharmaceutical companies make the lion's share of their profits off of America's broken system. If they couldn't make that profit abroad they wouldn't be in the business of making drugs.

Things cost so much here, in part because we are subsidizing the cost of Europe's healthcare system. If we adopted their model and simply took what we wanted from pharma and medtech companies and offered them virtually no reimbursement at all they would collapse because there would literally be no market and no profits to be had.

This is why the European system isn't even on the table here. If we adopted it, all the other countries that we are paying for would have to start paying their share of the burden, which they can't and won't do. We pay twice as much as France in taxes towards healthcare for much, much less in results not because "The System" is bad here and good in France, but because French taxpayers aren't paying in full for what is being provided from their private sector; American taxpayers, consumers, and 'excess' profits from the global marketplaces are.

572 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:37:15pm

re: #570 Baelzar

What the fuck?

I know lots of Libertarians and Paleocons; NONE OF WHICH are white supremacists, skinheads, or any of the crazy bullshit that seems to be the definition around here.

What reputable source defines Libertarians or Paleocons as such? Just because some racist idiot calls himself something doesn't mean you change the definition of the word.

Well, ya got your Salamantis.

573 Baier  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:38:44pm

re: #469 Honorary Yooper

I find him to be too hysterical for my taste, and too prone to report rumors as fact. Anyone remember his performance in New Orleans after Katrina?

Yeah, I know where you're coming from and I see that. But as far as TV news personalities go, I don't think he's so bad. He has a persona. But I agree, I saw the post Katrina coverage, he was ridiculous.

574 hazzyday  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:38:57pm

re: #560 SanFranciscoZionist

It's sort of like 'international bankers'. The group is not actually made up only, or even primarily, of Jews, it's just a code word for Jews.

My historical understanding of that is that Jews were discriminated in professions and had to adapt to the one the gentiles thought were too dirty. Banking and money lending fell into that category. It's a gentile created system. That and combined with religious intolerance produces this line of thinking.

Why these people in the world today hate jews is beyond me. It approaches a psychotic obsession. The best way to turn a new page in history is to call people and countries out on this false belief system they have. Saudia Arabia is a country that we shouldn't just tolerate their anti-semtisim because they have oil. I think we have seen if the price of gas rises, people will cut back on their oil consumption.

575 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:39:06pm

re: #555 SanFranciscoZionist

Do they actually think they have a scrap of respectability to lose?

Apparently they do, if they distinguish between "responsible" and "irresponsible" white separatists.

576 Eowyn2  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:40:45pm

re: #565 quickjustice

Sure, and arguing about slavery isn't unconstitutional either. The biggest practitioner of forced sterilization is the Communist Chinese government.

You are correct. They sterilize everyone. and spy to make sure you do not have more than one child without state sanction.

You use slavery, I will use: we have the constitutional right to keep and bear arms but that doesn't mean that people cant try to make them illegal.

I am not advocating sterilization willy nilly. I am not advocating forced strilization at all. What I am saying is that I THINK that since the state (you and I) have to support the children that accompanies mass baby producers, the state should have some way to prevent more pregnancies.

577 razorbacker  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:41:08pm

re: #526 Shiplord Kirel

You'd have thought that they'd have given him props for being King of Louisiana once, too.


What?


Oh. Nevermind.

578 redstateredneck  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:41:28pm

re: #559 Joel

To go from 6:00 PM (first Brit Hume and now Bret Baier) to 7:00 PM (Shepard Smith) on FOX is like going from a date with Catherine Zeta-Jones to a date with Joy(less) Behar.

I consider the early news the "real" news and the later news "tabloid" news. IMO.

579 shortshrift  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:41:28pm

re: #169 DistantThunder

Ben Johnson also quoted the killer as saying "socialism is the only way."
I can see why the left media would want to find extremism on the right.
I can see why the right would want to repudiate extremism on the right.
But in the case of extremism inspired by ideology that can be characterized as both far left and far right (which always meet at the mental disease of anti-Semitism ) why is there this need to put Van Brunn in either or any political camp? And why would some on the right insist on accepting him on their side of the spectrum, albeit an yard or so further along it, in order to repudiate him? Is it to strengthen, or make more noble, the act of repudiation?
The white separatists are repudiating him because he is a white supremacist; neocons because he is a paleocon; Republicans because he is a Christian-hater; conservatives because he is a socialist.
As they say in therapy, perhaps this isn't about you. It's about him

580 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:42:02pm

re: #574 hazzyday

My historical understanding of that is that Jews were discriminated in professions and had to adapt to the one the gentiles thought were too dirty. Banking and money lending fell into that category. It's a gentile created system. That and combined with religious intolerance produces this line of thinking.

I also believe that Jews in Europe were not allowed to own land (though I'm not sure about working the land). This is part of the reason for being 'forced' into professions. I also beleive certain professions allowed them to be more mobile - in case a hasty retreat to a less hostile area was required.

581 Wishbone  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:42:05pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

From the British perspective, I can tell you that even though nationalised health has it's quirks and complaints, we by and large like it just as it is.

What we gripe about mainly is that said system is underfunded, sometimes woefully, and 'administered' to the point of uselessness in some respects.

Though I'm sure I'm better off paying for my dental plan. Just 'cos I'm British doesn't mean I have to broadcast it with every smile ;)

582 Baier  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:42:26pm

re: #559 Joel

To go from 6:00 PM (first Brit Hume and now Bret Baier) to 7:00 PM (Shepard Smith) on FOX is like going from a date with Catherine Zeta-Jones to a date with Joy(less) Behar.

I agree. Special report really is the cream of the cable news crop. I think anything would look worse after it.

583 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:44:06pm

re: #571 Scion9

I concur with your disagreement.

The reason Americans pay more isn't because we don't "negotiate" reimbursement rates. A great many European countries, including France don't negotiate at all. It is more a long the lines of confiscation of goods from pharmaceutical companies. The government pays cost basically and Euro pharmaceutical companies make the lion's share of their profits off of America's broken system. If they couldn't make that profit abroad they wouldn't be in the business of making drugs.

Things cost so much here, in part because we are subsidizing the cost of Europe's healthcare system. If we adopted their model and simply took what we wanted from pharma and medtech companies and offered them virtually no reimbursement at all they would collapse because there would literally be no market and no profits to be had.

This is why the European system isn't even on the table here. If we adopted it, all the other countries that we are paying for would have to start paying their share of the burden, which they can't and won't do. We pay twice as much as France in taxes towards healthcare for much, much less in results not because "The System" is bad here and good in France, but because French taxpayers aren't paying in full for what is being provided from their private sector; American taxpayers, consumers, and 'excess' profits from the global marketplaces are.

Assuming that's true, your solution is to continue America's role as subsidizer of last resort for the rest of the world's health care?

Not that I buy your analysis; I'd just like to know how you propose to deal with it if it's a fact.

584 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:44:28pm

re: #265 buzzsawmonkey

I do remember that during the account of creation in Genesis G-d creates the Moon, but that's slightly different.

The only thing that occurs to me is that in Exodus 33, Moses asks to see God's 'glory', and is told he may see God's back, but his face may not be seen. I strongly suggest no one take that passage literally. It describes a spiritual experience. These folks are even worse Biblical scholars than the Biblical literalist crowd.

585 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:44:31pm

re: #525 haakondahl

Nope. Then they're eco-terrorists, radical animal rights activists, anti-globalization activists, and so forth.

But you're still right, I think, about why the right is melting down. I said last night (or the night before) that under Bush, the left slowly went insane in public, while the right slowly went insane in private, partly as a reaction to rampant BDS. When The left was elected, the right's craziness sprang up, pre-formed. And it's getting ugly all over, left and right.

Yep. I didn't get a chance to respond to you last night but I remember your comment and I agree about the dynamic.

Where I'd disagree is about this issue in re: left wing extremists. They're referred to as 'eco-terrorists' or 'animal rights activists' because the left has (overall) done a better job of distancing themselves from those extremist positions than the right has. You don't find elected Democrats advocating those positions.

On the other hand, seeds of extremist rhetoric can be found in mainstream rightwing discourse, for whatever reason. Pat buchanan, for example-- why that guy is given any kind of public platform I'll never understand. The nirthers-- two GOP congressmen have been pushing a bill whose sole purpose is to make presidential candidates produce birth certificates-- that bill serves no purpose other than to legitimise the concerns of the wacko nirthers/conspiracy/Obama is a seekrit muslim contingent. It will never be passed, but its mere existence is a problem.

I think the GOP could do a better job distancing itself from this sort of thing, and should.

before people assume I'm claiming that Buchanan is representative of mainstream right wing thought -- obviously I'm not. And yes, I know he's not part of the GOP. But the GOP seems to have responded to recent electoral losses by doubling down on the crazy--that is, by focussing on appealing to a shrinking base of so-cons, and thereby losing even more appeal to moderates and independents.

If the GOP and conservatives in general did a better job of calling out and labelling the extremists on their own side as extremists, then they'd control the discourse -- and wouldn't have to worry about themselves being tarred with the extremist brush. It's just good political (and media) strategy, in my opinion.

586 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:48:43pm

re: #543 ShanghaiEd

I disagree. Sometimes it takes more guts to call crazy "crazy" than to keep on the good side of the "tough guys" echo chamber.

I gained a lot of respect for Shep Smith when he mocked Glenn Beck over his Fear Chamber or whatever it was.

587 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:48:44pm

re: #451 NelsFree

The Empirical Strikes Back!
/heh

:)

588 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:51:46pm

re: #579 shortshrift

Ben Johnson also quoted the killer as saying "socialism is the only way."
I can see why the left media would want to find extremism on the right.
I can see why the right would want to repudiate extremism on the right.
But in the case of extremism inspired by ideology that can be characterized as both far left and far right (which always meet at the mental disease of anti-Semitism ) why is there this need to put Van Brunn in either or any political camp? And why would some on the right insist on accepting him on their side of the spectrum, albeit an yard or so further along it, in order to repudiate him? Is it to strengthen, or make more noble, the act of repudiation?
The white separatists are repudiating him because he is a white supremacist; neocons because he is a paleocon; Republicans because he is a Christian-hater; conservatives because he is a socialist.
As they say in therapy, perhaps this isn't about you. It's about him

Actually, Johnson's article says the killer referred repeatedly to "Western Socialism." I'm wondering how that's different from generic Socialism. Does anybody know?

589 Former Belgian  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:53:16pm

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

Funny, I don't recall the part of the Bible where G-d "bares his buttocks."

It's the lesser-known of the two most egregious typos in a famous misprinted Bible translation known as the "Wicked Bible" or "Adulterers' Bible".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Deut. 5:24 wrongly reads "hath shewed us his glory and his great arse " rather than "...greatness".

The better-known one is of course "Thou shalt commit adultery".

590 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:54:39pm

re: #500 Eowyn2

Hi Reine

Let me tell you a little story.
Not too long ago (10 yrs?)
The police were called to investigate a parked car a block away from my mother's house.

When the police opened the trunk, they found not one, but two birthed infants. Both had been born alive (air had gotten into their lungs) about 10 months apart. The woman (late 20s) who had given birth to these infants was a meth addict and the babies would have been meth babies but they had a chance at survival. Her family did not know she had ever been pregnant.

Does the state have the right to put her on a long term birth control or sterilize her?

Reverse the situation to the male perspective.
If a man has fathered 20 kids from different women and shows no sign of changing his actions or supporting his offspring, does the state have the right to have him snipped and clipped?

I think it is something that should at least be an open discussion.

I don't believe it is possible to be a conservative and want to have government intervention in people's lives to this degree.

Bad things happen. Awful things happen. Appropriate punitive actions should be taken. But having the government be able to make these sorts of decisions about people's lives is wrong, imo.

591 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:56:18pm

re: #580 Leonidas Hoplite

I also believe that Jews in Europe were not allowed to own land (though I'm not sure about working the land). This is part of the reason for being 'forced' into professions. I also beleive certain professions allowed them to be more mobile - in case a hasty retreat to a less hostile area was required.

Jewish professions, as established in the Middle Ages, tended to favor mobility, and take advantage of the spread-out nature of the Jewish communities. Also, Jews were permitted to lend at interest, which Christian religious law forbade. Financiers and doctors were the logical result...

592 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 12:57:36pm

re: #589 Former Belgian

It's the lesser-known of the two most egregious typos in a famous misprinted Bible translation known as the "Wicked Bible" or "Adulterers' Bible".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Deut. 5:24 wrongly reads "hath shewed us his glory and his great arse " rather than "...greatness".

The better-known one is of course "Thou shalt commit adultery".


Awesome.

593 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:01:39pm

re: #591 SanFranciscoZionist

Jews were permitted to lend at interest, which Christian religious law forbade.

This I was aware of, but not the part about the mobility/medicine connection, which makes sense.

I remember thinking how terrible it was that Christian communities essentially created the need for Jewish communities to serve as bankers because their religious laws forbade them from lending at interest-- and then used that very prohibition as a further reason to slur and malign the Jews.

Yet another example of the many ways in which antisemitism is a beast that is perpetually feeding itself, inventing and creating 'reasons' for its hatred.

594 Former Belgian  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:03:24pm

re: #574 hazzyday

My historical understanding of that is that Jews were discriminated in professions and had to adapt to the one the gentiles thought were too dirty. Banking and money lending fell into that category..

According to a literal reading of the Torah, Jews are forbidden to charge each other interest. (There is a rabbinical loophole called the "heter iska" that basically "repackages" the loan as an investment, and the interest as an ROI.)
The medieval Catholic Church, seeing itself as "the new Israel" (substitution theology) interpreted this passage as a ban on Catholics charging each other interest. Since obviously no bank will lend anybody money without interest (overt or camouflaged), banking in most of Europe became a Jewish business by default until the Reformation.

595 shortshrift  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:03:28pm

re: #588 ShanghaiEd

Without referring back to Van Brunn's quotes, the general answer would be that some see Western Socialism as the welfare state in a mixed economy.
Eastern Socialism would be the centralized control economy under communism as in the USSR.
The redistributive coercion by government is the essential socialist principle common to both, so it would be a distinction without a difference.

596 CommonCents  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:11:21pm

re: #354 Nevergiveup

I am not sure, I just got back here also. But it seems tempers are short today. Must be the weather?

It's all the pent up anxiety over Stanley Cup GAME 7 tomorrow night. I'm feeling it too, but I tend to internalize.

597 Scion9  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:11:46pm

re: #583 Cato the Elder

Assuming that's true, your solution is to continue America's role as subsidizer of last resort for the rest of the world's health care?

Not that I buy your analysis; I'd just like to know how you propose to deal with it if it's a fact.

Unfortunately I don't have a solution to the issue (but then again apparently neither does anyone else).

Feel free not to 'buy' my analysis, but you must realize how important the American market is to the rest of the world, just as a matter of percentage. Where do the European pharma titans make their profits? They aren't getting a big pay check from their respective governments. They are selling drugs for profit and they are selling them in America because they can't sell them anywhere else at the prices that they do.

If first world European nations were required to pay more for what they consume, we could demand better prices here without making economic waves; but American legislatures obviously can't effect anything that would require that European nations pay a larger share for drugs and medical technologies. 5,000% mark-up isn't a realistic market price for non-designer drugs but it isn't uncommon in America; but neither is the "pennies" above cost that European governments compensate the private sector with.

Any solution to our problems is going to have to take into account maintaining equilibrium (which means high profits) in the pharmaceutical and medtech industry and not upsetting an already fragile economy. That is going to take cooperation from foreign governments in paying more for their systems (which in many cases are overburdened and under-funded now) in order to properly share the subsidization of these international companies, which I don't think is going to happen.

If these companies primary clients are national governments, then the US Federal Government paying 20% of GDP while France pays 7% and the UK pays 9% (I don't have the actual numbers for France and the UK, just the proposed on for the US; so the above is just for illustration) for nearly the same product is obviously not viable. I don't see any national governments agreeing that they should pay an equal (or at least within the same ballpark) for the same product or service if it means they will have to pay more, especially if it is so the US can pay less. No political will for that to happen.

598 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:11:53pm

re: #583 Cato the Elder

Assuming that's true, your solution is to continue America's role as subsidizer of last resort for the rest of the world's health care?

Not that I buy your analysis; I'd just like to know how you propose to deal with it if it's a fact.

His analysis is not wholly incorrect, but it deals with a side issue, rather than the crux of the problem. To the extent that the U.S. subsidizes other countries' healthcare, it does so by the rest of the world benefiting from the positive externalities emanating from the R&D breakthroughs of American pharmaceuticals. We can't shoot ourselves in the foot just to prevent the rest of the world from gaining an un-paid-for benefit at our expense. We still have to keep going because if we turned our healthcare into a mirror of Western Europe's, there would be no one to benefit from via positive externalities, littel to no innovation to drive quality forward, and everyone would suffer, us included.

599 Joel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:16:10pm

re: #582 Baier

I agree. Special report really is the cream of the cable news crop. I think anything would look worse after it.

Special Report is the only news show I watch. I cannot stomach Katie Couric, Brian Williams or Charles Gibson. I like the All Star panel on Special Report.

600 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:16:56pm

re: #595 shortshrift

Thanks for the enlightenment!

601 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:23:14pm

re: #185 loppyd

I rarely get to other blogs, but this has stirred some interest in seeing what folks here are referring to. I'm looking at lgf2.wordpress.com and the last post is from Jan 9, 2009...... I must be looking at an old version/url?

602 Scion9  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:26:30pm

re: #598 medaura18586

Thanks. That is basically what I'm talking about. Although, it isn't just Johnson & Johnson and other American companies that the world benefits from obviously. There are plenty of Western and Northern European medtech and pharmaceutical companies that are competitive and innovative that wouldn't be strictly off of the back of Europe's market for their product.

We can't just close down shop here at home by making the Federal Government the sole purchaser of these products and technologies and expect things to continue apace here or abroad. American legislators are apparently aware of this.

603 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:42:04pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

I certainly shall.

What part of my "take" (read: rambling rant) did you disagree with? The exclusion of the single-payer option is fact. I didn't say I was for it, only that my father is. I am not conversant enough with economics to judge.

"Single-payer health care is a term used in the United States to describe the payment of doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers from a single fund. It differs from typical private health insurance where through pricing and other measures taken by the insurer, the level of risks carried by multiple insurance pools as well as the coverage can vary and the pricing has to be varied according to the contribution of risk added to the pool. It is often mentioned as one way to deliver universal health care."

Of course we don't have a single-payer option, but that's a good thing. In your original remark, you spoke disparagingly of this very radical overhaul of the system getting dismissed by Congress. Experienced physicians like your father may be in favor, of course, but they can also be blinded by ideological biases (didn't you say your dad gets your a subscription to The Nation?). Experience tends to refine physicians' medical understanding and the quality of care they can deliver to their patients -- it doesn't necessarily make them them experts at determining what the best way would be for their patients to pay for medical services. In fact, the two fields are worlds apart.

I do believe I've read that the Canadians and Brits are far more satisfied with their health plans than the hysterical insurance "industry"* and its paid flacks would have us think. That again would seem to be a plain fact, whatever the objective pros and cons are. We're led to believe that all those guys are just aching to have our non-system instead, and it seems that's a canard.

Brits and Canadians love to brag about their socialized services to Americans' faces. It's just their anti-American leftist disposition, a national past-time, sophomoric exercise in futility, whatever you wanna call it. But in private they complain, and in more tellingly, they travel to the U.S. to undergo complicated life-saving procedures, when they can afford it. Moreover, flimsy populist perception aside, there are clear objective metrics by which to judge the standards of healthcare across countries, and the U.S. comes second to none in nearly every category.

What you said about preventative care is also not supported by research. Preventative care improved life quality, but it is NOT a cost-reducing approach to healthcare. In fact, it increases costs on average, because it is administered routinely, whether a disease is contracted or not. We adopt preventative measures in spite of their high cost, for their many benefits. But if more resources were devoted to preventative measures, and they were taken away from funds originally destined for treatment, that would lower the quality of healthcare for everyone except those in overall excellent health. That's because over a person's lifetime, the most money for healthcare related procedures goes to treat serious unpreventable diseases, like cancer, degenerative, or age-related diseases -- not to speak of accidents and complications arising from them. People may have a genetic disposition for these diseases, which preventative care will do very little to affect the onset of.

What about the GDP figures? I've seen them for years. Are they fiddled? I wouldn't be surprised either way.

I haven't seen them. I do my own research. There are independent data sets out there, and the link I provided lists many such independent statistics.

604 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:42:08pm

I'm going to take a break. I'm so out of it today that I think I just took my dog's anti-allergy medicine and gave him my acid-reflux pill in its place.

605 LatinGent  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:55:12pm

re: #604 Cato the Elder

I'm going to take a break. I'm so out of it today that I think I just took my dog's anti-allergy medicine and gave him my acid-reflux pill in its place.

Whoa, be careful going outside for a while...would`nt want you to suddenly have the urge to chase cars.

606 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 1:55:24pm

re: #603 medaura18586

Saw this right after I posted my note about being out of it. More later; check this space. ;^)

By the way, I've been meaning to ask you: Given an old Roman who is far too focussed on things literary, what one book would you recommend as a re-introduction to economics? I've forgotten all the stuff I read as a youth, and probably didn't understand it then, either.

Something in plain English, with a history of the discipline and a more or less objective take on present-day questions. Be there such an animal? A general lack of formulas (math is not my strong suit) and endless charts (I'd like to read it on the Kindle, if possible) would be helpful.

I own a three-volume work on Austrian economics, published by Pickering. I know you're partial to that school. Should I start there, or is there something a bit less weighty as an appetizer?

607 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:00:03pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

Also, as far as mortality rates go, and the U.S. does have a relatively low life expectancy compared to other developed nations -- healthcare is not to blame by default. Life-style choices, diet, attitudes toward risk, addiction, issues related to culture, are largely responsible for the gap. Also, record taking practices leave a mark in the statistics: In most developed countries, including Sweden, live births of babies weighing less than a certain weight (forgot what that number is, exactly) associated with high mortality risk, are not recorded immediately. The babies are left overnight at the hospital, and if they are alive by the next day, only then they are recorded. That's not the practice in the U.S. -- but this discrepancy in record taking practices gives the artificial impression that the U.S. has a much higher infant mortality rate. Teenage pregnancies and higher ignorance of contraception or acceptable of abortion as an option also lead to many underweight babies being born (prone to die young) -- those fall under life-style/cultural factors.

I don't know how Brits and Canadians are brainwashed to feel toward their healthcare, but the ones you hear may be the loudest, youngest, healthiest voices -- not a representative view. The elderly get treated despicably by the egalitarian welfare/healthcare systems, since they are seen as a cost-burden -- treatments/resources devoted to them get a short time-span of usefulness (because the elderly have less to live), and are thus deemed wasted. Rare but life-threatening diseases are seen as unsuitable to fund either, because too few people benefit from treatment.

And, speaking from personal experience, I've been at the mercy of the Canadian healthcare system for 4 years of my life, once having to wait in excruciating pain for 11 hours at the hospital's emergency room before I could get seen. Socialized healthcare is rubbish. Mentally infantile Canadians who have not grasped the concept of "object permanence" yet (at least not for abstract objects) gloat over how their healthcare is at least "free" -- such a sweet deal -- only because they don't see the money taxed from them to keep it going. And it's not a cost-effective system at all, considering the amount of taxpayer funding it receives.

608 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:02:08pm

re: #585 iceweasel

Where I'd disagree is about this issue in re: left wing extremists. They're referred to as 'eco-terrorists' or 'animal rights activists' because the left has (overall) done a better job of distancing themselves from those extremist positions than the right has. You don't find elected Democrats advocating those positions.

I think you have the cart a little far forward here. The right has, in my lifetime, been much better at policing the fringes than the left. The left has not needed to, precisely because the media has made it go away as a non-issue. The left wing extremists are referred to by their particular ideological perversions, yes, but this is the very mechanism by which the left can claim that such a distinction exists.

Up until recently, the right had been far more introspective and effective at expelling the David Dukes. Even without reference to the moral aspect, the right simply had to be good at it--or the media would be all over it. That is right and good, and my only criticism is that the media yawns when confronted with left wing extremism.

There exists no left-wing ideology so loathsome that the left feels it must not "go there"; rather, the diktat that "there are no enemies to the left" has been honored even in ignorance of the quote.

The State Department really was full of Reds. The Soviets really were inflitrating society the smart way, through the young and the media. But why is Senator McCarthy's name a synonym for evil in America? Because he went after Communists in the media--and the media can make you an unperson in ways that government can only stand back and admire.

Recently, however, the BDS/ODS sequence has changed so much of the game that it is nearly unrecognizable.

In the new war, whether hot, cold, or simmering; military, economic, or social, in each front we can expect to have strange new allies to fight our former friends.

Now we are stuck with cranks like Pat Buchanan, and even David Duke is making a comeback.

609 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:03:10pm

re: #604 Cato the Elder

I'm going to take a break. I'm so out of it today that I think I just took my dog's anti-allergy medicine and gave him my acid-reflux pill in its place.

So it's snuff for you, and sausage for the dog. Yay!

610 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:07:44pm

re: #608 haakondahl

I think you have the cart a little far forward here. The right has, in my lifetime, been much better at policing the fringes than the left. The left has not needed to, precisely because the media has made it go away as a non-issue. The left wing extremists are referred to by their particular ideological perversions, yes, but this is the very mechanism by which the left can claim that such a distinction exists.

Up until recently, the right had been far more introspective and effective at expelling the David Dukes. *** Even without reference to the moral aspect, the right simply had to be good at it--or the media would be all over it. That is right and good, and my only criticism is that the media yawns when confronted with left wing extremism.

There exists no left-wing ideology so loathsome that the left feels it must not "go there"; rather, the diktat that "there are no enemies to the left" has been honored even in ignorance of the quote.

The State Department really was full of Reds. The Soviets really were inflitrating society the smart way, through the young and the media. But why is Senator McCarthy's name a synonym for evil in America? Because he went after Communists in the media--and the media can make you an unperson in ways that government can only stand back and admire.

Recently, however, the BDS/ODS sequence has changed so much of the game that it is nearly unrecognizable.

In the new war, whether hot, cold, or simmering; military, economic, or social, in each front we can expect to have strange new allies to fight our former friends.

*** Now we are stuck with cranks like Pat Buchanan, and even David Duke is making a comeback.

Oh, SHIT! That asterisked sentence was originally where the matching asterisks are. I kept pushing it forward, trying to find a place fo it, then forgot it was ahead of the cursor. Now it looks as though I am saying that Buchanan and Duke are the new allies! ABSOLUTELY NOT.

PIMF

611 Wishbone  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:08:10pm

re: #603 medaura18586

Brits and Canadians love to brag about their socialized services to Americans' faces. It's just their anti-American leftist disposition, a national past-time, sophomoric exercise in futility, whatever you wanna call it.

I can't speak for the Canucks, but that's a pretty overgeneralised dismissal of British national thinking. Got any more good ones for us?

612 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:12:27pm

re: #606 Cato the Elder

I'm not an Austrian true-believer, but I do think Ludvig von Mises was a genius and visionary.

One book I wholly recommend (to just about anybody), and which happens to meet all your criteria, is Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson." I'm sure you get get it off of Project Gutenberg too.

It's the first non-textbook book I have read on economics, and it has immensely shaped my thinking. Not a single math formula, basic common-sense issues of interest to the layperson, and an excellent introduction to opportunity cost, which many "orthodox" economists sadly have a blind spot on.

613 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:16:42pm

re: #611 Wishbone

I can't speak for the Canucks, but that's a pretty overgeneralised dismissal of British national thinking. Got any more good ones for us?

It is generalized. Read further for more details:

I don't know how Brits and Canadians are brainwashed to feel toward their healthcare, but the ones you hear may be the loudest, youngest, healthiest voices -- not a representative view. The elderly get treated despicably by the egalitarian welfare/healthcare systems, since they are seen as a cost-burden -- treatments/resources devoted to them get a short time-span of usefulness (because the elderly have less to live), and are thus deemed wasted. Rare but life-threatening diseases are seen as unsuitable to fund either, because too few people benefit from treatment.

So young over-all healthy Brits may feel fine and dandy about resources being stripped from the elderly or those with rare acute diseases to serve them instead in keeping them healthy, but what's that worth? Is it representative? Is it fair?

[Link: spectator.org...]

By objective metrics capturing the quality of healthcare, the British system falls considerably behind the American system, so I see no rational reason for Brits to be so satisfied with what they have.

614 Wishbone  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:26:04pm

re: #613 medaura18586

I wasn't exactly commenting upon the healthcare issue.

Be that as it may; you may see no reason for us to be happy with what we have and with a little scrutiny of the overall system you'd probably be right but, on the whole, we are. That, regardless of whether we should be or not, remains true.

615 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:27:07pm
616 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:32:02pm

re: #613 medaura18586

Don't lump the Brits in like that. They all hate it.

617 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:34:19pm

Another reason semi-rpivate healthcare is so expensive in the U.S. (compared to other developed countries, aside from it being of incomparably higher quality) is that state regulations micromanage the health-insurance industry, often mandating a range of superfluous services to be covered by insurance (such as mental health, sex-change operations, hair plugs, cosmetic procedures -- strings attached vary by state) and in some cases, dictating limits on the risk-premium differentials, which creates a lemons market where none exists and increases premiums.

Keeping the employer meddled is also a cost-dragger.

618 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:40:05pm

re: #610 haakondahl

Oh, SHIT! That asterisked sentence was originally where the matching asterisks are. I kept pushing it forward, trying to find a place fo it, then forgot it was ahead of the cursor. Now it looks as though I am saying that Buchanan and Duke are the new allies! ABSOLUTELY NOT.

PIMF

No worries! I read you with charity, and I certainly knew you weren't saying that.
i do want to point out this though-- you had no problem saying this:

There exists no left-wing ideology so loathsome that the left feels it must not "go there"

Frankly, I think that's a pretty sweeping statement that has no basis in reality and reflects the kind of demonisation of 'the other side' that is in large part responsible for the sorry state of our political discourse today.

It's no more fair or just for you to claim that 'the left' embraces eco-terrorism or animal rights terrorism than it would be for me to claim that 'the right' embraces Pat Buchanan and David Duke.

We can agree that the people on both sides have a responsibility to call out the cranks among them, and further that of late the right hasn't been as good at doing that as it has been in the past.

I do think you're on to something when you locate a lot of what's going on in the BDS/ODS syndromes. The last 8+ years have seen increasing polarisation and people on both sides have at times been operating on the principle "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" -- without stopping to take a good look at their new 'friend'.

My point still stands though that extremist positions have crept into the mainstream discourse on the right in ways that aren't present on the left-- cf. the GOP guys bringing that bill designed to placate nirthers. It would behoove the GOP and the right as a matter of political expediency, to say nothing of the moral issues, to be rooting that sort of thing out.

619 haakondahl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 2:46:06pm

re: #618 iceweasel

Augh! I've been polarized!

620 Zimriel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 3:28:34pm

re: #172 neocon hippie

Speaking of recent bannings, what happened with Pastorius? And how about Mama Winger, who I know has left and then returned in the past?

Mama Winger these days may be found at Ace's, posting anti-LGF rants. I recall her as a fan of "Expelled" who dinged down posters who weren't. I don't know exactly how she got the stick but, I'm not mourning her loss.

621 Zimriel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 3:45:46pm

re: #178 Charles

I'm sorry -- it's utterly absurd to try to claim that Von Brunn is a "leftist." I think Kathy Shaidle needs to get a grip and stop spinning that line of BS, because it's painfully obvious.

The prefix which might clear up some of this "Liberal Fascism" talk is "cultural".

For instance, as of 2002 I was still a cultural Whig / Liberal Democrat, in the English tradition. My parents supported this thought; I agreed with the classic liberal tropes; I read The Independent in school. We were the ones who supported armed intervention abroad to spread liberal democracy. This is the school of thought which hated, hated, HATED Saddam Hussein and apartheid; we supported the war in Iraq in part to fix what more conservative men did in the 1980s, supporting those thugs.

So if we have a Lindberghite throwback who now posts at Stormfront and Free Republic, and emphasises national and racial purity without much care about the rest of the world; I have no problem saying he's a cultural rightist.

I tried posting something to that effect (under this name) over at Ace's, under DrewM's post on "Trouble With The Narrative" - that "the narrative" has it pegged right, and that no amount of spluttering will change that.

622 shortshrift  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 3:46:11pm

re: #608 haakondahl

"Recently, however, the BDS/ODS sequence has changed so much of the game that it is nearly unrecognizable."

I have enjoyed your debate with iceweasel, so I hope neither of you object to my butting in.

Political tradition in the West has enjoyed robust - meaning impolite, even offensive - expression of opinion. Leaders are routinely compared to monsters. Hostile rhetoric is a privilege we all enjoy from time to time. The privilege is abused, to be sure, but is encouraged to further excesses by the anonymity of the internet.

So I do not think the BDS/ODS 'sequence' is qualitatively different from past election cycles of sore losers.

What is different this time is the manifestation the true ODS - Obama Deification Syndrome - which is the obverse of BDS. This syndrome not only justifies the right's hysteria against Obama, it demands it. Or is it wrong to hope that a God should fail?

623 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 3:52:57pm

Let's see.

Try telling a Brit how he or she would get access to health care in the United States.

"Well, you may or may not be covered by your employer. The quality of that coverage, if it's on offer, will differ from employer to employer and even from year to year, as your employer may decide to switch policies and companies annually. Many do. And if it gets too expensive, your boss may decide to discontinue offering any policy at all. Hell, don't look so miffed: you can always get a better job, right?

"If you're not covered through work, you're basically out of luck. Unless you quit your job and go on the dole. And even then you may not qualify for Medicaid. If you have any assets, you could be asked to spend them down to nothing before you'll get any help.

"Once you reach the age of 65 you're eligible for Medicare. Maybe. If you retire or lose your job before then, you get 18 whole months where you can continue your old coverage under your employer's policy - if you can afford to pay the full premium. After that you're on your own. Just try not to get sick before you reach the magic date.

"To sum up, if you're gainfully employed by the right employer, you ought to be OK. Let's hope. Unless someone rewrites the rules without telling you. Or you get sick with anything that later gets classified as a 'pre-existing' condition.

"Oh, and some policies won't help you much if you should come down with something suspiciously like a character flaw, such as clinical depression or bipolar disorder. Many people consider mental health services to be superfluous. If you're honest with yourself, you will admit that only weaklings get those so-called 'diseases', and weakness is not something we want to encourage, right? Although some meddling lawmakers have told the insurance companies otherwise, which is none of their damn business and just adds to the expense. Best you can expect is a prescription for Prozac and hearty good wishes. Stop whining.

"The good news is that American hospitals are shinier, the doctors are better paid, and they have potted plants in almost all the hallways.

"Now, you wanna trade what you have for this system, right? What's that? No? It's too risky? Well, you've been brainwashed by socialism, that's all."

Medaura, you and I agree on many things, but I don't think health policy is ever going to be one of them.

And I really don't see how it's a good thing for a serious proposal (single payer) to be a priori excluded from the public debate, even if it turns out to be morally wrong, economically unsound and funny-smelling. Exclude it from the eventual "solution" (heh!) all you want, but how is the debate served by ruling one particular approach to be completely out of bounds for purposes of discussion? Not everyone who supports single payer is an economic moron or a Nation reader.

624 Zimriel  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 3:55:44pm

re: #301 loppyd

Ding it all you want. It is the truth and if we're all about being pure of heart and being judged by those we hang with then it's fair game.

If it's the truth, then you need to provide evidence. "I read it from some ex LGFer on a comment thread" won't cut it here.

Down-ding. Frankly, I'm disappointed at your meltdown here.

625 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:12:56pm

re: #623 Cato the Elder

Not everyone who supports single payer is an economic moron or a Nation reader.

Though, to be absolutely clear, my poor old Dad is most certainly the latter and possible the former.

626 dsrtegl  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:14:12pm

re: #361 Fierce Guppy

von Brunn said he wanted to "deport all Jews and blacks from the white nations" which is a sentiment that bespeaks the polar opposite of Libertarianism.
Tony.

People who would read racism into Libertarianism aren't reading very well. One of the major tenets of Libertarianism is a respect of the natural rights of all people, regardless of background. This couldn't be further from the thinking of Mr. Von Brunn. A true Libertarian abhors racism, statism, big government, high taxes, nanny states and infringement on personal rights.... by definition.

That being said, I'm more of a Jeffersonian type myself.

627 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:25:35pm

Mr. DeNugent -

NO POOP! That is all.

-S-

628 shortshrift  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:26:48pm

re: #623 Cato the Elder

That poor Brit! To come so close to tasting freedom of choice and self-determination, just to have the glass dashed from his lips as poison!

629 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:32:19pm

re: #623 Cato the Elder

We can agree to disagree, but I think you may have misunderstood me. I don't think mental health provisions are superfluous in essence, only that including them by default in everyone's insurance package is a cost-dragger. Different people are at different risk levels for any sort of medical condition, and actuaries can give each of us, based on our gender, ethnicity, dexterity (left or right handed), work history, and other biographical data points, a life expectancy, and projected probabilities of being affected by various disorders, mental or physiological (women are much more likely than men to suffer from affective disorders, for example). If insurance worked the way it's supposed to, it would merely calculate a risk profile for each client based on all these variables (plus life-style considerations), and a projected cost spread over a lifetime (or otherwise, the coverage period). Add to that the administrative costs, and you got a premium.

People would have the option to cover themselves for mental health issues, and pay an appropriate premium. But under the current system, people don't have the prerogative of opting out of such provisions should they deem them unnecessary for themselves, or opting out for hair plug and sex-change coverage. These and many nonsensical provisions are attached to your insurance by default (to throw a bone to state legislatures' pet constituencies offering such services) for everybody, and they are a major cost dragger.

As for the employer, s/he should have nothing to do with it. It's really hard to see that unless you're in the employer's shoes. My husband owns a small business and has had to deal with insurance from the provider's end. One of his Russian programmers (married, H1 Visa) thought he was getting paid less than one of his co-workers (single) because he didn't understand that the cost of insurance was incorporated into his compensation package. He's married and insuring both him and his spouse (on a very generous plan) cost much more than it did to insure the co-worker who is single. When the cost of insurance was added in, Michael was paying the Russian more than he was paying the co-worker, and even more than he was paying himself (oh yeah, employer gets no insurance; my husband wasn't covered until I got him coverage through my job).

I am very young and healthy, and I wish my employer, instead of offering me insurance, gave me an equivalent raise instead so I could keep the money they are spending on me in my pocket instead. I'd then buy my own insurance but keep it to the basics instead of the very comprehensive coverage I currently get and I feel I don't need.

But insurance is just part of the compensation package, and employers are in constant competition for talent and employees. If they don't offer coverage, they have to make it up to you one way or the other (well, the way to do it would pretty much be by giving you a raise equivalent to the cost of insurance, so you could go buy it yourself.)

It's what Michael does now with his employees, after he had to explain them how much it cost to insure them, and they asked if they could just get that money into their pocket instead. Both parties were very happy in arrangement: the employees buy personalized insurance and get exactly what they need, and Michael doesn't have to deal with their paperwork.

That the single-payer option has not been taken seriously in Congress hearings is not a sign of poor argumentation or close-mindedness. It's simply that such an arrangement is so unpopular with most Americans that Congressmen (of both parties) know it's not viable. So what's the point discussing it in Congress? I say Americans are wary of it for very good reasons.

630 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:32:47pm

But I did not mean to offend or be arrogant about it. I just think most Americans don't appreciate how good they have it. Second-hand tales from other countries make it sound like we're getting screwed over here. But I've been "over there" and the grass is not greener on the other side. Quite the contrary.

631 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:36:23pm

Also, I know as a fact that the insurance industry (in aggregate, not just health insurance) does not make money from the bread and butter of their business: namely, the premiums they receive do not make up for what they have to pay their clients in cases of disaster coverage, accidents, whatever is covered. The way they make their money is through investing the money they receive in periodic payments/premiums, mostly by loaning it out and earning some interest on it, before they occasionally pay it back in big chunks to clients to honor their coverage obligations.

632 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:39:58pm

re: #631 medaura18586


Also, I know as a fact that the insurance industry (in aggregate, not just health insurance) does not make money from the bread and butter of their business:

I mean that it doesn't turn a profit.

633 Stuart Leviton  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:47:35pm

The Baltimore Jewish Times ran a story (December 23, 2005, pages 10 & 12) related to a local White Supremacist group leaflet campaign. According to the article

Written below the snapshot were the words, "A Future For White Children
Is Missing." Within the pages, Jews were described as "kikes" with "hook
noses" beneath headlines like, "When The Goddamn Jews Take Over
America!"

Reprint of 23 Dec 2005 article
The article mentions an local White Supremacist group (see article for name. I won't honor their name here). Purportedly, Von Brunn was a member. If you check out that hate groups web-site you will find a link to the British National Party, BNP.

634 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:47:49pm

re: #622 shortshrift


So I do not think the BDS/ODS 'sequence' is qualitatively different from past election cycles of sore losers.

What is different this time is the manifestation the true ODS - Obama Deification Syndrome - which is the obverse of BDS. This syndrome not only justifies the right's hysteria against Obama, it demands it. Or is it wrong to hope that a God should fail?

Hope you don't mind if I answer this --

I think the situation is more complicated than what you're suggesting. We have two different syndromes going on with Obama just as we did with Bush. Both of them had a cult of personality: some cadre of supporters who blindly supported everything their Leader did, and would not brook any criticism of their leader-- either from the opposition or from their own ranks. ironically, many of the people on the left who were harshly critical of Bush's personality cult have had no problem forming one around Obama-- these are people who were enraged over certain Bush doctrines and decisions yet suddenly have no problem when Obama chooses to continue those policies and makes similar decisions. Call these sets the "true believers" or the apologists -- Bush had (and still has) them; so does Obama.

There's also a set of people who automatically hated everything Bush did, just as there is now a set of people who automatically hate everything Obama does.

You say: "This syndrome [Obama worship] not only justifies the right's hysteria against Obama, it demands it."

i can't agree with that, at all. Compare the following: I could just as easily argue that Bush's personality cult justified anti-Bush hysteria. i don't, because it doesn't.

Unqualified worship has no place in a democracy, any more than relentless and unthinking demonisation of the "other side" does. Both inhibit and stunt the free and open exchange of ideas, which is what we all should be aiming at.

I won't presume to speak for haakondahl on this but in my view it's wrong to see ODS and BDS as being just like any other 'sore loser' kind of response. I think both are reflections of the critical nature of the times: most of all 9/11 and the war.

Just my opinion, of course.

635 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:49:32pm

re: #622 shortshrift

What is different this time is the manifestation the true ODS - Obama Deification Syndrome - which is the obverse of BDS. This syndrome not only justifies the right's hysteria against Obama, it demands it. Or is it wrong to hope that a God should fail?

Nothing justifies hysteria. Assuming Obama were worse than Stalin - something that is obviously false - hysteria did nothing to impede him, either. In fact it encouraged him.

As for deification, Ronald Reagan came and still comes in for lots of that. Did you ever read the famous Peggy Noonan column where she wrote about wanting to caress his foot?

Silliness should be mocked, ignored, or pilloried. Foaming at the mouth just makes one look sick.

636 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 4:59:09pm

re: #635 Cato the Elder

Short, sweet, and to the point. much better than what I'd said.

Noonan's Reaganworship is a particularly good example. I don't remember the foot column, but god knows there are loads of examples of embarrassing things she's written about Reagan and Bush.

People fixate on Chris Matthews' comments about the 'tingle' up his leg -- as they should -- yet forget that Matthews was one of a chorus of pundits slobbering over Bush during the Mission Accomplished photo-op. Deeply embarrassing stuff was written and said then.

I think it's wrong to consider the beltway media as in the tank for Obama, in the sense that they gave up providing analysis and doing journalism long, long ago -- they're interested in vapid stories and swayed by personalities, and their only interest is in maintaining access to power and the cocktail party circuit.

Right now their vapidity happens to benefit Obama; doesn't make me like them any better or think more highly of them.

637 Deseeded  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 5:04:23pm

re: #243 loppyd

You have no standing to know what is in her heart. Or that of anyone else.

Do you think Irish Rose has a pure heart for starting a "hit list" blog?

How about Sharmuta, the biggest pants on fire liar on this blog?

Some people enjoy certain songs. I think a "hit list" is ok. Heck, what if she was putting "Howard Jones - No One Is To Blame" a the top? That would be a great "Hit list".....if we're talking about shooting people in the face....not a good "hit list".

638 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 5:20:19pm

re: #632 medaura18586

I mean that it doesn't turn a profit.

Check your email! ;^)

I'm going to have to mull over all of this. While I can see your point in each individual case, perhaps what it comes down to is that I disagree with the basic premise that the insurance model should be the foundation of health care.

Everyone is going to get sick, everyone who doesn't die quickly eventually needs long-term care. Not everyone is going to get into a major car accident. Not everyone is going to watch her house burn down.

I see public health as a public good, and have no problem whatsoever paying taxes for quality basic care for all. I've been on the other side of the fence too - in Germany, for a decade - and got terribly ill there from a tick-borne virus, and spent six weeks in hospital, two of them in a coma. And if I had the choice of going through that again there or here, I'd choose there. I was your age at the time and had it happened here I'd probably still be paying off the debt. There, I had no debt.

The German social(ized) medical system was instituted by that flaming revolutionary Bismarck in the nineteenth century and has stood the test of time. And anyone who wants and can afford it can buy supplementary insurance or pay out-of-pocket for private rooms in private clinics with private doctors and nurses. But Germany is a mixed system. Let's stick to Canada vs. the US.

One society sees health care as a public good to be paid for out of public funds (taxes). The other sees it as a luck-of-the-draw insurance gamble. Over the course of my life with its ups and downs, all else being equal (which it never is, of course), I'd feel better living under the former system.

You spent 11 hours in pain waiting to see a doctor there. I've spent that long here having seen a doctor and waiting for the totally unproductive paper-pushing administrative staff to work through its issues with my insurance and discharge me so I could take my pain-pill prescription and get it filled.

But there are horror stories enough on all sides, and anecdotes prove nothing but the perversity of fate. My fundamental issue is with how we view health care - as a lottery or as an inevitable cost of doing business under the social contract.

As an aside: One of the coming things right now is for US insurance companies to offer policyholders cash bonuses (up to ten thousand dollars, I've read!) and round-trip tickets to get their bypass surgery done in India. The service is just as good as it is here, if you're lucky you get to see the Taj Mahal before or after you go under the knife, and the insurance company still saves money.

I have no idea what that means for the overall debate, but it sure is an interesting little factoid, isn't it? No snark intended.

As Mencken said, there is nothing more entertaining than American public life. You bring the popcorn, I'll order the beer and pizza.

639 Deseeded  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 5:21:24pm

re: #460 Sheepdogess

I feel my freedom slipping away more and more every day. Anyone else feel that way?

Speaking of freedom, I still have not heard our prez utter the words freedom or liberty.

NOT.
ONCE.

Well, speaking from a Blue state....I was born in to that feeling in 1979. I do know that the GOP in Mass is very active and I have been emailing the Treasurer who is a good friend of State Sen. Scott Brown. Great people. Great heads on shoulders. I like what I see and I'm happy to call myself a new Republican in MA. I was registered Democrat for my whole life with no real reason....I can only chalk it up to how I was a "Catholic" from birth. We grow and learn. I kept the Catholicism and I rejected the "Democrat". Live and learn!

640 shortshrift  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 5:32:29pm

re: #634 iceweasel

re: #635 Cato the Elder

Thank you both for responding to my frivolous interruption of a serious discussion on the state of politics.
Candidly, I fear that what the erosion of our public discourse, and the lack of respect for the opposition, is not what is fundamentally wrong with the national polity. What is fundamentally wrong is that there is no national idea that now binds the nation as a nation. The post-national zeitgeist emanates from the left and is choking all.
But I must go. There is a Person from Porlock at the door...
There will be another opportunity I hope, for me to air my pessism.

641 Deseeded  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 5:43:36pm

re: #540 Lincolntf

If Obama "fixes" incomes anything like he "fixed" unemployment, we're all screwed.

Let's all make 15k a year and get government money! It will work! Seriously! /sarc

642 Gus  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 5:56:43pm

re: #636 iceweasel

It's important to understand the media interaction with the office of the presidency and the public perception within partisan groups of that interaction. Having been on many sides of the political spectrum I have been able to see that while as the perceived partisanship of the media flips it correlates with a dissatisfaction of the opposite partisan group.

I am reminded of On Bended Knee: The Press and the Reagan Presidency by by Mark Hertsgaard which was somewhat popular with the left from 1988 and forward. It is summarized by Library Journal:

During the Reagan years, the White House Press Corps has "functioned less as an independent than as a palace court press," according to Hertsgaard. Basing his arguments on hundreds of interviews with important administration leaders and reporters, Hertsgaard convincingly portrays the White House press as noncritical and sycophantic. As members of the same power elite that they write about, White House reporters more often than not agree with the President's policies. In addition, they have been reluctant to strongly criticize Reagan for fear of being cut off from the flow of information and of losing their privileged status. Recommended for media and current affairs collections.

While the names have changed the essential dynamics have remained constant. During this era the media was charged with being one sided and the rallying call was "on bended knee." This same perception and media dynamic was present during the post 2001 tenure of President George W. Bush and as you mention, Chris Matthews played a leading role. So much so that "On Bended Knee" was once again trotted out by anti-war groups since the perception at the time as perceived by "the left" was that the media was simply a mouth piece for the White House.

During the 1980s the perception by the left was that the media was "a right wing media." This included the Washington Post and the New York Times. In the end I think one can learn how the media interacts with the presidency by seeing how it interacts with liberal or conservative administrations and study the resulting reactions from liberal and conservative groups. That the media appears to be infatuated and accommodating to the Obama administration is not a unique phenomenon nor is it one that will remain constant (perceived as "serving" a particular partisan or ideological identity) given the history of the media and the White House.

Until the political winds shift once again and a new administration is elected into office it could be said that the media is "On Bended Knee: The Press and the Obama Administration."

643 Wendya  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:29:53pm

re: #629 medaura18586

As for the employer, s/he should have nothing to do with it.

Employers need to be left entirely out of the equation. We already function as unpaid tax collectors for the government and we really don't need any more mommy mandates.

644 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:30:58pm

re: #642 Gus 802

Awesome post Gus, I could not agree more. I will have to check out that book but it sounds spot-on to me, and your analysis astute.

I'm reminded also of lefty criticisms of the NYT and Judy Miller in the wake of 2001 and the movement towards the Iraq War. Many people even now persist in seeing 'the media' as left and believe it had a left bias during the Bush admin; in fact the real left is at least as furious with the media as people on the right currently are.

You say also this:

That the media appears to be infatuated and accommodating to the Obama administration is not a unique phenomenon nor is it one that will remain constant (perceived as "serving" a particular partisan or ideological identity) given the history of the media and the White House.

Until the political winds shift once again and a new administration is elected into office it could be said that the media is "On Bended Knee: The Press and the Obama Administration."

That's a brilliant and apposite observation, in my opinion. As is the observation that the media essentially abrogated its responsibility long ago, at least as long ago as during the Reagan admin.

I'd claim that their only concern now is with maintaining access to the machinery of power.

645 doubter4444  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:17:56pm

re: #362 haakondahl


Link please, or otherwise you seem to be a bullshit spouting apologist.

646 doubter4444  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:32:41pm

re: #395 iceweasel

If the eco-terrorists or radical animal rights groups start bombing labs and shooting researchers again, you can bet your bippy we'll be hearing about 'left wing extremists'.

Right wing extremists come out of the woodwork under a Dem admin. That's what we're seeing now.

How hard is this to figure out?
Honestly, the number of times I've seen "well the left did it to! Or "why don't they report left wing groups!"
It's a fucking bwaaaa party.
Tell me and link to, exactly the last time a FAR LEFT WING person or group assassinated someone in the United States?
I'm 50 and I don't remember the last time.
So quit whining, it's really depressing.
The way it's phrased, it seems all to be about CYA on the right side, is that really what we want to project?

647 ihateronpaul  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:53:53pm

re: #8 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is becoming a very bad replay of the 70's with the Black Panthers and other radical fringe groups doing violence.

the black panthers don't hold a candle to white power groups in terms of violence

648 Wendya  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:54:42pm

re: #646 doubter4444


Tell me and link to, exactly the last time a FAR LEFT WING person or group assassinated someone in the United States?
I'm 50 and I don't remember the last time.


Lee Harvey Oswald ring any bells for ya?

649 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:10:59pm

re: #638 Cato the Elder

Check your email! ;^)

Everyone is going to get sick, everyone who doesn't die quickly eventually needs long-term care. Not everyone is going to get into a major car accident. Not everyone is going to watch her house burn down.

Health care is a universal need, but it doesn't affect everyone the same way. In order to best serve the individual unique needs of each patient (or prospective patient) solutions must offer as much individual choice and personalization as possible.

One society sees health care as a public good to be paid for out of public funds (taxes). The other sees it as a luck-of-the-draw insurance gamble. Over the course of my life with its ups and downs, all else being equal (which it never is, of course), I'd feel better living under the former system.

It's one thing to see healthcare as a basic civil right to be guaranteed by government (taxpayer sanctioned and funded) for those who can't afford it. On an emotional level, it surely does feel too close to the skin not to be guaranteed by a humane society to all its members. One can make the same argument about nutrition, and indeed nearly one in ten Americans receives food stamps (a statistic that should shock us at face value, and indicate the system is being horrifically abused). If our society views basic nutrition as a civil right though, it doesn't mean that government should allocate a standardized food basket for everyone -- 2 loafs of bread, half a pound of beef, 2 bananas, and a glass of milk a day, for every citizen, everyday -- paid for by a tax-payer funded pool of resources. That would be dictatorial, nonsensical, inefficient, make everyone less happy, and, believe it or not, if the government were to manage the bureaucracy of it all, would end up costing more money. What we do instead is give "the poor" an allowance to be spent on food (used to be food stamps, now it's debit cards, supposedly to prevent the stigma).

Someone has to pay for health-care. Insurance is the best way to deal with it. Most people can afford it. Those who can't, can be financed so that they can meet the cost. I don't see the argument for homogenizing the entire system, removing choice, competition, and variety, and making government manage it. We've seen how well Medicare and Medicaid have been managed so far. Both programs have gone in debt and may default in years to come.


You spent 11 hours in pain waiting to see a doctor there. I've spent that long here having seen a doctor and waiting for the totally unproductive paper-pushing administrative staff to work through its issues with my insurance and discharge me so I could take my pain-pill prescription and get it filled.

That's unfortunate, but atypical. You're right to say below that our personal experiences color our stance, but there are hard-number statistics available, which confirm without a doubt that overall, despite our system's hiccups, the inconveniences it imposes on patients pale in comparison to those patients in socialized healthcare countries are subjected to.

650 shortshrift  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:14:45pm

re: #649 medaura18586

Very well done on the health thread. Cogent, forceful arguments. Thank you.

651 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:21:18pm
But there are horror stories enough on all sides, and anecdotes prove nothing but the perversity of fate. My fundamental issue is with how we view health care - as a lottery or as an inevitable cost of doing business under the social contract.

Correct on the first sentence, which is why we should ultimately look at clear statistics to inform our opinions on the matter. I have looked at many, and provided some here; they seem to support my case. On the second point, the cost of healthcare is, factually speaking, a function of these cold-hearted calculations and variables... There are actuarial formulas for calculating the expected cost of healthcare over the lifetime of any individual. Insurance is a way of statistically spreading those costs over your life, in manageable even payments, so you're never hit with an overwhelming bill you can't pay. Dealing with those costs through the insurance industry is a good idea because that industry specializes in offering customized coverage to meet anyone's needs, and in cutting waste and promoting operational efficiency.

How to pay for the insurance is another issue entirely, and could be dealt with via a more humane approach, the best I can think of being to simply cover "the poor" directly, the same way as the hungry are covered via food stamps. We don't have to dictate everyone's grocery shopping list in the process.

It would be greatly efficient to allow the insurance industry to make the best offerings it can to the market, without government regulations meddling with their operations, and then just make sure everyone can afford these offerings. Keeping healthcare (physicians' jobs) separated from insurance, and keeping insurance in turn separated from the means to pay for it, ensures the greatest efficiency all around.

Please read the article I linked to if you have time. You may get a better picture of what happens when these different operational spheres are meddled with by beurocrats.

Short story: everybody loses.

652 shortshrift  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:21:45pm

re: #646 doubter4444

The weathermen (Bill Ayers, his lovely wife, and others) killed 4 people.

653 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:23:59pm

re: #646 doubter4444

How hard is this to figure out?
Honestly, the number of times I've seen "well the left did it to! Or "why don't they report left wing groups!"
It's a fucking bwaaaa party.
Tell me and link to, exactly the last time a FAR LEFT WING person or group assassinated someone in the United States?
I'm 50 and I don't remember the last time.
So quit whining, it's really depressing.
The way it's phrased, it seems all to be about CYA on the right side, is that really what we want to project?

yeah, well, I try to be polite. I could say, point me to the last time a 'left wing extremist' murdered someone. i could point out that the DHS report was fucking prescient -- and that the people who howled loudest about it are currently digging their holes even deeper, by trying to keep spinning the report as unfounded and a smear, while also spinning Brunn and Roeder as anomalies or even (gasp) leftists! -- whatever leftists are.

(BTW: I'd recommend that you lighten up on haakondahl @ your 645 comment; he or she is cool, smart, reasonable and willing to tolerate others opinions and engage in debate, even when he/she doesn't agree with people. Just my opinion, but I respect him/her a lot, and not merely on the basis of the recent exchange we've had here but observation elsewhere.)

it seems all to be about CYA on the right side, is that really what we want to project?

This is another point: I think it's incredibly stupid and shortsighted politically and strategically for the right to go into CYA mode here, and that's what they've been doing (when not engaging in flinging poo at Brunn like "he's a liberal!" or "he's a lefty!" or "Obama made him do it!"). This is just a bad, bad strategy.

654 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:27:03pm

re: #652 shortshrift

The weathermen (Bill Ayers, his lovely wife, and others) killed 4 people.

Yeah, and fuck Bill Ayers. Even the left hates Bill Ayers and has done since back then. Bill Ayers wrecked the legitimate antiwar movement.

the weathermen came to represent the face of the anti-war movement during Vietnam and helped to demonise the legitimate antiwar movement.

655 medaura18586  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:28:00pm

re: #651 medaura18586

It would be greatly efficient to allow the insurance industry to make the best offerings it can to the market, without government regulations meddling with their operations, and then just make sure everyone can afford these offerings. Keeping healthcare (physicians' jobs) separated from insurance, and keeping insurance in turn separated from the means to pay for it, ensures the greatest efficiency all around.

Such enhanced efficiency is a direct corollary of the division of labor. Let's not forget that competition among deregulated insurance companies is the best drive for lowering costs.

656 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:29:25pm

re: #640 shortshrift

re: #635 Cato the Elder

Thank you both for responding to my frivolous interruption of a serious discussion on the state of politics.
Candidly, I fear that what the erosion of our public discourse, and the lack of respect for the opposition, is not what is fundamentally wrong with the national polity. What is fundamentally wrong is that there is no national idea that now binds the nation as a nation. The post-national zeitgeist emanates from the left and is choking all.
But I must go. There is a Person from Porlock at the door...
There will be another opportunity I hope, for me to air my pessism.

BTW, I only just got back to this thread and would love to talk to you more about this issue soon-- the zeitgist and your pessimism -- although right now I couldn't do it justice, I fear!

657 doubter4444  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:35:06pm

re: #648 Wendya

Lee Harvey Oswald ring any bells for ya?

Seriously? That's it?
Look there are others, and several attempted ones. It's not that hard to look up.

But as I said, it's been a long time.
Yes there are the very occasional EFL arson's and the like but in general, it's pretty quiet on the leftist front, and, despite the rhetoric during the Bush administration, non violent.
Or are we living in parallel worlds?
My real point is however, is that the attempted deflection of this to portray it as a leftist killer is ludicrous.
And it seems to me to be self serving ass covering, which is unseemly, unserious and ill advised.

658 doubter4444  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:39:30pm

re: #653 iceweasel
(BTW: I'd recommend that you lighten up on haakondahl @ your 645 comment; he or she is cool, smart, reasonable and willing to tolerate others opinions and engage in debate, even when he/she doesn't agree with people. Just my opinion, but I respect him/her a lot, and not merely on the basis of the recent exchange we've had here but observation elsewhere.)

To Haakondahl:
Iceweasel is right, Apologies, I was rude!
My point stands, but again, that's is not the way I usually talk, only when i think people are just making up stories to support a point.
I've looked over (some of) your stuff. It was unwarranted, so again please accept my apology.

659 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:41:24pm

re: #657 doubter4444


My real point is however, is that the attempted deflection of this to portray it as a leftist killer is ludicrous.
And it seems to me to be self serving ass covering, which is unseemly, unserious and ill advised.

Can't be said enough. Upding.

What mystifies me is that this should be clear to people on the right! It's not a lefty plot to steal precious bodily fluids; it's merely smart, expedient, serious politics to stop the poo-flinging.

660 doubter4444  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:44:12pm

re: #654 iceweasel

Yeah, and fuck Bill Ayers. Even the left hates Bill Ayers and has done since back then. Bill Ayers wrecked the legitimate antiwar movement.

the weathermen came to represent the face of the anti-war movement during Vietnam and helped to demonise the legitimate antiwar movement.

Not to mention that he did all that in the 70's for gods sake.
Does not make it right, but I think that was the last time something like that happened. 30 plus years ago.
Look, I'm not making excuses for left wign violence, but I think you got to admit that the problem of domestic violence is more prevelant from the far far right.
All I'm sayingis that trying to pin it on the left is pertty churlish, reeks of avoidance, and besides, it ain't going to work.

661 Wendya  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:44:35pm

re: #657 doubter4444

Seriously? That's it?

Is that not good enough?


My real point is however, is that the attempted deflection of this to portray it as a leftist killer is ludicrous.
And it seems to me to be self serving ass covering, which is unseemly, unserious and ill advised.


I would describe him as more on the left than on the right by using typical American parameters of what we consider right/left such as personal freedom and government interventions. That doesn't make him a democrat or a leftist in the traditional sense. Some people and ideologies are so far off the chart they can't be compared to members of our two party system.

662 zoidberg  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:48:20pm

That guy looks like he visits the same hair stylist as Josef Fritzl!

663 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:51:17pm

re: #660 doubter4444

Not to mention that he did all that in the 70's for gods sake.
Does not make it right, but I think that was the last time something like that happened. 30 plus years ago.
Look, I'm not making excuses for left wign violence, but I think you got to admit that the problem of domestic violence is more prevelant from the far far right.
All I'm sayingis that trying to pin it on the left is pertty churlish, reeks of avoidance, and besides, it ain't going to work.

Agree with you; small caveat that "domestic violence" ought to be changed to "domestic terrorism" or "violence from domestic groups" or some such (yes, I'm a feminist pedant like that).

Also, why the hell is Ayers even an issue? No one likes or condones what he did back then and its frankly bizarre in the extreme that we're all now acting like he's Obama's Chief of Staff or something.

There are lots of reasons why domestic terrorism from the right is a huge issue right now and is more worrying than the possibility of attacks from the left; one is that we we always see an upswing in right-wing violence under a Dem admin. It's not a coincidence that abortion-related violence and anti-govt or militia violence exploded in the 90's.

664 eaglewingz08  Fri, Jun 12, 2009 8:19:49am

"The responsible white separatist community" is a laughable disconnect said without insight or irony by these hateful individuals. It would be sort of like Bellatrix Black Lestrange saying, 'the responsible death eater community.'
I just note the wonder in how in just two days the murderous racist
VB has been outed as a socialist democrap. This guy is going to drop off lib democraps' radar screens faster 'than purveyors of the 'the frog march the torture memos guys' after Nancy Pelousy's meltown. Then all of a sudden, VB will be a lone gunman and his views have no bearing on the views of any other lib/progressive group. And the same groups that always claim that muslim murderer terrorists have 'distorted islam' and/or 'don't represent islam' are the same libtards who when some nutcase does evil, and for whom they can show two lines in his writings that mimic some conservative policy positions (despite a thousand other lines showing connections to libtard thinking) he/she is automatically labelled representative of conservatism, hard line, extremist conservatism or republicanism, and that republicans and conservatives are a clear and present danger to the republic. Yet we never hear the same arch or extreme tags ever placed on killers and murderers on the left. Some might call that bias, but the leftwing media remains blissfully sure of its own
perfect objectivity.

665 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 12, 2009 9:31:52am

re: #664 eaglewingz08

The report on blogs and Free Republic that Von Brunn was registered as a Democrat has not been proven true. It originates at a blog that has been known to play fast and loose with facts. I don't believe it, without something to back it up.

666 doubter4444  Fri, Jun 12, 2009 10:05:59am

eaglewingz08:
Yet we never hear the same arch or extreme tags ever placed on killers and murderers on the left. Some might call that bias, but the leftwing media remains blissfully sure of its own
perfect objectivity.

But as I mentioned above, who are those "murderers and killers"?
Where are they?
As stated, Ayers did, 35 plus years ago... unless you want to include John Hinkley or the Unibomber, (which are kind of a stretch, and frankly, if the issue is media circus and reporting, neither of those two cases really do much for your point), where are the left-wing killers?
I am speaking of domestic terrorists, of course, (and thanks Iceweasel, I meant domestic terrorist violence in my post above)
And that's kind of the problem is defining the left as full of violent liberal fanatics, because for the most part, the left is accused of being soft pantywaists afraid to offend and certainly way to wussy to defend themselves or the country, and ready to prostrate themselves on the alter of... well you name it.

So now, all of a sudden, they are some deranged group bent on world domination and a totalitarian overthrow of the government.
God bless those who reconcile the two, that's some pretty good mental gymnastics. Being able to do that will get you a guest blog shot at free republic.

667 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:14:00am

re: #185 loppyd

You said this:
Charles banned her cause he doesn't want that trash over here...

I take that statement to imply that she is trash. A statement which I strongly disagree with.

As for posting on other sites, you would find it interesting to know that some here used to post regularly at what is now referred to as the "original stalker site" - but you wouldn't know because that was before "The Awakening."

As far as I'm concerned there is something trashy - something of the waste receptacle, shall we say, about someone who decides that they feel more comfortable posting on a hate site that is obsessively dedicated to lying and smearing this site its owner and those who post here. She can stuff her pious prayer list where the sun don't shine too.


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