Jump to bottom

515 comments
1 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:50am

Amazing!

The revolution is being blogofied.

2 SummerSong  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:52am

You go, girl!

3 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:54am

Iranian women are tougher than nails.

Makes me wonder if the Mrs. Fish isn’t part Persian.

*ducks*

4 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:56:02am

MOGH BAR IRI!

5 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:56:46am

She’s my hero.

6 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:09am

Oh yeah, I saw this last night. She starts chasing after them!

Never piss off an Iranian woman. You will have hell to pay.

7 avanti  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:22am

She flashed her hair accidentally too,horrors .

8 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:58:09am

Those protesters have plenty of courage to go around. My hat’s off to them.

Recounting the ballots isn’t going to be sufficient. A new election might not even be sufficient at this point to stop the demonstrations.

Events have taken on a life of their own.

9 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:58:53am

re: #7 avanti

She flashed her hair accidentally too,horrors .

Now they have to report to thug central and be decontaminated. The rays got ‘em.

From Persepolis: “Lady, if uncovered hair is as arousing as they say, you better shave that mustache.” (From the heroine’s father to a horrible school official, who’s giving him grief about his kid not wearing her veil correctly.)

10 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:58:57am

I love a woman who knows how to say “fuck you” in farsi.

11 PISSED  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:20am

That Woman has more Balls than most of our congress critters…

12 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:44am

That’s a lot of spirit. It’s scenes like this that make me believe that this is about more than just the election, and that this will not simply be repressed without a major fight.

13 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:56am

I’m feeling excruciatingly spoiled as a woman in the USA.

14 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:57am

She showed more courage than Obama has, she made a statement, stuck to her beliefs and didn’t stutter.

15 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:00am

Freedom of expression is a powerful motivator. There is something about human nature that does not like to be bullied into submission.

16 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:06am

re: #11 PISSED

That Woman has more Balls than most of our congress critters…

That woman has more balls than Obama and all he had to do was give encourging words and has the whole US military backing him up… What a pu$$y….

17 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:10am

Hmmm…..and if the populace is willing to take the beatings and killing to get what they want.

The mullahs are in very big trouble

18 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:23am

I think the outstanding role played by the iranian women has been severely under-reported in the MFM - and it looks as if the Iranians themselves haven’t had a clue what was coming from them.
Well,being Muslims, that figures!

If this turns into a revolution, then its in no small degree due to the Iranian women.
All power to them!

19 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:50am

re: #17 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Hmmm…..and if the populace is willing to take the beatings and killing to get what they want.

The mullahs are in very big trouble


we pray …

20 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:03am

Tweet: rt @iranbaan says Khamenei addressed the country on tv, insisted on the current results of the votes as being correct #iranelection

21 Truck Monkey  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:11am

I don’t think that these protesters would be taking the stick for someone a “little less bad” than Ahmadinnerjacket. I think the protesters are in the streets to break free from the Mullacracy.

22 PISSED  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:29am

These people are fighting for their freedom and we have a bunch of idiots riot over a basketball game. I am nervous for the time that is coming when our streets look like those in Iran. Things aren’t looking positive out there ..IMHO

23 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:46am

I just hope this changes things in Iran for the better and for good.

24 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:58am

re: #8 lawhawk

Those protesters have plenty of courage to go around. My hat’s off to them.

Recounting the ballots isn’t going to be sufficient. A new election might not even be sufficient at this point to stop the demonstrations.

Events have taken on a life of their own.

Recounting the ballots would be pointless, because at many polling places in pro-reform areas (such as at overseas polling sites and rich areas), they “ran out of” ballots early in the day and Mosuavi supporters couldn’t vote.

Then, in addition, the 20% of Iranians who are illiterate got their votes handwritten in by government workers (all votes are write-in votes there), and most certainly in just about all cases, they wrote in Ahmadinejad’s name, regardless of what the illiterate voter requested.

Plus, the poll-counters are all piad by the Islamic Republic of Iran — they are not neutral.

Add it all up —-> crookedness.

25 PISSED  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:02am

re: #16 MikeAlv77

AMEN to that!

26 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:05am

Both stop amadi and our winston report that ‘“Khamenei LIVE say he is re-confirming #iranelection was A’nejad win”

27 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:06am

re: #18 yma o hyd

I think the outstanding role played by the iranian women has been severely under-reported in the MFM - and it looks as if the Iranians themselves haven’t had a clue what was coming from them.
Well,being Muslims, that figures!

If this turns into a revolution, then its in no small degree due to the Iranian women.
All power to them!


these women are sick of being considered “half a man” under sharia law. their courage is inspiring.

28 MJ  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:23am

Wanted: ‘Hope’ for Iran

Rarely in U.S. history has a foreign policy course been as thoroughly repudiated by events…

…Someday a future president may have to apologize to Iranians for Mr. Obama’s nonfeasance, just as Mr. Obama apologized for the Eisenhower administration’s meddling. But the better Eisenhower parallel is with Hungary in 1956. Then as now a popular uprising coalesced around a figure (Imre Nagy in Hungary; Mir Hossein Mousavi in Iran), who had once been a creature of the system. Then as now it was buoyed by inspiring American rhetoric about freedom and democracy coming over Voice of America airwaves.

online.wsj.com

29 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:32am

re: #23 dapperdave

I just hope this changes things in Iran for the better and for good.

And THAT is the hope and change I am interested in.

30 Tumulus11  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:39am

. Keep those cameras rolling.

31 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:45am

re: #13 scottishbuzzsaw

I’m feeling excruciatingly spoiled as a woman in the USA.

*wink*
Hope today finds you well Scottish!

32 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:54am

re: #21 Truck Monkey

I don’t think that these protesters would be taking the stick for someone a “little less bad” than Ahmadinnerjacket. I think the protesters are in the streets to break free from the Mullacracy.

Fully agree.

33 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:56am

re: #18 yma o hyd

Well the Iranian women have been very strong recently in a number of occasions. I have seen videos of them taking on morality police.

34 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:17am

re: #26 yma o hyd

Both stop amadi and our winston report that ‘“Khamenei LIVE say he is re-confirming #iranelection was A’nejad win”

That’s not going to go over well.

35 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:24am

re: #29 Oh no…Sand People!

Absolutely!

36 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:26am

re: #26 yma o hyd

Both stop amadi and our winston report that ‘“Khamenei LIVE say he is re-confirming #iranelection was A’nejad win”

Then the protesters will have no choice but to take the mullahs down if they are to get what they want. So it is to be war, then?

37 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:40am
38 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:52am

re: #27 _RememberTonyC

these women are sick of being considered “half a man” under sharia law. their courage is inspiring.

Absolutely!
They are amazing - and I’d guess that they are showing the male dissenters what courage really is.
After all - they have much more to fear from the security forces and an eventual ahmadinejad come-back.

39 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:04:00am

Zombie -

Next time you are in SF, drop by Folsom Street and suggest to the residents that they move the Folsom Street Fair to Tehran so they can demonstrate their right to free expression in a country where such would actually be an act of defiance.

40 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:04:20am

re: #11 PISSED

That Woman has more Balls than most of our congress critters…

And Obama and Michelle combined.

41 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:04:29am

re: #39 karmic_inquisitor

Zombie -

Next time you are in SF, drop by Folsom Street and suggest to the residents that they move the Folsom Street Fair to Tehran so they can demonstrate their right to free expression in a country where such would actually be an act of defiance.

I’ll definitely do that.

42 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:04:31am

re: #31 HoosierHoops

*wink*
Hope today finds you well Scottish!

{HH}…it does. And you?

43 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:04:44am

re: #36 thedopefishlives

Then the protesters will have no choice but to take the mullahs down if they are to get what they want. So it is to be war, then?

It would appear so. I think we’re looking at the beginning of the Second Iranian Revolution.

44 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:05:12am

re: #34 Honorary Yooper

That’s not going to go over well.

Especially not as Ayatollah Montazeri has come out, publicly, denouncing this vote fraud.

45 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:05:17am

Iranian Doctors and Nurses protest against brutal use of force 16 June 2009

Youtube Video

In the comments someone wrote:

Please note how they are wearing masks in order to prevent being identified by the Iranian secret police. They are announcing the violent attacks by the Iranian government. “28 people have been shot. 7 people have been killed “. The guy at the end is describing the horrific events he observed in the protest.

46 Robert O.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:05:17am

Lots of comments on YouTube currently carry phrases like “marg bar ahmadinejad” or “marg bar jomhouri-e-islami”. So it’s very refreshing for this infidel to hear the last word is not “amreeka” or “es-rah-il”.

47 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:05:26am

re: #37 buzzsawmonkey

The Iranians clearly feel, without having to be told, that they are the ones they’ve been waiting for.

They have no back up but themselves on this one. I hope they can hold on.

48 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:06:17am

If only that woman and others like her had guns. The regime would fail in a couple days.

49 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:06:24am

re: #36 thedopefishlives

Then the protesters will have no choice but to take the mullahs down if they are to get what they want. So it is to be war, then?

That is what winston said last night, that it was no longer just about the electionf raud - it was turning against the whole Mullahcracy.

50 KenJen  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:06:33am

re: #18 yma o hyd

I think the outstanding role played by the iranian women has been severely under-reported in the MFM - and it looks as if the Iranians themselves haven’t had a clue what was coming from them.
Well,being Muslims, that figures!

If this turns into a revolution, then its in no small degree due to the Iranian women.
All power to them!

I wonder when Michelle will come out in support of the Iranian women.

51 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:06:36am

I think now would be a good time for Israel to go in and take out those nuke sites.

52 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:06:53am

re: #42 scottishbuzzsaw

{HH}…it does. And you?

Just wonderful my dear…..So let’s say we take your advice..And we spoil every woman on Earth…3 Billion Woman are happy..
What could go wrong? *wink*

53 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:07:06am
…One sign on Facebook that the mood of the online protest has changed, said Moshtaghi, is a design tweak of the online rally logo.

Originally a green box with “Where Is My Vote?” emblazoned in white letters, the logo now has a red splash.

The change, she said, symbolizes bloodshed. …


Local Iranians use Facebook to join protest

54 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:07:12am

re: #42 scottishbuzzsaw

{HH}…it does. And you?

{Scottie}!

How are you?

55 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:07:17am

Just remember everyone - don’t meddle.

We don’t want the folks in the street in Iran to suddenly endorse the Theocracy and attack western institutions because we were “seen” as “meddling”.

Can’t be “seen” as doing that.

No.

/

56 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:07:21am

re: #43 Honorary Yooper

It would appear so. I think we’re looking at the beginning of the Second Iranian Revolution.

and some of their neighbors are nervous too…

57 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:07:29am

Also keep in mind that the mothers of these 20-something Iranian girls were themselves “free and westernized” during the Shah era of the ’60s and ’70s — which, despite the secret police and all that, allowed women equal social rights, and they walked around Tehran with no hijabs, full makeup and hairdos, no morality police, etc. It is within very recent memory. I think the young women are sick of having LESS freedom than their own mothers did!

58 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:10am

Shouldn’t some little Imam be climbing out of a well somewhere about now?

59 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:22am

re: #51 dapperdave

Very bad idea. It would only cause people to rally around the hardliners.

60 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:37am

re: #50 KenJen

I wonder when Michelle will come out in support of the Iranian women.

Aww - unsheating my cat’s claws here: she won’t, these Iranian women are far too pretty for WAB to support them!

;-)

61 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:42am

re: #51 dapperdave

Wrong. Right now we sit back and watch. Support and wait. Any thing else could be wrong and cause a hell of a lot more problems. Let them try to solve it themselves.

62 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:00am
63 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:00am

re: #51 dapperdave

I think now would be a good time for Israel to go in and take out those nuke sites.

No. I can’t think of a better way for the mullahs to re-gain control of the situation…

64 PISSED  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:01am

re: #40 Kosh’s Shadow

hahahahahha … touche on that one!

65 Egregious Philbin  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:06am

On Fox News today, good old boys catching snakes with their bare hands! With a live interview.

Larry King: Jeff Foxworthy and American Idol Runner up.

Greta Van Scientology: A full hour devoted to Letterman’s comments.

Thank allah for that set of tubes known as teh intrawebs

66 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:07am

re: #57 zombie

Also keep in mind that the mothers of these 20-something Iranian girls were themselves “free and westernized” during the Shah era of the ’60s and ’70s — which, despite the secret police and all that, allowed women equal social rights, and they walked around Tehran with no hijabs, full makeup and hairdos, no morality police, etc. It is within very recent memory. I think the young women are sick of having LESS freedom than their own mothers did!

excellent point…just a terrific factoid sorta lost in the brawling

67 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:17am

re: #57 zombie

Ah, gool ol Jimmah C. The gift that keeps on giving.
/

68 rightside  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:45am

re: #50 KenJen

That would never be asked. Nor of nancy pelosi, or any other female lib in congress.

69 KenJen  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:46am

re: #60 yma o hyd

Aww - unsheating my cat’s claws here: she won’t, these Iranian women are far too pretty for WAB to support them!

;-)

Ha! They dress better too.

70 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:50am

re: #54 yma o hyd

{Scottie}!

How are you?

{yma}! Just fine, hon…how are you and sweet Madame Dog?

71 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:51am

re: #56 brookly red

And this is a Bad thing?

72 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:54am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

I think you are a neo con.

I also think you are correct.

Bush unleashed all of this.

Rising expectations.

73 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:59am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Hmmm good point, no wonder why I never made it past Corporal.

74 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:10:24am

From ‘change for iran’:
‘summarize of khamenyi’s speech: as your God we say the election was good and for your own sake you should accept it.’

Won’t go down well at all, I don’t think!

75 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:10:30am

re: #56 brookly red

and some of their neighbors are nervous too…

I can see the Russians being rather nervous. I would also suspect the Saudis must be looking on with trepidation, as is the UAE. Syria’s probably scared shitless of losing its only friend in the world. Then who knows what the Pakis are thinking right now with their own Taliban-related troubles.

76 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:10:35am

I should post this notice here too, because there’s been too much of this going on lately:

As I posted in the previous thread, comments that are nothing but personal arguments between posters are going to be deleted. The majority of people reading these threads don’t know or care about the issues in these fights, and reading the endless back-and-forth is a huge turn-off.

77 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:10:49am

re: #67 Oh no…Sand People!

Ah, gool ol Jimmah C. The gift that keeps on giving.
/

Jimmah Carter - election monitor to the world.

78 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:10:51am

re: #71 Jewels (AKA Julian)

And this is a Bad thing?

not if you are a mullah…

79 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:11:29am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

I’d like to think what you describe has played a role.

80 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:11:53am

re: #73 dapperdave

Hmmm good point, no wonder why I never made it past Corporal.

Never interrupt your enemy when he’s in the middle of a mistake. Only people in this situation you can call the enemy are the Mullahs. And they are F***ing up by the numbers.

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:12:01am

She didn’t accidentally uncover her hair—they knocked her head scarf off.

Shouldn’t there be a punishment for that?

Only partially ///

82 Robert O.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:12:19am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Unfortunately, I don’t think we have much to do with it, one way or another. The primary reason we are seeing the volume of discontent against Ahmadinejad is because he has trashed his country. Iranians are suffering under 25% inflation, second highest in the world after Zimbabwe. The middle class is suffering under this burden. There is no reason to suspect Iranians don’t vote primary for their domestic economic interests. After all, people outside of the US thought 2004 was a referendum on Iraq (same as the elections in Oz and Britain) and it was never that. Mass discontent usually revolves around leaders who have brought it on themselves by screwing up domestically.

83 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:12:23am

Police Brutality - Iranians protest against election results

Youtube Video

84 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:12:28am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

What do others here think?


I think there were many more reasons for going to war in Iraq than wmd, and offering the people over there hope was part of the plan.

85 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:12:30am

re: #76 Charles

I should post this notice here too, because there’s been too much of this going on lately:

As I posted in the previous thread, comments that are nothing but personal arguments between posters are going to be deleted. The majority of people reading these threads don’t know or care about the issues in these fights, and reading the endless back-and-forth is a huge turn-off.

Got it.

86 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:12:32am

1:46 PM ET

— Voice of America Iran jumps in the fray. They launch a Twitter account.

Also: “Senior officials say the State Department is working with Twitter and other social networking sites to ensure Iranians are able to continue to communicate to each other and the outside world.”

87 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:12:43am

re: #76 Charles

thanks for the reminders…I snipe once in a while so I’m guilty

88 Baier  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:08am

I’m telling you, when the dust settles, the Middle East will be ruled by women!

89 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:15am

re: #70 scottishbuzzsaw

{yma}! Just fine, hon…how are you and sweet Madame Dog?

We’re ok - Madame has a hliday guest, a very handsome black Border Collie, whom she loves - but as he’s so big, he sometimes runs over her or bumps into her - and she doesn’t like that at all!
But they are sweet together - pity he’s not properly trained …

90 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:15am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

1:46 PM ET

Isn’t that “meddling?”

91 spinmore  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:30am

You cannot make a definative statement in support of anything (much less freedom) and still be ‘all things to all people’. Concerned - BUT, let’s not appear to meddle.

92 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:32am

re: #75 Honorary Yooper

I can see the Russians being rather nervous. I would also suspect the Saudis must be looking on with trepidation, as is the UAE. Syria’s probably scared shitless of losing its only friend in the world. Then who knows what the Pakis are thinking right now with their own Taliban-related troubles.

Saudis with trepdation… has a nice ring to it.

93 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:43am

re: #80 BlueCanuck

Never interrupt your enemy when he’s in the middle of a mistake.


Thank you. I was trying to remember that quote yesterday.

94 opnion  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:46am

Putting the cart way before the horse, if this election is overturned, Obama will be taking credit. He was lauding his own Cairo speech for fueling the debate in Iran.
It is always about him.

95 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:47am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Here’s the question: is it in any way possible that the current upheaval has to do with the fact that on one side of Iran, Iraq—now free of its dictator—is groping towards democracy, and on the other side Afghanistan is slowly beating back the Taliban?

In other words, is this upheaval in Iran proximately caused by our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? I would like to think so. Originally, I had figured that our presence on either side of Iran was for the purpose of potentially providing staging areas for our taking down the mullahs’ regime, but by the end of Bush’s second term it was clear that he no longer had the will or support for doing so. Yet perhaps, by removing the lateral support of the two oppressive regimes on either side of Iran, it is possible that this inspired the people of Iran to take matters into their own hands.

What do others here think?

“The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence” happens to be true in Iran’s case.

96 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:59am

re: #84 J.D.

I think there were many more reasons for going to war in Iraq than wmd, and offering the people over there hope was part of the plan.

I agree… I don’t understand why Bush didn’t make more of the position that they were promoting democracy in the middle east?

97 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:14:05am

Addled Former President Makes Nice With Terrorists; Terrorists Plot Assassination of Carter

lawhawk.blogspot.com

as a thought on the Jimmy carter Assassination plot, I might disagree with carter on practically EVERYTHING, but I would not cheer this if it had gone through.

also, it would galvanize the left and right in the US against the ‘Palestinians’.

it’s amazing Hamas has gotten as far as it had

98 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:14:13am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Decent thesis, although tempered by the fact that the Iranian mullahs hold control of the media outlets, which makes getting news about the situations in Afghanistan and Iraq more difficult. Still, US troops on both borders poses issues of nationalism, and the Iranians might have serious issues with the mullahs, but they aren’t about to be bossed around by anyone else either.

The march of democracy is hard not to see, but the mullahs, terrorists, and dictators will do their utmost to hold onto power that much longer.

If Iran goes, so too might Syria and Hamastan - after all, the money supply goes with them, and that opens the door to all other manner of possibility.

99 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:14:24am

re: #94 opnion

It is always about him.


Yes, that is a constant.

100 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:14:39am

re: #76 Charles

I should post this notice here too, because there’s been too much of this going on lately:

As I posted in the previous thread, comments that are nothing but personal arguments between posters are going to be deleted. The majority of people reading these threads don’t know or care about the issues in these fights, and reading the endless back-and-forth is a huge turn-off.

Charles.It’s all my fault…Somebody pissed me off at 5am..
I am deeply deeply sorry….It won’t happen again my friend…
You have the coolest Blog on the Internet and I will not fuck up again…
Charles…I am so sorry….

101 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:14:54am

re: #90 karmic_inquisitor

I’d say it is. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that the is much much more going on behind the scenes.

102 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:02am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Here’s the question: is it in any way possible that the current upheaval has to do with the fact that on one side of Iran, Iraq—now free of its dictator—is groping towards democracy, and on the other side Afghanistan is slowly beating back the Taliban?

In other words, is this upheaval in Iran proximately caused by our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? I would like to think so. Originally, I had figured that our presence on either side of Iran was for the purpose of potentially providing staging areas for our taking down the mullahs’ regime, but by the end of Bush’s second term it was clear that he no longer had the will or support for doing so. Yet perhaps, by removing the lateral support of the two oppressive regimes on either side of Iran, it is possible that this inspired the people of Iran to take matters into their own hands.

What do others here think?

In my world I would like to believe so. Regardless of what the MFM has tried to sell us, I bet that the word has spread to the Iranians that the ‘evil occupational American hegemony’ is actually truly there to help the Iraqis. Actions speak louder than MFM propaganda.

103 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:05am

re: #94 opnion

Putting the cart way before the horse, if this election is overturned, Obama will be taking credit. He was lauding his own Cairo speech for fueling the debate in Iran.
It is always about him.

He may well like to think so - and say so.

The Iranians know different!

104 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:07am
105 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:12am

re: #13 scottishbuzzsaw

I’m feeling excruciatingly spoiled as a woman in the USA.

Me, as a man, too.

106 Orangutan  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:15am

re: #12 Honorary Yooper

That’s a lot of spirit. It’s scenes like this that make me believe that this is about more than just the election, and that this will not simply be repressed without a major fight.


It’s like Michael Corleone witnessing a rebel deliberately killing himself and an army officer with a hand grenade …. there is more to this than seems to be hitting a lot of MSM outlets.

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:33am

Just a personal observation—I have always considered that the rise of the newspaper in America greatly aided the American Revolution.

(In case you didn’t know, Franklin would set up his apprentices in other towns, and they had all been trained, both as printers and as thinkers, by him. When the leaders of the colonies started to work together, they had a way to tell the regular people the truth.)

This is just the same, isn’t it? A lot more gee-whiz, sure. Phones that might be phones or cameras, and that can be carried in a pocket. Communication in a flash, over huge distances. But it’s the same. Spread the truth, communicate, and the people can fight.

108 Lawrior  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:36am

re: #98 lawhawk

A domino theory for democracy? I amenable to that.

109 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:37am

re: #96 DaddyG

I agree… I don’t understand why Bush didn’t make more of the position that they were promoting democracy in the middle east?

Maybe because he recognized that bringing democracy to another country would not be seen as sufficient grounds for sending American soldiers to their deaths. Or maybe just because he was incredibly bad at selling his ideas to the American people and the world. Mostly, he didn’t even try.

110 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:57am

re: #76 Charles

I should post this notice here too, because there’s been too much of this going on lately:

As I posted in the previous thread, comments that are nothing but personal arguments between posters are going to be deleted. The majority of people reading these threads don’t know or care about the issues in these fights, and reading the endless back-and-forth is a huge turn-off.

I’d like to buy an argument.

111 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:16:25am

I’m going to take a guess and say the woman was with her parents. What really struck me was her Father’s reaction. That shows you just how beat down those people have become.

112 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:16:50am

re: #98 lawhawk

If Hamastan goes, in the wake of the downfall of the Mullahs - that would hopefull give rise to a different outcome of the ‘Two-states-peace-process’!

For Israel, it would be all good.

113 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:16:56am

re: #89 yma o hyd

We’re ok - Madame has a hliday guest, a very handsome black Border Collie, whom she loves - but as he’s so big, he sometimes runs over her or bumps into her - and she doesn’t like that at all!
But they are sweet together - pity he’s not properly trained …

Now why has my beloved 6’4” handsome, slightly klutzy husband come to mind!

114 Lawrior  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:17:23am

re: #109 Last Mohican

Or he had enough wars over there that were not going as planned that starting another was not seen as the best course.

115 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:17:30am

re: #104 buzzsawmonkey

Like…you mean…their reneging on the Dayton agreements? Firing on our planes [with French arms] that were enforcing the no-fly zone? Yes, there were many reasons.

116 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:17:40am

re: #39 karmic_inquisitor

10,000 updings!

117 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:17:52am

re: #101 Killgore Trout

I’d say it is. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that the is much much more going on behind the scenes.

Covering all bases.

A positive Public Relations opportunity for every possible outcome.

We have become a no risk nation.

118 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:17:54am

re: #107 EmmmieG Light speed papyrus. People having the ability to tell their story in real time is incredibly powerful. This of course is why Obama and company have hired ABC to run a week long infomercial on health care directly from the White House with no opposing views.

119 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:17:57am

re: #37 buzzsawmonkey

The Iranians clearly feel, without having to be told, that they are the ones they’ve been waiting for.

heh … well put!

120 filetandrelease  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:18:06am

re: #18 yma o hyd

I think the outstanding role played by the iranian women has been severely under-reported in the MFM - and it looks as if the Iranians themselves haven’t had a clue what was coming from them.
Well,being Muslims, that figures!

If this turns into a revolution, then its in no small degree due to the Iranian women.
All power to them!

Earlier when scrutinizing the photos from those crowds who were marching in favor of Dinnerjacket the total lack of woman in the crowds was obvious. It appears Persian woman, always proud, are a bit tired of this subjugation thing.

121 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:18:11am

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Actually I was reminded by CtE. A Napoleon quote according to him.

122 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:18:32am

re: #113 scottishbuzzsaw

Now why has my beloved 6’4” handsome, slightly klutzy husband come to mind!

6’4” ? A wing man is born! Can he shoot?

123 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:18:36am

re: #110 karmic_inquisitor

Better yet

Youtube Video

124 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:18:43am

Videos of Gunshots Fired in Iran

Youtube Video

125 Orangutan  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:18:44am

re: #96 DaddyG

I agree… I don’t understand why Bush didn’t make more of the position that they were promoting democracy in the middle east?

Respectfully, while I think he could have made more of this point, he tried to make a lot about this point as it was. However, the extrinsic economic and other benefits due the US under a classically liberalizing Middle East opening to the West was something ignored/downplayed by the MSM (IIRC), not completely unlike this current white phosphrus burst in Iran is being presented now.

126 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:19:07am

re: #80 BlueCanuck

Never interrupt your enemy when he’s in the middle of a mistake. Only people in this situation you can call the enemy are the Mullahs. And they are F***ing up by the numbers.

So we do have nothing to worry about for the next 4 years from an outside threat…whew…was getting worried there…
/

127 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:19:09am

re: #94 opnion

Putting the cart way before the horse, if this election is overturned, Obama will be taking credit. He was lauding his own Cairo speech for fueling the debate in Iran.
It is always about him.

He’ll claim the strategic biding of his time, waiting to see what happens, not choosing a side, were all part of his master plan. The people in the street? Bit players on his world stage.

128 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:19:41am

iranbaan says that ‘Mothers of arrested young protesters h/b told will keep them until end of protests.’

Might make those mothers really angry …

129 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:19:56am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Here’s the question: is it in any way possible that the current upheaval has to do with the fact that on one side of Iran, Iraq—now free of its dictator—is groping towards democracy, and on the other side Afghanistan is slowly beating back the Taliban?

In other words, is this upheaval in Iran proximately caused by our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? I would like to think so. Originally, I had figured that our presence on either side of Iran was for the purpose of potentially providing staging areas for our taking down the mullahs’ regime, but by the end of Bush’s second term it was clear that he no longer had the will or support for doing so. Yet perhaps, by removing the lateral support of the two oppressive regimes on either side of Iran, it is possible that this inspired the people of Iran to take matters into their own hands.

What do others here think?

Maybe, a little, in some small ways, but the opposite effect is at least as strong, that US intervention on either side would make some nervous or indignant.

The US influence at a people to people level in Iran is very large, but right now, the people don’t run the country, which is hardly a shock because the mullahs don’t listen to the people, they only listen to Allah, if you believe any of that hypocritical bull. But, that’s what they have.

130 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:19:58am

Iraq War vets know a lot more about this than I, but I believe there was a shadow war between the Revolutionary Guards and our military going on along the Iraq-Iran border. Infiltration and border raids going both ways.

I don’t know if the U.S. military did more than that.

131 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:20:06am

Tweet:

rt @iranbaan Revolutionary courts told rlativs of detainees they wont b released unless they stop the #IranElection protests & go home

Blackmail, be a nice little minion and go home to your proper role.

132 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:20:16am

re: #123 dapperdave

Better yet


No it isn’t.

133 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:20:37am

re: #113 scottishbuzzsaw

Now why has my beloved 6’4” handsome, slightly klutzy husband come to mind!

Teeheehee - that does sound like Baz ( thats what that dog is called …)

134 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:20:38am
135 BatGuano  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:20:54am

re: #123 dapperdave

No thread is complete without a Monty Python reference.

136 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:21:05am

It is an annoyance, no more.

Cast you mind’s eye back to those dark days after the evile Rethuglicans stole the 2000 elections.

Remember the brave CodePinkers starring down the truncheon-wielding jack-booted gestapo of the Right?

Recall how intrepid inflated-scrotum-man was, shouting defiance as the dirty pigs dragged his bleeding, broken body through the streets.

And who can forget International ANSWER? Who among us can say we did as much to face down the tanks and helmeted goons that the vicious henchmen of the establishment deployed?

Yes, it is true that these ‘protesters’ show some slight signs of political awareness, but seriously, where is the support for our gay-lesbian-transgendered whales?

Pikers and amateurs. Not even so much as a giant paper-maiche puppet.

These people have a long way to go to match a genuine Democrat-sponsored demonstration.

137 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:21:22am

re: #108 Lawrior

A domino theory for democracy? I amenable to that.

I have never believed in that theory. In general, I do not think that Arab culture places any significant value on democracy. At least not at this point in history. I remember reading some poll on the subject that took place in Syria, where people were asked if they would prefer to live in a democracy. Mostly they sort of shrugged their shoulders and said “whatever.” What they really wanted was just to be less poor, and they didn’t connect this with democracy. I thin there are many more deeply religious Arab Muslim countries where democracy is actually seen as an evil impediment to the theocracy that is required by Muslim law.

My sense is that Iranians, as a rule, probably place much more value on democracy than the Arabs. But I think that trying to start a wave of democracy flowing over the Arab world is like trying to start a fire using soaking wet wood. You can keep throwing matches on it, but all you’re doing is wasting matches.

138 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:21:32am

re: #134 buzzsawmonkey

As I said yestereve, it was undoubtedly the Cairo syrup from the Obama waffle that sparked this.

/

airball

139 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:21:33am

re: #94 opnion

Putting the cart way before the horse, if this election is overturned, Obama will be taking credit. He was lauding his own Cairo speech for fueling the debate in Iran.
It is always about him.

He had better wait a bit before he takes any credit…. As Charles points out… We don’t know what this guy will do.

140 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:21:45am

People are risking their lives and the lives of their families and Obama has basically said nothing to encourage or help these people.

Hot Air has linked to an article on the left-leaning SLATE that wants Obama to “rethink his policy of ‘engagement’ with Iran.”

141 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:21:46am

Out for a while.
The two ladies who cut my hair are Iranian.
I’m going up the street to ask if their families are okay.

142 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:21:56am

After watching the video up above, I checked out some the other videos linked below it. This one is pretty intense even from behind iron grating. After watching this one, I decided to see how long this youtuber had been a member. He joined on the 14th of June! IOW, he joined just so he could get the word and video out. Amazing!

Youtube Video

143 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:22:04am

re: #120 filetandrelease

Earlier when scrutinizing the photos from those crowds who were marching in favor of Dinnerjacket the total lack of woman in the crowds was obvious. It appears Persian woman, always proud, are a bit tired of this subjugation thing.

Indeed!

That was something which I also noted with amazement - the many women in the one crowd - and the total absence of them in the ahmadinejad crowd.

144 opnion  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:22:23am

re: #103 yma o hyd

He may well like to think so - and say so.

The Iranians know different!

I think that when the history is written about the turmoil in In Iran, no matter how it turns out, a lot will be attributed to the internet.
The young people there monitor world events & culture.
They want what others have, simply freedom.

145 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:22:47am

re: #132 karmic_inquisitor

Yes it is : p

146 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:23:13am

re: #118 DaddyG

Light speed papyrus. People having the ability to tell their story in real time is incredibly powerful. This of course is why Obama and company have hired ABC to run a week long infomercial on health care directly from the White House with no opposing views.

“hired” makes it sound like they are paying for it ;)

147 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:23:40am

Zombie made an excellent point about Iranian women and their mothers. The Shah worked hard to westernize Iran, and welcomed the Americans. That has had some impact.

148 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:23:47am

Tweet StopAhmadi: They’re cutting off all connections now, Google Talk, Yahoo Messenger Twitter.. #gr88 #iranelection

149 filetandrelease  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:10am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey
I have always been under the impression that the two war front forwarded by Bush was an effort to plant seeds of democracy in the M.E. as much as WMD or anything else. Would we be witnessing these same events if he hadn’t? Hard to say, but IMO, we would not.

150 Last Mohican  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:29am

re: #114 Lawrior

Or he had enough wars over there that were not going as planned that starting another was not seen as the best course.

One of my personal theories is that this is exactly why Bush left Syria alone, despite all the accumulating evidence that Iraq’s WMDs may have been transferred there. Perhaps he hypocritically abandoned his quest to eliminate WMDs when the size of the task exceeded his political and military resources.

But anyway, I thought the theory was that democracy would just spontaneously ignite throughout the Arab world, once a single Arab country got a taste of it. And that certainly didn’t happen.

151 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:31am

re: #145 dapperdave

Yes it is : p

Charles - cleanup on aisle #145 …

///

152 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:31am

21:10 ElBaradei: Underfunded IAEA can`t be blamed for failures (Reuters)

What a weaselly little fuck.

153 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:37am

re: #120 filetandrelease

re: #143 yma o hyd

A lot of the Ahmadinejad demonstrators are hirelings, sent there.

154 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:40am
155 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:40am

re: #135 BatGuano

No thread is complete without a Monty Python reference.

Dinnerjacket, “I am Achmadinejad…King of the Iranians…”

protestor: “I didn’t vote for you…”

Dinnerjacket, “You don’t vote for kings!”

protestor: “Well I can become King then…”

/apologies to the Holy Grail…

156 abolitionist  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:41am

re: #111 Wendya

I’m going to take a guess and say the woman was with her parents. What really struck me was her Father’s reaction. That shows you just how beat down those people have become.

I noticed that too.

157 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:52am

re: #125 Orangutan It is disgusting what the major media outlets have done to undermine public trust and skewer Presidents that have an (R) next to their names. Hopefully the economics will continue to dictate they present more balanced and objective coverage or die off in the face of a more democratized form of media. The technology have given some voice back to the people and away from the starmakers.

158 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:25:23am

re: #148 BlueCanuck

Tweet StopAhmadi: They’re cutting off all connections now, Google Talk, Yahoo Messenger Twitter.. #gr88 #iranelection

They will try, but they will not succeed. As long as they can establish some sort of route, they will have access, and Internet core routing protocols are self-repairing - if they close off a route, the border routers will update their databases to reroute the traffic around the closed link. There’s no stopping them now.

159 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:26:00am

re: #135 BatGuano

No thread is complete without a Monty Python reference.

“He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!”
—Iranians on Ahmadinejad

160 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:26:00am

re: #150 Last Mohican

As you know, Persians aren’t Arabs. That ethnic difference is significant.

161 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:26:07am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Here’s the question: is it in any way possible that the current upheaval has to do with the fact that on one side of Iran, Iraq—now free of its dictator—is groping towards democracy, and on the other side Afghanistan is slowly beating back the Taliban?

In other words, is this upheaval in Iran proximately caused by our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? I would like to think so. Originally, I had figured that our presence on either side of Iran was for the purpose of potentially providing staging areas for our taking down the mullahs’ regime, but by the end of Bush’s second term it was clear that he no longer had the will or support for doing so. Yet perhaps, by removing the lateral support of the two oppressive regimes on either side of Iran, it is possible that this inspired the people of Iran to take matters into their own hands.

What do others here think?

Yes, that is exactly what I think. I also include moves towards democracy in Lebanon, and yes even the West Bank. All imperfect versions, but the sparks of human freedom is seen, and desired.

The sparks will ignite the flame…. it just takes time. We are used to these instant changes (Bush then Obama…. Change!). The real world has a much longer timetable.

162 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:26:28am

re: #137 Last Mohican

You are probably right as far as the arab countries are concerned - but to ahve a non-Arab Muslim democracy might ave a great effect on the other non-arab Muslim states in the Far East.
And a democratic Muslim state might alos have some influence on the politics of, say, Syria, Jordan and the palis (no more money going to them …) and thus work well for Israel.

163 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:26:35am

re: #136 razorbacker

It is an annoyance, no more.

Cast you mind’s eye back to those dark days after the evile Rethuglicans stole the 2000 elections.

Remember the brave CodePinkers starring down the truncheon-wielding jack-booted gestapo of the Right?

Recall how intrepid inflated-scrotum-man was, shouting defiance as the dirty pigs dragged his bleeding, broken body through the streets.

And who can forget International ANSWER? Who among us can say we did as much to face down the tanks and helmeted goons that the vicious henchmen of the establishment deployed?

Yes, it is true that these ‘protesters’ show some slight signs of political awareness, but seriously, where is the support for our gay-lesbian-transgendered whales?

Pikers and amateurs. Not even so much as a giant paper-maiche puppet.

These people have a long way to go to match a genuine Democrat-sponsored demonstration.

I remember just last week when all we had to worry about was two hostile thugocracies trying to become hostile nuclear powers.

Now we have one possibly on hold if not stopped, but the other is not enjoying being ignored by the world.

164 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:26:47am

re: #158 thedopefishlives

They will try, but they will not succeed. As long as they can establish some sort of route, they will have access, and Internet core routing protocols are self-repairing - if they close off a route, the border routers will update their databases to reroute the traffic around the closed link. There’s no stopping them now.

well they could just cut the power…

165 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:27:03am

re: #158 thedopefishlives

Depends on how much control of the hardware the government has. If it controls all of it then all they need to do is shut down the servers, routers, and PBX’s.

166 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:27:18am

re: #158 thedopefishlives

They will try, but they will not succeed. As long as they can establish some sort of route, they will have access, and Internet core routing protocols are self-repairing - if they close off a route, the border routers will update their databases to reroute the traffic around the closed link. There’s no stopping them now.

mmmmm..The routing tables in a Cisco Router controls all access…sorry but it does.

167 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:27:28am

re: #131 BlueCanuck

Tweet:

rt @iranbaan Revolutionary courts told rlativs of detainees they wont b released unless they stop the #IranElection protests & go home

Blackmail, be a nice little minion and go home to your proper role.

Bad idea. Very, very bad idea.

168 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:27:39am

re: #142 Irenicum

wow.

169 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:10am

re: #144 opnion

I think that when the history is written about the turmoil in In Iran, no matter how it turns out, a lot will be attributed to the internet.
The young people there monitor world events & culture.
They want what others have, simply freedom.

Which may influence states even further away …

Ok - this is pure speculation, but think what this means for the young Chinese, who are certain to watch and follow these events …

170 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:21am

re: #149 filetandrelease

I have always been under the impression that the two war front forwarded by Bush was an effort to plant seeds of democracy in the M.E. as much as WMD or anything else. Would we be witnessing these same events if he hadn’t? Hard to say, but IMO, we would not.

Agree.

And Obama could put his talents to work and help catalyze the fall.

Then where would Syria be without its sponsor state?

I don’t care who gets the credit - the only way to keep WMD out of the middle east is for democracy to take root there. That requires (and has required) risk taking and a willingness to do the unpopular.

171 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:22am

Mona Charen asks if the current situation in Iran might be Obama’s equivalent of Jimmy Carter’s more-or-less wakeup call when the USSR rolled into Afghanistan.

I’m hopeful, but skeptical.

172 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:26am

re: #146 brookly red

“hired” makes it sound like they are paying for it ;)

Stimulus by any other name…

173 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:39am

re: #148 BlueCanuck

Tweet StopAhmadi: They’re cutting off all connections now, Google Talk, Yahoo Messenger Twitter.. #gr88 #iranelection

And these hack attacks being advocated by a few here are certainly not helping by snatching up critically needed bandwidth.

174 Lawrior  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:39am

re: #137 Last Mohican

We have spent enough to achieve normalized levels of anarchy in two foreign countries, taking on more projects is out of the question. After seeing the changes possible within their neighbors, perhaps the only thing needed was an internal spark to get things going.

175 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:40am
176 KenJen  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:29:05am

re: #163 FurryOldGuyJeans

I remember just last week when all we had to worry about was two hostile thugocracies trying to become hostile nuclear powers.

Now we have one possibly on hold if not stopped, but the other is not enjoying being ignored by the world.

I wonder if the North Korean people can see what’s going on in Iran. Maybe they’ll get some ideas.

177 opnion  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:29:46am

re: #169 yma o hyd

Which may influence states even further away …

Ok - this is pure speculation, but think what this means for the young Chinese, who are certain to watch and follow these events …

Absolutely it has to influence them.

178 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:29:47am

re: #100 HoosierHoops

Charles.It’s all my fault…Somebody pissed me off at 5am..
I am deeply deeply sorry….It won’t happen again my friend…
You have the coolest Blog on the Internet and I will not fuck up again…
Charles…I am so sorry….

Hey, save some of that crow for me. Mea culpa, mea quoque culpa!

179 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:29:53am

re: #158 thedopefishlives

They will try, but they will not succeed. As long as they can establish some sort of route, they will have access, and Internet core routing protocols are self-repairing - if they close off a route, the border routers will update their databases to reroute the traffic around the closed link. There’s no stopping them now.

The key element is that the government is using the net as well. They cannot shut it off, because they are depending on getting information from the streets, and issuing orders. Emails, cell phones, land lines, faxes etc… All tools for repression AND freedom!

180 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:30:06am

re: #169 yma o hyd

Which may influence states even further away …

Ok - this is pure speculation, but think what this means for the young Chinese, who are certain to watch and follow these events …

Look closer to home, Ma’am. Think what the citizens of the European Union are thinking, and what must be running through the minds of their betters in Brussels.

181 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:30:13am

re: #173 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yeah, that’s what I call a real bad idea.

182 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:30:35am

Crikey:

‘CONFIRMED again: Mousavi got call election night, was told he won, next day they switch results 2 Ahmadi’s favor #gr88

From stop amadi

183 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:30:36am

re: #176 KenJen

I wonder if the North Korean people can see what’s going on in Iran. Maybe they’ll get some ideas.

I doubt the NorK people have any clue what is happening in their own country, knowing what is happening in Iran is a pipe dream.

184 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:30:55am

re: #176 KenJen

I wonder if the North Korean people can see what’s going on in Iran. Maybe they’ll get some ideas.

It would be great, but most don’t have any access to media.

185 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:31:02am

re: #134 buzzsawmonkey

If Iran indeed gets a democracy, and it results in real and tangible improvements in relations with the West, I don’t care if Obama gets/takes credit. It’s a good thing, regardless of who gets the credit politically.

I know that it would be the result of the Iranian people who got sick and tired of being fed a line of crap from the mullahs.

186 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:31:11am

BTW - where are the lefties who a year ago argued that Iran was a democracy and that, if we are committed to democratizing the middle east, why weren’t we normalizing relations with Iran?

The “axis of evil” seems an appropriate label when one looks at the carnage in the streets.

187 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:31:11am

re: #178 Cato the Elder

Hey, save some of that crow for me. Mea culpa, mea quoque culpa!

You have no idea how bad I feel….

188 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:31:11am

re: #166 HoosierHoops

mmmmm..The routing tables in a Cisco Router controls all access…sorry but it does.

You can manually update routing tables, but as long as there are other routers looking at that link, it will be routed around. To the proposed scenarios above, true, shutting down the whole country’s infrastructure would have the desired effect; but that would hamper their own efforts, and the bloggers could use satellite uplinks to escape the Iranian routing network entirely (assuming it’s not an Iranian-owned satellite that’s being linked to).

189 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:32:19am

re: #185 lawhawk

If Iran indeed gets a democracy, and it results in real and tangible improvements in relations with the West, I don’t care if Obama gets/takes credit. It’s a good thing, regardless of who gets the credit politically.

I know that it would be the result of the Iranian people who got sick and tired of being fed a line of crap from the mullahs.

I do care…it’s important that history be as precise as possible

190 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:32:29am
191 opnion  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:32:37am

re: #179 Buck

The key element is that the government is using the net as well. They cannot shut it off, because they are depending on getting information from the streets, and issuing orders. Emails, cell phones, land lines, faxes etc… All tools for repression AND freedom!

THe more we talk about it, it seems like an internet connection is the bane of a dictator.

192 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:32:42am

I would really like to flush out that rumor that Hezbollah and Hamas were being used as riot police in Iran.

The Palestinians have a real track record of backing the wrong horse (Saddam). The backlash would be interesting if they do it again here.

193 Baier  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:32:59am

re: #185 lawhawk

If Iran indeed gets a democracy, and it results in real and tangible improvements in relations with the West, I don’t care if Obama gets/takes credit. It’s a good thing, regardless of who gets the credit politically.

I know that it would be the result of the Iranian people who got sick and tired of being fed a line of crap from the mullahs.


Agreed. It would be a stretch for Obama to get more credit than Bush. But, the ultimate credit will go to the Iranians, and deservedly so, it’s their blood.

194 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:33:09am

re: #171 Occasional Reader

…The Obama approach looks much less appealing following the sham election of June 12. The bromides and promises of respect look increasingly tawdry as the regime’s goons speed through Iran’s streets on motorcycles beating demonstrators with batons, as Internet sites are closed, as opposition leaders declare the election stolen, as dissidents including political leaders, students, and journalists are jailed, and as violence spills into the streets.

Just as the Soviets let the mask of “peaceful coexistence” slip when they invaded Afghanistan, the mullahs have revealed themselves for what they are. It has suddenly become much more difficult to pretend that by engaging with this junta you are not betraying the Iranian people. The Obama foreign policy — hope leavened with helium — must now come down to Earth.


So far Obama has said we shouldn’t meddle.
I’m not holding onto much hope that he’ll change.

195 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:33:10am

re: #180 razorbacker

Look closer to home, Ma’am. Think what the citizens of the European Union are thinking, and what must be running through the minds of their betters in Brussels.

Hah!
People in Europe, as compared to those in Iran, are not hungry for democracy, they are not hungry full stop!

It might help some here in the UK to get cracking some more to defeat NuLab, but thats all, right now …

196 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:33:12am

Iranian election votes, by Province:

guardian.co.uk

197 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:33:24am

Tweet StopAhamdi:
News: Todays’ protest was massive in amount of ppl, maybe more than yesterday #gr88 #iranelection

News: The massive protest today was VERY quiet n calm, no big fights only some few got beaten #gr88 #iranelection

198 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:33:46am

re: #181 BlueCanuck

Yeah, that’s what I call a real bad idea.

On the list of bad ideas it does earn a top 2 spot right now.

But trying to explain that to the juveniles doing this will be as effective as trying to stop the tide. They think they are sooooo brave hiding behind their monitor.

199 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:33:53am

re: #190 buzzsawmonkey

How very “Dewey Beats Truman.”

The Iranian riot police seem to be taking that “beats” part a bit too literally.

200 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:33:57am

re: #189 albusteve

The precise history is that Obama twiddled his thumbs and took three days to find his voice, and when he did say something, it was the bare minimum.

The Iranian people were the ones who stepped up. Obama will ride the coattails.

201 poteen  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:34:04am

re: #1 zombie

Amazing!

The revolution is being blogofied.

/Any comments from Gil Scott Heron?

202 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:34:19am

re: #51 dapperdave

I think now would be a good time for Israel to go in and take out those nuke sites.

not that Israel won’t be excoriated for whatever they do, but taking out the centrifuges right now would be portrayed as the basest form of opportunism against a nation in transition to hope-and-change….. if Mousavi wins, destroying the nukes will be an “assertion of fascism by the Israelis” among the dolts who think Father Coughlin was a right winger….. I hope that POS nutjob Achmedinejad wins that the justification for taking out Iran’s nuclear facilities if more or less rock solid.

203 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:34:19am

re: #182 yma o hyd

It is very doubtful the ballots could be counted on election night. In previous elections, the results were not heard for a few days. That sounds like a hopeful rumor to me.

204 brucee  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:34:44am

re: #24 zombie

Recounting the ballots would be pointless, because at many polling places in pro-reform areas (such as at overseas polling sites and rich areas), they “ran out of” ballots early in the day and Mosuavi supporters couldn’t vote.

Then, in addition, the 20% of Iranians who are illiterate got their votes handwritten in by government workers (all votes are write-in votes there), and most certainly in just about all cases, they wrote in Ahmadinejad’s name, regardless of what the illiterate voter requested.

Plus, the poll-counters are all piad by the Islamic Republic of Iran — they are not neutral.

Add it all up —-> crookedness.

In addition to all that, there were over 10 million unused ballots by the end of “election”. I’m sure those have been put to proper use by now.

205 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:34:49am

re: #187 HoosierHoops

You have no idea how bad I feel….

I just bought you a cyber-mocha. Buck up and enjoy the rest of the day!

As far as one can enjoy anything when the kids and women are taking all the heat in Tehran…

206 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:34:58am

re: #188 thedopefishlives

You can manually update routing tables, but as long as there are other routers looking at that link, it will be routed around. To the proposed scenarios above, true, shutting down the whole country’s infrastructure would have the desired effect; but that would hamper their own efforts, and the bloggers could use satellite uplinks to escape the Iranian routing network entirely (assuming it’s not an Iranian-owned satellite that’s being linked to).

Re the satellites: earlier today there were tweets that the police was systematically destroying satellite dishes in Tehran.

207 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:35:17am

re: #194 J.D.

So far Obama has said we shouldn’t meddle.
I’m not holding onto much hope that he’ll change.

Well, we can hope for a change… maybe it’ll become too blindingly obvious that mere indifference is a morally repugnant posture, and he’ll do one of his patented “I have always maintained that… ” schticks. Close enough!

208 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:36:36am

re: #200 lawhawk

The precise history is that Obama twiddled his thumbs and took three days to find his voice, and when he did say something, it was the bare minimum.

The Iranian people were the ones who stepped up. Obama will ride the coattails.

so be it…I’m a little embarrassed after thirty years of theocratic repression BO exposed himself like this…all I have is severe contempt

209 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:36:39am

re: #18 yma o hyd

I think the outstanding role played by the iranian women has been severely under-reported in the MFM - and it looks as if the Iranians themselves haven’t had a clue what was coming from them.
Well,being Muslims, that figures!

If this turns into a revolution, then its in no small degree due to the Iranian women.
All power to them!

It is so horribly sad to see those women under the black sacks - I just want to cry when I see it. This awakening is thrilling.

210 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:37:22am
211 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:37:22am

re: #200 lawhawk

The precise history is that Obama twiddled his thumbs and took three days to find his voice, and when he did say something, it was the bare minimum.

The Iranian people were the ones who stepped up. Obama will ride the coattails.

I’m thinking that the “we’re ready to talk with whoever wins” statement might go down in the history books alongside Ambassdor Gillespie’s “hey, Saddam, what goes on between you and Kuwait, not our business!” blunder.

But like you, I’m more interested in the right outcome than in the domestic political “gotca” angle.

212 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:37:34am

re: #194 J.D.

So far Obama has said we shouldn’t meddle.
I’m not holding onto much hope that he’ll change.

We SHOULDN’T meddle. That doesn’t preclude offering recognition and expressing the ideals the US used to stand for; like freedom, human rights, and basic human dignity.

213 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:37:38am

re: #207 Occasional Reader

We shall see.

214 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:38:00am

*snicker* I like tweets that are straight forward

From lotfan: Rumor of the day: (Prince) Reza Pahlavi is going to Iran in the next 48 hours. #gr88 #iranelection

215 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:38:08am

re: #206 yma o hyd

Re the satellites: earlier today there were tweets that the police was systematically destroying satellite dishes in Tehran.

Nevertheless, the point still stands that they won’t shut down the entire country’s infrastructure. Now if Iran is run from one central network that doesn’t use the BGP (I automatically assumed it did), then this could have the desired effect, but it’s really a case of too little, too late. The word is already out.

216 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:38:31am

re: #188 thedopefishlives

You can manually update routing tables, but as long as there are other routers looking at that link, it will be routed around. To the proposed scenarios above, true, shutting down the whole country’s infrastructure would have the desired effect; but that would hamper their own efforts, and the bloggers could use satellite uplinks to escape the Iranian routing network entirely (assuming it’s not an Iranian-owned satellite that’s being linked to).

Hey you! hope today finds you well..
There is no System Admin on a GWAN that would manually update a Router Table….I think it’s because we like having a job…
Satt’s still need to route through Cisco…Everybody needs to run through Core switches and routed on the Net….

217 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:38:33am

re: #212 FurryOldGuyJeans

We SHOULDN’T meddle. That doesn’t preclude offering recognition and expressing the ideals the US used to stand for; like freedom, human rights, and basic human dignity.

I think he qualifies that as meddling… based on what he’s offered up so far.

218 Crimsonfisted  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:38:41am

Didn’t Bush say something about the human soul longing to be free cannot be contained? hmmmm, perhaps he was on to something?

/my contempt for our current leadership is unbound, unleashed, and now too, uncontained

Freedom for all Iranians. May God help them in their struggle.

219 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:38:47am

re: #214 BlueCanuck

*snicker* I like tweets that are straight forward

From lotfan: Rumor of the day: (Prince) Reza Pahlavi is going to Iran in the next 48 hours. #gr88 #iranelection

Now that would be a real interesting event if it were true.

220 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:39:04am

re: #214 BlueCanuck

*snicker* I like tweets that are straight forward

From lotfan: Rumor of the day: (Prince) Reza Pahlavi is going to Iran in the next 48 hours. #gr88 #iranelection

If he went to Iran (Prince) Reza Pahlavi might be hanging from a crane within 24 hours. Stay home, where ever home may be.

221 filetandrelease  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:39:05am

re: #170 karmic_inquisitor
This is happening so fast the thoughts of Syria, Hezbullah et al haven’t crossed my mind yet. But if the Irananian Mularkey falls, it will be a world changing event.

222 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:39:11am

re: #176 KenJen

I wonder if the North Korean people can see what’s going on in Iran. Maybe they’ll get some ideas.

The North Korean people are munching on tree bark and being fed pure propaganda, quite unfortunately. The population is largely brainwashed, and those that aren’t are terrified.

223 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:39:32am

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

With your participation, Puppets for Protesters™ can help!

Puppets for Protesters™ calls on all experienced demonstrators in the US and other Western countries to collect and assemble their papier-mache puppets and floats for immediate transshipment to Iran! If you don’t have any papier-mache monstrosities lying around, filling your living room or cluttering up your garage, your cash donations will help defray the shipping costs of the puppets we do collect!

What about the Giant Duck of Peace™?

224 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:39:45am

Tweet from persiankiwi: our scout at Evin reports many many prisoners being brought and high security outside #Iranelection

225 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:39:56am

re: #211 Occasional Reader

I’m thinking that the “we’re ready to talk with whoever wins” statement might go down in the history books alongside Ambassdor Gillespie’s “hey, Saddam, what goes on between you and Kuwait, not our business!” blunder.

But like you, I’m more interested in the right outcome than in the domestic political “gotca” angle.

history deserves to be written honestly…it’s not a matter of one or the other…the legacy of the event is important too

226 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:39:59am

re: #203 Kenneth

It is very doubtful the ballots could be counted on election night. In previous elections, the results were not heard for a few days. That sounds like a hopeful rumor to me.

Perhaps, perhaps not.
The twitter ‘stop amadi’ does check his reports, and makes a point of designating something as ‘rumour’ or ‘confirmed’.

I can well imagine that the firs coutns were overwhelming, thus the phone call - and i can further imagine that ahmadinejad threw a hissy fit and terrorised some of the Mullahs - as has been reported further upthread in regard to the Khamenei speech which was so unlike any he’d been given previously.

But as of today - we just cannot know anything for certain.

227 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:40:00am

Before I bail for the day, one thing of note -

Thomas Jefferson laid it all out in our Declaration of Independence.

All governments rule under the consent of their people. And when the people have been abused and wronged, they have both the right and obligation to throw off their oppressors.

It is that simple.

It is also why the top 2 amendments in the Bill of Rights focus on the two forces that best restrain government abuse -

1) the right to free speech and assembly

2) the right to bear arms

228 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:40:04am

re: #214 BlueCanuck

Wouldn’t that be a sight!

229 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:40:09am

re: #217 J.D.

I think he qualifies that as meddling… based on what he’s offered up so far.

*sigh* Having that milquetoast RINO McCain being the POTUS sure would be a disaster right now, wouldn’t it?

230 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:40:38am

re: #176 KenJen

I wonder if the North Korean people can see what’s going on in Iran.

No, they can’t. Unfortunately.

They’re watching a film tribute to Kim Jong Il’s perfect golf game at the moment, on the one and only television channel.

231 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:41:01am
232 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:41:11am

re: #223 Macker

What about the Giant Duck of Peace™?

I forgot about him!

233 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:41:14am

re: #214 BlueCanuck

*snicker* I like tweets that are straight forward

From lotfan: Rumor of the day: (Prince) Reza Pahlavi is going to Iran in the next 48 hours. #gr88 #iranelection

48 hours now, is it?
It was 36 hours about five hours ago …

234 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:41:26am

re: #214 BlueCanuck

*snicker* I like tweets that are straight forward

From lotfan: Rumor of the day: (Prince) Reza Pahlavi is going to Iran in the next 48 hours. #gr88 #iranelection

That should mess with some heads. A restored prince playing the role of Khomeini, flying back from exile in triumph?

I’d pay money.

A Spain-style constitutional monarchy might be the best thing for Iran at this point.

[daydreaming]

235 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:41:32am

re: #230 Occasional Reader

No, they can’t. Unfortunately.

They’re watching a film tribute to Kim Jong Il’s perfect golf game at the moment, on the one and only television channel.

18 holes in one stroke, isn’t it?

236 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:41:44am

re: #223 Macker

What about the Giant Duck of Peace™?

Or the Duck of Death?

/channelling Gene Hackman in Unforgiven

237 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:41:46am

re: #210 taxfreekiller

Gov. of Iran can not shut it all down, if they do, they too are not able to comm..

Yes they can. The inherent idea of the internet is routers taking the load from other routers if one goes down. But the whole idea is to keep as many router UP as possible.

Start shutting down the certain ones, and keep others running, block IP and make changes to the DNS server, limit a DNS servers access to address table, yes, they can shut most of it down without loosing government communication and services.

238 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:13am

re: #229 FurryOldGuyJeans

*sigh* Having that milquetoast RINO McCain being the POTUS sure would be a disaster right now, wouldn’t it?

Not of this magnitude, imho.

239 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:24am

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

One of the most impressive images in yesterday’s photos was the picture of the demonstrators protecting an injured policeman.

I suppose they could have been pro-Ahmedinejad demonstrators. But if, as it seemed, they were anti-government demonstrators, the fact that they took the effort to protect someone who would have been injured in the course of attacking them suggests that there is a solidarity among the people that transcends job or uniform, and may really result in a significant regime change.

yes, but only after they strip him of his weapons and body armor

240 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:25am

re: #216 HoosierHoops

Ah, so you’re a sysadmin. I’ll admit, my knowledge of the intertubes is restricted only to what I learned in Data Communications. No practical field experience, you might say. Nevertheless, the technical side of shutting down a service like Twitter to an entire country is a bit daunting, even to a dictatorship that likely retains complete control of its network infrastructure.

241 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:25am

re: #215 thedopefishlives

Nevertheless, the point still stands that they won’t shut down the entire country’s infrastructure. Now if Iran is run from one central network that doesn’t use the BGP (I automatically assumed it did), then this could have the desired effect, but it’s really a case of too little, too late. The word is already out.

It is - and the tweets keep on coming!

242 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:30am

Although no longer an American official, former US President Jimmy Carter represents the policy of the current White House Administration, a senior Hamas man said Tuesday in the wake of Carter’s Gaza tour.

“Carter is not only acting out of his own accord,” Mushir al-Masri told Ynet. “I believe his activity is undertaken in the framework of the American Administration’s policy.”

According to al-Masri, the ideas raised by Carter during his meetings with Hamas’ top brass in Gaza represent American policy.

ynetnews.com

Gee I wonder where they got that idea?

243 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:36am

re: #236 Occasional Reader

Or the Duck of Death?

/channelling Gene Hackman in Unforgiven

“Its Duck of Death I says …”

244 blangwort  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:38am

re: #57 zombie

Also keep in mind that the mothers of these 20-something Iranian girls were themselves “free and westernized” during the Shah era of the ’60s and ’70s — which, despite the secret police and all that, allowed women equal social rights, and they walked around Tehran with no hijabs, full makeup and hairdos, no morality police, etc. It is within very recent memory. I think the young women are sick of having LESS freedom than their own mothers did!

A photo album is the only evidence one would need to let this generation know that things weren’t always this awful.

245 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:48am

re: #230 Occasional Reader

No, they can’t. Unfortunately.

They’re watching a film tribute to Kim Jong Il’s perfect golf game at the moment, on the one and only television channel.

When did they get TV’s?

246 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:42:51am

re: #155 Oh no…Sand People!

Dinnerjacket, “I am Achmadinejad…King of the Iranians…”

protestor: : Oh but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery anti-semite threw a sword at you!

Arthur: SHUT UP!

Dennis: Oh but if I went ‘round sayin’ I was Grand Mufti , just because some moistened apocalyptic bloke lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!

247 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:43:00am

Our Fearless Leader taking a hard stand:

President Barack Obama says he believes supreme leader Ayatollah ali Khamenei has deep concerns about the civil unrest that has followed the hotly contested presidential election there.

Obama repeated Tuesday at a news conference his “deep concerns” about the disputed balloting. He said he believes the ayatollah’s decision to order an investigation “indicates he understands the Iranian people have deep concerns.”

But at the same time, Obama said it would not be helpful if the United States was seen by the world as “meddling” in the issue.

The president did say, however, that he worries “when I see violence directed at peaceful protesters, when I see peaceful protest being suppressed.”

248 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:43:01am

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

Yes they can. The inherent idea of the internet is routers taking the load from other routers if one goes down. But the whole idea is to keep as many router UP as possible.

Start shutting down the certain ones, and keep others running, block IP and make changes to the DNS server, limit a DNS servers access to address table, yes, they can shut most of it down without loosing government communication and services.

A land line with long distance service… I know we cannot imagine dial-up… but it does work in a pinch.

249 opnion  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:43:10am

re: #211 Occasional Reader

I’m thinking that the “we’re ready to talk with whoever wins” statement might go down in the history books alongside Ambassdor Gillespie’s “hey, Saddam, what goes on between you and Kuwait, not our business!” blunder.

But like you, I’m more interested in the right outcome than in the domestic political “gotca” angle.

The other day Biden actually said that he thought that the election may have been stolen, but he didn’t have enough info.(paraphrase)

250 J.S.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:43:13am

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

I tend to suspect that that might be wishful thinking…(was there ever a time in Iran’s history in which the clerics did not play some sort of political role? in other words, what I find as a possible misreading is the refrain about “overthrowing the Mullahs” and putting in place some sort of “secular” government — I just don’t see that occurring…certain clerics may be replaced by other clerics, but the basic structure of the government — rule by Mullahs — imo, will continue…There was a Gallup poll taken — not that long ago — and the majority of Iranians — over 60 percent — were in favor of Sharia law, etc.)

251 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:44:38am

re: #242 Nevergiveup

Although no longer an American official, former US President Jimmy Carter represents the policy of the current White House Administration, a senior Hamas man said Tuesday in the wake of Carter’s Gaza tour.

“Carter is not only acting out of his own accord,” Mushir al-Masri told Ynet. “I believe his activity is undertaken in the framework of the American Administration’s policy.”

According to al-Masri, the ideas raised by Carter during his meetings with Hamas’ top brass in Gaza represent American policy.

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…]

Gee I wonder where they got that idea?

GAH! Doesn’t he have a rambler to frame, or something? Obama and Carter, together…is anybody (who lived through the seventies) worried yet?

252 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:44:39am

re: #243 Radicchio ad Absurdum

“Its Duck of Death I says …”

“This time, the Duck of Death takes his time, and… [puckk]… shoots him right through the liver.”

I sometimes try to practice making that puckk sound. It was very effective.

253 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:44:53am

US: Democratic Party’s Jewish Council denounces Carter
Published: 06.16.09, 19:02 / Israel News
The National Jewish Democratic Council, which serves as a liaison between the organized Jewish community in the United States of America and the Democratic Party, issued an official censure of former US President Jimmy Carter, after Fox News reported he urged US President Barack Obama to remove Hamas from the US terror-group list.

The NJDC urged to “remove” Carter from the list of people deserving of attention. (Yitzhak Benhorin, Washington)

If these fucks had not voted for Obama this might even be funny?

254 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:45:06am

re: #247 HelloDare

Our Fearless Leader taking a hard stand:

President Barack Obama says he believes supreme leader Ayatollah ali Khamenei has deep concerns about the civil unrest that has followed the hotly contested presidential election there.

Obama repeated Tuesday at a news conference his “deep concerns” about the disputed balloting. He said he believes the ayatollah’s decision to order an investigation “indicates he understands the Iranian people have deep concerns.”

But at the same time, Obama said it would not be helpful if the United States was seen by the world as “meddling” in the issue.

The president did say, however, that he worries “when I see violence directed at peaceful protesters, when I see peaceful protest being suppressed.”

slowly inching closer to total irrelevance

255 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:45:24am

re: #251 capitalist piglet

GAH! Doesn’t he have a rambler to frame, or something? Obama and Carter, together…is anybody (who lived through the seventies) worried yet?

Me me me me me!

256 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:45:29am

re: #252 Occasional Reader

AAAAAAFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCC!

257 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:45:44am
258 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:46:13am

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

Yes they can. The inherent idea of the internet is routers taking the load from other routers if one goes down. But the whole idea is to keep as many router UP as possible.

Start shutting down the certain ones, and keep others running, block IP and make changes to the DNS server, limit a DNS servers access to address table, yes, they can shut most of it down without loosing government communication and services.

There are key routers, called backbones, that if they are taken out seriously cripple the flow without stopping it entirely. The internet is not truly distributed.

But the DNS servers are an adjunct of the World Wide Web, which is an overlay onto the internet. Provide a direct IP address (XXXX.XXXX.XXXX.XXXX) and things continue on.

259 Land Shark  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:46:36am

That woman was amazing! They beat up on her and she bounces right back and doesn’t miss a beat. What courage. These people in Iran will not be cowed. I wonder what’s the situation outside Tehran, are people demonstrating there too?

We may be witnessing history folks. God bless the Iranian people and may they’re courage be rewarded with sweet freedom.

Meanwhile, our stumble bum President and his kindergarten administration bumbles along…

260 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:46:42am

re: #252 Occasional Reader

“This time, the Duck of Death takes his time, and… [puckk]… shoots him right through the liver.”

I sometimes try to practice making that puckk sound. It was very effective.

Gonna do the part about “two guns?”/

261 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:46:51am

re: #254 albusteve

slowly inching closer to total irrelevance

A random word generator hooked up to a teleprompter could have released a better statement.

262 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:46:57am

re: #250 J.S.

I tend to suspect that that might be wishful thinking…(was there ever a time in Iran’s history in which the clerics did not play some sort of political role? in other words, what I find as a possible misreading is the refrain about “overthrowing the Mullahs” and putting in place some sort of “secular” government — I just don’t see that occurring…certain clerics may be replaced by other clerics, but the basic structure of the government — rule by Mullahs — imo, will continue…There was a Gallup poll taken — not that long ago — and the majority of Iranians — over 60 percent — were in favor of Sharia law, etc.)

Sharia Law and Islam itself can reform….hopey/changy maybe

263 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:47:01am

re: #247 HelloDare

President Barack Obama says he believes supreme leader Ayatollah ali Khamenei has deep concerns about the civil unrest that has followed the hotly contested presidential election there.

Oh. My. God.

I wanted to give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this whole situation. I swear I really did. But now he’s gone beyond mere finger-in-the wind aloofness, to actually making the mullahcracy’s talking points for it. Disgusting.

264 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:47:19am

re: #240 thedopefishlives

Ah, so you’re a sysadmin. I’ll admit, my knowledge of the intertubes is restricted only to what I learned in Data Communications. No practical field experience, you might say. Nevertheless, the technical side of shutting down a service like Twitter to an entire country is a bit daunting, even to a dictatorship that likely retains complete control of its network infrastructure.

Because the router tables can be controlled…The only way to get out is using a Proxie server on a Private IP….10.x.x.x. It’s tricky.But is doable.

265 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:47:33am

I stayed home from church Sunday with a sick child, so I checked out my church’s website, looking for a broadcast or a podcast to listen to. I found an interview with a man who had escaped from East Germany about 1950.

He said that the air had felt oppressive in East Germany, that you weren’t free to say what you thought, that you were always wondering about other people and whether you could trust them, that it was very depressing and how they had appreciated coming to America, and the differences.

Here’s hoping that the air in Iran changes very soon.

266 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:47:42am

re: #263 Occasional Reader

There you go!

267 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:47:47am

Election or Selection?

Iran’s elections are considered extremely unfair and the Islamist government does not allow international monitors to be present. The ruling clerics put their stamp on the elections from the very beginning by deciding who can run. It is really a joke. More than 470 people sought to join the presidential race, but only Ahmadinejad and three rivals were cleared.

However, the turnout was massive, a near record high 85 percent of Iran’s 49.2 million eligible voters. Based on the information from Mousavi’s website , a group of Interior Ministry employees have leaked out the following results which seem to be closer to reality than the one released by the establishment:

Total eligible: 49.2 Million

Participated in the election: 75% to 85%
Mir Hussein Mousavi: 45%
Mehdi Karoobi: 33%
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 13%
Mohsen Rezai: 9%

Cancelled votes: 3%

It is clear that Mr. Mir Hussein Mousavi won the election by a large margin.

268 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:48:27am

re: #230 Occasional Reader

No, they can’t. Unfortunately.

They’re watching a film tribute to Kim Jong Il’s perfect golf game at the moment, on the one and only television channel.

On the one and only TV…

269 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:48:28am

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Oh. My. God.

I wanted to give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this whole situation. I swear I really did. But now he’s gone beyond mere finger-in-the wind aloofness, to actually making the mullahcracy’s talking points for it. Disgusting.

He is starting to get worried he won’t know who to apologize to any more.

270 MJ  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:48:40am

Was just reading Obama’s comments from yesterday:

Now, with respect to the United States and our interactions with Iran, I’ve always believed that as odious as I consider some of President Ahmadinejad’s statements, as deep as the differences that exist between the United States and Iran on a range of core issues, that the use of tough, hard-headed diplomacy — diplomacy with no illusions about Iran and the nature of the differences between our two countries — is critical when it comes to pursuing a core set of our national security interests, specifically, making sure that we are not seeing a nuclear arms race in the Middle East triggered by Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon; making sure that Iran is not exporting terrorist activity.

There is no such thing as “tough, hard-headed diplomacy” unless it’s backed up by willingness to use force or, at the very least, that the other side believes you will use force when necessary.

Does anyone in Iran or anywhere else in the world believe for one moment that Obama would use force to further American interests?

271 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:49:21am

re: #261 HelloDare

A random word generator hooked up to a teleprompter could have released a better statement.

Oh, completely. The random word generator at least would (probably) not have implicitly lent credence to the idea that the Grand Super Duper Ayatollah really wants a fair, just outcome, and has the best interests of the Iranian people at heart.

272 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:49:37am

re: #263 Occasional Reader

The Dems have tougher words for Palin than the Mullahs.

273 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:49:43am
274 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:49:51am

re: #266 J.D.

There you go!

In reference to my previous post to you: “Never mind”.

/Emily Litella voice

275 J.S.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:50:20am

re: #257 buzzsawmonkey

I don’t believe there was any 40 percent stating a disapproval of Sharia law…wait a second…I’ll look up the link.

276 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:50:34am

re: #272 HelloDare

The Dems have tougher words for Palin than the Mullahs.

well they do see her as more dangerous to them…

277 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:50:38am

re: #192 Buck

I would really like to flush out that rumor that Hezbollah and Hamas were being used as riot police in Iran.

The Palestinians have a real track record of backing the wrong horse (Saddam). The backlash would be interesting if they do it again here.

I believe I commented on that on the overnight dead thread. My comment was probably too late for anyone to note, but it was very, very much on topic.

278 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:50:40am

re: #257 buzzsawmonkey

I would argue that 40% of the polled populace being willing to come out against sharia while living under a sharia system enforced by secret police suggests that the support for sharia law is by no means 60%

I distrust polls here where there is not real threat or intimidation inherent. Any polls from a thugocracy I trust even less, if that is possible.

279 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:50:43am

re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans

There are key routers, called backbones, that if they are taken out seriously cripple the flow without stopping it entirely. The internet is not truly distributed.

But the DNS servers are an adjunct of the World Wide Web, which is an overlay onto the internet. Provide a direct IP address (XXXX.XXXX.XXXX.XXXX) and things continue on.

I know this, but everything I said is true, and the general public do not communicate by IP addresses alone.

My overall point is the Iranian government CAN limit access tot he internet for the general public, while at the same time, not loosing all of their government computing power and needs.

The internet is redundant, in an effort to keep it up, in a situation where everyone involved WANTS it up. At a certain point down pipe, if someone wants to cut it off, they can.

280 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:51:10am

re: #271 Occasional Reader

Oh, completely. The random word generator at least would (probably) not have implicitly lent credence to the idea that the Grand Super Duper Ayatollah really wants a fair, just outcome, and has the best interests of the Iranian people at heart.

Wonder how much time was spent putting those words together. And I wonder what was rejected for not being tough enough

281 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:51:33am

re: #250 J.S.

I tend to suspect that that might be wishful thinking…(was there ever a time in Iran’s history in which the clerics did not play some sort of political role? in other words, what I find as a possible misreading is the refrain about “overthrowing the Mullahs” and putting in place some sort of “secular” government — I just don’t see that occurring…certain clerics may be replaced by other clerics, but the basic structure of the government — rule by Mullahs — imo, will continue…There was a Gallup poll taken — not that long ago — and the majority of Iranians — over 60 percent — were in favor of Sharia law, etc.)

yuck. why I hope at the expense of the Iranians that it gets worse before it gets better….. get 60% anti sharia - anti forcible conversion of infidels - ambivalent to Jews

282 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:51:41am

“The U.S. Doesn’t Want to be Seen As Meddling” [Seth Leibsohn]

That’s the take-away line from President Obama on Iran. That’s not going to do it. One can imagine hundreds (if not thousands) of protesters in Iran asking “Where is the U.S.? What does Obama think?”
Well, he thinks we shouldn’t meddle. He thinks that “we respect Iranian sovereignty.” He thinks that the violence there is “troubling.”

Organic protests of reform rise up too infrequently in tyrannies and someone needs to show these students and these protesters that someone is on their side, that someone gives a damn about them. Our administration’s talk of continuing to press for open dialogue with the leaders of Iran was not and is not appropriate right now.

As Vaclav Havel said yesterday, “Expressions of solidarity with those who are defending human rights, with students and others, are important.” Yes they are, and to reassert respect—that’s the word the president used, “respect”—for Iran’s sovereignty at a time of a stolen and fraudulent election, with brutality on the
streets being committed against those demonstrating against the fraudulent election, in a regime that is the lead sponsor of terror in the Middle East, that thwarts weapons inspections as it attempts to nuclearize itself, and speaks of a world without Israel or America … well, respect for its sovereignty it the last thing the U.S. should be standing for.

The U.S. can stand with democratic reformers or with brutal thugs in any given country. It can give hope or take it. It cannot do both. To paraphrase John F. Kennedy: In times of great moral crisis, we should not be maintaining our neutrality. Diplomacy is one thing, freedom is another—and for all of us who have wanted non-military inspired freedom to take root in Iran, that moment may be upon us (I emphasize the word “may”) and standing by our principle of neutrality and respect for that which we hope to end is the opposite of what we should be doing. Freedom has always had its limits, but so too should diplomacy.

Mossavi may not be Thomas Jefferson, but as Michael Ledeen keenly pointed out: “he is a leader who has been made into a revolutionary by a movement that grew up around him.” And in any event, he is the “not-Ahmadinejad.”

This may not be Iran’s Tiananmen moment, but it sure is ours.

283 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:51:50am

re: #265 EmmmieG

Have you seen the film “The Lives of Others?” It’s an excellent portrayal of life in East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down…

284 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:51:56am

re: #242 Nevergiveup

Although no longer an American official, former US President Jimmy Carter represents the policy of the current White House Administration, a senior Hamas man said Tuesday in the wake of Carter’s Gaza tour.

“Carter is not only acting out of his own accord,” Mushir al-Masri told Ynet. “I believe his activity is undertaken in the framework of the American Administration’s policy.”

According to al-Masri, the ideas raised by Carter during his meetings with Hamas’ top brass in Gaza represent American policy.

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…]

Gee I wonder where they got that idea?

You’ll be sure to put up a link when the administration denies that allegation, won’t you?

Sure you will.

285 MJ  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:52:21am

re: #273 buzzsawmonkey

I believe that he would be willing to use force to coerce Israel into creating a “Palestinian state.”

True, but I qualified it by saying use of force in American Interests. Since the creation of a Palestinian State is NOT in American Interest, then the statement still stands….

286 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:53:01am

re: #274 Occasional Reader

In reference to my previous post to you: “Never mind”.

/Emily Litella voice

Oops! So sorry! It’s these fingers… they have a mind of their own!

287 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:53:33am
288 brucee  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:53:34am

re: #247 HelloDare

Our Fearless Leader taking a hard stand:

President Barack Obama says he believes supreme leader Ayatollah ali Khamenei has deep concerns about the civil unrest that has followed the hotly contested presidential election there…


He does have deep concerns, but different type of concern from what Obama thinks.

Khamenei was there last time when necks were introduced to ropes. He might end up on the unfortunate side this time though.

289 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:53:46am

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Oh. My. God.

I wanted to give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this whole situation. I swear I really did. But now he’s gone beyond mere finger-in-the wind aloofness, to actually making the mullahcracy’s talking points for it. Disgusting.

I imagine he’s quite upset that this “little protest” is getting in the way of his negotiations with Dinnerjacket and his opportunity to show the world that he can make Iran’s fist unclench.

290 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:54:15am

re: #284 Cato the Elder

I never said it was the admins policy did I. I just wondered where they got that idea. They certianly didn’t have that feeling under the Bush Administration did they? If you want to disagree with me do so, but don’t be insulting.

291 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:54:26am

re: #287 buzzsawmonkey

I saw that one; “Beast with Five Fingers,” wasn’t it?

Hi Buzzsaw…Hope you are doing well todaY!

292 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:54:38am

re: #289 Wendya

I imagine he’s quite upset that this “little protest” is getting in the way of his negotiations with Dinnerjacket and his opportunity to show the world that he can make Iran’s fist unclench.

Tough to unclench a fist that is wrapped around the throat of a protester.

293 Dave the.....  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:55:14am

Not that we are expecting a western style democracy to show up in Iran, but this is one of the reason (supposedly) why Bush wanted to invade Iraq. Set up a liberal democracy that would then spread to other mideast countries. Once the oppressed see what was hopped to be a model country, they’d want one themselves.

294 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:55:14am

re: #279 Walter L. Newton

I know this, but everything I said is true, and the general public do not communicate by IP addresses alone.

My overall point is the Iranian government CAN limit access tot he internet for the general public, while at the same time, not loosing all of their government computing power and needs.

The internet is redundant, in an effort to keep it up, in a situation where everyone involved WANTS it up. At a certain point down pipe, if someone wants to cut it off, they can.

Ah, ok, I misread what you had said.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, and definitely not directed at you Walter:

Now is not the time to be stealing bandwidth from the Iranian citizens fighting for the future of their country by doing hack attacks. The attacks are only helping the Mullahs by isolating the people.

295 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:55:39am

I can’ help wondering what Putin is making of all this …
Is he giving ahmadinejad some advice, learned in the war against the Chechens?
Or is he thinking about ways to stifle his own opposition?
I’m sure young, tech-savvy Russians are watching this all!

296 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:55:50am
297 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:56:14am

OT.

I’m thinking that the computer industry may owe Charles Johnson a vote of thanks.

Why? Try as I may, I can’t get my old second-hand ‘puter box to reliably stay logged on without freezing up, or running so slowly as to make the experience less than optimal.

But, on the plus side, I guess that every time I log back on, that’s one more uptick in the statistics.

298 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:56:29am

re: #292 Radicchio ad Absurdum

Tough to unclench a fist that is wrapped around the throat of a protester.

Yes, but that’s not his problem, now is it? Once the protesters are taken care of, Barack can bring freedom to Iran with Hope and Change.

//

299 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:56:31am

re: #283 scottishbuzzsaw

Have you seen the film “The Lives of Others?” It’s an excellent portrayal of life in East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down…

I’ve heard of it. I wouldn’t sleep for a while if I tried to watch it. For some reason, I can handle reality better than fiction with intense stuff like this.

300 MJ  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:56:53am

OK, I don’t normally quote Middle East Progress but they have a good summary of Iran’s National Security Framework- who controls what within Iran:

June 16, 2009
Supreme Leader
• Designated the political and religious leader of the Islamic republic.
• Controls all critical foreign policy decisions.
• Appoints the six religious members of the Council of Guardians.
• Appoints the head of the judiciary, leader of the state-run media and the top military officials.
• Commands the armed forces, decides when to mobilize the military and is the only person who can declare war and peace.
• Possesses final authority over all decisions and recommendations made by the Supreme Council for National Security.

Guardian Council of the Constitution
• A 12-member group, 6 theologians and 6 lay jurists that can veto laws and treaties passed by the legislature.
• Vets candidates for the presidency, legislature and Assembly of Experts.

President
• Holds the second-highest office after the supreme leader.
• Highest-elected official in Iran and holder of the most visible public office.
• Presides over the Supreme Council for National Security, but cannot veto its decisions; signs treaties approved by the legislative body; and accepts the credentials of ambassadors.
• Heads the executive branch and is responsible for appointing cabinet ministers.
• All candidates pre-screened by the Council of Guardians after declaring candidacy.

Supreme National Security Council
• Runs the country’s security policy framework as determined by the supreme leader.
• Composed of the heads of the executive, legislative and judiciary branches, as well as military leaders and other senior officials.

Assembly of Experts
• Directly-elected group of 86 clerics charged with electing and supervising the supreme leader. All have to possess religious authority to issue fatwa.

Majlis
• The 290-seat legislative body approves all treaties and international agreements.

Expediency Discernment Council
• Advises the supreme leader on policy.
• Resolves disputes between the Majlis and the Council of Guardians.

Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps
• Established to safeguard the revolution; reports directly to the supreme leader.
• Former members occupy top political positions in the Ahmadinejad government.
• Operates separately from the regular armed forces and maintains parallel branches, including ground, air, naval, intelligence and strategic operations.
• Possesses control of Iran’s strategic rockets and missiles.

The Quds Force
• Responsible for supporting strategic operations outside the country for the IRGC.
• Labeled a terrorist organization by the Bush administration in 2007.
• Accused by the United States of supplying munitions and other military support to Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Taliban in Afghanistan and militants in Iraq.

Armed Forces
• Responsible for guarding the independence and territorial integrity of the country.

Links are provided at the website:
middleeastprogress.org

301 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:56:56am

re: #289 Wendya

I imagine he’s quite upset that this “little protest” is getting in the way of his negotiations with Dinnerjacket and his opportunity to show the world that he can make Iran’s fist unclench.

The only unclenching he was going to do was when he did his abject groveling while apologizing.

302 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:56:57am

re: #296 buzzsawmonkey

but I offered you some bridge mix

I don’t think I heard you right… “bridge mix”?… please tappan zee microphone, let’s get a sound check.

303 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:57:22am

re: #288 brucee

He does have deep concerns, but different type of concern from what Obama thinks.

Khamenei was there last time when necks were introduced to ropes. He might end up on the unfortunate side this time though.

They don’t care about the Iranian people. Was it Ayatollah Rafsanjani who said that it would be okay if Iran lost 15 million people if they could lose Israel in the bargain? It was one of those guys.

304 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:57:26am

re: #295 yma o hyd

I can’ help wondering what Putin is making of all this ...
Is he giving ahmadinejad some advice, learned in the war against the Chechens?
Or is he thinking about ways to stifle his own opposition?
I’m sure young, tech-savvy Russians are watching this all!

do NOT fuck around with pissed off Persian girls?

305 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:57:54am
306 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:58:02am

not to detract much from the important goings on in Iran, but theis Smoking of Mike Wallace of CBS by morgan Freeman isa must see

joshuapundit.blogspot.com

307 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:58:10am

Two observations.

1. This is to Twitter, what Gulf War I was to CNN.

2. This counter-revolution belongs to Iran’s women.

308 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:58:25am

re: #296 buzzsawmonkey

Jes’ fine. I don’t know if you saw it, but I offered you some bridge mix in the overnight thread—just in case you were feeling bereft of nuts.

okay…I’m stealing that one too

309 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:58:33am

re: #296 buzzsawmonkey

Jes’ fine. I don’t know if you saw it, but I offered you some bridge mix in the overnight thread—just in case you were feeling bereft of nuts.

I’m a damn nut less monkey! LOL
That was pretty funny…..

310 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:58:38am

re: #305 buzzsawmonkey

Brooklyn bridge mix—we have a wide variety of nuts here.

careful now…

311 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:58:42am

re: #300 MJ

OK, I don’t normally quote Middle East Progress but they have a good summary of Iran’s National Security Framework- who controls what within Iran:

June 16, 2009
Supreme Leader
• Designated the political and religious leader of the Islamic republic.
• Controls all critical foreign policy decisions.
• Appoints the six religious members of the Council of Guardians.
• Appoints the head of the judiciary, leader of the state-run media and the top military officials.
• Commands the armed forces, decides when to mobilize the military and is the only person who can declare war and peace.
• Possesses final authority over all decisions and recommendations made by the Supreme Council for National Security.

Guardian Council of the Constitution
• A 12-member group, 6 theologians and 6 lay jurists that can veto laws and treaties passed by the legislature.
• Vets candidates for the presidency, legislature and Assembly of Experts.

President
• Holds the second-highest office after the supreme leader.
• Highest-elected official in Iran and holder of the most visible public office.
• Presides over the Supreme Council for National Security, but cannot veto its decisions; signs treaties approved by the legislative body; and accepts the credentials of ambassadors.
• Heads the executive branch and is responsible for appointing cabinet ministers.
• All candidates pre-screened by the Council of Guardians after declaring candidacy.

Supreme National Security Council
• Runs the country’s security policy framework as determined by the supreme leader.
• Composed of the heads of the executive, legislative and judiciary branches, as well as military leaders and other senior officials.

Assembly of Experts
• Directly-elected group of 86 clerics charged with electing and supervising the supreme leader. All have to possess religious authority to issue fatwa.

Majlis
• The 290-seat legislative body approves all treaties and international agreements.

Expediency Discernment Council
• Advises the supreme leader on policy.
• Resolves disputes between the Majlis and the Council of Guardians.

Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps
• Established to safeguard the revolution; reports directly to the supreme leader.
• Former members occupy top political positions in the Ahmadinejad government.
• Operates separately from the regular armed forces and maintains parallel branches, including ground, air, naval, intelligence and strategic operations.
• Possesses control of Iran’s strategic rockets and missiles.

The Quds Force
• Responsible for supporting strategic operations outside the country for the IRGC.
• Labeled a terrorist organization by the Bush administration in 2007.
• Accused by the United States of supplying munitions and other military support to Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Taliban in Afghanistan and militants in Iraq.

Armed Forces
• Responsible for guarding the independence and territorial integrity of the country.

Links are provided at the website:
[Link: middleeastprogress.org…]

The former Soviet Union looked adamantine solid right up until it started to collapse and crumble from Gorbachev’s Perestroika.

312 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:58:52am

re: #283 scottishbuzzsaw
HIYA cuz! Doing good? Hope so. Good to see ya

313 jill e  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:59:04am

I heard Al Franken’s flying over to help with the counting.

314 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:59:29am

re: #294 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ah, ok, I misread what you had said.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, and definitely not directed at you Walter:

Now is not the time to be stealing bandwidth from the Iranian citizens fighting for the future of their country by doing hack attacks. The attacks are only helping the Mullahs by isolating the people.

Agreed, that’s why I was questioning the DOS attacks that some have touted. That sort of multiple hits on routers and dns servers, outside and inside of Iran, will only slow down (or take down) a lot of the same pipes that the public are using.

Just because someone targets a certain IP address, it doesn’t mean that your request only puts a strain on the single server that has the data you are requesting.

Your request is bouncing around may routers, servers, pipes and so on, and common sense would tell you that trying to overload the pipes into Iran will effect EVERYONE.

Self defeating.

315 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:59:43am

re: #287 buzzsawmonkey

I saw that one; “Beast with Five Fingers,” wasn’t it?


gawd, thats from the 50s isn’t it?

316 J.S.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:59:56am

Here’s the poll taken by Gallup last year….In Iran 77 percent fell into 2 categories (63% Sharia must be a source of legislation, but not the only source; plus 14% who believe Sharia must be the only source of legislation) versus 13% (Sharia shouldn’t be a source of legislation), and 11 % who refused to answer the question or claimed not to know…

317 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:00:03pm

re: #295 yma o hyd

I can’ help wondering what Putin is making of all this …
Is he giving ahmadinejad some advice, learned in the war against the Chechens?
Or is he thinking about ways to stifle his own opposition?
I’m sure young, tech-savvy Russians are watching this all!

At a guess? He’s got some section of his secret police working very, very hard on disinformation strategy and tactics. If you can’t shut the information systems down, turn them to your advantage.

318 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:00:13pm

re: #305 buzzsawmonkey

Brooklyn bridge mix—we have a wide variety of nuts here.

That sort of attitude truly, verrezanily narrows the mind.

319 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:00:14pm

re: #287 buzzsawmonkey

I saw that one; “Beast with Five Fingers,” wasn’t it?


the five fingered beast

320 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:00:32pm
321 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:00:50pm

So they’re busing in prisoners now. Wow. I so wish I was a fly on the wall of the halls of decision in Tehran! Of course, considering how they’re all probably crapping their pants, there would be a lot of flies to compete with!

322 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:00:58pm

re: #309 HoosierHoops

I’m a damn nut less monkey! LOL
That was pretty funny…..

I did not know this about you! ;>)

323 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:01:14pm

re: #272 HelloDare

The Dems have tougher words for Palin than the Mullahs.

That’s because Palin is a threat. The Mullahs are, let’s just say, more in line with their thinking. The Dems have power now. The Mullahs have power now.

Sweet./// There is no difference in their ambition. The Dems (OB) have no incentive to rock any boat that agrees with their charted course.

America’s (our) best interest is not on the agenda of this administration.

324 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:01:23pm

re: #306 Jewels (AKA Julian)
Love that Morgan Freeman!
That should shown on loop nation wide!

325 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:01:43pm

re: #314 Walter L. Newton

Agreed, that’s why I was questioning the DOS attacks that some have touted. That sort of multiple hits on routers and dns servers, outside and inside of Iran, will only slow down (or take down) a lot of the same pipes that the public are using.

Just because someone targets a certain IP address, it doesn’t mean that your request only puts a strain on the single server that has the data you are requesting.

Your request is bouncing around may routers, servers, pipes and so on, and common sense would tell you that trying to overload the pipes into Iran will effect EVERYONE.

Self defeating.

And need we add, criminal by US Code to boot?

326 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:01:47pm

re: #314 Walter L. Newton

Agreed, that’s why I was questioning the DOS attacks that some have touted. That sort of multiple hits on routers and dns servers, outside and inside of Iran, will only slow down (or take down) a lot of the same pipes that the public are using.

Just because someone targets a certain IP address, it doesn’t mean that your request only puts a strain on the single server that has the data you are requesting.

Your request is bouncing around may routers, servers, pipes and so on, and common sense would tell you that trying to overload the pipes into Iran will effect EVERYONE.

Self defeating.

so then, what exactly is the usefulness of this strategy?….hmmm

327 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:02:00pm

re: #321 Irenicum

So they’re busing in prisoners now. Wow. I so wish I was a fly on the wall of the halls of decision in Tehran! Of course, considering how they’re all probably crapping their pants, there would be a lot of flies to compete with!

People that evil and vicious do not sit around crapping in their pants.

328 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:02:07pm

re: #317 Dianna

At a guess? He’s got some section of his secret police working very, very hard on disinformation strategy and tactics. If you can’t shut the information systems down, turn them to your advantage.

Yep, he would do that …

However, as we all know, Russia is also home to some otustanding - unfortunately criminal - hackers, who would certainly know how to out-wit Putin and his cohorts as far as cyberwar is concerned.

329 quiet man  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:02:09pm

I am guessing that “students” are getting ready to storm Mullah central and take hostages against the greater Satan.

/hopeinCHANGE

330 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:02:38pm
331 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:02:46pm

Gotta go to work. Things seem to be slowing down from some feeds. Asking for DDOS attacks on specific sites. Not posting those through. See you all in an hour or so.

332 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:02:48pm

re: #303 HelloDare

They don’t care about the Iranian people. Was it Ayatollah Rafsanjani who said that it would be okay if Iran lost 15 million people if they could lose Israel in the bargain? It was one of those guys.

yep, don’t think he was counting the , iraqis, syrians, jordanians, egyptians, trans-jord-gyptins in the mix either.

333 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:02:54pm

re: #318 Occasional Reader

You’re preaching the gothels to the choir. Holland’ as loud as you can brotha’! /

334 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:03:16pm

re: #312 apachegunner

HIYA cuz! Doing good? Hope so. Good to see ya

Howdy, Cousin! After a recent interaction with my son (turns 27 tomorrow) I am reminded of the Cosby dad saying, “I brought you into this world, and I can take you out!” Other than that, all is well. How goes life with you?

335 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:03:56pm

re: #282 J.D.

Obama doesn’t want to be seen as meddling into Iran’s affairs but it’s o.k. to strong arm Israel into a two state solution? I guess picking and choosing the easy stuff and leaving the tough decisions to someone else of a more higher pay grade is Obama’s policy, 2012 come quickly.

336 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:04:01pm

From ‘persiankiwi’:
‘1000’s on balconys - tehran is alive with sound of freedom - marg bar dictator’

And those are normal folk - not just young, hot-headed dissidents!

337 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:04:06pm

re: #283 scottishbuzzsaw

Have you seen the film “The Lives of Others?” It’s an excellent portrayal of life in East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down…

I thought it was hideously boring.

338 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:04:06pm

re: #320 buzzsawmonkey

Try 1946.


yes, I was two

339 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:01pm

re: #306 Jewels (AKA Julian)

not to detract much from the important goings on in Iran, but theis Smoking of Mike Wallace of CBS by morgan Freeman isa must see

[Link: joshuapundit.blogspot.com…]

WOW!

A lightning bolt of sense out of Hollywood, of all places!

(Speaking for myself, whenever I imagined “first black American president”, the part was always played in my mind by Morgan Freeman.)

340 Land Shark  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:10pm

“President Barack Obama says he believes supreme leader Ayatollah ali Khamenei has deep concerns about the civil unrest that has followed the hotly contested presidential election there”

Yeah, I bet. Khamenei main concern is he might get his neck stretched along with the rest of the Mullah scum if the people succeed in their efforts. Plus the situation is messing with 0bama’s apology tour schedule as well. How can 0bama apologize to Ahmadingbat for the US opposing the terrorist scum? I bet the Teleprompter is pissed off big time!

341 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:26pm

re: #330 MandyManners

CNN might want to see if it can rehire Eason Jordan so that it can start covering the riots again.

Oh, can they please bring back Bernie Shaw?!?!

342 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:35pm

re: #326 albusteve

so then, what exactly is the usefulness of this strategy?….hmmm

It’s not, unless you want to slow down ALL IP communication in and out of Iran. Hackers who know what they are doing could bring down certain government servers possibly (and no, I am not recommending any hacking tips), and people INSIDE the government who have certain access could effect certain things.

But, a general DOS attack is sort of slapdash, and can effect the people who need the communication outlets the most.

343 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:40pm

I assume ‘Marg Bar’ is Pharsi. what does it mean?

344 opnion  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:47pm

I can still picture the ailing Shah & his wife leaving Iran. Videos that followed were of military officers being executed & other atrocities & the of course the taking of American hostages.
it was all courtesy of Jimmy Carter.
Now I would like to see the Mullahs booted out.

345 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:50pm

re: #322 scottishbuzzsaw

I did not know this about you! ;>)

Yup that’s me!
I wanted to say something..
Charles: Don’t say it
Me: Please
Charles: Don’t say it Hoopster
Me: Ok.Dang it….ah well
Charles: Don’t say it…
Me: Ok dokey…..:)
LOL

346 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:05:52pm

Remember what his name publishing that he had information that Bush was going to invade Iran?

I wonder how he and his supporters work out that it never happened?

347 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:06:14pm

re: #326 albusteve

so then, what exactly is the usefulness of this strategy?….hmmm

ABSOLUTELY a waste of resources that are vitally needed by the people fighting and dying for the future of their country. Doing DOS and other hack attacks is not useful one bit.

Internet bandwidth is a limited resource, especially in Iran right now. Sending hack packets is preventing twitter packets from being sent. The Mullahs and Ahmadinejad are smiling at the help they are getting from the oh so brave hackers hiding behind their monitors right now.

And hacking is a criminal offense here in the US.

348 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:06:15pm

From stop amadi:

‘If they cutting off internet & phone/SMS; we’ll be taking down their sites’

‘Our demand: Give back our internet/SMS/phones and we’ll stop DDoS your sites ‘

349 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:06:22pm

re: #335 dapperdave

Obama doesn’t want to be seen as meddling into Iran’s affairs but it’s o.k. to strong arm Israel into a two state solution? I guess picking and choosing the easy stuff and leaving the tough decisions to someone else of a more higher pay grade is Obama’s policy, 2012 come quickly.

I’d give you many, many more updings if I could.

350 HarryTheHawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:06:34pm

Heh…soon we’ll start seeing this type of thing happen at the “tea parties”

351 drider  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:06:36pm

I wonder if Obama feels a rush of power when he tells those Iranian people who are about to get mowed down by the Iranian hardliners, that their fate is in their hands or if their universal voices will be heard over the barrage of machine gun bursts?

All those health care cuts that won’t need to be cut in Iran now, I bet Obama is just green with envy.

352 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:07:00pm

re: #343 Jewels (AKA Julian)

I assume ‘Marg Bar’ is Pharsi. what does it mean?

‘Death to’, iirc!

353 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:07:16pm

re: #343 Jewels (AKA Julian)

I assume ‘Marg Bar’ is Pharsi. what does it mean?

“Death to”.

354 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:07:35pm

re: #335 dapperdave

Obama doesn’t want to be seen as meddling into Iran’s affairs but it’s o.k. to strong arm Israel into a two state solution? I guess picking and choosing the easy stuff and leaving the tough decisions to someone else of a more higher pay grade is Obama’s policy, 2012 come quickly.

I’d have to say he’s got it wrong on all counts. I am counting the days!

355 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:07:52pm

re: #343 Jewels (AKA Julian)

I assume ‘Marg Bar’ is Pharsi. what does it mean?

Don’t you remember Marg Bar, the female dead truck driver in “Pee Wee Big Adventure?”

356 Rancher  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:07:57pm

Vaclav Havel said yesterday, “Expressions of solidarity with those who are defending human rights, with students and others, are important.”

Regime change becomes possible when at least the outline of a political alternative becomes visible. Like nature, society abhors a vacuum.

In the case of Iran, that vacuum cannot be filled by the dozen or so groups in exile, although each could have a role in shaping a broad national alternative. What is still needed is an internal political opposition that can act as the nucleus of a future government. The ingredients of such a nucleus exist already. However, such a nucleus cannot be created so long as the fear persists that the United States and its allies might reach an accommodation with the regime and leave Iranian dissidents in the lurch.

The Persian Night: Iran under the Khomeinist Revolution

357 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:02pm

Is anybody updating?

From 2ahmed:

Americans in Iran find safety at Swiss Embassy located at No 39, Shahid Mousavi (Golestan 5th) Pasdaran Avenue, Tehran. #iranelection

US State Department asking twitter to limit shut down for maintenance to a minimum. Keep Iranian tweets coming.

Mousavi declined Guardian council’s offer 2 recount the votes. He says election must be declared illegitimate. #iranelection

we’ve decided to donate blood. there is a serious lack of blood in hospitals. #iranelection

RT:@Mirriaam1 of my friends reports from Azadi that special forces r beating ppl most brutally. lots of ppl r badly injured. #iranelection

Iran09:
RT: @sadenshi: State Department to Twitter: Keep Iranian tweets coming reaiu.tk #Iranelection #CNN #GR88 #Twitter #Iran

RT: @lotfan: Mohseni is threatening that he Intelligence Ministry will arrest and Convict protesters #gr88

StopAhmadi:
Internet, SMS, Phones.. everything very limited in Iran #gr88 #iranelection

They’re cutting off all connections now, Google Talk, Yahoo Messenger Twitter.. #gr88 #iranelection

News: Todays’ protest was massive in amount of ppl, maybe more than yesterday #gr88 #iranelection

News: The massive protest today was VERY quiet n calm, no big fights only some few got beaten #gr88 #iranelection

If they cutting off internet & phone/SMS; we’ll be taking down their sites #gr88 #iranelection

Our demand: Give back our internet/SMS/phones and we’ll stop DDoS your sites #gr88 #iranelection


PersianKiwi:
our scout at Evin reports many many prisoners being brought and high security outside #Iranelection

confirmed - tomorrow Haft Teer Sq at 4pm pro mousavifreedom - carry flowers for baseej - no confrontation - #Iranelection

1000’s on balconys - tehran is alive with sound of freedom - marg bar dictator - #Iranelection

reports of street fighting in azadi sq and surrounding st’s -pepper gas and fires #Iranelection

358 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:07pm

re: #306 Jewels (AKA Julian)

not to detract much from the important goings on in Iran, but theis Smoking of Mike Wallace of CBS by morgan Freeman isa must see

[Link: joshuapundit.blogspot.com…]

I was just looking at that. The clip is over 7 months old, and the blogger has hat-tipped tundra tabloids for it. Seems to be a popular clip among the racists. There are a few versions at YouTube, and some of them focus on Mike Wallace saying he’s Jewish.

359 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:22pm

re: #328 yma o hyd

Yep, he would do that …

However, as we all know, Russia is also home to some otustanding - unfortunately criminal - hackers, who would certainly know how to out-wit Putin and his cohorts as far as cyberwar is concerned.

You’d have to explain to me how those hackers get coopted by the anti-government forces. Particularly since my personal suspicion has been that they’re actually Russian government actors, one way and another.

360 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:35pm

re: #342 Walter L. Newton


thanks for that
(I wonder if everyone here understands you explanation?)

361 wiffersnapper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:37pm

Good for her, and stand for Iran.

362 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:40pm

re: #334 scottishbuzzsaw

Howdy, Cousin! After a recent interaction with my son (turns 27 tomorrow) I am reminded of the Cosby dad saying, “I brought you into this world, and I can take you out!” Other than that, all is well. How goes life with you?

It was about that age, maybe a little older. I had a shocking epiphany. Son of bitch that old fogey old man of mine WAS RIGHT!

:-)

363 hazzyday  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:53pm

re: #264 HoosierHoops

Because the router tables can be controlled…The only way to get out is using a Proxie server on a Private IP….10.x.x.x. It’s tricky.But is doable.

All internet traffic in the northwest goes through the Westin Building. and then most of it goes to San Franciscon or San Jose for further routing. What escapes this are point to point leased phone lines with modems on them, and satellite traffic. Proxies can hide your location but proxy logs will reveal the next point of contact. Someone has to sift the data and make a human decision. It takes time and money to do that.

At one time there was an effort in Seattle to have a private cloud network based on peoples private networks. To escape the internet. But to talk to other people the interent needs a connection somewhere.

Net Neutraility is an effort to keep big government and big business out of you desktops.

364 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:58pm

re: #343 Jewels (AKA Julian)

I assume ‘Marg Bar’ is Pharsi. what does it mean?


It’s Rosanne’s older lesbian sister.

365 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:08:59pm

re: #335 dapperdave

Obama doesn’t want to be seen as meddling into Iran’s affairs but it’s o.k. to strong arm Israel into a two state solution? I guess picking and choosing the easy stuff and leaving the tough decisions to someone else of a more higher pay grade is Obama’s policy, 2012 come quickly.

2010 and a second Republican Revolution would be a good start to 2012.

366 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:09:05pm

re: #355 Walter L. Newton

I try not remembering anything with Paul Rubens in it

367 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:09:20pm

re: #355 Walter L. Newton

Don’t you remember Marg Bar, the female dead truck driver in “Pee Wee Big Adventure?”


How can you not remember? - It was the worst accident I ever seen!

368 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:09:29pm

re: #341 jamgarr

Oh, can they please bring back Bernie Shaw?!?!

Did they finally get him out from under the table?

369 dapperdave  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:09:46pm

re: #354 J.D.

2012 the end of an error

370 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:09:48pm

re: #343 Jewels (AKA Julian)

I assume ‘Marg Bar’ is Pharsi. what does it mean?

Death to…..

P.S Farsi, is the common transliteration.

371 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:09:53pm

“I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man.”

Can I still call him Easy Reader?

(Giving away my age)

372 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:10:08pm

re: #319 apachegunner

the five fingered beast

Remember the six fingered man? Princes Bride.

373 quiet man  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:10:11pm

Morgan Freeman is testicle centered on that one.

I so loved his Performances in “Glory” “Deep Impact”, and “The Shawshank Redemption”

374 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:10:44pm

re: #368 J.D.

LOL!

375 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:10:46pm

re: #359 Dianna

You’d have to explain to me how those hackers get coopted by the anti-government forces. Particularly since my personal suspicion has been that they’re actually Russian government actors, one way and another.

I could envisage a scenario where its ‘them v us’ - and I doubt that all of them are in cahoots with the Russian government.

But, as I said - this is highly speculative. Very highly speculative …

376 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:11:17pm

re: #362 jcm

It was about that age, maybe a little older. I had a shocking epiphany. Son of bitch that old fogey old man of mine WAS RIGHT!

:-)

You give my husband and me a ray of hope! ;>)

377 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:11:36pm

re: #373 quiet man

Morgan Freeman is testicle centered on that one.

I so loved his Performances in “Glory” “Deep Impact”, and “The Shawshank Redemption”

/I get them mixed up. Is “Deep Impact” the prison one?

378 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:11:44pm

re: #369 dapperdave

2012 the end of an error


I sure as hell hope so!

379 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:11:50pm

re: #334 scottishbuzzsaw
awwww, give em a hug and get over it :>) But I understand we adopted a grandson who is now 17 and I am amazed I havn’t cuffed him, ever.

380 Truck Monkey  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:11:59pm

re: #368 J.D.

Did they finally get him out from under the table?

Where he was fellating Saddam Hussein.

381 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:12:10pm

re: #346 Buck

Remember what his name publishing that he had information that Bush was going to invade Iran?

I wonder how he and his supporters work out that it never happened?

we all know that doubleplusgood hopechange has come to Iran as a result of the “I have a delusion speech” and never before have Iranians protested for reform…. History is written by what the NYT choses to cover.

382 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:12:42pm

re: #346 Buck

Remember what his name publishing that he had information that Bush was going to invade Iran?

I wonder how he and his supporters work out that it never happened?

There was a very vocal group of nutters here in the Seattle area that said Bush would not step down come 20 Jan 2009. They were oh so certain he would declare Martial Law on 19 Jan and declare himself Dictator for Life.

383 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:12:45pm

re: #360 albusteve

thanks for that
(I wonder if everyone here understands you explanation?)

1) Look at it this way, it would be like all kinds of people calling “o” for operator on the phone. At some point, all the operators would be busy and NO ONE could get through.

2) Versus, if you could dial only ONE operator you wanted to keep busy, and everyone keeps dialing the SAME operator, and that operator is too busy to get anything done.

Asking for a denial of service attack on government servers in Iran is like taking step number one, a whole bunch of operators (routers) get busy, so busy, everything slows down. A router is like an automatic operator, it’s a switch that routes your calls, but you can get ex-number of any routers when you make the call, the same as when you get ANY operator when you dial “o.”

That’s it real simple.

384 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:10pm

re: #380 Truck Monkey

Where he was fellating Saddam Hussein.

Cowering not fellating

385 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:18pm

re: #363 hazzyday

I’m pretty sure the Backbone out the Northwest is on Sprint Fiber…Right?

386 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:25pm

re: #270 MJ

Was just reading Obama’s comments from yesterday:

There is no such thing as “tough, hard-headed diplomacy” unless it’s backed up by willingness to use force or, at the very least, that the other side believes you will use force when necessary.

Does anyone in Iran or anywhere else in the world believe for one moment that Obama would use force to further American interests?

Ask the Afghani Taliban. S-U-R-G-E.

387 HelloDare  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:25pm

Palin accepts Letterman apology:

“Of course it’s accepted on behalf of young women, like my daughters, who hope men who ‘joke’ about public displays of sexual exploitation of girls will soon evolve.”

“Letterman certainly has the right to ‘joke’ about whatever he wants to, and thankfully we have the right to express our reaction,” Palin said. “This is all thanks to our U.S. Military women and men putting their lives on the line for us to secure America’s Right to Free Speech - in this case, may that right be used to promote equality and respect.”

388 quiet man  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:37pm

re: Radicchio ad Absurdum

That is shawshank..deep is the one with the ELE asteroid strike and him as President giving the world bad news.
He was exactly how one might want the President to be during that time. Strong, dignified and a leader one could trust. So unlike what we have now.

389 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:37pm

re: #380 Truck Monkey

Bernie was skeert when the war started, and John Holiman was like… “Hey…looky there!”
Classic moments in television.

390 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:40pm

re: #372 midwestgak

Remember the six fingered man? Princes Bride.

“Do you always start conversations that way?”

391 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13:56pm

re: #377 Radicchio ad Absurdum

/I get them mixed up. Is “Deep Impact” the prison one?

Thanks, I’m eating lunch which is now all over my keyboard and monitor!
ROFL!

392 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #333 lawhawk

You’re preaching the gothels to the choir. Holland’ as loud as you can brotha’! /

I can’t bear mountain’ this pun thread any higher than it already is. Anyway, I have to check out for a while. Later.

393 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:14:55pm

re: #391 jcm

Thanks, I’m eating lunch which is now all over my keyboard and monitor!
ROFL!

I love this place.

394 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:15:01pm

re: #389 J.D.

Bernie was skeert when the war started, and John Holiman was like… “Hey…looky there!”
Classic moments in television.


Then there was Ol’ Pete Arnett - Ahhhh, the good ol’ days!

395 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:15:28pm

re: #382 FurryOldGuyJeans

There was a very vocal group of nutters here in the Seattle area that said Bush would not step down come 20 Jan 2009. They were oh so certain he would declare Martial Law on 19 Jan and declare himself Dictator for Life.

I heard exactly the same thing about Clinton back in 2001 from my favorite Black Helicopter believer.

396 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:16:22pm

re: #395 Dianna

I heard exactly the same thing about Clinton back in 2001 from my favorite Black Helicopter believer.

US Presidents have been stepping down, with dignity, when their terms expire, since 1801.

And, God willing, always will.

397 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:16:23pm

re: #382 FurryOldGuyJeans

There was a very vocal group of nutters here in the Seattle area that said Bush would not step down come 20 Jan 2009. They were oh so certain he would declare Martial Law on 19 Jan and declare himself Dictator for Life.

It’s funny ‘cause in 1999 I ran into a group in Florida that said the exact same thing about Clinton. A really nice lady, whom I had done years of business with, told that exact same thing about Clinton with a perfect straight face.

398 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:16:37pm

re: #394 jamgarr

Then there was Ol’ Pete Arnett - Ahhhh, the good ol’ days!

Pete got quiet after his… little… problem…
Not that he’s missed.

399 brucee  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:16:46pm

Hmmm… Apparently it was the State Dept. who got Twitter to delay maintenance. Maybe some things are being done behind the scenes. Hopefully, some that we should not know about as well.

400 MJ  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:16:58pm

re: #386 Cato the Elder

Ask the Afghani Taliban. S-U-R-G-E.

We are most certainly not engaged in diplomacy with the Taliban. The surge is part of a war effort, to finally defeat them.

401 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:17:23pm

re: #396 EmmmieG


Oops. Made a mistake there. I meant to point out that they step down to hand the opposite party power, which happened in 1801. In 1797, Washington to Adams was the same power.

402 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:17:26pm

OT

Sebelius: Insurance lobby won’t be able to block health care plan

Way to toss that challenge into the ring, Kathleen. That guarantees no health plan will pass. The insurance lobby has better lawyers then the government.

403 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:17:39pm

out

404 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:17:42pm

re: #395 Dianna

I heard exactly the same thing about Clinton back in 2001 from my favorite Black Helicopter believer.

If I remember the same group decrying Dictator Bush actually WANTED Clinton to stay. This is Seattle, so logical thinking can’t get through the patchouli fumes.

405 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:17:47pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Like all dictatorships, they try to achieve silence of rebellion. As soon as I saw that cell phones were communicating to the world what was happening, well, it was just a matter of time before that form, or any other, would be shut down.

Can’t squelch it all though, Mr. dictator of the current world scene.

406 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:17:54pm
407 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:18:12pm

re: #362 jcm

It was about that age, maybe a little older. I had a shocking epiphany. Son of bitch that old fogey old man of mine WAS RIGHT!

:-)


yeppers J, we’ve all had that I bet, I know I have.

408 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:18:24pm

re: #214 BlueCanuck

Pahlavi: The Shah’s kid, for those who don’t know! If he shows some leadership, he might benefit. He also may get himself killed or jailed.

409 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:19:01pm

re: #403 J.D.

out

In.

Shake it.

Turn about.

And all that jazz. ;)

410 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:19:27pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

He would never have done that. It would have been an indelible stain on the Presidency.

Or something like that.

And he would know all about indelible stains.

411 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:19:53pm

re: #402 acwgusa

OT

Sebelius: Insurance lobby won’t be able to block health care plan

Way to toss that challenge into the ring, Kathleen. That guarantees no health plan will pass. The insurance lobby has better lawyers then the government.

He’s getting it from both sides I guess. Mrs. ad Absurdum (a Doc) told me the AMA boo’ed his speech yesterday.

412 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:19:54pm

re: #404 FurryOldGuyJeans

If I remember the same group decrying Dictator Bush actually WANTED Clinton to stay. This is Seattle, so logical thinking can’t get through the patchouli fumes.

But Clinton would have been a good dictator, just like Obama!

///

413 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:20:03pm

Ok so, how irrelevant is Hillary Clinton?

414 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:20:14pm

re: #372 midwestgak
Hey GAK howya doing?

415 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:20:30pm
416 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:20:35pm

re: #413 Ben Hur

Ok so, how irrelevant is Hillary Clinton?

Who?

417 MJ  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:20:36pm

re: #413 Ben Hur

Ok so, how irrelevant is Hillary Clinton?

Who is she? The name rings a bell.

418 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:20:39pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

He would never have done that. It would have been an indelible stain on the Presidency.

Or something like that.

Knowing Clinton, it would’ve been a rather sticky situation making a stain on his legacy. He’d have been hard-up to stay in office then.

419 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:20:54pm

Prostatectomy
Not an easy decision
Go with “out” or “up”?

420 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:21:38pm

re: #411 Radicchio ad Absurdum

He’s getting it from both sides I guess. Mrs. ad Absurdum (a Doc) told me the AMA boo’ed his speech yesterday.

He got a bunch at “no tort reform,” I heard that clip.

421 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:22:08pm

re: #390 scottishbuzzsaw

“Do you always start conversations that way?”

“I don’t think that word means what you think it does.”

422 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:22:09pm

re: #397 Buck

It’s funny ‘cause in 1999 I ran into a group in Florida that said the exact same thing about Clinton. A really nice lady, whom I had done years of business with, told that exact same thing about Clinton with a perfect straight face.

Oh, I forgot to mention they believe Bush is still in charge, Obama is simply his sockpuppet. Especially since Obama has reneged on so many campaign promises and is replicating the “Bush Regime” in all aspects.

423 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:22:25pm

re: #418 Honorary Yooper

Sign on window of NYC dry cleaning establishment after the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal broke: “We Get the Stains Out”.

424 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:22:39pm

re: #415 buzzsawmonkey

The Head of the Typing Pool of State, you mean?

mis-typing…..

Don’t forget.. RESET!

425 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:22:39pm

re: #418 Honorary Yooper

Knowing Clinton, it would’ve been a rather sticky situation making a stain on his legacy. He’d have been hard-up to stay in office then.

Brain bleach, stat…

426 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:23:23pm

re: #415 buzzsawmonkey

The Head of the Typing Pool of State, you mean?

she and BO don’t seem to be able to recognize the ‘moment’….as time goes by and the situation in Iran evolves they will have nothing to show for their service…a couple of genuine rubes

427 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:23:26pm

re: #418 Honorary Yooper

Knowing Clinton, it would’ve been a rather sticky situation making a stain on his legacy. He’d have been hard-up to stay in office then.

That comment is a low blow……….

428 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:23:39pm

re: #422 FurryOldGuyJeans

Oh, I forgot to mention they believe Bush is still in charge, Obama is simply his sockpuppet. Especially since Obama has reneged on so many campaign promises and is replicating the “Bush Regime” in all aspects.

There’s a whole bunch of “meet the new boss” posts on barking-left websites. They are not happy…. and that makes me smile.

429 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:23:40pm

re: #400 MJ

We are most certainly not engaged in diplomacy with the Taliban. The surge is part of a war effort, to finally defeat them.

You asked whether anyone could believe that Obama would ever use force to further American interests. According to your imaginary picture of him, he should have dropped the war in Afghanistan and offered an unclenched fist to Mullah Omar. Or at least started a withdrawal. Instead he has initiated a massive surge. To the disgust and incredulity of the knee-jerk pacifists who voted for him. To the applause of realists like me.

The example is valid.

430 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:24:18pm

re: #420 jcm

He got a bunch at “no tort reform,” I heard that clip.

His got his Society of American Lawyers speech mixed up with his AMA speech apparently.

431 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:24:51pm

re: #355 Walter L. Newton

Don’t you remember Marg Bar, the female dead truck driver in “Pee Wee Big Adventure?”

You mean Large Marge?!

432 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:25:14pm

re: #414 apachegunner

Hey GAK howya doing?

Hey apach, doing good. Good to see you!

433 apachegunner  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:25:30pm

re: #418 Honorary Yooper

Knowing Clinton, it would’ve been a rather sticky situation making a stain on his legacy. He’d have been hard-up to stay in office then.

yeah, and besides he made stains all over his office :>)

434 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:25:49pm

re: #425 scottishbuzzsaw

Brain bleach, stat…

I’m with you. If I am never confronted with the image of Bill Clinton in a sexual context again, it will be too freaking soon for me. Whoever Nina Burleigh is, she’s out of her mind.

435 avanti  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:25:59pm

OT It’s the little things. My son is 28 years old, living with his girlfriend but stops in every now and then to “chill” with his dad. The little thing is he always says “I love you dad” as he heads out the door and I return the comment. The little things like that about your kids make all the hassles worth it. Hug your kid today, I don’t care if he/she is an adult.
Just occurred to me as he left just now.

436 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:26:00pm

OT Cool Science!

Microbe Wakes Up After 120,000 Years in Ice

After more than 120,000 years trapped beneath a block of ice in Greenland, a tiny microbe has awoken. The long-lasting bacteria may hold clues to what life forms might exist on other planets.


Mammoths next!
/

437 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:26:32pm

re: #428 Wendya

There’s a whole bunch of “meet the new boss” posts on barking-left websites. They are not happy…. and that makes me smile.

I will have to take your word for it. I am intolerant of fringe idiocy no matter what political stripe they say they are.

438 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:26:37pm

re: #436 jcm

OT Cool Science!

Microbe Wakes Up After 120,000 Years in Ice


Mammoths next!
/


To hell with that! I wanna Tyrannosaurus!

439 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:26:37pm

re: #418 Honorary Yooper

Knowing Clinton, it would’ve been a rather sticky situation making a stain on his legacy. He’d have been hard-up to stay in office then.


I’m glad I snuck back in. LOL!

440 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:26:39pm

re: #421 midwestgak

“I don’t think that word means what you think it does.”

“You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is ‘Never get involved in a land war in Asia,’ but only slightly less well known is this: ‘Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!’”

441 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:27:41pm

re: #436 jcm

OT Cool Science!

Microbe Wakes Up After 120,000 Years in Ice


Mammoths next!
/

I want a baby mammoth in the zoo!

442 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:27:45pm

re: #420 jcm

He got a bunch at “no tort reform,” I heard that clip.

Chicago is a very stupid place to say something like that. Illinois is one of the few remaining places that are very plaintiff friendly for med mal.

443 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:27:48pm

‘I’m going for “radio silence” for a couple of hours’ says stop amadi

444 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:27:54pm

re: #438 acwgusa

To hell with that! I wanna Tyrannosaurus!

I’m assuming you didn’t see that movie.

445 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:28:18pm

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste”

Unless…….

446 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:28:25pm

re: #435 avanti

OT It’s the little things. My son is 28 years old, living with his girlfriend but stops in every now and then to “chill” with his dad. The little thing is he always says “I love you dad” as he heads out the door and I return the comment. The little things like that about your kids make all the hassles worth it. Hug your kid today, I don’t care if he/she is an adult.
Just occurred to me as he left just now.

There is nothing more sweet than a son that hugs you and Say’s ‘ I love you pops’
You can’t buy that line for a million dollars bro

447 Land Shark  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:28:30pm

re: #413 Ben Hur

Hillary Clinton? Gee, that name rings a bell. Oh yeah, didn’t she win best actress for playing a boxer in that movie with Clint Eatwood?

Oh, drat, that was Hillary SWANK! Sorry, never mind.

:-)

448 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:28:34pm

re: #427 jcm

That comment is a low blow……….

Yeah, it kind of sucked.

449 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:28:44pm

re: #444 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m assuming you didn’t see that movie.

I did. I want to let it loose in Congress.

450 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:29:21pm

If this is true, there’s gonna be a hole lotta shak’in going on…


Al-Arabiya reports that an Interior Ministry Leak says that Mousavi won 57% of votes cast
451 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:29:37pm

re: #436 jcm

OT Cool Science!

Microbe Wakes Up After 120,000 Years in Ice


Mammoths next!
/

Grave Secrets of Dinosaurs: Soft Tissues and Hard Science delves in part into recovering ancient DNA and such. Excellent read.

452 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:29:54pm

re: #435 avanti

OT It’s the little things. My son is 28 years old, living with his girlfriend but stops in every now and then to “chill” with his dad. The little thing is he always says “I love you dad” as he heads out the door and I return the comment. The little things like that about your kids make all the hassles worth it. Hug your kid today, I don’t care if he/she is an adult.
Just occurred to me as he left just now.


Wise words.

453 Truck Monkey  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:30:00pm

re: #418 Honorary Yooper

Knowing Clinton, it would’ve been a rather sticky situation making a stain on his legacy. He’d have been hard-up to stay in office then.

Ya, It would have been a real Boner move. Tough to swallow.

454 avanti  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:30:26pm

re: #446 HoosierHoops

There is nothing more sweet than a son that hugs you and Say’s ‘ I love you pops’
You can’t buy that line for a million dollars bro

And he’ll do it in front of his friends and not give a flying f#ck about being “uncool”.

455 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:30:41pm

re: #366 Jewels (AKA Julian)

I try not remembering anything with Paul Rubens in it

C’mon! Don’t be such a stick in the Mud. He was good in Batman. He was very good in “Buffy, The Vampire Slayer”.

456 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:30:53pm

re: #449 acwgusa

I did. I want to let it loose in Congress.


“sigh” they will just make more…

457 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:30:55pm

re: #453 Truck Monkey

Ya, It would have been a real Boner move. Tough to swallow.

Kind of makes one want to spit.

458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:31:15pm

re: #449 acwgusa

I did. I want to let it loose in Congress.

Mars Attacks’d be cool too.

ACK ACK!

459 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:31:18pm

re: #455 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

C’mon! Don’t be such a stick in the Mud. He was good in Batman. He was very good in “Buffy, The Vampire Slayer”.

Pity the poor guy sitting in front of him in that theater!

460 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:31:33pm

re: #455 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

C’mon! Don’t be such a stick in the Mud. He was good in Batman. He was very good in “Buffy, The Vampire Slayer”.

He was also very good in “Blow”.

461 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:32:13pm

re: #458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mars Attacks’d be cool too.

ACK ACK!

Ah. Mars Attacks. Hippies as Martian Cannon Fodder.

462 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:32:21pm

IranElection09 warning:

lots of counter intelligence from Shahrzadmo & ppl seem to be working for intelligence min., be careful ppl dont trust all #iranelection

and just in from StopAhmadi:

Iranian gvmt is blocking out all INTERNET/SMS/PHONE - as long as they do this, we cut down THEIR sites.
463 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:32:26pm

re: #455 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

C’mon! Don’t be such a stick in the Mud. He was good in Batman. He was very good in “Buffy, The Vampire Slayer”.

He had a whiff of creepiness in “Pushing Daisies.”

464 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:32:31pm

re: #459 acwgusa

Pity the poor guy sitting in front of him in that theater!

Let him with a free hand, cast the first stone.

465 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:32:31pm

re: #460 MrSilverDragon

He was also very good in “Blow”.

Didn’t that star Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton? Or am I thinking of the wrong film?

466 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:32:50pm

re: #454 avanti

And he’ll do it in front of his friends and not give a flying f#ck about being “uncool”.

Being cool certainly won’t get that pile of laundry done, or get you a loan when hard up for cash.

467 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:32:51pm

re: #464 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Let him with a free hand, cast the first stone.

I don’t think he had a free hand.

468 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:33:14pm

re: #440 Honorary Yooper

“You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is ‘Never get involved in a land war in Asia,’ but only slightly less well known is this: ‘Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!’”

“… farm boy.

As you wish.”

469 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:33:33pm

VDH on Iran…excellent as usual

pajamasmedia.com

470 jorline  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:33:49pm

re: #435 avanti

OT It’s the little things. My son is 28 years old, living with his girlfriend but stops in every now and then to “chill” with his dad. The little thing is he always says “I love you dad” as he heads out the door and I return the comment. The little things like that about your kids make all the hassles worth it. Hug your kid today, I don’t care if he/she is an adult.
Just occurred to me as he left just now.

ding

I have a 14 yo son who still likes to snuggle and give goodnight kisses…just not in front of his friends.
It doesn’t matter who’s around he’ll always tell me he loves me.

Nothing better in the whole wide world.

471 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:33:51pm

re: #467 acwgusa

I don’t think he had a free hand.

Uh…pretty much the point there, Einstein!
/

472 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:33:51pm

re: #461 acwgusa

Ah. Mars Attacks. Hippies as Martian Cannon Fodder.

The “protesters” on the roof of the building at the start of the alien attack in “independence Day”.

473 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:33:58pm

re: #454 avanti

See, this is why you keep getting positive karma points. You started out near -1000, now you’re under -300. Keep this up, and you might have positive karma sooner that you think. :-)

474 MarineVet  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:34:10pm

Ghandi was able to free India with passive aggression and unfortunately people need to sacrifice beatings maimings torture and killings……This protest is more of empowered peoples feeling freedom but will they make a dramatic change like overturning the religous leadership? When you kill and threaten to kill is a powerful statement to eventually subdue a populace. If, they start killing wholesale in Iran what then would be our role here in the USA? Would be rather Ironic to start our increased troop deployments to the borders from Afganastan and Iraq to help overthrow Iran and then Kim il jung throws a hissy fit and invades South Korea…..this worl is in madness and I am sure that the iditotic left will blame it ALL on GW and NOT on the religous theocracy!

475 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:34:56pm

re: #471 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Uh…pretty much the point there, Einstein!
/

Thank you, Thank you. I, Captain Obvious, will be here all week! Be sure to tip your waitress!

/No dammit! I didn’t mean literally! Pick that waitress up!

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:35:09pm

re: #473 Honorary Yooper

Son of a gun is getting endearing, isn’t he.

Hiya Sailor!

477 avanti  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:35:09pm

re: #466 FurryOldGuyJeans

Being cool certainly won’t get that pile of laundry done, or get you a loan when hard up for cash.

I know we all have friends that either can’t say I love you, or never hear it themselves. Like I say, it’s the little things.

478 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:35:14pm

re: #468 midwestgak

“… farm boy.

As you wish.”

“Oh my sweet Wesley! What have I done?!”

479 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:35:15pm

re: #446 HoosierHoops

There is nothing more sweet than a son that hugs you and Say’s ‘ I love you pops’
You can’t buy that line for a million dollars bro

Pre happy Father’s Day to all you fathers.

480 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:35:15pm

Just got an effen robo call on my CELL about homeowner’s insurance, or something!

AARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!

481 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:35:49pm

re: #477 avanti

I know we all have friends that either can’t say I love you, or never hear it themselves. Like I say, it’s the little things.

Friends? What are those?

482 Windhorse  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:35:50pm

Avanti…. great post.

484 jorline  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:36:25pm

re: #479 midwestgak

Pre happy Father’s Day to all you fathers.

{gak}

Thanks…hope you are well.

485 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:36:36pm

re: #441 Dianna

I want a baby mammoth in the zoo!

Those morons will go back and taunt it.

486 jamgarr  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:36:57pm

re: #478 scottishbuzzsaw

“Oh my sweet Wesley! What have I done?!”


Don’t worry - he’s only mostly dead

487 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:37:07pm

re: #480 Ben Hur

Just got an effen robo call on my CELL about homeowner’s insurance, or something!

AARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!

DO NOT CALL LIST FOR CELL PHONES IS [no phone numbers allowed]!

The numbers have been loosed upon the telemarketers!

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:38:00pm

re: #487 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DO NOT CALL LIST FOR CELL PHONES IS [no phone numbers allowed]!

The numbers have been loosed upon the telemarketers!

eight hundred, three eight two, one two two two!

489 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:38:11pm

re: #469 albusteve


3. We are seeing in Washington that the multiculturalism impulse — one does not use Western paradigms to judge others — is far stronger than the supposedly classical liberal idea that human freedom is a universal concept that trumps culture. In other words, multicultural foreign policy is a sophisticated and politically-correct version of the old, far more intellectually honest realist notion that we let the bastards do what they want to their own people, and then deal with the thug that emerges in the real world of mutual self-interest.
490 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:38:19pm

re: #485 debutaunt

Those morons will go back and taunt it.

I’ll tip ‘em in and let the mammoth handle it.

491 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:38:42pm

re: #465 Honorary Yooper

Didn’t that star Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton? Or am I thinking of the wrong film?

gmta
/

492 avanti  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:39:02pm

re: #473 Honorary Yooper

See, this is why you keep getting positive karma points. You started out near -1000, now you’re under -300. Keep this up, and you might have positive karma sooner that you think. :-)

It’s not always about Karma, nor even politics, sometimes it’s just sharing things that occur to you.My kid just reminded me about the really important stuff we can all agree on.

493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:42:34pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

eight hundred, three eight two, one two two two!

Do not call list for cell phones!

494 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:42:39pm
495 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:49:23pm

re: #478 scottishbuzzsaw

“Oh my sweet Wesley! What have I done?!”

re: #484 jorline

{gak}

Thanks…hope you are well.

Is this a kissing book?

Thanks. I am well. New thread I see. Like to spend more time in one thread sometimes and can’t wait for a new one at other times. {jorline}

496 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:50:38pm
497 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:53:46pm

re: Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is that accurate?

498 Dekar  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 1:14:14pm

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Here’s the question: is it in any way possible that the current upheaval has to do with the fact that on one side of Iran, Iraq—now free of its dictator—is groping towards democracy, and on the other side Afghanistan is slowly beating back the Taliban?

In other words, is this upheaval in Iran proximately caused by our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? I would like to think so. Originally, I had figured that our presence on either side of Iran was for the purpose of potentially providing staging areas for our taking down the mullahs’ regime, but by the end of Bush’s second term it was clear that he no longer had the will or support for doing so. Yet perhaps, by removing the lateral support of the two oppressive regimes on either side of Iran, it is possible that this inspired the people of Iran to take matters into their own hands.

What do others here think?

If so, Bush is a fucking genius

499 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 1:24:34pm

Iran Tightens Crackdown on Foreign Media:

gawker.com

500 NY Nana  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 1:38:28pm

re: #55 karmic_inquisitor

/Channeling The One, are you?

Got a Teleprompter?

501 chedgeman  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 1:50:30pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

It will be interesting to see if the other nervous countries in the region (e.g., Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan), act to restrict use of this new media to protect themselves.

502 tradewind  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 1:52:06pm

The head of the mossad has it right when he says that we are all missing the big picture… that the riots are only/mainly in Tehran and will disappear…..this is the important issue:

“The notion of an Iranian nuclear weapon is an existential threat to Israel and has to be removed.”


jpost.com

503 Sunlight  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 2:33:53pm

re: #502 tradewind

The head of the mossad has it right when he says that we are all missing the big picture… that the riots are only/mainly in Tehran and will disappear…..this is the important issue:


[Link: www.jpost.com…]

If they are hitting people on the head with those clubs, there will be a huge number of TBI cases walking around. And for a similar guy? I can’t say I’m totally impressed with the Iranian public unless they are yelling an untranslated message of not wanting to wipe out the neighbors with the upcoming nukes. Maybe they think their day to day interaction with life will be better under the other guy, but they aren’t really doing that much good unless they convert their govt into a non-bully (non-genocidal) position.

504 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 3:33:42pm

re: #62 buzzsawmonkey

Here’s the question: is it in any way possible that the current upheaval has to do with the fact that on one side of Iran, Iraq—now free of its dictator—is groping towards democracy, and on the other side Afghanistan is slowly beating back the Taliban?

In other words, is this upheaval in Iran proximately caused by our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? I would like to think so. Originally, I had figured that our presence on either side of Iran was for the purpose of potentially providing staging areas for our taking down the mullahs’ regime, but by the end of Bush’s second term it was clear that he no longer had the will or support for doing so. Yet perhaps, by removing the lateral support of the two oppressive regimes on either side of Iran, it is possible that this inspired the people of Iran to take matters into their own hands.

What do others here think?

Not just Iran’s neighbors, but places like Lebanon as well.

505 Brisco County  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 3:37:27pm

The lesson here?

If you’re going to fake an election, at least try to make it convincing.

506 Nick Ferguson  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 4:16:05pm

re: #18 yma o hyd

I think the outstanding role played by the iranian women has been severely under-reported in the MFM - and it looks as if the Iranians themselves haven’t had a clue what was coming from them.
Well,being Muslims, that figures!

If this turns into a revolution, then its in no small degree due to the Iranian women.
All power to them!

dizzler.com

Please click on “Right on Sister” about 1/3 of the way down. Very apropos of the Iranian women today.

507 Reluctant Democrat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 4:28:16pm

They are so brave. Notice there are no masks around their faces to protect their identity.

I think of the protest loons in the US with their masks—Feh!

508 captdiggs  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 4:39:05pm

A comparison of leaders.

“As I speak to you tonight, the fate of a proud and ancient nation hangs in the balance. For a thousand years, Christmas has been celebrated in Poland, a land of deep religious faith, but this Christmas brings little joy to the courageous Polish people. They have been betrayed by their own government.
The men who rule them and their totalitarian allies fear the very freedom that the Polish people cherish. They have answered the stirrings of liberty with brute force, killings, mass arrests, and the setting up of concentration camps. Lech Walesa and other Solidarity leaders are imprisoned, their fate unknown. Factories, mines, universities, and homes have been assaulted.”

~Ronald Reagan

“Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.”

~John F Kennedy

“It would not be helpful if the United States was seen by the world as meddling in the (Iranian election) issue. “

~Barak Obama

509 Ramona  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 6:42:23pm

re: #4 Macker

? means what?

510 Ramona  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 6:50:05pm

re: #88 Baier

Wouldn’t that be something? We can dream.

511 Ramona  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 6:58:21pm

re: #165 BlueCanuck

if I knew what any of this meant, I’d try and help out
“an Ubuntu-based CD that already has squid and the proxy settings baked in so someone with a spare computer and a willingness to help can just boot up and be relatively secure —”

512 justdanny  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 7:02:35pm

Ayatollah Montazeri’s letter
16/06/2009

In the name of God

People of Iran

These last days, we have witnessed the lively efforts of you, brothers and sisters, old and young alike, from every social category, for the 10th presidential elections.

Our youth, hoping to see their rightful will fulfilled, came on the scene and waited patiently. This was the greatest occasion for the government’s officials to bond with their people.

However, unfortunately, they used it in the worst way possible. Declaring results that no one in their right mind can believe, and despite all the evidence of crafted results, and contrary to the people’s protestations, in front of the eyes of the same nation who carried the weight of a revolution and 8 years of war, in front of the eyes of local and foreign reporters, attacked the children of the people with astonishing violence. And now they are attempting a purge, arresting intellectuals, political opponents and Scientists.

Now, based on my religious duties, I will remind you:

1- A legitimate state must respect all points of view. It may not oppress critical views. I fear that this will lead to the loss of people’s faith in Islam.

2- Given the current circumstances, I expect the government to take all measures to restore people’s confidence. Otherwise, as I have already said, a government not respecting the people’s vote has no religious or political legitimacy.

3- I invite everyone, especially the youth, to continue reclaiming their dues calmly, and not to allow those who want to associate this movement with chaos succeed.

4- I ask the police and army personnel not to “sell their religion”, and be aware that receiving orders will not excuse them before God. Recognize the protesting youth as your children. Today, censorship and cutting telecommunication lines can not hide the truth.

I pray for the greatness of the Iranian people.

___________________________________________

Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri (Persian: حسین علی منتظری), styled His Honourable Eminence, (born in 1922), was one of the leaders of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. He is best known as the one-time designated successor to the revolution’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini who fell out with Khomeini in 1989 over government policies that Montazeri claimed infringed on freedom and denied people’s rights. He currently lives in the holy city of Qom, and remains politically influential in Iran, especially upon reformist politics.[1] Montazeri is a senior Islamic scholar and a grand marja (religious authority) of Islam.

For almost three decades, Hossein Ali Montazeri has been one of the main critics of Islamic Republic’s domestic and foreign policy. He has also been an active advocate of civil rights and women’s rights in Iran. He is a prolific writer and has authored a number of books and articles.

513 justdanny  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:02:09pm

WARNING, This video is extremely graphic. It depicts a young Iranian man who has been killed

Youtube Video

514 lifeofthemind  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:43:47pm

When people are fighting totalitarians it does not help to point out that the only available locus for them to rally around is imperfect. It can be seriously flawed even but what we need to consider is that the very act of rebellion build a space for liberty to grow. Let us support Mousavi and not criticize him while the Iranian people use him as a tool to rally against Ahmadinejehad. Once the currently dominating forces of repression are weakened we can then focus on the next problem. Keep your eyes on the prize. As long as we do not allow ourselves to fall into the error of supporting someone even worse then we should be OK in championing the opposition to the governing tyrant. The perfect should not be the enemy of the sufficient and we should ensure that we do not enable the merely sufficient or even undesirable to fall to the benefit of the truly dangerous and evil.. When we (that is Carter) withdrew support from the imperfect Shah the did not consider that Khomeini would be far worse. When people say that we should accept the current illegitimate leaders in Iran because the only alternative on the stage is also linked to hateful or antagonistic doctrines they are similarly short sighted.

515 justdanny  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 3:40:58am

re: #51 dapperdave

I think now would be a good time for Israel to go in and take out those nuke sites.

Now would be the worst time to do that.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh