Massive Protests in Iran

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You say you want a revolution — well, it may be happening in Iran, as civil unrest seems to be spreading. And from the look of this video, it isn’t just a few people.

Youtube Video

But the mullahs and their hardline supporters still have the guns, and a major crackdown could be on the way: Report: Shots fired at pro-Mousavi rally in Tehran.

Iranian state television said shots were fired during a mass rally in support of defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi in Tehran on Monday and that people were running away.

“There has been sporadic shooting out there … I can see people running here,” a reporter of Iran’s English-language Press TV said in a live call from Tehran’s Azadi Square.

“A number of people who are armed, I don’t know exactly who they are, but they have started to fire on people causing havoc in Azadi Square,” he said.

Many tens of thousands of people had gathered in the square and a nearby thoroughfare to show support for Mousavi’s call for the election to be cancelled.

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499 comments
1 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:53:11am

Well folks, here we go….

2 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:53:15am

Well with no Yankee game on today, at least I may have something to watch?

3 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:53:23am

And our administration has lost it’s ability to speak. This will be remembered.

4 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:53:54am

re: #3 Walter L. Newton

And our administration has lost it’s ability to speak. This will be remembered.

Well in this case it may be better to stay silent than to say something stupid.

5 sadhu  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:54:04am

those are huge crowds

6 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:54:08am

Let us hope that this is the anti-1979 revolution. I’d love to see the mullahs get their just deserts.

7 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:54:34am

AP is reporting at least one killed in gunfire:

An Associated Press photographer saw one person shot dead and several others who appeared to be seriously wounded in Tehran’s Azadi Square. The shooting came from a compound for volunteer militia linked to Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard.

“There has been sporadic shooting out there … I can see people running here,” added a reporter of Iran’s English-language Press TV.
Story continues below ↓advertisement %P% your ad here

More than 100,000 Mousavi backers had defied an Interior Ministry ban to cheer their leader in his first public appearance since elections he claims were marred by fraud. The government says President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won re-election with 63 percent of the vote.

There have been reports all weekend of deaths - ranging from 50-100, and hundreds wounded, but firing on the active demonstrations during the day shows that Ahmadinejad’s thugs are more than willing to take the fight to a new more dangerous level.

8 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:54:51am

For those who pray, this might be a good time.

9 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:54:59am

Must be time to push thru the Iranian stimulus package. Wouldn’t want a crisis to go to waste.
/

10 SlartyBartfast  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:55:05am

re: Honorary Yooper

From your mouth to God’s ears…and I don’t mean Allah’s.

11 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:55:10am

re: #7 lawhawk

AP is reporting at least one killed in gunfire:

There have been reports all weekend of deaths - ranging from 50-100, and hundreds wounded, but firing on the active demonstrations during the day shows that Ahmadinejad’s thugs are more than willing to take the fight to a new more dangerous level.

Are they his thugs or the Mullah’s thugs?

12 Eagle  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:03am

Can anyone translate?

13 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:15am
14 Desert Dog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:16am

re: #3 Walter L. Newton

And our administration has lost it’s ability to speak. This will be remembered.

He’s waiting for the latest focus group and polling data before he does anything. He will not get another chance to stir things up like this again. My bet is he will not say a thing or very little, which will prop up the mullahs.

15 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:21am

re: #11 Nevergiveup

Are they his thugs or the Mullah’s thugs?

Is there a difference. DJs their chosen mouthpiece.

16 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:21am

“Support Pres. Obama to do the right thing” says William Kristol at the Weekly Standard blog today. (great article encouraging Obama to encourage Iran’s people, not their police state overlords.)

Pres. Obama apparently cannot be bothered to interrupt his hostile takeover/community organizing of doctors & our healthcare, than encourage the toppling of our Terrorist Enemy #1 by freedom fighters.

17 HAL2010  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:24am

I have followed this for the last two days, and it just seems to be growing.
This could really be the one.

New developments all the time.

Andrew Sullivan has covered Iran really well for the last few days, I would recommend you go to his website.

18 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:30am

re: #6 Honorary Yooper

Let us hope that this is the anti-1979 revolution. I’d love to see the mullahs get their just deserts.

It’s probably a combination of anti-Islamists and anti-Ahmadinejad, though there’s no easy way to separate the two. Mousavi wasn’t exactly going to overturn the Islamic government, but wants his part in it. His display of restraint is as much for preserving the regime sans Ahmadinejad as it is out of trying to prevent further bloodshed.

Ahmadinejad’s thugs aren’t going to play that game.

There will be blood.

19 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:48am

re: #11 Nevergiveup

Reports are that it was the mullah’s thugs firing on the crowd.

20 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:56:55am

The revolution will be twittered:


# RUMOR: Fake assassination attempt on AhmadiN planned for tomorrow to divert attention from election fraud (via @lotfan) #iranelectionabout 2 hours ago from web

That would be the excuse the gov’t needs to crack down hard. We could see a military coup lead by the IIRG & Basiji.

21 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:57:03am

re: #3 Walter L. Newton

And our administration has lost it’s ability to speak. This will be remembered.

Should the outcome be good, Øbama will be right there to accept credit.

22 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:57:35am

Looks like some are calling it the twitter revolution.

Here’s hoping for no more bloodshed and a successfull/peaceful revolution!

23 Orangutan  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:57:42am

….I have been in the camp wondering what sort of landslide election this really was….Iran has seen so much diversification of interest from its youth, and yet the election results seemed to point to a movement to the right. I suppose we’ll see how much of Iran is like Cook County over time.

24 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:57:56am

re: #17 HAL2010

Sullivan has indeed had good coverage, but it’s greatly diminished when he throws out firebombs like trying to claim Ahmadinejad is using Rovian tactics.

Last time I checked, Rove didn’t call for murdering protesters, mass arrests, and intimidation of opposition groups into silence. That’s what Ahmadinejad is busy doing.

25 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:58:10am

twitter.com

AP photographer: 1 dead, several others seriously injured after gunmen open fire from compound linked to Rev-Gaurd

26 dhg4  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:58:28am

Martin Peretz:

The fact is that, if Sa’ad Hariri’s partial victory in Lebanon was also a partial victory for Barack Obama’s tenets at Cairo, the triumph of the mullahs in Persia is an utter rejection of the president’s words, his tone and his very message to the Muslim world. I suppose that’s too bad. But it does clarify something, doesn’t it? And please don’t tell me that there was no relationship between the balloting and the speech. Had Moussavi won the tally the press would have credited the Cairo inspirational with the results.

Has he stopped drinking the Kool Aid?

27 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:58:29am

re: #6 Honorary Yooper

Let us hope that this is the anti-1979 revolution. I’d love to see the mullahs get their just deserts.

As would many, many Iranians I’m sure. If some way, somehow, the mullahs could be booted out and be replaced by a civilized government soon, it would be a godsend for the Iranian people, and for every other person in the region and in the world who doesn’t want to live under the threat of a terrorist state with nuclear weapons.

28 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:58:39am

re: #12 Eagle

Can anyone translate?

I thought I heard ” ho ho ho Chi MinH” but it may just be a flash back?

29 Baier  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:58:39am

/Who would have thought one speech in Cairo…he is a magical man

30 jill e  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:58:42am

Michael Totten:

Meanwhile, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is sounding like Baghdad Bob again today.
“The situation in the country is in a very good condition. Iran is the most stable country in the world, and there’s the rule of law in this country, and all the people are equal before the law.”

31 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:08am
32 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:13am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Reports are that it was the mullah’s thugs firing on the crowd.

Thanks

33 Desert Dog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:15am

re: #27 Last Mohican

Amen to that brother….instantly better

34 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:22am

As I said on the other thread …

Whatever good happens in iran, if the forces of freedom should prevail, is due in no small part to George W. Bush’s efforts in the region. Don’t doubt for a moment that plenty in iran have seen those purple fingers next door in iraq and noticed that there is a diference between phony freedom and the real thing. And if Obama is a true statesman, he will repeat this publicly and point out that the people of iran deserve the same opportunity as their neighbors in Iraq.

Thanks Dubya … you are a great American!

35 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:22am

re: #17 HAL2010

I have followed this for the last two days, and it just seems to be growing.
This could really be the one.
New developments all the time.
Andrew Sullivan has covered Iran really well for the last few days, I would recommend you go to his website.

It has gotten to big to turn back, hope it is too big to fail.

36 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:36am

re: #24 lawhawk

He’s an idiot but much of his coverage has been good and up to date. Huffpo’s coverage is excellent.

37 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:37am

re: #30 jill e

Youtube Video

38 Desert Dog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:39am

re: #30 jill e

Michael Totten:

Meanwhile, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is sounding like Baghdad Bob again today.
“The situation in the country is in a very good condition. Iran is the most stable country in the world, and there’s the rule of law in this country, and all the people are equal before the law.”

And, remember, not one gay person around either!

39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:59:56am

I am conflicted…Some funny posts are being made about the American response to this, and I want to laugh…I do. But, this is real life drama.

I can’t laugh about this… I admire and support anyone who fights to have their voice heard.

{The Good People of Iran} They know who they are.

40 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:00:09am

re: #3 Walter L. Newton

And our administration has lost it’s ability to speak. This will be remembered.

* * * *
Obama’s firing jewish Dennis Ross from the Iran desk because Iran objects to him.

Obama’s CHOOSING not to speak to those under tyranny, and he’s appeasing their tyrants.

41 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:00:11am

re: #30 jill e

Michael Totten:

Meanwhile, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is sounding like Baghdad Bob again today.
“The situation in the country is in a very good condition. Iran is the most stable country in the world, and there’s the rule of law in this country, and all the people are equal before the law.”

Well, if he’s ousted, he could always apply to be Obama’s press secretary.

42 dhg4  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:00:24am

re: #7 lawhawk

AP is reporting at least one killed in gunfire:


There have been reports all weekend of deaths - ranging from 50-100, and hundreds wounded, but firing on the active demonstrations during the day shows that Ahmadinejad’s thugs are more than willing to take the fight to a new more dangerous level.

Isn’t it time to get the Security Council involved? I’m sorry, you wrote “Iran” not “Israel.” Never mind. There’s no crime worse than “occupation.” Stealing elections doesn’t rank.

43 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:00:27am

re: #30 jill e

Michael Totten:

Meanwhile, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is sounding like Baghdad Bob again today.
“The situation in the country is in a very good condition. Iran is the most stable country in the world, and there’s the rule of law in this country, and all the people are equal before the law.”

Translation: Bullets can penetrate all the people equally.

44 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:00:29am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

The election of Mousavi would form a new government, but not a new regime. The regime will remain essentially unchanged. A relatively moderate mullah in the relatively weak position of President cannot effect any real change. The real constitutional power lies with the Council of Guardians, the senior mullahs. The real power of force is held by the IIRG. Even if he wanted too, Mousavi could not stop the nuke program.

45 MJ  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:00:55am

Looks who is still alive:

In a new video posted on jihadist websites titled “Let’s Continue Our Jihad and Sacrifice,” Adam Gadahn, an American Al-Qaeda member close to the organization’s leadership, addresses the Muslim nation and discusses the Gaza war and its implications. In the video, which was produced by Al-Qaeda’s media division Al-Sahab and was posted on June 13, 2009, Gadahn is shown speaking in Arabic, with English subtitles provided. (Translations in this report are based on the Arabic and vary slightly from the Al-Sahab translation.) Based on the Muslim month listed in the credits, the video appears to have been produced approximately two months ago.

memrijttm.org

46 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:01:43am

re: #7 lawhawk

AP is reporting at least one killed in gunfire:

There have been reports all weekend of deaths - ranging from 50-100, and hundreds wounded, but firing on the active demonstrations during the day shows that Ahmadinejad’s thugs are more than willing to take the fight to a new more dangerous level.

This depends on more than street thuggery, you know. Against real, determined resistance by fed up people, you need actual, organized and disciplined units to contain and extinguish the resistance.

47 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:01:48am

re: #34 _RememberTonyC

As I said on the other thread …

Whatever good happens in iran, if the forces of freedom should prevail, is due in no small part to George W. Bush’s efforts in the region. Don’t doubt for a moment that plenty in iran have seen those purple fingers next door in iraq and noticed that there is a diference between phony freedom and the real thing. And if Obama is a true statesman, he will repeat this publicly and point out that the people of iran deserve the same opportunity as their neighbors in Iraq.

Thanks Dubya … you are a great American!

and as I responded:

The jury’s out on Bush’s legacy. I believe it will be that George Bush began the reformation of the Middle East, a multi-generational plan enacted in October 2001.

48 Arbalest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:02:13am

It looks like the crowd size is increasing, from “real big” to “everyone”.

A supportive statement by the US seems in order, today, maybe tomorrow, as this is not just a few isolated groups.

49 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:02:18am

re: #44 Kenneth

There’s no reason for him to stop the nuke program in any case. It’s what the mullahs want, and he was approved by the mullahs to run in this election in any event.

50 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:02:18am

re: #8 unrealizedviewpoint

For those who pray, this might be a good time.

And who those who do not pray, this would be a good time to start.

51 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:02:34am

twitter from TehranBureau:

Journo from Tehran: 1.5 million people turned up for today’s march. “No one thought it would happen.”
52 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:06am

re: #20 Kenneth

That would be the excuse the gov’t needs to crack down hard. We could see a military coup lead by the IIRG & Basiji.

If that happens, I hope Iran’s gasoline shortage doesn’t affect the public’s response.

/cocktail time … in only one obscure sense

53 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:09am

re: #44 Kenneth

The election of Mousavi would form a new government, but not a new regime. The regime will remain essentially unchanged. A relatively moderate mullah in the relatively weak position of President cannot effect any real change. The real constitutional power lies with the Council of Guardians, the senior mullahs. The real power of force is held by the IIRG. Even if he wanted too, Mousavi could not stop the nuke program.

Maybe not. But a people’s president could encourage further positive revolution if they saw one of their own in a position of some power. And if the mullahs went after the president elected by a majority of the people I would hope the majority wouldn’t just cower away.

54 solomonpanting  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:13am

re: #6 Honorary Yooper

Let us hope that this is the anti-1979 revolution. I’d love to see the mullahs get their just deserts.

Depends, in part, on how many the mullah’s are willing to shoot. I fear very many.

55 MJ  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:21am

re: #49 lawhawk

There’s no reason for him to stop the nuke program in any case. It’s what the mullahs want, and he was approved by the mullahs to run in this election in any event.

Besides that, it’s not as if anyone is going to stop Iran from acquiring them…certainly not the Obama Administration.

56 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:33am

How come the republican’s have to do all the heavy lifting with so much of the credit going to the dems.

57 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:37am

re: #48 Arbalest

It looks like the crowd size is increasing, from “real big” to “everyone”.

A supportive statement by the US seems in order, today, maybe tomorrow, as this is not just a few isolated groups.

Earlier today, from StopAhmadi:
Re-posting these two. These folks are desperately looking for a sign from the US. Will they get it, I wonder?

From StopAhmadi:

One question to USA, why isn’t Obama commenting anything of this? Plz @ me w/ CAPS #IranElection

In any case, I believe USA is being TOO neutral in this case. They need to step up n support ppl #iranelection

58 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:47am

Here’s another Twitter page that’s following the Iranian unrest.

59 Diamond Bullet  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:03:49am

The NY Times and WaPost both have articles up about how actually the hardliners are gaining more power, and how pre-vote polling showed 2-1 support for Ampwehwpheded. What’s really amazing to me is how people are crediting Obama for this somehow. In my mind, given his radio silence and Biden’s apparent statements that they will “press ahead” with working with the regime, Obama’s like a guy who witnesses a traffic accident and just keeps on driving.

60 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:04:02am

Bla bla bla, fiddling while Rome/Tehran burns.

Unbelievably tone deaf (intentionally), Obama’s still talking for nearly an hour to a doctors convention, threatening them with a hostile takeover, instead of addressing MILLIONS OF IRANIANS who need a “shout out”.

61 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:04:14am

re: #47 unrealizedviewpoint

and as I responded:

The jury’s out on Bush’s legacy. I believe it will be that George Bush began the reformation of the Middle East, a multi-generational plan enacted in October 2001.


agree totally

62 Baier  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:04:29am

re: #47 unrealizedviewpoint

and as I responded:

The jury’s out on Bush’s legacy. I believe it will be that George Bush began the reformation of the Middle East, a multi-generational plan enacted in October 2001.

I think your conclusion is correct. I doubt Bush will get much credit for any reforming that happens in the middle east. It’ll probably be from the angle that reform happened despite Bush’s mistakes. Which we all know, aside from mistakes we all can admit to, he got most of it right.

63 jill e  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:04:31am

Will Obama stand with Tehran’s democratic reformers?

A question nobody needed to ask Bush.

64 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:04:31am

re: #30 jill e

Michael Totten:

Meanwhile, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is sounding like Baghdad Bob again today.
“The situation in the country is in a very good condition. Iran is the most stable country in the world, and there’s the rule of law in this country, and all the people are equal before the law.”

and we have no gay people!
/

65 Orangutan  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:04:40am

re: #51 reine.de.tout

Journo from Tehran: 1.5 million people turned up for today’s march. “No one thought it would happen.”

Seems like people who have decided the “other ways” won’t work; been tried before.

66 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:04:57am

re: #4 Nevergiveup

Well in this case it may be better to stay silent than to say something stupid.

That’s my general assessment. If a revolution is brewing, nothing would kill it faster than the perception that Americans (or, worse, “the Jews”) were the ones behind it.

On the other hand, I would like to believe that my government recognized the gravity of the situation, and would know if and when one small, carefully placed helping hand might tip the balance. I would like to believe that was the case, but I know that it is not. Obama doesn’t recognize the threat that Iran poses. He’s willing to allow them to proceed with their nuclear ambitions. Far from trying to fight Iran’s terrorist proxies, he embraces them and confers legitimacy upon them.

The people of Iran and the people of the entire world need a strong, wise American president right now. Instead, we have a witless megalomaniac who will do nothing, whether or not nothing is the right thing to do.

67 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:05:02am

twitter.com

The Basiji police that killed 4 ppl in Tehran got killed by the ppl! eye for an eye!
68 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:05:16am

We want our MTV!

69 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:05:24am

Protest at the Iranian Embassy in London:

snackfeed.com

Meanwhile, MPACUK congratulates President Ahmedinejad

hurryupharry.org

70 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:05:28am

re: #53 CommonCents

Maybe not. But a people’s president could encourage further positive revolution if they saw one of their own in a position of some power. And if the mullahs went after the president elected by a majority of the people I would hope the majority wouldn’t just cower away.

It is all or nothing, if the mullahs stay in power then nothing changes.

71 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:05:48am

just got home, waiting for doc appt. this afternoon. Turned on FNC and the one is going on about socialized medicine! How about a statement on the people of Iran you fuckwad!

72 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:06:00am

re: #58 BlueCanuck

Here’s another Twitter page that’s following the Iranian unrest.

That’s our Winston06 !

73 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:06:13am

re: #62 Baier

I think your conclusion is correct. I doubt Bush will get much credit for any reforming that happens in the middle east. It’ll probably be from the angle that reform happened despite Bush’s mistakes. Which we all know, aside from mistakes we all can admit to, he got most of it right.

Ever talk to a dem about Ronald Reagan? yikes! talk about revision and reverse engineering history.

74 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:06:25am

re: #69 Jimmah

At first I thought that MPACUK statement was sarcastic but they seem serious.

75 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:06:33am

re: #54 solomonpanting

Depends, in part, on how many the mullah’s are willing to shoot. I fear very many.

No disagreement on their willingness. I do wonder what would happen if they had to call in the army, though.

76 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:06:35am

Obama’s talking about “saving & creating” stuff to the business that employed his wife in Chicago, while millions of Iranians could use a pep talk.

Tone deaf like Carter’s 444 days’ wait to denounce the ayatollahs.

77 Baier  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:06:58am

re: #70 brookly red

It is all or nothing, if the mullahs stay in power then nothing changes.

I wonder if Ahmedinejad will be scapegoated just so they can stay in power.

78 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:07:12am

PersianKiwi:
Baseej shooting in Azadi sq - army standing by and watching for now. #Iranelection

StopAhmadi:
The Basiji police that killed 4 ppl in Tehran got killed by the ppl! eye for an eye! #iranelection

IranElection09:
RT @persiankiwi confirmed - it was unprovoked attack by Baseej. People running to hide everywhere in streets around Azadi. #Iranelection

79 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:07:14am

re: #76 alegrias
Except her job was made up, just for her!

80 solomonpanting  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:07:22am

It’s been thirty years since Carter turned his back on the Shah. I wonder if Obama will turn his on the demonstrators.

81 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:07:24am

re: #60 alegrias

Bla bla bla, fiddling while Rome/Tehran burns.

Unbelievably tone deaf (intentionally), Obama’s still talking for nearly an hour to a doctors convention, threatening them with a hostile takeover, instead of addressing MILLIONS OF IRANIANS who need a “shout out”.


Nice to see how he’s going to take from the well off seniors to help provide for those who didn’t prepare for who didn’t prepare for their own retirement. Happy you voted for this schmuck to protect your SS Benefits now.

82 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:07:48am

re: #64 rwdflynavy

and we have no gay people!
/

This is what Dinner Jacket and the Mullahs eat to get rid of them!

83 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:07:55am

re: #57 reine.de.tout

Earlier today, from StopAhmadi:
Re-posting these two. These folks are desperately looking for a sign from the US. Will they get it, I wonder?

From StopAhmadi:

One question to USA, why isn’t Obama commenting anything of this? Plz @ me w/ CAPS #IranElection

In any case, I believe USA is being TOO neutral in this case. They need to step up n support ppl #iranelection

We won’t. Not this administration. Poor Iranians.

84 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:07:56am

re: #73 unrealizedviewpoint

Ever talk to a dem about Ronald Reagan? yikes! talk about revision and reverse engineering history.

Don’t you know Jimmy Carter was responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union?

//

85 jill e  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:06am

Also from Michael Totten:

According to our private phone conversations with people in Tehran, hundreds of parents have gathered by a police station in Yousef Abad, now known as Seyyed Jamal Aldin Asad Abadi, with their hands raised to the sky saying “Obama, please help us, they are killing our young children.”

86 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:07am

Here it comes, Pres. Obama says America must INVEST (save & create) in Prevention!

(while millions of Iranian freedom fighters wait for a shout out)

87 FrogMarch  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:11am

The Mullahs are just like George Bush. shooting dissenters in the streets!

/CBS news

88 solomonpanting  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:20am

re: #75 Dianna

No disagreement on their willingness. I do wonder what would happen if they had to call in the army, though.

Yes. I thought “Who will the army stand with?”

89 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:27am

re: #80 solomonpanting

It’s been thirty years since Carter turned his back on the Shah. I wonder if Obama will turn his on the demonstrators.


It’s not if but when

90 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:33am

re: #76 alegrias Hey alegrias, am I correct that Obama has had nothing to say about the situation in Iran since Saturday?
reine has been getting twitter messages asking “Where is the USA in this; we need help” or somesuch.

91 Spartacus50  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:44am

Obama’s silence on this issue is deafening. Come to think of it, his silence on anything human-rights related is disgraceful

92 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:08:54am

re: #70 brookly red

It is all or nothing, if the mullahs stay in power then nothing changes.

I agree, long term. Right now the mullahs have all the guns. If Mousavi were elected and began to push against the mullahs, that might emboldened the people. My point was it doesn’t have to be an overnight deal, although that would be preferred.

93 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:00am

re: #44 Kenneth

The election of Mousavi would form a new government, but not a new regime. The regime will remain essentially unchanged. A relatively moderate mullah in the relatively weak position of President cannot effect any real change. The real constitutional power lies with the Council of Guardians, the senior mullahs. The real power of force is held by the IIRG. Even if he wanted too, Mousavi could not stop the nuke program.

Which is why the success of the uprising is crucial. It would achieve regime change.

94 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:08am

re: #49 lawhawk

There’s no reason for him to stop the nuke program in any case. It’s what the mullahs want, and he was approved by the mullahs to run in this election in any event.

Agreed. If the mullahs decide to allow Mousavi to be president, then, I think, there would be no significant change from the standpoint of the outside world. The rest of us would notice a difference only if the mullahs themselves were ousted. And I’m not convinced that this is what the majority of these demonstrators are demonstrating for. But oh, how I want to be convinced.

95 tradewind  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:11am

re: #60 alegrias

…and spending 236K for the r/t to Chicago, when a video conference would have worked equally well (or poorly).

96 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:11am

I’m 54 and have lived thru alot. And I must say I have NO idea what’s going on in Iran and if I were President, and if I knew nothing also, I’d keep my mouth shut till I did.

97 JustABill  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:36am

re: #34 _RememberTonyC

As I said on the other thread …

Whatever good happens in iran, if the forces of freedom should prevail, is due in no small part to George W. Bush’s efforts in the region. Don’t doubt for a moment that plenty in iran have seen those purple fingers next door in iraq and noticed that there is a diference between phony freedom and the real thing. And if Obama is a true statesman, he will repeat this publicly and point out that the people of iran deserve the same opportunity as their neighbors in Iraq.

Thanks Dubya … you are a great American!


but there were no weapons of mass distruction
/ (hopefully not necessary)

98 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:40am

re: #75 Dianna

No disagreement on their willingness. I do wonder what would happen if they had to call in the army, though.

Very good question. As far as I can understand all of this, it seems that the mullahs are no different from tyrants in any country, at any time in history. I don’t think this is really about religion; it’s about power and control. And I fear the mullahs, like any other tyrant, will not go quietly. It could be awful.

99 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:44am

re: #90 realwest
I don’t think the one has said a word. The WH spokesman, Plugs Biden, have said mealy mouthed BS, nothing of consequence.

100 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:52am

If the resistance wants people who will fight back with all they have, give the guns to the women of Iran.

101 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:52am

I’m OK if the Iranian people get this figured out with very limited U.S. involvement.

102 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:09:54am

Confirmed

one dead today as a result of shooting

103 JohnnyReb  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:15am

I mean at some point you have to ask how many people will the government soldiers shot before they say enough? If it was me, I am not sure I could even shoot one let alone dozens or hundreds. I guess they would just turn around and shoot me. I most likely would not make a good government thug.

104 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:22am

re: #78 reine.de.tout

The Basiji police that killed 4 ppl in Tehran got killed by the ppl!

UH OH!
/I do hope that’s true! It could be a powerful symbol for the resistance.

105 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:23am

re: #74 Killgore Trout

At first I thought that MPACUK statement was sarcastic but they seem serious.

Nah, alas, they’re clearly chuffed to bits with the ‘result’.

106 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:26am

re: #91 Spartacus50

Obama’s silence on this issue is deafening. Come to think of it, his silence on anything human-rights related is disgraceful

Except for supposed human rights violations at GITMO, he’s all over those.

107 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:27am

re: #77 Baier

I wonder if Ahmedinejad will be scapegoated just so they can stay in power.

anything is possible, but I think it will be either a really brutal suppression or complete revolution, I can’t see a middle ground.

108 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:30am

Obama will not support the protestors, as the type of Government he likes is already present in Iran

109 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:41am

re: #103 JohnnyReb

regular army believed to say they’ll stay out of this

110 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:10:57am

re: #108 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Shame on Obama….

111 FrogMarch  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:04am

The Obama admin has their official stance right here:
cbsnews.com

112 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:12am

Coffee and numbers call me. I’d rather follow this, but I need to work.

113 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:26am

re: #75 Dianna

No disagreement on their willingness. I do wonder what would happen if they had to call in the army, though.

FYI, there are two armies — the IRGC, which is behind this, and the regular Army.

114 tradewind  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:29am

re: #96 Nevergiveup

If you were president and knew ’ nothing ’ about what was going on in Iran, you should fire your national security and State teams .
BHO knows how to run a campaign, that is how not to box himself into a position. Governing?
Not so much.

115 LC LaWedgie  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:33am

Saw a twitter post yesterday that said some of the riot busters were speaking Arabic… another that said Hizb’allah was augmenting the police force.

116 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:37am

re: #96 Nevergiveup

I’m 54 and have lived thru alot. And I must say I have NO idea what’s going on in Iran and if I were President, and if I knew nothing also, I’d keep my mouth shut till I did.

That’s why I didn’t not write you in on November 4.

117 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:41am

General labor strike called for in Iran for tomorrow Tues June 15

118 BruxellesBlog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:46am

The CIA, Interpol, MI5, French Secret Service, ect have all been predicting that demographics would flip Iran without the west needing to fire a shot. 50% of the population is under 30, let’s say they don’t have the burning hatred of the ‘great Satan’ like their parents.

It would not be out of the question to say that the democracy now functioning in Iraq may be putting more pressure too on despotic regimes.

Let’s hope this doesn’t turn into Tienanmen redux.

119 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:54am

Iran is on CNN. Foxnews still talking Obamacare.

120 AuntAcid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:11:54am

re: #54 solomonpanting

Depends, in part, on how many the mullah’s are willing to shoot. I fear very many.

The mullahs are going green…and reducing their national carbon footprint.

121 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:02am

re: #90 realwest

Hey alegrias, am I correct that Obama has had nothing to say about the situation in Iran since Saturday?
reine has been getting twitter messages asking “Where is the USA in this; we need help” or somesuch.

* * * *
Morning Realwest, hope you’re getting more sleep! Can’t answer your question but…

Please go to weeklystandard.com and check out their right hand side threads for news of what the White House HAS actually said.

Great little threads.

122 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:06am

re: #115 LC LaWedgie

One Pali, One Yemeni detained by people

123 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:08am

re: #84 Wendya

Don’t you know Jimmy Carter was responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union?

//

They (hard core dems) always say the Soviet Union was destined to collapse as it wasn’t sustainable, but Reagan had nothing to do with it.
*they’re wearing f**kin’ blinders*

124 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:12am

Photos.

125 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:30am

re: #119 rwdflynavy

shame on Fox News

126 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:34am

re: #102 winston06

Confirmed

one dead today as a result of shooting

* * * *
3 people were shot yesterday overnight in Washington, DC….a gun free zone!

127 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:44am

re: #77 Baier

I wonder if Ahmedinejad will be scapegoated just so they can stay in power.


Is anyone beside me hoping to see him hanging from a construction crane in downtown Tehran?

128 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:50am

re: #110 winston06

Shame on Obama….

Great to see you, Winston!

Sad to say, I have to go to work now. BBT

129 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:52am

re: #123 unrealizedviewpoint
They’re unmitigated fatheads!

130 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12:57am

re: #118 BruxellesBlog

70% r under 30 yrs of age

131 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:14am

re: #126 alegrias

arm the Iranian people

132 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:17am

re: #119 rwdflynavy

Iran is on CNN. Foxnews still talking Obamacare.

I swear I feel like I’m going nuts sometimes.
CNN is beginning to seem to me to be more “balanced” in some ways than Fox.
I feel like my head’s gonna explode.

133 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:30am

re: #130 winston06
That many? Holy Moly!

134 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:31am

re: #114 tradewind

If you were president and knew ’ nothing ’ about what was going on in Iran, you should fire your national security and State teams .
BHO knows how to run a campaign, that is how not to box himself into a position. Governing?
Not so much.

I don’t think anyone really knows what is going on in Iran right now.

135 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:38am

Oh God, Christiane Amanpour is on the ground. Ugh.

136 SixDegrees  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:41am

Ahmadinijad’s statement yesterday that he “cannot guarantee Mousavi’s safety” sounds like a thinly-veiled threat. Not a particularly wise one, judging from the unfolding drama, but Mousavi would do well to watch his back.

137 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:52am

re: #116 CommonCents

That’s why I didn’t not write you in on November 4.

So you were the one?

138 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:52am

re: #103 JohnnyReb

I mean at some point you have to ask how many people will the government soldiers shot before they say enough? If it was me, I am not sure I could even shoot one let alone dozens or hundreds. I guess they would just turn around and shoot me. I most likely would not make a good government thug.

They were saying on Fox this morning that the turning point in the 1989 anti-communist uprisings was when the guards/military refused to fire on the citizenry.

139 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:56am

re: #86 alegrias

Here it comes, Pres. Obama says America must INVEST (save & create) in Prevention!

(while millions of Iranian freedom fighters wait for a shout out)

You know, a revolution in Iran right about now could be a good INVESTMENT in prevention. Preventing a lot of American burns, limb amputations, radiation-induced cancers…

I understand the need to appear that we’re not interfering. But would it hurt for Obama just to say “we hear the raised voices of the great Iranian people, we admire your courage, and our hearts are with you in your struggle for freedom.”

140 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:58am

re: #135 Macker

She is one of the bad guys

141 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:59am

re: #56 unrealizedviewpoint

How come the republican’s have to do all the heavy lifting with so much of the credit going to the dems.

because the dems are girlie men and can’t lift much weight ?

142 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:13:59am

re: #81 soxfan4life

Nice to see how he’s going to take from the well off seniors to help provide for those who didn’t prepare for who didn’t prepare for their own retirement. Happy you voted for this schmuck to protect your SS Benefits now.

Please remember that a LOT of people on Social Security (and not just SSDI) had savings and retirement plans, but who here has had their 401k’s go up in any significant manner since Janurary 20, 2009 or for that matter, January 20, 2007 (when the new congresscritters got sworn in and gave congressional power to the Dems)? And let’s not forget ALL those women who were for the most part “just” stay at home moms who receive a small percentage of what their husband’s earned after their husbands died?
Do they deserve to get fucked with?

143 LC LaWedgie  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:14:24am

re: #135 Macker

Where there’s war, there’s Amanpour.

144 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:14:28am

re: #134 Nevergiveup
The French may have the best handle on this. Aren’t they pretty tight with Iran, relatively speaking.

145 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:14:32am

re: #134 Nevergiveup

I don’t think anyone really knows what is going on in Iran right now.


Except for Dick Cheney, he knows all, and will be blamed by the left and the MSM.

146 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:14:35am

Interesting photo

147 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:14:53am

re: #96 Nevergiveup

I’m 54 and have lived thru alot. And I must say I have NO idea what’s going on in Iran and if I were President, and if I knew nothing also, I’d keep my mouth shut till I did.

If you were President, you would know what’s going on in Iran, every moment of every day. If you didn’t, you would have absolutely no business being president, and you should step down and let a professional do the job.

148 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:01am

re: #146 reine.de.tout

it is a culture where elderly are well taken care of

149 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:07am

Looking at the big picture:

Given:

1. In Iran, the position of president has little actual power.
2. The real power is held by the Council of the Guardians, headed by the Supreme Ruler.
3. The Supreme Ruler controls the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards.
4. All candidates for election were approved by the Supreme Leader.

Therefore:

5. Mousavi cannot make any real change in policy.
6. Mousavi was approved by the mullahs.
7. Mousavi is not seen as a threat to the regime.

Possible outcomes:
7. The regime will “relent” and accept the election of Mousavi, playing the people for fools.
8. The regime will use this crisis as an excuse to crack down hard on opposition and declare martial law enforced by the IIRG.

150 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:07am

re: #84 Wendya

Don’t you know Jimmy Carter was responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union?

//


yeah … they fell over from laughing so hard at him

151 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:14am

re: #111 FrogMarch

The Obama admin has their official stance right here:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

The comments on that drivel wrap it up nicely.

152 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:25am

re: #101 Racer X

I’m OK if the Iranian people get this figured out with very limited U.S. involvement.

* * * * *
How about this?

Iranians could ask their democratic neighbor IRAQ for help right now.
FREE Iraqis could support freedom seeking Iranians.

153 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:32am

re: #144 pingjockey

The French may have the best handle on this. Aren’t they pretty tight with Iran, relatively speaking.

Maybe, but boy is that a scary thought?

154 Spartacus50  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:49am

Meanwhile, Islamists who were detained fighting at Tora Bora are now frolicking in the warm waters of Bermuda. Its pretty clear where POTUS stands on Islamic extremism

155 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:15:52am

re: #66 Last Mohican

That’s my general assessment. If a revolution is brewing, nothing would kill it faster than the perception that Americans (or, worse, “the Jews”) were the ones behind it.

On the other hand, I would like to believe that my government recognized the gravity of the situation, and would know if and when one small, carefully placed helping hand might tip the balance. I would like to believe that was the case, but I know that it is not. Obama doesn’t recognize the threat that Iran poses. He’s willing to allow them to proceed with their nuclear ambitions. Far from trying to fight Iran’s terrorist proxies, he embraces them and confers legitimacy upon them.

The people of Iran and the people of the entire world need a strong, wise American president right now. Instead, we have a witless megalomaniac who will do nothing, whether or not nothing is the right thing to do.

Yet conservatives have absolutely no doubt that Obama’s lack of a statement is solely do to his character flaws. If Obama is willing to allow Iran to proceed with its nuclear ambitions, was Bush not willing? And if not why didn’t he stop them? What happened?

156 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:16:01am

re: #140 winston06

WINSTON ARE YOU OK?

157 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:16:09am

re: #146 reine.de.tout

Aquafina?

158 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:16:14am

re: #152 alegrias

Major highway west of Tehran is blocked by IRGC for the fear of arms flow from western Kurdish regions to Tehran

159 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:16:24am

re: #153 Nevergiveup
It is. However, they sheltered the Assaholla and have been a conduit to the west for them.

160 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:16:39am

re: #156 Macker

I am okay but disgusted with CNN having this a..hole Trita Parsi on. He is a regime agent

161 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:16:51am

re: #86 alegrias

Here it comes, Pres. Obama says America must INVEST (save & create) in Prevention!

(while millions of Iranian freedom fighters wait for a shout out)


Yeah, as if you could invest in preventing genetically inherited illnesses.
And what, STILL NO COMMENT on Iran since Saturday?

162 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:04am

re: #147 Last Mohican

If you were President, you would know what’s going on in Iran, every moment of every day. If you didn’t, you would have absolutely no business being president, and you should step down and let a professional do the job.

It’s nice to think that, but I am not so sure our “Intelligence Agencies” really have any good intelligence on this. I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

163 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:19am

re: #119 rwdflynavy

Iran is on CNN. Foxnews still talking Obamacare.

* * * *
CNN always maintains good relations with tyrants!

Remember during the Gulf War, CNN kept their Baghdad bureau open by appeasing Saddam Hussein somehow.

NOT that CNN would support toppling tyrants, mind you. Oh no, that’s off the table.

164 MJ  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:24am

How long before Iran has it’s proxies in Hamas and Hizballah attack Israel in order to deflect attention away from itself?

165 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:28am

re: #155 Flyers1974
Can you say Useless Nitwits? I knew you could.

166 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:42am

re: #149 Kenneth

4. All candidates for election were approved by the Supreme Leader…

7. Mousavi is not seen as a threat to the regime.

They would appear to have made a mistake or two.

167 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:54am

re: #14 Desert Dog

He’s waiting for the latest focus group and polling data before he does anything. He will not get another chance to stir things up like this again. My bet is he will not say a thing or very little, which will prop up the mullahs.

I would hope we’ve learned something from Hungary 1956 and Iraq 1991.
Keep shut if you’re not willing to back up a revolution with something meaningful.

168 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:58am

Pro-Ahmadinejad websites are hacked

169 Morganfrost  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:58am

The young people screaming “we want freedom” in English were making an unabashed appeal to the United States— at the risk of their own lives.

Let’s hope that we can show a small measure of the strength of character being displayed by these courageous people, and back their play!

170 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:17:59am

Foxnews finally covering…

171 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:01am

re: #97 JustABill

but there were no weapons of mass distruction
/ (hopefully not necessary)

American’s would have easily overlooked the lack of WMD’s. The MSM, the drawn out war, the insurgency, the loss of blood, and his inability to effectively communicate caused folks to lose faith. partnered with his continued listening to Rummy, the man who failed to reread Sun Tzu’s Art of War.

172 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:03am
173 Land Shark  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:10am

God bless the Iranian people, they will need it. The Mullahs will do whatever it takes to stay in power, and will use any methods up to and including genocide.

I’ve already heard several in the MSM comparing this to the 2000 Presidential election situation in Florida! Talk about clueless schmucks, really, anyone who gets their news solely from them is completely uninformed.

174 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:14am

re: #152 alegrias

* * * * *
How about this?

Iranians could ask their democratic neighbor IRAQ for help right now.
FREE Iraqis could support freedom seeking Iranians.

See…that would make it Bush’s fault.
//

175 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:26am

re: #93 jcm

Which is why the success of the uprising is crucial. It would achieve regime change.

Is there any evidence the protests are aimed at regime change? Or are they merely calling for Mousavi to be acknowledged? There are some chants of “Death to the mullahs, death to the dictators” which is good. But will the people be molified when the regime relents and accepts Mousavi as president?

176 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:29am

re: #103 JohnnyReb

I mean at some point you have to ask how many people will the government soldiers shot before they say enough? If it was me, I am not sure I could even shoot one let alone dozens or hundreds. I guess they would just turn around and shoot me. I most likely would not make a good government thug.

FYI, there was a scene in the first Russian Army incursion into Budapest (the unsuccessful one). A large crowd demonstrating near the secret police HQ. A column of Russian tanks approaching.

The demonstrators began talking to the Russians, explaining their reasons for the Uprising.

Stasi men, in their building, shot into the crowd, killing a woman carrying a young child, in plain view of the commander of the Russian platoon.

With tears in his eyes, he ordered his men to turn their guns on the secret police.

177 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:37am

re: #149 Kenneth

Possible outcome #9: The people, being fed up with years of repression by the regime, will see its denial of Mousavi’s victory as the last straw, even though the presidency is largely symbolic anyway. And their frustration over this relatively minor issue will motivate them to overthrow the regime in its entirety.

It seems like a serious longshot, but that’s what I’m hoping for.

178 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:39am

D-Kos
Iran Election = Florida 2000?

The Atlantic
Iran’s Election: Just Like Florida In 2000?

President Obama’s impact felt beyond American shores

America’s moral authority was lost as each time there was report of election malpractice in any country where democracy was being sought, the US could not respond and if we did, you would hear the likes of Mugabe tell George W. Bush to literally “go to hell” as he (the latter) had no moral authority having stolen an election, to question the legitimacy of any government or leader.

This phenomenon produced a ripple effect by way of the ascension to or grip on power by the likes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hamas in Palestine, Umaru Yar’Adua in Nigeria and Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. The American period of illegitimacy, as I like to call the George W. Bush era….


Stoopid is everywhere.

179 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:47am

re: #149 Kenneth

A grand version of the canary trap - expose all those who are opposed to the regime, and use this as a basis for crackdown. It’s a possibility, but it’s far more likely that Ahmadinejad overstepped his own strategy for takeover and didn’t expect this kind of response.

180 JohnnyReb  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:54am

re: #142 realwest

Please remember that a LOT of people on Social Security (and not just SSDI) had savings and retirement plans, but who here has had their 401k’s go up in any significant manner since Janurary 20, 2009 or for that matter, January 20, 2007 (when the new congresscritters got sworn in and gave congressional power to the Dems)? And let’s not forget ALL those women who were for the most part “just” stay at home moms who receive a small percentage of what their husband’s earned after their husbands died?
Do they deserve to get fucked with?

Even worse is there will be no COLA raise for anyone this year that gets a government check. We already got the word on out military retirement checks about no increases because the CPI is negative.

181 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:18:59am

re: #142 realwest

Please remember that a LOT of people on Social Security (and not just SSDI) had savings and retirement plans, but who here has had their 401k’s go up in any significant manner since Janurary 20, 2009 or for that matter, January 20, 2007 (when the new congresscritters got sworn in and gave congressional power to the Dems)? And let’s not forget ALL those women who were for the most part “just” stay at home moms who receive a small percentage of what their husband’s earned after their husbands died?
Do they deserve to get fucked with?

Do the ones who worked hard and saved to ensure their golden years would be enjoyable deserve to be fucked with? What the asshat should do is a housecleaning on the gimme girls collecting SSI and SSDI for bogus claims. AARP was a huge supporter of 0bama due to the SS privitization which would have 0 effect on current seniors and if they fell for 0’s false promises so blissfully due to it they deserve the shaft more than our children and grandchildren do.

182 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:19:00am

re: #125 winston06

shame on Fox News

* * * *
On the contrary, by showing you WHAT Pres. Obama is actually doing while Tehranis are getting shot at by their own police, FOX is telling the truth.

THe emperor has no clothes, when it comes to leading oppressed people in the Caliphate.

183 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:19:16am

re: #179 lawhawk

not if mlns of people join. they cant arrest millions of them

184 brucee  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:19:23am

re: #40 alegrias

* * * *
Obama’s firing jewish Dennis Ross from the Iran desk because Iran objects to him.

Obama’s CHOOSING not to speak to those under tyranny, and he’s appeasing their tyrants.

Yeah, I just found out about that. It is extremely disturbing, especially at this point. He’s directly supporting Ahmadimonkey at the worst possible time. I guess sending flowers would be his next step.

185 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:19:32am

re: #151 CommonCents

The comments on that drivel wrap it up nicely.

You mean the comments from Fly Over Country (how CBS editors see it).

186 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:19:37am

re: #96 Nevergiveup
I can understand what you’re saying, but it hasn’t stopped GB, France, Germany, the EU and even the UN (fwltw) from speaking up and out about their concerns about the legitimacy of the government and qualms over the Iranian “elections”.
Obama’s statement on Saturday was his way of saying
“Present”.

187 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:19:37am

re: #178 jcm

Never mind that the NYT, WaPo and the media recounts all found that Bush won. So, thank you for playing. Stuck on stupid rules.

188 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:04am

re: #117 winston06

General labor strike called for in Iran for tomorrow Tues June 15

WINSTON!
Thanks for your blog!

189 right_wing2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:08am

Diebold built the machines used in Iran, and it’s Bushitler’s fault!

//

190 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:11am

re: #131 winston06

arm the Iranian people

* * * *
Iraq could do this right next door.

191 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:15am

So, this civil unrest is a good thing in Iran, but not so good here?

192 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:30am

re: #178 jcm
I swear, those people are dumber than a box of rocks.

193 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:31am

Gotta go and work. Later.

194 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:33am

re: #127 _RememberTonyC

Is anyone beside me hoping to see him hanging from a construction crane in downtown Tehran?

As a conservative, favoring tried and true methods over novelty solutions, I would prefer a lamppost.

195 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:51am

re: #183 winston06

No, you only have to arrest the leaders and cow the rest. It’s how the Chinese did what they did in the aftermath of Tienanmen Square. Arresting 2,000 or so people stopped the democracy movement cold. And that was 20 years ago, and the government maintains a zero-tolerance of any mention of Tienanmen Square.

196 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:20:57am

re: #178 jcm

Heh. Idiots.

197 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:21:09am

Fox has blurb about NUKE TEST. I wonder if Kim Jong Il is taking advantage of the diversion.

198 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:21:13am

re: #161 realwest

Yeah, as if you could invest in preventing genetically inherited illnesses.
And what, STILL NO COMMENT on Iran since Saturday?


Situation is so fluid 0 can’t get a current enough opinion poll to tell us what he wants to see happen.

199 capitalist piglet  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:21:21am

re: #182 alegrias

* * * *
On the contrary, by showing you WHAT Pres. Obama is actually doing while Tehranis are getting shot at by their own police, FOX is telling the truth.

THe emperor has no clothes, when it comes to leading oppressed people in the Caliphate.

It’s called a “robust debate”.

200 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:21:56am

re: #135 Macker

Oh God, Christiane Amanpour is on the ground. Ugh.

* * * *
She’s there for ratings, and to blame Pres. Bush, no doubt.

Amanpour wouldn’t actually DO something, or advocate liberty from tyranny, even of her own people.

201 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:05am

re: #186 realwest

I can understand what you’re saying, but it hasn’t stopped GB, France, Germany, the EU and even the UN (fwltw) from speaking up and out about their concerns about the legitimacy of the government and qualms over the Iranian “elections”.
Obama’s statement on Saturday was his way of saying
“Present”.

Yeah, but “everyone” knows no matter how much they run down America, it’s ONLY the United States of America that counts. When people of eastern europe were under the Russian yoke, their eyes always looked to Washington, not to Paris , Berlin, or London.

202 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:05am

re: #139 Last Mohican

You know, a revolution in Iran right about now could be a good INVESTMENT in prevention. Preventing a lot of American burns, limb amputations, radiation-induced cancers…

I understand the need to appear that we’re not interfering. But would it hurt for Obama just to say “we hear the raised voices of the great Iranian people, we admire your courage, and our hearts are with you in your struggle for freedom.”

May be, but any fool can make that statement, literally anyone who speaks English. If Obama isn’t saying it, can it really be a matter of lacking moral fiber or some such variation of that phrase?

203 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:06am

re: #160 winston06

Are you in Iran right now or in Canada?

204 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:08am

re: #117 winston06
Just wanted to say Thank You for all your hard work and postings.

205 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:09am

re: #162 Nevergiveup

It’s nice to think that, but I am not so sure our “Intelligence Agencies” really have any good intelligence on this. I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

They should ask the Mossad, then.
But would the Mossad trust a western intelligence agency with the info?

206 brucee  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:18am

There’s no simple solution, but the world shouldn’t watch Tehrananmen unfold and stay quite.

207 tradewind  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:35am

re: #119 rwdflynavy
Only because CNN was slammed last weekend by a massive twitter attack re their ignoring the situation…
fastbrowsersearch.com

208 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:38am

re: #158 winston06

Major highway west of Tehran is blocked by IRGC for the fear of arms flow from western Kurdish regions to Tehran

HEH!

209 jill e  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:39am

CBS Publishes New Republic Piece Comparing Bush to Ahmadinejad.

210 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:22:41am

re: #191 kansas

So, this civil unrest is a good thing in Iran, but not so good here?

USA has democracy, unlike Iran. So yes, it’s a good thing in Iran, and not a good thing in the USA.

211 redc1c4  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:23:00am

re: #4 Nevergiveup

Well in this case it may be better to stay silent than to say something stupid.

then Ear Leader should remain mute for the rest of his term……..

212 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:23:04am

re: #148 winston06

it is a culture where elderly are well taken care of

Beautiful photo, imo.
With all that’s going on right now …just wonderful

213 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:23:05am

re: #188 pre-Boomer Marine brat

you can donate to my coffee fund there if you like it

214 BruxellesBlog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:23:25am

re: #130 winston06

Not to quibble, but the median age is 26.4.

iranmarketingconsulting.com

215 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:23:28am

re: #121 alegrias
Thanks for that alegrias - and no, I’m not getting more sleep but see the dentist today and that may help some!
(hard to sleep through a headache and ghosts, harder still with a toothache on top of it all!).

216 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:23:58am

re: #212 reine.de.tout

Check how people tried to shield the police officer from further beating. Iran is a messed up country, I know but it is destroyed by the mullahs. The basics there are good and positive. People are nice. They are the only allies the west has in Iran

217 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:23:59am

Heh.
from PersianKiwi:

confirmed - ahmadinejad website hacked off net. #Iranelection
218 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:05am

re: #167 Son of the Black Dog

I would hope we’ve learned something from Hungary 1956 and Iraq 1991.
Keep shut if you’re not willing to back up a revolution with something meaningful.

Yes, and Prague 1968 as well.

Prague Spring

219 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:08am

re: #214 BruxellesBlog

yup

220 Mike McDaniel  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:23am

The smart thing to do would be to quietly be ready to work with the resistance. Communications for the moment, but be ready to provide arms, training, and fire support.

If we do it right, Iran does its own housecleaning. Which is a lot better than the United States handling it.

221 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:23am

re: #179 lawhawk

A grand version of the canary trap - expose all those who are opposed to the regime, and use this as a basis for crackdown. It’s a possibility, but it’s far more likely that Ahmadinejad overstepped his own strategy for takeover and didn’t expect this kind of response.

“Mess with the bull—you get the horns!”

—Principal Vernon

222 quickjustice  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:29am

re: #18 lawhawk

I’m not privy to the CIA intelligence assessments of the situation on the ground, but the public murder of peaceful Iranian protesters will expose the Iranian clerical regime as the group of murderous thugs it is.

Political murder is bad enough. Murder in the name of G-d is doubly blasphemous.

Obama will remain silent. He and Hillary want to do a deal with whomever comes out on top.

223 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:32am

re: #201 Nevergiveup

Yeah, but “everyone” knows no matter how much they run down America, it’s ONLY the United States of America that counts. When people of eastern europe were under the Russian yoke, their eyes always looked to Washington, not to Paris , Berlin, or London.

that was then, this is now… I think some people are going to very disappointed.

224 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:46am

my blog updates

thespiritofman.blogspot.com

225 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:24:47am

re: #216 winston06

Check how people tried to shield the police officer from further beating. Iran is a messed up country, I know but it is destroyed by the mullahs. The basics there are good and positive. People are nice. They are the only allies the west has in Iran

I believe that.

226 tradewind  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:02am

re: #178 jcm

There are still people stuck to their barstools at the Hanging Chad Saloon, and no amount of rehab is gonna sober them up.

227 S'latch  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:22am

A major crackdown could be is on the way. (fixed).

228 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:26am

re: #210 Jimmah

USA has democracy, unlike Iran. So yes, it’s a good thing in Iran, and not a good thing in the USA.

I’m getting a little tired of 53% of the voting population in one election cramming shit down everyone else’s throat.

229 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:29am

Ahmadinejad’s own website is hacked by opposition

230 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:50am

Another interesting photo from a twitterer.

231 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:51am

re: #209 jill e


Well if they were to compare 0bama to Ahmadinajad they would be racists now wouldn’t they.

232 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:53am

Pictures from the scene of the shooting….
twitpic.com

233 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #155 Flyers1974

Yet conservatives have absolutely no doubt that Obama’s lack of a statement is solely do to his character flaws. If Obama is willing to allow Iran to proceed with its nuclear ambitions, was Bush not willing? And if not why didn’t he stop them? What happened?

Bush was willing. Or, to put a finer point on it, I think his position was to state unequivocally that a nuclear Iran was unacceptable, but then to do nothing about it, perhaps leaving the problem for the next president. I have occasionally wondered if Bush didn’t make some kind of a deal with Iran, in which they withdrew support for insurgents in Iraq, in exchange for Bush letting them continue their nuclear weapons program. In that way, Bush’s legacy would be salvaged, in that we’d win the Iraq war during his presidency, and the Iranian nuke problem would be dumped onto someone else’s watch. I did notice that things started going a lot better in Iraq right when that bogus NIE statement about Iran was issued.

Obama’s policy in general is worse than a “lack of a statement.” He has officially endorsed Iran’s pursuit of nuclear power, and expressed his willingness to negotiate, without conditions, with a country that supports terrorism and vows to annihilate another country. He has endorsed the participation of Iran’s genocidal terrorist proxies in “Palestinian” government.

234 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:26:07am

I’ve been reading that Mousavi is not really an opposition figure. He may be in the same mold. And that the real opposition figures are dead, in jail, or somehow else excluded from the ballot. So I’m not all that into thinking the Iranians are standing up to the genocidal leadership unless they call for other candidates than Mousavi… But I know I don’t know diddly about this.

235 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:26:09am

Silence from Barack Obama. His personal goals apparently exceed those of the nation and those seeking freedom in Iran.

Many speak of a revolt in North Korea. If faced with the same kind of protests the response from Barack Obama would be the same: silence.

236 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:26:33am

re: #213 winston06

you can donate to my coffee fund there if you like it

Will do it … absolutely, sometime today.
Am going now to put a reminder Post-It on my jar of instant coffee.

237 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:26:40am

Obama, is busy “fixing” health care. That’s gonna hurt.

238 Ziggy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:26:45am

I don’t understand the difference in candidates. I thought nothing happened without the Mullah’s say so, so then wouldn’t any candidate only be a figure head for them and policy remain the same?

BTY, where’s the White House on this one? Has Mahmoud been sent a congratulations bouquet?

239 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:26:48am

re: #236 pre-Boomer Marine brat

thanks

240 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:27:01am

After seeing the demographic winston posted, 70% of the population under 30, they don’t want to live in a stifling theocracy. We need to help these folks out, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out a way to do it without playing into the mad mullhas hands.

241 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:27:05am

re: #137 Nevergiveup

That’s why I didn’t not write you in on November 4.


So you were the one?

I would guess there were alot of US.

242 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:27:14am

re: #158 winston06

Major highway west of Tehran is blocked by IRGC for the fear of arms flow from western Kurdish regions to Tehran

Time to break into the weapons caches and take out the IRGC.

243 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:27:14am

This ain’t no election… tinyurl.com #tcot #IranElection

244 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:27:41am

Just talked to family and friends in Iran; SMS, Internet, Satellite TV all shut off

245 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:27:53am

re: #229 winston06

Ahmadinejad’s own website is hacked by opposition

Linky?

246 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:28:06am

The size of the crowds looks very significant. I hope real change is in the air.

247 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:28:07am

re: #209 jill e

CBS Publishes New Republic Piece Comparing Bush to Ahmadinejad.

Bush has replaced Nixon as the Left’s boogey man.

248 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:28:30am

re: #245 Macker

persiankiwiwww.ahmadinejad.ir - hacked - hacked - hacked - afareen - javeed bad mellat Iran. #Iranelection

249 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:28:37am

re: #247 FurryOldGuyJeans

Bush has replaced Nixon as the Left’s boogey man.


Nixon or Reagan?

250 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:28:38am

persiankiwi ahmadinejad.ir - hacked - hacked - hacked - afareen - javeed bad mellat Iran. #Iranelection

251 tradewind  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:28:51am

re: #235 Gus 802

The poor gen/pop in Nork is too weak from hunger to protest….the goose-steppers get all the groceries…

252 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:28:59am

re: #96 Nevergiveup

I’m 54 and have lived thru alot. And I must say I have NO idea what’s going on in Iran and if I were President, and if I knew nothing also, I’d keep my mouth shut till I did.

You wouldn’t even speak up in support of those seeking freedom and self determination.

The MORAL imperative here is more important than the political one.

Sometimes you have to do the RIGHT thing.

253 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:29:17am

Isn’t this amazing? With technology the way it is, we can see this stuff happening live, completely bypassing the state run media.


I mean ours.

254 equable  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:29:28am

This is getting very serious. Not only was Ahmadinnerjacket’s site owned but they are targeting this list:

docs.google.com

Remember, the Geek shall inherit the earth.

255 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:29:32am

re: #228 kansas

I’m getting a little tired of 53% of the voting population in one election cramming shit down everyone else’s throat.

Hi Kansas. Yep, I’m with ya. And to make ya even more sick and tired, it was actually 53% of the approx 62% of eligible voters who actually voted in 2008.

So, to make ya really steamed, it was actually about 33% of the eligible voters who crammed it down everyone else’s throat.

;-(

256 AuntAcid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:29:45am

re: #235 Gus 802

Silence from Barack Obama. His personal goals apparently exceed those of the nation and those seeking freedom in Iran.

Many speak of a revolt in North Korea. If faced with the same kind of protests the response from Barack Obama would be the same: silence.

I’m thinking Obama would like to slide over to top spot at the UN when he’s done screwing up as many things as he could as POTUS.

257 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:29:56am

The revolution in Iran will be a digital one, the first of too many to come in the 21st century in the world

258 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:29:57am

re: #220 Mike McDaniel

The smart thing to do would be to quietly be ready to work with the resistance. Communications for the moment, but be ready to provide arms, training, and fire support.

If we do it right, Iran does its own housecleaning. Which is a lot better than the United States handling it.

This has always been the way I saw it. Iran’s middle class solves Iran, North Korea collapses from incompetence and external pressure, and Iraq was not going to get better without some ass-kicking.

Problem is, the “six-party talks” put pressure on us not NK, and we have resolutely lined up against the Iranian people through fickleness and expedience.

259 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:29:58am

re: #235 Gus 802

Silence from Barack Obama. His personal goals apparently exceed those of the nation and those seeking freedom in Iran.

Many speak of a revolt in North Korea. If faced with the same kind of protests the response from Barack Obama would be the same: silence.

I wager that if Iran comes out of this as more democratic and pro-USA, we will then hear alot from Obama as he takes credit for the change. I would also bet we hear little from him about Bush’s role in such changes.

260 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:06am

re: #248 winston06

persiankiwiwww.ahmadinejad.ir - hacked - hacked - hacked - afareen - javeed bad mellat Iran. #Iranelection

Server is overloaded. Gee I wonder why.

261 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:11am

re: #252 jcm

You wouldn’t even speak up in support of those seeking freedom and self determination.

The MORAL imperative here is more important than the political one.

Sometimes you have to do the RIGHT thing.

That is the difference between you and 0bama. You let morals take a front seat to politics and false outrage.

262 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:16am

re: #242 Dianna

Time to break into the weapons caches and take out the IRGC.

that could cause the army to takes sides… this could be one of those times where guns won’t help.

263 horse  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:18am

You would think that crack staff in the White House would have at least something smart to say that would neither inflame nor snuff the situation. An “oxygen” neutral statement that still lets the people of Iran know we care about them, their freedom and their safety. Even something simple like “Our hopes and prayers go out to the Iranian people, that they find a fair and safe resolution to the problems they face during this chaotic event.”

264 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:22am

re: #38 Desert Dog

And, remember, not one gay person around either!

There are plenty of gay people hanging around.

265 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:41am

re: #253 rightside

Isn’t this amazing? With technology the way it is, we can see this stuff happening live, completely bypassing the state run media.

I mean ours.

It really is amazing to watch this stuff unfold in real time.

266 equable  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:45am

Oh just so you know, if you click those links it will take you to a service that automatically reloads the sites listed. So unless you want to engage in a DoS attack of sorts I’d advise against clicking them.

267 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:30:49am

re: #222 quickjustice

I’m not privy to the CIA intelligence assessments of the situation on the ground, but the public murder of peaceful Iranian protesters will expose the Iranian clerical regime as the group of murderous thugs it is.

My problem is that most people already know that the clerical regime is a bunch of sadistic and sanctimonious butchers, and still they remain in power and are given legitimacy. This needs to stop.

268 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:31:03am

re: #255 subsailor68

Hi Kansas. Yep, I’m with ya. And to make ya even more sick and tired, it was actually 53% of the approx 62% of eligible voters who actually voted in 2008.

So, to make ya really steamed, it was actually about 33% of the eligible voters who crammed it down everyone else’s throat.

;-(

Thanks for that, ya fargin bastige. : )
PS
Dow down 200, time to bail?

269 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:31:21am

re: #253 rightside

Isn’t this amazing? With technology the way it is, we can see this stuff happening live, completely bypassing the state run media.

I mean ours.

I was just thinking that.
Updates, virtually real-time, by people there, bypassing their own media (and ours), and we can “watch” it happen. Amazing and fascinating.

270 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:31:27am

re: #216 winston06

Check how people tried to shield the police officer from further beating. Iran is a messed up country, I know but it is destroyed by the mullahs. The basics there are good and positive. People are nice. They are the only allies the west has in Iran

Does anybody know if the regular police have lined up against the people? I was away from info for a few hours.

271 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:31:34am

re: #263 horse

You would think that crack-smoking staff in the White House would have at least something smart to say that would neither inflame nor snuff the situation. An “oxygen” neutral statement that still lets the people of Iran know we care about them, their freedom and their safety. Even something simple like “Our hopes and prayers go out to the Iranian people, that they find a fair and safe resolution to the problems they face during this chaotic event.”

There, fixed that for ya!

272 Syrah  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:31:36am

re: #255 subsailor68

Hi Kansas. Yep, I’m with ya. And to make ya even more sick and tired, it was actually 53% of the approx 62% of eligible voters who actually voted in 2008.

So, to make ya really steamed, it was actually about 33% of the eligible voters who crammed it down everyone else’s throat.

;-(

Those that turned up their nose and sat out the election are not without blame.

273 JohnnyReb  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:31:46am

Some of the pictures I see are encouraging. Tens of thousands protesting. The younger generation could take back their country but they are going to pay a very heavy price for doing it. I am sure they have to know that.

274 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:31:47am

SOMEONE TURNOFF THE ROTATING OSCILLATOR!

The SHIITE is about to fly!
Wonder the O thinks of this?
I know! We’ll never really know!

275 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:32:04am

Can I get a link to the Ross firing news?

276 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:32:06am

AP confirms death of protesters in Iran

news.yahoo.com

277 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:32:14am

re: #253 rightside

Isn’t this amazing? With technology the way it is, we can see this stuff happening live, completely bypassing the state run media.

I mean ours.

Yeah, but since it’s live, it’ll pass like a fart in a hurricane, and most everyone will be left with the MSM spin.

278 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:32:15am

twitter.com

Shootings have now been heard in at least three districts of northern Tehran, residents tell Reuters.
279 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:32:22am

re: #269 reine.de.tout
The dictators in non third world countries in the coming years are screwed. Technology will trump all.

280 SixDegrees  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:32:38am

re: #198 soxfan4life

Situation is so fluid 0 can’t get a current enough opinion poll to tell us what he wants to see happen.

Frankly, this is one time 0bama really needs to keep his trap shut. Any opportunity to hang Iranian unrest on “foreign meddling” - especially American - will be seized upon and trumpeted loudly as an excuse to drop the hammer on protesters.

281 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:33:21am

re: #259 livefreeor die

I wager that if Iran comes out of this as more democratic and pro-USA, we will then hear alot from Obama as he takes credit for the change. I would also bet we hear little from him about Bush’s role in such changes.

Yeah, the “Obama effect.” It’s looking more and more like the “Obama affect.” You have to wonder what he’s doing now? Looking at himself in the mirror spit shining his hair? He’s probably thinking more about the “riots” in LA following the Lakers game last night. His silence on this matter is a direct affirmation that he is patronizing the Ahmadinejad regime and the Mullahs. He’s a political coward.

282 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:33:34am

re: #280 SixDegrees

Frankly, this is one time 0bama really needs to keep his trap shut. Any opportunity to hang Iranian unrest on “foreign meddling” - especially American - will be seized upon and trumpeted loudly as an excuse to drop the hammer on protesters.

I can’t think of one time since January 20th that Obama opening his trap actually resulted in anything good.

283 Syrah  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:33:37am

re: #253 rightside

Isn’t this amazing? With technology the way it is, we can see this stuff happening live, completely bypassing the state run media.

I mean ours.

All their base are belong to us.

284 Dave the.....  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:33:43am

Recall how Ronald Reagan and Bush 43 spoke repeatedly about freedom. How they were inspiration for oppressed peoples. Wish more elected leaders said those things.

285 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:03am

re: #280 SixDegrees


And if he doesn’t support the protesters any future uprising by citizens of oppressed regimes around the world will essentially be squashed by his silence.

286 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:25am

re: #283 Syrah

10,000 updings for you!

287 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:32am

From PersianKiwi:

we honour and thank the people of Iran and especially the hackers. Baseej have guns we have brains. #Iranelection

and

confirmed - khamenaie website hacked - the dictator of iran. #Iranelection

288 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:33am

re: #279 pingjockey

The dictators in non third world countries in the coming years are screwed. Technology will trump all.

You know, what trumps technology is a goon with an AK 47.

289 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:38am

re: #242 Dianna

Time to break into the weapons caches and take out the IRGC.

Time for hoping that maybe … just MAYBE … the Artesh (which has no love for the Pasdaran) will throw in with the people.

The Artesh is about as well armed as the military wing of the IRGC.

290 Dave the.....  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:50am

285 sox

And if he doesn’t support the protesters any future uprising by citizens of oppressed regimes around the world will essentially be squashed by his silence.

…good follow-up to my 284.

291 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:51am

re: #265 Killgore Trout

It really is amazing to watch this stuff unfold in real time.

I watched with bated breath the wall-to-wall coverage of the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon, Orange Revolution in Ukraine, Tulip Revolution (I think) in Kyrgyzstan. Now I watch Larry King and wonder what the Hell is going on in Iran.

292 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:34:57am

Fox News has the word of shooting on protesters in Iran

293 solomonpanting  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:35:00am

What was that line fron “Gandhi”? Something to the effect that it’s impossible for 100,000 British soldiers to govern 300 million Indians if they refuse to give their obedience. Now, I know the mullahs may not possess the moral restraint of the Brits in India, but massive civil disobedience may be an option. Again, how many are the mullah’s keepers willing to shoot?

294 wiffersnapper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:35:08am

Good for the people of Iran.

295 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:35:23am
But the mullahs and their hardline supporters still have the guns

Thank the Founders for the Second Amendment…as long as we still have it.

296 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:35:43am

re: #257 winston06

The revolution in Iran will be a digital one, the first of too many to come in the 21st century in the world

The revolution is being twittered. :)

297 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:35:54am

The Iranian PEOPLE have unclenched their fists, dear leader, now unclench your ass and help them!

298 Syrah  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:35:57am

re: #286 Macker

The classics live forever.

299 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:36:13am

from Iran09
ppl burned down the basij station around the azadi sq! #wewin #iranelection

300 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:36:25am

re: #268 kansas

Thanks for that, ya fargin bastige. : )
PS
Dow down 200, time to bail?

LOL!

On the Dow, I was taught that the key to success is to buy low and sell high.

Oops, not too many opportunities to do that lately - unless you’re a day trader with balls of titanium. Sigh.

301 LC LaWedgie  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:36:28am

twitpic.com

302 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:36:29am

re: #288 kansas
True that. That’s why I said non third world. Iran is not a 3rd world country. How many people are the mad mullahs willing to kill to remain in power or how many dead before the army says this is enough. In your 3rd world hell holes with no high tech communication, thugs will win.

303 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:36:39am

re: #297 DisturbedEma

The Iranian PEOPLE have unclenched their fists, dear leader, now unclench your ass and help them!


He has to get out of the corner fetal position and pull his thumb out of his mouth.

304 AuntAcid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:37:03am

re: #268 kansas

Thanks for that, ya fargin bastige. : )
PS
Dow down 200, time to bail?

buy low, sell high…

305 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:37:06am

re: #287 reine.de.tout

From PersianKiwi:

we honour and thank the people of Iran and especially the hackers. Baseej have guns we have brains. #Iranelection

and

confirmed - khamenaie website hacked - the dictator of iran. #Iranelection


That’s BIG-they’re going after the cretins who are really in charge.

306 Dave the.....  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:37:18am

I wonder if even the Iranians would do mass shootings. Now word would get out. Especially with a somewhat civilized/westernized society (this isn’t Saudi Arabia).

Local news interviewed several Iranian students who are going to college in the Twin Cities. These people (mostly women) aren’t going to obey what their masters in Iran tell them to do.

308 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:37:31am

re: #303 soxfan4life


Sucks to be in that position when you are about to get p’wnd…

309 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:37:37am

I am gonna be sick… I just heard about death of protesters in Tehran. I feel awful

America, Please help us

310 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:37:37am

Wow
PersianKiwi:
thousands of people on rooftops and balconyes now - allah akbar - death to dictator. #Iranelection

311 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:37:56am

re: #233 Last Mohican

Thank you for presenting a reasonable argument. I may not agree that all those items are bad or that the alternatives are without risk, but it is certainly a reasonble argument. From every other conservative source though, i’m hearing different versions of “obama won’t make a statement because he’s looking for polls, he’s stupid, etc… .

312 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #299 reine.de.tout

from Iran09
ppl burned down the basij station around the azadi sq! #wewin #iranelection

I think this is the pic

313 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:07am

re: #304 AuntAcid

buy low, sell high…

sooooo 2008 :)

314 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:15am

Reports coming at me fast now

15 dead in Tehran

315 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:16am

re: #303 soxfan4life

He has to get out of the corner fetal position and pull his thumb out of his mouth ass.

There, fixed that for ya!

316 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:19am

re: #240 pingjockey

After seeing the demographic winston posted, 70% of the population under 30, they don’t want to live in a stifling theocracy. We need to help these folks out, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out a way to do it without playing into the mad mullhas hands.

A very simple start, a statement from the WH.

Throughout history people have sought to throw off the bonds of tyranny and embrace liberty and self determination. 233 years ago we declared our liberty from tyranny. Since then more an more peoples and nations have joined us.

The people of Iran have the natural right of people everywhere, to live in liberty, have self determination and a government that serves the people.

We will always support people who demand their right to liberty and self determination.

Encourages the people of Iran, and gives notice to the Mullahs.

317 damnyanks  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:26am

CNN guy Trita called the “Supreme Leader” not so supreme. That is huge.

318 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:56am

Pics from Iran

flickr.com

319 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:38:57am

re: #312 Killgore Trout

I think this is the pic

appears so.

320 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:11am

OT, but the EU tells the Israelis that Netanyahu’s speech isn’t enough.

EU ministers labeled Netanyahu’s speech “insufficient.” In order to upgrade ties, “we need a few steps more,” said Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn.


Someone should draw a cartoon of the EU trying to lead Israel out the window or over a cliff, saying “a few steps more”.

321 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:13am

I wonder how many countries have “spooks” pushing buttons in Iran right about now?

322 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:18am

re: #316 jcm
RWR or either Bush is not in the WH! Damnit.

323 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:23am

re: #317 damnyanks

Trita Parsi is an agent of the Iranian regime in the USA. He is bad….

324 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:38am

I have been wondering lately if all the turmoil in Iran will help make things less volatile in Iraq, with the mullahs and the RG busy in-country. Not a happy thought either way.

325 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:42am

1:24 PM ET — Photo. A photo allegedly of one of people shot at the rally. No confirmation on this.

326 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:44am

re: #304 AuntAcid

buy low, sell high…

My investment guy says buy. Discourages selling. Can’t time the market you know. /

327 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:50am

re: #252 jcm

You wouldn’t even speak up in support of those seeking freedom and self determination.

The MORAL imperative here is more important than the political one.

Sometimes you have to do the RIGHT thing.

I might, but the President of the United States better have some idea of what is going on before he speaks.

328 philip  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:39:57am

I wouldn’t read too much into these protests. Sure, the participants are numerous, but to me this is much like our 2004 elections, with progressive residents of the cities voting overwhelmingly for Kerry and the rural religious conservatives voting overwhelmingly for Bush.

In the U.S., these demographics are closely split. In Iran, about 60% lives in the conservative rural areas and 30% lives in the Jewish-friendly urban areas.

So naturally we are going to see protest in the cities but until there is solid proof that the election was “stolen,” I think it would be wise to read up on Iranian demographics and domestic politics.

329 sevoguy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:40:00am

Hopefully it’s a revolution in the making. Some Shit’ts from Iraq need to go to Iran and do a “democratic insurgency.” I’m sure the average iranian is sick and tired of footing the bill for the mullahs. Just one spark in needed and the people of Iran will set the mullahs on fire.

330 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:40:30am

re: #297 DisturbedEma

The Iranian PEOPLE have unclenched their fists, dear leader, now unclench your ass and help them!

Many Americans feel that this should be the top-rated post of the week.

331 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:04am

I can’t pull myself away from the twitter updates.
If I go overboard and ya’ll want me to quit posting some of the comments I see there, then somebody just yell at me to stop, I will NOT be offended.

332 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:09am

re: #328 philip
We didn’t have people shot in the streets, nor did the gov’t try to shut down communications.

333 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:18am

re: #309 winston06

I am gonna be sick… I just heard about death of protesters in Tehran. I feel awful

America, Please help us

Now would be a good time for us to be thankful that we can sit around here and bitch about our president, without having to worry about being shot by his thugs.

And it would also be a good time for us to remember the courage of those who, like the Iranian demonstrators who are dying now, fought and died so that we could have this freedom.

334 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:20am

re: #235 Gus 802

Silence from Barack Obama. His personal goals apparently exceed those of the nation and those seeking freedom in Iran.

Many speak of a revolt in North Korea. If faced with the same kind of protests the response from Barack Obama would be the same: silence.

Which personal goals?

335 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:29am

re: #328 philip

I think it would be wise to read up on Iranian demographics and domestic politics.

You haven’t been following the story, have you?

336 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #328 philip

I will self censor, but will say this…you are an ignorant person in matters of this region…this many people in this place at this time, with the “leadership” and the danger? You compare that to the US?
Apples meet oranges

337 damnyanks  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:34am

re: #323 winston06

Trita Parsi is an agent of the Iranian regime in the USA. He is bad….

He might be winston but his words if said in Iran would get him killed.

338 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:36am

re: #276 winston06

AP confirms death of protesters in Iran

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

Winston, can you tell us anything about the “voluntary militia”? I’ve seen photographs identifying them as the group that was attacking the Tehran students dormitories.

339 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #181 soxfan4life

Do the ones who worked hard and saved to ensure their golden years would be enjoyable deserve to be fucked with? What the asshat should do is a housecleaning on the gimme girls collecting SSI and SSDI for bogus claims. AARP was a huge supporter of 0bama due to the SS privitization which would have 0 effect on current seniors and if they fell for 0’s false promises so blissfully due to it they deserve the shaft more than our children and grandchildren do.


You’re ignorance is truly stunning, ya know that? Most people on SSDI CANNOT WORK - LIKE ME. And I paid into SOCIAL SECURITY OVER $100,000 more than I’ll live to take out of it and Medicare is already costing me more than Cobra’d Private Insurance.
I hate fucking AARP - they betrayed their consitutency but THEY didn’t take down everyone’s 402k’s, they didn’t push (successfully) for the Bankruptcy Court in Chrylser to find Bond holders - heretofor prior lien holders on assets as secondary to Obama misuse of TARP money to support his pals in the UAW - his Justice Department did his dirty work for him; so we’ll have to “fuck” all those relying on the Indiana Pension Plan too, and the three other pension plans that fought this with them, and since most state laws REQUIRE state funded or mandated retirement plans to be in safe and secure investments, they were almost ALL in Bonds of one entity or another.
So all people over the age of 55 or so now deserve, after a lifetime of work, and paying into social security and into Pension plans, deserve to be fucked?
Let’s make members of Congress and the President pay for their own goddamned health coverage - they couldn’t afford the platinum quality health care they get now either for free
Many of us do lead lives which depend on social security - without it we die. Period.
Is that you’re idea of a good plan?

340 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:54am

re: #328 philip

I wouldn’t read too much into these protests. Sure, the participants are numerous, but to me this is much like our 2004 elections, with progressive residents of the cities voting overwhelmingly for Kerry and the rural religious conservatives voting overwhelmingly for Bush.

In the U.S., these demographics are closely split. In Iran, about 60% lives in the conservative rural areas and 30% lives in the Jewish-friendly urban areas.

So naturally we are going to see protest in the cities but until there is solid proof that the election was “stolen,” I think it would be wise to read up on Iranian demographics and domestic politics.

Sure, but a few Bolsheviks can still turn the trick.

341 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:41:57am

re: #331 reine.de.tout

I can’t pull myself away from the twitter updates.
If I go overboard and ya’ll want me to quit posting some of the comments I see there, then somebody just yell at me to stop, I will NOT be offended.

Don’t you dare stop!

And I am quite serious.

342 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:06am

I pray for the protesters safety, but if this goes on much longer I can envision some of the security forces saying

“hey ,,, thats my brother/sister/uncle/cousin in that crowd. Maybe I should go protect them and turn on the mullahs”


I HOPE I HOPE I HOPE!

343 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:06am

re: #337 damnyanks

nah… he is hired by the mullahs to say these to naive Americans

344 KenJen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:09am

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned here and I have seen anything on it in American MSM but Mousavi’s wife played a huge role in his campaign.

345 JustABill  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:09am

re: #309 winston06

I am gonna be sick… I just heard about death of protesters in Tehran. I feel awful

America, Please help us

Where are you from, Winston? I’d love to see America help, but I fear anything we do would be conter-productive…

346 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:10am

Maybe if someone were to tell 0bama that the unrest in Iran is taking the spotlight off of his healthcae reform it might make him speakout on the situation.

347 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:18am

re: #331 reine.de.tout


I can’t pull myself away from the twitter updates.
If I go overboard and ya’ll want me to quit posting some of the comments I see there, then somebody just yell at me to stop, I will NOT be offended.


Please keep it up!

348 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:28am

re: #235 Gus 802

Yes, because explicit support from America is really going to help swing the balance of power in Iran away from the Islamist crazies. You do realize that the current government in Iran stems directly from the U.S. fucking around with Iranian domestic politics in the 1970’s.

I know you really, really want to blame Obama for anything and everything he does, and doesn’t do. But for now, doing nothing is exactly what we need to be doing. Any appearance of America being involved in the current situation would do nothing but screw things up.

349 Syrah  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:28am

With blood being spilled, this is the moment. This is the point where the tide will turn one way or the other.

350 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:39am

Somebody’s facebook photo album, 20 photos (lick “next” upper right of the photo box to scroll thru them).

351 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:42am

re: #338 Wendya

Brown Shirts…. hired thugs, armed to the teeth and ready to die for Jihadi causes

352 AuntAcid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:42:51am

re: #295 Leonidas Hoplite

Thank the Founders for the Second Amendment…as long as we still have it.

yeah, but a gun without ammo is a paper weight

353 Equable  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:43:02am

THIS amazing photo says it all.

Image: i29_19360635.jpg

354 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:43:04am

re: #328 philip

Piss off, with all respect.

I take that back, the respect part, just fucking piss off!

355 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:43:33am

RT @persiankiwi twitpic.com pictures of killings in tehran today. #Iranelection

356 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:44:10am

re: #350 reine.de.tout

Somebody’s facebook photo album, 20 photos (lick “next” upper right of the photo box to scroll thru them).

OOPs.
Here’s the link.

357 Ben Hur  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:44:13am

Sweet-Tea Party?

Partially, your tax dollars at work.

Bush policies coming to fruition?

358 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:44:18am

re: #334 Flyers1974

Which personal goals?

His own narcissistic agenda for America and the world. “Dreams of my Father” and other Oprah-styled milquetoast “idealism.”

359 Syrah  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:44:24am

re: #328 philip

Get bent.

360 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:44:29am

re: #351 winston06
Is it hired thugs or the IRG in civilian clothes? I guess it doesn’t matter, a thug is a thug.

361 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:44:35am

re: #335 Killgore Trout

You haven’t been following the story, have you?

He has, but his “sources” are The Daily Show and The Colbert Report

362 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:44:59am

re: #328 philip

I wouldn’t read too much into these protests. Sure, the participants are numerous, but to me this is much like our 2004 elections, with progressive residents of the cities voting overwhelmingly for Kerry and the rural religious conservatives voting overwhelmingly for Bush.

In the U.S., these demographics are closely split. In Iran, about 60% lives in the conservative rural areas and 30% lives in the Jewish-friendly urban areas.

So naturally we are going to see protest in the cities but until there is solid proof that the election was “stolen,” I think it would be wise to read up on Iranian demographics and domestic politics.

Dude, virtual downding. When has solid proof ever stood in the way of a revolution, good or bad? The goal is to win the fight, not the argument. That comes later, with the whining.

363 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:45:00am

re: #353 Equable

I saw a report yesterday that the guy wasn’t a cop but an Italian journalist who was with the cops. There’s video of the incident out there somewhere.

364 solomonpanting  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:45:16am

re: #328 philip

In the U.S., these demographics are closely split. In Iran, about 60% lives in the conservative rural areas and 30% lives in the Jewish-friendly urban areas.

Duke, is that you?

365 pat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:45:40am

Carl In Jerusalem has a interesting post that suggests Dennis Ross may be fired as envoy to Iran. This is very disturbing. Ross was one of the few picks by Obama that actually had a clue. He is intelligent and competent. Read the link.

366 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:45:59am

re: #297 DisturbedEma

Fail.

367 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:15am

nateckennedy RT @StopAhmadi NEW PIC killings in Tehran twitpic.com #iranelection

368 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:15am

scottishbuzzsaw, I saw your upding, you must be reading, haven’t seen you post in a while, hope things are well for you!

369 Equable  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:19am

re: #363 Killgore Trout

I saw a report yesterday that the guy wasn’t a cop but an Italian journalist who was with the cops. There’s video of the incident out there somewhere.

Thanks Killgore, next time I’ll do a bit more research. Still, he looks like a policeman and the crowd isn’t attacking him after seeing that he is injured.

At any rate, thanks for the correction sir.

370 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:19am

re: #356 reine.de.tout

OOPs.
Here’s the link.

I almost understand “BUS STOP” in English on a sign, but “POLICE” in English on riot armor?

Not to take away from the photos, but it just struck me funny.

371 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:19am

re: #328 philip

So naturally we are going to see protest in the cities but until there is solid proof that the election was “stolen,” I think it would be wise to read up on Iranian demographics and domestic politics.

They had a record high turnout in this election and the Interior ministry announced the results within hours…. now considering that they use paper ballots that must be hand counted and verified, this smells like a week old fish left out in the sun.

372 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:27am

re: #349 Syrah

With blood being spilled, this is the moment. This is the point where the tide will turn one way or the other.


Absolutely. 24 hours to lose, one week to win.

373 damnyanks  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:58am

re: #351 winston06

Brown Shirts…. hired thugs, armed to the teeth and ready to die for Jihadi causes

Reading your blog brings chills up my spine. Keep the updates and info flowing.

374 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:06am

re: #328 philip

If you’ve been following all the links posted here, you’ve seen a lot of evidence that the Iranian election was “stolen.” One, for example, posted screenshots from election updates in Iran, showing Mousavi’s vote tally going down, rather than up.

That’s about as much response as you’re going to get from me, after your mildly insulting comment suggesting that Bush’s favorable polling in rural areas was only because of “religious conservatives.” And your use of the euphemism “progressive” to mean “left-wing.”

375 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:10am

re: #297 DisturbedEma

With military action or a statement? And if a statement, will that statement help the protesters defeat the government?

376 realwest  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:23am

Can’t take anymore of this right now.
Y’all have a great day and pray or at least send best wishes to and for the people of Iran.
I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road.

377 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:28am

re: #348 drcordell

Yes, because explicit support from America is really going to help swing the balance of power in Iran away from the Islamist crazies. You do realize that the current government in Iran stems directly from the U.S. fucking around with Iranian domestic politics in the 1970’s.

I know you really, really want to blame Obama for anything and everything he does, and doesn’t do. But for now, doing nothing is exactly what we need to be doing. Any appearance of America being involved in the current situation would do nothing but screw things up.

GAZE

378 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:34am

re: #331 reine.de.tout

Please continue.

379 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:40am

re: #370 OldLineTexan

I almost understand “BUS STOP” in English on a sign, but “POLICE” in English on riot armor?

Not to take away from the photos, but it just struck me funny.

Mebbe to keep any furriners in line.

380 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:58am

re: #346 soxfan4life

Maybe if someone were to tell 0bama that the unrest in Iran is taking the spotlight off of his healthcae reform it might make him speakout on the situation.

Øbama wants no spotlight shining on his healthcare reform plan. The light shows the flaws. Remember what happened last time America looked? He needs get this through, just like the Stimulus, before anyone reads it.

381 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:59am

re: #288 kansas

You know, what trumps technology is a goon with an AK 47.

You got it. Bullies, thugs, car burners and bombers… saw it in the ’70s in Europe. They didn’t stop it, it cowed them, and now ugliness is afoot. Enforce laws. Way more important than technology.

382 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:03am

re: #340 itellu3times

Sure, but a few Bolsheviks can still turn the trick.

Any organized group that’s willing to kill and die can do a whole hell of a lot. And it doesn’t have to be very large.

Just like the Bolsheviks.

383 Gearhead  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:06am

re: #331 reine.de.tout

I can’t pull myself away from the twitter updates.
If I go overboard and ya’ll want me to quit posting some of the comments I see there, then somebody just yell at me to stop, I will NOT be offended.

Keep it up!

Passing thought here: Twitter is an excellent example of capitalism making the world a better place.

384 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:07am

Just in…. People are marching towards KHAMENEI’s House/HQ in northern Tehran

385 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:09am

re: #378 Last Mohican

Please continue.

Several “please continues”.
I’m heading upthread.

386 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:17am

re: #370 OldLineTexan

I almost understand “BUS STOP” in English on a sign, but “POLICE” in English on riot armor?

Not to take away from the photos, but it just struck me funny.

If it makes money or takes money, it’s iin English, the world over.

387 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:28am

re: #373 damnyanks

you can donate to my coffee fund if you like my blog. thnx

388 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:37am

re: #327 Nevergiveup

I might, but the President of the United States better have some idea of what is going on before he speaks.

If he doesn’t he needs to kick ass at Foggy Bottom and the Puzzle Palace.

Obama knows what is going on. He’s sitting on the fence, Biden let it out yesterday.

They have doubts, but don’t want to muck up the talks with the Mullahs about the nukes.

But guess what, the Mullahs don’t want to talk nukes, just string us along until they have them.

The events in Iran are a game changer, big time. The youth look to west, a truly democratic Iran won’t be a threat.

If Obama wanted a fucking “legacy” he’d be given a “tear down this wall” speech about Iran.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to make a real difference in the world. We’ve got a Alinksyite Community Organizer who does not get it.

389 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:41am

re: #388 jcm

Obamble s probably upset his mullahd buddies r under attack in Iran

390 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:42am

re: #370 OldLineTexan

I almost understand “BUS STOP” in English on a sign, but “POLICE” in English on riot armor?

Not to take away from the photos, but it just struck me funny.

Makes sense, actually. The gov’t knows that the world is getting photos/ videso out. Having the “police” there makes it lok like small isolated protests/ problems

Having the ARMY there shows a much worse problem

391 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:49am

To all those blaming the administration for not doing or saying enough in this situation:

It is in the nature of revolutions (when they go beyond protests that can be put down with a show of force within a week) that they must be fought and won by the revolutionaries.

With a vast imbalance of power in place (cell phones and Twitter against machine guns and tanks), cheering on the side that is likely to lose, no matter how righteous it makes you feel, is likely to make it worse for the losers in the end. They can then be accused of being foreign agents as well as dissidents. See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing.

Even if the would-be revolutionaries gain the upper hand, they will have to keep it. What are we going to do, parachute in the 82nd Airborne?

Grow up.

392 Gearhead  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:55am

re: #370 OldLineTexan

I almost understand “BUS STOP” in English on a sign, but “POLICE” in English on riot armor?

Not to take away from the photos, but it just struck me funny.

I noticed the same thing yesterday. I guess it gives the Mullahs an out in case they need to claim the whole thing was staged in a back lot in Hollywood.

393 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:10am

re: #339 realwest


I think we are more in agreement than you think, the ones that need to be reviewed are the welfare moms who jumped on the SSI and SSDI after Clinton’s welfare reform. I don’t want to see anyone who has worked for their entire life and paid into the system lose out, but there are far too many cases out there of people getting SSDI for alcoholism and drug addiction. My ex wife did it for PTSD and in my opinion insulted our many vets who do suffer from it all in the name of not working for a living. After I got custody of my son it took me almost a year to get SSDI paymments to her stopped that she was getting for my son, who is healthy as a horse. Please accept my apology it was clearly not my intention to upset you. If this doesn’t clear up my thoughts then we can revisit it at another time after you are feeling better.

394 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:13am

re: #362 haakondahl

Dude, virtual downding. When has solid proof ever stood in the way of a revolution, good or bad? The goal is to win the fight, not the argument. That comes later, with the whining.

Yeah, but does it count as a revolution if they are revoluting from one genocideman to a dittoman?

395 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:26am

re: #314 winston06

Reports coming at me fast now

15 dead in Tehran

{winston06}

Praying your friends, relatives, family, acquaintances are safe.

396 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:31am

re: #300 subsailor68

LOL!

On the Dow, I was taught that the key to success is to buy low and sell high.

Oops, not too many opportunities to do that lately - unless you’re a day trader with balls of titanium. Sigh.

Gee, if only there were a way to sell now and buy later. (That was how I finally understood the basis of short positions).

397 flyovercountry  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:51:07am

No matter how this ends, for now, Pandora’s box has been opened. Tis is an awful lot of unhappy people who now see that they are not alone. I have had numerous people in law enforcement tell me that any law needs 90% compliane to be enforceable. I don’t know if this is true, but I do know that guns can’t control an entire population. Jimmy Carter’s disasterous misstep may be correcting itself.

398 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:51:36am
399 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:09am

re: #377 Gus 802

It’s much easier to call me a troll than say something substantive. Read any number of other comments on this same thread. American intervention would do nothing but strengthen the hand of the Islamofascists. If they can tie the riots in the streets to American meddling, they can ferociously destroy the opposition by painting them as American puppets. This must remain a wholly Iranian undertaking for it to succeed.

But by all means continue screaming about Obama’s cowardice for not embracing the protesters.

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:23am

re: #173 Land Shark

God bless the Iranian people, they will need it. The Mullahs will do whatever it takes to stay in power, and will use any methods up to and including genocide.

I’ve already heard several in the MSM comparing this to the 2000 Presidential election situation in Florida! Talk about clueless schmucks, really, anyone who gets their news solely from them is completely uninformed.

You mean you don’t remember the millions of people marching—the gunfire…? It’s seared into my soul.

//

401 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:27am

re: #394 Sunlight

Yeah, but does it count as a revolution if they are revoluting from one genocideman to a dittoman?

Remember, this sort of thing very seldom limits itself to the original grounds of the protest.

402 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:45am

re: #358 Gus 802

His own narcissistic agenda for America and the world. “Dreams of my Father” and other Oprah-styled milquetoast “idealism.”

OK, you’ve named a book, a celeberty, and a Republican talking point about Obama. I understand.

403 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:08am

re: #391 Cato the Elder

See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing

There’s where you went off the rail

“Western Reaction” to Tianemen WHILE IT WAS HAPPENING was non-existant, by and large. The “reaction” occured only well after video and photos started leaking out. Only AFTER the scope of the crackdown was known, not DURING , as now!

404 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:36am

re: #332 pingjockey

We didn’t have people shot in the streets, nor did the gov’t try to shut down communications.

Well no, but I don’t think that was Philip’s point.

I think he only meant to say that the people in the cities, where the riots are taking place, are the ones who voted overwhelmingly for Mousavi. If a city-dweller voted for Mousavi, and so did everyone else he knows, then his perception that the election was stolen may be biased. Because, like the shallow, self-centered, pseudointellectual “progressives” that inhabit many American cities, they may be prone to making sweeping generalizations about the rural population, whom they characterize as “religious conservatives” who are inferior to them, and they can’t understand how anyone could have any beliefs that are different from theirs.

Is that what you meant, Philip?

405 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:52am

Obviously photoshopped
look for the same guy, dark hair and white shirt thousands of times in the video.
also the woman in the headscarf also repeatedly inserted
///

406 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:05am

re: #402 Flyers1974

OK, you’ve named a book, a celeberty, and a Republican talking point about Obama. I understand.

Should you be at Daily Kos or the Democratic Underground?

407 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:14am

re: #398 buzzsawmonkey

No, it doesn’t.

The US had absolutely nothing to do with the current Iranian government coming into power in the 1970s. The current government came into power because many Iranians were opposed to the Shah, whom the US supported—but the Shah had been in power for decades prior to the mullahs taking over in the 1970s.

Looks to me like you are a youngster who who has telescoped the 1950s and the 1970s.

Michael Totten recommends Amir Taheri’s book “The Persion Night: Iran From Khomeini to Ahmadinejad”. It is available on Amazon. Also, unabridged audio available on audible.com and itunes. I’m listening now… Also, Michael Totten is liveblogging the Iranian election aftermath.

408 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:42am

re: #404 Last Mohican
OK,

409 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:44am

re: #403 sattv4u2

See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing

There’s where you went off the rail

“Western Reaction” to Tianemen WHILE IT WAS HAPPENING was non-existant, by and large. The “reaction” occured only well after video and photos started leaking out. Only AFTER the scope of the crackdown was known, not DURING , as now!

My point exactly.

410 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:51am

re: #368 rightside

scottishbuzzsaw, I saw your upding, you must be reading, haven’t seen you post in a while, hope things are well for you!

{rightside} All’s well. Can’t take my eyes off Iran. It’s been a long time coming.

Hope all is well with you, too…

411 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:52am

Confirmed - protester shot dead in Tehran

canada.com

412 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:56am

re: #348 drcordell

Gee, two fucking Democrat Presidents fucking up Iran, both following disastrous domestic Socialist policies.

Wanna rethink your stupidity?

413 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:55:02am

re: #228 kansas

I’m getting a little tired of 53% of the voting population in one election cramming shit down everyone else’s throat.

You got a better plan?

414 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:03am

The riot police looked like modern gladiators, muscular and menacing with camouflaged uniforms, black boots, black bulletproof vests and black shielded helmets. They rode in pairs. One drove while the other wielded a club or a baton. They swarmed crowds of rowdy protesters in packs of about 20, beating anyone who got in their way.

For some reason that reminded me of the scene in Dr. Zhivago, where the cavalry charges the demonstrators in the streets, slashing with their sabers as they ride them down.

I was 15 when I saw that movie, and I’ve never forgotten that scene.

God bless these young people.

415 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:04am

re: #375 Flyers1974

With military action or a statement? And if a statement, will that statement help the protesters defeat the government?


Start with the statement that supports the election process and the committment to non violence…his usual…but this is what HE asked for…are you saying he did not have a plan in case they DID unclench…

416 avanti  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:30am

re: #391 Cato the Elder

To all those blaming the administration for not doing or saying enough in this situation:

It is in the nature of revolutions (when they go beyond protests that can be put down with a show of force within a week) that they must be fought and won by the revolutionaries.

With a vast imbalance of power in place (cell phones and Twitter against machine guns and tanks), cheering on the side that is likely to lose, no matter how righteous it makes you feel, is likely to make it worse for the losers in the end. They can then be accused of being foreign agents as well as dissidents. See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing.

Even if the would-be revolutionaries gain the upper hand, they will have to keep it. What are we going to do, parachute in the 82nd Airborne?

Grow up.

Any obvious involvement will remind the Iranians of the CIA installed Shaw and be counterproductive. The most that could be done is to remind the Iranian leaders to respect the rights of peaceful protesters and to use restraint. I agree if the revolution fails that the hardliners would use western interference as a excuse to clamp down even harder on the population. If a statement is made, the POTUS’s advisers had better parse every word carefully.

417 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:44am

re: #401 Dianna

Remember, this sort of thing very seldom limits itself to the original grounds of the protest.

Hopefully not. But until they start hollering for some of the excluded folks, I’m thinking it will come out as a tempertantrum leading right back to finishing the nukes and launching them. Maybe that’s the plan. Letting the youngsters blow off steam. I’m hoping the youngsters are getting enough online to realize the predicament with this Mousavi guy.

418 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:06am

Violence certainly seems to be on the upswing on both sides. Scary stuff. Prayers for the protestors.

419 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:32am

re: #391 Cato the Elder

Ummmm, K, so glad France and Spain did not do this back around the 1770s…

420 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:55am

re: #414 subsailor68

Oops, wrong thread. Sigh.

421 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:58:05am

If regime resorts to violence, then we can hope it will be the end of it for the mullahs

422 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:58:19am

re: #409 Cato the Elder

My point exactly.

no it wasn’t. Your point “exactly” is that we canNOT do anything becasue we did not do anything in 1989.

I told you that during Tianeman, we didn’t have any outrage AT THAE TIME, only after

Now ,, we are witnessing it LIVE and in REAL TIME

423 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:58:42am

re: #399 drcordell

I’m hearing so much about Democrats blaming Bush. Yet the Republicans are absolutely baffled by Obama. I’ve heard the word “narcissist” more in the past couple months than the past ten years. The Republican platform seems to be “Obama is a narcissist.”

424 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:22am

re: #409 Cato the Elder

My point exactly.

re: #422 sattv4u2

no it wasn’t. Your point “exactly” is that we canNOT do anything becasue we did not do anything in 1989.

I told you that during Tianeman, we didn’t have any outrage AT THAE TIME, only after

Now ,, we are witnessing it LIVE and in REAL TIME

Followed by the gartuitous GROW UP shot

425 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:22am

re: #384 winston06

Just in…. People are marching towards KHAMENEI’s House/HQ in northern Tehran

re: #394 Sunlight

Yeah, but does it count as a revolution if they are revoluting from one genocideman to a dittoman?

Iin this case, I prefer the Devil we don’t know. And as an old joke goes, who knows? The horse could learn to sing.

426 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:32am
427 Syrah  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:55am

re: #384 winston06

Just in…. People are marching towards KHAMENEI’s House/HQ in northern Tehran

They must not stop.

428 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:02am

re: #398 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, we meddled with Iranian politics in the 1950’s as well. The point remains that we were clearly involved in Iranian politics well throughout the 1970’s with our support of the Shah. But again, back to the central point: the Iranian regime will use any U.S. support of the protests to paint this uprising as a U.S. backed revolution. And that will not do anything but legitimize crushing this “revolution” or whatever you wish to call it at this point.

429 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:15am

re: #426 buzzsawmonkey

George Bernard?

Irwin?

Rick?

Or are you perhaps referring to the Shah?

oh goody ,, SHOW TUNES!

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:27am

re: #352 AuntAcid

yeah, but a gun without ammo is a paper weight

Nonsense. A gun without ammo is still quite a good club.

431 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:43am

re: #427 Syrah

They must not BE stopped.

ftfy

432 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:27am

re: #368 rightside

Excellent, saw that upding as well, that tells me everything is good (as can be) Anyway, take care, hope you get time to post sometime!

433 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:35am

I think the regime has lost the control of the situation in #IranElection riots. #Tehran looks like 1979 revolution

434 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:56am

follow my updates here twitter.com or here thespiritofman.blogspot.com

435 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:02:07am

re: #425 haakondahl

Iin this case, I prefer the Devil we don’t know. And as an old joke goes, who knows? The horse could learn to sing.

The Devil we don’t know in this case will take pressure off the govt from the youngsters just long enough to achieve their final solution. It would need to be a different Devil in order to count as anything but a diversionary tactic by the mullahmen.

436 avanti  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:02:56am

re: #426 buzzsawmonkey

George Bernard?

Irwin?

Rick?

Or are you perhaps referring to the Shah?

You figured that out, better then my spell check did.

437 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:03am

re: #434 winston06

follow my updates here [Link: twitter.com…] or here [Link: thespiritofman.blogspot.com…]

Thank you!

438 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:10am

re: #410 scottishbuzzsaw

oh damn! there you are. I was afraid you couldn’t post, just wanted to make sure everything is alright. Watching with great interest here as well! Didn’t mean to interrupt your regularly scheduled Persian revolution!

I’m great, hope you are too, and thanks for the reply!

439 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:44am

re: #406 Gus 802

Should you be at Daily Kos or the Democratic Underground?

So I take it you think your remarks about the book, the celebrety and your partisan talking point shed light on this situation?

440 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:04:31am

Reports come from Tehran indicate that violence is through the roof now. it is bad in Tehran

441 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:06:00am

re: #423 Flyers1974

I’m hearing so much about Democrats blaming Bush. Yet the Republicans are absolutely baffled by Obama. I’ve heard the word “narcissist” more in the past couple months than the past ten years. The Republican platform seems to be “Obama is a narcissist.”

Yeah, he only credit the robust debate in Iran to his Cairo speech……..

442 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:06:40am

re: #306 Dave the…..

The regime has already killed tens of thousands of Iranian people.
They routinely imprison and torture political opponents.
They sent battalions of children in to clear minefields during the Iran-Iraq war.

So yes, the regime will kill these protesters.

443 philip  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:17am

re: #404 Last Mohican

Well no, but I don’t think that was Philip’s point.

I think he only meant to say that the people in the cities, where the riots are taking place, are the ones who voted overwhelmingly for Mousavi. If a city-dweller voted for Mousavi, and so did everyone else he knows, then his perception that the election was stolen may be biased.

Is that what you meant, Philip?

Yes, this exactly. (I removed your point bashing progressives like myself though, since it defeats your whatever point you intended to make about ignorance.)

I am kinda shocked at the negative reaction my comments caused, perhaps because here are following an inaccurate narrative that Ahmadinejad is unpopular. He is in fact very popular among almost all demographic sets, including young people 18-24. The only set his rival led was in progressive students, graduates, and the wealthy.

Independent polling indicates that Ahmadinejad was leading his opponent just a couple weeks before the election.

I stand by my statement that this is a lot like the 2004 USA result, in that the religious and conservative rural Iran, about 60% of the population, turned out for the religious conservative Ahmadinejad, and Mousavi picked up the urban and progressive vote.

I urge those with open minds to read the following article.
washingtonpost.com

444 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:23am
445 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:52am

re: #416 avanti

Any obvious involvement will remind the Iranians of the CIA installed Shaw and be counterproductive. The most that could be done is to remind the Iranian leaders to respect the rights of peaceful protesters and to use restraint. I agree if the revolution fails that the hardliners would use western interference as a excuse to clamp down even harder on the population. If a statement is made, the POTUS’s advisers had better parse every word carefully.

A Reagan-esque speech extolling the natural right of all mankind to freedom and respect for the will of the people as expressed through elections.
It would offer succor for the people, while offering no arguable points to the regime.

Please recall that even if the current administration remains silent, it will be blamed; reviled and castigated by the regime because that’s the only product they offer. On the other hand, just a SHRED for the people there would go a long way, and the regime can’t very well argue with freedom and elections, when they say they are free and that they won the election.

446 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:10am

re: #439 Flyers1974

So I take it you think your remarks about the book, the celebrety and your partisan talking point shed light on this situation?

By celebrity I assume you’re talking about Barack Obama?

447 philip  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:00am

re: #364 solomonpanting

Duke, is that you?

I’m Jewish. Wanna try again?

448 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:09am

Shame on Obama for not speaking in support of the Iranian people

449 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:12am

re: #428 drcordell

Yes, we meddled with Iranian politics in the 1950’s as well. The point remains that we were clearly involved in Iranian politics well throughout the 1970’s with our support of the Shah. But again, back to the central point: the Iranian regime will use any U.S. support of the protests to paint this uprising as a U.S. backed revolution. And that will not do anything but legitimize crushing this “revolution” or whatever you wish to call it at this point.

Our meddling in the ‘50’s prevent Iran from becoming a Soviet client and give the Sovs control of mideast oil. It also would have vastly reset the table regarding Israels ability to survive ‘67 and ‘73.

450 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:47am

RT @iranbaan reports ppl r on rooftops chanting anti-regime slogans

451 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:17:51am

re: #435 Sunlight

The Devil we don’t know in this case will take pressure off the govt from the youngsters just long enough to achieve their final solution. It would need to be a different Devil in order to count as anything but a diversionary tactic by the mullahmen.

Well, then I guess it’s is hopeless. If you can’t have everything, then you prefer nothing?

452 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:05am

jimsciuttoABC: #iranelection Photos show at least 3 people shot and injured. AP photog confirms to ABC he saw one person killed

453 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:39am

re: #450 winston06

RT @iranbaan reports ppl r on rooftops chanting anti-regime slogans

Wow! I didn’t realize you were TRANSLATING twitters from Iran! Thank you!

454 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:55am

rt @iranbaan says ppl’s slogan s: kill, kill those who killed my brother #iranelection

455 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:22:54am

re: #453 haakondahl

thats what I have been doing in the past 3 days

456 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:03am

rt @iranbaan says ppl in west of #Tehran r out in force & marching #IranElection

457 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #444 buzzsawmonkey

Khomeini, and the current regime, came into power because he and his allies opposed both the Shah and Iran’s relationship with the US.

Exactly what I’ve been saying my friend. It’s not about the direct impact of our involvement, it’s about the appearance of our involvement. Allowing the anti-Ahmadinejad protesters to be labeled as “U.S. puppets” is only going to legitimize the Theocracies attempts to stifle dissent. Allowing this revolution to occur organically as a purely Iranian development is necessary. When the dust settles, we can begin to insert ourselves into the situation. But not right now.

458 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:25am
459 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:38am

re: #451 haakondahl

Well, then I guess it’s is hopeless. If you can’t have everything, then you prefer nothing?

I prefer not to protract a street action that is just giving the mullahs more time to launch. If either candidate would support/be ok with nuking Israel, then we need to cut through the BS and stay focused on the nuke program, not the romanticism of street protests calling for another round of the current set-up.

460 HippieforLife  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:23am

re: #96 Nevergiveup

The President of the United States should know what he is talking about.

Oh, wait…

461 apachegunner  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:55am

re: #456 winston06

rt @iranbaan says ppl in west of #Tehran r out in force & marching #IranElection


Thanks Winston, be safe

462 nobs  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:11am

re: #423 Flyers1974

I’m hearing so much about Democrats blaming Bush. Yet the Republicans are absolutely baffled by Obama. I’ve heard the word “narcissist” more in the past couple months than the past ten years. The Republican platform seems to be “Obama is a narcissist.”

No he is a dickhead.

Your NIC is funny, Flyers74. That was the first Stanley Cup I every watched, I was ten.
They were called the Broad Street Bullies for a reason.
You seem too much of a pussy to have that NIC, and yes I’m from the area!

463 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:30am

re: #458 buzzsawmonkey

What you seem to miss is that the protesters, in rejecting the mullahs, are also saying in effect that they are sick and tired of Iran’s hostile posture towards the rest of the world—including the US. They are rejecting the mullahocracy. So where is the downside to supporting them?

You assume that all of Iran shares the same mindset of the protesters. The mullahs cannot crush the protests right now, because they are completely Iranian in nature. If they brutally suppress this public outcry, they risk alienating those Iranians who chose to support Ahmadinejad or have thus far refrained from protesting. The Mullahs and Ahmadinejad are looking for anything they can to discredit these protests, to attempt to label them as “un-Iranian” just as politicians here label things “un-American.” If we go public with our support, the Iranian gov’t will use this support as propaganda to attack the protests.

What is the possible upside for Obama speaking out? Should this revolution succeed in forming a new government, U.S. support of the revolution certainly won’t lend it any credence. Should this revolution fail, U.S. support will simply provide that much more motivation for the current government to act against U.S. interests in the region.

Sometimes it’s just smarter to let things play out before picking sides.

464 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:59am

re: #463 drcordell

Sometimes it’s just smarter to let things play out before picking sides.

Yeah, that’s the Democrat way isn’t it? Wait to see how many get murdered to pick sides. And there are a lot more Arabs than Jews, so what the fuck, choose the Arabs.

465 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:02:53pm

re: #464 kansas

The fact that you think Iranians are Arabs underscores your ignorance. Let the adults have a discussion, if we feel like talking with the kids table we’ll let you know.

466 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:18:37pm

re: #465 drcordell

The fact that you think Iranians are Arabs underscores your ignorance. Let the adults have a discussion, if we feel like talking with the kids table we’ll let you know.

No wonder you have more negative karma than you have comments. And I don’t have to be invited by a turd brain like you to make a comment.

467 horse  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:21:36pm

re: #463 drcordell


Sometimes it’s just smarter to let things play out before picking sides.

Really? That strategy didn’t work when Carter tried it in 1979, I wouldn’t expect it to work now. Being mute provides support for the side that will do whatever it takes to “win”, where the ends justify the means, no matter how violent or evil. That doesn’t seem like a side we should be supporting.

468 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:22:46pm

re: kansas

My turd brain is apparently large enough to help me differentiate between Persians and Arabs. Yours? Not so much.

469 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:26:27pm

re: #468 drcordell

My turd brain is apparently large enough to help me differentiate between Persians and Arabs. Yours? Not so much.

Yeah, I feel the brilliance, DR.

470 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:27:03pm

re: horse

Carter did pick sides in 1979. The side we supported was overthrown by a massive revolution. I’d be curious to know what potential upside you believe throwing our support behind the protesters has? Judging from the history of the region, regimes that come to power via U.S. support don’t exactly have the best track record.

471 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:28:15pm

re: kansas

Never thought I’d be able to throw this out there… GAZE

472 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:29:23pm

re: #465 drcordell

The fact that you think Iranians are Arabs underscores your ignorance. Let the adults have a discussion, if we feel like talking with the kids table we’ll let you know.


Why don’t you point out where I said that Dr. Einstein?

473 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:31:13pm

Looks like Einstein can’t come up with where I said that Iranians are Arabs because it is gazing.

474 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:32:12pm

re: kansas

Yeah, that’s the Democrat way isn’t it? Wait to see how many get murdered to pick sides. And there are a lot more Arabs than Jews, so what the fuck, choose the Arabs.

This is in reply to my comment where I am discussing if we should support the Iranian protesters. Who is talking about Arabs except you?

475 quickjustice  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:33:15pm

re: #233 Last Mohican

You’re wrong. The Bush Administration policy was to condemn and thwart Iranian nuclear weapons development, and work diplomatically to accomplish that. Part of that was the boycott on spare parts for the Iranian oil fields. They are in such disrepair that the mullahs can’t refine enough gasoline for their own country. The U.S. military also were fighting Iranian proxies in Iraq and elsewhere. What do you think Hezbollah is? How about Syria? We were at war, low intensity though it was. It’s regional warfare, not just Iraq and Iran.

The covert efforts were directed at sabotage and low level economic warfare. Short of overt conflict, the Bush Administration did a great deal.

476 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #474 drcordell

This is in reply to my comment where I am discussing if we should support the Iranian protesters. Who is talking about Arabs except you?

No, it was about your comment that we should wait to pick sides. I was making an analogy to picking Arabs over Jews.

477 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:40:14pm

re: kansas

No, it was about your comment that we should wait to pick sides. I was making an analogy to picking Arabs over Jews.

As much as you’d love for this thread to be about Arabs and Jews, it’s not. It’s about the protests in Iran. Your analogy is false. If you want to rant about Arabs, there are plenty of other relevant threads.

478 quickjustice  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:40:42pm

re: #470 drcordell

You’re way off base. The U.S. has intervened repeatedly in U.S. history to preserve Iranian independence, and the Iranians know that. During WWII, the Brits and the Soviets divided Iran into “zones of influence” based upon their oil interests. In 1946 Stalin sent U.S.-made Sherman tanks into Iran to complete the annexation. President Harry Truman threatened to nuke the Soviets if they didn’t withdraw. Lacking his own nukes at that time, Stalin backed down, and withdrew the tanks.

The Soviets also had created proxy political parties within Iran ,including the communist Tudeh Party. When Tudeh stole an election in the 1950s, the CIA helped the Shah overthrow them.

All of the history of Iran after 1920 has to be understood in the context of the British/U.S.-Soviet global rivalry, including events up through the 1970s, when Jimmy Carter abandoned the Shah.

479 HippieforLife  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:42:23pm

re: #399 drcordell

You are a real piece of work. The O is the leader of the FREE world, whether he knows it or not.

A simple statement to say that the US supports freedom and free elections would not cause the entire ME to explode.

This is just another opportunity for the O to show how little he understands his place in the world.

Maybe speaking out to support freedom for all is “above his pay grade.”

480 quickjustice  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:42:47pm

re: #468 drcordell

Persians are not Arabs. Persians are Shia Muslims, Arabs, Sunni. They’ve been rivals since close to the beginning of Islam. Any other insights to offer?

481 quickjustice  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:43:42pm

The Iranians are a brilliant, gentle people. From my experience, they like Americans. Their clerical rulers are another matter.

482 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:48:07pm

re: HippieforLife

Were you not listening to his speech in Cairo? Obama has stated his support for freedom and free elections many times. I’m not against any of that. The support I’m referring to is direct U.S. support of the current Iranian protesters.

483 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:49:53pm

re: quickjustice

Yes, I understand this. Kansas is the one who is on the wrong page. I also wholeheartedly agree with your statement that the Iranians are a brilliant, gentle people. Their own government is selling them down the river and they realize it.

484 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:54:45pm

re: HippieforLife

You are a real piece of work. The O is the leader of the FREE world, whether he knows it or not.

A simple statement to say that the US supports freedom and free elections would not cause the entire ME to explode.

This is just another opportunity for the O to show how little he understands his place in the world.

Maybe speaking out to support freedom for all is “above his pay grade.”

In case you missed it… here’s what he said in Cairo.

“The fourth issue that I will address is democracy.

I know there has been controversy about the promotion of democracy in recent years, and much of this controversy is connected to the war in Iraq. So let me be clear: no system of government can or should be imposed upon one nation by any other.

That does not lessen my commitment, however, to governments that reflect the will of the people. Each nation gives life to this principle in its own way, grounded in the traditions of its own people. America does not presume to know what is best for everyone, just as we would not presume to pick the outcome of a peaceful election. But I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. Those are not just American ideas, they are human rights, and that is why we will support them everywhere.

There is no straight line to realize this promise. But this much is clear: governments that protect these rights are ultimately more stable, successful and secure. Suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. America respects the right of all peaceful and law-abiding voices to be heard around the world, even if we disagree with them. And we will welcome all elected, peaceful governments - provided they govern with respect for all their people.

This last point is important because there are some who advocate for democracy only when they are out of power; once in power, they are ruthless in suppressing the rights of others. No matter where it takes hold, government of the people and by the people sets a single standard for all who hold power: you must maintain your power through consent, not coercion; you must respect the rights of minorities, and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise; you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political process above your party. Without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy.”

485 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:58:45pm
486 horse  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:15:49pm

re: #470 drcordell

Carter did pick sides in 1979. The side we supported was overthrown by a massive revolution. I’d be curious to know what potential upside you believe throwing our support behind the protesters has? Judging from the history of the region, regimes that come to power via U.S. support don’t exactly have the best track record.

1st: Carter put continuous pressure on the Shah to liberalize and then to abdicate. The US military informed the Shah’s military we were not going to support them. It resulted in the rapid disintegration of the imperial army. If anything, Carter’s actions indirectly supported the forces opposing the Shah. Carter did nothing to support the Shah in 1979.

2nd. You completely mischaracterize my statement when you say “throwing our support behind the protesters”. Where did you get that idea based on what I wrote? I said being silent lends support to the side willing to do whatever it takes to win, including horrible violence and other vile acts. We should not be supporting such actions by staying mute.

487 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:21:23pm

re: horse

You completely mischaracterize my statement when you say “throwing our support behind the protesters”. Where did you get that idea based on what I wrote? I said being silent lends support to the side willing to do whatever it takes to win, including horrible violence and other vile acts. We should not be supporting such actions by staying mute.

You said that we should not be silent and support violent actions by staying mute. Since you do not favor staying silent, I logically inferred that you wish the U.S. to show support for the protesters? I would imagine you don’t believe the U.S. should support the current regime.

488 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:23:33pm

re: Iron Fist

You truly believe that the best option for the United States is to provide direct military support to the protesters, and de-stabilize the current Iranian government. Let me guess, you think we’ll be greeted as liberators?

489 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:30:08pm

re: #477 drcordell

As much as you’d love for this thread to be about Arabs and Jews, it’s not. It’s about the protests in Iran. Your analogy is false. If you want to rant about Arabs, there are plenty of other relevant threads.

Your brilliance stems from your ability to mischaracterize a statement, then argue the mischaracterization. But whatever, Dr. 336 downdings with 155 comments.

490 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:30:51pm

re: #481 quickjustice

The Iranians are a brilliant, gentle people. From my experience, they like Americans. Their clerical rulers are another matter.

FYI despite what Doctor Downding said, I said nothing about Iranians.

491 kansas  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:43:31pm

I’m going home. To summarize my participation in this thread, Cordell said we should wait to pick sides in the Iranian situation. I said Democrats do that. I am on the side of democracy so I have picked sides. I used an analogy, picking Arabs over Jews. Jewish Democratic, Arabs not so much. Cordell then went into his famous mischaracterization of the argument by stating that Iranians are not Arabs but rather are Persians, which eventually appears to have evolved into what great people the Persians are. Of course no one ever said Iranians are Arabs, but what the hell? He does seem to think he is quite brilliant, however. He just makes me tired.

492 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:43:32pm

This just in from Twitter via Medaura’s husband.

Want to do something practical instead of just arguing about Iran or helplessly blogging the crackdown?

Try this: Distributed Cyber-War

Quote:

ALL PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD:

Please help us in a full-scale cyberwar againts the dictatorial brutal government of Ahmadinjead! Help Iranians to earn back their votes per instructions below:

Simply click on few of the following links (better too choose your selections from different categories); it opens the site in a new tab. It will not stop you from browsing but by sending a refresh signal to the target site will saturate it. By doing so, we can block Ahmadinjead’s governments flow of information in many of its key components as shown below.

Please help us and yourself from this lunatic who will push the world to world war III.

Do it now.

493 horse  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:47:33pm

re: #487 drcordell

You said that we should not be silent and support violent actions by staying mute. Since you do not favor staying silent, I logically inferred that you wish the U.S. to show support for the protesters? I would imagine you don’t believe the U.S. should support the current regime.

There is a significant difference between supporting sides in a disagreement and not supporting the means in which they conduct themselves in that disagreement. Isn’t nuance supposed to be a fundamental trait in great liberals?

494 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:48:44pm

re: kansas

You are spinning what I have said woefully out of context. Clearly I support the goals and cause of the Iranian protesters. I simply believe that the U.S. government will do nothing but harm this nascent Iranian revolution by injecting ourselves into the situation. You then called me a Democrat pussy in so many words, and drew an analogy that likens half of Iran to Jews and the other half to Arabs.

495 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:49:28pm

re: Cato the Elder

Awesome, thank you.

496 horse  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:49:40pm

re: #492 Cato the Elder

Thanks! Cyber lizards attack :)

497 drcordell  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:55:37pm

re: horse

There is a significant difference between supporting sides in a disagreement and not supporting the means in which they conduct themselves in that disagreement. Isn’t nuance supposed to be a fundamental trait in great liberals?

Not sure I understand the point you’re trying to get across. You’re saying that one can support a cause (i.e. Palestinians) without supporting the means with which they conduct themselves in that disagreement (i.e. terrorism)?

498 horse  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 2:04:44pm

re: #497 drcordell

Not sure I understand the point you’re trying to get across. You’re saying that one can support a cause (i.e. Palestinians) without supporting the means with which they conduct themselves in that disagreement (i.e. terrorism)?

Close. I would more liken it to not taking sides in Northern Ireland, but definitively coming out against violent acts against civilians perpetrated by terrorists or government forces. The point being to deny the to use of violent acts as a means toward victory.

499 nobs  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 4:03:09pm

re: #494 drcordell

You are spinning what I have said woefully out of context. Clearly I support the goals and cause of the Iranian protesters. I simply believe that the U.S. government will do nothing but harm this nascent Iranian revolution by injecting ourselves into the situation. You then called me a Democrat pussy in so many words, and drew an analogy that likens half of Iran to Jews and the other half to Arabs.

No one called you a pussy in my #462 I called Flyers1974 a pussy. If it will make you feel better……………… your a pussy!


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