Violence in Tehran, Suicide Bomber at Ayatollah’s Tomb

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Iranian protesters are being attacked by riot police in Tehran today, as the mullahs’ violent crackdown on dissent continues: Riot police clash with protesters in Tehran

Police used tear gas, water cannons and batons Saturday to disperse thousands of protesters rallying in the central part of Iran’s capital to demand a new presidential election, witnesses said.

They said about 100 people were hurt after riot police charged the crowd of nearly 3,000 in Tehran’s Revolution Square and began beating demonstrators. Amateur video taken in the area showed a fiery barricade that protesters put up to block police.

There are also reports that opposition supporters set fire to a building used by backers of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Canadian freelance journalist George McLeod, one of the few foreign reporters remaining in the country, told CBC News he saw fires burning in the streets and heard small explosions. “Tehran is quickly becoming very violent. There are protests all over the city,” he said. “I saw three people being carried into ambulances. One had a head wound, the other seemed semi-unconscious. I don’t know whether they were protesters, security forces or bystanders.”

And we also have a strange report of a suicide bomber at the Ayatollah Khomeini’s tomb:

Elsewhere in the Iranian capital on Saturday, there were reports that a suicide bomber blew himself up at the mausoleum of the father of Iran’s revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

State media in Iran said two people were wounded in the incident in the northern wing of the shrine.

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980 comments
1 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:09:47am

Have a great day all!

2 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:11:06am

Good morning Charles - as you know we've been discussing this on the DT - and the dearth of reliable information is infuriating!

3 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:11:22am

I remember when they tried to bury that evil bastard. Dumped his body out of the coffin. Huge riot of mourners.

4 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:11:35am

In Iran, you win or you die

Everything is on the line in Iran, at present -- not only the future of the Iranian regime, but also of the Middle East, and by extension, the most tangible western interests.

Consider: if the Iranian regime were to fall, by far the largest organized threat to peace in the region would be removed. This includes not only a fairly proximate nuclear threat to Israel (for all we know North Korea's second nuclear test was actually Iran's first), but sponsorship of the most efficient part of the world's Islamist terror apparatus.

Hezbollah and Hamas are both, today, for all practical purposes, Iranian proxies. Through them, and through other channels, the regime of the ayatollahs makes money, materiel, and expertise available to terror cells as far away as Argentina, Sweden, the Philippines.

5 pegcity  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:11:58am

God help us when the Mullah's get the bomb

6 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:12:09am

From Winston's Tweet:

"@mkhammer "Probably CS tear gas crystals mixed in water which is why washing it off only makes it worse" #iranelection
2 minutes ago from web in reply to mkhammer"

7 pegcity  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:12:39am

re: #3 pingjockey

I remember when they tried to bury that evil bastard. Dumped his body out of the coffin. Huge riot of mourners.

they tore him to shreads

8 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:12:43am
And we also have a strange report of a suicide bomber at the Ayatollah Khomeini’s tomb:


My guess is that this is similar to stuff we've seen in Iraq over the years: They bomb mosques and shrines to stir up religious/ethnic tensions. There have been a lot of rumors about the government staging fake terror attacks to get the country to rally around them.

9 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:12:54am

From tehranbureau:
'from trusted FB source: Mousavi is reported to be speaking to protesters on Jeyhoon street. He said a few minutes ago:'
'I am prepared for martyrdom, Shame on you and your tricks the coup government. end quote'

From madyar:
'People are gathering at Tajrish SQ, Shouting: "Death To Dictatror" and "I will Kill Who Killed My Sister and Brother!" #IranElection'
'Continuous Gunfires hearing near Imam Khomeini Hospital Near to Azadi St. #IranElection'

10 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:12:57am

re: #5 pegcity

God help us when the Mullah's get the bomb

Ozero yawns.

11 redc1c4  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:13:21am

$5 there either was no bomb, or the regime set it themselves...

/sucker bet

12 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:13:31am

re: #6 realwest

Thanks. That probably explains the rumors we've been seeing.

13 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:13:49am

OT
Damn, next door in Iraq, a truck bomb has killed 50 people in the north, and P.M. Nouri Al Maliki has said Americans leaving by July 1 is a great thing. (per Fox News)

(Betcha protesting Iranians might like some American troops taking Tehran right now...if only Obama and democrats cared about freedom)

14 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:13:50am

Blowing up The Alatollah's tomb? This is the work of someone who seriously has destabilization as an agenda.
Why would any sane protester give the authorities excuse to crack down on any and all opposition: they are threatening the Iranian Revolution!

15 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:14:00am

'Reports: Clashes in Ahvaz, South of Iran.'
(Tehranbureau)

16 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:14:04am

re: #7 pegcity

they tore him to shreads

Cool souvenir for the mantel.

17 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:14:07am

re: #10 VegasRick
The Israelis' will do something about it. National survival is at stake.

18 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:14:31am

re: #5 pegcity

God help us when the Mullah's get the bomb

* * * *
You realize mullahs have been killing Americans with IEDs right next door in Iraq.

19 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:14:50am

re: #10 VegasRick

Ozero yawns.

He can talk 'em out of it, he is The One.

20 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:15:08am

Reports on Twitter of lots of European embassies volunteering medical aid to protesters.

21 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:15:10am

re: #17 pingjockey

The Israelis' will do something about it. National survival is at stake.

Agreed and thank God!

22 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:15:34am

report of a suicide bomber at the Ayatollah Khomeini’s tomb

The ultimate irony!

23 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:15:53am

re: #5 pegcity

God help us when the Mullah's get the bomb

re: #18 alegrias

* * * *
You realize mullahs have been killing Americans with IEDs right next door in Iraq.

A state of war has existed between Iran and the US since Nov. 4, 1979.
Only one side has been acting like it.

24 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:16:16am

re: #14 ralphieboy

Blowing up The Alatollah's tomb? This is the work of someone who seriously has destabilization as an agenda.
Why would any sane protester give the authorities excuse to crack down on any and all opposition: they are threatening the Iranian Revolution!

We've been talking about this on the DT below.
There were reports that this was filmed by the Iranian state TV - and that the cameras had been there before the explosion happened.

The general opinion by Iranian dissidents - and here on LGF - is that this was something rigged up by the Ahmadinejad government - to inflame his follwoers and the security forces - not by the dissidents!

25 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:16:42am

re: #23 jcm

A state of war has existed between Iran and the US since Nov. 4, 1979.
Only one side has been acting like it.

Your avatar was the last to take them on.

26 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:16:46am

re: #24 yma o hyd

We've been talking about this on the DT below.
There were reports that this was filmed by the Iranian state TV - and that the cameras had been there before the explosion happened.

The general opinion by Iranian dissidents - and here on LGF - is that this was something rigged up by the Ahmadinejad government - to inflame his follwoers and the security forces - not by the dissidents!

DING!

27 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:16:51am

re: #13 alegrias Don't know how the protestors or revolutionaries would react to any western nation's military intervention, but I wouldn't mind seeing American forces being withdrawn (especially Airmobile brigades) THROUGH Iran!

28 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:17:23am

re: #16 jcm

Cool souvenir for the mantel.

* * * *
Relics of saints were popular in Medieval Christian times as well. Entire towns built up around relics of such people and pilgrimmages were the tourism trade of the day.

29 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:17:48am

The turmoil in Iran has far reaching nuclear implications as from JCM's post. The potential is the possibly nuclear conflict or terrorism can be averted with a democratic overthrow of the Iranian regime.

But that's exactly what Obama and most on the left want to stay out of it. If freedom, democratic principle, and human rights are on the line, but you have to risk war or conflict to support those principles or ideals, they'd rather find a way out of it.

30 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:18:41am

This twitter has been recommended by tehranbureau just now - its Lara Setrakian from ABC News.

31 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:18:43am

re: #23 jcm

A state of war has existed between Iran and the US since Nov. 4, 1979.
Only one side has been acting like it.

* * * *
Democrats deny Jimmy Carter started this 30 years war to this day.
Democrats deny dying protesters have any beef with mullahcracy!

32 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:19:01am

Video of large peaceful street rally with helicopter overhead at :10. Purportedly from today.

Youtube Video

Looks like recon/traffic type helo, no buckets or apparent weapons.

33 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:19:36am

re: #14 ralphieboy
ralphieboy - but wouldn't it do the Regime some good to cast the "dissidents" in such a bad light?
There were tweeter reports of Iranian TV stations setting up at the location BEFORE the suicide bomber did his/her thing.
And, of course, being a suicide bomber makes it impossible to identify him/her with either side.

34 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:19:36am

'Reports: Protesters at 7Tir pushed back Militia and gathering at the SQ.'
(Tehranbureau)

35 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:19:42am

re: #15 yma o hyd

'Reports: Clashes in Ahvaz, South of Iran.'
(Tehranbureau)

Across the border from Basra.

36 Lincolntf  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:20:01am

I was happy to see a tweet that the EU has decided to open their embassies. Ppl immediately starting posting the Embassy addresses. I didn't verify, but it'd be nice if true.

37 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:20:01am

re: #3 pingjockey

I remember when they tried to bury that evil bastard. Dumped his body out of the coffin. Huge riot of mourners.

That was one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen. They were tossing him about like it was a rock concert.

38 Lincolntf  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:20:35am

European embassies reported open doors for injured; take them there. EU has "seen" enough! #iranelection (via @tehranbureau)

39 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:20:35am

re: #18 alegrias
YEP and we've captured, alive, some of Iran's Qods "Special Forces" in Iraq as well.

40 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:20:51am

re: #37 MacDuff

I'd have to agree. It was madness.

41 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:20:52am

Video, link tweeted by madyar:

Youtube Video
42 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:21:23am

On helicopters, FWIW:

kapanak Helicopters did not spray boiling water. It was a type of ACID, similar to what Mojahedeen used in '78-'82. #IranElection
less than 10 seconds ago from web

43 kynna  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:21:43am

Prayers continue for the protestors and those who refuse to do the govt's dirty work.

I have to agree that the tomb explosion serves no purpose for the protestors. And since the cameras seem to have been there previous to the explosion ... well, we know how that works.

44 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:22:11am

re: #27 realwest

Don't know how the protestors or revolutionaries would react to any western nation's military intervention, but I wouldn't mind seeing American forces being withdrawn (especially Airmobile brigades) THROUGH Iran!

* * * **
Bwahaha

"Retreating" US forces COULD leave Iraq through Iran.

As we go marching through Georgia.
Hurrah, Hurrah, here comes the jubilee
Hurrah, hurrah, something something to set men free.
(sing it, freedom fighters)

What's not to like? Would be awesome & fitting if Iraqis shared the liberating fever with their oppressed neighbors and fellow majority Shiites.

45 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:22:42am

re: #41 yma o hyd
I hear allah ackbar and gunshots.

46 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:23:44am

I was trying to read to the end of the other thread, but it doesn't appear that's possible.

My cousin posted the following link to a facebook site (you'll have to be a member, sorry) about violence against the Baha'i in Iran. Today is the 26th anniversary of the hanging of 10 young women for teaching religion classes to Baha'i youth.

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

47 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:23:48am

re: #44 alegrias

What.... no sarc tag?

48 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:23:53am

Another good quote from Mousavi:
'Mousavi: We've learned from our fathers that the blood of the innocent shall fall upon the guilty #iranelection @iranbaan'
( From winston)

49 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:24:01am

re: #42 Dar ul Harb
Yup, see my #6 above, a tweeter report from Winston.

50 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:24:09am

re: #43 kynna

Prayers continue for the protestors and those who refuse to do the govt's dirty work.

I have to agree that the tomb explosion serves no purpose for the protestors. And since the cameras seem to have been there previous to the explosion ... well, we know how that works.


If the protest is mostly anti-system as opposed to pro Mousavi, it DOES serve a purpose.
It was Komeini that brought this current "system" to the Iranians

51 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:24:39am

re: #42 Dar ul Harb

On helicopters, FWIW:

Use of chemical weapons (if confirmed).

Worldwide and UN condemnation in........

*crickets*

52 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:25:19am

re: #45 pingjockey

I hear allah ackbar and gunshots.

Yes - gunshots from the security forces - and the dissidents have, since last night, all been shouting 'allah akbar'. Seems they are throwing religion abck in the face of the Mullahs!

53 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:25:21am

re: #51 jcm

Use of chemical weapons (if confirmed).

Worldwide and UN condemnation in........

*crickets*

Or alternatively some sort of capsaicin solution.

54 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:25:49am

re: #43 kynna

re: #50 sattv4u2

If the protest is mostly anti-system as opposed to pro Mousavi, it DOES serve a purpose.
It was Komeini that brought this current "system" to the Iranians

AND ,,, not every Iranian muslim belongs to the sect that Komeini practiced

55 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:25:53am

re: #51 jcm

Use of chemical weapons (if confirmed).

Worldwide and UN condemnation in........

*crickets*

Same, same condemnation from the Leader of the Free World.

56 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:26:09am

FNC is getting video from somewhere!

57 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:26:20am

re: #47 BigPapa

What.... no sarc tag?

* * * *
I'm pissed and disappointed Iraq isn't SHOUTING support for freedom fighting protesters next door.

Iraq knows what 35 years of terrorist Saddam was like. Iraqis could be VOCAL, if not willing to send arms & Shiites to help young people next door.

58 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:26:28am

re: #53 Dar ul Harb

Or alternatively some sort of capsaicin solution.

If it is acid there will be pictures soon enough.

59 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:26:42am

re: #51 jcm

Use of chemical weapons (if confirmed).

Worldwide and UN condemnation in........

*crickets*

Not so. LOUD protests agianst the US chemical company that made the acid!

and no ,, NO //// tag

60 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:02am

Tehranbureau tweets:
'the chanting/slogans directly aimed at the supreme leader'
'some govt forces in this area have retreated as a result of people's resistance. end quote'
(my emphasis)

61 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:03am

TehranBureau:
some govt forces in this area have retreated as a result of people's resistance. end quote

And an interesting video, might just be showing this:

Youtube Video
62 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:08am

erinaz #iranelection: British, Slovenian, Dutch, Irish, Australian embassies are now accepting the injured #gr88 #tehran
less than 10 seconds ago from web

We should get more reliable reports on the nature of the injuries from embassy staff.

63 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:16am

FNC showing protesters in Georgetown.

64 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:16am

re: #56 pingjockey

Probably from twitter links to youtube videos.

65 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:40am

re: #51 jcm

I'm sure that they are already readying a "strongly worded statement" for immediate deployment, should it be necessary.

66 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:53am

re: #57 alegrias

* * * *
I'm pissed and disappointed Iraq isn't SHOUTING support for freedom fighting protesters next door.

Iraq knows what 35 years of terrorist Saddam was like. Iraqis could be VOCAL, if not willing to send arms & Shiites to help young people next door.


There still is no love lost between the 2.

67 kynna  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:27:55am

re: #50 sattv4u2

If the protest is mostly anti-system as opposed to pro Mousavi, it DOES serve a purpose.
It was Komeini that brought this current "system" to the Iranians

True. But it's not the way they've been behaving so far. The protestors, to this point, have rioted - yes -, have clogged the streets - yes -, suicide bombings - No. Could be a splinter group or lone wacko, but there does seem to be a consensus on behavior, IMO, with the protestors attempting to take the higher road. JMO, of course.

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:28:00am

I was trying to find a good link to "Right here, right now," (Jesus Jones) but I couldn't. It's how I feel right now.

69 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:28:12am

Aww - gotta feed them dogs now, they are making their displeasure known in no uncertain terms!

BBIAB!

70 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:28:49am

re: #67 kynna

True. But it's not the way they've been behaving so far. The protestors, to this point, have rioted - yes -, have clogged the streets - yes -, suicide bombings - No. Could be a splinter group or lone wacko, but there does seem to be a consensus on behavior, IMO, with the protestors attempting to take the higher road. JMO, of course.

It only takes one fanatic to go over the edge

71 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:28:50am

re: #56 pingjockey

FNC is getting video from somewhere!

* * *
those are solidarity protests in Washington, DC and other cities.

(I'm old enough to remember expatriate Iranian students protesting the SHAH of Iran in 1978 when Dhimmi Carter weakly let the mullahs take over.)

Poor silly students thought the Shah was the WORST leader Iran could have. They could not have imagined in their worst nightmare, what the mullahcracy Supreme Leaders would do to them & to Iranian women.

72 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:29:15am

re: #57 alegrias

Well, do most Iraqi's know how many of the bombings of the last 3-4 years were supported or funded by Iran? That might have something to do with it.

As much as many may be embittered by Saddam and hold him responsible for the 8 year war, I wonder if there still isn't some negative feelings between the common Iraqi and Iran, it's government or it's citizens. Thinking out loud.

73 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:29:19am

Normally I'm not in the habit of making suggestions to Democrats (apart from "drop dead" and "go to Hell"), but I think I will today.

If you're going to point a finger at a bad guy and accuse him of doing bad things it really, really, really helps if you don't have the blood of innocents on your own hands.

According to Michael Ledeen, the supreme witch doctor of the theocratic stockyard of Iran has made this very point:

Even inside the U.S., one is amazed, during the time of the administration of these very Democrats, the Democratic Party in America, the time of the presidency of the husband of this so-called “lady” who expresses her opinions, 80, 80 something people who were a part of the Davudi sect, were burnt alive; there’s no room for denying this. These “excellencies” did this deed; it was these very Democrats…the Davudi sect which they themselves call BRANCH DAVIDIANS. For some unknown reason, these people incurred the wrath of American and inside a house…they went over there and besieged the place and whatever they did, they didn’t come out and so they ended up setting the house on fire and 80 something men, women and children burned alive! You think you know something about human rights?!


We have to remember that authority is based on knowledge. Moral authority is founded on the knowledge of moral law, something that Democrats have daily demonstrated their ignorance of.

What are your questions on this block of instruction?
_

74 rw in san diego  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:29:50am

re: #39 realwest

YEP and we've captured, alive, some of Iran's Qods "Special Forces" in Iraq as well.

Hi, realwest! I hope our troops read them their Miranda rights.

/

75 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:29:57am

re: #71 alegrias
Nope. The Shah was a ruthless SoB, so they replaced one ruthless bastard with another.

76 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:30:42am

TehranBureau:

source: many people in iran believe the alleged/reported explosion at imam khomeini shrine was to distract attention from the demonstraters

Similar to earlier reports.

77 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:31:13am

Islamic regime seen to be driving Iranians to Christ

The pastor of the Iranian Christian Church of Colorado says Iran’s hardline Islamic regime has caused many Iranians to turn their backs on Islam and become Christians.

The Rev. Ashton Stewart, who grew up in Iran, says God also has been converting Iranians through miraculous healings and visions of Jesus Christ.

/*snap*

78 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:31:31am

re: #66 sattv4u2

There still is no love lost between the 2.

* * * *
There's plenty of Shiite tourism love between the two countries.

Newly freed Shiites should have some feeling of obligation to free their fellow Shiia, in my book.

79 kynna  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:31:36am

re: #70 sattv4u2

It only takes one fanatic to go over the edge

What about the allegation that cameras were there prior? Is that an ongoing thing -- cameras at the tomb? Not being facetious, I could see them having cameras there all the time.

But it's not unheard of for thugs in the ME to be creative on behalf of their enemies. That's the main reason it rings untrue to me.

80 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:31:41am

just imagine how brave these people are to persist in the face of what might look like nothing but death and defeat. it is truly amazing and what the tyrants fear most, a pure and deep desire for freedom from the people they have oppressed too long.

81 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:31:43am

re: #73 The Other Les

Normally I'm not in the habit of making suggestions to Democrats (apart from "drop dead" and "go to Hell"), but I think I will today.

If you're going to point a finger at a bad guy and accuse him of doing bad things it really, really, really helps if you don't have the blood of innocents on your own hands.

According to Michael Ledeen, the supreme witch doctor of the theocratic stockyard of Iran has made this very point:


We have to remember that authority is based on knowledge. Moral authority is founded on the knowledge of moral law, something that Democrats have daily demonstrated their ignorance of.

What are your questions on this block of instruction?
_

It's a moral equivalence argument.

It's never too late to start doing the right thing.

82 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:32:30am

re: #77 Killian Bundy

Islamic regime seen to be driving Iranians to Christ

/*snap*

The response to shortwave gospel broadcasts has been significant.

83 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:32:57am

Charles, I mean this with all sincerity. Thank you for giving this air time.

Despite all of the heat over the last year, you are relevant, and providing an outlet for history as it seems to be unfolding right in front of our eyes.

Seriously, thank you. I am positive the folks putting their lives on the line in Tehran right now are grateful.

84 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:33:20am

re: #78 alegrias

* * * *
There's plenty of Shiite tourism love between the two countries.

Newly freed Shiites should have some feeling of obligation to free their fellow Shiia, in my book.

But the Iraqis didn't see from the Iranians what you're asking of them after Saddam was disposed. What the Iraqis DID (and continue) to see is destabilizing forces from Iran coming into Iraq without protests from their Iranian "brothers"

85 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:33:32am

re: #73 The Other Les

Where are you going with this?

86 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:33:47am

link to a persian video feed

Could be graphic

87 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:33:59am

re: #72 BigPapa

Well, do most Iraqi's know how many of the bombings of the last 3-4 years were supported or funded by Iran? That might have something to do with it.

As much as many may be embittered by Saddam and hold him responsible for the 8 year war, I wonder if there still isn't some negative feelings between the common Iraqi and Iran, it's government or it's citizens. Thinking out loud.

* * * *
Iraqis now have free press, and lots of news media they didn't have during Saddam's terrorist regime.

Iraqis know who is trying to destabilize them, and who is sending IEDs that murder Iraqis.

Iraqis know a terrorist exporting regime when it's right next door!

88 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:34:15am

re: #74 rw in san diego
Hey rw! I hope we didn't - hope we treated them as POW's cause that's exactly what they were. As jcm and I (and others) have commented out here, a great case can be made for saying a state of war has existed between the U.S. and Iran since 1979 when Iranians stormed our embassy and held 54 of our civilian employee's hostage for 444 days. We still owe 'em for that.

89 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:35:02am

re: #79 kynna

What about the allegation that cameras were there prior? Is that an ongoing thing -- cameras at the tomb? Not being facetious, I could see them having cameras there all the time.

But it's not unheard of for thugs in the ME to be creative on behalf of their enemies. That's the main reason it rings untrue to me.

and conversly, knowing how fanatic a individual mulsim can be, adding to that the climate there right now, it's not far fetched for ONE to want to go out in a blaze of glory for the cause

90 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:35:06am

Fresh off #iranelection

oktano RT @jennlynnjones Mousavi - confirmed - IF I AM ARRESTED THE NATION IS TO STRIKE INDEFINITELY - #Iranelection RT RT RT
91 shanec99  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:35:32am

re: #3 pingjockey

I remember when they tried to bury that evil bastard. Dumped his body out of the coffin. Huge riot of mourners.


Burying him will ensure that the ground under which he lays will never bear any edible fruit into perpetuity.

92 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:35:40am

More video: Good sized crowd and we get to see some of those helicopters we keep hearing about......

Youtube Video


My guess is that the helicopters aren't dropping the tear gas but maybe they stir up the air enough that they blow teargas around that's already in the air.

93 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:35:55am

re: #86 reine.de.tout

Outstanding link, thanks!

94 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:36:14am

re: #80 nyc redneck

just imagine how brave these people are to persist in the face of what might look like nothing but death and defeat. it is truly amazing and what the tyrants fear most, a pure and deep desire for freedom from the people they have oppressed too long.

* * * **
Iran's protesters are like the troops landing at D-Day and seeing nothing but sheer cliffs with armed Nazis on top.

Where is their Eisenhower saying "Godspeed"?

Instead there's President Obama waffling & shuffling on the sidelines. To be or not to be, uhhhhhhh.

95 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:36:43am
kiankaveh Mousavi among protesters: "If they arrested me, go on a strike stop going to work" #iranelection
less than 10 seconds ago from web

Second report of Mousavi call for general strike

96 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:36:59am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

More video: Good sized crowd and we get to see some of those helicopters we keep hearing about......

Youtube Video


My guess is that the helicopters aren't dropping the tear gas but maybe they stir up the air enough that they blow teargas around that's already in the air.

that would tend to disperse it, making it LESS effective rather than more

97 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:37:06am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

More video: Good sized crowd and we get to see some of those helicopters we keep hearing about......


[Video]

My guess is that the helicopters aren't dropping the tear gas but maybe they stir up the air enough that they blow teargas around that's already in the air.

Huge crowd, it looked like.

98 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:37:21am

re: #81 jcm

It's a moral equivalence argument.


Scum is scum.

It's never too late to start doing the right thing.


Of course not.

If I may quote from my rant of the day:

In some places an election is nothing more than a voodoo ritual that is used to create the appearance of moral legitimacy for the regime in power. As in the cases of the Soviet Union, Baathist Iraq, and the City of Chicago.

We have to remember that Islam is a scam. Thus it should come to no surprise to us that the rulers of Iran, who hold themselves above accountability, would resort to fraud in order to keep their stooges in their positions in the apparatus of the state.

A state without a functioning mechanism of accountability, and a means of peacefully removing those who are unfit to govern, will eventually fall into corruption and a state of tyranny. (In the case of Iran that point is moot. It was a corrupt and tyrannical state from day one.)

It is unlikely that any real reform will occur in Iran. The scam religion of Islam was created in part to legitimize the tyranny of the false prophet Mohammad. Any legal mechanism that holds the apparatus of the state accountable to the people would be deemed a man made law, and thus would be null and void according to the doctrine of Islam. And since Islam denies all of the rights of man any attempt to defend those rights is an offense against the false god Allah.

In order for Iranians to truly obtain freedom they must abandon Islam altogether.

What are your questions on this block of instruction?

99 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:37:43am

re: #87 alegrias

* * * *
Iraqis now have free press, and lots of news media they didn't have during Saddam's terrorist regime.

Iraqis know who is trying to destabilize them, and who is sending IEDs that murder Iraqis.

Iraqis know a terrorist exporting regime when it's right next door!

I hope you are right. The free press in Iraq is still in it's formulative years and very tenuous: it can be gone in an instant if we leave and evil takes over. But lets hope it turns into and institution as noble and infallible as the US MSM.

(might be a tad of sarc in post above)

100 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:38:16am

I dont know if Charles has posted this, about the BNP

Youtube Video
101 quickjustice  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:38:26am

Events in Iran have totally overtaken the Obama Administration, and swamped its preferred policy of engagement with the tyrants.

Obama is behaving like a timid old man in the skin of a young man, afraid to say or do anything that might offend anyone. This Administration seems geriatric already, with its policy throwbacks to the 1930s. This is my grandfather's Democratic Party without the muscular foreign policy that resisted dictators and tyrants.

I miss Harry Truman a lot.

102 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:38:32am

re: #85 BigPapa

Where are you going with this?

To Hell Chicago, apparently...

103 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:39:02am

re: #79 kynna

What about the allegation that cameras were there prior? Is that an ongoing thing -- cameras at the tomb? Not being facetious, I could see them having cameras there all the time.

But it's not unheard of for thugs in the ME to be creative on behalf of their enemies. That's the main reason it rings untrue to me.

* * *
Hello, it's a POLICE STATE. Mosques are their command center in a THEOCRACY. Cameras & spying everywhere.

Mullahs tape their sermons for broad distribution by internet.
Recall that Ayatollah Khomeini's cassettes of "firey" Friday sermons recorded in Paris, France, helped topple the Shah in far off Iran in 1979.

104 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:39:07am

reine, I feel like we have rooster cam back. Thanks.

(Except I'm fully aware it could get nasty.)

105 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:39:14am

Someone posted this upthread. I'll post it again.

Very interesting tool.

[Link: tweetgrid.com...]

106 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:39:19am

A written report from tweeter TehranBureau

107 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:39:23am

re: #86 reine.de.tout
Holy crap - reine those are videos of MUCH larger demonstrations than we've seen from the tweeters!
Must be tens if not hundreds of thousands of people out there!

108 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:39:52am

re: #94 alegrias

* * * **
Iran's protesters are like the troops landing at D-Day and seeing nothing but sheer cliffs with armed Nazis on top.

Where is their Eisenhower saying "Godspeed"?

Instead there's President Obama waffling & shuffling on the sidelines. To be or not to be, uhhhhhhh.

As I've said, the Donks are ignorant of ethics.

109 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:40:09am

re: #86 reine.de.tout

Wow !

110 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:40:20am

re: #101 quickjustice

Events in Iran have totally overtaken the Obama Administration, and swamped its preferred policy of engagement with the tyrants.

/not really, he just ignores it

111 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:40:24am

re: #101 quickjustice

I just want to say quick, I have enjoyed your posts very much. You have joined my mental list of folks I always read.

112 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:40:46am

re: #68 EmmmieG

I was trying to find a good link to "Right here, right now," (Jesus Jones) but I couldn't. It's how I feel right now.


Does this work for you?

Youtube Video
113 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:41:09am

re: #84 sattv4u2

But the Iraqis didn't see from the Iranians what you're asking of them after Saddam was disposed. What the Iraqis DID (and continue) to see is destabilizing forces from Iran coming into Iraq without protests from their Iranian "brothers"

* * * *
Hello, Iran is a POLICE STATE. Iran's terrorist leadership hardly welcomed a free democracy next door.

Like Pres. Obama, Iran's mullahs were comfy dealing with the terrorist Saddam regime they knew.

Iran's freedom desiring people could hardly speak up in a POLICE STATE until recently.

114 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:41:32am

re: #107 realwest

Holy crap - reine those are videos of MUCH larger demonstrations than we've seen from the tweeters!
Must be tens if not hundreds of thousands of people out there!

This is the same video I posted below at #32

115 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:41:57am

re: #75 pingjockey

Nope. The Shah was a ruthless SoB, so they replaced one ruthless bastard with another.

Black Friday anybody?

116 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:42:05am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

More video: Good sized crowd and we get to see some of those helicopters we keep hearing about......

Youtube Video


My guess is that the helicopters aren't dropping the tear gas but maybe they stir up the air enough that they blow teargas around that's already in the air.

That helicopter (at 0.07 seconds) sure looks like a Huey.

117 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:43:28am

re: #116 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Looks like one. Wonder if they bought some used ones?

118 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:43:44am

re: #98 The Other Les

Don't forget the Persian element.

119 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:44:03am

re: #114 Dar ul Harb

This is the same video I posted below at #32

video at my 86 is a feed of videos - not live, I don't think, but a collection of several.

120 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:44:05am

Krauthammer on FNC now.

121 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:44:12am

re: #116 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That helicopter (at 0.07 seconds) sure looks like a Huey.

Huey and high. Observing.

122 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:44:23am

re: #113 alegrias

* * * *
Hello, Iran is a POLICE STATE. Iran's terrorist leadership hardly welcomed a free democracy next door.

Like Pres. Obama, Iran's mullahs were comfy dealing with the terrorist Saddam regime they knew.

Iran's freedom desiring people could hardly speak up in a POLICE STATE until recently.


Hello, I was replying to YOUR post as to why the Iraqis aren;'t in the streets in solidarity if the Iranians. I simply told you FACTUALLY that the Iranians didn;t take to the streets in support of the Iraqis post Saddam. I simply told you FACTUALLY that there is still no love lost betewwn the two countries. I simply told you FACTUALLY that the Iraqi's still are dealing with Iranians who were sent into Iraq to disrupt their march towards democracy

123 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:45:04am

re: #113 alegrias

re: #122 sattv4u2

AND ,,,,,, top that ALL off that there is no love lost bewteen "Arabs" and "Persians"

FACT

124 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:45:46am

re: #86 reine.de.tout

Thanks. Very good link.

125 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:46:05am

I am nowhere by a television right now.

Can anyone say if any of the msm is showing this in their news cycle?

Rotation that is.

126 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:46:10am

re: #117 pingjockey

Looks like one. Wonder if they bought some used ones?

From the Shah's regime.

127 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:46:11am

Summarizing tweet reports from past hour or so:

Planned rally site blocked off by government thugs earlier in the day, Iran protesters held mass street rallies anyway, Mousavi apparently gave speech calling for general strike. Foeign embassies treating injured from regime crowd control efforts, which may have included tear gas or other crowd control agents dropped from helicopters. Some gunshot wounded reported.

128 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:46:23am

re: #118 jcm

Don't forget the Persian element.

I remember reading somewhere about some ayatollah bitching about the numbers of Iranians converting to Christianity. Something like 50 a day.

129 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:46:34am

re: #114 Dar ul Harb
Are you sure Dar? I mean there sure seems to be more "protestors" in your video than in reine's but it's hard to say.
And I agree with you that I'm not so sure it's from today - based on what footage we've seen from mobilecamera/vids on Tweeter.
But it's a mish mash trying to get reliable information out of Iran right now!
Great video you put up though!

130 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:46:45am

re: #125 formercorpsman
FNC has been showing this for the last 20 minutes. Just turned it on.

131 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:46:51am

re: #5 pegcity

God help us when the Mullah's get the bomb

God help us prevent the mullahs from getting the bomb.

132 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:47:49am

re: #105 formercorpsman

Someone posted this upthread. I'll post it again.

Very interesting tool.

[Link: tweetgrid.com...]

Thanks for that! Amazing real-time news.

133 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:47:49am

re: #119 reine.de.tout

video at my 86 is a feed of videos - not live, I don't think, but a collection of several.

O.K., I guess when I tuned in they were showing the one from #32.

134 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:47:51am

re: #128 The Other Les

I remember reading somewhere about some ayatollah bitching about the numbers of Iranians converting to Christianity. Something like 50 a day.

Oh, and the Zoroastrians are making a comeback too.

135 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:47:58am

re: #126 pre-Boomer Marine brat

From the Shah's regime.

And they're still air-worthy? Lots of spare parts in inventory, you think?

136 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:48:05am

I just wish for a pro-western end to this. But I sincerely doubt that there will be such.

137 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:48:27am

OT

Charles Krauthammer was on Fox saying Mousavi is ready to die for this revolution , Mousavi has denounced Ayatollah Khamenei, etc.

Basically, Mousavi has said "BRING IT ON" like Pres. Bush did to terrorists.

138 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:48:41am

re: #135 Gang of One

And they're still air-worthy? Lots of spare parts in inventory, you think?

Parts supplied by GE?

139 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:49:20am

re: #137 alegrias

OT

Charles Krauthammer was on Fox saying Mousavi is ready to die for this revolution , Mousavi has denounced Ayatollah Khamenei, etc.

Basically, Mousavi has said "BRING IT ON" like Pres. Bush did to terrorists.

The "tweets" have been indicating that Mousavi did indeed say that.
Just confirming - hard to know what's accurate.

140 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:49:22am

re: #138 Edgesitter

Parts supplied by GE?

Don't know ...

141 MarineGrunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:49:27am

re: #32 Dar ul Harb

Looks like recon/traffic type helo, no buckets or apparent weapons.

Looks like helicopter spraying some kind of liquid at :12

142 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:49:32am

re: #135 Gang of One
IIRC, everbody and their brother has Hueys. Kind of like AK47s. The damn things are everywhere.

143 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:49:34am

re: #119 reine.de.tout

Its absolutely riveting, the best video feed on the net. Thanks again.

144 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:49:43am

re: #137 alegrias

OT

Charles Krauthammer was on Fox saying Mousavi is ready to die for this revolution , Mousavi has denounced Ayatollah Khamenei, etc.

Basically, Mousavi has said "BRING IT ON" like Pres. Bush did to terrorists.

I miss President Bush. Guts.

145 itellu3times  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:50:13am

re: #141 MarineGrunt

Looks like helicopter spraying some kind of liquid at :12

Unholy water.

146 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:50:23am

TehranBureau:

mousavi has reportedly [unconfirmed] said that if he is arrested, people should go on strike and not to go work
147 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:50:33am

re: #137 alegrias Well what CK has said comports with what we've "heard" or seen from Tweeter reports and assuming it's true, that is that Mousavi said that, then this is no longer about a disputed election but instead a full blown revolution!

148 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:50:34am

re: #145 itellu3times

Heh

149 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:50:39am

re: #141 MarineGrunt

Looks like helicopter spraying some kind of liquid at :12

That was a lightpole as seen in a rapid pan left apparently. Check again.

150 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:50:54am

re: #139 reine.de.tout

This too....

Mousavi - confirmed - IF I AM ARRESTED THE NATION IS TO STRIKE INDEFINITELY - #Iranelection RT RT RT
151 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:51:19am

re: #139 reine.de.tout

The "tweets" have been indicating that Mousavi did indeed say that.
Just confirming - hard to know what's accurate.

* * * *
Fox News had Charles Krauthammer on moments ago repeating Mousavi's own talking points.

(My AT&T air card went down, darn those mullahs interfering with my connectivity here in Alexandria, VA)

152 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:51:24am

re: #116 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That helicopter (at 0.07 seconds) sure looks like a Huey.

Alomst all of the Iranian airforce is American made. Left over from the times prior to the revolution in 79.

153 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:51:31am

re: #137 alegrias

OT

Charles Krauthammer was on Fox saying Mousavi is ready to die for this revolution , Mousavi has denounced Ayatollah Khamenei, etc.

Basically, Mousavi has said "BRING IT ON" like Pres. Bush did to terrorists.

He's going to find life difficult without the support of the Iranian military.

/Hal

154 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:52:12am

Hopefully the foreign embassies that are taking in wounded can get some more light on what in hell is going on.

155 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:52:35am
Rotated RT @mousavi1388 I am prepared For martyrdom, go on strike if I am arrested #IranElection (WOW - No one would ever say this in Canada)
less than 10 seconds ago from web

Interesting commentary

156 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:52:36am

re: #128 The Other Les

I remember reading somewhere about some ayatollah bitching about the numbers of Iranians converting to Christianity. Something like 50 a day.

The mission my parents were with in Iran part of the outreach included shortware broadcasts. Those broadcasts never stopped. The response has been quite significant.

157 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:52:38am

TehranBureau:

there is an [unconfirmed] report that intel services may allow for sms/text service to be able to track those who are organizing protest

Not sure I like the sound of that.

158 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:53:21am

Lots of embassies seem to be accepting wounded.

159 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:53:57am

re: #94 alegrias

* * * **
Iran's protesters are like the troops landing at D-Day and seeing nothing but sheer cliffs with armed Nazis on top.

Where is their Eisenhower saying "Godspeed"?

Instead there's President Obama waffling & shuffling on the sidelines. To be or not to be, uhhhhhhh.

o at this point is an immaterial entity. he knows nothing of a human being's need for freedom. of a thirst for liberty, like the iranians are valiantly displaying.
they have forgotten o, they are marching for their very lives, surely hardened in their thoughts toward the weak coward , who as leader of the free world does not have the balls to speak a word to strengthen their righteous desperate cause.
i so hope they prevail.

160 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:53:59am

re: #154 pingjockey

Hopefully the foreign embassies that are taking in wounded can get some more light on what in hell is going on.

Wonder if these embassies won't have their ambassadors expelled and relations broken off.

161 itellu3times  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:54:04am

I'm still very skeptical about this whole thing, because I cannot see where it is going. Mousavi in office would make no difference to the US. For Iran's own domestic situation - from what I read, Achmadinejad is as much of a "reformer", against the corrupt mullahs, as Mousavi. Can the choice between these two weevils really power a revolution?

So it's developing some momentum, it still looks to me like a train to nowhere.

162 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:54:10am

Tehran Bureau:
Omid007 says "Rasht on fire."

163 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:54:15am

re: #147 realwest

Well what CK has said comports with what we've "heard" or seen from Tweeter reports and assuming it's true, that is that Mousavi said that, then this is no longer about a disputed election but instead a full blown revolution!

* * * *
Mousavi told Ayatollah Khamenei he's ready for martyrdom--"you say you want a revolution" well, here's the 2009 version: LEt's Roll.

(Meanwhile, Pres. Obama and his democrat Senate friends were busy enacting apologies for 16th century slavetrading in the US yesterday. And planning restitution payments for slavery)

164 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:54:22am

re: #152 justdanny

Alomst all of the Iranian airforce is American made. Left over from the times prior to the revolution in 79.

They have just about as many "Soviet" era SU's and MIG's also

165 SecondComing  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:54:40am

Following several tweeters. a sample of the latest:

madyar: People are gathering at Tajrish SQ, Shouting: "Death To Dictatror" and "I will Kill Who Killed My Sister and Brother!" #IranElection

persiankiwi: The nation has awoken TODAY - the Sea of Green is marching - #Iranelection

persiankiwi: confirmed - Riots in Tabriz, Mashad, Isfahan, Ahwaz - Gov using violence - #Iranelection

persiankiwi: Mousavi - confirmed - IF I AM ARRESTED THE NATION IS TO STRIKE INDEFINITELY - #Iranelection RT RT RT

ProtesterHelp: The water from helicopters most likely contains [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

persiankiwi: Tehran is burning with the blood of our Martyrs - The streets are full of dead - #Iranelection

persiankiwi: hospital source - Tehran hospitals report hundreds of casualtys - #Iranelection

persiankiwi: Mousavi - declares results of 10th Presidential Election null and void - #Iranelection RT RT RT

persiankiwi: Helicopters pouring acid on people from the sky - #Iranelection

persiankiwi: Unconfirmed - The Army will not follow orders to kill the people - #Iranelection

madyar: NOW / mousavi among people: I am ready for death #iranelection

persiankiwi: Mousavi - Confirmed - I have prepared for martyrdom - #Iranelection

166 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:55:28am

While the IRGC has apparently confounded the protesters' original plans, it hasn't prevented demonstrations from occuring, and is unable (or hasn't been willing) to shut them down (yet).

The crowds appear to be very large. Since the regime appears unwilling to machinegun people in the streets, it needs more manpower. (A lot more manpower?)

The regime can't let this state of affairs continue. What'll happen next?

167 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:55:39am

re: #116 pre-Boomer Marine brat

re: #117 pingjockey

Probably a Huey we sold to the Shah. Their AF is still flying a lot of old stuff. Huey parts are probably easy to come by on the world market.
And if we were watching the same clip, my first thought was that is sounded like a Huey.

168 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:56:19am

re: #135 Gang of One

And they're still air-worthy? Lots of spare parts in inventory, you think?

heh

They've probably been vacuuming the spare parts market all over the world

169 MarineGrunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:56:41am

re: #149 Dar ul Harb


That was a lightpole as seen in a rapid pan left apparently. Check again.

You're right, can be seen clearly at :09

170 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:56:50am

re: #154 pingjockey

Hopefully the foreign embassies that are taking in wounded can get some more light on what in hell is going on.

* * * *
Too bad foreign embassies aren't handing out weapons.

District of Columbia in the US is a gun free zone full of embassies, but there's plenty of guns for criminals.

Iranians need weapons badly.

Iraqi could step up right now & share some firepower with the people.

171 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:56:51am

re: #167 Son of the Black Dog
The local sheriffs dept bought 3. 2 for spares, one to fly. Cheap too.

172 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:56:53am

TehranBureau:

eye witness: I saw easily over a hundred Basij with batton between Mirdamad and Vanak and maybe another 50 around Vanak. end quote

If the crowds are in the thousands, is this very many basij?

173 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:57:28am

re: #167 Son of the Black Dog

re: #117 pingjockey

Probably a Huey we sold to the Shah. Their AF is still flying a lot of old stuff. Huey parts are probably easy to come by on the world market.
And if we were watching the same clip, my first thought was that is sounded like a Huey.

This chart [Link: www.globalsecurity.org...] says that most of Irans choppers are BELL 214C's

174 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:21am

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC: Young Woman Shot

I only made it 9 seconds in. Watch at your own risk.

175 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:24am

re: #167 Son of the Black Dog

re: #117 pingjockey

Probably a Huey we sold to the Shah. Their AF is still flying a lot of old stuff. Huey parts are probably easy to come by on the world market.
And if we were watching the same clip, my first thought was that is sounded like a Huey.

There was a glimpse of it, HU-1 for sure.

176 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:38am

Guys, this is another good site for what is going on:

I guess some different videos as well.

[Link: azarmehr.blogspot.com...]

177 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:39am

Repost:
Link to a persian feed, recorded videos, seem to be a collection, some may be graphic.

178 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:51am

re: #165 SecondComing

persiankiwi: Unconfirmed - The Army will not follow orders to kill the people - #Iranelection

/they're going to have to take a more active role to stop the bloodshed

179 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:55am

re: #161 itellu3times

I'm still very skeptical about this whole thing, because I cannot see where it is going. Mousavi in office would make no difference to the US. For Iran's own domestic situation - from what I read, Achmadinejad is as much of a "reformer", against the corrupt mullahs, as Mousavi. Can the choice between these two weevils really power a revolution?

So it's developing some momentum, it still looks to me like a train to nowhere.


It's not about the election any more. Mousavi isn't in control.

180 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:56am

Report of snipers, FWIW:

sean_griffin RT: 7:37 GMT IRAN: Two people hit Enghelab St. The shooters are well trained -- targeting people's feet. #iranelection (via @bdmaroon)
181 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:58:59am

1. If the Iranian people pull this off with Obama still sitting on the fence, paying not even lip service to their cause, would they have a right to ask "so, where were you when we needed moral support?"

2. If the tide seems to be turning in favor of the protesters, how long will it take for Obama to run to a microphone pledging his undying support for their fledgling democracy?

182 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:59:10am

re: #170 alegrias

* * * *
Too bad foreign embassies aren't handing out weapons.

District of Columbia in the US is a gun free zone full of embassies, but there's plenty of guns for criminals.

Iranians need weapons badly.

Iraqi could step up right now & share some firepower with the people.

Was looking at video from Reine's link -- TXTs flashing underneath ... one named WorldCitizen09 calling for Iranians to get guns. I thought people with a nick like WorldCitizen were usually anti-gun types.

183 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:59:13am

re: #136 Edgesitter

I just wish for a pro-western end to this. But I sincerely doubt that there will be such.

If Khameini goes down, Iran will be pro-western in ten years. Unless, of course, they hold our shameful green-light to the mullahs against us. For some reason. Kooky, I know.

184 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:59:31am

re: #173 sattv4u2

This chart [Link: www.globalsecurity.org...] says that most of Irans choppers are BELL 214C's

Same fuselage as an HU-1 upgraded engines and avionics.

185 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:59:37am

re: #154 pingjockey

Hopefully the foreign embassies that are taking in wounded can get some more light on what in hell is going on.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the foreign embassies may be assaulted and occupied by the forces of the regime. It's happened before.

A state of tyranny is only as durable as the loyalty and effectiveness of the goon squads.

Tyrants basically see ordinary people as livestock. And the doctrine of Islam is explicit on this point. Any person who refuses to obey the tyrant is in his eyes a diseased animal and must be destroyed. (See the recent rants of Janeane Garafalo) The regime will make every effort to destroy this movement. And there will be no limit to what they are willing to do in order to stay in power.

186 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:00:04am

If the report that the army has refused to fire on the protesters is true, the people have already won a major victory.

187 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:00:05am

re: #172 reine.de.tout

TehranBureau:

If the crowds are in the thousands, is this very many basij?

Not really but the protesters are unarmed. I did just watch a video of the capturing some batons and helmets from police but it's not much. They're still just throwing stones.

188 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:01:03am

Anyone know what the Iraqi and American armies are doing next door in Iraq?

Are we on stand by?

Is our children learning?

189 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:01:08am

re: #181 MacDuff

1. If the Iranian people pull this off with Obama still sitting on the fence, paying not even lip service to their cause, would they have a right to ask "so, where were you when we needed moral support?"

2. If the tide seems to be turning in favor of the protesters, how long will it take for Obama to run to a microphone pledging his undying support for their fledgling democracy?

Being the skilled orator he his, Obama will only have to say that if he came out backing the protesters it would have made it only worse for them due to the Iranian regimes distaste for US "meddling". Obama will claim by staying OUT of it actually "helped" the revolution!

190 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:01:10am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC: Young Woman Shot

I only made it 9 seconds in. Watch at your own risk.

Oh, man ...

191 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:01:32am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC: Young Woman Shot

I only made it 9 seconds in. Watch at your own risk.

awful.

192 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:01:32am

Anyone confirm this?

jos21 RT @oxfordgirl: Al jazeera asking why if no fraud in election, why would an innocent goverment crack down like this? #iranelection #Mousavi
less than 10 seconds ago from TweetDeck
193 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:02:04am

re: #192 Dar ul Harb

Anyone confirm this?

That looks like a "retweet", I saw it earlier.

194 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:02:17am

re: #161 itellu3times

I'm still very skeptical about this whole thing, because I cannot see where it is going. Mousavi in office would make no difference to the US. For Iran's own domestic situation - from what I read, Achmadinejad is as much of a "reformer", against the corrupt mullahs, as Mousavi. Can the choice between these two weevils really power a revolution?

So it's developing some momentum, it still looks to me like a train to nowhere.

as long as the train has this kind of momentum, anything can happen. it can't be worse than what they have.
the people won't go back if they gain any ground.
especially the young people who comprise most of the population of iran. they are for real reform that does not include mullah thugs and deranged s.o.b.s
like dinner jacket.

195 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:02:53am

re: #161 itellu3times

I'm still very skeptical about this whole thing, because I cannot see where it is going. Mousavi in office would make no difference to the US. For Iran's own domestic situation - from what I read, Achmadinejad is as much of a "reformer", against the corrupt mullahs, as Mousavi. Can the choice between these two weevils really power a revolution?

So it's developing some momentum, it still looks to me like a train to nowhere.

Its not about either leader now. Its about the willingness, finally, of the Iranian people to stand against the government. Willing to die at the hands of the government to make it representative of them.

Many of the chants are against the guardian council and islamic rule. How can that be bad or unimportant?

196 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:03:32am

re: #183 haakondahl

If Khameini goes down, Iran will be pro-western in ten years.

/a beautiful thing, solves 90% of the world's problems, all by itself

197 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:04:09am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Obama?

198 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:05:13am

re: #189 sattv4u2

Being the skilled orator he his, Obama will only have to say that if he came out backing the protesters it would have made it only worse for them due to the Iranian regimes distaste for US "meddling". Obama will claim by staying OUT of it actually "helped" the revolution!

And everyone, but the kool-aid drinkers will know he is full of shit.

199 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:05:13am

re: #197 BigPapa

?

200 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:05:20am

BBC Persian video of rioting, gunshots...

Link to Youtube

201 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:05:39am

Interesting article on the suicide attack, if it hasn't been posted yet:

The suicide bombing of the Khomeini shrine has all the signs of a false flag attack

An Al Jazeera analyst suggests that a Mujahedeen-e-Khalq bomber carried out the attack. That would be convenient because MEK has been constructed as a stand-in for the Bush administration in Iran since America invaded Iraq. Instead of shipping MEK, a group that’s on the American list of foreign terrorist organizations, off to Iran for trial, the Bush administration allowed the Iranian-origin but anti-Islamic Republic group to continue to stay in Iraq, where Saddam Hussein had long ago given the group safe haven.

So, If Iranian officials are suggesting that MEK was involved, it’s a useful rumor to spread because it’s their way of saying, “America and its proxies bombed Iran.”

Also worth pointing out that earlier in the week, the Iranian outlet I quote above reported that Iranian authorities had foiled a bomb plot on election day. The officials claimed the the group attempting the bombing had confessed to working for Israel.

[Link: trueslant.com...]

202 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:06:56am

It's clear some here don't see what's so bad about living in a terrorist run police state with mandatory religion and NUKES!

Neither does President Obama, but I expected smarter lizards to think different.

203 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:08:31am

OT
Charles Krauthammer is on Fox encouraging the middle class to go out & protest!

The radicalizing of Mousavi is what's important, that Iranians want the election annulled, they want freedom, this is a very radical statement.

Mousavi started out as a Gorbachev and now is a Yeltsin.

The Mousavi of a week ago is not the Mousavi of today.

204 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:08:39am

re: #198 jcm

And everyone, but the kool-aid drinkers will know he is full of shit.

do not underestimate
A) the numbers of thirsty people
and
B) The Power Of The "O". If summer/fall 2008 didn't convince you of that,,,, ,,,

205 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:08:47am

re: #185 The Other Les

Have you ever considered the possibility that the foreign embassies may be assaulted and occupied by the forces of the regime.

Yes, most reasonable people would.

Are you suggesting that embassies don't take in any wounded?

206 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:09:00am

re: #200 Dar ul Harb

Intersection blocked by burning overturned cars

207 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:09:10am

re: #197 BigPapa

re: #199 VegasRick

?

let me add ?

208 SecondComing  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:09:16am

Posted by Situation in Ira on Sat 20th Jun 10:07:

[Link: pastebay.com...]


^some interesting info

209 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:09:18am

re: #202 alegrias

Nonsense.

210 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:09:48am

re: #195 justdanny
Hey justdanny - if they do in fact overthrow the Mullocracy in Iran, that IMO makes it easier for Iran to one day become a democracy - but not right away if Mousavi wins out here.

211 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:10:15am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

I'm tearing up.

I'm a big physical man, and I am tearing up.

God bless that daughter of Iran.

Folks, it is graphic. If you can't watch it, understandable.

These people are dying for freedom as we speak.

They are dying for this right now.

212 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:10:24am

re: #202 alegrias

It's clear some here don't see what's so bad about living in a terrorist run police state with mandatory religion and NUKES!

Neither does President Obama, but I expected smarter lizards to think different.

Haha. Youre funny. You need to take down that all or nothing frame youre looking through. Then you'll see how wrong you are.

213 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:10:43am

re: #199 VegasRick

As in.... Where's Obama? What Would Obama Do?

WWOD?

214 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:10:59am

re: #181 MacDuff

You need to remember that The Big Zero is, first and foremost, a socialist. Socialists are by ideological necessity are a bunch of tyrannophiles. They have to be, because POWER (over the productive) IS LIFE!

A socialist complaining about the actions of another tyrant is just an act of rank hypocrisy.

215 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:11:07am

re: #204 sattv4u2

do not underestimate
A) the numbers of thirsty people
and
B) The Power Of The "O". If summer/fall 2008 didn't convince you of that,,,, ,,,

Wry Laugh.

Yeah, but in the end hope-n-change isn't gonna' feed the bulldog.

216 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:11:26am

re: #210 realwest

Hey justdanny - if they do in fact overthrow the Mullocracy in Iran, that IMO makes it easier for Iran to one day become a democracy - but not right away if Mousavi wins out here.

* * * *
Realwest, IF Mousavi perseveres & topples the regime, he owes the Mullahcracy NOTHING and the freedom loving Iranians EVERYTHING.

217 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:11:36am

re: #203 alegrias

OT
Charles Krauthammer is on Fox encouraging the middle class to go out & protest!

The radicalizing of Mousavi is what's important, that Iranians want the election annulled, they want freedom, this is a very radical statement.

Mousavi started out as a Gorbachev and now is a Yeltsin.

The Mousavi of a week ago is not the Mousavi of today.

Yes he is. He is no different than a western politician. He sees an opportinity and he's jumping on it. When the mob is chasing you out of town, hold your head up high so it looks like you're leading the parade.

As stated before, there is SCANT little difference between Mousavi and Ahmedinijad, and the mullahs picked BOTH to run.

218 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:04am

re: #200 Dar ul Harb

BBC Persian video of rioting, gunshots...

Link to Youtube

DAMN! ... To have an M-1 and be in the window where that camera is !

219 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:05am

From Twitter:

shab77 RT from Iran: State TV showing staged interview with a detainee saying he had orders from Monafeghin in Britain! #iranElection #gr88
less than 10 seconds ago from web

The regime is pretty desperate, apparently.

220 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:14am

re: #207 sattv4u2

re: #199 VegasRick

let me add ?

Sorry for my overly ethereal uber nuanced innuendo.

221 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:17am

re: #186 Edgesitter

If the report that the army has refused to fire on the protesters is true, the people have already won a major victory.

Ceaucescu Christmas! Woo Hoo!

222 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:17am

re: #210 realwest

Hey justdanny - if they do in fact overthrow the Mullocracy in Iran, that IMO makes it easier for Iran to one day become a democracy - but not right away if Mousavi wins out here.

It isnt about any of the politicians now, RW. Its about Iranians finally standing up.

223 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:17am

re: #212 justdanny

Haha. Youre funny. You need to take down that all or nothing frame youre looking through. Then you'll see how wrong you are.


Uh, sorry justdanny, but what all or nothing frame?

224 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:20am

re: #212 justdanny

Haha. Youre funny. You need to take down that all or nothing frame youre looking through. Then you'll see how wrong you are.

* * * *
I've actually lived in a dictatorship, so I've been through both sides of the frame, thank you very much.

225 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:12:50am

re: #161 itellu3times

I'm still very skeptical about this whole thing, because I cannot see where it is going. Mousavi in office would make no difference to the US. For Iran's own domestic situation - from what I read, Achmadinejad is as much of a "reformer", against the corrupt mullahs, as Mousavi. Can the choice between these two weevils really power a revolution?

So it's developing some momentum, it still looks to me like a train to nowhere.

I think that the Iranians may see this as a referendum on the Mullahocracy and, even though the US claimed to see "no difference" between the two, the people did.

If Mousavi somehow pulls this off, then turns it back over to the Mullahs, we may well see this happening again.

226 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:13:06am

OT: See you all tonight. Company coming soon.....

Please pray for the Iranians.

227 SecondComing  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:13:10am

ProtesterHelp: Arrested protesters confessing on state media where they are getting "orders" from: evil UK and zionists #iranelection

228 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:13:16am

re: #213 BigPapa

As in.... Where's Obama? What Would Obama Do?

WWOD?

* * * *
Planning to tax you for reparations for slavery, that's what's for dinner on Obama's plate last week & next.

229 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:13:29am

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Not really but the protesters are unarmed. I did just watch a video of the capturing some batons and helmets from police but it's not much. They're still just throwing stones.

Stones hurt. Stoning is an form of execution. Stones are a good start.

230 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:14:21am

That a suicide bomber apparently associates himself/herself with the demonstrators is not a good sign, but that nobody was killed suggests it was a depression suicide with a message.

In any case, during the Islamic revolution there was no compunction against killing anyone who stood in the way. The same people are still in control and without civil war, and the same lack of civility on the part of the opposition the Mullahs will win and will have to become more repressive. I saw an article recently detailing how essentially all the government is now controlled by "ex" Revolutionary Guard officers. If it was not a true dictatorship before this, I predict it will be now.

231 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:14:45am

if o had any balls or any sense he would come out now and deliver a blow to the thugs of iran and state unequivocally that he will not deal w/ murderers.

232 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:14:49am

re: #213 BigPapa

As in.... Where's Obama? What Would Obama Do?

WWOD?

Got it!

233 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:14:52am

re: #216 alegrias

* * * *
Realwest, IF Mousavi perseveres & topples the regime, he owes the Mullahcracy NOTHING and the freedom loving Iranians EVERYTHING.

I think that if the PEOPLE do overthrow the Mullahs, they may look to Mousavi (his comment quoted above and by CT is a great one if they win) as their leader - not so sure he'd look at them as his savior.

234 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:14:56am

re: #213 BigPapa

As in.... Where's Obama? What Would Obama Do?

WWOD?

And let me ask of Kerry, and Cato the Elder, the same question, as the young people trying to demonstrate peacefully are murdered in the streets.

235 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:03am

re: #225 MacDuff

I think that the Iranians may see this as a referendum on the Mullahocracy and, even though the US claimed to see "no difference" between the two, the people did.

If Mousavi somehow pulls this off, then turns it back over to the Mullahs, we may well see this happening again.

NOT as long as A) the mullahs back Mousavi and B) the Revolutionary guard/ army/ security back the mullahs

236 brucee  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:11am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC: Young Woman Shot

I only made it 9 seconds in. Watch at your own risk.

Is the world watching?!

237 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:15am

BBL

238 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:21am

Whatever they say about the suicide bomber- I won't believe it. I hope the people don't either.

239 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:35am

re: #202 alegrias

We agree on quite a bit. I would say this though.

Right now, this is bigger than any philosophical difference on LGF. It is bigger than Obama.

I am convinced we are witnessing a major historical event in the making.

History has a way of righting wrongs, and being 20/20.

History is funny that way.

240 Ateam  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:41am

re: #163 alegrias

* * * *
Mousavi told Ayatollah Khamenei he's ready for martyrdom--"you say you want a revolution" well, here's the 2009 version: LEt's Roll.

(Meanwhile, Pres. Obama and his democrat Senate friends were busy enacting apologies for 16th century slavetrading in the US yesterday. And planning restitution payments for slavery)

That's It! Mousavi himself declared civil rebellion against the regime. Few minutes ago he called for a general strike all over Iran.

241 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:47am

re: #217 sattv4u2

Yes he is. He is no different than a western politician. He sees an opportinity and he's jumping on it. When the mob is chasing you out of town, hold your head up high so it looks like you're leading the parade.

As stated before, there is SCANT little difference between Mousavi and Ahmedinijad, and the mullahs picked BOTH to run.

* * * *
Mousavi is not like a Western politician--he's a MARKED MAN ready for martyrdom.

Mousavi's looking at DEATH, not just an electoral loss.

242 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:15:56am

re: #203 alegrias

OT
Charles Krauthammer is on Fox encouraging the middle class to go out & protest!

The radicalizing of Mousavi is what's important, that Iranians want the election annulled, they want freedom, this is a very radical statement.

Mousavi started out as a Gorbachev and now is a Yeltsin.

The Mousavi of a week ago is not the Mousavi of today.

AND lets hope the Mousavi of 30 years ago is nothing like Mousavi today.

243 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:16:49am

Is Obama hiding under his desk, like his buddy Chavez did?

244 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:16:55am

re: #161 itellu3times

I'm still very skeptical about this whole thing, because I cannot see where it is going. Mousavi in office would make no difference to the US. For Iran's own domestic situation - from what I read, Achmadinejad is as much of a "reformer", against the corrupt mullahs, as Mousavi. Can the choice between these two weevils really power a revolution?

So it's developing some momentum, it still looks to me like a train to nowhere.

If nothing else, look at the difference between their wives. The way his wife speaks out, and what she has to say, are sufficient justification for our support. Nothing is guaranteed, but I'll put my money on a Mousavi government being much better than an Akhmadinejad. Especially if, but not only if, Khameini goes down.

245 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:17:03am

re: #238 Sharmuta

Whatever they say about the suicide bomber- I won't believe it. I hope the people don't either.

The State TV and all the state sources are obviously saying whatever they want about anything; it's one vast propaganda operation to discredit the protesters (and not incidentally, throw dirt on the US, UK, and Israel).

246 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:17:11am

re: #227 SecondComing

ProtesterHelp: Arrested protesters confessing on state media where they are getting "orders" from: evil UK and zionists #iranelection

** * * * * *
*T*O*R*T*U*R*E*

247 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:17:13am

re: #213 BigPapa

As in.... Where's Obama? What Would Obama Do?

WWOD?

Obama is showing us right now what he would do.

What would Reagan do?

248 Big steve  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:17:22am

Any human gathering, whether it be a country, a company, or a few guys meeting at Starbucks, develops a personality or culture unique to the group. I have been in companies where an autocratic person is the leader and group think becomes perverted in that people want to keep their jobs so they do things the boss wants even though they know it is wrong. The same with countries which can have brutal leadership and everyone just follows along (Hitler, Saddam, etc). Sometimes it does take an outside force to change the culture but often, all it takes is some awareness that there are others who KNOW the situation they are in is wrong. This is happening in Iran now, it is a very hard Genie to get back in the bottle, and it is a crying shame that the US leadership cannot find some way of giving some glimmer of help.

249 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:17:30am

re: #227 SecondComing

ProtesterHelp: Arrested protesters confessing on state media where they are getting "orders" from: evil UK and zionists #iranelection

But they stayed out of it so this wouldn't happen, right? Why did it still happen?

How long will the Anti-Meddlers hold their position?

250 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:17:48am

re: #205 BigPapa

Yes, most reasonable people would.

Are you suggesting that embassies don't take in any wounded?

I would suggest that they make other arrangements or be prepared to explicitly go to war with the present regime.

251 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:18:11am

re: #222 justdanny
Well do me a favor, please read sattv4u2 #217.
And when and if the revolution ends with the Mullahs thrown out on their asses, the people of Iran are probably gonna look to Mousavi to lead them.
And given what Mousavi has said today, they'd better win the revolution.

252 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:18:36am

re: #195 justdanny

Its not about either leader now. Its about the willingness, finally, of the Iranian people to stand against the government. Willing to die at the hands of the government to make it representative of them.

Many of the chants are against the guardian council and islamic rule. How can that be bad or unimportant?

AMEN!

253 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:19:11am

re: #241 alegrias

* * * *
Mousavi is not like a Western politician--he's a MARKED MAN ready for martyrdom.

Mousavi's looking at DEATH, not just an electoral loss.

NO ,, he's looking at becoming the President of Iran. HE didn't come out saying the election was tainted until AFTER the protests gained momentum. The "martyrdom" statemnet is rhetoric. If the mullahs wanted him dead, he's be room temp right now. The mullahs picked him to run AGAINST Ahmedinijad.

254 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:19:25am

re: #242 Racer X

AND lets hope the Mousavi of 30 years ago is nothing like Mousavi today.

* * * *
Even if he's just a place holder for more freedom loving leader, Mousavi's not going back to his handlers happily.

255 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:19:30am

re: #250 The Other Les
If any embassy is attacked....ie the US embassy 1979...IT is an act of war. Is Iran willing to attack the Swiss, UK, French?

256 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:20:06am

re: #202 alegrias

It's clear some here don't see what's so bad about living in a terrorist run police state with mandatory religion and NUKES!

Neither does President Obama, but I expected smarter lizards to think different.

What are you talking about? I haven't seen one comment in this thread that fits your description.

257 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:20:35am

re: #253 sattv4u2

NO ,, he's looking at becoming the President of Iran. HE didn't come out saying the election was tainted until AFTER the protests gained momentum. The "martyrdom" statemnet is rhetoric. If the mullahs wanted him dead, he's be room temp right now. The mullahs picked him to run AGAINST Ahmedinijad.

And it appears the mullahs made a fatal error, as the protests now seem to be aimed at THEM.

258 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:20:37am

re: #243 pat

Is Obama hiding under his desk, like his buddy Chavez did?

* * * *
Like the Kerrys and Fondas who watched millions die in Cambodia & Vietnam, democrats have "MovedOn.org"

259 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:20:45am

TehranBureau:

Reports: People Blocking Streets at Tehran Pars (East Tehran) and Setting Fires
260 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:21:23am

re: #218 pre-Boomer Marine brat

DAMN! ... To have an M-1 and be in the window where that camera is !

Yeah, the street would be littered with dead thugs and their motorcycles.

The video of the girl who had been shot, and who apparently died, didn't make me cry. It did fill me with an incredibly anger.

261 SecondComing  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:21:34am

re: #246 alegrias

** * * * * *
*T*O*R*T*U*R*E*

bingo!

262 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:21:54am

re: #257 Racer X

And it appears the mullahs made a fatal error, as the protests now seem to be aimed at THEM.

correct. They are not "pro Mousavi" as much as they are ANTI-system. Mousavi is just cashing in on the movement

((and someone said he's not a western style politician ,,, yyeeessshhHH!)

263 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:22:02am

re: #211 formercorpsman

We've seen amazing acts of bravery from the Iranian women this week. It's heartbreaking to see one of them fall.

264 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:22:37am

We're doing as good a job as the big guys, apparently:

ccatko: Watching #iranelection coverage on CNN and it's all stuff from Twitter, Google, Facebook, and YouTube. #whoneedsTV
265 austin_blue  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:23:06am

re: #14 ralphieboy

Blowing up The Alatollah's tomb? This is the work of someone who seriously has destabilization as an agenda.
Why would any sane protester give the authorities excuse to crack down on any and all opposition: they are threatening the Iranian Revolution!

More to the point, what kind of incompetent splodeydope goes "boom" and wounds two? I'll call bullshit.

266 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:23:14am

re: #263 Killgore Trout
FNC said they wouldn't show that. They should. Just like they should show the people leaping from the WTC. THIS is the face of terrorists.

267 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:23:19am

re: #231 nyc redneck

if o had any balls or any sense he would come out now and deliver a blow to the thugs of iran and state unequivocally that he will not deal w/ murderers.

He simply cannot do that. He would be cutting his own throat.

The Big Zero is a socialist. Socialism REQUIRES the credible threat of the exercise of deadly force against the productive population in order to exist. And the problem with making threats is that sometimes they have to be carried out.

268 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:23:22am

Killgore, just in from TehranBureau:

Report: The Girl Shot Dead by Bssij, killed at Salehi Cr, At Karegar St.

Wonder if that's your video lady?

269 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:23:46am

re: #224 alegrias

* * * *
I've actually lived in a dictatorship, so I've been through both sides of the frame, thank you very much.

Good for you. But to allow your experience to indict anyone here isnt right.

You said,

It's clear some here don't see what's so bad about living in a terrorist run police state with mandatory religion and NUKES!

Neither does President Obama, but I expected smarter lizards to think different.

Thats ridiculous. Nobody here thinks its evenly marginally ok to live in a terrosrist run state. And nobody here is any less competent or intelligent because you think we think living in a terrorist state is ok.

And RW

To believe this event has anything to do with either of the politicians involved is not looking clearly at whats happening. So I assume that not being able to see this thing clearly means one is viewing it through a frame of their expectations. The complete destruction of all signs of islam in Iran would be all . Either ide winning this conflict would be nothing . Thats not whats happening here and its a simple mischaracterization of the facts of this event.

Iranians who have been silent under the thumb of a primitivist oppressive dictatorship of fear and ignorance are finally standing against it. Many of the crowds are chanting death to the guardian council. This sint about Nejad or Mussavi. Its about victims finally ready and willing to face their demons head on.

270 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:23:53am

re: #263 Killgore Trout

We've seen amazing acts of bravery from the Iranian women this week. It's heartbreaking to see one of them fall.

I almost feel guilty taking off tomorrow for vacation. Not that I m doing anything for them, but to watch these brave ladies while the biggest decision I'll have for the next 18 days is beach or pool!

It will haunt me at times knowing what;'s going on

271 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:24:16am

re: #235 sattv4u2

NOT as long as A) the mullahs back Mousavi and B) the Revolutionary guard/ army/ security back the mullahs

I don't think the Mullahs will ever back Mousavi; all of their eggs are in AJad's basket. Mousavi may have started out as the hand-picked fall guy for a rigged election, but now things seem to have changed. He's off the Mullah reservation and considers himself a free agent and the people believe him.

This seems to be developing into a "all or nothing" situation, for the people as well as for Mousavi.

272 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:24:20am

re: #268 reine.de.tout

Could be.

273 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:24:33am

re: #261 SecondComing

bingo!

Well, maybe not. Maybe not torture--only because they might simply threaten to arrest/kill the protester's entire family. I wouldn't be surprised.

There were reports that the night before Basji were warning people that if they took in protesters or let them hide, that they and their families would be punished-- so we know they have no compunction about threatning people by threatening their whole family.

274 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:24:44am

re: #230 Naso Tang

In any case, during the Islamic revolution there was no compunction against killing anyone who stood in the way. The same people are still in control and without civil war, and the same lack of civility on the part of the opposition the Mullahs will win and will have to become more repressive. I saw an article recently detailing how essentially all the government is now controlled by "ex" Revolutionary Guard officers. If it was not a true dictatorship before this, I predict it will be now.

Half a beat behind. The coup has already been carried out, and this is a reaction. You are correct about the dictatorship--I saw an article about the pesky Islamist aspect of the dictatorship having been defenestrated. It is now a purely military dictatorship, with the roles of puppet and master reversed--MA did for the Mullahs.
The question now is will it stand? The people of Iran seem to say no. We seem to say nothing.

275 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:00am

re: #260 Son of the Black Dog

Yeah, the street would be littered with dead thugs and their motorcycles.

The video of the girl who had been shot, and who apparently died, didn't make me cry. It did fill me with an incredibly anger.

I couldn't get to that one, don't have a Facebook account.

Toward the end of the other video (two cars burning & gunshots), I saw two shooters moving around on a balcony on the righthand side of the street, above and to the right of the burning cars, same elevation as the camera.

Clear shot.
Squeeze, don't pull.

276 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:02am

re: #270 sattv4u2

I almost feel guilty taking off tomorrow for vacation. Not that I m doing anything for them, but to watch these brave ladies while the biggest decision I'll have for the next 18 days is beach or pool!

It will haunt me at times knowing what;'s going on

I woke up in the middle of the night last night to check the news. They are on my mind.

277 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:11am

re: #268 reine.de.tout

Killgore, just in from TehranBureau:


Wonder if that's your video lady?

I hope she has lots of brothers and sisters to avenge her death.

278 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:17am

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Yes. I really don't have words.

I am afraid, it is the only thing that can break them free.

As the father of a daughter, that video speaks to me on many levels.

279 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:19am

re: #255 pingjockey

If any embassy is attacked....ie the US embassy 1979...IT is an act of war. Is Iran willing to attack the Swiss, UK, French?

Of course they are. They have to be.

280 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:20am

Has Mousavi "told" any of the population where to march, where to protest, what time and place to go to?

I ask because if he or his people are doing that, I hope it's not because they are working with the government and trying to corral people into certain ambushes.

Opposition candidate or not, I really don't trust anyone who was able to get on that ballot.

Beware, IMHO.

281 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:22am

re: #263 Killgore Trout

We've seen amazing acts of bravery from the Iranian women this week. It's heartbreaking to see one of them fall.

Forcing women to be hidden under black bags doesn't seem to have broken them at all.

282 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:25:58am

re: #243 pat

Is Obama hiding under his desk, like his buddy Chavez did?

no, he's out telling jokes, or reading platitudes, trying to get round of applause,
for being o.

283 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:26:21am

re: #281 debutaunt

Forcing women to be hidden under black bags doesn't seem to have broken them at all.

Think of this a slave revolt.

ISLAM=SLAVERY

284 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:26:44am

re: #279 The Other Les
Could the 'concerned countries' completely cut off Iran? Blockade as it were? I do know Iran has only one refinery for gasoline.

285 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:26:47am

re: #281 debutaunt

Forcing women to be hidden under black bags doesn't seem to have broken them at all.

More likely it bred resentment.

286 pingjockey  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:27:20am

BBL!

287 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:27:27am

re: #284 pingjockey

Could the 'concerned countries' completely cut off Iran? Blockade as it were? I do know Iran has only one refinery for gasoline.

They have to import refined products, that's true.

288 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:27:35am

The false flag aspect of the suicide bomber is still a decent suspicion. If it turn out this woman was recently in State custody, it would become close to certainty.

289 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:28:21am

re: #269 justdanny
You're right about the Iranian people standing up justdanny, and I'm right that after the revolution SOMEONE is gonna have to run Iran and right now the only person I see on the horizion is Mousavi and he isn't known as particularly friendly to the West and he is on record as saying Iran should have nuclear power (a la dinnerjacket).
Would I prefer Mousavi over the Mullahs? Absolutely, but only because it would bring the Iranian people closer to democracy by either making him change or overthrowing him, without all the religious baggage involved.

290 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:28:37am

any volunteers to take my place for my 1 hour long run today?

291 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:28:37am

From Twitter:

d_dannels @6p3v RT @numonkeys: Beautiful quote today: "Iran isn't falling -- it's standing up." #IranElection

292 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:29:27am

re: #291 Dar ul Harb

From Twitter:

I love it!

293 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:29:32am

re: #291 Dar ul Harb

From Twitter:

d_dannels @6p3v RT @numonkeys: Beautiful quote today: "Iran isn't falling -- it's standing up." #IranElection

LOL!
*SALUTE*

294 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:29:35am

re: #289 realwest

He is an evil bastard, but didn't he also say he did not want a nuclear armed Iran?

295 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:29:46am

re: #290 pat

any volunteers to take my place for my 1 hour long run today?

pat .... hahahahaha ... lol ... you did forget your sarc tag right? ... geez ... that would send me right to the hospital ...

296 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:30:05am

Another weasel statement from the UN...

"A top U.N. human rights official also said she was concerned about reports of excessive force and arrests at the protests. "The legal basis of the arrests that have been taking place, especially those of human rights defenders and political activists, is not clear," said Navi Pillay, high commissioner for human rights."

Try watching the videos stupid!

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

297 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:30:28am

re: #288 pat

1:19 PM ET --

State TV reportedly shows shrine damage. From a reader: "I'm watching state TV here in Dubai and they just did a report on the bombing at the mausoleum. There was NO DAMAGE. All they showed was a broken window saying the "terrorists" luckily blew themselves up outside the building before doing any damage inside. The "bombing" was clearly a fraud as there was NO DAMAGE done to the mausoleum other than a broken window they showed at the entrance of the building. It clearly looked like there was NO BOMBING, no explosion fragments or blood shown just one shattered window. Also a correction to my previous e-mail. The program said the youths had been talking to "friends" in the U.K. and the U.S. on the phone about causing destruction in Iran rather than actually going to the U.S. and being trained. Important difference but the subtext is the same. They're clearly building a case for foreign interference i.e. the U.K and U.S."
298 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:30:36am

re: #267 The Other Les

He simply cannot do that. He would be cutting his own throat.

The Big Zero is a socialist. Socialism REQUIRES the credible threat of the exercise of deadly force against the productive population in order to exist. And the problem with making threats is that sometimes they have to be carried out.

sadly, you are absolutely correct.

299 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:30:44am

re: #290 pat

any volunteers to take my place for my 1 hour long run today?

Rest easy. I'm moving my feet on the carpet beneath the desk.

/well ... KIND of moving them

300 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:31:16am

re: #284 pingjockey

Could the 'concerned countries' completely cut off Iran? Blockade as it were? I do know Iran has only one refinery for gasoline.

Blockade is an act of war. The only thing the present rulers are going to listen to in the fall of the hammer or the pistol behind their heads.

301 Gearhead  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:31:25am

I'm glad the Iranians are not giving in. I was afraid it was fizzling yesterday.

I saw one Tweet a moment ago: "It's not about Moussavi anymore. It's about Khamenei."

302 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:32:03am

re: #288 pat

The false flag aspect of the suicide bomber is still a decent suspicion. If it turn out this woman was recently in State custody, it would become close to certainty.

It could also turn out the bomber was just a nut, and the State TV etc seized on the opportunity to spin it. It's so hard to know. I think it's pretty clear that any 'news' presented by the regime in power has to be taken with suspicion.

(Altho some upthread were saying that TV crews etc were in place before the bombing; I don't know about that. )

303 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:32:04am

re: #277 VegasRick

I hope she has lots of brothers and sisters to avenge her death.

If this video get wide distribution, she will have a whole world of brothers and sisters. She will become the face of the Iranian resistance.

304 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:32:44am

re: #251 realwest

Well do me a favor, please read sattv4u2 #217.
And when and if the revolution ends with the Mullahs thrown out on their asses, the people of Iran are probably gonna look to Mousavi to lead them.
And given what Mousavi has said today, they'd better win the revolution.

With all do respect to you, RW. sattv4u2 obviously lives in a bubble of his own ideas and opinions, unaffected by reality. A toppled guardian council means a toppled Mussavi as well. In 1979 the revolution was for freedoms and democracy. It was hijacked by islamists and they have been in power ever since.

This revolution is to clear the table of that horrific mitake.

305 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:32:45am

re: #296 Walter L. Newton

We also have to remember that the UN is pretty much the tyrannophiles clubhouse.

306 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:32:49am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

Ahhhaaa

307 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:33:02am

re: #256 Charles

What are you talking about? I haven't seen one comment in this thread that fits your description.

* * * *
Sorry, Charles, I apologize for getting carried away. I have Iranian friends going back 35 years, including people there now, so perhaps get more upset at what I perceive are wishy washy comments.

Having lived in a dictatorship, I feel very strongly about the difference between freedom and tyranny, and these mullahs are tyrants.

Others may disagree, but I understand why these Iranians are risking life & limb.

Again, my apologies for mischaracterizing anyone's comments as wishy washy.

308 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:34:02am

re: #294 pat

He is an evil bastard, but didn't he also say he did not want a nuclear armed Iran?

Well my recollection - and I'd be pleased as hell if I were wrong on this - is that Mousavi said Iran has the same right to nuclear power (like dinnerjacket I suppose, for peaceful purposes) as any other nation in the ME.
What I don't know is where he stand with regard to Israel and that's of extreme importance to me.

309 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:34:05am

re: #91 shanec99

Burying him will ensure that the ground under which he lays will never bear any edible fruit into perpetuity.


The regime poured a huge concrete slab over the tomb so no one could open it and get to the body. So, you're right on that one.
/pardon if already posted

310 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:34:25am

re: #281 debutaunt

Forcing women to be hidden under black bags doesn't seem to have broken them at all.

Perhaps that is because their mothers have told them about a time before the black bags.

311 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:34:51am

re: #304 justdanny

This revolution is to clear the table of that horrific mitake.

Throwing off slavery is never a mistake, Mousavi losing was the spark, the explosion front is beyond Mousavi, although he may be the face and a new leader he will have new masters, not the mullahs.

312 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:35:31am

Mousavi is reported to be speaking to protesters on Jeyhoon street. He said a few minutes ago:'
'I am prepared for martyrdom, Shame on you and your tricks the coup government. end quote'

Martyrdom? Seas of green? now suicide bombers?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Seems the new boss is shaping up to be "same as the old boss" Obama is wise not to get us involved. I'm perfectly content to let these people kill each other with the same enthusiasm with which they kill Westerners. You can all wave purple fingers in the air, or spew platitudes like "we are all Iranians now" of some such bullshit. Me, I'm grabbing some popcorn.

313 SecondComing  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:36:09am

re: #273 iceweasel

Well, maybe not. Maybe not torture--only because they might simply threaten to arrest/kill the protester's entire family. I wouldn't be surprised.

There were reports that the night before Basji were warning people that if they took in protesters or let them hide, that they and their families would be punished-- so we know they have no compunction about threatning people by threatening their whole family.

Pretty much the same thing.

314 brucee  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:36:15am

re: #253 sattv4u2

NO ,, he's looking at becoming the President of Iran. HE didn't come out saying the election was tainted until AFTER the protests gained momentum. The "martyrdom" statemnet is rhetoric. If the mullahs wanted him dead, he's be room temp right now. The mullahs picked him to run AGAINST Ahmedinijad.

WHAT? Mousavi said the election was rigged and must be annulled the morning after.

315 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:36:16am

re: #284 pingjockey

Could the 'concerned countries' completely cut off Iran? Blockade as it were? I do know Iran has only one refinery for gasoline.

The EU would probably send the Swiss Navy.

316 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:36:20am

re: #310 Son of the Black Dog

Perhaps that is because their mothers have told them about a time before the black bags.

I remember seeing a photo of a hot Iranian lady in a bikini on the beach. Unfortunately there was also a black bag on the beach.

317 kf  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:36:39am

There is no doubt in my mind that the "suicide bomber" story is a complete fabrication meant to smear the protesters. The *only news sources* reporting it are controlled by the Iranian government.

This is not dissimilar to the Nazis setting fire to the Reichstag in order to seize power. They blamed the communist party, used it as an excuse to jail them all, then became the majority party in Germany.

318 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:37:18am

re: #307 alegrias

((((((alegrias))))))

319 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:37:33am

re: #274 haakondahl

defenestrated: "Someone or something thrown out of a window."
Mean Word!

320 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:37:35am

re: #313 SecondComing

Pretty much the same thing.

Yep. Forcing them to give false testimony under duress.

321 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:37:45am

Hey all! I'm back for a short while. What did I miss?

322 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:37:46am

re: #289 realwest

If this revolution is successful, which I highly doubt it will be, unlike here, Iranians arent armed to the teeth. But if it is successful, Mussavi will only be a footnote.

323 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:37:47am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

Oh, go piss up a rope.

324 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:37:53am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

Mousavi is reported to be speaking to protesters on Jeyhoon street. He said a few minutes ago:'
'I am prepared for martyrdom, Shame on you and your tricks the coup government. end quote'

Martyrdom? Seas of green? now suicide bombers?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Seems the new boss is shaping up to be "same as the old boss" Obama is wise not to get us involved. I'm perfectly content to let these people kill each other with the same enthusiasm with which they kill Westerners. You can all wave purple fingers in the air, or spew platitudes like "we are all Iranians now" of some such bullshit. Me, I'm grabbing some popcorn.

RS ... I hope you choke on it ...

/not enough to kill you so don't slam me for making threats ... just enough to make your eyes bug out ...

325 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:38:01am

re: #315 Son of the Black Dog

The EU would probably send the Swiss Navy.

A handful of freshwater patrol boats ain't going to do the job.

(Yes, the Swiss DO have a navy.)

326 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:39:28am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

Mousavi is reported to be speaking to protesters on Jeyhoon street. He said a few minutes ago:'
'I am prepared for martyrdom, Shame on you and your tricks the coup government. end quote'

Martyrdom? Seas of green? now suicide bombers?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Seems the new boss is shaping up to be "same as the old boss" Obama is wise not to get us involved. I'm perfectly content to let these people kill each other with the same enthusiasm with which they kill Westerners. You can all wave purple fingers in the air, or spew platitudes like "we are all Iranians now" of some such bullshit. Me, I'm grabbing some popcorn.

And in 1776 you would have been collecting the stamp tax, because it was just the same old shit?

Watch the videos.

Watch this video Friday Night in Iran......

327 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:39:40am

The key to this whole situation will be the loyalty of the Armed Forces, Police and Militias. Remember the DDR in 1989. Effectively the DDR Army, and Police refused to put an uprising down and the DDR disappeared. If this happens in "Iran" - it will be the greatest stroke of luck for US Foreign Policy in about 20 years.

-S-

328 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:39:58am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

Yes, cowards they are.

Tool.

329 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:40:07am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

That's a really sad commentary. You don't care about these people dying for their freedom, why should I think you'd value the freedom of anyone else?

330 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:40:12am

re: #304 justdanny

Who will run the Iranian government if the revolution is successful?

331 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:40:33am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

Well, at least you're not cynical. Geez.

332 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:41:13am

re: #303 Son of the Black Dog

If this video get wide distribution, she will have a whole world of brothers and sisters. She will become the face of the Iranian resistance.

For those without Facebook account (WARNING: Graphic):

Link To Youtube

R.I.P., daughter of Iran

Marg bar Khamieni

333 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:41:32am

re: #304 justdanny

This revolution is to clear the table of that horrific mitake.

Now, now! I think Mitake makes really great dishes! They have some very lovely patterns, and all the right folks in the expensive subdivisions around me use Mitake china.
/wait, you mean...? Never mind.
/h

334 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #330 Racer X

I think that is a perpetual question that comes with every situation like this.

I don't think there is an immediate answer. The dice must role first.

335 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:41:47am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

FOAD, asshole!

336 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:41:49am

re: #304 justdanny
Sigh. One last time my friend - WHO is gonna lead Iran after the revolution throws out the Mullahs? The only "named" Iranian leader I know of, is the one who said today that he's ready to die for the people or somesuch ("willing to be a martyr" maybe).
From what little I know of him, other folks will come along in due course to replace him and Iran will not be run by a despot anymore, but right after the Revolution, SOMEONE's gonna have to run Iran and who else but Mousavi?! He's not a Mullah - hell I'm not even sure he's as "religiously qualified" as dinnerjacket.
And to be candid, I DON'T think the '79 revolution was run by anyone except the ole Khomeni - who we allowed to come back from Paris and who then let the "students" take over our embassy and hold our civilians as hostages. The 1979 revolution wasn't really started by the students, it was set up by Kohmeni himself.

337 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:42:05am

Andrew Sullivan-- who I usually have no use for, but who has had excellent coverage of Iran--suggests that what's going on is in part a struggle over the nature of Islam itself:

(Apparently some of the protesters are carrying the Koran)

The use of the Koran in resisting oppression of this kind, now confirmed all over the place, strikes me as a vital gesture. It puts the lie to the idea that Islam is not, at its core, a religion of peace, however hijacked by the fundamentalists and fascists. It is of a part with the color green and the cries into the night of Allah O Akbar. In this pitched battle, there is also a struggle for the soul of Islam. It is so so heartening to see decent people fighting back to reclaim their faith. Without these Muslims, the world will know no peace.

338 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:42:15am

re: #304 justdanny

With all do respect to you, RW. sattv4u2 obviously lives in a bubble of his own ideas and opinions, unaffected by reality. A toppled guardian council means a toppled Mussavi as well. In 1979 the revolution was for freedoms and democracy. It was hijacked by islamists and they have been in power ever since.

This revolution is to clear the table of that horrific mitake.

Please point out my "bubble". What I stated in 217 is 100% accurate. Mousavi is an opportunist. Mousavi was part of the inner circle in '79. The mullahs control the Revolutionary guard, but the guard also in a way controls the mullahs. Both are aware of this. if the mullahs tell the guard that Mousavi is now "the man", then Mousavi will in fact be "the man"

If you care to debate someone, do it in without the ad ho minim or don't do it at all

339 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:42:16am

re: #330 Racer X

A person chosen by the people, for the people.

Who is that. I dont know. My friends have mentioned several names and none of them are Mussavi.

340 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:42:25am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

Mousavi is reported to be speaking to protesters on Jeyhoon street. He said a few minutes ago:'
'I am prepared for martyrdom, Shame on you and your tricks the coup government. end quote'

Martyrdom? Seas of green? now suicide bombers?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Seems the new boss is shaping up to be "same as the old boss" Obama is wise not to get us involved. I'm perfectly content to let these people kill each other with the same enthusiasm with which they kill Westerners. You can all wave purple fingers in the air, or spew platitudes like "we are all Iranians now" of some such bullshit. Me, I'm grabbing some popcorn.

How nuanced. How insouciant. How about fucking yourself?

341 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:42:42am

re: #332 Dar ul Harb

For those without Facebook account (WARNING: Graphic):

Link To Youtube

R.I.P., daughter of Iran

Marg bar Khamieni

Fucking bastards.

342 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:42:58am

re: #337 iceweasel

IW ... AS sucks ... even if he gets it right every blue moon ...

343 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:43:03am

More video of police beating women.

344 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:43:04am

re: #274 haakondahl

Half a beat behind. The coup has already been carried out, and this is a reaction. You are correct about the dictatorship--I saw an article about the pesky Islamist aspect of the dictatorship having been defenestrated. It is now a purely military dictatorship, with the roles of puppet and master reversed--MA did for the Mullahs.
The question now is will it stand? The people of Iran seem to say no. We seem to say nothing.

Some of the people of Iran say no, obviously all do not. Sure it would feel good to see Obama make more noise, but there is time yet.

I agree however, whatever some think, that coming out too soon against the regime would only play into their hands by giving them the excuse to call it all a CIA plot (remember how the Shah was once helped?). I think it was instructive that the Supreme whatsits chose to call Britain the great satan the other day, not the USA.

The time will come to call them what they are when they have killed more of their own, but simply lambasting Obama for not using tougher words at this stage is silly and would only play into the Mullah's hands if he did and have more people killed sooner.

As to what we can do about it. Nothing that counts, short of war.

345 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:43:06am

re: #296 Walter L. Newton

Try watching the videos stupid!

Walter, the UN only has 23 computers, prolly Apple IIe's. That would explain a lot, wouldn't it?

346 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:43:14am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

Yeah, kill 'em all!
/////


Most Lizards have evolved past that.

347 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:44:19am

Beware the squabbling. Keep debates factual please.

348 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:44:34am

re: #337 iceweasel

Andrew Sullivan-- who I usually have no use for, but who has had excellent coverage of Iran--suggests that what's going on is in part a struggle over the nature of Islam itself:

(Apparently some of the protesters are carrying the Koran)

It would be an interesting turn of events if what is going on in Iran lights the fire of a "reformation" of Islam.

349 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:44:40am

re: #318 MandyManners

((((((alegrias))))))

* * * *
Thank you. I still want Iraqis freed by American blood & treasure, to stand up for fellow freedom fighters in Iraq.

Wah wah wah, I want Iraqis to show some gumption & share the wealth of freedom with their neighbors.

350 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:44:54am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

{gaze}

351 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:44:58am

re: #332 Dar ul Harb

That just breaks my heart watching that.

352 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:45:01am

re: #345 BigPapa

Walter, the UN only has 23 computers, prolly Apple IIe's. That would explain a lot, wouldn't it?

They have only two functions.

F1 - print condemnation of Israel.
F2 - print generic strongly worded statement.

The rest is a kiddie pr0n screen saver.

353 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:45:21am

re: #336 realwest

We have a different understanding. I wish I could answer your question with concrete but I cant. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

354 Kozak  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:45:26am

re: #7 pegcity

they tore him to shreads

Yeah, I remember thinking they thought he was a Pinata....

355 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:45:40am

re: #342 JacksonTn

IW ... AS sucks ... even if he gets it right every blue moon ...

I agree. (That's one reason why I've been surprised he's been a good source of reporting on Iran.)
His opinion and his analyses stink and I think he's a tool.

356 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:46:27am

re: #343 Killgore Trout

More video of police beating women.

I can't see that one because I don't have a facebook account. Can anyone download it and post it to youtube or something?

357 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:46:52am

re: #332 Dar ul Harb

For those without Facebook account (WARNING: Graphic):

Link To Youtube

R.I.P., daughter of Iran

Marg bar Khamieni

R.I.P.

/Thanks, Dar ul Harb !

358 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:47:05am

re: #348 Walter L. Newton

It would be an interesting turn of events if what is going on in Iran lights the fire of a "reformation" of Islam.

Absolutely! Long range, who knows? It seems possible, and that's hopeful.

359 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:47:05am

Back again ...

Tweet from LaraABC:
' rooftop Allahu Akbars have begun #Iranelection'

So - the people are out and shouting, like last night.
They have not been intimidated.

360 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:47:20am

re: #353 justdanny

We have a different understanding. I wish I could answer your question with concrete but I cant. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

You are correct about Mousavi's past, and the current situation. However the protest is now about getting rid of Mullahs, if Mousavi is to emerge as a leader he won't be on the Mullahs lease.

We'll see how pragmatic he, if he ends up in leadership, he will be.

361 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:47:38am

re: #337 iceweasel

Andrew Sullivan-- who I usually have no use for, but who has had excellent coverage of Iran--suggests that what's going on is in part a struggle over the nature of Islam itself:

(Apparently some of the protesters are carrying the Koran)

Sullivan has been doing great work, in between mean-spirited and unsupportable attacks on any Republicans in the room, in following and publicising what is going on in Iran.
And it is a mistake to lump all of these Muslim countries in as some monolithic bloc, and an even greater mistake to simply decide that it's too hard to figure out, and that therefore Islam is the enemy--we can't even fight that war, much less win it. But if seen as an emerging global struglle between the decent and the monstrous, we find allies in some surprising places. Enemies, too.

362 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:47:50am
djsutton80 RT @Midgetqueen rt @protesterhelp Injured protests are confirmed to be being removed from hospitals and taken away. #iranelection
less than 20 seconds ago from web

Government run health care *spit*

363 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:47:51am

re: #348 Walter L. Newton

It would be an interesting turn of events if what is going on in Iran lights the fire of a "reformation" of Islam.

WLN ... I believe they are carrying the Koran so it is kinda like a shield ... not like a shield from the weapons ... a shield of the mind and heart ....

364 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:47:59am

re: #353 justdanny
Well let's wait and see TOGETHER my friend - and pray that the "revolution" is successful!

365 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:48:00am

re: #338 sattv4u2
Im glad you have such a firm grip on this situation. I disagree with almost everything youve expressed here. If you express an opinion that is stated as fact, I harldy see my dispelling it as an ad hominem attack.

366 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:48:01am

re: #327 Dr. Shalit

The key to this whole situation will be the loyalty of the Armed Forces, Police and Militias. Remember the DDR in 1989. Effectively the DDR Army, and Police refused to put an uprising down and the DDR disappeared. If this happens in "Iran" - it will be the greatest stroke of luck for US Foreign Policy in about 20 years.

-S-

* * * *
Imagine what a peaceful, NON terrorist exporting Iran would mean to the whole planet:

NORKs, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda would lose their financial supporter.

Democracies in Lebanon, Iraq and the rest of the Middle East would have clearer sailing.

Israel could breathe a bit.

367 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:48:09am

I have to get to work.

I will say one thing. I know Fox has rightfully caught heat for some of their programming choices as of late.

I don't know if they are the only ones giving traction to this right now. I have switched some channels, and it seems to me they are.

For this, they do deserve credit.

368 kf  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:48:21am

re: #326 jcm

Watch this video Friday Night in Iran......

Yeah, I've been sending this video to everyone. This is a struggle of humanity against tyranny. And as Americans, not Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans we can all recognize this struggle because our ancestors went through it to give us the freedoms that we have now.

Alternative link on Youtube

369 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:48:29am

re: #336 realwest

BINGO ,, '79 had NOTHING to do with "students" wanting democracy. It had EVERYTHING to do with thos wanting a theocracy being Anti Shah/ WEST and PRO Kohmenie

370 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:48:50am

re: #344 Naso Tang

Some of the people of Iran say no, obviously all do not. Sure it would feel good to see Obama make more noise, but there is time yet.

I agree however, whatever some think, that coming out too soon against the regime would only play into their hands by giving them the excuse to call it all a CIA plot (remember how the Shah was once helped?). I think it was instructive that the Supreme whatsits chose to call Britain the great satan the other day, not the USA.

The time will come to call them what they are when they have killed more of their own, but simply lambasting Obama for not using tougher words at this stage is silly and would only play into the Mullah's hands if he did and have more people killed sooner.

As to what we can do about it. Nothing that counts, short of war.

You know, I don't give two-shits if they call it a CIA plot, western interference or some fucking plan by Microsoft to corner the operating system market in Iran, these people need SUPPORT.

Period.

In the least, knowledge that the free people of the world are behind them. Voting "present" is not going to hack it.

371 realwest  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:49:10am

Sorry y'all but I gotta run now. Hope you all have a great day, hope the people succeed in what now certainly appears to have become a people's revolution in Iran and hope I get the chance to see you all down the road!

372 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:49:15am

re: #337 iceweasel

Andrew Sullivan-- who I usually have no use for, but who has had excellent coverage of Iran--suggests that what's going on is in part a struggle over the nature of Islam itself:

(Apparently some of the protesters are carrying the Koran)

Some of the "tweets" indicated that people were being encouraged to carry the Koran because it was against the law for authorities to shoot somebody who is carrying the Koran.

Lest they drop the Koran, I'm sure.

373 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:49:49am

re: #363 JacksonTn

WLN ... I believe they are carrying the Koran so it is kinda like a shield ... not like a shield from the weapons ... a shield of the mind and heart ....

Exactly - see re: #372 reine.de.tout

Some of the "tweets" indicated that people were being encouraged to carry the Koran because it was against the law for authorities to shoot somebody who is carrying the Koran.

Lest they drop the Koran, I'm sure.

374 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:49:54am

re: #330 Racer X

Who will run the Iranian government if the revolution is successful?

* * * *
We tried to be the deciders in newly liberated Iraq, but our "preferred political providers" weren't necessarily the ones Iraqis wanted for themselves.

We cannot know a priori who will emerge as brave leaders--we can't guess who will lead the GOP to victory!

375 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:50:01am

Here is the latest info from Winston's blog. I wonder if he has slept at all.

BBL

376 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:50:02am

Picture of the German Head of state, President Kohler, with a group of Iranian dissidents:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

377 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:50:17am

Fox news - French calling for dinnerjacket to step down.

378 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:50:19am

re: #348 Walter L. Newton

It would be an interesting turn of events if what is going on in Iran lights the fire of a "reformation" of Islam.

It's a bit ironic that where people are risking their lives for "Hope and Change", President Hopenchange has fallen mute,

379 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:50:55am

re: #377 debutaunt

No way.

380 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:51:19am

re: #365 justdanny

Im glad you have such a firm grip on this situation. I disagree with almost everything youve expressed here. If you express an opinion that is stated as fact, I harldy see my dispelling it as an ad hominem attack.

disagree 100% if you care too. I welcome that. "sattv4u2 obviously lives in a bubble of his own ideas and opinions, unaffected by reality." is ad hominem, plai and simple. There was no opposing view, no supporting theorum, just a shot!

381 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:51:23am

This discussion of Mousavi's being "more of the same" brings up another interesting point. The demonstrators are rallying around him, and he is the hero (and, perhaps, the martyr) of their cause. But the real significance of this event could turn out to be the dismantling of the mullahs' whole regime. If that does happen, then there will be a large power vacuum, and the best thing for the world would be for someone who isn't a pro-nuclear weapons, formerly mullah-approved politician to take over. I.e. someone other than Mousavi.

An appropriately cagey U.S. president might be withholding any major words of support for the Mousavi supporters now, on the theory that he doesn't want to appear to have been loyal to Mousavi later, if there should arise a competition between Mousavi and a more desirable alternative.

I do not believe that we actually have an appropriately cagey U.S. president. I think we have a dangerously incompetent imbecile who is acting the way he is because he doesn't want to offend the mullahs. But it is something to think about.

382 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:51:25am

re: #359 yma o hyd

Back again ...

Tweet from LaraABC:
' rooftop Allahu Akbars have begun #Iranelection'

So - the people are out and shouting, like last night.
They have not been intimidated.

at some point people will get so sick of their faces in the dirt they will risk anything to get rid of that boot on the back of their necks.

383 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:51:30am

re: #379 formercorpsman

No way.

Amazing, huh?

384 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:52:00am

re: #328 formercorpsman

Yes, cowards they are.

Tool.

We could nickname restitutor orbis "wedge", 'cause that's the simplest kind of tool there is. Sort of like Nodrog.

385 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:52:27am

Twitters are now tweeting the adresses of Western embassies in Tehran so people know where to take the wounded.

386 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:52:29am

re: #383 debutaunt

I'm speechless.

387 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:52:33am

re: #277 VegasRick

I hope she has lots of brothers and sisters to avenge her death.

Vengeance is a trademark of Islam. Justice is a trademark of America.

388 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:52:36am

re: #375 NY Nana

Here is the latest info from Winston's blog. I wonder if he has slept at all.

BBL

From Winston's site:

"Tehran protesters coming in waves, will go on till dark & beyond. This no longer rally but street fighting".

Amazing.

389 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:52:38am

re: #379 formercorpsman

No way.

When the French are way out in fron of the POTUS in supporting democracy, we have a problem.....

390 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:52:54am

re: #361 haakondahl

Sullivan has been doing great work, in between mean-spirited and unsupportable attacks on any Republicans in the room, in following and publicising what is going on in Iran.
And it is a mistake to lump all of these Muslim countries in as some monolithic bloc, and an even greater mistake to simply decide that it's too hard to figure out, and that therefore Islam is the enemy--we can't even fight that war, much less win it. But if seen as an emerging global struglle between the decent and the monstrous, we find allies in some surprising places. Enemies, too.

Completely agree on all points.

I've been keeping an eye on Sully because the factual Iran reporting has been great. One has to read him while ignoring or filtering out everything else.

391 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:53:07am

re: #384 Son of the Black Dog

Works for me.

392 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:53:31am

re: #372 reine.de.tout

Some of the "tweets" indicated that people were being encouraged to carry the Koran because it was against the law for authorities to shoot somebody who is carrying the Koran.

Lest they drop the Koran, I'm sure.

or the koran takes a bullet.

393 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:53:38am

re: #389 MacDuff

When the French are way out in fron of the POTUS in supporting democracy, we have a problem.....

POTUS is all over being deprived of a nice Daddy.

394 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:53:38am

re: #377 debutaunt

Fox news - French calling for dinnerjacket to step down.

No shit?

395 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:53:41am

re: #341 MandyManners

Fucking bastards.

Of course they are. They've chosen to live by the sword.

There's an old Cretan drinking song that goes like this:

My wealth is spear and sword, the stout shield which protects my flesh; with this I plough, with this I reap, with this I tread the sweet wine of the grape, with this I am the entitled master of the serfs.

(Quoted by John Keegan in A HISTORY OF WARFARE, page 242)


As far as the regime is concerned they are only putting down a bunch of diseased livestock. The regime cannot be persuaded. They can only be destroyed.

396 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:53:47am

Krauthammer says change in Iran would have a dramatic impact in the region.
Syria
Lebanon
Hezbollah
Hamas

Change would be as great as the fall of the USSR, because USSR was supplier and seeder of communism around the world

When the USSR disappeared, all of that communist archipelago disappeared.

All of the radical elements in the M.E. who depend on Iran would be cut off.

This would have a radical impact in Iraq as well.

So sayeth Charles Krauthammer.

This will have radiating effects on the region. We have great stakes in the result of this.

397 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:54:01am

re: #377 debutaunt

Fox news - French calling for dinnerjacket to step down.

When will the regime start blaming France for the unrest?

398 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:54:25am

re: #377 debutaunt

Fox news - French calling for dinnerjacket to step down.

sarkozy for potus
/

399 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:54:33am

re: #387 NelsFree

Vengeance is a trademark of Islam. Justice is a trademark of America.

Ass-kicking is universal.

400 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:54:43am

re: #394 MandyManners

No shit?

Listening to Fox news from the other room. I was stunned too.

401 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:54:50am

re: #389 MacDuff

When the French are way out in fron of the POTUS in supporting democracy, we have a problem.....

I noticed you didn't put any Sarcozy on that one.

/sorry ... right now, I need to find a reason to laugh

402 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:54:51am

re: #394 MandyManners

No shit?

MM ... hahaha ... can you friggin believe it ... Obama will say when it is time to say that ... who in the hell do those french think they are ...

merci beaucoup ... Obama ... wee wee ...

403 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:54:54am

re: #398 nyc redneck

sarkozy for potus
/

His first lady has better fashion sense too.

404 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:55:11am

Time for POTUS to call the mullahs and tell them that we will not stand for mass murder. Then deploy tanks and trucks along the borders and stir up a lot of dust. A few flights toward and along the border to reinforce the point.

This would put tremendous pressure on the mullahs and the Iranian army.

405 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:55:18am

re: #394 MandyManners

No shit?

Protest in suburb of Paris.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

406 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:55:24am

re: #368 kf

Yeah, I've been sending this video to everyone. This is a struggle of humanity against tyranny. And as Americans, not Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans we can all recognize this struggle because our ancestors went through it to give us the freedoms that we have now.

Alternative link on Youtube

restitutor orbis,

What would say to the young woman who's voice is on that video.
Look her in the eye, and say that?
Tell her to die or live in slavery.

407 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:55:41am

re: #376 yma o hyd

Picture of the German Head of state, President Kohler, with a group of Iranian dissidents:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

re: #377 debutaunt

Fox news - French calling for dinnerjacket to step down.

How scr00d are we when the socialists are to the right of us, and the cheese-eaters are out in front of us?

"Stuck in the middle with O".

408 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:55:51am

re: #377 debutaunt

Fox news - French calling for dinnerjacket to step down.

Seems to be accurate?
Wow.

409 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:55:56am

re: #349 alegrias

* * * *
Thank you. I still want Iraqis freed by American blood & treasure, to stand up for fellow freedom fighters in Iraq.

Wah wah wah, I want Iraqis to show some gumption & share the wealth of freedom with their neighbors.

Can they get over their mutual dislike?

410 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:56:05am

re: #397 Sharmuta

When will the regime start blaming France for the unrest?

They can't/ won't (seeing France harbored the Ayatollah lo those many years0 What they CAN say is that the USA pressured France into making the statement!

(only partial //)

411 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:56:25am

Just now on Twitter:

kraussm Martin Luther King, Jr: "The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." #IranElection
less than 10 seconds ago from web

412 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:56:46am

re: #380 sattv4u2
Youre exactly right. And I have no desire to educate you on the facts I know about what is going on and has gone on in Iran. When I read your posts I see someone who is very excited by their opinon of events past and present. I'm ok with that. Most people are like that. But I have no desire to debate it.

413 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:57:07am

re: #396 alegrias

Indeed. Iran isn't just the biggest supplier of weapons to terrorists in the world. It is positioning itself as something of an expansionist, colonizing regional superpower. Its stubborn nuclear ambitions have made it a major threat to the Arab world. The future of the world for the next decades, if not the next century, will be determined in large part by what becomes of the Iranian regime.

414 formercorpsman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:57:21am

re: #389 MacDuff

You read my mind.

As much as I dislike Obama, I have given him a break publicly on a few different things that the right tried to skewer him on.

I'm beginning to think I can't do that now concerning this though.

This is big. this is really big.

In a way, I feel this is a slap for all we have done in the middle east over the past 5 years.

I am glad the French are moving in this direction. But I am totally convinced, the signs these youngsters are marching with, the lives they are giving up, are directly related to the efforts of our own youth spilling their blood on the sands of the middle east.

Standing up for something.

415 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:57:21am

re: #396 alegrias

Krauthammer says change in Iran would have a dramatic impact in the region.
Syria
Lebanon
Hezbollah
Hamas

Change would be as great as the fall of the USSR, because USSR was supplier and seeder of communism around the world

When the USSR disappeared, all of that communist archipelago disappeared.

All of the radical elements in the M.E. who depend on Iran would be cut off.

This would have a radical impact in Iraq as well.

So sayeth Charles Krauthammer.

This will have radiating effects on the region. We have great stakes in the result of this.

Repost from last thread...

In Iran, you win or you die

Everything is on the line in Iran, at present -- not only the future of the Iranian regime, but also of the Middle East, and by extension, the most tangible western interests.

Consider: if the Iranian regime were to fall, by far the largest organized threat to peace in the region would be removed. This includes not only a fairly proximate nuclear threat to Israel (for all we know North Korea's second nuclear test was actually Iran's first), but sponsorship of the most efficient part of the world's Islamist terror apparatus.

Hezbollah and Hamas are both, today, for all practical purposes, Iranian proxies. Through them, and through other channels, the regime of the ayatollahs makes money, materiel, and expertise available to terror cells as far away as Argentina, Sweden, the Philippines.

416 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:57:31am

This is brutal:

RT Iran BBC correspondent (withheld) reports Basiji using "favourite weapon" razors to slash protesters #IranElection #gr88 BRUTAL
417 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:57:32am

re: #408 reine.de.tout

Seems to be accurate?
Wow.

Link on #405

418 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:57:35am

re: #389 MacDuff

When the French are way out in fron of the POTUS in supporting democracy, we have a problem.....

* * * * *
American voters will remember this in 2010.
No profiles in courage amongst the democrats.

419 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:57:57am

He's gonna spread happiness ... he's gonna spread freeeeeedommmmmm ...

/oh, wait ...

420 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:58:02am

re: #411 Dar ul Harb

Just now on Twitter:

I believe that was Dante.

We have it on a t-shirt from the Holocaust Museum in D.C.

421 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:58:15am

re: #418 alegrias

* * * * *
American voters will remember this in 2010.
No profiles in courage amongst the democrats.

Most Democrat voters don't know what the hell is going on the world anyway.

422 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:58:18am

re: #389 MacDuff

When the French are way out in fron of the POTUS in supporting democracy, we have a problem.....

Ha!

re: #407 haakondahl

How scr00d are we when the socialists are to the right of us, and the cheese-eaters are out in front of us?

"Stuck in the middle with O".

423 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:58:25am

re: #396 alegrias

We have great stakes in the result of this.

Leave Obama out of that. The theocracy is at the core of his Plan A, and he hasn't a clue about what a Plan B might look like. That's why he's sucking his thumb.

/other than that ... a thousand updings for that comment!

424 FrogMarch  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:58:28am

re: #375 NY Nana

Here is the latest info from Winston's blog. I wonder if he has slept at all.

BBL

Thanks.

425 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:58:44am

re: #412 justdanny

{sigh}

TRANSLATION

"It's my ball and we either play by my rules or I'm taking it and going home"

426 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:59:01am

These misogynistic rats seem to be targeting women. Its so frustrating...I wish there was more I could do

427 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:59:15am

re: #420 ggt

I believe that was Dante.

We have it on a t-shirt from the Holocaust Museum in D.C.

MLK Jr. quoting Dante?

428 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:59:30am

re: #403 Sharmuta

His first lady has better fashion sense too.

Not to mention higher cheekbones (of which Michelle is WELL aware)

429 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:59:31am

TehranBureau:

From a source in Tehran: allah akbar just started and it's the most intense yet. so surreal.

there's one little boy's voice who i can hear clearly.

it comes from every direction. now it's "ya hossein, mir hossein",end quote

From Omid007: Bassij Millita attacking People at Haft Hooz SQ, Heavy Clashes Just Strated...

430 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:59:34am

Well, Joe Biden said Obama would be tested with in six months, tested in a BIG way... Biden was 100 percent correct... and...

Barry Obama failed the test.

431 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:59:43am

re: #403 Sharmuta

His first lady has better fashion sense too.

* * * *
Like Iran's gonna respect French First Lady, Madame Lady Godiva!

432 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:59:59am

re: #381 Last Mohican

Much as i would applaud a dismantling of the Mullahcracy - i don't see it happening, no matter the outcome of the protests.

What is eminently possible is that the rift between the Mullahs will widen, that Khamenei will get the chop - thanks to Rafsanjani, who alledgedly has sided with Mousavi.
This might mean that there will be some more freedom for Iran, but it will still be under the auspices of the Mullahs.

With all the bloodshed going on right now, we have no information what the 'Guardian Council', of which Rafsanjani is the head, will do.
All we know is that Grand Ayatollah Motazeri (who has been living under house arrest for some years now) has called the election a fraud, and that Ayatollah Khatami is siding with Mousavi.
And we also know that Rafsanjani does, to put it mildly, dislike Ahmadinejad.

But we have no idea what is going on in the army command, nor in the Guards command.
There is bound to be much going on behind closed doors - where twitters have no entry.
So all we can do is pray for the dissidents - and hope that the rift will be deep enough to swallow Ahmadinejad and Khamenei ...

433 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:00:30am

re: #396 alegrias

We all certainly realize that change came to Iraq before this revolution started in Iran. Just determining who threw the rock that started the ripples.

434 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:00:30am

re: #430 Walter L. Newton

Well, Joe Biden said Obama would be tested with in six months, tested in a BIG way... Biden was 100 percent correct... and...

Barry Obama failed the test.

WLN ... and this is no joking ... pick a test ... dang how much crap has happened in such a short time ...

435 rhythman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:00:46am

has anyone watched the youtube video of a young Iranian woman dying, dying for freedom for her country. Why in the world, someone tell me, if our president not doing ANYTHING? Is this still America? My G-d, people are dying for their right to be free. I am so afraid for the future of our country.

436 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:00:47am

re: #430 Walter L. Newton

Well, Joe Biden said Obama would be tested with in six months, tested in a BIG way... Biden was 100 percent correct... and...

Barry Obama failed the test.

Give him a break. He has to deal with Father's Day this weekend.

437 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:00:47am

re: #312 restitutor orbis

I have a video to show you while you eat your popocorn. I'll let Mandy Manners speak for me as to what type of person you are.

438 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:01:34am

re: #393 debutaunt

POTUS is all over being deprived of a nice Daddy.

and yesterday he whined that fox news did not say nice things abt. him.
he does have the victim mentality down.
it is the foundation for the chip on his shoulder .

439 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:01:51am

re: #409 MandyManners

Can they get over their mutual dislike?

* * * * *
I don't know! But Iraq's president Al Maliki took refuge in Iran when Saddam's regime was after him--surely he must feel some reciprocal action or words are in order.

You'd think fraternal Shiites would reach out to each other, especially having the US standing in Iraq might stiffen Al Maliki's spine.

440 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:01:58am

re: #427 Dar ul Harb

MLK Jr. quoting Dante?

dunno --It's been used by a lot of people.

441 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:02:02am

re: #387 NelsFree

Vengeance is a trademark of Islam. Justice is a trademark of America.

Cute. Sorry bro, but if that was my sister there would be dead bodies on the other side.

442 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:02:07am

IMO this would be a very good time to nail several key buildings with Tomahawk missiles - mainly the barrack/hotels being used to house the foreign thugs brought in to back the regime and the revolutionary guards etc... Take the gloves off and call it "payback" for the IEDs and other weapons and fighters etc Iran has been sending to Iraq the last several years... but then that's just wishful thinking since our current POTUS is pissing himself over the situation and can barely scrape together a few words that mean literally nothing and can't be counted on to do the opposite of what he says like when he talks about everything else...


Published "Babar the Jihadi" the other day...
[Link: www.createspace.com...]
Also available on Amazon.com etc... buy a copy, send it to your favorite state sponsor of terrorism because you know someone there will be forced to watch it before blacklisting it... etc...

443 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:02:10am

PRESIDENT OBAMA

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE AT LEAST ONE PRE-CONDITION NOW!

444 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:02:37am

scorpiovan: CNN shot stop calling him "supreme leader". Khamenei is the supreme murderer. #iranelection #cnn #iran


Zippedidoodah: RT: 1.44pm via NIAC, translation of the chants: "I welcome death, I welcome death, but not subjugation."

445 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:02:41am

re: #401 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I noticed you didn't put any Sarcozy on that one.

/sorry ... right now, I need to find a reason to laugh


See my #333, please!

446 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:03:03am

re: #407 haakondahl

How scr00d are we when the socialists are to the right of us, and the cheese-eaters are out in front of us?

"Stuck in the middle with O".

Ahem - I believe Germany has a conservative as head of state - they have some odd way of selecting said head of state, but he's no socialist, iirc.

But otherwise, yep, agree.

LLL, from what I've seen on the Grauniad's comments page, actually do like dinnerjacket ... because he's working class ...

447 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:03:19am

re: #426 MrPaulRevere

These misogynistic rats seem to be targeting women. Its so frustrating...I wish there was more I could do

It's frustrating- I wish I could get them weapons, or fight alongside them.

But maybe this is a fight they're suppose to fight on their own....

448 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:03:23am

re: #443 sattv4u2

PRESIDENT OBAMA

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE AT LEAST ONE PRE-CONDITION NOW!

sattv ...NO! .. I Won sucker ... I make the rules ... you watch ...

/smartass reponse but I don't think he cares what you think ... really ...

449 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:03:31am

re: #444 reine.de.tout

scorpiovan: CNN shot stop calling him "supreme leader". Khamenei is the supreme murderer. #iranelection #cnn #iran

Zippedidoodah: RT: 1.44pm via NIAC, translation of the chants: "I welcome death, I welcome death, but not subjugation."

Give me liberty, or give me death.

450 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:03:53am

re: #437 BigPapa

I have a video to show you while you eat your popocorn. I'll let Mandy Manners speak for me as to what type of person you are.

no facebook account for me. Know if the video is anywhere else/ I ant to be just as outraged as you all are, ((actually want to be MORE outraged than I currently am))

451 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:03:59am

re: #435 rhythman

has anyone watched the youtube video of a young Iranian woman dying, dying for freedom for her country. Why in the world, someone tell me, if our president not doing ANYTHING? Is this still America? My G-d, people are dying for their right to be free. I am so afraid for the future of our country.

A picture speaks a 1000 words. That video could do more damage to the Mullahs than weapons of conventional warfare.

452 poteen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:04:05am

re: #444 reine.de.tout

scorpiovan: CNN shot stop calling him "supreme leader". Khamenei is the supreme murderer. #iranelection #cnn #iran

Zippedidoodah: RT: 1.44pm via NIAC, translation of the chants: "I welcome death, I welcome death, but not subjugation."

The Iranian Patrick Henry. Good for him!

453 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:04:05am
DeborahUSA RT RT from Iran: Hospitals have Besiji, go to embassies instead, if Besiji attacked them it would be an act of war. #iranelection #gr88
less than 5 seconds ago from web
454 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:04:14am

re: #425 sattv4u2

This will be my last reponse to you on this subject.

I have very close very dear friends in Iran. Some on the left and some on the right. One the daughter of a thrice jailed opponent of the islamic government. One the daughter of a mullah on the guardian coiuncil. To highlight just two.

Do I claim to have a unique perspective on Iran? Yes, I do. Do I wish to share fine details of that perspective here at LGF? No. I dont.

455 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:04:15am

re: #378 MacDuff

It's a bit ironic that where people are risking their lives for "Hope and Change", President Hopenchange has fallen mute,

* * * *
This week's democrat written Senate apology for US slavery & upcoming plans for reparations for slavery means that's the REAL change he had in mind--transfer payments & higher taxes.

456 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:04:54am

re: #404 Edgesitter

Time for POTUS to call the mullahs and tell them that we will not stand for mass murder. Then deploy tanks and trucks along the borders and stir up a lot of dust. A few flights toward and along the border to reinforce the point.

This would put tremendous pressure on the mullahs and the Iranian army.

I disagree with using military leverage, because unlike public statements, that actually *would* constitute removing the struggle from the hands of the Iranian people. Iran may well turn out to be the best result in this region, because the people will be heavily invested in their own freedom. Of course, it could all go horribly wrong. But while I do not think that our tanks or anybody else's tanks should line up at the border (and usually I think that this is just fine), we certainly should be issuing unambiguous statements of support for the people of Iran. We have moved past the stage where we should be issuin "freedom and elections" speeches (which we just passed in the House and Senate, with language similar to what several of us here put up within HOURS), and with the regime spilling blood in planned operations, it is time to come out and say what the French (can you believe it?) and Germans (Ach!) already have.

457 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:05:04am

Small US flags are going up in the Middle East, says Rina Ninen (sp?)

Hezbolla flags coming down.

foxnews

458 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:05:09am

TehranBureau:

from FB friend citing twitterers and phone calls directly from Iran: Several reports from Iran right now: ALLAAAAAHO AKBAR!

WHOLE city is shaking with very loud screams from rooftops. Their loud voices calling only for God is filled with fear, hatred, and hope.

IranElection09:

Hospitals in Tehran are NOT safe ppl disappearing from them basijis there, take injured to embassies #iranelection
459 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:05:37am

re: #457 alegrias

Small US flags are going up in the Middle East, says Rina Ninen (sp?)

Hezbolla flags coming down.

foxnews

Really?

460 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:05:44am

re: #454 justdanny

This will be my last reponse to you on this subject.

I have very close very dear friends in Iran. Some on the left and some on the right. One the daughter of a thrice jailed opponent of the islamic government. One the daughter of a mullah on the guardian coiuncil. To highlight just two.

Do I claim to have a unique perspective on Iran? Yes, I do. Do I wish to share fine details of that perspective here at LGF? No. I dont.

And you are the ONLY person on LGF that has Iranian freinds, both in country and out.


OOOOOOkkkkkaaaaayyyy ! !

feh

461 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:06:00am

Tehranbureau:
'WHOLE city is shaking with very loud screams from rooftops. Their loud voices calling only for God is filled with fear, hatred, and hope.'

462 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:06:08am
2amlastcall RT @IranRiggedElect: :( eye witness report milita using Ambulances to lure ppl & thn shoot @ them near roodaki & azarbayjan st #IranElection
less than 10 seconds ago from UberTwitter
463 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:06:21am

re: #455 alegrias

* * * *
This week's democrat written Senate apology for US slavery & upcoming plans for reparations for slavery means that's the REAL change he had in mind--transfer payments & higher taxes.

Don't forget priorities, $1B in the warfighting bill for Cash for Clunkers.

We've got real priorities to deal with, people dying for liberty?

A distraction for the real agenda.

464 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:06:21am

re: #457 alegrias

Small US flags are going up in the Middle East, says Rina Ninen (sp?)

Hezbolla flags coming down.

foxnews


any specificity as to where?

465 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:06:57am

Iran militia kills girl standing next to her father. (Graphic content warning.)

466 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:06:57am

re: #404 Edgesitter

Time for POTUS to call the mullahs and tell them that we will not stand for mass murder. Then deploy tanks and trucks along the borders and stir up a lot of dust. A few flights toward and along the border to reinforce the point.

This would put tremendous pressure on the mullahs and the Iranian army.

* * * *
IRAQ'S POTUS Al Maliki could do this.
Afghanistan's POTUS could make some noise on the other side of Iran.

Afghanistan & Iraq have the mullacracy surrounded!

467 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:06:58am

re: #456 haakondahl

I did not mean that the US should be poised to intervene. But the threat of intervention would lock down the Iranian military at a time when the mullahs most need them.

468 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:07:00am

re: #404 Edgesitter

Time for POTUS to call the mullahs and tell them that we will not stand for mass murder. Then deploy tanks and trucks along the borders and stir up a lot of dust. A few flights toward and along the border to reinforce the point.

This would put tremendous pressure on the mullahs and the Iranian army.

Perhaps a week late on that one. Last week at just about this time, Obama was "excited" by Iran's robust election debate which was testament to his cluelessness.

I hate to say this, I really do, but I really believe that he's put his money on the Mullahs and his reticence stems from the fact that he wants to be able to maintain some sort of relationship with Iran after this "unpleasantness" passes.

I don't think you can loose much by always betting on the cynicism of this administration.

469 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:07:27am

re: #459 Sharmuta

Really?

* * * *
That's what the Fox News reporter Nina Rinen (sp?) said.

470 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:07:29am

Tweeted by stopAhmadi;

Youtube Video
471 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:07:51am

persiangirll: RT@lotfanRT: friend arrested at check point. Thrown into a truck, beaten, but a Sebah soldier secretly let the arrested go #IranElection

lucasthorpe: @oxfordgirl Vid evidence now coming out showing how much bigger the protest was than it was rprted 2b all day. #iranelection #gr88 #cnnfail

MRGBRJMHRIESLMI: all taboos in iran are broken thanks khamenei's stupidity-for first time after rev ppl arent afraid to say margbarkhamenei #iranelection

472 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:08:03am

re: #450 sattv4u2

Here it is on liveleak: Warning Graphic!
Young girl being killed by plainclothes

Liveleak Video
473 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:08:17am

damn we need a strong responsible pro-democracy potus right now.
mccain would have been such a better man for the job than o.

474 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:08:29am

Ya'll have a good day.

475 anova  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:08:44am

re: #381 Last Mohican

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.


Staged election

476 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:08:56am

re: #472 Killgore Trout

Here it is on liveleak: Warning Graphic!
Young girl being killed by plainclothes

Liveleak Video


Thanks Kilgore. Not that I wanted to see it, but I needed too!

Thanks again

477 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:10:13am

Twitter sez:

xpla_chris CNN reports are getting better #iranelection
less than 20 seconds ago from web
478 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:10:37am

re: #441 VegasRick

Cute. Sorry bro, but if that was my sister there would be dead bodies on the other side.

Same here. My post was not meant as a jab at you. I addressed the concept of vengeance vs. justice. It should be remembered that, after the bloodshed, justice must be established so as to allow peace. This is the time of disorder; what follows must have respect for law. There are passages in the Koran that allow for vengeance (Saudi Arabian law lists specific amounts of blood money for atonement for murder). Republican Democracy is better than that. We can only hope that the Revolutionaries in Iran look to the UNited States for a system of government to replace the extant theocracy.

479 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:10:46am

re: #470 yma o hyd

Tweeted by stopAhmadi;

[Video]

Too quick on the send-button!

This is a girl reading a poem - while people shout from the rooftops 'allah akbar', in the night.

480 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:11:52am

The country that kills it's own women and children kills it's future.

481 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:12:23am

Tehranbureau:
'FB report: shouts of Allah o Akbar in holy city of Mashhad "explosive" -- loudest it has ever been.'

Remeber - these protests are not just happening in Tehran, they have been happening in lots of other cities in iran as well!

482 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:12:48am

re: #468 MacDuff

Think of it as tyrannophilia in action.

483 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:12:49am

So far in this series of protests the Tree of Liberty in Iran has only been nourished by the blood of citizens. No blood of tyrants...yet.

484 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:13:21am

Thank you all for your kind words........

Look, I'm not saying what is happening is a bad thing......a howling mob stringing up Achanachamadman and the mullahs would suit me just fine. But lets face it, if the revolutionary guards and the qods, or whatever are shooting at people who are throwing molotov cocktails at them, then they probably are not too worried about planting IED's that kill OUR people. This chaos is to our advantage, because war may now come to the enemy's house.
6 months from now when the new leader of Iran is calling us the Great Satan and unleashing the Hezbos on the Israelis, I will be here to say "I told you so"

485 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:13:23am

Well, a CNN contributor is calling on Obama to support the protesters. He's going to loose his white house press pass...

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

486 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:13:24am

re: #336 realwest

Sigh. One last time my friend - WHO is gonna lead Iran after the revolution throws out the Mullahs?

Isn't the son of the shah and his family working on returning? Would he be named nominal head of state, and then get a parliamentary type of system up and running?

487 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:13:40am

re: #471 reine.de.tout

friend arrested at check point. Thrown into a truck, beaten, but a Sebah soldier secretly let the arrested go

THAT is interesting!

There are more besides the ones who were arrested last week. What'll happen as things get bloodier? Desertions? Defections? Hmmm.

488 Edgesitter  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:14:01am

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

Well, a CNN contributor is calling on Obama to support the protesters. He's going to loose his white house press pass...

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Heh

489 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:14:14am

re: #486 Gang of One

Isn't the son of the shah and his family working on returning? Would he be named nominal head of state, and then get a parliamentary type of system up and running?

A Pahlavi returning wouldn't be a good idea. Iran needs to look forward not back.

490 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:14:38am

'reports flooding in massive rebellion in Mashad, city alive with screams of Allah Akbar. Mullahs hand in hand with ppl. #iranelection #gr88'
[Link: twitter.com...]

(My emphasis)

491 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:14:43am

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

Well, a CNN contributor is calling on Obama to support the protesters. He's going to loose his white house press pass...

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Maybe that was was Twitter was reporting earlier...

492 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:14:44am

Protesters outside the White House.

493 shanec99  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:14:44am

The only people who Ahmedinejab inspires are American leftists. Durintg February when I was in east Africa Ahmedinejab came to the Comoros and campaigned against the people of Mayotte who were to vote in a referendum in March to break away from the Comoran government led by a cleric who trained in Iran.
The people of Mayotte handed him and his Islamic cronies a stinging rebuke and voted to cement themselves under the France's pro-American government.
The vote.... this is the important part 94% to 5% to break from a government led by a pro Iranian cleric to join France led by a pro-American President.
Very little was said about this in the MSM, but the people of Mayotte are grateful to wester democrcies. by the way Mayotte is a majority Muslim island.
[Link: www.france24.com...]

494 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:14:54am

re: #489 jcm

A Pahlavi returning wouldn't be a good idea. Iran needs to look forward not back.

where BING meets O!
upding

495 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:15:19am

re: #487 pre-Boomer Marine brat

THAT is interesting!

There are more besides the ones who were arrested last week. What'll happen as things get bloodier? Desertions? Defections? Hmmm.

Glad you noticed.
I'm just reading these as they go by and posting what seems interesting . . . no time to comment.

496 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:15:42am

Daniel Pipes: "Ahmadinejad or Mousavi?

Pipes had originally opined that it might be better for the world if Ahmadinejad stayed in power, because Mousavi has the same genocidal nuclear ambitions as Ahmadinejad, but he's not as brash about declaring them, and that might prevent the world from properly acting against them.

Now Pipes is changing his mind:

The startling events in Iran in the week since the election, however, have transformed Mousavi from a hack Islamist politician into the unlikely symbol of dreams for a more secular and free Iran. In the words of Abbas Milani, my colleague at the Hoover Institution, "If Ahmadinejad survives, it will be on the back of a Tiananmen-style crackdown. If Mousavi prevails, it will be on a wave of reformist sentiment." While that reformist sentiment may not shake the regime and is unlikely to stop the nuclear weapons program, it does hold out hope for substantial change.

Accordingly, I no longer want Ahmadinejad to serve as president for a second term but prefer Mousavi in that position. Better yet, of course, would be for neither of them to hold power but for the entire fetid Islamic Republic of Iran to collapse. While confident that process is underway. I have no idea if it is weeks or decades ahead. Whatever it requires, Mousavi as president hastens the process.

497 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:16:11am

re: #491 Dar ul Harb

Apparently not, it's a written commentary piece.

498 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:16:27am

You just know that asshole in the white house who promised Hope and Change is gonna take credit for the change in Iran once this all blows over.

Yet while it was going on, he did not give the people of Iran anything to Hope for.

C'mon Barry, throw them a bone!

499 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:16:30am

re: #484 restitutor orbis

[GAZE]

Actually, I'm kind of doubting you'll be here in six months.

500 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:16:38am

Hill had elbow surgery?

501 justdanny  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:16:41am

The shot, dead and dieing litter the ground.

WARNING, VERY GRAPHIC. facebook account required

video

502 kf  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:16:51am

Do you guys really have to turn EVERYTHING into something about Obama? I despise Obama's policies as much as the next guy, but here is what would happen if Obama took a harder stand: Khamanei would have his state-run television stations and his state-run newspapers blast propaganda about how the protesters are being supported, aided, and supplied by The Great Satan and this will result in even more bloodshed as the Basij will be even more ruthless. There are plenty of reports of the Iranian military commanders being relieved of command because they refuse to act against citizens of their own country. If those commanders are led to believe that the US is behind these protests, they could be willing to act in violence against their fellow citizens.

So please I implore you to read up a little, get a clue, and give the partisanship a break for 30 seconds in your life. We need to stand together as Americans against this, not bicker about pointless crap.

503 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:16:52am

re: #492 debutaunt

Protesters outside the White House.

Aren't there always protesters outside the White House?

504 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:17:05am

re: #496 Last Mohican

Daniel Pipes: "Ahmadinejad or Mousavi?

Pipes had originally opined that it might be better for the world if Ahmadinejad stayed in power, because Mousavi has the same genocidal nuclear ambitions as Ahmadinejad, but he's not as brash about declaring them, and that might prevent the world from properly acting against them.

Now Pipes is changing his mind:

Reform is in the wind, Mousavi can be caretaker of the reform or get passed by.

505 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:17:06am

re: #484 restitutor orbis

Thank you all for your kind words........

Look, I'm not saying what is happening is a bad thing......a howling mob stringing up Achanachamadman and the mullahs would suit me just fine. But lets face it, if the revolutionary guards and the qods, or whatever are shooting at people who are throwing molotov cocktails at them, then they probably are not too worried about planting IED's that kill OUR people. This chaos is to our advantage, because war may now come to the enemy's house.
6 months from now when the new leader of Iran is calling us the Great Satan and unleashing the Hezbos on the Israelis, I will be here to say "I told you so"

You equated the protestors to enemies of the US, and you dropped them into the same bucket as the terror elements of Iran. And you wish death on the whole bunch of them.

We know exactly what you said, and there was not ONE ounce of support for your statement. You made yourself very clear the first time, and more so this time.

Americans don't wish death upon the innocent citizens of a country, even if the leadership of the country are such as Iran.

Your basic comment was that you didn't care if they all killed themselves.

Jerk.

506 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:17:35am

re: #492 debutaunt

Protesters outside the White House.

Really?

507 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:17:41am

These people are not supporting Mousavi ,per se. They are supporting his platform, which is decidedly different than the man. Politics.

508 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:17:43am

re: #499 NelsFree

[GAZE]

Actually, I'm kind of doubting you'll be here in six months hours.


ftfy
I ain't Kreskin, but I can "see" a meltdown coming a mile away

509 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:17:55am

I know one thing, this ain't no tea party.

510 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:17:58am

re: #484 restitutor orbis

Go fuck yourself.

511 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:18:10am

re: #502 kf

Yes.

512 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:18:30am

re: #490 yma o hyd

'reports flooding in massive rebellion in Mashad, city alive with screams of Allah Akbar. Mullahs hand in hand with ppl. #iranelection #gr88'
[Link: twitter.com...]

(My emphasis)

I wonder if the regime has enough hizbullah thugs to go around.

513 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:18:53am

re: #496 Last Mohican

Accordingly, I no longer want Ahmadinejad to serve as president for a second term but prefer Mousavi in that position. Better yet, of course, would be for neither of them to hold power but for the entire fetid Islamic Republic of Iran to collapse. While confident that process is underway. I have no idea if it is weeks or decades ahead. Whatever it requires, Mousavi as president hastens the process.


Kudos to him for changing his mind. I haven't paid much attention to the right wing pundits on this one because I think much of their initial reactions were off base. It's nice to see some corrections.

514 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:19:02am

re: #502 kf

Khamanei would have his state-run television stations and his state-run newspapers blast propaganda about how the protesters are being supported, aided, and supplied by The Great Satan

You're late to the party. Thats already been happening

515 anova  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:19:24am

re: #472 Killgore Trout

Obama should see this video, and hopefully get of the fence and do something to overthrow the Iranian regime.

516 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:19:32am

re: #502 kf

Do you guys really have to turn EVERYTHING into something about Obama? I despise Obama's policies as much as the next guy, but here is what would happen if Obama took a harder stand: Khamanei would have his state-run television stations and his state-run newspapers blast propaganda about how the protesters are being supported, aided, and supplied by The Great Satan and this will result in even more bloodshed as the Basij will be even more ruthless. There are plenty of reports of the Iranian military commanders being relieved of command because they refuse to act against citizens of their own country. If those commanders are led to believe that the US is behind these protests, they could be willing to act in violence against their fellow citizens.

So please I implore you to read up a little, get a clue, and give the partisanship a break for 30 seconds in your life. We need to stand together as Americans against this, not bicker about pointless crap.

um ... uh ... Obama turns everything into something about him ...

We are all Americans ... I want a Pro-America President ...

/not speaking for anyone else ... so just to make that clear ...

517 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:19:33am

re: #484 restitutor orbis

Pay attention to what is happening, the videos, the tweets.
or
STFU.

518 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:20:15am

re: #502 kf

Do you guys really have to turn EVERYTHING into something about Obama? I despise Obama's policies as much as the next guy, but here is what would happen if Obama took a harder stand: Khamanei would have his state-run television stations and his state-run newspapers blast propaganda about how the protesters are being supported, aided, and supplied by The Great Satan and this will result in even more bloodshed as the Basij will be even more ruthless. There are plenty of reports of the Iranian military commanders being relieved of command because they refuse to act against citizens of their own country. If those commanders are led to believe that the US is behind these protests, they could be willing to act in violence against their fellow citizens.

So please I implore you to read up a little, get a clue, and give the partisanship a break for 30 seconds in your life. We need to stand together as Americans against this, not bicker about pointless crap.

HE ALREADY DID THAT BEFORE THE FIRST PROTEST BARELY GOT STARTED. What don't you understand about that. And they have gone on blaming the west throughout the week. All the time Obama has said he wasn't going to get involved.

So, tell me, what difference is it going to make?

519 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:20:26am

re: #510 MandyManners

Go fuck yourself.

Ya' need cojones to do that........

520 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:20:34am

re: #496 Last Mohican

Daniel Pipes: "Ahmadinejad or Mousavi?

Pipes had originally opined that it might be better for the world if Ahmadinejad stayed in power, because Mousavi has the same genocidal nuclear ambitions as Ahmadinejad, but he's not as brash about declaring them, and that might prevent the world from properly acting against them.

Now Pipes is changing his mind:

I suppose I should be pleased to see the esteemed scholar willing to learn, but somehow it falls a bit flat. Welcome, Dr. Dan, we've been waiting for you.

521 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:20:45am

Twitter:

melinca Rt Iran:WE CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH, MULTIPLE SOURCES CONFIRM: BASIJ ARE AT HOSPITALS. GO TO EMBASSIES. HOSPITAL = DEATH #iranelection #gr88
less than 20 seconds ago from web
522 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:20:46am

From TehranBureau:

Omid007 says: People reportedly push back militia in Gisha

Seems things are perhaps slowing a bit, night-time, I guess people are trying to get home.

523 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:21:00am

re: #506 VegasRick

Really?

On Foxnews now.

524 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:21:24am

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

Well, a CNN contributor is calling on Obama to support the protesters. He's going to loose his white house press pass...

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

He'll only support the protesters when it's clear they're going to win. Not a moment sooner.

525 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:21:27am

re: #502 kf

The time to stand on the sidelines and do and say nothing is long past. People are being murdered by their own government simply because they want democracy.

All we have been hearing about Obama is what a great leader he is and how he inspires people. Now is the time to put his money where his mouth is.

FAIL.

526 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:21:35am

[Link: twitter.com...]
'RT RT from iran: confirmed - Riots in Tabriz, Mashad, Isfahan, Ahwaz - Gov using violence - #Iranelection '

and we've had reports from demos in Shiraz as well.

527 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:21:41am

re: #498 Racer X

You just know that asshole in the white house who promised Hope and Change is gonna take credit for the change in Iran once this all blows over.

Yet while it was going on, he did not give the people of Iran anything to Hope for.

C'mon Barry, throw them a bone!

the people of iran won't forget o's cowardice.
they were calling for help and he turned away.
he set the world up on hope and change.
he is just a snake oil salesman,
good at selling the product he has never tasted and doesn't believe in.

528 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:21:44am

re: #502 kf

We need to stand together as Americans against this,

And BTW ,, Obama is the voice of America in this matter. It is HE who needs to tell the world that America is against this

So far ,,, nada.... SO ,,, ,as to your original complaint ,, THATS why "really have to turn EVERYTHING THIS into something about Obama

529 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:22:18am

re: #502 kf

Do you guys really have to turn EVERYTHING into something about Obama? I despise Obama's policies as much as the next guy, but here is what would happen if Obama took a harder stand: Khamanei would have his state-run television stations and his state-run newspapers blast propaganda about how the protesters are being supported, aided, and supplied by The Great Satan and this will result in even more bloodshed as the Basij will be even more ruthless. There are plenty of reports of the Iranian military commanders being relieved of command because they refuse to act against citizens of their own country. If those commanders are led to believe that the US is behind these protests, they could be willing to act in violence against their fellow citizens.

So please I implore you to read up a little, get a clue, and give the partisanship a break for 30 seconds in your life. We need to stand together as Americans against this, not bicker about pointless crap.

I got a tingle up my leg from reading that.

530 NelsFree  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:22:55am

re: #508 sattv4u2

ftfy
I ain't Kreskin, but I can "see" a meltdown coming a mile away

Thanks, bro! Get the popcorn! Who's grille is hot!? I'm fixing lemonade!
/

531 poteen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:23:20am

re: #472 Killgore Trout

Here it is on liveleak: Warning Graphic!
Young girl being killed by plainclothes


Hard to watch. But the basiji have blown it now. This isn't riots, it's civil war.
Don't much give a hoot what is said, by Potus or anyone, and I'm sure no Iranian wants U.S. troops in their streets, but it's time to choose a side and arm them so they can shoot back. The Ghandi approach won't work there.
//Don't waste a crisis' opportunity'.

532 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:23:28am

re: #492 debutaunt

Protesters outside the White House.


maybe he should swat a fly for them.

533 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:23:29am

re: #520 haakondahl

I suppose I should be pleased to see the esteemed scholar willing to learn, but somehow it falls a bit flat. Welcome, Dr. Dan, we've been waiting for you.

My opinion: Pipes kind of blew it. He knows something about Iranian's politics, and his point about Mousavi having the same evil goals as Ahmadinejad was a very important one. But you just don't go saying something like "I hope Ahmadinejad stays in power, it would be better for the world." I mean, in the 1930's, would it be okay to say "I hate Hitler, but I hope he stays in power, because the other alternative is just as evil but more restrained in showing it"? No--you find a better way to express what you mean.

534 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:23:40am

re: #527 nyc redneck

the people of iran won't forget o's cowardice.
they were calling for help and he turned away.
he set the world up on hope and change.
he is just a snake oil salesman,
good at selling the product he has never tasted and doesn't believe in.

Wow. What a great post!

535 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:24:26am

re: #534 Racer X

Wow. What a great post!

Poetry, it is.

536 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:24:29am

Is this true?

'ONFIRMED: Canadian Embassy is NOT accepting injured protesters! #iranelection (via @lotfan)'
(iran09)

537 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:24:32am

Stone throwing Iran protesters shot.

Youtube Video
538 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:24:44am

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

539 DEZes  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:25:00am

re: #510 MandyManners

Go fuck yourself.

You always find the right words. ;)

540 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:25:42am

'Cell phones and Satellite TV's have been all shut down #iranelection #gr88 (vai @lotfan)'
from iran 09

541 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:25:47am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

Can't afford to insult the Mullahs in case they retain control, might set back the unconditionally talks.

542 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:25:56am

re: #450 sattv4u2

I don't know, I think somebody else posted it. It's graphic, bloody, real time, and it will make your blood boil. Especially after reading comments from somebody so ignorant.

543 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:26:03am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

Only because the government prevented the scheduled mass rally in the square itself, per reports. There are still protesters getting shot and killed.

544 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:26:25am

re: #525 Racer X

All we have been hearing about Obama is what a great leader he is and how he inspires people. Now is the time to put his money where his mouth is.


Actually Obama is a great leader who actually does inspire people.

Unfortunately Obama and the people that he leads and inspires are all a bunch of zeroes.

545 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:26:32am

re: #536 yma o hyd

Is this true?

'ONFIRMED: Canadian Embassy is NOT accepting injured protesters! #iranelection (via @lotfan)'
(iran09)

Hm.
Related?

Phyre777: RT:Canadians & others - call Foreign Office to request opening of Embassy [no phone numbers allowed] #iranelection #iran
546 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:26:43am

And "disappeared"....

547 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:26:51am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

I saw a 'tweet" go by calling Fox "liars" for that one.

548 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:26:55am

re: #510 MandyManners
Oh, I get it....Mousavi nut-hangers need not apply.

549 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:27:04am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

The White House obviously believes unreservedly what the Supreme Leader says - they never heard of twitter in the White House ...

550 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:27:10am

re: #541 jcm

Can't afford to insult the Mullahs in case they retain control, might set back the unconditionally talks.

What about insulting the electorate? Obvious toting of the (Mullah's) party line. When such visual proof of the opposite is all over the internet.

551 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:27:26am

re: #484 restitutor orbis


6 months from now when the new leader of Iran is calling us the Great Satan and unleashing the Hezbos on the Israelis, I will be here to say "I told you so"

If you're even still here.

552 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:27:30am

No one is saying Obama needs to send in the Marines. No one is saying Obama needs to declare his support for any Iranian politician.

But jeez-louise man, say something to give the PEOPLE of Iran something to Hope for. Let them know that we support their desire for a free democracy. Let them know that if they elect leaders that desire peace with America THERE WILL BE PEACE!

553 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:27:36am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

Tell the White House that was NON blood spurting from that young womens throat

554 skywarner  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:27:48am

re: #538 ggt

If that's the case, then our very own "Supreme Leader" apparently has too big of a hit on his hash pipe today...

All one has to do is to surf the web for all of about 3 seconds to find the VIDEO EVIDENCE that scores of Iranians have been KILLED by the mad mullahs' security thugs.

I don't believe I'm saying this, but even Joe Biden would do a better job at this stage than the "O" could ever dream of accomplishing. He's in over his head.

555 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:27:50am

re: #541 jcm

Can't afford to insult the Mullahs in case they retain control, might set back the unconditionally talks.

jcm ... or the "Brothers" ... and I ain't talking about JayZ and crew ...

556 sngnsgt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:28:12am

The 0 cannot be disturbed by such trivial things as this. He does, after all, have to take his own family to Sunday services.

557 shanec99  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:28:35am

An African aquaintance said this to me: "That nastly little dictator from Iran eats with his left hand."
It was most revealing what low esteem the current Iranian dictator is held in by everyone excepts the fanatics at Hisbollah, Hamas and American leftists.

558 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:28:44am

'Australian Embassy reportedly accepting injured: No. 13, 23rd Street, Khalid Islambuli Ave - Telephone+98 21 8872 4456'
(Tehranbureau)

Good for you, Aussies!

559 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:28:59am

re: #533 Last Mohican

My opinion: Pipes kind of blew it. He knows something about Iranian's politics, and his point about Mousavi having the same evil goals as Ahmadinejad was a very important one. But you just don't go saying something like "I hope Ahmadinejad stays in power, it would be better for the world." I mean, in the 1930's, would it be okay to say "I hate Hitler, but I hope he stays in power, because the other alternative is just as evil but more restrained in showing it"? No--you find a better way to express what you mean.

With his admittedly in-depth knowledge, he fell into an out-of-depth trap; contrariness to prove superiority. At least he has the scrotal fortitude to climb down.

560 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:29:02am

Photos from Iran

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

561 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:29:15am

re: #550 ggt

What about insulting the electorate? Obvious toting of the (Mullah's) party line. When such visual proof of the opposite is all over the internet.

Rabbit Bait school of dialogue.
When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that's the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.

562 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:29:30am

re: #552 Racer X

No one is saying Obama needs to send in the Marines. No one is saying Obama needs to declare his support for any Iranian politician.

But jeez-louise man, say something to give the PEOPLE of Iran something to Hope for. Let them know that we support their desire for a free democracy. Let them know that if they elect leaders that desire peace with America THERE WILL BE PEACE!

How about supporting ideals Americans believe to be universal- like free and fair elections, and freedom of speech?

563 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:30:01am

re: #502 kf

So please I implore you to read up a little, get a clue, and give the partisanship a break for 30 seconds in your life.

First of all, then was uncalled for. You sounded like Cato's sock puppet there.

I have thought all along that Obama would be wrong to do anything overtly interventional, like sending supplies into the protesters. I have been thinking that he should have spoken out more strongly than he did, in a major press conference from behind a podium, instead of in a few watered-down words while taking questions at some other event.

Now I'm thinking that would have been a mistake. Perhaps he was consciously avoiding creating a video bite that the mullahs could play over and over again on TV, thereby painting the insurrection as a Western-instigated operation. I'd like to believe that Obama was thinking carefully about the dangers of giving the mullahs their video bite.

I'd like to believe that, but I don't. If he really did say something about the "encouraging signs" that the regime was starting to acknowledge the concerns of the protesters, even as the regime was gunning down unarmed people in the streets, then I think he has no underlying goal other than sucking up to the regime.

564 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:30:02am

re: #553 sattv4u2

Tell the White House that was NON blood spurting from that young womens throat

Yeah - and she is obviously NON- dead!

Gah!

565 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:30:19am

re: #562 Sharmuta

How about supporting ideals Americans believe to be universal- like free and fair elections, and freedom of speech?

What are you, some kind of leftist?

566 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:30:51am

Well, I'm exhausted.

It's amazing to me that we can see and hear history as it's being made, just a few minutes of delay.

Simply amazing.
And we don't need CNN or FoxNews.

567 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:31:13am

re: #366 alegrias

* * * *
Imagine what a peaceful, NON terrorist exporting Iran would mean to the whole planet:

NORKs, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda would lose their financial supporter.

Democracies in Lebanon, Iraq and the rest of the Middle East would have clearer sailing.

Israel could breathe a bit.

alegrias -

After the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, that was more or less Sec. State Kissinger's Plan. The Islamist usurpation of the 1979 Revolution certainly put that on hold.
The fall of the "Mullocracy" would return things to status quo ante for sure.

-S-

568 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:31:50am
Flowersophy : Report from Iran: Hospitals in Tehran are NOT safe. Basijis there, ppl disappearing. #iranElection #gr88
less than 10 seconds ago from web
569 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:32:08am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

If that's true, then the White House really is not only actively supporting the government there, but lying in order to do it.

I agree. WTF?!

570 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:32:14am

Many Americans feel that a visage of moderation is frequently a cowl for cowardice.

I, of course, have no opinion on the matter.

571 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:32:47am

Every damn day I get more and more disappointed with Obama.

572 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:32:49am

70% of the population under age 30?

573 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:32:53am

BBIAB - got to get ready for work.

574 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:33:13am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?

down playing the serious dangerous situation so o won't look bad.
this is how o sees reality. it is always abt. him.

he is lying thru his whistling teeth, the videos and photos prove that innocent women and children are being killed and o tells us it is non-lethal.
how insane and arrogant for o to tell us what we see.

575 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:33:22am

re: #566 reine.de.tout

Well, I'm exhausted.

It's amazing to me that we can see and hear history as it's being made, just a few minutes of delay.

Simply amazing.
And we don't need CNN or FoxNews.

It is amazing - and I relly appreciate that we can read for ourselves, seeing what is rumour and what isnt.
I love not having some talking head telling me what to make of this, not having o read stuff and trying to see where the reporter's bias is.

People are not stupid - thats something those 'in power' forget at their peril!

576 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:33:58am

re: #562 Sharmuta

But that would be meddling and stuff... and require some testicular fortitude etc...

577 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:34:23am

re: #571 Racer X

Every damn day I get more and more disappointed with Obama.

After watching him keenly for 12 months prior to the election, I had no allusions that he was anything other than what we now have.

No expectations, no disappointment

sorry

578 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:34:25am

re: #502 kf

Do you guys really have to turn EVERYTHING into something about Obama? I despise Obama's policies as much as the next guy, but here is what would happen if Obama took a harder stand: Khamanei would have his state-run television stations and his state-run newspapers blast propaganda about how the protesters are being supported, aided, and supplied by The Great Satan and this will result in even more bloodshed as the Basij will be even more ruthless. There are plenty of reports of the Iranian military commanders being relieved of command because they refuse to act against citizens of their own country. If those commanders are led to believe that the US is behind these protests, they could be willing to act in violence against their fellow citizens.

So please I implore you to read up a little, get a clue, and give the partisanship a break for 30 seconds in your life. We need to stand together as Americans against this, not bicker about pointless crap.

Thank you, but I have "a clue".

1. Khamenei is already complaining about "interference":

"American officials' remarks about human rights and limitations on people are not acceptable because they have no idea about human rights after what they have done in Afghanistan and Iraq and other parts of the world. We do not need advice over human rights from them."

2. Since the POTUS is constitutionally in charge of running our foreign policy, why is it "partisanship" to criticize his poor handling of this policy at such a crucial point?

3. Discussing this pivotal juncture in an important region is "pointless crap"?

And you implore others to "get a clue"?

579 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:34:38am

re: #566 reine.de.tout

Well, I'm exhausted.

It's amazing to me that we can see and hear history as it's being made, just a few minutes of delay.

Simply amazing.
And we don't need CNN or FoxNews.

As much as I detest most of CNN's offerings, and am disappointed by what FoxNews has become, we actually do need them. As we have seen, MSM can't get us the info without the e-news types bubbling up into the feed; but I do think that the MSM brings (and abuses) awesome resources that the e-newsies will never have. These complement each other, and if they are usually in conflict, so much the better. Any upright structure is based on tension and compression in opposition.

580 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:35:02am

re: #576 anotherindyfilmguy

But that would be meddling and stuff... and require some testicular fortitude etc...

But I hear that's the new, hip thing to do. It's all the rage in France.

581 skywarner  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:35:10am

re: #569 Last Mohican

If the Bush administration had made such a moronic comment, the media and the leftists (is there a difference?) would have been calling for his impeachment.

But, since it's the "O," he can do no wrong. What's that you say, Dear Leader? The sky is plaid? Oh, yes, I see it! The sky is plaid!

Obama is in over his head.

582 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:35:36am

re: #572 ggt

70% of the population under age 30?

Yep, or very close to.

583 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:35:39am

re: #572 ggt

and able to see through the internet all the freedoms and good things of the rest of the world that they are daily denied...

584 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:36:03am

re: #572 ggt

70% of the population under age 30?

Yes. Something like 50% of the people who voted are 25 and under.

585 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:36:06am

FOX is repeating the "non-lethal crowd control" spew. Now I am confused as to whether it came from The White House or Sec o' State.

586 Last Mohican  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:36:08am

re: #559 haakondahl

With his admittedly in-depth knowledge, he fell into an out-of-depth trap; contrariness to prove superiority. At least he has the scrotal fortitude to climb down.

Perfectly stated.

587 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:36:11am

re: #577 sattv4u2

After watching him keenly for 12 months prior to the election, I had no allusions that he was anything other than what we now have.

No expectations, no disappointment

sorry

'zactly.......

588 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:36:42am

re: #580 Sharmuta

it's a bad day for the world when the French out testicular the POTUS...

589 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:36:52am

re: #548 restitutor orbis

You are one stupid motherfucker.

590 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:37:02am

re: #588 anotherindyfilmguy

it's a bad day for the world when the French out testicular the POTUS...

Yep.

591 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:37:20am

re: #571 Racer X

Every damn day I get more and more disappointed with Obama.

I really tried to support this guy because he is our president but I just throw my hands up anymore.

592 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:37:26am

Lots of pictures:
[Link: www.demotix.com...]

593 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:37:28am

re: #566 reine.de.tout

Well, I'm exhausted.

It's amazing to me that we can see and hear history as it's being made, just a few minutes of delay.

Simply amazing.
And we don't need CNN or FoxNews.


All we HERE need is reine.de.tout !

/yes, a huge overstatement, but meant as thanks and *salute*

594 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:37:35am

re: #582 jcm

Yep, or very close to.

re: #583 anotherindyfilmguy

and able to see through the internet all the freedoms and good things of the rest of the world that they are daily denied...

We need to support the citizens of Iraq. They will live longer than the Mullahs.

595 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:37:47am

ew. Doesn't sound good, but rumor right now;
from Iran09:

RT: @IranRiggedElect: We had rumors that helicopters were spilling hot water on ppl, another rumor says it was Acid! #IranElection #gr88
596 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:38:05am

re: #562 Sharmuta

Obama is an ACORN associate. Not exactly a ring endorsement of free speech or elections. Under any circumstances , as of last night, polls show his waffle approach still the most popular option. Although I suspect the polls reflect many who simply affirm The Messiah position and are not a true Iranian policy endorsement.
Of course your position is correct. That is called principled leadership. I suspect we will be disappointed.

597 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:38:29am

re: #580 Sharmuta

But I hear that's the new, hip thing to do. It's all the rage in France.

It's pretty telling when France has more balls than us.

598 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:38:44am

re: #593 pre-Boomer Marine brat

All we HERE need is reine.de.tout !

/yes, a huge overstatement, but meant as thanks and *salute*

:-)

599 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:38:50am

re: #569 Last Mohican

If that's true, then the White House really is not only actively supporting the government there, but lying in order to do it.

I agree. WTF?!

Isn't the White House required to register as an Agent of a Foreign Power?

600 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:38:53am

re: #595 reine.de.tout

We've concluded earlier that it was likely a solution of some crowd-control agent like tear gas or capsaicin.

601 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:39:14am

re: #589 MandyManners

You are one stupid motherfucker.

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

602 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:39:20am

re: #594 ggt

Absolutely... if the revolution is overturned/put down, even as little as five to ten years from now it will happen all over again as the older clerics die off and the younger ones fight over control etc...

603 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:39:24am

re: #600 Dar ul Harb

We've concluded earlier that it was likely a solution of some crowd-control agent like tear gas or capsaicin.

OK, Thanks.

604 pat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:39:52am

Obama is feverishly working on an apology as we speak.

605 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:39:59am

re: #594 ggt

We need to support the citizens of Iraq. They will live longer than the Mullahs.

We need to support freedom and self determination where ever, when ever it springs up.

606 poteen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:40:27am

I was only half sarcastic above. .The largest state sponsor of Islamic terror in the world has riots in their streets. Their security forces are pushing it toward civil war.
The US will get the blame regardless of what is said or done so why not get blamed for something we did?

607 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:40:32am

LGf re-Tweet:

melodymoezzi RT @parvezsharma: On the phone with Tehran: Allahoakbars just stopped few minutes ago-went on for 40 mins. Now eerie silence #iranelection
less than 20 seconds ago from web

608 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:40:35am

re: #595 reine.de.tout

ew. Doesn't sound good, but rumor right now;
from Iran09:

"science" would dispel the hot water theory. It would have had to been scalding when it was placed in the bucket under the copter. From that second on it starts to cool. As it's dropped from the bucket and disperses it would cool DRASTICALLY in the open air. It would be warm at best by the time it raches the ground

Some type of chemical added to water "making the water feel as if it is "burning") is a more likely scenario

609 sngnsgt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:40:55am

re: #604 pat

Beat me to it... ;-)

610 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:41:02am

re: #606 poteen

I was only half sarcastic above. .The largest state sponsor of Islamic terror in the world has riots in their streets. Their security forces are pushing it toward civil war.
The US will get the blame regardless of what is said or done so why not get blamed for something we did?

In a speech yesterday, I think, we did get blamed.

611 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:42:02am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

Hahahahahahahahaha!

*deep breath*

Hahahahahahahahaha!

612 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:42:24am

Confirmation of purported BHO statement?

"We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people."

613 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:42:24am

re: #606 poteen

I was only half sarcastic above. .The largest state sponsor of Islamic terror in the world has riots in their streets. Their security forces are pushing it toward civil war.
The US will get the blame regardless of what is said or done so why not get blamed for something we did?

The mullahs are already blaming us. No surprise.

Obama speaks out for freedom the mullahs will scream interference.
But the people will hear.

614 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:42:54am

re: #538 ggt

Fox just reported that the White House stated the police in Iran were using non-lethan crowd controlling measures and it was not a "Tiananmen Square" situation.

WTF?


I have been doing battle with the lawn & weeds & wondering if Obama would say any more & then I see this.
His comment is very illuminating after he lauded the Ayatollah for promisin a partial recount.
Obama is not with the people who want freedom , but is an apologist for the oppresors.

615 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:42:59am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

summa cum loudly

616 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:43:18am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

It's a fucking fan of FCBBHO? Well, you could push me over with a feather.

617 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:44:00am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

Mandy was right, he IS a stupid motherfucker and not just playing one on LGF! Obamatron to da bone.

618 KingKenrod  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:44:14am

re: #612 Dar ul Harb

Confirmation of purported BHO statement?

"We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people."


I think that's accurate. There was also a bit about the govt respecting human rights, a nod to Obama's Cairo speech, and a quote from MLK.

619 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:44:29am

re: #595 reine.de.tout

ew. Doesn't sound good, but rumor right now;
from Iran09:

Andrew Sullivan has been reposting tweets with those reports since the morning. It's not hot water, but as suggested above by others, some kind of chemical agent:

12.46 pm. Helicopters did not spray boiling water. It was a type of ACID, similar to what Mojahedeen used in '78-'82.

Taken with the reports of people vanishing from hospitals, it looks as is this is partly an attempt at crowd dispersal--and an attempt to force protesters into seeking medical attention at hospitals, where they can be identified and arrested.

Hence the need for all the foreign embassies to be accepting the wounded.

620 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:44:32am

HUGE crowd moved from Azadi to Navab. Basij station in Navab metro set on fire. 12-yr-old boy killed. #iranElection
[Link: twitter.com...]

621 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:44:39am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

His ego is ALLLLL over that one!
JEEEZ!
Whatta juvenile.

622 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:44:56am

LOOKS LIKE MEAT'S BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!

623 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:45:43am

re: #615 pre-Boomer Marine brat

summa cum loudly

Well, he is a jerkoff.

624 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:45:50am

re: #622 MandyManners

((((((((LOOKS LIKE MEAT'S BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!)))))))))

625 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:45:55am

BBL

626 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:46:07am

re: #620 yma o hyd

HUGE crowd moved from Azadi to Navab. Basij station in Navab metro set on fire. 12-yr-old boy killed. #iranElection
[Link: twitter.com...]

12?!

627 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:46:08am
Mr. President, you must do better. We don't belong on the sidelines. As the leader of the world's indispensable nation, it's time to stand tall and stand with the people of Iran.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Ruben Navarrette Jr.

-- CNN's page.

No doubt.

628 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:46:54am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

OMG!

/falling off computer chair laffing

629 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:47:02am

re: #612 Dar ul Harb

Confirmation of purported BHO statement?

"We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people."

Confirmed.

The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching. We mourn each and every innocent life that is lost. We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.

As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.

Martin Luther King once said - “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” I believe that. The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian peoples’ belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

630 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:47:39am

They are shouting from the rooftops! How cool..

631 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:47:48am

re: #604 pat

Obama is feverishly working on an apology as we speak.

he did this when russia tanked into georgia. he did the "both side should stand down" b.s. because either he didn't know what was going on or he thought that w/ the power of his grand and magnificent personality he could inspire the parties to resolve the issues peacefully. finally after other countries spoke up for
russia to get the fck out, then o read a statement parroting the words of these other brave leaders.

o is going to have to start parroting brave words again, soon.
the guy is not a leader and every hour it becomes more obvious.

632 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:47:54am

re: #629 iceweasel

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Late. Way late.

633 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:47:55am

Y'all, doesn't "restitutor Orbis" mean Anyone but Bush in Latin? Healing the the Planet After Bush?

634 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:48:08am

re: #623 VegasRick

Well, he is a jerkoff.

Indeed -- look at his full profile -- enormous ego

/and very possibly, at least some of that profile is bullshit

635 Dekar  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:48:20am

[Link: twitter.com...]

636 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:48:22am

re: #621 pre-Boomer Marine brat

His ego is ALLLLL over that one!
JEEEZ!
Whatta juvenile.

Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays?

637 Chip Designer  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:48:33am

Here is the official Whitehouse statement, posted today, from [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

It is about as neutral as you can get.

The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching. We mourn each and every innocent life that is lost. We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.

As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.

Martin Luther King once said - "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." I believe that. The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian peoples’ belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness.

638 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:48:48am

re: #626 MandyManners

12?!

This came from iran09 as well - but he says its unconfirmed.

639 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:48:55am

ANYONE know what armed & US-backed Iraq is saying, right next door to Iran?

640 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:49:06am

I thought ya'll might want read what RonPaul! had to say:
I rise in reluctant opposition to H Res 560, which condemns the Iranian government for its recent actions during the unrest in that country. While I never condone violence, much less the violence that governments are only too willing to mete out to their own citizens, I am always very cautious about “condemning” the actions of governments overseas. As an elected member of the United States House of Representatives, I have always questioned our constitutional authority to sit in judgment of the actions of foreign governments of which we are not representatives. I have always hesitated when my colleagues rush to pronounce final judgment on events thousands of miles away about which we know very little. And we know very little beyond limited press reports about what is happening in Iran.

Of course I do not support attempts by foreign governments to suppress the democratic aspirations of their people, but when is the last time we condemned Saudi Arabia or Egypt or the many other countries where unlike in Iran there is no opportunity to exercise any substantial vote on political leadership? It seems our criticism is selective and applied when there are political points to be made. I have admired President Obama’s cautious approach to the situation in Iran and I would have preferred that we in the House had acted similarly.

I adhere to the foreign policy of our Founders, who advised that we not interfere in the internal affairs of countries overseas. I believe that is the best policy for the United States, for our national security and for our prosperity. I urge my colleagues to reject this and all similar meddling resolutions.

'We stand firmly against all forms of meddling'

The Great Moral Equivalizers

641 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:49:06am

When you love a politician so deeply, so unconditionally, you get blind to their poor decision making.

WAKE UP!

642 haakondahl  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:49:45am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

Lunch was not great today, but it was better going down than it was coming back up.

Restitutor Orbis, indeed. Rectipounder Oplease.

643 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:50:04am

re: #637 Chip Designer

How is this 'neutral'?

We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people.

Or this?

If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.

644 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:50:22am

re: #637 Chip Designer

Chip Designer -

A great statement - only wish Pres. Obama would have said it a few days ago.

-S-

645 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:50:49am

re: #621 pre-Boomer Marine brat


Sorry, pal....thats not me. Wouldn't expect you to believe it. But no, try again.
But keep on thinking it if it makes you feel better

646 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:50:57am

re: #637 Chip Designer

Bearing witness when you are part of the suppressed and beaten is one thing - 'bearing witness' when you are sitting in your comfortable White House equals the washing-of-hands of Pilate.

647 poteen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:51:01am

re: #613 jcm

I won't presume to know what Obama knows or why he says what he says but if the AKmobile isn't trucking toward Tehran right now then we're not doing what we should to keep suicide bombers and other goofy bastards out of the world back yard.

648 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:51:11am

re: #636 MandyManners

Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays?

*pulls self up*
*smooths gray hair*
*sniff*
Who you callin' a KID?!

649 annar  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:51:26am

Too bad that ugly monument to the insane author of a book on which kinds of love making with animals is permitted was not destroyed. One quote from this religious man of peace, full of mercy and compassion.

"The prophet has [had] sword to kill people. Our [Holy] Imams were quite military men.They used to wield swords; they used to kill people.  We need a Khalifa who would chop hands, cut throat, stone people. In the same way that the messenger of God used to chop hands, cut throats, and stone people. In the same way that he massacred the Jews of Bani Qurayza (4) because they were a bunch of discontent people.   If the Prophet used to order to burn a house or exterminate a tribe that was justice. The lives of people must be secured through punishment. Because, the protection of the masses lies beneath these very punitive executions.  With just a few years of imprisonment things don’t get fixed.You must put aside these childish sentimentalism.  We believe that the accused essentially does not have to be tried. He or she  must just be killed. Only their identity is to be established and then they should be killed."

650 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:51:34am

re: #643 iceweasel

How is this 'neutral'?

It would have been hot shit three days ago. Today it needs to be "Stop killing your children!"

651 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:51:50am

Please, Obambi thinks that he is the head of some farcical conglomerate of the US and the UN. He is diplospeaking.

652 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:52:04am

re: #629 iceweasel

[Link: www.politico.com...]

About time.

653 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:52:06am

re: #640 BigPapa

What a fucking weasel. I did not think that my disdain for him could go lower. I was wrong.

654 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:52:12am

BHO said that water boarding or any enhanced interrogation method violates American values. Apparently standing up for the American value of supporting people striving for freedom is inoperative here.

655 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:53:01am

From tehranbureau:
'From FB: u aren't here in iran to see what's really happening to us... they are just hitting and killing our people freely...
pray for us... u can be a great help to spread the news..." end quote'

656 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:53:15am

I know that this is a long shot, but Restutitor Orbis, you need to look at this. Proof of your condition. Maybe someday you'll thank us.

Regards, Lao Stinky

657 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:53:18am

re: #647 poteen

I won't presume to know what Obama knows or why he says what he says but if the AKmobile isn't trucking toward Tehran right now then we're not doing what we should to keep suicide bombers and other goofy bastards out of the world back yard.

It's a chance to reset the table in the middle east.

Caution is needed, but also a certain boldness.
Speaking fundamental truths such as liberty and will be remembered by the people seeking liberty.

658 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:53:55am

From our Winston:
'proud to say my family/relatives were active in protests today in #tehran - am told many many ppl r beaten #iranelection'

659 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:54:00am

re: #637 Chip Designer

Here is the official Whitehouse statement, posted today, from [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

It is about as neutral as you can get.

What HE said in Cairo again......

*spit*

660 winston06  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:54:00am

American people... Please press your government to lend us moral and political support.

America is the only country that can make a difference here. Please help the people of Iran

661 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:54:25am

re: #655 yma o hyd

From tehranbureau:
'From FB: u aren't here in iran to see what's really happening to us... they are just hitting and killing our people freely...
pray for us... u can be a great help to spread the news..." end quote'

that is so heart breaking.
my head hurts.

662 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:55:21am

re: #645 restitutor orbis

Sorry, pal....thats not me. Wouldn't expect you to believe it. But no, try again.
But keep on thinking it if it makes you feel better

You mistaken me for someone who ultimately gives a shit.

Fuck off and die, idiot.

663 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:55:36am

LaraABC:
'#Obama: We mourn each & every innocent life that is lost, call on #Iranian govt to stop all violent & unjust actions against its own people'

Heh - he won't do that!

664 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:56:47am

re: #639 alegrias

ANYONE know what armed & US-backed Iraq is saying, right next door to Iran?

I have already explained this to you ,,, twice

665 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:56:47am

re: #660 winston06

American people... Please press your government to lend us moral and political support.

America is the only country that can make a difference here. Please help the people of Iran

(Winston}!

Thank you for your tweets, your blog - and thank your family and friends in iran for what they are doing right now!

666 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:56:51am

re: #660 winston06

American people... Please press your government to lend us moral and political support.

America is the only country that can make a difference here. Please help the people of Iran

* * * *
We're right next door on either side of you, with weapons to bring freedom, in Afghanistan and Iraq, if President Obama would decide to send help to you.

667 FrogMarch  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:57:00am

re: #601 jcm

Lookie what we got here....

Restitutor Orbis
Barack Obama and the New American Era

Heh. Another blind-faith Obama-worshiper.

668 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:57:17am

re: #659 jcm

What HE said in Cairo again......

*spit*

he said nothing in cairo. nothing except to show he is a tool for the enemy.
the enemy now killing innocent people in iran.

he is such a worthless buffoon.

669 winston06  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:57:35am

re: #666 alegrias

empty suit wont help us unless he is under pressure from you guys in the USA.

670 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:57:48am

re: #660 winston06

American people... Please press your government to lend us moral and political support.

America is the only country that can make a difference here. Please help the people of Iran

Winston,

*SALUTE*

671 winston06  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:57:55am

A free Iran means peace & prosperity for Israel.

672 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:58:02am

re: #660 winston06

The world is watching the US as much as they should be watching Iran.

When it gets dicey, the world has always looked to the US, although they complain about us the rest of the time. It's time to live up to the world's expectations Obama, despite what Kerry and Paul (the Anti-Meddlers) think.

673 Chip Designer  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:58:06am

re: #643 iceweasel

How is this 'neutral'?

Obama is not supporting either side. He is just asking for no violence.

It seems to me that there are certain times when you have to take sides. I think that this is one of those times.

674 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:58:18am

rom tehranbureau:
'good source: Hospital close to the scene in Tehran: 30-40 dead thus far as of 11pm and 200 injured. Police taking names of incoming injured.'

675 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:58:30am

re: #671 winston06

A free Iran means peace & prosperity for Israel.

Well, Obama will never let that happen.

676 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:58:42am

re: #650 SurferDoc

It would have been hot shit three days ago. Today it needs to be "Stop killing your children!"

Arguably three days ago would have been too soon.

The regime has been doing everything it can to delegitimise the protesters and portray the opposition as some sort of US/UK/Israeli sponsored and trained coup attempt.

It's reasonable to assume that a stronger statement by Obama made sooner would have been played on an endless loop by the state TV, along with claims that the protesters were all infiltrators trained by the US. (the State TV has already aired footage of captured protesters being forced to claim that).

Many in the army and police have been refusing to fire on the protesters because they don't want to fire on their fellow citizens. That could have gone very differently if the regime had been able to convince them that the protesters were actually infiltrators acting on behalf of other countries to bring down Iran. A stronger statement by Obama made earlier surely would have been used in that way.

I think Obama has been walking a very careful line, and I like this new statement. I fear making it sooner would have done more harm than good.

677 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:58:51am

re: #622 MandyManners

LOOKS LIKE MEAT'S BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!

BBQed Gamey Buttocks®?

678 winston06  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:59:09am

just told by my friend in Tehran... he was beaten 3 times

679 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 11:59:14am

re: #664 sattv4u2

I have already explained this to you ,,, twice

* * *

Sorry, must have missed your factual posts. Care to repeat what Iraq is saying about this, or Afghanistan, to the Iranian freedom fighters?

680 winston06  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:00:41pm

rt @iranbaan Basij command post in Navab st of #tehran is on fire #iranelection

681 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:01:08pm

re: #669 winston06

empty suit wont help us unless he is under pressure from you guys in the USA.

* * * *
You must know that
John McCain and the minority party of the GOP are pressuring and shaming Pres. Obama to catchup & be a leader, not an empty suit, in Iran's survival struggle.

682 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:01:10pm

re: #678 winston06

just told by my friend in Tehran... he was beaten 3 times

Tell him, and let him tell all his friends that we are watching and following every tweet.
They are all in our prayers, and we admire their courage.

683 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:03:08pm

re: #673 Chip Designer

Obama is not supporting either side. He is just asking for no violence.

He's specifically calling on the regime not to use violence on the protesters, and to honour the will of the Iranian people.

He's also reminding them that the world is watching, and warning they'll forfeit the respect of the international community if they won't respect the will of their own people.
That might not be bellicose enough for your taste, but I read it as an implied threat and warning.

684 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:03:10pm

dear leader voting present with a side of bullshit. . . whodathunkit?//

685 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:03:36pm

re: #671 winston06

A free Iran means peace & prosperity for Israel.

A free Iran benefits the whole world.

Winston.

In your labor for Iran
دستت دردنکنه
(May your hand not hurt)

686 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:03:37pm

From tehranbureau:
'from an hr or two ago (maybe longer): ... HAS HIT THE FAN...TOHID SQUARE ON FIRE, PEOPLE ARE CHANTING,'

687 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:03:46pm

during this dark and dangerous time in iran,
we are seeing the true nature of totus.
he is not a shining example of a force for good.
his hope and change rings hollow.
and sounds ominous.

688 Lynn B.  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:03:49pm

re: #667 FrogMarch

Heh. Another blind-faith Obama-worshiper.

No, not the same person. Check out RO's previous comments here on LGF.

Either that or a split personality.

/either way, pretty obnoxious

689 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:03:55pm

re: #683 iceweasel

He's specifically calling on the regime not to use violence on the protesters, and to honour the will of the Iranian people.

He's also reminding them that the world is watching, and warning they'll forfeit the respect of the international community if they won't respect the will of their own people.
That might not be bellicose enough for your taste, but I read it as an implied threat and warning.

* * * * *
SPITBALLS are threatened, that's for sure.

690 winston06  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:00pm

re: #682 yma o hyd

Iranian people should be armed to be able to defend themselves

691 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:10pm

re: #679 alegrias

* * *

Sorry, must have missed your factual posts. Care to repeat what Iraq is saying about this, or Afghanistan, to the Iranian freedom fighters?

NOTHING


REASONS..

A) there is still no love lost between an ARAB Iraq and a PERSIAN Iran
B) there was no support from the Iranians when Saddam was toppled
C) in fact, Iran sent (and still sends) destabilizing forces into Iraq to disrupt their march to democracy
D) yes, I know that there is a difference bewteen the Iranian theocracy sending those forces as ooposed to the Iranian man on the street, but revert back to A) as far as the Iraqi man in the street cares

692 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:20pm

re: #676 iceweasel

Arguably three days ago would have been too soon.

The regime has been doing everything it can to delegitimise the protesters and portray the opposition as some sort of US/UK/Israeli sponsored and trained coup attempt.

It's reasonable to assume that a stronger statement by Obama made sooner would have been played on an endless loop by the state TV, along with claims that the protesters were all infiltrators trained by the US. (the State TV has already aired footage of captured protesters being forced to claim that).

Many in the army and police have been refusing to fire on the protesters because they don't want to fire on their fellow citizens. That could have gone very differently if the regime had been able to convince them that the protesters were actually infiltrators acting on behalf of other countries to bring down Iran. A stronger statement by Obama made earlier surely would have been used in that way.

I think Obama has been walking a very careful line, and I like this new statement. I fear making it sooner would have done more harm than good.

I think he/us will get that response no matter what and although I agree that it would have been used to bad effect, now he doesn't have to worry about that any more. The problem is, he wants nothing to interfere with his unconditional talks with this regime, not whatever might follow.

693 poteen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:21pm

re: #657 jcm

Agreed... The statements he needs to make are coming. The strength and timing are questionable but then again Twitter isn't his only source of intel.
Whether he gets the timing right remains to be seen, but "plausibly deniable" arms support, I think, is a given at this point.

694 FrogMarch  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:22pm

re: #681 alegrias

* * * *
You must know that
John McCain and the minority party of the GOP are pressuring and shaming Pres. Obama to catchup & be a leader, not an empty suit, in Iran's survival struggle.

And what do I hear the collective left saying? "John McCain is erratic.."
To which I say: PISS OFF.

695 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:23pm

re: #676 iceweasel

Arguably three days ago would have been too soon.

The regime has been doing everything it can to delegitimise the protesters and portray the opposition as some sort of US/UK/Israeli sponsored and trained coup attempt.

The would delegitimize the protests as being caused by US and Zionist influence anyway if we didn't say a peep. It's essentially moot.

Do you support Kerry and RonPaul!'s statements, seemingly in line with your premise?

696 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:40pm

re: #667 FrogMarch

Heh. Another blind-faith Obama-worshiper.


what a surprise! //

697 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:04:47pm

Another outrageous statement from Obama.......

The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching. We mourn each and every innocent life that is lost. We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.


As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.

Martin Luther King once said - "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." I believe that. The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian peoples' belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness.


OMG11!1@! I'm sssoooooo seeeething!

698 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:05:44pm

re: #691 sattv4u2

NOTHING

REASONS..

A) there is still no love lost between an ARAB Iraq and a PERSIAN Iran
B) there was no support from the Iranians when Saddam was toppled
C) in fact, Iran sent (and still sends) destabilizing forces into Iraq to disrupt their march to democracy
D) yes, I know that there is a difference bewteen the Iranian theocracy sending those forces as ooposed to the Iranian man on the street, but revert back to A) as far as the Iraqi man in the street cares


* * * *
Sorry but Those sound like opinions.

I can't believe the Iraqi press is silent.

699 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:05:44pm

re: #690 winston06

Iranian people should be armed to be able to defend themselves

They may be able to arm themselves when groups from the security forces start collaborating with them.

700 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:06:19pm

re: #676 iceweasel

That could have gone very differently if the regime had been able to convince them that the protesters were actually infiltrators acting on behalf of other countries to bring down Iran. A stronger statement by Obama made earlier surely would have been used in that way.

The tens of thousands large crowds will not be confused as outside infiltrators. The cow has left the barn on this one and I suggest another angle.

701 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:06:19pm

What's the number of the House Resolution supporting the people of Iran?

702 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:06:32pm

re: #687 nyc redneck

during this dark and dangerous time in iran,
we are seeing the true nature of totus.
he is not a shining example of a force for good.
his hope and change rings hollow.
and sounds ominous.

it really sucks that people had to die, and continue to die, because this hollow excuse for humanity "won"

Obama won, American lost, and hope really is just a town in Arkansas. . .

703 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:06:54pm

re: #698 alegrias

* * * *
Sorry but Those sound like opinions.

I can't believe the Iraqi press is silent.

those are all facts, sorry

Show/tell me which one is not or has not happened?

704 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:07:39pm

'omid007 reports at least 10 protesters shot By Basij, Bassij opened gunfire on people at Haft Hooz SQ.'
(Tehranbureau)

705 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:07:43pm

re: #698 alegrias

Sorry but Those sound like opinions.


No, it's pretty much accepted historical facts. The Iraqis are in now way going to get involved and they shouldn't. It would be a very bad thing.

706 Blackacre  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:08:10pm

re: #683 iceweasel

"but I read it as an implied threat and warning"

I read it as voting "Present." The One is a feckless snot-weasel at a time when the currents of world events demand precisely the opposite.

707 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:08:24pm

re: #691 sattv4u2

Didn't Ahmadinnerjacket go visit Iraq last year, and was greeted with open arms and given the red carpet treatment?

708 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:08:26pm

re: #703 sattv4u2

those are all facts, sorry

Show/tell me which one is not or has not happened?

* * * *
Sorry, not gonna debate.

I asked if anyone had factual reporting from Iraq.

709 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:08:42pm

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

710 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:08:43pm

re: #701 MandyManners

What's the number of the House Resolution supporting the people of Iran?

H Res 560

S Res 193; S Res 196

Now I gotta' find out how my critters voted.

711 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:08:57pm

re: #705 Killgore Trout

No, it's pretty much accepted historical facts. The Iraqis are in now way going to get involved and they shouldn't. It would be a very bad thing.

ten years at war, and thousands upon thousands dead. . .sounds like a bad relationship between neighbors to me. . .

712 pink freud  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:09:19pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

What power? What value?

713 poteen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:09:19pm

With Hizbullah and Hamas manpower busy in Tehran, it might also be a good time for the IDF to go shopping in Gaza.

714 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:09:33pm

re: #710 MandyManners

H Res 560

S Res 193; S Res 196

Now I gotta' find out how my critters voted.

Only Ron Paul voted agaisnt this, iirc!

715 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:09:51pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

Brother, aint that the truth.

716 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:09:57pm

re: #711 DisturbedEma

They also used WMD on each other.

717 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:10:00pm

re: #692 SurferDoc

I think he/us will get that response no matter what and although I agree that it would have been used to bad effect, now he doesn't have to worry about that any more. The problem is, he wants nothing to interfere with his unconditional talks with this regime, not whatever might follow.

I think it's true that regardless of what he'd said (or not said), the regime was going to spin it that way; but we didn't have to help them do it--and that's what he was avoiding.

We'll have to see what happens. I think it's promising that he's issued the statement he has and hope that there will be stronger ones/more forecful action to come, depending on how it develops. (I also hope the opposition can take Iran on their own)

718 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #710 MandyManners

H Res 560

S Res 193; S Res 196

Now I gotta' find out how my critters voted.

The vote.

719 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:10:29pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

The words of The Big Zero have value?

720 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:10:40pm

re: #688 Lynn B.

No, not the same person. Check out RO's previous comments here on LGF.

Either that or a split personality.

/either way, pretty obnoxious

How about a bald-faced liar.

/notice the absence of a question mark

721 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:10:41pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

That's exactly what's happening. This isn't about us.

722 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:10:50pm

re: #669 winston06

empty suit wont help us unless he is under pressure from you guys in the USA.

He won't help even if pressured. What you've seen over the past week is exactly what you get. Nada, zip, zilch. ,

723 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:10:50pm

re: #715 Racer X

Brother, aint that the truth.

Oh wait, you were talking about his words and actions this past week?

724 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:11:01pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

Who? The MSM? Chrissie? That pansy from Newsweak?

725 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:11:07pm

re: #705 Killgore Trout

No, it's pretty much accepted historical facts. The Iraqis are in now way going to get involved and they shouldn't. It would be a very bad thing.


now now ,,, he didn't ask for your "opinion"

////

726 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:11:21pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

Obama is taking the pussy-man's way out ....

727 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:11:34pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

Not Obama, The President of the United States of America.

There is a difference. Persians are looking (see Winston's post) to American for affirmation of the pursuit of liberty.

728 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:11:39pm

re: #714 yma o hyd

Only Ron Paul voted agaisnt this, iirc!

If I recall correctly the representative for my district, Keith Ellison, voted present on this one.

729 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:11:42pm

re: #712 pink freud

What power? What value?


Upding- they have neither power nor value, they don't mean a fecking thing. . .even his supporters are getting that now. . .right LGBT community, Jews. . .teachers. . .

730 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:11:50pm

re: #716 Killgore Trout

They also used WMD on each other.

* * * *
for those of you who don't know, Saddam Hussein invaded Iran, and he is dead & gone. This ain't your Saddam Baathist neighbor-invading Iraq anymore.

I'm asking about the new, free Iraq government's statements about Iran.

731 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:12:00pm

'Reports from Tehran, Azadi St., Sanati Sharif University indicate that more that 10 helicopters landed inside the university,
unloaded massive amounts of guns for more than 500 basijies whom had been sent there several hours earlier to confront the demonstrators.'
(Tehranbureau)

732 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:12:20pm

re: #697 Killgore Trout

Another outrageous statement from Obama.......


OMG11!1@! I'm sssoooooo seeeething!

I think that's about the most he can safely say at this point, even a hint the the US is taking sides in a election would make it worse for both sides.

733 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:12:20pm

re: #716 Killgore Trout

They also used WMD on each other.

Yep- an all out war. . .

734 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:12:37pm

re: #721 iceweasel

That's exactly what's happening. This isn't about us.

* * * *
You're quoting Pres. Obama now. INcredible.

735 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:12:37pm

---- ANSWERED “PRESENT” 2 ---

Ellsworth
Loebsack


---- NOT VOTING 25 ---

Adler (NJ)
Bachmann
Barrett (SC)
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (NY)
Capuano
Carter
Crowley
Deal (GA)
DeFazio
Doyle
Fattah
Gordon (TN)
Harman
Johnson (GA)
Kennedy
Lewis (GA)
Ruppersberger
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sestak
Shadegg
Skelton
Sullivan
Velázquez
Westmoreland

736 poteen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:13:11pm

re: #718 MandyManners

When are the Texicans gonna get tired of that ther Nay voter? //

737 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:13:40pm

re: #712 pink freud

Also I think I'm just suffering from outrage burnout. People were outraged over FEMA camps. Outraged over the DHS memo, adopting a dog, starting a garden, going for hamburgers, speaking in Cairo, speaking at Buchenwald. Next week it will be something else. Maybe he'll buy a new pair of shoes. The outrage is always the same intensity. Whatever good points are to be made are just lost in the noise. I don't pay attention to it anymore.

738 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:13:42pm

Instead of quoting MLK, it's time to quote Patton or Eisenhower. You know, somebody with balls.

739 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:13:51pm

re: #735 MandyManners

Bachmann

That's what she's doing on the census too.

740 FrogMarch  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:14:05pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

I think Mr. Words is a day late and a dollar short.
It's Saturday.

741 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:14:44pm

Tehranbureau tweets:
'according to same private listserv source, "People from all around Tehran are gathering to march into the city later at night."'

Its unconfirmed.

742 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:14:51pm

re: #724 SurferDoc

Who? The MSM? Chrissie? That pansy from Newsweak?

No, I'm talking about conservatives. They seem to place grater value on Obama's every word from the most devout liberal. It's just odd.

743 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:15:21pm

re: #690 winston06

Iranian people should be armed to be able to defend themselves

winston06 -

Is that a statement or a wish? Didn't know that firearms are common in Iran as they certainly ARE in Iraq.

-S-

744 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:15:22pm

re: #732 avanti

I think that's about the most he can safely say at this point, even a hint the the US is taking sides in a election would make it worse for both sides.

Fuck you and your sock puppet heir apparently not. . .ready for leading a scout troop. . .

How can it be hard for the side that is shooting people in the streets for protesting? How can he NOT help those who have heeded the call to unclench their fists, you asshat?

745 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:15:23pm

Words and Hope and Change, thats all Obama has.

Now we're supposed to ignore that? What's left?

746 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:15:47pm

re: #740 FrogMarch

Of course you're outraged by this statement. You'll be outraged by the next one too. And so on....

747 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:15:48pm

This is Pres. Obama's HURRICANE KATRINA, said James Rosen on Fox News about an hour ago.

Iran is bigger than a Category 5 Hurricane.

Heck of a job, Pres. Obama.

748 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:15:49pm

He looked at foreign affairs through the wrong end
of a municipal drainpipe

Sir Winston Churchill about Neville Chamberlain

749 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:16:17pm

re: #737 Killgore Trout

Also I think I'm just suffering from outrage burnout. People were outraged over FEMA camps. Outraged over the DHS memo, adopting a dog, starting a garden, going for hamburgers, speaking in Cairo, speaking at Buchenwald. Next week it will be something else. Maybe he'll buy a new pair of shoes. The outrage is always the same intensity. Whatever good points are to be made are just lost in the noise. I don't pay attention to it anymore.

You missed a few of the poutrages, like DijonGate. I can't even keep up anymore.

The problem with the fauxrage is that it wears the rest of us out. Good criticisms are going to be overlooked in all the noise and heat. The boy who cried wolf effect.

750 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:16:21pm

re: #732 avanti

I think that's about the most he can safely say at this point, even a hint the the US is taking sides in a election would make it worse for both sides.

Dude , this is way beyond an election now. It is now about a theocratic police state brutally supressing dissent.
It is a sad state of affairs when the American President can't muster a strong condemnation.

751 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:16:29pm

'Omid007 says: Security Forces attacked Khomeini Hospital to arrest injured protesters, it is said at least 30 injured are there...'
(Tehranbureau)

752 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:17:12pm

re: #749 iceweasel

You missed a few of the poutrages, like DijonGate. I can't even keep up anymore.

The problem with the fauxrage is that it wears the rest of us out. Good criticisms are going to be overlooked in all the noise and heat. The boy who cried wolf effect.

* * * *
You are one weary weasel

753 annar  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:17:38pm

re: #697 Killgore Trout

Another outrageous statement from Obama.......


OMG11!1@! I'm sssoooooo seeeething!

O the vacuity of the emptiness!

754 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:17:44pm

re: #750 opnion

Dude , this is way beyond an election now. It is now about a theocratic police state brutally supressing dissent.
It is a sad state of affairs when the American President can't muster a strong condemnation.

Especially when the French one can!

755 pink freud  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:18:13pm

re: #737 Killgore Trout

Also I think I'm just suffering from outrage burnout. People were outraged over FEMA camps. Outraged over the DHS memo, adopting a dog, starting a garden, going for hamburgers, speaking in Cairo, speaking at Buchenwald. Next week it will be something else. Maybe he'll buy a new pair of shoes. The outrage is always the same intensity. Whatever good points are to be made are just lost in the noise. I don't pay attention to it anymore.

He is a child dressed up in his Sunday clothes playing a role. All he has is words. He is no leader.

756 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:18:27pm

Have a great afternoon all!

757 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:18:58pm

Hero Of Iran

758 SixDegrees  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:19:38pm

re: #572 ggt

70% of the population under age 30?

Estimates vary, but something like that. There are a bunch of old farts running the country, and a bunch of kids living in it. Everyone in the middle pretty much got killed off during the Iran/Iraq war. And with no one to directly pass things on, the younger citizens don't exhibit the same revolutionary fervor their elders do.

759 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:19:49pm

Look, I understand that many of you would take the cautious road and say "well, if we invilve ourselves too much. . ." valid, and I do not have an issue with you. . .BUT

When dear leader goes to people and says that he will grasp their outstretched unclenched hands toward freedom, he has obligated himself to do so, and that is my problem with his silence and inaction. He did not realize the magnitude of his words, his fault, but the people he called upon did, and he should honor that committment, period.

760 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:20:01pm

re: #706 Blackacre

I read it as voting "Present." The One is a feckless snot-weasel at a time when the currents of world events demand precisely the opposite.

"feckless snot weasel"
rotflmao

o thinks he knows what is best for the world. after all he has been described as being above the world, like a god.
this is the narcissist inhabiting the white house now.
hanging back, acting like he is pondering the situation w/ the intelligence of a thoughtful sage.
when in fact he is as you say, just a "feckless snot weasel".

761 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:20:15pm

re: #732 avanti

I think that's about the most he can safely say at this point, even a hint the the US is taking sides in a election would make it worse for both sides.

Look at Winston's posts above.

There is a right thing to do, support freedom were ever it springs up.

Being neutral when people are fighting for their lives and freedom against and evil regime is supporting evil.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

762 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:20:28pm

'UK embassy is now rumored to be accepting the injured #iranelection'
(Winston)

I should bloody well hope so!

But what can one expect from a neostalinist government, who probably thinks Ahmadinejad is a fine left-wing politician - except rumours!
///////

763 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:20:40pm

re: #709 Killgore Trout

I think too many people are overestimating the power and value of Obama's words.

Yep, on one hand some on the right say his words have no effect, then say if speaks, he'll cause Iran's government to fall. The truth is somewhere in between. He can stand up for freedom to protest peaceably, maybe help covertly, but that's it.

764 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:21:12pm

re: #754 yma o hyd

Especially when the French one can!


Ah mon amie, viva le France. It is embarassing.

765 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:21:13pm

re: #750 opnion

Dude , this is way beyond an election now. It is now about a theocratic police state brutally supressing dissent.
It is a sad state of affairs when the American President can't muster a strong condemnation.

Maybe he could pretend he is lying about American troops in Iraq. . .
//

766 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:21:20pm

re: #759 DisturbedEma

Look, I understand that many of you would take the cautious road and say "well, if we invilve ourselves too much. . ." valid, and I do not have an issue with you. . .BUT

When dear leader goes to people and says that he will grasp their outstretched unclenched hands toward freedom, he has obligated himself to do so, and that is my problem with his silence and inaction. He did not realize the magnitude of his words, his fault, but the people he called upon did, and he should honor that committment, period.

Absolutely!

Upding!

767 lawhawk  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:21:29pm

So, we've still got people thinking that sitting back and saying and doing nothing is the right move to make?

How dare you.

We sat back and did nothing at Tiananmen Square and the regime cracked down and many of those involved were never to be heard from again.

We sat back and did nothing in Rwanda and Congo and Darfur and millions are dead.

Standing up to evil is a responsibility that everyone has.

The problem is that Obama and his advisers don't think that the regime is evil, or that they'd rather sit back and do nothing because they need someone to talk with.

Obama's policy on Iran has been rapproachment with the Ahmadinejad regime, and now it's been laid bare that it is as evil as everyone other than Obama and the leftists have been saying all along.

Perhaps Obama is letting France and Germany take the lead on criticizing Iran so that he can sweep in later to make some conciliatory gesture? Or, more likely, he doens't have a clue what to do and is hoping that events solve matters for him.

Had he stood up and said that the US supports democracy everywhere and that we urge the Iranians to avoid violence in solving their electoral difficulties, much bloodshed could be avoided.

Meanwhile, Mousavi and some of his top allies are saying that they're prepared for martyrdom.

768 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:21:33pm

Sorry all you Obama apologists.

This is what Obama has been preparing for his whole life. A dangerous situation where people are getting brutally murdered just because they desire freedom. This is a turning point in the history of the world!

Think of the opportunity for Obama to make a difference! He must take advantage of this opportunity to use his words on a worldwide stage and call for democracy in voice louder than anyone before him.

Seize the moment!

/or sit back and wait for it to play out.

769 FrogMarch  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:22:13pm

re: #746 Killgore Trout

Of course you're outraged by this statement. You'll be outraged by the next one too. And so on....

What outrage?

You're imagining things.

770 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:22:30pm

re: #532 nyc redneck

maybe he should swat a fly for them.

Loons for the ethical treatment of filthy insects would be in revolt.

771 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:23:42pm

I think this is why the right wing coverage of the Iran story has been so poor. Right wing blogs tend to focus on Obama while left wing blogs (like Huffpo) are focusing on the Iranians. The Iranian people are clearly the focal point of the story, not Obama.

772 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:23:42pm

re: #767 lawhawk

RIGHT - FUCKING - ON, LAWHAWK!

773 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:24:11pm

John McCain could give Iranians moral support (and flip the bird towards the mullahs) in his SLEEP, while NAPPING and SLEEPWALKING.

Elections have consequences, and boy, are young Iranians paying for the stupidity of some US voters right now, with Iranian lives.

774 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:24:16pm
775 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:25:10pm
776 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:25:58pm

Supporting the Toppling of Iran would save US tax dollars in the short & long run.
It's the right thing to do for many reasons.

777 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:26:04pm

re: #767 lawhawk

So, we've still got people thinking that sitting back and saying and doing nothing is the right move to make?

How dare you.


I'm pretty sure we're involved, as we should be. That involvement should remain covert and making public proclamations about it would jeopardize lives.

778 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:26:18pm

re: #771 Killgore Trout

The Iranian people are clearly the focal point of the story, not Obama.

The left like to focus on feelings and emotion. The right tend to want to take action. When our leader takes no action we get pissed. People are dying. Hows that make you feel?

779 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:26:33pm

re: #767 lawhawk

YES! AND he told them he would be there. . .his moment awaits, will it be Obama lied, people died?

My 2 sons are already at war, I do not wish for another war, but it is simply not honorable to allow this "leader" to spout pretty vapid words in our stead and then let him off the hook when he refuses to cash the check his mouth is writing with action and support. . .

780 lawhawk  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:26:49pm

re: #771 Killgore Trout

Funny thing about that. It all depends on which blogs you're talking about. Are you reading the comments? Or maybe the left wing isn't expecting Obama to do a damned thing and are commenting, while Obama's critics are looking to see what he's going to do to vis a vis the regime and the protesters. Will he stand up and confront evil or will he sit back and let events overtake him?

Thus far, he's been content to sit back. That's given the regime breathing room it should not have, and no matter what happens, the regime - Ahmadinejad and Khamenei will use the US as a bogeyman all while engaging in a crackdown to retain power and cleanse the government of opposition.

781 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:27:00pm
782 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:27:16pm

re: #778 Racer X

When our leader takes no action we get pissed.


Statements and action are not the same thing. We have no idea what actions are taking place.

783 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:27:26pm

re: #763 avanti

Yep, on one hand some on the right say his words have no effect, then say if speaks, he'll cause Iran's government to fall. The truth is somewhere in between. He can stand up for freedom to protest peaceably, maybe help covertly, but that's it.

I didn't see anyone say that he could bring down the Iranian government. I could have missed it.
The point is that the American President should offer unequivocal moral support for people trying to be free.
He has no problem condemning Israel, but is meek when it comes to breaking bad on the oppressive Iranian Regime & has actually made comments in support of that regime

784 FrogMarch  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:28:16pm

re: #771 Killgore Trout

I think this is why the right wing coverage of the Iran story has been so poor. Right wing blogs tend to focus on Obama while left wing blogs (like Huffpo) are focusing on the Iranians. The Iranian people are clearly the focal point of the story, not Obama.

Huffpo has Nico Pitney and he's doing a great job. so what?

785 guftafs  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:28:52pm

re: #777 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure we're involved, as we should be. That involvement should remain covert and making public proclamations about it would jeopardize lives.

Would be good if these manifestations could be organized. Are people just milling about in extreme anger? And they need hardware to face the security forces and whatever.

786 lawhawk  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:29:39pm

re: #777 Killgore Trout

I would comment on covert actions if any that are present or the intel ops to figure out what's going on. That we shouldn't learn of them to come would be a tremendous achievement for our intel services.

However, secret actions can be accompanied by public pronouncements that address the violent and brutal crackdown against the protesters who worry that their votes were stolen by a regime they now consider illegitimate.

It's on that latter point that President Obama can speak - and should do more than speak. He should lead. If he can. He has a chance to seize the moment and do the right thing on human rights (one of the key issues that the left always talks about). Time for them to do.

787 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:29:45pm

He is the fucking Leader of the Free World. He can tell Israel what to do and by G-d they'd better listen.

But he can't speak out about Iranian freedom.

That about it?

788 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:29:55pm

re: #771 Killgore Trout

I think this is why the right wing coverage of the Iran story has been so poor. Right wing blogs tend to focus on Obama while left wing blogs (like Huffpo) are focusing on the Iranians. The Iranian people are clearly the focal point of the story, not Obama.

Absolutely. Some people insist that Obama is an empty suit whose words have no meaning and power. They're often the very same people who think that just a few words from him will somehow have the magical effect of bringing democracy to Iran.

The right wing blogs are caught in this peculiar state of cognitive dissonance, wanting simultaneously to rag on Obama for being completely weak and incompetent, yet also invest him with the magic power of complete control over what's happening in Iran if he only says the right magic words.

789 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:30:03pm

Look, I certainly hope this turns out for the best....
But revolutions have a way of not quite working out as planned, in the long run
Exhibit A: France.
Exhibit B: Russia
Just because someone wants freedom, doesn't necessarily mean they want to be our friends. We would do well to remember that. especially all of the armchair generals here who wnat to "withdraw from Iraq via Iran, and Tomahawk certain key government buildings. This is the issue for the Iranians to settle. the best we can do is take a hands off approach, and put our support behind that leader that truly represents our interests.
Thats really all I'm saying.

790 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:30:36pm
791 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:30:42pm

re: #771 Killgore Trout

I think this is why the right wing coverage of the Iran story has been so poor. Right wing blogs tend to focus on Obama while left wing blogs (like Huffpo) are focusing on the Iranians. The Iranian people are clearly the focal point of the story, not Obama.

That may be because left wingers, be they on blogs or comment pages, tend to just watch and look at things, whereas right wingers, be they on blogs or comment pages, ask questions and remember (see lawhawk's post above) other countries, other cases, where a word from the American President (who has not always been OBAMA!) might have helped, or averted a bad situation.
Unfortunatley, the Presidents whose words did help were 'right wing' presidents ...
Reagan, for example ...

As many Lizards ahve pointed out here already - this is not about Obama, this is about the President of the United States, the most powerful country in the world, standing for freedom, regardless of what the raving moonbats would have us believe.

792 Blackacre  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:31:20pm

re: #774 Iron Fist

Thank you, sir.

793 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:31:25pm

re: #765 DisturbedEma

Maybe he could pretend he is lying about American troops in Iraq. . .
//

Yeah, he could muster enthusiasim for that.

794 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:31:55pm

re: #789 restitutor orbis

Freedom; I don't that word means what you think it means.

795 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:32:35pm

You people are missing the forest for the trees. It takes balls to sit back and do nothing.

sarc

796 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:32:41pm

re: #782 Killgore Trout

Statements and action are not the same thing. We have no idea what actions are taking place.

Well, I'm fucking glad that GEORGE BUSH made statements after 9-11, AND took some fucking action. That's two too nothing. He's batting 200 percent compared to Barry Obama.

797 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:32:44pm

OT ,,,, DAMN, it sucks being me

For the next 7 or so hours, I have to take off of satellite and feed to Tuner Broadcasting the 2009 Miss Hooters International Swimsuit Pageant
COMPLETE with open cameras/ microphones of back stage shots!

sigh !

//

798 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:32:49pm

re: #776 alegrias

Supporting the Toppling of Iran would save US tax dollars citizens in the short & long run.
It's the right thing to do for many reasons.

Another reason.

799 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:33:02pm

re: #721 iceweasel

That's exactly what's happening. This isn't about us.

I got downdinged for suggesting just that, but I'd like to know exactly what a POTUS should say beyond what he did from someone.

800 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:33:03pm

re: #785 guftafs

The kinds of things we might be doing would be similar to things previously done in Iraq and Afghanistan. Calling generals, mullahs and politicians on their cell phones or delivering satellite phones to them. Bribes, misinformation misdirection. Feeding intelligence to protest leaders about police movements, putting people in contact with each other, sharing information. The CIA has been wargaming scenarios like this for decades. There tons of stuff they can be done and we are probably doing it.

801 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:33:21pm

re: #797 sattv4u2

OT ,,,, DAMN, it sucks being me

For the next 7 or so hours, I have to take off of satellite and feed to Tuner Turner Broadcasting the 2009 Miss Hooters International Swimsuit Pageant
COMPLETE with open cameras/ microphones of back stage shots!

sigh !

//

pimf

802 Cathypop  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:33:33pm

re: #790 Iron Fist

You aould support Obama if he gave a horse a blow-job on the White house lawn. You wouldn't condemn him if he sacrificed a child to the Devil on that same lawn.

Ypu are a wholelly owned subsidiary of Obama. Why would we expect anything other than support for Obama from you?

And why should we give it any more credit than we do a beer bilboard? Your posts have become meaningless.


Gazzillion up-dings!

803 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:33:36pm
804 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:33:59pm

If true, it sounds like they may be throwing grenades now:

aliwesker: they throw grenande in SATTAKHRAN avenue killed a girl and wounded some people #iranelection #gr88 #iranelection

805 Dad O' Blondes  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:34:07pm

Radio reports on WCBS AM 880 in New York City are saying that Khameni "annulled" the Iranian election results.

Is this confirmed anywhere?

Apologies if this is old news here...

.

806 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:34:12pm

re: #794 jcm

Freedom; I don't that word means what you think it means.

It is the New hope infused freedom- the freedom to be slaughtered in the streets in full view of the world, with hand wringing present voting empty suit offering kind words of. . .vapid praise and scolding. . .

807 MacDuff  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:34:49pm

Re: restitutor orbis

One last observation before I go. For such a disciple of President Hopenchange, I couldn't get over what a deeply cynical, gloomy and dispairing individual he/she is.

Perhaps a booster dose of unicorn farts would improve the shitty attitude.

808 pink freud  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:34:53pm

re: #797 sattv4u2

OT ,,,, DAMN, it sucks being me

For the next 7 or so hours, I have to take off of satellite and feed to Tuner Broadcasting the 2009 Miss Hooters International Swimsuit Pageant
COMPLETE with open cameras/ microphones of back stage shots!

sigh !

//

You hang tough, Sattv. You'll make it through this somehow.

/Grit your teeth, summon your determination ......
/We're pulling for ya!

809 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:35:15pm
810 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:35:37pm

re: #805 Dad O' Blondes

Radio reports on WCBS AM 880 in New York City are saying that Khameni "annulled" the Iranian election results.

Is this confirmed anywhere?

Apologies if this is old news here...

.

Hasn't been tweeted by anyone in Iran, so far.

811 CyanSnowHawk  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:35:46pm

This is just a hit and run before lunch, but I found the funniest thing I've seen from Jib-Jab in a long time a few minutes ago and had to share. Also posted in the links.

Enjoy.

812 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:35:53pm

re: #796 Walter L. Newton

Well, I'm fucking glad that GEORGE BUSH made statements after 9-11, AND took some fucking action. That's two too nothing. He's batting 200 percent compared to Barry Obama.


Ahhhh, yes, the good old days where he was hounded for taking TOO LONG to make a statement. . .a few hours. . .

813 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:36:25pm

re: #788 iceweasel

Absolutely. Some people insist that Obama is an empty suit whose words have no meaning and power. They're often the very same people who think that just a few words from him will somehow have the magical effect of bringing democracy to Iran.

The right wing blogs are caught in this peculiar state of cognitive dissonance, wanting simultaneously to rag on Obama for being completely weak and incompetent, yet also invest him with the magic power of complete control over what's happening in Iran if he only says the right magic words.

I guess it's too much to ask for anybody to say what he means and mean what he says... and actually do something he said he would do. There's oodles of evidence (and a history of not doing anything) to warrant the criticism and reputation. Don't shoot the messenger, and worse, don't ridicule or or point out the people for being idiotic for continuing to request that he say something of meaning and actually stand behind it with action. That's displacement.

814 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:36:53pm

re: #807 MacDuff

Re: restitutor orbis

One last observation before I go. For such a disciple of President Hopenchange, I couldn't get over what a deeply cynical, gloomy and dispairing individual he/she is.

Perhaps a booster dose of unicorn farts would improve the shitty attitude.

I would suggest that only IV of same can help with this one- topical no longer effective. . .

815 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:37:10pm

3:31 PM ET -- "It was a war." Another email from a contact in Iran:

You couldn't imagin what I saw tonight, I walked down many streets(Vali asr, keshavars, amir abad, Fatemi, Shademan, Satarkhan, Khosro), and I was injured by tears gas, but the main thing : The big killer group, called "Basij", weared our special military service group -"Sepah"- dresses and they were all armed , I saw by myself one of them had only around 15 years old! and he had the shot order! I saw a girl injured by gon shot (in Amir abad St.)! and there weren't enough ambulances . I walked through Shademan St. they start shooting , a young boy in front of my eyes murdered , and 3 other people were injured , there were also a big fight between people and Basij at Tohid Sq. 7 people was murdered there, I walked from my company to my home , It was taken 4 hours and I couldn't be able to make a video , cause I was in the middle of war!


These might be the military looking guys we were discussing this morning.

816 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:37:16pm

re: #808 pink freud

You hang tough, Sattv. You'll make it through this somehow.

/Grit your teeth, summon your determination ......
/We're pulling for ya!

depends on what I see ,, I may be pulling ,,, umm,,,, errr,, nevahmind!

817 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:37:28pm

re: #794 jcm

Freedom; I don't that word means what you think it means.

The Iraqis had freedom, and they chose to slaughter each other...........
Thank God we were there to keep it from turning into genocide. what do you think would have happened had we let them enjoy their new found freedom unimpeded

818 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:37:28pm

Who's wants action on betting me that Obama is playing Golf right now...?

819 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:37:40pm

re: #788 iceweasel

Absolutely. Some people insist that Obama is an empty suit whose words have no meaning and power. They're often the very same people who think that just a few words from him will somehow have the magical effect of bringing democracy to Iran.

The right wing blogs are caught in this peculiar state of cognitive dissonance, wanting simultaneously to rag on Obama for being completely weak and incompetent, yet also invest him with the magic power of complete control over what's happening in Iran if he only says the right magic words.

You know, that arguement cuts both ways. Many BHO supporters are so invested in him that they see him as being able to bend people to his will. Some actually see him as almost magical. Yet those same people will give him a pass for being tepid while people are being brutilized, cause you know he can't ruffle feathers.

820 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:37:50pm
821 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:38:43pm

re: #817 restitutor orbis


WTF? Are you medicated? This is beyond ignorant

822 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:38:49pm

re: #771 Killgore Trout

I think this is why the right wing coverage of the Iran story has been so poor. Right wing blogs tend to focus on Obama while left wing blogs (like Huffpo) are focusing on the Iranians. The Iranian people are clearly the focal point of the story, not Obama.

I think many of us wonder how we could provide moral support.

823 lawhawk  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:39:21pm

re: #788 iceweasel

He would be weak and ineffective if he says and does nothing on Iran. His past actions show that he's more than willing to piss away American projection of power by apologizing for anything and everything to anyone and everyone regardless of the circumstances or the effect it has on current and future allies or potential allies. Enemies see this as weakness.

Iran's thugs in charge would still engage in a crackdown. I have no doubt of that. But words of support and encouragement for protesters hoping to see that their vote means something might take root not just in Iran but elsewhere around the world.

He will fail on the issue of Iran by saying nothing. He has a chance for success if he speaks. Words may have repercussions far in excess of the meager words of support to the current protesters. You look forward - beyond the instant situation.

After all, if the regime retains power and cracks down brutally on the protesters, how is our diplomatic stance affected? It isn't. If anything, the Iranians would be even more aggressive in the face of dithering and silent assent. If the protesters succeed, then there's a possibility for a real breakthrough that which the Administration can and would take full credit. How is that a situation from which the Administration shrinks from?

824 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:39:38pm

Out of here, going to work, going to make funny at the theatre tonight. Thank goodness we're doing another comedy, I don't think I could work through a drama tonight...

I WILL BE MAKING COMMENTS ABOUT THE BRAVE IRANIAN PEOPLE ALL DAY, TO ANYONE WHO WILL LISTEN TO ME, EVEN OBAMA IF I SHOULD TRIp OVER HIM.

825 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:39:47pm

re: #789 restitutor orbis

This is the issue for the Iranians to settle. the best we can do is take a hands off approach, and put our support behind that leader that truly represents our interests.

The hands off approach has been working for the US and greater free world with Iran for how long now? It's working in North Korea, working with Iranian nukes, etc.

We haven't tried that with Israel yet, maybe we should take a hands off approach there, no?

826 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:39:49pm

The swing of the pipe wrench.

827 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:40:04pm

re: #820 Iron Fist

That was Bush. You have to understand that this is Obama. See the difference? The Difference is the President that the Media likes.


Wish they would collectively remove his schwantz from their &^% and report news again. . .

828 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:40:16pm

'Omid007: Haft Hooz SQ. is on fire, Protesters are so angry and try to push back Bassij with Coctel Molotov...'
(Tehranbureau)

I'm more and more reminded of Hungary 1956.

829 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:41:11pm

re: #817 restitutor orbis

I'm not sure whats wrong with you, but I bet it's hard to spell!

830 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:41:32pm

those are crickets dear leader. . . nothing to worry about. . .//

831 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:41:45pm
832 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:42:20pm

re: #811 CyanSnowHawk

Brilliant.

833 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:42:21pm
834 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:42:29pm

re: #810 yma o hyd

Hasn't been tweeted by anyone in Iran, so far.

I think I saw it tweeted at the site that was showing 3 tweet threads in real time.
Had to shut that off, as it was using all CPU cycles. Somebody here has the URL.

835 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:42:38pm

re: #828 yma o hyd

'Omid007: Haft Hooz SQ. is on fire, Protesters are so angry and try to push back Bassij with Coctel Molotov...'
(Tehranbureau)

I'm more and more reminded of Hungary 1956.

It's to the reform movement's credit that the Molotov cocktails haven't come out long before this.

836 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:43:08pm
837 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:43:11pm

re: #817 restitutor orbis

1861–1865 nullifies our freedom?

838 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:43:38pm

re: #799 avanti

I got downdinged for suggesting just that, but I'd like to know exactly what a POTUS should say beyond what he did from someone.

It is a mystery! I'm getting downdinged all over this thread for pointing out that there were good reasons for Obama to be cautious in making any statements, but it's worth noting that many protesters and Iranian human rights groups didn't want him to make a stronger statement.

It will also be an inconvenient truth to many that The National Iranian-American Council, which has played a leading role in publicizing and distributing information on the Iranian opposition this past week, opposed that House resolution:

Though of course everyone supports free and fair democracies, Iran is a country in flux at the moment. If US political figures come out in strong support for Mousavi, then what? Won’t Ahmadinejad just use that to declare Mousavi is a puppet of the West? That certainly won’t do much to help the cause for reform in Iran.

BTW-- NIAC's blog has been a good source for liveblogging the protests in Iran, if people want another site to follow.

[Link: niacblog.wordpress.com...]

839 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:44:10pm

re: #831 Iron Fist

I don't rag on Iceweasel because I like her. She's easy to get along with. She's easy to like. That's just me. I'm not disagreeing with you, either. I'm just commenting on the comments.

I might have been drinking a little, here on a Saturday afternoon, too.

:-)


Your point is taken. It was not my intention to rag on her , only to say that you can't have it both ways. I apologise to her if my comments were rude.

840 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:44:15pm

re: #825 BigPapa

The hands off approach has been working for the US and greater free world with Iran for how long now? It's working in North Korea, working with Iranian nukes, etc.

We haven't tried that with Israel yet, maybe we should take a hands off approach there, no?

So we should intervene, militarily in this revolution. You ready to sign on the dotted line, pal?

841 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:44:15pm

re: #783 opnion

I didn't see anyone say that he could bring down the Iranian government. I could have missed it.
The point is that the American President should offer unequivocal moral support for people trying to be free.
He has no problem condemning Israel, but is meek when it comes to breaking bad on the oppressive Iranian Regime & has actually made comments in support of that regime

Excellent point, and that's exactly what he's been doing, but free people voted for both guys and we need to let them sort out who won.

842 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:45:22pm

re: #837 jcm

Don't disturb the arrogance of the Educated Elite with rationality.

843 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:45:29pm

re: #834 Son of the Black Dog

I think I saw it tweeted at the site that was showing 3 tweet threads in real time.
Had to shut that off, as it was using all CPU cycles. Somebody here has the URL.

Thats TweetGrid - it drives me to distraction, its so fast, but so much is just bouncing abck and frth between tweeters, most of whicha ren't even in iran, that I'm not keen on it.
Also - they don't say what is rumour and what isn't.

I'm sticking with the few good tweeters I've been following since Monday. They didn't bring this.

844 albusteve  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:45:58pm

re: #831 Iron Fist

I don't rag on Iceweasel because I like her. She's easy to get along with. She's easy to like. That's just me. I'm not disagreeing with you, either. I'm just commenting on the comments.

I might have been drinking a little, here on a Saturday afternoon, too.

:-)

some of us may feel differently and for a reason...anyway here's to us!

846 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:47:03pm

"Help me Obama-Won-Kenobi, you're our only Hope"
- People of Iran

"I think I'll sit back and see how this plays out. Wouldn't want to meddle"
- Obama

"Meddle away motherf#c$er! This payback for 1979!"
- America

847 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:47:04pm

re: #834 Son of the Black Dog

I think I saw it tweeted at the site that was showing 3 tweet threads in real time.
Had to shut that off, as it was using all CPU cycles. Somebody here has the URL.

Found it:
[Link: tweetgrid.com...]

848 opnion  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:47:18pm

re: #841 avanti

Excellent point, and that's exactly what he's been doing, but free people voted for both guys and we need to let them sort out who won.


The election was rigged. The challenger lost his own hometown?
More people voted than were registered. The winner was declared within four hours of the poll closures & thes were paper ballots?
Is this Iran or Chicago?

849 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:47:27pm

re: #842 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Don't disturb the arrogance of the Educated Elite with rationality.

Thank you, you're right, I shouldn't be so rude.

///

850 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:47:43pm

re: #823 lawhawk


He will fail on the issue of Iran by saying nothing. He has a chance for success if he speaks. Words may have repercussions far in excess of the meager words of support to the current protesters. You look forward - beyond the instant situation.

Yes, but words alone aren't enough.

I'm hoping there's a lot of covert action going on. For one thing, it would be very wise for Obama to be quietly persuading other countries -- from France to Turkey to Germany to whoever-- to be making statements of support; that way US condemnation of the regime can appear to also be part of a broad international consensus, as opposed to looking like the US wants to dictate what should happen in Iran.

851 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:47:48pm
852 yma o hyd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:48:02pm

Well, Lizards, i better tear meself away now: my eyes have become square, and the dogs want entertaining for a bit!

Seeya tomorrow, all being well.

May God protect the brave people of Iran, fighting for their freedom!

853 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:48:05pm

"I realize now I do not fear death. I fear my daughter will not be free when I die " #iranelection #gr88

854 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:49:13pm

re: #845 Ojoe

Beautiful. Light rain here just below.

855 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:49:19pm

re: #840 restitutor orbis

So we should intervene, militarily in this revolution. You ready to sign on the dotted line, pal?

Intervening militarily is not a practical or pragmatic solution at this point. Don't put forth the fallacy, it's a false choice.

The case is being made that a more substantial statement from the US supporting the democratic process for the Iranian people and more strongly condemning the crackdown would be in order. The alternate suggestions so far have been either tenuous or vaccuous.

We don't necessarily need to throw support or look like we're supporting Mousavi, thatt's also a false choice.

856 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:49:21pm

re: #831 Iron Fist

I don't rag on Iceweasel because I like her. She's easy to get along with. She's easy to like. That's just me. I'm not disagreeing with you, either. I'm just commenting on the comments.

I might have been drinking a little, here on a Saturday afternoon, too.

:-)

Maybe that's why we get along-- the drinking. :)

Cheers, IF!

857 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:49:33pm

re: #841 avanti

Excellent point, and that's exactly what he's been doing, but free people voted for both guys and we need to let them sort out who won.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SMOKING.

There are no free people in Iran yet.
The election was a fraud, get it. F R A U D.
The United States of American supporting freedom and self determination is not interfering.

858 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:49:48pm

re: #839 opnion

Your point is taken. It was not my intention to rag on her , only to say that you can't have it both ways. I apologise to her if my comments were rude.

your comments weren't rude. you don't have to apologize for anything.

859 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:50:07pm

re: #853 SurferDoc

"I realize now I do not fear death. I fear my daughter will not be free when I die " #iranelection #gr88

Baruch Dayan Emes. . .and best wishes, since that is all my zero talent leader is authorized to send

860 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:50:10pm
861 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:50:56pm

re: #841 avanti

Excellent point, and that's exactly what he's been doing, but free people voted for both guys and we need to let them sort out who won.

FREE PEOPLE? You're out of your ever-loving, fuckin' commie mind.

862 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:51:16pm

re: #849 jcm

Thank you, you're right, I shouldn't be so rude.

///

But you ARE permitted to direct a Bronx cheer at your monitor.

/*duck*

/that goddam DOG's gonna show up in his reply, I just KNOW it!

863 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:51:17pm

re: #853 SurferDoc

"I realize now I do not fear death. I fear my daughter will not be free when I die " #iranelection #gr88

That tweet has been floating around since Tuesday I think.

864 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:51:25pm

re: #861 MandyManners

FREE PEOPLE? You're out of your ever-loving, fuckin' commie mind.

Why yes, Mandy, he is.

865 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:51:53pm

re: #840 restitutor orbis

You ready to sign on the dotted line, pal?

And BTW, though this is OT: you sure don't seem to be saying 'pal' from friendship or respect. If that's what you're trying to gain here, then maybe call me pal once I get your humor or nuanced sarc, even if we disagree.

If you're not here for friendship or respect, keep it up. As one lizard to another.

866 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:51:55pm

re: #860 Iron Fist

Maybe the MEK will seriously activate...

867 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:52:06pm
868 pink freud  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:52:25pm

re: #861 MandyManners

FREE PEOPLE? You're out of your ever-loving, fuckin' commie mind.

They just don't get it. Full stop.

869 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:52:30pm

re: #861 MandyManners

FREE PEOPLE? You're out of your ever-loving, fuckin' commie mind.

The delusion is deep today.

870 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:52:48pm

re: #860 Iron Fist

and something visible could make the difference right now.

Airstrike on their bomb factories while they are distracted.

If I were POTUS I'd order it.

Let us not make the mistakes of the 1930s all over again.

871 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:52:49pm

Search the page for "Obama". Well over 200 mentions.

872 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:52:56pm

re: #839 opnion

Your point is taken. It was not my intention to rag on her , only to say that you can't have it both ways. I apologise to her if my comments were rude.

You weren't rude at all. You were pointing out that some of Obama's supporters love him no matter what and can't handle criticism.

That's orthogonal to the point I was making about the rightwing blogs coverage of Iran, but as it happens I agree with you. Obama does have a personality cult, and there are people who objected strenuously to decisions and policies implemented by Bush, who now have no problem whatsoever when Obama continues those policies or makes similar decisions.

I'm not a member of Obama's cheering squad. And I think personality cults are bad for a democracy. I didn't like the slavish followers of Bush (and yes, he did have some), and I don't like the slavish followers of Obama.

873 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:53:11pm

re: #864 DisturbedEma

Why yes, Mandy, he is.

I'm at a loss as to how he could call them "free".

874 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:53:15pm

re: #869 Racer X

The delusion is deep today.

The denial is strong in hopenchange land today. . .

875 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:53:22pm
876 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:53:32pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton


In the least, knowledge that the free people of the world are behind them.

They know that. You want what makes you feel good, not what helps them the most. The Mullahs have Allah behind them. Obvious enemies only makes them stronger.

As I said, the time will come when the gloves can and should come off. Shooting your wad early does more harm than good.

877 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:53:45pm

re: #848 opnion

The election was rigged. The challenger lost his own hometown?
More people voted than were registered. The winner was declared within four hours of the poll closures & thes were paper ballots?
Is this Iran or Chicago?

opinion -

Losing the home front in an election is nothing new - Al Gore managed to do that. Losing by 2 to 1 at home is something else again - that has more than a whiff of fraud to it.

-S-

878 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:53:49pm

re: #861 MandyManners

FREE PEOPLE? You're out of your ever-loving, fuckin' commie mind.

exactly, that whole"election" was a scam. the fix was in from the get go.
the mullahs picked those 'candidates' and then picked who o they wanted to
'win'.
this was no free election by free people.
what b.s.

879 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:53:55pm

We heard the same voices of "caution" when RWR proclaimed the USSR an Evil Empire destined for the ash heap of history and when he challenged them to "tear down this "wall."

Caution was warned when Churchill warned of the gathering storm.

What is history's judgement of caution in the face of evil?

880 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:03pm
881 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:07pm

re: #837 jcm

1861–1865 nullifies our freedom?

I don't blame the downdingers, they are just frustrated with what's going on. The fact that there is little we can do that would not make a bad situation worse does not defuse that feeling. In a perfect world the POTUS would say a few words, and not only would the election be nullified, but Iran would become a land of peace and honey under a new western loving leader.

882 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:11pm

re: #868 pink freud

They just don't get it. Full stop.

re: #869 Racer X

The delusion is deep today.

Same with iceweasel for up-dinging him.

883 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:30pm

re: #871 Killgore Trout

Search the page for "Obama". Well over 200 mentions.

Ask the people in Iran what they would like to see The American President say and do.

884 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:35pm

re: #873 MandyManners

I'm at a loss as to how he could call them "free".

Same way he can look at ACORN and say "they do such good work, let them have the census." Sargent Schultz. . .he sees nothing

885 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:39pm

re: #867 Iron Fist

{iceweasel}

Love ya, love ya, love ya. Even if I don't agree with you on much of anything!

Hee! I know, it's mutual! I hardly agree with you on anything, but I love ya!

{iron fist}

886 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:40pm

"Free" and "Iranians" are not two words seen together ... maybe soon though

887 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:54:50pm

re: #855 BigPapa


We don't necessarily need to throw support or look like we're supporting Mousavi, thatt's also a false choice.

Thank you! thats the smartest thing I've heard all day.

888 brookly red  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:55:01pm

re: #873 MandyManners

I'm at a loss as to how he could call them "free".

/maybe he means they got nothing to lose ?

889 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:55:22pm

re: #875 Iron Fist

You know, free people. The ones with the gun to their head. Those free people.

Oh, *those* free people.

890 DisturbedEma  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:55:43pm

re: #876 Naso Tang

They know that. You want what makes you feel good, not what helps them the most. The Mullahs have Allah behind them. Obvious enemies only makes them stronger.

As I said, the time will come when the gloves can and should come off. Shooting your wad early does more harm than good.

ewww

891 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:56:22pm

re: #867 Iron Fist

{iceweasel}

Love ya, love ya, love ya. Even if I don't agree with you on much of anything!

LOL, are you familiar w/ the iron fist rule? ;)
btw what are you imbibing?
do drink sensibly even if you don't post sensibly.

892 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:56:41pm

re: #841 avanti

Excellent point, and that's exactly what he's been doing, but free people voted for both guys and we need to let them sort out who won.

Avanti,

I stay out of these lovefests, but in this case I'd like to point out that the evidence of blatant corruption of the election results (circumstantial as it might be at this point) is pretty much overwhelming. The Supreme Leader has also made it quite clear that he's in no way interested in sorting out anything.

In my opinion, this raises the game to a completely different level.

893 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:57:15pm

re: #890 DisturbedEma

ewww

A wad is what you put between the powder and the bullet, not what you think........

894 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:57:22pm

re: #879 jcm

What is history's judgement of caution in the face of evil?

How many times has history shown that a great evil ended up blowing over and a few went against the grain, when e'rbody else was up in arrears, saying 'it will blow over, don't worry about it.'

895 SlartyBartfast  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:57:29pm

The POTUS shouldn't pitch-in behind Mousavi--he should speak out against the Mullahs!

Nukes in the hands of a government of a free society are one thing. Nukes in the hands of out-of-control, nut-job, Islamist dictators is something else entirely!

This uprising indicates (to all but the basest observer) that we're dealing with the latter.

Wake up, Barry!

896 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:57:29pm

The worst thing that can happen is the people of Iran get beaten down and give up. The mullahs get stronger. Iran becomes more dangerous to the rest of the world.

We must strike now. Whatever it takes. Bring them down.

897 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:58:21pm

"Rodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."

/Princess Bride now on ABC/Family

898 Rexatosis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:58:32pm

The rhetorical position (or lack thereof) of the Obama Administration will not have any real impact on the events currently occuring in Iran. However the rhetorical position is important with regard to positioning the United States vis-a-vis Iran in the future. President Obama's rather tepid and limited response does little to foster any kind of tactical or strategic position related to Iran down the road. President Obama's policy of engagement is in tatters due to events (though one may argue the policy was based on a fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of the theocratic regime in Iran). The current lack of vigorous defense of democratic principles in this case will not benefit the United States in negotiations or relations with Iran if the current "dictatorship" is overthrown nor will it help if the Mullahs hold power. The current position of the Obama Administration is very weak and will not help the United States vis-a-vis Iran, nor inspire confidence in the Obama Administration in Iraq, Afghanistan, among our Allies, etc. One can either lead or follow, President Obama seems to have choosen not to rhetorically lead in this case. I see no benefit from this policy choice.

899 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:58:54pm

re: #881 avanti

I don't blame the downdingers, they are just frustrated with what's going on. The fact that there is little we can do ...

Yes, there is a little we can do. We're doing it. How about Obama do a little to? He's not really doing anything, only because he has to.

He's not managing the situation, he's reacting to it's consequences.

900 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:59:02pm

re: #894 BigPapa

How many times has history shown that a great evil ended up blowing over and a few went against the grain, when e'rbody else was up in arrears, saying 'it will blow over, don't worry about it.'

Maybe it blew over because it was recognized and challenged early by those few who went against the grain.

901 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:59:46pm

re: #841 avanti

Excellent point, and that's exactly what he's been doing, but free people voted for both guys and we need to let them sort out who won.

You might be the only person on earth who would call the Iranian people "free".

902 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:59:48pm

re: #883 Racer X

Ask the people in Iran what they would like to see The American President say and do.


I've seen a variety of opinion from posters on twitter. Mousavi's spokesman said yesterday that though Obama's approach of not giving the mullah's a soundbite was the best strategy.
Just to clarify my position: I was a Rudy guy. I would love to have Rudy as President and hear wht he would say about the situation. Chances are it would be nothing like Obama's statement. However, I have the ability to understand there is logic in other approaches. It's not a black and white situation. Also, Reagan's speech didn't bring down the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union. He did keep real world pressure on them until they collapsed from internal political and economic forces. They would have collapsed with or without his speech.

903 SlartyBartfast  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 12:59:50pm

re: #898 Rexatosis

Bravo! Well said!

904 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:00:14pm

re: #853 SurferDoc

"I realize now I do not fear death. I fear my daughter will not be free when I die " #iranelection #gr88

Our daughters should not face a life spent inside a black sack.

905 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:00:38pm
906 SurferDoc  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:00:43pm

re: #904 debutaunt

Our daughters should not face a life spent inside a black sack.

So say we all.

907 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:01:20pm

re: #887 restitutor orbis

We don't necessarily need to throw support or look like we're supporting Mousavi, thatt's also a false choice.

Thank you! thats the smartest thing I've heard all day.

Was it smart in the context of my entire post, or excluding the entire post?

908 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:01:34pm

re: #848 opnion

The election was rigged. The challenger lost his own hometown?
More people voted than were registered. The winner was declared within four hours of the poll closures & thes were paper ballots?
Is this Iran or Chicago?

Assume it was rigged, but no one expected Dinnerjacket to loose, so the margin of victory may have been too large, but no ones knows what the true result would have been. We should support the right of the Iranians to peacefully protest, but we have no idea which side to support, especially since there is very little difference in their foreign policy, or nuke goals or for that matter, who won.

909 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:02:01pm
910 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:02:20pm

re: #905 Iron Fist

I've been drinking 100 proof Evan Williams, so I'm probably not sensible. I'm having fun, though :-)

i'm so happy to hear that. :D
cheers {IronFist}

911 pink freud  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:02:44pm

re: #901 Sharmuta

You might be the only person on earth who would call the Iranian people "free".

Don't forget his one lone upding.

912 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:03:38pm

I say meddle away mother$u@ker, meddle away!

Bring the mullahs down. Whatever it takes. Payback from 1979.

913 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:03:50pm

re: #907 BigPapa

It was "smart" only in that he/she/it thinks it's a way to win the argument.

/sham debating tactic -- diversion

914 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:05:45pm

re: #911 pink freud

Don't forget his one lone upding.

Avanti clarified his thought here.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

915 NY Nana  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:05:52pm

Drive-by post:

A Cry From Iran:

[Link: www.tangle.com...]

Here is more info.

916 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:05:54pm

re: #911 pink freud

Don't forget his one lone upding.

I just fixed that for him.

917 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:06:45pm

re: #913 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It was "smart" only in that he/she/it thinks it's a way to win the argument.

/sham debating tactic -- diversion

I'm giving Restitutor the benefit of the doubt, although you might be right. He called me pal after all.... :)

918 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:07:08pm

re: #908 avanti

All their elections are rigged, given that only those who toe the line are allowed to run and that includes the challenger in this case.

However it makes for interesting speculation on whether he is the man he seemed to be in order to be in the game, or whether he really is of a more liberal bent and willing to "martyr" himself for this cause. His wish may not be far away and whatever the outcome I doubt that he will be allowed to run again.

919 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:07:40pm

re: #914 iceweasel

Avanti clarified his thought here.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

You two are not paying attention. This is morphing into a whole different animal! The folks want FREEDOM and we should support them.

920 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:07:49pm

I'm not seeing a downside with Obama meddling in Iran. What? The mullahs hate us more?

The upside is the people of the revolution know they have an ally.

921 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:08:19pm

re: #892 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Avanti,

I stay out of these lovefests, but in this case I'd like to point out that the evidence of blatant corruption of the election results (circumstantial as it might be at this point) is pretty much overwhelming. The Supreme Leader has also made it quite clear that he's in no way interested in sorting out anything.

In my opinion, this raises the game to a completely different level.

Do you know who won, and by what margin ? We may be certain there was corruption, but did it change the outcome ? What do we do with that information other then support the right to peaceful protest. I see lots of bitching about the worlds reaction, but very little about how it could be better done.

922 Lynn B.  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:08:48pm
"We're for freedom of speech everywhere. We're for freedom to worship everywhere. We're for freedom to learn, for everybody. And because in our time, you can build a bomb in your country and bring it to my country, what goes on in your country is very much my business. And so we are for freedom from tyranny, everywhere, whether in the guise of political oppression, Toby, or economic slavery, Josh, or religious fanaticism, C.J. That most fundamental idea cannot be met with merely our support. It has to be met with our strength. Diplomatically, economically, materially..... No country has ever had a doctrine of intervention when only humanitarian interests were at stake. That streak's gonna end Sunday at noon. So if you're on board with this, what I need you to do---"

"President Jeb Bartlet," hero of liberals everywhere, West Wing, Season Four, Inauguration: Over There

923 debutaunt  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:09:22pm

re: #908 avanti

Assume it was rigged, but no one expected Dinnerjacket to loose, so the margin of victory may have been too large, but no ones knows what the true result would have been. We should support the right of the Iranians to peacefully protest, but we have no idea which side to support, especially since there is very little difference in their foreign policy, or nuke goals or for that matter, who won.

The word 'loose' does not mean what you think it does.

924 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:09:59pm

re: #922 Lynn B.

"President Jeb Bartlet," hero of liberals everywhere, West Wing, Season Four, Inauguration: Over There

A work of fiction, I'm afraid.

925 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:10:44pm
926 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:10:54pm

re: #905 Iron Fist

I've been drinking 100 proof Evan Williams, so I'm probably not sensible. I'm having fun, though :-)

Iron Fist -

Other than the hour, which is a bit early for "the Doc" - drinking Evan Williams on a Saturday seems sensible enough for me. 'l'chayim.

-S-

927 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:11:56pm

re: #921 avanti

Like our President, you seem to be ignoring the protesters cries of "Where is Obama?"

928 Enkidu90046  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:12:12pm

One thing that occurs to my Machiavellian mind, given the turmoil going on in Iran right now, is that this would be the perfect time for a military strike against Iran's nuclear facilities. If only we didn't have a gutless President. Heck, the United States doesn't even have to do it. We can just take the shackles off of Israel and let them do what needs to be done (and provide the necessary intelligence and logistical support).

Yes, a strike right now might stop the uprising in its tracks (an external enemy has a way of bringing everyone together). But regardless of who ultimately prevails in this power struggle, it isn't like Iran's nuclear ambitions will change in any way and I doubt its support of Hezbollah will change in any way (or any of the other terror organizations and terror states Iran supports).

Too bad it is all just a dream... our President cannot even muster a speech blasting Iran's leadership and supporting the protesters. Authorizing a military strike (even through an ally) is well beyond the capabilities of his incredibly weak backbone.

929 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:12:56pm

This is interesting: a reader writing in to AS:

So here's what we have:

They're afraid of murdering too many protesters all at once. Eventually the protesters will come to understand how to work around this.

They can't open their telecomm pipes, because the minute they do 3 million people will know how and where to gather, and the world will get to see thousands of videos showing horrific instances of state violence against its subjects.

They have to open their telecomm pipes, because their economy cannot function without telecomm.

They can't repress too much, because the cleric support base will tip against them.

Rafsanjani is waiting to find out who'll keep his financial empire running. He's going to come to conclude the current leadership's promises cannot be trusted; the country is now being run by a Fascist Islamic Mafia.

So what do they do?

They turn this into a keystone-cops gulag, and still, no matter how they try to block it, the entire world is watching, and international disapproval is growing. At some point even life in Syria or Egypt will start to look better. The leadership will become ostracized in the Muslim world, and a large and influential Islamic country like Indonesia will come out with a public condemnation. Then other nations will feel emboldened. Even worse, Ahmadinejad, and to some extent even Khamenei, will now have a difficult time making uncontrolled appearances where the crowds are not bused from towns 100 miles away; every time they show up, crowds will chant them down.

These citizens are done with their leadership. The trust has completely and irretrievably dissipated, and the fear, although present, is not sufficient, especially as it becomes more clear the army will remain on the sidelines. And the mullahs have opened all the playbooks on repression and crowd control simultaneously; it's a smorgasboard attempt at blocking the rising tide of resentment; if you'll recall, that's called the mullah's-ass-on-a-pressure-cooker-lid-to-retard-fulmination rule. If things look bad with the pressure cooker, piling more mullahs on the lid will only result in a more spectacular finish.

If the Warsaw Ghetto uprising had been broadcast to the entire world, Hitler's demise most surely would have come several years sooner. The mullahs have no way out. They are, essentially, fucked. It's now only a matter of time. And Iran's negotiations on their nuclear program? Suspended indefinitely due to lack of credibility; nobody will believe anything they say now.

TICK, TOCK, MOTHERFUCKERS...

930 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:12:59pm
931 annar  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:13:17pm

re: #848 opnion

The election was rigged. The challenger lost his own hometown?
More people voted than were registered. The winner was declared within four hours of the poll closures & thes were paper ballots?
Is this Iran or Chicago?

Isn't it nice to know that the influence of the late Richard J. Daley Sr. has found its ultimate redemption in ayatollah land? Remember they did not have the advantage of sitting at the feet of the great man's son as did the One.

932 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:14:49pm

re: #921 avanti

Fascinating insight to your morals

We may be certain there was corruption, but did it change the outcome

It's okay to cheat, as long as it doesn't change the final outcome. There's no difference in losing 10-1 or 10-9, as long as the one that cheated an extra 8 points didn't "win"

wow ,,,, just ,, wow

933 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:15:01pm

re: #917 BigPapa

I'm giving Restitutor the benefit of the doubt, although you might be right. He called me pal after all.... :)

His use of "pal" was sarcastic.

934 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:15:10pm

re: #919 VegasRick

You two are not paying attention. This is morphing into a whole different animal! The folks want FREEDOM and we should support them.

exactly,
freedom never goes out of style,
except for thugs who want to take it away.
it is obvious who o should be supporting.

935 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:16:15pm
936 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:17:17pm

re: #921 avanti

Do you know who won, and by what margin ? We may be certain there was corruption, but did it change the outcome ? What do we do with that information other then support the right to peaceful protest. I see lots of bitching about the worlds reaction, but very little about how it could be better done.

It a fucking thugocracy, kapish?
The elections are Potemkin Village production so [deleted] will say, "Oh look, a free people voted." then not worry their little heads about the misery and horror in places like Iran, 'cause, well the people voted.

937 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:17:51pm

I wonder what Gen. Petraeus is thinking today, about how insurgents can help topple mullahs.

I wonder what our US and Iraqi troops are thinking today.

938 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:18:24pm

re: #917 BigPapa

No, that was a generally sincere statement.

Look, I want to see Ajad and gang burn as much as the next guy, I am just urging caution with breaking out the "Hey, freedom has broken out and everything is hunky dory" champagne. Revolutions can get, well, revolution-ey and we have no idea how it will turn out.
As far as Obama goes, he should support the protesters against the current regime, but beyond that, not much more, at least until someone emerges who we can really work with.
If i were Obama, I would be thinking more of N. Korea

939 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:19:26pm

re: #928 Enkidu90046

One thing that occurs to my Machiavellian mind, given the turmoil going on in Iran right now, is that this would be the perfect time for a military strike against Iran's nuclear facilities. If only we didn't have a gutless President. Heck, the United States doesn't even have to do it. We can just take the shackles off of Israel and let them do what needs to be done (and provide the necessary intelligence and logistical support).

Yes, a strike right now might stop the uprising in its tracks (an external enemy has a way of bringing everyone together). But regardless of who ultimately prevails in this power struggle, it isn't like Iran's nuclear ambitions will change in any way and I doubt its support of Hezbollah will change in any way (or any of the other terror organizations and terror states Iran supports).

Too bad it is all just a dream... our President cannot even muster a speech blasting Iran's leadership and supporting the protesters. Authorizing a military strike (even through an ally) is well beyond the capabilities of his incredibly weak backbone.

That is by far the worse idea I've seen. We don't like the fact the Iranians have nuke ambitions, but it's a point of national pride to them. A US strike would unite the entire country behind the government and against the "great Satan"
That's why the POTUS gets intelligence advice from the CIA, and not from a blog.

940 alegrias  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:19:42pm

re: #938 restitutor orbis

No, that was a generally sincere statement.

Look, I want to see Ajad and gang burn as much as the next guy, I am just urging caution with breaking out the "Hey, freedom has broken out and everything is hunky dory" champagne. Revolutions can get, well, revolution-ey and we have no idea how it will turn out.
As far as Obama goes, he should support the protesters against the current regime, but beyond that, not much more, at least until someone emerges who we can really work with.
If i were Obama, I would be thinking more of N. Korea

* * * *
Relax on North Korea, the USS JOHN MCCAIN is on that watch.

941 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:20:44pm
942 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:21:00pm

re: #937 alegrias

I wonder what Gen. Petraeus is thinking today, about how insurgents can help topple mullahs.

I wonder what our US and Iraqi troops are thinking today.

He's probably thinking, "Please, no war with Iran right now, my plate is full " Let the CIA do it's thing, but be careful.

943 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:21:49pm

re: #939 avanti

And just watch do the Mad Mullahs (the ones with nuclear ambitions) have in mind for those nucs?

Google the 12th Imam........

944 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:24:17pm
945 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:25:08pm

re: #941 Iron Fist

Avanti doesn't worry himself with the fact that the thugs with guns decide the votes. That is OK in his world.

That is the way the Obamanites would run America. The people with the guns decide the votes, and the votes decide who rules.

They may run into a problem here, as the people with the guns aren't the people they want to decide who rules. That sucks for them...

Iron, the POTUS is acting on the best advice the intelligence community can provide, but lets hear your suggestion on what to do. The entire world is waiting for a better solution as to how to react.

946 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:26:36pm

re: #944 Iron Fist

We could end Iran right now. Completely end it. Obama hasn't got the guts, and the Iranians know it. So they can dick with us some. That is the way your boy has it. That is acceptible to your boy.

Your boy. Would he were our man.

Explain end "Iran" to me please ? How does one end a country ?

947 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:26:48pm

re: #938 restitutor orbis


As far as Obama goes, he should support the protesters against the current regime, but beyond that, not much more...

By my ObamaNutsackMeter, he registered a .7 out of 10 when he was questioned by a news person. Now, the official statement is a 1 out of 10.

He should be about a 3 out of 10 or more in supporting the democratic process and speaking against any and all deaths of protesters.

1 = Neville Chamberlain
10 = Churchill

Fair enough? I'm not suggesting nukes or calvary, or spec/black ops. With proper support, we may never have to. We may never have to deal with a nuclear Iran either. It's worth the risk.

948 Enkidu90046  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:27:34pm

re: #939 avanti

That is by far the worse idea I've seen. We don't like the fact the Iranians have nuke ambitions, but it's a point of national pride to them. A US strike would unite the entire country behind the government and against the "great Satan"
That's why the POTUS gets intelligence advice from the CIA, and not from a blog.

Oh, I am well aware that a military strike would have a uniting effect and that the protests would virtually disappear and the people involved in them would rally behind the present leadership of Iran. But I would rather have a united Iran with no nuclear facilities than a divided Iran that will eventually produce a nuclear weapon regardless of whether the present government if overthrown or not unless they are militarily stopped from doing so. In a sense, while I am rooting for the protesters, the nuclear threat posed by Iran in no way depends on the outcome of the internal power struggle.

The clock is ticking and soon Iran will have nuclear weapons. When that happens, it is too late to engage in a military strike and the world becomes a significantly more dangerous place. If and when that happens, we may well look back on this period of time and look at it as a missed opportunity to take out Iran's nuclear facilities.

949 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:27:41pm
950 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:28:27pm
951 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:29:00pm

re: #947 BigPapa

By my ObamaNutsackMeter, he registered a .7 out of 10 when he was questioned by a news person. Now, the official statement is a 1 out of 10.

He should be about a 3 out of 10 or more in supporting the democratic process and speaking against any and all deaths of protesters.

1 = Neville Chamberlain
10 = Churchill

Fair enough? I'm not suggesting nukes or calvary, or spec/black ops. With proper support, we may never have to. We may never have to deal with a nuclear Iran either. It's worth the risk.

Again, lots of comments on how weak his rhetoric is, give me a 8 or 9 out of 10 comment that would pass your muster.

952 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:29:33pm

re: #921 avanti

Do you know who won, and by what margin ? We may be certain there was corruption, but did it change the outcome ? What do we do with that information other then support the right to peaceful protest. I see lots of bitching about the worlds reaction, but very little about how it could be better done.

No, I don't know who won, much less the margin.

I'll give you just a few points, and from memory so bear with me.

1) The turnout surpassed all expectations by a large margin, throwing the expected outcome into a cocked hat.

2) The Ministry of the Interior initially contacted the Mousavi campaign, telling it that Mousavi was winning. Then, suddenly, the results flip-flopped.

3) Tabriz historically votes tribal ethniticity, big time. Mousavi was thereby a favorite son, but in the final announcement, it was said to have gone for Amadinejad by 60-odd percent.

4) In 30 municipalities, the totals of votes "counted" exceeded the numbers of voters registered.

5) Supreme Leader Khamenei violated law by giving his blessing to Amadinejad's victory before the statutory period for examination (3 days) had elapsed.

Yes, I'm compellled to belief that the outcome was changed.

953 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:29:35pm

re: #945 avanti

Iron, the POTUS is acting on the best advice the intelligence community can provide, but lets hear your suggestion on what to do. The entire world is waiting for a better solution as to how to react.

Assumption......

I assume he's POed that the uppity Iranian people mucked up his rapprochement with the Mad Mullahs. That fits better with his Alinskyite background.

954 Wendya  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:30:09pm

re: #629 iceweasel

The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching. We mourn each and every innocent life that is lost. We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.

This is what should have been said from the start.

955 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:31:58pm

re: #949 Iron Fist

That one is easy. Tell Iran that what they are doing is unacceptible. We can do that. All we need is a leader to do it.

What they are doing is unacceptable. And we expect better.

That is all we need to do, but we won't do it.

Is that not what he said:

"We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people," Obama said in a written statement. "

956 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:32:01pm

re: #940 alegrias

* * * *
Relax on North Korea, the USS JOHN MCCAIN is on that watch.

And don't you know that the fact that that particular ship is involved is just putting a real twist in Obama's knickers.

957 VioletTiger  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:32:06pm

re: #920 Racer X

I'm not seeing a downside with Obama meddling in Iran. What? The mullahs hate us more?

The upside is the people of the revolution know they have an ally.


They are already blaming us and will regardless of whether we speak out or not.

Interesting that Obama and the liberals bristle when anyone criticizes Obama's words as 'just words, just speeches'. Now that he's busy voting PRESENT, they are claiming that his words wouldn't matter much. Words either have power or they don't. Sometimes when you are balanced on the edge, all it takes it a small push. An Iran with nukes would destabilize the region and probably the world. Push 'em will we have a chance.

958 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:33:41pm

re: #955 avanti

Is that not what he said:

"We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people," Obama said in a written statement. "

And the Mad Mullahs read see it and say, our actions our justified and dismiss it.

It's milk sop.

959 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:33:42pm
960 Lynn B.  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:34:24pm

re: #924 The Other Les

A work of fiction, I'm afraid.

Indeed. But since so many on the left seem to see Obama as the real life manifestation of that fictitious liberal President, why is it that they don't expect and demand the same moral stand from him that they claimed to so admire on TV? The whole point of that episode, after all, was the agonizing debate over whether the U.S. should "intervene" in "Kuhndu."

961 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:35:42pm
962 restitutor orbis  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:35:54pm

re: #947 BigPapa

By my ObamaNutsackMeter, he registered a .7 out of 10 when he was questioned by a news person. Now, the official statement is a 1 out of 10.

He should be about a 3 out of 10 or more in supporting the democratic process and speaking against any and all deaths of protesters.

1 = Neville Chamberlain
10 = Churchill

Fair enough? I'm not suggesting nukes or calvary, or spec/black ops. With proper support, we may never have to. We may never have to deal with a nuclear Iran either. It's worth the risk.

I can agree with that.....if only because Obama will look like a dope sitting down with people who just got through slaughtering their own people.
But the aftermath needs to be handled with the utmost care. And I don't think any of us can predict what must be done.

963 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:38:06pm
964 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:38:29pm

re: #951 avanti

Again, lots of comments on how weak his rhetoric is, give me a 8 or 9 out of 10 comment that would pass your muster.

It's not time for the 8 out of 10 level comment. This isn't a NorKor thread.

965 [deleted]  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:40:32pm
966 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:41:11pm

re: #962 restitutor orbis

But the aftermath needs to be handled with the utmost care. And I don't think any of us can predict what must be done.

The CIA better be running through all their damned scenarios right now thinking about possible situations and outcomes. That's their jobs, so we are prepared. We can predict what must be done if we spend enough time and effort. Doesn't mean we'll be right or do the perfect thing, but we should prepare anyway.

967 Enkidu90046  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:44:27pm

re: #963 Iron Fist

Excellent! I rarely agree with you, but I think you have really hit it here. Why aren't the Left demanding Obama be the leader he should be? This should be a place the Left and Right come together on. Where we are on the side of RIGHT, regardless of our political afiliation.

Why? Because he is a Jesus-like figure that can do no wrong for far too many Americans. We are going to have to come up with a new moniker for Ronald Reagan because the true "Teflon President" appears to be Obama. I am watching CNN right now and am disgusted at how every talking head they interview has done nothing but either praise Obama or make excuses for his inaction.

I just commented to my girlfriend (a crunchy liberal) that CNN should just cut to the chase and have everyone on their staff get down on their knees and give Obama a "Lewinsky."

968 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:53:41pm

re: #952 pre-Boomer Marine brat

re: #921 avanti

In re: the real election numbers--

Unofficial news - reports leaked results from Interior Ministry:
Eligible voters: 49,322,412
Votes cast: 42,026,078
Spoilt votes: 38,716
Mir Hossein Mousavi: 19,075,623
Mehdi Karoubi: 13,387,104
Mahmoud Ahmadi-nejad (incumbent): 5,698,417
Mohsen Rezaei (conservative candidate): 3,754,218

This was reported back on the 13th; now those numbers are circulating on a flyer in Iran.

969 avanti  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 1:58:18pm

re: #968 iceweasel

re: #921 avanti

In re: the real election numbers--

This was reported back on the 13th; now those numbers are circulating on a flyer in Iran.

Sadly, that was not verified as a real document. If it was, we'd have a real issue.

970 eon  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 2:01:30pm

re: #959 Iron Fist

Indeed, but time has past. What Obama should have said isn't what would work now, I don't believe. He's let enough time pass that it wouldn't have the same effect.

There's a lot he can do. There is probably no one in the world with more available options than Obama.

He just won't take any of them.

Indeed. I think what we're seeing in Washington right now is the beginning of the unraveling of the Obama presidency. As follows;

1. He has shown that, abroad as at home, what he says has nothing to do with what he does. Ultimately, it shows that he really stands for nothing, and believes in nothing, except his own ego. In effect, what he has done, almost immediately after his "transformational" Cairo speech, is say to the Muslim world, "I didn't really mean it."

2. He has also shown a staggering lack of moral stature, by simply refusing to acknowledge the fact that, were it not for his party (the Democrats) and his personal idol (Carter) "meddling" in Iran in the 1970s, this situation probably would not exist today. Of course, if he did, he would also be admitting that his party's policies in that region have been a colossal mistake for the last three decades. Or even acknowledging that they have a fanciful worldview that is not consistent with the "facts on the ground", to use a favorite phrase of progressives. Either one would be politically unpleasant for him (imagine Carter's reaction), but it would at least be honest.

3. He ran as a figure who was going to "transform the world"- and now sees that it is being changed into something other than what he had in mind. He wants to be a "domestic policy" president now, and is coming to regard the rest of the world as a distraction- except when he wants to campaign overseas for the job he already has. (Apparently he hasn't quite figured that one out yet.)

4. He also seems to be suffering from "culture shock". Having accepted the principle of "foreign leaders are sane like me", he cannot accept that some simply aren't. Or that some will do anything to hold onto power, up to and including mass murder if they can pull it off. In his philosophy, "right-thinking" people aren't like that. He cannot accept that Iran is not run by "right-thinking", or even rational, actors.

With this in mind, whatever happens in Iran, President Obama has essentially rendered himself (and the U.S.) irrelevant to what happens in that area as long as he is in office. Our friends won't trust anything he says, and our enemies won't believe he'll react no matter how bizarrely they behave. In short, he has neutered himself.

I expect that from now on, the President will even more closely follow the pattern of his idol, Carter. Expect him to use a phrase something like Carter's "focus like a laser beam" on domestic/economic issues, while seeking to "disengage" from the MidEast and Asia Minor as quickly as he can without actually admitting that he wants to do so.

And when his efforts at both fail to show any useful results, expect an updated version of Carter's "national malaise" speech, saying to the American people, in effect, "I can't possibly be wrong- so it must be all your fault".

/deja vu' all over again, as the saying goes.

cheers

eon

971 LSD  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 2:01:39pm

Iran source: there is a military tank in Azadi Square.

972 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 2:08:25pm

re: #969 avanti

Sadly, that was not verified as a real document. If it was, we'd have a real issue.

I know. There's an article over here about it also, which mentions reasons to be suspicious of it:

In a highly sophisticated society like Iran, forgery is as efficient as anywhere in the West and there are reasons for both distrusting and believing this document. But it divides the final vote between Mr Mousavi and Mr Karroubi in such a way that it would have forced a second run-off vote – scarcely something Mousavi's camp would have wanted.

Could this letter be a fake? Even if Mr Mousavi won so many votes, could the colourless Mr Karroubi have followed only six million votes behind him? And however incredible Mr Ahmadinejad's officially declared 63 per cent of the vote may have been, could he really – as a man who has immense support among the poor of Iran – have picked up only five-and-a-half million votes? And would a letter of such immense importance be signed only "on behalf of the minister"?

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

I don't think we have any way of ever knowing what the real numbers are.

It does seem certain that there was vote tampering; there are eyewitness reports from counting stations of boxes arriving with their seals broken--and of the votes in those boxes all going to Ahmadi.

973 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 2:13:44pm

re: #968 iceweasel

re: #921 avanti

In re: the real election numbers--


This was reported back on the 13th; now those numbers are circulating on a flyer in Iran.


Interesting!
Thanks.

974 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 2:17:45pm

re: #969 avanti

You're not going to reply to my #952?

It's all right. So be it. I am gone.

975 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 2:41:52pm

re: #974 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You're not going to reply to my #952?

It's all right. So be it. I am gone.

Maybe he just missed it.

For the record, I think you gave a comprehensive list of very good reasons in 952 to think the outcome was changed; I had nothing to add to it except the one observation about eyewitness accounts from counting stations of votetampering--but that's a mere drop in the bucket compared to the reasons you just gave for suspecting systemic fraud.

976 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 3:11:45pm

re: #928 Enkidu90046

Authorizing a military strike (even through an ally) is well beyond the capabilities of his incredibly weak backbone.

You think another war is what we need now? This is an incredibly stupid comment.

977 FamHistoryGuy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 3:37:19pm

re: #705 Killgore Trout

They would simply be returning Iranian property to the people of Iran. How is that interfering?

978 FamHistoryGuy  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 3:53:29pm

Chant des Partisans. Perhaps the French do remember.

979 Ziggy Standard  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 4:35:42pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

My guess is that this is similar to stuff we've seen in Iraq over the years: They bomb mosques and shrines to stir up religious/ethnic tensions. There have been a lot of rumors about the government staging fake terror attacks to get the country to rally around them.

Interesting that those who show such proven willingness to employ false flag tactics are also those who are the most zealous propogators of holocaust denialism. They must assume everyone else is as craven as they are.

980 gregb  Mon, Jun 22, 2009 8:08:49am

I didn't get a chance to post this, but the suicide bomber reminds me of that old joke:

A two-seater Cessna crashes into an graveyard. Authorities say it's the worst air disaster the country has ever had. They've recovered 300 bodies with more to be found.


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