The Paul-Obama Isolationist Convergence

Politics • Views: 3,477

A congressional resolution to condemn Iran’s brutal crackdown on demonstrators was passed by a nearly unanimous vote—405 to 1.

And of course, the lone dissenting vote was cast by Uncle Ron.

The only vote against the resolution was cast by Representative Ron Paul, who although a Republican considers himself a political libertarian.

On this issue, Ron Paul and Barack Obama are on the same page:

While condemning “attempts by foreign governments to suppress the democratic aspirations of their people,” he said he admired President Obama’s cautious approach to the situation in Iran, and said U.S. criticism of other countries was often “selective” when making a political point.

(Hat tip: Aaron.)

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259 comments
1 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:57:32pm

INteresting coincidence

2 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:58:17pm

Er, wouldn’t that be a House vote?

3 davinvalkri  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:58:34pm

Uh…okay…who was expecting the isolationist right and the internationalist/multiculturalist left to overlap like this?

4 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:58:56pm

Tea Party!

5 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:58:59pm

Correct me if I am wrong … but doesn’t Ron Paul vote no on almost everything that concerns another country? …

6 jaunte  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:59:00pm

Any time there’s an excuse to be made not to get involved outside our borders, Luap Nor will be there.

7 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:59:07pm

More evidence for whom to vote against.

8 Rexatosis  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:59:44pm

While the Iranian Theocracy is stuck in the Middle Ages Rep. and the rest of us are in the 21st Century good ol’ Rep. Ron Paul is hanging out in splendid isoloationism and the gold standard of the 1800’s.

9 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 5:59:46pm

re: #7 NelsFree

More evidence for whom to vote against.

Agreed. Laup Nor out in 2010, CBBHO out in 2012!

10 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:00:00pm

David Price (N-NC) never saw a spending bill he didn’t like, either.

11 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:00:06pm
Youtube Video

/the political spectrum wraps around in a circle

12 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:00:24pm

This is the point where paleolibertarianism and progressive leftism collide, merge, and give birth to a horrific new political fringe.

13 freetoken  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:00:51pm

Given President Obama’s stated intention of strengthening international institutions, this is the most temporal of alignments.

/syzygy is a natural phenomenon and one of the best words to use when playing hangman.

14 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:01:55pm

looks like a huge split here…BO on one side and Congress on another…defying him

15 Rexatosis  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:02:12pm

Opps # 8 should read

“While the Iranian Theocracy is stuck in the Middle Ages and the rest of us are in the 21st Century, good ol’ Rep. Ron Paul is hanging out in the splendid isolationism and gold standard of the 1800’s.”

Go on vacation for a week and I forgot how to type.

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:03:16pm

Maybe this new fringe should be called ‘iso-leftism’.

17 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:03:34pm

Yup, remaining an isolationist country kept us out of a lot of wars and got on everybody’s good side. Oh yeah.

////////////////

18 jaunte  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:04:04pm

“I like a man who stays put.”
—Roy Batty

19 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:04:37pm

re: #16 Charles

Maybe this new fringe should be called ‘iso-leftism’.

I’d prefer ‘idiocracy’.

20 Bloodnok  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:04:51pm

Where’s that support for LIBERTY! that Paul’s followers are so fond of espousing?

-1776, Ron.

21 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:05:29pm

re: #14 albusteve

looks like a huge split here…BO on one side and Congress on another…defying him

He’s probably content to let Congress do all the meaningless crap they want as long as his Democrat allies consistently help him dismember our Liberty bit by bit…

Don’t get me wrong: I’d have voted for this resolution, too. But, w/o leadership from the WH, it accomplishes what…?

22 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:06:53pm

It’s so much lip service anyway. Unless the CIA, etc. really have their hooks into the opposition movement, my guess is that “The Revolution” probably ends tomorrow.

/and yes, whatever happens, it will end up being televised

23 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:07:00pm

I’m in favor of getting US aid out of Egypt.

24 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:07:18pm

re: #21 SlartyBartfast

He’s probably content to let Congress do all the meaningless crap they want as long as his Democrat allies consistently help him dismember our Liberty bit by bit…

Don’t get me wrong: I’d have voted for this resolution, too. But, w/o leadership from the WH, it accomplishes what…?

zero…but it does seem to indicate that BO is not in the drivers seat with Congress carrying his water for him

25 Flyers1974  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:07:27pm

However, if Obama’s tepid statement on Iran is a strictly ideological stance as opposed to arising from tactical or practical considerations, wouldn’t we expect liberal Democrats or at least some liberal Democrats to vote “no?”

26 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:08:30pm

Ron Paul!

27 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:09:02pm

re: #20 Bloodnok

Where’s that support for LIBERTY! that Paul’s followers are so fond of espousing?

-1776, Ron.

Indeed. One of the key events of the Revolutionary war was the entry into by foreign powers: Spain, France, and The Netherlands.

28 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:09:33pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul!

Luap Nor!

29 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:10:02pm

You know, when only one member of the entire House of Representatives supports your approach and that one member is Ron Paul, it’s time to hold an all nighter with your foreign policy team.

30 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:10:13pm

Obama and Ron Paul on the same page. What say you, Pat Buchanan?

/McLaughlin

31 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:10:30pm

re: #13 freetoken
syzygy:
“Either of two points in the orbit of a celestial body where the body is in opposition to or in conjunction with the sun.”
Word!
/you were just baiting me, I can tell

32 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:11:05pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Youtube Video
33 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:11:11pm

re: #25 Flyers1974

wouldn’t we expect liberal Democrats or at least some liberal Democrats to vote “no?”


I would have thought so but I guess they just love to vote and issue statements and stuff. The might even start a new committee or something eventually.
Here’s the explanation…..
4:26 PM ET —

Rep. Howard Berman calls. My cell phone rang this afternoon and, unexpectedly, it was the office of the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Democrat Howard Berman, who cosponsored the Iran resolution that passed today.

Berman made three points that I thought were important to note:

1) He said he was completely supportive of the way President Obama has handled the Iran crisis, and that his resolution was in no way meant to undermine the White House or pressure it to act any differently. “I think the president is setting exactly the right tone on several different levels,” he said.

2) I asked if he had talked to anyone in Iran or who knew the thinking of Mousavi’s camp about whether they actually wanted this resolution. He said, “I reached out to a number of people, progressives, in the Iranian-American community and among academics, and people who, like me, support the administration’s policy toward Iran.” In the context of what this resolution said — i.e., no mention of terrorism or the nuclear issue or fraud or Mousavi — “they thought it was a good idea,” he said.

3) I asked if he foresaw any additional congressional actions on Iran. He said no. “We have said what we’ve said. And my view now is the principle of ‘do no harm.’ Stay out of this.”

34 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:12:02pm

re: #25 Flyers1974

However, if Obama’s tepid statement on Iran is a strictly ideological stance as opposed to arising from tactical or practical considerations, wouldn’t we expect liberal Democrats or at least some liberal Democrats to vote “no?”

It’s not a stance at all! He’s attempting to vote “Present”.

Meanwhile, the Congressional Weasels are able to vote in favor of something that’s totally inconsequential and beat their chest about “Standing up for Freedom” while throwing ours away with both hands!

*spit*

35 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:12:42pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

How un-Reaganesque!

36 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:13:04pm

re: #29 livefreeor die

You know, when only one member of the entire House of Representatives supports your approach and that one member is Ron Paul, it’s time to hold an all nighter with your foreign policy team.

something like that…yes I agree…
reminds me of BO insisting the surge in Iraq was a failure in full view of it’s raging success…somebody is out to lunch

37 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:13:23pm

re: #29 livefreeor die

You know, when only one member of the entire House of Representatives supports your approach and that one member is Ron Paul, it’s time to hold an all nighter with your foreign policy team.

LFoD … ROFLMAO …. you think? …

38 freetoken  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:13:43pm

re: #31 NelsFree

/you were just baiting me, I can tell

$64 bait at that…

39 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:14:10pm

This isn’t really even about the election anymore, it’s a direct challenge to Iran’s theocracy, has been for at least a couple days now.

And the “Opposition” isn’t going to get that done without lots of covert help.

/tons of cash, organization, secure communications equipment, intelligence on the regime, psyops, people on the phone trying to peel off military leaders …

40 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:14:27pm

re: #32 Idle Drifter

Ron Paul doesn’t have Khan’s smarts nor Ricardo Montalban’s good looks.

41 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:14:32pm

re: #36 albusteve

something like that…yes I agree…
reminds me of BO insisting the surge in Iraq was a failure in full view of it’s raging success…somebody is out to lunch

And holding a press conference while there, no doubt.

42 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:14:57pm

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel

Er, wouldn’t that be a House vote?

Corrected, thanks.

43 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:15:33pm

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

Ron Paul doesn’t have Khan’s smarts nor Ricardo Montalban’s good looks.

But imagine the Photoshop of it!
/No, don’t

44 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:16:02pm

re: #41 livefreeor die

And holding a press conference while there, no doubt.

a confederacy of dunces

45 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:16:40pm

re: #42 Charles

Corrected, thanks.

You’re welcome. That happened so fast I was wondering if I had imagined the first version.

46 Flyers1974  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:17:24pm

re: #34 SlartyBartfast

It’s not a stance at all! He’s attempting to vote “Present”.

Meanwhile, the Congressional Weasels are able to vote in favor of something that’s totally inconsequential and beat their chest about “Standing up for Freedom” while throwing ours away with both hands!

*spit*


“Tepid stance” or voting present, same thing to me.

Aren’t there at least some congressional districts where the weasals would not need to posture?

47 David Simon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:17:25pm

Even the nutbag Barbara Lee voted for it. Paul is an isolationist in more ways than one this time.

48 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:17:55pm

re: #12 Charles

This is the point where paleolibertarianism and progressive leftism collide, merge, and give birth to a horrific new political fringe.


So what do we call this? Moonbattery doesn’t do it justice.

49 DEZes  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:18:09pm

Well thats a WTF moment.
Sorry to keep drifting in and out Lizards.

50 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:18:36pm

Maybe Obama is not worrying about answering to the same people as Congress … I know that I would wonder what was wrong with someone who would not vote to condemn … Ron Paul is just plain nuts so his vote I can understand … Obama’s actions not so much ..

51 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:18:38pm

re: #48 Jim in Virginia

So what do we call this? Moonbattery doesn’t do it justice.

“Treason” sounds good to me.

52 Racer X  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:19:28pm

One hundred years from now, what’s left of America will be saying “What the hell were we thinking, electing a radical incompetent wishy-washy moron as president. Change and Hope my ass”.

53 Kobalt  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:19:34pm

…Ron Paul alllllllways knows better than everyone else!
FRICKIN
IDIOT!

54 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:20:42pm

Two Congressmen actually did vote present on this- Keith Ellison and a Republican from Iowa, I think.

55 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:20:50pm

re: #48 Jim in Virginia

So what do we call this? Moonbattery doesn’t do it justice.

Malfeasance: “Misconduct or wrongdoing, especially by a public official.”
Word. Heh.
/”Throw each Malfeasant under the election bus in 2010”.

56 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:22:17pm

Has the EPA ever tested the water in Ron Paul’s congressional district?
Just saying…

57 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:22:24pm

re: #54 Jim in Virginia

Two Congressmen actually did vote present on this- Keith Ellison and a Republican from Iowa, I think.

Shitheads. Both Republics who failed to vote for this resolution should get bounced out in primaries next spring.

58 Arbalest  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:22:29pm

Apparently, the Ronulan Blimp was filled with nitrous, and, in the interests of economics, recycling, … .

I know people (always D-ticket, no thinking) in Texas who are genuinely embarrassed by RP (party affiliations aside). Perhaps this is RP’s blimp-song.

59 David Simon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:22:36pm

re: #39 Killian Bundy

/tons of cash, organization, secure communications equipment, intelligence on the regime, psyops, people on the phone trying to peel off military leaders …

Between supporting the Special Groups in Iraq, and now, supporting (what was their enemy) the Taliban in Afghanistan, payback is long overdue.

60 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:22:39pm

Just noticed in “spy” we can choose how many items we want to show. That’s new today?

61 Flyers1974  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:22:46pm

re: #50 JacksonTn

Maybe Obama is not worrying about answering to the same people as Congress … I know that I would wonder what was wrong with someone who would not vote to condemn … Ron Paul is just plain nuts so his vote I can understand … Obama’s actions not so much ..

I think there are some congressional districts where the constituency is utterly unconcerned with foreign policy matters.

62 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:22:47pm

Now, for the female members of Congress, do we call it Femalfeasance?
/jes’ askin’

63 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:23:04pm

re: #46 Flyers1974

Some Congressional districts? Absolutely! The Red ones in the map here.

64 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:23:32pm

re: #53 Kobalt

…Ron Paul alllllllways knows better than everyone else!
FRICKIN
IDIOT!

for the sake of argument, considering the makeup of Congress, who would you rather have as POTUS?….BO or RP?

65 IslandLibertarian  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:23:36pm

The Libertarian excuse of “it’s none of our business” does not apply with Iran.
It has been our business since 1979 and the first 444 days of this business have never been compensated for or satisfied.

God help Iran!

66 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:24:03pm

re: #54 Jim in Virginia

Two Congressmen actually did vote present on this- Keith Ellison

/hey, hey couldn’t very well vote to condemn the Ummah, now could he?

67 phillies2008  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:24:06pm

Ron Paul is a racist piece of shit.

68 DEZes  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:24:14pm

Every time I see a Luap Nor sticker or a sign in a yard, I wonder.
How can people be that stupid, do they drool like idiots, do they have to unzip to count to 21?

69 yenta-fada  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:24:14pm

re: #52 Racer X

One hundred years from now, what’s left of America will be saying “What the hell were we thinking, electing a radical incompetent wishy-washy moron as president. Change and Hope my ass”.

Make that two years from now. Karma is much more instant these days.

70 spiderx  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:24:14pm

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

71 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:25:33pm

re: #70 spiderx

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

yes…that’s what Iran does…
nothing ventured nothing gained

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:26:08pm

re: #68 DEZes

Or 20 and a half….

73 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:26:37pm

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

Ron Paul doesn’t have Khan’s smarts nor Ricardo Montalban’s good looks.

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

Ron Paul doesn’t have Khan’s smarts nor Ricardo Montalban’s good looks.

Screaming Ron doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Plus it’s more like when Meg Griffon changed her name to Ron. I just can’t find the video.

74 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:26:43pm

elephant talk

Youtube Video
75 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:26:53pm

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or 20 and a half….

LMAO!

76 DEZes  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:27:26pm

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or 20 and a half….

Missing half a finger huh, Oh you mean they have small self esteem….

77 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:27:37pm

Obama should clench HIS fist to the theocracy of Iran.

78 DEZes  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:27:58pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

LMAO!

He deserves those updings. ;)

79 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:28:10pm

re: #65 IslandLibertarian

The Libertarian excuse of “it’s none of our business” does not apply with Iran.
It has been our business since 1979 and the first 444 days of this business have never been compensated for or satisfied.

God help Iran!


Yikes! I’m not a real religious guy but I’m pretty sure saying that God help Iran while in Iran gets you a slug in the brain..
It must be Allah something…..Don’t forget where they are coming from…

80 NelsFree  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:28:12pm

BBL

81 MJ  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:28:23pm

re: #16 Charles

Maybe this new fringe should be called ‘iso-leftism’.

We’ve been there before.
During the run-up to WWII, many on the Left were part of American First-isolationist crowd. For example Norman Thomas,
Chester Bowles, William Benton, Oswald Garrison Villard, and Robert Maynard Hutchins were all isolationists.

82 Bloodnok  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:28:25pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

elephant talk

[Video]

Nice!

83 DEZes  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:28:52pm

re: #67 phillies2008

Ron Paul is a racist piece of shit.

I wont argue with that.

84 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:28:53pm

re: #70 spiderx

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

Do you think the Mullahs waiting for a statement before they blame “foreigners, Zionists, and the Great Satan” for all their problems, including this popular uprising?

85 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:29:07pm

re: #59 David Simon

Between supporting the Special Groups in Iraq, and now, supporting (what was their enemy) the Taliban in Afghanistan, payback is long overdue.

Yes, payback is long overdue.

/although that’s a big assumption, Obama actually ordering (or not canceling) a covert regime change operation against Iran, culminating with this election, that would have to have been started quite some time ago

86 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:29:10pm

re: #68 DEZes A thousand updings.

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:29:18pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

I just never “got” King Crimson.

88 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:29:19pm

Question, for anybody. When I was young, most Republicans had a one-sentence foreign policy: “We are not the world’s policeman.” Democrats were the nation-builders and freedom-spreaders.

When did they start to swap positions, and why?

89 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:29:21pm

re: #61 Flyers1974

I think there are some congressional districts where the constituency is utterly unconcerned with foreign policy matters.

Flyers1974 … yes I am sure Obama is counting on that … he knows who he speaks to … by his words or his actions or inactions … has not changed … the world is listening and watching …

90 DEZes  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:30:23pm

re: #86 Jim in Virginia

A thousand updings.

Why thank you kindly.

91 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:30:45pm

Wonder how much longer it will be before Dems start scraping their 0bama or 0bama-Biden ‘08 Bumper stickers off their sweet Fiat Chrysler minivan or 300….

92 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:31:15pm

re: #87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I got into them from crossover projects with members of “Yes”. I think Crimson has withheld the test of time better. I still think it was pretty ambitious music.

93 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:31:22pm

re: #70 spiderx

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

The mullahs accused us anyway of meddling and will continue to blame us for anything and everything. We are their perpetual strawman. It’s the people standing up to them that could use some moral support.

94 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:31:48pm

re: #70 spiderx

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

/um, uprisings are never legitimate, until they win

95 Racer X  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:32:03pm

re: #87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just never “got” King Crimson.

Its only talk.

96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:32:04pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Oh, I admire the talent and all. Just… eh…

97 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:32:07pm

re: #87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just never “got” King Crimson.

it ain’t rock and roll, so I agree with that

98 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:32:32pm

re: #88 ShanghaiEd

I think a lot of the change happened after 9-11. Bush ran (and won) a campaign mocking nation building and such.

99 brookly red  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:33:00pm

re: #94 Killian Bundy

/um, uprisings are never legitimate, until they win

none dare call it uprising…

100 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:33:09pm

Behead those who insult Robert Fripp!

101 MJ  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:34:01pm

Ron Paul probably thinks this vote helps Israel in some way. That’s certainly what the AP believes. Consider the following which Taranto noticed:

In the strongest message yet from the U.S. government, the House voted 405-1 Friday to condemn Tehran’s crackdown on demonstrators and the government’s interference with Internet and cell phone communications,” the Associated Press voted from Washington. The only “no” vote, unsurprisingly, came from Republican Ron Paul, though two Democrats, Brad Ellsworth of Indiana and Dave Loebsack of Iowa, pulled an Obama and voted “present.”

What got our attention about Anne Flaherty’s AP dispatch, however, was the fifth paragraph:

Democrats, who are quick to voice their support for Israel anytime the Jewish state is seen as under siege, easily agreed to push through the mildly worded resolution.

Not only does Flaherty overgeneralize in a way that suggests she is editorializing, but the resolution makes no mention of Israel. The only Democrat Flaherty quotes also says nothing about Israel:

Rep. Howard Berman, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and co-sponsor of the resolution, said “it is not for us to decide who should run Iran, much less determine the real winner of the June 12 election.
“But we must reaffirm our strong belief that the Iranian people have a fundamental right to express their views about the future of their country freely and without intimidation,” added Berman, D-Calif.


In fact, Flaherty’s own dispatch makes no other mention of Israel. The paragraph quoted above is completely unexplained. Could it be that Flaherty or her editors have some sort of odd preoccupation with the Jewish state?


[Link: online.wsj.com…]

102 IslandLibertarian  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:34:04pm

re: #88 ShanghaiEd

“0” isn’t into nation building. “0” is into nation changing. Ours.

103 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:34:25pm

Since a lot of people still care about statements: Obama sez……

We are seeing that now as history is unfolding in the sounds and images of broadcasts from Iran over the last week. We have seen professional and citizen journalists act as a voice for those who want to be heard, bearing witness to the universal aspirations of democracy and freedom, often at great risk and sometimes with great sacrifice. They do it because the rest of us need to hear the stories that they tell
104 Unakite  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:35:08pm

So who are the 34 that didn’t vote.
//Just askin’

105 Flyers1974  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:35:28pm

re: #89 JacksonTn

Except my statement was in regard to certain congressmen from very liberal districts who would be unconstrained by voter concern about Iran, and thus completely free to vote on this resolution as they wished. If this is about a political ideology, i’m just wondering why those districts didn’t vote “no.”

106 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:35:49pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

Since a lot of people still care about statements: Obama sez……

“Present!”

/spits

107 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:36:03pm

Easy Money Live

Youtube Video
108 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:36:32pm

Did Paul work any gratuitous refernces to the USS Libtery?

109 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:36:45pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

I think a lot of the change happened after 9-11. Bush ran (and won) a campaign mocking nation building and such.

Hey KT! There must be thousands of policy statements on the web in PDF files from the early 60’s.. From the wiz kids through GWB….
I think a big part of the equation is current events and political winds…just like 911…Everything goes out the window in a couple of hours..
I think most of history is just like that…..

110 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:36:52pm

“Can’t I just waffle while eating my waffle?”

111 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:37:15pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

Since a lot of people still care about statements: Obama sez……

oooo!….how profound!…he’s telling us what we are seeing!….good grief

112 wiffersnapper  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:37:38pm

“On this issue, Ron Paul and Barack Obama are on the same page”

They both voted “present”?

113 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:37:59pm

Kings X

Always liked this song…
groovy.

114 David Simon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:38:17pm

re: #70 spiderx

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

Yes, our nuanced president understands the finer points of diplomacy. The Great Satan is lucky to have him.

115 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:38:34pm

re: #111 albusteve

Yeah, what you said!

116 MJ  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:38:57pm

re: #54 Jim in Virginia

Two Congressmen actually did vote present on this- Keith Ellison and a Republican from Iowa, I think.

Not true.

Keith Ellison did vote for the measure.

You’re mixing up Ellsworth with Ellison.

[Link: clerk.house.gov…]

117 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:39:39pm

re: #109 HoosierHoops

Everything goes out the window in a couple of hours..
I think most of history is just like that…..


Agreed. It’s entirely possible that the Republicans might lapse back into isolationism. Glenn Beck takes the Paulian view that maintaining our global empire is draining our treasury. It might become part of the Republican concept of “fiscal responsibility”. Stranger things have happened.

118 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:39:47pm

re: #112 wiffersnapper

“On this issue, Ron Paul and Barack Obama are on the same page”

They both voted “present”?

Ron Paul voted “No” on the resolution.

119 MJ  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:40:06pm

Here’s the final vote:

[Link: clerk.house.gov…]

120 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:40:50pm

re: #105 Flyers1974

Except my statement was in regard to certain congressmen from very liberal districts who would be unconstrained by voter concern about Iran, and thus completely free to vote on this resolution as they wished. If this is about a political ideology, i’m just wondering why those districts didn’t vote “no.”

Flyers1974 … are you really saying that congress actually always votes the way people in their districts want them to? … hahaha … I guess I wasted much fax paper … my congressman is a yellow sack of crap … and he is suppose to be a blue dog … haha … he rolled for the dems … you can have him …

121 Bloodnok  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:41:10pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Easy Money Live

[Video]

I love that lineup. Wetton was a fantastic bass player. It’s a shame Asia sucked as much as it did. (If you’ve never heard the live album “The Nightwatch” which was released in the 90s -a show from 1973 - I highly recommend it. Probably the best quality live album I have heard and better-than-album quality versions of everything). Bruford is as good as any drummer needs to be. Maybe better.

122 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:41:22pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

Agreed. It’s entirely possible that the Republicans might lapse back into isolationism. Glenn Beck takes the Paulian view that maintaining our global empire is draining our treasury. It might become part of the Republican concept of “fiscal responsibility”. Stranger things have happened.

liberal welfare policies are draining our treasury…and that’s something for nothing….

123 Kulhwch  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:41:35pm

Sorry, OT but this guy has *got* to go …

John Freshwater, an eighth-grade science teacher facing dismissal for allegedly preaching in the classroom, is suing the Mount Vernon City School District, saying it violated his constitutional and civil rights.

The lawsuit, seeking $500,000 in compensatory damages and $500,000 in punitive damages, was filed this week in U.S. District Court in Columbus.

Freshwater’s suit calls the actions of the school board, the superintendent and the middle-school principal “malicious, fraudulent and oppressive and committed with an improper and evil motive.”

The board announced last June that it intended to fire Freshwater for preaching his Christian beliefs about how the world began, discrediting evolution and deviating from the required science curriculum. An investigation initiated by the board found that Freshwater used a high-voltage lab tool to burn crosses into the arms of students* and that he told them gays were sinners.

}:)     [* Wonder why the parents didn’t go down and kick his butt!]

124 Flyers1974  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:41:40pm

re: #88 ShanghaiEd

Question, for anybody. When I was young, most Republicans had a one-sentence foreign policy: “We are not the world’s policeman.” Democrats were the nation-builders and freedom-spreaders.

When did they start to swap positions, and why?

I remember your quotation from recent times. I’d agree that if anyone advocated “nation building,” it was Democrats. I’m not sure if either party had the monopoly on “freedom spreading.”

125 DistantThunder  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:41:41pm

Left and right seem inadequate. I think a better category of congressmen is Bottom Dwellers. And of course there are those rare few that are Upstanding.

126 IslandLibertarian  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:41:56pm

re: #110 livefreeor die

“Can’t I just waffle while eating my waffle?”

I can see it now. “Wobbly Waffles”. A clown cook with big ears flipping pancakes and a steaming enviro-friendly waffle iron. “No domestic oils used in cooking”label.
A franchi$e! We’ll make million$!

127 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:42:35pm

re: #121 Bloodnok

Bruford is as good as any drummer needs to be.


He was really good, not many people today appreciate him.

128 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:42:36pm

Obama/Paul ‘12!

129 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:43:14pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

He was really good, not many people today appreciate him.

same with Steve Howe…lost in the fog

130 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:43:51pm

re: #128 albusteve

Obama/Paul ‘12!

albusteve … NO! … Paulbots and Obama ACORNers running around putting up signs all over like ant armies …

131 wiffersnapper  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:43:55pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

I know ;)

132 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:44:26pm

Hey, um, does anyone have any idea what a succor punch is? To make a long story short, I stumbled upon this while googling around for some plans to build a simple electronic device. At first I thought it had something to do with some famous video game that I’m too old to know about. But now it looks like I may have stumbled into some kind of whole new world of crazy.

133 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:44:35pm

re: #129 albusteve

Yeah, he was widely appreciated at one time but people only seem to remember Van Halen these days.

134 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:44:47pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

I think a lot of the change happened after 9-11. Bush ran (and won) a campaign mocking nation building and such.

Good point. I had forgotten that quote in the Bush/Gore debate:

…The vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders.

I’m assuming that in 2000, “nation building” translated as the Balkans.

135 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:44:48pm

re: #116 MJ

Not true.

Keith Ellison did vote for the measure.

You’re mixing up Ellsworth with Ellison.

[Link: clerk.house.gov…]

Thanks for the correction. Loebsack is from Iowa, Ellsworth from Indiana. Both Democrats.

136 Bloodnok  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:46:06pm

Repost -better version.

Easy Money, from The Nightwatch (best in HQ)

Youtube Video
137 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:46:20pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

Agreed. It’s entirely possible that the Republicans might lapse back into isolationism. Glenn Beck takes the Paulian view that maintaining our global empire is draining our treasury. It might become part of the Republican concept of “fiscal responsibility”. Stranger things have happened.

KT.. It’s important to the GOP to develop young sharp talent….They need to foster young leadership or else they will wander the desert for years….
It’s really that simple…..

138 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:46:59pm

re: #132 Last Mohican

Hey, um, does anyone have any idea what a succor punch is? To make a long story short, I stumbled upon this while googling around for some plans to build a simple electronic device. At first I thought it had something to do with some famous video game that I’m too old to know about. But now it looks like I may have stumbled into some kind of whole new world of crazy.


Wow…just wow. I looked at the first couple of websites-it’s like turning over a big rock.
I bet I know who these people’s congressional representative is!

139 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:47:09pm

The Iranian people. Pesky flies buzzing around Obama’s waffle.

140 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:47:17pm

re: #88 ShanghaiEd

Question, for anybody. When I was young, most Republicans had a one-sentence foreign policy: “We are not the world’s policeman.” Democrats were the nation-builders and freedom-spreaders.

When did they start to swap positions, and why?

When the bad people of the world took an earnest interest in destroying and disrupting our domestic and foreign interests.

/at that point, when they stop leaving you alone, isolationism is the wrong answer, if you don’t fight back, you’ll just keep getting hurt

141 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:47:29pm

Zero hour awaits. 4pm local time. Mousavi holds his rally, there will be blood. Ahamdinejad has to crack down or else the regime loses face, respect, and power. The blood that spills may be Ahmadinejad if the rally takes on a life of its own.

Mousavi doesn’t have that rally? Ahmadinejad wins, and there will be blood as he purges the regime of all those who opposed him.

142 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:47:36pm

re: #130 JacksonTn

albusteve … NO! … Paulbots and Obama ACORNers running around putting up signs all over like ant armies …

we have no business meddling in the Straights of Hormuz….stay focused on the West Bank! where one room additions are holding world peace hostage!

143 NY Nana  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:47:38pm

Who can forget that the POS, Onray Ualpay, said this:

Ron Paul: ‘Israel Created Hamas!’

Youtube Video
144 Flyers1974  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:47:42pm

re: #120 JacksonTn

Flyers1974 … are you really saying that congress actually always votes the way people in their districts want them to? … hahaha … I guess I wasted much fax paper … my congressman is a yellow sack of crap … and he is suppose to be a blue dog … haha … he rolled for the dems … you can have him …

My sympathies on your guy. As to congressman always voting as their constituents want, i’m not sure where I implied that in my prior. Anyhow, that is definitely not what I believe. As an aside, I would believe it - if enough people in a district knew enough and cared enough about a particular issue to pressure their congressperson.

145 Dianna  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:48:13pm

re: #129 albusteve

same with Steve Howe…lost in the fog

Steve Howe is deeply missed by those of us who appreciate actual subtlety.

146 DEZes  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:48:48pm

Oh crap, I just swatted a bug, PETA is gonna be so pissed.

147 irongrampa  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #132 Last Mohican

Dunno, but a short perusal of 2 of the links was a real hoot. Some weapons grade crazy there.

148 nyc redneck  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:49:20pm

re: #70 spiderx

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

no he hasn’t handled it well at all.
only the mullahs are benefiting from him keeping his gob shut.
they don’t care what he says. one way or the other.
it is the people of iran who are disheartened and suffering because he has refused to lend any encouragement at all to them.
o looks bad for his detached and cold reaction to this situation in iran.
people are dying in the streets. murdered by brutal thugs.
and o thinks words will meddle.

149 kansas  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:49:35pm

re: #91 Fenway_Nation

Wonder how much longer it will be before Dems start scraping their 0bama or 0bama-Biden ‘08 Bumper stickers off their sweet Fiat Chrysler minivan or 300….

I still see Kerry-Edwards stickers. Democrats never take off bumper stickers.

150 iceweasel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:49:59pm

re: #132 Last Mohican

Hey, um, does anyone have any idea what a succor punch is? To make a long story short, I stumbled upon this while googling around for some plans to build a simple electronic device. At first I thought it had something to do with some famous video game that I’m too old to know about. But now it looks like I may have stumbled into some kind of whole new world of crazy.

Good lord.

To utilize the SP, you turn it on and hold it over your heart chakra and tell it what you want it to do. If you are a victim of ELF or microwave Psychotronic torture, you instruct the SP to create a perfect shield against any form of harmful energy that is beamed at you from any dimension, which is intended to cause you harm from any sentient being or thought form directing that harmful energy towards you. You also program the SP crystal to transmute any negative directed energy that may penetrate your protective shield, into a life-enhancing energy that invigorates and energizes you, rather than harm you. You can also program the SP to beam the energy back to the responsible offending party or parties who are responsible for sending this negative energy to you, the same negative energy, but in an intensified form that the offending parties are defenseless to shield against. Some like to refer to this game as “Etheric Warfare”, but I prefer the less military term of “Etheric Resistance.”

I don’t know what ‘microwave Psychotronic torture’ is, but I think I just experienced it while reading that.

Words. Fail.

151 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:50:24pm

re: #144 Flyers1974

My sympathies on your guy. As to congressman always voting as their constituents want, i’m not sure where I implied that in my prior. Anyhow, that is definitely not what I believe. As an aside, I would believe it - if enough people in a district knew enough and cared enough about a particular issue to pressure their congressperson.

Flyers1974 … I assure you … the congressman from my district would have to been deaf dumb and blind (which I now think he is) … to NOT know what the people around here wanted … he rolled … bent over … just like many of the blue dogs … the pressure from above was just I guess to much for them … I hope they rot in political hell … because … well, you know … it was an historic election …

152 albusteve  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:50:44pm

re: #145 Dianna

Steve Howe is deeply missed by those of us who appreciate actual subtlety.

he’s around…buy his music

153 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:51:09pm

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it at least twice:

hope that everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he was not conservative enough is fucking happy now!

154 3 wood  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:51:18pm

OT: 3 more banks fail.

Three banks fail, bringing year’s total to 40


Banks in Georgia, North Carolina and Kansas were closed by regulators Friday, bringing the total number of failures for the year to 40 as the financial and credit markets continue to claim victims.

Fayetteville, Ga.-based Southern Community Bank was closed, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; its deposits have been assumed by Blairsville, Ga.-based United Community Bank.

Southern Community is the seventh bank to fail in Georgia this year. It had $377 million in assets and $307 million in deposits as of May 29, according to the FDIC. United Community has agreed to acquire roughly $364 million of the failed bank’s assets.

The FDIC estimated that the failure of Southern Community will cost its deposit-insurance fund $114 million.

Wilmington, N.C.-based Cooperative Bank was also closed, marking the second failure in that state this year. Troy, N.C.-based First Bank has agreed to assume the failed bank’s deposits.

Cooperative Bank had $970 million in assets and $774 million in deposits as of May 31, according to the FDIC. First Bank also has agreed to buy roughly $942 million of the failed bank’s assets.

155 EaterOfFood  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:51:28pm

re: #12 Charles

This is the point where paleolibertarianism and progressive leftism collide, merge, and give birth to a horrific new political fringe.

The Coalition of the Unwilling.

156 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:51:30pm

All those pundits who are silent about Obama’s silence would have been effusive if he had given the Iranian people words of support.

157 Dianna  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:51:37pm

re: #150 iceweasel

I don’t know what ‘microwave Psychotronic torture’ is, but I think I just experienced it while reading that.

Words. Fail.

Oh, my. You’re behind the times. That nuttiness was familiar to me in the 80’s.

158 iceweasel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:51:59pm

re: #147 irongrampa

Dunno, but a short perusal of 2 of the links was a real hoot. Some weapons grade crazy there.

Indeed. WMD: Weapons of Massive Derangement.

159 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:52:10pm

re: #141 lawhawk

Zero hour awaits. 4pm local time. Mousavi holds his rally, there will be blood. Ahamdinejad has to crack down or else the regime loses face, respect, and power. The blood that spills may be Ahmadinejad if the rally takes on a life of its own.

Mousavi doesn’t have that rally? Ahmadinejad wins, and there will be blood as he purges the regime of all those who opposed him.

Either way, there will be blood. May God grant the forces of freedom victory. Their cause is right, their valor noble, may God grant them his blessings and aid.

I ask this in Jesus’ name,

Amen

160 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:52:11pm

re: #132 Last Mohican

Hey, um, does anyone have any idea what a succor punch is? To make a long story short, I stumbled upon this while googling around for some plans to build a simple electronic device. At first I thought it had something to do with some famous video game that I’m too old to know about. But now it looks like I may have stumbled into some kind of whole new world of crazy.

*THUD*

Dude, did you forget the first rule of Succor Punch club ?

//

161 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:52:38pm

re: #132 Last Mohican
From one of the links:

A Succor Punch is the name coined for a quartz crystal that has a mobius coil wrapped around it in a special knotting configuration The special knot creates a ‘node’ which enhances the desired action. When you pulse a square wave signal from a squarewave signal generator (I call my 15 Hz squarewave generator the SP Pulser -described below) into the mobius coil, it sets up a chaos field which interacts with the crystal to create scalar waves which can then be programmed with your thoughts. Forces are set in motion both on the third and fourth dimensional levels. To utilize the SP, you turn it on and hold it over your heart chakra and tell it what you want it to do. If you are a victim of ELF or microwave Psychotronic torture, you instruct the SP to create a perfect shield against any form of harmful energy that is beamed at you..

One of the links also had a Truther reference.
Cue the Twilight Zone music.

162 Dianna  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:52:38pm

re: #152 albusteve

he’s around…buy his music

I do - but my Male isn’t that much of an appreciator.

163 SteveRogers  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:52:41pm

Obama doesn’t want to meddle so he will muddle.

164 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:52:51pm

re: #153 MandyManners

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it at least twice:

hope that everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he was not conservative enough is fucking happy now!

You can’t say it enough.

165 iceweasel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:53:18pm

re: #157 Dianna

Oh, my. You’re behind the times. That nuttiness was familiar to me in the 80’s.

I’d never even heard of any of it before! Spooky.

166 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:53:38pm

re: #153 MandyManners

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it at least twice:

hope that everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he was not conservative enough is fucking happy now!

It’s not always nice to hear you say that….
It’s nice to see you Mandy…..Good evening…..The lights are totally flicking out… May not have the net soon….Crap!

167 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:54:13pm

re: #150 iceweasel

Seriously, is that stuff part of Scientology?

168 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:54:19pm

re: #154 3 wood

OT: 3 more banks fail.

Three banks fail, bringing year’s total to 40

And they’ll all be open for business again Monday.

/hey 40, with a week to go in Q2, that’s not that bad, surely the worst is over for this year, at least

169 Dianna  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:54:26pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

I wonder - why on earth do you invoke Jesus as if it were magic? Because - from where I’m standing - that looks very, very much like a magical invocation.

170 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:55:01pm

re: #122 albusteve

liberal welfare policies are draining our treasury…and that’s something for nothing….

Let me correct that statement just a tad, ‘liberal warfare is draining our treasury.’

Ever read Colin S. Gray’s, ‘Can the American Way of War Adapt’?

You might find it interesting.

171 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:55:38pm

re: #147 irongrampa

Dunno, but a short perusal of 2 of the links was a real hoot. Some weapons grade crazy there.

That’s a good way to put it. Isn’t this amazing? The weirdest thing is, there are like, dozens of these sites, and everyone on them seems to know exactly what everyone else is talking about.

172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:56:03pm

Going down early tonight.

Y’all take care.

173 Dianna  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:56:34pm

re: #167 livefreeor die

Seriously, is that stuff part of Scientology?

No, though they don’t seem to have a problem with Scientology. It’s an update of a late-victorian sythesis called Theosophy.

174 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:56:38pm

re: #150 iceweasel
Sis?
Were we separated at birth?

175 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:56:52pm

re: #166 HoosierHoops

It’s not always nice to hear you say that….
It’s nice to see you Mandy…..Good evening…..The lights are totally flicking out… May not have the net soon….Crap!

DUCK!

(I’ve some Montrose in the next thread.)

176 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:57:04pm

re: #160 SasquatchOnSteroids

*THUD*

Dude, did you forget the first rule of Succor Punch club ?

//

Apparently!

I think livefree or die was right, this must have something to do with scientology. I read something about “orgones,” and I think that’s a scientology thing, right?

177 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:57:28pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

You can’t say it enough.

It’s etched into my little gray cells.

178 nyc redneck  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:57:49pm

it is amazing that he is so talkative abt. everything in the world except this terrible situation in iran. right now he is telling jokes and yucking it up at some convention.
does this guy ever stay home?
he is always out looking for applause.

179 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:57:53pm

re: #169 Dianna

I wonder - why on earth do you invoke Jesus as if it were magic? Because - from where I’m standing - that looks very, very much like a magical invocation.

I didn’t mean it that way. I said the best way I knew how.

180 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:58:07pm

re: #177 MandyManners

It’s etched into my little gray cells.

Mine too.

181 Dianna  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:58:08pm

re: #176 Last Mohican

Apparently!

I think livefree or die was right, this must have something to do with scientology. I read something about “orgones,” and I think that’s a scientology thing, right?

Nope. Orgone energy is the work of another nut, much ahead of L. Ron Hubbard.

182 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:58:31pm

re: #171 Last Mohican

That’s a good way to put it. Isn’t this amazing? The weirdest thing is, there are like, dozens of these sites, and everyone on them seems to know exactly what everyone else is talking about.

It’s one massive group delusion.
Do they have blogs or message boards? I didn’t stay long enough to check-I didn’t want them to send their scalar thought whoozy-whatsits at me.

183 Unakite  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:59:12pm

re: #150 iceweasel

I don’t know what ‘microwave Psychotronic torture’ is, but I think I just experienced it while reading that.

Words. Fail.

Amazing what you run across. Check out Ekankar (a long time ago, my brother dated a girl who was into … oh, never mind).

184 Dianna  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:59:39pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

I didn’t mean it that way. I said the best way I knew how.

I’ve gotten very sensitive, lately, about the way the name of Jesus is invoked. It’s one thing to pray for wisdom and guidance; it’s quite another to ask for actual actions by others. That’s the old issue of magic compulsion.

185 iceweasel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:59:45pm

re: #167 livefreeor die

Seriously, is that stuff part of Scientology?

I couldn’t say. I think the Scientologists do have some kind of ‘device’ that people touch and it’s supposed to do something with vibrations and other dimensions and your spiritual energy.

It sounds like a lot of other wacky New Age claims too.

Oh well. To paraphrase Flannery O’Connor, “Everything that’s crazy must converge”.

186 JacksonTn  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 6:59:53pm

re: #183 Unakite

Amazing what you run across. Check out Ekankar (a long time ago, my brother dated a girl who was into … oh, never mind).

Unakite … I remember that from the 70s …

187 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:00:04pm

Basij Militia Allegedly Use Axes, Daggers to Attack Iranian Protesters

The pro-government Basij militia has held back its full fury during this week’s street demonstrations. But witnesses say the force has unleashed its violence in shadowy nighttime raids, attacking suspected opposition sympathizers with axes, daggers, sticks and other crude weapons.

/if I was going to an opposition protest in Iran tomorrow, I’d look through my tool shed first

188 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:00:06pm

re: #176 Last Mohican

Apparently!

I think livefree or die was right, this must have something to do with scientology. I read something about “orgones,” and I think that’s a scientology thing, right?

Crazy stuff. The orgone was Wilhelm Reich (?) I think, back in the 1920s. He had a large and rabid following. I thought it had all died out.

But there’s some aspect of Scientology that sounds a lot like orgone. I just can’t think of it.

189 jaunte  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:00:43pm

re: #188 ShanghaiEd

They talk about ‘orgs’ a lot.

190 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:02:23pm

re: #187 Killian Bundy

Basij Militia Allegedly Use Axes, Daggers to Attack Iranian Protesters

/if I was going to an opposition protest in Iran tomorrow, I’d look through my tool shed first

Some steel pipes would do well, as would a good MagLight.

191 3 wood  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:02:41pm

New GM complications:

New Objections May Delay G.M. Exit From Bankruptcy


A group of General Motors bondholders and some of the automaker’s labor unions filed objections on Friday to G.M.’s plan to sell its assets to a new company that could emerge from bankruptcy protection.

So what’s the beef?

The bondholders’ group, Unofficial Committee of Family and Dissident G.M. Bondholders, said it was being treated unfairly compared with the automaker’s other stakeholders and deserved more than the 10 percent stake in the new company that it would receive if the sale went through.

OK so they 10 cents on the dollar. So what’s wrong with that?

As part of G.M.’s restructuring plan, the automaker wants to sell the bulk of its assets to a new company in which the federal government would take a 60 percent stake. The Canadian government would get 12.5 percent, the U.A.W. 17.5 percent and unsecured bondholders 10 percent. Existing G.M. shareholders are expected to be wiped out.

So the Gov’t would take 60% the union would get 17.5% and the bondholders 10%.

I think the courts have already decided a similar case in favor of transferring wealth to the unions. the unions. But this time some unions are plaintiffs too.

So it will be interesting to see how the courts deal with this one.

192 [deleted]  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:02:47pm
193 iceweasel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:03:27pm

re: #174 Jim in Virginia

Sis?
Were we separated at birth?

Right? We must have been reading the exact same site at the exact same time, too. :)

194 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:03:50pm

re: #182 livefreeor die

It’s one massive group delusion.
Do they have blogs or message boards? I didn’t stay long enough to check-I didn’t want them to send their scalar thought whoozy-whatsits at me.

They sure do!
Here’s one, at which they offer each other advice on their little psychotronic doohickeys.

Ok, this one occurred to me a few weeks ago, on the heels of the dolphin talk going on over at EW.

Instead of plugging your succor punch or cesco coil into a 15 hz zapper, why not plug it into a tape recorder or computer playing back dolphin or whalesong?

I haven’t tried this yet… I’m not much of an energy sensitive. But I’m guessing that it might be the next best thing to actually being around our oceanic friends.

And there seem to be a whole bunch of these forums related to something called “cloudbusters.” Here’s one where someone apparently suggests using these cloudbusters to counteract the harmful effects of chemtrails.

195 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:04:39pm

There’s a wold in between isolationism and non-interventionism.

Besides. All the mullahs need is the excuse to label this a Western backed rebellion to go all Tianiman on it. If the west gets behind it, it robs the rebellion movement of some of its organic legitimacy. Sorry if it makes me sound like a Troskyist but revolution has to happen organicly from the bottom up.

196 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:04:50pm

re: #189 jaunte

They talk about ‘orgs’ a lot.

Orgs! That’s it. Sea Org, etc.

Thanks. I was wracking my brain. I did recall that their hand-held measuring devices are E-meters, though. Short for electrometer.

197 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:05:09pm

re: #191 3 wood

New GM complications:

New Objections May Delay G.M. Exit From Bankruptcy

So the Gov’t would take 60% the union would get 17.5% and the bondholders 10%.

I think the courts have already decided a similar case in favor of transferring wealth to the unions. the unions. But this time some unions are plaintiffs too.

So it will be interesting to see how the courts deal with this one.

And this folks. is what we call a “clusterfuck”.

198 iceweasel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:05:11pm

re: #183 Unakite

Amazing what you run across. Check out Ekankar (a long time ago, my brother dated a girl who was into … oh, never mind).

Wow, that stuff mentions orgones too! Weird!
[Link: www.hscti.com…]

199 Flyers1974  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:05:56pm

re: #151 JacksonTn

Flyers1974 … I assure you … the congressman from my district would have to been deaf dumb and blind (which I now think he is) … to NOT know what the people around here wanted … he rolled … bent over … just like many of the blue dogs … the pressure from above was just I guess to much for them … I hope they rot in political hell … because … well, you know … it was an historic election …

If you’re right about how people in your district felt, I’m sure he will be punished next time around.

200 Unakite  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:06:51pm

re: #186 JacksonTn

Unakite … I remember that from the 70s …

Crazy sh*t coming out of the 60s (I guess).

201 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:07:45pm

re: #194 Last Mohican

And there seem to be a whole bunch of these forums related to something called “cloudbusters.” Here’s one where someone apparently suggests using these cloudbusters to counteract the harmful effects of chemtrails.

Must.Not.Make.Up.A.Threat.And.Offer.These.People.A.Device.To.Prevent.Such.Threat.

202 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:07:47pm

Fox news from Tehran- militias are out in large numbers, well armed, aggressive. “I don’t think I’m going to be out here much longer. Today will be a real turning point.”

203 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:09:58pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

Mine too.

Glad to share!

204 irongrampa  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:10:09pm

re: #201 livefreeor die

Your post went too far that way——————->

Turn off your succor punch.

205 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:10:16pm

re: #202 Jim in Virginia

Fox news from Tehran- militias are out in large numbers, well armed, aggressive. “I don’t think I’m going to be out here much longer. Today will be a real turning point.”

And that’s probably the closeout for the protesters. Some will try to mass, the Basiji will beat them down. The bad guys win. I hope it doesn’t turn out that way, but I expect that it will.

206 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:11:35pm

re: #201 livefreeor die

Must.Not.Make.Up.A.Threat.And.Offer.These.People.A .Device.To.Prevent.Such.Threat.

Now you’re talking.

Maybe this is a job for SpaceJesus.

207 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:11:45pm

re: #183 Unakite

Amazing what you run across. Check out Ekankar (a long time ago, my brother dated a girl who was into … oh, never mind).

I had a friend in the 70s…brilliant guy, engineering student, a bit of a cynic…who was head-over-heels into Ekankar for a while. The enthusiasm was short-lived, and he wasn’t interested in talking about it afterwards.

208 nyc redneck  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:12:02pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

And that’s probably the closeout for the protesters. Some will try to mass, the Basiji will beat them down. The bad guys win. I hope it doesn’t turn out that way, but I expect that it will.

our founding fathers knew the 2nd amendment was important.

209 [deleted]  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:12:06pm
210 NY Nana  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:12:13pm

re: #153 MandyManners

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it at least twice:

hope that everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he was not conservative enough is fucking happy now!

Mandy, please say it at least once a week…and let those who voted for The One be reminded of what their votes caused…and will still be causing long after he is out of office.

211 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:12:25pm

re: #194 Last Mohican

re: #204 irongrampa

Your post went too far that way——————->

Turn off your succor punch.

Sorry-someone’s bad thought energy must have screwed up my crystal. It hasn’t been the same since I sprayed Windex on it.

212 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:12:35pm

re: #202 Jim in Virginia

Fox news from Tehran- militias are out in large numbers, well armed, aggressive. “I don’t think I’m going to be out here much longer. Today will be a real turning point.”

/if you aim for the King, you’d better kill him

213 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:14:30pm

re: #208 nyc redneck

our founding fathers knew the 2nd amendment was important.

Indeed. The protesters are brave and fierce, but without firearms I fear they’re marching into a bloodbath. Too many Basiji are fanatics who will kill on command. They won’t stop, because they think they’re on a mission from God.

214 iceweasel  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:14:57pm

re: #206 Last Mohican

Now you’re talking.

Maybe this is a job for SpaceJesus.

What Would SpaceJesus Do?

WWSJD

215 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:14:58pm

Has anyone warned the succor punch crowd about the risks posed by solid deodorants and traffic lights?

216 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:15:34pm

re: #211 livefreeor die

re: #204 irongrampa

Sorry-someone’s bad thought energy must have screwed up my crystal. It hasn’t been the same since I sprayed Windex on it.

You might want to try lowering the resonant frequency of your psychotronic zapper until you get that cleared up. It’ll provide greater destructive interference for bad thought energy.

Also you could clean it with nail polish remover.

217 irongrampa  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:16:42pm

re: #215 livefreeor die

Also the risk involved from slamming right smack into reality.

218 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:16:48pm

re: #215 livefreeor die

Has anyone warned the succor punch crowd about the risks posed by solid deodorants and traffic lights?

If not, someone should. There’s at least a 50% chance that they’ve already designed a device to protect themselves, but either way, it would be fun.

219 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:17:23pm

re: #216 Last Mohican

You might want to try lowering the resonant frequency of your psychotronic zapper until you get that cleared up. It’ll provide greater destructive interference for bad thought energy.

Also you could clean it with nail polish remover.

Heavens, no polish remover. Only Bon Ami on a chamois. Or is it vice versa?

220 [deleted]  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:18:04pm
221 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:18:08pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

And that’s probably the closeout for the protesters. Some will try to mass, the Basiji will beat them down. The bad guys win. I hope it doesn’t turn out that way, but I expect that it will.


I don’t think there are enough bad guys. The people are really pissed, I think they will fight back. The Army and police are not firmly on the side of the mullahs.
Bad times coming. This and the Norks at the same time,and just like Joe said, we won’t be sure O’s reaction is right.

222 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:18:54pm

re: #218 Last Mohican

If not, someone should. There’s at least a 50% chance that they’ve already designed a device to protect themselves, but either way, it would be fun.

I could have my ninth grade son and his friends design something large, with flashing lights, buzzers, crystals, and dolphin sounds. And buttons and levers. Yours now for the incredibly low price of $99.99.

223 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:19:12pm

re: #210 NY Nana

Mandy, please say it at least once a week…and let those who voted for The One be reminded of what their votes caused…and will still be causing long after he is out of office.

I rarely think about it until a subject comes up that lights it up for me in my mind.

224 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:19:16pm

re: #215 livefreeor die

Has anyone warned the succor punch crowd about the risks posed by solid deodorants and traffic lights?


Not to mention soap and toothpaste. Baking soda, too.

225 [deleted]  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:20:10pm
226 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:20:36pm

re: #222 livefreeor die

I could have my ninth grade son and his friends design something large, with flashing lights, buzzers, crystals, and dolphin sounds. And buttons and levers. Yours now for the incredibly low price of $99.99.

I’ll give you twenty quatloos for it!

227 Last Mohican  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:20:44pm

re: #218 Last Mohican

If there is a device that can protect you from the evil traffic light energy, you can probably buy it here. Maybe “the vortexer” would work. It’s on sale for $199.99, and they accept all major credit cards and PayPal.

Apparently the Tachyon Holy Hand Grenade is still under development, but will be released soon.

/No, I’m not kidding, and what the hell is going on?

228 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:20:48pm

re: #224 Jim in Virginia

Not to mention soap and toothpaste. Baking soda, too.

And, as a public health service, we should probably warn them about marijuana. It’s probably too late to tell them about the risks associated with LSD.

229 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:21:00pm

re: #221 Jim in Virginia

I don’t think there are enough bad guys. The people are really pissed, I think they will fight back. The Army and police are not firmly on the side of the mullahs.
Bad times coming. This and the Norks at the same time,and just like Joe said, we won’t be sure O’s reaction is right.

They will fight back, but I suspect the bad guys do have enough loyal guns to deal with them. However, I’m only giving my scenario a 60% chance of being right. The good guys can will, make no mistake.

230 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:21:47pm

re: #221 Jim in Virginia

The Army and police are not firmly on the side of the mullahs.

/let’s just hope we’ve been making the necessary phone calls and bribed enough of them to achieve the required tipping point

231 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:21:55pm

re: #225 taxfreekiller

lay back, let the mullahs show their hand
lay low, let them use up energy,
lay low, learn their tactics
lay low, film
lay low, be alive, the dead can not fight, the number one rule,

Lay back now and they’ll round out the protesters one-by-one. Its now or never, tfk.

232 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:21:59pm

I wonder how John Kerry will vote if they have one in the Senate.

How about a resolution condemning the election results and requesting international review of any recounts?

233 NY Nana  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:22:26pm

re: #223 MandyManners

I rarely think about it until a subject comes up that lights it up for me in my mind.

And when you do, you do it so well.

You have a way with words. ;)

234 livefreeor die  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:24:34pm

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

They will fight back, but I suspect the bad guys do have enough loyal guns to deal with them. However, I’m only giving my scenario a 60% chance of being right. The good guys can will, make no mistake.

My hope is that if the good guys can fire back, the bad guys (who are bullies and used to having all the hardware) will fold quickly.

235 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:26:17pm

Speaking of orgone and succor punches and e-meters…

There’s a really dark, funny novel about secret societies, pseudosciences, etc., called The Masters of Atlantis. Written in the 1980s by Charles Portis, who’s best known for True Grit. Highly recommended, and there are generally some used copies on the Internets.

236 [deleted]  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:27:22pm
237 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:27:55pm

re: #227 Last Mohican
That guy’s website badly needs an editor.

238 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:32:02pm

Red Rover, Red Rover, and the military comes over.

/band Mullahs on the run

239 Unakite  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:32:45pm

re: #207 ShanghaiEd

I had a friend in the 70s…brilliant guy, engineering student, a bit of a cynic…who was head-over-heels into Ekankar for a while. The enthusiasm was short-lived, and he wasn’t interested in talking about it afterwards.

Finally figured out the the travel brochure was overhyped?
//

240 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:35:16pm

I get the impression that the intended effects of the Succor Punch could be achieved much more effectively and at less expense by the Little Blue Pill.

241 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:35:37pm

Given his racism, Ron may believe libertarian means “liberty for Aryans”. I guess he thinks the Persians - the original Aryans - are some kind of awful Semitic Untermenschen.

RevoLution!

242 razorbacker  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:41:25pm

re: #234 livefreeor die

My hope is that if the good guys can fire back, the bad guys (who are bullies and used to having all the hardware) will fold quickly.

I’m not sure that there are ‘good guys’ here. I think that the best we can hope for are guys slightly less bad than the ones now in control.

Even if the demonstrations succeed, not much will change. Maybe Iran’s nuclear bomb…er…power plant program will be delayed; that is probably the best we can expect.

So, yes, root for those opposing LittleDinnerJacket. Chaos in Iran may well be better than Iran united in seeking nuclear bombs.

It is hard to remember that this mess started because the Shah was so bad that good people didn’t think the Mullahs could be worse. And the Shah was a friend to the US, or as much a friend as we had amongst the mussullmen.

243 Spartacus50  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:49:32pm

luap nor: CNN’s favorite Republican

244 Spartacus50  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:52:41pm

Don’t forget about Rand Paul, the Living Sequel!

245 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #244 Spartacus50

Don’t forget about Rand Paul, the Living Sequel!

I prefer to think of him as the little nugget, compared to the original turd.

246 FamHistoryGuy  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 8:13:40pm

re: #169 Dianna

Prayer is a form of magical invocation.

247 hokiepride  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 8:14:56pm

LOL,
Paulestinians really think that their god Ron Paul is the next best thing since sliced bread. A cursory look at Ron Paul’s platform indicates that he wants the goobermint to interfere with social issues, free trade…etc. How is that “libertarian”?. Oh thats right, he wants to legalize marijuana, therefore he is a libertarian. The fact is that if the mullahs of Iran are toppled, everybody not just the US would be better off. Something that Ron “Marijuana” Paul cannot comprehend.

248 hazzyday  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 8:25:11pm

re: #70 spiderx

Obama has handled the situation very well . Any statement by the Obama administration would be used as propaganda by the Iranian government which they would use to portray the uprising as not legitimate.

There is a hope and change part of the Iranian population waiting for Pres Obama to put his money where his speech is. Pres Obama could lose what little Iranian support he has by giving big world wide speeches and not acting.

249 Spartacus50  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 8:25:48pm

re: #247 hokiepride

LOL,
Paulestinians really think that their god Ron Paul is the next best thing since sliced bread. A cursory look at Ron Paul’s platform indicates that he wants the goobermint to interfere with social issues, free trade…etc. How is that “libertarian”?. Oh thats right, he wants to legalize marijuana, therefore he is a libertarian. The fact is that if the mullahs of Iran are toppled, everybody not just the US would be better off. Something that Ron “Marijuana” Paul cannot comprehend.

A libertarian who owes his very existence to the public sector. A magnificent anachronism

250 hazzyday  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 8:28:37pm

re: #246 FamHistoryGuy

Prayer is a form of magical invocation.

It’s a conventional focusing of thought with a purpose usually divine.

There are different types of prayers. Suggestion plays a role as does the subsconciousness. We don’t know the exact unconscious effect of prayer.

251 Macker  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 8:55:36pm

re: #16 Charles

Maybe this new fringe should be called ‘iso-leftism’.

I think Ronulans sounds just fine.

252 capitalist piglet  Fri, Jun 19, 2009 9:28:35pm

re: #184 Dianna

I’ve gotten very sensitive, lately, about the way the name of Jesus is invoked. It’s one thing to pray for wisdom and guidance; it’s quite another to ask for actual actions by others. That’s the old issue of magic compulsion.

Hi, Dianna! I ordinarily agree with just about everything you post, but I am having trouble understanding why you are taking issue with the way someone closed a prayer. That phrase is very common among evangelicals, and there isn’t anything wrong with asking Jesus to protect people and give them strength…that I’m aware of anyway.

I thought it was a lovely prayer. (I guess I’m a little confused.)

253 spiderx  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:57:29am

re: #248 hazzyday

There is a hope and change part of the Iranian population waiting for Pres Obama to put his money where his speech is. Pres Obama could lose what little Iranian support he has by giving big world wide speeches and not acting.

Read Peggy Noonan’s article in the WSJ today (saturday 20th) . She nails it. Obama is doing the right thing. Lets not get so ideological that we are blinded by what is reality.

254 FrogMarch  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:45:42am

Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) and David Loebsack (D-Iowa) voted present.

255 ihateronpaul  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:55:57am

Irony alert: the same people going on about this dismissed bush’s voter fraud in 2000. Both are bad.

256 ihateronpaul  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:58:06am

re: #67 phillies2008

Ron Paul is a racist piece of shit.

He takes the “end multiculturalism” movement to its ugly extreme.

257 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 8:27:16am

re: #253 spiderx

Read Peggy Noonan’s article in the WSJ today (saturday 20th) . She nails it. Obama is doing the right thing. Lets not get so ideological that we are blinded by what is reality.

I would have to respectfully disagree. While I like Peggy Noonan, I’m oft at odds with her opinion, as I am now. As for ideology vs.reality, ideaology has been known to change “reality” on many occasions during human history, and this is at the heart of the Iranian protests. They know the reality, and through the force of their ideas, they are attempting to change their reality.

First, when European leaders, such as Germany and France and the U.S. Congress are out in front of the President in a foreign policy crisis such as this, denouncing the Iranian thugs and defending democracy, does this not signal a lack of leadership?

Secondly, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is already whining about foreign “interference”. In view of this, why won’t the President, at the very least, issue statements of condemnation of Iran’s thuggish tactics and verbally support the protesters who are risking their lives? After all, since we’re already being blamed for meddling, the President should at least state the traditional American position in favor of democracy. Is he trying to position himself to “deal” with Khamenei and Ahmadinejad, once the uprising has been quelled?

If that is the case, it would represent an unspeakable level of cynicism and wanton disregard for the lives of the Iranian people who simply want their freedom.

Alas, it’s already too late; the die has been cast. Waiting to see “if Iranian authorities carry out their latest threat of a more sweeping crackdown”, in the words of the White House, to “reconsider its carefully calibrated tone” is unacceptable and vacuous. The “Bully Pulpit” from which presidents once spoke in support of the oppressed, from which presidents once spoke in favor of the American values of liberty and democracy, stands vacant at a pivotal time in history.

President Obama’s silence is deafening, and those Iranians who may well die in their struggle for “Hope and Change” deserved more from the Leader of the Free World. They deserved, at least, his moral support, and all they received was equivocation.

258 MPH  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:39am

Don’t forget CAIR apologist, Keith Ellison, who abstained. Is there a clearer example showing what side Uncle Ron ends up supporting by default?

259 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:16:57pm

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