Can anyone explain how we're supposed to "save the economy" by mandating medical insurance?

Isn't this what the "Nanny State" is all about?

Can't help, Wendya - in fact, I can't explain much of anything this Administration proposes

re: #3 Daffy Duck

Can't help, Wendya - in fact, I can't explain much of anything this Administration proposes

I can: It's a lefty grab-bag.

I thought they accused the Republicans of spending too much (no argument here). Their response is to spend even more.

Makes no sense.

Hey, I think I had this health plan back when I owned my own business.

re: #1 Wendya

Can anyone explain how we're supposed to "save the economy" by mandating medical insurance?

Leftist fuzzy math applied to macroeconomics.

THe HMOs have been preaching that it's "all about wellness" for years. That means that if you get sick, it's your fault for not having better habits, and they'll dock you for that, or maybe even deny you coverage.

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

Well, yeah.

Next up, the dont get sick plan.
Followed by cheap burials at sea.

You gotta love people that come up with this ideas.

re: #5 Lee Coller

I thought they accused the Republicans of spending too much (no argument here). Their response is to spend even more.

Makes no sense.

They're trying to out-lib the Republicans who were trying to out-lib the previous libs...

Gotta run. BBL.

re: #1 Wendya

I don't get that one either. I'm in favor of health care reform, it's just a bummer that Republicans didn't do anything about it. Now it's the Dems turn.

my body is a temple...I would never abuse it

re: #10 DEZes

Next up, the dont get sick plan.
Followed by cheap burials at sea.

Tsk, tsk, what a waste, remember 'Soylent Green'?
///

re: #12 Daffy Duck

They're trying to out-lib the Republicans who were trying to out-lib the previous libs...

Thats a vicious circle.
Liberal math, spend your way to success.

re: #16 callahan23

Tsk, tsk, what a waste, remember 'Soylent Green'?
///

Its to feed the sea kittens.

Funny thing is, in the UK and other countries with failed nationalized health systems, "don't get sick" is the health plan.

I watched a friend die of cancer in the UK who would have had a chance here. Couldn't get moved up the list for surgery. When his turn came they opened him up and things were too far advanced.

But it was fair.

re: #6 Thanos

Hey, I think I had this health plan back when I owned my own business.

Exactly. I know several people with the "Don't Get Hurt" health care plan, because they're running their own businesses-- or trying to. Not cool.

re: #18 DEZes

Its to feed the sea kittens.

Ahh, got your idea. ;-)

re: #21 callahan23

Ahh, got your idea. ;-)

See, its still green. ;)

re: #17 DEZes

Thats a vicious circle.
Liberal math, spend your way to success.

Is it a circle? Or a death spiral?

re: #14 Killgore Trout

I don't get that one either. I'm in favor of health care reform, it's just a bummer that Republicans didn't do anything about it. Now it's the Dems turn.

maybe that's because republicans don't see it as a federal responsibility...nobody in this country goes without the best health care in the world...start from there

re: #23 Daffy Duck

Is it a circle? Or a death spiral?

A bit of both.
No sarc. tag.

The more "unprivatized" health care gets, the more likely helmets will be mandated for walking and driving, as well as for bicycling (which would be banned outright as too dangerous if it weren't for the idea that bikes will save the planet from cars.)

re: #26 wrenchwench

The more "unprivatized" health care gets, the more likely helmets will be mandated for walking and driving, as well as for bicycling (which would be banned outright as too dangerous if it weren't for the idea that bikes will save the planet from cars.)

You almost gave Charles a heart attack.
///

re: #24 albusteve

maybe that's because republicans don't see it as a federal responsibility..

Probably. Too bad.

re: #14 Killgore Trout

I don't get that one either. I'm in favor of health care reform, it's just a bummer that Republicans didn't do anything about it. Now it's the Dems turn.

Dems already had their shot, so to speak. That would be the shoot down of the evil George Bush effort to institute tort reform.

re: #26 wrenchwench

The more "unprivatized" health care gets, the more likely helmets will be mandated for walking and driving, as well as for bicycling (which would be banned outright as too dangerous if it weren't for the idea that bikes will save the planet from cars.)

So either you loose your job or you increase your business. Which is it gonna be?

There's a lot of cancer in my husband's family.

I've watched Canada, and now that we are heading towards a Canadian system, I am so looking forward to having to raise money privately and fly to another country to get him treatment in a timely manner, should he get the cancer that his grandfather and his uncles got.

re: #5 Lee Coller

No see, it's ok when they do it because they say so. That's the difference.

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Probably. Too bad.

what have the donks offerd since Hillary care?...reform to them means control, the pill guys, insurance, care...the whole enchilada...don't be fooled...so what reforms have have been writtn up since 1993?...you are making it a partisan thing?

re: #31 EmmmieG

There's a lot of cancer in my husband's family.

I've watched Canada, and now that we are heading towards a Canadian system, I am so looking forward to having to raise money privately and fly to another country to get him treatment in a timely manner, should he get the cancer that his grandfather and his uncles got.

The way things are shaping up, you may have to buy a ticket to a free market destination. China for example.

re: #26 wrenchwench

The more "unprivatized" health care gets, the more likely helmets will be mandated for walking and driving, as well as for bicycling (which would be banned outright as too dangerous if it weren't for the idea that bikes will save the planet from cars.)

The more "unprivatized" health care gets, the more I'm afraid that there will be "conditions" applied for treatment - if you don't meet the conditions, no treatment for you.

No treatment (or delayed treatment) for everyone who harms their own health by failing to eat low-fat diet; failing to properly monitor their caloric intake; failing to quit smoking; failing to engage in an appropriate fitness program; etc etc.

re: #20 iceweasel

Exactly. I know several people with the "Don't Get Hurt" health care plan, because they're running their own businesses-- or trying to. Not cool.

And now they'll have the "shared employer responsibility" mandate. That's what pisses me off the most. Businesses that don't offer insurance, generally can't afford it.

This is not about reform, it is about more gov't control over your life.

re: #30 callahan23

So either you loose your job or you increase your business. Which is it gonna be?

Business has been pretty good, but I still have the DGH Health Plan. I'm about to come out of the closet as a bike-path-hater, so business will probably be slowing down soon...

re: #35 reine.de.tout

The more "unprivatized" health care gets, the more I'm afraid that there will be "conditions" applied for treatment - if you don't meet the conditions, no treatment for you.

No treatment (or delayed treatment) for everyone who harms their own health by failing to eat low-fat diet; failing to properly monitor their caloric intake; failing to quit smoking; failing to engage in an appropriate fitness program; etc etc.

The government has been touting a low fat diet for the last three decades. Hasn't worked yet.

re: #33 albusteve

I'm just saying that the Republicans should have tried to bring down healthcare costs instead of leaving it up to free market fundamentalism. Health care costs are a problem and it was left unchecked. Now that the Dems have control they're going to try to do something. Not sure if they'll get it passed though, I haven't really been paying attention.

Obama Leaves Door Open to New Taxes for Health Care

OT: Hal Turner, Internet Radio Host, Arrested For Inciting Violence Against Public Officials...Again

re: #39 Wendya

The government has been touting a low fat diet for the last three decades. Hasn't worked yet.

Maybe they should practice what they preach?

How apropos given today's events!

re: #40 Killgore Trout

I'm just saying that the Republicans should have tried to bring down healthcare costs instead of leaving it up to free market fundamentalism. Health care costs are a problem and it was left unchecked. Now that the Dems have control they're going to try to do something. Not sure if they'll get it passed though, I haven't really been paying attention.

Much of the increase in health care costs can be directly attributed to congressional and state meddling. Mandates cost money.

re: #39 Wendya

The government has been touting a low fat diet for the last three decades. Hasn't worked yet.

I know.
I'm thinking back, years ago, I joined some sort of health "group" that focused on "preventive" care.
I learned very quickly that I could get an appointment almost right away when it was time for my annual exam.
But when I was sick, there was a two-week wait; not because their appointment calendar was full, but because they "rationed" their appointments for illness, and focused on giving "preventive" exam appointments.

re: #43 Daffy Duck

Maybe they should practice what they preach?

It's not "real" money in Washington.

Hi. Error with the video - lizard overload?

re: #46 reine.de.tout

The military does this to a degree, though they hold back a certain amount of "sick" appointments per day. I found the trick to a quick appointment is to have your husband be the 1SG of the Meddac at the post you are at. Works like a charm. ;)

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Actually it was gov't getting involved with health care through Medicare etc. that led to "lowest common denominator" but high priced health care.

Here's what happens when Health is non private

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

re: #41 Thanos

I think that goes without saying. The costs are going to be huge. Even my crappy health insurance is something like $300 a month. I assume I'd have to pay at least that much it taxes to get comparable coverage. Then we have to pay for all the people who aren't insured. That money has to come from somewhere.

re: #40 Killgore Trout

I'm just saying that the Republicans should have tried to bring down healthcare costs instead of leaving it up to free market fundamentalism. Health care costs are a problem and it was left unchecked. Now that the Dems have control they're going to try to do something. Not sure if they'll get it passed though, I haven't really been paying attention.

if they do you will not like the result...health care has always been expensive and it always will...there is no way to reduce costs without reducing services...many people that don't have insurance don't want it...the numbers are misleading and the donks know it...reform is a scam...compare and contrast to reform of the SS problem...fuck liberals

re: #50 Thanos

Actually it was gov't getting involved with health care through Medicare etc. that led to "lowest common denominator" but high priced health care.

Yes, I'd much rather have them prove the system can function by making Medicare work first.

I wonder what would happen if employers were prohibited from offering health insurance.

They started offering it in the 1950s as an effective perk for professionals. Then Unions started demanding it and soon the expectation was there. Full coverage was cheap compared to today, but it also created an opportunity for more exotic treatments to be tried because demand became inelastic.

A return to elasticity would force cost saving.

MSA's were an innovative approach intended to bring some elasticity back, but the program never took off partly because limitations were placed on which employers could use it.

Anyway - What would fix this won't happen. Instead we will get a system where a government agency of some sort is created in order to reform the system. It will be staffed by industry insiders and ultimately it will play the same role as Utility Regulators - it will keep competition out, reward complacency, and inform the public of rate hikes engineered by the lawyers and accountants of the industry that is supposedly being regulated.

re: #52 buzzsawmonkey

No vid shows up for me.

double click the screen

re: #53 albusteve
Also, how many union households will not have to pay taxes on their health care? Obambi plan calls for taxing your employer health care to pay for ther people who don't have insurance, unless you belong to a union.

Oh - BTW - Republicans have tried to bring the cost of health care down.

It is called "tort reform."

re: #36 Wendya

And now they'll have the "shared employer responsibility" mandate. That's what pisses me off the most. Businesses that don't offer insurance, generally can't afford it.

I'm talking partly about people who can't afford to have health insurance for themselves-- even when they're required to offer it to their employees. I've got one friend with a small business in that situation. He essentially was putting all his money back into the business and gambling that he wouldn't get sick or hurt, since he's in his 20's.

Then he did get hurt. It's been bad.

re: #57 pingjockey

Also, how many union households will not have to pay taxes on their health care? Obambi plan calls for taxing your employer health care to pay for ther people who don't have insurance, unless you belong to a union.

it's a monumental ripoff...no question about it...BO is off his rocker, again

re: #53 albusteve

if they do you will not like the result...health care has always been expensive and it always will...there is no way to reduce costs without reducing services...many people that don't have insurance don't want it...the numbers are misleading and the donks know it...reform is a scam...compare and contrast to reform of the SS problem...fuck liberals

I'm going to disagree with part of this. There are ways to create cheaper health care, but those ways involve deregulation, not more regulation.

re: #55 karmic_inquisitor

I buy my own insurance. I'm not sure that would help the system.

re: #58 karmic_inquisitor
That went a long way didn't it?!

"We're from the government. We're here to help."
IRS, SSDI, MEDICARE, MEDICAID
hence:
Power to the Correct People.
(They don't have accountants making medical policy.)

Health insurance is supposed to be, well... insurance. Insurance is something you pay for as Chris Rock said "in case shit" happens that would wipe you out financially. It's not supposed to be used to cover every single incident that occurs to you for your whole life.

They way medical insurance is used now, it would like if you used your car insurance to cover not only all accidents, but also all maintenance and minor repairs. Can you imagine how expensive auto insurance would be if everytime you got an oil change or had the brakes inspected or whatever, you filed an insurance claim. It's completely ridiculous, but this is exactly how most people treat health insurance, and then they wonder why the "cost of health care has skyrocketed" in the past couple of decades.

I'd prefer to have coverage that only kicks in after a medical treatment is more expensive than a $1000 or something. I don't think you should be filing a claim for every little sniffle, fever, sore throat, or minor ache you get. If I have strep throat, I can pay a doctor $50 to treat it. Maybe it will be cheaper since he doesn't have to mess with 10 tons of insurance paperwork from my visit. If I get in a car accident and need half a million dollars worth of surgery and therapy, then the insurance kicks in. Such "high deductable" insurance policies exist, I just do not understand why they are not being used more. I guess it's just leftist fuzzy math striking again.

re: #39 Wendya

The government has been touting a low fat diet for the last three decades. Hasn't worked yet.

If you read Atkins, you can see how a low fat diet can make a person fatter, and cause diabetes.

I see the answer as a combination of:

Health care recipients being back in the loop, cost-wise. Most of us don't even know what our health care costs are, if we have insurance, and don't care. Our costs, as far as we are concerned, are our co-pays and our premiums.

Innovative programs that offer many different types of insurance (or health care solutions). I, personally, think that most people would be better off with "dramatic costs" insurance and then paying the smaller amounts themselves, in return for smaller premiums.

Just my opinion.

My favorite: Obama says that government insurance will not replace private insurance, it will just create competition.

That is astonishingly disingenuous.

I may have to be checking out medicaid, God help me. Have no idea what this cancer treatment is gonna cost. I just know my insurance and my income isn't gonna come close to paying for it. Unless, I'm very, very lucky. My Mother in Law had some pills for her treatment that cost 120$ a pop!

re: #61 Thanos

I'm going to disagree with part of this. There are ways to create cheaper health care, but those ways involve deregulation, not more regulation.

cheaper yes, but not cheap...it's a money intensive industry...I was an RN and RT...I could tell you some horror stories about tech shortages and high wages...there is plenty of fat, but the best care is high tech, money intensive...you don't need to go 12 gruelling years to make money as an MD...that's my point

More leftist logic:

Spend your way to thrift
Disarm your way to strength
Surrender your way to victory

re: #57 pingjockey

I want the language on this. Is that health benefits given through the Union or is merely being a member enough? It makes a huge difference.

re: #55 karmic_inquisitor

I wonder what would happen if employers were prohibited from offering health insurance.

I would dance naked in the street out of sheer joy.

re: #74 Wendya

I would dance naked in the street out of sheer joy.

Links, Pics?

re: #72 ArmyWife
I have no idea. And as fast as they're trying to ram this thing through Congress I'm betting only a few people know for sure.

re: #66 wrenchwench

If you read Atkins, you can see how a low fat diet can make a person fatter, and cause diabetes.

I've been low carb for 8 years now. I've never been in better health.

re: #71 _RememberTonyC

That has an eerie ring to it...Hmmm..

/

re: #69 pingjockey

Look into every, every option. Tell the physician which treatments won't be covered (and the hospital). Work with the drug companies - they WILL help, many don't bother to ask. Its a lot of calls, a lot of pushing. It is saying the right thing. If I can help you, let me know.

re: #75 DEZes

Links, Pics?

I - Just - Knew - It

re: #69 pingjockey

My step dad has medicaid and a heart condition. He has a lot of trouble finding doctors who will treat him.

re: #75 DEZes

Links, Pics?

Hasn't happened yet.

there is no excuse for a chronic shortage of technical people...it's construed by the schools to maintain higher wages...much to high in many cases for the performance required...unions don't help

re: #83 Wendya

Hasn't happened yet.

I wanna be prepared. ;)

re: #79 ArmyWife
You and about 100 other people! I cannot believe the amount of support that has materialized. It is all very humbling. Lizards, my family, friends, folks from work. Simply amazing.

re: #80 callahan23

I - Just - Knew - It

Yup I am a sick puppy.
FREE HEATH CARE FOR ME.

re: #69 pingjockey

I may have to be checking out medicaid, God help me. Have no idea what this cancer treatment is gonna cost. I just know my insurance and my income isn't gonna come close to paying for it. Unless, I'm very, very lucky. My Mother in Law had some pills for her treatment that cost 120$ a pop!

Contact American Cancer Society and find out about groups that will help with the bills. Some only pay $50.00 a month but there are some that will cover 80% after Medicaid. My husbands cancer bill got a 60% deduction. Still alot to pay and they will work with you. Also find out if the oncologist has a social worker. They know all the contacts and keep on them.

re: #83 Wendya

Hasn't happened yet.

time...location...?...appropriate recording device.?...

re: #76 pingjockey

If it's ANY union, let me tell you the companies will promptly change the dynamics of cost sharing contract by contract. 80/20 will soon be 20/80 to offset the moral for those barred from organizing, or smart enough not too.

re: #89 IslandLibertarian

time...location...?...appropriate recording device.?...

Yeah, video.

re: #88 Cathypop
Thanks, see my 86.

Based on what the President told the AMA last week, his plan works like this;

1. The government will "cap" the fees doctors in private practice may charge.

2. However, the government will not "cap" the awards that tort lawyers can sue for in malpractice suits, or give doctors any legal protection from such lawsuits.

3. Nor will the government "cap" what insurance companies can charge private-practice doctors for malpractice insurance. Nor allow them to pass those costs along to patients- see (1) above.

4. However (again) doctors working for the government-run "HMOs" will be immune to lawsuits (they'll be Federal employees).

My estimate is that the President believes that this will force doctors to "join the team"- i.e., work for the Federal "managed care" system.

Funny, that's exactly what the Labour government under Clement Attlee thought when they created Britain's National Health System in 1948.

What they actually got was;

1. The NHS system became a haven for incompetent, semi-competent, and outright fumble-fingered quacks who couldn't make it in private practice, but once they were on the government payroll couldn't be sued or fired no matter how poorly they performed or how badly they screwed up;

2. The private practice in Britain was transformed from the friendly family doctor to the eponymous "Harley Street surgeon" ("as seen on TV", as they used to say on Monty Python's Flying Circus); a well-dressed, well-connected, very rich "specialist" who provided top-quality health care to those who could afford it- plus MPs, who could send the bill to the taxpayers;

3. And most of the really competent doctors pulled up stakes and just plain fracking left the country. Back then, most of them went to Canada. When the Canadian Labourites pulled the same stunt, their equivalent (plus whatever ex-British doctors hadn't retired), came to the U.S.

We see the same thing happening today, in India, Japan, etc. If you want to know "Where are the really good doctors?" from those National Health Care countries- look in your local phone directory under "Doctors-Specialists", in the Yellow Pages. Only the ones who can't cut it in private practice are still working for their countries' government-run systems.

Which is why the entire damn world wants to come here to get any serious medical procedures done, fast, and right.

Obama, of course, has the standard progressive philosophy of; There's nothing wrong with the theory, those foreigners are just too stupid to do it right. I, on the other hand, am brilliant, divinely inspired, and am incapable of error, so I will get it right.

He simply refuses to believe that, like the ether theory of the nature of space and the phlogiston theory of combustion, the "national health care" theory of health care is based on a series of fallacies that inevitably destroy the system- and cost lives in the process.

And then, of course, there's the big question; Once he's wrecked our health-care system... where are we going to go?

/rant mode off.

cheers

eon

re: #91 DEZes

Yeah, video.

IMAX!

re: #76 pingjockey

I have no idea. And as fast as they're trying to ram this thing through Congress I'm betting only a few people know for sure.

Well they are out to fleece us for certain by pulling the wool over our eyes, and ewe haven't been sheared until you see the taxes the lobbies will weave into our lives.

re: #86 pingjockey

You and about 100 other people! I cannot believe the amount of support that has materialized. It is all very humbling. Lizards, my family, friends, folks from work. Simply amazing.

Good people are drawn to good people.
Mostly.

re: #94 IslandLibertarian

IMAX!

Look at the size of those...

re: #62 Killgore Trout

I buy my own insurance. I'm not sure that would help the system.

So do I.

And you and I know the rates are set not with us in mind but with large groups in mind. And most people who are insured are part of a group. And the groups are subsidized by the employers.

So you and I see money leaving our pockets each month well in excess of the amounts that members of groups see.

Were groups no allowed, you and I would see lower premiums because the former group members would have to pay the full price, which would eliminate a great many as buyers or at least get them to buy less coverage. As that consumption behavior takes hold, the insurers would have to work the cost side so that they could out compete their peers trying to deliver more value for the dollar and scoop up some of those "buy down" buyers. Further pressure would be created by the fact that these former group members are no longer a buying herd - they each make discrete choices. So the insurance companies have to work harder to attract each insured, and the best way to do that will be with price.

That is the dynamic you want to unleash.

re: #92 pingjockey

Thanks, see my 86.

Here to help. Gladly went on a rollercoaster ride with my husband for cancer treatment and will share info if needed.

re: #93 eon

I was just going to say that!...seriously, excellent post...it should be laminated and kept around...very well said

re: #93 eon

And then, of course, there's the big question; Once he's wrecked our health-care system... where are we going to go?

Six feet, straight down.

re: #100 Cathypop
More info is always better in cases like this.

re: #93 eon

8 million updings of the heart.

re: #96 DEZes

Good people are drawn to good people.
Mostly.

You stole that from me ...
;-)

re: #105 callahan23

You stole that from me ...
;-)

Mostly. ;)

re: #103 pingjockey

More info is always better in cases like this.

What kind of cancer and areyou going thru it or a family member?

re: #18 DEZes

Its to feed the sea kittens.

'Greenies' for sea kittens! Nom Nom!

re: #99 karmic_inquisitor

Were groups no allowed, you and I would see lower premiums because the former group members would have to pay the full price, which would eliminate a great many as buyers or at least get them to buy less coverage.

Ah, ok. I see what you're getting at. Interesting.

re: #107 Cathypop
It's me and I won't know exactly what it is until tomorrow. We did the biopsy yesterday, and the MRI last thursday.

make no mistake about it...insurance companies are fat cats...they make a TON of money

re: #111 albusteve

It's called "capitalism". Maybe I'm just a purest. What I'd really like to see is a less litigious society - I think you alluded to that earlier.

Why is our twit of a president BEGGING the Iranians to be his friend? WHY?

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

re: #94 IslandLibertarian

IMAX!

Feelies!

re: #101 albusteve

re: #102 Daffy Duck

re: #104 ArmyWife

Thanks, everybody.

Personal note;

In 1998 I lost my mother, age 84, to pancreatic cancer. Her government retirement system-provided "health care" (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) followed their SOP from start to finish- and fumbled the ball at every turn. So you might say I have a pretty fair idea of just what kind of Charlie Fox Obama's plan has the potential to be.

cheers

eon

I see a bleak future where euthanasia is encouraged by the government. instead of paying for expensive treatment that might extend the life of a sick (but mentally alert) 80 year old, the government will find it cheaper to administer a fatal dose of morphine since "the old man is terminal anyway." This is not a farfetched idea when bean counters are in charge of medical decisions.

re: #113 ArmyWife

Why is our twit of a president BEGGING the Iranians to be his friend? WHY?

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

He wants the world to love him, he has already fooled enough dipshits in America. He is moving on.

re: #110 pingjockey

It's me and I won't know exactly what it is until tomorrow. We did the biopsy yesterday, and the MRI last thursday.

every little town from here to there should have an MRI service...why don't they?...this is where the feds should step in, rather than proposing wages for doctors...why the hell is med school so expensive?...universities have alot to answer for...who helps fund your state university?

re: #112 ArmyWife

It's called "capitalism". Maybe I'm just a purest. What I'd really like to see is a less litigious society - I think you alluded to that earlier.

I remember when I was in the Army the medical care was considered by all to be substandard. It was the mid eighties, and the hospitals were crumbling, the treatments were old, the infection rates high and the morale low.

That was government run health care.

re: #110 pingjockey
Who is with you to hold your hand? Wife, husband, children, friends? What you are about to go thru is different for everyone. I would like to give them a heads-up on how to help you thru this and you will make it thru this!

re: #113 ArmyWife

Because he's infatuated with the idea of "if we just sit down and talk with these people, common ground can be found". There is no common ground with terrorists, tyrants, despots, etc...

re: #112 ArmyWife

It's called "capitalism". Maybe I'm just a purest. What I'd really like to see is a less litigious society - I think you alluded to that earlier.

someone did...tort reform is absolutely necessary...where are the donks?

re: #103 pingjockey
Hi ping! Uh, more medical information - especially gleaned from the internet is not always the best thing.
I researched the ass off of my cancer and got more and more confused - if for no other reason than the fact that EVERY FORM OF CANCER IS DIFFERENT and responds better to different treatment modalities.
My form of cancer, for example, doesn't react all that well to Chemo, but better than others with radiation thereapy.
I've had the distinct privilige of having an Oncologist in NYC who, after I left, went into full time cancer research and we've stayed in touch via e-mail and I can ask him questions about anything related to cancer.
He also told me - when he was my oncologist, to always get two oncologists who specialized in your type of cancer, to give you a diagnosis, prognosis and suggested treatment.
And, a QUICK question for you my friend: did you receive my e-mail or has your e-mail addy changed?!

re: #120 Cathypop
My better half has been through it with her mom 11 years ago. my aunt just got through it. I have a huge support staff!

re: #121 pingjockey

Because he's infatuated with the idea of "if we just sit down and talk with these people, common ground can be found". There is no common ground with terrorists, tyrants, despots, etc...

re: #121 pingjockey

Because he's infatuated with the idea of "if we just sit down and talk with these people, common ground can be found". There is no common ground with terrorists, tyrants, despots, etc...

Sorry ping, there is common ground...

The ground we bury them in...

;-)

re: #116 _RememberTonyC

I see a bleak future where euthanasia is encouraged by the government. instead of paying for expensive treatment that might extend the life of a sick (but mentally alert) 80 year old, the government will find it cheaper to administer a fatal dose of morphine since "the old man is terminal anyway." This is not a farfetched idea when bean counters are in charge of medical decisions.

Thats not how it will unfold, they will just refuse treatment.
Its the cheapest route.

Didn't Hillary appoint herself Health Queen or something back when her husband was president? How did that work out?

re: #123 realwest
I have been remiss in checking my e-mail...sorry!
Not using internet. Have my wife, aunt, etc..personal experience.

re: #119 karmic_inquisitor

It's better now, but far from perfect. I especially feel bad for those who don't have a spouse in the medical field - it makes my life much easier. I'd like to point out it is run by a private company now. Hmmm. That said, the Army medical staff complains about the contractors and civilians because they don't fall in line as they should. Its very frustrating for them!

re: #125 jcm
I'm all for that!

re: #127 Racer X

Didn't Hillary appoint herself Health Queen or something back when her husband was president? How did that work out?

it read like a high schooll class project...laughable with regard to who pays for it...nothing changes

re: #122 albusteve

braying about how the Republicans should not say they stand for family values what with errant Governors running around with Argentinian floozies. We should be more like the Democrats and not give a crap about morality.

Bwaney Fwank is gonna be on O'Reilly again. Another shouting match?

re: #124 pingjockey

That is so good to hear. As long as you remember that there are people that WANT to help you. That was my hardest thing. Felt like no one understood. And I was so wrong.

re: #113 ArmyWife
Hi ArmyWife! I put it in the spinoff links but we're not only restoring dipolmatic relations/ambassadorships with Syria but also with Venezuela.
Hugo the Thugo said, among other things,

Chavez often says he respects Obama. The Venezuelan joked earlier this month that Obama was more left-wing than he was for effectively nationalizing General Motors -- a reference to the large stake the U.S. government now owns as part of auto giant's bankruptcy.

What is this "joke?"

re: #125 jcm

Sorry ping, there is common ground...

The ground we bury them in...

;-)

...or the ground between the wall you're back is up against and their firing squad.

/you snooze, you loose...WAKE UP AMERICA!

re: #127 Racer X

Didn't Hillary appoint herself Health Queen or something back when her husband was president? How did that work out?

I think they had a Republican congress to deal with back then.

re: #126 DEZes

Thats not how it will unfold, they will just refuse treatment.
Its the cheapest route.

bleak, indeed :(

re: #127 Racer X

If she had called herself Health Czar it woulda worked.

re: #128 pingjockey
No problem my friend - have your wife, aunt etc had the same cancer as do you?

Here are the conditions under which I would agree to government-run health care:

All elected officials and their immediate families MUST use the regular government-run health care. No moving to the front of the line. No paying for special private care. Same hospitals as everyone else.

Going private or accepting special attention would result in losing your position and being ineligible to run for election for the next ten years.

I say this knowing that congress would NEVER pass a bill with this in it.

re: #111 albusteve

make no mistake about it...insurance companies are fat cats...they make a TON of money

Wait - it's NOT those greedy doctors who are rolling in the dough?

re: #110 pingjockey

It's me and I won't know exactly what it is until tomorrow. We did the biopsy yesterday, and the MRI last thursday.

Good luck, my brother!

re: #140 realwest
Nope. My wifes mom had ovarian that spread. Don't know about my aunt. I meant the whole 'you have cancer' thing. I don't know exactly what I have yet. Supposed to find out tomorrow.

re: #113 ArmyWife

Why is our twit of a president BEGGING the Iranians to be his friend? WHY?

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

They don't like Israel. He doesn't like Israel.

They don't like the United States. He's not crazy about us, either.

And if you remonstrate with him that he's playing footsie with our enemies, and sticking it to our friends, he'll just look at you in that Ben Stiller/Zoolander/ "Blue Steel" way of his, and say.

Surely, by now you understand that you have your friends, and I have mine, and that your friends are not the same as mine- and that I don't approve of yours.

/It's easy to figure out, once you "break the code".

cheers

eon

re: #132 ArmyWife

braying about how the Republicans should not say they stand for family values what with errant Governors running around with Argentinian floozies. We should be more like the Democrats and not give a crap about morality.

I have my own and for years have been disgusted with the GOP...you cannot separate the politics out of these issues...our leadership sucks and I hate the feds

re: #129 ArmyWife

It's better now, but far from perfect. I especially feel bad for those who don't have a spouse in the medical field - it makes my life much easier. I'd like to point out it is run by a private company now. Hmmm. That said, the Army medical staff complains about the contractors and civilians because they don't fall in line as they should. Its very frustrating for them!

Interesting that they brought in private contractors. A real vote of confidence in publicly administered health care.

As an aside - IIRC, when the left was screaming about Iraq a year ago they would publish reports about the US hiring "mercenaries". In many cases, it turned out that their "mercenaries" were contractors hired to do jobs that the Army did in WW2. So truck drivers, latrine diggers, cooks and what not were counted as "mercenaries". No I can assume that hospital staff were also part of that count.

re: #135 realwest

I've decided he is NOT smart, he is rather dumb and not all that articulate. The Emperor isn't wearing clothes and it is a very ugly site.

I am against the idea, but I think that socialized medicine is probably inevitable. This is probably the way to go in the future.

re: #137 Killgore Trout

I think they had a Republican congress to deal with back then.

Those Republican BASTARDS!

re: #110 pingjockey
Sending positive thoughts your way for tomorrow. I'll wear my lucky rock tomorrow and think about you.
Good night Lizards

re: #151 Cathypop
Good night and thanks!

re: #146 albusteve

I agree - the answer isn't lowering our standards so these slugs can remain in office. My hand is still up to take over the RNC!

'This is a massacre!'
Eyewitness...

I don't know if it's been posted yet.

re: #149 Rolltideroll

because it works so well in Canada?

re: #149 Rolltideroll

I am against the idea, but I think that socialized medicine is probably inevitable. This is probably the way to go in the future.

I am against the idea of inevitability.

re: #144 pingjockey
Well tomorrow I'm gonna be getting the first part of a root-canal and maybe (?) out of the loop some - I know you're gonna be busy and all, but if you would like to drop me a line I'd appreciate it.
And I've added you to The LGF Prayer List and hope all of the prayers that are sent up for you - for me starting yesterday and continuing - but which will come your way - and best wishes for all you atheists and agnostics out there! - will give you strength my friend.

re: #138 _RememberTonyC

bleak, indeed :(

Yes, thats how its done in government ran health care, fourty pounds of paper work, and all the compassion of a bureaucrat.
And all at 2 or 3 times the cost to tax payers.

re: #146 albusteve
It is impossible to expect men in positions of power to be morally pure. The numbwer of leaders who were faithful to one person really pales in comparison to the ones who were not.

re: #157 realwest
Thanks so much. I hate root canals. Had two done in boot camp!

re: #137 Killgore Trout

I think they had a Republican congress to deal with back then.

why do dems resist tort reform?...why do dems resist partial privatization of SS?...why do dems resist regulation Fanny and Freddie?...wtf? Killgore

re: #137 Killgore Trout

I think they had a Republican congress to deal with back then.

Not at that time. It was the beginning of Bubbas first term when they tried to do the healthcare takeover. Democrat congress until 1994.

re: #144 pingjockey

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. All the best wishes and my thoughts are with you.
(pingjockey)

re: #142 Racer X

Wait - it's NOT those greedy doctors who are rolling in the dough?

after 15 yrs of practice they make big money...my son will have nearly 250k in loans for dental school...eight long years...there is a probleem here

re: #163 callahan23
Thank you very much.

re: #154 jcm Some are calling it Iran's Tien an Mien Square.
God bless and guard the Iranian people.

I am a little young to remember that, how do the Clinton's get credit for being political masterminds and yet lose a health care battle with a friendly legislature?
re: #162 Truck Monkey

It is the lounge then --->

re: #160 pingjockey

Thanks so much. I hate root canals. Had two done in boot camp!

LOL! I've had 5 since I moved down here; four were done improperly and resulted in extractions - they helped distract me from the big problem though!
Seriously wish you the best ping!

re: #162 Truck Monkey

Not at that time. It was the beginning of Bubbas first term when they tried to do the healthcare takeover. Democrat congress until 1994.

IIRC Hilary's healthcare plan and the midnight basketball crime bill were what elected the 1994 Republican Congress.

re: #167 Rolltideroll

I am a little young to remember that, how do the Clinton's get credit for being political masterminds and yet lose a health care battle with a friendly legislature?

Hillary Clinton is a lunatic...she ran amuk

re: #160 pingjockey

Thanks so much. I hate root canals. Had two done in boot camp!

My last one I got good drugs and watched Pirates of the Caribbean.

Well y'all I've gotta go now, hope you all have a great evening and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

re: #161 albusteve

why do dems resist tort reform?...why do dems resist partial privatization of SS?...why do dems resist regulation Fanny and Freddie?...wtf? Killgore

I'll answer that one.

It's because Republicans want these things. Period.

re: #167 Rolltideroll

I am a little young to remember that, how do the Clinton's get credit for being political masterminds and yet lose a health care battle with a friendly legislature?

Carville and Begala are masters of spin.
You do know that Bill Clinton singlehandedly drove welfare reform through the evil Republican Congress?
///

Moving on up...

re: #167 Rolltideroll

I am a little young to remember that, how do the Clinton's get credit for being political masterminds and yet lose a health care battle with a friendly legislature?

The same way that The Teleprompter Jesus is going to lose. The American people simply do NOT want nationalized health care as I believe that the majority knows it would be a disaster.

re: #160 pingjockey

re: #169 realwest

I'm lucky. At age 51, I have all my own teeth, have never had a cavity, root canal, etc., and never had to have wisdom teeth pulled because I never had any to begin with.

And I want you two to know, that I'm thinking of you. God keep.

cheers

eon

re: #175 Jim in Virginia
Ha ha, You owe me for the beer I spilt... I do remember hearing about a group of people who said Clinton was scum for unfairly putting people off the welfare rolls.

You could get vast improvements in the health care system with a few important reforms:

1. Shrink the tax deduction for health plans to a maximum $5,000 per person per year, and spread it around to include self-employed people as eligible for the deduction, not just employers. Right now, large employers often buy "gold-plated" health plans for their union members, paying for tummy tucks, plastic surgery, and viagra at the expense of taxpayers.

2. Improve the information available to consumers for evaluating how good doctors, hospitals, and treatments are, and for comparing prices. Right now, that information doesn't exist.

3. Force doctors, hospitals, and insurers to compete on quality and price by eliminating price-fixing and collusive behavior in the industry.

At this point, I'm just hoping I go the way either of my parents did -- dad by a massive unanticipated heart attack, and mom in her sleep. I'm on SS, have had both cancer and a stroke, so under Obamacare, I'm likely to be one of those denied treatment if anything else happens.

As are several other Lizards, of course. :(

re: #156 wrenchwench

I am against the idea of inevitability.

The only inevitable things are death and taxes.

If you are a Democrat nominated to an Obama administration post, only death is inevitable.

re: #66 wrenchwench

If you read Atkins, you can see how a low fat diet can make a person fatter, and cause diabetes.

I always thought Atkins was low-cabohydrate, not low-fat?

re: #6 Thanos

wow, I own my own business and your right this is my plan too.

unfortunately everyone who thinks its gonna be better when the government takes over better get used to this plan, but government run.

chemo drugs are expensive. you will have to be vetted by acorn to see if you deserve them. and get on the one year waiting list, hopefully your cancer can wait that long.

re: #182 ShanghaiEd

I always thought Atkins was low-cabohydrate, not low-fat?

Sorry, wrenchwrench, I mis-read your note. I see what you mean, now.

re: #31 EmmmieG

There's a lot of cancer in my husband's family.

I've watched Canada, and now that we are heading towards a Canadian system, I am so looking forward to having to raise money privately and fly to another country to get him treatment in a timely manner, should he get the cancer that his grandfather and his uncles got.

The Canadian argument is a straw man. There are plenty of moderately successful universal and hybrid health care systems around the world that the US can learn from and cherry pick the best ideas.

My mom was diagnosed with cancer two years ago and received and still receives top notch oncology care under our universal coverage system. Here we have a hybrid system - a basic universal insurance plan that people pay into via income tax (no pre-existing illness barriers or ties to employers), and optional private supplemental insurance plans that are bought by whomever wants them.

Accordingly, she was able to pick a great surgeon and private hospital for the initial surgery via the private supplemental insurance, and then pick a reputable public hospital for ongoing onlcological care under the universal health plan. The universal plan includes chemo medications, doctors visits and now even expensive biological treatments (i.e. Herceptin).

Thankfully my parents are not broke after this health crisis. Yes, the infrastructure here is stressed and there are problems, but they find ways to give all cancer patients care without bankrupting people.

By the way, we used to live in America (my parents having immigrated) for many years, but we had to leave after my dad lost his corporate job at age 50, couldn't find another one because his age, got chronically ill from his bosses driving him nuts, and on top of all that - we were left without insurance.

I said it and I'll say it again - tying health coverage to employment status and pre-existing conditions is a double whammy, immoral, and downright stupid. Stop looking at Canada's system, and start looking at Taiwan, Switzerland, and Israel. Even Nixon the Republican wanted to pass a universal plan.

Yeah, I get it. Life is too dangerous and risky. We can't handle the responsibility for our own health care. We need a huge, all-powerful government to take over the health care insurance industry now so we don't have to live in fear of our own lives.

re: #46 reine.de.tout

Personally I think the costs have risen so much due to "preventive care" I have been scheduled for more testing than I have time for even though I have none of these problems. I used to go for an annual physical and have a pap smear. NOw you need to spend another week having tests. Then the HMO sends these colorful magazines to your home with health tips. My husband is diabetic and he gets a special monthly magazine for that from the HMO. Is this really money well spent?

Email addresses for Congress. I've cleaned them up as best as I can, though some may bounce. Tell Congress they're done destroying this country, and send these to your family and friends.
===
ca44@legislators.com
diaz-balart@att.worldnet.com
epomeroy@house.gov
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gresham@barrettforcongress.com
info@murphy06.com
jesse@jackson.house.gov
john@salazar2004.com
lantos4congress@lantos.org
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