Thursday Night Music: Steely Dan, ‘Kid Charlemagne’
Music • Views: 3,195
From the excellent live performance DVD Two Against Nature, Steely Dan with their classic “Kid Charlemagne.”
266 comments
5 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:07:50pm |
"Kid Charlemagne"? Didn't he used to be known as Charlie Brown?
//////
| 6 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:08:52pm |
YES. I love Steely Dan. The backing musicians on the original version were amazing. Larry Carlton was a beast. I assume it was Chuck Rainey on bass -another monster. Drums....Porcaro? Gordon? Purdie? Marotta?
| 7 |
SteveC Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:09:14pm |
re: #5 Dark_Falcon
"Kid Charlemagne"? Didn't he used to be known as Charlie Brown?
//////
That was back before the war.
"The Waw," us Southerners might say.
| 8 |
Fenway_Nation Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:10:32pm |
The Savage Alberta railway is no more, but I thought I'd leave you lizards with this image of the affiliated Savage, Garfield & Bingham in Utah.
Later!
| 10 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:11:14pm |
re: #6 Bloodnok
YES. I love Steely Dan. The backing musicians on the original version were amazing. Larry Carlton was a beast. I assume it was Chuck Rainey on bass -another monster. Drums....Porcaro? Gordon? Purdie? Marotta?
According to Wiki it was Bernard Purdie. Quite a character and quite a drummer (for proof listen to "Home At Last" right now).
| 12 |
SteveC Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:11:28pm |
Billy Joe McAlister jumped off the Saluda River Bridge.
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — When drivers on a stretch of South Carolina interstate saw someone jump off a bridge, they called 911, fearing they were watching a suicide. Instead, multiple media outlets reported Thursday that the callers were just watching Lyle Silkwood jump from the Interstate 26 bridge into the Saluda River near Columbia to meet a passing friend in a boat after his truck ran out of gas.
| 13 |
Gus Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:11:43pm |
| 14 |
BatGuano Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:11:52pm |
re: #6 Bloodnok
YES. I love Steely Dan. The backing musicians on the original version were amazing. Larry Carlton was a beast. I assume it was Chuck Rainey on bass -another monster. Drums....Porcaro? Gordon? Purdie? Marotta?
You mean Jim Gordon?
| 16 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:12:44pm |
very cool...looks like Skunk Baxter was not the lead guitarist this time, but the guy with the big 335 was really good...give it a 4.5
| 17 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:12:55pm |
re: #14 BatGuano
You mean Jim Gordon?
I thought it might be, but it wasn't. Jim Gordon was one of the session drummers they used from time to time. They used quite a few. Jim Keltner was another.
| 18 |
experiencedtraveller Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:13:11pm |
"Your low rent friends are dead."
/dayyum Steely Dan
| 19 |
clgood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:13:23pm |
Just imagine how tight musicians would have to be to play live with these guys. Awesome.
| 21 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:14:11pm |
Always loved that fishing song
reelin in the years
| 25 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:15:02pm |
Jim Gordon is a gonner...murdered his mom and id doing hard time somewhere in a psych ward...very sad
| 26 |
gearhead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:15:05pm |
"Clean this mess up or we'll all end up in jail."
Wow, Charles! A Steely Dan thread. I knew it was gonna be a good day.
| 27 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:15:10pm |
Hmmm ... maybe I will ask for a Father's Day present. Cool video, great song.
| 28 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:15:20pm |
| 29 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:17:04pm |
| 30 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:19:20pm |
I met Jeff Baxter in a music store in NYC in the early '80s.
| 31 |
experiencedtraveller Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:19:57pm |
re: #20 buzzsawmonkey
Really good musicians are adept at Fagen it.
A house without music is a bleak house.
| 32 |
BatGuano Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:20:55pm |
re: #25 albusteve
Jim Gordon is a gonner...murdered his mom and id doing hard time somewhere in a psych ward...very sad
So, I heard. I saw him on August 4, 1975 in Portland, Oregon. He was playing drums for Eric Clapton on his tour.
| 33 |
gearhead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:21:52pm |
Has anyone else been experiencing slow page loads? Has traffic been especially heavy?
| 36 |
Randall Gross Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:22:50pm |
This is one of my favorites, listen closely to the lyrics -- if I'm not mistaken this is a tribute to the legendary Owlsley.
| 37 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:22:51pm |
re: #30 Tarkus289
I met Jeff Baxter in a music store in NYC in the early '80s.
You mean Missile Defense Analyst (for NASA) Jeff "Skunk" Baxter?
| 38 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:23:11pm |
re: #32 BatGuano
So, I heard. I saw him on August 4, 1975 in Portland, Oregon. He was playing drums for Eric Clapton on his tour.
From wiki:'
"In the late 1970s, Gordon complained of hearing voices in his head, primarily those of his mother. Unfortunately, his physicians did not diagnose his condition as schizophrenia and instead treated him for alcohol abuse.
On June 3, 1983, he murdered his mother with a hammer. It was not until his trial in 1984 that he was properly diagnosed. Due to the fact that his attorney was unable to use the insanity defense, he was sentenced to sixteen years to life in prison with a possibility of parole. He has served his sentence at the California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo, Atascadero State Hospital in Atascadero, and the State Medical Corrections Facility in Vacaville. He remains incarcerated. Currently, there is a petition on line to assist him in either being released from prison or placed in a facility where he is able to receive more sophisticated treatment."
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 41 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:24:13pm |
re: #32 BatGuano
So, I heard. I saw him on August 4, 1975 in Portland, Oregon. He was playing drums for Eric Clapton on his tour.
in his bio Clapton was very generous with Gordon...said he was the best drummer out there....not my opinion
| 43 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:24:38pm |
| 45 |
BatGuano Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:25:33pm |
re: #38 Pvt Bin Jammin
Horrible story. I was a fan of his since Derek and the Dominoes. It is sad when I remember him on stage playing his heart out.
| 47 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:26:26pm |
re: #44 Bloodnok
Son of a gun, now that I read that I think I remember reading about that here a while ago, maybe you posted something about it.
| 49 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:26:56pm |
re: #47 Tarkus289
Son of a gun, now that I read that I think I remember reading about that here a while ago, maybe you posted something about it.
Heh! Probably!
| 50 |
ryannon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:27:21pm |
Believe it or not, 'Kid Charlemagne' is all about this guy:
[Link: laughingsquid.com...]
| 51 |
yochanan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:27:26pm |
" The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media. The 1st Amendment is abrogated -- henceforth."
who said this rev wright or the d.c. anti semite
| 52 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:28:16pm |
re: #51 yochanan
" The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media. The 1st Amendment is abrogated -- henceforth."
who said this rev wright or the d.c. anti semite
Ron Paul
| 53 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:28:28pm |
"He used to cut the grass, he was a very nice boy"
| 54 |
BatGuano Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:28:37pm |
re: #41 albusteve
I understand. I read Clapton's bio. My pick is Ginger Baker (not because he's associated with Clapton).
| 55 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:28:52pm |
re: #45 BatGuano
Horrible story. I was a fan of his since Derek and the Dominoes. It is sad when I remember him on stage playing his heart out.
I always liked him too. Damn schizophrenia, what a terrible illness. His poor mother.
| 56 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:29:03pm |
| 57 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:29:20pm |
| 58 |
brookly red Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:29:34pm |
re: #50 ryannon
Believe it or not, 'Kid Charlemagne' is all about this guy:
[Link: laughingsquid.com...]
crossed a dimond with a pearl & turned it on the world...
| 59 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:30:26pm |
OT: Here's a good one on the background of that Nazi James Von Brunn:
| 60 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:31:09pm |
re: #56 albusteve
check out Brian May....PHD
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Astrophysicist? I never knew that.
| 61 |
_RememberTonyC Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:31:26pm |
Lakers' big men gasol, odom, and bynum all with 2 personals in the first qtr ...
| 62 |
Randall Gross Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:32:40pm |
Owsley hates veggies btw, he eats nothing but proteins, here's a comment he left in a forum back in 2006, he's living in Queensland now:
[Link: forum.lowcarber.org...]
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:33:06pm |
re: #51 yochanan
It was Brunn who said that. BTW, when referring to Germans who have a "Von" the von should only be used when saying their full name or if preceded by a rank or title. If only the surname is to be used, the von should be absent.
| 64 |
ryannon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:33:20pm |
re: #58 brookly red
crossed a dimond with a pearl & turned it on the world...
Those were some days (and nights)....
| 65 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:34:06pm |
| 66 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:35:30pm |
re: #54 BatGuano
I understand. I read Clapton's bio. My pick is Ginger Baker (not because he's associated with Clapton).
so many great ones...old and new...my pick would be Little Feat's Richie Hayward...hands down
| 67 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:35:39pm |
re: #65 jorline
Hey you guys going to get any thunderstorms tonight?
| 68 |
experiencedtraveller Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:35:45pm |
re: #59 Dark_Falcon
It seems our man was a smorgasbord of insanity.
| 69 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:36:15pm |
Lysergic acid diethylamide,
............... never heard of it.
| 70 |
BatGuano Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:37:27pm |
re: #69 Tarkus289
Lysergic acid diethylamide,
............... never heard of it.
I can fill you in. :)
| 71 |
freetoken Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:38:47pm |
re: #59 Dark_Falcon
Yes, the No-True-Conservative could believe in Jewish-control-conspiracies article. Got play all over the 'net.
| 73 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:39:17pm |
re: #67 NonNativeTexan
Hey you guys going to get any thunderstorms tonight?
hopes up....checking...checking...hell, Austin and north.
*sigh*
| 74 |
BatGuano Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:39:35pm |
re: #66 albusteve
I'll look into that. Drummer's are under rated. No drummer, no band.
| 75 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:39:46pm |
| 76 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:40:30pm |
re: #73 jorline
hopes up....checking...checking...hell, Austin and north.
*sigh*
Too bad, know you guys need it. We've had plenty.
4-6 today alone.
| 77 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:40:49pm |
| 78 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:40:56pm |
I used to know how to do this, but forget the exact technique of it this morning when I needed it.
Lo and behold, I found a How To link on the interwebs in less than ten seconds to help refresh my memory:
How To: No Tangle Extension Cord Storage
Some days I love the interwebs.
| 79 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:41:19pm |
re: #75 albusteve
I saw these guys open for Steve Morse in NY a couple of years ago,
very strange show.
| 81 |
Sharmuta Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:41:51pm |
re: #74 BatGuano
I'll look into that. Drummer's are under rated. No drummer, no band.
Drummers fascinate me. I love watching them. I knew a drummer for awhile- he was in 3 bands, and I'd try to hit as many of his shows as I could, because he was really good.
| 82 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:42:11pm |
re: #76 NonNativeTexan
Too bad, know you guys need it. We've had plenty.
4-6 today alone.
Does water still run down hill? I know shit does...just checking.
We're very dry.
| 83 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:42:38pm |
re: #71 freetoken
Yes, the No-True-Conservative could believe in Jewish-control-conspiracies article. Got play all over the 'net.
No true conservative would believe that. Brunn not only hated Jews, like Hitler he hated Christianity as well. The man was a fascist, and fascists are not conservatives. Thus it is a fact to say that no true conservative would think like James von Brunn.
| 84 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:42:48pm |
re: #81 Sharmuta
Me! I'm one of those, and they told me I was good.
| 85 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:43:20pm |
re: #82 jorline
I'll keep my fingers crossed...Hard t type thoiugh
| 86 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:43:23pm |
re: #80 NonNativeTexan
Suburb of Dallas.
OK...please send it south. I lived in Allen and Plano during the mid 80's.
| 87 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:44:33pm |
re: #75 albusteve
I had to make sure to applaud enthusiastically, so as not to be berated by the drummer, he saw some guy not clapping and he stopped the show and yelled at him.
| 88 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:44:45pm |
re: #86 jorline
OK...please send it south. I lived in Allen and Plano during the mid 80's.
You should have bought a few acres back then, you'd
be set...
| 89 |
BatGuano Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:46:08pm |
re: #81 Sharmuta
If you haven't already, check out Gene krupa in Sing, Sing, Sing. It's on youtube. I watch it frequently.
| 90 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:47:04pm |
re: #83 Dark_Falcon
The talking point won't work but that's not going to stop people from embarrassing themselves trying. He wasn't a conservative but he was far right wing extremist. For example : The libertarian extremists and Paulians hate neoconservatives and Israel but they are still right wing. Same goes for the Paleoconservatives and fascists.
| 91 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:48:22pm |
re: #74 BatGuano
I'll look into that. Drummer's are under rated. No drummer, no band.
Little Feat is the finest live rock and roll band ever....no small thing...I have seen them probably a hundred time or more...I have spoken
| 92 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:48:33pm |
re: #90 Killgore Trout
He was a Jew-hating low life, that's all we need to know.
| 93 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:48:41pm |
re: #88 NonNativeTexan
You should have bought a few acres back then, you'd
be set...
lol...back then Allen was in the country...a blip off 75 and McKinney was a Sunday drive.
| 94 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:49:29pm |
re: #93 jorline
lol...back then Allen was in the country...a blip off 75 and McKinney was a Sunday drive.
If you or I had bought it, it would still be East BFE.
;)
| 96 |
aRedPhishHead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:49:57pm |
Ahh yes. Can't ever go wrong with the Dan.
More stuff from Aja next time! Or even Gaucho!
| 97 |
Tarkus289 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:50:01pm |
re: #89 BatGuano
A friend of mine was performing in some kind of show, he was 6 years old,
Gene Krupa saw him and spoke to his mother and said I want to mentor him, so he did, and he studied with him until he passed away, needless to say, my friend is a spectacular drummer. World Class.
| 98 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:50:27pm |
re: #95 Sharmuta
I changed my nic link back to The Pretenders.
Do you own a big chunk of the bloody third world?
/
| 99 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:50:53pm |
re: #87 Tarkus289
I had to make sure to applaud enthusiastically, so as not to be berated by the drummer, he saw some guy not clapping and he stopped the show and yelled at him.
road house, like I said...
another young bunch I like alot...from Burlington VT
| 100 |
Wendya Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:51:51pm |
| 101 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:52:07pm |
| 102 |
aRedPhishHead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:53:08pm |
Little Feat is the finest live rock and roll band ever....no small thing...I have seen them probably a hundred time or more...I have spoken
Well, nothing tops Phish 1993-1997, IMHO, but Little Feat was unreal :-)
Lowell George was the finest vocalist rock ever had. Great, groovy, snarky, deep-fried stuff.
| 103 |
Zimriel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:53:24pm |
D&D update!
I posted here earlier that I've been refusing to buy 4th edition stuff, because Hasbro sucks. But I've recently found out about Pathfinder, which is the "new gaming system" which happens to be designed by D&D's designers (wink, nudge).
What looks daunting is the sheer volume of material they are selling for this thing. Gulp. It looks like everyone who ever wrote for TSR / WotC has migrated over and churned out 96 page modules.
Anyway the game world they've set up looks Greyhawk-ish: lots of separate cities, nations, and wilderness; peopled by the usual elves and orcs. But the individual nations look interesting. It has some fun in-jokes: the region which is constantly falling apart and executing the last revolutionary regime is named "Galt". Someone's been playing Bioshock.
| 105 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:55:01pm |
re: #100 Wendya
Jethro Tull
two words, yes?....
you have never seen Feat live...when you do they will blow you away...Tull is long gone, history
| 106 |
irongrampa Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:55:12pm |
Something to share-tomorrow our elementary school is having a Veteran's Appreciation Day,a few of us are going to go to several classrooms and talk to the kids. We do this each year, and I wouldn't miss it for anything.
More than a few, it turns out, have parents in the military. These kids all get told to go hug their Mom or Dad, 'cause heroes need hugs occasionally.
Works for me, anyway.
| 107 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:56:15pm |
re: #83 Dark_Falcon
No true conservative would believe that. Brunn not only hated Jews, like Hitler he hated Christianity as well. The man was a fascist, and fascists are not conservatives. Thus it is a fact to say that no true conservative would think like James von Brunn.
I can't disagree with you on this at all, but I will refer you to KT's point @ 90 above in re: right wing extremists.
Brunn's no 'conservative' and people who try to claim that he was should be refuted, -- but he's also no 'liberal'. And fascism is not a 'liberal' phenomenon, pace Jonah Goldberg.
| 108 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:56:28pm |
re: #90 Killgore Trout
I don't understand how he can be thought of as right-wing. He opposed everything the GOP stands for. He hates the Religious Right, hates capitalism, hates America, loves "racial purity". Brunn is not something conservatives need to apologize for. His views are not ours and never have been.
| 109 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:56:49pm |
| 110 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:57:28pm |
re: #109 jorline
A little more Steely Dan...Hey Babylon.
[Video]Thanks Charles
nice...I like an encore myself
| 111 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:57:46pm |
re: #106 irongrampa
Something to share-tomorrow our elementary school is having a Veteran's Appreciation Day,a few of us are going to go to several classrooms and talk to the kids. We do this each year, and I wouldn't miss it for anything.
More than a few, it turns out, have parents in the military. These kids all get told to go hug their Mom or Dad, 'cause heroes need hugs occasionally.Works for me, anyway.
Thank you for that.
One thing our little school district does for Veteran's Day is have the kids in seventh grade make posters about a family member or friend to display outside along the drive. My kids, as they have chosen different subjects, have learned a lot about their relatives and family history and so have I.
| 112 |
gearhead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:57:53pm |
re: #96 aRedPhishHead
Ahh yes. Can't ever go wrong with the Dan.
More stuff from Aja next time! Or even Gaucho!
We're gonna break out the hats and hooters
When Josie comes home.
| 113 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:58:59pm |
re: #108 Dark_Falcon
I don't understand how he can be thought of as right-wing. He opposed everything the GOP stands for. He hates the Religious Right, hates capitalism, hates America, loves "racial purity". Brunn is not something conservatives need to apologize for. His views are not ours and never have been.
Can you just imagine a world consisting only of Von Brunns? What a sad, hatefilled shithole it would be.
| 114 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:59:17pm |
re: #107 iceweasel
I can't disagree with you on this at all, but I will refer you to KT's point @ 90 above in re: right wing extremists.
Brunn's no 'conservative' and people who try to claim that he was should be refuted, -- but he's also no 'liberal'. And fascism is not a 'liberal' phenomenon, pace Jonah Goldberg.
That's one of the reasons I don't like reducing everything to 'left' and 'right': It makes mainstream people get pinned with blame from nuts whom the did not know or encourage. Brunn was a totalitarian, and no one mainstream conservative or liberal has any share of blame for his insanities.
| 115 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:59:35pm |
re: #109 jorline
Man, forgot how good brass and rock and roll go together..
| 116 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:59:39pm |
re: #111 OldLineTexan
Thank you for that.
One thing our little school district does for Veteran's Day is have the kids in seventh grade make posters about a family member or friend to display outside along the drive. My kids, as they have chosen different subjects, have learned a lot about their relatives and family history and so have I.
Hey you old coot...how are you tonight OLT?
| 117 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:00pm |
re: #113 A Kiwi Infidel
Can you just imagine a world consisting only of Von Brunns? What a sad, hatefilled shithole it would be.
Nazi Germany circa 1938
| 118 |
Truck Monkey Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:14pm |
| 119 |
MacDuff Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:19pm |
re: #106 irongrampa
Something to share-tomorrow our elementary school is having a Veteran's Appreciation Day,a few of us are going to go to several classrooms and talk to the kids. We do this each year, and I wouldn't miss it for anything.
More than a few, it turns out, have parents in the military. These kids all get told to go hug their Mom or Dad, 'cause heroes need hugs occasionally.Works for me, anyway.
Beautiful idea. Little things like this are what keep our civilization alive for they become big things as these children grow older.
| 120 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:24pm |
re: #116 jorline
Hey you old coot...how are you tonight OLT?
I am still after that wascally squirrel ... how's it goin'?
| 121 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:34pm |
re: #103 Zimriel
It has some fun in-jokes: the region which is constantly falling apart and executing the last revolutionary regime is named "Galt". Someone's been playing Bioshock.
That's hilarious! -- But why is it a bioshock reference? (forgive the nongamer here) -- (I was reading it as a political reference.) (Ayn Rand/Going "galt"/ "galt gulch")
| 123 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:41pm |
| 124 |
ryannon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:42pm |
re: #36 Thanos
This is one of my favorites, listen closely to the lyrics -- if I'm not mistaken this is a tribute to the legendary Owlsley.
"The name Owsley became a noun that appears in the Oxford dictionary as English street slang for good acid. It is the most famous brand name in LSD history. Probably the first private individual to manufacture the psychedelic, "Owsley" is a folk hero of the counterculture, celebrated in songs by the Grateful Dead and Steely Dan."
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
| 125 |
Occasional Reader Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:42pm |
"Rock & Roll"? You mean that stuff that's all caterwaulin', and where ya cant's tell the boys from the girls? "Devil music", that's what *I* calls it.
| 126 |
jim in virginia Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:49pm |
re: #82 jorline
Does water still run down hill? I know shit does...just checking.
We're very dry.
Can we send you some of our rain? We had 13 inches in Aprl, same in May, 4 so far in June.
| 127 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:00:59pm |
| 128 |
brookly red Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:01:51pm |
re: #113 A Kiwi Infidel
Can you just imagine a world consisting only of Von Brunns? What a sad, hatefilled shithole it would be.
Well I am sure we could get over it if they had oil...
| 129 |
Sharmuta Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:02:20pm |
re: #114 Dark_Falcon
That's one of the reasons I don't like reducing everything to 'left' and 'right': It makes mainstream people get pinned with blame from nuts whom the did not know or encourage. Brunn was a totalitarian, and no one mainstream conservative or liberal has any share of blame for his insanities.
You should consider reading A Conflict of Visions. "Left-Right" just doesn't work.
| 130 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:02:57pm |
re: #113 A Kiwi Infidel
Can you just imagine a world consisting only of Von Brunns? What a sad, hatefilled shithole it would be.
I am student of WWII so I know all about the vision he has for the world. I hate that vision because I've seen where it leads: It leads to the murder of millions, all because they were Jews. I don't have a direct connection to the Holocaust and i'm not Jewish, but I've read the stories and seen the pictures and I could never forget where the designs of men like Brunn lead: The horror is burned into my memory.
| 131 |
rightymouse Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:03:36pm |
I love Steely Dan. Brings back good memories. :)
Meanwhile, thought those of you who cared would want to know that my autistic son made Honor Roll again in his private school. 4th Quarter.
On the grading system at his school, 80% is considered a C+. They are tough.
| 132 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:03:37pm |
re: #128 brookly red
Well I am sure we could get over it if they had oil...
Sad isnt it, that we pathetically kowtow with our money for a resource we so desperately need from those they have it yet hate us soooooooooo much.
| 133 |
gearhead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:04:20pm |
re: #125 Occasional Reader
"Rock & Roll"? You mean that stuff that's all caterwaulin', and where ya cant's tell the boys from the girls? "Devil music", that's what *I* calls it.
Is that a Black Sabbath album you're hiding behind your back?
| 134 |
Occasional Reader Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:05:16pm |
re: #133 gearhead
Is that a Black Sabbath album you're hiding behind your back?
"al-bum"? What is this "al-um" of which you speak? Is that some new upgrade to iTunes?!
| 135 |
brookly red Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:05:28pm |
re: #132 A Kiwi Infidel
Sad isnt it, that we pathetically kowtow with our money for a resource we so desperately need from those they have it yet hate us soooooooooo much.
yes, but sad is not the word I was thinking of...
| 136 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:05:49pm |
re: #129 Sharmuta
You should consider reading A Conflict of Visions. "Left-Right" just doesn't work.
I was pondering that statement and thought perhaps we need to expand the plain from lateral to third dimensional, include a North and South. I am sure von brunn would fit into a "deep south right" description.
| 137 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:06:03pm |
re: #126 jim in virginia
Can we send you some of our rain? We had 13 inches in Aprl, same in May, 4 so far in June.
Dang. You can send some of that rain out here to So Calif. We've had over a week of cloudy damp days but hardly any rain. Had to put on the sprinklers a few minutes ago. Our lawn looks like heck.
| 138 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:06:21pm |
re: #129 Sharmuta
You should consider reading A Conflict of Visions. "Left-Right" just doesn't work.
I'll look into that book. It might be worth a read.
| 139 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:06:41pm |
re: #135 brookly red
yes, but sad is not the word I was thinking of...
I did include pathetic, does that help?
| 140 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:06:47pm |
re: #114 Dark_Falcon
That's one of the reasons I don't like reducing everything to 'left' and 'right': It makes mainstream people get pinned with blame from nuts whom the did not know or encourage. Brunn was a totalitarian, and no one mainstream conservative or liberal has any share of blame for his insanities.
Yes, I understand and agree. That's one of my issues with talk of fascism -- it seems really clear that there's authoritarianism on both the left and the right. There are 'leftist' authoritarianist regimes, and there have been 'rightist' authoritarianist regimes.
On the other hand, I don't think reasonable people are trying to claim that Brunn was somehow indicative of conservatism or 'the right' as a whole-- but i do think that it's undeniable that Brunn falls into the category of right wing extremist.
This doesn't smear the right wing or conservatism, any more than identifying the animal rights activist who decides to murder a scientist as a 'left wing extremist' smears liberals or the left. In my opinion.
| 141 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:06:51pm |
re: #136 A Kiwi Infidel
I was pondering that statement and thought perhaps we need to expand the plain from lateral to third dimensional, include a North and South. I am sure von brunn would fit into a "deep south right" description.
Oh Lord, now he's a Republican from Mississippi.
/
| 142 |
Sharmuta Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:07:00pm |
re: #138 Dark_Falcon
It is worth a read, otherwise I wouldn't be pimping it so much.
| 143 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:07:19pm |
Jones On the Outs With Obama? Gates Defends National Security Adviser
Several White House and National Security Council sources told FOX News that the Obama administration is baffled by Jones, who is a longtime friend of Sen. John McCain, the man Obama defeated for the White House.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
But this is the interesting part:
"He admitted generational differences exist between the White House and the foreign policy makers, but added that he doesn't sense "antagonism" or "jealousy."
"Jim and (Secretary of State) Hillary (Clinton) and I have joked with each other that we're of a different generation than those in the White House," Gates said. "While they're texting, we're on the cell phone or even a land line."
So Hilliary Gates and Jones don't see eye to eye with Obama and the young Chicago mafia? And we know who will win that fight? That should worry people.
| 144 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:07:22pm |
re: #134 Occasional Reader
True story. My sons found a old box of 8-tracks. They asked,
Dad are these Nintendo cartridges? Sad, my sons did not
know what 8 tracks were , I felt defeated as a father.
| 145 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:07:25pm |
re: #136 A Kiwi Infidel
I was pondering that statement and thought perhaps we need to expand the plain from lateral to third dimensional, include a North and South. I am sure von brunn would fit into a "deep south right" description.
If "South" simply means "racist" then yes I could see that working.
| 146 |
irongrampa Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:07:49pm |
Time for the old folk. Good night, good people.
Remember--heads high, we'll prevail.
| 147 |
gearhead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:08:10pm |
re: #134 Occasional Reader
"al-bum"? What is this "al-um" of which you speak? Is that some new upgrade to iTunes?!
Forgive me. Is that a Black Sabbath 8-track behind your back?
Better?
| 148 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:08:12pm |
re: #141 OldLineTexan
Oh Lord, now he's a Republican from Mississippi.
/
Further south than that. On this earth it would be somewhere chilly, in the spiritual realm it would be quite the opposite...
| 149 |
Zimriel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:08:23pm |
re: #121 iceweasel
That's hilarious! -- But why is it a bioshock reference? (forgive the nongamer here) -- (I was reading it as a political reference.) (Ayn Rand/Going "galt"/ "galt gulch")
Oh... because BioShock is the game which satirised Galt-ness most effectively IMO. :^) Only there the leader's name was "Andy Ryan".
| 150 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:08:52pm |
re: #136 A Kiwi Infidel
I was pondering that statement and thought perhaps we need to expand the plain from lateral to third dimensional, include a North and South. I am sure von brunn would fit into a "deep south right" description.
are you serious?...that's just finer than a froghair...good for debate maybe, if you're into that stuff but of little use in the real world....nobody lays claim to this old killer...he is what he is, it's not about verbal definition
| 151 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:09:03pm |
| 152 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:09:12pm |
re: #148 A Kiwi Infidel
Further south than that. On this earth it would be somewhere chilly, in the spiritual realm it would be quite the opposite...
"Deep South" has a particular meaning in the US.
| 153 |
Noam Sayin' Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:10:11pm |
| 154 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:10:13pm |
re: #150 albusteve
are you serious?...that's just finer than a froghair...good for debate maybe, if you're into that stuff but of little use in the real world....nobody lays claim to this old killer...he is what he is, it's not about verbal definition
Then we can stick him on Mercury. For however long he may have, he can spew his hate there, all on his own.
| 155 |
saberry0530 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:10:41pm |
| 156 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:10:52pm |
re: #129 Sharmuta
You should consider reading A Conflict of Visions. "Left-Right" just doesn't work.
Sharmuta-- Is this related to the constrained/unconstrained idea I've seen you and others mention? I haven't read this and am not familiar with the terms, but I would fully endorse the idea that the political spectrum can't be adequately described in terms of binaries -- or even in a linear model.
| 157 |
Noam Sayin' Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:11:16pm |
I haven't scanned back through the thread, yet, but I'm wondering. Do girl lizards like Steely Dan? All my female friends hate them.
| 158 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:11:23pm |
re: #152 OldLineTexan
"Deep South" has a particular meaning in the US.
Yes I am aware of the term but hadnt made the connection before posting. Hope no offence taken, my apologies if so.
| 159 |
ShanghaiEd Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:11:29pm |
re: #134 Occasional Reader
"al-bum"? What is this "al-um" of which you speak? Is that some new upgrade to iTunes?!
Trivia question: How did the term "record album" originate?
(First correct answer gets pie.)
| 160 |
snowcrash Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:11:30pm |
The insurance adjuster and the roofing guy just left. Be careful what you ask for when you want rain, might come with wind! My house got pummeled last night. 2 trees down and 1/3 roofing shingles torn off with some chimney damage. UGH.
| 161 |
Truck Monkey Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:11:33pm |
re: #144 NonNativeTexan
True story. My sons found a old box of 8-tracks. They asked,
Dad are these Nintendo cartridges? Sad, my sons did not
know what 8 tracks were , I felt defeated as a father.
I use to think that KA-CHUNK at the end of the songs was actually part of the music.
| 162 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:11:42pm |
re: #115 NonNativeTexan
Man, forgot how good brass and rock and roll go together..
Don't forget Blood Sweat and Tears.
CTA...I'm A Man
| 164 |
rightymouse Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:12:16pm |
re: #117 Nevergiveup
Nazi Germany circa 1938
Ditto England...with Oswald Mosley and his fascist ilk.
Europeans have a lot of growing up to do. They keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.
And one would think that the Europeans would have a clue-bat by now.
| 165 |
Noam Sayin' Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:12:42pm |
| 166 |
brookly red Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:12:52pm |
re: #139 A Kiwi Infidel
I did include pathetic, does that help?
well I was thinking from a more angry place... but yes that helps.
| 167 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:12:54pm |
re: #162 jorline
Don't forget Blood Sweat and Tears.
[Video]
ha!...you beat me to 'I'm a Man'....classic dood...Terry Kath was a beast
| 168 |
saberry0530 Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:12:55pm |
re: #164 rightymouse
Ditto England...with Oswald Mosley and his fascist ilk.
Europeans have a lot of growing up to do. They keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.
And one would think that the Europeans would have a clue-bat by now.
Need to send them a clue X 4
| 169 |
Zimriel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:13:29pm |
re: #130 Dark_Falcon
I am student of WWII so I know all about the vision he has for the world. I hate that vision because I've seen where it leads: It leads to the murder of millions, all because they were Jews.
If not for that, then at least because it leads to the murder of lots of Germans. Millions were ground up in Hitler's pointless war machine, millions more kicked out of their homes, and a third the country enslaved; all to feed Hitler's little Wagnerian fantasy.
He'd have done better buying that bunker in 1920 and just playing D&D in it.
| 170 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:13:35pm |
re: #157 Noam Sayin'
I haven't scanned back through the thread, yet, but I'm wondering. Do girl lizards like Steely Dan? All my female friends hate them.
I like Steely Dan.
How are you doing, Noam? Good to see you.
| 171 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:13:49pm |
| 172 |
Dar ul Harb Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:13:51pm |
re: #125 Occasional Reader
"Rock & Roll"? You mean that stuff that's all caterwaulin', and where ya cant's tell the boys from the girls? "Devil music", that's what *I* calls it.
They don't give a damn
about any trumpet playing band
It ain't what they call rock and roll
But the Sultans
Yeah the Sultans they play creole
| 173 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:13:55pm |
re: #166 brookly red
well I was thinking from a more angry place... but yes that helps.
Dont be angry, it will just give you heart disease and a stomach ulcer.
| 174 |
Occasional Reader Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:13:59pm |
re: #152 OldLineTexan
"Deep South" has a particular meaning in the US.
I know a girl from Ushuaia.
Now THAT'S "deep south".
| 175 |
gearhead Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:14:01pm |
re: #151 NonNativeTexan
Heh :)
The first music I can remember begging my parents for was an 8-track of Fleetwood Mac's Rumors.
| 176 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:14:24pm |
re: #158 A Kiwi Infidel
Yes I am aware of the term but hadnt made the connection before posting. Hope no offence taken, my apologies if so.
No, heavens no. Just a problem with the proposed system.
| 177 |
Sharmuta Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:14:33pm |
re: #156 iceweasel
Sharmuta-- Is this related to the constrained/unconstrained idea I've seen you and others mention? I haven't read this and am not familiar with the terms, but I would fully endorse the idea that the political spectrum can't be adequately described in terms of binaries -- or even in a linear model.
It is about the constrained and unconstrained visions I and others mention at times. There are grades of each vision, and hybrids of them as well, such as fascism and communism. But there are those of the constrained vision on both the left and the right, and unconstrained can be found on the left and right as well. But I now no longer see "left" and "right". I see the constrained vision and non-constrained visions- fascists, commies and socialists (for lack of better terms).
| 178 |
Bloodnok Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:14:54pm |
re: #138 Dark_Falcon
I'll look into that book. It might be worth a read.
I have started it. It is the kind of book where you need to re-read the parts you've just read to get the full flavor of it. It is difficult at first because you keep trying to ascribe the concepts to the left and the right like you are used to. I haven't broken that habit while reading it yet, but I trust I soon will.
| 179 |
Noam Sayin' Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:14:58pm |
re: #170 Pvt Bin Jammin
I'm good, Bin. Good to see you, too. Chatted with Sage a couple weeks back. Says he might pop in some time to say hello.
| 180 |
Occasional Reader Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:15:37pm |
| 181 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:15:41pm |
re: #174 Occasional Reader
I know a girl from Ushuaia.
Now THAT'S "deep south".
Once again, just give us the short list ... countries whose females you have not dated.
/
| 182 |
rightymouse Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:15:47pm |
re: #136 A Kiwi Infidel
I was pondering that statement and thought perhaps we need to expand the plain from lateral to third dimensional, include a North and South. I am sure von brunn would fit into a "deep south right" description.
It's not historically nor intellectually a good thing to pigeon-hole a person ideologically when they are clearly off the deep end mentally.
| 184 |
brookly red Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:16:38pm |
re: #173 A Kiwi Infidel
Dont be angry, it will just give you heart disease and a stomach ulcer.
Nawww, hate does that, anger is much more positive :)
| 185 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:17:23pm |
re: #179 Noam Sayin'
I'm good, Bin. Good to see you, too. Chatted with Sage a couple weeks back. Says he might pop in some time to say hello.
Cool! I will probably see him tomorrow night. Hope he stops in here too. He posted real late one night a couple of weeks ago but he said he didn't really know the lizards who were online at the time.
| 186 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:17:41pm |
re: #182 rightymouse
It's not historically nor intellectually a good thing to pigeon-hole a person ideologically when they are clearly off the deep end mentally.
agreed....intellectual artistry that resolves nothing, a waste of time, cutting into the boogie woogie
| 187 |
Noam Sayin' Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:19:10pm |
re: #171 NonNativeTexan
Having a hard time getting cheap ammo for mine.
If it's even available. Almost nothing around the Twin Cities for target rounds, and the protection stuff is through the roof.
But I've been wanting a .357 ever since I gave up my old S&W years back. They're a little out of my price range, so I decided to go with a Ruger GP100. But I couldn't find one in stainless. Then I'm at the gun store to see if maybe they'd gotten one in, and the sales guy says, "All we have is a used S&W." Ten bucks cheaper than what I would have paid for the Ruger, and it's stainless. So I'm back to my original desire.
Stainless guns make Noam a happy boy.
| 188 |
MacDuff Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:19:12pm |
re: #131 rightymouse
I love Steely Dan. Brings back good memories. :)
Meanwhile, thought those of you who cared would want to know that my autistic son made Honor Roll again in his private school. 4th Quarter.
On the grading system at his school, 80% is considered a C+. They are tough.
That's wonderful! You must be very proud of him as are all of us. Kudos!
| 189 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:20:02pm |
re: #172 Dar ul Harb
They don't give a damn
about any trumpet playing band
It ain't what they call rock and roll
But the Sultans
Yeah the Sultans they play creole
Sharif don't like it,
Rock the Casbah
| 190 |
Capitalistincharge Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:20:12pm |
Since everyone, from the MSM to bloggers, seems to think we need to associate VonBrunn with a political identity, perhaps we should see if he is registered to vote and what affiliation heclaims. I don't know how to do this. Can someone here guide me?
| 191 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:20:26pm |
Good evening.
the market had a sell off at the last minute today, but still ended up in positive territory.
Dow Closes Higher on Day but Still Down for Year
Wall Street’s jitters about waning demand for government debt eased a bit on Thursday.
An auction for $11 billion in 30-year Treasury bonds went better than many analysts had expected, drawing strong response from buyers attracted by recent increases in interest rates. That sent stocks sharply higher, and the Dow Jones industrial average crossed briefly into positive territory for the year before retreating near the close of trading.
The Dow gained 31.90 points, or 0.37 percent, to end at 8,770.92, less than six points from its high for the year. The Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index, which is up about 5 percent since Jan. 1, rose 5.74 points, or 0.61 percent, to 944.89. The Nasdaq was up 9.29 points, or 0.5 percent, at 1,862.37.
I'm looking for a bit of a sell off as professional investors will be trying to lock in some (meager) profits.
| 192 |
rightymouse Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:20:29pm |
re: #168 saberry0530
Need to send them a clue X 4
They don't get 'it' likely because other countries (i.e. the U.S.) have bailed their butts out of destruction.
They have a welfare mentality?
| 193 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:21:19pm |
re: #169 Zimriel
If not for that, then at least because it leads to the murder of lots of Germans. Millions were ground up in Hitler's pointless war machine, millions more kicked out of their homes, and a third the country enslaved; all to feed Hitler's little Wagnerian fantasy.
He'd have done better buying that bunker in 1920 and just playing D&D in it.
Agreed.
| 194 |
alegrias Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:21:49pm |
Thank you for this video clip Charles! I'd never seen Steely Dan in person, and also had the song's title wrong in my mind, back in the day, despite owning the Long Play record! Sweet Charlemagne.
| 196 |
jorline Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:22:19pm |
re: #126 jim in virginia
Can we send you some of our rain? We had 13 inches in Aprl, same in May, 4 so far in June.
Pleassssssssseeeeeeeeeeee
| 197 |
Capitalistincharge Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:22:23pm |
Hi 3 wood! Just the guy I wanted to see. Question: If T bill rates go to 5% will it be time to get serious about economic collapse?
| 198 |
rightymouse Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:23:05pm |
re: #186 albusteve
agreed....intellectual artistry that resolves nothing, a waste of time, cutting into the boogie woogie
I've said it here before about people who are mentally ill. Trying to pigeon-hole them politically is silly.
| 200 |
Occasional Reader Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:24:41pm |
re: #181 OldLineTexan
Once again, just give us the short list ... countries whose females you have not dated.
/
There was a girl from Ushuaia
whose virtue, a guy thought to try-ah
She said to O.R.,
"get out of my car,
before you, I'd quite rather die-ah!"
| 201 |
NonNativeTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:24:44pm |
re: #187 Noam Sayin'
Sweet. Use and abuse stainless, keeps right on shootin..
| 202 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:24:44pm |
| 203 |
rightymouse Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:25:01pm |
re: #188 MacDuff
That's wonderful! You must be very proud of him as are all of us. Kudos!
Thanky!
The best part is that he is proud of his own accomplishments. :)
| 204 |
albusteve Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:25:40pm |
re: #198 rightymouse
I've said it here before about people who are mentally ill. Trying to pigeon-hole them politically is silly.
people like the sound of their analytical words...that's cool, but it's a waste of time and maybe even does no good in the long run....
Who are You?....explain yourself!
| 205 |
1SG(ret) Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:25:49pm |
re: #191 3 wood
Doesn't that profit thingy have to go through the csar first. Wouldn't that be considered pay?
| 206 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:26:11pm |
re: #177 Sharmuta
I will definitely have to read it. I don't yet know anything about this, but it's been clear to me for a long time that 'left' and 'right' don't work as categories or descriptions. I look forward to talking with you about it!
Have other lizards seen or taken this test?
[Link: www.politicalcompass.org...]
From their intro about it:
On the standard left-right scale, how do you distinguish leftists like Stalin and Gandhi? It's not sufficient to say that Stalin was simply more left than Gandhi. There are fundamental political differences between them that the old categories on their own can't explain. Similarly, we generally describe social reactionaries as 'right-wingers', yet that leaves left-wing reactionaries like Robert Mugabe and Pol Pot off the hook.
That's about as much as we should tell you for now. After you've responded to the following propositions during the next 3-5 minutes, all will be explained. In each instance, you're asked to choose the response that best describes your feeling: Strongly Disagree, Disagree, Agree or Strongly Agree. At the end of the test, you'll be given the compass, with your own special position on it.
There is also an explanation of the political compass and the lines they've chosen to plot responses on, but it's not recommended that one read that til after taking the test.
It's here: [Link: www.politicalcompass.org...]
Anyway, I think people who are interested in the Two Visions stuff might find this interesting.
| 207 |
rightymouse Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:28:40pm |
re: #204 albusteve
people like the sound of their analytical words...that's cool, but it's a waste of time and maybe even does no good in the long run....
Who are You?....explain yourself!
Explain what?
| 208 |
mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:31:53pm |
Is there gas in the car?
Yes theres gas in the caaarrr.
Great song and one of the great bands ever, whichever lineup you pick.
| 209 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:31:59pm |
Obama now has 21 Czars who are accountable to no one but him. I don;t know about anybody else, but that worries me.
This evening in the Kudlow Report they were discussing how quite a few of these folks have given large contributions to Obama, and that this is the Chicago Pay to Play scheme gone federal.
Just something to keep your eye on.
| 210 |
Roentgen Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:32:59pm |
Steely Dan is touring and will be here next week. We got some tickets. I think the fact that they're touring means that they left their money in the stock market too long, as did I.
| 211 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:34:52pm |
re: #197 Capitalistincharge
Hi 3 wood! Just the guy I wanted to see. Question: If T bill rates go to 5% will it be time to get serious about economic collapse?
I don't think the economy will "collapse" per se, but you will have very high inflation and everything that goes with that.
Which would be acceptable if unemployment was low, but I don't think employment will appreciably improve any time soon. The destruction of jobs is slowing down a bit is the best you can say now.
The 10 year treasury closed at about 3.86% or so today.
| 213 |
FrogMarch Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:35:11pm |
| 214 |
mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:36:09pm |
re: #210 Roentgen
Steely Dan is touring and will be here next week. We got some tickets.
Lucky! (Bet they open up with Green Earrings.)
| 215 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:36:09pm |
re: #205 1SG(ret)
Doesn't that profit thingy have to go through the csar first. Wouldn't that be considered pay?
It's OK when Obama pockets the dough.
| 217 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:41:10pm |
By the way, last night O'Reilly went off on his conspiracy stuff again about rising gas prices.
Uh, Bill?
When the dollar depreciates in value, the cost of goods as denominated in dollars goes up, mmkay? And the dollar has been depreciating cause of the Fed, treasury and White House actions of late
Stop trying to scare people. Both you and I know you are full of crap, but some there are gullible folks out there might actually believe you.
| 219 |
mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:42:02pm |
re: #211 3 wood
Its like trying to start an old car. You try first by spraying some starter fluid in the carb, but then you end up flooding it, and then battery starts getting too low to crank. You might be able to push start it, but you're parked in a low spot. Frak!
| 220 |
Wendya Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:44:47pm |
re: #90 Killgore Trout
The talking point won't work but that's not going to stop people from embarrassing themselves trying. He wasn't a conservative but he was far right wing extremist. For example : The libertarian extremists and Paulians hate neoconservatives and Israel but they are still right wing. Same goes for the Paleoconservatives and fascists.
If you look at the typical American left/right spectrum that we were all taught and apply logic, it fails miserably. Political censorship and a rejection of free market economics are not aspects of conservative principles. If you were to break it down the way politics actually work in this country, you'd have more government control and less freedom on one end, less government control and more freedom on the other. Fascism and Nazism would be poles apart from the conservative movement. Likewise, anarchism would not be found next to liberalism, but be on the far right side of the line.
| 221 |
mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:44:50pm |
re: #217 3 wood
By the way, last night O'Reilly went off on his conspiracy stuff again about rising gas prices.
Stop trying to scare people. Both you and I know you are full of crap, but some there are gullible folks out there might actually believe you.
There are lots of fools who think some secret cabal is controlling the price of oil. Its a litmus test for ignorance of how the market works.
| 222 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:45:15pm |
re: #195 Iron Fist
Fascism, by the way, is not Nazism. The two have been conflated in popular culture, and there are points of symmetry, but they aren't the same. Most of the most invidious parts of Nazi Ideology were not (explicitly at any rate) part of Italian Fascism. If Mussolini had been a bit brighter he could have done like Franco and sat the war out. A lot of history would have been different, then.
IF -- I couldn't agree more with you about Fascism not being identical with Nazism.
However, it's wrong to conflate Clinton with Mussolini--just as it is wrong to conflate Bush with Hitler.
Here is probably the essential fascist statement -- Mussolini's famous reply to those who wanted policy specifics from him: "The democrats of Il Mondo want to know our program? It is to break the bones of the democrats of Il Mondo. And the sooner the better."
This is more or less the epitome of an illiberal and undemocratic statement.
I've got my own issues with the Clinton admin and with Clinton as a person, and altho I'm lefty/progressive I have no interest in taking away anyone's guns. I'm all for people having them, even if I don't happen to own one. You mention this statement:
Clinton said that individual rights were all well and good, but when the "rights of the individual conflict with the necessities of the many, the needs of the many must carry the day".
I can't dismiss that outright as being indicative of some kind of fascism or statism, simply because this is what all forms of government are: some kind of social contract that individuals engage in, in which some individual rights are *always* given up in order to enter into that social contract. I'm making a kind of abstract point and not making it particularly well at the moment.
Anyway, without context I just can't see that one Clinton statement as being outrageous-- as opposed to expressing a small truism about the preconditions for any kind of government.
| 223 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:47:19pm |
So how is the Obama stimulus plan working so far?
Initial jobless claims fall; ongoing claims set record
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- While first-time claims for state unemployment benefits have declined or been flat over the most recent four weeks of data, ongoing claims have continued to reach fresh weekly highs, the Labor Department reported Thursday.The number of initial claims fell 24,000 to 601,000 in the week ended June 6. Economists polled by MarketWatch had expected an initial claims level of 620,000. See Economic Calendar. In the week ended May 30, continuing claims for benefits reached a new record high, rising 59,000 to 6.82 million from an upwardly revised level in the prior week.
The report is a "mixed bag," showing that the labor market isn't hiring, even though firing may have slowed, wrote Ian Pollick, economics strategist with TD Securities, in a research note.
"On balance, the decline in initial claims is supportive of the argument that job destruction is beginning to slow within the U.S. labor market," Pollick wrote. "On the flip side though, the gallop in continuing claims as well as the increase in the four-week moving average for the continuing claims component suggests that the duration of unemployment continues to hover at record lengths, as the pace of job creation has come to a virtual stand-still."
These are actual real numbers, not the made up fantasy that Obama has been giving to his worshipers in the White House press corps.
| 224 |
Unakite Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:49:19pm |
Wish I'd seen this sooner, but all I can do is reiterate #1 Macker:
Steely Dan Kicks ASS!
Got to see them once many moons ago...
| 225 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:50:22pm |
re: #221 mich-again
There are lots of fools who think some secret cabal is controlling the price of oil. Its a litmus test for ignorance of how the market works.
Spot on.
You know, last year when O'Reilly was spinning this fairy tale, there were more short sell positions on oil then long positions. One simple phone call would have told him that, it's not that hard to find out.
The fact that O'Reilly still persisted in spreading that crap tells me he intentionally misleads the public, at least where economics is concerned.
| 226 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:51:40pm |
When I was in college I played in a blues/rock band that was heavily influenced by the Allman Brothers and Grateful Dead, with lots of other influences mixed in.
When we had local gigs we would post flyers all over campus that said something like, "Original music and covers of The Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix, Allman Brothers, Janis Joplin, Eric Clapton and The Technicolor Motorhomes!"
I never knew what The Technicolor Motorhomes meant until I got into Steely Dan and heard this song.
Later on, I used to cover "Pretzel Logic" in an acoustic blues duo.
| 227 |
Capitalistincharge Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:52:55pm |
Ok, 3 wood, another thing you can splain to me....If the dollar continues to deflate, and the fed doesn't raise interest rates...what happens then?
G-d, I wish I'd gone to Econ class sober!
| 228 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:57:29pm |
Oh, this is rich:
CNN’s Sister Channel Gives a ‘View’ Host Her Own Show
Joy Behar, a longtime co-host of “The View,” is joining HLN to present a 9 p.m. talk show.HLN, the opinionated sister channel of CNN, hopes to raise its prime-time ratings with the addition of Ms. Behar, who is well known for her comedic and sometimes controversial sensibility. The network, a unit of Turner Broadcasting, is expected to announce the hiring on Thursday.
Ms. Behar will work a TV double shift, as she will continue to co-host “The View” on ABC in the mornings. In a brief telephone interview, Ms. Behar said the new 9 p.m. show, tentatively titled “The Joy Behar Show,” will begin in the fall, most
likely in September. She called it a “topical and fun” talk show.
Let me guess....it will be a left wing attack show.
Here is the money quote:
“It’s not going to be dry, I hope, because I’m crazy,” she said.
Another loser.
| 229 |
mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:58:51pm |
re: #225 3 wood
The fact that O'Reilly still persisted in spreading that crap tells me he intentionally misleads the public, at least where economics is concerned.
His "No-Spin Zone" slogan is akin to "I'm Telling the Truth" and there's something creepy about people who like to remind you how honest they are.
| 230 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jun 11, 2009 7:59:35pm |
re: #228 3 wood
Oh, this is rich:
CNN’s Sister Channel Gives a ‘View’ Host Her Own Show
Another loser.
Glen Beck is also crazy, but I bet he gets triple her ratings. Left wing cable attack shows = FAIL.
| 231 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:00:26pm |
re: #227 Capitalistincharge
Ok, 3 wood, another thing you can splain to me....If the dollar continues to deflate, and the fed doesn't raise interest rates...what happens then?
G-d, I wish I'd gone to Econ class sober!
Interest rates will go up anyway. The Fed is not raising rates now but they are going up. The Fed does not set rates per se, they just set the discount rate for borrowing money from them by member banks at the discount window.
We all have to bear in mind that there is now an absolutely mind numbing debt to finance, and the only way to attract that much capital, especially when you have a government that is turning into pirates that will take assets from bond holders and transfer it to their union buddies, is by a very high rate of interest.
| 232 |
3 wood Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:01:59pm |
re: #227 Capitalistincharge
G-d, I wish I'd gone to Econ class sober!
It's OK, none of my students do either.
| 233 |
razorbacker Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:04:02pm |
re: #227 Capitalistincharge
Ok, 3 wood, another thing you can splain to me....If the dollar continues to deflate, and the fed doesn't raise interest rates...what happens then?
G-d, I wish I'd gone to Econ class sober!
Dollar deflates and interest rates don't rise? Nobody buys T-bills. Nobody buys T-bills? Then the government has to pay for itself with taxes.
Good luck with that.
| 234 |
Unakite Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:05:10pm |
re: #227 Capitalistincharge
Ok, 3 wood, another thing you can splain to me....If the dollar continues to deflate, and the fed doesn't raise interest rates...what happens then?
G-d, I wish I'd gone to Econ class sober!
G-d, I wish I'd gone to an Econ class sober!
| 235 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:06:37pm |
re: #229 mich-again
His "No-Spin Zone" slogan is akin to "I'm Telling the Truth" and there's something creepy about people who like to remind you how honest they are.
Yeah, I can't help being reminded of someone who satirised it by creating an "All-Spin Zone". Maybe Colbert?
It is kind of the car alarm of discourse. If someone feels the need to reassure you that they're not lying, it's the equivalent of an alarm going off saying "Warning. Door may not be completely shut."
| 236 |
Capitalistincharge Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:08:10pm |
re: #232 3 wood
You are allowed to use this quote on your students if it will help....
"Thirty years from now, after you've built a business and a hefty retirement account, and a Marxist is in the White House, you are going to wish to hell you had your first drink of day thirty minutes after class..."
Capitalistincharge
| 237 |
Mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:08:39pm |
| 238 |
Robert Schwartz Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:08:40pm |
Charles: Have you ever played with Becker and Fagin?
| 239 |
Wendya Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:10:32pm |
re: #223 3 wood
So how is the Obama stimulus plan working so far?
Initial jobless claims fall; ongoing claims set record
These are actual real numbers, not the made up fantasy that Obama has been giving to his worshipers in the White House press corps.
I can tell those clowns why the jobless rate will only increase. Taking money from the private sector hurts American business.
| 240 |
razorbacker Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:13:08pm |
re: #239 Wendya
I can tell those clowns why the jobless rate will only increase. Taking money from the private sector hurts American business.
That's a feature, not a bug.
Businesses exist to provide taxes for government to spend.
Get with the program, whydon'tcha?
| 241 |
Wendya Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:17:16pm |
re: #240 razorbacker
That's a feature, not a bug.
Businesses exist to provide taxes for government to spend.
Get with the program, whydon'tcha?
This business won't have any money for the government to take unless money flows in the private sector. I had an employee once who thought it was a good thing to "tax the rich". I asked him how long he thought he'd have a job if the "rich" stopped purchasing our services. The idiot still didn't get it.
| 243 |
Capitalistincharge Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:20:16pm |
re: #240 razorbacker
Businesses have to be a willing participant.
| 244 |
Wendya Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:22:05pm |
re: #243 Capitalistincharge
Businesses have to be a willing participant.
Kind of like how citizens "voluntarily" pay taxes?
| 246 |
Capitalistincharge Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:24:23pm |
re: #244 Wendya
No, more like when Businesses get taxed to the point of not being able to keep the business going they find ways to not pay all of those taxes.
| 247 |
razorbacker Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:25:28pm |
re: #243 Capitalistincharge
Businesses have to be a willing participant.
Really? How do you arrive at that idea?
Try and not pay your taxes.
You're not a Czar of anything.
You'll be fined, perhaps imprisoned.
If you don't want to be a participant you'd better deal strictly in cash; no checks, no credit cards, no debit cards. Don't open a bank account. Don't purchase anything costing over X amount of dollars. Don't live in a nice house.
I guess it can be done. I'd not like to try it.
| 248 |
capitalist piglet Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:27:03pm |
re: #2 Gus 802
Is there gas in the car?
I think the people down the hall know who we are.
(This is SUCH a treat...I've seen them four times, and I'd go again in a HEARTBEAT. I have this DVD too - it's very cool!)
| 249 |
razorbacker Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:29:31pm |
re: #245 Iron Fist
It's not about revenue, it is about spreading the wealth. I wish Obama would spread me some of his millions.
No. You mistake the intention. It is about consolidation of power. Think, man, any damn fool can get rich. But power...that's the thing. With power the rich come to you and beg you to take their money. All they ask is just a little bit of that power to come their way.
| 250 |
capitalist piglet Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:31:01pm |
re: #157 Noam Sayin'
I haven't scanned back through the thread, yet, but I'm wondering. Do girl lizards like Steely Dan? All my female friends hate them.
I am a major Dan fan. Major, major, major...but I'm a musician, so I'm probably not like other females you know.
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| 251 |
Mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:51:16pm |
re: #250 capitalist piglet
Nice. They end the tour here in the D. Have to check into that.
| 252 |
Mich-again Thu, Jun 11, 2009 8:53:43pm |
re: #250 capitalist piglet
I wish they did a Kamakiriad (plus) concert. I think out of them all its my favorite Fagan album. Technically not Steely Dan though. From start to end it has such a sweet groove.
| 253 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Thu, Jun 11, 2009 9:06:17pm |
Steely Dan will be performing at the Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre here in Orlando on Monday night...got my ticket in hand...ready to go. It'll be my third time seeing them live, and I could do it a lot more.
| 254 |
BARACK THE VOTE Thu, Jun 11, 2009 9:08:06pm |
re: #242 Iron Fist
What's interesting to me here is that I don't take issue with what you're saying. That is, I'll take your word for it that Clinton tried to institute warrantless searches of Chicago housing projects for guns-- (I don't know, as this was just slightly before my time and before I was paying much attention to politics). Yet it doesn't surprise me one bit that such a measure would have been thrown out, and moreover, it should have been thrown out -- just as warrantless searches for anything ought (in my opinion) to be impossible. You say
They were unconstitutional on the face of them, it doesn't really matter if they were looking for guns or gumdrops
and that's my feeling also, whether it would be for guns in a housing project in Chicago or drugs in posh mansions in Beverly Hills, or sex toys in private homes in Texas. (TX or some town there did ban them for a while, right?)
I'd also agree with you that Waco was a colossal fuckup. I don't believe they intended for people to die, but there can be no doubt that it was a complete clusterfuck and debacle.
Nonetheless I'm going to dig in on the original point you made and reiterate that this doesn't make Clinton Mussolini, any more than Bush was Hitler.
| 255 |
sngnsgt Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:44:53pm |
Dammit! One song and now I've almost listened to 30 minutes of Steely Dan. When I was younger and dumber, (not that I'm much more un-dumber) my Father made me go see Steely Dan. It took me a few years after to finally get Steely Dan. Now, I can't listen to enough of it.
| 256 |
capitalist piglet Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:52:51pm |
re: #252 Mich-again
I wish they did a Kamakiriad (plus) concert. I think out of them all its my favorite Fagan album. Technically not Steely Dan though. From start to end it has such a sweet groove.
Do you have Morph The Cat? I love that album! (I like Kamakiriad, too.)
| 257 |
capitalist piglet Thu, Jun 11, 2009 10:57:02pm |
re: #255 sngnsgt
Dammit! One song and now I've almost listened to 30 minutes of Steely Dan. When I was younger and dumber, (not that I'm much more un-dumber) my Father made me go see Steely Dan. It took me a few years after to finally get Steely Dan. Now, I can't listen to enough of it.
Aja was popular when I was a teenager - that's what got me hooked. Talk about a timeless album...that thing never gets old.
| 260 |
Nadnerb Fri, Jun 12, 2009 2:44:42am |
Steely Dan. I like this song. Reminds me of a road trip...
I drove from Phoenix to Las Vegas on AZ HWY 93 in an elderly Jaguar XJ6 which belonged to my parents. It was once grandma's car, and I was entrusted to keep it well. I had the car because my Ford pickup was totaled on Scottsdale Rd. by an inattentive driver in s Chevy K5 Blazer. I listened to the radio for an hour or two as I drove northwest, then lost radio reception as I neared Wickenburg. Inside the center console were a few tapes, one of which was Steely Dan. I don't remember which album the tape was, but I remember 'Kid Charlemagne". Of course the AC was broken, so I had the windows and roof open, and I enjoyed the hell out of that drive.
| 261 |
mojo9 Fri, Jun 12, 2009 12:54:11pm |
got all their albums (vinyl!). some on tape. "my old school" holds a special place in my heart. college years were not kind to me.
| 262 |
mojo9 Fri, Jun 12, 2009 12:59:13pm |
re: #260 Nadnerb
"can't buy a thrill" i believe is the album. "don't take me alive" is a good one on that.
| 263 |
Arby Dwiar Fri, Jun 12, 2009 7:00:13pm |
Late to the party as usual...hope someone can help me with my question!
Unbelievable musical excellence, transcending many of my formidable years...!
OK - I've read this entire thread - and I have a very dumb question to ask -
While I realize that Donald and Walter would often gather exceptional musicians to coalesce in the studio and record amazing musical masterpieces, why didn't Walter Becker play the guitar solo? Wasn't that he, in the video, next to the soloist?
Signed, Totally Confused,
A. D.
| 264 |
capitalist piglet Fri, Jun 12, 2009 7:31:05pm |
re: #263 Arby Dwiar
Late to the party as usual...hope someone can help me with my question!
Unbelievable musical excellence, transcending many of my formidable years...!
OK - I've read this entire thread - and I have a very dumb question to ask -
While I realize that Donald and Walter would often gather exceptional musicians to coalesce in the studio and record amazing musical masterpieces, why didn't Walter Becker play the guitar solo? Wasn't that he, in the video, next to the soloist?
Signed, Totally Confused,
A. D.
Walter Becker plays solos on lots of stuff, but I can't imagine being on stage with Jon Herrington and not having him play solos, too...you know?
| 265 |
Arby Dwiar Fri, Jun 12, 2009 9:40:45pm |
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